# "Valentines Days coming? Oh crap, I forgot to get a girlfriend again."



## Cryozombie (Feb 12, 2008)

Well, Ok, I believe I do have a date for Valentines Day... but Frye's quote is just so quotable this time of year.
Since its the Big "V" on Thurdsay, here I sit on Tuesday morning, and I thought I'd share my insight into the big "L".  I don't mean Lesbian, but rather "Love".

Somthing I once read, which I think truely defines love is that Love is an Absolute quality, and that there can be no degrees of love... it is not possible to love someone a little more or a little less.  Now, I believe love is very much like a flower, and that you arent just "in love" (yes, that's right, I don't believe in love at first sight) but rather if a feeling is planted and tended to, it will grow, and bud, then flower... however unlike a flower, if it is truely love it will never wilt.  I don't think you can "fall out" of love... your feelings may change, but you will always love someone you have fallen in love with.  I honestly believe I have really been in love twice in my life, and the first person was someone I went to High School with.  We were the best of friends, but we never dated, never had an intimate relationship... But I can tell you to this day when she sends me emails telling me about how happy she is with her Husband, and her babies, that my heart soars.  It's an amazing thing, and I havn't seen her for at least 17 years.

Now, there is a second secret to love, and I think it is where other people fail at "love" because they mistake their feelings for love, when they are somthing less.  The second secret is that love is not the Happy, Giddy feeling someone makes you feel when you are around them... (that can be very symptomatic of being loved tho) I believe love has little to do with how someone makes you feel... and everything to do with how much you care about their feelings.   I'll use the example it may pain you to miss the big game to go with her to the opera, but if her heart is set on it, and you know how much joy it would bring her... or that It may make you miserable to have to let go of them for their own happiness, but if you choose your own misery for the sake of their happiness, these things are symptomatic of love.  My second great love shifted in and out of my life, and she was unhappy in her married relationship when she found me... I was there for her, and when she turned things around, as much as I hated to... I let her go again.  It was better for her that way.  It hurt me so bad when she left the first time, but back then I didn't understand things the way I do now.  And, of course, I don't care for her any less now than I ever did. (Although I don't think she believes that.)
Of course these are just my feelings on the subject... If you observe my track record I can't claim to be an expert by any means.  I've had my share of broken hearts that came from lesser feelings than love, that maybe I thought was love at the time... But I distingush them as somthing... different now.   I don't know... someone once told me that more than anyone, I know what its like to love more than life itself, but also how to hate untill the very end.  
So maybe I am just ruled by my passions.  One thing I do know, is that even with all that... I'm still very much just a hopeless romantic at heart.

Happy Valentines Day, Everyone.


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## Lisa (Feb 12, 2008)

Awesome.

I like the way you said it, John.

People always look at me funny when I tell them how lucky I am that my husband loves me.  I know I am one lucky woman.  We each have our own interests but never hesitate to give something up for the other one.  

A good example of his love was on our holiday last week in Puerto Vallarta.  He quietly and without complaint followed myself and both our girls around the Malecon, store after store as we shopped, carrying our bags, etc.  I know he would have much rather done just about anything else.  When our youngest asked "You are not having much fun are you Daddy?"  He simply replied "I am doing great just as long as you are having fun."  The whole trip, for him, was about making his girls happy.  Making sure they had the time of their lives.  

Things like that, simple, unselfish, things that we do for each other, I think, make our love stay blossomed.

I hope everyone finds what I have one day.


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## shesulsa (Feb 12, 2008)

So, exactly how is it you're still single? Oh right - because women love jerks. :lol2:

Excellent post, dear.  ((((hugs))))


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## Whitebelt (Feb 12, 2008)

Lisa said:


> Awesome.
> 
> I hope everyone finds what I have one day.


 
Ooh! Is it money?


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## Carol (Feb 12, 2008)

That was beautiful, John...and very very touching.


