# My experience with American kenpo



## Kickboxer101 (Jul 12, 2016)

Now this isn't a post to bash the style because I do believe kenpo is a great and effective style. I'm simply commenting on the club I trained at which was not good and just not a nice place and I wanted to share my experiences. So I hope no kenpo people or traditional martial artists take offence.

But the school I trained at it felt more like a cult. If any of the higher students who'd been there a while missed even 1 lesson they'd talk so much trash about them behind their back. One of the assistant instructors didnt come one night because it was his mums birthday and they were so nasty about that calling him a mummy's boy and an idiot etc.

Also one thing I didnt like was the hero worship they give to the higher level belts I mean they talk about them like their gods and can't do anything wrong. I know some may not find this a big deal but it just made me cringe.

The main problem though was it was a high amount of...well not bullying but not any consideration. Like when practicing techniques they'd hit hard literally full contact to the groin and if they were doing that and the student moved or flinched they'd get told off for it. 

There was one black belt there a young guy 22 he was at the time a 2nd dan and he was a horrible person if someone had upset him he'd beat them up with the techniques hitting 100%. It was kind if knowledge if he was upset try and avoid him in line because he'd go hard even if it wasnt you who'd upset him. Another time a guy threw an attack for a techique and it wasnt a great attack because I think the guy was nervous about getting smacked so he didnt commit and that the guy annoyed and instead of either adjusting and making it work or asking him to do it again he simply booted him hard in the groin and said do the attack or you'll get that. 

The worst thing I saw from him through was in sparring he was sparring a teenage student about 15 maybe and he got caught with a kick that knocked him. Instead of smiling and saying good job he simply walked over in no stance and threw a hard punch in the kids face not even sparring like just like he was pissed and wanted to hurt him.

Not long after that I quit. It was just not a nice atmosphere and I was constantly on edge. It has soured me on traditional martial arts. I do understand that most schools are not like that at all but yeah it wasn't a good place but I did enjoy the style. Just thought I'd share my experiences.


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## Buka (Jul 12, 2016)

I don't think this has anything to do with Kenpo. Probably shouldn't have been in the thread title.
I know, I know, it was a Kenpo school, but you probably get my point.

I'm sorry you had to through a place like that, it kind of sucks. But you rose above it. Dude, that's awesome!


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## Blindside (Jul 12, 2016)

Sounds like that guy was an *** and the dojo had a bad atmosphere.  Good for you for getting out.


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## Kickboxer101 (Jul 12, 2016)

Buka said:


> I don't think this has anything to do with Kenpo. Probably shouldn't have been in the thread title.
> I know, I know, it was a Kenpo school, but you probably get my point.
> 
> I'm sorry you had to through a place like that, it kind of sucks. But you rose above it. Dude, that's awesome!



I agree with you I thought that just after I'd posted it and tried to edit it but it seems you can't edit titles on here. But as I stated I have nothing against the art at all. I probably should've called it something like my prior martial art experience or something,


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## Kickboxer101 (Jul 12, 2016)

Blindside said:


> Sounds like that guy was an *** and the dojo had a bad atmosphere.  Good for you for getting out.


It was a shame because most of the guys there were decent and the head instructor was a good guy but that second dan was his first ever student and first ever white- black belt he trained personally and he did try and control him but the guy had a big ego


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## Touch Of Death (Jul 12, 2016)

It's like with real life. Rich people's kids can be A-holes, and as a school owner, you are going to want to cater to rich people's kids; so, you gotta walk a fine line, knowing that if you lean too far, either way, you can lose your business.


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## moonhill99 (Jul 12, 2016)

Kickboxer101 said:


> Now this isn't a post to bash the style because I do believe kenpo is a great and effective style. I'm simply commenting on the club I trained at which was not good and just not a nice place and I wanted to share my experiences. So I hope no kenpo people or traditional martial artists take offence.
> 
> But the school I trained at it felt more like a cult. If any of the higher students who'd been there a while missed even 1 lesson they'd talk so much trash about them behind their back. One of the assistant instructors didnt come one night because it was his mums birthday and they were so nasty about that calling him a mummy's boy and an idiot etc.
> 
> ...



Wow it sound like your school is really bad.

You really should report it. It hard to seem school would be that bad and what is going on.

You really should report it if it is this bad.


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## Touch Of Death (Jul 12, 2016)

moonhill99 said:


> Wow it sound like your school is really bad.
> 
> You really should report it. It hard to seem school would be that bad and what is going on.
> 
> You really should report it if it is this bad.


To the karate school police?


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## PhotonGuy (Jul 12, 2016)

Touch Of Death said:


> To the karate school police?


Well from what I read in this thread it might be possible to hit the school with a lawsuit.


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## Tames D (Jul 12, 2016)

PhotonGuy said:


> Well from what I read in this thread it might be possible to hit the school with a lawsuit.


What would the charges be? Making fun of people behind their backs? Being rude? Organizing a Clique? 
I see a huge monetary settlement and jail time.


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## Blindside (Jul 12, 2016)

Tames D said:


> What would the charges be? Making fun of people behind their backs? Being rude? Organizing a Clique?
> I see a huge monetary settlement and jail time.



Being mean and hurting feelings.  I mean, thats chargeable right?


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## Tames D (Jul 12, 2016)

PhotonGuy said:


> Well from what I read in this thread it might be possible to hit the school with a lawsuit.


Not unless a teenage karate expert got out of control.


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## Tez3 (Jul 13, 2016)

PhotonGuy said:


> Well from what I read in this thread it might be possible to hit the school with a lawsuit.



I daresay in some places you could do that, I've watched Judge Judy LOL but it's very unlikely that if that if this were in the UK (or where the OP lives, not the UK) you could either take it to court (cost you a fortune even if it were a viable case) or you can 'report' it.  Karma though will probably sort it, at some point especially in martial arts one comes across someone bigger/stronger/skilled who 'sorts' out the bullies.


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## PhotonGuy (Jul 13, 2016)

Tames D said:


> Not unless a teenage karate expert got out of control.
> View attachment 19979


Well according to the thread it appears a 22 year old karate expert is out of control.


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## Dylan9d (Jul 13, 2016)

It made me laugh and made me think how much people value their belts and titles, its pathetic.

My teacher was called Guru Besar by the outside world, which means Grandmaster, but for me he was just Oom Jim (uncle Jim).

The only title im proud of in my life is the one of "dad" or "daddy".


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## Michael Loughrie12343 (Jul 13, 2016)

The objective and job of an instructor is to make every student better than himself or herself. Clearly these instructors think their students should never become better than them, but they are wrong! The way martial arts evolve is by instructors passing on techniques they are not able to do, but they see if their students can.


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## Kickboxer101 (Jul 13, 2016)

Michael Loughrie12343 said:


> The objective and job of an instructor is to make every student better than himself or herself. Clearly these instructors think their students should never become better than them, but they are wrong! The way martial arts evolve is by instructors passing on techniques they are not able to do, but they see if their students can.


No just the one guy the head instructor was a great guy he was a good teacher a decent guy. A bit arrogant but well he was a 7th dan, a former soldier and a police officer I guess there's bound to be a bit of arrogance there but he was fine and a guy I do still have a lot of respect for


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## Michael Loughrie12343 (Jul 13, 2016)

Yes, but he did teach the other person, who was a complete idiot and jerk!


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## Touch Of Death (Jul 13, 2016)

Michael Loughrie12343 said:


> Yes, but he did teach the other person, who was a complete idiot and jerk!


Idiots and jerks take karate lessons, too.


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## Kickboxer101 (Jul 13, 2016)

Touch Of Death said:


> Idiots and jerks take karate lessons, too.


Exactly I've never bought into this thing that martial arts turn absoloute scumbags into angels. Sure some people can end up being better people but if you're already such a horrible person. I do remember a scene in the movie perfect weapon when the main character had been fighting a lot so went to kenpo and years later some guy hit his brother so he beat up the guy badly and nearly killed him. I remember the quote from the father.

"I sent you to martial arts to chanel your aggression and this is what you've learnt, you haven't changed only difference is now you're dangerous"

I think it does happen like that with some


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## Tez3 (Jul 13, 2016)

Kickboxer101 said:


> No just the one guy the head instructor was a great guy he was a good teacher a decent guy. A bit arrogant but well he was a 7th dan, a former soldier and a police officer* I guess there's bound to be a bit of* *arrogance there* but he was fine and a guy I do still have a lot of respect for



Why do you say that? Do you think senior grades or police officers or soldiers are bound to be arrogant then? I would have said if he was arrogant it was his nature nothing else.


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## Touch Of Death (Jul 13, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> Why do you say that? Do you think senior grades or police officers or soldiers are bound to be arrogant then? I would have said if he was arrogant it was his nature nothing else.


There is an us verses them mentality, police officers naturally fall into.


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## Tez3 (Jul 13, 2016)

Touch Of Death said:


> There is an us verses them mentality, police officers naturally fall into.



Not really in my experience here in UK, watching the news though from America though it's certainly very different from here.


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## Kickboxer101 (Jul 13, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> Why do you say that? Do you think senior grades or police officers or soldiers are bound to be arrogant then? I would have said if he was arrogant it was his nature nothing else.


