# Defensive knife on campus?



## drewtoby (Dec 10, 2013)

I just realized that more people carry knives than you would think. Personally, I'm a bit hesitant, as a defensive knife can easily give you the edge/save your life but also land you in a world of trouble with the law, or escalate a situation enough to the point where someone pulls a gun. Or if your jumped and they get to the knife before you can, you gave them a weapon. I have had enough training and using my rough rider sunfish to realize that when someone has a knife, someone will get cut. That and fixed blades rule, as they don't collapse on your finger (still have a scar). 

With it being campus though, weapons are prohibited. Only tools are not %-}. I'm sure that most people carrying will be in for a world of hurt if they were caught, even with a two hand folder. I'm not comfortable bringing my sunfish for this reason. If you are going to get in trouble, you might as well carry a one hander. If you don't want to get in trouble, carry a tool.

Being said, I'm considering carrying a SAK Mini Champ or a Leatherman Juice to always have as a last resort. Both are great tools to have around, especially for my major. If only the jeep multi-tool were smaller, it's a one hand knife/multi-tool and allows for a better grip. Both the juice and mini champ have knives, and can also be used as a good impact tool (pliers/pen). Right now I'm leaning towards the SAK, as it is smaller and would be more easily concealable in my jean pocket.

I'm just not sure if either can do any good though, as the knives are small, need two hands to pull out, are not fixed (so only slashes), and the handles are kinda slick. That and my first line of defense should be good enough in most cases: my wallet with a fair amount of cash to please just about any mugger.

Would it even be worth bringing one of these tools? Should I go empty handed? Or should I go defensive? Either way, I know the element of surprise is key. Nobody sees or hears, nobody knows.


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## ballen0351 (Dec 10, 2013)

There are plenty of small defensive knives in the market that are easily hidden I'd buy one of them before a leather man a leather man is too cumbersome to help in a real emergency.  I carry this

http://www.kabar.com/knives/detail/76


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## Dirty Dog (Dec 10, 2013)

In anything remotely resembling a self defense situation, you will have approximately. 0.00001% chance of deploying the blade on a multi tool. 
Considering what it takes to get one out of the Velcro pouch, I doubt you could count on using one in any way at all. 

If you really think you need to carry a defensive knife, get one intended for that purpose. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk.


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## drewtoby (Dec 10, 2013)

Dirty Dog said:


> In anything remotely resembling a self defense situation, you will have approximately. 0.00001% chance of deploying the blade on a multi tool.
> Considering what it takes to get one out of the Velcro pouch, I doubt you could count on using one in any way at all.
> 
> If you really think you need to carry a defensive knife, get one intended for that purpose.
> ...



True. I'm kinda at a loss though. If I get caught (highly unlikely) with a defensive knife, I might get expelled if I can't argue it's a tool. 

Law wise, my state is very vague. But I should be fine even with a small one hand folder.

The thing I'm stuck on is this:

For defense you want an intimidating knife. But, in court you want a harmless looking knife.

If I used the knife, I know I would most likely be expelled. Better expelled and alive though. But, what about the trial? Wouldn't I look like just as much of a criminal if I were carrying an intimidating knife or two everywhere with me on campus for "self defense"? I would fear being charged as a criminal.

Or am I just over thinking it? Something like the Endura Ladybug might be middle ground. But Kershaw has some darn good knives...

Ps: I know I could carry something else, like a collapsible baton or what not. But this is for last ditch scenarios, and I doubt I could make the room to strike. It could also be grabbed too easily. A knife could be grabbed, but not so likely with the sharp blade and the resulting pain. A weak strike with a knife can still help a lot, with a baton not so much. This for when cooperation fails. As for a kubotan , I'm not really a fan of them.


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## K-man (Dec 10, 2013)

drewtoby said:


> True. I'm kinda at a loss though. If I get caught (highly unlikely) with a defensive knife, I might get expelled if I can't argue it's a tool.
> 
> Law wise, my state is very vague. But I should be fine even with a small one hand folder.
> 
> ...


As someone who never carries a weapon, can I ask why you feel the need to carry a knife, particularly at school?


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## Dirty Dog (Dec 10, 2013)

drewtoby said:


> True. I'm kinda at a loss though. If I get caught (highly unlikely) with a defensive knife, I might get expelled if I can't argue it's a tool.
> 
> Law wise, my state is very vague. But I should be fine even with a small one hand folder.
> 
> ...



