# What is Kenpo/Kempo and its origins?



## DuneViking (Apr 11, 2005)

Greetings folks,

I have heard of Kenpo(Kempo?) for years but know virtually nothing about it. I am told it was derived from Karate. Any info one wishes to share would be greatly appreciated, especially . . .
1- relative date of origins
2- characteristics, what makes it what it is
3- what are some of the main styles and their origins and differences- IE American Kenpo et.al.

Thanks for your time and interest.


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## DavidCC (Apr 11, 2005)

Many of the threads in this whole site deal with these questions.  Read old threads and use the search function.  Search on "Mitose", "Chow", "juchnik"... you will find much more than you expect.


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## bdparsons (Apr 11, 2005)

For heaven's sake...don't forget to search "Parker"!

Respects,
Bill Parsons
Triangle Kenpo Institute


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## Matt (Apr 11, 2005)

DavidCC said:
			
		

> Many of the threads in this whole site deal with these questions.  Read old threads and use the search function.  Search on "Mitose", "Chow", "juchnik"... you will find much more than you expect.



Actually, that's more the modern history. 

In the earliest incarnations, karate and kempo were almost interchangeable words. In fact the words karate kempo were often  used in a general way to describe okinawan fist arts with a chinese influence. 

The beginnings of karate kempo tended to congeal in the 13th century when the Ryu kyu kingdom established a relationship with china. Karate as we see it had more of a 1760's type of emergence. 

If you go to the basic translation, the terms were not necessarily linked, but weren't exclusive either.

Kara te  = chinese (Tang) hand

Ken(m)  po= fist  method/law

It was just a description of what types of stuff they ended up with. 
For a basic look at the history of these arts, please see:
http://home.comcast.net/~matthewabarnes/

and click on 'history'.

Matt


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## Colin_Linz (Apr 11, 2005)

Kempo is merely the Japanese reading of Chaun Fa. Karate was in fact developed from Chaun Fa. Kempo has a number of different forms. In America, it seems as if many of these relate back to Parker and Mitose; however there are a number of Japanese systems that have no relationship with these people, like Shorinji Kempo. The origins depend on how much faith you put in historical stories, and how lenient you are with the genealogy of the system.

As I know little regarding other forms of Kempo, and there are many here who know much about the different American forms of Kempo Ill confine myself to Shorinji Kempo. This art was formed by Doshin So in 1947. It was a result of his many years living and studying Kempo in China. It is a total rethink of what he learned both in China and Japan. The syllabus covers Kongo Zen philosophy, Goho (strikes and kicks), Juho (throws, locks and eludes) and Seiho (massage of pressure points and manipulation). Shorinji Kempo is the most popular martial art in Japan today, and WSKO the biggest single martial art body in the world. There are now 1,500,000 people training in Shorinji Kempo throughout the world. The biggest federation outside of Japan is Indonesia.  For a more detailed overview and understanding of its 6 characteristics check out the WSKO link in my signature box.


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## Touch Of Death (Apr 12, 2005)

Kenpo is just another word for martial art. "Fist" - refers to your natural weapons, and "law" - refers to the method by which, or the parameters defining your use of said natural weapons. These parameters are the basics and principles, and refer to the mental, physical, and spiritual. Obviously each Kempo/Kenpo school holds a particular spelling and sub-catagoy sacred; but, in truth you study TKD Kempo and another may study a version defined by Ed Parker or Al Tracy. That being said the word itself carries an implied "..." after it because you don't know what you are getting until the sub catagory is mentioned. There lies identity of  what you practice.
Sean


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## The Kai (Apr 12, 2005)

Colin_Linz said:
			
		

> Kempo is merely the Japanese reading of Chaun Fa. Karate was in fact developed from Chaun Fa. Kempo has a number of different forms. In America, it seems as if many of these relate back to Parker and Mitose; however there are a number of Japanese systems that have no relationship with these people, like Shorinji Kempo. The origins depend on how much faith you put in historical stories, and how lenient you are with the genealogy of the system.
> 
> As I know little regarding other forms of Kempo, and there are many here who know much about the different American forms of Kempo Ill confine myself to Shorinji Kempo. This art was formed by Doshin So in 1947. It was a result of his many years living and studying Kempo in China. It is a total rethink of what he learned both in China and Japan. The syllabus covers Kongo Zen philosophy, Goho (strikes and kicks), Juho (throws, locks and eludes) and Seiho (massage of pressure points and manipulation). Shorinji Kempo is the most popular martial art in Japan today, and WSKO the biggest single martial art body in the world. There are now 1,500,000 people training in Shorinji Kempo throughout the world. The biggest federation outside of Japan is Indonesia. For a more detailed overview and understanding of its 6 characteristics check out the WSKO link in my signature box.


As I understand it Doshin So, never really had a direct connection to the Shaolin temple, but choose the name in Homage-am I on the right track??


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## Seabrook (Apr 12, 2005)

DuneViking said:
			
		

> Greetings folks,
> 
> I have heard of Kenpo(Kempo?) for years but know virtually nothing about it. I am told it was derived from Karate. Any info one wishes to share would be greatly appreciated, especially . . .
> 1- relative date of origins
> ...


