# Sore knees



## HK Phooey (Aug 11, 2011)

For those of you who got sore knees when you started, how long was it before it went away?

My knees are currently limiting my advancement - even at this early stage, I can sense how much extra strength is generated through the legs and waist when the stance is right. Unfortunately, my knees are complaining about the pigeon toed stance and especially the twisting punches.

Sifu's advice is to take it easy for now, with a taller stance than ideal. I'm also only doing the twisting punches while wearing socks. I still get the knee pains, but they go away within a couple of days, suggesting that I'm straining them enough to make them stronger, but not enough to injure them.

 So, keep doing what I'm doing? Any suggestions on excercises to strengthen the knee ligaments? And how long should I expect this to go for? Thanks in advance!


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## Cyriacus (Aug 11, 2011)

See now, the tricky thing is knowing if its the Hamstrings or actual Leg Muscles.

Hamstrings: Stretch.
Leg Muscles: Now, i cant remember what these are called. You assume a... eh... Put one leg forward twice your shoulder width in length, with about shoulder width in between. Bend your front leg so that your shin is pointing straight up. Keeping your back leg straight until now. Bend your back leg so that your knee is just above the ground, keeping your hands on your hips. If done correctly, this will put a fair bit of strain on the leg your bending. Hold it for 10-20 seconds, maybe less if your legs are predisposedly weak; Then slowly stand back up, and repeat on the other side. If you can, id advise doing about 5 for each leg per day, for two days, then one day off, then for two days, and so forth.

Thats one option. Its a bit intensive, but it works.


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## mook jong man (Aug 11, 2011)

I can't remember how long it lasted to be honest.But persevere with it , eventually it will go away.Sink down into your stance , try to relax the thighs and let the knees go.Keep doing the Sil lum Tao form and practicing your standing , maybe back off on the pivoting for a while.No other exercises are needed , only time and practice of Sil lum Tao form and stance in general will help.Muscles will learn to relax , tendons and ligaments will adapt.


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## zepedawingchun (Aug 11, 2011)

The bending of the knees, if done correctly, in the pigeon-toed stance (yee jee kim yeung ma) should not cause any pain in the knees whatsoever.  If you are having pain from the stance, it may mean:


1.  The knees are bent too much.  Straighten them a little bit and see if that eases the tension and pain.

2.  Sinking too far down putting too much weight on the knees, pretty much the same as no. 1.  Again, straighten the knees a bit and don't sink too much weight.

3.  Andf the thing that almost everyone does too much of, toes turned too much inward.  Don't point the toes (feet) too pigeon-toed, turn them straight ahead a little bit.

Nothing in the YJKYM stance should hurt or damage the body.  If that is happening, then you are definitely doing something wrong.  It is counter to everything Wing Chun is trying to do which is aid and assist in being a better person, physically, emotionally, and spiritually.  In this case, no pain no gain, is not something you want to follow.


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## yak sao (Aug 11, 2011)

Lots of good advice already, just to throw my character two cents worth in....

in our lineage, we make sure 

the feet are at no more than 60 degree angles ( as in an equilateral triangle)
the knees not out past the toes
adductng not simply inward, as this places too much stress on the inside of the knee, but squeezing inwards and forwards, in the directions the toes are facing
stance approx. a little wider at than the shoulders, that is, the heels should be slightly outside the shoulders if you were to drop a plumb bob down from the shoulders
       Ice them after training


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## Buka (Aug 11, 2011)

I know these don't look like much, but they work well. This first one is specific to the stance you mentioned. Just go at it easy and relaxed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYHieK9ZYrs

This is really good too, and foam rollers are cheap. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9aJtO0VCqw&playnext=1&list=PLDD3781BA983FE0D6

A lot of times, knee pain in the stance you described comes from a strength imbalance between quads and hamstrings. Try this. You might notice a difference in as little as two days. If not, it' still a great supplement for a Martial Artist.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czf-1snzG2c

Lastly, take any advice you read on the internet with a grain of salt. (like this post)


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## HK Phooey (Aug 11, 2011)

Thanks so much to everyone for the helpful tips. 

I tried Cyriacus's leg excercises earlier today before I had to go out, and I'll certainly try out the others to see which ones help. My hamstrings do seem to be stronger than my leg muscles - probably due to doing a lot of fast walking, but very little running or lifting.

Not going too extreme on the stance and avoiding jerky movements seems to keep things from getting out of control. I'll keep listening to what my knees tell me and do some SLT stance whenever I have a spare moment.

 It's still early days and I've got a long way to go before I've conditioned not only my knees, but every part of the body to make an effective WC practitioner.


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## Xue Sheng (Aug 11, 2011)

Do what I did last weekend

Ice the knees for three days and Take two days off from training while doing that.

Knees hurt on Friday and felt great by Monday and I am back at it


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## Domino (Aug 19, 2011)

Has only recently started happening for me, left knee joint inside, although I walk or run to work and walk all day for my job.
Sister mentioned 'tendonitis' and just to relax for a few days and do less, worked so far but i won't hold my breath.
You mentioned walking alot, check your walking properly if that makes sense and not got some old worn out trainers.


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