# Who's Who



## Rob Broad (Jul 19, 2004)

So far I have heard of Bujinkan and Genbukan are there any more major schools of Ninpo out there? Who are the major players in these arts. I have heard of Massaki Hatsumi, Stephen K. Hayes, and Robert Bussey, but where do these guys figure into the hierarchy of each organization.


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## Enson (Jul 19, 2004)

Rob Broad said:
			
		

> So far I have heard of Bujinkan and Genbukan are there any more major schools of Ninpo out there? Who are the major players in these arts. I have heard of Massaki Hatsumi, Stephen K. Hayes, and Robert Bussey, but where do these guys figure into the hierarchy of each organization.


don't feel bad if no one comments on this one. i think everyone has returned to there fighting corners for awhile. there is also the jenikan too. those are all off shoots of buji. i think those three men you mention are great and should all be held with the hightest degree of respect.


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## gmunoz (Jul 19, 2004)

Stephen K. Hayes is the founder of To-Shin Do.  He lives in Dayton, Ohio and teaches out of his dojo Quest Center with his wife Rumiko.  He was student of Dr. Matsaaki Hatsumi (Bujinkan).


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## Don Roley (Jul 20, 2004)

I don't feel like typing the same thing twice.

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?p=220200#post220200


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## Deaf (Jul 26, 2004)

gmunoz said:
			
		

> Stephen K. Hayes is the founder of To-Shin Do.  He lives in Dayton, Ohio and teaches out of his dojo Quest Center with his wife Rumiko.  He was student of Dr. Matsaaki Hatsumi (Bujinkan).



Holy S#$T...someone has finally admitted it!  SKH "WAS" a student of Dr. Matsaaki Hatsumi!


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## Rob Broad (Jul 29, 2004)

Again I get negative feedback from the Ninjutsu people.  I was told that this thread is Flamebait.  It seems every time I get negative feedback it comes from this part of MT, and it is never signed.  It must have to do with the training, LOL.  

I created this thread to learn who is who in the world of Ninjutsu these days.


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## gmunoz (Jul 29, 2004)

Rob Broad said:
			
		

> Again I get negative feedback from the Ninjutsu people. I was told that this thread is Flamebait. It seems every time I get negative feedback it comes from this part of MT, and it is never signed. It must have to do with the training, LOL.
> 
> I created this thread to learn who is who in the world of Ninjutsu these days.


Rob,

My sentiments exactly.  Why can't people answer what seems to be a simple question without having to give their smart (not in the honorable sense) remarks?


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## Cryozombie (Jul 29, 2004)

gmunoz said:
			
		

> Rob,
> 
> My sentiments exactly.  Why can't people answer what seems to be a simple question without having to give their smart (not in the honorable sense) remarks?



Yeah, stupid Ninjustu guys.  Damn them all.

Rob, I gave you a positive feedback to counter the negative one of those evil stupid ninjas gave you.


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## ppko (Jul 29, 2004)

:EG:  :waah: This is a great thread I would also like 2 know more about who is who. Rob I am glad to have you here as you have brought up some great posts


PPKO


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## Cryozombie (Jul 29, 2004)

Well, what do you guys really wanna know?

Hatsumi heads up the Bujinkan,

Hayes is the "founder" of Toshindo, formerly of the Bujinkan

Bussey is the "founder" of his... uh... Warrior International I think its called... formerly of the Bujinkan

Rick Tew runs Tew-ryu, which, correct me if I am wrong, is an offshoot of Bussey's school, 

Tanemura heads up the Genbukan, formerly a student of Hatsumi's teacher Takamatsu... 

Manaka (I think) is the head of the Jinenkan... 

I don't know if thats what you were looking for...


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## Jay Bell (Jul 29, 2004)

> Tanemura heads up the Genbukan, formerly a student of Hatsumi's teacher Takamatsu...



This has been disproven.  He trained directly with Takamatsu sensei for a day of bikenjutsu training.  He did however, train with a number of Takamatsu sensei's other very highly trained students.


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## Cryozombie (Jul 29, 2004)

Jay Bell said:
			
		

> This has been disproven.  He trained directly with Takamatsu sensei for a day of bikenjutsu training.  He did however, train with a number of Takamatsu sensei's other very highly trained students.



My bad.


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## Genin Andrew (Jul 29, 2004)

Ummm...the bit about Rick Tew being an "offshoot" of Bussy? I'm pretty sure thats incorrect,but i may be wrong and if i am i will stand corrected.Rick Tew created a "stream of techniques" which he believes to be of some resemblence to the Koga Ninja.I'm quite sure that he wasnt under Bussy.Enson would be the best person to talk to about that. If you want more info on the Koga Ryu i would suggest Don Roleys essay...I cant find the link again but do a search and you will find it.Its quite good.

