# Interested in learning Reiki, where to start.



## Bob Hubbard (Jan 10, 2008)

So I spent 3 hours at the bookstore tonight and left confused. 

I'm interested in learning more about Reiki, and did find the wikipedia entry which gave me a decent start, but, I admit to being overwhelmed and in need of experienced guidance.

So, while I research this more, is there a good book or 2 that's recommended as a starting point?  Other advice?

Thanks!


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## morph4me (Jan 10, 2008)

I spent a Saturday at the local community college and took a class. You can check out the local communty college or adult ed in your community and see if they offer something


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## MarkBarlow (Jan 10, 2008)

If there is a metaphysical store in your area, they should have info on local instructors.  Also check with massage therapists or yoga schools.

Whether you believe in chakras or not, the concept of improving your well-being through touch (laying on of the hands) and positive concentration is a common theme in religions and older  health care systems worldwide.


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## shesulsa (Jan 10, 2008)

I highly recommend anything by Diane Ruth Shoemaker - "All Love" in particular. "All Love" is a great book for the beginner and is quite comprehensive. Available at B&N; ISBN 0-9674135-1-6 for a little under $20.

It is said that Reiki must be given to you - shared from one entity to another - and that is part of the power of Reiki - that when one person in the chain performs Reiki they also pull the cumulative energies channeled by other people.  Some claim that Sekhem-Seichim-Reiki is the healing power that the Christ used, though I think it was a combination of things and more dealing with love and light than symbology.

I think to fully comprehend and utilize the power of Reiki, you must accept the power is not yours, the power is that from the Divine Force, the All That Is, the Holy Spirit, or whatever you wish to call the interconnectedness of all things that pulsates within everyone, is pure love, light and empowerment.  The acceptance that this power is stronger than anything else - that it does and will vanquish evil, darkness, dis-ease, etcetera is key to becoming good with any energy healing whatsoever.

For level one, you must be attuned by a master.  Now ... I think I differ from most other practitioners when I say that I think you can become attuned by a master in spirit form if that is your path.  I've met some people who never submitted to attunement from another living person but have "developed" these gifts.  If one is open and ready and it is their path to do this, I don't think it inconceivable that a person could obtain attunement from a spiritual source.  But *is* my opinion having spent hours upon hours in discussion with persons who felt they were a healing channel, people who called themselves healers but were vampirific instead, and people who have made my jaw drop.

The investment in the book to start can't hurt.  I think I've posted a couple of links on Reiki here.  I'll spend time getting a sticky together of some good sights.

All love,
G


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## Bob Hubbard (Jan 10, 2008)

Here's the "money" question, How do you know it's working?  I've seen a few people and well, to be honest I got a good massage but couldn't say i felt anything else. Now, it's possible that's all that was there but....


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## Carol (Jan 10, 2008)

Bob Hubbard said:


> Here's the "money" question, How do you know it's working?  I've seen a few people and well, to be honest I got a good massage but couldn't say i felt anything else. Now, it's possible that's all that was there but....



If you got a "good massage" then it wasn't Reiki.  It may have been someone using the Reiki name to sell you a massage, but it wasn't Reiki. There is no tissue manipulation, only touch.


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## shesulsa (Jan 10, 2008)

Reiki doesn't even have to involve touch - in fact, Reiki in an of itself *is not* a touch-art. That's a different kind of healing - a more rudimentary one.  Whatever they're doing to you, it's not Reiki.

However - Reiki is one of those low-feedback kind of things - you don't always feel it immediately.  Vibration energy is one form of no-touch healing you can sense; your hair stands up on end, you feel a little light-headed and perhaps a little queasy, kind of a pins-and-needles feeling, perhaps a temperature change, you may sweat or drool.  Pain changes or subsides.

Reiki is ... different. You might feel it or you might not but usually you won't.  And it depends on the ability level of the practitioner.

Now ... it can be done while a person is giving you a massage ... but don't let anyone sell you a "Reiki massage" because they don't really exist in a massage form unless it's a "newer" system and those modern Reiki systems are notorious for either not working, working only a little and for wearing off rapidly.


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## Xue Sheng (Jan 10, 2008)

Bob Hubbard said:


> Here's the "money" question, How do you know it's working? I've seen a few people and well, to be honest I got a good massage but couldn't say i felt anything else. Now, it's possible that's all that was there but....


 
How do you know a visit to your doctor works or how the medication he/she prescribed worked?



Carol Kaur said:


> If you got a "good massage" then it wasn't Reiki. It may have been someone using the Reiki name to sell you a massage, but it wasn't Reiki. There is no tissue manipulation, only touch.


 
I am assuming Reiki is similar to Chinese Tui Na then (aka acupressure) is that a correct assumption?


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## shesulsa (Jan 10, 2008)

Xue Sheng said:


> I am assuming Reiki is similar to Chinese Tui Na then (aka acupressure) is that a correct assumption?


No.


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## shesulsa (Jan 10, 2008)

Okay, I should say there *are* hand positions for hands-on healing, but the core of Reiki is done without the need for touch.  Touch enables energy flow in the body. The Body is a crude mass compared to all around us; low in vibration, dense but not impenetrable nor immune to energy flows and blockages.

Here are two huge sites on Reiki:

www.reiki.org

www.holisticonline.com

I'm pressed for time today - let's see if I can find info on sekhem-seikim and SKHM reiki


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## Xue Sheng (Jan 10, 2008)

shesulsa said:


> No.


 
ok



shesulsa said:


> Okay, I should say there *are* hand positions for hands-on healing, but the core of Reiki is done without the need for touch. Touch enables energy flow in the body. The Body is a crude mass compared to all around us; low in vibration, dense but not impenetrable nor immune to energy flows and blockages.
> 
> Here are two huge sites on Reiki:
> 
> ...


 
Thanks I will check the links


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## shesulsa (Jan 10, 2008)

sorry - had to take cover for a tornado watch. Will continue here tomorrow.


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## Touch Of Death (Jan 10, 2008)

"Oh Reiki yer so fine, your so fine you blow my mind. Hey Reiki!"


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## kaizasosei (Jan 10, 2008)

everything here is just my opinion.  as with many spiritual topics, opinions will vary drasticaly.

i have a copy of called 'the big book of reiki symbols'  by mark hosak and walter lübeck-dont know if there is an english translation- i would think so..

it has most of the information. basicaly the study of reiki flows into study of a few different spiritual traditions such as tantric buddhism, taoism -some would say even christianity.

there is belief in some energy that radiates from the various chakras and can be concentrated in the hands. 
some will try to achieve these forms of spiritual power merely by seeking out a higher level reiki practitioner and have them lay their hands on them in one or several sessions.  
others, will concentrate on the study of buddhism, the vedic roots, sanskrit .  also not just for study but then to do special exercises to put the teachings to use or test.  
there is also the path of chanting to the many deities of buddhism etc.  
i believe all these ways will work to a certain degree. the final way to concentrate is that ones own body and self are the containers of the yin and yang.  so through body exercises like taikyoku, doin, martial arts,  or any activity for that matter, we can shape our tanden to be a certain way.  in the case of reiki ,to achieve amplification of the spiritual energy so that powerful healing and purification is more possible.


j


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## morph4me (Jan 10, 2008)

Touch Of Death said:


> "Oh Reiki yer so fine, your so fine you blow my mind. Hey Reiki!"


