# Wing Chun



## Trapboxer (Jun 2, 2020)

What do you consider SLT drills?

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## yak sao (Jun 2, 2020)

Dan chi sau would be a good example


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## Danny T (Jun 3, 2020)

Battle Punching
Stance work
Turning stance work
Triangle stepping
Stepping forward
Stepping rearward
Circle-stepping

Balance drills. Standing on one leg, Pistol squats
Kicking drills
Kneeing drills while standing on one leg.

Empty hand drills:
Bong Sao drills
Jut Sao drills
Tan Sao drills
Huen Sao drills
Jop Sao drills
Pak Sao drills
Lop sao drills
Biu Sao drills

Basic Trap and strike drill
Pak Da
Lop Da
Pak Sot
Pak Sot, Bong, Tan switching to the opposite side
Inside trapping drills
Outside trapping

Gates Drills

Just to get started.


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## ShortBridge (Jun 3, 2020)

I started to answer this question and stopped, because I struggled a little bit with the openness of it, so no intent to criticize anyone else's answer, but I'm curious:



Danny T said:


> ...
> Turning stance work
> Triangle stepping
> Stepping forward
> ...



None of these things are expressed or implied in Si Lim Tao. I've trained in two lineages and the methods of bringing beginners along were different. The lineage I teach under does get people stepping, shifting, kicking, moving early in their their training, whereas my first one generally limited your training to correspond to the form you had been taught. I understand both perspectives, but how do you consider these things SLT drills?


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## Callen (Jun 3, 2020)

Trapboxer said:


> What do you consider SLT drills?


To answer this, one should probably question what SNT/SLT teaches. The same thing could be asked about each of the forms, for that matter. Also, different lineages have different answers to these questions.

The curriculum that is followed dictates a lot of it as well (I'm not saying any curriculum is right or wrong). Some lineages view Siu Nim Tao, Chum Kiu and Biu Jee as "levels", or place-markers of skill while learning. In implementing this idea, certain drills are taught in the SNT stage, certain drills are taught in the CK stage, and other drills are for BJ etc... This is even carried out with weapons forms as well.

On the other hand, there are also lineages that have a curriculum that utilizes every drill as a way to train the whole system; regardless of the form that is being learned. In this method each drill is trained with all of the core concepts of Wing Chun in mind, always implementing the system's principals. But to do this effectively, all open hand forms are learned before partner drills are introduced.

It is easy to confuse applications with drills. Likewise it is also a mistake to think that everything in each form has a direct, complimenting application or drill. Many of the shapes in the forms teach placement, train the idea of creating space or develop a certain attribute that contributes to a complete action (ex: parts of the whole).


Danny T said:


> Battle Punching
> Stance work
> Turning stance work
> Triangle stepping
> ...


Do you consider these to be SNT/SLT drills, or are they beginner drills?


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## Kung Fu Wang (Jun 3, 2020)

Callen said:


> Do you consider these to be SNT/SLT drills, or are they beginner drills?


When a new student comes to you, you don't have to teach him SNT right away. You can teach him how to 

- punch,
- kick,
- move around,
- ...

When you start to teach SNT, that new student will have some foundation built up already.

I believe this is the right order of teaching?


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## Danny T (Jun 4, 2020)

Not everything can be learned, developed, and understood all at the same time.
I see the different parts of the system as 'phases' for learning and development. Each phase builds upon the other but nothing is exclusive to a particular phase once learned and understood. (there is a difference in having knowledge and/or a skill and understanding said knowledge/skill)


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## geezer (Jun 4, 2020)

ShortBridge said:


> I started to answer this question and stopped, because I struggled a little bit with the openness of it, so no intent to criticize anyone else's answer, but I'm curious:  None of these things are expressed or implied in Si Lim Tao...



I had the same reaction to Danny's post, especially when he topped the list with "Battle Punches" which (If we are talking about the same thing) I learned when I started training the long pole.

That said, the "Battle Punches" I learned are similar to what would be very basic curriculum in other, more long-bridge systems, so I guess you could teach it whenever. I just don't equate it with SNT. (The following is a "stock photo" -not anyone from my lineage ...)


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## geezer (Jun 4, 2020)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> When you start to teach SNT, that new student will have some foundation built up already.
> I believe this is the right order of teaching?



