# Walmarts like a small country



## ballen0351 (Oct 18, 2013)

Saw this today I was amazed:

We compiled some facts about Wal-Mart that will blow your mind: 


Wal-Mart averages a profit of $1.8 million every hour.


35 million people shop at Wal-Mart every day, as much as the population of Canada.



Wal-Mart's $316 billion U.S. retail sales exceed those of *Kroger* (KR +0.40%), *Target* (TGT -0.29%), *Costco* (COST -0.52%) and *Walgreens* (WAG -0.29%) combined.



The average Wal-Mart supercenter sells 140,000 individual items.



Wal-Mart opened between four and five new stores every week in 2012.



The Walton family is worth $150 billion, about as much as Bill Gates, Warren Buffett and Michael Bloomberg combined.



Wal-Mart commonly receives 25 applications for every open job.



Between Wal-Mart's opening in 1962 and 2002, the number of single-store retailers in the U.S. declined 55%.



Wal-Mart accounts for 25% of *Clorox*'s (CLX +0.59%) total sales.



Wal-Mart's top-selling item in 2012 was the banana.



90% of Americans live within 15 minutes of a Wal-Mart.



Wal-Mart's net sales were $466 billion in 2012. That's more than Argentina's GDP.



Wal-Mart has 2.2 million employees, more than the population of Houston.



If Wal-Mart were a country, it would be the 26th largest economy in the world.
http://money.msn.com/investing/post--14-wal-mart-facts-that-will-blow-your-mind


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## Big Don (Oct 18, 2013)

troll bait


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## arnisador (Oct 18, 2013)

Bananas? They have awful produce, and the people who shop for food there are not looking for healthy food!


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## Big Don (Oct 18, 2013)

arnisador said:


> bananas? They have awful produce, and the people who shop for food there are not looking for healthy food!





big don said:


> troll bait


q.e.d.


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## K-man (Oct 18, 2013)

And did did they pay their share of tax?



> 6. Wal-Mart (WMT)
> Pre-tax earnings: $24.4 Billion
> 
> 
> ...


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## ballen0351 (Oct 18, 2013)

arnisador said:


> Bananas? They have awful produce, and the people who shop for food there are not looking for healthy food!



Yeah that surprised me too.


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## ballen0351 (Oct 18, 2013)

K-man said:


> And did did they pay their share of tax?



Any reason you would think they didnt?


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## K-man (Oct 18, 2013)

ballen0351 said:


> Any reason you would think they didnt?


Yep! As I posted, they paid 19% when the nominal rate is 35%. In fairness they did pay more than some of the other top ten earners. Is it any wonder the US can't balance its budget when these companies are not paying their way?

GE 5%
IBM 1%
ConocoPhillps 8%
Wells Fargo 14%
Wal-Mart 19%
Morgan Chase 14%
Microsoft 11%
Apple 11%
Chevron 4%
Exxon Mobil 2%

Average for top 10 most profitable companies ... 9%

But that's the average of the averages. The real figure of percentage paid is 7.84%.



> But the 10 companies all paid much less than the nominal corporate tax rate of 35 percent -- a number that investor and tax-the-rich advocate Warren Buffett has dismissed as "a myth," but one that presidential front-runners Barack Obama and Mitt Romney have both proposed to lower.
> 
> The effective corporate tax rate has been on its way down for decades, recently hitting a 40-year low even as corporate profits have reached an all-time high. Many of the companies that have seen their tax rates fall in recent years -- including Exxon Mobil, Verizon, General Electric and AT&T -- are among the biggest spenders when it comes to lobbying, according to a recent analysis by the Sunlight Foundation.


Yep! I reckon that's reason enough.
:asian:


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## granfire (Oct 19, 2013)

arnisador said:


> Bananas? They have awful produce, and the people who shop for food there are not looking for healthy food!


  might vary from store to store, but awful is not the term I'd use.  Bananas are the cheapest fruit/produce in the store, at around 50cents +/- a pound, while the cheapest apples is at least 99 cents, but more in the buck 50 range.


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## ballen0351 (Oct 19, 2013)

K-man said:


> Yep! As I posted, they paid 19% when the nominal rate is 35%. In fairness they did pay more than some of the other top ten earners. Is it any wonder the US can't balance its budget when these companies are not paying their way?
> 
> GE 5%
> IBM 1%
> ...



They pay what they are told to pay.  Just like everyone else.  35% is pretty much robbery to begin with.  So good for them on using the system to pay less.  I'd pay less if I could figure out how.


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## ballen0351 (Oct 19, 2013)

granfire said:


> might vary from store to store, but awful is not the term I'd use.  Bananas are the cheapest fruit/produce in the store, at around 50cents +/- a pound, while the cheapest apples is at least 99 cents, but more in the buck 50 range.



