# Building and using shooting barricades



## Runs With Fire (Jul 7, 2020)

Does anyone have input on shooting barricades? Not shooting a barricade, but using a barricade in firearm drills? My group will be building a few to help us work on using cover and shooting from barriers/ around corners.  We want a rooftop style one with asphalt shingles, and the standard one with steps on one side and different sized holes cut in it.


 

 


I'm gonna build them as soon as I get time.  We've got to up our firearm training as a group.  We will be using predominantly ar15 and ak47 style rifles and carbines.


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## CB Jones (Jul 7, 2020)

Do not paint them.  If you shoot against them the paint will rub off on your gun.


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## drop bear (Jul 7, 2020)

I just do some corrugated iron and tires. Mostly squares because it is easier.


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## jobo (Jul 7, 2020)

Runs With Fire said:


> Does anyone have input on shooting barricades? Not shooting a barricade, but using a barricade in firearm drills? My group will be building a few to help us work on using cover and shooting from barriers/ around corners.  We want a rooftop style one with asphalt shingles, and the standard one with steps on one side and different sized holes cut in it.View attachment 22961 View attachment 22962 View attachment 22963
> I'm gonna build them as soon as I get time.  We've got to up our firearm training as a group.  We will be using predominantly ar15 and ak47 style rifles and carbines.


is someone shooting back?


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## dvcochran (Jul 7, 2020)

Runs With Fire said:


> Does anyone have input on shooting barricades? Not shooting a barricade, but using a barricade in firearm drills? My group will be building a few to help us work on using cover and shooting from barriers/ around corners.  We want a rooftop style one with asphalt shingles, and the standard one with steps on one side and different sized holes cut in it.View attachment 22961 View attachment 22962 View attachment 22963
> I'm gonna build them as soon as I get time.  We've got to up our firearm training as a group.  We will be using predominantly ar15 and ak47 style rifles and carbines.


For me the biggest question is how realistic do you want it? Using shingles are a very good idea. In my experience most barricade training is great for when you get to the shooting position but do nothing for getting there. Setting up obstacles including height are paramount if you are serious about the functionality.


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## Runs With Fire (Jul 9, 2020)

jobo said:


> is someone shooting back?


Seriously?


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## Runs With Fire (Jul 9, 2020)

T


dvcochran said:


> For me the biggest question is how realistic do you want it? Using shingles are a very good idea. In my experience most barricade training is great for when you get to the shooting position but do nothing for getting there. Setting up obstacles including height are paramount if you are serious about the functionality.


yeah, the difference in shooting down off a roof for example, is a big one.


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## jobo (Jul 9, 2020)

Runs With Fire said:


> Seriously?


 i just wonder why you were hiding behind things, it sees a bit over the top if its just bottles or squirrels

if your practising for some real world scenario, if would seem more sensible to practising hiding behind real world objects like trees perhaps ? rather than build some elaborate device your unlikely to have handy when the SHTF


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## dvcochran (Jul 9, 2020)

jobo said:


> i just wonder why you were hiding behind things, it sees a bit over the top if its just bottles or squirrels
> 
> if your practising for some real world scenario, if would seem more sensible to practising hiding behind real world objects like trees perhaps ? rather than build some elaborate device your unlikely to have handy when the SHTF


You are an open book Jobo, I will give you that. Often to a fault.


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## Runs With Fire (Jul 9, 2020)

jobo said:


> i just wonder why you were hiding behind things, it sees a bit over the top if its just bottles or squirrels
> 
> if your practising for some real world scenario, if would seem more sensible to practising hiding behind real world objects like trees perhaps ? rather than build some elaborate device your unlikely to have handy when the SHTF


 the goofy looking barricade is considered the number 1 best design for simulating all probable scenarios of shooting from behind cover or concealment in an urban or suburban environment.


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## jobo (Jul 9, 2020)

Runs With Fire said:


> the goofy looking barricade is considered the number 1 best design for simulating all probable scenarios of shooting from behind cover or concealment in an urban or suburban environment.


ok so which common urban feature is it simulating ? ive walk for many thousands of miles and never see anything closely resembling that, there does seem to be an inordinate number of walls though, urban environments dont seem at all short of walls

it wasn't the manufactures web sight you got this info off, was it. they seem to have a vested interest in not saying, just look for a wall to get behind


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## Runs With Fire (Jul 9, 2020)

Every step, curb, gate, fence, pallet,  roadblock, window, under a vehicle, or around a corner.


