# United States Taekwondo Committee - What it is about



## miguksaram (Nov 18, 2008)

Got this info sent to me today:

UNITED STATES TAEKWONDO COMMITTEE
INFORMATION SHEET

The following information is provided primarily to Dojang Owners who are seeking information about the United States Taekwondo Committee in an effort to help them to decide whether to join our organization or not.

The United States Taekwondo Committee (USTC) was formed on August 11, 2007 with the purpose of spreading the development and growth of the Martial Arts aspects of Taekwondo. We seek to promote the non-Olympic sport aspect of Taekwondo. To that end, the USTC hosted an International Hanmadang Referee Certification Course in February 2008 that was attended by 230 Masters and Grand Masters. The USTC then hosted the 2008 World Hanmadang in July 2008 in Los Angeles, CA, marking just the first time that the World Hanmadang was held outside of Korea. USTC is hosting a Kukkiwon International Poomsae Seminar in Dallas, TX on December 6-7, 2008, followed by another International Hanmadang Referee Certification and Refresher Course that will be held in April 2009 in Chicago, IL. Also, the USTC will be hosting the first United States National Hanmadang in June 2009 in Chicago, IL. All of this from such a young, fledgling organization, and with more to come!

An organization that exists primarily to stress the Martial Arts aspects of Taekwondo should appeal to all Dojang owners because, as you well know, only two (2) percent of your students are motivated to become Olympic Taekwondo athlete. The other 98% of your students practice Taekwondo for reasons other than making the Olympic team. Those reasons may include the following: Discipline, Self-Defense, Health Improvement, Self-Control, etc. All Taekwondo dojangs approach the study of Taekwondo by teaching a variety of kicks and punches, self-defense techniques, Poomsae (forms), and perhaps sparring techniques. Students young and old practice these activities daily in Taekwondo dojangs around the world. That is why we currently number over 70 million Taekwondo practitioners worldwide. So, ask yourselves- What is the chance of one of my students making an Olympic Taekwondo Team? The Olympics currently consists of only 128 athletes in total, male and female.
What chance does my student have of making it to a Taekwondo World Championship? The Taekwondo World Championship consists of national teams that can consist of no more than 8 male and 8 female athletes from each participating country. What about the other millions of Taekwondo practitioners around the world? What is there for them, as far as International or World competitions?

The fact is that the World Taekwondo Federation (WTF) is the international Governing Body for the Olympic Sport of Taekwondo. Presently, only Olympic Sparring is an Olympic event. Poomsae is not an Olympic Sport event. Additionally, USA Taekwondo is the National Governing Body for the Olympic sport of Taekwondo in America. Their charter is to select a team representing the USA that will compete at WTF events such a World Cup, World Championships, Pan Am Games, and the Olympic Games. So, the pecking order is as follows: The International Olympic Committee (IOC) is the world governing body for all Olympic sports. They recognize one international sports body for each sport. That internationally recognized body for Taekwondo is the World Taekwondo Federation (WTF). The WTF, in turn, recognizes one national governing body (NGB) in each of its member countries. In the USA that NGB is USA Taekwondo.

Kukkiwon is the World Taekwondo Headquarters and is located in Seoul, Korea, as is the World Taekwondo Federation. Kukkiwon is charged with developing and promoting the Martial Art of Taekwondo globally. The martial art aspect of Taekwondo includes all areas that are not under the auspices of the Olympic Sport of Taekwondo- Poomsae, Breaking, Self-Defense, etc. These are the same aspects that the other 98% of Dojang students practice and in which they excel. Kukkiwon is also the International Body responsible for Dan Promotions and the licensing of Taekwondo Instructors. As you may see, Kukkiwon has a totally different responsibility and mission to promote Taekwondo globally. Sometimes, the WTF and Kukkiwon act cooperatively. For example, participants at WTF events must have Dan Certification from Kukkiwon.

The United States Taekwondo Committee is set up as a corollary organization to USA Taekwondo, only it is under the auspices of Kukkiwon. We follow closely the Kukkiwon mission of promoting the Martial Arts aspects of Taekwondo in the United States of America. We are not in competition with USA Taekwondo. We make no attempts to field a team of athletes to compete in Olympic competition. Rather, we promote participation of Taekwondo students young and old in the Taekwondo Hanmadangs. 