Thats kinda crazy since bananas need to be imported and apples are local you would think its be flip flopped price wise.  But then again nothing about food prices makes sense to me.


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## K-man (Oct 19, 2013)

ballen0351 said:


> They pay what they are told to pay.  Just like everyone else.  35% is pretty much robbery to begin with.  So good for them on using the system to pay less.  I'd pay less if I could figure out how.


And therein lies the problem. The big guys cheat the system and the little guys have to shoulder the burden. The instead of holding the cheats to account you condone their actions and say you wish you could pay less too. Then you complain about the country's unsustainable debt. Some of you guys should study accounting 101.
:asian:


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## DennisBreene (Oct 19, 2013)

arnisador said:


> Bananas? They have awful produce, and the people who shop for food there are not looking for healthy food!



Those of us who live in rural areas have few other options. You can buy healthy food there, you just have to pass on the crap.  As for taxes; their size gives them leverage. The stores are places outside of incorporated cities and townships so they avoid local sales taxes. I suspect that new stores often go into areas where the local governments offer tax incentives to attract them, just as with other large employers. I haven't heard of the chain being brought up on charges of tax evasion so I assume that what they are doing is legal (until proven otherwise).  The big difference; we get one vote each, they can buy a seat at the legislators dinner table.


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## ballen0351 (Oct 19, 2013)

K-man said:


> And therein lies the problem. The big guys cheat the system and the little guys have to shoulder the burden. The instead of holding the cheats to account you condone their actions and say you wish you could pay less too. Then you complain about the country's unsustainable debt. Some of you guys should study accounting 101.
> :asian:


Its not cheating if you follow the rules that your given.  No govt should be taking a 3rd of your income that's crazy.  I complain about the debt because the Govt is reckless with the money they are given.  To the Govt a spending cut is "well we were going to borrow 700 billion but now were only borrowing 600 billion". That's not a cut


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## granfire (Oct 19, 2013)

ballen0351 said:


> Thats kinda crazy since bananas need to be imported and apples are local you would think its be flip flopped price wise.  But then again nothing about food prices makes sense to me.


  I believe bananas grow year round, apples are harvested twice a year (yeah, they, too are shipped around the world, the summer harvest usually originating from Chile) and in between they need to be warehoused in a climate controlled facility


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## arnisador (Oct 19, 2013)

Our experience with their produce has been very negative--but we live in a small town and I shopped there last night (but not for bananas, which we get from a local, one-location-only grocery store).


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## K-man (Oct 19, 2013)

ballen0351 said:


> Its not cheating if you follow the rules that your given.  No govt should be taking a 3rd of your income that's crazy.  I complain about the debt because the Govt is reckless with the money they are given.  To the Govt a spending cut is "well we were going to borrow 700 billion but now were only borrowing 600 billion". That's not a cut


They are not taking a third of anyone's income. These are companies. Companies have all sorts of perks and benefits before they declare a bottom line. As to the rate of tax. That is open to change if governments want to do that  but if your massive companies are just ripping the money off the system, don't blame your Government for having to print and borrow money. Alowing tax cheats to prosper is stealing from everyone. Why do you think these companies are spending such massive amounts of money lobbying?
:asian:


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## ballen0351 (Oct 19, 2013)

K-man said:


> They are not taking a third of anyone's income. These are companies. Companies have all sorts of perks and benefits before they declare a bottom line. As to the rate of tax. That is open to change if governments want to do that  but if your massive companies are just ripping the money off the system, don't blame your Government for having to print and borrow money. Alowing tax cheats to prosper is stealing from everyone. Why do you think these companies are spending such massive amounts of money lobbying?
> :asian:


Its not cheating if you follow the rules.  That's thr opposite of cheating.  The govt needs to figure out how to live with the money it takes in and stop borrowing money.  You know like the rest of us do.  If we can't afford everything then start making cuts.  Do we really need to fund a study on duck penis when we are broke?


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## K-man (Oct 19, 2013)

ballen0351 said:


> Its not cheating if you follow the rules.  That's thr opposite of cheating.  The govt needs to figure out how to live with the money it takes in and stop borrowing money.  You know like the rest of us do.  If we can't afford everything then start making cuts.  Do we really need to fund a study on duck penis when we are broke?


Have you looked at *elder*'s thread?
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/sh...alth-Inequality-In-America-and-its-perception
How do you think the top 1% got that money? Who makes the rules that allow such inequitable distribution of wealth to occur?
:asian:


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## ballen0351 (Oct 19, 2013)

K-man said:


> Have you looked at *elder*'s thread?
> http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/sh...alth-Inequality-In-America-and-its-perception
> How do you think the top 1% got that money? Who makes the rules that allow such inequitable distribution of wealth to occur?
> :asian:


More crying and jealousy about the 1%.  Walmart pays what they are told to pay.  They pay more then their fair share.  Fact is our govt has a spending problem not an income problem.


