# Facebook fight leads to hit-and-run



## Carol (Jan 11, 2010)

A story that's been in the news here...two teens in neighboring towns had been having words with one another on Facebook.  The two decided to square off and...ahem...settle their differences in person, each with a small group of friends in tow.  Or so they thought.

Details of the fight were posted on Facebook.  The teen from Woburn took three friends in her car and drove to Melrose, where she was going to fight the teen from Melrose.  Upon arrival, she arrived, she found a mob of people waiting for her (police say about 15 youths were waiting for the girls).  Knowing that she had gotten herself in to a very bad situation, she turned around to flee.

While leaving the scene, the mother of one of the teens in the 'mob' went running for her car, and was struck by the Woburn teen's car.  The Woburn teen did not stop, and may face to hit-and-run charges.

http://www1.whdh.com/news/articles/local/BO133074/

Thoughts?  

Solving a problem with one's fists isn't a good idea, but as some folks have mentioned in other threads, you can't necessarily stop kids from fighting.  

I think the events would have had a very different outcome had the Woburn teen stopped the car.


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## Bob Hubbard (Jan 11, 2010)

20 people, guilty of Stupid in the First Degree.


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## Gary Crawford (Jan 11, 2010)

Amen!!!


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## sgtmac_46 (Jan 12, 2010)

Bob Hubbard said:


> 20 people, guilty of Stupid in the First Degree.



Can't disagree, although as a teenager I was guilty of some pretty dumb in public behavior of a similar sort........this one time I showed up with 3 friends (two nerds and a girl) and found myself confronted by 30 people, I took the offensive and blasted and bluffed my way through it, knocking the other guy unconscious, and convincing his friends that if any of them jumped in, I would find each and every one of them individually put them in intensive care, eat their dog, and all sorts of nasty stuff that sounded good at the time........fortunately they didn't call my bluff or i'd have been the one in intensive care (street fighting ain't safe).

It's been many years since those days, fortunately, so I can laugh about them now.

Better to avoid such confrontations............but live and learn.


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## sgtmac_46 (Jan 12, 2010)

Carol said:


> Mantini and her friends supposedly changed their minds about fighting and drove off. Police say their vehicle ended up hitting Nicole McCarthy, a mother who had been trying to stop the potential brawl.
> 
> http://www1.whdh.com/news/articles/local/BO133074/



What i'm wondering about is why this gals mom was in the middle of this whole fight, and why she's trying to block the way so the other girls can't leave.

'Trying to stop the fight' my ***!  You don't try to stop the fight by trying to stop the car to drag the other girl out, you stop the fight by grabbing your daughter by the ear and dragging her back to the house........but something tells me mom planned on doing a little fighting of her own........leading by example, so to speak.


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## Carol (Jan 12, 2010)

sgtmac_46 said:


> What i'm wondering about is why this gals mom was in the middle of this whole fight, and why she's trying to block the way so the other girls can't leave.
> 
> 'Trying to stop the fight' my ***!  You don't try to stop the fight by trying to stop the car to drag the other girl out, you stop the fight by grabbing your daughter by the ear and dragging her back to the house........but something tells me mom planned on doing a little fighting of her own........leading by example, so to speak.



Given the neighborhood, that sounds about right.



> 5:37 p.m. Two females fighting on Vinton Street at West Emerson Street. One intoxicated female transported to Melrose-Wakefield Hospital.


http://www.wickedlocal.com/melrose/news/police_and_fire/x548621450/Melrose-Police-and-Fire-Log



> Arrests:
> George D. Jackson, 17, 24 Vinton St., Melrose, breaking and entering in the daytime to commit a felony, breaking glass on a building


http://www.wickedlocal.com/beverly/news/police_and_fire/x1708112917/Police-log


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## Daniel Sullivan (Jan 12, 2010)

People who jump in front of moving cars deserve the tire tracks they get.  I have no sympathy for this woman.

Nor do I have any sympathy for the idiot girl who drove away, and who will likely be charged if she has not already.

