# Society to blame for Obesity



## terryl965 (Nov 4, 2007)

Is our own society to blame for Obesity, is it the fault of all those all you can eat places where you can pay the same for all you want compared to buying a super size meal at McDonalds.

Has our own greed cost us the future of every child?

Do we have a chance to make a difference as long as we push for more and more?

Is there ever going to come a day we step in and say enough is enough.

Here in Texas 1 out of every 3 kids are overweight and it does not seem to brother most people, have we become to complacent with our society that we just do not care anymore?


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## JadecloudAlchemist (Nov 4, 2007)

Our society IMO has taken a split in sides. Those who are looking into other health choices and those who just eat what they want.
I really do not blame fast food for Obesity nor do I blame society.
Society like fast food can rant and rave with slogans and what not but it is up to the indivdualist to choose to go there, purchase it and consume it. I also see fast food looking more into healthier choices such as Bruger king's veggie burger and side dishes of fruits I do think this is more to cash in on the health craze but its a start. I also think reason we are so careless and alienated towards one another is we live in a Captialist market and I think that does effect us on some level about how we view others and their apperance and status compared to us.
But I do see within the last 20 years such an increase on healthier foods, Alternative medicines, forms of communication such as this forum.
I think in the next 20 years or so organic and naturalism will merged closer with cyber and electronics but that is my Sci-fi movie script


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## MBuzzy (Nov 4, 2007)

terryl965 said:


> Is our own society to blame for Obesity, is it the fault of all those all you can eat places where you can pay the same for all you want compared to buying a super size meal at McDonalds.
> 
> Has our own greed cost us the future of every child?
> 
> ...


 
I feel that the choices out there are simply a function of what people buy.  If people didn't BUY McDonald's, it wouldn't be there.  The corporations are giving the population what they want - fast, easy, fairly cheap food that tastes good.

I was watching the Tyra Banks show the other day with my wife and it was about Body image.  It brought up a good point in my mind.  I think that society's biggest negative influence is that it is ok to be overweight.  I'm mainly talking about the extremely obese.  Talking about it, bringing it up, etc is a taboo subject.  It is ok to tell someone that they are too skinny, but if you even MENTION someone's weight, you can literally be taken to court.  We are more concerned about people's feelings than their well being.  There are people who are extremely overweight, on the dangerous side (don't work out, have no concern for what they eat, etc) who feel perfectly fine about it.  Now it is great to be comfortable with the body that you live in, but you should also be willing to deal with the consequences.  In our society, consequences don't matter...people just do it without thought.  

For example, I KNOW that my eating habits are bad.  I eat too much fat and cholesterol, therefore I work out a lot to offset that....but at the same time, I will not be the least bit surprised if I end up with high blood pressure or high cholesterol later in life.  I'm ready for it and I'm thinking about it at least a little bit.

I also see our future weighed down with EVEN MORE get skinny quick schemes.  There are more eating disorders that haven't been discovered yet.  Americans just want a pill to take to make it better....so in terms of our future, I think that we will just continue to look for science to replace our bad habits.


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## morph4me (Nov 4, 2007)

Blaming society for anything is tantamount to giving up our personal responsibility. If we are going to blame society then we would have the right to expect society to do something to protect us, and I for one, don't want society responsible for me. I'll take responsiblity for myself and accept the consequences of my actions and decisions.


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## Kacey (Nov 4, 2007)

People buy fast food because it is cheap and convenient - not because it is good for you.  There have been lots of studies that point out that convenience food - from both restaurants and grocery stores - are, as a group, lower in nutrition, and higher in calories, fat, preservatives, and generally anything that is bad for you.  Still, people buy them _because_ they are convenient.

After years of doing just that myself, I decided it was time to change something.  About 6 months ago, I started buying food that was less processed - more fresh fruits and vegetables, whole grain bread, nuts to snack on instead of candy - the less processing, the better.  I quit drinking diet soda, and went back to drinking water instead - bottled water is a lot cheaper than soda, and just as convenient.  When I go out to eat, I go to restaurants that serve fresh-cooked foods instead of fast food.  When I cook (which is most of the time) I will bake, broil, or slow-cook foods that I used to fry or drench in butter or fatty sauces - and they're just as good, and often better.  I've quit eating so much pasta, and when I do eat it, I try to use at least a 50/50 mix of the whole grain pasta (I'm still getting used to the taste and texture).  Sometimes I'll buy precut vegetables, for the convenience - but they're still a lot better for me than what I used to snack on.  Without changing much else, I've lost 16 pounds - and more, it's stayed off, and more is coming off - and it's been pretty painless, and no more expensive or time-consuming than buying "convenience" foods.


