# Fatigue



## Jade Tigress

I have been sooooooo tired. I'm going to bed at a reasonable time, usually around 10-11pm. But I also ending up falling asleep in front of the TV before I actually drag myself to bed. I find myself nodding off in front of the TV at 8:30! 

I usually sleep hard at night, where I used to wake up a few times. I get out of bed at 5:30am for work and I find myself barely able to keep my eyes open at my desk. I take vitamins, and I'm not anemic. I don't have any energy. Could it be the cold weather making me want to "hibernate"? I just want to sleep, sleep, sleep. I have no energy to exercise like I used to, but I try to push myself through at least some push-ups, sit-ups, and leg lifts or squats most days. It doesn't take more than 5 minutes to get through those. 

Any suggestions on getting my energy back? I feel like I could sleep for the next 20 hours. Maybe that's all I need, a day to sleep.


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## Lisa

My first question would be have you seen a doctor?  Fatigue can be for many reasons besides anemia.  If you have changed a prescription lately, that could be the cause.  It also could be that you are fighting something off, how long has this been happening?  It also could be, Pam, that in light of everything going on in your life you really do need a day to just sleep or at least relax and take it easy.  But go to the doctor, make sure that side is all taken care of.


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## KempoGuy06

While you think you are sleeping hard you might not be. The different levels of sleep are key and if you dont spend enough time in that state of sleep you wont recharge.

What are you eating habits like? This could play a part in it.

Also I suggest pick up a bottle of melatonin (sp?) Its a non narcotic sleeping aid. It doesnt put you to sleep but it helps keep you asleep.

B


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## Jade Tigress

Well, I haven't changed a prescription, and...I haven't been to the doctor, and I don't want to go. *sigh* As far as eating habits, to honest, mine suck. I'll admit I'm not eating well most of the time, but I do get a decent meal in here and there. Maybe that's it, or stress. Does stress making you sleepy?


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## kosho

How much water are you drinking a day?

get in a nice walk every day, even if it is only 1/2 mile - 1 mile.

banana's  3 times a week. do not eat fast food or food that is quick to heat up.

also call your DR. it could be other things inside. How old are you?

good luck,

kosho


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## punisher73

Stress can make you more sleepy, in that stress triggers the fight/flight responses and over the long haul burns out your "fuel tank" more quickly.

I know for me and alot of coworkers after the daylight savings time change it seems like it has messed up our internal clocks and we are more rundown and tired.

Also, have you looked into your biorhythm lately?  It is a cycle that goes up and down and I noticed alot of times when I'm feeling very worn down for no reason I can figure out (lack of sleep, sick, etc.) and I check the rhythm I am bottomed out.  Here is a link to a site that will show it

http://www.facade.com/biorhythm/


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## KempoGuy06

Jade Tigress said:


> Well, I haven't changed a prescription, and...I haven't been to the doctor, and I don't want to go. *sigh* As far as eating habits, to honest, mine suck. I'll admit I'm not eating well most of the time, but I do get a decent meal in here and there. Maybe that's it, or stress. Does stress making you sleepy?


Ive found that it will do both. Like me right now, with finals and a belt test coming up, I cant seem to shut my brain down to sleep at night, and even when I have enough time to allow myself to fall asleep I still dont want to get up.

Eating would be the first thing I would try. Start of with an apple or a couple slices of white bread before you workout (simple sugars, help to jump start your metabolism) 

Over the course of the day make sure you are eating whole grain food along with the protein and fat you need for your health goals. The whole grains are complex sugars and break down slower to help keep the metabolism running. 

This is what I do and it helps. If stress is the main factor the only option is to find a way to eliminate it.

hope this helps

B


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## JadecloudAlchemist

Winter time is the time for hibernation and conserving of energy according the Yellow emperor's classic in which I wrote an article here on this site.
 Now that we are in day light savings time does our mind already see at 5pm night falling. It could be adjusting to time differences. Maybe you are ill in some degree the body needing more sleep than usual could be a sign of illness. Diet can play a role in effecting are overall health and immune system same as stress. For me it is Winter time I sleep about 12-16hours because that is the nature of things of Winter.


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## MJS

Jade Tigress said:


> I have been sooooooo tired. I'm going to bed at a reasonable time, usually around 10-11pm. But I also ending up falling asleep in front of the TV before I actually drag myself to bed. I find myself nodding off in front of the TV at 8:30!
> 
> I usually sleep hard at night, where I used to wake up a few times. I get out of bed at 5:30am for work and I find myself barely able to keep my eyes open at my desk. I take vitamins, and I'm not anemic. I don't have any energy. Could it be the cold weather making me want to "hibernate"? I just want to sleep, sleep, sleep. I have no energy to exercise like I used to, but I try to push myself through at least some push-ups, sit-ups, and leg lifts or squats most days. It doesn't take more than 5 minutes to get through those.
> 
> Any suggestions on getting my energy back? I feel like I could sleep for the next 20 hours. Maybe that's all I need, a day to sleep.


 
I'm sitting here reading this and thinking, "Wow, this sounds just like me!"  The only thing I can suggest is a) talking to a doctor to see if there is anything wrong or b) try to get to bed earlier.  

I go to work for 4pm, so I try to grab at least an 1hr to 1 1/2 hr nap beforehand.  Helps a little, but if its not a busy night, and I find myself sitting idle for a while, I can just feel the tired feeling coming on.  

Even on days off, just like you, 8-8:30, my eyes are closing.  Wake up a few hours later saying, "So much for watching any tv tonight!" LOL!


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## Lisa

Punisher is right.  Stress does lead to the fight or flight responses.  It could be that you have been battling some stressors for a long period of time and your body/brain doesn't want to deal with them anymore and therefore just wants you to go to sleep.  It also could be that the stress isn't allowing your to get any good REM sleep.  If you are taking a sleep aid that also could be messing up your system and not letting you dream.  Dreaming is where our brain has a chance to put all of our every day experiences into order.  If you are not getting restful sleep and you are stressed, your body might just be shutting down trying to force you into doing what it needs.

Whatever it is, a trip to the doctor is in order, Pam.


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## MarkBarlow

Stress, depression, seasonal changes and changes in life style can all contribute to increased fatigue.