 
:lfao::lfao:


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## morph4me (Jan 10, 2008)

When I was in the class and on the table I felt warmth in the area that was being treated. There was no contact, but I could feel something similar to, but not nearly as strong as, the feeling I had when I was having an MRI done.


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## Xue Sheng (Jan 10, 2008)

shesulsa said:


> sorry - had to take cover for a tornado watch. Will continue here tomorrow.


 
Be safe


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## Cruentus (Jan 10, 2008)

Bob Hubbard said:


> So I spent 3 hours at the bookstore tonight and left confused.
> 
> I'm interested in learning more about Reiki, and did find the wikipedia entry which gave me a decent start, but, I admit to being overwhelmed and in need of experienced guidance.
> 
> ...



My advice is to do something else.

Based on my experiences, Reiki is up there with palm reading and Phrenology. There is no verifiable evidence what-so-ever that Reiki does anything that people claim it does, that I have seen.

If someone has something to bring to the table, then cool, I'll listen; but based on what I've seen thusfar... ah, no-go..


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## Cruentus (Jan 10, 2008)

Bob Hubbard said:


> Here's the "money" question, How do you know it's working? I've seen a few people and well, to be honest I got a good massage but couldn't say i felt anything else. Now, it's possible that's all that was there but....



You friggin' don't; and that's the reason why it seems ridiculus.

Now, that said, laying of the hands in prayer or meditation or positive thoughts is cool. I have no problems with that, and I think that can be a positive thing.

But laying of the hands in prayer or meditation does not have to lend a claim to results. It is just something you do in hopes and faith that it will heal. Of course there are those televangelist types who will make outlandish claims with faith healing, but I don't think those people are being truthful either.

But with Reiki, you go beyond the concept of laying hands and praying or meditating. Now you get into "levels" and people arguing over who is a true master and who isn't, and what is the real Reiki and what isn't, and esoteric-speak, and on and on. Plus, many "masters" charge $$, and the people paying have an expectation for some sort of result.

BUT THERE IS NO VERIFIABLE WAY TO TELL YOU ARE GETTING RESULTS IN THE FIRST PLACE to justify "levels" and "masters" and who is doing the real reiki and who isn't.

It's kind of like a lot of martial arts circles (not all, but some).

So, as far as I am concerned, it's bunk. But again, I could be wrong; so I'll shut up and let the true believers say their piece...


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## kaizasosei (Jan 10, 2008)

> But with Reiki, you go beyond the concept of laying hands and praying or meditating. Now you get into "levels" and people arguing over who is a true master and who isn't, and what is the real Reiki and what isn't, and esoteric-speak, and on and on. Plus, many "masters" charge $$, and the people paying have an expectation for some sort of result.
> 
> BUT THERE IS NO VERIFIABLE WAY TO TELL YOU ARE GETTING RESULTS IN THE FIRST PLACE to justify "levels" and "masters" and who is doing the real reiki and who isn't.
> 
> It's kind of like a lot of martial arts circles (not all, but some).




no kidding.  that stuff really puts me off reiki sometimes.  
however, i try not to let it stop me from understanding the philosophy, theories as well as practicing the religion independant of reiki.  
the way people hord reiki info sometimes really freakes me out. it's so sensationalist and in my opinion not really truthful or spiritual at all.  
 but whatever, who am i to blow against the wind.
plus, the study of reiki for most people barely even scratches the outer flakey part of the surface.  it's not just the language and culture barrier. it's a clash between those within the system that are not in harmony with one another. therefore the idea of levels etc. 
i've never really thought about this nor am i a typical reiki practitioner although i try my best to learn all the information.  i have memorized far more buddhist spells and texts than is contained within all reiki books that i have seen. and is essentialy the same teaching as in reiki yet i did not learn it through reiki.  so there are many ways to reach the peak of the mountain...

religion and spirituality is also a difficult subject because of the power issue. it's the similar with any type of largely unfounded claims. 
still, i believe in some sort of force possibly having to do with the positivity taught in reiki. also i have come to believe in actual powers that can effect healings and the like-like i mentioned above
 if anyone makes large claims about reiki achievements, i sometimes ask them why they just don't go to a hospital and help people.
it seems to me, people will rationalize just about anything for their own profit and glorification.  it's bizzare.



j


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## Empty Hands (Jan 10, 2008)

"This study concludes that Reiki is a time consuming process with no significant clinical benefit."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/...ez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

"Women undergoing stereotactic core breast biopsy received no significant benefit from therapeutic touch administered during the procedure. Therapeutic touch cannot be routinely recommended for patients in this setting."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/...ez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

"There is paucity of multi-institutional RCTs evaluating CAM interventions for cancer pain with adequate power, duration, and sham control. Hypnosis, imagery, support groups, acupuncture, and healing touch seem promising, particularly in the short term, but none can be recommended because of a paucity of rigorous trials."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/...ez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

"Neither masked prayer nor MIT therapy significantly improved clinical outcome after elective catheterisation or percutaneous coronary intervention."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/...ez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

"The manipulation of life energy, auras, chi, or prana are purported to be the basis of healing touch therapies, but the most delicate of scientific instruments have been universally unable to record such phenomena. Only those with a metaphysical belief in the process seem to be able to "feel" such energy. An elegantly simple study by a 9-year-old girl, published in JAMA in April of 1998, showed that even that claim may be untrue."
http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1547-5069.2004.04052_2.x?cookieSet=1

"Over 30 studies have been conducted with healing touch as the independent variable. Although no generalizable results were found, a foundation exists for further research to test its benefits."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/...ez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

"Blinded practitioners (sham or reiki) were unable to determine which category they were in. Sham Reiki practitioners reported greater frequency of feeling heat in the hands compared to Reiki practitioners. There was no reported difference between the sham and the real Reiki practitioners in their ability to feel energy flowing through their hands...Reiki did not have any clinically useful effect on stroke recovery in subacute hospitalized patients receiving standard-of-care rehabilitation therapy."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/...ez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum


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## East Winds (Jan 11, 2008)

How long has it taken those of you who are Taiji practitioners to learn to work with Chi energy? Yet a Reiki practitioner can learn to do it over a weekend????:erg: . I would like a Reiki practitioner to tell me how they determine the direction of Chi flow in the body, bearing in mind that Chi can flow in one of two directions. 

Very best wishes


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## Brian R. VanCise (Jan 11, 2008)

The only thing I will say about Reiki is that you can be a *master* over a weekend course.  That in and of itself tells me alot.


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## Xue Sheng (Jan 11, 2008)

East Winds said:


> How long has it taken those of you who are Taiji practitioners to learn to work with Chi energy? Yet a Reiki practitioner can learn to do it over a weekend????:erg: . I would like a Reiki practitioner to tell me how they determine the direction of Chi flow in the body, bearing in mind that Chi can flow in one of two directions.
> 
> Very best wishes


 


Brian R. VanCise said:


> The only thing I will say about Reiki is that you can be a *master* over a weekend course. That in and of itself tells me alot.


 
That says a lot actually, I did not know that.


