# Bizarre: dead robber gets the public sympathy



## Bruno@MT (Dec 6, 2010)

This happend nearby.
A 15 year old robber in a jeweler shop scares the wife and daughter. The jeweler shoots him with 1 shot, gets questioned for a couple of hours and gets released. Today, a crowd of 200ish holds a silent march in memory of ... the robber.
His mother and grandparents walk in front, and the grandfather says that it is a disgrace that the DA provisionally goes with the self defense angle...

My mind boggles.
Dude... your grandchild was committing robbery and threatened a wife and her daughter...
This reminds me of the time when a drug dealer was shot after trying to ram a policeblockade with a stolen car, promptly causing riots (he was a foreigner) demanding 'justice for said'. Imo he got his justice right there.

I don't advocate vigilante justice at all. But getting killed in the act should not be a surprise if you choose a life or serious crime. Anyway I think this is insane. I am curious how it will develop.


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## Bill Mattocks (Dec 6, 2010)

I'd like some details before commenting.


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## Bruno@MT (Dec 6, 2010)

2 armed and masked intruders threaten the wife an daughter who are in the store. Jeweler is alarmed by the screams, takes his gun and goes downstairs to find the men treatening his family at gunpoint while looting the place. He shoots one of them with a 12 gauge double barrel (no pump action or semi shotgun, those are illegal here). The one who ended up dead turned out to be not quite 16, and a known person to the police. He restrained the other guy until the police showed up.


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## oaktree (Dec 6, 2010)

I am sorry that this young man had to meet such an end like this 
but when you hold women and children hostage at gun point a man
has to do what he has to in order to protect his family.

I know the young man's family is hurting it is a loved one they have lost.
 But they must come to the understanding that his actions were wrong
and the consquence unfortunately are what killed him.

In these situations noone really wins and I would do the same to protect my loved ones as well even at the cost of my life.


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## Bill Mattocks (Dec 6, 2010)

Bruno@MT said:


> 2 armed and masked intruders threaten the wife an daughter who are in the store. Jeweler is alarmed by the screams, takes his gun and goes downstairs to find the men treatening his family at gunpoint while looting the place. He shoots one of them with a 12 gauge double barrel (no pump action or semi shotgun, those are illegal here). The one who ended up dead turned out to be not quite 16, and a known person to the police. He restrained the other guy until the police showed up.



I meant I'd like to see a link.  Sorry, I should have been more clear.


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## Bruno@MT (Dec 6, 2010)

Ah sorry. I'll have to see if I can find a link on an English news site. Local news sites are only in Dutch or French.


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## Flea (Dec 6, 2010)

I think a certain amount of the "he had his whole life ahead of him" is legitimate.  It doesn't make his actions okay, obviously, but at 15 he had less capacity to judge right from wrong than a 40 year old would.  And it's always sad to see someone trash their lives at a young age no matter how it's done.

I totally support the business owner's choice though.  Very clear-cut.

Without seeing the original article it does bring to mind another case over the weekend ... a 15yo boy in Wisconsin held his classmates hostage for several hours before shooting himself.  He blew away a few inanimate objects, and nobody in the building recognized the sounds as gunshots.  So it lasted for hours until one parent came to school to track down his daughter.  Hundreds of people came to the boy's funeral because "it could happen to anybody."


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## Supra Vijai (Dec 6, 2010)

Down here in Australia there have been a few cases that inspire similar shock to some and sympathy to seemingly everyone else.

A while ago in the state of Queensland a robber broke into a house via their skylight in the kitchen and cut his foot open on the glass from the skylight and stabbed himself (not fatal) when he landed on a knife that was sitting on their counter top, he sued and won.... The state ruled that the skylight should have been made of safety glass/perspex and that the knife was a hazard. I mean seriously?

More recently there was a 15 year old armed with 2 blades (can't remember the exact type but I think they were machetes) ran wild till he was cornered in a park. He then tried to attack the police officers who were on the scene and was shot dead. This caused major scrutiny of police practices and the officers got a lot of flak for not shooting their armed attacker in the leg. 

I used to be a law student and quit the course as a result of these types of incidents which kinda shake one's faith in the whole justice system concept. There are far too many loopholes and misguided sympathies floating around IMO.


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## xfighter88 (Dec 7, 2010)

Flea said:


> I think a certain amount of the "he had his whole life ahead of him" is legitimate. It doesn't make his actions okay, obviously, but at 15 he had less capacity to judge right from wrong than a 40 year old would. And it's always sad to see someone trash their lives at a young age no matter how it's done.
> 
> I totally support the business owner's choice though. Very clear-cut.
> 
> Without seeing the original article it does bring to mind another case over the weekend ... a 15yo boy in Wisconsin held his classmates hostage for several hours before shooting himself. He blew away a few inanimate objects, and nobody in the building recognized the sounds as gunshots. So it lasted for hours until one parent came to school to track down his daughter. Hundreds of people came to the boy's funeral because "it could happen to anybody."


