# New Jersey school puts lid on bathroom breaks



## KenpoTess (Mar 5, 2004)

The Associated Press


Last Updated: February 18, 2004, 05:43:00 PM PST


LAWRENCE, N.J. (AP) - When you gotta go, you gotta go. But you can't always, at least not here. Some middle school students are avoiding soft drinks, water and other liquids during school hours for fear of an urgent need to answer nature's call.
Under a new policy at the Lawrence Middle School, seventh- and eighth-graders are allowed to leave class for the bathroom a maximum of 15 times a month. As a result, some are afraid to use up their bathroom passes too quickly and end up with a full bladder and nowhere to go.

The pass system went into effect last month as a way to monitor the school restrooms and stop students from skipping class. It is the latest in a series of disciplinary measures school administrators have taken in response to behavioral problems that have included bomb threats.

School officials defend the policy as a way to ensure safety, security and order. But some parents say the system goes too far. The right to go to the bathroom, they say, is a health and civil rights issue and as taxpayers, they think it is a freedom they pay for.

"When my son Matthew used all his passes, he was then told he couldn't go to the bathroom," parent Susan Gregory told The Times of Trenton. "We called the school and were told the bathroom is a privilege, not a right. Then we were told if a child has to go to the bathroom more than three times a day, we need (to bring them) a doctor's note.

"This is utterly ridiculous. Now my son doesn't want to go to the bathroom at school," she said. "He says he won't drink or he'll hold it until he gets home. This can't be healthy."

Urologists say the practice can lead to infections and incontinence.

"Common sense tells you the policy doesn't make any sense," said Dr. Christopher S. Cooper, an associate professor of urology at the University of Iowa who specializes in pediatric urology. "When children need to go, they should be allowed to go. It isn't good to hold it in or drink less fluids. It could have long-term effects on a child's health."

Cooper, the leader of a landmark study that looked at the problems tied to limiting bathroom access for children in elementary schools, said between 7 and 15 percent of 7-year-olds have bladder problems. As children age, their bladders develop and they can control them better, but older children can still have trouble that can be made worse by limiting bathroom access.

"I see lots of junior high kids every day who have problems with urinary tract infections from not voiding frequently enough," he said. "There is also an epidemic of constipation because kids are not consuming enough fluids."

While Cooper acknowledges teachers need uninterrupted time to teach, and that some students ask for a bathroom pass to skip class, he says a student who sits in class trying to restrain the desire to urinate will be distracted and won't be able to pay attention to the lesson.

Principal Nancy Pitcher thinks the policy offers students ample opportunities to use the bathroom. She said it was a necessary step to guarantee the safety of her students and encourage learning. The high school implemented a similar system the previous year.

"We wanted some control of students in terms of who was going in and out of the bathrooms," she said. "The students have 15 opportunities out of 20 to 22 days in the month to use the bathroom pass, and another 15 to go wherever else they need to go. That is quite a few times."


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## Chicago Green Dragon (Mar 5, 2004)

I hope someone gets a good attorney and sues the school system for this rediculous act they have put forth.

Its one thing trying to stop delinquency and truency but another to stop someone from using the washroom when they need too.

I think if they tried this in the workforce or the higher level of education areas they would get sued in a heartbeat.

Is Johny Cocrin in the house     :CTF: 

Chicago Green Dragon

 :asian:


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## Bob Hubbard (Mar 5, 2004)

I'd make the teachers use the same system.

Oh wait....this is the same group that said test scores were meaningless (after a group of them failed the same tests given to their students.....)

Morons.

Common sence has left the building and they wonder why so many kids are going postal nowadays.  Hell, if I was in school today they would have executed me on principal.  (I used to read war books, knew how to make gunpowder by 6th grade, etc.)


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## Chicago Green Dragon (Mar 5, 2004)

Oh boy..... They would have suspended you and you would have probably been on nightline the next day.

I have always wondered what has happend to the youth of today. When I was younger we had movies like Rambo, Full Metal Jacket and i once never thought about hurting anyone. But, today if something violent happend they attribute it so many times to movies or tv violence.

