# Do the Xkan discrimanate puertoricans?



## alahan kumori (Apr 15, 2013)

Hi, well i make this  question just o inform my classmates about how hard is for puertoricans to join to xkans mainly to the genbukan. some friends had to join nindo ryu or in my case to dux ryu just beacuse no one teaches xkan here and no one answere the petitions to join in the states, so is there my question, "there is discrimination to puertoricans?" we see theres a lot of countryes who have a lot of dojos but here not here. hope just be a wrong peception. please some take me out of this doubt.
thank you.


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## arnisador (Apr 15, 2013)

I doubt it's that. Many U.S. schools in all arts were initially started by those who had trained abroad (often in the military) then moved back home.


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## Inazuma (Apr 16, 2013)

The Jinenkan welcomes anyone coming to train with a good heart.  As one of the small group of Jinenkan Dojo Cho in the world, I've never personally been contacted by anyone in Puerto Rico.  I would be surprised if any of my peers failed to respond to someone reaching out seeking training as well.


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## Tony Dismukes (Apr 16, 2013)

You seem a little confused about how a specific martial art arrives in a specific geographic area.  Generally it happens in one of two ways.

1) Someone from that area travels to a place where the art is taught, trains in it, and then returns back home to share the art. Sometimes they have achieved instructor status.  Other times they have learned just enough to start a training club that can sponsor regular visits from a qualified teacher.
2) A practitioner of the art moves from their home to the new area, typically for employment or family reasons, and shares the art upon their arrival.

If any particular martial art or organization has no representation in Puerto Rico, then it is because neither of those things has yet happened.  If someone in Puerto Rico really wants to train in one of the X-Kans, then their best bet is to travel to some place where the training is available.  Afterwards they can bring back the knowledge and share it.  That's how Bujinkan training reached the U.S., Israel, Europe, and Australia.  When I started training in the Bujinkan almost 30 years ago, I was living in Baltimore and the only U.S. dojos were in Dayton and Atlanta.  I joined a local training club where we would alternate between driving eight hours each way to Dayton for training and sponsoring teachers to come to Baltimore for seminars.  That's how an art spreads.

I'm not sure what you mean by "no one answere the petitions to join in the states."  Can you clarify?  What sort of "petitions" are you talking about?  Generally, joining those organizations has to do with showing up and training, not sending letters.


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## Chris Parker (Apr 16, 2013)

alahan kumori said:


> Hi, well i make this  question just o inform my classmates about how hard is for puertoricans to join to xkans mainly to the genbukan. some friends had to join nindo ryu or in my case to dux ryu just beacuse no one teaches xkan here and no one answere the petitions to join in the states, so is there my question, "there is discrimination to puertoricans?" we see theres a lot of countryes who have a lot of dojos but here not here. hope just be a wrong peception. please some take me out of this doubt.
> thank you.



Hmm. Firstly, no, there isn't any "discrimination"... the detail that there aren't any dojo just means there aren't any dojo... which means that there likely isn't anyone from Puerto Rico who have travelled to Japan (or any other location with a teacher), learnt enough, and returned to open a school. You might as well ask if there's discrimination against America in the Yagyu Shingan Ryu, as there aren't any schools there either...

Next, I'm sure you realize, but Nindo Ryu and Dux's system aren't Ninjutsu... and have no real connection to the arts, or even to Japanese arts, when it all comes down to it. I'm not sure what "petition" you're talking about, but the hard reality is that, for there to be a school, there needs to be a qualified instructor. So a petition isn't really what's needed, it's someone who is willing (and able) to travel to learn it in the first place, in order to bring it back.

I have, however, found a Bujinkan school in Puerto Rico.. they teach it alongside a modern invented (non-Japanese) version as well, so it's really a case of buyer-beware... but here it is:http://coamokamatsudojo.tripod.com/

Oh, and I don't want to jump to too many conclusions, but can I ask where you take your user name from? It's rather reminicient of another (former) member here... which would not be a good association, bluntly.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Apr 16, 2013)

NO!  Just like was said above.  If you want to train in the Bujinkan or any XKan find a dojo whether near or far and travel to it!  Get accepted and you are in.  Chris found one in Puerto Rico but if you do not like that one nothing is stopping you from traveling abroad to find one and train in an XKan.


