# More Systema Questions



## Xue Sheng (Apr 12, 2007)

I was just going though the Systema web page http://www.russianmartialart.com/ and I was noticing that there is training for fighting in the water and confined spaces.

One of the styles I train is Sanda (police/military version) and I have always trained this outside which is something I have come to feel is a good thing since very few fights take place in a nice clean and dry training hall with lots of space, even ground and padded floors. 

Is this type of training, water fighting and confined spaces an important part of systema?

Also, and this is purely out of curiosity (and if I asked this question in CMA it would be meant with answers like as long as it takes [and that is the truth] so if that is the case feel free to tell me it was a stupid question) I was wondering what is required for someone to actually become a teacher? My curiosity is based more on if I found an alleged Systema school not in Toronto what qualifications does the average teacher have?

Also I was looking at some of the seminars and they mention that you should be familiar with certain DVDs before attending, is this very important to do before you go to a seminar?

Oh and I bought the let every breath DVD.


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## erich (Apr 12, 2007)

Great questions
Furtry09 is more qualified to answer but since he doesn't seem to be around I'll reply.



Xue Sheng said:


> Is this type of training, water fighting and confined spaces an important part of systema?



Systema places great emphasis on the idea that real violence occurs outside of the "dojo" under non-optimal circumstances.  This includes not only environmental differences (confined area, water, pavement) but others like your phsyical/mental condition (you may be tired, hungry, wounded, drunk) and your circumstances (you may be supporting your 90 yr old grandmother, holding a baby, or a bag of groceries).

Obviously you can't train for everything, so systema training encourages awareness, creativity, and working from disadvantaged situations.  Water and confined spaces were just two common and rich subjects to explore on video.



Xue Sheng said:


> My curiosity is based more on if I found an alleged Systema school not in Toronto what qualifications does the average teacher have?



Since systema is relatively new and relatively local to Toronto teacher qualification outside of Toronto is relatively lose compared to other arts.   I hesitate to characterize and "average" instructor but there are couple of designations to look for - "certified" teacher is the highest level.  It means that Vladimir has observed you first hand and approves of you as a representative of the style.  "Affiliated" teachers simply have positive (but often superficial) relationship with Vladimir and have received his permission to teach his systema.  They are not "certified" but often will be in the process of getting certified.

The skill level among certified teachers varies from phenomenal to competant but all have a solid base of knowledge, are trusted by Vladimir, and are dedicated to continued learning and improvement.  These qualities vary more among affiliated instructors but this designation does indicate non-trivial familiarity with systema.

There are also many clubs that have teachers or leaders with no designation.  These clubs are encouraged as it is the only training option in most of the world, and their leaders often become the next generation of certified teachers.



Xue Sheng said:


> Also I was looking at some of the seminars and they mention that you should be familiar with certain DVDs before attending, is this very important to do before you go to a seminar?



For you, not important.  I suspect that these statements are made because systema traiing is sufficiently different from the common perception of martial arts training that it is in everybody's best interest to make sure the seminar attendees know what they are getting into before they put any money down.


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## NYCRonin (Apr 12, 2007)

Pretty good reply, Erich!
I agree overall.
****
Just as an aside for readers - most of my full out self protection over the last couple of decades, has been limited by rules and regulations and the confines of stone walls and iron bars. I find that the confinement and limitations have been a boon for attempting to understand full freedom in 'street' self protection.

And experience in both personal challenges and in the Systema community - have happlily provided me with a form of peace where I can relax enough to deal with challenges in a calmer ste of be-ing. BUT - a more full discussion of this is best left to another place and time.
*****
Erich - good work.


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## Furtry (Apr 12, 2007)

Eric give a guy a chance...LOL , I've been writing exams.
XS, I promise I'll give a full answer later, tomorow. Eric for now has covered it very well.


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## Xue Sheng (Apr 14, 2007)

Sorry I didn&#8217;t get back to this sooner, I wanted to respond when I had time to really read the responses I received and then respond properly.



erich said:


> Great questions
> Furtry09 is more qualified to answer but since he doesn't seem to be around I'll reply.



