# practicing ninjutsu



## shorinfighter (Feb 4, 2013)

I am new to ninjutsu and I wanted to know how I could practice it at my house and what sort of techniques and/or exercises I should do.


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## Chris Parker (Feb 4, 2013)

Talk to your instructor. 

That's not a way of fobbing you off, you realize, but different schools will have different syllabus' (especially in the Bujinkan), with different emphasis', and different technical requirements. Additionally, your teacher will be able to see what you would personally need to work on the most, which no-one here will have a clue on for you. There is no way we can actually give any realistic answer... and, after all, this type of question is exactly what your instructor is there for.


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## shorinfighter (Feb 4, 2013)

I dont have an instructor in my area. I am just asking. What are the basic forms i should start off with in ninjutsu, since i am pretty much training myself using information from the internet.


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## Chris Parker (Feb 4, 2013)

Then you're not learning anything. Without an instructor, you can't learn this.


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## Dirty Dog (Feb 5, 2013)

Chris is right. You really cannot learn any martial art properly without an instructor. You can fake it, and learn it badly, and in ways that can get you hurt, but you really cannot learn from books and YouTube.
Books and videos can be an excellent supplement to, but cannot replace, a good instructor.


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## Omar B (Feb 5, 2013)

I was waiting for this thread to happen again.  Sure smells like a new year in here.

You cannot learn MA by yourself no matter how many books, videos or movies you have seen.  Heck, I've never seen anything close to ninjutsu in a movie, a lot of karate, tkd and tsd in nice black uniforms though.


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## Tez3 (Feb 5, 2013)

While Ninjutsu might the style you really want to learn it would be better to learn another style if there was an instructor close to you. I know it won't be what be what you wanted but you may enjoy it and certainly a few lessons at least with another style will show you the impossibility of trying to teach yourself. It may be that that circumstanstances will change some time and you will find somewhere to train what you really want to.


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## shorinfighter (Feb 5, 2013)

I am well aware that learning it by yourself is not as good as with an instructor. I have taken martial arts before with an instructor so i know what can get me hurt and what can't. I also know how to prevent injury. I believe that learning it without an instructor is better than not learning it at all. But even if i don't learn much online. I will still search for other techniques from other forms, that way i can learn their knowlege too and how to better defend myself.


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## Tez3 (Feb 5, 2013)

shorinfighter said:


> I am well aware that learning it by yourself is not as good as with an instructor. I have taken martial arts before with an instructor so i know what can get me hurt and what can't. I also know how to prevent injury. I believe that learning it without an instructor is better than not learning it at all. But even if i don't learn much online. I will still search for other techniques from other forms, that way i can learn their knowlege too and how to better defend myself.



I think, sadly, you've missed the point.


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## Dirty Dog (Feb 5, 2013)

shorinfighter said:


> I am well aware that learning it by yourself is not as good as with an instructor. I have taken martial arts before with an instructor so i know what can get me hurt and what can't. I also know how to prevent injury. I believe that learning it without an instructor is better than not learning it at all. But even if i don't learn much online. I will still search for other techniques from other forms, that way i can learn their knowlege too and how to better defend myself.



This is incorrect. It's not that learning by yourself is "not as good", it's that it just isn't possible.
You say that you know what can get you hurt and how to prevent injury. Ok.. tell us about your prior martial arts training. What did you study? For how long? Now tell us how this training applies to ninjutsu which may well have entirely different principles (we won't know that, of course, until we know what training you have had).


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## shorinfighter (Feb 5, 2013)

Well I was in shorin ryu karate for three years. And you are right there are different ways to get hurt in different forms. But it isnt hard to prevent injurym even in a form you are just introduced to. And learning by myself is possible. I just need a good way to get information on the forms then i practice what i am told. The reason i want to learn ninjutsu is so i can learn a more complex style of fighting. I still practice my karate but, my goal is to learn many forms. Not completely, but enough to know how to use them correctly. My karate doesnt apply to ninjutsu one bit, but before you tell me to go back to karate I must respectfully say "no"


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## shorinfighter (Feb 5, 2013)

Another reason i am practicing online is because i cannot afford to go to a real dojo right now. So online is my best option. Going to a real dojo is not cheap you know.


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## Dirty Dog (Feb 5, 2013)

shorinfighter said:


> Well I was in shorin ryu karate for three years. And you are right there are different ways to get hurt in different forms. But it isnt hard to prevent injurym even in a form you are just introduced to. And learning by myself is possible. I just need a good way to get information on the forms then i practice what i am told. The reason i want to learn ninjutsu is so i can learn a more complex style of fighting. I still practice my karate but, my goal is to learn many forms. Not completely, but enough to know how to use them correctly. My karate doesnt apply to ninjutsu one bit, but before you tell me to go back to karate I must respectfully say "no"



Honestly, I'm too tired tonight to even know where to start with this.

Chris, I think I'll leave this to you...


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## shorinfighter (Feb 5, 2013)

Go on tell me how stupid I am, just like everyone else. No matter what happens, i will still practice martial arts. I dont care weather or not it is with an instructor or not. I will always learn martial arts. And I will learn ninjutsu.


