# Exchange Shaolin for Ninjutsu



## wiz cool c (Nov 28, 2015)

Anyone Godans or higher here want to exchange Shaolin and Shaolin Hard Qi Gong/iron fist for advanced Bujinkan training. This would have to be an online exchange. I reached Shodan over a decade ago and quit training in Bujinkan due to disagreements with the way the organization is run. I have been living in china for the past 8 years [I am certified in Shaolin and Shaolin iron hand and hard Qi Gong]. This would have to be an online exchange obviously. PM me if anyone ranked Godan or higher is interested.


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## cypher (Dec 27, 2015)

What is hard Qi Gong? I thought it was primarily soft energy work?


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## wiz cool c (Dec 27, 2015)

hard qi gong are a series of exercises that involve breathing and qi work along with tough body conditioning. to give a clearer explanation, some drills involve dynamic tension type movements along with special breathing, some involve hitting the body with your fist also while doing special breathing, some involve pressing or hitting the body against objects again while using special breathing. these exercises are used to strengthens and toughen up the body for contact. they are always balanced with soft breathing, moving and massaging type of drills.


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## Chris Parker (Dec 28, 2015)

wiz cool c said:


> View attachment 19677
> Anyone Godans or higher here want to exchange Shaolin and Shaolin Hard Qi Gong/iron fist for advanced Bujinkan training. This would have to be an online exchange. I reached Shodan over a decade ago and quit training in Bujinkan due to disagreements with the way the organization is run. I have been living in china for the past 8 years [I am certified in Shaolin and Shaolin iron hand and hard Qi Gong]. This would have to be an online exchange obviously. PM me if anyone ranked Godan or higher is interested.



Is this a serious question?


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## wiz cool c (Dec 28, 2015)

this is serious and i have done martial art for 30 years last 8 or 9 years living in china. I trained in bujinkan for about 7 years through the 90s and got a shodan,you are free to check out my website.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Dec 28, 2015)

How would you teach someone Shaolin Qi Gong or Bujinkan over the internet? Especially once you reach the more advanced stages.


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## Dirty Dog (Dec 28, 2015)

kempodisciple said:


> How would you teach someone Shaolin Qi Gong or Bujinkan over the internet? Especially once you reach the more advanced stages.



The short answer: You cannot.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Dec 28, 2015)

kempodisciple said:


> How would you teach someone Shaolin Qi Gong or Bujinkan over the internet? Especially once you reach the more advanced stages.



No you simply cannot and why I believe Chris asked if it was a serious question!


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Dec 28, 2015)

That was the point I was trying to make. Shouldn't have used a question mark I guess


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## Xue Sheng (Dec 28, 2015)

Why Godan?

Shodan is 1st, Godan is 5th. Or at least that is this CMA guys poor understanding of the ranking system

And Iron fist training...online....sorry no...that is potentially crippling


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## Tez3 (Dec 28, 2015)

Xue Sheng said:


> And Iron fist training...online....sorry no...that is potentially crippling



There is a disturbing trend for people to post up 'how to videos' which are dangerous, one I have in mind is teaching young girls anxious to be ballet dancers to go en pointe. Girls as young as ten are 'teaching' themselves to go on their points, a process which is normally very carefully and painstakingly taught by qualified and experienced teachers. I don't really know much about Iron Fist but I certainly deplore this trend to teach yourself via videos.
On Their Toes and Asking for Trouble,   Self-Taught Ballerinas Go Online


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## wiz cool c (Dec 28, 2015)

you can ask richard van dunk and the gracies how internet teaching is done


You guys continue to live your mediocre lives,[the great will always soar above the medium, they create while others destroy].i will be unwatching this thread ,so bicker amongst yourselves


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## Chris Parker (Dec 28, 2015)

Kid, you really have no idea, do you?


