# 10 things about the entertainment industry that piss me off



## Tgace (Jun 10, 2012)

Ask my wife and she will tell you, I can get out of control when I am watching any television show or movie about the military or law enforcement. The constant, recurring mistakes and misinformation that these industries put out just get in my craw and I have to yell &#8220;********!!&#8221; It makes me wonder, don&#8217;t these shows have advisers? If they do, what the hell are they getting paid for? Or is it that the directors think that they have better knowledge on these topics? The following are at the top of my WTF?!?! list:
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1. Give me that before you hurt yourself:*Cops and soldiers are constantly &#8220;racking&#8221; their weapons. I mean come on! I carry with a round in the chamber all the time. If I had to constantly rack my weapon every time I drew it there would be brass flying everywhere and my co-workers would think I lost my mind. I know that directors love the &#8220;click clack&#8221; of weapons being cycled but use your goddamn head! SWAT teams don&#8217;t stack up on a door and THEN load their weapons. FBI agents don&#8217;t have to charge their pistols after they draw them and they definitely don&#8217;t have to do it two more times in the same incident! Racking your shotgun just before you kick down a door is f$#%ing STUPID!! Going into an apartment after a serial killer, knocking on the door, hearing him run out the back and THEN racking your pistol and giving chase&#8230;F#$%ING STUPID!!!
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Addendum: Lets see what else have I seen&#8230;oh yeah.**FYI you director types, there is no &#8220;safety&#8221; on a Glock pistol so a character telling someone with a Glock &#8220;turn off your safety&#8221; makes no sense. And what is up with that &#8220;clickety clack&#8221; sound every time someone draws a pistol?? Is that supposed to be the safety disengaging (if it&#8217;s a Glock refer to my previous comment)? Is that supposed to be a hammer cocking? Cause it doesn&#8217;t sound like that and hell&#8230;nobody really thumb cocks an automatic that often.**OH! And another thing, when a Glock (or any striker fired pistol) runs empty, and if by some chance the slide fails to lock back (why do so few television pistols reach lock back?), it will only &#8220;click&#8221; once. These shows where an empty Glock runs out of ammo and goes &#8220;click&#8230;click&#8230;click..&#8221; well&#8230;whoever made that creative decision&#8230;YOU ARE AN IDIOT!!!
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2. Oh what the hell why not?:*Every Tom, Dick and Harry stacking up with the SWAT team, I think not. If my blood pressure went up one mmHg every time I saw some &#8220;CSI&#8221;, &#8220;FBI Investigator&#8221; or &#8220;Detective&#8221; stacking up with the tactical team to go in and get the bad guy my head would F&#8217;n explode!News Flash. If I saw some &#8220;CSI&#8221; getting in my stack on a high risk entry he would get a boot up his ***. No SWAT team leader worth is salt is going say_&#8230;&#8221;OK you FBI Profiler with no tactical training I am aware of, or experience with MY team, go right ahead and get in the stack.&#8221;_The only thing that gets me more pissed off is when the SWAT team rams the door and Horatio Crane in his shades is the first guy through the door! Hello numbnuts director, the way it works is the SWAT team goes in ALONE!! and when its secure they call the eggheads and Detectives in.
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3. Uniformed Cops as props:*Every Detective/Profiler/CSI show or movie out there has uniformed cops as &#8220;background&#8221;. They walk aimlessly here there and everywhere with clipboards or magically appear to conveniently slap the cuffs on the bad guy that the dweeb from the &#8220;crime lab&#8221; ran down in a raging gunfight&#8230;please.Or its the &#8220;dumbass uniform&#8221; who screws up the investigation that the star detective has to deal with.Then&#8230;like in #2, when some &#8220;hot call&#8221; goes out I don&#8217;t know why TV cops bother to even show up. You know its the hot detective from the crime lab that is going to go in first and fight mano y mano with the serial killer. Where the hell the uniform cops went nobody knows, they just show up to haul off the bad guy to the station. They must have stopped in the kitchen for some coffee while the hero did all the work.
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4. Hello I&#8217;m with the Gvt and I&#8217;m here to help:*CSI and Criminal Minds&#8230;you always hear &#8220;were just here to help with your investigation, not take it over&#8230;&#8221; yet somehow its always some profiler that takes over the investigation and gets involved in the shooting or the apprehension. I know it wouldn&#8217;t be exciting if the agents sat in the office all day and the local cops were the ones making the arrests, but that&#8217;s how it is. By and large FBI agents are investigators, accountants, lawyers and lab techs.And these CSI teams..it always impresses me how CSI works local, county, state, federal and hell even international cases. Who the hell do these guys work for anyways?
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5. Kill em and Leave em:*The &#8220;profilers&#8221; arrive like the cavalry&#8230;light up some scumbag and then hop back on their jet and fly off into the sunset. Yeah when an on-duty shooting happens that&#8217;s pretty much how it goes..no investigations, lawsuits or court appearances necessary. If you are &#8220;with the crime lab&#8221; or a &#8220;profiler&#8221; you can just holster up and walk away.
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6. Nuclear Grenades:* Some Delta Operator tosses a fragmentation grenade into a window and the whole floor erupts into a raging inferno of a fireball like a suitcase nuke just went off&#8230;.uhhhhh&#8230;no. A loud BOOM! a puff of smoke and a lot of little bits of metal flying about is about it.
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7. Crappy Salutes:* Need I elaborate? Some of these actors salutes would make a Drill Sergeant break out in hives.
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8. Weird Science:*No we don&#8217;t have computer databases of every matchbook from every club in the tri-state area. No we cant piece a broken bottle together and get a fingerprint that comes back instantly to a known felon (that gets picked up in 20 seconds). NO DNA TESTING IS NOT A &#8220;WHILE YOU WAIT&#8221; PROCESS!These shows have gotten so out of hand with their &#8220;stretching&#8221; of real forensic science that juries have been clearing criminals of their charges because the proof wasn&#8217;t &#8220;as conclusive as they see on CSI&#8221;. Prosecutors even have a name for this phenomenon. &#8220;The CSI effect&#8221;.
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9. Tuck that thing in:* Military movies where everybody is walking around with their &#8220;dog tags&#8221; outside their shirts. Or dress uniforms with improper ribbons or improper wear of a uniform. Come on guys there are books on this stuff. Read one! Then there are the hot women detectives in clothes so tight I can count the change in their pockets. Not that there are no attractive women in law enforcement, but if one of my subordinates came in with her cleavage and belly button showing she would be going home for a wardrobe change.
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10. Cover me I&#8217;m going in:*Nobody ever waits for back-up, sets up a perimeter or gets on the radio. It sucks to share the glory with some dumbass &#8220;uniform&#8221;. I&#8217;ll just go down into that basement with the serial killer in the &#8220;woman suit&#8221;, only *****&#8217;s would back out and call for back-up.I know, I know, its just entertainment, but it pisses me off&#8230; deal with it! Keep reading for my next installment. This is just me warming up.
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11. Tin Cans and Strings:* The woeful lack of realism with movie/television communications devices is reaching WTF?? proportions. First off there are these things known as frequencies and channels. Not all radios can communicate with each other simply because they are radios. So when you crawl into a tank to escape the zombie horde (Yes &#8220;Walking Dead&#8221; I&#8217;m talking to you), the dude on the roof top with a police portable radio isn&#8217;t going to be able to communicate with you. Convenient to move the story along, but flat out never gonna happen&#8230;even in a world where flesh eating zombies walk the earth.And then there is the good ole &#8220;watch me talk to my wrist&#8221; scene. This is where all of our heroes simply have to talk to their watchbands and they magically can communicate with each other. Now&#8230;I have actually used one of those wrist mikes operationally. It is a microphone and switch that is run through your sleeve and pinned to your cuff. The switch dangles in your palm AND there is an earpiece that runs up your neck to your ear so you can hear any reply. Most importantly, the whole affair is ATTACHED TO A FRIGGIN RADIO!!!What exactly is Mr. CIA transmitting with when he talks to his Rolex? Am I to believe that our FBI agents now have wristwatches that are full fledged radios that can transmit and receive? I&#8217;m pretty up on current tech&#8230;they don&#8217;t exist. Some sort of bluetooth device that connects to a radio/cellular system? Maybe, but how exactly is he hearing any reply? I never seem to see any of these &#8220;secret agents&#8221; wearing an earpiece&#8230;hell even a bluetooth earbud would give the scene at a scintilla of possibility.​


