# Repeated movements in the first form



## SifuBoza (Sep 7, 2022)

Can someone explain to me why some movements are repeated in the first form?


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## obi_juan_salami (Sep 7, 2022)

Our sifu says, the amount of times a technique appears in the form is a good indicator of its importance. Repeated more times so each time you do the form you get more practice on those really important elements.


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## SifuBoza (Sep 7, 2022)

obi_juan_salami said:


> Our sifu says, the amount of times a technique appears in the form is a good indicator of its importance. Repeated more times so each time you do the form you get more practice on those really important elements.


Okay but then why, for example, tansao is not repeated 3 times, or bongsao. I dont understand why that movement is so important if it is repeated


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## obi_juan_salami (Sep 7, 2022)

SifuBoza said:


> Okay but then why, for example, tansao is not repeated 3 times, or bongsao. I dont understand why that movement is so important if it is repeated


its not that the movement is imortant bacause its repeated. its repeated because its important. 

lets use huen sau as an example. huen sau is at the end of almost every movement in the siu lim tao. its repeated so many times so that each time you practice the form you get more repetitions in. huen sau is essential for wrist flexibility, strength and suppleness. many techniques involve articulation of the wrist and you need these qualities in order to move with speed, accuracy, power, fluidity and versatility. 

bong sau as it appears in the form does not give you the same kind of foundational benefit. it simply trains you to do a bong sau. 

this said, all the technoques can be repeated as many times as you like in isolation to practice them. this is infact a nessecity. But should you only have time to do the siu lim tao on a day you at least got more training on the important parts that give you base attributes.


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## SifuBoza (Sep 7, 2022)

sorry but I cant imagine someone who took 20+ years to make the first form put in a huen sao just to strengthen the joint. You can also exercise your wrist without form. Huen sao has other purpose in form


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## wckf92 (Sep 7, 2022)

SifuBoza said:


> Okay but then why, for example, tansao is not repeated 3 times, or bongsao. I dont understand why that movement is so important if it is repeated



How many times is Tan Sau repeated in your first form?


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## wckf92 (Sep 7, 2022)

SifuBoza said:


> someone who took 20+ years to make the first form



I've never heard of this. How do you this? How do you know it was one person? How do you know how long it took to make the first form? 



SifuBoza said:


> Huen sao has other purpose in form



What is its purpose? Huen sau's are everywhere in all the forms. I'm curious to know your thoughts about this.


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## SifuBoza (Sep 7, 2022)

Only 1 tansao in form. But why 3 fuk sao ?


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## obi_juan_salami (Sep 7, 2022)

SifuBoza said:


> sorry but I cant imagine someone who took 20+ years to make the first form put in a huen sao just to strengthen the joint. You can also exercise your wrist without form. Huen sao has other purpose in form


well its nit just to strengthen the joint  it does that and a lot more as i said previously. 
you can exercise your wrist without the form.. but you can also do any technique without the form.. are you asking the purpose of forms?


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## SifuBoza (Sep 7, 2022)

wckf92 said:


> I've never heard of this. How do you this? How do you know it was one person? How do you know how long it took to make the first form?
> 
> 
> 
> What is its purpose? Huen sau's are everywhere in all the forms. I'm curious to know your thoughts about this.


It took Ngmui about 20 years to complete the first form after the collapse of the Shaolin temple.


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## wckf92 (Sep 7, 2022)

SifuBoza said:


> Only 1 tansao in form. But why 3 fuk sao ?



Hmmm...only one Tan sau? What version or lineage are you? I've never heard of the first form only containing one Tan sau.


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## SifuBoza (Sep 7, 2022)

Wing chun, wing tsun ipaman lineage all in one 😁


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## wckf92 (Sep 7, 2022)

SifuBoza said:


> Wing chun, wing tsun ipaman lineage all in one 😁



So you are in the Yip Man lineage or style of Wing Chun. Ok.


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## SifuBoza (Sep 7, 2022)

wckf92 said:


> So you are in the Yip Man lineage or style of Wing Chun. Ok.


Yes but real yip man style not youtube wing chun style and not yipman sons style


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## wckf92 (Sep 7, 2022)

SifuBoza said:


> Yes but real yip man style not youtube wing chun style and not yipman sons style



I'm guessing from the way you spelled it (wing tsun) that you are in the Leung Ting lineage(?)


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## obi_juan_salami (Sep 7, 2022)

SifuBoza said:


> Yes but real yip man style not youtube wing chun style and not yipman sons style


so which yip man style is the real one?


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## wckf92 (Sep 7, 2022)

obi_juan_salami said:


> so which yip man style is the real one?



That was going to be my next question.


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## SifuBoza (Sep 7, 2022)

wckf92 said:


> I'm guessing from the way you spelled it (wing tsun) that you are in the Leung Ting lineage(?)


All styles in one style..gives real wing chun


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## wckf92 (Sep 7, 2022)

SifuBoza said:


> All styles in one style..gives real wing chun



What do you mean? Are you saying I have to learn all versions of Yip Man wing chun in order to have real wing chun?


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## SifuBoza (Sep 7, 2022)

obi_juan_salami said:


> so which yip man style is the real one





wckf92 said:


> What do you mean? Are you saying I have to learn all versions of Yip Man wing chun in order to have real wing chun?


Do you think Yipman show real stuff to his 1000+ students...ofc not. I think he didnt even show to 1 student real wing chun


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## wckf92 (Sep 7, 2022)

SifuBoza said:


> Do you think Yipman show real stuff to his 1000+ students...ofc not. I think he didnt even show to 1 student real wing chun



Ok. I'm just trying to understand your earlier comment about "all styles in one style gives real wing chun". Are you saying you have learned more than one style of Yip Man wing chun? And then somehow combined them into one version?


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## SifuBoza (Sep 7, 2022)

wckf92 said:


> Ok. I'm just trying to understand your earlier comment about "all styles in one style gives real wing chun". Are you saying you have learned more than one style of Yip Man wing chun? And then somehow combined them into one version?


Yes something like that


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## wckf92 (Sep 7, 2022)

SifuBoza said:


> Only 1 tansao in form. But why 3 fuk sao ?



I'd have to see your first form to be sure...but I suspect the number of Tan sau's would depend on your definition...


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## Oily Dragon (Sep 7, 2022)

SifuBoza said:


> It took Ngmui about 20 years to complete the first form after the collapse of the Shaolin temple.


Hey.  No.

There's a lot to unpack here assuming you are operating in good faith.  Which I will.

Where did you get this info from?


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## Oily Dragon (Sep 7, 2022)

obi_juan_salami said:


> Our sifu says, the amount of times a technique appears in the form is a good indicator of its importance. Repeated more times so each time you do the form you get more practice on those really important elements.


Yes.

