# Creationist museum auctioning 40,000 year old mastodon skull



## Andrew Green (Jan 18, 2008)

Have to say, I find something funny in this 

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/01/17/mastodon.skull.ap/index.html


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## MA-Caver (Jan 18, 2008)

Andrew Green said:


> Have to say, I find something funny in this
> 
> http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/01/17/mastodon.skull.ap/index.html


I think I can see the humor in it as well. People aren't buying into their theory of man and dinosaurs co-existing together... unless they're from Dinotopia  
If I had the money I'd buy the mastodon skull and then donate it (tax write off) to a _real_ museum. Pretty nifty thing to have. 

Hmm, sez that Noah had dinosaurs aboard his ark... now given the size of a Diplodocus carnegiei: 25-27 m (83-88 ft) or the temperment of a hungry Tyrannosaurus then counting Triceratops, and various raptors... on top of all the other fur bearing mammals he had on board... must've been mighty crowded in that thar boat.


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## Andrew Green (Jan 18, 2008)

What I find funny is that they need to sell a 40,000 year old skull to keep the museum open.  The museum is set up to teach that the earth is far less then 40,000 years old


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## KempoGuy06 (Jan 18, 2008)

Andrew Green said:


> What I find funny is that they need to sell a 40,000 year old skull to keep the museum open.  The museum is set up to teach that the earth is far less then 40,000 years old


have they never heard of carbon dating?

B


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## KempoGuy06 (Jan 18, 2008)

> The Heritage auction will also include other natural history items, including a 26-pound gold nugget found in Mexico that is expected to fetch at least $1 million.-Copyright 2008 The Associated Press.



Ill take it

B


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## tellner (Jan 18, 2008)

Gotta admit I lust after that extinct pachyderm's ivory. OF course, that's why the living ones are so close to extinction themselves


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## JBrainard (Jan 18, 2008)

Andrew Green said:


> What I find funny is that they need to sell a 40,000 year old skull to keep the museum open. The museum is set up to teach that the earth is far less then 40,000 years old


 
"Young Earth" creationists believe that the earth is less than 10k years old. And they are selling a 40k year old skull...
Sweet, sweet irony.


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## CoryKS (Jan 18, 2008)

$160,000?!  That's a lot of money for the fake skull of a mythological creature!  ​


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## SFC JeffJ (Jan 18, 2008)

KempoGuy06 said:


> have they never heard of carbon dating?
> 
> B


They claim it's inaccurate.  Or, from personal experience, they'll say it's the work of Satan.


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## JBrainard (Jan 18, 2008)

SFC JeffJ said:


> They claim it's inaccurate. Or, from personal experience, they'll say it's the work of Satan.


 
I've found that most fundamentalist Christians believe that anything that doesn't fit the mold of their belief system is the work of evil spirits or Satan her/himself.
My mother in law thinks that the fact that I listen to black metal has caused evil spirits to follow me around. Funny, I haven't noticed...


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## Omar B (Jan 18, 2008)

This is why I hate those stupid ****ing christians with their stupid crap.  Creationist museum?  As if years of scientific research takes a backseat to fairly stories written in the bible.  Sure science is great when it saves your life, provides you medicine or provides pretty much everything that makes life easier but when it says your a nutjob for holding so tightly to something everyone knows is not the truth they shun it.

I both wanna see the skull sold to get it away from those nutjobs and the museum fail somehow.  Though they'll probably eventually star taking collections and soliciting through televangelists saying god needs the museum open.


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## KempoGuy06 (Jan 18, 2008)

SFC JeffJ said:


> They claim it's inaccurate.  Or, from personal experience, they'll say it's the work of Satan.


i knew that, silly me, proven scientific technology is pure evil. I still cant believe they let us come up with, written languages, mathmatics and time. We are all going to burn in hell 

B


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## JBrainard (Jan 18, 2008)

KempoGuy06 said:


> technology is pure evil.


 
Well, Microsoft software _could_ be the work of the devil. It sure causes me to take The Lord's name in vain a lot.



KempoGuy06 said:


> We are all going to burn in hell


 
Good times...


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## KempoGuy06 (Jan 18, 2008)

JBrainard said:


> Well, Microsoft software _could_ be the work of the devil. It sure causes me to take The Lord's name in vain a lot.


 
Im the same way



> Good times...



As long as they have a bar Im good

B


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## Xue Sheng (Jan 18, 2008)

> Noah took dinosaurs aboard his ark


 
:lfao:


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## tellner (Jan 18, 2008)

JBrainard said:


> My mother in law thinks that the fact that I listen to black metal has caused evil spirits to follow me around. Funny, I haven't noticed...



Considering the swill you were drinking the last time we met I'd say she was right about the evil spirits


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## CoryKS (Jan 18, 2008)

KempoGuy06 said:


> As long as they have a bar Im good
> 
> B


 
The FSM offers a beer volcano.  Would you like to read some of our literature?


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## Doc_Jude (Jan 18, 2008)

Andrew Green said:


> Have to say, I find something funny in this
> 
> http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/01/17/mastodon.skull.ap/index.html



If they dated it, then it's definitely funny.


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## theletch1 (Jan 18, 2008)

[playnice]Jeff Letchford[/playnice]


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## Bob Hubbard (Jan 18, 2008)

Here's my question.

If scientists date it 40,000 years, but the premise of the group selling is that science is wrong, then, how does truth in advertising laws effect the listing?

Or, is it hypocritical or wrong to claim what one believes is false to be true just to make some money to promote that belief?


actually, that made my head hurt.


