# Feet



## Kirk (Mar 20, 2002)

Having started out in TKD, I've always went barefoot out on
the floor when I started Kenpo.  My instructor wears wrestling
shoes and most of the "shoe wearers" wear cross trainers.
I always felt that yes, odds are high that if I ever get into a fight,
I'll be wearing shoes.  So if I worked out barefoot, then shoes
would just enhance the impact of a kick.  Well today, I worked
out in cross trainers, and was a klutz!  The traction on those
things were intense!  I was doing Short1 like I'd just learned
it today!  I have a fear of someone breaking into my house
while I'm sleeping, and me having to kick their *** naked!  (no
shoes either).  So my question is .. shoes, or no shoes when
you train?


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## Goldendragon7 (Mar 20, 2002)

Well, I'm pretty traditional as far as this goes.... in the beginning NO shoes.  Later on however it is good to use all kinds of shoes to adjust to different environments (8 considerations).  they can throw you off..... shoes or no shoes.

In the beginning I like to be able to form the feet well without shoes.

Later on feeling the difference and understanding the reality of actually having shoes is necessary.

that's my short response.

:asian:


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## Kirk (Mar 20, 2002)

Thanks for expressing your opinion on something so mundane.
I think I'll keep the shoes off, for the time being.  An attacker
wouldn't care how well I do short 1.


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## Goldendragon7 (Mar 20, 2002)

Foot positions are the base to the Stance (Most important Basic).

Proper body alingment is vital,  especially in the beginning.

:asian:


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## Klondike93 (Mar 21, 2002)

Having started in TKD, I've allways gone barefoot. The school I help teach at we don't wear shoes unless it's the Cardio class.
The kenpo school I go to they all wear shoes, so I started to wear mine as well. when I first started wearing them I too felt like a klutz, but now I don't even think about them.


:asian:


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## Turner (Mar 21, 2002)

It is my personal belief that we should train in shoes primarily. Its very different to kick and move in shoes and many people miss the fact that some of your kicks that you execute while barefoot will break your ankle while wearing shoes.

That said, I go against my personal belief and train without shoes because my class contains a lot of ground work and so padding is almost always down and I don't want the shoes to tear it up... stuff is expensive.


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## Rob_Broad (Mar 21, 2002)

I always train in my Otomix, I like the feel of them and since I doubt I will ever attacked in my barefeet I like the idea of shoes.  For the first 8 yrs of my training I went barefoot so I know both sides of the coin.  Train both ways if you can.


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## tunetigress (Mar 21, 2002)

Oh how I love my shoes! I tore my poor delicate little feet to shreds getting through Orange Belt and have been an otomix user ever since.  I can tell how hard I've been training by how stretched out and worn my otomix are.  Am now on my third pair.  The old ones get to become my regular shoes to just wear around, so I guess my feet will never have to deal with unpredictable footwear.  Kind of encourages me to practice bits and pieces of stuff throughout my day as the spirit moves me.  You should see my version of the Kitchen Kata!  LOL


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## Blindside (Mar 21, 2002)

Well, I wouldn't be caught without my asics wrestling shoes.

I now pretty much do all martial arts related stuff in them, sparring, forms, self-defense, whatever.  I have however left heel print bruises on people with my sidekick before (you know you get that nice perfectly semi-circle bruise somewhere on the ribs).

I have trained without, but switched to shoes when I could.  I have even done a class in my White's (10' forester boots) to prove a point.  Oh, by the way, knife edge kicks with a 1' heel don't work well.

Plus if you watch alot of older karateka, their feet are flat like a duck's because of broken down arches.  My feet hurt enough from poor arches already.

Lamont


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## Kirk (Mar 21, 2002)

:bird: 


ugh, the knife edge side kick .. HATE that kick!
Cause I can't do it properly :rofl:


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## Yari (Mar 21, 2002)

No shoes.

Many reasons

- No dirt on the floor / mat
- Doenst hurt uke that much
- Easier to learn balance on foot first. It doesn't change, but foot ware changes often
- Gives my feet a chance to feel the free outdoors
- It's traditional

But, I've done out door selfdefences with many different uke's along a path, and that's with shoes. That's when I pratice my style on shoes.