Chicago Green Dragon

 :asian: 



			
				Kaith Rustaz said:
			
		

> I'd make the teachers use the same system.
> 
> Oh wait....this is the same group that said test scores were meaningless (after a group of them failed the same tests given to their students.....)
> 
> ...


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## Ender (Mar 5, 2004)

I'd pee on the floor


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## Chicago Green Dragon (Mar 5, 2004)

Hey the students can do a "Pee-In" to protest.

Chicago Green Dragon

 :asian: 




			
				Ender said:
			
		

> I'd pee on the floor


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## Bob Hubbard (Mar 5, 2004)

Yup.

Lets see.... when I was in 1st-3rd grade I was a regular kissing bandit.
(Hmm....sex offender)

By jr. high I had already built slingshots, crossbows and blowguns, and knew how to make gunpowder.
(Hmm... terrorist)

In high school I played D&D alot.
(Hmm....devil worshiper..likely to sacrifice the schools lone remaining virgin...)

Also, engaged in slam dancing, ECW style wrestling (chair shots are bad.....) and traded porn tapes with a couple of my teachers.
(Hmm....violent sexoffender, possibly part of a cartel)

Regularly carried ibuprophen due to pain and headaches.
(Drug user.)

We won't even mention that I listened to heavy metal, wore black, was a loner and a computer geek.  I mean, on that alone today they put you in isolation.

Add in the rest, well, I'd be lucky to survive the "reprogramming" I'd undergo at court order. 


Its like Galleger said.  You goto school to learn to communicate and the first rule you hear is "No Talking.".


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## Touch Of Death (Mar 5, 2004)

KenpoTess said:
			
		

> The Associated Press
> 
> 
> Last Updated: February 18, 2004, 05:43:00 PM PST
> ...


Maybe the "Depends" lobbyists are behind this tyrany. :uhyeah: 
Sean


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## theletch1 (Mar 5, 2004)

Is this the same school that implemented a fine for being tardy to class?  I heard an article about it on an a.m. radio station at work the other night.  May have been in Cleveland, OH.  The deal was that if you were late getting to class you had to pay a $5.00 fine.  One kid interviewed said if he saw that he was going to be late he'd just go home and skip the rest of the day rather than pay the fine.  Ya know, I applaud a little creativity from teachers if they see that some of the old teaching methods just aren't working anymore but these kinds of stories really make me wonder.


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## TheRustyOne (Mar 5, 2004)

It's NJ...why does this not surprise me?

I forget how it was in my HS (i grew up in MD, not NJ, luckily) but if you had to go, there was maybe one teacher who wouldn't let you...and she changed her policy after a kid hurled in her class cuz she said no.

...but in my high school, I do remember having to go halfway across the school to get to the only unlocked bathroom...and it was also the ONLY room in the school not connected to the outside, so you always came back smelling like ciggies. they only unlocked the bathrooms during between classes, and before/after school. ...my school was shaped like a large I w/ the sides extended, and the middle shortened. Afore mentioned unlocked bathroom was up where the middle part met the top bar, and it didn't matter from whence you came, you had to go there. The exception was the gym b/c the locker room had a bathroom in it.

i hated using the bathroom at the high school. the cigarette smoke seriously bothered me, but, as compared to the rest of the county, the school was clean! Other high schools in my county had bad drug and skipping problems.


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## Seig (Mar 5, 2004)

Once again, those who probably do not, norhave ever had children, are telling the rest of us how they should be raised.  I'm with Bob, if I had to go to school today with the way I was, I probably would have been thrown out and labeled extremely dangerous.


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## KenpoTess (Mar 6, 2004)

EAST BRUNSWICK, N.J. - Q: Why did the salamander cross the road? 



A: To get it on, on the other side. 

A parade of randy salamanders forced the periodic closure of an East Brunswick road Thursday, and was expected to do the same Friday as police stopped traffic from squishing the ardent amphibians. 

This is the time of year when salamanders use the road to get to Irelands Brook and several other small ponds where they breed. 

The township has a program to protect the critters, officially known as the "Beekman Road Vernal Pool Protection Plan (Amphibian Road Kill Reduction Plan)." 

Mayor William Neary said road kills significantly reduce salamander and frog populations and can lead to local extinctions at breeding ponds. 

