# Seattle Cop murdered..suspect caught and shot.



## Archangel M (Nov 12, 2009)

http://www.peppersprayme.com/2009/11/seattle-cop-murdered



> A Seattle police officer is dead, and his trainee injured in what appears to have been a spontaneous ambush. According to the Seattle Police Department, Officer Timothy Brenton, 39, and his rookie, Officer Britt Sweeney, 33, were parked in their patrol car, debriefing a traffic stop. It was a little after 10 p.m. on Halloween. The suspect vehicle pulled up alongside the officers and opened fire without warning. According to Seattle Police:
> The bullets went by Officer Sweeneys head, grazing her in the back of the neck and tearing her uniform shirt and vest. Bullets struck Officer Brenton in the head, killing him. The suspect vehicle then fled Officer Sweeney was able to exit the patrol car and return fire at the suspect vehicle. The suspect vehicle may have been struck. Officer Sweeney was able to get on the air and summon additional officers to the scene.​At the time of this posting, there is no further information about the suspects or motive. Officer Brenton has been with the department for nine years. He leaves behind a wife and two children. Officer Sweeney recently graduated from the Washington State Criminal Justice Training Center.


 
The scumbag..Christopher John Mumfort was paralyzed from the neck down after a gunbattle with police. 



> In announcing the charges during a news conference, King County Prosecutor Dan Satterberg said Christopher John Monfort waged a "one-man war" against the Seattle Police Department that began with the firebombing of several police vehicles on Oct. 22 and ended with the shooting death of Brenton.
> 
> The charges include aggravated first-degree murder, filed in the slaying of Brenton, who was fatally shot while sitting in a police cruiser with rookie officer Britt Sweeney, who was wounded. Satterberg called the shootings "coldblooded."
> 
> ...


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## d1jinx (Nov 12, 2009)

hopefully he gets the death penalty, cause he wont suffer in prison... cant feel the ole poop shoot getting violated.


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## grydth (Nov 13, 2009)

I hope this cop killer lives a loooooooooooooong time, just as he is now.


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## theletch1 (Nov 13, 2009)

grydth said:


> I hope this cop killer lives a loooooooooooooong time, just as he is now.


 I'm sure he will. Appeal after appeal will give him years left to live.  I'm sure some group or other will come out against the death penalty for him because he's paralyzed now stating that it would be cruel and unusual punishment to kill him in that state.  I say put this animal to sleep as quickly and efficiently as can be done under the law.


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## grydth (Nov 13, 2009)

I have to say that, when I saw the original post, the thought that came to me was: Wish this had happened to that coward that shot up Ft Hood.

According to news reports today, that has partially happened.

Usually I'd be on board with the death penalty for those who murder our soldiers or police, as it seems the most severe punishment possible. But consider:

Both of these bad guys thought they'd go out in a blaze of 'glory'.... Blam! Blam! Just like the end of the Wild Bunch! Then, Valhalla or 72 virgins (important for Hasan, as he couldn't get a date in this world). But in an ending Rod Serling could have written, they don't get the quick and glorious exit....

Instead, the Seattle killer is like an insect stuck to a board with a pin.... no pleasure, completely in the control of those he hates and who hate him back, can't hurt anyone or end his hell, just laying there wetting himself in a cold sterile joyless environment day after day.... 

After 4 police shots, the Fort hood shooter is a permanent wheelchair  resident and may have lost use of his hands, too.... No soup and no virgins for you! Hopefully not for decades....

No, I would not grant either monster an early release via hangman or state sponsored OD.... yes, tax money may be used to prolong what for them will seem an endless Hell on earth - best use of tax dollars I've seen in some time.


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## d1jinx (Nov 13, 2009)

grydth said:


> I have to say that, when I saw the original post, the thought that came to me was: Wish this had happened to that coward that shot up Ft Hood.
> 
> According to news reports today, that has partially happened.
> 
> ...


 
I retract my original statement about hoping they get the death penalty.  You have put it in very clear words that I can totally agree with.


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## Steve (Nov 13, 2009)

Living in the SEattle area, this is a story I've been following pretty closely. I have a couple of thoughts. First, I'm glad the guy was caught and I think that the police handled it very well. He is getting what he deserves and no more.

I am aware of and agree with the idea behind aggravated murder vs murder, and I think that our police need to be protected.  A clear message needs to be sent to criminals that targeting the LEO is a bad idea.

