# Please Tell Me Your Opinion On This.....



## Kaygee (Jun 3, 2012)

Friends, I would like to get your opinion about a situation:

My younger brother and I started at my current school at the same time. Of course, I am the older one, so I was always the "senior" student, but we had a lot of fun training together.
His life is quite different than mine.....I have a 15 year old daughter that loves it when I am not home, and I have a 9-5 Monday thru Friday job.

My younger brother, however, leads a different life. His first son was just born when we started training in Tang Soo Do, and he is in a business where he can work 40-70+ hours a week, with no sort of warning when he may have to be called into action. In fact, just the other night he was dispatched to a job site after being woken up at 12am. 

Our school only has three available adult classes per week, and only two of them are available during the weeknights as one is on Saturday morning. He can never make Saturday mornings because his wife works as well, and she works 12 hour shifts herself.  In short, his life is extremely manic and he is not able to make it to class consistently, which any master will tell you is a vital part in ones training!

When we joined the school, my brother informed my Sah Bum Nim all about his hectic life and my Sah Bum Nim told him that they would work with him because they understand that family comes first. 

I have only missed about 20 classes in the past two years and most of them were due to vacation, while a few were caused by injury. My brother, on the other hand, may make it once a week and then miss two weeks, then come two times a week for two weeks then miss another two weeks....there really isn't any sort of normality in his attendance.

We both received our 3rd gup rank in January. Now, my school has a strict policy on a mandatory rule of attending two tournaments a year. They also strongly, strongly insist that you attend their summer camp that is held every July. My brother only attended one tournament last year, and this year, his second son was born the day of the first tournament held this year, so of course he didn't make it. This was in April, so he missed five straight weeks of classes while caring for his new-born son, on top of his usual consistent absences earlier in the year. He also did not attend summer camp last year. So, in total, he has attended one tournament in his two years of training, missed summer camp and has a poor attendance record.

He is a very good martial artist and he studies the art and practices at home often. In fact, he states that there are several nights that he is sitting home doing nothing, but because my school is only open a couple of nights a week, he just practices at home. He does lose some technique and flexibility when he comes back from a long time away from the dojang, but you can tell that he practices.....even my Sah Ba Nim has noticed that he practices at home. But he gets frustrated because every time he feels like he is making progress, he gets pulled away from class for a period of time. Every time he starts to feel good and starts to get his kicks higher or his one steps down, he misses two weeks. This is unfortunate, but now has cost a price.

He was not provided with a test paper this month to test for 2nd gup. My master stated it was because he did not meet the attendance requirements. 
After weighing the pros and cons, he quit our school this weekend. He is now going to another school that holds class five nights a week and on Saturday. However, his decision to quit was not based solely on the fact that he cannot make class often.....in fact, while speaking to him about this, he has brought up a few points that I cannot help but "see his side" of the story when he talked to me about them.

1. He states that there are 1st gups in our school that shouldn't hold that rank! I know what everyone is going to say....what does a 3rd gup know about the art and who are they to question their master's decision to promote them? And I agree with you 100%! However, the point is still there, and I have heard it whispered amongst the other junior students as well. In fact, I brought  in a couple of my friends to try to get them to join my school and they witnessed the same thing about some of these senior students. I realize that there are different levels of people's abilities but, in some other spectators very humble and not so professional opinion, their issue is laziness, NOT ability! I will not speak on this opinion too much, because I respect my senior students, but it is difficult to ignore something when it is constantly brought to your attention.

2. One girl just received her black belt, and her attendance was worse than my brothers! Her reason? She was studying hard to get a scholarship to college and she did it! This is a major accomplishment and is definitely more important than attending Tang Soo Do class! My masters realized and excepted that! But I think to myself, how is that any different than what my brother's current situation is? 

3. We had an older student join that has had previous martial art experience in another martial art. It was not a martial art like Tang Soo Do, it was different. He is being "pushed" thru the ranks as he just tested for 6th gup this weekend, and he hasn't even been in our school for six months yet. Another student started a couple of months ago, who was a black belt in another art, and they did the same thing for him, although he quit a month later.

Now, let us take the three points above into consideration when you look at this from my brother's point of view. You could come to the conclusion that it is my master/s discretion as to when someone can test or be advanced thru ranks and what not. Looking at it that way, my brother felt "cheated" and started to question the school's policies on advancement and such, which assisted in his decision to leave the school.

I wanted to hear some opinions on this from this community. 

Let me reiterate, I am in NO WAY bashing my school or my masters! They ARE masters after all, and they are taking time out of their busy  lives to teach me Tang Soo Do, and I have nothing but gratitude for  that! I have no intention on leaving the school nor adopting my brother's view on matters. 

Again, while I see my brother's point of view, I have a different way of  looking at things. I figure I should just worry about myself and let my  masters worry about the ranking, teaching and criticizing. I have enough to learn as it is, I do not have time to worry about if the 1st gup has good technique or not....nor is it my place to provide such an opinion.

But does my brother have a valid point?


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## ks - learning to fly (Jun 3, 2012)

Kaygee said:


> . I figure I should just worry about myself and let my  masters worry about the ranking, teaching and criticizing. I have enough to learn as it is, I do not have time to worry about if the 1st gup has good technique or not....nor is it my place to provide such an opinion.
> 
> But does my brother have a valid point?



