# Freemasonry



## Sensei Payne (Sep 10, 2012)

I just joined the Fraternity back in Oct. 2011, I am currently working on my Fellowcraft degree lecture.

Our of curiosity, how many fellow Martial Artists are also Brother Masons?

I am part of Plumb Lodge #862


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## granfire (Sep 10, 2012)

Getting crap yet for being one? :lol:

Not personally but my husband is. Both, a mason and getting 'the business' from the uneducated. 

But one thing I can tell you: you will never be alone. There is always a brother around the corner. 

Good luck on your journey!


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## Sensei Payne (Sep 10, 2012)

Its really been a fantastic experince so far...I just gotta get my lecutre down so I can become a Master Mason, and be on the same level as everyone else. pish


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## Xue Sheng (Sep 10, 2012)

granfire said:


> Getting crap yet for being one? :lol:
> 
> Not personally but my husband is. Both, a mason and getting 'the business' from the uneducated.
> 
> ...



Should I ask :hmm:.....ok where is the grail


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## granfire (Sep 10, 2012)

Xue Sheng said:


> Should I ask :hmm:.....ok where is the grail



LOL, My husband isn't allowed to tell me, you know. :angel:


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## ballen0351 (Sep 10, 2012)

Ive been thinking about joining for a few years just havent "asked" yet.


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## granfire (Sep 10, 2012)

ballen0351 said:


> Ive been thinking about joining for a few years just havent "asked" yet.



I thought you already did....
Can't be a Shriner without being a Mason!


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## arnisador (Sep 10, 2012)

A close friend is a Shriner and loves it--esp. all the charity events. It piques my interest but I don't think I could make the time commitment.


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## Tames D (Sep 10, 2012)

I'm not familar with freemason. I'd like to know more about it.


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## Tgace (Sep 10, 2012)

While I admire their charity work, Catholicism and Freemasonry don't mix.

 :readrules


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## Tames D (Sep 10, 2012)

Tgace said:


> While I admire their charity work, Catholicism and Freemasonry don't mix.
> 
> :readrules



Please explain. I'd like to know more about this.


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## granfire (Sep 10, 2012)

Tgace said:


> While I admire their charity work, Catholicism and Freemasonry don't mix.
> 
> :readrules



ROFLMAO.

I am pretty sure you are mistaken. The earliest Freemasons were most likely Catholics, and since the club is international I am sure there are a lot of them in say, Italy and Spain and such places. After all, aside from the builders of the pyramids down to the masons working on the grand cathedrals...

@ tames D: Ask one to be one. You find a guy with the square and compass sign somewhere, ask him. 
(and dn't watch too much of the 'behind the Da Vinci Code' :lol:


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## Sensei Payne (Sep 11, 2012)

I myself am a Fellowcraft Mason, and I am also Catholic.

The Church looks down on it, but they don't crack down on it at all...Masonry welcomes all Monotheistic Religions.  One of the Rules is, you must believe in a higher power.

To become a Mason, all you have to do is ask one, to be one...but in the case that you personally do not know a Master Mason, you can always look in the phone book for your states Grand Lodge, and asking them there is just as good as asking a personal friend.

When you are looking into Freemasonry, please be very careful...it is the oldest Fraternity on the Planet..and through misinformation, and rumor, there is a lot of Anti-Masonry sites out there...Do not pay them any attention.  Approach the Fraternity yourself, and make your own decisions...but I can say this...for me, it's on the list of the best things I have ever done in my life.

Hope this was helpful


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## Xue Sheng (Sep 11, 2012)

granfire said:


> LOL, My husband isn't allowed to tell me, you know. :angel:




OK then..so... ummm...Where or who are the Templars today?


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## Tgace (Sep 11, 2012)

granfire said:


> ROFLMAO.
> 
> I am pretty sure you are mistaken. The earliest Freemasons were most likely Catholics, and since the club is international I am sure there are a lot of them in say, Italy and Spain and such places. After all, aside from the builders of the pyramids down to the masons working on the grand cathedrals...
> 
> ...



