# who studied



## tshadowchaser (Oct 21, 2007)

Which of our posters actualy studied under Ed Parker and for how long


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## Rich_Hale (Oct 21, 2007)

tshadowchaser said:


> Which of our posters actualy studied under Ed Parker and for how long


 
Well, I can tell you for a fact that Doc did because I saw him there.

This should be an . . . interesting post. :erg:


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## tshadowchaser (Oct 22, 2007)

I was hopeing there where more that had


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## Big Don (Oct 22, 2007)

Frank Trejo and Doc Chapel are both users and both trained with Mr Parker.


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## Kembudo-Kai Kempoka (Oct 22, 2007)

tshadowchaser said:


> Which of our posters actualy studied under Ed Parker and for how long


 
I posted something on this topic on another site recently. The ambiguity of "studied" is cleaned up a little with the modifier "how long", but even that leaves room for "creative interpretation". 

After Mr. Parker left us, it became envogue to be able to say "student of Ed Parker." Any ways the truth could be convoluted to allow this phrase to enter ones marketing blurb got explored...advertising lingo is curious, and ambiguity allows room for claims, without claims.

"In a recent study, no over-the-counter pain reliever was found to be more effective at relieving pain than Tylenol". That's true: They were all equally effective...reduced subjective complaints of discomfort by matching percentages, wether Tylenol, ibuprofen, ketoprofen, aspirin, whatever. A claim that's true, but sounds grander than it is.

"Studied under Ed Parker over the course of 15 years" can be true if one were a direct student of his, 3 times a week for 12 hours a day for fifteen years, or merely attended a seminar once a year for fifteen years. "Nth-degree black belt certificate signed by Ed Parker"...well, as the President of the IKKA, he signed a lot of them.

Lots of guys went this route. And "those guys" are often known for who and what they are. Then there was the opposites backlash. Some guys who had some middlin time with him downplay it, so as not to be construed as one of "those guys". It'll be fun to see who stands up for what.

D.


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## Doc (Oct 22, 2007)

That was you Rich?  There was this young handsome guy that was always over at Parker's house, but I had no idea ....


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## MattJ (Oct 23, 2007)

I did two seminars with Mr. Parker, if that counts for anything. Oddly enough, he did NOT award me a 9th or 10th degree. Who should I take this up with now? :uhyeah:


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## Rich_Hale (Oct 23, 2007)

Doc said:


> That was you Rich?  There was this young handsome guy that was always over at Parker's house, but I had no idea ....


 
Young . . . yes, but handsome? . . . Gee I'm sorry Doc, I had no idea your eyesight was failing so long ago.  But if it wasnt for failing eyesight I may have never gotten Kathie to marry me, so I guess it can be a good thing.

Now on a serious note, Dave has a point in that as President of the IKKA Mr. Parker's signature is on the left side of every certificate. You could ask how many people have a certificate with Mr. Parker's signature on the right side - above the instructors line, but Mr. Parker, on occasion, took it upon himself to promote those he thought worthy of a promotion even if they had never shared any mat time with him.

Im afraid this question will never be adequately answered in a forum.


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## Doc (Oct 24, 2007)

Rich_Hale said:


> Young . . . yes, but handsome? . . . Gee I'm sorry Doc, I had no idea your eyesight was failing so long ago.  But if it wasnt for failing eyesight I may have never gotten Kathie to marry me, so I guess it can be a good thing.
> 
> Now on a serious note, Dave has a point in that as President of the IKKA Mr. Parker's signature is on the left side of every certificate. You could ask how many people have a certificate with Mr. Parker's signature on the right side - above the instructors line, but Mr. Parker, on occasion, took it upon himself to promote those he thought worthy of a promotion even if they had never shared any mat time with him.
> 
> Im afraid this question will never be adequately answered in a forum.


Nor should it really be that important. Parker did what he wanted, when he wanted, with whom he wanted, for his own reasons, and answered to no one. That was his priviledge, as President, Chief Instructor, and Grandmaster of his own systems. I'm just glad he liked me.


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## Rich_Hale (Oct 24, 2007)

Doc said:


> Nor should it really be that important. Parker did what he wanted, when he wanted, with whom he wanted, for his own reasons, and answered to no one. That was his priviledge, as President, Chief Instructor, and Grandmaster of his own systems. I'm just glad he liked me.


 
I'm glad he like you too Ron, I'm just especially glad he like me better.


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## Doc (Oct 24, 2007)

Rich_Hale said:


> I'm glad he like you too Ron, I'm just especially glad he like me better.



But I was there first!!!! IT'S NOT FAIR.


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## Big Don (Oct 24, 2007)

Rich_Hale said:


> I'm glad he like you too Ron, I'm just especially glad he like me better.





Doc said:


> But I was there first!!!! IT'S NOT FAIR.