A Hanmadang is simply a Taekwondo Festival. Hanmadangs include performances in High Kicks, Speed Kicks with breaking, Power Breaks, Poomsae performed solo, in pairs, and in teams. We also have Creative Poomsae divisions that include extreme weapons. There are also divisions for family members to perform as a team. Self-Defense divisions include individual and team performances as well. So, all of this represents directly what every Dojang owner already teaches in his/her school. All of this celebrates the martial arts aspects of Taekwondo and is attractive to the whole family.

Here is a diagram that shows the relationship between WTF and USAT, and between Kukkiwon and USTC:

       WTF                            KUKKIWON
          '                                   '
USA Taekwondo    United States Taekwondo Committee

From this diagram, you should be able to tell that we are separate organizations with distinct different paths to follow.

We suggest that all Dojang owners consider participating with the United States Taekwondo Committee for the large percentage of your students who may not be interested in trying to make an Olympic team.


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## igillman (Nov 18, 2008)

A quick search shows that it is the new name for the United States Tae Kwon Do Federation (USTF)...
http://www.ustaekwondofederation.com


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## mango.man (Nov 18, 2008)

igillman said:


> A quick search shows that it is the new name for the United States Tae Kwon Do Federation (USTF)...
> http://www.ustaekwondofederation.com



 Operated by Sang Lee, former head of the USTU which was the NGB before USAT was established and Sang and many others were unceremoniously told to not let the door hit them in the a$$ on the way out.


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## miguksaram (Nov 18, 2008)

igillman said:


> A quick search shows that it is the new name for the United States Tae Kwon Do Federation (USTF)...
> http://www.ustaekwondofederation.com


Just to explain a bit further.  When they first began this group, they called themselves the United States Taekwondo Federation prior to knowing that there was already an organization with that name.  So after the Hanmadang they made the changes to United States Taekwondo Committee.  They are in no way shape or form related to the USTF that I believe is ran by GM Chuck Sherref.


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## Kacey (Nov 19, 2008)

miguksaram said:


> Just to explain a bit further.  When they first began this group, they called themselves the United States Taekwondo Federation prior to knowing that there was already an organization with that name.  So after the Hanmadang they made the changes to United States Taekwondo Committee.  They are in no way shape or form related to the USTF that I believe is ran by GM Chuck Sherref.



Correct - and how they could miss that I'm not sure; it was founded in 1973.  GM Sereff's USTF site can be found here.


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## miguksaram (Nov 20, 2008)

Kacey said:


> Correct - and how they could miss that I'm not sure; it was founded in 1973. GM Sereff's USTF site can be found here.


 
They just didn't do thorough research is all.  No one is perfect.


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## terrylamar (Jun 13, 2011)

An old post to be sure, nevertheless I am interested to find out what it's current status is.  They don't seem to update their website very often.  Is it worth being a member of?


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## troubleenuf (Jun 13, 2011)

Along with a WHOLE lot of $$$ that was never accounted for.



mango.man said:


> Operated by Sang Lee, former head of the USTU which was the NGB before USAT was established and Sang and many others were unceremoniously told to not let the door hit them in the a$$ on the way out.


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## puunui (Jun 13, 2011)

troubleenuf said:


> Along with a WHOLE lot of $$$ that was never accounted for.




I would be careful about addressing things without all of the facts.


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## troubleenuf (Jun 13, 2011)

I dont think thats a big secret with anyone.




puunui said:


> I would be careful about addressing things without all of the facts.


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## puunui (Jun 14, 2011)

troubleenuf said:


> I dont think thats a big secret with anyone.



I think what is no big secret is that people like to speak about things that they have no personal knowledge about. I have all the documents from that era sitting in banker's boxes in my garage. How about you?


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## terryl965 (Jun 14, 2011)

Yea but this being America people have a right to say and talk about anything they like, including the old USTU, USAT,AAU or the USTC, USTF or any other org. Come on puunui I know you back alot of the USTU but they was far from perfect, but at the sametime no one is or will ever be. Not saying anything negative just saying people have a right to talk about subjects that others may ne like.


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## troubleenuf (Jun 14, 2011)

How do you get your car in your garage or get in your house for that matter?  If you are to be believed you are an "expert" in everything dealing with past Korean TKD and have literature and books on all of it.  Wow.  And you you are also the only one with any knowledge of any of it.  Sometimes you have some great things to say and I like to read it,  then other times you come off as a completely arrogant sob...  Its obvious you are a devoted "follower" and thats fine for you.  But maybe, just maybe you need to peek out of your safe box and see the real world once in a while.




puunui said:


> I think what is no big secret is that people like to speak about things that they have no personal knowledge about. I have all the documents from that era sitting in banker's boxes in my garage. How about you?