He said the migration usually occurs over one or two nights in March after a rain when the temperature is about 50 degrees. 

Now, apparently, it's party time. 

Police put out barricades after dark; the migrations usually run from six to 12 hours. 

Spotted salamanders, spring peepers, green frogs, chorus frogs, wood frogs and Fowler's toads all cross the road, Neary said. 

Vernal pools are natural or manmade temporary ponds, that fill up in the fall and winter, drying up in summer. They are vital to the life cycle of the salamanders and frogs. 

The species leave their winter hibernation spots in upland forests and migrate to the vernal pools, often traveling great distances and taking the same route each year. 

Once at the pond, the animals mate, the eggs are deposited in the pools, and the adults go their separate ways.


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## arnisador (Mar 6, 2004)

Kaith Rustaz said:
			
		

> In high school I played D&D alot.
> (Hmm....devil worshiper..


Heh. I got that too.

Not letting kids take bathroom breaks? It's fighting the symptoms of loss of control of the classroom rather than addressing the problem head-on. If my kids were in such a school I'd tell them to use the bathroom whenever they needed to and if the teacher gave them grief to hand him or her a copy of my business card and say "Call my father and discuss it with him."


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## Ceicei (Mar 6, 2004)

theletch1 said:
			
		

> Is this the same school that implemented a fine for being tardy to class? I heard an article about it on an a.m. radio station at work the other night. May have been in Cleveland, OH. The deal was that if you were late getting to class you had to pay a $5.00 fine. One kid interviewed said if he saw that he was going to be late he'd just go home and skip the rest of the day rather than pay the fine. Ya know, I applaud a little creativity from teachers if they see that some of the old teaching methods just aren't working anymore but these kinds of stories really make me wonder.


It's Lehi High School, in Lehi, Utah that is implementing the $5.00 tardy fine. It's all over the news. I don't know if any other high schools in other places/states are doing the same thing.

http://www.harktheherald.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=15526&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0

- Ceicei


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## Chicago Green Dragon (Mar 6, 2004)

I wondering what they do if the kids amass a bill they can not pay ?

Chicago Green Dragon

 :asian: 



			
				Ceicei said:
			
		

> It's Lehi High School, in Lehi, Utah that is implementing the $5.00 tardy fine.  It's all over the news.  I don't know if any other high schools in other places/states are doing the same thing.
> 
> - Ceicei


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## Ceicei (Mar 6, 2004)

Chicago Green Dragon said:
			
		

> I wondering what they do if the kids amass a bill they can not pay ?
> 
> Chicago Green Dragon
> 
> :asian:


"Under the new policy, if the student doesn't pay the fine, or go to attendance school, he or she will be unable to register for classes in the next semester. Worthington said the problem with the old policy was that some students were only coming to school for the social portion, not for the academics."

This comes from the article.

- Ceicei


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## FUZZYJ692000 (Mar 10, 2004)

as far as the restrooms, that is really stupid.  if a kid's got to go they've got to go.  not all deviant behavior happens in the restrooms, it's normally out in the parking lots. it's also a health risk, for urinary track infections, which can lead to some serious issues.  also many people have small bladders and when they need to go, they've got to go.  if the rest room is that much of an issue, keep a key give the key to the kids and give them a time limit.  as for paying for tardies...that's just funny.  the fact that all the kids are going to be acquiring a lot of debt to tardies.  plus, the fact that they won't allow them to register for classes.  that's brilliant, not!  kids are required to go to school until they are 18 so what's the point of that, they're going to show up to not go to class, please...who comes of with these stupid procedures?


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## Seig (Mar 10, 2004)

FUZZYJ692000 said:
			
		

> as far as the restrooms, that is really stupid. if a kid's got to go they've got to go. not all deviant behavior happens in the restrooms, it's normally out in the parking lots. it's also a health risk, for urinary track infections, which can lead to some serious issues. also many people have small bladders and when they need to go, they've got to go. if the rest room is that much of an issue, keep a key give the key to the kids and give them a time limit. as for paying for tardies...that's just funny. the fact that all the kids are going to be acquiring a lot of debt to tardies. plus, the fact that they won't allow them to register for classes. that's brilliant, not! kids are required to go to school until they are 18 so what's the point of that, they're going to show up to not go to class, please...who comes of with these stupid procedures?


