# Secrets of Kalis Illustrimo book?



## Crash14 (Apr 27, 2003)

Has anyone read the book 'Secrets of Kalis Illustrimo'? Is it any good, I'm looking to possibly get it online but don't know if it's mostly history or techniques realted.


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## lhommedieu (Apr 27, 2003)

Haven't read the book yet - but will pick it up at some point.  Their "Complete Siniwali" book is pretty good - shows atypical siniwali patterns.

You would probably get a better idea of Kalis Illustrisimo from Bakbakan's video series than from reading the book - although it's probably pretty good.  Re. the history of Kalis Illustrisimo, Mark Wiley has information in both Filipino Fighting Arts andFilipino Martial Culture.  John Chow also has a brief history at:  http://home.netvigator.com/~kimfung1/kaliillustrisimo1.htm

Best,

Steve Lamade


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## John J (Apr 27, 2003)

A non-bias opinion  

In short, the opening is on History & Development, which makes up less than 20% of the material. The remainder of the book takes a look at the fundamentals of the art from stances & footwork to fighting techniques (with both stick and sword applications) including disarms with the panyo or handkerchief. The last chapter summarizes the fighting principles & strategies.

All in all, it was a good book that met it's objective; to introduce the fighting art of the late GM Antonio "Tatang" Ilustrisimo.

Yours in the Arts,

Guro John 
BAKBAKAN International
www.bakbakan.com


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## Dan Anderson (Apr 27, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Crash14 _
> *Has anyone read the book 'Secrets of Kalis Illustrimo'? Is it any good, I'm looking to possibly get it online but don't know if it's mostly history or techniques realted. *



I've got it and it's a good combination of both.
Yours,
Dan Anderson


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## Brian Johns (Apr 27, 2003)

> I've got it and it's a good combination of both.
> Yours,
> Dan Anderson



I have the book also and agree with Dan's assessment of it as well.

Take care,
Brian Johns


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## Guro Harold (Apr 27, 2003)

I have the book too.

It is a good reference book!!!

Get the Complete Siniwali book too, it has some great patterns.

Maybe you can get John J to autograph one for you.


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## Rob Wilson (Apr 27, 2003)

Hi there,

My two cents worth: it is a very interesting read with a good amount of detail but most importantly it seems to provide some insight into the principles of the art and how it is different or similar from others. Also, it is reall cool to learn how tough it was for the current masters to be accepted as students by the late Illustrisimo. A great read!

Thanks 

Rob


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## moromoro (Apr 28, 2003)

i also have the book it is a good overview, if you can get a hold of the mandirigma video series of kalis illustrisimo (3 tape set) featuring GM tatang illustrisimo...... get it,,, it is far more comprehensive than the book everything on the book is on that video and more much more......


thanks

terry


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## John J (Apr 28, 2003)

As mentioned on a previous thread, the KI videos series from Mandirigma is more demonstrative rather than instructional.  
Tatang was 86 when the video was shot and his ability to react & counter is still amazing to watch. He was a true Warrior!

Bakbakan International has a limited amount of these videos & other titles. If anyone is interested, contact Master Galang at:  arjee@aol

1. Kali Ilustrisimo volumes 1 - 3. Tatang, T. Diego, 
Y. Romo, C. Ricketts and R. Galang.
2. Lightning Scientific Arnis - GM Ben Lema, Elmer Ybanez and Vic
Sanchez. 
3. Modern Arnis - 1 & 2. Features Rodel Dagooc and his
group
4. Lapunti Arnis De Abanico -  GM Caburnay & Johnny
Chiuten. 

John


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## arnisador (Dec 1, 2003)

http://www.stick-and-knife.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl


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## CiNcO dOsE (Dec 3, 2003)

how many sets of kali ilustrisimo videos are there?!

1) mandirigma series, 3 vol
2) christopher ricketts, 4 vol series

are there any more?!  ive read a UP production or something somewhere, is this another set?!


i havent seen the mandirigma series on the net, where might id be able to find them?!

ive got the secrets of kalis ilustrisimo and complete sinawali books.  i havent started reading the complete sinawali, but im currently enjoying the secrets of kalis ilustrisimo book


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## Joe Eccleston (Mar 11, 2004)

I came across this book today, while perusing through at Borders.  It was the only book in the Martial Arts shelf about Filipino Martial Arts, so I took it off the shelf, ordered some coffee, took a seat and started reading.

