# Steve Stewart:Brown to 4th black .. Instantly



## kkbb (Nov 18, 2003)

This is the second part of a previous thread..probabley better on it's own

I heard a story about Mr. Stewart that he went from 3rd brown to 4th black (promoted by Mr. Donavan) when he opened his school then tested with the WKKA (who took his 4th rank at face value) using Orange belt techniques. Now I hear that those KYUs that Stewart tested between 1999 and 2002 may not have legit ranks (http://www.wkka.org scroll down to bottom of page) with the WKKA. Anybody got more? Am I right or wrong?


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## lvwhitebir (Nov 19, 2003)

> _Originally posted by kkbb _
> *I heard a story about ....  Now I hear ...*



Tread lightly...  Your accusing someone on a public forum with no evidence.  I don't know the person, but I think this is foul play without some sort of supporting evidence.

WhiteBirch


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## arnisador (Nov 19, 2003)

> _Originally posted by kkbb _
> *(promoted by Mr. Donavan)*



Which Mr. Donavan (Donovan?) is this? It's a fairly common name.


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## kkbb (Nov 20, 2003)

> _Originally posted by lvwhitebir _
> *Tread lightly...  Your accusing someone on a public forum with no evidence.  I don't know the person, but I think this is foul play without some sort of supporting evidence.
> 
> WhiteBirch *


I'm sure an e-mail to the wkka would shed some light on the belt gradings....

I'm not accusing anyone of any thing.... I'm relaying a story... that I hope will return some facts...


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## kkbb (Nov 20, 2003)

> _Originally posted by arnisador _
> *Which Mr. Donavan (Donovan?) is this? It's a fairly common name. *


This Mr. Mike Donovan (www.olympickarate.on.ca) in London On.


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## arnisador (Nov 20, 2003)

He's got some very young-looking senseis on the Staff page.


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## kkbb (Nov 20, 2003)

> _Originally posted by arnisador _
> *He's got some very young-looking senseis on the Staff page. *


Interesting isn't it?


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## Datu Tim Hartman (Nov 20, 2003)

> _Originally posted by arnisador _
> *Which Mr. Donavan (Donovan?) is this? It's a fairly common name. *



One in the same.


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## kkbb (Dec 30, 2003)

From other thread:


> _Originally posted by Rob Broad _
> *He is very money oriented.  A directly from Mr. Donovan's mouth to my ear it was Blue Belt to 3rd Black. *



I was wondering how true it was.  I wonder what his students would think if they knew?


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## clapping_tiger (Jan 30, 2004)

It is something to have someone with the tittle "Sensei" at that age. Makes me sick.


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## theletch1 (Jan 30, 2004)

The moment I was told that the "sensei"(little s) would be along as soon as he got out of daycare I'd be outta there.

Does anyone know if there is an Olympic in NYC, trying to verify someones credentials.


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## KenpoGirl (Feb 2, 2004)

> _Originally posted by theletch1 _
> *The moment I was told that the "sensei"(little s) would be along as soon as he got out of daycare I'd be outta there.
> 
> Does anyone know if there is an Olympic in NYC, trying to verify someones credentials. *



If there is it's an unrelated company.  Olympic Karate only had 3 schools in London, ON and a 4th just outside of town.

Unless things have changed in the 2 years since I've been there.

Dot
:asian:


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## theletch1 (Feb 2, 2004)

> Unless things have changed in the 2 years since I've been there.


 Sorry, should have clarified... this would have been close on to 15 years ago and it would have been kenpo.


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## ThirdDegreeBurn (Feb 2, 2004)

I don't believe those bottom two, at least, should be called Sensei. They may, or may not, be instructors (I should hope it would be only the children's classes), but calling someone so young "Sensei" before they've even hit puberty seems to me to be an insult to the word.


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## theletch1 (Feb 3, 2004)

> _Originally posted by ThirdDegreeBurn _
> *I don't believe those bottom two, at least, should be called Sensei. They may, or may not, be instructors (I should hope it would be only the children's classes), but calling someone so young "Sensei" before they've even hit puberty seems to me to be an insult to the word. *


 I agree.  The word Sensei has always denoted a sense of experience, time put in and a kind of "paid their dues" kinda thing.  These kids are barely out of pre-school and are carrying a title that should, IMO, be reserved for someone who has put in enough time to truly understand the more esoteric aspects of what they are teaching.  Yeah, I know, it's just a title.  Still, it seems to drop the significance of the hard work put in by those that have truly earned the title.


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## Jimmy&quot;TheBear&quot; (Feb 3, 2004)

quote: Originally posted by Rob Broad 
He is very money oriented. A directly from Mr. Donovan's mouth to my ear it was Blue Belt to 3rd Black. 


I don't think anyone that did this, is much concerned about what his students are or the use of the word sensei.


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## marshallbd (Mar 23, 2004)

kkbb said:
			
		

> This Mr. Mike Donovan (www.olympickarate.on.ca) in London On.