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## arnisador (Oct 19, 2013)

ballen0351 said:


> More crying and jealousy about the 1%.  Walmart pays what they are told to pay.



Large companies tell congress what to tell them to pay via lobbying and campaign contributions. How do you think all those incredibly specialized tax loopholes got in there in the first place?


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## ballen0351 (Oct 19, 2013)

arnisador said:


> Large companies tell congress what to tell them to pay via lobbying and campaign contributions. How do you think all those incredibly specialized tax loopholes got in there in the first place?


And?  Its their money they earned it.  They do what they need to do to keep it just like I do when I find every deduction and charitable donations I can to make my tax bill low as possible.  You falut them for trying to keep as much of their money as they can? Don't you?


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## arnisador (Oct 19, 2013)

No--I fault the system for letting large companies effectively write laws.


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## K-man (Oct 20, 2013)

ballen0351 said:


> And?  Its their money they earned it.  They do what they need to do to keep it just like I do when I find every deduction and charitable donations I can to make my tax bill low as possible.  You falut them for trying to keep as much of their money as they can? Don't you?


OK. So a close relative dies leaving you and Warren Buffet $1,000,000 to divide fairly between yourselves. You are happy to take just $10,000 leaving him with $990,000 because that is equitable distribution of wealth?


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## ballen0351 (Oct 20, 2013)

arnisador said:


> No--I fault the system for letting large companies effectively write laws.


And thats walmarts fault or Washington's?


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## ballen0351 (Oct 20, 2013)

K-man said:


> OK. So a close relative dies leaving you and Warren Buffet $1,000,000 to divide fairly between yourselves. You are happy to take just $10,000 leaving him with $990,000 because that is equitable distribution of wealth?



What are you talking about?  What's that got to do with paying taxes or Walmart?


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## K-man (Oct 20, 2013)

ballen0351 said:


> What are you talking about?  What's that got to do with paying taxes or Walmart?


Humour me. Just answer the hypothetical. 
 In that situation would you want to split such an inheritance down the middle or would you be magnanimous and give Warren the lion's share. I mean he obviously works at least a hundred times harder that you, if his income is to be justified. (To be fair to Warren, I believe he might be one of the few who does pay the proper tax.)
:asian:


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## arnisador (Oct 20, 2013)

ballen0351 said:


> And thats walmarts fault or Washington's?



Washington. I'm not blaming Walmart for playing by the rules--but the rules suck. What they're paying is legal, not fair. They should play by the law, but the law should be changed to be fairer.


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## K-man (Oct 20, 2013)

arnisador said:


> Washington. I'm not blaming Walmart for playing by the rules--but the rules suck. What they're paying is legal, not fair. They should play by the law, but the law should be changed to be fairer.


Mmm! I'm not sure that using tax havens is 'legal'. That's why governments around the world are trying to close them down. It's a grey area that is widely used to cheat the tax system. Just another area where the big end of town gets the free lunch.
:asian:


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## Big Don (Oct 20, 2013)

K-man said:


> Humour me. Just answer the hypothetical.
> In that situation would you want to split such an inheritance down the middle or would you be magnanimous and give Warren the lion's share. I mean he obviously works at least a hundred times harder that you, if his income is to be justified. (To be fair to Warren, I believe he might be one of the few who does pay the proper tax.)
> :asian:


Buffet does NOT pay the proper tax, his company Berkshire/Hathaway is fighting NOT to pay over a BILLION dollars in taxes, and hasn't paid them since 2002!
Real heroic taxpayer you've got there...
In short F Warren Buffet.


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## Big Don (Oct 20, 2013)

K-man said:


> Mmm! I'm not sure that using tax havens is 'legal'. That's why governments around the world are trying to close them down. It's a grey area that is widely used to cheat the tax system. Just another area where the big end of town gets the free lunch.
> :asian:



If their use isn't 'legal' why isn't the government prosecuting them? You know the way Clinton went after Microsoft...


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## K-man (Oct 20, 2013)

Big Don said:


> If their use isn't 'legal' why isn't the government prosecuting them? You know the way Clinton went after Microsoft...


I can't believe you are so naive that you don't understand tax havens. Why isn't the government prosecuting? Because of the secrecy provided by the tax haven. Are governments world wide trying to stop this fraudulent practice? You betcha! Who is losing out? You and me.



