# Good and Bad Taiji



## East Winds (Mar 29, 2008)

In another thread it was suggested that there was some very good and some very bad taiji available on YouTube. Here is a clip that made me smile. 

Damn- I knew there was something wrong with my Brush and Push movement:shrug:






Very best wishes


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## Xue Sheng (Mar 29, 2008)

:xtrmshock aaaa... uuuum

I... don't know what to say.. aaa nice tye chee


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## ggg214 (Mar 30, 2008)

what a soft movement~


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## pete (Mar 30, 2008)

i've got no horse in this race, other than an opinion of a more sporting way to provide negative opinion of video clips: how 'bout a video response of YOU doing something~ 

too many folks these days googling and you-tubing for video's to post in a negative light, while protecting themselves behind only what their little fingers type and a screen name.

pete


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## East Winds (Mar 30, 2008)

pete,

Thanks for your usual constructive input to this discussion. People who post on YouTube can expect comments on their performance (good or bad). I have no desire to post anything on such forums. Unlike you, my identity and qualifications in Taiji are easy to find. I do not protect myself behind what I type or on a screen name.  I seem to recall  you being asked  once or twice  about your  knowledge and style of taiji, only to be met with the your usual stunning silence. Would you care to enlighten us now?

Very best wishes


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## pete (Mar 30, 2008)

well ya know 'east winds', clips on you tube, etc, get placed there for various reasons, and by various sources.  sometimes they are purposefully placed by the person in the clip for sharing, sometimes by a third party.  

i just happen to see A LOT of disrespect on these types of boards, where a poster would happen across a clip, make their own judgement, and ridicule the individual. on another board unrelated to this posting, but coincidentally timed within the same week, another anonymous keyboard cowboy posted a link to a clip of a damn good martial artist, maybe a few years past his prime, and basically mocked him for his apparent physical limitations. Why should one try to lengthen their line by trying to shorten anothers?

you and your buddy, Torquemada, can assume what you want about me, and make your public demands for my resume, but why should i respond to either of you?  why should i have to explain myself to satisfy your curioisity?  especially when you are not nice or well mannered about it...

ya know, i really think one of the problems with many martial arts, including tai chi chuan, is the level of pompousness and self-serving righteousness amoung those trying to make IT as well as THEMSELVES, more than it really is.  Get back to basics, man. People are doing their own thing, doesn't have to be your bag, just let it be.  People grow, look for more, and if you can help... lend a hand. But don't wage a Crusade to SAVE THE ART FROM ITSELF. Its lasted this long, it will continue longer, not by you picking and pruning the 'bad' from the 'good', but through having the cream rise to the top organically, and by there being a place for EVERYBODY to find their own way through their own practice.

please do your homework.  if you can find clips on you tube, you can google my name, location, and tai chi and find me very easily. if you, or anybody for that matter is nice about it, email me, i'll discuss and elaborate, maybe even become friends.

in closing, seems somewhere along the path you forgot that what you learn about yourself is knowledge, but learning about yourself is enlightenment. so sorry, can't help you out there, 'that path was meant for your steps alone'...

Very Best Wishes, or Bury West Fishes... however you want it,
Pete.


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## oxy (Mar 31, 2008)

All this talk about bravery and the subsequent displays of false humility, avoiding the issue and "I don't have to because you don't" ...

I would like to join in this petty squabble by pointing out that I actually do have a video of myself out there :boing2: . It's quite bad compared to what I've learnt since then but let it never be said that age makes one mature.


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## bigfootsquatch (Mar 31, 2008)

Looks a variation of YMAA Tai Chi...I get overwhelmed trying to keep up with all the different variations sometimes :erg:. I guess it is best just to shut up and practice and quit worrying about it!


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## Xue Sheng (Mar 31, 2008)

bigfootsquatch said:


> Looks a variation of YMAA Tai Chi...I get overwhelmed trying to keep up with all the different variations sometimes :erg:. I guess it is best just to shut up and practice and quit worrying about it!


 
Actually, you are correct and I think I shall follow your lead


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## Quotheraving (Mar 31, 2008)

I especially liked the t'ai chi-cken style head bob he did there, you don't see that in your average demonstration... colour me impressed.


