# Move YOUR Money



## Jenna (Oct 26, 2011)

If you have no banking concerns then I think this is not so interesting for you.  Else, perhaps someone might find something useful here.  Choices and alternatives are good I think.

http://moveyourmoneyproject.org/watch-video


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## Steve (Oct 26, 2011)

I don't have any money in any banks.  I bank with two credit unions: USAA and Verity Credit Union.   They are both AWESOME.  I pay zero fees.  In fact, my Verity checking account reimburses me up to $20 per month for fees that a bank might charge for using its ATM.

There are alternatives to Chase and Bank of America, and switching is really easy to do.  Takes a couple of hours of your time. 

Not all credit unions are built the same, but I promise everyone here that if you switch to a decent, local credit union or USAA if you're a vet, you will not regret it for a second.


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## Jenna (Oct 26, 2011)

stevebjj said:


> I don't have any money in any banks.  I bank with two credit unions: USAA and Verity Credit Union.   They are both AWESOME.  I pay zero fees.  In fact, my Verity checking account reimburses me up to $20 per month for fees that a bank might charge for using its ATM.
> 
> There are alternatives to Chase and Bank of America, and switching is really easy to do.  Takes a couple of hours of your time.
> 
> Not all credit unions are built the same, but I promise everyone here that if you switch to a decent, local credit union or USAA if you're a vet, you will not regret it for a second.


I believe that is prudent Steve.  I did the same.  I find the dividend I receive in return with my local CU is almost FOUR times as much as I was receiving from the monsterbank I had been with for years.


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## granfire (Oct 26, 2011)

Ditto on the Credit Union. Never had a bad dealings with them.
I feel sorry for those folks who are with banks. I am sure there are a few good ones, but so many who are really just on this side of crooked.


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## MaxiMe (Oct 26, 2011)

stevebjj said:


> I don't have any money in any banks. I bank with two credit unions: USAA and Verity Credit Union. They are both AWESOME. I pay zero fees. In fact, my Verity checking account reimburses me up to $20 per month for fees that a bank might charge for using its ATM.
> 
> There are alternatives to Chase and Bank of America, and switching is really easy to do. Takes a couple of hours of your time.
> 
> Not all credit unions are built the same, but I promise everyone here that if you switch to a decent, local credit union or USAA if you're a vet, you will not regret it for a second.


Steve, I've heard rumors that USAA may start implementing some fee's. Have to check with the "BOSS", I think she told me that, we have USAA as well.


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## Bill Mattocks (Oct 26, 2011)

I love credit unions, but guess what?

http://www.bankruptcylawnetwork.com...-credit-union-account-when-i-file-bankruptcy/



> If you are a credit union member, and you tell your credit union that you plan to file bankruptcy, the credit union will anticipate that they will be taking a loss and will generally deny you all further banking privileges including direct deposit, ATM privileges, electronic bill paying, and *can even freeze and seize money from your account to cover any possible loss*.



And by the way, THEY DO.  I know.  And it doesn't matter if you TELL them, they are served the same as everybody else involved in a bk proceeding.  The bk attorney will advise you, if you have a CU account, close it before filing or you are SO hosed.  And if you ignore that advice, yes, you're hosed.

So, no, as much as I *liked* my credit union, screw that noise.


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## Bill Mattocks (Oct 26, 2011)

stevebjj said:


> Not all credit unions are built the same, but I promise everyone here that if you switch to a decent, local credit union or USAA if you're a vet, you will not regret it for a second.



Unless you file Chapter 7 or 13 bankruptcy, in which case, they will close your account and seize any and all funds to cover 'possible losses' to the CU, even if you owe them nothing.  It's legal, and yeah, they do it.


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## Steve (Oct 26, 2011)

MaxiMe said:


> Steve, I've heard rumors that USAA may start implementing some fee's. Have to check with the "BOSS", I think she told me that, we have USAA as well.


I don't know about this.  USAA is big.  We bank primarily with Verity.  Beyond the requisite overdraft fees, they are pretty much fee free.  No ATM fees for using any ATM machine from them, and they reimburse fees charged by other banks or credit unions (up to like $20/mo).  They pay interest on both checking and savings accounts.  They have great rates on loans.  And they're non-profit.

@Bill, I don't plan to file for bankruptcy, but that's interesting information.  I'll NEVER go to a bank again.  Fee after fee after fee all for the privilege of gaining access to MY money.  The way some people feel about taxes here, I feel like THAT about banks.


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## Bill Mattocks (Oct 26, 2011)

stevebjj said:


> @Bill, I don't plan to file for bankruptcy, but that's interesting information.  I'll NEVER go to a bank again.  Fee after fee after fee all for the privilege of gaining access to MY money.  The way some people feel about taxes here, I feel like THAT about banks.



