# Inside Kung Fu Mag.



## JadeDragon3 (Mar 31, 2009)

Inside Kunf Fu Magazine has gone down in quality in my opinion. They now feature more MMA articles than they do KF articles. They even have a Gracie that writes a monthly column. If I wanted to read about grappling/mma/bjj I would buy another magazine such as BB Mag.. What do you guys/gals think of this increase of articles on grappling/bjj/mma????


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## exile (Mar 31, 2009)

Just a bit of commiseration from an outsiderthe same thing is happening in TKD. Not that _TKD Times_ was ever great, but they _did_ occasionally have some articles amidst all the advertising, 'tied-in' (to the advertising) features, personality fluff and so onthe first thing I ever saw by Simon O'Neil was in there. But a recent issue was largely devoted to MMA, and the amount of space they've been devoting to it has been steadily increasing. 

All magazines these days, particularly those which are vehicles for advertising primarily, are in trouble. They'll go wherever the reader base is, because that's what drives the advertising fees they can charge. These days especially, they'll do anything to turn a profit. Look for the trend to continue, but _even more so._


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## JadeDragon3 (Mar 31, 2009)

exile said:


> Just a bit of commiseration from an outsiderthe same thing is happening in TKD. Not that _TKD Times_ was ever great, but they _did_ occasionally have some articles amidst all the advertising, 'tied-in' (to the advertising) features, personality fluff and so onthe first thing I ever saw by Simon O'Neil was in there. But a recent issue was largely devoted to MMA, and the amount of space they've been devoting to it has been steadily increasing.
> 
> All magazines these days, particularly those which are vehicles for advertising primarily, are in trouble. They'll go wherever the reader base is, because that's what drives the advertising fees they can charge. These days especially, they'll do anything to turn a profit. Look for the trend to continue, but _even more so._


 
IKF Magazine has gotten so bad that I'm thinking about not re-newing my subscription when the time comes, and I've been getting the magazine for 10 years.  I hate to see everyone jump on a band wagon or fad.  Sell outs is what they are.  Off with thier heads.


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## punisher73 (Mar 31, 2009)

I agree, there is another kung fu magazine out there I think it is kung fu/taichi (or qigong). but it usually focuses on good kung fu skills and historical articles.

I have seen it at Barnes and Noble when I have been there and it seems alot better than IKF in terms of content.

Here is a link to their website
http://kungfuqigong.com/index.php

PS: they also have a forum


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## exile (Mar 31, 2009)

JadeDragon3 said:


> IKF Magazine has gotten so bad that I'm thinking about not re-newing my subscription when the time comes, and I've been getting the magazine for 10 years.  I hate to see everyone jump on a band wagon or fad.  Sell outs is what they are.  Off with thier heads.



I stopped subscribing to _TKDTimes_ even before they went down that MMA road... a lot of MA magazines have been getting lighter and lighter on content for years.


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## blindsage (Mar 31, 2009)

I gave up on IKF a few years ago when they started moving that way.

I still like the quality of the Journal Asian of Martial Arts, even if it's a little more 'scholarly', and doesn't show nearly enough photos of technique.


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## Jade Tigress (Mar 31, 2009)

I used to subscribe to Inside Kung Fu magazine but haven't seen an issue in a couple years now. Sad to hear the turn it's taking.


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## newtothe dark (Mar 31, 2009)

JadeDragon3 said:


> IKF Magazine has gotten so bad that I'm thinking about not re-newing my subscription when the time comes, and I've been getting the magazine for 10 years. I hate to see everyone jump on a band wagon or fad. Sell outs is what they are. Off with thier heads.


 
Yeah next thing we know there will be Ninja magazines again lol Wait I loved those and have them all I must be crazy hehe


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## JadecloudAlchemist (Mar 31, 2009)

Kungfu Taichi magazine is great they give you free DVD's!! The articles are pretty good depending on who is writing. Inside Kung fu magazine I don't really enjoy reading but I practice internal styles so I enjoy Kungfu Taichi more.


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## Drac (Mar 31, 2009)

I stopped reading IKF many years ago as some of the articles were so Gawd awful..


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## arnisador (Mar 31, 2009)

I'd like to see a good general martial arts mag. again...JAMA is very good but not what I'm thinking of, and Classical Fighting Arts is excellent but not general-purpose.


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## ggg214 (Mar 31, 2009)

in mainland of china, it's difficult to find a kung fu magzine in public magezine selling store.


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## grydth (Mar 31, 2009)

ggg214 said:


> in mainland of china, it's difficult to find a kung fu magzine in public magezine selling store.



I'd be interested in what you do have available in China for martial arts magazines.  English or Chinese (or other) languages?  Do you have any on Tai Chi/Qi Gong?  Are your magazines more scholarly or are they just advertisements? What countries are they from?

ggg, I think you can see that many of us in the USA are unhappy with our martial arts magazines..... too commercial, questionable scholarship, favoritism...... So, what do you have?

Same questions for other forum members living outside the USA...


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## LuckyKBoxer (Mar 31, 2009)

This kind of cracks me up a bit.
I mean people are saying the magazine is a sell out... its a magazine, a business, its whole goal is to sell magazines. If the traditional martial arts world is not buying, and MMA is what do you think is going to happen?
I mean really /shrug.. I get the magazine as well, actually get about 9 magazines all geared towards the martial arts, and every single one of them is either heavily geared towards MMA, or has increased the MMA exposure drastically. Of course, the advertisements are heavily being paid by MMA related companies, the majority of new martial arts students are MMA students, one of the few martial arts businesses that is not in decline are MMA related... MAIA and NAPMA reported that thousands of martial arts schools have closed down in the last two years.
Seriously, if people want a magazine to switch, or stick to a certain subject matter, then they need to prod them to do so by a.telling them, b. subscribing and having their like minded friends subscribe, c. Threaten to cancel their subscriptions, d. advertise their specific art, or e. write articles specific to their art to submit.
Other then that its going to be either make your own magazine as a labor of love and plan on losing money, or understand how the magazine needs to run like a business.


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## exile (Mar 31, 2009)

LuckyKBoxer said:


> This kind of cracks me up a bit.
> *I mean people are saying the magazine is a sell out... its a magazine, a business, its whole goal is to sell magazines. If the traditional martial arts world is not buying, and MMA is what do you think is going to happen?*



I don't see anyone saying that a magazine shouldn't be run like a business. Would you care to quote a single post in this thread so far that's saying that? 

