# Want to learn self defense? Advice or tips?



## ukam61500 (Mar 19, 2018)

Hi, 

So I'm new on this website and I thought it would be a good idea to ask for self defense advice. 

I did taekwondo for six years and wing chun for 10 months. And fitness kickboxing for two months. However, I still am not confident these styles will help me as I'm sure you know that they are quite limited. Plus I don't have enough sparring experience. And I am also aware there are more effective styles of martial arts like muay Thai or bjj. 

My problem is that I decided to completely abandon all open hand striking art styles and decided to research self defense online as well as looking for any art out there that are not based on open hand striking. The reason is brain damage which is something I would like to avoid.

I came to the conclusion that I want to learn a weapon martial art, Escrima, and mabye do some grappling like Jiu Jitsu at some point. 

As strange as the combination sound, Escrima from what I noticed uses a lot of padding/armor in their sparring. And after asking people who does the art, they claim it to be safe with only few welts and minor injuries. So brain damage is completely out of the question. Bjj, according to a classmate, also claims it to be safe.  

Now, here's the thing. I recently watched a video about self defense and according to a  guy (who happens to be a NAVY seal) an open carry concealed gun is needed for true self sefense. As someone like me who is still a minor, this is the reason why I want to do escrima. Plus I think it looks fun. 

I know there's a lot more to self defense than just picking a martial art. I'm aware that there are things like situational awareness and verbal de-escalation. But I want to know is if there's anything more than that?

So, is this practical for general self defense? I know that even these two styles are quite limited but that's why I want to learn the mental side of self defense to compensate that.

Thanks for reading. Any help is much appreciated.


----------



## drop bear (Mar 19, 2018)

Look up dog brothers.


----------



## pdg (Mar 19, 2018)

Where to start...

Fitness kickboxing isn't a martial art, it's a cardio exercise, so apart from helping run away (which actually can be an excellent form of self defence) that's out.

TKD and WC are only limited by the practitioner (or the school if you were training sport). As your profile says you're 17, it looks like those 6 years were done as a kid. It would've been irresponsible of the school to take you in depth really.

There's recently been a whole argument about concealed carry for SD purposes and how valid the "it's the only way" statement is... Consensus is - it's not valid.

Planning on carrying eskrima sticks with you all the time? If not, then it's not really a sensible thing to concentrate on for self defence.


----------



## pdg (Mar 19, 2018)

ukam61500 said:


> open carry concealed gun



There's no such thing...


----------



## ukam61500 (Mar 19, 2018)

drop bear said:


> Look up dog brothers.


Already have. The masks doesn't protect you from brain damage.


----------



## ukam61500 (Mar 19, 2018)

pdg said:


> Where to start...
> 
> Fitness kickboxing isn't a martial art, it's a cardio exercise, so apart from helping run away (which actually can be an excellent form of self defence) that's out.
> 
> ...



Escrima isn't focused on sticks isn't it? I only researched it and I thought that the system is supposed to help you be adaptable to any tool/weapon? I already looked up small and legal self defense weapons which i think compliments well with the system.


----------



## pdg (Mar 19, 2018)

ukam61500 said:


> Escrima isn't focused on sticks isn't it? I only researched it and I thought that the system is supposed to help you be adaptable to any tool/weapon? I already looked up small and legal self defense weapons which i think compliments well with the system.



Depends how you interpret the term, I view eskrima as the stick based part, or sub art, of FMA.

Oh, and helmet or not, getting smacked in the head with a stick carries just about the same risk as a fist or elbow.

Weapons aren't always the answer - the law will take a very dim view if you slash/club/stab/shoot someone who tries to punch you...


Back to your first post if I may - what makes you think Muay Thai is more effective than TKD?

Also, they're not really what I'd consider "open hand" styles...


----------



## ukam61500 (Mar 19, 2018)

pdg said:


> Depends how you interpret the term, I view eskrima as the stick based part, or sub art, of FMA.
> 
> Oh, and helmet or not, getting smacked in the head with a stick carries just about the same risk as a fist or elbow.
> 
> ...