> Having said that it is difficult to gather information on their size and weight in the global economy, given their secrecy provisions and lack of regulation. Murphy et al draw on existing research to support their claims on the economic significance of the havens. Specifically, the havens are estimated to have nearly one third of foreign direct investment from US and European corporations passing through their jurisdiction; there are about two million &#8216;International Business Corporations&#8217; registered here; and growing numbers of hedge funds. The havens are also major sites for international criminal activities (money laundering, embezzlement) and the illicit flight of capital from poor to rich nations. Trying to figure out how much tax is lost through all this evasion and avoidance is another major challenge, with little information disclosed. For wealthy individuals the sums could be around $250 billion, on an estimated value of &#8216;offshore&#8217; assets in the region of $9 &#8211; 12 trillion. Data for companies is even sketchier in the absence of country by country accounting methods that would identify profits flowing from particular economic activities. We do know the multinationals use tax havens for profit reallocation and intra MNC trade across borders (so called &#8216;transfer pricing&#8217; ) is a major vehicle for corporate tax avoidance.
> http://newunionism.wordpress.com/2010/11/24/tax-havens-and-globalisation/


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## Big Don (Oct 20, 2013)

you remind me of the guy I passed on the freeway the other day in his brand new Mercedes with his Eat the Rich bumpersticker


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## ballen0351 (Oct 20, 2013)

K-man said:


> Mmm! I'm not sure that using tax havens is 'legal'. That's why governments around the world are trying to close them down. It's a grey area that is widely used to cheat the tax system. Just another area where the big end of town gets the free lunch.
> :asian:


When it come to the law there is no such thing as a great area.  Its either legal or its not.  Point blank period


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## arnisador (Oct 20, 2013)

That's not true of tax law. Basically, it's not true of tort law.


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## ballen0351 (Oct 20, 2013)

arnisador said:


> That's not true of tax law. Basically, it's not true of tort law.



Your wrong.  If what they are doing is not legal they would have been taken to court since the left is in charge and the left hates Walmart.


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## K-man (Oct 20, 2013)

Big Don said:


> you remind me of the guy I passed on the freeway the other day in his brand new Mercedes with his Eat the Rich bumpersticker


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## K-man (Oct 20, 2013)

ballen0351 said:


> When it come to the law there is no such thing as a great area.  Its either legal or its not.  Point blank period


Then it's not legal.   Did you read the link I posted or just jump in?
And you didn't answer my question. 50/50 or just 10 Grand out of the Million?


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## K-man (Oct 20, 2013)

ballen0351 said:


> Your wrong.  If what they are doing is not legal they would have been taken to court since the left is in charge and the left hates Walmart.


In America there is no 'left' and the tax haven bit is not really about Walmart. It is thread drift but applies to your most profitable companies and your wealthiest individuals and it is you and your compatriots who are paying for their corporate greed.


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## ballen0351 (Oct 20, 2013)

K-man said:


> In America there is no 'left' and the tax haven bit is not really about Walmart. It is thread drift but applies to your most profitable companies and your wealthiest individuals and it is you and your compatriots who are paying for their corporate greed.


So your an expert on the way things work in the US now huh?  Well damn I guess we need to start letting you Aussies come fix all our problems now.


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## ballen0351 (Oct 20, 2013)

K-man said:


> .And you didn't answer my question. 50/50 or just 10 Grand out of the Million?



Its a stupid question that has nothing to do with this topic.  It has nothing to do with taxes.  I have no rich relatives that will Die and leave me anything,  I don't k ow warren buffet so there is no way my family would leave him anything.  Besides your asking the wrong person because when my wife's father died and her brother took almost the entire estate I told my wife to let him.  Even the little we got was more then we had and if he's willing to destroy the family over a little money he must need it more then us so don't fight him over it.


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## K-man (Oct 20, 2013)

ballen0351 said:


> So your an expert on the way things work in the US now huh?  Well damn I guess we need to start letting you Aussies come fix all our problems now.


No, I don't claim to be an expert and I doubt anyone can fix the mess you have allowed to develop, Aussie or otherwise. But I'm happy to apologise and say that you all live in Nirvana. Everything is honky dory.


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## arnisador (Oct 20, 2013)

ballen0351 said:


> Your wrong.  If what they are doing is not legal they would have been taken to court since the left is in charge and the left hates Walmart.



The "Abusive Tax Schemes" are defined in a vague way that makes it difficult to know whether you're violating the law or not.


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## K-man (Oct 20, 2013)

ballen0351 said:


> Its a stupid question that has nothing to do with this topic.  It has nothing to do with taxes.  I have no rich relatives that will Die and leave me anything,  I don't k ow warren buffet so there is no way my family would leave him anything.  Besides your asking the wrong person because when my wife's father died and her brother took almost the entire estate I told my wife to let him.  Even the little we got was more then we had and if he's willing to destroy the family over a little money he must need it more then us so don't fight him over it.


