# Parent issues around testing time



## IcemanSK

It seems that even tho I tell folks 6 weeks to 2 months in advance when our next belt test is, I always get a parent ask if their child can test on a different day cuz something else has come up. It's never a death in the family. It's a football game, another sport the child is in, or another event. I'm inclined to just make the test date the only one for that cycle. What do you do when it comes up?

Also, what day of the week do you normally do testing? I do them on Saturdays. It's a special day (we don't normally have class on Saturdays) & it takes longer than a normal class time. What days do you do them & why?


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## terryl965

I never change my dates, if they want to test then here is the date. Also I test on the weekend after all my classes are done. I necer want to stop a class for some test. Best of luck Iceman and hold your guns, once you change for one it is a never ending cycle.


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## Rich Parsons

terryl965 said:


> I never change my dates, if they want to test then here is the date. Also I test on the weekend after all my classes are done. I necer want to stop a class for some test. Best of luck Iceman and hold your guns, once you change for one it is a never ending cycle.



I agree Terry. I mean you get people together to do it as a group. Ask the parents if they could reschedule the other "game" or event they are involved in. 

Of course, if your flexibility is your marketing tool to get students then you may have to be understanding.


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## bluekey88

At my school, we schedule testing monthly on the second Saturday of the month.  Parents can request private tests if the testing dtae is a problem.  IN that case if the child is at a class where there are enough instructors, the test will be done then.

I've requested private tests twice and in both cases ended up waiting a month for the next test due to intructor availability.

Peace,
Erik


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## terryl965

Rich Parsons said:


> I agree Terry. I mean you get people together to do it as a group. Ask the parents if they could reschedule the other "game" or event they are involved in.
> 
> Of course, if your flexibility is your marketing tool to get students then you may have to be understanding.


 
This is true if flexibility is one of your catches then you must be to a certain exrenct.


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## MA-Caver

Maybe this might be more work than it's worth but you might try to ask the parent to give you as far ahead a schedule of the child's "other" activities so to work around it. 

Or ask the parent to ask the child to learn how to prioritize their activities so to know that it's O.K. to miss a game of football or baseball or soccer or whatever! in favor of taking their next belt test. At least it will help the kid later in years when they're trying to decide on the "hundreds" of job offers they're applying for  
But for black belt tests I would definitely be adamant and stick to whatever date you had in mind and make the parents prioritize their child's accomplishments... along with the child of course. It might run them ragged but their fault for saying yes do this, this, this and that. 
I think it's okay for a child to want to do a lot of different things (hey it pulls them away from those damned video-game consoles) but they do need to learn how to put first things first. Attend to that which is most important to them.


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## IcemanSK

I appreciate all your input. And if you have more thoughts, I'd appreciate them as well.

Chosing the dates has a lot to do with availability of the church that generously gives me the space for free. I have to work with the events there. For example, I have a test sheduled the 1st Saturday in December because it will a very busy month at the church. Saturdays will be hard to come by. Next month, I'll sit down with the church secretary & plan out the next year's worth of events for my program (tests, & which days we're in what rooms) to the best of our ability. Letting my students know as soon as I know I think is key. They can choose to test or not (once I give my okay).


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## stickarts

we also offer private testing although it costs more.


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## girlbug2

I agree that once you set a test date you should stick to it. 

Word to the wise, however -- most kids' sporting events tend to take place on Saturdays.


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## Kwanjang

Good morning Iceman, We are consistent in that our tests are always on the 3rd Friday night of the month at my Cape Girardeau, School, and the third Sat, at my Sikeston School. Depending on the belt level white-orange and the set of circumstances I might schedule a private test, I raise the process fee for a Pvt, Test. I might add, we have a promotion schedule board hanging in the room that projects up to four months in advance so the student and the parent can set a goal and clear their schedule for that day (considering they have the attendance, which at my studio the attendance = time in grade) After those begining levels I am stern on green and above, because of the testing board being displayed-the student should put aside other activities. If they cant make it I just tell them NEXT month. It is a real pain in the butt to have to have a special test for a student who knew 3-4 months in advance they were suppose to test--"ahem... but I gotta football game on test day Sir" Then they still expect to test at their leisure. I, like most other Instructors have paper work to do and testing out of the cycle puts extra stain on me.


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## jks9199

If you've got a lot of kids as students -- or parents of kids! -- then you need to realize that Saturday mornings are often tied up with seasonal sports.  Our kids class is very small at the moment, and we generally shift the Saturday morning kids class around to accomodate soccer.  We get more students, and we may not be able to do that.

At the same time -- your activity deserves the same respect as the other sports.  The parents aren't going over to the soccer or football league, and saying "little Timmy has a martial arts test, can we reschedule the game?"   They'd be laughed at.  