Hell, if I haven't sat in horse stance and done countless repetitions of Two Fingers Supporting the Heavens, and other classic Ming-era technique for leading qi around the body.  Strengthens the heart and lungs.

Makes you wonder, people will try to fit a couple reps of Siu Lum in a day, when they could just repeat sections for hours.  Once you've done that (lost yourself in an hour of nonstop motion) you begin to see why people did them hundreds of years ago: to kill time and stay limber.

If you're really advanced in the southern arts like Wing Chun, you're supposed to move on to using ring, wooden staff weights etc, but finding this level of practitioner is rare IMHO.


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## Callen (Sep 7, 2022)

SifuBoza said:


> Only 1 tansao in form. But why 3 fuk sao ?


Welcome to MartialTalk, SifuBoza!

Interesting, there is quite a bit more than one taan sau in Siu Nim Tao/Siu Lim Tao in all of the Yip Man lineages. Can you tell us more about who you learned from, or share a video example of your form?

And out of curiosity, what's your opinion to your own question? Can you tell us why you think there are only 1 taan sau and 3 fuk sau in the first form?




SifuBoza said:


> Yes but real yip man style not youtube wing chun style and not yipman sons style


IMO, you do not need to play politics here or put other people down in order to convince us that you have the "real Yip Man Wing Chun". Really, you don't have to flex. We're pretty open-minded here, just tell us about yourself.

What's your actual experience, where does your knowledge come from, etc...?




SifuBoza said:


> It took Ngmui about 20 years to complete the first form after the collapse of the Shaolin temple.


Unfortunately, there isn't much evidence to support this claim.




SifuBoza said:


> Yes something like that


Perhaps you can you tell us more about your Wing Chun.

You said you learned several Yip Man styles, we would love to hear more about that. Which lineages did you learn and who were your sifu? How long have you been training, and where? Etc..


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## Kung Fu Wang (Sep 7, 2022)

SifuBoza said:


> Can someone explain to me why some movements are repeated in the first form?


During the 

- beginner training stage, a move may appear in the form many times. Students will be forced to drill that same move over and over.
- intermediate and advance training stage, a move may only appear in the form once. It's student's responsibility to drill that move over and over.


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## SifuBoza (Sep 7, 2022)

Callen said:


> Welcome to MartialTalk, SifuBoza!
> 
> Interesting, there is quite a bit more than one taan sau in Siu Nim Tao/Siu Lim Tao in all of the Yip Man lineages. Can you tell us more about who you learned from, or share a video example of your form?
> 
> ...


I meant 1 tansau but few ways of doing it. I will post some videos soon. Dont belong to any lineage. Dont like organizations...


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## SifuBoza (Sep 7, 2022)

Callen said:


> Welcome to MartialTalk, SifuBoza!
> 
> Interesting, there is quite a bit more than one taan sau in Siu Nim Tao/Siu Lim Tao in all of the Yip Man lineages. Can you tell us more about who you learned from, or share a video example of your form?
> 
> ...


Sorry, i am bad wing english translator. Didnt want to be rude..i am open minded too but only for practical and usefull stuf


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## MadMartigan (Sep 7, 2022)

obi_juan_salami said:


> Our sifu says, the amount of times a technique appears in the form is a good indicator of its importance. Repeated more times so each time you do the form you get more practice on those really important elements.


To piggy-back off this thought. 
It doesn't strickly mean those moves are more important in the grand scheme of the art (though the most basic, fundamental movements are the foundation of any martial art - thus most important). It means those moves are most important for the beginner to focus on now.
The first form literally means 'little idea'. It's goal is to introduce the beginner to the very basic idea of the art.


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## obi_juan_salami (Sep 7, 2022)

MadMartigan said:


> To piggy-back off this thought.
> It doesn't strickly mean those moves are more important in the grand scheme of the art (though the most basic, fundamental movements are the foundation of any martial art - thus most important). It means those moves are most important for the beginner to focus on now.
> The first form literally means 'little idea'. It's goal is to introduce the beginner to the very basic idea of the art.


precisely. 

What you practice most and how you practice it evolves over your training life. 

siu lim tao is among the first things taught and is largely about developing the body to do wing chun well. Its the foundation.Thats the best way ive found to summarise it.


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## Oily Dragon (Sep 7, 2022)

MadMartigan said:


> To piggy-back off this thought.
> It doesn't strickly mean those moves are more important in the grand scheme of the art (though the most basic, fundamental movements are the foundation of any martial art - thus most important). It means those moves are most important for the beginner to focus on now.
> The first form literally means 'little idea'. It's goal is to introduce the beginner to the very basic idea of the art.


Siu Nim/Lim (little *念) *comes in part from Sanskrit स्मृति.  It's one of the connections between Wing Chun and Buddhism, that little symbol.

Talk about piggy backing!  Buddhist logic out of Snake, Crane, and Dragon styles.  I wasn't expecting that when I found it.


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## isshinryuronin (Sep 7, 2022)

obi_juan_salami said:


> Our sifu says, the amount of times a technique appears in the form is a good indicator of its importance. Repeated more times so each time you do the form you get more practice on those really important elements.


I know little of Wing Chun (though in many ways it's similar to Okinawan karate), but this reason makes little sense to me.  If one wants to practice a particular (even important) move, doing an entire form just to repeat it 3 or 4 times seems very inefficient.  Drilling a move one hundred times makes more sense.  Forms are not to drill, but to provide the essence of a system for reference and to provide context for technique application (among other things such as balance and flow). Practicing the moves comes from repetitive drilling.

Moves are repeated in forms to give practice to both left and right sides doing the technique, or to execute it turning to the left, right or rear sides.  Sometimes they are repeated to illustrate a technique's variation of application (though this feature has sometimes been lost over the decades, so the moves may appear exactly the same). Sometimes it's repeated consecutively as doing it twice in a row is effective for entering or progressively moving the opponent out of position. 

I think all the above are more likely reasons for a move's repetition in forms than to merely give extra practice in executing the technique.  No doubt there are other reasons as well.  Older, traditional forms are often more complex and deeper planned than we give them credit for.  Not knowing the inner workings of the form lead many to interpret them more simply based just what can be seen on the surface as suggested by your post.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Sep 8, 2022)

obi_juan_salami said:


> Our sifu says, the amount of times a technique appears in the form is a good indicator of its importance. Repeated more times so each time you do the form you get more practice on those really important elements.


Form is not used to drill. Form is used to record information. Will you buy a 100 pages book that each and every page has only 1 sentence as "This is a book."

Also you may learn "This is a book." when you are in the 1st year of your grade school. Does it make sense that "This is a book." also appear in your high school book, college book, and also gradulate school book?

You want to grow tall. You don't want to grow fat. Repeating your grade school 5 times won't get you a PhD degree.


