# Chang San Feng myth?



## Taiji fan (May 4, 2003)

It seems prevelant in most Taiji publications and writtings to still attribute the founding of Taijiquan to Chang San Feng....even though this has been long discredited.  It seems to have been an elaboration by the Yangs, to give a slightly more grand heritage to taijiquan that simply Chen village, unfortunately writings by the Yangs made it out to Hong Kong and the rest of the world containing this information, just before China closed its doors and as such it is still widely accepted in the Western world.  Even well known historical taiji writers in the UK are supporting the myth.


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## yilisifu (May 4, 2003)

Unfortunately, creditting the origination of various martial arts (and other things) is very common in China as well as the rest of Asia.  It was (and still is) felt that this gave a "new" method some measure of credibility and a link to "tradition" somehow.

     It is recorded that in 1407 Emperor Chen-Tze sent out two officials to locate Chang but they returned empty-handed.  The emperor then ordered that a temple be built in his honor.
   In 1457 the emperor bestowed the title of "immortal" on Chang, thus adding to his myth.

   The fact is that there is no real concrete evidence to indicate that such a person ever existed.  There WERE many martial arts devised very long ago which used postures with names very similar to those used in Taiji and with very similar principles.
   But the original version was, as far as any research is concerned, developed in Chen Village.


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## Taiji fan (May 4, 2003)

Just about every book I have picked up seems to still portray Chang San Feng as the godfather of taiji...makes it difficult to get to the correct information and keeps the myth going.....everyone seems to take it as standard and it does make me wonder why people are just regurgitating the same information and what value their writings have ...if any....is it because they do not wish to aknowledge Chen style as the founder, does it help get students into to the flakey exercise classes? or are they just oblivious..... I don't know.


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## yilisifu (May 4, 2003)

They probably do it just because it's the "traditional" story and as we all know, TRADITION is vital element in Chinese society.  Even many modern-day Chinese, who no doubt have read the research about Chang and his myth, still refer to him as Taiji's founder.

   Why?  To put it in the words of the immortal Zero Mostel in "Fiddler on the Roof".....TRADITION!


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## Taiji fan (May 4, 2003)

:rofl: no wonder we are all confused.....part of the great Chinese....don't tell them anything....lark too no doubt.  I wonder what the Chens think of it all.....takes away a bit of the Kudos from them ...no?


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## yilisifu (May 4, 2003)

I don't know....they seem to be doing very well (especially financially) doing seminars all over...


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## Matt Stone (May 4, 2003)

Chinese Internal Martial Arts "Jokes" - 

Chang San Feng created Taijiquan

Xingyi, Taiji and Bagua came from Shaolin

There is such thing as "internal" martial arts and "external" martial arts as they are commonly stereotyped

Bagua is based on the I-ching / Book of Changes

Qigong is hard and takes a long time to develop

Chinese martial arts can only be understood or properly performed by Chinese people (often propagated by non-Chinese students, no less!)

Enjoy!

Gambarimasu.
:asian:


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## Taiji fan (May 5, 2003)

> Chinese martial arts can only be understood or properly performed by Chinese people (often propagated by non-Chinese students, no less!)


 what you mean western people really can do them too.....:rofl:


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## Larry (Jul 2, 2003)

My teacher--now 83 and originally from Shandong Province--claims that taiji was actually invented by Yang Lu Chan from a number of precursers. He said the Yang and Chen families were close friends with each other--both families belonging to the merchant class-- and that the Chen family originally practiced Shandong Black Tiger Shaolinquan. Because anything "new" in China at that time was very much looked down on and only something with an "ancient heritage" was believed to have any credibility, Yang--according to my teacher-- made the claim that he "stole" his taiji while working as a servant for the Chen family which had kept taiji a family secret for many generations. Because the Chens and the Yangs were such good friends, the Chen family didn't contradict Yang Lu Chan because to do so would have been to cause the entire Yang family to lose face. So the Chen family just stayed quiet about it, according to my teacher.

Then after the Communists took over when taiji started to become internationally popular, the Communists--wanting to further enhance the popularity of taiji among the foreigners--came into Chen Village and told the Chen family they were actually practicing Chen taiji. At first the Chen family went along with it not wanting to get in trouble with the Communists, but later, when they discovered all of the benefits of being credited as the "original family" behind this internationally acclaimed exercise and martial art, they embraced the revision of history.

Is it true? Who am I to say? I'm just an American round eye. I certainly wasn't there at the time and have no way to reliably check it out myself.

But my taiji teacher is of the generation of Cheng Man-Ching and knew Cheng directly. His teacher was a direct student of  Yang Ben Hou. He's friends with Madame Sun in Beijing. 

So if my taiji teacher is b.s.ing me, he's at least doing so in a very connected way!   

.


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## CrushingFist (Jul 3, 2003)

Everytime I come along CMA it has a lot of myths and legends, but it doesnt mean  is 100% true or false... Just a myth, i wonder why they mean by myth


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