# Responsibility Of and From the Martial Arts



## OnlyAnEgg (Jun 17, 2006)

Funny me, I was listening to a song today.  The song was Postcards From Cambodia, the lyrics of which I have posted elsewhere in the fora.  The song typically starts me thinking about responsibility.  The song speaks mostly of death, weapons and the fallout of both.

Martial Arts is a form of weapon, is it not?  A defensive weapon, true; but, a weapon used in defence still harms, maims and can kill.

So I pose this question:

As an instructor, what responsibilities do you take on in passing Martial Arts to the student?  What are your moral and ethical tasks, as it were, in presenting this skill, this weapon to those who learn from you?

As a student, what responsibilities do you accept in learning a Martial Art?  What do you feel you must do in order to possess these skills properly?

Songs...they always bring it out in me.

I look forward to your responses.


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## Kacey (Jun 17, 2006)

OnlyAnEgg said:
			
		

> As an instructor, what responsibilities do you take on in passing Martial Arts to the student?



I consider it to be my responsibility to teach my students when they can use the skills I am teaching them, and how to determine what level of response is appropriate - when to run, to stand, to yell for help, to block, to strike, to maim, to kill.



			
				OnlyAnEgg said:
			
		

> What are your moral and ethical tasks, as it were, in presenting this skill, this weapon to those who learn from you?



I have the ethical responsibility to teach my students to use their skills appropriately, as I said above.  I therefore find it to be my responsibility to teach them a broader morality, at least in reference to the physical skills, to help them to make the correct determination of level of response.



			
				OnlyAnEgg said:
			
		

> As a student, what responsibilities do you accept in learning a Martial Art?  What do you feel you must do in order to possess these skills properly?



I must learn what, when, and how to respond to a potentially dangerous situation - and how to avoid those situations in the first place.


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## evenflow1121 (Jun 17, 2006)

Martial Arts is a form of weapon, is it not? A defensive weapon, true; but, a weapon used in defence still harms, maims and can kill.

So I pose this question:

As an instructor, what responsibilities do you take on in passing Martial Arts to the student? What are your moral and ethical tasks, as it were, in presenting this skill, this weapon to those who learn from you?

Never to abuse them, while I can not teach them to avoid fights, why? 
Because it is my belief that if your mind is set on avoiding the fight you lose focus on the person standing infront of you that can seriously injure you; I really make it a point to have them understand that once the opponent is down and can not hurt you it is time to stop.  There is no need to seriouly hurt someone much less kill them if they are incapable of hurting you.  No matter how long the technique may be, once the guy is down its over.  

As a student, what responsibilities do you accept in learning a Martial Art? What do you feel you must do in order to possess these skills properly?

It has always been my belief that although most of us paid for our training martial arts is really a gift.  Think about it, for the $50-100 a month an average person pays, think about how much more you have gotten from the martial arts for what you paid, not just in terms of self defense, but in terms of self control, wellness, understanding circumstances better, ect. It has always been my opinion that if you had a good teacher, chances are Martial Arts was a building block in making you a better person.  In that sense, as a student I have to accept that I will for the most part be at an advantage when compared with my opponent.  For one, I know how to fight, another is self control though I (and this is solely my opinion) should bare in mind that when presented with a confrontation my focus should be on the fight and not on walking away from it, there is no need to seriously hurt a person if I have an alternate.  Once he is down, he is down, I do not need to abuse what I have learned in any way.  With the training that I have had, I know I can seriously hurt a person, not just with respect to power, but the techniques involved, ie--how and where to hit a person.  It is my responsibility to defend myself, it is not my job however to go beyond that line and seriously mess someone up.  Just my opinion.


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## trueaspirer (Jun 18, 2006)

The first thing I ever learnt in ma, when I signed up at six years old, was that ma was to be used defensively, to defend yourself and/or others, and never to show off, bully with, or even use casually. This was repeatedly hammered into my head, and it has never left. I believe that this is the right way to go about things. Never forget, with great power comes great responsibility. (I don't remember who said that, but you get the point) 
Btw, I couldn't agree more about the music thing - music works wonders on the soul. As Albus Dumbledore once said, music is the greatest magic.


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## Paul B (Jun 18, 2006)

OnlyAnEgg said:
			
		

> As an instructor, what responsibilities do you take on in passing Martial Arts to the student? What are your moral and ethical tasks, as it were, in presenting this skill, this weapon to those who learn from you?


 
When passing knowledge on I have to make sure that technique is "tempered" by maturity and attitude. My "moral and ethical tasks" is to make sure the students fully understand the ramifications of improper use of Hapkido technique. Teach them how (and when) to make the proper choices and, once the decisions are made,how to see them through to the finish.



			
				OnlyAnEgg said:
			
		

> As a student, what responsibilities do you accept in learning a Martial Art? What do you feel you must do in order to possess these skills properly?


 
When learning new technique it is my responsibility to pay attention and learn the technique thoroughly.