I know plenty of police officers who trained at the school because he was the head instructor and they all had similar types of arrogance and I'm not saying that as a bad thing. I remember one of them who'd been in the police a very long time said that police need a bit of arrogance they need to believe in themselves so when a situation kicks off they're not going to be timid. I also remember being told being arrogant isn't always a bad thing it's what you do with that arrogance if you use it to bully people and put them down and say how much better you are that's bad but if you use it just to believe in yourself and know you can handle anything that comes your way that's not a bad thing.


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## WaterGal (Jul 13, 2016)

Touch Of Death said:


> Idiots and jerks take karate lessons, too.



Sure, but the teacher is not under any obligation to a) teach them, and b) make them a high-ranking senior student.  Sometimes, it's better for the school if you weed out idiots and jerks, because they bring the whole school down.


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## WaterGal (Jul 13, 2016)

Kickboxer101 said:


> I know plenty of police officers who trained at the school because he was the head instructor and they all had similar types of arrogance and I'm not saying that as a bad thing. I remember one of them who'd been in the police a very long time said that police need a bit of arrogance they need to believe in themselves so when a situation kicks off they're not going to be timid. I also remember being told being arrogant isn't always a bad thing it's what you do with that arrogance if you use it to bully people and put them down and say how much better you are that's bad but if you use it just to believe in yourself and know you can handle anything that comes your way that's not a bad thing.



There's a difference between being confident and being arrogant.  Confidence means that you believe in yourself and are not timid, which is an important character trait for a police officer, soldier, or anyone in a line of work like that.  Arrogance, on the other hand, means that you think that you're _better _than other people, that other people are beneath you or less important than you.  I don't think that's a great trait for anyone to have.


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## Touch Of Death (Jul 13, 2016)

WaterGal said:


> Sure, but the teacher is not under any obligation to a) teach them, and b) make them a high-ranking senior student.  Sometimes, it's better for the school if you weed out idiots and jerks, because they bring the whole school down.


That may be why the parents are bringing the kid to you in the first place. If discipline is not something you offer, I get your position.


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## Tez3 (Jul 13, 2016)

WaterGal said:


> There's a difference between being confident and being arrogant.  Confidence means that you believe in yourself and are not timid, which is an important character trait for a police officer, soldier, or anyone in a line of work like that.  Arrogance, on the other hand, means that you think that you're _better _than other people, that other people are beneath you or less important than you.  I don't think that's a great trait for anyone to have.



Absolutely spot on. If you are a police officer or soldier the confidence is there mostly because of solid training which means you can cope with every situation that is thrown at you. Arrogance gets you no one, no one wants to work with or be partnered with an arrogant person. Being arrogant, as Watergal says, is thinking you are better than others and that leads to  arrogant people causing trouble which no one wants. Working with someone who thinks he's better than others leads to confrontations when you're supposed to be calming situations done. Quite honestly arrogant soldiers and police officers don't last that long.


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## Michael Loughrie12343 (Jul 13, 2016)

Martial arts train the mind, body, and spirit. Clearly this black belt wasn't trained in either. I mean, walking up with no stance and punching right into the face after getting kicked right in the groin? That's not skill, that's a sucker punch. Also, the right thing to do is to say "Nice one" and resume. If you guys believe that guy was a legit black belt, I don't know what to do. What's even more crazy is he's been a black belt for a few years, due to his 2nd Degree Black Belt!


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## Touch Of Death (Jul 13, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> Not really in my experience here in UK, watching the news though from America though it's certainly very different from here.


Maybe it is different, over their, but over here, every civilian has their own opinion about how the police should go about doing their jobs, like shooting them in the foot, instead of aiming for center mass, but again, if you guys are all on the same page, more power to ya.


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## drop bear (Jul 14, 2016)

Bobby Joe Blyth is pretty much the poster child for this crazy martial cult situation.


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## Tames D (Jul 14, 2016)

PhotonGuy said:


> Well according to the thread it appears a 22 year old karate expert is out of control.





PhotonGuy said:


> Well according to the thread it appears a 22 year old karate expert is out of control.


You are absolutely correct. There is NO such thing as a teenage karate expert.


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## Tez3 (Jul 14, 2016)

Touch Of Death said:


> Maybe it is different, over their, but over here, every civilian has their own opinion about how the police should go about doing their jobs, like shooting them in the foot, instead of aiming for center mass, but again, if you guys are all on the same page, more power to ya.



On the whole the police and the community are on the same page here, the police serve the community and they do it in many ways not all to do with crime.
The selection process to be a police officer is extremely vigorous, with mental and physical testing to weed out those not suited then the training which lasts for two years is thorough and equips officers with the right attitude and skills.
Now of course you can't weed out martial arts students before they begin in the same way, you can during though if you see traits coming through you don't like the look of, arrogance and bullying for instance. You can certainly include during the training how a student should conduct themselves while training AND back that up by not allowing inappropriate behaviour such as the student walking over and hitting the other one ( if he did that immediately after a groin shot I'd say that showed he had no balls). A martial arts instructor's job is not to instil discipline in a child's life that is the parent's job, we can back up parents, we can teach students how to behave in the dojo and how to conduct themselves as martial artists but we aren't the parents nor should we to expected be. We teach martial arts and any life skills that come from that are added bonuses.


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## PhotonGuy (Jul 14, 2016)

Tames D said:


> You are absolutely correct. There is NO such thing as a teenage karate expert.


There is from my experience but in this particular story we're talking about a 22 year old karate expert whose out of control and whose a bully.


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## WaterGal (Jul 14, 2016)

Touch Of Death said:


> That may be why the parents are bringing the kid to you in the first place. If discipline is not something you offer, I get your position.



Martial arts training _can _be a good way for people to learn better self-discipline, leadership skills, confidence, sportsmanship, etc.  But the student has to be open to that.  They have to be willing to change.  And some people aren't.  Some people are just bullies or jerks, and like being that way.  They think it's funny to punch someone in the face, or talk trash about other students behind their backs, or whatever.  You can try to get them to change, but if they won't.... eventually, you'll have to make a choice - you can kick them out (either directly or by calling them out on their crap enough that they stop showing up), or you can continue to train them and have them create a toxic environment that runs off all your other students who aren't the same way as them.


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## moonhill99 (Jul 16, 2016)

Touch Of Death said:


> There is an us verses them mentality, police officers naturally fall into.



You been watching way too many cop shows. The aggressive cops are more likely to get into fights than cops that are very calm and relax.

Any aggressive body posture, getting into the guys face, yelling, talking really loud and being hothead are more likely to get into fights and escalate the situation.

Many cops now are taking de-escalation training class.

If your martial arts instructor is teaching you to stand less than one feet from the bad guy and yelling and talking so loud for everyone on the street to hear you!!! Well you better leave that class ASAP. Or you could escalate the situation and the bad guy may get really mad and say okay that's fight.


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## Touch Of Death (Jul 16, 2016)

moonhill99 said:


> You been watching way too many cop shows. The aggressive cops are more likely to get into fights than cops that are very calm and relax.
> 
> Any aggressive body posture, getting into the guys face, yelling, talking really loud and being hothead are more likely to get into fights and escalate the situation.
> 
> ...


Actually they teach that is criminal justice courses. The logic is that if you surround and inundate a guy, or gal, with nothing but criminals they start to see the world a little differently. I am sure it would never happen to you, of course.


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## Ironbear24 (Jul 18, 2016)

I think you should try another kenpo dojo. Ed Parker kenpo (or any kenpo) can be very great but like any place it needs to have good instructors.


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## Ironbear24 (Jul 18, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> Not really in my experience here in UK, watching the news though from America though it's certainly very different from here.



Growing up Latino I remember my grandpa telling me to treat cops like they are mad dogs. No sudden movements, don't run because they love to chase. Just stay still, nod and cooperate and hope they let you go.

I imagine it might be similar for other ethnic groups.


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## Tez3 (Jul 18, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> Growing up Latino I remember my grandpa telling me to treat cops like they are mad dogs. No sudden movements, don't run because they love to chase. Just stay still, nod and cooperate and hope they let you go.
> 
> I imagine it might be similar for other ethnic groups.



That frankly is just nasty.


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## Ironbear24 (Jul 18, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> That frankly is just nasty.



They are not all bad of course. The issue is that in any group of people, it's the loudest ones who people notice, because of this the nice cops don't get recognized much while the horrible ones do.

We also have many cops and in general social service workers who are very overworked and get little to no vacation time. So they get so stressed out and like all humans, eventually snap.


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## moonhill99 (Jul 18, 2016)

Touch Of Death said:


> Actually they teach that is criminal justice courses. The logic is that if you surround and inundate a guy, or gal, with nothing but criminals they start to see the world a little differently. I am sure it would never happen to you, of course.



I'm not sure what you mean. A police officer dealing with criminal is not same with public dealing with criminal.

If some bad guy breaks into my home or some bad guy tries to rob me I'm not going to play the calm and relax and hope he backs of me by playing the de-escalation.

If you the public well you want to scare the bad guy to run away and well cops don't want him to run away. This goal is very different from cops trying to talk to bad guy or put cuffs on him and not to piss the bad guy more than he his.

If some bad guy is breaking in my home I"m going me screaming and yelling and running around nude with pipe or knife!!! So bad guy things I'm high on drugs or escape a mental hospital and I'm crazy.

