# Modern Arnis Community/United Nations



## Pappy Geo (Mar 7, 2003)

I was watching the UN Security Council this morning and it came to me that the "fragmentized" Modern Arnis Community is similar to the UN Security Council, posturing and communicating over who is on first base.

Now this is not meant to be controversial just an observation that posturing is common even amongst world leaders.


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## Mao (Mar 7, 2003)

.......since not too many people think exactly alike, there will always be differing opinions. What matters is how we handle them.
Respectfully,
Guro Dan McConnell
IMAF, inc. Board of Directors
Modern Arnis of Ohio


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## Cruentus (Mar 7, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Mao _
> *.......since not too many people think exactly alike, there will always be differing opinions. What matters is how we handle them. *



I agree also. I know that I haven't always handled myself in the best manner. But, I think, as time progresses things will work themselves out. Some will definatily drop out of the scene, and the ones who stick around will all be able to work together, no matter what organization or school of thought, to help continue the growth of the art.


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## Dan Anderson (Mar 7, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Mao _
> *.......since not too many people think exactly alike, there will always be differing opinions. What matters is how we handle them.
> Respectfully,
> Guro Dan McConnell
> ...



I absolutely agree with Dan.  Very well stated.
Yours,
Dan Anderson


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## DoctorB (Mar 8, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Pappy Geo _
> *I was watching the UN Security Council this morning and it came to me that the "fragmentized" Modern Arnis Community is similar to the UN Security Council, posturing and communicating over who is on first base.
> 
> Now this is not meant to be controversial just an observation that posturing is common even amongst world leaders. *



Ok Pappy Geo, three people, Mao, Dan and Paul responded in general agreement with your observation and analogy.  Now comes the hard part, how do we get Modern Arnis beyond the limitations of the UN?  I am open to suggestions and would love to have anyone on the forum start the 'ideas train' rolling.

Of course you all know what I would suggest as one (1) and I do mean just one (1) means of getting the "community" working together, but I would not want upset anyone by mentioning a certin word   

However, placing all levity aside I am open to suggestions.  I don't see anything controversial about what you wrote Pappy Geo, I saw the same situations that promoted your remarks.
Let's hope that we can be taken seriously and people work to to put forward some sound ideas, then work to make them happen.
Talk is cheap and very easy...

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.


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## Dan Anderson (Mar 8, 2003)

> _Originally posted by DoctorB _
> *Now comes the hard part, how do we get Modern Arnis beyond the limitations of the UN?  I am open to suggestions and would love to have anyone on the forum start the 'ideas train' rolling.
> 
> Of course you all know what I would suggest as one (1) and I do mean just one (1) means of getting the "community" working together, but I would not want upset anyone by mentioning a certin word
> ...



The first step would be to quit the dissing each other, both covertly and overtly.  Then some get together can happen.  I don't believe the entire Modern Arnis _family_  will ever work together in blissful harmony.  Too many bull headed individuals in the family.  Note:  I am the first to make that claim for myself as well.  I beat you all to it.  :rofl: 

I do think we can all not work *against* each other, though.  That is a definite beginning.

Yours,
Dan Anderson

PS - Symposium Symposium Symposium Symposium Symposium Symposium Symposium Symposium Symposium Symposium 
I said it for you (hee hee  )


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## Rich Parsons (Mar 8, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Dan Anderson _
> *The first step would be to quit the dissing each other, both covertly and overtly.  Then some get together can happen.  I don't believe the entire Modern Arnis family  will ever work together in blissful harmony.  Too many bull headed individuals in the family.  Note:  I am the first to make that claim for myself as well.  I beat you all to it.  :rofl:
> 
> I do think we can all not work against each other, though.  That is a definite beginning.
> ...




I agree that not everyone will get along with everyone else.

We could all be accepting of others, in the small things. This would allow for the new people to not believe that there is only politics in Modern Arnis.

Wilingness to listen to others to see if they have something to offer.

:asian:


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## Cruentus (Mar 10, 2003)

I think that "Work Together" and "Get Along" are 2 different things. I agree; some people will never really "get along," or "agree" on how things should be done, but we all might be able to work together to better the art. I think that this is a realistic goal that we can hope for.