No..Im not mistaken...until 1983 the Church would excommunicate you for being a member. It's still considered a grevious sin today.

http://www.ewtn.com/library/ANSWERS/BACAFM.htm

http://www.clearlightcatholic.com/masonic/whataremasons.htm



> Since the decree "In Eminenti" of Pope Clement XII
> in 1738, Catholics have been forbidden to jojn the Masons, and until 1983, under
> pain of excommunication. (The Orthodox and several Protestant churches also ban
> membership in the Masons.) Confusion occurred in 1974, when a letter by Cardinal
> ...


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## crushing (Sep 11, 2012)

Tgace said:


> No..Im not mistaken...
> 
> http://www.ewtn.com/library/ANSWERS/BACAFM.htm
> 
> http://www.clearlightcatholic.com/masonic/whataremasons.htm



I found this sentence from the first link particularly interesting and even entertaining.



> Masonry violates the First and Second Commandments of God. It worships not the One True God of revelation&#8212;Father, Son and Holy Spirit&#8212;but a false god, symbolically transcendent but really immanent: the "god" called "Reason."


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## Tgace (Sep 11, 2012)

Tames D said:


> Please explain. I'd like to know more about this.



http://www.clearlightcatholic.com/masonic/whataremasons.htm



> The Catholic Church has difficulties with
> Freemasonry because it is indeed a kind of religion unto itself. The practice of
> Freemasonry includes temples, altars, a moral code, worship services, vestments,
> feast days, a hierarchy of leadership, initiation and burial rites, and promises
> ...


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## granfire (Sep 11, 2012)

It's safe to say that the Catholic church has a bigger problem with the masons than the other way around.

but then again, they also have a problem with nuns writing books about female health....


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## Tez3 (Sep 11, 2012)

I shall post this then run for cover  surely the Masons are just another gang/club for the boys? Lads love 'secret gangs' lol, all those rituals and male bonding things.


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## Tames D (Sep 11, 2012)

Sensei Payne said:


> I myself am a Fellowcraft Mason, and I am also Catholic.
> 
> The Church looks down on it, but they don't crack down on it at all...Masonry welcomes all Monotheistic Religions. One of the Rules is, you must believe in a higher power.
> 
> ...



I didn't mean to mislead you. I wasn't interested in joining, just understanding what it is exactly.


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## Tames D (Sep 11, 2012)

Tgace said:


> http://www.clearlightcatholic.com/masonic/whataremasons.htm



Thanks for the info. It's not really my cup of tea.


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## granfire (Sep 11, 2012)

Tez3 said:


> I shall post this then run for cover  surely the Masons are just another gang/club for the boys? Lads love 'secret gangs' lol, all those rituals and male bonding things.



There are some that allow women to join.


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## granfire (Sep 11, 2012)

Tames D said:


> I didn't mean to mislead you. I wasn't interested in joining, just understanding what it is exactly.



well, if you meet one, ask him.
but what it really means to join can't be explained.

And not because of the secrets. It creates a special place in your heart, and of course it's different for everybody.


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## Xue Sheng (Sep 11, 2012)

Ahhh avoiding the whole Templar question I see...:hmm:


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## granfire (Sep 11, 2012)

Xue Sheng said:


> Ahhh avoiding the whole Templar question I see...:hmm:



Oh...those I have hidden in my closet...


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## Sensei Payne (Sep 11, 2012)

Tgace said:


> No..Im not mistaken...until 1983 the Church would excommunicate you for being a member. It's still considered a grevious sin today.
> 
> http://www.ewtn.com/library/ANSWERS/BACAFM.htm
> 
> http://www.clearlightcatholic.com/masonic/whataremasons.htm



I have spoken with my Priest, and he told me that the only reason why the Catholic church has any issues today with masonry is simply political...and that if I feel that I am going against God's will in any way, then I should remove myself from the Fraternity...but at no time since I have joined have I ever in anyway felt this way.



crushing said:


> I found this sentence from the first link particularly interesting and even entertaining.