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## kaizasosei (Jan 11, 2008)

i heard about this one time when there was this thing going on called 'the bible code'. later on, on  some israeli  tvshow  the idea was proposed that if you look into any book with enough zeal to find what you are looking for, you can find it.

j


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## shesulsa (Jan 11, 2008)

East Winds said:


> How long has it taken those of you who are Taiji practitioners to learn to work with Chi energy? Yet a Reiki practitioner can learn to do it over a weekend????:erg: . I would like a Reiki practitioner to tell me how they determine the direction of Chi flow in the body, bearing in mind that Chi can flow in one of two directions.
> 
> Very best wishes


First, I want to say I would never charge anyone for the passing on of Reiki.  The amounts people charge for this are just outrageous. I fail to see how anyone can do that and call themselves "masters" or "healers" and sleep well at night.  The excuse is given that it weeds out people who are not committed - what a crock.

Second, it is an art. One can receive a list on paper of hand positions (I don't usually use these), symbols, etcetera and learn the theory in a weekend - but one cannot become a master in a weekend. What is offered is the certification that a person has the material in hand and has been "attuned" to master level. I know what is claimed by many of those charging exhorbitant prices for these knowledge is you become a reiki master in a weekend and can start helping people right away.  They should be ashamed of themselves, IMNSHO.

Third, chi flow is not often part of the reiki system. Perhaps if people understood chi flow more it may help in some ways but it's not a part of Reiki.  I also think chi is misunderstood as being more dense than it really is - perhaps we have differing view of what chi actually is (we being everyone at large).


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## kaizasosei (Jan 11, 2008)

yeah, i don't agree with charging people.  i mean not overly against it, but the system seems way outa line from my point of view.  generaly, the scene often really lacks maturity and  seem  not to be taking the ideas and guidelines to their fullest. ultimately through the fronting and the bogus excuses it is a sign that the entire action is a manifestation of some kind of shame.

the energy of the major energy circulation and minor energy circulation  i have been taught the enery rises up the spine over the top of the head, then flown down the front of the body where it flows into the lower regions to circulate back up. i think it it more complicated than that and i can remember many diagrams but im not sure now.


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## Xue Sheng (Jan 11, 2008)

shesulsa said:


> First, I want to say I would never charge anyone for the passing on of Reiki. The amounts people charge for this are just outrageous. I fail to see how anyone can do that and call themselves "masters" or "healers" and sleep well at night. The excuse is given that it weeds out people who are not committed - what a crock.
> 
> Second, it is an art. One can receive a list on paper of hand positions (I don't usually use these), symbols, etcetera and learn the theory in a weekend - but one cannot become a master in a weekend. What is offered is the certification that a person has the material in hand and has been "attuned" to master level. I know what is claimed by many of those charging exhorbitant prices for these knowledge is you become a reiki master in a weekend and can start helping people right away. They should be ashamed of themselves, IMNSHO.
> 
> Third, chi flow is not often part of the reiki system. Perhaps if people understood chi flow more it may help in some ways but it's not a part of Reiki. I also think chi is misunderstood as being more dense than it really is - perhaps we have differing view of what chi actually is (we being everyone at large).


 
Qi aside, how long would you say it takes to become a reiki master?


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## shesulsa (Jan 11, 2008)

Xue Sheng said:


> Qi aside, how long would you say it takes to become a reiki master?


Well ... heh heh ... what do you define as "master?" It's another art - it requires time, devotion, practice, etc.  I suppose a few years ... but some people are just kinda meant to be energy channels and others are kinda just ... energy vampires who think they're doing someone else good.  Does that make any sense?


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## Bob Hubbard (Jan 11, 2008)

I've dealt with a few vampires.  brrrr.   It's good to see both pro and con information. Alot of what I read just seems ah, non-functional, but it's contradicted by a different source. I'm finding this happening alot as people with minimal real knowledge get books published. (Most of the Feng Shui books I find are written by New Age mix-n-matchers, for example).

I saw the "jump 3 levels to mastery in a week" stuff and it set off red flags, however I do  see as true much of the ideas I read in reiki, as well as qi etc.


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## kaizasosei (Jan 11, 2008)

everyone will have different standards-

i say, when you can regenerate an amputated limb then one can begin talk of physical healing by nonphysical menas before that, one should just keep it at positive energy and useful kinds of emotional support or spiritual support.  sorry if seems i set the bar to high.  but when i comes to spiritual things, i find it is a big responsibilty.
why settle for anything less than the best.  and if the best is not possible then settle for what is truly possible and strive to fullfill it by all means.   
however, the very subject of spirituality brings people to do curious things. there are so many different kinds of spiritual teachings. because reiki is not only a method, but it is also a kind of philosophy.  it incorperates much religious material-therefore it has a solid foothold in religious world.  which in a negative way is like saying it's stuck in a slab of concrete. 
many people check it out and then move on.  
not saying there aren't any valid practitioners of reiki.  i have a few friends who are learning the reiki curriculum.  however, most of the information can be obtained from books.  that is what this one friend and i have established.  much of the whole master diciple thing is bogus when money is one of the main reasons for practice.



j


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## shesulsa (Jan 11, 2008)

You know, seriously - Diane Shewmaker is highly respected in her ability.  Her book All Love is my go-to book on some stuff.  What I really recommend is you start talking to Reiki people about Reiki.  Ask about their lineage as you would a martial artist, ask them other esoteric questions about energy and life force consciousness.  

Bob, we can talk more in depth on the phone about it.  I've done energy work with a few people here on the site - if they want to contact you about it I'll leave that up to them.


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## shesulsa (Jan 11, 2008)

kaizasosei said:


> everyone will have different standards-
> 
> i say, when you can regenerate an amputated limb then one can begin talk of physical healing by nonphysical menas before that, one should just keep it at positive energy and useful kinds of emotional support or spiritual support.  sorry if seems i set the bar to high.  but when i comes to spiritual things, i find it is a big responsibilty.
> why settle for anything less than the best.  and if the best is not possible then settle for what is truly possible and strive to fullfill it by all means.
> ...


You have good content in your posts - could you please use standard capitalization and punctuation please? It would make your posts SO much easier to read. 

You did indeed set the bar high - we are not all gingerbread cookies. We are not all here to channel divine love at the same vibration for everyone.  I have seen some pretty amazing feats with healing energy - regenerating an arm??  May as well say Bruce Lee was a fraud then because he couldn't do the "Falling Buddha Palm From Heaven" move or the "Five Step Single Palm Exploding Heart" technique.  He couldn't kill a man with his kiai.

So ... if a Reiki person helps start an injury on the way to healing faster, that's not of use? If a Reiki person helps bring your blood pressure down, that's not of use? clear up a chronic sinus infection? diminish an emotional imbalance? clear an energy pathway? alert you to coming issues so you can prevent them yourself?

I may as well hang it up then - I don't know any Reiki person who can regenerate a severed limb.


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## Bob Hubbard (Jan 11, 2008)

I look at this in part in the same way western science looks at TCM. They hae the attitude "we can't explain it, we can't messure it, it must be bunk", yet there's thousands of years of proof.  Hell, we can't "see" a black hole, just it's effects but we believe in them....