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## Chris Parker (Dec 28, 2015)

Xue Sheng said:


> Why Godan?
> 
> Shodan is 1st, Godan is 5th. Or at least that is this CMA guys poor understanding of the ranking system
> 
> And Iron fist training...online....sorry no...that is potentially crippling



Hey, Xue, as "wiz cool c" is unwatching his own thread (ha!), I might as well explain where his bizarre logic comes from…

In the Bujinkan, Godan is considered the entry point rank for being an official teacher (Shidoshi). You can teach under the direction of a Shidoshi prior to that, but only Godan and higher are considered to be actual teachers. In other organisations, the entry rank is different, of course… 

Thing is, a Godan in the Bujinkan could just as easily be someone with only a couple of years training (if that!), and little in the way of knowledge, understanding, skill, or anything else… or could be a dedicated, skilful, knowledgable and experienced practitioner heading into counting their time in decades rather than years… and there's no way to tell which you have based purely on rank. What's certain, though, is that Godan is not "advanced" in and of itself… by the official standards of the Bujinkan, the "advanced" teachers (Shihan) is anyone 10th Dan or above… with only the 15th Dan being the most senior… although even that is something debated within the Bujinkan itself, with people seeming to pick and choose who they want to attribute a particular title to (some only class certain Japanese instructors as Shihan, others call them the "true Shihan", but acknowledge the official title of others, and so on). A year or so ago, Hatsumi started handing out new certification to a couple of senior Japanese members (Nagato, Noguchi) with the title "Dai Shihan" (Big Shihan)… seemingly a way to give distance again to the Japanese teachers now that so many Westerners shared their 15th Dan ranking, without further stretching the ranking concept to, oh, let's say, 21 Dan grades (which Hatsumi has joked about previously…).


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## Dirty Dog (Dec 28, 2015)

wiz cool c said:


> you can ask richard van dunk and the gracies how internet teaching is done



We could just ask Ashida Kim...

I believe there was a thread recently about the Gracie program. As I recall (my memory isn't perfect, and it was only mildly interesting to me) the Gracie online Blue Belt was under discussion after being whupped by a lower belt from a real school.



wiz cool c said:


> You guys continue to live your mediocre lives,[the great will always soar above the medium, they create while others destroy].i will be unwatching this thread ,so bicker amongst yourselves



Since you're convinced you can learn from online sources, why bother asking here? Just go one over to YouTube and check out the videos from Ashida Kim, Choson Ninja, Billy Crepeau, etc. I'm sure you'll be a Real Ninjer in no time at all.


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## Tez3 (Dec 29, 2015)

wiz cool c said:


> you can ask richard van dunk and the gracies how internet teaching is done
> 
> 
> You guys continue to live your mediocre lives,[the great will always soar above the medium, they create while others destroy].i will be unwatching this thread ,so bicker amongst yourselves



Not sure quite how he's going to teach via video when he can't actually communicate properly but hey, it made me laugh.


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## Flying Crane (Dec 29, 2015)

wiz cool c said:


> you can ask richard van dunk and the gracies how internet teaching is done


Oh I do know a little bit about Richard Von Dork.  He's not someone I would suggest you emulate.


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## Xue Sheng (Dec 29, 2015)

wiz cool c said:


> you can ask richard van dunk and the gracies how internet teaching is done
> 
> 
> You guys continue to live your mediocre lives,[the great will always soar above the medium, they create while others destroy].i will be unwatching this thread ,so bicker amongst yourselves



Hmm...So we don't agree, you don't like what is being said, we don't all fall to our knees and worship at the feet of a guy trained at Shaolin in China, and you decided to get condescending and insulting.... and the only one bickering here is you......... you have a lot to learn grasshopper


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## wiz cool c (Jan 2, 2016)

Stephen K. Hayes' Ninja Self Defense  Steven Hayes teaching online All the best teacher’s from all major martial arts offer online and dvd instructions, including Hatsumi.,[is this a serious question] if jealousy makes you guys angry, you need to look deep inside yourself and what martial arts really means,and try hard to remember the self discipline and respect part of it.


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## elder999 (Jan 2, 2016)

wiz cool c said:


> Stephen K. Hayes' Ninja Self Defense  Steven Hayes teaching online All the best teacher’s from all major martial arts offer online and dvd instructions,




"All the best teachers".......not so sure how you're categorizing that


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Jan 2, 2016)

wiz cool c said:


> Stephen K. Hayes' Ninja Self Defense  Steven Hayes teaching online All the best teacher’s from all major martial arts offer online and dvd instructions, including Hatsumi.,[is this a serious question] if jealousy makes you guys angry, you need to look deep inside yourself and what martial arts really means,and try hard to remember the self discipline and respect part of it.