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## tinker1 (Jun 14, 2011)

Bit of a thread jack..

I've met with GM Sang Lee a few times at his Dojang in Monument CO.

Seriously... I have NEVER seen a Dojang like this... it's amazing.. it's a frigging palace!  Huge entry hall.. with a receptionist and MARBLE FLOORS!.. holy cow..  It's a stand alone building near Walmart (excellent business location).. with maybe 8000+ square feet of space.  Huge training floor.  GM Lee has inner and outer offices.. as I said, it's a palace!

The only other Dojang I've seen that even remotely compares is GM Kim's place in Valejo CA.


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## andyjeffries (Jun 14, 2011)

tinker1 said:


> The only other Dojang I've seen that even remotely compares is GM Kim's place in Valejo CA.



What about Master Rondy Chang's White Tiger in Cary, NC?  Seen them?  If the write-ups/pics in TKDT are to be believed, that's a pretty special dojang!


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## puunui (Jun 14, 2011)

tinker1 said:


> The only other Dojang I've seen that even remotely compares is GM Kim's place in Valejo CA.




Have you been to the new dojang on Springs Road? I believe it is 14,000 square feet. He is my direct senior. We went to the same high school. 

But you would be amazed that the dojang now. Many have their own stand alone buildings. It's not like these examples are exceptions to the rule.


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## puunui (Jun 14, 2011)

troubleenuf said:


> How do you get your car in your garage or get in your house for that matter?  If you are to be believed you are an "expert" in everything dealing with past Korean TKD and have literature and books on all of it.  Wow.  And you you are also the only one with any knowledge of any of it.  Sometimes you have some great things to say and I like to read it,  then other times you come off as a completely arrogant sob...  Its obvious you are a devoted "follower" and thats fine for you.  But maybe, just maybe you need to peek out of your safe box and see the real world once in a while.



I'll take that to mean that you have no documents. And I never said that I am the only one. There are lots of people out there who also have the documents.


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## puunui (Jun 14, 2011)

terryl965 said:


> Yea but this being America people have a right to say and talk about anything they like, including the old USTU, USAT,AAU or the USTC, USTF or any other org.



Actually you don't have the right to say and talk about anything you like. You cannot lie under oath for example, or you will be charged with perjury. There are also laws about fraud and misrepresentation, not to mention libel and slander. 




terryl965 said:


> Come on puunui I know you back alot of the USTU but they was far from perfect, but at the sametime no one is or will ever be. Not saying anything negative just saying people have a right to talk about subjects that others may ne like.



Never said it was perfect. But just because it was not perfect does mean that we can or should perpetuate "rumor, speculation, innuendo" and falsehoods. Like I said, I have all the documents, all the financials, and every single written complaint sent to the USTU/USOC. All of this was subject to a lawsuit. It was because of those kinds of falsehoods and unsubstantiated complaints that we now have USAT, which everyone will tell you is ten times, a hundred times, a thousand times worse than what we had before. I would think that people would have learned from that experience. If you wish to continue with the negativity and falsehood, then by all means go ahead, just as long as you or anyone else is willing to accept the consequences of such actions, for yourself and for the future generations of Taekwondoin. Because that is what is at stake.


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## puunui (Jun 14, 2011)

tinker1 said:


> I've met with GM Sang Lee a few times at his Dojang in Monument CO. Seriously... I have NEVER seen a Dojang like this... it's amazing.. it's a frigging palace!  Huge entry hall.. with a receptionist and MARBLE FLOORS!.. holy cow..  It's a stand alone building near Walmart (excellent business location).. with maybe 8000+ square feet of space.  Huge training floor.  GM Lee has inner and outer offices.. as I said, it's a palace!




Some people out there will take your story and say "See, that is evidence that money was stolen!". But the fact of the matter is that President Lee was the subject of an IRS audit and after that was completed, the IRS gave President Lee a $1500 refund because he overpaid on his taxes. These are the kinds of facts that I am talking about, specific direct facts, vs. passing on hearsay conclusions about this or that without a factual basis.


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## mango.man (Jun 14, 2011)

andyjeffries said:


> What about Master Rondy Chang's White Tiger in Cary, NC?  Seen them?  If the write-ups/pics in TKDT are to be believed, that's a pretty special dojang!



Or Master Kwak's AMAA School in Simi Valley CA http://www.amaa-usa.com/simivalley_facility

Or Master Carter's school in Fresno CA http://sunnysidetkd.com/ourdojang.html (Which is the biggest/nicest dojang I have visited)

Seems the large / multi use dojang is becoming more common.


