# Crab Kung Fu



## Zeno

Anyone know anything about it really? I've done some searching online, and I know it's a dead art now, but does anyone know anything really in depth about it? It's always interested me.


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## Xue Sheng

I know nothing about it but in CMA if it is dead there is a reason. Either it was ineffective or the last viable master decided no one was worthy to learn it and it died with him, or he was killed before he could pass it on.


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## tshadowchaser

I have never heard of it in any of the Chinese systems but I believe I once heard of it when someone was referring to the way some of the Ninjutsu practitioners moved.  Perhaps this question should be asked of them also 

Of course I could be completely incorrect on this


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## clfsean

tshadowchaser said:


> I have never heard of it in any of the Chinese systems but I believe I once heard of it when someone was referring to the way some of the Ninjutsu practitioners moved. Perhaps this question should be asked of them also
> 
> Of course I could be completely incorrect on this


 
Not so much with the taijutsu peeps. Lots is lumped on them & nobody denies it.

Crab kung fu... served best with garlic rolls & butter sauce after beating the crab into submission. 

Seriously... ask anybody from the PRC funded Shaolin world & you'll get not only a positive answer but a brief demo of whatever animal you ask about. I'd go ask about the Golden Marmoset or the Black Yak if I were you & see what you get. 

XS was right in his assertation/presumption ... if it was before, it's dead now.


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## Zeno

I'd love to be able to go and find out more about it. I can't imagine getting pinched by a master of crab kung fu. Phew.

I first found out about it through Mortal Kombat. In Deadly Alliance, Reptile had two martial arts that he could use...Hung Gar and Crab Kung Fu.

I loved the look, and decided to research it, and discovered either through the game's information, or the internet, that it was a dead art.

I also found a bit from Shaolin.com...

"Crab is now a dead system of kung fu, the remnants of which were incorporated into eagle, hong tiger and white eyebrow. Practitioners fought from a low, crouching scissors stance and used great wrist and forearm strength to attack nerves or cut off circulation with the crab pincer."

It sounds effective enough. I just wish I knew how/why it died and divided. I've yet to find any information on it.


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## CuongNhuka

I think I've found some clips of it on youtube. You could try looking for it there.


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## jks9199

Zeno said:


> I'd love to be able to go and find out more about it. I can't imagine getting pinched by a master of crab kung fu. Phew.
> 
> I first found out about it through Mortal Kombat. In Deadly Alliance, Reptile had two martial arts that he could use...Hung Gar and Crab Kung Fu.
> 
> I loved the look, and decided to research it, and discovered either through the game's information, or the internet, that it was a dead art.
> 
> I also found a bit from Shaolin.com...
> 
> "Crab is now a dead system of kung fu, the remnants of which were incorporated into eagle, hong tiger and white eyebrow. Practitioners fought from a low, crouching scissors stance and used great wrist and forearm strength to attack nerves or cut off circulation with the crab pincer."
> 
> It sounds effective enough. I just wish I knew how/why it died and divided. I've yet to find any information on it.


With an "origin" coming from a video game character, I'd be skeptical.  

Generally, animal styles come about in a couple of ways.  One is that someone observes the fighting of the animal, and copies movements and tactics.  (Think of the legends behind some of the crane styles or mantis styles.)  Another is that a group finds something about that animal worthy of emulating; often, this is a spirit or a characteristic that has been anthropomorphised onto the animal.  (Dragon styles are one example.)  Occasionally, someone will gather techniques using an animal as an inspiration or guiding principle to describe it -- though you could argue that this is really a blend of the two methods.  And sometimes someone has a personal fighting style that reminds people of an animal so strongly that it gets described as that -- and then they've taught that style to others.

So... looking at "crab style" -- it's hard to see many of these leading to a crab style.  Crabs aren't known for the variety of their defensive/offensive tactics, nor does it seem really likely to me that someone would have spent hours observing a crab to see how they fight.  Nor is a crab generally considered to have a lot of redeeming characteristics...  I'm skeptical that there ever really was much of a crab system... Maybe a few particular tactics, like a "crab claw pinch", maybe even a short "crab set"... but not a real crab system.

Of course... I could be dead wrong!


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## Zeno

jks9199 said:
			
		

> With an "origin" coming from a video game character, I'd be skeptical.



I was skeptical, which is why I did so much research on it. I knew Mortal Kombat incorporated a lot of martial arts styles into the game, and did fairly well at portraying those that I knew enough about.



			
				jks9199 said:
			
		

> So... looking at "crab style" -- it's hard to see many of these leading to a crab style. Crabs aren't known for the variety of their defensive/offensive tactics, nor does it seem really likely to me that someone would have spent hours observing a crab to see how they fight.



Crabs, however, are a creature with a rather memorable defense. A crab's pinch can range anywhere from a sharp, minor pain to an intense "there goes your finger" type of pain. Also, their walk could be a topic of interest. A style where one always keeps the body bladed to the side, making yourself easily fit into certain areas as well as harder to hit. From what I've read, the crab walk in crab kung fu was made to knock the person off balance or even break bones with movement of the legs.

Watching crabs actually fight is rather interesting as well, because they get themselves into locks and holds (to a sense) and grapple with their pincers. Just look on YouTube. I can totally see why someone may take interest in the fighting techniques of a crab. I mean, mantis developed into a highly successful style. It's not TOO much different than observing a crab.

According to some sources, crab was indeed a system. I for one would love to see it's revival.


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## punisher73

jks9199 said:


> With an "origin" coming from a video game character, I'd be skeptical.
> 
> Generally, animal styles come about in a couple of ways. One is that someone observes the fighting of the animal, and copies movements and tactics. (Think of the legends behind some of the crane styles or mantis styles.) Another is that a group finds something about that animal worthy of emulating; often, this is a spirit or a characteristic that has been anthropomorphised onto the animal. (Dragon styles are one example.) Occasionally, someone will gather techniques using an animal as an inspiration or guiding principle to describe it -- though you could argue that this is really a blend of the two methods. And sometimes someone has a personal fighting style that reminds people of an animal so strongly that it gets described as that -- and then they've taught that style to others.
> 
> So... looking at "crab style" -- it's hard to see many of these leading to a crab style. Crabs aren't known for the variety of their defensive/offensive tactics, nor does it seem really likely to me that someone would have spent hours observing a crab to see how they fight. Nor is a crab generally considered to have a lot of redeeming characteristics... I'm skeptical that there ever really was much of a crab system... Maybe a few particular tactics, like a "crab claw pinch", maybe even a short "crab set"... but not a real crab system.
> 
> Of course... I could be dead wrong!


 
I wish I could remember it, but there was an old kung fu movie where the character "created" a crab style.  They would show images of the crab moving around or grabbing something with it's claw and then you would see the main character practicing the moves to emmulate the crab.

I agree though, not much to create a whole style from though.


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## HG1

A Shaw Brothers classic. Enjoy!


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## Zeno

HG1 said:
			
		

> A Shaw Brothers classic. Enjoy!



Yep! That's the one in Mortal Kombat. The one Reptile uses. Noticed it almost immediately. Looks effective enough, no? Of course, they can make anything look effective in a movie.


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## JadecloudAlchemist

Yoko aruki:





 
Hoko no kamae:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/10011801@N08/2433792508/


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## bowser666

I agree with a previous statement , that if it comes from Mortal Kombat , I would doubt the authenticity. I did find a funny Animated Crab KungFu video on YouTube though. Pretty amusing.


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## ChukaSifu2

I know of certain attacks and hand training exercises used from the Crab system. As someone has mentioned these were incorporated into a Bak Mei system which we use in our SPM system.


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## Zeno

bowser666 said:
			
		

> I agree with a previous statement , that if it comes from Mortal Kombat , I would doubt the authenticity.



If you've played any of the more recent MK games, you realize that they have martial artists performing the attacks for each individual style (it's in the bonus sections of the game). Each style they placed into the game is an actual art. I couldn't see them tossing in one that didn't exist. There's enough evidence to show that Crab Kung Fu was once a true form, and now it's been dissolved and given to other forms. I just want to know why.


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## 7starmarc

Zeno said:


> Watching crabs actually fight is rather interesting as well, because they get themselves into locks and holds (to a sense) and grapple with their pincers. Just look on YouTube. I can totally see why someone may take interest in the fighting techniques of a crab. I mean, mantis developed into a highly successful style. It's not TOO much different than observing a crab.



I must admit, I've never sat and watched a crab fight, on the other hand, I'm not sure that crabs are known for their fighting skills. On the contrary, the mantis is known as a particularly vicious and effective combatant. To my knowledge, it is one of the only insects which has been recorded to hunt and kill small birds, snakes, rodents, and other insects larger than itself.


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## Kreth

Am I the only one that thinks of the Crab People episode of South Park every time this thread pops up? :idunno:
Sorry, return to your regular topic...


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## Zeno

7starmarc said:
			
		

> I must admit, I've never sat and watched a crab fight



Well, it seems SOMEONE has.


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## Nolerama

Crabs are tasty and good with butter.

I think fighting like your dinner is wrong.

Come on! They made this up for a video game!

Now someone's gonna pop up and claim he teaches Crab Kung Fu.


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## Zeno

Nolerama said:
			
		

> Crabs are tasty and good with butter.
> 
> I think fighting like your dinner is wrong.



You know there's at least one person out there who has eaten every single animal that represents the kung fu styles. Freaky people. 



			
				Nolerama said:
			
		

> Come on! They made this up for a video game!



