# UFC 167 - First Female Maincard Fight



## Mauthos (Feb 18, 2013)

I, for one, am looking forward to UFC 157 this weekend with the headlining fight being Rhonda Rousey defending her bantamweight title against Liz Carmouche.

What are other peoples thoughts about this?

Several people have claimed, as they did with female boxing, that combative sports are not the place for female competitors.  In fact, at one point, Dana White had actually said he would never allow female fighters to compete within the UFC.

However, with the growing popularity of the sport, he, in my opinion, quite rightly, has gone back on that statement and I believe there as there are a lot of very talented hard working female MMA fighters out there, this will help to promote the sport further.  Although, no doubt the haters out there will claim it is wrong, a blood sport (again) etc, etc.

The only real question I have is, will Rhonda Rousey win by armbar again? 

Edit:  Apologies for the incorrect UFC number referenced in the title.


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## celtic_crippler (Feb 18, 2013)

My only issue is that Dana just handed her the belt. I feel it would have been better to hold a bracket-style tournie to fill the new championship


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## Steve (Feb 18, 2013)

My only problem with this is that the division is exactly one person deep.  There is Rhonda Rousey and then several notches down is a group of maybe ten or fifteen fighters, and then several notches below that is everyone else.

I'm not interested in seeing fighters (female or otherwise) get murdered in the ring over and over.  

I will be very, very surprised if this fight goes into round 2.  The only way Rousey loses is if she just doesn't take it seriously.

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## Carol (Feb 18, 2013)

I am looking forward to seeing her fight, even if she does win by another armbar 

I hope this is the beginning of more female fighters on UFC.


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## Never_A_Reflection (Feb 18, 2013)

I am really excited to see this fight--it is an historic event in combat sports, and it should be a fun fight! I am a fan of Ronda, and have been since I watched her compete in the 2008 Olympics, so I'll be rooting for her and I fully expect her to win her fight, but Liz Carmouche is no slouch and was seconds away from being the Strikeforce Women's Bantamweight Champion not too long ago, so she shouldn't be underestimated. The fact that Liz is the first openly homosexual fighter in the UFC makes this event even more impressive, and I'm a fan of hers, too.

With regards to Dana giving her the belt--he did the same thing with Jose Aldo when the UFC absorbed the WEC, if I remember correctly. I believe that their policy is that any new divisions without champions will have a tournament-type arrangement to determine the champion, and any new divisions they carry over from another organization will retain the same champion they already have.

With regards to depth in the division--every sport starts somewhere, and women's MMA is growing. There are women in that division who are very skilled MMA fighters, even if their grappling isn't on par with Ronda's which allows her to win very quickly. There are up-and-comers (including Sara McMann, an Olympic Silver Medalist in Wrestling) that are showing great skills and potential. Give it time and a strong platform to showcase itself, and the talent pool will grow.


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## Steve (Feb 18, 2013)

I think we're at least five years from any serious parity in the division.  



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## Twin Fist (Feb 18, 2013)

it had to have a superstar to get started, there is always a lag between the superstars and the rabble

it will even itself out in time


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## ballen0351 (Feb 18, 2013)

Does not excite me at all.  I don't find womans fighting to be that entertaining.  I like woman's judo and BJJ comps but boxing and MMA not so much.  I don't have a problem with it by all means have at it I just don't normally watch it.


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## jezr74 (Feb 18, 2013)

I think Ronda will take it.

I'd be interested in seeing Rousey take on Chris Cyborg. But Ronda will only do it of Cyborg will drop to her weight.


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## Twin Fist (Feb 19, 2013)

Cyborg should be banned FOR LIFE, i would REFUSE to fight a proven steroid junkie


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## punisher73 (Feb 19, 2013)

Twin Fist said:


> Cyborg should be banned FOR LIFE, i would REFUSE to fight a proven steroid junkie



As opposed to all the other steroid junkies that haven't been caught? :wink2:


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## jezr74 (Feb 19, 2013)

Twin Fist said:


> Cyborg should be banned FOR LIFE, i would REFUSE to fight a proven steroid junkie



She's done the time. So guess she is valid to redeem herself.

