# Knife Use by Soldier in Iraq



## arnisador (May 8, 2004)

http://www.washingtontimes.com/functions/print.php?StoryID=20040503-115511-7092r



> One of his friends was dead, 12 others lay wounded and the four soldiers still left standing were surrounded and out of ammunition. So Salvadoran Cpl. Samuel Toloza said a prayer, whipped out his knife and charged the Iraqi gunmen.
> In one of the only known instances of hand-to-hand combat in the Iraq conflict, Cpl. Toloza stabbed several attackers swarming around a comrade. The stunned assailants backed away momentarily, just as a relief column came to the unit's rescue.


Picture:
http://images.washtimes.com/photos/full/20040503-104904-9389.jpg

Looks like a folder?


----------



## arnisador (Nov 1, 2005)

Has anyone heard of any other such uses of knives in the war?


----------



## mrhnau (Nov 1, 2005)

arnisador said:
			
		

> Looks like a folder?


 
definately. military issue? does not look like something standard. Very impressive though... they might have been out of ammo, but still had their weapons I presume. Thanks for sharing the story!

MrH


----------



## Brian R. VanCise (Nov 1, 2005)

Maybe that is El Salvadorian military issue! Then again, maybe
not. Definately looks like a good sized folder to me though!
You just never know when you are going to have to rely on 
your fourth or fifth option in combat! Certainly this soldier was
brave, motivated and took advantage of what he had on him!

Brian R. VanCise


----------



## Bigshadow (Nov 1, 2005)

Good story!  Thanks for sharing it!


----------



## CrankyDragon (Nov 1, 2005)

Dang! Audie Murphey reborn!!


----------



## KenpoTex (Nov 3, 2005)

CrankyDragon said:
			
		

> Dang! Audie Murphey reborn!!


Well I wouldn't go quite that far.  However, the guy does have a king-size set of cojones 

As far as the knife...To me it looks like some sort of hunting type folder (similar to the Buck 110/Schrade Cave bear) based on the brass bolsters but who knows?


----------



## Pacificshore (Nov 3, 2005)

That's the first I've heard of that story.  There are so many positive stories from Iraq that our media chooses not to share with the general public in my opinion.


----------



## shesulsa (Nov 3, 2005)

I'd like to read/hear more stories of knife use in the war as well.  It does not appear to be standard military issue and that blade is no longer than the span of his knuckles - what would you say, four inch blade?


----------



## Blindside (Nov 3, 2005)

How about knives on the end of your rifle?

--------------------------------------------
OUTNUMBERED British soldiers killed 35 Iraqi attackers in the Armys first bayonet charge since the Falklands War 22 years ago.

The fearless Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders stormed rebel positions after being ambushed and pinned down.

Despite being outnumbered five to one, they suffered only three minor wounds in the hand-to-hand fighting near the city of Amara.

The battle erupted after Land Rovers carrying 20 Argylls came under attack on a highway.

After radioing for back-up, they fixed bayonets and charged at 100 rebels using tactics learned in drills.
------------------------------------------------------------


----------



## arnisador (Nov 3, 2005)

Another great story! See also:
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15104


----------



## James Patrick (Nov 13, 2005)

As usual, though, the media is not 100% right. Knives and H2H has been used in the Iraq war, but as with most modern warfare, it doesn't happened often. There are plenty of other cases, so for the Wash. times to say that this is the only case is incorrect. I also know that there is a small initiative to try to get knife combat training as a regular part of the regimine for the Army, but who knows if the officers will allow it.

James


----------



## James Patrick (Nov 13, 2005)

shesulsa said:
			
		

> I'd like to read/hear more stories of knife use in the war as well. It does not appear to be standard military issue and that blade is no longer than the span of his knuckles - what would you say, four inch blade?


 
Most of the guys buy there own blades. The military doesn't issue much for blades anymore.

As for documented cases, I know that there are a hell of a lot of documented cases from trench warfare in WWI, and documented cases from WWII. Fairbairn had documented literally hundreds of cases from Shanghai. So, the info is out there, it is just a matter of finding it.

James


----------



## arnisador (Nov 13, 2005)

James Patrick said:
			
		

> I also know that there is a small initiative to try to get knife combat training as a regular part of the regimine for the Army



I hadn't heard this! I think it's a great idea.

Is it covered in SERE courses?