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## Rich Parsons (Jun 18, 2006)

OnlyAnEgg said:
			
		

> Funny me, I was listening to a song today.  The song was Postcards From Cambodia, the lyrics of which I have posted elsewhere in the fora. The song typically starts me thinking about responsibility. The song speaks mostly of death, weapons and the fallout of both.
> 
> Martial Arts is a form of weapon, is it not? A defensive weapon, true; but, a weapon used in defence still harms, maims and can kill.
> 
> So I pose this question:





			
				OnlyAnEgg said:
			
		

> As an instructor, what responsibilities do you take on in passing Martial Arts to the student?



To make sure they, the student, understand what they are learning. Especially with weapons, it is very importatn for them to understand. For they will/should execute their technique as praticed and it may not be the technique they wanted. 



			
				OnlyAnEgg said:
			
		

> What are your moral and ethical tasks, as it were, in presenting this skill, this weapon to those who learn from you?



Morals, Values and Ethics. 

Morals are from a group used to help teach and guide the members of that group. A religion is a quick example of where one may find morals.

Values are what the individual decides is valuable to him. Life, Fredom to vote, etcetera. Many times people find their values from a Moral source such as a Philosophy and or a religion. 

Ethics are what society has decided is ethical and unethical. Laws in a Democracy are usually made from what is Ethical and unethical. 

I explain what the technique does how it is applied and the counters to the techniques so they know both sides of it. I also explain that they have to choose what they are going to do. I am not there with them. I cannot fight their fight. I cannot make them run away to be safe. I cannot help them execute the right technique at the right time it is up to them. 



			
				OnlyAnEgg said:
			
		

> As a student, what responsibilities do you accept in learning a Martial Art?



If you decide to teach the art you have learned then you have accepted the responsibility to present that art as you learned it. One should present what they know to be true, and the rest they should have done some research to make sure it is at least reasonable. 

If you add something to your teachings, from your own experience or insight or from that of another art one needs to tell their students where that came from. Not as a form of braging but as a form of verbal and or written history. This avoids conflicts later when people are discussing differences.

For example, when I teach, and a Student asks a questions and I can answer it, I try to explain it back to what they know as a basic some place else. This helps them in understanding. So when I study an art, I accept teh responsibilities of presenting said art with honesty and integrity. 





			
				OnlyAnEgg said:
			
		

> What do you feel you must do in order to possess these skills properly?



Some may never possess the traits, some may learn them out of respect. Others may have them from day one. 




			
				OnlyAnEgg said:
			
		

> Songs...they always bring it out in me.
> 
> I look forward to your responses.



I like lyrics, I almost always have one running around in the back of my head.


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## Jenna (Jun 18, 2006)

OnlyAnEgg said:
			
		

> Funny me, I was listening to a song today. The song was Postcards From Cambodia, the lyrics of which I have posted elsewhere in the fora. The song typically starts me thinking about responsibility. The song speaks mostly of death, weapons and the fallout of both.
> 
> Martial Arts is a form of weapon, is it not? A defensive weapon, true; but, a weapon used in defence still harms, maims and can kill.
> 
> ...


Egg my thoughtful friend  yes you are absolutely correct I think... martial arts are indeed weapons.. though interesting you should concatenate the word defensive to the word weapon.. that is unusual to me. I think when a weapon is used even though it may well be in your defence or in defence of another it cannot be used defensively only offensively..??? anyway.. apologies I am leading myself away down into the wrong sidings.. 

In terms of moral ethical tasks what is morally appropriate to one may be morally reprehensible to another and I do not think I am conceited enough to believe that what is morally correct for me would necessarily sit well with anyone else.. And but I certainly appreciate what you mean and none of us would wish our teachings to be utilised in a way other than which they were taught

But this is a good question now I think on it because when we teach someone to strike kick throw tackle slash or shoot we teach them how to harm and I think it is well and good for us to say that we impart our wonderful moral ethic to our students but maybe if we were THAT concerned with doing the morally "correct" thing we would have chosen other paths rather than the ones which enable us to harm and allow us to pass on this knowledge to others

Me? well I am just little miss laissez faire.. and this plainly because I inhabit such low lying moral ground myself .. I sort of traipse the moral foothills rather than ever ascending to the moral high plains I think..  and I would feel I could provide no real piety which it would appear from what I am reading that others are inclined to feel able to do through their teachings ..  if I give someone a set of skills am I lacking in my role as instructor NOT to be throwing in a lesson in ethical use of this skill? am I second rate in my role for NOT believeing I can give an adult student a sense of morality that they would not already have?? well all I know is I am NOT that person.. I am not their priest pastor or rabbi nor am I a social worker or psychologist and thus I am not in a position to be giving moral direction to one who otherwise is either lacking or completely vacant of their own .. I am just a martial arts person and I do not feel I should be coerced into performing these roles.. so there... ooooh get HER! ha!  ahh but I teach no longer so perhaps that is to the better of everyone

But do not fear.. as a student I take my own medicine and likewise I would feel somewhat patronised were anyone to rationalise their teachings for use only in circumstances in which they see as appropriate..  I would still listen and be respectfully quiet though.. I mean I have never yet been asked by a store why I was buying serrated edged folding knives (for sharpening my blunted Caran D'Ache.. naturally) but I never stopped to wonder to myself was the store owner devoid of all moral obligation.. maybe others would disagree.. fair enough I is just talking here.