Facebook fight taken to real time?  Stupid.  People with no lives.  Hope they all end up sentenced to a lifetime ban on their internet service.

Daniel


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## Gordon Nore (Jan 12, 2010)

Carol said:


> Thoughts?
> 
> Solving a problem with one's fists isn't a good idea, but as some folks have mentioned in other threads, you can't necessarily stop kids from fighting.
> 
> I think the events would have had a very different outcome had the Woburn teen stopped the car.



A part of me says, kids fight -- always have, always will. The problem that I see nowadays is that these skirmishes escalate. More people, more payback, and, in this story, an automobile.

This is one of the reasons schools are more vigilant about fighting. We simply cannot count on the grudge ending with fisticuffs. It's becoming more common for kids to bring friends and siblings, not just to witness, but to participate. At one time, the presence of a parent or any adult might have calmed situations, but that's not the case anymore.

If the mother in this case had known in advance of this confrontation and was unable to keep her daughter and friends away, she probably would have been better off calling the police.


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## Omar B (Jan 12, 2010)

Yet another reason why I don't take part in any of that social networking, myspace, facebook, twitter, or blogging type activity.  Not only am I really private and hate sharing my personal life with people in such a naturalistic way, but you end up opening yourself up to the whole world and whoever might take issue with what you believe or what you say.  Like these two here, although neither had the maturity to leave things that didn't happen in the real world alone.

I don't consider people I've never met face to face friends either, I never got that whole deal with social networking, seems to cheapen the value of actual friends who come over and share their lives with you.


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## Guardian (Jan 14, 2010)

This is ridiculous and a kid might have her life ruined due to a stupid Mother who decided that she was tougher then a car no matter what she was doing or who's fault it was.  You don't take cars on no matter what.


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## Zero (Jan 15, 2010)

Cannot of course condone any of this pathetic, low grade, sub-human behaviour but have no fault with the kid running the mom over per se. Foolish for putting yourself in that situation but if faced with a crowd of 30 or so against you (and just a couple of friends), who is going to get out of the vehicle? If it was looking ugly, run over all 30 of them if needs be if that means getting out of there rather than ending up stomped to death.

As an aside, if you can justfiably use a gun in self defence when faced with a threat on one's life, why is use of a vehicle not also justifiable in certain instances?

Furthermore, in this instance it does not seem that the girl intentionally ran over the (already brain-dead) mother, the mum seems to have put herself in harms way.


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## Deaf Smith (Jan 15, 2010)

You know, I read about things like road rage, idiots at bars getting into fights and end up knifing someone, and here they meet on the internet, trade insults, and go meet them in person.

And that reminds me of GUNKID!

I know almost all of you never heard of GUNKID. Gunkid was a guy named John Davis. He was a super internet troll in gun boards. 

Now Davis, yes that is his real name, was an ex IPSC star back in the 60s. But he got in trouble with the law making silencers and selling them. Got busted.

Well after he got out he went on the internet and just harassed all the gun boards for years and years. He and sparred all the time cuase I hate people who advocate murder, especially giving out advice how not to be caught (and GUNKID had by then been busted TWICE for felonies..)

Anyway, he once challenged me to meet him in Denver. Supposedly bring a buddy to witness/judge our shooting skills.

Nope gang, I knew better than to meet with a nut job like Davis. No telling what would have actually happened. He challenged people all the time and threatened to find them and come 'visit' them (don't worry, WE found his IP address and where he lived in Colorado....)

Well, you might ask, where is this John Davis now? He is in the federal pen in Arkansas.... got busted a third time!

http://www.thegunzone.com/forum_advice.html#nb1

http://www.voy.com/9259/7854.html

Just do a google on 'gunkid john davis' and you will read some history!

I only hope the many many post exchanges we had got the feds to look up Davis and set the trap that got him busted. Felon in posession of lots and lots of ammo and guns.

Since he was 53 at the time, I suspect he will be into his 60s when he gets out.