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## DoctorB (Mar 11, 2003)

> _Originally posted by PAUL _
> *I think that "Work Together" and "Get Along" are 2 different things. I agree; some people will never really "get along," or "agree" on how things should be done, but we all might be able to work together to better the art. I think that this is a realistic goal that we can hope for.  *



Paul, I can agree with your ideas as expressed above.  There are numerous ways that working together can be accomplished.  It would be a good thing if some people "got together" locally and regionally to start the process of "working together" for the advancement of the art.  We have to start from where we are and work outward to connect with others.  We all have to sacrifice some of our individual egos to begin the process of working together.  We have to be MUTUALLY SUPPORTIVE of one anothers efforts to promote Modern Arnis.

Mao, posted the following comments:

I would agree with Pappy Geo 
.......since not too many people think exactly alike, there will always be differing opinions. What matters is how we handle them.
Respectfully,
Guro Dan McConnell
IMAF, inc. Board of Directors
Modern Arnis of Ohio

=================

Therein lies the real trick to getting the goal of "working together" turned into a real plan and finally actual behavior.  We'll see over time if this becomes a reality in some place and for some people.   

I still have to be be somewhat cautious because I do not see this thread attacting too many contributors and all of the statements are very generalized, sannitized safe and so easy to post  on a forum.  I want to see and hearabout some concrete actions that are directed toward achieveing the goal. Without action/ real behavior nothing is actually accomplished. 

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.


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## Datu Tim Hartman (Mar 11, 2003)

I think we should learn to co-exist before we try to work together.


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## Cruentus (Mar 11, 2003)

> Without action/ real behavior nothing is actually accomplished.



I agree. I think the symposium concept is a good step in this direction, although there are some who aren't ready to cooperate with the idea just yet.

But before any real concrete steps can be taken, it is probably going to take time to weed out a lot of B.S. first. As individuals, we can try to step outside of our backyard as much as we can, and see what other groups, whether independants or organizations, have to offer. Maybe then arnis students can make informed decisions on who's "Modern Arnis" works best for them.

I don't know what the answer really is, but it makes sense, as Renegade said, that we need to be able to co-exist first. I just think that some time has to pass for this to occur. In the mean time we can work within our own group to improve our own skill,  and step outside our backyards to see what else is out there. A gradual effort to do this will better our ability to co-exist in time.


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## norshadow1 (Mar 11, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Renegade _
> *I think we should learn to co-exist before we try to work together. *



We already co-exist when we have seperate house that we live in and work out of.  You have the WMAA, Shea/Motts are the IMAF, Inc., Delaney/McManus are the IMAF and Kelly Worden is the WMAC.  Everyone is already in existence, when would you propose the process of trying to work together begins?

Lamont


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## Datu Tim Hartman (Mar 11, 2003)

> _Originally posted by norshadow1 _
> *We already co-exist when we have seperate house that we live in and work out of.  You have the WMAA, Shea/Motts are the IMAF, Inc., Delaney/McManus are the IMAF and Kelly Worden is the WMAC.  Everyone is already in existence, when would you propose the process of trying to work together begins?
> 
> Lamont *



Co-exist peacefully.


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## norshadow1 (Mar 11, 2003)

> _Originally posted by PAUL _
> *I agree. I think the symposium concept is a good step in this direction, although there are some who aren't ready to cooperate with the idea just yet.
> 
> But before any real concrete steps can be taken, it is probably going to take time to weed out a lot of B.S. first. As individuals, we can try to step outside of our backyard as much as we can, and see what other groups, whether independants or organizations, have to offer. Maybe then arnis students can make informed decisions on who's "Modern Arnis" works best for them.
> ...



Respectfully, I have to disagee, Paul.  You are trying to have it both ways,

1. "As individuals, we can try to step outside of our backyard as much as we can, and see what other groups, whether independants or organizations, have to offer. Maybe then arnis students can make informed decisions on who's "Modern Arnis" works best for them."

2. "I just think that some time has to pass for this to occur. In the mean time we can work within our own group to improve our own skill,  and step outside our backyards to see what else is out there. A gradual effort to do this will better our ability to co-exist in time."

How much time needs to pass?  In a medical analogy, bad things never go away by themselves - you need to face the fact that there is an illness and go get treatment.

There are problems in Modern Arnis, now we have to face the demons within ourselves, step outside our comfortable niches and work to establish some cooperative ventures.  Start close to home, if one person is not receptive, try another.  Give a little to get a little, I was always told.  The time to start is now, what if tomorrow isn't there for some person?

BTW, head teachers of schools and organization leaders need to take the lead in establishing the cooperative efforts, although students can help by not being critical of others not studdying in their particular school.

Lamont


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## Cruentus (Mar 11, 2003)

> How much time needs to pass? In a medical analogy, bad things never go away by themselves - you need to face the fact that there is an illness and go get treatment.