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## jobo (Jul 9, 2020)

Runs With Fire said:


> Every step, curb, gate, fence, pallet,  roadblock, window, under a vehicle, or around a corner.


 they have a similarity to that goofy equipment ????? i think not, new glasses required


perhaps you could illiterate the similarity with a few pics, you must have very strange curbs if they look like that


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## Runs With Fire (Jul 9, 2020)

jobo said:


> they have a similarity to that goofy equipment ????? i think not, new glasses required
> 
> 
> perhaps you could illiterate the similarity with a few pics, you must have very strange curbs if they look like that


Perhaps you shouldn't mock someone well versed in a style you don't understand.


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## jobo (Jul 9, 2020)

Runs With Fire said:


> Perhaps you shouldn't mock someone well versed in a style you don't understand.


i understand what curbs look like.

, im not mocking it or you, but it is difficult not to be slightly amused by someone preparing for urban warfare, by building accoutrements not found in a urban environment and insisting that despite their complete absence from the likely field of battle this is a good investment in time money and effort.

i bet your dressing up in camouflage as well


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## Runs With Fire (Jul 9, 2020)

jobo said:


> i understand what curbs look like.
> 
> , im not mocking it or you, but it is difficult not to be slightly amused by someone preparing for urban warfare, by building accoutrements not found in a urban environment and insisting that despite their complete absence from the likely field of battle this is a good investment in time money and effort.
> 
> i bet your dressing up in camouflage as well


Heavy bags aren't found in the street either, but we all use them.


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## jobo (Jul 9, 2020)

Runs With Fire said:


> Heavy bags aren't found in the street either, but we all use them.


i don't,  but they are a vague aproximation of the target, you still have targets i assume, so ira not really the same thing

tou said they represented the enviroment, they clearly are not the target, unless your shooting them up as well,!


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## CB Jones (Jul 9, 2020)

The step shape allows you to work on shooting from behind barriers at different heights which requires different body positions.  Why build 8 different walls at 8 different heights when you can build one barricade that you can work all the different heights from.

The holes also to force you to shoot from different body positions.

That is what its purpose is.


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## drop bear (Jul 9, 2020)

drop bear said:


> I just do some corrugated iron and tires. Mostly squares because it is easier.


So this is what we made.


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## jobo (Jul 9, 2020)

drop bear said:


> So this is what we made.
> View attachment 22966


 yea, that looks like i built it in a hurry


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## drop bear (Jul 9, 2020)

jobo said:


> yea, that looks like i built it in a hurry



Meh...

It does the job.

I think all you really need is an environment to work out the basic concepts. 

Which is mostly about where do I need to be to have the highest percentage chance of shooting someone without getting shot. 

A flash barricade vs a shoddy one does about the same thing. I am mostly just trying to cut advantageous angles without exposing myself to other people doing same.


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## CB Jones (Jul 9, 2020)

drop bear said:


> So this is what we made.
> View attachment 22966



Do y'all work at shooting 6-10 feet behind the barrier?

Seems like everyone wants to get right up against the barricades when shooting but often times standing back away from it gives you some advantages.

Also often times going straight across and then moving up to the next barrier while firing is better instead of moving directly to the barrier.


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## dvcochran (Jul 9, 2020)

jobo said:


> i understand what curbs look like.
> 
> , im not mocking it or you, but it is difficult not to be slightly amused by someone preparing for urban warfare, by building accoutrements not found in a urban environment and insisting that despite their complete absence from the likely field of battle this is a good investment in time money and effort.
> 
> i bet your dressing up in camouflage as well


Considering most of us can't afford to build full scale barricades solely for practice, let alone having the acreage that would require, scaled mock ups are the logical solution.
How it this so hard to figure out?


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## drop bear (Jul 9, 2020)

CB Jones said:


> Do y'all work at shooting 6-10 feet behind the barrier?
> 
> Seems like everyone wants to get right up against the barricades when shooting but often times standing back away from it gives you some advantages.
> 
> Also often times going straight across and then moving up to the next barrier while firing is better instead of moving directly to the barrier.



This is for gellball. So we also run around like mongs mostly.

But yeah we do the in the shadow of the barrier thing mostly. I have a really short gun so I can just sit a barrel length back and just sort of sip out an inch or so and shoot.

