# Question



## GeorgeWOE (Aug 20, 2012)

Does any of you know how to prove to somebody that Ki/Chi exist?


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## oaktree (Aug 20, 2012)

First you need to understand Chinese language.
 The hanzi or Chinese character for qi
Can mean many things depending on context.
The best translation as a catch all term is
Energy. It does not mean any mystic energy
Unless you are talking about it in a religious setting
like liang qi. Qi can also mean gas,anger again depends
on context. So trying to prove what can not be proven
Like mysterious energy no and thats not what qi
means anymore than religious pseudo science.
But if we are going to translate into English
then look up the word in a hanzi dictionary and
You can easily see everything that translates
Into English exist and no where does it
Translate as mysterious energy.

So if you are trying to prove a nonexistent energy
As qi you can't. If you want to prove how the Chinese
translate our English words you will easily prove it.


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## GeorgeWOE (Aug 20, 2012)

Thanks for the info but maybe I didn't make a clear question about what I wanted to learn.

Before I do the full question let me explain my point of view.I'm a practitioner on Qi Gong for 5 years now.I'm trying to combine its principle in combat(the Wing chun that I do for 2 years) and I realized that when I used Ki/Chi I had better results on what I was doing like when I was punching a punch bag double effect with Ki/Chi on it and more like that.

So my question is:Is all this that I do just an illusion that I made to myself?
And if its not how do I prove it to somebody else?Is there a method that can be done for that?


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## oaktree (Aug 20, 2012)

First I am not sure what context you are using Qi in. Usually in conversations involving the word it can mean different things. I think you are confusing the term Qi and Yi and fa jin. Qi &#27668; = energy(depending on context or added words may mean something else like xin qi &#24515;&#27668;= intention or ambition.) Yi &#24847;means like intent or thought but differs from emotional thought &#24515;. Fa jin &#21457;&#21170;meaning to release strength or emit strength/energy. There is a saying in Chinese "Yi Yi Yin Qi &#20197;&#24847;&#24341;&#27668;which means the Yi leads the Qi, or in English your focus is where your energy will be release fa jin &#21457;&#21170; or energy released. You are going to hit harder if you focus more compared to looking in another direction and just throwing your arm out.

To answer your question is it all an illusion that you made yourself?  I don't know what was the question alluding to you having an illusion?
  I told you how to prove the term Qi to someone. Go get a Hanzi dictionary look up the word Qi and then show it to the person and see if he agrees on what 
the English translation is. There is no mystical energy except if you are refering to things in a religious context. 


Again, nothing esoteric about it just Chinese terms used to describe the same thing found in western boxing.


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## WC_lun (Aug 20, 2012)

If your Wing Chun instructor cannot do a simple excercise for you to feel the chi, in turn giving you the ability to show others, then it is not part of the training regimen of the Wing Chun you are learning.  That isn't good or bad, it is just the way that system trains.  So the best idea is to train the way your instructor wants you to and do not get distracted by other means of training...or worse distract your fellow students.

In the past when I've had  students start asking questions like you are, I would hit them.  I'd then tell them there are obviously skills and training they need to prioritise above the playing with chi, like those allowing you not to be hit.


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## GeorgeWOE (Aug 21, 2012)

Thank you both of you for covering some parts of it.But again I'm stuck to the point which is: how to demonstrate that thing to someone?What i mean is that a lot of people ask me about the stuff that I do.Like the meditations,the slow movements,the ki/chi balls etc. and they call me crazy and stuff like that.They are stuck to this thing Dragonball=Ki.That is why I'm asking how to demonstrate it to someone in order to make them to get off from that point of view...

Oh by the way im doing wing chun the Ip Chun style and I'm level 2(We count like that not with the belts)I'm not in a gym.I was having a private teacher.So yeah i haven't gone pretty far...:lookie:


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## oaktree (Aug 21, 2012)

To see qi.
1.get hanzi dictionary
2.turn to page with hanzi for qi &#27683;
3.show hanzi to friend with English translation. 
4.go cook rice.
5.show friend hanzi for rice &#31859;
6.as rice starts to cook show hanzi for steam &#27668;
7.show friend qi hanzi again and notice both
Have rice hanzi and steam hanzi.
There you go you have just proven qi as
The original context with the hanzi.
If your friend is not satisfied ask him
To explain anger, show him the hanzi explain
in this context qi is used as the Chinese translation.
In the end having debates about qi with 
People who dont or refuse to understand
Hanzi or the words in context are not
Worth engaging in discussion I rarely discuss
topics like this anymore even more so on martial talk.


