# go kan ryu



## lucifersdad (Apr 23, 2003)

some thing worries me!

lately my students have come to me telling me about a "style" called go kan ryu.
this organisation gets members by knocking on doors and getting people to join by telling them all other clubs in the association are not legitimate etc.
this worries me as the national govening body for all martial arts in the uk is the EKGB (english karate govening body) or one of there sub associations, have never heard of this association(?)

and another thing, since when did you learn unsu for your 3rd/4th grading? as this is what these guys are teaching.
can anyone shed any light or opinions on this type of organisation,
thank you:asian:


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## kenmpoka (Apr 23, 2003)

> _Originally posted by lucifersdad _
> *some thing worries me!
> 
> lately my students have come to me telling me about a "style" called go kan ryu.
> ...


Well I don't know about Gokanryu, but as far as the Unsu goes, in my opinion, it is better to learn this kata when you're younger and more agile. Nidan or perhaps Sandan. Any later you're either too tall or too heavy to land the arial 360 crescent and a rear thrust kick. That is why you rarely see this kick performed completely. Usually the rear thrust is omited since the practitioner can't get enough height off the ground and lands prematurely.

:asian:


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## RyuShiKan (Apr 24, 2003)

Gokan means rape in Japanese. 
I met one of their 3 dan students from Australia and they were really bad.
They do versions of shotokan kata of the likes I have never seen before. (Thats my PC way of saying they pulled it out of their backside)


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## Mike Clarke (Apr 24, 2003)

Regarding 'Go Kan Ryu'.

It was started in Australia by a guy called Sullivan. He trained up to 'Shodan-ho' [they give you the belt but you're not really a shodan ?????] with Goju-kai and then he moved on to Kei Shin Kan karate [very similar to Shotokan].

Kei Shin Kan karate was formed by the late Takazawa Masanoa who was a student of Toyama Kanken. Toyama had studied with Higaonna Kanryo sensei a little, but was mostly associated with Kentsu Yabu sensei and through him to Anko Itosu sensei.

Getting back to Sullivan. The guy is a rip off merchent of the first order and the karate he teaches is worse than rubbish. He has made himself wealthy on the stupidity and greed of idiots who think you can 'buy' karate. The tactics of knocking on doors and signing people up is their hallmark. After six weeks they try to get you to open up a club of your own and continue with the scam.

He meant Go Kan Ryu to be a mix of Go = from Goju- ryu and Kan = from Shotokan, but he got the kanji wrong and  [as pointed out by Ryu Shin Kan] used a kanji for 'rape' by mistake. Though, when one sees the way he fleeces money from people, maybe rape isn't too far from what he's doing.

Next time one of them knocks on your door, kick em in the bollocks!

Mike.


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## gravity (Apr 24, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Mike Clarke _
> *Regarding 'Go Kan Ryu'.
> Next time one of them knocks on your door, kick em in the bollocks!
> 
> Mike. *



:rofl: thats a good one!

Being in Australia I actually had one of these guys knock on my door. My brother (a Wing CHun practitioner) answered it and after 'discussion' politely told the guy he was not interested.

One of my friends is a Goju Ryu black belt and he only has nasty things to say about these guys. If I remember correctly he said Go Kan Ryu ripped of the Goju Ryu patch (fist) and turned it the other way. My friend's instructor also thinks very little of them. 

I do know that they compete heavily in point competition. Personally I think they emphase the tag aspect too much... I don't know much about Karate but a game of tag isn't martial arts to me. 

Hope I didn't offend anyone, I'm just the messenger


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## lucifersdad (Apr 24, 2003)

thanks for the info guys,
since i stared the thread ive spoken to my sensei about them, and alegadly (sp?) they tried sueing the english karate govening body becouse the E.K.G.B. said in a statement " the gokanryu black belt uniform consists of a stetson and spurs".
interprite that how you will, but any way they lost the case 

on the note of unsu, yes a agree it is a kata for the more able martial artist but to teach it to yellow belts? i think you'll agree no begginer can understand the intracasies of a kata such as unsu, can they?


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## D.Cobb (Apr 24, 2003)

Also, from what I have heard, Naihanchi is their black belt kata.
It is Australia's version of the McDojo.