If your going with the medical analogy, most illnesses, or in this case, injuries aren't cured overnight. Some injuries take years of therapy before fully cured.

I just know it is going to take time for us to be able to "co-esxist peacefully," whether we like it or not. Sure, we need to work towards a solution (problems don't just fix themselves), but it will take time for these to be fully implimented. This is usually the case for any kind of change, even positive ones.

I proposed that people just (1.)continue to build quality w/in their respective groups, (2.)while seeing what others have to offer. That's just steps 1 and 2. 

Maybe a step 3 would be to better communication between organizations and factions acrossed the board. I think that communication has been drastically improved by the internet and talk forums, whether people like it or not. We need to move beyond that, however. I should feel like I can call a representative from any organization or independant and say, "Hey, I'm in town. Do you mind if I stop by this seminar?" Some groups have a pretty open communication line, others have closed themselves off. Others are closed because either they feel that they shouldn't have to communicate from people outside of their own organization, or that they don't have to answer to anyone but themselves, or perhaps they just haven't worked out their Public Relation difficulties, or whatever. It is my opinion that to take a non-communatative stance is wrong, and that we all have to answer to each other even if we disagree. So, communication still has room for improvement.

Maybe a step 4 would then be organizations and factions cross-training with each other. I might be a WMAA member, but maybe I decide that this person who isn't a WMAA member would be of value to train a seminar with, or to send students too. Then they decide to do a WMAA seminar to see what value we have. Then, networks are built. I know that this is being done to a much smaller degree now, but in time, and with better communication we'll be able to do this across the board.

Then Maybe a step 5 will happend with "Mergers." Just like coorporate mergers 2 companies ajoin into 1, maybe some of the organizations who don't disappear will decide to join with others into one large organization. Maybe they keep their org. name, but make it  "a division of so-and-so." Who knows? I honestly do forsee this happening in the future, however, even if it is the WAY distant future. I know it happends on a smaller scale right now, with individual instructors and schools deciding to change organizations, or link with other independents.

These are some concrete steps spelled out in better detail, and that are happening right now on a smaller scale. I think that these steps will continue to progress overtime. I don't know if these are the best solutions that we have available, however, but right now it seems to me that this is the direction that things are going.

I know the 2 things that are hurdles in our progress right now, though. These are #1. dishonesty & Egotism, and #2. lack of communication, usually a result from #1. There are too many people out there who inflate themselves, pretend that they are something they are not, or even outright lie. This causes rifts among the M.A. community, which makes it difficult to open up the communication lines. If you want a solution that will speed up the process of "co-existance" then WE MUST FIND A WAY TO PREVENT PEOPLE FROM LIEING in Modern Arnis. We probably can't "make" people not lie, but it would be nice to have some sort of check and balance system where if someone fabricates a load of crap, the public will speak out and say so. This is what we really need, because the Bulls**t has got to stop. Either we have to stop it, or it dies on its own. I have attempted to call out actions of certian individuals before, yet despite all of the agreement in my favor, the individuals that I addressed continued on with their ways. In an attempt to help the art by stopping fustrating acts of deception, all it earned me was anger from some who disagreed, while others forgot about my efforts completely. It changed very little. So as you can imagine, I unfortunatily do not have a solution as to how to stop the B.S. through a check and balance system, because there are many occasions where when I, along with the masses, have spoken out, yet the offenders would not admit fault, or even listen. So this only leaves letting the "lies" die on their own; in other words with the gradual progression of things hopefully the truth will come out, and the lies will fall to the wayside. 

Anyways, this seems to be the way things are progressing thusfar, but if anyone has concrete open suggestions as to how to improve the political climate so we can "co-exist," other then what I have said thus far, I would be happy to listen. I certianly don't have even close to all of the answers.....


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## Rich Parsons (Mar 11, 2003)

Co-exist and then  . . . 


Well, My Plans are as follows.

I have already met and trained with Datu Hartman and Senior Master Anderson.

I have plans to travel to Reno NV , to See a MARPIO seminar, Remy Jr and Rodel. 

I have plans to attend the WMAA camp in May to meet and train with  Datu (GM) Rick Bon Jornalas (* Note: This man is  Datu in Modern Arnis and has inherited his family system and is a GM also. *)

I have plans to attend (* sent in deposit *) to the 2003 Symposium for Modern Arnis, where many of the other Seniors of Modern Arnis will be at.