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## Oily Dragon (Sep 8, 2022)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> Form is not used to drill. Form is used to record information. Will you buy a 100 pages book that each and every page has only 1 sentence as "This is a book."
> 
> Also you may learn "This is a book." when you are in the 1st year of your grade school. Does it make sense that "This is a book." also appear in your high school book, college book, and also gradulate school book?
> 
> You want to grow tall. You don't want to grow fat. Repeating your grade school 5 times won't get you a PhD degree.


If we want to stick to Chinese kuen fat, it gets a little tricky, because some of them like Tai Chi's forms are like you say.  You don't strengthen your body or anything from that practice, it's for learning basic movement.

But then compare that to the Tiger Crane Fist sets.  They contain information sure, but those sets are basically HIIT calisthenic routines.  They are hard as hell, and heart attack inducing if you're not marginally fit (and why normally people don't learn or attempt it when just starting out).

Wing Chun is a hybrid of sorts.  The fist sets themselves aren't very physically demanding, but they could be by adding things like reps and weights (again basic HIIT stuff). Who knows why.  That always made WC stick out for me.  The Wing Chun sets are cherry picked material found in other, larger southern styles too.  But often the physical discipline is missing, compared to some other styles that pride themselves on the grace and power of their disciples.


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## Oily Dragon (Sep 8, 2022)

isshinryuronin said:


> I know little of Wing Chun (though in many ways it's similar to Okinawan karate), but this reason makes little sense to me.  If one wants to practice a particular (even important) move, doing an entire form just to repeat it 3 or 4 times seems very inefficient.  Drilling a move one hundred times makes more sense.  Forms are not to drill, but to provide the essence of a system for reference and to provide context for technique application (among other things such as balance and flow). Practicing the moves comes from repetitive drilling.
> 
> Moves are repeated in forms to give practice to both left and right sides doing the technique, or to execute it turning to the left, right or rear sides.  Sometimes they are repeated to illustrate a technique's variation of application (though this feature has sometimes been lost over the decades, so the moves may appear exactly the same). Sometimes it's repeated consecutively as doing it twice in a row is effective for entering or progressively moving the opponent out of position.
> 
> I think all the above are more likely reasons for a move's repetition in forms than to merely give extra practice in executing the technique.  No doubt there are other reasons as well.  Older, traditional forms are often more complex and deeper planned than we give them credit for.  Not knowing the inner workings of the form lead many to interpret them more simply based just what can be seen on the surface as suggested by your post.


Ever taken ballet?  You should.

It's very similar to martial arts form, but the big difference?  The world is filled with master dancers, but not master martial artists.

That's because dancers figured out how to stretch those basic forms into not only traditional classics like Swan Lake, but also a personal style.  And the only way to get there is doing forms over and over until the "dancer becomes the dance", to quote the poet.  Ballet looks soft and demure, but it's a brutal physical discipline.

Oh, if only our martial arts brethren could see that, but honestly, that kind of devotion is hard to find in an age when everyone just wants to play YouTube master.


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## Yanli (Sep 8, 2022)

SifuBoza said:


> Okay but then why, for example, tansao is not repeated 3 times, or bongsao. I dont understand why that movement is so important if it is repeated


  As in other MA forms, there are certain moves that are most effective in various offense and defense.


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## Callen (Sep 8, 2022)

Yanli said:


> As in other MA forms, there are certain moves that are most effective in various offense and defense.


The frequency of a shape in Siu Nim Tao (or Cham Kiu and Biu Jee for that matter) does not reflect the priority of its effectiveness.

Each of the hands (shapes) in the Wing Chun system are parts of the same whole. Likewise the forms also teach development. So each form has shapes (mechanics) and concepts that do not translate into a literal application.

Wing Chun is not about doing a technique or “move”, it’s about using the shapes (mechanics) and concepts that drive the reactions and goals of the system. One of the goals being Lin Siu Daai Da 連消帶打, simultaneous attack and defense. In this way of thinking there are no specific offensive or defensive hands, shapes or "moves" found in any Wing Chun form.


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## Wing Woo Gar (Sep 8, 2022)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> Form is not used to drill. Form is used to record information. Will you buy a 100 pages book that each and every page has only 1 sentence as "This is a book."
> 
> Also you may learn "This is a book." when you are in the 1st year of your grade school. Does it make sense that "This is a book." also appear in your high school book, college book, and also gradulate school book?
> 
> You want to grow tall. You don't want to grow fat. Repeating your grade school 5 times won't get you a PhD degree.


Awesome!


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## Olde Phart (Sep 13, 2022)

Referring back to the OP's original question re: why certain moves are repeated in forms, I can only relate thru the experiences I have personally.

Early forms have basic moves that tend to repeat.  To me, they are there for me to learn a pattern (gee, a block seems to be followed by a punch/kick an awful lot of the time!) as well as learning specific techniques.  The newer/younger we are in a certain MA, the sloppier we are.  Hence, "practice makes perfect".

There are only so many kicks, punches, blocks and throws.  The key to katas/hyungs are how that limited quantity is employed.  Come up with 20-30 moves to the right, then double it to the left!  The goal is control of the body thru controlling the mind.  Years of work brings about the perfection in the moves learned long ago.  Repetition builds "muscle memory": you simply know what to do next.

Once you have the "arsenal" of the repeated basics, they become natural in a grappling or sparring situation.  When something opens up, you take advantage of the moment.  I've noticed over the years that my horse stance is much more defined compared to the noobs next to me; my blocks more definite; my strikes more purposeful.

Repetition has its place.


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## punisher73 (Sep 16, 2022)

Coming from a karate perspective....

If you want to practice a basic movement over and over it is called "kihon training" or foundational training.  You do the basics over and over to perfect them and ingrain them into your body.  Sometimes this is done from a stationary stance and other times you do it while moving.

Many times when you see a move performed multiple times in a form, you need to look at what came just before it, such as the technique(s), stance change or angle change.  Because while the move seems to be the same, the application is different.

With a VERY limited understanding of WC, I think that this is why things are repeated.  You are working on transitioning between ideas.


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## SifuBoza (Sep 16, 2022)

punisher73 said:


> Coming from a karate perspective....
> 
> If you want to practice a basic movement over and over it is called "kihon training" or foundational training.  You do the basics over and over to perfect them and ingrain them into your body.  Sometimes this is done from a stationary stance and other times you do it while moving.
> 
> ...


Good answer thank you


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## geezer (Sep 17, 2022)

punisher73 said:


> Coming from a karate perspective....
> 
> If you want to practice a basic movement over and over it is called "kihon training" or foundational training.  You do the basics over and over to perfect them and ingrain them into your body.  Sometimes this is done from a stationary stance and other times you do it while moving.


