# Pros and Cons of TSD Organizations



## Ryun Ma (May 4, 2010)

My dojang has been in and out off organizations over many many years. We have found many pros and cons to be both in and out of organizations. How many of your schools is apart of an organization or governing body? And what do they do for you? What are you required to do for them? And most importantly, what are the pros and cons of being in your situation(apart of or not apart of an organization)?


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## Master K (May 5, 2010)

You will probably see a laundry list of pros and cons.  Many can make arguments for both sides.  With that said, I think it really comes down to the school owners needs and wants.

I am a member of an organization.  I like the camaradarie along with the diversity of training with different instructors and school owners.  I enjoy the fact that the organization offers curriculum giudance.  The organization provides a framework with which you must fit into, but doesn't structure the curriculum for you.  So it allows you the personal freedom as the school owner or instructor to guide the students the way you would like.  It also doens't overly simplify things.  It avoids the traps of other organizations by not standardizing one-steps, three-steps, sparring combinations, etc.  Lastly, it's always fun to get together at organizational seminars.

The only downside is that sometimes I get a little too busy with volunteer work for the organization.

Respectfully,
K


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## OldKarateGuy (Jun 3, 2010)

Again, I'm late to comment. My school belongs to GM Shin's WTSDA. I live in a small town now, and there are only - I think - two martial arts schools in town that have national or international affiliations. The rest are independent. Before moving here, I trained in Shotokan at a JKA affiliate school. To me, I would never belong to a school that did not have some fairly mainstream organizational ties. 

Here's why:
Some even and widespread standards for promotion. Hopefully, no ranks for sale, if you know what I mean. 
Students can take their rank and go other places. Even if there is no local school where they land, most of the larger and more reputable organizations will meet you half-way if you have a rank from another genuine group.  But a ranking from an independent school often is meaningless. 
Opportunity to train with high-ranking teachers, often from the old country.
Large, national events, with consistent judging and rules.
Less of a tendency for the teacher's bad habits and idiosyncrasies - we all have them - from becoming incorporated into the syllabus, because the teacher and the school are not isolated.

I could go on, but that covers most of it. Not trying to put down independent schools, but we should admit that some independent schools lack standards, and give a bad name to the others. I am especially cautious about the local guy who says, in effect, "I took the best from shotokan, aikido, judo and TKD, and created my own style." Such a fellow is rating his own ability ahead of styles and groups with many years of experience and many great practitioners.  

We pay a relatively small fee to the parent organization, for registrations, ranks, events and the like. It's a good trade-off to me. The students benefit most of all.


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## MBuzzy (Jun 4, 2010)

I could talk about this for hours!  

The biggest things that I see are support and standardization.  It can be good or bad, depends on your school.  I like having the higher level masters and resources to go get different perspectives and learn new things.

But I don't like the fact that there is a standardized curriculum...


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## EMST930 (Jun 29, 2010)

MBuzzy said:


> I could talk about this for hours!
> 
> The biggest things that I see are support and standardization.  It can be good or bad, depends on your school.  I like having the higher level masters and resources to go get different perspectives and learn new things.
> 
> But I don't like the fact that there is a standardized curriculum...



I think standardized curriculum is okay as long as instructors have the ability to add to it.  For instance, we have standardized one-steps that cover defenses against basic hand and foot attacks that reinforce fighting principles, but instructors are encouraged to develop their own additional one-steps.  It's an important concept that the Art is not limited to just the creativity and preferences of the people that came before you.

Standardized forms, one-steps, kicking/fighting drills allow us to get together and practice in a disciplined manner, but is just the tip of the iceberg.  Schools differ in how they approach advanced jump kicking, trapping/sweeping, knife defense, weapons, etc.


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## rick_tsdmdk (Jun 30, 2010)

Organizations are fine if they are fraternal - offering guidnace and assistance.

They run into problems when they become overbearing and try to "standardize" everything.  This is a philosophy that works great in a McDonalds restaurant, but is useless and non-productive in a martial ART environment.


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## tbma_mark (Jul 4, 2010)

Most organizations end up being too political and over bearing. In the end they charge mega bucks to tell you how to think, and what you can and can't do. I've heard of some organizations that charge for the membership, charge for their syllabus, charge for their tests, charge for your certificates, charge for your new belt, charge for this, charge for that, on and on and on. I know somethings you have to charge for, but some charge for too much. Then they say you have to teach this, and teach it this way. 

Like Rick said, an organization that give guidelines and contacts is better than one that is over powering.  The school I teach for belongs to an organization that has more guidelines, assistance and contacts.


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## Makalakumu (Jul 4, 2010)

I prefer to maintain close relationships with various organizations, but not actually be part of them.  This gives me the freedom to grow my art the way I want and gives me some personal checks points with people whom I respect and are willing to give advice.  

Standardization is okay as long as the material that is standardized is quality.  If it's not, it's a waste of time, IMO.  

As far as rank is concerned, even within the organization, different teachers produce students who differ (sometimes wildly) in terms of ability.  There's no guarantee that ability can ever be standardized because no organization is willing to legislate and police it's members to the degree where that would be possible.  

I wouldn't want to train in that kind of organization unless I was going to learn something very specific, like marksmanship or archery.


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