# Do you beleive Bruce truely dropped Wing Chun?



## James Kovacich (Oct 10, 2009)

Do you believe Bruce truely dropped Wing Chun or maybe he just stopped teaching it in order to evolve his"personal" JKD?


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## jkd friend (Oct 11, 2009)

Of course not! personal means your development in the art itself not bringing fifty different approaches to a art or concept. That's were alot of the confusion in jkd comes from the whole personal thing.


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## ap Oweyn (Oct 11, 2009)

James Kovacich said:


> Do you believe Bruce truely dropped Wing Chun or maybe he just stopped teaching it in order to evolve his"personal" JKD?


 
I don't know how you truely "drop" a personal experience like that.  His wing chun training was tied up in what he went on to do later, regardless of how little it might have resembled wing chun as it went along.

But if you're asking whether I think he was practicing textbook wing chun on the side, while publically developing his own JKD, nah I don't think so.  I don't have any concrete basis for saying that.  But I would wonder why the contradiction, when (with his charisma and following) he could have just as easily, or _more easily_, have furthered the cause of a style he still--according to this scenario--believed in.

Just doesn't seem likely.


Stuart


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## chinaboxer (Oct 11, 2009)

fun question, IMO Bruce was on his way to removing the wing chun "movements" from his personal JKD, at that moment in his life. But he never removed or would remove the wing chun "concepts" from his personal JKD, why? because it's the very foundation of his method.

look at his boxing structure, it's all fueled and modified to fit within the core wing chun "concepts" which is why it completely looks and feels differently than traditional boxing.

where the confusion lies is that many martial artists think of wing chun as a technique based martial art and it's not, it's completely concept based. that's why Bruce Lee could fit the "concepts" into any other method such as boxing, fencing, grappling etc...

Jin


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## Free Life (Oct 12, 2009)

chinaboxer said:


> fun question, IMO Bruce was on his way to removing the wing chun "movements" from his personal JKD, at that moment in his life. But he never removed or would remove the wing chun "concepts" from his personal JKD, why? because it's the very foundation of his method.
> 
> look at his boxing structure, it's all fueled and modified to fit within the core wing chun "concepts" which is why it completely looks and feels differently than traditional boxing.
> 
> ...


 Thats what I would love to do someday. I wanna learn Wing Chun and later in my life Bild my own style. Or get so flippin awsome at wing chun that I can perhaps ADD to it. ya know what I mean?


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## Kajowaraku (Oct 12, 2009)

Free Life said:


> Thats what I would love to do someday. I wanna learn Wing Chun and later in my life Bild my own style. Or get so flippin awsome at wing chun that I can perhaps ADD to it. ya know what I mean?


 
I wish you a long and prosperous life and alot of good luck.


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## Laoshi77 (Oct 16, 2009)

Bruce Lee's teacher Master Wong Shun Leung was often on-set of 'Enter the Dragon' helping choreograph many fight scenes.
Off-set the two trained again and Bruce intended to finish his WC studies at some point in the future, unfortunately that never happened. 

According to Dan Inosanto the last time he sparred with Bruce he said that Bruce was staying out of range and using his skill and speed to 'bridge the gap'. Of course this is more JKD than WC but others have noted that Bruce's JKD actually resembled WC before he died. But who knows for sure?

I personally think he valued the WC system and it was very much part of the JKD philosophy. Remember also that Master Wong modified WC accordingly as a result of his fights to make it as efficient as possible, Lee did the same.


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## dungeonworks (Oct 17, 2009)

chinaboxer said:


> fun question, IMO Bruce was on his way to removing the wing chun "movements" from his personal JKD, at that moment in his life. But he never removed or would remove the wing chun "concepts" from his personal JKD, why? because it's the very foundation of his method.
> 
> look at his boxing structure, it's all fueled and modified to fit within the core wing chun "concepts" which is why it completely looks and feels differently than traditional boxing.
> 
> ...



That is the hard part to put into words when speaking with some Wing Chun purists.  I have had the same feeling when I trained WC as I had a whale of a time using the WC footwork.  I felt I could not move as fast as I could using boxing or kickboxing footwork I have learned and used in previous styles and schools.



Laoshi77 said:


> Bruce Lee's teacher Master Wong Shun Leung was often on-set of 'Enter the Dragon' helping choreograph many fight scenes.
> Off-set the two trained again and Bruce intended to finish his WC studies at some point in the future, unfortunately that never happened.
> 
> According to Dan Inosanto the last time he sparred with Bruce he said that Bruce was staying out of range and using his skill and speed to 'bridge the gap'. Of course this is more JKD than WC but others have noted that Bruce's JKD actually resembled WC before he died. But who knows for sure?
> ...



