# Question Concerning Seminars



## sealken (Apr 24, 2005)

I have never been to a seminar yet, but have been looking at trying one but was wondering do you learn alot at seminars as opposed to a normal school, I know it can also be up the certain person who goes to one if he/she wants to give there all or not and if the person or people running seminar gives there all also but if said person does give there all is there alot that can be learned in the weekend to even week that a seminar offers..


Thank you for any information.


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## dearnis.com (Apr 24, 2005)

Seminars are like anything else; you get out what you put in.  If you leave the ego at home, and go with a good training partner you will get your money's worth (depending on the instructor).


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## arnisador (Apr 24, 2005)

Yeah, if you open your mind you'll probably get something. But yes, some seminar instructors will give you more than others.

I go whenever I can!


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## sealken (Apr 24, 2005)

Thank you 2 for your information I had one quick other question on this could you give me some ideas on which teacher or teachers to look for that do give good seminars sorry for asking so much but just trying to get a good idea of what seminars to attend.


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## arnisador (Apr 24, 2005)

Where are you? Who is coming your way soon? Someone might be able to recommend one of them to you.


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## sealken (Apr 24, 2005)

Am in Memphis, TN but will not have any issue traveling to where ever as long as the teacher or teachers offer quality training during their seminars, more like a broad range question from your personal knowledge.



Thanks again for your help and information.


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## arnisador (Apr 24, 2005)

I'm partial to Tim Hartman, my instructor:
http://www.wmarnis.com/wmaaevents.html

I can also say that I've had good experiences with the FMA seminars of, for example, Jeff Chung (www.ntkali.org) and Jerson Tortal (http://www.dekititirsiasiradas.org); I have previously posted reviews for all three of these instructors here. There are many others, but these leap to my mind.


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## sealken (Apr 24, 2005)

Thank you so much for your information arnisador I will check them out.



Thanks again.


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## MJS (Apr 25, 2005)

sealken said:
			
		

> I have never been to a seminar yet, but have been looking at trying one but was wondering do you learn alot at seminars as opposed to a normal school, I know it can also be up the certain person who goes to one if he/she wants to give there all or not and if the person or people running seminar gives there all also but if said person does give there all is there alot that can be learned in the weekend to even week that a seminar offers..
> 
> 
> Thank you for any information.



If you have the chance to go to one, do it!  You'll have the chance to work with a wide assortment of people, as well as get a ton of knowledge.  The difference between a school and a camp/seminar, is that at a school, material will be given out a little at a time, whereas at a seminar, you'll get much info. all at once.  This is not a bad thing, but don't get discouraged if you find that you can't remember everything you were shown that day.  Chances are, you'll see something similar or the exact same thing at another event.

Like it was already said....go with an open mind, take notes, and most importantly, have fun!!! :ultracool 

Mike


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## sealken (Apr 25, 2005)

Thanks MJS for the information, now just to watch for some upcoming ones and sign up and hope to have fun.


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## dearnis.com (Apr 25, 2005)

I'll second the vote for Tim Hartman.  Also any Sayoc Kali instructors who may come through the area.  Feel free to PM me for some additional recs.


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## sealken (Apr 25, 2005)

Thanks dearnis I will PM you soon for more information.


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## pesilat (Apr 25, 2005)

sealken said:
			
		

> I have never been to a seminar yet, but have been looking at trying one but was wondering do you learn alot at seminars as opposed to a normal school, I know it can also be up the certain person who goes to one if he/she wants to give there all or not and if the person or people running seminar gives there all also but if said person does give there all is there alot that can be learned in the weekend to even week that a seminar offers..
> 
> 
> Thank you for any information.



There is no comparison between seminars and training at a school on a regular basis with an instructor. Seminars - by this term, I mean training sessions open to the public - are great supplemental training. They're good for getting an intro to a system or for getting exposure to a different perspective on the system you train in. And they're good for networking. They are good for some other things, too, but I'd say those are the big things they're good for.

If you're trying to learn a system by attending seminars, though, you're shortchanging yourself. When teaching a seminar, because it's open to the public, the instructor has to try to gauge the various levels of the attendees and cater to the middle ground or give different material to different groups based on their level. Also, there is some material that an instructor won't generally bring out in a public seminar - maybe because not enough people at the seminar have the foundation to learn it, maybe because it's high risk stuff to train and the liability issue is too touchy in an environment with a bunch of unknown factors, maybe for other reasons. For these reasons and more, it's difficult to achieve any depth of understanding in a system/art if you only train in it at seminars.

