# Ufc 47



## kenpo12 (Apr 5, 2004)

Did anyone here catch UFC 47?  What a great show.  Every fight was action packed.  In a way I'm almost bummed because they had so many great fights on this one but UFC 48 looks like it's going to pale in comparison.  The main event is going to be two over the hill fighters.


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## Toasty (Apr 5, 2004)

I have one word for the Ortiz - Liddel fight   

*FIX*

The worst example of a worked fight ever.  I will never purchase anything that has anything to do with the UFC ever again!

Rob


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## clapping_tiger (Apr 5, 2004)

I thought it was a great show. Not much on the ground, which lead to a nice number of KO's.  What made you think it was a fix? Liddell was throwing with bad intentions, and even though the first few of his final barrage of punches went off the arms of Oritz, once they started to connect through, he nailed him with like 4-5 solid shots to the head. Watch it in slow motion if you can. Not many people can withstand punnishiment like that. It may not have looked like much at first, but check it out agian. Look at Lawler's fight, he was taken out with just one solid lucky shot. If you look at it that way, but look at what built up to that moment, same holds true for the Ortiz-Liddell fight.


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## Toasty (Apr 5, 2004)

First of all let me explain that I am not new to the UFC or MMA. I have been a fan since UFC 1.
I have watched this event get more & more like big time wrestling.
As far as the Ortiz-Liddell fight, manufactured animosity is always detectable...these guys have been buddies to long. Those "punches" in round 1 looked like they were playing patty-cake. Not to mention they were both smiling in the begining seconds of the round! 
Granted, I'll give you that Tito took some shots in round 2 -but really, were they any worse then the ones he took from Ken Shamrock (or even 1/4 as hard)?, i say no. And Ken didnt even knock him down.
I say he blocked some hits then gave Chuck an opening & took a couple of hits, then dove for a paycheck.
Even the reaction on the faces of people in the crowd said "fix"...

later
Rob


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## kenpo12 (Apr 5, 2004)

Toasty said:
			
		

> First of all let me explain that I am not new to the UFC or MMA. I have been a fan since UFC 1.
> I have watched this event get more & more like big time wrestling.
> As far as the Ortiz-Liddell fight, manufactured animosity is always detectable...these guys have been buddies to long. Those "punches" in round 1 looked like they were playing patty-cake. Not to mention they were both smiling in the begining seconds of the round!
> Granted, I'll give you that Tito took some shots in round 2 -but really, were they any worse then the ones he took from Ken Shamrock (or even 1/4 as hard)?, i say no. And Ken didnt even knock him down.
> ...



You have got to be kidding me!  A fix? c'mon, Tito got rocked. If you want to talk about anything manufactured it was Ortiz holding the belt for as long as he did.  Ortiz is a good fighter but he's not a great fighter.  He's never really fought anyone that great until Randy Couture or Chuck Liddell.  Look at Tito's fight record.  He fought Vanderlei Silva before Silva got really good like he is now and he fought an old Ken Shamrock.  You cannot tell me Liddell's shots weren't the real deal, he was busting through Tito's guard and leaving Tito defenseless.


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## clapping_tiger (Apr 5, 2004)

I too have been a fan since the beginning, and I admit that there has been an increase in "Pro Wrestling" style entertainment in the UFC (Genki Sudo and Phil Baroni come to mind first), but that is what is going to sell those tickets and keep the sport alive. However, the thought of a fix (although possible) is highly unlikely. First off, what would Tito have to gain by letting Chuck win? Top ranked fighters in MMA (and remember the UFC is not one of the top paying organizations)are only making $500,000 per fight, and that would be for a win in a Championship bout or SuperFight, while the loser can expect to walk away with like around 300,000. For a loss, Tito probably made only (and this is only a figure I don't know what the numbers were for this event) $100,000. So how much would he have taken for the dive? another $100,000? HE still would have been better off winning, plus now he would have set himself back in the rankings, taking even longer to get another title shot, and lost many of his fans who think of him as unstoppable. Also, punches or kicks can be harder than they appear on TV. Another thing to think about is, assuming you have been hit hard before, at times you can get hit quite hard and take a punch or kick, then the following week be rocked by a punch half as hard. It is all depends on lots of variables ranging from the angle of impact to his head, to how hydrated he was. I don't quite think that MMA has made it that big (money wise or in popularity) to where the fighters are taking money on the side to lose. It was a legitimate lose for Tito and it severely impacted his career for the worse, it would have been too stupid of a move for him to take a dive.