Now, there's tons of snake oil out there and frauds who push it. "Wiggle your fingers like so and you too can be a Sithlord" stuff. So, it's important to weed out the well, weeds. lol


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## Xue Sheng (Jan 11, 2008)

shesulsa said:


> Diane Shewmaker


 
OK I was confused for a minute but a simple web search straightened me out. I could not for the life of me understand how you discovering comets and Reiki where related then I found it was not Diane Shewmaker but Carolyn Shoemaker I was thinking about.

Thanks for the info


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## shesulsa (Jan 11, 2008)

Xue Sheng said:


> OK I was confused for a minute but a simple web search straightened me out. I could not for the life of me understand how you discovering comets and Reiki where related then I found it was not Diane Shewmaker but Carolyn Shoemaker I was thinking about.
> 
> Thanks for the info


Huh?


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## kaizasosei (Jan 11, 2008)

As i understand it, Reiki doesn't imply any specific actions, rituals or techniques specific to individual tasks.  Therefore, i could say that maybe all people have access to this spiritual energy to some degree.  Either they are just shuting themselves out or they are not interested to train their skills further. 
So, it depends on the actions of the individual and what they want to achieve.  If they achieve their goals, then it is positive. 
There are all kinds of spiritual teachings, what is important is to be a helpful and well meaning person first.  All other training comes next.



j


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## shesulsa (Jan 11, 2008)

Xue Sheng said:


> OK I was confused for a minute but a simple web search straightened me out. I could not for the life of me understand how you discovering comets and Reiki where related then I found it was not Diane Shewmaker but Carolyn Shoemaker I was thinking about.
> 
> Thanks for the info





shesulsa said:


> Huh?


Ah - just figgered it out, though I googled Diane and found some, ah ... interesting stuff on her webpage.  Still the book I recommended by her is a great one.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Jan 11, 2008)

I have seen some pretty amazing stuff in my life so I am not so easy to debunk anything right off the bat.  Some stuff I have witnessed, was well *astronishing*.  

My only gripe with Reiki is anyone and I mean anyone who accepts alot of money and makes someone a master level or instructor over a weekend course. (how much depth and training can they really have)  That is my only complaint and the same goes for any martial art that does the same thing and there are alot of people doing it right now.


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## Xue Sheng (Jan 11, 2008)

shesulsa said:


> Huh?


 
It is just me being silly and confused as well as giving some very scary insight into how my brain works, I literally was thinking that Carolyn Shoemaker wrote a book on reiki

Ignore all that and just read the "thanks for the info" bits


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## shesulsa (Jan 11, 2008)

Brian R. VanCise said:


> I have seen some pretty amazing stuff in my life so I am not so easy to debunk anything right off the bat.  Some stuff I have witnessed, was well *astronishing*.


:asian:




> My only gripe with Reiki





> is anyone and I mean anyone who accepts alot of money and makes someone a master level or instructor over a weekend course. (how much depth and training can they really have)  That is my only complaint and the same goes for any martial art that does the same thing and there are alot of people doing it right now.


Yup - that's my main gripe too.  That and people who sell "Reiki massages." :soapbox:


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## Empty Hands (Jan 11, 2008)

Bob Hubbard said:


> I look at this in part in the same way western science looks at TCM. They hae the attitude "we can't explain it, we can't messure it, it must be bunk", yet there's thousands of years of proof.l



No, that just isn't true.  I published links to a number of scientific studies measuring the effects of reiki on various patient populations.  Science is studying this topic, and yes, mainly finding it to be bunk.  By the scientific method however, not by assumption.

As for the thousands of years of proof, did all of those old practicioners engage in double blinded examinations of large numbers of patients?  The placebo effect is a powerful one, and a particularly tricky one for methods like reiki.  A thousand years of anecdotes is not really that impressive when other explanations can be responsible for what is seen.



Bob Hubbard said:


> Hell, we can't "see" a black hole, just it's effects but we believe in them....



We have rigorous mathematical theories based on proven physics models to predict black holes, and rigorous empirical proof to show us that those black holes exist.  If we had the same thing for reiki, no one would doubt its effectiveness.


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## East Winds (Jan 11, 2008)

Shesulsa,

Thanks for your very reasoned and thoughtful input on this thread. However I'm afraid I'm with Empty Hands on this one. A couple of "Reiki Masters" I've spoken with, tell me they protect themselves from negative energy by using a special word? I'm very sorry but "special words" come into the 
field of "magic" as far as I'm concerned.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




However I always like to think I have an open mind and would certainly like to hear more input from you on this subject.

With very best wishes


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## shesulsa (Jan 11, 2008)

East Winds said:


> Shesulsa,
> 
> Thanks for your very reasoned and thoughtful input on this thread. However I'm afraid I'm with Empty Hands on this one. A couple of "Reiki Masters" I've spoken with, tell me they protect themselves from negative energy by using a special word? I'm very sorry but "special words" come into the
> field of "magic" as far as I'm concerned.


You owe me a new monitor and a new keyboard.  And a coke.  Better make it iced tea because coke burns like heck coming out my nose.  A "special word???" Okay, okay - two questions:

1. What were they smoking?
2. Where can I get some?

There are a LOT of charlatans in Reiki - AND - many people perceive healing as regeneration (severed arm, anyone?). There are people who perform Reiki who work in hospice to aid the death transition.  Death is permanent healing if you think about it! :lol2:

Many people who get their $20,000 weekend Master Level Reiki attunement and go try to 'heal' people (most practitioners have, I think, done this) are really just dumping their very own energy onto another person.  THAT'S NOT REIKI.  True Reiki is the power of the Holy Spirit and should be at least the equivalent if not stronger than the power of prayer.



> However I always like to think I have an open mind and would certainly like to hear more input from you on this subject.
> 
> With very best wishes



To be honset, I'm so scattered with my efforts I can only offer what I know.  I don't feel great about flying around scanning internet articles on this and "proving" anything.  I don't have high respect for scientific double-blind studies because they have been performed on drugs now taken off the market.  They have fallen in great favor of the placebo affect, however I don't see doctors prescribing placebos - I see them prescribing designer drugs you or your family will have to see a lawyer about later.  I have about as much respect for these as I do for the countless charlatans claiming to tell your future, cure your cancer with psychic surgery, knock you out with chi balls or sell you oceanfront property in Arizona.

It is not easy to find good, real Reiki practitioners and I wish ANYONE looking for one the luck of the world.

Peace.


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## JadecloudAlchemist (Jan 11, 2008)

Dear Empty Hands can you please define Reiki in the usage by these science studies? Also the studies you have mentioned what music type was used and for how long? How old were the age groups? In these studies mentioned I did not see any answers to these questions and I am sure similar studies have found opposing views. 

I think of Reiki as most Japanese think of Reiki. I think Bob if you are interest in learning this read about the history of the development if it did come from a Tendai priest look into what the Tendai sect used as far as healing rituals from there you will be more informed than by books that come out that mix Dolphins and Angels as advertised in my newspaper.


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## Empty Hands (Jan 11, 2008)

shesulsa said:


> I don't have high respect for scientific double-blind studies because they have been performed on drugs now taken off the market.



So because some studies have been proven wrong, they all must be?  By this logic, since some Reiki practicioners are by your own words charlatans, then all of Reiki is bunk.