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## EWBell (Apr 22, 2013)

If you contact the Genbukan they will be glad to make a recommendation on what you can do about training.  To say they are are against Puerto Ricans is just flat out wrong.  Being as there is not currently a Genbukan dojo there means you would have to do some travelling to train, but if it is something you really want then you can find a way.  Many people travel very long distances to receive training.   Heck, my instructor has to go to Japan for his.


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## Pesk00 (May 15, 2013)

Greetings gentlemen, allow me to shed some light onto this thread. Pardon my English though.

First of all, no, I don´t believe there is discrimination against puertorricans in the X-kans. There should not be, and I´d  pretty disappointed if there ever was. Given the number Bujinkan dojos all around the world, and the number of puertoricans around the world especially in the states, I´d say there must probably be some puertorican training in some Bujinkan school based on statistical probability.

As for X-kans Puerto Rico, well&#8230; you can find some out-dated info on http://www.ninjutsu.com/dojos-links_world.shtml .


As a matter of fact, I am a 7-year longtime student of Shihan Miguel Camacho. Miguel has trained in the martial arts since a very early age and developed a strong foundation in the arts of Shorinji Kempo (4[SUP]th[/SUP] dan) and Ed Parker´s American Kempo (7[SUP]th[/SUP] dan). He then later traveled to the US and studied Ninjutsu with Stephen K. Hayes (Shadows of Iga) and then with Robert Bussey´s Warrior International. After coming back he formed a group (Kamatsu dojo) which practiced at the University Of Puerto Rico (Recinto de Ponce). The dojo that Chris suggested is the Coamo branch from one of his Shidoshis and oldest students; it is localized in the southern area of the island.

During the 80s, however, Miguel wasn´t very satisfied with the changes in the Bujinkan and the way the organization was headed; believing that the actual training was being watered down in order to make it more accessible to the masses and thus making more money, along with some other differences within. So he started doing his own thing and after receiving Mekyo Kaiden he officially founded the Kamatsu Ryu Ninjutsu.

This style differs from the traditional Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu mainly because it emphasizes on real-time self defense methods in a modern street fighting context. Ideally speaking, Kamatsu is the clash between the old and the new; the ancient concepts, philosophy, approaches to battle and techniques of the arts taught in the Bujinkan and the methods (striking techniques, drills), concepts (such as action-reaction, body mechanics) of Kempo. The result is a very effective and aggressive (the ¨Ka¨ in KAmatsu allures to the fire element) martial art in the modern street context.

So to clarify: our teacher is certified in the Bujinkan but his students are not, they are certified by him in Kamatsu Ryu Ninpo. We are a Bujinkan based-school but we are independent of that organization, although we follow the Tenchijin Ryaku No Maki there is much more to the curriculum that comes from all the martial arts knowledge that Anshu has deemed useful. The arts are not taught in the traditional Budo Taijutsu methods. We are a ninjutsu school who also emphasize on randori and sparring. 

Currently he is teaching to a very small group of select students in the metropolitan area, including myself. Since we don&#8217;t have a physical dojo, at the moment we are only reuniting once a week with him at a local park (hopefully this might change this year as we get an indoor dojo). Because of this condition, we are not really promoting the school or looking for new students. Ever since I´ve been involved with the school, Anshu has never charged us for the classes or the practice itself, the only charges come for the exams or some seminars and they are truly minimal. He does not live out of this and in order for him to teach you, you just got to go talk to him and express a genuine interest in the art.


