# I got a bone to pick here!



## RCastillo (May 6, 2002)

Some guy on the "Other Forum" said that Tracy Kenpo is not "TRUE KENPO???

Hey, I may only be a 10 year rookie in Kenpo(3rd Dan), and 47, But I didn't just get promoted yesterday.

Mr. Conatser told me once, "You don't know, what you know." Well,  thanks to Mr. Conatser again, I know now. And I'm growing feathers all the time(I'm still a fledgling to him) because he's opened my eyes. Don't even think about dissing my Kenpo! I sure won't disrespect yours!:2pistols:


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## Sigung86 (May 6, 2002)

Ricardo!!!!

What other forum?  Who said that?  It wasn't Wes Idol, Clyde T., Frank Trejo or one of them know-nothings was it?  Maybe we can pay Conatser enough to help hold them while we demonstrate true Kenpo on their foreheads!  :lol:

Give 'em a break Ricardo.  People who make stupid remarks are just stupid.  Morons are not worth getting in a tizzy about.  Now religion?  There's something I can sink my teeth into ... 

If you aren't a member of the First Church of the Immaculate Misconception and the Illuminated Presumptuous Assumption, then you ain't got much! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Take care, and ..

GIMME SLACK!!!

The Right Reverend BoB ... er ... ah ... So sorry...

Dan Farmer


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## RCastillo (May 6, 2002)

Ok, I'm alright now..............I got it out of my system:wah:


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## Sigung86 (May 6, 2002)

> _Originally posted by RCastillo _
> 
> *Ok, I'm alright now..............I got it out of my system:wah: *



Well Ricardo,

I seem to have either changed my mind, or lied... I'm not sure which at this point in time.  Go see what I posted!:rofl: 

Dan


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## RCastillo (May 6, 2002)

I saw it, and I'm motivated once again to enter the ring, BRING 

ME BILLY LEAR, NOW!!!!!!!!!!:boxing: THAT'LL BE ONE LESS 

STUDENT FOR MR. HAWKINS!

p.s. I'm setting up my trainning camp in Scottsdale, AZ in DC's back yard!


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## Roland (May 6, 2002)

And do not forget the ones who just do not know better.

Not that it is any excuse to ever put anyone, or their 'style' down.
Glad to hear you are able to look past it Ricardo, just keep doing what you are doing.

It does not matter what you train, as long as you keep learning, improving yourself. To do that you must always keep and open mind. It is a very personal journey for us all, no one can dictate what 'YOU' should be doing. Anyone who tries has already closed themseleves off, and has stoped learing, which means they will be unable to teach.
 I say you are one of the lucky ones who does keep his mind open. The ones who do not, lose out.
Plain and simple is how I see it!


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## tonbo (May 7, 2002)

I just had an interesting thought.  (Well, interesting to *me*, anyway).

I think the only person that could truly be said to have studied the REAL Ed Parker's Kenpo Karate was.......SGM Ed Parker.  After that, people could study and learn some of the ways he moved, some of the techniques he came up with, and so on, but he was the only one who was actually doing the real thing.  

Can anyone say that "X Style of Kenpo is not TRUE Kenpo"?  By which measuring stick?  Is that like saying that since most boxers today don't fight like Jack Dempsey, they don't do TRUE boxing?  

Remember that, when pure knuckles meet pure flesh, that is pure karate...

Now, I think that some schools/teachers/styles/arts teach more concepts/skills/philosophies, etc.  But that is the nature of the beast.  However, if one "style" of Kenpo, or Kung Fu, or so on disses another, then it is only a show of ignorance.

*shrug*.  Let 'em think what they want.  It costs nothing.  It just shows that they have a different opinion.  They are welcome to their misconceptions, just like anyone else...

And no, I don't personally study Tracy Kenpo.  But I don't see any point in knocking it, either.  I ain't smart enough to know anything about it.....never seen what they got, so to speak.  But, I have seen them at tournaments, and it looks like Kenpo to *me*....

