# Could you have passed the 8th grade in 1895?



## KenpoTess (Dec 6, 2003)

.

Remember when grandparents and great-grandparents stated that they only had an 8th grade education? Well, check this out. Could any of us have passed the 8th grade in 1895? (LOOK CLOSELY... THAT IS EIGHTEEN NINETY FIVE!) This is the eighth-grade final exam from 1895 in Salina, Kansas, USA.

It was taken from the original document on file at the Smokey Valley Genealogical Society and Library in Salina, KS, and reprinted by the Salina Journal.
8th Grade Final Exam: Salina, KS - 1895
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Grammar (Time, one hour)

1. Give nine rules for the use of capital letters.
2. Name the parts of speech and define those that have no modifications.
3. Define verse, stanza and paragraph.
4. What are the principal parts of a verb? Give principal parts of "lie, "play," and "run."
5. Define case; Illustrate each case.
6. What is punctuation? Give rules for principal marks of punctuation.
7. - 10. Write a composition of about 150 words and show therein that you understand the practical use of the rules of grammar.
****************************** ***********
Arithmetic (Time, 1.25 hours)

1. Name and define the Fundamental Rules of Arithmetic.
2. A wagon box is 2 ft. deep, 10 feet long, and 3 ft. wide. How many bushels of wheat will it hold?
3. If a load of wheat weighs 3942 lbs., what is it worth at 50cts/bushel, deducting 1050 lbs. for tare?
4. District No. 33 has a valuation of $35,000. What is the necessary levy to carry on a school seven months at $50 per month, and have $104 for incidentals?
5. Find the cost of 6720 lbs. coal at $6.00 per ton.
6. Find the interest of $512.60 for 8 months and 18 days at 7 percent.
7. What is the cost of 40 boards 12 inches wide and 16 ft. long at $20 per metre?
8. Find bank discount on $300 for 90 days (no grace) at 10 percent.
9. What is the cost of a square farm at $15 per acre, the distance of which is 640 rods?
10. Write a Bank Check, a Promissory Note, and a Receipt.
****************************** **************
U.S. History (Time, 45 minutes)

1. Give the epochs into which U.S. History is divided.
2. Give an account of the discovery of America by Columbus.
3. Relate the causes and results of the Revolutionary War.
4. Show the territorial growth of the United States.
5. Tell what you can of the history of Kansas.
6. Describe three of the most prominent battles of the Rebellion.
7. Who were the following: Morse, Whitney, Fulton, Bell, Lincoln, Penn, and Howe?
8. Name events connected with the following dates:
1607, 1620, 1800, 1849, 1865.
********************************* **********
Orthography (Time, one hour)

(WHAT IS THIS ANYHOW? FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO DIDN'T GO TO CATHOLIC SCHOOL - THESE ARE THE SOUNDS THAT LETTERS AND COMBINATIONS OF LETTERS MAKE - WHY THERE IS A "LONG" O, IF THERE IS AN "E" AT THE END OF A WORD) *and Tommi says HUH?*

1. What is meant by the following: alphabet, phonetic, orthography, etymology, syllabication.
2. What are elementary sounds? How are they classified?
3. What are the following, and give examples of each: Trigraph, subvocals, diphthong, cognate letters, linguals.
4. Give four substitutes for caret 'u.'
(HUH? Tommi wonders if this is another language?)
5. Give two rules for spelling words with final 'e' under each rule.
6. Give two uses of silent letters in spelling. Illustrate each.
7. Define the following prefixes and use in connection with a word: bi, dis, mis, pre, semi, post, non, inter, mono, sup.
8. Mark diacritically and divide into syllables the following, and name the sign that indicates the sound: card, ball, mercy, sir, odd, cell, rise, blood, fare, last.
9. Use the following correctly in sentences: cite, site, sight, fane, fain, feign, vane, vain, vein, raze, raise, rays.
10. Write 10 words frequently mispronounced and indicate pronunciation by use of diacritical marks and by syllabication.
**************************************** *****
Geography (Time, one hour)

