# St. Mary's Letter



## Fiendlover (May 15, 2008)

this is something that i found a long time ago and i just recently dug it up.  i don't know if this is real or not but i thought it might be of interest here.

"This is a newsletter that St. Mary's church in Colorado Springs sent out this week:

If Your Child is a Gothic, Reform Through the Lord!

Listed below are some warning signs to indicate if your child may have gone astray from the Lord. Gothic (or goth) is a very obscure and often dangerous culture that young teenagers are prone to participating in.
The gothic culture leads young, susceptible minds into an imagined world of evil, darkness, and violence. Please seek immediate attention through counselling, prayer, and parental guidance to rid your child of Satan's temptations if five or more of the following are applicable to your child:

-Frequently wears black clothing.
-Wears band and/or rock t-shirts.
-Wears excessive black eye makeup, lipstick or nailpolish.
-Wears any odd, silver jewelry or symbols. Some of these include: reversed crosses, pentagrams, pentacles, ankhs or various other Satanic worshipping symbols.
-Shows an interest in piercings or tattoos.
-Listens to gothic or any other anti-social genres of music. (Marilyn Manson claims to be the anti-Christ, and publicly speaks against the Lord. Please discard any such albums IMMEDIATELY.)
-Associates with other people that dress, act or speak eccentrically.
-Shows a declining interest in wholesome activities, such as: the Bible, prayer, church or sports.
-Shows an increasing interest in death, vampires, magic, the occult, witchcraft or anything else that involves Satan.
-Takes drugs.
-Drinks alcohol.
-Is suicidal and/or depressed.
-Cuts, burns or partakes in any other method of self-mutilation. (This is a Satanic ritual that uses pain to detract from the light of God and His love. Please seek immediate attention for this at your local mental health center.)
-Complains of boredom.
-Sleeps too excessively or too little.
-Is excessively awake during the night.
-Dislikes sunlight or any other form of light. (This pertains to vampires promoting the idea that His light is of no use.)
-Demands an unusual amount of privacy.
-Spends large amounts of time alone.
-Requests time alone and quietness. (This is so that your child may speak to evil sprits through meditation.)
-Insists on spending time with friends while unaccompanied by an adult.
-Disregards authority figures; teachers, priests, nuns and elders are but a few examples of this.
-Misbehaves at school.
-Misbehaves at home.
-Eats goth-related foods. Count Dracula cereal is an example of this.
-Drinks blood or expresses an interest in drinking blood. (Vampires believe this is how to attain Satan. This act is very
dangerous and should be stopped immediately.)
-Watches cable television or any other corrupted media sources. (Ask your local church for proper programs that your child may watch.)
-Plays videos games that contains violence or are of a role-playing nature.
-Uses the internet excessively and frequently makes time for the computer.
-Makes Satanic symbols and/or violently shakes head to music.
-Dances to music in a provocative or sexual manner.
-Expresses an interest in sex.
-Masturbates
-Is homosexual and/or bisexual.
-Pursues dangerous cult religions. Such include: Satanism, Scientology, Philosophy, Paganism, Wicca, Hinduism and Buddhism.
-Wears pins, stickers or anything else that contains these various phrases: "I'm so gothic, I'm dead", "woe is me", "I'm a goth".
-Claims to be a goth.

If five or more of these apply to your child, please intervene immediately. The gothic culture is dangerous and Satan thrives within it. If any of these problems persist, enlist your child into your local mental health center.

~St. Mary's Catholic Church"

uh oh... i have like 25 of them i guess i need to find the Lord again...
us teenagers you know.  lol.


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## Topeng (May 16, 2008)

The self mutilation stuff I can understand but come on. 
Since when did Philosophy become a dangerous cult religion? Eating Count Chocula is grounds for counseling? Ouch.


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## Andy Moynihan (May 16, 2008)

I love how anything not in lockstep with the church automatically becomes "Satanic", whether it is Christian or not...........never knew an Egyptian Ankh was a "satanic" symbol.

