# Five years Later, The State of Modern Arnis...



## Guro Harold (Mar 12, 2006)

This August will make five years since the passing of GM Remy A. Presas.

What is the current state of Modern Arnis?

What is the current state of the major Modern Arnis organizations?

What is the current state of the leadership of Modern Arnis?


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## HKphooey (Mar 13, 2006)

First off I will state that I am not affiliated with any of the organizations (accept for CTMAJ). I presently train under Sensei Frank Shekosky. Second, I am a newbie to formalized Modern Arnis training. My background is Kenpo and mixed martial arts. Two years ago I started to do some research to find out home many schools out there taught some form of "stick art". I found many were teaching some type of "stick art". I thought it would be nice idea to get all those schools together on one website. But that is another story and I am not looking to promote that website now.

Some of the larger Modern Arnis Org's I came across:
International Modern Arnis Federation (IMAF)
International Modern Arnis Federation, Inc (IMAF,Inc)
World Modern Arnis Alliance (WMAA)
Modern Arnis Remy Presas International (MARPIO)
Interantional Modern Arnis Federation Philippines (IMAFP)
Natural Spirit Int'l (NSI)

All seem to have a good following, seminar circuit and school membership. 

Please add any you have come across.

I also came across many state or localized organizations that continue the teaching of GM Presas.

Like any passing of of an Grandmaster there will be some splintering (as I experienced in Kenpo) and new organizations will form.  So far I have met  (or emailed) some great people from all the organizations (Modern Arnis and other stick arts).


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## MJS (Mar 13, 2006)

Palusut said:
			
		

> What is the current state of Modern Arnis?


 
As it was already said, anytime the head of a system passes on, people will go their seperate ways, do their own thing, etc.  Personally, I try not to get involved in the politics.  I'm much more interested in training and learning about the art, than all of the in-fighting.



> What is the current state of the major Modern Arnis organizations?
> 
> What is the current state of the leadership of Modern Arnis?


 
IMHO, there are some great organizations and people out there, who seem to focus on spreading the art that the Prof. left us.  There are also some organizations and people out there who seem to be more interested in themselves, always wanting the 'light' to shine on them.  

Mike


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## Dan Anderson (Mar 13, 2006)

Palusut said:
			
		

> This August will make five years since the passing of GM Remy A. Presas.
> 
> What is the current state of Modern Arnis?


Flourishing and prospering. The splintering of the art hasn't really done anything to damage the art. It has survived nicely.



> What is the current state of the major Modern Arnis organizations?


Hard to say in a forum. It would be up to the leaders of each org to say whether they have expanded or contracted.



> What is the current state of the leadership of Modern Arnis?


There is no one leader nor one person who has more influence than any other in MA. There are the leaders of each org and there are a number of independents.

All in all, we're not doing too badly five years since the passing of our teacher.

Yours,
Dan Anderson


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## HKphooey (Mar 14, 2006)

Well said MR. Anderson! 

I think we have something to learn from all styles, organizations and instructors.  Most of us have that one common thread...we want to learn!

And I stand corrected...  I should have used a more positive word, something like "fractioning" or "individuals deciding to go their own way".  Ultimately, insn't that the goal of any great teacher? The student begins to formulate his/her own ideas and thoughts.


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## stickarts (Mar 14, 2006)

There are many more modern arnis practicioners in CT then when I first started learning Modern Arnis and there are also definately more MA instructors that are available than there were many years ago.
The instructors available, in general, also have greater knowledge then was available long ago.
The Prof. wanted the art to continue on and it certainly has.
There are many talented and hard working people in larger organizations as well as independent schools that are both contributing to the arts continued growth. 
I personally still miss the Prof. but will always feel like part of him is still with us as long as we keep training and remember the good times and the lessons learned. I can still see him walking through my door and telling me to go grab some sticks! :0) He always had something cool to show and made everyone feel special just to be there.


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## Dan Anderson (Mar 14, 2006)

HKphooey said:
			
		

> Well said MR. Anderson!
> 
> I think we have something to learn from all styles, organizations and instructors. Most of us have that one common thread...we want to learn!
> 
> And I stand corrected...  I should have used a more positive word, something like "fractioning" or "individuals deciding to go their own way". Ultimately, insn't that the goal of any great teacher? The student begins to formulate his/her own ideas and thoughts.