But at the same time, I disagree with the general sentiment that the lives of our police are more valuable than the lives of anyone else.  The story has received a disproportionate amount of attention, IMO.  Innocent people are murdered in cold blood and receive barely a glance by the local media.  But a cop is murdered in cold blood and memorials are held, radio personalities start funds, every ripple is reported.  I have a problem with that.


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## Archangel M (Nov 13, 2009)

Knew there was a "but" coming...always seems to be one when it come to cops.

What about soldiers...what about Ft. Hood...have a problem with THAT?

There recently were a large number of memorials, fundraisers and media for some firemen killed in a fire here. Have an issue with that?


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## jks9199 (Nov 13, 2009)

Why is it more serious to kill a cop or firefighter?  Well, the first reason is very personal; it might have been me you killed!

But let's look at what killing a cop or firefighter or corrections officer (etc.) who is doing their job implies...  That cop is the face of the public; he's the representative of public order.  Killing a cop or firefighter at that point isn't just a strike at a person, it's a strike at the whole of society.  Yes, it's rationalization.  But it works for me.


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## Carol (Nov 13, 2009)

There has been media attention and funds set up for the 11 year old girl from Mount Vernon, NH whose throat was slit and mother was killed during a home invasion.

She is not a public servant of any kind, she is a 6th grader.


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## Archangel M (Nov 13, 2009)

I know where Steve is coming from. It just "gets me" some of the times that it only seems that cops get the "you think your lives are more important than ours" shots when firemen, soldiers....not to mention media stars and famous people... don't get the same treatment. 

Was Michael Jacksons life worth more than anybody elses? Is a movie star's contribution to society worth more than that of a person who's life was taken while in service to his/her community or country. What is deserving of honor and attention in our society these days? It seems like an actor who overdoses on drugs is fine for hours of media attention while an officer assassinated while parked on the roadside is getting "too much attention".

I think peoples priorities are getting ****ed up.


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## Steve (Nov 13, 2009)

Archangel M said:


> Knew there was a "but" coming...always seems to be one when it come to cops.
> 
> What about soldiers...what about Ft. Hood...have a problem with THAT?
> 
> There recently were a large number of memorials, fundraisers and media for some firemen killed in a fire here. Have an issue with that?


I have a problem with the idea that some people's lives are more valuable than others.  I have no problem with media attention or fundraisers.  What I have a problem with is the idea that the murder of a LEO is more of a loss to the community than the murder of any other upstanding citizen in the community.  Is that really so hard to understand?

Once again, I am aware of and understand the difference between murder and aggravated murder.  I agree with the rationale that the murder of a cop should carry the most severe punishment.  Cops have targets on their backs.  I get that and criminals should know that the murder of a police officer will result in dire punishment.

What I'm talking about is the rest of it.   For example, Home Depot donated thousands in building materials so that an addition could be built on the house.  Contractors are going to do the labor for free.  Thousands of dollars in addition to this have been donated.  A roundabout downtown was tied up for hours during rush hour for a memorial.  Ron and Don have talked about it endlessly for days on one of the local shows.   

Maybe I should make it clear that I'm not JUST talking about a cop here.  I'm simply observing that we often, as a society, overtly value the lives of some good people more than the lives of other good people.  I wonder at the good that could be done if these businesses and media celebrities would do the same for all of the good people who are murdered.   I'm sure that their families are often in just as much need, but because their father/husband was just a convenience store clerk (like Melwani, the clerk murdered in Ballard not long ago), they don't get the support.


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## d1jinx (Nov 14, 2009)

I live 20 minutes from Phily.  People are murdered here all the time, COPS included.  And because the murder rate is so high, everyone gets news coverage.

I have never seen so many cops getting killed before.  It is seriously out of control here.  Dont believe me google the rate for this year and last....

Anyway, I think what makes it so bad and why a cop getting murdered stands out more that ray ray pushing drugs on the corner getting clipped is...  Cops have guns and a gang bigger than any on the street.  Sure any coward can pull a gun on someone robbing them.... shake while holding it.... and close thier eyes and pull the trigger... But it takes an especially no fear or morals individual who is a HUGE threat to society, to pull a gun and shoot a cop, when the cop has a gun (and isnt hiding it) and is allowed to shoot back.  

It speaks clearly of the recklessness of some people.  They have no fear and are the worst if they can do that... who can stop someone like that?