With that being said, let me touch a bit onto the ¨Ninjutsu¨ scene here in Puerto Rico (or shall I say ¨Ninjitsu¨, as some of the schools like to call themselves). First I wish to point out that these are my words and my own opinion and should not be taken as my schools nor my teachers´. There are a lot of different schools on the island that claim to teach Ninjutsu, in fact, a few years ago (2007 if I´m not mistaken) the masters of each school gathered and decided to form what was called the ¨Puerto Rico Ninja Society¨ (which was later called the ¨World Ninjutsu Federation¨, when Anshu Christa Jacobson got involved), the original purpose was to do summits and tai kais, seminars, etc. 

Thing is, there were about 7 or 8 ninjutsu schools, amongst them were the infamous Nindo-Ryu and Dux Ryu Ninjutsu (both claiming a Koga Ryu lineage), other invented styles like Nieves Ryu, Arishi-Ki Ryu, and a few others. For someone who has practiced ninjutsu and has had a lifelong experience in the martial arts, it was really easy to tell that a lot of the masters were really trained in other martial arts such as Karate, Jujutsu, Aikijutsu and even Kung Fu, and may have only took some minimal training in some X-kan seminars or videos, but then put some tabis on and decided to open a ninjutsu school. My teacher has politely asked a few times to the other masters to show evidence of their ninjutsu background and only one of them did (evidence of having trained in the Bujinkan), we are still waiting on all the others. I know my master´s training in the arts is legit, since he has shown us the certificates (they were all written in Japanese characters so I really wouldn´t know sh°t lol).


I´m now over that stuff though, I just wish everyone all the best with their school. All I know is we just have to keep training and dedicate ourselves to the arts and see where that takes us all.


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## gapjumper (May 16, 2013)

Pesk00 said:


> During the 80s, however, Miguel wasn´t very satisfied with the changes in the Bujinkan and the way the organization was headed; believing that the actual training was being watered down in order to make it more accessible to the masses and thus making more money, along with some other differences within. So he started doing his own thing and after receiving Mekyo Kaiden he officially founded the Kamatsu Ryu Ninjutsu.



We've heard that story from lots of people. Generally because they wanted to make money. And/or as in this case apparently, set themselves up as Soke of a fictional ryu-ha. "Started doing his own thing" usually means he thought he knew enough...

What did he get menkyo kaiden in exactly?



Pesk00 said:


> This style differs from the traditional Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu mainly because it emphasizes on real-time self defense methods in a modern street fighting context. Ideally speaking, Kamatsu is the clash between the old and the new; the ancient concepts, philosophy, approaches to battle and techniques of the arts taught in the Bujinkan and the methods (striking techniques, drills), concepts (such as action-reaction, body mechanics) of Kempo. The result is a very effective and aggressive (the ¨Ka¨ in KAmatsu allures to the fire element) martial art in the modern street context.



No. It differs as in HIS sounds like the "watered down" version.




Pesk00 said:


> So to clarify: our teacher is certified in the Bujinkan but his students are not, they are certified by him in Kamatsu Ryu Ninpo. We are a Bujinkan based-school but we are independent of that organization, although we follow the Tenchijin Ryaku No Maki there is much more to the curriculum that comes from all the martial arts knowledge that Anshu has deemed useful. The arts are not taught in the traditional Budo Taijutsu methods. We are a ninjutsu school who also emphasize on randori and sparring.



Does he still have an in-date shidoshikai card?

Who is Anshu? I'm thinking this has come from Toshindo.




Pesk00 said:


> Thing is, there were about 7 or 8 ninjutsu schools, amongst them were the infamous Nindo-Ryu and Dux Ryu Ninjutsu (both claiming a Koga Ryu lineage), other invented styles like Nieves Ryu, Arishi-Ki Ryu, and a few others. For someone who has practiced ninjutsu and has had a lifelong experience in the martial arts, it was really easy to tell that a lot of the masters were really trained in other martial arts such as Karate, Jujutsu, Aikijutsu and even Kung Fu, and may have only took some minimal training in some X-kan seminars or videos, but then put some tabis on and decided to open a ninjutsu school. My teacher has politely asked a few times to the other masters to show evidence of their ninjutsu background and only one of them did (evidence of having trained in the Bujinkan), we are still waiting on all the others. I know my master´s training in the arts is legit, since he has shown us the certificates (they were all written in Japanese characters so I really wouldn´t know sh°t lol).