Instead of scientific studies, what would you put in their place to tell us something objective about the world?  Tradition?  Anecdotes?  The sincere belief of Reiki practicioners that what they do is real?  Scientologists sincerely believe that what they practice is real too, that doesn't make it so.  

As for the effects you or any other practicioner claims to feel, that can be subjective.  Even a 9 year old girl in the referenced JAMA article was able to perform a simple experiment to show that touch healers were no better than random chance at detecting these fields they claim are so powerful and work so well.



shesulsa said:


> They have fallen in great favor of the placebo affect, however I don't see doctors prescribing placebos - I see them prescribing designer drugs you or your family will have to see a lawyer about later.



No drug is approved for use by the FDA unless it can be shown to have an effect greater than placebo.  While sometimes wrong or at least wrong about side effects, no alternative therapies including touch healing or herbs have to meet this standard.  All we have to go by is your word.

As for the placebo, it can have a great effect.  The initial characterization by Beecher showed that 35% of the control group saw relief of symptoms. If a sugar pill can relieve your pain by placebo, why not healing touch?



shesulsa said:


> I have about as much respect for these as I do for the countless charlatans claiming to tell your future, cure your cancer with psychic surgery, knock you out with chi balls or sell you oceanfront property in Arizona.



That is pretty telling, really.  A doctor prescribing a med is doing so with a real intention to help, using the best, if flawed, science available at the time.  Charlatans are just trying to cheat you.

In any case, what material difference is there between claims of Reiki and psychic surgery and Chi balls?  You seem to hold those ideas to a higher standard than you do Reiki, even though all three make some of the same basic claims.


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## Empty Hands (Jan 11, 2008)

JadecloudAlchemist said:


> Dear Empty Hands can you please define Reiki in the usage by these science studies? Also the studies you have mentioned what music type was used and for how long? How old were the age groups? In these studies mentioned I did not see any answers to these questions and I am sure similar studies have found opposing views.



The methodology varied by study, and is described in each article.  You can access the full article through medline and the link I have provided.  If you have trouble, let me know, and I'll see what I can do.

As for opposing studies, a few did find a positive effect.  However, they used such poor study design that I did not feel comfortable posting them.


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## Bob Hubbard (Jan 11, 2008)

I have little respct for the FDA.  After all, they fast tracked Nutrasweet and Splenda (which cause serious problems) and hmm n haw on natural products like Stevia and Ginseng. (discussions elsewhere here, so if anyone wants to discuss them, please kick up one of those topics.   )

Here's a side bar, sort of related.
There are a great deal of books out and an even greater number of websites that prescribe gem stones for everything from ghost busting to gall stone removal.  I've yet to find a single scientific study that says these are anything but pretty stones, with a few industrial uses. But, based on something I read, I stuck 9 clear quartz stones under my pillow, and have slept soundly since then (4 days). The article was very specific, must be 9, not 8 not 7, must do XY & Z before use, must redo XY & Z daily, etc.  I'm a skeptic of the 5th degree, can't explain it, yet...it worked.

So, while I do put value into scientific studies, I'm also aware that there are those things that science currently can't explain, that current medicine doesn't understand, that still exist and still work, despite our 'knowledge' that says otherwise.

Remember, according to science, and experiments, and the experts, a Bumblebee can't fly. 

That said, there is much value in looking at the tests and their results. 
When doing tests, all factors must be examined, including the test criteria. 

Simply put, despite the opposing views (and resulting ah, frustrations, I see here and there) so far, it's all been good information. Please, keep the info flowing and restrain the frustrations. I for one am learning alot and hope others find this of value too.


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## JadecloudAlchemist (Jan 11, 2008)

> The methodology varied by study, and is described in each article. You can access the full article through medline and the link I have provided. If you have trouble, let me know, and I'll see what I can do.
> 
> As for opposing studies, a few did find a positive effect. However, they used such poor study design that I did not feel comfortable posting them.


 I did try to access the full article something about paying for something the other article about the 9 year old girl I could not access due to cookie. I admit a 9 year coming to such a conclusion is pretty advance considering my nephew being 10 thinks of cartoons and soccer. I do think I got the gist of it my only problem with test involving Qi or Reiki is what modern science it trying to define the words as and performing studies on a false defination which of course would result in a false study.


I was discussing the meaning of Reiki in Japanese with my wife and its attention to health healing massage what have you and the meaning of the word Reiki deals with a feeling as if someone is watching you or in a more common idea the feeling of a ghost. If you use the word Reiki in Japan people will not think of some sort of healing massage but more about ghosts.  If any of those who practice Ninpo taijutsu ala Ninjutsu know about saying they practice Ninjutsu how average Japanese look at them.


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## Empty Hands (Jan 11, 2008)

Bob Hubbard said:


> I have little respct for the FDA.  After all, they fast tracked Nutrasweet and Splenda (which cause serious problems) and hmm n haw on natural products like Stevia and Ginseng. (discussions elsewhere here, so if anyone wants to discuss them, please kick up one of those topics.   )



No one says that the FDA or the drug system in general is perfect.  However, anyone wanting to sell a pharmaceutical in the US still has to meet a scientific evidentiary burden.  That is something important, no matter how flawed it can be.  It is also a burden that alternative therapies don't have to meet.



Bob Hubbard said:


> But, based on something I read, I stuck 9 clear quartz stones under my pillow, and have slept soundly since then (4 days).



Instruct a friend to swap the stones with "wrong" ones sometime without your knowledge, and keep track of the dates.  You keep track of how you're sleeping.  Do this over a few weeks or months.  If "good" sleep matches with "good" stones and "bad" sleep with "bad" stones then you might have something.  You also can't do it yourself - you will know, and the placebo effect kicks in.

If all that works, try it on 100 of your friends.  If "good" matches with "good" more than random chance would expect, then maybe there is something to this stone thing.

Without that, how can we really know what is causing your improved sleep?



Bob Hubbard said:


> So, while I do put value into scientific studies, I'm also aware that there are those things that science currently can't explain, that current medicine doesn't understand, that still exist and still work, despite our 'knowledge' that says otherwise.



It's in the mindset and approach more than anything.  A scientific outlook accepts gaps in knowledge, and tries to fill them with an evidence based explanation.  It may not be a perfect explanation, but it will get better with time - that is the scientific method.  A mystical outlook sees the gaps, and invents mystical explanations without evidence to fill them.  Maybe reiki is real, but it will take science to determine that for sure.



Bob Hubbard said:


> Remember, according to science, and experiments, and the experts, a Bumblebee can't fly.



That is a myth.
http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a5_045.html



Bob Hubbard said:


> I for one am learning alot and hope others find this of value too.



Sure, me too.  No one should think my mind is closed - I am happy to be presented with evidence that might change my mind.  I have looked for it myself though, and found what was available wanting.


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## Empty Hands (Jan 11, 2008)

JadecloudAlchemist said:


> I did try to access the full article something about paying for something the other article about the 9 year old girl I could not access due to cookie.



I'll see what I can do.



JadecloudAlchemist said:


> I admit a 9 year coming to such a conclusion is pretty advance considering my nephew being 10 thinks of cartoons and soccer.



That's why it got into JAMA!  None of my research these days would get into such a prestigious journal.  Maybe next year...


