# What if somene grabs your leg ??



## Andy_46 (Oct 28, 2007)

Hi

Are there any techniques for getting out of someone grabbing your leg should for example you front kick them?, or is the idea to kick them so hard they wont be grabbing your leg anyway?

Andy


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## Drac (Oct 28, 2007)

Or to NEVER kick above the waist..Makes it a whole lot harder for them to grab it...Knees and Shins are great targets....


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## grydth (Oct 28, 2007)

Piss on 'em!


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## 14 Kempo (Oct 28, 2007)

My take, keep kicks low, chances are if they grab my leg, thier head is down ... they're going to get a nice downward elbow to the spine ... somewhere from the brain stem down to the lower back ... it isn't in a cage afterall.


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## newGuy12 (Oct 28, 2007)

Right.  Bend the knee if they have the foot.  You are now in punching range.  Have at it, and see how long they wish to continue holding your foot.

If it is self defense, then you do not use punches, you use more severe strikes.  If they wish to keep one (or both!) hands on the foot/lower leg, that is okay with me.




Robert


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## Sorros (Oct 28, 2007)

If you go to the ground bend your knees, and wrap your arms around there head. Kinda like a modified anaconda choke. 
Or start smashing there ears.


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## Big Don (Oct 28, 2007)

My Sifu says (usually after catching someone's kick) 





> If they can catch it, it wasn't fast enough.


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## MA-Caver (Oct 28, 2007)

I'd have to go with what Sorros and NewGuy12 said, basically use the leverage afforded by their grab to bend your knee and bring them close to you so you can use your fists, fingers, whatever. 
Your legs ARE your stongest muscles anywhere in the body... carrying 2/3rds of the body's weight in many upright positions, thus using the calf muscles to bring your opponent in before they twist and put YOU on the ground will at least turn that disadvantage back to your advantage. 
You have to of course be prepared for them to catch it... even if you didn't want them to and use that technique before they do anything harmful to you. It's a bad condition to have one of your primary weapons caught in your opponent's grasp. So you got three more to use before they do it any harm. 
Something to practice with I think.


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## CuongNhuka (Oct 28, 2007)

If they do grab your leg, comit your weight forward (towards where there hand/hands are), gravity will do the rest for you. Better hit while you do this, or block your face. Practice this first.


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## SKB (Oct 28, 2007)

Grab their face and start poking things!


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## tellner (Oct 28, 2007)

Same as my answer is to a whole lot of other things:

There's a bunch of different things I might do. The only way to know is to try it and find out.

"Your kick just wasn't fast enough" might be true. But it's not useful and doesn't answer the question. Besides, I've caught kicks that were going faster than my reaction speed. Sometimes it was luck. Most of the time it was better timing and appreciation of distance or knowing what they were going to do and waiting for it instead of trying to reach out and nab it out of mid-air.

"If they grab it they'll be bent over and in a bad position" might be true. It also might not. If they're not total bozos they won't make stupid mistakes like that. And even if they do your shot might not be the show stopper you think it's going to be. The early days of the Gracies' career was full of guys who thought they would stop them with a kick or an elbow on the shoot. 

If someone gets a hold of my leg it depends very much on what I was doing and what he was doing. I was kicking and he caught it I might lean in, grab him and either retrieve my leg or take us both to the ground. It's all a matter of how things go. If I can't do that, then I'll need to be prepared to go down, preferably on my terms instead of completely on his. 

If I let someone get into range and he's doing a wrestling takedown, then it's time to sprawl (or one of its variations).


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## newGuy12 (Oct 28, 2007)

SKB said:


> Grab their face and start poking things!



But not in competition, this is only for the self-defense!!! Hahahahaha!!!!!!


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## searcher (Oct 28, 2007)

What does your instructor say to do?  There are a multitude of ways to keep it from happening and with getting out.   If you watch the UFC and Pride you can see what I am saying.    It seems like everyone has a different way of doing it.


