# Dating in the dojo



## marlon (Jun 28, 2005)

I have two bb who have started dating.  Prof. Kimo felt that such a practice should be discouraged.  Any thoughts on bb dating, students dating, instructors dating students?  None of this pertains to frivolous indiscretions but real intentions for something long term.

Respectfully,
Marlon


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## Seabrook (Jun 28, 2005)

Instructors dating students is a bad idea.

That said, I met my wife that way, and we have been married for 4 years, and have two little girls already (Morgan is 3, and Madison is 7 months). 

Jamie Seabrook

www.seabrook.gotkenpo.com


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## marlon (Jun 28, 2005)

That's good to hear , i hope all continues to be well with you and your family.  What of the question of bb dating within the dojo?


Respectfully,
marlon


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## Andrew Green (Jun 28, 2005)

People date, It's going to happen whether you like it or not...

 If someone is using a school as a fishing pond that is inappropriate, but with a group of people that share similar interests in a social environment there is a good chance of some relationships forming.

 Just keep classes "professional" and remember that if it ends you will either have to keep seeing each other in class regullarly or one of you will quit.


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## MJS (Jun 28, 2005)

marlon said:
			
		

> I have two bb who have started dating.  Prof. Kimo felt that such a practice should be discouraged.  Any thoughts on bb dating, students dating, instructors dating students?  None of this pertains to frivolous indiscretions but real intentions for something long term.
> 
> Respectfully,
> Marlon



Andrew made some great points!  It is possible to do, but like it was said, things need to be kept on a professional level.  If things don't work out, it could lead to one or both of the people involved to leave the school.  

Mike


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## Spook (Jun 28, 2005)

Over the past decade at our school i have seen plenty of stuents/instructors date. 90% of the time it ends badly and one of the parties quits.  i would discourage dating within the school but also realize that it happens. You've got some good advice here, keep your school professional and you should be fine.


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## searcher (Jun 28, 2005)

I met my wife at the dojo.   I was teaching the childrens and teens classes.    She started training in the classes I was taking.   Over the years we became good friends.   When she got to Brown Belt she needed some teaching time before she could test for BB and I needed an assistant instructor.    Two months after she started assisting me we started dating.   One year and three months later we got married.   we have been married for 3 years9 months and 6 days.   It has been the greatest thing I ever did.   It worked out very good for us and it can for others as well.   The key is that you can't mix things that happen inside and outside the dojo.   It will make you appreciate each other more and can draw you closer together.


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## Rich Parsons (Jun 28, 2005)

You can search the site for Dating Dojo for mroe threads but here are three:

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18069&highlight=dating+dojo

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10090&highlight=dating+dojo

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16792&highlight=dating+dojo


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## gmkuoha (Jun 28, 2005)

Dating in the same dojo is not recommended in our schools. Many times if the couple were together before they joined then it would be all right, but we are not a dating service nor are we Payton Place. There have been many occasions that turned out pretty bad when allowed these types of things to occur. One of our black belts was training at a Shoalin Kenpo School and the instructor was playing to his wife and eventually took her away from him. Then his good friend also was training in the same style and another instructor had an affair with his girlfriend. I think they complained to the seniors but nothing was done. If this happened in our school there would have been some instructors still harboring their wounds. That is not right and it's plain disgusting and unethical for any instructor to "go after" a married student or an attached student. Yes, I understand that it takes 2 to tangle but when an instructor is placed in this position of power and  abuses his/hers responsibility, then they ought to be shot or at the very least, castorated. Things like this have occurred in some of our schools and it has been  brought to my attention. Depending on the situation, it can sometimes get pretty ugly and if there is another relationship that is being destroyed, it most definitely does get pretty ugly. I have had to terminate several instructors for the same reason so each individual situation is different and they all have to be handled on their own merits.

 I met my wife at class (I was the instructor) but there was no other attachments and we have been married now for  24 years and have produced the future grandmaster of the Chinese Kara-Ho Kempo Karate System.

 Just my .02,
 Grandmaster Kuoha


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## evenflow1121 (Jun 28, 2005)

You cant really stop falling for a particular person, like Andrew said, if its going to happen, its going to happen, you may be sparring and in comes this person that makes your heart start beating a mile a minute and the next thing you know, you are down on the mat cause you didnt see the punch headed your way. However; using the dojo as a dating service is never appropriate.

