# Could the 'Dempsey Roll' work?



## MattofSilat (Jun 25, 2014)

I do Japanese Jiu Jitsu at the moment, and I am thinking about starting Boxing. Well, I'm definitely doing boxing, correction. I'll start it in a fair while, I have literally done one lesson of Jiu Jitsu so maybe that's unfair, but I just feel that I want to do it right now. Maybe I'll change my mind, but let's assume I won't.

One of my main 'inspirations' is the anime series, 'Hajime no Ippo'. It's about a timid boy who's always bullied, then starts doing boxing, works incredibly hard and progresses. Obviously sounds very cliché, but he faces many challenges along the way, it's a very bumpy road, even if he hasn't reached the top just yet.

His signature move is called the 'Dempsey Roll'. I've heard it was a real move used by Jack Dempsey, but I think it was in different style.
Here's how it works in the anime. It starts as typical bob-and-weave. You then start to twist the waist as you weave and bob your head faster and faster. From this point, the technique is 2-in-1. Try to weave further out each team, so you go into the opponent's blind spot on both sides at the end of this 'figure-8' that you are bobbing-and-weaving in. For the aforementioned reason, it is a close range technique. After you think you have done this for long enough, built up enough momentum, you use all that momentum to slam in punches (mainly hooks, it's the easiest punch to use in that context) from both sides. Using all this momentum, the punches are incredibly powerful and fast. Here's the kicker. You continue weaving into their blind spot every time that you go to the outside, then slam in punches from there. This makes any attempt to counter like reaching out to grab a live bomb. You know it's coming, but you can't see it, and you know how dangerous punches of this speed and power are. Any attempt to counter would probably lead to a KO from a powerful puncher.

The disadvantages are: if the opponent steps back, the blind spot technique will not work, and counters are so much easier. Another is that this technique is close range, and you cannot really move with this original version of the technique (however, if you take away the bobbing-and-weaving in favour of movement, the punches will be much slower and less powerful, but they are much harder to counter. Finally, the main disadvantage. A powerful counter results in:

All of this momentum, your force, your weight, the opponents force and the opponent's fist (and possibly the opponents weight) into your face. Needless to say, there's almost guaranteed KO and a serious chance of higher injuries, such as Brain Damage. It's extremely hard to counter, but you get the picture.

Tell me your thoughts on this technique!


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## Buka (Jun 25, 2014)

Gonna' get you killed. Best to focus your first year of boxing with basics. Just keep the idea in your back pocket for a while.

It's also pretty exclusive to boxing. Repeated weaving against a good Martial Artist is dangerous.


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## MattofSilat (Jun 25, 2014)

No, Buka, you got the wrong idea.

It was a theoretical question, not a literal one.

That's why I used 'could'. I can see the misunderstanding, but I'm talking theoretically, not literally.


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## Tony Dismukes (Jun 25, 2014)

It's a valid technique, although obviously the anime version is much more stylized than reality. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3BTycNuY44#t=194

Buka is right that you should probably stick to fundamentals in the beginning rather than worrying too much about specialized techniques like this.


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## Tony Dismukes (Jun 25, 2014)

MattofSilat said:


> No, Buka, you got the wrong idea.
> 
> It was a theoretical question, not a literal one.
> 
> That's why I used 'could'. I can see the misunderstanding, but I'm talking theoretically, not literally.



Well, the real technique was used literally and effectively by both Dempsey and Tyson.

The anime version of anything is not going to work because the laws of physics and anatomy are different in anime-land.


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## drop bear (Jun 25, 2014)

This is the anime I assume?

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=P5sdJSPL1Vs

And yes the method works. As far as I can tell. If you mean duck and weave and then throwing a shot back. Without the hardoken stuff.

Just remember the other guy can duck and roll as well. So if you threw a few predictable shots in a row they are going to pick up on it.


Mike Tyson.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YHM3hH4Rrsw


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## Buka (Jun 25, 2014)

MattofSilat said:


> No, Buka, you got the wrong idea.
> 
> It was a theoretical question, not a literal one.
> 
> That's why I used 'could'. I can see the misunderstanding, but I'm talking theoretically, not literally.



Gotcha'. My error.


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## Reedone816 (Jun 29, 2014)

Didn't ippo abandoned the technique because of its predictability? 
Agree with tyson, his golden era hook really good, and just realise it indeed look alike with jd roll with his bob and weave...
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