# Sombo vs Russian systems



## nbcdecon (Jun 16, 2002)

The Russian Systems have good material but they are a money trap. What they don't tell you is that Scott Sonnon trained with Mark Densberger and wasn't happy with his promotions in Russian Cambo and left Mark's Group. After Sonnon searched out the R.O.S.S system. Both Systema and R.O.S.S both have some decent material on thier tapes,but if you want Sombo as a sport or a Combat art I have steered away from these guys because if you want Military Sombo Contact Oleg T. he is user friendly and you get want you pay for with him. Mark Densberger for Russian Cambo Martin. Clarke for Combat Sombo. These are the fore fathers of what we should recognize of the Russian Martial arts.
www.fias.org


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## GouRonin (Jun 16, 2002)

Has done a few videos with Vlad and has also worked with him on numerous occassions. In fact I believe he is mentioned on the homepage as well.


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## Klondike93 (Jun 16, 2002)

Systema is not Sombo, military or sport. After training in it for the last 4 months I can't see it as a money trap either.





:asian:


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## RobP (Jun 19, 2002)

Can't speak for ROSS but I've no doubt of Vladimir Vasiliev's integrity and generosity.


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## GouRonin (Jun 19, 2002)

Oh man, Vlad has tons of integrity and generosity. I was down there today and he was generous enough to lay a beating on me. Bwah-ha-ha-ha!

Ok, seriously though, the guy has been phenomomal in helping me. I can't even begin to describe the things he does for students. The guy is truly a teacher's teacher but also he can teach newbies as well. Not a lot of people can do that.

I've dealt with Vlad on a business level as well and what I like is that when he says he'll do something he does. I have the highest respect for the guy and the people he produces.


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## arnisador (Jun 19, 2002)

Do you consider yourself principally a Sokoli Stalina/Systema practitioner now?


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## GouRonin (Jun 20, 2002)

I do.

However, I like to get around and as such I will train at any gym/school I can get fit into my time schedule.

Like maybe a certain WMAA pekiti tersa seminar...


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## arnisador (Jun 20, 2002)

> _Originally posted by GouRonin _
> 
> *I do.*



Quite a testament to your faith in the system I imagine. That's great--you seem really excited about it.


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## RMAX.tv (Aug 17, 2002)

Interesting that this forum should be posted on my forum...

Anyone that actually read my website information lists my entire biography (www.RMAX.tv/history2.html and www.RMAX.tv/sonnon.html) - including my history with American SOMBO and Russian Sambo.  I only have good words to say about Mark Densberger as a coach and friend.

As far as your detractions through heresay, I was the President of the association for Combat SOMBO in USA, and created the belt ranking system for it.  I was at that time a 2nd degree black belt instructor of American SOMBO, as well as USA SOMBO Coach.  I did not approve of the fact that I was asked to write "black belt instructor certificates" (up to 6th degree black belts) to people whom have never trained in American SOMBO, but because of their ranking in Judo and their positioning to influence the propagation of the sport were given rank.  I thought that this was the wrong path for American SOMBO and objected.  I was given the option of leaving my position as President, by the Board of Directors.  I did leave.

I chose to leave and pursue a deeper understanding of Classic Russian Sambo in Russia.  My departure left scars with some whom believed at the time that I turned my back on American SOMBO, especially with the FIAS President Josh Henson (since he that year created a mirror organization FIAS, Inc. after being voted out during an elections in Russia).

I spent another five years in Russian Sambo internationally, including serving as USA Sambo Coach, Chairman of the International Combat Sambo Commission for FIAS, Vice-president of the American Amateur Sambo Federation and Combat Sambo Chairman of the American Sambo Federation.  In 1999, FIAS Vice-president, Dr. Leonid Polyakov, presented me with the Distinguished Masters of Sport in Sambo.  I distanced myself from the SOMBO/Sambo politics because I was tired of the childish in-fighting and maneuvering that I swore would not infest the sport.  It was at that point that I decided to remove myself from the court intrigue and steer the way of ROSS which I had been studying for three years at that time, in Russia.

During my travels, I had the honor of meeting Coach Alexander Retuinskih (Distinguished Coach of Russia, Distinguished Master of Sports, Founder of ROSS - www.RMAX.tv/retuinskih.html) and began training with him in Russia in 1996.  I continue to return to train with him in Russia, and honor him as a coach and brother.

Anyone that reads www.RMAX.tv/history2.html and www.RMAX.tv/nature.html would EASILY gain the information that you claim remains withheld from the public.  Sambo is certainly NOT separate from Russian Martial Arts, just as the USSR is not separate from the history of Russia.  Chinese, Japanese, Indian, Mongol, Nordic and even American influences affected the development of ALL aspects of Russian Martial Arts.  NO culture lay inviolable.  That's just plain silly.  I intended to demonstrate this and share this understanding.  You claim I not only have not done this, but intend to do the opposite.  What nonsense is this?

Please refrain from spreading such lies.

I am EASILY accessible at sonnon@RMAX.tv or 770-956-9765.  If you have some problem with me, why not contact me directly?  I'll be happy to have you as a guest.

It is a great shame that a forum such as this follows the path of so many cultural martial traditions.  Don't you realize that what you now do continues the polemic?  If you want Russian Martial Arts to head a different path (if that's at all possible - look at SOMBO/Sambo), then discontinue your passing of heresay.  Use forums such as this one to gain a better understanding of the various traditions, their concepts and methods...  Understanding begets understanding.  And understanding begins with sincere questions.  There are plenty of enthusiasts from various traditions here with whom to interact.  Why not make your life a positive path, rather than a negative one?  There's enough stress in life, without making martial art into a daytime drama.

Scott Sonnon
RMAX Performance Solutions
www.RMAX.tv


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## GouRonin (Aug 17, 2002)

While many arts in Russia are labelled with the name _"Systema"_ the one most associated with the name _"Systema"_ in the the west is the style of _"Sokoli Stalina."_ This art is headed up by Mikhail Ryabko in Russia, and his most famous student Vladimir Vasiliev, in Canada.

I would hope that people do not confuse the seperate arts of Sombo/R.O.S.S. and Systema/Sokoli Stalina. They are not the same art although they share similarities.

Perhaps Mr. Lehmann and Mr. Sonnon would like to start a new thread and discuss the issues they might want to bring up.

:asian:


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## arnisador (Aug 17, 2002)

Welcome to the forum Mr. Sonnon. Thanks for sharing some info. about your system.


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## Zephyr (Aug 25, 2002)

I guess a thread like that first post is madatory in any internet environment.  But it doesnt make it any easier to take.  I would just say kindly, it is not accurate

ROSS enhances Sambo - it also rennovates it I believe.  ROSS and Sambo are parts of a greater system known collectively as Russian Martial Arts/RMA.  Of which, there are eight directions

Lets see..., ROSS is a turbo charged fuel injector for your approach to Sambo or Kung Fu or Karate or BJJ or whatever you do.  But its an injector that conserves fuel by enhancement of bio-mechanics.

ROSS give you many small changes in Principles and Methods and you win effortlessly.  This is one lesson of ROSS, in a very small nutshell of course.  (ultimate conservation of energy)

I've taken a look.  All the RMA/ROSS products and seminars are very reasonably priced and the instruction is absolutely top notch.  Some of the best I've ever encountered.

As in all things.  Make your own decision based on YOUR own experiences.  Only they will be true to you.  Needless to say, you will most assuredly get your monies worth and then some.


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## sweeper (Aug 28, 2002)

well I would like to point out that it's just one person's perspective and the reason it wasn't discussed more in depth is most likely a genneral lack of knowledge on sombo/ROSS on this board.


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