I especially liked the Villabrille expose, regarding his training with Ilustrisimo, the absence of the word 'Kali' until this word pops up out of nowhere in Hawaii, and the debunking of the whole 'Blind Princess of Gandara' story.

I also especially enjoyed the Balintawak connection.  Tatang Ilustrisimo was from Cebu, and actually met Timor Maranga as a young boy while serving in prison.  It turns out Timor Maranga, who grew up to be one of Balintawak's patriarchs, learned a few techniques from Tatang Ilustrisimo.

Tony Diego and Yuli Romo, both from Cebu also, trained in Balintawak before meeting Tatang Ilustrisimo.  Is it just me or do all great eskrimadors from the Philippines hail from the island of Cebu?  Very interesting indeed.


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## Airyu@hotmail.com (Mar 12, 2004)

Hello Everyone,

The book is a good read, and covers the basic ideas of K.I., as practiced by the Bakbakan, in a well thought out manner. We are all lucky to have the opportunities to attend recent and upcoming Kalis Ilustrisimo seminars, or training through John J. or Ray Floro as they are out and about in the USA! Attend the events and gain some first hand knowledge of what K.I. is all about.

Train Hard it is the Way!

Gumagalang
Steve L.

www.Bujinkandojo.net


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## Rich Parsons (Mar 12, 2004)

Joe Eccleston said:
			
		

> I came across this book today, while perusing through at Borders. It was the only book in the Martial Arts shelf about Filipino Martial Arts, so I took it off the shelf, ordered some coffee, took a seat and started reading.
> 
> I especially liked the Villabrille expose, regarding his training with Ilustrisimo, the absence of the word 'Kali' until this word pops up out of nowhere in Hawaii, and the debunking of the whole 'Blind Princess of Gandara' story.
> 
> ...


Timor Maranga went on to be founder and Grandmaster of Tres
Personas Eskrima de Combate Super Kuwentada System. Therefore I would not be surprised that he took some techniques from everyone he encountered either as a training partner or with someone he was "Playing" with. He was a talented person.

As to the Greats all coming from Cebu. I would have to qualify this. Cebu City is the second largest city in the PI. Therefore, the old timers that taught their family styles or local village style elsewhere may not be as well known. i.e. Gat Puno Abon Beat. I have never trained with him, yet he has knowledge to share and is considered a relatively knowledgeable person in FMA. If my memory is correct he is not from Cebu. He is also the head of his system. It is nice to have pride in what you train in. Just remember that there are greats all over, and they can be found almost any where.

Now, I would agree that there is a lot of knowledge about Eskrima from Cebu, and that is also in print out there.
:asian:


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## bart (Mar 12, 2004)

Joe Eccleston said:
			
		

> Is it just me or do all great eskrimadors from the Philippines hail from the island of Cebu?  Very interesting indeed.




I agree with Rich that it has somewhat to do with the size of Cebu City and it being a large economic center attracting all kinds of people for work and business. But it also has something to do with established organizations. The Labangon fencing club was singular in it's existence as an organization. The Doce Pares club that followed was also a very successful "organization". The existence of organized bodies helps immensely in propagation of any system, be it a martial art, charitable organization, political lobby, etc. Almost every other system to come out of Cebu City has a hierarchy or organizational structure. This helps in pooling funds, brainpower, and in some cases supercedes personal egos that may otherwise conflict greatly and act to restrict growth. Doce Pares International Inc. of GM Dionisio Canete is registered as a national corporation and it is also one of the most proliferate FMA styles around. I think that in Cebu City they just happened to organize early on and that helped foster the growth and spread of those systems.


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## arnisandyz (Mar 12, 2004)

Gat Puno Abon Beat. I have never trained with him, yet he has knowledge to share and is considered a relatively knowledgeable person in FMA.

