# The truth of JKD finally revealed!



## FatDragon

For those who haven't read Teri Tom's book, "The Straight Lead: The Core of Bruce Lee's Jun Fan Jeet Kune Do", I would strongly recommend it. She is a board member of the Bruce Lee Foundation and long time student of, and certified instructor under, Ted Wong (the man who spent more personal time with Bruce than any of the other original students). 

First a quote from Bruce on JKD: "Only one of 10,000 can handle it. It is complete martial art. Complete offensive attacks. It is silly to think almost anyone can learn it." 

Ted Wong asked Bruce what he meant in that quote. Bruce said that most people lack the discipline to learn the simple techniques found in JKD, and keep practicing those techniques over and over and over again, knowing that you will never achieve true perfection. Bruce said the average martial arts student is more confident in learning stances, punches, and set patterns of attack and defense. But when it comes time to use this in a real fight, they are defeated by their own "classical mess". 

Here are some things from the book that reveal the truth of JKD. After reading, you will understand that most of the schools claiming to teach JKD today are completely bogus. In fact, in reading the first statement you can see that one of the most famous JKD "instructors" has bastardized Bruce's system. 

"JKD is NOT kali, escrima, or "27" arts"

For over 30 years, certain so-called JKD instructors have been teaching techniques that were never developed or practiced by Bruce Lee. In some cases, they have taken certain arts like kali and escrima, and misrepresented them as JKD. _Nowhere _in Bruce Lee's writings will you find notes on kali or escrima techniques. In fact, nowhere in Bruce Lee's private notes will you find an in-depth analysis of any arts other than Western fencing and boxing, and in earlier years, Wing Chun. If he briefly mentioned other arts, it was to understand their strengths and shortcomings, so that he could find ways to defeat them. There is no such thing as "JKD blend", as some instructors have claimed.

"JKD is not Wing Chun"

JKD is NOT a modified version of Wing Chun, as some have misrepresented it. Yes, Bruce initially studied Wing Chun. But remember, this was early in his development as a fighter. Anyone who's seen backyard training footage of Bruce knows that, by the late 60's, he'd traded his Wing Chun dummy for the heavy bag.

As noted in a letter to William Cheung (note: she is referring to a letter mentioned in an earlier part of the book), Bruce had stopped practicing Wing Chun by 1967. Some Wing Chun instructors like to claim that Wing Chun is the foundation of Jeet Kune Do and that Bruce merely expanded upon it. WRONG! He had all but _abandoned _it. Its shortcomings are what forced him to look for a completely different way of fighting.  All of this is clearly documented in Bruce's letter to Cheung. JKD is different from Wing Chun structurally, mechanically, the footwork, etc. 

"JKD is not boxing"

While Bruce may have discarded Wing Chun for the western arts of fencing and boxing, JKD is not a simplified version of those arts either. To the untrained eye, it may appear as though Jeet Kune Do is nothing more than a fancy name for boxing or kickboxing. This is a common misconception not helped by the fact that, for years, certain people have been teaching what is essentially kickboxing and passing it off as JKD. A few of the things seperating JKD from boxing/kickboxing is the stance, strong side forward, thumbs up punching techniques, range of fighting, etc. 

"Having No Form" versus Having "No-Form"

Over the years many have misinterpreted Bruce's words regarding "no way as way". They practice and teach whatever and then call it JKD. As a result, the actual techniques that Bruce developed are being lost. Failure to master the basic laws of leverage, body position, balance, footwork, and so forth is what Bruce termed "having no form". In other words, ignorance. "No-form", on the other hand, is that level of executing techniques to such perfection that doing so no longer requires thought. (As in the quote from Enter The Dragon..."when there is an opening, _I _do not hit, it hits all by itself").

JKD is both a philosophy _AND _a system that Bruce continued to refine until his untimely death. Over the years, some have misinterpreted Bruce's words regarding personal expression to mean "anything goes"-that by taking a little bit of this and a little of that from many different arts, they are then practicing JKD. Ironically, this leads to the very surface knowledge and mechanical conditioning that Bruce was railing against. 

And for further evidence of Bruce being against the incorporation of other arts into his JKD system, refer to page 50 of Commentaries on the Martial Way and read the tale of X and Y. That was taken from a letter written by Bruce to his student Jerry Poteet, who wanted to mix JKD drills with kenpo karate. Obviously, Bruce objected.


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## Robert Lee

The truth has been around for a very long time. the problem is the people that have not studied JKD at all. Or have trained little in it. Wing chun still shows in JKD just not as much. JKd took on Wing chun, western Boxing. from Ali. patterson And dempsey. Then fenceing  JKD concepts is the concept look at other arts. But if you want to train JF/JKD you can and not have to train the other aspects. At several concept schools. The 1 in 10,000 is that to understand you have to let go to get it ,it being your JKD after you have trained it. Jkd has a method to learn by then in live performance that is what you do as your JKD.  Politics way heavy about JKD because it is missunderstood to be most any thing By the words take what  is useful . That was meant to be withing the JKD training. Now modern aspects say yes look around Add what you need take away what you do not. But that is not any longer JKD other then your OWN personal use not what should be taught as JKD to others. As they need to find there own either through just JKD tools or other tools that help them only.  Which has allways meant JKD is the art founded and taught during Bruces lifetime. But Should evolve to  For the person now that we do have more exposer then was around back when Bruce was alive. keep it near what Bruce taught. But agin do not condem the personal side for each.


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## Jimi

I respect Ted Wong as much as many other original students of Si Jo Li Jun Fan (Bruce Lee). To infer that this instructor who was certified by Bruce to teach his art is bastardizing JKD because he also offers Kali, and other arts sounds kind of bias against that instructor(any need to mention names?) I have no issue with Ted Wong and his right to teach JKD, and his ablilties stand on their own, but I doubt that he has the exclusive to teach JKD. Why doubt another mans right to teach JKD as well. I believe Bruce would be happy with what both of his students & friends have done to share. Why detract from what someone else does? I do think Bruce may haved frowned on that, but I can not speak for Bruce. I absolutely believe Ted Wong has the right to teach what and how he sees fit, and so does this instructor who supposedly is bastardizing Bruces work. Both instructors and others believe deeply in Bruces work, I repeat, I do not believe either have the sole exclusive to JKD. If you do not believe this other instructor should be teaching JKD, don't train with him, and advance with what you can with who you do believe in. Detracting from a certified instructor of JKD from Si Jo Bruce himself does no one any good. Train hard and uphold what Bruce believed in, don't bicker that my Sifu is better than your Sifu, sounds like Kung Fu Theater. PEACE


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## Robert Lee

Jimi said:
			
		

> I respect Ted Wong as much as many other original students of Si Jo Li Jun Fan (Bruce Lee). To infer that this instructor who was certified by Bruce to teach his art is bastardizing JKD because he also offers Kali, and other arts sounds kind of bias against that instructor(any need to mention names?) I have no issue with Ted Wong and his right to teach JKD, and his ablilties stand on their own, but I doubt that he has the exclusive to teach JKD. Why doubt another mans right to teach JKD as well. I believe Bruce would be happy with what both of his students & friends have done to share. Why detract from what someone else does? I do think Bruce may haved frowned on that, but I can not speak for Bruce. I absolutely believe Ted Wong has the right to teach what and how he sees fit, and so does this instructor who supposedly is bastardizing Bruces work. Both instructors and others believe deeply in Bruces work, I repeat, I do not believe either have the sole exclusive to JKD. If you do not believe this other instructor should be teaching JKD, don't train with him, and advance with what you can with who you do believe in. Detracting from a certified instructor of JKD from Si Jo Bruce himself does no one any good. Train hard and uphold what Bruce believed in, don't bicker that my Sifu is better than your Sifu, sounds like Kung Fu Theater. PEACE


 The instructor You are talking about is not taking away from JKD as I see it. concepts Are applications that are meant to enhance knowledge performance and the inuvidual finds in those what they take. And this instructor As I am aware of will hand down a pure type Of JKD if a person show they are ready and willing to learn. And this person was given a burden when Bruce passed that many wanted to learn JKd but he made a promise And has tryed to live by that promise. The way it is now is we have Jun fan// JKD being offered  Then we have concepts that can bring a person to there needs. And those concepts the people do not have to learn JKD if they choose not to. The problem is the politics. To much of that then the people who add this and that and want to say that is JKD with out ever taking one real JKD lesson. If a person wants to put something in there JKD that they have trained. It is there choice. But then its only theres not really JKD as even This instructor you have pointed out Offers As Jun fan// JKD. But yes it would be personal JKD . Politics has taken its toll on JKD. Any way you look at it. If a person does Any M/A at all and finds some kind of useful aspects that they are able to improve what they do  Thats great.  and if a person Goes the concept way fine or the what is now callled OJKD way fine to. Both ways You will If JKD is waht you want to train You will learn The other arts are the concepts but JKD is still JKD. Any way the world knows that This instructor is the real deal Look what he has done to promote JKD and several other arts over the years.


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## Jimi

I agree, long live JF/JKD!


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## Calm Intention

Hi(I'm a newbie),

I knew a fella way back in 78-79 period who trained in JKD(I think he mentioned a school in Dallas, TX),  and he knew Bruce's art and philosophy in its pure sense(so I thought, having read some material- but no training),  and claimed to have trained with someone from affilitated with the original school.    This guy knew the energy drills, sticky hands, trapping, etc.    I really dug that.
He also warned me as far back as then,  about those corrupting what Master Lee was about.

I noted the comments 'take what is useful', and 'no way as way',  and those are some of the central themes of his philosophy as I remember.

I would add that meaning tends to get lost in its translation,  and the 'word'  doesn't necessarily convey things properly.
I'm almost certain Bruce mentioned that you must 'feel intrinsically'(like a Zen of Knowing)  what he was trying to say.

Regarding 'bastardization'.   I wonder how someone who so believed in 'adaptability'(take what is useful),  would view things today,  as opposed to 3 decades earlier.   I think he'd apprecitate the evolution of adaptability for its own sake;  but I'm 100% certain he'd want to test it out for effectiveness.

I also think he'd be right in there with the U.F.C. head-bangers,  though I personally don't approve the U.F.C. for what it stands for(anti-disciplinary, and offering a purse thru its commercialization).


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## Robert Lee

Take what is useful  means after you have trained in JKD and have found the useful tools that work for you that is your JKD. Not take what is useful from several arts and then call that JKD. the way of no way. You are not bound by method of delivery. prearranged selfdefence aspects to certion attack or defence methods. If you have to bite your opponent you bite him. . Now to evolve yes if you notice through exposer to other methods A usefulness that you want to applie to your method No one is stopping you from that. But do not just add and add. to add means you need to look at what you need to take away. Concepts leaves you with your understanding of what best meets your needs. That is good is it JKD well know its concepts. Is it if you trained JKD then put a little something in the mix to enhance your performance. Both yes and no. Yes its now your personal aspect for you. No it is not JKD as you should hand down to others. Because you alone made that mix. Yes you can relate it to others in concepts. So they can add or not to there own JKD But agin as you add theres a part that has to go away as adding means you found something that better meets the need. the other then is not needed. JKD is personal after you train. Thats its freedom you by then have found the tools that best meet your needs. the training method guides the learning the live performance finds the persons needs.