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## CoryKS

KempoGuy06 said:


> Also I suggest pick up a bottle of melatonin (sp?) Its a non narcotic sleeping aid. It doesnt put you to sleep but it helps keep you asleep.


 
I bought some at Whole Foods a couple years ago when I was having trouble sleeping.  I'm not exaggerating when I say it was the best sleep of my life.  Woke up almost bouncing out of bed.


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## Jade Tigress

Thanks everyone. It probably is a combination of things. I am dreaming though. I'm now thinking it might be a mild virus as I'm not feeling so well at work today, along with an office mate. I feel like a kid starting school again. I've been out of the workforce for so long, now I'm closed up in an office again with all these sick people! lol I'm not too worried about it, it's just a PITA. Plus, I'm sure stress has got my resistance down too. Stress, the weather, eating habits, daylight savings time, and winter viruses. I guess I should expect to feel rundown huh?


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## Tames D

Try a little apple cider vinegar w/ a shot of lemon juice. Tastes like **** but I swear by it.


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## karate-dragon

I preface this by saying I am not a doc, but a huge percentage of women of all ages have thyroid problems. Hypothyroid is very common. It is determined by a simple blood test (fasting). If you find you are fatigued, can sleep at the drop of a hat, feel the cold weather more, have a slight weight gain - you might have this. Very common, you take the right dose of synthroid every day and you get back to normal fast. Might be?


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## Kacey

Jade Tigress said:


> Thanks everyone. It probably is a combination of things. I am dreaming though. I'm now thinking it might be a mild virus as I'm not feeling so well at work today, along with an office mate. I feel like a kid starting school again. I've been out of the workforce for so long, now I'm closed up in an office again with all these sick people! lol I'm not too worried about it, it's just a PITA. Plus, I'm sure stress has got my resistance down too. Stress, the weather, eating habits, daylight savings time, and winter viruses. I guess I should expect to feel rundown huh?



You probably _should_ expect to feel run down - nonetheless, I agree with all of those who said go see a doctor.  It's annoying - often a PITA - still, better to go and rule out medical problems than to wait until they get bigger, and harder to fix.  I went through a period when I was under a great deal of stress, and my doctor ended up prescribing sleeping medication... which really annoyed me, until the first time I took it, and I actually _slept_ for the first time in weeks (possibly months) - I woke up in the morning feeling _sooooo_ much better.  Now I have a prescription that I take as needed; sometimes I take it every day for weeks, and sometimes I don't touch it for months, it just depends - but just knowing it's there if I need it is often all I need.


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## Jade Tigress

Thanks everyone. Meh, I'm not going to go to the doc quite yet. I know have alot of **** going on in my life right now, and that along with enviromental factors, are surely contributing to my feeling rundown. I actually had a little more energy today. If it keeps up for a few more weeks I'll call the doc. 

As far as the thyroid thing...it's huge possibility in many cases, and a few years ago when I went to the doc for the same thing, he tested my thyroid. I've had my thyroid tested MANY times over the years due to abnormal thyroid function symptoms, and it ALWAYS comes back normal. 

I really appreciate all your thoughts on this. :asian:


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## Dagney Taggert

Jade-

I just read your post.  My job requires me to deal with an unusually high incidence of stressors and tension so I pay careful attention to my stress level and how it affects my well-being.  I have found that excessive stress forces me into short periods of what you are describing.  

Have you examined your personal life?  Last year, I got married, sold a house, bought a new house, and moved.  So when December came around, my new husband and I were just EXHAUSTED for seemingly no reason.  We started looking back on our year, and realized, oh, duh, we've just undergone these massive changes.  To your body, stress is stress, even positive changes in your life will produce stress, which will in turn, eventually wear you down. 

Eat your B-Vitamins!  Lean red meat, broccoli, and spinach are your friends.   I have read your profile, and you sound like a woman who is firing on all pistons 24 7.  Give yourself permission to take a day and "tuck in", meaning DO NOTHING.     

Dagney


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## TheOriginalName

Just something i noticed in the original post: 

Bed time: 2000 to 2100
Wake Time: 0530

This equates to approximately 6.5 to 7.5 hours sleep. 
Normally adults require approximately 8 hours sleep - which means you've been denying your body of upto 1.5 hours for some time. 

Perhaps instead of attempting to stay awake you should listen to your body - get that extra bit of sleep that it's asking for and perhaps it'll reward you by allowing you to wake up easier. 

The only reason i say this is because i just went though the same thing - was exhausted in the mornings because i started to stay up too late. I've only just been able to get back into a regular routine and i'm feeling much better now.


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## Jade Tigress

Excellent observations DT and ON. Thank you. About a month back I had a week where I felt like I had energy again, I felt *normal*. It was great, it didn't last long though. By the following week I was dragging again. 

You're both right, I'm burning the candle at both ends. I have been falling asleep earlier these days, but I seem to be one of those people who needs more like 9 or so hours of sleep to feel really rested. Plus I've been under some major stress for quite a while now. I'm hoping with summer around the corner I'll perk up again. :asian:


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## kidswarrior

Every post I read had a good idea or two, and I'm certainly not qualified to offer much of a diagnosis, but I'll just mention that 1-2% of us have sleep apnea. Most don't know it. My whole life I would sleep 9 hours a night and as I got past 40, it still wasn't enough. Now, with the diagnosis and treatment, I can survive fine on 6 hours, although 7 is good and 8 is heavenly. And my body is not giving itself that shot of adrenaline once a minute while I sleep in order to keep me from choking--a great health relief. Anyway, just a thought.


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## Jade Tigress

kidswarrior said:


> Every post I read had a good idea or two, and I'm certainly not qualified to offer much of a diagnosis, but I'll just mention that 1-2% of us have sleep apnea. Most don't know it. My whole life I would sleep 9 hours a night and as I got past 40, it still wasn't enough. Now, with the diagnosis and treatment, I can survive fine on 6 hours, although 7 is good and 8 is heavenly. And my body is not giving itself that shot of adrenaline once a minute while I sleep in order to keep me from choking--a great health relief. Anyway, just a thought.




Hmmm...I know a little about sleep apnea but haven't looked into it much. I'll do a web search on it today for more details. I know it's when you stop breathing for periods of time while you sleep. I must admit there are times I have actually woken myself up for a gasp of breath. I obviously don't know if I do this regularly. 