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## jks9199 (Feb 5, 2013)

shorinfighter said:


> I dont have an instructor in my area. I am just asking. What are the basic forms i should start off with in ninjutsu, since i am pretty much training myself using information from the internet.



Begin by practicing disappearing into a cloud of smoke.  Some start with appearing in one, but then you get confused and next thing you know, there are two of you when you were trying to disappear.  After you get the hang of using smoke clouds, it's an easy step to running on regular clouds.

And, of course, you must practice daily with throwing stars...

Sorry...  Tired, and couldn't resist.

You can't learn any of those arts without a teacher.  Maybe you can copy the motions of the kata, since so many are on YouTube now... but you'll be missing key issues.


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## shorinfighter (Feb 5, 2013)

That's exactly what i've been trying to say!!!!!!!!


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## shorinfighter (Feb 5, 2013)

All i want to know is what basic things i should practice. Not anything complicated that requires an instructor. I just want to know what the basic techniques used in ninjutsu are.  Kind of like how taikwondo focuses on kicking.  What does ninjutsu focus on?


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## ballen0351 (Feb 5, 2013)

shorinfighter said:


> Go on tell me how stupid I am, just like everyone else. No matter what happens, i will still practice martial arts. I dont care weather or not it is with an instructor or not. I will always learn martial arts. And I will learn ninjutsu.



So go have fun teach yourself.  Why do you need our approval?


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## shorinfighter (Feb 5, 2013)

I am not asking for approval. I am asking for help that actually helps me. I am not asking for a lecture on how i cant learn without an instructor. Because instrustors are way too expensive for me right now. I just want to know what the focus of ninjutsu is and how i should practice it.


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## jks9199 (Feb 5, 2013)

shorinfighter said:


> Well I was in shorin ryu karate for three years. And you are right there are different ways to get hurt in different forms. But it isnt hard to prevent injurym even in a form you are just introduced to. And learning by myself is possible. I just need a good way to get information on the forms then i practice what i am told. The reason i want to learn ninjutsu is so i can learn a more complex style of fighting. I still practice my karate but, my goal is to learn many forms. Not completely, but enough to know how to use them correctly. My karate doesnt apply to ninjutsu one bit, but before you tell me to go back to karate I must respectfully say "no"



It's not that ninjutsu is more complex than karate; it's different.  If I give you flour, sugar, butter, some cinnamon, and some apples... You're set for baking a pastry, right?  But you'd have a hell of time cooking a steak from them, right?  If you're building something, a welding torch won't do you much good if you're trying to use lumber, will it?  The underlying principles and strategies are quite different, and you need to be shown them properly.



shorinfighter said:


> Another reason i am practicing online is because i cannot afford to go to a real dojo right now. So online is my best option. Going to a real dojo is not cheap you know.



Maybe, maybe not.  Quite a few of the ninjutsu dojos in my area are pretty affordable, at least at the dojo level.  (I don't know about association fees; they can be a sneaky surprise sometimes!)  Some charge a few bucks per class; others have a monthly fee.  

As to not being available in your area... look around.  You might be surprised.  Contact some of the organizations or the dojos you can find online.  Even if there isn't a full fledged dojo in your area, there might be a quieter training group that practices together, under the guidance and supervision of an actual dojo.


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## shorinfighter (Feb 5, 2013)

Thank you very much. I will do that.


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## jks9199 (Feb 5, 2013)

shorinfighter said:


> All i want to know is what basic things i should practice. Not anything complicated that requires an instructor. I just want to know what the basic techniques used in ninjutsu are.  Kind of like how taikwondo focuses on kicking.  What does ninjutsu focus on?



Which school of ninjutsu?  Even limiting our discussion to the groups that derive from Toshitsugu Takamatsu, the Bujinkan is quite different from the Jinenkan, which is different again from the Genbukan... or even Stephen Hayes's To Shin Do/Quest Centers.  They all have their own takes and approaches to the same broad general body of knowledge and fighting strategies.  The Bujinkan really focuses on teaching their version of budo taijutsu, an amalgam of the 9 traditions that Hatsumi received, for example.


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## shorinfighter (Feb 5, 2013)

Doesnt ninjutsu focus a lot on stealth and evasion and stuff like that?


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## Aiki Lee (Feb 5, 2013)

shorinfighter said:


> All i want to know is what basic things i should practice. Not anything complicated that requires an instructor. I just want to know what the basic techniques used in ninjutsu are.  Kind of like how taikwondo focuses on kicking.  What does ninjutsu focus on?



I'm going to parot what others have said and say you can't learn ninjutsu without an instructor. You can't learn any martial art without an instructor. But, if you really want something to practice, practice the Ninpo Kihon Happo. Don't know what that is? Find an instructor.



> Doesnt ninjutsu focus a lot on stealth and evasion and stuff like that?



Depends. Stealth and concealment training are tied in with ninjutsu, but most schools don't practice them very often as far as I know. Mine does, but only at yearly camping trips. They are realitively simple; you just need to practice them consistently to be good at them. Want to know what they are? Find an instructor. I had to. I paid money and worked hard and drive a hour every other day to get to my dojo. Why should anyone give you information for nothing. That's not discussion, that's lecture.