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## Tez3 (Jun 10, 2012)

It's fiction, if it was all accurate then everyone would know as much as we do!


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## Tames D (Jun 10, 2012)

You obviously don't understand ratings...


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## Sukerkin (Jun 10, 2012)

Aye Tez but I do have to agree with the "Oh for bleeps sake!" effect that Tgace describes.  I don't have his insight into police work but I get the same reaction when I watch historical or military drama's set in periods I know about ... my biggest pet hate is that "shing!" that every Hollywood sword makes when it is drawn ... it makes my teeth ache :lol:.

Oh and 'hero' mags too.  Those mags that just keep on giving ... right up until the angsty plot-point where one of the good guys we've gotten to know has to die ...


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## aedrasteia (Jun 10, 2012)

OP

good catch on the 10.  there's lots more.

wrong target for your mad.

of course they can find advisors. why would they listen to them?

you want a different audience, the one you think is interested in reality.

there are a few folks in that audience, but not enough eyeballs to pay $$
in the numbers that get the accountants all happy. 

Producers (first) and then scriptwriters are the people who generate what gets you PO'd,
not the directors. 

Directors work from the script and the producers call the shots.

If the director/scriptwriter argues -  "Hey,  thats not the way it happens in reality!"
 (take your pick from your list) - they get dumped.  Except for a handful of the ones who
can write their own ticket.  You maybe think the scriptwriters/directors don't know when its fantasy??
You maybe think they don't know how to call real experts on whatever p's you off ??
You think 99.9% of producers are interested ?

there are exceptions... a few.  people tell me 'the Wire' was one. 

Go to a movie or watch a tv show that really p's you off, w/an audience and then *watch the audience,*
not the screen. 

like what you see?  please do correct the hyped audience guys about what is and isn't 'real'.

come back and tell us how that worked out.

People like fantasy, especially when it looks just like their favorite version of 'reality'
and when they get to insert themselves into the hero - or the evil one or both at the same time.

yeah - friends in the 'industry', with scripts.


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## Steve (Jun 10, 2012)

Wasn't it mark twain who said, "never let the truth get in the way of a good story?"

I can forgive anything if the story is compelling and internally consistent.  It's called suspending disbelief and it's important when you watch or read fiction.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Tgace (Jun 10, 2012)

What does "fantasy" have to do with racking a Pistol 20 times in an episode? Or at least having a radio to speak into instead of a watch? A proper salute or a military/police uniform worn in an authentic manner? Its all stupid TV cliche that could easily be replaced with authentic weapon handling and equipment portrayal
....and take nothing from the story.