So Mark, did you have to go through the whole sleep study thing for diagnosis? 

I swear, I fell asleep by 7:30-8:00 last night, had to get up at 5:30 this morning, and I feel like I could easily sleep a few more hours.


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## kidswarrior

Jade Tigress said:


> Hmmm...I know a little about sleep apnea but haven't looked into it much. I'll do a web search on it today for more details. I know it's when you stop breathing for periods of time while you sleep. I must admit *there are times I have actually woken myself up for a gasp of breath*. I obviously don't know if I do this regularly.
> 
> So Mark, *did you have to go through the whole sleep study thing* for diagnosis?
> 
> I swear, I fell asleep by 7:30-8:00 last night, had to get up at 5:30 this morning, and *I feel like I could easily sleep a few more hours.*


Pam, you really need to have the sleep study done, to rule it out if nothing else. It's pretty painless--one night in a center, which is often like a hotel, and a 15 minutes follow up visit with their specialist/dr. Found out later it's also a serious health issue. So, yeah, I'd really recommend it to you.

Considering I don't snore anymore (so my wife can sleep now, too), don't wake myself up (usually from that gasping/choking you're talking about), and still at my age have the energy to keep working with one of the hardest student populations in any K-12 setting (street-savvy kids), it really isn't optional for me (Example: yesterday after school, we had a fight/jumping/borderline gang brawl between different races; Since I'm teacher/site principal [there's only my class in the shopping center]/security, I get to do it all. Had to stop it/sort it out, deal with PD when they came, notify parents/notify district admin. And that was a Monday.  Turned off the light at 10:30 last night, got up at 5:30, feel fine.


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## Jade Tigress

kidswarrior said:


> Pam, you really need to have the sleep study done, to rule it out if nothing else. It's pretty painless--one night in a center, which is often like a hotel, and a 15 minutes follow up visit with their specialist/dr. Found out later it's also a serious health issue. So, yeah, I'd really recommend it to you.
> 
> Considering I don't snore anymore (so my wife can sleep now, too), don't wake myself up (usually from that gasping/choking you're talking about), and still at my age have the energy to keep working with one of the hardest student populations in any K-12 setting (street-savvy kids), it really isn't optional for me (Example: yesterday after school, we had a fight/jumping/borderline gang brawl between different races; Since I'm teacher/site principal [there's only my class in the shopping center]/security, I get to do it all. Had to stop it/sort it out, deal with PD when they came, notify parents/notify district admin. And that was a Monday.  Turned off the light at 10:30 last night, got up at 5:30, feel fine.



Guess I should look into it. I was so tired last night I stayed home from training and I HATE missing class. Last night I got 10 hours of sleep, was still extremely tired when the alarm clock went off, and now I'm home from work and feel like I won't be able to keep my eyes open past 7:30 again, actually I could easily close my eyes now (6 pm) but will force myself to stay up for a little while. 

I looked up sleep apnea symptoms, I have some. The fatigue of course, high blood pressure, and depression. I wake myself up for breath at times. I snore sometimes, I don't think I snore all the time. However, I sleep on my side, have had my tonsils and adenoids removed since I was a kid, and am not overweight. 

I just shouldn't be this tired ALL THE TIME and I drink coffee all day long! It sucks.


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## kidswarrior

Jade Tigress said:


> Guess I should look into it. I was so tired last night I stayed home from training and I HATE missing class. Last night I got 10 hours of sleep, was still extremely tired when the alarm clock went off, and now I'm home from work and feel like I won't be able to keep my eyes open past 7:30 again, actually I could easily close my eyes now (6 pm) but will force myself to stay up for a little while.
> 
> I looked up sleep apnea symptoms, I have some. The fatigue of course, high blood pressure, and depression. I wake myself up for breath at times. I snore sometimes, I don't think I snore all the time. However, I sleep on my side, have had my tonsils and adenoids removed since I was a kid, and am not overweight.
> 
> I just shouldn't be this tired ALL THE TIME and I drink coffee all day long! It sucks.


I don't know, Pam... This sounds awfully familiar. :idea:

Just before I had my first study/diagnosis, I could barely drive home 30-40 minutes cross town in the afternoon. I'd come very close to nodding off a couple of times every drive. Hypertension, bouts of depression... after I got the machine (treatment), people told me they could see the difference in my temperament.  I'd had no idea.


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## Jade Tigress

kidswarrior said:


> I don't know, Pam... This sounds awfully familiar. :idea:



Oh great. 

I got 9 1/2 hours of sleep last night and this morning I feel like I was up all night. Alright, I'll cal the doc this week. 

I'm glad you got diagnosed and are feeling better Mark. Thanks so much for the info. :asian: I just want my energy back, this has been going on for too long.


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## Yari

It takes time for your body to ajust. And the older you are the longer it can take. So even if you had 1 day with 95, hours sleep, you have to keep going.

from what I've heard the best way to get a good sleep, is to go to bed around the same periode, and to get up around the the same each day. Think about the food/candy/soda you eat /drink before going to bed. And turn off the TV. Do not use the TV as a means of tunning down. Think of it as programming your body/mind on how to fall asleep. You want it to fall asleep "normally" so that's how it should be.

Just my 2 cents.
/Yari


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## Jade Tigress

Yari said:


> It takes time for your body to ajust. And the older you are the longer it can take. So even if you had 1 day with 95, hours sleep, you have to keep going.
> 
> from what I've heard the best way to get a good sleep, is to go to bed around the same periode, and to get up around the the same each day. Think about the food/candy/soda you eat /drink before going to bed. And turn off the TV. Do not use the TV as a means of tunning down. Think of it as programming your body/mind on how to fall asleep. You want it to fall asleep "normally" so that's how it should be.
> 
> Just my 2 cents.
> /Yari



Thanks for your observations Yari. :asian: My problem is that I already considered those things without relief. 

I decided to take Mark's advice as his statements seemed to hit home most for me. 

I called my doctor and saw her yesterday afternoon.
Upon explaining my symptoms she thinks it _highly_ likely that I DO have sleep apnea and has ordered an overnight sleep study for me. 

