# IDENTITY on reputation points



## Brother John

I was the kind of guy in HighSchool who'd care less if I was "Popular" or not.
Infact, getting to know some of the most popular people in my school convinced me that it shouldn't be a coveted thing at all. So it doesn't bother me if I have many little green or little red dots at the tops of my posts. People will make up their own minds about what I have to say. In all honesty, I've not gotten many negative points in my...... thing.  :idunno:  But I've gotten a few that say some rude things, but it's 100% annonymous. I think people are using this newish feature to take potshots, and it's annoying.

IS there anyway to at least make it denote whom it is that left whatever feedback?
If not, so be it. 
Just thought I'd ask.
Your Brother
John


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## KenpoTess

For members.. unless the poster signs their name.. no.. no way to see who posted the Rep points.  The staff, can see who gave what though.

I look at it as just a 'cutesy' part of the software.   *shrugs*

~Tess


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## Cruentus

Brother John said:
			
		

> I was the kind of guy in HighSchool who'd care less if I was "Popular" or not.
> Infact, getting to know some of the most popular people in my school convinced me that it shouldn't be a coveted thing at all. So it doesn't bother me if I have many little green or little red dots at the tops of my posts. People will make up their own minds about what I have to say. In all honesty, I've not gotten many negative points in my...... thing.  :idunno:  But I've gotten a few that say some rude things, but it's 100% annonymous. I think people are using this newish feature to take potshots, and it's annoying.
> 
> IS there anyway to at least make it denote whom it is that left whatever feedback?
> If not, so be it.
> Just thought I'd ask.
> Your Brother
> John



Don't know. I sign my name to mine, and I usually give out only good points. Someone has to be a real moron for me to give them negatives.

The problem I see with having identity associated with negative points is that the stupidity of the human condition will kick in. "Hey, Brother John just gave me a negative point, so I'm going to now give HIM a negative point!" Then, you have contests and "reputation wars" with people, which could get real stupid. It could carry over to flame wars in the forums, where someone is grudge holding over rep points, so they slam you when they get the chance. So far, I have had people give me negative points, and they have attacked me in comment from everything to my character to my political stance to my religion. Some have given me negatives with no explaination at all. Some have been suspicious of me giving them negatives (something I rarely do), so they have flamed me and given me negative points, simply because they "thought" I gave them negatives because I publically disagreed with them. Unjustified negative points is the downside to rep points. But, I am afraid that if we were forced to sign our names to them, more problems would be created, simply based of the human condition.

That being said, maybe it is easy for me to say because out of the negatives I have recieved, I certianly have more positives to show for it. Maybe I'm doing something right. It all works out in the end, me thinks.

PAUL

p.s. Bro-John...I hope you didn't mind my positive points I gave you, with my little quip to go with it!  :uhyeah:


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## Bob Hubbard

We could set it up that way, but decided against it.  Partially due to the retribution-wars I've seen on other boards.

If someone gets particularly nasty, let us know however.  Anyone found abusing the system will be dealt with.


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## loki09789

Why not just do away with it entirely.  As I have said in the past, it sort of establishes a good old boy network of token power... seems like it would be a better place if we all just got equal 'rep point representation' and that was that.


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## Dronak

Brother John said:
			
		

> But I've gotten a few that say some rude things, but it's 100% annonymous. I think people are using this newish feature to take potshots, and it's annoying.
> 
> IS there anyway to at least make it denote whom it is that left whatever feedback?



I was only on one other board that had this feature and I left it after some bad experiences with users and mods.  It was anonymous there, too, but you couldn't leave comments like here.  Whether that's good or bad is debateable.  Instead of just adding a point, you can also say "great post!" or something which can be nice to see.  But likewise, as you already found out, you can subtract a point and then leave some insulting comment with it and the recipient won't know who did it.  But I think they're right to keep it anonymous and avoid the possible wars that could happen if neither party is willing to let the other have the last word.  I think I've seen something similar on IM -- people who normally have no warnings suddenly have something high like 70%.  That fast?  How?  They must have gotten into an argument with someone and they kept warning each other back and forth on each message.  At least with anonymous reputation/karma here, that does get avoided.  

However, I'm still not a big fan of the system.  It might be OK over the long term, once you reach a relatively stable value, but particularly in the beginning with low point totals it's too easy to have it switched from a positive total to a negative one.  If your posts annoy someone enough, they can take it out on you by repeatedly giving you negative points.  I suppose something like that could be reported to the mods, but can or will they do something?  I don't know.  It would probably depend on the situation.  From the little I've seen so far, it doesn't seem like there are huge problems with the system which is good, but I really wouldn't be disappointed if it were removed.  It still seems just a bit too fickle for my tastes.  I think I'd prefer something where each person gets one vote on every other user, changeable at will.