Beat, as well as Raffy Pambuan is from somewhee in Laguna, (Southern Luzon). My family is from Santa Rosa also in Laguna.  I'm also fortunate that both of them are here in Florida!  My uncles a long time ago taught me a style that they learned from somebody in this area. I have come to the assumption that many systems out of Laguna are largo mano - (just a guess based on my experiences).  My explanation by my uncles was that the style they showed me is from a sandy beachy area so you must have positioning and secure footwork rather than quick footwork. 

Andy


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## Rich Parsons (Mar 12, 2004)

bart said:
			
		

> I agree with Rich that it has somewhat to do with the size of Cebu City and it being a large economic center attracting all kinds of people for work and business. But it also has something to do with established organizations. The Labangon fencing club was singular in it's existence as an organization. The Doce Pares club that followed was also a very successful "organization". The existence of organized bodies helps immensely in propagation of any system, be it a martial art, charitable organization, political lobby, etc. Almost every other system to come out of Cebu City has a hierarchy or organizational structure. This helps in pooling funds, brainpower, and in some cases supercedes personal egos that may otherwise conflict greatly and act to restrict growth. Doce Pares International Inc. of GM Dionisio Canete is registered as a national corporation and it is also one of the most proliferate FMA styles around. I think that in Cebu City they just happened to organize early on and that helped foster the growth and spread of those systems.


Yes, What Bart Said. Having industry to allow for expendable income and time to train allows for the existence of such a club. And yes this club / organization was almost unique, it was stil not unique, as Abon has pointed out to others elsewhere. So, I apologize for not being clear in the first place, and say thank you to Bart for his point and clarification.
:asian:


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## Joe Eccleston (Mar 12, 2004)

Are there other systems outside of CEBU that specialize in inside fighting or corto? or are CEBUANO eskrimadors the only ones who specialize in this range? if there are other in-fighters, where are they from in the Philippines?


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## Rich Parsons (Mar 12, 2004)

Joe Eccleston said:
			
		

> Are there other systems outside of CEBU that specialize in inside fighting or corto? or are CEBUANO eskrimadors the only ones who specialize in this range? if there are other in-fighters, where are they from in the Philippines?


 
Angel Cabales of Cabales Seradda Escrima is corto , I do not know from where he was from originally. I can do some more research later.


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## bart (Mar 12, 2004)

I think that Angel Cabales was from the Visayas: Antique, Panay. I believe his friend/teacher Dizon was from Cebu or lived there at one point.


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## Joe Eccleston (Mar 12, 2004)

I think Felicisimo Dizon, the teacher of Angel Cabales, was also mentioned in the Ilustrisimo book. He was also from Cebu, older than Tatang Ilustrisimo, and contemporary of Melecio and Agapito Ilustrisimo (Uncles of Tatang Ilustrisimo?). Both Felicisimo Dizon and Agapito Ilustrisimo were members of an older Doce Pares group in Mount Banahaw, I believe in the 1890s.

Which takes us back to Cebu.


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## CiNcO dOsE (Mar 12, 2004)

nene tortal: pekiti tirsia: from negros occidental


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## Cthulhu (Mar 13, 2004)

Good book.  I recommend it.

Cthulhu


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## Airyu@hotmail.com (Mar 15, 2004)

Joe,

In the USA, Sayoc Kali also practices in the "corto" range. This past weekend we hosted Ray Floro for another two day event on Kalis Ilustrisimo, and what a great time we had. The seminar was fairly small and this gave everyone time to spar one on one with Ray! Also, it was great to see some video of Tatang Ilustrisimo training with various his students, with live machetes!! I'll be posting a review ups soon and then some video clips as well, so stay tuned.

Gumagalang
Guro Steve L.

www.Bujinkandojo.net


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## OULobo (Mar 15, 2004)

Okay, here is a question for all the FMA guys here. Can anyone find a good connection between Max Seirmento (Sp) and Antonio Ilustrisimo? I have a teacher that learned from a man named Seirmento, who learned form Ilustrisimo. I know that both names are pretty common in the PIs, but I am trying to find a fairly solid connection.


