# A long question about using what you have been taught.



## hemi (Dec 6, 2005)

This may have been asked before somewhere but I was unable to find anything real close so here goes.

Martial arts, in general have the ability to produce very dangerous people. I wont go into listing names of styles as there are many and all have something to offer good and bad. Im am not saying that in a bad way as it is not the art but more the person trained in any particular art that can be dangerous. When I use the word dangerous I am not talking about some guy that comes home to an empty house with a note on the table explaining that his wife left him for some one else. This same person then goes to a bar has a few drinks then pulls out a Glock and starts pulling the trigger and hurting people. No I am referring to a person that can go from your everyday mild mannered person to someone that can inflict serious damage unarmed very quickly like a well oiled machine. 

I know I took the long way around getting to my question I have never been accused of being a literary genus. So I will try and get to my question. I am for lack of a better word a non confrontational person. Thats not to say I will not fight but I would really rather not. Now I am new to Martial arts and over the last eight months I have learned a lot of good information. I am nowhere near where I want to be in training but it will take many years to acquire the knowledge I hope to learn. I am however not new to fighting. I am a little guy and have had to prove more than once I was better left alone. After getting hit a few times I learned to not block with my face and to keep my hands up. Could I hold my own against a 5th Dan, probably not very well, but that is not the kind of person that goes around looking for trouble. I am not very likely to be backed into a corner by a martial arts instructor at Wal-Mart because I bumped his cart. 

Using that as an example, life happens. How do you as martial artists handle the point of no return? Like I said I am pretty non confrontational I would rather walk away then beat someone down. But there were times when it really would have been better to just throw one punch and end a situation but I didnt for fear of legal trouble. I struggle with that a lot in my mind and in day to day life. At what point does it become imperative to use force and throw legal caution to the wind. I know sometimes a situation dictates that for us. If you are faced with a knife, gun, stick, some kind of weapon you have no choice in the matter. You just have to react fast you cant think about the, what if. Or if I am with my kids and someone does something stupid like try hurt or abduct one or both then yes I would kill or be killed defending them. But there are other times when force would be the best answer but I am hesitant to do so for fear of legal repercussions. 

Well to sum up my question I am asking as a new martial artist, how do you, as fellow martial artist know when it is justified to use what you have been taught? I know there are no 100% correct answers but this is something I think about a lot. Im sure that many of you have thought about this same thing.


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## Flying Crane (Dec 6, 2005)

I have been training for over 21 years.  I am very lucky in that I have never had to use my training to defend myself, or others.  There have been times when I would have been justified, but I prefer to talk or walk my way out of a bad situation.  On some occasions, I have run.  So far, that has worked for me.  Will it always work?  I hope so, but I know that I cannot count on it.  I will have to make that decision when the day comes.  In the meantime, I really really really dislike the idea of hurting someone, almost as much as I dislike the idea of being hurt myself.  One thing that has become clear in my years of training is what truly nasty things one person can do to another.  And I bet my perspective just scratches the surface.  

I guess I don't really have an answer for you, so I'm just sharing similar thoughts...


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## arnisador (Dec 6, 2005)

The longer I've trained, the more confident I've become in my abilities, and the less motivated I have been to use my martial arts skills on someone. It wouldn't prove much to me now whether I won or lost.


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## OnlyAnEgg (Dec 6, 2005)

I am of the mind that the Arts are designed for self-defence.  In a confrontational situation, I have always been able to de-escalate and walk away, no punches thrown.  If there were a time when it would come to blows; say, an all-out aggression against me, I would, for my own safety, attempt to stop my attacker by the least damaging means necessary.

As a Master once said, 

Do not kill if you can maim.
Do not maim if you can injure.
Do not injure if you can harm.
Do not harm if you can walk away​


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## rutherford (Dec 6, 2005)

As the other side of the discussion, it's good to have these thoughts now.  Thinking about it as a situation is developing is bad.  While you're thinking, you can also be dying.  So, it's important to be able to say, "Ahh, I've made too many mistakes and they have taken me to this point.  No backing out now."

The only fights where I've been beaten badly were ones where I considered walking away or tried to de-escalate after a smarter person would have realized the fight had already started.


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## MJS (Dec 6, 2005)

2004hemi said:
			
		

> This may have been asked before somewhere but I was unable to find anything real close so here goes.
> 
> Martial arts, in general have the ability to produce very dangerous people. I wont go into listing names of styles as there are many and all have something to offer good and bad. Im am not saying that in a bad way as it is not the art but more the person trained in any particular art that can be dangerous. When I use the word dangerous I am not talking about some guy that comes home to an empty house with a note on the table explaining that his wife left him for some one else. This same person then goes to a bar has a few drinks then pulls out a Glock and starts pulling the trigger and hurting people. No I am referring to a person that can go from your everyday mild mannered person to someone that can inflict serious damage unarmed very quickly like a well oiled machine.
> 
> ...


 
That certainly is a tough question, as everyone will have their own version of what they feel is correct.  We need to seriously use our best judgement and come up with a proper response.  This of course needs to be done fairly quick due to the fact that you're not going to have time to sit and analyze every little detail.  