As I said, it's just a hypothetical but you can obviously see the analogy I was going to draw from your answer. Either way you answer, didn't matter. Just reflects the situation highlighted by *elder*. And of course it has everything to do with this topic.


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## K-man (Oct 20, 2013)

Big Don said:


> Buffet does NOT pay the proper tax, his company Berkshire/Hathaway is fighting NOT to pay over a BILLION dollars in taxes, and hasn't paid them since 2002!
> Real heroic taxpayer you've got there...
> In short F Warren Buffet.


Sorry *Don*, I missed this one. Have a word to *Ballen* for me if you will. He is of the opinion all these guys are paying their fair share. I was just giving him the benefit of the doubt. Thanks for the clarification.


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## ballen0351 (Oct 20, 2013)

K-man said:


> As I said, it's just a hypothetical but you can obviously see the analogy I was going to draw from your answer. Either way you answer, didn't matter. Just reflects the situation highlighted by *elder*. And of course it has everything to do with this topic.



I didnt read elders topic thats his topic this is mine.  You want to make points about his go to his and make the point.  And no I have NO idea what you were trying to dra unless it was that the 35000 the Govt takes off the top of the million is just too damn much.


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## ballen0351 (Oct 20, 2013)

arnisador said:


> The "Abusive Tax Schemes" are defined in a vague way that makes it difficult to know whether you're violating the law or not.



Again with the amount of people that target walmart for everything they do if they were in violation it would be known.


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## ballen0351 (Oct 20, 2013)

K-man said:


> No, I don't claim to be an expert and I doubt anyone can fix the mess you have allowed to develop, Aussie or otherwise. But I'm happy to apologise and say that you all live in Nirvana. Everything is honky dory.



Glass houses my friend.  There have been several threads about how screwed up your country is but they get locked due to being against the rules.  Part of the protected class I guess


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## K-man (Oct 20, 2013)

ballen0351 said:


> Glass houses my friend.  There have been several threads about how screwed up your country is but they get locked due to being against the rules.  Part of the protected class I guess


Oh come on. I'm not knocking the US.  I'm quite happy to discuss any of our problems. Just keep it to current problems, I'm more than happy to do that. And, out of interest, just where is our country screwed up?


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## ballen0351 (Oct 20, 2013)

K-man said:


> Oh come on. I'm not knocking the US.  I'm quite happy to discuss any of our problems. Just keep it to current problems, I'm more than happy to do that. And, out of interest, just where is our country screwed up?


Its not your perfect your country is perfect your TAx codes are perfect your health care is perfect......well at least it better be with as many rocks as you like to throw


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## ballen0351 (Oct 20, 2013)

Kman I honestly can't answer what's wrong with your country.  Its not my concern.  I know nothing about your country because I just don't care about yours or anyone else's for that matter.  I have no say in your govt because its none of my business.  I don't spend my time worrying about you guys like you do to us.  You guys can name a senator from the small state of Arizona.  I cant even name your president or prime minister or whatever you call it.


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## Big Don (Oct 20, 2013)

ballen0351 said:


> Your wrong.  If what they are doing is not legal they would have been taken to court since the left is in charge and the left hates Walmart.



Even though Hillary used to sit on the board...


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## K-man (Oct 20, 2013)

ballen0351 said:


> Its not your perfect your country is perfect your TAx codes are perfect your health care is perfect......well at least it better be with as many rocks as you like to throw


I'm sure our country isn't perfect. We have the same problems of politicians with there noses in the trough, politicians doing 'favours' for their mates, problems with uncontrolled immigration. We still have iniquity when it comes to distribution of wealth and the list goes on. But all in all we are trying to deal with those issues. We have companies that are avoiding tax as well, most with their major offices in tax havens, such as Google. 
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-...illion-u-s-revenue-lost-to-tax-loopholes.html
And, they pay virtually no tax here either. 

Our budget is still in deficit due to the effect of the GFC but we will get back to a balanced budget hopefully within the next five years. 

So I'm not throwing rocks, I'm trying to have a discussion of the issues plaguing the US that *Billc* keeps throwing up as evidence that Obama couldn't organise a pissup in a brewery. I can't believe you guys can sit there and not respond to his posts, then you attack me when I call BS. I have not started any thread criticising the US.


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## K-man (Oct 20, 2013)

ballen0351 said:


> Glass houses my friend.  There have been several threads about how screwed up your country is but they get locked due to being against the rules.  Part of the protected class I guess



I suspect that might have been about the treatment of indigenous people over 100 years ago. 



ballen0351 said:


> Kman I honestly can't answer what's wrong with your country.  Its not my concern.  I know nothing about your country because I just don't care about yours or anyone else's for that matter.  I have no say in your govt because its none of my business.  I don't spend my time worrying about you guys like you do to us.  You guys can name a senator from the small state of Arizona.  I cant even name your president or prime minister or whatever you call it.


