# School bus violence



## OULobo (Nov 10, 2003)

Heres's one that's pretty shocking. This is bus footage of a kid pounding the living beegeezus out another kid. It's amazing how much viciousness can come fromsuch a young person. 

WARNING: Its pretty violent. 

http://www.wftv.com/education/2620828/detail.html


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## Shodan (Nov 10, 2003)

Wow- that's pretty crazy.  Are we gonna need security on school buses now too?!

  :asian:  :karate:


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## Zepp (Nov 10, 2003)

I don't know about security, but having an adult on the school bus besides just the bus driver might have helped.  Actually, getting that kid the psychiatric help he obviously needs would probably have prevented this in the first place.


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## Cthulhu (Nov 10, 2003)

Sigh.  This occured in my city.

Hope they send him to Sharpes.  The kids in the juvie unit will have fun with that kid.

Cthulhu


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## arnisador (Nov 11, 2003)

I couldn't get the video to work.


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## Eldritch Knight (Nov 11, 2003)

Damn. I only hear about stuff like that happening - actually seeing it is pretty scary. What I'm most annoyed about is that bus driver who did virtually nothing to restrain the obviously dangerous kid in any forceful manner.


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## Cthulhu (Nov 11, 2003)

1) I believe it was a female bus driver, and it's very likely she thought she'd also get beaten if she tried to intervene.  She can be heard calling for the police over the radio, though.

2) They don't get paid enough to risk grevious bodily harm.

Cthulhu


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## pknox (Nov 11, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Eldritch Knight _
> *Damn. I only hear about stuff like that happening - actually seeing it is pretty scary. What I'm most annoyed about is that bus driver who did virtually nothing to restrain the obviously dangerous kid in any forceful manner. *



That is kind of sad, but I bet if asked about it, he probably will claim he was afraid of a lawsuit.  I've personally heard of cases where teachers and other school employees have "looked the other way" during a fight on school property - the reason often given for this is that if either of the participants are hurt in any way while the adult is breaking up the fight, the adult could be responsible for any damages that result.  To my knowledge, in NJ, where I live, nobody has successfully sued a teacher/school employee for _not_ acting, but unfortunately, there have been lawsuits pursued when they _did_ act, even when their acting resulted in likely prevention of a major injury.  In many cases, it seems that many people are now more worried about covering their own posterior than anyone's safety.  Evidently this is a consequence of the hyper-litigous society in which we now live.  Personally, I'd rather be sued than see a kid beaten to death in front of me, but evidently not everybody feels that way.


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## OULobo (Nov 12, 2003)

The strange part is after, what was appearantly, a pretty sound schelacking, the kid (victim) still just got up and walked off the bus. I would've thought that after a beat down like that he would have trouble walking if he was even conscious.


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## satans.barber (Nov 12, 2003)

The most shocking thing about this is that none of the other kids did anything.

Without replaying the video, there were about 7 other kids on that bus as well as the driver, and they just stood there either watching or shouting! If there's a physical fight going on, from what I've seen, shouting for them to pack it in generally isn't going to get much done, you need to physically drag people apart.

If it's two people mutually squaring up to each other, fair enough, it's their decision to fight, but that poor kid was clearly attacked and it looked pretty much one sided to me.

Presumably the other kids on the bus would have known the people involved, didn't they care about their friend enough to drag off the guy beating him senseless?

Ian.


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## qizmoduis (Nov 12, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Cthulhu _
> *1) I believe it was a female bus driver, and it's very likely she thought she'd also get beaten if she tried to intervene.  She can be heard calling for the police over the radio, though.
> 
> 2) They don't get paid enough to risk grevious bodily harm.
> ...



Not only that, but I'm fairly certain that bus drivers aren't allowed to leave their seats while children are on the bus.


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## Cthulhu (Nov 12, 2003)

> _Originally posted by satans.barber _
> *The most shocking thing about this is that none of the other kids did anything.
> 
> Without replaying the video, there were about 7 other kids on that bus as well as the driver, and they just stood there either watching or shouting! If there's a physical fight going on, from what I've seen, shouting for them to pack it in generally isn't going to get much done, you need to physically drag people apart.
> ...



Unfortunately, I think that attitude is prevalent in the United States.  People are more apt to stand by and merely watch a spectacle like that rather than interfere or intervene.  In fact, with most grade school kids, chances are they'd start cheering for the fighters rather than break them up.

Chalk it up to parents letting the TV teach their children morals, or assuming they'll learn ethics and morals from their teachers.  Sorry, but that's not what the teachers get paid to do!