--Dave

:asian:


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## moromoro (Apr 25, 2003)

isnt sullivan a 7th dan now 

his students grade him


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## Mike Clarke (Apr 25, 2003)

Gravity,
I spent ten years living in Perth/Fremantle and know the Goju community in W.A. quite well as I also train in that style.
Sullivan did indeed rip-off the Goju-kai fist [He did some training with Tino Sabrano (?) before 'founding' his own style.
I've had their regional instructor in my dojo and it was pittyfull.
Unadultrated crap!!!!!!!
I stand by my advice to all who meet them, Kick em in the bollocks!

Moromoro,
Can't say what Mr. John Sullivan is these days? I guess it depends on what he wants to be? I know what I see him as, but due to the nature of this forum and the fact there are some children who might be reading this, I'll keep those thoughts to myself.

Dave,
Your giving the Mc dojo's a bad name mate 

Mike.


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## moromoro (Apr 25, 2003)

heve you seen sullivan in action????????/


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## lucifersdad (Apr 25, 2003)

> _Originally posted by gravity _
> [
> 
> I do know that they compete heavily in point competition.




points competitions?
there are lots of these types of clubs around this area and i do take my students to points competitions, for many reasons i wont go into, and ive never seen them at 1!
maybe what you guys call points is differant to what we do(?) but anyway, im learning more and more about these guys, i heard 2day about a guy that got his 2nd dan after 3 months! it has taken me 10 years!! and this guy is still veiwed as the same level of competance as me, does anyone else find this sought of grade recognition offensive?
and before everyone has a go at me, i know grade isnt everything, but still!


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## Mike Clarke (Apr 25, 2003)

moromoro,
Has ANYONE seen Sullivan in action? That's the question you should be asking.
I've seen at least a dozen of his so called students [all yudansha] and none would get past their first test in any good karate dojo.
A teacher is reflected in their students and vice-versa, so enough said on that point I think.

Mike.

"The bollocks boy, I said go for the bollocks."
[Foghorn Legorn, master of the Golden Rooster style]


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## D.Cobb (Apr 25, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Mike Clarke _
> *
> "The bollocks boy, I said go for the bollocks."
> [Foghorn Legorn, master of the Golden Rooster style] *



You know, I say that boy, that Sullivan boy is about as sharp as a bowling ball.....


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## moromoro (Apr 25, 2003)

hahahaha


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## gravity (Apr 26, 2003)

> _Originally posted by lucifersdad _
> *maybe what you guys call points is differant to what we do(?) everything, but still! *



I think their students do pretty well at these competitions, http://nationalallstyles.com.au/
I'm not too sure about the rules, don't follow the sports side much (just a preference).
Also you might want to check out http://www.sportzblitz.net/blitz-martial-arts/top-stories/topstories_robsullivan2.asp Its an article about the Head of the style. I must admit I didn't actually read the article(not really interested) 

Have a good one


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## moromoro (Apr 26, 2003)

yes the cover of the magazine says gokan ryu 5000 students cant be wrong!!!!!

or something of that nature


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## lucifersdad (Apr 26, 2003)

thanks guys keep it coming this stuff is cracking me up!!!!


:rofl:


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## moromoro (Apr 26, 2003)

oh

i made a mistake i have the magazine on me now

it says

ROBERT SULLIVAN:

GO KAN RYU'S 
FOUNDING FATHER

30,000 STUDENTS CANT BE WRONG


YEAH THATS RIGHT 30,000 STUDENTS

feel sorry for them really


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## ShihanDai (Oct 28, 2006)

Grandmaster M. Takazawa is still alive and well, although getting very old. He lives in Nagano and still teaches. 

This week a fellow training student of his during the Toyama days (Eizo Onishi of Koei-Kan) will be here for a training visit. The students of both still train together when time permits.

Sullivan did what most are doing now... they take a few lessons, dojo jump for a little training here then a little at another dojo, inflate their stories, then they start their own "system" and become instant Grandmaster at age 24! Many in the US and Europe are doing just that. The unsuspecting student doesn't know the difference and believe what they are learning is effective and real. 

Look at the persons lineage and time in grade. Most 9th/10th degrees are way over 60. Like fine wine, karate must age within to be truely good.

http://www.keishinkan-karate.com
Rod Murray


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## ShihanDai (Oct 28, 2006)

If 10,000 and they still learned wrong...it's still wrong. Numbers don't make it right. Many people are gullible and will believe much. Let the buyer beware!


