# Looking for a trustworthy school in my area



## Onesword23 (Jan 4, 2018)

Hi, I'm new to these forums and I was wondering if anyone knows about a traditional martial arts school that's been around for a very long time with a very reputable and good instructor from the NY Long Island area. Someone who's humble and teaches real legit arts, from spirituality to good exercises, effective self defense, does hard training etc. Someone who's not a fake or looking to just make money or use you as a punching bag. I'm trying to avoid places that have too many kids in the classes and are all about quickly promoting you to higher belt ranks.

Thank you.


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## JR 137 (Jan 4, 2018)

Where on Long Island?  Are the 5 boroughs reasonably accessible?  If so, you’re pretty much in the Mecca of MA in the US.

Is there a specific art you’re after, ie karate, TKD, kung fu, etc?  Or are you broader in the sense of striking or grappling?

The possibilities are pretty much infinite.   We need more information to help you narrow it down.


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## Onesword23 (Jan 4, 2018)

JR 137 said:


> Where on Long Island?  Are the 5 boroughs reasonably accessible?  If so, you’re pretty much in the Mecca of MA in the US.
> 
> Is there a specific art you’re after, ie karate, TKD, kung fu, etc?  Or are you broader in the sense of striking or grappling?
> 
> The possibilities are pretty much infinite.   We need more information to help you narrow it down.



I'm looking for any style involved with kung fu, karate, jiu-jitsu, aikido that may offer grappling, striking, external and internal fitness, self defense (competition as optional but not the main goal) from an authentic teacher that can be trusted and not from some scam artist. I prefer Long Island rather than the boroughs due to my job scheduling and distance. the city can also get quite expensive too.


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## Onesword23 (Jan 4, 2018)

The style is not important, it's more about finding a traditional martial arts school that's been around for years, has a great reputation and a patient teacher who teaches the style in a legit way and can really be useful in self defense. Thanks for the help.


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## pgsmith (Jan 4, 2018)

Just an opinion, but I think you would be better served by researching and finding out what martial arts are in the area in which you wish to stay, then come here and ask about the school and instructor individually. You should know that it sounds to me like you are asking people to do your research for you, and that's not a good thing.

  I'm sure that's not how you mean it to come across, but that's how it appears.

  Good luck in your search!


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## CB Jones (Jan 4, 2018)

pgsmith said:


> You should know that it sounds to me like you are asking people to do your research for you, and that's not a good thing.



Too me I understood it as him asking people familiar with that area if they have any recommendations not asking people to research it.


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## Onesword23 (Jan 4, 2018)

pgsmith said:


> Just an opinion, but I think you would be better served by researching and finding out what martial arts are in the area in which you wish to stay, then come here and ask about the school and instructor individually. You should know that it sounds to me like you are asking people to do your research for you, and that's not a good thing.
> 
> I'm sure that's not how you mean it to come across, but that's how it appears.
> 
> Good luck in your search!



Thank you for the advise, sorry if that's how it sounded. That's not my intentions. I've been doing some more research of places that might suit my style of choice and if any of you know or have information on whether these places are reputable legit and any information on the instructors of which ones are truly the most caring, understanding and a great teacher, please let me know.

American Black Belt Academy, by Tom Lavarco
Ling Nam Sui Lam Kung Fu Academy, by sifu Mark
Martial Art Institute, by sensei Anthony
Long Island Asian studies, by Tom Collings
Goshinkan Dojo, by sensei Jeff Lovering

Thank you


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## Tony Dismukes (Jan 4, 2018)

Onesword23 said:


> Thank you for the advise, sorry if that's how it sounded. That's not my intentions. I've been doing some more research of places that might suit my style of choice and if any of you know or have information on whether these places are reputable legit and any information on the instructors of which ones are truly the most caring, understanding and a great teacher, please let me know.
> 
> American Black Belt Academy, by Tom Lavarco
> Ling Nam Sui Lam Kung Fu Academy, by sifu Mark
> ...