 
So I may have an interesting perspective on this one. I work at a juvenile detention center. I can tell you that these "kids" know that what they are doing is wrong. I can not think of a single one of them that would say what they did was right. They sure as heck won't admit that they are wrong, but they would not go as far as to say their actions were right. 

When I was 15 I made some stupid decisions but I knew if they were moral or not. At the time I just didn't care. My little criminals are the same. He may have had his whole life in front of him but it sure as heck wasn't going to be a life on the outside of bars.


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## sgtmac_46 (Dec 8, 2010)

Usually there's a racial dynamic when this kind of situation happens in the states.  If a minority youth gets shot in the act of committing a violent crime by a member of a different racial group, folks line up along racial lines, with many identifying with the deceased simply because he is a member of a specific racial group.


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## Bruno@MT (Dec 9, 2010)

The kid was a native. His pal was of foreign orgin, and member of a notorious gang. Both were no strangers to the police and had other court cases pending. Currently the jeweler is in hiding because the village is polarized and a good deal of people wanted to 'go and get him'. Lines are being drawn in the sand.

Other than that, there have been no developments.


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## Hapkidoman (Dec 15, 2010)

Where were the Grand parents, the parents, and or the 200ish supporters when this kid was getting in trouble in the past. If they were so concerned about him why were they not showing all this concern before he got to the point of committing armed robbery. Monday morning quarterbacking is so easy.


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## punisher73 (Dec 16, 2010)

xfighter88 said:


> So I may have an interesting perspective on this one. I work at a juvenile detention center. I can tell you that these "kids" know that what they are doing is wrong. I can not think of a single one of them that would say what they did was right. They sure as heck won't admit that they are wrong, but they would not go as far as to say their actions were right.
> 
> When I was 15 I made some stupid decisions but I knew if they were moral or not. At the time I just didn't care. My little criminals are the same. He may have had his whole life in front of him but it sure as heck wasn't going to be a life on the outside of bars.


 

I agree, a 15 year old might not have the mental reasoning of a 40 year old, but they sure as heck know right from wrong at that age.  That is one of the first things society usually teaches kids "stealing is wrong".  The first hint that they knew it was wrong was because THEY WERE WEARING MASKS to hide who they were and not get caught!


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## Bruno@MT (Jan 7, 2011)

From what I've understood, the parents are now suing for intentional manslaughter because the DA accepted the case for self defense and did not press charges.

But the grieved party always has the option to sue from the legal status of 'grieved person'. Their case will now appear before a judicial council (I don't know how to translate the Dutch term because our legal system works different to the US system so there is no direct equivalent) which will decide if the complaint has enough grounds to proceed to the applicable court (again, I have no direct translation for the concept of 'correctional court').

If that is dismissed, then the matter ends for good. At least from a legal pov. This matter will color relationships for many years to come, as the village seems to be divided on the matter.


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## sgtmac_46 (Jan 8, 2011)

Bruno@MT said:


> From what I've understood, the parents are now suing for intentional manslaughter because the DA accepted the case for self defense and did not press charges.
> 
> But the grieved party always has the option to sue from the legal status of 'grieved person'. Their case will now appear before a judicial council (I don't know how to translate the Dutch term because our legal system works different to the US system so there is no direct equivalent) which will decide if the complaint has enough grounds to proceed to the applicable court (again, I have no direct translation for the concept of 'correctional court').
> 
> If that is dismissed, then the matter ends for good. At least from a legal pov. This matter will color relationships for many years to come, as the village seems to be divided on the matter.




In Missouri we have an 'Enhanced Castle Doctrine' law that prevents civil lawsuits where the criminal body has determined that no charges will be filed as a result of self-defense.

Actually, technically they can file a suit, but no one will, because it will be thrown out and the filing party responsible for ALL expenses incurred by BOTH sides in the suit, according to our statute.


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## sgtmac_46 (Jan 8, 2011)

punisher73 said:


> I agree, a 15 year old might not have the mental reasoning of a 40 year old, but they sure as heck know right from wrong at that age.  That is one of the first things society usually teaches kids "stealing is wrong".  The first hint that they knew it was wrong was because THEY WERE WEARING MASKS to hide who they were and not get caught!



In some parts of the world 15 year olds are seasoned veteran killers with two or three years of violence under their belts.


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