It is also very interesting what Grandmaster Kuoha posted, you reminded me of an incident that happenned to a good friend of mine.  I good buddy of mine  runs a martial arts school along with his wife, and she is also a bb and teaches private lessons, and a professional, I believe a lawyer was taking private lessons with them, and eventually tried to hit on her.


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## kenpopr (Jun 30, 2005)

I just opened my first school a couple of months ago and I do not condone or approve of using the dojo as a dating service.  Yes, it is human nature and it is unavoidable, but it is my responsability as the Professor to teach them that everything has it's time and place. . .and the dojo is neither the place or time for dating.  If I notice activity of this sort I simply talk to them as the adults we are.  I can't stop them from dating or meeting outside the dojo but there is no hugging and kissing and flirting within the dojo.  This is something that can seriously affect the dojo's image apart from the fcat of all the issues that it can bring (e.g. breakups!)

Now, on the other side, I have been married for 8 years and have two beautiful kids and yes I also met my wife in a dojo.  Hmm. . . .weird, isn't it?!  lol  )

Full salute to all!

Luis Gines
www.KenpoPR.com


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## marlon (Jun 30, 2005)

Wow,

hugging and kissing in the dojo is something i never even considered!  That is completely unacceptable and if any of my students did that we would have to have a long discussion about respect, ettique and are they nuts!!!

Respectfully,
Marlon


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## terryl965 (Jun 30, 2005)

A dojaang is about respect and dignity, so I cannot see anybody hugging and kissing in one except they are there to be married. Dating can accure any where wether the instructor like it or not you can not dictate to a person who he or she can see, you can ask them to please keep out the the dojaang.

Terry L Stoker


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## kenpopr (Jul 1, 2005)

marlon said:
			
		

> Wow,
> 
> hugging and kissing in the dojo is something i never even considered! That is completely unacceptable and if any of my students did that we would have to have a long discussion about respect, ettique and are they nuts!!!
> 
> ...


 
Just for the record!!

This does NOT happen in my dojo. . . . .BUT I have seen it before. . . .

Full Salute!


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## RevIV (Aug 9, 2005)

I strongly stress that people do not date in the dojo.  But if it is a student to student relationship there really is not much that you can do.  I have a lot of teenage students and that is what they do at their age.  I also have a lot of assistant instructors and Sensei's that help me out.  They know the rules, if they feel that they have to date a student they are no longer allowed to be a sensei or an instructor.  Flip side is my fiancee is a student but i met her at a friends school and even after we became serious i strongly urged her to stay at my friends school and she understood the reasoning. She stayed at his school for another 2 years after we started dating. Now we live together and are getting married in less than a year so she trains with me, but it is hard!!

Jesse


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## arnisador (Aug 9, 2005)

Hugging and kissing in the dojo? Ugh!


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## Kenpojujitsu3 (Aug 11, 2005)

Some Dojo Dating Points for Instructors to consider.

(1) If you have a dojo and students long enough *it will happen*, be prepared.
(2) If it doesn't work out it will probably get ugly and one or both may quit.
(3) Instructors dating students? If everyone is adult enough it works fine as the color of peoples belts in no way determines how they mesh or not. we can't exactly adopt a program like an official school system can we (i.e. you are removed from the system for dating a student)? Maybe, but you'd run out of instructors and students real quick for trying to "run their personal lives outside the dojo" heard this too many times during my travels/training.
(4) Instructors dating students? Not a good idea if said instructor has any say so in students rank promotions (can we say favoritism here? sure we can)
(5) Keep in mind that a martial arts school is considered a "social meeting place" as well as "a place of learning" and that's *two* places where relationships tend to happen all rolled into one. Again be very prepared the odds are against you. LOL
(6) If you're main passion is martial arts you'd probably want someone that shares or at the very least understands that passion. Now where do you think you're most likely to find someone like that? You got it! a dojo! A lot of people training (meaning your students and maybe your instructors) think this way. Recognize it and prepare for it.
(7) Students dating students? Think about when you where in school. Exactly. A martial arts school is still a school so students will tend to date just like at any other school. Again be prepared
(8) Preparation? Can you talk to your students on a personal level about things other than martial arts? you should be able to that's part of being an instructor.
(9) Preparation? Who do we listen to most in life? You guessed it! friends and family. Your students should at the very least be good friends with you who are comfortable with talking with you. If not, work on that because it's a *huge* part of being a *successfull* instructor.
(10) Keep in mind how many martial artists state they met their spouse in the dojo. Listen to/Read what they say and notice how happy their tone seems to be about it. Something to think about. yes it's a risk but a saying goes "the reward matches the risk." Food for thought for the ones who are upright against it.