When do those young ones teach? After their homework is done and before thier 8:30 bed time? :asian:


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## dmdfromhamilton (Jan 8, 2005)

Ummm yeah sombody under 18 with a sensie title makes me sick. they can be instructors but a sensie is more it is a guide on a journey and is usually a trusted individual. a sensie needs to be able to give advice. 18 is very young for a sensei imo because they should have gotten some experience in the really world before being one :snipe2: could always but him out of our minds unless we want to keep him around for comedic relief?


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## Doc (Jun 27, 2005)

kkbb said:
			
		

> This is the second part of a previous thread..probabley better on it's own
> 
> I heard a story about Mr. Stewart that he went from 3rd brown to 4th black (promoted by Mr. Donavan) when he opened his school then tested with the WKKA (who took his 4th rank at face value) using Orange belt techniques. Now I hear that those KYUs that Stewart tested between 1999 and 2002 may not have legit ranks (http://www.wkka.org scroll down to bottom of page) with the WKKA. Anybody got more? Am I right or wrong?


Interestingly, most recently Mr. Stewart has taken to claiming he teaches SL-4 *AND* 5. And while I appreciate the compliment, no one outside of my lineage can claim SL-4 by name. Of course others may claim they perform the same principles, as  I but SL-4 is  and has been for over a decade. Besides how can you claim a 5th distance in kenpo, (which is what he claims he does), when Ed Parker only designated four. Should make for an interesting story.


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## searcher (Jun 28, 2005)

Why do all of these guys try to sell themselves as having been special forces?   So sad.


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## rupton (Jun 29, 2005)

arnisador said:
			
		

> He's got some very young-looking senseis on the Staff page.


AAAAAAAA, yeah! definitely.


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## DavidCC (Jun 29, 2005)

Doc said:
			
		

> Interestingly, most recently Mr. Stewart has taken to claiming he teaches SL-4 *AND* 5. ...


"oh yeah, 220, 221 , whatever it takes" LOL 

or, even better

"it goes to eleven, it's one louder"


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## Dan G (Jun 29, 2005)

ThirdDegreeBurn said:
			
		

> I don't believe those bottom two, at least, should be called Sensei. They may, or may not, be instructors (I should hope it would be only the children's classes), but calling someone so young "Sensei" before they've even hit puberty seems to me to be an insult to the word.


I agree, it is quite literally an insult to the word "Sensei". "Sensei" when written conventionally in Japanese characters carries the literal meaning of "Earlier Born". Whilst the word "Sensei" is used more broadly in Japan for persons who teach, or who have special knowledge or status (doctors, lawyers, experts in a particular hobby or pastime etc) it would be only be used towards someone pre-pubescent for the purposes of sarcasm or comedy!

To call oneself "Sensei" is the height of presumption in Japan, no matter how old or learned one is. It is an honorific title that is given out of respect and courtesy, but cannot ever be assumed, insisted on, or ever used in reference to oneself. (On the other hand to omit the title "Sensei" can be exceptionally rude...)

By way of example, when teaching Junior High in Japan the single most insulting experience I had was when a child called me "Dan-San" (i.e. Mr. Dan, fine if used by an aquaintance unconnected with my work, but a definite no no from a pupil) rather than the absolutely obligatory "Dan-Sensei" in front of the class, knowing that I couldn't correct him, or even show irritation without making a fool of myself. (Smart kid - and I secretly respected the bad attitude, even if he was a nightmare to teach).

The only dafter use of Japanese language in martial arts taught in the West that I can think of is the word "Kiai" (loosely translated as "shout"). As an instruction it is fine, and arguably conveys greater depth of meaning than when translated into English, but if it would be plain bizaare to watch a class of adults marching up and down a room bellowing out "Shout!" at the top of their voice it is even weirder to see people do exactly the same, but with a lousy accent in a language they neither speak nor understand... (and grunting Ossssu! is equally freaky... on a par with screaming "Dude!" or "Allright mate!" when doing techniques) :erg: 

I understand the value of respecting the cultural origins of an art, but using words from another language without understanding the meaning, or often the complex underlying social codes and values behind them ends up making a mockery of the whole exercise.

IMHO one of the best things SGM Parker did for martial arts was having the confidence to teach exclusively in English... so much smarter to concentrate on the message and not the medium!

rant over,

respectfully,:asian: 

Dan


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## MisterMike (Jul 28, 2005)

Dan G said:
			
		

> IMHO one of the best things SGM Parker did for martial arts was having the confidence to teach exclusively in English... so much smarter to concentrate on the message and not the medium!
> 
> rant over,
> 
> ...



I think he did that for his own system, not all of martial arts. He wanted an American version of what has been for centuries a culture and product of the East.

Not only isn't there foreign words, but no bowing, addressing teachers properly (most schools go back to what you referred to as "Mr. Mike," "Mr. Dan," etc.

I do not think he "added" anything by the way of discipline to the Martial Arts, but he certainly created an American version of it all.


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