Also robbery or burglary is going be different game than family domestic or dispute. Where by talking loud the other person will than counter that by talking even louder. A hothead person in family domestic or dispute be better by de-escalation or leaving the location. Otherwise fight will happen if he you come across combative.


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## Touch Of Death (Jul 18, 2016)

moonhill99 said:


> I'm not sure what you mean. A police officer dealing with criminal is not same with public dealing with criminal.
> 
> If some bad guy breaks into my home or some bad guy tries to rob me I'm not going to play the calm and relax and hope he backs of me by playing the de-escalation.
> 
> ...


Fine, but a persons view of the world, has nothing to do with how you act around the public, unless you can't control yourself.


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## Tames D (Jul 18, 2016)

moonhill99 said:


> If some bad guy is breaking in my home I"m going me screaming and yelling and running around nude with pipe or knife!!! So bad guy things I'm high on drugs or escape a mental hospital and I'm crazy.


Personally, I think that will get you shot.


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## Ironbear24 (Jul 18, 2016)

Tames D said:


> Personally, I think that will get you shot.


is moonhill serious or trolling?


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## Blindside (Jul 19, 2016)

Honestly it would probably work quite well.  Don't mess with crazy.


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## Tames D (Jul 19, 2016)

Blindside said:


> Honestly it would probably work quite well.  Don't mess with crazy.


Not in my circle. You'd get your *** blown off.


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## Tames D (Jul 19, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> is moonhill serious or trolling?


I don't think he's trolling. I think it's more than that.


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## Ironbear24 (Jul 19, 2016)

Tames D said:


> I don't think he's trolling. I think it's more than that.



Well in that case he should learn some real self defense. Otherwise he is going to be seriously hurt or worse. Acting like a lunatic will only get you shot or beat up by burglers.


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## Paul_D (Jul 19, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> Acting like a lunatic will only get you shot or beat up by burglers.



As I am in the UK I will put to one side getting shot, as that is not a discussion I am qualified to talk about, but I am curious to know why you think acting like a lunatic get you beaten up by burglars?  

Burglars (and similar other criminals, muggers etc) want to get what they want by the easiest means necessary.  If they break into a house and are faced by a naked lunatic waving a knife and acting erratically they are faced with two options (well two options in the abscence of fire arms) they can either tackle said lunatic and attempt to beat him up, putting their own safety at risk, or they can leave and go find another house that is going to contain an easier victim less likely to put up a fight.


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## Ironbear24 (Jul 19, 2016)

Paul_D said:


> As I am in the UK I will put to one side getting shot, as that is not a discussion I am qualified to talk about, but I am curious to know why you think acting like a lunatic get you beaten up by burglars?
> 
> Burglars (and similar other criminals, muggers etc) want to get what they want by the easiest means necessary.  If they break into a house and are faced by a naked lunatic waving a knife and acting erratically they are faced with two options (well two options in the abscence of fire arms) they can either tackle said lunatic and attempt to beat him up, putting their own safety at risk, or they can leave and go find another house that is going to contain an easier victim less likely to put up a fight.



If have a gun that would scare the **** out of me and I'd start shooting. If no gun is present I'd probably beat the guy with a pipe or something. I seriously doubt burglars go into the place with no weapon.


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## Paul_D (Jul 19, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> If have a gun that would scare the **** out of me and I'd start shooting. If no gun is present I'd probably best the guy with a pipe or something. I seriously doubt burglars go into the place with no weapon.


You'd rather fight the guy than leave and go find an easier house to break into?


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## Ironbear24 (Jul 19, 2016)

Paul_D said:


> You'd rather fight the guy than leave and go find an easier house to break into?



If a guy is coming at me with a knife I'm going to have to protect myself. If I turn and run he could chase me and possibly stab me.


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## Tez3 (Jul 19, 2016)

Paul_D said:


> You'd rather fight the guy than leave and go find an easier house to break into?



Oh dear you are going to start *that* discussion again


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## Ironbear24 (Jul 19, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> Oh dear you are going to start *that* discussion again



Oh no! I'm not doing this again.

I'm just going to say this. I wouldn't be robbing a house in the first place so this situation would never happen.


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## Paul_D (Jul 19, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> Oh dear you are going to start *that* discussion again


No, I'm just asking as I am interested in ironbears thought process.


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## Paul_D (Jul 19, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> If a guy is coming at me with a knife I'm going to have to protect myself. If I turn and run he could chase me and possibly stab me.


There is that side to it yes, thank you.


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## drop bear (Jul 19, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> If a guy is coming at me with a knife I'm going to have to protect myself. If I turn and run he could chase me and possibly stab me.



Security guard trick for break ins. Make a lot of noise and give the guy an exit.

Then they will generally run.

Apparently one of the advantages of a shot gun is that it sounds like a shot gun.


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## WaterGal (Jul 19, 2016)

Paul_D said:


> You'd rather fight the guy than leave and go find an easier house to break into?



I think it depends a lot on the criminal, his mindset and the situation.  Maybe the robber is mentally unstable or on drugs - he may react in all kinds of ways.  Or maybe he thinks that he has a better chance of getting away if he hurts you first.

There was a case in my town where a guy tried to fight a robber who was stealing his TV set, and the robber stabbed him and ran away. As far as I know, he was never caught.


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## Ironbear24 (Jul 19, 2016)

drop bear said:


> Security guard trick for break ins. Make a lot of noise and give the guy an exit.
> 
> Then they will generally run.
> 
> Apparently one of the advantages of a shot gun is that it sounds like a shot gun.



When me and some friends were taking a short cut home from school we would cut through a farm. One day the owner saw us and shot a gun into the air. We ran so fast and jumped his fence, then we never took that shortcut again.


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## moonhill99 (Jul 19, 2016)

Touch Of Death said:


> Fine, but a persons view of the world, has nothing to do with how you act around the public, unless you can't control yourself.



What are you talking about?

please bad guy can you please leave my house or not rob me? Please ? I'm hard liberal and I will not shoot you or beat you up at all!!!  all I want is you to please leave.  Here is hippie peace sign now go way bad guy!!!

You really think this will work?

Or guy that appears high on drugs or crazy mental person running around nude with knife.

Well obvious a group of armed thugs breaking in it will not matter how you play the game. A group of thugs looking for home invasion it will not matter if you come across like bleeding heart liberal or crazy mental person running around nude with knife. If you don't have gun or cannot hide or runway than there is not lot you can do and you may get shot.

But I'm talking the average one bad guy scenario.  Well this would not work on group of armed thugs trying to rob you or break in.


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## moonhill99 (Jul 19, 2016)

WaterGal said:


> I think it depends a lot on the criminal, his mindset and the situation.  Maybe the robber is mentally unstable or on drugs - he may react in all kinds of ways.  Or maybe he thinks that he has a better chance of getting away if he hurts you first.
> 
> There was a case in my town where a guy tried to fight a robber who was stealing his TV set, and the robber stabbed him and ran away. As far as I know, he was never caught.



Most of the break in my city are poor people, homeless and and drug addicts. But there have been thugs going around doing breaks ins and home invasion.

We have over 4,000 break in year in my city in year a lot better than older city I use to live in. Where we had over 15,000 break in year.

Going Steven Seagal or crazy mental person is not good idea with group of thugs. With one person okay, but with group you may get shot and it lot harder.

There is a reason why cops order robbers and burglars down at gun point with face down with leg crossed and palms up.

Not the Hollywood  put your hand up onto the wall and do not move well I cuff you.

no I was talking the average one bad guy scenario.

Not lot you can do with many people as more there is better you have to be and more could go walk.


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## moonhill99 (Jul 19, 2016)

WaterGal said:


> I think it depends a lot on the criminal, his mindset and the situation.  Maybe the robber is mentally unstable or on drugs - he may react in all kinds of ways.  Or maybe he thinks that he has a better chance of getting away if he hurts you first.
> 
> There was a case in my town where a guy tried to fight a robber who was stealing his TV set, and the robber stabbed him and ran away. As far as I know, he was never caught.



This is why I said in other thread if you go after bad guy with baseball bat or try to fight him you better have training and know how to fight him!!! Or he will grab your baseball bat and take it away from you and use it on you.

And baseball bats are really easy to be taken out of persons hand.

This is why I hate baseball bats and like stick, hanbo or baton way better. It lot harder to grab and taken out of persons had than a baseball bat.


----------



## moonhill99 (Jul 19, 2016)

Paul_D said:


> You'd rather fight the guy than leave and go find an easier house to break into?



You be surprised lot of cases where bad guys ran way from kids. A bad guy at front door and trying get in and see kid home alone and runway.

Lot of people breaking in do not want to get caught or want witness or take chances. Lot of break in are doing the day when people are at work.

There been cases where people turn on light or gone to front door and the bad guy runway.

Hollywood crime and real life crime like comparing apples to oranges.


----------



## Touch Of Death (Jul 19, 2016)

moonhill99 said:


> What are you talking about?
> 
> please bad guy can you please leave my house or not rob me? Please ? I'm hard liberal and I will not shoot you or beat you up at all!!!  all I want is you to please leave.  Here is hippie peace sign now go way bad guy!!!
> 
> ...


That is nice, but it has nothing to do with what I was talking about. I was still stuck on Law Officers having an us against them mentality.


----------



## moonhill99 (Jul 19, 2016)

Touch Of Death said:


> That is nice, but it has nothing to do with what I was talking about. I was still stuck on Law Officers having an us against them mentality.