The "CSI in the stack", jurisdictional stuff sure. I can do a bit of suspension of disbelief. Id buy the "suspension of disbelief" excuse a bit more if people were not confusing fantasy with reality when it comes to real life police procedure. When juries start delivering  "reasonable doubt" verdicts because the police didn't deliver a CSI style whodoneit perhaps our entertainment producers should start thinking about realisim a bit.

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## Tames D (Jun 10, 2012)

Tgace said:


> What does "fantasy" have to do with racking a Pistol 20 times in an episode? Or at least having a radio to speak into instead of a watch? A proper salute or a military/police uniform worn in an authentic manner? Its all stupid TV cliche that could easily be replaced with authentic weapon handling and equipment portrayal
> ....and take nothing from the story.
> 
> The "CSI in the stack", jurisdictional stuff sure. I can do a bit of suspension of disbelief. Id buy the "suspension of disbelief" excuse a bit more if people were not confusing fantasy with reality when it comes to real life police procedure. When juries start delivering  "reasonable doubt" verdicts because the police didn't deliver a CSI style whodoneit perhaps our entertainment producers should start thinking about realisim a bit.
> ...



I think you're sensitive,as this is your profession,and I totally understand. But make no mistake, tv and film is make believe. It's not real. The production team is only concerned with ratings and profit, I say this as this is my profession.


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## jks9199 (Jun 10, 2012)

1, 2, 3, 8... My wife would tell you that I'm in 100% agreement.  "Let's chase a bad guy for 20 minutes, across who knows how many rooftops, firing who knows how many wild shots, and NOW that I've caught him, I'm finally going to rack one in..."  

I spent 5 years in a regional task force that often operated as a LOW RISK tac unit, meaning that our clientele demanded us to treat Records & Documents search warrants (amazing the process those seem to be issued with on TV, huh?  when they bother...) under low risk circumstances as high risk.  If it was truly high risk -- we called in a SWAT unit.   I can literally count the times out of easily a couple hundred search warrants where we went in with the real operators.  We did perimeter security for them more often -- but there were literally a handful of times when we actually made combined, coordinated entries with them.  When we did -- it was a very carefully planned op with defined roles for each team.  Usually in a screwy scenario...

Another thing that drives me nuts:  nobody gets time off for use of lethal force!  I shoot someone, I'm probably on the bench for a couple days at least.  As a matter of routine, not discipline.  Just time for the brass to figure things out.  I'm not going to be right back in the office, no matter how clean the shoot.

Hell, use of force is a whole 'nother ball of crap.  One shot kills, instantly, with a 40' explosive knockdown, from a .38 snub-nose, often fired from 75 yards or more, with pinpoint accuracy...


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## jks9199 (Jun 10, 2012)

Oh... and have they never bothered to look at a map, or do some basic research into the flora of a region.  Ain't a hell of a lot of palm trees around the DC area...  And you can't get from the Navy Yard in Anacostia to Norfolk in less than about 3 to 4 hours, except with a helicopter.  Hell, Navy Yard to Quantico MCB is a good hour under typical conditions...  (Yeah, that's aimed at the folks of *NCIS*... who apparently haven't considered that the real NCIS probably would do something wild & crazy like have agents assigned to The Crossroads of the Marine Corp and one of the largest naval bases in the world...)  Travel times and geography in some of these shows are beyond unreal...


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## Tgace (Jun 10, 2012)

So nonsensical weapon handling and inaccurate uniforms get better ratings?? I don't buy it. I can accept procedural fantasy, a la CSI and the hero acting like a SWAT jock....but the simple details like uniforms, radios and weapon use loose nothing with real world accuracy.

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## jks9199 (Jun 10, 2012)

Tgace said:


> So nonsensical weapon handling and inaccurate uniforms get better ratings?? I don't buy it. I can accept procedural fantasy, a la CSI and the hero acting like a SWAT jock....but the simple details like uniforms, radios and weapon use loose nothing with real world accuracy.
> 
> Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk




You ever notice where half the uniformed cops on TV shows are wearing their gear?  They've got stuff in all sorts of screwy positions...  I feel for the actors, since they can't sit down without have an uncomfortably intimate encounter with their radio or cuffs, or something else...


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## Tames D (Jun 10, 2012)

Perhaps the best advice I can give is to not watch tv and films... LOL. Might not get you so upset?


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## Tames D (Jun 10, 2012)

I've noticed a few procedural errors on behalf of law inforcement in "real life" over the years. That seems to me to be a little more important than how law inforcement is portrayed on tv.


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## Big Don (Jun 10, 2012)

Uh, you forgot to mention that it is rare for revolvers, yes, I'm old enough to have one, and remember them on TV..., rarely fire more than 6 rounds without a somewhat lengthy reloading...


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## Tgace (Jun 10, 2012)

Something that gets me on ABC's "Castle"...they call the female Captain of Detectives "Sir". As in "yes Sir/no Sir". W.T.F?


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## Tgace (Jun 10, 2012)

jks9199 said:


> Oh... and have they never bothered to look at a map, or do some basic research into the flora of a region.  Ain't a hell of a lot of palm trees around the DC area...  And you can't get from the Navy Yard in Anacostia to Norfolk in less than about 3 to 4 hours, except with a helicopter.  Hell, Navy Yard to Quantico MCB is a good hour under typical conditions...  (Yeah, that's aimed at the folks of *NCIS*... who apparently haven't considered that the real NCIS probably would do something wild & crazy like have agents assigned to The Crossroads of the Marine Corp and one of the largest naval bases in the world...)  Travel times and geography in some of these shows are beyond unreal...