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## Hudson69 (Nov 14, 2009)

stevebjj said:


> I have a problem with the idea that some people's lives are more valuable than others. I have no problem with media attention or fundraisers. What I have a problem with is the idea that the murder of a LEO is more of a loss to the community than the murder of any other upstanding citizen in the community. Is that really so hard to understand?
> 
> Once again, I am aware of and understand the difference between murder and aggravated murder. I agree with the rationale that the murder of a cop should carry the most severe punishment. Cops have targets on their backs. I get that and criminals should know that the murder of a police officer will result in dire punishment.
> 
> ...


 
I don't think you understand why there is such a reaction by the public because you have never ran to the source of the fire or the gunshots.  Yes there are good people killed all of the time but for those groups of people that tackle problems the majority of society would with never happened in the first place then that is one reason why, in my humble opinion, there is more of an out pouring of assistance for those people.

On another note societies have almost always venerated its members who have been identified with doing something heroic. I am not talking about handling that loud noise complaint in the apartment building or that damage to property call involving some juveniles throwing rocks.

I am talking about the officer who dies or is injured running down a murderer, who (not SWAT) has to kick in a door on a bandit and cannot wait for back-up or something else the average "good" person has never conceived of doing.  Even the hose dragger (aka firefighter ) not simply assisting medical but pulling people out of a crumbling apartment building.

The lives of these people are no less and no more precious than anyone elses but what makes them special is the fact that so many other people are alive today because of them doing what they do.

Okay, I will get off my soap box now.


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## Archangel M (Nov 14, 2009)

Thing is society DOES,HAS and ALWAYS WILL, place "value" on things. Kings, emperors, warlords, Knights, Priests, and on..and on. 

Who would ...or should we be "honoring" more? Soldiers, Cops, Firemen or singers, actors and athletes?

If Home Depot want's to donate..thats their decision.

I've experienced some "fine citizens" ire for having to wait for a Soldiers funeral procession. Needless to say I was less than sympathetic.

If someone sees NO fundamental difference in the courage, sacrifice, and duty between a clerk killed in a hold-up and an officer getting killed in a gubattle responding to the robbery...placing their lives willingly on the line..than I don't know what to say. 

If honoring a man/woman who was killed wearing the uniform of your City isn't worth a few minutes sitting in traffic then I don't know what to say either.


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## Archangel M (Nov 14, 2009)

And...as cold and calculating at it may sound. I think that the "big deal" made out of officers deaths helps living officers make the decision to "face the fire" when the time comes. Much of the "big deal" is for those left behind. 

While I don't want to die. If dying in the line of duty at least means I will be given a heros memoriam...that the people I died for will at least make a "big deal" out of it..than that will perhaps make it a little easier on me (and my family) as I pass.


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## Steve (Nov 14, 2009)

Hudson69 said:


> I don't think you understand why there is such a reaction by the public because you have never ran to the source of the fire or the gunshots.  Yes there are good people killed all of the time but for those groups of people that tackle problems the majority of society would with never happened in the first place then that is one reason why, in my humble opinion, there is more of an out pouring of assistance for those people.
> 
> On another note societies have almost always venerated its members who have been identified with doing something heroic. I am not talking about handling that loud noise complaint in the apartment building or that damage to property call involving some juveniles throwing rocks.
> 
> ...


Okay.  Here's the deal.  I really, really don't think you took the time to understand my point.  I have said nothing that disagrees with anything in your post, and yet you feel like you need to dress me down.  

When you say things about how their lives are no more or less precious...  but well, they are more precious, make your position very clear to me.  I simply disagree.  

And once again, I'm not talking about the legal penalties and how Washington State intends to prosecute for Aggravated Murder as opposed to just Murder.


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## Steve (Nov 14, 2009)

Archangel M said:


> And...as cold and calculating at it may sound. I think that the "big deal" made out of officers deaths helps living officers make the decision to "face the fire" when the time comes. Much of the "big deal" is for those left behind.
> 
> While I don't want to die. If dying in the line of duty at least means I will be given a heros memoriam...that the people I died for will at least make a "big deal" out of it..than that will perhaps make it a little easier on me (and my family) as I pass.



I think it's telling that you two, hudson and archangel, are focusing on a lack of reverence, presuming the worst of me.  You guys have a chip on your shoulder and appear to me to be unwilling to read anythiing that even hints at complete disagreement with your point.  

What I have suggested is that there would be much good done if EVERY good person who is murdered in cold blood could receive such reverence, and the families such generous support from the community.  I have never suggested that a slain officer or soldier is unimportant or not worth the time to pause and respect their funerals or place flowers at their memorial.  I don't begrudge the surviving family the assistance from the community.  i think that's grerat.  I have simply tried to suggest that the murder of an honest gas station clerk is equally important.  Both contribute to society.  Both families are in need of help.