Yea it was one of the poster that turn it around how the public deal with criminals vs police deal with criminals is very different. Just like other factors one criminals vs many criminals is in side your home or on the street will have different game plan.

Most self defense class teach you to runway or scare the bad guy away. So this why I thought it was strange the poster not hear yelling or screaming in martial arts class or self defense where he goes to.Like what city or area he goes to that there is no yelling or screaming in his martial arts class or self defense.

Well obvious police officer dealing with some robber or burglar you going to be laying face down on the ground at gun point with your leg crossed and palms up. 

But I think you where getting at is good cop vs bad cop what works on criminal being good cop or bad cop.

Lot of police training today are teaching de-escalation training than how police did things in the 90's and before.


----------



## moonhill99 (Jul 19, 2016)

Touch Of Death said:


> That is nice, but it has nothing to do with what I was talking about. I was still stuck on Law Officers having an us against them mentality.



Also lot also dependence on the area of the city, type of officer, department rules and type of call.

A area with low crime, good area, how you talk to officer and the type of officer may deal with the investigation where you standing up not cuffed.

In high crime area and how you talk to the officer you will be cuffed sitting down on the ground or in back seat of the police car well the officer does the investigation.


----------



## Tired_Yeti (Jul 19, 2016)

Kickboxer101 said:


> Now this isn't a post to bash the style because I do believe kenpo is a great and effective style. I'm simply commenting on the club I trained at which was not good and just not a nice place and I wanted to share my experiences. So I hope no kenpo people or traditional martial artists take offence.
> 
> But the school I trained at it felt more like a cult. If any of the higher students who'd been there a while missed even 1 lesson they'd talk so much trash about them behind their back. One of the assistant instructors didnt come one night because it was his mums birthday and they were so nasty about that calling him a mummy's boy and an idiot etc.
> 
> ...



#1 American Kenpo is not a traditional martial art. It's a modern hybrid of ideas. Please don't base your opinion of traditional Okinawan karate on what you saw at your Am. Kenpo dojo.

#2 and more importantly--It's sounds more like you were training in Ameri Do Te. In which case, it was appropriate for the instructor to kick students in the jewels. Master Ken says you should always re-stomp the groin.


Sent from my iPhone 6+ using Tapatalk


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## Kickboxer101 (Jul 20, 2016)

Tired_Yeti said:


> #1 American Kenpo is not a traditional martial art. It's a modern hybrid of ideas. Please don't base your opinion of traditional Okinawan karate on what you saw at your Am. Kenpo dojo.
> 
> #2 and more importantly--It's sounds more like you were training in Ameri Do Te. In which case, it was appropriate for the instructor to kick students in the jewels. Master Ken says you should always re-stomp the groin.
> 
> ...


No I wasn't it was a good school just with one bad person I know you don't like the style but don't use my post as a way to insult the style


----------



## drop bear (Jul 20, 2016)

moonhill99 said:


> This is why I said in other thread if you go after bad guy with baseball bat or try to fight him you better have training and know how to fight him!!! Or he will grab your baseball bat and take it away from you and use it on you.
> 
> And baseball bats are really easy to be taken out of persons hand.
> 
> This is why I hate baseball bats and like stick, hanbo or baton way better. It lot harder to grab and taken out of persons had than a baseball bat.



I have tried it with a nerf bat.  And honestly really easy is not the term i would use.


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## Ironbear24 (Jul 20, 2016)

Tired_Yeti said:


> American Kenpo is not a traditional martial art. It's a modern hybrid of ideas.


----------



## Tez3 (Jul 20, 2016)

Kickboxer101 said:


> No I wasn't it was a good school just with one bad person I know you don't like the style but don't use my post as a way to insult the style



Where was he insulting the style?


----------



## Tired_Yeti (Jul 20, 2016)

Kickboxer101 said:


> No I wasn't it was a good school just with one bad person I know you don't like the style but don't use my post as a way to insult the style



Watch "Enter The Dojo" on YouTube then you'll get the joke. 


Sent from my iPhone 6+ using Tapatalk


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## Tez3 (Jul 20, 2016)

Tired_Yeti said:


> Watch "Enter The Dojo" on YouTube then you'll get the joke.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone 6+ using Tapatalk



The best instructor and best style ever!


----------



## WaterGal (Jul 20, 2016)

moonhill99 said:


> You be surprised lot of cases where bad guys ran way from kids. A bad guy at front door and trying get in and see kid home alone and runway.
> 
> Lot of people breaking in do not want to get caught or want witness or take chances. Lot of break in are doing the day when people are at work.
> 
> There been cases where people turn on light or gone to front door and the bad guy runway.



I think there's a difference between a scenario where the bad guy is not in your house yet, and one where you catch him after he's already in your house.


----------



## Kickboxer101 (Jul 20, 2016)

Tired_Yeti said:


> Watch "Enter The Dojo" on YouTube then you'll get the joke.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone 6+ using Tapatalk


I know what It is and the whole point of it is ameridote is a rubbish martial art


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## Touch Of Death (Jul 20, 2016)

Kickboxer101 said:


> I know what It is and the whole point of it is ameridote is a rubbish martial art


It is a Pho-Art, Like Sinanju.


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## KenpoDave (Jul 20, 2016)

Touch Of Death said:


> It is a Pho-Art, Like Sinanju.



How dare you! Sinanju is the Sun Source of all the martial arts, you pale piece of a pig's ear!


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## Touch Of Death (Jul 20, 2016)

KenpoDave said:


> How dare you! Sinanju is the Sun Source of all the martial arts, you pale piece of a pig's ear!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Did I step on a toe?


----------



## Tez3 (Jul 20, 2016)

moonhill99 said:


> Most self defense class teach you to runway or scare the bad guy away. So this why I thought it was strange the poster not hear yelling or screaming in martial arts class or self defense where he goes to.Like what city or area he goes to that there is no yelling or screaming in his martial arts class or self defense.
> 
> Well obvious police officer dealing with some robber or burglar you going to be laying face down on the ground at gun point with your leg crossed and palms up.
> 
> ...



I don't know what sort of 'self defence' class you go to but it sounds extremely strange much like most of your posts about policing, crime and now self defence which are lurid fantasies. How many people do you think spend the time screaming and shouting as self defence? Some of your sentences in this post make absolutely no sense whatsoever. Police were taught ;de escalation in the nineties and the eighties and the seventies and the sixties, in fact it's always been there. You know nothing absolutely nothing.

I do wish you would stop posting up things you think are true about policing and really aren't.


----------



## geezer (Jul 20, 2016)

Touch Of Death said:


> It is a Pho-Art, Like Sinanju.



It's the art of Vietnamese noodle soup?
Pho - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Perhaps you meant _faux_.
Faux - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

How could you so impugn either Master Ken or Remo Williams?


----------



## Ironbear24 (Jul 20, 2016)

Master Ken vs Brian Boitano. Who would win?


----------



## Touch Of Death (Jul 20, 2016)

geezer said:


> It's the art of Vietnamese noodle soup?
> Pho - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Perhaps you meant _faux_.
> ...


Maybe, maybe...


----------



## Ironbear24 (Jul 20, 2016)

Touch Of Death said:


> Maybe, maybe...



Didn't someone accidentally name their dojo "art of the bisexual"? because they fail at Japanese? Lol.


----------



## Touch Of Death (Jul 20, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> Didn't someone accidentally name their dojo "art of the bisexual"? because they fail at Japanese? Lol.


Yeah, I took a few classes in: Take-one's-dough; The Partial Arts; No-Kan-Doo; Kant-Po; and Ken-Poo.


----------



## Ironbear24 (Jul 20, 2016)

Touch Of Death said:


> Yeah, I took a few classes in: Take-one's-dough; The Partial Arts; No-Kan-Doo; Kant-Po; and Ken-Poo.



We're you trained by Som Phat Gai and his wife Xui Tan sour?


----------



## Touch Of Death (Jul 20, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> We're you trained by Som Phat Gai and his wife Xui Tan sour?


I also did a little Teemkido. There is no Ai in Teemkido.


----------



## Touch Of Death (Jul 20, 2016)

Don't forget Ti-kwan-Leep!....


----------



## moonhill99 (Jul 21, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> I don't know what sort of 'self defence' class you go to but it sounds extremely strange much like most of your posts about policing, crime and now self defence which are lurid fantasies. How many people do you think spend the time screaming and shouting as self defence? Some of your sentences in this post make absolutely no sense whatsoever. Police were taught ;de escalation in the nineties and the eighties and the seventies and the sixties, in fact it's always been there. You know nothing absolutely nothing.
> 
> I do wish you would stop posting up things you think are true about policing and really aren't.



So you are telling me all the martial arts class and self defense class in your area there is no yelling or screaming.

When you execute a attack there is no yelling or screaming?


----------



## moonhill99 (Jul 21, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> I don't know what sort of 'self defence' class you go to but it sounds extremely strange much like most of your posts about policing, crime and now self defence which are lurid fantasies. How many people do you think spend the time screaming and shouting as self defence? Some of your sentences in this post make absolutely no sense whatsoever. Police were taught ;de escalation in the nineties and the eighties and the seventies and the sixties, in fact it's always been there. You know nothing absolutely nothing.
> 
> I do wish you would stop posting up things you think are true about policing and really aren't.