The quote you were refering to was basically saying that Masons have a seperate God that they Worship..This of course is incorrect, Masons must believe in one God, a higher power...The reason why Catholics have the biggest problem with this is because it doesn't say that the Catholic God is the only God so of course that goes against what the Catholics believe in the over all spectrum of things...but personally, those rules don't effect me, since I still consider myself Catholic.



granfire said:


> It's safe to say that the Catholic church has a bigger problem with the masons than the other way around.
> 
> but then again, they also have a problem with nuns writing books about female health....



This is very true, and when it call comes down to it...it comes down to Politics with the Catholic Church, again and again.



granfire said:


> There are some that allow women to join.



Not in any Regular Lodges, of course being around for so many years, there are several off shoots of Masonry, but true Freemasonry women are not allowed in Regular lodge, however there are several branches such as Eastern Star, and Rainbow Girls that womean are able to join as long as they are Related to a Master Mason (IE brother, Father, Son, Uncle, Grandfather, Great Grand Father)


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## Sensei Payne (Sep 11, 2012)

Xue Sheng said:


> Ahhh avoiding the whole Templar question I see...:hmm:



The Templars are also another off shoot of regular Masonry, they are however seen as regular by the Grand Lodge, however, you can not just believe in a Higher Power, you have to be a Christian to Join them.


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## Tez3 (Sep 11, 2012)

I'm not being flippant here but with the UK having so many ancient cathedrals, churches and buildings when you speak of masons and masonry my mind goes straight to them. I realise these stonemasons are the foundation of Free Masons as an organisation but the trade itself is still alive and very much kicking in the UK.
http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/944...n_s_work_on_York_Minster_s_Great_East_Window/


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## Xue Sheng (Sep 11, 2012)

granfire said:


> Oh...those I have hidden in my closet...



Oh and you want me to believe you DON'T know where the grail is...yeah right...I'm not buyin' it


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## granfire (Sep 11, 2012)

Tez3 said:


> I'm not being flippant here but with the UK having so many ancient cathedrals, churches and buildings when you speak of masons and masonry my mind goes straight to them. I realise these stonemasons are the foundation of Free Masons as an organisation but the trade itself is still alive and very much kicking in the UK.
> http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/944...n_s_work_on_York_Minster_s_Great_East_Window/



And most of them where build by catholics...
They are ongoing projects, too, since the environment has not been kind to the structures and constant repairs are needed. 
In Cologne they had a TV piece about the Dome, the masons had a little fun with the restorations and used the likeness of several politicians to shape the gargoyles on the steeple roof.
I suppose an inside joke, since no mere mortal will ever venture up there... :lol:

But in all there is a lot of crap out thee about the masons. 
Part fueled by the DaVinci Code, part because it's like ZOMG a secret and outsiders are not invited. Or maybe jealousy, because the membership didn't vote them in or invited them to leave. 

They certainly have a code of conduct, rather unusual for these times.


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## granfire (Sep 11, 2012)

Xue Sheng said:


> Oh and you want me to believe you DON'T know where the grail is...yeah right...I'm not buyin' it



psht....who needs a grail when you can have knights....


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## Xue Sheng (Sep 11, 2012)

granfire said:


> psht....who needs a grail when you can have knights....




YEAH... Knights who control the Swiss banks... and don't get me started on the whole Da Vinci Code.... don't make me call Tom Hanks in on this :uhyeah:


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## Tez3 (Sep 11, 2012)

granfire said:


> And most of them where build by catholics...
> They are ongoing projects, too, since the environment has not been kind to the structures and constant repairs are needed.
> In Cologne they had a TV piece about the Dome, the masons had a little fun with the restorations and used the likeness of several politicians to shape the gargoyles on the steeple roof.
> I suppose an inside joke, since no mere mortal will ever venture up there... :lol:
> ...



The masons from Koln were following a time honoured tradition as the orginal masons also parodied the good and great of the time by truning them into gargoyles. 

The cathedrals here were certainly built by Roman Catholics, some of the early churches were built by the Celtic Christians though who allowed it's priests, nuns and monks to marry.

The only thing I tend to know about the Freemasons is that they tend to get lumped with us when conspiracies about who is taking over/running the world are voiced about. A lot of time we are supposed to be in league with them or them us.


