# Rightful Heir



## Kroy (Sep 18, 2003)

I know that this a question that has been asked many times before but in your opinion who do you think is the one true person that should have took over the Kenpo system after Mr. Parker passed away. This is purely opinion.


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## jfarnsworth (Sep 19, 2003)

Sometimes I think it would have been better for us. Most of all Mr. Parker was a smart man and it was probably for the best that he didn't just give 1 person the reigns to the ship.


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## MisterMike (Sep 19, 2003)

an article:

www.blackbeltmag.com/archives/blackbelt/1992/jan92/edparker/edparker.html


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## kenpo_cory (Sep 19, 2003)

This was taken from an interview Black Belt magazine did with Mr. Parker in July 1979.

"My key protege is this kid Larry Tatum," Parker said with a laugh, continuing that "anyone younger than me I call a kid. He's my number one guy right now. He moves like me. He looks like me. He's got the power, everything. " 
The kenpoist noted that he is helping 15-year student Tatum complete a book, Confidence, A Child's First Weapon. He also named two others he considers proteges, insiders with whom he has shared the full scope of his knowledge. Tom Kelly, who Parker said is the highest-degree black belt at a seventh-degree level, operates a Parker school in Salt Lake City; Joe Palanzo, another formal student who Parker said holds a fifth degree black belt, teaches at a school in Baltimore.

Here's a link to the whole article if you want to read it. 
http://www.ltatum.com/Jul79.html


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## MartialArtsGuy (Sep 19, 2003)

Fear not fellow kenpoists.

I know my kenpo children exist in a state of chaos. However!

When the time is right I will reveal myself and kenpo will be together once again.

Yes, I will restore us all to a previous state of glory.

There can only be one interpretation, the effective interpretation, my interpretation!!!!! 

It will take sweat.....It will take blood....and it will take tears. Many will fall.....Many more will rise. and when the dust settles and when the moans go silent, There we will be, standing together. Kenpo, will reclaim its dominating position as the most effective martial system, under strong united leadership.

Let the mats be our proven grounds, the movement has begun.

Are YOU brave enough to follow me into the future?! :soapbox: 

But really now, it's hard to say, I'm not sure who I'd want. I dont know any of them well enough to make that kind of decision. It is hard to find good first hand info. 

All I know is that I'm interested in learning high quality kenpo and I like a teacher that can not only teach me but can also back it up.
It's nice when the teacher is a good person too.


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## Elfan (Sep 19, 2003)

I don't belive there is one.


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## JD_Nelson (Sep 19, 2003)

I am a kenpo whore.  I will take what i can get where i can get it.


The knowledge is out there.  So what if there is not one central place.  It is still attainable but you have to work for it.


Salute.

JD


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## Dalton (Sep 20, 2003)

Kenpo Cory-
Not to burst your bubble, but the article you cite was from July 1979, 11 years before Mr. Parker passed.  Don't you think there were some events that took place that may have changed Mr. Parker's perspective on this specific topic?  Maybe there wasn't, I don't know. 
Yours in Kenpo,
Dalton Avery


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## Kroy (Sep 20, 2003)

> _Originally posted by JD_Nelson _
> *I am a kenpo whore.  I will take what i can get where i can get it.
> 
> 
> ...



No it doesnt matter, we are all here training like mad because we love what we do. I dont care if Mr. Bean was my Sifu, as long as he showed me the way. I just like to know what people think. (Kenpo Whore....I like that)


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## arnisador (Sep 20, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Dalton _
> *Not to burst your bubble, but the article you cite was from July 1979, 11 years before Mr. Parker passed.  Don't you think there were some events that took place that may have changed Mr. Parker's perspective on this specific topic?  Maybe there wasn't, I don't know.  *



Did he make later statements about proteges?