So in one post you say we are screwed up and in the next you say you know nothing about Australia. I don't spend my time worrying about your problems but I am acutely aware of what is happening in all other major countries around the world because we are all part of the global community.


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## arnisador (Oct 20, 2013)

ballen0351 said:


> Kman I honestly can't answer what's wrong with your country.



Gun control--in a country populated by convicts! Why, the homicide rate must be through the roof compared to us!


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## ballen0351 (Oct 20, 2013)

K-man said:


> I'm sure our country isn't perfect. We have the same problems of politicians with there noses in the trough, politicians doing 'favours' for their mates, problems with uncontrolled immigration. We still have iniquity when it comes to distribution of wealth and the list goes on. But all in all we are trying to deal with those issues. We have companies that are avoiding tax as well, most with their major offices in tax havens, such as Google.
> http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-...illion-u-s-revenue-lost-to-tax-loopholes.html
> And, they pay virtually no tax here either.
> 
> ...


And I've never started any threads bashing any other countries since I know I'm in a glass house.


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## ballen0351 (Oct 20, 2013)

arnisador said:


> Gun control--in a country populated by convicts! Why, the homicide rate must be through the roof compared to us!



Yeah way to contribute to the conversation


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## ballen0351 (Oct 20, 2013)

K-man said:


> So in one post you say we are screwed up and in then say you know nothing about Australia.



Well since I know of zero perfect lands in the world its not hard to guess you got some problems over there.



> I don't spend my time worrying about your problems



Could of fooled me


> but I am acutely aware of what is happening in all other major countries around the world because we are all part of the global community.



I keep hearing this global community nonsense.  So if we are all in this together how about you give us a few trillion bucks to cover our debt.


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## K-man (Oct 20, 2013)

arnisador said:


> Gun control--in a country populated by convicts! Why, the homicide rate must be through the roof compared to us!


Ssh! I'm in enough trouble already without you fanning the flames. :s281:


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## arnisador (Oct 20, 2013)

It is a global community--and had we defaulted on our debt, we would've found out just how very much so that is. Everyone has a stake in the U.S. whether they want to or not.


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## ballen0351 (Oct 20, 2013)

arnisador said:


> It is a global community--and had we defaulted on our debt, we would've found out just how very much so that is. Everyone has a stake in the U.S. whether they want to or not.



We wouldn't default were not allowed.  They would have made a payment to cover the interest.  I disagree with the solution to the problem that we need to borrow more.  We have 17 trillion in debt now.  We will never be able to get out of debt now.  No amount of spending will make up that Mess.  We have totally screwed our grandkids


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## arnisador (Oct 20, 2013)

Walmart has $54 billion in debt:
http://www.forbes.com/companies/wal-mart-stores/

But it's on revenue 10 times that and assets 5 times that. The U.S. economy is growing. This is a really common practice for both businesses and govts. You invest in order to grow.


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## ballen0351 (Oct 20, 2013)

arnisador said:


> Walmart has $54 billion in debt:
> http://www.forbes.com/companies/wal-mart-stores/
> 
> But it's on revenue 10 times that and assets 5 times that. The U.S. economy is growing. This is a really common practice for both businesses and govts. You invest in order to grow.


Govt isn't supposed to grow.  It's not a business


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## K-man (Oct 20, 2013)

ballen0351 said:


> I keep hearing this global community nonsense.  So if we are all in this together how about you give us a few trillion bucks to cover our debt.


It's not nonsense. We are all speeding through space on the same rock. 
We do have overseas aid programmes but I'm not sure that the US fits the guidelines.


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## K-man (Oct 20, 2013)

ballen0351 said:


> We wouldn't default were not allowed.  They would have made a payment to cover the interest.  I disagree with the solution to the problem that we need to borrow more.  We have 17 trillion in debt now.  We will never be able to get out of debt now.  No amount of spending will make up that Mess.  We have totally screwed our grandkids


The EU tried to force Greece to do that. Stop spending and manage the debt. Trouble is the economy would fall over totally. Greeks have a similar aversion to paying taxes and a lot of them think they don't have to work either. But I don't think the problem is unmanageable.  As I pointed out earlier there are a number of solutions, but it will take a bit of G&D on behalf of your representatives to stand up to the corporate giants who are bleeding you dry.
:asian:


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## ballen0351 (Oct 20, 2013)

K-man said:


> The EU tried to force Greece to do that. Stop spending and manage the debt. Trouble is the economy would fall over totally. Greeks have a similar aversion to paying taxes and a lot of them think they don't have to work either. But I don't think the problem is unmanageable.  As I pointed out earlier there are a number of solutions, but it will take a bit of G&D on behalf of your representatives to stand up to the corporate giants who are bleeding you dry.
> :asian:


The corp. Giants are not bleeding anyone.  Its the bottom 50% of Americans that don't pay anything and take a lot.
Its also just stupid spending policy.  We waste money for no reason.  We spend money on things we don't need because we don't want to give back grant money.  I know a Police Department with 14 total officers that used grant money to buy a helicopter.  They have no pilot and cant afford fuel and maintenance but they didn't want to not spend the money because then next year they wouldn't qualify for more money if they actually needed something.  My own department does it every year.  The Capt comes to every unit and says.  We have money to spend what do you want.  We have so much stupid stuff that's never used because we had to spend money.