Not to mention NCIS agents performing hostage rescue operations in the middle east and pulling sniper duty on CIA operations. 

....right.


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## Tgace (Jun 10, 2012)

jks9199 said:


> I spent 5 years in a regional task force that often operated as a LOW RISK tac unit, meaning that our clientele demanded us to treat Records & Documents search warrants (amazing the process those seem to be issued with on TV, huh?  when they bother...) under low risk circumstances as high risk.  If it was truly high risk -- we called in a SWAT unit.   I can literally count the times out of easily a couple hundred search warrants where we went in with the real operators.  We did perimeter security for them more often -- but there were literally a handful of times when we actually made combined, coordinated entries with them.  When we did -- it was a very carefully planned op with defined roles for each team.  Usually in a screwy scenario...



Yeah. Being a Narc and a SWAT officer I've done no-knocks in both capacities. I've seen/used non-SWAT officers for perimeter posts and I've been a perimeter post as a narcotics officer while another agencies team hit the door. The one thing I've never seen is a crime scene tech going through the door.


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## Tgace (Jun 10, 2012)

Tames D said:


> I've noticed a few procedural errors on behalf of law inforcement in "real life" over the years. That seems to me to be a little more important than how law inforcement is portrayed on tv.



What? A cop cant gripe about cop show's in a "Law Enforcement" sub-forum???


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## Tames D (Jun 10, 2012)

Tgace said:


> What? A cop cant gripe about cop show's in a "Law Enforcement" sub-forum???



Sure you can. Can I give my opinion, or is that not allowed?


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## Tgace (Jun 10, 2012)




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## Tgace (Jun 10, 2012)

Tames D said:


> Sure you can. Can I give my opinion, or is that not allowed?



Sure...what is it?


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## Bob Hubbard (Jun 10, 2012)

Great rant. More!   I'd read about the CSI stuff, but the other bits are new to me.


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## Tames D (Jun 10, 2012)

Tgace said:


> Sure...what is it?



The entertaiment industry certainly has it's faults. Law enforcement certainly has it's faults. If it bothers you so much, don't watch tv and movies. You have a choice.


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## Tgace (Jun 10, 2012)

Here's one you probably already know Bob. The magical one shot stop with a handgun. 

Everybody drops like a sack of @#$% when hit with pistol rounds on TV, when in real life they usually run around and act like they they were never hit..till they drop over, sometimes minutes later. Most cops in shootings think they are missing because the BG doesn't drop over dead "like on TV".

Conversely, there is a phenomenon where soldiers/cops have been known to die of survivable wounds because their brains were wired to give up because everybody knows that guys in the movies die when they get hit. Most modern training protocols wont allow officers to "die" in training. If you get hit you keep on fighting. Cops today are told that if you know you are shot you actually have a higher chance of surviving. It's when you keel over w/o knowing why that you are in trouble.


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## Tgace (Jun 10, 2012)

Tames D said:


> The entertaiment industry certainly has it's faults. Law enforcement certainly has it's faults. If it bothers you so much, don't watch tv and movies. You have a choice.



What if I *enjoy *complaining about the hollywood ********?


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## Bob Hubbard (Jun 10, 2012)

Mythbusters did a bit where they compared people in movies getting shot with actual real life hits. They pretty much busted all the Hollywood stuff if I remember right.


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## Tames D (Jun 10, 2012)

Tgace said:


> What if I *enjoy *complaining about the hollywood ********?



No problem. But I'm worried that I  might start to enjoy complainining about law enforcement... Might have to start a thread...


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## Tgace (Jun 10, 2012)

Tames D said:


> No problem. But I'm worried that I  might start to enjoy complainining about law enforcement... Might have to start a thread...




Except yours would be unoriginal. Cop bashers are a dime a dozen.


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## Bob Hubbard (Jun 10, 2012)

Just don't tell me Joe Friday isn't real.


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## Tgace (Jun 10, 2012)

http://www.cracked.com/article_18385_7-********-police-myths-everyone-believes-thanks-to-movies.html



> There has been a murder. While the regular cops are all wasting time talking about "witnesses," "motives" and "evidence," the CSI team walks in and gets **** ​_done_. Within seconds they find a single hair, scan it with a green laser and discover the identity of the killer, saving countless lives with their ingenious magical science. Hell, the CSI team will even pack up their guns and go arrest the guy!
> 
> Read more: 7 ******** Police Myths Everyone Believes (Thanks to Movies) | Cracked.com http://www.cracked.com/article_1838...-believes-thanks-to-movies.html#ixzz1xSEQ7sRm​



Priceless.


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## Tames D (Jun 10, 2012)

Tgace said:


> Except yours would be unoriginal. Cop bashers are a dime a dozen.



Trust me. You're not being oringinal either. I hear the same old song and dance about the film industry. It gets tiring. The last time I looked it wasn't mandatory to watch tv or pay money to see a movie at the theater.


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## Tgace (Jun 10, 2012)

Someones got their sensitive panties on.


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## Tgace (Jun 10, 2012)

Whats wrong with this picture? ....at least DeNiro's got **** right.


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## Tames D (Jun 10, 2012)

Tgace said:


> Someones got their sensitive panties on.



Wow. Who's got their sensitive panties on? Go back and read your OP.


