# Really weird attitudes towards a newbie.



## louise 1 (Oct 23, 2011)

Hi everyone :wavey:

This is my very first post. I just want to share something that happened to me at a martial art club recently to see if any one else has had a similar experience.

I've been keen to learn this particular art for ages but only recently have moved into an area that has a club. So I was really looking forwards to my first lesson. Unfortunately when I got there the instructor was pretty unwelcoming and made a point of saying to the class that he wasn't intending to slow down any of his teaching for anyone who couldn't keep up. (I was the only newbie there so it didn't seem too much of a stretch to feel that he was aiming that at me) :uhohh: 

I decided to give it another go though and went to following week only to find that this time the unfriendliness came from some of the other students instead. I've actually been put right off going to another session purely because of this attitude. 

I'm a total beginner and was finding the lessons quite hard to keep up with as i've not done anything like this before. I was trying my best though and don't generally have any problems with getting on with people. So i'm a bit confused as to what that was all about.

Anyone else had something like this happen to them when when trying out a new martial art?


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## Bill Mattocks (Oct 23, 2011)

I have not; and I'm sorry that you are.  My dojo is extremely welcoming, and people work at their own pace.  I wish I could offer you advice; if it were me I guess I would consider talking to the instructor about it and if that doesn't produce results; going elsewhere.  Life's too short for stuff like that.  If I could not find the style I wanted to learn locally, I'd look at another style; but perhaps that's just me.

And welcome to MT.  We like newbies here.  Make yourself at home, and good luck on your martial arts journey.


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## louise 1 (Oct 23, 2011)

Thanks for the advice, much appreciated


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## Sukerkin (Oct 23, 2011)

Aye that is a most atypical attitude to find in any martial arts school.  If it flows from the head of the school then there is not much to do except adopt the point of view that it is your money they are losing and go to a school where the style might not be your first choice but the atmosphere is more welcoming.

What is the art by the way?


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## Tez3 (Oct 23, 2011)

We love having new people join us and most places I know do as well, so frankly I don't think you should go back, go find a place that is welcoming and will help you. You wil llearn very little in such a hostile atmosphere and I'd worry you'd be hurt. 'Shop' around until you find a place you like, with sympathetic, competent instructors and friendly students, that matters far more than the style as you will learn far more in a good club/school/gym. 
Welcome to MT, and please let us know how you get on.


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## seasoned (Oct 23, 2011)

Greetings and welcome to MT. Many awesome people here, and I think you will fit in very nicely.


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## jks9199 (Oct 23, 2011)

Sometimes, a class has clicked and trained together for a long time, and just isn't comfortable dealing with a new student popping in.  My teacher "closed" my class for about a year once, because he decided to focus on training us with some advanced material and new students would have been problems.  It took us many years to earn the trust for those lessons... and we don't share that material lightly.

In another situation -- if you try to join a very traditional dojo, you may well almost be discouraged.  It's not that they don't want new blood; they simply don't care.  They don't solicit students.  They do look for people to join the family and preserve the tradition.  Unless they decide you meet that description -- they don't want you there.  I can't find the article right now -- but Dave Lowry wrote an often-referenced piece about it.  

And, sometimes, you just have a club or class built around a particular sort of interest that doesn't welcome outsiders.  I might be training with a bunch of cops; we don't care who comes, but we're going to be training for real situations.  And a lot of people just aren't ready or willing to do that sort of training.

In the end -- if they're not making you welcome, and you don't like being there... don't go.  You might ask the teacher if perhaps there's a beginner's session around that you could join.


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## Zealot (Oct 23, 2011)

Sometimes its just an ego thing also. You must forgive the instructor for his failings, we are all fallible. That being said I want to say that as an instructor, it is our job to lead people into the art itself. If he was not willing to slow down his training schedule, you might want to find a different instructor that teaches at different levels. Good luck in your search and its quite common to feel the odd man out when coming into a new dojo.


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## Cyriacus (Oct 23, 2011)

Heres the thing - If you slow down the Class for ONE Newbie who might not even like it, all the other Students suffer.