1. What is climate? Upon what does climate depend?
2. How do you account for the extremes of climate in Kansas?
3. Of what use are rivers? Of what use is the ocean?
4. Describe the mountains of North America.
5. Name and describe the following: Monrovia, Odessa, Denver, Manitoba,
Hecla, Yukon, St. Helena, Juan Fernandez, Aspinwall and Orinoco.
6. Name and locate the principal trade centers of the U.S.
7. Name all the republics of Europe and give the capital of each.
8. Why is the Atlantic Coast colder than the Pacific in the same latitude?
9. Describe the process by which the water of the ocean returns to the
sources of rivers.
10. Describe the movements of the earth. Give the inclination of the earth.
******************************** **************

Notice that the exam took SIX HOURS to complete.
Gives the saying "he only had an 8th grade education" a whole new meaning doesn't it?


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## pknox (Dec 6, 2003)

Wow.  If we could get back to teaching that stuff, we'd be in better shape!  Grammar is pretty much non-existent now, and as for geography, I asked one of my 8th graders last year 2 questions on my first day of classes:

1. What is the capital of NJ?
2. In what state did the Pilgrims land in 1620?

I kid you not - her answer for the first one was "New York City", and for the second, "Pennsylvania."  I expected to have to deal with a bunch of laughter ridiculing her, but I didn't, because nobody really thought it was that wrong.  When I even pointed out to her that Penna was not even near the ocean, she still didn't get it.  This was the same class that couldn't tell me what came first - Vietnam or the Civil War.  

Remember too that an 8th grade education back then was considered a pretty good one - there were many people who didn't even have that (plus a whole lot of people who couldn't read at all), so bragging about an 8th grade education was warranted (prob akin to having a college education today; not for depth of knowledge, but for the sake of comparison against the average).  I wonder if the 8th grade test was akin to sitting for the college boards of today. 

To put it in perspective, if I remember correctly, Abraham Lincoln, who was also a lawyer, had an 8th grade education.  Most of what he learned was self-taught, especially in the field of law. 

If we made kids sit for 6 hrs of finals today, we'd probably get sued.


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## ABN (Dec 6, 2003)

> _Originally posted by pknox _
> *If we made kids sit for 6 hrs of finals today, we'd probably get sued.  *



PK, 
   But not if they were told they had to sit through a six hour recitation of poetry by our dear former State Poet Laureate, Amiri Baraka. (or is it Leroi Jones I can never remember).

   Our students today are far less educated than 8th graders back then especially in regard to history, grammar, and geography. I teach 8th grade CCD (confirmation) and we end up often talking about the regular school day and the subjects they're taught. History is being ignored,  They don't diagram sentences and none of them had a grasp of geography beyond what they learned on their own or at home.  The world's getting too small to not know what else is in it besides us.

andy


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## michaeledward (Dec 6, 2003)

Thank you KenpoTess for finding and posting this quiz.

Very informative indeed.

Mike


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## satans.barber (Dec 6, 2003)

How old is '8th grade'? 

In fact, could someone briefly tell me how the American schooling system is broken down into years, I'm forever hearing about 'grades' and things on American films and I have absolutely no idea what they're talking about! Explanation of what 'seniors' etc. are would be grately appreciated!

In England, kids start school at age 5 and have 11 years of compulsary education working towards GCSE's (General Certifiate of Secondary Education, which used to be called O-Levels, short for Ordinary Level), so 'year 1' kids are 5, 'year 11' kids are 16. Then you can stay on for another two years to do A-levels (short for Advanced Level), which are years 12 and 13 (ages 17 and 18). Typically kids do 9 or 10 GCSE's and 3 to 5 A-Levels.

So if the systems line up then I guess 8th graders are about 12? I'm not sure if they do though which is why I'm asking!

Thanks,

Ian.


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## michaeledward (Dec 6, 2003)

In the US, schooling is mandatory for children through the age of 16. Although, each city or town is responsible for the actual execution of the school program, there are often rules set down by the state, as well as federal government.

Pre-schooling / Kindergarten for children 3, 4 and 5 years of age.

Elemetary School *School years 1 - 6 for children from 6 years of age, through 12 years of age.

Middle School *School Years 7 - 8  & sometimes 9 for children 13, 14 & 15 years of age.

High School * School Years (9) 10, 11 & 12 for children through the age of 17 or 18.