P.S. -- Why are some boxes dark green and others light/bright green?  Does it mark your highest point total?  You reached some level, but it's dropped from that?


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## Flatlander

I'd like to say, though, that I see a benefit to having them.  As a relative newcomer to this board, it gives me reason to pause and think when I see a post by someone with a lot of negative rep, as well as tend to add more credibility to those with more positive.  I know that over the course of time, as I get to know everyone here a little better, that won't really matter anymore, but I must say, I've found it quite useful so far.


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## Bob Hubbard

The more points, the more boxes.  After a while, it switches colors to signify greater values.

I'm contemplating some changes to the graphics, and possibly the point system in the future.  It's mostly the stock setup right now, plus a few more titles on both ends.

We can investigate the system upon request.  Its a bit time consuming, but can be done.  Be specific in the report.


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## Cruentus

loki09789 said:
			
		

> Why not just do away with it entirely.  As I have said in the past, it sort of establishes a good old boy network of token power... seems like it would be a better place if we all just got equal 'rep point representation' and that was that.



So, you are suggesting "rep-point socialism"? ARE YOU A REP POINT COMMUNIST!?!

I kid...I kid... :CTF:


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## loki09789

Tulisan said:
			
		

> So, you are suggesting "rep-point socialism"? ARE YOU A REP POINT COMMUNIST!?!
> 
> I kid...I kid... :CTF:


more of a rep point direct democrat proponent.  You know, equal representation and all.

I refuse to name names though, Mr. McArthy dude.


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## Brother John

I see. 
I'll just go on posting what I post. 
Positive Points? I continue posting.
Negative Points? I continue posting.
Pretty much it.

Now, on to the politics of Rep points.
I think I'm more of a Rep-Libertarian. We should be free to give as many negative/positive rep-points as we wish as often as we wish without limitation!
I'm also against the redistribution of rep-points.


(help, my jokes have broken and I can't fix'm)
Your Brother
John


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## Brother John

Kaith Rustaz said:
			
		

> We could set it up that way, but decided against it.  Partially due to the retribution-wars I've seen on other boards.
> 
> If someone gets particularly nasty, let us know however.  Anyone found abusing the system will be dealt with.


I see. Thanks for explaining Kaith! 

BTW: Since I've got your ear (the owner/creator of MT) I'd like to tell you that I've really been enjoying MT a lot and appreciate it. Over all it's a very well done job.

Your Brother
John

PS: Those who think I'm sucking up to the head-honcho can bite me.
OR....just give me some negative points.  :uhyeah:


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## Brother John

Tulisan said:
			
		

> p.s. Bro-John...I hope you didn't mind my positive points I gave you, with my little quip to go with it!  :uhyeah:


OK, just went and read your "quip".
You really have a way with words Paul. You moved me. 
I wish I could print that page off and hang it in my Karate school, sort of as inspiration and also a witness to the greatness that is...
Your Brother
John


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## Cruentus

Brother John said:
			
		

> OK, just went and read your "quip".
> You really have a way with words Paul. You moved me.
> I wish I could print that page off and hang it in my Karate school, sort of as inspiration and also a witness to the greatness that is...
> Your Brother
> John



Oh shut up, brother john...just shut up.....you had me at hello. (whispers) You had me at he-llo.....(rolls in Bruce Springsting lyrics)


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## 7starmantis

I haven't read this entire thread from start to finish so if this has been addressed I appologize, but it might be neat to be able to see a list of reputation points you have given others as well as seeing what you have received. I don't know if it is even possible with the software but might be kind of cool.

7sm


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## Bob Hubbard

Theres a modification that I'm researching that will let you see who you gave what to.


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## jeffbeish

lurk out, lurk in


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## Flatlander

Now I would like to add to my previous thought here. I think that it would add a little credibility to the system to make it necessary to submit a reason for adding or subtracting from someone's reputation. This comes after losing *12 *points yesterday on one post, and I'm not really sure why. It seems to me that if someone has enough of an issue with a post to add/subtract credibility to/from a poster, they ought to have a reason. How can I improve if I don't understand what is wrong?

I am particularly disappointed at this event, as to deduduct 12 points from my reputation, that indicates to me this was a veteran of the board, whom should, by now, know how to justify their actions.:asian:

Thank You.


