# Philosophy In Taeguek Poomsae



## Miles (Oct 31, 2005)

Sorry for what is sure to be a long post, but we were discussing philosophy and history of the Taeguek poomsae.

During the 1950's Korean martial artists were primarily performing Okinawan and Chinese forms. With the efforts to unify the various Kwans came an effort to standardize the material taught. To this end, the Korea Taekwondo Association had representatives from the various Kwans become members of the Poomsae Committee.

The task of the Poomsae Committee was to create uniquely Korean Taekwondo poomsae. The members of the Committee and their Kwan affiliation were:

1) KWAK Kun Sik (Chung Do Kwan)
2) LEE Yong Sup (Song Moo Kwan)
3) PARK Hae Man (Chung Do Kwan)
4) HYUN Jong Myung (Oh Do Kwan)
5) KIM Soon Bae (Chang Moo Kwan)

These original members created the Palgwae poomsae and the Yudanja poomsae (Koryo through Ilyo). It is important to emphasize that the Oh Do Kwan, which were using the Chon Ji forms created by Gen. Choi, participated in the creation of the new KTA poomsae, and thus were an active part of the unification process. The Oh Do Kwan member who participated was GM HYUN Jong Myung, the Oh Do Kwan Jang at the time. 

The Palgwae poomsae were the first uniquely Korean Taekwondo poomsae. Unfortunately, they were created without the input of two of the original Kwans: the Jidokwan and the Moo Duk Kwan. The reason for this is that the Kwan Jangs of these Kwans: Dr. YOON, Kwe Byung and GM HWANG, Kee, respectively, had left the Korea Taekwondo Association and had a rival organization, the Korea Soo Bahk Do Association.

Several years later, a majority of Jidokwan (under the leadership of GM LEE, chong Woo) and Moo Duk Kwan (lead by GM HONG, Chong Soo) members rejoined the Korea Taekwondo Association. At that time, it was felt that the input of these Kwans should be included, and new poomsae, the Tae Guek series was created. The additional members from the Jidokwan and Moo Duk Kwan were:

6) LEE Chong Woo (Jidokwan)
7) BAE Young Ki (Jidokwan)
8) HAN Yong Tae (Moo Duk Kwan)
(Names and Kwan affiliation of Poomsae Committee members comes to me courtesy of my friend and senior Glenn U. from his many conversations with Kwan founders and pioneers).

Background. In order to discuss the philosophical context of the Taeguek series, it might be a good idea to look at what "Tae" "Guek" means. "Tae" means "largeness" and "Guek" means "eternity." Together the thought behind "Taeguek" represents the creation of the universe. The symbol for Taeguek is the familiar red/blue yin/uhm (negative) and yang (positive). The circle of the Taeguek symbolizes infinity-no beginning or end. Around the outside of the Taeguek are 8 "gwes" or "Palgwe". 

Each of these "gwe" consist of various combinations of three solid (yang) or broken (uhm) bars. From the 12 O'clock position and moving clockwise, the order of the Palgwe is as follows: "keon", "seon", "kam", "kan", "kon", "jin", "ri", and 

"tae."  For those who are not familiar with what the Palgwe symbols look like, you can see them here: 

http://fisks.com/tkd/taeguek_poomse.html

Philosophy:
Taeguek 1 represents "keon" which is heaven-that which is great and original-it is the first poomsae so it is easy to learn. Since it has 3 solid bars, it is all "yang" or positive.

Taeguek 2 represents "tae" which is strength of mind-gentle or soft on the outside, firm of intention on the inside.

Taeguek 3 represents "ri" which is sun or fire or light. It is hot and bright like one's passion for training. It is the last of the beginner poomsae.

Taeguek 4 represents "jin" which is thunder. It is loud and strong but disappears and brings forth freshness. This poomsae is for intermediate students-those who have trained long enough to have a grasp of basic techniques but desirous of new challenges. One of the challenges of this poomsae is the introduction of returing the kicking leg to its original position.

Taeguek 5 represents "seon" or wind. Wind can be refreshing like a gentle breeze or overwhelming like Hurrican Rita. Like a gathering storm, Taeguek 5 starts out with easy motions and builds up to a crescendo with the front kick/stomp and backfist combination at the end.

Taeguek 6 represents "gam" or water. Water can form to fit any container yet can also be dangerous. Like water, this poomsae has both fluid and strong motions such as the ending combination of pushing blocks and reverse punches.

