# The ___ hands



## wckf92 (Sep 23, 2016)

In the movie 'The Grandmaster'...there are several references to Gong Er's art (Xingyi?) having "the 64 hands"? Anybody know what that is? Thanks!


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## Xue Sheng (Sep 23, 2016)

Never heard of it in association with Xingyiquan, but there could be a form called that, there are various styles and lineages of Xingyi and what I know most about is Hebei

But I did just look around a bit and there appears to be a linear Bagua form know as 64 hands.

Wang Shi Tong Performs the 64 Hands Straight Line Method


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## wckf92 (Sep 23, 2016)

Hmmm...I'll have to watch the movie again to determine if it was in reference to xingyi or bagua

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## Xue Sheng (Sep 23, 2016)

Also, don't forget, it is a movie and it may very likely be moviefu with a real CMA name thrown it


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## wckf92 (Sep 23, 2016)

Xue Sheng said:


> Also, don't forget, it is a movie and it may very likely be moviefu with a real CMA name thrown it


Haha...understood!  [emoji2] 

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## Touch Of Death (Sep 23, 2016)

I'm sure it's a collection of basics, based off the 18 hand movements of Daruma. Start adding different shapes, your hand can take, and I'm sure you can reach 64. On the other hand, I have no idea why they used that number. I am confident, however, that it doesn't really matter.


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## Xue Sheng (Sep 23, 2016)

Touch Of Death said:


> I'm sure it's a collection of basics, based off the 18 hand movements of Daruma. Start adding different shapes, your hand can take, and I'm sure you can reach 64. On the other hand, I have no idea why they used that number. I am confident, however, that it doesn't really matter.



that sounds like The 18 Luohan Hands, which is Buddhist and from Shaolin. Xingyiquan is neither, however that is not to say that someone did not try and add them in somehow over the  years, or the people that wrote the movie the master just thought is sounded cool and threw it in


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## mograph (Sep 24, 2016)

Xue Sheng said:


> Also, don't forget, it is a movie and it may very likely be moviefu with a real CMA name thrown it


HE KNOWS THE BUDDHA PALM!


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## Touch Of Death (Sep 24, 2016)

Xue Sheng said:


> that sounds like The 18 Luohan Hands, which is Buddhist and from Shaolin. Xingyiquan is neither, however that is not to say that someone did not try and add them in somehow over the  years, or the people that wrote the movie the master just thought is sounded cool and threw it in


Daruma, is just how you would say, what ever you just said, in India.


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## oaktree (Oct 24, 2016)

She does Baguazhang I can tell as soon as the hand shaped then the circle walk then mud sliding step, maybe Cheng or fu style.


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## greytowhite (Oct 26, 2016)

Yes, in The Grandmaster she practices her father's combination of baguazhang and xingyi. You can see 64 Hand/Palm sets from a lot of different lines of baguazhang. Many are descended from Liu Dekuan.


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## oaktree (Oct 26, 2016)

That has always been my thing, why learn 64 palms when you can just learn xingyiquan as a straight set. I think old eight palms and linking Palms, and fixed stake Palms and eight animal form and the various condition exercises is enough. I think xingyiquan five element form and animal form is superior to 64 palm, however, I find eight old palm and fixed palm along with circle walking superior to xingyiquan five element.


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## greytowhite (Oct 27, 2016)

I think the 64 Hands is largely from the Liuhequan both Liu Dekuan and Dong Haichuan studied under the Li family in Cangzhou as well as some xingyi.


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## Mattattack (Nov 5, 2016)

I think it was supposed to be some kind of synthesis of Xingyi and Bagua.  Her father taught his students Xingyi but not Bagua because "Bagua was deadly."

....I have issues with the logic in that movie


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## blindsage (Nov 6, 2016)

Another thought is that the first students of Bagua were all (but one) very accomplished martial artists.  The thought is that the 64 palms (as I've akways heard it called) may have been invented to teach students a generation or two later who were not previously trained a lot of the basics.  The simplicity and linearness of the movements make this appear very likely to me.

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## greytowhite (Nov 7, 2016)

blindsage the linear training was originally part of baguazhang without the need for a 64 Hands set. If you look at the videos of Yin style bagua on the traditionalstudies YouTube channel you will see that they had already broken each animal down to linear practice for each strike and then practiced combining strikes with multiple turns before even getting to circle walking. A lot of the 64 anything has to do with Cheng Tinghua's group assigning connections to traditional Chinese cosmogony so that the Bagua (rebel society) types would accept it as "internal" and not foreign. IIRC the 64 Hands is similar to Gao bagua's houtian practice - once one has the body qualities of the mother and linking palms then application is important. Unfortunately, a lot of people have a hard time connecting the evasive footwork of walking the circle to linear practice and then to application.


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## Touch Of Death (Nov 8, 2016)

greytowhite said:


> blindsage the linear training was originally part of baguazhang without the need for a 64 Hands set. If you look at the videos of Yin style bagua on the traditionalstudies YouTube channel you will see that they had already broken each animal down to linear practice for each strike and then practiced combining strikes with multiple turns before even getting to circle walking. A lot of the 64 anything has to do with Cheng Tinghua's group assigning connections to traditional Chinese cosmogony so that the Bagua (rebel society) types would accept it as "internal" and not foreign. IIRC the 64 Hands is similar to Gao bagua's houtian practice - once one has the body qualities of the mother and linking palms then application is important. Unfortunately, a lot of people have a hard time connecting the evasive footwork of walking the circle to linear practice and then to application.


No, I'm with ya man.


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