# Please help me to choose a right self defence course



## sun (Jun 27, 2015)

Hi
This is my 1st post. Glad to be in this active forum, hope you can help.
I'm a 25 years old woman. I want to learn how to protect myself. Within my budget, I have two options.
One year classes of Japanese karate or 3 month course of krav maga.

Now my parents concerns on this are , they think if I get any wounds in this age, then I will get permanent injury. Plus they think I will produce manly muscles.

My requirement is to make me capable of fighting a gang rape (which is very common in now a days).

So please help me which course I should take. I play guitar, I heard karate students practice by punching on hot sand. So I'm very confuse at this point. I know I might sound sissy. But really need experts view here.

Thank you
Regards.


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## drop bear (Jun 27, 2015)

Strong is the new sexy.

What sort of karate?


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## Tames D (Jun 27, 2015)

If those are your only 2 options. I'd go with Krav Maga. I think you will get faster results.


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## dcj0524 (Jun 27, 2015)

Krav will produce faster results. 

Against gang rape you'd want to know how to grapple though

Sent from my HTC6525LVW using Tapatalk


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## Langenschwert (Jun 28, 2015)

Since you're 25, any wounds you get will heal very quickly. It's when you're 40 that things get irritatingly. MA has yet to give me large manly muscles. Gotten me in pretty good shape though.


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## marques (Jun 28, 2015)

Maybe Krav... if you don't have other choices. 
First year(s) Karate, possibly, you will do only kata (sort of solo choreography...).


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## Brian R. VanCise (Jun 28, 2015)

I would advise you to try a free class with each group and see which instructor your would enjoy training with the most.


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## Jenna (Jun 28, 2015)

@sun, welcome along! Your concerns mirror those of many other women so your experience and learning of what works for you would be very useful to a lot of others!

Like Brian said above, pluck up the nerve to take your self along and either try out both for comparison of if that is not possible, at the very least ask to see what both the places are like or talk to the instructors and explain your needs and requirements, see how you react to them, and get a feel for their places, see if it suits you.  

After that, I would totally recommend you go with your GUT instinct.. you can get all the expert opinion you like here or elsewhere though it will count for little if you go along on good faith to one or the other and end up not liking it.. Please tell us how this goes for you as your experience would be very valuable for others with exactly those wondering about how to protect themselves are you are! wishes Jxxx


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## aedrasteia (Jun 28, 2015)

sun said:


> Hi
> 
> My requirement is to make me capable of fighting a gang rape (which is very common in now a days).
> Thank you
> Regards.



Hi Sun glad to have you here and will do my best to be useful. I'm a girl
(older  :->) with background in judo, aikido and some karate (Shuriryu). I think well of both karate and KMaga, but not for your needs as I understand them. Please feel free to access my previous posts so you will have a better idea of my POV.
Can you tell us generally where you are and what's brought you to this question?  What's the situation where you are and your special concern w/ gang rape?  A little more information about this will help as we think of what meets your needs.
w/respect A


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## Buka (Jun 28, 2015)

Welcome to MT, Sun.


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## Hanzou (Jun 28, 2015)

Honestly try them both out and see which one you prefer. You might hate Krav, but love Karate. Only you can decide what art is best for you.


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## Steve (Jun 28, 2015)

If you really have a serious concern about being gang raped, I think neither is going to be much help.  I'd recommend taking aedrasteia up on her offer.   There are more effective ways to avoid being gang raped than learning a martial art, and she has a lot of experience with women's self defense.


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## aedrasteia (Jun 28, 2015)

Steve said:


> If you really have a serious concern about being gang raped, I think neither is going to be much help.  I'd recommend taking aedrasteia up on her offer.   There are more effective ways to avoid being gang raped than learning a martial art, and she has a lot of experience with women's self defense.



Steve - thank you. I hope I can help, and to be clear - I think taking karate and/or krav training from a solid instructor at a good school is a great idea for Sun.  At the same time there is so *much more* than technique to be dealt with as we confront sexual assault and I've yet to find krav or karate that includes what women/girls truly need. again, thanks for the good thoughts.
w/respect A


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## Langenschwert (Jun 28, 2015)

Just to be clear, being outnumbered is bad. There is no guarantee of being able to defend yourself against gang rape no matter what art you study. Two on one is bad odds. Three on one is VERY bad odds. The chances of prevailing in that situation are very slim, but better than with no training at all. Basically, you want to be as strong, tough and trained as possible, and carry whatever weapons the law allows.

All the training in the world won't do you any good if you haven't given yourself permission to use it well ahead of time, as in day 1 of training.