Taeguek 7 represents "kan" or mountain. A mountain is majestic and can be either tranquil or angry.This is an advanced poomsae and the majesty of the covering fist (ITF stylists begin "Won Hyo" in this position) pause followed by the scissors block is an example.

Taeguek 8 represents "kon" or earth-the opposite of heaven so it consists of 3 broken sets of bars (all yin-negative). The earth is firm, rooted, like those ready to test for black belt who are grounded in their knowledge and like earth, ready to spring forth with new knowledge.

Technical Aspects:
The first 3 poomsae are for beginners. They are characterized by simple, straightforward moves such as walking stances, low blocks, middle and upper section punches. The only kicking technique is a front kick, again, the most basic of the kicks. 

Nevertheless, they increase in level of difficulty from 1 through 3. For example, in Taeguek 1, the 5th motion is a low block in front stance followed immediately by a reverse punch. In Taeguek 3, there is a middle section knife hand block in a back stance followed immediately by a stance change before the middle section punch.

The second set of 3 (i.e. Taeguek 4-6) are intermediate poomsae. These poomsae introduce increasingly difficult techniques. For example, Taeguek 4 introduces double knife hand block, spear hand strike with push block, simultaneous knife hand block and neck strike, consecutive side kicks, and body-weight concepts (i.e. returning kicking leg to original stance, use of forward momentum from front kick in subsequent front back fist strike).

The final 2 poomsae in the Taeguek series, Taeguek 7 & 8 are advanced poomsae. They have a different feel and flow than the earlier 6 poomsae. In fact, Taeguek 7 has what I perceive to be an almost "kung-fu-like" feel with soft palm blocks, body-weight shifting 180 degrees in tiger stances, and inside crescent kicks to open hand targets. Taeguek 8 likewise diffentiates between kicking combinations moving forward and those which are stationary. It also introduces in the final half a sliding stepping motion not seen in any of the earlier poomsae.

What is fascinating about the Taeguek series is that the footwork matches the respective Palgwe symbol. So, if one were to do Taeguek 4 for instance in the sand, from overhead, the sand would be marked with the Palgwe symbol "ri." Clearly there was a great deal of thought put into the series. 

Miles


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## terryl965 (Oct 31, 2005)

Miles that was a great brief statement of the taegueks can you in detail give the reasoning behind each poomse starting with #1. Such like why are they in walking stances and why are the kick so simple and the blocks be so basic. If they where invented to bring out the best that each kwan had to offer at that time why are they so simple compares to the Chonji poomse and the pawlgues. If they was suppose to bring unity from withen should the stances be at a wider gap for support one of the biggest arguments about the tae gueks is it simplicity, a strong wind could move a person in a walking stance. I'll wait for your reply and then I'll put in my two cents worth over my own questions.

Sincerly 
Terry Lee Stoker

P.S. I can only wait in anticipation to every one's views over this subject.


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## ajs1976 (Oct 31, 2005)

Any thoughts one why there are few kicks?  With Taekwondo being a kicking art, it seems like there should be more balance.


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## rmclain (Nov 1, 2005)

Hi Miles,

Thank you for posting this information.  I've enjoyed reading it.

I know that the yudanja forms (koryo-ilyo) were created and introduced in clinics by the KTA (the first clinic in December 1967).  The Palgue hyung were not introduced at this time.  I am assuming they were created sometime in 1972-73 as the first clinics teaching these form by the KTA were in 1972-73.  I can find out for sure on dates for this.

I believe the Tae Guek forms were introduced in 1974, along with a new version of Koryo - but perhaps you can give me the date on this since I don't practice those forms (Taeguek & koryo #2).

The story you wrote sounds like a noble effort of various leaders to create something unique and have as many people involved as possible. 

 What I curious about is:  

1) Was the Tae Guek creation (& Koryo #2) decided by this group in what appears to be 1 or 2 years (Palgue creation until Tae Guek creation)? 

 2) Why would those original kwan leaders abandon their original hyung & lineage to create this second group of new forms, which appear to be thrown together rather quickly, IMO?

R. McLain


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## Miles (Nov 1, 2005)

terryl965 said:
			
		

> ...If they was suppose to bring unity from withen should the stances be at a wider gap for support one of the biggest arguments about the tae gueks is it simplicity, a strong wind could move a person in a walking stance.


 
I can post something about each individual poomsae, but am afraid it will only serve as a remedy for insomnia. 