I choose to recognize that adults are just that and are going to date who they choose wherever they meet them. I cannot be the warden of my club so instead I'll be the coach if that makes sense to anyone. Especially since many of my students exceed my own age. I don't exactly fit the "father figure" persona in that case. Thoughts?

Salute! and Take Care.


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## Grenadier (Aug 12, 2005)

The above post by James Hawkins summed up most of my thoughts, so I'll just add a few more:

If you want to date someone within the same dojo, then you need to remember this: 

* Keep your lives in the dojo separate from what goes on outside of the dojo.  Leave your outside life outside of the dojo, as you are there to train.  

* Public displays of affection in the dojo can get very distracting.  A quick goodbye peck on the lips to each other or a quick hug is one thing, but a flat out passionate kiss is really not appropriate.

* If something goes bad, and neither you nor you significant other (or ex-significant other) wishes to quit the dojo, then remember to take your bickering outside the dojo.  Again, do not distract the others in the dojo.  They are also there to train, not to listen to your grievances.  


If you are an instructor, and have an eye for one of your students:

* Understand that while you are in the dojo, your primary purpose there is as that person's sensei (or sempai, shihan, etc).  At the same time, when you're outside of the dojo, you're an ordinary Joe.  As stated above, keep dojo matters in the dojo, and outside world matters outside of the dojo.


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## searcher (Aug 12, 2005)

arnisador said:
			
		

> Hugging and kissing in the dojo? Ugh!


Nothing wrong with a little PDA if it is kept clean.


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## Kenpojujitsu3 (Aug 12, 2005)

Grenadier said:
			
		

> The above post by James Hawkins summed up most of my thoughts, so I'll just add a few more:
> 
> If you want to date someone within the same dojo, then you need to remember this:
> 
> ...


Well Said


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## Kenpojujitsu3 (Aug 12, 2005)

searcher said:
			
		

> Nothing wrong with a little PDA if it is kept clean.


Could you elaborate on "clean" please for the purposes of discussion.

Respectfully,
James :asian:


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## RickRed (Aug 12, 2005)

marlon said:
			
		

> I have two bb who have started dating. Prof. Kimo felt that such a practice should be discouraged. Any thoughts on bb dating, students dating, instructors dating students? None of this pertains to frivolous indiscretions but real intentions for something long term.
> 
> Respectfully,
> Marlon


Do you have a no dating policy for instructors on paper?

I know at work places, they try to do that but enforcing it is really tough.


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## marlon (Aug 12, 2005)

No I have no policy in place and i think it would be unrealistic to enforce it.  if an instructor showed enough bad character for me to think s/he was abusing the position well i would deal withthat directly in the best intersts of the dojo and students..but no policy.


Respectfully,
Marlon


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## RevIV (Aug 12, 2005)

At my school the instructors know that it is their job to help and educate the students not to seek out a relationship.  This is not on paper but spoken directly to them along with all the other responsibilities that go along with being a teacher.  People choose to be teachers, if they cannot handle the responsibilities of that role then they do not need to teach.  Now with that being an underlying tone of the way we try to do it,  we all know things happen and it could end up being your soul mate, so each person is handled differently, very gray area.  We all know someone out there at one point in our lives that used their position to date as many people as possible, that is unacceptable.

Jesse


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## Kenpojujitsu3 (Aug 12, 2005)

RevIV said:
			
		

> At my school the instructors know that it is their job to help and educate the students not to seek out a relationship. This is not on paper but spoken directly to them along with all the other responsibilities that go along with being a teacher. People choose to be teachers, if they cannot handle the responsibilities of that role then they do not need to teach. Now with that being an underlying tone of the way we try to do it, we all know things happen and it could end up being your soul mate, so each person is handled differently, very gray area. We all know someone out there at one point in our lives that used their position to date as many people as possible, that is unacceptable.
> 
> Jesse


God Post


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## RevIV (Aug 13, 2005)

Kenpojujitsu3 said:
			
		

> God Post


Thank You,
Jesse Dwire
dpkempo.com


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## ave_turuta (Aug 13, 2005)

Hello!