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## Cruentus

flatlander said:
			
		

> Now I would like to add to my previous thought here. I think that it would add a little credibility to the system to make it necessary to submit a reason for adding or subtracting from someone's reputation. This comes after losing *12 *points yesterday on one post, and I'm not really sure why. It seems to me that if someone has enough of an issue with a post to add/subtract credibility to/from a poster, they ought to have a reason. How can I improve if I don't understand what is wrong?
> 
> I am particularly disappointed at this event, as to deduduct 12 points from my reputation, that indicates to me this was a veteran of the board, whom should, by now, know how to justify their actions.:asian:
> 
> Thank You.



Wow, dude. Which post? I haven't seen any posts by you yet that deserve negative reps! But perhaps I haven't seen em all. Point me too it, if you could?


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## loki09789

flatlander said:
			
		

> Now I would like to add to my previous thought here. I think that it would add a little credibility to the system to make it necessary to submit a reason for adding or subtracting from someone's reputation. This comes after losing *12 *points yesterday on one post, and I'm not really sure why. It seems to me that if someone has enough of an issue with a post to add/subtract credibility to/from a poster, they ought to have a reason. How can I improve if I don't understand what is wrong?
> 
> I am particularly disappointed at this event, as to deduduct 12 points from my reputation, that indicates to me this was a veteran of the board, whom should, by now, know how to justify their actions.:asian:
> 
> Thank You.


This sort of 'internet good old boyism' is exactly why I really think it should either be done away with (because if it doesn't really mean anything it won't be missed) or people should only be able to influence each other for good or bad at a fixed rep point value regardless of seniority or time.  That would seem more democratic to me.

Having an explanation is a good idea too.


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## Flatlander

you can find it here 

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14769&page=2

12 points man.  That's like 13% of my rep without explanation.


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## Cruentus

Wow...that's pretty dumb, IMHO. I don't see how you did anything wrong there. Yea, if someone is going to ding you like that, they should have to explain!  :shrug:


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## Flatlander

Thank you for your help!  Only you know who you are!


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## Flatlander

Again, thanks to all of you.


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## Cruentus

I'd give you a bump too, but I already did earlier, so I have to wait a 100 posts before I can do it again!


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## Gary Crawford

I'm sure glad ya'll started this tread.I've had thoughts on this myself since I have been dinged a couple times myself,maybe I deserved one of them,but one I definatly didn't.I love the concept of reputation points.Rather than gripe about getting bad reputaion points,I like to throw out a posible policy.First,I don't think knowing who dinged me would do me any good.That actually could have a negative effect.Anybody should be able to give good reputaion points,but bad reputation points should only be given when agreed apon by two or more moderators.Just an idea.


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## Cruentus

Gary Crawford said:
			
		

> I'm sure glad ya'll started this tread.I've had thoughts on this myself since I have been dinged a couple times myself,maybe I deserved one of them,but one I definatly didn't.I love the concept of reputation points.Rather than gripe about getting bad reputaion points,I like to throw out a posible policy.First,I don't think knowing who dinged me would do me any good.That actually could have a negative effect.Anybody should be able to give good reputaion points,but bad reputation points should only be given when agreed apon by two or more moderators.Just an idea.



I think that would be far too complicated, no offense. I think that people should, in good faith, just put their reasons behind it if they give negatives.


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## Flatlander

Yes, with reasons, then at least thr receiver of the +/- rep can know why, and try to refrain from being abraisive, or whatever.:asian:


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## Bob Hubbard

I looked, and unfortunately, this version of the software doesn't have that option (that I can find).  There's rumblings of extended features in future versions, so we can see.


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## tshadowchaser

I like to explain why I give or take a point. I may only say 
 "great post # xxx" or "I agree nice way to put it" or "Damn that was a dumb statement" but I do try to say something. I think if I'm going to take the time to use the system I owe the guy/girl a reason.


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## Joe Eccleston

I have 3 small red cubes, and a collection of green ones.  It would definitely help if I knew who's giving me small red cubes, and why.  As for the system, in general, it's very helpful, just have the "reputation police" identitify themselves and state their reason why, or just a quick comment.:asian:


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## MA-Caver

Ever since this thread I've been careful to put my ID at the end of whatever comment I wish to give. I've yet to give a negative and hope not to. But even if I do I'll put my name along side and the reason why I "disagree" with that post.


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## Bob Hubbard

I've just gotten confirmation that requiring a comment isn't a supported feature of the current system.  I'll look into the modification site to see if anyone else has done the tweak yet, and what it entails.


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## Zoran

Okay I know what 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 and 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 is

 But what does 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 signify?


