# Deno Cain



## freddrinkwine

I saw the posts / questions regarding Deno Cain. Sadly, Mr. Cain was convicted of 3 counts of criminal sexual conduct with children in May of 2003. He is serving 3-15 years in prison. Authorities suspect that he had been molesting children since 1985 -dozens of people have come forward. Another black eye on the martial arts. Back when I was a student in a large school in the Detroit area - Mr. Cain came to our school and did a seminar. He was a long-time friend of my Sensei. Cain was friendly and motivating - but I could see he was similar to my own teacher - speaking to us all as if we are children. We need to open our eyes in the martial arts community. There are too many people who "have been around since the 70's" and thus anything they say goes. We need to recognize the unwarranted loyalty that is propogated in many a dojo / shame based environments where creepy molesters abuse the flock and everyone looks away. We need to start looking directly at these people who feel they are beyond question simply because they can kick the crap out of everyone in their school.  

What happened with Mr. Cain is truly tragic (I'm glad he was stopped though - I'm glad he's no longer being made rich by the goup of people he was molesting freely). He became a molester most likely because HE was molested as a child and never got the help he needed. 

MARTIAL ARTISTS: START SHINING THE LIGHT ON ALL THE CREEPS. STOP PROTECTING THEM - THEY DON'T DESERVE TO BE PROTECTED; THEIR VICTIMS ARE THE ONES WHO NEED PROTECTION. STOP GIVING YOUR UNWARRANTED, UNQUESTIONING LOYALTIES TO THESE TWISTED EGOMANIACS.

I am currently being sued by my former teacher for violating a non-compete clause. I made him nearly a million dollars in a three-year period, and had to routinely swear that I would never leave, and that if I did, I would not teach anyone in the state for 25 years. I am now building a huge school in the area. I can help you do the same. Let's revolutionize this double - blackeyed industry and bring it a level of honor and positive societal contribution that it deserves but has been so often soiled by the few rotten and occasional toxic apples.

Fred Drinkwine


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## Cruentus

I have been in Detroit area for awhile, and paying attention to the Deno Cain issue for awhile as well. All I have to say is that I am glad he is in prison, and I hope that he never has the chance to work with kids again. I feel genuinly bad for not only his victims, but for his students and colleagues who looked up to him, not realizing his problem.  

On a better note, if I am not mistaken, non-compete clauses as you describe are not legally binding in Michigan. What does your attorney say?

Also, congratulations on your new school. Where is it and when does it open? Could I maybe drop by to visit sometime, as it sounds like I may be in your area?

If you'd rather not publish your personal information here, please Private Message me, or even call me.

Sincerely,

Paul Janulis
248-722-1634


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## hardheadjarhead

> He became a molester most likely because HE was molested as a child and never got the help he needed.




This isn't necessarily the case.  Recent research in this area indicates that the majority of child molesters are _not_ victims of molestation themselves.  The notion that they are molested will continue to propogate itself, however.  Gavin DeBecker wrote the introduction to Anna Salter's book "Predators" and presented this view.  Salter herself doesn't seem to agree with it, though.

Some things to keep in mind insofar as the issue of child molestation goes:

Molesters that prefer adolescent children are considered by many psychologists to be hebephiles or ephebephiles.  Contrast this to what many psychologists consider a pedophile...or a person attracted to a prepubescent child.  Some, I suspect, go across that dividing line as well.  This is a small point, and from a legal standpoint, matters not a bit.  

Not all pedophiles are child molesters.  Retired FBI profiler John Douglas and co-author Mark Olshaker pointed out in one of their many books that there might be thousands of "closeted" pedophiles who don't act on their impulses _because they know it is wrong and harmful to children._   They have a moral compass inspite of their emotional and sexual drives.

Not all child molesters are pedophiles.  Again, recent research indicates that many serial rapists rape across a wide spectrum, and many have raped girls 12 and younger.  Other molesters might be "state" molesters.  They get drunk, molest, are repulsed by it, and perhaps never do it again.  Many molesters might prefer adult women or men as partners, but molest because of opportunity.   They would not fit the classic definitions of a pedophile or hebephile.  For that definition, typically, an exclusive attraction is required.