 If I carry a defensive knife, (or any other weapon) I see no need for it to be intimidating; if I draw it, I don't intend to give you time to inspect it. Waving a weapon around is foolish. You draw, you use it immediately, and then you call the police and an ambulance.


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## skribs (Dec 10, 2013)

I carry a firearm, and I can say I'm much less worried about what it would look like in court.  My primary focus is on effectiveness - is it the best tool that I will have with me to stop an attack?  Regarding the knife, it doesn't matter what type it was, a prosecutor can use buzz words to make it sound evil.  If it's small it was a "stealth weapon", and can still be spun against you.  I'd focus more on:
1) Is it legal or not?
2) Is it the best tool for the job (for the money, that you're most likely to have on you, etc. etc.) or not.

Instead of a knife, you have other options.  Depending on where you live, a walking stick or a solid umbrella might not be a bad idea.  A nice "tactical" flashlight will fill your fist, give you a tool to blind your attacker, and generally has nice ridges on the side.  Personally, I always have a knife and flashlight on me, and the majority of the time I have a firearm as well.  I know that might not be a legal option at school, though.


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## ballen0351 (Dec 10, 2013)

drewtoby said:


> The thing I'm stuck on is this:
> 
> For defense you want an intimidating knife. But, in court you want a harmless looking knife.



I don't even know what that means but worry less about the look and more about its usefulness.  And if you do decide to carry a knife go find training for it.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Dec 11, 2013)

I would have a tactical flashlight and pen in your situation.  Going to school is tricky and having any knife probably will get you expelled. (I know Vice Principles at several colleges and they would expel you)

Personally I carry this pen and it is a great pen, very sturdy, completely unassuming: http://www.riteintherain.com/inventoryD.asp?item_no=97&CatId={07D475E2-B68D-4D45-B646-B82223E119DE}

There are tons of small durable flashlights out there just go to your local police equipment store or any sporting goods store, firearms store and they will set you up.  Just get one that is small and able to fit in your pocket.


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## jks9199 (Dec 11, 2013)

Brian and others have offered solid advice.  Why do you feel a need to carry any sort of tactical knife on campus?  Most campuses have night-time escort services anymore, and they tend to be well-lit places, with plenty of people around.

The flashlight and pen combo is probably the best self-defense advise, I'd say.  Coupled with some good instruction in actual self-defense, not merely martial arts.  In terms of the flashlight -- I'd add on more thing to Brian's advice:  Normal batteries.  Not rechargeable.  Unless you have good habits about keeping it charged -- regular batteries make more sense and are more likely to be good when you need them.  (A good rechargeable in the car is not a bad idea.  I'm fond of the Streamlight SL20 for the car.  Maglites are good, too, and take regular batteries.)

If you choose to carry a knife as a weapon, you are *instantly *elevating any encounter where you pull it out to lethal force.  It's a great way to go to jail if you don't know what you're doing.  And if you don't know how to use the knife effectively -- you'll effectively be handing your assailant a deadly weapon.


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## skribs (Dec 11, 2013)

> And if you don't know how to use the knife effectively -- you'll effectively be handing your assailant a deadly weapon.



Pointy end goes into the other man.


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## Dirty Dog (Dec 11, 2013)

skribs said:


> Pointy end goes into the other man.



While fundamentally true, it's also an overly simplistic view. 


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## jks9199 (Dec 11, 2013)

skribs said:


> Pointy end goes into the other man.



True -- but you just may find out that he has some input in whether or not that happens.  That's where the "effectively" comes into play.


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## skribs (Dec 11, 2013)

Sorry, it was a quote from The Mask of Zorro.


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## Drasken (Dec 12, 2013)

I have taken a self defense course in college, and EVERYONE had a knife. Heck, one fell out during class and the instructor told the guy to put it back in his pocket and be more careful.

I personally carry a knife at all times. Sometimes two depending on what I'm doing as different knives serve different functions as tools. I am also well trained with them and hope to never find the need to make my blade into a weapon, I am just fine with it being a tool and nothing more.
I won't ask why you feel the need to carry a weapon on campus, the media hype about attacks and such have everyone wanting to be armed at all times it seems. But at the same time, I will also say that as I type this I am on a college campus. I have no knife on my person. Yet I am surrounded by weapons if the need arises. Think carefully before you risk legal and financial trouble by carrying a prohibited weapon on a campus.
I personally believe that knives should be ok to carry as long as they are within legal size, etc. Just as I believe that "gun free zones" are bad ideas and lead to more deaths than allowing a certified person to carry a weapon.

