# How do you protect soft spots in a fight?



## amateur (Jan 10, 2019)

Raised arms and lowered chin protect throat and solar plexus. Fighting stance protects what is between legs. But there are some other super soft spots that don't seem that protected to me in a fight:
-Knees
-Feet
What if someone goes for those right away? There is even a way to break one's ankle right away in a fight. Watch the last seconds in the video below.


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## Martial D (Jan 10, 2019)

Is this a serious post?


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## Headhunter (Jan 11, 2019)

Um...how many attackers are going to target your feet? Especially when you have shoes on....knees yeah it's a risk but an untrained attacked more than likely won't be trying to go after the knees.


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## Gerry Seymour (Jan 11, 2019)

amateur said:


> Raised arms and lowered chin protect throat and solar plexus. Fighting stance protects what is between legs. But there are some other super soft spots that don't seem that protected to me in a fight:
> -Knees
> -Feet
> What if someone goes for those right away? There is even a way to break one's ankle right away in a fight. Watch the last seconds in the video below.


Feet aren't really soft points. They're hard for your opponent to damage in any meaningful way in a fight, unless they actually have hold of the foot. Knees are also more robust than you seem to give them credit for - look at all the strikes they take in MMA, the things they deal with in other contact sport, etc. Unless someone is really skilled, I'm not concerned about them going for my feet - while they are focused that low, I have a chance to work higher. (Someone skilled at sweeps would be an issue, but that's not about protecting the feet, but about protecting structure.) Knees are really probably only in danger from hard tackles and powerful kicks. Mobility is the best protection for them.


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## drop bear (Jan 11, 2019)

Lift your foot off the ground.


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## JowGaWolf (Jan 11, 2019)

amateur said:


> Raised arms and lowered chin protect throat and solar plexus. Fighting stance protects what is between legs. But there are some other super soft spots that don't seem that protected to me in a fight:
> -Knees
> -Feet
> What if someone goes for those right away? There is even a way to break one's ankle right away in a fight. Watch the last seconds in the video below.


What he says is true (except the ankle part) but not in the way that it appears.  The chances you'll be in bow stance long enough to protect your groin with your knee is almost zero.  The last part is done to break structure and not bone. He's also not giving a realistic demonstration of that technique.


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## jobo (Jan 11, 2019)

amateur said:


> Raised arms and lowered chin protect throat and solar plexus. Fighting stance protects what is between legs. But there are some other super soft spots that don't seem that protected to me in a fight:
> -Knees
> -Feet
> What if someone goes for those right away? There is even a way to break one's ankle right away in a fight. Watch the last seconds in the video below.


are you talking about a real fight or some ring fight
.there's a lot of nonsense in self defence classes and movies about what will stop a determined attacker, and stamping on feet , kicking in the knee aren't among them, your only going to annoy them


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## Bill Mattocks (Jan 11, 2019)

amateur said:


> Raised arms and lowered chin protect throat and solar plexus. Fighting stance protects what is between legs. But there are some other super soft spots that don't seem that protected to me in a fight:
> -Knees
> -Feet
> What if someone goes for those right away? There is even a way to break one's ankle right away in a fight. Watch the last seconds in the video below.



Knees and feet are not soft tissue, but they can be targeted in a fight.

However, there are some things to consider.

Typically, at least in the West, people who fight in the street do not target either feet or knees.  They tend to head-hunt or try to kick the groin or both.  I do not think I have ever seen someone intentionally try to take out a knee or an ankle in a 'real' fight, and in the highly-simulated world of point sparring, such attacks are typically disallowed.  I'm not saying it could not happen, I'm saying you just don't typically see it.

Feet are generally protected by shoes in a real self-defense type situation.  Ankles may be vulnerable and may in fact be injured, but in my experience, it's usually done by the fighter to themselves, stepping wrong and rolling or twisting the ankle, falling or being knocked down and landing on something, etc.  In other words, collateral damage, not intentional damage.

