# WTF Sparring: why it is the way that it is.



## Daniel Sullivan

The question of why fighters in WTF tournaments and the Olympics utilize a particular stance and guard was asked in another thread.  Rather than derail that thread, I started this one.  I have not competed in many several years and have never competed with electronic hogu, so my information may not be the most up to date, though the essentials haven't changed.

World Taekwondo Federation sparring rules mandate that participants wear a hogu and homyun.  The hogu protect the torso and are reversible; one side red, the other blue, which allows participants to be easily distinguished by color.  The primary reason for the hogu, however, is to allow kicks to the torso above the belt and below the chest without undue injury to the person receiving the kick.  The homyun protects the head.  Electric hogu to facilitate scoring is utilized at the national and international levels in order to facilitate consistent scoring.  The benefits of electric scoring have been a source of debate and is outside of the context of this thread.

Kicks are the primary technical element used for scoring and the rule set is set up to both emphasize kicks and to make use of the extended range kicking allows over hand techniques.  Kicks to the head or face score three points and punches are not allowed above the torso area.  Blows to the body, be they punches or kicks, are worth one point, but spinning kicks, including the back kick, are worth two.  Strikes must be delivered with "trembling shock" in order to score.  Matches are continuous, meaning that after a score is tallied, the match is not stopped to reset the opponents.

Because blows to the head are worth more points, high kicking is encouraged.  Because spinning kicks to the body are worth more points than non-spinning kicks, these are encouraged.  While punches to the body are worth one point, it is difficult to score with punches.  Punches tend to be used more to off balance an opponent and/or to set him/her up for a kicking attack, or to create some space.  Only straight punches to the body are scored.  

Because the body is both closer and much larger than the head, it is still the most obvious target.  The midsection of the torso is the scoring area, and it valid around the body excepting the spine, so there are a lot of opportunities to score on the body.  Because kicks naturally have more power than punches avoidance of kicks, particularly head kicks, is the preferred method of defense.  Because blocking a punch means potentially opening up one's self more for a kicking attack, punches are avoided as well.  Blocking kicks also carries greater risk of injury to arm/wrist/hand due to the greater force delivered by the kicking limb.  

For these reasons, participants tend to maintain a low guard.  This keeps the body perpetually protected.  Athletes also "bounce," allowing for rapid movement in any direction without taking a step and for rapid changes of left/right stance.  This facilitates fakes with the legs and prevents you from having to cross your feet as you move.  It also means fewer changes in stance and fewer chances for an opponent to take advantage of those changes.

At the conclusion of the match, the player with the most points wins.

This is hardly detailed description of the rules; if you want that, you can find it here: http://www.wtf.org/wtf_eng/site/rules/competition.html.  

Obviously, the rule set is not designed to emulate a "real fight" but was designed to offer a martial sport with a flavor and feel different from that of karate, kickboxing, or boxing, and which would also pay homage to Taekkyeon, a Korean kicking game.  WTF rules provide a distinctly Korean game that emphasizes high, full contact kicking.  

For those who have questions about the rule set, I hope that this is helpful to you.  For those who are more directly involved in WTF competition than I am, please feel free to enrich this topic with your knowledge.


----------



## Daniel Sullivan

I would like to request that the mods sticky this.  That way, people don't need to hunt through pages and pages of threads and often pages and pages within those threads to find the answers.


----------



## Manny

Daniel Sullivan said:


