# Inheritors Of The Art



## MJS (Feb 14, 2012)

While surfing the web, reading various sites, and talking to different people in the Modern Arnis community, I've seen people talk about being an inheritor/successor to the art of Modern Arnis.  Now, I'm sure that GM Remy said things to alot of people, and I'm sure that some people have taken advantage of the man.  Hey, if he actually designated someone as a successor/inheritor, then so be it, as long as it was done with a clear head, knowing fully what he was doing. 

So, are there in fact successors/inheritors of the art?  If so, who are they?  Should we have a successor/inheritor?

Hopefully we can have a good discussion here, and some of the lurkers will actually come out of the shadows and post.


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## MJS (Feb 14, 2012)

IMO, there was and always will be 1 person who was in charge of the art, and that man is GM Remy Presas.  Just like Kajukenbo...there was only 1 Sijo.  Kenpo...there was only 1 Ed Parker.  Many people in these arts, never get promoted to 10th, instead, staying at 9th (GM) out of respect for the founders.  

Sure, there are numerous Modern Arnis groups that continue to spread the art, in memory of GM Remy, but AFAIK, there isn't anyone who was deemed a successor/inheritor...well, unless they gave that title to themselves, I dont know.


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## MJS (Feb 15, 2012)

Wow!  88 views, no replies other than mine.  Somehow I'm not surprised.  So many people pumping up their own events, so many making claims that they were with the Prof. so much....where are all these people now?


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## sfs982000 (Feb 15, 2012)

As a student of the martial arts, wouldn't it be somewhat safe to say that all students are inheritors of the arts?  Not in the sense that we're in charge of a system or organization, but the knowledge base itself of the arts.  On the subject of Arnis, my only experience with it personnally came in the form of a seminar I attended back in the mid 80's with Jeff Arnold.


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## Rich Parsons (Feb 15, 2012)

MJS said:


> Wow! 88 views, no replies other than mine. Somehow I'm not surprised. So many people pumping up their own events, so many making claims that they were with the Prof. so much....where are all these people now?



A single person? I think the answer is no. I know he told people stuff in person. He once told me I could go to Sweden with him and be his protoge. I had to stay nad take tests for my classes for my degree from U of Mich. Remy understood. (* Yes I call him Remy, as he asked me too. Others caled him only Professor or GM or ... *)

I know he did have a few versions of wills floating around and some documents before that detailing the people who he wanted to be part of the board after his passing. That being said, I wonder if the Will (* not sure which one *) will ever be executed.

I think I am one of the people who is actively working to keep the art alive and spreading. By no means do I think I am the only (* Looks at last July in Buffalo for short list of people and add in all the other instructors who have clubs and schools *) as I know others are out there teaching and trying to do respect by their teacher.


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## Carol (Feb 15, 2012)

Unfortunately Professor Presas left us before I began my training, so I never had a chance to meet the fellow personally.  

From what I understand, he promised many things to many people...he was a big-hearted guy who thought the world of those close to him.

I don't think there was or will be one successor.  His students who have survived him have kept on keeping on....I happen to think the Professor would be overjoyed to see people still actively doing his art today.

On a secondary note...I think the notion of a "successor" is a dying concept....perhaps that's a topic better suited for another thread.


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## MJS (Feb 15, 2012)

sfs982000 said:


> As a student of the martial arts, wouldn't it be somewhat safe to say that all students are inheritors of the arts?  Not in the sense that we're in charge of a system or organization, but the knowledge base itself of the arts.  On the subject of Arnis, my only experience with it personnally came in the form of a seminar I attended back in the mid 80's with Jeff Arnold.



You know....I like that.   Like I said, IMO, there can only be 1 Prof.  I think that whether we directly or indirectly trained with him, we did 'inherit' a small piece, which hopefully is being spread to others, so the art lives on.