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## Live True (Jan 11, 2008)

Brian R. VanCise said:


> I have seen some pretty amazing stuff in my life so I am not so easy to debunk anything right off the bat. Some stuff I have witnessed, was well *astronishing*. My only gripe with Reiki is anyone and I mean anyone who accepts alot of money and makes someone a master level or instructor over a weekend course. (how much depth and training can they really have) That is my only complaint and the same goes for any martial art that does the same thing and there are alot of people doing it right now.


 
Like so many things that are outside of the considered norm, Reiki draws a whole lot of nutcases and folks who want to be heroes and saints.  I have a similar problem with practitioners who charges a whole lot of money for sessions, reiki massages, and the fast track/new age/bunk that helps folks believe that they can learn enlightenment in just 10 easy installments for $19.99 (plus shipping and handling and a gratuity to the professor....)

Let me also say I have a wide circle of friends and acquaintances that range from science nerd to redneck to eclectic individuals to new age quacks (and I won't state where I fall in that continuum:rofl  I simply try to keep an open mind to the many possibilities our world presents, and I like interesting conversations.  I do not believe or agree with everything, but I listen to all and pick the grains of truth that speak to me......

That said, I know several folks who "practice" reiki, and each has a varying level of my confidence in thier abilities.One, is a co-worker who does massages on the side and talks about how he manipulates energies and gets all hyped up on the interchange (and the noice cash flow)......:uhyeah:ewwwww

One is a friend who believes he is a reincarnation of an ancient Atlantian healer, and he offers his energy manipulations to his freinds and family for free.  He is also a certified massage therapist.  I have not partaken of his skills, but I know several freinds who rave about his talent and how he helps them deal with pain (one being a woman with fibromyalgia and swears his sessions help her on bad days).

The last is a shaman who I have been seeing for a few months.  She doesn't set a fee, and considers my donations of home cooked meals and a small cash donation as a generous exchange.  I went to my first session not expecting a lot and figuring that it couldn't hurt to try.  I can only speak from my experience, but I have felt warmth, tingles, and energy flows that were not related to any physical sensations..I have felt dizzy and then felt the world right itself...and I have had images and thoughts rise and lead me to insights during and after these sessions.  I know her hands generate warmth as she moves along my body...and she rarely actually touches me.  I can feel the heat from several inches away.  I don't seek to explain or to convince anyone...these are my own experiences that I choose to share.

I do not think that every practicitioner has a clue or even the necessary skills.  I do not think this is a path that would work for everyone, and it is even possible that she is simple a conduit to help me bring out things that I already knew on a deeper level.  But it has worked dramatic changes in how I view my self, my past, and the energy I carry...and she is also the person who finally gave me the encouragement I needed to start MA...so I think there is something in this.

Bob, I agree with Shesulsa....speak to several practitioners...books are a good starting place, but a teacher is priceless....just make sure they resonate with you.  I wish you well!


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## Cruentus (Jan 11, 2008)

Bob Hubbard said:


> I've dealt with a few vampires.  brrrr.   It's good to see both pro and con information. Alot of what I read just seems ah, non-functional, but it's contradicted by a different source. I'm finding this happening alot as people with minimal real knowledge get books published. (Most of the Feng Shui books I find are written by New Age mix-n-matchers, for example).
> 
> I saw the "jump 3 levels to mastery in a week" stuff and it set off red flags, however I do  see as true much of the ideas I read in reiki, as well as qi etc.



See; I am of the opinion that when people start talking in terms of "levels" in regards to things that cannot be objectively verified, then it is bull ****. The obvious question is how can you determine a level if you cannot objectively verify what seperates one level from another, or objectively verify results? At that point, it is all subjective posturing and pigeon holing to make people feel more powerful or better then another.

As to not charging money; if you had verifiable results and benefits to a customer that could be demonstrated, then there should be no problems with charging money. Because you don't have that with Reiki, then to charge would be unethical. What would you be paying for? At that point it amounts to paying for someone to pray for you...


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## Cruentus (Jan 11, 2008)

shesulsa said:


> You owe me a new monitor and a new keyboard.  And a coke.  Better make it iced tea because coke burns like heck coming out my nose.  A "special word???" Okay, okay - two questions:
> 
> 1. What were they smoking?
> 2. Where can I get some?
> ...



I guess the question is, how do you know that it works beyond your own, and the practitioners own subjectivity? Or is it pretty much like prayer, where you do it and have faith that the appropriate outcome will occur, regardless of what seems best at the time.



> To be honset, I'm so scattered with my efforts I can only offer what I know.  I don't feel great about flying around scanning internet articles on this and "proving" anything.  I don't have high respect for scientific double-blind studies because they have been performed on drugs now taken off the market.  They have fallen in great favor of the placebo affect, however I don't see doctors prescribing placebos - I see them prescribing designer drugs you or your family will have to see a lawyer about later.  I have about as much respect for these as I do for the countless charlatans claiming to tell your future, cure your cancer with psychic surgery, knock you out with chi balls or sell you oceanfront property in Arizona.
> 
> It is not easy to find good, real Reiki practitioners and I wish ANYONE looking for one the luck of the world.
> 
> Peace.




Hey, let's face it; there is a lot of money in drugs. Not so much in Reiki. 

Although I hear what empty hands is saying regarding this, I don't completely agree because ineffective drugs often get pushed through the marketplace, and the studies supporting them often lack in evidence. However, they do have studies, and they do have to follow a standard. Problem with drug standards isn't so much that the drugs don't get results, it is that often the results aren't as good or any better then a non-pharmacutical solution, and they aren't without side effects that can sometimes be severe. But I digress...

You talk about "real Reiki" practitioners and charlatans. So I guess my question is, how does someone know the difference? How can we separate the "real" from "fake." I know I have my biases, and I am not trying to gang up on you because of those; I am just curious about that part of it is all...


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## Xue Sheng (Jan 11, 2008)

Bob Hubbard said:


> Ginseng.


 
From a TCM POV Ginseng should not be taken anywhere near as much as people in the US take it. It is not as "safe" as people believe.

Many illnesses are caused by heat and people run off gets some Ginseng and think it will make them ALL better. 

Ginseng is VERY good at causing heat so illness caused by heat then take ginseng and add more heat... not a good thing.

Sorry for


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## Xue Sheng (Jan 11, 2008)

Bob Hubbard said:


> Ginseng.


 
From a TCM POV Ginseng should not be taken anywhere near as much as people in the US take it. It is not as "safe" as people believe.

Many illnesses are caused by heat and people run off gets some Ginseng and think it will make them ALL better. 

Ginseng is VERY good at causing heat so illness caused by heat then take ginseng and add more heat... not a good thing.

Sorry for the off Reiki post but I felt that should be addressed


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## Bob Hubbard (Jan 11, 2008)

C - You just summed up my "who's the higher ranked 1st degree black belt argument" dude. ROFL!

Xue - No worries. Was a good point.


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## Cruentus (Jan 11, 2008)

Bob Hubbard said:


> C - You just summed up my "who's the higher ranked 1st degree black belt argument" dude. ROFL!



lol... very true. Unfortunatily the problems that seem to occur in the Reiki world mirror what we see in some martial arts circles...