I believe that the reason the poomsae start from such easy simple motions is that there is a need to start from basic, foundational movement before transitioning to more advanced movement.

The walking stance is very simple, but it is also pretty deceptive.  As a stance with a high center of gravity, it allows for quick movement. However, as you point out, it is at the expense of stability.  It is deceptive because it does not appear to be a "fighting position."

Miles


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## Miles (Nov 1, 2005)

doc clean said:
			
		

> Any thoughts one why there are few kicks? With Taekwondo being a kicking art, it seems like there should be more balance.


 
Andy,

You hit the nail on the head.  The reason for so few kicks in the poomsae, is that there is a need to balance the kicking in the kyorugi/sparring with the hand techniques the poomsae primarily stress.  Neither of these aspects of Taekwondo exist in a vacuum.

Miles


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## terryl965 (Nov 1, 2005)

Miles said:
			
		

> I can post something about each individual poomsae, but am afraid it will only serve as a remedy for insomnia.
> 
> I believe that the reason the poomsae start from such easy simple motions is that there is a need to start from basic, foundational movement before transitioning to more advanced movement.
> 
> ...


Miles I was under the impression the walking stance was for the military to use it, in a more approbiate way while fighting. Also with all the background one has with all the help from all the Kwans you would believe it to have more of a Okinawa base instead of walking stances. For simpliticy we must first find out why, and then the how come will come in.
He is my two cents worth the Tae Gueks was brought together for the sole purpose of teaching TKD to the masses, kind of the way keep it simple stupid mentallity. They needed to seperate themself from everybody else and the walking and long stances did that for them it allowed them to have something nobody else had. It gave them there freedom.
terry


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## FearlessFreep (Nov 1, 2005)

Just an observation but I used to think the early Taeguek forms looked kinda ugly and simple, mostly because of the short stance

Then in working on some self-defense I noticed how many times at close range you would move your feet in a short manner.  a lot of timing going from a 'ready' stance to a walking stance as you countered a move.  It sorta dawned on me that while waking stance doesn't look like much, being self-aware of your body in that position and being able to reliably step the proper distance with balance is a good technique to learn


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## Flying Crane (Nov 1, 2005)

Miles said:
			
		

> During the 1950's Korean martial artists were primarily performing Okinawan and Chinese forms. With the efforts to unify the various Kwans came an effort to standardize the material taught. To this end, the Korea Taekwondo Association had representatives from the various Kwans become members of the Poomsae Committee.
> 
> The task of the Poomsae Committee was to create uniquely Korean Taekwondo poomsae. The members of the Committee and their Kwan affiliation were:
> 
> ...


 

I am not sure how to split this into a new thread, so if someone else can help, please jump in and lend a hand.  I know my question is going to be off-topic, so I think splitting it would be appropriate.  Thanks.

I was wondering about the different Kwan referenced above, and what information people can give about them.  I assume they are older lineages of some sort?  is this correct?  How are they related, different, similar?  Do they have distinct histories?  Thanks.

Michael


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## rmclain (Nov 2, 2005)

Each Kwan has its own history and lineage.  I'm sure you can find a thread on this web site that has already discussed it.  But, if you would like new discussion, a new thread is probably most appropriate.

R. McLain


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## Miles (Nov 2, 2005)

rmclain said:
			
		

> Hi Miles,
> 
> What I curious about is:
> 
> ...



I don't know the time frame but will do some further research.

As to the second question, I believe that the answer is that the desire to be inclusive was so great and the Palgwe poomsae had not been universally accepted so it was relatively easy to start fresh.

Miles


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## Miles (Nov 2, 2005)

rmclain said:
			
		

> Each Kwan has its own history and lineage. I'm sure you can find a thread on this web site that has already discussed it. But, if you would like new discussion, a new thread is probably most appropriate.
> 
> R. McLain



Michael,  as Robert mentions, there is are threads on TKD History.  However, here is a link to a site with the translated version of "The Modern History of Taekwondo."

http://www.martialartsresource.com/korean/korframe.htm

This book is only available in the Korean language but was translated by my senior Glenn U.'s students.