And no one wants a lecture from me. Not while Chris is so much more articulate.

Everything realted to martial arts training requires an instructor. You may be able to study ninjutsu in the future, but at this moment it seems you cannot.


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## Dirty Dog (Feb 6, 2013)

shorinfighter said:


> Go on tell me how stupid I am, just like everyone else. No matter what happens, i will still practice martial arts. I dont care weather or not it is with an instructor or not. I will always learn martial arts. And I will learn ninjutsu.



Nobody said you were stupid. Frankly,  I don't really know or care if you're stupid. You will not learn these arts without a good instructor. You may mimic some movements, but you won't do it right, and you will never understand the basic underlying principles without a good instructor. I've written two textbooks for students of Taekwondo Moo Duk Kwan and if anybody wanted to learn the art from them, I'd tell them the same thing: it just isn't possible.

And good luck learning *anything* useful from the hours of crap posted on YouTube. There are some good clips buried in there, but you, sadly, don't know how to determine which ones are good and which ones are utter crap.


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## Dirty Dog (Feb 6, 2013)

shorinfighter said:


> Doesnt ninjutsu focus a lot on stealth and evasion and stuff like that?



If I may quote one of the most widely respected Karate Masters ever, Mr Miyagi, "You too much TV..."


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Feb 6, 2013)

You're posts here have proven to me that you don't know how to identify good ninjutsu, or that you don't truly understand what it is. You seem to be looking at it as if its a fighting style that focuses on stealth and evasion. While fighting is involved, from my understanding of it, there is much, much more than just the fighting involved, and the fighting isn't the most important aspect (although, some ninjutsu practitioners may focus only on the fighting). I'm not the best person on here to tell you what is important, I could but it wouldn't be the most accurate. Chris may be able to help you more, if he's willing. I will say, though, that if you're looking for a defensive fighting style focused on 'stealth and evasion', ninjutsu is not what you're looking for. Sounds like a CMA may be better for you (ask Xue Sheng which one, if he's willing as well). (Yes, I am passing the buck to other members of the forum, no it's not out of laziness. They are better qualified then me, and may be able to help you understand what you want...something thats pretty tough to find online...)


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## Chris Parker (Feb 6, 2013)

Dirty Dog said:


> Honestly, I'm too tired tonight to even know where to start with this.
> 
> Chris, I think I'll leave this to you...



And I think I'll take it back to the beginning...



shorinfighter said:


> I am new to ninjutsu and I wanted to know how I could practice it at my house and what sort of techniques and/or exercises I should do.



You're not new to ninjutsu. New to ninjutsu means that you've just joined a dojo, and are training under an instructor. What you are is interested in ninjutsu, with no real understanding of what that even is.



shorinfighter said:


> I dont have an instructor in my area. I am just asking. What are the basic forms i should start off with in ninjutsu, since i am pretty much training myself using information from the internet.



The very first step is to find an instructor. Without that first step, nothing else is possible. Despite the kata being on you-tube etc, there is no way you can learn them this way... and you won't find descriptions written down anywhere. Not that you can genuinely follow and learn from without guidance, anyway. Even my own students, when I've written down in great detail exactly how specific kata are performed, get them very badly wrong until they're shown the technique in question. Beyond that, there is a lot not written that is essential... the "way" things are done (what is often described as the "feel") is often more important than "how" (which hand/foot/step/grip etc)... and that is only learnt through experiencing it from someone who already knows it.



shorinfighter said:


> I am well aware that learning it by yourself is not as good as with an instructor. I have taken martial arts before with an instructor so i know what can get me hurt and what can't. I also know how to prevent injury. I believe that learning it without an instructor is better than not learning it at all. But even if i don't learn much online. I will still search for other techniques from other forms, that way i can learn their knowlege too and how to better defend myself.



Learning by yourself isn't just "not as good", it's impossible. You genuinely can't do it. The vast majority of methods in our arts are paired forms, with an attacking and defending side... so you need a partner, just to do things in the first place. And your partner needs to be far more experienced in the art than yourself (if they're the one guiding you). Without that, you can't learn the art at all. It has nothing to do with knowing how to "prevent injury" or anything similar.

As far as your previous experience, the only way you could learn anything the way you're wanting to is to learn a very similar system... and even then, you're going to miss a lot. Techniques are not the answer, and are almost irrelevant when it comes to learning to defending yourself. To think that "more techniques is better" is to completely misunderstand the reality of self defence, and martial arts.



shorinfighter said:


> Well I was in shorin ryu karate for three years. And you are right there are different ways to get hurt in different forms. But it isnt hard to prevent injurym even in a form you are just introduced to. And learning by myself is possible. I just need a good way to get information on the forms then i practice what i am told. The reason i want to learn ninjutsu is so i can learn a more complex style of fighting. I still practice my karate but, my goal is to learn many forms. Not completely, but enough to know how to use them correctly. My karate doesnt apply to ninjutsu one bit, but before you tell me to go back to karate I must respectfully say "no"