Thanks.  I don't know if there is any more positive way to state it.  Prof. Presas died and the bombs went off.  The dust has now settled and it really doesn't matter if the curriculums are identical or not, the art is alive and spreading thanks to the efforts of the various organizations and a number of independents (including prolific authors -   howzat for a shameless plug?).

Yours,
Dan Anderson


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## Brian R. VanCise (Mar 14, 2006)

Shameless plug.  You definately are a prolific author though.
By the way, I should have your pictures and video out pretty
soon from the last seminar. Take care.

On topic, the art seems to be doing well and spreading which is
important for it's continued success. Personally I am very interested
in seeing more of the Filipino Modern Arnis master's or the early
Modern Arnis Master's from the Philippines. Hopefully people will
continue to bring more and more of them over here to the United
States for seminar's.

Brian R. VanCise
www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com


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## bobquinn (Mar 14, 2006)

All,
You are doing just what the boss wanted! Keep on, keeping on! The Professor still hears us. He just came to visit me in Arnis class tonight, just when you thought you knew it all the beginners teach us a thing or two. Hope to see you on the mat.

Bob Quinn


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## Seigi (Mar 15, 2006)

I agree, there is definitely more Arnis & FMA available in MI. than when i started over 13 years ago. I'm excited to see what the future holds & am glad to be a part of it.

Peace & Namaste


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## Dalum (Mar 16, 2006)

Brian R. VanCise said:
			
		

> Shameless plug.  You definately are a prolific author though.
> By the way, I should have your pictures and video out pretty
> soon from the last seminar. Take care.
> 
> ...


 
You bring up a good side point...  There has been the standard evolution in may other styles where the first word is the country of origin.  Let's take, for instance, American Karate.  Karate definitely didn't originate here at all.  What's going to happen when Filipino Modern Arnis becomes American Modern Arnis?  With everything that's been going on and the 2 "factions" of tradition vs evolution come around from time to time (especially in discussion) a 3rd entity may come into play.

(Not to hijack the thread either, I thought it would be pertinent in this discussion.)


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## Dan Anderson (Mar 17, 2006)

Dalum said:
			
		

> You bring up a good side point... There has been the standard evolution in may other styles where the first word is the country of origin. Let's take, for instance, American Karate. Karate definitely didn't originate here at all. What's going to happen when Filipino Modern Arnis becomes American Modern Arnis? With everything that's been going on and the 2 "factions" of tradition vs evolution come around from time to time (especially in discussion) a 3rd entity may come into play.
> 
> (Not to hijack the thread either, I thought it would be pertinent in this discussion.)


Hi Fred,
In my opinion it has already happened.  Even Prof. Presas wasn't "pure" _Filipino_ Modern Arnis.  He had influences from Small Circle JuJutsu and Ryukyu Kenpo in the latter years.  As he had no formal curriculum laid out in the USA, much of the Modern Arnis here in the US _is_ "American Modern Arnis."  I it the continuing evolution of the art.

Yours,
Dan Anderson


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## stickarts (Mar 17, 2006)

I agree. the roots may come from the Phillipinnes but it has evolved continuously over the decades and has elements from many styles. One reason why it is "modern" arnis.


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## Rich Parsons (Mar 17, 2006)

I think Modern Arnis has had some growth by forcing the next generation of all of the organizations and some independants to step up. 

I also think there has been some bad blood and comments made, that may effect the long term working together of certain people or groups.

On the whole I think it is good, with the assumption that we cannot have GM R Presas back to keep teaching us. 

:asian:


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## kruzada (Mar 19, 2006)

Dan Anderson said:
			
		

> Hi Fred,
> In my opinion it has already happened.  Even Prof. Presas wasn't "pure" _Filipino_ Modern Arnis. He had influences from Small Circle JuJutsu and Ryukyu Kenpo in the latter years.  As he had no formal curriculum laid out in the USA, much of the Modern Arnis here in the US _is_ "American Modern Arnis."