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## Quotheraving (Mar 31, 2008)

pete said:


> I just happen to see A LOT of disrespect on these types of boards, where a poster would happen across a clip, make their own judgement, and ridicule the individual. on another board unrelated to this posting, but coincidentally timed within the same week, another anonymous keyboard cowboy posted a link to a clip of a damn good martial artist, maybe a few years past his prime, and basically mocked him for his apparent physical limitations. Why should one try to lengthen their line by trying to shorten anothers?



I on the other hand have seen many clips posted here that were brought here specifically to share good examples of T'ai Chi with others who are interested in the art, this seems to outweigh the other kind.

While it is easy to mock another and feel exalted oneself, it's also human nature to share what you consider good, what makes you smile, and god forbid, even what makes you laugh aloud.



> you and your buddy, Torquemada, can assume what you want about me, and make your public demands for my resume, but why should i respond to either of you?  why should i have to explain myself to satisfy your curioisity?  especially when you are not nice or well mannered about it...



Seriously mate calm down, no need to be so defensive .... now have you had any dealings with Satan hmm


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## East Winds (Mar 31, 2008)

_*" especially liked the t'ai chi-cken style head bob he did there, you don't see that in your average demonstration... colour me impressed"*_ 


Yeh. If you miss him with the palm strike, you can always catch him with the head butt!!! 		 	 		 		 		 		 		 		 		 		 		 	 		 			 			 			 				:rofl:



Very best wishes


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## Quotheraving (Apr 3, 2008)

Here's a funny little clip... the text is priceless "Greet Jackie Gleeson... windmill arms" lol


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## Quotheraving (Apr 3, 2008)

Oh and while I'm at it, what do you make of this?? I can't decide if it's really good or what... some is obviously suggestion, but the guy really does seem to have empty power.

Anyways here you go:


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## ggg214 (Apr 5, 2008)

Quotheraving said:


> Oh and while I'm at it, what do you make of this?? I can't decide if it's really good or what... some is obviously suggestion, but the guy really does seem to have empty power.
> 
> Anyways here you go:


 
do they also pratise Wing Chun at the same time?
and it contains many qin na skills as well.
but we should not decide it good or bad by just watching the video.
go and check it! push hand is a good way to ask them what they are learning. i think you will find out more info.


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## East Winds (Apr 5, 2008)

I think this is an excellent example of finding your opponent's centre and then using it. Once you have his centre, moving him in any direction is as easy as it looks here. 

Very best wishes


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## marlon (Apr 6, 2008)

East Winds said:


> I think this is an excellent example of finding your opponent's centre and then using it. Once you have his centre, moving him in any direction is as easy as it looks here.
> 
> Very best wishes


 
EW is this a real fighting priciple of Taiji?  We use it in kempo however, with all the banter i am not sure if this is a real comment or not.  Could you share any other taiji fighting principles?

Respectfully,
Marlon


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## East Winds (Apr 6, 2008)

marlon,

Yes, absolutely a Taiji priciple. Finding your opponents centre needs to be developed by trainingTing Jin (Listening/sensing) energy. This is also one of the central pillars of push hands training (or at least should be!!!!). It is the key to not using strength in Taiji applications. I did not know it was also used in Kempo. That is interesting.

Very best wishes (as always).


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## Formosa Neijia (Apr 6, 2008)

East Winds said:


> In another thread it was suggested that there was some very good and some very bad taiji available on YouTube. Here is a clip that made me smile.
> 
> Damn- I knew there was something wrong with my Brush and Push movement:shrug:
> 
> ...



I read this teacher's book: Taji Connections. I thought it was rather good. He doesn't practice a form related to YMAA, they simply published his material.

About his brush knee there, I may be wrong but i think the shaking and awkwardness was a relaxation method he recommended in the book. Sort of a shake-the-kinks-out kind of thing. I may be wrong though. But he advocated a pretty standard Yang style in the book.


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## East Winds (Apr 6, 2008)

Formosa Neijia,

Thanks for that. I can accept that, (don't agree with his methods) but if that is what it was - fine!! He would have been better emphasizing Yang Cheng-fu's 10 essences though. 

Very best wishes


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## Formosa Neijia (Apr 7, 2008)

East Winds said:


> Formosa Neijia,
> 
> Thanks for that. I can accept that, (don't agree with his methods) but if that is what it was - fine!! He would have been better emphasizing Yang Cheng-fu's 10 essences though.
> 
> Very best wishes



Got it. On page 132 of Tai Chi Connections, he mentions shaking occasionally in a posture to check his root and looseness. He's not saying to always do your form like that, though.

