# United Studios of Self Defense and Z-Ultimate - Where have they gone?



## MADENVER (Jul 30, 2018)

This is the weirdest thing. As background, I was involved in United Studios of Self Defense in the 90's, and have been involved in Z-Ultimate recently. Both in Colorado ( I'd rather not say exactly where. )

It was my understanding that in the late 90's ( before the lineage split ) United Studios of Self Defense had around 160 some schools nationwide. I left them for awhile after that, and I understand that the lineage split happened around 2011. I came back after that, to find Z-Ultimate here in Colorado, with all the USSD schools gone, or turned into Z-Ultimate. 

I won't get into the whole mess and why it happened, because I understand there are two sides to the story and it's debatable, and I don't want to fan the flames of that, which I understand is pretty over with now anyway.

But here's the weird thing. I understood that USSD started on the east and west coasts. I recall hearing that Master Taylor was from Connecticut? ( please correct me if I'm wrong. ) So out of curiosity, I just searched for each school on Google Maps, zooming to see the entire U.S., and then refreshing the search. Here's a screen shot of each, that I found.












Now as far as those USSD locations shown in Colorado, to the best of my knowledge, USSD doesn't have any schools in Colorado anymore. So they must have purposely not removed them as locations, from Google Maps. But I'm shocked at how few Z-Ultimate locations there are, and they've been closing schools in Colorado too, and apparently leaving them listed as locations on Google Maps. 

So what really shocks me, is that both of these schools seem to be disappearing, since the 90's. Can anyone verify that? I know I've heard of several Z-Ultimate schools closing in Colorado since I've been back, and they seem to keep leaving them on Google Maps - possibly so as not to give the impression that they are slowly closing down.

So does anyone "in the know" know what's happening with these two schools since the 90's? It's sad to see, for someone whose been involved in both, and is still involved in Z-Ultimate. But the class sizes have been dwindling down since I've been back, and it's troubling. It used to be such a decent school.


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## hoshin1600 (Jul 31, 2018)

This is the second thread you started with the same basic premise.  Forum sights like this one usually have the a small group of people who participate on a regular basis.  It is doubtful you will get anymore or different information then you did on your other post from last week.

What you are describing is nothing new.  In the 1980s here in massachusetts  there was a kempo school on every corner.   It was rare to find a martial art school that wasn't kempo.  By 1990 all the chain schools had broken away and went independent trying to shake the McDojo label. By 2000 they were for the most part gone.  They didn't fail due to bad business practices,vthey went under due to a lack of interested consumers.
I can understand the nostalgia but times change. Rock and rolls is dieing too but all I can do is put on my Led Zeppelin records and remember the good old days.


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## Steve (Jul 31, 2018)

Rock and roll is dying?  They say the heart of rock and roll is still beating.  And from what ive seen, I believe them.


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## Tames D (Jul 31, 2018)

Steve said:


> Rock and roll is dying?  They say the heart of rock and roll is still beating.  And from what ive seen, I believe them.


So you're a little bit older and a lot less bolder...  but you can always come back baby, cuz rock n roll never forgets...


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## JR 137 (Jul 31, 2018)

Steve said:


> Rock and roll is dying?  They say the heart of rock and roll is still beating.  And from what ive seen, I believe them.





Tames D said:


> So you're a little bit older and a lot less bolder...  but you can always come back baby, cuz rock n roll never forgets...



You can't even sing or play an instrument, so you just scream instead.  You're living for an image, so you got five hundred women in your bed. 
Rock n Roll is dead.


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## Gerry Seymour (Jul 31, 2018)

You are all just...ah, never mind...

Rock is deader than dead 
Shock is all in your head 
Your sex and your dope is all that were fed


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## MADENVER (Jul 31, 2018)

Thanks for hijacking the thread guys. Take care...


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## Tames D (Jul 31, 2018)

MADENVER said:


> Thanks for hijacking the thread guys. Take care...


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## JR 137 (Jul 31, 2018)

MADENVER said:


> Thanks for hijacking the thread guys. Take care...


You’re welcome.  Thanks for essentially starting the same thread twice.  You know, in case we wanted to read it more than once.

But on a more serious note, threads get sidetracked quite often on forums.  You could complain, but I don’t think anyone’s going to do anything about it.  Just the nature of the medium.  Don’t fight it, embrace it.

We’re all stars now, in the dope show.

Come on, you know you want to include some lyrics too


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## hoshin1600 (Aug 1, 2018)

People say I'm crazy
Doing what I'm doing
Well, they give me all kinds of warnings
To save me from ruin
When I say that I'm okay, well they look at me kinda strange
"Surely, you're not happy now, you no longer play the game"

People say I'm lazy
Dreaming my life away
Well they give me all kinds of advice
Designed to enlighten me
When I tell them that I'm doing fine watching shadows on the wall
Don't you miss the big time boy, you're no longer on the ball


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## hoshin1600 (Aug 1, 2018)

If you think rock is not dead, let the fact that most of these quotes are over 30 years old, sink in.

But back to karate schools.....
Sometimes you can't be stuck in the 1980s. Gotta keep up with the fads.  This could actually be a serious thread on business practices.


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## Gerry Seymour (Aug 1, 2018)

hoshin1600 said:


> If you think rock is not dead, let the fact that most of these quotes are over 30 years old, sink in.
> 
> But back to karate schools.....
> Sometimes you can't be stuck in the 1980s. Gotta keep up with the fads.  This could actually be a serious thread on business practices.