I'm a huge fan of CU's, and we had a CU and a bank.  Now we have a bank.  I wish it was different, but CU's are organized under different laws.  I had no idea about bk law with CU's either; it came as a shock.  Funny thing is how many of my friends insist _"no dude, that's not true."_  hahaha yeah ok, how about you refund me the money they took then.


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## Flying Crane (Oct 26, 2011)

Bill Mattocks said:


> I love credit unions, but guess what?
> 
> http://www.bankruptcylawnetwork.com...-credit-union-account-when-i-file-bankruptcy/
> 
> ...



I am finding this hard to believe.  I happen to work in the financial industry, and my group handles issues such as customer asset seizures for delinquent Child Support, Tax, civil suit writs of execution, various court orders, etc.  So we are freezing client assets all the time, due to these particular issues.  While we don't deal with bankruptcy in our group, I know that there must be a solid reason and proper authority in order to seize assets.  Asssets don't get frozen just because someone thinks, "maybe" we "might" be owed someting "at some time in the nebulous future".  That just doesn't fly.


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## Steve (Oct 26, 2011)

Flying Crane said:


> I am finding this hard to believe.  I happen to work in the financial industry, and my group handles issues such as customer asset seizures for delinquent Child Support, Tax, civil suit writs of execution, various court orders, etc.  So we are freezing client assets all the time, due to these particular issues.  While we don't deal with bankruptcy in our group, I know that there must be a solid reason and proper authority in order to seize assets.  Asssets don't get frozen just because someone thinks, "maybe" we "might" be owed someting "at some time in the nebulous future".  That just doesn't fly.


I don't know enough one way or the other, but I'm very interested.

As I said, though, I've been with the CU for decades and will never go back to the banks.  Banks have demonstrated beyond any shadow of a doubt that the entire industry is unscrupulous, dishonest and completely undeserving of the public trust.


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## Flying Crane (Oct 26, 2011)

stevebjj said:


> I don't know enough one way or the other, but I'm very interested.
> 
> As I said, though, I've been with the CU for decades and will never go back to the banks. Banks have demonstrated beyond any shadow of a doubt that the entire industry is unscrupulous, dishonest and completely undeserving of the public trust.



I don't disagree with you, tho so far I've managed to navigate the banking system and avoid all the fees. I've got direct deposit from my employer, and keep a minimum balance in my savings account and that eliminates any monthly fees that my bank would otherwise charge.

as to this Bankruptcy issue with the CUs, the little voices in my head tell me there must be something more to the story. If there really is some regulation or rule somewhere that says CUs can do this, I'd need to see it before I believe it. Unless this was something in the fine print that Bill overlooked, that happened to be unique to his particular CU. I dunno, it just sounds very weird to me and I can't imagine how they could make that stick if they cannot prove they are owed any money. 

Even if they are owed money, the Bankruptcy court needs to make the determination of how the creditors get paid, and in what sequence. So funds will probably be frozen, but the CU or Bank wouldn't just get to keep it. It stays frozen until the Bankruptcy court gives the order to pay the creditors from whatever assets exist, and then that is carried out.

If the CU tried to just keep the money, they would be in violation of the Bankruptcy court's order.  Even if they were owed money, the Court determines who gets paid first, and the CU would need to get in line with everyone else.


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## Bill Mattocks (Oct 26, 2011)

Flying Crane said:


> I am finding this hard to believe.  I happen to work in the financial industry, and my group handles issues such as customer asset seizures for delinquent Child Support, Tax, civil suit writs of execution, various court orders, etc.  So we are freezing client assets all the time, due to these particular issues.  While we don't deal with bankruptcy in our group, I know that there must be a solid reason and proper authority in order to seize assets.  Asssets don't get frozen just because someone thinks, "maybe" we "might" be owed someting "at some time in the nebulous future".  That just doesn't fly.



You'd think so, wouldn't you?  I agree, it's beyond weird.


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## Flying Crane (Oct 26, 2011)

Bill Mattocks said:


> You'd think so, wouldn't you? I agree, it's beyond weird.



are you sure your assets were frozen and simply kept by the CU?  Did they keep it forever?

Are you sure they weren't frozen by the CU due to the bankruptcy filing, and then paid out according to instructions in the bankruptcy court's order?


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## Bill Mattocks (Oct 26, 2011)

Flying Crane said:


> are you sure your assets were frozen and simply kept by the CU?  Did they keep it forever?



Ah, that may be the rub.  Chapter 13 is for five years.  Assets frozen can't be touched for that period of time.  Accounts cannot be closed because of the automatic stay.  But the CU has the legal right to protect their members from loss as I am given to understand.



> Are you sure they weren't frozen by the CU due to the bankruptcy filing, and then paid out according to instructions in the bankruptcy court's order?



That may be the case.  However, five years is a long time to wait for your own money back.  And the letter used the term 'seized'.