Do you have websites for any of these?


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## JR 137 (Jan 4, 2018)

Being in Seido Karate myself, I know of a dojo in Bethpage, run by Sei Shihan Maureen Rouse.  I’ve never been in her dojo, so I don’t know much of it personally.  I’ve met her and a few higher ranking students of hers, and I have nothing but good impressions.

Regardless of how I or anyone else feels about a teacher/dojo, that doesn’t mean it’ll be a good fit for you personally.  Someone can have impeccable credentials and references, and then when you meet them it just doesn’t click for you.  It’s happened to me a few times in my search too.

The best bet is to make a list of everything in your area.  Cross off the ones you can’t afford, the ones that conflict with your schedule, etc.  Visit the rest within reason.  You’ll see a huge variation in the arts in general, how they’re taught, and who’s training there.

Within the striking styles/schools, you’re going to see a lot of differences in level of contact.  Some schools are bare knuckle, some are hard contact with protective gear, some are no contact at all.  If going the striking route, you need to find a level of contact you’re comfortable with for the long haul.  That’ll eliminate a lot of places right off the bat.

Grappling is grappling.  Sure there’s variation as to how hard they go, but compared to striking, there’s not very much variation in that regard.

What else?  You’re in an expensive area to live.  I used to live in Westchester, so I know the relative cost of living.  Training may be cheap in some select dojos, but overall they’re going to be a good bit more expensive than the norm here.  Don’t get scared off when they tell you $150+ per month and an annual contract, plus additional costs of belts/promotions.  As you know, rent ain’t cheap in your neck of the woods.  The tuition has to cover the rent and overhead as a minimum.   

If you’re willing to commute to Manhattan, there’s tons of great dojos. I have to give a shout out to Seido’s honbu (headquarters) dojo near the Flatiron Building.  I’m in Albany, so it’s not my dojo, but it’s my teacher’s teacher’s dojo.


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## Anarax (Jan 4, 2018)

Onesword23 said:


> Hi, I'm new to these forums and I was wondering if anyone knows about a traditional martial arts school that's been around for a very long time with a very reputable and good instructor from the NY Long Island area. Someone who's humble and teaches real legit arts, from spirituality to good exercises, effective self defense, does hard training etc. Someone who's not a fake or looking to just make money or use you as a punching bag. I'm trying to avoid places that have too many kids in the classes and are all about quickly promoting you to higher belt ranks.
> 
> Thank you.



To narrow your search down, look up all schools within driving distance and list them. You can get a general feel and the main focus of a school by looking at their websites. You could then cross some off your list that don't match your style criteria. Visiting the actual schools that match your criteria will give you a lot of insight what each school has to offer. Most schools will let you try out one or a few classes for free.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Jan 4, 2018)

Sending a pm instead.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Jan 4, 2018)

.


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## Onesword23 (Jan 4, 2018)

JR 137 said:


> Being in Seido Karate myself, I know of a dojo in Bethpage, run by Sei Shihan Maureen Rouse.  I’ve never been in her dojo, so I don’t know much of it personally.  I’ve met her and a few higher ranking students of hers, and I have nothing but good impressions.
> 
> Regardless of how I or anyone else feels about a teacher/dojo, that doesn’t mean it’ll be a good fit for you personally.  Someone can have impeccable credentials and references, and then when you meet them it just doesn’t click for you.  It’s happened to me a few times in my search too.
> 
> ...



Hmm ..I will definitely check her dojo out, thanks. Do you know if she's patient? Has been teaching for a while and covers all the concepts and aspects of fighting from standing to ground and does internal training? There' lots of places by me that I went to try and didn't like cause they were too focused on being like mcdojos. Also, you are right. It really depends what is the best fit for me and it all comes down to travel distance, money, timing, good training and an instructor that can work with me. Like you said it can get quite expensive by my area but I'll try to do the best I can in finding the proper school and teacher and hopefully not so far away. At least for right now, I'm more focused on places locally that have been around for a long time teaching.