Miles


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## Miles (Nov 2, 2005)

terryl965 said:
			
		

> Miles I was under the impression the walking stance was for the military to use it, in a more approbiate way while fighting. Also with all the background one has with all the help from all the Kwans you would believe it to have more of a Okinawa base instead of walking stances. For simpliticy we must first find out why, and then the how come will come in.
> He is my two cents worth the Tae Gueks was brought together for the sole purpose of teaching TKD to the masses, kind of the way keep it simple stupid mentallity. They needed to seperate themself from everybody else and the walking and long stances did that for them it allowed them to have something nobody else had. It gave them there freedom.
> terry



Terry,

Remember the Walking Stance is Okinawan-you can see Funakoshi Gichin Sensei in this stance in his earliest book.  I don't know if it was ever used by the military of Okinawa or any other Asian country.

I agree that the Taegueks were created to specifically differentiate Taekwondo from other striking arts like Karate-Do or Kung-Fu.  But, I don't think they are necessarily simplistic-they utilize many of the same motions or combinations of motions as seen in those arts.  Also the Taegueks are generally balanced so that what is done on the left side is done on the right side too.

Another point that makes them actually quite complicated is that most of the motions transition very easily so that they can appear to be performed quite smoothly.  I think this is deceptive as it makes the poomsae look easier to perform.  For instance, notice how in Taeguek 2 the right arm in the high block at the end of the first sequence is exactly in position for the  spinning inside middle section block.  Nevertheless, to create something that looks so easy is very difficult and complicated.

Miles


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## Hollywood1340 (Nov 3, 2005)

You're telling me. Sa-Jang is killing me


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## FearlessFreep (Nov 3, 2005)

Sa-Jang was the first form to me that was actually a physical workout   Probably my age/weight combination (36/180lbs) but all the moving in extended stances, and especially the multiple sidekicks, it can give me a workout


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## Gemini (Nov 3, 2005)

FearlessFreep said:
			
		

> Sa-Jang was the first form to me that was actually a physical workout  Probably my age/weight combination (36/180lbs) but all the moving in extended stances, and especially the multiple sidekicks, it can give me a workout


 
A rude awakening from the first three to be sure. Just when you start thinking you got it, wala. Sah Jang.  Doing the 2 sides followed by a pefect back stance is tricky to say the least. Very hard to make look good much less just trying to keep your balance. :uhyeah:


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## ajs1976 (Nov 3, 2005)

One of my instructors called Sah Jang the first real Taeguk form.  The first three were just basic or introductory forms.


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## Miles (Nov 4, 2005)

FearlessFreep said:
			
		

> Sa-Jang was the first form to me that was actually a physical workout  Probably my age/weight combination (36/180lbs) but all the moving in extended stances, and especially the multiple sidekicks, it can give me a workout



  Sa Jang is a good workout.  Since it is symbolized by thunder, you have moments of build-up and explosive power.  It has a cadence different from the earlier poomsae.  Some of the more intermediate aspects of this poomsae is the introduction of the augmented knifehand block, the spearhand strike with palm block (first instance of simultaneous block and counter), the neck strike and knifehand high block (second instance of simultaneous block and counter), the consecutive side kicks, and body-shifting involved in returning the kicking leg to its original position while simultaneously doing a block with the same side arm.  Lots of good material to work on!

Miles


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## IcemanSK (Feb 13, 2007)

Thought I'd bump this thread. It's worth another look.


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## matt.m (Feb 13, 2007)

Il,EE,Sam,Sa, O.........These are all great for a workout.  If your not getting a workout then slow down your speed tempo.....not only that but you aren't getting the correct snap/pop or dropping your hips correctly for the hand strikes.  Just and opinion, I have used poomse for physical conditioning / physical therapy for about a year now and it is all good.


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## bluekey88 (Feb 13, 2007)

Here's what I;ve wondered as of late....is there any document laying out the techniques (bunkai in Japanes...not sure of the Korean term) imbedded in the poomse?  What were the creators intentions here?

I've seen this doen for the Chon-ji poomse but not for the Taeguk poomse and I think that would be an interesting study.  

Peace,
Erik


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## fireman00 (Feb 13, 2007)

Nice break down of the Palgwae's - I trained in WTF for 6 years before moving to a school that does both WTF and ITF and I'm a big fan of WTF forms.  I think that the hard  or straight line tactics of the WTF style is more suited towards self defense.


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## Last Fearner (Feb 14, 2007)

While I was reading this, I didn't realize until I read Iceman's post, that this was a thread bumped up from 2005.  All good stuff though, and does a great job of informing students about the philosophy behind the forms.

