# Difference between Hung Gar lineages?



## XCELR8 (Dec 27, 2010)

I'm looking to join a MA school sometime in early 2011. I live in the Phoenix, Az area and there are a number of schools of all styles here but one that I've always been interested in is Hung Gar. There are two HG schools in the area that I'm aware of. One is run by a 4th gen. instructor under Lam Sai Wing. The other is run by a former student of Frank Yee (who is under the Tang Fung/WFH lineage) who gives semi-private lessons. Both are about the same distance from me. I know the typical answer is "go and have a look and see which one you like most", but assuming I have no training in Hung Gar and thus don't really know what to look for, both schools might look very similar to me.

So, I'm curious if there are any big differences in the overall style of Hung Gar under Lam Sai Wing's lineage vs. others (in this case, Tang Fung)? Are there differences in techniques between the two, or differences in philosophy, or pretty much teaching the exact same thing? 

I used to train in karate, and there are quite a few differences among Parker lineage instructors vs. say Tracy instructors, even though the Tracy's originally trained with Parker himself. I've also read of big differences among the Wing Chun instructors. So, just curious if this is as big of a thing in Hung Gar as in those arts.


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## clfsean (Dec 28, 2010)

I'm not a Hung Ga guy, but from what I've seen from the outside is LSW has a few more sets than TF. There may be some slight differences in application of techniques & such, but it shouldn't be to the point of changing things. 

I've always enjoyed watching Frank Yee & his senior students perform.


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## geezer (Dec 29, 2010)

Like Sean, I'm not a Hung Gar stylist, but regarding the benefits of watching a class.... don't underestimate yourself. The qualities of a good teacher will be apparent to you even if you are unfamiliar with the style. I spent too many years studying under a poor teacher who was a world renowned expert. Now I train with a man who, although very good, is not nearly as famous... yet I am learning more. So I personally place more emphasis on the quality and character of the Sifu.


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## TampaYKM (Dec 31, 2010)

Best bet is to see whether they teach the four pillar sets - Gung Gee Fook Fu Kuen (Taming the Tiger), Fu Hok Sheong Ying Kuen (Tiger and Crane), Sup Em Kuen (10 pattern) and Tid Sin Kuen (Iron wire) - if they have these, give it a shot. 
I realize there are lineages that do not teach these, but most do.
Also, look for low stance training, and conditioning (such as saam sing) - all signs of a good studio, in my opinion.


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## clfsean (Dec 31, 2010)

TampaYKM said:


> Best bet is to see whether they teach the four pillar sets - Gung Gee Fook Fu Kuen (Taming the Tiger), Fu Hok Sheong Ying Kuen (Tiger and Crane), Sup Em Kuen (10 pattern) and Tid Sin Kuen (Iron wire) - if they have these, give it a shot.
> I realize there are lineages that do not teach these, but most do.
> Also, look for low stance training, and conditioning (such as saam sing) - all signs of a good studio, in my opinion.


 
I think (could be mistaken) that the TF doesn't teach Sup Ying (5 Animal & 5 Element), instead teaches Ng Ying (5 animal) only.


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## TampaYKM (Jan 1, 2011)

Could be - there should also be a 5 elements form then. At least, that is how I was taught things were. As always, thanks for the information.
Way back when I was learning Hung Gar, my instructor (SiHing) was culling a lot of the 'filler' forms, and concentrating on the 4 pillars, plus Lau Gar Kuen as the first form. There was also discussion about how Gung Gee could be a whole system (of study/mastery) in itself. 
Our lineage was through Sifu Leongg in Seattle, but we had Sifu B. Kong (Siu Lum Pai) influence and some from Taiwan (names escape me after all these years).


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## clfsean (Jan 1, 2011)

TampaYKM said:


> Could be - there should also be a 5 elements form then. At least, that is how I was taught things were. As always, thanks for the information.
> Way back when I was learning Hung Gar, my instructor (SiHing) was culling a lot of the 'filler' forms, and concentrating on the 4 pillars, plus Lau Gar Kuen as the first form. There was also discussion about how Gung Gee could be a whole system (of study/mastery) in itself.
> Our lineage was through Sifu Leongg in Seattle, but we had Sifu B. Kong (Siu Lum Pai) influence and some from Taiwan (names escape me after all these years).


 
Yeah... If you came through Leong & Kong Sifus... that's LSW & they do the Sup Ying that's the 5 Animal & 5 Elements combined.


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## HG1 (Jan 21, 2011)

XCELR8 said:


> Both are about the same distance from me. I know the typical answer is "go and have a look and see which one you like most", but assuming I have no training in Hung Gar and thus don't really know what to look for, both schools might look very similar to me.
> 
> So, I'm curious if there are any big differences in the overall style of Hung Gar under Lam Sai Wing's lineage vs. others (in this case, Tang Fung)? Are there differences in techniques between the two, or differences in philosophy, or pretty much teaching the exact same thing?
> 
> I used to train in karate, and there are quite a few differences among Parker lineage instructors vs. say Tracy instructors, even though the Tracy's originally trained with Parker himself. I've also read of big differences among the Wing Chun instructors. So, just curious if this is as big of a thing in Hung Gar as in those arts.



I've been with Yee's Hung-Ga for awhile.  Of course there is a little bias but the differences between us is marginal.  I would place more importance on your impression of the instructor(s) than lineage line.


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## TenTigers (Feb 2, 2011)

TampaYKM said:


> Could be - there should also be a 5 elements form then. .


No, in the Tang Fong line, it is Ng Ying Kuen-Five Animals-BUT..it also contains the five elements. The difference is that in the Lam Sai-Wing version they expand on the five elements doing many repeated strikes of each element, so instead of five, there's like thirty.They also play the dragon section differently, combining more elements of tiet sien kuen into it, and slight different interpetations of the leopard and snake as well.
All in all, still very much alike.


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