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## Tgace (Sep 11, 2012)

granfire said:


> It's safe to say that the Catholic church has a bigger problem with the masons than the other way around.
> 
> but then again, they also have a problem with nuns writing books about female health....



http://www.catholicbible101.com/cafeteriacatholics.htm


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## granfire (Sep 11, 2012)

Tez3 said:


> The masons from Koln were following a time honoured tradition as the orginal masons also parodied the good and great of the time by truning them into gargoyles.
> 
> The cathedrals here were certainly built by Roman Catholics, some of the early churches were built by the Celtic Christians though who allowed it's priests, nuns and monks to marry.
> 
> The only thing I tend to know about the Freemasons is that they tend to get lumped with us when conspiracies about who is taking over/running the world are voiced about. A lot of time we are supposed to be in league with them or them us.



well....
The Jews control the banks, the masons the rest of the world, didn't you know that?!
:wink:

:lol:


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## Xue Sheng (Sep 12, 2012)

granfire said:


> well....
> The Jews control the banks, the masons the rest of the world, didn't you know that?!
> :wink:
> 
> :lol:



Not in SWITZWERLAND...the Masons and TEMPLARS control those banks.... :mst: unless of course they are the SAME THING!!!!! :uhyeah:


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## Tez3 (Sep 12, 2012)

All I can say is ...if only!


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## Sensei Payne (Sep 13, 2012)

Dude, if we(Masons) own the banks, I know I'm not seeing a DIME of it, and neither is my Lodge.


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## Xue Sheng (Sep 13, 2012)

Sensei Payne said:


> Dude, if we(Masons) own the banks, I know I'm not seeing a DIME of it, and neither is my Lodge.



That's what they all say...so where's the Grail


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## Sensei Payne (Sep 13, 2012)

Xue Sheng said:


> That's what they all say...so where's the Grail



LOL...your asking the wrong question...its not where...its who..

>.>

<.<

Just kidding...


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## Tames D (Oct 14, 2012)

Just watched a documentary on this subject. Very Satanic. Not for me.


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## Bob Hubbard (Oct 14, 2012)

Surprised no one else posted this one.  Neither the Masons or the Knights run the world, it's the StoneCutters!







I've got a friend who's a mason, forwarded this thread to him.

My understanding is that the Knights were formed as a Catholic alternative to the Masons and other similar groups.


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## granfire (Oct 14, 2012)

Tames D said:


> Just watched a documentary on this subject. Very Satanic. Not for me.



Share which one.

Chances are, I have watched it with my Mason husband and laughed my butt off!

There is a lot of BS around.
Some, because the people are not in the group, some because they left it....or were asked to leave. 

Satanic? 
I can pretty much tell you, knowing the area we live in, it would never fly.


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## Tames D (Oct 14, 2012)

It was on the discovery channel. Not sure the title. I'll have to look.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Oct 14, 2012)

granfire said:


> well....
> The Jews control the banks, the masons the rest of the world, didn't you know that?!
> :wink:
> 
> :lol:


Unless...the masons control the Jews as well??I sense a conspiracy theory turned into a book coming on here...


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Oct 14, 2012)

Tames D said:


> It was on the discovery channel. Not sure the title. I'll have to look.


Well there's your problem. You should know better than to trust the discovery channel...just a channel full of bs made and tailored for bsers (with one or two exceptions)


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## Carol (Oct 15, 2012)

Tgace said:


> No..Im not mistaken...until 1983 the Church would excommunicate you for being a member. It's still considered a grevious sin today.
> 
> http://www.ewtn.com/library/ANSWERS/BACAFM.htm
> 
> http://www.clearlightcatholic.com/masonic/whataremasons.htm




Yup, that's correct. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papal_ban_of_Freemasonry

Catholics founded their own "secret society" with the Knights of Columbus.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_of_Columbus


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## Carol (Oct 15, 2012)

kempodisciple said:


> Well there's your problem. You should know better than to trust the discovery channel...just a channel full of bs made and tailored for bsers (with one or two exceptions)



Source?