BUt why do you see yourselves as any different or better than these people? You said earlier that your "ninjutsu" has kempo etc mixed in and other things which your teacher has trained in the past.

And as you say you have seen his certs but cannot read them...how do you know it's not a Swimming Certificate?


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## Chris Parker (May 16, 2013)

Gapjumper has covered most of the issues nicely, but a few things to add.



gapjumper said:


> We've heard that story from lots of people. Generally because they wanted to make money. And/or as in this case apparently, set themselves up as Soke of a fictional ryu-ha. "Started doing his own thing" usually means he thought he knew enough...



Not always the case, but common enough to have merit...



gapjumper said:


> What did he get menkyo kaiden in exactly?



Exactly my question... as far as I know, no Westerner has gotten Menkyo Kaiden in any Ryu from Hatsumi. 



gapjumper said:


> No. It differs as in HIS sounds like the "watered down" version.



Certainly modified... whether we can say either is "watered down" compared to the other, I'm less sure.



gapjumper said:


> Does he still have an in-date shidoshikai card?
> 
> Who is Anshu? I'm thinking this has come from Toshindo.



Well, there's mention of Christa Jacobson as well.... I'm thinking it's more just following the pack there (Hayes, then Christa, now this "founder of Kamatsu Ryu"...)



gapjumper said:


> BUt why do you see yourselves as any different or better than these people? You said earlier that your "ninjutsu" has kempo etc mixed in and other things which your teacher has trained in the past.



Good question.



gapjumper said:


> And as you say you have seen his certs but cannot read them...how do you know it's not a Swimming Certificate?


 
And yet another one. No point repeating it, just adding that I'm interested in the answers myself....


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## Pesk00 (May 16, 2013)

Yeah, I agree it&#8217;s the same ol story, especially when it&#8217;s mostly from people who trained in the Bujinkan in the early years, right? I&#8217;m sure everyone has heard the stories from many people saying how training back then was &#8220;much tougher&#8221; or the techniques done in a more realistic manner or the teaching method being very different from what it is now. Well it&#8217;s pretty much that same story and that is what I meant by &#8220;watered down&#8221; (it might not be the best term to use though). I am, of course, speaking in general.


If he &#8220;thought he knew enough&#8217;&#8217; because he did his own thing, well then I guess you could make that case for pretty much everyone who has started a different approach (or formed his own school or organization) than Hatsumi. 

Personally, I find it kind of futile arguing too much about this &#8216;watered down&#8217; because at the heart of it, it&#8217;s just a matter of different opinions and perceptions. 


I thought I was clear enough stressing that our teacher doesn&#8217;t charge us for classes or the actual teaching; in more than 25 years he&#8217;s barely made a penny out of this. Plus I never said he is the Soke of a &#8220;fictional ryu-ha&#8221;, he is the founder of his own system, and hence the title of Anshu. Again: the system is based on the training he had with Hayes and Bussey&#8217;s warrior international and other martial arts, more noticeably Kempo. We are not claiming any ancient lineage or anything of that sort; and from what I&#8217;ve been reading for last few years, that weight has been on Hatsumi himself, I believe. But we don't have to go into that now.


Now, as for the Menkyo Kaiden claim I&#8217;ll admit I was talking a bit out of my a*s there while rewriting the story, as I can&#8217;t really recall my teacher stating that, but I&#8217;m pretty sure I must&#8217;ve read somewhere and had understood that you receive Menkyo Kaiden once you achieve the 10[SUP]th[/SUP] dan rank. Even so, you guys probably know better about ranking and stuff than I do, so my bad and I stand corrected. However I&#8217;ll look for the chance to ask him personally about the meaning of menkyo kaiden. He does has expressed that at some point he felt he wasn&#8217;t really learning anything valuable (to him) anymore and that it all turned to business. A very expensive one at that.