Not sure where you're getting the idea anybody is jealous or angry. If anything, we're laughing about it.


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## Chris Parker (Jan 3, 2016)

wiz cool c said:


> Stephen K. Hayes' Ninja Self Defense  Steven Hayes teaching online



Hayes' Toshindo program is designed to be done in conjunction with frequent (in person) contact with actual instructors. So… no.



wiz cool c said:


> All the best teacher’s from all major martial arts offer online and dvd instructions, including Hatsumi.,



Releasing DVDs as promotional and reference material is nowhere near the same thing as offering "DVD instruction"… so… no.

And dude, "all the best teachers"?!?! Seriously… just… no.



wiz cool c said:


> [is this a serious question] if jealousy makes you guys angry, you need to look deep inside yourself and what martial arts really means,and try hard to remember the self discipline and respect part of it.



Ha!!! 

Dude… just…. no.


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## Xue Sheng (Jan 3, 2016)

wiz cool c said:


> Stephen K. Hayes' Ninja Self Defense  Steven Hayes teaching online All the best teacher’s from all major martial arts offer online and dvd instructions, including Hatsumi.,[is this a serious question] if jealousy makes you guys angry, you need to look deep inside yourself and what martial arts really means,and try hard to remember the self discipline and respect part of it.



Didn't they talk at all about the concept of ego in your Shaolin training? They are Buddhist ...think noble 8 fold path

Jealousy has nothing to do with it, but the name calling you are reverting to tells me you are not actually legitimate.

As for DVD training, did you know, for the most part, it is a money making proposition out of China. Most, if not all, do not teach the same exact form as they would in person because that way, when the run across someone claiming to have trained with them, they can tell by looking at the form.


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## wiz cool c (Jan 4, 2016)

Is Master Wing Lam serious. This young whpiper snapper is going to cripple someone.


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## Dirty Dog (Jan 4, 2016)

wiz cool c said:


> Is Master Wing Lam serious Shaolin Iron Palm Master Kit This young whpiper snapper is going to cripple someone.



No, he's not serious. He's scamming fools out of their money.
Did you buy this DVD?


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## Flying Crane (Jan 4, 2016)

wiz cool c said:


> Is Master Wing Lam serious Shaolin Iron Palm Master Kit This young whpiper snapper is going to cripple someone.


Please tell me you aren't actually using a video series to train on your own.  Especially something like iron Palm.  Yeah, cripple someone: yourself.


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## wiz cool c (Jan 4, 2016)

*Is Masaaki Hatsumi serious? SPD-7009
Bujinkan Series Vol.9: Hidden Weapons & Shuriken Techniques by Masaaki Hatsumi. Some young boy or girl is going to get a sword and try to copy what they see and kill some one or [cripple them]. what are these
irresponsible people doing, and are they serious?
*


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## Flying Crane (Jan 4, 2016)

wiz cool c said:


> *Is Masaaki Hatsumi serious? SPD-7009*
> *Bujinkan Series Vol.9: Hidden Weapons & Shuriken Techniques by Masaaki Hatsumi. Some young boy or girl is going to get a sword and try to copy what they see and kill some one or [cripple them]. what are these*
> *irresponsible people doing, and are they serious?*


He may be serious, I've not had a chance to ask him so I don't know.  Even if he is serious, that doesn't mean it's a good idea.


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## wiz cool c (Jan 4, 2016)

*No I live in Henan Songshan mountains aka Shaolin temple[ever heard of it?], been in China for the past 9 years.and have trained in martial arts for 30 years. I am offering online training, in the same way many other masters are. *


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## wiz cool c (Jan 4, 2016)

Chris Parker said:


> Hayes' Toshindo program is designed to be done in conjunction with frequent (in person) contact with actual instructors. So… no.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


*And we also offer this. *


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## Dirty Dog (Jan 4, 2016)

So you're taking money from fools too?


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## Dirty Dog (Jan 4, 2016)

wiz cool c said:


> *No I live in Henan Songshan mountains aka Shaolin temple[ever heard of it?], been in China for the past 9 years.and have trained in martial arts for 30 years. I am offering online training, in the same way many other masters are.*



So you're claiming to be a Master now? Who awarded you this status?