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## MJS (Feb 15, 2012)

Rich Parsons said:


> A single person? I think the answer is no. I know he told people stuff in person. He once told me I could go to Sweden with him and be his protoge. I had to stay nad take tests for my classes for my degree from U of Mich. Remy understood. (* Yes I call him Remy, as he asked me too. Others caled him only Professor or GM or ... *)
> 
> I know he did have a few versions of wills floating around and some documents before that detailing the people who he wanted to be part of the board after his passing. That being said, I wonder if the Will (* not sure which one *) will ever be executed.
> 
> I think I am one of the people who is actively working to keep the art alive and spreading. By no means do I think I am the only (* Looks at last July in Buffalo for short list of people and add in all the other instructors who have clubs and schools *) as I know others are out there teaching and trying to do respect by their teacher.



Hey Rich,

Hope that all is well.   No, I didn't mean to imply 1 person, but instead many people.  And yes, you're right, you're one of the many, who're keeping it alive.   There are people who followed him around everywhere, there are some that trained with him from time to time.  Like I said, I'm sure the said alot of different things to people, but as I said, since the words were being tossed around, I was just looking for clarification.


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## MJS (Feb 15, 2012)

Carol said:


> Unfortunately Professor Presas left us before I began my training, so I never had a chance to meet the fellow personally.



Fortunately, I had the chance to meet/train with him a few times.  



> From what I understand, he promised many things to many people...he was a big-hearted guy who thought the world of those close to him.



True, and this is why I made the inquiry with this thread. 



> I don't think there was or will be one successor.  His students who have survived him have kept on keeping on....I happen to think the Professor would be overjoyed to see people still actively doing his art today.



Well, I'd like to this that, but going on what I've seen, I have to wonder.



> On a secondary note...I think the notion of a "successor" is a dying concept....perhaps that's a topic better suited for another thread.



IMO, they're one in the same, no?


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## Brian R. VanCise (Feb 15, 2012)

*I think* if you had the opportunity to train with him or with one of his instructors and this training had meaning to you then you are an "inheritor" in some manner.  There was no one person who inherited "Modern Arnis" from him.  There were however many, many people that his teachings affected in a fantastic manner!  He was a true inspiration to so many!


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## Brian R. VanCise (Feb 15, 2012)

Oh and Rich is one of the few who really got the goods!


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## mtbates (Feb 21, 2012)

Here's one of them. I'm holding in my hand the Last Will and Testament of Remy A. Presas. It was written on my computer, in my home, with my wife as a legal witness. In it is states: "I direct that my executor form a legal corporation to promote the Art of Modern Arnis. I direct that the mission of this organization will be to promote,teach,and preserve the Art of Modern Arnis, which has been my life's passion and work....." quite obiviously, this was never done and those responsible failed miserably. Additionally, along with this authors name, several other names were included as members of this board. To this day, I have never been contacted in any way shape or form
For those interested, please go to www.remypresasimaf.com. You will see I list myself as a "guardian" of Modern Arnis. In fact, although he had ample time, the late Professor never named a successor per se. Rather, he entrusted many people to carry on his "life's passion and work"
How's that for a reply???


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## mtbates (Feb 21, 2012)

Oh yea, at the same time the will was being done,  we had had an awesome seminar,  and I was  hosting a birthday party for T.J. Hartman. May 14th 2000.
talk about multi-tasking!!!


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## MJS (Feb 21, 2012)

mtbates said:


> Here's one of them. I'm holding in my hand the Last Will and Testament of Remy A. Presas. It was written on my computer, in my home, with my wife as a legal witness. In it is states: "I direct that my executor form a legal corporation to promote the Art of Modern Arnis. I direct that the mission of this organization will be to promote,teach,and preserve the Art of Modern Arnis, which has been my life's passion and work....." quite obiviously, this was never done and those responsible failed miserably. Additionally, along with this authors name, several other names were included as members of this board. To this day, I have never been contacted in any way shape or form
> For those interested, please go to www.remypresasimaf.com. You will see I list myself as a "guardian" of Modern Arnis. In fact, although he had ample time, the late Professor never named a successor per se. Rather, he entrusted many people to carry on his "life's passion and work"
> How's that for a reply???



Interestingly enough, I did see inheritor, but that has since changed.  Anyways, I was just curious, as there do seem to be people out there that use certain titles.  I was just curious if the Prof. ever officially appointed anyone or if people took advantage of him, during his last days.


