# Wrong Karate School...Please Help



## Avcrad (Oct 23, 2003)

Hello,
I am new to this forum & need some advice.  I am 26 years old and have studied martial arts most of my life.  I recently moved out of state with my job.  I soon found a new school to study at, within a 30 minute drive away.  To make a long story short, I went to the school.  They told me they taught Ed Parker's American Kenpo.  Before signing with them, I asked the program director if they gave private instruction.  I was told yes, they do, but also told "I would prefer class instruction".  I signed a 1 year contract with them.  At first, everything was fine.  I was making at least 3 classes a week, working my Kenpo in between off times at work.  Things got busy at work and I could only make 1 class a week.  I again went back to the program director and asked again about private instruction...I felt that Private Lessons would work better with my job schedule.  I was then told a group class was all they had to offer at that time, and was told, "Just try and make as many classes as you can"...

Keep listening, as this is only part of my problem...

Upon learning the basics and techniques in the first two belts, I realized this was not the Parker Kenpo as Ed Parker taugh it.  I noticed techniques that were in the Yellow Belt were nowhere found in any Parker System Kenpo School, In fact, they were ALL variations of the SAME technique...something made up by the Head Instructor.  I then begin to see techniques in the Orange Belt that Ed Parker had laid out as Blue & Green Belt techniques...Moral of the story...?  This WAS NOT Ed Parker Kenpo!  What can I do about this????  Now I feel I am locked into a contract with a school that refuses to work with my busy schedule, and that claims to teach a System of Kenpo that it is clearly not.....Please advise....Thanks, Avcrad


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## Ceicei (Oct 23, 2003)

Re-read your contract and see if there are specific clauses that would allow you to get out of your contract.

With your situation, it probably would have been better to start month to month to accommodate your schedule and to get to know the instructors and their system well enough.   Since you learned this the hard way, don't beat yourself about it.  Sit back and look at what possible actions you can take about it.

If trying to discuss and resolve this amicably doesn't work, you might have recourse by using legal means if you feel that you were misled with what you thought you were getting.

That being said, some thoughts of my own that may not be applicable to your situation...

A reasonable instructor who cares about his students and want to maintain good relationships and the reputation of his school "should" be willing to work with you and modify/change the terms of the contract with the express purpose of retaining good students.  

These good instructors don't come along as often as they should--unfortunately.  The sad part is there seem to be more instructors/owners that care for the financial aspect than for the well-being of students and the school's reputation of being fair.

The only good I see for yearly contracts is when you are already *very very* comfortable with the martial arts system, know your instructors and teaching style, the schedule (theirs and yours), and have liberal clauses that allow a way out.   A yearly contract that fits this criteria can save money.

- Ceicei


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## Michael Billings (Oct 23, 2003)

Unfortunatly in the US, most schools require contracts.  It is the rule ... not the exception.

A couple of other questions:

1.  Do you like what is being taught, even if it is not what you expected?

2.  Regardless of material, are they teaching principles, concepts, and theories as found in Ed Parker's Infinite Insights and Encyclopeda of Kenpo?

3.  What is your instructor's lineage, i.e. who was his teacher, and how far back does it go before Ed Parker was the primary instructor?

There are several branches of Kenpo that are not Ed Parker, there are some that ARE Ed Parker derived, but so far back that the material is different seeming.  It tends to be more technique driven as verses concept driven.  A couple of these who do teach a earlier derivation of EPAK are James Ibrao, Chuck Sullivan, and even the Tracy or TRACO lineage systems (and they are HUGE).  So don't discount what is taught until you are sure of the content now and later on.

You really appear unhappy about the contract itself and being locked in, plus the instructor's lack of flexibility.  You talked to him once, did you offer any suggestions or request something specifically?  For example, can you give me an extra few months since I can only attend once a week, or can I get a private a month to make up for material I am missing?  You may have to pay for the private, or it may be that he is willing to work with you if you have a good attitude and are willing to stay late some night.  

It is hard for me to offer suggestions without having a bit more information.  But my suggestion, for what it is worth, is talk more to your instructor, if he is so busy you hate to interrupt, set an appointment to "visit with him."  Express your concerns, ask your questions, and see if he has any suggestions other than "come when you can."

He may not know how serious and committed you are to learning due to your inability to be there as much as you want.  Good luck and I hope it works out.

-Michael


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## Avcrad (Oct 23, 2003)

To answer your question Michael:

I did NOT like what I was being taught...I joined the school believing I was going to be taught Parker Kenpo.  I feel I was learning one man's personal interpretation of Parker Kenpo.  I found some quotes online at www.americankenpo.com that are quite relevant to my current situation:

"...there is only one Ed Parker System of Kenpo Karate, and that is the system Ed Parker left to his wife and family. All others are "AMERICAN KENPO", if, and only if they teach what Ed Parker established as American Kenpo."

"Three years before his death on December 15, 1990 - Ed Parker published Volume V of INFINITE INSIGHTS INTO KENPO. In this book he set forth the minimum requirements for each belt. Those requirements would specify the exact techniques to be taught; the order in which they should be taught and the kata/s required."

"The comparison is very simple - if an instructor is NOT teaching what Ed Parker set up as the MINIMUM requirements for each belt, he/she is not teaching "American Kenpo" 

"Now when an "INSTRUCTOR" or "Association" claims to be teaching American Kenpo all a student has to do is compare Ed Parkers "MINIMUM BELT REQUIREMENTS" against what is being taught by any instructor of association."

As to the instructors lineage, that is unknown to me.  There are several pictures hanging in the studio showing several of this schools instructors posing with prominent Kenpoists Larry Tatum, and Jeff Speakman, but upon checking into lineage of the head instructor through 25 most prominent Kenpo Artists today, his name fails to come up on any of their lineage.

