# Bruce Lee is an excellent example of somebody who really pushed himself



## PhotonGuy

I've posted before about what I believe how its important to work hard and to push yourself. Well Bruce Lee is an excellent example of that. If somebody doesn't want to rush through stuff that's fine and I think its a good idea not to rush to the point where you do a bad job and miss some of the important stuff but there is nothing wrong with pushing yourself a little harder and getting things done a little sooner than it would've taken you otherwise while still doing just as good a job if not better. Bruce Lee would do that. One example which I learned about when watching a film on his biography is how Bruce Lee made a deal with a kung fu instructor. Bruce Lee was into cha cha dancing and in exchange for some kung fu lessons Bruce would teach the instructor some cha cha. When Bruce started the kung fu lessons, according to the instructor it took him three days to learn what it would take most other people to learn in three months. Unfortunately for the instructor he didn't get to learn all that much cha cha since in three days he had only learned the basic rhythm. So Bruce Lee would be somebody who pushed himself harder than most people and who did more than most people in less time and who did just as good, if not a better job. After all, just look at this awesome JKD system he developed.


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## Thunder Foot

A good example of the importance of training attributes.


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## Mephisto

A good example of somebody who pushed himself is mike Tyson or any professional athlete for that matter. Bruce lee did as well, but an anecdote shared posthumously should be taken with a grain of salt. It may be true but it seems when someone as popular and talented as Bruce lee does everyone is quick to share their story of how great he was. By sharing a story of how great another is I don't seem too blind and self absorbed, but if that person is famous I can still benefit from it by telling my students that I trained with one of the greats.

Bruce lee was great but I've met too many martial artists who quote and cite him and expect it to be so profound, it was cool when I was a young man, now it's cliche. In everyone's adoration of Bruce they cheapen his image, they put him on a pedestal. He was a human, he wasn't the best fighter ever, I'd bet many modern mma fighters could have given him a run for his money but he was ahead of his time and deserves credit for that. Superior ability tskes superior conditioning, most athletes have that, yet few claim the mystique that Bruce did.


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## drop bear

Yeah i agree with the concept.

we do a 12week program that puts a person in the ring at the end of it.

and it definitely gives them a nudge forwards in their mrtial arts.


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## PhotonGuy

Mephisto said:


> A good example of somebody who pushed himself is mike Tyson or any professional athlete for that matter. Bruce lee did as well, but an anecdote shared posthumously should be taken with a grain of salt. It may be true but it seems when someone as popular and talented as Bruce lee does everyone is quick to share their story of how great he was. By sharing a story of how great another is I don't seem too blind and self absorbed, but if that person is famous I can still benefit from it by telling my students that I trained with one of the greats.
> 
> Bruce lee was great but I've met too many martial artists who quote and cite him and expect it to be so profound, it was cool when I was a young man, now it's cliche. In everyone's adoration of Bruce they cheapen his image, they put him on a pedestal. He was a human, he wasn't the best fighter ever, I'd bet many modern mma fighters could have given him a run for his money but he was ahead of his time and deserves credit for that. Superior ability tskes superior conditioning, most athletes have that, yet few claim the mystique that Bruce did.


I seriously doubt that any, let alone many of the modern mma fighters could give Bruce Lee a run for his money. No doubt there's people that can rival him but give him a run for his money, that would be a long shot, a big long shot. From what I know about Bruce's physical capabilities he could send a man weighing over 200 lbs flying with a one inch punch, that was with just a one inch punch. He could sidekick a 300 lb bag and send it slamming against the ceiling. There's been accounts of him sending linebackers flying across a swimming pool and almost hitting the other end with a kick, when the linebackers were holding big kicking shields. He was fast enough to ride in a jab. If you were to throw in a jab he could move back out of your reach and then move in with your hand as you retract it and be on top of you. He was sometimes told to slow down in his fight scenes in the movies because he was moving too fast for the audience to follow. So, to say a modern MMA fighter could give him a run for his money, perhaps only if they fought under rules that favored the MMA fighter and not Bruce. Otherwise, I seriously doubt it. 

But then, Bruce Lee is the epitome of hard work and devotion. There would be times when he would be training, his friends would ask if he wanted to go out with them for pizza and he would say he was too busy training, then when his friends came back from pizza he would say he was almost done before he switches to his other hand. It would be hard to beat anybody who puts that level of devotion into the martial arts.


