# Great Aikido video



## Mider (Apr 21, 2022)




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## Flying Crane (Apr 21, 2022)

So, the fact that it says Rokas was almost enough for me to not watch it.  

At any rate, I don’t know if that was aikido or not.  It was joint locking 101, something common to many systems.  Was that guy an aikido guy?  Is that the context of his training?


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## Mider (Apr 21, 2022)

Flying Crane said:


> So, the fact that it says Rokas was almost enough for me to not watch it.
> 
> At any rate, I don’t know if that was aikido or not.  It was joint locking 101, something common to many systems.  Was that guy an aikido guy?  Is that the context of his training?


Huh, it’s Dan the Wolfman

yup...it’s in many systems but Dan the Wolfman trains in abs has trained Aikido, JKD, 52 Blocks, Systema, MMA, DBMA, Muay Thai, Wrestling 

but every art has different nuanced differences


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## Flying Crane (Apr 22, 2022)

Mider said:


> Huh, it’s Dan the Wolfman
> 
> yup...it’s in many systems but Dan the Wolfman trains in abs has trained Aikido, JKD, 52 Blocks, Systema, MMA, DBMA, Muay Thai, Wrestling
> 
> but every art has different nuanced differences


Ok, I guess I don’t know who Dan the Wolfman is.  Was he doing the joint locks from his aikido background, or was this presented more from how he trained in something else?  This is kinda academic and maybe it doesn’t matter in the end.  But would he claim it was aikido or something else?  Or does he not feel the distinction matters?  Maybe he said something in the video, I don’t remember…


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## wab25 (Apr 22, 2022)

Mider said:


>


Help me out here... What makes his version any different to the wrist locks shown in Japanese Jujitsu, Aikido, Karate and all the rest? What makes his more functional than the others? 

Besides his batman shirt...


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## Oily Dragon (Apr 22, 2022)

Dan the Wolfman is not Rokas, if by Rokas you mean this dude.

The Batman shirt though, does seem to be a common denominator.  And the man bun.


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## Oily Dragon (Apr 22, 2022)

Mider said:


> Huh, it’s Dan the Wolfman
> 
> yup...it’s in many systems but Dan the Wolfman trains in abs has trained Aikido, JKD, 52 Blocks, Systema, MMA, DBMA, Muay Thai, Wrestling
> 
> but every art has different nuanced differences



There's nothing sadder than a club bouncer with no fighting record.  It's all stories about guys pointing the finger!  And then the Seagal maneuver.

Dan fits that bill well, which is why he pumps Youtube with videos about aikido vs MMA, and guns.

Oh wait, is this the same guy?  Dan.  "Neo Blood Tournament"?  

Well then the only thing worse than no record, is a losing one where you end up leaving competition to make Youtube videos like this.


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## Oily Dragon (Apr 22, 2022)

This is such a bad way to start a Friday..


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## Mider (Apr 22, 2022)

Flying Crane said:


> Ok, I guess I don’t know who Dan the Wolfman is.  Was he doing the joint locks from his aikido background, or was this presented more from how he trained in something else?  This is kinda academic and maybe it doesn’t matter in the end.  But would he claim it was aikido or something else?  Or does he not feel the distinction matters?  Maybe he said something in the video, I don’t remember…


It does matter...every art should be praised for its differences and what it has to offer

hes an Ex Mma Fighter, stunt man, body guard


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## Mider (Apr 22, 2022)

wab25 said:


> Help me out here... What makes his version any different to the wrist locks shown in Japanese Jujitsu, Aikido, Karate and all the rest? What makes his more functional than the others?
> 
> Besides his batman shirt...


what’s your point? Does it look less functional? Are you an expert in these arts

if you are can you tell me the differences? I mean I’m sure he’d know as he trained with Gokor


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## Mider (Apr 22, 2022)

Oily Dragon said:


> There's nothing sadder than a club bouncer with no fighting record.  It's all stories about guys pointing the finger!  And then the Seagal maneuver.
> 
> Dan fits that bill well, which is why he pumps Youtube with videos about aikido vs MMA, and guns.
> 
> ...


Funny, he does have a fighting record...lol


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## Mider (Apr 22, 2022)

Oily Dragon said:


> There's nothing sadder than a club bouncer with no fighting record.  It's all stories about guys pointing the finger!  And then the Seagal maneuver.
> 
> Dan fits that bill well, which is why he pumps Youtube with videos about aikido vs MMA, and guns.
> 
> ...