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## Calm Intention

Robert Lee said:
			
		

> 1.Take what is useful means after you have trained in JKD and have found the useful tools that work for you that is your JKD. Not take what is useful from several arts and then call that JKD.
> 2.Now to evolve yes if you notice through exposer to other methods A usefulness that you want to applie to your method No one is stopping you from that. But do not just add and add. to add means you need to look at what you need to take away.
> 3.Concepts leaves you with your understanding of what best meets your needs. That is good is it JKD well know its concepts.
> 4.Is it if you trained JKD then put a little something in the mix to enhance your performance. Both yes and no. Yes its now your personal aspect for you. No it is not JKD as you should hand down to others. Because you alone made that mix. Yes you can relate it to others in concepts. So they can add or not to there own JKD
> **But agin as you add theres a part that has to go away as adding means you found something that better meets the need*
> **the other then is not needed*


:

When I was younger I used to read quite a few materials related to Master Lee's philosophy,  and  though I am possibly wrong,  I think "my style is no style",  and other such comments from Bruce,  was an attempt to convey his antipathy for being catalogued and defined within one way(hence 'no way').
Bruce was about as 'fluid' as you could be,  so my view of JKD is that it is only meant to be 'concept'-  a true philosophy of motion and energy in play.  Bruce was 'nature' too, and therefore 'change'(fluid), was the way.

The art was not meant to be static,  and to 'add' something,  doesn't mean to leave something else go.  Its not like JKD had a top figure of use-able methods,  and if something 'useful'(and new) appeared,  meant to disregard what you've already aquired.

I made a mistake earlier,  JKD is not a martial art per se,  it is martial concept, or martial way.   And that is why I have the highest respect for Master Lee's philosophy.


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## Toasty

FatDragon said:
			
		

> , Ted Wong (the man who spent more personal time with Bruce than any of the other original students).
> 
> *Says who? Ted Wong...?*
> 
> 
> 
> First a quote from Bruce on JKD: "Only one of 10,000 can handle it. It is complete martial art. Complete offensive attacks. It is silly to think almost anyone can learn it."
> 
> Ted Wong asked Bruce what he meant in that quote. Bruce said that most people lack the discipline to learn the simple techniques found in JKD, and keep practicing those techniques over and over and over again, knowing that you will never achieve true perfection. Bruce said the average martial arts student is more confident in learning stances, punches, and set patterns of attack and defense. But when it comes time to use this in a real fight, they are defeated by their own "classical mess".
> 
> 
> *Ok, what are those "simple techniques"?*
> 
> 
> Here are some things from the book that reveal the truth of JKD. After reading, you will understand that most of the schools claiming to teach JKD today are completely bogus. In fact, in reading the first statement you can see that one of the most famous JKD "instructors" has bastardized Bruce's system.
> 
> "JKD is NOT kali, escrima, or "27" arts"
> 
> *Wow, pretty tough talk from a chick who never even MET Mr. Lee let alone trained with him...*
> 
> For over 30 years, certain so-called JKD instructors have been teaching techniques that were never developed or practiced by Bruce Lee. In some cases, they have taken certain arts like kali and escrima, and misrepresented them as JKD.
> 
> *Yep, spoken like somone who does not understand what the person in question actually does teach.*
> 
> 
> And for further evidence of Bruce being against the incorporation of other arts into his JKD system, refer to page 50 of Commentaries on the Martial Way and read the tale of X and Y. That was taken from a letter written by Bruce to his student Jerry Poteet, who wanted to mix JKD drills with kenpo karate. Obviously, Bruce objected.
> 
> *Yeah, that was 30+ years ago - you dont think he would have grown as a martial artist & perhaps incorporated new training methodologies & martial arts (and their applications) or do you think he would have stayed exactly the same as he was in 1973 (when he was far more concerned about making movies - you know... his "chief number one goal) ?*
> *Because his personal history shows otherwise...*


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## Robert Lee

Bruce researched The western boxing concept. The fencing concept adapted that to his wing chun concept. Then he discarded what he felt was not over all general usefulness of the different aspect. And continued to drop certion methods as he evolved. That was anbd is JKD how it was taught to others. Then as they learned they found in that certion structure they to had the pieces they put together That the person found they could use. That part Has No way. but what is it. Its as the boxer is in the ring fighting a live resistive opponent He put to use the tools he has found useful that works for him to achive his goal. JKD is not a concept until you have learned its method of training to aquire the tools that relate to the JKD method. Fighting is fighting when that is what you are doing free from set deliver only options. Not confined to this or that but like walking You do not think of which step first and so forth you just walk so you just act and react in fighting. you have made the tools you learned that worked for you just part of that procsess you have no way then you are just doing what you do. Why take something from say another art if it does not improve over what you are allready doing. And if it does. Ten why do you need that certion tool that the new method helps you to better perform. Discard that old one you have something now better that helps just you. NOW grappling Bruce encouraged more investigation by the students to look into the different grappling arts to better enhance performance there. JKD has an amount of grappling that Bruce put in it. But reseach was not yet say complete to its application. The idea of JKD was to help blend as a complete fighter of the martial arts. All styles of M/A has freedom those that find it are what you see as that better representives of there art. they do what they do make things work it flows for them. Where others do not let go cling to the subject matter That part the subject matter is meant to help train you not set a pattern to how you must use it. The use is only found in the peformance of how you becaome able to deliver what you now have learned. JKD indeed has a method of foundation traing that is soley unique to JKD at its different areas Other arts appied to the concept of JKD are concepts. In the end no art is really style or way. its what you do You the person becomes who and what you are after being influenced by something that brought you to a better way Then yes you can say JKD is perhaps a concept because you are now not looking just at JKD you are JKD But you are not JKD if you did not train in its method its structure of learning​


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## Shaolin Bushido

So, are the comments in the initial post a backhand slap at Dan Inosanto?  Seems like it was whether it was intended that way or not.  Anyone?


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## AceHBK

Shaolin Bushido said:
			
		

> So, are the comments in the initial post a backhand slap at Dan Inosanto? Seems like it was whether it was intended that way or not. Anyone?


 
Excellent point made.  I am curious to that myself.  It was Dan that taught Brandon Lee.


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## Robert Lee

Shaolin Bushido said:
			
		

> So, are the comments in the initial post a backhand slap at Dan Inosanto? Seems like it was whether it was intended that way or not. Anyone?


 Seems like part may point that direction and part points to those that have put this with that and call it JKD. BUt every one knows Dan use of what is Concept is not what Dan has taught as Jun Fan/// JKD. His concepts explore The other arts he has looked into and trained in the areas he prefured and offers those to people that want to look further. nothing wrong there at all.  Its just that JKD has grown so much in politics alot want there method to be right. As long as Dan has been around most people know the truth to his background. And they have a choice to train where they want Take the politics out of JKD and then it will end the great debate of whos right whos wrong. And Dan is a big enough person not to feed into this bashing Perhaps if more were like him in that aspect The politics would have never grown.


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## Jimi

I would like to read fat dragons opinion a little more clearly. With out naming Dan, that post sure infered him in several ways. Don't beat about the bush, where you saying Dan is bastardizing JKD, or some other instructor with 30 years experience in JF/JKD that turned Kali into JKD? I don't see how much of that post has solely addressed Teri Tom's new book, (that I believe is a compitent work, and more indepth insight into the straight lead is long overdue), it seemed to use the book a an entry to bash this instructor blending JKD out of existence. Do you believe this instructor (I believe you are refering to Dan) has no truth to share about JKD?


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## Shaolin Bushido

Ya, this thread could use a little plain speak ... bs'ing around about famous men who have accomplished as much as Guru Dan Inosanto is just complicating communication in this thread needlessly.  Without Dan's dedicated advancement of JKD, it would be about as well-known and widespread as 52 blocks.

I know.  

Never heard of it have you?  If you have, I bet you sure as hell don't know two people who agree on what it consists of.

Ted Wong.  Ted Wong spent more time training with Bruce Lee than anyone else?  I've heard of him but not many people outside of Ted wong's immediate family holds him in as high a regard, related to JKD, as Guru Dan Inosanto.

Any kind of JKD!  

So Bruce Lee who devised JKD in like 10 or so years wouldn't have included any other techniques, tactics or strategies into it over this last 30 years and no one else was capable of that either?  Not even Dan, by your assertion probably the guy who spent the SECOND MOST AMOUNT OF TIME TRAINING with Bruce Lee.

Okay.  If you say so.  I think the truth of JKD is that there are a lot of jealous little people out there hating on Dan Inosanto, a good friend and chief student of Bruce Lee as well as THE most unassuming, giving and dedicated proponent of Jeet Kune Do that any teacher could ever hope to find and trust to be true to it's CONCEPTS while honing it's efficiency to a lethal edge.

It is a conceptual construct and trying to limit it to just a set of punches and kicks is a joke.  Trying to diss Guru Dan ... it's just pathetic.


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## rutherford

Looks like an advertisement for the book.  I doubt the poster will return to MT.


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## Jimi

I can accept an advertisment for this book, that is no problem. It is the inference that the book reveals the truth about a famous instructor of JKD basterizing Bruces work that I choke on. The validity of this book and the writer do not need such help. I wonder if Ted Wong or Teri Tom know this person seems to trying to speak for them against a man hand picked by Si Jo Bruce? I belive in the straight lead and this book interests me, except if its contents are to prove Dan Inosanto to be- um- totaly bogus. That I can't subscribe to. Just my opinionated opinion. PEACE


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## Flatlander

The irony is, the title doesn't accurately reflect the content of the lead post.  The lead post is all about what JKD isn't.  However, none of that was news to those who already know what JKD is.  So, if this is someone's proclamation that they're sharing some great secret, well, that's kind of funny.  At any rate, I see no need to further elucidate on the residual bemoanings of an over perpetuated and directionless non-argument.


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## Wild Bill

I am not an expert in JKD and I don't care about martial arts politics. That being said I would like to share something that was Emailed to me a few weeks ago.

From the Source... 
Original letter provided by Paula Inosanto
Commentary by Michael A. Krivka 

NOTE: Following are excerpts from a letter written by Paula Inosanto 
to Curtis F. Wong, Publisher of Inside Kung Fu and Inside Karate. The 
letter is well over 5 pages long and deals with articles, commentary and 
letters concerning Guro Dan, Jun Fan Gung Fu and JKD Concepts. I (Mike 
Krivka) have condensed the letter, to highlight some important 
passages, and have made notations to clarify information or to identify certain 
individuals... 

Dan has been involved in the martial arts for over 40 years, the last 
20 have been devoted 
largely to carrying on the arts of Jun Fan Gung Fu and Jeet Kune Do 
Concepts, as mandated 
by his Sifu Bruce Lee. As I am sure you will agree Dan's skill, 
reputation and credentials 
in the martial arts are above reproach. 

