# Executive Order Quietly Overturns US Fifth Amendment



## Bob Hubbard (Jul 19, 2007)

*Amendment V*


 No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation. 







Say GoodBye!





> Slashdot:
> RalphTWaP writes _"Tuesday, there wasn't even a fuss. Wednesday, the world was a little different. By executive order, the Secretary of the Treasury may now seize the property of any person who undermines efforts to promote economic reconstruction and political reform in Iraq. The Secretary may make his determination in secret and after the fact."_ There hasn't been much media notice of this; the UK's Guardian has an article explaining how the new authority will only be used to go after terrorists.





On the orders of his Imperial Majesty:



> [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]* Executive Order: Blocking Property of Certain Persons Who Threaten Stabilization Efforts in Iraq *[/FONT]
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Now, other than further removing our rights as declared by our nations founders...what does this do, really?

I do have one other question: Did Dubya understand all the big words or did Dead Eye Dick explain it to him?


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## shesulsa (Jul 19, 2007)

Oh ...

My ...

Gawd ....

So ... if you had to leave the U.S. because of the coming new order, where would you go?


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## Flying Crane (Jul 19, 2007)

shesulsa said:


> Oh ...
> 
> My ...
> 
> ...


 

My wife and I are seriously considering New Zealand.  Better go before they make emigrating illegal.  In the meantime, I suggest pulling all your money out of any banks and financial institutions, and burying it out in the forest somewhere...


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## Bob Hubbard (Jul 19, 2007)

New Zealand


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## Carol (Jul 19, 2007)

Canada, eh?


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## Flying Crane (Jul 19, 2007)

Carol Kaur said:


> Canada, eh?


 
Too close.  I want the whole damn globe between myself and this mess...


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## shesulsa (Jul 19, 2007)

I posed the question here for those who wish to answer and explore.


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## Steel Tiger (Jul 19, 2007)

It appears I woke up this morning to find you guys have gone back in time.  

He'll be repealing the Emancipation Proclamation soon.

And, guys, you can always come down here.  Sure we've got one of George's cronies in office at the moment, but he'll probably be gone after October.


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## Flying Crane (Jul 19, 2007)

Steel Tiger said:


> It appears I woke up this morning to find you guys have gone back in time.
> 
> He'll be repealing the Emancipation Proclamation soon.
> 
> And, guys, you can always come down here. Sure we've got one of George's cronies in office at the moment, but he'll probably be gone after October.


 
We've already looked into it.  It's pretty tough for US people to emmigrate to Australia.  New Zealand is easier.  But then we can just jump on over for a visit!


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## Bob Hubbard (Jul 19, 2007)

Problem with Australia is, I can't bring my swords with me. 
I like them. 

But yeah, right now, there's a bunch of old dead guys who fought a war or 2 to create this country looking at each other in disbelief and doing the 18th century version of "WTF?" 

Sadly, this is just another step towards the end. The average American is too lazy to do more than ***** about it, and as the security continues to ramp up, the chance of a real rebellion (which Jefferson, that traitorous bastard recommends) diminishes more.  After all, what can a few disjointed groups of rednecks with shotguns do against trained US troops?  Guys attacking the troops in Iraq have better gear than the average US citizen....and look how effective they are. 

I'd like to see a million man march against the White House and congress, loudly calling for mass resignations and open elections.  It'll never happen.
"Friends' is on.


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## Flying Crane (Jul 19, 2007)

Bob Hubbard said:


> Problem with Australia is, I can't bring my swords with me.
> I like them.
> 
> But yeah, right now, there's a bunch of old dead guys who fought a war or 2 to create this country looking at each other in disbelief and doing the 18th century version of "WTF?"
> ...


 
Good point, and yeah, the swords are an issue for me as well.

Part of me thinks that the patriotic thing to do is stick around and try to be part of the solution somehow.  The other part of me thinks it's gone too far and it's gonna all crumble and we ought to get out while we can and not get stuck with the check...


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## Rich Parsons (Jul 19, 2007)

I wonder what is up. There was a court ruling a few years ago based upon abuse by the IRS to stop them from freezing assets and locking people out of houses without a court order. 

So know it is ok. 

Hmmmmm?!? 