The list of those I will nat have the priviledge to train with, then
will be Datu Kelley Worden, Datu Hoffman, and a couple of the Masters of Tapi-Tapi.

I was able to train with Dr Schea and JD and Chuck Guass before the Death of Professor Presas.


So, this is how I Plan on trying to get along with everyone.


Just my way.


:asian:


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## norshadow1 (Mar 12, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Rich Parsons _
> *Co-exist and then  . . .
> 
> 
> ...



Hi Rich,

That is an excellent plan.  If you did half of it you would be doing more than many people to meet and work with others in Modern Arnis.

Lamont


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## Cruentus (Mar 12, 2003)

> _Originally posted by norshadow1 _
> *Hi Rich,
> 
> That is an excellent plan.  If you did half of it you would be doing more than many people to meet and work with others in Modern Arnis.
> ...



I definatily agree w/ Lamont, and that sounds like a good plan! 

I know that realistically I won't be able to travel as much as I would like at least for the next couple of years. But once I build my career up, I will have the means and flexability to go out and see everyone I can, which is also my personal plan.  Heck, I might even be able to visit some of the people who hate me...it'll be nice to see how they're doing also!


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## Rich Parsons (Mar 16, 2003)

> _Originally posted by norshadow1 _
> *Hi Rich,
> 
> That is an excellent plan.  If you did half of it you would be doing more than many people to meet and work with others in Modern Arnis.
> ...




Lamont,


This is only some of the stuff I have committed to either financially or given my word.

I also might hit some seminars in London Ont. for various arts,as
well as South East Michigan.

The Michgan Camp for the IMAF Schea Group ios a possibility, yet I cannot commit.  That month I am schedule for work to be IN Italy one week and most likely China another week. Even if the week of the Camp 6/19-6/22, I am here in Michigan I might be too busy recovering from one trip or getting ready for another.


Also, I hope to maybe add a couple of more events to my schedule in the Fall time frame. Being a single Engineer, I have some time and some cash for trips that are extened weekends and are within a days drive!

I also, take at least one private lesson Balintawak a week, I train every week with two others who also take Private lesson more often then I do. This is on top of teachign Modern Arnis a few nigts a week in Class and giving my own Privates.

It is not just a hobby  :asian:


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## Rich Parsons (Mar 16, 2003)

> _Originally posted by PAUL _
> *I definatily agree w/ Lamont, and that sounds like a good plan!
> 
> I know that realistically I won't be able to travel as much as I would like at least for the next couple of years. But once I build my career up, I will have the means and flexability to go out and see everyone I can, which is also my personal plan.  Heck, I might even be able to visit some of the people who hate me...it'll be nice to see how they're doing also!  *




Paul,

Each person has to do what they can do, wiht in their own limits.

Besides You will contibute! and Thanks!

:asian:


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## norshadow1 (Mar 21, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Pappy Geo _
> *I was watching the UN Security Council this morning and it came to me that the "fragmentized" Modern Arnis Community is similar to the UN Security Council, posturing and communicating over who is on first base.
> 
> Now this is not meant to be controversial just an observation that posturing is common even amongst world leaders. *



I have read through everything posted several times.  I am impressed with the clear insights given about the need to work together.  But so far I have seen only three concrete examples of people standing behind their words with actions - Dan Anderson, Rich Parsons and Dr. Jerome Barber.  Perhaps I have missed something.

Lamont


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## Rich Parsons (Mar 22, 2003)

> _Originally posted by norshadow1 _
> *I have read through everything posted several times.  I am impressed with the clear insights given about the need to work together.  But so far I have seen only three concrete examples of people standing behind their words with actions - Dan Anderson, Rich Parsons and Dr. Jerome Barber.  Perhaps I have missed something.
> 
> Lamont *




Lamont,

Even though I like the compliment, I think you might be forgetting a whole lot of people.

Namely all the people out there hosting seminars and giving seminars. Tim Hartman and the WMAA, the IMAF Schea Group, MARPIO, et al.

With out all these people hosting and instructing, no one would learn.

Now it might be difficult for someone to be a senior person of one group to go and train and obtain instruction from one of the other groups. As this would be a bad marketing move for them, I can see how it may not happen.

As, I am a lower ranked person and independant, I have more freedom and less restrictions.

Just my thoughts, and thanks again.  :asian:


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## Red Blade (Mar 23, 2003)

> _Originally posted by norshadow1 _
> *I have read through everything posted several times.  I am impressed with the clear insights given about the need to work together.  But so far I have seen only three concrete examples of people standing behind their words with actions - Dan Anderson, Rich Parsons and Dr. Jerome Barber.  Perhaps I have missed something.
> 
> Lamont *



Could you explain this statement?