She discussed the differing causes of sleep apnea and said most of her patients with sleep apnea are overweight, however, because I am small she talked to me about the possibility that my larynx is narrow and when it relaxes during sleep it closes and prevents breathing. Since I have already had my tonsils and adenoids removed that is one less surgical possibility. But she said sometimes they will remove the uvula or part of the soft palate. 

She looked in my mouth and noticed that the back of my throat, the soft palate, slopes, which is anatomical for me, but is already indicative of a narrowed air passage. Most peoples soft palate's are straight and provide a much wider air passage. 

She said surgery would be a last resort and that the "pressure machine" (I can't remember what she called it right now) would be tried first if the diagnosis was confirmed, and that there is also a device EMT's use to open airways that may work for me. 

If not sleep apnea she said it's possible I am having vivid dreams which are preventing me from restful sleep. 

In any case, we're doing the sleep study to find out what's going on so I can get my energy back. 

Thanks again for all the excellent advice everyone. I'll post an update once I have the study done and get a definite diagnosis.


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## Xue Sheng

Jade Tigress said:


> I decided to take Mark's advice as his statements seemed to hit home most for me.


 
Good, then you don't need me going on about it



Jade Tigress said:


> I called my doctor and saw her yesterday afternoon.
> Upon explaining my symptoms she thinks it highly likely that I DO have sleep apnea and has ordered an overnight sleep study for me.


 
I have it but not all the time and if and only if I sleep on my back, especially if I have a sinus infection like I do at the moment, I know it is not much fun. 

Please get checked and please let us know how it goes.


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## kidswarrior

Xue Sheng said:


> I have it but not all the time and if and only if I sleep on my back, especially if I have a sinus infection like I do at the moment, I know it is not much fun.


Get well, and don't let the Sl.Ap. get you down. 



> Please get checked and please let us know how it goes.


Need I say anything more, here?


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## IcemanSK

Glad you're gettin' it looked at. Let us know how it goes.


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## jonbey

A friend of mine has sleep apnoea. He uses a machine when he sleeps, no big deal. Says he has much better sleep now.

But until that is diagnosed fully, look at your diet. Too many carbs, especially refined carbs (bread, pasta, junk food, chocolate etc), can make you lethargic. I recently moved to a high protein low carb diet, and I already feel like I have more energy!

Back to sleep apnoea, I think that I too have it. I cannot sleep on my back, if I do, it can cause nightmares and sort of snorting noises from me. I wake up in a panic and roll over to sleep. So I do not sleep on my back any more! Sometimes have aching shoulders in the morning from sleeping in odd positions, but at least I can breathe.


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## Dagney Taggert

Soooo right on about the diet thing!  I follow the Gracie diet as strictly as I can.  I don't mix certain foods, I stay away from wheat, and base my food choices around lean meat, vegetables, nuts, and rice.

Well, Saturday morning I decided to "treat" myself to some granola french toast, and I felt like total crap the whole day.  I used to eat like that all the time!  Changing my eating habits transformed my energy level for the better.

Dagney


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## Jade Tigress

Well, I had my sleep study Tuesday night. It sucked. I slept terribly tossing and turning, wires all over the place from my legs to my head. Then when I finally did sleep, fitfully, I was woken up twice by the nurse because I pulled something loose. All in all I probably got 4-5 hours real sleep, but it felt like 2. 

Anyway, the nurse told me in the morning that even though I did have "some breathing episodes" and "some leg episodes" it's not severe enough to need treatment, and I don't snore. lol 

She asked how long I've been on my antidepressant and thought maybe it needs to be changed, or maybe it's just the depression making me so tired. I refuse to change my scripts though. I won't change my BP med either. It took a long time to find drugs that I don't feel any side effects from. If fatigue is the worst side effect I'll live with it. I've experienced far worse SE's before finding the ones I'm on. 

I can't possibly be anemic, I eat plenty of red meat and take vitamins. Maybe I'm just getting old. heh 

Anyway, the results still need to be sent to my doc. I think I'll just give up on this and chalk it up to life. It does piss me off that I don't have the energy to do the things I used to have plenty of energy for. I feel like a slug. Maybe it really is just the depression and if that goes away I'll get my energy back. Maybe it's a BP/antidepressant combo side effect. I just don't have the energy to pursue it anymore. :lol2:


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## kidswarrior

Jade Tigress said:


> Well, I had my sleep study Tuesday night. It sucked. I slept terribly tossing and turning, wires all over the place from my legs to my head. Then when I finally did sleep, fitfully, I was woken up twice by the nurse because I pulled something loose. All in all I probably got 4-5 hours real sleep, but it felt like 2.
> 
> Anyway, the nurse told me in the morning that even though I did have "some breathing episodes" and "some leg episodes" it's not severe enough to need treatment, and I don't snore. lol
> 
> She asked how long I've been on my antidepressant and thought maybe it needs to be changed, or maybe it's just the depression making me so tired. I refuse to change my scripts though. I won't change my BP med either. It took a long time to find drugs that I don't feel any side effects from. If fatigue is the worst side effect I'll live with it. I've experienced far worse SE's before finding the ones I'm on.
> 
> I can't possibly be anemic, I eat plenty of red meat and take vitamins. Maybe I'm just getting old. heh
> 
> Anyway, the results still need to be sent to my doc. I think I'll just give up on this and chalk it up to life. It does piss me off that I don't have the energy to do the things I used to have plenty of energy for. I feel like a slug. Maybe it really is just the depression and if that goes away I'll get my energy back. Maybe it's a BP/antidepressant combo side effect. I just don't have the energy to pursue it anymore. :lol2:


Whatever it is, hope you feel better soon. But you're right that Life Happens, and the old bod changes as the decades roll on.

Glad you ruled out apnea, too. It's something to know about yourself. And those studies _are _great fun.


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## Xue Sheng

Thanks for letting us know and I hope you feel better soon


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## jks9199

Jade Tigress said:


> She asked how long I've been on my antidepressant and thought maybe it needs to be changed, or maybe it's just the depression making me so tired. I refuse to change my scripts though. I won't change my BP med either. It took a long time to find drugs that I don't feel any side effects from. If fatigue is the worst side effect I'll live with it. I've experienced far worse SE's before finding the ones I'm on.
> 
> I can't possibly be anemic, I eat plenty of red meat and take vitamins. Maybe I'm just getting old. heh
> 
> Anyway, the results still need to be sent to my doc. I think I'll just give up on this and chalk it up to life. It does piss me off that I don't have the energy to do the things I used to have plenty of energy for. I feel like a slug. Maybe it really is just the depression and if that goes away I'll get my energy back. Maybe it's a BP/antidepressant combo side effect. I just don't have the energy to pursue it anymore. :lol2:



There's something wrong, if you've lost the energy you used to have.  And you don't know what else it's an indicator of.