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## Joe Eccleston (Mar 15, 2004)

Max Sarmiento was the student of Angel Cabales in Stockton, California.  Angel Cabales was the student of Felicisimo Dizon.  Felicisimo Dizon was a contemporary of Melicio Ilustrisimo and Agapito Ilustrisimo.  Melicio Ilustrisimo and Agapito Ilustrisimo were both uncles of Antonio Ilustrisimo, while learning also from Isidro Ilustrisimo, his father.  Regino Ilustrisimo is Antonio Ilustrisimo's cousin or uncle? who immigrated to Stockton, California.  Max Sarmiento was also one of Regino Ilustrisimo's students.  Maybe that's the "Ilustrisimo" connection?


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## OULobo (Mar 16, 2004)

Joe Eccleston said:
			
		

> Max Sarmiento was the student of Angel Cabales in Stockton, California.  Angel Cabales was the student of Felicisimo Dizon.  Felicisimo Dizon was a contemporary of Melicio Ilustrisimo and Agapito Ilustrisimo.  Melicio Ilustrisimo and Agapito Ilustrisimo were both uncles of Antonio Ilustrisimo, while learning also from Isidro Ilustrisimo, his father.  Regino Ilustrisimo is Antonio Ilustrisimo's cousin or uncle? who immigrated to Stockton, California.  Max Sarmiento was also one of Regino Ilustrisimo's students.  Maybe that's the "Ilustrisimo" connection?



That's a good connection. The way it was explained to me was that an instructor of mine learned from a man named Sarmiento (not necessarily Max) who learned from three masters, one of which was Antonio Ilustrisimo. I guess I'm mostly looking for any other known students of Tatang that weren't listed in the book.


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## Airyu@hotmail.com (Mar 16, 2004)

Hello Everyone,

You will notice that Ray Floro, is not listed in the lineage charts due to some interesting politics. Actually, his picture is even in the book and he isn't listed in the titles. Go to:  http://www.users.bigpond.com/finehoned/
and you can see Ray's biography. Ray shared with me some great video of Tatang Ilustrisimo training with Tony Diego, etc. awesome stuff!

Train Hard it is the Way!
Gumagalang
Guro Steve L.

www.Sayoc.com
www.Bujinkandojo.net


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## Black Grass (Mar 17, 2004)

Airyu@hotmail.com said:
			
		

> Hello Everyone,
> 
> You will notice that Ray Floro, is not listed in the lineage charts due to some interesting politics. Actually, his picture is even in the book and he isn't listed in the titles.



There are lots of guys that are not listed in the lineage. To me it seems they only listed first generaion students. I not sure what politics have to do with it. 

Black Grass


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## Airyu@hotmail.com (Mar 17, 2004)

Hello Vince,

If you look at the chart, it does not distinguish 1st generation as a criteria. As well, Raymond trained directly with Tatang Ilustrisimo (from 1987-1997), Tony Diego, Romy Macapagal etc. at the same time that several others on that chart were involved in training. He was directly authorized by Tatang Ilustrisimo and Tony Diego to teach Kalis Ilustrisimo in 1991, "as the most senior, creditable and qualified Instructor to teach Kali Ilustrisimo in Australia."

There was a political fallout/break in an organization, and as such you don't see his name listed.

Gumagalang
Guro Steve L.

www.Sayoc.com
www.Bujinkandojo.net


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## Joe Eccleston (Mar 17, 2004)

In the book, Diego, Romo, Sulite, and Macapagal began training with Tatang Ilustrisimo in the 70s.  That's probably where all the first generation vs. second string politics began.  Just a thought...


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## Black Grass (Mar 19, 2004)

Joe Eccleston said:
			
		

> In the book, Diego, Romo, Sulite, and Macapagal began training with Tatang Ilustrisimo in the 70s.  That's probably where all the first generation vs. second string politics began.  Just a thought...



Well Willey didn't start training until the 90's, but then again I don't think he belongs in the list with Diego, Romo, Ricketts, Macapagal, Galang....

But he wroe the foreward and I think he was the editor so...


