# Significance of gender with School Management



## Ceicei (Aug 9, 2007)

I've been thinking about this for quite a while.  

Someday, I plan to open a martial arts school.  On more than one occasion, I've been given strong advice to always be sure to get a very good "male business partner".  I've been told this does not necessarily mean that a female cannot run a martial arts school alone, the so-called "reality" is the perception out there in society.  Martial Arts is still considered a "male domain".  For a female to own and run a school alone, some people may question her competency.  They say that in light of this "reality", the success of the school may be better if there is a business partner who is male.

My main concern, however, is having the presence of a male business partner would probably mean more people would give preference to him rather than the female school owner, even if the decisions made were by her.

It does put a damper on my ambitions though.

- Ceicei


----------



## terryl965 (Aug 9, 2007)

CC I would not believe the hype people are saying, I have found out over the last five years that it is my wife people look to before me, if anything I probaly hinder her for being more successful. Stick to your gun and if you want a business partner choose one for what they have and not there gender. My.02 worth


----------



## Kacey (Aug 9, 2007)

Granting that I run a class rather than own a school - I've been instructing TKD independent of a male partner (although my current assistant is male) for about 15 years.  I wouldn't let the lack of a male partner stop you.


----------



## MBuzzy (Aug 9, 2007)

Ceicei,

I urge you to take a look at this site...http://centralohiomartialarts.com/
This school and pro shop is owned and operated by Master Laura Clements.  I am currently taking Haidong Gumdo with her, but she teaches and is ranked in a myriad of styles.  She is also very high ranking in some of the international organizations - as the ONLY WOMAN.  

This is not to say that you have to be a super human and be a 12 dan in 8 different styles to accomplish it....but that it can be done and can be VERY successful.  Master Clements has a HUGE school and classes are PACKED on most nights.  Her mother helps her with running the school, but it is just her.  

So the bottom line is...don't be discouraged!  AT ALL!  It has so much more to do with your ambition, drive, and motivation than it does your sex.  I have seen many many high ranking women in the military as well and some command more respect than most of the men.  So basically, if a person thinks that they NEED a male partner, then they are right.  If you know that you don't....you're even more right.


----------



## Carol (Aug 9, 2007)

The highest ranked female in EPAK is the venerable Ms. Doreen Cogliandro.

She heads up one of the most popular Kenpo schools in New England.  I live less than 20 miles from her school and I don't hear folks doubting her abilities.

Being male does NOT mean one has credibility, nor does it mean that one will be immune from criticism or trash talking.  Guys talk smack about each other. Guys diss each other.  

You may have someone off the street walk away because of your gender. You may also have someone walk away because of your skin color, or your location, or schedule, or because someone doesn't like the art or because the McDojo on the other side of town is promising a Black Belt in 2 years, yada yada yada.  You won't be able to close every customer.

When going in to business, don't focus on what you are *not*.  Customers won't buy what you don't have!   

Instead, focus on what you *are*.  

Good luck, and good fortune!


----------



## bushidomartialarts (Aug 9, 2007)

Ceicei,

There will be a segment of the population who don't train at your school because you're a woman.  Just keep in mind two things.

a) It will be a small segment.

b) You don't want those jerks training at your school anyway.  Let 'em go scratch their balls and belch with the other cromagnons down at your local MMA school.

There are many successful dojos run by women.  I can't wait to congratulate you when one of them is yours.


----------



## Andrew Green (Aug 9, 2007)

bushidomartialarts said:


> Let 'em go scratch their balls and belch with the other cromagnons down at your local MMA school.



Hey! 

First of all let me point out that scratching ones balls while wearing a cup is not an easy task, it is a well tuned skill and one of the requirements of the style.  Most people can't hack it, traditional styles have dropped the practice as part of there watering down process, selling out there art IMO.

Anyways, to the original question.

Perception is always a issue in any system.  The person in charge sets the ton and the ton determines the students.  The way some places are run having a female head instructor might not work, but other ways might make it work better.  

I think you can safely keep the dream


----------



## Ceicei (Aug 10, 2007)

bushidomartialarts said:


> Ceicei,
> 
> There will be a segment of the population who don't train at your school because you're a woman.  Just keep in mind two things.
> 
> ...



Thank you!  Your post is funny and actually made me laugh!

- Ceicei


----------



## Ceicei (Aug 10, 2007)

MBuzzy said:


> Ceicei,
> 
> I urge you to take a look at this site...http://centralohiomartialarts.com/
> This school and pro shop is owned and operated by Master Laura Clements.  I am currently taking Haidong Gumdo with her, but she teaches and is ranked in a myriad of styles.  She is also very high ranking in some of the international organizations - as the ONLY WOMAN.
> ...



I appreciate your link!  Thank you.