What people are saying is that the business model of the magazines they've read in the past are leading those magazines to publish content that's substandard in quality, or based on current commercially dominant trends in the MAs, or both, and therefore they're voting with their wallets and no longer reading those magazines. And this 'cracks [you] up'...


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## arnisador (Mar 31, 2009)

LuckyKBoxer said:


> This kind of cracks me up a bit.
> I mean people are saying the magazine is a sell out... its a magazine, a business, its whole goal is to sell magazines.



I suppose it's unrealistic to expect _Time_ or _Newsweek_ in our little niche area, but we're getting something between _Us Weekly_ and the _National Enquirer_ instead. As mentioned above, if what they turn out is low-quality then they can't be surprised if people don't choose to buy it. A bit more integrity and higher standards could actually pay off for them.


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## exile (Mar 31, 2009)

arnisador said:


> I suppose it's unrealistic to expect _Time_ or _Newsweek_ in our little niche area, but we're getting something between _Us Weekly_ and the _National Enquirer_ instead. As mentioned above, if what they turn out is low-quality then they can't be surprised if people don't choose to buy it. *A bit more integrity and higher standards could actually pay off for them.*



Absolutely, Arni.

Think of the logic of the situation: the mags are basing their content primarily on pleasing their advertisers, by featuring those advertisers in the content text. After a while, there will be virtually no distinction between the advertising and the content. But the production costs of the magazine will not be reduced; the demand for very high quality production values will force these mags to ever higher prices. Would _you_ be willing to pay close to $10 an issue (because it's getting close to that) for a magazine whose content was 90% advertising or advertising tie-in?? Especially when you factor in the elephant in the living room: the availability of enormous amounts of online information, most of it free, andin the case of _IKF_, _TKDT_, BB and several othersof at least as reliable quality, on average, as the high circ mags,  and significantly _better_ in many cases. I don't know about KF, but for TKD there are whole textbooks and histories downloadable for free on the Web. For Karate, Iain Abernethy's website alone gives you access to just under one hundred extermely high quality articles on all aspects of karate, by people like Lawrence Kane, Jamie Clubb and Stuart Anslow, as well as Abernethy himself, along with several complete e-books on bunkai for the Pinan Kata, street-practical application of Karate, and on and on. Authors of books maintain blog sites and chat boards where often quite outstanding experts in the field post. Any form/pattern you can think of has been performed at several levels of quality on YouTube....  and then, of course, there's Martial Talk, the jewel in the MA internet crown.  So what incentive do readers have to go along with the crass output of short-sighted business models in magazine publishing that are twenty-five years behind current technology and ignore the gunbarrel pointing at their faces: _readers no longer need most magazines to get the information they want_?? Sifting through the rubble piles on the internet for the good stuff is still way cheaper, and a lot more fun, than paying six bucks or more for what, more and more, amount to product catalogues.  

Sure, run magazines as business, but be smart enough to realize that if you wind up publishing mostly advertising and contentless puff pieces, _no one is goiing to want your product._


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## Carol (Apr 1, 2009)

exile said:


> Would _you_ be willing to pay close to $10 an issue (because it's getting close to that) for a magazine whose content was 90% advertising or advertising tie-in??



To heck with that!

A far better value for your dollar is a supporting membership to MartialTalk.com.  More info than a magazine, less advertising, and YOU have a say in the content.  

Lets do our best to keep the lights on here, folks.  We've got it REALLY good.  :asian:


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## LuckyKBoxer (Apr 1, 2009)

exile said:


> I don't see anyone saying that a magazine shouldn't be run like a business. Would you care to quote a single post in this thread so far that's saying that?
> 
> What people are saying is that the business model of the magazines they've read in the past are leading those magazines to publish content that's substandard in quality, or based on current commercially dominant trends in the MAs, or both, and therefore they're voting with their wallets and no longer reading those magazines. And this 'cracks [you] up'...


 
I guess you missed my point. I never said anyone made any comment about how they should be run.
My point is that alot of the people complaining on this thread are complaining because the content is shifting to MMA related articles, advertisements, and columnists, as opposed to traditional martial arts, in this case kung fu.
The information is not any more substandard then when it was strictly kung fu, or whatever other martial art, the problem is its MMA, which does not appeal to them. These magazines have for many years now been almost exclusively advertising pieces, either the adds themselves, or the articles which in fact are just multi page advertising pieces.

What cracks me up, is that people complain about the trend and complain that its... a mix of national enquirer and us weekly as opposed to... um newsweek and time..or as many more put it, that the content is getting worse..
seriously I have a majority of the IKF magazines minus a few, and the kung fu articles and stories have been on the ridiculous side for a long time now. 
I think the trend in these magazines are a mirror of whats happening to traditional martial arts studios.
In regards to magazines though, Its been a long time since I read through any of the martial arts magazines and thought that it was a quality piece of work. There are occasional flashes of great information, or interviews, technique, or other article, but its rare.


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## LuckyKBoxer (Apr 1, 2009)

exile said:


> Absolutely, Arni.
> 
> Sure, run magazines as business, but be smart enough to realize that if you wind up publishing mostly advertising and contentless puff pieces, _no one is goiing to want your product._


 
I guess the question that needs to be answered is... 
What is the trend in annual subscriptions for Inside Kung fu magazine?
If their subcription base is decreasing then you are all right on the money here.... If they are increasing their base, then what would you have them do?


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## Jade Tigress (Apr 1, 2009)

LuckyKBoxer said:


> I guess the question that needs to be answered is...
> What is the trend in annual subscriptions for Inside Kung fu magazine?
> If their subcription base is decreasing then you are all right on the money here.... If they are increasing their base, then what would you have them do?



Change the name to Inside MMA Magazine. If I'm interested in MMA and buy a magazine called Inside MMA, and then the content is geared towards Kung Fu, I might get a little miffed.


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## Drac (Apr 1, 2009)

I wish I had not buried my old back issues so I could post one of their past asinine articles called Sex and the Martial Arts...You all would throw up in your mouths..