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## exile (Oct 28, 2007)

Drac said:


> Or to NEVER kick above the waist..Makes it a whole lot harder for them to grab it...Knees and Shins are great targets....



Personally, I like Drac's take on this. The issue is risk vs. benefit: yes, a good hard shot to the collarbone-and-up zone can do some righteous damage, but if you get grabbed in that postion, you're very close to being dead in the water, because you are now on one leg. Your attacker is on two. Your balance difficulties go a long way to taking your option set down to zero, particularly because if your attacker has any kind of experience at alland street attackers very often dohe's not just going to stand there holding onto your foot while gallantly allowing you the time necessary to work out and carry out your escape. He's going to jerk your trapped leg upward the instant he's made sure he's secured it, and you are going to be, instinctively, fighting to stay upright. But he has no balance problems at all at this point, and so a swift hard low kick to your crotch is going to be almost impossible to avoid. Now what? 

That's the kind of reason I think that Drac's take on this is overall the best way to go. I've been toldby people who _know_that over a lifetime, the poker players who win biggest are not the ones who take the major risks, pull outrageous bluff and so on; they're the steady percentage players who take the long view and try to minimize chance every time. If they were only playing other players like themselves, it wouldn't work. But since there are so few who really do that, it turns out to be the most successful strategy. I think the same goes for street defense.


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## Brian S (Oct 28, 2007)

Andy_46 said:


> Hi
> 
> Are there any techniques for getting out of someone grabbing your leg should for example you front kick them?, or is the idea to kick them so hard they wont be grabbing your leg anyway?
> 
> Andy


 
 You have to rely on your training, not something you read on the internet.


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## shesulsa (Oct 29, 2007)

It just depends.

Since this is the self defense forum, I'll give my opinion from that perspective.

There are a lot of things to consider - recoil is important to train for speed and strength.  Hopefully you can bring your leg back before grabbed but if not, you could pull it back with opponent into your ready fist, heel palm, pointy metal object  ... or you can commit your weight and follow your leg further into your opponent and stomp them down to the ground.  You could also (quickly) bring up your support leg and hook their ankle or knee while keeping your kicking leg extended - you both go down, so have a ground game plan.  

You also have to think about what your opponent is going to do - like ... attempt to bust your knee or break your leg - prepare for that ... you'll have to bend your knee and turn your hip inward pointing the knee downward.  This could put you in a compromising position, but yet your opponent will be closer - specifically and likely the head.   

There are many variations on a counter to a kicking leg grab, BUT ...

I like Drac's advice best - keep your self-defense kicks low, strong and well-placed.


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## Brother John (Oct 29, 2007)

Drac said:


> Or to NEVER kick above the waist..Makes it a whole lot harder for them to grab it...Knees and Shins are great targets....


 
*B  I  N  G  O!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*​Kicking someone in say....the head....is about as logical as punching them in the foot their standing on.
Unless their tying their shoe....then go ahead and kick away! (ya big brute)


Your Brother
John


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## tellner (Oct 29, 2007)

Of course there's always Capoeira. They kick to the head, but their feet are already nearby...


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## Brother John (Oct 29, 2007)

tellner said:


> Of course there's always Capoeira. They kick to the head, but their feet are already nearby...


 
...yeah.......
Capoeira is interesting, they accomplish some impressive feets. (pun intended) It's history and why it developed is interesting.
But don't get me started on the logic of leaping into a handstand or a cartwheel when confronted with a serious self-defense situation. 

I'd rather fight from the fetal position! 
(and if you leap to a handstand while in a real fight, you may end up in the fetal position anyway.....)

Your Brother
John


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## MJS (Oct 29, 2007)

Andy_46 said:


> Hi
> 
> Are there any techniques for getting out of someone grabbing your leg should for example you front kick them?, or is the idea to kick them so hard they wont be grabbing your leg anyway?
> 
> Andy


 
Well, for starters, I have to agree with Drac.  Not intending to turn this into another high kick thread, but and speaking for myself only, I prefer to keep my kicks low.  Less of a chance of it being grabbed if I kick to the shin or knee instead of the upper chest, head areas.

