# Why Kids Get Bullied?



## MA-Caver (Feb 3, 2010)

> *Studies Reveal Why Kids Get Bullied and Rejected*
> 
> Kids who get bullied and snubbed by peers may be more likely to have problems in other parts of their lives, past studies have shown. And now researchers have found at least three factors in a child's behavior that can lead to social rejection.
> The factors involve a child's inability to pick up on and respond to nonverbal cues from their pals.
> ...


Growing up I was bullied a lot. Skinny white kid with nerdy glasses because he loved to read more than he liked to play sports. Going to school on a day to day basis was a trial in-of-itself... particularly when the current bully points at you and says "I'll get you tomorrow" and says it with such conviction that one would have preferred to break their own leg so to get OUT of going the next day. Yet later on found out that it was just idle threats... sometimes. 
I don't know about the study's findings on misreading body language cues as being accurate. In my own experience living in a home where non-verbal language was the norm (deaf parents), I caught on to potential threats more often than my nerd counterparts did... (remember back in my day GEEKS were called NERDS). 
The long term affects I would have to agree with because I did and still do experience the ones listed at one time or another or to some degree or another. 
What helped me of course was the study of MA... at the time ANY MA I could learn, just so to keep those bastards away from me or at least attempt to give them what they were trying to give me. Fighting back at least has helped my own self-confidence and self-esteem from being totally blasted to the far regions of the galaxy (see, told you I was a nerd). Also what helped was escape into the books and movies I so loved. 

The article also goes on to say... 


> When children have prolonged struggles with socializing, "a vicious cycle begins," Lavoie said. Shunned children have few opportunities to practice social skills, while popular kids are busy perfecting theirs. However, having just one or two friends can be enough to give a child the social practice he or she needs, he said.
> Parents, teachers and other adults in a child's life can help, too. Instead of reacting with anger or embarrassment to a child who, say, asks Aunt Mindy if her new hairdo was a mistake, parents should teach social skills with the same tone they use for teaching long division or proper hygiene. If presented as a learning opportunity, rather than a punishment, children usually appreciate the lesson.
> "Most kids are so desperate to have friends, they just jump on board," Lavoie said.


I was likewise one of those "last to be picked" or not even considered at all types. I learned to deal with that by learning to enjoy my own company and having just a very small circle or clique of friends to hang out with. This quasi-isolationism did help me hone certain other skills and helped my own drive to be really good at whatever it is that I chose to do. 
I do wish at times that my older brother who was a social king and had lots of friends and all that had included me into his own activities so I could at least learn more of the gregarious type of social skills than the interpersonal one-on-one type skills that I have now. 

Each child is different I think and know that a lot will agree here. What a study of 4800 students may not always apply to a single kid. Of course studies like this do help a better understanding of possible causes and/or solutions to a child's erratic behavior. They would have to be individually tailored to the child by the parents and teachers/counselors. 

Reading this article brought to mind of certain comedians who lament how children are reared today. One in particular (Carlos Mencia) talks about how if you got in trouble in school "back then" the parent would ask one question... "What did _you_ do?" in a tone that indicated that it was their fault. He goes on to say that now parents will raise hell about a bus-driver kicking a kid off the bus for being unruly or a teacher sending a kid home early for fighting or giving a low grade because he didn't study the night before, etc etc.  It spoils the kid(s) and makes them less than what they COULD be. 
I think that is something I could agree with. The times that I got sent home from school or whatever... my dad would ask that same question..."what did you do?" When I explained he pointed out my faux pas and not the other kid/teacher/adult. 

I think that kids learning how to deal with bullies and how to prevent further bullying should be addressed more than the whys and wherefores they're being picked on. It's one of the reasons why I'm a strong advocate of MA-training for kids so that they can at least have the confidence to stand up to the O'Doyles in the worlds. 

Thoughts? Comments?


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## Marginal (Feb 3, 2010)

So it was your fault you got bullied?


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## Gordon Nore (Feb 3, 2010)

Interesting read, Caver. I will have to look into the article and its sources later, but thanks. It's of interest to me as an elementary teacher, but I can relate to the life-long affects of being bullied, something that I didn't realize until I was into my forties.


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## Carol (Feb 3, 2010)

Heck, I still run in to issues with not being able to pick up on nonverbal or (sometimes worse) indirect cues.  I don't run in to this professionally because I have to be precise in my communications others, and others generally have to be precise with me.

Outside of work though, I've had a few tense moments with my friends or my former husband that usually ends up with me asking "Can't you just tell me xxxx specifically?"


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## seasoned (Feb 3, 2010)

Marginal said:


> So it was your fault you got bullied?


As a former "I got bullied myself guy" yes sometimes it is our fault, and other times we just get caught up in a period of time, and become a target by kids with big problems. The big thing I learned after adulthood was the ones that got bullied had no where to go but up, while the hard core bullies had no where to go but down.


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## Jenny_in_Chico (Feb 3, 2010)

I was socially marginalized as a kid. My parents divorced when I was 6, my mom remarried when I was 8, and there were 4 moves during that time that put me into new schools. I was introverted, preferred reading to socializing, and I was clearly more intelligent than the other kids and also was clearly uninterested in pleasing them or my teachers. I had few social skills, and was bullied a bit until I purposely cultivated a persona of aggression around age 12, by hanging out with the stoners and metal heads. I didn't turn into ME until grad school, where I finally came into my own and blossomed like a flower.  I attribute the personality change to my experience in teaching as a grad student...I'm a really good teacher, I enjoy it, and I found that when I was the center of attention and holding forth about a subject in which I was an expert, my confidence grew tremendously. Also, something that Ralph said made me consider this second source of social skills...but I studied chimp and gorilla social behavior for 5 years as an undergrad and then for my MS degree, and learning to read body language and non-verbal cues from great apes is a really good foundation for learning to read human behavioral cues.


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## searcher (Feb 3, 2010)

I was one of the guys who got bullied and most of the time it was my fault.   I hated getting picked on, so I started training.    Then the 2-3 bullies became 4-5+ depending on how well I handled myself.    I have to admit that if it weren't for the bullies, I would not have worked as hard on being able to defend myself.    I owe them a ton.