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## Dirty Dog

PhotonGuy said:


> I seriously doubt that any, let alone many of the modern mma fighters could give Bruce Lee a run for his money. No doubt there's people that can rival him but give him a run for his money, that would be a long shot, a big long shot. From what I know about Bruce's physical capabilities he could send a man weighing over 200 lbs flying with a one inch punch, that was with just a one inch punch. He could sidekick a 300 lb bag and send it slamming against the ceiling. There's been accounts of him sending linebackers flying across a swimming pool and almost hitting the other end with a kick, when the linebackers were holding big kicking shields. He was fast enough to ride in a jab. If you were to throw in a jab he could move back out of your reach and then move in with your hand as you retract it and be on top of you. He was sometimes told to slow down in his fight scenes in the movies because he was moving too fast for the audience to follow. So, to say a modern MMA fighter could give him a run for his money, perhaps only if they fought under rules that favored the MMA fighter and not Bruce. Otherwise, I seriously doubt it.
> 
> But then, Bruce Lee is the epitome of hard work and devotion. There would be times when he would be training, his friends would ask if he wanted to go out with them for pizza and he would say he was too busy training, then when his friends came back from pizza he would say he was almost done before he switches to his other hand. It would be hard to beat anybody who puts that level of devotion into the martial arts.



You know, most people above the age of, roughly, 12, have learned the difference between fact and urban myth. Perhaps this could be the subject of one of your therapy sessions?


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## donald1

bruce lee was good, maybe great. but im not going to say the best. i dont know much about bruce lee i never met him. but im pretty sure nobody is undefeatable.


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## PhotonGuy

Dirty Dog said:


> You know, most people above the age of, roughly, 12, have learned the difference between fact and urban myth. Perhaps this could be the subject of one of your therapy sessions?



I've spoken with instructors who've trained under Dan Insanto and I've spoken with people who've worked with Bruce himself so I know what Im talking about.


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## PhotonGuy

donald1 said:


> bruce lee was good, maybe great. but im not going to say the best. i dont know much about bruce lee i never met him. but im pretty sure nobody is undefeatable.



There are people who could rival him but he was certainly one of the best.


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## Mephisto

lol oKay, Bruce was the best ever. I heard he once killed a lion with one punch, it was from a reliable source


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## Dirty Dog

PhotonGuy said:


> I've spoken with instructors who've trained under Dan Insanto and I've spoken with people who've worked with Bruce himself so I know what Im talking about.


 
Yes, well, you also consider a guy who claims to make magic swords a reliable source, so you may consider me skeptical of this claim.

Bruce Lee was a talented martial artist and an ever better self-promoter. He was, however, human. And the nonsense you've been attributing to him defies the laws of physics and physiology.


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## yak sao

PhotonGuy said:


> . After all, just look at this awesome JKD system he developed.



I admire Bruce Lee. Seriously, what's not to admire? He had tremendous attributes, had a well developed physique, he had charisma, great technique, a tremendous work ethic and on and on and on.

But JKD was simply a retooling of what he had learned from WC. He spent only a few years learning WC before he was cut off from the source so he "recreated the wheel". He researched other methods and applied WC theory to them. Even the name "_Way of the Intercepting Fist_" is a WC principle.

Can't we just accept the fact that he was a good martial artist, one that we can follow as an example in one way or another without deifying him?
The best of men are men at best.


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## Tony Dismukes

Bruce Lee was undoubtedly an example of an individual who accomplished excellence in his art through dedication and pushing himself much harder than most martial artists ever do.

Other examples: any high-level professional fighter in any style (boxing, kickboxing, judo, MMA, whatever), many high-level professional "performance" martial artists (Chinese opera, modern Wushu, movie-fu practitioners), and a whole batch of martial artists that you've never heard of because they aren't movie stars and they aren't into self-promotion.

At the highest level, these people are athletes who are pushing the limits of what the human body is physically capable of. They are riding the fine line between pushing as hard as possible and pushing so hard that they damage themselves. The gap between these individuals and even a dedicated hobbyist like myself is rather greater than the gap between myself and most white belts.


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## yak sao

Tony Dismukes said:


> At the highest level, these people are athletes who are pushing the limits of what the human body is physically capable of. They are riding the fine line between pushing as hard as possible and pushing so hard that they damage themselves. *The gap between these individuals and even a dedicated hobbyist like myself is rather greater than the gap between myself and most white belts*.



Now that is humbling.


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## PhotonGuy

Mephisto said:


> lol oKay, Bruce was the best ever. I heard he once killed a lion with one punch, it was from a reliable source


And just what was that reliable source?


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## PhotonGuy

Dirty Dog said:


> Yes, well, you also consider a guy who claims to make magic swords a reliable source, so you may consider me skeptical of this claim.
> 
> Bruce Lee was a talented martial artist and an ever better self-promoter. He was, however, human. And the nonsense you've been attributing to him defies the laws of physics and physiology.



