# What do you get for fee?



## TimBreuning (Feb 20, 2005)

Oss to All.

I've been wondering on the graduation prices and what you get.

A graduation for the first black belt, costs around 250 US$. Some of it goes to the top level (typically) japanese man, but the rest is going to the headquaters in Japan.
I've been told it is a fee for getting registered, and you also get a diploma with Shihan Kanazawa's signature.

First: why so expensive? I can hardly believe it costs the same all around the world.

Second: why does the fees going to Japan increase when going for higher grades? I'd guess registration would be the same work regardless of what grade.

Third: has anyone been to Japan and seen what happens there? What happens to the data sent to them?


AFAIK, JKA has lower prices, but in SKIF it seems we still spend a lot of money.

/Tim


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## tshadowchaser (Feb 20, 2005)

The questions you have asked have been asked by many in different styles and organisations.  To me it always said "I want to buy this rank and I know I can do what is required as long as the money involved is not to steep".

I can understand paying a minimal fee to have paper work recorded and a certificate issued but some of the fees required by some organisations is way out of hand.

I also have wondered why the paper work costs more the higher in rank you go.


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## JAMJTX (Feb 20, 2005)

My experience has been that fees in general are much, much lower in Japan than in the U.S. - not just certificate fees, but training costs as well.

I think the cost, especially where certificates are concerned has more to with American's liking to pay more moeny for things that they think are fashionable.  Regardless of the skill level involved in passing a test, it's still fashionable to have fancy certificates from Japan, with real kanji.  So people will pay any price to get them.

There are some, I know, who are willing to pay the higher prices because they respect thier teacher and don't want to make waves about the fees.  But the prices have nothing to do with the cost of processing the paperwork.  Doing that costs literally just pennies.


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## TimoS (Feb 21, 2005)

tshadowchaser said:
			
		

> I also have wondered why the paper work costs more the higher in rank you go.



I've been lately involved in setting a price for black belt examinations in our organization (and style) and the logic behind using a relatively high "price tag" for exams was in our organization that if people get something for free or next to nothing, they wouldn't appreciate it so much. I'm not so sure about the logic, but that's the reason I was given.


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## RRouuselot (Feb 21, 2005)

JAMJTX said:
			
		

> 1)[font=&quot]      [/font]My experience has been that fees in general are much, much lower in Japan than in the U.S. - not just certificate fees, but training costs as well.
> 
> I think the cost, especially where certificates are concerned has more to with American's liking to pay more moeny for things that they think are fashionable. Regardless of the skill level involved in passing a test, it's still fashionable to have fancy certificates from Japan, with real kanji. So people will pay any price to get them.
> 
> There are some, I know, who are willing to pay the higher prices because they respect thier teacher and don't want to make waves about the fees. But the prices have nothing to do with the cost of processing the paperwork. Doing that costs literally just pennies.



   1)[font=&quot]      [/font]I think that depends on where you go. I have seen some big dojo that require you to slap down wads of cash. A typical entrance fee (ie we let you come and play with us charge) can be around 20,000 yen ($200) on average and the average dojo fee is 10,000 to 7,000 yen ($100 to $70) a month. Most dojo require you to cough up the entrance fee and one month tuition before you start training, then you have to buy the dogi. Those cost in Japan. Cheap ones run around $70 to $100 good ones from Shureido go up to $270ish. So you are looking at $300 easy before you even step foot on the dojo floor.


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## RRouuselot (Feb 21, 2005)

Here are the prices for one of the many JKA honbu dojo.

http://www.jka.or.jp/english/join/fees.html

      So it looks like $245 bucks just to say "Hi let me train" and then you still have to buy a dogi.

       10,000 yen = $100 more or less

    [font=&quot]Tokyo JKA HQ Membership Fees[/font][font=&quot] The cost of a JKA membership varies greatly by region and country, so it is not possible to list one set of figures here. Please contact your nearest authorized JKA representative for information on the specific fees required in your area.