I'm not familiar with this case, but it sounds like Cain is a preferred pedophile or hebephile, depending upon the age group he attacked.

I've suggested this elsewhere, but I think we should all pitch in, buy him a bar of soap, and suggest he drop it in the prison shower.



> There are too many people who "have been around since the 70's" and thus anything they say goes.



As one of those instructors, I resent that.  I'm not a child molester, and I neither physically or emotionally abuse my students regardless of their age.  There are other instructors on this forum that are also products of the seventies, and I don't think they deserve to be lumped in with Cain, either.



> We need to start looking directly at these people who feel they are beyond question simply because they can kick the crap out of everyone in their school.



I agree.  But they too are not necessarily child molesters.  


Regards,


Steve Scott


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## freddrinkwine

I enjoyed your response to my post regarding Cain. I can see that your response was well-thought out and sincere.

A couple of things:  The research I have read on dysfunctional behavior of many kinds (alcoholism, physical / sexual abuse, abandonment, addiction of all kinds)- these behaviors all represent unresolved trauma previously inflicted upon the person now comitting the abuse. I'm sure that some people are hardwired in the brain as pedophiles or some other "phile" and so on. But so many pedophiles and / or molesters come from past sexual abuse situations where they are simply reenacting the trauma that they experienced. Check out John Bradshaw's work: FAMILY SECRETS, HEALING THE SHAME THAT BINDS YOU, BRADSHAW ON THE FAMILY.

Next point, under no circumstances did I mean to imply that all instructors who have been around since the "70's" or whatever are molesters. 

HOWEVER - armed with the right knowledge of healthy behavior vs unhealthy behavior, one cannot deny that the martial arts culture is a haven for dysfunctional kings to rule over their shame-based theifdoms. It is a relationship that is based upon someone having power over others - with supposed philosophical / spiritual underpinnings. The problem is that so many of the rulers don't know anything other than how to punch, kick, and shame their subordinates. 

These exhalted teachers that try to highjack other people's dreams and spirits - control freaks - this is a form of molesting. It's not sexual molesting - it's mental / spiritual molesting. 

I ABSOLUTELY LOVE THE MARTIAL ARTS. 

MAYBE YOU ARE A GREAT TEACHER - I DON'T KNOW. BUT THAT'S THE FACT - I DON'T KNOW. 

And sadly when I hear that you have been around since when you have, it tells me that this man has done alot of practice, and likely has spent alot of time around soul-murdering black hole teachers - hmmm. 

I hope you are one of the good ones. 

But people like me represent a movement that is (OVER TIME) going to overtake the martial arts and you are going to see long-time, famously respected teachers - publicly laughed at and run out of town. 

Good luck to you.


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## hardheadjarhead

> And sadly when I hear that you have been around since when you have, it tells me that this man has done alot of practice, and likely has spent alot of time around soul-murdering black hole teachers - hmmm.



Could you please clarify what you just wrote?  It makes absolutely NO sense.  "This man" being me?  How does one soul-murder a "black hole teacher"?  What IS a "black hole teacher"?

Insofar as me being around for that amount of time, you make it sound as if a person of my age is AUTOMATICALLY suspect of being less moral than a younger person.  Do the older veterans of the sixties and fifties (there are a few on this forum) also fall into this category?  Are younger people automatically free of suspicion and incapable of abuse?

Isn't this...what?  Ageism?  I've been reviled for being a man and for being white...I've never been maligned for being middle aged.

As far as your view of "exalted" teachers who hijack other people's dreams, etc...you're correct.  There are a lot of those control freaks out there.  They generally do not prosper.  Some of them are in their twenties.

Bradshaw's book:  Healing the Shame...written in 1988.  Assuming he was using research of the day his material is likely over twenty years old.  Note that I said "recent" research.   The _recent_ research indicates that a large number of molesters are not victims of molestation.  

