# First no gi session



## Headhunter (Dec 30, 2017)

So today I turned up for an open mat session and I was late because I had other stuff on but I got there and everyone was rolling no gi so I just jumped in and it was a lot of fun. Funnily enough I felt I was better at no gi than I am at gi. I even manage to to tap a blue belt a few times once with a standard arm bar, once with a inverted arm bar from the back and once with an omoplata. I mean I don't think that blue belt is the best there because I think he trains more in Mma than he does pure bjj and he's had a few months out and I was still dominated by another white belt with 4 stripes haha but it was a lot of fun. I'd like to do some more no gi but frankly my training schedule is so full that it wouldn't be a good idea. But still it was enjoyable


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## hoshin1600 (Dec 30, 2017)

i kinda wish there was a Tenth Planet near me. i would love to train it.


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## Headhunter (Dec 30, 2017)

hoshin1600 said:


> i kinda wish there was a Tenth Planet near me. i would love to train it.


That's the good thing about my place there's every type of class available. Gi and no gi, takedowns, Mma and strength and conditioning and there's open mat sessions every single day.if I ever have to cut down on training because of money issues I'd 100% just train there because its only 40 a month and you can do as many classes as you want so that place is the best value for my money.


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## hoshin1600 (Dec 30, 2017)

Headhunter said:


> That's the good thing about my place there's every type of class available. Gi and no gi, takedowns, Mma and strength and conditioning and there's open mat sessions every single day.if I ever have to cut down on training because of money issues I'd 100% just train there because its only 40 a month and you can do as many classes as you want so that place is the best value for my money.


wow team link which is near me is 120 a month and its not unlimited


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## Headhunter (Dec 30, 2017)

hoshin1600 said:


> wow team link which is near me is 120 a month and its not unlimited


Wow that's a lot no way I'd pay that but to be fair that's 40 pounds not dollars but still that's way more. I mean I only 75 a month for all my training including Muay Thai. I guess team link is a bigger name but still my place is Gracie Barra but I guess it's the name value as well


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## hoshin1600 (Dec 30, 2017)

Headhunter said:


> Wow that's a lot no way I'd pay that but to be fair that's 40 pounds not dollars but still that's way more. I mean I only 75 a month for all my training including Muay Thai. I guess team link is a bigger name but still my place is Gracie Barra but I guess it's the name value as well


thats normal around here and it always involves a 1 year contract


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## Headhunter (Dec 30, 2017)

hoshin1600 said:


> thats normal around here and it always involves a 1 year contract


Pfft screw that no way I'd ever train for that.


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## Charlemagne (Dec 30, 2017)

No gi is definitely fun to do.  I do weekly privates in GJJ and every other week is no gi.


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## hoshin1600 (Dec 30, 2017)

Headhunter said:


> Pfft screw that no way I'd ever train for that.


There was a bjj guy that opened up not far from me. 65 dollars a month with a contract. I was excited. Bought 2 new Venum  gis and showed up for a class and to sign on the dotted line....he was gone, closed up. He was only open for maybe 6 months.


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## geezer (Dec 30, 2017)

That does sound like a good rate. 

My association pushes contracts and high monthly rates. To keep them happy I had to raise my rates to $100 per month for three evenings a week, which is about the going rate, but at least I don't use contracts and I cover all testing fees myself. Oh, and if you pay for three months at a time, I knock off $50. But I don't tell the Assn. about that. 

Still, after rent, insurance, the monthly association dues and memberships, and testing fees (covered out of my pocket), I barely make enough to cover my own training expenses. This year I may actually lose money. How people actually make _a profit_ at this without teaching a bunch of kids is beyond me. But then, I'm no businessman. If I were rich I'd probably teach for free. If nothing else, it keeps me training. After all. if _you're_ the teacher, you can't just stay home 'cause you feel beat at the end of the day!


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## Headhunter (Dec 30, 2017)

hoshin1600 said:


> There was a bjj guy that opened up not far from me. 65 dollars a month with a contract. I was excited. Bought 2 new Venum  gis and showed up for a class and to sign on the dotted line....he was gone, closed up. He was only open for maybe 6 months.