Maybe you can add a few weeknight tests, in between the Saturday morning tests?  Require them to commit to one or the other; no last minute changes without a good explanation, and it's not a test at one or the other or both set up.  I'd look for like one week night test for every two Saturday tests, or only do them during the spring or fall, or whatever time works out to be most problematic for the most students.

Or.. be a hardass.  You announce the tests in advance, they can plan around them.


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## Kacey

Our tests occur during class.  Since our students are tested by someone outside the class, rescheduling is difficult - although we have enough affiliated classes that we usually can send a student to another class that is holding a testing if the reason for missing testing is valid (illness of self or family member, work problems, school, etc.) - but I've had students come in and tell me _after testing_ that they were at a concert, or a ball game, or something like that, and want to reschedule, and my answer is generally no to adults; with kids, it depends on the age, as if the parents went somewhere the child often has no way to get to class.  I did have one student miss testing because his parents were out of town, and his older brother, who was supposed to bring him to class, forgot and went on a date instead, leaving his 13 year-old brother stranded at home; I scheduled a separate test for him, as it wasn't his fault.  I'm pretty flexible with things that happen because life happens - but people who double-book themselves with a month's notice, during a time they are usually in class, have only themselves to blame if they don't test, and I don't make separate arrangements for them.


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## Lynne

We have testing on Saturday mornings, but students may test the Thursday morning or Thursday night before the scheduled Saturday test.

Also, spotlights (monthly quizzes of current material) are scheduled for Thursday nights but students may spotlight Thursday morning or on Saturday.  If spotlighting on Saturday, that means they must test on all previous material because everyone is actually testing for their next gup.  Also, if a students tests on Thursday night that can mean everyone who is spotlighting may have to go through all of their previous material instead of only current material. 

So, we have three available slots to test (also we have another school in Ithaca, NY where we can test on an alternate night if we can't make the testing at our own school).


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## tshadowchaser

I never let students know ahead of time when they are testing.  I can tell if they are ready and if they should know the material.  I start all classes the same and all of a sudden someone is testing.  If they know the material they should be able to pass the test.
I used to hold tests on a set date but got tired of all the excuses for students not being there or showing up thinking they could test when they had missed half the classes between tests. 
Set a date and stick to it.  However you may want to test on a weekend one month and a week day the next. This gives some flexibility to those that have weekend activities.
Another thought on this is if you have posted a testing date far enough ahead and they find something else to do that is their problem.


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## IcemanSK

tshadowchaser said:


> I never let students know ahead of time when they are testing. I can tell if they are ready and if they should know the material. I start all classes the same and all of a sudden someone is testing. If they know the material they should be able to pass the test.
> I used to hold tests on a set date but got tired of all the excuses for students not being there or showing up thinking they could test when they had missed half the classes between tests.
> Set a date and stick to it. However you may want to test on a weekend one month and a week day the next. This gives some flexibility to those that have weekend activities.
> Another thought on this is if you have posted a testing date far enough ahead and they find something else to do that is their problem.


 

I both announce the test date 2-3 months in advance & pre-test folks & tell them whether or not they are ready to test. It should eliminate some of the issues you mentioned, but it doesn't. Boys have known before they start practicing for football that there is a test during the season & on which date. I'm inclined to make test dates stick, because there's a lot that goes into it. Sometimes, I get the master from a sister school to drive 210 miles to sit in. 

When I test only every 3 months, it needs to be an important event.


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## IcemanSK

The situation with the main parent asking for a change resolved itself last night. I took the child & dad aside after class & explained that the test couldn't be moved to accomodate him. It was going to be one of those many times in life that he would need to choose what he wanted to do. I told the boy that I would understand no matter which thing he chose to do.

Dad seemed much more understanding than mom was on the phone earlier that day. He seemed to get that it was a "teachable moment" for his son, rather than an opportunity to try to move heaven & earth for the boy.


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## Kwanjang

IcemanSK said:


> The situation with the main parent asking for a change resolved itself last night. I took the child & dad aside after class & explained that the test couldn't be moved to accomodate him. It was going to be one of those many times in life that he would need to choose what he wanted to do. I told the boy that I would understand no matter which thing he chose to do.
> 
> Dad seemed much more understanding than mom was on the phone earlier that day. He seemed to get that it was a "teachable moment" for his son, rather than an opportunity to try to move heaven & earth for the boy.


 
I am glad that worked out for you Iceman!