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## crushing (Oct 15, 2012)

Carol said:


> Source?



http://dsc.discovery.com/tv-schedules/daily.html

Need more proof?  lol


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## Tez3 (Oct 15, 2012)

crushing said:


> http://dsc.discovery.com/tv-schedules/daily.html
> 
> Need more proof? lol



I think what you get on Discovery Channel is different from what we get! I've just switched over to it to see what programmes are on and none of them correspond to what you have on any day.


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## crushing (Oct 15, 2012)

Tez3 said:


> I think what you get on Discovery Channel is different from what we get! I've just switched over to it to see what programmes are on and none of them correspond to what you have on any day.



It has become a reality TV station here.  With an occasional faux-cumentary (careful how you say that!) where scientists, as played by actors, are gathering evidence to support the aquatic ape theory despite threats from the American government.   http://dsc.discovery.com/show-news/mermaids-the-body-found.html


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## Tez3 (Oct 15, 2012)

Seems to be a different company. http://www.discoveryuk.com/?campaign=home or at least a different offshoot. There's a lot of good programming on it though some is a bit too 'blokey' ie about cars for me.


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## Xue Sheng (Oct 15, 2012)

The discovery channel in the USA is not what it use to be...that is for sure


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Oct 15, 2012)

Carol said:


> Source?


Basically what the above people have said. I don't have a particular source, but just turn on the discovery channel at any given time, or watch a documentary on it, then factcheck what they say, and you'll see what I mean.


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## Xue Sheng (Oct 15, 2012)

kempodisciple said:


> Basically what the above people have said. I don't have a particular source, but just turn on the discovery channel at any given time, or watch a documentary on it, then factcheck what they say, and you'll see what I mean.



Wait a minute...are you trying to tell me they didn't REALLY find a Mermaid :uhyeah:


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## Tez3 (Oct 15, 2012)

Xue Sheng said:


> Wait a minute...are you trying to tell me they didn't REALLY find a Mermaid :uhyeah:



Wow you definitely get better programmes lol, we get stuff about cars, battles etc. I quite like the one where they follow the pilots in Alaska though, it's not a flashy programme, the scenery is enough to make it exciting.


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## Carol (Oct 15, 2012)

crushing said:


> http://dsc.discovery.com/tv-schedules/daily.html
> 
> Need more proof?  lol



Alllrighty then.  (There's a reason I don't watch much television....LOL)


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## Tez3 (Oct 15, 2012)

Carol said:


> Alllrighty then. (There's a reason I don't watch much television....LOL)




Ours isn't too bad, we tend not to have the more lurid 'documentaries' but some of the reality stuff is pants.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Oct 15, 2012)

Xue Sheng said:


> Wait a minute...are you trying to tell me they didn't REALLY find a Mermaid :uhyeah:


They found the mermaid just like they found the horse dragons a few years back (would provide a link, but for the life of me I have no idea where to find it)


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## Xue Sheng (Oct 15, 2012)

kempodisciple said:


> They found the mermaid just like they found the horse dragons a few years back (would provide a link, but for the life of me I have no idea where to find it)



:disgust: DAMN!!!! There goes my research grant :uhyeah:


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## Tames D (Oct 15, 2012)

Carol said:


> Alllrighty then. (There's a reason I don't watch much television....LOL)



Same here. I watch very little tv. Last night was the first time I watched the Discovery channel.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Oct 15, 2012)

Xue Sheng said:


> :disgust: DAMN!!!! There goes my research grant :uhyeah:


No! you didn't lose it yet! I said it's as legitimate as the horse dragons. SO all you have to do is get a research grant to prove they exist, then that obviously means the mermaids must exist as well, so you get another grant! 2 grants for the price of one!


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## Xue Sheng (Oct 15, 2012)

Awsome....NEXT...the Lochness Monster


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## Tez3 (Oct 15, 2012)

Xue Sheng said:


> Awsome....NEXT...the Lochness Monster




Ah but who's to say the Loch Ness monster isn't real? The Loch is hugely deep, not mapped and there's a connection to the sea. It needn't be a 'monster' but certainly it's quite possible there's something there.