You just need to go there a couple of times, and when its clear that you actually want to learn the Art, hell probably put you over with some other Higher Ranks to build you up to a level from which you can actively partake in Class.

Remember that you are one Person, who may not even stay. He is an Instructor with numerous Students.
Be Patient


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## Zealot (Oct 23, 2011)

In the system I study, there is that Senior and Junior relationship. Even if the training doesnt slow down, you have someone there to help you along. Like I said I would look for a lower entry level class, or look to see if one of the senior students is willing to work with you to catch you up. This has the added benefit of creating a relationship with an already established student and getting you into the door in social situations.


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## Tez3 (Oct 24, 2011)

If the instructor and students don't want beginners there it should have been made clear before someone tries to join in, it should be discussed with the person who wants to join the class. To allow someone new in then treat them badly so that they leave isn't right.


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## oftheherd1 (Oct 24, 2011)

That is unusual.  You still haven't said what art you are talking about.  As some have said, it is possible you are simply being tested ahead of time to see how much you want to learn.  Rather unusual, but possible.  I would give it a couple or three weeks.  Then it I didn't find the art worth the lack of early acceptance, I would move on.


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## shesulsa (Oct 24, 2011)

Sucks being the FNG.

I'm with everyone else here - ask if there is a beginner's class. If that class is supposed to be for everyone, I'd suggest asking the head instructor once - ONCE - who you are to seek help from, repeat the answer, and try carrying forward.  Seek your answers by asking questions and if you continue to feel ostracized ... move on. As Bill said, life's too short.

Good luck!


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## softstylist (Oct 24, 2011)

Without knowing the art or school that you speak of its hard to say why you are being treated like this but as others have stated ther could be some legitmate reason for it but there could be some bad ones too. I would also say though that a experienced instructor should be able to teach on many levels to many differant people almost at the same time using subtle methods of approach but that is another subject altogether. I would follow the advice of the other respondants in this thread as there advice is pretty sound for the new guy.


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## Touch Of Death (Oct 24, 2011)

louise 1 said:


> Hi everyone :wavey:
> 
> This is my very first post. I just want to share something that happened to me at a martial art club recently to see if any one else has had a similar experience.
> 
> ...


Just off the top of my head, I would say the instructor is teaching up. This means they are expecting you to try as hard as you can, and not expect any special treatment. He has a responsibility to keep the whole class happy and hopes that you will just blend in with out a fuss. 
Sean


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## Jenna (Oct 24, 2011)

louise 1 said:


> Unfortunately when I got there the instructor was pretty unwelcoming and made a point of saying to the class that he wasn't intending to slow down any of his teaching for anyone who couldn't keep up. (I was the only newbie there so it didn't seem too much of a stretch to feel that he was aiming that at me) :uhohh:


...Or you may have simply misinterpreted, especially if you had never met the instructor before or know their methods.

I think the instructor comments are not unfair for any teacher.  In this case, just because an instructor does not wish to slow down their tempo, we cannot automatically assume they are singling us out.  If we cannot keep up, we simply drop out, break for breath and hydration, and rejoin.

You may be picking up intentional bad vibes (which I have to say, I have not encountered on my travels since I visited the Cobra Kai Dojo some decades ago and had my leg swept) or you may just be hyper-sensitive.  

I would say one thing, irrespective of your situation here, that in ANY martial art, perseverance is a REQUISITE.

Your options are simple 1. do not return there and find a training place that feels to you more sympathetic and understanding. 2. persevere there until you can be absolutely certain you have not simply misunderstood the instructor, then goto 1. if you have not, or 3. ask the instructor what the deal is and are you being tested just like they do in old Jean Claude Van Damme movies until you either break or become a world-beater, or were they simply going through a bad time of the month.

Only _you _know what is what here, instructors are people too.  And people can be nice, or have bad days, or be complete *******s.  Good luck though in settling to a place that is just right for you.  Do not be deterred.  There are plenty of schools and clubs.  One will be fitting for you.  And welcome to MT, I hope you let us know what happens, wishes, Jenna x.


