# Brown Belts Seem To Be Cocky



## Grasshopper22 (Apr 12, 2012)

In my Ju-Jitsu class I find that the higher ranked belts (not the high ranked Dans, mostly the brown belts) seem to not want to train with lower belts, they are cocky and quite frankly they think they're much better than they actually are. Do you have this problem where you train?


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## lklawson (Apr 12, 2012)

Grasshopper22 said:


> Do you have this problem where you train?


No.  When I teach WMA, we have few-to-no ranks and what "ranks" we do have are recognitions of skill level and aren't worn.  You have to mix with everyone and "put it on the mat."  If you have to limit yourself some, that's OK.  You're grooming future training partners so you have to bring them up to your level so that, in turn, they can push your level up from where it's at.  While it's true that you should always take the opportunity to work with folks better than you, because that brings your skills up, you should also work with people less experienced than you and bring their skills up.  This also gives you the opportunity to artificially limit yourself in some way which can also push your skills up.  For instance, if you're working with a less experienced person, maybe you ONLY throw with Koshi Garuma or ONLY use the Jab.

Now, it's no secret that I also go train in Judo too.  Same sort of system is there and I don't get any breaks.  We're all nice to each other but we're expected to be able and willing to work with anyone on the mat and to leave our egos at the door.  Rude awakenings seem to happen to those who don't.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## Cyriacus (Apr 12, 2012)

Youre probably misinterpriting the one issue with being a Brown Belt.

When Youre a beginner, Youre challenged by Learning. When Youre intermediate, Youre challenged by Your Peers. When You get to a high rank, being paired with anyone of a substancially lower rank, possesses no challenge other than not doing 90% of the stuff You could be.

This is one of the reasons I think Rank can blinker people a bit, because the above is not factual. Its just the conclusion some people come to.
Training with betters, lessers, and equals is all essential. Optimally, it should be balanced, with a bit of a lean towards equals.


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## jks9199 (Apr 15, 2012)

There's another issue with brown belts in many systems:  They're trying to be black belts.  That means they're worried about impressing the people who'll promote them, so may want to focus their training efforts on people who can help them do that.

Then there's the issue of working with beginners:  They do the damnedest things sometimes...  You just never know what's gonna happen.  They may not tap when they should, they may move in a way that they shouldn't...  they can be a real dangerous challenge.  

Put the two things together -- and it's easy to see that it could happen that a brown belt would avoid working with a beginner.  Not defending it, but you can kind of see how it happens.


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## ETinCYQX (Apr 15, 2012)

I'll play devils advocate. I say "no" all the time to rolling/sparring with beginners especially when I'm a month or less out of a competition. Sorry but risking them spazzing and breaking my arm is not worth saving their feelings.


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## Steve (Apr 16, 2012)

I agree in spirit with ETinCYQX, but I roll with white belts all the time, as the school I train at is small and just opened last October.  While I don't worry about my arms so much, the injury rate goes way up with new guys who panic.  I'm not too worried about my arms or my neck, but it's the nagging, irritating injuries that I run into: bloody lips, black eyes and lots of bruises from where they get a death grip and lock up.


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## Rich Parsons (Apr 16, 2012)

Green Belt Jitters - Nervous as they just seem to not get it.

Blue Belt Blues - Some confidence and willing to go test themselves. The Blues are when they either hurt someone or get hurt themselves. 

Brown Belt Over confidence - As stated by some. Impressions. They may have hurt people in the past and were told not to do it again. So they avoid those who might get hurt easiest or complain about the most so they are not on probation. Also they could be poor teachers and or frustrated with trying to show people how to do things. They also may not be good enough to adjust their timing to allow the white belt or lessor belts to move. 

Brand New Black Belt - Trying to prove they deserve it. Showing off. Thinking they can beat most people. Young and full of confidence and what they think is the peak of skill. 

Mid Rank Black Belt Plateau - They have been teaching beginners so much and teching only and not doing their own stuff that their timing might be off. They might be using their own timing when required but may not be as good as some lessor ranks. 

Senior Black Belts - Strutting around. - Gate keepers - sometimes mid level can do this as well also. Keeping people inline using politics or money or withholding techniques until you have proven to them that you are worthy of being enough of a servant to them. 

Grand Master - Founder - Head of Organization - where people out of respect stop resisting - you start to see more complicated stuff to keep the masses happy and learning - you start to buy your own press or the pres of those around you and with no one testing you, you do not work and you get sloppy. 

White Belt Wonder - Looking at the arts with rose colored glasses. Having some dream from a movie for reality. 

The Curious Belt - Always looking to train on those techniques that are beyond their reach, instead of what they should be doing.

The Questioner - Not just ask a question and move on but to engage the instructor and to make it a discussion so you and the instructor are spending time together. This is part of the ego issue and impression. Look at me I have the instructors attention. Also he is listening to me as I ask good questions and I get to keep going. Or the Why? of the two or three year old who is just asking to ask. They say they cannot get it unless the "UNDERSTAND" it. I explain. After the third or fourth time, I then ask them, " why is 1 + 1 = 2? There are three proofs I know of. One is an easy picture diagram and the other two are multiple page proofs, one being much longer than the other. I will accept any of the three. " They always pause and realize they cannot provide me the proof. Then I ask them but you learned the 1 + 1 = 2 by just doing it. Repeating it over and over. Correct? The same for multiplication. So right now if it does not make sense just do your homework and practice and we will work it over time. 

I then explain the number line for the proof. I say it seems obvious and easy, once you hear it. Yet, until you understand it the concept or are open to the concept it would not make sense. 

**

So my comment is that at any rank you will find good and bad examples. 

You will find good and bad people.

You will find all types of personalities.


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## KempoGuy06 (Apr 16, 2012)

i dont see this as there is only one brown belt at my school and he is forever wanting to work with lower ranks, simply because he wasnt to help everyone else

what i have noticed (and this has nothing to do with any particular rank) is there are people that are cocky because they have a certain amount of "talent" (for lack of a better word). 

These people (and if by chance you have not encountered them, count yourself as lucky) come up with a group of peers and they are one of the more skilled out of that group. Because of this they seem to possess a certain, lets say swagger, to how they handle themselves. they tend to try to be flashy,are over confident and most of the time uncontrollable. They pay little to no attention to who their opponent is, in a scenario like sparring and they will use more force than is warranted whether or not the other person is of the same rank or lower.

The other annoying part about this "type" of person is that they feel the need to go way harder with someone of a higher rank than is warranted, this is when they become dangerous. not only are they using to much force but they are trying to perform newer techniques at a speed much greater than what they are used to, because they feel like "they cant back down" for some unknown reason. this is dangerous for both them and their opponent because they are more likely to hurt themselves or their opponent.

i have notice this type of person. there is one that is particularly bad about this at my school I believe he has just achieved the rank of green belt and i pray that it has humbled him some

B

PS-this is all from my experience in SKK


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## oftheherd1 (Apr 16, 2012)

In the Hapkido I studied, no.  

My GM fostered a caring attitude in all students and assistant instructors.  To be considered worthy to help someone learn new techniques, or correctly perform already taught techniques was an honor, sort of a silent promotion.  Teaching lower belts is also a way to keep remembering the techniques you have already learned, and keeping them fine tuned.

We could run into stupid or cocky students, but they generally learned better or lost interest, or were otherwise weeded out.


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## Gentle Fist (May 28, 2012)

Our Brown belts at the club (judo) all seem humble to me...   Sorry you have that impression.


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