I really wanted to get back at them, but they have done themselves in.    Most of them are ate up on drugs and at least 1 died here a few years back.    I see them around once in a while and I can tell you that I could care less about getting back at them.    I feel like I am at a level to where they would stand no chance against me.    So I choose to be me and not become the bully.


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## jks9199 (Feb 3, 2010)

Let's see...

Kids who don't fit in and have trouble relating to their peers get bullied.

Shocking discovery.  I bet people who climb tall things fall down and get hurt more often.

Anyone wanna bet that bullies are also kids who have trouble fitting in and relating, too... and express it by beating up on others?

There are basically three ways I see for folks who don't relate well.  A few become comfortable being themselves, and march to their own beat.  (Interestingly, when you think of a lot of standouts in various fields... you see some of these traits.)  A lot find a way to disappear -- if they aren't getting bullied.  Others simply attack anyone that seems vulnerable...

Note that this is different than the almost herd-like way a group can turn on someone who seems different or doesn't fit in.  While some would classify that as bullying, I think the dynamic is different enough to separate them.


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## Blade96 (Feb 4, 2010)

This issue speaks to me loudly and personally and I will write why. First of all, i dont even know why i was bullied. I didnt suck at sports, (except tennis in fact people liked it when i was the soccer goalie for example because it was hard to get the ball past me lol) i was a pretty good student at school, I was bright and well read, and I loved hockey. I also wasnt an ugly looking person like medusa or anything. or had a disability anyone would make fun of. 

I'm a victim of bullying. formost of my life i was called everything in the book by students and teachers as well. I was isolated, shoved out in special ed classrooms, called a cri du chat child, retarded, autistic, a fetal alcohol syndrom person (that was said about me at university) and I have suffered every possible form of abuse you can think of short of actual rape. well I guess you could say i was raped figuratively if not literaly. I didnt have friends (i still have trouble making them ) and no one stood up for me. I tried to commit suicide several times. I didnt complete high school because i quit to avoid the abuse. I had nightmares, I cried all the time, I literally lived a life of fear and hate. Its where I learned hate. and how to hate.

I still suffer socially. I cant really date or get a lot of friends. Do one know how hard it is to have no one to love, and no one who loves you? and family who you cant talk to about it they just say 'get over it' To this day I dont like myself and see myself as unlikable because I have trouble making friends.

I dont think bullying is talked about enough in society and taken as seriously as it should be. Bullies have an incredible amount of power, and people cant deal with that on their own. (ask a survivor of domestic violence. Thats a type of bully who does it to his/her partner.)

It is a sad that kids cant go to school and feel safe, where the only things they have to worry about ia hating math class and finding a date for the prom. Kids should have to worry about those normal teenage things and not feel afraid. I had none of those things. I lived in a world where you could go to school and never come home again. (Reena Virk comes to mind) Actually had a teenager who threatened to fire a rifle at me. Another one tried to set me on fire with a cigarette lighter.

It is a basic democratic right to feel safe in school and when this happens its a violation of people's rights. It is persecution.

I have a university degree though now. and i train in the MA. But honestly the only time I really feel happy with life is when i'm at my Shotokan dojo.

I dont believe its anyone's fault their rights got violated in such a persecuting way. I attended a rally some years ago led by a womna wh's teen got beat up by bullies and all you could see was his red eye (he got beat up so bad the blood pooled behind his eye and made his eye turned red) I went up to him and gave him hugs. It wasnt his fault he got beat up. 

Unfortunately blaming the victim is all too common in our ridiculous society.

and you know what? when people say you have to love yourself before you can learn how to love others I say well its pretty hard to give a damn about yourself when nobody has ever given two damns about you. and thats how its pretty much been for me in life.


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## Bruno@MT (Feb 4, 2010)

Interesting discussion. I had some issues as a kid as well, but never got really beaten up. Looking back, I realized that most of my problems were caused by me not having a clue, which was partially because I was being overprotected, and partially because I was a natural born nerd 

Anyway...
Just this weekend I went snowboarding, and when we arrived at the resort, we had to wait an hour because the lift was out of service. While we were waiting, people kept coming in so pretty rapidly the place was packed, and ther were various groups of kids there as well.

The group near me were pretty loud and obnoxious. They were also picking on the lowest individual on the totempole, shoving him, annoying him, and hitting him against his ski helmet. Most of the bystanders were annoyed as well.

At a certain moment they kept hitting him hard so when the biggest of the pack wanted to hit him again, I grabbed his shoulder, pulled him back and told him to calm down, which he did somewhat. The group still kept bullying the guy though. I did not intervene anymore at that point for the following reasons:

1) the kid was there by his own choice, hanging with that group of kids (there were other groups from the same school or whatever). He should learn that choosing the wrong friends is stupid and he'll never get accepted anyway. I had to learn the same lesson in my youth, and the kid has to figure it out as well.
2) they weren't really hurting him at that point so it wasn't strictly necessary. He should learn that if he doesn't stand up for himself or leave, his situation is not going to improve.
3) if I broke it up for him, the humiliation for him would be bigger, and there is a chance it would be worse afterwards (I have known this to be the case).

The 2 biggest aholes were standing near me and my wife though, and I placed myself deliberatly between them and her. I had just traveled 12 hours through the night in a bus, with very little sleep, and I hadn't had coffee yet. I was in the rare state that my wife calls 'grumpy'. When they shoved against me I could ignore it. Had they shoved my wife... the results would have been rather unpleasant for all involved including me.


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## Bruno@MT (Feb 4, 2010)

Blade96 said:


> Unfortunately blaming the victim is all too common in our ridiculous society.
> 
> and you know what? when people say you have to love yourself before you can learn how to love others I say well its pretty hard to give a damn about yourself when nobody has ever given two damns about you. and thats how its pretty much been for me in life.