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## LuckyKBoxer (Apr 1, 2009)

Jade Tigress said:


> Change the name to Inside MMA Magazine. If I'm interested in MMA and buy a magazine called Inside MMA, and then the content is geared towards Kung Fu, I might get a little miffed.


 
 Fair enough, but how many kung fu studios have added in some aspects of MMA to supplement their training, or even draw in new customers?
I know of quite a few, so is it a problem with the magazines integrity, or is it a symptom of a bigger issue?


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## JadeDragon3 (Apr 1, 2009)

newtothe dark said:


> Yeah next thing we know there will be Ninja magazines again lol Wait I loved those and have them all I must be crazy hehe


 

I used to get that magazine.  That was back in the day.  You can get them on e-bay believe it or not. Remember when they would have articles on the ninja summit?


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## Jade Tigress (Apr 1, 2009)

LuckyKBoxer said:


> Fair enough, but how many kung fu studios have added in some aspects of MMA to supplement their training, or even draw in new customers?
> I know of quite a few,



Hmmmm....that's interesting. I don't know of any. I don't doubt they are some out there, but the traditional kung fu schools *I* know of have not adopted *any* MMA aspects. 



LuckyKBoxer said:


> so is it a problem with the magazines integrity, or is it a symptom of a bigger issue?



Good question. I don't know.


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## arnisador (Apr 1, 2009)

LuckyKBoxer said:


> What is the trend in annual subscriptions for Inside Kung fu magazine?



Most magazines are having issues there. Subscriptions are generally down and have been sliding for a while due to the continued rise of the Internet.


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## JadeDragon3 (Apr 1, 2009)

LuckyKBoxer said:


> Fair enough, but how many kung fu studios have added in some aspects of MMA to supplement their training, or even draw in new customers?
> I know of quite a few, so is it a problem with the magazines integrity, or is it a symptom of a bigger issue?


 
I know of only one school that has both mma and kung fu.  If a kung fu school teaches traditional kung fu and is of quality instruction then it shouldn't have to resort to teaching mma.  There are plenty of techniques within kung fu to deal with grapplers. No need for kung fu schools to jump on the mma bandwagon unless they truely like grappling. But to teach it because you think kung fu isn't effective against grapplers then maybe you don't know real kung fu.  That last comment was not intended towards anyone specific (luckyboxer), just in general.


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## clfsean (Apr 1, 2009)

JadeDragon3 said:


> I know of only one school that has both mma and kung fu.  If a kung fu school teaches traditional kung fu and is of quality instruction then it shouldn't have to resort to teaching mma.  There are plenty of techniques within kung fu to deal with grapplers. No need for kung fu schools to jump on the mma bandwagon unless they truely like grappling. But to teach it because you think kung fu isn't effective against grapplers then maybe you don't know real kung fu.  That last comment was not intended towards anyone specific (luckyboxer), just in general.



Right... which is why you fly a Gracie Barra logo as your avatar & list BJJ in stuff you've studied... 

BTW... are you cutting GBBJJ their check for using the logo? If not, don't let 'em catch you...


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## JadeDragon3 (Apr 1, 2009)

JadeDragon3 said:


> I know of only one school that has both mma and kung fu. If a kung fu school teaches traditional kung fu and is of quality instruction then it shouldn't have to resort to teaching mma. There are plenty of techniques within kung fu to deal with grapplers. No need for kung fu schools to jump on the mma bandwagon *unless they truely like grappling*. But to teach it because you think kung fu isn't effective against grapplers then maybe you don't know real kung fu. That last comment was not intended towards anyone specific (luckyboxer), just in general.


 


clfsean said:


> Right... which is why you fly a Gracie Barra logo as your avatar & list BJJ in stuff you've studied...
> 
> BTW... are you cutting GBBJJ their check for using the logo? If not, don't let 'em catch you...


 
Well, it appears that you need to take some reading comprehension classes.....read the underlined part of my post above.  I like grappling.  I'm just making a point that if you don't grapple kung fu has more than enough techniques to deal with a grapple.  I never said I didn't do any type grappling did I?  

As for your comment about the avitar and did I get permission to use it the answer is that my bjj teacher is certified under gbbjj so in my opinion, and this is only my opinion, that gives me the right to use it.  He is the only black belt in Ky under gbbjj. So


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## JadeDragon3 (Apr 1, 2009)

JadeDragon3 said:


> I know of only one school that has both mma and kung fu. If a kung fu school teaches traditional kung fu and is of quality instruction then it shouldn't have to resort to teaching mma. There are plenty of techniques within kung fu to deal with grapplers. No need for kung fu schools to jump on the mma bandwagon *unless they truely like grappling*. But to teach it because you think kung fu isn't effective against grapplers then maybe you don't know real kung fu. That last comment was not intended towards anyone specific (luckyboxer), just in general.


 


clfsean said:


> Right... which is why you fly a Gracie Barra logo as your avatar & list BJJ in stuff you've studied...
> 
> BTW... are you cutting GBBJJ their check for using the logo? If not, don't let 'em catch you...


 
Well, it appears that you need to take some reading comprehension classes.....read the underlined part of my post above. I like grappling. I'm just making a point that if you don't grapple kung fu has more than enough techniques to deal with a grapple. I never said I didn't do any type grappling did I? 

As for your comment about the avitar and did I get permission to use it the answer is that my bjj teacher is certified under gbbjj so in my opinion, and this is only my opinion, that gives me the right to use it. He is the only black belt in Ky under gbbjj. So do you have any other questions?


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## JadeDragon3 (Apr 1, 2009)

Sorry for the duplicate post.


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## clfsean (Apr 1, 2009)

JadeDragon3 said:


> Well, it appears that you need to take some reading comprehension classes.....read the underlined part of my post above.  I like grappling.  I'm just making a point that if you don't grapple kung fu has more than enough techniques to deal with a grapple.  I never said I didn't do any type grappling did I?



Why would I take a class I can teach? Reading comprehension that is... 

As far as the content of the post, if you can't see it for a ball buster based on your quotes, you may want to consider the class instead. I hear there at Kentucky to make it fair for everybody, you can color outside of the lines & not get in trouble... 



JadeDragon3 said:


> As for your comment about the avitar and did I get permission to use it the answer is that my bjj teacher is certified under gbbjj so in my opinion, and this is only my opinion, that gives me the right to use it.  He is the only black belt in Ky under gbbjj. So



Well your opinion & Gracie family attorneys may not see eye to eye on that... just FYI ...