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## terryl965 (Jun 14, 2011)

*


puunui said:



			Actually you don't have the right to say and talk about anything you like. You cannot lie under oath for example, or you will be charged with perjury. There are also laws about fraud and misrepresentation, not to mention libel and slander.
		
Click to expand...

*


puunui said:


> Let look at this for a minute you say you cannot lie under oarth sure you can and some have and not been caught. Sure there are laws but also people have the right to there opinion even if it does not meet your guidelines.
> 
> 
> 
> *Never said it was perfect. But just because it was not perfect does mean that we can or should perpetuate "rumor, speculation, innuendo" and falsehoods. Like I said, I have all the documents, all the financials, and every single written complaint sent to the USTU/USOC. All of this was subject to a lawsuit. It was because of those kinds of falsehoods and unsubstantiated complaints that we now have USAT, which everyone will tell you is ten times, a hundred times, a thousand times worse than what we had before. I would think that people would have learned from that experience. If you wish to continue with the negativity and falsehood, then by all means go ahead, just as long as you or anyone else is willing to accept the consequences of such actions, for yourself and for the future generations of Taekwondoin. Because that is what is at stake.*





I am one of them saying the USTU was alot better than USAT, but that and a nickel will get you nothing so it is irreavent to this converstation. If people opinion was so highly accepted than TKD would have been dead a long long time ago. If anything it is bringing people back together that has been a part for years, so I see the negative as a positive for the TKD community.


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## terryl965 (Jun 14, 2011)

mango.man said:


> Or Master Kwak's AMAA School in Simi Valley CA http://www.amaa-usa.com/simivalley_facility
> 
> Or Master Carter's school in Fresno CA http://sunnysidetkd.com/ourdojang.html (Which is the biggest/nicest dojang I have visited)
> 
> Seems the large / multi use dojang is becoming more common.


 
Yes these are more aftercare and such than martial art schools. I wish I had it like that.


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## puunui (Jun 14, 2011)

terryl965 said:


> I am one of them saying the USTU was alot better than USAT, but that and a nickel will get you nothing so it is irreavent to this converstation. If people opinion was so highly accepted than TKD would have been dead a long long time ago. If anything it is bringing people back together that has been a part for years, so I see the negative as a positive for the TKD community.



I have no problem bringing the community back together. But frankly, Taekwondo has been dead for years now, with the creation of USAT. I am beginning to wonder whether it will ever come back. What I do know is that making false statements about the USTU certainly is not helping. What is gained by making flippant erroneous comments like that? Answer: Nothing. So why do it?


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## puunui (Jun 14, 2011)

terryl965 said:


> Let look at this for a minute you say you cannot lie under oarth sure  you can and some have and not been caught. Sure there are laws but also  people have the right to there opinion even if it does not meet your  guidelines.



Sure, people have a right to their "opinion". But if that opinion has no factual basis, then the person voicing such an opinion should not get angry if they are called on it.


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## tinker1 (Jun 14, 2011)

andyjeffries said:


> What about Master Rondy Chang's White Tiger in Cary, NC?  Seen them?  If the write-ups/pics in TKDT are to be believed, that's a pretty special dojang!



I used to live out in Raleigh NC... but was training at a studio in North Raleigh - TKD plus with Master Julee Peck.

I never saw this studio in Cary.


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## tinker1 (Jun 14, 2011)

puunui said:


> Have you been to the new dojang on Springs Road? I believe it is 14,000 square feet. He is my direct senior. We went to the same high school.
> 
> But you would be amazed that the dojang now. Many have their own stand alone buildings. It's not like these examples are exceptions to the rule.



Master Lee is obviously following a very sound business model.. he's a very successful guy.

I don't know the one on Springs road.. The latest one I've seen is a new one on the corner of Research and Union.


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## tinker1 (Jun 14, 2011)

puunui said:


> Some people out there will take your story and say "See, that is evidence that money was stolen!". But the fact of the matter is that President Lee was the subject of an IRS audit and after that was completed, the IRS gave President Lee a $1500 refund because he overpaid on his taxes. These are the kinds of facts that I am talking about, specific direct facts, vs. passing on hearsay conclusions about this or that without a factual basis.



I never intended to insinuate that - not by any means.  My apologies to all if what I said came across wrong.   

Unless I know something as a fact, I will generally keep my mouth shut.