I find it hard to judge people on steroid use these days, as punisher was indicating, you never know who's on it. And you also get naive players who get given supplements and don't know or something that is legal today is not when they fight four months later. Also some athletes can afford to train in high altitude conditions that others don't have access to, that's fairly common and can have the same benefits of chemical enhancements.


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## Steve (Feb 19, 2013)

jezr74 said:


> She's done the time. So guess she is valid to redeem herself.
> 
> I find it hard to judge people on steroid use these days, as punisher was indicating, you never know who's on it. And you also get naive players who get given supplements and don't know or something that is legal today is not when they fight four months later. Also some athletes can afford to train in high altitude conditions that others don't have access to, that's fairly common and can have the same benefits of chemical enhancements.
> 
> ...



They're all on something.  Doesn't matter the sport.  If there is money to be made, and a pill or shot could mean the difference between 5 digits or 6 on payday... Or maybe you're an athlete on the bubble between getting cut or not... It's about making your living.

Whether its cycling, football, soccer, baseball, or whatever.  If there is an artificial way to gain an edge, it's being done.  

But regarding cyborg, Rousey holds all the cards, and if cyborg wants to remain relevant, she will either cut to rousey's class (whether its healthy or not) or negotiate a catch weight match.  Rousey doesn't need cyborg, but cyborg most definitely needs Rousey.


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## jezr74 (Feb 19, 2013)

Yep, agree.

I think there is a ferocity with Chris and Ronda, that I don't see in Liz.


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## Twin Fist (Feb 19, 2013)

as far as cyborg is concerned, what you are seeing is 'roid rage

cheaters lose the right to continue to compete


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## jezr74 (Feb 19, 2013)

Twin Fist said:


> as far as cyborg is concerned, what you are seeing is 'roid rage
> 
> cheaters lose the right to continue to compete



Don't think it's "roid rage", aside from not agreeing there is such a thing (I know a lot of bodybuilders that are openly on steroids and I've never seen this rage people have mentioned before) I think it's more a tactic used by people for arguments sake rather than actual knowledge of what steroids can do to a person medically and psychologically.

The ferocity I've seen has been from earlier fights, a lot earlier. She just seems to have this natural instinct that you see in some fighters.


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## Twin Fist (Feb 19, 2013)

i dont care if she is sugar ray robinson reincarnated, she cheated

i dont care what else a cheater did or didnt do, it is ALL tainted, just like Royce Gracie, hell, he cheated and still lost.


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## Mauthos (Feb 20, 2013)

I don't necessarily disagree with you Twin, but there have been plenty of examples of steroid use within the UFC, when the baby face assassin (can't remember his real name) beat Randy Couture for the title, it was later uncovered that he had used steroids and tbh, looking at his eyes when he won it was quite apparent.

Yes, he was stripped of the title and Randy was offered it back, which he refused claiming a loss was a loss no matter the situation.  But once old baby face was confirmed as clean he was allowed to compete again.

The same has been done for Chris Leben, who has, if I remember correctly been tested positive for steroids at one time and also for cocaine.  He was also temporarily banned but allowed to compete again once proven his system was clean again.  Another example is Chael Sonnen who tested positive for a form of performance enhancing drug when he almost beat Anderson Silva.  Not only has he been back he has had another title shot since and is due for another one in April against Jon Jones.

So although there is part of me that agrees with the statement that they have cheated and should not be allowed to compete again, I do think you will see fighters like Cyborg back as the UFC has not yet permanently banned anyone for taken any form of drug, performance enhancing or not.


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## Carol (Feb 20, 2013)

Steve said:


> But regarding cyborg, Rousey holds all the cards, and if cyborg wants to remain relevant, she will either cut to rousey's class (whether its healthy or not) or negotiate a catch weight match.  Rousey doesn't need cyborg, but cyborg most definitely needs Rousey.



Realistically, do you think we'll ever see catch weight matches for women's UFC?  That has been something I've wondered about since the fight between cyborg and Carano.