- Ceicei


----------



## Flying Crane (Aug 10, 2007)

my capoeira teacher is a woman, who is extremely skilled and talented, and her business/school partner is also a woman.  They have run a very solid school for a bunch of years.

check out www.abada.org


----------



## Rich Parsons (Aug 10, 2007)

Ceicei said:


> I've been thinking about this for quite a while.
> 
> Someday, I plan to open a martial arts school. On more than one occasion, I've been given strong advice to always be sure to get a very good "male business partner". I've been told this does not necessarily mean that a female cannot run a martial arts school alone, the so-called "reality" is the perception out there in society. Martial Arts is still considered a "male domain". For a female to own and run a school alone, some people may question her competency. They say that in light of this "reality", the success of the school may be better if there is a business partner who is male.
> 
> ...




If "YOU" want a business then open a business. 

If you have a good instructor under you that is male and works well with you then that is good. The reason is it would allow for more coverage of classes. If they were a good instructor and Female then that is good just a well. Those that would only train with a MALE instructor might not be the students you are looking for. 

If you have a good male business manager this is good as well. They can run the business and handle the day to day operations. But as above if they are female it is just as good.


----------



## bluemtn (Aug 10, 2007)

Gender has nothing to do with how well one does business.  It all depends on the person, to be honest.  I say go for opening your own school, and look for a business partner-  one *you* find to suit your needs best, whether male or female!  Best wishes on it!


----------



## IcemanSK (Aug 16, 2007)

I want to encourage you to do all you can to make your school go well. I think you'd be a great school owner, CC! As others have said, the MA world is a male dominated one. That doesn't mean you can't do it. It just means you have your work cut out for you. Many have listed successful female school owners. I'd include Dawn Barnes in that list. 

I'd encourage you to talk to woman who are doing it (& doing it well) for their thoughts. It can only help you.

Go For it, CC!:ultracool


----------



## thekuntawman (Aug 27, 2007)

you dont need a man in the school to teach, not even to convince people you know the art. are you focus more for kids or adults? do you fight?

please see this website, www.taichi-arts.com/index.shtml, the master's name is bow sim mark (btw, her most famous student is donnie yen, who done many movies and is her son), she is known as the "queen of kung fu" since the 70s, when people are less educated then they are now. she stands on her skills, as any teacher should. my advice for any person who wants to be a teacher/school owner, male or female, is to put more of your effort to developing your skill, because no one can argue against it. there is always going to be ignorant people who have hang us, like race, age, language, price or religion, and sex. but when your skill is a mountain over the next two schools, you dont have to worry about your competition.


----------



## temagami (Jan 21, 2008)

My instructor is also the owner of the gym. Her name is Linda Squires and she's 61 years old.  She can out situp, out pushup and out run any man on the mat.  She teacher Jiu-Jitsu out of her school and if any male steps out of line (myself included) she cracks the whip.  No problems.  Also, in my home town (where I don't train) is a great Shoto-Kan Karate school; owned and operated by a woman.... but I'm talking Canada here - perhaps we don't' have the same hang-ups as people in the south


----------



## ArmorOfGod (Jan 22, 2008)

Cecei,
You needing a male business partner is complete poppycock.  One of the above posters said it right when he said that the people that won't come are the ones that you don't want.
This could be taken the wrong (or right) way, but you being a woman head instructor would make your school unique in a market flooded with carbon-copies.  I hate to say it, but you may want to capitalize on what makes you different - being a capable woman martial artist. I am very sure there are women who are scared off by men instructors and with you, they would finally have an alternative.  Then, there are guys like me who don't care one way or another and you appeal to me as well.
Make sure when you advertise, you place a big cheesy picture of you on the ad.  That would make you different than the other local schools.  Also, there is the obvious and you should make sure you give plenty of free self-defense seminars at local libraries and churches and tip off the newspapers and tv stations that you are doing it (that's what I do).  Go to my site and you will see how many times I have been in the paper for free.  I don't buy ads, I create events to be covered by the paper.
Now that I have written that, I know Kacey will want to rip my head off.
;-)
Like I said, capitalize on what makes you unique.

AoG


----------



## Ceicei (Jan 22, 2008)

Thank you.  I am still on track working towards my goal to own/run my school.

- Ceicei


----------



## amyj (Sep 4, 2008)

Check out the National Women's Martial Arts Federation - nwmaf.org - and the Association of Women Martial Arts Instructors - awmai.org .  You'll get connected to a large community of women martial artists, many of whom own their own schools.  Off the top of my head:
Michelle McVadon in Seattle - Seven Star Kung Fu
Sonya Richardson and Jen Resnick in Oakland, California - Hand to Hand Kajukenbo
Kore Grate in Minneapolis - Feminist Eclectic Martial Arts
Sherry McGregor in Florida - McGregor's Martial Arts
Janet Aalfs in Northampton, Mass - Valley Women's Martial Arts
Gabrielle Rolloff in Germany (I don't know the name of her school, but she's one of the 7 masters of Tapi Tapi)
Nancy Lanoue and Sarah Ludden in Chicago - Thousand Waves Martial Arts
Joy Williamson in Austin, Texas - Sun Dragon Martial Arts (my dojo).

Some of these schools are women-only, most are co-ed.  Many of them are around 20 years old.   Some are non-profit, some are for profit.


