# sanchin form



## hoshin1600 (Feb 16, 2020)

Just returned from Thailand, thought the traditional people here may enjoy this.  i made a few mistakes because i was nervous. i dont usually  record my forms and there were people walking around that distracted me but overall not bad.  soft relaxed and flowing.  


	
	






__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1271240046406752


----------



## isshinryuronin (Feb 16, 2020)

hoshin1600 said:


> thought the traditional people here may enjoy this


Goju, Uechi-ryu?  nice hands.  maybe hips and legs could have locked in more - maybe a style thing.  thanks for posting.  nice backdrop.


----------



## JR 137 (Feb 16, 2020)

isshinryuronin said:


> Goju, Uechi-ryu?  nice hands.  maybe hips and legs could have locked in more - maybe a style thing.  thanks for posting.  nice backdrop.


Uechi Ryu version.


----------



## hoshin1600 (Feb 16, 2020)

this is actually my own.  it has been an evolution from looking into the origins of the goju and uechi sanchin.  this would be considered a Fujian style form.  all of the moves come from the many variations of sanchin found in China but i did the placement of the moves within the uechi and goju foundation.


----------



## hoshin1600 (Feb 16, 2020)

isshinryuronin said:


> Goju, Uechi-ryu?  nice hands.  maybe hips and legs could have locked in more - maybe a style thing.  thanks for posting.  nice backdrop.


Chinese forms run the spectrum of using dynamic tension.  the Okinawan versions tend to lock into place while the Chinese versions can be very soft with only the core having the tension.  so yeah i dont really thrust the hips forward and lock the hips and strike together and then freeze at the end of the strike.  for me what matters is the timing that they work together then hit like a ball and chain and retract smoothly.
they say you should do sanchin three times. my interpretation on this is that one should be done soft and relaxed, one with a lot of tension, expressing the tiger aspects and one strong and sharp but light and fast, expressing the crane aspects. this clip is obviously the soft relaxed.


----------



## isshinryuronin (Feb 16, 2020)

Re: hoshin1600's tag quotation - Vegetius, like DeSaxe a thousand years later, were "ahead of their time."  That's in quotes as they accomplished that by looking to the *past*, rediscovering what was lost over the ages and reintroducing these martial concepts. 

Unfortunately, Vegetius' somber, yet sound advice to the Emperor came too late in history to change the fate of the Roman Empire, while DeSaxe had some success (and would have had much more if he could have avoided so many "wham, bam, thank you ma'am" moments with very powerful women.)

But both men realized that the "old ways" had some keys to success that had been lost to their generation (much like kata), either forgotten, or imitated empty of purpose (what we would call bunkai)   Like an important note that has slipped behind the desk, there is useful info to be rediscovered. 

Most importantly, they both realized the importance of heart in their troops.  Sun Tsu also spent a few paragraphs regarding gauging the morale of friendly as well as enemy troops.  A good MA school should take note and not neglect this aspect in training students.


----------



## hoshin1600 (Feb 17, 2020)

isshinryuronin said:


> Re: hoshin1600's tag quotation - Vegetius, like DeSaxe a thousand years later, were "ahead of their time."  That's in quotes as they accomplished that by looking to the *past*, rediscovering what was lost over the ages and reintroducing these martial concepts.
> 
> Unfortunately, Vegetius' somber, yet sound advice to the Emperor came too late in history to change the fate of the Roman Empire, while DeSaxe had some success (and would have had much more if he could have avoided so many "wham, bam, thank you ma'am" moments with very powerful women.)
> 
> ...


I'm impressed dude that your well read, a sign of a real "student" of the arts.
To add merit to your post.
This form is, in my belief what the common ancestor of uechi and goju would have looked something like.  It's a kind of Jurassic Park DNA extraction. I pulled the DNA from both Goju and Uechi and pulled from as many sources as I could to fill in the missing details. Like how Jurassic Park used alligator DNA or something to fix the missing links in the original movie. 
Now maybe this doesn't look anything like the ancient source of the form, but it was a great 10 year experiment to play with.


----------



## _Simon_ (Feb 17, 2020)

That was awesome man, loved it, thanks for posting! Yeah it felt more Uechi, but yeah a nice version there.



hoshin1600 said:


> they say you should do sanchin three times. my interpretation on this is that one should be done soft and relaxed, one with a lot of tension, expressing the tiger aspects and one strong and sharp but light and fast, expressing the crane aspects. this clip is obviously the soft relaxed.



I like this idea.. always was taught Sanchin is total tension, at all times, not letting it go at all the whole time, and not doing it any other way. Makes sense those three ways, but I guess Tensho kata was a sort of counterpart to Sanchin for that reason..