I have made the first chapter of my latest book, 'American Kenpo Mastery: A Guide for Students and Instructors" available for everyone to read off Kenpotalk. The first chapter is on "The History and Evolution of American Kenpo." 

Just go to:

www.kenpotalk.com
Click: Reference Guides.
Click: Other Articles of Interest

You will then find the chapter. 

Hope the chapter answers some of your questions.


God Bless.

Jamie Seabrook
www.seabrook.gotkenpo.com


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## DavidCC (Apr 12, 2005)

bdparsons said:
			
		

> For heaven's sake...don't forget to search "Parker"!
> 
> Respects,
> Bill Parsons
> Triangle Kenpo Institute


I thought aobut that, I did.. but if you do that you get about 80% of all the posts ever made at Martial Talk LOL


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## Touch Of Death (Apr 12, 2005)

Matt said:
			
		

> Actually, that's more the modern history.
> 
> In the earliest incarnations, karate and kempo were almost interchangeable words. In fact the words karate kempo were often  used in a general way to describe okinawan fist arts with a chinese influence.
> 
> ...


If you think about it they both mean the same thing. Hand or fist methods (from) of China. 
Sean


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## Colin_Linz (Apr 12, 2005)

The Kai said:
			
		

> As I understand it Doshin So, never really had a direct connection to the Shaolin temple, but choose the name in Homage-am I on the right track??


It depends on what you choose to believe. The naming of Shorinji Kempo was in reference to philosophy and goals of the art. The technical side of the art was a re examination of his total experience in martial arts in China and Japan, he even included Western Boxing. He claimed that he was the successor of a Shaolin Monk, and the 21st head of the Giwaken style. This is debated by a number of people as there are no records to prove it. What is known is that he moved to China at a young age, and lived there for many years. Eventually he was repatriated back to Japan after WW2, and two years later (in 1947) created Shorinji Kempo.

I have seen many arguments regarding his credibility, and I will admit to being biased towards Shorinji Kempo; however there are some supporting facts to his story. Doshin So was one of the first Japanese people formally invited back to China following the war. There have been many visits between the Shaolin Temple and Shorinji Kempo, and there is a good relationship between them. There is even a statue or monument of Doshin So at the Shaolin Temple. Then of course there is Shorinji Kempo itself. Some people have said it is just a mix of Karate and Jujutsu, and while on a superficial level this may appear so, anyone that goes to a Shorinji Kempo class will also recognise how different and unique it is.

There were some stories about law suits in 1972 where Doshin So lost the right to call his art Shorinji Kempo. I have yet to see any evidence of this, and Shorinji Kempo is still called Shorinji Kempo in Japan so I tend to dismiss them.

In short I accept his story of association with the Shaolin Temple, although I don't place much importance on it. Shorinji Kempo has the depth and technical understanding to stand on its own feet.


Sorry if I have over answered your question, but I felt I should include some reasoning behind my answer.


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## The Kai (Apr 13, 2005)

Did'nt communist china shut down the shaolin temple??

Now withthe fall of the Communist, the temple has recently reopened


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## DavidCC (Apr 13, 2005)

> There is even a statue or monument of Doshin So at the Shaolin Temple.


 
aren't there monuments for Steve DeMasco (USSD) and for the guy that started "Shaolin-Do" at the temple, too?  So does Doshin's make these more legit or vic versa?




> Did'nt communist china shut down the shaolin temple??


The temples in whole or part were targeted by the gov't many times, but it appears the most damage to chinese traditional knowledge was done in 1928, and I believe this was before the communists.  Most of the temples were destroyed that year, and I noticed a lot of "legendary" guys (like that one qigong teacher who they said was over 250 years old) disappeared or died that year too.


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## Colin_Linz (Apr 13, 2005)

David,

Sorry I have no idea who the others are so it would be a little unfair to pass judgment. I should note that my acceptance of Doshin Sos claim is not based on one thing, but a range of supportive evidence. On their own they would have little value, but together they add more weight. I can also accept that this evidence may not be sufficient for others to accept, as they dont have the same experience that I do with this art and its senior teachers.

It is quite hard to show factual evidence because of the state of Kempo in China at that time. You are quite correct that it was not only the communist Government that tried to eradicate Kempo, but a number of previous ones as well. Doshin So talks about how fragmented Chinese Kempo was in one of his books and mentions how savage the program of eradication was in the early 1900s. He also mentioned how glad his teacher was to find someone interested in learning his art. When Doshin So returned to China during the 1950s he was struck by how much had been lost, much of what people were doing was no more than Callisthenics.

Doshin So first went to China at around 11 years old to live with his Grandfather as his Father had died and his Mother suffered a mental breakdown trying to support the family. This was about 1922, he lived there for four years before receiving urgent news to return in 1926 as his Mother was very ill. Then in 1928 he returned to China, were he lived until being repatriated in 1947 following WW2. This gives him around 23 years of Chinese residency; I think it could only be reasonable to expect him to have had experience in Chinese Kempo during this time given his obvious interest in the subject.