Why are we any different from the other schools around claiming to teach ninjutsu? Like I said, how can you claim to teach an art in which you are not willing to present your peers any evidence on the training, or if you do, it&#8217;s on arts that claim lineage that don&#8217;t exist or are considered fake? Yes, there are Kempo elements in the art being taught, but this does not mean it is a school that teaches various styles simultaneously. The whole purpose of Anshu was to create a whole, integrated system comprehending much of his martial arts experience that would be a better fit to handling real-life situations (i.e. street assaults in the actual puertorican context). 


In our style you can experience a lot of the techniques applied in a different manner, for instance, the concept of distance is worked very differently than that of the usual Bujinkan schools. First you learn practicality and how to defend yourself, and then you may learn the more traditional stuff and the abstract concepts, further weaponry training, etc. In our view that is what what makes a martial art live and organic, one that is useful to you in any situation, but especially in times of conflict.

Swimming certificates? lol I&#8217;ll take that as an insult to human intelligence. I did a google search to better illustrate what I&#8217;m saying, and all I can say they looked a lot like the ones in these pics:

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mdtp06Ov5e1r3vsv9o1_500.jpg

http://www.kagedojoninjutsu.com/USERIMAGES/Shidoshi Certificate(2).jpg 

Let me tell you a bit about how I feel about Bujinkan and Hatsumi (I think I&#8217;m more or less speaking for our school&#8217;s take on the matter as well) and ask you guys a couple questions. I want your opinions and not what somebody said or what is understood by most people, for this for the sake of discussion and to better allow me to put my own thoughts in perspective.

We respect Hatsumi, but we do not worship him. Most people in the Bujinkan nowadays has made it all look like a sect, where everything he says is taken as a literal final word and every decision is agreed upon unanimously. Most even do their best to try copy his movement, and it looks real unnatural in most people.   I´m sure most here would agree that techniques should be lively things that adapt to each user in a different way. I&#8217;m sure everybody here is aware that Hatsumi himself was trained in various other martial arts before he underwent training with Takamatsu. Do you think he didn&#8217;t had any preconceived notions on the martial arts which were inherently embedded to the stuff Takamatsu taught him?  Would  you honestly say he was able to completely &#8220;empty his cup&#8221; at almost 30 years old and absorb everything as Takamatsu meant to?

I think probably not, because &#8220;emptying your cup&#8221; is practically not possible and is intended more as a zen &#8216;riddle&#8217;. Anytime you find yourself thinking you&#8217;re training in martial arts, or in traditional Japanese martial arts or in whatever new ryu you are learning, you are doing so with some preconceived notions of what the martial arts already mean to you. So the way you move, the way you flow, the ideas and approaches you put in each situation will be affected by this. It is very similar to the art of translating books from two very different languages; the translator may do a conscious effort to be as objective as possible but at the unconscious level, the moment he tries to write down his understanding, it already has his influence on it and will be inherently transmitted into the new translation.

Where I am going with this? Well, that everybody approaches a style or a technique in the best way they can, according to their own understanding of the martial arts first and foremost. That does not necessarily mean it&#8217;s an invalid, invented style; it might just be the integration or internalization of various martial arts with one&#8217;s own martial arts knowledge.


I summary: Our school is not the best place to learn Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu, and that is because what you are learning is Kamatsu, the martial art ´invented´ by our teacher which obviously has a lot of bujinkan stuff in it. To say there is no one in the island who has trained and achieved higher rankings in the x-kans is false.

I apologize for the walls of text, but I seem to enjoy writing somewhat.


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## Mauthos (May 17, 2013)

I know this is a little off topic but never having trained in ninjitsu and only have exposure to the style through a friend of mine that learnt from Hayes, could you explain the difference, if there is any, between ninjitsu and taijitsu, that I have also seen mentioned in this thread.  Thanks.


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## jks9199 (May 17, 2013)

Ninjutsu/Budo Taijutsu & Related arts descriptions


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## Chris Parker (May 17, 2013)

Mauthos said:


> I know this is a little off topic but never having trained in ninjitsu and only have exposure to the style through a friend of mine that learnt from Hayes, could you explain the difference, if there is any, between ninjitsu and taijitsu, that I have also seen mentioned in this thread.  Thanks.