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## jks9199 (Nov 14, 2009)

I hear what you're saying, Steve, and in the most part, I agree.  Any murder, any accidental homicide even, is a tragedy, especially for the victim's loved ones, and all the victims and their families deserve recognition and compassion.

Why do we give a cop's or firefighter's family special attention?  Because the cop  accepted the responsibility of running toward danger.  I think in some way, it's an unwritten social contract; something like a bribe or a way to ease some sort of survivor's guilt.  Kind of like how someone might suddenly donate to the March of Dimes when they're wife is pregnant, or to the local Children's Hospital when they have kids.  Kind of a "maybe if I give some money, my family will be safe."   I don't know.  

I do know it's comforting in a way to know that, between insurance and several programs, if some ******* murders me on-the-job, my family will be taken care, my kid'll be able to go to college... Same way it means something to me to know that my colleagues will take care me & my family if I'm seriously hurt on the job.  Is it fair that a cop's family gets special attention?  No.  But it's a fact of life that it happens.


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## FierySquidFace (Nov 14, 2009)

stevebjj said:


> I think it's telling that you two, hudson and archangel, are focusing on a lack of reverence, presuming the worst of me. You guys have a chip on your shoulder and appear to me to be unwilling to read anythiing that even hints at complete disagreement with your point.


 
couldn't agree more steve. don't worry guys. i'm not even gonna touch this one.


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## FierySquidFace (Nov 14, 2009)

jks9199 said:


> I hear what you're saying, Steve, and in the most part, I agree. Any murder, any accidental homicide even, is a tragedy, especially for the victim's loved ones, and all the victims and their families deserve recognition and compassion.
> 
> Why do we give a cop's or firefighter's family special attention? Because the cop accepted the responsibility of running toward danger. I think in some way, it's an unwritten social contract; something like a bribe or a way to ease some sort of survivor's guilt. Kind of like how someone might suddenly donate to the March of Dimes when they're wife is pregnant, or to the local Children's Hospital when they have kids. Kind of a "maybe if I give some money, my family will be safe." I don't know.
> 
> *I do know it's comforting in a way to know that, between insurance and several programs, if some ******* murders me on-the-job, my family will be taken care, my kid'll be able to go to college... Same way it means something to me to know that my colleagues will take care me & my family if I'm seriously hurt on the job*. Is it fair that a cop's family gets special attention? No. But it's a fact of life that it happens.


 

another very good point.


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## Steve (Nov 14, 2009)

jks9199 said:


> I hear what you're saying, Steve, and in the most part, I agree.  Any murder, any accidental homicide even, is a tragedy, especially for the victim's loved ones, and all the victims and their families deserve recognition and compassion.
> 
> Why do we give a cop's or firefighter's family special attention?  Because the cop  accepted the responsibility of running toward danger.  I think in some way, it's an unwritten social contract; something like a bribe or a way to ease some sort of survivor's guilt.  Kind of like how someone might suddenly donate to the March of Dimes when they're wife is pregnant, or to the local Children's Hospital when they have kids.  Kind of a "maybe if I give some money, my family will be safe."   I don't know.
> 
> I do know it's comforting in a way to know that, between insurance and several programs, if some ******* murders me on-the-job, my family will be taken care, my kid'll be able to go to college... Same way it means something to me to know that my colleagues will take care me & my family if I'm seriously hurt on the job.  Is it fair that a cop's family gets special attention?  No.  But it's a fact of life that it happens.


Thanks! I really appreciate your reply.


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## Hudson69 (Nov 20, 2009)

stevebjj said:


> I think it's telling that you two, hudson and archangel, are focusing on a lack of reverence, presuming the worst of me. You guys have a chip on your shoulder and appear to me to be unwilling to read anythiing that even hints at complete disagreement with your point.
> 
> What I have suggested is that there would be much good done if EVERY good person who is murdered in cold blood could receive such reverence, and the families such generous support from the community. I have never suggested that a slain officer or soldier is unimportant or not worth the time to pause and respect their funerals or place flowers at their memorial. I don't begrudge the surviving family the assistance from the community. i think that's grerat. I have simply tried to suggest that the murder of an honest gas station clerk is equally important. Both contribute to society. Both families are in need of help.


 
You are right I did not fully read your earlier statement and do not want to come off as having a chip but am having a hard time getting my point across so I do apologize.