A number of people have asked about it on AllExperts.com
For example...
http://en.allexperts.com/q/Kung-Fu-2254/Crab-Style-Kung-Fu.htm

Shaolin.com acknowledges it...
http://www.shaolin.com/crab_kungfu.aspx

Midway Games, the makers of MK give information on it being a deceased form.

There's enough pointing to its existence to keep anyone from knowing for a fact that it was made up. Why would Midway take the efforts to put over a dozen actual styles into the game accurately, while adding bonus content with information on each individual style, and just throw in a fake one they made up themselves and lie about it? Doesn't add up.

I can totally see why someone would be interested in how crabs fight and apply their pinch. We know they hurt...a lot. They're always ready to defend themselves. When you get close enough to one, they even take a stance, lifting their pincers and opening them, while getting ready to move.






Maybe I'm the only one that can see someone trying to form a style based on a crab's movements and defensive nature.


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## Nolerama

Zeno said:


> You know there's at least one person out there who has eaten every single animal that represents the kung fu styles. Freaky people.
> 
> 
> 
> A number of people have asked about it on AllExperts.com
> For example...
> http://en.allexperts.com/q/Kung-Fu-2254/Crab-Style-Kung-Fu.htm
> 
> Shaolin.com acknowledges it...
> http://www.shaolin.com/crab_kungfu.aspx
> 
> Midway Games, the makers of MK give information on it being a deceased form.
> 
> There's enough pointing to its existence to keep anyone from knowing for a fact that it was made up. Why would Midway take the efforts to put over a dozen actual styles into the game accurately, while adding bonus content with information on each individual style, and just throw in a fake one they made up themselves and lie about it? Doesn't add up.
> 
> I can totally see why someone would be interested in how crabs fight and apply their pinch. We know they hurt...a lot. They're always ready to defend themselves. When you get close enough to one, they even take a stance, lifting their pincers and opening them, while getting ready to move.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe I'm the only one that can see someone trying to form a style based on a crab's movements and defensive nature.



Okay... jibes at diet aside... 

Sorry, but the facts look shaky. And a video game is fiction. And the Youtube flick showed that crabs, while feisty, can get stepped on by a large foot.

This is what I'm getting from this discussion:

*A: "Is there a crab kung fu style?"

B: "Um... no... But I did hear once a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away that there might have been a crab style... But even then it was a dead art."

A: "Well, that stinks. I saw crab style in a video game..."

B: "Oh! CRAB STYLE!... I remember NOW! It's actually a part of MY style. There's like 200 moves and awesomeness ensues with that style. Why didn't you SAY it was CRAB STYLE!?"

A: "But you just said it was a dead art...."

B: "It's been a long day, kid... Let me teach you the ways of the crab."

A: "Oh BOY! You BETCHA!"

B: "That'll be eleventy-billion dollars."

A: "SWEET! Cash or check?"

B: "Cash... sweet, green cash... (hehehehe)"

* 
Maybe I'm wrong, but in my insincerity about the Quest to find the Art That Is Crab, there is some truth.

If you look long enough and hard enough, you will find what you're looking for. In this case, probably in the form of a con artist.

Tell you what: Why don't you study the crab, and make your own style? If there are people that exist that know Crab, they'll come out of the woodwork to meet you. Maybe Sanchez will award you with a shrimp chip.

However, if you do take my advice, please don't pick fights with Lobster-style fighters. Those guys (and gals) fight till they're burger.


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## Xue Sheng

At this point I am inclined to beleive that crab kung fu is as real as Kaio-ken.


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## Zeno

Nolerama said:
			
		

> And the Youtube flick showed that crabs, while feisty, can get stepped on by a large foot.



As can a praying mantis. As can a snake. Humans can pretty much dominate any of the kung fu animals in a number of ways. Should we question their authenticity based solely on the fact that we're bigger than them? There isn't a single animal on this earth that we can't destroy irreverisibly.

And sure, video games are fiction, but the styles they incorporated into the games are NOT. And no, they didn't make this style up for a video game. Someone posted this video earlier on...






This apparently was released in 1978. Looks to be about right. MK: DA, which features Crab Kung Fu as a style (about identical to what is shown in that video), was released in 2002. Looks like someone beat the Doc to the Flux-Capacitor.



			
				Nolerama said:
			
		

> This is what I'm getting from this discussion:
> 
> A: "Is there a crab kung fu style?"
> 
> B: "Um... no... But I did hear once a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away that there might have been a crab style... But even then it was a dead art."
> 
> A: "Well, that stinks. I saw crab style in a video game..."
> 
> B: "Oh! CRAB STYLE!... I remember NOW! It's actually a part of MY style. There's like 200 moves and awesomeness ensues with that style. Why didn't you SAY it was CRAB STYLE!?"
> 
> A: "But you just said it was a dead art...."
> 
> B: "It's been a long day, kid... Let me teach you the ways of the crab."
> 
> A: "Oh BOY! You BETCHA!"
> 
> B: "That'll be eleventy-billion dollars."
> 
> A: "SWEET! Cash or check?"
> 
> B: "Cash... sweet, green cash... (hehehehe)"



I'm sorry, but I don't see how that has any resemblance to what we're discussing here. Especially towards the end there.



			
				Nolerama said:
			
		

> Tell you what: Why don't you study the crab, and make your own style? If there are people that exist that know Crab, they'll come out of the woodwork to meet you. Maybe Sanchez will award you with a shrimp chip.



We could only hope.


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## Nolerama

Zeno said:


> As can a praying mantis. As can a snake. Humans can pretty much dominate any of the kung fu animals in a number of ways. Should we question their authenticity based solely on the fact that we're bigger than them? There isn't a single animal on this earth that we can't destroy irreverisibly.
> 
> And sure, video games are fiction, but the styles they incorporated into the games are NOT. And no, they didn't make this style up for a video game. Someone posted this video earlier on...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This apparently was released in 1978. Looks to be about right. MK: DA, which features Crab Kung Fu as a style (about identical to what is shown in that video), was released in 2002. Looks like someone beat the Doc to the Flux-Capacitor.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sorry, but I don't see how that has any resemblance to what we're discussing here. Especially towards the end there.
> 
> 
> 
> We could only hope.



*sigh* I joked on the black crab vid. I'm sorry if it offended you in that way.

I guess I get heated when I think about martial artists getting conned by phonies. We've all seen variations of the "Rex Kwon Do" business model, but then there are the true fakers out there, who've operated completely on hearsay and through VERY questionable "sources." Then they take the gullible out for a ride.

I hope you now get the dialog I've written in the previous post, and understand that there are dangers in terms of business practice and "authenticity." I hate saying this, but BE AN INFORMED CONSUMER. There are lots of folks out there ready to make a quick buck.

And my mockery of this Mortal Kombat style exists only to show that there is some hilarity in the pursuit of this "Higher Power" that is Crab Style where the real power is in you to make something out of nothing and ultimately *MAKING IT WORK*, and *WORK WELL*.

Study crabs. Lean their movements. If they're applicable to the bipeds most of us are, then see how functional they are when you test metal to metal (or in this case carapace to carapace/scale/feather/fur/fist/etc.).

Pinch someone in a real fight and see if it works. Or work on it if it doesn't.

I'm not knocking you or a potential way of fighting. I am knocking the way you are going about searching for a style you found on a video game (Kung Fu flicks and hearsay aside), and to a point, Youtube vids should be regarded with a good amount of skepticism until you are able to pull off those techniques yourself.

Isn't it logical to be aware of your surroundings (as a martial artist or self defense-savvy individual), including the information around you?


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## Steel Tiger

HG1 said:


> A Shaw Brothers classic. Enjoy!


 
Shaolin Challenges Ninja.  What a movie!  Gordon Liu at his best.

I think, though, that the Crab style in the movie is pure cinema invention.  Could it be that the guys who designed Mortal Kombat were inspired by a classic Shaw Brothers film rather than a real, living style?  What's more the ninja guy lost, so you'd be better off with Crane style.

If there ever was a real Crab style it is as XS pointed out.  

The thing is an animal style does not have to look or move like the animal it is named for.  Some are quite blatant, some are not.  Eagle, for instance, is not a very bird looking style.  The name derives from an inspiration for a gripping technique.  What about Dragon?  We have no idea how a Dragon would move so someone came up with something inspired by the concept of a Dragon.  For that matter, what about Dog boxing?  If anything looked less like a dog then I have yet to see it.  

I can completely understand someone looking at a crab and being inspired to develop a powerful gripping method, but I seriously doubt anyone would emulate crab walking.

You know there could be some retconning going on here.


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## Xue Sheng

OK I will admit it... I have been hiding the truth.... I did I really see crab kung fu (done by an actually crab) once in a friend's house and it was not very effective at all

My friend and his wife were from Guangzhou and they had purchased some live crab for dinner. One of the crabs escaped and ended up in a drawer holding on to a spatula for a weapon. However chop stick kung fu proved to be superior and a quick grab and a flip easily defeated crab fu and cleaver fu ended the match rather quickly  

True story


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## Archangel M

I think it has moves that mimic furiously scratching at ones crotch.

I saw a Mortal Kombat character shoot lightning bolts out of his eyes too. Where can I learn that?


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## Zeno

Nolerama said:
			
		

> I guess I get heated when I think about martial artists getting conned by phonies. We've all seen variations of the "Rex Kwon Do" business model, but then there are the true fakers out there, who've operated completely on hearsay and through VERY questionable "sources." Then they take the gullible out for a ride.



The fact of the matter here is that I posted this to hopefully find more information on Crab Kung Fu. While no one has submitted anything that could be considered evidence of it being a true system, no one has debunked its existence either. I ask Kung Fu wise members if they happen to know anything about it, and what mostly comes up are people saying Crab Kung Fu must be fake. Why? Well...uh...because crabs taste good and aren't good fighters. Compared to who? Humans, apparently. But then again, I could squash a praying mantis without a single thought. Oh well.