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## bloodwood (Mar 23, 2003)

> I have read through everything posted several times. I am impressed with the clear insights given about the need to work together. But so far I have seen only three concrete examples of people standing behind their words with actions - Dan Anderson, Rich Parsons and Dr. Jerome Barber. Perhaps I have missed something.



Lamont
I think you have missed a lot. As Red Blade has stated, Please explain this statement. It seems ridiculous and way off base. Besides, What are YOU doing to make things better other than being the Who's Working With Who Police?

Bloodwood


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## Datu Tim Hartman (Mar 23, 2003)

> _Originally posted by norshadow1 _
> I have read through everything posted several times.  I am impressed with the clear insights given about the need to work together.  But so far I have seen only three concrete examples of people standing behind their words with actions - Dan Anderson, Rich Parsons and Dr. Jerome Barber.  Perhaps I have missed something.
> 
> Lamont



Yeah, I'm curious also.


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## Dan Anderson (Mar 24, 2003)

Lamont,

Thanks for the compliment but I am as curious as the rest.  Hey, if this works the way it might, I'll be again the center of yet another controversy.  Lucky me. :erg: 

Yours,
Dan Anderson

PS - My offhand thinky think on this is our very vocal promotion of the upcoming Symposium.


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## norshadow1 (Mar 24, 2003)

> _Originally posted by bloodwood _
> *Lamont
> I think you have missed a lot. As Red Blade has stated, Please explain this statement. It seems ridiculous and way off base. Besides, What are YOU doing to make things better other than being the Who's Working With Who Police?
> 
> Bloodwood *



Perhaps, I am not the one who has missed a great deal!

Lamont


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## norshadow1 (Mar 24, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Dan Anderson _
> *Lamont,
> 
> Thanks for the compliment but I am as curious as the rest.  Hey, if this works the way it might, I'll be again the center of yet another controversy.  Lucky me. :erg:
> ...



Dan,

You are welcome with regard to the compliment.  I am just reading the mail and taking what I have read at face value.
I doubt that you will be the at the center of any other controversies and my comments really are not a promotion of 
the symposium. 

To answer several people at once - You were mentioned because you will be attending the WMAA Camp and then the symposium.
Two trips from the left coast, when I recall that someone said it was too far and expense to make a single trip for a Modern Arnis event.

Rich Parsons was mentioned because of the potential camps/seminars that he intends to participate in.  Most of us can't do what he might do because of work, cash and possibly family considerations.  I envy his flexibility.

Dr. Barber, was mentioned because he has organized the symposium and opened it to ALL Modern Arnis students and instructors without regard for any organizational affiliations.
A very difficult task and I have seen some posts suggesting that he has taken on an impossible task.  In addition he is going to be attending the WMAA Camp in May.  That is significant since he is not a WMAA member and he was originally scheduled to attend the Tracy Kenpo meeting in Chicago, regarding the planned succession of GM Al Tracy.  

Given all of the fallout and bickering after the passing of Yip Man, Ed Parker and Remy Presas, the Tracy's are going to try to nip that problem before it raises it's ugly head.  Given the importance of that meeting, since Dr. Barber, is a member of the Tracy organization, his attending the WMAA Camp is quite significant. 

In the context of this particular thread and the statements made by the thread orginator as well as the comments posted later, I named the people who posted on this thread and who were doing more than just posting (talking).  I never said that these were the only people putting action behind their posts, I mentioned them as examples.  ALL anologies and examples are flawed.  ALL analogies and example should break down under strong scrutiny, and this example would be no exception.

Do I have a "policing function"?  No!  But I suggest that people be very careful about making such statements or inferences, even within a rethorical question, because I am not one of those people who jump all over Jeff Delaney and Lisa McManus in posts.  I am not a fan or supporter of either person, but when posting about them, some people do take on that 'policing mantle'. 

As to what I am doing to help establish a better Modern Arnis Community, I am organizing several of my former classmates to attend the symposium.  I am going to attend a Modern Arnis Inc. camp with two former classmate, because one of my friends lives in Chicago and wants to attend.  (Putting MY Money where My Mouth has been.)

Lamont


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## norshadow1 (Mar 24, 2003)

quote: Originally posted by norshadow1 

In addition he is going to be attending the WMAA Camp in May. That is significant since he is not a WMAA member.
Lamont  


Dan IS a WMAA member. Unless some one forgot to tell me something.


