# Baseball hall of fame. McGwire, yes or no?



## mrhnau (Nov 28, 2006)

McGwire is coming up for the baseball hall of fame ballot. Think he should get in? His numbers are incredibly impressive, but people are shying away from him because of his alleged steroid use. What do you think? I saw it discussed here.

On another topic, should Bonds get in? How about Sosa with possible steroids and corked bats?  How about Canseco, with admitted steroids usage?


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## terryl965 (Nov 28, 2006)

mrhnau said:


> McGwire is coming up for the baseball hall of fame ballot. Think he should get in? His numbers are incredibly impressive, but people are shying away from him because of his alleged steroid use. What do you think? I saw it discussed here.
> 
> On another topic, should Bonds get in? How about Sosa with possible steroids and corked bats? How about Canseco, with admitted steroids usage?


 

Yes they should be in, at this point in time, there numbers speaks volume so why not.


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## mrhnau (Nov 28, 2006)

terryl965 said:


> Yes they should be in, at this point in time, there numbers speaks volume so why not.



I assume you would be in favor of Pete Rose getting in then?


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## terryl965 (Nov 28, 2006)

mrhnau said:


> I assume you would be in favor of Pete Rose getting in then?


 

Yes I do believe he should be in, what he did, was taken care of, his play was never in question and the Hall of Frame is about number and his was great as well.

I do not endrose what he did but he did have a hell of a career and should be reconized.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Nov 28, 2006)

Personally I just do not like Halls of Fame. (not in any sport or activity)  
To me there numbers are good so eventually they will get in.  However the stigma of roids will follow them and they will never be able to shake it.  However having been around elite athletes at the collegiate level the question should be : why are we kidding ourselves as almost *all*  are doing performance enhancing drugs?  Only a very, very, very rare athlete can compete at the highest level without using performance enhancing drugs in this day and age.  That is simply a fact based on first hand experience in lifting and training with collegiate athletes.  There is a mentality that is prevalent that in order to get ahead you need the performance enhancers.  It is almost impossible for these athletes to not use them based on the incredible way they could benefit financially when they do use them.


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## The Kidd (Nov 28, 2006)

McGwire, No, he was a one trick pony, if you let him in then there are other guys who all they did was hit homeruns that you should let in. Even though I do not like them until the rules change Rose and Bonds should be in.


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## mrhnau (Nov 28, 2006)

The Kidd said:


> McGwire, No, he was a one trick pony, if you let him in then there are other guys who all they did was hit homeruns that you should let in. Even though I do not like them until the rules change Rose and Bonds should be in.



Well, you could say that about some other guys in the hall... he was a decent fielder too. He set the home run record and with the help of Sosa really re-energized baseball I think. He even got ME watching for a little while! I think he really did alot for the sport at a time it was floundering.

I don't think andro was banned at the time McGwire was using it. Was he doing other stuff? I don't know, and I don't think it will be medically proven that he did.

Part of me thinks if it can be proven he did illegal steroids (not just andro) at the time, he should not get in. I can't prove that other hall members did not do it though, or that they were squeeky clean. The hall is sort of irrelevant for the common fan, but is a money maker for the player I think... should we let him make -more- money if he is a proven cheater?

I wonder how pro-sports today would look w/out performance enhancers? "pro"-wrestling included.


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## arnisador (Nov 28, 2006)

I would be in favor of Mark McGwire getting in. Where's the proof that he violated rules?



mrhnau said:


> I assume you would be in favor of Pete Rose getting in then?



I used to be, but arguments to the contrary have convinced me that what he did was too undermining to the integrity of the game, so now I (reluctantly) do not support it.


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## matt.m (Nov 28, 2006)

McGwire, Canseco, Bonds, Palmero, yes they should......I think Bonds is an absoulte jerk, however he deserves to be in the hall based on numbers alone.  Look at it this way, training methods of the 50's - 70's were not that great....Training methods improve etc.  However, in Mark and Jose's big beginning Steroids were not illegal.  Anabolics didn't become illegal until 90 or 91.

Gee, if you consider the athletes across the pro sports board that are roid heads and took them out.....Bodybuilding to the Olympics and across the board then the competition would be few in numbers.