I'm loving the Smothers Brothers routine.


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## Doc (Oct 24, 2007)

Big Don said:


> I'm loving the Smothers Brothers routine.



I'm the oldest and you will treat me with respect and act like an adult, or I'll throw a fit. So there.


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## Doc (Oct 25, 2007)

tshadowchaser said:


> Which of our posters actualy studied under Ed Parker and for how long


For me the "how long: question is; 1963 until he passed without interruption. Frank Trejo and Larry Tatum made black at the same time around 74. Rich Hale of course was a ranked student, and so was Dennis Conatser, but it seems only Dennis, Rich, and myself post regularly (notice the word REGULARLY) here, and on KenpoTalk. I say ranked because last time I checked, EVRYBODY studied directly with Parker.


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## Rich_Hale (Oct 25, 2007)

Doc said:


> But I was there first!!!! IT'S NOT FAIR.


 
I'm sorry Doc, you're right. You were there first are indeed my senior, a fact which is proven out in some of the early Kenpo cave drawings. 

But, with all due respect, if life were fair I wouldn't be married to a woman half my age who makes twice my money and you would still have hair . . . sir.

_Attached photo of Dave, Doc and Rich was recently taken at Daves Kenpo Ohana in Santa Rosa, CA._


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## Kembudo-Kai Kempoka (Oct 25, 2007)

:lfao:

I will be amazed if he lets you live after that, Rich. Although, he is among the first to refer to himself as one of the kenpo dinosaurs.

Note to self: Be careful with pictures around Rich.

Dave


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## IWishToLearn (Oct 25, 2007)

Doc said:


> I'm the oldest and you will treat me with respect and act like an adult, or I'll throw a fit. So there.



Oh my god I spat pepsi through my nose on that one. And Doc - for the record - I went and found some Coke II - and it does NOT taste like Pepsi. Course it could be cause it been expired for a coupl'a years. Heh.


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## IWishToLearn (Oct 25, 2007)

Rich_Hale said:


> I'm sorry Doc, you're right. You were there first are indeed my senior, a fact which is proven out in some of the early Kenpo cave drawings.
> 
> But, with all due respect, if life were fair I wouldn't be married to a woman half my age who makes twice my money and you would still have hair . . . sir.
> 
> _Attached photo of Dave, Doc and Rich was recently taken at Daves Kenpo Ohana in Santa Rosa, CA._


Lord. Points for that one.


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## Kembudo-Kai Kempoka (Oct 25, 2007)

tshadowchaser said:


> I was hopeing there where more that had


 
I had about 1.5 years worth of "discussions" with him over a 2 year period (breaks for travelling to Europe for fun, and a limited residency program I was attending at the time). I had heard rumors of people coming to the house, ringing the doorbell, and asking for rank, or other such silliness, so I avoided the issue with him, and just worked on material and process models. 

In dialoguing with guys like Doc, Rich, and his son, the rumors were apparently true; many would assume that the mecca trip to the house alone qualified them for a stripe or two on their belts. And there were other channels used by clout and rank seekers. So there are apparently dozens of folks out there who make dubious claims as to their association with Mr. P, time spent, rank granted, etc. A famous one has often stated that he and his small group were the very last and only to train in private/semi-private at the house. One of Mr. P's kin made the observation, "He's correct. They were the last and only people at the house...in that time slot, on that evening". I thought that was a wry observation, and very telling about how things got twisted for effect.

So, since my exposure was minimal, and focused more on researching the mechanisms behind the clock than the clock itself, I refer to my time with him as "discussions". Why? Because I don't want to be one of those guys. I went for love of the art and awe of the man and what he had accomplished (yes, I was an ogle-eyed hero worshipper). I didn't go hunting rank or clout, though I was deeply honored and downright prideful that he would have anything to do with an imp like me.

Student? Nah. Just basics and -isms. I was supposed to start in earnest re-learning the system from him from the ground up on my return from Belgium, but that was too late. For that, you have to look to the oldsters like Doc, and the soon-to-be-extinct Rich Hale.

D.


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## Doc (Oct 26, 2007)

Rich_Hale said:


> I'm sorry Doc, you're right. You were there first are indeed my senior, a fact which is proven out in some of the early Kenpo cave drawings.
> 
> But, with all due respect, if life were fair I wouldn't be married to a woman half my age who makes twice my money and you would still have hair . . . sir.


Yeah I always wondered how you pulled that off. She's a jewel all right, but you know you can't keep her drugged forever. Besides stuff like that is against the law. Repeat after me; "These are not the droids you're looking for."

I'm not a dinosaur, I'm an ancient. Dinosaurs are extinct, and I'm still here.


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## Kembudo-Kai Kempoka (Oct 26, 2007)

Doc said:


> I'm not a dinosaur, I'm an ancient. Dinosaurs are extinct, and I'm still here.