All I have to say is "WTF! Over. "


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## Flying Crane (Jul 19, 2007)

Bob Hubbard said:


> Sadly, this is just another step towards the end. The average American is too lazy to do more than ***** about it, and as the security continues to ramp up, the chance of a real rebellion (which Jefferson, that traitorous bastard recommends) diminishes more. After all, what can a few disjointed groups of rednecks with shotguns do against trained US troops? Guys attacking the troops in Iraq have better gear than the average US citizen....and look how effective they are.


 
I'd like to see the members and leaders of the armed forces wake up and take a step back and simply refuse to follow orders given by the lunatics at hand.  They are powerless if nobody will cooperate with them.


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## Bob Hubbard (Jul 19, 2007)

I think it would take a major military mutiny right now to topple George.
I also don't think it'll happen.


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## Steel Tiger (Jul 19, 2007)

A few years ago Gore Vidal predicted that the US would become a third world country with a very good soccer team, much like Brazil.  Is it possible that this is the beginning of a descent to that position?  

It seems the Bush administration is determined to topple itself and alienate the rest of the world.


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## Empty Hands (Jul 19, 2007)

This is, unfortunately, nothing new.  In the past 10-15 years, a number of laws have been passed allowing the state to seize property without a criminal conviction, mostly in regards to drug cases.  Even when the individual in question has been acquitted, it has proven difficult or impossible to get their property back.  As in so many other things, the drug laws have created precedent for a further erosion of rights.


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## MA-Caver (Jul 19, 2007)

Doesn't this mean the 4th amendment? 
Elections are next year (right?), or is Dubya going to tamper with that as well. He'll be out of office and hopefully the new chimp will get rid of exec order 13303. 
Scary stuff to be sure. Talking about not doing anything to help Iraq or it'll be treason. Jeez. 
Kinda makes you re-think all those 9-11 conspiracies doesn't it? That terrible day was a set up to enact the homeland security which in effect leads to this. 
Constitutionally and by all rights afforded to us (Americans) by the same we have a DUTY to protest this new exec order. 
What makes it even more scary is that whilst we are in acts of rebellion and the suppression of said rebellion(s) this country can be left wide open for anything. 

Personally I'd love to go to New Zealand but can't afford it. So looks like I'm stuck here defending life liberty and pursuit of happiness. Well, that's okay too.


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## Rich Parsons (Jul 19, 2007)

Steel Tiger said:


> A few years ago Gore Vidal predicted that the US would become a third world country with a very good soccer team, much like Brazil. Is it possible that this is the beginning of a descent to that position?
> 
> It seems the Bush administration is determined to topple itself and alienate the rest of the world.



Maybe China and North Korea can get together and put sanctions against the USA for the Human Rights Violations.


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## Makalakumu (Jul 20, 2007)

I've taken a long break from posting in the study and its because of **** like this.  I have nothing that is MT safe to say about this except that I just cannot believe that people keep hoping and hoping for a better outcome then the one that is so clear.  People, if you are thinking about revolution, you need to beware so that you don't just jump on the latest bandwagon that leads to more of the same.  They control both sides.


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## Bob Hubbard (Jul 20, 2007)

I've avoided the study alot the last year or so.  Too many headaches here for me...too busy to keep the battle going.

As I posted the original thread here, I recalled an old post of mine.
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39154

I got tired of being told my sources weren't reliable, were too far left or right, or biased.  Too tired being called a traitor and disloyal by the blind.

This notice, which will be ignored by the mainstreme press, is right from the White House.  No 'artsy-fartsy' local paper, no militant group, no peacenik assembly.   Issued by the sitting president, and published on the official government website for all to read.




I love this country, and hope that November 2008 will see open and free elections and that January 2009 will see a new president sworn in, and the repealing of much of the draconian actions of the past years, and that a healing will begin. I hope that the elections will be held, that there is no controversy blemishing it, and that we can all look back at my comments here, and laugh, together.

I'm a dreamer.


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## Tez3 (Jul 20, 2007)

Bob, while there are dreamers there is hope.


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## Andy Moynihan (Jul 20, 2007)

But the world needs dreamers too.


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## michaeledward (Jul 20, 2007)

Military Oath of Office

_"I,_ {insert name here}_, do solemnly swear, (or affirm), that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God."_ 
​One can't help but wonder what else Mr. Bush must do before he is more widely recognized as the *ENEMY OF THE CONSTITUTION*, that he is. Even today, I still get people accusing me of 'Bashing Bush'. 

