# Combined ligament instability in knee - PLEASE HELP



## jeroen.bali (Jan 4, 2008)

Hi,

first of all, best wishes for your new year!
This is my first post, since I just found this website.

I hope someone can help me and give me some support. I feel a little lost and am not sure what will happen on my path of recovery with my knee injury.

Got injured 1.5 month ago. Was operated on December 4th.
The inserted a screw in my TIBIA because there was a fracture.
The ACL was completely torn and was reattached to the tibia plateau.
The LCL was torn and reattached.
The PCL was "probably" partly torn, but accessing the PCL was difficult due to the mess and swelling in my knee. Reconstruction and recovery is supposed to be controversial.
I had to wear a plaster and my leg had to be fixated for a recovery until yesterday, January 3rd.

Now, 4 weeks after the operation and my plaster was taken off, the leg is so skinny. It is almost scary.
The knee is still red and when i stand up for a minute, my foot turns red, as well as my lower leg and knee.
When I lay down, the redness disappears.

I am wearing a brace and the doctor told me to try to bend the knee. The brace is fixed between a ROM of 20 and 90 degrees.
I can hardly bend my knee at all! Like it is full of cement and super glue!

QUESTION: Is this a normal feeling what I am experiencing?
Does anyone has experience with a knee operation and the healing process and progress?

Any help and support is highly appreciated!

Thank you very much!

Jeroen
jmvdkooij@gmail.com


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## kaizasosei (Jan 4, 2008)

take it easy.  keep your leg elevated or level most of the time.
i broke my foot years ago.  i was in bed for a while with a multitude of metal in my leg.  later on, the metal was removed.  but in some cases, the metal is left behind.  i had a metal plate screwed onto one of the bones of my righthand with 6 screws but it was also removed later. 

if you just had the operation 4 weeks ago, i would think that what you are going through is normal.  what did the doctors say when the cast came off?  didn't they tell you how it's coming along?

just do what the doctor said... bend the knee- relax take your time.

j


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## jks9199 (Jan 4, 2008)

jeroen.bali said:


> Hi,
> 
> first of all, best wishes for your new year!
> This is my first post, since I just found this website.
> ...


You're legs been immobilized for months; it's natural and expected for it to be stiff.  It also underwent a series of traumas, beginning with the initial injury through the surgery to repair it... and there may still be an injury.  Again -- it's not surprising that it's stiff, tender, and sore.

I'm sure you're working with a physical therapist; follow their directions and give the physical therapy all you can.


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## Catalyst (Jan 4, 2008)

I've had major knee surgery in the past.

Everything you're experiencing is what I went through
1.)  My leg was in a cast for six weeks, when they removed the cast, the leg had shrunk considerably.  The Doctor told me that this is natural, I hadn't been using the leg muscles and they had atrophied.
2.)  When they took the cast off, was their pain in my knee?  You betcha, the knee has gone through some serious trauma and it's not going to be magically better by them just removing the cast.
3.)  I had limited range of motion, limited flexibility, loss of strength, etc.
The Orthopedic Surgeon told me there was still internal swelling in the joint.  There was scar tissue inside the joint that would have to be broken up.  He told me, up front, that recovery was going to be painful and it would take time.  Recovery wasn't something that could be rushed.
4.)  I took advantage of the Physical Therapy that was offered.  Ask the PT's if there are exercises you can do at home or the days that you don't have PT.  Stick to their recommendations.  If  they tell you 2 sets of 10 repetitions of a  particular exercise/movement - only do that many. Doing 1,000 sets of 100 repetitions may be counter-productive.  

As others have said, *the most important thing you can do* is to ask questions of your doctor and physical therapist and listen (obey) their advice/directions.

From someone who has been there, I wish you the best for a full and speedy recovery.


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## Catalyst (Jan 4, 2008)

Hi jeroen.bali,
I just noticed this was your first post to the forum, why don't you go the "Meet & Greet" Section and introduce yourself.


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## tellner (Jan 4, 2008)

Been there. 

It will take a long time to recover, and there may be permanent changes. All you can do is follow your doctor's advice religiously and do everything that PT - stands for "Physical Torture" - tells you to.


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## jeroen.bali (Jan 7, 2008)

Hi guys,

all thanks for your replies. I appreciate it.
It has been a couple of days since my cast came off. I am probably doing too many exercises throughout the day, but i have managed to bend the knee a little bit more than before. 60 degrees is all I can get it! But thats enough to slowly enjoy sitting on the toilet if you know what I mean!

It's good to hear some advice, I feel I need it to know that I am on the right track. This must be the path of a martial artist as well, to fight through dark and troubled times.

Thanks and have a great week!


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## Brian R. VanCise (Jan 7, 2008)

jeroen.bali said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> all thanks for your replies. I appreciate it.
> It has been a couple of days since my cast came off. I am probably doing too many exercises throughout the day, but i have managed to bend the knee a little bit more than before. 60 degrees is all I can get it! But thats enough to slowly enjoy sitting on the toilet if you know what I mean!
> ...


 
It takes time and patience.  Follow your doctor's advice and also get some physical therapy.  Good luck!


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## TheOriginalName (Jan 15, 2008)

jeroen.bali said:


> This must be the path of a martial artist as well, to fight through dark and troubled times.
> 
> Thanks and have a great week!


 

Absolutely.....mental toughness!! 
But just remember your never alone...you have your doctors\friends\family and the rest of the martial arts world to lean on when you need it. 

