# Interesting quote from Mike Pick Jr...



## GouRonin (Jan 31, 2003)

I spoke with Mike Pick Jr. regarding this quote and he gave me permission to use his name with it.

_*"Kenpo in its most evolved and learned state is a knife system."*_

I enjoy knife work myself so I thought I would share this thought with you all and see where it took us.

Cheers!


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## Blindside (Jan 31, 2003)

Hi Gou,

I had a huge post written out and about 3/4 of the way through, I decided "screw it."  

Mr. Pick is entitled to his own opinion, and it is probably more informed than my own.

Lamont


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## D_Brady (Jan 31, 2003)

I have a video of Mr. Parker talking about the universal pattern, he makes reference to using two knives to really see and understand the different planes of the pattern.


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## Kenpo Yahoo (Jan 31, 2003)

Hey Gou,

The Pick family's reputation precedes them, but what is their reasoning behind this statement.  I think that knifework is extremely interesting, and if taught intelligently, extremely effective.  However, I don't know that I could agree with Mr. Picks statement under the current circumstances.

Maybe it would be helpful to know their motivation behind knife use, I may be misinterpreting their meaning.  I treat a knife like a gun, depending on the situation I may draw it to try and de-escalate the situation, but in most cases I would prefer the element of surprise.  That means if I draw I plan on doing serious harm.  Just like a gun, you don't draw unless you are willing to shoot.  

Here's a pic of the knife I carry.





Some of the info from the AKKI webpage.
It's a fixed blade fighter. Total length of the Knife is 9 3/16", Blade length is 4 3/16"  ATS-34 Steel (Sharpened on both sides - Double Edged)  The knife handle is made out of G10   The "Kydex Sheath" is designed with a 30 degree angle, to facilitate speed of action in drawing the knife. The Knife can be drawn from the sheath either "Long Held" or "Short Held". The 30 degree angle is designed for comfort in natural everyday movements and could be concealed if necessary.

This is a very interesting subject, does anyone have anything else to add


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## Jill666 (Jan 31, 2003)

Anyone can have any opinion... but I will add that several of the men I train with (3-5th dan Kenpo) are members of AMOK! and train heavily with knives. I have not attended any of their classes which are on the same night as my BB group class at my primary school. The next seminar that comes up- well, I'm there.

I just looked up- their instructor is Prof. Thomas Sortis, for anyone who knows more. There my info ends.

Peace out.:ninja:


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## Sigung86 (Jan 31, 2003)

Motion Kenpo, in its ultimate form, lends itself quite readily to knife, club, keys, coins, trash cans, billy clubs, folding card chairs, card tables, drinking straws, belts, shoes, cigarettes and cigarette lighters, watches, skillets, forks, knives, ... Well ... I think you get the idea.

We all, up to and including Mike Pick, get out of the art, what we look to find.

I've even thought about working on a form involving the use of an Uzi, Mac-10, and two .40 caliber Model-22 Glocks! However, I haven't figured out  a way to keep the audience safe!  :lol:

Dan


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## GouRonin (Jan 31, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Jill666 _
> *I just looked up- their instructor is Prof. Thomas Sortis, for anyone who knows more. There my info ends.*



I've spoken with Tom Sotis a few times and seen some of his work via video. Good stuff and really knowledgable.


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## Jill666 (Jan 31, 2003)

So when I get some training I'll chime in with opinions and questions.


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## jfarnsworth (Jan 31, 2003)

Interesting analogy. Insightful.


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## Doc (Feb 2, 2003)

> _Originally posted by GouRonin _
> *I spoke with Mike Pick Jr. regarding this quote and he gave me permission to use his name with it.
> 
> "Kenpo in its most evolved and learned state is a knife system."
> ...



I think sweping generalizations are not very informative, especially with a generic term like "kenpo." It presupposes that everyone has the same perspective which obvious is not the case by any stretch of the imagination.

Perhaps the quote should be prefaced by, "Kenpo as I know, understand, and practice it is....."

I'll even go on a limb and suggest it was not Ed Parker's intention in my opinion. That is not to say some interpretations do not translate well to knife work because they obviously do. And should someone choose to make that their personal focus, I'm sure it would be effective. But then I think anybody with a knife in each hand is dangerous.

Mr. Parker used to say to me, "Never bring a knife to a gun fight." And he had in his personal collections more guns than knives.

Whatever floats your boat works for me.


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## jazkiljok (Feb 2, 2003)

doesn't seem it rather contradictory that kenpo karate (fist law, empty hands) would suddenly find its more evolved state as one requiring the use of weapons (such as blades)?


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## GouRonin (Feb 2, 2003)

The reason I asked this was because I wanted to hear some ideas regarding the translation of the empty hand to the weapon and the changes that people might personally make to translate what they do for this.