Cthulhu


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## TheRustyOne (Nov 12, 2003)

Yeah. That's crazy. Kids are more willing to stand by and watch while a fight goes on...ever see one in school? Huge crowd, and the only ones trying to break the kids up are the teachers. Everyone else is egging them on.

I've never seen crap like that on the bus before. Wost I've seen is that one kid got shoved and his butt cracked the window (hard shove or a really bony butt!), and someone got on the bus and outta no where punched the guy who was my boyfriend at the time and gave him a bloody lip. Probably cuz he had a lisp and was teased about being gay. Accusations weren't true.

Grade school kids have lots of anger. It's kinda sad.


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## RCastillo (Nov 12, 2003)

> _Originally posted by OULobo _
> *The strange part is after, what was appearantly, a pretty sound schelacking, the kid (victim) still just got up and walked off the bus. I would've thought that after a beat down like that he would have trouble walking if he was even conscious. *



Plus, the kid ended up with a broken nose, and the other idiot was arrested, for assult.


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## albert (Nov 12, 2003)

moral of the story: sometimes a preemptive attack is necessary to prevent you from getting hurt.
from the advancers body language it was fairly apparent that he was going to attack. hell, i probably would've attacked after he missed that sloppy hook in the beginning of the video.


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## pknox (Nov 12, 2003)

> _Originally posted by albert _
> *moral of the story: sometimes a preemptive attack is necessary to prevent you from getting hurt.
> from the advancers body language it was fairly apparent that he was going to attack. hell, i probably would've attacked after he missed that sloppy hook in the beginning of the video. *



Absolutely true.  Sometimes a pre-emptive attack is your only choice.  But you must remember that you are a martial artist, and the person who was attacked very well may not have been.  If you have no training, and are attacked, panic and confusion are natural reactions.  Reaction to the strike would have been tough enough; to sense an impending attack and launch into an attack of your own, well I don't know if that's even an option to the untrained.  I'm sure the kid is now running through a million things in his head that he "could have done", but the fact may have been that he wasn't prepared for what happened.  That is one of the reasons why we train in the first place - we can all think of different approaches we might have tried based on the arts we study - the ground grapplers may have shot in at the legs under that hook and did a takedown, the standup guys might have intercepted with a punch or a kick, the aikidoka might have blended with the attack and executed a joint lock or throw, and the close combat guys would have just stabbed or shot him  ; however, the one thing we all have in common, if our training has taken well, is we would have at least tried to do _something_, because we would have hopefully been able to overcome the panic that is a natural part of the situation.  Dissecting the attack purely as a martial artist, I feel that is the real lesson to be learned here.  Train train train.  And when you're done, train some more.  When your actions are instinctive, your at least part of the way there.


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## albert (Nov 13, 2003)

i agree mostly. but he should've definitely known an attack was coming, even untrained, after the first punch was thrown. since the bully was advancing it should have been obvious that he was going to punch again. 
constant training is indeed the key.


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## littleyahiko (Nov 13, 2003)

> _Originally posted by satans.barber _
> *The most shocking thing about this is that none of the other kids did anything.
> 
> Without replaying the video, there were about 7 other kids on that bus as well as the driver, and they just stood there either watching or shouting! If there's a physical fight going on, from what I've seen, shouting for them to pack it in generally isn't going to get much done, you need to physically drag people apart.
> ...



     I don't know all of your guys' ages, but having just got out of high school, let me explain some of the regulations.  First off, if I'm in a fight, and by being in a fight I mean a kid punched me in the face, I fell down and that was the end of it, I'm going to get suspended.  That's right, I was just jacked in the face and now I'm suspended, something that goes on my permanent record.  The regulations of school are so ridiculously unfair nowadays, under the title "Safe Schools Act" which is complete ********. 

     Secondly, it's not the kids job to get the two apart.  A few of the kids on the bus were girls.  And the bully was obvioulsy bigger than most of the kids.  In an adrenaline situation like that, how can we even expect probably untrained children to break apart a fight.  And then when the school board gets it, it's not going to be seen as them breaking it apart, all the kids who were involved are going to be in big trouble, trust me.  
I've seen many fights in school, and not once have I ever seen friends help their buddy and break it apart.  This I'm no exactly sure why.  I don't think we can presume that kid had friends on the bus, so I won't specifically comment about that.  But in my real-life experiences I have never seen it happen, maybe it's a matter of pride, or maybe these people need to get new friends.  If my friend was getting pounded I sure wouldn't stand idly by yelling at them to stop.

     In conclusion, I think what we saw was a horrible reality, and yet a wake up call.  Let us presume that the kid did have his best friend on the bus, and he did nothing.  Those situations can show you who you're true best friends are, it's a grim reality, but we have to face it nonetheless.