> The question of why fighters in WTF tournaments and the Olympics utilize a particular stance and guard was asked in another thread.  Rather than derail that thread, I started this one.  I have not competed in many several years and have never competed with electronic hogu, so my information may not be the most up to date, though the essentials haven't changed.
> 
> World Taekwondo Federation sparring rules mandate that participants wear a hogu and homyun.  The hogu protect the torso and are reversible; one side red, the other blue, which allows participants to be easily distinguished by color.  The primary reason for the hogu, however, is to allow kicks to the torso above the belt and below the chest without undue injury to the person receiving the kick.  The homyun protects the head.  Electric hogu to facilitate scoring is utilized at the national and international levels in order to facilitate consistent scoring.  The benefits of electric scoring have been a source of debate and is outside of the context of this thread.
> 
> Kicks are the primary technical element used for scoring and the rule set is set up to both emphasize kicks and to make use of the extended range kicking allows over hand techniques.  Kicks to the head or face score three points and punches are not allowed above the torso area.  Blows to the body, be they punches or kicks, are worth one point, but spinning kicks, including the back kick, are worth two.  Strikes must be delivered with "trembling shock" in order to score.  Matches are continuous, meaning that after a score is tallied, the match is not stopped to reset the opponents.
> 
> Because blows to the head are worth more points, high kicking is encouraged.  Because spinning kicks to the body are worth more points than non-spinning kicks, these are encouraged.  While punches to the body are worth one point, it is difficult to score with punches.  Punches tend to be used more to off balance an opponent and/or to set him/her up for a kicking attack, or to create some space.  Only straight punches to the body are scored.
> 
> Because the body is both closer and much larger than the head, it is still the most obvious target.  The midsection of the torso is the scoring area, and it valid around the body excepting the spine, so there are a lot of opportunities to score on the body.  Because kicks naturally have more power than punches avoidance of kicks, particularly head kicks, is the preferred method of defense.  Because blocking a punch means potentially opening up one's self more for a kicking attack, punches are avoided as well.  Blocking kicks also carries greater risk of injury to arm/wrist/hand due to the greater force delivered by the kicking limb.
> 
> For these reasons, participants tend to maintain a low guard.  This keeps the body perpetually protected.  Athletes also "bounce," allowing for rapid movement in any direction without taking a step and for rapid changes of left/right stance.  This facilitates fakes with the legs and prevents you from having to cross your feet as you move.  It also means fewer changes in stance and fewer chances for an opponent to take advantage of those changes.
> 
> At the conclusion of the match, the player with the most points wins.
> 
> This is hardly detailed description of the rules; if you want that, you can find it here: http://www.wtf.org/wtf_eng/site/rules/competition.html.
> 
> Obviously, the rule set is not designed to emulate a "real fight" but was designed to offer a martial sport with a flavor and feel different from that of karate, kickboxing, or boxing, and which would also pay homage to Taekkyeon, a Korean kicking game.  WTF rules provide a distinctly Korean game that emphasizes high, full contact kicking.
> 
> For those who have questions about the rule set, I hope that this is helpful to you.  For those who are more directly involved in WTF competition than I am, please feel free to enrich this topic with your knowledge.



Exelent!!!!!!!

Manny


----------



## puunui

This is what GM LEE Chong Woo said about the development of taekwondo competition emphasizing kicking:

"&#8220;I thought Taekwondo should become a sport for competition from the beginning stage, if we wanted to upgrade the value of Taekwondo. I was criticized a lot when the competitors were injured, but the rate of injury was minimal. On the contrary, we must emphasize the improvement of skills that are enhanced every day when contestants fight. When you look at all the sports, boxing employs hand techniques using the fist, and therefore I decided we should develop Taekwondo as a sport emphasizing foot techniques. We restricted hand techniques and we developed competition rules for Taekwondo mainly emphasizing kicking techniques . . .&#8221;

&#8220;In any sport, there should be a unique factor to develop. In other words, soccer is a sport in which you kick with your feet. In basketball, you throw with your hands. These are the unique factors. Therefore, we decided to go with the focus on the feet."


----------



## ETinCYQX

Nice writeup, Daniel


----------



## MAist25

Very well done!


----------



## d1jinx

I am only sad we didnt do this a long time ago.

Thanks Daniel for taking the time to explain what we have all been telling people for a while.

:asian:


----------



## Daniel Sullivan

Hopefully, it will cut down on some of the repeated asking and answering of the same questions over and over.  

I tried to hit all of the contentious elements; low guard, bouncing, predominance of kicking, and the difficulty of scoring with punches.


----------



## Manny

I liked this post a lot, is short and consistent, even I use it to explain to my students and will do for my martial arts budies why TKD makes emphasis on kicking, why we use a low guard, why we use safety equipment, etc,etc.