----------



## Yokozuna514 (Feb 17, 2020)

hoshin1600 said:


> Just returned from Thailand, thought the traditional people here may enjoy this.  i made a few mistakes because i was nervous. i dont usually  record my forms and there were people walking around that distracted me but overall not bad.  soft relaxed and flowing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for posting the video.  I found it very interesting to watch and then to hear you explanation.  I was practicing Sanchin kata yesterday and the perspective we follow is from Shinkyokushin which has departed from the 'traditional' Kyokushin method of lifting the 'hara' to lock in the hips.  I'm still exploring how this slight change affects the kata overall and have been looking for answers whenever the topic of Sanchin kata comes up.  I find it fascinating to see all the different variations of Sanchin being used in the world today and I hope to find the answers the further I dig.   Thanks for sharing.


----------



## ShortBridge (Feb 17, 2020)

Thanks for sharing. There are a seemingly endless assortment of variations on this form and I always enjoy seeing a new one. I'm sure it was special for you to do in such a beautiful place.


----------



## isshinryuronin (Feb 17, 2020)

ShortBridge said:


> Thanks for sharing. There are a seemingly endless assortment of variations on this form and I always enjoy seeing a new one. I'm sure it was special for you to do in such a beautiful place.


Yeah, there are a lot of sanchin versions.  My style does it with tension all the way thru.  Not the most enjoyable kata for me - it's really hard work, taking a lot of will power to do it right.  Not recommended for sr. citizens.  But for the younger folk, a powerful tool for building core strength and internal control.

I've noticed, the older the kata, the more variations to be found.  That's logical given there's more time for divergent evolution.  Sanchin is one of the oldest katas still practiced.  The pinans, among the most recent, show much less difference from style to style.


----------



## Buka (Feb 17, 2020)

isshinryuronin said:


> Not the most enjoyable kata for me - it's really hard work, taking a lot of will power to do it right.  Not recommended for sr. citizens.



Sounds like a young pup cruising for a bruising.


----------



## Parzival (Feb 17, 2020)

I thought sanchin was the one where you shrivel your body up like a shrimp, so that all your muscles are tightened and you can take a beating


----------



## _Simon_ (Feb 17, 2020)

isshinryuronin said:


> Yeah, there are a lot of sanchin versions.  My style does it with tension all the way thru.  Not the most enjoyable kata for me - it's really hard work, taking a lot of will power to do it right.  Not recommended for sr. citizens.  But for the younger folk, a powerful tool for building core strength and internal control.
> 
> I've noticed, the older the kata, the more variations to be found.  That's logical given there's more time for divergent evolution.  Sanchin is one of the oldest katas still practiced.  The pinans, among the most recent, show much less difference from style to style.


Haha yep, we were taught that if you weren't absolutely exhausted from doing Sanchin kata once, you weren't doing it right XD


----------



## _Simon_ (Feb 17, 2020)

Parzival said:


> I thought sanchin was the one where you shrivel your body up like a shrimp, so that all your muscles are tightened and you can take a beating


Yeah sort of is, but depends on the style you train in. Not so much shrivel as in reinforce a stable and aligned position.

In my previous style, it was tested at Shodan and called "Sanchin under duress", four people would surround you while you performed Sanchin, and essentially strike you... alot. Most areas of the body, which to me was more about testing your focus and ability to persevere through those hits, and not be shaken or moved by them.

Whereas in other styles (Goju ryu, Uechi ryu), it was called Sanchin with shime, which was more a method of checking strength, posture, and concentration, and basically that the body had good weight distribution, and alignment throughout. It consisted still of some strikes, but alot of softer and harder pushes to test it.

Correct me if I'm wrong anyone!


----------



## isshinryuronin (Feb 18, 2020)

_Simon_ said:


> Whereas in other styles (Goju ryu, Uechi ryu), it was called Sanchin with shime, which was more a method of checking strength, posture, and concentration, and basically that the body had good weight distribution, and alignment throughout. It consisted still of some strikes, but alot of softer and harder pushes to test it.


Yes, mostly this and checking that your muscles were tightened properly:  traps, lats, butt and calves mostly.


----------



## Buka (Feb 19, 2020)

hoshin1600 said:


> this is actually my own.  it has been an evolution from looking into the origins of the goju and uechi sanchin.  this would be considered a Fujian style form.  all of the moves come from the many variations of sanchin found in China but i did the placement of the moves within the uechi and goju foundation.



You know I don’t do any Kata, but if I did I’d do Sanchin. 

I actually wrote a paper when I was in college for an English class...on Sanchin. Go figure.


----------



## donald1 (Feb 19, 2020)

Parzival said:


> I thought sanchin was the one where you shrivel your body up like a shrimp, so that all your muscles are tightened and you can take a beating





_Simon_ said:


> Haha yep, we were taught that if you weren't absolutely exhausted from doing Sanchin kata once, you weren't doing it right XD


That's the sanchin I'm familiar with as well. This being a different style would make sense the form look different. Funny enough even though its pretty different from the sanchin I practice(goju ryu) I did notice it still had the three pattern(sanchin meaning three battles).


----------