However, there are questions you should be asking yourself.  Can this situation be defused by verbal skills?  Much better to talk your way out and avoid physical confrontations.  Can you leave the area?  If you have an 'out' why not use it?  Are there weapons?  Keeping a close eye on the person watching for potential movements for a concealed weapon.  Where is this situation unfolding?  Are there people around?  What time of the day is it?

Alot to remember? Absolutely!!  Go with your gut feeling, but again, be prepared to justify your actions.

Mike


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## tshadowchaser (Dec 6, 2005)

If violence has not started you may still have time to walk away or talk yourslef into a nonviolent situation.  If violence has started you need to defend yourslef (loved ones, etc.) to the best of your abilities


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## bignick (Dec 6, 2005)

*"I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is only temporary; the evil it does is permanent."
-Mohandas Gandhi*

I think this is a good guidline to live by...but at the same time, we all don't have Gandhi's convictions, and he also once said

*"It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of non-violence to cover impotence. Violence is any day preferable to impotence. There is hope for a violent man to become non-violent. There is no such hope for the impotent."
-Mohandas Gandhi*

Violence is an option, the last one for me, but that will be up to you.  Just remember that once you commit to physical force you need to end the situation with extreme prejudice.  If you or someone else escalates the situation to violence you need to end the situation as quickly as possible.  And depending on the situation make sure you're watching your back for a while because egos don't like to get stomped on.


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## ChineseKempoJerry (Dec 6, 2005)

Great question! Always answering this to my students. The more you learn about what creates situations the better you can steer away from them. When I was young I got into many fights because of my ego sometimes confused with pride. Put your tail between you legs and violence can be avoided.

"A viloent man shall die a violent death. This will be the essence of the teaching." (Chinese Proverb)

We learn to fight and in the long run we fight less.

Best Regards,

Sifu Jerry


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## AdrenalineJunky (Dec 6, 2005)

I've done Muay Thai for going on 13 years; and I have found that, the more I fight, the higher my ability to slip and evade strikes becomes. I can see when someone's going to throw a punch or a kick, or shoot (wrestling, not firearms), for that matter. It makes it easier to avoid altercations, or, in the alternative, to avoid being hurt too much.


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## BlackCatBonz (Dec 7, 2005)

if you can walk away....run.
if you can't.....you have to do what is needed in order for you to walk away.
the more confident you become in your abilities the less you will worry about it and the more aware you will be of situations to be avoided.


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## terryl965 (Dec 7, 2005)

In forty years of training I have never had to really defend myself from danger or my family but I know if push came to shove, I would be able to control any stituation that may happen. I.E. gun involve Turn and run.
Seriously most true to there Art have never been in a confitation they just know how to avoid things of this nature.
Terry


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## still learning (Dec 7, 2005)

Hello, The purpose of training is to build confidence in one self ,strenght and LEARN TO AVOID any situtions which will lead to violence.

This is the true purpose: To make you a good human being. If you do not understand this? Change teachers....

Martial arts is not about fighting/killling.....it can do that. We train to take it to any level in a fight. (escape,control and/or destroy)

BUT: Our main goal is to make you a better person to the world. 


......................fighting skills leads to peacefully skills.........life is short...Aloha


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## Brad Dunne (Dec 7, 2005)

There is another side to this coin, that should be interesting for discussion. So far, from the posts already given, no one gave the impression that the line of work involved being placed in harms way for the betterment of society or the nation. What do the folks that have already voiced an opinion feel about this venue? What do the folks who are in this line of work feel?


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## MJS (Dec 7, 2005)

Brad Dunne said:
			
		

> There is another side to this coin, that should be interesting for discussion. So far, from the posts already given, no one gave the impression that the line of work involved being placed in harms way for the betterment of society or the nation. What do the folks that have already voiced an opinion feel about this venue? What do the folks who are in this line of work feel?


 
When you say "Line of work" I'm assuming that you're talking about a LEO or security officer?  If thats the case, I would think that it would be best to adhere to the guidlines that they have in place.  Doing anything outside of protocol could result in problems.

Mike


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## tshadowchaser (Dec 7, 2005)

To protect and serve   i believe that is a saying of some of whom you are speaking and I also believe that force is a necessary evil in that line of work. As for the people who proudly serve our county in other parts of the world I know that force and deadly force is part of their job and that they must use it at times to help others and to keep themselves alive. I could hardly condemn them for protecting the country I live in.


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## Touch Of Death (Dec 7, 2005)

I would say that it is not so much about avoiding fights as it is picking and choosing what you will and won't die for. If you think that being made fun of is worth your life and the result it would have on your family if you were to meet your death, then throw that punch. When you think of how a person cheapens themselves with every insult or curse word, it really makes no sense to attack them. 
Sean


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## jdinca (Dec 9, 2005)

If you feel that you or someone else's life is in danger, well, that's what we train for. Take 'em out and hope you were right when the dust settles. Any situation less than that a true experienced martial artist should be able to avoid getting into in the first place or get out of it with with minimal use of force. Instigating something is only putting yourself out on a limb.


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