The knee is a real target, from the correct angle and with the right attack, that's for sure.  But it is seldom targeted in a 'real' type of fight.  I don't know why, but that's how it is.  One thing is that knee damage is very difficult to recover from.  If someone punches you in the face and you get a broken nose or a black eye, you'll heal.  Bust the knee and you have some real issues and won't be back to normal for quite some time and will probably need serious surgical intervention.

What I am trying to say is that the knee is a good and legitimate target in a self-defense situation, but I just haven't seen it used much, either in attack or defense.

It is also a bit harder to train knee attacks, as you can't really do it full power on a resisting opponent.  Hard to build up the skills needed.


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## dvcochran (Jan 11, 2019)

drop bear said:


> Lift your foot off the ground.


Agree. But would be really hard in the stance in the video.


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## jobo (Jan 11, 2019)

Bill Mattocks said:


> Knees and feet are not soft tissue, but they can be targeted in a fight.
> 
> However, there are some things to consider.
> 
> ...


not disagreeing, more expanding,

 I had a chat with my sparing partner about his preferred defence to my kicks of sticking his knee out as a preferred targe that whilst this was as least as painful for me as him, doing so against some one toe kickng with a robust pair of shoes on would end badly. it is in fact only a good defence against  another trained kicker. preferredly as bare foot one

I'm sure it's possible, with a particularly well executed kick on a planeted leg, to do some long term damage, less so to actually stop them there and then, it's a rare sight even in MMA where the kicks are good, for people to fall over screaming with a busted knee,, now get them with a pair of steel toe caps ?


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## Danny T (Jan 11, 2019)

Stances are fleeting. They are but a snapshot in time. Keep moving.


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## marques (Jan 11, 2019)

Never had issues with feet or knees, even training low kicks and barefoot.

Toes hurt easily, but that’s about it. You survive. Even if broken in a fight, probably you only notice long after the fight.

Knees are especially fragile when hit from the side; “Muay Thai checks” have been good enough to deal with it. Also, a bent knee is much stronger than a straight one for a front impact.

So, potentially you can be hurt (and never recover) does not matter what you do (especially for knees), but the probability is tiny.

I would worry about ribs, if I wanted to worry about less common targets. People break ribs quite easily and it is a nightmare to heal and to leave with.


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## Bill Mattocks (Jan 11, 2019)

marques said:


> I would worry about ribs, if I wanted to worry about less common targets. People break ribs quite easily and it is a nightmare to heal and to leave with.



Good point.  Having experienced both, I would even say that a bruised rib hurts as much or more than a broken one.  That will take the fight out of you with a quickness.


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## dvcochran (Jan 11, 2019)

Bill Mattocks said:


> Good point.  Having experienced both, I would even say that a bruised rib hurts as much or more than a broken one.  That will take the fight out of you with a quickness.


Yes, It is not the bone but the soft tissue that connects the ribs that really hurt. Being soft it can move so when injured every breath hurts.


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## dvcochran (Jan 11, 2019)

gpseymour said:


> Feet aren't really soft points. They're hard for your opponent to damage in any meaningful way in a fight, unless they actually have hold of the foot. Knees are also more robust than you seem to give them credit for - look at all the strikes they take in MMA, the things they deal with in other contact sport, etc. Unless someone is really skilled, I'm not concerned about them going for my feet - while they are focused that low, I have a chance to work higher. (Someone skilled at sweeps would be an issue, but that's not about protecting the feet, but about protecting structure.) Knees are really probably only in danger from hard tackles and powerful kicks. Mobility is the best protection for them.





gpseymour said:


> Feet aren't really soft points. They're hard for your opponent to damage in any meaningful way in a fight, unless they actually have hold of the foot.


I do think this is where awareness plays a big role. If I have my work boots or hard sole shoes on I am pretty sure I can at least interrupt an attacker with a heel first foot stomp. Barefoot or in tennis shoes a stomp would be a waste of time.



gpseymour said:


> Knees are also more robust than you seem to give them credit for - look at all the strikes they take in MMA, the things they deal with in other contact sport, etc.


