# Grandmaster in Korean?



## andyjeffries

Can anyone tell me how to translate Grandmaster to Korean?  Normally I'd use Sabuhmnim (but I want to distinguish from the Master of our school) or Kwanjangnim (but he's not the head of our or any school).

Any ideas?


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## Earl Weiss

As with many things direct Translations May not be possible. 

ITF does this (Phonetic Spellings)

Boo Sa Bum = Assistant instructor = Degrees 1-3
Sa Bum = Instructor = Degrees 4-6
Sa Hyung = Master Instructor = Degree 7-8
Sa Sung = Grandmaster = 9th Dan
Chong Shee Ja = Founder

Nim is a suffix menaing "With Respect' or "respectful' it is never used to refer to ones self. 

Kwan Jang is Korean for head of a group or even a school.


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## terryl965

Kwan Jang Nim - Head of the taekwondo school

Sok Ho Kang - Grand Master

Sah Bum Nim - Instructor, above Sa Dan Ja

Boo Sah Nim - Assistant instructor, Ee and Sa Dan Ja

Jo Kyo nim - Junior Instructor

Je Ja - Pupil

Yu Gup Ja - Junior rank holder (color belt)

Yu Dan Ja - Balck belt holder

I hope that this helps


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## andyjeffries

Earl Weiss said:


> As with many things direct Translations May not be possible.


 
So true...



Earl Weiss said:


> ITF does this (Phonetic Spellings)
> Sa Hyung = Master Instructor = Degree 7-8
> Sa Sung = Grandmaster = 9th Dan



It's tricky, he's not ITF, is an 8th Dan and is referred to as Grandmaster "X".  I guess Sa Sung would be correct then...  In Han'gul I guess this is : &#49324;&#49849;?



Earl Weiss said:


> Nim is a suffix menaing "With Respect' or "respectful' it is never used to refer to ones self.



Knew that one, thanks.



Earl Weiss said:


> Kwan Jang is Korean for head of a group or even a school.



It's complicated, he's the founder of our school but has nothing to do with it now.  I don't want to cause offence to our school's current master.


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## andyjeffries

terryl965 said:


> Kwan Jang Nim - Head of the taekwondo school
> 
> Sok Ho Kang - Grand Master



As per my answer to Earl, he's not really the head of our school any more.  I guess Sok Ho Kang (&#49549;&#54840;&#44053;?) or Sa Sung is better.


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## terryl965

andyjeffries said:


> As per my answer to Earl, he's not really the head of our school any more. I guess Sok Ho Kang (&#49549;&#54840;&#44053;?) or Sa Sung is better.


 
If he is a GrandMaster than the approbiate way to addres him would be Sok Ho Kang and his last name, this will show respect but also not offend the current school owner.:asian:


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## Manny

In my dojang: kio bonim =isntructor 1st Dan, kyo sa nim= instructor 2nd and 3rd dan, sam bo nim= profesor.

We don't use the word master or grandmaster, we use the palabra Profesor (profesor).

Manny


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## Master Dan

&#44536;&#47004;&#46300; &#47560;&#50416;&#53468;&#47476;                   Grand Master 

Here are your characters but I will have to get back to you on the phonetics to speak. I found that our GM made his own interpretations of how to pronounce in English based on his preference not necessarilly a formal Romanization of a word but what he thought we could understand and pronounce. 

Unless somone cares to jump in I will ask my GM Professor to give his phonetic explanation and get back to you.


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## Earl Weiss

andyjeffries said:


> Can anyone tell me how to translate Grandmaster to Korean? Normally I'd use Sabuhmnim (but I want to distinguish from the Master of our school) or Kwanjangnim (but he's not the head of our or any school).
> 
> Any ideas?


 
I think the simplest and best answer would come from him. Just ask "Sir, How would you prefer to be addressed." 

I have asked this question of Royce Gracie  (Saying Mr. , Master or Maestro Gracie could draw a crownd in some circumstances) as well as General Choi.


