# Changed from Karate to Muay Thai



## Buster (Apr 8, 2008)

Hi folks,
This is my first post.I have recently taken my son out of his regular Karate class to join the local Muay Thai club.
The reason being, that he has been doing Karate for two and a half years now and I still don't think he has learned how to look after himself if the need arises.
From what I have seen at Muay Thai they do a lot more pad and sparring work from day one.They also have inter club tournaments to gain fighting experience.
In your opinions,have I done the right thing?


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## terryl965 (Apr 8, 2008)

First welcome to Martial Talk, now on to your question does your son like it if so YES, if not find out why and go from there. Second how old is your son? Next is the instructor better suited for your son or for you remember if the student does not like there instructor it is a waste of money to be there. Lastly why is it so important for himlearning how to fight, woud it not be better to learn how to control one mental abilities so one does not have to fight.

PS remember sparring is just that sparring do they teach about the law and what is right and wrong?


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## tellner (Apr 8, 2008)

Definitely. You are the best judge or your child's overall state and what he needs. 

Muay Thai does develop useful skill faster than Karate. There may be extra benefits down the line for the karateka that the Thai boxer will miss out on. But if you want him to learn to scrap in faster he's probably better off where you just put him.


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## FieldDiscipline (Apr 8, 2008)

tellner said:


> Muay Thai does develop useful skill faster than Karate.



Hmmm.


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## JBrainard (Apr 8, 2008)

FieldDiscipline said:


> Hmmm.


 
Gotta' agree with Tellner on this one. Muay Thai is fast and simple. Karate is, well, karate. Nothing against you karate folks out there, but how many years of study did it take for you to become confident that you could manage the average street encounter?


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## tellner (Apr 8, 2008)

FieldDiscipline said:


> Hmmm.



Hmmm what?

Muay Thai has a steep learning curve. You can take someone from zero to ready for the ring in under two years with some serious work. In that time a Thai boxer will be able to work at kickboxing range and in the clinch. He'll be able to hit, kick, knee, elbow, take a hit and keep from getting hit. He'll also be in damned good shape which takes you a long way in a fight. 

By Karate's own lights it takes five years or so to become a black belt when "the real study begins". A lot of that time will be spent practicing long choreographed routines whose meaning will blossom and become apparent maybe a decade later. 

Is there any reason to believe that the karateka will get useful fighting skills faster in the short term than the Thai boxer?


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## Zero (Apr 9, 2008)

This view of MT against karate (karate being such a massive and broad term for styles) does of course to a degree depend on the very school and individual teachers you or your child are going to.  But on the whole I would have to agree that short term, the focus of MT is more on actual training for fight fitness and sparring and the direct learning/drilling of techniques to be used in the ring.

This however is a world apart form being trained, in mental ability, alertness and agility.  An ongoing appreciation for one's surroundings and how to avoid and diffuse potentially dangerous situations I would think is of prime importance.  However, if your son actually finds himself in a position where he needs to duke it out, with a minimal background in training then maybe your choice is right in the style of MA you're now at.

From my own experience I would have to disagree with this though, as my old goju club where i trained at was heavily focused on fighting, competition events and street defense/attack.  From day one I was instructed and trained in fighting and self defense applications.  I had a history in TKD and judo so was not new to MA or fighting but this also applied to other new joiners that were 'fresh'.  The focus was lesser on kata and traditional progression - although this depended largely on what the individual student wanted.  I can appreciate however that many karate schools are not set up that way and have visited quite a few that seemed pretty pathetic at equiping their students, even at black belt level, for real life confrontation.


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## Logan (Apr 9, 2008)

I think, as indicated, it ultimately depends on (a) the relationship between your child and the instructor and (b) the quality of the instructor.

I really don't think which martial style matters (except to the individual). Both cover appropriate material relative to defending yourself. Some karate dojos will spar or whatever more than some Muay Thai clubs....and vice versa (it is just finding a good one)


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## arnisador (Apr 9, 2008)

tellner said:


> You are the best judge or your child's overall state and what he needs.



Agreed. If you sense your son isn't yet confident in defending himself, make a change!



> Muay Thai does develop useful skill faster than Karate. There may be extra benefits down the line for the karateka that the Thai boxer will miss out on. But if you want him to learn to scrap in faster he's probably better off where you just put him.



Agreed, unless they won't let him spar at his age (I've seen 16+ and/or 1-2 years of pad work requirements to spar at some places). Muay Thai is a sport. That means that they're required to learn how to make their stuff work against a resisting opponent. That's what makes (kick)boxing and wrestling/grappling arts so very effective despite being "mere" sports.

Mind you, there are old-school karate dojos out there where they do spar hard and competitively and really learn how to fight. But if he's not putting on the gloves and hitting and getting hit, there will be limits to his ability to fight...and more importantly, to his confidence in his ability.

Long term, Muay Thai doesn't address multiple attackers, weapon-wielding attackers, ground-grappling, and many other things that are good to know, and karate may be easier to practice as a _life-long_ hobby. These things matter too. But if my son was in need of fighting for every-day hassles (as oppsoed to being an LEO or something), I'd figure that Muay Thai plus Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu would be a hard combination to beat for the "usual" sort of unusual circumstances.

I've had a knife pulled on me and I was glad I knew something about the Filipino martial arts then. Muay Thai is not my first choice there.


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## myusername (Apr 9, 2008)

If your son is happy with your choice then you have made the right choice.


