# Transfer student RANT!



## IcemanSK (Sep 14, 2009)

I'm sorry but I gotta get this situation off of my chest. I know this will probably be familiar to many instructors.

Today I get a mom & young boy ask about classes. The boy is 8, & until last week he was a student at another school in town. He trained for 3 years there. The boy says little to nothing while the mom explains that the other school is too expensive & she wants him to start with me. 

Near as I could figure the boy was a 2nd gup. But he showed none of the disciplines signs of a child who had spent 3 years in a dojang. He said he only remembers his 1st two forms (although he's been taught 7 forms & was days away from testing!) In short, it appears that he has knowledge (of some kind) but he doesn't seem to care at all about the class. Mom is the driving force here.

I had an 8 year old BB from the same school in the past. His discipline was excellent, while his technique lacked. THAT, was easier to deal with because I can teach technique to a student who wants to be there.

In two days the kid & mom are coming back so I can evaluate him. For me, attitude & willingness to try are big keys for me. I'd have a hard time keeping this kid at his present rank with his attitude. I work hard to keep my students reaching for their best effort. I'd have a hard time bringing in a kid who is younger, higher ranked than any of them & who doesn't want to be there. 

Any advice on how to handle this? Am I over looking something? A positive spin, perhaps?

Thanks!


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## Stac3y (Sep 15, 2009)

I'd do the eval before deciding the kid has a lousy attitude. He may have just been having a bad day, or mom may be so overbearing that he was afraid to participate in the conversation. Perhaps distract the mom so you can work with the child without her influence? He might surprise you.


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## Tez3 (Sep 15, 2009)

We made it a policy to keep all incoming cildren at the grade they come in with as we have a fairly big turnover in children whose parents are posted in and out, we thought it fair but sometimes it's hard to not say anything when a high grade comes in not knowing as much as they should. We can usually excuse it to everyone as them being a different style but it is exasperating. The problem too is that when they move on their next club/school may well think it's us!
I was thinking too perhaps the mother is holding the child back, the children we have are used to moving schools, homes, activities and even countries so tend to be fairly confident, it may be that this child didn't want to leave his friends and instructors, children never understand parent's needs for a more affordable alternative. it may be quite terrifying for the child who is young to have to move to another place and his imagination may be running riot as to whether he's going to have to fight hard, be beaten up or whatever his friends at his old training place may have told him hence his reluctance to 'perform'.


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## bluekey88 (Sep 15, 2009)

Just remmeber the kid is only 8. That's not veyr old. I think Tez and Stacey ade some good points...he may not want to leave his old school or he may be very nervous/shy 1:1 with the head instructor at a new school with unfamiliar rituals and routines.

Have them come back. give Mom a mess load of paper wrok to fill out. While she is doign that, get him on the mat, maybe with a few peers (some kids who are friendly and won't give him too hard a time) and see how he does.  This will get the Mom variable out of the picutre (at least temporarily). 

if he's just not up to snuff, you'll probably have to let him keep his rank, just not promote him until he is up to your 2nd gup standards. It's not the kids fault if Mom is driven and he's shy or that he wasn't held accountable ofr good technique/discipline. He's 8.

Peace,
Erik


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## Xue Sheng (Sep 15, 2009)

IcemanSK said:


> I had an 8 year old BB


 
:xtrmshock Seriously... he's 8 years old and a blackbelt  how does that happen 

OK, nothing against the kids and I am glad to see they are in MA but an 8 year old black belt 

Admittedly I am old but back when I trained Jujitsu they wouldn't let a person under 18 have a black belt and I was rather young at the time and that was the rule and I had no problem with it. And although I think a person under 18 should be allowed to have a black belt say 15 or 16, but 8... come on.


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## Tez3 (Sep 15, 2009)

We don't grade anyone to blackbelt until they are at least 18, thank goodness though we haven't had a blackbelt under that come in...yet! I'm not sure how we'd deal with it, it would be a shame to take it off them but then again we don't do child blackbelts, I'm hoping the occasion doesn't arise quite honestly. I'd be gobsmacked frankly though if we got a child who had a 2nd Dan in, that's higher than me still I could always retire and let them take the class lol!