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## Bill Mattocks (Oct 15, 2012)

Carol said:


> Yup, that's correct.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papal_ban_of_Freemasonry
> 
> ...



Woah, please stop there.

The Knights of Columbus are not a secret society.  Nor were they founded by the Catholic Church.  They were founded by a Catholic Priest, specifically to support Catholics widows and orphans.  From your link:

_"The primary motivation for the Order was to be a mutual benefit society. As a parish priest in an immigrant community, McGivney saw what could happen to a family when the breadwinner died, and wanted to provide insurance to care for the widows and orphans left behind. He had to temporarily leave his seminary studies to care for his family when his father died.[7] In the late 19th century, Catholics were regularly excluded from labor unions and other organizations that provided social services.[8] In addition, Catholics were either barred from many of the popular fraternal organizations, or, as in the case of Freemasonry, forbidden from joining by the Catholic Church itself. McGivney wished to provide them an alternative. He also believed that Catholicism and fraternalism were not incompatible and wished to found a society that would encourage men to be proud of their American-Catholic heritage.[9]"_

There are no secrets except the terms and phrases we use to identify ourselves to each other, and our initiation/degree ceremonies, and even those are seen on the web, so they're hardly secrets.  I have sworn no oaths; I have merely promised to keep these meager secrets, unless it would be damaging to my conscience to do so, or unless required by law.  That's all.  No oaths, no secrets, we are not a secret society.  A Catholic priest is present at every initiation or elevation, either as a Knight or as a witness.  We do nothing that does not conform to Catholic rules, dogma, or beliefs.  We are Catholic, but we are not part of the Catholic Church.

Having read a lot of the websites that purport to 'reveal the secrets' of the Knights of Columbus and ROARING with laughter at how insanely wrong they are, I can only assume that similar websites that seek to 'unmask' the Freemasons are similar.  People come up with some amazing stuff to fit their bizarre world views.

However, with that said, I know that Catholics are forbidden from joining the Freemasons to this day.  Period.  A given priest may give other advice; it's not unusual to find priests who believe differently than the official Church stance on a variety of things, but it still is forbidden by the Church, and that is all that matters to me.


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## Xue Sheng (Oct 15, 2012)

Tez3 said:


> Ah but who's to say the Loch Ness monster isn't real? The Loch is hugely deep, not mapped and there's a connection to the sea. It needn't be a 'monster' but certainly it's quite possible there's something there.



Reality.... whose talking reality.... I'm not saying it isn't real.... I want a research grant to find out more about it.... I  thinking the Discovery Channel (USA) will be all over this with special effects showing the monster flipping my boat over and attacking Urquhart Castle as I and my crew take refuge inside 

And in an effort to get this thread back on track&#8230;.

That is where we find the holy grail that was put there by the Knights Templar who later became&#8230;.(play dramatic music)&#8230;. the Freemasons

This of course leads to part 2 and..you guessed it... MORE grant money


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## Bob Hubbard (Oct 15, 2012)

I have 1 "issue" with the Masons.  Y'all don't do brick work anymore. 
2 "Issues" with the KOC.  1 is political. The other has to do with an unpleasant encounter with 1 years back.
But, from my limited knowledge of both orgs, they seem to be decent.


Bill, the political you can guess at given my positions on certain issues, so no need to go into that one here.  The encounter has to do with my being in possession of my late step fathers sword. I made mention of having it to someone in a local lodge some years back, who got quite agitated and insistent that I give it to him for them to "reclaim". He cited 'laws' and 'agreements' and whatnot and was quite the PITA until I left that company and got away from him. 


I do however find the descriptions of lodge rituals from all the "societies" to be entertaining, though what 'involved friends' have said they are rare these days. As to 'running the world', not unless it involved card games, cigar smoking and fine spirits, lol.


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## Carol (Oct 15, 2012)

Bill Mattocks said:


> Woah, please stop there.
> 
> The Knights of Columbus are not a secret society.  Nor were they founded by the Catholic Church.  They were founded by a Catholic Priest, specifically to support Catholics widows and orphans.  From your link:
> 
> ...