But the lesson to learn is this. Don't go meeting people you post to on the internet unless you know, really know, just who they are.

Deaf


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## MA-Caver (Jan 16, 2010)

Omar B said:


> I don't consider people I've never met face to face friends either, I never got that whole deal with social networking, seems to cheapen the value of actual friends who come over and share their lives with you.


Agreed... which is why *97%* of the people on my FB friend's list are people I have actually MET face to face and associated with them for a little while OR I know them from here on MT... 
I only use FB as a means to keep touch with old friends. 
If I get a friend request from a person I don't know (or maybe not remember  ) then I'll ask where, how do I know them... if they're just "feeling me out" they're going to get a brick wall.


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## sgtmac_46 (Jan 16, 2010)

Deaf Smith said:


> You know, I read about things like road rage, idiots at bars getting into fights and end up knifing someone, and here they meet on the internet, trade insults, and go meet them in person.
> 
> And that reminds me of GUNKID!
> 
> ...



Now that's a true piece of Net Lore!

By the way, I get 'the assault wheel barrow'........but how is the de-barked chihuahua supposed to work?


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## Carol (Jan 16, 2010)

Deaf Smith said:


> But the lesson to learn is this. Don't go meeting people you post to on the internet unless you know, really know, just who they are.
> 
> Deaf



Good advice Deaf :asian:  

Although, that may not be the moral of this particular story.  The way this story played out (they lived near each other, were fighting over a boy they had each dated, etc.) I suspect the girls knew each other.

However, where a lot of people tend to run afoul...especially with social networking sites....is a lack of understanding as to how public that info truly is.  This to me is the core lesson of this particular story.

Some people will say "I have my page set so only my friends can see what I write."  But how long would it take one friend to e-mail what you write to a bunch of people?  How long would it take for one friend to repost what you write on a site/page that is more public?

I'm confident that the Melrose girl was able to rally the "support" that she had because both girls were likely posting about what they were doing.  But that is something that could have gone a variety of ways.  They might have gone to a location and found the local constabulary waiting for them instead.


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## Omar B (Jan 16, 2010)

MA-Caver said:


> Agreed... which is why *97%* of the people on my FB friend's list are people I have actually MET face to face and associated with them for a little while OR I know them from here on MT...
> I only use FB as a means to keep touch with old friends.
> If I get a friend request from a person I don't know (or maybe not remember  ) then I'll ask where, how do I know them... if they're just "feeling me out" they're going to get a brick wall.



I agree man.  I'm never on AIM, and when I am it's usually sending a file to one of my friends or getting one.

I have no problems with people online.  It's these manufactured friendships based on nothing but a picture and a couple lines of text.

I distinguish people on a message board differently though.  We have a common purpose and have common interests and we share ideas.  Were we to meet I have no doubt we would get along famously then we can apply such a tag.


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## Carol (Jan 16, 2010)

Omar B said:


> I agree man.  I'm never on AIM, and when I am it's usually sending a file to one of my friends or getting one.
> 
> I have no problems with people online.  It's these manufactured friendships based on nothing but a picture and a couple lines of text.
> 
> I distinguish people on a message board differently though.  We have a common purpose and have common interests and we share ideas.  Were we to meet I have no doubt we would get along famously then we can apply such a tag.



Personally I agree.   I have a good chunk of "facebook friends" but the folks I add are largely folks that are either real-life friends or friends that I've met through online communities (such as MT) or professional organizations.


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## Deaf Smith (Jan 16, 2010)

sgtmac_46 said:


> Now that's a true piece of Net Lore!
> 
> By the way, I get 'the assault wheel barrow'........but how is the de-barked chihuahua supposed to work?


 
Sgtmac,

Well Gunkid's theory ran that you had this debarked Chihuahua around you while you slept and the critter would warn you if anyone crept up at night yet not make any noise. Well yes, as far as it goes I guess a little dog will do that. We have TWO Chihuahuas and if someone bust in they will very well let us know, but they ain't debarked or any cruel thing like that.