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## Tgace (Jun 10, 2012)

You ever hear of the concept of using hyperbole as a writing tool? Do you think I'm actually going into convulsions when a TV character mishandles a pistol? Really? 

The fact remains...many in the entertainment industry fail to do their homework when it comes to LE/Mil/and weapons. Some shows like Southland, The Wire, Heat, Saving private Ryan, Band of Brothers, Black hawk down, Collateral etc do a fine job as entertainment with a passable realism quotient. 

There's "eh..its only a move" technical **** ups and then there is where the hell did they get that from depictions.


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## Bob Hubbard (Jun 10, 2012)

View attachment $939743_0545_1024x2000.jpg

Don't make me call The Rock.
:rofl:


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## Tgace (Jun 10, 2012)

Lol!!


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## blindsage (Jun 11, 2012)

Tgace said:


> Whats wrong with this picture? ....at least DeNiro's got **** right.


Statham needs a gun?

Actually the thing on police shows that always drive me nuts and they all do it, is when they see the guy their looking for and instead of walking up and talking to him or just grabbing him and arresting him before he sees them, they yell his name across a room or across the street aaannnnddddd voila- chase scene.


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## Tez3 (Jun 11, 2012)

Would you have them show the boring day to day admin and other stuff that has to be done leaving people to wonder why anyone would want the job or would you rather they thought everyday there was an exciting car chase and shoot out? :lol:

Much better to supsend belief and save the blood pressure. Time and money constraints stop things being authentic, people don't want 'real life' when they watch television and films, they watch to escape that so a hat not being worn properly or a salute done sloppily isn't noticed by the majority, they know that in 'real life' things are, hopefully, done well so it doesn't matter in fiction.


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## punisher73 (Jun 11, 2012)

I have sat in many court cases when I was assigned to our court transport division.  There were alot of cases where the Prosecuting Attorney had to do a lot of talking about the CSI effect and how that isn't real science on how crime labs work.  It is a frustrating thing when an attorney can cast doubt on no "forensic science" linking their client even though there is tons of other evidence that supports the charge and juries buy into it because all of the early CSI shows talked that it was "real police science".

I used to watch it in the early years, but then they went to fantasy land, even too much for my suspension of disbelief when they pulled a 20 year old fingerprint off a piece of exposed metal on a chimmey.


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## Sukerkin (Jun 11, 2012)

Tames D said:


> I hear the same old song and dance about the film industry. It gets tiring. The last time I looked it wasn't mandatory to watch tv or pay money to see a movie at the theater.



What's the matter, *Tames*?  You seem unreasonably grumpy about this.  You don't work in television drama by any chance? 

Let the fellow air his gripes for crying out loud; it's not manditory to read posts either you know .  If you disagree then that's fine but don't rob the fellow of his chance to let the steam out .

I happen to agree that those creating fiction should do what they can to make it that touch more 'real' but also agree that most people wouldn't notice.  I do empathise tho' that when it is a popular format (e.g. cop show) that some professionals, who actually work in that area of expertise, will have their enjoment marred by factual errors.


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## crushing (Jun 11, 2012)

Television is a great medium for the distribution of memes that support agendas.

Some recurring programming memes in TV law enforcement dramas-

Federal is good. Local is inept at best, but often just plain corrupt.
Amendment II is only for nutjobs that think the BOR applies to the people and defines the limitations on government.
Amendment IV is only for people with something to hide, good people don't ask to see a warrant.
Trains good, planes bad.

It's about ratings, right?   People don't want to see a more realistic portrayal of law enforcement, that's why the show Cops never gained any popularity.


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## Tez3 (Jun 11, 2012)

crushing said:


> Television is a great medium for the distribution of memes that support agendas.
> 
> Some recurring programming memes in TV law enforcement dramas-
> 
> ...



Not sure about the trains good, planes bad one, there's been a fair few train disaster films made.


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## Paloma (Jun 11, 2012)

I can sympathize, but from a different point of view. I'm currently working toward becoming one of those "dweebs from the crime lab", and shows like CSI and Bones don't have our stuff right either.
On the bright side, hundreds of young people are going to be exposed to this, and want to go into forensic science, which will increase demand for courses in universities, and thus, more job opportunities for me in a couple years. Three cheers for the silver lining?


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## Steve (Jun 11, 2012)

I'm not sure my original post came through as intended.  I wasn't criticizing the OP's rant, but I was on an ipad, and so my post was a little short and may have come off as smart alecky.  I'm sure the items were all accurate, and I'm no different from the OP.  I get frustrated when I notice certain things, too.  

What I'd like to point out is that storytelling is an art, and to tell a story the director, producer and screenwriter need to cut to the chase.  Showing a detailed, accurate account of a SWAT team handling a situation might be compelling to a SWAT team member.  But it's missing a lot of things that move the story forward.  TV shows in particular HAVE to develop a shorthand with their audience in order to have a coherent story unfold in 40 minutes, for a 60 minute show, or 20 minutes for a 30 minute show.  That's not a lot of time.  That means that the audience needs to know certain things within minutes of the open, and by the first commercial break, they HAVE to have made some progress with the plot. 

As such, again, particularly in TV, but also often seen in genre films, the screen writers will take advantage of the prevailing shorthand (aka the cliches you guys notice).  Yeah, they're there.  The screen writers probably DO know that most of them are bogus, but ultimately, they could spend 10 minutes of broadcast time basically training the audience about what an ACTUAL SWAT team in action is doing, or they can spend one minute allowing the audience to fill in the blanks based on common, popular, pre-established storytelling conventions.  