The knee is pliable in the direction it is intended to bend. Again, being aware and taking advantage of angles, direction, and weighting can make the knee a valid target. 
I remember being at a self defense seminar in Chicago that had  several Martial Artist and people from the LE world. One of the MA guys went into great detail about knee attacks. He went off the rails when he kept talking about attacking a bent knee straight on. The room was quite humorous after a bit of his insistence that it was a good target. Finally a LE officer that weighed about 160lbs gave him his bent knee and said go for it. The guy tried about a dozen different attacks before the LE officer finally said his knee was stinging. The point is you have to be aware and "educated" enough to recognize when a target is and isn't valid.


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## Bill Mattocks (Jan 11, 2019)

dvcochran said:


> I do think this is where awareness plays a big role. If I have my work boots or hard sole shoes on I am pretty sure I can at least interrupt an attacker with a heel first foot stomp. Barefoot or in tennis shoes a stomp would be a waste of time.
> 
> 
> The knee is pliable in the direction it is intended to bend. Again, being aware and taking advantage of angles, direction, and weighting can make the knee a valid target.
> I remember being at a self defense seminar in Chicago that had  several Martial Artist and people from the LE world. One of the MA guys went into great detail about knee attacks. He went off the rails when he kept talking about attacking a bent knee straight on. The room was quite humorous after a bit of his insistence that it was a good target. Finally a LE officer that weighed about 160lbs gave him his bent knee and said go for it. The guy tried about a dozen different attacks before the LE officer finally said his knee was stinging. The point is you have to be aware and "educated" enough to recognize when a target is and isn't valid.



With regard to stomps, whilst again I have never really seen them in an actual self-defense situation, we practice stomps a bit differently, such that the 'stomp' part is at the end of the attack; raking the shin all the way down is first, as a free lunch along the way.  Our fumikomi is a cross-over stomp that can be delivered in a variety of ways and to a variety of targets besides just shins/feet.  But nope, never did it and never saw it done in anything resembling an actual fight.  Doubt I'd have the presence of mind to really try it myself.

The knee, I absolutely agree with you.  We attack with the knee; it's very strong in the directions it was intended to bend.  Taken at other angles it can damage tissue, bring someone to the ground, etc.  It's really neglected as an attack and also in defense because it is so seldom considered.  And again, haven't seen it done in an actual altercation.  The few times I've seen knees damaged that was it was purely accidental or a side-effect of something else.


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## Dirty Dog (Jan 11, 2019)

Bill Mattocks said:


> With regard to stomps, whilst again I have never really seen them in an actual self-defense situation, we practice stomps a bit differently, such that the 'stomp' part is at the end of the attack; raking the shin all the way down is first, as a free lunch along the way.  Our fumikomi is a cross-over stomp that can be delivered in a variety of ways and to a variety of targets besides just shins/feet.  But nope, never did it and never saw it done in anything resembling an actual fight.  Doubt I'd have the presence of mind to really try it myself.
> 
> The knee, I absolutely agree with you.  We attack with the knee; it's very strong in the directions it was intended to bend.  Taken at other angles it can damage tissue, bring someone to the ground, etc.  It's really neglected as an attack and also in defense because it is so seldom considered.  And again, haven't seen it done in an actual altercation.  The few times I've seen knees damaged that was it was purely accidental or a side-effect of something else.



I have to agree with this. If we're limiting this to fights in which no weapons were involved, then facial injuries and scalp lacs are by FAR the most common injuries I see. Hand injuries would be next, which doesn't say much for the punching skills of most of these folks. Torso or limb injuries are really quite uncommon.

That doesn't mean that attacks to the limbs are not worthwhile. I think what it likely shows is simply that most fights involve people who are untrained, and they just punch each other in the face a couple times before the fight ends.


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## amateur (Jan 11, 2019)

gpseymour said:


> 1. Feet aren't really soft points. They're hard for your opponent to damage in any meaningful way in a fight, unless they actually have hold of the foot.
> 2. Knees are also more robust than you seem to give them credit for - look at all the strikes they take in MMA, the things they deal with in other contact sport, etc.