His other advice seems congruent to YCF's 10 essences. In fact, most of the book seems to be about clearing up people's problems so they can have those essences.

The book is quite good actually.  It's a shame it isn't more talked about. He clears up a lot of issues that most people have.


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## pete (Apr 7, 2008)

Thank you Formosa Neijia for providing some level of understanding to the intent of the clip.  Unfortunately, too often videos of 'internal' arts are viewed for their 'performance' value and evaluated based on what the eye sees (or perhaps what the mind of the viewer wants to see). Especially if the viewer's intent is to grade videos; unfortunately you-tube with its little stars kinda encourages this.

In retrospect, I did come onto this thread a little strong, and maybe confrontational, and for that i do apologize.  However, point remains that tai chi is an internal art, and there are different strokes for different folks. Rather than good vs bad on the basis of a clip, i'd prefer to just let them be, and discuss constructively, rather than making fun of what may not be understood. There may be a lesson hiding in there that one can apply to his own practice.

For instance, I was able to go back with my students this weekend and teach the 'head butt' application that exists within the style we practice. Nothing like the clip, but there was a seed planted somewhere...

pete.


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## marlon (Apr 9, 2008)

East Winds said:


> marlon,
> 
> Yes, absolutely a Taiji priciple. Finding your opponents centre needs to be developed by trainingTing Jin (Listening/sensing) energy. This is also one of the central pillars of push hands training (or at least should be!!!!). It is the key to not using strength in Taiji applications. I did not know it was also used in Kempo. That is interesting.
> 
> Very best wishes (as always).


 
East winds,
in kempo it is taught to use minimal strength in your techniques because the assumption is that your attacker will be bigger, stronger and / or faster than you.  However, my exposure to different martial artists over the years and especially taiji has lead me to recognize that my first kempo teacher's teachers were studying a some yang taiji and possibley CMC.  Based on the principles she emphasized over and over again that others do not and, on certain postures in our techniques...and that i have see my second kempo instructors teacher doing the 108 form although he does not talk about it i cannot imagine the type of schizophrenia entailed in learning such prinicples from taiji and not having influence ones teaching.  

Respectfully,
Marlon
still practicing my 108 yang form and loving it...who knows if i am improving in taiji...but my kempo sure is!!!


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## Quotheraving (Apr 10, 2008)

Formosa Neijia said:


> Got it. On page 132 of Tai Chi Connections, he mentions shaking occasionally in a posture to check his root and looseness. He's not saying to always do your form like that, though.
> 
> His other advice seems congruent to YCF's 10 essences. In fact, most of the book seems to be about clearing up people's problems so they can have those essences.
> 
> The book is quite good actually.  It's a shame it isn't more talked about. He clears up a lot of issues that most people have.



See and there was me thinking that he was doing for T'ai chi what Arnold Rimmer did for the salute :duh:


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## Formosa Neijia (Apr 10, 2008)

Quotheraving said:


> See and there was me thinking that he was doing for T'ai chi what Arnold Rimmer did for the salute :duh:




Yeah well that's understandable too. The clip likely was taken at random from the DVD so it didn't show anything in context. Ironic since the guy thought he was helping people toward a more traditional and conservative Yang style. I say that because he mentions being a traditionalist many times.


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## mograph (Apr 14, 2008)

I think the words to keep in mind here are "out of context". 

I have two of his books as well, and like his methods of finding connections and alignment.


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## grydth (Apr 15, 2008)

East Winds said:


> pete,
> 
> Thanks for your usual constructive input to this discussion. People who post on YouTube can expect comments on their performance (good or bad). I have no desire to post anything on such forums. Unlike you, my identity and qualifications in Taiji are easy to find. I do not protect myself behind what I type or on a screen name.  I seem to recall  you being asked  once or twice  about your  knowledge and style of taiji, only to be met with the your usual stunning silence. Would you care to enlighten us now?
> 
> Very best wishes



I agree with you compltely on the substance of this matter - but pete does give a website on his bagua on Long Island invite thread. It is a well put together and informative site, and his school seems to be a place offering quality and varied instruction. I would not question his qualifications after what I saw there - you should look at it.

I have no doubt pete and donna could teach valuable things, especially as my experience from kempo to Tai Chi appears at least generally similar in nature to theirs. But my dealings with him here are the same as yours and "Torquemada's"..... I wouldn't ask this guy for directions to the bus station. Too bad.


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