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## clapping_tiger (Sep 20, 2003)

> _Originally posted by jfarnsworth _
> *Sometimes I think it would have been better for us. Most of all Mr. Parker was a smart man and it was probably for the best that he didn't just give 1 person the reigns to the ship. *



I agree 100%


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## arnisador (Sep 20, 2003)

I started a thread on this general idea once. It isn't obvious to me that the _system_ benefits from having a single head, even though there are many benfits of having a single person in charge.


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## kenpo_cory (Sep 20, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Dalton _
> *Kenpo Cory-
> Not to burst your bubble, but the article you cite was from July 1979, 11 years before Mr. Parker passed.  Don't you think there were some events that took place that may have changed Mr. Parker's perspective on this specific topic?  Maybe there wasn't, I don't know.
> Yours in Kenpo,
> Dalton Avery *



I'm not sure if Mr. Parker's perspective changed or not. I was just adding some ingredients to the pot. In my opinion I honestly do not believe that any one person could run the show. As we all know, Mr. Parker gave information sporadically to whom he saw fit. I don't think any one person in the kenpo community has the knowledge Mr. Parker had. Personally, I haven't met any of the people Mr. Parker named as his proteges. But I can say I am happy with what I am learning from my instructor.


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## Brother John (Sep 20, 2003)

> _Originally posted by JD_Nelson _
> *I am a kenpo whore.  I will take what i can get where i can get it. *


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## don bohrer (Sep 20, 2003)

Take me to your leader...  

The day has passed for that decision. His students now have the reigns, and are doing a fine job. Mr Kelly was in El Paso  at one time. So he gets my vote!


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## Brother John (Sep 20, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Kroy _
> *I know that this a question that has been asked many times before but in your opinion who do you think is the one true person that should have took over the Kenpo system after Mr. Parker passed away. This is purely opinion. *



I don't think that there was ONE TRUE heir that 'should' have taken over. I don't think it would serve any good purpose really. Some stand out as the definite leaders, and have lead and are leading.

I think it's better this way.

Your Brother
John


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## WhiteTiger (Sep 20, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Kroy _
> *I know that this a question that has been asked many times before but in your opinion who do you think is the one true person that should have took over the Kenpo system after Mr. Parker passed away. This is purely opinion. *



Kory,
Your statements seems to imply that there was ONE Kenpo system to hand over.  Well before Mr. Parkers death this just wasn't the case.  I will assume you mean EPAK.  The question I would ask is, was anything within the system truly his to hand over?  I mean, did he "leagally" own it?  Was it copywrited, it seems not judging by what has happened to it since.


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## Brother John (Sep 20, 2003)

> _Originally posted by WhiteTiger _
> *Kory,
> Your statements seems to imply that there was ONE Kenpo system to hand over.  Well before Mr. Parkers death this just wasn't the case.  I will assume you mean EPAK.  The question I would ask is, was anything within the system truly his to hand over?  I mean, did he "leagally" own it?  Was it copywrited, it seems not judging by what has happened to it since. *


I don't know if you can copy write martial arts techniques/jargon.
Seems to me that the IKKA would have taken action on this.

Your Bro.
John


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## Kroy (Sep 20, 2003)

> _Originally posted by WhiteTiger _
> *Kory,
> Your statements seems to imply that there was ONE Kenpo system to hand over.  Well before Mr. Parkers death this just wasn't the case.  I will assume you mean EPAK.  The question I would ask is, was anything within the system truly his to hand over?  I mean, did he "leagally" own it?  Was it copywrited, it seems not judging by what has happened to it since. *



Yes I was refering to EPAK. And no he never had anything copywrited, this is why we have a multitude of American Kenpo Organizations. And that is why I asked the question. Thanks.


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## Kroy (Sep 20, 2003)

WhiteTiger, may I ask (humbly) which system of Kenpo do you train in?


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## WhiteTiger (Sep 20, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Kroy _
> *WhiteTiger, may I ask (humbly) which system of Kenpo do you train in? *



Tracy's


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## Kroy (Sep 20, 2003)

I studied Tracys for a number of years as well. I enjoyed it, never at a loss for new material thats for sure.


