# State of the Art



## JWLuiza (Oct 20, 2006)

What are the burning questions you have regarding our art?   What issues keep you up at night?

I know for upnorthkyosa it was bunkai and the japan/okinawa connection.

What about Master Penfil?  The other luminary Tang Soo Do-ists?

I'll share my .02$ once I've found em 

John


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## MBuzzy (Oct 20, 2006)

Though I am by no means luminary....I also continuously question the bunkai which are sometimes hidden in our Hyung.  

I also deal with methods of instruction....teaching methods based solely  on your belt versus knowledge level and capability to learn.

Lastly, the separation between the Soo Bahk Do/Moo Duk Kwan Federation and the various Tang Soo Do Federations and associations.


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## EmperorOfKentukki (Oct 20, 2006)

This thread also exist on Warrior Scholar.  I already posted there....but I thought I'd bring it over to this board as well:


Very few TSD MDK issues remain.   Today, the one great unresolved mystery is authenticity of the Sorim Jang Kwon Hyung.  While versions exist, none have been widely accepted as authentic.   As more time passes, particularly with Hwang Kee's passing, the chances of this form being demonstrated publicly and a sufficient number of respected teachers to agree on its authenticity grows less likely.     Most of the other areas that interested the deeper researchers have been resolved.  The Tae Geuk Kwon form was identified as the Yang Style in 88 forms.  The Dahm Doi forms were identified as Shaolin Tan Tui (Springing Legs).  The origin of how the 'karate' forms became part of the MDK curriculum was soundly resolved when Hwang Kee himself admitted he learned them from studying Japanese books on the Okinawan art.  The inclusion of forms not normally found in the Shotokan variations that eventually became todays TKD was resolved when more history was learned about how the MDK absorbed many Masters from other arts and style, to include rare forms (such as Eeshipsabu, Chin Te, and Sang Keuk Kwan).  Many coming from associations Hwang Kee made with well connected figures such as Kim Ki Whang.   

As to and identity, for TSD it used to be the basic accepted 9 Hyung (3 Kicho, 5 Pyong Ahn, and the Bal Sae Hyung) with their MDK characteristics of the Hugul Jaseh (the back stance with a very slightly raised heel of the front foot), the waist rotation to generate power in striking and blocking, and the full hip extension on all kicks.   Today, many of the forms are being left behind in favor of more eclectic and even modern forms.   So what is called TSD today is actually extremely varied.   Much as what happenned to Okinawan Karate after it migrated to Japan (with a variety of Ryu of Karate with very different curriculum of forms) popping up in a relative short time.  Competition also has had an impact upon TSD and how it executed.   The term 'TSD Play' entered the vernacular for the first time in the 1980's as a means to describe modern point sparring practices (much as it already had among the TKD practitioner a decade before as they moved more toward sport and away from their origin as a personal self defense practice).  

Today....it is difficult to say what is and what is not a TSD school.   The criteria still seems to be to apply the old MDK curriculum as the ruler to gauge how far a school has moved away.  So called purist holding fast to the old curriculum and developing an almost snobbish attitude toward any school adopting different practices.

In contrast and comparison with the sweeping changes within the MDK itself, with its move to become the SBD MDK with its array of new forms and training drills, with its changing of it basic movements....makes claiming to be a school teaching the pure TSD MDK seem kind of rediculous.

Perhaps the best way to view TSD today, the most wise and beneficial position for the future is to see TSD as no longer a specifically Korean art.  Even more so...perhaps it has become so adopted, adapted and developed as to become the ownership of its new countries.   Perhaps we are moving now to the stage where TSD is an American martial art.   We need to ponder this...to consider it in its depth and meaning.  Because the truth is....TSD was not originally a Korean Martial Art....just as Karate was not originally a Japanese Martial art.....just as To Te was not originally a Chinese Martial Art...just as the 18 Lohan Palms of Shaolin were the invention of not a Chinese Master....but a teacher of Buddhist meditation from India.

After a generation in a new land.........is not the next generation of that land and not the land of its parents?

These are the things that 'keep me up at night' in contemplation of Tang Soo Do....and where it is going.

John Hancock


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## JWLuiza (Oct 22, 2006)

MBuzzy said:


> Though I am by no means luminary....I also continuously question the bunkai which are sometimes hidden in our Hyung.
> 
> I also deal with methods of instruction....teaching methods based solely  on your belt versus knowledge level and capability to learn.
> 
> Lastly, the separation between the Soo Bahk Do/Moo Duk Kwan Federation and the various Tang Soo Do Federations and associations.



There are some great articles on instruction over at www.24fightingchickens.com  Rob is very impressive of his knowledge of feedback practices.  

Bunkai training is interesting.  My school trains kata more as a fold dance than a training excercise... More about the psychology and improvement of body mechanics.  Our bunkai training is non-existent, but some of us are going out and bringing it back.

For me, the seperation of my school from the MDK was so ancient, that it is a non-issue except as I look for my TSD cousins...


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## JWLuiza (Oct 22, 2006)

EmperorOfKentukki said:


> This thread also exist on Warrior Scholar.  I already posted there....but I thought I'd bring it over to this board as well:
> 
> 
> SNIPPED FOR SPACE



I think that post should be stickied to the top of all TSD discussion boards as a platform for further discussion.  Thanks for such an illuminating post.  I hope to one day train with you and pick your brain.


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