[In reference to a recent article in Inside Kung Fu ...] I have 
included an excerpt from Si Gung [Grandfather or your teachers 
instructor...] Lee's notes, "The Martial Way", from his original "Tao of Jeet Kune 
Do". Please note that the excerpt on Pentjak Silat is in Si Gung Lee's 
own handwriting. This passage on Pentjak Silat clearly shows that he did 
in fact investigate the art, as he did every art that he came across. 
To quote someone such as Fran 
Joseph [A student of Jerry Poteet ...] on what Si Gung Lee would, or 
would not have investigated or studied is completely irresponsible. 

Perhaps I should explain how the Jun Fan Gung Fu Institute was run. 
Dan taught 90% of all the classes, with the remaining 10% of the classes 
being taught by Si Gung Lee himself. At the time the institute was 
founded in 1967, Dan had already been Si Gung Lee's constant training 
partner, student and close friend for three years. In addition he was 
already a certified instructor in Si Gung Lee's three arts: The Tao of 
Chinese Martial Arts, Jun Fan Gung Fu and Jeet Kune Do. When the school 
opened Dan invited his Kenpo students (Jerry Poteet, Pete Jacobs, Daniel 
Lee, Steve Golden, Larry Hartsell, 
etc ...) to train under him at the Jun Fan Gung Fu Institute. 

[In reference to Jerry Poteet's training with Si Gung Lee ...] ... 
Jerry Poteet's 
actual training time during the Chinatown era was less than ten months, 
and his attendance was not consistent during that time. In fact, the 
vast majority of Jerry's training in the arts took place after Si Gung 
Lee's death, when Dan 
accelerated Jerry's training schedule to help him "catch up". 
After the death of Si Gung Lee, several of Dan's students were 
promoted to 
the status of "Instructor". It was Dan, not Si Gung Lee, who promoted 
Jerry 
Poteet, Daniel Lee, Ted Wong, Richard Bustillo, Larry Hartsell, Steve 
Golden, 
etc to "Instructor" rank. 
[In reference to the many JKD "experts" being published in Inside 
Kung Fu and Inside Karate ...] 

As for Dr. Jerry Beasley [A professor at Radford University in 
Virginia ...], 
he is neither qualified nor certified, and has apparently proclaimed 
himself 
an authority on a subject which he knows close to nothing. Dr. Beasley 
is not 
a trained practitioner in the arts of Si Gung Lee. To the best of our 
knowledge, he attended less than a handful of seminars, during which 
time he would merely observe and take notes. He is an "armchair" Jun Fan / 
JKD fraud. He misrepresents the facts and misleads the public. It is a 
shame the press lends space to promoting this type of individual. [Not 
to mention the fact that he is currently teaching a class in Kali at 
Radford University ... another art which he is not qualified or certified 
to teach.] 

Gary Dill [A student of the late James Lee, who was not certified by 
Sifu James Lee to teach Jun Fan Gung Fu or JKD ...] is yet another 
example of someone trying to "cash-in" on the late Si Gung Lee's name, and 
who, like the others, is without the proper credentials or 
qualifications 

Lamar Davis [An extremely prolific student of Gary Dills ...] is 
another unqualified and uncertified individual who like Dr. Beasley, is 
merely capitalizing on the name of Si Gung Lee. 

Contrary to what is often stated in articles appearing in your 
magazines Dan teaches the Original Jeet Kune Do. He is truly the only 
individual that knows the roots, techniques, principles and concepts of the 
arts developed and taught by Si Gung Lee. 

Dan however, will always recognize Taky Kimura as his senior and 
fellow instructor, along with the late James Lee. 
Dan continues to train a core group of lineage instructor in the arts 
of Si Gung Lee, not only here in Los Angeles, but in various locations 
around the world. Dan has done what Si Gung Lee desired of him: to 
continue exploring the concepts and ideas of the martial arts as developed 
and taught by Si Gung Lee. What Dan has not done is sold out. 
He has not commercialized, mass-marketed, prostituted or capitalized on 
Si Gung Lee, the man or the martial artist. Dan has never charged the 
instructors under him in Jun Fan or JKD for private lessons and he has 
never charged anyone to join an association or society. Dan has never 
"sold" instructorships. 

Dan has kept the art, philosophy, teachings and techniques of Si Gung 
Lee alive, true to form (and integrity), as well as protected and 
preserved for the future. There is no one alive today, with the exception of 
Si Bak Taky Kimura, who can stand in judgment of the job that Dan has 
done. 
The Kutting Edge (MAK) Nov. 1993


I have know way of verifing the information. I'm just sharing.


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## Jimi

Thank you very much Wild Bill! PEACE


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## Robert Lee

If you look at the aspects Of what Bruce looked into as to the different Martial Arts Boxing fenceing Ect, Yes He did But Not to take and train. But to understand see its usefullness See how JKD could defend aginst this or relate its method for performance. Now yes with more avalible these days you can look at these arts in concepts That Dan uses. Then train in Jkd And have a rounded way that you have exposed your self to other methods found that in your JKd you have methods that assert there self to defend and use. if confront with this type of offence. Is it JKd NO is it explored concepts yes Can it help yes. But do you have to train in  JKD in this manner NO But if you choose to thats great its you making the choice. At least you have the exposer. Jkd was not along drawn out training It was about a 2 year devolpment training then of course you had to liberate from the training through the open aspects  Spars that brought out just what you could get working  Now i would not go as far to say Dan is the only valid source for JKD. You can not go wrong seeking him out and learning all you can from him. But other sources are avalible. This kind of stuff keeps the politics going who is better qualified and who is not. James Lee had several students Bruce shut down the scools James still instructed. Taki has too. niether James or Taki certified anyone For sure. James passed away before Bruce. But the students still lived. Taki did not want to certify people Dan had a large burden he shared when he certified the remaining Back yard group. They have there ways now. People from other style of many M/A arts over time have gone on after there instructor. Founder passed and left some one the rights. To seperate and teach the same art just a different organization And they were not given the right by there founder or head of style after death. But they had good training enough to instruct. Bruce left No person incharge or told no person As I know of that if he died they would head up JKD I respect Dan very much as Most any other person does. If an instructor can trace back to one of the three phases of Bruces Jun Fan // JKd Then dont they have a piece of the pie.


----------



## monkey

I do have on dvd 1 of may seminar That Dan Inosanto has stated  ( I dont beleave 100% of what Bruce tought & even when I was with him  & I never will)The was to the referance of Bruces The True lies out side of the fixed pattern & useing No Way as Way.Dan state ( your child asks for breakfast tell him use no way find it your self.You need afixed patern to start then go from there.)When I trained We had basic to sifu guide lines & thats what the rank cards & certifacates were for.To stae a few Taki Level-3 junfan  Lew Sinder Level-1 junfan James Coburn Level-1 junfan  Sterling Silaphant Level-1 Tao  James Lee Leve -3 jkd  Level -3 jun fan Sharon Tate Level-1 junfan  to name a few that Bruce signed & stamp sealed.Yes it had a way but freedom to evolv to 3-d for fights were all other arts stay stagnent!


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## James Kovacich

Robert Lee said:
			
		

> This kind of stuff keeps the politics going who is better qualified and who is not. *James Lee had several students Bruce shut down the scools James still instructed*. Taki has too. niether James or Taki certified anyone For sure. James passed away before Bruce. But the students still lived. Taki did not want to certify people Dan had a large burden he shared when he certified the remaining Back yard group. They have there ways now..


My Sigung was one of Jimmy's students from when Jimmy taught with Al Novak in Hayward and until Jimmy died.
http://www.taoofgungfu.com/
My Sifu (Sigungs son) was there too. He was a kid but he grew up in the art and in the school. Jimmy gave him his first lesson and told his father to teach him. And to this date, they have not certified anyone. They just teach.


----------



## James Kovacich

Wild Bill said:
			
		

> *1)* After the death of Si Gung Lee, several of Dan's students were
> promoted to
> the status of "Instructor". It was Dan, not Si Gung Lee, who promoted
> *Jerry *
> *Poteet*, Daniel Lee, Ted Wong, Richard Bustillo, Larry Hartsell, *Steve *
> *Golden, *
> etc to "Instructor" rank.
> [In reference to the many JKD "experts" being published in Inside
> Kung Fu and Inside Karate ...]
> 
> *2) Lamar Davis [An extremely prolific student of Gary Dills ...] is *
> *another unqualified and uncertified individual* who like Dr. Beasley, is
> merely capitalizing on the name of Si Gung Lee.
> 
> *3)* *He is truly the only *
> *individual that knows the roots, techniques, principles and concepts of the *
> *arts developed and taught by Si Gung Lee.*
> 
> *4) I* *have know way of verifing the information. I'm just sharing*.


 
I will address a couple of points where this letter is wrong.

*1)*  Dan Inosanto admits to certfying Jerry Poteet and Steve Golden.

*2) *Lamar Davis is certfied to teach by 5 original Bruce Lee students. Two of them are Jerry Poteet and Steve Golden. I'm a member of a forum that Steve golden frequents and he has verified this to be true.
http://www.jkdbrotherhood.com/catalog.0.html.0.html
The others that he is certified by are skilled and early students of Bruce Lee. Lamar has worked hard to "learn" his JKD.

*3)* That is almost ignorant on Krivkas part.


*4)* That is understood. The rivalry of Krivka "speaking" on behalf of Paula has been around the block a few times.


----------



## Robert Lee

akja said:
			
		

> My Sigung was one of Jimmy's students from when Jimmy taught with Al Novak in Hayward and until Jimmy died.
> http://www.taoofgungfu.com/
> My Sifu (Sigungs son) was there too. He was a kid but he grew up in the art and in the school. Jimmy gave him his first lesson and told his father to teach him. And to this date, they have not certified anyone. They just teach.


 Yes But dont you think That Felix Jr would have the right to go ahead and pass on what he has learned from the oakland years and certify if he chose to do so. As What i am saying is there were other students that had good training And can pass down Jun// Fan JKD. Not just the L  A group. And who would dispute the linage it traces back to James and Bruce. And the time was spent in learning


----------



## James Kovacich

Robert Lee said:
			
		

> Yes But dont you think That Felix Jr would have the right to go ahead and pass on what he has learned from the oakland years and certify if he chose to do so. As What i am saying is there were other students that had good training And can pass down Jun// Fan JKD. Not just the L A group. And who would dispute the linage it traces back to James and Bruce. And the time was spent in learning


You're right but his love is in the art and not the direction that all arts have gone. 

Felix Jr. is OK with me teaching my art as long as I tell my students what is "mine" and not from him and I think thats 1 way how they approve their students to teach. He also allows students who have been with him  a while to teach. He just dosen't issue paper.

I've tried to get both Felix Jr. & Sr. to meet others from their time but their happy just "doing."


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## Robert Lee

Thats just fine As training any M/A is training with no name if you learn to do what you do. Because you are what you do. Just like boxing is called boxing no 200 different names for it just boxingf


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## matt.m

JKD as I understand was never really standardized.  I am asking not stating.  However, what I am asking is did Bruce set up a cirriculm?  What I am gathering of this topic post is the fact that you guys are not a big fan of Dan Isanto.