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## lvwhitebir (Nov 13, 2003)

> _Originally posted by littleyahiko _
> *I've seen many fights in school, and not once have I ever seen friends help their buddy and break it apart.  This I'm no exactly sure why. *



This is actually very common.  The greater number of people involved in a situation like this (it can be someone having a heart attack, a fire, or a fight) the less likely any one of them will respond to it.  That's why if you respond you should specifically point to someone and tell them what to do.  Then it's not just "someone's" responsibility, but it's "mine."

It's the bully's fault that this happened and no one else's.  I wouldn't be too down on anyone else involved because of the nature of group mentality.  In this situation, the bully should be arrested and charged with assault.

WhiteBirch


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## Ceicei (Nov 13, 2003)

Does anyone know what the end result was with this situation?  What happened with these two kids?

- Ceicei


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## TheRustyOne (Nov 13, 2003)

> _Originally posted by littleyahiko _
> *I don't know all of your guys' ages, but having just got out of high school, let me explain some of the regulations.  First off, if I'm in a fight, and by being in a fight I mean a kid punched me in the face, I fell down and that was the end of it, I'm going to get suspended.  That's right, I was just jacked in the face and now I'm suspended, something that goes on my permanent record.  The regulations of school are so ridiculously unfair nowadays, under the title "Safe Schools Act" which is complete ********.*



I hear ya! I just came from high school a few years ago, and my school had that. Load of bullfeathers that is cuz it doesn't stop fights at all. And I've seen it where someone gets hit and the attacker gets off scott free! dang shame we have crap like that floating around.


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## FUZZYJ692000 (Nov 13, 2003)

This act of violence is highly disturbing.  I know that in my high school my senior year there within the first 2 weeks of school there had been 10 fights...record breaking I'm sure!!!  Most of the post are right though when it comes to people not getting invovled.  I can't remember how to spell it but a number of years ago a woman was stabbed outside her apartment building in California.  She was stabbed over 20 times while neighbors watched outside the windows and she screamed for help.  Her attacker even managed to leave and she crawled to the apartment and tried to buzz people for help.  No one came to help her, no one called the police.  Her attacker returned and finished her off.  This isn't saying much for the society which we live in actually.  If i'm being attacked I want someone to call the police, i want to know that someone will at least try and help in that sense.  Things like this happen all the time in schools and it's sad to see.  One of my friends was hospitalized for 2 weeks in high school when he got jumped by 3 guys in the hall.  By the time my friend and I worked our way through the encouraging crowd the attackers had taken off and everyone departed while he was left there bleeding on the floor.  I say if a teacher hurts a student in a fight, good for them, most of the students are bigger and stronger than the teachers are any how.  It's really sad that you can't even go to school to learn without being scared of the violence within.


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## TheRustyOne (Nov 13, 2003)

That's a lotta fights there, fuzzy.


And before that stupid act came around, only the attacker would get in trouble, but even then, it'd be one day of in school. You get more punishment for walking out or cutting than for fighting.


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## OULobo (Nov 13, 2003)

> _Originally posted by FUZZYJ692000 _
> *This act of violence is highly disturbing.  I know that in my high school my senior year there within the first 2 weeks of school there had been 10 fights...record breaking I'm sure!!!  Most of the post are right though when it comes to people not getting invovled.  I can't remember how to spell it but a number of years ago a woman was stabbed outside her apartment building in California.  She was stabbed over 20 times while neighbors watched outside the windows and she screamed for help.  Her attacker even managed to leave and she crawled to the apartment and tried to buzz people for help.  No one came to help her, no one called the police.  Her attacker returned and finished her off.  This isn't saying much for the society which we live in actually.  If i'm being attacked I want someone to call the police, i want to know that someone will at least try and help in that sense.  Things like this happen all the time in schools and it's sad to see.  One of my friends was hospitalized for 2 weeks in high school when he got jumped by 3 guys in the hall.  By the time my friend and I worked our way through the encouraging crowd the attackers had taken off and everyone departed while he was left there bleeding on the floor.  I say if a teacher hurts a student in a fight, good for them, most of the students are bigger and stronger than the teachers are any how.  It's really sad that you can't even go to school to learn without being scared of the violence within.  *



I remember once a fight happened in my high school that I didn't know about and 30 min. later I walked by the site of the fight and found a large clump of scalp and hair on the floor. The fight was between two girls and one pulled out the hair of the other. Brutal. 