Keep working on it.

One thought... How do you really know you're not anemic?  Have you had the blood tests?  Because it could be that something is blocking you from absorbing the iron despite your diet, or keeping your body from making red blood cells, or you're making too many of them...  or something else.  Might be worth actually checking it out...


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## Jade Tigress

jks9199 said:


> There's something wrong, if you've lost the energy you used to have.  And you don't know what else it's an indicator of.
> 
> Keep working on it.
> 
> One thought... How do you really know you're not anemic?  Have you had the blood tests?  Because it could be that something is blocking you from absorbing the iron despite your diet, or keeping your body from making red blood cells, or you're making too many of them...  or something else.  Might be worth actually checking it out...



Good points. I'll wait to hear from my doc about the sleep study. She'll probably suggest some blood work. I just hate the runaround trying to figure it out. *sigh* But you're right. :asian:


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## Dagney Taggert

Jade-

One more food-vitamin-mineral possibility:  have you considered that your magnesium levels could be low?  This could possibly account for the excessive low mood.  Supplements are okay, but straight broccoli is a better choice.  

Hang in there and keep at the research!  I am thinking good thoughts for you.


Dagney


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## Jade Tigress

Dagney Taggert said:


> Jade-
> 
> One more food-vitamin-mineral possibility:  have you considered that your magnesium levels could be low?  This could possibly account for the excessive low mood.  Supplements are okay, but straight broccoli is a better choice.
> 
> Hang in there and keep at the research!  I am thinking good thoughts for you.
> 
> 
> Dagney



Hmmm...no I haven't considered it. I have been eating lots of broccoli lately in salads, but it's not something I eat on regular basis year round. I do take high quality supplements in capsule form, but I haven't been taking them as regularly as I used to the past several months. Thanks for your insight. :asian:


----------



## morph4me

I don't have much to offer on the subject except that I've noticed that since I cut down on my sugar intake I've got much more energy. When I have alot of sugar, I wake up the next day feeling very sluggish and am exhausted by early afternoon. Another thing to consider is that maybe you're getting acclimated to your medication, and it's time to be reevaluated and see if the dosage should be changed. Feel better, Pam.


----------



## Mr G

This tread has gone on a while,  I hope things are going better for you. 

I'm a Registered Nurse, and I have to say: if you go to enough doctors one of them will give you a diagnosis.  A diagnosis, however, is not always a solution.  

Be cautious about sleep aids, prescription or herbal.  They have their place, but...I feel that sleep and energy problems are often a very complex relationship of several small things.  They can be hard to sort out.  

  Does the energy drain wax and wane or are you feeling run down all the time, every day?

  Early on you mentioned feeling like you wanted to sleep for 20 hours.  Did you try it? Sometimes, I feel like I need to sleep a lot and I usually feel better if I can.  
  About once a month I have a sleepless night (Always seem like it's around the full moon) and I just stay up most of the night.  If I can't fall asleep after 20 minutes in bed, I get up.  laying there trying  to sleep just makes it worse.  

  Do you nap?  Does it help?  I have nothing against napping!

I have tried to establish a routine to my bedtime.  I can't always follow it, but some breathing mediation often helps...

Good luck to you.


----------



## Jade Tigress

Mr G said:


> This tread has gone on a while,  I hope things are going better for you.
> 
> I'm a Registered Nurse, and I have to say: if you go to enough doctors one of them will give you a diagnosis.  A diagnosis, however, is not always a solution.
> 
> Be cautious about sleep aids, prescription or herbal.  They have their place, but...I feel that sleep and energy problems are often a very complex relationship of several small things.  They can be hard to sort out.
> 
> Does the energy drain wax and wane or are you feeling run down all the time, every day?
> 
> Early on you mentioned feeling like you wanted to sleep for 20 hours.  Did you try it? Sometimes, I feel like I need to sleep a lot and I usually feel better if I can.
> About once a month I have a sleepless night (Always seem like it's around the full moon) and I just stay up most of the night.  If I can't fall asleep after 20 minutes in bed, I get up.  laying there trying  to sleep just makes it worse.
> 
> Do you nap?  Does it help?  I have nothing against napping!
> 
> I have tried to establish a routine to my bedtime.  I can't always follow it, but some breathing mediation often helps...
> 
> Good luck to you.



Thank you. I sleep alot most of the time. When I sleep less I feel it. I fall asleep quickly and usually sleep soundly. It takes me a long time to get going in the morning. Then I usually have a few hours where I feel I'm at my peak then crash mid-afternoon and never regain energy. I don't use any sleep aids. I don't need them! lol I need energy! 

My doc now wants me to have a consultation with a sleep specialist. I haven't scheduled it yet.


----------



## FieldDiscipline

Hi there.  I'll confess to not having read all of the above, have you had your thyroid checked?


----------



## Jade Tigress

FieldDiscipline said:


> Hi there.  I'll confess to not having read all of the above, have you had your thyroid checked?



Yeah, a couple times. It's fine.


----------



## Mr G

Hello to all,
I hope you are having some good days, I can appreciate how frustrating this is.  
You mentioned lab tests:  I am assuming you have had one or more of the basic tests:

CBC (Complete Blood Count) this tests the components of blood.  screens for Infections, anemia, and leukemia
Metabolic Panels (AKA Chem 7 or Chem 10, 14, etc) This screens for metabolic problems like diabetes.  Also checks Kidney function.  The larger numbers (Chem 14) also check your liver.  
Thyroid tests
Bring your own copy of these results to the specialist appointment.  Don't rely on other offices to forward them.  

Mental health is also sometimes involved. Stress, Depression, and Anxiety are all common culprits. 

Chiropractors can be helpful if you find pain is interrupting your sleep.