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## MA-Caver

Zoran said:
			
		

> Okay I know what
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> and
> 
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> is
> 
> But what does
> 
> 
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> signify?




Somewhere in the middle??? (taking a wild guess)

But I am curious as to how many points does each approval/disapproval give/take-away?? 
Right now I'm showing I have X number of points with X number of comments or whatever posts I got points on/off(??) the two don't jive. I could average it out but I don't think that'd be accurate ... eh?


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## Bob Hubbard

The number varies based on several factors.
Time as a member, how many posts you've made, and what your current reputation is.
People with neutral or negative reps can comment, but can't influence your reputation.


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## Flatlander

The gray box means that whoever tried to influence your rep. did't actually change the value because they haven't made enough posts yet.  I think you need to have 50 posts before you can influence others.


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## jfarnsworth

Weird,
I rarely post any more and had forgotten about these reputation points. I looked at my user cp this morning and seen that I had 3 red's and 2 gray boxes. :idunno:  I could care less but at least if people could leave an initial or something.


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## JDenz

awwww I don't have any green things lol


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## jeffbeish

jfarnsworth said:
			
		

> Weird,
> I rarely post any more and had forgotten about these reputation points. I looked at my user cp this morning and seen that I had 3 red's and 2 gray boxes. :idunno:  I could care less but at least if people could leave an initial or something.



paper tigers and flunkies complain about other posters.  Obviously these people have a different take on the 1st Amendment.  They are trolls of the third kind.


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## TigerWoman

I think we all have our bad moments, our bad posts too. We're human beings.  But even if a poster is completely wrong and someone thinks they should be "punished" with their disapproval, it doesn't help that poster become better.  That red button just says somebody out there doesn't like him/her enough to tell him nicely why he's wrong and isn't "big enough" to set aside emotion and not brave or sure enough of his opinion that he/she has to hide with anonymity.  But I don't think the disapproval thing is necessary unless someone is really being abusive. If the disapprova/difference can't be posted as a rebuttal in the thread, then it would be a better idea just to "PM" them but  be courteous. Isn't martial arts, at least in my opinion, about growing as a person in the process?

Another solution seems to have surfaced. Just complain here about bad rep points, with the post referenced, and let everybody decide.  I know I have given good rep points in response already.  So for the people who want to give bad rep, they may have just done a big favor instead.


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## Datu Tim Hartman

I have gotten good points and bad, it doesn't matter to me. I don't see why everyone is making such a big deal over it. This is just an internet forum, not the real world. If it was slander it would be one thing, but the amount of bad points only show up in your user section where no one else can see. I think some people are taking it WAAAAAY to serious.

Respectfully,
DPTJH aka Frodo :uhyeah:


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## Flatlander

Yes, but as a 'glorious beacon of light', you haven't much to worry about reputation wise.  It becomes alot more significant when you're just starting out, when, incidentally, it _seems _to be important.


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## loki09789

Datu Puti said:
			
		

> I have gotten good points and bad, it doesn't matter to me. I don't see why everyone is making such a big deal over it. This is just an internet forum, not the real world. If it was slander it would be one thing, but the amount of bad points only show up in your user section where no one else can see. I think some people are taking it WAAAAAY to serious.
> 
> Respectfully,
> DPTJH aka Frodo :uhyeah:


Slander is spoken, Libel is written.

As I have said in the past Mr. Hartman, how people behave on 'unreal' internet forums where there is no concieveable consequence or where they are free to flex 'internet muscle' can be more telling than when we are operating within the limits of the 'real world' of peer pressure, social norms, work environments, real threats of physical confrontation.

I find that internet 'freedom' via anonymity tends to bring out a person's true nature for good or ill.  Admitedly, I have given neg and pos rep points w/o a signature/ID in the past. After seeing how significant a demonstration of good character a clear, up front ID is to folks I will ID my rep point hits all the time.  

I mean, hell, I already have an up front profile so that people know who I am and that my account at least seems more credible.  I have nothing to hide so I don't leave any suspicion by being upfront there doing the same in Rep point distribution seems consistent.

People are talking about integrity and moral courage through these discussions. THey are talking about abuse of powers and unfair distribution of influence/power.....not a bad thing to discuss in my book.  

I don't think it is accurate to say that the internet is 'unreal' Tim, as much as 'cyber reality' because the people who enter electronically are just as real as the people who would enter the door of a school.  Since impressions here can have an impact on 'real' interactions, I would definitely say this is real.  Bob Hubbard earns a living from this making it very real in my eyes (probably Bob's too).  The question is whether it is significant IMO, not whether it is real.