Talking about shoes and real life practice, makes me think of how about pants, jacket or any other clothing? On yourself or uke. Trying to make an atemi on somebody who has a think winter jacket isn't that easy, or some kind of hold.


/Yari


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## TLH3rdDan (Mar 21, 2002)

personally i prefer asics wrestling boots they are awesome... as far as training barefoot being traditional... i dont think so... thats more of a cultural custom than a part of martial arts... the only reason that it made it here is because the GI's that first brought it back were told to take off their boots during their training over seas simply because that was the custom you dont wear shoes indoors... yes they had tatami sandles but ever try doing a kick in a pair of sandels lol they ussually end up across the room... so when they came back to the states and started teaching they had been so used to removing their shoes they started having their students do it also... just my opinion... same as my view on using japanese in class we are not in japan and we do not speak japanese so why use it???


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## clapping_tiger (Mar 21, 2002)

Just to throw in my 2 cents.

I prefer to workout in shoes. However a good point was brought up earlier about dirt on the floor.  I wear an old pair of cross trainers that I use only on the mats.  So not only are they clean, but they are worked in and the bottoms have less traction.  I try not to worry about hurting someone because I am wearing shoes because I feel you should develop the control you need to adapt to the situation. Some people I can go almost full bore on, and others you need to control your punches, and kicks.  If you kick them a little too hard, well it is karate and you are going to get a bruise sometime, out on the street the attacker will have shoes or even boots on. These are just my feelings on this.  I know everybody trains for different reasons, so you need to find out from your workout partner so you know what level you can take it too.  A good rule of thumb is the lower belt dictates the level of intensity.


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## tunetigress (Mar 22, 2002)

Wearing street shoes on the floor would be very rude, not to mention 'unsanitary', and I use my newest pair of trainers strictly for indoor mat work only.  But you also gotta consider in this day and age, the spread of virus and disease by running around barefoot.  At least I know where the insides of my shoes have been, and never have any problems with warts, athete's foot infection or getting stuck by something some idiot has dropped.


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## clapping_tiger (Mar 22, 2002)

> _Originally posted by tunetigress _
> 
> *But you also gotta consider in this day and age, the spread of virus and disease by running around barefoot*



This is true; we had 2 guys come into our school that nobody would work with because their toenails were long and green.  Their personal hygiene was horrible.  Our instructor, along with several students kept saying something to them, and rather then clean themselves up they left. Thank god.  I didn't want to get stabbed with those deadly weapons.  If they had worn shoes we only would have had to deal with their smell.


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## Kirk (Mar 22, 2002)

> _Originally posted by clapping_tiger _
> 
> *
> 
> This is true; we had 2 guys come into our school that nobody would work with because their toenails were long and green.  Their personal hygiene was horrible.  Our instructor, along with several students kept saying something to them, and rather then clean themselves up they left. Thank god.  I didn't want to get stabbed with those deadly weapons.  If they had worn shoes we only would have had to deal with their smell. *




Ew.

:barf: :barf: :barf: :barf:


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## Goldendragon7 (Mar 23, 2002)

Oh My Gawd!

I am about to ....:barf: 

toe jam and earl !!


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## Klondike93 (Mar 23, 2002)

Your just too funny.........

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: 


:asian:


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## tunetigress (Mar 23, 2002)

OMG I just had this 'old teacher' flashback! " And YOU little boy, what do you have inside YOUR Otomix????? "    Ack, that's worse than a Junior High 'locker check!'


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## Goldendragon7 (Mar 23, 2002)

Yes, that's why there is a "Studio Policy's List" and on it is personal hygiene, nails, toes, bathe, clean uniform etc. etc. etc. :soapbox:

Tune or myself do not need any unusual odors!!!  That includes the occasional accidental release during class........ Studio rule # 4 (No Beans or Cabbage Stew for a day before attending class)  There will be no extra credit for this gaseous expression!

:asian:


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## Seig (Apr 20, 2002)

I do both barefoot and with shoes.  Shoes have to be dedicated soft sole martial-art type shoes.


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## Mike Att (Apr 21, 2002)

Hi, I am knew to the forum, but would like to weigh in with my opinion.

I always train in shoes, whether regular sneakers or sometimes even boots. The type of footwear I would wear in the street (though not the actual footwear I wear in the street for sanitary purposes). 