__________________
As it is written, so shall it be.
So Says The Renegade


The point to be made is that he is making TWO TRIPS to the East Coast.  It is also important to note that he is supporting a braoder venture in addition to supporting an organizational gathering.  Many, if not most people will stay within the comfort zone of their organizational membership.

Lamont


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## Dan Anderson (Mar 24, 2003)

It appears the last post got tangled together with another.  It looks like Renegade's post got hooked up in Norshadow 1's slot.

Anyway, I am currently a member of WMAA and yes it is going to be quite an expense to hit both camps.  I am working on offsetting the costs by doing some karate seminars of my own which do not conflict with the purposes of the camps.

Yours,
Dan Anderson

PS - King Crimson is going to be in Portland tomorrow night and I am going to be in pig heaven.  Yeehah!


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## Datu Tim Hartman (Mar 25, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Dan Anderson _
> *
> PS - King Crimson is going to be in Portland tomorrow night and I am going to be in pig heaven.  Yeehah! *



Cool! Islands baby!


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## Dan Anderson (Mar 25, 2003)

This is going to be some rugged business.  Any of you out there interested, check out the new release _The Power To Believe._ It'll put hair on your chest.  Ladies, watch out! :boing2:
Yours,
Dan Anderson


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## bloodwood (Mar 25, 2003)

Lamont
Since joining this forum you are trying to be the one with all the answers and the one who gives every one advice. You also have political undertones to your posts and are deeply entrenched in DrB's corner. I don't get it all but I don't miss much either.

Bloodwood


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## Emptyglass (Mar 26, 2003)

Bloodwood:

I think Lamont has some strong opinions on subjects but I don't see evidence of political undertones. I thought we were trying to keep politics out of these forums. May be I'm misunderstanding the purpose though. I've noticed that you also have very strong opinions which express often and freely.

As for giving advice, I would think that it is always freely offered but not forced to be taken. I don't like to give advice, since it is usually a frustrating endeavor for me but Lamont obviously has a higher tolerance for frustration than me if he is indeed doing so.

As for having all of the answers. In the past I've noticed that Lamont has more than most in many cases.

Ahh well, just a difference of opinion I suppose. Will you be at the Symposium in July? I'd love to meet you and to talk about these sorts of things over a few beers.

Regards,

Richard Curren


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## norshadow1 (Mar 26, 2003)

> _Originally posted by bloodwood _
> *Lamont
> Since joining this forum you are trying to be the one with all the answers and the one who gives every one advice. You also have political undertones to your posts and are deeply entrenched in DrB's corner. I don't get it all but I don't miss much either.
> 
> Bloodwood *



I don't give advice, I make statements about what I believe to be true.  I have also withheld some statements because I know that they would inflame some people.  Sure, I like DocB, so what?
I have been to camps and seminars that he has hosted and everyone of them was a success in terms of the instruction.  I also attended seminars that he taught.  He is an excellent teacher.  I have seen several of his students at the college over an extended period of time.  They developed into very strong and capable martial artists.  So the man has earned my respect.  Just because you might not know him (and I do not have any information in either direction) that is no reason why I should with hold my positive respct for him.  There are numerous people who expressed their liking of other instructors/leaders.  Have I commented on who others like?  NO!

As I mentioned in another post on another thread, I have a worked with in seminars and/ or camps with a number of people who will be presenting at the symposium in July.  They are all very good people.  there are several who I have not met before and I am looking forward to meeting them.  If there is a scheduling conflict between some one I know and another whom I do not know, then I will most likely resolve it in favor of the unknown person, because I want to see what others have to offer.  I am not locking myself into a comfortable box, I am going to take some risks.  You and all others are free to do as you wish.

I am aware of the uphill battle a lot of people are facing with the death of Professor Presas.  I am also aware that some people have been quite adament about no one ever being able to replace Professor.  I have noted that some people are quite strongly pointed toward the idea that there will never be another Modern Arnis grand master.  I do not happen to share that latter point of view, but I will grant you that Jeff Delaney is not the person that I would support as the GM.  As I see it and as I have read a number of your past posts, you are not a 'shrinking violet' either.

I do not expect everyone to agree with me.  Wouldn't be any fun if they did.  I have not flamed or slandered anyone, I simpy have written what I felt I wanted to say and I have deliberately stayed away from telling anyone that they are flat-out wrong on anything.  