Hmm, to expand on, well, myself (linked by JKS there...), there's a few things to clarify. Firstly, spelling: "Jutsu", never "Jitsu". In all Japanese arts.

From there, we need to look at definitions. To begin with, Ninjutsu.

Ninjutsu, as a term, has a couple of different meanings/interpretations/usages. One is historical, the other is more modern, really. Speaking historically, ninjutsu refers to a range of skills based around espionage, sabotage, information gathering, and the like, and is not really anything to do with physical combative skills. What exactly is entailed can vary from system to system, but (as a general rule), most systems that have a ninjutsu aspect have it as a minor study within a larger curriculum (such as Yagyu Shinkage Ryu, or Tenshinsho Den Katori Shinto Ryu). As a modern term, it is used to refer to martial arts related to, or deriving from the areas of Iga or Koga, and contains a variety of aspects. It is largely used to refer (as a general, overarching term) to arts taught within the Bujinkan, Jinenkan, and Genbukan organizations, as well as split-off organizations to larger or lesser degrees.

The other term (Taijutsu) pretty literally means "body art", and typically refers to unarmed combative techniques. It is, however, not exclusive to, nor unique to the Ninjutsu-related systems... Aikidoka are known to refer to their unarmed methods as Taijutsu on occasion, and a number of classical systems (such as Asayama Ichiden Ryu) call their unarmed combat techniques "Taijutsu" as well.

So what's the difference? Well, it depends on how you're using it, really. You might use the term "Ninjutsu" to refer to any and or all physical skills within the modern organizations, in which case Taijutsu is just a subset (and, in the Bujinkan, it's the emphasis). Or you might be using the term "Ninjutsu" to refer to the specific espionage skills... in which case, they're completely separate.


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## Aiki Lee (May 18, 2013)

Pesk00 said:


> Yeah, I agree its the same olstory, especially when its mostly from people who trained in the Bujinkan inthe early years, right? Im sure everyone has heard the stories from manypeople saying how training back then was much tougher or the techniques donein a more realistic manner or the teaching method being very different fromwhat it is now. Well its pretty much that same story and that is what I meantby watered down (it might not be the best term to use though). I am, ofcourse, speaking in general.


Before I begin, you should probably know Im not a memberof any of the X-kans.
Well, actually Im a member of a kan yes, but not oneyouve ever heard of. I belong to a split off group like you do and haveconnections to To Shin Do like you as well.
I see where you are coming from with the abovecomment. The bujinkan has gotten a poor rep for attacking unrealistically andlooking pretty sloppy, but Im not sure if that is the organizations fault orthe fault of people thinking they know enough and break away to be big shots intheir own dojo. Maybe a little of both.




Pesk00 said:


> If he thought he knew enoughbecause he did his own thing, well then I guess you could make that case forpretty much everyone who has started a different approach (or formed his ownschool or organization) than Hatsumi.


I certainly believe people can do their own thing inregard to martial arts once they have obtained reasonable skill, full masteryof the entire system may not be required, but one should still have anexceptional level of skill before starting off on their own as I feel thefounders of my organization were and how you must surely feel about yourinstructor. 


Pesk00 said:


> Personally, I find it kind offutile arguing too much about this watered down because at the heart of it,its just a matter of different opinions and perceptions.


 
A difference of opinion is fine so long as it is based intrue understanding of something. Changes shouldnt be made willy-nilly, butthere is a distinction to be made between doing something differently and doingsomething poorly.




Pesk00 said:


> We respect Hatsumi, but we do not worship him. Mostpeople in the Bujinkan nowadays has made it all look like a sect, whereeverything he says is taken as a literal final word and every decision isagreed upon unanimously.