1. If you get stomped on your foot, it hurts a whole lot, even if you're wearing shoes. I know from experience. 
2. A push kick in the knee side can damage it permanently. I read it in Martin Dougherty's book: 'How to defend yourself, unarmed combat skills that work'.

Also, to answer some other posts, just because it does not occur to many people to attack you there in a fight does not mean I want to rely on that.


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## Bill Mattocks (Jan 11, 2019)

amateur said:


> 1. If you get stomped on your foot, it hurts a whole lot, even if you're wearing shoes. I know from experience.
> 2. A push kick in the knee side can damage it permanently. I read it in Martin Dougherty's book: 'How to defend yourself, unarmed combat skills that work'.
> 
> Also, to answer some other posts, just because it does not occur to many people to attack you there in a fight does not mean I want to rely on that.



I could get attacked by a guy with a sword, and that would definitely make my day worse.  I have no defense either.  But the chances of that happening are about the same as being hit by lightning while taking a unicycle to pick up my lottery winnings.  I try to practice hardest to defend myself against the most likely threats.

FYI, that also means I have a working fire extinguisher in my kitchen.  I'm far more likely to set my house on fire than I am to be attacked by anyone for any reason using any techniques at all.

It's all about managing risk.  Could someone stomp on my foot or kick my knee from the side in an altercation?  Sure.  Will it happen?  I doubt it.


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## amateur (Jan 11, 2019)

Bill Mattocks said:


> It's all about managing risk.  Could someone stomp on my foot or kick my knee from the side in an altercation?  Sure.  Will it happen?  I doubt it.



The front foot is totally unprotected in a fighting stance. It's so easy to just stomp on it that it surprises me no one thinks of it.


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## drop bear (Jan 11, 2019)

amateur said:


> 1. If you get stomped on your foot, it hurts a whole lot, even if you're wearing shoes. I know from experience.
> 2. A push kick in the knee side can damage it permanently. I read it in Martin Dougherty's book: 'How to defend yourself, unarmed combat skills that work'.
> 
> Also, to answer some other posts, just because it does not occur to many people to attack you there in a fight does not mean I want to rely on that.



A good stance will make that shot painful but manageable. From someone who does kick at knees and kicks at calves.







Nobody is getting that ankle sweep to work on you.


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## Danny T (Jan 11, 2019)

drop bear said:


>


Yeah man...we do a lot of kicks to the calf, ankle, and achilles.


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## jobo (Jan 11, 2019)

amateur said:


> The front foot is totally unprotected in a fighting stance. It's so easy to just stomp on it that it surprises me no one thinks of it.


because it's only going to annoy them, not stop them, and if you daft enough to leave you foot there whilst someone stamps on it, you deserve it


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## JowGaWolf (Jan 11, 2019)

Bill Mattocks said:


> What I am trying to say is that the knee is a good and legitimate target in a self-defense situation, but I just haven't seen it used much, either in attack or defense.


 It actually takes technique and skill to attack the knee and there aren't many people who actually want to learn those techniques or even how to be effective with them.

Gaining the skill to attack the legs takes a long time to learn.  Those who do know how to attack the legs like that are usually people who have a passion for learning techniques in general.  For me personally, that' good news.  That means I have less thing to worry about being attacked with.


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## Buka (Jan 11, 2019)

All my spots are soft. I prefer the Python Parry to protect them.


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## amateur (Jan 11, 2019)

jobo said:


> because it's only going to annoy them, not stop them, and if you daft enough to leave you foot there whilst someone stamps on it, you deserve it



If you stomp with your heel, it's going to be far more than a nuisance. I was stomped like that last June and it still hurts when the weather is wet.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Jan 11, 2019)

amateur said:


> If you stomp with your heel, it's going to be far more than a nuisance. I was stomped like that last June and it still hurts when the weather is wet.


It's a very different thing during a fight when your adrenaline is going. The only way it's going to have a significant impact is if you have very heavy boots, or something on them that will deal extra damage. And even if a normal foot stomp might, it's not consistent enough to rely on it, or spend your time worrying about it.


