# Police Fear 'War On Cops'



## MJS (Jan 24, 2011)

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41235743/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/



> A spate of shooting attacks on police officers has authorities concerned about a war on cops.
> In just 24 hours, at least 11 officers were shot. The shootings included Sunday attacks at traffic stops in Indiana and Oregon, a Detroit police station shooting that wounded four officers, a shootout at a Port Orchard, Wash., Wal-Mart that injured two deputies. On Monday morning, two officers were shot dead and a U.S. Marshal was wounded by a gunman authorities were attempting to arrest in St. Petersburg, Fla.


 
And then people wonder why cops are always on the edge, why you always see numerous cops on traffic stops, etc.  Some will call it abuse of power, but I think its more CYA.  In todays world, it seems that's the way that you have to be.


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## Empty Hands (Jan 24, 2011)

In such widely dispersed locations?  I doubt it.  It's possible it's just a statistical coincidence.  Not that that helps the families of the officers slain, war or no, coincidence or no.  RIP.


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## Bob Hubbard (Jan 24, 2011)

I don't think there's an organized war, though there are a few groups out calling for cop heads. I haven't seen any of the recent deaths tied to those groups however, outside of Border Patrol incidents along the US/Mex border.


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## jks9199 (Jan 24, 2011)

Organized?  No.  A social and political climate that is lending itself increasingly to attacks on cops, both as visible symbols of the government and of authority?  Yes.


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## Empty Hands (Jan 24, 2011)

jks9199 said:


> A social and political climate that is lending itself increasingly to attacks on cops, both as visible symbols of the government and of authority?  Yes.



What do you mean?


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## MJS (Jan 24, 2011)

No, IMHO, I do not feel that there is a group or groups orgaizing some mass murder on LEOs.  However, I think that in light of all of the recent shootings, people are not as afraid of either of the LEOs or the consequences, as they may have been.


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## Bob Hubbard (Jan 24, 2011)

The problem unfortunately guys is, we resent you.  As more people view cops as tax collectors, 'special treatment class', and bullies, it gets harder to go back to Mayberry.  It's an escalation. The criminal element gets harder, more aggressive, more tricky and more hostile. You have to be on the defense, at all times. They rack it up, you rack it up.  I saw a sample of that 1st hand in 2005 when I had the FBI over to discuss a scam artist and give them evidence.  They took 1 look at the wall rack of swords, and assumed as passive-defensive posture. 1 agent kept 1 hand inside his jacket right about where a shoulder holster would lay during our discussion.

The sad part of this is, this high-alert state is going to get innocent people injured and possibly killed, with the repercussions getting more cops injured or killed. We all lose.

Why do we resent you? Because we see repeatedly how "evil" you are. Yes, most of us are too stupid to understand that The Shield, CSI, and such are fiction. We watch 1 Youtube clip out of context and read a couple internet rants and suddenly we think there are armies of bad cops out there looking for us to give us a traffic ticket. Yes, we're paranoid idiots.

We're afraid of you.  You have guns, and special privileges, and exemptions, and can brutalize us with us being unable to defend lest we face even worse. Because we 'know' that's how it is because our master the magic box told us so.

We see it taking 6-8 cars to handle 1 traffic stop, and see that as group bully action, and a waste of resources. 8 cars full of cops to give 1 old man a ticket. wow. We don't want to hear how those are 1 man cars, don't understand how dangerous those stops are, and think a vest is a magic safety shield and it's just overkill.

Add to that a climate of general fear. The economy, job and house loss, and fear of each other, and we're a powder keg that's smoking.

But.

We've been here before, and gotten through it. We will again.  

Some people do understand, and try to keep thing sane.  Outreach programs in some communities are restoring not just the trust but the lines of communications between cops and civilians. More are needed.  Bad cops, those slime who get the lions share of the media are still a low percentage, and more are being punished. Some news media are focusing on 'good cop' stories.  

There is a war on, but most of us are on the same side.  We just need to remember that.  I think the last 2 days are going to be an exception.

In the mean time, stay safe, stay aware and come home in 1 piece folks. We need you.


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## Rich Parsons (Jan 24, 2011)

jks9199 said:


> Organized? No. A social and political climate that is lending itself increasingly to attacks on cops, both as visible symbols of the government and of authority? Yes.


 
I agree with JKS.

You add in people unemployed so long they are no longer being counted even with the almsot two year plus extensions that have occurred. 

You add in lower property taxes and people walking away from home and milliages not passing, and you get less police on the roads.

Add in some frustration.

Add in some anger.

Add in some personal issue with authority or a remember incident with a NOT good police officer.

You have a powder keg, with people angry, and broke, and seeing no hope and no future, and less officers on the road, you get a situation with high stress on both sides that leds to high tension and easy triggers for people to loose it.


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## jks9199 (Jan 24, 2011)

Bob & Elder have both hit on parts of what I meant.  But it goes deeper...

Popular culture is glorifying the gangsters and criminals while tearing down the cops and law abiding.  Where in years past, even when the bad guys were made out to be the hero/anti-hero, it was always clear they were "bad guys" -- now many people simply don't care.  Going to prison wasn't seen as a good thing or a career move... 

Look for a moment at cop shows on TV.  Think about *Dragnet*, whether on radio or TV, *Adam 12*, even *CHIPS*.  The cops were the good guys, no doubt about it.  Dirty cops were caught and punished.  In private eye stories they might be made out to be bumbling fools, they might even have been comic foils like Barney Fife on the *Andy Griffith Show*, but the cops were good guys.  You seldom saw shows featuring dirty cops.  Now -- lots of the cop shows are about dirty cops, or cops that are ethically challenged (at best).  I'm talking beyond portraying a nuanced character who isn't some unbelievable paragon of virtue -- but outright dirty, murdering, criminal cops.

Even the simple cultural relativism has degraded the place of police in society.  If nothing is really wrong -- than it's not really wrong to disobey the law, as long as you can get away with it or justify it.


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## Bruno@MT (Jan 25, 2011)

jks9199 said:


> Bob & Elder have both hit on parts of what I meant.  But it goes deeper...
> 
> Popular culture is glorifying the gangsters and criminals while tearing down the cops and law abiding.  Where in years past, even when the bad guys were made out to be the hero/anti-hero, it was always clear they were "bad guys" -- now many people simply don't care.  Going to prison wasn't seen as a good thing or a career move...