Yeah...no record? He has a record in mma and he does have various rankings in several martial arts

come on man, grow up


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## Oily Dragon (Apr 22, 2022)

Mider said:


> Yeah...no record? He has a record in mma and he does have various rankings in several martial arts
> 
> come on man, grow up


I came for a "Great Aikido video", and got a compliant demo and a lot of bouncer speak.  Sorry, I think bouncers are pretty poor excuses for martial arts masters 99% of the time.  So as I went through his videos, I got nothing but annoyed.  He got a BJJ black belt after 20 years?  Grats, I guess.

I didn't know anything about this guy until about an hour or two ago.  His record didn't impress me at all, even after I found it, largely because of the junky quality of his videos.

He's been called "the Jason Blaha" of grappling.  I agree.  Nothing to see here regarding the art of Aikido, really.  You could have replaced him with Steven Seagal (or Jason Blaha) and the video would been of the same overall value.


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## wab25 (Apr 22, 2022)

Mider said:


> what’s your point? Does it look less functional? Are you an expert in these arts
> 
> if you are can you tell me the differences? I mean I’m sure he’d know as he trained with Gokor


Well... as long as you asked... there are a few things he could learn from TMA about that lock.

1. He never gets offline. He stands right in front of the guy while he is trying to grab the hand, and then transition to two on one for the lock. Fortunately, this is a static demo, and the other guy is not busy punching him in the face.

2. He does not enter in. He stays at the same range as when he started. Meaning the other guy can still continue to attack with his other three limbs. This is especially a problem, since he stayed on the centerline. The other problem with not entering in, is that most people pull back when you grab at them. That grab is actually pretty tough to get in a live, dynamic, fully resisting type of situation. Which means he can pull back and attack again... at the guy still on the centerline.

3. He does not take the other guys balance, before applying the lock. If you don't have their balance, they will either over power the lock or move their feet to release the lock. 

4. He never breaks the other guys structure, before applying the lock. Again, the other guy will over power the lock, use his feet to move and release the lock... or use his other hand to punch with.... after all, he still has his balance and structure and the guy is still right on the center line.

5. He wraps his fingers around and into the wrist. Thats the wrist he is trying to attack. Wrapping your hand around the joint you are attacking is actually helping the other guy by supporting the joint... like a brace.

6. He does the entire lock with his upper body arm strength, not with his core. He will be able to apply this to all the people he is bigger and stronger than and to none of the people who are stronger than him... or smart enough to move their feet.

7. As he completes the take down, he gives up his own balance and structure by leaning over. This makes it much easier for him to be pulled down or counter thrown. And as long as he brought up being situationally aware... bending over like he does, makes it much harder to see whats going on around you.

If you need more, I can certainly keep adding to this list....  

At the end of the day... he is doing the same type of static demo that most TMA folks do... only he is not demonstrating the most important points that should be over emphasized in such a demo. To be fair... most TMA folks are guilty of this as well. Which is why I was asking what made his demo or version any better...


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## drop bear (Apr 22, 2022)

wab25 said:


> Help me out here... What makes his version any different to the wrist locks shown in Japanese Jujitsu, Aikido, Karate and all the rest? What makes his more functional than the others?
> 
> Besides his batman shirt...



Dan is big guy


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## drop bear (Apr 22, 2022)

Mider said:


> what’s your point? Does it look less functional? Are you an expert in these arts
> 
> if you are can you tell me the differences? I mean I’m sure he’d know as he trained with Gokor



It is a very vanilla wrist lock. Where for example here is paul cale. (Another big guy) who has at least set up his wristie with a bunch of positional dominance.






Which is I think the key to wrist lock functionality. 

Especially if you ever want to train it on a partner twice.


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## Mider (Apr 22, 2022)

Oily Dragon said:


> I came for a "Great Aikido video", and got a compliant demo and a lot of bouncer speak.  Sorry, I think bouncers are pretty poor excuses for martial arts masters 99% of the time.  So as I went through his videos, I got nothing but annoyed.  He got a BJJ black belt after 20 years?  Grats, I guess.
> 
> I didn't know anything about this guy until about an hour or two ago.  His record didn't impress me at all, even after I found it, largely because of the junky quality of his videos.
> 
> He's been called "the Jason Blaha" of grappling.  I agree.  Nothing to see here regarding the art of Aikido, really.  You could have replaced him with Steven Seagal (or Jason Blaha) and the video would been of the same overall value.