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## dvcochran (Jan 11, 2019)

kempodisciple said:


> It's a very different thing during a fight when your adrenaline is going. The only way it's going to have a significant impact is if you have very heavy boots, or something on them that will deal extra damage. And even if a normal foot stomp might, it's not consistent enough to rely on it, or spend your time worrying about it.


I'm not saying it will end a confrontation, I am saying it will at the very least be a distraction. More likely a deterrent though.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Jan 11, 2019)

dvcochran said:


> I'm not saying it will end a confrontation, I am saying it will at the very least be a distraction. More likely a deterrent though.


I agree fully with what you said. heavy boots/work boots will have an impact. a normal (barefoot or tennis shoes) foot stomp probably wont.


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## Bill Mattocks (Jan 11, 2019)

amateur said:


> The front foot is totally unprotected in a fighting stance. It's so easy to just stomp on it that it surprises me no one thinks of it.



With all due respect, you haven't been in many real fights.


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## Gerry Seymour (Jan 11, 2019)

Bill Mattocks said:


> Good point.  Having experienced both, I would even say that a bruised rib hurts as much or more than a broken one.  That will take the fight out of you with a quickness.


I can't speak to broken ribs, but I've bruised a few in the past. Yeah, that hurt. Not sure what it would have meant in a fight, though. I've played sports with some injuries that I'd have expected to be fight-stoppers.


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## Gerry Seymour (Jan 11, 2019)

Bill Mattocks said:


> With regard to stomps, whilst again I have never really seen them in an actual self-defense situation, we practice stomps a bit differently, such that the 'stomp' part is at the end of the attack; raking the shin all the way down is first, as a free lunch along the way.  Our fumikomi is a cross-over stomp that can be delivered in a variety of ways and to a variety of targets besides just shins/feet.  But nope, never did it and never saw it done in anything resembling an actual fight.  Doubt I'd have the presence of mind to really try it myself.
> 
> The knee, I absolutely agree with you.  We attack with the knee; it's very strong in the directions it was intended to bend.  Taken at other angles it can damage tissue, bring someone to the ground, etc.  It's really neglected as an attack and also in defense because it is so seldom considered.  And again, haven't seen it done in an actual altercation.  The few times I've seen knees damaged that was it was purely accidental or a side-effect of something else.


My training has included stomps, as well (including as you described). I think the reason it rarely shows up in actual use is that you have to take a foot high off the ground for it. If someone's close enough for a stomp, they're probably making contact, which makes that sacrifice of structure undesirable.


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## JR 137 (Jan 12, 2019)

gpseymour said:


> My training has included stomps, as well (including as you described). I think the reason it rarely shows up in actual use is that you have to take a foot high off the ground for it. If someone's close enough for a stomp, they're probably making contact, which makes that sacrifice of structure undesirable.


I was about to say something along those lines...

If someone’s close enough to stomp on my foot*, they’re certainly close enough to get punched. Most likely close enough to get elbowed, thrown, etc. Stomping someone’s foot is going to happen in the clinch or similar. 

*Stomping someone’s foot with any power or weight behind it. In order for it to have any real potential to do actual damage, their weight has to be over their stomping foot. The only way they might be out of range to get hit is if they’re leaning back pretty far. Leaning backwards and stomping forward isn’t going to have any power behind it. 

Note: I was initially thinking about it in a striking range attack and closing in attack. Looking at it as an attack while in the clinch, I guess it could be useful. More so as a distraction/softening/unbalancing thing than anything else though. Stomping the foot and trapping it there could be effective for a takedown. In wrestling, we’d occasionally step on someone’s front foot and drive forward in a tie-up, tripping them up. Happened to me once. Once.


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## jobo (Jan 12, 2019)

amateur said:


> If you stomp with your heel, it's going to be far more than a nuisance. I was stomped like that last June and it still hurts when the weather is wet.


Errrr, the idea in a fight is to win, there and then, giving them a toe injury that aches 6 months later , is only a bonus if you won the fight.