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## Onesword23 (Jan 4, 2018)

Anarax said:


> To narrow your search down, look up all schools within driving distance and list them. You can get a general feel and the main focus of a school by looking at their websites. You could then cross some off your list that don't match your style criteria. Visiting the actual schools that match your criteria will give you a lot of insight what each school has to offer. Most schools will let you try out one or a few classes for free.



I will do that, the places I listed are ones that I found that were in driving distance but I don't know much about those schools and not sure of anyone that does.


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## jks9199 (Jan 5, 2018)

You have an interesting set of criteria. I'm wondering why you're stressing patient so much, because it's not something people often look for in a martial arts instructor. Perhaps if he told us more about why you want these specific criteria, someone might be able to help you more. You also listed several schools, and as of the others have told you, visit them. That's the only way, in my perspective -- but you might feel it is completely the opposite when you visit.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


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## JR 137 (Jan 5, 2018)

Onesword23 said:


> Hmm ..I will definitely check her dojo out, thanks. Do you know if she's patient? Has been teaching for a while and covers all the concepts and aspects of fighting from standing to ground and does internal training? There' lots of places by me that I went to try and didn't like cause they were too focused on being like mcdojos. Also, you are right. It really depends what is the best fit for me and it all comes down to travel distance, money, timing, good training and an instructor that can work with me. Like you said it can get quite expensive by my area but I'll try to do the best I can in finding the proper school and teacher and hopefully not so far away. At least for right now, I'm more focused on places locally that have been around for a long time teaching.


Seido doesn’t have any ground fighting that I’ve seen.  Going by her rank/title (6th dan) she’s been in Seido for at least 30 years, probably closer to 40.  She’s probably been teaching for about 3/4 of that time.  As far as patience, everyone’s idea of that is different.

Seido has an element of meditation to it.  We have a monthly meditation class at our dojo, as do the other dojos that I know of.  It’s not a requirement for promotion, but I’d be very surprised if she does hold that class too.  If that’s what you mean by “internal.”

I’ve never been to her dojo personally, so I can’t give any insight as to the atmosphere of it; I can only say I’ve met her and a few of her higher rank students through being in the organization.  They were very good people and martial artists.  I can’t comment on their day to day stuff.  

Regardless of all of that, the only way to know if that dojo or any other dojo is a good fit is to go visit and ask questions in person.  Visit many dojos. Most will give a free introductory lesson or two.


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## Chris Parker (Jan 5, 2018)

Hmm... first off, welcome aboard. I genuinely mean that... which I'm emphasising as this will be a little blunt.

You have no idea what you're even looking for.

At the moment, you're simply listing things you don't know, but have a form of imagining/fantasy about, and are looking for that fantasy in real life... and we are now a part of your fantasy. What I mean is that you're throwing around a lot of terms, words, ideas etc, but the way you're writing about them tells me you don't even know what they mean... you also have the fantasy that all martial artists, or collection of them (such as this forum) will then have a complete knowledge of all arts, specifically in a specific area... and think that we'll also all agree on the arts, even if there is any collective knowledge to find (which, honestly, there isn't).

You're also under the very mistaken impression that there is such a thing as "real legit arts" that are universally agreed on... and that fit your fantasy about what these arts teach. The variety and breadth of what are classed as "martial arts" is huge... and all will claim to be "real legit arts"... but nothing on the planet will fit the impossible stereotype you're looking for.

This'll take a bit, but I'm going to break down your requests, to highlight how you've really asked nothing that we can help with... which will go back to pgsmith's advise to research more first... so hopefully this may show where your research should start. Although, at the end of the day, most of what you're asking for/about is rather beside the point... all you need is to do is find a school you like, regardless of it's age, or system, or anything else, and attend it. But we'll cover this first.