I think you're thinking of the wrong things when you use the term "forms" there.... karate style kata (realistically an Okinawan training methods, imported from China) is very, very different to a Japanese method. And you're not going to get information on the kata of the ninjutsu traditions online. Oh, and your goal is completely counter-productive, and will lead to you being less able to defend yourself, and less effective in the little you can do. I really don't care one way or another if you go back to karate or not, but taking bits from here, and bits from there is a recipe for disaster and sub-par skills. I'll put it this way... steak is good, so is soup. As is pizza. And ice-cream. But put them all in a bowl, mix them up, and do you think that works as a tasty meal? It's the same when you try just putting bits and pieces of unrelated (and ill-understood) systems/arts together, thinking it makes you better as a martial artist. It doesn't. It makes you a martial dabbler, unskilled at anything to any real degree, with no real understanding or knowledge.



shorinfighter said:


> Another reason i am practicing online is because i cannot afford to go to a real dojo right now. So online is my best option. Going to a real dojo is not cheap you know.



Irrelevant. If there isn't a school nearby, you can't learn it. If there is a school, but you can't afford it, you can't learn it. Sorry if that conflicts with your ideas of what you should be able to do, but that's reality. You're not entitled to train (badly, inaccurately, and without any real guidance or basis in knowledge of the art) just because you want to. If you can't handle that reality, frankly, too bad. Deal with it.



shorinfighter said:


> Go on tell me how stupid I am, just like everyone else. No matter what happens, i will still practice martial arts. I dont care weather or not it is with an instructor or not. I will always learn martial arts. And I will learn ninjutsu.



Not without getting into a dojo, you won't. Again, that's reality. Deal with it. Throwing a tantrum doesn't make us want to help any more, you know... 



shorinfighter said:


> That's exactly what i've been trying to say!!!!!!!!



What is? Your comment came directly after JKS pointed out that the best you could try is to copy (emptily) the movements of videos, but still wouldn't be learning the art, as you'd miss all the aspects that make it work, and make it the art that it is. So you're saying that you've been trying to say that you can't learn the art after all?



shorinfighter said:


> All i want to know is what basic things i should practice. Not anything complicated that requires an instructor. I just want to know what the basic techniques used in ninjutsu are.  Kind of like how taikwondo focuses on kicking.  What does ninjutsu focus on?



Learning properly under an instructor. And before you think I'm being clever, that's really a big focus for the art. There is a tradition of Isshi Soden, which is direct transmission from teacher to student, ensuring that the art is passed on properly and correctly. And, one more time, without the guidance of an instructor to teach you the correct movement first, and continue to correct your performance of it, you can't learn it, and therefore can't have anything to practice. I mean, I could tell you that you should be practicing soku yaku keri, tsuki, jodan uke nagashi, ganseki nage, omote kote gyaku, and so on, but how are you doing any of those? Are you doing them correctly? How do you know? Without instruction, you don't have anything to practice. So you can't practice anything. That's, one more time, the reality. Don't like it? Too bad. I really want a Ferrari. I can't afford one... but I really want it. It's not fair that it's more expensive than other cars... so why can't I just have one? Because reality is that I can't afford one. You don't have an instructor, due to either there not being one around, or you not being able to afford instruction? Then you can't learn this art. Deal with it.



shorinfighter said:


> I am not asking for approval. I am asking for help that actually helps me. I am not asking for a lecture on how i cant learn without an instructor. Because instrustors are way too expensive for me right now. I just want to know what the focus of ninjutsu is and how i should practice it.



Isshi Soden. No instructor, no learning. The art is learnt through the experience of training with seniors. You don't have anything that would allow you to learn it, so you can't learn it. As you can't learn it, you have nothing to practice. 



shorinfighter said:


> Doesnt ninjutsu focus a lot on stealth and evasion and stuff like that?



Oh boy... no.

Listen, each of the ninjutsu organisations teach from a basis of between 7 and 26 different Ryu-ha (traditional systems). Each has a different focus and approach. Then you have the more "generic" modern arts created out of those traditional ones (such as Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu), but they are so broad in their scope that it's very, very difficult to narrow things down that way. Really, it comes down to getting to a school, and following what the teacher tells you to train. Initially it's going to be kihon, kamae, and ukemi (most likely.... there are exceptions to that)... but exactly which kihon, which kamae etc are going to be determined by what the particular organisation/instructor chooses... there can be quite a bit of variation there. And each needs to be learnt under an instructor who can guide you in how things should be done. Otherwise there's no point, as what you're doing isn't the art, so there's no benefit to training it.

But really, the reality is that you cannot learn without an instructor. Don't like that reality? Tough. It's reality. Deal with it.

Okay?


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## Blaze Dragon (Feb 6, 2013)

Quick question, found this thread interesting. How exactly does someone determine if a school is teaching real Ninjutsu or just slapping the label on there school? I mean take Toshindo from Quest center, which is only a 1 hours drive. In this case I thought he was classically trained in bujinkan and developed his art out of that. I think alot of people have the impression since Hayes was trained as a Shinobi that  he is teaching Ninjutsu. Then I hear the argument from some that Ninjutsu is dead and doesn't exist anymore that what is taught today is suppose to be an attempt to revive a dead are (not a direct quote just things I've read online and heard from others. Hearsay if you will, so I'm asking here.)