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## loki09789

Here's a perfect example of what has been discussed. I just posted and went into some other pages, came back and saw that my rep points had been negatively hit with this as the signature:

"be wery wery qwiet...im hunting wedbwades. heheheheh."

Other than the fact that it would read better if read as:

"Be vewy vewy quiet.  I'm hunting wedbwades.  Heh heh heh heh heh"

if I was a betting man, I would say that 'wedbwades' is suppose to be "RedBlade." What is the point of making such a comment in conjunction to my last post?  Who would need to dredge up such an unrelated topic in the comment line?

That has to be left to speculation since the author wants to be less than upfront or use rep point commentary for anything constructive.  Petty, cowardly and juvenile.

Please no pity positive rep points as TW mentioned. For those who like to 'hide' your character is showing. You took me down from 259 to 244 with one blow. You must be a Master Black Belt/high rep point holder for such a powerful one stroke shot. Obviously such titles don't mean much in the way of responsible use of power in your mind.


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## Rich Parsons

loki09789 said:
			
		

> Slander is spoken, Libel is written.
> 
> As I have said in the past Mr. Hartman, how people behave on 'unreal' internet forums where there is no concieveable consequence or where they are free to flex 'internet muscle' can be more telling than when we are operating within the limits of the 'real world' of peer pressure, social norms, work environments, real threats of physical confrontation.
> 
> I find that internet 'freedom' via anonymity tends to bring out a person's true nature for good or ill.  Admitedly, I have given neg and pos rep points w/o a signature/ID in the past. After seeing how significant a demonstration of good character a clear, up front ID is to folks I will ID my rep point hits all the time.
> 
> I mean, hell, I already have an up front profile so that people know who I am and that my account at least seems more credible.  I have nothing to hide so I don't leave any suspicion by being upfront there doing the same in Rep point distribution seems consistent.
> 
> People are talking about integrity and moral courage through these discussions. THey are talking about abuse of powers and unfair distribution of influence/power.....not a bad thing to discuss in my book.
> 
> I don't think it is accurate to say that the internet is 'unreal' Tim, as much as 'cyber reality' because the people who enter electronically are just as real as the people who would enter the door of a school.  Since impressions here can have an impact on 'real' interactions, I would definitely say this is real.  Bob Hubbard earns a living from this making it very real in my eyes (probably Bob's too).  The question is whether it is significant IMO, not whether it is real.




I agree with most of this.

How people act, at work and here, also will tell how they will act otherewise.


As to reality, that is questionable, to some reality is defined by their perceptions. So,  you are right it is real to some.

As to Bob Hubbard the owner making a living from Martial Talk. I think he and the Federal tax system would disagree. Yet, you probably do not have that info. So it is understandable.


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## Rich Parsons

loki09789 said:
			
		

> Here's a perfect example of what has been discussed. I just posted and went into some other pages, came back and saw that my rep points had been negatively hit with this as the signature:
> 
> "be wery wery qwiet...im hunting wedbwades. heheheheh."
> 
> Other than the fact that it would read better if read as:
> 
> "Be vewy vewy quiet.  I'm hunting wedbwades.  Heh heh heh heh heh"
> 
> if I was a betting man, I would say that 'wedbwades' is suppose to be "RedBlade." What is the point of making such a comment in conjunction to my last post?  Who would need to dredge up such an unrelated topic in the comment line?
> 
> That has to be left to speculation since the author wants to be less than upfront or use rep point commentary for anything constructive.  Petty, cowardly and juvenile.
> 
> Please no pity positive rep points as TW mentioned. For those who like to 'hide' your character is showing. You took me down from 259 to 244 with one blow. You must be a Master Black Belt/high rep point holder for such a powerful one stroke shot. Obviously such titles don't mean much in the way of responsible use of power in your mind.




Paul,

I always sign my posts - Rich P or Rich Parsons. I usually give positive, and reserve the negative to deliver a message. Ask Paul Janulis, and I sign them as well. 

I would have to disagree as to titles, and leadership and feedback of their opinion. From what I read above you want only positive feedback. No negative feedback. You do not want to hear an opinion that disagrees with your own opinion.

Paul, please think about your own posts here. It may not be your intent. And as you said you cannot stop people reading something into them. Yet, when people are making these comments, treat it as constructive feedback. That is what I take it as. Yes, I have received negative feedback. I did not hunt them down. I did not complain. As an Assist. Admin, I could see who it was, and I have replied, telling them thank you for your feedback.