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## Steve (Feb 20, 2013)

Carol said:


> Realistically, do you think we'll ever see catch weight matches for women's UFC?  That has been something I've wondered about since the fight between cyborg and Carano.



Not really.  It's more likely with a pool as small as the women, but not in the UFC.  Which really only hurts cyborg.  


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## punisher73 (Feb 20, 2013)

Steve said:


> Not really.  It's more likely with a pool as small as the women, but not in the UFC.  Which really only hurts cyborg.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD



Probably won't be seeing a Rousey v. Cyborg fight anytime soon in the UFC.  Cyborg just signed with another promotion.  I agree with what you said earlier.  Rousey is THE name in women's MMA right now (in America), Cyborg is a nobody to the american public, her flash in the pan was the fight against Carano that was tainted by tested positive for steroids.


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## punisher73 (Feb 20, 2013)

Mauthos said:


> I don't necessarily disagree with you Twin, but there have been plenty of examples of steroid use within the UFC, when the baby face assassin (can't remember his real name) beat Randy Couture for the title, it was later uncovered that he had used steroids and tbh, looking at his eyes when he won it was quite apparent.
> 
> Yes, he was stripped of the title and Randy was offered it back, which he refused claiming a loss was a loss no matter the situation.  But once old baby face was confirmed as clean he was allowed to compete again.
> 
> ...



You are thinking of Josh Barnett, he tested positive (a couple times now) for steroids.  Chris Leben has tested positive for steroids and other drugs before.  Chael Sonnen DID test positive for steroids and served his ban, and that was BEFORE he ever fought Silva.  Sonnen was clean for both of their fights.  

Tim Sylvia also tested positive for steroids in the UFC after gaining the HW title.

Like any sport, if you are popular with the fans and draw crowds/money they will give you another shot.  In the end, it is all about money.


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## punisher73 (Feb 20, 2013)

Twin Fist said:


> i dont care if she is sugar ray robinson reincarnated, she cheated
> 
> i dont care what else a cheater did or didnt do, it is ALL tainted, just like Royce Gracie, hell, he cheated and still lost.



That is incorrect.  The fight was in 2007, Royce Gracie vs. Sakuraba in a rematch.  Royce won via decision and then tested positive for steroids after the fight.  If you look at Gracie's record, they still have the win on there with no indicator of the drug test failure.  It was the last time Royce has fought though.

IMO I think that the minimum is that the fight is changed to a loss on the record or at least ruled a "no contest".  Same way if the fighter is DQ'd for a rule violation during the fight.


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## punisher73 (Feb 20, 2013)

jezr74 said:


> Don't think it's "roid rage", aside from not agreeing there is such a thing (I know a lot of bodybuilders that are openly on steroids and I've never seen this rage people have mentioned before) I think it's more a tactic used by people for arguments sake rather than actual knowledge of what steroids can do to a person medically and psychologically.
> 
> The ferocity I've seen has been from earlier fights, a lot earlier. She just seems to have this natural instinct that you see in some fighters.



Agreed, roid rage is more of a media hype than a medical reality.  Most of those guys were *******s BEFORE they started to roid up.  I think that in certain rare circumstances it could happen, but not like the media portrays.

If you really want to educate yourself (in general not you specifically jezr) on steroid usage, watch the documentary "Bigger, Stronger, Faster".  it is very enlightening.


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## Carol (Feb 20, 2013)

Bigger, Stronger, Faster was a fascinating documentary.  Its floating around YouTube, for anyone interested.


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## Mauthos (Feb 21, 2013)

Thanks for the clarification Punisher and yep, it was Josh Barnett I was thinking about.  Only question I have is relating to this:



> Chael Sonnen DID test positive for steroids and  served his ban, and that was BEFORE he ever fought Silva.  Sonnen was  clean for both of their fights.



