# Open vs. Concealed Carry: Separate Permits?



## arnisador (Oct 8, 2008)

We had an issue recently affecting a group we belong to that uses the public library for meetings. The group is for school-age children. Someone had just gotten a pistol and was carrying it openly at the library. This made some people nervous--he is on permanent disability due to a head injury that caused him to suffer confusion, reduced mental capacity, and mood swings, and is always accompanied by his wife who looks after him, and he was following people he deemed "suspicious" in apparent hopes of having a chance to intervene--so they spoke to a librarian and learned that the library prohibited weapons, even with a permit. The couple was informed of this and left the library and group, offended that someone would raise the issue and stating that they should actually feel safer knowing an armed person was around. It's been most unfortunate.

But none of that is what I'm curious about. One member of the group later revealed that she concealed-carries. She said that in Indiana, where we live, a permit is easily obtained and allows both open and concealed carry. We've since learned that that's true. This was a great surprise to me, as I grew up in NY where it seemed you virtually needed to be a police officer to carry a concealed weapon; my recollection is that those permits went mostly to judges and DAs and parole officers who were part of the criminal justice system and had reason for concern.

The discussion among my friends at work, who come from all over the country, has now become this: Was I right to be surprised that there was no additional restriction on concealed carry? I found it quite surprising and had expected it'd be a large extra hurdle, as did my colleague from Ohio, but others found it unremarkable. Is it usual for a concealed carry permit to be separate from a basic ownership permit?


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## Grenadier (Oct 8, 2008)

arnisador said:


> The discussion among my friends at work, who come from all over the country, has now become this: Was I right to be surprised that there was no additional restriction on concealed carry? I found it quite surprising and had expected it'd be a large extra hurdle, as did my colleague from Ohio, but others found it unremarkable. Is it usual for a concealed carry permit to be separate from a basic ownership permit?



Most states do not require a basic ownership permit.  Only a handful of states have "permits to purchase," and a few require permits to merely own one, such as Illinois, and their FOID cards.  

Some states, such as Connecticut, require the permit to purchase, but allow those with concealed carry permits to bypass the permit to purchase.  Since the requirements for both types of permits are essentially the same, it makes no sense to get a permit to purchase, when you could have also had the permit to carry concealed firearms.  

There are many gun owners who simply don't have concealed carry permits, since they simply don't feel the need to carry. 

Then you have Alaska and Vermont, who don't require permits to carry (if you can legally own one, you can legally carry one concealed).  

For the most part, if someone goes through the process of getting a concealed carry permit, then I have little reason to fear such people.  They have to pass background checks, which are more stringent than the ATF4473 requirements, for the most part, and have a pretty darn good track record in terms of conduct.  

Some states have more stringent requirements than others, of course.  





It all depends on where someone has been living.  Some areas, such as much of the New England zone, are going to be at unease over seeing someone with a firearm, whereas in the Southern or Western (excluding the coast) areas, nobody's going to even bat an eye at seeing an unconcealed weapon.  

Over 80% of the states are "shall issue," where someone who has a clean record, will be given the permit.


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## Andy Moynihan (Oct 8, 2008)

Open carry is NEVER a good idea, EVER, if people don't see a badge right next to the holster.


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## thardey (Oct 8, 2008)

Oregon is an "Open Carry" state - which means that if it's legal to own, it's legal to carry openly.

This actually applies to all number of weapons, including many Martial Arts weapons. As long as you don't conceal it, you're fine. 

Usually the only place you will see weapons carried openly is out in the woods. It's not uncommon to see hikers with a hip-holster. Or people transporting their pistols to and from the range may choose to wear them, rather than box them.

Tactically, however, it's generally considered to be a bad idea, like Any said.

Our concealed license only applies to pistols, and you have to pass a background check. It is a "shall issue" state, though - which means that if there's no reason not to give you one, you'll get it.

Go 30 miles south to California, though, and you're in a whole different world.


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## arnisador (Oct 8, 2008)

I have also lived in California (for 8 years) and so I was familiar with their policies also. Again, I was surprised by Indiana's unrestrictive laws on the matter of concealed caryy (I knew open carry was typically legal, though not necessarily wise), but I don't know whether I'm right to be surprised or if my surprise is just an accident of where I was raised.


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## jks9199 (Oct 8, 2008)

thardey said:


> Oregon is an "Open Carry" state - which means that if it's legal to own, it's legal to carry openly.
> 
> This actually applies to all number of weapons, including many Martial Arts weapons. As long as you don't conceal it, you're fine.
> 
> ...


With a handful of exceptions, Virginia is the same way.


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## thardey (Oct 8, 2008)

arnisador said:


> I have also lived in California (for 8 years) and so I was familiar with their policies also. Again, I was surprised by Indiana's unrestrictive laws on the matter of concealed caryy (I knew open carry was typically legal, though not necessarily wise), but I don't know whether I'm right to be surprised or if my surprise is just an accident of where I was raised.



I wouldn't worry about it - most people in Oregon would be totally shocked by the concealed weapons laws here. Unless it's something you've run into before, it's probably going to be a surprise to anybody!


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## HM2PAC (Oct 8, 2008)

> Is it usual for a concealed carry permit to be separate from a basic ownership permit?



Here in Maine, we are an Open Carry state. Anyone who can legally own a firearm, can legally carry it in the open. There are no permits for firearm ownership, speaking in public, writing, or gathering together with acquaintances. We also worship when and how we see fit.

Concealed Carry Permits are "Shall Issue". That means if the person meets the criteria for a CCW Permit, the local authority must give the permit.



> Open carry is NEVER a good idea, EVER, if people don't see a badge right next to the holster.



I don't believe this is good information. Absolutes are rarely good advice.I openly carry on occasion and have never had a problem with it. If you are worried about the opinions of others, then do what suits you.


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## Deaf Smith (Oct 8, 2008)

Not to long ago I had to drive to New Mexico. 

So here I was packing concealed per Texas Laws. Then when I hit the border, I stopped, took off my jacket, and 'VOLA' packed open per New Mexico Law (this was before the CCW carry they now have.) Driving back to Texas I had to repeat the procedure in reverse.

And then I once drove to Vermont.... Man was that a trip. I had a folder with each states laws and what was legal and illegal as for both carrying *AND SELF DEFENSE LAWS*. Make sure you guys know the laws are mucho different as for what is legal in self defense to. Bone up on those laws to as well as what and how you can carry any weapon.

Now as for the open carry. I'm not hugly bubbly over it. I can see several ways to get into difficulties. Gun snachings, pre-emptive attacks (they know you have a gun so they shoot you first), false alarms, people on power trips flashing their weapons, etc... but at the same time the way the law is written over concealed weapons, if your gun is spotted you can have the license suspended if the cops come.

Overall, I prefer my weapon concealed. Even when hunting with a rifle, my CCW gun is concealed so the deer won't know I'm armed.

Deaf


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