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## wiz cool c (Jan 4, 2016)

*Master Ren Guang-Yi,yeah he is not a top master in his style is he,try harder guys your troll fu is not good enough. *


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## Dirty Dog (Jan 4, 2016)

Why are you shouting? I'd expect a Master of any art to have more self control. Of course, not all who claim such rank actually deserve it.


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## wiz cool c (Jan 4, 2016)

masaaki hatsumi who is this guy and what does he think he is doing selling instructional dvds,is he serious?


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## Dirty Dog (Jan 4, 2016)

He's a guy cashing in on the gullibility of fools, of course.


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## wiz cool c (Jan 4, 2016)

Gracie family? Gracie jujutsu, another bunch of con artist nobodies out there trying to scam money, who are all these lowlifes doing nothing to contribute to the martial art world.


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## wiz cool c (Jan 4, 2016)

o god even these low life Olympic gold medal winners are making these things now.


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## wiz cool c (Jan 4, 2016)

Yeah why would anyone want to travel to the birth place of martial arts and train with the masters , when they can hang out with winners like you and the others on here.


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## Hanzou (Jan 4, 2016)

wiz cool c said:


> Gracie family? Gracie jujutsu, another bunch of con artist nobodies out there trying to scam money, who are all these lowlifes doing nothing to contribute to the martial art world Sale of the Week: Classic Instructional DVDs - Gracie News



I'd just like to chime in and say that the vast majority of the Bjj community doesn't take online belts seriously, and the Rener and Ryron Gracie themselves have stated that online belts aren't to be considered equal to belts earned in face to face training. The most you can earn via their online academy is a "technical blue belt", which is considered a significant step below an actual blue belt in Bjj.

Further, the entire Gracie family doesn't support handing out online belts, it's just one branch of it.


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## Chris Parker (Jan 4, 2016)

wiz cool c said:


> masaaki hatsumi who is this guy and what does he think he is doing selling instructional dvds,is he serious? masaaki hatsumi dvd - Google 搜尋



Child. They are not instructional DVDs. They are reference material intended for usage by people who already know what they're doing… and are full of issues if used for instruction (incorrect kata, mistakes [deliberate] in performance, unrelated material slipped in, and more).

Seriously, not all martial art DVDs are "instructional"… most aren't. The fact that you are unaware of this doesn't bode well for you.


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## Tony Dismukes (Jan 5, 2016)

I'm actually a big fan of instructional videos - but as a supplement to hands-on instruction, not a substitute.

As far as Hatsumi's videos, I agree with Chris. They're pretty worthless for instructional purposes.


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## Flying Crane (Jan 5, 2016)

wiz cool c said:


> *No I live in Henan Songshan mountains aka Shaolin temple[ever heard of it?], been in China for the past 9 years.and have trained in martial arts for 30 years. I am offering online training, in the same way many other masters are. *


Never heard of it.  Is it in South Dakota somewhere?


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## Xue Sheng (Jan 5, 2016)

I have never meant a person from Shaolin, that got as angry as you are.... and the threats are very much out of character for Shaolin.



wiz cool c said:


> This young whpiper snapper is going to cripple someone.



And that sounds like a threat



wiz cool c said:


> *Master Ren Guang-Yi,yeah he is not a top master in his style is he,try harder guys your troll fu is not good enough. *



Based on your angry responses (large, bolded font) and your 9 years in China at Shaolin have taught you little....and you sir are no Ren Guangyi

I have  talked with Ren Guang-Yi and he is a top master, senior student of Chen Xiaowang, trained at Chen Jiagou, and has been teaching taijiquan or about 25 years, and he sells DVDs, but he does not plan on any of it being distance learning like you are offering. He also would not get as hostile as you appear to be getting if someone questioned him.

Also talked with Zhou Xuan Yun who is out of Wudang. He offers DVDs for training, but would prefer that you come to classes. HE also offers distance learning, but it is small groups, videos are needed and you need to be online at specific times to have him discuss your progress with you. Do I like his program, nope, it is probably not to bad as far as distance learning goes, but it is still no where near as good as it would be to go train with him in person. Is he doing it out od a great desire to spread what he knows. likely not, it is however a great way to make money. But again, he likely would not care what I say and even if I said it to him in person, I doubt he would get angry about it.