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## The Kai (Apr 14, 2005)

Would the Chinese be inclined to trust the japanese a ton, esp considering japan's paln for China


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## DavidCC (Apr 14, 2005)

Colin_Linz said:
			
		

> David,
> 
> Sorry I have no idea who the others are...


I wasn't trying to denegrate anyone, that wasn't really my point... sorry to anyone who might have thought so. Of course none of them mean anyhting to the other  and they all have their place in the world. 

Wow am I in a good mood today or what. Finally they got my meds right :drink2tha:


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## Colin_Linz (Apr 14, 2005)

The Kai said:
			
		

> Would the Chinese be inclined to trust the japanese a ton, esp considering japan's paln for China


 [font=&quot]
 [/font]In general, no. But someone living there since a child may have built some strong relationships. With Doshin So it was his Chinese friends that helped him escape when the Russians came into Manchuria. He was very critical of the Japanese armed forces both in his books and in TV interviews in Japan. This willingness to act against what he considered wrongful actions may have helped him gain the trust of people in China. In Japan, and I suspect China peoples actions are more important than their words, and as such are examined closely when considering truth and trustworthiness. I have read that he was the first Japanese person to be invited back to China after the war (I cant verify this so I stated one of the first earlier). This helps demonstrate his depth of connection with the Chinese people.


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## Colin_Linz (Apr 14, 2005)

DavidCC said:
			
		

> I wasn't trying to denegrate anyone, that wasn't really my point... sorry to anyone who might have thought so. Of course none of them mean anyhting to the other  and they all have their place in the world.
> 
> Wow am I in a good mood today or what. Finally they got my meds right :drink2tha:


 Sometimes I read too much into what people are trying to say.

I seem to have high jacked this thread a bit. I thought I would contribute because there are mainly Kenpo people on this forum and I wanted to ensure that others reading the thread understood that there are other very large Kempo systems around, and that not all are related to American Kenpo. I am happy to continue to answer any questions related to Shorinji Kempo and Doshin So to the best of my understanding, but perhaps some other members of other systems my like to say a little about their art. There are probably people like me who have very little understanding of other forms of Kempo/Kenpo reading this thread.


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## Zoran (Apr 14, 2005)

> I am told it was derived from Karate.


 First, I would say Karate is a more modern term of the art. Before it took the name of karate, which was more a political move. It was called To-de which essentially means China hands most likely in the okinawan dialect or language. It was also called Okinawan Hands. 

 From what I understand there are three major divisions that many of these styles originated from. These were Shuri-Te, Naha-Te, and Tomari-Te. Which I believe where all names of towns or villages with the symbol for hands added to them. 

  All of them came from China. If it actually came from the Shaolin Temple, we will never know for sure. 

*Shorinji Kempo* does not share this lineage is it took a more direct route from China to Japan from the founder. 

  Styles like *Ryukyu* and *Okinawan Kenpo* whould share the okinawan lineage. 
*
  The Hawaiian Kenpo Systems Origins: *

 These systems come from Mitose lineage. Due to the fact we will never know what is true and what isn't when it comes to that person, we will never know the true origins of kenpo systems from that lineage. Look back at some of the books and talking to some of the old timers, I would say it is a safe bet to say the systems share some of the Okinawan lineage with maybe a little Jujitsu thrown into the mix.

  Here is a short list of systems that trace their lineage to Hawaii:
  Kosho Ryu Kempo
  Karaho Kempo
  Kajukenbo
  Shaolin Kenpo (Castro)
  Ed Parker's American Kenpo
  Tracy Kenpo
  Cerio Kenpo
  Shaolin Kempo Karate (Villari)
  Karazenpo
  and many, many more (_including mine_).

  On a final note. I would say systems from the Chow lineage, (_especially from the Emperado and Parker lineage_) the whole origins question really is not relevant. So much has been added to all those systems that the origins expand outward to many areas. Kajukenbo added 4 other styles to the system. American Kenpo has been completely restructured to the point it is a seperate entity from the original with its own special language and rules.

  P.S.
  I agree with  Coline Linz's post #5.


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## DuneViking (Apr 15, 2005)

Thanks to all for this informative discussion. At first, I was under the impression Kenpo was an American system, then found many references as discussed here that link it back to Karate and Okinawan styles derived from Chinese systems. This has been a very good source of info and thanks again to all!


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## Matt (Apr 16, 2005)

Touch'O'Death said:
			
		

> If you think about it they both mean the same thing. Hand or fist methods (from) of China.
> Sean



That's sort of what I was getting at. If you have a ferrari, you can call it 'italian car' or 'sweet ride' and neither is necessarily wrong, and sometimes 'sweet italian car' might be okay too. 

Many folks noted for karate, wrote books calling it kempo. Many used the term 'karate kempo'. I'm cool with 'chinese hand fistfighting method.'

I think we're on the same page.

Matt


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