I wanted more information on the style known as Crab Kung Fu. If Shaolin.com mentions it, I doubt I'm the only one out there thinking that it COULD have existed, no matter how short lived it may have been. I can't say I know for a fact, because I don't. I'm not being conned by anyone, and I surely don't consider myself gullible. I just figured when I played the game that Crab was real, because all the others were. I didn't just believe it totally there...I did some research. Research told me it was a dead style...I come here seeking someone who may know something about it...but that's not how it turns out. I've received more recipes on how to eat crab than actual evidence proving either side's point.

And I'd like to be the first to say Rex Kwon Do MUST be effective. Have you seen that guy's pants? Serious business, that.



			
				Nolerama said:
			
		

> There are lots of folks out there ready to make a quick buck.



There certainly are. I'll agree completely there. That's why I've been so choosy with my martial arts experience.



			
				Nolerama said:
			
		

> the real power is in you to make something out of nothing and ultimately MAKING IT WORK, and WORK WELL.



People have been doing that for a long time. Some are more successful at it than others. But agreed.



			
				Nolerama said:
			
		

> I am knocking the way you are going about searching for a style you found on a video game



I wouldn't have searched for it, had the game not included around a dozen or so other REAL styles. I can't stress this point enough. I had never heard of crab kung fu, so I did a little net surfing to see if I could find more. What I found is that it was a deceased style. Hmmm...maybe someone at one of the internet's largest martial arts message boards would know something about it. Whoops. My mistake.



			
				Nolerama said:
			
		

> Isn't it logical to be aware of your surroundings (as a martial artist or self defense-savvy individual), including the information around you?



Yes. Isn't it logical, as a martial artist or self defense-savvy individual, to gather said information around you in the most truthful form possible?

Sorry, but the fact that crabs are served best with butter isn't proving your point, and surely isn't helping anyone on their quest for knowledge. We all know crabs are great with butter. Want to know another fun fact? So is lobster.



			
				Steel Tiger said:
			
		

> I think, though, that the Crab style in the movie is pure cinema invention. Could it be that the guys who designed Mortal Kombat were inspired by a classic Shaw Brothers film rather than a real, living style?



Very well could be. I can totally see that. What I can't see is how a classic Shaw Brothers film would've completely fooled Shaolin.com so badly. Maybe Shaolin.com is a fraud. I've requested more information from them, actually. We'll see how it turns out.



			
				Steel Tiger said:
			
		

> I can completely understand someone looking at a crab and being inspired to develop a powerful gripping method



That's how I see it. Strengthen the index and thumb enough over time, and you could have yourself a very "Kung Fu" grip, able to cut off circulation or tweak the nerves. Imagine strengthening all the fingers to that point and using them all as a pincer. That would suck to be victimized by that.



			
				Steel Tiger said:
			
		

> but I seriously doubt anyone would emulate crab walking.



You just can't be too sure. Could have its benefits. I bet enough people seriously doubt standing on one foot in a fight is effective. But it sure can be, can't it?



			
				Steel Tiger said:
			
		

> You know there could be some retconning going on here.



Definitely.

Xue Sheng, thank you for your honesty. I'm going to record your account in my notebook. If you can remember any detailed moves the crab may have performed, it would help me greatly. I'm hoping to develop/revive Crab Kung Fu myself.



			
				Archangel M said:
			
		

> I saw a Mortal Kombat character shoot lightning bolts out of his eyes too. Where can I learn that?



I'm not too sure, but I know there are places you can learn the styles they put into the game, such as Kenpo, Karate, TKD, Muay Thai, Mizong, Jeet Kune Do, Wing Chun, Judo, Mantis, Snake, Crane,  Escrima, Tang Soo Do, Jujutsu, Nanquan, Hung Gar, Hapkido, Shotokan, Dragon, Ninjutsu, Sambo, San Shou, Tai Chi, Shuai Jiao, Sumo, Wrestling, Tong Bei Quan, and more.


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## Formosa Neijia

Zeno said:


> Anyone know anything about it really? I've done some searching online, and I know it's a dead art now, but does anyone know anything really in depth about it? It's always interested me.



More garbage. When are people going to stop getting their information from stupid video games and get there butts on a training mat? 

Stop mentally masturbating about fantasy BS and try training for real for a change. Threads like this bring down the quality of the site.


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## Xue Sheng

Zeno said:


> Xue Sheng, thank you for your honesty. I'm going to record your account in my notebook. If you can remember any detailed moves the crab may have performed, it would help me greatly. I'm hoping to develop/revive Crab Kung Fu myself.


 
Climb out of the pot

Scuttle across the counter

Skillfully avoid falling into sink (that bit was rather impressive) 

Flip into an open drawer

Grab Spatula 

Oh and I forgot this before, grab a chop stick with the other claw

Get grabbed by chopsticks

Get lower and root and fend off first chopstick attack

At second chopstick attack grab one of the attacking chopsticks (Big Mistake) 

Get flipped out of drawer on to counter

And well the rest gets rather nasty; Cleaver Fu is rather unforgiving and rarely gives second chances


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## Zeno

Formosa Neijia said:
			
		

> Stop mentally masturbating about fantasy BS and try training for real for a change. Threads like this bring down the quality of the site.



You mean...discussions? No, I believe, in my experience of moderating forums, that it's posts like THAT which bring down the quality of a site.



			
				Xue Sheng said:
			
		

> Climb out of the pot
> 
> Scuttle across the counter
> 
> Skillfully avoid falling into sink (that bit was rather impressive)
> 
> Flip into an open drawer
> 
> Grab Spatula
> 
> Oh and I forgot this before, grab a chop stick with the other claw
> 
> Get grabbed by chopsticks
> 
> Get lower and root and fend off first chopstick attack
> 
> At second chopstick attack grab one of the attacking chopsticks (Big Mistake)
> 
> Get flipped out of drawer on to counter
> 
> And well the rest gets rather nasty; Cleaver Fu is rather unforgiving and rarely gives second chances



Your victory is an inspiration to us all. There is no doubt.


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## Xue Sheng

Zeno said:


> Your victory is an inspiration to us all. There is no doubt.


 
It was not my victory I was a mere observer(and dinner guest) it was my friend's Wife's victory... but then she was an ex member of the Chinese opera from Guangzhou so she did have some skills


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## Zeno

Xue Sheng said:
			
		

> It was not my victory I was a mere observer(and dinner guest) it was my friend's Wife's victory... but then she was an ex member of the Chinese opera from Guangzhou so she did have some skills



How fortunate simply to be an observer. I'd say she must have had previous training of some sort, crabs being severely volatile.

Sometimes humor is just the thing to set things straight.


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## LanJie

As far I have been able to find through my print sources and Internet searches there is no available information on a Crab Kung Fu Style.

In my early training in Shaolin Kenpo we used a twisting grabbing strike to the throat that resembles the Northern Eagle Claw strike. It was called a Crab Strike.

I thought that it was possible that the traditional Hawaiian martial art called Lua had some Crab inspired movements but I did not find any.
Lua 
http://www.olohe.com/

This is the closest reference I could come to that has a technique that involves sea creatures.

In the Kaihewalu Lua system, there are many empty and openhanded techniques. Below is a list of just a few of the many openhanded weapon techniques based on both land and sea creatures, and are also used while in motion, as animal (Holoholona) forms:

Heel / Palm of the Hand = Pea (Bear)
*Eight Fingers (reversed) = He'e (Squid)*
Fingers (claw) = Põpoki (Cat)
*Wrist Bone = Mahimahi (Dolphin)*
Forearm = 'Io (Hawk)
Both Arms Wrapped with Hands Together = Pulelehua (Butterfly)
Knee, Shin Bone, Ankle, Ball or Heel of Foot = Pua'a (Pig)
http://www.olohe.com/history.html

I have seen in contemporary Wushu monks perform a Wushu set based on the Scorpion.
http://www.kungfu-taichi.com/servlet/kungfoo/Action/Resource/ResourceKey/1386

I am not saying that Crab Kung Fu does not exist but that I cannot find any documentation on the subject.

For a long time a read rumors on the Internet of a Southern Eagle Claw style of Kung fu and I thought that the stories were unlikely. Then I found I good article and video performances on the style.

Golden Eagle Claw Information
http://www.chinesemartialarts.eu/Golden_Eagle_Style_Kungfu.html

Golden Eagle Claw Video




 

There is a small amount of evidence of a rare style of kung fu called fish fist or fist gate fist. It is supposed to be based on the movements that fishermen used in casting out their nets.

FISH STYLE: YUMENQUAN OR LIUJIAYI. Legend has it, that in Hubei Province there were six Wushu companions that were inspired by observing swimming fish and fishermen casting their nets. This style has many similar characteristics to Taijiquan (Shou 480).
"This style is also known as Fish Gate Fist . This a popular style of long fist in Hubei province. According to one legend, six warriors escaped the fall o the Ming dynasty to hide out in a river gorge in Huebei. There they observed the constant interaction of fish and fishermen, especially the way in which fishermen cast their nets. They incorporated these movements into a fighting style, and since there were six warriors, this style is also known as yue Men Liu Jia Li (fish gate six men art). (p.44)

Shou-Yu, Liang, and Wu Wen-Ching Kung Fu Elements Wushu Training
and Martial Arts Application Manual.
Rhode Island: The Way of the Dragon Publishing, 2001. (P. 480)

Burr, Martha, and Gene Ching, From Shaolin Temple to Bruce Lee. 
Kung Fu Wushu~Qigong. (January 2001). (p.44)


_The evidence for some of these rare styles is hard to find._

Crab Kung Fu may exist but I can not find it yet.