I have been bullied myself (though not nearly as bad as you). While the bullies were the ones to blame, they chose me as the victim because I did not understand the social cues and did not know the 'laws of the jungle'.
In fact, at a certain point someone came along who was even dorkier than me. This increased my relative position enough that I was generally left alone.

It took me a lot of time but eventually I learned how to interpret body language and non verbal communication and that helped immensely.


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## Blade96 (Feb 4, 2010)

Reena Virk apparently was also blamed for her murder and bullying. From Wiki:

"The best-selling book about the case, "Under the Bridge" by Rebecca Godfrey, details some of the motives that may have led to Virk's death. Two of the girls convicted in the initial beating allege that Virk stole a phone book from Nicole Cook and started calling Cook's friends and spreading rumors about her. Cook stubbed out a cigarette on Virk's forehead during the attack. Another girl, M.G.P, was allegedly angry with Virk for stealing her boyfriend. Virk once lived with the two girls in a youth group home. It is suggested she may have done those things in order to assert herself as "tough."

I'd like some of you who blame victims to go up to a domestic violence survivor and say this to their faces that they're reponsible for their bullies actions.

victims dont stand up for themselves because they CAN'T. In my case I was physically small, my bully was big and tough and usually surrounded by his followers, wheras I was isolated and had no friends around. As for walking away, I couldnt do that either, as I was always stalked by them. I didnt understand a lot of social cues either.  Am I to blame because i couldnt walk away or stand up for myself or simply cause i had less social skills than my peers?


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## Bruno@MT (Feb 4, 2010)

I hope that was not @me. I don't blame the victims. I was one myself ok? I know what it feels like to be in that place and I feel I know what I am talking about. I was small too. I didn't hit puberty until I was 13 and I was the smallest kid in the class, girls included. I didn't start growing until my 4th year in high school.
ll repeat it again: the victims are not to blame.

I was only pointing out that
a) victims get picked by the bullies because of certain traits, like being helpless and not fitting in.
b) victims can stop being victims if they understand the reasons they got picked on and change those traits.

Ok put it like this: suppose there is a sniper in the city who shoots people at random, like a couple of years ago. Now suppose for some reason he only shoots at people wearing red shirts. If you wear a red shirt and get shot, then it is really not your fault. It's the sniper's fault. He is an ******* and HE is to blame and it is really not your fault and you didn't deserve this. However, if you understand that you get shot at for wearing a red shirt you can wear a green shirt and be safe. That does NOT mean the shooter is in the right, it just means that you will not be the one he's shooting at.

Or as my mother said when I was learning to drive a car: whether the big truck has right of way or not does not matter. If you get under the wheels you are dead. Sure the truck driver will be blamed afterwards but that won't do you any good. So don't ever assert your right of way unless you know for sure noone will drive into you.


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## seasoned (Feb 4, 2010)

Blade96 said:


> This issue speaks to me loudly and personally and I will write why. First of all, i dont even know why i was bullied. I didnt suck at sports, (except tennis in fact people liked it when i was the soccer goalie for example because it was hard to get the ball past me lol) i was a pretty good student at school, I was bright and well read, and I loved hockey. I also wasnt an ugly looking person like medusa or anything. or had a disability anyone would make fun of.
> 
> I'm a victim of bullying. formost of my life i was called everything in the book by students and teachers as well. I was isolated, shoved out in special ed classrooms, called a cri du chat child, retarded, autistic, a fetal alcohol syndrom person (that was said about me at university) and I have suffered every possible form of abuse you can think of short of actual rape. well I guess you could say i was raped figuratively if not literaly. I didnt have friends (i still have trouble making them ) and no one stood up for me. I tried to commit suicide several times. I didnt complete high school because i quit to avoid the abuse. I had nightmares, I cried all the time, I literally lived a life of fear and hate. Its where I learned hate. and how to hate.
> 
> ...


Martial arts is not the cure all, but I found it to be very satisfying. It gave me much of what was missing while I was a kid. Although I didn't experience nearly as much as you while growing up, the things that happened still had a lasting effect into my adult years. The statement you made above is what I would like to address. All through my formative years, I cared more about what other people thought, and I work hard at trying to please them, then myself. It wasn't until I took a long hard look at life that I discovered that trying to please other people was a dead end road. Martial arts helped me to focus on myself, it helped me to look within. With the kata and sparing, I found that the better I got, the better I felt about myself. You have to build from within, and it begins with looking within, and this is the door that MA opened for me. Focus on yourself, get good in MA and as you start to give back to your follow students you will form the bond with people that eluded you as a kid and young adult. Some 40 years later I can say it worked for me, and might for you. I may not love everyone, but I can honesty say I like most people. The most important thing is, it took not giving a damm about what other people thought to bring me to the point in life where I understand myself and in turn understand others better.


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## Omar B (Feb 4, 2010)

I moved around a lot as a kid because my parents divorced and the nature of their jobs involved a lot of travel.  Hell, I went to 4 different high schools!

People's tried stuff with me all the time during the first week or so of school, usually I solved that with a sound thrashing and problem solved.  Heck, my first day in a NY high school 3 guys tried to steal my watch when I was changing back from guy.  3 guys also went to the nurse that afternoon.


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## Blade96 (Feb 4, 2010)

Omar B said:


> I moved around a lot as a kid because my parents divorced and the nature of their jobs involved a lot of travel. Hell, I went to 4 different high schools!
> 
> People's tried stuff with me all the time during the first week or so of school, usually I solved that with a sound thrashing and problem solved. Heck, my first day in a NY high school 3 guys tried to steal my watch when I was changing back from guy. 3 guys also went to the nurse that afternoon.


 
I had to do that once. with a girl who was trying to bully me. (btw everyone called her vampire because she used to literally bite people.) In grade 8 or 9 it was, and she was giving me trouble on the school bus. She wasnt big or strong, and she didnt really have friends either. I beat the crap out of her. She never touched me again.

Sometimes I wish i could have done that with the male bullies. But I wasnt able to.


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## Jade Tigress (Feb 4, 2010)

I read the article yesterday. Found it interesting but disagreed with the use of the term "bullied". The article seemed to describe what I think of as being shunned. 