The story you are talking about sounds exactly like the famous rape and murder of Kitty Genovese in New York. I think it was in Hell's Kitchen during the 50s or 60s. People just told the murderer to "be quiet" and "leave her alone", but none of them even bothered to call the police. Its pretty a sad case.


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## lvwhitebir (Nov 14, 2003)

> _Originally posted by TheRustyOne _
> *And before that stupid act came around, only the attacker would get in trouble,  *



I think zero-tolerance came about because it was virtually impossible to determine the true attacker.  Most fights start over stupid things (almost always ego related) and both of them say that the other started it.  What else can you do than cite them both as guilty?  I don't really disagree with the policy, it sure makes you want to stay out of trouble, even the receiving end.

If it's a true self-defense situation, one in which you're trying to escape and not punish, charges should be filed for assault against the attacker.  If not, then you're fighting and should be punished, plain and simple to me.

The same goes with adults outside of school.  you get into a fight, the police are likely to charge both of you unless you can reasonably argue that it was self-defense.

WhiteBirch


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## OULobo (Nov 14, 2003)

> _Originally posted by lvwhitebir _
> *I think zero-tolerance came about because it was virtually impossible to determine the true attacker.  Most fights start over stupid things (almost always ego related) and both of them say that the other started it.  What else can you do than cite them both as guilty?  I don't really disagree with the policy, it sure makes you want to stay out of trouble, even the receiving end.
> 
> If it's a true self-defense situation, one in which you're trying to escape and not punish, charges should be filed for assault against the attacker.  If not, then you're fighting and should be punished, plain and simple to me.
> ...



I can't agree with that. The most obvious example is the kid in the video this thread is about. He was sucker punched on the way off the bus, he continued to show passive motions by holding his hands up and he tried to escape by withdrawing farther into the bus. The kid didn't even throw a punch in the fight. How can you justify punishing him for this. Even if he provoked the fight, of which there is no proof, the other kid decided to turn it physical. That's the differance between the two that should make the differance in punishment. Only the agressor reverted to physical violence.


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## JDenz (Nov 14, 2003)

Hey I have seen some bad fights on my school bus and I went to a suberban school.  We used to ride the bus with the older kids when I went to school so they would always pick on us.  Anyways me and my friend ended up getting in a fight with them because we would not get out of our seats and stand so they could sit so they jacked up my friend who was huge and me who was small, well long story short we ended up getting in a huge fight his head went threw a window.  We got kicked off the bus for a month and we all got one day of suspension.  mind you we were four years younger then the older kids probley closer to 5 since we were in fourth and they were in 8th grade.  After that year they changed the start times of the schools so they started earlier then us.  Another time my friend started dating this girl and it was this other guys ex girlfriend,  and he came on our bus to fight my friend.  Neither of us knew him so he cracked my friend in the back of his head he feel into the emergancey door and got a huge cut he needed stitches for he jumped on my buddy, I grabbed him tied him up since we were still at school we had to all get on the bus we all got the same 2 days inschool suspension so we all had to sit in a room together for two days.  It was crazy.


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## JDenz (Nov 14, 2003)

By the way I don't really think it is teachers jobs to get in fights.  My friend is student teaching now and they told him never to break up a fight because the school will not defend him if the parents sue the school or the teacher, they are not allowed to touch the students only verbally warn them.  I think the bus driver did the best she could in the situation she was in.  She was a lady that could barley make it down the Aisle what was she supposed to do.  I like that kid he just got up and left lol he was tough.  
PALM BAY, Fla. -- This was no typical after school fight. Palm Bay Police say it's one of the worst beatings they've ever seen. A student repeatedly punched a boy on the bus until he was too tired to hit his victim anymore. 

Video 


Student Is Repeatedly Punched On School Bus   






Not strange enough? Read more strange news from WFTV.com.  


The bus driver immediately radioed for police when the violence began and they hauled that student off to jail. This all happened as the Palm Bay High School students were on their way home from school Thursday afternoon. 

Police investigators were shocked when they saw the severity of the violent attack caught on tape. It all starts innocently enough. A student sitting in the back throws a small football or paper wad toward the front of the bus.  

"We don't know if there's any background between the two young people," says Lt. Dave Crispin, Palm Bay Police Department. 

It apparently angered one student and, about four minutes later, when a student from the back of the bus tries to exit, a swing is thrown at him. The bus driver tries to grab the suspect, but he continues after the student. 


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"The victim immediately started backing up, which is a clear sign to anybody that's being aggressive that there's no need to continue the attack," explains Lt. Crispin. 

But the attack continues. The suspect pummels the student, repeatedly punching him in the face and upper body. 

The bus driver calls for help and tries to get the beating to stop. But the suspect doesn't listen. 