This concept is true of so many things, especially motor tasks (as compared to "intellectual pursuits). Among the subjects I've taught is high school ceramics, and this same principle applies. Learn the correct way to do a fundamental task, then repeat it again and again until it becomes second nature. Now I have a cool sounding word to describe that concept: _Kihon training._

Thanks!


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## Kung Fu Wang (Sep 17, 2022)

punisher73 said:


> You do the basics over and over to perfect them and ingrain them into your body.


This can be done in 2 different ways:

1. Drill your move right, left, right, left, ... and repeat 2N times.
2. Drill your move N times on your right, then N times on your left.

IMO, 2 is better than 1.

In this clip, the circle walking is repeated 3 times in the form (0.20, 0.38, 1.02). If one only trains the form, he may be good in clockwise circle walking only. This is why a form needs to be break apart and drill on both sides.


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## Eric_H (Oct 10, 2022)

Responding to the original question - why do we repeat the fook sao section 3 times

For HFY, this section is referred to as the Saam Bai Fut part of Siu Nim Tao. It combines techniques with layered natures (fook, gum, deng, pak, leet, wu) which can be done in several different ways. Culturally, there's also an element of the 3.5 incense bowing, but that's going to be particular to boxer society wing chun.


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## Nobody Important (Oct 28, 2022)

SifuBoza said:


> Can someone explain to me why some movements are repeated in the first form?


I can and if you really want to know it's going to cost you a $75 monthly subscription to my live video show "Vigorously Applied Wing Chun" on PornHub.


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## Wing Woo Gar (Oct 28, 2022)

Nobody Important said:


> I can and if you really want to know it's going to cost you a $75 monthly subscription to my live video show "Vigorously Applied Wing Chun" on PornHub.


Chain donkey punches?


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## SifuBoza (Wednesday at 9:50 AM)

Wing Woo Gar said:


> Chain donkey punches?


Actually if you want to learn real wing chun you can pay me 75$ per class 😁


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## Wing Woo Gar (Wednesday at 10:30 AM)

SifuBoza said:


> Actually if you want to learn real wing chun you can pay me 75$ per class 😁


No thanks. I am curious what the difference is between your “real” wing chun and any other wing chun might be?  At 75.00 a class it better be super powers.


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## SifuBoza (Wednesday at 10:37 AM)

Wing Woo Gar said:


> No thanks. I am curious what the difference is between your “real” wing chun and any other wing chun might be?  At 75.00 a class it better be super powers.


Yes because if you know "real" wing chun its like you have super powers nobody can tuch you. The defference between my wing chun and others is that my wing chun covers all "what if" situations.


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## Wing Woo Gar (Wednesday at 10:50 AM)

SifuBoza said:


> Yes because if you know "real" wing chun its like you have super powers nobody can tuch you. The defference between my wing chun and others is that my wing chun covers all "what if" situations.


You are obviously kidding. ”What if“ I can touch you? Do you have to pay me 75.00? Because if that’s a bet, I’m in.


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## Wing Woo Gar (Wednesday at 10:51 AM)

SifuBoza said:


> Yes because if you know "real" wing chun its like you have super powers nobody can tuch you. The defference between my wing chun and others is that my wing chun covers all "what if" situations.


I mean usually I charge more than 75.00 for touching.


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## SifuBoza (Wednesday at 11:11 AM)

Wing Woo Gar said:


> I mean usually I charge more than 75.00 for touching.


It seems you didnt understand...wing chun is for selfdefense so it means nobody can touch you. Any sort of hit,grab,push anything. "What if" means, any sort of attack, 1,2,3,4 and more hits(jab,hook,uppercut,kicks whatever) wingchun covers that all. So i dont need to know what would you go. Wing chun is perfect for fighting. It is science


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## Wing Woo Gar (Wednesday at 11:14 AM)

SifuBoza said:


> It seems you didnt understand...wing chun is for selfdefense so it means nobody can touch you. Any sort of hit,grab,push anything. "What if" means, any sort of attack, 1,2,3,4 and more hits(jab,hook,uppercut,kicks whatever) wingchun covers that all. So i dont need to know what would you go. Wing chun is perfect for fighting. It is science


Oh I understand just fine. You say you are untouchable, I say I can touch you.


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## Wing Woo Gar (Wednesday at 11:15 AM)

SifuBoza said:


> It seems you didnt understand...wing chun is for selfdefense so it means nobody can touch you. Any sort of hit,grab,push anything. "What if" means, any sort of attack, 1,2,3,4 and more hits(jab,hook,uppercut,kicks whatever) wingchun covers that all. So i dont need to know what would you go. Wing chun is perfect for fighting. It is science


You say Wing Chun is perfect. I say nothing is perfect, everything has a counter.


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## SifuBoza (Wednesday at 11:17 AM)

Wing Woo Gar said:


> You say Wing Chun is perfect. I say nothing is perfect, everything has a counter.


Wing chun dont have sry to disapoint you. I told you it covers all aspects of fighthing, acceptd that 😁


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## Wing Woo Gar (Wednesday at 11:20 AM)

SifuBoza said:


> Wing chun dont have sry to disapoint you. I told you it covers all aspects of fighthing, acceptd that 😁


Oh yes it does.


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## Wing Woo Gar (Wednesday at 11:22 AM)

SifuBoza said:


> Wing chun dont have sry to disapoint you. I told you it covers all aspects of fighthing, acceptd that 😁


The only thing disappointing is that you are making some big claims about your supposed prowess. It’s not a good look. There is nothing wrong with Wing Chun per se, but it is not perfect, nothing is.


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## SifuBoza (Wednesday at 11:23 AM)

Wing Woo Gar said:


> Oh yes it does.


Okay, ilcan you find me 1 bad thing about wing chun ?


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## Wing Woo Gar (Wednesday at 11:24 AM)

SifuBoza said:


> Wing chun dont have sry to disapoint you. I told you it covers all aspects of fighthing, acceptd that 😁


How long have you been training? Who is your Sifu?


----------



## Wing Woo Gar (Wednesday at 11:24 AM)

SifuBoza said:


> Okay, ilcan you find me 1 bad thing about wing chun ?


Not bad, not perfect either.


----------



## Wing Woo Gar (Wednesday at 11:28 AM)

SifuBoza said:


> Okay, ilcan you find me 1 bad thing about wing chun ?


I’m not picking on Wing Chun, I’m picking on your claim, that YOU are untouchable as a result of your training. Untouchable is just not a reality.


----------



## SifuBoza (Wednesday at 11:30 AM)

Wing Woo Gar said:


> Not bad, not perfect either.


I trainf for about 10years and my sifu is from Serbia. Now known on internet but in wing chun world is  very well known. Belive me wing chun is perfect


----------



## SifuBoza (Wednesday at 11:31 AM)

Wing Woo Gar said:


> I’m not picking on Wing Chun, I’m picking on your claim, that YOU are untouchable as a result of your training. Untouchable is just not a reality.