6 feet back might work better at range. I have the problem where people are either getting beside me or behind me. Because everyone is really mobile


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## jobo (Jul 10, 2020)

dvcochran said:


> Considering most of us can't afford to build full scale barricades solely for practice, let alone having the acreage that would require, scaled mock ups are the logical solution.
> How it this so hard to figure out?


half a dozen pallets, as DB did, arranged in walls of curbs would seem to give a more closer approximation than that comic apparatus, that not going to either cost much or  take up a lot of space


but practising hiding behind things is of limited use if no one is firing at you, which again makes DBs suggestion of paintball or air soft a much better bet for the aspiring urban warrior

my brief flirtation with airsoft revealed,that if you can shoot them, they can almost certainly shoot you. this may be more difficult with a purpose built barricade, but again these are not common when a mass shooting breaks out in the shopping centre


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## CB Jones (Jul 10, 2020)

jobo said:


> half a dozen pallets, as DB did, arranged in walls of curbs would seem to give a more closer approximation than that comic apparatus, that not going to either cost much or  take up a lot of space
> 
> 
> but practising hiding behind things is of limited use if no one is firing at you, which again makes DBs suggestion of paintball or air soft a much better bet for the aspiring urban warrior
> ...



Again....the point of the apparatus is to work on from shooting from different body positions and rests.  Its not for practising hiding behind stuff.

That apparatus is much easier to mover around then dozens of pallets.


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## jobo (Jul 10, 2020)

CB Jones said:


> Again....the point of the apparatus is to work on from shooting from different body positions and rests.  Its not for practising hiding behind stuff.
> 
> That apparatus is much easier to mover around then dozens of pallets.


what do you want to move it around for ? and it doesnt look at all easy to move around !

and if its not for hiding behind why is the guy in the pic hiding behind it ?


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## CB Jones (Jul 10, 2020)

jobo said:


> what do you want to move it around for ? and it doesnt look at all easy to move around



To move it around your range based on what you are doing.


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## jobo (Jul 10, 2020)

CB Jones said:


> To move it around your range based on what you are doing.


 it seems easier to move the target ? it still doesn't look easy to move, certainly no easier than a pallet, 6 pallets gives you 6 paces of equipment, to hide behind,


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## CB Jones (Jul 10, 2020)

jobo said:


> it seems easier to move the target ? it still doesn't look easy to move, certainly no easier than a pallet, 6 pallets gives you 6 paces of equipment, to hide behind,



Targets are fixed so that you are shooting towards a safe back drop.

1 plywood barricade is only 1 piece of equipment you have to move instead of 6.

Again....its not about hiding....its about practicing firing positions.



And to clarify I'm talking about this Barricade


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## jobo (Jul 10, 2020)

CB Jones said:


> Targets are fixed so that you are shooting towards a safe back drop.
> 
> 1 plywood barricade is only 1 piece of equipment you have to move instead of 6.
> 
> ...


no you have one pallet to move, 6 is 6 pieces of equipment that cover all the situations that the one doesn't

if you do move 6 pallets its far more than 6 times better than that for preparing you for urban assault, so is more than a good investment of spending 5 mins moving them

though to be honest i still dont see what benefit moving them has, if you put them in the right place at the beginning, but then a small and very cheap pallet truck may be of assistance, if yout too in-firmed to actually move a pallet a few dozen yards, but then if your that in firmed you cant move the other thing either

ive seen combat troops training moving various bit of wood around for no apparent reason than it helps them be better combat troops, so they possibly need to look how the professionals train and incorporate pallet moving in to their day

and again if its not about hiding, why is the guy in the picture hiding behind it ?


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## Runs With Fire (Jul 10, 2020)

jobo said:


> no you have one pallet to move, 6 is 6 pieces of equipment that cover all the situations that the one doesn't
> 
> if you do move 6 pallets its far more than 6 times better than that for preparing you for urban assault, so is more than a good investment of spending 5 mins moving them
> 
> ...


We're running 20 people through an I hr course on a public, state maintained shooting range.  We don't have the time to constantly move things Dorr training, and it all has to fit in my vehicle at the end of the day.


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## jobo (Jul 10, 2020)

Runs With Fire said:


> We're running 20 people through an I hr course on a public, state maintained shooting range.  We don't have the time to constantly move things Dorr training, and it all has to fit in my vehicle at the end of the day.


