# Yang Cheng Fu said WHAT?



## grydth (Feb 23, 2007)

On another thread (Yang and Chen are Different, Post 27), one of the major figures of Yang style Tai Chi, Yang Cheng Fu, was quoted as saying," That is it. It cannot be improved upon. To change one thing would be to lose the essence of the form."

Without in any way intending to question the integrity of the MT member who posted that, I would ask for a source for the quote. I had never heard of it, and frankly it comes as a surprise.

So first, I would like to determine - if we can - the accuracy of the quote. If it is mistaken, there is nothing more to discuss. 

If it is accurate, then I would like to move on to discuss opinions on it.


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## Xue Sheng (Feb 23, 2007)

Just so those posting know the source of this

It started here
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41433&page=2

And covered a bit more here
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41433&page=3

Not that a new thread cannot be started I just think people should know the source of this that is all.


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## grydth (Feb 23, 2007)

I trust it is common knowledge here that one cannot even see or respond to posts from those on one's ignore list.

This is a wonderful feature. 

 With a forum this large and diversified, there is plenty of room for everyone. Certain people need never encounter each other.


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## dmax999 (Feb 24, 2007)

I have seen that exact same quote before.  I believe it was in the book "Tai Chi Classics".  I can't find my copy to confirm that though.

The poster was not making up the quote.  However, I will not make the claim that the qoute in the book was correct either.


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## grydth (Feb 24, 2007)

I certainly do not believe the MT member in question would make up or distort a quote. 

However, I have seen enough superficial books, and enough poorly done magazine articles, to convince me to ask for sources when a quote seems odd for the historical figure in question. 

Also, there is no shortage of barely concealed hostilty within some martial arts' factions. I always want to know if the author of the source material quoted is working off an agenda. I personally have just read a couple recent articles which involve Yang Cheng Fu which just do not seem right to me, at least in part.

If your hunch plays out, please let us know. Thank you!


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## East Winds (Feb 24, 2007)

As I was the orignal poster of this quote and so far have been unable to trace the original material, I must declare the quote unsustainable. I will continue my quest.

Here IS a sustainable quote from Yang Cheng-fu which if not the same, cetainly contains the spirit of the original quote :- "_There is only one school of T'ai Chi Ch'uan; there are not two methods. Don't be deluded by your own cleverness and foolishly make additions or deletions. If modifications were necessary in the methods laid down by worthy men of the past, then these would have been implemented during many centuiries from the Yuan and Ming dynsaties down to the present. Did these modifications need to wait for our own generation?_" 
This quote is from an impecable source; Douglas Wile : Tai Chi Touchstones : Yang Family Secret Transmissions" ISBN0-912059-01-X

It is interesting to speculate why Yang Cheng-fu would feel it necessary to make such a remark. 

I would also be interested in knowing about these "agendas" and what their purpose is?

Very best wishes


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## grydth (Feb 24, 2007)

Thank you, and I have that excellent book in my home library as well.

Here's what I suggest for clarity : As we don't have a source for the original quote, let's close out of this thread. If somebody locates one, it can be revived and we can return.

The quote above by Eastwinds is worth a discussion on its own merits. If that MT member would start a new thread on it, I'd be happy to join.

I have those magazine articles I mentioned, and I may start a new thread(s). One or both of these writers I feel was writing with an agenda.

 When I refer to a book or article author as writing with an 'agenda', I mean an author who is writing for purposes other than simply spreading knowledge... they may be making a lineage claim or challenge, they may be asserting cerdit for a form or claiming their art is better. (One sees this frequently in military history: Who killed the Red Baron? Who shot down Admiral Yamamoto? Whose fault was the Stalingrad debacle?)

One final thing - I would hope nobody feels I have attacked them or questioned their honesty. To me, that is not something you do by veiled  hints or cute comments. If I ever do that, there will be no doubt about what I am asserting. I am not doing it here. I return best wishes to each of you.


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## Xue Sheng (Feb 24, 2007)

grydth said:


> I trust it is common knowledge here that one cannot even see or respond to posts from those on one's ignore list.
> 
> This is a wonderful feature.
> 
> With a forum this large and diversified, there is plenty of room for everyone. Certain people need never encounter each other.


 


Although it is common knowledge it does not mean that I cannot reply to a post should I so desire. I suspect that it means you choose not to read what I have written and therefore I would suspect you would refrain from responding as well.

The post was for those that followed that is all.


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## grydth (Feb 24, 2007)

Please see Post #3.


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## Xue Sheng (Feb 25, 2007)

grydth said:


> Please see Post #3.


 
I did, and I can still answer in any post I wish and I absolutely guarantee you whether or not I am on your ignore list matters not. If you post a Taiji topic I am very likely to respond.

Please check your reps I responded there to the previous post. It was a good rep too.


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## Jade Tigress (Feb 26, 2007)

*ATTENTION ALL USERS:

Please, keep the conversation polite and respectful.

Pamela Piszczek
MT Super Moderator
*


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