Newsflash: Satanists are, by definition, *Christians*. They're just rooting for the other team.


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## OnlyAnEgg (May 16, 2008)

Andy Moynihan said:


> I love how anything not in lockstep with the church automatically becomes "Satanic", whether it is Christian or not...........never knew an Egyptian Ankh was a "satanic" symbol.
> 
> Newsflash: Satanists are, by definition, *Christians*. They're just rooting for the other team.


 
Well, the Bible does say 'if'n yer not wit me, yer agin me' and all that.

I'm a little concerned cause I have like 18 qualifications myself and I'm hardly a teenager


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## morph4me (May 16, 2008)

Most of the things on that list sound like every teenager I've ever known or heard of. Guess the younger generation is all going to hell -vampfeed-


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## Sukerkin (May 16, 2008)

I was going to say much the same, *Morph* ... tho' they are bang-on with the Marilyn Manson prohibition. 

My missus likes his caterwauling, I'm sad to say {well, she *is* a Goth (English version) after all :lol:} but has learned that if said noise enters my ears then source of said noise is leaving the area.  Nothing gets my goat (ooh, Satanic maybe ?) more than talentless shock-monkeys pretending to be musicians.

Now where did I put my katana?


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## terryl965 (May 16, 2008)

morph4me said:


> Most of the things on that list sound like every teenager I've ever known or heard of. Guess the younger generation is all going to hell -vampfeed-


 
Well by that list my oldest is in real danger, It is time for Zachary to be sent to the dungeon until he see his ways.


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## Ahriman (May 16, 2008)

"She's got her eyes open wide
she's got the dirt and spit of the world
her mouth on the metal 
the lips of a scared little girl

I've got an angel in the lobby
he's waiting to put me in line
I won't ask forgiveness
my faith has gone dry

She's got her Christian prescriptures
and death has crawled in her ear
like elevator music of songs
that she shouldn't hear

and it spins around 1...2...3
and we all lay down 4...5...6
some do it fast 
some do it better in smaller amounts"
MM: Count to six and die
I don't really see shock monkeyness here... to be honest, while some of MM's music *is* hard to digest, they play much more on society criticism and irony. And they have more in common with music than some, ummmm, hmmmm, other bands who propagate rape, theft, drugs and the like without any kind of irony/self irony with using exlusively electronics. Of course I have bands I like much more than MM, but there are much more that I like much less.
...
About the list, most are true - but then, I follow qliphotist philosophy, so maybe I should be proud about it. (just joking) My girlfriend is a wicca... my best friend follows something that could be best described as shamanism, my best friend-girl is qliphotist again... We all go to hell - and get all the free drink we want in the same company we were while on Earth.


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## CoryKS (May 16, 2008)

Also watch your child for signs of having eaten Lucky Charms, for that is a sure sign that he/she is a Wiccan.  The jury is still out on Quisp.


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## OnlyAnEgg (May 16, 2008)

CoryKS said:


> The jury is still out on Quisp.


 
See this thread.


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## CuongNhuka (May 16, 2008)

Yah, organised religion is corrupt. Who ever came up with this needs meet the devil. I'm not saying they need to be sent to the devil, but they need to meet him.


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## Kreth (May 16, 2008)

Fiendlover said:


> -Frequently wears black clothing.


Um... like a priest? :idunno:


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## Empty Hands (May 16, 2008)

Almost certainly a parody.  "Watches cable television"?  "Claims to be a goth"?  Come on.


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## exile (May 16, 2008)

Kreth said:


> Um... like a priest? :idunno:



:rofl:


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## Jade Tigress (May 17, 2008)

OnlyAnEgg said:


> Well, the Bible does say 'if'n yer not wit me, yer agin me' and all that.
> 
> I'm a little concerned cause I have like 18 qualifications myself and I'm hardly a teenager




Yeah, me too. And not only am I not a teenager, but I am a bona fide Christian. Go figure.