I trained for many years in just wrestling shoes, this is just like training in barefeet as far as mobility and kicking goes. Wrestling shoes (or any light footwear) does not provide the same weight that a regular sneaker, or shoe would provide. That extra weight changes your mobility and the speed and structure of a kick.

The way you move your feet in wreslting shoes on an even dojo mat is a lot different then the way you would move in regular sneakers or Timberlines in an uneven parking lot. Also, kicking in barefeet and with wreslting shoes, you are kicking with the ball of the foot instead of the point of the shoe, which you would use if kicking with shoes on.

Just my .02 cents,

Mike Att


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## Hollywood1340 (Apr 21, 2002)

I should note I train in Judo and Hapkido not kenpo, but I train in my TKD shoes. The Minor Inside Reap hurts more in shoes, and it doesn't hurt as much when people step on my feet. And it really helps in grappling. Bruises=fun!
In TKD I train barefooted because I keep my tonenails painted and it's great to watch their suprise when my foot hits their face!


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## Mike Att (Apr 21, 2002)

> In TKD I train barefooted because I keep my tonenails painted and it's great to watch their suprise when my foot hits their face!



The only time I kick someone in the face is when they are on the ground...and there are no witnesses.


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## Klondike93 (Apr 21, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Mike Att _
> 
> *Hi, I am knew to the forum, but would like to weigh in with my opinion.
> 
> ...



Did you ever get embarassed training in just shoes? Me, I know no body wants to see me train in just shoes  



(humor, I hope)

:asian:


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## Hollywood1340 (Apr 21, 2002)

I know, I know "I'll kick you in the head, but I'll never kick above the waist". On the street I live that dictum. In sport however, two points beats one point anyday. And if I knock em down, three points. You do the math kiddies.


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## Goldendragon7 (Apr 21, 2002)

I never......... punch a man when he is down........

I kick him .... it's easier!!!!

:rofl: 
:asian:


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## Seig (Apr 23, 2002)

THis probably belongs in humor and not here but what the heck...
Back when I was a Ni-Dan with a chip on my shoulder I used to write "Duck!" on the bottom of my foot before sparring....
Along those same lines, and the same time frame,  one night I walked into the dojo where some of the kids (15-18 yo) had one of the underbelts who was about 6'4" holding a punching target over his head for them to kick it.  Well, there was "something" between me and this particular guy at the time.  So, when my 5'8" frame walked in the door he looked right at me and said "Sensei, I'll bet you 20 bucks you can't kick this pad."
I said, "It's a bet!".  He held it all the way over his head as I calmyly walked up to him and blasted him with a full front kick to the stomach, I then walked over to where he dropped the pad and kicked it and said "Pay up!"  He and I shortly thereafter mended our differences and became good friends.  And yes, he paid me.


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## Klondike93 (Apr 23, 2002)

> he looked right at me and said "Sensei", I'll bet you 20 bucks you can't kick this pad.I said, "It's a bet!". He held it all the way over his head as I calmyly walked up to him and blasted him with a full front kick to the stomach, I then walked over to where he dropped the pad and kicked it and said "Pay up!"




And the wiseness of the teacher is shown once again.

Funny Seig  :rofl: :rofl: 

:asian:


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## Goldendragon7 (Apr 23, 2002)

he's mean!


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## GouRonin (Apr 23, 2002)

> _Originally posted by tunetigress _
> *Ack, that's worse than a Junior High 'locker check!*



Speaking of checks. The first few times I worked with some of my friend's student's at his school I would ask who was wearing a cup before I'd kick, rip, smack, punch their groin. After that I started asking who was wearing a cup after I had already smacked a guy in the groin who I KNEW was wearing a cup. Then I stopped. Now when I walk onto the floor it's kinda funny how many of them excuse themselves for a moment to go get their cups on. Being the grumpy person I am I wait until they come back. Inside I'm laughing, but I never show it. Heh heh heh

Of course I don't show up to every class so it's crap shoot for them. Many of them have either taken to wearing it all the time or at least bringing it all the time. I always tell the story of how their instructor cracked my jock with a kick at a Planas seminar. That usually starts people on the road to wearing them.