Huh he was in n off so yes what’s your point, can you tell me what’s wrong with his technique


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## Mider (Apr 22, 2022)

wab25 said:


> Well... as long as you asked... there are a few things he could learn from TMA about that lock.
> 
> 1. He never gets offline. He stands right in front of the guy while he is trying to grab the hand, and then transition to two on one for the lock. Fortunately, this is a static demo, and the other guy is not busy punching him in the face.
> 
> ...


I mean I’m not an expert you can face book him n ask


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## Mider (Apr 22, 2022)

drop bear said:


> It is a very vanilla wrist lock. Where for example here is paul cale. (Another big guy) who has at least set up his wristie with a bunch of positional dominance.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you very cool


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Apr 22, 2022)

Mider said:


> I mean I’m not an expert you can face book him n ask


You asked him though about his issues with the issues with it, and he was responding. 

Genuine question, what was the purpose of posting this video?

If it was to generate discussion about the video, then why do you not want people to talk about it? If it was to show a good example of a wristlock, then what is the issue with people discussing ways it could be better?


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## wab25 (Apr 22, 2022)

Mider said:


> I mean I’m not an expert you can face book him n ask


You posted the video with the title "Great Aikido video." What makes this video "great?" I am asking you, because its your thread title and you picked this video... I didn't find anything much different than I see in any of the other aikido videos or TMA videos... Why did you pick this one?


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## Mider (Apr 22, 2022)

Monkey Turned Wolf said:


> You asked him though about his issues with the issues with it, and he was responding.
> 
> Genuine question, what was the purpose of posting this video?
> 
> If it was to generate discussion about the video, then why do you not want people to talk about it? If it was to show a good example of a wristlock, then what is the issue with people discussing ways it could be better?


I posted it as it’s an aikido video in the aikido section


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Apr 22, 2022)

Mider said:


> I posted it as it’s an aikido video in the aikido section


But what was the purpose?


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## Martial D (Apr 22, 2022)

On the one hand..the mechanics of that wristlock takedown are legit.

On the other hand...the thing about these types of videos is you get more from them by watching the uke. 

With that said the next time someone waggles their finger in my face..which would also be the first time? But..whatever..if that happens I'll grab his wrist and if he happens to go limp and not resist at all like uke did maybe I'll give it a try.


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## Oily Dragon (Apr 22, 2022)

Mider said:


> Huh he was in n off so yes what’s your point, can you tell me what’s wrong with his technique


It's not a video of effective chin na unless the other guy is doing something other than playing along.  So whether it's cast as a judo, aikido, Kung Fu, whatever video, it's only ho hum.

Don't get me wrong man, I love Aikido, and I have no gripes with this guy, other than his video is not really anything special.  He just has a habit of fire hosing YouTube with these sorts of flamboyant videos, which I put next to the "this is for pro wrestling" pile vs. "this is chin na for small joint manipulation against a resisting opponent" pile.

You'd think someone with a fight record would have no problem showing a decent short demo of him grip  grappling his student with aliveness.  That's why I'm disappointed with the "great" part, I like my Kung Fu grip videos with aliveness.

Instead, we got a lesson in the proper finger pointing range for pre-emptive bouncer attack.  Which is great advice if you're an aspiring door man I guess.


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## Oily Dragon (Apr 22, 2022)

Martial D said:


> On the one hand..the mechanics of that wristlock takedown are legit.
> 
> On the other hand...the thing about these types of videos is you get more from them by watching the uke.
> 
> With that said the next time someone waggles their finger in my face..which would also be the first time? But..whatever..if that happens I'll grab his wrist and if he happens to go limp and not resist at all like uke did maybe I'll give it a try.


You and I are on the same page.

Ok, you're an ex bouncer/knight/SEAL.

Ok, you know some wrist Fu.

Great, you've got full contact experience.  You're on fire dawg!

But don't do that thing where you try to validate a whole art (that doesn't need validation) by having your student gift you their wrist, and look downright defeated the moment your inner Glimmer Man comes out.