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## thardey (Jan 18, 2008)

There are old earth creationists who date the earth anywhere from 20,000 to 200,000 years old. A minority, but they're out there.


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## Omar B (Jan 19, 2008)

Bob Hubbard said:


> Here's my question.
> If scientists date it 40,000 years, but the premise of the group selling is that science is wrong, then, how does truth in advertising laws effect the listing?
> Or, is it hypocritical or wrong to claim what one believes is false to be true just to make some money to promote that belief?
> actually, that made my head hurt.



It's an interesting question you pose, but I think it's better it is out of their hands if they don't believe in the basic science behind it.  If they make a profit and it keeps their place open forever how long then they are find with it. 

It's like trading in conflict diamonds.  You know the truth behind each diamond yet you would rather have a beautiful bauble that see the truth behind it.


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## Whitebelt (Jan 19, 2008)

That is the ULTIMATE coffee table decoration!


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## Andrew Green (Jan 19, 2008)

To clarify one thing, it is the auction house selling it on there behalf that lists it as 40,000 years old, the article doesn't say how old the museum claims it to be.


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## Omar B (Jan 19, 2008)

I just hope it ends up someplace where people appreciate it for what it is and what it represents.  I would love to see it go to a children's science museum.

Ever wonder why they don't make more castes of these fossils?  It's like the only time you see prehistoric beasts is at the museum or on TV.  I'm a huge art nerd and would love to see full repro skeletons in parts as installation art or sculpture (howevr you wanna think about it).


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## grydth (Jan 19, 2008)

Bob Hubbard said:


> Here's my question.
> 
> If scientists date it 40,000 years, but the premise of the group selling is that science is wrong, then, how does truth in advertising laws effect the listing?
> 
> ...




There is a very great amount of material on the market, in many fields, of shall we say uncertain authenticity. 

Is the postmark on that stamp real? Is the autograph on the ball genuine? How old is that katana, and who made it? I've never heard of that rifle being used in that campaign..... and so on. Add to this the fact that most sellers aren't specialists or experts..... and that often experts disagree...... and one sees this is nothing out of the ordinary.

The seller on some occasions may say, " as is" , or note in the description that uncertainty exists or cite the authority.

Is it hard commerically dealing with material you find abhorrent? Not really. I collect and research items from the Russian Front of World War II.... yet strongly believe that Hitler's Germany and Stalin's Russia were 2 of the worst monster states ever created. Shopping and buying the stuff is easy..... you get struck when you realize you've got a package receipt from a Concentration Camp or a death notice for a family's 4th son in your hand.


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## KempoGuy06 (Jan 19, 2008)

Bob Hubbard said:


> actually, that made my head hurt.



Mine too, but I see the point you are trying to make

B


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## Steel Tiger (Jan 20, 2008)

This is one of the stranger things I have heard for a while.  Interestingly, the article lists two rather high costs for the museum recently, the allosaurus legal thing and the restoration of the mastodon skull, as a result they are selling pieces from the collection.  It doesn't seem like a very big museum so I'm wondering just how many exhibits there will be left after the sell off.

This whole thing raises some questions for me.  'Young' creationists I can get my head around, they just write off scientific investigation of the past as evil, or just go "blah, blah, blah," and cover their ears whenever it is mentioned.  'Old' creationists are quite a bit more perplexing.  These people accept something of the age of humanity, a position that puts them in some degree of agreement with science.  

I do wish that people would realise that it is not religion's job to explain the past.  Telling people that the world is only 4000 years old does not salve their souls or comfort them with regard to what happens beyond death.  If the Bible is a history text for the whole world, then it is the worst one in existence.  The Old Testament is the mythology of the Jewish people, they need to accept that and move on.  They should stop trying to _interpret the world_ so that it fits into the text.  They'll feel better and won't have other people yelling at them all the time.


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## Xue Sheng (Jan 20, 2008)

just as a note

science, I beleive, has the youngest dated mastodon sites range down to about 9000 years ago and I beleive the bible claims the earth is 6000 years old.

But if the world is only 4000 years old then the Xia dynasty was from 2000-1750 B.C per Chinese historians. So apparently Chinese history is off by about 7 years and they were BRILIANT 4000 years ago. Damn they just poped into existance and already had a dynasty. And if humans and dinasuars existed at the same time then that sure as hell clears up that whole dragon thingy


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## Steel Tiger (Jan 20, 2008)

Xue Sheng said:


> just as a note
> 
> science, I beleive, has the youngest dated mastodon sites range down to about 9000 years ago and I beleive the bible claims the earth is 6000 years old.
> 
> But if the world is only 4000 years old then the Xia dynasty was from 2000-1750 B.C per Chinese historians. So apparently Chinese history is off by about 7 years and they were BRILIANT 4000 years ago. Damn they just poped into existance and already had a dynasty. And if humans and dinasuars existed at the same time then that sure as hell clears up that whole dragon thingy


 
Yeah, 6000 years is more like it.  Got my numbers wrong there, oops:duh:.

And we all _know_ that the Chinese are either one of the lost tribes of Israel or a product of Satan .


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## Xue Sheng (Jan 20, 2008)

Steel Tiger said:


> Yeah, 6000 years is more like it. Got my numbers wrong there, oops:duh:.
> 
> And we all know that the Chinese are either one of the lost tribes of Israel or a product of Satan .


 
Still 2000 years to come from Eden to the Xia dynasty... that is pretty impressive 

Agriculture, irrigation, raising cattle, use of bronze, writing with pictures, silk.... all in 2000 years after being cast out of Eden


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