----------



## celtic_crippler (Sep 4, 2008)

Ceicei said:


> I've been thinking about this for quite a while.
> 
> Someday, I plan to open a martial arts school. On more than one occasion, I've been given strong advice to always be sure to get a very good "male business partner". I've been told this does not necessarily mean that a female cannot run a martial arts school alone, the so-called "reality" is the perception out there in society. Martial Arts is still considered a "male domain". For a female to own and run a school alone, some people may question her competency. They say that in light of this "reality", the success of the school may be better if there is a business partner who is male.
> 
> ...


 
In most cases perception is reality. BUT...there are sucessful female school owners. 

IMHO, I'd say don't let anything stand between you and your dreams. If you want to own and run a school, you can do it. 

Gender has nothing to do with your ability to teach. Actually, more parents may be more receptive to a female teaching their kids than a male. 

Would a male partner hurt? No...but that doesn't mean you can't be successful on your own. 

I've "known" you on the forums for a few years now...you are definately competent and knowledgable. I feel that you could be successful with your own school if you really wanted it. 

You can do it if that's really what you want. You have the "know-how" so it's basically up to you as to whether you are successful or not.


----------



## arnisador (Sep 5, 2008)

(Hmmmm, old thread!)



Ceicei said:


> Someday, I plan to open a martial arts school.  On more than one occasion, I've been given strong advice to always be sure to get a very good "male business partner".  I've been told this does not necessarily mean that a female cannot run a martial arts school alone, the so-called "reality" is the perception out there in society.  Martial Arts is still considered a "male domain".



All things being equal, I'm sure there's some effect like this. But it cuts both ways. The teenage boys will want to train under a like role model and the teenage girls will want to train under a like role model. It happens in all walks of life, which is one reason why staff diversity is so important in schools.

I haven't heard people put such an emphasis on it before but since the martial arts appeal disproportionately to a male audience I have to tell you that I see the logic. Many people, of both genders, still prefer a male physician because that's what they associate with competence at a subconscious level even if they'd reject that as bias at a conscious level. Why does Hooters like to hire female waitstaff? Gender and perception can affect your business, and you are indeed talking about a _business _now. Business studies have repeatedly shown that gender/attractiveness/dress matter. For college profs., being athletic and attractive gives about a 20% boost in teaching evaluations for either gender.

So, I don't think there's any point in complaining about the obvious. Men will, _on average_, want Carmen Electra serving them beer and John Rambo teaching them self-defense, and they're likely to be the bigger part of your clientèle.



> My main concern, however, is having the presence of a male business partner would probably mean more people would give preference to him rather than the female school owner, even if the decisions made were by her.



I can certainly imagine that. On the other hand, it might be more appealing to parents of younger kids to have a female instructor.

Don't give in. The gender thing matters _when all other factors are equal_. Will they be? Are you a better-than-average instructor? Will you have a better facility, more pleasant training environment, better prices, better training? Do you have word-of-mouth in your favor? There's probably a lot of truth to what people have said--many of those you don't get, you wouldn't have wanted. I'd ignore this nonsense and focus on a good business plan--pick a good location and maybe even a niche clientèle that would especially appreciate what you have to offer, then advertise, advertise, advertise.


----------



## goodwrench_mc (Sep 12, 2008)

Carol Kaur said:


> The highest ranked female in EPAK is the venerable Ms. Doreen Cogliandro.
> 
> She heads up one of the most popular Kenpo schools in New England. I live less than 20 miles from her school and I don't hear folks doubting her abilities.
> 
> ...


 
One of Ms. Doreen Cogliandro's female students is running a school in NH. 4th Degree Black Belt Erin O'Neil's school is expanding into a larger facility. She is an excellent teacher and her school is growing. Her Positive attitude and hard work shows that gender doesn't matter.
http://www.kenposites.com/epkk/index.cfm?


----------



## tko4u (Sep 20, 2008)

its all about who the person is, not what gender they are


----------



## hkfuie (Nov 2, 2008)

CC, 

I don't know you like the other posters do, but I can tell you that I have been teaching for a few years and at first I thought I may have that same problem, but it never materialized.  I have had plent of men and boys as students.  A few times from teenage boys I get a little reticent attitude at the beginning.  But if they come to class for a while, that all changes.  Good luck to you.  I look forward to hearing about it when you make the leap.

I saw someone mentioned NWMAF and AWMAI.  I used to attend Pacific Association of Women Martial Artists trining camps and plan to do so again next year.  Some women of AWMAI go to both NWMAF and PAWMA, so I have met some of the NWMAF and AWMAI people.  I can tell you I have had great experiences going to the training camps and meeting the women involved.  I think they are a great support system for women in the martial arts.  Go to just one event and I think you will be amazed and inspired by the women you meet.  

As an instructor, the fact that I am a woman is no hindrance in my mind anymore.  And as another poster said, I have been told quite a few times by parents that they feel more comfortable that their child's instructor is a woman.

Again, good luck to you.


----------