Each School Year consists of 180 days of classroom education. Some states are starting to require a 'High Stakes' test before the Diploma (Graduation Certificate - perhaps like your GCSE) is awarded. But in other states, just attending for 12 years is good enough to be a High School Graduate. Any student can choose to discontinue their education when they turn 16. 

What KenpoTess is pointing out is that an 8th grader, 100 years ago, was required to know more than many of us know today (including this College Graduate). There are nine rules that govern the use of Capitol Letters ... WoW ! I didn't know that. I bet I used capital letters wrong in that previous sentence. Hmm...

Cheers - Mike


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## TheRustyOne (Dec 6, 2003)

I'm in college, and I still don't have a firm grasp of sentence structure...

and like heck we ever EVER went into epochs in 8th grade!


wow. america is dumbing down drastically!


thanks for sharin, tess!


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## Makalakumu (Dec 6, 2003)

Before anyone slams our education system, lets take a look at ALL of the things our kids have to know in 2003.  Here are a few...

1.  Plate tectonics
2.  Genetics
3.  Computers

Our kids need to know so much more on a wide variety of topics that it is unfair to compare them to a time when the body of knowledge was small enough to delve into specifics.  I hope this makes a few people feel better.  Believe me, we know more now then we did in 1895.  Don't kid yourself.

upnorthkyosa


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## jkn75 (Dec 6, 2003)

Notice there is very little science. Kids now take classes in physics, chemistry, and biology. Also all the math has to do with farming and sales (how many bushels, bank notes, etc.) but no algebra. Finally orthography and grammar have been combined into "English". 

And if you want to see what the SAT's are like in comparison go here. Good luck.


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## Randy Strausbaugh (Dec 6, 2003)

Consider also that classroom sizes were much smaller then.  I know that it's usually used as a slam to claim that teachers are lazy, but it just makes sense.  Given a finite number of classroom hours, the fewer students a teacher has, the more time he/she may devote to each student.  Students tend to respond better to instruction which is more individualized.  They're also more likely to act up if they feel that they are just part of a crowd.


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## Makalakumu (Dec 7, 2003)

I teach at an alternative school for "at-risk" youth.  These kids are "at-risk" of not graduating, "at-risk" of going to jail, "at-risk" of drug addiction ect...bottom line, martial arts come in handy at my school.  Not to smack anyone around - its the confidence part.  

Here is my point, my students are students that teachers have continually kicked out of their classes for behavior issues so we have class sizes between 6-12.  We use field activities, service learning, and vocational community involvement to hook them into learning.  

I still see behaviors, but they are greatly diminished and I am able to deal with each of them when they happen.  Also, the education my students get is individualized to the learner's learning style.  Basically, I am taking students who have a 0% chance of success in school and increasing their chances by over half.  We don't save all of them because there are some really bad problems we just can't fix.  

Just imagine.  What if all schools were like this?  If we could raise the success bar for everyone by half would you see any acheivement gap?  How would we compare to other countries?

Beware, I'm going to get on the stump.   :soapbox: 

Unfunded mandates and increased standardized testing is not going to make public education better.  Only smaller schools, small class sizes and more teachers is going to make a difference.  My school is direct evidence of this.  We need to stop beating around the "Bush" and look at the issue that no body wants to deal with.  Schools are not factories and our kids are not products.


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## TheRustyOne (Dec 7, 2003)

> _Originally posted by upnorthkyosa _
> *
> 
> Unfunded mandates and increased standardized testing is not going to make public education better.  Only smaller schools, small class sizes and more teachers is going to make a difference.  My school is direct evidence of this.  We need to stop beating around the "Bush" and look at the issue that no body wants to deal with.  Schools are not factories and our kids are not products. *




Yes, but we're only gonna get a change if we can get people to VOTE! (haha, i should be talking, i try and stay out of politics!)

Smaller schools, smaller class sizes, more teachers = more money needed. And smaller schools means bigger class sizes. My graduating class (class of 2002) was about 200 some kids, that year's freshman class was bigger than the graduating class. My high school had a limit of 1500 kids, and it was way over. So my school is getting bigger. But even in the bigger, newer schools in my home county, even with more teachers, class sizes are still heinously big. I got bumped from 12th grade AP English (AP English Lit.) to 11th grade AP (Language) along with a few other seniors because of class sizes.

