# Bar Fight and Random Violence!



## Brian R. VanCise (Feb 11, 2008)

Okay take a look at how quickly a situation can change.  Two people get layed out by one person in a matter of moments.

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## terryl965 (Feb 11, 2008)

It was fast and most people did not even blink.


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## Empty Hands (Feb 11, 2008)

I don't know if the first guy had much of a chance, but the 2nd guy had plenty of time to react.  Looks like he was trying to calm him down or talk to him, and froze for too long when the attacker grabbed him.


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## tellner (Feb 11, 2008)

One good punch when you aren't ready for it can ruin your whole day.


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## Drac (Feb 11, 2008)

Empty Hands said:


> I don't know if the first guy had much of a chance, but the 2nd guy had plenty of time to react. Looks like he was trying to calm him down or talk to him


 
Too many Verbal Judo and Tounge-Fu lessons


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## Drac (Feb 11, 2008)

tellner said:


> One good punch when you aren't ready for it can ruin your whole day.


 
You said it Tellner..


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## MA-Caver (Feb 11, 2008)

It'd be good to know what the circumstances were that lead up to it? But yeah, one punch -- done right definitely wipes out the day's agenda.


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## morph4me (Feb 11, 2008)

Looks to me like he head but the first guy and the second guy tried to hold him but left him in a good position. I dobn't think he'll be welcome in that bar in the near future.


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## theletch1 (Feb 11, 2008)

Talk about a hit and run!


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## Brian R. VanCise (Feb 11, 2008)

Just an FYI folk's that this is supposedly a Chicago Bar!


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## DavidCC (Feb 11, 2008)

how many of us practice our 2-handed grabs like that?  

what's that noise? oh yeah - that's a wake-up call.


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## still learning (Feb 11, 2008)

Hello, Very few people would have been able to defend themselves in this sitution.   The push and punch was unexpected.

Like the False crack? ...almost impossible to defend?   ...and the guy ran away...very smart move!

Aloha, (things can happen so fast and unexpectedly)


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## Rich Parsons (Feb 11, 2008)

Falling down is easy. 

Getting back up is hard.

Having been taken by surprise before it sucks. Lucky for me or my think skull I did not go down. 

As to the video, the guys who got it first seemed to be a part of the problem. He was moving around a lot. Made motions and also was handling the women present. Some of the women even approached him first in what I would consider to be possible a non friendly body expression. 

The guy was grabbed and slammed in the head. The other guy could have been just trying to avoid an issue. I agree he did hesitate too long.


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## KenpoTex (Feb 11, 2008)

That's one of my favorite videos (it's been out for a few years).  Don't know the circumstances, but it's a perfect example of "speed and violence of action."


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## Makalakumu (Feb 11, 2008)

This just underscores the point that I try to make with my students.  You need to be able to take a shot or two and keep going.  A good flinch or defensive turn can keep you on your feet and in the action.  The reality is that is all anyone had time for.  Both shots landed clean and hard because of the lack of these reflexes.


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## theletch1 (Feb 11, 2008)

DavidCC said:


> how many of us practice our 2-handed grabs like that?
> 
> what's that noise? oh yeah - that's a wake-up call.


We do at our dojo.  Our childrens white belt curriculum is about half grabs like that.  The adults will work that two hand grab from both a static and a lunging attack with both hands going for the throat or the chest.  Close in it's a real ***** ...gives you a true wake up call on keeping your distance as best as possible.


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## jks9199 (Feb 11, 2008)

It definitely appears that the one guy was the problem, and the guy who took the others out was solving it.  I'd really like to know the back story.


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## LawDog (Feb 12, 2008)

We do but we call that one a two handed offensive push. Soft vison awareness should be on at all times, that was his mistake.


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## DavidCC (Feb 12, 2008)

yep, a push as a result of the agressive grab, and then an immediate pull into the headbutt, which I believe was the intended attack... the pushing it appears may be just a by-product of the grab.