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## JadeDragon3 (Apr 1, 2009)

I hardly think that they are going to give a rats *** about little ole' me using a logo of theirs when my bjj teacher is a rep for them.  When they come say something to me then I will remove it.  On a side not what the hell do you care?  

The comment on Ky, was that supposed to be a slam (insult) on KY?  Do you think you are better than someone from Ky because your from where ever it is your from?


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## jks9199 (Apr 1, 2009)

I think we're all frustrated when we put our hard earned money down for a magazine (or worse, a subscription) and it's more ads than substance, and the substance ain't much either.

But it's not going to help the discussion at all if we resort to things like personal attacks on each other.  Maybe we can stay on topic, and discuss the magazine in question, instead of each other?


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## clfsean (Apr 1, 2009)

JadeDragon3 said:


> I hardly think that they are going to give a rats *** about little ole' me using a logo of theirs when my bjj teacher is a rep for them.  When they come say something to me then I will remove it.  On a side not what the hell do you care?



On a side... I don't care. But if you're not up for some neighborly advice... whatever & enjoy. When the lawyers with the SoCal tan & funny accent call though... don't say you didn't know.



JadeDragon3 said:


> The comment on Ky, was that supposed to be a slam (insult) on KY?  Do you think you are better than someone from Ky because your from where ever it is your from?



No actually... again if you'd read, not just look at the sqiggly lines on the screen... you'd figure out there's a large college there in Lextown named Kentucky. But I guess that one blew past you as well... 

But just to clue you in on my thoughts on Ky... 


One of my best CLF classmates is from Lextown
The same classmate is at Stanford all expenses paid by the school
My lawyer is from Lextown
One of my best friends is a self professed hillbilly from Coal Country
The list goes on & on... so for me to insult the denizens of Ky... I'd have to insult way higher cotton folks than just you.


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## Drac (Apr 1, 2009)

JadeDragon3 said:


> I used to get that magazine. That was back in the day. You can get them on e-bay believe it or not. Remember when they would have articles on the ninja summit?


 
Yup, ya could not pick up an issue with an article or two on the Ninja-mania craze...


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## arnisador (Apr 1, 2009)

Oh yeah, I remember those days!


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## jks9199 (Apr 1, 2009)

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## BrandonLucas (Apr 2, 2009)

Just to throw this out there...it's not just MA mags that have this problem...

I subscribe to Guitar World Magizine.  It was a subscription to GuitarOne, because they had more instructional videos and more equipment reviews, but Guitarworld bougt them out...

Anyway, there are far more ads in that magizine than there used to be...luckily, they haven't outnumbered the articles...yet.  But it's become more about the sponsers over the years than it has become about the content..


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## exile (Apr 2, 2009)

BrandonLucas said:


> Just to throw this out there...it's not just MA mags that have this problem...
> 
> I subscribe to Guitar World Magizine.  It was a subscription to GuitarOne, because they had more instructional videos and more equipment reviews, but Guitarworld bougt them out...
> 
> Anyway, there are far more ads in that magizine than there used to be...luckily, they haven't outnumbered the articles...yet.  But it's become more about the sponsers over the years than it has become about the content..



It's everywhere, Brandon. Skiing mags have been getting more that way since the 70s, and it's probably the same with the running mags and the knitting mags and who knows what else. I don't remember when I twigged to the fact that magazine are nothing more, anymore, than delivery vehicles for advertising, in the same way that cigarettes are delivery vehicles for nicotine. But where it really, really jumps out at the page at you is in the 'lifestyle' magazines, like the wine periodicals. I got my hands on the latest copy of _Quarterly Review of Wine_ a few years ago, just looking to spend a few happy hours in guided wishful thinking&#8212;$800/bottle Burgundies, anyone?&#8212;when I began to realize that virtual every large advert in the issue was being mirrored (in a kind of 'funhouse' mirror) by the critical reviews and column essays. And all of the reviews were over the top. It was so bloody _obvous_. How can they get away with this crap, I wondered then; but obviously they've been able to. I did the same thing with a few issues of _Black Belt_ and _TKD Times_ after that... you'll be amazed to learn that they were doing exactly the same thing :shrug:. _TKD T_ actually has a reputation for straightforward shakedown techniques: chuck $10K our way and you get one of the feature articles devoted to you. $20K gets you on the cover$. That sort of thing... 

I just wonder for how much longer it's going to be possible to work that way, though. As I said earlier, I think the Internet is going to put paid to a lot of that kind of payola arrangement, and not just in the wine trade. Another factor is that most people find, after a while, that the accumulation of hard copy gets them to the point where they need to build an addition to their houses just to store the last 10 years of _Golf Digest_ or _Fly Fishing_ or whatever their particular mania leads them to buy.... magazines not only cost, but take up space,  far more than their content merits. Score one more for the internet in that respect as well.


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## Sukerkin (Apr 2, 2009)

Very true all along the line there, *Exile*, particularly on the storage problem.  I used to get EVO magazine (a very high quality, performance car, vehicle {yeah!  Automotive pun attack !}) but had to stop just because there was no place for me to store them and it cost too much to throw away .


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## Jade Tigress (Apr 2, 2009)

BrandonLucas said:


> Just to throw this out there...it's not just MA mags that have this problem...
> 
> I subscribe to Guitar World Magizine.  It was a subscription to GuitarOne, because they had more instructional videos and more equipment reviews, but Guitarworld bougt them out...
> 
> Anyway, there are far more ads in that magizine than there used to be...luckily, they haven't outnumbered the articles...yet.  But it's become more about the sponsers over the years than it has become about the content..




Right? Now just imagine if Guitar World/GuitarOne's ads and articles were all focusing on say....drums.


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## exile (Apr 2, 2009)

Jade Tigress said:


> Right? Now just imagine if Guitar World/GuitarOne's ads and articles were all focusing on say....drums.



Perfect analogy, JT!