Good Luck.
Regards,
Steve


----------



## Zeno

Steve, thank you for that post. I appreciate your efforts to find information on the subject. 

I'm thinking that if it did exist, it was incredibly short lived. But it's a sure thing that some "crab-like" attacks have been integrated into certain arts. Maybe it began with an art that never got a chance to fully evolve?

I'll keep my search going as well.


----------



## Steel Tiger

I've just had a good long poke around at Shaolin.com and all I can come up with is be careful of the information posted there.  They seem more interested in ranking styles than anything else.  It is a teach by internet thing and I don't think that's so good.


Having said that, lets get back to Crab gongfu.  I am surprised that Lua has nothing crabby in it.  If any art was going to then it would have been that one.  Maybe the crab just wasn't cool enough.

A Crab style?  Sure why not, afterall there are duck, scorpion, and even toad styles.  However, what we are seeing in Shaolin Challenges Ninja or Mortal Kombat is a fiction.  It is not effective in so many way its frightening.  Whatever Crab style may have looked like, I feel confident that it didn't look like that.

If you really want to find something of the Crab style that seems to have existed and died out I would suggest going to those arts that lay claim to the legacy - one of the many schools of Eagle, or Hung Gar, or White Eyebrow, preferably all three.  It is then a case of building for yourself because it looks like there are no written materials on the style anymore, if there ever were any.


----------



## Zeno

Steel Tiger said:
			
		

> If you really want to find something of the Crab style that seems to have existed and died out I would suggest going to those arts that lay claim to the legacy - one of the many schools of Eagle, or Hung Gar, or White Eyebrow, preferably all three.



What I'm currently doing is looking for numerous sources to request information from. I'll do my best to contact some form of authority for those styles. Hopefully I get something back.

For those who underestimate crabs...why not take a look at this?






Cue the blood-curdling shriek.


----------



## Nebuchadnezzar

Zeno said:


> ...Midway Games, the makers of MK give information on it being a deceased form.
> 
> There's enough pointing to its existence to keep anyone from knowing for a fact that it was made up. Why would Midway take the efforts to put over a dozen actual styles into the game accurately, while adding bonus content with information on each individual style, and just throw in a fake one they made up themselves and lie about it? Doesn't add up.....


 
Because it's a game, it's good marketing and again it's a GAME!  There are no Jedi and yet there is a fighting style for the Jedi that was created for the movies based on Kendo, and a little movie kung fu mixed into it for the movies that came after Return of the Jedi.

Fights are choreagraphed for movies ALL THE TIME.  Avatar has four styles that are noted, Fire Bending, Air Bending, Water Bending ad Earth Bending.  The styles don't exist but you can see them being performed by the characters.

Let's not forget the 80's movie "Gymkata".  Then again, I wish I could forget it.


----------



## Steel Tiger

Nebuchadnezzar said:


> Let's not forget the 80's movie "Gymkata". Then again, I wish I could forget it.


 
I was hoping no one would mention Gymkata.


----------



## Xue Sheng

Nebuchadnezzar said:


> Let's not forget the 80's movie "Gymkata". Then again, I wish I could forget it.


 
Oh no you didn't..... oh yes you did:disgust:.... Oh WHY did you have to bring that up.. now I won't sleep or eat for a week... :uhyeah:


----------



## Nebuchadnezzar

Wait a minute, you're using this site http://www.shaolin.com/Shaolin_training_info.aspx as your frame of reference to convince us that Crab Style was real?


----------



## Nebuchadnezzar

Xue Sheng said:


> Oh no you didn't..... oh yes you did:disgust:.... Oh WHY did you have to bring that up.. now I won't sleep or eat for a week... :uhyeah:


 
Heh, heh, heh.  Serves you right for showing off your inside advantage at having a wife who practices TCM! :lol:


----------



## Xue Sheng

Strange double post incident.....just move along...nothing to see here...


----------



## Xue Sheng

Nebuchadnezzar said:


> Heh, heh, heh. Serves you right for showing off your inside advantage at having a wife who practices TCM! :lol:


 
:lol:
Just for that I will go tell here how I feel and get *FREE* acupuncture to help me sleep and regain my appetite


----------



## Steel Tiger

Nebuchadnezzar said:


> Wait a minute, you're using this site http://www.shaolin.com/Shaolin_training_info.aspx as your frame of reference to convince us that Crab Style was real?


 
Just noticed that one huh?  Took me a while as well.


----------



## 7starmarc

Nebuchadnezzar said:


> Because it's a game, it's good marketing and again it's a GAME! There are no Jedi and yet there is a fighting style for the Jedi that was created for the movies based on Kendo, and a little movie kung fu mixed into it for the movies that came after Return of the Jedi.
> 
> Fights are choreagraphed for movies ALL THE TIME. Avatar has four styles that are noted, Fire Bending, Air Bending, Water Bending ad Earth Bending. The styles don't exist but you can see them being performed by the characters.
> 
> Let's not forget the 80's movie "Gymkata". Then again, I wish I could forget it.


 
Actually, the Avatar styles are all based on real kung fu styles:
Fire Bending - Northern Shaolin
Water Bending - Tai Chi
Air Bending - Bagua
Earth Bending - Hung Gar, although Toph has been noted to have characteristics of Soutehrn Mantis in her movements

There are some more die hard Avatar fans at my school who have picked out some forms and techniques which lend credence to these claims.


----------



## Zeno

Nebuchadnezzar said:
			
		

> Because it's a game, it's good marketing and again it's a GAME!



*sigh*

Allow me to stress this point...yet again. Am I typing in English? It looks like I am. This is like the freakin' Twilight Zone, I swear.

The MK game I am referring to, included, but was not limited to, the FOLLOWING REAL (AUTHENTIC) MARTIAL ARTS STYLES...

Kenpo, Karate, Tae Kwon Do, Muay Thai, Mizong, Jeet Kune Do, Wing Chun, Judo, Mantis, Snake, Crane, Escrima, Tang Soo Do, Jujutsu, Nanquan, Hung Gar, Hapkido, Shotokan, Dragon, Ninjutsu, Sambo, San Shou, Tai Chi, Shuai Jiao, Sumo, Wrestling, Tong Bei Quan, and more.

SO...the fact it is a GAME...ALL of these styles must be fake! I've been fooled! GASP! Apparently I'm not the only one! Geeze...MK fooled people so badly, MT has dedicated forums to most of these bogus styles! Woe to us all! We've been tricked!

I couldn't see WHY they would throw in ALL real martial arts styles, and then feel it necessary to throw in ONE that's completely fake. My interest was sparked by this Crab style, so I did a little digging. Apparently, I'm not the ONLY ONE who thought it could possibly have been a style. There IS information on it, and someone's even inquired about it here at MT back in 2002.

[sarcasm]How GULLIBLE of me.[/sarcasm]



			
				Nebuchadnezzar said:
			
		

> Wait a minute, you're using this site http://www.shaolin.com/Shaolin_training_info.aspx as your frame of reference to convince us that Crab Style was real?



Have you even decided to READ what's been going on so far in this thread? You should try it.

I'm not trying to convince ANYONE it's a style. So far, the only people trying to convince anyone of anything here are those trying to convince ME that it's never existed. Based off of what evidence? NONE of any substance.

I simply noted that Shaolin.com makes mention to Crab Kung Fu, as do a few other sources, so I'm not just taking everyone for a ride here. I'm not talking about frickin' Clam Kung Fu, people. I'm not pulling something out of my rear. There's enough reason to believe that this style could've existed. Anyone who claims it's BS has nothing of actual substance to provide to secure their claim.

I came here asking if anyone knew anything about it. That's it.

Sorry if I seem just a tad discourteous, but I came seeking information. Give me something to work with, people. The fact that crabs taste good and you can squish one beneath your foot doesn't debunk the fact it could've existed as a martial arts style, but that's what I've been given to deal with.


----------



## punisher73

Here are some clips of some crab kung fu, enjoy





 
http://www.visit4info.com/details.cfm?adid=17755&version=6#


----------



## Nebuchadnezzar

7starmarc said:


> Actually, the Avatar styles are all based on real kung fu styles:
> Fire Bending - Northern Shaolin
> Water Bending - Tai Chi
> Air Bending - Bagua
> Earth Bending - Hung Gar, although Toph has been noted to have characteristics of Soutehrn Mantis in her movements
> 
> There are some more die hard Avatar fans at my school who have picked out some forms and techniques which lend credence to these claims.