Thanks for the correction!  Sorry about that, I was reading things in to the article that weren't there.   I don't have much experience with the KofC, other than occasionally collecting items for a local drive.  I don't have an issue with the Knights, its just not an org that I put much effort in to getting to know, since its a fraternal group.


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## Bill Mattocks (Oct 15, 2012)

Bob Hubbard said:


> Bill, the political you can guess at given my positions on certain issues, so no need to go into that one here.  The encounter has to do with my being in possession of my late step fathers sword. I made mention of having it to someone in a local lodge some years back, who got quite agitated and insistent that I give it to him for them to "reclaim". He cited 'laws' and 'agreements' and whatnot and was quite the PITA until I left that company and got away from him.



You mean this?

http://www.kofcsupplies.com/index.php?app=ccp0&ns=prodshow&ref=M4I



Only Fourth Degree Knights wear what is known as 'regalia', and they can buy it themselves.

http://www.kofc.org/en/fourth/index.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_of_Columbus

The only thing I can think of regarding the sword would be if it belonged to the council of which your step-father was a member, and loaned to him, in which case I could understand them wanting it back.  Was this person a member of the same council as your late step-father, where he would be in a position to know?


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## Bill Mattocks (Oct 15, 2012)

Carol said:


> Thanks for the correction!  Sorry about that, I was reading things in to the article that weren't there.   I don't have much experience with the KofC, other than occasionally collecting items for a local drive.  I don't have an issue with the Knights, its just not an org that I put much effort in to getting to know, since its a fraternal group.



It is indeed a fraternal group.  We do most our charity work for the ARC and of course for the Church itself.


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## Bob Hubbard (Oct 15, 2012)

Looks similar though the one I have is silverish with a black handle.  Wasn't the same council AFAIK, and he'd had it for years. I remember holding it as a rugrat at my great grandmothers.  The guy who wanted it never said anything about loaners, just that they were 'required' to be turned in at death. Sounded fishy to me and it's one of the few things I have from my step dad.



Bill Mattocks said:


> You mean this?
> 
> http://www.kofcsupplies.com/index.php?app=ccp0&ns=prodshow&ref=M4I
> 
> ...


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## Bill Mattocks (Oct 15, 2012)

Bob Hubbard said:


> Looks similar though the one I have is silverish with a black handle.  Wasn't the same council AFAIK, and he'd had it for years. I remember holding it as a rugrat at my great grandmothers.  The guy who wanted it never said anything about loaners, just that they were 'required' to be turned in at death. Sounded fishy to me and it's one of the few things I have from my step dad.



Yeah, that is fishy.  It is not unusual for a Fourth Degree Knight to bequeath his regalia to the council he belongs to, because as you can see from the link I sent you, that stuff isn't cheap, and not all Knights can afford it.  But I am absolutely unaware of any requirement for a Knight to give up his regalia at death.  It's private property, paid for by that member, unless borrowed from someone.


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## Carol (Oct 15, 2012)

Bill Mattocks said:


> It is indeed a fraternal group.  We do most our charity work for the ARC and of course for the Church itself.



Nothing wrong with fraternal groups...I just haven't spent much time learning about them.  Many guys aren't familiar with Ladies Acapella choirs in their area for similar reasons 

One drive I do remember very well was in the 1990s, when the local KofC spearheaded a fundraising campaign to purchase an AED (cardiac defibrillator) for the local fire department.     The city had the the means to purchase two, but there were three fire stations in the city.  Purchasing the third meant a fire truck with an AED would be within easy reach of all of the city residents (and all 3 first responders were sent on EMS calls).  People from all around the city, Catholic or otherwise, were talking about the fundraiser.   One of the old-timers from my church (who was a Knight) was relaying a story about having their table set up (somewhere) the previous weekend to collect deposit bottles and cans.   A middle-aged Hindu woman approached them in traditional dress and said with tears in her eyes that she had lost her younger sister at home in India due to a sudden cardiac arrest, and handed the Knights an envelope saying that she hoped that maybe someone else's sister can be saved.

Inside the envelope was a $300.00 check.


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## Tez3 (Oct 15, 2012)

Boys and their gangs.


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