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## twendkata71 (Oct 29, 2006)

*The founder of this Gokan ryu only claims a 7th dan in karate do. I have never seen any of these stylist in the US so I cannot say weither or not if they are any good. *


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## babygirl (Oct 8, 2007)

Mike Clarke said:


> Regarding 'Go Kan Ryu'.
> 
> It was started in Australia by a guy called Sullivan. He trained up to 'Shodan-ho' [they give you the belt but you're not really a shodan ?????] with Goju-kai and then he moved on to Kei Shin Kan karate [very similar to Shotokan].
> 
> ...


I have been with gkr for 6yrs now and they havent asked me to open my own club yet so i dont know where you got that idea from. I am a 3rd kyu,yes they knock on doors I done it for a while, but you also get some good training aswell.Our manager is a good instructor.so where ever you get your information from tell them to get their facts right before they put it on here.


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## chinto (Oct 8, 2007)

lucifersdad said:


> some thing worries me!
> 
> lately my students have come to me telling me about a "style" called go kan ryu.
> this organisation gets members by knocking on doors and getting people to join by telling them all other clubs in the association are not legitimate etc.
> ...


 
Never heard of it? is it a japanese style perhaps? it is not as far as I know an Okinawan style..... as to its origens or any thing else..no clue as I have never heard of it!


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## spectator (Oct 10, 2007)

Interesting subject people, what a pity you guys spoil it by writing rubbish, its plainly obvious you know nothing of this style, which is a shame because i thought id joined a decent forum.

Ive looked into this club, and although its definatley not the best out there, there is far worse, that said some of its practices are not something i agree with, but its far from crap or rubbish that has been spouted, it is what it is, first and foremost a buisness.

If your going to rubbish something at least get your facts right, eh.


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## ashyworth (Oct 27, 2007)

you guys have it totally wrong Go-Kan-Ryu maybe a business but its not as rubbish as you make it out to be and they don't teach unsu at such a low level not until your in the dan grades as for telling students to open a new club...thats bollocks in some areas the karate taught isn't as good as other places but i assure you that overall the karate taught is not crap, if it was crap why do we do so well at the NAS? GKR always do well everytime as for people asking if they seen him in action...i'll give you a link to a video of him sparring at the last GKR world cup
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&VideoID=11217106
its sad to see how so many people believe the crap they hear...


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## tshadowchaser (Oct 27, 2007)

OK folks I know absolutly nothing about this style/sytem so how about someone init telling me a lot more about it


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## ashyworth (Oct 27, 2007)

tshadowchaser said:


> OK folks I know absolutly nothing about this style/sytem so how about someone init telling me a lot more about it


 
as you wish...

it all depends on what area you are in as the standard of karate is better in some than in others due to the fact that its always expanding and more dojos are being set up. before you grade you have to do a minimum number of classes and a minimum amount of time for example I'm a red belt and have to do at least 50 classes and have 6 months training as a red belt before being looked at for grading generally the minimum amount of time someone can grade to black is around 4 years and that shodan-ho which is a provisional black belt you have to stay that grade a minimum of 1 year before getting shodan, a class itself will consist of a basic warm up and stretch maybe going through all the basics and a little bit of kata which is a mixture of shotokan kata and goju kata, after that maybe a little bit of kumite drills and free sparring, occasionally we will do self defence jus basic grabs and some knife defence. a class stucture will change depending on the sensei at class the other night we had a class purely for kata, went through all the kata up to black belt then looked at the bunkai in detail, people will most likely complain about the senseis as not all of them are black belts...which is one of the things I myself disagree with but isn't such a big deal as you can still get a good night training, if a kyu grade wants to become a sensei then they have to go on a course which lasts about 6 months and they get intense training from the regional manager where they learn how to teach all the basics and advanced techniques and how to run a class after becoming a sensei they will still have to attend senior training at least once a week with the regional instructor there are classes taught by proper blacks belts though on thursdays I train in a class with 4 black belts 3 of them being a sensei...hope this helps you...


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## ashyworth (Oct 27, 2007)

also watch this...