That's why I'd never do contract. Heck I never even did monthly payments until recently and I realised it worked out a lot cheaper than paying drop in fees which were 7 pounds a lesson so If I trained 3 times a week I'd be paying 22 pounds a week so it's much better off paying the 40


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## Andrew Green (Dec 30, 2017)

hoshin1600 said:


> There was a bjj guy that opened up not far from me. 65 dollars a month with a contract. I was excited. Bought 2 new Venum  gis and showed up for a class and to sign on the dotted line....he was gone, closed up. He was only open for maybe 6 months.



Honestly I'd expect anyone trying to run a full time location at $65 / month to close up pretty soon, the math just won't work.  He probably needed 100 students just to pay his overhead with little advertising and not taking home any money at all.  I know with where I am $65 / month is completely unrealistic, unless you take a health club attitude and try to have half your members paying but never actually showing up that is.  But at pretty much any size the expenses will overshoot the money coming in at those rates.

I know the tendency from the outside is too like cheap rates, but if the rates can't support the business it doesn't really help anyone.


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## Andrew Green (Dec 30, 2017)

Headhunter said:


> That's why I'd never do contract. Heck I never even did monthly payments until recently and I realised it worked out a lot cheaper than paying drop in fees which were 7 pounds a lesson so If I trained 3 times a week I'd be paying 22 pounds a week so it's much better off paying the 40



Any contract should void itself if the business shuts down operations


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Dec 30, 2017)

Headhunter said:


> Wow that's a lot no way I'd pay that but to be fair that's 40 pounds not dollars but still that's way more. I mean I only 75 a month for all my training including Muay Thai. I guess team link is a bigger name but still my place is Gracie Barra but I guess it's the name value as well





Headhunter said:


> Pfft screw that no way I'd ever train for that.



That's not a lot to me, and sometimes you don't really have a choice if you want to train. Where I'm currently training, I pay $150 a month. That's actually cheaper than the dojo I left in July(?), and also cheaper than a decent number of the other places near me.


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## Headhunter (Dec 30, 2017)

kempodisciple said:


> That's not a lot to me, and sometimes you don't really have a choice if you want to train. Where I'm currently training, I pay $150 a month. That's actually cheaper than the dojo I left in July(?), and also cheaper than a decent number of the other places near me.


Then I'd simply not train as I can't afford that


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## geezer (Dec 30, 2017)

Headhunter said:


> Then I'd simply not train as I can't afford that



Rates often reflect the varying standards of living in different localities. So, if you lived in a place  where all the schools charged that much, you might well be making enough to afford their rates.


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## Gerry Seymour (Dec 31, 2017)

Headhunter said:


> So today I turned up for an open mat session and I was late because I had other stuff on but I got there and everyone was rolling no gi so I just jumped in and it was a lot of fun. Funnily enough I felt I was better at no gi than I am at gi. I even manage to to tap a blue belt a few times once with a standard arm bar, once with a inverted arm bar from the back and once with an omoplata. I mean I don't think that blue belt is the best there because I think he trains more in Mma than he does pure bjj and he's had a few months out and I was still dominated by another white belt with 4 stripes haha but it was a lot of fun. I'd like to do some more no gi but frankly my training schedule is so full that it wouldn't be a good idea. But still it was enjoyable


I sometimes forget how different gi/no-gi can be in grappling. I have to think back to my Judo days. In NGA, we don't tend to use the gi very often in techniques (because we can't expect that kind of help), except when specifically looking at how to capitalize on some types of clothing, or how to defend from someone using clothing against us. In Judo, of course, they use the gi a lot for grip and access to grip points that don't otherwise exist. So the only time the gi is a factor is when we're fully (or at least vigorously) resisting each other, because then we'll use whatever we have (including their gi). My quickest reminder of the difference is when I get on the mats with a BJJer or Judo player, wearing my gi. They quickly remind me.


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## Gerry Seymour (Dec 31, 2017)

geezer said:


> Rates often reflect the varying standards of living in different localities. So, if you lived in a place  where all the schools charged that much, you might well be making enough to afford their rates.


Agreed. KD is in New York. Prices there are different than prices down here. It's not common to find a school charging more than $100 down here, and not too hard to find something closer to $50 (my current fee).