Popular culture has always done so.
It was like that 20 years ago (God I'm getting old) when Tracy Marrow wrote 'cop killer'.
It was already like that when people adored billy the kid.
It already was like that when Ted Bundy rivaled the rolling stones in groupie-count.
America has always had a soft spot for anti-authority.



jks9199 said:


> Look for a moment at cop shows on TV.  Think about *Dragnet*, whether on radio or TV, *Adam 12*, even *CHIPS*.  The cops were the good guys, no doubt about it.  Dirty cops were caught and punished.  In private eye stories they might be made out to be bumbling fools, they might even have been comic foils like Barney Fife on the *Andy Griffith Show*, but the cops were good guys.  You seldom saw shows featuring dirty cops.  Now -- lots of the cop shows are about dirty cops, or cops that are ethically challenged (at best).  I'm talking beyond portraying a nuanced character who isn't some unbelievable paragon of virtue -- but outright dirty, murdering, criminal cops.



I think that it is also the rise of accessible media that has to do with this.
In the olden days, something bad happened, and the consequences were local.
Now, with large population densities and instant news coverage, something happens and tshtf.

LA exploded in riots when the officers involved in the rodney king case were acquitted. That was to be expected. But because such things are covered widely, Rodney king is a name that is known around the globe. I don't think there are many black people in LA who -when getting stopped by the police- are comfortable in the knowledge that 'the police is your friend'.

It doesn't matter that 99% of police officers are probably decent folks like the rest of us, just trying to get through life and raise a family. You don't make the news. The dirty cops do. Every time that a police cover-up is exposed, the situation gets worse. Especially since even when they are exposed, sometimes the people in charge still seem reluctant to take action. This way, people are taught to mistrust the police.



jks9199 said:


> Even the simple cultural relativism has degraded the place of police in society.  If nothing is really wrong -- than it's not really wrong to disobey the law, as long as you can get away with it or justify it.



That too is a thing of all times. I would gladly have been a bootlegger in the days of the prohibition. Suddenly the government decides that booze is bad and they completely forbid it on moral grounds? Who are they to tell me? And who are they to tell me that having gay sex in my private home is a crime? Freeing slaves was a crime too, yet I doubt that many people these days would call the people involved anything other than hero.

This is part of the problem in my opinion. If governments start inventing victimless crimes solely on 'moral' grounds, then you train people to disregard authority.


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## Sukerkin (Jan 25, 2011)

A most interesting point you make there, Bruno - one that bears some consideration.  

I'm not sure that it is central to the core topic of this particular thread but it is certainly a part of the 'milieu' that is being spoken of.  One aspect of that that is growing over here in England is the feeling that the police are actively acting to prevent you from 'defending' yourself or dealing with small 'social problems' yourself.  That leads to a sense of powerlessness which in turn breeds a festering resentment (even in stolidly law abiding people like myself).  What that resentment leads to is anybodies guess.


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## seasoned (Jan 25, 2011)

MJS said:


> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41235743/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/
> 
> 
> 
> And then people wonder why cops are *always on the edge*, why you always see numerous cops on traffic stops, etc. Some will call it abuse of power, but *I think its more CYA.* *In todays world, it seems that's the way that you have to be*.


 
The ones that aren't on edge are the ones that someday may become a target. It's not easy being "officer friendly" while at the same time being ever aware of the potential for some long past and perceived retribution. Trying to be approachable, while at the same time being leery of anyone that does approach. Trying to restrain someone with certain techniques, while that person has no restraints. When the officer gets hurt, it's just in the line of duty, but if you hurt somebody, it's having to defend yourself all over again with a lawsuit. Ever aware that your every action reflects on you, your department and your profession, while at times dealing with someone that just wants to hurt somebody. With a lot of the bad press these days toward law enforcement, who in their right mind would want to join those ranks. On the other hand, be thankful for the ones that do. :asian:


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## Archangel M (Jan 25, 2011)

Something I see too...even here in places. Is everybodies pet "cop story" where "officer X" didn't do something that the speaker/poster wanted them (or expected them) to do. 

"She put cuffs on me!!!"

"He pulled me over for no reason and searched mt car!!!"

"I have a friend...who has a brother who worked with a guy...who was pulled over and BEATEN for no reason and let go."

Often times these get acceped with "oohh thats TERRIBLE!" by everybody participating in the conversation. 

It seems like whenever it's (the hypothetical)YOU who is the person who gets a ticket, or is confronted by a police officer, theres always some "issue" with what the cop did. 

I have many firsthand experiences where I was at a call and saw with my own eyes what happened. Later some citizen would call with a complaint describing events that NEVER happened. Sometimes they are just *******s who are trying to minimize their culpability or get a court case to go askew..but other times I can only assume that it's a case of people looking at events through their own lens. A lens warped by emotions, an inflated sense of self-worth and possibly from being raised to believe that they are always above reproach.

A part of this picture is a lack of personal responsibility and a "I never do wrong therefore the cop must be wrong" attitude. 

Not to imply that ALL of these stories are "made up". Some likely are cases of a less than stellar officer, but from what I have experienced there is a large dose of what I have described above going on and I think that Bob struck close to a likely reason for it.


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## MJS (Jan 25, 2011)

seasoned said:


> The ones that aren't on edge are the ones that someday may become a target. It's not easy being "officer friendly" while at the same time being ever aware of the potential for some long past and perceived retribution. Trying to be approachable, while at the same time being leery of anyone that does approach. Trying to restrain someone with certain techniques, while that person has no restraints. When the officer gets hurt, it's just in the line of duty, but if you hurt somebody, it's having to defend yourself all over again with a lawsuit. Ever aware that your every action reflects on you, your department and your profession, while at times dealing with someone that just wants to hurt somebody. With a lot of the bad press these days toward law enforcement, who in their right mind would want to join those ranks. On the other hand, be thankful for the ones that do. :asian:


 
Great points.   Unfortunately, the general public doesnt see it this way.  I certainly tip my hat for those that do that job day after day.  Like I've said in other posts, my Grandfather retired from a PD, a few minutes north of where I live.  Its amazing at how much has changed from then to today.  10 times the violence and crime.


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## MJS (Jan 25, 2011)

jks9199 said:


> Bob & Elder have both hit on parts of what I meant. But it goes deeper...
> 
> Popular culture is glorifying the gangsters and criminals while tearing down the cops and law abiding. Where in years past, even when the bad guys were made out to be the hero/anti-hero, it was always clear they were "bad guys" -- now many people simply don't care. Going to prison wasn't seen as a good thing or a career move...
> 
> ...