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## elder999 (May 17, 2008)

Jade Tigress said:


> Yeah, me too. And not only am I not a teenager, but I am a bona fide Christian. Go figure.


 
Something like 20 myself-not _much_ of a Christian anymore , but nearly 50 years old.......


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## Ahriman (May 17, 2008)

I missed the "learns how to hurt&maim&kill others and considers this an art" point from the list... would it be included, quite much of MTers would have one more sign of being close to damnation. :fanboy:
Mind you, I don't have too many problems with any of the churches. It's always the individual who acts as an idiot. Now it that individual gets to leading position and can convince others that he/she is right... that may cause problems, but then again, the convinced individuals are acting as idiots for believing the leader without questioning.
This WAS NOT targeted at any of the churches or sects or cults _(especially not at the *CULT* of Buddhists)_ or their leaders. Just a common observation.
...
Edited to add: I just noticed the self mutilation part. Satan's way to detract from God's light... vamachara believers must have loved that.


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## Fiendlover (May 21, 2008)

Kreth said:


> Um... like a priest? :idunno:


Exactly.  lol.  I guess you can't have too much privacy when going to the restroom either.  :flushed:


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## stone_dragone (May 21, 2008)

Lets see where I score...

-Frequently wears black clothing.
-Shows an interest in piercings or tattoos.
-Listens to gothic or any other anti-social genres of music. (Does Angry White Man music count?)
-Associates with other people that dress, act or speak eccentrically.
-Drinks alcohol.
-Spends large amounts of time alone.
-Requests time alone and quietness. (This is so that your child may speak to evil sprits through meditation. EDIT: ********)
-Insists on spending time with friends while unaccompanied by an adult. EDIT: Sounds like a teenager to me...
-Watches cable television or any other corrupted media sources. EDIT: CSI on Spike is the DEVIL!
-Plays videos games that contains violence or are of a role-playing nature.
-Uses the internet excessively and frequently makes time for the computer. EDIT: Welcome to the 21st Century
-Expresses an interest in sex. EDIT: Sounds like a human to me...

I guess I am goth, too.  Funny.  I never thought of myself as goth.  Perhaps I'm a Visagoth.


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## shesulsa (May 21, 2008)

Geez, there's 23 things on that list that *still* apply to me. :uhyeah:  Save my soul, Kreth. :EG:

I'd like to know who on this board's gonna own up to this one:



> Masturbates



:lol2:


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## morph4me (May 21, 2008)

That's one of two things I've never done the other one is lie


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## JBrainard (May 21, 2008)

-Frequently wears black clothing. Check
-Wears band and/or rock t-shirts. Check
-Wears any odd, silver jewelry or symbols. Some of these include: *reversed crosses*, *pentagrams*, pentacles, ankhs or various other Satanic worshipping symbols. Check
-Shows an interest in piercings or tattoos. Check
-Listens to gothic or any other anti-social genres of music. (Marilyn Manson claims to be the anti-Christ, and publicly speaks against the Lord. Please discard any such albums IMMEDIATELY.) Check
-Associates with other people that dress, act or speak eccentrically. Check
-Shows a declining interest in wholesome activities, such as: the Bible, prayer, church or sports. Check
-Shows an increasing interest in death, vampires, magic, the occult, witchcraft or anything else that involves Satan. Check
-Drinks alcohol. Check
-Sleeps too excessively or too little. Check
-Watches cable television or any other corrupted media sources. (Ask your local church for proper programs that your child may watch.) Check
-Plays videos games that contains violence or are of a role-playing nature. Check
-Uses the internet excessively and frequently makes time for the computer. Check
-Makes Satanic symbols and/or violently shakes head to music. Check
-Expresses an interest in sex. Check
-Masturbates. Check

Guess I'm screwed


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## Andy Moynihan (May 21, 2008)

*angry sigh*

Once again:



> -
> -Shows an increasing interest in death, vampires, magic, the occult, witchcraft or anything else that involves Satan.