I usually start a student with setting up the _stance_ (yee gee kim yeung ma), and then the _front punch _(yat gee chung kuen), then add _circle-hand/huen-sau_ and withdrawing the elbow to chamber. Then we show a few possible applications, and finally link these pieces together ....which is the exactly the first section of Siu Nim Tau. That's lesson #1.


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## wckf92 (Jun 4, 2020)

My experience is very similar to Danny's... Though, I'm not going to say what I learned or the order I learned it are "slt level drills", etc. For example, in my lineage one learns footwork patterns from the more advanced stages of the curriculum right from the very beginning. So, SLT per se... probably not.


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## Oily Dragon (Jun 4, 2020)

Fist sets don't contain application details either, let alone drills.  This is where the sifu matters most, bridging that gap.  

In my experience drills are very instructor dependent...some rely on very common drills, some throw out certain drills or make other ones up based on some aspects of the fist sets.  In several styles in particular, weighted drills are even more important.

Some of my own favorite drills could be attributed to dozens of styles, including Wing Chun.  Pole wrapping drills are a good example, they incorporate several very common techniques, and can be done with or without a partner.


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## Danny T (Jun 4, 2020)

geezer said:


> I had the same reaction to Danny's post, especially when he topped the list with "Battle Punches" which (If we are talking about the same thing) I learned when I started training the long pole.
> 
> That said, the "Battle Punches" I learned are similar to what would be very basic curriculum in other, more long-bridge systems, so I guess you could teach it whenever. I just don't equate it with SNT. (The following is a "stock photo" -not anyone from my lineage ...)


Battle Punches equate to 'Chain Punching'


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## Kung Fu Wang (Jun 4, 2020)

Danny T said:


> Battle Punching
> Stance work
> Turning stance work
> Triangle stepping
> ...


I like your drill approach instead of form approach.

People always like to ask, should one develop his

1. toolbox first? or
2. foundation first? 

I prefer 1.

When I develop my 

- toolbox, I can also develop my foundation at the same time. 
- foundation, I may not know what tool that I'm trying to develop.


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## Callen (Jun 4, 2020)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> When a new student comes to you, you don't have to teach him SNT right away. You can teach him how to
> 
> - punch,
> - kick,
> ...


Understood, and I agree with most of your points.

I will also add that it depends entirely on the amount of importance that is placed on forms by a given curriculum. This is based on the understanding of what the forms are thought to teach. For example, depending on how the sections of SNT/SLT are interpreted, drills and applications will vary in when and why they are taught. This goes for the interpretation of the other open-hand forms as well. Obviously this is why this particular topic is an age-old debate amongst different lineages.

I think the original question was, "What do you consider SLT drills?" So given that, my answer to the question was based on how I interpret what SNT/SLT teaches and how it relates back to the system as a whole (this would apply to the other forms as well). Naturally we will see different responses to this question, and that's where we can all learn and grow as a community.


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## Danny T (Jun 4, 2020)

I can take any drill from any part of the system and make a beginner, an intermediate, or an advanced level variation of it.
SLT drills would be the drills associated  with what we teach during the SLT phase of our curriculum.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Jun 4, 2020)

Danny T said:


> I can take any drill from any part of the system and make a beginner, an intermediate, or an advanced level variation of it.


Agree! This is very important.

Any technique can be trained in beginner, intermediate, and advance level. 

For example,

beginner level - vertical punch
intermediate level - static horizontal punch
advance level - dynamic horizontal punch.


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## geezer (Jun 4, 2020)

Danny T said:


> Battle Punches equate to 'Chain Punching'



Terminology differences. No two lineages seem to use the same terms, whether in Cantonese, Mandarin, or English. I now  see that you mean what we call "Chain Punching" (lin wan kuen) in my lineage. Yeah, that's a really important place to start.

The _other_ punch (in the picture) is what we call the "arrow punch" or "battle punch". It's a sideways punch combined with lateral stepping, delivered from a deep horse stance and, in my lineage, is primarily used to train integration of body movement and stepping for the long pole. I did see a Duncan Leung lineage instructor demonstrate its use in sparring, but I'm not a big fan. If applied exactly as it's done in training, it is very committed and not as mobile as other options. It makes much more sense when holding a long pole.


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## ShortBridge (Jun 4, 2020)

geezer said:


> ...I did see a Duncan Leung lineage instructor demonstrate its use in sparring, but I'm not a big fan...