Well just take one pallet then, though with 20 people i cant help thinking more pallets would be better,  other wise they will only get 3 mins each, they are not going to be capable of storming a bandit hid out with so few mins in fact im not at all sure what they will be able to do after such a short time


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## Runs With Fire (Jul 10, 2020)

jobo said:


> Well just take one pallet then, though with 20 people i cant help thinking more pallets would be better,  other wise they will only get 3 mins each, they are not going to be capable of storming a bandit hid out with so few mins in fact im not at all sure what they will be able to do after such a short time


Meant to say an 8 hr course.


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## Runs With Fire (Jul 10, 2020)

jobo said:


> Well just take one pallet then, though with 20 people i cant help thinking more pallets would be better,  other wise they will only get 3 mins each, they are not going to be capable of storming a bandit hid out with so few mins in fact im not at all sure what they will be able to do after such a short time


We're going to have five of the fancy ones. And two rooftop types.


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## drop bear (Jul 10, 2020)

jobo said:


> no you have one pallet to move, 6 is 6 pieces of equipment that cover all the situations that the one doesn't
> 
> if you do move 6 pallets its far more than 6 times better than that for preparing you for urban assault, so is more than a good investment of spending 5 mins moving them
> 
> ...



You are trying to set up a basic structure for moving and shooting with a gun. 

And so by basic structure I mean you are trying to get from point A To point  B with a bullet, or gellball in my case, in the other guy without exposing yourself to their bullets/gellball. 

And there is a whole skill to being able to do that. Which I am not great at. 

Being able to make a random field would be kind of cool for that. Because I tend to have my steps rehearsed a bit. 

So it isn't really hiding behind. It is everything that gets you to that point where you are hiding behind. 

The best option would be an indoor field with all the barriers on pallets. And then you just waltz around with a pallet jack. 

The step looking thing would work for drills. So say that third step is at some ugly night where you have to be all sports of yoga to shoot from it. You can then force people to shoot from there so that they become a bit more adaptable.


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## lklawson (Jul 13, 2020)

jobo said:


> no you have one pallet to move, 6 is 6 pieces of equipment that cover all the situations that the one doesn't
> 
> if you do move 6 pallets its far more than 6 times better than that for preparing you for urban assault, so is more than a good investment of spending 5 mins moving them
> 
> ...


Listening to your opinions on fighting with guns, and training to do so, is like listening to virgins talk about sex.


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## jobo (Jul 13, 2020)

lklawson said:


> Listening to your opinions on fighting with guns, and training to do so, is like listening to virgins talk about sex.


i have experience,  admittedly these were air soft guns, , this is indeed more to piint of the discision as at least people were shooting back,,though i did go on the range once with a magnum,, so my virgin status has gone

on the same theme virgiins can be extremly 3xsperiance about sex and still be technically virgins


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## lklawson (Jul 13, 2020)




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## geezer (Jul 20, 2020)

jobo said:


> i have experience,  admittedly these were air soft guns, , this is indeed more to piint of the discision as at least people were shooting back,,though i did go on the range once with a magnum,, so my virgin status has gone



_Jobo,_ I started shooting shotguns and rifles when I was about ten. By age 16, I'd taken mule deer, American pronghorn, and a lot of doves and quail, and did some trap and skeet shooting for fun. I gave up hunting forever in my early 20s, and have had very little involvement with shooting arts since. I still shoot handguns with my brother once in a rare while, and am looking to buy one now. Shooting is something fun I can still do during this Covid thing. 

I also did a bit of paintball. Let me tell you, things like paintball and air-soft are _not_ the same as shooting _real firearms_ that can accurately shoot hundreds of yards _and kill by chance at distances of over a mile._ Really. My brother has some very accurate and very expensive open-sight (no scope) rifles he uses in national and international competition at the 1,000 yard range, and he has a couple of large caliber scoped rifles with custom barrels and ammo that can hit things even farther away. 

And you talk about _moving the targets_ around? Targets that have to stop _real _bullets? 

Look, I grew up in a family that shot guns. Most Americans, especially those with rural roots did. I'm still _totally ignorant _about the type of shooting being referenced in the OP.  So I'm reading this thread out of curiosity ...and am humble enough not to opine on matters I do not understand.

You apparently grew up in the UK, a society where guns are highly regulated and rare, with handguns almost totally unavailable. You have had almost no experience with a real firearm and none at all in the type of shooting being referenced here. Yet you want to argue with all the  knowledgeable people posting! IKLawson was right on the mark. BTW ever hear of Dunning - Kruger??? 

