# Defibrillators



## Mr G (May 15, 2008)

I was watching the news tonight when I saw this story:
http://www.kare11.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=510963

A martial artist collapsed in class and wound up getting CPR, shocked, and hospitalized for an implanted defib!  He is 38 and appears in good health.  

Do any Dojongs / Dojos / gyms have public AEDs?  They are becoming more and more common.  Most high school gyms have 'em.  The American Heart Association would like to see them mounted like fire extinguishers.  

Our Dojong's first aid kit is a box of kleenex and some band-aids.  What do you keep for first aid?


----------



## Tez3 (May 16, 2008)

They are not very common anywhere that I know of, sounds a good idea though. I suppose people have to be trained to use them? 
We have a 'battle box' for a first aid kit, we have a lot of professional things in it as we have army medics who train with us. All the adults are first aid trained courtesy of the army. My instructor is a first aid instructor and examiner too so we were thinking of doing a basic first aid course for the junior students, we've never got around to it yet but I think perhaps we should.


----------



## jks9199 (May 16, 2008)

Tez3 said:


> They are not very common anywhere that I know of, sounds a good idea though. I suppose people have to be trained to use them?
> We have a 'battle box' for a first aid kit, we have a lot of professional things in it as we have army medics who train with us. All the adults are first aid trained courtesy of the army. My instructor is a first aid instructor and examiner too so we were thinking of doing a basic first aid course for the junior students, we've never got around to it yet but I think perhaps we should.


Automatic External Defibrillators (AEDs) are pretty simple to use, by design.  They pretty much tell you what you need to do, and have pictures about where to put the pads.  The software won't deliver a shock unless it's reading the right pattern in the heart activiity.  The ones we use run a cycle kind of like "Start CPR", "Stop CPR", "Stand Clear", "Deliver Shock" (you have to press a button on it when anyone assisting you is clear), and "Resume CPR."  

In my opinion, every school should have a first aid kit, and by black belt, everyone should be required to obtain first aid and CPR certification.  EMS availabillity should guide the exact contents of the first aid kit -- but you should be equipped to splint a broken limb and deal with a serious cut, and other common injuries to your style while waiting for medics to arrive.  Ice packs are a given...


----------



## rutherford (May 16, 2008)

I'm first aid, CPR, and AED certified by the American Red Cross.  I carry a face shield for use in CPR.


In my opinion, instructors should be certified in first aid and schools that can afford it should have an AED - and keep it well maintained.  If you just leave it in a closet for years collecting dust, don't expect it to perform when you need it.


----------



## fireman00 (May 16, 2008)

Everyone should be trained in Child/ Infant/ Adult CPR.

AED training would be nice - they are prevenlant; most malls, grocery stores, airports have them.


There are estimates that AEDs work 17% to 38% effective.

More info... http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/pubpress/osha_prompt_letter.html


----------



## terryl965 (May 16, 2008)

rutherford said:


> I'm first aid, CPR, and AED certified by the American Red Cross. I carry a face shield for use in CPR.
> 
> 
> In my opinion, instructors should be certified in first aid and schools that can afford it should have an AED - and keep it well maintained. If you just leave it in a closet for years collecting dust, don't expect it to perform when you need it.


 
I completelty agree


----------



## jks9199 (May 17, 2008)

fireman00 said:


> Everyone should be trained in Child/ Infant/ Adult CPR.
> 
> AED training would be nice - they are prevenlant; most malls, grocery stores, airports have them.
> 
> ...


Just for comparison, because 17 to 38 percent success doesn't sound impressive...  CPR alone in a hospital setting has a single digit success percentage.  Outside of the hospital, it's even lower...

Note that this is not an argument to do nothing!  ANY chance beats being dead!


----------



## Mr G (May 17, 2008)

I find it amazing how many people have been taught CPR.  Every CPR class now includes instruction on AEDs.  The American Heart Assoc. guidelines that came out in 2005 really emphasize AED use.  They don't even recommend starting CPR if that delays getting a defib.  As a result, Defib units are indeed cropping up a lot of places.  

They tend to cost around $1000-2000.  They have virtually no maintenance.  The Defib mounted in our hospital entryway is checked daily, but it consists of_ looking_ at it to assure it is there... 

JKS, You are absolutely right, Doing nothing is 0% effective.


----------



## Big Don (May 17, 2008)

I have had fairly extensive first aid training, but, like everyone, could use a brush up.
My dad, always the bargain hunter, bought a defibrillator AT A YARD SALE... for $10... I am so glad there are parts missing.


----------