The suspect ignores the bus driver and continues to pound away. Other students get out of the way and also try to get him to stop. After picking up the student and throwing him on the seat, the attack finally stops, 47 seconds later. 

The beating suspect was arrested by police and charged with battery and disruption of an educational institution and he could be expelled.
Copyright 2003 by wftv.com. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.


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## RCastillo (Nov 15, 2003)

> _Originally posted by JDenz _
> *Hey I have seen some bad fights on my school bus and I went to a suberban school.  We used to ride the bus with the older kids when I went to school so they would always pick on us.  Anyways me and my friend ended up getting in a fight with them because we would not get out of our seats and stand so they could sit so they jacked up my friend who was huge and me who was small, well long story short we ended up getting in a huge fight his head went threw a window.  We got kicked off the bus for a month and we all got one day of suspension.  mind you we were four years younger then the older kids probley closer to 5 since we were in fourth and they were in 8th grade.  After that year they changed the start times of the schools so they started earlier then us.  Another time my friend started dating this girl and it was this other guys ex girlfriend,  and he came on our bus to fight my friend.  Neither of us knew him so he cracked my friend in the back of his head he feel into the emergancey door and got a huge cut he needed stitches for he jumped on my buddy, I grabbed him tied him up since we were still at school we had to all get on the bus we all got the same 2 days inschool suspension so we all had to sit in a room together for two days.  It was crazy. *



And the rest is history, JDenz became a "made man." He now only beats up people for profit. It's the "American" way!


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## TheRustyOne (Nov 15, 2003)

Okay. Interesting fight from my senior year....

One girl (girl A) was talking crap about another girl's (girl B) boyfriend, like "he sleeps with everyone," and worse. Well, girl B did her best to ignore it but after a whole day of this, the turns and decks girl A. Knocks said girl flat on her tushie, and walks away complaining about a broken nail. And this was done right infront of the office where i was student aiding. My friend and I were surprised.


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## JDenz (Nov 15, 2003)

Lol actully I might be fighting in January.  Lol no way I wasn't made then lol.


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## RCastillo (Nov 16, 2003)

> _Originally posted by JDenz _
> *Lol actully I might be fighting in January.  Lol no way I wasn't made then lol. *



Well, I guess the betting line will be long?


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## JDenz (Nov 16, 2003)

ya lol just make sure you bet whatever I do lol.


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## Touch Of Death (Nov 16, 2003)

I don't know what fight you guys were watching but I think the victim did a great job by getting out of the way of as many punches as he did. I'm not seeing the horror that everyone else sees. It wasn't very brutal.


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## JDenz (Nov 16, 2003)

I don't think it was that brutal they were just kids, he defintly did not want to fight though.


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## RCastillo (Nov 16, 2003)

> _Originally posted by JDenz _
> *ya lol just make sure you bet whatever I do lol. *



See you in Atlantic City!


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## JDenz (Nov 16, 2003)

lol that would be sweet.


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## lvwhitebir (Nov 17, 2003)

> _Originally posted by OULobo _
> *I can't agree with that. The most obvious example is the kid in the video this thread is about. He was sucker punched on the way off the bus, he continued to show passive motions by holding his hands up and he tried to escape by withdrawing farther into the bus. The kid didn't even throw a punch in the fight. How can you justify punishing him for this. Even if he provoked the fight, of which there is no proof, the other kid decided to turn it physical. That's the differance between the two that should make the differance in punishment. Only the agressor reverted to physical violence. *



I don't justify punishing him for this.  I'm saying that without the evidence of the video, there wouldn't be anything other than the sides of the kids themselves and I doubt you'd get everyone saying it was one kid's fault over the other.  Friends will stick with their favorite.  That's why there's a zero-tolerance policy.  The video is evidence of his innocence that should be seen by the school administrators.

This video is terrific proof for the courts, too.  The kid who was attacked should be reinstated in school and has a perfect lawsuit against the aggressive kid *and* his parents.

WhiteBirch


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## OULobo (Nov 17, 2003)

> _Originally posted by lvwhitebir _
> *I don't justify punishing him for this.  I'm saying that without the evidence of the video, there wouldn't be anything other than the sides of the kids themselves and I doubt you'd get everyone saying it was one kid's fault over the other.  Friends will stick with their favorite.  That's why there's a zero-tolerance policy.  The video is evidence of his innocence that should be seen by the school administrators.
> 
> This video is terrific proof for the courts, too.  The kid who was attacked should be reinstated in school and has a perfect lawsuit against the aggressive kid *and* his parents.
> ...



agreed


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