If the leg is grabbed, keep in mind that the other person isn't going to just stand there, holding your leg.  They're most likely going to dump you on the ground.  If you can, as someone else said, bend your leg and grab onto them, that is also an option.  Now they're within striking range and if you do go to the ground, they'll hopefully be going with you.  Of course, having some ground skills is important. 

If you're unable to grab them prior to being taken down, I suggest doing your best to fall properly and minimize injury to yourself.


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## Drac (Oct 29, 2007)

Brother John said:


> ...yeah.......
> Capoeira is interesting, they accomplish some impressive feets. (pun intended) It's history and why it developed is interesting.
> But don't get me started on the logic of leaping into a handstand or a cartwheel when confronted with a serious self-defense situation.
> 
> ...


 
Well said....


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## bydand (Oct 29, 2007)

Drac said:


> Or to NEVER kick above the waist..Makes it a whole lot harder for them to grab it...Knees and Shins are great targets....





14 Kempo said:


> My take, keep kicks low, chances are if they grab my leg, thier head is down ... they're going to get a nice downward elbow to the spine ... somewhere from the brain stem down to the lower back ... it isn't in a cage afterall.





SKB said:


> Grab their face and start poking things!



See the above for my take.  In my own words: Don't kick high enough to give them the chance, if they try to sweep, show them why it is a BAD idea.  If they do manage to grab a leg. it means their hands are too busy to protect things like eyes, lips, ears, etc...  before you laugh, hook a finger in a cheek and give a pull.  You will follow, or you'll never have chapped lips again, and it hard to continue a fight with half your face flapping in the breeze.  Sure you might get bit, but this is a SD situation, you ARE going to get bled on anyway so whatever dangers there is already having to be dealt with.


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## tellner (Oct 29, 2007)

Sorry to disagree, Drac and John, but I've known enough Capoeiristas who were damned good fighters. I'm not talking about the ones who want big shoulders and a dancer's physique to get chicks but guys who really do jam that way. It has more of a extensive recent history on T3h D34dly Str33t(tm) than 90% of the martial arts represented here. A good old Angoliero couples excellent tactical sense with evil-mindedness, superior footwork, and the ability to make strong attacks from most of the angles you can't imagine.


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## Brother John (Oct 29, 2007)

tellner said:


> Sorry to disagree, Drac and John, but I've known enough Capoeiristas who were damned good fighters. I'm not talking about the ones who want big shoulders and a dancer's physique to get chicks but guys who really do jam that way. It has more of a extensive recent history on T3h D34dly Str33t(tm) than 90% of the martial arts represented here. A good old Angoliero couples excellent tactical sense with evil-mindedness, superior footwork, and the ability to make strong attacks from most of the angles you can't imagine.


No need to be sorry bro!!  Too LITTLE disagreement kills a good chat! 

I've seen many Capoeiristas, most with some amazing skills to be sure! But I don't think that good self defense skills should require being so acrobatic.
I'm ALL FOR people studying/training in something for it's historical significance or heritage or......just because you like it and think it looks cool...etc. Whatever, to each their own.
BUT: If it's good combat ability, I'd place my bets on the man who spent his time working on good, sound efficient strategic skills...with his feet on the ground...
than on those who spent a good deal of their time on something that's 1/2 acrobatics and 1/2 fighting while shackled. ...at's just me...

Mind you, I'm not trying to put the Capoeiristas down by any means! I respect the skills and what it must have taken to get them down...
or up
or around...


Your Brother
John


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## tellner (Oct 29, 2007)

The old "Capoeira is the way it is because the slaves were shackled" myth is just that. A myth. It's hard to cut cane, sweep the floors or make salt if you're handcuffed. It was the fighting method of slaves, criminals, Maroon revolutionaries and the poor. That's why it was illegal and looked down on by polite society for so long. It's only recently that a couple strains of Capoeira entered the mainstream and became symbols of Brazilian nationalism. 

