# Earliest Western manual w/ JuJitsu



## lklawson (Nov 7, 2008)

Just a bit of trivia, really.

So far the earliest Western culture manual I've come across which attempts to teach anything at all about Japanese methods of grappling would be the one I just repubed ("Boxing and Wrestling by Ed James").

It's dated 1878 and contains a very small section attempting to transmit some fundamentals. But he gets it all wrong. Very messed up. I doubt he (or his ghost writer, whichever it is, I can't tell) ever trained in Japanese arts. He titles his section the "Japanese Throw" and then goes on to describe what seems to be a mash-up of Sumo and body-conditioning techinques.



> JAPANESE THROW.
> 
> IT is common for the Japanese who desire to become very
> expert to get their companions to bend back their limbs in
> ...


He does include an illustration of a "Japanese" techique which appears to be Oshi Taoshi. 






Note, however, that Oshi Taoshi was not unknown to the West; it appears in Petter's "Wrestling" and other sources, wasn't common as a sporting technique.










Still, it's a fascinating slice of history and, at 1878, appears to be the earliest Western manual attempting to teach "Japanese" grappling.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## hafoc (Dec 27, 2008)

lklawson said:


> Just a bit of trivia, really.
> 
> So far the earliest Western culture manual I've come across which attempts to teach anything at all about Japanese methods of grappling would be the one I just repubed ("Boxing and Wrestling by Ed James").
> 
> ...


 
Petter is a good source. However, our friend might also like to know that most techniques found in koryu jujutsu was also known in Medieval European wrestling systems. See http://www.the-exiles.org.uk/fioreproject/default.asp, especially the manuals under the links "PD Representation" (in the wrestling and dagger combat sections). These manuals were created in Italy in 1409.

Another good source for medieval wrestling is Max Rector's translation of Hans Talhoffer's 1467 manual, which is currently published under the title "Medieval Combat." Yet another good source is the translation of the Codex Wallerstein available from Paladin. 

A modern interpretation of some of these texts is available here:
http://www.paladin-press.com/product/791/47. It's a book about dagger combat, but the underlying techniques derive from medieval wrestling, which is very jujutsu-like.

It's really cool to see that the medieval and Renaissance Europeans had the same close combat material as the Japanese and a shame that much of that knowledge was lost.


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## jks9199 (Dec 27, 2008)

hafoc said:


> Petter is a good source. However, our friend might also like to know that most techniques found in koryu jujutsu was also known in Medieval European wrestling systems. See http://www.the-exiles.org.uk/fioreproject/default.asp, especially the manuals under the links "PD Representation" (in the wrestling and dagger combat sections). These manuals were created in Italy in 1409.
> 
> Another good source for medieval wrestling is Max Rector's translation of Hans Talhoffer's 1467 manual, which is currently published under the title "Medieval Combat." Yet another good source is the translation of the Codex Wallerstein available from Paladin.
> 
> ...


It always surprises me when people are shocked and amazed that many of the same techniques for fighting were found in different cultures or parts of the world.

The human body is a pretty standardized design.  In answer to a particular question of combat, the answers are going to be from a pretty common set.  Sometimes there'll be a more efficient choice, or that the choice will be dictated by beliefs... but there simply aren't but so many ways to move.

That said -- it is kind of cool to see that the Japanese methods were noted so early!


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## lklawson (Dec 30, 2008)

hafoc said:


> Petter is a good source. However, our friend might also like to know that most techniques found in koryu jujutsu was also known in Medieval European wrestling systems. See http://www.the-exiles.org.uk/fioreproject/default.asp, especially the manuals under the links "PD Representation" (in the wrestling and dagger combat sections). These manuals were created in Italy in 1409.
> 
> Another good source for medieval wrestling is Max Rector's translation of Hans Talhoffer's 1467 manual, which is currently published under the title "Medieval Combat." Yet another good source is the translation of the Codex Wallerstein available from Paladin.


Absolutely true.  However, Petter was what I had to hand, already electronic.  I would have had to scan the relevant parts of Rector's fine translation and I don't think I've got *any* Pisani-Dossi, much less at hand.  

Well, not *entirely* true.  There are a few relevant scans from Rector's Talhoffer in my article on 'Hawk & Longknife: 
http://cbd.atspace.com/articles/degenhawk/hawk_and_rondell.html 
(Sample Technique #2)

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
http://cbd.atspace.com/articles/degenhawk/hawk_and_rondell.html


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## lklawson (Jul 14, 2009)

Following along the theme of the last post I have a sampling from Marozzo:





Oshi Taoshi 1





Oshi Taoshi 2





Tomo Nage

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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