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## ggg214 (Apr 2, 2009)

grydth said:


> I'd be interested in what you do have available in China for martial arts magazines. English or Chinese (or other) languages? Do you have any on Tai Chi/Qi Gong? Are your magazines more scholarly or are they just advertisements? What countries are they from?
> 
> ggg, I think you can see that many of us in the USA are unhappy with our martial arts magazines..... too commercial, questionable scholarship, favoritism...... So, what do you have?
> 
> Same questions for other forum members living outside the USA...


 
there are several MA magazines written in Chinese, one is called kung fu spirit (&#27494;&#39746. but recent news about this magazine is not so good, because it's lack of readers. i don't know why, maybe the same as MA magazines in USA.

in fact, i have not bought any KF magazines. i don't think i can get any good and helpful info. from these bussiness things. if i have time, i would better go and visit some masters who live around my places.


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## LuckyKBoxer (Apr 2, 2009)

exile said:


> Perfect analogy, JT!


Actually no its not a perfect analogy.
Just because you want it to be does not make it so.
I think you seriously missed the point that interest in kung fu magazines has dropped incredibly, while interest in MMA has increased incredibly.
Now I will admit its a possibility the same thing has happened with guitar playing and drum playing but I seriously doubt it.
I think people want to think that the magazine is horrible, and conspiring to screw everyone over, but the fact is the magaine wants to make money and to do that they have to do whats in demand, if kung fu information was in demand they would be knocking it out.


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## Carol (Apr 2, 2009)

LuckyKBoxer said:


> Actually no its not a perfect analogy.
> Just because you want it to be does not make it so.
> I think you seriously missed the point that interest in kung fu magazines has dropped incredibly, while interest in MMA has increased incredibly.
> Now I will admit its a possibility the same thing has happened with guitar playing and drum playing but I seriously doubt it.
> I think people want to think that the magazine is horrible, and conspiring to screw everyone over, but the fact is the magaine wants to make money and to do that they have to do whats in demand, if kung fu information was in demand they would be knocking it out.



Perhaps a better analogy would be if DownBeat magazine started publishing ads and articles for rock and/or pop musicians (instead of Jazz).


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## Jade Tigress (Apr 3, 2009)

They should change the name then. MMA is very popular right now, true. The magazine is in business to make money. People interested in Kung Fu will pick up a magazine titled Inside Kung Fu, people interested in MMA probably won't, they'll look for something titled MMA. So, they're alientating their core readers. If they want a larger audience and find gearing towards the MMA craze is the way to do it, then they should change the name to Inside MMA and be done with it. 

Mind you, I haven't picked up an issue of Inside Kung Fu in a couple years. I had a subscription which I didn't renew. But if I were still subscribing and I saw this trend, I would cancel it and look to put my money to a different magazine that addresses MY interest.

The issue is not whether MMA is more popular right now, and everyone knows businesses are there to make money. The issue is that the content change is alienating people actually interested in Kung Fu, paying for a magazine titled Inside Kung Fu, and finding it to essentially be an MMA magazine.


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## exile (Apr 3, 2009)

LuckyKBoxer said:


> Actually no its not a perfect analogy.
> Just because you want it to be does not make it so.
> I think you seriously missed the point that interest in kung fu magazines has dropped incredibly, while interest in MMA has increased incredibly.
> Now I will admit its a possibility the same thing has happened with guitar playing and drum playing but I seriously doubt it.
> I think people want to think that the magazine is horrible, and conspiring to screw everyone over, but the fact is the magaine wants to make money and to do that they have to do whats in demand, if kung fu information was in demand they would be knocking it out.



The point in green is totally irrelevant. If you're calling something X, which is what people interested in X are looking for, and then filling the magazine with stuff about Y, then the legitimate response of someone interested in X is going to be the same _regardless of the relative popularity of X and Y_. See? That was what JadeTigress was getting at. Is it clear _now_?

The point in red is totally irrelevant as well. No one has said that magazines shouldn't be run as businesses. If they make a business decision to abandon the content that people interested in X are looking for, then people interested in X are going to abandon _them_. Savvy?

It's not _news_ to anyone that they're doing this make money, LB. The discussion is about (i) the personal irritation of people who bought the magazine because of its X content and now can't find that content in the magazines on offer, and (ii) whether this kind of business model is a wise one, in view of the points already raised. 

One more time: no one is unclear on _why_ the magazines have done that. What they are is pissed off _that_ they've done so. 

_See???_


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## Tames D (Apr 3, 2009)

LuckyKBoxer said:


> Actually no its not a perfect analogy.
> Just because you want it to be does not make it so.
> I think you seriously missed the point that interest in kung fu magazines has dropped incredibly, while interest in MMA has increased incredibly.
> Now I will admit its a possibility the same thing has happened with guitar playing and drum playing but I seriously doubt it.
> I think people want to think that the magazine is horrible, and conspiring to screw everyone over, but the fact is the magaine wants to make money and to do that they have to do whats in demand, if kung fu information was in demand they would be knocking it out.


 
actually...it was a perfect analogy.


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## BrandonLucas (Apr 3, 2009)

Look at it this way...

Guitar World is geared toward rock and metal.  That much is no big secret...every once in a while, they'll do a story on someone like Derek Trucks or someone in that genre, who aren't really rock oriented, but are gifted and outstanding guitarists.

Technically speaking, the magazine shouldn't cater to any one genre of music, but instead show instruction and have articles that are relevant to all genres related to guitar playing.

To a small degree, it does, but most of the articles are for and about rock guitarists.

The problem is almost reversed for what we're talking about here.  Inside Kung Fu should specialize in all things Kung Fu, but are now including articles in MMA events and the like.

The difference, though, is that MMA is technically relevant to *all *martial art genres.  You may not like to watch UFC or any of the other MMA orgs that advertise in the magazines, but what happens if someone starts jumping up in the ranks that is a Kung Fu practioner?  You better believe that the magazine is going to have a field day.


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## LuckyKBoxer (Apr 3, 2009)

exile said:


> The point in green is totally irrelevant. If you're calling something X, which is what people interested in X are looking for, and then filling the magazine with stuff about Y, then the legitimate response of someone interested in X is going to be the same _regardless of the relative popularity of X and Y_. See? That was what JadeTigress was getting at. Is it clear _now_?
> 
> The point in red is totally irrelevant as well. No one has said that magazines shouldn't be run as businesses. If they make a business decision to abandon the content that people interested in X are looking for, then people interested in X are going to abandon _them_. Savvy?
> 
> ...