Hm interesting. Now obviously I never took escrima  ,as mentioned before I relied on people who did the art, but I went some digging and noticed that the helmet is much thicker compared to let's say a fencing mask. There seems to be a big thick leather padding on top and around the sides with a metal face mask attached to the front. People told me you only feel the surface of the hit but never actually feel the impact. To back this up, I also saw a video of a kid spar with an adult that was twice his size on youtube which made me conclude that escrima is safe. If we're talking about Dog Brothers that's different. Correct me if I'm wrong, I'm not sure if you do escrima but this is just from an observing/research  point of view.

I understand that weapons isn't the answer but as I said before that's why I want to know the mental part of self defense so I don't have to use it. 

Yeah sorry if me naming them open hand styles was wrong. I don't know what else you can call them. As for effectiveness of taekwondo, from my experience kicking someone to the face takes longer. Then again I don't exercise as much. At the time, I didn't know low kicks were a thing and I when I learned about it in Kickboxing I thought it was so useful and at the same super easy and faster to pull off. I eventually learned online what a "Savate" kick is or "Intercepting kick" and tried it out on another TKD student and it worked. 

Of course I'm not dismissing taekwondo as some of the techniques are useful.


----------



## pdg (Mar 19, 2018)

You can't really compare a fencing mask to an eskrima helmet - for a start there are different masks depending on what weapon is being used...

Then, a very light springy flexible foil (my assumption of what you've seen, it's the famous one) isn't going to have the same impact as a 2.5ft long 1.5" stick, so you don't need the same protection.

Using a video of a kid sparring an adult is flawed from the start - you really think the adult was going all out?

When I spar kids in TKD (yes, it happens and it's good for them) I certainly don't hit hard. I hugely pull punches and kicks so it's more of a tap. I'm not going to full force punch a kid in the face (or an adult in sparring actually).

If you did TKD for 6 years and never learned checking kicks, grabs, punches, sweeps, takedowns, locks, restraints - well, you barely scratched the surface.


----------



## ukam61500 (Mar 19, 2018)

pdg said:


> You can't really compare a fencing mask to an eskrima helmet - for a start there are different masks depending on what weapon is being used...
> 
> Then, a very light springy flexible foil (my assumption of what you've seen, it's the famous one) isn't going to have the same impact as a 2.5ft long 1.5" stick, so you don't need the same protection.
> 
> ...



The type of TKD I learned was in ATA, not sure if that matters. I have never learned to check kicks but I did have a friend who learned it from the same organization but in a different school/teacher. I somewhat remembered doing sweeps and all that jazz but the thing is that they are pointless and we never actually use them.

That's another thing with TKD schools. They teach you some sort of grappling/disarm or whatever technique and you drill for the rest of the day but it gets dismissed the next day without ever returning to it making it useless. A YouTuber named "Androsensei" made a claim about this on a blog he made and he was right. 

As for the video, I would assume so. Not necessarily all out but enough for me to notice and hear the impact of the hits. I would show you the video if I could but unfortunately it's one of those low viewed videos so finding it again would be hard.


----------



## pdg (Mar 19, 2018)

ukam61500 said:


> I somewhat remembered doing sweeps and all that jazz but the thing is that they are pointless and we never actually use them



If you think they're pointless you weren't taught them correctly...

Being shown something once and then not doing it again is bad teaching, not a bad technique.

Saying



ukam61500 said:


> That's another thing with TKD schools



Is a bit of an unfounded generalisation - you've been to all of them?

I assume you mean Ando Mierzwa (rather than Andro) - istr him saying something like that, but it wasn't directed at any certain techniques or styles. If it was, I'd appreciate a link.


----------



## pdg (Mar 19, 2018)

ukam61500 said:


> As for the video, I would assume so. Not necessarily all out but enough for me to notice and hear the impact of the hits



Yeah, and you'd "notice" and "hear" when I spar with kids, especially on video with the way microphones work... Add to that protective equipment tends to amplify contact noise.