I am looking forward to several events this coming summer.  Maybe I will see you at one of them.  If not, good luck, train hard and do well.

Lamont


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## progressivetactics (Mar 26, 2003)

Well, I am new to this format of debate/discussion.  And I appreciate Paul J. hooking me up to this method of information gathering.  Thanks Paul.
I have noticed in this very long and lengthy thread that the possibility for world peace  is IMPOSSIBLE!  Arnis practioners just in the US can't get along!

Sorry. I think everyone was American in the last 40 or so posts I seen related to this.

I am relatively new to Modern Arnis, and was lucky enough to have Paul stop down to my school and introduce a bit of back ground to me.  He did explain some of the 'infighting' and problems through out.  Everyone here just confirmed it.

If we don't believe in change, if we don't work at change, if we don't try to change.   WE WONT CHANGE.

Everyone seems to have good intentions, good ideas, and respectful.  Lets keep going on that track, and get off the high horses, stop complaining about who isn't pulling the 'change machine' and try to do a better job at uniting the martial spirit.  Despite your instructor/affiliation and club.

Just my humble opinion...

Respects to Mr Dan Anderson.  I have your "american freestyle karate" book. A gift from my instructor.  Nice work!  It is about 15 years old (to me) and I still go back and read it!


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## bloodwood (Mar 26, 2003)

I also try to just state opinions rather than give advice because most people really don't want to be given advice. Most of the time it just rubs folks the wrong way. I post as I see things, however they are just my personal views on the state of Modern Arnis and the people who make up this art. Sometimes I rub people the wrong way and sometimes it's the other way around. One way or the other it keeps us all honest and gets the cards out on the table. I do not know Lamont other than from here on Martial Talk, but after his last post I do know more about him, his intentions and where he's coming from. If it works out I would like to attend the symposium. We'll see. 

I am much more likable in person.

I will say that most of the issues brought up here on Martial talk, whether personal, technical or organizational do get resolved in a fairly cordial manner. Maybe we're not that bad after all.


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## Dan Anderson (Mar 26, 2003)

> _Originally posted by bloodwood _
> *If it works out I would like to attend the symposium. We'll see.
> 
> I am much more likable in person.
> ...


Blood,
I'd love to see you there.  We actually will get along better as I think we have much more in common than not.  And no, we're nowhere near bad.  We do differ in opinons though, don't we.

Yours,
Dan Anderson

PS - last night's King Crimson concert was *killer!!!.*


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## Rich Parsons (Mar 27, 2003)

> _Originally posted by bloodwood _
> *
> I am much more likable in person.
> 
> I will say that most of the issues brought up here on Martial talk, whether personal, technical or organizational do get resolved in a fairly cordial manner. Maybe we're not that bad after all. *




Bloodwood,

Look me up at the Synposium  if you get there. I like to meet and to talk to new people and old friends.
:asian:


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## DoctorB (Mar 27, 2003)

> _Originally posted by norshadow1 _
> *I don't give advice, I make statements about what I believe to be true.  I have also withheld some statements because I know that they would inflame some people.  Sure, I like DocB, so what?
> I have been to camps and seminars that he has hosted and everyone of them was a success in terms of the instruction.  I also attended seminars that he taught.  He is an excellent teacher.  I have seen several of his students at the college over an extended period of time.  They developed into very strong and capable martial artists.  So the man has earned my respect.  Just because you might not know him (and I do not have any information in either direction) that is no reason why I should with hold my positive respct for him.  There are numerous people who expressed their liking of other instructors/leaders.  Have I commented on who others like?  NO!
> 
> Lamont *



Hello Lamont,

Thanks for all of your very kind remarks about my students, my teaching skills and the seminars that I have host, which you attended; I'm grining from ear to ear!

Now, I must also add that it is time to chill out!

First and foremost the Symposium **is not** about me!  I am the conduit to the event.  The Symposium is all about the PRESENTERS - the people who you and everyone else should be focused on - the people who have agreed to show us how they do Modern Arnis.

To everyone else:

I have said before in another post and regarding a different thread, there are three eras within Modern Arnis and although they overlap, they can be identified as 1. the art within your art era, 2. Filipino Arnis-Jujitsu era and 3. the tapi-tapi era.  

Professor taught for 25 years in the USA, Canda and Europe, therefore it is impossible for us to have a "single, correct, othodox" Modern Arnis standard.  Without a central HQ school, an established curriculum and codified promotional standards program written out by Professor, we must accept the fact that different people have different ideas about the art.  The purpose of the Symposium is to give ALL OF US, an opportunity to EXCHANGE ideas about this art!!!