Just before we go any where do you know what de escalation vs escalation means?


----------



## moonhill99 (Jul 21, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> I don't know what sort of 'self defence' class you go to but it sounds extremely strange much like most of your posts about policing, crime and now self defence which are lurid fantasies. How many people do you think spend the time screaming and shouting as self defence? Some of your sentences in this post make absolutely no sense whatsoever. Police were taught ;de escalation in the nineties and the eighties and the seventies and the sixties, in fact it's always been there. You know nothing absolutely nothing.
> 
> I do wish you would stop posting up things you think are true about policing and really aren't.



Have you seen police deal with public? I have. Many times.

Police are not going talk you into handcuffs, there not school councillors or your mom or dad. They give an order and if you do not comply you will be tasered or taken to the ground.

Some officers are more calm and relax than other officers and by two or third not complying than you get tasered or taken to the ground. 


Some officers are more cool doing an investigation standing up and other officers you will be ask to sit down on the ground or be cuffed in back seat of police car well they do the investigation. Well depending on call and other factors play apart and the department.

It was one of posters here saying police officers are aggressive. It was me saying that not enough info to go on. A car chase, foot chase, robbery, burglary, shooting and gun call so on the cops are not going to go around and sit around and that me talk you into cuffs or be bleeding heart liberal hippie. If that was what the poster was getting at the police being too aggressive.

Or cop showing up at car stop , traffic stop,MVA, suspicions person or suspicions vehicle and being aggressive. If that what poster was getting at.


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## moonhill99 (Jul 21, 2016)

Again I thing poster will have to clearly what he means by cops being too aggressive or us vs them.

Some cops are more calm and relax than other cops.

But I never seen cops running around yelling and screaming.  Unless you have weapon or it is fight than cop will will yell and say get down face down on the ground. If that want the poster was getting at or meaning some thing else here.

Like cop showing up at minor call like complaint, dispute, traffic related, car stop, person stop, suspicions person or suspicions vehicle and being very aggressive if that what the poster was getting at.


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## Kickboxer101 (Jul 21, 2016)

Oh boy this is going to get ugly


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## Tez3 (Jul 21, 2016)

[


moonhill99 said:


> So you are telling me all the martial arts class and self defense class in your area there is no yelling or screaming.
> 
> When you execute a attack there is no yelling or screaming?



We are adults, we don't scream like little children, most of my students are trained killers, why would they run around screaming and shouting. In fact why the hell would anyone run around screaming and shouting when they are defending themselves?



moonhill99 said:


> Just before we go any where do you know what de escalation vs escalation means?



funnily enough I do, do you because your ignorance is escalating by the minute.



moonhill99 said:


> Have you seen police deal with public? I have. Many times.



Wow, am I supposed to be impressed, should I bow down to your superior knowledge or should I do what I'm doing now, rolling around laughing at you.



moonhill99 said:


> Police are not going talk you into handcuffs, there not school councillors or your mom or dad. They give an order and if you do not comply you will be tasered or taken to the ground.



Actually where I come the police do indeed 'talk' you into handcuffs, often they aren't even used when taking someone into custody. Police officers are more than used to dealing with situations that require, exceptional social work skills, an arrest at the end of an incident is not what the police are always looking for, which is why here we have street cautions, banning orders etc so that arrests don't always have to happen. The police here don't always 'order' either, that comes after they've asked and someone hasn't complied.



moonhill99 said:


> Some officers are more calm and relax than other officers and by two or third not complying than you get tasered or taken to the ground.



Here you will only be taken to the ground and/or tasered if you have attacked the officers and are violent towards them and others, it's not done as a matter of course.



moonhill99 said:


> It was one of posters here saying police officers are aggressive. It was me saying that not enough info to go on. A car chase, foot chase, robbery, burglary, shooting and gun call so on the cops are not going to go around and sit around and that me talk you into cuffs or *be bleeding heart liberal hippie*. If that was what the poster was getting at the police being too aggressive.



Really? I mean really? You are an illiterate numpty. ( yes that's personal but am really fed up of the lies being posted)



moonhill99 said:


> Or cop showing up at car stop , traffic stop,MVA, suspicions person or suspicions vehicle and being aggressive. If that what poster was getting at.



What the hell are you chuntering on about? You have seen a police stop, you have watched a film, great it makes you an expert on policing around the world, now, do us a favour go get some life experience in the real world and stop posting such utter drivel here on something you know nothing about. I suspect you don't actually know much about policing in your country let alone anyone else's.


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## KenpoDave (Jul 21, 2016)

Touch Of Death said:


> Did I step on a toe?



LOL, no. Have you read the books? If you were to denigrate Sinanju in front of Chiun, you would be severely chastised with such harsh profanities as being compared to body parts of pigs.


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## Kenpoguy123 (Jul 21, 2016)

Yeah that happens in the movies that'd be the guy who the hero sees being a jerk and beats him up because the guy challenges him lol


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## Touch Of Death (Jul 21, 2016)

I knew a marine who fought in Vietnam, hand to hand, sometimes, and he was an advocate of shouting at them before he killed them.


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## Ironbear24 (Jul 21, 2016)

Kiai'ing is different from simply screaming.


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## Ironbear24 (Jul 21, 2016)

Touch Of Death said:


> I knew a marine who fought in Vietnam, hand to hand, sometimes, and he was an advocate of shouting at them before he killed them.



Marines are scary.


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## Tez3 (Jul 21, 2016)

Touch Of Death said:


> I knew a marine who fought in Vietnam, hand to hand, sometimes, and he was an advocate of shouting at them before he killed them.



Loud Yanks.......


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## Xue Sheng (Jul 21, 2016)

moonhill99 said:


> Like what city or area he goes to that there is no yelling or screaming in his martial arts class or self defense..



Pretty much every city and virtually all traditional Chinese martial arts, all Chinese Sports Sanda/Sanshou, all Chinese Police/Military Sanda/Sanshou. Most Aikido classes, virtually all JKD classes, shall I continue......


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## Ironbear24 (Jul 21, 2016)

Xue Sheng said:


> Pretty much every city and virtually all traditional Chinese martial arts, all Chinese Sports Sanda/Sanshou, all Chinese Police/Military Sanda/Sanshou. Most Aikido classes, virtually all JKD classes, shall I continue......



You can add kenpo and Shou shu to that list. We kiai but that is not screaming.


----------



## Xue Sheng (Jul 21, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> You can add kenpo and Shou shu to that list. We kiai but that is not screaming.



The ones I listed do not even kiai.


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## Ironbear24 (Jul 21, 2016)

Xue Sheng said:


> The ones I listed do not even kiai.



JKD doesn't kiai? Bruce lee always did it though.


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## Xue Sheng (Jul 21, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> JKD doesn't kiai? Bruce lee always did it though.



Only in his movies, never in the real world


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## Touch Of Death (Jul 21, 2016)

Yells of the spirit, also indicate your attitude to the enemy. That chit is scary.


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## Flying Crane (Jul 21, 2016)

Touch Of Death said:


> I knew a marine who fought in Vietnam, hand to hand, sometimes, and he was an advocate of shouting at them before he killed them.


What did he shout?  Did he call them names?  Tell them in grisly detain what mayhem and death was about to come?

Did he tell them he would waive his private parts at them, and fart in their general direction?


----------



## Xue Sheng (Jul 21, 2016)

Flying Crane said:


> What did he shout?  Did he call them names?  Tell them in grisly detain what mayhem and death was about to come?
> 
> Did he tell them he would waive his private parts at them, and fart in their general direction?



I am thinking things like "I WILL DELETE YOUR HARD DRIVE!!!!"

"I WILL PUNCH YOU IN THE CHEST, RIP OUT YOUR HEART, SHOW IT TO YOU, and then...THROW IT IN THE BEAN DIP"

and 

*"Your* mother was a hamster, and *your father smelled of elderberries*."


----------



## Tired_Yeti (Jul 21, 2016)

Kickboxer101 said:


> I know what It is and the whole point of it is ameridote is a rubbish martial art



Apparently, you DON'T know what it is. The whole point is that it's a SATIRE. It's FICTION. Ameri Do Te doesn't even exist! The show is a comedy. 

You need to take a deep breath and get a sense of humor! You're wound up way too tight, man.


Sent from my iPhone 6+ using Tapatalk


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## Tired_Yeti (Jul 21, 2016)

Xue Sheng said:


> Only in his movies, never in the real world



You knew Bruce Lee?


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## Tames D (Jul 21, 2016)

Tired_Yeti said:


> You knew Bruce Lee?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone 6+ using Tapatalk


I believe Xue worked with BL on the Longstreet series.


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## Touch Of Death (Jul 21, 2016)

Flying Crane said:


> What did he shout?  Did he call them names?  Tell them in grisly detain what mayhem and death was about to come?
> 
> Did he tell them he would waive his private parts at them, and fart in their general direction?


Mostly, "RAWWWWWR", I guess.


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## moonhill99 (Jul 22, 2016)

Xue Sheng said:


> Pretty much every city and virtually all traditional Chinese martial arts, all Chinese Sports Sanda/Sanshou, all Chinese Police/Military Sanda/Sanshou. Most Aikido classes, virtually all JKD classes, shall I continue......



*Why do martial artists “shout” in the execution of a technique?*
Why do martial artists "shout" in the execution of a technique?

