# Age / Injury correlation in Kenpo



## Michael Billings (Jan 8, 2004)

I will be doing a couple of polls over the next couple of weeks regarding martial artist, their current age, how long training in Kenpo (regardless of which system), and types of injuries. 

I will be looking at raw numbers so I appreciate your votes.  

** NOTE: This poll will only be available for 45 days.

Thanks,
-Michael


----------



## psi_radar (Jan 8, 2004)

34, five years in Kenpo, two broken big toes, Plantar Fasciitis in both feet, typical bumps and bruises. 

Edit: I wear mat shoes now, which take care of my feet problems. I generally get a lot more bruising as I get older. Ibuprofen is my friend.


----------



## Rick Wade (Jan 8, 2004)

As I get older the nagging injuries do seem to hang around longer.:sadsong:


----------



## Old Fat Kenpoka (Jan 8, 2004)

Reminds me of a kids song...

Head, shoulders, knees and toes...knees and toes...
Head, shoulders, knees and toes...
eyes and ears and mouth and nose...
Head shoulders, knees and toes...

Let's see, starting at the top...
Cuts to forehead, cheek, lips, nose.
Black eyes
Bloody nose (regularly)
Broken nose (multiple times)
Boxer's jaw
Chipped teeth (before the days of mouth guards)
Torn cartlidge and bone chip in neck (from dummying a technique)
Strained shoulder muscles (all of them)
Hyper-extended elbows
Cut knuckles
Tendon damage to right thumb from dummying a knife disarm in 1982
Dislocated fingers (all 8 of them at the second knuckle at one time or another)
Bruised Ribs
Broken vein in crotch where leg meets pelvis (I took a groin kick to the cup and the cup hit the vein at the joint.  My leg swelled up and turned blue and I was on crutches for a couple weeks)
Torn knee cartlidges (both knees, several times)
Torn ACL
Lots of shin bruises
Foot bruises
Broken and dislocated all of my toes.

Oh yeah, and athlete's foot!


----------



## Ceicei (Jan 8, 2004)

37 now.  Started American Kenpo at 18 yrs old, stayed off and on with it since then.  I had a broken nose from a tournament the following year (19 yrs old).  Last year, I had a hairline foot fracture, and badly bruised foot and shins.

- Ceicei


----------



## Shodan (Jan 8, 2004)

Currently 30....will be 31 at the end of the month.  Started Kenpo at age 13, have done that ever since plus 2 years solid of stick fighting.....now, still doing Kenpo and a bit of stick fighting.

  Most major injury was a torn ACL on my right knee- had to have surgery to repair/reconstruct it.  My shins are shot from so many times kicking and catching someone's knee, elbow, etc.  Have broken my little toes multiple times, bruises to knuckles hit with sticks, some neck trouble following a knock-out about 12 years ago......still gets stiff sometimes.  Sprained ankles while sparring.  Scar under chin where a guy caught me with his toenail on a kick, have had hyper-extended elbows a few times and some black eyes.

  :asian:  :karate:


----------



## Gotkenpo? (Jan 8, 2004)

20 years old, started about 8 months ago.  no injuries aside from a few bruises.


----------



## Michael Billings (Jan 8, 2004)

Please vote, and feel free to share a comment.  I plan on doing some data correlation when I get enough info, and will post the results.

Thanks,
-Michael:asian:


----------



## TerryC (Jan 8, 2004)

55 years old......27 when I began Kempo in the Philippines. Broke both insteps and big toes multiple times. Torn right ACL and surgery to fix that. Surgery to free an entrapped left ulnar nerve that had been literally driven into my elbow joint. Three broken ribs at one time. The straw that broke the camel's back (literally) was two collapsed vertebre (from undiagnosed osteoposis) while working on ground fighting with a Tang Su Do stylist in 1998. It took two years for that to heal.

Now-a-days no sparring, but lots of daily aches and pains in feet and knees.

Now that I've read my own post it seems maybe I should have been a better fighter!

Still wouldn't trade my years in Kempo for anything!


----------



## jfarnsworth (Jan 8, 2004)

I'm 29 for now without serious injury. My left shoulder is sore from being thrown on it during a wrestling match many years ago. 5 ribs that are seperated from my sternum from a JJ practice. Lastly my right knee is sore and achey from I don't know what.:shrug:


----------



## RCastillo (Jan 8, 2004)

I'm  48, been in the MA for 22 years, 11 of those in Kenpo.