Peace--


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## Michael Billings (May 7, 2002)

Just shrug it off.  My 1st Black was in a Tracy style.  Yes I moved to Ed Parker's Kenpo in 1985 or 86, and they are different.  But that does not mean that what you do does not work, not does it devalue the belt I earned in what we called Chinese Kenpo (All Tracy Techniques w/ the numbered forms plus Tiger & Crane, Book Set, Spears and Swords.)  

I loved doing it while I was doing it, learned a lot, then moved to, while not a new system, it was a different way of moving that the Tracy techniques were just not designed for.  Believe me, we tried to integrate the way of moving with the older techniques and it worked for some, but not for others, plus some of the principles, concepts and theories just did not apply, ie point of origin, economy of motion, and outer rim theory - to be specific.

Also, as you advance in the Tracy system, it appears like the techniques get more and more similar, with just the names being changed, especially at the Brown belt levels.  Multiple attackers, weapons, and combination attack techniques resemble each other closly if not exactly.

Mr. Conatser came from the same place I did.  He just got to both places a little sooner than me.  He speaks truely when he says "you do not know what you do not know" ...  I know, cause I have been there.  Don't take this as disparaging.  He can defend himself - but this is more a statement that it is about how you move, than what you do.  It has to do with Mr. Parker in the 80's glancing at someone and knowing what level they were by the way they moved.  It took a certainl level of maturity in the WAY you MOVED, Not in WHAT YOU DID, to have him catagorize you in a few techniques.  This does not mean this was the only criteria for promotions (material, time in grade, politiacal, etc?)  

I just did not want you to discount what you know, but realize it's worth and value.  There is also more out there that is different.  Some say "more sophisticated", but that is something you would have to judge for yourself.  Go visit Mr. Contaser some day.  He can and will literally rock your world when it comes to principles, concepts, and theories of Kenpo as Mr. Parker was teaching them. Remember, he travelled all over with our SGM and saw first hand what was taught to who and how.  Now if he starts talking too much or too fast, just tell him to respectfully and politely stifle himself.  It can get overwhelming or intimidating. But I garantee you will walk away with more than you came to the table with.  

"Remember all those who came before" are part of who you are now (I credit this sentiment to Sigung LaBounty [belt to forehead, sir].)

Yours in Kenpo (both kinds)
-Michael Billings
United Kenpo Systems 
(Yes, Billy Lear's Association, and he can also defend himself, I am not trying to do that, but give you a pespective on why he may have implied that.  Watch out Billy, people in your association came up from somewhere also - Respectfully -MB)


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## Goldendragon7 (May 7, 2002)

> _Originally posted by RCastillo _*Some guy on the "Other Forum" said that Tracy Kenpo is not "TRUE KENPO???  Mr. Conatser told me once, "You don't know, what you know." Well,  thanks to Mr. Conatser again, I know now. And I'm growing feathers all the time(I'm still a fledgling to him) because he's opened my eyes. Don't even think about dissing my Kenpo! I sure won't disrespect yours!:2pistols: *



Lol, well close Ricardo...... what I really said was..."You don't know what you DON'T know?  Which means that you only know what you know not what you "don't" know.  Thus the need to continue to study and open you eyes to what the real picture is and possibly not just a remote piece.

Who ever this is that  made that statement to you ..... Tell him/her to contact me.  LOL.  I'll set them straight.  

Your Kenpo is as valid as mine or anyone else's!  Now, that being said...... I may "KNOW" a little more than you "about" Kenpo but it has "nothing"! .... NOTHING!!! to do with being TRUE Kenpo!!

So just ignore such limited or uneducated statements, which probably come from a newbie that  only knows what he or she knows at this time and chose to voice it (Not what we KNOW)!   LOL

Some of them feathers are gettin Bigger!!!


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## Michael Billings (May 7, 2002)

Wasn't it 2nd just yesterday?  OK, so I did not know about your 6th, at least I noticed the MartialTalk Belt.  Congrats & keep on pounding those keys.