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## arnisador (Sep 20, 2003)

> _Originally posted by WhiteTiger _
> *Your statements seems to imply that there was ONE Kenpo system to hand over.  Well before Mr. Parkers death this just wasn't the case. *



This is an interesting point of view. We say somewhat similar things about Modern Arnis--those who trained at different times learned what amounts to different arts.


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## Michael Billings (Sep 20, 2003)

... could not put Kenpo back together again.

Sic gloria transit

From the ashes, hopefully, arises the phoenix.

-MB


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## JD_Nelson (Sep 21, 2003)

> quote: Originally posted by WhiteTiger
> Kory,
> Your statements seems to imply that there was ONE Kenpo system to hand over. Well before Mr. Parkers death this just wasn't the case. I will assume you mean EPAK. The question I would ask is, was anything within the system truly his to hand over? I mean, did he "leagally" own it? Was it copywrited, it seems not judging by what has happened to it since.



What an observant point.  This is a similar statement to what Mr. Ron Chapel has posted many times as far as what Mr. Parker himself studied or taught.  This statement does not imply one is more sophisticated or less than the other.  I have thought this many times, but not in such a concise statement. 

Now i know this is hearsay, but as I understand it, Mr. Parker had a way of making everyone think that the kenpo was their own.  not his not his way, but tailored.  Maybe we should opend up our own minds to the tailoring concept and expand on the idea tailoring to realize that some of the Seniors are teaching what they were taught and the things they had a strength in.  Could be proper body mechanics, knife work, innovation for new teaching methodologies.  I think there is no one source that will or can have it all.  I believe Mr. Parker knew this and understood it.  If Mr. Mills, Mr. Planas. Mr. Chapel, Mr. Pick, etc etc........... all have their own gifts and a piece of kenpo that each is better at than the other.  Why wouldn't Mr. Parker make them do his research for him???  It seems only smart to let those that know a particular topic study it even further and report back the results.  Sounds like good managment to me.  The CEO gets all the KUDOS when a company does well.  If you look at this like a business it looks like it may have been well run.  

As I reread the article about Mr. Planas being the rightful heir it makes sense to us that he should have been the successor due to TITLE.  

The kenpo whore comment is not derogotory but more as a williness to accept the fact that one source does not have it all and one source will not have it all. This is a repeated statement from many individuals i have read in the short time I have been in kenpo.  

It is not about the greatest or best, It is about your own journey.  If you are willing to make the commitment to explore it on your own and find out for you self you are ahead of the rest.  

Salute,

JD


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## stickarts (Sep 21, 2003)

When you have someone at the skill level of a Mr. Parker or Mr. Presas, someone who committs everything to the art, that has the magic, i don't know that there can be any one person that can fill their shoes.
When the grandmaster passes away, each has to then cut their own path.


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## kenposikh (Sep 24, 2003)

I personally don't think it matters who should be the successor of Mr Parker. There are a hell of a lot of great INstructors out there and we have some of the finest here in the UK.

However in a eutopian view it would be nice to have everyone recognmised under one organisation, for purposes of acreditation.

Too many students get ripped off by McDojo's opening up for a a few weeks and then dissappearing.

I personally have only trained with a few people from the States MAstert Tatum, Mr Trejo, Dr Chapel to name some All worthy of their ranks in my humble opinion (only cos they blew my mind when I trained with them!!!)

And of course Mr E Parker Junior


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## Old Fat Kenpoka (Sep 24, 2003)

The solution is simple:

Larry Tatum should run EPAK.  Clyde T. O'Briant should be his internet policeman.


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## CoolKempoDude (Sep 24, 2003)

i don't know why Ed Park Jr doesn't want to become Grandmaster of AK  as a leader in AK ?????????