I am looking forward to his reply, but greatly appreciate yours as well. 



erich said:


> Systema places great emphasis on the idea that real violence occurs outside of the "dojo" under non-optimal circumstances. This includes not only environmental differences (confined area, water, pavement) but others like your phsyical/mental condition (you may be tired, hungry, wounded, drunk) and your circumstances (you may be supporting your 90 yr old grandmother, holding a baby, or a bag of groceries).
> 
> Obviously you can't train for everything, so systema training encourages awareness, creativity, and working from disadvantaged situations. Water and confined spaces were just two common and rich subjects to explore on video.



I like this. 

I have trained most of my life inside of a school, never had mats however, not even in jujitsu. But always inside where it was warm, dry and level. One school CMA, did not have AC but that was really the only thing it didn&#8217;t have. Since starting Sanda I have done all of my training outside with my sifu in all sorts of weather and this to me makes a bit more sense. Not that the other way does not produce good fighters, it does, but to me this training in various outside situations makes more sense. I find out what the ground feels like for instance when I hit it . But I also get use to moving on uneven ground. I have done some of my CMA forms outside, but that was on my own, not with any of my Sifus.

Also in the book it does talk about getting the body ready to be able to handle things when it is not comfortable. This combined with the water and confined space training makes sense to me if for no other reason than it may prevent panic. 



erich said:


> Since systema is relatively new and relatively local to Toronto teacher qualification outside of Toronto is relatively lose compared to other arts. I hesitate to characterize and "average" instructor but there are couple of designations to look for - "certified" teacher is the highest level. It means that Vladimir has observed you first hand and approves of you as a representative of the style. "Affiliated" teachers simply have positive (but often superficial) relationship with Vladimir and have received his permission to teach his systema. They are not "certified" but often will be in the process of getting certified.
> 
> The skill level among certified teachers varies from phenomenal to competant but all have a solid base of knowledge, are trusted by Vladimir, and are dedicated to continued learning and improvement. These qualities vary more among affiliated instructors but this designation does indicate non-trivial familiarity with systema.
> 
> There are also many clubs that have teachers or leaders with no designation. These clubs are encouraged as it is the only training option in most of the world, and their leaders often become the next generation of certified teachers.



This is good to hear this. There are currently any Systema people in my area teaching anything, but it is good to know that there is some kind of control over this. I have seen WAY too many people teaching Taiji that have been to one seminar with some master and POOF now they think they are teachers.

I actually am closer to Toronto and Quebec than other places so I will likely go to a seminar as soon as I can fit it in to my current schedule. I was looking into going to Toronto in May but it is not likely I will be able to make that one, too much going on in May. So hopefully he will have another in the Summer and hopefully I can get to one then. I am becoming very intrigued with Systema form what I am reading and all the great responses I have been getting. 



erich said:


> For you, not important. I suspect that these statements are made because systema traiing is sufficiently different from the common perception of martial arts training that it is in everybody's best interest to make sure the seminar attendees know what they are getting into before they put any money down.



OK that makes it easier to justify to the boss (my wife) it was getting more expensive there for a minute. 

But with that are there any of the DVD you feel I should look at before I go to a seminar?

Thanks


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## marlon (Apr 15, 2007)

i know Kevin Secour in Montreal and he is always giving seminars and inviting people to his classes.  He is very skilled and an excellent teacher.  i have had a few seminars with him and will be going to take some classes soon (is knows kempo as well and is helping me improve my skills with systema.  He is trtained by Vlad.

XS i did not realize you ware in Toronto.

Respectfully,
Marlon


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## Mark Jakabcsin (Apr 15, 2007)

Xue Sheng said:


> So hopefully he will have another in the Summer and hopefully I can get to one then. I am becoming very intrigued with Systema form what I am reading and all the great responses I have been getting.