No real injuries, just knees getting worse(football), pains from lifting.

Some minor accidents, 2 knee sprains,  one mild concussion, hyperextended elbow, cut above the eye.


----------



## Seig (Jan 8, 2004)

33, Been doing MA almost all of my life.  Been doing Kenpo since 1991.


----------



## Maltair (Jan 9, 2004)

Kempo since Sept 03' Besides the well earned aches from a good workout, I got a scratch across my face in a tourny, :xtrmshock I was worried it was gona get infected or something


----------



## MJS (Jan 9, 2004)

30 yrs old.  Have been doing Kenpo for 17yrs.  as well as BJJ and Arnis.  Injuries have ranged from minor jammed figers/toes, minor bumps/bruises, bloody nose, to the more serious leg injury while grappling.

Mike


----------



## RCastillo (Jan 9, 2004)

> _Originally posted by MJS _
> *30 yrs old.  Have been doing Kenpo for 17yrs.  as well as BJJ and Arnis.  Injuries have ranged from minor jammed figers/toes, minor bumps/bruises, bloody nose, to the more serious leg injury while grappling.
> 
> Mike *



That'll teach when grappling with your dates! Go with a background check first!


----------



## KenpoTess (Jan 9, 2004)

44.. training bout 8 yrs.. Incurred a shattered hand during my first class.. Multiple finger dislocations and breaks, broken toes and jammed digits. 
Cellulitis in my calf resulting from an opponent's kick ( that was worse than any broken limb I've ever had~!!)  (a week of In hospital IV therapy to fix that~!).

Level 3 torn hamstrings (2x)  (at least 6 other times tornlevel 2 ), 
Right now I'm contending with a horrendously painful elbow injury that's been with me now for over 3 months.. 
Many bruises.. scratches (amazing how those little buggers infect overnight~!)
black eyes, soft tissue throat injury from a massively strong football player tossing a 15Lb medicine ball straight at my throat during warmups.. (oops)

Yeah I keep going back for more 
though it would be probably better for me... had I any medical insurance.


----------



## KenpoGirl (Jan 9, 2004)

35 training 3.5 years.

Many many bruises and bumps no complaints for thost, I wall them my war wounds.
injuries to big toes at various times in sparring.
wrist sprains until they got stronger
various hyper extended knees untill I learned to kick better
2 yrs ago a torn ACL, was off a year plus for that one.

since then nothing major {knock on wood}

Dot


----------



## kkenpo (Jan 9, 2004)

Hi all, this is my first post. It's funny that I decided to reply to this post. Well here goes. I'm 29 till Aug, doing EPAK for about 4yrs. outside the normal bangs & dings not much else. Maybe if I train alot harder. :rofl:


----------



## Old Fat Kenpoka (Jan 9, 2004)

Comparing my injury list to everyone elses I can only conclude...

If I had had safety gear and a little more coordination in my youth, I'd have a lot less aches & pains now!


----------



## KenpoTess (Jan 9, 2004)

Funny thing is.. I had alot more aches and pains in my youth than I do now since I started training.. Least now I know why when I Do have an ache.. what it's from.. back then.. I would ache for no good reason..


----------



## Kenpomachine (Jan 9, 2004)

30.  4 years of training as a child and then 4 more. Only major injury was a heel cut with the mirror of the mat while doing long 3. Mainly bruises and jammed fingers. Once a black eye. 

Have gotten worse injuries practicing team sports...


----------



## Rick Wade (Jan 9, 2004)

Broke my nose on Christmas eve sparring.

Had great christmas pictures!:lol:


----------



## MJS (Jan 9, 2004)

> _Originally posted by RCastillo _
> *That'll teach when grappling with your dates! Go with a background check first! *



Mike:rofl:


----------



## Michael Billings (Jan 11, 2004)

July of this year will be my *25th year in Kenpo. *

Martial Arts over *35* years now, (and I am not counting the judo I did as a kid in the early 60's, but only the consistant time in Shotokan, TKD, and Kenpo).

*Injuries:*

*Shotokan* - Bone bruises (still have some of the lumps on the bones in my forearms and legs), a bloody nose or so.

*TKD* - Pulled muscles, bruises, and jammed fingers and toes.