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## mastercole (Jun 14, 2011)

troubleenuf said:


> How do you get your car in your garage or get in your house for that matter?  If you are to be believed you are an "expert" in everything dealing with past Korean TKD and have literature and books on all of it.  Wow.  And you you are also the only one with any knowledge of any of it.  Sometimes you have some great things to say and I like to read it,  then other times you come off as a completely arrogant sob...  Its obvious you are a devoted "follower" and thats fine for you.  But maybe, just maybe you need to peek out of your safe box and see the real world once in a while.



So you think Puunui sounds like an arrogant sob when he provides you with facts. What do you think you sound like when you provide us with false slander and baseless rumors?

Actually he is not a follower like you stated. He is been a leader, mostly behind the scenes for a long time now. If you were more involved yourself, you might know that.  If you want to talk about followers, I would say anyone who is repeating falsehoods and slander against GM Lee would be a follower, wouldn't you?


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## puunui (Jun 14, 2011)

tinker1 said:


> I never intended to insinuate that - not by any means.  My apologies to all if what I said came across wrong.   Unless I know something as a fact, I will generally keep my mouth shut.



Not like that. I would just saying how people would twist your innocent comment into something sinister, for absolutely no reason at all. Your comments on this particular issue were first person and from personal knowledge, which they generally are. Please keep them coming.


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## terrylamar (Jun 14, 2011)

Interesting, but what does any of this have to do with the United States Taekwondo Committee?


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## puunui (Jun 14, 2011)

terrylamar said:


> Interesting, but what does any of this have to do with the United States Taekwondo Committee?




Both President Lee and GM Kim are key members of the USTC.


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## terrylamar (Jun 14, 2011)

puunui said:


> Both President Lee and GM Kim are key members of the USTC.


 

Who is Grandmaster Kyungwon Ahn?  USTC's website list his bio as on the Executive Committee.

It no longer list Grandmaster Harris.


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## puunui (Jun 14, 2011)

terrylamar said:


> Who is Grandmaster Kyungwon Ahn?  USTC's website list his bio as on the Executive Committee. It no longer list Grandmaster Harris.




GM Ahn was USTU President from 1986-92. He is also Honorary President of the USTC. GM Harris is the USTC Executive Director.


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## terrylamar (Jun 14, 2011)

puunui said:


> GM Ahn was USTU President from 1986-92. He is also Honorary President of the USTC. GM Harris is the USTC Executive Director.


 
After some searching, I was able to find a list of Who's Who of the USTC.


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## terryl965 (Jun 14, 2011)

puunui said:


> Sure, people have a right to their "opinion". But if that opinion has no factual basis, then the person voicing such an opinion should not get angry if they are called on it.


 
I absolutely agree with the above statement.


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## terryl965 (Jun 14, 2011)

puunui said:


> I have no problem bringing the community back together. But frankly, Taekwondo has been dead for years now, with the creation of USAT. I am beginning to wonder whether it will ever come back. What I do know is that making false statements about the USTU certainly is not helping. What is gained by making flippant erroneous comments like that? Answer: Nothing. So why do it?


 
I trend to think of it as doormant than dead, I have never said anything negative about the USTC to my knowledge. I have inquired about it and what everything is about and have had some good converstation with certain people. Right now I am not a member but have been looking into them very closely.


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## Master Dan (Jun 15, 2011)

Kacey said:


> Correct - and how they could miss that I'm not sure; it was founded in 1973. GM Sereff's USTF site can be found here.


 
They were told that in the beging but thier lead council let them do it anyway then tried to threaten everyone to shut up and not use the name worried they would be suied and finally changed it. There was no malice in using it of course it sounded better but copy right is copy reght ask WWF


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## puunui (Jun 15, 2011)

Master Dan said:


> They were told that in the beging but thier lead council let them do it anyway then tried to threaten everyone to shut up and not use the name worried they would be suied and finally changed it. There was no malice in using it of course it sounded better but copy right is copy reght ask WWF



You obviously: a) have no first hand knowledge of what actually happened; and b) have no understanding of the attorney client relationship dynamic, especially when intertwined with the senior junior relationship which exists in Taekwondo. 

An attorney acts as an advisor only; the client always has the final say and can choose to follow the attorney's advice, or not. If they are thinking about not choosing to follow their attorney's advice, then the attorney's job is to inform the client as to the consequences of not following that advice. But the client ALWAYS makes the final decision. Consigliere counsels, but the boss has the last word. If that weren't the case, then the consigliere would be the boss. Who is in charge, Tony Soprano or Silvio Dante? 

The original name of USTC was USATU. Everyone liked this name (which was suggested by me) but at the last minute, immediately prior to the inaugural meeting, it was changed to USTF. In this particular case, USTC was actually given a license to use the  name USTF, by the USTF headed by GM Sereff, something that I bet you did  not know. 