There are a lot of people out there offering DVD training, my first sifu is one of them. Does that make it good training, nope. But those offering it frankly do not much care what people think.

I have dealt with a lot of Chinese people and had several Chinese martial arts teachers (trained in China) and after 9 years in China at Shaolin one would think you would take this better than you have.

Master Wiz Cool c, a word of advice, threats will get you banned here.....


You may also want to read this
Thich Nhat Hanh on Loosening the Knots of Anger


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## wiz cool c (Jan 9, 2016)

Who is this Shoto Tanemura fella, and what does he think he is doing selling these instructional dvds,certainly he is not a leading authority in his field;] Samurai Jujutsu 7 DVD Set by Shoto Tanemura

And who is this Hatsumi character I keep hearing about, and why is he scamming all these innocent people, certainly HE is not a leading authority in his field either;] queststation.com

And who is this Steven Hayse chartactor, and why is he trying to teach people through dvds? Certainly he is not the leading authority of nijutsu in the western world;]To-Shin Do 12-DVD Black Belt Course | Ninja Self Defense

O wait a minute I have heard of all of them they are the best in their martial art fields, and they are teaching through dvds. And well myself being a guy that has done martial arts 30 years been living in china about 9 years now, and live in henan aka the shaolin temple, kind makes me a western leading authority at shaolin kung fu and hard qi gong. And wait I haven’t heard of any of you complainers here. Wonder why that is;]

Just to refresh you memory let me show you who I am[not selling anything mr moderator]just linking my page about me here


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## wiz cool c (Jan 9, 2016)

just to remind you of who i am and why you are all so bitter and jealous, maybe cause i am living the dream you wish you were WHO IS CHRIS -                    Shaolin Training in Songshan Mountains of The Shaolin Temple [not selling anything MR moderator,

it is just a bio page Mr Moderator Sir,is that ok masser?


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## wiz cool c (Jan 9, 2016)

Xue Sheng said:


> I have never meant a person from Shaolin, that got as angry as you are.... and the threats are very much out of character for Shaolin.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


you think i am reading all that s*%$ your crazy;]


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## elder999 (Jan 9, 2016)

wiz cool c said:


> just to remind you of who i am and why you are all so bitter and jealous, maybe cause i am living the dream you wish you were WHO IS CHRIS -                    Shaolin Training in Songshan Mountains of The Shaolin Temple [not selling anything MR moderator,
> 
> it is just a bio page Mr Moderator Sir,is that ok masser?


Oh, for the animated spewing coffee on the monitor smiley!

Or the "barf." I miss the barf, too-more, even.

Oh well.


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## elder999 (Jan 9, 2016)

elder999 said:


> Oh, for the animated spewing coffee on the monitor smiley!
> 
> Or the "barf." I miss the barf, too-more, even.
> 
> Oh well.


I mean, "nine years?"

Honestly?


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## Xue Sheng (Jan 9, 2016)

wiz cool c said:


> you think i am reading all that s*%$ your crazy;]



Does not matter to me if you read that or not, you are not what you claim to be, that is obvious, and certainly not worth my time. You have a nice day


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## Tez3 (Jan 9, 2016)

I've recently been considering making online instruction videos for the making of Yorkshire Puddings. I have been making them for several years and I've lived in Yorkshire for 30 odd years so am qualified to teach. If anyone wants to learn how to make and serve these delicious treats you can swap making them how non Yorkshire people make them and I'll show you how to really do it. It might surprise you that they aren't what you think they are.
I understand that all non Yorkshire folk are jealous, bitter and twisted at not knowing how to make and serve Yorkshire puddings correctly, I may have to *SHOUT LOUDLY* at you so you understand I am simply the best at teaching the art that eludes so many. Swap your inferior attempts now! We aren't short on controversy too, does one serve them only with roast beef or at any meal! And can also one serve it as a sweet dish? these arguments have drawn blood I might add.