I did notice one thing though.  The title of the thread, and several posts within were spelling the term "Taegeuk" as "Taeguek."  Perhaps I'm being picky, but for consistency sake, the Korean vowel  " *&#12641;* " is usually translated as "eu" rather than "ue" and sounds like the double "oo" as in the English words "look" and "book."

*&#53468;&#44537;* = Tae geuk or "Taegeuk"

Take a look at the Korean script for the word "Hangeul" which means Korean writing (borrowed from this site: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hangul 
The horizontal blue line is for the "eu" vowel.





I have enjoyed learning, teaching, and thoroughly studying the movements of the Taegeuk and their philosophies over the past twenty years.  I came up through the ranks in the ATA learning the Chang Hon tul (I learned up to the 6th Dan form there although I had not tested that high).  In the early 80s I studied under a Korean at college who taught me the Pal-gwe.  It was difficult to switch, but I poured my heart into learning something new.

Between 1982 and 85, I was no longer with the ATA but I had developed my own variation of the Chang Hon with more advanced kicks because I thought the originals were not challenging enough.  Other instructors who saw my students performing them, liked the modifications.  When I was first introduced to the Taegeuk Poomsae in the mid 80s, I found it even more difficult to learn a whole new set of forms, and was very disappointed in the basic movements, short walking stances, and the fact that you barely went anywhere during the form.  Other forms took you all over the floor, but the Taegeuk seemed to have each line practically right on top of the other.

It wasn't until I had been teaching them for a few years that I really began to appreciate the beauty and genius of these forms.  The reality is that natural walking postures are better suited for most self defense situations, and a deep, low, fixed front stance (which is used in most other Taekwondo forms) should be saved for the finishing move.  A lot of criticism about Taekwondo is that you won't have time to go into deep stances, but of course, those are used at key points, when a powerful finishing move is appropriate.  As it was said, there is balance in the training with kicks and fast movements in Gyorugi, methodical and smooth transitions in forms, and a combination of high stance and low stance in one step-sparring.  It all comes together to make a great Art!

CM D.J. Eisenhart


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## Yeti (Feb 14, 2007)

bluekey88 said:


> Here's what I;ve wondered as of late....is there any document laying out the techniques (bunkai in Japanes...not sure of the Korean term) imbedded in the poomse? What were the creators intentions here?
> 
> I've seen this doen for the Chon-ji poomse but not for the Taeguk poomse and I think that would be an interesting study.
> 
> ...


 
Hi Erik
I've wondered the same thing and have (tried) to look a bit deeper into this topic. Here's a link to a thread on this subject that I started about 6 months ago. There are a few schools of thought presented as well as some really good information by all the posters. Hopefully this helps you get started. 

http://martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=40287&highlight=Bunkai

Cheers!


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## IcemanSK (Feb 14, 2007)

I began my TKD training doing Tae Geuk & Pal Gue poomsae & never thought much of it. I then went to an ITF-style school where the Chang Hon tul were taught. I had the feeling (like some) that the deeper stances of the Chang Hon were "better" because they had deeper stances & therefore were more "traditional."  

The Tae Geuks are growing on me (mainly due to GM Park's [Hae Man] influence), but it's taking a while. I'm partial to the Pal Gues, myself. I find them more challenging. But, doing the Tae Geuks daily, I'm finding the challenge in those as well.


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## Miles (Feb 14, 2007)

bluekey88 said:


> Here's what I;ve wondered as of late....is there any document laying out the techniques (bunkai in Japanes...not sure of the Korean term) imbedded in the poomse? What were the creators intentions here?
> 
> Erik


 
Welcome to MT Erik!  I know of no document which has the boon hae for the Taegueks.  We did get a few glimpses in Korea of applications, but it was not comprehensive.

Last Fearner-not sure why I used "ue" versus "eu".  As you pointed out, the latter is the correct Romanization.

Miles


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## zDom (Feb 14, 2007)

Since this thread has been revived, Im going to chime in now, too 

Let me start by saying I LOVE the Taegeuks.

At the Moo Sul Kwan dojang I trained at, white belts were required to start with Chang Hons Chon Ji and Taegeuk Il Chong.

Then the Taegeuks were required and the Chang Hons were optional  you could learn them IF the instructor thought you had your required form down well.

Then Chong Moo and Koryo were both required at il gup. Gaebek at first dan and Yu Shin at second dan were also required.

(I forget which WTF forms were required as I started first dan training under Moo Sul Kwan and completed it under the U.S. Chung Do Kwan.)