 
You know Exile, I understood your point I just don't agree with it....see??
I see nothing wrong with what Inside Kung Fu is doing...Savvy??
I think my points were completely fine, and to expand on it, there are Kung fu people fighting in MMA..Cung Lee ring a bell? There are many other MMA fighters with Kung Fu backgrounds as well. I see absolutely nothing wrong with exposing kung fu people to MMA information, and possibly having non kung fu people pick up the magazine and be exposed to kung fu while looking up an mma article. is it clear now???
About all I am hearing is complaints about the content, some of which are coming from people who do not even read the magazine anymore, and have no idea what the content is. BTW I did not talk condescendingly to you, and I do not appreciate it in return. You are not my mother, or my teacher, and its simply annoying. I can appreciate a different point of view, and was simply debating whether it was really valid is all. Besides I am looking at the newest issue right now and it is a vast majority of kung fu information in it. Looking cover to cover there is 2 news briefs( 1 was karate related , the other TKD), 3 Advertisement(one for Kenpo, and 1 for a Sambo book, 1 for inside grappling magazine which is owned by IKF magazine) and 1 Editorial by the Gracies that really have nothing to do with kung fu.... does that sound overwhelming to you? Everything else has a direct Kung Fu tie in, or is completley Kung Fu in nature. There was a big article about MMA, but it was talking about how Little Nine Heaven's Splashing Hands has everything an MMA fighter needs to become a champion....
So let me ask you for 82 pages of Kung Fu magazine does 6 things that are less then a page in size really constitute the magazine selling out?
I think the problem here is more with the original poster writing misleading information then anything else.


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## exile (Apr 3, 2009)

LuckyKBoxer said:


> You know Exile, I understood your point I just don't agree with it....see??
> I see nothing wrong with what Inside Kung Fu is doing...Savvy??



I savvy that you still don't get it, LB.




LuckyKBoxer said:


> I think my points were completely fine, and to expand on it, there are Kung fu people fighting in MMA..Cung Lee ring a bell? There are many other MMA fighters with Kung Fu backgrounds as well. I see absolutely nothing wrong with exposing kung fu people to MMA information, and possibly having non kung fu people pick up the magazine and be exposed to kung fu while looking up an mma article. is it clear now???



There are people who are interested in Kung Fu. They don't give a rat's *** about MMA, or TKD or any other MA for that matter. They want a magazine about KF, _period_. Got that so far? Gooood! Let's go on to the next step.

They are writing to this thread to express their disappointment with the magazine that used to supply them with information relevant to their interest. As is their right. They aren't _interested_ in the fact that IKF figures they can make more money catering to MMA people. _They don't have stock in the magazine's parent company._ Got _that?_ 



LuckyKBoxer said:


> I think the problem here is more with the original poster writing misleading information then anything else.



Oddly enough, just about everyone else who's posted who's interested in KF seems to agree with the original poster. I guess they _all_ got it wrong, eh? :shrug:


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## LuckyKBoxer (Apr 3, 2009)

exile said:


> I savvy that you still don't get it, LB.
> There are people who are interested in Kung Fu. They don't give a rat's *** about MMA, or TKD or any other MA for that matter. They want a magazine about KF, _period_. Got that so far? Gooood! Let's go on to the next step.
> They are writing to this thread to express their disappointment with the magazine that used to supply them with information relevant to their interest. As is their right. They aren't _interested_ in the fact that IKF figures they can make more money catering to MMA people. _They don't have stock in the magazine's parent company._ Got _that?_
> Oddly enough, just about everyone else who's posted who's interested in KF seems to agree with the original poster. I guess they _all_ got it wrong, eh? :shrug:


 
Whatever, you want to be rude go right ahead, it does not make you right, it just makes you rude. 
Once again I can actually read and research, so first I understand what people are saying, my recommendation is they go start their own kung fu magazine. It seems to me people are more interested in pointing out things that are wrong with other peoples interests, instead of coming up with a solution and doing something about it. I also think the original poster is completely wrong about mma content in the magazine, since I have it in my hand and went through it cover to cover and listed what was there. BTW here are some more facts for you... Jean Claude Van Damme was on the cover of a 1990 issue of inside kung fu.... the man has nothing to do with Kung fu what so ever, it was for his movie Double Impact. Inside Kung fu has also been commenting on the UFC with 1993. You can go back further and there are plenty of articles throughout the years that have nothing to do with kung fu specifically, but the martial arts world, competitions, apparal, equipment, videos, books, etc. The magazine in my opinion has not changed much, is still focused primarily on kung fu, and tries to carry content on whatever else happens to be relevant in the martial arts world of today. The fact is that not one featured article in the magaine had to do with anything other then Kung Fu...... one article was MMA related, but like I said specifically how kung fu has everythign needed to be a champion...So please lets see your next rude comment, and lack of anythign concrete about whats actually in the magazine.


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## BrandonLucas (Apr 3, 2009)

I don't get the animosity from all this...it's just a discussion about what is or isn't in a magazine article.

Let's try to keep the discussion on an adult level...if the points are understood but disagreed upon, then that's fine.  That is your right as an individual.  But keep it respectful.


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## exile (Apr 3, 2009)

LuckyKBoxer said:


> Whatever, you want to be rude go right ahead, it does not make you right, it just makes you rude.



What's rude, I figure, is appropriating a thread which was started by someone complaining, as is his right, about the dilution of content in what had been a favorite magazine, and wagging your finger at him with the helpful comment to, in effect, shut up and start his own magazine. People don't _want_ to become magazine entrepreneurs; they want to pay good money to have access to sources that feed their own interests. If you want to admonish people otherwise, start your own thread on the topic, eh? Because your posts have been off-topic from the get-go.




LuckyKBoxer said:


> Once again I can actually read and research, so first I understand what people are saying, my recommendation is they go start their own kung fu magazine. It seems to me people are more interested in pointing out things that are wrong with other peoples interests, instead of coming up with a solution and doing something about it.



The logic here is that people who complain because their favorite Italian restaurant has been turned into a Mongolian steakhouse should 'come up with a solution' instead of bemoaning the fact, right? They should maybe go into the restaurant business themselves, eh?&#8212;that kind of solution? 

