# Question on hyungs



## Ian wallace (Jul 13, 2008)

I know this question might have debates but iv been told by a good friend that to understand hyungs on a technical side fully!, you have to trace back the lineage to complete a full picture of the hyung as to understand it better.
most of the hyungs are Japanese, so why do we have Chinese hyungs aswell?, I know that a certain percentage of our techniques are from kung Fu, but werent the shotakan katas enough For our curriculum?


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## MBuzzy (Jul 13, 2008)

Well, the idea that you must learn the history and lineage of a hyung is a much wider debate that can be captured this simply.  While I personally feel that it is very important to learn the history and lineage, it is definately not essential.  I have met many people who have no idea about the history or have a very skewed idea of what the actual lineage was....and they fully and effectively understand hyung.

As to the chinese vs japanese portions.  Much of the Japanese side of the hyung come from the Japanese occupation.  While that Japanese were in Korea, much of their knowledge was passed on.  But during this time, some of the Koreans (such as Hwang Kee) fled to China, during which time they learned some of the Chinese styles.  Therefore, when they returned to Korea, the "Korean" styles that they created were really conglomerations of the Japanese and Chinese training that they had received.  At least in Hwang Kee's opinion, the hard Japanese styles and softer Chinese styles were both necessary to make a complete art.  

Now that isn't to say that either the Japanese or Chinese styles aren't complete, but when the Korean styles (the Kwan era) emerged, some still had that chinese influence.

I personally like the idea of integrating harder and softer styles, kind of gives TSD the yang and um feel...


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## rick_tsdmdk (Jul 13, 2008)

Ian wallace said:


> I know this question might have debates but iv been told by a good friend that to understand hyungs on a technical side fully!, you have to trace back the lineage to complete a full picture of the hyung as to understand it better.
> most of the hyungs are Japanese, so why do we have Chinese hyungs aswell?, I know that a certain percentage of our techniques are from kung Fu, but werent the shotakan katas enough For our curriculum?


 
What techniques and hyung do you think are from kung fu?


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## tshadowchaser (Jul 13, 2008)

Just to jump into this thread for a moment:

Knowing the lineage of the form may help you understand why some of the moves are more flowing or harder but dose not help you learn the technical side of the move.   Learning the technical side will come from having someone more knowledgeable tell you or from experimentation and learning over the years by yourself.


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## MBuzzy (Jul 13, 2008)

rick_tsdmdk said:


> What techniques and hyung do you think are from kung fu?


 
I see a Chinese influence in the Chil Sung and Yuk Ro hyung, but that's really it.  I see no kung fu or chinese style movements in anything else....ok....MAYBE one or two in Jindo....but I really wouldn't call that chinese, just softer.


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## SamT (Jul 14, 2008)

Not to hijack, but is there any resource I should look into for learning about the history and lineage of the hyungs? My instructor said that Kee Cho Hyung Il Bu was "a mother defending her child", or "Mother and son fighting together." Otherwise, he sort of skimmed the subject when I asked.

Also, at a black belt test I watched, the Cho Dan Bos were asked what the purpose of a hyung was, and one of them said that they "tell stories of battles from the past." Does this tie in with what you're talking about with their respective lineage?


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## MBuzzy (Jul 14, 2008)

I personally have never heard that interpretation of the Kichos or that explanation for where hyung came from.  

Now, I have heard that hyung are a "textbook" of fighting and combat techniques, basically encoded in a specific order so that people can remember more easily....although that is probably the most simplistic explanation I could do.

As for a resource, you can try some of Hwang Kee's books, or the "History of the Moo Duk Kwan" by Hwang Kee, but I have to be honest, some of the history in the books may be a bit questionable.  As for a resource....Well, good luck, that's something that we all struggle with.  It is very hard to find a place that has a solid history.


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## Makalakumu (Jul 14, 2008)

Eventually, the history becomes important, because if you really want to understand what you are doing in a hyung, most likely you are not going to find that from a TSD teacher.  You've got to look at how the hyung has morphed and changed over time in order to see its application...you may need to get a Japanese or Okinawan teacher to help you.


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## MBuzzy (Jul 14, 2008)

maunakumu said:


> Eventually, the history becomes important, because if you really want to understand what you are doing in a hyung, most likely you are not going to find that from a TSD teacher. You've got to look at how the hyung has morphed and changed over time in order to see its application...you may need to get a Japanese or Okinawan teacher to help you.


 
Very true, you would be amazed how much insight looking back a few generations can give.


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## DMcHenry (Jul 14, 2008)

I've practiced the same forms (Pyung-ahn) in TaeKwonDo, ShotoKan, and Shorinryu besides TangSooDo.  I've always found it interesting and helped my understanding of them by crosstraining and seeing all the various viewpoints offered.


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## Ian wallace (Jul 14, 2008)

well I felt that alot of our techniques where executed in a more fluent way as done in the Chinese arts, thats not to say that other styles are to robot like like alot of people state, for example pal che hyung i was taught that had a Chinese background but seeing a karate guy doing the hyung and a Tang Soo Do guy doing it, there is alot of difference, so im wondering if that has a Chinese influence to it, i mean by the way we do the hyung itself?

whats your view?


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## Ian wallace (Jul 14, 2008)

I was always taught that the meaning of the kicho hyungs where created on the basis of a child just learning to walk and grasping lifes meaning, could be debatable and I could be wrong!!


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