I quote Anna Salter from her book "Predators":

"In a series of three studies, the offenders who claimed they were abused as a child were 67 percent, 65 percent, and 61 percent without the threat of a polygraph.  With polygraph (and conditional immunity), the offenders who claimed they were abused as children were 29 percent, 32 percent, and 30 percent, respectively.  The polygraph groups reported approximately half the amount of victimization as children as the non polygraph groups did."

Note here the issue isn't how reliable the polygraph is...rather how reliable the offenders _thought_ the polygraph was.  

The study:  Hindman, J., and J. Peters (2001).  "Polygraph testing leads to better understanding adult and juvenile sex offenders."  _Federal probation_ 65(3): 8-15.

Salter points out that "Being victimized as a child has become a ready excuse for perpetrating child molestation.  The offender who claims he himself was victimized gets seen as less of a "monster" than one who wasn't a victim, and he gains much more empathy and support.  It is hard to trust self-reports of sex offenders about abuse in their past when such reports are in their best interest."

Here is a point, freddrinkwine, that I'd like you to consider...why frighten children and adults who are victims of molestation into believing THEY will grow up as molesters themselves?  And this with dubious evidence?  They have enough issues to deal with without an uneccessary load of anxiety about something that isn't necessarily going to happen.



Regards,

Steve


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## freddrinkwine

Steve, perhaps I should have placed a comma between soul-murdering and black hole as it referred not to one theoretically soul-murdering A black hole, but rather that the teacher in question IS a soul-murdering, black hole.

A black hole teacher is one that can be seen around in schools across the country. Look for the following:


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## hardheadjarhead

So, if I take it correctly, your point is that I (being a product of the seventies) have spent a lot of time around soul-murdering "black hole" teachers?

Is that what your saying?

If so, what is your point?  Are you suggesting I don't have a soul?  Or are you suggesting I have somehow been negatively influenced in other ways?

If not, please clarify.


Steve


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## arnisador

Perhaps it would be best to take this to e-mail.

-Arnisador
-MT Admin-


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## freddrinkwine

steve, i'm sorry - the email sent before i was done writing it. I agree with you that some of my statements were sweeping and innacurate. If you care to - please read the complete version. Further - I have no more need to discuss the negative aspects of martial arts (as the complete email states at the end). Thank you for being a long distance sounding board - it sounds like you have some real knowledge that i could learn from.

Fred Drinkwine


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## Dan Anderson

> _Originally posted by freddrinkwine _
> *
> What happened with Mr. Cain is truly tragic (I'm glad he was stopped though - I'm glad he's no longer being made rich by the goup of people he was molesting freely).
> 
> He became a molester most likely because HE was molested as a child and never got the help he needed.
> 
> *


* 

My first thought is only 3-15 years?  There are choices me all make thoughout our lifetime and we are responsible for our decisions and actions.  He made his decisions and carried out his actions and must take responsibility for them.

Yours,
Dan Anderson*


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## hardheadjarhead

Fred,

I haven't received any e-mail.

You can PM me if you like.

For those interested, the book I referenced earlier is by Anna Salter.  I do NOT recommend it for everyone.  She starts off the book my metaphorically stomach punching the reader.  Her interviews with pedophiles are extremely disturbing.

Still, for those who can handle it, it is an important book.  She provides some very useful information that professionals and parents can use.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/A...1146046/sr=2-2/ref=sr_2_2/104-4509598-3957504





> My first thought is only 3-15 years?



Makes one wonder what the typical sentence is...and how much time is actually served.  The recividism rate is incredibly high...you'd think they'd keep them in longer.



Steve


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## Tapps

I highly reccommend books by Gavin Debecker.

I use "The Gift of Fear" when I teach womens self defense courses. I also keep a copy in my counseling office at school.

He also has a book called "Protecting the gift" which deals with keeping children safe.


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## progressivetactics

We are in a society that does not punish molestors as it once did, or claimed to.  If you are medium or above medium income, you are less of a threat or criminal in the populace eye.  3 years is hardly enough time to serve for all the things taken away from the kids/victims.  Especially considering Time spent in jail is hardly "hard time".  The prisoners have more rights now then ever, and I thought prison was for people who lost their rights becuase they couldn't deal with the laws of the people. 