For me TKD is a kicking martial art.... take it or leave it! as judo is a trowing art, as karate is mainly a hand striking art, etc,ect, TKD is what is it and period. We use a low guard because trying to block a kick can be to risky and because it's better to be out side of the kicks of our enemy but we need to be relax (something dificult with both arms up) to do the kicks low or high, static or jumping, straight or spining. We use full pads because a kick can be demolishing to our body so we look for safety and health. We do a lot of silly footwork, boun cing and feinting cause this is what I cal strategy.

Our game is kicking however we are very capable if need it to use hands to set our enemy to kikcing distance where we are stronger than other martial arts.

mANNY


----------



## 40th Alabama

Manny said:


> Our game is kicking however we are very capable if need it to use hands to set our enemy to kikcing distance where we are stronger than other martial arts.
> 
> mANNY



I started practicing TKD back in the late 60's.  About that time Safety-Punch and Safety-Kicks began to be used in the sport.  Control was practiced.  Watching the Olympic Gold Medal match this afternoon, I couldn't help but think that the fighting was not as good (not meaning the fighters wern't as good) as it was back then.  Two things that didn't appeal to me are the prohibition of punches to the head and the warning against fighters for not fighting. Hands and strikes are TKD weapons.  Defensive and counter-offensive fighting has its place and a timed match with sudden death can take care of the time element.  Use that rule after the first overtime.  It just wasn't as good to watch with the new rules-jmho.


----------



## Jaeimseu

40th Alabama said:


> I started practicing TKD back in the late 60's. About that time Safety-Punch and Safety-Kicks began to be used in the sport. Control was practiced. Watching the Olympic Gold Medal match this afternoon, I couldn't help but think that the fighting was not as good (not meaning the fighters wern't as good) as it was back then. *Two things that didn't appeal to me are the prohibition of punches to the head and the warning against fighters for not fighting. Hands and strikes are TKD weapons.* Defensive and counter-offensive fighting has its place and a timed match with sudden death can take care of the time element. Use that rule after the first overtime. It just wasn't as good to watch with the new rules-jmho.



This is a silly complaint to me, because the rules concerning punches to the head were set up that way for a particular reason, which is in puunui's post earlier in this thread. The whole point was/is to differentiate taekwondo from other "fight" sports. It's supposed to be different and unique. Like in basketball you have to dribble, but in American football you can run with the ball.

Yes, hand strikes are taekwondo weapons. There are also many different ways to advance a ball that are not allowed in different ball sports. Sports are not meant to, nor do they need to include every possibility. The taekwond seniors and pioneers who created the rule set did not overlook punching; they chose to focus on kicking and the development of kicking through sport competition.


----------



## Daniel Sullivan

40th Alabama said:


> I started practicing TKD back in the late 60's. About that time Safety-Punch and Safety-Kicks began to be used in the sport. Control was practiced. Watching the Olympic Gold Medal match this afternoon, I couldn't help but think that the fighting was not as good (not meaning the fighters wern't as good) as it was back then.


The fighting was not as good or it was not as enjoyable *for you *to watch?   



40th Alabama said:


> Two things that didn't appeal to me are the prohibition of punches to the head and the warning against fighters for not fighting. Hands and strikes are TKD weapons. Defensive and counter-offensive fighting has its place and a timed match with sudden death can take care of the time element. Use that rule after the first overtime.


The first is explained in the OP and has been explained many, many times before in this section.  The second was to make it more enjoyable to viewers who complained about lack of action.  You cannot make everyone happy.

As for the rest, I'm sure that some boxing fans had similar complaints when boxing went from whatever it was before to Queensbury rules.  Sports change and evolve, and not everyone is going to like the direction that it changes or evolves in.  

For people like yourself who like a more hand/foot ballanced style, there are so many options available, including another TKD federation and a Korean karate style (TSD), that I see no reason for complaint.  If Kukkiwon/WTF taekwondo isn't for you, I can understand and respect that.  

But find a style that offers what you like and embrace it, while allowing others to do the same with regards to styles that you may not like or embrace. 



40th Alabama said:


> It just wasn't as good to watch with the new rules-jmho.


While I get the context of what you're saying, calling anything that has been in place for roughly forty years, "new," is *really* stretching it.