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## sadantkd

MA-Caver said:


> Maybe this might be more work than it's worth but you might try to ask the parent to give you as far ahead a schedule of the child's "other" activities so to work around it.
> 
> Or ask the parent to ask the child to learn how to prioritize their activities so to know that it's O.K. to miss a game of football or baseball or soccer or whatever! in favor of taking their next belt test. At least it will help the kid later in years when they're trying to decide on the "hundreds" of job offers they're applying for
> quote]
> 
> 
> I have to strongly disagree with you on this point.  I think in the team sports you're discussing, the child has made a committment to the rest of his or her team, and should put that first.  If it's a practice, that's a different story, but I don't think they should miss a game.  Any school I've been involved in has always offered a make-up test for students who couldn't attend the regular session.
> 
> The only exception I would make, is for black belt testing.  They student has known the date of his black belt eligibility for 6 months in my school, so if he can't make it that day, he can wait two months until the next testing.


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## Ken Morgan

In our organization, grading is the first weekend in December, period. If you miss it, you have to wait another year.

Oh crapthats only three and a half months away!!


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## ATC

Regurlar testing for color belts don't change. Since there will be another test relitively soon they can test during the next test time. It won't kill them to wait a month or two.

Also we test on Wednesday's and Thursdays, kids on Wednesday and adults on Thursdays. This way Saturday events do not get in the way. Now we do close regular classes these days but most people welcome the break every 2 months, including the instructors.


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## Tez3

ATC damn you!!!! that bloody insect i've been trying to swat!!

Nice one LOL!


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## bekkilyn

Tez3 said:


> ATC damn you!!!! that bloody insect i've been trying to swat!!
> 
> Nice one LOL!



Hah! It took me a while to realize it wasn't something crawling around on my monitor. Thought for a moment my plants had come down with fungus gnats again!


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## ATC

Tez3 said:


> ATC damn you!!!! that bloody insect i've been trying to swat!!
> 
> Nice one LOL!


Ha ha ha...Sorry. Just something I thought looked cool. My 2 year old liked it too.


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## shoto_tiger_girl

At my school we've had a few issues with that. My sensei tests quarterly and gives plenty of notice. But she also has a rule where you have to make 80% of the classes or you don't test. We have have a few up for black belt. 2 of them don't show up half the time because they have school sports all the time. The parents of both kids keep asking sensei when they are testing for black belt. She's also held them back because of lack of respect as well.  she tells the parents that they aren't making enough classes to test. Then the parents get upset. It's great that kids want to do other things but the child does need to learn to prioritize what's important. The parents need to learn learn to be respectful to sensei's decision. She is flexible if you are on vacation she will test you when you get back. Once you get to 1st brown you have to wait at least a year to test for black.


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## shoto_tiger_girl

tshadowchaser said:


> I never let students know ahead of time when they are testing.  I can tell if they are ready and if they should know the material.  I start all classes the same and all of a sudden someone is testing.  If they know the material they should be able to pass the test.
> I used to hold tests on a set date but got tired of all the excuses for students not being there or showing up thinking they could test when they had missed half the classes between tests.
> Set a date and stick to it.  However you may want to test on a weekend one month and a week day the next. This gives some flexibility to those that have weekend activities.
> Another thought on this is if you have posted a testing date far enough ahead and they find something else to do that is their problem.


one problem we had was one of the girls showed up 45 min late for testing. She said that her mom forgot. We had already gone through alot of the required material. Sensei wasn't going to let her test then she looked like she was going to cry. So sensei told her to do her kata and she sparred. That's all she did and sensei still passed her. There were a lot of unhappy people that night. We were all there on time we did the whole test. And she only did 1/4 of it.i mean I have no right to question sensei. But that's the reason for her posting it months in advance. One of my other instructor friends at another school says he doesn't let them test if they show up 2 min late notice exceptions. Once you make exceptions for 1 kid then you have to for everyone. It doesn't teach them responsibility or accountability. If you are late all the time you don't get promoted at a job. So same deal with testing.


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## Andrew Green

What is the "test"? Is it truly a test? Or does your instructor know before hand who is ready and who is not and the test is more of a formality at that point?

You have a child, who shows up for what should be a positive experience in the martial arts, and due to no fault of there own is late. It can be turned into a negative one by not letting her test, having her go home in tears, mad at her instructor and/or her mom, or keep it a positive one. If the test is a formality, what does it matter? If not give it to her conditionally upon competing the missing pieces afterwards. 

But don't turn a positive experience into a negative one if it can be avoided, especially when it's not the child's fault. 

Our job is to keep kids interested and training, and sometimes that means being accommodating of their existing commitments and obligations.