Some one stamped on my toe whilst playing soccer, really hard, it hurt like hell and my toe nail  fell of and never recocered properly, that only caused me to punch him on the nose, very very hard, only professional soccer player fall to the ground screaming after a toe stamp,


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## pdg (Jan 12, 2019)

amateur said:


> If you stomp with your heel, it's going to be far more than a nuisance. I was stomped like that last June and it still hurts when the weather is wet.



I suppose it depends on how you react to a nuisance...

When I was much younger I had a girlfriend who kept horses.

I was giving her a hand with the stables, she was in with one horse and I with another (much older and calmer).

Something fell over in the yard with a huge bang - the horse I was with had a bit of moment but calmed quite quickly.

The one she was with, that was much more flighty anyway, had a much worse reaction, jumped and bucked around and took a good while for her to calm it.

It wasn't until afterwards that we/she noticed the damage to her boot where the horse stamped on her foot, and apparently it didn't hurt much until she saw blood... 



So yeah, stamping on someone's foot?

If they're really interested in the fight, it might annoy them a little, it might do nothing.


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## dvcochran (Jan 12, 2019)

kempodisciple said:


> I agree fully with what you said. heavy boots/work boots will have an impact. a normal (barefoot or tennis shoes) foot stomp probably wont.


A person has already messed up if they get in this position, but we practice different drills where you are in a rear bear hug or something close. Most of them center around sinking so that they have your weight. Especially if you have a hard sole or a heavy shoe/boot on a hard scrap down the shin will at least get their attention. A good position to work on the foot also. As @Dirty Dog said, I have my doubts that anything you can do with a stomp would require an ER trip. Someone mentioned chronic pain after receiving a stomp. I imagine they have the dreaded soft tissue injury. Seems to linger forever.
That said, it is a pretty unrealistic position to be in unless you are clowning around with friends.


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## Headhunter (Jan 12, 2019)

amateur said:


> 1. If you get stomped on your foot, it hurts a whole lot, even if you're wearing shoes. I know from experience.
> 2. A push kick in the knee side can damage it permanently. I read it in Martin Dougherty's book: 'How to defend yourself, unarmed combat skills that work'.
> 
> Also, to answer some other posts, just because it does not occur to many people to attack you there in a fight does not mean I want to rely on that.


Will it hurt a bit? Yeah probably but shouldn't stop you dead unless you have 0 pain tollerance....yes a push kick to the knee can damage but it could also totally miss and do nothing. I could go to the shop right now and get shot dead...but I'm not going to cry at home about it.

My point is if you're attacked your going to probably get hurt a bit...you'll get a bit roughed up....suck it up basically it's a fight that's what happens. You can train a foot stomp defence for 10 years and your defence could still fail. There's really 0 point worrying about this stuff....just train (do you train? Genuine question) to the best of your ability and if your attacked deal with it the best you can.


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## Buka (Jan 12, 2019)

gpseymour said:


> I can't speak to broken ribs, but I've bruised a few in the past. Yeah, that hurt. Not sure what it would have meant in a fight, though. I've played sports with some injuries that I'd have expected to be fight-stoppers.



I seemed to suffer broken ribs every ten years or so. It's just plain awful. Severity and symptoms vary depending on how many are broken, but forget about doing much for six weeks or so.

And I'll tell you what if you ever break some......you will never be so fricken scared to sneeze in your life.


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## JR 137 (Jan 12, 2019)

Buka said:


> I seemed to suffer broken ribs every ten years or so. It's just plain awful. Severity and symptoms vary depending on how many are broken, but forget about doing much for six weeks or so.
> 
> And I'll tell you what if you ever break some......you will never be so fricken scared to sneeze in your life.


I never broke a rib, but I’ve damaged the cartilage that attaches to them and keeps them together. I’ve been told it’s the same feeling. Yup, really sucks. Mine didn’t bother me as much while sneezing. Definitely bothered me but it was tolerable. Picking up my daughters and putting them into car seats really, really sucked. One time I was contemplating just letting one of them climb into the front passenger seat and buckling her seatbelt instead. For about half a second anyway.