I disagree. The only way that an "American Modern Arnis" would exist is when a native born American takes the art that GM Remy taught and changed the curriculum significantly enough to warrant founding a new art all together.

Although GM Remy added many new innovations to his Modern Arnis while he lived here in the U.S., that does not change the fact that (1) he was a native born Filipino, (2) he was very proud of his Filipino heritage and would never turn his back on his native country by saying that he had no ties or loyalty to the Philippines after being granted U.S. citizenry. (3) He returned numerous times to the Philippines to re-inforce his relationship with his students there, establishing IMAFP himself and appointing a board of directors to represent him in the Philippines. 

Simply put GM Remy lived and worked here in the U.S., he was a proud Filipino-American, who was very proud of his cultural heritage. The fact that he added techniques from other arts while he lived in the U.S. does not make his art "American". That would imply that only American practitioners of the FMA would add mix other arts with their Arnis. This is simply not true. 

Many Grandmasters in the Philippines have done this, not just GM Remy. GM Lema (Lightning Scientific Arnis) traveled to Japan and studied Judo, he even lived and taught this combination of Arnis with Judo techiniques while he lived in Okinawa. This does not make his art Japanese Okinawan Scientific Arnis. GM Villanueva (Lao Lan) studied Karate and Judo and GM Mena (Doblete Rapelon) studied Karate Judo and Silat. Mixing arts has long been a tradition among some Filipino martial artists. This methodology is not unique to Americans. 

Modern Arnis is a truly international martial art that trancends the boundaries of nationality and race. I believe that no one has the right to rebrand the art that GM Remy founded. It is not Filipino Modern Arnis, American Modern Arnis or European Modern Arnis. It is simply "Modern Arnis". We have a multitude of organizations that may rename their selves according to the country that they are based in and primarily promote the art in, but it is wrong to assume that GM Remy would be OK with his students renaming the art that he entrusted them with.

Respectfully, 

Rich Acosta
Kuntaw Kali Kruzada


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## kruzada (Mar 19, 2006)

kruzada said:
			
		

> GM Lema (Lightning Scientific Arnis) traveled to Japan and studied Judo, he even lived and taught this combination of Arnis with Judo techiniques while he lived in Okinawa.



My mistake. GM Lema taught in Guam, not Okinawa.


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## Dan Anderson (Mar 20, 2006)

kruzada said:
			
		

> I disagree. The only way that an "American Modern Arnis" would exist is when a native born American takes the art that GM Remy taught and changed the curriculum significantly enough to warrant founding a new art all together.
> 
> Although GM Remy added many new innovations to his Modern Arnis while he lived here in the U.S., that does not change the fact that (1) he was a native born Filipino, (2) he was very proud of his Filipino heritage and would never turn his back on his native country by saying that he had no ties or loyalty to the Philippines after being granted U.S. citizenry. (3) He returned numerous times to the Philippines to re-inforce his relationship with his students there, establishing IMAFP himself and appointing a board of directors to represent him in the Philippines.
> 
> ...


Hi Rich,

Nicely stated disagreements.  I beg to differ with you in that one wouldn't have to change the art significantly in the technical end to make it an "American" art.  Probably it would be more correct to state "American Modern Arnis" would be more of a Fil-Am art.  This is how I describe MA-80.  For an American to take the ball and run with it would change the direction of it somewhat and would warrant the name change or shift in viewpoint if it so indicated to him.  My opinion.

Yours,
Dan


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## kruzada (Mar 21, 2006)

Dan Anderson said:
			
		

> Hi Rich,
> 
> Nicely stated disagreements.  I beg to differ with you in that one wouldn't have to change the art significantly in the technical end to make it an "American" art.  Probably it would be more correct to state "American Modern Arnis" would be more of a Fil-Am art.  This is how I describe MA-80.  For an American to take the ball and run with it would change the direction of it somewhat and would warrant the name change or shift in viewpoint if it so indicated to him.  My opinion.
> 
> ...



Thanks for your reply.