 
Based on is not the issue. The actual style IS the issue. :duh:


----------



## Nebuchadnezzar

Zeno said:


> *sigh*
> 
> Allow me to stress this point...yet again. Am I typing in English? It looks like I am. This is like the freakin' Twilight Zone, I swear.
> 
> The MK game I am referring to, included, but was not limited to, the FOLLOWING REAL (AUTHENTIC) MARTIAL ARTS STYLES...
> 
> Kenpo, Karate, Tae Kwon Do, Muay Thai, Mizong, Jeet Kune Do, Wing Chun, Judo, Mantis, Snake, Crane, Escrima, Tang Soo Do, Jujutsu, Nanquan, Hung Gar, Hapkido, Shotokan, Dragon, Ninjutsu, Sambo, San Shou, Tai Chi, Shuai Jiao, Sumo, Wrestling, Tong Bei Quan, and more.
> 
> SO...the fact it is a GAME...ALL of these styles must be fake! I've been fooled! GASP! Apparently I'm not the only one! Geeze...MK fooled people so badly, MT has dedicated forums to most of these bogus styles! Woe to us all! We've been tricked!
> 
> I couldn't see WHY they would throw in ALL real martial arts styles, and then feel it necessary to throw in ONE that's completely fake. My interest was sparked by this Crab style, so I did a little digging. Apparently, I'm not the ONLY ONE who thought it could possibly have been a style. There IS information on it, and someone's even inquired about it here at MT back in 2002.
> 
> [sarcasm]How GULLIBLE of me.[/sarcasm]
> 
> 
> 
> Have you even decided to READ what's been going on so far in this thread? You should try it.
> 
> I'm not trying to convince ANYONE it's a style. So far, the only people trying to convince anyone of anything here are those trying to convince ME that it's never existed. Based off of what evidence? NONE of any substance.
> 
> I simply noted that Shaolin.com makes mention to Crab Kung Fu, as do a few other sources, so I'm not just taking everyone for a ride here. I'm not talking about frickin' Clam Kung Fu, people. I'm not pulling something out of my rear. There's enough reason to believe that this style could've existed. Anyone who claims it's BS has nothing of actual substance to provide to secure their claim.
> 
> I came here asking if anyone knew anything about it. That's it.
> 
> Sorry if I seem just a tad discourteous, but I came seeking information. Give me something to work with, people. The fact that crabs taste good and you can squish one beneath your foot doesn't debunk the fact it could've existed as a martial arts style, but that's what I've been given to deal with.


 
Read the entire thread, prior to any of the comments that I and others have made regarding it.  *You* should read what you've stated here and yes, you have been a TAD discourteous.

Your statements and the attitude you're displaying show that you are indeed trying to convince us that it exists or at least at one time existed and you've used that pitful website as your frame of reference in more than one of your posts.


----------



## Archangel M

Video Games are not valid sources of research data.


----------



## newtothe dark

No lightning bolts, no Fatality moves, nobody with 6 arms.
Real life Kung Fu is about dedicated training and a great teacher / student relationship.


----------



## Zeno

Nebuchadnezzar said:
			
		

> Your statements and the attitude you're displaying show that you are indeed trying to convince us that it exists or at least at one time existed and you've used that pitful website as your frame of reference in more than one of your posts.



Only one flaw in your genius conclusion. I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. I'm trying to find information on it. There have been a select few that actually gave me any information whatsoever. I really don't give a damn if you think it was a style or not. I seek a reason behind as to why it's foolish to think it was ever a form...and no one can give me anything relatively close to a real answer. Because you can't come up with any decent evidence as to the fact that crab never existed, you're deciding to attack the sources I've found that display information on it. Congratulations.

Have I ONCE stated anything like, "Yeah, but guys, Shaolin.com says stuff about it, so it MUST have been real!"

No, actually I've admitted that it's possible it never was. So I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. I'm just trying to see if any Kung Fu-savvy people have ever heard of it or have any information. Then people like you come and hijack the thread. Very good.



			
				Archangel M said:
			
		

> Video Games are not valid sources of research data.



Yeah...kinda know that. Hence why I'm here trying to find some more information on the subject from REAL people that REALLY know Kung Fu. Again...whoops! My mistake. You've proven nothing.



			
				newtothe dark said:
			
		

> No lightning bolts, no Fatality moves, nobody with 6 arms.
> Real life Kung Fu is about dedicated training and a great teacher / student relationship.



And this debunks the existence of the crab form how exactly? The facts you just threw out there we all know. I'm seeking info to see if anyone knows of crab kung fu, not how to shoot lightning bolts from your hands, perform "fatality moves", or grow another four arms.

You associate other unrealistic aspects of the game and use that as your defense.

"Hey, I saw crab kung fu as a style, among all other real styles used in MK. Anyone here, in the Kung Fu forum, know anything about it?"

"It's impossible to shoot lightning from your eyes! It must never have existed!"

"Point proven!"

Sorry, but if you're going to convince me that crab kung fu is a ridiculous notion, you're all going to have to do MUCH better than that.

But as of what it looks like so far, you can't.


----------



## Nebuchadnezzar

Zeno said:


> If you've played any of the more recent MK games, you realize that they have martial artists performing the attacks for each individual style (it's in the bonus sections of the game). *Each style they placed into the game is an actual art. I couldn't see them tossing in one that didn't exist. There's enough evidence to show that Crab Kung Fu was once a true form, and now it's been dissolved and given to other forms. I just want to know why*.


 


Zeno said:


> Anyone know anything about it really? *I've done some searching online, and I know it's a dead art now*, but does anyone know anything really in depth about it? It's always interested me.


 


Zeno said:


> I'd love to be able to go and find out more about it. I can't imagine getting pinched by a master of crab kung fu. Phew.
> 
> *I first found out about it through Mortal Kombat. In Deadly Alliance, Reptile had two martial arts that he could use...Hung Gar and Crab Kung Fu.*
> 
> *I loved the look, and decided to research it, and discovered either through the game's information, or the internet, that it was a dead art.*
> 
> *I also found a bit from Shaolin.com...*
> 
> *"Crab is now a dead system of kung fu, the remnants of which were incorporated into eagle, hong tiger and white eyebrow. Practitioners fought from a low, crouching scissors stance and used great wrist and forearm strength to attack nerves or cut off circulation with the crab pincer."*
> 
> *It sounds effective enough. I just wish I knew how/why it died and divided. I've yet to find any information on it.*


 


Zeno said:


> Only one flaw in your genius conclusion. I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. I'm trying to find information on it. There have been a select few that actually gave me any information whatsoever. I really don't give a damn if you think it was a style or not. I seek a reason behind as to why it's foolish to think it was ever a form...and no one can give me anything relatively close to a real answer. Because you can't come up with any decent evidence as to the fact that crab never existed, you're deciding to attack the sources I've found that display information on it. Congratulations.
> 
> Have I ONCE stated anything like, "Yeah, but guys, Shaolin.com says stuff about it, so it MUST have been real!"
> 
> No, actually I've admitted that it's possible it never was. So I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. I'm just trying to see if any Kung Fu-savvy people have ever heard of it or have any information. Then people like you come and hijack the thread. Very good.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah...kinda know that. Hence why I'm here trying to find some more information on the subject from REAL people that REALLY know Kung Fu. Again...whoops! My mistake. You've proven nothing.
> 
> 
> 
> And this debunks the existence of the crab form how exactly? The facts you just threw out there we all know. I'm seeking info to see if anyone knows of crab kung fu, not how to shoot lightning bolts from your hands, perform "fatality moves", or grow another four arms.
> 
> You associate other unrealistic aspects of the game and use that as your defense.
> 
> "Hey, I saw crab kung fu as a style, among all other real styles used in MK. Anyone here, in the Kung Fu forum, know anything about it?"
> 
> "It's impossible to shoot lightning from your eyes! It must never have existed!"
> 
> "Point proven!"
> 
> Sorry, but if you're going to convince me that crab kung fu is a ridiculous notion, you're all going to have to do MUCH better than that.
> 
> But as of what it looks like so far, you can't.


 
Yes you indeed have said that it's real.  You've also said in not exact words but still equalling the same that Shaolin.com says it's real.  You've been quoted and the pertinent statements have been bolded.


----------



## Archangel M

Or 12-14 years old.

Ive had discussions with my friends teenaged son and my own nephews that were eerily similar. The immersion in video games is blurring their concept of reality/fantasy.


----------



## Zeno

Zeno said:
			
		

> I wanted more information on the style known as Crab Kung Fu. If Shaolin.com mentions it, I doubt I'm the only one out there thinking that it COULD have existed, no matter how short lived it may have been. I can't say I know for a fact, because I don't.



What I think/assume/believe has NOTHING to do with trying to convince anyone in this thread to come to my side. 

If I was to state my opinion in front of you, would you be one of those people to duck and run screaming that you're being oppressed? Are you one of those people that believe because I have a Christmas tree in my yard at Christmas time, that I'm trying to convince people to join a Christian lifestyle? I honestly doubt it, but it's really the same thing here. My expression of what I believe is not my attempt to convince you to think in a way that differs to the way you think now. I'm truly sorry if my expression here has made you feel violated in some way. You don't think crab kung fu could've ever existed? *WHY?*

One fact remains. There's more evidence pointing to the fact that it did exist, rather than the fact that it's a fallacy. I'm not saying that just because a few sources on the internet claim it was once real, that it MUST have been. I'm saying that because of those few sources (which all claim relatively the same thing), whether they're dependable or not, there is more pointing to the fact that it did once exist. I'm assuming at this point, that crab kung fu, if it once existed, was a very minor, rural form for a very short period of time.



			
				Archangel M said:
			
		

> Ive had discussions with my friends teenaged son and my own nephews that were eerily similar. The immersion in video games is blurring their concept of reality/fantasy.



Yes. I'm a victim here. Please, save me. I need your help.

I've already replied to you previously, stating the truth behind what was placed in that very same video game. Did you respond to it? No. You're just throwing your 2 cents in whenever you feel there's an opening where you can make an *** out of me. Like a fly that just won't stop buzzing around your head.

I pose the same question to you. Don't think the crab form ever existed? *WHY?*

Think either of you can give me an ACTUAL answer? What is it you think? Even though this thread has gone somewhat off course, I'm still sticking to my original intention. I don't know everything like some of you, so I'll take this opportunity to learn.