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## Cryozombie (Nov 4, 2007)

If I can play devils advocate here for a second... while I do think individual choice plays a big role in a lot of this, there ARE social considerations as well...

Imagine a single person, living in a... moderatley priced city or town, trying to make ends meet on their own.  Now, lets take this even a step further, and suggest this person is also quite possibly still in school, trying to get their degree or next degree, because, lets face it, the job market isn't exactly overly friendly.

So maybe this person, to get by is working full time and going to school full or part time... or perhaps they are not in school but working 2 or even 3 jobs in order to pay a moderate rent, plus utilities, probably a car loan or credit card bills, gas or public transportation fees... you know the expenses of living.  So this person gets up at 5:30 in the morning to get to the train or on the expressway to work, works their 9-5, commutes home, changes clothes, heads to class or the second job, and gets in at 9 or 10.  

I know people who this is a reality for... and even if it's not YOU... it does happen.  So yeah, the person can spend some time then preping meals, packaging them, and take them with and heat them in the company microwave if the have the option.  But realistically, isn't it easeir and more convient to grab that Cereal Bar in the morning, eat some 99c value menu crap for lunch, maybe grab somthing at home between jobs/classes but more likely you are grabbing a snack when you gas up, or out of the vending machine... 

Obesity is not society's fault, but in a world of rising costs, less and less time not devoted to a boss or a job, issues of most work not being a 9-5 monday thru friday issue anymore, but a 24 hour "convienence" service most places, cities like Chicago who have a higher tax on bottled water than they do on Pepsi, Choices of a 99c double bacon cheeseburger vs a 75c orange from Quickie Mart... Or for that matter a 99c GreaseBurger vs a $4.99 "healthy choice" item from the same fast food place... society isn't at fault, but it's not always 100% *blameless* either.


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## grydth (Nov 4, 2007)

Blaming society for my diving into another box of Hostess Cupcakes is a tempting proposition... wow, I can tear through some more two packs and I'm not responsible!  By all means, go hold somebody else, everyone else, to blame. Let's eat!!!

Wonder how many see the trap they are falling into? Probably not enough.....

Abdicating personal responsibility is soooooo tempting......But if my chubbiness is society's fault, then indeed it is society's responsibility to save me from myself and my free choices... Soon, led by some farsighted leaders (demigods, really)  society will set forth to save us from burgers, fries and chocolate cupcakes filled with creme. Regulate here, tax there, ban everywhere.... society will prepare our brave new culinary world for us. The kool-aide will be prima!:barf:

As Hillary recently put it, "There will be carrots, _and some sticks_...."  I believe her, yes this time  I absolutely do. 

Soon the government will be telling all of you what to eat, and even deciding what's available for you to consume here in the LAND OF THE FREE.  At least you won't be to blame for anything, though. Sheeple never are.


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## newGuy12 (Nov 4, 2007)

grydth said:


> Blaming society for my diving into another box of Hostess Cupcakes is a tempting proposition... wow, I can tear through some more two packs and I'm not responsible!  *By all means, go hold somebody else, everyone else, to blame. Let's eat!!!*



Hahahahaha!!!

This is what I do, I eat at a Subway restaurant.  Now, no, I do not own stock in Subway, and I'm not trying to get others to do as I do.  

I used to work in a Subway restaurant.  I know that they cut all of the vegetables up themselves and so on.

I eat a footlong sandwich with all of the vegetables except for the olives and jalepenos.  I get some vinegar and oil dressing.  There's no cheese or meat or chicken or anything, so its very good.

I eat that, and, Man, I am ready to go!  No problem.  Now, also, fruit is very tasty.  Grapes, bananas.  

Try to eat some kimchi as a side dish, because it is very healthy.

Then, you go to your school, and you do not practice as a child does.  No, you practice with powerful motions, you punch and kick as though you mean it.  You push through some tired feelings.  In this way, we enjoy a healthy lifestyle!!!

And, yes, DO NOT TRUST YOUR GOVERNMENT!  THEY DO NOT HAVE YOUR BEST INTEREST AT HEART AND THEY ARE LAME, NOT TO BE TRUSTED!