On a side not I do agree with how you edited your own feedback. It does read better the way you wrote it.


 :asian:


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## Datu Tim Hartman

loki09789 said:
			
		

> Slander is spoken, Libel is written.



Paul,
I think that your one of those people I was referring about. Take a pill or something.

Flatlander,
I try to give out good points every day and based of your previous post I know on at least once I have given you positive feed back.

I never look at a persons rep first; I look at the content of their posts. When I give out good or bad points I just do it. 
 :asian:


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## loki09789

Rich Parsons said:
			
		

> Paul,
> 
> I would have to disagree as to titles, and leadership and feedback of their opinion. From what I read above you want only positive feedback. No negative feedback. You do nto want to hear an opinion that disagrees with your own opinion.
> 
> Paul, please think about your own posts here. It may not be your intent. And as you said you cannot stop people reading thing into them. Yet, when people are making these comments, treat it as constructive feedback. That is what I take it as. Yes, I have received negative feedback. I did not hunt them down. I did not complain. As an Assist. Admin, I could see who it was, and I have replied, telling them thanking you for your feedback.
> 
> :asian:


Rich, I made it clear about what rank I was referring to: the MT account rank and how people wear/use such rank or such high rep point influence, not real world rank.

My commentary about 'negative feedback' was directed at the negative rep points in conjunction with a clearly pointed, yet unrelated/unsigned comment. It was not directed at the posts/posters presented here in the open.

Not looking for agreement only, as it should be clear from my 'no pity pos. rep points' comment and the fact that I commented on the comment/topic, not the commentor.

Unlike you, the rest of us are not asst Admins and don't have tools of back checking at our disposal for personal research to find out who gave us neg/pos rep points. If I asked you to find out and let me know who hit me with the negative rep points, would you? 

I am NOT asking because for you to use your power as an Admin for my personal issues. As far as I am concernd that is abuse of power, and do not want to be party to it.  It is no different in my mind to an LEO using his access to personal information to get a girls phone number for a date or to target a person and ticket the hell out of them based on a personal perception instead of fairness/principle.

I am not interested in hunting, only in members acting with character in an upfront fashion. The general tone of this whole topic is how the admin support team can help satisfy that request/need/will of the members. Bob has been open to such comments and seems to be moving in a direction to aswer that member need. 

The point about Bob using this forum for income was not a negative comment (please see my comment as 'constructive as well), simply a detail that supports my point about the reality/substantiallity of this internet forum. People also use this to form opinions/promote teachers,events and trends that impact the real world so I would say that also supports the 'reality' of the internet and such forums.

The personal comments about 'your take' on my motives or what I 'seem to be like' I have already addressed in other threads: Please talk to me direct via PM/Email for clarification/discussion. 

Based on models of harassment procedures anywhere else, I have asked directly for you to refrain from such comments because they are not welcome nor are they topical/productive IMO, toward me or anyone else. 

I have tried resolving this with you off line by PM/Email, per your suggestions in the past and you continue to do so. 

Now that I have made clear my wishes, if you continue to make personal comments about my arrogance, 'tone' or 'your take' on my personallity I will simply alert such behavior to the Mods and put you on my ignore list.

Can we go back to the topic of discussion please.


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## Cruentus

Umm... Don't you guys think that it's kind of dorky getting upset and argueing about rep points? That's almost like "Hey... your magic user threw fire on my dwarf, causing him to lose hitpoints! Waaahhhh!"

Also I would LOVE to see the look on the judges face if you tried to sue for libel because of "rep points," if it even made it that far...   

Your Friend,
Judge Judy


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## Rich Parsons

loki09789 said:
			
		