Gunkid felt he could sneak around in any SHTF TEOTWAWKI thing and at night ambush people and get their gear. Yes murder them. Of course stumbling around in the dark at night making all kinds of noise didn't faze him. Nor leaving tracks with his wheelbarrow a blind man could follow. And the idea that the locals might just band together and follow his trail to his hide and just burn him out he just ignored.

Oh well, anyway his release date is THIS OCTOBER! Don't be shocked if he gets out, gets a PC, and starts where he left off.

Oh, and he said he was a black belt at Taekwondo and was deadly with his bicycle kicks. I dunno what a bicycle kick is but he was so deadly with it he let the cops drag him to jail three times.

Carol,

Just if you go to meet any people you find in such as Facebook, have good friends to sort of be a table away, unknown, and keep tabs for the first few meetings. In spookspeak it would be a babysitter who does not acknowledge your or their presence but keeps you safe.

Or if you are like me, just bring your six best friends (as in revolver... or really for me a Glock and my 11 best friends.) But then if you are me, and married, you would better not be meeting people from the net anyway!

Deaf


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## sgtmac_46 (Jan 17, 2010)

Deaf Smith said:


> Sgtmac,
> 
> Well Gunkid's theory ran that you had this debarked Chihuahua around you while you slept and the critter would warn you if anyone crept up at night yet not make any noise. Well yes, as far as it goes I guess a little dog will do that. We have TWO Chihuahuas and if someone bust in they will very well let us know, but they ain't debarked or any cruel thing like that.
> 
> ...


 I've met quite a few Gunkids in real life......they are every bit as charming and full of **** as they are on line!

I know a guy who says he was a Navy SEAL and that he's a multiple black belt.........I got a call to a local trailer park a couple years back, where he got in to it with a couple teenage punks, who cleaned his clock pretty thoroughly.......I thought of asking him what happened to his SEAL and Martial Arts training, but didn't want to hear his BS answer.


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## Rich Parsons (Jan 17, 2010)

Carol said:


> A story that's been in the news here...two teens in neighboring towns had been having words with one another on Facebook. The two decided to square off and...ahem...settle their differences in person, each with a small group of friends in tow. Or so they thought.
> 
> Details of the fight were posted on Facebook. The teen from Woburn took three friends in her car and drove to Melrose, where she was going to fight the teen from Melrose. Upon arrival, she arrived, she found a mob of people waiting for her (police say about 15 youths were waiting for the girls). Knowing that she had gotten herself in to a very bad situation, she turned around to flee.
> 
> ...


 

15 to 3 is 5 to one odds. At best this scary and makes one feel like they could die.

But let us look at it from a different manner, it only take one or two to tie a person up so they cannot help another, and then now it is 13 to one in a kick fest while the one is on the ground dying. Then you move onto the other two left, where the odds only get worse. 

Now add in the teens were also facing adults.
We will ignore the whole adult issue of stepping in and chasing a moving car, which brings to mind a dog chaing a car. 

I do not condon hitting someone with a car. 

I do not condon an adult chasing teens who are trying to leave. Take a picture of their car and write down the plate number and call in the police and you get a much better result. 

Of course the 3 that went was considered the aggressors as they went to someone else's house. But even if a person is attacked and the attacker ends up on the ground, and the defender attacks the attacker on the ground now the defender is the attacker. The 15 kids are now the attackers, and the adult is adding to it. 

It looks bad for the three kids. A good lawyer, would charge the fifteen and the adult insighting a riot, reckless endangerment (* An adult was present and not taking control *) and then form there it would be assault charges on the 15 and the adult and if they threw anything at the vehicle, not only vandalism but assault and battery.  In the end the media will drop it or carry both sides, but the legal system will end up most likely calling it mutual assault. 

I am not a lawyer, so anyone reading this should consult their own legal advice, and make sure they are not just reading advice from the internet. 