Daniel Watson never claimed to make magical swords. If you heard of him making such claims perhaps you could give the source.


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## drop bear

PhotonGuy said:


> And just what was that reliable source?



that was sarcasm.

for all of Bruce lees martial prowess he never fought anybody any good.

so although you can say Bruce lee was the best ever. There is no evidence to suggest he would have dominated the professional circuit.

but considering we can all be our own source if you said it. It is evidence i guess.


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## Chris Parker

drop bear said:


> that was sarcasm.
> 
> for all of Bruce lees martial prowess he never fought anybody any good.
> 
> so although you can say Bruce lee was the best ever. There is no evidence to suggest he would have dominated the professional circuit.
> 
> *but considering we can all be our own source if you said it. It is evidence i guess.*



Good god, learn to recognise context… and not take your lack of ability to grasp an argument across multiple threads just to have another snide dig, kay?

To the topic, yeah… Photon Guy, learn to differentiate between urban legend and reality… Bruce was good (personally, I'm less impressed by him than others, when it comes to his approach to martial arts, but that's a personal thing), but that's it. His publicity and personality counted for more than his combative skills did… although, by all accounts his combative skills weren't lacking, they are just one part of the reason his legacy continues.


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## Buka

Orville and Wilbur's plane wouldn't last two seconds in todays Air Force.

There's urban legend, and there's the backlash to urban legend. So many today discount Bruce Lee as "not all that" and they do it so damn easily. Having spent time with several well known Martial Artists who've trained with Bruce, he was real damn good as a Martial Artist.
At the very least, he was the first modern day child to cry out "The Emperor’s not wearing any clothes!" For that alone, I will always be thankful.


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## Mephisto

PhotonGuy said:


> And just what was that reliable source?


Me some guy on the Internet, trust me!

Bruce had some skills, people say he could fight, we don't really have any proof though as mentioned. He also had charisma and parlor tricks. Take the one inch punch, in every video his "uke" stands straight up feet parallel and in the same plane, perpendicular to Bruce, not anything like a person would fight, this basic "at attention" stance makes the uke weak from and force applied from the front. It's not hard to send someone tumbling backwards when they stand this way. With some training and skill a one inch punch can be made to look more impressive than it actually is. Show me video of him doing it on someone in a different stance or better yet on a moving target and I'll be impressed. It's like tearing a phone book in half, looks impressive and takes some skill but it's easier than you'd expect.


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## Cirdan

The real question is of course which Bruce is the baddest, Lee or Wayne?


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## Blindside

Wayne pushed himself more and has more movie biographies and TV shows.


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## Cirdan

Indeed Blindside. Not to mention Iirc Kato only managed a draw vs Robin and Batman surely must be a notch above the Boy Wonder.


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## Transk53

@Cirdan. Are you mocking these up? If so, impressive


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## Tony Dismukes

Transk53 said:


> @Cirdan. Are you mocking these up? If so, impressive


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## Transk53

Tony Dismukes said:


>



Thank you, he did say Gung Fu right. Never seen that


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## PhotonGuy

Cirdan said:


> The real question is of course which Bruce is the baddest, Lee or Wayne?


I would go with Clark.


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## Cirdan

PhotonGuy said:


> I would go with Clark.



I wouldn`t, Bats got a kryptonite ring


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## Thunder Foot

yak sao said:


> ...But JKD was simply a retooling of what he had learned from WC. He spent only a few years learning WC before he was cut off from the source so he "recreated the wheel". He researched other methods and applied WC theory to them. Even the name "_Way of the Intercepting Fist_" is a WC principle...


I am in complete agreement. I wanted to add that it is rumored that Bruce finished his WC training under the tutelage of Fook Yeung in the Hei Ban WC system. He's also credited to have taught Bruce a few tanglang sets, and some performance techs for film. Wish I knew more of his time with Yeung!


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## Xue Sheng

Cirdan said:


> Indeed Blindside. Not to mention Iirc Kato only managed a draw vs Robin and Batman surely must be a notch above the Boy Wonder.



Actually saw an interview with one of the people from the TV show "Batman" I think it was either the director of that episode or the producer. Apparently Burt Ward was terrified going into this "staged" fight with Bruce Lee and more than once during filming he jump out of the way


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## crazydiamond

I have only  begun my studies on JKDC and the history of Bruce. But what I admire most - even beyond his physical skills (real and embellished AD) was his dedication to research and taking the best from other systems. If he saw something that could work (in real world), he took those parts into his system. He read so many books, studied so many boxing films always wanting to find the best. I understand he had a great ego in some respects ... but also not an ego when it came to one approach to martial arts, he never got stuck into a way....and was always examining his approaches and assumptions, improving. He broke out of strict classical boundaries. I think I personally enjoy being allowed to think this way - even challenging my instructors a little and adjusting my focus on certain things that work for me.