Onesword23 said:


> Hi, I'm new to these forums and I was wondering if anyone knows about a traditional martial arts school that's been around for a very long time with a very reputable and good instructor from the NY Long Island area. Someone who's humble and teaches real legit arts, from spirituality to good exercises, effective self defense, does hard training etc. Someone who's not a fake or looking to just make money or use you as a punching bag. I'm trying to avoid places that have too many kids in the classes and are all about quickly promoting you to higher belt ranks.
> 
> Thank you.



Okay, you're asking for a "traditional martial arts school". What is that to you? Is it a classical Japanese art, and therefore based dominantly in weapon use? A Chinese system? A more modern Korean art that has a more "militaristic" training approach, such as many TKD schools? What defines a "traditional martial art"? Is that different to a "traditional martial arts school"? Let me tell you, even on the forum, we can't agree on what constitutes a traditional school as distinct from a modern one....

A school that's "been around for a very long time"? How long is that? The average martial art school folds in less than 6 months... Is 5 years "a long time"? 10 years? 50?

"With a very reputable and good instructor"? According to who? In what field? A very reputable and good instructor in BJJ is useless if you're looking for Iaido... so you're putting the cart before the domestication of the horse here... 

"Someone who's humble". Okay, that's movies talking.

"And teaches real legit arts", which can mean a huge variety of things... and can be questionable, depending on who you listen to...

"From spirituality" (mostly lip service in many schools, I gotta be honest... to find any school that actually has any emphasis on it is very rare) 
"to good exercises" (for what? Good exercises for boxing will be different to those for Kyudo, which will be different to those for karate, different to those for Judo, different to those for Taiji etc... and really, if the need is fitness, gyms are rather prevalent these days...) 
"effective self defence" (ooh, another can of worms.... but importantly, how would you assess that? What experience do you have to what is and is not effective self defence?), 
"does hard training etc" (yeah, that's another fantasy... you're not even aware of what training involves by itself, let alone "hard training"...). 

"Someone who's not a fake" (and what criteria do you use to check that?) "or looking to just make money" (financial success is a bad thing now?) 
"or use you as a punching bag" (there will be some discomfort, but if you don't like it in whatever school you find... leave. Easy.) 
"I'm trying to avoid places that have too many kids in the classes" (okay, then do the adult classes), "and are about quickly promoting you to higher belt ranks" (are those the same things?).



Onesword23 said:


> I'm looking for any style involved with kung fu, karate, jiu-jitsu, aikido that may offer grappling, striking, external and internal fitness, self defense (competition as optional but not the main goal) from an authentic teacher that can be trusted and not from some scam artist. I prefer Long Island rather than the boroughs due to my job scheduling and distance. the city can also get quite expensive too.



Yeah, you're pulling words in you don't understand.... 

Kung Fu is a generic term for the "rewards of hard work", and is a catch-all term often applied to Chinese martial arts, traditional, modern, unarmed, armed, and more. It can literally apply to any Chinese art at all.

Karate is a grouping of arts based in Chinese methods and developed dominantly in the Ryukyu islands south of Japan, as well as including a number of even more modern Japanese-developed arts based in the Okinawan (Ryukyu) methods. These arts are largely unarmed, although there is some weapon work associated through Ryukyu Kobudo or weapons taught as part of the karate system itself. Largely split into Okinawan and Japanese arts, there are obviously a lot of similarities, as well as some distinct differences that are not worth getting into here. Karate is known for it's emphasis on striking and kicking methods, with the exact breakup and training emphasis depending on the system itself.

Jiu-jitsu is an old transliteration of the Japanese 柔術 (most commonly rendered today as "Jujutsu"). This spelling is mostly used by BJJ practitioners and arts (Brazilian jiu-jitsu), a modern ground-fighting based system originating in early Judo. No weapons, minimal striking and stand up work, but very sophisticated ground work, and a healthy competitive approach.

