# Massage Therapy & Kenpo



## warrior.mama (Jan 3, 2004)

I am a massage therapy student and a kenpoist of 7+ years.  As I work with martial artists, I am finding that massage seems to be helpful to martial artists in dealing with injuries, overly tight muscles and stress.  I know there are also other ways that massage benefits martial artists and I would like to hear your experiences.

I would like to hear your stories on how massage therapy has helped you (or hasn't helped you) in your kenpo journey.

If you have anything to share, please post or you can email me directly at warrior.mama@verizon.net.

Thank you.  I look forward to hearing your stories.

warrior.mama


----------



## gravity (Jan 4, 2004)

I'm a Kenpo student (4 years). Last year I went to Thailand and trained in Muay Thai and every other day there I was having traditional massage (many refer to it as passive yoga). 

I found the massages enabled me to train for longer periods and recovery was faster.....it also helped in streching the muscles and improving flexibility. In fact I'm heading back to Thailand again for MT this month and am gonna join a 30 hour traditional thai massage course (based on traditional thai medicine).


----------



## Arthur (Jan 4, 2004)

kempo is not my martial art, but massage (and shiatsu, Sotai & Chinese medicine in general) have helped my martial arts tremendously. In the martial art I currently do (Russian Systema), we sometimes talk of massage as being 30% of the art.

My massage skills and knowledge help my sensitivity, my ability to listen to the others body through my hands. It helps me to understand where their areas of tension and resistance are. It gives me a background in functional anatomy and kinesiology, which help me to understand movement and perhaps more importantly efficient movement better.

I can learn new movements quicker and more correctly because of my knoweledge base, but can read and understand the partner/opponent better because of the skills.

In my school you can clearly see the difference between the students who have chosen to study massage alongside their martial arts vs. those that haven't. Its so evident that the rest of the student population have all requested that I again begin teaching massage as part of the curriculum. 

We now have students who value the massage and Sotai (sort of like a soft style of chriropractics and Feldenkrais put together) at least as much as the martial training.

The other great benefit of course that comes when you have a class doing it... is everybody is being worked on, so they get the health benefis of the treatment, which are great for martial arts and life in general too.

Great question warrior.mama Thanks for asking it.

Arthur


----------



## warrior.mama (Jan 4, 2004)

gravity & Arthur

Thank you for your posts.

Anyone else have experiences/stories to share?

warrior.mama


----------



## Kenpomachine (Jan 5, 2004)

I have my own story to share. 

On the one hand, I use to give massages to friends when I feel stressed. It's one of the best ways I know of to relieve stress 

On the other hand, I have needed it done to me twice. The first time, it was my TKD instructor, and he was surprised my back was so strained and tensioned. He *crushed* my vertebrae one by one. The next day I was a new person.

The second time, it was a fisiotherapist, and it was due to a cervical contracture or sprained neck. The best part of the treatment, even if it was the more painful, was the manipulation of the neck. I needed some sessions, completed with other therapies, but I have recovered completely.


----------



## howardr (Jan 5, 2004)

> _Originally posted by warrior.mama _
> *gravity & Arthur
> 
> Thank you for your posts.
> ...



Deep tissue massage (painful but worth every minute) with trigger point therapy and shiatsu has dramatically helped my upper back and neck. It's a life saver!

I hear that ART (Active Release Therapy) is excellent.


----------



## Old Fat Kenpoka (Jan 5, 2004)

Ted Sumner of San Jose Kenpo has some information on his website.  

www.sanjosekenpo.com


----------



## Brother John (Jan 5, 2004)

I could see Kenpo helping in one's martial arts career.
Makes good sense.
Personally, it's helped me more in my weight training than in martial arts, though it's good for me to sit (or lay) still for a bit and stop all this movin...

Helped my weight training by eliminating soreness and keeping overworked muscles more supple. Shortens recovery time too.