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## Ceicei (Feb 12, 2008)

Thank you John!  Beautifully written.  I'm sure there are others among us who feel the same way I do, so here goes!  Group hug!


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## MA-Caver (Feb 12, 2008)

Very nice. 

As a hopeless romantic me'self I can relate. It is hard to let go and yes feelings do change after a time, but, yes, there's always that little spark/ember of love somewhere inside. 




			
				Lisa  said:
			
		

> Awesome.
> I hope everyone finds what I have one day.


Just where does one find a Chew, Lisa?


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## Andy Moynihan (Feb 12, 2008)

Well normally, any sort of love/romantic post/thread during the Valentine's day period would draw one of my traditional responses on my feelings about the matter.

But in this case, there's enough positive thread going here that I won't spoil it (whaddaya want? One of the criteria of being a Heroic Cynical Curmudgeon is that you must, first of all, be a Cynical Curmudgeon, however heroic).

I'll leave the Valentine poem for my myspace.


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## Sukerkin (Feb 12, 2008)

Nicely said, *Cryo*.  Don't despair that things will never pan out for you either.  I passed 40 before I finally made it to 'that' relationship.  

As I've said elsewhere recently, I'd 'given up' for a decade or more and thought that tawdry, merely physical, encounters, that never lead anywhere emotionally meaningful, were my lot for life.

Then things changed and very quickly too.  Through none of my doing or design either, other than the fact that I went out more rather than staying at home.  That turned out to be the best advice I was ever given actually, even tho' it was something I already 'knew' intellectually i.e. "You'll never meet anyone staying in all the time.".


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## Rich Parsons (Feb 12, 2008)

Cryozombie said:


> Well, Ok, I believe I do have a date for Valentines Day... but Frye's quote is just so quotable this time of year.
> Since its the Big "V" on Thurdsay, here I sit on Tuesday morning, and I thought I'd share my insight into the big "L".  I don't mean Lesbian, but rather "Love".
> 
> Somthing I once read, which I think truely defines love is that Love is an Absolute quality, and that there can be no degrees of love... it is not possible to love someone a little more or a little less.  Now, I believe love is very much like a flower, and that you arent just "in love" (yes, that's right, I don't believe in love at first sight) but rather if a feeling is planted and tended to, it will grow, and bud, then flower... however unlike a flower, if it is truely love it will never wilt.  I don't think you can "fall out" of love... your feelings may change, but you will always love someone you have fallen in love with.  I honestly believe I have really been in love twice in my life, and the first person was someone I went to High School with.  We were the best of friends, but we never dated, never had an intimate relationship... But I can tell you to this day when she sends me emails telling me about how happy she is with her Husband, and her babies, that my heart soars.  It's an amazing thing, and I havn't seen her for at least 17 years.
> ...




I hope this does not take away from John's nice words.

I was going to wait until after 2/14/08 so as not to have the question raised about me not having a date and people thinking that I am hoping for nice words I am not. 

What I am is confused. 

Adam from the movie "Blast from the Past" says to Eve, "Is not Chet just another butt or hair" Meaning that is not this guy just something to look at and nothing of substance. 

We have hired in the last couple of years, a lot of young women in our engineering organization. This is good as there are more women in the field. But it is confusing. They fall into the following groups: 1) Already with someone (* Engaged/Married *), 2) Looking to get married yesterday as all their friends are married with kids (*Of this group there are two distinct sub-groups. 2a) Those that want to get married and stay home. 2b) The other who want to work from home and still some how make director by 30 or 35 Not just Manager *), 3) Those that are into their careers and not interested in relationships, 4) Those that insist the guy approach them and somehow read their mind that they like you (* See note below about dating at work *) and 5) The final group are those who are so large in their size that most of them out weigh me and are a foot shorter. 