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## ballen0351 (Oct 20, 2013)

K-man said:


> It's not nonsense. We are all speeding through space on the same rock.
> We do have overseas aid programmes but I'm not sure that the US fits the guidelines.



That was a huge mistake to blend all our economies together.  One falls we all fall.  If we go and drag you down then you get what you deserve for jumping on our coat tails


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## arnisador (Oct 20, 2013)

arnisador said:


> Walmart has $54 billion in debt:
> http://www.forbes.com/companies/wal-mart-stores/
> 
> But it's on revenue 10 times that and assets 5 times that. The U.S.  economy is growing. This is a really common practice for both businesses  and govts. You invest in order to grow.





ballen0351 said:


> Govt isn't supposed to grow.  It's not a business



Dude. You want the govt. to grow the _economy_. It's working--albeit slowly right now.


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## arnisador (Oct 20, 2013)

ballen0351 said:


> That was a huge mistake to blend all our economies together.



Intl. trade works that way.


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## ballen0351 (Oct 20, 2013)

arnisador said:


> Dude. You want the govt. to grow the _economy_. It's working--albeit slowly right now.


No you want the Govt to get the hell out of the way and let the economy fix itself.


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## Tgace (Oct 20, 2013)

When did we start believing that it was governments responsibility to "create jobs" or "grow the economy"?

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2


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## ballen0351 (Oct 20, 2013)

arnisador said:


> Intl. trade works that way.


No it doesnt.  You dont need to blend economies to trade.  It was done as a power grab.  The US forced itself into everyones economy after WWII as a power grab.  It works fine when times are good.  Not so much when your running 600 million deficits and a 17 trillion in debt.


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## K-man (Oct 21, 2013)

ballen0351 said:


> No it doesnt.  You dont need to blend economies to trade.  It was done as a power grab.  The US forced itself into everyones economy after WWII as a power grab.  It works fine when times are good.  Not so much when your running 600 million deficits and a 17 trillion in debt.


Respectfully I think that you are putting too much importance on the US economy. Trade has been occurring between states for thousands of years. Economies are not blended. The US relies on the rest of the world to buy its goods. The US is no longer the top dog. That mantle is now with China. The US used to be the biggest manufacturer of cars. Now Japan and Korea are supplying the world and the Chinese are hot on their tails. If China fails, you go down the drain with the rest of us. No, the reason the US is important is because the $US is the world's reserve currency. If your economy goes down the currency goes down and worldwide people will not be able to repay their loans. That was what happened with the GFC.


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## K-man (Oct 21, 2013)

ballen0351 said:


> The corp. Giants are not bleeding anyone.  Its the bottom 50% of Americans that don't pay anything and take a lot.
> Its also just stupid spending policy.  We waste money for no reason.  We spend money on things we don't need because we don't want to give back grant money.  I know a Police Department with 14 total officers that used grant money to buy a helicopter.  They have no pilot and cant afford fuel and maintenance but they didn't want to not spend the money because then next year they wouldn't qualify for more money if they actually needed something.  My own department does it every year.  The Capt comes to every unit and says.  We have money to spend what do you want.  We have so much stupid stuff that's never used because we had to spend money.


You refused to acknowledge the video *elder* posted and I reposted on this thread. It shows the bottom 50% of Americans have nothing to give. It shows the top 1% own 40% of the nation's wealth and the bottom 80% have just 7%. For what it's worth I'll post it again. It shows the core of the problem and as the video points out, the situation has worsened dramatically over the past 30 years and will get worse unless it is addressed.
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/sh...alth-Inequality-In-America-and-its-perception


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## ballen0351 (Oct 21, 2013)

K-man said:


> You refused to acknowledge the video *elder* posted and I reposted on this thread. It shows the bottom 50% of Americans have nothing to give.


because its BS.  I have nothing to give either but I still do.  What did Obama say we all need some skin in the game


> It shows the top 1% own 40% of the nation's wealth and the bottom 80% have just 7%.


So what?  they also pay 90% of the income taxes.  Everyones so damn Jealous of the 1%.  I say good for them Im happy for them.   