----------



## Dobbelsteen

Daniel Sullivan said:


> Because the body is both closer and much larger than the head, it is still the most obvious target.  The midsection of the torso is the scoring area, and it valid around the body excepting the spine, so there are a lot of opportunities to score on the body.  Because kicks naturally have more power than punches avoidance of kicks, particularly head kicks, is the preferred method of defense.  Because blocking a punch means potentially opening up one's self more for a kicking attack, punches are avoided as well.  Blocking kicks also carries greater risk of injury to arm/wrist/hand due to the greater force delivered by the kicking limb.
> 
> For these reasons, participants tend to maintain a low guard.  This keeps the body perpetually protected.  Athletes also "bounce," allowing for rapid movement in any direction without taking a step and for rapid changes of left/right stance.  This facilitates fakes with the legs and prevents you from having to cross your feet as you move.  It also means fewer changes in stance and fewer chances for an opponent to take advantage of those changes.



I had the impression that the low guard and the bouncing are done because of the range, not to reduce injury and move faster...
>> Blocking kicks also carries greater risk of injury to arm/wrist/hand due to the greater force delivered by the kicking limb.
Not blocking kicks could cause injury to your head. I'd prefer an injured arm above a concussion.

In other martial arts, like boxing, for a lot of the time you will be in punching range of your oponent. This means you must keep your guard up. If you lower your guard, you´ll get punched in the head immediatly. In such a close range its easier to block then to dodge. 
In taekwondo, most of the time you will be just outside of the oponents kicking range. If you lower your guard, your oponent still can´t hit you without first stepping forward. In order to hit your opponent, you will first have to get into kicking range. By leaving yourself mostly open, you can draw your oponent into your attacking range, giving you the chance to dodge his attack and counter. If you don´t leave yourself open, you will make it hard for your oponent to hit you, so he´ll just stay out of your range.

As for the bouncing, I´m not so sure it really makes you much faster. But it does disguise your movements. If you stand still and attack, your oponent will immediatly react when he sees your movement. With the bouncing, your always moving, so it takes just a little bit longer for your oponent to see when your actually moving for an attack.

Could be wrong about these things, just the impression i got while doing tkd sparring.


----------



## 40th Alabama

My comments were not a complaint, it was my observation of what my thoughts were as I watched the matches.  There were occasions during the match where the fighters were standing chest to chest with their hands down-just didn't seem right.  Also, I stated in my post that it was just my opinion.  I dropped out of TKD for over 30 years because of school, work, and family-I have renewed my interest in the last 6 months-thus, it is all new to me.  Taigues are new to me.

I'll throw out another soft ball-why would the olympics restrict the style to TKD?  Why would they not make the competition open to all styles?  I keep coming back to the feeling that the Olympic Committee has issues.  After all, they eliminated baseball as an olympic sport and put in trampolines, synchronized diving and swimming, etc.


----------



## Daniel Sullivan

40th Alabama said:


> I'll throw out another soft ball-why would the olympics restrict the style to TKD?  Why would they not make the competition open to all styles?  I keep coming back to the feeling that the Olympic Committee has issues.  After all, they eliminated baseball as an olympic sport and put in trampolines, synchronized diving and swimming, etc.


Because the Olympics tends to want specific sports rather than just general categories so as to highlight the international flavor.  Taekwondo is in the Olympics as the national sport of Korea, not as a striking art.

Also, because the WTF and powers that be on Korea's Olympic committee pushed to have taekwondo specifically added to the Olympics.


----------



## Daniel Sullivan

Dobbelsteen said:


> I had the impression that the low guard and the bouncing are done because of the range, not to reduce injury and move faster...
> >> Blocking kicks also carries greater risk of injury to arm/wrist/hand due to the greater force delivered by the kicking limb.
> Not blocking kicks could cause injury to your head. I'd prefer an injured arm above a concussion.


You're simply phrasing it differently.  Staying just outside of kicking range avoids kicks and keeping your arms low guards your sides.  The reasons for most of the tactics in any sport are usually multifaceted.  This is not a comprehensive write up; just something to aid people in knowing what they're looking at.


----------



## andyjeffries

As an interesting point, having just watched Coach Kim, Sae-hyuk's Guide to Kyorugi first video this lunch time - he says that he teaches all his athletes to hold their guard up not to have them down by their sides (I can post the exact timepoint and quote the English version if anyone needs it or is interested).  Coach Kim is one of the most successful WTF sparring competition coaches in history.