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## ynnad (Sep 15, 2009)

I wonder if a rank of Black Belt Recommended would be a good policy? You offer them a black belt with a white stripe down the middle so, they still feel they are recognized at the black belt level and they stay there until they are ready to test for your black belt. The fact is, he is a black belt from some school. From the consumer perspective whether you think it is legitimate is irrelevant. Just like someone who has a Bachelors degree from a local community college could use that to enter a Masters program at Harvard if Harvard wanted the student.


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## Xue Sheng (Sep 15, 2009)

ynnad said:


> I wonder if a rank of Black Belt Recommended would be a good policy? You offer them a black belt with a white stripe down the middle so, they still feel they are recognized at the black belt level and they stay there until they are ready to test for your black belt. The fact is, he is a black belt from some school. From the consumer perspective whether you think it is legitimate is irrelevant. Just like someone who has a Bachelors degree from a local community college could use that to enter a Masters program at Harvard if Harvard wanted the student.


Not the same thing. If you have a Bachelors from a local community college you need to have a certain level of academic skill to get into Harvard and if you do you can get accepted after you are evaluated by Harvard

It is the same however if you take an 8 year old child and do not evaluate him the same as a 21 year old for the purposes of a BS degree and tell him he is a college graduate and then goes to Harvard

You see a Black belt to me means that the holder of that belt can perform to a certain level with all others of that level and I am sorry but I don't care how skill the 8 year old might be he cannot perform to the same level as a 21 year old black belt. 

Don't get me wrong I am all for kids getting into MA but this whole 8 year old black belt thing has me a bit concerned. And awarding a black belt should have absolutely nothing to due with "from the consumers perspective" if it does then it is simply sales nothing more and the belt is worth about nine bucks and the child has been short changed.


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## KELLYG (Sep 15, 2009)

Iceman,
I think that a generic belt that shows that the student has some experience is necessary. I think that if a student moves from one school to another there should be a period of time where he/she has to prove their current rank.   I also feel that if you let a student that has a inferior skill set maintain a rank that he is not worthy of then it will cause problems down the road.  Your current colored belts may look to the new black belt)  student as something to aspire toward and your current black belt's may allow themselves to dumb down because they can.  If he is indeed being overshadowed by this mother and preforms well in class he can be bumped up in rank.


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## Flying Crane (Sep 15, 2009)

IcemanSK said:


> The boy says little to nothing while the mom explains that the other school is too expensive & she wants him to start with me.


 
quote a price to the mom at $1.00 per month less than what she was paying at the other place.



> I'd have a hard time bringing in a kid who is younger, higher ranked than any of them & who doesn't want to be there.


 
the kid doesn't want to be there.  Tell the mom that there is no room for him in your school, if HE doesn't want to be there.  Send 'em packing. 



> Any advice on how to handle this? Am I over looking something? A positive spin, perhaps?
> 
> Thanks!


 
Sorry, I just can't find any positive spin here.  the MA are NOT for everyone.  Sounds to me like this mom is looking for daycare, or for someone else to raise her kid.  If it was me, I'd decline.


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## bekkilyn (Sep 15, 2009)

This would be a change in policy, but what about starting all newcomers with your school's white belt, but then could add some sort of colored stripe or decal to the belt to represent whatever color they had from their previous school?


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## Dirty Dog (Sep 16, 2009)

What about just testing him and belting him for the level at which he performs? It would require a bit of your time, but seems fair enough.


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## harlan (Sep 16, 2009)

You are teaching martial arts to...kids. 8 year olds want to have fun. Sounds like you are not a lot of fun. But maybe that's what issue-oriented mom wants. 

I feel bad for the kid. Maybe he should play baseball, and mom should take a pill.


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## ynnad (Sep 16, 2009)

Xue Sheng said:


> And awarding a black belt should have absolutely nothing to due with "from the consumers perspective" if it does then it is simply sales nothing more and the belt is worth about nine bucks and the child has been short changed.



I didn't say awarding a black belt should be from a consumer's perspective. My point is that from this consumer's perspective, her child has a black belt. 

Now, you either accept that and work toward bringing this child up to your standards. Or, you set the standards the way you see it and require compliance. 