I think what I trying to say is that any murder of a good person is tragic and surviving family should have resources made available to them.  But I thnk that Police, Fire, EMT's and members of our esteemed Military receive higher/greater accolades is because of the way they died; serving society in a dangerous profession. In response a society is more likely to have a greater outpouring and provide assistance above and beyond what it normally does for the "average" citizen.

When a 7-11 clerk is shot during a robbery only his friends and family grieve, friends included the daily people he/she came in contact with but on a societal whole there is lack of empathy. When an Officer dies (especially violently and/or heroically) everyone seems to know a police officer, deputy sheriff, marshall, agent and probably had one somewhere in his/her family.  And despite the fact that it only takes a small percentage of an agency to put a black mark on the entire agency for doing something illegal/immoral/stupid/or all of the above; most honest citizens know of at least a story about how a local LEO found a lost child, stopped a robbery, found a murderer, put an end to a meth lab or something else, something the average citizen would not do and possibly seek to avoid.

Society needs its heroes, honoring the fallen members of the thin blue line is one way of letting society know it still has them.

Does that make more sense?  Again no chipped shoulders here and no antagonistic feelings meant.


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## Archangel M (Nov 20, 2009)

I really could personally care less if someone on the net outright said "cops don't deserve all the ceremony when they die" (I know that's not what you are saying Steve). Free to think/say what you want.

I was just commenting on the fact that it seems like everytime I see, start or post to a thread about a cops murder...somehow...someone has to take the "why do you deserve special treatment", or the "7-11 Clerks have a more dangerous job" shot. 

Note how this thread has been turned into exactly that topic.


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## Steve (Nov 20, 2009)

Hudson69 said:


> You are right I did not fully read your earlier statement and do not want to come off as having a chip but am having a hard time getting my point across so I do apologize.
> 
> I think what I trying to say is that any murder of a good person is tragic and surviving family should have resources made available to them. But I thnk that Police, Fire, EMT's and members of our esteemed Military receive higher/greater accolades is because of the way they died; serving society in a dangerous profession. In response a society is more likely to have a greater outpouring and provide assistance above and beyond what it normally does for the "average" citizen.
> 
> ...


Thanks, Hudson.  I was focusing more on the equivalent damage to the surviving families, and how simply by virtue of position, some are better taken care of.  In our lives, most law abiding citizens spend a lot more time interacting with convenience store clerks than cops.


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## Steve (Nov 20, 2009)

Archangel M said:


> I really could personally care less if someone on the net outright said "cops don't deserve all the ceremony when they die" (I know that's not what you are saying Steve). Free to think/say what you want.
> 
> I was just commenting on the fact that it seems like everytime I see, start or post to a thread about a cops murder...somehow...someone has to take the "why do you deserve special treatment", or the "7-11 Clerks have a more dangerous job" shot.
> 
> Note how this thread has been turned into exactly that topic.


Poor you.  Cops are so misunderstood. 

It's telling that the main points you would take are "why do you deserve special treatment" and "7-11 Clerks have a more dangerous job" out of my posts.  That, in my opinion, has less to do with what I actually wrote than with your own hangups.


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## grydth (Nov 29, 2009)

While the lives of all murder victims are important, and their families are often not taken care of that well, today's news of 4 police officers shot illustrates the basis of the police viewpoint here.

This was an ambush killing of 4 officers who never had a chance. Nobody else, not even the counter clerk, was targeted. Same in the Seattle rampage. I can see giving the officers killed *at least *a ceremony and family survivors' benefits.... they have to deal with homicidal maniacs as part of their job; the rest of us mostly deal with it through a key board.

Oh, and there's _*never *_a debate on reasonable force when its the police who get shot.


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## Archangel M (Nov 30, 2009)

WTF is going on in Washington State?

I have nothing but black and murderous anger right now. What I would like to say would not be fitting for an LEO. I just hope this scumbag is found soon...and I don't care what condition he is found in.


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## Steve (Nov 30, 2009)

Archangel M said:


> WTF is going on in Washington State?
> 
> I have nothing but black and murderous anger right now. What I would like to say would not be fitting for an LEO. I just hope this scumbag is found soon...and I don't care what condition he is found in.


This is ongoing. According to the local news on the way in to work today, he's holed up in a house, surrounded. They believe that he is injured, and could be dead from those injuries.  Last I heard, they are sending in a robot to see what's what.