I wrestled and did Judo for the Marine Corps, a ton of people did steroids or diuretics at the time.  However, small drawn out amounts.  It would be like comparing creatine to anavor.


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## Tames D (Nov 28, 2006)

The Kidd said:


> McGwire, No, he was a one trick pony, if you let him in then there are other guys who all they did was hit homeruns that you should let in. Even though I do not like them until the rules change Rose and Bonds should be in.


 
In that case, Nolan Ryan was a one trick pony. He only threw strikes.


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## Ping898 (Nov 28, 2006)

McGwire - yes, he did nothing technically banned in the game Bonds - no, he's an ***, doesn't deserve it drugs or not, Pete Rose - No, Sosa - No (he doesn't deserve it, more than the drugs thing)


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## Grenadier (Nov 29, 2006)

The Hall of Fame should be based on what they did on the field, as well as off the field.  This is why I would approve of folks like Nolan Ryan, and Mark McGwire, as candidates while giving thumbs down to individuals the likes of Barry Bonds or Jose Canseco.  

Ryan and McGwire were gentlemen off the field, and contributed much to society, while not doing illegal things (androstenedione was not a banned substance at the time).  If you look at what those two have done off the field, they've given baseball a much more positive image.  

Barry Bonds is going to get squashed by legal problems any second now, and is a jerk off the field.  

With regards to Jose Canseco, one need only look at his rap sheet, and the fact that he's a jackass off the field.  He constantly tries to come up with excuses to his pitiful situation, even trying to play the race card on several occasions ("everyone hates me because I'm Cuban!").


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## mrhnau (Nov 29, 2006)

Ping898 said:


> McGwire - yes, he did nothing technically banned in the game


Yes, I agree.



> Bonds - no, he's an ***, doesn't deserve it drugs or not


The hall is not a popularity contest, at least its not supposed to be. His record clearly makes his case for the hall. If his legal woes come through and he is shown to have used lots of illegal drugs, then the case is stronger for not getting in. He is the most feared hitter of the past 5ish years.



> Pete Rose - No


I'd like to see him in there, though perhaps post-mortem. Hate to say it that way, but it ensures he never profits from hall entry. He already has his profits from gambling, no need to increase his income.



> Sosa - No (he doesn't deserve it, more than the drugs thing)


I think he is deserving. He has had some fantastic and consistent seasons. Only possible downside is he was not consistent through his career. I'd prefer to have strong evidence of drug use before banning him. I'd also like it somewhat proven that corked bats were not the norm for him.


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## The Kidd (Nov 29, 2006)

QUI-GON said:


> In that case, Nolan Ryan was a one trick pony. He only threw strikes.


 
Pitchers are different than hitters, Ryan; alltime strikeouts, 7 no-hitters, and over 300 wins, more than a one trick pony!


As for Mr McGwires numbers, lets look at 2 players for instance Mark McGwire and Dave Kingman:

Both have over 440 Home Runs
Both have a batting Average under .264
Both have over 1200 RBI's
Both have over 1500 Strikeouts

True McGwire had one unbelievable season but one season does not a career make. Mark was good not great and the Hall is meant for great players and yes I think there are people in the Hall who shouln'dt be.


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## Brian Jones (Dec 1, 2006)

It's interesting that this year that the voters for the HoF are not only to look at numbers, longevity, but also chacter.  Since when??  Does that mean we can throw out Ty Cobb?  He was a sociopath.  
     Do I think McGwire should get in? Probably. We have no proof that  he did take steroids and in this country we are innocent until proven guilty.  DO I think he took steroids?  Yep.  But without proof its difficult to convict.   I seriously doubt he will get in this year, especially with the field he is going up against (Gwynn, Ripken).
  I also think Pete Rose should be in the HoF. Its about thwt he did on the field as a player.  There is no reason why he could not be put in the HoF, but still be banned from working in baseball.  I would be all in favor of that. (And Shoeless Joe Jackson)

Brian Jones


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## g-bells (Dec 1, 2006)

McGwire- yes    Bonds,a-hole, - but yes he should be in and Rose-yes


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