# Gun Fu



## skribs (Jan 10, 2020)

Are there martial arts or schools that combine unarmed combat with gunfighting skills?

When I was 21 or 22, I went out and got my CPL and bought my first handgun.  I trained with it for a couple of years, and then I started reading articles that suggested a pistol wasn't always the first line of defense.  I read about the Tueller drill, also read stories of people who were attacked and had to use their martial arts skills to defend themselves.  When I was 24, I decided to get back into martial arts for those situations.

I'm starting to get to the point where I want to come back full circle, and bring my martial arts experience back to the gunfighting concept.  The idea is the focus is on those few seconds between being ambushed and being able to access your firearm, should you need to.  I believe the blocks, grip breaks, and footwork of both Taekwondo and Hapkido will help in achieving this goal.

However, I wanted to see first if this is something that's taught already, or if it's something that kind of gets compartmentalized (i.e. "go to the range to shoot, go to the dojo for martial arts").  No point reinventing the wheel.


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## CB Jones (Jan 10, 2020)

For the most part they are separate.  The only thing that overlaps is weapon retention.

Other than that when your gun is out you should be trying to keep distance or creating distance when drawing.


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## drop bear (Jan 10, 2020)

Wrestling.

And coincidentally a high priority of wrestling is protecting your hips.


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## skribs (Jan 10, 2020)

drop bear said:


> Wrestling.
> 
> And coincidentally a high priority of wrestling is protecting your hips.



You're getting ahead of the question.


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## ShortBridge (Jan 10, 2020)

There is an organization in Bellevue called "Insights" that you might look into.

As far as "martial arts that teach..." The only ones that I can think of that would do so natively are Krav Maga and Systema. Those skills will not appear natively in TMA. Now, you might find teachers or clubs that have integrated TMA training with contemporary firearms training, but not systems generally.


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## drop bear (Jan 10, 2020)

skribs said:


> You're getting ahead of the question.



Ok. So I have carried a bat and I have been ambushed and here is my theory.

If I am getting attacked I can clinch to reduce  being struck. If I clinch well I can control when we separate and under what conditions.

And this is important because if I push away like a maniac and open my hips I am vulnerable to a double leg style attack. And then I am in a much worse position than a clinch.

If I can clinch and angle off I can make space with their back facing me. Or I can clinch and head snap which means the have to stand back up to chase me. I really want to be stuffing their head in to the ground if I can.

Either way it works to prevent this situation where I am running backwards and they are running forwards which while it feels like a natural solution. But I don't think it is technically the best solution.

If we add striking it doesn't change the position that much in this case.

So I head snap and spike them with an uppercut or something.


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## drop bear (Jan 10, 2020)

And so as an example. This amazing specialised gun retention method from a gun specialist?





Because it is certainly not an arm drag.


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## skribs (Jan 10, 2020)

drop bear said:


> Ok. So I have carried a bat and I have been ambushed and here is my theory.
> 
> If I am getting attacked I can clinch to reduce  being struck. If I clinch well I can control when we separate and under what conditions.
> 
> ...



I'm not arguing with you.  I agree with you.  I'm just saying you're getting ahead of the question.  The question is if the style I'm looking at already exists and it's something I should seek to train, or if the style I'm looking at is sparsely available and I should look to develop something instead.


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## ShortBridge (Jan 10, 2020)

There is a Systema school on the south end of Seattle. I know that's not close to you, but it's probably worth checking out at least to see how they train and talk with the instructor about their program.


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## Deleted member 39746 (Jan 11, 2020)

No idea if it exists.  but if you ever do drills and its relivent use simunitions, or some form of firing weapon.  ie paintball/airsoft.  


if i find anything detailed in any manuals, articles etc i will get back to you.    



Oh you might want to check out shivworks, if we are doing places you should look into.   that specilises in close quaters pistol/knife.   If no one has otherwise reccomended them.


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## Gweilo (Jan 12, 2020)

In the USA and Canada, most Systema schools practice gun combat skills, which includes movement, basic protection details used by bodyguards, in drawing the weapon in high pressure and confined situations, as well as defense. I will ask HQ if there are classes/seminars available in your area if you wish, I do know that you do not have to be a Systema student to attend seminars or 5 days intensive training courses.


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## dvcochran (Jan 12, 2020)

drop bear said:


> And so as an example. This amazing specialised gun retention method from a gun specialist?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Are you saying it is a bad drill? 
I used to teach the arm lock portion as shown. I slightly modified the pressure point as a way to help weaken their grip and push the hand/arm straight down off the weapon. From there we taught to drive/step through the person and perform a takedown. Hard to do when they are already pushing against you.  
Back in the day I was pretty confident with attacking the web of the hand but I don't I would be effective with it now (poor grip strength). Even 'back in the day' there were guys I could not make it work on especially if it was in drills where they were expecting it. 

If you do not like this drill, what do you suggest if someone bolts for you sidearm?


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## drop bear (Jan 13, 2020)

dvcochran said:


> Are you saying it is a bad drill?
> I used to teach the arm lock portion as shown. I slightly modified the pressure point as a way to help weaken their grip and push the hand/arm straight down off the weapon. From there we taught to drive/step through the person and perform a takedown. Hard to do when they are already pushing against you.
> Back in the day I was pretty confident with attacking the web of the hand but I don't I would be effective with it now (poor grip strength). Even 'back in the day' there were guys I could not make it work on especially if it was in drills where they were expecting it.
> 
> If you do not like this drill, what do you suggest if someone bolts for you sidearm?



No I am suggesting that if you did wrestling you would be better at arm drags than if you did gun fu. 

You would be getting better expertise from your coaches. 

There will be some specific nuances but the primary concepts are not gun only concepts. 

I am not a gun guy. (Gellball doesn't count)
But I can quickly figure out that if I wear a gun on my right hip. I need to protect that piece of real estate. 

If we changed the gun to a banana and had to protect that. I very much doubt people would suddenly be overwhelmed by the difference. 

What changes mostly is the order of priorities and hierarchy of position.


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