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## shoto_tiger_girl

Andrew Green said:


> What is the "test"? Is it truly a test? Or does your instructor know before hand who is ready and who is not and the test is more of a formality at that point?
> 
> You have a child, who shows up for what should be a positive experience in the martial arts, and due to no fault of there own is late. It can be turned into a negative one by not letting her test, having her go home in tears, mad at her instructor and/or her mom, or keep it a positive one. If the test is a formality, what does it matter? If not give it to her conditionally upon competing the missing pieces afterwards.
> 
> But don't turn a positive experience into a negative one if it can be avoided, especially when it's not the child's fault.
> 
> Our job is to keep kids interested and training, and sometimes that means being accommodating of their existing commitments and obligations.


hi you are right. i didn't think about it that way. I apologize for that. I came from a more disapline and structured school before I took shotokan. And if you were late you didn't test. The school I'm in now is a little looser. So I'm not used to it. Same with my friends school he also has that rules if you are late you don't test so I thought it was the norm. We normally test in a group. That was why alot of us felt the way we did. We spent all that time busting our butts and someone comes in late. Does 2 things and passes. but I do get what you are saying. I hope I didn't come off as callous or cold. I'm not that way. I apologize if I did


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## Tez3

It's going to depend on circumstances, if someone comes to training regularly, works hard and is obviously ready for grading but is unavoidably late for that grading there's no reason for them not to grade. If though someone doesn't come in that often, doesn't work hard and is usually slack about timekeeping then no they don't grade, not just because they are late but because they aren't ready. Usually the couple of weeks before grading we have people bringing their children more often as if it's going to make a difference they turn up for a couple of weeks before. I'm afraid it doesn't. The actual grading is more an allowable 'showing off' of their techniques, their skills and abilities for the next grade, they aren't there if they can't do it. The grading is more for conquering nerves and managing the stress of a 'public' occasion, it helps confidence too. It's good for them to be told well done publically too. Adult grading would be a different matter but we don't grade them.


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## Buka

Late for class? You don't train. Late for test? You don't test. Even if it isn't your fault. No exceptions.

When those ground rules are laid down and ahered to, nobody is ever late again. (you would be surprised how easy that works) And just maybe....a kid learns that punctuality is important in life.


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## Tez3

Buka said:


> Late for class? You don't train. Late for test? You don't test. Even if it isn't your fault. No exceptions.
> 
> When those ground rules are laid down and ahered to, nobody is ever late again. (you would be surprised how easy that works) And just maybe....a kid learns that punctuality is important in life.



We allow exceptions because of the nature of our club. I can think of at least half a dozen good reasons for being late or not being to come at all. The adults can be late for class because they've come off guard for instance, our students aren't free to not 'work late', if the Sgt.Maj. says they work late they work late and come to class when they can. This can mean that dad has the car and mum can't bring the child to class until he's home. We've had some students come in and then the camp closed down on security grounds so the rest can't get in until later, sometimes cars are searched and this takes time. Recently we've had students rushed off on half an hours notice to deploy to the other end of the country because of floods. Loads of reasons why people are late,  If we aren't flexible we can't run the club. I realis we may be the exception but I would always allow exceptions for good reasons.


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## Andrew Green

Buka said:


> Late for class? You don't train. Late for test? You don't test. Even if it isn't your fault. No exceptions.
> 
> When those ground rules are laid down and ahered to, nobody is ever late again. (you would be surprised how easy that works) And just maybe....a kid learns that punctuality is important in life.



I understand this sort of logic in places like the military.  I understand that we should try and teach our students to accept responsibility in that sense.  But at the same time, things happen.  Good customer service should exist in our industry as well, which means we sometimes have to accommodate other things in their life, just as they sometimes have to make other things accommodate us.  If a kid also plays hockey and has a important game on testing... they are probably playing the game.  If they miss out on too much they will conclude they have to choose one or the other, and that certainly does them no good.

We compete against a lot of things for peoples time.  I imagine we all also believe martial arts to be a very good use of a persons time, and something that they will get a lot of benefit out of doing if they stick with it for the long run.  So for that reason I think the more obstacles we can remove that might get in the way of them continuing the better.  

I mean I'd rather them get the benefits of a couple more years training then learn that martial arts clubs are very un-accommodating to their already busy life.

To some extent the world has changed.  We value time more then ever now it seems. A lot of people have stopped talking on the phone, preferring text as they can answer things at their convenience.  We watch tv and movies on our time, when its convenient to us either without commercials or by fast forwarding them.  

People might pay for classes, but they are also giving their time, which is just as valuable if not more so.  Sometimes we will be #1 for their time, other times #2.  But if they are putting in the time, not effecting others negatively and meeting the requirements why shouldn't we be accommodating of other things in their life once and a while?


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## Buka

I understand the great points put forth by Tez and Andrew. I've dealt with them on both sides - as student and teacher. And there are always exceptions to any rule set.

Just don't be late for my class. Like ever.


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