----------



## Zeno

Also...another site that makes mention to crab, but also quite a few other styles of Kung Fu I've never heard of. I honestly don't know of their authenticity, I'm just posting this to show another site that points to crab's existence.

http://www.shaolinchowka.com/shaolin-kung-fu-forms/index.html

EDIT: You'll need to click on "Hand Forms" on the panel at the left side. It won't allow me to link directly to that part of the site. But it's right in there.


----------



## Xue Sheng

All kidding aside, and even though I did witness a real crab fight a loose to a set of chopsticks and a cleaver I am still inclined to believe that crab kung fu is as real as Kaio-ken at this point.

There has been no substantial proof given that says otherwise. 

I applaud your sticking to the quest but without more proof beyond what has been presented I am incline to say it is fake and if there ever was a "Crab" anything associated with Kung Fu it may have been a posture but I doubt an entire system. And since, if it ever did exist, it is no where to be found it was either ineffective, or not passed on a long time ago.


----------



## Zeno

Xue Sheng said:
			
		

> I applaud your sticking to the quest but without more proof beyond what has been presented I am incline to say it is fake



Thank you. That's the type of response I'm looking for. Not only am I looking for that, but I am looking for more information on all of it. Hopefully something definitive turns up.


----------



## LanJie

Zeno,
I thought of answering your question using a different approach. It is possible that you may get an answer on the research done on crab kung fu by the game developers themselves. They may have multiple sources of good information that you can confirm.

The story line of the Mortal Kombat Deadly Alliance was written by *Alexander Barrentine and John Vogel*. I could not find any contact information for them but here is the contact information for Midway (sorry I could not find a e-mail address).

Mortal Kombat: Deadly Alliance Credits
http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/gamecube/data/551908.html

Midway Contact page
http://www.midway.com/rxpage/ContactUs.html

I also looked into the information that I have on the styles that I believe Steel Tiger mentioned may have crab material, Bak Mei: White Eyebrow, Eagle Claw, (Ying Jow Pai and JIN YING CHUAN: Golden Eagle Claw) and Hung Gar. I could not find any crab techniques or forms but in the case of Bak Mei I could not get a complete list of the forms. The following is what I found.

Regards,
Steve

P.S. I think what you should keep in mind is that finding information about these rare styles in difficult. The information a found about JIN YING CHUAN: Golden Eagle Claw Fist I believe is true but it is hard to prove. The site on which I found the information is gone and though I still can site the videos on You Tube, one source of information does not create the best evidence for supporting a styles existence. 

That does not say it does not exist but it makes my job a lot more difficult in substantiating my case.

Bak Mei: White eyebrow style of kung fu 

Forms of the Bak Mei System. There are over *forty hand forms in the White eyebrow style of kung fu.* These routines are based on the traditional five animals of Shaolin, the Crane, the Dragon, the Panther, the Snake, and the Tiger. *The Sifus of this system will most commonly chose five to ten of these forms to train their students.*

Hand Forms of Bak Mei of Sifu Eddie Chong

*Sub Gee: The Cross*. This is most basic hand form in the white eyebrow system and it has 72 movements.. This form teaches the correct body alignment and stance work. The concepts that are taught in this set are Lung Bo or dragon stepping (this is practiced in eight directions) and pulling and anchoring palm. There is a saying that one must understand Sub Gee to understand the white eyebrow style.

*Far Pow: Fancy Panther*. Another translation for this form is tricky or cunning leopard and it implies the intelligent use of deceptive techniques. This form combines lightning fast footwork with kicking techniques and also teaches the use of the Pao Kuen, Leopard fist or Ginger Fist. This hand strike uses second knuckles of the hand as a striking surface.

*Chut Dim Mui Fa: Seven Points of the Plum Flower*. This routine has 72 movements. This form turns in on itself in a small circle. It contains many short range techniques and can be practiced in a very small area. This set uses the distinctive movement of triangle horse stepping.
Sub Bat Ding Jong: 18 Crazy Monks. This is the first of Bak Meis intermediate hand form and it teaches the concepts of unpredictability and creativity in combat. This form never repeats the same technique twice.

The Three Treasure Sets of Futsan Bak Mei

The following three sets Sub Bat Mor Kiu: Eighteen Devil Bridges or Eighteen Ghost Bridges, Gow Bo Tui: Nine Step Push , and Fu Bo: Tiger Steps represent the essence of the White Eyebrow system. These hand forms teach all the important techniques, strategies, and concepts of Bak Mei. When a practitioner can master the techniques of these sets the will have a great understanding of the depth of White Eyebrow Kung fu.

*Sub Bat Mor Kiu: Eighteen Devil Bridges or Eighteen Ghost Bridges*. This advanced set specializes in defending and attacking from angles, spinning foot work, and defending from attacks made to the rear. This set is famous in the world of Chinese Kung Fu.

*Gow Bo Tui: Nine Step Push*. This set focuses on training the practitioner to make rapid and speedy changes in footwork and palm strikes.
Fu Bo: Tiger Steps. This the final form of the Futsan Bak Mei system and it is the ultimate expression of White Eyebrow Kung fu. This form is the unification and perfection of all the previous hand forms and techniques.

*Forms of Bak Mei of Sigung Mai Yue Qiang*
Sup Gee Kun: Ten Character Fist (Cross Fist)
Dan Fut: Single ?
Gow Boy Toy: Nine Step ?
Fu Bo: Tiger Step
Sup Bat Mo Kiu: 18 Ghost Bridge
Jui San Sing: 
Diu Jeung : ? Palm
Um Jow Gum Lung: 5? Gold Dragon
Sup Bat Fung Jung: 18 ? ?
Seung Tao Chai Mei Gwan: Double ? ? Eyebrow Staff
Seung Chut Sao: Double Seven (Section Chain Whip?)

(Wah KFWU, 12/00 40).
Wah, Ching Hing,  The Forbidden Fist of Bak Mei Kungfu.
Kung Fu,Wushu.(December 2000): 40.



Hung Gar Forms: Lam Family Canton Style 


Total Forms: 
Empty Hand Forms 
1. Gung Gee Fook Fu : Kuen Taming the Tiger&#24037;&#23383;&#20239;&#34382;&#25331;
2. Fu Hok Seung Ying Kuen : Tiger and Crane&#34382;&#40372;&#38617;&#24418;&#25331;
3. Ng Ying Kuen: 5 Animal Fist &#20116;&#24418;&#25331;
4. Sup Ying Kuen 10 Shape Fist a,k,a. 5 Animals 5 Elements Fist &#21313;&#24418;&#25331; / &#20116;&#24418;&#20116;&#34892;&#25331;
5.Tid Sin Kuen: Iron Wire Set &#37941;&#32218;&#25331;
6.Lau Gar Kuen: Lau Family Fist &#21129;&#23478;&#25331;
7. Chin Cheung : War Palm or Arrow Palm &#31661;&#25484;/&#25136;&#25484;
8. Ban Bo Kuen : Crushing Step &#23849;&#27493;Adopted from Chut Sing Tang Lang Kuen &#19971;&#26143;&#34739;&#34690;
Two Person Hand Forms 2

Gung Gee Doy Da &#24037;&#23383;&#20239;&#34382;&#23565;&#25286;
Fu Hok Seung Ying Doy Da &#34382;&#40372;&#38617;&#24418;&#23565;&#25286;
Staff Gun or Gwan 3
Hang Che Pang "traveller's staff" &#34892;&#32773;&#26834; alias _hau ji gwan Monkey King Staff _&#29492;&#23376;&#26829;
Lau Gar Gwan: Lau Gar Staff &#21129;&#23478;&#26829; alias "single ended staff" (_daan tau gwan_ &#21934;&#38957;&#26829;) 
Yeung ga ng long baatgwa gwan: Yeung family Fifth brother's eight diagrams staff &#26954;&#23478;&#20116;&#37070;&#20843;&#21350;&#26829; alias "single ended staff" (_daan tau gwan_ &#21934;&#38957;&#26829;)
Do : Broadsword 4
lau yip pekgwa daan dou : (Willow Leaf Single 8 Diagram Single Broadsword &#26611;&#33865;&#21128;&#21350;&#21934;&#20992;
Dan Chi Fai Do-Commanders Single Broadsword &#21934;&#25351;&#25582;&#20992;
Seung Long Do: Double Dragon Broadsword &#38617;&#40845;&#20992;
Geichung daai hang yut seung dou _"_Geuichung's big crescent moon double knives" &#36554;&#27798;&#22823;&#34892;&#26376;&#38617;&#20992;
Gim: Double Edge Straight Sword 2
Sung Moon Gim life gatesword &#29983;&#38272;&#21133;
Kuan Lan Gim Kuan Lan mountain sword &#26118;&#20374;&#21133;
Cheong or Spear 1
Si Gar Moi Fa Ying Cheong : Si family plum blossom spear &#21490;&#23478;&#26757;&#33457;&#27387;&#27085;
Flexible Weapons 2
sap ji daan yun bin : cross pattern single chain whip &#21313;&#23383;&#21934;&#36575;&#38829;
mui fa seung yun bin : plum blossom double chain whips &#26757;&#33457;&#38617;&#36575;&#38829;
Heavy Long Weapons 3
Moi fa siu tiu: Plum Flower Long Handled Broadsword &#26757;&#33457;&#25361;
Dai kwan do: Great General Kwans Sword &#38364;&#20992;
Yiu Gar Dai paa: Yiu Family Big Trident &#25622;&#23478;&#22823;&#24052;
_Special Weapons 1_
_lung tau baan dang : dragon head wooden bench _&#40845;&#38957;&#26495;&#20979;_ Possible part of the system_


Two Person Weapon Sets 6
Seung Tao Kwan Doy Da: 2 Person Double Ended Staff &#38617;&#38957;&#26829;&#23565;&#25286;
Ng Lung Ba Gwa Gwan Doy Da : 2 Person Fifth brother's eight diagrams staff &#20116;&#37070;&#20843;&#21350;&#26829;&#23565;&#25286;
Darn Do Chin Cheong : Single Broadsword vs. Spear &#21934;&#20992;&#23565;&#27085;
Seung Do Chin Cheong : Double Butterfly Knives vs. Spear &#38617;&#20992;&#23565;&#27085;
Kwan Do Doy Cheong : Kwan Do vs. Spear &#38364;&#20992;&#23565;&#27085;
Seung Bei Sau Doy Cheong : Double Daggers &#38617;&#27604;&#25163;&#23565;&#27085;
http://www.hungkuen.com/forms.htm

The 4 Schools of Hung Gar
Canton Hung Gar
This is the most popular school of Hung Gar outside of China. It features the Kiu Sau or Bridge Hand and Sei Ping Ma. 