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## andyjeffries

Master Dan said:


> &#44536;&#47004;&#46300; &#47560;&#50416;&#53468;&#47476;                   Grand Master
> 
> Here are your characters but I will have to get back to you on the phonetics to speak.




I can read Han'gul - what you have is literally the English words Grand and Master written in Han'gul, but not translated in to Korean. For example Apple translated phonetically is something like &#50526;&#54540; but the Korean word for Apple is Sagwa or &#49324;&#44284;.

Thanks anyway, but I think transliterating the word in to the Korean alphabet won't be right ;-)


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## andyjeffries

Earl Weiss said:


> I think the simplest and best answer would come from him. Just ask "Sir, How would you prefer to be addressed."



He is addressed in English as Grandmaster X.  However, this is for an embroidered belt with our club logo on (that he founded) and it's a gift from our Master (neither our Master nor this Grandmaster are Korean).  I can't ask him because it will give away the surprise ;-)

I'll probably go with Sok Ho Kang.  Thanks everyone.


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## SahBumNimRush

terryl965 said:


> Kwan Jang Nim - Head of the taekwondo school
> 
> Sok Ho Kang - Grand Master
> 
> Sah Bum Nim - Instructor, above Sa Dan Ja
> 
> Boo Sah Nim - Assistant instructor, Ee and Sa Dan Ja
> 
> Jo Kyo nim - Junior Instructor
> 
> Je Ja - Pupil
> 
> Yu Gup Ja - Junior rank holder (color belt)
> 
> Yu Dan Ja - Balck belt holder
> 
> I hope that this helps



Terry,  Sok Ho Kang is my Kwan Jang Nim's name.. . If you got this from my earlier Korean terminology post, I'm sorry for the confusion.


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## andyjeffries

SahBumNimRush said:


> Terry,  Sok Ho Kang is my Kwan Jang Nim's name.. . If you got this from my earlier Korean terminology post, I'm sorry for the confusion.



That's funny as hell!!!  Nearly had my grandmaster's belt embroidered with your grandmaster's name as a title! 

:rofl:


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## terryl965

SahBumNimRush said:


> Terry, Sok Ho Kang is my Kwan Jang Nim's name.. . If you got this from my earlier Korean terminology post, I'm sorry for the confusion.


 
OK why do I have this down as the title for Grand Master, I hope my office lady did not mix up my files when she re-did my computer. Man I feel like an idiot right now.

Ok here is the right way sorry for the files being mixed up.


Asst. Instructor (1-3) pu-sa-bom

Instructor (4-6) Sa-bom

Instructor Sir Sa-bom-nim

Master Instructor Sa-Hyon

GrandMaster Sa-song

Sorry for any confusion, I now need to go back and fix all my files that she but in the wrong order, damm computers so much easier the way I had the in index cards.


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## Xue Sheng

Serious question:

Are there actually living people in Korea that call themselves or require people to call them "Grand Master" or is that just for us in the west?

I am truly just curious and the reason I ask is that there are no Grand Masters in China or anyone in China that calls themselves or requires their students to call them Grand Master that is only for the westerners.


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## terryl965

Alot of the GM I know just want me to say their first name or Sir, but we do have alot of people hung up on the GM thing. I guess they feel less important so they need that title to make themself feel better.


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## Daniel Sullivan

andyjeffries said:


> Can anyone tell me how to translate Grandmaster to Korean? Normally I'd use Sabuhmnim (but I want to distinguish from the Master of our school) or Kwanjangnim (but he's not the head of our or any school).
> 
> Any ideas?


Grandmaster, so far as I know, is Taesanim, and would be addressed as 'taesa' as the 'nim' is added to the honorific when speaking of them in the third person.  The hanja is &#22826;&#24107;&#45784;, and the first character is the same character used in Taekgeuk &#22826;&#26997;, which means supreme or great. 

Kwanjangnim is a school owner (head of kwan).
Sabeomnim is a 'master instructor' usually of at least fourth dan, and translates as 'teacher father'.
Seonsang is the Korean pronunciation of sensei.
Kyosanim is an instructor, usually second dan.