I am not talking that i am untouchable cuz i am still learning. But when you learn you ve become untouchable


----------



## Callen (Wednesday at 11:52 AM)

SifuBoza said:


> I trainf for about 10years and my sifu is from Serbia. Now known on internet but in wing chun world is very well known.


I know a few guys who teach in Serbia, care to share your sifu's name? Or your lineage perhaps?


----------



## SifuBoza (Wednesday at 11:56 AM)

Callen said:


> I know a few guys who teach in Serbia, care to share your sifu's name? Or your lineage perhaps?


Can you tell my their names ? Maybe i know them too. My sifu is Andjelko Petrovic.


----------



## geezer (Wednesday at 12:05 PM)

SifuBoza said:


> Can you tell my their names ? Maybe i know them too. My sifu is Andjelko Petrovic.


Soooo... what is Sifu Andjelko's lineage? Is he an offshoot of the WT lineages, or something else?


----------



## Monkey Turned Wolf (Wednesday at 12:08 PM)

SifuBoza said:


> I am not talking that i am untouchable cuz i am still learning. But when you learn you ve become untouchable


So your sifu is untouchable?


----------



## geezer (Wednesday at 12:08 PM)

BTW, I've been involved in Wing Chun for a long time. I started in '79. I feel really depressed now since I still don't have any superpowers. Not even invisibility. Only ninjas learn that.


----------



## SifuBoza (Wednesday at 12:20 PM)

geezer said:


> Soooo... what is Sifu Andjelko's lineage? Is he an offshoot of the WT lineages, or something else?


He is alllineages like ipman was


----------



## SifuBoza (Wednesday at 12:20 PM)

Monkey Turned Wolf said:


> So your sifu is untouchable?


Sry to disapoint you but yes


----------



## SifuBoza (Wednesday at 12:22 PM)

geezer said:


> BTW, I've been involved in Wing Chun for a long time. I started in '79. I feel really depressed now since I still don't have any superpowers. Not even invisibility. Only ninjas learn that.


Maybe you didnt understand wing chun yet. Maybe you will one day. Train more 😁


----------



## Monkey Turned Wolf (Wednesday at 12:27 PM)

SifuBoza said:


> Sry to disapoint you but yes


Why would that disappoint? That sounds pretty cool. So when you spar with him, you've never been able to hit him? Same with the other students?


----------



## Wing Woo Gar (Wednesday at 12:58 PM)

SifuBoza said:


> I trainf for about 10years and my sifu is from Serbia. Now known on internet but in wing chun world is  very well known. Belive me wing chun is perfect


I’m glad you train. I’m happy you love it. I am pleased that you have a skilled Sifu. Sorry, Wing Chun is not perfect. No martial art is.


----------



## Wing Woo Gar (Wednesday at 1:00 PM)

SifuBoza said:


> I am not talking that i am untouchable cuz i am still learning. But when you learn you ve become untouchable


That’s just not true. You are deluding yourself. You are not going to convince me that unicorns are real.


----------



## Wing Woo Gar (Wednesday at 1:02 PM)

SifuBoza said:


> Sry to disapoint you but yes


A ridiculous claim like this doesn’t add to your credibility.


----------



## Wing Woo Gar (Wednesday at 1:04 PM)

SifuBoza said:


> Maybe you didnt understand wing chun yet. Maybe you will one day. Train more 😁


Now you are insulting other WC practitioners in order to bolster your fantasies. That limb that you are climbing out onto won’t hold you much longer…


----------



## SifuBoza (Wednesday at 2:07 PM)

Monkey Turned Wolf said:


> Why would that disappoint? That sounds pretty cool. So when you spar with him, you've never been able to hit him? Same with the other students?


That is right. I cannot hit him not even 1 time. He tells that if somebody can touch him, he will be learning from that guy who touches him 😁


----------



## SifuBoza (Wednesday at 2:08 PM)

Wing Woo Gar said:


> I’m glad you train. I’m happy you love it. I am pleased that you have a skilled Sifu. Sorry, Wing Chun is not perfect. No martial art is.


I dont know about other arts but wing chun is...covers all situations in fighting


----------



## SifuBoza (Wednesday at 2:11 PM)

Wing Woo Gar said:


> Now you are insulting other WC practitioners in order to bolster your fantasies. That limb that you are climbing out onto won’t hold you much longer…


I dont but if you are in wing chun from 1979 and you tell me that wing chun is not perfect then wtf are you training 40+ years ?


----------



## Monkey Turned Wolf (Wednesday at 2:12 PM)

SifuBoza said:


> That is right. I cannot hit him not even 1 time. He tells that if somebody can touch him, he will be learning from that guy who touches him 😁


Does he actively go out and fight people from other martial arts/competitions to see if they can hit him?
Are you close to that level? How about any of the other long-term students?


----------



## SifuBoza (Wednesday at 2:15 PM)

Monkey Turned Wolf said:


> Does he actively go out and fight people from other martial arts/competitions to see if they can hit him?
> Are you close to that level? How about any of the other long-term students?


Grandmasters dont fight but if you attack him he will...yes he tested wing chun with all martial arts.


----------



## SifuBoza (Wednesday at 2:17 PM)

Monkey Turned Wolf said:


> Does he actively go out and fight people from other martial arts/competitions to see if they can hit him?
> Are you close to that level? How about any of the other long-term students?


Belive me a tried all "hack" hits and didnt work...the sense he got is just incredible


----------



## Monkey Turned Wolf (Wednesday at 2:19 PM)

SifuBoza said:


> Grandmasters dont fight but if you attack him he will...yes he tested wing chun with all martial arts.


Why would they not fight?


----------



## SifuBoza (Wednesday at 2:21 PM)

Monkey Turned Wolf said:


> Why would they not fight?


IF somebody ask for fight he will not deny. But why would he go first when knows hs can hurt somebody badly


----------



## SifuBoza (Wednesday at 2:24 PM)

SifuBoza said:


> IF somebody ask for fight he will not deny. But why would he go first when knows hs can hurt somebody badly


WIng chun is about living the best of your life. Learning to fight is just one of several steps in wing chun. Whing chun is science


----------



## Monkey Turned Wolf (Wednesday at 2:56 PM)

SifuBoza said:


> IF somebody ask for fight he will not deny. But why would he go first when knows hs can hurt somebody badly


I would assume that if he is good enough to not get hit, he is also good enough to control his own strikes, no? And how else will he continue to keep his skills up?


----------



## SifuBoza (Wednesday at 3:08 PM)

Monkey Turned Wolf said:


> I would assume that if he is good enough to not get hit, he is also good enough to control his own strikes, no? And how else will he continue to keep his skills up?