I think at some point in everyone's life they experience being shunned for some reason. Heck, you can have a group of teenage girls that are the best of friends and all of sudden you hear about one of them being shunned for no apparent reason. 

Bullying is a bit different I think. A bully seeks a victim to pick on and typically continues to focus on said victims for a duration of time intending to cause fear. It goes beyond the getting picked last thing which is more like shunning. 

My story is similar to Jenny's. My mom divorced and we moved _every single year_, more often than not right in the middle of the school year, which put me in new schools constantly. Friendships were already formed and I was always the new kid, never around long enough to form friendships. 

So I was ostracized, but I don't recall ever actually being bullied, where someone threatened me. I wasn't pushed around in the halls, I didn't have books knocked off my desk, etc. It was more like I didn't exist. 

Anyway, whether it's called bullying or shunning, the causes behind it is an interesting study. I think shunning is a more natural group response to those who fail to pick up on certain social cues, (though I was quite observant), and bullies have their own social inadequacies that they are compensating for by being a bully.


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## Gordon Nore (Feb 4, 2010)

As a teacher, I see parents and kids struggle with issues that sometimes are bullying and sometimes are not. Bullying by nature is persistent. Virtually all children will at one time or another be a victim or perpetrator of mistreatment of others. Thus there is bullying behaviour -- whether it's shunning, physical abuse, name calling, etc. It's wrong behaviour, of course, but it's not necessarily bullying.

That's enormously complicated for a child to figure out. Kids will often express their frustrations in the most global terms. "They're all bullying me." or "He hates me." Sometimes -- make that, a lot of times -- it's a one-off incident, or a misunderstanding. From my perspective, as a teacher, I have to follow up on all of them, so that actual bullying doesn't slip through.

Additionally, it's very complicated for youngsters who get labeled as bystanders. Kids get mixed messages, sometimes being told not to get involved in other people's business, then castigated for witnessing bullying and not doing anything about it.


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## Gordon Nore (Feb 4, 2010)

Jade Tigress said:


> So I was ostracized, but I don't recall ever actually being bullied, where someone threatened me. I wasn't pushed around in the halls, I didn't have books knocked off my desk, etc. It was more like I didn't exist.
> 
> Anyway, whether it's called bullying or shunning, the causes behind it is an interesting study. I think shunning is a more natural group response to those who fail to pick up on certain social cues, (though I was quite observant), and bullies have their own social inadequacies that they are compensating for by being a bully.



Educators and psychologists tend to include shunning under the category of bullying. In my observation, girls socially alienate each other more so than boys. It's also a very effective device for manipulating or extorting their target. The classic example I ran into in middle school is one girl telling another, "Tell your email password. I won't tell anyone, I promise." The girl knows she shouldn't do it, but the fear of being alienated over-rides other fears of what might go wrong when personal information is shared.

I was bullied mostly in grades seven and eight -- that's another post in itself. There were times when I laughed or went along with it out of fear of being excluded, or in the hopes that it might abate if I didn't make waves. 

A part of that experience that has remained with me are the relentlessly stupid things adults told me: "They're just jealous." "If you don't show signs of weakness, they'll respect you." I used to think, why would I want the respect of people who are so cowardly as to gang up to pick on someone?


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## Jenny_in_Chico (Feb 4, 2010)

I was never bullied in school. My 2 experiences with bullying are:

1. When I was 8, I moved to a new neighborhood, and made friends with a girl. Her best friend was jealous, and would follow me around and threaten me. I was scared, and tried to avoid her. The girl I was friends with was a terrible friend, and would mentally bully me within our friendship (to the point of tears), which actually causes me shame today. I can't believe I was so desperate for friendship that I put up with it! After a few months I dropped her and became friends with the other girl (which is SUCH a little girl thing to do). Even though she was the initial aggressor, she was a much better friend than the first friend.

2. When I was 12, older high school girls targeted me and my best friend for aggression, but they never actually touched us. They would drive past, threaten us, spit at us, etc. Eventually they stopped. Now I wish that I had fought back, despite my fear, because in retrospect I think I could have taken them. 

Interestingly, I was never bullied by boys, and I think that at that time in Texas (30 yrs ago) it was just not seen for boys to bully girls. Now is probably a different story.

From these experiences I learned a valuable lesson: the unpleasantness of fighting back or causing a scene is much to be preferred over the remembered shame of doing nothing. 

"Cowards die many times before their deaths. The valiant never taste of death but once." from the play "Julius Caesar" by William Shakespeare.


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## Jenny_in_Chico (Feb 4, 2010)

Gordon Nore said:


> A part of that experience that has remained with me are the relentlessly stupid things adults told me: "They're just jealous." *"If you don't show signs of weakness, they'll respect you."* I used to think, why would I want the respect of people who are so cowardly as to gang up to pick on someone?


 
For some people with a particular psychological profile, fear = respect. They will dominate everyone around them as much as they can, and will only moderate their behavior toward people who refuse to be dominated. Human relationships are in many ways just like non-human primate relationships...aggression is used as a tool to maintain status and gain access to resources. But just like with monkeys and apes, there are individuals who can maintain dominance status through subtle cues, without resorting to overt physical aggression, and there are others which are not sophisticated enough to employ this strategy.


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## Jade Tigress (Feb 4, 2010)

Gordon Nore said:


> As a teacher, I see parents and kids struggle with issues that sometimes are bullying and sometimes are not. Bullying by nature is persistent. Virtually all children will at one time or another be a victim or perpetrator of mistreatment of others. *Thus there is bullying behaviour -- whether it's shunning, physical abuse, name calling, etc.* It's wrong behaviour, of course, but it's not necessarily bullying.
> 
> That's enormously complicated for a child to figure out. Kids will often express their frustrations in the most global terms. "They're all bullying me." or "He hates me." Sometimes -- make that, a lot of times -- it's a one-off incident, or a misunderstanding. From my perspective, as a teacher, I have to follow up on all of them, so that actual bullying doesn't slip through.
> 
> Additionally, it's very complicated for youngsters who get labeled as bystanders. Kids get mixed messages, sometimes being told not to get involved in other people's business, then castigated for witnessing bullying and not doing anything about it.