Another common trick for writers is to combine people or to split up one person into several.  In other words, on a real crime scene you might have one guy who typically does 8 things, but they need to show that ALL of those 8 things are happening at once, so they'll split it up.  Or, conversely, if several tasks are typically done by people in 8 different departments, they might make one character who does it all... jack of all trades sort of thing.  This can take 8 uninteresting secondary characters and turn him or her into one multi-faceted, interesting main character.  

Once again, the main point of all video, whether it's fiction or non-fiction, is to tell a story.  And real world accuracy is only important to the story if it is intrinsically part of the story.  

Now, there is a point where over use of cliches becomes lazy storytelling, and I think those guys should be raked over the coals! 

Just my two cents.


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## Tgace (Jun 11, 2012)

The thing I tell college kids about forensics degrees is that, in our part of the country, a degree in forensics will get you a job in a lab....not a job were you carry a gun and/or visit crime scenes.

CSI's here are cops assigned to evidence collection teams. You have to become an LEO and work your way into the unit. The majority of them have no degree in forensics....they get their training once assigned.

YMMV in your part of the nation....but here a forensic degree may get you a job in the county lab swabbing for DNA or identifying drugs.

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## Tgace (Jun 11, 2012)

Playing fast and loose with things like job assignments and procedure is one thing..I agree Steve, "CSI" as a show would suck if shown authentically. BUT simple things like proper salutes, uniforms, gun handling, etc is an easy thing to do realisally. Take my first point, WHY do so many in the entertainment industry stick to that stupid "racking meme"? We carry our pistols loaded. If they want to show the officers as "preparing for action" they can show a chamber check (even then thats a rarity but at least its realistic). Keeping your finger off of the trigger like that movie poster? Stupid simple....

There are many things they could do to be more authentic that take nothing from the story and add nothing to expense. I think its either laziness or ignorance. Like I said upthread..there ARE some shows who are pretty authentic (at least not "stupid inaccurate")..and they stand out because of it.


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## jks9199 (Jun 11, 2012)

Tgace said:


> The thing I tell college kids about forensics degrees is that, in our part of the country, a degree in forensics will get you a job in a lab....not a job were you carry a gun and/or visit crime scenes.
> 
> CSI's here are cops assigned to evidence collection teams. You have to become an LEO and work your way into the unit. The majority of them have no degree in forensics....they get their training once assigned.
> 
> ...


Same way at most of the agencies I know of here in Virginia.  Crime scene work is done by cops with specialized training; some of the larger agencies have standing, dedicated units, but many agencies just use officers who have received specialized training.  I don't know of too many places with civilian crime scene specialists...  The closest I can think of are the ME's investigators -- and they require a lot of specialized training...


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## Steve (Jun 11, 2012)

Tgace said:


> Playing fast and loose with things like job assignments and procedure is one thing..I agree Steve, "CSI" as a show would suck if shown authentically. BUT simple things like proper salutes, uniforms, gun handling, etc is an easy thing to do realisally. Take my first point, WHY do so many in the entertainment industry stick to that stupid "racking meme"? We carry our pistols loaded. If they want to show the officers as "preparing for action" they can show a chamber check (even then thats a rarity but at least its realistic). Keeping your finger off of the trigger like that movie poster? Stupid simple....
> 
> There are many things they could do to be more authentic that take nothing from the story and add nothing to expense. I think its either laziness or ignorance. Like I said upthread..there ARE some shows who are pretty authentic..and they stand out because of it.


Well, in some cases, it's for dramatic effect.  Racking the weapon is just dramatic and looks cool.  It's like a flourish with a sword or a kip up in a martial arts fight.  Just a little addition for dramatic effect.

Poor salutes and sloppy costuming are lame.  

But in your list of shows, most were feature length films which are about twice as long as the typical 60 minute TV script.  They also have much larger budgets for everything from costume to sound editing to talent.  The Wire is an HBO show, and they also have larger budgets and are recorded/edited much more like a feature film and with a bigger budget than a network TV show.  Not excuses.  Just sharing my perspective.  

The shows you guys are hitting the most are weekly, network tv shows like Bones, Castle and CSI.  They're built around the characters and they have to fit certain elements into every single episode on a budget that makes the network happy.  

Ultimately, I'm not saying anyone's wrong or right.  You're perfectly entitled to your opinions.  Just sharing an alternative point of view.


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## Tgace (Jun 11, 2012)

And then there's the "taser knockout"..you know, where someone zapped by the taser is knocked out for 10 minutes.

Do people really still think that?

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## jks9199 (Jun 11, 2012)

Apparently. Kinda scary huh.

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## Tgace (Jun 13, 2012)

Steve said:


> Well, in some cases, it's for dramatic effect.  Racking the weapon is just dramatic and looks cool.  It's like a flourish with a sword or a kip up in a martial arts fight.  Just a little addition for dramatic effect.
> 
> Poor salutes and sloppy costuming are lame.
> 
> ...



Well...if you have to rely on inaccurate and pointless weapon manipulation to have "drama" then you need a better script writer. What's the cost of teaching an actor how to properly grip a handgun? And how much drama do you loose by not having your hero cock a pistol with no hammer?

And just because its not a major motion picture is no excuse IMO...they have a budget for guns, costumes and what else...this is a matter of a handling the equipment you already have. What is the big hurdle? 

I often wonder if these entertainment producers actually know anything about the topic? Do they know that the gun the character carries has no safety to forget about? Are these intentional? What is lost by being accurate in your shows weapon handling? 


