# Goju vs Shorin



## Herm (Jul 24, 2017)

so my son recently started karate. The only teacher locally is a Goju Ryu teacher. My son wanted me to start taking it with him. I've been reluctant but finally gave in. His teacher doesn't remember me but he and I started karate in the 90s about the same time from a guy that just made up his system, but it won tournaments.  His teacher and I just got our 1 dan when I joined the Marines. Since then I got 2 dan in Shorin ryu and 1 dan in Shotokan. But haven't trained in about 12 years. Since trading in traditional systems I have always been taught to work off of the center line and that blocks are not even remotely blocks.  So I go to this class and he starts trashing my blocks and saying they won't work and they'll never stop anything. Then proceeds to tell me that I was wrong and in Okinawa shorin looks like goju. My first shorin ryu teacher was an Okinawan and he taught never cross centerline and nearly everything is about 45 degree angle. 
     My sons teacher professes a 7 dan and is not 50 yet. How can I tactfully express the validity of what I know without calling him out on what he doesn't know


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## Headhunter (Jul 24, 2017)

You don't if your son is training there you shut up and just let him do it. As you said you haven't trained for 12 years. Some people do things different if your kids training there you don't get involved with the teaching it'll only confuse him


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## Touch Of Death (Jul 24, 2017)

Herm said:


> so my son recently started karate. The only teacher locally is a Goju Ryu teacher. My son wanted me to start taking it with him. I've been reluctant but finally gave in. His teacher doesn't remember me but he and I started karate in the 90s about the same time from a guy that just made up his system, but it won tournaments.  His teacher and I just got our 1 dan when I joined the Marines. Since then I got 2 dan in Shorin ryu and 1 dan in Shotokan. But haven't trained in about 12 years. Since trading in traditional systems I have always been taught to work off of the center line and that blocks are not even remotely blocks.  So I go to this class and he starts trashing my blocks and saying they won't work and they'll never stop anything. Then proceeds to tell me that I was wrong and in Okinawa shorin looks like goju. My first shorin ryu teacher was an Okinawan and he taught never cross centerline and nearly everything is about 45 degree angle.
> My sons teacher professes a 7 dan and is not 50 yet. How can I tactfully express the validity of what I know without calling him out on what he doesn't know


Good luck getting anyone to just accept that you know, and I am interested in reading some of the responses.  If you want your son to know what this guy knows, great, but you may not be doing your kid any favors, if you are saying different things than his teacher.


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## hoshin1600 (Jul 24, 2017)

You said you went to the class, does that mean you are taking lessons from the guy? Or you were having a discussion with the teacher ? I am a little confused on the situation.
Either way the previous posts may be harsh but accurate.
You may not like it but you need to look in the mirror and understand that what your trying to do is validate your own self worth. You see this guy that you both started together but he has a higher rank and a position as a teacher and you dont.  Your letting your ego get the best of you.
This off line vs 45 degree blocking, your blocks are no good,,,,it's all a bunch of theoretical BS. It means nothing.  Really. I mean it. For every opinion on crap like this I can find 10 masters that say just the opposite.  It's a just pissing contest, it's theoretical and means nothing. The real issue is your feelings of not being as good as him and or you have the need to been seen as equal to him.  You need to let it go.  If you or your son is going to train there you need to let your ego go and just follow the teaching or find somewhere else that you can accept that the guy is better than you and you or your son can learn without the ego getting in the way.


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## DaveB (Jul 24, 2017)

I don't know if inferiority is an issue but I concur with the advice.

You have no business telling this guy what he's doing wrong or how good your stuff is. As Hoshin says it's all b.s. anyway. 

The only valid means of one-uping an ma teacher is to beat him in sparring. So long as your not outright challenging him and just waiting to get a turn in class like everyone else that should be problem free (unless he's an ***).

But the point is your kid trains there. Any waves you make could affect him, even if it's just to embarrass him. Get over yourself and let your not have fun.


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## hoshin1600 (Jul 24, 2017)

i want to add that my intention is not to demean you or say that you are wrong in anyway. i am aware that many of the posts may sound like that, but that is not my intention.  the instructor is just as much at fault.  a thoughtful teacher when confronted with an experienced person will look at what that person is saying and doing and reply with something like "oh yeah thats good stuff, i learned something different, so that is what i teach"  it is up to the student whether or not he absorbs the new way and thinking.
what is happening is a mental battle for dominance.  the teacher by saying other peoples stuff is crap is only his immature way of trying to show dominance.  however by right, it is his school.  it is just a poor way of handling the situation, he could be more tactful and not invalidating what others do and how they train.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Jul 24, 2017)

Was he trashing your blocks in a disrespectful way, or just saying that's not how we do things here? Either way, I see three options for you:

1. Continue doing the blocks the way that you want, and challenge him on it consistently.
2. Change the way that you block, to the way that he wants you to.
3. Leave the school.