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## jks9199 (Jun 28, 2015)

There's a lot here...  

I'm going to start with a simple question:  Why do you think gang rape is common?  What is your source of information?  Because, in the US, the reality is that outside of certain environments, gang rape is extremely uncommon.  (Most rape falls into the description of "acquaintance rape"...)  If you're in those environments, all the martial arts in the world won't help you, because you've either put yourself in an extremely vulnerable position (think college student who gets drunk at a frat party...) or you're in an environment where violence is beyond common (think gang "toy") -- and resistance is pretty unlikely.

So...  You want to learn to protect yourself, quickly?  I'd say that a good Krav Maga school is more likely to give you solid skills in a quicker time.  That's what it's built around, while a karate school (there's a huge variety of them...) is more likely to be built around a lifetime training process.  Your concerns about getting "manly" are misplaced; there are plenty of solid exercise sites that can address that more fully than I can -- but in brief, your body ain't likely designed to build up the same way. But...  Physical skills are really a last phase in protecting yourself from harm.

Self protection starts a lot earlier than the violence...It starts by not going into dangerous places because "violence happens in places."  Often places where people get their minds altered... chemically or otherwise.  And violence happens between people... often people who have had their minds altered.  Seeing a theme?  There are many places to start, and if you look around the forum here, you'll see it discussed often.


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## Steve (Jun 28, 2015)

aedrasteia said:


> Steve - thank you. I hope I can help, and to be clear - I think taking karate and/or krav training from a solid instructor at a good school is a great idea for Sun.  At the same time there is so *much more* than technique to be dealt with as we confront sexual assault and I've yet to find krav or karate that includes what women/girls truly need. again, thanks for the good thoughts.
> w/respect A


karate, Krav, Bjj, tkd, tai Bo, cardio kickboxing.  I don't personally believe that the martial arts training is what will prevent a rape.   It's the "much more "you mention.   That's my opinion.


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## Steve (Jun 28, 2015)

jks9199 said:


> There's a lot here...
> 
> I'm going to start with a simple question:  Why do you think gang rape is common?  What is your source of information?  Because, in the US, the reality is that outside of certain environments, gang rape is extremely uncommon.  (Most rape falls into the description of "acquaintance rape"...)  If you're in those environments, all the martial arts in the world won't help you, because you've either put yourself in an extremely vulnerable position (think college student who gets drunk at a frat party...) or you're in an environment where violence is beyond common (think gang "toy") -- and resistance is pretty unlikely.


im glad someone else said this.   This was my initial reaction.


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## drop bear (Jun 28, 2015)

Steve said:


> If you really have a serious concern about being gang raped, I think neither is going to be much help.  I'd recommend taking aedrasteia up on her offer.   There are more effective ways to avoid being gang raped than learning a martial art, and she has a lot of experience with women's self defense.



Depends a bit on where she is from. Different cultures have different defence to rape. 

I mean if you look at India  they train to beat people with sticks. As a method it works for them.


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## Steve (Jun 28, 2015)

drop bear said:


> Depends a bit on where she is from. Different cultures have different defence to rape.
> 
> I mean if you look at India  they train to beat people with sticks. As a method it works for them.


I have no idea what the hell would work in India.   I'll take your word for it.   Is the op from India?


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## drop bear (Jun 28, 2015)

Steve said:


> I have no idea what the hell would work in India.   I'll take your word for it.   Is the op from India?



Lets ask some more questions and find out.


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## Steve (Jun 28, 2015)

drop bear said:


> Lets ask some more questions and find out.


I'm not stopping you from asking any questions you'd like, but I also notice you aren't asking Many questions.   If it helps, you have my blessing.     Go ahead and ask away.


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## Hanzou (Jun 28, 2015)

dcj0524 said:


> Krav will produce faster results.
> 
> Against gang rape you'd want to know how to grapple though



I agree actually. That being the case, I would recommend Krav over Karate.

But really, 3 months of Krav isn't going to do much. I take it that there's no Bjj or Judo around you? Those would be even better options.


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## dcj0524 (Jun 28, 2015)

Hanzou said:


> I agree actually. That being the case, I would recommend Krav over Karate.
> 
> But really, 3 months of Krav isn't going to do much. I take it that there's no Bjj or Judo around you? Those would be even better options.


I practice Shaolin Kempo Karate which mixes Karate Kung-fu and jiu-jitsu and we had a sexual assault seminar in our dojo last October. even though I'm male I attended. My instructors said Most of those encounters (gang bangs) start with a  surprise grab of some-sort so the only thing to use is jiu-jitsu (in our case) . Karate and krav are great if you perceive the threat and strike first or they strike but what if they get a hold of you and pin you to the ground? More importantly you have to be trained about the steps before the fight, are you aware of the threats? What time of day is it?  Are you alone?  Has anyone been following you?  Just simple awareness can save your life.  From personal experience that part is even more important than the actual fight.