Vince
Black Grass


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## arnisandyz (Mar 19, 2004)

Joe Eccleston said:
			
		

> In the book, Diego, Romo, Sulite, and Macapagal began training with Tatang Ilustrisimo in the 70s.  That's probably where all the first generation vs. second string politics began.  Just a thought...




I read this book, but its been a while and I don't remember if this is where I heard it from....about how Illustrisimo was an incredible fighter, but not a great teacher and it was basically these first generation students that trained with him and helped develop the system based on what they learned.  I think it might have been Sulite who said you had to get Tatang Illustrisimo to "do something" to you and you try and figure out what he did.


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## Black Grass (Mar 19, 2004)

Airyu@hotmail.com said:
			
		

> Hello Vince,
> 
> If you look at the chart, it does not distinguish 1st generation as a criteria. As well, Raymond trained directly with Tatang Ilustrisimo (from 1987-1997), Tony Diego, Romy Macapagal etc. at the same time that several others on that chart were involved in training. He was directly authorized by Tatang Ilustrisimo and Tony Diego to teach Kalis Ilustrisimo in 1991, "as the most senior, creditable and qualified Instructor to teach Kali Ilustrisimo in Australia."
> 
> ...



This is not entirely true, He was certified by Tatang in 91 , but the certificate stating him "as the most senior, creditable and qualified Instructor to teach Kali Ilustrisimo in Australia." was signed in 2002 by Tony Diego, Tommy Dy and Romy Macapagal.

In any case he is listed in the book along with the other ILustrisimo instructors Rahneer Favis and John Chow.

Regards,
Vince
Black Grass


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## Black Grass (Mar 19, 2004)

ment to say"

In any case he is listed in the book along with the other Australian Ilustrisimo instructors Rahneer Favis and John Chow.


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## Airyu@hotmail.com (Mar 19, 2004)

Hello Vince,

Yes, that quote was from the 2002 certificate, from the heir of the Ilustrisimo art, Tony Diego. 

You can see all three recommendations on his website, the two letters are from Tatang in '91', which authorize him to open schools, and teach Kalis Ilustrisimo in Australia. John and Rahneer I believe, were also Ray's students at one time. Also, he is mentioned as a practitioner, but the original point was that he is not listed in the "Lineage", especially due to some "politics". (Every system has them...) 

I just watched a video clip of him training with Tatang, always a pleasure to watch Tatang play with his early students!!

Gumagalang
Guro Steve L.

www.Sayoc.com
www.Bujinkandojo.net


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## dos (Jan 2, 2007)

Joe Eccleston said:


> In the book, Diego, Romo, Sulite, and Macapagal began training with Tatang Ilustrisimo in the 70s.  That's probably where all the first generation vs. second string politics began.  Just a thought...




Sulite started training in the 80's. Macapagal started training in 1988.

Ricketts started training in 1984 mostly under Diego and not much under Ilustrisimo directly. Rey Galang learned from Ricketts. Galang had little direct training from Ilustrisimo. Both Ricketts and Galang preferred to take videos of Ilustrisimo and then learn from the tapes.


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## John J (Jan 16, 2007)

Originally Posted by *Joe Eccleston* 

 
_In the book, Diego, Romo, Sulite, and Macapagal began training with Tatang Ilustrisimo in the 70s. That's probably where all the first generation vs. second string politics began. Just a thought..._



> Sulite started training in the 80's. Macapagal started training in 1988.
> 
> Ricketts started training in 1984 mostly under Diego and not much under Ilustrisimo directly. Rey Galang learned from Ricketts. Galang had little direct training from Ilustrisimo. Both Ricketts and Galang preferred to take videos of Ilustrisimo and then learn from the tapes.


 
Glad you caught your own mistakes..."dos".  Romy was after Topher and yes, Edgar did not start till the 80's. Although you are INCORRECT again about the training. Topher did start with Tony early on but later went on to study mostly with Tatang. 

Regarding video, I have countless hours of footage from the late 80's up until Tatang passed and Topher was always training with Tatang in it and NOT behind the camera. 

You should have your fact straight before making a post especially if it is your 1st.


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