I'm glad I have my diploma, and I'm glad I got into my current college, but i really look down on American education systems.

okay, enough of my babbling...


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## Makalakumu (Dec 7, 2003)

Is it really any wonder why our public schools need work?  No body is willing to look in the direction they need to.  Its going to require sacrifice and Americans forgot how to do that sometime in the past  

upnorth


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## qizmoduis (Dec 8, 2003)

> _Originally posted by upnorthkyosa _
> *Is it really any wonder why our public schools need work?  No body is willing to look in the direction they need to.  Its going to require sacrifice and Americans forgot how to do that sometime in the past
> 
> upnorth *



You can't really make a blanket statement like that about public schools.  It's not all public schools that are a problem, but rather a portion of them that are underfunded, overpopulated, overmandated, and have to contend with lots of heavy duty social issues they have no control over.

My school district is excellent.  My daughter COULD tell you about the Pilgrims, and she's in first grade.  She couldn't tell you the capitol of New Jersey, but frankly, I can't see why anybody would care about that anyway.  NJ is pretty much - That mass of bad roads that exists between Pennsylvania and the shore, anyway.  I'm very satisfied with her curriculum right now.

Private schools are no solution, because they generally don't service the same population as the stressed public schools.  I went to private (Catholic) school, and I can definitely say that, despite the hype, only a small percentage of my class went on to college.  The rest graduated stupid/pregnant (to be fair, some probably couldn't afford college).

The local public school district had a higher percentage go on to college.


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## Jay Bell (Dec 8, 2003)

This email is a hoax:

http://www.snopes.com/language/document/1895exam.htm


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## pknox (Dec 8, 2003)

> _Originally posted by qizmoduis _
> *She couldn't tell you the capitol of New Jersey, but frankly, I can't see why anybody would care about that anyway.  NJ is pretty much - That mass of bad roads that exists between Pennsylvania and the shore, anyway.*



Spoken like a true Pennsylvanian. 

However, I may have failed to mention that the school was in NJ, and the student in question was/is a lifelong resident of the state.  I know not every 8th grader knows the capital of every state in the union (a different gripe), but I would hope they would at least know the capitol of their home state.  If the girl had answered "Newark" or "Atlantic City" or something, I may have even cut her a bit more slack, as those are at least in New Jersey -- "New York City" was an amazingly inappropriate answer, given that it's obviously in New York, just as the name suggests.  It just boggles my mind that she couldn't put that together, after 9 years of school (counting Kindergarten).  Tess is right - common sense is truly dead.

Think about it - if you asked someone what state "_New York_ City" was in, and they answered "New Jersey," wouldn't you be shocked?


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## OULobo (Dec 8, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Jay Bell _
> *This email is a hoax:
> 
> http://www.snopes.com/language/document/1895exam.htm *



I don't think they say it's a hoax, just that it is presented in a less than realistic context. They (Snopes.com) explain why this test isn't a good gauge of knowledge for people in today's society.


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## rmcrobertson (Dec 8, 2003)

Well, another, "the good old days were better," argument.

Here's a question I got in eighth-grade biology, around 1967:

"Discuss the chemistry of the evolution of life on earth, up to and including the formation of complex organic compounds."

Let's go ask them 1890-ers THAT one.

Or: "Was slavery the major cause of the Civil War?"
Or: "Who were Frederick Douglass and Martin Luther King?"
Or: "Discuss four major methods of contraception."
Or: "What are the primary differences between Catholics and Protestants?"
Or: "What is an atom? Draw, and label, the major components of a hydrogen atom."
Or: "What does a computer's processor do?"
Or...well, you get my point.


Well, you get my point.


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## qizmoduis (Dec 9, 2003)

I agree. There is no such thing as "The Good Olde Days".  Overactive nostalgia really bugs the crap out of me.


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## someguy (Dec 9, 2003)

People like to think of the good old days with out the bad parts attached most of the time.  Give me a choice and I'll stay right here.  Much better age to live in.