IMO anyone founding their own martial art system, is ofcourse free to name it whatever they like. As long as they assume responsibility as head of this new system, and promote it as their expression of the art(s) they were taught and claim sole ownership of the system, not co-ownership with their teacher.

If they claim co-ownership of a system with their teacher(s), then said teacher(s) should be consulted when changing the name of the system in question. If said teacher(s) should pass away, the surviving co-founder would then become the sole owner of this new system and can rename said system, which would then be a seperate entity apart from the original art(s) that they studied, because he/she would ofcourse be inable to obtain/prove his teacher(s) consent in the renaming of the said system.

But usually the founding of a new system is predicated on either a change in the focus and/or technical, philosophical approach to the art(s) that the new system's founder originally studied.

For instance Brazilian Jujitsu, which is derived from Kodokan Judo, has chosen to focus on matwork and has de-emphasized all other aspects of the Judo that their founder had learned. 

Aikido founder Morihei Ueshiba, focused more on spiritual development and modified the training methodology of the Daito Ryu Aikijutsu that he had studied to reflect this.

Just my two cents.

-Rich


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## Dan Anderson (Mar 21, 2006)

Hi Rich,

Far more than two cents and worth double that.  Again, nicely stated.  As I agree with what you said I'll just put forth what and how I did my own thing to put my end of the discussion into perspective.  In 1998 I petitioned Prof. Presas to begin my own branch of Modern Arnis, specifically stated to be _subservient to his _and that any incorrections were mine and that they were subject to change by him correcting them.  Basically it was an in-house branch.  No name difference or anything like that.  He passes away in 2001 and I come out public with the branch.  I didin't even have a name change until after talking about it with Tim Hartman (who disagreed, by the way).  Anyway, MA-80 is what I would call a Fil-Am art.  I do not claim co-ownership with _Remy Presas Modern Arnis.  _There are too many senior students, both in the USA and PI, to resolve that riddle.  MA-80 solves that riddle satisfactorily for me.  All for now.

Yours,
Dan


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## kruzada (Mar 21, 2006)

Dan Anderson said:
			
		

> He passes away in 2001 and I come out public with the branch.  I didin't even have a name change until after talking about it with Tim Hartman (who disagreed, by the way).  Anyway, MA-80 is what I would call a Fil-Am art.  I do not claim co-ownership with _Remy Presas Modern Arnis._



Thank you for the background information on MA-80. I have learned much about your perspective on Modern Arnis, and have enjoyed this discussion.

I hope our paths will cross someday. It would be an honor to meet you and exchange ideas.

-Rich


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## Buwaya (Mar 22, 2006)

Rich,

Can you say something about GM Mena's background in silat? I knew Tatay Joe, and I'm aware of his background in the moroland, but its not untill after his death I see people writing about a background in silat.

Thanks


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## kruzada (Mar 22, 2006)

Buwaya,

GM Mena never showed me any empty hand, Silat or otherwise. This is something that I heard many years prior to his passing, but I don't think that he openly taught Silat to anyone, at least that I know of.

I'll ask around and PM you when I find more information.

-Rich


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## Buwaya (Mar 23, 2006)

kruzada said:
			
		

> Buwaya,
> 
> GM Mena never showed me any empty hand, Silat or otherwise. This is something that I heard many years prior to his passing, but I don't think that he openly taught Silat to anyone, at least that I know of.
> 
> ...


Rich, I'm sending you a PM. Its actually not that private, but this is a MA thread.


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## Dalum (Mar 31, 2006)

Dan Anderson said:
			
		

> Hi Fred,
> In my opinion it has already happened. Even Prof. Presas wasn't "pure" _Filipino_ Modern Arnis. He had influences from Small Circle JuJutsu and Ryukyu Kenpo in the latter years. As he had no formal curriculum laid out in the USA, much of the Modern Arnis here in the US _is_ "American Modern Arnis." I it the continuing evolution of the art.
> 
> Yours,
> Dan Anderson


 
That's a very good point...  I think I was forgoing the fact that it was laready brought here to the US by Professor himself and thinking of the further evolution by people other than him.  I guess that here it would be TRUE American Modern Arnis till the next set of evolution.


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