At first I just learned the Taegeuks so I was allowed to learn the Chang Hons. I trained Dan Gun, To San, Won Hyo, Yul Gok and Joon Gun.

I learned the movements to Toi Gye and Hwa Rang, but I never really put in the reps to learn the form because my attitude changed:

I started really liking the Taegeuks  a lot.

While I think the deep stances of Chang Hon are great training, I think the Taegeuks' mix of high and deep stances is even better (something I think should NOT be changed!).

I like the built-in philosophy in each of the Taegeuks. And I think the Taegeuks DO seem more like taekwondo (more kicking) while the Chang Hons are very Shotokan-ish.

Furthermore, I think the Taegeuks are better training tools for students coming up through the ranks with the nice progression in difficulty.

But excepting Koryo, which I think is a great form, I really like the Chang Hon dan forms over the WTFs.

Its almost like the WTF forms peak in difficulty at Koryo and then nosedive.

On the other hand, Gae bek (talk about a difficult form!) and Yu Shin (68 exhausting moves!) are just beautiful, to me. Part of me would like to seek out and learn the Chang Hon forms my organization skipped over to see if I like those as much.

Anybody who trained them care to give me their opinion?

But then, I have taken a different path (hapkido) and I really dont havent had the time to devote to ANY forms training until just recently.

Think I might brush up on the Taegeuks, Chung Moo, Koryo and Yu Shin, as these are my favs.  

Im waaaaay too rusty on Gae bek, though; I cant remember that pattern at all  only a couple of the sequences here and there.


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## rmclain (Feb 14, 2007)

Which version of Koryo did you learn?

R. mcLain




zDom said:


> Since this thread has been revived, Im going to chime in now, too
> 
> Let me start by saying I LOVE the Taegeuks.
> 
> ...


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## zDom (Feb 14, 2007)

rmclain said:


> Which version of Koryo did you learn?
> 
> R. mcLain



Not knowing exactly what you mean, I would answer:

"Not the OFFICIAL version."

Actually, I _was_ taught that the official version calls for knee/mid section for the initial sidekicks but was told that Moo Sul Kwan prefers them knee/head or even belt/head.

My personal preference (based on aesthetics and also what I think would work for me) is knee/head.

When I hooked up with the U.S. Chung Do Kwan, I got the distinct impression that my choice of targets for the sidekicks was fine with GM Sell.


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## Yeti (Feb 15, 2007)

FearlessFreep said:


> Just an observation but I used to think the early Taeguek forms looked kinda ugly and simple, mostly because of the short stance
> 
> Then in working on some self-defense I noticed how many times at close range you would move your feet in a short manner. a lot of timing going from a 'ready' stance to a walking stance as you countered a move. It sorta dawned on me that while waking stance doesn't look like much, being self-aware of your body in that position and being able to reliably step the proper distance with balance is a good technique to learn


Excellent post. At my old school my instructor used to make us walk from one end of the dojang to the other. At the end was Sabunim holding a focus pad and without breaking stride, we had to throw (and land) a roundhouse kick to the pad. It really made you appreciate the walking stance and as you mentioned, being aware of your body while in that position.


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## rmclain (Feb 15, 2007)

Looks like you do the 1974 version of Koryo.  There is an older, completely different version, that was created and introduced in 1967.  They don't resemble each other at all. 

R. McLain






zDom said:


> Not knowing exactly what you mean, I would answer:
> 
> "Not the OFFICIAL version."
> 
> ...


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## Miles (Feb 16, 2007)

Robert, do you know of a website which might have the older Koryo version online?

TIA!

Miles


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## Laurentkd (Feb 16, 2007)

Miles said:


> Robert, do you know of a website which might have the older Koryo version online?
> 
> TIA!
> 
> Miles



I was about to ask the same thing! I would love to see it.


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## rmclain (Feb 17, 2007)

Laurentkd said:


> I was about to ask the same thing! I would love to see it.


 
I wish I knew of a video.  I did a search on youtube.com this morning and found 4 pages of the 1974 version of Koryo, but not 1 video of the 1967 version.  It must be out there somewhere.  I noticed in the TKD books at Lang Son Traders (MA store in Arlington, Tx) they don't have this form anymore either, though I haven't come close to looking at all of the TKD books available elsewhere.

I hope this form doesn't get lost.  I only know of two instructors in my area still teaching it, myself and Roy Kurban.  There must be more.