----------



## ukam61500 (Mar 19, 2018)

pdg said:


> If you think they're pointless you weren't taught them correctly...
> 
> Being shown something once and then not doing it again is bad teaching, not a bad technique.
> 
> ...



I technically have been to two. Except the second one was from WTF organization. Only been there for two months. Same teaching like the ATA teacher I had. 

Also here's the link.
Why I Quit Tae Kwon Do - Sensei Ando Mierzwa

I believe it's somewhere in the 'gripes #2' or whatever.


----------



## ukam61500 (Mar 19, 2018)

pdg said:


> Yeah, and you'd "notice" and "hear" when I spar with kids, especially on video with the way microphones work... Add to that protective equipment tends to amplify contact noise.



I feel like this discussion is taking longer than it should be but this is where I got the info about safety of escrima. 

https://www.quora.com/How-safe-is-Arnis?share=0245c660&srid=00JK

I want to get into Escrima/Kali/Arnis but I have a few questions. • r/Eskrima

Both of these are my posts.


----------



## pdg (Mar 19, 2018)

ukam61500 said:


> I technically have been to two. Except the second one was from WTF organization. Only been there for two months. Same teaching like the ATA teacher I had.
> 
> Also here's the link.
> Why I Quit Tae Kwon Do - Sensei Ando Mierzwa
> ...



Two. With the same teaching style. Hardly representative of an art...

Yeah, that's almost a transcript of one of his videos. Read it again, carefully.

For reference though - I don't do long stretching exercises, I don't spend hours trying to 'keep flexible'.

I'm 40.

If you're under 6'6", I could kick your head without jumping...

If your instructor can't convey knowledge without seeming like a camel on methamphetamines jumping from topic to topic then that's not good.

If you can't take things you've learned, take them home, practice them, learn application - that's your failing.



ukam61500 said:


> I feel like this discussion is taking longer than it should be



Well, if you were expecting a bunch of short replies like "wow, you're right", you got the short straw having me reply.

There isn't an instant answer...

There isn't one art that's fundamentally "more effective" than another, every art practiced properly carries risk. Deal with it.

If you don't fit TKD, fine, I'm not telling you to (ditto any art, if you don't fit it'll never work for you). Stating it lacks effectiveness based on a poor teacher or you not being able to apply it is immature and wrong though. I'd have the same opinion of anything - MT, WC, KM, FMA, whatever.



DB mentioned Dog Brothers, you wrote it off due to the equipment not protecting you enough.

If that's such a concern I recommend knitting, or crochet.

In a SD (or any fight) situation (to steal a quote) it's not about how hard you can hit, it's whether you can get hit and keep going.

Someone jumps you and punches you in the face - if that's never happened you won't be able to deal with it.


----------



## Dirty Dog (Mar 19, 2018)

ukam61500 said:


> I technically have been to two. Except the second one was from WTF organization. Only been there for two months. Same teaching like the ATA teacher I had.



You trained in TKD for six years and don't know that there is no such thing as WTF TKD? That's sad. Very sad.


----------



## ukam61500 (Mar 19, 2018)

1. I know what you mean what represents an art. I'm not saying that an art isn't effective due to teachers. I'm basing it only on experience. I stated before that the techniques taught to me were useless mostly because they don't properly drill it. Most of the time they drill it for only a day. 

2. How does one apply a disarm technique. Or a grapple technique especially when everyone in my family are too busy? The only things I do is I hit the bags and (used to) hit the wooden dummy on my own time whenever I have the chance. From my understanding, taking techniques from school requires one other person. Something that no one in my family has the time for. 

3. I know what you mean by where one art isn't more effective than another. But you don't honestly believe that a guy that only knows kicking can take down another guy that knows how to punch, kick, elbow, grapple, and clinch? I know some taekwondo organizations like ITF incorporates punching if that's what you're talking about. 