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## seasoned (Oct 24, 2011)

Everybody was a newbie at one time. The norm is NOT to treat them bad, but take on the challenge of passing on to them all the benefits of training, while you watch them grow. Martial arts are suppose to build a person up, and tear them down.................


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## seasoned (Oct 24, 2011)

seasoned said:


> Everybody was a newbie at one time. The norm is NOT to treat them bad, but take on the challenge of passing on to them all the benefits of training, while you watch them grow. Martial arts are suppose to build a person up, *and* tear them down.................


My intent was to use "_not_" instead of *and *  "*and* tear them down".


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## Cyriacus (Oct 24, 2011)

What amuses me is that Two People approved anyway


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## Touch Of Death (Oct 24, 2011)

Cyriacus said:


> What amuses me is that Two People approved anyway


I just need more info. 
Sean


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## Steve (Oct 24, 2011)

Gearing an entire class to one new student isn't the way to go.  But making the new student feel unwelcome is just bad business.


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## Sukerkin (Oct 24, 2011)

Cyriacus said:


> What amuses me is that Two People approved anyway



In my case it's because I understood what he meant to write, as I am sure did Tez and Gran; so I approved the spirit of the post rather than the literal letter of it .


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## granfire (Oct 24, 2011)

Yes, MA take staying power and a willingness to work hard and move up.

However, you have to learn how to walk before you fly first. Everybody (even the instructor) was at one time a beginner.


There is slowing the class down and there is running rough shot over the new kid. 

If there is no beginner class, it should be noted as such. There is just no way that a raw beginner can be thrown in with the advanced students and be expected to hack it. Not possible.

There is that learning curve that slows things down, the limitation and lack of muscle memory. A _good_ instructor will take care that the basics are taught and done so correctly. 

Naturally there are people who do not wish to deal with new flesh, either by design or by ability. But that ought to be in the not so fine print. 

As Senpai one also has the obligation to help the lower guys along. Most ranking systems require a certain amount of teaching to advance. 

Personally I always loved it when we had new people come in (talking adult classes here). It is rewarding when you can help somebody out to 'get it', along with a little stroke of the ego when you think you are all left arms and legs trying an advanced technique and the newb asks you if you ever were as uncoordinated as they are. :lol: 
Or taking them along for the first sparring session. Making sure they have a good time and come back for more! 


Also, a skilled instructor can hold class with different ranks and have each perform drills at their level. Yes, it takes a bit of time to tell everybody a different set of exercises, but it can be done, even in a class that lasts under an hour and nobody feels cheated!


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## granfire (Oct 24, 2011)

Sukerkin said:


> In my case it's because I understood what he meant to write, as I am sure did Tez and Gran; so I approved the spirit of the post rather than the literal letter of it .



I had the benefit of reading the correction


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## Tez3 (Oct 24, 2011)

Sukerkin said:


> In my case it's because I understood what he meant to write, as I am sure did Tez and Gran; so I approved the spirit of the post rather than the literal letter of it .



 If you've been taught proper English you can understand what people mean even with spelling or grammar mistakes!


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## granfire (Oct 24, 2011)

Tez3 said:


> If you've been taught proper English you can understand what people mean even with spelling or grammar mistakes!



:lfao:

we go with that!


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## Nomad (Oct 24, 2011)

Cyriacus said:


> Heres the thing - If you slow down the Class for ONE Newbie who might not even like it, all the other Students suffer.
> 
> You just need to go there a couple of times, and when its clear that you actually want to learn the Art, hell probably put you over with some other Higher Ranks to build you up to a level from which you can actively partake in Class.
> 
> ...



While I agree with this in principle, it's not that difficult to assign a senior student to go over some basics with a newcomer on the side while the main class is doing advanced material that is likely to be well beyond them.  To avoid this being a burden on the person giving up "their" training, simply rotate the person helping out the newcomer every 10-15 minutes. 

IMHO, the instructor should spend a little time personally with the new student (for instance, while the rest of the class is working a particular drill), and there are likely parts of the class that would be fine for him/her to do alongside the class (warmup, basics, etc).  

Making no allowances whatsoever for the newcomer simply ensures that they don't return.  That may indeed be the intention here, or the instructor may just have poor customer relation skills.