The Major Hand sets of Canton Hung Gar are, 
Kung Gee Fook: Taming the Tiger
Fu Hoc Sheung Ying Kuen: Tiger and Crane
Sup Ying Kuen: Five Elements, Five Animals
Tiet Sing Kuen: Iron Thread Fist
(Ching 83).

Hay Say Fu Hung Gar
This school is the most consistent with the earliest descriptions of Hung Gar. This school uses the Yee Gee Kim Yeung Ma (Withdrawing the Gonads horse Stance). 
The Major Hand Sets of Hay Say Fu Hung Gar are, 
Bao Ying Kuen: Panther
Fu Ying Kuen: Tiger
She Ying Kuen: Snake
Hoc Ying Kuen: Crane
Lung Ying Kuen: Dragon
(Ching 83).

Wubei Hung Gar
This school was creations is attributed to the first Song Emperor. Wubei Hung Gar focuses on open hand strikes over the closed fist.
Major Hand Sets of Wubei Hung Gar are, 
Jung Sao: Big Combination Hand
Fong Sao: Jamming Hand
Gum Gong Sao: Gold Generals Hand
(Ching 83).

Szechuan Hung Gar
This school is most consistent with modern Shaolin Temple Kung Fu. Szechuan Hung Gar seldom sidesteps and attacks along the opponents centerline.
Major Hand Sets of Szechuan Hung Gar are,
Siu Hong Kuen: Small Red Fist
Da Hong Kuen: Big Red Fist
Hong Moon Choy: Red Door Strike
Hong Moon Sao: Red Door Hand
(Ching 83).

Ching, Gene, Original Hung Gar the Tangled Roots of a Powerful Kung-Fu.
Inside Kung-Fu. (January 1999): 81-85.

JIN YING CHUAN: GOLDEN EAGLE SYSTEM &#37329;&#40441;&#25331;. This is a southern kung fu system that originated from the Fukien province and was brought to Taiwan during the late 19th century. The style was brought to Taiwan by the Jin Ying Sifu Ah Sen-Sai. 
Hand Forms
Er Die Wei
Wu die Wei
Yi Die Tou
Er Die Tou
Wu Die Tou
Si Die Wei
Weapons
Wu Dui Dao: Butterfly Saber
http://www.youtube.com/user/tonyshaw283


Ying Jow Pai: Northern Eagle Claw Forms
Adopted Northern Fist Forms
Kung Lek Kuen Power Fist
Jeet Kuen Quick Fist
Yee Long Kuen God Fist
Sei Lok Kuen Four and Six Fist
Tam Tui Springing Leg 
Bung Bo Crushing Step from Bak Tang Lang (Northern Praying Mantis Kungfu)

Eagle Claw Fist Forms
Sui Min Jeung Small Cotton Palm
Mui Fa Kuen Plum Flower Fist
Law Horn Kuen Buddha Fist
Hun Kuen Walking Fist
Ng Fa Pow Five Flower Leopard
Tai Joe Kuen King Fist
Ngan Hun Kuen Walking Goose Fist
Dai Hung Kuen Great Hero Fist
Ng Fu Kuen Five Tiger Fist
Bat Bo Chui Eight Step Fist
Dai Min Jeung Great Cotton Palm
Sui Fu Ngan Small Tiger Eye
Sui Hung Kuen Small Hero Fist
Chin Lau Sai Front Flowing Movement
Fook Fu Kuen Controlling Tiger Fist
Day Tong Kuen Ground Fist
Lin Kuen Connecting Fist
Juk Lok Tong Six Falls Drunken (Shum 64).
Partner Fist Forms
Doi Min Jeung Fighting Cotton Palm
Yat Ling Bat 108
Toa Kuen Paired Fist
Sup Lok Da Sixteen Strikes
Hop Gin Harmony War
Nim Sau Kuen Sticky Hand Fist
Jow Da Cum Na Eagle Claw Principles
Sam Yan Doi Kuen Three Men Fighting Fist
N/A 108 Locking Hand
(Shum 65).

Weapon Forms
Kwan Yeung Kwan Shepherd Staff
Sil Lum Kwan Shaolin Staff
Kei Moon Kwan Odd Door Staff
Duin Kwan Short Stick
Si Dek Kwan Cane
Sam Jit Dwan Three-Section Staff
Bat Qua Do Eight Diagram Saber
Lok Hop Do Six Harmony Saber
Ng How Do Five Guardian Saber
Day Tong Seung Do Ground Double Saber
Ng Fu Cheung Five Tiger Spear
Mui Fa Chueng Plum Flower Spear
Lok Hop Cheung Six Harmony Spear
Huoon Tzi Cheung Circle Spinning Spear
Lin Wan Gim Connecting Linking Spear
Dat Mo Gim Dat Mos Sword
Ching Fung Gim Clear Wind Sword
Jor Yow Gim Left Right Sword
Lung Fung Seung Gim Dragon Phoenix Sword
Chun Chow Dai Do Dynasty Kwan Do
Sei Moon Dai Do Four Door Kwan Do
Seung Pei Double Daggers
Fu Tao Seung Ngau Tiger Head Double Hooks
Tchut Jit Bin Seven-Link Chain
Wan Sin Cloudy Fan
(Shum 64).

Partner Weapon Forms
Don Do Por Cheung Single Saber Defeats Spear
Seung Do Doi Cheung Double Saber fights Spear
Cheung Doi Cheung Spear fights Spear
Cheung Duin Doi Kwan Short Staff fights Long Staff
Lui Fung Doi Kwan Thunder Wind Fighting Staff
Sam Jit Kwan Doi Cheung Three-Section Staff fights Spear
Bo Fu Cheung Hunting Tiger Spear
Hung Sau Seung Pei Empty Hand fights Double Dagger
Doi Gim Fighting Sword 
Doi Gim Mo Fighting Sword Dance
Seung Gim Mo Double Sword Dance
Dai Do Doi Cheung Kwan Do fights Spear
Don Do Gwai Doi Cheung Saber and Crutch fights Spear
Hung Sau Doi Cheung Empty Hand fights Spear
(Shum 65).

Shum, Leung. Eagle Claw Kung Fu.
Boston: Tuttle Publishing, 2001.


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## newtothe dark

Great post LanJie!!!!!:headbangin:


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## LanJie

Thank you very much.  Hopefully we will eventually find a reasonable answer to the crab kung fu question.
Regards,
Steve


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## Zeno

Thank you very much for the information, Steve. That's exactly the kind of thing this thread was aiming for. I'll do a bit of hunting around to see what I can find. Apparently there's a number of rare animal kung fu styles, most of which I've never heard of. Could some of it possibly be BS? Sure. But I'm leaning towards crab having existed in one way or another.


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## LanJie

Zeno,
I am glad I could help. I looked at my information on Ngo Cho Kun (Five Ancestor Fist) and Choy Li Fut but they both have no crab forms or techniques. 

I believe the problem with a lot of this type of research is that is difficult to even find out about the forms of a system some times. The southern systems which have animal forms in them are not as common in the states as they are in Asia.

With the exception of Hung Gar and Choy li Fut one rarely can find Mok Gar Kuen, Choy Gar Kuen, Lau Gar Kuen (The are a lot of schools in the U.K), and do not recall ever finding Li Gar.

Sifu Tai Yim has a great Hung Fut organization but the information on the forms of the system is scarce.

Regards,
Steve


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## Topeng

Crab can be defeated with a special shampoo. Ask your doctor.


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## Nebuchadnezzar

Topeng said:


> Crab can be defeated with a special shampoo. Ask your doctor.


 






Do you mean this?  Must be very effective, haven't seen an Crab schools.


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## aleksander

Crab style kung fu is far from being dead - this is misleading! It is a very rare system (the same as goose, chicken, toad, terrapin (turtle), locust/grasshopper, and even southern Snake fist (as depicted in Snake in the Eagle's Shadow). And there are many more, for instance, Taiwanese butterfly and black crane systems, drunken praying mantis, elephant style ...). Crab system is non-commercial (traditional) style and is still practised in China. It consists of only 2 empty hand forms.


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## LanJie

aleksander said:


> Crab style kung fu is far from being dead - this is misleading! It is a very rare system (the same as goose, chicken, toad, terrapin (turtle), locust/grasshopper, and even southern Snake fist (as depicted in Snake in the Eagle's Shadow). And there are many more, for instance, Taiwanese butterfly and black crane systems, drunken praying mantis, elephant style ...). Crab system is non-commercial (traditional) style and is still practised in China. It consists of only 2 empty hand forms.


 
Hello Aleksander:

I was wondering if you could provide any more information on this systems i.e. masters that teach them, history and lineage, or the names and locations the schools.

