# Does your school teach elbow energy...



## jg_wc (May 18, 2014)

I'm curious as to what other schools/lineages teach in regards to elbow energy.
In the little experience I have in talking to other schools i've found that some don't spend any time teaching or exploring this concept, while others give it a lot of importance (i.e. first section of SLT is all about developing elbow energy)

What does your school say?


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## Marnetmar (May 18, 2014)

Making proper use of the elbow is very important in my school since it's considered a component of good structure.


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## OzPaul (May 18, 2014)

When practicing SLT one of the main things i focus on is my elbow, when doing the tan sau's i focus on pushing the elbow forward and when doing the wu sao its about drawing the elbow back whilst having forward force from the wrist... if that makes sense.


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## Vajramusti (May 18, 2014)

jg_wc said:


> I'm curious as to what other schools/lineages teach in regards to elbow energy.
> In the little experience I have in talking to other schools i've found that some don't spend any time teaching or exploring this concept, while others give it a lot of importance (i.e. first section of SLT is all about developing elbow energy)
> 
> What does your school say?


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The elbow is very important in hand structure.


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## donnaTKD (May 19, 2014)

the elbow in muay thai is a both offence and defence and learning how to use it is the same as learning how to kick properly --- a properly directed elbow is very effective at close quarters


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## ST1Doppelganger (May 19, 2014)

OzPaul said:


> When practicing SLT one of the main things i focus on is my elbow, when doing the tan sau's i focus on pushing the elbow forward and when doing the wu sao its about drawing the elbow back whilst having forward force from the wrist... if that makes sense.



Whats your WC lineage if you don't mind saying because I've studied a bit under two and one of them  (WSL Lineage) was the one that put heavy emphasis on the elbow being the key element to the hand techniques.


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## wingchun100 (May 19, 2014)

The immovable elbow is one of the first concepts I learned about.


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## Kwan Sau (May 19, 2014)

Any WC kwoon that does not teach proper elbow structure, energy, etc = utter nonsense.


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## jg_wc (May 19, 2014)

cheers guys seems that most put a lot of emphasis on elbow energy.

Just wondering, does your school encourage a slow siu lim tao? Let's say more than 10 minutes for the first section? I've always been told the first section is where elbow energy is developed and that it should be practiced slowly. Is yours slow? What other ways are there to develop this energy?


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## wingchun100 (May 19, 2014)

jg_wc said:


> cheers guys seems that most put a lot of emphasis on elbow energy.
> 
> Just wondering, does your school encourage a slow siu lim tao? Let's say more than 10 minutes for the first section? I've always been told the first section is where elbow energy is developed and that it should be practiced slowly. Is yours slow? What other ways are there to develop this energy?



If you mean the section where you do the three fook saos, then yes, we are encouraged to do that section slowly.


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## jg_wc (May 19, 2014)

wingchun100 said:


> If you mean the section where you do the three fook saos, then yes, we are encouraged to do that section slowly.


Cheers,

If you don't mind me asking, what Lineage are you from? And by slowly, how long is your first section (3 fook saus) roughly?


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## wingchun100 (May 19, 2014)

jg_wc said:


> Cheers,
> 
> If you don't mind me asking, what Lineage are you from? And by slowly, how long is your first section (3 fook saus) roughly?



I study under Sifu Russ Cichon, who is a student under Yip Ching. As for length, it all depends on how much time I have. I've done the form for a half hour in the past. With four kids these days, I don't have as much time to stand around and do that. LOL


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## jg_wc (May 19, 2014)

wingchun100 said:


> I study under Sifu Russ Cichon, who is a student under Yip Ching. As for length, it all depends on how much time I have. I've done the form for a half hour in the past. With four kids these days, I don't have as much time to stand around and do that. LOL


fair enough! Not to mention they'll probably look at daddy and think wth is he doing?!?!? is he alright?!


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## Tony Dismukes (May 19, 2014)

donnaTKD said:


> the elbow in muay thai is a both offence and defence and learning how to use it is the same as learning how to kick properly --- a properly directed elbow is very effective at close quarters



I believe they're talking about a particular approach to understanding structure and energy, not about striking with the elbow.


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## wingchun100 (May 19, 2014)

Tony's got it, although there still is a structure behind how you do your elbow strikes. But the OP was referring to what is known as the immovable elbow theory.


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## OzPaul (May 20, 2014)

st1doppelganger said:


> whats your wc lineage if you don't mind saying because i've studied a bit under two and one of them  (wsl lineage) was the one that put heavy emphasis on the elbow being the key element to the hand techniques.



wsl


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## ST1Doppelganger (May 20, 2014)

OzPaul said:


> wsl



Nice Its one of my preferred WC lineages but then again I've only touched hands with three different lineages of WC players.


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## OzPaul (May 20, 2014)

We practice a "Lat Sau Jik Chung" drill when practicing tan sau's which emphasizes elbow power.  Standing in YGKYM have your training partner stand in front of you and have them apply forward pressure on your tan sau from underneath, say half way along your forearm.  Their job is to stop your tan sau going forward and not to re-direct it up, down or to the side as you push the tan forward from the elbow.  Your partner then randomly releases quickly and if you are training properly your tan will shoot straight forward and you punch your opponent.  (keeping the wrist relaxed allows you to change shape of the hand quickly).  If you have poor forward force you will either, stay in the same position or "chase hands".  It's one of my favourite drills.


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## jg_wc (May 20, 2014)

OzPaul said:


> We practice a "Lat Sau Jik Chung" drill when practicing tan sau's which emphasizes elbow power.  Standing in YGKYM have your training partner stand in front of you and have them apply forward pressure on your tan sau from underneath, say half way along your forearm.  Their job is to stop your tan sau going forward and not to re-direct it up, down or to the side as you push the tan forward from the elbow.  Your partner then randomly releases quickly and if you are training properly your tan will shoot straight forward and you punch your opponent.  (keeping the wrist relaxed allows you to change shape of the hand quickly).  If you have poor forward force you will either, stay in the same position or "chase hands".  It's one of my favourite drills.



sounds awesome!


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## wingchun100 (May 20, 2014)

While many lineages deviate from each other in many ways, most of the ones I've observed have emphasized the use of the elbow. After all, there is more to a punch than just the hand. If you think that a punch begins and ends with your fist, you will never generate the right amount of power.


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## jg_wc (May 20, 2014)

wingchun100 said:


> While many lineages deviate from each other in many ways, most of the ones I've observed have emphasized the use of the elbow. After all, there is more to a punch than just the hand. If you think that a punch begins and ends with your fist, you will never generate the right amount of power.



agreed.

however I started the thread because I have come across schools that don't emphasize this concept in section 1 of the siu lim tao (3 fook sau section) and make no mention of practicing this slowly. Instead its practiced purely as a strength building exercise for the forearms which i found strange. We've always been told to practice is slowly and relaxed focusing on nothing but the elbow.


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## geezer (May 20, 2014)

jg_wc said:


> agreed.
> 
> however I started the thread because I have come across schools that don't emphasize this concept in section 1 of the siu lim tao (3 fook sau section) and make no mention of practicing this slowly. Instead its practiced purely as a strength building exercise for the forearms which i found strange. We've always been told to practice is slowly and relaxed focusing on nothing but the elbow.



Well, we do the three fook-sau extentions with a certain degree of elastic tension to stretch and strengthen the wrist and forearm, but that in no way means that we don't also emphasize the importance orf the elbow.

Also, we usually don't do the _slow_ version of the saam pai fut movements in class. Time is just too short. That's on the student to do at home.


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