This is another another tongue in cheek production brought to you by the Ilkley Moor Baht'at Wheel Tappers and Shunters Club. ( videos available to teach the world how to be more Yorkshire)


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## Transk53 (Jan 9, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> I've recently been considering making online instruction videos for the making of *Yorkshire Puddings*. I have been making them for several years and I've lived in Yorkshire for 30 odd years so am qualified to teach. If anyone wants to learn how to make and serve these delicious treats you can swap making them how non Yorkshire people make them and I'll show you how to really do it. It might surprise you that they aren't what you think they are.
> I understand that all non Yorkshire folk are jealous, bitter and twisted at not knowing how to make and serve Yorkshire puddings correctly, I may have to *SHOUT LOUDLY* at you so you understand I am simply the best at teaching the art that eludes so many. Swap your inferior attempts now! We aren't short on controversy too, does one serve them only with roast beef or at any meal! And can also one serve it as a sweet dish? these arguments have drawn blood I might add.



I for one certianly know what a Yorkshire pud made by a Yorkshire women tastes like. All the peas in middle soaked in gloopy gravy.


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## Tez3 (Jan 9, 2016)

Transk53 said:


> I for one certianly know what a Yorkshire pud made by a Yorkshire women tastes like. All the peas in middle soaked in gloopy gravy.



Lol! When I fist went to my in laws they served up Yorkshire Pudding the traditional way, one big stodgy one on a plate as a first course, no peas just the pudding and gravy! I made the mistake ( as a soft Southerner) of saying that we put jam or syrup on and have it as a sweet, well they never spoke to be again ( though actually that was a religious thing lol)


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## Flying Crane (Jan 10, 2016)

Anyone care to take a wager on wiz cool c's longevity here?


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## elder999 (Jan 10, 2016)

Flying Crane said:


> Anyone care to take a wager on wiz cool c's longevity here?


Nah...I'd bet she's already put her ego into her little red wagon with the rest of her toys, and gone back to Shaolin.....






Buh-bye!


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## kuniggety (Jan 10, 2016)

wiz cool c said:


> just to remind you of who i am and why you are all so bitter and jealous, maybe cause i am living the dream you wish you were WHO IS CHRIS -                    Shaolin Training in Songshan Mountains of The Shaolin Temple [not selling anything MR moderator,
> 
> it is just a bio page Mr Moderator Sir,is that ok masser?



I am happy for you that you are living your dream. I wish that upon everyone. Your dream is not everyone's, however.

Not to be condescending but it's hard to believe you're an American (your bio said you grew up in NJ). I've met varying levels of educated people but your grasp of the English language is atrocious.


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## Flying Crane (Jan 10, 2016)

kuniggety said:


> Not to be condescending but it's hard to believe you're an American (your bio said you grew up in NJ). I've met varying levels of educated people but your grasp of the English language is atrocious.


That's the giveaway: he's an American.  That, and his abraisive qualities.  Makes me embarrassed to also be an American.


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## EWBell (Jan 28, 2016)

wiz cool c said:


> Who is this Shoto Tanemura fella, and what does he think he is doing selling these instructional dvds,certainly he is not a leading authority in his field;] Samurai Jujutsu 7 DVD Set by Shoto Tanemura



Regardless of what the description says, you aren't taught how to do any of it....the techniques are demonstrated.  Unless you're already training it, then you'll be lost.  Too many fine points that take one on one instruction, and you can't get that from video.  The videos have deliberate mistakes in them, as many of the techniques are taught differently to real students.  One thing to note on the Panther videos...they are not considered official, and Tanemura Soke does not promote them in any way.  I enjoy viewing them, but then again I'm in the Genbukan, and have been taught it for real.  I see it as nothing more than a demonstration for people who are not in the Genbukan.


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## Aiki Lee (Feb 29, 2016)

wiz cool c said:


> Who is this Shoto Tanemura fella, and what does he think he is doing selling these instructional dvds,certainly he is not a leading authority in his field;] Samurai Jujutsu 7 DVD Set by Shoto Tanemura
> 
> And who is this Hatsumi character I keep hearing about, and why is he scamming all these innocent people, certainly HE is not a leading authority in his field either;] queststation.com
> 
> ...



What part of "they are supplemental materials meant for students in their organizations" do you not understand?


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