I see the logic for having the hands by the side, and Coach Kim may have changed his opinion since that video set was produced, but it's what was said (while it's fresh in my mind).


----------



## puunui

40th Alabama said:


> I started practicing TKD back in the late 60's.  About that time Safety-Punch and Safety-Kicks began to be used in the sport.  Control was practiced.



Taekwondo prohibited face punches in the 1960s. What you are describing is not taekwondo competition, but rather American point competition, using safety punch and chops, which I don't believe came onto the scene until the early 70s. Also taekwondo competition has always been full contact, not controlled, which again sounds like american point. Not the same thing. If you want point fighting, it is still around.


----------



## miguksaram

puunui said:


> Taekwondo prohibited face punches in the 1960s. What you are describing is not taekwondo competition, but rather American point competition, using safety punch and chops, which I don't believe came onto the scene until the early 70s. Also taekwondo competition has always been full contact, not controlled, which again sounds like american point. Not the same thing. If you want point fighting, it is still around.


Yes, GM Rhee, Jhoon developed Safe-T gear back in 1972.  Before then it was "controlled" contact, which pretty much meant you didn't break the nose, just bloody it a bit.


----------



## Jaeimseu

40th Alabama said:


> My comments were not a complaint, it was my observation of what my thoughts were as I watched the matches.  *There were occasions during the match where the fighters were standing chest to chest with their hands down-just didn't seem right.*  Also, I stated in my post that it was just my opinion.  I dropped out of TKD for over 30 years because of school, work, and family-I have renewed my interest in the last 6 months-thus, it is all new to me.  Taigues are new to me.
> 
> I'll throw out another soft ball-why would the olympics restrict the style to TKD?  Why would they not make the competition open to all styles?  I keep coming back to the feeling that the Olympic Committee has issues.  After all, they eliminated baseball as an olympic sport and put in trampolines, synchronized diving and swimming, etc.


It's actually much easier to shut the opponent's kicks down in this position. Going chest to chest is fairly safe under the rule-set. Some players are looking for the referee to call a break. Other players are looking to kick from this position. With the hands down it is easy to cover the body against a quick round kick. At the same time, if you feel a kick going up to the head, it's fairly easy to simply extend the arm and stop the kick on the way up.


----------



## Manny

Can anybody tell me why dertractors of WTF Style of sparring compalin so much for the low GUARD! Even boxers that use up guard are hitt in the face and even got KO's, even Manny Pacquiao got KO, I think a well KO is tjhe result of good tactics. How many KO have you seen in boxing and how many KO have you been seen in WTF competition? Yes you can get caught wiht a nice kick on the head/face inside TKD, I got several of them and know I will get some as long as I keep training TKD.

If my perfect range of fighting is long range (using kicks) this is the range I will use most of the times and the low guard favors me period, but then if I need close counters contact a semi up gard is waht I use.

Manny


----------



## Daniel Sullivan

Manny said:


> Can anybody tell me why dertractors of WTF Style of sparring compalin so much for the low GUARD! Even boxers that use up guard are hitt in the face and even got KO's, even Manny Pacquiao got KO, I think a well KO is tjhe result of good tactics. How many KO have you seen in boxing and how many KO have you been seen in WTF competition? Yes you can get caught wiht a nice kick on the head/face inside TKD, I got several of them and know I will get some as long as I keep training TKD.
> 
> If my perfect range of fighting is long range (using kicks) this is the range I will use most of the times and the low guard favors me period, but then if I need close counters contact a semi up gard is waht I use.
> 
> Manny



After many go-rounds with people on this subject over the years, I have come to the conclusion that they simply will not accept any deviation from 'hands up' because it was drilled into them.  There is also the mentality that the WTF low guard posture is how KKW taekwondo is taught across the board and that practitioners will always 'fight like they train.'

KKW pumsae are not practiced with a low guard, however, and not all sparring is competitive.  I always was trained to maintain a guard appropriate to the scenario.

Honestly, I have seen very few constructive or accurate criticisms of WTF sparring.  Some people don't like it and see it as their mission to be on the web discrediting it at every turn.  There is usually a degree of organizational dislike accompanying it as well.