(* Note: I would not date at work. I have seen to many times where break ups and divorces and the women say something and others take it to nth degree and the next thing one knows the guys is assumed to be a rapist and sexual assaulter. There is no way to keep your job if a man has asked a women out and she thinks it might be sexual harassment. Although, if she were to ask him out it would not be an issue, as she made the move. *)

Yes, I will address five (5) first. I guess I have an issue and do not find women attractive who have to take elevators as they cannot climb stairs and cannot do anything physical, nor have any desire. I know to some this seems shallow and would bring some to say it might cause confusion to women as to why I would not look here for friends as well. I do not have common interests with them. 

Item 4) As noted above the dating at work is not an issue for me as I would not. But for those who risk it. How are they supposed to know it is ok to ask a women out? I have lots of flirting in bars and at sporting events and at parties, and then one asks for a phone number and the other replies that they cannot as they have someone or some other excuse. This can happen to both genders, but in general guys make comments like, "I like your hair" Or "you Look nice" or some other compliment. They try to make ti known that they are interested. yet with women, who look at fashion and make comments like, "WOW! Rich, you look really snazy today." Am I supposed to assume she likes what I am wearing or that she is interested in me? In this case I know she is married and happy with her husband and children and she was just commenting on my tie and outfit. So, how are guys in corporate world to ask women out and know it is ok? I do not see a possible way to read her mind. 

Item 3) is not a real issue as they are not on the market. Which is ok for them. And it is fine and normal to be single and happy. I hope they are all happy. 

Item 1) are already with someone so they are off the market as well. I hope  that other would respect this as well. 

Item 2) Those of different ages, some with kids from previous relationships and others single and no kids. The confusing part are those that are at work only to meet a guy and then to stay home. I have some be happy with this. But I have seen many others have lots of problems as their income is not only one person and not dual income. This has been a major source of problems for the couples. I also have not found any of the women willing to work and have the husband stay home. But I know a lot of the husbands who would love to get away form the rat race. They understand that child care is serious business and not all play.  

Then there are those that want the kids the career and the whole thing. I wish the best, but I am confused by how they wish to be a person who is into their career, and work from home. I know some who work and go home to take care of their children. 

So the confusion I am having is how on one hand women want men to make all the moves and to read their minds. And on the other they want to be treated as equals (* and they should *) and have all the same opportunities. I would have thought that women would have been just fine with asking men out. With working and having the man stay home. With being able to pick up a tab. I know there are women out there that do this. I have meet many. But it is not more than half. It is confusing to me the double standard we have today. 

Personally I like it when a womens sells me a clue. Just many times she is a step or two in front of me and I have to try to catch up, which they take is disinterest, but is more just pure shock that someone is into me.  


So, with the Big V coming up and the discussion about the Big L I thought I would present this. 

I cannot date at work. I have tried dating services but most of the women want something more serious in a shorter time. I want more time to get to know each other and be sure. Meeting people at the bar is hard. The nice women who just happen to be out with their Girlfriends are not looking to be picked up even by the nice guys who just happen out with their friends. I know hobbies are good. But in the area I am in Martial Arts is predominately male. I have also gone through all the single friends of friends. 

I hope we can add to the discussion on Love. And meeting people. I like what John has stated. That it takes time. It takes care. Hence my desire to take time and work at it and not rush in.


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## Blindside (Feb 13, 2008)

Sorry Rich, I've got diddly for advice with women.  I sucked at dating myself, though I had lots of women friends that for some reason were platonic, then not platonic, then platonic again.  I enjoyed it, and managed to remain friends with many of them afterwords, but I never did the "go out and try to meet someone" gig.  

My wife and I met, and it wasn't love, it was a mess of hormones, lust, and sleep deprived nights cramming for finals.  Let's just ignore the fact that we were both seeing other people when we met.  About two months later the words "I love you" slipped out of my mouth.  Awkward, and a little weird for me, and she told me later that she was convinced we were just a summer fling thing.  Six years later I married her, and this summer we're coming up on our (OMG!) eighth wedding anniversery.