4. Every martial art has risk. Sure. That is if we're talking about Brain damage here. Kendo,fencing,HEMA,BJJ, (mabye) Judo, (mabye) aikido would beg the differ. 

5. If someone punched me in the face then I did something wrong. That's why I mentioned to you before that I want to learn the mental side of self defense. Besides getting attacked from behind is something you're not MEANT to be prepared for anyways. It's not about being tough or "dealing" with it. 
I've been punched before IN SPARRING but does that mean I will get used to getting hit from behind IN PUBLIC? No, that's not how it works.


----------



## ukam61500 (Mar 19, 2018)

Dirty Dog said:


> You trained in TKD for six years and don't know that there is no such thing as WTF TKD? That's sad. Very sad.


What? What are you talking about? 

You mean world taekwondo federation right? Of course I know what that is? I only learned about it like last year? 

In what comment did I say I did NOT know wtf?


----------



## Dirty Dog (Mar 19, 2018)

ukam61500 said:


> What? What are you talking about?



I'm talking about your statement that you were training at a WTF school. There's no such thing. WT (the WTF changed it's name quite a while back) is a sports governing body. Not a martial arts style. WT has no curriculum, no schools, awards no rank... 



> You mean world taekwondo federation right? Of course I know what that is? I only learned about it like last year?



Apparently you do not, actually.


----------



## ukam61500 (Mar 19, 2018)

Dirty Dog said:


> I'm talking about your statement that you were training at a WTF school. There's no such thing. WT (the WTF changed it's name quite a while back) is a sports governing body. Not a martial arts style. WT has no curriculum, no schools, awards no rank...
> 
> 
> 
> Apparently you do not, actually.



I never stated it as a style? I stated I was in a school that was part of WTF?

You are seriously wasting my time with these misinterpretations.

Edit: Omg was it because I said "WTF school" seriously..... dude. I could have said the same with ATA school... jesus.

Edit 1: alright i looked up WTF and they did in fact change it until June 2017. I only joined a WT school two months after that. The school at the time still had the WTF emblem on their website. There happy smartass?


----------



## pdg (Mar 19, 2018)

ukam61500 said:


> 1. I know what you mean what represents an art. I'm not saying that an art isn't effective due to teachers. I'm basing it only on experience. I stated before that the techniques taught to me were useless mostly because they don't properly drill it. Most of the time they drill it for only a day.
> 
> 2. How does one apply a disarm technique. Or a grapple technique especially when everyone in my family are too busy? The only things I do is I hit the bags and (used to) hit the wooden dummy on my own time whenever I have the chance. From my understanding, taking techniques from school requires one other person. Something that no one in my family has the time for.
> 
> ...



1. You have very little experience to draw on, based on everything you've said.

2. Find a training partner / go through the moves / research and think about application. Having a partner is best, but not the only way of doing homework.

3. If someone only knows kicking, they don't _know_ TKD. At all really. They might know the Olympic style game, but that's it.

4. You keep on about brain damage like everyone who participates is guaranteed to end up a vegetable. It's a risk with anything - grappling arts you could misjudge and hit your head, running for the bus you could slip and hit your head...

5. If you think any art at all can guarantee you'll not get hit unless you do something wrong, then you've either been drastically misled or you've watched too many films.

I never said from behind. If someone squares up to you face to face and you accept the fight, you're probably going to get hit. These "end a fight in 3 seconds with one technique" ads are absolute balls. All of them. If that's what you want, you need virtual reality.

Think how hard a boxer can punch, they almost never win with one hit, especially without taking a few themselves.


----------



## pdg (Mar 19, 2018)

ukam61500 said:


> I never stated it as a style? I stated I was in a school that was part of WTF?
> 
> You are seriously wasting my time with these misinterpretations.
> 
> Edit: Omg was it because I said "WTF school" seriously..... dude. I could have said the same with ATA school... jesus.



An ATA school is a thing.

There's no such thing as a WTF school, never was.