 
Whats amazing about the shows that you mention, is there is always the 'happy ending' where everything falls into place, and everything is perfect.  So, people today, who've watched those shows, get a distorted view of what police work is really like.  I used to watch CHIPS all the time.  Amazing how even if there was a foot chase, the officer always seemed to get the bad guy, little to no resistance, cuffs slapped on, etc.  Funny how that same scene today, doesnt play out the same.


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## jks9199 (Jan 25, 2011)

Bruno -- you've got a valid point, and I was never trying to say that we haven't always had some praising or fandom of the anti-hero.  But the cops were seldom portrayed as the bad guys in the same way they are today.  People certainly didn't like getting speeding tickets or otherwise coming afoul of the law -- and there always the stories of speed traps as revenue boosters, and the like -- but it seemed much more understood that the cops were generally the good guys.

In the US, at least, there's been a shift in the cultural climate to have much more tolerance for outright law breaking.  Being a gangster has become "cool" in a way that it wasn't.  Tracy Morrow/Ice-T contributed to this, as did a lot of others.  They pulled attitudes that were once much more limited to a small segment of society in the ghettos to a popular front.


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## Archangel M (Jan 25, 2011)

And let me try to say this so that I don't come off sounding bad...

Something that some of the "old dogs" and retired guys say is that back in the 60's-70's they were able to be somewhat more "free with their use of force" let me say. Saps, batons and a "beat down" was the way business was generally conducted. They say that people were a LOT more respectfull back then. I bet they were.

Not that I am suggesting that it was "right" back then..that I agree with what they did or that I want to go back to it. But part of me wonders if there isn't some sort of insight into human nature there.


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## Bruno@MT (Jan 25, 2011)

Archangel M said:


> I have many firsthand experiences where I was at a call and saw with my own eyes what happened. Later some citizen would call with a complaint describing events that NEVER happened. Sometimes they are just *******s who are trying to minimize their culpability or get a court case to go askew..but other times I can only assume that it's a case of people looking at events through their own lens. A lens warped by emotions, an inflated sense of self-worth and possibly from being raised to believe that they are always above reproach.



You are right and I concede that this is a problem.

However, I think most people are aware on some level that it is as you say. We all know that stories from a friend of a friend who knew this guy... are not all too reliable.
The most damage seems to be done by those rare instances where there is indeed overwhelming evidence that a cop acted dirty, and the issue is swept under the rug. I mean we all know some people go bad. No different from other people. If such a person would be nailed to the cross as soon as he is found out, noone would fault the department (imo). But a coverup will immediately make the entire department suspect, no matter if the other 99% of cops in that department are good people.

Imo you (the police) are facing the same issue as Catholic clergy today.
The instances where the people in charge knew about the child abuse and swept it under the rug have completely destroyed the faith of the general population in the clergy.

And as with the clergy, people are even more outraged at dirty cops, because you are supposed to be the good guys. You're supposed to be the ones we can trust. Noone expects us to trust a random stranger, but we're supposed to trust (or at least cooperate with and listen to) the police.


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## Bruno@MT (Jan 25, 2011)

Archangel M said:


> And let me try to say this so that I don't come off sounding bad...
> 
> Something that some of the "old dogs" and retired guys say is that back in the 60's-70's they were able to be somewhat more "free with their use of force" let me say. Saps, batons and a "beat down" was the way business was generally conducted. They say that people were a LOT more respectfull back then. I bet they were.
> 
> Not that I am suggesting that it was "right" back then..that I agree with what they did or that I want to go back to it. But part of me wonders if there isn't some sort of insight into human nature there.



I don't think so, actually.
There was more fear. And there was more cooperation.
Because noone wanted to end up without his teeth at the bottom of the stairs or the sidewalk, or worse. But that doesn't automatically mean they respected the police.

Respect is what you get if people feel they can trust your word, and trust that you do the right thing.


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## Archangel M (Jan 25, 2011)

The thing is I don't believe that there really all that many cases of bad cops being "swept under the rug". I do see a number of "lynch mob" types who want to have cops fired for incidents that don't require firing.

of course there ARE those departments where corruption is widely known to be rampant (New Orleans). They of course skew the lens.


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## Bruno@MT (Jan 25, 2011)

Archangel M said:


> The thing is I don't believe that there really all that many cases of bad cops being "swept under the rug". I do see a number of "lynch mob" types who want to have cops fired for incidents that don't require firing.
> 
> of course there ARE those departments where corruption is widely known to be rampant (New Orleans). They of course skew the lens.



I know. There aren't that many.
But the few there are make a huge impact on public perception.


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## Archangel M (Jan 25, 2011)

Bruno@MT said:


> I don't think so, actually.
> There was more fear. And there was more cooperation.
> Because noone wanted to end up without his teeth at the bottom of the stairs or the sidewalk, or worse. But that doesn't automatically mean they respected the police.
> 
> Respect is what you get if people feel they can trust your word, and trust that you do the right thing.


 
Agreed. But "Acting" respectfull and actually having respect are not necessarily the same thing. I think that they are talking about how it was rare for people to mouth off to a cop or be "discourteous". 

Of course maintaining civility through brutality is wrong, don't misunderstand me.


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## Empty Hands (Jan 25, 2011)

I think there are some problems in perception that are leading to erroneous conclusions.

One, the thesis that desperate times lead to crime and murder just doesn't hold up.  The crime rate, contrary to expectations, has *not *risen under the Great Recession, in fact it has continued the historic trend downwards.

Second, this thesis would hold more weight if random people without records were the ones taking shots at cops.  However, from all the stories I have seen so far, the shooters were criminals with prior violent offenses.  How can the effects of bad cops on TV or economic conditions compare with the influence of a previous life of crime?  One that probably had a lot to do with inborn tendencies combining with environmental factors.

Third, the thought that cops are the cultural bad guys just didn't hold up.  Yes, there are shows like The Shield or The Wire where the cops are seriously ethically challenged - and yet still considered heroes.  However, there are _dozens _of shows currently on _about _cops that show cops in a good light, as honorable hero types.  Castle, CSI (what are we up to now, 5?), NCIS, Bones, Numbers, etc. etc. etc.  The cultural effect thing only holds up anyway if otherwise normal people decide to start gunning for the police - which just isn't happening.

As Bruno alluded to, this thesis also ignores our long history of anti-authority attitudes in some parts of the country.  In times past, it was worth a federal officer's life to go to some places in the country.  Our "no go" areas now are vanishingly small compared to what they used to be.

I still haven't seen anything that would lead me to believe this is anything other than a horrible coincidence.