In MARTIAL ARTS, Why people scream and yell?What's the purpose of doing so?

Why do karate people always yell, "KIIIIIIYYYAAAAAAA!"?

*Purpose of yelling in martial arts*
K'ihap - the purpose of yelling in martial arts

*Yelling in martial arts*

Hiiiyaah!  What’s with the yelling? | Oneonta Taekwon-do


Do you want me to post million web sites and million videos here?


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## Kenpoguy123 (Jul 22, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> JKD doesn't kiai? Bruce lee always did it though.


He made those noises to sound good in movies it's very unlikely he trained his students to do that


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## Kenpoguy123 (Jul 22, 2016)

Tired_Yeti said:


> You knew Bruce Lee?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone 6+ using Tapatalk


I think it's pretty obvious that the guy didnt really fight while going wawwww woooo and pulling over the top expressions after he punched someone


----------



## moonhill99 (Jul 22, 2016)

Touch Of Death said:


> I knew a marine who fought in Vietnam, hand to hand, sometimes, and he was an advocate of shouting at them before he killed them.



I have no idea if Army, Navy, Marines, soldiers, Data unit, and Seals yell or scream or if some countries do it and other countries do not.

But the military goal is to shoot before you get seen or hear them coming. I would thing the goal would be different you want to shoot not be seen.  You goal is not scare them off but shoot them before they know you are there.


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## Tez3 (Jul 22, 2016)

moonhill99 said:


> *Why do martial artists “shout” in the execution of a technique?*
> Why do martial artists "shout" in the execution of a technique?
> 
> In MARTIAL ARTS, Why people scream and yell?What's the purpose of doing so?
> ...




Look moonbeam, I worry about you, I do really. You post so much stuff here that is just sheer moonshine that I wonder what sort of world you live in, I think your parents need to restrict your computer and television time then take you out more to interact with real people. Getting your ideas on life through third rate fiction is not the way to live a fulfilling life and it does nothing for your English skills so limits your ability to communicate.
I have never heard any martial artist shout 'kill ya' as they did a technique, they kiai in some styles but it's a controlled noise made for a reason. It's not a yell or a scream son which if you kept posting this rubbish most people here will be doing. So, step away from the computer, go on do it now, go to a martial arts class and train until you are exhausted, go and talk to real people, have a nice meal with them, cook it yourself perhaps, go to a library read good literature, go to the opera, go to the ballet, the theatre, watch Shakespeare, Pinter, Miller, Williams etc. Go to an art gallery, look at Old Masters, new works, sculptures. See the world. In other words educate yourself, stop believing the Far Right's propaganda on UK policing and actually find out for yourself, stop parroting articles from sources you don't know on the internet. Get a life.


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## Tez3 (Jul 22, 2016)

moonhill99 said:


> I have no idea if Army, Navy, Marines, soldiers, Data unit, and Seals yell or scream or if some countries do it and other countries do not.
> 
> But the military goal is to shoot before you get seen or hear them coming. I would thing the goal would be different you want to shoot not be seen.  You goal is not scare them off but shoot them before they know you are there.



No. See my post above.


----------



## Ironbear24 (Jul 22, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> they kiai in some styles but it's a controlled noise made for a reason.



To harden to the stomach incase you get hit there, to make your strike hit harder as you are exhaling, and to possibly scare/ catch your opponent off gaurd.


----------



## Tez3 (Jul 22, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> To harden to the stomach incase you get hit there, to make your strike hit harder as you are exhaling, and to possibly scare/ catch your opponent off gaurd.



Some might say that, others will give other reasons. It's worth of a discussion all on it's own.


----------



## Touch Of Death (Jul 22, 2016)

moonhill99 said:


> I have no idea if Army, Navy, Marines, soldiers, Data unit, and Seals yell or scream or if some countries do it and other countries do not.
> 
> But the military goal is to shoot before you get seen or hear them coming. I would thing the goal would be different you want to shoot not be seen.  You goal is not scare them off but shoot them before they know you are there.


I'm sorry, I was in the military, and we ain't a bunch of Ninjas. We are scared anyway; so yelling comes natural, and you ain't seen nothin' until you see a six foot Marine, yelling and snarling at you. It causes hesitation, and maybe a little puddle at your feet.


----------



## moonhill99 (Jul 22, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> [
> 
> 
> We are adults, we don't scream like little children, most of my students are trained killers, why would they run around screaming and shouting. In fact why the hell would anyone run around screaming and shouting when they are defending themselves?
> ...



No you are not a cop and no nothing about police work in the US. You lumping police work as one thing.Anyone that knows any thing about police will not do it.

You not taking the time, day, *call type*, lone officers, back up,suspect rap sheet, suspect interaction, caution text and dispatch info so on.

You can not say officer was too aggressive or not aggressive enough or should done this or that with out talking about case.

Any cop or anyone that knows little about police work would not do this.

No officers will walk up to car that gone through red light in south central LA, with owner of car of long long rap sheet and car load of thugs late at night across from gang house playing hippie card.


No officer will put him self or her self in absolute dangers playing hippie card or should be playing the hippie card on dangerous felon who just took off from police in car or on foot. Or raid of gang members house or dealing with gag members or some one that has weapon.

If you resist arrest you be taken down to the ground because it safer for you and the officer on the ground than standing up fighting.

If there lots people around or many people fighting it safer for the officer to stay up.

Getting tasered is safer for the officer and bad guy than standing around fighting or bringing the police baton out.

If you calm and relax the officer will be calm and relax but if you come across combative or unstable the officer may cuff you for his or her safety.

I seen cops show up at fights and cuff everyone than sort it out and release everyone other than dirt bang that started the fight or assault the person.

I seen cops cuff suspicious person or suspicious person in suspicious vehicle than release them and other cops do the investigation standing up and other cops cool with you just sitting down on the ground.

And Likewise at family domestic. Just because you in cuffs does not mean you are going to jail. You are being detain to the officer sorts it out. Some departments and officers are picking having the may be arrestee not cuff or sitting down and just walking around.

A 13 old girl in a drug area doing drugs is going have different response than a 25 old BIG guy a gang member with criminal history. You most likely will be cuffed and not allowed to walk around well the officer does the investigation of suspicious vehicle.

You are trolling or never seen cop or the UK is must be very different.

Any cop here or anyone knows just little bit about police will know you do not discuss police procedure with so many things like good neighborhood, bad neighborhood, time of day, want you doing, how you talk to the officer, *call type*, lone officers, back up, suspect rap sheet so on.

Cop being too aggressive? That not enough to go on. What are you doing?

Are you parked by a closed businesses late at night and have mask and gloves in your car? And wonder why cops are treating you as bad guy? Than VS waiting for your wife in walmart parking lot doing the day?

Are you yelling and screaming at the officer or coming across combative?

What are you doing that you being taken down at gun point by 4+ officers? Do you have gun on you? Did you rob someone? Are you threatening to shoot someone? Are you wanted for burglary? Did you take of from the officers on foot or in car?

What do you mean cops are too aggressive? Are you just walking down the street like everyone else than got stop by the police  and they come across combative and you are not yelling and screaming at them. If that the case you could file a complaint.

You cannot demand cop to be calm and relax and walk up to you and shake your had when you are armed with a weapon or you just done a home invasion ,robbery or burglary.

Do you mean cops in your city are doing mundane traffic stops and person stops and mundane calls like Alarms, 911 hang up ,complaints, disputes, report calls, traffic accident, neighbor disputes, landlord tenant disputes, traffic violations so on!! And the cops come across aggressive or combative?

Cop pulls you over or on foot and starts yelling at you?

I'm sorry but you have to give me more info on what you mean by cops are too aggressive.

Or do you some how thing cops should be hippies and smile and shake you had and spend long time of why you should comply and be put in cuffs for doing robbery, shooting some one, beating someone up, burglary, waving a weapon around, home invasion or car chase?


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## Tez3 (Jul 22, 2016)

Touch Of Death said:


> I'm sorry, I was in the military, and we ain't a bunch of Ninjas. We are scared anyway; so yelling comes natural, and you ain't seen nothin' until you see a six foot Marine, yelling and snarling at you. It causes hesitation, and maybe a little puddle at your feet.



Unless you are another six foot Marine in which case you go find the nearest bar to hide from the Royal Marine Commandos who have just bimbled in, chuffed to Naafi breaks because they are on a run ashore and are looking for a few wets before they bag off.


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## Touch Of Death (Jul 22, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> Unless you are another six foot Marine in which case you go find the nearest bar to hide from the Royal Marine Commandos who have just bimbled in, chuffed to Naafi breaks because they are on a run ashore and are looking for a few wets before they bag off.


As if; we would be too busy making fun of the way you talk.


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## Tez3 (Jul 22, 2016)

moonhill99 said:


> No you are not a cop and no nothing about police work in the US. You lumping police work as one thing.Anyone that knows any thing about police will not do it.




Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear.

Son, I am not a police officer in the USA therefore I don't pretend to know anything about them unlike you who think you know all about British police of which I know a great, great deal. I don't comment on American police, I reply to your wilfully disgraceful remarks about British policing.
As for the rest, go and lie down in a cool dark place, you are ranting and I am now very bored  with you.


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## Tez3 (Jul 22, 2016)

Touch Of Death said:


> As if; we would be too busy making fun of the way you talk.