----------



## Cyriacus

Daniel Sullivan said:


> After many go-rounds with people on this subject over the years, I have come to the conclusion that they simply will not accept any deviation from 'hands up' because it was drilled into them.  There is also the mentality that the WTF low guard posture is how KKW taekwondo is taught across the board and that practitioners will always 'fight like they train.'
> 
> KKW pumsae are not practiced with a low guard, however, and not all sparring is competitive.  I always was trained to maintain a guard appropriate to the scenario.
> 
> Honestly, I have seen very few constructive or accurate criticisms of WTF sparring.  Some people don't like it and see it as their mission to be on the web discrediting it at every turn.  There is usually a degree of organizational dislike accompanying it as well.



Im gonna quote myself from another thread:
Your system is neither the peak nor nadir of what you can do. Any system of neither the peak nor nadir of what someone else can do.

And hey - Some boxers carry a low guard. I keep a low front hand for various reasons.


----------



## ETinCYQX

andyjeffries said:


> As an interesting point, having just watched Coach Kim, Sae-hyuk's Guide to Kyorugi first video this lunch time - he says that he teaches all his athletes to hold their guard up not to have them down by their sides (I can post the exact timepoint and quote the English version if anyone needs it or is interested).  Coach Kim is one of the most successful WTF sparring competition coaches in history.
> 
> I see the logic for having the hands by the side, and Coach Kim may have changed his opinion since that video set was produced, but it's what was said (while it's fresh in my mind).



Shin Lim, the Canadian Olympic coach, teaches a high guard too. Fists around the chin


----------



## paitingman

The low guard to me is all about priorities. Since punching to the face is not allowed hands are often not ready to punch, and not ready to defend them. The lowered arms protects the sides and lowers the center of gravity, slightly slouching the shoulders and relaxing the upper body. This increases mobility and makes kicking easier. It is easier to have the kicking-side arm extended downward while kicking than to have it held up. It is just natural. Like when walking, the arm tends to want to extend away from the direction the leg swings. This ergonomic technique increases speed/power. Muay Thai fighters often uses this same principle, though their guard returns quickly afterward.

As far as why WTF sparring is the way it is. It is as it's been stated here before. These changes were made to make it unique. 

Heavy karate influence is an apparent fact. Early on certain members wanted to distinguish Taekwondo from other arts.
The old Karate/ITF style point sparring was obviously from Karate influence that emphasized forms and the ideal of a single lethal blow. 
To separate from this, they employed full contact and body protectors.

Full contact changed the game forever. 

It changed the timing. The point sparring style of "I attack-You block-You counter" simply didnt work well when full contact was introduced and "trembling shock" was needed to score. You simply couldn't expect to block a full force kick and then give a full force blow back afterwards. Your opponent would not be there. The classic Taekwondo style counterattack was invented to solve this problem. The blocking stage was eliminated and replaced with footwork that enabled a simultaneous "You attack-I counterattack" type exchange. From here all sorts of combos and other unique footwork were spawned. This is how/why WTF Taekwondo took kicking footwork to the level it's at. 

(Kyokushin also shows the different timing compared to point sparring. Though instead of footwork, they replaced the blocking stage with toughness "I will weather your full contact blow, in order to have the distance/time to give my own")

Most differences between ITF/Karate, and WTF can be in some way traced back to unique rules introduced way back when.


----------



## Cho, Yeonsoo

To, OP (daniel) this is my first post on this forum, I'm currently a 1st Dan that (specializes?) in contact Taekwondo (also Korean) and I must say, yes! Yes! YEs! YES! finally, someone understands, everyone calls us "*******", "cowards" etc for wearing gear, however, if we were to not wear this gear, we could get very seriously injured, I know of fellow students which suffered concussions and even I have injured others through the gear, so yes, the gear is quite necessary.


----------



## Daniel Sullivan

Welcome to Martialtalk!


----------



## Laplace_demon

paitingman said:


> Most differences between ITF/Karate, and WTF can be in some way traced back to unique rules introduced way back when.



True. When I go diagonally with my roundhouse kicks head high_, _ the ITF asisstant instructor (4th Dan) asserts those are "soccer kicks", not Taekwondo! He even went as far as saying their "wrong". The fact that I perform them seeminglessly and fast doesn't matter. He won't accept them as legitimate. My head instructor liked them, and their height.