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## Steve (Nov 30, 2009)

Okay.  Guy is still at large.  http://www.kirotv.com/news/21760096/detail.html


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## Archangel M (Nov 30, 2009)

That this human piece of garbage was even on the street is a travesty. 11 years of a 95 year sentence. A pardon by Huckabee. Our court system is in serious disrepair.


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## grydth (Nov 30, 2009)

Archangel M said:


> That this human piece of garbage was even on the street is a travesty. 11 years of a 95 year sentence. A pardon by Huckabee. Our court system is in serious disrepair.



Yes, it is, and it highlights how ineffective our (in)justice system has become. It is not doing its *basic* job, which is keeping society safe. Again and again this monster was arrested and sentenced.... yet he was freed so often that one might think there was some urgent national need that he be back on the streets asap. There is no reason whatsoever for this individual to have been out on the street.

The problem is not due to one political party alone. Remember Presidential candidate Michael Dukakis was slammed in ads for furloughing prisoner Willie Horton, who went on to commit further heinous crimes. Well, the killer in question here was freed by Conservative darling Mike Huckabee back when he was Governor.

Prison sentences should be finite... and the time stated should be served. Bail needs to be higher... and more often, denied. Parole boards have done more damage to our society than Osama bin Laden could ever dream of doing - yet they are in no way accountable for their damnable decisions.... hey, how about if those were elected positions instead of political appointments?


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## Archangel M (Dec 1, 2009)

One scumbag DRT.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125966812323771121.html


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## MJS (Dec 1, 2009)

I'm glad to see this huge piece of human **** off the streets.  While part of me is glad they shot him, part of me wishes that he didn't get off that easy.  Not that being shot to death is getting off easy, but I think the thought of him rotting in a prison cell, never to see the light of day, is a hell of alot more tolling on the mind, as well as the body.

Either way, as I said, one less piece of scum bag **** off the streets!  My thoughts and prayers go out to the families of the slain officers.  Additionally, I'd also like to say Thanks to all of the LEOs here for the job that you do every day.  As we can see, anytime you put that uniform on, you're a walking target.  Nothing irks me more, than to read some posts by certain people, as well as comments in the papers, about LEOs.  I'd be willing to bet that 99% of the armchair QBs, have ZERO idea as to what being a cop is like.  

Enough said on that.  God bless and be safe out there.:asian:

On another note, it amazes me, as to how or why a Gov. would grant a **** bag like this, freedom.  WTF! Is out system that ****ed?  Apparently so.  IMO, nobody except a judge should be allowed that ability.


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## cdunn (Dec 1, 2009)

MJS said:


> Enough said on that. God bless and be safe out there.:asian:
> 
> On another note, it amazes me, as to how or why a Gov. would grant a **** bag like this, freedom. WTF! Is out system that ****ed? Apparently so. IMO, nobody except a judge should be allowed that ability.


 
Mr. Huckabee, it would appear, has a habit of releasing prisoners after preachers tell him that the prisoner has made a sincere confession of being 'born again'. A habit fully in line with the image he presents. The system is not broken, we are merely reaping the fruit that comes of the seed of the voter's choices.


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## Twin Fist (Dec 1, 2009)

I put those first who everyday put themselves last

that means in my world, cops and soldiers ARE worth more than the scumbags that kill them.


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## Steve (Dec 1, 2009)

Twin Fist said:


> I put those first who everyday put themselves last
> 
> that means in my world, cops and soldiers ARE worth more than the scumbags that kill them.


At the risk of being overly defensive, there have been a couple of comments that make me wonder if they're pointed at me.  If so, please make it clear, because I'd be offended if someone suggested to me that I value the lives of murderers as much or more than the lives of cops.  And if you have that impression of me, or the impression that I don't like cops or honor their fallen, I haven't done a very good job of explaining myself.  If you disagree with something I've written, I'd appreciate it if you'd speak plainly.


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## MJS (Dec 1, 2009)

cdunn said:


> Mr. Huckabee, it would appear, has a habit of releasing prisoners after preachers tell him that the prisoner has made a sincere confession of being 'born again'. A habit fully in line with the image he presents. The system is not broken, we are merely reaping the fruit that comes of the seed of the voter's choices.


 
Understood.  I guess my point is, if I had a dollar for all those that claim to be reformed, are born again, etc., I'd be a rich, rich man.  Who cares what a preacher says to the gov....I doubt the gov or any other non related LE person, has access to someones criminal records, and if they do, why do they, but the point is, given this guys long record, there should be nothing he could say, that would warrant his release.  This guy is a first class POS, who IIRC, has a record dating back to his teens.  That being said, for anyone to think he's reformed, needs their head examined, and that goes for the preacher and the gov.