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## Chris Parker (Feb 6, 2013)

Wow.... okay, how long you got?

There's a lot to go into before we even get to the idea of what Toshindo teaches, firstly looking at exactly what ninjutsu is... and, believe it or not, that can be rather hotly debated.

In essence, there are two primary definitions. One is specific, and is used when referring to portions of larger curriculums, found within classical Japanese arts (Koryu). In this definition, ninjutsu refers to a range of information gathering and espionage skills, although the specifics change depending on the system itself (for example, one system might include scouting, another won't, one will focus on anti-espionage, another is more pro-active, some will have sabotage activities, others won't, and so on...).

The second definition is a modern one, and primarily stems from the popularity of organisations such as the Bujinkan, and is a more generic term, used to refer to arts who share some historical connection with the areas of Iga and Koga, as well as other arts, focused on combative methods (as distinct from the specific definition, which is a non-combative definition). Most famously, the Bujinkan was originally known as Togakure Ryu Ninjutsu Bujinkan Dojo (with Togakure Ryu Ninjutsu being the art taught at the Bujinkan Dojo). Over time, the Bujinkan name became the dominant one, for a variety of reasons.

From there, we need to look at this more "modern" usage of the term, and look at what is encompassed by it's use. Starting with the Bujinkan, the technical make-up of the organisation is derived from 9 individual systems, largely related (in two groupings, at least); Gyokko Ryu Kosshijutsu, Togakure Ryu Ninpo Taijutsu/Ninjutsu, Kukishinden Ryu Happo Biken, Takagi Yoshin Ryu Jutaijutsu, Shinden Fudo Ryu Dakentaijutsu, Koto Ryu Koppojutsu, Gikan Ryu Koppotaijutsu, Gyokushin Ryu Ninpo, and Kumogakure Ryu Ninpo Taijutsu. Interestingly, it's really only the first six that are used to provide the techniques, with Gikan, Kumogakure, and Gyokushin not really being taught. The reason Togakure Ryu was used as the original name is that it has the longest list of headmasters, giving it precedence over the others, and affording it the greatest position, although the bulk of the techniques and basics coming from other Ryu. Among these systems, there are questions as to the historical validity of a number of them, with others being very well accepted (for a number of reasons). Those that have some doubts include the ninjutsu traditions, which is where a lot of the controversy comes into it. That said, it's generally accepted that the only organisations/schools that have a legit claim to historical traditions of ninjutsu (other than the aforementioned Koryu systems) are the Bujinkan and schools that came from them (such as the Genbukan, the Jinenkan, and Steve Hayes' Toshindo). 

Each of the organisations have their own focus and approach... which can make it a little hard to see similarities at times. The Bujinkan, for instance, doesn't really teach any of the various systems it is made up of, instead, the focus is on a more free-form creative expression of martial arts, known as Budo Taijutsu. This expression is explored using the various techniques of the systems, but without necessarily looking at the individual aspects of the various systems (making a congruent whole). The Genbukan, although containing many of the same systems (and a large range of others) is focused on Tanemura's desire to preserve and protect the essence of Japanese traditional martial arts (Tanemura was formerly the Vice President of the Bujinkan, directly under Hatsumi. He left in 1984 to form the Genbukan for a range of reasons that aren't needed to go into here). As a result, the focus is on correct and proper transmission and movement. The Jinenkan is focused on teaching the various Ryu the way they are written in the scrolls that Manaka (head of the Jinenkan, and Hatsumi's first student) received from Hatsumi. Steve Hayes' Toshindo is more focused on modern application. 

Now, whether or not you feel that makes Toshindo "ninjutsu" is up to how you interpret the relationship and definition of the term. To me, it's a modern ninjutsu-derived system... although Hayes does still teach the traditional kata as well.

Did that help?


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## Koryu Rich (Feb 6, 2013)

shorinfighter said:


> I am not asking for approval. I am asking for help that actually helps me. I am not asking for a lecture on how i cant learn without an instructor. Because instrustors are way too expensive for me right now. I just want to know what the focus of ninjutsu is and how i should practice it.



You mention cost and that you feel instruction is way to expensive for you. If you want instruction then you will find you might have to make some adjustments, it's a case of looking at your leisure activities and deciding which are most important to you.

The same for distance. How far are you willing to travel?

As for what you can do training wise? Get down the gym and improve your fitness levels, improve your flexibility.

Start reading about the traditional Japanese arts and what they involve, what may be expected of you.

Also realise that the help that helps you may not necessarily be the help you want to hear.

Training without person to person guidance will give you a lot of bad habits that you will find very hard to get rid of when you do start training.

If you are so eager and determined to study then why so determined to go about it this way?


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## Blaze Dragon (Feb 6, 2013)

Chris Parker said:


> Wow.... okay, how long you got?
> 
> There's a lot to go into before we even get to the idea of what Toshindo teaches, firstly looking at exactly what ninjutsu is... and, believe it or not, that can be rather hotly debated.
> 
> ...