*For the record*: 

Shesulsa and others, I am not slamming on your beliefs or anything. If you practice that sort of thing that is cool with me. I am just stating where I see the problems (that I think you will agree with) and trying to understand. Every belief system where people get involved has flaws at an organizational/social level at the very least. For example, I am Christian; though I am contemplative, various churches and such aren't without problems. So the fact that there are weirdo's out there doing Reiki, that doesn't mean that I think that everyone who does it is a weirdo anymore then I would hope that people don't think I am a weirdo because there are weirdo Christians out there.

Also, I find that Reiki (from things practitioners have said) blurs the line between a belief system and a holistic health  system.  That is where I have trouble understanding. I have no problems with the belief system part of it.  When  it is  touted as a  holistic  health system, that is where I have problems; because a holistic health or any system that claims to cure or heal needs to be able to demonstrate that it can objectively do so for it to be valid.


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## Bob Hubbard (Jan 11, 2008)

2 words : Faith Healer.
See Also: Jim Baker, TV Preacher, Oral Roberts, etc.

Ok, seriously, coming from a "thinking this through a bit" perspective.... IF things like Reiki and other "life force effecting" things work we simply don't have a means to measure it.  We don't have the Star Trek bio-bed, nor can we see "hit points" to tell how much life we have or are transfering.

We can however measure the results.  Some of which, will be placebo effects.
Then again, did the asprin eliminate my headache, or did it go away on it's own?
If I get a cold, I'm sick for 7 days, however if I take my cold medicine I'[m only sick for a week. Oh, wait.....

If I lay hands on some one and believe I am transfering energy, or manipulating theirs...maybe I am, maybe I'm not.  If I think and they think that this is happening and their headache goes away...maybe I did it..and maybe they did it.and maybe it just went away.

So, if I do this 100 times, and I seem to be successful most of the time....it might mean I have a power. Or not.  Because, it's not like messuring watts or water.

I've seen the same arguments against used for accupuncture, qigong, qi/ki/chi etc. 

I've also seen and experienced some....interesting things, which I can't explain and have had others verify that tell me "there may be something to all this".

It's not a "I want reiki to be real". I don't care. If it's debunked, it's debunked. It's but one of numerous similar ideas out there that I have the same questions, interest, etc in. Maybe it is real, but most of the folks doing it simply (for whatever reason) don't have the real gift, something I recall hearing about Qigong as well.

That all make sense?


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## JadecloudAlchemist (Jan 12, 2008)

I think the problem as I said before with studies is the defination of the word. If we are to look at the characters literally a study would most likely not find anything. If we define it as some sort of mystical energy than again through wrong defination does the study most likely find nothing.
And that contributes to alot of studies of searching for mystic universal life energy. If are to place the defination of these Asian words to mean such things than by all means Western studies will fail to prove it's existance. The problem also lays in what type of Qi, Ki, or Prana we are talking about. Those in old times refered to it as energy if it were Earth or Heaven or Man energy the definations into modern time would be Earth=Geometric energy/Geothermal energy Heaven=Weather conditions
and Man=Bioelectromagnetic energy. Science has already proven these conditions exist so there is no mystery behind it however if we still use the coin term of it as mystic energy than trying to measure it by that defination will result in a failed study.


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## East Winds (Jan 12, 2008)

Shesulsa,

Sorry about the keyboard, and I know what you mean about the coke down the nose syndrome. OOOOOOOOH painful:shrug:. From your input, you are clearly not only a very sincere person, but also a knowledgeable one. And "knowledgeable" is where I have the greatest problem with  "Do it in a weekend Reiki Masters". I have absolutely no problem with Chi energy and energy channels/chakras. As a taiji practitioner with 18 years practical experience, it took me a very long time to start to "work" with Chi. I do not need "proof" that energies work. (Look at the energies of Taiji). However I do not believe that you can learn to use and manipulate these energies without some serious time and study. That seems to be Reiki's main problem. The majority seem to have ( and I have no empirical proof of this statement) very little "real" knowledge of energies or their manipulation. As I have said on another thread, one of my Taiji teachers was also a Doctor of TCM and he said he spent more time fixing bad Reiki treatments than he did any other type of treatment. (i.e. blocked energy, excess Yang energy etc. etc.).

Anyway thanks for your considered input, it is always appreciated.

Very best wishes


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## Xue Sheng (Jan 13, 2008)

Bob Hubbard said:


> It's not a "I want reiki to be real". I don't care. If it's debunked, it's debunked. It's but one of numerous similar ideas out there that I have the same questions, interest, etc in. Maybe it is real, but most of the folks doing it simply (for whatever reason) don't have the real gift, something I recall hearing about Qigong as well.
> 
> That all make sense?


 
There are a lot of poorly trained and bad Qigong people out there as well, doesn't mean it is fake just that some of those practicing it are.

I have read this post and I have kept my opinion to myself and I do actually have an opinion about reiki (no surprise there) and it is not high. But that is not to say that there are not real, well-trained, successful Reiki people out there. There are a lot of charlatans in TCM in the west as well (many of those are Chinese) and I know from personal experience if you go to a HIGHLY trained and qualified TCM person it works. But then my Taiji sifu use to have to fix people that had gone to very bad TCM people. And my wife has got some pretty amazing stories to tell about that as well. 

As to Reiki, at least in my area of the world it is a very quick way to take money from people for doing nothing. 

I am going to read the things that Shesulsa suggested and I hope, I really do, that I find there is more to it than I have seen in my area. 

There use to be a person on MT, who no longer posts here (sadly), that changed my mind from Reiki is fake to it is possible that the people I have seen are fake but reiki is real if you are PROPERLY trained.


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## shesulsa (Jan 17, 2008)

Been distracted with R/L stuff lately folks - will catch up to this in a couple of days.


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## Carol (Jan 17, 2008)

I too have an issue with the "learn Reiki in a weekend" schlock as well as other people that use Reiki as a way (or along with) pushing some kind of agenda or ulterior motive.  Unfortunately there seems to be quite a bit of this in naturopathic/holistic circles.  Personally I find that to be extremely repulsive.

I don't think I can change the mind of a doubter or a skeptic, nor do I intend to.  My experiences with Reiki are like my martial arts training:  I do it for me. It has been an appreciated part of m life.   I like what it does for me.  It has changed me for the better in many ways.

Reiki to me is not really a health system.  I see an opthamologist for my eyes, an orthodontist for my teeth.....and should I be unlucky enough to get hurt or fall very ill, I'd insist on paramedics and EMT's taking me to a hospital, not a Reiki practitioner.

However, when I have seen a Reiki practitioner, the changes she made in my "energy" and how I was feeling were immediate, and permanent.  Thats not to say that I haven't gone out of balance again....I have....but not in the same way.

I've had a tiny bit of training.  Not very much, I don't even qualify as a level one practitioner.  I am not at the point where I feel that I can practice with another person.  I did do some practice with my cat, Alex, when he was alive.  Did it affect him?   He seemed to like it, as my teacher said he would.  I generally concentrated on his ribcage.  