Let's not make this a _"so and so is wrong"_ issue but rather, a _"What I would do to make the translation from hand to weapon for me is..."_


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## Les (Feb 2, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Jill666 _
> *I just looked up- their instructor is Prof. Thomas Sortis, for anyone who knows more. There my info ends.*



By coincidence, Professor Thomas Sotis will be here England later this month.

The BKKU, (British Kenpo Karatre Union) are hosting a seminar with him.

I don't know much about him, but what I have heard is quite positive in a general way.

Les


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## Les (Feb 2, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Kenpo Yahoo _
> *Here's a pic of the knife I carry.
> 
> 
> ...



That's a very nice knife, to be sure.

I'm hoping to pick mine up at the camp in March.

See you there,

Les


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## Doc (Feb 2, 2003)

> _Originally posted by jazkiljok _
> *doesn't seem it rather contradictory that kenpo karate (fist law, empty hands) would suddenly find its more evolved state as one requiring the use of weapons (such as blades)? *



See? There you go thinking again! I think the question is how you make the leap from empty "I'm just defending myself" hands  to I got 2 knives and I'm just defending myself.

"Bookem Dano! that ain't self defense."


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## kenmpoka (Feb 2, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Doc _
> *See? There you go thinking again! I think the question is how you make the leap from empty "I'm just defending myself" hands  to I got 2 knives and I'm just defending myself.
> 
> "Bookem Dano! that ain't self defense." *


Indeed, Sigung LaBounty has an interesting
aticle about knives on his site this month.


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## Doc (Feb 2, 2003)

> _Originally posted by kenmpoka _
> *Indeed, Sigung LaBounty has an interesting
> aticle about knives on his site this month. *



You could have given me a link "Brudda."


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## kenmpoka (Feb 2, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Doc _
> *You could have given me a link "Brudda." *


Ohhhhh, so sorry,
http://www.thesigung.com/index.html


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## cdhall (Feb 2, 2003)

> _Originally posted by GouRonin _
> *I spoke with Mike Pick Jr. regarding this quote and he gave me permission to use his name with it.
> 
> "Kenpo in its most evolved and learned state is a knife system."
> ...



My 2 cents will be that perhaps 
"Kenpo with Knives, is a more learned and evolved state than Kenpo with Empty Hands."  And more severe to be sure.

Just a thought.


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## Sigung86 (Feb 3, 2003)

> _Originally posted by cdhall _
> *My 2 cents will be that perhaps
> "Kenpo with Knives, is a more learned and evolved state than Kenpo with Empty Hands."  And more severe to be sure.
> 
> Just a thought. *



Hmmmm ... Wonder what the Chinese is for "Knife Law"?

Dan


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## Blindside (Feb 3, 2003)

dao fa?????

I dunno, it just doesn't roll off the tongue....

Lamont


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## jazkiljok (Feb 3, 2003)

http://realfighting.com/

click on James Keating

very interesting talk on the subject of blades, history, training, methods-- etc.

he's originally an old TraCo student.


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## Blindside (Feb 3, 2003)

If you ever get a chance to train with Jim, do so, he is absolutely worth it.

An honest, up front guy who is an excellent trainer.  What more can you ask for?  I like his approach and attitude.  He is a guy who trains for real life, and lives what he teaches.  The whole time he was training us, he had that little .38 in his back pocket.  I couldn't figure out what it was until he pulled it out to show us his carry options.

He is the real deal.

Lamont


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## Sigung86 (Feb 3, 2003)

Hmmm... Wonder what the Chinese is for "Little .38 in the back pocket Law"?

Dan


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## Marcus Buonfiglio (Feb 4, 2003)

Let's not make this a _"so and so is wrong"_ issue but rather, a _"What I would do to make the translation from hand to weapon for me is..."_ [/B][/QUOTE] 

I know Mike Pick Jr. very well. A good man. I also know his father, Mike Pick Sr. I am one of his students. The transition from empty hand to edged weapons is a transition that encompasses principles only. There are no concepts or theories. The principles of mass engagement and outer rim domination are of paramount importance, coupled with a thorough understanding of the neutral bow. To simply put a knife in your hand and do the prescribed Kenpo techniques will eventually get you injured by your own movement. To try and write "What I would do to make the transition between..." would be way to wordy and time consuming.  But what I have done is to seek out who I thought, based on my own observations and the words of those I respect,
was the premier Knife student of Ed Parker Senior. Having learned over the last several years a small amount of what the man has to teach I must say that I fully agree with Mike Pick Jr's statement. 
An interesting topic to bring up Gou. I will see Mike Pick Jr. on the 13th of Feb for the Pick Sr. knife seminar at Brian Hawkins studio. I'll mention to him the good thread that his statement started. 

Continued success
Marcus Buonfiglio
Southwest Regional Director
Universal Kenpo Federation


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