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## Bob Hubbard (Jun 13, 2012)

Tom, how many 'average people' understand things like weapons without safeties?  Hell, I challenge the average person to tell the difference between a 9mm and a 45.  They just aren't that knowledgeable.

Then there's the discussion I had a few weeks back, about how a reenactor was working on his uniform and wanted to be sure he had all the parts historically correct. He was looking up significant events in a timeline to be certain that everything right down to the stiching was period-correct.

Oh, did I forget to mention....he was going to a convention as a Jaffa from Stargate.

Realism in tv shows depends on your perspective.  You know guns. 

Friend of mine is a tank nut.  You want to know something about tanks, he knows them. Cold.  He's so geeky he'll tell you the name of the guy who put the last nut on the last tiger during WW2.
Went on a huge tear about how the historic inaccuracies in Patton just ruined the film for him....little things like using US tanks as German ones, cars that were a few years 'too soon', etc.
I just enjoyed the movie enough to buy it on vhs, dvd and BR.  

Sometimes, we 'know too much' I think.  Then we can't appreciate Hero because we're looking for the wires too hard.

namaste.


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## Tgace (Jun 13, 2012)

True..of course Im continuing this conversation because the topic interests me. 

Then again Bob there is an aspect of drama and authenticity that is added when your characters are manipulating their props correctly. There's a weekly TV show called Southland that is noted for its accuracy (IMO) and then there are your other weekly shows that go "rack happy" with every gun they draw. Id wager that your most weapon ignorant viewer would notice something "different" about the way the actors handle their props. I posit that even people who are ignorant of weaponcraft can sense when a character appears to REALLY know what he/she is doing. IMO its an easy fix that can do nothing but add to the production at minimal expense.


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## Tgace (Jun 13, 2012)

Here's some more: 

-Heroes displaying weapons as threats 
-Walking up and putting a gun right in someone's face.
-Tumbling with a loaded weapon...diving into a room, forward rolls into cover (when they even bother with cover) etc.
-10 minute gunfights with nobody but some exploding cars getting hit.
-Automatic fire making a straight path of holes across a wall 
-Full auto used to mow down villains standing in a neat row 
-Bullet strikes causing someone to shake around violently like they were having a seizure.
-The shotgun blast that makes people fly 20' backwards
-The magnum handgun that makes people fly 
-The 9mm pistol that makes people fly 
-The single shot that causes a car to explode 
-The shot that causes a helicopter to explode 
-People with really big guns will outshoot everyone else... only because they have the really big gun. These same people are the ones who don't need to look for cover, either. 
-An investigator who describes a roomful of jumbled victims riddled with bullets as an "execution style" murder. 
-Silencers that make that "pfft-pffft!" sound.
-Silencers on a revolver 
-A professional "sniper" who prefers to shoot standing up.


:shooter:


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## aedrasteia (Jun 13, 2012)

Tgace said:


> Here's some more:
> 
> -Heroes displaying weapons as threats
> -Walking up and putting a gun right in someone's face.
> ...



Tgace,

good list.

now, go to the movie or watch the show where all these happen and don't watch the screen -  *watch the audience.

*And after, ask a couple of people from the audience if they noticed x or y or z or any of those things 
that piss you off.  Just ask if they noticed anything.

Then, explain why those actions are bogus. Be sure to point out all the sloppy, stupid mistakes, especially the 
'exciting' ones that really irritate you  (hint - anything listed that involves _exploding). _Ask guys what
they love about 'action' movies. specifically.No sarcasm here. I've done this and learned lots about what audiences really want.

Producers watch test audiences and real overnight attendance numbers. 
Oh, and $ from distribution rights, and secondary sales, streaming and other $$ sources.
'Mistakes' exageration, hype, falsification doesn't cost them $,  it makes $.  Lots of $$

Producers love Bob H: 
_"Went on a huge tear about how the historic inaccuracies in Patton just ruined the film for him....little things like using US tanks as German ones, cars that were a few years 'too soon', etc. *I just enjoyed the movie enough to buy it on vhs, dvd and BR. 
*
_OP:  "I'd wager that your most weapon ignorant viewer would notice something "different" about the way the actors handle their props. I posit that even people who are ignorant of weaponcraft can sense when a character appears to REALLY know what he/she is doing."  

?? in numbers of audience members sufficient to cause script and production changes? not even close.
Script and production research/art direction/production details/continuity especially on a big production is an
enormous expense.

I sympathize - there are films/tv that drive me crazy too. but audiences vote with their $$.
Producers and companies know $$. 

your list includes almost everything the men in my extended family (ages 16 - 45) love.
Nope, they don't care if its wrong. they just want it to be cool. 
best if it explodes. Loudly.

with respect,


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## jks9199 (Jun 14, 2012)

Part of the problem with some of that unreality is that shapes perceptions.  Thanks to all the tv car crashes where cars explode into flames every time, people are yanked out of cars by well meaning passers-by, with no regard for the significant possibility of injury.  The truth?  Cars rarely explode into flame in reality, and, generally, the safest place to leave an injured person after a crash is in the car, so that the medics can assess how to remove them safely.

Yeah, a lot of it's fun stuff... and I don't have anything against reasonable unreality.  OK, you're lead crew has to be the ones to catch the bad guys, to go in with the SWAT unit, and so on.  Cool.  But to rack the gun when it should already have a round chambered?  Or to have completely unrealistic responses to being shot or punched (like flying back 40 feet)...  Why?  Let solid basic stuff like gun handling create a better base for your unrealism.