Roman Polanski, drugging and anally raping a youth, to R. Kelly influencing his young victims into the bed room... Our current mind set has been awarding these people with critical acclaim.  Polanski just won a huge directoral award, and R Kelly just won 4 grammys.

It is a sad time we are in, and need to change the current trend.  I feel bad for the victims of Deno Cain, and all like them.  

bb


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## Tapps

> I feel bad for the victims of Deno Cain, and all like them.



amen


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## Touch Of Death

> _Originally posted by freddrinkwine _
> *I saw the posts / questions regarding Deno Cain. Sadly, Mr. Cain was convicted of 3 counts of criminal sexual conduct with children in May of 2003. He is serving 3-15 years in prison. Authorities suspect that he had been molesting children since 1985 -dozens of people have come forward. Another black eye on the martial arts. Back when I was a student in a large school in the Detroit area - Mr. Cain came to our school and did a seminar. He was a long-time friend of my Sensei. Cain was friendly and motivating - but I could see he was similar to my own teacher - speaking to us all as if we are children. We need to open our eyes in the martial arts community. There are too many people who "have been around since the 70's" and thus anything they say goes. We need to recognize the unwarranted loyalty that is propogated in many a dojo / shame based environments where creepy molesters abuse the flock and everyone looks away. We need to start looking directly at these people who feel they are beyond question simply because they can kick the crap out of everyone in their school.
> 
> What happened with Mr. Cain is truly tragic (I'm glad he was stopped though - I'm glad he's no longer being made rich by the goup of people he was molesting freely). He became a molester most likely because HE was molested as a child and never got the help he needed.
> 
> MARTIAL ARTISTS: START SHINING THE LIGHT ON ALL THE CREEPS. STOP PROTECTING THEM - THEY DON'T DESERVE TO BE PROTECTED; THEIR VICTIMS ARE THE ONES WHO NEED PROTECTION. STOP GIVING YOUR UNWARRANTED, UNQUESTIONING LOYALTIES TO THESE TWISTED EGOMANIACS.
> 
> I am currently being sued by my former teacher for violating a non-compete clause. I made him nearly a million dollars in a three-year period, and had to routinely swear that I would never leave, and that if I did, I would not teach anyone in the state for 25 years. I am now building a huge school in the area. I can help you do the same. Let's revolutionize this double - blackeyed industry and bring it a level of honor and positive societal contribution that it deserves but has been so often soiled by the few rotten and occasional toxic apples.
> 
> Fred Drinkwine *


25 years? I don't think so. That is creative law.


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## Touch Of Death

> _Originally posted by progressivetactics _
> *We are in a society that does not punish molestors as it once did, or claimed to.  If you are medium or above medium income, you are less of a threat or criminal in the populace eye.  3 years is hardly enough time to serve for all the things taken away from the kids/victims.  Especially considering Time spent in jail is hardly "hard time".  The prisoners have more rights now then ever, and I thought prison was for people who lost their rights becuase they couldn't deal with the laws of the people.
> 
> Roman Polanski, drugging and anally raping a youth, to R. Kelly influencing his young victims into the bed room... Our current mind set has been awarding these people with critical acclaim.  Polanski just won a huge directoral award, and R Kelly just won 4 grammys.
> 
> It is a sad time we are in, and need to change the current trend.  I feel bad for the victims of Deno Cain, and all like them.
> 
> bb *


 Your wording suggests we are moving farther and farther from the utopian society we once were. Child molestation has always been alive and well in any era you choose to name;so, what era are you talking about?


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## progressivetactics

im not suggesting anything utopian, only that we currently celebrate molestors and abusers where once they were shamed.

I mentioned nothing of an era without molestors, but a much more accepting society now.