My point with the community college and Harvard analogy is exactly what you said. There is a minimum accrediting standard. The student could attend Harvard, if Harvard wanted them. Harvard has higher standards than the minimum. Now, Harvard has their own standards and reject people all the time. The question is, does your academy have people lined up to attend like Harvard, or, are you willing to lower your standards to get the student?


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## terryl965 (Sep 16, 2009)

Iceman all you can do is tell her the truth and let the chips hit as they do. We are not the savoir for every single person. I just recently like in the last week sent 8 students packing because it was not in there best interest to be here. They did not like it and mom and dad needed a way out without looking bad so I help evryone one by sitting them down with the parents and saying do you like it? NO Are you enjoying yourself NO, well since you are not having a good time it maybe best for them to try something they love and we parterd ways happy and maybe one day they may come back into the MA's simple because it was not forced on them.


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## celtic_crippler (Sep 16, 2009)

Ugh... I'm glad I don't have the headaches of a "commercial" school. 

I do not envy your situation. Good luck!


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## IcemanSK (Sep 16, 2009)

terryl965 said:


> Iceman all you can do is tell her the truth and let the chips hit as they do. We are not the savoir for every single person. I just recently like in the last week sent 8 students packing because it was not in there best interest to be here. They did not like it and mom and dad needed a way out without looking bad so I help evryone one by sitting them down with the parents and saying do you like it? NO Are you enjoying yourself NO, well since you are not having a good time it maybe best for them to try something they love and we parterd ways happy and maybe one day they may come back into the MA's simple because it was not forced on them.


 

Well, this really is the issue, isn't it?

Tonight I'm going to evaluate where he is at & whether or not he really WANTS to be in TKD. Teaching students who want to learn is the reason I do this, rather than money. 

And, in reality, it does the kid no good if he doesn't want to be there & I set the bar even higher than his old school.

Thanks all. I'll let you know what happens tonight.


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## IcemanSK (Sep 16, 2009)

Well, I evaluated him tonight. He told me that the white & yellow stripe on his belt meant that he knew his first two forms. Since he was a red belt, I'm convinced his old master is trying to turn off every kid to TKD in our valley by charging way too much & not teaching them anything.

He had a lot of snap in his techniques during his forms, but his attention span & class discipline were not good. The boy I had previously from that school showed respect to a fault. This boy has developmental &/or behavior issues.

After a talk with mom & him, he will come into my class as a yellow belt. He agreed that he will follow the rules at my school. He had brought a friend who has never trained before. So, I have two new students & everyone is happy.


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## Carol (Sep 17, 2009)

IcemanSK said:


> Well, I evaluated him tonight. He told me that the white & yellow stripe on his belt meant that he knew his first two forms. Since he was a red belt, I'm convinced his old master is trying to turn off every kid to TKD in our valley by charging way too much & not teaching them anything.
> 
> He had a lot of snap in his techniques during his forms, but his attention span & class discipline were not good. The boy I had previously from that school showed respect to a fault. This boy has developmental &/or behavior issues.
> 
> After a talk with mom & him, he will come into my class as a yellow belt. He agreed that he will follow the rules at my school. He had brought a friend who has never trained before. So, I have two new students & everyone is happy.



Wow.  That's a nice ending!  I hope they both enjoy their training


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## bluekey88 (Sep 17, 2009)

Excellent news!  Good luck with your new students may they learn much from you and you from them 

Peace,
Erik


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## Lynne (Sep 17, 2009)

That sounds great! 

Parents sure can be detrimental.  I've heard and seen mothers in action  in the ladies locker room.  I won't go into the details but parents are often at the root of a child's low self-esteem or what may seem like apathy.


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## ATC (Sep 17, 2009)

Wow!!! Good for you. 2nd Kup to 8th kup and no complaining is great. Glad it all worked out.​


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## IcemanSK (Sep 17, 2009)

ATC said:


> Wow!!! Good for you. 2nd Kup to 8th kup and no complaining is great. Glad it all worked out.​


 

Actually with the change in schools he went from 1st gup in his school to 8th gup in mine. Mom is happy & the kid seems so, too.


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