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## Kacey (Nov 4, 2007)

Well, remembering all too well the time when catsup was considered a vegetable by school cafeterias - yes, I would say that _some _of the problem is, indeed, societal - both because food that is bad for you is often cheap (and often for the same reason that it is bad for you) and because, while our society values fitness, it also encourages a tightly-packed life that leaves little time for eating right and exercising.

And then there's the whole "who else can I blame" mentality that leads to so many lawsuits of absurd proportions... like the one filed on behalf of overweight teens against McDonald's (by someone who tried - and failed - to file a similar lawsuit on behalf of overweight adults), on the theory that teens are unable to make healthy choices in the face of massive advertising.  If you are able to blame society for your obesity, then you don't have to accept responsibility for becoming obese in the first place, nor for losing weight.


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## kuntawguro (Nov 4, 2007)

here in Michigan I think a bartender that continues to serve you after you are wasted can be held somewhat liable in case you crash your vehicle. i think the same thing should happen at  an all you can eat  restaurant or even at a mom and pop's restaurant.
 "YOU, with the  double helping of mashed potatoes, step away from the dumplings!"


 What really gets me are the people who  order  fried chicken, extra french fries,  and then they get a diet coke- as if that is gonna make a difference.


( hopefully you will see the humor)


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## MBuzzy (Nov 4, 2007)

kuntawguro said:


> here in Michigan I think a bartender that continues to serve you after you are wasted can be held somewhat liable in case you crash your vehicle. i think the same thing should happen at an all you can eat restaurant or even at a mom and pop's restaurant.
> "YOU, with the double helping of mashed potatoes, step away from the dumplings!"
> 
> 
> What really gets me are the people who order fried chicken, extra french fries, and then they get a diet coke- as if that is gonna make a difference.


 
This is one that I have to respectfully disagree with.  Keeping someone from getting too intoxicated to drive and possibly killing another person is a bit different than trying to keep someone from eating too much.  Everyone's metabolism is different.  Some people can eat anything they want, some can't eat a peanut without gaining a pound.  Also, I'm one of the people that orders the fried chicken, mashed potatoes and a diet coke...but I just like diet coke.  

Society may have some responsibility for the obesity of americans, but individuals have to take the final blame.  It shouldn't be the server, but the person ordering who makes those judgement calls.  People just don't make the right decisions.  Myself included.  When I'm at the counter at McDonalds, I pick the cheeseburger instead of the salad every time.  If we EVER move into the realm of regulated eating.....I'm moving.


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## grydth (Nov 4, 2007)

Here's another daring proposition: 

Suppose an individual could care less if they are what some would term "obese".  Suppose they are perfectly happy and content in a world of work, junk food and video games? Suppose they'd prefer another bacon double cheeseburger to another lap around a track? Suppose they'd prefer a large chocolate shake to soy milk, would eschew tofu for pizza, and their palates savor extra fires over escargo? Suppose <gasp> they even want a cigarette afterwards?

What business is it of any of yours? What business is it of the government's?

How about the person lives their life and you live yours?

IMHO, The biggest public health threat we face today is a government that won't LEAVE ME THE **** ALONE!  :soapbox:


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## Kacey (Nov 4, 2007)

grydth said:


> Here's another daring proposition:
> 
> Suppose an individual could care less if they are what some would term "obese".  Suppose they are perfectly happy and content in a world of work, junk food and video games? Suppose they'd prefer another bacon double cheeseburger to another lap around a track? Suppose they'd prefer a large chocolate shake to soy milk, would eschew tofu for pizza, and their palates savor extra fires over escargo? Suppose <gasp> they even want a cigarette afterwards?
> 
> ...



If only it were so simple... but the above person's health issues affect his/her insurance rates, either through private or public health care, and therefore affects _my_ rates as well, either in my own premiums or through my taxes - and therefore it affects me, financially and also in terms of access to health care, as the above person, when s/he becomes ill as a result or as an adjunct to the weight issues, takes up time/space/personnel that are then not available for others.

Is it fair?  Probably not.  Is it right?  Also probably not.  Is it the way things go at the moment?  Yeah... sadly, it is.


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## grydth (Nov 4, 2007)

There is virtually no act that you take, no area of endeavor that may not be said to affect the hive as a whole. The above post, though accurately reflecting modern thought, means that every intimate aspect of your life may be dictated and regulated.... I guess "insurance costs" has replaced "for the children" as the (ir)rationale for invading our lives.

In one way it is that simple: Either you make the decisions about your life or a government hack makes them for you.