I only know of what I have seen of Bruce Lee.  I understand he used to be asked to slow his kicks down etc.  I have seen green hornet reruns where he would kick out a light bulb.  This to me is quite amazing.


----------



## Robert Lee

matt.m said:
			
		

> JKD as I understand was never really standardized. I am asking not stating. However, what I am asking is did Bruce set up a cirriculm? What I am gathering of this topic post is the fact that you guys are not a big fan of Dan Isanto.
> 
> I only know of what I have seen of Bruce Lee. I understand he used to be asked to slow his kicks down etc. I have seen green hornet reruns where he would kick out a light bulb. This to me is quite amazing.


 Dan is  doing his thing and doing it well. No disrespect at all towards him.  I would say Bruce approved of the instruction method At the different schools. Taki being the seattle instructor James being the oakland instructor And Dan being the LA china town instructor. And Bruce Being the head instructor of the 3 schools. Bruce prefured to hand select who he would teach And some recieved different aspects to the training at different times. But when you look at what was taught at the 3 different schools You saw structure to the training routine. JKD is not just thrown together And yes it did evolve when Bruce was alive and active in teaching and exploreing.  And would have changed more as Bruce would have evolved even more. Now A person can pickup with what bruce left The JKD structure And look beyond if they wish to do so. To find what best meets there needs. But JKD has a good amount of useable training tools that Help fill the gaps But like any art All the needs are not there. Never will be. Just round off what you train and go from there Is every thing JKD no Is it considered as a concept that can blend in to what JKD suggests. Yes. But to be JKD you should have the foundation Bruce researched and handed down after erything is yours alone


----------



## Thunder Foot

Hmmm...

If I'm not mistaken, Bruce taught differently during the Oakland years to his time in LA. That should serve as an exmaple of JKD's evolution, no?


----------



## James Kovacich

Robert Lee said:
			
		

> And yes it did evolve when Bruce was alive and active in teaching and exploreing. *And would have changed more as Bruce would have evolved even more.*


 
Thats our biggest dissappointment! JKD "could have" been "one" like it should be.


----------



## kroh

I'm going to have to agree that the original poster was looking for press.  Silly spamers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfXfc1CYnCw

Regards,
Walt


----------



## Flatlander

Walt, that was a fantastic video.


----------



## Thunder Foot

akja said:
			
		

> Thats our biggest dissappointment! JKD "could have" been "one" like it should be.


I apologize if replying to this is considered spam. However I believe the outcome would still be the same whether Bruce was alive longer, still living or dead. The reason for this being his constantly changing, paradoxial type description of the Art. Being that JKD's ultimate goal is to be your personal expression... the learning process itself gives way to mis-interpretation. There's bound to be fall away students... and its logical to assume that people would form what they believe to be JKD.

In addition, dismissing what I just said... I don't believe JKD is meant to be whole. For every different instructor, there is bound to be a different path. I really don't even know how there has managed to be only 2 paths of JKD for this long. Just some thoughts :asian:


----------



## James Kovacich

You're right except JKD should be one camp, not two and there should be no bickering on which camp is right.


----------



## Thunder Foot

Well, from what I've heard... JKDC is right, and only the OJKD guys bicker.[/SARCASM]

hehehe.


----------



## Fighting Spirit29

J.k.d is not actually a hybrid art, its a concept art.. anyway here is my take on it, enjoy the read 

JEET KUNE DO.....

The art of Jeet Kune Do is simply to simplify. Jeet Kune Do avoids the superficial, penetrates the complex, goes to the heart of the problem and pinpoints the key factors. Empty your cup that it may be filled; become devoid to gain totality."

Many claims have been made over the years with regards to the proper definition of Bruce Lee's art of Jeet Kune Do. To some it is a process of "Change"; others see it as just a form of "modified" Wing Chun. Many recognize Jeet Kune Do to be simply a mixture of many different elements from numerous fighting styles, all combined to hopefully, at a later stage, form something meaningful to the individual concerned.

However ...

There is but ONE definition of Jeet Kune Do (As stated by the Jun Fan Jeet Kune Do Nucleus) ... "Jeet Kune Do is the complete body of technical (physical, scientific) and philosophical (mental, social and spiritual) knowledge that was studied and taught by Bruce Lee during his lifetime. It is concerned solely and exclusively with Bruce Lee's personal evolution and process of self-discovery through the Martial Art, as supported by written record (personal papers and library) and oral recollections (by those students who spent time with and/or studied under him)."

A distinction is made between this body of work (Jun Fan Jeet Kune Do), and the individual student's own personal process of self discovery through the martial art, as each student is free to use all, some or none of Bruce Lee's teachings to assist him. Jeet Kune Do accepts you as you are and is not about setting up restrictions or "Ways" of doing things - It seeks to be a source of inspiration and delight for those who possess an interest in Bruce Lee, and the martial viewpoints that he created.

Jeet Kune Do should be considered as the "Root" that was established by Bruce Lee, and NOT the ultimate goal of any practitioner, as students are expected to modify, add, and delete all aspects of Jeet Kune Do until they develop something that is uniquely their own (You the individual become, through this process of self-discovery, your own best teacher).

With this explanation still fresh in your mind I urge you to continue reading I hope my explanations and ideas on this wonderful art and philosophy prove to be helpful and enlightening.



The Art Of Jeet Kune do...

This is my small contribution and brief introduction to the art of Jeet Kune Do as I understand it. Although I wished had the opportunity to meet Sifu Bruce Lee I continue to feel indebted to him for the changes his art and Philosophy have brought in my life - changing me mentally, physically and spiritually. I am hoping that this short passage will make you want to explore all the aspects of this interesting art, and so use it as a means of self-discovery ... Developing a NEW way of life!!

To begin with, Jeet Kune Do (abbreviated JKD from now on) means "The way of the intercepting fist" and with this combat phrase in mind, it is basically concerned with the interception of an attack, a movement or even an intention by your opponent to launch an attack. It is one of the most popular and well debated (due to each person's understanding and application of JKD being different from the next) martial arts in existence today.

There are two schools of thought in JKD practice today ... Jun Fan/JKD practitioners, and the JKD Concepts practitioners. Jun Fan/JKD practitioners concentrate on Bruce Lee's original teachings, training and fighting methods, while the JKD Concepts practitioners use Bruce Lee's ideas and theories and explore and add techniques from many other martial arts to their training - Whatever form of JKD you choose to follow, it is really up to you to find your own truth in the art of Jeet Kune DO !!!

Well, you might ask .... 
What are the main theories, principles and techniques involved ? What is the structure of this method ? What training methods are used ? How can you get involved in the learning process ? .... I will cover that in a little more detail shortly.

Although Wing Chun, a Southern form of Chinese martial art still remains the nucleus of the JKD system, western fencing with its non-telegraphic motions, footwork as well as attack and defense theory were also incorporated. Bruce Lee also liked the way that boxers fought and so body mechanics, footwork and all the evasive tactics were taken from boxing and also incorporated into his JKD system. Bruce Lee, after researching several methods of kicking, also came up with his own unique way of kicking - very fast and very direct !! It is therefore safe to say that JKD consists primarily (although he did use elements from 26 different systems) of Wing Chun, Fencing, boxing and Bruce's own unique way of kicking.

Learning the art of JKD is like putting together a large puzzle. Each period of Bruce Lee's life holds important pieces of the puzzle - The more you learn, the more complete your puzzle becomes. It also helps to learn as much about Wing Chun as possible so that you can better understand the roots of the system - You will find that the study of Wing Chun will really solidify your knowledge and understanding of JKD (It is after all the real foundation !!).




There are three major areas of concentration in JKD:

Simplicity 
Directness and, 
Non-classical attitude 
Simplicity means doing only what is necessary to complete a task as quickly and efficiently as possible - This is by no means as easy as it sounds and requires a lot of thought and practice through continual drilling of all the basics.

Directness means to follow the shortest and safest possible route to an opponent (normally a straight line) with non-telegraphic motions and doing as much damage as possible. The principle of directness in JKD can be found in the individual's ability to use his longest weapon (usually his lead hand or leg) against the nearest target on his opponent's body.

Non-classical means that all the techniques are delivered in a practical manner, unlike the majority of "fancy" techniques that are used and taught in traditional martial arts.

The first thing that must be considered is the fighting stance (Bai-jong), or the on -guard stance which Bruce Lee believed must have your power side forward - In this position your most powerful weapons are closest to your target. This stance is highly mobile with good offensive and defensive capabilities ... Plus much much more!! 
Mobility, more than anything else is highly stressed in JKD, as combat is a matter of movements ... Footwork is light, quick and economical. Good footwork is essential to close (bridge) the gap to your opponent and attack powerfully, or evade and counter an opponent's attack. The JKD fighter will use linear, lateral, angular and circular footwork patterns, so as to put himself in the best possible range.

There are three fighting ranges emphasized in JKD:

Long range 
Medium range and, 
Close range 
Each of these three ranges must be practiced. The fighter must understand the tools applied in each range and how to use them effectively. Long range is known as the fighting measure, and is the most favorable position to maintain when you are not attacking. In this long range you are basically very "safe" and it is from here that you can test your opponent's reactions without being in too much danger of being hit. You can test your opponent's reactions by using feinting or probing attacks which appear to be real!!

Kicks, punches, trapping and grappling movements can all be used in the medium range. As a general rule, by the time your opponent is moving into the medium range you should have already intercepted him and countered his offense with an attack of your own.

Once we get into the close range, head butts, elbows and knees can now be used. This is generally where close quarter grappling occurs (chokes, strangles etc.) and is a very deadly range due to the serious nature of the natural body weapons that can be employed.

Physical blocking of an incoming blow is only used as a last resort by the JKD practitioner ... instead he uses the four corner parry which redirects the incoming force. The best defense in JKD is to attack!! The next preferred method of defense is the simultaneous attack and defense whereby you parry the opponent's attack while delivering (at the same time) an attack of your own to the open line. An even more effective form of defense is to fire a fast powerful attack of your own into the same line as the incoming attack, thereby deflecting the oncoming attack and landing successfully on your target - This form of interception is called the stop-hit; when using the foot for interception it is called a stop-kick. When you have honed your interception skills, damage is done immediately to the attacker, both mentally and physically.

The most important factor in JKD training is sensitivity training. Every offensive and defensive movement will have a certain type of energy and energy flow. Sensitivity drills that are used in JKD are referred to as Chi Sao or "Sticking hands" and use of this drill will enable the student to "sense" the opponent's energy quickly and subsequently trap and counter him immediately. Chi Gerk or "Sticking legs" develops the sensitivity in the legs for sweeps, deflections and counter kicks practitioners.

Another area of vital importance in JKD is Bruce Lee's five ways of attacking. Bruce Lee realized that there are essentially only five ways that you can attack an opponent and that every empty hand attack ever conceived will fall into one of these five categories.

One of the most useful pieces of equipment for the JKD practitioner is the Mook Jong or the wooden dummy (Refer to the last picture in my photo album) from the Wing Chun system of Chinese Kung Fu - This piece of equipment allows you to train alone when no partners are available. The wooden dummy consists of a head, trunk, two upper arms, a lower arm and a lower (sometimes metal) extension that represents the lead leg of an opponent ... All the offensive and defensive moves can be performed on the dummy. Striking the dummy and performing your defensive moves on it also conditions the arms and the legs for impact - This was one of Bruce Lee's favorite pieces of training equipment !!