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## clapping_tiger (Apr 5, 2004)

Also, Tito was bruised and bloody. Shamrock did not even leave a mark on Tito. Chuck may not be as defined as Shamrock but I am sure he hits just as hard if not harder. 

Here is an article from MMA Weekly on the fight.


> When did I know Chuck Liddell would beat Tito Ortiz? Wednesday night at 10pm. That is when I had a chance to take a sneak peak at Liddell's final training session before facing Tito Ortiz in the main event of UFC 47.
> 
> The Pit fight team was grappling with Liddell downstairs at the workout rooms in the Mandalay Bay and the scene was something that I have never seen in all the years I've covered the Iceman.
> 
> ...


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## Toasty (Apr 5, 2004)

While I agree with alot of your post, it still looked like a work to me... even my wife, when she saw the part of the first round said "what is this? a demo?"

It just didnt look like a "real" match to me. As far as bruises - my Ken Shamrock example holds up here too, Ken's face looked like hamburger when Tito was done with him, yet Tito didnt even land a real shot on Chuck...?! 
I just watched round 2 again & it sure looks like Tito got "knocked down" with a punch to the HAND, and it seemed as though they stopped the fight pretty darn quick.
Trust me, I do hope I am wrong but remember, the fighters paycheck is not where the money is  - the real money is at the sports book. And as long as there is betting, fights will be fixed.
Anyway, like I said I hope i am wrong (and in case you were wondering, no, I didn't lose any $$ on the fight LOL ).
This is turning into a horse flogging contest now, I wish you well in your training & maybe i'll watch UFC 48, but I wont be paying for it...

later
Rob


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## Kembudo-Kai Kempoka (Apr 5, 2004)

At least you guys caught it. I haven't watched an MMA fight in, literally, years.


Oh well.  Maybe some other time.

D,


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## legend29 (Apr 5, 2004)

To me Tito looked intimidated ! He didn't do much because he was afraid of seting himself up. I watched the ppv documentry on these two fighters and Tito even admitted that Chuck got the best of him 80% of the time when they were training. He blew it off as not being a real fight , but you know that was in his head. Also look at the end of the first round, the round house chuck threw to tito's head rocked him pretty good, and that was blocked !

I believe if it was to be fixed it would make more since to have it be a close draw, that could have went either way, or some type of controvesy. This would make a rematch a big draw. This was just too convincing of a fight for me to believe it was fixed. Just my two cents 

  Richie


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## ace (Apr 11, 2004)

It Was OK at Best I Liked The Genki Fight & Was Suprised To See
Nick Diaz Go Toe to Toe With Lawler The Looked Like it was Going to Be a Striker Vs Grapller Match Up But the Grapller KO ! The Striker & I called The Fight Wrong :idunno:  As For Tito Vs Chuck Being A Work No Way.

Tito Was out of His Element He Should Not Have Went For a
Stand Up Fight With Chuck He allowed Chuck to Get in His Head.
Franca Got The Shaft By The UFC & The Fans Diplayed That With BOooooooooo'Ssssssssssssssss.
Im Lookin Faward to seeing Ken Vs Kimo 2 opcorn: 
Pride Needs To Come Back To PPV


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## JDenz (Apr 13, 2004)

Thought it was one of the better recent shows.  No way CHuck Tito was a work.  Tito knew he couldn't take Chuck down so they ended up in a standing war that tito didn't have the tools to win.  The strikes that tito got beat with to Frank at the end didn't look that hard either but looks arn't everything.  Something can look weak as hell and still be strong and the opposite is true.  My leg kicks look and sound hard but they arn't that hard. lol


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