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## Bob Hubbard (Jun 14, 2012)

There was an episode of Dr. Who where a car was going to explode. Epic panic ensued, the car is stopped, the characters make a mad dash and dive into a ditch as the car goes pop.  Except that's all it did, pop. As in backfire. Not brew up.  It was the producers doing a little dig to the unrealistic car explosions in other shows.


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## Supra Vijai (Jun 14, 2012)

jks9199 said:


> Part of the problem with some of that unreality is that shapes perceptions.  Thanks to all the tv car crashes where cars explode into flames every time, people are yanked out of cars by well meaning passers-by, with no regard for the significant possibility of injury.  The truth?  Cars rarely explode into flame in reality...



On a slightly less serious note, this just made me remember the new 21 Jump St remake. During one particular car chase sequence, the bad guys are sent in a shower of sparks into fuel tankers (that have been shot and fuel is spilling out on the road) - no explosion. Same thing with another similar situation and then finally, a biker slides under a truck full of chickens and THAT explodes. Mind you, the entire film was full of parodies of said Hollywood cliche's such as the "angry black captain".


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## Tgace (Jun 14, 2012)

jks9199 said:


> Part of the problem with some of that unreality is that shapes perceptions.  Thanks to all the tv car crashes where cars explode into flames every time, people are yanked out of cars by well meaning passers-by, with no regard for the significant possibility of injury.  The truth?  Cars rarely explode into flame in reality, and, generally, the safest place to leave an injured person after a crash is in the car, so that the medics can assess how to remove them safely.
> 
> Yeah, a lot of it's fun stuff... and I don't have anything against reasonable unreality.  OK, you're lead crew has to be the ones to catch the bad guys, to go in with the SWAT unit, and so on.  Cool.  But to rack the gun when it should already have a round chambered?  Or to have completely unrealistic responses to being shot or punched (like flying back 40 feet)...  Why?  Let solid basic stuff like gun handling create a better base for your unrealism.



This.

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## aedrasteia (Jun 14, 2012)

jks9199 said:


> Part of the problem with some of that unreality is that shapes perceptions.  Thanks to all the tv car crashes where cars explode into flames every time, people are yanked out of cars by well meaning passers-by, with no regard for the significant possibility of injury.  The truth?  Cars rarely explode into flame in reality, and, generally, the safest place to leave an injured person after a crash is in the car, so that the medics can assess how to remove them safely.



thanks jks and Bingo!

yep - "unreality (in language and images) shapes perception". and at the same time that hyper-exagerated
distorted "un-reality" excites people.   This realization (about excitement and exageration) begins most basic
 studies of visual media and media criticism - its not liberal or conservative - its neurological. you know, the stuff some MT posters really hate here  - it gets all bolloxed up with liberal/conserv. crap.

I have advanced first-aid, CPR, first-responder training and i've been present for car accidents, 
collapses (reasons unknown), gunshots, heat-stroke, injuries and troubles of many kinds. 
The single most significant part of my training??  How to prevent/stop/reverse ignorant actions
from well-intentioned by-standers with no training and much tv/movie watching... 

most helpful *?  *the* MA training* and good training in calm communications, active listening, assertive
speech, command presence:

"No sir, please don't move him, his thighbone is damaged, his elbow is dislocated and he may
have a closed head injury, if he is lifted he will be in worse danger (motorcycle accident).  Remove your
hands and step away, NOW."   Repeat, remove  'please', stand up for F2F, add ' i know you want to help. 
so could you you look out for and guide the EMT/police ??'  

Luckily I got training from some very smart, very tough police women, red cross trainers and former military
guys turned EMTs.   Dealing with injured people, kids, families, passers-by - thats the stuff the experts helped me learn. And the 'ordinary' people think they know stuff they don't know - yeah, cause they've watched 'House' or cop shows or CSI.

yes, tv, movies and video games rule because they all work on the non-conscious absorption of 
whatever excites those neuro-synapses.  Its not pretty.
sigh...


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## Buka (Jun 14, 2012)

When I watch a film, I would like to be entertained. (Unless it's a documentary, which is entertainment of a different sort) But even if it's wild, mindless action film with a cool hero and pretty girls, I want a quality production. If I want reality, I'll go to work, go to the gym, or ask my wife what I just did wrong.


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## Tgace (Jun 15, 2012)

While watching "Falling Skies" the other day....why is it that the characters carrying M4 carbines with optics never bring the weapon to shoulder and look through the sights? All of them spray and pray from under their armpits....its so prevalent I have to assume they are being directed to do it.

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## Tgace (Jun 18, 2012)

I thought that this new show "Longmire" was going to be good
...so far its the worst of the bunch.

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## Tgace (Jun 21, 2012)




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## billc (Jun 23, 2012)

These may have been mentioned...

When the police types see the suspect a block away...and then yell "Stop, Police!"  giving him a head start that would be impossible to overcome.

When they realize the killer is at a specific location and they roll out to get there...but don't call for the local patrol unit, who is already on duty and in the area anyway, to get to the scene first, since they are closer and are also armed with guns to stop the killer.

Yeah, longmire looks too old, cried too much in the first episode and it wasn't that interesting.  Since the success of "Justified," now every network will probably put out a country and western cop drama.  I think "Justified," had a lot of potential but the writing is just weak and the main character, one of the best in concept on t.v. today, just isn't used well at all.


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## Tgace (Jun 23, 2012)

Yeah after season one...which I thoght was OK....Justified lost my interest.

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