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## TheRustyOne (Dec 9, 2003)

> _Originally posted by pknox _
> *
> 
> Think about it - if you asked someone what state "New York City" was in, and they answered "New Jersey," wouldn't you be shocked? *




LOL. no. because to the rest of us non Jerseys, almost all of northern New Jersey wants to be like New York.

...as for the mass of bad roads, i made 4 left turns on one road, and never once crossed myself. my dad works in jersey, so i gotta cut him some slack. only reason we live in maryland is that the cost of living is high in jersey. gotta pay for those attendants to pump your gas for you, eh?  ...surprisingly, from what i've dealt with, the Turnpike is better than I-95 in delaware (my mom lives in wilmington. i live w/ dad)

...okay! enough of off-topic jersey bashing!


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## don bohrer (Dec 9, 2003)

Interesting problem we have here teaching our youth. I believe It simply comes down to having a condusive learning enviroment, teachers willing to teach, students willing to learn, and parents willing to participate in their childs education. Yeah thats alot of (wills) out there, and maybe thats the problem... too many. 


don


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## TonyM. (Dec 10, 2003)

I think it's obvious we've lowered the bar and it was a big mistake. I remember when they started grading on a curve in the 60's I was very happy that passing tests became easier. Now of course I realize that actually learning something is a lot more important than passing or even looking looking smart by getting good grades. Sadly none of this applies to the history I was taught in the fifties and sixties. Most of that I've had to scratch at relearning because human nature seems to dictate that historians can never tell the truth. Or if the truth was their **** they couldn't find it with two hands.


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## KenpoTess (Dec 10, 2003)

Mod Note

I've created a new 'Interesting Food combinations from your area' thread and split the food comments to that one.. 

Thanks for keeping things on topic

Tess
MT Mod


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## old_sempai (Dec 10, 2003)

8th grade, best 10 years of my life!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

and then there was High School... but that's another story!!!!!!


artyon:


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## rmcrobertson (Dec 10, 2003)

I'm wit' Don on this one. Gimme the class, pay me decently, educate me adequately, make sure I'm not a lunatic, and stay the hell out of my way.

It would also help, of course, if the students were a) fed when they got to school and the night before, b) unworried about their kids, c) free of fear about getting beat up on the way home or AT home, d) able to have quiet time to study, e) able to have the books to study with, f) able to live somewhere halfway decent, g) able to learn in a society that did not reward obviously-ignorant morons like Dan Quayle, John Rocker, and Britney Spears so highly, h) able to learn in a society that did not feature quite so much hypocrisy by the "elders," (Wm Bennett comes immediately to mind, as do Jesse Jackson and  Pat Robertson) who pontificate at them.

Much of our present problem with education comes from the fact that over the last twenty years or so, we've actually had to start living up to the commitment to educate EVERYBODY, and many Americans simply don't want to pay for it. 

Here's a comment you'll really hate: regardless of his buffoonery as President, Bill Clinton is a beautiful example of everything that's right about the American educational system. The fact that we are making it harder and harder for such people is a sign of exactly what's wrong.

Yeah, I'm saying throw money at the problem. Why not? We throw money at our movies, our pets, our cosmetics, our quack nostrums, our stupid B-2 bombers, our political parties, our tax breaks for the wealthy, our stock market, our Enrons...

Of course, once I'm king, there will also be a bump in unemployment as about 10-20% of teachers at all levels, and about 30-40% of administrators in schools, have to go scrabbling for new jobs. Also unemployed will be the sorts of morons who lobby to get tests changed because the tests included some essay on vegetarianism, and the history books changed because they offhandedly note that homosexuals were put into camps by the Nazis, and the lit books changed because, "Huckleberry Finn," tells the truth. 

There will also be a lot of yelling when we start teaching real history and real biology again--and students will despair, because they will all have to do the frickin' work in order to pass.

Once I'm king, that is. Till then, I expect more nonsense.


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## khadaji (Dec 10, 2003)

I think most of us could have passed the test if we learned under the corrisponding curriculum.  

The large problem in schools today (other then politics) is that we have much more information, and expectations that the children have to meet. 

people had a lot better memory before the printing press was invented.   

the things we find important change over time.  There is nothing bad about it.


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## arnisador (Dec 10, 2003)

Thread moved.

-Arnisador
-MT Admin-


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