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## Bob Hubbard (Feb 21, 2012)

The will was discussed here way back when.
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?10802-last-will-and-testament
Posted for historical reference not to pick at old wounds. 

Regarding titles....GM Presas had a lot of them it seems.  I suspect he would have named someone a Sithlord had he been a Star Wars fan.


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## MJS (Feb 21, 2012)

Well, thats an oldie...lol.  However, that thread, IMO, just goes on to further prove my point....that there was alot of questionable things that went on.  IMO I'd also imagine that if a real, true will were out there, that it'd be done in a professional fashion, ie: in a mutual location, such as in the presence of a lawyer, have it notarized, etc, rather than in someones house, with others signing on behalf of someone, etc.


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## James Miller (Feb 21, 2012)

I'm not going to get into bunch of details here, but Remy was a gypsy. It would be hard for my to get him into a firm with the schedule he had. Remy did things on the road because of his life style.


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## MJS (Feb 21, 2012)

James Miller said:


> I'm not going to get into bunch of details here, but Remy was a gypsy. It would be hard for my to get him into a firm with the schedule he had. Remy did things on the road because of his life style.



True, but one would think that given the importance of it.....

but in any case, since that wasnt done, thus the end result.


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## Rich Parsons (Feb 21, 2012)

MJS said:


> True, but one would think that given the importance of it.....
> 
> but in any case, since that wasnt done, thus the end result.




Mike,

This is my personal belief only. I have no proof no conversation with him, only putting pieces of data together. 

When Remy left the Phillipines after his ambassador passport was taken form him by the government. It was around the issue of the President at the time Marcos who wanted control of  the system. If he had set up a permanent structor with a single person it would make it too easy for someone to use laws he did not know to take his life's work from him. He saw it start to crumble in his homeland, and left the country and moved to the US. If you see the regions of the people over time he worked with, you see that he might say something slightly different in terms for a technique, but it fit with the local school or with the local region. His point was that he wanted to teach and have people learn and be happy. Not deal with people who might be trying to scam him. 

Just my opinion. I have no proof. So read with a grain of salt.


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## Bob Hubbard (Feb 21, 2012)

Makes sense to me Rich.  Spread it out so no one can possibly 'take' it all.  You end up with a nice diverse group of "brother and sister" styles, similar enough to be family, but just that hair different enough to not be 'clones'.


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## MJS (Feb 21, 2012)

Rich Parsons said:


> Mike,
> 
> This is my personal belief only. I have no proof no conversation with him, only putting pieces of data together.
> 
> ...





Bob Hubbard said:


> Makes sense to me Rich.  Spread it out so no one can possibly 'take' it all.  You end up with a nice diverse group of "brother and sister" styles, similar enough to be family, but just that hair different enough to not be 'clones'.



Points taken guys.   Hey, by all means, and this was said earlier...IMO, I'd rather see ALL of GM Remys students continue to share the art, spreading it, and keep it growing, rather than seeing people running around, trying to take credit for something they aren't.  I'm sure he had alot of visitors in his last days.  Were all those visitors there with good intent, or did they see something to try to cash in on?


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## Guro Harold (Feb 21, 2012)

James Miller said:


> I'm not going to get into bunch of details here, but Remy was a gypsy. It would be hard for my to get him into a firm with the schedule he had. Remy did things on the road because of his life style.


Hi James,

Respectfully, you are speaking in a very familiar tone regarding GM Presas. Since we don't know that much about you, may I ask how long have you been training Modern Arnis and how long did you know the Professor?

Thanks


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## Datu Tim Hartman (Feb 22, 2012)

I know I shouldn't be posting on this thread while taking cold medicine, but I feel the need to chime in. There are 3 will to my knowledge. 

1st. by David Pajack from Buffalo, NY in the late 80's.
2nd. by Brett Salafia from Connecticut in the 90's.
3rd. by Kevin Black & Ida Cummaford in Buffalo, NY April 2000.