> Rich, I made it clear about what rank I was referring to: the MT account rank and how people wear/use such rank or such high rep point influence, not real world rank.
> 
> My commentary about 'negative feedback' was directed at the negative rep points in conjunction with a clearly pointed, yet unrelated/unsigned comment. It was not directed at the posts/posters presented here in the open.
> 
> Not looking for agreement only, as it should be clear from my 'no pity pos. rep points' comment and the fact that I commented on the comment/topic, not the commentor.
> 
> Unlike you, the rest of us are not asst Admins and don't have tools of back checking at our disposal for personal research to find out who gave us neg/pos rep points. If I asked you to find out and let me know who hit me with the negative rep points, would you?
> 
> I am NOT asking because for you to use your power as an Admin for my personal issues. As far as I am concernd that is abuse of power, and do not want to be party to it.  It is no different in my mind to an LEO using his access to personal information to get a girls phone number for a date or to target a person and ticket the hell out of them based on a personal perception instead of fairness/principle.
> 
> I am not interested in hunting, only in members acting with character in an upfront fashion. The general tone of this whole topic is how the admin support team can help satisfy that request/need/will of the members. Bob has been open to such comments and seems to be moving in a direction to aswer that member need.
> 
> The point about Bob using this forum for income was not a negative comment (please see my comment as 'constructive as well), simply a detail that supports my point about the reality/substantiallity of this internet forum. People also use this to form opinions/promote teachers,events and trends that impact the real world so I would say that also supports the 'reality' of the internet and such forums.
> 
> The personal comments about 'your take' on my motives or what I 'seem to be like' I have already addressed in other threads: Please talk to me direct via PM/Email for clarification/discussion.
> 
> Based on models of harassment procedures anywhere else, I have asked directly for you to refrain from such comments because they are not welcome nor are they topical/productive IMO, toward me or anyone else.
> 
> I have tried resolving this with you off line by PM/Email, per your suggestions in the past and you continue to do so.
> 
> Now that I have made clear my wishes, if you continue to make personal comments about my arrogance, 'tone' or 'your take' on my personallity I will simply alert such behavior to the Mods and put you on my ignore list.
> 
> Can we go back to the topic of discussion please.



Paul,

Even if I wanted to help you with who, gave you the negative reports, I cannot. The tools are not set up for that. Bob, and the owner coudl spend many hours searching the database by hand and other tasks, to try to find out, if you wish to file a complaint, about it being abused, such as with language.

As to PM, well you did not reply to my last replies to you. I did not know where we stood. And then I come here, and find what I see as something that looks like it is from the past. Hence I replied, to address your comments and concerns.


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## Datu Tim Hartman

Tulisan said:
			
		

> Also I would LOVE to see the look on the judges face if you tried to sue for libel because of "rep points," if it even made it that far...
> 
> Your Friend,
> Judge Judy



Hey Judy,

Maybe we should form the point police? Then maybe chapters of the guardian pointers?

Yours,
Curtis Sliwa 
:boing2:


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## Cruentus

I'll start the Michigan chapter of the point gaurdians!

Do I get to wear a red bonnet?

Your comrade,

Keiji (DUKE) Oda  :armed:


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## jfarnsworth

Tulisan said:
			
		

> I'll start the Michigan chapter of the point gaurdians!
> 
> Do I get to wear a red bonnet?



Now that brought a smile to my face. That was a good one.

On another note. I don't have enough time in my day to worry about who likes me and who doesn't. People may like my posts and may not. I certainly won't lose sleep over it.


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## loki09789

Rich Parsons said:
			
		

> Paul,
> 
> Even if I wanted to help you with who, gave you the negative reports, I cannot. The tools are not set up for that. Bob, and the owner coudl spend many hours searching the database by hand and other tasks, to try to find out, if you wish to file a complaint, about it being abused, such as with language.
> 
> As to PM, well you did not reply to my last replies to you. I did not know where we stood. And then I come here, and find what I see as something that looks like it is from the past. Hence I replied, to address your comments and concerns.


That's funny, I have two replies to your account in my sent files.  I know I replied.

Funny how my posting concerns over rep points draws such fire with three previous pages of concerns from others not getting a lick of bullying and abuse.  If you think these types of concerns are a waste of time, don't waste your time here.


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## Emptyglass

Hi all:

My opinion: Reputation is bull. Lots of people have petty jealousies, rivalries and other such stuff. It's easy to be this way on the internet so don't get worked up over it. Who cares? I thought it was interesting at one point but have realized it's not worth considering. Give good and bad points where you feel it is appropriate don't worry what others think as long as you back up your arguments with solid factual information that you are willing to stand by with evidence you feel is credible.

Take it for what it is worth and don't sweat the rep points. I feel it's not a real fair system since it is weighted on various factors instead of being a 1:1 system anyway. I've been on the receiving end of anonymous bad rep as well but that doesn't stop me from helping and objecting where I feel it is appropriate.

It's just the way it is on this forum.

Remember: Good information is good information. If someone says something that makes you think or helps you out, who cares what their "reputation" is?

Thanks,

Rich Curren


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## Emptyglass

loki09789 said:
			
		

> That's funny, I have two replies to your account in my sent files.  I know I replied.
> 
> Funny how my posting concerns over rep points draws such fire with three previous pages of concerns from others not getting a lick of bullying and abuse.  If you think these types of concerns are a waste of time, don't waste your time here.