Sent from my HTC6525LVW using Tapatalk


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## sun (Jun 30, 2015)

Jenna said:


> @sun, welcome along! Your concerns mirror those of many other women so your experience and learning of what works for you would be very useful to a lot of others!
> 
> Like Brian said above, pluck up the nerve to take your self along and either try out both for comparison of if that is not possible, at the very least ask to see what both the places are like or talk to the instructors and explain your needs and requirements, see how you react to them, and get a feel for their places, see if it suits you.
> 
> After that, I would totally recommend you go with your GUT instinct.. you can get all the expert opinion you like here or elsewhere though it will count for little if you go along on good faith to one or the other and end up not liking it.. Please tell us how this goes for you as your experience would be very valuable for others with exactly those wondering about how to protect themselves are you are! wishes Jxxx



Thank you Jenna... for your kind words...I will surely share my experience here once I will start the classes. I really like the Gut instinct part, mind over body.


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## crazydiamond (Jun 30, 2015)

Take the Krav class.


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## sun (Jun 30, 2015)

To aedrasteia, jks9199 & Steve.

Yes i'm india. I do understand about precaution. But I didn't point gang rape for being into wild party or college stuff. My concerns are the basics. For example, suppose I got stuck in the office because of workload & return late, will I be safe in the street, bus, cab? I'm pointing on this basic area. When I woke up in the morning & see the news paper full of those rape cases, assaults, my head gets into fire.

To drop bear, learning stick fighting skill will not work here. Cause we can't go out with a stick.


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## sun (Jun 30, 2015)

aedrasteia said:


> Hi Sun glad to have you here and will do my best to be useful. I'm a girl
> (older  :->) with background in judo, aikido and some karate (Shuriryu). I think well of both karate and KMaga, but not for your needs as I understand them. Please feel free to access my previous posts so you will have a better idea of my POV.
> Can you tell us generally where you are and what's brought you to this question?  What's the situation where you are and your special concern w/ gang rape?  A little more information about this will help as we think of what meets your needs.
> w/respect A



Thank you, I will surely check your posts.


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## sun (Jun 30, 2015)

To HANZOU & dcj0524,

Thank you for your input, I will check about Bjj.


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## Dirty Dog (Jun 30, 2015)

sun said:


> To drop bear, learning stick fighting skill will not work here. Cause we can't go out with a stick.



You can use a walking stick, or a cane???


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## Langenschwert (Jun 30, 2015)

Dirty Dog said:


> You can use a walking stick, or a cane???



Or a very solid umbrella. Some are specially reinforced for self-defence use in extremis. They're not cheap, but better than nothing. I wouldn't bet the farm on them though. 

The OP should learn how to use force multipliers regardless. Being completely unarmed against multiple assailants is very, very bad. The first rule of unarmed combat is "arm yourself". I would recommend learning how to use a kubotan. Any small solid hand held object can be used as one in a pinch.

All this depends on local laws regarding what you can carry and use of force, etc. I am not a lawyer.


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## lklawson (Jun 30, 2015)

sun said:


> Hi
> This is my 1st post. Glad to be in this active forum, hope you can help.
> I'm a 25 years old woman. I want to learn how to protect myself. Within my budget, I have two options.
> One year classes of Japanese karate or 3 month course of krav maga.
> ...


Neither will give you skills enough to fight off multiple determined attackers who are, statistically, stronger, larger, and more resistant to pain than a woman.  Sorry to tell you this, but that's just the truth.

Do you live somewhere in which you can legally employ weapons for self defense such as a knife, gun, or a big stick? Yes, I am serious.  Weapons were developed as a "force multiplier" to give someone who is less strong, less skilled unarmed, outnumbered, and out-massed a "equal" chance.  To paraphrase the old saw, "God made man, weapons made man equal."  Think of it like this: The armies of the world don't send their infantry in bare-handed with only Karate training.  There's a reason for that.  Something like Filipino Martial Arts, Bowie Knife, or Silat would be good.

As others have suggested, some sort of grappling would benefit you more than the two you listed.  Brazilian Ju Jitsu, Judo, Shuai Jiao, that sort of thing.

Strength training *WILL NOT* develop "manly" muscles on a woman.  But it will make her stronger and more toned, and will burn fat and calories as well.