When you get title for grandmaster your skill is done..he lives full life of joy and health, no need to practice speed ànd power anymore only forms 😁


----------



## Monkey Turned Wolf (Wednesday at 3:10 PM)

SifuBoza said:


> When you get title for grandmaster your skill is done..he lives full life of joy and health, no need to practice speed ànd power anymore only forms 😁


Done as in he will not lose it, or as in there's no need for him to be concerned with having speed/power after that point?


----------



## SifuBoza (Wednesday at 3:10 PM)

SifuBoza said:


> When you get title for grandmaster your skill is done..he lives full life of joy and health, no need to practice speed ànd power anymore only forms 😁


But hes speed and power remains even when he is 65 old...thats why wing chun is the best. In 65age many ppl use medicines and other stuff for health. My sifu is still like 25 old kid with full energy. Kung fu is lifestyle


----------



## SifuBoza (Wednesday at 3:13 PM)

Monkey Turned Wolf said:


> Done as in he will not lose it, or as in there's no need for him to be concerned with having speed/power after that point?


He practice everyday still. But not 8h like before. Nowdays 2,3h.


----------



## SifuBoza (Wednesday at 3:14 PM)

How old are you ?


----------



## geezer (Wednesday at 3:44 PM)

SifuBoza said:


> I dont but if you are in wing chun from 1979 and you tell me that wing chun is not perfect then wtf are you training 40+ years ?


I trained under my old Sifu from 1980 into the early 90s. Then I stopped training for many years to pursue my career and raise a family. I returned to WC in 2007 to train with an old kung fu brother and teach a bit.

Somehow I never got super-powers though. Guess I'm doing something wrong.


----------



## geezer (Wednesday at 3:54 PM)

Monkey Turned Wolf said:


> So your sifu is* untouchable?*


Maybe he is a_ dalit_ from India?

....or maybe Eliot Ness


----------



## Wing Woo Gar (Wednesday at 4:20 PM)

SifuBoza said:


> Grandmasters dont fight but if you attack him he will...yes he tested wing chun with all martial arts.


All martial arts? Take it easy Pinocchio, you are gonna poke somebody’s eye out.


----------



## Wing Woo Gar (Wednesday at 4:22 PM)

SifuBoza said:


> When you get title for grandmaster your skill is done..he lives full life of joy and health, no need to practice speed ànd power anymore only forms 😁


Nonsense.


----------



## Gerry Seymour (Wednesday at 5:47 PM)

SifuBoza said:


> I trainf for about 10years and my sifu is from Serbia. Now known on internet but in wing chun world is  very well known. Belive me wing chun is perfect


Nothing is perfect. Saying WC is, suggests to me that you are inexperienced.


----------



## Gerry Seymour (Wednesday at 5:47 PM)

SifuBoza said:


> I am not talking that i am untouchable cuz i am still learning. But when you learn you ve become untouchable


Nobody is untouchable. Nobody.


----------



## Gerry Seymour (Wednesday at 5:52 PM)

SifuBoza said:


> IF somebody ask for fight he will not deny. But why would he go first when knows hs can hurt somebody badly


If he is completely untouchable, he would also be able to dominate without injuring.


----------



## SifuBoza (Wednesday at 5:58 PM)

Okay i watch to many movies..sry guys for bothering you. Tell me 1 bad thing about wing chun and i will pull back my words about it 😁


----------



## SifuBoza (Wednesday at 6:01 PM)

Gerry Seymour said:


> If he is completely untouchable, he would also be able to dominate without injuring.


Wing chun isnt dance art...it is brutal art for injuring ppl.


----------



## SifuBoza (Wednesday at 6:02 PM)

Gerry Seymour said:


> Nobody is untouchable. Nobody.


When you know wing chun you are.


----------



## SifuBoza (Wednesday at 6:03 PM)

Gerry Seymour said:


> Nothing is perfect. Saying WC is, suggests to me that you are inexperienced.


Why is wing chun not perfect ?


----------



## SifuBoza (Wednesday at 6:03 PM)

Wing Woo Gar said:


> Nonsense.


Are you grandmaster so you claim i am not right ?


----------



## Gerry Seymour (Wednesday at 6:03 PM)

SifuBoza said:


> When you know wing chun you are.


Nope. Nobody is.


----------



## SifuBoza (Wednesday at 6:04 PM)

geezer said:


> I trained under my old Sifu from 1980 into the early 90s. Then I stopped training for many years to pursue my career and raise a family. I returned to WC in 2007 to train with an old kung fu brother and teach a bit.
> 
> Somehow I never got super-powers though. Guess I'm doing something wrong.


How much hours perday you train ?


----------



## Gerry Seymour (Wednesday at 6:04 PM)

SifuBoza said:


> Why is wing chun not perfect ?


Because it was created by people and is practiced by people. And those people do not have infinite time or capability.


----------



## SifuBoza (Wednesday at 6:06 PM)

geezer said:


> Maybe he is a_ dalit_ from India?
> 
> ....or maybe Eliot Ness


No i just tell you facts


----------



## Gerry Seymour (Wednesday at 6:08 PM)

SifuBoza said:


> No i just tell you facts


Rather, what you’ve come to believe are the facts.


----------



## SifuBoza (Wednesday at 6:08 PM)

Gerry Seymour said:


> Because it was created by people and is practiced by people. And those people do not have infinite time or capability.


Time and capability for what ? They made wing chun at age of war...they needed to know strategy,positions,human body,energy..not only to throw a punch


----------



## Gerry Seymour (Wednesday at 6:10 PM)

SifuBoza said:


> Time and capability for what ? They made wing chun at age of war...they needed to know strategy,positions,human body,energy..not only to throw a punch


For anything. Nobody can be perfect at anything. And all martial arts will have some compromise, because people don’t have infinite time to pursue all areas of study.


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## SifuBoza (Wednesday at 6:10 PM)

Gerry Seymour said:


> Rather, what you’ve come to believe are the facts.


Idk why you martial artist dont belive in martial arts ?


----------



## SifuBoza (Wednesday at 6:11 PM)

Gerry Seymour said:


> For anything. Nobody can be perfect at anything. And all martial arts will have some compromise, because people don’t have infinite time to pursue all areas of study.


Wing chun study all areas of fighthing. Why you wont belive in that ? You are wc practicioner,right ?


----------



## Gerry Seymour (Wednesday at 6:11 PM)

SifuBoza said:


> Idk why you martial artist dont belive in martial arts ?


Rather, we understand them, including their limitations. Belief is for religion.


----------



## Gerry Seymour (Wednesday at 6:13 PM)

SifuBoza said:


> Wing chun study all areas of fighthing. Why you wont belive in that ? You are wc practicioner,right ?


You honestly believe it covers all possible weapons, every type of punch, kick, throw, and restraint?