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## Chris Parker (Apr 23, 2022)

wab25 said:


> Help me out here... What makes his version any different to the wrist locks shown in Japanese Jujitsu, Aikido, Karate and all the rest? What makes his more functional than the others?
> 
> Besides his batman shirt...



What makes it different? A lot. What makes it more functional? It isn't. There are myriad issues with this, starting with the fact that, well, it's all pretty bad, and not demonstrative of anything other than Dan' ego.



Mider said:


> It does matter... every art should be praised for its differences and what it has to offer



But is this an example of that? Here's a clue... the answer is "no".



Mider said:


> hes an Ex Mma Fighter, stunt man, body guard



Meh... maybe he should have studied more?



Mider said:


> what’s your point?



I think his point was that the video is a sub-optimal example of a wrist lock done in a way that is completely devoid of any of the principles that would make it Aikido, or, indeed, separate it as anything particularly distinct from just "grab the wrist and turn".



Mider said:


> Does it look less functional?



Yep. And, to be clear, the way he's doing it is much closer to the way my arts approach this type of kansetsu waza than it is an Aikido method... so I can see if he's got the important points present. He doesn't.



Mider said:


> Are you an expert in these arts



Ooh, that'll lead you down a path you may not want to go if you ask me the same... 



Mider said:


> if you are can you tell me the differences?



Between this example and Aikido? Or between the various approaches @wab25  mentioned? Cause there's a fair few clarifications that would need to happen, especially in the case of the latter... such as which system of Japanese jujutsu... but, well, yeah. I could.



Mider said:


> I mean I’m sure he’d know as he trained with Gokor



In Aikido? As that is ostensibly the subject/context here?



Mider said:


> Huh he was in n off so yes what’s your point, can you tell me what’s wrong with his technique



Wab25 already gave you a lot of things that are wrong in the execution (which you had already seen before asking if he can tell you what's wrong with the technique...?), so I'll just focus on one thing. There is no Aikido in that video.

I mean, I can also discuss how his mechanics are off, he doesn't understand why that particular grip is used (his "hand slipping" just shows that he doesn't understand the actual hand positioning in Aikido's kotegaeshi, the one used here, with both thumbs on the back of the hand, is to help open the hand, and release a weapon, not anything like his comments), and more, but, most importantly, there is no Aikido in that video. At all.



Mider said:


> I mean I’m not an expert you can face book him n ask



Reading his comments on his videos, that would prove unenlightening.



Mider said:


> I posted it as it’s an aikido video in the aikido section



Except it's not an Aikido video, no matter what Dan chooses to call it. There's no aiki. There's muscular effort, tension, and a number of aspects that are antithetical to Aikido... but more importantly, a complete lack of aiki. Aiki happens when the momentum of an incoming attack is blended with and extended/redirected in order to unbalance and control the opponent. The "attacker" there is completely static, so there's no momentum to blend with, just overt force to grab. There's no redirection or unbalancing, and the mechanics are not an Aikido kotegaeshi (which involves securing the forearm at the base of the wrist with one hand, using the other to "fold" the hand over the wrist itself... not a high capture on the hand, and then "slipping" off over the top, as Dan demonstrates as the problem he has with the Aikido version... well, perhaps if he actually did the correct thing, he would see that's not an issue?).

So, what are the problems? It's someone who thinks that "wrist lock = Aikido", when that's the belief of an inexperienced beginner or someone without any understanding or clue about Aikido itself... someone who thinks superficial, broad, technical categories are what separates or defines a martial art. Aikido is not wrist locks. Wrist locks aren't Aikido. And these are not worthy of being called "Great Aikido" by a long shot... they aren't worthy of being called "Aikido"... I don't think I'd even call them worthy of being called "wrist locks" in anything other than the broadest of definitions. If anyone other than my absolute beginners did a lock like this, I'd be asking some questions...


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## jayoliver00 (Apr 26, 2022)

Oily Dragon said:


> It's not a video of effective chin na unless the other guy is doing something other than playing along.  So whether it's cast as a judo, aikido, Kung Fu, whatever video, it's only ho hum.
> 
> Don't get me wrong man, I love Aikido, and I have no gripes with this guy, other than his video is not really anything special.  He just has a habit of fire hosing YouTube with these sorts of flamboyant videos, which I put next to the "this is for pro wrestling" pile vs. "this is chin na for small joint manipulation against a resisting opponent" pile.
> 
> ...