Your Bro.
John


----------



## Grasshoppah (Jan 5, 2004)

massage and detoxify is good so you can get rid of stagnant chi which is poison and unhealthy. If you let yourself get banged up in training and fighting you'll have problems later.


----------



## JD_Nelson (Jan 5, 2004)

> massage and detoxify is good so you can get rid of stagnant chi which is poison and unhealthy. If you let yourself get banged up in training and fighting you'll have problems later.



Is this really a true statement?  


Salute,

JD


----------



## Grasshoppah (Jan 5, 2004)

> _Originally posted by JD_Nelson _
> *Is this really a true statement?
> 
> 
> ...



What part would you like know if true?
Massage
Detoxify
stagnant chi
poison
unhealthy
getting banged up
or problems later

If this does not benifit you in anyway, good you don't have to believe.


----------



## Iron Dog (Jan 5, 2004)

Ah yes, massage. Actually, I cannot think of a better way to put a person back in action, what ever that may be, than with a healing massage. I try and get a massage at least every other month for maintenance, and  more frequently when the training outdoes the trainee.
Here are my favorites: Active Realease Therapy. Usually the practitioner is a Chiropractor or has a Physical Therapy degree and uses it in his practice. The best one? Dr. Bob Meier of Austin Texas. Soft Tissue Release, by Stuart Taws who is now just teaching it. I get it done by C.C. Borne a dedicated therapist. Sigung LaBounty also is versed in this and Acupressure. SeiFuku Jutsu, Dr. T. Crimi who I met in Seattle last year, Ted Sumner, Steve LaBounty, Hiraono McKenzie my old Jitsu partner, to name a few others. Just plain old Swedish for maintenence and relaxation. Anne Steinbock one of the best.
This is MY list and I'm sure there are hundreds. The best thing is to find one you are comfortable with and give it a try. Just read the posts from the others who have greatly benefited from it.
Patrick


----------



## Old Fat Kenpoka (Jan 6, 2004)

When my son was about 4-months old, my wife took him to an infant massage seminar.

Basically, they teach you to place the naked baby on a towel.  Use plenty of massage oil.  Do the arms and legs, then massage the back.  Finally, massage the front.  The babies get so relaxed they fall asleep.  And they poop.

Oualaah!  No more stagnant Chi!


----------



## KenpoTess (Jan 6, 2004)

My daughter is training to be a Massage Therapist and when she was up over the holidays she brought her massage chair and gave me a wonderful massage.  After my car accident I was going to therapy a few times a week and I had to switch to a Male masseur as the females weren't able to get the depth into my back muscles.  My daughter won't have that problem.. she's got it down pat..  
Now she gave me the massage before sparring class.. and not only my back.. but my arms and head.. I couldn't believe the difference in my sparring that night.. totally amazing.. my flexibilty was right on, my entire form relaxed and fluid.. 
I totally advocate Massage therapy.. sure wish she lived closer~!!!


----------



## Old Fat Kenpoka (Jan 6, 2004)

My sister in law is a massage therapist and articulates the same benefits Tess experienced.  My wife finds massages very relaxing and gets them fairly often to untie the knots in her neck and shoulders.  

I have yet to find a masseur who can match the impact pressure of a good Kenpo sparring session or a chiropractor who can crank like some of my Jiu Jitsu training partners.


----------



## jeffkyle (Jan 6, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Old Fat Kenpoka _
> *When my son was about 4-months old, my wife took him to an infant massage seminar.
> 
> Basically, they teach you to place the naked baby on a towel.  Use plenty of massage oil.  Do the arms and legs, then massage the back.  Finally, massage the front.  The babies get so relaxed they fall asleep.  And they poop.
> ...



hahahahahahaha!


----------



## Brother John (Jan 7, 2004)

> _Originally posted by JD_Nelson _
> *Is this really a true statement?
> 
> Salute,
> ...