Do you remember who it was, out of curiosity?


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## Callen (Jun 4, 2020)

Danny T said:


> SLT drills would be the drills associated with what we teach during the SLT phase of our curriculum


That makes sense. It seems to be a common method.

You listed "Turning stance work" and "Biu Sao drills" in your SLT drills list earlier in this thread, if you don't mind sharing, could you explain the purpose behind teaching those specific drills during the SLT phase of your curriculum?

Honest curiosity, no criticism. I will be happy to go with private messaging on this as well


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## geezer (Jun 4, 2020)

ShortBridge said:


> Do you remember who it was, out of curiosity?



Yeah, if memory serves me right it was a retired Lt. Col. of the ... hmmm ...Airforce(?) --named Don Presto (?) from CA. A short athletic guy (hard to believe he was old enough to be retired) who IMHO seemed to really know his stuff. Anyway he was in town because his son was attending ASU in Tempe.

Wait...  wait  ...I found him- I love google! Check this out:  Donald Presto | Instructors


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## wckf92 (Jun 4, 2020)

Callen said:


> That makes sense. It seems to be a common method.
> 
> You listed "Turning stance work" and "Biu Sao drills" in your SLT drills list earlier in this thread, if you don't mind sharing, could you explain the purpose behind teaching those specific drills during the SLT phase of your curriculum?
> 
> ...


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## ShortBridge (Jun 4, 2020)

geezer said:


> Yeah, if memory serves me right it was a retired Lt. Col. of the ... hmmm ...Airforce(?) --named Don Presto (?) from CA. A short athletic guy (hard to believe he was old enough to be retired) who IMHO seemed to really know his stuff. Anyway he was in town because his son was attending ASU in Tempe.
> 
> Wait...  wait  ...I found him- I love google! Check this out:  Donald Presto | Instructors



Thanks. I trained with him once some years back. Good guy. 

I have not used or seen that punching used in sparring, though we're from the same lineage. Honestly, it's still not on my list of things to try, but maybe this plants a seed.


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## wckf92 (Jun 4, 2020)

ShortBridge said:


> Thanks. I trained with him once some years back. Good guy.
> 
> I have not used or seen that punching used in sparring, though we're from the same lineage. Honestly, it's still not on my list of things to try, but maybe this plants a seed.



I think maybe some look at it literally(?). 
For example, that exercise or "drill" encompasses several things at once. It is training a low horse; and the 'arrow' punch, and the gwai ma (in the transition phase of the drill if you were trained the same as me). BUT, if you disect it from an applications point of view, the arrow punch mechanics are seen throughout the lineage, etc. See what I mean? 

In other words, the push/pull nature of that "battle" punch (Geezers words, not mine) is just one small part of what is being trained. 

Not sure I'm making sense but...


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## Danny T (Jun 4, 2020)

geezer said:


> Terminology differences. No two lineages seem to use the same terms, whether in Cantonese, Mandarin, or English. I now  see that you mean what we call "Chain Punching" (lin wan kuen) in my lineage. Yeah, that's a really important place to start.
> 
> The _other_ punch (in the picture) is what we call the "arrow punch" or "battle punch". It's a sideways punch combined with lateral stepping, delivered from a deep horse stance and, in my lineage, is primarily used to train integration of body movement and stepping for the long pole. I did see a Duncan Leung lineage instructor demonstrate its use in sparring, but I'm not a big fan. If applied exactly as it's done in training, it is very committed and not as mobile as other options. It makes much more sense when holding a long pole.


Yep Lin Wan Choi or Kuen. 
The Pole punch we call 'the pole punch' or the thrusting punch and we use it (I have heard is called the arrow punch as well). Not specifically as in the say ping die ma stance but it is use.


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## Danny T (Jun 4, 2020)

ShortBridge said:


> I started to answer this question and stopped, because I struggled a little bit with the openness of it, so no intent to criticize anyone else's answer, but I'm curious:
> 
> 
> 
> None of these things are expressed or implied in Si Lim Tao. I've trained in two lineages and the methods of bringing beginners along were different. The lineage I teach under does get people stepping, shifting, kicking, moving early in their their training, whereas my first one generally limited your training to correspond to the form you had been taught. I understand both perspectives, but how do you consider these things SLT drills?