R. McLain


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## terryl965 (Feb 17, 2007)

rmclain said:


> I wish I knew of a video. I did a search on youtube.com this morning and found 4 pages of the 1974 version of Koryo, but not 1 video of the 1967 version. It must be out there somewhere. I noticed in the TKD books at Lang Son Traders (MA store in Arlington, Tx) they don't have this form anymore either, though I haven't come close to looking at all of the TKD books available elsewhere.
> 
> I hope this form doesn't get lost. I only know of two instructors in my area still teaching it, myself and Roy Kurban. There must be more.
> 
> R. McLain


 

Master McLain we do the older version GM Kurban tought it to me and my family while we was part of his Texas Karate League, it is called Koryo #2 by alot of instructor, I know Master combe has a video of it from GM Suk Lee out in California I will try and e-mail him to see if he can download it to me.
Have a wonderful day


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## Miles (Feb 17, 2007)

Cool, I'd love to see it.

BTW, when I was just starting out in TKD, my hero was Roy Kurban.  He was prominently portrayed in Official Karate magazine with his favorite combination.  I later learned his instructor, GM Won Chik Park,  had a school in Detroit at one time.  Another one of GM Park's students was Richard Plowden who is a super nice guy.  Master Plowden was a point champion for many years.

Miles


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## Laurentkd (Feb 17, 2007)

rmclain said:


> I wish I knew of a video. I did a search on youtube.com this morning and found 4 pages of the 1974 version of Koryo, but not 1 video of the 1967 version. It must be out there somewhere. I noticed in the TKD books at Lang Son Traders (MA store in Arlington, Tx) they don't have this form anymore either, though I haven't come close to looking at all of the TKD books available elsewhere.
> 
> I hope this form doesn't get lost. I only know of two instructors in my area still teaching it, myself and Roy Kurban. There must be more.
> 
> R. McLain


 
Mr. McLain,
Why not put a video up of yourself doing it??


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## Laurentkd (Feb 17, 2007)

terryl965 said:


> Master McLain we do the older version GM Kurban tought it to me and my family while we was part of his Texas Karate League, it is called Koryo #2 by alot of instructor, I know Master combe has a video of it from GM Suk Lee out in California I will try and e-mail him to see if he can download it to me.
> Have a wonderful day


 
That would be wonderful sir!


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## rmclain (Jul 11, 2007)

terryl965 said:


> Master McLain we do the older version GM Kurban tought it to me and my family while we was part of his Texas Karate League, it is called Koryo #2 by alot of instructor, I know Master combe has a video of it from GM Suk Lee out in California I will try and e-mail him to see if he can download it to me.
> Have a wonderful day


 
I think Grandmaster Kurban learned the 1967 version of Koryo from my instructor, Grandmaster Kim Pyung-soo.  He was one of the only Koreans that knew those in the US in the late 1960's.  

http://www.kimsookarate.com/gallery-first30/firstclinic.html

R. McLain


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## IcemanSK (Jul 11, 2007)

Surely there is someone who knows the 1st version who would be willing to video it & put it on youtube?


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## Laurentkd (Jul 21, 2007)

Hello all!!!
Jumping back in now that I have internet at home, and I thought I would bump this thread, hoping someone will give us the 1st version of Koryo.
please and thanks!


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## rmclain (Jul 21, 2007)

Laurentkd said:


> Hello all!!!
> Jumping back in now that I have internet at home, and I thought I would bump this thread, hoping someone will give us the 1st version of Koryo.
> please and thanks!


 

I e-mailed with Grandmaster Kim Pyung-soo about the 1967 Koryo.  Apparently, many instructors (including Master Jhoon Rhee) used to send their Black Belts to learn these from him in clinics in the late 1960's.

Grandmaster Kim hasn't taught any clinics to outside schools since then.  He seems open to the idea of doing this again if there is enough interest.

R. McLain


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## Laurentkd (Jul 22, 2007)

rmclain said:


> I e-mailed with Grandmaster Kim Pyung-soo about the 1967 Koryo. Apparently, many instructors (including Master Jhoon Rhee) used to send their Black Belts to learn these from him in clinics in the late 1960's.
> 
> Grandmaster Kim hasn't taught any clinics to outside schools since then. He seems open to the idea of doing this again if there is enough interest.
> 
> R. McLain


 
That would be cool sir! Please let us know any details you have, I would love to try to swing something like that.


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