In my opinion, I think you are looking at things from a good perspective...it is your master's school and they will run things their way. Perhaps your brother needed a place that will give him the same appreciation you have for your school.

***bows***


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## seasoned (Jun 3, 2012)

In a dojo setting as in life, it's hard to please everyone to their satisfaction. Now to the issue at hand, I'm in no way siding with your instrutor, but there is always a bigger picture to consider. Techniques, are but a part of


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## seasoned (Jun 3, 2012)

seasoned said:


> In a dojo setting as in life, it's hard to please everyone to their satisfaction. Now to the issue at hand, I'm in no way siding with your instructor, but there is always a bigger picture to consider. Techniques, are but a part of


Sorry, my computer will not let me finish my thoughts without throwing me off line. I will try again later.


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## Carol (Jun 3, 2012)

I think your brother has some very valid points.  I think the school does as well.

Many schools will work with a student that has missed some classes.  Some will allow a student to catch up through private lessons...providing the scheduling and $$ work for both parties.  Sometimes it can take some creativity -- the student may have to come up with an alternative proposal, and your brother may have been focusing so much on supporting his family that he didn't pursue such a course....or perhaps he never thought of asking.

To be honest, I think your brother handled the situation in a very mature and wise fashion. He was at a school that was not a perfect fit for his line of work. He may have liked the art and the teachers just fine, but the issues borne of his attendance matters caused him to take a critical look at the school. He identified some concerns he had, and chose to remedy the situation by switching schools.....and in the process he found a school that sounds like a better fit for his life.  Its a shame that he had to leave your school, but it sounds like the choice is for the better in more ways than one.   I'm assuming he left in a polite fashion...I suspect the door is open for him should he see fit to return.

I wish all of you the best in your training


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## Tony Dismukes (Jun 3, 2012)

1) I think your brother made a good decision in switching to a school that is a better fit for his schedule and gives him more opportunities to attend class.

2) Being concerned about anyone else's rank is pointless.  To the extent that there is any point at all to belt ranking, it can be either 
a) a method for sorting athletes into evenly matched brackets in competition 
b) a tool for an instructor to keep track of what material a student is ready to work on or
c) a signal to potential students that a practitioner is certified to have the knowledge and skills of a competent instructor.

If there are students at your school who don't "deserve" to be ranked as 1st gup, how would that affect yours or your brother's practice?  They (presumably) aren't teaching, so c) is irrelevant.  With regards to a) or b) if those students are competing against opponents who have greater skill or if they are working on material they aren't ready for - how would that hurt you or your brother?  I don't believe it would.  (Contrariwise, I guess the students who were promoted too quickly might have a valid complaint if they find themselves struggling with material or tournament opponents they aren't ready for.  Strangely enough though, you rarely hear people complain about being given too high a rank.)

3) Personally I'm not a big fan of set attendance requirements.  I believe that ultimately each individual is responsible for their own training and determining how that fits with their other priorities in life.  If you attend class more often, you will learn faster.  If you attend class less often, you will learn more slowly.  As far as I'm concerned that's reward or punishment enough.


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## Carol (Jun 3, 2012)

Tony Dismukes said:


> Strangely enough though, you rarely hear people complain about being given too high a rank



Actually, the subject here has come up several times, esp. among color belts.  And nearly every time it is discussed, the student is asked why he dares question his instructor's judgment.  Who is s/he to question that of someone who must be much wiser?  Its very rare that the student gets support to slow down a bit.  

There can be some strange dichotomies in the arts....


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## Kaygee (Jun 3, 2012)

The problem with the student that is being "pushed" thru ranks, is that he is not able to keep up at all, and he has told me this. He doesn't want to question his instructors though, and states that he is in this for the long haul, so if he hits a wall and cannot progress an further, he doesn't have a problem with it.

But, just as a 3rd gup, I noticed that he is struggling with things like his stances and basic blocks, because he never had time to develop them. He cannot tell the difference between forms because he had five of them to learn in five months.....he constantly mixes two of them up together. He cannot distinguish the 8th gup self defenses from the 7th gup ones.....I had to show him how to do a proper center chop block and how to do a side kick during our last private class and he just tested for 6th gup. I am trying like hell to show up during all private sessions to help him and he is requesting the help, so it is not my idea!
I am not jealous of him at all, in fact, I feel extremely bad for him! I think when students are "accelerated" thru rank, the only one that suffers is the student. But what do I know? One day I will teach and I will probably never accelerate a student's progression.


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## Carol (Jun 3, 2012)

But if he doesn't show up for class enough times, he won't get promoted, right?  Therefore....promotion is based on showing up, and not actually performing?  

Forgive me for sounding a bit blunt -- its nothing personal at all.  I never mastered the art of tactful communications so I'm about as subtle as a sledgehammer


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## Kaygee (Jun 3, 2012)

Carol said:


> But if he doesn't show up for class enough times, he won't get promoted, right?  Therefore....promotion is based on showing up, and not actually performing?
> 
> Forgive me for sounding a bit blunt -- its nothing personal at all.  I never mastered the art of tactful communications so I'm about as subtle as a sledgehammer



Actually, I was trying to state in my original post, that the "promotion criteria" doesn't exist at all and it is all at the master's discretion.


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