The day he died, I found out Alex had lung cancer.  The cancer was spread all throughout his lungs.  My vet said he was shocked at the extent...that he had never seen animals with cancer that bad without the animals showing severe signs of distress, such as coughing up blood, or not being able to breathe.  Alex had never shown any signs of respiratory distress, and he passed away in peace.  The vet estimates that he may have had the cancer for 2 or 3 years, or longer.    I saw the x-rays, I even saw him make a point of showing the x-rays to his part time doctors that helped out at his clinic.  I almost wish I hadn't, it was an ugly thing to see.  I don't know if doing Reiki on his ribcage had eased any of his distress or not...but I can't help but wonder if it was a possibility...

I don't see my Reiki teacher very often.  One one hand, that to me is a testament as to how good her work is....but on the other it means I'm still very much a noob.

That and $2.00 gets ya a Poland Springs at the corner store, and you might even get back some....change.  *rimshot*


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## East Winds (Jan 17, 2008)

Carol,

I can fully appreciate what you are saying. I believe that Reiki is a very potent art that can be used to manipulate energies, just as Taiji and Qigong can be used in energy balancing. However, I do not believe that these effects can be trained in a short period or without some serious study of the human body. The TCM doctor and Taiji teacher I talked about also practiced Reiki but said that no one should practice Reiki on another without having at least ten years experience and training. To many, it is an easy access to the "alternative" therapies gravy train. Whilst to others it is an easy and painless way to earn a fast buck.

Just my two pence worth.

Very best wishes


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## shesulsa (Jan 17, 2008)

I'm curious why we are still focusing on the idea that Reiki can supposedly be learned in a weekend, or a few hours? I think it's been agreed upon that it cannot.  You can read the book and get the content you need in that period of time but you cannot bring it into your being in that short a period of time.

You can learn a whole form in a few hours. But do you own that form? Memorization is one thing - owning the material is another.  If you learned all your rank material in a weekend, would you be ready for promotion? I think not.

So I'll take a moment to reiterate what I stated before - because I think some are missing it.

I don't believe a person can "become a Reiki master" or "practitioner" in a few hours or days.  It takes practice like anything else.

There's more to address here, I know, but my time is limited and I'm spreading myself over a few threads here on MT. Will post later today on this. Thanks!


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## Xue Sheng (Jan 17, 2008)

shesulsa said:


> So I'll take a moment to reiterate what I stated before - because I think some are missing it.
> 
> I don't believe a person can "become a Reiki master" or "practitioner" in a few hours or days. It takes practice like anything else.
> 
> There's more to address here, I know, but my time is limited and I'm spreading myself over a few threads here on MT. Will post later today on this. Thanks!


 
Actually there is no need to reiterate as far as I am concerned; I understand what you are saying. But the majority of the alleged Reiki practitioners I have come across do not agree with you and lord knows I wish they did. 

I see the same exact thing in acupuncture and in TCM and that is mainly being done by people who are MDs already deciding to get into acupuncture on the side. They only need a few short weeks of training and BANG they are an acupuncturist, as opposed to my wife that went to school for 6 years or my Sifu that followed acupuncture Sifu for many years.

And don't get me started on herbology charlatans that run about dispensing herbal like pixy dust


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## Formosa Neijia (Apr 5, 2008)

East Winds said:


> I can fully appreciate what you are saying. I believe that Reiki is a very potent art that can be used to manipulate energies, just as Taiji and Qigong can be used in energy balancing. However, I do not believe that these effects can be trained in a short period or without some serious study of the human body. The TCM doctor and Taiji teacher I talked about also practiced Reiki but said that no one should practice Reiki on another without having at least ten years experience and training. To many, it is an easy access to the "alternative" therapies gravy train. Whilst to others it is an easy and painless way to earn a fast buck.



I don't do Reiki but I do a form of etheric qigong that is similar to it. It's usually used for qi healing.

One of the reasons they say that you can learn these systems in a few hours is that we already have qi flowing through our bodies, but most people can't feel it. The technique to acquire the feeling seems to be fairly standard and it is possible to "turn it on" in a short time. It took my about 5 times to make it work because I wasn't relaxed enough but when I got it wow. And the feeling was their any time after that I wanted to access it.

So learning doesn't take long. Mastering it is another discussion. But running the energy also isn't harmful so using it on others doesn't tend to be a problem most of the time.

About the "words" these work like mantras. They tend to focus the mind so that negative energy can't enter. You'll find such beliefs throughout many religions. 

About reiki specifically, I think the training gets out of hand price-wise in all the levels nonsense but then I haven't been through the training. Some of my friends have done the first few levels and I rely on them for info.

I did have a specific experience with reiki that took me years to process. I wrote about it here:
http://formosaneijia.com/2006/09/07/qi-healing-my-experience/

The main thing that experience taught me was that things beyond the normal boundaries do sometimes work whether we believe in them or not.

The main problem with reiki and other energy healing is that there is no frame of reference in Western society for what it does or how it works. People expect energy healing to knock them over or they go try it after everything else has already failed. At that point, nothing is likely to work. 

Finally, I would suggest that people look at a number of different systems that use similar techniques: therapeutic touch, quantum healing, taichi touch, qi healing, all of these are related.

The qi healing DVD by Ken Cohen seems especially good and it ties in with the rest of his qigong system. That's a big bonus because it opens up other possibilities with the qi once you have it.

Peace.


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## marlon (Apr 9, 2008)

Learning reiki is in some sense a misnomer.  The level one week end thingy is valid in that it clears one and connects one to the energy in a particular way...then you need to practice.  There are the mechanics to learn and sensitivity to be developed before moving to the next level...if ever.  the main reiki organization at one time held a very tight control and set fees in vacuum of competion.  So, when the natural rebellion against it came about many good things were thrown out with the fee structure including continuing close contact with your teacher and time between levels and the necessity to be told when you were ready for the next level.  Of course the inevitable dumbing down of things.  Where without explaination and contray to what should be taught at level one "intent" becomes everything and this is where people can do things that more competent energy workers may need to "fix"
level two after sufficint growth at level one can indeed be shown in a week end but a month would be better. However, it takes years to develop this level sufficintly.  there is daily work that needs to be done, and understanding that will not simply come on its own, but rather requires specific focus and knowledge and exercises.  To be sure it is much less extensive that more traditional asian energy work and can be almost equally beneficial, yet it is not a few slaps on the hands some 'keys' and your done
mastery / level 3 / teaching level is best done as an apprenticiship prgm after years at level 2 and should take a minimum of 6 months to complete, depending on the student.  there are, again exercises to learn and things to study and experience to be gained guided by a teacher before one is even attuned to this level let alone completing it.
in the martial arts one wears a belt but has not complerted that level until one goes on to the next belt...this is a good way to think of it  I remeber once a gentleman i was speaking with about taiji and qigong touched me on my shoulders and my sternal notch with two of his fingers ended our conversation and then left.  About 30 sec. later i ran him down in the hall way to ask him what he did because i was feeling somethin like a liquid warmth flowing through  (what i now know as the microcosmic orbit)  he congratulated me on noticing the feeling and left.  If i would have considered my self to have achieved a level of competency in qi gong because of this i would have been like the reiki masters who learn reiki in a week end.  something happened to be sure, but it was a tiny first step that needed much more to amount to anything significant  and / or helpful

my thoughts

Marlon


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