College Graduates


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## loki09789 (Mar 11, 2004)

Kaith Rustaz said:
			
		

> I'd make the teachers use the same system.
> 
> Oh wait....this is the same group that said test scores were meaningless (after a group of them failed the same tests given to their students.....)
> 
> ...



I think the 'tests are meaningless idea' is based on assessing student placement and potential on such a narrow band of criteria.  If a 5th grader takes a test and is told that he/she scores the same as a college senior, it doesn't mean that the 5th grader should be placed in College courses.  If a student fails a standardized test, that does not mean that the student is terminally stupid, it only means that there is a disconnect in the student's skill, comprehension and application/preparation - which partially is the teacher's responsibility to help develop, so poor student test scores could also reflect on a need for teacher improvement as well.

As far as the pass procedure, I teach/taught in schools (middle/high school) where students have a schedule book with a set number of passes in the back.  They did fine by learning to use their time well.  If they use up the passes before the end of the year, they have to purchase a filler book.  It is a tool of accountability and personal responsibility development.  It is not designed to 'stop' kids from going to the bathroom during class as much as a way of teaching students to use the class change, daily time more efficiently.  If there are students/parents who don't understand that and get media attention, they are the same people who we criticise because they get mad when little Johnny/Janie gets hurt during sparring.  They are protecting their children from any frustration or discomfort at the expense of the learning - learning is a process of being bad at something until you get good at something - even managing your daily routine and personal habits.

How productive is a student's development if they show up to class late regularly, leave early and/or take breaks regularly and leave the MA training floor on a regular basis?  How much individual time do you end up spending with such students 'catching them up' when there is a whole class of other students to devote time to as well?

School is about more than just test subjects, it is about socialization and personal responsibility as well.  If students don't have a framework of structure, they will never develop self management strategies.  If you want to get upset at schools about something, try looking at the school lunches and nutritional value, that is a real concern.

I am a teacher, and I agree there are some stupid policies and practices that are being implemented, but REMEMBER that the teachers are not the implimentors, Administrators and Superintendents/School Boards (some of which have NEVER taught or don't have very much time in the trenches before they go for higher degrees and higher paying jobs) are the policy writers and final decision makers.  

TEACHERS are the people trying to help your children learn the critical thinking and subject skills as well as acceptable social behavior so they can be productive, positively impacting citizens as well as NON-Judgemental and prejudicial about things they don't know a lot about.... like bashing teachers/education/military/religion/LEO/Race when you are not directly involved, knowledgeable on the subject.


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## loki09789 (Mar 11, 2004)

Ceicei said:
			
		

> "Under the new policy, if the student doesn't pay the fine, or go to attendance school, he or she will be unable to register for classes in the next semester. Worthington said the problem with the old policy was that some students were only coming to school for the social portion, not for the academics."
> 
> This comes from the article.
> 
> - Ceicei



And how many school owners/operators here would feel good about awarding a student a Black Belt who only showed up at the beginning of the class, got some pointers, played with his/her friends and left on a regular basis - but could do all the required skills?  Isn't that the criticism of video/seminar/summer camp ONLY trained Martial Artists?


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## FUZZYJ692000 (Mar 11, 2004)

loki09789 said:
			
		

> I am a teacher, and I agree there are some stupid policies and practices that are being implemented, but REMEMBER that the teachers are not the implimentors, Administrators and Superintendents/School Boards (some of which have NEVER taught or don't have very much time in the trenches before they go for higher degrees and higher paying jobs) are the policy writers and final decision makers.
> 
> TEACHERS are the people trying to help your children learn the critical thinking and subject skills as well as acceptable social behavior so they can be productive, positively impacting citizens as well as NON-Judgemental and prejudicial about things they don't know a lot about.... like bashing teachers/education/military/religion/LEO/Race when you are not directly involved, knowledgeable on the subject.