If no disease process can be found sleep specialists usually focus on mechanical problems like sleep apnea.  
Be prepared for the basic suggestions: 

Cut out Nicotine, Caffeine, and Alcohol. 
Prepare a quiet, cool, dark bedroom  that is used only for sleep. 
Establish a sleep routine
It might be helpful to keep an "energy diary" to record successes and troubles.
You may want to try them before your appointment, so that you can discuss the results with the sleep specialist.  Saves a follow up appointment.

My background is traditional western health care, but I have to say that there is something to both Feng Shui and Meditation.  

I appologize for the long post, but I also hope this is helpful


----------



## Jade Tigress

Mr G said:


> Hello to all,
> I hope you are having some good days, I can appreciate how frustrating this is.
> You mentioned lab tests:  I am assuming you have had one or more of the basic tests:
> 
> CBC (Complete Blood Count) this tests the components of blood.  screens for Infections, anemia, and leukemia
> Metabolic Panels (AKA Chem 7 or Chem 10, 14, etc) This screens for metabolic problems like diabetes.  Also checks Kidney function.  The larger numbers (Chem 14) also check your liver.
> Thyroid tests
> Bring your own copy of these results to the specialist appointment.  Don't rely on other offices to forward them.
> 
> Mental health is also sometimes involved. Stress, Depression, and Anxiety are all common culprits.
> 
> Chiropractors can be helpful if you find pain is interrupting your sleep.
> 
> If no disease process can be found sleep specialists usually focus on mechanical problems like sleep apnea.
> Be prepared for the basic suggestions:
> 
> Cut out Nicotine, Caffeine, and Alcohol.
> Prepare a quiet, cool, dark bedroom  that is used only for sleep.
> Establish a sleep routine
> It might be helpful to keep an "energy diary" to record successes and troubles.
> You may want to try them before your appointment, so that you can discuss the results with the sleep specialist.  Saves a follow up appointment.
> 
> My background is traditional western health care, but I have to say that there is something to both Feng Shui and Meditation.
> 
> I appologize for the long post, but I also hope this is helpful



Thanks for the advice. 
As far as lab tests, I've had a few thyroid tests in the past, all fine. The other two I haven't had and my doc hasn't scheduled any additional lab work. 

A couple questions on the basic suggestions. I can understand how alcohol would cause fatigue, but nicotine and caffeine are stimulants. How do they figure in? 

I do only sleep in my bedroom. I am curious if sleeping isn't a problem, why would that, and establishing a sleep routine, be important? 

An energy diary is an interesting idea. 

I really appreciate your input. :asian:


----------



## Kacey

Jade Tigress said:


> A couple questions on the basic suggestions. I can understand how alcohol would cause fatigue, but nicotine and caffeine are stimulants. How do they figure in?



Well, I'm not Mr. G - but here's my understanding:  nicotine and caffeine _are_ stimulants, and their effect on the body can affect sleep habits up to 6 to 8 hours after they are ingested.  They can prevent sleep entirely, or prevent it from being as restful as it should be, which can lead to fatigue.

Also, if you ingest too much of either (or both), you can end up in a cycle where your body needs a certain amount of the substance for true alertness, and when your blood level drops below a certain level, you become less alert/awake - so you ingest more, which increases your alertness, and then prevents proper sleep patterns, which then leads to chronic fatigue.



Jade Tigress said:


> I do only sleep in my bedroom. I am curious if sleeping isn't a problem, why would that, and establishing a sleep routine, be important?



If your sleep patterns are inconsistent, you may not be getting truly _restful_ sleep - if your sleep patterns are sufficiently inconsistent you can throw off your biorhythms, which can easily lead to fatigue.  Your body adapts best when you go to sleep and wake up on a reasonably consistent schedule - people who don't get enough sleep during the week and try to make it up by sleeping in on the weekends, for example, often have real trouble getting up on Monday because they've thrown off their body's rhythms.  Your body comes to expect a certain sleep cycle, and various rhythms adjust to that - your temperature drops as you sleep, and slowly rises again as you approach waking - but if you go to sleep and get up at different times on a regular basis, these autonomic adjustments don't happen.  This also leads to problems with chronic fatigue.

Sleeping only in your bedroom helps to establish a sleep routine.  Also, if you're accustomed to sleeping in multiple places, you can give your body conflicting signals if you are somewhere you sleep sometimes, but not always - for example, if sometimes you nap on the couch and sometimes you watch TV (or nap _while_ watching TV - that's even worse) then you are, again, giving your body inconsistent signals about when and where to sleep, further disrupting your body rhythms.


----------



## Mr G

I'll do the best I can,
Deep, restful sleep is the goal, not just unconsciousness.  This is the problem most people think of with sleep apnea.  They sleep, but wake up tired.  They never gain enough *deep* sleep.  But, they also don't become awake enough to be aware that they are not "sleeping"!  

Stimulants interfere with the deepest sleep: REM sleep.  That's the part of sleep where you become more rested.  (Also when you dream)  In essence, think of the mind as (slightly) awake even if the body is asleep.  

The sleep routine is about training your body to sleep.  Get your mind to quiet down and let the deep sleep come.   In a perfect world, a sleep routine would have you begin "getting ready to sleep" 30 minutes to 2 hours before you actually hit the pillow.  Use that time to systematically:
1) Clear up the trials and tribulations of the day.  Allow your mind to relax.  Meditate. 
2) Gain a comfortable environment.  Reserving the bedroom for sleep alone will help que your body that it is time to sleep.  Cool and dark are also signals that your body uses to know when to sleep.  Don't let the room get too warm. Even if you pile on the blankets, a cool room helps.  Some people recommend taking a hot shower before bed.  It feels good, it's relaxing,  plus your body is cooling off as you drift off to sleep.  
3) Get your body ready to sleep. Clean up, Stretch out, get your body comfortable and relaxed...

Perhaps sleep isn't the problem. Do you get REM sleep? Do you wake up tired?  Do you dream?  (I think you mentioned you had a sleep study).   That's a different can of worms...