However, some seminars are what I would term workshops. They're either by invitation or you have to have attended prerequisite workshops or have a background in the material that the instructor can verify (i.e.: you're training with one of his students or one of his students will vouch for you). In a workshop setting, the instructor can lay all the groundwork to delve much deeper - it's basically a form of a "regular" class but the instructor can only come in every so often and the rest of the time you're expected to work on the material with other people from the workshops. This is still not as good as regular and frequent training with the instructor but you'll end up with more depth than at public seminars.

The best option for training is regular and frequent - at least once a week - training time with an instructor that you're comfortable training with and in a system that suits you and you enjoy learning. And when you supplement this with training outside of class - solo or with fellow students - and with seminars then you can get even more from both. The seminar training is improved because you're building a base with regular training and the regular training is improved because you're getting different perspectives on the material.

Where material overlaps, you gain more depth. Where it doesn't, you gain more breadth. But only attending seminars won't, generally, give you much depth.

Also, don't be discouraged if you don't learn much at a seminar - especially your first seminar. It can be overwhelming - and some instructors are more overwhelming than others. My advice - based on years and years of attending seminars - is to find one or two things that you really like and that really suit you (i.e.: things that seem to come naturally) at the seminar and retain those. Ask your partner to drill those 1 or 2 things with you during short breaks or after you've taken a quick lunch and have some down time before things pick back up. And, of course, return the favor by drilling some stuff that your partner wants to try to retain. Let everything aside from those 1 or 2 things kind of slide by - watch them, try to do them, but keep thinking and focusing on retaining those 1 or 2 things that you want to hold on to. If you try to retain it all, you'll likely come away with nothing but a headache. Take those 1 or 2 things and work them regularly after the seminar until you've got them solidly embedded in your memory. The next time you go to a seminar with that instructor, you will already have those 1 or 2 things and you can focus on retaining 1 or 2 other things. Over time, you'll find that you can retain the material easier because, often, you've seen it at a previous seminar. You couldn't retain it previously but you still saw and worked it some so when you see it again, it's not completely new.

This next bit of advice is difficult when you first start training - I don't know your background, you may have been training for years but never attended a seminar so I may be preaching to the choir here but it's bound to be good advice for someone reading this  Techniques are vehicles to learning and understanding the principles that underly the techniques. The principles are what make that technique work. Understanding the underlying principles will enable you, over time, to transcend that one single technique. You'll be able to apply the understanding of that principle to other techniques that use it - and, thus, be able to learn and understand that new technique quicker and better. Also, over time, you'll be able to determine if a new technique you see is valid or not. If it doesn't adhere to principles you know, then examine it closely - there may be a new principle to learn - and ask the instructor about what makes the technique work (i.e.: is it leverage, is it torque, is it momentum, etc. - what does the technique rely on to be functional). If you can't determine it and what the instructor tells you doesn't synch up with what you already understand about the principles he says that the technique relies on then you might want to put that technique into a "questionable" file for later examination, exploration, research. Or you might even want to scrap it completely but I wouldn't recommend that under most circumstances - especially if you see someone, like the instructor, apply the technique and make it work against a resisting opponent. If he, or someone else, can do it then there may be something your overlooking - or it may just be that that person can do it because of a specific attribute he/she has. Understanding the underlying principles can also help you answer questions when you start teaching. You will inevitably get asked questions that you've never even thought of before - if you understand the principles then you'll usually be able to provide a valid answer (it may not be the "best" answer and you may revise your answer later after further thought but it will likely be a valid possible answer because it's coming from an understanding of principles that are tried and true).

Anyway, I think I rambled quite a bit down a major tangent but hopefully it made some sense and you'll find some useful info in it 

Mike


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## dearnis.com (Apr 26, 2005)

> However, some seminars are what I would term workshops. They're either by invitation or you have to have attended prerequisite workshops or have a background in the material that the instructor can verify (i.e.: you're training with one of his students or one of his students will vouch for you). In a workshop setting, the instructor can lay all the groundwork to delve much deeper - it's basically a form of a "regular" class but the instructor can only come in every so often and the rest of the time you're expected to work on the material with other people from the workshops. This is still not as good as regular and frequent training with the instructor but you'll end up with more depth than at public seminars.



Great distinction Mike!!


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## pesilat (Apr 26, 2005)

dearnis.com said:
			
		

> Great distinction Mike!!



Thanks  I know some (maybe a lot of) people don't make a verbal distinction between those two types. That's why when someone says they're "seminar trained" my initial thought is, "OK. Probably not a lot of depth or connective tissue in the structure of their understanding." But sometimes I'm pleasantly surprised to find that I'm wrong - usually because when they say "seminar" they mean (in my personal terminology) "workshop."

Remote training programs (if they're well done) will use the workshop concept to get the practitioners hands on time with the instructor going through the curriculum. 

Mike


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