Of course, any Taekwondo instructional from South korea has them, instead of his outdated "mawashi geri" styled roundhouse, which in my opinion is slow and ineffective.


----------



## Dinkydoo

Laplace_demon said:


> Of course, any Taekwondo instructional from South korea has them, instead of his outdated "mawashi geri" styled roundhouse, which in my opinion is slow and ineffective.



I don't do TKD however I'm interested to know how the "mawashi geri" styled roundhouses go when compared with what you were doing. Having done a few differernt styles (some much more briefly than others) I've been taught a few different ways to do a roundhouse. Mostly, I prefer and persist with the Muay Thai method I was taught.


----------



## Laplace_demon

Dinkydoo said:


> I don't do TKD however I'm interested to know how the "mawashi geri" styled roundhouses go when compared with what you were doing. Having done a few differernt styles (some much more briefly than others) I've been taught a few different ways to do a roundhouse. Mostly, I prefer and persist with the Muay Thai method I was taught.



Huh? Just google mawashi geri, and you will find out. This instructional demonstrates a modern TKD kick, which some, as I just mentioned , labelled a soccer kick, simply for not being able to open his eyes to modern advancements in the world, but instead is stuck in the 60s!






1:36 - Roundhouse kicks.

And that tape is even old!


----------



## Tony Dismukes

I'd be interested if anyone has any theories as to why Kyokushin sparring and WTF sparring have evolved so differently, even though there are a lot of similarities in the allowed techniques. Is it the scoring or something else? Could a high-level Olympic TKD competitor do well in Kyokushin competition or vice versa? (Obviously the Kyokushin competitor couldn't use leg kicks or knees in WTF competition, but I've seen Kypkushin competitors who seem to specialize in high kicks of the sort which are legal in TKD.)


----------



## Dinkydoo

Laplace_demon said:


> Huh? Just google mawashi geri, and you will find out. This instructional demonstrates a modern TKD kick, which some, as I just mentioned , labelled a soccer kick, simply for not being able to open his eyes to modern advancements in the world, but instead is stuck in the 60s!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1:36 - Roundhouse kicks.
> 
> And that tape is even old!


Ah, didn't realise it would be that simple with mawashi geri being a well used term. I was interested to see if any of the round house varieties I'd been taught were similar - mainly because I've been wondering where the hell all these variations have came from. The answer was, not really.


----------



## Laplace_demon

Tony Dismukes said:


> I'd be interested if anyone has any theories as to why Kyokushin sparring and WTF sparring have evolved so differently, even though there are a lot of similarities in the allowed techniques. Is it the scoring or something else? Could a high-level Olympic TKD competitor do well in Kyokushin competition or vice versa? (Obviously the Kyokushin competitor couldn't use leg kicks or knees in WTF competition, but I've seen Kypkushin competitors who seem to specialize in high kicks of the sort which are legal in TKD.)



Japan did not allow tournaments involving  punches to face without boxing gloves of some sort, which is part of the reason Kyokushin rules do not have it to this day.

As for WTF, Koreans pride themselves on their unique kicking proficiency and in an effort to promote this, incorporated such rules.

Unfortunately, WTF bares little resemblence to KK, but is in theory possible through removal of protectors and few other adjustements.

WTFers kick better(for several obvious reasons), and have beaten KK guys from time to time. But most TKD guys don't care for it. Anderson Silva is a 5th Dan black belt in WTF.


----------



## mattktkd

I am a currently participating athlete who fights under the WTF rules.  Now I have sort of a different take on why we fight with our hands low.  While it is not practical to keep them low if we need to block our head it is a lot easier to block the body.  If the feet sensor pads never reach you how can they score a point? and if not enough of them reach you then no point is scored either.  This being said it is more common for the better fighter to fight with the rear hand held slightly higher and the front hand to be lower -- about waist level -- and more in front of the player.  The higher carried rear hand is in a position to punch from here and it is high enough where blocking head kicks is not out of the picture.


----------



## Moto9000

Also a kick to the head takes longer, giving more time to raise the guard.


----------