Whenever my seniors ask for me for my advice, I politely tell them what I honestly think, ONCE. They consider my perspective, as well as the perspective of others, and then make their decision. If they do not follow my advice, I do not get angry at my seniors. After all, I was allowed to give my input, a voice as well as a vote, which is more than a lot of people get to do. I'm just glad that I get to be a part of the process and that I am allowed to participate and continue through the policy making levels of the Taekwondo journey.


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## Archtkd (Jun 15, 2011)

miguksaram said:


> The United States Taekwondo Committee (USTC) was formed on August 11, 2007 with the purpose of spreading the development and growth of the Martial Arts aspects of Taekwondo ...
> 
> An organization that exists primarily to stress the Martial Arts aspects of Taekwondo should appeal to all Dojang owners because, as you well know, only two (2) percent of your students are motivated to become Olympic Taekwondo athlete. The other 98% of your students practice Taekwondo for reasons other than making the Olympic team. Those reasons may include the following: Discipline, Self-Defense, Health Improvement, Self-Control, etc. All Taekwondo dojangs approach the study of Taekwondo by teaching a variety of kicks and punches, self-defense techniques, Poomsae (forms), and perhaps sparring techniques. Students young and old practice these activities daily in Taekwondo dojangs around the world. That is why we currently number over 70 million Taekwondo practitioners worldwide. So, ask yourselves-
> 
> ... The United States Taekwondo Committee is set up as a corollary organization to USA Taekwondo, only it is under the auspices of Kukkiwon. We follow closely the Kukkiwon mission of promoting the Martial Arts aspects of Taekwondo in the United States of America. .. We are not in competition with USA Taekwondo.


 
It seems to me the USTC does a lot of the things that GM Duk Gun Kwon's USNTF (United States National Taekwondo Federation) does. I think both organizations could work together if their leaders (both of who I respect) would ever find a way to set their differences aside, particularly because both of them have strong principles of inclusion. In the interest of full disclosure I'm a member of the USNTF and have also benefited from the USTC.


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## miguksaram (Jun 25, 2011)

troubleenuf said:


> Along with a WHOLE lot of $$$ that was never accounted for.


Since you have already stated that it is no big secret, perhaps you can clue me into what $$$ you are referring to.  The last meeting we had they were very transparent about the money that was brought in versus the money that was paid out.  What we saw was that key members of the USTC actually paid expenses out of their own back pockets to help USTC provide the services such as the KKW Instructors' Course.  So please inform me what first hand knowledge you have of the USTC financials that would lead you to believe they are not accounting for.


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## miguksaram (Jun 25, 2011)

Master Dan said:


> They were told that in the beging but thier lead council let them do it anyway then tried to threaten everyone to shut up and not use the name worried they would be suied and finally changed it. There was no malice in using it of course it sounded better but copy right is copy reght ask WWF


Do you honestly have any clue as to what you are talking about here?


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## troubleenuf (Jun 25, 2011)

This was sent to me by someone who does have their garage full of paperwork instead of cars... Wasnt going to post it but since you asked here it is.  This was what led to the USTUs downfall and decertification along with the hierarchy being removed.

The issue was not that the money was missing, but that it was majorly misspent. There was an investment account but it had been cashed out and used to pay bills. At the time the USOC negotiated the remediation plan, the USAT was $1.2M in debt. There were credit cards and phones that were out there racking up charges that were not in the best interests of the organization.

For example - the last JO's held under the USTU saw officers and some grandmasters and invited visitors from PATU countries staying at the Peabody - a very expensive place. There were room service bills at 3 am etc... thousands of dollars, the referees and other non-ranking officials were put in the cheap seats. Credit card statements had things like condoms and teeth cleaning (accidentally used wrong card). During the year or so Mike Weintraub was Executive Director, his office spent $247K - his dry cleaning, i have been told hookers, lunches at the peabody for his friends, and other non-USTU expenses - bought out his retirement etc.... Air freight of medals from Korea to Orlando - about $26,000. Loans to employees - one of which was written of in 2009. Things like this. 

As far as out and out theft, I remember cash receipts bag disappearing from an office after jo's - that was never solved. I was told that the amount of money collected for payment to referees was lighter when it arrived to go into envelopes then before - things like that. They were never able to prove out and out theft - major mismanagement and some more than questionable wire transfers. Cash receipts were accepted at one point for team travels to Korea, but when the travel agency was contacted the actual amount was a lot less.