As you can see Jeet Kune Do is a very well rounded and balanced martial art which has something special to offer everyone from a mental, physical and spiritual point of view. It is, and will become - If you let it ... "A NEW WAY OF LIFE".

Jeet Kune Do Fitness

Intense physical training is a must in JKD or any other external Martial Art for that matter!! Please excuse the brutality in what I am about to say, but the last thing that you want to happen to you is to lose your life due to not being prepared or not in a good enough shape to carry through with a confrontation.

Bruce Lee emphasized fitness over and over again with all his students - Cardiovascular, flexibility and strength training. Cardiovascular conditioning can be accomplished through running, cycling, rope skipping, running stairs, rowing, swimming, shadowboxing and/or footwork mobility drills to name but a few ...To just give you an idea of Bruce Lee's physical prowess, he would run four miles a day in 24 to 25 minutes, thereafter he would ride his stationary exercycle full speed - 35 to 40 miles per hour continuously for 45 minutes to an hour!!

Flexibility can be maintained by implementing a serious stretching routine of at least two twenty minute sessions per day.

Strength training can be accomplished through the use of isometrics, static contraction exercises, free weights, weight machines etc.

An important element that all JKD practitioners must experience is lots of good, hard sparring with protective equipment - This brings all the fitness aspects together, as well as conditioning your body for impact, developing self-confidence, mobility, timing, power, reflexes, range awareness and the endurance necessary to succeed in an all out confrontation.

anyway i hope this was useful info


----------



## kroh

HOLY FIRST POST! Welcome to martial talk.

OK...I have the truth about JKD...

JKD is nothing more than several martial arts mixed together and Bruce Lee really didn't care about fighting so it didn't matter what he put together.

IN SECRET: Bruce Lee was really an *anthropologist* and *HE'S NOT REALLY DEAD.* He has been in seclusion studying the effects of religious fanatics that have been endlessly arguing what their god (Lee) really wanted. 

Hmmm...all we need now is said fanatics running into other people's fighting studios and causing trouble ...

Nice to know that the classical mess that Lee was trying to avoid has not only taken hold of what he devised but it has fractured it into a bunch of peices. I can't wait to see Lee's Thessis. :idunno: 

Regards, 
Walt

Best sig I ever saw: _Shut up and train_


----------



## BlackCatBonz

kroh said:
			
		

> HOLY FIRST POST! Welcome to martial talk.
> 
> OK...I have the truth about JKD...
> 
> JKD is nothing more than several martial arts mixed together and Bruce Lee really didn't care about fighting so it didn't matter what he put together.
> 
> IN SECRET: Bruce Lee was really an *anthropologist* and *HE'S NOT REALLY DEAD.* He has been in seclusion studying the effects of religious fanatics that have been endlessly arguing what their god (Lee) really wanted.
> 
> Hmmm...all we need now is said fanatics running into other people's fighting studios and causing trouble ...
> 
> Nice to know that the classical mess that Lee was trying to avoid has not only taken hold of what he devised but it has fractured it into a bunch of peices. I can't wait to see Lee's Thessis. :idunno:
> 
> Regards,
> Walt
> 
> Best sig I ever saw: _Shut up and train_


 
hahahahahaha


----------



## SFC JeffJ

Did Bruce even authorize anyone to teach?


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## BlackCatBonz

if it wasnt a martial art......couldnt anyone teach it?


----------



## SFC JeffJ

BlackCatBonz said:
			
		

> if it wasnt a martial art......couldnt anyone teach it?


Good point.

Jeff


----------



## SFC JeffJ

And I know I'm just paraphrasing here, but what about that thing Bruce said about if people start saying this is jkd and that isn't?

Jeff


----------



## Tim McFatridge

JeffJ, yes Bruce did actually authorize/certify people to teach. When he died he had certified three people to teach his art, the late James Lee, Taky Kimura and Dan Inosanto. James Lee son has the letter and everything that Bruce gave him as proof as does Taky and Dan. Do not get caught up in that though as that is the hated Politics that plagues JKD. I am in the Inosanto lineage as I am certified under Mike Keller who was under Dan Inosanto, I am also certified by Larry Hartsell as well. Either way in my honest opinion everyone who trained with Bruce has something to offer those seeking to train in JKD. I believe as Larry does that if everyone would just give credit as to where the stuff comes from then there would be no arguments in the Martial Arts. This is true in every art out there. If people would just give credit as to where they got the material they learned then everything would be alot nicer. I also believe as the late Ted Lucaylucay believed:

Ted Lucaylucay stated it best during his last interview.

"As far as the philosophy, Temujin [Gengis Khan] was the man who brought all the Mongolian tribes together. I remember talking about all the controversy earlier with all the different JKD factions now. They are all apart and yet they all come from the same family. Like the Mongolian tribes who were scattered living apart for so long and surviving, by stealing and robbing. Temujin came along and brings them all together and makes them into one great conquering nation. He was one of the great conquerors and developers. Thats what we are trying to do since there are bad vibes, politics and controversy going on. We like to use the concept of Temujin to bring all the JKD people together (those who want to come together; and learn how to live, change, share, and grow, with more togetherness and harmony). If primitive Mongolian tribes can do something like that, here we are suppose to be more civilized, educated people or nation, it would seem a little more easier for us. Our direction right now is to bring the people who want to get along together, not to create controversy among each other, and not getting involved in the nasty politics. These are the ones that are most prone to doing and enjoying what we want to do and pushing towards the same goal. And that is to get along."

This entire article is posted on our website
www.jkdkali.com


Also guys do not listen to anything "Fat Dragon" has to say. He sounds very much like a person who is posting the same type of nonsense on other forums. His post here is almost word for word as on another forum, except on that forum he came out and named Dan as well as bashed Paul Vunak and Larry Hartsell and everyone associated with Dan. It is funny that this was Fat Dragons first post when all 4 threads he posted on in another forum have been locked down becuase of him and he has no where else to post so he comes here. His name on that other forum was Ashtanga05


----------



## Fighting Spirit29

HOLY FIRST POST! Welcome to martial talk. lol ... yeah it was something i wrote a while ago, Thanks for the welcome kroh 

Interesting post too...lol


----------



## Robert Lee

The politics in JKd I do not think will go away. As long as one camp says you have to have linage through this group and another says you do not. As long as this goes on it be a seperation. I believe if you come from seattle oakland or La, Then you have a piece of the pie. Sure James is gone. Taki has not cerified anybody. But people who learned under James or Taki or Bruce at these schools Do have something that can be handed down. And now that the Bruce lee foundation is getting stronger things are changing even more. Will JKD go backwards because of copyrights. Will others do some name changing. Really If a person is not looking so much at making a dollar then you should not care about the different politics Just train or teach and train As long as You are a part of the 3 phases They all trace back to Bruce. Besides its not about JKD it is about the person learning to stand alone with what they have learned and were able to asorb to a point it worked for them. That part is theres There JKD as it may be called.


----------



## James Kovacich

Robert Lee said:
			
		

> The politics in JKd I do not think will go away. As long as one camp says you have to have linage through this group and another says you do not. As long as this goes on it be a seperation. I believe if you come from seattle oakland or La, Then you have a piece of the pie. Sure James is gone. Taki has not cerified anybody. But people who learned under James or Taki or Bruce at these schools Do have something that can be handed down. And now that the Bruce lee foundation is getting stronger things are changing even more. Will JKD go backwards because of copyrights. Will others do some name changing. Really If a person is not looking so much at making a dollar then you should not care about the different politics Just train or teach and train As long as You are a part of the 3 phases They all trace back to Bruce. Besides its not about JKD it is about the person learning to stand alone with what they have learned and were able to asorb to a point it worked for them. That part is theres There JKD as it may be called.


Good post. Unfortunately, theres a lot of talk about copyrighting and name changing, more about copyrighting though.

When I first started with Felix Jr. he told me he taught James Lee Gung Fu and so recently I reverted back to that same description when desribing my root. No matter what I do, I'm wrong.

I didn't understand it back then but the Macias's are simple and don't need attachments. Their mentality reminds me of an old video I saw that interviewed Angel Cabales who is recognized as opening the first Eskrima school in the USA. There was a tournament and demos and a lot of big names in eskrima came together and discussed get organized.

Heres the relation.  The interviewer asked Angel if he was going to join the other Masters. Angel looked pissed and said. Me join them? They should join me! 

He may have been pissed but he was content with just "being."


----------



## Flatlander

Fighting Spirit29 said:
			
		

> J.k.d is not actually a hybrid art, <snip>
> anyway i hope this was useful info


Gee, that's a fantastic cut and paste job.  I wonder who the original author was....


----------



## James Kovacich

Flatlander said:


> Gee, that's a fantastic cut and paste job. I wonder who the original author was....


You know what. I know I've read it somewhere too.


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## Robert Lee

You know when you look at JKD or any other art/style. It is truely up to each person to take what they have learned and adpt it to there needs. Or it is more or less useless for them. Every art has certion tools that a person can make useful. Some people can use more some less. Jkd has a modified out look to its training. It trains for nonclassical aproach getting to the core. No forms to remember and later break down to find the use. But like I said every person needs to become there own art. The style or way is just a path of learning some better some the same. But if you only look at the whole you miss out on yourself. You can not be your instructor or someone else. You are you. and what you learn becomes yours The better you train for performance the better you get. Thats what counts. The other aspect to most M/As is you train to learn more about fighting but you learn about living also part of the complete person. Fight when you must but live each day. When people train this or that and stay in the fish tank they see much less That fish tank is being the robot of your instructor or to the style. Not seeing that you were supossed to asorb what you could use That being yours. If instructing you give back so others can find there way. But what is yours is only yours it has no name It has a root if the root came from JKD then Jkd helped you along your own way. If it came from something else it too helped you. Most M/As have a large tool box of learning very few people can use all that is offered But many find there way And carry a smaller tool box But a useful amount. I guess what i am saying out side of all styles or ways Is you the person You make what you learn work or not Better to say I train in this art But I do what I do it has no name.