Ok we'll send the Gurkhas, dare you to make fun of them....even we don't lol.


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## moonhill99 (Jul 22, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear.
> 
> Son, I am not a police officer in the USA therefore I don't pretend to know anything about them unlike you who think you know all about British police of which I know a great, great deal. I don't comment on American police, I reply to your wilfully disgraceful remarks about British policing.
> As for the rest, go and lie down in a cool dark place, you are ranting and I am now very bored  with you.



No I don't about UK or much of anything about British police other than want the US people get spoon fed some really liberal country. 

But I do know little about US police and I have family  members who are police officers.


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## moonhill99 (Jul 22, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear.
> 
> Son, I am not a police officer in the USA therefore I don't pretend to know anything about them unlike you who think you know all about British police of which I know a great, great deal. I don't comment on American police, I reply to your wilfully disgraceful remarks about British policing.
> As for the rest, go and lie down in a cool dark place, you are ranting and I am now very bored  with you.



You where one was complaining cops being too aggressive or them vs us mentality than get mad when I reply to your comment. You never did elaborate on this of what you mean by it.


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## Tez3 (Jul 22, 2016)

moonhill99 said:


> No I don't about UK or much of anything about British police other than want the US people get spoon fed some really liberal country.
> 
> But I do know little about US police and I have family  members who are police officers.



Then why are you repeating so much rubbish about the British police and the law, why are you parroting lies and making such a fool of yourself. I haven't commented on American police. Oh and you are correct you do know little about American policing, very little by the look of it. The only ones who can speak for American police are American police officers so stop pretending you know hard their job is, you don't take the risks or  the knocks so just leave the subject alone and start respecting your police officers.


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## moonhill99 (Jul 22, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> Then why are you repeating so much rubbish about the British police and the law, why are you parroting lies and making such a fool of yourself. I haven't commented on American police. Oh and you are correct you do know little about American policing, very little by the look of it. The only ones who can speak for American police are American police officers so stop pretending you know hard their job is, you don't take the risks or  the knocks so just leave the subject alone and start respecting your police officers.



You where the one that was complaining cops being too aggressive. What do you mean by that? Are you saying cops too aggressive even at mundane calls? Are saying cops are too combative?


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## moonhill99 (Jul 22, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> Then why are you repeating so much rubbish about the British police and the law, why are you parroting lies and making such a fool of yourself. I haven't commented on American police. Oh and you are correct you do know little about American policing, very little by the look of it. The only ones who can speak for American police are American police officers so stop pretending you know hard their job is, you don't take the risks or  the knocks so just leave the subject alone and start respecting your police officers.



I only made handful of posts about British police and I never reaped or argued any thing about British police.

Why are you taken offense?

I seen US cops work calls but don't know how done in UK other the US media that shows UK some very liberal country.


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## Tez3 (Jul 22, 2016)

moonhill99 said:


> You where the one that was complaining cops being too aggressive. What do you mean by that? Are you saying cops too aggressive even at mundane calls? Are saying cops are too combative?



My child, I haven't complained police officers were too aggressive, this is your reading skills letting you down...again.


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## Tez3 (Jul 22, 2016)

moonhill99 said:


> I only made handful of posts about British police and I never reaped or argued any thing about British police.
> 
> Why are you taken offense?
> 
> I seen US cops work calls but don't know how done in UK other the US media that shows UK some very liberal country.



LOL. You made a thread about 'self defence being illegal in the UK' where you quoted such a load of old cobblers it was hard to stop laughing. You've also written more rubbish about how the military work. When are you going to stop?


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## moonhill99 (Jul 22, 2016)

Can the public shoot or stabbed some one in the UK that is breaking into your house? Yes or no? if yes, case close that move on *I will not say it again here.*

Can the police shoot some one in the UK armed with weapon like a knife, stick, bat or sword so on? if yes, case close that move on I will not say it again here.


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## moonhill99 (Jul 22, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> LOL. You made a thread about 'self defence being illegal in the UK' where you quoted such a load of old cobblers it was hard to stop laughing. You've also written more rubbish about how the military work. When are you going to stop?



So it was propaganda web sites for Americans and I fail trap to it.


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## moonhill99 (Jul 22, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> LOL. You made a thread about 'self defence being illegal in the UK' where you quoted such a load of old cobblers it was hard to stop laughing. You've also written more rubbish about how the military work. When are you going to stop?



Really I sure like know how this reads that the Army, Navy, Marines, soldiers, Data unit, and Seals yell or scream ?? Yes or no.

I have no idea if Army, Navy, Marines, soldiers, Data unit, and Seals yell or scream

*I have no idea *if Army, Navy, Marines, soldiers, Data unit, and Seals yell or scream

_*You've also written more rubbish about how the military work.*_

I have no idea if Army, Navy, Marines, soldiers, Data unit, and Seals yell or scream_*.*_

Please tell me how this reads yes they yell or scream or no they do not yell or scream


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## moonhill99 (Jul 22, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> LOL. You made a thread about 'self defence being illegal in the UK' where you quoted such a load of old cobblers it was hard to stop laughing. You've also written more rubbish about how the military work. When are you going to stop?



But you do understand I made thread to to discuss it!! I was not going around hijacking other threads telling people self defense being illegal in the UK.

The point of thread was to discuss it.


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## Tez3 (Jul 22, 2016)

moonhill99 said:


> But you do understand I made thread to to discuss it!! I was not going around hijacking other threads telling people self defense being illegal in the UK.
> 
> The point of thread was to discuss it.



How can you discuss something that is false? You made statements that were untrue, there is no discussion to be had when that happens.


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## Tez3 (Jul 22, 2016)

moonhill99 said:


> Really I sure like know how this reads that the Army, Navy, Marines, soldiers, Data unit, and Seals yell or scream ?? Yes or no.
> 
> I have no idea if Army, Navy, Marines, soldiers, Data unit, and Seals yell or scream
> 
> ...



Yu have a selective memory, remember that post about soldiers creeping around killing people _"But the military goal is to shoot before you get seen or hear them coming. I would thing the goal would be different you want to shoot not be seen. You goal is not scare them off but shoot them before they know you are there."
_
Writing nonsense in bad English.....


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## Tez3 (Jul 22, 2016)

moonhill99 said:


> So it was propaganda web sites for Americans and I fail trap to it.



As I said educate yourself, check up, read more, don't post stuff you know nothing about.


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## moonhill99 (Jul 22, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> How can you discuss something that is false? You made statements that were untrue, there is no discussion to be had when that happens.



The American public led to believe there no self defense and some major liberal country.


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## moonhill99 (Jul 22, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> Yu have a selective memory, remember that post about soldiers creeping around killing people _"But the military goal is to shoot before you get seen or hear them coming. I would thing the goal would be different you want to shoot not be seen. You goal is not scare them off but shoot them before they know you are there."
> _
> Writing nonsense in bad English.....


 
So the goal is for them to see you and hear you coming? That what you telling me?


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## Tez3 (Jul 22, 2016)

moonhill99 said:


> The American public led to believe there no self defense and some major liberal country.



Not my circus not my monkeys. I'm not going to discuss American politics here, apart from the fact there's no political discussion allowed here, I couldn't give an educated or balanced opinion on something I know very little about.


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## moonhill99 (Jul 22, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> Yu have a selective memory, remember that post about soldiers creeping around killing people _"But the military goal is to shoot before you get seen or hear them coming. I would thing the goal would be different you want to shoot not be seen. You goal is not scare them off but shoot them before they know you are there."
> _
> Writing nonsense in bad English.....



No where did I say it would be like poster saying it would be like ninjas no matter how you play it they will not see you or hear you.

No where I'm saying it will be like in movies that they will not see you or hear you like ninjas.

No matter how hard you try it be like movies like ninjas.


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## Tez3 (Jul 22, 2016)

moonhill99 said:


> So the goal is for them to see you and hear you coming? That what you telling me?



The military is large, units have different jobs, the aim of the exercises are all very different, it's not black and white. If it had to be summarised in one sentence...the aim is to win.


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## Tez3 (Jul 22, 2016)

moonhill99 said:


> No where did I say it would be like poster saying it would be like ninjas no matter how you play it they will not see you or hear you.
> 
> No where I'm saying it will be like in movies that they will not see you or hear you like ninjas.
> 
> No matter how hard you try it be like movies like ninjas.




I think you are quoting the wrong person here, I never mentioned ninjas.


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## moonhill99 (Jul 22, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> Not my circus not my monkeys. I'm not going to discuss American politics here, apart from the fact there's no political discussion allowed here, I couldn't give an educated or balanced opinion on something I know very little about.



I was saying if media and web sites did better job than I would not have come up with those statements about the UK self defense.


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## Tez3 (Jul 22, 2016)

moonhill99 said:


> I was saying if media and web sites did better job than I would not have come up with those statements about the UK self defense.




to quote a well known American   "DOH"


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## moonhill99 (Jul 22, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> I think you are quoting the wrong person here, I never mentioned ninjas.



Poster saying 

*I'm sorry, I was in the military, and we ain't a bunch of Ninjas*

What , think I watch too may movies and think the military is all ninjas cannot be seen or hear them coming?

No where I saying want you want and want plays out in reality other thing.

You want to be stealthy but most of the time they see and hear you coming.