The instructors who have agreed to share their understandings about Modern Arnis are as representative a group as we are going to get at this time:

Senior Master, Dan Anderson - Modern Arnis 80
Punong Guro, Tom Bolden - American Modern Arnis Associates
Guro, Bruce Chiu - Modern Arnis - Remy Presas Style
Senior Master, Bram Frank - Common Sense Self Defense/ SC 
Datu, Tim Hartman - World Modern Arnis Alliance
Datu, Dieter Knuttel - Modern Arnis Germany 
Guro/Sensei, Dawud Muhammad - Modern Arnis - R. Presas Style
Guro, David Ng - IMAF, Inc.
Senior Master, Rocky Paswik - Modern Arnis - Cuentada
Senior Master, J. Richard Roy - IMAF, Inc.
Guro/Sifu, Peter Vargas - American Modern Arnis Associates

ALL of the Senior Masters cover the first two eras totally and were at least still active with Professor into the third era.  
PG Bolden and Senior Master Paswik, take us back to the late 1970's.  Senior Master Roy and Datu Hartman, , were involved from the early and mid 1980s right through to Professor's retirement in 2000.  Senior Masters Frank and Anderson came on the scene in the early 1980's and were active in Modern Arnis, through 2000, although they were not always at seminars and camps in the middle to late 1990's.  Datu Knuttel, Guros, Chiu, Muhammad, Ng and Vargas got involved in Modern Arnis in the 1990's.  These time frames, as rough and generalized as they are should give us all a good indictaion about how different some approaches to Modern Arnis can be.   

There is no way in the world that we are going to see identical approaches to the art from these men.  Their experiences and martial arts backgrounds, preclude that from happening!!!  

In a couple of different private exchanges, I have questioned the assumptions of three different people who presumed that there would not be anything new presented at the Symposium.  But all three had to back away from that contention when they were forced to admit that they had not worked with everyone on the program.  If you have not worked with ALL of the listed instructors, how can you conclude that there is nothing new that will be offered?

I can guarentee everyone that if you have not trained with one or more of the instructors on the Symposim roster, then you HAVE NOT seen it all before.  So I am suggesting to everyone that this is going to be a very productive and exciting event.   In the meantime please focus on the "players" and not the "announcer"!

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.


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## Red Blade (Mar 27, 2003)

> _Originally posted by DoctorB _
> * The purpose of the Symposium is to give ALL OF US, an opportunity to EXCHANGE ideas about this art!!! *




*When did this become a syposium thread?*

:redeme:


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## DoctorB (Mar 27, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Red Blade _
> *When did this become a syposium thread?
> 
> :redeme: *



When I had to respond to a post involving my name and a couple of inferences that are tied to the Symposium!  If you don't like what I write don't read it.  I have tried not to mention the Symposium because of other remarks that you have posted, but there are times when that is not possible... this was one of them!

It is also consistant within the theme of this thread - community.

I have asked Lamont to back off and tone down some of his remarks, in spirit of community.  It would be wonderful to have you follow suite.

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.


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## Dan Anderson (Mar 27, 2003)

Personally, I think the Modern Arnis community would be far better off if they took it upon themselves to go the next King Crimson concert in their area!  How's that for being off the topic!
They were phenomenal!!!

Yours,
Dan Anderson

PS - Yes, I'm a little old to be going to rock concerts and watching people next to me lighting up doobies.  The trials I undergo for my favorite band.


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## Datu Tim Hartman (Mar 27, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Dan Anderson _
> *PS - Yes, I'm a little old to be going to rock concerts and watching people next to me lighting up doobies.  The trials I undergo for my favorite band. *



I assume you didn't inhale.:rofl:


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## Dan Anderson (Mar 27, 2003)

To be absolutely honest, I took off my Chad Dulin brand Modern Arnis hat (purchased at WMAA Camp 2002) and waved away the offending fumes.  The guy got the message and didn't light up the rest of the concert.

Dan


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## norshadow1 (Mar 29, 2003)

> _Originally posted by DoctorB _
> *Hello Lamont,
> 
> Thanks for all of your very kind remarks about my students, my teaching skills and the seminars that I have host, which you attended; I'm grining from ear to ear!
> ...



Good Morning Doctor B,

Message sent and message received!  Also read Red Blades' post and all I will 
say is that the idea that began this thread was about cooperation and communications.  The event that you are sponsoring is an active example of 
both.  


Lamont


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