I'm not completely convinced by the "Angola vs. Regional" distinction. Like most cultural things the truth is somewhere in between for most people. But I will say that what's recognized as the older way of doing things relies more on deception and less on athleticism. You're never sure if he's playing it straight or gaming you. It also tends to stay closer to the ground and does less of the purely acrobatic.

If you look at a lot of the basic Capoeira movements you'll notice that when there's a foot up in the air the head is close to the ground and at least one arm is serving as a support. 

Anecdotes aren't statistics, but a couple should be instructive. Donn Draeger took the then world Heavyweight (or was it All Japan Heavyweight?) Judo Champion to Brazil. He got into a dustup with a Capoeirista, nobody special, just a poor guy who spent all day hauling around 100 pound sacks of rubber tree sap and spent his nights drinking and doing Capoeira. From what Chip Armstrong says the fight was over mercifully quickly. And the best Judo player in the world was hospitalized for weeks. Similarly, the first senior Gracie student to get defeated in Vale Tudo competition was knocked out by a Capoeirista called Mestre Hulk.

It's a different way of fighting. Like everything else it depends on how you do it and how you're taught. And all the usual boilerplate. Beyond that it's very effective and has had to stand up to a fierce Darwinian or Lamarckian struggle in very harsh conditions for a long time. A good Capoeirista is a very dangerous opponent.


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## bushidomartialarts (Oct 29, 2007)

On the Capoeira front, my understanding (from conversation & research, not from direct experience), is that it's much like real, old-school TaeKwonDo.  The fancy stuff is for practice, or when you're playing, or when your girlfriend is watching.

In conflict, it's taking that body that can kick with power while in a handstand, and using it to power a solid hip-level front kick, or headbutt, or to drive a machete or stick as far into your skull as possible.  Train hard, fight easy, right?

In terms of what to do if your leg is grabbed, my advice depends on their position.  If they had to bend over to get it, put pressure on the back of their head.  Robs their power and forces them to concentrate on staying upright.  Then stomp down to free your leg.  Wrestlers get out of single-leg takedown just like that allatime.

If they're upright, the best advice has already been given.  Bend your knee to reel yourself in and do something horrible to the face.  Once you're in close, stomp down just like in the above idea.


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## Rich Parsons (Oct 29, 2007)

newGuy12 said:


> Right. Bend the knee if they have the foot. You are now in punching range. Have at it, and see how long they wish to continue holding your foot.
> 
> If it is self defense, then you do not use punches, you use more severe strikes. If they wish to keep one (or both!) hands on the foot/lower leg, that is okay with me.
> 
> ...




This is good and what I have seen work and done. Also one can from this bent knee position put all your weight on the bent leg they have and you can stomp down to get free, to allow for running away. (* They may have friends *) I prefer low kicks myself, as mentioned by others.


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## Adept (Oct 29, 2007)

newGuy12 said:


> Right.  Bend the knee if they have the foot.  You are now in punching range.  Have at it, and see how long they wish to continue holding your foot.



I don't mean to sound judgemental, but I think the situations in which this would be good advise are limited.

If they've caught your leg, chances are they've got (momentarily at least) complete control. You weren't expecting to get caught, so you have to react. He was expecting to catch you, so he is already acting, throwing you to the ground, smashing your 'standing' knee with his own kick, hauling you backwards, etc.


My advice would be 1) don't kick above the waist and 2) practice having your kicks caught!


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## kidswarrior (Oct 29, 2007)

All great answers. I'll just add, whatever you plan as a follow up, _don't let them have the other one too_.

Edit: I assumed when posting the above that you meant as a shoot. If it's a kick I've thrown and he's able to grab my leg, I'd say I kicked too high (and why?, when there are so may good targets below the torso). So in that case, what Drac said.


