# Anti Terror action



## MartialArtsGuy (Oct 7, 2003)

How many of you think you would do something (fight) if you ever found yourself in a terrorist situation?

In Jets, Trains, Buses, buildings or wherever. Especially if professionals could not neutralize the threat. (on a jet)

I ask because, sometimes I think back to 911, and wonder why a plane full of hundreds of people did very little to counter the actions of very few individuals who were poorly armed.

I realize I was not there and that I should be sensative to that situation, but at the same time understanding "why" could help arm people with the knowledge needed to stop these things from happening in the future. 

Some of us are teachers in the martial arts, and in the unfortunate event that something like 911 happens again, we should be prepared to defend our lives and the lives of our loved ones.

If we are not up there than one of our students might be, and sometimes SWAT or the SEALs just cant be there. We as MARTIAL artists train to defend ourselves.

I'll start.

I would do something to fight, even if my life was on the line. Better me and a few others than the whole plane and whatever target the terrorists have in mind. I realize this is a tough subject and answers could vary depending on the situation. For the sake of the conversation we will assume that if you dont do anything everyone will perish, if you do something, you have a chance.

So what would you do?


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## Richard S. (Oct 7, 2003)

fight..gouge and rip and bite with as little regard for my own life as possible because as the name implies,terrorism has just that as its main weapon.."terror." now, if i understand "martyrdom" a terrorist's wet dream is to die and take as many of us with him/her...for the sake of my family and my country i will not go quietly.......id go on but my typing skills are really,really bad.


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## Shodan (Oct 7, 2003)

Interesting question!

  I'd like to say that I would act and fight to the best of my ability and that's what I "think" I would do........but it's hard to say exactly how confident I would feel once in the situation.  This reminds me of a discussion I had once with one of my instructors.....I told him that I always had a fear that if I was ever attacked or in a situation where I needed to use my martial arts that I would freeze up (like in dreams I have had) and forget everything or be paralyzed with fear.  He said he thought I would be able to fight even if I was scared.........but the point is........who really knows unless you are put in that situation.

  So anyway, my initial thought is to say that yes, I would fight with all my all- especially if it were a life or death situation for myself or those I love.  My secondary thought is...........I hope if it ever comes to that, that I CAN fight and maybe get out of the situation alive.

  :asian:  :karate:


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## OULobo (Oct 8, 2003)

I think that you have to look at two important issues when examining the behavior of the 9-11 victims on the planes. The first is the mentality of the situation. The idea that this country has a mainstream mentality of "let the professionals handle it." This puts people in the mind set of helpless victim that must be saved. Beyond that it is important to remember that the policy of the government and the airlines was to cooperate with the terrorists in assumption that all hijackings are hostage situations. 

Secondly, we must remember that they were told there was a bomb on the plane and while it may be possible to overpower the terrorists one at a time or in small groups, the chances that one could detonate the bomb in desperation were better. Its more logical to hope for a hostage situation than to take you chances overpowering a 5 or 6 man team of desperate, motivated and trained terrorists each with the possible ability to detonate. Remember that terrorists operate on the idea of terror and fear of death. This is enough to freeze many people right off the bat. 

Finally, let's remember that one group people on one of the four planes did resist and, consequently died (possibly saving many more) by doing so. I still get a little choked up when I hear "Let's roll."

Personally, with today's knowledge of their actions, I would take action in much the same manner as the group that resisted on 9-11. Quietly enlist some able bodied help and strike as best as possible. My thoughts are that a boxcutter is missing the most dangerous part of the knife, the point. If your opponent has no ability to puncture, your chances are greatly increased and in the cramped halls of a plane it would be hard for him to effectivly utilize his comrades. I think any trained fighter would have quite a fair chance in this situation, but there is no telling when the terrorists will say "oh, f___ it!" and crash the whole plane. 

I personally think that all the extra heavy airport security is a waste. I think the security should be higher than pre9-11, but this is overboard. Besides, the odds are slim they would try the same method again. We are too prepare and they have lost the element of suprise. I'd start looking at other targets, like chem factories, nuke plants, tunnels, subways, ferries.


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## theletch1 (Oct 8, 2003)

I'd like to think that I would fight to my last breath.  As was previously posted, you really never know til you're there.  





> I told him that I always had a fear that if I was ever attacked or in a situation where I needed to use my martial arts that I would freeze up (like in dreams I have had) and forget everything or be paralyzed with fear.


 We were discussing this very dream in the dojo a couple weeks ago.  It's really a very common dream that indicates an overwhelming fear.  I've had it myself and if I remember correctly almost every other student in the class (as well as the sensei) admitted to having had the same one.  The point of the conversation was that after training for a significant period of time you should be able to gain enough self confidence to control this paralyzing fear.  I never had the dream again after finishing boot camp, the sensei said he had never had it after training in the art for a while.  I think you'd do fine, that your training would become almost instinctive.

The American mentality regarding being victims has changed.  There was, indeed, the idea that all hi-jackings were hostage situations...that all you had to do was not draw attention to yourself and hope like hell you were returned home alive.  That's not the case anymore.  We've been bloodied on our own turf and that sent a message to the rest of the world that we aren't as invulnerable as was thought.  The choice to fight back is individual and I would not look down on anyone who froze but I've made a personal choice not to go quietly.