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## Archangel M (Jan 25, 2011)

Empty Hands said:


> Second, this thesis would hold more weight if random people without records were the ones taking shots at cops. However, from all the stories I have seen so far, the shooters were criminals with prior violent offenses. How can the effects of bad cops on TV or economic conditions compare with the influence of a previous life of crime? One that probably had a lot to do with inborn tendencies combining with environmental factors.


 
Good point. If there is a "war" on cops being waged it's because our courts and our parole/probation services are putting the "enemy" back out on the streets.


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## MJS (Jan 25, 2011)

Archangel M said:


> And let me try to say this so that I don't come off sounding bad...
> 
> Something that some of the "old dogs" and retired guys say is that back in the 60's-70's they were able to be somewhat more "free with their use of force" let me say. Saps, batons and a "beat down" was the way business was generally conducted. They say that people were a LOT more respectfull back then. I bet they were.
> 
> Not that I am suggesting that it was "right" back then..that I agree with what they did or that I want to go back to it. But part of me wonders if there isn't some sort of insight into human nature there.


 


Bruno@MT said:


> I don't think so, actually.
> There was more fear. And there was more cooperation.
> Because noone wanted to end up without his teeth at the bottom of the stairs or the sidewalk, or worse. But that doesn't automatically mean they respected the police.
> 
> Respect is what you get if people feel they can trust your word, and trust that you do the right thing.


 
Good point Bruno.  Regarding the respect...I have to wonder...if I had to take a guess, I'd be inclined to say that there probably was more respect back then, compared to today, and not because people feared getting an *** whooping, but probably because LE was viewed differently compared to the way it is today.  Now, this isn't to say that there weren't corrupt cops back then, but I do not believe it was anything like to see today.


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## crushing (Jan 25, 2011)

Bob Hubbard said:


> The sad part of this is, this high-alert state is going to get innocent people injured and possibly killed, with the repercussions getting more cops injured or killed. We all lose.


 
This killing stood out to me as I read this paragraph:  http://erikbscott.com/


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## Archangel M (Jan 25, 2011)

Theres a LOT more to the Eric Scott shooting than that web site. I don't know if this is the thread to get into it.


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## crushing (Jan 25, 2011)

Archangel M said:


> Theres a LOT more to the Eric Scott shooting than that web site. I don't know if this is the thread to get into it.


 
Yes, I've read various news reports and accounts of the shooting.  I agree that this isn't the thread to get into all that.


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## punisher73 (Jan 25, 2011)

Archangel M said:


> And let me try to say this so that I don't come off sounding bad...
> 
> Something that some of the "old dogs" and retired guys say is that back in the 60's-70's they were able to be somewhat more "free with their use of force" let me say. Saps, batons and a "beat down" was the way business was generally conducted. They say that people were a LOT more respectfull back then. I bet they were.
> 
> Not that I am suggesting that it was "right" back then..that I agree with what they did or that I want to go back to it. But part of me wonders if there isn't some sort of insight into human nature there.


 
Just to show things on the other side of the coin.  During my tenure working corrections (county jail level housing around 600), I obviously spoke with alot of criminals and many who had been in the system a VERY long time.  Even they would comment on the "youngsters".  To them it was it was almost, for lack of a better term, a game.  They would commit the crimes, the police would try to catch them.  If they tried to run or fight with the police they knew they would get beat down for their efforts.  It wasn't personal, you didn't make threats to the cop's families.  It was just the price of doing business. 

Talking to the old timers, the young guys are soft nowadays.  They are too scared and afraid to go to prison so they become violent to avoid going.  They don't know how to fight with their hands and settle it mano y mano, now they pull out a gun to protect themselves.

Street gangs have always been very violent towards law enforcement, the only thing that has changed is how the gang culture is now acceptable in all walks of life.  Don't believe it?  Go to any mall and you will see tons of teenagers dressing like gangbangers, including many "flags" that if they were to walk into the wrong part would get them killed, and they have no idea of why they wear stuff like that. Now, ballcaps are sold in solid gang colors so you can root for your team and your gang at the same time!  Don't believe that, why else would a Chicago White Sox hat be sold in all red, with the slogan, it's not just a hat it's a flag!"  The advertisors know what they are doing.  Or the NFL star who would only play for a team with red in it's colors so he wouldn't disrespect his gang?

Behavior that would have been looked down upon is now acceptable behavior in societies eyes.  Even shows like "The Shield" have a dirty cop killing and stealing from people, and yet he is the "hero" because he does more good than harm, and is somehow excusable.

There are tons of factors that are creating this dilema for law enforcement across the country, it's not just one thing but a host of things culminating into what we see today.


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## Rich Parsons (Jan 25, 2011)

Archangel M said:


> Something I see too...even here in places. Is everybodies pet "cop story" where "officer X" didn't do something that the speaker/poster wanted them (or expected them) to do.


I have cop stories, but not because of what I wanted them to do, but how they treated me and or violated my rights and thought it was ok because they had a badge. 

There a lots of good police officers. I know some. 

There a few bad cops and they may generate into a complete department acting bad as it is accepted by the others, but on the whole I would say more good then bad, but it only takes a few bad ones to make the public press and or the word of mouth network and more look bad then really are. 




Archangel M said:


> "She put cuffs on me!!!"


 
Yes, I have said this and posted it here. I did not think it was required, when I called the police for the ex-wife's boyfriend at my place threatening to kill me. When my lawyer told me there was nothing I could, I accepted it and moved on, and I do not remember posting the one without the other. 




Archangel M said:


> "He pulled me over for no reason and searched mt car!!!"


 
This has happened to me. Driving non-white in a white neighborhood. 
Driving young.





Archangel M said:


> "I have a friend...who has a brother who worked with a guy...who was pulled over and BEATEN for no reason and let go."


 
Well, I cannot speak for others and usually do not, I speak for myself, and Yes I was beaten by the police, and no charges were brought against me, as they realized they had the wrong people. I never got an apology and yes I hold a grudge. As I would expect anyone who used gang mentality to hold a person while others took their turn. It is wrong. 

PS: One of the guys who did this to me is in a very high position now in the local area.  




Archangel M said:


> Often times these get acceped with "oohh thats TERRIBLE!" by everybody participating in the conversation.


 
True it is terrible.




Archangel M said:


> It seems like whenever it's (the hypothetical)YOU who is the person who gets a ticket, or is confronted by a police officer, theres always some "issue" with what the cop did.


 
Ticket, hmmm, I have been given tickets and gone straight to pay them and had the cashiers tell me to go see the Magistrate to fight it when I already have been given a break by the police officer. Wy fight that when the officer ticketed me for speeding but was also giving me a break. I accepted my fine and moved on. 