 The only parallelism I can think of is the rules we have in academic institutions. In the academic world (I am speaking of college level) there are very clear rules against people dating when one is in a position of authority over the other. So for instance, an undergrad should under no circumstances date a teaching assistant, much less a professor, and the same with grad students (no dating between grad students and their professors, much less their advisors). The logic is quite simple: if everything goes well, there is always the possibility of influencing the grades of the student; if something goes awry, the person in a position of power can use his/her superior status in order to terminate the career of the student. In fact, teaching assistant at the institution I teach at have a very specific set of guidelines and number 10 in the "10 rules" is "no dating, period." 

 However, this only applies to situations like that explained above. I do not think there is anything wrong in students dating amongst themselves, but if an instructor dates a student _and _that instructor has a saying in the promotion of the student, I believe the right thing to do would be to either (a) have the student change venues and train at a different school; or (b) have the instructor relinquish his or her saying in the promotion process. If there is no direct power relationship between the two (i.e. if the instructor has no saying in the promotion of a particular student) then I do not see anything wrong with them dating as long as they behave respectfully and politely with each other and with the other students inside the dojo. 

 My 2 cents! 
 Peace, 
 A.T.


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## Kenpojujitsu3 (Aug 13, 2005)

ave_turuta said:
			
		

> Hello!
> 
> *The only parallelism I can think of is the rules we have in academic institutions*. In the academic world (I am speaking of college level) there are very clear rules against people dating when one is in a position of authority over the other. So for instance, an undergrad should under no circumstances date a teaching assistant, much less a professor, and the same with grad students (no dating between grad students and their professors, much less their advisors). *The logic is quite simple: if everything goes well, there is always the possibility of influencing the grades of the student; if something goes awry, the person in a position of power can use his/her superior status in order to terminate the career of the student*. In fact, teaching assistant at the institution I teach at have a very specific set of guidelines and number 10 in the "10 rules" is "no dating, period."
> 
> ...


(3) Instructors dating students? If everyone is adult enough it works fine as the color of peoples belts in no way determines how they mesh or not. we can't exactly adopt a program like an official school system can we (i.e. you are removed from the system for dating a student)? Maybe, but you'd run out of instructors and students real quick for trying to "run their personal lives outside the dojo" heard this too many times during my travels/training.

(4) Instructors dating students? Not a good idea if said instructor has any say so in students rank promotions (can we say favoritism here? sure we can)

From my post above.  I'm with ya!


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## searcher (Aug 13, 2005)

Kenpojujitsu3 said:
			
		

> Could you elaborate on "clean" please for the purposes of discussion.
> 
> Respectfully,
> James :asian:


No groping or hanging all over each other.   As long as it does not turn into a make-out session then kissing is OK.   Holding hands is not bad either, but holding other things is not appropriate.   Just act like responsible citizens, not lusting teenagers.


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## Kenpojujitsu3 (Aug 13, 2005)

searcher said:
			
		

> No groping or hanging all over each other. As long as it does not turn into a make-out session then kissing is OK. Holding hands is not bad either, but holding other things is not appropriate. Just act like responsible citizens, not lusting teenagers.


Gotcha, agreed.


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## RickRed (Aug 15, 2005)

marlon said:
			
		

> No I have no policy in place and i think it would be unrealistic to enforce it. if an instructor showed enough bad character for me to think s/he was abusing the position well i would deal withthat directly in the best intersts of the dojo and students..but no policy.
> 
> 
> Respectfully,
> Marlon


If that is the case, then the only thing you can do is make sure that there is professionalism during training, any other time is their own business.  If they are letting the relationship spill onto the training floor either negative or positive, then it is no good.

Same with the work place.  The no frat policy basically covers any inappropriate conduct that won't fall under sexual harassment because it is mutual and not forced.

If there is not written policy, someone could really take you to town for kicking them out or firing them for something that was clearly stated.  If it is something you feel strongly about, it should be written down.  If you are going to accept it, focus on the conduct on the floor - as you said.

In the end, unless they are paid employees, it is a rec. activity no different than a gym.  If someone violates the membership agreement, kick them out.  If they are an employee and are fraternizing with client/customers, fire them.  Either way, it needs to be clearly stated if it is going to be grounds for ousting them.


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