That's a great point. Didn't think of it that way. :asian:


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## Drac (Feb 4, 2010)

I got bullied all through Jr and Sr High...I was short, heavyset and hated playing and talking about sports...I had the oppertunity to arrest one of my tormentors years later who believed that despite my uniform I was still the kid he use to beat on...Big mistake..


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## wushuguy (Feb 4, 2010)

Sometimes bullies don't know they're bullies, and sometimes kids get bullied for their own reasons....

Before 3rd grade i used to get bullied, being the only asian in a predominantly white school. at first i didn't understand what they were saying, because I didn't hear such language until I got to school. but it didn't feel right. Anyway, we moved and I got to a school where there was more of a mix of ethnic groups. however the damage was already done deep.

Later I did end up taking martial arts, because it was what I felt comfortable with. I didn't like the mainstream games and sports. so it made me even more dorky. anyway, taking martial arts let me to defend myself when needed, and at times i ended up actively seeking out bullies to put them in line... bullies didn't bother me anymore after junior high. but unknowingly, because my temper was short, i at times could lash out and end up being like the bullies i so hated... once i was having a bad day, and a friend of mine was annoying me too much. I snapped and said some words to him and pushed him... made him cry, and shocked myself. at that point, i realized I had become a bully, that i hated. That was the beginning of my break in martial arts, because I needed to be at peace with myself because I didn't like what I was becoming.

About that time my younger brother was starting junior high, and I was nearly finishing high school, and I told him to let me know if people pick on him, because he is a target, skinny asian like myself, but more difficult for him was he has juvenile arthritis and other problems that people don't usually understand. During that time, he never told me that he got beat up, pushed around, picked on, etc. nearly every day. It was a living hell for him, not just that he was constantly sick, but that everyone picked on him and he felt so alone...

When he was nearly graduated from high school and I had finished college, his friend came over for the first time, and acted strangely when he disturbed. I didn't understand why. but my brother told me that all his friends, and most his class is terrified of me because they knew my temper and that i really could beat them severely. I felt saddened when hearing that because it reminded me of how I acted in high school. Bullies can regret their actions too...

My brother never told me that he was getting picked on, because he knew I'd go to his school, and beat the **** out of those kids who picked on him, which would land me in a lot of trouble, like possibly not graduating high school, or after turning 18 even going to jail. so he endured getting picked on and not saying anything because he didn't want any trouble to me. But by his not saying, it gave free reign to those bullies because they knew they could pick on him and he wouldn't tell anyone... but because that time had passed, and because I had changed a bit, so he told me what he went through in junior and senior high. it was so heart breaking.

So sometimes kids have reasons they are bullied, but in any way, they should still tell someone to get help. And sometimes kids don't realize they became a bully...

Bullies don't realize that when they bully others, that others hate them and want to get back at them some how. In my case, they couldn't directly take revenge on me, but when they found my brother was easy pickings, many people picked on him more.

One thing of note too, although in high school most of my schoolmates and I got along and most people think of me as a nice guy, there are those who got bullied by me who think otherwise. So i think many bullies in school aren't perceived as bullies by every one, so it is not easy to recognize who is a bully, because even the supposedly quiet ones may at one time or another bully a different kid...

Growing up was painful in different ways, but I think it is up to the individual, if one is seeking change, whether he was a bully or got bullied, there's a way to grow from those things. Those things shape who we are and how we perceive things. Hopefully one has the will to learn from the past and change their life for the better rather than allow the painful memories to ruin their future.


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## MA-Caver (Feb 4, 2010)

Love the responses and personal testimonies given here... it helps (us) see more about such behavior and possibly understand it. 
I've learned through my years of being bullied that it would keep on until I stood up for myself and if anything caused enough pain (not necessarily winning the fight) that they realized that this little doggy is best left alone. 
Twice I recall fighting off antagonists. Once I remember physically stopping a verbal barrage in class... (the guy was sitting behind me with his partner sitting beside him (behind me and to the left) and kept ragging on me in that prison whisper volume and I kept ignoring it until the fateful words "...your momma" caused me to spin around in my seat and hammerblow/fisted the guy in his temple and spin back around before the teacher even saw what happened. He left me alone after that... his partner... well that's another story.
Another guy (and this was shortly after I began MA) shoved me up against the wall (forget the reasons why) and was prepared to give me a sound beating... I just gotten out of band class and had my flute in my nice hard case in my hand... that went up once, twice, three times against his head and he let go quick and I walked off... we became friends after that. 

No, MA isn't the cure all... but I'll say that it does help reduce and even STOP in many cases the abuse one receives. 

I learned via hindsight that it's a normal process of growing up. There are always going to be those who will try to better themselves over you and there are those who will take their mad against their parents out on you because they can and there are those who feel powerful when they do get another kid to cower before them. 
Getting picked on can be detrimental in the long run, a wonderful fictional example would be the George McFly character from Back to the Future... but standing up for one's self would have a good results too (sometimes) also shown by the same movie. 
If bullies or those who shun kids get caught in the act then, yeah they should be punished but I think not quite as severe as where they'll get in trouble with their parents when they find out... this only causes resentment and possible retaliatory actions against the "snitch". But those getting shunned or picked on should be given the tools to stand up for themselves. Either fighting back or having ways to show that they are indeed an asset to the class, school, social group, clique or whatever so they're appreciated. 
Yet you'll have the quiet ones and you'll have the ones who outshine everyone else academically but are lackluster socially. Part of life, part of growing up. 
Remember _almost_ all of our present communications technology (computers, cellphones, et al)  was created by those same shy nerdy geeks who channeled their inner frustrations and longing to belong into their work. The bullies and the rest... probably work in the manufacturing plants along Silicon Valley. :lol: How's THAT for justice?


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## Ken Morgan (Feb 4, 2010)

I went to Kindergarten through to grade 13 with 60% of the same kids, so we all knew each other well. Amongst us no one really allowed bullying to take place, though there was some.