As to the contract itself, I dont mind being "locked in" to a contract if that is what I signed up to study.  I've talked to both senior instructors & the program director concerning my scheduling conflicts.  I asked them if there was any way we could reformulate  our contractual agreement to revolve around private instruction.  I was told my contract would stand "as is".  I did have the option of paying $30.00 for 1, 30 min private lesson a week but was still obligated in paying the monthly 89.00 tuition, regardless if I could make it to class or not.  I personally feel that this school owner is aware of my situation, and just doesnt care.  It seems this guy is more concerned with getting money out of his students, rather than getting knowledge into his students.

As to taking legal action against them, I dont have the time, nor the finances to do that at this time.  I would rather spend my money finding another school in the area to continue my MA studies.  The only clauses in the schools contract relating to termination of agreement states, "only upon disability or death".  To be honest, they can eat their contract...they won't get another penny from me...


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## CoolKempoDude (Oct 23, 2003)

Avcrad,

did you pay them a whole year already ?????

if not, just consider 80 buck is charity.....you should file your complain to better business bureau and state attorney general

these people will get the job done for you. Yes, it is FREE....why not try


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## M F (Oct 23, 2003)

My opinion on this matter?
If you were made to believe you were going to be learning "Ed Parker's American Kenpo", and they are not teaching what they told you they were, they are not fulfilling their end of the agreement.  I would consider the contract void.  It sounds as if they are misrepresenting the art they are teaching.  I wouldn't stand for it.  That said, I may not have all the facts.  You have to decide what is best for you.


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## Seig (Oct 23, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Avcrad _
> *
> "...there is only one Ed Parker System of Kenpo Karate, and that is the system Ed Parker left to his wife and family. All others are "AMERICAN KENPO", if, and only if they teach what Ed Parker established as American Kenpo."
> 
> ...


Those statements are money driven.  They totally doscount other curriculuums that were approved by Ed Parker.  My insertion here is to not restart the 34-24-16 debate but to urge you to keep a slightly more open mind.  As far as the contract goes, depending on your state, most martial arts school contracts are easily breakable and unenforeable.  If there are not certain clauses in them, they are null and void.  For example, there must be a clause that states the contract is voidable if agreed upon by both parties.  As someone else brought up, if they are not teaching Ed Parker's Kenpo and the contract says they are, you have a breach.  Speak to someone who is versed in the laws of your state.


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## Goldendragon7 (Oct 24, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Avcrad _*
> I did NOT like what I was being taught...I joined the school believing I was going to be taught Parker Kenpo.  I feel I was learning one man's personal interpretation of Parker Kenpo.
> *



I truly sympathize with your predicament!  This is not easy and always a difficult issue.  I hope you realize that Kenpo is not at fault but rather the individual studio owner involved, you are not the first on this ground and probably won't be the last.  I hope you find an equitable solution to the issues.

As to the Kenpo quotes you found on the web, there are many issues there.  "ALL" of the Instructors today, for the past 13 years, and forward into the future, all will teach only their personal interpretation of Parker Kenpo. Only Ed Parker could teach his own system truly. However, there are many a fine instructors that have always and still teach Ed Parker's system.  Each has their own methods of transmitting the material but still are considered Ed Parker Kenpo.  

The curriculums have little to do with legitimacy of Parker's Kenpo, most today have adopted the 16 technique curriculum that Ed Parker was working on prior to his passing which contains all them material of the 24 technique system, but spread out a little longer is all.   Ed Parker was always "tweaking" his baby.... so this is a weak area for comparison.

The real question is the "quality" of the exact material you are receiving.  If the apple falls close to the tree it is fine..... if it falls miles away... then one must ask why.... is this  material been watered down or had major instructor changes by someone that is less than qualified, or blended with another art.  Then you have a good case.

If the instructor doesn't have a strong lineage to Ed Parker then I would certainly question that.

Don't give up on American Kenpo but watch out for instructors that don't teach what they say.



> _Originally posted by Avcrad _*
> I was told my contract would stand "as is".   I personally feel that this school owner is aware of my situation, and just doesn't care.  It seems this guy is more concerned with getting money out of his students, rather than getting knowledge into his students.
> *



I agree with you here, again it is the personal that are giving you a hard time and not the system.

:asian:


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## don bohrer (Oct 24, 2003)

Avcrad,

Try the better business burea. Perhaps they can help. BTW is there a website of the school we can check out?

don


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## tarabos (Oct 29, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Avcrad _
> *I did NOT like what I was being taught...*



can you say specifically _what_ you don't like about it? if you are basing this dislike on the cirriculum of your instructor alone, then you may be jumping the gun a bit.

however, if you feel that the instruction you are receiving is just plain poor, and isn't helping you improve at all, then it would be time to leave, regarless of the art.

keep in mind, good Parker Kenpo schools aren't exactly a dime a dozen anymore. just because your instructor has tweaked his cirriculum signifigantly in terms of techniques, it doesn't mean he has tweaked the things that matter the most in Ed Parker's art. if this is a good school that teaches good martial arts, then i would recommend you stay and see what it has to offer. no of us here on this board, however, can really say what is best without actually going to the school and working out there.

EDIT: from what i read in you last post on martialtalk, you have moved on. good luck to you.


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## Touch Of Death (Oct 29, 2003)

The beauty of a one year contract, for a karate school, is that its generaly more trouble than the worth of the contract to fight it. I would go work out and use the bodies provided. Be more carefull next time someone slaps a contract down in front of you


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