Anyway either I feel strongly bout this or maybe I just said all that because I feel like playing the devils advocate today.. *shrugs*

It is though a VERY interesting question undoubtedly and what is your own reply Egg my friend I wonder?

And see how all these things work in our favour and if you had not been listening to Postcards From.. but rather Holiday In.. then you would have posted something about the innate human desire to hit people, ha! So it is all to the good I think...

Well done .. more please!

Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna


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## Paul B (Jun 18, 2006)

Jenna said:
			
		

> ...snip...In terms of moral ethical tasks what is morally appropriate to one may be morally reprehensible to another and I do not think I am conceited enough to believe that what is morally correct for me would necessarily sit well with anyone else..


 
Hi Jenna..good post and I agree. 

I can only say "This is what will happen if you do this." and if the student decides to take that lesson to heart then Yay for me.

I am there to teach and study Hapkido..not Philosophy 101 or Golden Rule 202...they can gravitate towards and apply the teaching of their choice to "their" Hapkido..but it's nothing I'm going to force on anyone.


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## tshadowchaser (Jun 18, 2006)

Part of the code we teach says

" 
*We shall always practice humility.* 
*We shall always practice gentleness in our relationships with others. *
*We shall always practice patience, never to use our knowledge to abuse others except in defense of ourselves, our loved ones, and the weak"*

*I think these are a good way to teach resposibility or at least a good start at it*​


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## Paul B (Jun 18, 2006)

Yep..we have one that's very similar. Does that mean that everyone who studies Hapkido with us is going to follow it? Not if we're being realistic here. 

What we can choose to do is to be a tad more selective about who we teach. If one has a commercial venture though,this avenue probably isn't going to pan out. Whateryagonnado?:idunno: 

I really try to lead by example and I always try to make it a point to stay positive when dealing with/about others. I hope that some of that attitude will rub off on them, but I can't *make* them be a better person. I can only help them out where I can,because gawd knows I'm still trying to better myself as well. I also tend to find that the "problem" characters have a way of weeding themselves out after a month or so..so it's all good in the end.


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## OnlyAnEgg (Jun 19, 2006)

Jenna said:
			
		

> It is though a VERY interesting question undoubtedly and what is your own reply Egg my friend I wonder?
> 
> And see how all these things work in our favour and if you had not been listening to Postcards From.. but rather Holiday In.. then you would have posted something about the innate human desire to hit people, ha! So it is all to the good I think...


 
My answer is quite simple, by comparison.

In the small capacity I have as an instructor, I limit my responsibilities to doing exactly what I am told to do.  

As a student, I feel my responsibility is to support and attend Sensei.  Encourage an attitude of respect within the dojo and to apply myself to the best of my abilities.

As a martial artist at my level of skill.  My responsibility is to apply the lessons I've learned to my daily life, pass the lessons that I have learned to my children and treat the skills I have with the utmost respect, limiting it's use to the most unavoidable of situations.

And, if I'd been listening to Holiday In Cambodia, I may have posted a question about the American sense of arrogance, instead of an individual's sense of responsibility.

'Right Guard will not help you here...'


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## White Fox (Jun 19, 2006)

OnlyAnEgg said:
			
		

> Funny me, I was listening to a song today. The song was Postcards From Cambodia, the lyrics of which I have posted elsewhere in the fora. The song typically starts me thinking about responsibility. The song speaks mostly of death, weapons and the fallout of both.
> 
> Martial Arts is a form of weapon, is it not? A defensive weapon, true; but, a weapon used in defence still harms, maims and can kill.
> 
> ...


 
MA's are a hudge responsibility!!!!! Too many people do them just to be tuff guys this just seems wrong to me.

I feel MA"S are about protection of yourself and others, disipline,  strong true hearted character, and an attitude of service to all living beings, 

I'm not interested in just going around fighting guys to feel like I'm a big man, No matter how good you are there is always someone bigger and better than you.


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## matt.m (Jun 19, 2006)

You know when I taught basic judo and youth wrestling as well I would always tell the students that it was up to them.  They could either be responsible or not.

However, I am with Paul.  It isn't up to you how like he and I, use our hapkido.  It is the responsibility of the person learning to take responsibility for themselves.  

As a Marine Corporal in Haiti, in 1994 I would tell my troops, "You know the rules of engagement, it is up to you to follow them."  The same applies with martial arts.


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