# JKD without...... ?



## twinkletoes (Aug 19, 2003)

I met someone yesterday who has 11 years of JKD experience but doesn't know how to fight on the ground.  He has never learned.

It sounds to me like all he's been doing is Jun Fan Kickboing and Wing Chun trapping, with maybe some FMA weapons.  

Call me crazy, but this doesn't sound like JKD to me.

Isn't the point of JKD to gain experience in all ranges of fighting, so that one can flow from range to range or tactic to tactic smoothly, in way that is natural for each individual?  Isn't a JKD instructor supposed to introduce all ranges, so that students can find their sweet spot?  

I understand if beginner's aren't shoved into the ground, but after 11 years?

~TT


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## sercuerdasfigther (Aug 19, 2003)

i think jkd is about finding what fits you. after 1 day or 11 years i don't feel any jkder should be obligated to add any art they chose not to. alot of jkd guys add new arts continuosly so how could you keep up.


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## twinkletoes (Aug 19, 2003)

I don't mean to say that I think he should be adding things.  

I am asking if he has not been exposed to enough things to make a decision yet.  

I think in order to make that decision, you have to have at least _some_  training in kickboxing, clinching, groundfighting, and weapons.  After you've trained in all those ranges, THEN you are ready to say which range you will focus on and make your own.  

But to specialize before you have all those experiences is not JKD, in my humble opinion.  

~TT

PS - I think that Roy Harris' article "What is JKD?" is a perfect example of how Bruce expected the JKD idea to be carried out.  It can be seen at www.royharris.com.


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## sercuerdasfigther (Aug 19, 2003)

i just read the article by roy harris, my biggest concern with that is the part were he says some guys train a month or two this, then a month of two of that etc. and feels the can decide what works for them , when the actually can not. the same can be said for bruce himself. he had uncompleted wc training, but decided it didn't work for him. some of the concepts he got he read out of books. and it is said that when it went down he would go right to the blast. maybe he should have finished his wc before changing it.


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## twinkletoes (Aug 19, 2003)

I think you are making a *big* jump there.  Mr. Harris didn't say you need "complete" training in any art or range.  He said you need a lot of experiences sparring in each range, or with each technique.  He gives each level of the program 18-24 months.

It would be silly to say you need to know "the whole art" before judging it.  We are not trying to look at the "lifetime value" of studying wing chun.  We are evaluating the merits of its training methodology for realistic self-defense training.  Certainly that can be done with a couple years' experience.

Bruce himself studied and even taught Wing Chun for many years before he changed it.  I don't think anyone would try to argue that he didn't know enough of it (except for maybe some closed minded Wing Chun stylists).  

There is a large difference between "a month or two" and "finishing" "complete training" in a single art.  Most people would say that a lifetime is not enough to "finish" one art.  I think that a couple years of sparring in that range is plenty.  I see no contradiction.

~TT


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## progressivetactics (Aug 19, 2003)

Jkd has only incorporate ground stuff in the past 12 years.  Well, at least the main players.  Some may have dabbled it, but it really wasn't until the brazilians made their name in UFC that made JKD top brass look at them.  So, Maybe the 11 years was with an instructor who didn't really have that kind of back ground, as his instuctor may have come from an earlier time.

I also agree that JKD is for individual exploration...not necessarily a set of diferetn arts one must master.


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## James Kovacich (Aug 19, 2003)

> _Originally posted by twinkletoes _
> *I don't mean to say that I think he should be adding things.
> 
> I am asking if he has not been exposed to enough things to make a decision yet.
> ...



First let me say that I've trained a bit under Roy when he came to teach my former BJJ instructor and we've talked a bit and he definately has an "aura" about him. You just know he can be dangerous!

Second I agree with sercuerdasfigther about no JKD'er should be obligated to explore other arts and even more so if you are so accomplished at what you do that you don't really need to add more arts, just refine what you have.

Third, I've seen in action and trained with a few accomplished JKD'ers and I honestly beleive that my Sifu is the "baddest" JKD fighter I've seen. 
http://www.geocities.com/Tao_Of_Gung_Fu/The_Nucleus_Of_Gung_Fu.html
There is no bias here. I'm being honest here. He is in his mid 40's and his father started training him when he was 8 years old. Both James Lee and Bruce (more James) taught him a bit when his dad took him to class. He is no joke. His fathers teachings which he has modified to his own is all he's ever trained (meaning no other martial art classes) and he does NOT grapple.

Don't misunderstandme. Wing Chun, Aikido, Boxers and Jujutsu players come to train with him. I have these guys on video tape. He "understands" how others will come at him. He is a pureist and he has given me something that can never give back to him equally. 

My point is people always say what JKD is or is not and thats not what its about. In Bruces own words:

"If people say Jeet Kune Do is different from "this" or from "that," then let the name of Jeet Kune Do be wiped out, for that is what it is, just a name. Please don't fuss over it."



:asian:


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## sercuerdasfigther (Aug 20, 2003)

people are always trying to quote bruce to decide where jkd should be, but like the bible quotes are open to interpitation. bruce is gone so what he would have done with jkd is irrealivant the art is left to those who train it.

   (god my spelling sucks....)


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## ufsofpa (Feb 9, 2006)

Ok first of all, if he does not have the slightest bit of grappling knowledge, then he is not doing JKD. Remember there are 4 ranges in JKD, punching, kicking,trapping,and grappling. If he does not know how to grapple, the basic holds , then I advise you to seek out another instructor. Because he is not teaching what Bruce had put into JKD. Sounds like he just studied a bunch of other arts, threw them together and calls it JKD. You need to see who he trained under and research him, if he comes from a JKD background, then he would know how to do the basic grappling in JKD. Even today JKD has a strong grappling background. More and more instructors are studying either BJJ or Sombo. Even Guru Dan has a blackbelt in BJJ under the Machados. So, again Im just recomending that you go elsewhere.


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## jkd friend (Sep 21, 2006)

Yes but sifu bruce also said to personalize it to yourself, yes it covers all ranges but people have been disecting sifu bruce lee's JKD since his death to use what they want and believe.


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## Flatlander (Sep 23, 2006)

Unfortunately, it appears as though you're responding to people who will not read your comments.  Note that the majority of posts in this thread were three years ago.

However, I do agree that grappling, on some level, is incorporated into most genuine JKD training.  The idea that someone is 'unable' to 'fight' on the ground after 11 years of JKD training is unthinkable.  In fact, one would expect that, after 11 years they'd at least naturally attempt to apply their stand up skills and attributes on the ground as best as they could, which ought to at least provide them with some level of proficiency.


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