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## cdunn (Dec 1, 2009)

MJS said:


> Understood. I guess my point is, if I had a dollar for all those that claim to be reformed, are born again, etc., I'd be a rich, rich man. Who cares what a preacher says to the gov....I doubt the gov or any other non related LE person, has access to someones criminal records, and if they do, why do they, but the point is, given this guys long record, there should be nothing he could say, that would warrant his release. This guy is a first class POS, who IIRC, has a record dating back to his teens. That being said, for anyone to think he's reformed, needs their head examined, and that goes for the preacher and the gov.


 
Criminal history is a part of the application for clemency in AR. In addition, a reccomendation is made by the parole board. Every possible red flag was raised. Huckabee was certainly given the opportunity to learn that this man was going to be a further problem. 

The system exists specifically so that gross miscarriage of justice can be addressed. Huckabee is solely responsible for creating the opportunity for further failure. However, there were at least three major points at which this tragedy could have been prevented, if not more: every one of them needs to be addressed. 

Huckabee should not have commuted the first sentence to parole. The evidence was there that he was a violent man with little to no control over the impulse to violence.

When he was detained for parole violation, the new crimes should have been immediately prosecuted, rather than chucked. I do not know if his commuted sentence was factored into his eligibility for his second parole. If it was not, it should have been. 

When he was detained in Washington for rape, his criminal history should have made him ineligable for bail: Violence against authority was a pattern. Bail is, at best, a type of restraint against flight risk. 

Yet, with everything said: Hucklebee permitted the start of the chain of failures.


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## TKDHomeSchooler (Dec 1, 2009)

Twin Fist said:


> Yet, with everything said: Hucklebee permitted the start of the chain of failures.



It is not totally his fault, he had a unanimous vote by the parole board to release him.


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## celtic_crippler (Dec 1, 2009)

But...but...but... Child molesting dirtbag rapist murdering cop killers have fee-wings too! 

And how uncivlized is it to actually entertain the thought of actually punishing somone for a crime where there'a an actual victim? 

I mean, pot smokers & prostitutes deserve the long jail sentences and we can't keep everyone in jail because of overcrowding, so we have to let the rapist and murders out early. It's much more dangerous to have some schmuck passed out on his couch after smoking too much grass, gorging himself on Doritos, and exhausting himself with a prostitute than it is for a rapist child molester to be roaming the playgrounds.  

After all, we must hold ourselves to higher moral standards! And killing dirbags like this one for his crimes would be uncivlized and barbaric. It's not his fault he was a child molesting rapist. He was just a product of a bad environment and his mommy never gave him any love. 

:barf::barf::barf::barf::barf::barfn the spew-o-meter


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## Twin Fist (Dec 1, 2009)

Steve, i do not really have a problem with anything that YOU said, per se, i am just stating my own beliefs.



stevebjj said:


> At the risk of being overly defensive, there have been a couple of comments that make me wonder if they're pointed at me.  If so, please make it clear, because I'd be offended if someone suggested to me that I value the lives of murderers as much or more than the lives of cops.  And if you have that impression of me, or the impression that I don't like cops or honor their fallen, I haven't done a very good job of explaining myself.  If you disagree with something I've written, I'd appreciate it if you'd speak plainly.


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## Steve (Dec 1, 2009)

MJS said:


> Understood. I guess my point is, if I had a dollar for all those that claim to be reformed, are born again, etc., I'd be a rich, rich man. Who cares what a preacher says to the gov....I doubt the gov or any other non related LE person, has access to someones criminal records, and if they do, why do they, but the point is, given this guys long record, there should be nothing he could say, that would warrant his release. This guy is a first class POS, who IIRC, has a record dating back to his teens. That being said, for anyone to think he's reformed, needs their head examined, and that goes for the preacher and the gov.


In this specific instance, there were failures beyond Huckabee's.  Based upon what I've heard, I can't blame Huckabee entirely for this.  I might have some of the facts wrong, so if I'm mistaken, please let me know.  From what I understand, he was arrested as a teenager and sent to prison, where he served 11 years.  Huckabee commuted his sentence based upon the recommendations of the parole board and a clemency request that sounded like it was written by someone who was articulate and very, very familiar with what would be most likely to move Gov. Huckabee.  Huckabee considered his age at arrest (17, I think) among other things.  