However, I would say it isn't worth it to risk for no reason. Especially with no training or proper knowledge of blades in general. Overall I believe a knife in the hands of an untrained individual are more dangerous to the person carrying it than it is to the person they attempt to use it on.


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## frank raud (Dec 12, 2013)

ballen0351 said:


> There are plenty of small defensive knives in the market that are easily hidden I'd buy one of them before a leather man a leather man is too cumbersome to help in a real emergency.  I carry this
> 
> http://www.kabar.com/knives/detail/76


Nice knife. I got to do some training last year with the guy who designed it.


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## frank raud (Dec 12, 2013)

It's  been said before, you're a student, carry a sturdy pen if you feel it is necessary to stab someone. If you have the time to reach into your pocket, pull out your sunfish and open it, you're probably not in a situation that requires weapons.


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## donald1 (Dec 12, 2013)

ballen0351 said:


> There are plenty of small defensive knives in the market that are easily hidden I'd buy one of them before a leather man a leather man is too cumbersome to help in a real emergency.  I carry this
> 
> http://www.kabar.com/knives/detail/76



That's is a good idea I'm going to have to agree with Ballen on this 

My grandpa used to have some kabar knives from when he was a drill sergeant and those knives were then and still are significantly useful


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## ballen0351 (Dec 13, 2013)

frank raud said:


> Nice knife. I got to do some training last year with the guy who designed it.



Yeah I keep it tucked behind my mag pouches on my gun belt.  Its a nice knife easy to get to comfortable in my hand.  Hopefully I'll never need it


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## Tenacious_Red (Dec 13, 2013)

I always have a knife on me, but I use it for fishing, when I am camping, peeling my oranges, hiking, and when I worked in the real world the knife was also a tool to cut in emergency situations etc. I see it more as a tool and not a weapon. A knife is a tool until you intend to hurt someone with it. The odds of you being able to pull that knife when being attacked is low, and let me tell you, that if you are the victim, you may even forget you had the knife because you're too busy trying to fend yourself. If a knife is involved in a fight, I have reason to believe it was pulled out before the first strike, and please do NOT go waving around your knife. 

With that said, I enjoy throwing my knives and shurikens in my office at donated pizza boxes.


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## ballen0351 (Dec 13, 2013)

Tenacious_Red said:


> I always have a knife on me, but I use it for fishing, when I am camping, peeling my oranges,



I hope not the same one at the same time


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## Tenacious_Red (Dec 14, 2013)

ballen0351 said:


> I hope not the same one at the same time



ha! Indeed, citrus flavored craniates are the best.


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## drewtoby (Jan 1, 2014)

Good points, I just meant intimidation as in if there were more than one  person around after I use it. I'm not going to let ANYONE know I have  it, unlike some of my unwise class members. Don't pull it out to "be  cool". 

I know it would be last ditch thing, once it is pulled  out someone will be wounded (at best) from the elevation, as jks pointed  out. Oh, and I know the sunfish is basically worthless for self  defense. The handle is too smooth as well, it could slide right out of  my hands if I'm sweating.

As for purpose, it would be for my  longer walks in the dark to/from class (sometimes off campus, thanks to  the bus). Way too frequent for campus security.

I agree with the  pen. I'll get the zebra f-701. Completely unassuming, durable for  stabbing, and something I can use without getting odd looks. Doesn't  have a glass breaker, but really don't need one for it's purpose.

For  the knife, if I choose to get one I'm leaning toward the spyderco  cricket. Looks small enough to not cause a bulge in my pocket either. 

I'll have to look into the flashlights, and see my options for pure self defense classes.


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## FatMan (Mar 18, 2014)

I understand that on campus, as other places, the cops can't be everywhere. They have places where attacks are easily carried out.  Sometimes classes are late ...

Personally, I like my handgun for defense, but understand wanting to stay within the rules.

Is pepper spray a legal option in your location?


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## drop bear (Mar 18, 2014)

drewtoby said:


> Good points, I just meant intimidation as in if there were more than one  person around after I use it. I'm not going to let ANYONE know I have  it, unlike some of my unwise class members. Don't pull it out to "be  cool".
> 
> I know it would be last ditch thing, once it is pulled  out someone will be wounded (at best) from the elevation, as jks pointed  out. Oh, and I know the sunfish is basically worthless for self  defense. The handle is too smooth as well, it could slide right out of  my hands if I'm sweating.
> 
> ...


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