He's been trying to get in on the Youtube racket by attacking the more popular (but smaller & weaker) Youtube MA guys such as Hard2Hit, Roka, etc. 

Roka was dumb enough to bite and give him a platform; he couldn't be more happier and went from disgusted at Roka to super nice. Dude's out to make a buck.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Apr 26, 2022)

Mider said:


> Does it look less functional?


It can be more functional if the following principles are added in.

1. Borrow his opponent's force - He can use a shoulder lock first. When his opponent resists, he can then borrow his opponent's resisting force, change his shoulder lock into a wrist lock.

2. Add in leg skill - When he applies the wrist lock, he can use his leg skill to "cut" his opponent's leg and takes his opponent down.

The locking skill is similar to the throwing skill. It's better to apply in pairs. Most of the time, the 1st technique won't work well. But the 2nd technique may work better (I'm pretty sure this principle is used in Aikido). Also the purpose of joint locking is to take your opponent down. You should use your leg to take your opponent's leg/legs off the ground (not sure this principle is used in Aikido or not).


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## Mider (Apr 30, 2022)

wab25 said:


> You posted the video with the title "Great Aikido video." What makes this video "great?" I am asking you, because its your thread title and you picked this video... I didn't find anything much different than I see in any of the other aikido videos or TMA videos... Why did you pick this one?


It’s great as he’s used it under pressure


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## Mider (Apr 30, 2022)

Chris Parker said:


> What makes it different? A lot. What makes it more functional? It isn't. There are myriad issues with this, starting with the fact that, well, it's all pretty bad, and not demonstrative of anything other than Dan' ego.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If you say so...I’ve seen him use it in sparring, sounds like we are just jumping on the let’s nit pick the video


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## drop bear (Apr 30, 2022)

Mider said:


> If you say so...I’ve seen him use it in sparring, sounds like we are just jumping on the let’s nit pick the video



Yeah. But he is a big dude. I jave seen untrained big guys use that technique.

I have a mate who benches 150kg he wrist locks you. You get wrist locked.

Compare that to say the Russian wrist snap that relies on creating an environment where the wrist throw will work. Rather than just manhandling an arm.






This is a more viable concept if you don't have the strength advantage.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Apr 30, 2022)

Does Aikido use leg skill in throwing?


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## Gerry Seymour (Apr 30, 2022)

Mider said:


> If you say so...I’ve seen him use it in sparring, sounds like we are just jumping on the let’s nit pick the video


There are a lot of bits in that video. And no aiki, by either of the definitions I know for it (blending and body mechanics).


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## Gerry Seymour (Apr 30, 2022)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> Does Aikido use leg skill in throwing?
> 
> View attachment 28388


Can you define “leg skill” for me?


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## Kung Fu Wang (Apr 30, 2022)

Gerry Seymour said:


> Can you define “leg skill” for me?


You use your leg to attack your opponent's leg to make him off balance.

Here is a leg skill - inner hook.


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## Gerry Seymour (May 1, 2022)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> You use your leg to attack your opponent's leg to make him off balance.
> 
> Here is a leg skill - inner hook.


Gotcha. I have never seen that approach in (Ueshiba’s) Aikido. NGA has them from our Judo side.


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## Chris Parker (May 19, 2022)

Mider said:


> If you say so...I’ve seen him use it in sparring, sounds like we are just jumping on the let’s nit pick the video



So... you put up a video, claiming it's a "great Aikido video", when questioned on it, you say "I'm not an expert", but then think that people offering supported critique are "nit-picking"? Hmm... 

But, to take your comment at it's face value, you've seen him use (this wrist lock) in sparring? And what, precisely, does that prove? Does it make it any more Aikido? Nope. Does it remove the issues with it? Nope. All it says is that he used in in a sparring match at least once... against who? In what context? These things matter.

Let's be clear here... using it in "sparring" without any other context means nothing. And "using it in sparring" doesn't magically make it Aikido, when there is no AIki present. It's a wrist lock/twist. It's pretty universal to all grappling methods and approaches, and even a poor one, coupled with overwhelming strength, luck, or a poor opponent can be pretty effective. A bad technique can work, and still be a bad technique.


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