Alot actually, thanks


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## Instructor (Feb 6, 2013)

Shorin,

The cold reality is that sometimes in life we want things and cannot afford them.  I wanted to be a pilot once and even started taking lessons.  Learning martial arts, just about any martial art, is like spare change compared to learning to fly a plane.  We are talking $150.00 an hour...not a month... an hour.  One day I just decided, I can't afford to do this and I had to set it aside.  Maybe someday I will be able to try again but for now it's not possible.

Learning a martial art requires instruction.  Imagine learning to read on your own.  You could watch movies of other people reading.  You could stare at a book for hours and hours.  To others it might appear that you are reading.  But after a month of "practice" those letters and words would still be a complete mystery to you.

Some of the things folks have said on here may sting.  They are probably not what you wanted to hear.  But they are the truth.

I know you are enamored with ninjitsu (most of us were at one point) but you should just see what martial arts are in your area and within reach of your budget.  Learning a martial art in a classroom with a good teacher and other people is joy.  It's the closest thing to real happiness I have ever known.  It doesn't really matter all that much what style it is.  If you are learning and enjoying yourself then all is well.

If you are just flat broke (hey it happens) check local churches and community centers.  Often people teach martial arts in places like that as a charity.  I've run accross some pretty darn good clubs in those places.

I've also run into $200 a month ninjitsu schools that just didn't seem worth their salt to me.  I am not saying they are all that way but like any art you'll have good and bad clubs.

Your best asset right now is to keep an open mind.  Sometimes in life the journey we are on is more important than the journey we wish we were on.

Respectfully,
Jon


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## Brian R. VanCise (Feb 6, 2013)

To the origional poster if you are not really willing to put forth the effort, time and money necessary to learn a system then really you are wasting your time and effort.  Your also wasting our time here.  Find a local instructor, go and train and learn properly.  If you try to "teach yourself" then you will end up with crap.  Trust me I have seen it more than a few times and your previous karate experience will not help you a bit.  Find an instructor and learn properly.  Otherwise head into fantasyland!  Sorry to be so blunt!


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## shorinfighter (Feb 6, 2013)

I thank everybody for their helpful advice. I also apologise if i came off as rude i meant no disrespect. I will look for instructors in my area and until i find one i will practice the katas i learned from when i was in karate. But i will no longer try to learn over the internet.


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## shorinfighter (Feb 6, 2013)

shorinfighter said:


> I thank everybody for their helpful advice. I also apologise if i came off as rude i meant no disrespect. I will look for instructors in my area and until i find one i will practice the katas i learned from when i was in karate. But i will no longer try to learn over the internet.


   but i will not try to teach myself. I will only practice the techniques i learned properly while i was in karate to get better at them.


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## jks9199 (Feb 6, 2013)

shorinfighter said:


> I thank everybody for their helpful advice. I also apologise if i came off as rude i meant no disrespect. I will look for instructors in my area and until i find one i will practice the katas i learned from when i was in karate. But i will no longer try to learn over the internet.



That's a great attitude and idea.  

When I first got involved formally in the martial arts, I was really interested in learning ninjutsu.  I owned most of Stephen Hayes's books, watched every ninja movie out there (anyone else remember Sho Kusugi...  or the American Ninja movies with Michael Dudikoff?)  But I couldn't find it in the area.  (This was back in the pre-internet era...)  A few friends of mine almost literally tripped over this martial arts club in the area.  The price was affordable, it was being taught somewhere I could get to... so I gave it a try.  That was more than 25 years ago... and I'm still training and learning Bando.  So...  keep your eyes open to other possibilities, too.  You never know what you might find.


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## Chris Parker (Feb 7, 2013)

shorinfighter said:


> I thank everybody for their helpful advice. I also apologise if i came off as rude i meant no disrespect. I will look for instructors in my area and until i find one i will practice the katas i learned from when i was in karate. But i will no longer try to learn over the internet.





shorinfighter said:


> but i will not try to teach myself. I will only practice the techniques i learned properly while i was in karate to get better at them.



Good to hear.


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## Koryu Rich (Feb 7, 2013)

shorinfighter said:


> I thank everybody for their helpful advice. I also apologise if i came off as rude i meant no disrespect. I will look for instructors in my area and until i find one i will practice the katas i learned from when i was in karate. But i will no longer try to learn over the internet.



Practicing the kata you know, providing you know them well enough, will be of benefit to you as far as Karate goes but be aware that you *may* be drilling movement that could be counter to what you wish to study latter. If you intend to practice Karate still then you of course still need to practice but if not then there are probably other things you can do.

You will need to be able to compartmentalise the different ways of moving and thinking that you will come across. Having one leak into another most of the time is not a good thing.

you have mentioned this interest in Ninjutsu, do you know what is involved in the training? The various organisations and what to keep away from?