I believe when one completes the system and understands 'all' of the implications we return to SLT. Why? Because everything is referenced in SLT. 
Do you not move your feet when first getting into your stance and again when closing your stance in SLT? Some lineages use pivoting others use a circling movement. Both imply footwork as well as other things. Greater expressions are developed in other parts of the system but the implication is there even if it isn't directly shown as a specific step.


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## Danny T (Jun 4, 2020)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> I like your drill approach instead of form approach.
> 
> People always like to ask, should one develop his
> 
> ...


For me it depends on the students needs and how long will I have to train him/her for their goals.
A student who comes with no need for their skills immediately will be taught differently than an LEO or a security guard, or bouncer who may well be required to have a usable skill tonight.


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## wckf92 (Jun 4, 2020)

Danny T said:


> I believe when one completes the system and understands 'all' of the implications we return to SLT. Why? Because everything is referenced in SLT.



Probably one of the most accurate and profound things ever stated on this forum. Well said my friend.


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## Danny T (Jun 4, 2020)

wckf92 said:


> Probably one of the most accurate and profound things ever stated on this forum. Well said my friend.


Why Thank You. There are a lot who disagree. But I believe they don't understand the whole system as yet...


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## Callen (Jun 4, 2020)

wckf92 said:


> Yeah this is an example of what I was referring to in my post. I.e...in my upbringing you learn turning aka "shifting" of the horse in your first week or so. Even though it is "technically speaking" not intro'd in a "form" until Chum kil/kiu. There are other examples but hopefully this helps illustrate my point.


Indeed it does, thanks for clarifying!

If a practitioner is learning SNT/SLT, I can see how your examples of training aspects of Chum Kiu are readying them for the next form... which makes sense. It's the _drills_ perspective of this topic that I find more interesting.

For those who are using this style of curriculum for teaching, I'm really curious how drills that include concepts like Juen Mah and Biu Sau actually help a beginner who is just learning to grasp and understand SNT/SLT. What are the direct benefits from those specific drills, and how do those benefits translate back to SNT/SLT? I mean, if you're going to drill during the SNT/SLT "stage" then why not drill for concepts that are actually found in the first form. There are so many, yeah?

Again, genuinely curious 





wckf92 said:


> Great topic! So good to see some life come back to this forum after long silences!


I agree completely! I appreciate everyone's contribution to the community.


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## wckf92 (Jun 4, 2020)

Callen said:


> What are the direct benefits from those specific drills, and how do those benefits translate back to SNT/SLT? I mean, if you're going to drill during the SNT/SLT "stage" then why not drill for concepts that are actually found in the first form. There are so many, yeah?



Great follow up man. Thanks. 
So, in general, to respond to your question: one of the reasons we are trained very early on in "advanced" methods is because these methods take a long time to learn/internalize in order to make use of them when SHTF. Does that make sense? Hopefully it does... thanks again!


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## ShortBridge (Jun 4, 2020)

wckf92 said:


> I think maybe some look at it literally(?).
> For example, that exercise or "drill" encompasses several things at once. It is training a low horse; and the 'arrow' punch, and the gwai ma (in the transition phase of the drill if you were trained the same as me). BUT, if you disect it from an applications point of view, the arrow punch mechanics are seen throughout the lineage, etc. See what I mean?
> 
> In other words, the push/pull nature of that "battle" punch (Geezers words, not mine) is just one small part of what is being trained.
> ...



Sure, of course. But, we don't generally move around in horse stance and with a bladed lead with empty hands the way that we might with the gwan. I'm not judging, just saying, I've personally never practiced that from a "sparring" perspective.


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## Gerry Seymour (Jun 4, 2020)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> When a new student comes to you, you don't have to teach him SNT right away. You can teach him how to
> 
> - punch,
> - kick,
> ...


That's my preferred order, though I've never really experienced the inverse, so maybe I just don't "get it". This is one of the things that intrigues me about systems like WC that seem to introduce the movement before the techniques that movement supports.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Jun 4, 2020)

gpseymour said:


> That's my preferred order, though I've never really experienced the inverse, so maybe I just don't "get it". This is one of the things that intrigues me about systems like WC that seem to introduce the movement before the techniques that movement supports.


For striking art, the teacher should teach "power generation" before anything else.

From

static punch -> dynamic punch,

the footwork will be introduced.

How to block your opponent's punch, that should be the next step. IMO, this is a very natural way of MA learning.


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## Danny T (Jun 4, 2020)

Do you not have Biu Sao in your SLT?