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## Zepp

> _Originally posted by progressivetactics _
> *im not suggesting anything utopian, only that we currently celebrate molestors and abusers where once they were shamed.
> 
> I mentioned nothing of an era without molestors, but a much more accepting society now. *



I don't know if I'd agree that society is more accepting, but I think that we've all become desensitized to hearing about rape and child molestation.  Just about every day on the news there's a story that somehow involves a sexually abused child.  The positive side of this is that no one sweeps this kind of the thing under the rug anymore, and we're better able to educate children about protecting themselves.


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## Nightingale

In the past, molesters weren't shamed, VICTIMS WERE!

In the past, everyone looked the other way, because discussing abuse wasn't "polite conversation".


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## progressivetactics

Nightingale,

I agree Victims were sometimes shamed and sometimes ashamed.  So were molestors.  Even tortured.  I'm not against more physical punishment for these acts.  I think pain and humiliation are 2 of the best ways for anyone to learn a lesson.


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## hardheadjarhead

> im not suggesting anything utopian, only that we currently celebrate molestors and abusers where once they were shamed.



Who is "we", Kemosabe?

I disagree.  Strongly.

The mainstream of our society doesn't provide any laudations for the act of child molestation, as you suggest.  The one reason the Michael Jackson case is so BIG is because society hates child molesters.  If Jackson receives any support at all, its from people that truly believe he didn't do it.

I personally think he's a pedophile, and that he did it.  But he, as weird as he is, also is entitled due process.  I think his supporters are deluded fans...but he still should have his day in court.

Now, obviously NAMBLA "celebrates" child molestation.  There are organizations for heterosexual pedophiles that do the same thing. 

Note:  They are the fringe.  Please don't use "we" in referring to "them".   




> I think pain and humiliation are 2 of the best ways for anyone to learn a lesson.



Child molesters rarely "learn a lesson".  The recividism rate for them is over 70%.  Most of them are sociopathic and could give a rats *** for "rules".  The only consequence of their actions they ever regret is that of getting caught.  If they learn any lessons at all, it is NOT TO GET CAUGHT NEXT TIME.




Steve


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## psi_radar

I think that we need to take a serious look at the way we sexualize children in this society. I was horrified last summer when I saw racks of girl's half-shirts with sayings such as "bootylicious" emblazened on the front in sequins.  We were in the kids' department of Kohl's looking for shorts for my 4-year old boy at the time. The shirts mentioned would have fit a 10-12 year old girl. My wife pointed out to me the other day that the ideal female form presented by the media and advertising most resembles a slightly post-pubescent girl--someone rail-thin with developed breasts but no hips or curves to speak of. This has certainly changed from the days of Ann Margret or even Farrah Fawcett as sex symbols.

I do believe that everyone is responsible for their own actions, but I think society, through fashion and the media, unfortunately provides some self-validation for people like R-Kelly.


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## hardheadjarhead

> I think that we need to take a serious look at the way we sexualize children in this society.



I can agree with that.  

Go to a kid's dance recital and look at how the teachers and parents dress up their children.  There are mainstream beauty pageants wherein the children do a bathing suit competition.  

I don't think, however, this is going to create pedophiles.  The worst thing I see from it is the blurring of sexual propriety for the kids themselves.  Adolescents may become increasingly sexual with each other.  They may be allready.

Parents are the gatekeepers for their children.  They need to screen what their children see, read, wear...and most of all who they hang out with.  If their kid's friends are dressing like that and going to the mall, they need to consider that.  School dress codes need to be enforced...or changed.  Pressure can be put on retailers to not sell that stuff.


Steve


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## dearnis.com

Interesting topic.  It is easy to say "someone made this person act this way," but is a cop-out.  Too many people do overcome the negative incidents of their youth.  Mr. Cain is responsible for his actions, and has now been called upon to answer for them.
Hopefully his conviction will send a signal to his victims and lead them to seek the help they will need to get on with their lives.

Chad

And Steve, my book habit is bad enough; no more amazon links!


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## freddrinkwine

Regarding in particular what BB of Progressive Tactics had to say about society not punishing molesters as it once did:

BB - I understand your feelings about it but I'm afraid you're way off base. While there are examples today of molesters (especially famous people) not being punished, the overwhelming history of America has been one that supports and celebrates molesters.