-MB


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## Goldendragon7 (May 7, 2002)

I'm going for Senior Grand Philosopher!  :asian: 














:rofl:


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## RCastillo (May 7, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Goldendragon7 _
> 
> *I'm going for Senior Grand Philosopher!  :asian:
> 
> ...




Oh yeah? Well, did you know that Dennis Conatser is a "Closet TKD-ist


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## Goldendragon7 (May 7, 2002)

OHaa ........ Oh............. YOU PROMISED!!!!!!!!!!! 

:angry:


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## Seig (May 8, 2002)

Then can I be, Supreme High Grand Pooh Bah?


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## Goldendragon7 (May 8, 2002)

Possibly........ the Lord High Mocus!

:asian:


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## Seig (May 8, 2002)

Thanks, now I have to wait til i get home to grab a dictionary and look up Mocus


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## Goldendragon7 (May 8, 2002)

:rofl: 

Good thing I didn't say Grand High Scribe!

:asian:


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## Seig (May 8, 2002)

I know what that means.  I am not high and as a secretary, I look lousy in skirt.  Now a kilt is a horse of a different color.


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## Turner (May 8, 2002)

Since mocus is not in my vocabulary and since I know everything; logic dictates that its gotta be a made-up word. :lol:


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## WilliamTLear (May 8, 2002)

*I NEVER SAID THAT TRACY KENPO WAS ILLEGITIMATE!!! RICARDO YOU NEED TO APOLOGIZE!!! AND I AM SERIOUS!!!* 

I have and never will put down any Martial Art, or system... I understand that Ricardo is trying to Joke around, but the Joking is over!

Mr. Billings,

I came over to Kenpo from elsewhere too, and although I have a fair amount of pride in what I do these days, I am not the type of guy that slanders people and their passions. Ricardo is someone that I correspond with on A.O.L. Instant Messenger, and occasionally he and I get to slinging insults back and forth (i.e. the Gou Ronin/Ricardo Coalition vs. the world type of thing), but this comment that he put in my mouth was *NOT* spoken, or written by me. It is a joke that has gone too far, and quite frankly has made me very angry. I never said that Tracy Kenpo isn't REAL Kenpo.

Thank You,
Billy Lear
UNITED Kenpo Systems
www.geocities.com/williamtlear


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## Goldendragon7 (May 8, 2002)

Billy....... take a valium..... or two.......  all in good fun....  don't be too touchy here...... I'm sure Ricardo is just teasing.....  call him in person and iron it out...... don't blow your top..  You guys are too much fun to be all ugly....... cool off and I'll talk to Ricardo.....

Peace.......!! Damn it.  Don't make me call Farmer in on this.......:rofl: 

:asian:


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## Sigung86 (May 8, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Goldendragon7 _
> 
> *Peace.......!! Damn it.  Don't make me call Farmer in on this.......:rofl:
> 
> :asian: *



What's the Gosh-dang deal here!???  Getting so a guy can't even take a nap anymore!!!!

If you guys are gonna fight, take it out in the back yard!
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: 

Dan


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## RCastillo (May 8, 2002)

> _Originally posted by WilliamTLear _
> 
> *I NEVER SAID THAT TRACY KENPO WAS ILLEGITIMATE!!! RICARDO YOU NEED TO APOLOGIZE!!! AND I AM SERIOUS!!!
> 
> ...



First of all,

1. I didn't know if it was you! That's not the name of the poster, so how am I to know if people do not identify themselves?

2. My comment was not said in anger.

3. I would think that you know that I'm always goofing off anyway, even if it was you.

4. But I'm not so old, or expereinced so that I'm afraid to apologize. If that's what you desire, then I apologize. My ego isn't bruised by taking that extra step. That's the nice thing about being older, no sweat.

:asian:


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## RCastillo (May 8, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Goldendragon7 _
> 
> *Billy....... take a valium..... or two.......  all in good fun....  don't be too touchy here...... I'm sure Ricardo is just teasing.....  call him in person and iron it out...... don't blow your top..  You guys are too much fun to be all ugly....... cool off and I'll talk to Ricardo.....
> 
> ...