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## Bill Mattocks (Jan 12, 2019)

Buka said:


> I seemed to suffer broken ribs every ten years or so. It's just plain awful. Severity and symptoms vary depending on how many are broken, but forget about doing much for six weeks or so.
> 
> And I'll tell you what if you ever break some......you will never be so fricken scared to sneeze in your life.



And people who know you have a broken rib and try to make you laugh are just sadists who want to be damaged.


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## amateur (Jan 12, 2019)

jobo said:


> Errrr, the idea in a fight is to win, there and then, giving them a toe injury that aches 6 months later , is only a bonus if you won the fight.
> 
> Some one stamped on my toe whilst playing soccer, really hard, it hurt like hell and my toe nail  fell of and never recocered properly, that only caused me to punch him on the nose, very very hard, only professional soccer player fall to the ground screaming after a toe stamp,



It's not just the toes. I was stomped on the bridge.


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## Bill Mattocks (Jan 12, 2019)

amateur said:


> It's not just the toes. I was stomped on the bridge.



You really seem to be stuck on defending this as some undiscovered valuable fighting method.  I don't quite understand that.  First, it's been discovered.  It exists.  People who train MA often train various forms of low kicks, stomps, and other lower body attack techniques.  Second, even if you don't understand *why* no one does it in a real street fight, they don't.  Several people here with real-life experience in fights, including working law enforcement and bouncing in bars and so on, have told you that people just don't do it in a real fight.  Why not?  Because they don't.  Are they all dumber than you and just never figured it out?  Think about that.


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## amateur (Jan 12, 2019)

Bill Mattocks said:


> You really seem to be stuck on defending this as some undiscovered valuable fighting method.  I don't quite understand that.  First, it's been discovered.  It exists.  People who train MA often train various forms of low kicks, stomps, and other lower body attack techniques.  Second, even if you don't understand *why* no one does it in a real street fight, they don't.  Several people here with real-life experience in fights, including working law enforcement and bouncing in bars and so on, have told you that people just don't do it in a real fight.  Why not?  Because they don't.  Are they all dumber than you and just never figured it out?  Think about that.



It seems that, when you post on Beginner section, you should never go past the OP, otherwise you are considered stubborn and stupid. Chill, all I said is that I was stomped on the bridge and it hurt a lot. Maybe all of you here being masters has done something to your heads and you confuse a conversation with a quarrel. Whenever I answer a comment, whenever I say a little thing, I'm attacked as a narrow minded idiot.


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## Bill Mattocks (Jan 12, 2019)

amateur said:


> It seems that, when you post on Beginner section, you should never go past the OP, otherwise you are considered stubborn and stupid. Chill, all I said is that I was stomped on the bridge and it hurt a lot. Maybe all of you here being masters has done something to your heads and you confuse a conversation with a quarrel. Whenever I answer a comment, whenever I say a little thing, I'm attacked as a narrow minded idiot.



Fair enough.  I'm done with you.


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## pdg (Jan 12, 2019)

amateur said:


> It seems that, when you post on Beginner section, you should never go past the OP, otherwise you are considered stubborn and stupid. Chill, all I said is that I was stomped on the bridge and it hurt a lot. Maybe all of you here being masters has done something to your heads and you confuse a conversation with a quarrel. Whenever I answer a comment, whenever I say a little thing, I'm attacked as a narrow minded idiot.



It's not so much stupidity, but maybe some stubbornness.

You said about having a foot stamped on.

Yeah, fair enough, it can hurt. Can it hurt enough to be a fight ender? Hugely unlikely.

As I reported, I've seen someone (a 16 year old girl no less) get a quite nasty foot injury from it being stamped on by a metal shod horse and simply not notice immediately because her mind was fully occupied on the task of calming the horse so it didn't injure itself.

The issue is that you (and many others before you) keep on the same thing and that because it hurt you, it's going to have the same effect on everyone else in every circumstance.