Sleep is not very well understood.  It's very individualized.  It's really hard to apply good science to it.  Unfortunately it is often becomes a detective case...
The Mayo center has a good website about sleep. http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/sleep/SL99999

I hope this helps


----------



## Jade Tigress

Kacey said:


> Well, I'm not Mr. G - but here's my understanding:  nicotine and caffeine _are_ stimulants, and their effect on the body can affect sleep habits up to 6 to 8 hours after they are ingested.  They can prevent sleep entirely, or prevent it from being as restful as it should be, which can lead to fatigue.
> 
> Also, if you ingest too much of either (or both), you can end up in a cycle where your body needs a certain amount of the substance for true alertness, and when your blood level drops below a certain level, you become less alert/awake - so you ingest more, which increases your alertness, and then prevents proper sleep patterns, which then leads to chronic fatigue.
> 
> 
> 
> If your sleep patterns are inconsistent, you may not be getting truly _restful_ sleep - if your sleep patterns are sufficiently inconsistent you can throw off your biorhythms, which can easily lead to fatigue.  Your body adapts best when you go to sleep and wake up on a reasonably consistent schedule - people who don't get enough sleep during the week and try to make it up by sleeping in on the weekends, for example, often have real trouble getting up on Monday because they've thrown off their body's rhythms.  Your body comes to expect a certain sleep cycle, and various rhythms adjust to that - your temperature drops as you sleep, and slowly rises again as you approach waking - but if you go to sleep and get up at different times on a regular basis, these autonomic adjustments don't happen.  This also leads to problems with chronic fatigue.
> 
> Sleeping only in your bedroom helps to establish a sleep routine.  Also, if you're accustomed to sleeping in multiple places, you can give your body conflicting signals if you are somewhere you sleep sometimes, but not always - for example, if sometimes you nap on the couch and sometimes you watch TV (or nap _while_ watching TV - that's even worse) then you are, again, giving your body inconsistent signals about when and where to sleep, further disrupting your body rhythms.




Makes total sense Kacey. :asian: 



Mr G said:


> I'll do the best I can,
> Deep, restful sleep is the goal, not just unconsciousness.  This is the problem most people think of with sleep apnea.  They sleep, but wake up tired.  They never gain enough *deep* sleep.  But, they also don't become awake enough to be aware that they are not "sleeping"!
> 
> Stimulants interfere with the deepest sleep: REM sleep.  That's the part of sleep where you become more rested.  (Also when you dream)  In essence, think of the mind as (slightly) awake even if the body is asleep.
> 
> The sleep routine is about training your body to sleep.  Get your mind to quiet down and let the deep sleep come.   In a perfect world, a sleep routine would have you begin "getting ready to sleep" 30 minutes to 2 hours before you actually hit the pillow.  Use that time to systematically:
> 1) Clear up the trials and tribulations of the day.  Allow your mind to relax.  Meditate.
> 2) Gain a comfortable environment.  Reserving the bedroom for sleep alone will help que your body that it is time to sleep.  Cool and dark are also signals that your body uses to know when to sleep.  Don't let the room get too warm. Even if you pile on the blankets, a cool room helps.  Some people recommend taking a hot shower before bed.  It feels good, it's relaxing,  plus your body is cooling off as you drift off to sleep.
> 3) Get your body ready to sleep. Clean up, Stretch out, get your body comfortable and relaxed...
> 
> Perhaps sleep isn't the problem. Do you get REM sleep? Do you wake up tired?  Do you dream?  (I think you mentioned you had a sleep study).   That's a different can of worms...
> 
> Sleep is not very well understood.  It's very individualized.  It's really hard to apply good science to it.  Unfortunately it is often becomes a detective case...
> The Mayo center has a good website about sleep. http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/sleep/SL99999
> 
> I hope this helps



Thanks again. I'll check out the website and try to alter my "falling asleep" routine. Which now consists of falling asleep in front of the TV then going to bed. I don't _have _to be in front of the TV to go to sleep, it just feels funny to be climbing into bed at 8pm, lol! 

I do dream and remember my dreams fairly regularly, though not all the time. But I remember them enough to know that I dream regularly, frequently, whatever. I dream alot.


----------



## girlbug2

You mentioned in an earlier post that you have had your thyroid levels checked before and they were fine at that time. What I found out recently is that in the past few years the definition of low thyroid has been redefined so that levels that would not have been previously considered "low" are now recognized as such. Your doctor may not be aware of the new standards -- talk with him/her about it.
A simple home test: take your temperature in your armpit first thing in the morning before you get out of bed. Leave it there for 10 minutes. Record the results for three days in a row just to be sure. (Note: it's best not to do this at that certain time of month, as that can fluctuate body temperature)If it reads less than 97.8, you just might be hypothyroid. If it reads under 96.8, you very likely are.
There is such a thing as subclinical hypothyroidism that won't show up on lab tests. Insist that your doctor take it seriously if you are finding low body temps in the morning.

I am aware of all this because I have two hypothyroid family members.


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## Jade Tigress

girlbug2 said:


> You mentioned in an earlier post that you have had your thyroid levels checked before and they were fine at that time. What I found out recently is that in the past few years the definition of low thyroid has been redefined so that levels that would not have been previously considered "low" are now recognized as such. Your doctor may not be aware of the new standards -- talk with him/her about it.
> A simple home test: take your temperature in your armpit first thing in the morning before you get out of bed. Leave it there for 10 minutes. Record the results for three days in a row just to be sure. (Note: it's best not to do this at that certain time of month, as that can fluctuate body temperature)If it reads less than 97.8, you just might be hypothyroid. If it reads under 96.8, you very likely are.
> There is such a thing as subclinical hypothyroidism that won't show up on lab tests. Insist that your doctor take it seriously if you are finding low body temps in the morning.
> 
> I am aware of all this because I have two hypothyroid family members.



Thanks, I'll give it a try. Does all hypothyroidism result in overweight? 

I'm supposed to make an appt. for a consult with a sleep specialist but haven't gotten around to it yet. 

I have some days where I feel pretty good. Can stay up til  maybe 10 or so, can exercise a little bit. Then, for instance, yesterday, I was tired all day, no reason for it. Just absolutely exhausted. I came home from work and after having energy to exercise a bit Monday and Tuesday, sat down and couldn't get back up. I fell asleep in the chair at 7:30! My son called me at 8:30 and woke me up. I fell back asleep at 8:35 til 9:30. Got up and went to bed. Slept sound as rock until my alarm went off at 4:30 this morning. I didn't feel terrible when I got up, but if it hadn't been for the alarm I wouldn't have woken up. Crazy huh?


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## kidswarrior

Jade Tigress said:


> I'm supposed to make an appt. for a consult with a sleep specialist but haven't gotten around to it yet.