Good question.
It's not that Chi becomes stagnant I don't think, just that it doesn't continue to flow...that's where the damage comes from I think.
True, Chi is seen to move along currents and merridians...and just as a stream can be dammed up, so can these channels. But to my understanding it's not the build up that does the damage, but the lack of fluidly moving chi past the blockage.
the body can then be renewed with the reestablished flow of chi to the 'drought' affected areas. It's one of the basic premises of accupressure (very much an oriental massage) and accupuncture I believe, affecting the common points of build up in order to restablish a healthy movement of Chi.
Blockage creates unbalance
lack of balance creates the worst problems.
Though it stands to reason that Chi is an energy, and any energy held in stasis in a container too long deteriorates and/or harms that which is holding it. (batery acid breaking down, engines overheating due to buildup of heat...etc...)

In the west it's been known for some time that massage renews the energy channels of the body. I believe that though they didn't call it Chi, it was called "Orgone". Check it out. Kinda interesting.

In the study of massage people come to realize that a really gooood massage will clean out the body, resulting in....often, diarhea...
no kidding.


Your Brother
John


----------



## Old Fat Kenpoka (Jan 7, 2004)

Massage therapy can relax muscles, align spines, get fluids (including accumulating toxins) moving.

But, all this talk about Chi and stagnant Chi is either martial arts double-talk for the physical benefits of massage or just folk medicine nonsense as real as faith-healing and black magic.

There, I said it.


----------



## Brother John (Jan 7, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Old Fat Kenpoka _
> *Massage therapy can relax muscles, align spines, get fluids (including accumulating toxins) moving.
> 
> But, all this talk about Chi and stagnant Chi is either martial arts double-talk for the physical benefits of massage or just folk medicine nonsense as real as faith-healing and black magic.
> ...


Ok....folk medicine I understand. Though to the Chinese people it's not 'folk' at all...just medicine. It's not 'our' medicine, not based on wester empirical approach...so we dismiss it as "folk". I know of it's efficacy first hand and from others... others who went in doubting it also; but it worked better than they could have ever wished.

The fact that you don't understand it, doesn't invalidate the subject. 
Reality doesn't need you or I to understand, or agree...
it just is.
even magic
OR
Faith-healing
Which I have also witnessed.

"There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened."  
                                Douglas Adams  

"The most beautiful emotion we can experience is the mysterious. It is the power of all true art and science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead. To know that what is impenetrable to us really exists, manifesting itself as the highest wisdom and the most radiant beauty, which our dull faculties can comprehend only in their most primitive forms -- this knowledge, this feeling, is at the center of true religiousness. In this sense, and in this sense only, I belong to the rank of devoutly religious men." 
                                                              Albert Einstein  

Your Brother
John


----------



## Old Fat Kenpoka (Jan 7, 2004)

OK, we have different experiences and different perspectives.  You are a believer and I am a skeptic.  Until I read about a proof of Chi in the AMA journal I will remain skeptical.  I'll also remain skeptical about faith healing until I die and wind up somewhere else.


----------



## Brother John (Jan 7, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Old Fat Kenpoka _
> *OK, we have different experiences and different perspectives.  You are a believer and I am a skeptic.  Until I read about a proof of Chi in the AMA journal I will remain skeptical.  I'll also remain skeptical about faith healing until I die and wind up somewhere else. *


OK.

Funny you should mention it.
There is a big movement in western medicine to do empirical research on TCM (Traditional Chinese Medicine).
If the AMA journal writes about it, even if it's not "proof"....
Ya owes me a steak dinner...
:asian: 

Your Brother
John


----------



## Old Fat Kenpoka (Jan 8, 2004)

Gladly.  We would need to do it in Kansas because the steaks are much better there.  Here the specialty of late seems to be Pho.


----------



## warrior.mama (Jan 25, 2004)

Thank you to everyone who has posted their comments or emailed to me.  I appreciate you sharing.

Iron Dog - I laughed today when I re-read your phrase "when the training outdoes the trainee".  I could really use a good massage right now as my training definitely outdid me today.

Thank you
warrior.mama


----------

