# After 1st Black now what?



## hemi (Oct 10, 2005)

I have seen it asked more than once how long does it take to get a black belt in American Kenpo I see the most common answer is four to six years. My question is along those lines in that, after you attain the level of black belt how long and what is required to reach 2nd 3rd 4th and so on. I am guessing to attain 2nd you would have a set amount of time teaching/helping and some new forms and sets to learn. 



I know I have a LONG time till I need to be concerned about that level but I am very curious what to expect later on in my training. When I asked my instructor about this he only said I should just be concerned with reaching 1st and not to be concerned with the other until I get to that point. 



Any info would be great thanks Your brother in Kenpo


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## MJS (Oct 10, 2005)

2004hemi said:
			
		

> I have seen it asked more than once how long does it take to get a black belt in American Kenpo I see the most common answer is four to six years. My question is along those lines in that, after you attain the level of black belt how long and what is required to reach 2nd 3rd 4th and so on. I am guessing to attain 2nd you would have a set amount of time teaching/helping and some new forms and sets to learn.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Each school may vary, but I've seen some that do something along the lines of 1st to 2nd black= 2yrs, 2nd to 3rd= 3yrs.  Again, this can/will vary from school to school.  Of course, contribution to the art will also play a part.

As for what there is to learn.  Once you reach the advanced ranks, you will begin to learn the extensions for the lower belt techniques.  

I hope that this was a help.

Mike


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## Doc (Oct 10, 2005)

MJS said:
			
		

> Each school may vary, but I've seen some that do something along the lines of 1st to 2nd black= 2yrs, 2nd to 3rd= 3yrs.  Again, this can/will vary from school to school.  Of course, contribution to the art will also play a part.
> 
> As for what there is to learn.  Once you reach the advanced ranks, you will begin to learn the extensions for the lower belt techniques.
> 
> ...


The way I see it, and I recognize this is the standard, to measure progress in years is ludicrous and overly broad in interpretation. Funny how when you ask someone "how long have you been studying the martial arts," their answer always emcompasses from the first day they started to the day you ask the question. They don't ever seem to mention that they don't train anymore, or that time they stopped for a few years, or the fact that when they trained seriously they showed up two or three times a week for a couple of hours, except when they didn't feel like it or worked late. Then there was the time when the baby came, or when they sat out for injuries. Somehow those years don't look so "yearly" when you really examine them.

I judge my students training time as Mr. Parker suggested to me, in actual participation hours. All students are required to keep a personal time sheet of "in class," "teaching," and/or "audit" hours signed by staff at each session. These are kept as a record to document actual time over bluster.

For the record, our "black belt" requires approximately 1200 hours in the MSU (Kenpo), with a minimum of 16 weeks per belt course. If it takes you ten years to get there, so be it. At least your time is legitimate and not the nebulous "years" with time off unaccounted for. Considering most spend more time in a year *NOT* training then they DO actually training, it seems silly to use that as a measurement.

To each his own.


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## MJS (Oct 11, 2005)

Doc said:
			
		

> The way I see it, and I recognize this is the standard, to measure progress in years is ludicrous and overly broad in interpretation. Funny how when you ask someone "how long have you been studying the martial arts," their answer always emcompasses from the first day they started to the day you ask the question. They don't ever seem to mention that they don't train anymore, or that time they stopped for a few years, or the fact that when they trained seriously they showed up two or three times a week for a couple of hours, except when they didn't feel like it or worked late. Then there was the time when the baby came, or when they sat out for injuries. Somehow those years don't look so "yearly" when you really examine them.
> 
> I judge my students training time as Mr. Parker suggested to me, in actual participation hours. All students are required to keep a personal time sheet of "in class," "teaching," and/or "audit" hours signed by staff at each session. These are kept as a record to document actual time over bluster.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the reply Doc! :asian: 

IMO, I think that what matters most is how well the student understands the material.  Its almost as if once the time from belt A to B is up, the student expects to be promoted because that 'time frame' is up.  Everyone progresses at a different pace.  The color of the belt is not whats going to defend you.  Much more important to know the material, understand it, and be able to make it work.  As you said, if it takes 10 yrs. to get then, then thats what it takes.

Mike


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## Seabrook (Oct 11, 2005)

Doc said:
			
		

> The way I see it, and I recognize this is the standard, to measure progress in years is ludicrous and overly broad in interpretation. Funny how when you ask someone "how long have you been studying the martial arts," their answer always emcompasses from the first day they started to the day you ask the question. They don't ever seem to mention that they don't train anymore, or that time they stopped for a few years, or the fact that when they trained seriously they showed up two or three times a week for a couple of hours, except when they didn't feel like it or worked late. Then there was the time when the baby came, or when they sat out for injuries. Somehow those years don't look so "yearly" when you really examine them.
> 
> I judge my students training time as Mr. Parker suggested to me, in actual participation hours. All students are required to keep a personal time sheet of "in class," "teaching," and/or "audit" hours signed by staff at each session. These are kept as a record to document actual time over bluster.


Exactly, sir. I tell this to my students all of the time. 

That's why you often see people with, say, an 8th degree black belt on, see his skill level, and then say to yourself "huh??". But of course, this individual has the "30 years experience to back it up" lol. 

Well put.


Jamie Seabrook
www.seabrook.gotkenpo.com


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## Doc (Oct 11, 2005)

Exactly. The minimum standards we set insure a student on average has put in the requisite time. However in the lower division, a student who exhibits the ability to absorb the material at a faster rate could petition for evaluation, upper division time requirements are inflexible for obvious reasons. You can't shortcut experience no matter how smart of physically gifted you may be.


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## Seig (Oct 19, 2005)

Personally, I just do what I do, learn all I can, teach the best I can and wait for my instructor to tell me I'm ready for the next step.


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## KenpoVzla (Oct 25, 2005)

I'd say it's 2 years after 1st black to get your 2dan degree, but of course it all depend on how much effort you put on. From 2 to 3rd might take a little longer because 3rd degree is the leve at which you can legally teach, so....you must be prepared for it.


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