Hey, who you calling ugly?:soapbox:


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## ikenpo (May 8, 2002)

Hey,

What did I miss? Billy talking bad about other Kenpo systems again...









(now that was a joke) 


jb


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## RCastillo (May 8, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Sigung86 _
> 
> *
> 
> ...



I don't do well in the back yard with FIRE ANTS!


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## WilliamTLear (May 8, 2002)

> _Originally posted by RCastillo_
> I don't do well in the back yard with FIRE ANTS!



We've gotta pour some of those fire-ants down you pants... Now that would be funny!!! :flame: 



> _Originally posted by Michael Billings_
> (Yes, Billy Lear's Association, and he can also defend himself, I am not trying to do that, but give you a pespective on why he may have implied that. Watch out Billy, people in your association came up from somewhere also - Respectfully -MB)



I was under the impression that people were really pissed off at me. Especially after reading posts that contained messages like this. If it was a joke... I'm cool with that, but it didn't look like a joke to me when I started reading this string for the first time last night. I thought everyone genuinely believed that I said that and were gearing up for WAR.
:soapbox:



> _Originally posted by RCastillo_
> First of all,
> 
> 1. I didn't know if it was you! That's not the name of the poster, so how am I to know if people do not identify themselves?
> ...



1. I sign my name to ALL OF MY POSTS... even the ones that I slam you on... I want you to know who did it. I take pride in my work!
:lol: 

2. I'm not crazy... I've just been in a bad mood for 28 years! 
:moon: 

3. Goofing off is kewel... Are you really gunna conduct a training camp in Dennis Conatser's back yard dedicated to my demise? Gee... I didn't know you cared. I feel special!!! 
:ladysman:

4. Thanks for the apology. By the way... your diaper is sagging!  You might wanna check into those Ultra-Absorbent Depends! 
:rofl:

Laughing,
Billy Lear 
United Kenpo Systems
www.geocities.com/williamtlear


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## Kirk (May 8, 2002)

> _Originally posted by WilliamTLear _
> 
> *
> 
> ...




You forgot:
5.  Tracy Kenpo isn't REAL Kenpo!

:rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  

Let me just say right here and right now that I'm ONLY KIDDING!!!!!!! 

ONLY KIDDING!!!!!!! 

ONLY KIDDING!!!!!!! 

ONLY KIDDING!!!!!!! 

ONLY KIDDING!!!!!!! 

ONLY KIDDING!!!!!!! 

ONLY KIDDING!!!!!!! 

ONLY KIDDING!!!!!!!


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## Seig (May 8, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Turner _
> 
> *Since mocus is not in my vocabulary and since I know everything; logic dictates that its gotta be a made-up word. :lol: *


It's not in Webster's New World Dictionary either, so I agree with you.


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## Michael Billings (May 8, 2002)

I was in Huntsville all day for a seminar ... you know, criminal justice stuff.  

Billy, as I said in my email SORRY ABOUT THAT!!!!! I was not addressing it primarily to you, but to who was blowing off some steam.  I am sorry for any misunderstanding.  In rereading my post, I could see my remarks being taken more seriously than I intended.  Although not made in jest, they could hurt or upset someone. I know this only because I have done it ... again with you, and it has been done to me, intentionally or unintentionally.

My apologies if I ruffled yo' feathers.  I also wanted to use it as a forum to say, "hey, there is lots more out there" lets don't get too territorial about what is right and wrong.  Maybe I took the person who started the thread too seriously.  Once again, I did not intend to "reprimand" or come across as an a#*hole (which I can be, but have tried real hard to grow out of.)

Not my place to judge, least of all what someone can write on a forum.  Bear with me, give me a little more time on this forum thing, and I will try to get better at it.