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## Headhunter (Jan 1, 2018)

gpseymour said:


> I sometimes forget how different gi/no-gi can be in grappling. I have to think back to my Judo days. In NGA, we don't tend to use the gi very often in techniques (because we can't expect that kind of help), except when specifically looking at how to capitalize on some types of clothing, or how to defend from someone using clothing against us. In Judo, of course, they use the gi a lot for grip and access to grip points that don't otherwise exist. So the only time the gi is a factor is when we're fully (or at least vigorously) resisting each other, because then we'll use whatever we have (including their gi). My quickest reminder of the difference is when I get on the mats with a BJJer or Judo player, wearing my gi. They quickly remind me.


I prefer no gi In some ways as there's less to defend with collar chokes etc. that's why when I watch the old ufc events I don't know why some insisted on wearing a gi especially knowing they'd be fighting Gracie its just giving him more weapon and he did actually win some by collar choke


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## Gerry Seymour (Jan 1, 2018)

Headhunter said:


> I prefer no gi In some ways as there's less to defend with collar chokes etc. that's why when I watch the old ufc events I don't know why some insisted on wearing a gi especially knowing they'd be fighting Gracie its just giving him more weapon and he did actually win some by collar choke


I don't get it, either. I mean, it's what they're comfortable in (no way I'd be comfortable in a pair of vale tudo shorts and nothing else, so I'm pretty sure that's why they chose it. But I don't know why the practical concern of the competition didn't override that.


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## JR 137 (Jan 1, 2018)

Headhunter said:


> I prefer no gi In some ways as there's less to defend with collar chokes etc. that's why when I watch the old ufc events I don't know why some insisted on wearing a gi especially knowing they'd be fighting Gracie its just giving him more weapon and he did actually win some by collar choke


When the UFC was new, I remember reading that they wanted people to wear their style’s traditional uniform.  They didn’t require it, but they wanted that visual to reinforce the style vs style thing.

They asked a wrestler to wear a singlet, but he refused.  He said he didn’t want to give Gracie an easy weapon where he could wrap the shoulder strap from it around his throat.

I could be wrong, but doesn’t wearing your own gi give you a bit of an advantage in that you can grab your own sleeve during some chokes and the like for a little extra leverage?  I’m quite sure that advantage is easily outweighed by the fact that your opponent can grab it too though.

Regardless, in the earliest days, they were selling the style he style aspect of the event.  What better way to reinforce that than having gis, wrestling singlets/trunks, boxing shorts, etc.


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## Gerry Seymour (Jan 1, 2018)

JR 137 said:


> When the UFC was new, I remember reading that they wanted people to wear their style’s traditional uniform.  They didn’t require it, but they wanted that visual to reinforce the style vs style thing.
> 
> They asked a wrestler to wear a singlet, but he refused.  He said he didn’t want to give Gracie an easy weapon where he could wrap the shoulder strap from it around his throat.
> 
> ...


There is some advantage to the gi - there were things I learned in Judo that used your own gi as a grip point. But there are far more that use your opponent's gi. Even for folks not trained to it, a gi is much easier to grab than a sweaty upper arm or forearm.


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## Charlemagne (Jan 2, 2018)

Headhunter said:


> I prefer no gi In some ways as there's less to defend with collar chokes etc. that's why when I watch the old ufc events I don't know why some insisted on wearing a gi especially knowing they'd be fighting Gracie its just giving him more weapon and he did actually win some by collar choke



In the first one, they had simply never seen it done that way, and after that, they were simply unable or unwilling to believe that they could be dominated in that way by someone with only rudimentary striking skills.  They honestly believed that they could control the distance and prevent themselves from ending up on the ground.  Heck, for many years after that, people still believed it, as evidenced by the many such articles in rags such as BB mag, etc.  Double heck, some people still believe it today.


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## Charlemagne (Jan 2, 2018)

JR 137 said:


> I could be wrong, but doesn’t wearing your own gi give you a bit of an advantage in that you can grab your own sleeve during some chokes and the like for a little extra leverage?  I’m quite sure that advantage is easily outweighed by the fact that your opponent can grab it too though.



It can, and it works both ways as you noted.  I would suggest that it is even more so today than back then, given the way that that the gi game has evolved in recent years.


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