 
Dinosaur denial?


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## tshadowchaser (Oct 27, 2007)

I am happy to see that a few of the old timers are on this forum  and post when they have information to give

I can say that I do not feel I ever studied with Mr. Parker. Yes I did go to the school once while I was studying but I do not consider one visit to be enough to qualify my as syudying under him. I also had the great pleasure of meeting him a few times at the internationals but that is not studying either. 
 What i learned indirectly from him through his students and their students also dose not qualify me as being "HIS" student but only a member of his organisation at the time he was alive


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## Goldendragon7 (Oct 28, 2007)

tshadowchaser said:


> Which of our posters actualy studied under Ed Parker and for how long




I did.  For 12 straight years.

:ultracool


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## Doc (Oct 28, 2007)

Goldendragon7 said:


> I did.  For 12 straight years.
> 
> :ultracool



More than just about anybody else. Many called themselves "students' and saw Parker rarely on a one-to-one basis for real lessons. Dennis was/is a good businesman and Parker recognized his intelligence, and was there constantly one-on-one. More so than any other individual I ever saw over that period. Ed Parker nicknamed Dennis affectionately an "information pack rat." He would come for a lesson, and soak up all he could physically, intellectually, and materially, take it home digest and stash it and come back for more almost immediately. There isn't anyone I know smarter about that aspect of Parker's teaching than Dennis "Pack Rat" Conatser. (and he knows where all the good BarBQ spots are too!)


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## diamondbar1971 (Nov 10, 2007)

I stated on an earlier post, that I was an Ed Parker Black Belt; I do have a Kenpo Black Belt; did Ed Parker sign it: you bet; did he advance me and
sign on the right side as instructor...no he did not. I am a Parker Kenpo
3rd generation Black Belt, by Sonny Reyes, under James Ibrao. I also
have a 1st generation Black Belt in LimaLama by Tino Tuiolosega and a
1st generation Black Belt by James Woo..I did get to study with Parker
at his home and at the studio. Mr. Parker taught some of the LimaLama
students his style of Kenpo as well as some of Mr. woo's students and a
lot of us ended up at the Woo Academy downtown for one reason or
another...some personal and some political and me, just because Tino
Tuiolosega would travel back and forth to the islands. I have some very
good memories from that era. l did get to meet Bob Wall about 40 years 
ago. Ed Parker, Tino Tuiolosega, another student and myself were going
over to Westminister, to the LimaLama studio and on the way we went
into this studio in Garden Grove to watch some students work out, and
Bob Wall was there. I recently got an e-mail from Bob inviting me to join
WorldBlackBelt. Its a good site and has a lot of famous high ranking belts
just like you guys on here.....so do i still consider myself a Parker Black Belt,,,
yes I do....because Parker taught and promoted and the ones that learned
and advanced under these instructors are still Parker Black Belts and so on
down the line....common sense dictates that somewhere along the line,
yes, there has to be a cutoff, because at some point you are so far down
in the family tree (Generation) that you are not even close to the original
teachings, but I don't know just how or who would be the judge of that.
Its a whole new topic and most likely would be a hot one with a lot of
no way jose, etc......but this is only my opinion and I worked just as hard
as the rest of you, to achieve what little I have achieved..i have never
advanced past 4th degree Black Belt in any style but I sure had fun when
I was younger and met some very famous people and am a part of history
and that I guess is better than having done nothing at all.


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## Doc (Nov 10, 2007)

diamondbar1971 said:


> I stated on an earlier post, that I was an Ed Parker Black Belt; I do have a Kenpo Black Belt; did Ed Parker sign it: you bet; did he advance me and
> sign on the right side as instructor...no he did not. I am a Parker Kenpo
> 3rd generation Black Belt, by Sonny Reyes, under James Ibrao. I also
> have a 1st generation Black Belt in LimaLama by Tino Tuiolosega and a
> ...



Sounds to me like your creds are as good, or better than a whole bunch of know-it-all people banging on their chest. Welcome to Martial Talk - Kenpo Section.


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## diamondbar1971 (Nov 11, 2007)

Thank You,
Its an honor to have someone of your stature to send out "kudos," and at the
same time realize that I in no way told a fib or tried to build myself up in anyway whatsoever...it is, what it is, and that is, all it is.....my god, now I
have gotten myself, confused...if you can figure that one out, let me know....
again, thanks for understanding my reasoning on my belt, it does mean very
much to me, along with the others, as some of them that signed them are no
longer with us and one, Tino Tuiolosega, has suffered another stroke and can
no longer teach. (another great loss to the MA World) His son Rudy was
advanced to 10th degree in 2004 by His Father and is now in charge of LImaLama, and I speak to him about once a month or so....i guess its true,
the tides of time, take their toll on all of us, sooner or later...again thanx


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## Kembudo-Kai Kempoka (Nov 11, 2007)

diamondbar1971 said:


> Thank You,
> Its an honor to have someone of your stature to send out "kudos," and at the
> same time realize that I in no way told a fib or tried to build myself up in anyway whatsoever...it is, what it is, and that is, all it is.....my god, now I
> have gotten myself, confused...if you can figure that one out, let me know....
> ...


