# Gunman Kills Pastor, Stabs Self and others.



## MA-Caver (Mar 8, 2009)

Tragic... 


> *Police: Pastor shot dead at church, others stabbed*
> 
> By JIM SUHR, Associated Press Writer        Jim Suhr, Associated Press Writer               13 mins agohttp://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/church_shootingMARYVILLE, Ill.  A gunman walked down the aisle of a church during a Sunday service and killed the pastor, then stabbed himself and slashed two other people as congregants wrestled him to the ground, authorities said.
> The man walked into the sprawling red brick First Baptist Church shortly after 8 a.m. and briefly spoke with The Rev. Fred Winters before pulling out a .45-caliber handgun and shooting Winters once in the chest, said Illinois State Police Master Trooper Ralph Timmins.
> ...



The gun jammed and he still had his alternate weapon and tried to kill himself but was jumped by two others and THEY got stabbed. Previous discussions about knives on this forum are given testament by this horrific act of violence. 
I feel sorry for the parishioners who witnessed this act on a, what is for them a day of worship.
Sympathies go to the pastor's family. 

Whether they'll know or understand why this nut did this is anybody's guess. Hopefully they'll lock him away for a very long time.


----------



## grydth (Mar 8, 2009)

There seem to be little wavelets of homicidal insanity that course through the country. Church shooting is one, the even worse current one is fathers shooting their entire families.

Those people in the church have more courage than I.... were I to see a killer cutting away _at himself _with a knife, I would not get involved. He could  slice himself like a Thanksgiving turkey and that would be just fine with me.


----------



## seasoned (Mar 8, 2009)

grydth said:


> Those people in the church have more courage than I.... were I to see a killer cutting away _at himself _with a knife, I would not get involved. He could slice himself like a Thanksgiving turkey and that would be just fine with me.


Agreed.


----------



## searcher (Mar 8, 2009)

This is one of the reaons why I am a firm believer in CCH.    We have a minimum of 2 people in our church that are armed every service.    

And this also shows how a ban on carrying firearms(IL) really helps protect the people.


----------



## Gordon Nore (Mar 8, 2009)

searcher said:


> ...And this also shows how a ban on carrying firearms(IL) really helps protect the people.



Admittedly, this thread is in Horror Stories, as opposed to the Memorial forum, thus inviting a range of commentary.

However, it's not in the Politics forum, and the link itself does not appear to a politically inspired statement on gun laws. Perhaps if this is to be the direction of the discussion, the thread should be moved to Politics.

Perhaps I'm wrong.


----------



## MA-Caver (Mar 8, 2009)

Gordon Nore said:


> Admittedly, this thread is in Horror Stories, as opposed to the Memorial forum, thus inviting a range of commentary.
> 
> However, it's not in the Politics forum, and the link itself does not appear to a politically inspired statement on gun laws. Perhaps if this is to be the direction of the discussion, the thread should be moved to Politics.
> 
> Perhaps I'm wrong.


No you are correct. If discussion on gun bans and etc. are to be carried out then let them be started in the appropriate forum, the study or even the Armory if it is specific about gun laws and concealed carries. 

I placed this here in Horror Stories because it is one. How we should protect ourselves, for this is supposed to be a place of worship and for many a holy place. I know of many churches who would frown on bringing a weapon into "the house of God", yet even the God they worship does not forbid defending one's self or others. Nor allow one to be a witless and willing sacrifice like sheep. 

Yet this atrocity can happen anywhere, not restricted to a church. Anywhere people may gather collectively or individually. A school gathering, sporting event, shopping and countless of other places where people gather en massed.


----------



## MA-Caver (Mar 8, 2009)

Update on this story... 


> *Police: Ill. pastor deflected gunshot with Bible*
> 
> 
> By JIM SUHR, Associated Press Writer        Jim Suhr, Associated Press Writer               1 hr 52 mins ago
> ...


----------



## arnisador (Mar 9, 2009)

MA-Caver said:


> The gun jammed and he still had his alternate weapon



Yes, when a person goes out to cause damage there is _always_ a secondary weapon.


----------



## MA-Caver (Mar 11, 2009)

Yet another update on the story...



> *Church shooting suspect left 'Last Day Will' card*
> 
> By JIM SUHR, Associated Press Writer        Jim Suhr, Associated Press Writer          &#8211;     Tue Mar 10, 6:02 pm ET
> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090310/ap_on_re_us/church_shooting
> ...


Seems that it was a good thing the two men who wrestled the guy to the floor saved the lives of others without realizing it as the guy apparently wanted to take more with him. Even if they gotten injured themselves from the man's knife they still did the right thing. 
It's also fortunate that he didn't think to bring his full arsenal with him. This event could've turned out much more tragic with more deaths.


----------