I think Heinlein defined it well:


> "Love is that condition in which the happiness of another person is essential to your own."


 
Lamont


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## Cryozombie (Feb 13, 2008)

Sukerkin said:


> Nicely said, *Cryo*. Don't despair that things will never pan out for you either.


 
Thanks... I'm not too worried about it... like I said, I have a date... Now, my Buddy Rich, there... he needs to find himself a woman...

Maybe we can take up a collection for the guy...


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## shesulsa (Feb 13, 2008)

Cryozombie said:


> Thanks... I'm not too worried about it... like I said, I have a date... Now, my Buddy Rich, there... he needs to find himself a woman...
> 
> Maybe we can take up a collection for the guy...


How many women are you trying to collect? :lol2:


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## MA-Caver (Feb 13, 2008)

shesulsa said:


> > Originally Posted by *Cryozombie *
> > Thanks... I'm not too worried about it... like I said, I have a date... Now, my Buddy Rich, there... he needs to find himself a woman...
> >
> > Maybe we can take up a collection for the guy...
> ...


:idea: Hey! better idea! How about a free pass to the LLR for a day! :uhyeah: 

:lfao:


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## Ceicei (Feb 13, 2008)

MA-Caver said:


> :idea: Hey! better idea! How about a free pass to the LLR for a day! :uhyeah:
> 
> :lfao:



UMMMMmmmm..... maybe for a select few.... I'll talk with Juan...


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## Langenschwert (Feb 13, 2008)

Cryozombie said:


> other people fail at "love" because they mistake their feelings for love


 
This is a key concept.  Feelings are largely just chemical reactions in your head, and aren't exactly "real", if you get my drift.  They don't necessarily reflect the inner nature of the relationship.  My last gf treated me like crap and used me, but I stayed because of my "feelings".  I should have told myself: "There's no crying in baseball!!!!" and moved on sooner.  But I didn't, so it's my fault and that's that.  Heck, my friends had an _intervention_ to get me out of that relationship!

I haven't made that mistake since.

To invoke a cliché, we probably all know a woman who's constantly dating jerks and we all comment to each other: "why is she with that guy?"  I'm the guy version of that kind of woman.  The crazier and more likely she is to maltreat me, the more likely it is that I'd date her.  Or rather, the more likely it _was_ that I'd date her.  No more.

This Valentine's day I'll be single, but I've got a date or two lined up in the next week or so.  And that's cool.  But one thing's for certain... I'm not going to mistake "feelings" for love again.

And let's not forget that Vali (whose holiday this originally was) is the archer god of vengeance.  Fine line between love and hate, indeed. 

Very best regards,

-Mark


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## MA-Caver (Feb 13, 2008)

Langenschwert said:


> This is a key concept.  Feelings are largely just chemical reactions in your head, and aren't exactly "real", if you get my drift.  They don't necessarily reflect the inner nature of the relationship.
> -Mark


W-wait, w-wh-what? Feelings aren't real? I'm afraid I don't get your drift. You're going to need to articulate that. Throughout all of my life, and I like to think that I'm a reasonably intelligent individual/human being, I've been aware of just how REAL my feelings are. I'm mentally trying to struggle with the concept that they're just chemically induced symptoms of what our brains are interpreting the signals the 5 senses are inputing. 
So umm tell me what causes the chemical that causes us to fall in love? Get mad, cry, feel moved at a sincere compliment? Become horrified at a car-crash? Just what chooses those chemicals and how? 
Dunno? Science hasn't found it yet? 
Uhh, look deeper. Because I believe it's not all "in the head".
How also does feelings NOT reflect the inner nature of the relationship? What is reflecting the inner nature? How one partner acts towards another? Ok, so why is one partner acting that way towards another?


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## Langenschwert (Feb 13, 2008)

MA-Caver said:


> W-wait, w-wh-what? Feelings aren't real? I'm afraid I don't get your drift. You're going to need to articulate that.