 
If by "Witchcraft" they refer to Wicca, Wiccans do not worship "Satan", they do not even *believe* in "Satan", the entire concept of "Satan" as Christians know it exists solely within the Christian mythology.

I guess anything they happen not to like must be "Satan". 


This phenomenon of "Christians" differentiating themselves from "Satanists" has always puzzled the hell (ha ha) out of me because "Satanists" , by very definition, must be Christian.


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## Steel Tiger (May 21, 2008)

The entire 'letter' can be summed by saying we are born out of original sin.  Therefore all children are evil and formerly had to have it beaten out of them.  This church is much better than that, they just want teens institutionalised.

The saddest thing about a document like this is that the writer very likely did many of the non-Gothic specific things on the list when they were a teen.  And if they didn't you have to ask why anyone let them out of the cupboard to bother the rest of the world.


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## Ahriman (May 21, 2008)

Andy: while I enjoy discussing religions, I don't think the place is correct for that... My views tend to bring some... unease sometimes. :angel:
.
..
...
Aww, I can't help it. I swear I'll go into only the factual part, no personal opinions and such.
The most common meaning of Satan along with a few dozen others is "the accuser, the hostile one", so yes, anything which is against _(or perceived as a hostile thing by)_ the Church is - Satan, or at least a part of him. Now it's another thing that Satanists are a part of the Judeo-Christian religious system, so they are not so surely Christian by default. _(worshipping Kali is a part of the Hinduistic religious system just like worshipping say, Krishna, but I don't think that a worshipper of Kali is a Krishna-believer... uhh, it wasn't as clear as I wanted it to be.)_


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## Andy Moynihan (May 21, 2008)

Ahriman said:


> Andy: while I enjoy discussing religions, I don't think the place is correct for that... My views tend to bring some... unease sometimes. :angel:


 
Not a problem, we can disagree and even people who disagree can do so civilly.



> Aww, I can't help it. I swear I'll go into only the factual part, no personal opinions and such.


 
Not a problem.



> The most common meaning of Satan along with a few dozen others is "the accuser, the hostile one", so yes, anything which is against _(or perceived as a hostile thing by)_ the Church is - Satan, or at least a part of him.


 
That much I understand. It just really grinds my gears to hear the authors of this letter( for surely no single mind could have concieved such a very magnitude of stupidity) talk about other religions as if they knew anything about them, and most certainly when they attribute "Satanic" belief where none exists.



> Now it's another thing that Satanists are a part of the Judeo-Christian religious system, so they are not so surely Christian by default.


 
So the precedent is there for them to exist both within Christianity and Judaism, okay. But the point I was making was that anyone calling anyone else *outside* those traditions "Satanic" is wrong, and anyone who, for whatever reason, refers to him/herself as "Satanic", must then necessarily subscribe to the traditions from which the concept of "Satan" sprung, since those traditions are the only place where that specific concept exists.



> _(worshipping Kali is a part of the Hinduistic religious system just like worshipping say, Krishna, but I don't think that a worshipper of Kali is a Krishna-believer... uhh, it wasn't as clear as I wanted it to be.)_


 
If you're trying to say something along the lines of "Satan is part of the Judeo-Christian mythos, but not all Jews or Christians are Satanists", then yes, we agree.


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## Ahriman (May 21, 2008)

> But the point I was making was that anyone calling anyone else *outside* those traditions "Satanic" is wrong...



I understood what you said, but I just simply like elaborating religion-focused questions, and saying that they are by default Christians is not precise enough.  If I add the last part of your post _(which is far clearer than mine version was)_, it becomes totally precise.  

Just as an interesting addition, the concept of Satan started from Persian dualism _(Ahriman vs Mithras, both sons of Ahura-Mazda - now compare this with the gnostic idea of creation  )_, got adopted by the Hebrew tribes, survived into Christianity and still present at Islam.


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