Aikido is a modern Japanese jujutsu system based in Daito Ryu Aikijutsu, with an emphasis on avoiding directly meeting an opponents force, and using the opponents momentum to extend their balance, leading to takedowns and joint locks. Some basic weapon use is included, but little ground work.

NONE of these systems offer the entirety of grappling, striking, external fitness, internal fitness (whatever that is), self defence, and so on all in the one package... for example, karate has minimal grappling, basically all stand up (not ground fighting as a rule), a lot of striking, a certain degree of physical (external) fitness, maybe some "internal" (particularly some of the Goju kata from Okinawan systems).... BJJ will give you a lot of grappling options, a lot of physical fitness, little to no emphasis on anything "internal", almost no striking, and so on... Aikido is standup grappling, almost no striking, less emphasis on fitness, and so on... 

You're also rather obsessed with the idea of the teacher being "authentic", and "not a scam artist"... look, to be fair, you can get a perfectly authentic teacher, and they can be borderline useless... while I'm not saying you should then entertain the idea of a scam artist, honestly, if the rest is catered for (a proper, legit art), then you greatly reduce the risk for that from the get-go. I wouldn't worry about it too much.



Onesword23 said:


> Thank you for the advise, sorry if that's how it sounded. That's not my intentions. I've been doing some more research of places that might suit my style of choice and if any of you know or have information on whether these places are reputable legit and any information on the instructors of which ones are truly the most caring, understanding and a great teacher, please let me know.



You have to remember, this is a worldwide website... I have no idea who "sensei Anthony" or "sifu Mark" are... but a little google, and we can find something...



Onesword23 said:


> American Black Belt Academy, by Tom Lavarco (American Kenpo Karate, Brazilian Jiu Jitsu & Kickboxing Classes | Long Island | AmericanBlackBelt.com)



A modern, full time facility, teaching modern art such as Ed Parker's Kempo Karate (a modern US form of the art... opinions differ...), MMA, BJJ (for kids), and a lot of fitness programs. Looks okay, but not traditional, nothing to do with internal aspects, philosophy, or much else. Might be a belt factory for the kids, might be good. Certainly a fairly slick set up, and fairly professional.



Onesword23 said:


> Ling Nam Sui Lam Kung Fu Academy, by sifu Mark (Ling Nam Siu Lum - Kung Fu Academy | 2570 Hempstead Turnpike, Suite #2, East Meadow, NY, 11554)



Chinese arts, teaching two rather interesting systems to find under one roof... Hung Gar and Wing Chun. The two are almost exactly opposite, really, with Hung Gar favouring deep stances, and wide actions, and Wing Chun liking short movements and direct lines... interesting. Lineage seems okay... the mention of William Cheung might get the WC guys up in arms, though... 



Onesword23 said:


> Martial Art Institute, by sensei Anthony (Karate For Kids, Teens & Adults | The Martial Arts Institute)



Er... a lot of things taught, but the instructor doesn't really show any history of training in anything other than sports karate... and claims like "Often called the Harvard of Martial Arts" just makes me laugh and cringe....



Onesword23 said:


> Long Island Asian studies, by Tom Collings (Long Island Asian Studies Martial arts training on Long Island)



So, basically an Aikido school and Taiji school with a real lack of grasp of history... a lot of issues with the site, but the instruction might be okay.



Onesword23 said:


> Goshinkan Dojo, by sensei Jeff Lovering (Goshinkan Jujitsu Dojo Family Self Defense Center)



Er... okay.... the only legit rank I can find for Jeff Lovering, 9th Dan, is a 3rd Kyu in Daito Ryu... that's... not good. A lot of modern, Western creations, trying to imitate Japanese arts, societies awarding rank they have no real authority to, and a minimalist actual legit ranking... not something that looks overly good to my eyes... but again, the instruction might be fine. Only way to tell for these schools is to go to them.



Onesword23 said:


> Thank you



No problem.

One more to go... 