Everytime I have been ticketed I have not had an issue with the police. It is the times they just are phishing and I end up getting violated that I have complained about. 




Archangel M said:


> I have many firsthand experiences where I was at a call and saw with my own eyes what happened. Later some citizen would call with a complaint describing events that NEVER happened. Sometimes they are just *******s who are trying to minimize their culpability or get a court case to go askew..but other times I can only assume that it's a case of people looking at events through their own lens. A lens warped by emotions, an inflated sense of self-worth and possibly from being raised to believe that they are always above reproach.


 
I agree there are a lot of bad people out there who use the complaints to try to lesson their problems. I agree that the bad guys use the system to try to get off on technicalities. 

I just hope that since Officers hold themselves above us common citizens, that they would maintain that above attitude and do the right thing all the time. But unfortunately only a few bad cops can make it look really bad for all the others. 




Archangel M said:


> A part of this picture is a lack of personal responsibility and a "I never do wrong therefore the cop must be wrong" attitude.


 
 See above, I admit my errors and take responibility to my actions. I just want the cops to do the same adn then maybe they will be police officers. 



Archangel M said:


> Not to imply that ALL of these stories are "made up". Some likely are cases of a less than stellar officer, but from what I have experienced there is a large dose of what I have described above going on and I think that Bob struck close to a likely reason for it.


 
I agree, more bad guys than bad cops, but it only takes a few bad cops to interface with a lot of people to get the stories spreading.

Once the stories spread, the bad guys use this to try to get out of their problems they are not taking responibility for. 

Many police agencies took the same stance as the Catholic church, of denying and having some internal reprimands and or moving police around. The Teachers unions did similar things and then laws were passed to allow background checks for the safety of the students. 

If the police had done the public thing dealt with the bad press then and showed improvements, then many people would not have the issue they have. 

Responibility is a two way street. 

People and police both need to take responibility for their actions. The police here on this a couple of years ago seemed to take offense to anyone questioning them or bringing up a negative comment. The actions were cover up mentality or that is how it was perceived, along with a "gang" mentality of defending the others even if they were wrong. 

After much discussion (heated) things changed a little as in this post by Archangel, he stated that it was possible for a bad apple. For a police officer to be wrong. This goes a long way towards allowing rational people to continue the discussion. For it has not been a continuation of the SOP of Cover up and deniability by the police individuals and organizations but an admission that there are some bad ones, and that they should not be allowed, yet, they can go on and quote more stats that show more bad guys than bad cops.


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## CoryKS (Jan 25, 2011)

I think it's the 'Summer of the Shark' all over again.  These things happen from time to time.  When an unusual number of them occur in a short period of time, we know we can count on our journalists to wring every last drop of sensational value out of the story.


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## jks9199 (Jan 25, 2011)

Archangel M said:


> Theres a LOT more to the Eric Scott shooting than that web site. I don't know if this is the thread to get into it.


It's not.  Interested parties are welcome to start another thread on it or on similar events (like the Fairfax County Police shooting of Salvatore Culosi).


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## Archangel M (Jan 25, 2011)

No offense Rich. I don't know you and this is not directed at you. But many people SAY that they will be the first to admit when they were at fault. I have yet to see very many people who actually do.

Thing is. From your vantage point YOU may think that being cuffed was unnecessary, but that doesn't necessiarly meant that it's so. The same applies to quite a few things that police do. There are times when its necessary to be in control of a situation and when someone isnt co-operating...TAKE control. People don't take kindly to it (as is to be expected) and to soothe their sense of righteousness will try to turn it around on the cop. I have had my own relatives gripe to me about how they were treated by an officer when my relative was entirely in the wrong and the cop did what he was supposed to. 

Minimizing ones culpability is human nature. As is deflecting blame or re-remembering things to make one feel in control.

As to the "its nice to see a cop say that cops can be bad" thing...I see that all over the place. I think every LEO here has said so on occasion. However I see a bit of "assumption" that what a cop did was unjustified aroundabouts too.


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## Rich Parsons (Jan 25, 2011)

Archangel M said:


> No offense Rich. I don't know you and this is not directed at you. But many people SAY that they will be the first to admit when they were at fault. I have yet to see very many people who actually do.
> 
> Thing is. From your vantage point YOU may think that being cuffed was unnecessary, but that doesn't necessiarly meant that it's so. The same applies to quite a few things that police do. There are times when its necessary to be in control of a situation and when someone isnt co-operating...TAKE control. People don't take kindly to it (as is to be expected) and to soothe their sense of righteousness will try to turn it around on the cop. I have had my own relatives gripe to me about how they were treated by an officer when my relative was entirely in the wrong and the cop did what he was supposed to.
> 
> ...


 
Arch,

*Setting*

I have called 911 twice, and second time woman on the phone says she is going to send an officer tomorrow to charge me with making false claims on the phone, because any "MAN" would just take the boyfriend out. I then explain that he is there and that she is letting him into the house. I could not stop her from coming an going (yet). She then changed her tune to saying stop her. I asked how? I cannot touch her. I cannot stand in front of her preventing her from entering or leaving. She could press charges against me then. Hence why I called the police 5 minutes ago for assistancein dealing with a third party at my house at 11 PM on a Thursday night. 

A single female officer shows up and I flag her down as she goes to drive by, as I have exited the house with a mobile phone (1998 - I did not have a cell yet) and was outside avoiding the two of them while they searched the house. I flagged the officer down and she pulled into the driveway. She got out and asked "Who are you?" - Me, "I called 911 for the police " She then said, Sit down. I sat down on the ground right where I was. She then pulled her gun and pointed it me and told me to stand. I did. The she told me to drop the phone. I did. She then told me to lift my jacket and turn around. I did. The ex and boyfriend stepped out of the house at this point. She saw them and smiled. Then she told me to sit. I did. Then she told me to stand. I did. Then she told me to come over to her and the police car. I did. All under gun point. She was nervous I could tell by the way her finger was on the trigger. I had been over 25 feet away when she was playing simon says with me. She then asked the ex who she was. The ex replied she was the my ex wife. The cop asked the ex if she ahd called the police. She said no. I said Ma'am I am the one that called. 

At this point she got angry. She shoved the gun towards me and said up agains the car with your hands on the roof. I complied. She holstered the weapon, and then the palmed my wallet and found out I lived there. Then she checked me for weapons. I have been checked by bouncers and police before and after. She was the only who has ever done ridge hands to my testicles to check for a weapon. She then cuffed me and placed me into the back of the her car.

