# cebu eskrima



## leomel pino (May 30, 2005)

hi everyone interested in authentic eskrima? 

questions and experiences are highly welcomed.


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## arnisador (May 30, 2005)

What eskrima is not authentic?


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## Cruentus (May 30, 2005)

leomel pino said:
			
		

> hi everyone interested in authentic eskrima?
> 
> questions and experiences are highly welcomed.



Where are you looking (city, state, country, etc.)


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## leomel pino (May 31, 2005)

authentic eskrima are styles which are not commercialized and mixed with other MAs and lads, im from cebu and i had vast knowledge when it comes to our native arts like dugukan a grappling art which is only native in the town of dalaguete, and eskrima is wide spread among the towns here in cebu especially in the mountainous parts of cebu where old eskrimadors lived as hermits, there are still things in eskrima that foriegners, even if they are qualified masters do not know about eskrima its secrets are only taught to filipinos who studied from masters in the countryside mostly relatives of the master.


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## Cruentus (May 31, 2005)

It doesn't get much more traditional then Balintawak. You should check out a Balintawak player while in Cebu...you are in the heart of where it all started, you know. You also have doce pares. Man...Cebu is a flourishing community of traditional eskrima masters....


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## bart (May 31, 2005)

leomel pino said:
			
		

> ...vast knowledge when it comes to our native arts like dugukan a grappling art which is only native in the town of dalaguete...



Is dugukan a weapon based art like eskrima or is it purely a wrestling style? I'm interested in knowing more about it if you're willing to divulge. 



			
				leomel pino said:
			
		

> ...there are still things in eskrima that foriegners, even if they are qualified masters do not know about eskrima its secrets are only taught to filipinos who studied from masters in the countryside mostly relatives of the master...



I agree. There is a lot that is still mysterious. The western student comes from a different reference point and sometimes is "unable" to learn in the same way that a Filipino can, coming from that same culture. 

I would say also that the bias of some teachers against outsiders extends to other Filipino ethnic groups as well and isn't solely a bias against foreigners. There's also the language barrier. I've met some teachers who speak pretty good Filipino-English but have some difficulty in Tagalog. If you don't speak the local dialect of that hermit master, you probably won't get much training. It pays to be open to learning the local culture.


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## leomel pino (May 31, 2005)

dugukan is an unarmed combat style and if yoou're interested about it train here in cebu, I can be your translator so i also can see if it is related to dumog or not.


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## bart (May 31, 2005)

leomel pino said:
			
		

> dugukan is an unarmed combat style and if yoou're interested about it train here in cebu, I can be your translator so i also can see if it is related to dumog or not.



Are you in Cebu? What style of eskrima do you do? Your arts list also shows Systema. If you don't mind my asking, where did you train in Systema?


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## leomel pino (Jun 1, 2005)

Yes im here in cebu and my style of eskrima is developed by my mother's uncle, mainly largo mano and kinamot and about systema, i only learned this from a ukrainian tourist that i met in the streets


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## bart (Jun 2, 2005)

leomel pino said:
			
		

> Yes im here in cebu and my style of eskrima is developed by my mother's uncle, mainly largo mano and kinamot and about systema, i only learned this from a ukrainian tourist that i met in the streets



Why is it that you don't want to give the name of your eskrima style? "Kamot" being hand, "Kinamot" meaning "using hands" often is used in terms of "eating with your hands".  Usually I've heard of the empty hand part of the art as pangamot or mano-mano. Is the "kinamot" the method of empty hand in your mother's uncle's system? Who is your mother's uncle?


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## leomel pino (Jun 2, 2005)

we just called it garote that is the common name of eskrima here and the style is not commercial it is only taught to relatives and my mother's uncle is Frankit Montajes from Tuburan, Cebu and all i know that his eskrima was passed on him by a certian Rogelio Canete.


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## bart (Jun 3, 2005)

leomel pino said:
			
		

> we just called it garote that is the common name of eskrima here and the style is not commercial it is only taught to relatives and my mother's uncle is Frankit Montajes from Tuburan, Cebu and all i know that his eskrima was passed on him by a certian Rogelio Canete.