Onesword23 said:


> Hmm ..I will definitely check her dojo out, thanks. Do you know if she's patient? Has been teaching for a while and covers all the concepts and aspects of fighting from standing to ground and does internal training? There' lots of places by me that I went to try and didn't like cause they were too focused on being like mcdojos. Also, you are right. It really depends what is the best fit for me and it all comes down to travel distance, money, timing, good training and an instructor that can work with me. Like you said it can get quite expensive by my area but I'll try to do the best I can in finding the proper school and teacher and hopefully not so far away. At least for right now, I'm more focused on places locally that have been around for a long time teaching.



Why is "patient" important?
What makes you think any particular system would cover: 
"all the concepts" (whatever you think that might entail) 
"and aspects of fighting" (nothing does... all systems are contextually dependent) 
"from standing to ground fighting" (there are two types of unarmed arts, specialist systems and generalist... a generalist system might touch on all of this, but not in the depth of a specialist system... which will only really focus on one or two aspects...)
"and does internal training?" (what do you think internal training is?)

I would also ask what you know a "McDojo" to be... 

Look, I know this was rather harsh, and I hope you take it in the spirit in which it is intended... to get you to think a bit more about what you're after... and to allow you to realise that there is no single system that does everything, or is the single "best"... traditional (classical) arts won't be particularly suited to modern self defence, for example... a grappling heavy school won't do much in the way of striking... "internal" elements are a rarity, and often not what you think they are....

I wish you the best in your search, but you need to significantly reign in your expectations to begin with.


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## Onesword23 (Jan 5, 2018)

jks9199 said:


> You have an interesting set of criteria. I'm wondering why you're stressing patient so much, because it's not something people often look for in a martial arts instructor. Perhaps if he told us more about why you want these specific criteria, someone might be able to help you more. You also listed several schools, and as of the others have told you, visit them. That's the only way, in my perspective -- but you might feel it is completely the opposite when you visit.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk



When I say "patient" meaning that the instructor doesn't send the students out the door, and one who doesn't like being asked questions. Someone who is open to listen to any answers I have and is not going to rule out any chance to help and correct you if you make a mistake rather than get the feeling you're just there to come and go like you're on an assembly line. But you are right, only way to know is to visit them.



JR 137 said:


> Seido doesn’t have any ground fighting that I’ve seen.  Going by her rank/title (6th dan) she’s been in Seido for at least 30 years, probably closer to 40.  She’s probably been teaching for about 3/4 of that time.  As far as patience, everyone’s idea of that is different.
> 
> Seido has an element of meditation to it.  We have a monthly meditation class at our dojo, as do the other dojos that I know of.  It’s not a requirement for promotion, but I’d be very surprised if she does hold that class too.  If that’s what you mean by “internal.”
> 
> ...



I guess that is fine, my guess is that having a little ground work helps a long way in self defense along with striking cause any situation could accrue but if they are a great school with a great teacher and students then that's what matters most. Just because a style is good for me doesn't mean the instructor or students will be cause sometimes I'm better off at a school that has the right atmosphere.


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## Headhunter (Jan 5, 2018)

First name I think of hearing Long Island is matt serra bjj and Mma. I've met matt and he's a real nice guy and he's former ufc welterweight champ and the first American to get a black belt under Renzo Gracie


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## Onesword23 (Jan 5, 2018)

Chris Parker said:


> Hmm... first off, welcome aboard. I genuinely mean that... which I'm emphasising as this will be a little blunt.
> 
> You have no idea what you're even looking for.
> 
> ...



I appreciate everything you are telling me. Do not worry about sounding a little harsh as I do not mind that at all and this is a big learning experience for me. The more I learn the better I will understand. You are correct in that no place can offer a flawless structure as this is not fantasy land and everyone will have their opinion about which is better but if I can get the most out of a place that is very well rounded in a sense that it's known for a good reputation where lots of people would recommend to go. It usually helps in the long run, then it's up to me to decide if I like it based on my own experience trig it out.