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## hasbulelias

Fighting Spirit29 said:


> J.k.d is not actually a hybrid art, its a concept art.. anyway here is my take on it, enjoy the read
> 
> JEET KUNE DO.....
> 
> The art of Jeet Kune Do is simply to simplify. Jeet Kune Do avoids the superficial, penetrates the complex, goes to the heart of the problem and pinpoints the key factors. Empty your cup that it may be filled; become devoid to gain totality.&quot;
> 
> Many claims have been made over the years with regards to the proper definition of Bruce Lee's art of Jeet Kune Do. To some it is a process of &quot;Change&quot;; others see it as just a form of &quot;modified&quot; Wing Chun. Many recognize Jeet Kune Do to be simply a mixture of many different elements from numerous fighting styles, all combined to hopefully, at a later stage, form something meaningful to the individual concerned.
> 
> However ...
> 
> There is but ONE definition of Jeet Kune Do (As stated by the Jun Fan Jeet Kune Do Nucleus) ... &quot;Jeet Kune Do is the complete body of technical (physical, scientific) and philosophical (mental, social and spiritual) knowledge that was studied and taught by Bruce Lee during his lifetime. It is concerned solely and exclusively with Bruce Lee's personal evolution and process of self-discovery through the Martial Art, as supported by written record (personal papers and library) and oral recollections (by those students who spent time with and/or studied under him).&quot;
> 
> A distinction is made between this body of work (Jun Fan Jeet Kune Do), and the individual student's own personal process of self discovery through the martial art, as each student is free to use all, some or none of Bruce Lee's teachings to assist him. Jeet Kune Do accepts you as you are and is not about setting up restrictions or &quot;Ways&quot; of doing things - It seeks to be a source of inspiration and delight for those who possess an interest in Bruce Lee, and the martial viewpoints that he created.
> 
> Jeet Kune Do should be considered as the &quot;Root&quot; that was established by Bruce Lee, and NOT the ultimate goal of any practitioner, as students are expected to modify, add, and delete all aspects of Jeet Kune Do until they develop something that is uniquely their own (You the individual become, through this process of self-discovery, your own best teacher).
> 
> With this explanation still fresh in your mind I urge you to continue reading I hope my explanations and ideas on this wonderful art and philosophy prove to be helpful and enlightening.
> 
> 
> 
> The Art Of Jeet Kune do...
> 
> This is my small contribution and brief introduction to the art of Jeet Kune Do as I understand it. Although I wished had the opportunity to meet Sifu Bruce Lee I continue to feel indebted to him for the changes his art and Philosophy have brought in my life - changing me mentally, physically and spiritually. I am hoping that this short passage will make you want to explore all the aspects of this interesting art, and so use it as a means of self-discovery ... Developing a NEW way of life!!
> 
> To begin with, Jeet Kune Do (abbreviated JKD from now on) means &quot;The way of the intercepting fist&quot; and with this combat phrase in mind, it is basically concerned with the interception of an attack, a movement or even an intention by your opponent to launch an attack. It is one of the most popular and well debated (due to each person's understanding and application of JKD being different from the next) martial arts in existence today.
> 
> There are two schools of thought in JKD practice today ... Jun Fan/JKD practitioners, and the JKD Concepts practitioners. Jun Fan/JKD practitioners concentrate on Bruce Lee's original teachings, training and fighting methods, while the JKD Concepts practitioners use Bruce Lee's ideas and theories and explore and add techniques from many other martial arts to their training - Whatever form of JKD you choose to follow, it is really up to you to find your own truth in the art of Jeet Kune DO !!!
> 
> Well, you might ask ....
> What are the main theories, principles and techniques involved ? What is the structure of this method ? What training methods are used ? How can you get involved in the learning process ? .... I will cover that in a little more detail shortly.
> 
> Although Wing Chun, a Southern form of Chinese martial art still remains the nucleus of the JKD system, western fencing with its non-telegraphic motions, footwork as well as attack and defense theory were also incorporated. Bruce Lee also liked the way that boxers fought and so body mechanics, footwork and all the evasive tactics were taken from boxing and also incorporated into his JKD system. Bruce Lee, after researching several methods of kicking, also came up with his own unique way of kicking - very fast and very direct !! It is therefore safe to say that JKD consists primarily (although he did use elements from 26 different systems) of Wing Chun, Fencing, boxing and Bruce's own unique way of kicking.
> 
> Learning the art of JKD is like putting together a large puzzle. Each period of Bruce Lee's life holds important pieces of the puzzle - The more you learn, the more complete your puzzle becomes. It also helps to learn as much about Wing Chun as possible so that you can better understand the roots of the system - You will find that the study of Wing Chun will really solidify your knowledge and understanding of JKD (It is after all the real foundation !!).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are three major areas of concentration in JKD:
> 
> Simplicity
> Directness and,
> Non-classical attitude
> Simplicity means doing only what is necessary to complete a task as quickly and efficiently as possible - This is by no means as easy as it sounds and requires a lot of thought and practice through continual drilling of all the basics.
> 
> Directness means to follow the shortest and safest possible route to an opponent (normally a straight line) with non-telegraphic motions and doing as much damage as possible. The principle of directness in JKD can be found in the individual's ability to use his longest weapon (usually his lead hand or leg) against the nearest target on his opponent's body.
> 
> Non-classical means that all the techniques are delivered in a practical manner, unlike the majority of &quot;fancy&quot; techniques that are used and taught in traditional martial arts.
> 
> The first thing that must be considered is the fighting stance (Bai-jong), or the on -guard stance which Bruce Lee believed must have your power side forward - In this position your most powerful weapons are closest to your target. This stance is highly mobile with good offensive and defensive capabilities ... Plus much much more!!
> Mobility, more than anything else is highly stressed in JKD, as combat is a matter of movements ... Footwork is light, quick and economical. Good footwork is essential to close (bridge) the gap to your opponent and attack powerfully, or evade and counter an opponent's attack. The JKD fighter will use linear, lateral, angular and circular footwork patterns, so as to put himself in the best possible range.
> 
> There are three fighting ranges emphasized in JKD:
> 
> Long range
> Medium range and,
> Close range
> Each of these three ranges must be practiced. The fighter must understand the tools applied in each range and how to use them effectively. Long range is known as the fighting measure, and is the most favorable position to maintain when you are not attacking. In this long range you are basically very &quot;safe&quot; and it is from here that you can test your opponent's reactions without being in too much danger of being hit. You can test your opponent's reactions by using feinting or probing attacks which appear to be real!!
> 
> Kicks, punches, trapping and grappling movements can all be used in the medium range. As a general rule, by the time your opponent is moving into the medium range you should have already intercepted him and countered his offense with an attack of your own.
> 
> Once we get into the close range, head butts, elbows and knees can now be used. This is generally where close quarter grappling occurs (chokes, strangles etc.) and is a very deadly range due to the serious nature of the natural body weapons that can be employed.
> 
> Physical blocking of an incoming blow is only used as a last resort by the JKD practitioner ... instead he uses the four corner parry which redirects the incoming force. The best defense in JKD is to attack!! The next preferred method of defense is the simultaneous attack and defense whereby you parry the opponent's attack while delivering (at the same time) an attack of your own to the open line. An even more effective form of defense is to fire a fast powerful attack of your own into the same line as the incoming attack, thereby deflecting the oncoming attack and landing successfully on your target - This form of interception is called the stop-hit; when using the foot for interception it is called a stop-kick. When you have honed your interception skills, damage is done immediately to the attacker, both mentally and physically.
> 
> The most important factor in JKD training is sensitivity training. Every offensive and defensive movement will have a certain type of energy and energy flow. Sensitivity drills that are used in JKD are referred to as Chi Sao or &quot;Sticking hands&quot; and use of this drill will enable the student to &quot;sense&quot; the opponent's energy quickly and subsequently trap and counter him immediately. Chi Gerk or &quot;Sticking legs&quot; develops the sensitivity in the legs for sweeps, deflections and counter kicks practitioners.
> 
> Another area of vital importance in JKD is Bruce Lee's five ways of attacking. Bruce Lee realized that there are essentially only five ways that you can attack an opponent and that every empty hand attack ever conceived will fall into one of these five categories.
> 
> One of the most useful pieces of equipment for the JKD practitioner is the Mook Jong or the wooden dummy (Refer to the last picture in my photo album) from the Wing Chun system of Chinese Kung Fu - This piece of equipment allows you to train alone when no partners are available. The wooden dummy consists of a head, trunk, two upper arms, a lower arm and a lower (sometimes metal) extension that represents the lead leg of an opponent ... All the offensive and defensive moves can be performed on the dummy. Striking the dummy and performing your defensive moves on it also conditions the arms and the legs for impact - This was one of Bruce Lee's favorite pieces of training equipment !!
> 
> As you can see Jeet Kune Do is a very well rounded and balanced martial art which has something special to offer everyone from a mental, physical and spiritual point of view. It is, and will become - If you let it ... &quot;A NEW WAY OF LIFE&quot;.
> 
> Jeet Kune Do Fitness
> 
> Intense physical training is a must in JKD or any other external Martial Art for that matter!! Please excuse the brutality in what I am about to say, but the last thing that you want to happen to you is to lose your life due to not being prepared or not in a good enough shape to carry through with a confrontation.
> 
> Bruce Lee emphasized fitness over and over again with all his students - Cardiovascular, flexibility and strength training. Cardiovascular conditioning can be accomplished through running, cycling, rope skipping, running stairs, rowing, swimming, shadowboxing and/or footwork mobility drills to name but a few ...To just give you an idea of Bruce Lee's physical prowess, he would run four miles a day in 24 to 25 minutes, thereafter he would ride his stationary exercycle full speed - 35 to 40 miles per hour continuously for 45 minutes to an hour!!
> 
> Flexibility can be maintained by implementing a serious stretching routine of at least two twenty minute sessions per day.
> 
> Strength training can be accomplished through the use of isometrics, static contraction exercises, free weights, weight machines etc.
> 
> An important element that all JKD practitioners must experience is lots of good, hard sparring with protective equipment - This brings all the fitness aspects together, as well as conditioning your body for impact, developing self-confidence, mobility, timing, power, reflexes, range awareness and the endurance necessary to succeed in an all out confrontation.
> 
> anyway i hope this was useful info