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## Oily Dragon (Jun 7, 2020)

geezer said:


> If applied exactly as it's done in training, it is very committed and not as mobile as other options. It makes much more sense when holding a long pole.



If it's done exactly as in training, it will never work in combat, because they are not the same thing, obviously. 

It's also important to note the cultural significances of the vertical fist in the "arrow" formation in the stock image.  There are practical, historical, and elemental considerations to consider.

I get your point about long poles, and concur.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Jun 7, 2020)

Oily Dragon said:


> the cultural significances of the vertical fist ...


The purpose of the horizontal fist are:

1. Use arm rotation to generate more power (like bullet comes out of a gun).
2. When you rotate your arm, you can use your arm to bounce away your opponent's punching arm. Your rotation punch will serve for both defense and offense.


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## Oily Dragon (Jun 7, 2020)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> The purpose of the horizontal fist are:
> 
> 1. Use arm rotation to generate more power (like bullet comes out of a gun).
> 2. When you rotate your arm, you can use your arm to bounce away your opponent's punching arm. Your rotation punch will serve for both defense and offense.



There's a lot more to it than that.  *日.
*
We should move more slowly, before the Fire element comes into play.  Otherwise, things could get dicey fast.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Jun 7, 2020)

Oily Dragon said:


> There's a lot more to it than that.  *日.
> *
> We should move more slowly, before the Fire element comes into play.  Otherwise, things could get dicey fast.


Agree that sun (vertical) punch is safer. Your elbow will have less chance to be cracked. It also faster if you throw chain punches.


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## Oily Dragon (Jun 7, 2020)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> Agree that sun (vertical) punch is safer. Your elbow will have less chance to be cracked. It also faster if you throw chain punches.



They don't call it the "sun character" fist for nothing.


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## geezer (Jun 7, 2020)

Oily Dragon said:


> They don't call it the "sun character" fist for nothing.



Honestly, in our lineage we _keep it simple_ and call things by simple names, whether using English or Cantonese terms. No mysticism or flowery descriptions. the "sun character thrusting punch" or  Yat Gee Chung Kuen is called that simply because the vertical fist resembles the Chinese character for "sun" (*日).  
*
The "arrow punch" name is equally simple and descriptive,  especially as we do it: Using vertical fists with one arm outstretched laterally while the other is drawn back to the center of the chest. As the name implies, it resembles an archer drawing a bow.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Jun 7, 2020)

geezer said:


> the vertical fist resembles the Chinese character for "sun" (*日). *


In the long fist system basic form Tantui, all the punches are vertical fist.


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## Oily Dragon (Jun 7, 2020)

geezer said:


> Honestly, in our lineage we _keep it simple_ and call things by simple names, whether using English or Cantonese terms. No mysticism or flowery descriptions. the "sun character thrusting punch" or  Yat Gee Chung Kuen is called that simply because the vertical fist resembles the Chinese character for "sun" (*日).
> *
> The "arrow punch" name is equally simple and descriptive,  especially as we do it: Using vertical fists with one arm outstretched laterally while the other is drawn back to the center of the chest. As the name implies, it resembles an archer drawing a bow.



The nuances of Chinese kung fu references.

There are several different names in different styles for that same punch, and some of the different plays on name make minor differences.  Rising, falling energy that sort of thing.  There are even "through the sleeve" versions.

Jin Choi (Arrow Punch) is the canonical Shaolin name.  Your lineage's Yat Ji Cheung Kuen would be a five family Yat Ji Man Jin (Sun-shaped Strong Arrow), with minor variations.

The particular stock photo is also Faw Jin Choi (Fire Arrow Punch) because of element aspect of how it is shown (rising).  So yet another way of saying it all could be Yat Ji Cheung Man Faw Jin Kuen (Sun-shaped Thrusting Strong Fire Arrow Punch).  Or Yat Ji Cheung Man Faw Jin Choi (choi is Hakka for pounding with the fist). 

But all of this is just kung fu slang, nobody outside the arts would know what the hell you were talking about.  I'm glad you do.

You can actually trace the root of this punch to Qigong practices found with the Shaolin and other places back to Song era medical exercises, particularly the Eight Brocades (#2 below, 2nd image).


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## geezer (Jun 8, 2020)

Oily Dragon said:


> The nuances of Chinese kung fu references....
> But *all of this is just kung fu slang*, nobody outside the arts would know what the hell you were talking about.