Thanks


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## sgtmac_46 (Jan 18, 2010)

Rich Parsons said:


> 15 to 3 is 5 to one odds. At best this scary and makes one feel like they could die.
> 
> But let us look at it from a different manner, it only take one or two to tie a person up so they cannot help another, and then now it is 13 to one in a kick fest while the one is on the ground dying. Then you move onto the other two left, where the odds only get worse.
> 
> ...



What will likely happen is that if charges are filled, the Prosecutor will offer whoever is charged a seriously reduced plea bargain, a suspended imposition of sentence and a couple years unsupervised probation, with the condition they don't get in any more fights.

The reason they will do this is that the case is a mess........because nobody involved is an innocent party, and bringing it to trial will expose that fact.  So a conviction isn't a high probability once the defense attorney starts cross-examining the witnesses, some of whom will undoubtedly lie and tell conflicting stories on the stand.


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## Carol (Jan 18, 2010)

Sarge, other than the police custody part, is there much difference between an arrest and a summons?    

After the incident, the Woburn teen drove directly to the Woburn police station and reported what had happened.  She wasn't arrested, but was given a summons to appear in court for leaving the scene.


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## sgtmac_46 (Jan 18, 2010)

Carol said:


> Sarge, other than the police custody part, is there much difference between an arrest and a summons?
> 
> After the incident, the Woburn teen drove directly to the Woburn police station and reported what had happened.  She wasn't arrested, but was given a summons to appear in court for leaving the scene.



Not much difference.  An arrest involves physically taking custody of someone.  A summons is issued in lieu of arrest, but the ultimate result is exactly the same, a court date and time is given.

My ultimate guess is that the police really look at this as stupidity on both sides, and issued her a summons to shut everyone else up.  They didn't arrest her because they didn't think it warranted the paper work, given that everyone involved on both sides of this incident was dirty.

It's exactly what I would have done.......called everyone in, had them fill out statements, looked at the statements, and then issued her a summons for court, and told them to stay the hell away from each other before I start taking people to jail.


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## Rich Parsons (Jan 18, 2010)

sgtmac_46 said:


> What will likely happen is that if charges are filled, the Prosecutor will offer whoever is charged a seriously reduced plea bargain, a suspended imposition of sentence and a couple years unsupervised probation, with the condition they don't get in any more fights.
> 
> The reason they will do this is that the case is a mess........because nobody involved is an innocent party, and bringing it to trial will expose that fact. So a conviction isn't a high probability once the defense attorney starts cross-examining the witnesses, some of whom will undoubtedly lie and tell conflicting stories on the stand.


 
Good points, which supports my comments I believe about a good lawyer could make this go away with little to no system involvement.


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## sgtmac_46 (Jan 19, 2010)

Rich Parsons said:


> Good points, which supports my comments I believe about a good lawyer could make this go away with little to no system involvement.



Heck, I think a mediocre lawyer could make this go away with little to no system involvement.

When your victim is unsympathetic, a voluntary participant, and probably lying, and all your witnesses are telling conflicting stories, you've got no case.


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## Nishibi Ryu (Jan 19, 2010)

Sounds to me like cyber bullying meets real life bullying, stupid people the lot of them. That mother should be ashamed of herself the only reason she should have been there was to kick her daughters **** all the way home for being involved.
No wonder the girl did not stop fear would have taken over when she came at her and who knows how big she was she could have been an amazon!
Face book is a menace and should be shut down and they should all get a life, the amount of crap that goes on is unbeleivable.
I was told by a business friend that one of their staff had resigned and then went on face book to try to destroy the business, her parents were involved ( ex dirty police ) and every stupid student from her school got involved and even went to the shop to disrupt it. They have now spent thousands to stop it but it still goes on and these people managed to find 20k other idiots to log on and rubbish them, stupid facebookers!!!!


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## Maiden_Ante (Feb 6, 2010)

Wouldn't surprise me one bit if the mob would've beaten the girl to death/near death had she stopped out of anger.


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