One thing I'd like to say is aren't most martial arts a hybrid of grappling/striking, etc.? Wasn't martial arts invented as a combative way to fighting in wars while also having the internal/breathing elements that sort of balance out the toughness? Correct me if I'm wrong. I would think that any martial art could focus on different aspects to train you for the real world like karate having punches, strikes but I'd assume they would also learn throws/grabs or how to get away and escape from being taken to the ground no? Same with kung fu I'd assume but I wouldn't know cause every style and teacher is probably different. This is why I ask. 

I say patent in a sense that I don't want an instructor that doesn't take the time to teach and just has you in the back line and when it's over you just go home, I may be a slow learner and like to ask a few questions cause at the end of the day it is my money and just to think you're leaning an art and to feel rushed, especially if they try to get you to the next belt as quickly as they can, which is more money I'm not learning. I understand that an instructor can be authentic, long lineage, knows some deadly stuff, etc, but if they have the wrong attitude and aren't helpful it's the wrong place for me too. 

Thanks for getting information on those schools I listed, I will check them out more myself. I think the ones that interest me most right now is that kung fu school and the Taiji school, not really feeling the tempo place at the moment, as for that Japanese arts school with western creations seems pretty skeptical to me as well, after looking it up on the site but only time will tell if I decide to try all the schools out just to get abetter idea. 

Thank you so much, anything else you want to inform me, please do. This was very helpful.


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## Onesword23 (Jan 5, 2018)

Headhunter said:


> First name I think of hearing Long Island is matt serra bjj and Mma. I've met matt and he's a real nice guy and he's former ufc welterweight champ and the first American to get a black belt under Renzo Gracie



I heard good things about his place, a cool guy and he's had some great fights from what I was told. I'm more looking into a traditional type school but I can always take his school into consideration. Thank you.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Jan 5, 2018)

Onesword23 said:


> I heard good things about his place, a cool guy and he's had some great fights from what I was told. I'm more looking into a traditional type school but I can always take his school into consideration. Thank you.


Definitely a good school, you would learn quality BJJ there, but it's (BJJ) not necessarily for everyone.


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## Tony Dismukes (Jan 5, 2018)

Onesword23 said:


> One thing I'd like to say is aren't most martial arts a hybrid of grappling/striking, etc.? Wasn't martial arts invented as a combative way to fighting in wars while also having the internal/breathing elements that sort of balance out the toughness? Correct me if I'm wrong.


Not really.

I'll follow up on Chris's post to point out that you've clearly tried to prepare by reading up on martial arts in general. Unfortunately, much of what is written on the subject is pseudo-historical myth and/or unreliable, overgeneralized marketing spin.

Let's break down a few aspects of what you've asked about ...

The overwhelming majority of existing martial arts (despite the etymology of the term) are not derived from military wartime usage. Most of them are civilian arts. Even most of those which have a military connection were never more than secondary aspects of training for soldiers.

Martial arts can range from 100% striking to 100% grappling or anywhere in-between. They can focus entirely on unarmed applications or entirely on weapons usage or some mixture of both. They can be highly specialized or more generalist. They can focus on combative application (in various contexts), sportive competition, long-term health, development of character, development of physical attributes, preservation of historical tradition, artistic performance, building a community, transmission of a culture, or any combination of those aspects. In addition, opinions may be sharply divided on the proper way to approach any of those options.

The "internal" vs "external" terminology is generally used in describing Chinese martial arts and the supposed dichotomy between the two goes back to some philosophical/political arguments in China around a century ago. Many of us from other systems see it as not much more than marketing.