Could this be the result of the way people fight and the age/physical abilities at the time of the WC master's life?  At 37 yrs old, I am starting to clearly see some limitations as to what I used to be able to do and what I can do now, especially kicking techniques.  People, even untrained people fight much differently as time goes by and not to mention WHERE said people are geographically and with their physical ability.  I very much intend of returning to traditional Wing Chun or even Wing Tzun or Tsun.  I guess I am saying as I get older, I prefer more countering and letting the opponent come to me, which plays to the strengths of Wing Chun.  Am I off base with this thought?  In my opinion, the less mobile we become as we age, it offers a better tool box for self defense outside of a sport or training hall.  Why not use the physical abilities if you have them and adapt accordingly?  I both can be done sticking to the WC principles...even on the ground or kicking range....and especial in boxing/clinch ranges.

All of my opinions are based off of what I have seen, done, and learned thus far and I am appreciative of any dialogue correcting these.  We all see Martial Arts through our own windows so to speak.


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## pmosiun1 (Oct 18, 2009)

I don't think you can say what Bruce did is textbook Wing Chun. He did not drop the trapping and chi sao because you could clearly see it in his movie.


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## Laoshi77 (Oct 20, 2009)

dungeonworks said:


> Could this be the result of the way people fight and the age/physical abilities at the time of the WC master's life? At 37 yrs old, I am starting to clearly see some limitations as to what I used to be able to do and what I can do now, especially kicking techniques. People, even untrained people fight much differently as time goes by and not to mention WHERE said people are geographically and with their physical ability. I very much intend of returning to traditional Wing Chun or even Wing Tzun or Tsun. I guess I am saying as I get older, I prefer more countering and letting the opponent come to me, which plays to the strengths of Wing Chun. Am I off base with this thought? In my opinion, the less mobile we become as we age, it offers a better tool box for self defense outside of a sport or training hall. Why not use the physical abilities if you have them and adapt accordingly? I both can be done sticking to the WC principles...even on the ground or kicking range....and especial in boxing/clinch ranges.
> 
> All of my opinions are based off of what I have seen, done, and learned thus far and I am appreciative of any dialogue correcting these. We all see Martial Arts through our own windows so to speak.


 
It's a very good point and the reason why MMA is a phase, the deeper principles of understanding are exemplified by adapting to one's situation over time.

I myself have studied Taijiquan for a little over ten years now and JKD much before that, however I know when I reach my later years relying on speed and power may not be possible. This is where the Taiji would serve me well and in your case WC (I know a little WC too).


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## leejunfan (Dec 8, 2009)

ap Oweyn said:


> I don't know how you truely "drop" a personal experience like that. His wing chun training was tied up in what he went on to do later, regardless of how little it might have resembled wing chun as it went along.
> 
> But if you're asking whether I think he was practicing textbook wing chun on the side, while publically developing his own JKD, nah I don't think so. I don't have any concrete basis for saying that. But I would wonder why the contradiction, when (with his charisma and following) he could have just as easily, or _more easily_, have furthered the cause of a style he still--according to this scenario--believed in.
> 
> ...


 
You dont drop it, its like 'dropping' riding a bike knowledge, or 'dropping' how to drive a car.. once an art is truely learned its ingrained just like riding a bike or driving a car... it just cant be unlearned.

It was incorporated into Bruce Lees personal JKD, amoung other techniques, JDK is different for each person, it conceptual!! Not a fixed art.


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## celtic_crippler (Dec 8, 2009)

People aren't thumb-drives that can easily have memory erased. You retain your experiences and training no matter the journey. 

He may have stopped teaching the Wing Chun he was taught, but it's still there and evident in JKD.


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## dungeonworks (Dec 8, 2009)

I train with a local JKD Concepts class and we still practice Wing Chun trapping quite often.  I did Wing Chun for about 16 months or so and have found myself using it on a basic level while sparring....which we never sparred in my old Wing Chun class.  We practice Fillipino trapping more than the Wing Chun, but me personally, I am more comfortable with the WC trapping and prefer it to the Fillipino.  I cannot say one is better than the other because I am still "making friends" with the Fillipino traps, but I do like them both.....regardless if Bruce dropped the trapping or not.  I may have ignored the trapping had I studied it when I was younger and more athletically mobile, especially coming from a Koei Kan Karate Do and Kickboxing background.  Now, older and many miles more on my odometer, trapping makes more sense...plus it is fun learning new (to me) ways to deal with old attacks.  My traps are pretty much Pak Sao punch and a few other basic traps/counters.  Anything trickier than that is very difficult with boxing gloves on for me.  I feel they offer a good bridge.


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## Mider1985 (Dec 19, 2009)

Bruce Lee trained under maybe the most famous Wing Chun teacher ever Yip Man there are still a few of his students around. One is in NY his name is Sifu Lee He calls his school APPLIED wing chun so that it works in the real world, Anyway i guess thats what Bruce Lee wanted the best art he could possibly make.......get rid of the crap you dont need and keep the stuff you do. The JKD ive seen by Ron Balicki who was taught by Dan Inosanto still uses sticky hands, JKD has boxing and fencing added to it, and from wing chun the kicks are similar, JKD says that you never need to chamber your leg kick in say savate.

So did he drop wing chun? No Wing Chun or parts of it still live on today in the art of JKD so does boxing, and fencing and other arts.


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