I couldn't agree with you more on the fact taht teachers aren't the one's creating these rules and procedures.  i agree that tardies especially those that are consistantly tardy should have some type of punishment.  but i believe that making them pay is ridiculious, based on the fact that i knew a lot of high schoolers that didn't work, therefore their parents would end up paying for their tardies.  restroom breaks are fine, i have one family member who happens to have a small bladder and her teacher had told her she couldn't go to the rest room and she lost control of her bladder.  this was extremely embarassing for her, and we all know how kids can taunt one another.  i do like the fact that your school that you taught at did have extra bathroom passes, i think that could be acceptible.  it is good to monitor some of these students but most of the students are their to get an education and don't go around causing problems (i.e. smoking in the bathroom, writting on the walls, starting fights).  there is always a handful of students that make it bad for the rest of the students.  as for teachers, i think that most teachers are under paid and deserve more respect for the things they put up with from the students and even in some case parents.


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## loki09789 (Mar 11, 2004)

FUZZYJ692000 said:
			
		

> restroom breaks are fine, i have one family member who happens to have a small bladder and her teacher had told her she couldn't go to the rest room and she lost control of her bladder.  this was extremely embarassing for her, and we all know how kids can taunt one another.



And the teacher is an isolated case of misunderstanding, poor judgement or poor character.  What percentages and what duration of the 'bathroom break' problem is not being discussed in a news article where angry parents and urologists are being quoted?  What intentions and goals are not being mentioned?

I remember when the Buffalo City School Teacher's went on strike and the Newspapers were writing what the 'average' income of a school teacher was.  RIGHT!  They inflated the dollar amount by calculating the dollar value of health benefits, retirement...and other benefits that any worker was entitled to.  Sum up the dollar value of the salary, benefits and potential earnings, college benefits of the average enlisted serviceman and it looks like a he%% of a lot of money, but they don't hand that cash over to the soldier/sailor or Marine.

Remember that the media is partially an advertising medium as well as a short term chronicler, so they don't take/have the time to really present a balanced story.  Take it all with a grain of salt.  I was shocked at the tone of the reactions to this story.  Most of the level headed, reasonable posters were really inflammatory - I would NEVER have read such prejudicial comments if it was about an ethnic/religious group or say Fireman.  It was really shocking to see the polite meter go right into the red here.


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## loki09789 (Mar 11, 2004)

"Cooper, the leader of a landmark study that looked at the problems tied to limiting bathroom access for children in elementary schools, said between 7 and 15 percent of 7-year-olds have bladder problems. As children age, their bladders develop and they can control them better, but older children can still have trouble that can be made worse by limiting bathroom access.

"I see lots of junior high kids every day who have problems with urinary tract infections from not voiding frequently enough," he said. "There is also an epidemic of constipation because kids are not consuming enough fluids."

Within the context of the article, the implication is that bathroom pass policies are the sole cause of such problems.... not accurate, but does sell papers because it is sensational

The reality is that children and teens, on the average, don't drink or 'void' regularly because of a variety of factors...too many soft drinks and not enough water, lack of awareness of body needs/healthy practices in general... not just because a school has a pass policy for bathroom use.

Also, the parent who 'talked to the school' is paraphrasing the conversation in an irritated state, so of course he/she/they will make it out that the school was being ridiculous.  I have all the faith in the world that the people who establish such policies will be open to modifications to it as they see where adjustments need to be made.


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## loki09789 (Mar 11, 2004)

FUZZYJ692000 said:
			
		

> but i believe that making them pay is ridiculious, based on the fact that i knew a lot of high schoolers that didn't work, therefore their parents would end up paying for their tardies.



I don't know if Worthington is a private school or not, but I don't know of public schools that could ever get away with charging money of students for tardies.  

If it is a private school the money issue could also be an administrative strategy to create communication between parents/students/school to make sure that all parties know what is expected of the student and what the student is really doing.  

If I was paying private school tuition for my son's education and he was so regularly tardy or skipping, so much that it was becoming a charge on the tuition bill or barring admission, I would want to know about it.  It would also promote/support the school's dedication to filling limited seats with students who demonstrate a certain amount of character.

If I were an uninvolved parent, the payment policy would act as a minimal level motivator to get me involved in my son's learning.


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