The first option would probably cause issues between you and him, and possibly cause issues with your son. The second option would let your son continue training with you, but requires you to swallow a bit of pride, and possibly put up with a bit of abuse from the instructor (depending on how he was acting). Third option would disengage you from the situation.

IMO, the second option would probably be the best, but I personally would take the third option because I know myself, and I know eventually I would end up challenging him on his attitudes and make things worse (assuming he was being disrespectful to you...if he was just informing you "we block like this instead", I would have no issues, and just learn to block that way). So I would leave the school, to prevent me from acting on my temper, and making things worse for my son, but that's something you have to decide knowing your own temper and pride/humility.


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## Headhunter (Jul 24, 2017)

kempodisciple said:


> Was he trashing your blocks in a disrespectful way, or just saying that's not how we do things here? Either way, I see three options for you:
> 
> 1. Continue doing the blocks the way that you want, and challenge him on it consistently.
> 2. Change the way that you block, to the way that he wants you to.
> ...


Personally I'd take the second option to an extent. By that I mean Id change the way I block in class but I wouldn't forget my original way. In fact I've done that numerous times. That way I've got tools in my tool box


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Jul 24, 2017)

Headhunter said:


> Personally I'd take the second option to an extent. By that I mean Id change the way I block in class but I wouldn't forget my original way. In fact I've done that numerous times. That way I've got tools in my tool box


Same, I've already had to do that with other things (sweeps and basic punch for instance). But, if my instructor was being diminutive to me/my experience, especially in front of the class or my family members, that is when I know I would not be able to handle it long term.


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## Herm (Jul 24, 2017)

hoshin1600 said:


> i want to add that my intention is not to demean you or say that you are wrong in anyway. i am aware that many of the posts may sound like that, but that is not my intention.  the instructor is just as much at fault.  a thoughtful teacher when confronted with an experienced person will look at what that person is saying and doing and reply with something like "oh yeah thats good stuff, i learned something different, so that is what i teach"  it is up to the student whether or not he absorbs the new way and thinking.
> what is happening is a mental battle for dominance.  the teacher by saying other peoples stuff is crap is only his immature way of trying to show dominance.  however by right, it is his school.  it is just a poor way of handling the situation, he could be more tactful and not invalidating what others do and how they train.


I took no offense to your other post. I sometimes explain things poorly when I have to write it. It was not about ego on my part. When we were doing basics he never said that there were differences in basic techniques. I have no problem learning new ways. It is that he was trying to embarrass me in front of the class that I had a problem with. When I taught I always respected experienced students and built off of their background.


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## Herm (Jul 24, 2017)

kempodisciple said:


> Was he trashing your blocks in a disrespectful way, or just saying that's not how we do things here? Either way, I see three options for you:
> 
> 1. Continue doing the blocks the way that you want, and challenge him on it consistently.
> 2. Change the way that you block, to the way that he wants you to.
> ...


It was in a very disrespectful way. Instead of telling me that in his school we do things differently he chose to belittle me and try to embarrass me in front of the class. I've got know problem doing it his way if he tells me there is a difference instead of letting me go then saying what I do doesn't work.


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## Herm (Jul 24, 2017)

kempodisciple said:


> Same, I've already had to do that with other things (sweeps and basic punch for instance). But, if my instructor was being diminutive to me/my experience, especially in front of the class or my family members, that is when I know I would not be able to handle it long term.


It's ok I showed up early today and we had a two way class. I let him know that I did not appreciate the way he handled things last week. We demonstrated for each other the differences in our backgrounds and he understands now that I am not a beginner and muscle memory is hard to override even if it's been a while. I showed him some applications that I was taught for blocks and wound up helping him teach some bunkai in the adult class.


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## Buka (Jul 25, 2017)

Welcome to MartialTalk, Herm.


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## Bill Mattocks (Jul 25, 2017)

Isshinryu is the answer you seek.


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## Oldbear343 (Jul 29, 2017)

Headhunter said:


> Personally I'd take the second option to an extent. By that I mean Id change the way I block in class but I wouldn't forget my original way. In fact I've done that numerous times. That way I've got tools in my tool box


Agreed.  Many teachers have different variations....


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