Best of luck - take it easy - and let us know how your doing every now and then


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## Drac (Jan 15, 2008)

Just recovering from a knee injury, not bad enough for surgery...Follow all the advice you have recieved here as they are all on the right track...


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## jeroen.bali (Jan 23, 2008)

Thank you guys for all your advice and encouragement!

It has been 1 week since my rehab started and man, I can tell, that hurts.
I have had broken bones, sprains, infections and what else more that I thought hurted, but this tops it all.

Due to adhesions in my knee I can't bend my knee. I am strapped every day 2 hours on a machine which I call the Machine.
It bends the knee to get more flexion or ROM as they call it, breaking through all the adhesions, stiff muscles, tendons and scar tissue.

When I started I couldn't get any further than 50 degrees and earlier on today they put the Machine on 92 degrees, although I had to scam it a little bit by arching up my upper leg.

But what a sensation. Will that come close to a woman giving birth?

I received a nice custom brace, a so called CTI brace which support the damaged ligaments.

The ACL seems strong and there isn't a lot of movement.
The LCL has some slack, but I guess over time this ligament will grow a little stronger.
Perhaps due to the lack of muscle around, above and below that ligament, it feels a little slack and when I build up that muscle it will all be a bit stronger.

Strange to haven't been kicking, kneeing, punching and wrestling any of my friend since the middle of November.
I am missing it a lot. I hope one day, later on this year I can do that again.

Till the next update, thanks for being there!

Jeroen


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## shesulsa (Jan 23, 2008)

jeroen.bali said:


> But what a sensation. Will that come close to a woman giving birth?


No. It doesn't.  I've had the knee surgery, I've had the kids - two natural births, no drugs.

It doesn't.

But it sounds like you're making slow progress.  Do make sure you take your time to heal - it should take around a year for a good, safe, strong healthy knee you're not likely to injure again.

Good luck and keep us posted.


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## turtle (Jan 23, 2008)

Hang in there, Jereon. I had ACL surgery and the recovery was a shock. The day I got "all the way around" on the exercise I bike, I was so happy I cried. Sounds like you're well on you way getting the mobility back. 

The pain can be intense at times and the limitations are frustrating but you will get back to your old self as long as you stick with the PT and take everything your physical terrorist, uh, therapist says seriously. I was doing so many exercises a day that I started unconsciously counting everything I did. The day I found myself counting carrots slices as I making soup, I was pretty sure I'd gone around the bend. 

Keep us updated on your progress!


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## tellner (Jan 23, 2008)

jeroen.bali said:


> Thank you guys for all your advice and encouragement!
> 
> It has been 1 week since my rehab started and man, I can tell, that hurts.
> I have had broken bones, sprains, infections and what else more that I thought hurted, but this tops it all.
> ...


Good on you for going through rehab! It's tough and painful, but it can really help. Your martial arts will help you. Through them you've gotten used to working through unusual and unpleasant sensations without quitting. And the prospect of starting training again will motivate you to see it through.

My wife had a shoulder injury that required surgery. She did her exercises and went to PT, which stands for "Physical Torture" two or three times a week. Every night we did full ROM. ROM doesn't actually mean "Range of Motion". It's short for "Romulan Interrogation Techniques"  The pain and discomfort paid off. Ten months later she has pretty much full range and strength back.



> But what a sensation. Will that come close to a woman giving birth?


Nope 

Good luck! Stick with it, and you'll be happy you did.


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## jeroen.bali (Jan 24, 2008)

Nothing new i my situation with my knee. 
Just a little notice for Tellner. I saw you are doing pencak silat.

I normally live in Bali, Indonesia, but had to go back to my birth country The Netherlands because of my knee surgery and rehab.

I am doing lots of martial arts, kickboxing and mma, and I have trained for 6 years in Bakti Negara, a Balinese system of pencak silat, with the founding family at their traning center in Denpasar, Bali.

They recently have made a website to share their style of silat and you can find it on http://www.baktinegara.com

Maybe one day, when I am recovered and you are in Bali, we can train a little together!

Greetings Jeroen


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## terryl965 (Jan 24, 2008)

tellner said:


> Been there.
> 
> It will take a long time to recover, and there may be permanent changes. All you can do is follow your doctor's advice religiously and do everything that PT - stands for "Physical Torture" - tells you to.


 
This is so true.


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## jeroen.bali (Feb 5, 2008)

Hey guys,

a little update.
I could not pass the 85 degrees on the CPM machine so the doc decided to break it while being under partly narcosis.
Jeez, what a sound it gave, terrible, all things snapping and stretching and tearing.

Had to lay on that same CPM machine 24 hours day from last week wednesday until yesterday monday morning. Each day decreasing the painkiller. Almost no sleep, a living hell.

Today i was at the rehab again. On the CPM machine I made 125 degrees so that was a nice improvement, although with painkiller i made 135..

I even used the hometrainer, put the saddle high up and biked for 10 minutes.

So I am happy, start doing some exercise again.

Greetings Jeroen


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## shesulsa (Feb 5, 2008)

Ouch.


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## bluekey88 (Feb 5, 2008)

Wow, I totally feel your pain.  Like others have said, keep up with the PT and do waht the doctors tell you.  I totally wrecked my ACL about 16 months ago.  Recovery was painful and difficult, but I came back stronger than before my surgery.  

Hang in there.

Peace,
Erik


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## turtle (Feb 5, 2008)

Wow, that sounds rough. Now that the adhesions are broken hopefully things will start looking up for you.


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