 
XS,
No need to wait for a seminar to train in Toronto. While I attend several seminars each year I also try to train one week in Toronto at Vlad's. He has class in the evening M-F and day class M, W, F. On Tues and Thursday in the day I train at Emmanuel's (about 30 minutes away depending on traffic). And I generally try to get a private/semi-private lesson in each day with one of the senior instructors. This makes for 4+ hours of training a day and a very tired body. Classes at Vladimir's are very reasonable, something like $7 US per class. I can not remember what Emmanuel's classes cost but they are well worth it. Private lessons are a flat rate, regardless of how many people attend. Hence you can spread the cost out over 3 or 4 people and still get plenty of attention. Bringing a training partner or two along greatly reduces the costs as everyone can share in the hotel, transportation if driving, and private lessons. Plus it is nice to hear what each of your partner's pick up from the classes. Their perspective, understanding and memory will be different, hence the collective is far greater than the individual. 

Take care,

Mark J.


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## Xue Sheng (Apr 15, 2007)

marlon said:


> i know Kevin Secour in Montreal and he is always giving seminars and inviting people to his classes. He is very skilled and an excellent teacher. i have had a few seminars with him and will be going to take some classes soon (is knows kempo as well and is helping me improve my skills with systema. He is trtained by Vlad.
> 
> XS i did not realize you ware in Toronto.
> 
> ...


 
Sorry, My bad, I was was not clear, I am not in Toronto, I an much closer to Toronto than most other Systema places. I am in NY in the Adirondacks.


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## Xue Sheng (Apr 15, 2007)

Mark Jakabcsin said:


> XS,
> No need to wait for a seminar to train in Toronto. While I attend several seminars each year I also try to train one week in Toronto at Vlad's. He has class in the evening M-F and day class M, W, F. On Tues and Thursday in the day I train at Emmanuel's (about 30 minutes away depending on traffic). And I generally try to get a private/semi-private lesson in each day with one of the senior instructors. This makes for 4+ hours of training a day and a very tired body. Classes at Vladimir's are very reasonable, something like $7 US per class. I can not remember what Emmanuel's classes cost but they are well worth it. Private lessons are a flat rate, regardless of how many people attend. Hence you can spread the cost out over 3 or 4 people and still get plenty of attention. Bringing a training partner or two along greatly reduces the costs as everyone can share in the hotel, transportation if driving, and private lessons. Plus it is nice to hear what each of your partner's pick up from the classes. Their perspective, understanding and memory will be different, hence the collective is far greater than the individual.
> 
> Take care,
> ...


 
Thanks.


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## Furtry (Apr 17, 2007)

Xue Sheng said:


> > Is this type of training, water fighting and confined spaces an important part of systema?
> 
> 
> It's not focused on, but it is important to recognize limitations and your ability to adapt to those limitations. I my opinion this is the largest difference between Systema and the majority of MAs.
> ...


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## Xue Sheng (Apr 17, 2007)

Furtry said:


> It's not focused on, but it is important to recognize limitations and your ability to adapt to those limitations. I my opinion this is the largest difference between Systema and the majority of MAs.




From the sounds of it I would have to agree.



Furtry said:


> No easy answer to this one. There is a quantitative aspect and a qualitaive aspect. It took me about six years before VV asked me to teach at his school. Others have come and gone who taught before me. Ultimately it is about weather or not you understand the principles and can apply them to all situations. I was too reliant on my athleticism in execution, so I could talk the talk but couldn't truly walk the walk. Also, all certification is time reliant/dependant.




Thanks, my main concern was if I were to go to some Systema, other than Toronto, would I be finding a qualified systema teacher. 

I am not exactly sure what I am going to do yet about systema, but I am very interested and very impressed. I have the DVD for "Let every breath" coming and I will work with that for a while. I would like to get to a seminar in Toronto this year but I can't make the one in May so I will wait and see what comes up next.

I may be wrong, but I feel that if I am going to go check out Systema for the first time I am likely better starting from the source (Toronto) and going from there.  



Furtry said:


> In other words those that are into collecting decorations for their office are not around for long. They are referred to as t-shirt collectors.


 
Nah, I got enough T-Shirts back in when I use to go to concerts 

I have seen a lot of this type in CMA in the last 15 years, mainly in taiji. I call them forms collectors

Thank You for all the information.


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