She goes and talks to my ex and her boyfriend. They say that he had just come over to help her fix her car. 

The officer forgot to call in, and back up showed up. Three cars showed up one was a double so four more officers were there. As they were pulling in, she came back to her car, grabbed me by the hair and dragged me out, and took the cuffs off and then said get back into that vehicle.

If being in cuffs was wrong why did she have to remove them before the other officers say me in them? 
If I was the bad guy why did she have to cover up that she had cuffed me? 

I was not allowed to speak as they talked to the ex and the boyfriend. Then the sergeant asked me what was up. I explained and told him about it jsut as I did here. 

She denied pulling her weapon or cuffing me. 

If it was wrong why did she deny it? 

The Sergeant then asked me to leave. I asked why, since I as the one who called and who lived there. He looked at me, and then ran my story through his mind again (* at least I assume so as he took a minute and was quiet, I assume he was thinking *). He then smiled and asked the ex, and she claimed to live there. I said the divorce had not preoceeded far enough to force separate addresses, but he ( the boyfriend does not tlive here, and if you want I can provide a copy on the ansering machine of him saying eh was coming over to kill me. ) did not belong here. The officer that is true. 

I then asked for a police report. The responding officer said no.

I said I am offcially requesting. She said she was officially saying no.

I turned to the sergeant and said, I need your names for my lawyer as by law any domestic violence be it verbal or physical and the police are called a police report shall be issued upon request. (* This could be taken by some officers as being a problem person for quoting the law to them, I understand this. But I wanted my report so I coudl file for a PPO *). The Sergeant turned to the responding officer and said he (me) is correct, right him a report. She said ok, I will. They all left, including the ex. 

The report was not finished in her next two shifts and then she had three days off and then she still did not complete it in three more shifts. I called my lawyer, and he he called the police department and aske if he needed to file a complaint against them and also request all the stats on how long it takes to get a report written. 

I got the report in two days after that. 

I went to file for my PPO. 

I found out that I could not get a PPO as the ex file one against me. Which was even better as she had to list her address as somewhere else so now she coudl be there when I was not, but I was there I was in violation of the PPO, btu I could call the police and request them to come out and ask her to leave. You ask why would I know this. I had to do it enough times that a bunch of the officers signed a petition for the judge to allow me to have a PPO against her so they could arrest her. But that is not the point of this.

My point is that why did she the responding officer deny pulling her weapon and also cuffing me, when my lawyer who I am paying for me and other police officers told me that getting one person alone in a domestic is SOP and it was allowed. My whole point about this is that she is a bad cop. She was trying to cover things up versus just admit to them. She acted guilty which makes people think that she was guilty. 


On a side note: Months later when by court order the ex was getting the rest of her stuff form the house on Super-Bowl Sunday, I had two friends there by court order to watch and document any damage she did. She was destroying things, so they called me. I called the police and went there. I staid off the property and met the police officer. I showed him my PPO against her (* she was still doding being served *) and hers against me. I explained the court order and provided a copy to the officer. He then when in and talked to my friends and her and her family. My friends came out. THe officer came out a few minutes later. 

The officer explained to me that the court order was executionable by the court and the judge and the PPO was executed by the officer. I was in violation of the PPO by having my friends there as that is considered stalking by her. I told the officer I understood. I asked him if he could do me a favor. He looked at me and asked what? I said only arrest me as my friends did not have copies of the PPO nor the court order, and were there in good standing with me as a favor to me. The officer said, ok. 

I thought he was a goodofficer. He was going to arrest me. I did not expect him to let me friends go, but I asked as the PPO was against me. 

He then asked for my PPO against her. He then walked into the house. He served her. She started punching holes in the walls. He left. He told me there was nothing I could do to stop her from buring the house down, I had to get back into court first. I said thank you. I hadned my keys to my friends and walked over to his car and assumed the position. He asked me what I was doing? I said I assumed you need to check for weapons before you take me down to be processed. He smiled and said just leave and come back after she is suppsoed to be gone. 

I did not expect to walk away from that. I was not mad at him for doing his job. I was not upset with him. I resigned to the process. I had done everything to avoid a situation to be put into jail for her and the divorce and I had made the mistake of thinking the court order was superior to the PPO. It is in court and as far as the judge is concerned but as far as the officer was concerned the PPO was the immediate order they could act upon. 


The beating was younger and a much different story.


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## Bruno@MT (Jan 25, 2011)

Related to Rich's story: it takes only 1 such event to cause a lifelong grudge or an eternal distrust of the police.

And there is also the dilemma of being the victim of such a thing. What can you do? There is noone to complain to except the police. Convenient for them. And even if you end up talking with IA, you can bet you're in trouble because if a small group of cops see no bones in beating you up, then they're probably not above retaliation either.

This is something that is guaranteed to breed resentment: being afraid, being harrassed or worse, and not being able to do anything about it. Kinda like being bullied in high school. Talking to the administrator will usually only make things worse because they'll talk to the bullies (who'll know you ratted them out) and their parents (who'll often think their little johnny wouldn't do that) and they'll be bullied even more the next day.


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## Archangel M (Jan 25, 2011)

Bruno@MT said:


> Related to Rich's story: it takes only 1 such event to cause a lifelong grudge or an eternal distrust of the police.
> 
> And there is also the dilemma of being the victim of such a thing. What can you do? There is noone to complain to except the police. Convenient for them. And even if you end up talking with IA, you can bet you're in trouble because if a small group of cops see no bones in beating you up, then they're probably not above retaliation either.
> 
> This is something that is guaranteed to breed resentment: being afraid, being harrassed or worse, and not being able to do anything about it. Kinda like being bullied in high school. Talking to the administrator will usually only make things worse because they'll talk to the bullies (who'll know you ratted them out) and their parents (who'll often think their little johnny wouldn't do that) and they'll be bullied even more the next day.



Ahhh..that "if I complain the cops will retaliate" thing...while probably true in some areas is another overblown "Shield" thing IMO. We have fired or suspended officers numerous times because of a complaint and an IA. Many times the "complaint", while justified simply isnt going to result in a termination. I have fielded complaints as varied as "the officer FOLLOWED me in his car, stopped me and then shined a FLASHLIGHT in my car without a warrant!!!...oh and he never read me my RIGHTS!! I want him FIRED!!"

Not to minimize how wrong "bad cops" can be. But I could trade complaints like that at least 2 for one to every "I was cuffed and I didn't like it" story.


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## Archangel M (Jan 25, 2011)

And to be perfectly honest, there are probably a couple of cops we would enjoy getting some complaints on so we could have a valid foundation for discipline....