 
I'll see what I can do.



> Throughout all of my life, and I like to think that I'm a reasonably intelligent individual/human being, I've been aware of just how REAL my feelings are.


 
Just because you perceive something to be real doesn't mean that it is.



> I'm mentally trying to struggle with the concept that they're just chemically induced symptoms of what our brains are interpreting the signals the 5 senses are inputing.


 
That's exactly what I'm saying.  That doesn't mean they're not _useful_.  The feeling of "falling in love" is a mechanism that nature uses to ensure we reproduce.  It doesn't necessarily relate to the state of the relationship _at its core_.

Real, mature love is much different.  It isn't a feeling, it is a _choice_.  You can choose to love someone regardless of how you feel.  Love is a path to walk, like honour or courage.  Courage is doing what you know is right, even when you're afraid to.  Same thing with love.  True, if you _feel_ love for that person, you're more likely to act in a loving way than if you hate them.  However, you can feel love for someone and yet hurt them deeply through your actions.  You can feel love for someone yet not have their best interests at heart.  You just might love them for the way they make you feel, which is basically just a narcotic addiction.  You might feel jealousy for them, which is often a part of love, and yet is usually destructive.  If you love someone, how could you behave in such a way as to harm them?  But those feelings (how I hate that word) of love or jealousy have nothing to do with real, mature love.

"Feeling" is one of those words that really doesn't MEAN anything, much like "should", or "try".  If you say something "should" be some way, you're just saying "I'd prefer it if the situation was XYZ", except that it isn't, so you've accomplished nothing in the real world.  The same thing with feelings.  It's the entirely subjective reaction of your brain to stimulus.  If that stimulus helps stir you to action, well and good.  But the feeling of the state is not the state itself.



> So umm tell me what causes the chemical that causes us to fall in love?


 
Sorry, brain chemistry isn't my strong suit.  I'm a music major.   However, certain chemicals induce feelings of well-being (like THC).  Your brain is petri dish for chemicals to stew in, among other things.



> Just what chooses those chemicals and how?


 
Go read a book on brain chemistry.  I'm just a guy with a sword.



> How also does feelings NOT reflect the inner nature of the relationship? What is reflecting the inner nature? How one partner acts towards another? Ok, so why is one partner acting that way towards another?


 
See my comments above.  The feelings of love can be the catalyst for truly horrific behaviour.  Obviously, the feelings a certain individual has for a person can be at odds with one's behaviour.  Some people who murder their spouses still feel "love" for them.

I'm not saying the inner world of a person's experience isn't important.  But the feelings you experience are not necessarily reflective of the situation you're in.  They're only reflective of your perception of the situation.

Best regards,

-Mark


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## Rich Parsons (Feb 13, 2008)

shesulsa said:


> How many women are you trying to collect? :lol2:




Is saying I need money for a woman? 

Or is he saying that pieces of women women to be put together similar to the Bride of Frankenstein? I think this is more like it.  


BTW: Thanks Cryo for thinking of the collections plan.


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## Cryozombie (Feb 14, 2008)

Rich Parsons said:


> Is saying I need money for a woman?
> 
> Or is he saying that pieces of women women to be put together similar to the Bride of Frankenstein? I think this is more like it.
> 
> ...


\

I was thinking a collection of single women for you to choose from.

Or money for a realdoll... take your pick.


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## Rich Parsons (Feb 14, 2008)

Cryozombie said:


> \
> 
> I was thinking a collection of single women for you to choose from.
> 
> Or money for a realdoll... take your pick.



Women to choose from would be nice.

Real Dolls are real expensive though.


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## MA-Caver (Feb 14, 2008)

Rich Parsons said:


> Women to choose from would be nice.
> 
> Real Dolls are real expensive though.


Yeah but they won't gripe about your dirty socks on the bathroom floor.


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## Sukerkin (Feb 14, 2008)

Cherry 2000 anyone ?


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