Hope that helps!

Daniel


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## SahBumNimRush

Honestly I don't know much about the whole GM title outside of my little fish bowl.  However, in my association there are technically a few grandmasters, although NONE of them use that title except for our Kwan Jang Nim.  Grandmaster Sok Ho Kang has raised many master instructors, and many of those master instructors have raised a few master instructors of their own.  So technically I suppose my Kwan Jang Nim should be a Great Grand Master, but I no one uses such a term.  

Seobahmnim and kwanjangnim are used more often than master and grand master in my schools.  I think they are more clear on definition than master and grand master.  After all there are a couple different definitions of master and grandmaster.  Some say that you can only be a grandmaster at a certain rank, some say it just means you are a master that has raised another master.

It's all semantics to me, and I don't particularly care what people call each other, as long as it is out of proper respect.


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## rmclain

You could use the term, "Nohsa nim," which means, "Old Expert."

"Dohsa nim" is reserved for the highest honor.

R. McLain


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## miguksaram

Xue Sheng said:


> Serious question:
> 
> Are there actually living people in Korea that call themselves or require people to call them "Grand Master" or is that just for us in the west?
> 
> I am truly just curious and the reason I ask is that there are no Grand Masters in China or anyone in China that calls themselves or requires their students to call them Grand Master that is only for the westerners.


 
Don't Chinese systems call teachers Sifu and Grandmasters Sigung?  It may not be a direct translation to grand master, but I believe sigung is equivalent.


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## dancingalone

miguksaram said:


> Don't Chinese systems call teachers Sifu and Grandmasters Sigung?  It may not be a direct translation to grand master, but I believe sigung is equivalent.



Normally I believe in CMA, 'sigung' denotes your teacher's teacher and its usage is very person specific.  

Some of the American martial arts like kajukenbo have altered the meaning of the word to mean a senior grandmaster level instead, but it is a corruption of the term.

By the way as the CMA members will tell you, 'grandmaster' is not a complimentary term to most Chinese MA teachers.


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## Xue Sheng

miguksaram said:


> Don't Chinese systems call teachers Sifu and Grandmasters Sigung? It may not be a direct translation to grand master, but I believe sigung is equivalent.


 
no sigung is not the equivalent but then dancingalone already said that. Look Here





dancingalone said:


> Normally I believe in CMA, 'sigung' denotes your teacher's teacher and its usage is very person specific.
> 
> Some of the American martial arts like kajukenbo have altered the meaning of the word to mean a senior grandmaster level instead, but it is a corruption of the term.
> 
> By the way as the CMA members will tell you, 'grandmaster' is not a complimentary term to most Chinese MA teachers.


 
Call a real MA guy in Beijing a Grandmaster (which I believe is Da Sifu) and you either will be laughed at or beaten. Call your Teacher in China Sigung and he will correct you and tell you he is your sifu. As my sifu says "There are no grandmasters in China"

Grandmaster in CMA circles is for the benefit of westerners


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## dancingalone

For some reason westerners (especially Americans) really like these jumped up titles.  Frequently I have encountered American people in karate that like to use the teaching grade titles like renshi, kyoshi, and hanshi in actual teaching situations instead of the more 'humble' title of sensei.  Never mind that it's a misuse and opens you up to all sorts of eye-rolling from the natives who only use them in written correspondence at most.

As to the use of grandmaster in Korean martial arts, it seems common enough even among Koreans.


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## miguksaram

dancingalone said:


> Normally I believe in CMA, 'sigung' denotes your teacher's teacher and its usage is very person specific.
> 
> Some of the American martial arts like kajukenbo have altered the meaning of the word to mean a senior grandmaster level instead, but it is a corruption of the term.
> 
> By the way as the CMA members will tell you, 'grandmaster' is not a complimentary term to most Chinese MA teachers.


 
Thanks for clearing that up.


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