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## Bruno@MT (Jan 25, 2011)

Archangel M said:


> Ahhh..that "if I complain the cops will retaliate" thing...while probably true in some areas is another overblown "Shield" thing IMO. We have fired or suspended officers numerous times because of a complaint and an IA. Many times the "complaint", while justified simply isnt going to result in a termination. I have fielded complaints as varied as "the officer FOLLOWED me in his car, stopped me and then shined a FLASHLIGHT in my car without a warrant!!!...oh and he never read me my RIGHTS!!!".
> 
> Not to minimize how wrong "bad cops" can be. But I could trade complaints like that at least 2 for one to every "I was cuffed and I didn't like it" story.





Yeah I can honestly believe that.
But I do know about being bullied in highschool and the options you have.
If you are not involved, it is probably easy enough to argue that legit complaints will end with a punishment of the bully without repercussions. But if you're the one being bullied and the chance of retaliation is real, it is a whole different outlook.

That was just what I wanted to point out: the feeling of helplessness and resentment if you're the victim.


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## Rich Parsons (Jan 25, 2011)

Archangel M said:


> Ahhh..that "if I complain the cops will retaliate" thing...while probably true in some areas is another overblown "Shield" thing IMO. We have fired or suspended officers numerous times because of a complaint and an IA. Many times the "complaint", while justified simply isnt going to result in a termination. I have fielded complaints as varied as "the officer FOLLOWED me in his car, stopped me and then shined a FLASHLIGHT in my car without a warrant!!!...oh and he never read me my RIGHTS!! I want him FIRED!!"
> 
> Not to minimize how wrong "bad cops" can be. But I could trade complaints like that at least 2 for one to every "I was cuffed and I didn't like it" story.


 
Well not to give more date, but for almost a year I was always pulled over for crossing the line as I always drove 5 to 10 under to avoid being close to give them a reason to pull me over. 

It was not until, I sent pictures (* yes I followed them *) to the then Chief, and told them to stop follow me (* I did not identify myself *) and said if I get pulled over ne more time for no reason I would send to the press. 

Pictures of police while on duty going to girlfriends to party with alcohol or weed they had gotten from a stop earlier in the night. Some of them had wives and party girlfriends as well. After this I do have to say it cleaned up some. But all complaints before were treated just like I am here.

There are more people who cry wolf then there are bad cops.

You are young, are we to trust you over a police officer? (* who might have been my age *)

You had to do something wrong to get pulled over in the first place. It has to be your fault. 

Well if there are bad cops, and they pull people over to beat them up for being non white or they pull them over in hopes of getting something off of them to "party" on later and they do not find something they make something up. Complaints against these guys in towns the size of 5k to 15k do not have large IA departments, they are lucky to have a detective to look into these things. Not everyone lives in the area of a large police department. It might be a suburb. So my point is that it goes a real long way for the Police community to admit there are bad cops, to not close ranks and tell us those assaulted that we were wrong or made a mistake for driving while being non white. 

To that I say go home white people, and give this country back to the Native American Indians. I know that will never happen, so I hope that the police community can be mature enough as a group to admit that there are some. Listen to the complaints, and ask yourself, why would an A / B Student who worked and helped get his younger brother through high school as mother died of cancer, make this stuff up? 

I am not a victum, I do not assume it was my fault and that it will always happen and draw them in for more. 

I do not flip off the police, I do not insult them, I say sir, (* and this causes many of them to get upset fo rthey think it is an insult when it is not *) and I tell them what happened. 

But if the community steps back and says hey there are bad cops out there we need to stand up and say so and say we will not tolerate them and not wait for complaints that may not come for fear of retaliation and write the complaint yourself, and the Union be danged. Integrity is integrity, does the police community have it?  Yes or no? 



That being said, what has been happening is WRONG!

No one should be shot just because. No one should loos a husband/wife or parent or child because they are police officer. These actions are wrong and should be stopped. How I do not know, but I think the part of the anger at the community could be addressed with what I am saying here. Admit there are bad guys, do not insult people by telling them no disrespect but you are wrong because I know of this case where this guy complained to get out of trouble. From a logical stand point that arguement is invalid by your own points. 

Now I am not saying baby those who make comments. Just acknowledge them. Do not insult them no matter how much you want to defend the brotherhood as you are a part of it, by telling them is was their fault and that it was not the police officer's fault. 

Provide positive stories, and ask for them (* which was done here, most people do not have positive stories with police but there are some *). 

A war on cops should be tolerated by the population of this country. 
A war by the police on the population should not be tolerated, and the police believe they are not, but it sometimes feels like that when you close ranks and defend the bad guys and accuse those who are not in the brotherhood. 

With respect gentlemen, I do not write this to make you mad. I do not write this to be insulting or trying to start a fight. I write this to say, here is my opinion, and here is how I think you can help. Many times the issue is identified form the outside, but it takes the people on the inside to implement the change(s).


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## Carol (Jan 25, 2011)

I'm wondering if these are copycat crimes.

The rise in internet communication has also spawned a rise communication from individuals that are very much pro-LE.  I have been a part of a forum for translators and other bilingual folks for a long time since my native language is English but I also speak Spanish.  I help folks whose native language is Spanish but they also speak English, and in return they help me.  One can be quite fluent in another language, but still be unsure of regionalisms, colloquialisms, expressions, etc.

Within the past 2 or so years, there have been a few native Spanish speakers that have asked for help in translating a phrase such as "He is a staunch supporter of law enforcement."  This is a fairly recent phrase in our lexicon.  

For better or worse, I believe the media has picked up on this sentiment and has discovered that it sells copy quite well.  As such, stories that in the past might not have been covered outside the local news market or certain LE circles are now being stories that are talked about throughout the country.  I was married at a church in Woburn, Mass. in 1996.  Had that been the year that Officer Jack Maguire was shot, I'm not sure many folks would have known about it.  However, the events happened in 2010, and has been talked about around the country. 

Wiki says:



> It has been shown that most of the persons who mimic crimes seen in the  media (especially news and violent movies) have in most cases prior  criminal records, prior severe mental health problems or histories of  violence suggesting that the effect of the media is indirect (more  affecting criminal behaviour) rather than direct (directly affecting the  number of criminals).[2]



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copycat_crimes
in reference to:
http://cad.sagepub.com/content/48/1/46.abstract

That certainly seems to fit Archangel's thread here, complete with his comment that as usual, the perp had a violent history.
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=93030 

To my untrained eyes, copycats seem to be the most consistent explanation....but this isn't my field of expertise.