Enough people have seen enough deflection of the magazine's content from its original intent to be in agreement that that that content has been eroded. You want to disagree with them on that point, fine. Don't drag in nonsense about how it's the magazine's right to do whatever it wants, that's all. No one is _contesting_ the point. _That's_ what's rude, off the point and irrelevant, all at once.


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## LuckyKBoxer (Apr 3, 2009)

exile said:


> What's rude, I figure, is appropriating a thread which was started by someone complaining, as is his right, about the dilution of content in what had been a favorite magazine, and wagging your finger at him with the helpful comment to, in effect shut up and start his own magazine. People don't _want_ to become magazine entrepreneurs; they want to pay good money to have access to sources that feed their own interests. If you want to admonish people otherwise, start your own thread on the topic, eh? Because your posts have been off-topic from the get-go.
> The logic here is that people who complain because their favorite Italian restaurant has been turned into a Mongolian steakhouse should 'come up with a solution' instead of bemoaning the fact, right? They should maybe go into the restaurant business themselves, eh?that kind of solution?
> 
> Enough people have seen enough deflection of the magazine's content from its original intent to be in agreement that that that content has been eroded. You want to disagree with them on that point, fine. Don't drag in nonsense about how it's the magazine's right to do whatever it wants, that's all. No one is _contesting_ the point. _That's_ what's rude, off the point and irrelevant, all at once.


 
Wow you are stretching pretty far here. The fact is you got all upset long before I even mentioned that he should start his own magazine, so thats pretty much a cop out. My posts have been right on topic, directly dealing with the subject matter, you are the one who chose to attack me with sarcasm and belittling comments.

And once again your comparison is way off target, how about a person who enjoys southern Italian fare getting upset because his restaurant still focuses on southern Italian fare, but has added a few dishes from northern Italy to the menu. Maybe they need to look at the fact that the southern Italian fare, or in this case the kung fu articles are still there, and have not infact gone anywhere.

As far as the original intent of the magazine, how do you know what that is? I already posted that MMA information, and non kung fu information has even been featured in the magazine for over 18 years, thats longer then some of the people complaining have even been reading the magazine from their own comments.


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## Flying Crane (Apr 3, 2009)

Inside Kungfu, and most of the other fishwraps out there have been so bad for so long that I just quit reading them years ago.  On occasion I'll peruse them a bit to see what they are up to, but mostly I'm just disappointed.  I usually look thru them in my local Borders Books and Music, then put them back on the rack and leave them.  That works pretty well for me.  Testdrive before you buy.  Then don't buy.

On the very rare occasion when there is something worthwhile that I might want to keep, I'll buy the issue.


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## exile (Apr 3, 2009)

LuckyKBoxer said:


> Wow you are stretching pretty far here. The fact is you got all upset long before I even mentioned that he should start his own magazine, so thats pretty much a cop out.



No, LB. What I took exception to from the beginning was your off-topic posting about how it was the magazine's right to do what they wanted, a point that had nothing whatever to do with the OP. Right? The issue in the OP was not that the magazine was doing something they weren't entitled to do. It was that they were doing something that they didn't like. This latest red herring about people starting their own magazine is just more of the same.



LuckyKBoxer said:


> And once again your comparison is way off target, how about a person who enjoys southern Italian fare getting upset because his restaurant still focuses on southern Italian fare, but has added a few dishes from northern Italy to the menu.



So the relationship between Kung Fu and MMA is roughly the same as that between Piedmonese and Neapolitan cuisine, is it? :lol: 




LuckyKBoxer said:


> As far as the original intent of the magazine, how do you know what that is? I already posted that MMA information, and non kung fu information has even been featured in the magazine for over 18 years, thats longer then some of the people complaining have even been reading the magazine from their own comments.



Then try persuading them of the fact, rather than bringing in the various off-topic irrelevancies that I've alluded to from the beginning in my comments on your posting.


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## BrandonLucas (Apr 3, 2009)

Ok, so we're gonna argue over the fact that we all agree that the magizine sucks?  

Yep, that makes a ton of sense.


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## exile (Apr 3, 2009)

I agree, Brandon. But at least it would be somewhat on-topic, eh?

I suspect that help is on the way, or soon will be. The completely online mags _Totally TKD_ and _Jissen_, for the Korean and Japanese/Okinawan developments of Karate respectively, promise to be brilliant successes. There will be other major players in other arts, corresponding to StuartA and Iain Abernethy, who will see the huge potential readership out therefor the CMAs, for the FMAs, and so onwho will, like SA and IA, be able to deliver quality which is far superior to what you find in the current crop of 'style-based' MA mags. The economics of the internet make it feasible for people to offer these magazines for free, or for a nominal cost at most. Clearly there's a big niche in the CMAs, and someone will come along to fill it, probably soon.


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## Ninebird8 (Apr 3, 2009)

Ladies and Gentlemen, I have been reading IKF for years, and was heartened when Gene Ching came out with his mag several years ago. What has gone unmentioned, and I only recently noticed, is I believe Curtis Wong, the previous publisher, recently sold the mag as his by line is no longer there? As a result, I believe the new publisher may or may not be a kung fu practitioner. Dave Cater, the editor for many years, was never a martial artist and his only primatur during his years was to start controversy within styles i.e. Leung Ting and William Cheung, Leung Shum v. Lau sisters, etc. That was my main objection to IKF, that it was propagating what I perceive as the major weakness in kung fu after 32 years of practicing it, and that is the innate desire to argue among styles, arts, etc within the CMA family. This use to be propagated ad nauseum by IKF until recently. Like some here, I do not like other arts in IKF as its premise originally was totally kung fu. In my mind, using Black Belt mag as a comparison is a red herring since it has always has diverse articles on many arts within its pages. The advent of MMA and UFC has caused many to question the shortcutting (?) of study to get quick fame and reward. Currently, to me IKF is not worth the $4.99 cover because its articles are not as well written, the quality of the print has declined, and frankly the educational value has declined because with the great masters dying off, who among the new generation is really worth writing about...LOL! I am more excited that Nick Scrima, a good friend and Ying jow brother, has built a 2 year CMA competition circuit all over the world to promote the art in places like Pisa, Italy, Tokyo, Japan, Bahamas, Costa Rica, etc. This is what needs to be covered. A deeper study of the hard ability to teach traditional kung fu in the modern age, etc and train in old 18 weapons when a gun will do.  These are things not being covered. In all, my brothers and sisters, like always we get what we demand!! I love the CMA, always will, but just like organized religion is not needed to have a relationship with the Higher Up, there are other sources of good kung fu informtion. Oh, and by the way, IKF also publishes Inside Karate and Inside TKD so they can already have other outlets. Given the fact I have not yet received my stimulus package, I think this is not a earth ending conundrum. Hsieh-hsieh, and good night Gracie (George Burn's wife, not the style, being a kung fu stylist did not want to be seen as a betrayer, that is another thread today on study of multiple martial arts). Have a great weekend everyone, at the end of the day, practicing your art and smiling at how your teacher (s) still makes you look like an infant will smooth all of this, I promise!