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## LawDog (Feb 12, 2008)

In Judo you are taught to sometimes to push an opponent away from you before you redirect and pull him forward into a throw. If you are pushed backwards your natural reflex will be to try and counter by pushing forward.
In the street many street wise fighters will pull you inward then push you backward.
Only that guy knows for sure.


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## MarkBarlow (Feb 12, 2008)

Regardless, that head but was a thing of beauty.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Feb 12, 2008)

MarkBarlow said:


> Regardless, that head but was a thing of beauty.


 
Yes I do not think that anyone can refute that!  Glad I was not on the receiving end and hopefully the two people laid out were okay.


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## LawDog (Feb 12, 2008)

Unless your on the receiving end.    :hammer:


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## still learning (Feb 12, 2008)

Hello, The hardest thing to train for is the 'UNEXPECTED".   You could see there was NO way to know the push and punch was coming.

Most people who meet anyone or a friend expects to get hit or push?

In a confrontations....you will not want to advertise your attack! ..that is why sometimes hitting first is the best self-defense!

The "false crack"...rarely this is every defended against!  ...the attacker will not advertise their attack or punch/kick/etc...

Tried this? ..the next time you see your students...and you rise your hand to shake hands....slap them instead? ...see how many will be able to defend against this?   ...the UNEXPECTED? ...RARE to defend against

Aloha ( lets shake hands on this?)


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## jks9199 (Feb 12, 2008)

Actually, there was a fair bit of warning, IF you are looking for it.

We don't have audio, but I bet you'd find the guy saying something along the lines of "leave my girl alone."  You do see her friend (I presume) intervening with the guy.  Then you see the attacker move around, and intervene.  He turns the persistent victim around 180 degrees while the guy is still talking at the girl, and only then does he strike.

But...  this does also illustrate why I caution people to stay and deal with the cops.  Or, at least to call the cops as soon as they are somewhere safe.  Lots of people have missed the behaviors that led up to what seems to be an assault -- but they're significant.  The first guy got grabbed and thrown only after he'd pretty clearly forced his attention on two different girls.  One tried to intervene before the guy got grabbed and thrown, and he didn't want to listen.  

As I said previously -- I'd really like to hear the back story.


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## thardey (Feb 12, 2008)

Is an efficient counter to a head-butt to lower you own head? Seems like a painful block (using your forehead), but it would sure beat a broken nose. Although I've never tried it other than in football, wearing a helmet, so I don't really know.


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## Adept (Feb 13, 2008)

still learning said:


> The push and punch was unexpected.


 
Not really. I picked the problem at about the 20-25 second mark.



jks9199 said:


> Actually, there was a fair bit of warning, IF you are looking for it.


 
Absolutely. More than anything, this video indicates the need for situational awareness.

It looks like the guy who got smashed first deserved it, but had he been a bit more switched on, he would have discerned the attackers intent and been able to mount a more effective defence.


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## still learning (Feb 13, 2008)

Hello, Most of us were not there...lots of confrontations happens in a bar or any place....MOST people DO NOT EXPECT BEING PUSH OR PUNCH.

Also those guys may be NOT train in any martial arts too? ...how would they know what to do?  Plus drinking any beer puts you to more a relaxation state?

To defend an unexpected attack? ...very hard to defend against.

False crack or first punch/kick is a very good weapon that surprise's anyone!

Walking down a street a person "bump"'s into  you? .....it could be accident? ....What would your first reaction be?   or should be? ....again it might be accident?

Aloha ( like most car accidents....after wards there is tons of things people say you could have done? ....unexpected? happens so quickly...


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## MarkBarlow (Feb 14, 2008)

still learning said:


> Hello, Most of us were not there...lots of confrontations happens in a bar or any place....MOST people DO NOT EXPECT BEING PUSH OR PUNCH.
> 
> Also those guys may be NOT train in any martial arts too? ...how would they know what to do?  Plus drinking any beer puts you to more a relaxation state?
> .



Since the vast majority of posters here _*are*_ martial artists, we tend to view situations from a different perspective.  Also, if the training we've received is based on practical technique and realistic situations, a bar is exactly the sort of place we would expect trouble to occur.


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