What I can't understand is how a guy who had violated his parole and was being held in jail on a child rape charge was released on bail.  That baffles me.


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## Steve (Dec 1, 2009)

Twin Fist said:


> Steve, i do not really have a problem with anything that YOU said, per se, i am just stating my own beliefs.


Okay.  No problem.  When you emphasized ARE, it read to me like you were specifically addressing another post, and the only person in this thread who was remotely along those lines was me.  I'm glad that you don't believe that I would value the life of a murderer over that of a police officer.


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## MJS (Dec 2, 2009)

cdunn said:


> Criminal history is a part of the application for clemency in AR. In addition, a reccomendation is made by the parole board. Every possible red flag was raised. Huckabee was certainly given the opportunity to learn that this man was going to be a further problem.
> 
> The system exists specifically so that gross miscarriage of justice can be addressed. Huckabee is solely responsible for creating the opportunity for further failure. However, there were at least three major points at which this tragedy could have been prevented, if not more: every one of them needs to be addressed.
> 
> ...


 
As much as I'd like to think and hope that it would, although I have my doubts, but I really do hope that the actions of Hucklebee stay with him for a very, very long time.  I hope that the actions of this POS cop killer haunt Hucklebee for the rest of his pathetic life.  And I hope that his actions ruin any chance of him ever being in politics.  I dont follow politics, so I have no idea if he's active, inactive, whatever...I have no interest in the man.


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## MJS (Dec 2, 2009)

stevebjj said:


> In this specific instance, there were failures beyond Huckabee's. Based upon what I've heard, I can't blame Huckabee entirely for this. I might have some of the facts wrong, so if I'm mistaken, please let me know. From what I understand, he was arrested as a teenager and sent to prison, where he served 11 years. Huckabee commuted his sentence based upon the recommendations of the parole board and a clemency request that sounded like it was written by someone who was articulate and very, very familiar with what would be most likely to move Gov. Huckabee. Huckabee considered his age at arrest (17, I think) among other things.
> 
> What I can't understand is how a guy who had violated his parole and was being held in jail on a child rape charge was released on bail. That baffles me.


 
Thus, why I said earlier that the system was flawed.  There are some threads on the home invasion here in Cheshire, CT., in which the wife and 2 daughters were sexually assaulted and killed, the husband beated, but he survived and the house lit on fire.  The 2 pieces of **** that did this....were out on parole.  Yes, a mistake was made, as some paperwork was overlooked, but when you're dealing with pieces of **** like that, there should be little to no mistakes.  If more manpower is needed, then get it...period!


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## grydth (Dec 2, 2009)

As with many disasters, be they the freeing of a monster or the sinking of the Titanic, there are multiple causes..... snap that chain any of about 5 places and Clemmons is in jail and those officers are alive and well with their families.

Why aren't parole boards and governors held to the same standards ordinary police are? Look at all the threads here and in the media about this: Cop makes a quick decision in a violent situation, and they are second guessed relentlessly.... he shoulda used the taser and not the beanbag....should they have shot that guy.... etc

Now this is healthy in a democracy, and is one thing that keeps us from becoming a police state. But parole boards aren't acting in emergency situations. Their lives aren't on the line. They don't have a split second to react. They have a file and plenty of time to deliberate. Yet, over and over again they make the _*WRONG *_decision..... and that leads to more deaths, more rapes, more child abuses.

If a cop makes a decision involving too much force on a criminal, he gets suspended or fired. If a Governor and his parole board free a violent felon, resulting in death and destruction to innocent folks.... nothing....zero accountability, zero debate, zero consequences.

I guess I just don't understand. Shouldn't Mike Huckabee be held to the same standard (at least) of a beat cop?


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## celtic_crippler (Dec 2, 2009)

I try to be open minded.... I really do... but I just can't see entertaining the thought of freeing a child rapist at any point. For that matter I can't see entertaining the thought of giving them 3 hots and a cot instead of a .45 round to the dome either. 

I value life, and that's why I feel some scum are better off as mulch. Too many that have a negative impact on innocent life/lives are given a free pass to continue to commit crimes against life, as in this case. 

By not putting this dog down in the first place he was given the opportunity to negatively impact even more lives. There are now 4 dead police officers and I'm sure some of them had a spouse and children, not to mention brothers, sisters, mothers, fathers, other family and friends that are negatively affected as well. 

While we could be "softer" in some areas, we have definately gotten too "soft" on crime involving victims.


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