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## hongkongfooey

PhotonGuy said:


> I seriously doubt that any, let alone many of the modern mma fighters could give Bruce Lee a run for his money. No doubt there's people that can rival him but give him a run for his money, that would be a long shot, a big long shot. From what I know about Bruce's physical capabilities he could send a man weighing over 200 lbs flying with a one inch punch, that was with just a one inch punch. He could sidekick a 300 lb bag and send it slamming against the ceiling. There's been accounts of him sending linebackers flying across a swimming pool and almost hitting the other end with a kick, when the linebackers were holding big kicking shields. He was fast enough to ride in a jab. If you were to throw in a jab he could move back out of your reach and then move in with your hand as you retract it and be on top of you. He was sometimes told to slow down in his fight scenes in the movies because he was moving too fast for the audience to follow. So, to say a modern MMA fighter could give him a run for his money, perhaps only if they fought under rules that favored the MMA fighter and not Bruce. Otherwise, I seriously doubt it.
> 
> But then, Bruce Lee is the epitome of hard work and devotion. There would be times when he would be training, his friends would ask if he wanted to go out with them for pizza and he would say he was too busy training, then when his friends came back from pizza he would say he was almost done before he switches to his other hand. It would be hard to beat anybody who puts that level of devotion into the martial arts.



Oh boy...


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## Cirdan

Xue Sheng said:


> Actually saw an interview with one of the people from the TV show "Batman" I think it was either the director of that episode or the producer. Apparently Burt Ward was terrified going into this "staged" fight with Bruce Lee and more than once during filming he jump out of the way



I think in the first script for the scene Kato was actually supposed to lose the fight. Because of this Lee was pretending to be extremely pissed off and agressive at Burt, apparantly he scared him and the others enough that they changed the outcome to a draw


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## Xue Sheng

Cirdan said:


> I think in the first script for the scene Kato was actually supposed to lose the fight. Because of this Lee was pretending to be extremely pissed off and agressive at Burt, apparantly he scared him and the others enough that they changed the outcome to a draw



I believe you are right, I seem to remember that being talked about as well


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## Marnetmar

I'm pretty sure that if Bruce Lee were around today and didn't star in any movies he would be viewed as another MMA guy.


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## Thunder Foot

The term is so generic that anyone can be viewed as an MMA guy.


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## Xue Sheng

Thunder Foot said:


> The term is so generic that anyone can be viewed as an MMA guy.



Yup, but I am about to start a MMA Sub-system.....CMMA...Chinese Mixed Martial Arts...because I trained Long Fist, Sanda, Xingyi, Bagua and Taiji...oh wait a minute..... ICMMA..... Internal Chinese Mixed Martial Arts...because I trained Xingyi, Bagua and Taiji


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## Cirdan

Drop the first M and we are all just MA guys and gals


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## Tony Dismukes

Marnetmar said:


> I'm pretty sure that if Bruce Lee were around today and didn't star in any movies he would be viewed as another MMA guy.


Possibly. He never really competed much in his lifetime, other than a bit of amateur boxing as a kid and a challenge match with Wong Jack Man, so I don't know whether he would have jumped into the MMA arena. Then again, without his film career as a path to stardom he might have more motivation to enter the fight game.


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## Tez3

Thunder Foot said:


> The term is so generic that anyone can be viewed as an MMA *guy.*




Unless of course they were female.......


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## hongkongfooey

Marnetmar said:


> I'm pretty sure that if Bruce Lee were around today and didn't star in any movies he would be viewed as another MMA guy.



If Bruce Lee were alive today and didn't star in any movies he would likely be largely unknown outside of his local community. Or, he may have taken up XMA


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## Thunder Foot

Tushay Tez, tushay! My apologies.
Cross training has been done for thousands of years. Only recently has the community decided to give power to yet another label.


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## Xue Sheng

Thunder Foot said:


> Tushay Tez, tushay! My apologies.
> Cross training has been done for thousands of years. Only recently has the community decided to give power to yet another label.



Look at virtually every student of Dong Haichuan (13 October 1797 or 1813 — 25 October 1882) and you will see most (possibly all) trained another art rather extensively before going to train Baguazhang with him. And then look at the styles of Bagua his students came up with and taught. You will see major similarities but also some fairly big differences and those differences come from their prior training. One could also make an argument that was cross training as well


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## ALEX WHITE

As a trained Wing Chun practitioner I know of the myths surrounding Bruce Lee, still even on his BEST DAY FIGHTING they say he still couldn't beat Ip Man or Wong Shun Leung, but whats a student without a master, he was one of the hardest training men IN HISTORY. I respect the legend with highest possible honors in my book. I and my friend don are 2 training machines who constantly train and always aim high with training.