For me, from about 3rd grade to maybe grade 11, I suddenly became very self conscience and shy for some reason. As the shortest person in the class, average marks, average in sports, but great in art, I was never picked on much. The odd time it happened, I stood up to them and gave as good as I got. Not easy when the person youre standing up to is damn near 18 taller, and youre scared to death.

My son was picked on for some reason in grade school, so I put him in boxing for two years. I always told him he was never allowed to start a fight, but he had my permission to end them, and we would deal with the consequences. After two months of boxing someone started something physical with him, he ended it quickly and got suspended. After about the third time of him ending it quickly, he was never picked on again, and in fact he started standing up for others. 

You know what guys? As adults we still bully people, generally we shun people who we find dont fit our stereotypical view of a social friend. You go out with colleagues for lunch, and you dont invite someone. Someone messed up badly on a presentation you were working on in a group, so we avoid them. Someone has bad hygiene. Someone was some wacko ideas. We shun all these people. 

Should we be paying more attention to them? Should we be actually getting closer to them? Just asking.


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## Blade96 (Feb 4, 2010)

"Bullying is a pattern of repeated agressive behavior with negative intent directed from one person or group of people to another where there is a power difference." Dan Olweus, Swedish psychologist

sorry, MACaver, but I really reject the notion that 'its just part of growing up'

By that you would have to say that persecuting people and violating democratic rights is part of growing up as well.

All people form hierarchies - its part of our 'animalism' if you will. But that actually promotes social stability and discipline. Both of which are healthy. But bullying isnt forming a healthy hierarchy.

The quote helps explain why people can't stop bullying on their own, and why its not their fault. 

And, Bruno, your red t - shirt and killer story is not as complex as the problem of bullying. Saying 'oh he/she can just change and put on a green shirt and it'll stop' Stopping persecutors is a lot harder and much more complex than that.

As for MA, it was easy for me to drive all of my feelings into my Kata. since you have to pretend your fighting someone anyway, with all my bad feelings I have. I suppose that's why I probably like Kata the best! And I suppose thats what helped me win the gold medal at competition. I do all of my Shotokan with feeling.


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## Bruno@MT (Feb 5, 2010)

Blade96 said:


> And, Bruno, your red t - shirt and killer story is not as complex as the problem of bullying. Saying 'oh he/she can just change and put on a green shirt and it'll stop' Stopping persecutors is a lot harder and much more complex than that.
> .



Of course. I just wanted to use a simple analogy to explain my point in that I am not blaming the victim, but sometimes we can take control to stop being the one who got bullied.

For some it stops when they learn to understand and interpret the social rules. For others it stops when they physically fight back. And for others it doesn't end at all until they move.


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## Jenny_in_Chico (Feb 5, 2010)

I have discovered the reason that you were bullied...



MA-Caver said:


> Another guy (and this was shortly after I began MA) shoved me up against the wall (forget the reasons why) and was prepared to give me a sound beating... *I just gotten out of band class and had my flute in my nice hard case in my hand*... that went up once, twice, three times against his head and he let go quick and I walked off... we became friends after that.


 
You were male, and you played the flute. *The flute. *


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## Ironcrane (Feb 5, 2010)

Personally, I felt this article didn't go into why kinds get bullied at all. But rather what happens when kids get bullied. I suppose I'm being picky, but there is a difference to me.


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## Gordon Nore (Feb 5, 2010)

Ironcrane said:


> Personally, I felt this article didn't go into why kinds get bullied at all. But rather what happens when kids get bullied. I suppose I'm being picky, but there is a difference to me.



I think that's a valid point. I have a couple of unscientific theories. First, to make an analogy to common street crimes, like muggings, I believe victims are selected. Not every passerby is an ideal target, so the perpetrator is looking for someone who is likely to have what he wants and appears vulnerable enough to overpower if need be. 

The second part of my cock-eyed theory is that victims of bullies are people who will have an emotional reaction to the act of bullying. A bully may test his or her tactics to see who will react. I remember a kid in grade nine who was terribly shy, quite overweight, with a fair, soft complexion and a high pitched voice. He very quickly became a target.

Now I had been a victim of repeated taunts and a abuse in that same school during my seventh and eighth grade years, so when they started going after this guy and others, it was like I got a reprieve.


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## wushuguy (Feb 5, 2010)

Jenny_in_Chico said:


> I have discovered the reason that you were bullied...
> 
> 
> 
> You were male, and you played the flute. *The flute. *



That shows that people don't realize how good men who play flute are good at fingering techniques... 

I played the flute too, mostly because i got bullied by other kids who didn't want me playing the same things as them. but from playing the flute, fingers are much more nimble which gives greater prowess in ... grappling techniques and locking....


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## MA-Caver (Feb 5, 2010)

Blade96 said:


> sorry, MACaver, but I really reject the notion that 'its just part of growing up'
> 
> By that you would have to say that persecuting people and violating democratic rights is part of growing up as well.
> 
> All people form hierarchies - its part of our 'animal-ism' if you will. But that actually promotes social stability and discipline. Both of which are healthy. But bullying isnt forming a healthy hierarchy.


I've not a problem with your disagreement, but I'll counter that it's part of growing up for a LOT... but not ALL people. Some folks I know have gone through their whole lives (to date) and have never experienced bullying to any degree. They've SEEN it certainly at one time or another and also some may have participated to a degree. But it is part of "growing up"... 
When as adults we engage in bullying behavior (what you call persecuting, violating human and democratic rights) is not part of growing up because you're already there and that IS wrong. But I never said bullying was right to begin with. It isn't but you ask a group of people and I think you'll find a number have had the same/similar/akin experiences. 
We as human beings have an innate drive to be violent, it's part of our make up. It's why we break out into wars, break things in anger, create violent media (tv, games, books, sports, movies, et al) to appease that part of ourselves, punch and hit and study how to punch, hit, kick. We are violent creatures when riled and even then we seek something to appease that nature of ourselves. How we each deal with it directed at or to us is left to us. 
Bullying does help sometimes for a kid break to out of their shell and eventually shine as an adult that we all come to admire/respect. 
Then again it could have adverse effects and we have another Columbine shooter. Hell, at one time or another I wanted to take my dad's guns and shoot those bastards to red mist. But I didn't. 
It's a crap shoot. 