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## Kirk (Apr 23, 2002)

> _Originally posted by GouRonin _
> 
> *I always tell the story of how their instructor cracked my jock with a kick at a Planas seminar. That usually starts people on the road to wearing them. *




That's what did it for me!


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## Seig (Apr 24, 2002)

I may be mean, but it's 20 bucks I didn't have before!:angel: 
And after that he started listening to what I was trying to teach him.  Rule #1 of a street encounter, go home when it's done.


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## Klondike93 (Apr 24, 2002)

When we do the systema class, we have to take our cups off.
We're told it's so you learn to move your body out of the harms way.  I find it uncomfortable cause I'm use to wearing one in class, but you don't usually wear one on the street so I see the point.


:asian:


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## Goldendragon7 (Apr 24, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Klondike93 _
> 
> *When we do the systema class, we have to take our cups off.
> We're told it's so you learn to move your body out of the harms way, but you don't usually wear one on the street so I see the point.
> ...



Again, yes that is true but you also don't put your snooks (groin package) on the line intentionally either.  Since you are "training" it adds an element of protection in the event you don't block or  someone pulls of a good move in there.   Safety equipment was made for a reason, I realize that they want you not to "depend" on a cup or other gear either however, even with a cup I don't know about you but if you get hit there it is still uncomfortable (even with the new and improved larger cups that are fur lined (in the old days I had to make a custom cup - blend 2 together to get the proper size).

So wear your cup so you can practice every day..... one slip and you lose a nard or you are out for days........ Use the correct head man!!  LOL:rofl: 

:asian:


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## D.Cobb (Apr 25, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Goldendragon7 _
> 
> *
> 
> ...




After I had been learning Kenpo for about 2 months, I met my instructors teacher, he had popped into the school for a visit and stayed, to instruct for a while. We were learning 'Sword & Hammer'. Anyhoo, when he hammered he managed to ping me right on the end of..... well... you know...
Seeing the expression on my face, :erg:, he asks, "aren't you wearing a box?" (that's what we call cups in Aust.)
I said, "No sir"
He said, "GET ONE!!" and pinged me again.
Next class, I had one. :erg: 

--Dave


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## Klondike93 (Apr 25, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Goldendragon7 _
> 
> *
> 
> ...



I agree with what you say GD, I don't like taking the thing off cause I don't trust anybody. I always wear one and try like crazy to get out of the way of something directed that direction.

I'm also a believer in contact when learning a technique. You have to hit to know what it feels like hitting the required target.
I don't mean blasting the target either, just making contact. 

:asian:


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## Goldendragon7 (Apr 25, 2002)

I agree

:asian:


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## Rob_Broad (Apr 25, 2002)

I like to keep the jewels firmly locked away for safety.  In actuality my wife keeps them for me and only lets them out for special occaisons:rofl:


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## Klondike93 (Apr 25, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Bonehead _
> 
> *I like to keep the jewels firmly locked away for safety.  In actuality my wife keeps them for me and only lets them out for special occaisons:rofl: *



Hey, I think I resemble that remark too.....:rofl: 


:asian:


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## Goldendragon7 (Apr 26, 2002)




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## Kirk (Apr 26, 2002)

I can keep my jewels wherever, and whenever I want!
And I have my wife's permission to say so!


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## Goldendragon7 (Apr 26, 2002)

Now we know who controls the "Jewels" in your house!  LOL:rofl:


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## Rob_Broad (Apr 26, 2002)

I find they loosen up the family jewel thing if you buy them jewels, diamonds, rubies, whatever.


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## Goldendragon7 (Apr 26, 2002)

We all are not wealthy Canadians llike you Mister!!!  :rofl:


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## Rob_Broad (Apr 26, 2002)

Oh okay, us with our 40 cent dollar.


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## Goldendragon7 (Apr 26, 2002)




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## Rob_Broad (Apr 26, 2002)

I thought you would find it funny.  But we do have free health care even though you wait 2 days to get a band-aid.  Don't ask about stitches, the wait is too long.  You are better off to get a sild worm and do them yourself


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## Goldendragon7 (Apr 26, 2002)

EEEEppppppppppp!!!


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## Rob_Broad (Apr 26, 2002)

We book a womans second Dr.s appointment the day she finds out she is pregnant, that way she gets to see the doctor just in time to deliver unless it is a wednesday, they have to have time to play golf!


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