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## Steve (Oct 24, 2011)

Tez3 said:


> If you've been taught proper English you can understand what people mean even with spelling or grammar mistakes!


So, that explains why I understood it.  I'm not sure I understand the connection to you and Sukerkin, though.


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## jks9199 (Oct 24, 2011)

jks9199 said:


> In another situation -- if you try to join a very traditional dojo, you may well almost be discouraged.  It's not that they don't want new blood; they simply don't care.  They don't solicit students.  They do look for people to join the family and preserve the tradition.  Unless they decide you meet that description -- they don't want you there.  I can't find the article right now -- but Dave Lowry wrote an often-referenced piece about it.



Someone was kind enough to link the article in a different thread:  So you want to join the ryu...


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## jks9199 (Oct 24, 2011)

Nomad said:


> While I agree with this in principle, it's not that difficult to assign a senior student to go over some basics with a newcomer on the side while the main class is doing advanced material that is likely to be well beyond them.  To avoid this being a burden on the person giving up "their" training, simply rotate the person helping out the newcomer every 10-15 minutes.
> 
> IMHO, the instructor should spend a little time personally with the new student (for instance, while the rest of the class is working a particular drill), and there are likely parts of the class that would be fine for him/her to do alongside the class (warmup, basics, etc).
> 
> Making no allowances whatsoever for the newcomer simply ensures that they don't return.  That may indeed be the intention here, or the instructor may just have poor customer relation skills.



This is how I do it.  We teach all students in one class.  New students warm up with the rest of class, get taught some things in line, and get pulled out for others.  They participate along with everyone else depending on the lesson and where they stand.  Sometimes, they'll spend the entire class pulled out to work on basics, other classes they might never be pulled aside.  Everyone is expected to learn the class material at an appropriate level to their own understanding.

But some people don't like that; they'd rather learn in a class that's all at about the same skill level...

It's also possible that the comment wasn't at all aimed at the beginner -- but at someone else who has been holding up the class and shouldn't be...  And just unfortunate timing that they had a new student.  That's why the OP should talk to the teacher.  It may be they really don't want new students.  Or it may be that he was frustrated with having had to teach the same lesson 10 times because someone isn't practicing, and it had nothing to do with the OP.  Or that it's been a while, and they've just forgotten about how to bring new students in...


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## Cyriacus (Oct 24, 2011)

Nomad said:


> While I agree with this in principle, it's not that difficult to assign a senior student to go over some basics with a newcomer on the side while the main class is doing advanced material that is likely to be well beyond them.  To avoid this being a burden on the person giving up "their" training, simply rotate the person helping out the newcomer every 10-15 minutes.
> 
> IMHO, the instructor should spend a little time personally with the new student (for instance, while the rest of the class is working a particular drill), and there are likely parts of the class that would be fine for him/her to do alongside the class (warmup, basics, etc).
> 
> Making no allowances whatsoever for the newcomer simply ensures that they don't return.  That may indeed be the intention here, or the instructor may just have poor customer relation skills.


Oh, I completely Agree.

Thats the best way of not slowing down the entire Class.


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## louise 1 (Oct 25, 2011)

Wow, thank you to everyone who replied to my post. I haven't been on the site since I last posted so sorry for the really slow response to all your advice and questions.

The martial art taught was Shorinji kempo. I was initially drawn to the class from my research of Shorinji as the ethos seems to be very accepting of all people who want to learn it, regardless of natural ability or general fitness. 

I am fairly fit and have no problems with working hard in a class so I don't mind being challenged, in fact I usually enjoy pushing myself physically. It was just the general atmosphere that sucked really. I definitely haven't been put off martial arts and have luckily found a lovely Aikido club that seems to suit me well. 

Fingers crossed and thanks again for all your responses. :cheers:


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## Steve (Oct 25, 2011)

louise 1 said:


> Wow, thank you to everyone who replied to my post. I haven't been on the site since I last posted so sorry for the really slow response to all your advice and questions.
> 
> The martial art taught was Shorinji kempo. I was initially drawn to the class from my research of Shorinji as the ethos seems to be very accepting of all people who want to learn it, regardless of natural ability or general fitness.
> 
> ...