Blade96 said:


> The quote helps explain why people can't stop bullying on their own, and why its not their fault.


Probably it's not their fault, probably they're acting out their own anger, fear, frustration from an abusive home life. Or they just get off on power and control, because they feel they have none, or because they just like the feeling they get, as warped as it may be to the rest of us. Again, a crap shoot to the whys and wherefores. 



Blade96 said:


> And, Bruno, your red t - shirt and killer story is not as complex as the problem of bullying. Saying 'oh he/she can just change and put on a green shirt and it'll stop' Stopping persecutors is a lot harder and much more complex than that.


 Of course it is, and as he stated in his reply it was just an analogy. But have a kid who might be a target make themselves LESS of a target holds true. As I mentioned when I fought back against my own antagonists the bullying got dramatically less... and potential bullies left me well enough alone as well. 



Blade96 said:


> As for MA, it was easy for me to drive all of my feelings into my Kata. since you have to pretend your fighting someone anyway, with all my bad feelings I have. I suppose that's why I probably like Kata the best! And I suppose thats what helped me win the gold medal at competition. I do all of my Shotokan with feeling.


 It does show the positive aspects of MA right there. Kudos to your gold. :asian:


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## Jenny_in_Chico (Feb 5, 2010)

wushuguy said:


> That shows that people don't realize how good men who play flute are good at fingering techniques...
> 
> I played the flute too, mostly because i got bullied by other kids who didn't want me playing the same things as them. but from playing the flute, fingers are much more nimble which gives greater prowess in ... grappling techniques and locking....


 
Yes, I know...because I also played the flute in school.  However, no boy would have been caught dead playing the flute, becuse it was considered a girls instrument. I don't think your "finger nimbleness" argument would have flown very far.


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## Blade96 (Feb 5, 2010)

MA-Caver said:


> It does show the positive aspects of MA right there. Kudos to your gold. :asian:


 
Thank you very much, MACaver.


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## MA-Caver (Feb 6, 2010)

Jenny_in_Chico said:


> wushuguy said:
> 
> 
> > That shows that people don't realize how good men who play flute are good at fingering techniques...
> ...


Obviously the (antagonists) aren't fans of Jethro Tull. :uhyeah: 

As far as finger dexterity goes, I already had that with my sign-language/finger spelling skills, and my girlfriend _loves_ me. 
Besides the flute is a beautifully sounding instrument if played right.


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## kungfu penguin (Feb 6, 2010)

being disabled  i was the target of a lot of abuse [a lot!!]  i had so much rage in me  i snapped and busted a kid's front teeth with a padlock and just kept hitting   it took 3 teachers to pull me off him   the only reason i was not expelled  was because i was physcially and verbally abused by this boy for about 5 years.    also the boy's own mother said the litlle s*&t deserved it!   but was suspended for 3 weeks   after that  kids left me alone until my senior year, and i was handcuffed to a bathroom stall and beaten to snot [6 tough kids]  i could not even graduate with my class   i found each and evry one of those boys after grad   1 on 1 was not the odds the wanted   then after that i attempted suicide for the first of 4 times   these kids hated me  but i hated myself more  i still deal with these issuses today   self esteem has kept me out of a lot good things  in my life   all because i was a  victim of "cool" people


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## MA-Caver (Feb 6, 2010)

kungfu penguin said:


> being disabled  i was the target of a lot of abuse [a lot!!]  i had so much rage in me  i snapped and busted a kid's front teeth with a padlock and just kept hitting   it took 3 teachers to pull me off him   the only reason i was not expelled  was because i was physcially and verbally abused by this boy for about 5 years.    also the boy's own mother said the litlle s*&t deserved it!   but was suspended for 3 weeks   after that  kids left me alone until my senior year, and i was handcuffed to a bathroom stall and beaten to snot [6 tough kids]  i could not even graduate with my class   i found each and evry one of those boys after grad   1 on 1 was not the odds the wanted   then after that i attempted suicide for the first of 4 times   these kids hated me  but i hated myself more  i still deal with these issuses today   self esteem has kept me out of a lot good things  in my life   all because i was a  victim of "cool" people


Yeah I gone through the same thing up until the 9th grade I was the go to guy if you were pissed off and needed to vent your crap out on someone physically. I was an easy target and so much fun because I flew into a rage that must've been a sight to see. After I started learning the arts and really fought back the **** got less and less. I never had a gang beating like you had and am thankful for it... my heart and warrior's soul goes out to you for surviving that. 
That which doesn't kill us makes us stronger and I honestly believe that... trouble is getting those to believe it themselves. Surviving beatings from bullies, abusers, etc. shows that we are stronger than the ones who inflicted the beatings... pain heals and with the right attitude makes us better in avoiding it. 

In retrospect I pity those poor dumb bastards and pity bullies today. They got lots of problems. I won't tolerate it when I see it among kids, and parent's ire be damned I'll stop a bully and give 'em a piece of my mind, making them feel small and petty.


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## Blade96 (Feb 6, 2010)

KungFuPenguin, I feel for you. That happened to me too. all the rage and everything. Its a very familiar to me. and you take it out on much more than just the ones who hurt you. Sometimes you take it out on others, like your own family. 

I'd like to point out something though.

I'd hate to admit that anything good came from my past. but it did. 

I developed a very fierce protective streak so that I will defend ayone who suffers the smallest sign of mistreatment. I do not hang around cliquish people for example. I am a floater. I 'float' between groups. and I talk to everybody, even those who are different.

I learned to judge the character of men (and women) When you have mostly known bad people in life, and not enough good people, you learn how to recognize not so good streaks in people quickly.

I became strong. so that I can say 'stop! no more!"