I thought that Chael Sonnen's failed test for PEDs was after UFC 117 where he fought Anderson Silva for the first time?  I may be wrong, but I think he claimed it was a natural drug he had used, but did serve his 1 year ban to then get his rematch with Anderson at UFC 148 (after a couple of other fights first obviously), please correct me if I am wrong.


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## punisher73 (Feb 21, 2013)

Mauthos said:


> Thanks for the clarification Punisher and yep, it was Josh Barnett I was thinking about.  Only question I have is relating to this:
> 
> 
> 
> I thought that Chael Sonnen's failed test for PEDs was after UFC 117 where he fought Anderson Silva for the first time?  I may be wrong, but I think he claimed it was a natural drug he had used, but did serve his 1 year ban to then get his rematch with Anderson at UFC 148 (after a couple of other fights first obviously), please correct me if I am wrong.



I was wrong, I didn't realize that their two fights were so far apart.  Sonnen failed the test, but the athletic commission later reversed it's decision because Sonnen was under a doctor's care and should have been on the testosterone.  The commission did still impose a 6 month suspension for failure to disclose that on the medical forms (the original was going to be a 1 year suspension for the PED violation).


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## Mauthos (Feb 21, 2013)

Thanks, appreciate you taking the time to answer.  I am a UFC nut, love to watch it but have a poor, poor memory concerning any statistics etc.

Thanks again.


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## Never_A_Reflection (Feb 21, 2013)

Just an interesting note to bring us back on topic:

[video=youtube_share;Ex7whuyytQ8]http://youtu.be/Ex7whuyytQ8[/video]

Hopefully that video works, because I'm at work and YouTube is blocked so I can't confirm that it embedded properly. If it didn't, though, you can click here to go to the video. According to Dana White, UFC 157: Rousey vs. Carmouche has already sold more tickets than UFC 155: Junior Dos Santos vs. Cain Velasquez.


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## Never_A_Reflection (Feb 23, 2013)

And she does it again, folks!

http://www.mmarising.com/articles/2...bmits-liz-carmouche-retains-title-at-ufc-157/

It was an awesome performance by both fighters!


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## Tez3 (Feb 24, 2013)

Carmouche's arm where she tried to sink in the standing RNC. She also sunk her arm into Ronda's teeth. Classy.






courtesy of 'Real Women watch MMA'


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## Tez3 (Feb 24, 2013)

http://www.realwomenandmensmma.com/2013/02/dont-get-me-wrong-im-happy-women-are-in.html


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## jezr74 (Feb 24, 2013)

Tez3 said:


> Carmouche's arm where she tried to sink in the standing RNC. She also sunk her arm into Ronda's teeth. Classy.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



No mouth guard? Or is that showing how much pressure must have been on her jaw?

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## Never_A_Reflection (Feb 25, 2013)

jezr74 said:


> No mouth guard? Or is that showing how much pressure must have been on her jaw?
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD



They actually discussed this in the post-fight press conference. Liz said that the couldn't get her arm in place for the choke so she cranked it across the face, which put her arm in Ronda's mouth, and Ronda said that caused her mouthpiece to pop down off of her teeth. Both agreed that it was accidental, and in looking at the fight it doesn't appear that it caused Liz to let go of her neck crank.


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## jezr74 (Mar 3, 2013)

Carol said:


> Bigger, Stronger, Faster was a fascinating documentary. Its floating around YouTube, for anyone interested.



Really enjoyed this, is well worth the watch.




Twin Fist said:


> i dont care if she is sugar ray robinson reincarnated, she cheated
> 
> i dont care what else a cheater did or didnt do, it is ALL tainted, just like Royce Gracie, hell, he cheated and still lost.



Watch that doco Carol mentioned, might give you some insight to the physiology of a steroid taker. I think everyone should get at least one chance to make up for a bad decision. She's done the time, and as people have stated, she now has to live with it, and start all over and see if she can recover her career.


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## Twin Fist (Mar 4, 2013)

the mind set of the cheater?

pretty sure it is something like this:

i want to do good, but it is hard, i think i will cheat, and then i will be awesome


no, you will be a cheater

cyborg is a POS

she cheated. and i dont care why


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