   I must admit, designating two camps for JKD is pretty weird, because under my instructor he teaches both Jun Fan JKD and teaches a combination of other martial arts, or conceptual JKD. The JKD debate is getting so sad. I think a lot of people were inspired by Bruce Lee. He endevoured to spread his art through Film and really his films have taken so many people in that we all want to be Bruce Lee, and so we all search for the "Holy Grail". Some of us think its in JKD, some of us think Dan Inosanto's got it, and some think its Wing Chun. Martially what we are missing is real footage of Bruce Lee sparring or fighting. There is a small clip I saw in the Warrior's Journey where Bruce is sparring with full gear on, and well, he was bloody fast. I could also see a very distinct form of fighting that resembled Fencing except using an effective Lead Jab and Side Kick, and some very fast straight blasts at close range(wing chun). Dan Inosanto also said in numerous interviews that not many people can utilise these weapons as the core of their fighting technique because normal human beings lack Bruce's Speed. These were Bruce's chosen and desirable weapons, although through his Jun Fan JKD curriculum it focuses on teaching all the weapons and an all rounded knowledge. And through Bruce's films, Enter the Dragon, Game of Death, we can see that Bruce emphasised an all rounded approach to Martial Art, including wrestling, sticks, judo etc... his knowledge was extensive and I believe he was trying to tell people to absorb all the arts and utilise them. Although there is a curriculum there should be no stagnation in learning. Although there are concepts you should have concepts that do not imprison. If you want to be like Bruce Lee go and trace all those steps he went through to reach where he was before he died. Once you've reached the amount of years that Bruce Lee would have died, ask yourself, "what the hell do I do now?". Thats the same question that Bruce would have asked himself. In the remaining years until 2006 Bruce would have seen the evolution of martial arts that included the rise of Brazilian Jujitsu and wrestling and the evolution of Muay Thai. I doubt that he would have stayed the way he was, and although he trained diligently to also assume that Bruce Lee was unbeatable is naive. Yes he was fast, yes he was strong, but how many times have we seen people fight and despite their attributes, their skill, their "unbeatable martial art" they still loose? I personally believe that there might not be ever be a perfect martial art and to chase this idea of being Bruce Lee because "he was the best" is naive and childlish. It was these ideas of liberation from traditions, from forms and from IGNORANCE, these were ideas mentionned by numerous thinkers before Bruce Lee, but Bruce was the one that applied it to Martial Arts. Bruce was the pioneer of the Enlightenment Era of Martial Art, we shouldnt forget that he did study Philosophy, and who can deny that he was a philosopher? Without the idea of using several martial arts to improve one's ability to defend oneself, MMA competitions, the UFC, and more importantly Total Combat/Self Defence would have never arisen. This is what the Martial Art world has to thank the Late Bruce Lee for. He was a stickler for efficiency and a bad loser, thus he never wanted to lose and pursued this road to perfection to the end. This was how he broke traditional barriers that still hold ardent Kata robots in their ignorance. If you have half a brain you would realise that being more adept both on the ground and standing up and with weapons would make u already more dangerous that someone who only knew one tradition.  Its a logical progression to all roundedness in the martial arts since one tradition such as TKD just can't punch but hell can they kick, boxing cant kick but hell can they punch, wing chun is fast but hell they're missing sparring and cardio work (plus self-delusional "Im on the REAL road to being as good as Bruce Lee" bull). I think as people who are interested in Jeet Kune Do we can be proud of the fact that we are and should be the most open minded of all the martial artists. When it comes to combat we want to get the job done. If you look at the black belters in the martial arts world such as karate, TKD, etc...and they don't learn other martial arts because they "believe" they've found the Holy Grail, you have to feel sorry for them. They are not trained to look at their weaknesses. JKD serves to unite martial differences and be rid of one's own weaknesses, it's goal is to take what is useful. In this sense there is no other intructor I would seek than a JKD instructor because JKD instructors usually have such a wide range of experiences in different martial arts. Such an understanding means that one gets closer to the Holy Grail of martial art which isnt any system or method or curriculum, but the human mind and its physical expression. We have to run away from dogma and instead seek physical expression. It might come from a phillipino origin, a japanese origin, etc... but if it works, if it gets to the target and beats your opponent down, then you've utilised JKD not because you've by luck found the right technique, but because in one's martial career you've searched and searched for more ways to express the right technique according to the situation. So many instructors and individuals who always claim to have THE martial art makes me sick. Sometimes if you have the hunger, the drive, determination, and anger you can beat down a black belter or a "proficient" "JKD" proponent who still cling to their idea of combat. No System is ever going to save us. If as JKD practitioners we have sought to perfect the art of combat, every law enforcement or military combat division in the world would be seeking our ideas on combat. But as long as we stay in our dogmatic worlds and ignore the practicalities of combat we're just going to turn out like all the other dead traditions out there from karate to tkd to muay thai to any art that seeks to call itself a unified system (of thought). You cant JUST practice one art. If you JUST practice muay thai, you wont know how to deal with someone on the ground. And the end of the day we all have our preferred techniques in a fight, but the narrower your experience the narrower one's choice of preferred techniques. I have read some parts of that book "The Straight Lead" by Ted Wong or something, and although it shed's light on the original ideas of Bruce Lee, it does nothing to improve our lot. I mean the title itself is scary. Personally I think Bruce's martial philosophy was not to just base a fighting system on one technique. The straight Lead is scientifically efficient when we consider its foundations in wing chun and fencing. But is the straight lead alone going to win you your fight? Please say no or face a life of constantly getting beaten up. The book is reaching. Its digging up the past. Its another act in solidifying an idea of what JKD SHOULD  be practically. Havent we got past this? Of course the straight Lead is important, but hell, so is the rear cross, so is the circling hook, so is the surprise takedown, so is the choke hold...is it really one special technique that we should be looking for or the ability to be fluid, to know all angles and strokes and be able to use them at the right time with the correct timing, the correct concentration and power. If we really wanted to kill someone it would be easy, try using a Gun, its not unJKD to use a gun if you need to. But is JKD just the art of killing someone? Go back to Bruce's thoughts that flowed out of the ideas of Krishnamurti, Zen Buddhism, Taoism etc...its more than that. Besides doing what he did his ideas in martial arts also included the search for himself, for enlightenment. If you're a thinker you'd know that JKD is not just the search for the perfect martial art and its not all that Bruce gave to the western world, he also gave a rich understanding he had of eastern traditions. Why is it that the peaceful ways of Taoism has paths to enlightenment via physical expression (martial art)?, How is it that Zen Buddhism concerns itself with bodily awareness as a path to seeking Buddhahood? These were the concerns of Bruce Lee and of so many monks and seekers of the past and of present times. I personally believe that we cannot separate JKD from these philosophical ideas that brought it about, ideas that are not 30 years old but centuries old. We get so strung up on finding the perfect combat system that we forget its true origins. Bruce was clever enough to know that true "JKD to kill someone" is just using the most effective weapon available...why not buy a gun guys? But that was not what he taught, and most importantly not the path he was seeking. It is no coincidence that Bruce was considered top of the martial art world and the fact that he could move so well and convincingly on screen. Both are separate disciplines that took hard work and acute awareness on his behalf.  He was a perfectionist and I believe he sought that in all aspects of his life. Watch Longstreet and the interviews he did, this was a deep man. To say that a dead system called JKD was all that he left behind is really tarnishing  a great mind. What we're looking for is not to dig up Bruce Lee, but to find the Bruce Lee of today, someone who had that same spirit, that same drive and genius, an even greater genius in fact! Let's go in this direction rather than back. This is what true martial artist's are doing. Dan Inosanto has got the right idea, he constantly searches for new ways, new movements and ideas for combat. A good instructor is one that is learning until he dies. Bruce did this and he was not the founder of such an idea. Its just common sense.


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## jeff5

I liked most of Teri Tom's book.  I didn't like the political BS at the end.  I didn't agree with everything she taught.  You have to remember that Bruce Lee taught differently to different people, Teri seems to think that her way is THE WAY.  Which it isn't.  Its Ted Wong's way, which is fine, but there are many Original Bruce Lee Students, and not all of them teach, or were taught by Bruce the same way.  

I think part of the problem is that people want a neat box of techinques to say okay this is JKD, that's it, practice it and you will be the ultimate martial artist!  That's just not the case.  There isn't one answer, one solution, one art, or one techinque that is THE answer.  JKD is an art, it has set techniques, and I think its important to know and understand what Bruce taught, yet NOT be bound or limited by it.  Most importantly JKD is about the evolution of the person who practices it.


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## matt.m

Not trying to go on a tangent but to give a similiarity or parallel to what I perceive to go on in this thread.  Someone help guide me if I am wrong.

Now as I understand there is a question of authenticity or rather a debate.  It is rather amazing that the hapkido world is at odds politically as well.  At least with JKD there is a world wide acceptance of who founded the art and what its roots are.

Imagine the politics of: One camp says that Choi and Ueshiba learn Daito Ryu Aiki Jiujitsu from the same person.  Then you hear from another camp "We certainly know Ueshiba, no record of Choi though."

Wait it gets better: In the hapkido community there is in fighting of "Choi, founded hapkido......the other side splits hairs and says nope it is Ji, Han Jae.  

I don't even want to talk about lineage....Oh boy would that start a mutiny and fight to the death at an all hapkido convention.

It is amazing to me in the respect that I have only seen Bruce on Film.  I have never read his Tao of Jeet Kune Do, only read snippets of his remarks in publication.

I will use my understanding of "No way as way" for what I interpet it.  As I understand, like tae kwon do, karate, hapkido, judo, aikido, escrima, etc.  there is indeed a cirriculum.  However, the student will take what is most useful to them after the curriculum is learned and use those mostly as their favorite techniques.

Also, during the process of problem solving of any kind there is no set or perscribed way to accomplish a task every time, you must find what is useful for the time and task at hand.

Again, I am trying to gain a better perspective as to the debate.

Thank you


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## Cthulhu

Wow, as far as I can see, this was the only post FatDragon, or whatever the hell his name is, made, and it went on for a few pages with no further input from the original poster.

Looks like a bunch of folks played into FatBasta...I meant...FatDragon's hands.

Cthulhu


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## Jimi

Fatdragons post did what it was supposed to, get attention on Teri Toms & Ted Wongs new book. Once people got invovled in debate about the book, Fatdragon job was done. I wonder if FD got paid for his add. LOL. Just making light. PEACE


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## Flatlander

matt.m said:


> I will use my understanding of "No way as way" for what I interpet it. As I understand, like tae kwon do, karate, hapkido, judo, aikido, escrima, etc. there is indeed a cirriculum. However, the student will take what is most useful to them after the curriculum is learned and use those mostly as their favorite techniques.
> 
> Also, during the process of problem solving of any kind there is no set or perscribed way to accomplish a task every time, you must find what is useful for the time and task at hand.
> 
> Again, I am trying to gain a better perspective as to the debate.
> 
> Thank you


You're close, but not quite.

The purpose of the curriculum and training methods is to promote quality fighting attributes.  The curriculum used by one may not be the same as that used by another.  Essentially, this is the core of the 'debate', as it were.  There is no consistency in curriculum absolutely from one instructor to another, particularly in the 'concepts' lineages, though at the core most are predicated on the same general ideas.  The 'nucleus' people believe there should be consistency.  Thus, the 'debate' goes: What did Bruce really want?

It's all quite silly, really.

Anyway, regarding the 'no way as a way' essentially means that there is no one way to get things done, as you and I will tend to do things as they are most natural to each of us respectively.  If that's the case, then for us to each be as efficient as possible, we'll need to allow for individual expression.  For that to happen, we'll each need to personalize our training and focus.  For that to happen, there will need to be genuine contemplation and consideration, rather than simple obedience.  For us to be honest with ourselves, there will need to be dilligent personal evaluation of our skillset.  There is no "one way" context to realize the aforementioned ideas.


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## jeff5

Here's the way I've always viewed it.

If someone says, yes, I practice Jeet Kune Do, then that must mean they pratice some form of what Bruce Lee taught before he died.  It doesn't matter if its stuff from the Seattle ( I know it wasn't called JKD then), Oakland (wasn't even called JKD then really), or L.A. years, or some combination of those.  It doesn't mean that's the only art you should practice.  (I personally believe strongly in cross training)  But to say that you practice JKD and have no understanding of what Bruce Lee actually taught, is wrong.

The whole concepts thing gets misquoted and blow out of proportion all the time.  It is possible to take the principles and concepts from JKD and apply them to other arts.  If you're really into an art, and you learn it, use what JKD teaches us to pare it down and make it more combatively effective.  You can't effectively do this though if you don't know and practice the principles, concepts, teachings and techinques themselves.