I have read some vague references to existence of Black Crane. 

I have been told about a southern snake style master that was killed by Ng Mui (Wu Mei) and that is why his snake system died out.

The only time I have heard of drunken praying mantis was that it was a contemporary Wushu form, that was used in the CCK Tai Chi Praying mantis tournament several years ago. It was used in the open hand form category I believe. I have heard of a number of drunken forms in northern mantis systems. Is this system northern or southern?

I have heard of elephant kung fu but to my knowledge this was a Choy Li Fut form in the linage of Sifu Doc Fai Wong's School.

Hallander, Jane. Choy Li Fut's Elephant Form.
Inside Kung-Fu. (December 1997): 42-47.

Any references would be most helpful.

Regards,

Steve


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## Nebuchadnezzar

aleksander said:


> Crab style kung fu is far from being dead - this is misleading! It is a very rare system (the same as goose, chicken, toad, terrapin (turtle), locust/grasshopper, and even southern Snake fist (as depicted in Snake in the Eagle's Shadow). And there are many more, for instance, Taiwanese butterfly and black crane systems, drunken praying mantis, elephant style ...). Crab system is non-commercial (traditional) style and is still practised in China. It consists of only 2 empty hand forms.


 

Says who?  Where do you get this information from?  What are the sources?


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## Xue Sheng

aleksander said:


> Crab system is non-commercial (traditional) style and is still practised in China.


 
That's an awfully big area, care to tell me where in China: province, city, etc?


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## Zeno

Kinda hoping he comes back to provide some reasoning towards his post. I want to see some more substance.


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## Chitmunk

I apologize, but there is really no need to be getting rude about another persons thirst for knowledge.  Most video games these days (especially the one-on-one fighters) are trying to get a little more realistic with their movements so it is very possible that an art seen in a style could have roots in reality.  The poster has obviously done some research before posting here to find out that the art is already dead, and was simply seeking knowledge to educate.  Most animal styles were based on how one animal faces another, and certain crabs can sever fingers as well as the odd quick sideways movement and hard shell, taking those things into accout it is very possible that someone could have made a system emphasizing those points into an effective fighting style.  Whether or not there is such a style I have no knowledge myself, but it is very rude to insult someone who is simply trying to gather information and real martial artists should never be rude.  If you don't think the style exsists there is no problem with saying so, but to sarcastically critisize someone who had a simple question is below the honor of a warrior and one who does so should be ashamed of themselves.


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## Chitmunk

most of the posts on here that claim the style doesn't exsist back their claims by attacking the poster, and the poster's sources.  Where are the facts?  Attacking Zeno like that is like sucker punching an opponent showing his respects for a friendly challenge, it is bad form and utterly shameful... most of you owe Zeno an apology.  What makes this worse is that compared to many of you I am just a young pup at 25 years of age and I am having to call all of you out for this lack of respect. Those of you who really tried to see if there was info out there for Zeno, this rant does not apply to you and you have earned my respect, reguardless of how much or how little you may value it.  Keep up the search Zeno, I am very interested in what you may, or may not find out.


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## tshadowchaser

Ok folks lets keep the personal stuff off this thread 


Lets instead return to the question 





> Anyone know anything about it really?


 
If there are any of you looking for information on the system/style and you find anything  proving the existence of it please post here.


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## Zeno

Here's another discussion about Crab Kung Fu. Just for anyone who may be interested.

Yes, that's right, this thread will NEVER die! 

http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-30016.html


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## bowser666

Not sure if anyone posted this yet, 

Full article.




> Within our system we have a from called the Crab.  There is also a gentlemen by the name of Sanchez, I believe, who practices a style called the crab but I could not give you any details on what he does.  As far as what our form does it would be hard to detail it in words on the internet but just to briefly thumbnail etch out a little to you, there are techniques aimed at placing you in position to do some cross stepping techniques aimed at the opponents legs, to damaged the legs and take the person down.  The fingers are used in a pincher type style to attack vulnerable areas of the body.  Strong fingers are a good idea, the stronger the fingers the more effective the form and to that end finger tip pushups are practiced along with special exercises with iron palm bags and other equipment.


Hope this helps a little.  It seems to be quite obscure. There are also many more living styles of Kung Fu out there.  You might researching those interesting as well.  Probably find more about them as well.


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## Zeno

This has been brought to the attention of the thread previously as a basis for the belief in Crab Kung Fu. It just seems this style is under a lot of debate and scrutiny, running as high as to question it even ever existing whatsoever. I can see it, but a lot of others can't, as you can probably tell.


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## aleksander

There was said much about crab style of kung fu. Some say it is ridiculous and non-existent, some admit its existence. My curiosity about this style arouse when I first saw it in numerous old kung fu movies, so I thought the Chinese could have made it up for cinematic reasons - but later I found out that this is not true for all the styles depicted and presented in those movies. To be honest, some are made of but some are true. But this can be seen from the styles moves - some moves/techniques just don't work, and there is higher probability for the style's non-existence. Well, according to my humble research, the crab style somehow survived  - not just in the movies and is far from being dead. I suspect it tobe a national/cultural treasure of the Chinese kung fu community and is thus reserved for the dedicated ones, preferably Chinese.
I was so curious about it that I contacted Sifu Matheus Lao Shi from UK who is the native Chinese, a master of kung fu, and who had an opportunity to travel through China and research the 'rare' but respected styles of 'real' kung fu (not contemporary wushu). He told me that the Chinese are a very tight-closed community who rarely trust a newcomer who is not being tested before. They hide their feelings and words, and many more of 'their' things from easy-going Westerners like us. They are smart! And this way they jealously hide martial arts like crab boxing, goose boxing, turtle boxing, etc. These styles do exist - in some isolated villages, under different names - camouflaged! This is because of the communist regime which prohibited 'real and deadly' kung fu by establishing contemporarily modified wushu forms with which they feed the Westerners - this way they want to show us there is nothing worthy in kung fu and that it is all about flashy acrobatics and unreal techniques. This way they want to get rid of strangers so that they would not steal their national treasure and sell it around cheap.
Sifu Lao Shi told me that Crab fist originated from Hung Gar and that it has only 2 forms which immitate the crab by moving and fighting sideways. The style's name should be Long Zun Quan. 
Well, I am still curious about if this is a village stye of kung fu - which village, who founded it and why, and why Long Zun Quan when the name for Crab kung fu should be Pang Xie Quan!?
If anybody knows these answers, I would be happy if you guys could share it with me.
Of course, crab style is enshrouded in a mystery a lot, but - be patient - the style will be disclosed sooner or later.
You can contact Sifu Mattheus Lao Shi via his website: 'Shaolin Gung fu Society'.
Keep it up!


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## zeeberex

tshadowchaser said:


> I have never heard of it in any of the Chinese systems but I believe I once heard of it when someone was referring to the way some of the Ninjutsu practitioners moved.  Perhaps this question should be asked of them also
> 
> Of course I could be completely incorrect on this



sorry, it's new to me.


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## kaizasosei

I always thought that it was crabish to walk in the bridge or on all fours with the hands dropping backwards  
Basically, to explain, you are sitting on the floor leaning back and then you raise your pelvis so you are no longer on your butt, feet are planted flat on the floor or on toes and arms are holding up the upper body..  If one walks in this position, or in the bridge-which is even more difficult, it seems similar to a crab- kindof like breakdancing.  or in the anime samurai champloo there is the character mugen that fights in such a way-being from okinawa the favorite food of mugen is crab.  hmmm...may be a connection there. 

in shaolin i saw this exercise called the 'panther walk' where one walks in the pushup position.  It looks like it's really good for strength.  I'm doing many pushups everyday now sometimes only 20 a day, just the other day though i did 108 and after that again 70.  I'm seeing that pushups strengthen not only the arms and chest but all sorts of parts of the back and waist.  I'm thinking the crab style trains flexibilty and agility.  It's a fairly natural position.


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## ArmorOfGod

Look: http://www.numchucks.com/two_million_dollar_course_philadelphia.html
He can teach you Crab Fu!!!!


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## Rabu

Look at that, I paid six million for my degree in 'bionic fu' but for only TWO million you can get crabs in many forms.

Pshah!

Rob


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## Nebuchadnezzar

kaizasosei said:


> I always thought that it was crabish to walk in the bridge or on all fours with the hands dropping backwards
> Basically, to explain, you are sitting on the floor leaning back and then you raise your pelvis so you are no longer on your butt, feet are planted flat on the floor or on toes and arms are holding up the upper body.. If one walks in this position, or in the bridge-which is even more difficult, it seems similar to a crab- kindof like breakdancing. or in the anime samurai champloo there is the character mugen that fights in such a way-being from okinawa the favorite food of mugen is crab. hmmm...may be a connection there.
> 
> in shaolin i saw this exercise called the 'panther walk' where one walks in the pushup position. It looks like it's really good for strength. I'm doing many pushups everyday now sometimes only 20 a day, just the other day though i did 108 and after that again 70. I'm seeing that pushups strengthen not only the arms and chest but all sorts of parts of the back and waist. I'm thinking the crab style trains flexibilty and agility. It's a fairly natural position.


 
I don't think you've read this thread.


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## tongsau

Zeno said:


> Anyone know anything about it really? I've done some searching online, and I know it's a dead art now, but does anyone know anything really in depth about it? It's always interested me.


Hi, I know it’s an old thread but I came across a teacher of this style: Andre Kole. He learned it from Houdini directly. It is the internal art but similar to zen meditation and qigong. Fastest chi building system I have ever learned. Also requires waterboxing training. But any external system can help. I teach it as a fighting art in Phoenix.


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