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## Rich Parsons (Nov 4, 2007)

terryl965 said:


> Is our own society to blame for Obesity, is it the fault of all those all you can eat places where you can pay the same for all you want compared to buying a super size meal at McDonalds.
> 
> Has our own greed cost us the future of every child?
> 
> ...




I understand the cost of food and that some have to make choices on what they by so buying normal hamburger versus the ultra lean at 91+% for more money at the grocery store. Yet, when one goes out and this includes fast food, we make a choice on where to eat. We could eat at a sub place or a salad or control the amount we place in front of us. 

I think there is a choice we make we we eat. 

I understand being a young male and growing over night and never being full. But I also understand or understood that  I could not eat  two large pizza's by myself all my life. My Dad told me about stories of him eating a turkey plater full of spaghetti and eating more. But he could not eat when I was listening to the story. It is nice to let people know that over eating is not the solution.

What also happens is conditioned responses, of someone feeding you when you are sad or upset or down or hurt or what have you. So later a person eats to feel better.

Another condition is that the person enjoys that euphoria from feeling full.  So one continues to eat to feel better. 

So balming society is much in my opinion. Blaming oneself I agree. Looking at the way one was raised for bad habits, and understanding that parents in general would not have wished to harm anyone,  and learning from this and moving forward, but as an adult the responibility needs to be with the person.


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## Skip Cooper (Nov 4, 2007)

kuntawguro said:


> What really gets me are the people who order fried chicken, extra french fries, and then they get a diet coke- as if that is gonna make a difference.


 

You gotta cut back somewhere


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## Skip Cooper (Nov 4, 2007)

After reading all of this, I think I'll go out and get a Big Mac, large fries, and a large strawberry shake...thanks alot guys! I should blame martialtalk for my obesity.


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## terryl965 (Nov 5, 2007)

I believe society has to step in at sometimes and make certain people a ware of the potential problem.

Here is one of my concerns our school district took away the candy and soda pops, for they are not healthy but yet they let pizza hut or burger king set up shop in the cafeteria, what type of rules are they giving us.
Also the elementary school does not allow coolies cake chips or pop, but yet the PTA and other groups sell this stuff everyday in the hallways during lunch and afterschool. Where does that make any sense.


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## morph4me (Nov 5, 2007)

terryl965 said:


> I believe society has to step in at sometimes and make certain people a ware of the potential problem.
> 
> Here is one of my concerns our school district took away the candy and soda pops, for they are not healthy but yet they let pizza hut or burger king set up shop in the cafeteria, what type of rules are they giving us.
> Also the elementary school does not allow coolies cake chips or pop, but yet the PTA and other groups sell this stuff everyday in the hallways during lunch and afterschool. Where does that make any sense.


 
WOW! Talk about your mixed messages. In this particular case I'd say that the school is at fault and somebody should bring it to the attention of the school board. Kkids will go for crap over healthy foods 9 times out of 10, but after a certain age the responsiblity falls on the individual. 

Blaming society for my obesity is like blaming my teacher for my failing grades, even though I never did any work and cut classes most of the time. The teacher is responsible for teaching me, but can only do it if I show up and do the work. The choices an individual makes may be limited by availability of alternates or other factors, but ultimately they are individual decisions, not society's.


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## terryl965 (Nov 5, 2007)

Morph I agree and have bought this to there attention and there exact words well pizza hut brings in over a million dollars a year to the district in sponsordhip and lease payments. That kinds of kill that and the PTA is this is all the kids will spend money on. So it is a double edge sword that cannot be removed or they feel it will kill there funding. What a load of crap.


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## morph4me (Nov 5, 2007)

terryl965 said:


> Morph I agree and have bought this to there attention and there exact words well pizza hut brings in over a million dollars a year to the district in sponsordhip and lease payments. That kinds of kill that and the PTA is this is all the kids will spend money on. So it is a double edge sword that cannot be removed or they feel it will kill there funding. What a load of crap.


 
So the school board and PTA are trading on the kids health for profit.  You should tell the PTA that you want to sell fireworks and knives, bet the kids would buy those too.


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## Cryozombie (Nov 5, 2007)

kuntawguro said:


> What really gets me are the people who  order  fried chicken, extra french fries,  and then they get a diet coke- as if that is gonna make a difference.