----------



## ukam61500 (Mar 19, 2018)

pdg said:


> An ATA school is a thing.
> 
> There's no such thing as a WTF school, never was.



Never was until last year... seriously bunch of smartass on this forum with little to no help at all.


----------



## pdg (Mar 19, 2018)

ukam61500 said:


> Never was until last year... seriously bunch of smartass on this forum with little to no help at all.



No, there weren't any last year either, still none today.


----------



## pdg (Mar 19, 2018)

Oh, and...

Seriously, be honest about this.

What help were you expecting?

Did you want to be reassured that you were making the right choice, that your experience of the arts you've lightly dabbled in is universal?

Did you want someone to recommend something where you'll learn to win any fight without getting touched?



Seeing as I've been bunched in the smartass group, try this on for size:

Don't worry about brain damage, by definition you need something to damage first before it can be a problem.


----------



## ukam61500 (Mar 19, 2018)

Omg


pdg said:


> 1. You have very little experience to draw on, based on everything you've said.
> 
> 2. Find a training partner / go through the moves / research and think about application. Having a partner is best, but not the only way of doing homework.
> 
> ...




Omg. Again your e not listening. I want to learn SELF DEFENSE not be in a fight. God. 

Think about application? The love? Simply thinking is not enough you must do. 

Then what is taekwondo now? Because all I'm seeing is a bunch of kickers whenever I go to a tkd tournament. 

The chances of anything ever happening is random. Judo and aikido take those away and you have jiu jitsu and wrestling. I'm not seeing any slams or brain damage in my local highschool wrestling tournaments here. 

I never said anything about art. All I'm talking about is self defense BOTH MENTALLY AND PHYSICALLY. Read my original post for crying out loud.


----------



## ukam61500 (Mar 19, 2018)

pdg said:


> No, there weren't any last year either, still none today.


Research it. Look at the wiki or do I have to link it for you?


----------



## Dirty Dog (Mar 19, 2018)

ukam61500 said:


> I never stated it as a style? I stated I was in a school that was part of WTF?



That's the point. There ARE no schools affiliated with WT. The only groups affiliated with WT are national governing bodies for that nations Olympic team. Because it's not a style. It's a sports governing body. That's all.


----------



## pdg (Mar 19, 2018)

ukam61500 said:


> Then what is taekwondo now? Because all I'm seeing is a bunch of kickers whenever I go to a tkd tournament.



They're playing a game, the points system favours kicking by awarding higher scores for foot use. I'd need to score on 4 punches to get the same points as a single (certain) kick.



ukam61500 said:


> Omg. Again your e not listening. I want to learn SELF DEFENSE not be in a fight. God.



If a self defence situation reaches the physical level, it's a fight.

If you (try to) strike first, you're likely to be interpreted as the aggressor...



ukam61500 said:


> I'm not seeing any slams or brain damage in my local highschool wrestling tournaments here



And I'm not seeing any brain damage from my TKD or kickboxing classes either...


----------



## pdg (Mar 19, 2018)

ukam61500 said:


> Research it. Look at the wiki or do I have to link it for you?



Yes, link it.

Then one of us can show you where you're wrong.


----------



## ukam61500 (Mar 19, 2018)

Dirty Dog said:


> That's the point. There ARE no schools affiliated with WT. The only groups affiliated with WT are national governing bodies for that nations Olympic team. Because it's not a style. It's a sports governing body. That's all.



This is the school I went. At the very bottom there are AFFILIATIONS.

THE STUDIO Martial Arts & Fitness: Roseville taekwondo classes


----------



## ukam61500 (Mar 19, 2018)

pdg said:


> Yes, link it.
> 
> Then one of us can show you where you're wrong.



https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...ndo/40391326&usg=AOvVaw1V_6iCWeDELMC9repsQmca

World Taekwondo - Wikipedia

And if you type in World taekwondo federation name change on Google notice that all the articles are created on June. The same date on the wiki. 

Seriously you guys are not helping at all. 

Either the brain damage really did come up to you guys or just plain stupid. You guys seriously don't know how to read.