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## Robert Lee

If you look at the  begining of JKd it was in Oakland after Bruce had fought  for hir right to teach who ever he wanted. Bjut felt he should have been more effcetive. Bruce in a short time changed The Jun fan over to a more direct aproach So in a way JKD was born And later developed in the LA phase. And would have evolved more had Bruce lived. Call it JKD or Jun Fan it still is what Bruce devloped. Each chapter is different. But Bruce worked on with JAMES and TAKI as he progressed. He also trusted Both very much Sure Dan helped set up a teach program where JKD could be taught in a lesson plan. But James also had a plan. No body was to take JKD as the truth but use it to find there truth That was theres. Its like any other art if you look beyond learning and start doing. The better you get at doing You have all your freedom. SO JKD is a tool for training after it has no name but your own because you are who you are.


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## edwardcloud

i had read a bit of Bruce Lee and his thesis in my library before with some basic drawing from him. i think that he had simplified kung fu by striking at the person before they can even make an effective attack. 

To be more precise, i think that he had formulated JKD based on his experience and what he learn for many years. It is a pity that he died early or that the art may have go through a further refinery in his later years.


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## Danny2712

I dont think Jeet Kune Do should even exist...or at least not have been given a name but i guess thats imossible. Its a concept to live your martial art by and someone else trying to teach you THEIR own personal martial arts is...lacking of your OWN content. why put someone elses practices to use if they only work for them? let alone study them religiously..its so hard to find a true martial artist around here. in AUS anyway.....why does there have to be a turth to "JKD" that needs to be revealed. If you wish to reveal the truth of it then study yourself


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## simplicity

I agree and disagree with this last statement. Yes, Jeet Kune Do is about you discovery you or you looking in a mirror and reflecting on what you see. Now I have trained with many OBLS and I'm a 2nd Generation Instructor. I peronally believe there a sound "Principles" that teaches us the structure of foundation that makes up JKD. The problem is where us Instructor teach "THEIR" third stage of cultvation. Which is dissolving the principles that one has learned. When JKD is learned in this matter, you'll find yourself or the root to your own ignorance. But don't teach your student where "IT" has taking you. Only the first two stages!

1) Learn The Principles
2) Abide By The Principles
3) Dissolve The Principles


Great Training To Everyone, Have A Great Weekend 

John McNabney


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## James Kovacich

Danny2712 said:


> I dont think Jeet Kune Do should even exist...or at least not have been given a name but i guess thats imossible. Its a concept to live your martial art by and someone else trying to teach you THEIR own personal martial arts is...lacking of your OWN content. why put someone elses practices to use if they only work for them? let alone study them religiously..its so hard to find a true martial artist around here. in AUS anyway.....why does there have to be a turth to "JKD" that needs to be revealed. If you wish to reveal the truth of it then study yourself


Being someone with a connection to the Oakland school I can understand "why" in your part of the world "you" see what "you" do. This isn't a shot at you. I just know there is more than meets the eye.


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## James Kovacich

simplicity said:


> I agree and disagree with this last statement. Yes, Jeet Kune Do is about you discovery you or you looking in a mirror and reflecting on what you see. Now I have trained with many OBLS and I'm a 2nd Generation Instructor. I peronally believe there a sound "Principles" that teaches us the structure of foundation that makes up JKD. The problem is where us Instructor teach "THEIR" third stage of cultvation. Which is dissolving the principles that one has learned. When JKD is learned in this matter, you'll find yourself or the root to your own ignorance. But don't teach your student where "IT" has taking you. Only the first two stages!
> 
> 1) Learn The Principles
> 2) Abide By The Principles
> 3) Dissolve The Principles
> 
> 
> Great Training To Everyone, Have A Great Weekend
> 
> John McNabney


 
Whats up bro? 
James


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## simplicity

Whaz up my Brother!  


John


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## Atlanta-Kenpo

I am by no means a expert on JKD although I do have some (very little)experience with the system since I train and Francis Fongs place for about a year.  I am a Ed Parker American Kenpo guy  (since 1991) and JKD and EPAK felt the very similar to me during my training.  My take on that is that EPAK is what I have always trained in and no matter what I do that muscle memory will always come out in my motion.  Dr Ron Chapel has stated on several occasion on the EPAK board that EPAK and JKD are very similar from a concept point of view and to that I agree. That makes sense to me since Bruce Lee and Ed Parker did share quite a bit of training time together.  From what I gather about JKD it is all about bringing the best out of yourself and that is no different they any other art.

Anyhow, my point that I am trying to make here is this.  JKD and Kenpo do have something even more similar and that it the politics/bs.  I have read this entire poost and I could have swore I was on the EPAK board.  Some people look at Bruce Lee the same way that they did Ed Parker and just as Bruce Lee taught different people differnt stuff so did Ed Parker  Anyhow, I guess now that MMA and BJJ are hip when the Gracies died there will be the same politics within that group as well.  It is such a shame because so much more could be gained from ourselves without all the bs.


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## simplicity

I agree that there may be BS in both method's, from people in  both. But trust me EPAK is nothing like Bruce Lee's Jeet Kune Do, thats a pretty bold statement there. There were alot of Ed's student that jumped boat to train with Bruce Lee. They call them "Turn Coats" back in the day, Bob Bremer, Dan Inosanto, Jerry Poteet, Peter Jacobs, Steve Golden, Daniel Lee. To name a few. The arts are like night and day. Thought Bruce Lee and Ed Parker were friends that for sure.


Have A Great Weekend and Good Training Too  

John McNabney


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## Zaose

Going to have to agree with Simplicity - I have a black belt in Kenpo and it isn't at all the same as JKD.

Yes, similar principles on certain things, and some techniques appear to be simililar - but once you understand the underlying structure and principles behind them, you come to realize they are, as Simplicity stated, "Night and day".


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## James Kovacich

I think that the similaries they see are the trapping but the trapping isn't the same either. It's good but the footwork messes it up.


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## angelariz

FatDragon said:


> For those who haven't read Teri Tom's book, "The Straight Lead: The Core of Bruce Lee's Jun Fan Jeet Kune Do", I would strongly recommend it. She is a board member of the Bruce Lee Foundation and long time student of, and certified instructor under, Ted Wong (the man who spent more personal time with Bruce than any of the other original students).
> 
> First a quote from Bruce on JKD: "Only one of 10,000 can handle it. It is complete martial art. Complete offensive attacks. It is silly to think almost anyone can learn it."
> 
> Ted Wong asked Bruce what he meant in that quote. Bruce said that most people lack the discipline to learn the simple techniques found in JKD, and keep practicing those techniques over and over and over again, knowing that you will never achieve true perfection. Bruce said the average martial arts student is more confident in learning stances, punches, and set patterns of attack and defense. But when it comes time to use this in a real fight, they are defeated by their own "classical mess".
> 
> Here are some things from the book that reveal the truth of JKD. After reading, you will understand that most of the schools claiming to teach JKD today are completely bogus. In fact, in reading the first statement you can see that one of the most famous JKD "instructors" has bastardized Bruce's system.
> 
> "JKD is NOT kali, escrima, or "27" arts"
> 
> For over 30 years, certain so-called JKD instructors have been teaching techniques that were never developed or practiced by Bruce Lee. In some cases, they have taken certain arts like kali and escrima, and misrepresented them as JKD. _Nowhere _in Bruce Lee's writings will you find notes on kali or escrima techniques. In fact, nowhere in Bruce Lee's private notes will you find an in-depth analysis of any arts other than Western fencing and boxing, and in earlier years, Wing Chun. If he briefly mentioned other arts, it was to understand their strengths and shortcomings, so that he could find ways to defeat them. There is no such thing as "JKD blend", as some instructors have claimed.
> 
> "JKD is not Wing Chun"
> 
> JKD is NOT a modified version of Wing Chun, as some have misrepresented it. Yes, Bruce initially studied Wing Chun. But remember, this was early in his development as a fighter. Anyone who's seen backyard training footage of Bruce knows that, by the late 60's, he'd traded his Wing Chun dummy for the heavy bag.
> 
> As noted in a letter to William Cheung (note: she is referring to a letter mentioned in an earlier part of the book), Bruce had stopped practicing Wing Chun by 1967. Some Wing Chun instructors like to claim that Wing Chun is the foundation of Jeet Kune Do and that Bruce merely expanded upon it. WRONG! He had all but _abandoned _it. Its shortcomings are what forced him to look for a completely different way of fighting.  All of this is clearly documented in Bruce's letter to Cheung. JKD is different from Wing Chun structurally, mechanically, the footwork, etc.
> 
> "JKD is not boxing"
> 
> While Bruce may have discarded Wing Chun for the western arts of fencing and boxing, JKD is not a simplified version of those arts either. To the untrained eye, it may appear as though Jeet Kune Do is nothing more than a fancy name for boxing or kickboxing. This is a common misconception not helped by the fact that, for years, certain people have been teaching what is essentially kickboxing and passing it off as JKD. A few of the things seperating JKD from boxing/kickboxing is the stance, strong side forward, thumbs up punching techniques, range of fighting, etc.
> 
> "Having No Form" versus Having "No-Form"
> 
> Over the years many have misinterpreted Bruce's words regarding "no way as way". They practice and teach whatever and then call it JKD. As a result, the actual techniques that Bruce developed are being lost. Failure to master the basic laws of leverage, body position, balance, footwork, and so forth is what Bruce termed "having no form". In other words, ignorance. "No-form", on the other hand, is that level of executing techniques to such perfection that doing so no longer requires thought. (As in the quote from Enter The Dragon..."when there is an opening, _I _do not hit, it hits all by itself").
> 
> JKD is both a philosophy _AND _a system that Bruce continued to refine until his untimely death. Over the years, some have misinterpreted Bruce's words regarding personal expression to mean "anything goes"-that by taking a little bit of this and a little of that from many different arts, they are then practicing JKD. Ironically, this leads to the very surface knowledge and mechanical conditioning that Bruce was railing against.
> 
> And for further evidence of Bruce being against the incorporation of other arts into his JKD system, refer to page 50 of Commentaries on the Martial Way and read the tale of X and Y. That was taken from a letter written by Bruce to his student Jerry Poteet, who wanted to mix JKD drills with kenpo karate. Obviously, Bruce objected.


Terri Tom wrote one book most of the guys didn't read..
Guro Dan has written volumes that all jkd players study. Terri Tom goes by TW JKD. Ted Wong only learned what Sijo taught him. He didn't explore other arts. Therefore in my opinion this post is disrespectful to people like my Sifu Paul Vunak that went out and fought fought fought, real street fights and encouraged us to explore arts with other coaches and fight many people.
Who did Terri Tom fight? Where did she put her *** on the line in the streets ?

Sifu Paul Vunak put in work and has a real street rep. Ask anyone that rolls or has rolled with PFS.  I take my history of JKD from Guro Dan's students and PFS instructors world wide that test the systems against other arts like BJJ, Catch Wrestlers, Boxers, Judo, Karate, Japanese Ju Jutsu, Eskrima, Kali, Fencing....yes we train against and learn from players of many disciplines because the truth of combat is NOT FOUND in Terri Tom's book. It comes from training and fighting with fighters.


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