Good for you.  Finding a school that suits your personality and in which you feel comfortable is in many ways more important than choosing one style over another.  Good luck in your studies.


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## Zealot (Oct 25, 2011)

I wish you tons of luck and I agree with Steve that you have to find any art that you yourself are comfortable with.


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## jks9199 (Oct 25, 2011)

louise 1 said:


> Wow, thank you to everyone who replied to my post. I haven't been on the site since I last posted so sorry for the really slow response to all your advice and questions.
> 
> The martial art taught was Shorinji kempo. I was initially drawn to the class from my research of Shorinji as the ethos seems to be very accepting of all people who want to learn it, regardless of natural ability or general fitness.
> 
> ...



From what I know of it, shorinji kempo is a very demanding art.  It's got aspects of koryu training, as well as some religious aspects.  I suggest you read the Dave Lowry article, and make an appointment to speak with the instructor about joining the class.


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## Carol (Oct 25, 2011)

louise 1 said:


> Wow, thank you to everyone who replied to my post. I haven't been on the site since I last posted so sorry for the really slow response to all your advice and questions.
> 
> The martial art taught was Shorinji kempo. I was initially drawn to the class from my research of Shorinji as the ethos seems to be very accepting of all people who want to learn it, regardless of natural ability or general fitness.
> 
> ...



Sounds like a wise move.  I ran in to something very similar myself. 

I have a little experience (I've trained on and off for 5 years) but I don't have any rank to speak of.   I have, however, visited many other schools as a guest of one of the instructors...I made many wonderful friends around the country, many of whom have said I was welcome to visit should I be in the area on personal or business travel.  I took them up on their offer and always had a great time.   So the one skill I do have is fitting in to a "foreign" class quite well even if the style or rituals of the class was something way different than what I was used to.  

So, when I went to check out a local school to find a permanent home for myself, I was very surprised to get a rather unwelcoming vibe from the owner.  I would have been happy to start with the beginners and have a place to train regularly.  But...I dunno, the school owner just didn't seem that interested in talking to me or telling me about his programs.  Which made me far less interested in dropping $99/month at his place of business.   I want to train at a place that genuinely wants me there.

Good luck with the Aikido class! Hope you keep posting about your training!


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## Cyriacus (Oct 25, 2011)

louise 1 said:


> Wow, thank you to everyone who replied to my post. I haven't been on the site since I last posted so sorry for the really slow response to all your advice and questions.
> 
> The martial art taught was Shorinji kempo. I was initially drawn to the class from my research of Shorinji as the ethos seems to be very accepting of all people who want to learn it, regardless of natural ability or general fitness.
> 
> ...



Good Luck, you Aspiring Aikidoka


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## Jenna (Oct 26, 2011)

louise 1 said:


> Wow, thank you to everyone who replied to my post. I haven't been on the site since I last posted so sorry for the really slow response to all your advice and questions.
> 
> The martial art taught was Shorinji kempo. I was initially drawn to the class from my research of Shorinji as the ethos seems to be very accepting of all people who want to learn it, regardless of natural ability or general fitness.
> 
> ...


Yay for Aikido!


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## Chris Parker (Oct 26, 2011)

jks9199 said:


> From what I know of it, shorinji kempo is a very demanding art.  It's got aspects of koryu training, as well as some religious aspects.  I suggest you read the Dave Lowry article, and make an appointment to speak with the instructor about joining the class.



Not to get too much into it, but Shorinji Kenpo isn't Koryu in any way, shape, or form at all. It is the Japanese pronunciation of "Shaolin Chuan Fa", formulated and codified in Japan by Doshin So (a title as much as a name, his real name was Michiomi Nakano). It involves a system not too dissimilar to some karate systems, with a higher degree of grappling (throws, takedowns etc), and is a "hard" system in it's training methods, as well as incorporating some religious concepts (and I'm not getting into the controversies that exist there...), but none of that makes it Koryu or comparable. To be completely clear on that, though, that makes it neither better nor worse than Koryu, just that it isn't really like it at all.


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