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## Carol (Oct 26, 2011)

I've been with a small CU since the early 90s and I am fiercely loyal.  I avoid using ATMs when I can, so I can visit the branches in person.  The tellers and I know each other by first name, may of them wave to me when the see me coming up the hall.   That's hella good account security, when your bank *KNOWS* who you are, just by your face, even if you have a somewhat common name.

They have helped me out of many bad situations.  I have no intention to do my banking anywhere else and will keep that account open even if I move across country (which I'm not planning to do...but you get the picture )


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## Flying Crane (Oct 26, 2011)

Bill Mattocks said:


> Ah, that may be the rub. Chapter 13 is for five years. Assets frozen can't be touched for that period of time. Accounts cannot be closed because of the automatic stay. But the CU has the legal right to protect their members from loss as I am given to understand.
> 
> That may be the case. However, five years is a long time to wait for your own money back. And the letter used the term 'seized'.



ah, OK, this sounds a bit more realistic.  I'm no expert on bankruptcy by a long shot, but it sounds to me like they did what they did in compliance with the court's order.  Any bank, CU, investment house, or other financial institution would be legally obligated to do the same thing.  The key is that it's not something that the CU did on it's own volition and for it's own benefit.  It was done because they were ordered to do so by the court.

While any institution will attempt to protect  itself from loss, they cannot violate the bankruptcy order.  They don't get to just make a grab for assets under bankruptcy, even if they have a claim as a creditor.  They need to comply with the court's order, just like anyone else.


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## Bill Mattocks (Oct 26, 2011)

Flying Crane said:


> ah, OK, this sounds a bit more realistic.  I'm no expert on bankruptcy by a long shot, but it sounds to me like they did what they did in compliance with the court's order.  Any bank, CU, investment house, or other financial institution would be legally obligated to do the same thing.  The key is that it's not something that the CU did on it's own volition and for it's own benefit.  It was done because they were ordered to do so by the court.
> 
> While any institution will attempt to protect  itself from loss, they cannot violate the bankruptcy order.  They don't get to just make a grab for assets under bankruptcy, even if they have a claim as a creditor.  They need to comply with the court's order, just like anyone else.



It's not exactly the same, though.  The BK attorney said keep any checking account open; if you don't owe them money, they can't close your account or seize your funds.  If you have any CU account, close it before filing; if you leave it open, they freeze and seize.  There are apparently differences in the law regulating banks versus CU's.  I did not believe it.  Well, I learned.  My bank account is still open; they did not react in any way.  CU sent me a letter and that was the end of that.  From what I found out on Google later, nobody who goes through BK gets to keep their CU accounts open; but it's not common knowledge.


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## Flying Crane (Oct 26, 2011)

Bill Mattocks said:


> It's not exactly the same, though. The BK attorney said keep any checking account open; if you don't owe them money, they can't close your account or seize your funds. If you have any CU account, close it before filing; if you leave it open, they freeze and seize. There are apparently differences in the law regulating banks versus CU's. I did not believe it. Well, I learned. My bank account is still open; they did not react in any way. CU sent me a letter and that was the end of that. From what I found out on Google later, nobody who goes through BK gets to keep their CU accounts open; but it's not common knowledge.



I guess this is new to me and is counter to any experience that I've had so far.  If there is a different regulation for a CU that gives them some ability to do this that other institutions do not have, I'd like to see it in writing.


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## Bill Mattocks (Oct 26, 2011)

Flying Crane said:


> I guess this is new to me and is counter to any experience that I've had so far.  If there is a different regulation for a CU that gives them some ability to do this that other institutions do not have, I'd like to see it in writing.



Sorry I don't have any way of proving that to you.  But I'm sure any BK attorney could explain.  I can't say I grasped the entire thing when it was explained to me.  But I know what happened, just as predicted.  And fast, within days we got the letter.


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## elder999 (Oct 26, 2011)

I like my bank. I also like credit unions, but LANB is a pretty good institution for a community bank-in fact, we own a pretty fair hunk of stock in it.


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## clfsean (Oct 27, 2011)

Love my CU... hate my old mega bank.

I've moved my parents to my CU & another local one & away from banks. 

Like has already been posted, both CU's offer... no fees, no ATM fees with a NCUA ATM, refunded ATM fees up to... $15 or $20 a month... free everything. Obviously if you're an idiot & overdraft or the like, you will incur fees. But to hold my money for me, give me instant access 24/7 & earn a little interest on the side, I love my CU.

Never will a big bank hold my money again.


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## Jenna (Nov 1, 2011)

And so the BIG banks continue being BIG banks at the expense of the community banks.  I guess this is "good" commerce (if not good PR) ...



> Mega-bank Goldman Sachs (assets $933bn), has declared war on one of the smallest banks in New York (assets $30m)



http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2011/oct/27/goldman-sachs-occupy-wall-street


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