----------



## arnisador (Nov 13, 2005)

James Patrick said:
			
		

> Most of the guys buy there own blades. The military doesn't issue much for blades anymore.



Are bayonets still standard issue?



> As for documented cases, I know that there are a hell of a lot of documented cases from trench warfare in WWI, and documented cases from WWII. Fairbairn had documented literally hundreds of cases from Shanghai.



Yup, absolutely. W.E. Fairbairn took a researcher's mindset into this, and indeed there was data from both military and police sources.


----------



## teej (Dec 18, 2005)

In our business we are constantly told how hand to hand training is basically touched on as it is rarely used, emphasis being on firearms. Knife training falls even further down the ladder. 

Well last night I watched two reenactments with live interviews  that occurred with Marines in Iraq last year where it went hand to hand finishing with the Marine using his knife.

In the first instance, a 3 man team was clearing the downstair portion of a building. The lead Marine rounded a staircase corner at exactly the same time an insurgent did. They basically ran into each other and were too close for weapons. They went hand to hand in the stair well with the Marine taking the insurgent down. They struggle until the Marine drew his Marine fighting knife and stabbed the insurgent in the temple. [the interview never covered what the other two Marines were doing during this time.]

In the second instance. A three man sniper team ambushed a 4 man insurgent mortar team. Snipers took out the oldest insurgent. The other three ran out of town and down into a high grass marsh and hid in the tall reeds. The sniper team pursued and an insurgent in the grass shot one Marine. They returned fire taking the shooter out and I think tossed in a grenade. One of the Marine snipers then drew his knife [it looked like a tanto] and went into the water and high grass. He came upon one insurgent. The Marine slit the guys throat then drowned him.

This was a live recount with Marines that were there. Despite what the military says, urban combat is apparently close and personal.

God Bless our Troops and their familes!
Teej


----------



## arnisador (Jan 16, 2006)

http://www.strategypage.com/dls/articles/200611514144.asp

*What the Troops Buy With Their Own Money *



> American troops in Iraq are discovering, through combat experience, that more changes are needed in the type of weapons they should carry. As the U.S. Army Special Forces have discovered, if you are well trained and know what you are doing, you should carry a pistol, in addition to your rifle. But not the official issue 9mm pistol, but something with a bit more stopping power. The Special Forces prefer a new model .45 caliber (11.43mm) pistol, although 10mm weapons are also popular. The reason for this is that you are most likely to be using the pistol indoors, where your target is going to be really close. You want to knock him down quickly, before he can get at you with a knife, or even his hands. Many troops are getting their own pistols, and most commanders have been lenient on this issue. The same applies to shotguns. Although the army and marines have bought a lot of them (the Benelli M4 Combat Shotgun is a particular favorite), there never seem to be enough of them for some units (that spend a lot of time raiding buildings in hostile neighborhoods.)



http://www.usmc.mil/marinelink/mcn2000.nsf/main5/57887A9AF6EBA9C6852570EC005CC532?opendocument

*Veteran Marines reveal best gear for deployment
*



> -Personal knives &#8220;fit almost anywhere and are good for easy access, compared to the issued bayonet that&#8217;s long and bulky.&#8221;


http://www.pahrumpvalleytimes.com/2006/01/13/news/home.html

*Law enforcement in a lawless, violent country *



> The main distinction in how law enforcement is carried out in America and Iraq might come as a surprise to westerners. According to Wehrly, an American police officer would be fully within his or her rights to use lethal force against an aggressive suspect wielding a knife or a baseball bat, or any other potentially deadly weapon, once that suspect comes within 21 feet of the officer.
> 
> If an Iraqi police officer shot an Iraqi citizen under similar circumstances, that officer would probably go to jail, his family would have to pay to feed him during his incarceration, and in all likelihood that officer would have to pay the attacker's family for its loss.


----------



## bujuts (Feb 1, 2006)

arnisador said:
			
		

> Has anyone heard of any other such uses of knives in the war?



During the hunts through the caves in Afghanistan, there some close combat, pistols and knives.  I've spoken to several members from 10th group Special Forces who had nothing but thanks for their combatives instructor from who they learned tactical knife fighting.

Didn't really get on the news.  But it got pretty hairy in those caves, from what I understand.

Cheers,

Steve Brown
UKF


----------



## dobermann (Feb 1, 2006)

spyderco military?

*one who just received a civilian today*


----------