Dunning–Kruger effect - Wikipedia


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## jobo (Jul 21, 2020)

geezer said:


> _Jobo,_ I started shooting shotguns and rifles when I was about ten. By age 16, I'd taken mule deer, American pronghorn, and a lot of doves and quail, and did some trap and skeet shooting for fun. I gave up hunting forever in my early 20s, and have had very little involvement with shooting arts since. I still shoot handguns with my brother once in a rare while, and am looking to buy one now. Shooting is something fun I can still do during this Covid thing.
> 
> I also did a bit of paintball. Let me tell you, things like paintball and air-soft are _not_ the same as shooting _real firearms_ that can accurately shoot hundreds of yards _and kill by chance at distances of over a mile._ Really. My brother has some very accurate and very expensive open-sight (no scope) rifles he uses in national and international competition at the 1,000 yard range, and he has a couple of large caliber scoped rifles with custom barrels and ammo that can hit things even farther away.
> 
> ...


well back at you

you do know that range targets dont stop bullets , dont you ? it does rather seam from the above you dont


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## CB Jones (Jul 21, 2020)

jobo said:


> well back at you
> 
> you do know that range targets dont stop bullets , dont you ? it does rather seam from the above you dont



Well the bullet trap does...and the target has to be in front of the trap.

So if you can't move the trap then you can't move the target.


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## jobo (Jul 21, 2020)

CB Jones said:


> Well the bullet trap does...and the target has to be in front of the trap.
> 
> So if you can't move the trap then you can't move the target.


clearly you can move it as long as the trap stays behibd it, so left,  right forward back and all points between , clearly if you move it to the next town it can cause problems


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## Oni_Kadaki (Aug 6, 2020)

jobo said:


> clearly you can move it as long as the trap stays behibd it, so left,  right forward back and all points between , clearly if you move it to the next town it can cause problems



Jobo is correct. I shoot in USPSA competitions occasionally and similar, local matches more regularly. I remember at least two matches where moving targets were used. As long as your backstop can effectively cover all of the possible angles at which you may engage a target, you're good to go.


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## bellalawren (Jun 24, 2021)

In fact, construction is always very difficult, you need to make a construction plan, then order the material and kill a lot of veremeni for construction.


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## Tez3 (Jun 25, 2021)

geezer said:


> _Jobo,_ I started shooting shotguns and rifles when I was about ten. By age 16, I'd taken mule deer, American pronghorn, and a lot of doves and quail, and did some trap and skeet shooting for fun. I gave up hunting forever in my early 20s, and have had very little involvement with shooting arts since. I still shoot handguns with my brother once in a rare while, and am looking to buy one now. Shooting is something fun I can still do during this Covid thing.
> 
> I also did a bit of paintball. Let me tell you, things like paintball and air-soft are _not_ the same as shooting _real firearms_ that can accurately shoot hundreds of yards _and kill by chance at distances of over a mile._ Really. My brother has some very accurate and very expensive open-sight (no scope) rifles he uses in national and international competition at the 1,000 yard range, and he has a couple of large caliber scoped rifles with custom barrels and ammo that can hit things even farther away.
> 
> ...



Weapons aren't as rare as you think in the UK, where I live every other house has shotguns and often rifles for example. Guns are common in rural communities, there's little need for them in urban areas unless you enjoy hunting and/or clay pigeon shooting, which many in the UK do.

Shooting on ranges is popular  here too, we have many gun clubs as well as places you can try out different weapons.

My experience with guns would most likely surprise you but I don't post up because it was work not pleasure however I do know exactly what the OP is about. 

Jobo can stand up for himself but I will say I've always found nuns surprisingly knowledgeable about sex................... 😂


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## hoshin1600 (Jun 27, 2021)

this may not apply to the situation, but using an actual vehicle is nice.  does more than simulate an actual common situation. of course i wouldnt want it to be my car.


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## LeeDonna (Jul 1, 2021)

I do not use shooting barriers because I prefer to rent scaffolding.


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## LeeDonna (Jul 11, 2021)

I do not use shooting barriers because I prefer to rent scaffolding. Renting a structure instead of building it yourself saves you a lot of time, effort, and money. Why bother buying all the materials and assembling them when you contact the rental service and have them deliver and install the scaffolding yourself? You don't need to do any tedious paperwork on the equipment or maintain the structure, especially if you only need it for a one-time job. When you rent one, you also don't have to worry about the moving part. The company petesuen.com will take care of everything.


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