Well, he _is_soke. That means he can pretty much do whatever he wants with the ryu-ha he issoke over. If he wants to make changes he can, and as the leader of theorganization he can do whatever he wants as well. So if anyone wants to remaina part of his organization and maintain that unbroken supposed connection tothe ryu-ha then they have to do whatever he says, whether one thinks its agood idea or not.



Pesk00 said:


> Most even do their best to try copyhis movement, and it looks real unnatural in most people. I´m sure most herewould agree that techniques should be lively things that adapt to each user ina different way.



Most people want to move like their teachers. I want tomove like mine, and you want to move like yours. If we didnt we train undersomeone else. I think the problem is that people copy what they think Hatsumiis doing without actually knowing what hes doing. Mimicry of movement is notenough, there needs to be understanding of how, why and when you move that way.

Techniques will be adapted to some degree simply due tosize differences but thats mostly just changing the degrees of the angles ofmovements. Principles shouldnt change or else you are doing a new techniquenot modifying an existing one. For example, musha dori and kata maki look verysimilar but have enough differences in them that you can claim they aredifferent techniques although they would look the same to someone unfamiliarwith either of them.



Pesk00 said:


> Im sure everybody here is awarethat Hatsumi himself was trained in various other martial arts before heunderwent training with Takamatsu. Do you think he didnt had any preconceivednotions on the martial arts which were inherently embedded to the stuffTakamatsu taught him? Would you honestly say he was able to completely emptyhis cup at almost 30 years old and absorb everything as Takamatsu meant to?



It is vitally important when training in a differentmartial art to leave at the door your past experiences. My father has a 7[SUP]th[/SUP]dan in isshin ryu karate, but when he came to my teachers dojo he put on awhite belt and forgot all his karate training at the door, because what isgood in karate is not necessarily good in aiki ninjutsu. Different systems anddifferent concepts.

One can certainly incorporate useful elements intowhat you personally want to do. I see some aiki influence in some of Hatsumismovements personally, but unless it is time to explore ideas in training youshould always stick with what the instructor is doing. If you dont agree withwhat he is doing and want to do something else, then he is probably not theinstructor for you.



Pesk00 said:


> I think probably not, becauseemptying your cup is practically not possible and is intended more as a zenriddle.





I strongly disagree.



Emptying your cup is about letting go of pre-existingideas and being open to new possibilities. It is not a zen riddle to me; it ispractical advice. Its suppose to get you to look at something differently.



Pesk00 said:


> Anytime you find yourself thinkingyoure training in martial arts, or in traditional Japanese martial arts or inwhatever new ryu you are learning, you are doing so with some preconceivednotions of what the martial arts already mean to you. So the way you move, theway you flow, the ideas and approaches you put in each situation will beaffected by this. It is very similar to the art of translating books from twovery different languages; the translator may do a conscious effort to be asobjective as possible but at the unconscious level, the moment he tries towrite down his understanding, it already has his influence on it and will beinherently transmitted into the new translation.




I think it is impossible to completely neglect whatyou have already learned but, it is important to actually do what you aresupposed to be doing in the dojo and not doing what you _want_ to do in the dojo. I currently train two martial arts. Aikininjutsu and aikido. Both are similar but have major differences. Skills pickedup in one art are still useful in the other but I cant change one into theother without compromising the other arts concepts. There are similartechniques and there is an aikido way to do it and an aiki ninjutsu way to doit. Though I would ultimately prefer one way over the other, I should practiceboth the way they are supposed to be practiced as separate approaches or else Imnot doing those arts, Im bastardizing them.






Pesk00 said:


> Where I am going with this? Well,that everybody approaches a style or a technique in the best way they can,according to their own understanding of the martial arts first and foremost.That does not necessarily mean its an invalid, invented style; it might justbe the integration or internalization of various martial arts with ones ownmartial arts knowledge.


Everyone might do things slightly differently, buteven though there will be slight deviation from the text book example theyshouldnt be so different you cant see the unifying principles of the art.Karate should still be karate, aikido should be aikido, and ninjutsu should beninjutsu. Altering them too much changes them to something else. Notnecessarily something bad or ineffective, its just different now.


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