Then there were the state organizations, all the appointed votes on the BOG (Board of Governors} and on and on - but the Colorado Attorney General and the DA in Colorado Springs never pressed charges on anyone. It would have cost more to pursue than the org had and it was time to move forward. 



miguksaram said:


> Since you have already stated that it is no big secret, perhaps you can clue me into what $$$ you are referring to.  The last meeting we had they were very transparent about the money that was brought in versus the money that was paid out.  What we saw was that key members of the USTC actually paid expenses out of their own back pockets to help USTC provide the services such as the KKW Instructors' Course.  So please inform me what first hand knowledge you have of the USTC financials that would lead you to believe they are not accounting for.


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## miguksaram (Jun 25, 2011)

troubleenuf said:


> This was sent to me by someone who does have their garage full of paperwork instead of cars... Wasnt going to post it but since you asked here it is. This was what led to the USTUs downfall and decertification along with the hierarchy being removed.
> 
> The issue was not that the money was missing, but that it was majorly misspent. There was an investment account but it had been cashed out and used to pay bills. At the time the USOC negotiated the remediation plan, the USAT was $1.2M in debt. There were credit cards and phones that were out there racking up charges that were not in the best interests of the organization.
> 
> ...


OK...that is fine and dandy but what does that have to do with the USTC? USTU and USTC are not the same thing and please do not start with they were ran by the same people. While they share some leadership members, the goals are purposes are entirely different. 

So if the issue is with USTU stem a new thread about it.


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## troubleenuf (Jun 25, 2011)

You should probably read the post first.  The third post in this thread reads as follows "Operated by Sang Lee, former head of the USTU which was the NGB before USAT was established and Sang and many others were unceremoniously told to not let the door hit them in the a$$ on the way out."  My response was to this post and your question was to that post followed by my response to your question... get it?  I also believe it should be remember that some of these people were responsible for what happened with millions of dollars in budget being "mishandled" and $1.2 million more being overspent.  That is not just a few dollars missing and yes I do feel it leads to their credibility.  You might not but I do.



miguksaram said:


> OK...that is fine and dandy but what does that have to do with the USTC? USTU and USTC are not the same thing and please do not start with they were ran by the same people. While they share some leadership members, the goals are purposes are entirely different.
> 
> So if the issue is with USTU stem a new thread about it.


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## puunui (Jun 25, 2011)

troubleenuf said:


> Wasnt going to post it but since you asked here it is.  This was what led to the USTUs downfall and decertification along with the hierarchy being removed. The issue was not that the money was missing, but that it was majorly misspent.



The fact of the matter is the the year before the switch, we got a clean bill of health from both the USOC as well as our auditors. Suddenly, we became an "unstable organization" soon after Jay Warwick left, according to a letter from the USOC, which was the beginning of the campaign against USTU and its Korean born leadership. 

The financial stuff was the excuse but that wasn't the reasons. The real reasons were two fold: 1) USOC had underwent a major reorganization and they wanted all of the NGBs to do the same, which was to switch the NGBs from a volunteer leadership based organization to a staff leadership based one. USTU was the test case, at least according to USOC's plan under Jim Scherr (USOC Executive Director) and Jeff Benz (USOC General Counsel). 2) Jim Scherr wanted to get rid of all of the Koreans, especially President Sang Lee. 

By the way, Jeff Benz was recently brought back as one of the members of the ad hoc committee which suggested by law changes which are part of the grivences filed by several members.

The plan worked, because the organization was changed to staff led (Bob G. and now David Askinas) and most of the Korean borns have left the organization. Their miscalculation was thinking that the American borns would stay, which would keep the organization financially healthy. However, when the Korean born instructors left, they took their students with them, which resulted in an 80% decrease in membership. 

But the more lasting result has been the complete neuterization of both the USOC and USAT in the world community. Since the staff takeover, USOC's input into the IOC has shivelled up, as shown by USOC never having won a host city bid for an Olympics, loss which cost tens, if not hundreds of millions of dollars for the failed attempts. The staff leadership did not have the type of long term relationships that in part make such bids possible. Baseball, America's past time, was eliminated as an Olympic sport during the USOC staff leadership's tenure. That alone should be an indication of how the IOC feels about the US and its staff leadership.

USAT also suffered the same sort of loss of international prestige and power at the WTF level. USAT and its leadership have pretty much no juice at the WTF level, and the little they have come from USTU leaders (Dr. Ken Min for example) and not anything that can be attributed to USAT. David Askinas in particular has managed to alienate the WTF with his poor behavior and antics during WTF events. There is no excuse for yelling and swearing at referees on calls or giving them the finger. Our USTU leadership would never do anything like that.