 
It's good to have an old dog on the boards. Welcome.


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## Doc (Nov 12, 2007)

diamondbar1971 said:


> Thank You,
> Its an honor to have someone of your stature to send out "kudos," and at the
> same time realize that I in no way told a fib or tried to build myself up in anyway whatsoever...it is, what it is, and that is, all it is.....my god, now I
> have gotten myself, confused...if you can figure that one out, let me know....
> ...



Tell Rudy I said Hello. Haven't seen him in years. Been a few since I've seen Tino as well.


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## Doc (Nov 12, 2007)

Kembudo-Kai Kempoka said:


> It's good to have an old dog on the boards. Welcome.



Who you calling "old,"   -   Dog!


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## diamondbar1971 (Nov 13, 2007)

Hey, Doc, I sure will tell Rudy hi for you....I'm not sure if very many people in The MA community are aware, but Tino has lost the ability to speak, due to the stroke; his mind and memory are still sharp and he tends to get very
emotional when he sees or hears one of the old students...I am so fortunate  to be one of the very few, that got to learn from this great master


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## Carol (Nov 13, 2007)

Hey Diamondbar, welcome to Martial Talk!  :asian:

Something I was curious about...what kind of reach does Lima-Lama have nowadays?  It always seemed like a very interesting system, but not really well known outside of Hawaii or SoCal.


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## Doc (Nov 13, 2007)

diamondbar1971 said:


> Hey, Doc, I sure will tell Rudy hi for you....I'm not sure if very many people in The MA community are aware, but Tino has lost the ability to speak, due to the stroke; his mind and memory are still sharp and he tends to get very
> emotional when he sees or hears one of the old students...I am so fortunate  to be one of the very few, that got to learn from this great master



Yeah I know. He's been that way awhile now. Please give him my best regards.


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## Journey (Nov 28, 2007)

If three seminars and an extended Black Belt class count. Very enlighting.


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## Goldendragon7 (Dec 17, 2007)

Doc said:


> That was you Rich?  There was this young handsome guy that was always over at Parker's house, but I had no idea ....



Oh geeze.... come on now....... young maybe..... handsome..... are you sic?


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## Doc (Dec 17, 2007)

Goldendragon7 said:


> Oh geeze.... come on now....... young maybe..... handsome..... are you sic?



You didn't let me finish. .... I thought it was Dennis ....


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## Goldendragon7 (Dec 17, 2007)

Doc said:


> You didn't let me finish. .... I thought it was Dennis ....




Ohhhhhh well,...... in that case..... he was VERY handsome....

:roflmao:


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## IWishToLearn (Dec 17, 2007)

Personally I find that photo of Dr. Crouch, Doc, and Mr. Hale in Santa Rosa absolutely fascinating. I've been told it's one of the best pics of Doc...and I refuse to reveal who made that ascertation.


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## KenG (Dec 18, 2007)

i had saw doc in black belt mag. a few years back and his apperence has definitly changed..


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## Doc (Dec 18, 2007)

KenG said:


> i had saw doc in black belt mag. a few years back and his apperence has definitly changed..



Daughters and grand daughters have a profound impact on ones psyche and appearance over time. I am one many victims of the estrogen mafia sir.


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## Kraiguar (Dec 27, 2007)

_786_

_I first met Mr. Parker at the Pasedena school in 1967 with my instructor Steve Muhammad who was then known as (Steve Sanders) along with Ted Taylor and Vountria Moss. We were invited to his home after class and Vountria and I were given many pictures and magazines by Mr. Parker of many of the men spoken of including Tino T. _
_From that time until he left us I was honored and humbled to have spent time and space and like most of you to have receive many gifts from Mr. Parker and to have returned a gift given which pleased him much._
_One day while at his home he accepted a phone call from Mrs. Parker. When he returned he told me that it was from a Blackbelt who wanted to be promoted to fifth degree. Mr. Parker told him that he held classes at the Santa Monica school on thursdays and that he was welcome to come and attend. The caller said he felt he deserved this rank without attending class and refused the invite. I won't say who that caller was but some of you know him and his motives very well._
_Mr. Parker was always in motion be it as Jerry Smith would say physical, mechanical, technical, academic, psychological and spiritual and we all have a duty whether first generation or not to be diligent in our giving to others the gifts that were passed on by a truly amazing and wonderful man. ~Peace and Blessings~_


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