Respectfully,
Michael B.
United Kenpo Systems-Texas


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## ikenpo (May 8, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Michael Billings _
> 
> *I was in Huntsville all day for a seminar ... you know, criminal justice stuff.
> 
> ...



Let me know next time you'll be so close to Houston I may be able to come up and meet ya for lunch. 

You know how e-mail can be misinterpreted. It's just not the same with no facial expressions and vocal inflection. The great thing is you can always go back and say "oops" and you can mend fences and rebuild bridges with words that would otherwise never be uttered...

:asian: 

jason bugg
Houston, Tx


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## RCastillo (May 8, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Michael Billings _
> 
> *I was in Huntsville all day for a seminar ... you know, criminal justice stuff.
> 
> ...



Mr. Billings, 

IMHO, you came off good, I didn't see anything bad you said.You responded with a good heart, and nothing more because I didn't see any personal attacks. Those who know me(Which ain't many), know that while I'm serious about Kenpo, and like to learn/discuss, I don't get serious about fighting, discussing who's right/wrong, whatever. I just like to have fun, and interact with people.

So as Bruec Lee was told in "Enter The Dragon", by the old man, "And now you know the truth.":asian:


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## WilliamTLear (May 9, 2002)

Thank you Mr. Billings... I'm not angry anymore... I had the chance to srot things out today, and it appears that a few of us got our wires crossed when reading Ricardo's posts earlier...

When he said "Bring Me BILLY LEAR"... after writing his original post (about someone slamming him for being a Tracy Kenpoist) it looked as though he was pointing the finger of blame at me... I now know that this was not his intention, and I apologize for my part in this confusion... Ricardo, I'm sorry too.

Take Care,
Billy Lear
United Kenpo Systems 
:asian:


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## Turner (May 9, 2002)

> It's not in Webster's New World Dictionary either, so I agree with you.



Of course its not in the dictionary. The moment I said that it wasn't a 'real' word the whole universe shifted just a little hair and it disappeared from existance because everything has to come into line with what I say... 'Cause I know everything.

Its good you agree with me. I wouldn't mind it if you didn't because I have no problem with people being wrong. Not everyone can be like me and know everything.


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## ikenpo (May 9, 2002)

> _Originally posted by WilliamTLear _
> 
> *... Ricardo, I'm sorry too.
> *







I know I said all that stuff about saying oops and all that, but....



Is this the part where you guys tounge kiss and make up or what?!?!:rofl:


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## Seig (May 9, 2002)

> _Originally posted by jbkenpo _
> 
> *
> 
> ...


YUCK:barf:


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## Sigung86 (May 9, 2002)

Tongue kiss???  You guys are scarin' me!  Startin' to act like Special Operations guys or sumthin'!:uhoh: 

Dan


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## Goldendragon7 (May 9, 2002)




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## Michael Billings (May 9, 2002)

Yall are all VERY DISTURBED.  
-MB


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## Goldendragon7 (May 9, 2002)

He's a fellow Texan.......  what do  we know?..............................
:rofl:


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## Seig (May 10, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Michael Billings _
> 
> *Yall are all VERY DISTURBED.
> -MB *


Sung from West Side Story " We're disturbed, we're disturbed, we're mentally disturbed...."


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## WilliamTLear (May 10, 2002)

My @$$ is exit only!!! They are the disturbed ones!!!

Laughing,
Billy Lear
United Kenpo Systems


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## Seig (May 10, 2002)

> _Originally posted by WilliamTLear _
> 
> *My @$$ is exit only!!!
> 
> ...


Wanna buy a mud flap?:rofl:


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## Goldendragon7 (May 12, 2002)

No more on this line please.......


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## Seig (May 14, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Goldendragon7 _
> 
> *No more on this line please....... *


I've been trying to resist for three days.......
OK GD, no more on this line...New Line, forms to the rear....:roflmao:


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## WilliamTLear (May 14, 2002)

As long as it has the silver silluette of the naked girl on it... I've always wanted one of those...  

Laughing,
Billy Lear
United Kenpo Systems


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