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## J W (Feb 7, 2013)

jks9199 said:


> That's a great attitude and idea.
> 
> When I first got involved formally in the martial arts, I was really interested in learning ninjutsu.  I owned most of Stephen Hayes's books, watched every ninja movie out there (anyone else remember Sho Kusugi...  or the American Ninja movies with Michael Dudikoff?)  But I couldn't find it in the area.  (This was back in the pre-internet era...)  A few friends of mine almost literally tripped over this martial arts club in the area.  The price was affordable, it was being taught somewhere I could get to... so I gave it a try.  That was more than 25 years ago... and I'm still training and learning Bando.  So...  keep your eyes open to other possibilities, too.  You never know what you might find.



Same here, I was obsessed with ninjas when I was younger and read all the Stephen K. Hayes books I could find. There were no ninjutsu schools anywhere near me, though, so when a TKD school opened within bike-riding distance, I signed up. I spent the next 5 or 6 years with that school, and I really enjoyed it and got pretty good at it.

So shorinfighter, I wouldn't rule out other arts. Sounds like you don't know too much about ninjutsu, anyway, so how do you even know that it is what you really want to do? There may be other schools nearby that offer something you'd really enjoy.


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## Omar B (Feb 7, 2013)

I was into ninjas too as a kid.  Batman mostly though, ended up in Karate.  Even did a year of Bujinkan not 2 summers ago and I've realized, karate is where I belong.


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## shinbushi (Feb 7, 2013)

do judo dirt cheap.


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## shorinfighter (Feb 7, 2013)

Koryu Rich said:


> Practicing the kata you know, providing you know them well enough, will be of benefit to you as far as Karate goes but be aware that you *may* be drilling movement that could be counter to what you wish to study latter. If you intend to practice Karate still then you of course still need to practice but if not then there are probably other things you can do.
> 
> You will need to be able to compartmentalise the different ways of moving and thinking that you will come across. Having one leak into another most of the time is not a good thing.
> 
> you have mentioned this interest in Ninjutsu, do you know what is involved in the training? The various organisations and what to keep away from?


 I do not know anything about ninjutsu. There are things that i think i know but i am probably wrong.   
I wish i could have continued karate. But i moved away and had to quit. I think i might join a TKD school. But there are no karate schools in my area, which saddens me.


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## Diogenes (Sep 19, 2014)

Hey, wasn't the whole concept of ninjutsu a martial art started by "practicing at home" in _isolated_ villages of pre-Edo period Japan?  And weren't all modern _ryu_ of ninjutsu or otherwise all based off the ideas of a single originator?  If you honestly think you can't learn something on your own, where is your individuality?  Do what you want *shorinfighter*, others don't have the right to judge the way you learn anything.   That's up to you.  Sure, an instructor will help, but the fact that whether you will actually learn anything is up to you; no matter the manner.


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## Badger1777 (Sep 19, 2014)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't 'ninjutsu' simply 'the art of invisibility', and not in itself a combat style (although ninja of olden times were trained in combat techniques).

This is an art of hiding really, I guess that's why Hollywood created the 'Shadow Warrior'.

You can of course practice escape and evasion techniques without an instructor, but you still need someome to test if you are really making yourself effectively concealed. Its no good just reading a book that says "scrunch up close to a tree and nobody will see you", and then going to your local park dressed in black and hugging a tree. People will just think you're a hippy



Diogenes said:


> Hey, wasn't the whole concept of ninjutsu a martial art started by "practicing at home" in _isolated_ villages of pre-Edo period Japan?  And weren't all modern _ryu_ of ninjutsu or otherwise all based off the ideas of a single originator?  If you honestly think you can't learn something on your own, where is your individuality?  Do what you want *shorinfighter*, others don't have the right to judge the way you learn anything.   That's up to you.  Sure, an instructor will help, but the fact that whether you will actually learn anything is up to you; no matter the manner.



You can make stuff up as you go along, if you don't care who gets hurt.


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## Chris Parker (Sep 20, 2014)

Uh&#8230; 



Diogenes said:


> Hey, wasn't the whole concept of ninjutsu a martial art started by "practicing at home" in _isolated_ villages of pre-Edo period Japan?


 
No.



Diogenes said:


> And weren't all modern _ryu_ of ninjutsu or otherwise all based off the ideas of a single originator?


 
No.



Diogenes said:


> If you honestly think you can't learn something on your own, where is your individuality?


 
"Learn something"? Sure. Learn a specific thing with no knowledge, no frame of reference, no basis, no guidance, and no ability to perceive where you're doing things incorrectly (which would be in everything being done)? Not a chance.

"Individuality" has nothing to do with this.



Diogenes said:


> Do what you want *shorinfighter*, others don't have the right to judge the way you learn anything.


 
No-one was judging. We were giving him the insight of reality.

I'll put it this way&#8230; let's say that what he wanted to do was to learn to speak French&#8230; but had never learnt any of it. He'd learnt Russian as a kid&#8230; but not French. He's never been to France, didn't know anyone who spoke French, and had never seen a French movie. There are no French teachers around him, and he doesn't know anything about how words are pronounced, the grammar, or anything else to do with the language&#8230; put simply, he wouldn't be able to learn French. This was the same thing.



Diogenes said:


> That's up to you.