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## jks9199 (Jan 25, 2011)

Archangel M said:


> And to be perfectly honest, there are probably a couple of cops we would enjoy getting some complaints on so we could have a valid foundation for discipline....


Yep...  I've seen a few over the years at various agencies that everyone wondered how they weren't fired.  But nobody actually complained... so nothing got done.


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## jks9199 (Jan 25, 2011)

Rich Parsons said:


> To that I say go home white people, and give this country back to the Native American Indians. I know that will never happen, so I hope that the police community can be mature enough as a group to admit that there are some. Listen to the complaints, and ask yourself, why would an A / B Student who worked and helped get his younger brother through high school as mother died of cancer, make this stuff up?


I, and most of the other LEOs on this site have never denied that there are bad cops, ranging from simply incompetent and unconfident, to outright dirty and criminal.  But there are also a whole lot of people out there who think they know what is legal or right, and they simply don't.  They have unrealistic views of violence, and sometimes they outright refuse to accept that the real world isn't as pretty as a movie.


> A war on cops should be tolerated by the population of this country.
> A war by the police on the population should not be tolerated, and the police believe they are not, but it sometimes feels like that when you close ranks and defend the bad guys and accuse those who are not in the brotherhood.


I hope that your first sentence here is a typo; I hope that you're not condoning a war -- or even simple assaults on the police.


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## Rich Parsons (Jan 26, 2011)

jks9199 said:


> I, and most of the other LEOs on this site have never denied that there are bad cops, ranging from simply incompetent and unconfident, to outright dirty and criminal. But there are also a whole lot of people out there who think they know what is legal or right, and they simply don't. They have unrealistic views of violence, and sometimes they outright refuse to accept that the real world isn't as pretty as a movie.
> 
> I hope that your first sentence here is a typo; I hope that you're not condoning a war -- or even simple assaults on the police.


 
Should NOT be.

My Apologies JKS et al on that typo.

As to the law, I have meet many an officer that did not know it either. You do not argue it on the side of the road, you stay calm and cooperative and then take then to court and deal with it there.


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## sgtmac_46 (Jan 27, 2011)

MJS said:


> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41235743/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/
> 
> 
> 
> And then people wonder why cops are always on the edge, why you always see numerous cops on traffic stops, etc.  Some will call it abuse of power, but I think its more CYA.  In todays world, it seems that's the way that you have to be.




Why would police fear war on cops?  All these incidents were disconnected incidents, having nothing to do with each other.

Sounds more like a ratcheting up and continuance of the same rhetoric from the Tucson shooting on the part of the media.


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## sgtmac_46 (Jan 27, 2011)

jks9199 said:


> Organized?  No.  A social and political climate that is lending itself increasingly to attacks on cops, both as visible symbols of the government and of authority?  Yes.



That's not really true, either.......there has been a DECLINE in law enforcement homicides for the last 30 years.

Try 'increased media scrutiny for any national events that fit in to the Tucson related narrative on national violence'.....there is a narrative that has been created that all of this is being used to support.

Statistical anomalies occur......this is hardly indicative of a change in the overall downward trend of violence against against law enforcement officers.  

For the last several years the number one killer of law enforcement officers has been traffic related incidents.


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## sgtmac_46 (Jan 27, 2011)

If you examine the details of these recent incidents, you will find that many of theories here are simply incorrect.

Lets examine the St. Petersburg police shooting....

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20029431-504083.html

A felony fugitive, being hunted by the US Marshals Service/Local Task Force, was tracked to a residence, where a female resident told them he was hiding in the attic and possibly armed.

They climbed up in to the attic after an armed and desperate fugitive, who subsequently opened fire.

Nothing here illustrates some national trend, or some changing paradigm in police work........merely a desperate fugitive doing what desperate fugitives have always done......and some questionable tactics on the part of the responding officers.........

.......I do not know WHY they chose to climb up in to a hole after a dangerous fugitive they were just informed was possibly armed........that makes no sense to me having been in the same kind of situation myself.  Absolutely none.  And it makes the outcome doubly sad that it was predictable.


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## MJS (Jan 27, 2011)

sgtmac_46 said:


> Why would police fear war on cops? All these incidents were disconnected incidents, having nothing to do with each other.
> 
> Sounds more like a ratcheting up and continuance of the same rhetoric from the Tucson shooting on the part of the media.


 

Well, I didn't say that they were, I'm just saying what the article was saying.   As for the article...be that as it may, I think the jist of this article was due to the fact that there've been a number of shootings, involving police.  Seems to me that author of the article was wondering if people were on some rampage.


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## Archangel M (Jan 27, 2011)

From Jan. 1st through the 25th nationwide:
53 police officers/agents have been shot at;
37 have been hit by gunfire;
14 were in a 36-hour time frame;
10 died (by gunfire);
......2 remain in critical condition
Stats coutesy of Law Enforcement Today


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## Bruno@MT (Jan 28, 2011)

Part of the issue is also that cops are just the most visible and interactive representation of the 'legal system' for people who have a grudge against the legal system. They're the most visible, the most accessible, and have the most interaction.


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## sgtmac_46 (Jan 29, 2011)

MJS said:


> Well, I didn't say that they were, I'm just saying what the article was saying.  As for the article...be that as it may, I think the jist of this article was due to the fact that there've been a number of shootings, involving police. Seems to me that author of the article was wondering if people were on some rampage.


 
First, I worded that wrong, as I wasn't intended to mean 'you' were saying that, I knew what you were saying. 

Second, yes the author was obviously wondering so, but very erroneously, as none of the incident suggested some larger cultural connection.


One must be careful to avoid the 'Blue Car' fallacy.


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## Hudson69 (Feb 4, 2011)

I don't know of, personally, any Officer, Agent, Deputy, or other LEO that has ever feared a war on cops.  We tend to use this as more of a resolve to train harder and more often and try and to always have the right mindset and to be prepared.  

Whenever there is a large amount of police violence (as the victims) or something similar it should serve as a reminder to those of us in uniform (or out, but carrying a badge) to always be on our guard; complacency kills.


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## sgtmac_46 (Feb 5, 2011)

Hudson69 said:


> I don't know of, personally, any Officer, Agent, Deputy, or other LEO that has ever feared a war on cops. We tend to use this as more of a resolve to train harder and more often and try and to always have the right mindset and to be prepared.
> 
> Whenever there is a large amount of police violence (as the victims) or something similar it should serve as a reminder to those of us in uniform (or out, but carrying a badge) to always be on our guard; complacency kills.


 
Indeed!


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