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## ThomoAZ (Nov 6, 2007)

Hi all,
Most of you guys are being really moronic over such a tiny issue. Go to www.gkrkarate.com and do some research. The GKR thing isn't that big a problem, unless we let it become one. I heard from a guy on martial arts planet that sullivan is a Sichidan and he's a really good fighter. Certain GKR Dojos in Australia are fairly good schools, but most of them are crap. People need to discover the facts for themselves. They do block the Grading Kata (red belt MUST do Bassai Dai ect) but thats about it. The thing of them giving orange belts black and white teaching belts is not on. GKR in Europe specially in the UK is just stuffed up, and almost as bad in America.


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## stone_dragone (Nov 7, 2007)

Personally I am very weary of any organization that travels from door to door and recruits/sells things.  

This goes for religions, vacuum sales and (especially) martial arts.

Just my .02 on the side.


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## Cirdan (Nov 7, 2007)

stone_dragone said:


> Personally I am very weary of any organization that travels from door to door and recruits/sells things.
> 
> This goes for religions, vacuum sales and (especially) martial arts.


 
Yeah, if you ever buy something you end up with something that looks nice but under the surface is pure crap and in the end you waste a lot of time and loose money.

Where can i get one of those robotic arms with boxing gloves that punch out of the wall when a salesman rings the doorbell?


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## Tez3 (Nov 7, 2007)

Cirdan said:


> Yeah, if you ever buy something you end up with something that looks nice but under the surface is pure crap and in the end you waste a lot of time and loose money.
> 
> Where can i get one of those robotic arms with boxing gloves that punch out of the wall when a salesman rings the doorbell?


 
I have a big German Shepherd dog instead lol! 
Babygirl, where do you train? perhaps I could come and see for myself?


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## JWLuiza (Nov 7, 2007)

Those videos weren't that impressive and don't really detract from the critics comments about the style.


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## ThomoAZ (Nov 8, 2007)

Cirdan said:


> Yeah, if you ever buy something you end up with something that looks nice but under the surface is pure crap and in the end you waste a lot of time and loose money.
> 
> Where can i get one of those robotic arms with boxing gloves that punch out of the wall when a salesman rings the doorbell?


 

well i dunno about you guys in europe but the SDC (thats the door-to -door  people " Self Defence Consultants") is an actual Black belt and walks around wearing it (or at least the one who came wanting me to join them) my mother told them i already do karate but good old mum catered to mum interest in other styles and sent me to the door. i was then told there was no point in getting consulted because of my experiance and just gave me a card (the person did however explain to me the workings of the internet which i was not happy adout)


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## Cirdan (Nov 8, 2007)

ThomoAZ said:


> well i dunno about you guys in europe but the SDC (thats the door-to -door people " Self Defence Consultants") is an actual Black belt and walks around wearing it (or at least the one who came wanting me to join them)


 
These guys actually walk door to door wearing their gi and belt? :lfao:
Suddenly Jehova`s Witnesses doesn`t seem so bad.


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## okashiibudo (Dec 27, 2007)

Enough hearsay, folks. I say, if you want to know about GKR, go check out a GKR club. If not, then you're just blowing bubbles.

There are 2 GKR clubs in the US that I know of, and both of them are located here in Houston. One of them is just down the road from me, so I stopped in on my way home from work one day and had a look.

I was the only adult in the class, aside from the instructor (I don't know how it is in Australia or the UK, but here in the States karate is often seen as a babysitting endeavor, so you'll see a lot of kids in the classes. I mean any karate, not just GKR).

Anyway, it was a basic class, the kind you'd see in any dojo anywhere. Warm-up, basic strikes, blocks and kicks, and then walk-through instruction on beginner-level kata. There was a rudimentary form of sparring, but nothing serious, and the sparring part was only a few minutes at the end of the class.

For my money, it was as good a karate class as any other. The instructor was down to earth, not puffing himself up or anything, and he was not a yellow or orange belt in an "instructor's belt" - I didn't see anything like that.

I also haven't seen them going door-to-door here. Then again, very few people go door-to-door in my neighborhood.

Just my two cents. I wanted to check it out before I said anything about it, and I was surprised as I didn't see any of the things I've been reading about them on forums like this one.

Respectfully,
okashii budo


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