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## kenposikh (Sep 24, 2003)

E P Junior cannot be a Grand Master as he isn't one, he is an excellent Ambassador for Kenpo.
Obviously now he is the Head of the IKKA anmd currently has his hands full with that at the moment.


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## kenposikh (Sep 24, 2003)

E P Junior cannot be a Grand Master as he isn't one, he is an excellent Ambassador for Kenpo.
Obviously now he is the Head of the IKKA anmd currently has his hands full with that at the moment.


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## Brother John (Sep 24, 2003)

> _Originally posted by CoolKempoDude _
> *i don't know why Ed Park Jr doesn't want to become Grandmaster of AK  as a leader in AK ????????? *



Ed is a humble man who knows that he's in no way qualified to be a Grandmaster. He's a good person and no doubt does his best to be a benefit to his father's legacy... every branch of it, but he's not qualified, and I doubt he'd want the headache.

Your Brother
John


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## kenposikh (Sep 24, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Old Fat Kenpoka _
> *The solution is simple:
> 
> Larry Tatum should run EPAK.  Clyde T. O'Briant should be his internet policeman. *



I've met Clyde and I think I would prefer to meet him over the net than in person especially after he's had a few too many Newcastle Brow Ales !!!


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## ProfessorKenpo (Sep 25, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Old Fat Kenpoka _
> *The solution is simple:
> 
> Larry Tatum should run EPAK.  Clyde T. O'Briant should be his internet policeman. *




WTF?

Clyde


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## Old Fat Kenpoka (Sep 25, 2003)

Clyde:  I'm kinda serious about the putting Tatum in charge thing.  Heck, even Al Tracy agrees.  

As far as the Internet policeman thing...you visit the forums more than any other high-ranking Tatum guy so...


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## Bill Lear (Sep 25, 2003)

> *Originally posted by Old Fat Kenpoka *
> _Clyde:  As far as the Internet policeman thing...you visit the forums more than any other high-ranking Tatum guy so... _



One really cool thing I noticed about Clyde is that he uses the topics from Martial Talk, Kenpo Net, and Can Am to formulate lesson plans. He's not here to police the Internet, but use it for his benefit and the benefit of his students. Smart move if you ask me.

Another thing I like about Clyde is that he tests everything out, and is in a perpetual state of refinement. Instead of jumping on the bandwagon about how this or that doesn't work.... He's constantly exploring how to make Kenpo work within the framework that Mr. Parker created. In my opinion that's the sign of a great teacher, not a policeman.


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## Old Fat Kenpoka (Sep 25, 2003)

Even better.  

Larry Tatum, head of EPAK; Clyde T. O'Briant, head of on-line education.


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## rmcrobertson (Sep 25, 2003)

Can I run Minitrue?


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## jeffkyle (Sep 25, 2003)

> _Originally posted by ProfessorKenpo _
> *WTF?
> 
> Clyde *



*W*hiskey *T*ango *F*oxtrot?


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## Bill Lear (Sep 25, 2003)

> *Originally posted by Old Fat Kenpoka *
> _Even better.
> 
> Larry Tatum, head of EPAK; Clyde T. O'Briant, head of on-line education. _



Nope. You've got it wrong again.

Clyde uses his online experience to enhance his teaching in the studio.

Mr. Tatum, on the other hand, is the *ONLY* Kenpoist that has a Tip Of The Week video section on the net.

In other words I think Mr. Tatum fills both of those roles, and Clyde would have to second chair.


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## Kroy (Sep 25, 2003)

Whats Cydes web address?


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## Bill Lear (Sep 25, 2003)

> *Originally posted by Kroy *
> _Whats Cydes web address? _



I think you mean C*L*yde's Web address...? Here you go brotha man: CISOTIC KENPO :asian:


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## Kroy (Sep 25, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Bill Lear _
> *I think you mean CLyde's Web address...? Here you go brotha man: CISOTIC KENPO :asian: *



My bad, thanks for the site.