I can't comment on the 1st two, but I know all about how the third one came about. Kevin Black is one on my students from my home school in Buffalo. He is also a 2nd degree Black Belt who tested under Prof. The Professor would quite often ask the members of his organization to help out with his personal affairs. I hosted Prof. in April of '00. While he was in town he met with Kevin at my house and went into a separate room to discuss what he wanted in the will. 

After Prof left for his next seminar Kevin went back to the firm he worked at and prepare the will. A month later Kevin, with his wife (also an attorney) accompanied me to Remy's Seminar and my birthday bash that Mike Bates was hosting. Before the weekend was over Kevin and Ida sat down with Remy to sign and finalize the will. 

As mentioned before, this is how Prof. did things. I'm pretty sure that all three will where prepared free of charge. They helped out the Prof. because they liked him. And if anyone want to question the integrity of the attorneys that helped the Prof out, Pajack was an assist DA, Salafia has a similar position, and Black is now working for the FBI.


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## Datu Tim Hartman (Feb 22, 2012)

Now that I addressed the will, let me say this about who are the inheritors. I am, and everyone else who picked up a stick and trained with the Prof! We all share in the duty of carrying on the system.


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## jks9199 (Feb 22, 2012)

Datu Tim Hartman said:


> Now that I addressed the will, let me say this about who are the inheritors. I am, and everyone else who picked up a stick and trained with the Prof! We all share in the duty of carrying on the system.


I really like this statement.  Whatever our style, WE are the inheritors from our teachers, and we all share the responsibility to pass on what was given and shared with us.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Feb 22, 2012)

jks9199 said:


> I really like this statement.  Whatever our style, WE are the inheritors from our teachers, and we all share the responsibility to pass on what was given and shared with us.



Absolutely!!!


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## MJS (Feb 23, 2012)

Agreed, and as I said, I'm all for every student and teacher 'inheriting' some piece of the art and sharing it with others.  I was referring more though, to a person, group, etc, that blatently makes the claim/statement, that they are a sole heir/inheritor of something.


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## Datu Tim Hartman (Feb 26, 2012)

That was actually me. My computer is in the shop at the moment. I've been using my staffs computers and forgot to see if anyone was logged on MT. If everything goes right I'll have my machine back in the afternoon with a 2TB hard drive for media storage! :bangahead:



Guro Harold said:


> Hi James,
> 
> Respectfully, you are speaking in a very familiar tone regarding GM Presas. Since we don't know that much about you, may I ask how long have you been training Modern Arnis and how long did you know the Professor?
> 
> Thanks


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## Guro Harold (Feb 27, 2012)

Thanks Datu!


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## Datu Tim Hartman (Feb 27, 2012)

Could you send me a url of the site in question?



MJS said:


> Agreed, and as I said, I'm all for every student and teacher 'inheriting' some piece of the art and sharing it with others.  I was referring more though, to a person, group, etc, that blatently makes the claim/statement, that they are a sole heir/inheritor of something.


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## MJS (Feb 27, 2012)

Datu Tim Hartman said:


> Could you send me a url of the site in question?



Of course.  I'll PM you in a moment. 

Sent.


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## Mark Lynn (Mar 15, 2012)

Personally I don't see how anyone person or group could be the sole inheritors of Gm Remy's system of Modern Arnis.  GM Remy made his living on the road teaching at different seminars to different groups of people, generally martial artists in different arts.  He promoted Modern Arnis to be the "art within your art" so he taught differently to different groups.

Having attended several camps/seminars with various instructors in Modern Arnis, i.e. the Motts, Dan Anderson, Bram, Datu Dieter, Datu Hartman, Jeff Delaney, Remy Jr., Datu Kelly Worden, and seeing other instructors from the PI (Bambit, Gm Tongas) at these camps and such.  Generally they all teach different and have different skills, and different points of view on Modern Arnis and they all learned and trained with the same guy.  All of these individuals (and many more) spent years, months, days and hours training and learning from GM Remy, but they are all very different in their approaches to the art, their presentations, etc. etc.   