Let's look at the facts: In the 40's and 50's - just as many kids were being molested (and wives beaten and raped) and so on, but the "system" and popular culture deemed all of that as private family matters...What a man does at home is HIS business, and so on. Frankly, if the police ever did become involved, if they did anything at all - it would usually involve placing the abused child in a reformatory and so on. This was always going on, and basically fully approved of by society based on the punishment meeted out to any victim that dared speak out. 

Of course if a white woman was raped or often even looked at by a black man - ther'd be a hanging! This had noting to do with punishing rapists or molesters - this was simply another accepted outlet for the psychotic violent abyss that was the common male of  the time. 

Look at the sports figures of the day - the media wouldn't report all the misdeeds of the stupid idiot baseball heroes who by the way, often enjoyed sexual perversions with children of both sexes, and said victims would be provided by well-known business men and the like - you don't think the media knew? Please.

Look at the age difference between men and the women they married. It was completely acceptable - certainly envied - the greater the difference in age. Men in their forties marrying (I should say kidnapping) girls who were 13, 14, 15...years old. These people. This rapist and his victim were usually married in a church by a "holy man" who certainly knew about the difference in age. 

Speaking of Holy men - do you really think that the pedo-priest stuff is in any way, shape or form something new? It's as old as the church. An organization dedicated to God - filled to the gills with raving pedophiles. When discovered, they are simply shuffled off to another church with fresh young faces to "minister to". That dope of of pope / though shielded by the denial of legions, presides over a smut hole of human tragedy.

It goes on and on. Look at our soldiers classically and traditionally raping women in foreign lands during war. 


I don't mean to be excessively intense about this - but BB, you sound like a great guy with some real knowledge to share - BUT the problem of molesters / pedophiles, etc is not something new or something now being glorified. It is something that has subtely or overtly at times been regarded in our society as a man's (particularly white and wealthy) right to do.  This is the illness we need to arrest to really understand the problem.

FD


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## hardheadjarhead

> And Steve, my book habit is bad enough; no more amazon links!



Well, when you meet me next you can arrest me for being a pusher of an addictive substance.  Or something.

Its an excellent book for somebody in your field.  Or for any parent, for that matter.

*FRED*  don't think I'm picking on you here, but once again I don't seem to understand what you mean.  You quote "BB", and the attribution is indistinct because of  a lack of quotation marks.  You then disagree with him by essentially saying the very thing he is saying.  You don't seem to disagree with him at all.

Could you clarify?


Steve


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## freddrinkwine

Hey Steve, what I was referring to is BB's general message (at least as I say it) was that we (society in general) used to punish molesters more so than we do now. 

And when I responded - I was pointing out that that is not true. We as a society used to condone molesting because we simply would not talk about it at all. And victims who came forward were overwhelmingly the ones who would be punished (not the perpetrator).

We come from a soceity of males molesting anyone they can. It's about power and rage. While there may be anecdotal instances where a current famous person seems celebrated despite suspicions or perhaps proven allegations of such behavior, in the past the press would aide and abet the famous abusers by never reporting anything like that. 

Frankly Steve, to change the world we have to change ourselves. To Changer ourselves (for the better ) we need look at where we've been. The sad truth is that for all the talk we got in grade school about how even our country America was founded on freedom and equal rights, and so on, the truth is that America was founded on the rape, molestation, abuse, and buthering of people all in the pursuit of power. Man's hidden past is why the darkness seems to go on like business as usual. Molesting isn't anyting new. 

Fred


Fred


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## Nightingale

I'm still trying to figure out who BB is.


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## Rich Parsons

> _Originally posted by Nightingale _
> *I'm still trying to figure out who BB is. *




Progressivetactics signs his posts BB.
:asian:


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## dearnis.com

> For those interested, the book I referenced earlier is by Anna Salter. I do NOT recommend it for everyone. She starts off the book my metaphorically stomach punching the reader. Her interviews with pedophiles are extremely disturbing.