Thanks for the info. Tuburan is just the on the over the mountains on the other side of the island from Cebu City if I am correct. Are you sure that it was Rogelio Canete? Might it have been Eulogio?


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## leomel pino (Jun 3, 2005)

yes, its called rogelio, ive seen him in person and he doesnt look similar to eulogio.


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## kroh (Jun 3, 2005)

What is the general view of Americans in Cebu?  If an American went over there to train and he spoke the language...How would he be received?

Thank you
Regards, 
Walt


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## leomel pino (Jun 3, 2005)

yes and no. yes, in the fact that eskrima is almost dying art and no, because of supersizing the art. if you want the old eskrima PM me.


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## bart (Jun 3, 2005)

kroh said:
			
		

> What is the general view of Americans in Cebu?  If an American went over there to train and he spoke the language...How would he be received?
> 
> Thank you
> Regards,
> Walt



Walt,

The Filipino people are like people anywhere. They are more concerned about the quality of the person than the letters on their passport. In general Filipinos believe in equality, justice, fair play, and God. They will treat good people as good people should be treated. Also, an understanding of the language will go a long way.

Eskrima is not dying. It is alive and well and flourishing in fact. If you go to Cebu you'll find that out. It's best to go there after you've already made contact with someone or have references. If you don't have those options you should go during the WEKAF Championships or during the Sinulog. You will soon find other westerners there and they will lead you to the right spots. You can also contact some of the larger styles. They advertise publicly.

My teacher, Ramon Rubia is going to be in Cebu all summer. You can email him at rrubia@sanmigueleskrima.com. You can also contact GM Diony Canete. He is very receptive and you can contact him at:

Doce Pares International
World Headquarters
30 Eagle Street, Sto.Niño Village
Banilad, Cebu City 6000 - Philippines
dioncan@doceparesinternational.com
(63-32)346-0433
(63-32)344-3028 

As you can tell there are many different styles of eskrima and many different teachers. This "supersizing" occurs, but it is not killing eskrima. Just because someone has a business license doesn't mean they sell crap. It indicates that they pay taxes and are somewhat organized. There is good and bad eskrima and what makes it so is very personal. You will have to do some hunting around and research to find what is best for you. Leomel might be the way to go, I know nothing of his eskrima so I can't say. But I would not narrow my options to only him if I were you. 

My personal suggestion of course would be to look for Doce Pares.


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## kroh (Jun 3, 2005)

Thanks for the info... I hope to make use of it soon...

Regards, 
Walt


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## leomel pino (Jun 3, 2005)

larger styles are not the  original anymore because of blending other MAs but our family's eskrima is different because when we add another technique we do not look on other MAs but we refer to our principles.


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## bart (Jun 5, 2005)

leomel pino said:
			
		

> larger styles are not the  original anymore because of blending other MAs but our family's eskrima is different because when we add another technique we do not look on other MAs but we refer to our principles.



From my experience, even the larger styles of FMA look at their own principles. But if they see something out there that is good they are willing to grow and absorb it. The fact is FMA are a product of the synthesis between Filipino, Spanish, American, Chinese, and Japanese cultures. Each had something of value that was recognized and absorbed by the Filipino stylist. Even your word "garote" comes from "garrote", the Spanish for "stick". "Eskrima", "Arnis", and even "Kali" are terms originally coined from another culture. If your system has espada y daga it has an influence from an outside art. If it includes the use of the bullwhip, it has influence from an outside art.

About your art, can you be sure where it came from originally? You said it came from Rogelio Canete who is still alive and whom you have seen. Where did he get it? Have you asked where he got it? Claims of originality and purity need to be substantiated to be believed. 

What kind of principles does your eskrima employ? How about an example? An example from Doce Pares would be "hayang kulob".


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## leomel pino (Jun 6, 2005)

hayang kulob is our main arsenal because of its speed and effectiveness.


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