I don't believe it would be this diverse if he taught from a central school or location and everyone trained there and then spread out and promoted the art.  While he was teaching Modern Arnis, he promoted it as the "art within your art" therefore I believe that people would come away from training camps and seminars with different views because they filtered it through their primary arts.  Another reason I think the art is as diverse as is is was because the Professor taught from the view point of motion application which would lead to a even wider view instead of it being just this technique or that.  Then you have him teaching some things over here in the states like the empty hand anyos and then not teaching them in other areas and so on.  I remember being at my first camp and GM Remy telling my training partner (who was an instructor in Preying Mantis gung fu) that his anyo Isa was very good when he did it as if he was doing a mantis form.

With a teaching methodology like the Professor had, his life style, even his art it self, I don't see how any one person could claim to be the sole inheritor of the system.  And to be honest I don't think the Professor wanted a sole inheritor, rather I do believe he would be quite proud of the way things have turned out.  Maybe it is not quite what he envisioned but none the less to see the vast differences between his top students and where they have taken his art, I can help but believe he would be proud.

Another positive thing to have come out in recent years has been the seminars where the seniors are getting together and teaching; the symposium, Dan's Summer camp in 2005, Dieter Summer camps, and last years Reunion Camp hosted by Datu Hartman each one has gotten better and I believe the best is yet to come as differences are put aside. In my opinion the instruction at the camps has gotten better since GM Remy's passing and frankly the art itself has become stronger with the diversification of the teaching.


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## Zenjael (Mar 16, 2012)

The inheritor of the art carries a great responsibility for its survival.


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## DennisBreene (Jul 24, 2012)

My instructor studied with Master Presas for 6 years. Now, like many others, he is passing his knowledge on to a new generation of students (including this old codger). Most martial arts systems have a few centuries of formal existance and a certain level of codification starting in the 20th century. Grand Masters like Funikoshi, Hwang Kee, Emperado come to mind. Master Presas' system is relatively new in a formal sense. I expect that as his most skilled students emerge, they will continue to refine and promulgate the tenets of this wonderful art. Historically, all of the major systems seem to have gone through a similar time when the founding Master passes. We are fortunate that we can turn to videos of Master Presas and review his teachings.  From there it is up to the rising Masters to carry on the art and add to it. 





sfs982000 said:


> As a student of the martial arts, wouldn't it be somewhat safe to say that all students are inheritors of the arts?  Not in the sense that we're in charge of a system or organization, but the knowledge base itself of the arts.  On the subject of Arnis, my only experience with it personnally came in the form of a seminar I attended back in the mid 80's with Jeff Arnold.


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## Mark Lynn (Jul 27, 2012)

DennisBreene said:


> Most martial arts systems have a few centuries of formal existance and a certain level of codification starting in the 20th century. Grand Masters like Funikoshi, Hwang Kee, Emperado come to mind. Master Presas' system is relatively new in a formal sense.



Dennis
I disagree and agree with this statement in principle.  Most martial Art systems don't have a few centuries of formal existence, in fact most systems that we know of today have only recently been created most occurring in the 20th Century making them a little of 100years old and generally in the 80ys  and below range.  In fact looking at the history of the martial arts say Japanese Karate, TKD, Arnis (Kali and Escrima), Systema, Aikido, Kajukenpo, Savate, even many forms of Kung Fu are all recent creations.  Even Judo was created in the late 19th century.

But your point as I understand it is completely true in that Modern Arnis is a new art (just celebrating 50 years in 2007).

I know that some battlefield arts existed prior to 100 years ago but they don't really resemble the arts as they are taught today.




DennisBreene said:


> I expect that as his most skilled students emerge, they will continue to refine and promulgate the tenets of this wonderful art. Historically, all of the major systems seem to have gone through a similar time when the founding Master passes. We are fortunate that we can turn to videos of Master Presas and review his teachings.  From there it is up to the rising Masters to carry on the art and add to it.



What is even more fortunate is that you have an Modern Arnis instructor who studied with GM Presas for a decent amount of time and is passing on the art to you.  GM Remy's DVDs do help show the way but it is the new group of instructors who will now help the art to grow.

I'm glad to have found a Modern Arnis instructor, it is a great art.


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