*Kenpo* - Same as above, plus:
Broken Toes (now fused)
Cracked Ribs 
Broken Nose (can't count the times)
Torn hamstring
Stitches (19 or so) over the right eye
ACL Replacement (grappling in a sparring class circa 1987 or so)
Facet or neck injury - BJJ seminar at a Kenpo camp
Hyperextended elbow
Lumbar vertebra ouches
Black eyes
Broken fingers
Ankle rebuilt

I guess Texas used to have a reputation back in the 60's and 70's for Tournament fighters being a bit ... well, bloody.  Light contact to the body was 3" in, and 1-1/2" to the face.  My instructor and I were just talking about some of the great fighters we knew, back when.  This was before they invented hand gear and foot gear.

We definitly trained hard, but we did not train smart.  My much older body reminds me of that fact every day.

-Michael


----------



## Ceicei (Jan 11, 2004)

I didn't count in my injury list earlier that I hyperextended my left wrist twice this year from doing kenpo.  My wrist was already made weak 4-5 years ago from a work related accident causing the original hyperextension and bursitis.  It never fully healed even after treatment and its strength ranged between 75% to 90%.

- Ceicei


----------



## Eggman (Jan 12, 2004)

Well Im 32 with no broken bones from kenpo, knock on wood.  I did tear my hamstring last year(level 3) and had a sever hyperextension of the elbow(slight tear of the tendons) but other wise the same old creeks everyone else has, bloody nose, bruises, scratches, and aches.   Ive been training in kenpo since i was 18 with TKD before that.


----------



## molson (Jan 12, 2004)

I just turned 41 and can relate to all of the injuries above. I have disc problems, knee problem, hyperextended elbows, broken toes and fingers etc..... I can relate to the no gear sparring also...

 I was asked to play racket ball saturday after playing for several hours I can not get out of bed due to a swollen knee and stiff back. 20 years in the martial arts never gave me this much pain....

Jeff N.


----------



## sierra don (Jan 12, 2004)

48 here..........started Kenpo last June(2003) and so far I have had a broken left big toe, fractured left rib and my latest is injury to my left knee......not sure what I did to it.

The knee basically collapsed on me three weeks ago during some warm-up kicks, heard some loud cracking before falling to the floor with a whole lot of pain, thought I broke it.

sd


----------



## rmcrobertson (Jan 12, 2004)

When I started at 39 (yikes!), I was taught by an instructor in her forties who'd always had some physical limitations. She was very, very careful about teaching so that I could train for a long time, rather than a few years--and little lessons, like keep your hands lightly closed when you're sparring until at least green belt really seem to've paid off. I try to pass them on, especially to kids I teach--remembering Nick Nolte at the start of "North Dallas Forty." I mean, who wants to be Jackie Chan first thing in the morning? I'll bet it takes an hour and a half just to unkink that guy...

Of course, starting older has the signal advantage of starting after a lot of those wacky hormone levels have dropped to something reasonable.

I'd distinguish between "reasonable," and "unreasonable," injuries. Reasonable? Bruises, lumps, black eyes and fat lips. Those ugly-but-harmless knots you get on your shins when you clash with some other idiot, sparring. An occasional popped finger or toe, maybe an occasional dinged rib. 

Unreasonable? Ripped out joints. Concussions from stupid, aggressive roundhouse kicks. Torn-up rotator cuffs because some idiot couldn't be bothered to learn a take-down correctly, with some control. Or the long-term results of having your back stomped by some yahoo who couldn't learn control OR stances for some of the endings, like Dance of Death (reason no. fifteen hundred to learn the damn forms, by the way)--that sort of stuff.

It has been my experience that most scary injuries are caused by stupidity, or lazy training...the single best illustration of thiss I know appears when students WILL NOT keep their hands closed while blocking, especially downward blocks for some reason....saw a guy do Thrusting Salute that way, and when his ring finger broke, it bent back far enough that the skin ripped most of the way around the base of the finger...

I worked in hospitals for some ten years, and I never saw that before...


----------



## Old Fat Kenpoka (Jan 13, 2004)

Oh, I forgot one.  

In the days before mouthpieces...I cut my lower lip on my tooth thanks to a good punch.  Got a fat lip.  Because the lip was swollen, I would accidently bite it pretty often.  So the swelling didn't go down and a cyst formed inside the lip.  An ENT removed the cyst with a scalpel in a 5-minute procedure.