Quite simply, a foot stamp is a low value and unreliable move - which is why you don't see it much.

Same goes for an attack to the knee really - it might 'work', but unless you get it just right (and/or they don't defend it) it's going to do nothing.


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## drop bear (Jan 12, 2019)

amateur said:


> It seems that, when you post on Beginner section, you should never go past the OP, otherwise you are considered stubborn and stupid. Chill, all I said is that I was stomped on the bridge and it hurt a lot. Maybe all of you here being masters has done something to your heads and you confuse a conversation with a quarrel. Whenever I answer a comment, whenever I say a little thing, I'm attacked as a narrow minded idiot.



How are you getting stomped? I mean striking you should be hitting the guy it you are close enough to get stomped and grappling you can only stomp if you are in the better position.


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## Deleted member 39746 (Jan 12, 2019)

Armour, thats a quick and easy way to protect any part of you.    (i dont recall it being a strictly sport question)

Addendum:  Safety boots are basically Armour for your feet pending what they are made to protect against, they tend to be pretty durable boots someone with trainers isnt going to break anything in though.


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## Hanshi (Jan 12, 2019)

A trained martial artist might think about knee, foot and ankle attacks; but if you're talking a real fight, then street punks & cocky bullies don't have the training or the organized thought processes to do such things.  I don't, won't and can't fight; I'm too old and have serious physical problems.  This means you will never, any longer, find me in a face-off with any opponent.  But a lifetime of training has left me with so many dirty tricks at my disposal that I KNOW do great damage.  To me soft targets such as eyes, throat, ears, temple and many others are vulnerable and easily damaged.


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## oftheherd1 (Jan 14, 2019)

Interesting thread and replies.  In the Hapkido I studied, we learned several low kicks.  We attacked the thigh, knee, shin, but the knee and ankle mostly. We were not taught to be shy about attacking any part of the body that would achieve our purpose of defending ourselves.  I never was taught to stomp the top of the foot.  But I guess if you can do it successfully time after time, you should keep practicing it and use it.

I would say to those who disparage kicks to the legs, that they are like all other offense moves.  You have to practice, practice, and practice more.  Not only will you get better, and should be more proficient, but you will also learn what works best for you most of the time.  Kicks to the thighs, knees, shins, and ankles can work and work well, causing great pain if not damage to an opponent.

In my case, I am not so good at inner thigh kicks.  I am good at intercepting an incoming kick by stepping forward, putting my same leg as the kicker is using, in the crotch, grabbing his leg and pulling it back and in.  If the opponent can't get up, he can't fight.  But that is a bit different than most of what has been discussed.  

But the other kicks I mentioned I can make work given the right circumstances provided by the attacker.  That is also key to using low kicks.


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## drop bear (Jan 14, 2019)

You can do them if you are wrapped up.


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## dvcochran (Jan 14, 2019)

oftheherd1 said:


> Interesting thread and replies.  In the Hapkido I studied, we learned several low kicks.  We attacked the thigh, knee, shin, but the knee and ankle mostly. We were not taught to be shy about attacking any part of the body that would achieve our purpose of defending ourselves.  I never was taught to stomp the top of the foot.  But I guess if you can do it successfully time after time, you should keep practicing it and use it.
> 
> I would say to those who disparage kicks to the legs, that they are like all other offense moves.  You have to practice, practice, and practice more.  Not only will you get better, and should be more proficient, but you will also learn what works best for you most of the time.  Kicks to the thighs, knees, shins, and ankles can work and work well, causing great pain if not damage to an opponent.
> 
> ...


Well said. I started to mention this earlier but your post really touches on the topic. Naturally, a lot of the replies are based on training more than back room/bar room/takedown experience. If you practice a style that heavily practices kicking/striking low targets or high targets exclusively, that is going to be your wheelhouse and what you will use in preference. There is nothing wrong with this but it can make the answer incomplete. I know that real world application is the best proving ground for any SD or MA technique(s). So I am mostly curious to hear from others experience on what their go to technique is and, just as important, what have they done or seen that just did not work?


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