I know this was a joke, but I hear it a lot so Im gonna address it here... I cant speak for anyone else, but I often, if ordering soda with a meal order diet... its not because I expect it to be healthy... but pop has a LOT of refined sugar in it, and I try and stay away from a lot of really sweet refined sugars.  No captain crunch, no hohos, very very little candy, black coffee... I stay away from raw sugars - I get enough of those in beer.

Which leads me to another "Social" issue.  We as american males are pre-programed drinkers.  Watchin Sports?  Cant do it without drinking! Wanna Socialize?  Meet me at the bar! etc etc... Beer is great for makin you fat.  Which is sad because as a HomeBrewer I LOVE beer.  I make beer and I drink Beer.  

But I also try to be more moderate in my beer intake than in my past, but I tell you... it is DAMN hard to convince friends to meet me for Coffee.  They wanna go to the bar.  Plus the restaruants around here frown on you hanging out all night just drinking coffee, but a bar doesnt care how long you sit there.


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## rmclain (Nov 5, 2007)

Hi Terry,

Yes, this PTA being allowed to sell that stuff seems hypocritical on the part of the school.

This school example is where it is so important for parents to educate kids from an early age to eat sensibly and understanding how to make good food choices.  This example should be set by the parents as an example and reinforced constantly.  It is learned at home and can be reinforced at home.  I know several parents who started this when their kids were very young (2 years of age) and at 10 years of age it is amazing the choices these kids make when out at a restaurant or during activities for snacks.  Of course, kids will be kids and some will sneak snacks. I know that I did.  

I also know from experience that when I stop eating sugary snacks, sodas, and fast food for an extended period of time, I really lose an interest in them and they are almost a repulsion.

I think it is the individual's choice on what to eat and how to treat their bodies.

R. McLain




terryl965 said:


> I believe society has to step in at sometimes and make certain people a ware of the potential problem.
> 
> Here is one of my concerns our school district took away the candy and soda pops, for they are not healthy but yet they let pizza hut or burger king set up shop in the cafeteria, what type of rules are they giving us.
> Also the elementary school does not allow coolies cake chips or pop, but yet the PTA and other groups sell this stuff everyday in the hallways during lunch and afterschool. Where does that make any sense.


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## CoryKS (Nov 5, 2007)

Kacey said:


> If only it were so simple... but the above person's health issues affect his/her insurance rates, either through private or public health care, and therefore affects _my_ rates as well, either in my own premiums or through my taxes - and therefore it affects me, financially and also in terms of access to health care, as the above person, when s/he becomes ill as a result or as an adjunct to the weight issues, takes up time/space/personnel that are then not available for others.
> 
> Is it fair? Probably not. Is it right? Also probably not. Is it the way things go at the moment? Yeah... sadly, it is.


 
And this right here is one of the reasons why a lot of us are opposed to any kind of socialized medicine or health care.  It's like the mafia - once they've done you a favor, now you owe them.  "Sure, we'll pay for your coverage.  Now we'd like to have a talk about the way you're living your life.  For starters, you'll have to wear seat belts.  And motorcycle helmets.  And do you really think you need that bacon cheeseburger?  "

So maybe the solution is not to start browbeating people for their eating habits, but to let them deal with the consequences themselves.


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## Phoenix44 (Nov 7, 2007)

As I mentioned on another thread, 25% of incoming kindergarterners in NYC are obese.  The NYC Commissioner of Health said, "If the trend continues as is, in 10 years the complications of obesity will completely overwhelm the public health system."

It's not just about one individual eating a Big Mac.


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## RED (Nov 7, 2007)

Cryozombie said:


> Which leads me to another "Social" issue. We as american males are pre-programed drinkers. Watchin Sports? Cant do it without drinking! Wanna Socialize? Meet me at the bar! etc etc... Beer is great for makin you fat. Which is sad because as a HomeBrewer I LOVE beer. I make beer and I drink Beer.


 

Well you are in luck...Beer is healthy for you. The average beer has no fat, no cholesterol, and around a 150 calories. Beer has vitamins and protien and carbohydrates. And it is mostly water. Guiness' had an advertising campain a while back that proposed that you "drink it for health". New studies show that a beer is better for you than water after a work out. It was the prohibition fanatics in the late 1800's that eventually made the government step in and control the general population with prohibition, that gave beer a bad rap. We all know the ill affects this step towards communism brought us. Should the government be to blame for fat kids...IMO...I don't think so. Should Mc Donald's be held acountable ...no. People need to be responsible for thier own actions and choices. I feel the same way about cigarettes. And even about the tennis elbow I've developed...damn Playboy.


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