Does that mean rock is dead, or that we are old?


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## Gerry Seymour (Aug 1, 2018)

hoshin1600 said:


> If you think rock is not dead, let the fact that most of these quotes are over 30 years old, sink in.
> 
> But back to karate schools.....
> Sometimes you can't be stuck in the 1980s. Gotta keep up with the fads.  This could actually be a serious thread on business practices.


Wait, did you just re-swerve us?? Damnit. Now, if I'm going to keep up my habit of participatory hijacking, I have to get back on topic.

Yeah, there's a reason so many long-standing companies have changed their logo, tag line, and even product offerings over time. What played well to consumers 30 years ago doesn't always play to them today.


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## hoshin1600 (Aug 1, 2018)

gpseymour said:


> Yeah, there's a reason so many long-standing companies have changed their logo, tag line, and even product offerings over time. What played well to consumers 30 years ago doesn't always play to them today.


McDonalds as an example for a time corporate was requiring franchises have an exterior paint scheme of red, yellow and white. 





but not anymore today they are going for the more modern StarBucks look in order to compete.


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## MADENVER (Aug 1, 2018)

Wish I could delete these two threads, but don't see a way. Can the admins do it?


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## pdg (Aug 1, 2018)

MADENVER said:


> Wish I could delete these two threads, but don't see a way. Can the admins do it?



They _can_, but whether they _will_ is a different matter...

Why do you want them deleted anyway, because they didn't go the way you wanted?

What happens when you go out with a group of friends, do you always stay strictly on topic in conversation and does everyone sit in silence every time you leave the table? That'd be a dull night out...


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## MADENVER (Aug 1, 2018)

Because no one really answered the questions and concerns I had, and you guys are just messing around. With "friends" like this....


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## pdg (Aug 1, 2018)

MADENVER said:


> Because no one really answered the questions and concerns I had, and you guys are just messing around. With "friends" like this....



You got pretty much all the answers you were ever going to get across the two threads...

After that, it's normal that it becomes a table at a pub - the conversation wanders until everyone goes home to bed.


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## Gerry Seymour (Aug 1, 2018)

hoshin1600 said:


> McDonalds as an example for a time corporate was requiring franchises have an exterior paint scheme of red, yellow and white.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


And a similar progression for Hardees. Back in the day, it was mostly about fast, fairly cheap burgers. Now a bunch of different chains offer variations from fast/cheap (5 Guys) to "interesting" variations (Smashburger), and more. Very different landscape.


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## Gerry Seymour (Aug 1, 2018)

MADENVER said:


> Wish I could delete these two threads, but don't see a way. Can the admins do it?


Why?


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## Gerry Seymour (Aug 1, 2018)

MADENVER said:


> Because no one really answered the questions and concerns I had, and you guys are just messing around. With "friends" like this....


Actually, the discussion about business landscape is directly related to your OP.


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## Tames D (Aug 1, 2018)

MADENVER said:


> With "friends" like this....


Who said we're friends?


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## FireWalker (Sep 12, 2018)

the branch that is in quebec province in canada, called Studios Unis d'auto Défense in french, is still alive in well, thought it did split from villari in 1985 to join cerio's organization so 45 schools and 8000 students in nick cerio's kenpo in canada, so it is certainly not dying everywhere, i started a thread about this, it's being moderated


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## Buka (Sep 12, 2018)

FireWalker said:


> the branch that is in quebec province in canada, called Studios Unis d'auto Défense in french, is still alive in well, thought it did split from villari in 1985 to join cerio's organization so 45 schools and 8000 students in nick cerio's kenpo in canada, so it is certainly not dying everywhere, i started a thread about this, it's being moderated



Really good to hear this. And welcome to MartialTalk, FireWalker, hope you like it.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Sep 12, 2018)

FireWalker said:


> the branch that is in quebec province in canada, called Studios Unis d'auto Défense in french, is still alive in well, thought it did split from villari in 1985 to join cerio's organization so 45 schools and 8000 students in nick cerio's kenpo in canada, so it is certainly not dying everywhere, i started a thread about this, it's being moderated


I didn't see a thread from you. is it on martialtalk, or a different website?


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## FireWalker (Sep 12, 2018)

it's awaiting moderation right now, in the same forum section than this thread


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## FireWalker (Sep 12, 2018)

Thanks for the warm welcome, are you guys practicing Kenpo ?


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Sep 12, 2018)

FireWalker said:


> Thanks for the warm welcome, are you guys practicing Kenpo ?


I have in the past, for around 20 years. Stopped recently, but still interested in the history. Introduce yourself on the meet&greet section, so we can get to know you a bit better!


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## JR 137 (Sep 12, 2018)

gpseymour said:


> Does that mean rock is dead, or that we are old?


Both. 

BTW, how did I miss this one?  Combination of my old geezer eyes and listening to rock that died out a long time ago, I guess.


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## Buka (Sep 13, 2018)

FireWalker said:


> Thanks for the warm welcome, are you guys practicing Kenpo ?



I train American Karate. But I've been in and around Kenpo on a part time basis for a loooooong time.
I liked Nick Cerio, liked his students, too.


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## Gerry Seymour (Sep 24, 2018)

FireWalker said:


> Thanks for the warm welcome, are you guys practicing Kenpo ?


I don't train in anything related to Kempo, but have met some folks who do, and attended seminars. All of which has no bearing on my reasons for being in this thread - I just like talking about martial arts with folks who know stuff about martial arts. I don't really care which art it is.


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