Also, the USOC under Mr. Scherr and Mr. Benz halted their agenda to get the NGBs in line when it was clear that the NGBs would not put up with such shenanegans. Triathlon threatened to surrender their USOC membership if the USOC forced them to reorganize, and other NGBs expressed the same sentiment. The net result is that only USTU was forced to change, which led to the horrific results we have today. Be careful what you ask for, because you might get it. 

But the people who complained did get their wish, which was to eliminate the Korean born leadership from the equation at USAT. The resulting seven years of American born leadership, I think speaks for itself. No need to go into detail about that, which I believe has already been covered here. 

Most people I know who lived through both eras, USTU and USAT, say that the USTU experience was infinitely better than the USAT experience, that they really don't care if someone mistakenly charged a USTU credit card for condoms or whatever else people complained about, because even with that, the direct effect to the membership was insignificant when compared to the effect of what USAT is doing to the few members that continue to hang on. Put another way, whatever complaints people may have had regarding USTU, multiply it by ten or twenty and that is how people feel about USAT. 

The mistake of the people who wanted the Korean borns out of the organization was assuming that the USOC had USTU's best interest in mind. It is probably the same mistake that the WTF may be making when it assumes the IOC has Taekwondo's and the WTF's best interest in mind during the upcoming vote for the 25 core summer sports.


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## troubleenuf (Jun 25, 2011)

While there can be no doubt that the current situation is by far not what was hoped for it is easy to forget the past and think that it was better then than what we have now.  The arrogance of the Koreans we had to put up with was extreme.  They not only thought they had needed no oversight they actually BELIEVED we didnt deserve to have any say in what went on.  Askins is an idiot.  The USAT has lost all credibility.  No question of it.  But that does not excuse what happened during the USTU days nor the money that was misspent and disappeared.  And it does go to the credibility of those who were responsible for it.   You can put any spin you want on it but when the money that was entrusted to people is spent on hookers and booze they should be held accountable for it.  And it wasnt just a few condoms... it was 1.2 million in debt.  1.2 million.  if that was in just condoms that was one hell of a lot of condoms dont you think?


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## puunui (Jun 25, 2011)

troubleenuf said:


> While there can be no doubt that the current situation is by far not what was hoped for it is easy to forget the past and think that it was better then than what we have now.  The arrogance of the Koreans we had to put up with was extreme.  They not only thought they had needed no oversight they actually BELIEVED we didnt deserve to have any say in what went on.  Askins is an idiot.  The USAT has lost all credibility.  No question of it.  But that does not excuse what happened during the USTU days nor the money that was misspent and disappeared.  And it does go to the credibility of those who were responsible for it.   You can put any spin you want on it but when the money that was entrusted to people is spent on hookers and booze they should be held accountable for it.  And it wasnt just a few condoms... it was 1.2 million in debt.  1.2 million.  if that was in just condoms that was one hell of a lot of condoms donted you think?




Actually, that 1.2 million figure was grossly exaggerated ,and not supported by the documentation. Neither was the $900K figure before that one. But it doesn't really matter at this point. 

I will leave you with these questions: What is your solution? And what are you prepared to do to make your proposed solution a reality? And perhaps most important, who will assist you in making your proposed solution a reality?


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## miguksaram (Jun 26, 2011)

troubleenuf said:


> You should probably read the post first. The third post in this thread reads as follows "Operated by Sang Lee, former head of the USTU which was the NGB before USAT was established and Sang and many others were unceremoniously told to not let the door hit them in the a$$ on the way out."


You are right.  I am not used to seeing people putting their reply before the quote they are replying too.  I thought you were just throwing the statement out there. My apologies on that.



			
				troubleenuf said:
			
		

> I also believe it should be remember that some of these people were responsible for what happened with millions of dollars in budget being "mishandled" and $1.2 million more being overspent. That is not just a few dollars missing and yes I do feel it leads to their credibility. You might not but I do.


Since I was never involved in the USTU I do not know what happened.  As far as I'm concerned the credibility of USTC leaders is fine.  Why because I do not know the real happenings of what went down between the USTU and USOC, so I could not possible judge them fairly based on hear-say, half facts, or rumors.  What I am involved in is the USTC and thus far they have been very opened about where the money is being spent. 

I have placed my support and reputation behind the USTC and their leaders because of the vision and drive that they have.  Time will tell if I did the right thing.  Thus far it has proven to be a good decision.


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