And why not?


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## Xue Sheng

kidswarrior said:


> And why not?


 

YEAH!!!

What he said


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## Jade Tigress

kidswarrior said:


> And why not?





Xue Sheng said:


> YEAH!!!
> 
> What he said



I know, I know. Well....because it takes time, and energy, and well...I just haven't! 

But I know I should. It's all just such a PITA. *sigh* I'll try to remember to do it soon. I guess part of me feels it won't accomplish anything just like the sleep study didn't.


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## kidswarrior

Jade Tigress said:


> I know, I know. Well....because it takes time, and energy, and well...I just haven't!
> 
> But I know I should. It's all just such a PITA. *sigh* I'll try to remember to do it soon. I guess part of me feels it won't accomplish anything just like the sleep study didn't.


_Excuuuse_-es. *Now where's the emoticon for giving the raspberries?* 

Girl, stop stalling. Yeah, it's a PITA.  But so's living with something that sucks away the quality of life, and can be corrected.


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## Jade Tigress

Ok, I'll try to remember to call next week and schedule an appt. I have a very busy day today. I am tired of this. HA! <---- (Alf voice). I made a funny.


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## morph4me

Don't listen to those guys, they just don't understand how much effort it takes to make a phone call to when you're so busy and tired


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## Brian R. VanCise

Jade make the call and go see the specialist. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





Speaking of being tired, achey, fatigued that is me all to much lately.  Fortunately it is for a good reason in that I have roughly doubled my private lessons in the last month.  That is good but my body is having a hard time accomodating the extra work.  One thing that I have done to get over that extra fatigue is to try to drink a bottle of water at 8 pm'ish and then to try and get to bed by no later than 10:30 pm.  Since making this adjustment my body is feeling better and recovering easier.


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## girlbug2

Jade Tigress, hypothyroidism does not always mean weight gain but that is a common symptom. The most obvious symptom is the sluggishness and fatigue.


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## Xue Sheng

morph4me said:


> Don't listen to those guys, they just don't understand how much effort it takes to make a phone call to when you're so busy and tired


 
:lol:

I mean...true...so very true


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## Jade Tigress

morph4me said:


> Don't listen to those guys, they just don't understand how much effort it takes to make a phone call to when you're so busy and tired






Xue Sheng said:


> :lol:
> 
> I mean...true...so very true



LOL! You two be quiet! It's true! Stupid phone calls.

Seriously, for me, even a phone call takes quite a bit of effort. Damn, having to get in the shower in the morning is a chore for the sole fact that I have to stand up in it! For real. 





girlbug2 said:


> Jade Tigress, hypothyroidism does not always mean weight gain but that is a common symptom. The most obvious symptom is the sluggishness and fatigue.



Thanks.  I reason I ask is because I'm thin.


----------



## Kacey

From a friend of mine who had a knee replaced:

"I kept putting it off... I didn't want to do it... now I can't believe I waited so long - I feel so much better"

Quit putting it off - the doctor may not be able to help; on the other hand, it may be something easily treated - but you'll never know until you go!


----------



## kidswarrior

Kacey said:


> From a friend of mine who had a knee replaced:
> 
> "I kept putting it off... I didn't want to do it... now I can't believe I waited so long - I feel so much better"
> 
> Quit putting it off - the doctor may not be able to help; on the other hand, it may be something easily treated - but you'll never know until you go!


Yes! Let's keep harping on Pam till she does something.  This is fun. :boing1: J/K Pam, you know we're all just concerned about you.


----------



## Xue Sheng

Pam

Don't make me come over there and put you through basic Sanda training and xingyiquan santi shi standing practice. :mst:

You think your fatigued now, wait until after that. 

Please make time to see the people you need to see to find out whats going on.

XS


----------



## Brian R. VanCise

Xue Sheng said:


> Pam
> 
> Don't make me come over there and put you through basic Sanda training and xingyiquan santi shi standing practice. :mst:
> 
> You think your fatigued now, wait until after that.
> 
> Please make time to see the people you need to see to find out whats going on.
> 
> XS


 
Exactly or I may have to come over there and put you through a brutal IRT workout. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





Make the call!


----------



## Jade Tigress

Kacey said:


> From a friend of mine who had a knee replaced:
> 
> "I kept putting it off... I didn't want to do it... now I can't believe I waited so long - I feel so much better"
> 
> Quit putting it off - the doctor may not be able to help; on the other hand, it may be something easily treated - but you'll never know until you go!



Thank you Kacey. You are absolutely right. :asian:



kidswarrior said:


> Yes! Let's keep harping on Pam till she does something.  This is fun. :boing1: J/K Pam, you know we're all just concerned about you.





Xue Sheng said:


> Pam
> 
> Don't make me come over there and put you through basic Sanda training and xingyiquan santi shi standing practice. :mst:
> 
> You think your fatigued now, wait until after that.
> 
> Please make time to see the people you need to see to find out whats going on.
> 
> XS





Brian R. VanCise said:


> Exactly or I may have to come over there and put you through a brutal IRT workout.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Make the call!



Oh ****. I'm in real trouble now. :eye-popping:

Ya know, I was supposed to go to class Wednesday night, and our classes are HARD training. I was planning on going. I really was. But I was sooooo tired on the way home from work, and when I got home and sat down, I literally could not pull myself up out of the chair for class. That's the night I fell asleep at 7:30. And I forced myself to try and stay awake that long. Class starts at 7. I knew I'd never make it. 

At least this thread will now remind me to call next week. If I don't write something like this down I'll surely forget it. Now I just need to remember what I did with the referral the doc gave me. :asian: to all.


----------



## Xue Sheng

Jade Tigress said:


> Oh ****. I'm in real trouble now. :eye-popping:
> 
> At least this thread will now remind me to call next week. If I don't write something like this down I'll surely forget it. Now I just need to remember what I did with the referral the doc gave me. :asian: to all.


 
If you don't You see this

It is part of this

300 palm strikes per hand as for the rest...that all depends on whether or not you make the call :EG: :mst:

And this 30 minutes per side

And that is nothing compared to what Brian has in mind I am sure


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## kidswarrior

And if *X-S* and *Brian *haven't scared you into following through, check out the story  here


----------