----------



## Rainman (Jan 18, 2004)

> _Originally posted by rmcrobertson _
> *When I started at 39 (yikes!), I was taught by an instructor in her forties who'd always had some physical limitations. She was very, very careful about teaching so that I could train for a long time, rather than a few years--and little lessons, like keep your hands lightly closed when you're sparring until at least green belt really seem to've paid off. I try to pass them on, especially to kids I teach--remembering Nick Nolte at the start of "North Dallas Forty." I mean, who wants to be Jackie Chan first thing in the morning? I'll bet it takes an hour and a half just to unkink that guy...
> 
> Of course, starting older has the signal advantage of starting after a lot of those wacky hormone levels have dropped to something reasonable.
> ...



Just tell you you are wrong when you are wrong... Okay.

Reasonable and unreasonable injuries are relative to the circumstance.   The zone is a place of extreme acceleration so when operating in such a place there are no guarantees of anything.   How far do you push it?   You have your ideas but you can't expect someone else from another school to share your ideas on what contact should be.   Train smart that is for sure, that is all that can be done when simulating combat.


----------



## rmcrobertson (Jan 18, 2004)

In other words, you agree wholeheartedly. OK, fair enough.

I can--and I daresay you'd agree--expect adults to manifest some common sense.

Or let me put it this way. In the pursuit of training for effective self-defense, of training so that one doesn't get really hurt in the event of an actual emergency, it would be best to avoid getting really hurt.

My point exactly; good to see the convergence.

Similarly, it seems as though we agree in separating accidents--the inevitable accessories to training or any other human activity--from the consequences of macho posturing and aggressive stupidity.

Thanks.


----------



## Rainman (Jan 22, 2004)

> _Originally posted by rmcrobertson _
> *In other words, you agree wholeheartedly. OK, fair enough.
> 
> I can--and I daresay you'd agree--expect adults to manifest some common sense.
> ...



Have to agree with you there- have not seen many people acting the fool though.   Cobra Kai types... nope just not much experience with that personality except when I tried to buy a new car.   

Point two:  The instructor should really watch when people are training and know when someone is in danger of being set up for a serious blow to land.   Instructors do have to bare some responsibility because they should know what is going to happen.  That being said, control will always be an issue between blackbelts.  Some schools just train differently so the person conducting class has to be aware and in the moment during a match or whatnot.   Gotta protect your people.


----------



## Zoran (Jan 26, 2004)

Started when I was 16 and will be 39 in a few weeks.

1.5 years EPAK
3 to 4 years in and out of TKD, Jujitsu, and tried a couple different Kenpo styles.
13 years in Kenpo from the Parker/McSweeney/Saviano lineage.

About 18 years out of 23 of actual training time.

Two sprained ankles and one wrist.
Usual jammed toes and fingers and hyper extended joints.
Shoulder injury.
Knee surgery (after a demo in 94) for meniscus tear and minor AC damage.
And the usual boo-boos that I only remember about when I try to get up on a cold morning.


----------



## Norma (Feb 9, 2004)

My son 4 1/2 years has been in karate for just about 1 year now, and has already started to get bruises to the feet. nothing major.

Norma


----------



## TheRustyOne (Feb 9, 2004)

I'm 19, and suffer from the usual bruises. good luck so far...*knock on wood*


----------



## KenpoTex (Feb 10, 2004)

I'm almost 22, been studying EPAK for almost 1 1/2 years, so far: 1 broken nose, 1 broken toe, countless jammed fingers and toes, and the usual assortment of bruises, dings, dents, and pulled muscles.


----------



## satans.barber (Feb 10, 2004)

I was 22 on Friday, have been in kenpo almost exactly 7 years now (whoa, that's like 1/3 of my life!).

Hope to be in it for a long time to come yet too!

Ian.


----------



## ellaminnowpea (Feb 10, 2004)

Well, nothing broken..jammed fingers, toes, instep (never try to be nice whilst performing a roundhouse kick..dumb) bruises galore, general soreness after a tough workout..No, no real injuries..

I've been studying for about 2.5 years.  

and, I test this weekend.

Yes, Kempo is my boyfriend


----------



## ellaminnowpea (Feb 10, 2004)

> _Originally posted by ellaminnowpea _
> *Well, nothing broken..jammed fingers, toes, instep (never try to be nice whilst performing a roundhouse kick..dumb) bruises galore, general soreness after a tough workout..No, no real injuries..
> 
> I've been studying for about 2.5 years.  Oh, I'm 34 yrs. old..forgot to add that in..
> ...


----------