 Fees for a membership at the Tokyo JKA HQ are shown in the following chart. JKA Members from abroad can participate in training by paying ¥1,000 per day (if attending classes for less than 10 days).

    [/font]           ​           Entrance Fee + Monthly Fee  + Annual Membership =     Total 

  General       ¥10,000 + ¥10,000        + ¥4,500                 = ¥24,500 



*NOTE:*[font=&quot] In addition to the above fees, applicants are required to bring ¥1,400 for insurance fees (¥450 for junior high school students and younger).[/font][font=&quot]
    *The Annual Membership Fee is ¥4,000 from the second year.

    First Monthly Fee Applicants joining before the 10th of the month must pay the full Monthly Fee.
    Applicants joining between the 10th and 20th of the month must pay ¥4,000 plus the next months Monthly Fee.
    Applicants joining after the 20th of the month must pay ¥2,000 plus the next months Monthly Fee.

    Training Schedule There is no practice or training on Sundays or holidays. The Tokyo JKA HQ Dojo training schedule
    is as follows:[/font]


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## TimBreuning (Feb 21, 2005)

Maybe Timo is right - some people might think higher of their black belt if they have to pay a lot. I guess I'm not one of them. In my opinion, it's stupid having to pay some foreign organisation a small fortune. When I pass my next belt (3 dan), I'm done with graduations.

One of my original questions was if anyone has any knowledge of what happens to the data sent to Japan? Is it actually recorded somewhere??


/Tim


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## RRouuselot (Feb 21, 2005)

TimBreuning said:
			
		

> Maybe Timo is right - some people might think higher of their black belt if they have to pay a lot. I guess I'm not one of them. In my opinion, it's stupid having to pay some foreign organisation a small fortune. When I pass my next belt (3 dan), I'm done with graduations.
> 
> One of my original questions was if anyone has any knowledge of what happens to the data sent to Japan? Is it actually recorded somewhere??
> 
> ...


   It really depends on the Org. in Japan. I think some Org. may keep it, however from the groups that I have seen they often issue a membership card that has your name and rank on it so that if you go to a dojo in Japan they will know your rank.


 They have "diploma mills" here as well....namely the Kokusai Budoin which I think is called the International Martial Arts Federation in English. They take your money and give....sorry..."sell" you some rank which is absolutely worthless anywhere else.


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## TimBreuning (Feb 21, 2005)

If I was to train in a club here in Denmark and someone told me to pay 100$, I'd leave instantly. The best instructors typically costs 350$ for a two hour session. Divided in 10 students that's only 35$, or more students even cheaper.
Did you mean PRIVATE classes? In that case it's more reasonable.

In my club we got a 3 dan and two 2 dan instructors. Adult fee is 25$ monthly + organisation which is paid once a year. For that you get to train 3 times a week, 90 minutes a time. We don't have eny expenses as the building is owned by the city, and the instructors don't get actually paid but once in a while get equipment and stuff. The main reason why it's so cheap is that noone is paid, and we all go there because it's something we like to do. It's not a big business or anything, just a small club with 60 members.
(got a little carried away there... sorry)

/Tim.-)


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## thepanjr (Mar 14, 2005)

wow lot of ripoffs. man some ppl are greedy for money. im just happy that i wouldnt have to pay 100 dollars or over for promotions


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## Thesemindz (Mar 16, 2005)

At our school testing fees are minimal. For beginner and intermediate ranks, $15 gets you a test, belt, and certificate. Comprehensive tests for Brown and Black belt ranking cost $30 and $50 respectively, because those tests are far longer and cover a great deal of material. However, test fees do not maintain at those levels. Tests within the brown and black ranks which are not comprehensive are still only $15. We are a commercial school with over a hundred students, but we have always felt that tests should not be about shelling out cash to "buy" your belt. 

-Rob


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## Shaolinwind (Mar 16, 2005)

Those numbers are in fact low in comparison.  To take the black belt test in my organization, the cost is in excess of 500 dollars, that's including a required lifetime membership.


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## thepanjr (Mar 17, 2005)

i get 3o buck with promotions


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