A good recommendation Steve!  You had to hot link it to Amazon, didn't you....
In all seriousness I got a great deal out of this book; in fact it should have been a police academy requirement.  BUT, as Steve said, not for everybody.  
Chad


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## TonyM.

I agree with Fred. We as a society do very little to child molesters. It doesn't seem to provide enough jobs or spend enough taxpayers money to be a viable interest for the leeches that pass for public officials here. Example: The justice department kidnapped Timothy Leary overseas in a nation we have no extradition with and brought him back to the states to serve prison time for drug charges. Meanwhile Roman Polanski is still alive and well and living in france.


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## freddrinkwine

TonyM. said:
			
		

> I agree with Fred. We as a society do very little to child molesters. It doesn't seem to provide enough jobs or spend enough taxpayers money to be a viable interest for the leeches that pass for public officials here. Example: The justice department kidnapped Timothy Leary overseas in a nation we have no extradition with and brought him back to the states to serve prison time for drug charges. Meanwhile Roman Polanski is still alive and well and living in france.




Let me make myself clear on this topic - there seems to be great confusion on what I stated regarding society and molesters.

An idea was expressed by someone on this site that we as a society don't punish molesters like we once did. I responded that this is NOT THE CASE.

What I was pointing out was that regardless of anecdotal evidence of this guy or that guy getting away with it now a days, the phenomenon of molesting used to remain entirely unexamined and unspoken about in our culture.  We never used to punish molesters in the past (in general - unless of course they were financially poor or black). Molesting was condoned in nearly all "higher" levels of society: 

Men marrying (more like kidnapping) CHILDREN and marrying them (in Churches ran by men of GOD mind you - there's approval).  

Family abuse - no matter how heinous, was referred to as a private family matter not to be aired in public - "A man's home is his castle". This belief system was ratified by the police who would basically never even consider arresting a man for beating, molesting, raping, etc his wife or kids. 

Does anyone care to refute these general claims I am making? 

Further - why do you think Shirly Temple movies were so popular with MEN? Because she was an unspoken ideal fantasy for them. 

Celebraties and pro-sports figures: How many children did those celebrated freaks RAPE with the utter complicity of VIRTUALLY THE ENTIRE MEDIA ESTABLISHMENT who would never ever touch these well-known stories with a 10-foot pole? 

This is OUR SOCIETY'S "glorious" past of dealing with child molesters. At least TODAY we openly state it as being wrong and sick. Back in the day - the only thing wrong with RAPING A CHILD was if the RAPIST was poor or BLACK.

Sincerely, Fred Drinkwine.


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## freddrinkwine

Oh and one more thing...Just it is known, I am only going through this exercise of writing this stuff down because  I feel that there are some readers of this site are interested in making the world a better place. 

One place we can start is by cleaning our own house and yard (including martial arts)

One commonly stated protocol in the martial arts that I would consider creepy and a tool that a molester uses to sift through the sheep and find the one most susceptible:

ALWAYS BE LOYAL TO YOUR TEACHER.

This is NOT inheirantly twisted - the person may have inheirited the axiom without ever really questioning it or pushing it. But look at it - it's a commandment (usually stuck in there next to be honest, respectful, disciplinned, and so on - as if UNQUESTIONING LOYALTY IS SOMEHOW AN ADMIRABLE TRAIT WHEN IN ACTUALITY IT IS THE TRAIT OF A FOOL.

Instructors that utilize this axiom are basically saying that a "good student" is one that would never turn me in (to the authorities, or parents, etc) regardless of the many ways I abuse him/her. 

I could go on and on and on - illustrating the sheer perversity of many commlonly used dojo-adages. Anyone care to dispute this?  

Fred Drinkwine


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## Black Bear

Fred Drinkwine's last post has caught the CORRECT.


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## theletch1

No dispute here.  That axiom has been around since the days when teaching a martial art could get you imprisoned or killed.  It may have served a purpose at one time but I really think that it has gone past the point of being needed.  Most dojos are based on a market economy (good product = customer loyalty) so I believe that so long as a quality product is offered the the loyalty to the instructor will be there.


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