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## WhiteTiger (Sep 25, 2003)

I would like to ask a few related questions.

What are the responsibilities of a GrandMaster?
What would a GrandMaster provide to EPAK that is missing today?
If one man was recognized as such would it unite kenpo or just serve to fragment it further?

For my own opinion, The biggest problem in the Martial Arts is that anybody that has studied for ten minutes can go out, open a school, buy som impressive looking trophies, and claim to be the GrandMaster in a new system which he has "INVENTED" base on "Years" of experience in ten different arts.  If he has some business skills and knows how to market himself, a whole mob of drooling idiots will flock to his studio to learn from the "Master".  The poor fools which are his students don't even know enough to ask for his credentials before signing a five year contract.

So the presents of a GM for the system seems to have lost some of it's appeal.

:soapbox:


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## Brother John (Sep 27, 2003)

> _Originally posted by WhiteTiger _
> *I would like to ask a few related questions.
> 
> What are the responsibilities of a GrandMaster?
> ...


Jesus said: "By their fruits shall ye know them."
Now he wasn't talking about the head of martial arts systems, but I think that the principle still holds true.

What did Mr. Mills put forth that a Grand Master should be?

EPAK would have to collectively agree on the credentials, and then collectively agree on the person to fill meet those credentials.
In other words...
I don't think it COULD happen.

There's about 2-4 men TOPS that might come close (in my mind) to meeting those credentials for EPAK, but those men aren't doing it and apparently are fine with that.
That should make us think in and of its self I believe.

Your Brother
John


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## kevin kilroe (Sep 28, 2003)

I dont understand why the names of Mr. Planas, Mr. Tatum, Mr. Pick, Mr. Mills, all well respected kenpoists, are metioned but not Mr. Lee Wedlake. His knowledge and skill are incredible.


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## JD_Nelson (Sep 28, 2003)

> I dont understand why the names of Mr. Planas, Mr. Tatum, Mr. Pick, Mr. Mills, all well respected kenpoists, are metioned but not Mr. Lee Wedlake. His knowledge and skill are incredible.



Sir,  I did not mean to leave anyone out who may be deserving or should at least be recognized as a potential leader.

 As I understand it Mr. Wedlake is/will not accept any other rank than what Mr. Parker gave  him.   I admire this very much.  I think it is a sign of true character.  At the same time what I also may observe is that Mr. Wedlake has intentionally removed himself from this debate even before any other came close to 10th.  Possible great foresight on his part.  

  Really I have no business recommending any one to be the EPAK figure head.  I have not met any of the men mentioned in this thread. I dont think there ever will be.  Would like too, but not going to break my neck doing it (yet).  If i were to ever make 5th degree black in my lifetime I would be truly amazed.  I have to much to work on for my next colored belt test.


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## ProfessorKenpo (Sep 28, 2003)

> _Originally posted by JD_Nelson _
> *Sir,  I did not mean to leave anyone out who may be deserving or should at least be recognized as a potential leader.
> 
> As I understand it Mr. Wedlake is/will not accept any other rank than what Mr. Parker gave  him.   I admire this very much.  I think it is a sign of true character.  At the same time what I also may observe is that Mr. Wedlake has intentionally removed himself from this debate even before any other came close to 10th.  Possible great foresight on his part.
> ...




Hey JD, look at his website, this is the bio I found.

Lee Wedlake Jr.

