# Heavyweight



## Warrior-Scholar (Oct 4, 2006)

You know, it is almost sad to see the lack of confidence that most UFC fans have in the heavyweight division.  I mean come on, we get more excited watching the Welterweight and Light Heavyweight!  So, is it even worth comparing Monson, Sylvia and Arlovski to Emelianenko, Cro Cop et al?  Who even wants to watch a UFC heavyweight match right now?
Please change my mind someone!!!


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## Ybot (Oct 4, 2006)

Pride owns the best heavy weight fighters IMO.  Fedor is an amazing fighter at all ranges and just dismantles whoever he fights.  Cro Cop has some of the scariest kicks I've ever seen, the dude could end a fight at anytime.  Nog is one of my heroes (me being a BJJ guy), and is one of the few who still owns people with a traditional BJJ game.  Anyway, I personally enjoy watching these guys.  Monson is a great grappler, but a snooze fest in my oppinion.  Sylvia is a great fighter who comes in with good strategy to his fights, but personaly I don't enjoy watching him either.

Okay, that said, the higher pace of the lighter weight divisions usually make for more exciting fights.  You are more likely to see a show with these guys, which is great.


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## Warrior-Scholar (Oct 4, 2006)

How do you think Emelianenko would do in these Open Challenges that Rook is talking about?  Would he succumb to the unstoppable Brazilians?  Are the rules in PRIDE protecting him?  Don't take me too seriously...really, how would he do?

Pardon my skepticism....it's healthy!
I don't understand why more people aren't dying or ending up disfigured in these Open Challenges if there are no rules.  Accidents alone should cause this.  Perhaps people are dying and it just isn't publicized.


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## Ybot (Oct 5, 2006)

Depending on which Gracie he fought Fedor might kill the poor guy...

Honestly, if Fedor fought some of the poor dudes the Gracies faced I believe he could seriously injure them, but like the Gracies, I don't believe he'd have to.

Personally, I'm a bit skeptical of "leathal techniques".  If there's one thing I've learned through my training and watching MMA, its that humans can take a lot more punishment that most give them credit for.  Check out Randelmans suplex of Fedor, or Nog v. Bob Sapp, or Nog vs. Cro Cop...  okay, maybe I just learned that Nog and Fedor are superhuman.  

Oh, and as far as no rules challenge matches...  well, I've never seen one personally, and quite honestly believe they are very rare.  Gracies In Action has the most I've seen, but in these cases it was usually against guys with little or no grappling skills, so the matches were ended quickly and safely (which is one reason I love grappling BTW).


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## Rook (Oct 5, 2006)

Warrior-Scholar said:


> How do you think Emelianenko would do in these Open Challenges that Rook is talking about? Would he succumb to the unstoppable Brazilians? Are the rules in PRIDE protecting him? Don't take me too seriously...really, how would he do?


 
Fedor at the very top of the MMA game.  He's beaten the very top rated fighters in PRIDE including Antonio Rodrigo Nogera who is the best BJJ fighter in MMA today, Mirko Cro-Cop, a K-1 fighter who has one of the top stand up fighting abilities on earth, and numerous other superhigh level fighters among others.  The Gracies have about a good a chance to beat Fedor as they do of overthrowing God.  To my knowledge, Fedor is a career fighter who doesn't take on no-rules matches because he has better things to do with his time.  



> Pardon my skepticism....it's healthy!


 
That it is.  



> I don't understand why more people aren't dying or ending up disfigured in these Open Challenges if there are no rules. Accidents alone should cause this. Perhaps people are dying and it just isn't publicized.


 
The thing is, people are alot more resiliant than many people give them credit for.  A professional fighter doesn't ussually have a hard time being able to knock someone out without beating him to death, or choke him out without strangling him to death.


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## Andrew Green (Oct 5, 2006)

heh... yeah... Gracies fought and won heavyweights once, but now everyone knows what they are doing on the ground, The family is having  a hard time keeping there fighters on the top of any weight class, and they aren't a family of heavyweights 

Anyways, as Ybot said.  Most of the people that took the Gracie challenge had no knowledge of groundfighting.  The Gracie representitve forced a clinch, took them down and toyed with them.  Even in the early UFC's Royce was to represent the system by winning without hurting anyone.

And we do take a lot of punishment before our bodies die 

Injuries that like to hang around for ever are probably more common, but then again they are in sport as well.  One thing full contact fighting teaches you that point fighting or static drills don't, is how to protect yourself when someone is beating on you.  How to cover, protect the important things, and press forward and clinch rather then turn away and get hit more.

That's something I have yet to see an effective way other then full contact fighting to teach, how to stay protected when someone is beating on you.  Yes, in "real world" the beating will hurt more, but we still got to go to work tomorrow and be able to walk in 10 years


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## Odin (Oct 5, 2006)

Anyway enough of this 'in the real world' talk its really winds me up!..

I found this on sherdog its the heavyweight rankings the way the people see it from across all federations..theres ermmm some ufc fighters in there..( : 

CAREER HEAVYWEIGHT RANKINGS (205 - 265 lbs)FIGHTERRATINGLAST EVENTMirko Filipovic32898PRIDEAntonio Rodrigo Nogueira32561PRIDEFedor Emelianenko31041PRIDEJosh Barnett24020PRIDEPedro Rizzo20450PRIDE 31Dan Severn17700IEMasakatsu Funaki17010C2KMark Coleman16939PRIDE 31Vladimir Matyushenko16668Extreme Wars 3Tsuyoshi Kohsaka12330PRIDEKen Shamrock12008UFC 61Ulysses Castro11891NFC 4Tim Sylvia11817UFC 61Mark Hunt10462PRIDEBobby Hoffman10237KOTCValentijn Overeem9256KOTRGilbert Yvel8324CR 17Ian Freeman8031CR 18Pete Williams7386UFC 36Heath Herring7195K-1


The problem I think UFC have is that they dont invest in over seas talent enough.....my mum told me that if you have nothing nice to say dont say anything at all...so i wont talk about Tim slyvia.


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## Warrior-Scholar (Oct 5, 2006)

Monson called Tim and Andrei out not too long ago.  He stated that he will simply take them to the ground and finish them quickly from that position.  I want to see things shake up in that division anyway!!!  Honestly, they don't hype it enough.


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## Odin (Oct 5, 2006)

Odin said:


> Anyway enough of this 'in the real world' talk its really winds me up!..
> 
> I found this on sherdog its the heavyweight rankings the way the people see it from across all federations..theres ermmm some ufc fighters in there..( :
> 
> ...


 
well my post turned out well formated there.


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## Ybot (Oct 5, 2006)

Warrior-Scholar said:


> Monson called Tim and Andrei out not too long ago. He stated that he will simply take them to the ground and finish them quickly from that position. I want to see things shake up in that division anyway!!! Honestly, they don't hype it enough.


No offence to Monson, I do think he's more than capible of taking the title, but I just don't see him as the kind of champion who will put people in the seats.

I agree with Odin about investing in over seas talent.  UFC doesn't do it enough in any division.  Let's seem more of those top quality strikers from Holland, or some Shute Box guys...  Bringing in Anderson Silva is a good thing for Middle weight, lets see some K1 guys in heavy weight, or some world class wrestlers again...


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