----------



## SifuBoza (Wednesday at 6:13 PM)

Gerry Seymour said:


> Rather, we understand them, including their limitations. Belief is for religion.


What limitation ? Wing chun have no limitations...free flow. Bruce lee said be like water in jkd but in wing chun we need to be like a wind 😁


----------



## Gerry Seymour (Wednesday at 6:14 PM)

SifuBoza said:


> What limitation ? Wing chun have no limitations...free flow. Bruce lee said be like water in jkd but in wing chun we need to be like a wind 😁


We are humans. At the very least, WC suffers our limitations.


----------



## SifuBoza (Wednesday at 6:14 PM)

Gerry Seymour said:


> You honestly believe it covers all possible weapons, every type of punch, kick, throw, and restraint?


Yes of course. Do you belive that 300years ago there was only swords for fighthing ?


----------



## Gerry Seymour (Wednesday at 6:16 PM)

SifuBoza said:


> Yes of course. Do you belive that 300years ago there was only swords for fighthing ?


So, you’re claiming WC includes spears, shields, cavalry, long and short bows, Bowie knives, firearms, maces and flails, and scimitars?


----------



## SifuBoza (Wednesday at 6:16 PM)

Gerry Seymour said:


> We are humans. At the very least, WC suffers our limitations.


I Dont belive i that. Wing chun is not for all ppl ofc. Because of that you got many styles but only 1 is for humanity


----------



## SifuBoza (Wednesday at 6:17 PM)

Gerry Seymour said:


> So, you’re claiming WC includes spears, shields, cavalry, long and short bows, Bowie knives, firearms, maces and flails, and scimitars?


Yes wing chun covers all that in fighthing. You think ng mei didnt thought about that weapons in her time ?


----------



## SifuBoza (Wednesday at 6:20 PM)

Gerry Seymour said:


> So, you’re claiming WC includes spears, shields, cavalry, long and short bows, Bowie knives, firearms, maces and flails, and scimitars?


Did you thing ng mei didnt think about that ? Yes she is ofc


----------



## Gerry Seymour (Wednesday at 6:30 PM)

SifuBoza said:


> I Dont belive i that. Wing chun is not for all ppl ofc. Because of that you got many styles but only 1 is for humanity


You don’t believe people have physical limitations????


----------



## Monkey Turned Wolf (Wednesday at 6:32 PM)

SifuBoza said:


> Yes of course. Do you belive that 300years ago there was only swords for fighthing ?


What is the wing chun answer for someone shooting a gun at you, from 50 feet away? Or an arrow?


----------



## Kung Fu Wang (Wednesday at 6:33 PM)

SifuBoza said:


> When you get title for grandmaster your skill is done..he lives full life of joy and health, no need to practice speed ànd power anymore only forms 😁


Even when you are 80 years old, you still need to polish your knock down power in case you need it. The worse nightmare for a GM is a 18 years old who throws a punch and knock him out.

Form is for teaching and learning only. Form is not for training.


----------



## SifuBoza (Wednesday at 7:07 PM)

Gerry Seymour said:


> You don’t believe people have physical limitations????


Ofc i do but for cold weapons and hand fighthing wing chun have no limitations


----------



## SifuBoza (Wednesday at 7:09 PM)

Monkey Turned Wolf said:


> What is the wing chun answer for someone shooting a gun at you, from 50 feet away? Or an arrow?


From 50 feet you cant defend only if they miss you, but from 25 feet you can.


----------



## SifuBoza (Wednesday at 7:10 PM)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> Even when you are 80 years old, you still need to polish your knock down power in case you need it. The worse nightmare for a GM is a 18 years old who throws a punch and knock him out.
> 
> Form is for teaching and learning only. Form is not for training.


Forms are everything in wing chun.


----------



## Monkey Turned Wolf (Wednesday at 7:20 PM)

SifuBoza said:


> From 50 feet you cant defend only if they miss you, but from 25 feet you can.


So is that not a flaw in wing chun?


----------



## Gerry Seymour (Wednesday at 7:41 PM)

Monkey Turned Wolf said:


> So is that not a flaw in wing chun?


It is at least a limitation.


----------



## geezer (Wednesday at 8:25 PM)

SifuBoza said:


> Forms are everything in wing chun.


_Boza..._ I can't argue with your boundless faith in WC. _Faith_ is not constrained by facts. So I grant you your faith. By contrast, I still love WC, but I am not a person of faith, either in religion or martial arts. For me beliefs can be a fine thing, but without objective evidence to support them, they are ...just beliefs.

Now regarding your quote above on _forms _being everything, my old Chinese sifu said of Wing Tsun (his branch of the WC tree), "There are four important parts of training: _forms,_ _drills_, _chi-sau _and s_parring_. You must train _all _of them to be effective. Then he gave us gloves and headgear!

The biggest problem with WC in the modern world is that there is _little to no sparring and fighting_. Most practitioners are either _hobbyists_ who at most do a little light and playful sparring with other WC students, or they are _"untouchable Sifus"_ who wont spar because they know that they _will_ get hit (as everyone does). Then their followers will _lose their faith _and quit.

Honestly? I have been guilty of both of these flaws. Now, I am a 67 year old hobbyist who practices and teaches WC for fun and not for fighting. And even when I was younger I was at best pretty decent, but never _great. _

To conclude, I'd add that I most admire sifus who behave as _coaches_, not as demigods. Maybe somebody like ...I don't know, maybe Alan Orr? ...He seems to act like a good coach, and in the videos I've seen, he keeps it real.


----------



## Wing Woo Gar (Wednesday at 10:14 PM)

SifuBoza said:


> Wing chun isnt dance art...it is brutal art for injuring ppl.


I doubt that this applies to you based on what you post.


----------



## Wing Woo Gar (Wednesday at 10:15 PM)

SifuBoza said:


> When you know wing chun you are.


No, you are not. No one.


----------



## Wing Woo Gar (Wednesday at 10:17 PM)

SifuBoza said:


> Why is wing chun not perfect ?


Because no martial art is perfect. No thing is perfect.


----------



## SifuBoza (Thursday at 12:20 AM)

Monkey Turned Wolf said:


> So is that not a flaw in wing chun?


It is not because nobody will point a gun from 50 feet at you


----------



## SifuBoza (Thursday at 12:26 AM)

geezer said:


> _Boza..._ I can't argue with your boundless faith in WC. _Faith_ is not constrained by facts. So I grant you your faith. By contrast, I still love WC, but I am not a person of faith, either in religion or martial arts. For me beliefs can be a fine thing, but without objective evidence to support them, they are ...just beliefs.
> 
> Now regarding your quote above on _forms _being everything, my old Chinese sifu said of Wing Tsun (his branch of the WC tree), "There are four important parts of training: _forms,_ _drills_, _chi-sau _and s_parring_. You must train _all _of them to be effective. Then he gave us gloves and headgear!
> 
> ...


