# The Sai



## DrewTheTKDStudent1992 (Feb 1, 2021)

Many of us have an idea of what they are. Those metal weapons with the two prongs on it's side. Many comic book fans are also aware of a certain green turtle with an anger management problem who uses them 






What are your thoughts on these weapons, do you use them or want to use them? How has it shaped your weapons training experience?


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## isshinryuronin (Feb 1, 2021)

Give it up, Drew.  Most of us who have something to contribute to this subject won't want to waste time with you.  Your posts on the bo are a good example.


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## DrewTheTKDStudent1992 (Feb 2, 2021)

isshinryuronin said:


> Give it up, Drew.  Most of us who have something to contribute to this subject won't want to waste time with you.  Your posts on the bo are a good example.



Sorry, I came to learn.


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## Tez3 (Feb 2, 2021)

isshinryuronin said:


> Give it up, Drew.  Most of us who have something to contribute to this subject won't want to waste time with you.  Your posts on the bo are a good example.




Harsh.


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## Flying Crane (Feb 2, 2021)

First, most people here know what the sai are.  

I have a pair that I bought in the early-1980s when I was barely a teenager, before I had any training in the martial arts.  With the sai, I bought Fumio Demura’s book, _Sai, Karate Weapon of Self Defense.  _From that book, I learned two things:  how to flip the sai back and forth from a blade-foreword grip to an inverted grip with the blade back along the forearm, and that the sai can be gripped by the blade, and the prongs used to hook a weapon.  Oh, I learned a third thing too: that people would carry a third sai that was used to throw at an enemy.  Oh, and a fourth thing: the author recommended in the book that a student not attempt to train in the sai until reaching at least the rank of brown belt, to develop a foundation upon which learning the sai would be more successful.  So that is what i did with them, flipped them back and forth.  And that’s it.  I never trained in a system that used the sai, I never got any real instruction in their use.  They sit now in a trunk, and rarely see the light of day.  

To parallel with my advice in your threads on bo: get instruction from a knowledgeable and skilled instructor, and get his/her advice on what would be a source for quality sai, if you are looking to buy some. 

I appreciate your enthusiasm.  I’ve been there when I was younger, craving to learn something for which I hadn’t yet found an instructor.  But going it alone and trying to figure things out, and asking for information about the weapon in a generic sort of way isn’t the way to do it.  You will not progress, you will simply encounter frustration that will likely kill your passion for it, and what you do manage to figure out will be poor quality, inefficient, and largely dysfunctional.  

Let’s be honest about weapons:  they have a certain obvious intuitive use.  Stab them with the pointy end, cut them with the sharp edge, hit them with the blunt part.  This is not difficult to understand.  Anyone can pick one up and make themselves a hazard to those around them.  In that sense, anyone can use a weapon without training, and even do so effectively.  

But without instruction, your technique quality will be poor and inefficient and rudimentary, and could lead to damaging the weapon.  You will never understand the full potential that the weapon has, will never understand what is capable with it.  Also, with guidance you will better understand how to safely handle the weapon so you don’t injure yourself and those around you who are your training partners. 

So I say: get an instructor if you don’t yet have one, or if you no longer are able to go back to your previous one, or if your previous instructor is not competent to teach the sai.  If Covid is the issue and schools aren’t open, then you might need to be patient.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Feb 2, 2021)

Most people that I've talked to, that have fooled around with a sai, think that it's meant as a thrusting weapon, or to essentially make strong jabs with the blunt end.

I was taught (and have used it effectively against some iaido and hema dudes..not so effectively against fma or fencers) that it's intent is actually more of a parry dagger. Basically you hook a sword/longer weapon in the middle, both of their hands are ideally holding it, and then you go in and strike with your main weapon (or if you don't have one try to grapple) before they can disentangle it on you.


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## Xue Sheng (Feb 2, 2021)

Fumio Demura Karate Weapons:the Sai at 2:41


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## yak sao (Feb 2, 2021)

I previously trained a hakka Style before I trained Wing Chun and we used the Chinese version of the Sai.

While there was thrusting a lot of the attacks were smashing movements using the side of the blade to come down on the collarbone, head, arms Etc


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## isshinryuronin (Feb 2, 2021)

Tez3 said:


> Harsh.


Maybe, but my comment to Drew was not based on his single post.  My reaction is from the several Bo threads.  He has shown in the past a pattern of disregarding offered information and declined despite several requests for more details to clarify his question.  Here are just a few examples"


Tez3 said:


> don't say Bo staff it upsets the purists as Bo means staff


Sound advice (at least to us "purists.")  Your advice was echoed and discussed in detail by MANY others.  The result of all this input regarding the redundancy of "bo staff?"  See the next quote:


DrewTheTKDStudent1992 said:


> So I'm looking to get a new Bo Staff


Enough said.

His questions re: the bo required more info for forum members to help, but he did not respond.


dancingalone said:


> Depends on the style. As always ask your teacher.





isshinryuronin said:


> What style? Twirling-swinging Chinese, or harder hitting Okinawan?





Graywalker said:


> I agree with the others, ask your instructor, what will it be used for.





Flying Crane said:


> The OP has not given further details of what system he trains or what the methodology is





gpseymour said:


> Without knowing the intended use (the staff fighting style), it’s based on nothing.



Now on his recent OP regarding bo diameter, he STILL does not offer the necessary info for people to help!!  Does he not care to learn anything?  Is he trolling?  He poses questions and ignores the advice/answers.  Just seems a little disrespectful.  People take their time to try to help him but he doesn't seem to appreciate it by his ignoring their attempts.

Now on this new sai posting, it looks like another non-serious post - so fluffy and unfocused.  I saw this just seconds after his last bo post, so was a little annoyed.  He still seems to be playing at MA after these few years.  If one is serious, fine.  But then respond likewise and respect others.


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## Buka (Feb 2, 2021)

isshinryuronin said:


> Maybe, but my comment to Drew was not based on his single post.  My reaction is from the several Bo threads.  He has shown in the past a pattern of disregarding offered information and declined despite several requests for more details to clarify his question.  Here are just a few examples"
> 
> Sound advice (at least to us "purists.")  Your advice was echoed and discussed in detail by MANY others.  The result of all this input regarding the redundancy of "bo staff?"  See the next quote:
> 
> ...



Sigh. (see what I did there?)


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## Tez3 (Feb 3, 2021)

isshinryuronin said:


> Maybe, but my comment to Drew was not based on his single post.  My reaction is from the several Bo threads.  He has shown in the past a pattern of disregarding offered information and declined despite several requests for more details to clarify his question.  Here are just a few examples"
> 
> Sound advice (at least to us "purists.")  Your advice was echoed and discussed in detail by MANY others.  The result of all this input regarding the redundancy of "bo staff?"  See the next quote:
> 
> ...




Er, just ignore him?


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## isshinryuronin (Feb 3, 2021)

Tez3 said:


> Er, just ignore him?



Yeah, there's that.  I was admittedly irritated by him at the moment.  But my post in response to you was to address you thinking I was "harsh."  For some reason that bothered me more than Drew's posts.  Maybe I have a MA crush on you?


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## Tez3 (Feb 4, 2021)

isshinryuronin said:


> Yeah, there's that.  I was admittedly irritated by him at the moment.  But my post in response to you was to address you thinking I was "harsh."  For some reason that bothered me more than Drew's posts.  Maybe I have a MA crush on you?



Oh I say


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