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## Sukerkin (Apr 3, 2009)

Would you mind editing your post into paragraphs, *Ninebird*?  I'm sure you're making valid points but not many people will delve into a solid block of text like that.


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## Sukerkin (Apr 3, 2009)

_ATTENTION ALL USERS:

_Please keep the discussion at a mature, respectful level. Please review our sniping policy http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=71377. Feel free to use the Ignore feature to ignore members whose posts you do not wish to read (it is at the bottom of each member's profile). Thank you.

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## exile (Apr 3, 2009)

I have the impressionand that's all it is right nowthat the UK martial arts magazines are somewhat higher quality overall than the North American ones. I wonder if some of the British board members can shed some light on this... :asian:


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## Sukerkin (Apr 3, 2009)

Sadly, I cannot.  I have precisely two MA magazines.  I have more copies of "Handgunner" and I was a rifleman {double }.

These issues are "Fighters Monthly" vol 1 No's 5 & 8 .  They're from 1978 as best as I can tell and altho' not bulky by todays magazine standards, they do seem full of MA articles and have only three or four pages of adverts.


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## Sukerkin (Apr 3, 2009)

Just to elaborate a little, issue 5 contains:

Kanazawa's karate (shotokan)
Commando (Green Beret training)
Soul of the Samurai (documentary review)
Weaponry of the Ryu-Kyu Islands (kobudo)
The London School of Martial Arts (Yan Kwai Leung)
The Origins of Okinawan Kempo
Jay T. Will (Chinese Kempo)
Nippon Si-Budo (Japanese school age martial arts)
Detailed Book Review of "Ninja, the Invisbile Assassins"
Healing Hands of the Eastern World (Shiatsu therapy)
Heike No Makemono (Japanese art)

Issue 8 is just as good and tellingly has articles about women in martial arts and street fighting techniques ... how little things change it would seem .


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## Ninebird8 (Apr 6, 2009)

Sukerkin, per your point, I will try to break my sentences into paragraphs, though it appears at least 4 people got what I was saying by their thank yous...LOL! Sorry, my Masters in Finance and undergrad in International Economics should preclude long statements, but then that comment was merely a stream of consciousness. Other than content or sniping, I did not know the overseers here were also grammar cops. I will attempt to do better, my bad, with a bow....LOL!


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## dnovice (Apr 6, 2009)

I stopped buying or reading IKF since high school more because I didn't have money. Then i forgot about it. Honestly, though all the grappling skills i know are from that magazine. I would learn arm locks from the magazine with a friend who did BJJ during PE class. Hmm. Before I even knew any wing chun. 

I learned the basics and underlying concepts of grappling from this magazine. For that i'm thankful. 

my two cents.


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## dnovice (Apr 6, 2009)

Question: Are people willing to pay more for the magazine if there are less advertisements????


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## exile (Apr 6, 2009)

dnovice said:


> Question: Are people willing to pay more for the magazine if there are less advertisements????



That _is_ the question. My guess is, they would be... if they get high quality content. Increasingly, there's enough good stuff out there that you don't have to pay for (the Internet, again) that dilution of quality combined with ramped-up advertising revenue isn't likely to be a successful formula down the road. 

The trick for the publisher is to ensure that the mag _gets_ high quality content. This is the thing: there are only so many people around who have really important information that you haven't heard before and are willing to pay to know about. I don't know who counts that way in the CMA world, but for Karate and TKD... well, Harry Cook's _Shotokan: a Precise History_ sold for $100 a copy when it first came out, and now sells for around $400 if you can actually _find_ someone willing to part with their copy. Stuff by Stan Henning, Dakin Burdick, Iain Abernethy and our own members StuartA and Simon O'Neil (SJON) give you terrific value per dollar.  The people who contribute to _Classical Fighting Arts_ and _Journal of Asian Martial Arts_ have their stuff seriously vetted. If you can get contributions from folks like that, you're going to command the attention of the hard-core CMAists.

The previous strategy (at least once KF became a mainstream kind of pursuit), probably, was to try to get anyone who was vaguely interested in KF to buy the mag on maybe an occasional basis, rather than going for that hard-core corps. Volume instead of focus. But again, I don't know how well that will play out. Especially in hard economic times, a lot of people are probably willing to give up what they think of as a frill. It's the information fanatics in the CMA ranks who won't regard your mag as a frill if it's high enough quality. They're the reliable base for your market. If I were a magazine publisher, I'd be trying to bring _those_ people into to my readership&#8212;people who would rather spend the $$ on something (_good_) about KF instead of that pint of beer at Bob's Bar...


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## LuckyKBoxer (Apr 7, 2009)

dnovice said:


> Question: Are people willing to pay more for the magazine if there are less advertisements????


 
I kind of doubt it.
IKF is what 6 Bucks in the store.
You can buy an instructional, informational, historical, or biographical kung fu book used at amazon starting from the same range as that. Fairly in depth and decent ones for about 15-20 dollar range brand new. I guess I never really saw the magazines as anything more then a brief introduction to different things, small snippets to get you interested enough to seek out more information.. /shrug


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## arnisador (Apr 7, 2009)

LuckyKBoxer said:


> IKF is what 6 Bucks in the store.
> You can buy an instructional, informational, historical, or biographical kung fu book used at amazon starting from the same range as that.



I hadn't thought of it this way before, but that's a good point.

Still, I would enjoy something with up-to-date news on martial arts in movies, tournaments, deaths, etc., with interesting feature stories. It exposes me to things I _wouldn't _go looking for at Amazon.


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