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## meth18au (Apr 10, 2008)

Buster said:


> Hi folks,
> This is my first post.I have recently taken my son out of his regular Karate class to join the local Muay Thai club.
> The reason being, that he has been doing Karate for two and a half years now and I still don't think he has learned how to look after himself if the need arises.
> From what I have seen at Muay Thai they do a lot more pad and sparring work from day one.They also have inter club tournaments to gain fighting experience.
> In your opinions,have I done the right thing?




MT will give him very good skills, in a reasonable amount of time.  This is considering he has a real Muay Thai teacher, whom is competent.  And also that he puts in the hard work over time, or even just keeps it regular.  Reassess his abilities after a year....he'll have a good skills base by then.

If you think it was the right thing....then as his father....that is your choice to make the call.

Good luck to your son on his journey in Thai boxing...


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## vankuen (Apr 10, 2008)

arnisador said:


> Long term, Muay Thai doesn't address multiple attackers, weapon-wielding attackers, ground-grappling, and many other things that are good to know, and karate may be easier to practice as a _life-long_ hobby. These things matter too. But if my son was in need of fighting for every-day hassles (as oppsoed to being an LEO or something), I'd figure that Muay Thai plus Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu would be a hard combination to beat for the "usual" sort of unusual circumstances.
> 
> I've had a knife pulled on me and I was glad I knew something about the Filipino martial arts then. Muay Thai is not my first choice there.


 
Damn good points right there.  Even I hadn't thought about that aspect of speciality with MT lately...I sort of forget sometimes where I learned things.  

I know that MT brought me up to fighting shape and made me a better fighter within weeks as opposed to the years of TKD that I studied previously.  But you're right--I learned breakfalls, joint locks, throws, chokes, etc from the more traditional styles.  

Today I think that as long as someone has skills in both standup and groundwork that they should be fine for the most part.  The multiple attacker scenario is relative because if there's too many attackers, nothing you do will work.  If there's just a few attackers you might get away with taking one at a time, or have to take two at a time.  Any stiking art in my opinion could be suited for this.  But in general, even I tend to stay away from pissing off a group of people.  The mob mentality takes over--and a group of angry folks can do things they didn't originally intend from an individual standpoint--like kill you.  Bad joo-joo all around.  

Long story short; karate is good, mt is good--but for different reasons.


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## thaistyle (Apr 14, 2008)

First of all, does your son like the muay thai classes?  If so, then you probably did the right thing.  You're not the first to change arts.  I trained with a couple of guys years ago that had their black belt in Tae Kwon Do, and they both switched. One felt he could defend himself better with muay thai and the other thought muay thai was more practical.  If your son couldn't look after himself after all that time in karate, that doesn't say much for the karate class/instructor.  It doesn't mean that karate is a bad art.  I think your son would benefit from daily bag work and light sparring sessions.  He might have trouble breaking away from the karate stances and blocks for the first few weeks.


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## Martin Keogh (Aug 20, 2008)

<Edit - sorry, just realized this was a very old post!  If your son is still in MT, how's it going? >

I'm a Muay Thai white belt, going back to MA at the ripe-old age of 37.  

I've done MA on and off my whole life, but I'm no fighter.

After my 3rd MT class, my wife and I were approached in the movie theater parking lot by a few guys.  I could tell by the way they were coming they were up to no good.

Nothing happened, but my game-plan if he charged was to take his leg out w/ a low thai kick.  I didn't even have to think about it, it was reactionary.  3rd class, btw.

(Turns out a buddy was behind me, they were messing with him, we were in the middle, and I never saw him - scary - but I was gonna take out the ringleader, where my focus was).

Now, 2 months into it, my boxing skill are better, but I'd still probably throw a few techniques to distract and go low w/ a thai kick.

Very easy, very powerful - and similar to Hsing I (Chinese internal MA I took for a while), no matter what you hit, you're doing damage.

It does make you aggressive, however - not that you'll go looking for trouble, but if you throw something at me suddenly, look out - I may take the hit, but there'll be techniques coming back.

Once I'm better, I will have more control - but when my wife or daughters play, I have to be very careful...  

I like the knees and elbows, btw.  Very devastating!  My girls will learn this art, along w/ some JJ for ground work (keeping the guys off) 

Keogh


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## Slihn (Aug 21, 2008)

Buster said:


> Hi folks,
> This is my first post.I have recently taken my son out of his regular Karate class to join the local Muay Thai club.
> The reason being, that he has been doing Karate for two and a half years now and I still don't think he has learned how to look after himself if the need arises.
> From what I have seen at Muay Thai they do a lot more pad and sparring work from day one.They also have inter club tournaments to gain fighting experience.
> In your opinions,have I done the right thing?


 
Awesome choice!! He will defininety be able to look after himself is he trains in Muay Thai!!


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## Buster (Aug 24, 2008)

It's going very well thanks Martin.
My son has adapted very well and is enjoying Muay Thai.He has stepped up his training to twice a week now.He joined a seperate football team so he could get the extra session.
Hopefully we will see the benefits soon.


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## jarrod (Aug 24, 2008)

one of the most important things is that your kid enjoys it.  another thing to consider is that children have different needs in martial arts than adults do.  i think for kids the important things to learn are self-discipline, work ethic, confidence, & becoming accustom to some aggressive physical contact.  there aren't a lot of children who need to become combat effective in the shortest amount of time possible.  

speaking as someone who doesn't have kids yet (so take what i say with a grain of salt)  i wouldn't want my child necessarily kneeing the schoolyard bully into unconsiousness.  for instance, most kids aren't dealing with life-or-death, multiple attacker situations.  stick him in judo or wrestling & he'll be able to toss a bully & hold him down.  as he matures, he'll already be used to going head-to-head in a stressful situation, THEN you can add more dangerous techniques.  

just my thoughts,
jf


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