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## Transk53

ALEX WHITE said:


> As a trained Wing Chun practitioner I know of the myths surrounding Bruce Lee, still even on his BEST DAY FIGHTING they say he still couldn't beat Ip Man or Wong Shun Leung, but whats a student without a master, he was one of the hardest training men IN HISTORY. I respect the legend with highest possible honors in my book. I and my friend don are 2 training machines who constantly train and always aim high with training.



That is very admirable, but anything can happen in a fight.


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## Blindside

ALEX WHITE said:


> As a trained Wing Chun practitioner I know of the myths surrounding Bruce Lee, still even on his BEST DAY FIGHTING they say he still couldn't beat Ip Man or Wong Shun Leung, but whats a student without a master, he was one of the hardest training men IN HISTORY. I respect the legend with highest possible honors in my book. I and my friend don are 2 training machines who constantly train and always aim high with training.


 
Who is "they."


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## ALEX WHITE

Blindside said:


> Who is "they."



the martial arts community


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## Blindside

Well, as part of the "martial arts community" I certainly can't say it, who in the "martial arts community" says that he couldn't beat Ip Man or Wong Shun Leung?


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## Chris Parker

Hi Alex,

The following is said dispassionately, so please try to take it in that vein… what I'm intending here is to highlight a few things to you, to help you in your communication here, as well as highlighting one or two home truths...



ALEX WHITE said:


> As a trained Wing Chun practitioner I know of the myths surrounding Bruce Lee,



Okay, to clarify this, you aren't quite what many here would class as a "trained Wing Chun practitioner"… not yet, at least. At present, with two years experience, you're still very much new to this… you have some understanding of the system, sure, but I'm not sure that that little amount of time can class you as being particularly informed in this area. As for the stories around Bruce, you're 17, yeah? It might help to remember that there are members here who have trained with students and contemporaries of Bruce, if not Bruce himself… and certainly from around, or even before the time that Bruce was around.

This isn't to discredit you, but to demonstrate that you might be overreaching your knowledge in this case.



ALEX WHITE said:


> still even on his BEST DAY FIGHTING they say he still couldn't beat Ip Man or Wong Shun Leung,



As was asked, who is it that says anything like that? I haven't ever even come across anyone discussing this, let alone claiming who would win in any circumstances. I have come across certain Wing Chun practitioners downplay Bruce's experience and knowledge of Wing Chun… but that's quite a different thing entirely.



ALEX WHITE said:


> but whats a student without a master,



That depends on who the student is, and how far they went with their instructor in the first place, yeah? Of course, I'm not sure where the context for this comment is… 



ALEX WHITE said:


> he was one of the hardest training men IN HISTORY.



Nor this… of course, the Spartan's might have disagreed… as would many, many others throughout history. Bruce might be one of the most well known from recent history in terms of his training methodology, but that's far from the same thing as saying that he was one of the hardest training persons in history… 

My point is that overly dramatic rhetoric can lead you to claim some things that are very hard to support, or are outright incorrect. A more balanced look at things can be far more in line with reality, as well as being less likely to appear overly eager to push a single bias.



ALEX WHITE said:


> I respect the legend with highest possible honors in my book.



Okay. Of course, the legend and the man aren't necessarily the same thing… 



ALEX WHITE said:


> I and my friend don are 2 training machines who constantly train and always aim high with training.



Hmm. Okay… to be frank, I get that you might think this, but I don't know that it would stack up against what others do… nor do I see any real relevance at all. I get that you're proud of your ethic and training mentality, which is great… but this comment has no bearing on the rest of your post, this thread, or anything similar, and has no support at all other than your (personal) impression.

Don't worry about impressing anyone here… it's really not necessary. Not only that, but talking about how intense your training is tends not to impress anyway… you'd be better served simply engaging in conversation, and talking about things from your level of experience.

All the best with the rest of your time on the forum here, and I look forward to seeing you around.


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## Thunder Foot

In terms of Bruce's ability in HK, I've heard both sides of the coin. My belief is that he impressed them. That's enough for me to give merit.

In regards to cross training as Xue mentioned, that is a common theme among many fists. Its the epitome of cross training in my opinion.but as the saying goes, "everything old becomes new."


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## Deleted member 32980

Yes. He is somebody. 

"I'll be the most famous Chinese star ever" 

That's from memory, can't remember the whole thing.


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