Paul:



Respectfully,

Rich Curren


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## Emptyglass

According to my current rep points, I have "some shameless behavior in my past."

Well, I can't argue with that.   

Thanks,

Rich Curren


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## TigerWoman

loki09789 said:
			
		

> That's funny, I have two replies to your account in my sent files.  I know I replied.
> 
> Funny how my posting concerns over rep points draws such fire with three previous pages of concerns from others not getting a lick of bullying and abuse.  If you think these types of concerns are a waste of time, don't waste your time here.



Thats true...
TW


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## loki09789

Rich Parsons said:
			
		

> Paul,
> 
> Hence I replied, to address your comments and concerns.


Thus ignoring my request and conditions, whether you read it in PM or on this public posting format. It doesn't mean much in the long run but I am going to honor my statements from earlier as a matter of integrity/principle in the least.

post script 11:39 pm (e.s.t.):

This edit is a few minutes after the original text.  I just tried to put Parsons on my ignore list and found out that I am not allowed to because of his Asst Admin status... so I will have to just consciously ignore him if I can't electronically ignore him.


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## Tgace

loki09789 said:
			
		

> That's funny, I have two replies to your account in my sent files. I know I replied.
> 
> Funny how my posting concerns over rep points draws such fire with three previous pages of concerns from others not getting a lick of bullying and abuse. If you think these types of concerns are a waste of time, don't waste your time here.


To quote my mother..."THIS IS WHY WE CANT HAVE NICE THINGS!"


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## Rich Parsons

loki09789 said:
			
		

> That's funny, I have two replies to your account in my sent files.  I know I replied.
> 
> Funny how my posting concerns over rep points draws such fire with three previous pages of concerns from others not getting a lick of bullying and abuse.  If you think these types of concerns are a waste of time, don't waste your time here.




Paul Martin sir,

I also have those copies, you mentioned, yet, you had the chance to make your demands on how this was going to play out. I replied with my demands. No reply at all from you with my last post of three ( one Split int three for size ) to answer you, in my mind does not constitute, any agreement. The negotiation was still going on.

I do have a rep question.  If rep does not mean anything to you then how come you had the rep number memorized from before the negative hit?

Also to rep qustions, the last time there a big ta-do here with Balintawak, I received a PM to call someone, to get told I was wrong. I had a nice long talk with this gentleman, and read him the actual posts, and he was surprised, that I was right. So, I think in this case you are handling it correctly. We both know you are using the system, and I have personally made your issues a point of discussion. Thank you for your feedback, and please allow the team time to investigate and discuss.


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## Rich Parsons

TigerWoman said:
			
		

> Thats true...
> TW




The issue is under investigation. 

Thank You


----------



## Rich Parsons

Emptyglass said:
			
		

> Paul:
> 
> 
> 
> Respectfully,
> 
> Rich Curren



Hey Rich C et al,

I respect your right to express your opinion. Yet, you do not have all the information. Read my last reply back to Paul M. He did not reply back to me after I made my counter demands to his initial demands. the negotiation was still on going.

It has been pointed out that the teams of people on both sides of a far in the past discussion keep coming back to support each other, when they were not involved with the current discussion. This adds additional issues. By no means is this an attack on you. I am just asking you to be bigger than some of the others involved, on both sides. If this could be resolved between jsut two people, and not all their friends, it probably would get over much sooner and easier. So, RIch C. I do apologize for I have not asked you this in the past. This is not directed to you alone, it is also directed to everyone else who might be involved or think they are involved, to just step back, and allow the two people involved to hash it out. I wish to thank you for your contributions here and in the past though.


 :asian:


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## KenpoTess

Mod Note

Thread Locked pending Review

~Tess
-MT S. Mod-


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## Bob Hubbard

Pre-Review Comment:

The system as it stands is under reconsideration.
Comments cannot be required as part of the default-setup.
Changing that requires code rewriting.
Other comments and concerns are being addressed.
The personal 'heat' between certain individuals needs to stop as it seems to poison -every- thread involving them.

The admin team will be discussing the other aspects over the next few days.


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## Michael Billings

Review Note: as a matter of interest - (and I do not know the Admins personally, and by profession am required to maintain a professional distance) Rich has turned it over to the other Mods and Admins, which he has in the past also when heated issues come up. I find it professional in the extreme the way he says, "hey guys, I am involved in this, treat me as you would any other member involved in a conflict". Tempers sometimes run high, but when the conflict continues between members, across threads, the interpersonal conflict often becomes the issue, not the topic of the thread.

 It is still under review by all Admin & Mods.

 -Michael


----------