     Mr.Wedlake started studying Judo in 1967 at the Shindo Kan school in Chicago, IL. where he achieved the rank of Brown belt.  In November 1972 he initiated study of Chinese Kenpo at a school in Evergreen Park, IL.  He left that school as a Brown belt.  Mr. Wedlake was later promoted to first degree Black belt on June 2, 1975 by Michael John Sanders, 5th Dan, Kenpo of Sterling, IL., who also promoted him to 2nd Degree Black.  After Sanders' death in July 1979, Mr. Wedlake began studying with Edmund K. Parker, "The Father of American Karate," at Pasadena, CA. in November 1979.  He was trained by both Parker and Frank Trejo for two years and promoted to third degree in 1981.   In 1982 he was introduced to Richard "HUK" Planas at the International Karate Championships and studied concurrently with Planas and Parker.  Parker, Trejo, Planas and Joe Palanzo promoted him in September 1986 to Fifth degree.  His sixth degree was awarded by Ed Parker on November 19, 1990, approximately one month before Parker's passing.  Frank Trejo and HUK Planas promoted him to 7th degree on June 27, 1993.  Then in October 1998 during the annual Kenpo Camp in Ft. Myers, HUK promoted Mr. Wedlake to 8th degree. 



Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde


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## Shiatsu (Sep 28, 2003)

I think it should be Ron Bennett:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


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## JD_Nelson (Sep 28, 2003)

I had read Mr. Wedlakes Bio about 2 years ago.  I could not remember all the specifics. 

I just think that hope for every faction of kenpo to follow one grande poobah is for the birds.  Plus I really dont care who wants or thinks he/she is/should be the leader.  I will learn from those who have knowledge i dont.

Salute

JD


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## WhiteTiger (Sep 29, 2003)

> _Originally posted by kevin kilroe _
> *I dont understand why the names of Mr. Planas, Mr. Tatum, Mr. Pick, Mr. Mills, all well respected kenpoists, are metioned but not Mr. Lee Wedlake. His knowledge and skill are incredible. *



Case and point, everybody will want a GM to come from their lineage, that is why it will never happen.


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## MisterMike (Sep 29, 2003)

I'd have to lean towards the question of "Why do we need one?"

To head up some bureaucratic society that everyone will pay dues to, just to have limits placed on their methods of teaching, training and promoting?

I the different branches of the Kenpo Tree like/hate each other now, what would that all change?


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## rmcrobertson (Sep 29, 2003)

And I don't understand why everything has to be a matter of Finding the Right Dad...well, actually I do understand why...

But look at how silly some of these arguments get. Mr. Wedlake should be set up as a senior to the two men who trained and promoted him, Mr. Trejo and Mr. Planas?

Sorry--but in traditional styles, they'd just laugh, I suspect.

Why not just blunder along as we're doing?


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## jeffkyle (Sep 29, 2003)

> _Originally posted by rmcrobertson _
> *
> Why not just blunder along as we're doing? *



That is a FACT of my life.  :shrug:


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## Atlanta-Kenpo (Oct 7, 2003)

This topic seems to be drug up more and more and I guess it is just human nature to have everything under 1 man.  However, I think that if it is 1 thing that we could actually all agree upon is that EPAK will never be united again as it once was.  We all have our lineage (I am under Mr Wedlake) and we tend to favor what ever GREAT KENPOIST that we study under simply because it allow us to feel closer to GREATNESS/Mr PArker.  Most of us have never meet the man and would have loved to. The man change martial arts in the entire country and WOW what can you say about that.  

I think that the best idea to deal with this was the "SENIOR COUNCLE".  It is to bad tha ego's and politics got in the way but somehow as much as things seem to change they always end up being the same.  There are about 5-10 seniors out there who are absolutely amazing so find who you mesh with and TRAIN. LEARN, LOVE + TEACH.:asian:


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## marshallbd (Nov 7, 2003)

I understand there is not one specific leader out there.  I have had the Opportunity to know Mr Mike Pick and he is a great man in heart and body.  An if the others are anything like him then there are some awe inspring people out there.


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## marshallbd (Nov 7, 2003)

> [
> 
> There's about 2-4 men TOPS that might come close (in my mind) to meeting those credentials for EPAK, but those men aren't doing it and apparently are fine with that.
> That should make us think in and of its self I believe.
> ...



So who are those 2-4 you think are qualified......?


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