Shotokan helps develop myself spiritually and get to know myself ('seek perfection of character' is one of the Twenty Guiding Principles) That and know yourself, then know others. I think it fits very well with me and my past and my life. and who i'm becoming.

These things I developed, my wish is that people can learn them without being subjected to bullies. How I learned them is not a good way, and i do not recommend it =]

You let it be a part of who you now are. As Simba was told in the movie the Lion King ' The past can hurt. But you have 2 choices. You can either run from it, or learn from it'

I know this isnt related to the topic 'why do kids get bullied' but I felt it necessary to let people know I see now some good came from my past. Now I channel my rage into positive things. Like putting all my efforts and strength into things like my Kata.

_I'm learning now._


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## AlanE (Feb 15, 2010)

I have a "why," and I hope an inspiring outcome. Long...I was on a roll!

Florida, 1973-1980, age 8-15. My town had a machine (Southern mob) and my father (an attorney) refused to work for them. He told us to expect some trouble and we got it. Routine troubles from teachers and kids. But country living builds strength (I was unaware we had any money! Good parents) and 2 years in military school (with trouble encountered by sheltered me at 14 and 15) had me coming back to my hometown school strong in 11th grade. I missed home. One by one I saw the ol' gang, the ones I didn't like. Was it dramatic? In an unexpected way it was.

[I still had many other struggles to overcome. No one ever knows just how bad something *could* get. I'd soon be 100% alone, lost both parents and my sister, but at this point I'm confident.] Chump is high on marijuana by a stop sign just off school property, sitting down. I walk up to him and just then recognized him. I was getting fired up! Im looking at this guy slide up the sign to his feet to say, "Hey man," or something like that. I understood I was healthy and I felt bad for him. I had already won. My anger passed fast.

No formal MA training yet. Lots of What the F training in military school in Georgia which was 50% US population and 50% non-US (Hispanic) population. That was the Contra-Nicaragua years. For safety, education, and military training for the future, some American military academies were populated in this way by students from Honduras, Dominican Republic, etc. I had friends on both sides, and I had enemies on both sides. My worst exchange for feeling stupid and helpless was in my first 2 weeks being slapped beat down by a druggie named Campos. I lost a bottom tooth for a few hours in another surprise attack. Things improved after that. Luckily I was one of those fast reflexes guys, and I got tired of pain and seeing higher ranks abuse lower ranks and deal drugs. Slap boxing contests were popular. Somehow I was good after my eye healed. Most of all, I was my parents' hope. They had no idea, writing me cheerful letters, and I was even trying to get good grades in the craziness. 

I did not deserve to be bullied off and on for years. It hurt like it hurts for everyone. 

Victims of bullies from the opposite gender must be believed (verbal or physical) and given a positive example. No one should be rude and disrespectful to me to avoid fitting a stereotype, or to make a new stereotype. That's ridiculous. Me, the person, takes precedence over someone's image promoting. But it happens. Why do I focus on gender relations as a way to escape the effects of bullying? Because it ties us together (circle of life Blade96 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





) and can heal. Or it doesn't tie us together and we have victims promoting an unhealthy brand of interaction. Who are the victims? 

Everyone. 

We see, watch, and fear the other gender more than our own. Statistics are used and abused for support. The media has its own agenda. Whats the truth? Notwithstanding very legitimate reasons to fear the numerous criminals in the world, do people really fear the opposite gender the most? Do men fear women even if bullied by mostly men previously? Do women fear men even if bullied entirely by women previously? Sure, because bullying strikes at the core of confidence and begs, "Why me?" It makes a person shut down (bullys intention?). My fear is improperly applied laws. 

Those I consider bullies like to tell how tough they are. They intentionally hurt others. They may have a respected title and be considered reasonable or inspiring. They have supporters that mimic them so they can be equally strong, privileged, or safe. Abusing power, which everyone has in varying amounts, is bullying. 

Bullies hurt others because they can. Like all abusers, they attempt to convince their victims they deserved the abuse. They dont see themselves as abusers. They deny it in order to continue doing it. They point to flaws in the person theyre abusing, and insult third parties advocating against abuse (anti-slavery movement, anti-torture movement, etc.) as weak, impractical, or unrealistic in their view of the harsh world. They obtain fans and followers using popular rally topics to increase their security and room to abuse. They operate in conditions of lax laws, or laws they control. They give subjective justifications for abuse in an attempt to control groups of persons bound by restraints. They're more cruel when there are few consequences. They teach bullying to witnesses who believed it worked, and teach victims who will displace their retaliation on new victims. They are often part of a culture that says, Everybody is doing it, not just me. Its no big deal. To them, it will never become a big deal unless they get hurt, found out, or have the tables turned on them. Their conscience will only grow after a fall from grace. They become accustomed to having advantages and a feeling of power and respect. They exist in their own world and call it so. 

Actions that exclusively rely on ones conscience, where there are no laws, are the most difficult - and the most important. 

Being the opposite gender is hard on all of us at one time or another. We are all the opposite gender 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Heal gender relationships and heal children. Heal children and heal most of the bullying problems. Gender-based bullying, or playing along with it can make victims feel over half the world is against them. 

The results of bullying look back at us every day. Are hard times from bullying a normal part of the growing process? There are other ways to get strong, Im sure! I can be pushed to exceed previous limits and still understand sacrifice. I dont have to be bullied and without self-esteem, or lose members of my family, to understand sacrifice. Suppose one cant recover on ones own?

We need each other. An elderly friend whose groceries I bagged, saved my life after my parents were gone, after my parents first saved me by adopting me. This lady looked at me! Looked in my eyes and said youre polite but youre in pain. How the!!!??? Much as Id like to take credit because I sacrificed, I cant because others sacrificed in order for me to live, by giving me positive examples.

Prevent bullying by examining who you shun: the criminal or the merely immature? The people who require you to be responsible and accountable, or the people who encourage your poor behavior? Do you intentionally remind someone of their weakness? Why?

Prevent bullying by loving your students (boundaries!), the clumsy person with gender-based confusion, and your wife or husband. Those are places where we can make a difference with bullying.


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