Sorry if i sound really critical techno! dont mean to be:asian: 

Much respect
-andrew


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## ppko (Jul 29, 2004)

Thank you I really don't know much about Ninjutsu and it is interesting all the arts out there


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## tmanifold (Jul 29, 2004)

> Rick Tew runs Tew-ryu, which, correct me if I am wrong, is an offshoot of Bussey's school,



Tew was a student of Frank Dux and when he realized Dux was crazy he ran for the hills. He is a talented martial artist but what he does is not ninjutsu in the X-kan sense. Btw X-Kan is a term to refer to the the schools descended from Takamatsu, also used is Takamatsu den.

Our own Dale Seago is a Tenth Dan (right Dale?)
There is Jack Hoban who is very highly ranked (14?)
RVD has been mentioned on this forum.

Some Names which are NOT traditional NINJUTSU are:
Ron Duncan
Ashida Kim
Frank Dux
Yo Sato


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## Cryozombie (Jul 29, 2004)

tmanifold said:
			
		

> Tew was a student of Frank Dux and when he realized Dux was crazy he ran for the hills. He is a talented martial artist but what he does is not ninjutsu in the X-kan sense. Btw X-Kan is a term to refer to the the schools descended from Takamatsu, also used is Takamatsu den.
> 
> Our own Dale Seago is a Tenth Dan (right Dale?)
> There is Jack Hoban who is very highly ranked (14?)
> ...



Thats right Tew Ryu is an offshoot of Dux Ryu, I stand corrected.


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## Shogun (Jul 29, 2004)

Speaking of Dale, where have ya been? I think Dale is a Junidan....
and I think Hoban is a 15th dan? not sure though........

some names can be found at the Shidoshi kai website......


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## Dale Seago (Jul 30, 2004)

tmanifold said:
			
		

> Our own Dale Seago is a Tenth Dan (right Dale?)



Right -- plus a few.   :wink2:


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## Enson (Jul 30, 2004)

Genin Andrew said:
			
		

> Ummm...the bit about Rick Tew being an "offshoot" of Bussy? I'm pretty sure thats incorrect,but i may be wrong and if i am i will stand corrected.Rick Tew created a "stream of techniques" which he believes to be of some resemblence to the Koga Ninja.I'm quite sure that he wasnt under Bussy.Enson would be the best person to talk to about that. If you want more info on the Koga Ryu i would suggest Don Roleys essay...I cant find the link again but do a search and you will find it.Its quite good.
> 
> Sorry if i sound really critical techno! dont mean to be:asian:
> 
> ...


man this thread came alive in just a day.

tew sensei was formerly a student (in his teens) of the beloved rolleyes: ) frank dux. (then went on to get i believe was 5th dan in hapkido) after that he went to study under robert bussey and became a senior/cheif instructor. from there he went off and did his own thing. as far as creating a "stream of techniques"... most of his techniques and the moves he does now are very similar to what bussey does. superior art/skill than the duxman? probably. i have seen dux ryu in action and not very many similarities. (although i won't bash dux ryu because they have some very skilled black belts ((too much contraversy for my taste though))  if you watch bussey and tew almost identicle movements. traditional? defenitly not! effective? i believe so. offshoot of bussey? yeah i guess. (aren't we all offshoots in some way?)


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## Jay Bell (Jul 30, 2004)

> aren't we all offshoots in some way?



In a weird way, you're right.  We bring ourselves to the table, personalizing what we do.


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## gmunoz (Jul 30, 2004)

Speaking of "who's who" in Ninjutsu - is there an article out there that would list the lineages or branches of formation of the different styles of Ninjustu out there?  An article or chart?


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## Shogun (Jul 30, 2004)

I have seen a chart, but I dont quite know where it is. or how to get it. it is not complete, not like the BJJ.org lineage chart. they have all members, ranks, etc.


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## Cryozombie (Jul 30, 2004)

gmunoz said:
			
		

> Speaking of "who's who" in Ninjutsu - is there an article out there that would list the lineages or branches of formation of the different styles of Ninjustu out there?  An article or chart?



I know that www.mbdojo.com has lineages for 6 of the Bujinkan schools on their site... I would assume that all the Xkans would use pretty much the same lineages. I dunno about other orgs... But, as most of them can't trace their NINJUTSU lineages back past the 80's, I would think those would be short lists.


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## Genin Andrew (Aug 5, 2004)

Fair call Enson.You made some good points,Like Jay said,in a weird way you're right about "all being 'offshoots' in some way" i havnt seen any more of Rick Tew than in his videos and i havnt seen Dux in action,so i wont bash on anyone.

i stand corrected...to an extent


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