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## tellner (Oct 30, 2007)

Adept said:


> If they've caught your leg, chances are they've got (momentarily at least) complete control. You weren't expecting to get caught, so you have to react. He was expecting to catch you, so he is already acting,



Yay! Give the man a cigar! Adept, you're absolutely right.


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## JadecloudAlchemist (Oct 30, 2007)

For me the person who has your leg is going to use either one hand or 2 hands to hold it or maybe wrap it under his arm. The second thing is where does he hold it at. There is a disadvantage to having your leg caught your opponent if skilled enough can easily upset your balance and if is a good grappler could use that to his advantage. However there is also advantages to you having your leg caught one of them is knowing your opponent arm is "tied up" and has only one other arm or no arms if he using both hands to hold your leg. I can see from using another kick to knock him off balance, closing the gap to allow for strikes to the face,if the opponent has his head down striking the base of the skull or wrapping his head for a choke if he shoots in. To me I have grabbed legs and had my leg grabbed and I have done different things each time. So IMO within your art practice having your leg grabbed and the techniques your taught and see what works for you. Then grabs someones leg and see what works for them. From there play with it to get a feel for leg grabs.


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## thardey (Oct 30, 2007)

If you're in Self-defense mode, then echo Drac, and all those who echoed him. The highest I could ever see myself kicking in a SD situation _might possibly_ be a kick to the floating rib, other than that, knees and muay-thai thigh kicks.

In sparring, however, sometimes I like to "bait" people into catching my kicks. If I see them thinking about grabbing it, I'll "float" a round kick out (which, IMO, are the easiest to catch), then recoil into a front kick position while lunging into their body. It gives you a great shot at their head, and it gets me used to the idea of fighting on one leg if I have to. (Of course, in sparring, I'll also throw heel kicks to the head for fun, something I would never do on the street.)


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## Xue Sheng (Oct 30, 2007)

I assume we are talking kicks being grabbed and I agree with Drac, keep kicks low

But to give an anwer if they do not twist into it and/or lock me I would hurt them. But then I tend to keep kicks low so if they have bent down to grab my leg... :EG:


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## newGuy12 (Oct 30, 2007)

thardey said:


> In sparring, however, sometimes I like to "bait" people into catching my kicks.



Low roundhouse kick to the groin --> NO, its a feint.

Here it comes again --> NO --> now its a hook kick to the head (head is bent down when opponent covers low to overcompensate!)

Have I written this so that everyone can see the technique?  The hook kick looks enough like a roundhouse kick in the beginning of the motion to pass.


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## Jimi (Oct 30, 2007)

I guess it would depend on how the kick was "Grabbed". If I laid a solid round kick into someones body and they caught it in a shoot wresting catch "A" ( arm over tugging it into their armpit, achilles lock set up) I would feel almost SOL. If I threw a hi round kick at the head and was caught in a catch "B" ( arm under tugging it into the shoulder, like shelving my foot ) I also would fell almost SOL as these catches can very likely lead to a quick takedown followed by a submission or break. I would be damn lucky not to be destroyed within a heart beat of getting grabbed ( kick caught). These two basic kick catches I described are most likely not going to put the catcher in an awkward position of leaning forward offering the head as a target if they know how to do these catches correctly. On the other hand, if someone was looking to catch any kick, especially if they are reaching out trying to catch the foot purely with the hand or hands, I would feel a bit more confident that I MAY be able to pop his top knot for grabbing at my foot. This is not to say I believe no-one can catch my kicks, nor does it mean I think if grabbed I am sure to get away, just expressing my opinon on the possiblity of getting away is more likely when someone grabbing at a kicking foot who does not kick catch using sound kick defenses. I also agree with Drac, low kicks below the pocket for SD. If you even kick at groin level, the hands can reach the foot more easily that when a kick has targeted a knee, shin, ankle etc... JMO. JIMI


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