Good luck.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## sun (Jul 2, 2015)

lklawson said:


> Neither will give you skills enough to fight off multiple determined attackers who are, statistically, stronger, larger, and more resistant to pain than a woman.  Sorry to tell you this, but that's just the truth.
> 
> Do you live somewhere in which you can legally employ weapons for self defense such as a knife, gun, or a big stick? Yes, I am serious.  Weapons were developed as a "force multiplier" to give someone who is less strong, less skilled unarmed, outnumbered, and out-massed a "equal" chance.  To paraphrase the old saw, "God made man, weapons made man equal."  Think of it like this: The armies of the world don't send their infantry in bare-handed with only Karate training.  There's a reason for that.  Something like Filipino Martial Arts, Bowie Knife, or Silat would be good.
> 
> ...



Thank you for the detail insight. Carrying small knife is allowed here.  I got your point. You are absolutely right. Hope a knife will also give me a chance to fight against an attacker who is also carrying gun. 



Langenschwert said:


> Or a very solid umbrella. Some are specially reinforced for self-defence use in extremis. They're not cheap, but better than nothing. I wouldn't bet the farm on them though.
> 
> The OP should learn how to use force multipliers regardless. Being completely unarmed against multiple assailants is very, very bad. The first rule of unarmed combat is "arm yourself". I would recommend learning how to use a kubotan. Any small solid hand held object can be used as one in a pinch.
> 
> All this depends on local laws regarding what you can carry and use of force, etc. I am not a lawyer.



Didn't know about Kubotan. Thanks for sharing the information.


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## drop bear (Jul 2, 2015)

sun said:


> To aedrasteia, jks9199 & Steve.
> 
> Yes i'm india. I do understand about precaution. But I didn't point gang rape for being into wild party or college stuff. My concerns are the basics. For example, suppose I got stuck in the office because of workload & return late, will I be safe in the street, bus, cab? I'm pointing on this basic area. When I woke up in the morning & see the news paper full of those rape cases, assaults, my head gets into fire.
> 
> To drop bear, learning stick fighting skill will not work here. Cause we can't go out with a stick.



Do you have a basic understanding of how to avoid an ambush? Do you know how these people set up these rapes locally? Where they will get you? How they set them up?

And what sort of karate? 
Depends on the school. They can fight harder than krav.


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## drop bear (Jul 2, 2015)

sun said:


> Didn't know about Kubotan. Thanks for sharing the information.



A torch. It is like a kubotan except it also makes light.


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## sun (Jul 3, 2015)

drop bear said:


> Do you have a basic understanding of how to avoid an ambush? Do you know how these people set up these rapes locally? Where they will get you? How they set them up?
> 
> And what sort of karate?
> Depends on the school. They can fight harder than krav.



I have some understanding, news papers helps to know about their crime pattern. But when I walk on the street, I mostly look like a victim. I don't know how to avoid that. Hope learning self defence course will also help in this area.


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## aedrasteia (Jul 3, 2015)

sun said:


> To aedrasteia, jks9199 & Steve.
> 
> Yes i'm india. I do understand about precaution. But I didn't point gang rape for being into wild party or college stuff. My concerns are the basics. For example, suppose I got stuck in the office because of workload & return late, will I be safe in the street, bus, cab? I'm pointing on this basic area. When I woke up in the morning & see the news paper full of those rape cases, assaults, my head gets into fire.
> 
> To drop bear, learning stick fighting skill will not work here. Cause we can't go out with a stick.



Dear Sun - I think of you as my sister, living far away. Please know that I want to amend my suggestions about my previous posts - your situation in India is different and I understand a little about those differences. I am learning more by talking to Indian women/girls who are living here and going to school in America and by reading what Indian women are posting/blogging.  They are the experts and I am listening to them first, before i have any comments or suggestions

"*When I woke up in the morning & see the news paper full of those rape cases, assaults, my head gets into fire."
*
This I understand - my head gets into fire also. 
w/respect, A


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## lklawson (Jul 3, 2015)

sun said:


> Thank you for the detail insight. Carrying small knife is allowed here.  I got your point. You are absolutely right. Hope a knife will also give me a chance to fight against an attacker who is also carrying gun.


Better than attempting to do so completely unarmed, anyway.

You are right, however, that a firearm is at to top of the personal weapons totem pole.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk (mobile)


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## Langenschwert (Jul 3, 2015)

drop bear said:


> Do you have a basic understanding of how to avoid an ambush? Do you know how these people set up these rapes locally? Where they will get you? How they set them up?



Good point. It's important to understand how predators think and operate. If they think you'll be too much trouble, they'll pick another victim.


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