 
Which is what we said. But we also pointed out that, if he wanted to go down that path, not to confuse whatever the hell he'd be doing with actually learning/training in, or having anything to do with "Ninjutsu".



Diogenes said:


> Sure, an instructor will help, but the fact that whether you will actually learn anything is up to you; no matter the manner.



Yeah&#8230; that's great&#8230; but besides the point. If he wants to learn anything at all, he needs an instructor. There's no way around that. 

But I gotta ask&#8230; what's your reason for posting this all here? The mistakes in understanding of what was going on is interesting in and of itself, but this conversation was over a year and a half ago&#8230; you've joined the forum, and this is your first post? Your profile states no art, no rank&#8230; what's the agenda?



Badger1777 said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't 'ninjutsu' simply 'the art of invisibility', and not in itself a combat style (although ninja of olden times were trained in combat techniques).



No, "ninjutsu" does not mean "the art of invisibility"&#8230; and, while it is not a combat style, it gets a lot more complicated than that&#8230; 



Badger1777 said:


> This is an art of hiding really, I guess that's why Hollywood created the 'Shadow Warrior'.



Hmm&#8230; kinda, but no?



Badger1777 said:


> You can of course practice escape and evasion techniques without an instructor, but you still need someome to test if you are really making yourself effectively concealed. Its no good just reading a book that says "scrunch up close to a tree and nobody will see you", and then going to your local park dressed in black and hugging a tree. People will just think you're a hippy



Yeah&#8230; really not much relevance to the context being used here&#8230; and there's a difference between training what you think a skill-set is and training in a particular approach to a skill-set.



Badger1777 said:


> You can make stuff up as you go along, if you don't care who gets hurt.



If you're intending, or wanting, to train/learn a particular system/approach, then making stuff up is really pointless. After all, if you're making it up, then you're not actually doing the genuine thing (by definition), so why would you bother thinking that you are?


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## Dirty Dog (Sep 20, 2014)

Diogenes said:


> Hey, wasn't the whole concept of ninjutsu a martial art started by "practicing at home" in _isolated_ villages of pre-Edo period Japan? And weren't all modern _ryu_ of ninjutsu or otherwise all based off the ideas of a single originator? If you honestly think you can't learn something on your own, where is your individuality? Do what you want *shorinfighter*, others don't have the right to judge the way you learn anything. That's up to you. Sure, an instructor will help, but the fact that whether you will actually learn anything is up to you; no matter the manner.



Can you learn to fight without an instructor? Sure. Get in lots of fights and see what works for you. It's painful, but you will learn something.

You cannot learn any specific martial arts system without an instructor. How can you possibly imagine that you'd somehow come up with exactly the same way of doing not just some, but everything in the system, as those who originated it? For systems that include technique drills (kata, partner drills, etc.) how can you possibly imagine that you could come up with all the same drills as those who developed the system.


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## Fritz (Oct 6, 2014)

I'll take the bait and throw in a reply here since it has been a while since I replied to such a question and I will approach the original poster with the idea that they are sincere.

Ultimately to learn this art (or any Japanese martial art) you are going to need to find an instructor- a real person who has experience and a connection to the art you are interested in. Here is why:

Much of the art is more than a technique- take a wrist lock as an example. You can probably learn the technique online and have something that kind of works by practicing it with some friends, let&#8217;s go out on a limb and say that this is possible. If it is, then you only have half of the &#8220;technique&#8221;- what you can see and practice. 

The other half you will be missing- the part of what it feels like to have it done to you, and just how the wrist lock affects your movement, etc. This is a form of transmission that needs to be experienced though your instructor applying the technique to you- in addition to of course correcting your physical mistakes. One needs to experience the art so it can mature inside you, which will guide your movement moving ahead in your training.

So ultimately, you need an instructor for this, which is why many of the first replies are &#8220;ask your teacher&#8221;. I&#8217;m sure many of the posters express this as they have replied to this question dozens of times more eloquently then my response and are quite burnt out from it, and the fact that it could have been answered with a simple search of the forum.

But back to the OP.

You need a teacher- can&#8217;t find one right now, then your martial goal should be setting your life situation up so you can study directly under a teacher. 

If training is so far away that you can&#8217;t make it at least once a week, then what about finding a training place where you can visit once a month? If that is not possible, then what about a seminar every other month or so? Get to a teacher, have them show you some kamae, ukemi, the san shin no kata, and the kihon happo and then drill the heck out of this at home on your own- make what they show you #1. 

If you can&#8217;t do that right now due to family, work, or school then prepare yourself for it- build up your endurance and flexibility, and work to get to a place where you can visit and train. 

Enthusiasm for the art makes us want to have it all right now, to learn it as fast as possible, and when that isn&#8217;t possible it can be painful- there is a lesson in that- can you endure to the point where you can find yourself training regularly under a teacher. 

Here is one last option which may not apply to the OP, but might have value for future questions vs. searches. 

If you are a university or college student and training is not available where you are going to school- start a club! Get some of the school activity fees to bring in an instructor and show you and the group the basics (kihon happo, etc.) and then practice those. Get that instructor in once or twice a semester plus people to work out with each week is a great resource to take advantage of.


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