^^^^ Ain't that the truth. As a person who does not speak Chinese (any dialect) I have on occasion tried to discuss a few Wing Chun terms with acquaintances who were native Cantonese speakers. I might as well have been speaking to them from a phrasebook in broken Swahili : _Salamu, vipi ina kuendaje?  _

I thought the problem was that I couldn't properly speak the tones of the words. But even when I showed them the Chinese characters, they were still perplexed. Eventually, a Cantonese American friend (who did train "kung fu") explained to me that these terms we use are_ not _used the same way outside of the martial arts world. 

Recognizing my profound limitations as a linguist, I have followed my old sifu's patient advice to us _gwailo_, and put aside any pretensions of learning Cantonese and instead focused on trying not to make a such mess of the techniques, by whatever name you call them. 

BTW_ Oily_, do you speak Cantonese or Mandarin? Either way, you seem to have a wealth of information.


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## hunschuld (Jun 8, 2020)

Geezer I am with you. I can barely speak English let alone Chinese dialects. 

In my experience one of the biggest problems with Wing Chun is the translation of Chinese to English or one  Cantonese dialect to another or Cantonese to Hokkien etc.

A great deal has been lost due to mistranslation. I have witnessed some very funny and sad situations due to translations


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## Danny T (Jun 8, 2020)

Or as my Sifu (who was from Hong Kong) says "Some call it 'XYZ', call it 'BCD', sometimes they say, 'EFG'. The thing is it's the same just said differently. Don't be so concerned about what it's called but work on being able to do it properly".


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## Oily Dragon (Jun 11, 2020)

geezer said:


> ^^^^ Ain't that the truth. As a person who does not speak Chinese (any dialect) I have on occasion tried to discuss a few Wing Chun terms with acquaintances who were native Cantonese speakers. I might as well have been speaking to them from a phrasebook in broken Swahili : _Salamu, vipi ina kuendaje?  _
> 
> I thought the problem was that I couldn't properly speak the tones of the words. But even when I showed them the Chinese characters, they were still perplexed. Eventually, a Cantonese American friend (who did train "kung fu") explained to me that these terms we use are_ not _used the same way outside of the martial arts world.
> 
> ...



I can speak a smidge of Cantonese, maybe enough to order a dish or count to a hundred or explain a concept. I've gotten pretty good at translating texts.  

There are literal layers to sift through before we even get to all the various hidden meanings, and I'll point that out in the Ip Man thread with bong sao.


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## FinalStreet (Aug 3, 2020)

Hidden meanings = Authenthic Lineage , Simple.
So if its just pak = block (in any arm) , it's not authentic? its short? its half? how?


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## wckf92 (Aug 3, 2020)

FinalStreet said:


> Hidden meanings = Authenthic Lineage , Simple.
> So if its just pak = block (in any arm) , it's not authentic? its short? its half? how?



Hello @FinalStreet ...I see you are new to the forum. Welcome. I also noticed you are replying to a lot of old threads. It would be very helpful for the sake of conversation if you learn to use the "reply" and / or the "quote" features of this forum... Thanks!


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## FinalStreet (Aug 3, 2020)

wckf92 said:


> Hello @FinalStreet ...I see you are new to the forum. Welcome. I also noticed you are replying to a lot of old threads. It would be very helpful for the sake of conversation if you learn to use the "reply" and / or the "quote" features of this forum... Thanks!



Thank you, I will now.  sorry


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## wckf92 (Aug 3, 2020)

FinalStreet said:


> Thank you, I will now.  sorry



No worries! Thank you! (it helps to know who you are "talking" to or quoting when you reply).   Enjoy the forum!


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## Oily Dragon (Aug 9, 2020)

FinalStreet said:


> Hidden meanings = Authenthic Lineage , Simple.
> So if its just pak = block (in any arm) , it's not authentic? its short? its half? how?



Yes, the language of authentic kung fu lineages is rife with hidden meanings.  It's how the documentation works.

I watched Karate Kid Part II the other night, with Miyagi on the wooden post on the beach, practicing a southern Chinese technique with ease that most people would hurt themselves attempting.

That's really him there, performing Fukien White Crane, in a movie, and it made me a believer in authentic lineages, because he was never a formal student of karate, but somebody showed him a thing or two.


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