----------



## pdg (Mar 19, 2018)

ukam61500 said:


> This is the school I went. At the very bottom there are AFFILIATIONS.
> 
> THE STUDIO Martial Arts & Fitness: Roseville taekwondo classes



Yet oddly, the WT themselves only class national organisations as affiliates, no individual clubs or schools.

In short, that school's webmaster doesn't really get it.


----------



## Dirty Dog (Mar 19, 2018)

ukam61500 said:


> Research it. Look at the wiki or do I have to link it for you?



Wiki? Why not a link to the WTs own site? Like THIS ONE, where I encourage you to read the "About" tab. Notice the complete lack of a curriculum. Or rank awarded. Or schools. 
Now, you're far from the first person to make this mistake. And I doubt you'll be the last either. But calling people names when all they've done is correct your mistake isn't going to get you very far.


----------



## pdg (Mar 19, 2018)

ukam61500 said:


> https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwi5pOOQqPjZAhVmxFQKHVkPAXoQFggwMAI&url=http://www.bbc.com/sport/taekwondo/40391326&usg=AOvVaw1V_6iCWeDELMC9repsQmca
> 
> World Taekwondo - Wikipedia
> 
> ...



Yes, they changed the name.

They didn't change their structure to become a system that schools can teach or affiliate themselves with.


----------



## ukam61500 (Mar 19, 2018)

Dirty Dog said:


> Wiki? Why not a link to the WTs own site? Like THIS ONE, where I encourage you to read the "About" tab. Notice the complete lack of a curriculum. Or rank awarded. Or schools.
> Now, you're far from the first person to make this mistake. And I doubt you'll be the last either. But calling people names when all they've done is correct your mistake isn't going to get you very far.



I don't know how they make their business but I've seen this kind of thing before. So..


----------



## Dirty Dog (Mar 19, 2018)

ukam61500 said:


> This is the school I went. At the very bottom there are AFFILIATIONS.
> 
> THE STUDIO Martial Arts & Fitness: Roseville taekwondo classes



Right. They teach Kukkiwon TKD. That's a style.


----------



## pdg (Mar 19, 2018)

ukam61500 said:


> I don't know how they make their business but I've seen this kind of thing before. So..



So you've seen people get it wrong before so that makes you right?


----------



## ukam61500 (Mar 19, 2018)

Dirty Dog said:


> Right. They teach Kukkiwon TKD. That's a style.



Alright I'm done with this thread. 

Googled kukkikwon and it says they are a governing body. I'm done. You guys are derailing my own thread.


----------



## ukam61500 (Mar 19, 2018)

pdg said:


> So you've seen people get it wrong before so that makes you right?



Clearly you're some deranged taekwondo fanatic that I shouldn't be talking with in the first place.


----------



## pdg (Mar 19, 2018)

ukam61500 said:


> Alright I'm done with this thread.
> 
> Googled kukkikwon and it says they are a governing body. I'm done. You guys are derailing my own thread.



A governing body of the style, who ratify rank and issue curricula.

WT is the governing body of the game - they issue a ruleset, nothing more.


----------



## ukam61500 (Mar 19, 2018)

pdg said:


> A governing body of the style, who ratify rank and issue curricula.
> 
> WT is the governing body of the game - they issue a ruleset, nothing more.


And I was right.


----------



## pdg (Mar 19, 2018)

ukam61500 said:


> And I was right.



But you weren't.

There is no such thing as a WT or WTF school, because it's not a possibility.

There is such a thing as a KKW style school, because they control the art.

Compare to football (probably soccer to you) - you don't get a FIFA club, because they're just an international governing body of that competition. (I know very little about football, but I know that much).


----------



## Grenadier (Mar 19, 2018)

*Admin's Note:*

This thread is now closed.  

Please note, that while levels of heat are permitted, as long as things stay civil.  

Outright flames (including personal attacks) are not permitted, and will result in warning points being issued.  

Consider this your only warning.


----------