House Res. 333 are articles of impeachment against Richard Cheney, put forth by Congressman and Presidential Candidate Dennis Kucinich. They deserve support.


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## Marginal (Jul 20, 2007)

As long as it means that the inept fools that failed to rebuild Iraq's infrastructure, and the fools who were busy losing forkliftfulls of US currency are now being slapped with this provision...


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## Monadnock (Jul 20, 2007)

So, as I read this "Executive Order: Blocking Property of Certain Persons Who Threaten Stabilization Efforts in Iraq", to me it means "Don't materially threaten stabilization efforts in Iraq." How many of us are doing that?

So let's say, theres a Mosque funneling money abroad to Iraq, and you are donating to the Mosque, that to me means you are all going to lose your stuff. Would that be an example?

I think executive orders almost always step on someone's toes, not that I am defending this one.


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## shesulsa (Jul 20, 2007)

Monadnock said:


> So, as I read this "Executive Order: Blocking Property of Certain Persons Who Threaten Stabilization Efforts in Iraq", to me it means "Don't materially threaten stabilization efforts in Iraq." How many of us are doing that?
> 
> So let's say, theres a Mosque funneling money abroad to Iraq, and you are donating to the Mosque, that to me means you are all going to lose your stuff. Would that be an example?
> 
> I think executive orders almost always step on someone's toes, not that I am defending this one.


It's very easy to justify supporting the enemy of someone I have learned to hate and fear.  Terrorism has its name for a reason ... however, to use it as an excuse to destroy the very foundation of who we are is inexcusable.

If anyone here doesn't like their rights and would not fight for them, why the hell do you live here?  

I'd like to humbly point everyone to this thread, where I re-typed a speech from John F. Kennedy regarding sacraficing our civil liberties and rights in the name of national security.  It's not a new idea, it's not a new problem.

To keep our freedom, we have to get involved and stay involved.  Tivo can wait, I assure you.


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## Monadnock (Jul 20, 2007)

And another one today:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2007/07/20070720-4.html

*Executive Order: Interpretation of the Geneva Conventions Common Article 3 as Applied to a Program of Detention and Interrogation Operated by the Central Intelligence Agency*

*"*On February 7, 2002, I determined for the United States that members of al Qaeda, the Taliban, and associated forces are unlawful enemy combatants who are not entitled to the protections that the Third Geneva Convention provides to prisoners of war. I hereby reaffirm that determination."


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## Bob Hubbard (Jul 21, 2007)

Translation: We'll use whatever means we feel like using, even if they would make Uday squirm due to their evilness.


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## tshadowchaser (Jul 21, 2007)

we have for many years been slowly loseing our rights granted to us by the constitution.  They disappear a little at a time and usualy have to do with weapons but if you notice after 0-11 we created a posistion in the goverment and called the person running it a CZAR. The department he ran/runs was made to combat terroests but can actualy be used to spy on anyone and take action against anyone that the department feels it should. I see the new exec order adds a little more power to those in office and takes away even more of the rights of those of us that live in this country. 

As has been said befor how can the majority of the people in this country sit idealy by and let this happen with out wondering "WTF"


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## Edmund BlackAdder (Jul 22, 2007)

We still have a Constitution?  Thought they abolished that old rag a few years back.


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## Bob Hubbard (Jul 22, 2007)

It's in tatters, the framers are spinning, but it hasn't been completely outlawed yet.  Hopefully, sanity will reign things in soon....but I'm not counting on it for a year or 3.


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## bushidomartialarts (Jul 22, 2007)

I'm hoping that, come 2008, we'll have a new administration and new regime.

I'm hoping that regime will spend the first years essentially saying "Look, guys.  That stuff the last guys were doing was out of line.  Here's what we're doing to fix it.  Here's the other stuff we're doing to make sure it doesn't happen again.  Seriously, bear with us.  We're going to fix this."

I am, perhaps, optimistic.  But that's the shoe I'm hoping is going to drop.


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## Bob Hubbard (Jul 22, 2007)

I won't be able to afford to leave before then (unless I win the lotto) so, gotta hope for the best myself.


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