> For what it's worth I'll post it again. It shows the core of the problem and as the video points out, the situation has worsened dramatically over the past 30 years and will get worse unless it is addressed.
> http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/sh...alth-Inequality-In-America-and-its-perception


and how do we address it?  ban the 1%?  take more of their money? but still refuse to require the bottom 50% to be more responsible with other peoples money


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## ballen0351 (Oct 21, 2013)

K-man said:


> Respectfully I think that you are putting too much importance on the US economy.


Im not you are the one givng the US too much importance.  It was you that said if our economy tanks so does yours and the rest of the worlds


> Trade has been occurring between states for thousands of years. Economies are not blended. The US relies on the rest of the world to buy its goods. The US is no longer the top dog. That mantle is now with China. The US used to be the biggest manufacturer of cars. Now Japan and Korea are supplying the world and the Chinese are hot on their tails. If China fails, you go down the drain with the rest of us. No, the reason the US is important is because the $US is the world's reserve currency. If your economy goes down the currency goes down and worldwide people will not be able to repay their loans. That was what happened with the GFC.


 I guess we better start cutting back on our spending


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## ballen0351 (Oct 21, 2013)

I finally watched the video you keep talking about that elder posed.  Seemed like a bunch of crying and moaning to me.


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## K-man (Oct 21, 2013)

ballen0351 said:


> I finally watched the video you keep talking about that elder posed.  Seemed like a bunch of crying and moaning to me.


OK, I can accept that. Just a couple of questions. Do you accept that that is the actual situation and are you happy with that situation?


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## ballen0351 (Oct 21, 2013)

K-man said:


> OK, I can accept that. Just a couple of questions. Do you accept that that is the actual situation and are you happy with that situation?


Is it an actual situation?  Sure the rich are rich and the poor are poor not a shock.  I will say our poor are alot better off then the poor in other countries so they really cant complain.  
Am I happy about it?  Im not anything I have no feelings about it, I dont care it doesn't effect me. I go to work do my job earn my check and go home.  Im happy with my life I dont think about or care about the rich or the 1%.  

So whats the problem with the rich being rich?  and how do you stop it?  why would you want to?


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## K-man (Oct 21, 2013)

ballen0351 said:


> Is it an actual situation?  Sure the rich are rich and the poor are poor not a shock.  I will say our poor are alot better off then the poor in other countries so they really cant complain.
> Am I happy about it?  Im not anything I have no feelings about it, I dont care it doesn't effect me. I go to work do my job earn my check and go home.  Im happy with my life I dont think about or care about the rich or the 1%.
> 
> So whats the problem with the rich being rich?  and how do you stop it?  why would you want to?


I would have thought America and the wealth of America should be the property of the people. The inequality is extreme, a little like what has happened in Russia where the cronies of the politicians have snapped up all the nation's resources.
so yes, the rich can be rich but 1% of the population owning 40% of the wealth? Wow!


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## ballen0351 (Oct 21, 2013)

K-man said:


> I would have thought America and the wealth of America should be the property of the people. The inequality is extreme, a little like what has happened in Russia where the cronies of the politicians have snapped up all the nation's resources.
> so yes, the rich can be rich but 1% of the population owning 40% of the wealth? Wow!


The wealth is property of the people.  The people that earned it.  
So what's your solution?  How much money is too much?  And when we take the extra cash who gets it?


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## arnisador (Oct 21, 2013)

What's the saying? The difference in America is that everyone thinks they're just a temporarily impoverished millionaire?


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## arnisador (Oct 21, 2013)

John Steinbeck: "Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires."


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## ballen0351 (Oct 21, 2013)

arnisador said:


> What's the saying? The difference in America is that everyone thinks they're just a temporarily impoverished millionaire?



Not me.  I'll never be a millionaire.  But I'm happy and content with what I have.  I don't look with jealously at the 1% and demand their heads taking every opportunity I can to attack them because of their paycheck.


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## arnisador (Oct 21, 2013)

I'm not attacking them. Good for them! But we still have to set tax rates somehow.


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## ballen0351 (Oct 21, 2013)

arnisador said:


> I'm not attacking them. Good for them! But we still have to set tax rates somehow.



We have a tax rate and its too high and too complicated in my opinion.


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## arnisador (Oct 21, 2013)

Big companies made it complicated through their buying of congressmen via lobbyists and campaign contributions.


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## ballen0351 (Oct 21, 2013)

arnisador said:


> Big companies made it complicated through their buying of congressmen via lobbyists and campaign contributions.


Big companies dont make tax code politicians do.  How many congressmen have you voted to send back to congress?  If you really have a problem with it why do you keep voting them back?


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## billc (Oct 22, 2013)

I enjoy the thread Ballen.  Of course it's government spending too much...stop that and the other problems solve themsleves...


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