"Traditional" is another word used so inconsistently as to be almost meaningless. (As witnessed by the fact that some arts commonly described as "traditional" (like Tae Kwon Do) are actually younger than some other arts commonly described as "non-traditional" (like BJJ).) It's commonly used as a marketing term to imply that students are receiving instruction in the same way that students have in previous generations going back centuries. This is almost always not really the case. (The closest you could get to that ideal would be the Japanese koryu arts, which are not that easily found and not what most people really want to experience.) What you typically get in schools which claim the "traditional" mantle are arts taught with various cultural trappings (language, ritual, etiquette, outfits, etc) from the countries that the art or its predecessors originated in. Sometimes these cultural trappings may be accurate to their origins and sometimes they have mutated significantly over the years and sometimes they are just based on uninformed fantasy.

"McDojo" is a derogatory term which is so poorly defined that it often means nothing more than "a commercial school that I don't think is very good." To the extent that it could be a meaningful term, I'd say it refers to a business model for a martial arts school which is focused on maximizing revenue through standardized practices such as belt promotion fees every few months, extra fees for special programs like "black belt clubs", fees for special classes on subjects which may be outside the instructor's actual expertise, and so on. You might actually get good instruction at a "McDojo", but it's a secondary priority to profit for the owner.  Really though, there are plenty of schools which fit that description but still have students who are happy with what they are getting.

"Spirituality" is not something I would expect to be a significant part of the curriculum at most schools. Some places will give lip service to such a thing, but it won't amount to much more than a few minutes of meditation or memorization of an official creed. An instructor who spends much time promoting himself as some sort of enlightened spiritual guide is quite likely a wannabe cult leader. Depending on how you define "spiritual" it may be possible to gain benefits in that department, but those benefits come from the actual physical training and the mindset you bring to it.

All that said, I'll second the advice given by others. Forget your ideas about what you think a martial art is supposed to be. Decide what you personally want to get out of martial arts training (physical fitness, the ability to handle yourself in a fight, a fun hobby, whatever). Make a list of the schools in your area. Cross off all the schools which won't work for you in terms of cost, schedule, or location. Maybe post links to the website of any schools that you would like us to vet for any obvious red flags. Go to visit each of the remaining schools, watch a class, get a feel for the atmosphere and the teaching style. Many schools will offer a free sample lesson, try those out. Decide which school you might enjoy enough to actually show up and train consistently. (It doesn't matter if you find the best instructor in the world - if you don't enjoy the training you won't show up and you won't get good.) Sign up there and give it a try.


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## Anarax (Jan 5, 2018)

Onesword23 said:


> I will do that, the places I listed are ones that I found that were in driving distance but I don't know much about those schools and not sure of anyone that does.



I have no personal experience with the schools you listed. However; judging by the websites, the Goshinkan and the Ling Nam Siu Lum seem the match your criteria the best.


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## Onesword23 (Jan 6, 2018)

Tony Dismukes said:


> Not really.
> 
> I'll follow up on Chris's post to point out that you've clearly tried to prepare by reading up on martial arts in general. Unfortunately, much of what is written on the subject is pseudo-historical myth and/or unreliable, overgeneralized marketing spin.
> 
> ...



I understand what you are saying. I assumed that the "internal" vs "external" thing was based in all traditional styles of martial arts since I've seen Japanese and Korean styles in videos doing something similar I supposed? I guess I never looked at it that way about the term "traditional" and how it can be misinterpreted. I can see how that could be used as marketing like anything else and a way to sometimes make you feel like you're learning something from the ancient scrolls and romanticize the history of the art, then why do students still sign up and feel it will benefit them for real life fighting? I'm not saying all Mcdojos are bad, they can be good too, I guess it depends on the instructor, environment , the training I would get out of it, even if it gets pricey, if it's a good teacher but I guess it's the same could be said if a teacher says they are nothing like Mcdojos who teaches who promotes his ancient authentic arts that can destroy anyone, could be a bad teacher as well. The spiritual thing sounds confusing but if that's can be used as another promo point than I should be cautious of as well. 

If I find the right teacher and style that suits me I will go along with that, that's if I do. Thanks for being honest with me.


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