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## Cruentus (Oct 8, 2003)

One reason why 100's on a plane didn't take action: fear.

Since I have very little of that, I know I would take action.

I wouldn't try to be a cowboy though, which could endanger the people around me uneccisarily.

I would quickly but carefully asses the circumstance (how many, their intent, etc.). I would asses how much time I had to act, so I wouldn't waste time. Then...at the opportuned moment I would kiss my @$$ goodbye, and I would explode into action.


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## Titan Uk (Nov 2, 2003)

I like many other in the UK watch as 911 unfolded in front of us.

I like so many other believe that I would fight in this situation, but as others have mentioned we were not there.

We can prepare for terror attacks like so many of the countries but now it is a waiting game. One which I hope we win


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## hardheadjarhead (Nov 2, 2003)

I think many American martial artists asked themselves that they would do.  Many non-practicing martial artists asked themselves that question...I know that.

Everything changed after that morning.  I think people are going to fight like crazy if anyone tries that sort of thing again.  I know I would.  The assumption is that you're guaranteed to die if their plans succeed...one might as well try and stop it.  Failing that, one dies with a measure of dignity and honor.

Some people will be critical of that last sentence...but that's the way I look at it.

Tactics?  Gee...I don't know.  In a situation like that you'd have all sorts of complicating factors...like other hostages, etc.  If they had box cutters, etc., it'd be ugly, but more achievable than if they had guns.  If they grabbed someone and used them as a shield, you'd have to just keep going and hope you move fast enough to keep that person alive.

I'd probably grab an ink pen and start stabbing towards the eyes, the angle formed between the clavicle, trapezius, and sternocleidomastoid muscle.  I'd head butt, gouge, crush testes...and try to get one of their weapons.

And I think I would do it with great vigor, and more than a little rage.  I'm one of those that is still DEEPLY upset over 9-11.

One point folks...if this happens and you're on a plane, and you hear "FEDERAL MARSHALL'S...GET DOWN!!!" or something like that in unaccented English, do in fact get down.  Let them do the job.  You'll get shot if you don't.  Sit down.  In fact, scrunch down.

SCS


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## LadyDragon (Nov 3, 2003)

Personally, I would try and do what ever possible.  If it means that everyone else survives and I don't, then so be it.

During 9-11 one plane did just that, and granted those on that plane still parished, but that plane didn't slam in to anything that could have taken many more lives.


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## Chuck (Dec 31, 2003)

Post 911...I'm jumpimg in to take out hijackers, wiht the nastiest stuff I have, yeah a pen to the eyes, rip off the balls. Roll up a magazine and get a throat strike in.

On 911 the indications may have been that the hijackers weren't telling the passengers the truth about what was going to happen. The plane the passengers stopped from being used was because those persons had been talking on cells and knew what had happened in NY and DC. Obviously they took action, there are always some who will when they know the truth. 

Also, the planes that hit the towers were only in the air for a few minutes. I think they left from Boston.

The one that hit the Pentagon is one that may have been stopped, but since none of us were on it...


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## Ender (Dec 31, 2003)

An american flight will never be taken over again by terrorists like on 9/11. People on the plane will fight back now. We know what can happen if we don't fight back

Prior to 9/11, terrorsists did not crash the planes into buildings. They gave their demands, there were negotiations, and usually some sort of resoultion would occur. The passengers on 9/11 had no reason to even think about the planes being used as bombs. No, that terrorist strategy would not work again.


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## theletch1 (Jan 2, 2004)

> Failing that, one dies with a measure of dignity and honor


 No flak from this corner.  I think if more folks believed in death with dignity and honor there may be less death all around.


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## teej (Jan 10, 2004)

Well I am not an authority of what happened on these planes. But think about this. Up until 9-11, American hi-jacked planes always landed somewhere and then there were demands to be met. That is just MY undertanding and may not be fact. The point I am trying to make is that I believe that the 3 planes that struck their targets, did not know that they were not going to land. If they did figure it out, it was too late to act. We will never know. However, because of how the hi-jackers handled the situation on the 4th flight, (we don't know how the passengers were handled on the first 3) the passengers had access to use their cell phones and they learned that our country was under attack. They learned they were going to die. They did act! They saved more lives, and one of these heroes, that we know of, was a martial artist.

I taught a waitress a long time ago. She dropped out after a few months. In class she was always saying how she would never be able to do this or that to anyone trying to hurt her. Several months after she had quit, she stopped in to let me know how a man waited for her in the parking lot one night. He tried to put some advances on her, and scared, she was able to defend herself from what she had thought she would never be able to use. 

I just hope and pray that none of us ever find ourselves in any of these situations. And you don't have to be a martial artist to defend yourselves. Training just better prepares you for many of the situations that life throws at you, and yes, some of them you may have to defend yourself.

Back to 911 and the passengers doing very little against poorly armed hi-jackers, I truely believe that they did not know their fate. Had they know they were to be flown into buildings, some of them (probably not all of them) but some of them would have acted.

Teej


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