No where I saying otherwise.


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## Kenpoguy123 (Jul 22, 2016)

Wow this thread has gone off track from the ops original post lol


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## moonhill99 (Jul 22, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> As I said educate yourself, check up, read more, don't post stuff you know nothing about.



That what the point thread I made. I came across some web sites about UK and I believe it, that the public has no self defense and police have little if any self defense too.


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## moonhill99 (Jul 22, 2016)

Kenpoguy123 said:


> Wow this thread has gone off track from the ops original post lol



OP saying.

*No just the one guy the head instructor was a great guy he was a good teacher a decent guy. A bit arrogant but well he was a 7th dan, a former soldier and a police officer I guess there's bound to be a bit of arrogance there but he was fine and a guy I do still have a lot of respect for
*
Poster
*
There is an us verses them mentality, police officers naturally fall into.
*
The clarification of aggressive cop vs non aggressive cop or what do you mean by aggressive cop turn into how police should or should not deal with bad guys.

What does he mean here that if you not cop they will not be nice? Or is he saying cops are too aggressive? That he or she does not feel conformable in a martial arts class with police officers there that have us verses them mentality? Some police attitude because he or she is not police officer?


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## Xue Sheng (Jul 22, 2016)

Tired_Yeti said:


> You knew Bruce Lee?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone 6+ using Tapatalk



Nope, but it is known and has been said by those that did


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## Xue Sheng (Jul 22, 2016)

moonhill99 said:


> *Why do martial artists “shout” in the execution of a technique?*
> Why do martial artists "shout" in the execution of a technique?
> 
> In MARTIAL ARTS, Why people scream and yell?What's the purpose of doing so?
> ...



That's nice, when did I say or even imply that there was no yelling in 'all' martial arts. I took TKD in my youth, and dabbled in Karate, I know they yell and in my many many years doing this stuff, I have seen all sorts of styles that yell....but they all do not...and in your limited experience you apparently were not aware of this and I based this on this post that you had made



> Like what city or area he goes to that there is no yelling or screaming in his martial arts class or self defense..



I simply listed those that do not yell and pointed out you can find them in virtually all cities. And  traditional Chinese martial arts, all Chinese Sports Sanda/Sanshou, all Chinese Police/Military Sanda/Sanshou., most Aikido classes, virtually all JKD classes, they do not yell, and there are more...... apparently did not know this..... now you do.

And you are posting on MT and even though you may yell in your martial arts class, there is no need to yell when you post and large bolded letters are taken as yelling.


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## Tired_Yeti (Jul 22, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> Master Ken vs Brian Boitano. Who would win?



Master Ken because Ameri Do Te is perfect and figure skating is B--L S--T!


Sent from my iPhone 6+ using Tapatalk


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## moonhill99 (Jul 22, 2016)

Xue Sheng said:


> That's nice, when did I say or even imply that there was no yelling in 'all' martial arts. I took TKD in my youth, and dabbled in Karate, I know they yell and in my many many years doing this stuff, I have seen all sorts of styles that yell....but they all do not...and in your limited experience you apparently were not aware of this and I based this on this post that you had made
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'm not sure what you mean they yell or do not yell. 

The reason for yelling in class? I get many reasons but base on person opinions of why they yell.

Or no one knows why they yell and people have different opinions of why they yell.


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## Tired_Yeti (Jul 22, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> We are adults, we don't scream like little children, most of my students are trained killers...


Uh huh...








Sent from my iPhone 6+ using Tapatalk


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## Xue Sheng (Jul 22, 2016)

moonhill99 said:


> I'm not sure what you mean they yell or do not yell.
> 
> The reason for yelling in class? I get many reasons but base on person opinions of why they yell.
> 
> Or no one knows why they yell and people have different opinions of why they yell.



I thought I was pretty clear with some style yell, some do not and Traditional Chinese martial arts, all Chinese Sports Sanda/Sanshou, all Chinese Police/Military Sanda/Sanshou., most Aikido classes, virtually all JKD classes do 'not' yell or kiai


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## Tez3 (Jul 22, 2016)

Tired_Yeti said:


> Uh huh...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yep, my students are army, members of various British regiments including Scots Guards ( born fighters lol) Para Regt, a couple of tank regiments, the Yorkshire Regiment and of course Gurkhas. We also have some from Corps such as the Royal Signals and Royal Army Medical Corps ( surprisingly pugnacious), Royal Electrical and Mechanical  Engineers, there's a couple of PTIs but no Royal Military Police as they are used for practice when the squaddies are out on the pop.


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## Ironbear24 (Jul 22, 2016)

moonhill99 said:


> I only made handful of posts about British police and I never reaped or argued any thing about British police.
> 
> Why are you taken offense?
> 
> I seen US cops work calls but don't know how done in UK other the US media that shows UK some very liberal country.



Dude just stop already. The more you talk the worse it gets for you. You already made a fool of yourself more than once, what more can you get from this?


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## Touch Of Death (Jul 22, 2016)

moonhill99 said:


> So the goal is for them to see you and hear you coming? That what you telling me?


Why, certainly. The Marines want you to know they are coming. They will even play music.


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## Tez3 (Jul 22, 2016)

Touch Of Death said:


> Why, certainly. The Marines want you to know they are coming. They will even play music.



Oh we beat you again because we have bagpipes! Known to scare the bravest of men. that and the men in 'skirts' who come with the pipes. 

Our conditioning coach and some of our students are in this parade. enjoy!


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## Tired_Yeti (Jul 24, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> Yep, my students are army, members of various British regiments including Scots Guards ( born fighters lol) Para Regt, a couple of tank regiments, the Yorkshire Regiment and of course Gurkhas. We also have some from Corps such as the Royal Signals and Royal Army Medical Corps ( surprisingly pugnacious), Royal Electrical and Mechanical  Engineers, there's a couple of PTIs but no Royal Military Police as they are used for practice when the squaddies are out on the pop.



I was in the US Army and we didn't rule out yelling on the battlefield. There are times and situations when it's useful to stun or disorient an enemy long enough to give you the upper hand.

Given all the various units you've listed (that's a lot of men), I'm willing to bet some of them have or would yell in combat at times. In fact, come to think of it, you guys (UK) were the last guys to use bayonets in combat (just a few years ago). Hard to imagine such close quarters fighting to the death without some yelling.


"Re-stomp the groin"
Sent from my iPhone 6+ using Tapatalk


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## Tames D (Jul 25, 2016)

Tired_Yeti said:


> I was in the US Army and we didn't rule out yelling on the battlefield. There are times and situations when it's useful to stun or disorient an enemy long enough to give you the upper hand.
> Sent from my iPhone 6+ using Tapatalk


Where did you see action?


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## Touch Of Death (Jul 25, 2016)

Tames D said:


> Where did you see action?


He didn't say he did. How long have you been beating your wife?


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## Tames D (Jul 25, 2016)

Touch Of Death said:


> He didn't say he did. How long have you been beating your wife?


WTF? Beating my wife???  What are you on??


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## Tez3 (Jul 25, 2016)

Tired_Yeti said:


> I was in the US Army and we didn't rule out yelling on the battlefield. There are times and situations when it's useful to stun or disorient an enemy long enough to give you the upper hand.
> 
> Given all the various units you've listed (that's a lot of men), I'm willing to bet some of them have or would yell in combat at times. In fact, come to think of it, you guys (UK) were the last guys to use bayonets in combat (just a few years ago). Hard to imagine such close quarters fighting to the death without some yelling.
> 
> ...



What Moonbat said was "_But the military goal is to shoot before you get seen or hear them coming. I would thing the goal would be different you want to shoot not be seen. You goal is not scare them off but shoot them before they know you are there."   _But usually there is no accounting for what he posts. He has the idea that all self defence training is all screaming and all soldiers walk around silently.

As for being a lot of men, yep, we are the largest garrison in Europe, we have the Infantry Training School here ( trains all infantry as well as the Paras, the Gurkhas and the Guards Regiments) we have a couple of American exchange officers here too. We have a Brigade Headquarters and most of the Brigade here plus the training area here is huge.
Bayonets were used in Afghanistan and the Gurkhas shout 'ayo Gurkhali' as they attack, my Gurkha friends said that is now a last ditch move when all seems lost and means basically 'F*** you they are coming at you with kukris so say your prayers' 

Soldier who led Afghanistan bayonet charge into hail of bullets honoured

Soldier who led Afghanistan bayonet charge into hail of bullets honoured


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## Dirty Dog (Jul 25, 2016)

Touch Of Death said:


> He didn't say he did. How long have you been beating your wife?





Tames D said:


> WTF? Beating my wife???  What are you on??



I think that's sort of his point. Tired_Yeti didn't say he saw action. He said he was in the Army. 
Not, in my opinion, the best way of making that point, but I think that's what he was getting at.


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## Tames D (Jul 25, 2016)

Dirty Dog said:


> I think that's sort of his point. Tired_Yeti didn't say he saw action. He said he was in the Army.
> Not, in my opinion, the best way of making that point, but I think that's what he was getting at.


Yeah, I did get his 'point'. Very strange'point' to make considering all I did was ask a question based on this comment from Tired Yeti: "I was in the US Army and we didn't rule out yelling on the battlefield". Maybe he saw action, maybe he didn't. I just asked where he saw action (if he had) but never got a reply.


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