I agree with you about your sifu...you need to do spar to see can wc work against that and that. I spar almost everyday and wc work against all type of attacks. When you do apply principles you cant lose. I dont know if you know that when wc is created they first use weapons because long time ago there was fighthing with weapons not hands. Now imagine creators of wc made wc with flaws...they will get sliced with 1 mistake and died. I want to tell, wc has no flaws if you train corecrtly..sry for my english 😁


----------



## _Simon_ (Thursday at 5:26 AM)

.......................... oh boy.....


----------



## SifuBoza (Thursday at 6:15 AM)

_Simon_ said:


> .......................... oh boy.....


I know...


----------



## Monkey Turned Wolf (Thursday at 7:10 AM)

SifuBoza said:


> It is not because nobody will point a gun from 50 feet at you


Yes they will? That has happened countless times that people have been shot from farther than 25 feet away.


----------



## Wing Woo Gar (Thursday at 10:45 AM)

SifuBoza said:


> Are you grandmaster so you claim i am not right ?


I am no such thing. I am a student of martial arts for some time. Yes, i am telling you that are incorrect. Titles and ranks mean very little to me. You may call yourself the grand Poohbah of whatever and wear some snazzy costume, but it doesn’t translate to a skill.


----------



## Wing Woo Gar (Thursday at 10:47 AM)

SifuBoza said:


> No i just tell you facts


You believe in nonsense fairy tales and are attempting to get us to do the same.


----------



## Wing Woo Gar (Thursday at 10:49 AM)

SifuBoza said:


> Idk why you martial artist dont belive in martial arts ?


We do believe in martial arts, including Wing Chun. I am not sure I believe you know the difference between reality and myth.


----------



## Wing Woo Gar (Thursday at 10:50 AM)

SifuBoza said:


> What limitation ? Wing chun have no limitations...free flow. Bruce lee said be like water in jkd but in wing chun we need to be like a wind 😁


Oh boy here we go… Now it’s Bruce Lee quotes? Leave Bruce Lee out of the discussion. The poor guy is resting.


----------



## wckf92 (Thursday at 10:52 AM)

Wish I'd heard of this untouchable version of wing chun when I first started learning! Now I'm sad that I've wasted so much of my time.


----------



## Wing Woo Gar (Thursday at 10:53 AM)

SifuBoza said:


> I Dont belive i that. Wing chun is not for all ppl ofc. Because of that you got many styles but only 1 is for humanity





SifuBoza said:


> Yes wing chun covers all that in fighthing. You think ng mei didnt thought about that weapons in her time ?


🤣  🤣 What are you smoking?


----------



## Wing Woo Gar (Thursday at 10:54 AM)

SifuBoza said:


> From 50 feet you cant defend only if they miss you, but from 25 feet you can.


🤣 🤣 🤣 I will take that bet too.


----------



## wckf92 (Thursday at 10:55 AM)

SifuBoza said:


> What limitation ? Wing chun have no limitations...



In the other thread...you limited the idea/concept of gum sau...so apparently your wing chun does have limitations.


----------



## Wing Woo Gar (Thursday at 10:57 AM)

SifuBoza said:


> It is not because nobody will point a gun from 50 feet at you


Wrong again.


----------



## geezer (Thursday at 10:57 AM)

Wing Woo Gar said:


> You believe in nonsense fairy tales and are attempting to get us to do the same.


Belief is a powerful thing. Some say it can even stop bullets. Science and history prove otherwise.

 I'm thinking of the "iron shirt" practices of the yihequan society during the Boxer Rebellion and the "ghost shirts" worn by the Lakota at Wounded knee. 

"Ghost Shirt" with bullet holes from Wounded Knee


----------



## Wing Woo Gar (Thursday at 10:58 AM)

SifuBoza said:


> I know...


No you don’t.


----------



## Wing Woo Gar (Thursday at 11:00 AM)

geezer said:


> Belief is a powerful thing. Some say it can even stop bullets. Science and history prove otherwise.
> 
> I'm thinking of the "iron shirt" practices of the yihequan society during the Boxer Rebellion and the "ghost shirts" worn by the Lakota at Wounded knee.
> 
> "Ghost Shirt" with bullet holes from Wounded Knee


Agreed, his belief is likely the origin of all his power.


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## wckf92 (Thursday at 11:00 AM)

SifuBoza said:


> It is not because nobody will point a gun from 50 feet at you



Hmmm....interesting. Why not?


----------



## SifuBoza (Thursday at 3:02 PM)

Okay i understand why chinesse ppl hide their stuff from other nations


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## SifuBoza (Thursday at 3:03 PM)

wckf92 said:


> Hmmm....interesting. Why not?


Only in movies and wars


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## jks9199 (Thursday at 3:08 PM)

ATTENTION ALL USERS:

Please keep the conversation polite and respectful.  Please return to the original topic.

jks9199
MT Administrator


----------



## APL76 (Friday at 6:10 PM)

geezer said:


> I trained under my old Sifu from 1980 into the early 90s. Then I stopped training for many years to pursue my career and raise a family. I returned to WC in 2007 to train with an old kung fu brother and teach a bit.
> 
> Somehow I never got super-powers though. Guess I'm doing something wrong.


Pffft. If you haven't learned superpowers in the first three lessons, leave. Obviously the Sifu is stringing you along to keep you paying fees hoping to lean superpowers.


----------



## Kung Fu Wang (Friday at 6:25 PM)

geezer said:


> Somehow I never got super-powers though. Guess I'm doing something wrong.


Do you think WC can give you the super power?

There are 3 CMA systems that are famous in power generation. WC is not on that list.

The WC system may have better speed generation than these 3 CMA systems. A MA system is difficult to be famous in both

- power generation (body push/pull arm), and
- speed generation (body chase arm).

Chen Taiji.






Baji.






XingYi Liuhe.


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## SifuBoza (Yesterday at 6:35 AM)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> Do you think WC can give you the super power?
> 
> There are 3 CMA systems that are famous in power generation. WC is not on that list.
> 
> ...


WHy you show me taiji when that style is lost 100 years ago..


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## Wing Woo Gar (Yesterday at 10:34 AM)

SifuBoza said:


> WHy you show me taiji when that style is lost 100 years ago..


Why do you keep posting about things you don’t know anything about?


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## Wing Woo Gar (Yesterday at 10:36 AM)

SifuBoza said:


> WHy you show me taiji when that style is lost 100 years ago..


I think you are just a troll.


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## SifuBoza (Yesterday at 1:40 PM)

Wing Woo Gar said:


> I think you are just a troll.


Nope i just know history...taiji is lost art long time ago..today is random upgraded style.


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