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## rickster (Aug 21, 2012)

Ki/Qi
^^^^         does exist 
(right there)


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## shesulsa (Aug 21, 2012)

I think you have to let go of working so hard to prove Chi exists. Some are sensitive to higher vibrations and others are not - you may or may not be able to change that but if you could you certainly couldn't do so without their permission. You can try to demonstrate to them a technique application without chi movement and then again with chi movement ... but then if they can't or won't then it just ain't gonna happen.

I have an atheist student who stepped into my dojang one night and remarked how different the energy inside was than usual - and to be certain it *was.* He revealed in later discussions that he doesn't believe there is any energy exchanged between people or living things. I posed the question to him that since we've been able to prove that energy exists and that we are energetic beings, and that all organisms on earth are also likely biologically energetic, could that energy not have evolved through us and all life and hence have gained some kind of consciousness in and of itself and perhaps THIS is "God" or "universal energy".  

His reply? "If you believe in the theory of evolution then you could believe that."  

But ... he does believe in the theory of evolution ... and apparently senses energetic changes in nearby familiar areas.

So either he's in denial ... or he's a liar.  I don't really care which one ... I just pray for the enlightenment of the world - including judgemental religious zealots.

All love and empowerment to you and yours.


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## fangjian (Aug 22, 2012)

shesulsa said:


> I have an atheist student who stepped into my dojang one night and remarked how different the energy inside was than usual - and to be certain it was. He revealed in later discussions that he doesn't believe there is any energy exchanged between people or living things.



 Since the topic is 'qi', I am assuming the kind of 'energy' they're talking about is the type of ' sending some kind of energy to another without coming in physical contact', like the whole 'knock someone over from 5 feet away using your qi'. There's no reason to believe that this is possible. 



> I posed the question to him that since we've been able to prove that energy exists and that we are energetic beings, and that all organisms on earth are also likely biologically energetic, could that energy not have evolved through us and all life and hence have gained some kind of consciousness in and of itself and perhaps THIS is "God" or "universal energy".
> 
> His reply? "If you believe in the theory of evolution then you could believe that."
> 
> ...



From your response, you are suggesting that he's in denial of something. In denial of what 'specifically'?


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## Cyriacus (Aug 22, 2012)

I dont do CMA, but I do know that with a... How shall We say, 'focused' mindset, be it frustration or excitement, I can hit stuff harder. You can call that whatever you want to.
The question here is, why do You need them to come around to Your point of view? They dont have to believe in it with You. Just salute them for their successful Training Methods, and ask them to salute You for Yours. Train and let train.


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## Xue Sheng (Aug 22, 2012)

Strong Qi your healthy
Weak Qi your sick
No Qi your dead

Don't over analyze it

nuff said


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## mook jong man (Aug 22, 2012)

GeorgeWOE said:


> Thank you both of you for covering some parts of it.But again I'm stuck to the point which is: how to demonstrate that thing to someone?What i mean is that a lot of people ask me about the stuff that I do.Like the meditations,the slow movements,the ki/chi balls etc. and they call me crazy and stuff like that.They are stuck to this thing Dragonball=Ki.That is why I'm asking how to demonstrate it to someone in order to make them to get off from that point of view...
> 
> Oh by the way im doing wing chun the Ip Chun style and I'm level 2(We count like that not with the belts)I'm not in a gym.I was having a private teacher.So yeah i haven't gone pretty far...:lookie:



Tell your friends to stop watching cartoons.
How's your short range striking power?, probably not too flash after only two years I suspect.

Get one of your mates to hold a phonebook over his chest , you get into your stance and tell him your going to do a 1 inch palm strike on him.
Might be an idea to ask him if he has any heart problems first just to be on the safe side.
Now back to your demo.

Unbeknownst to him your going to cheat a bit and pivot your whole body 45 degrees as you strike forward with your palm strike , remember your strike and the pivot starts at the same time.

After he bounces off the wall and gets up off the floor , you can tell him there's your chi right there fella.
To your mates , who to be honest don't sound like real bright sparks , well they will probably think it is chi.
But it has more to do with having a decent stance and coordinating all the force vectors properly than anything else.


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## Xue Sheng (Aug 22, 2012)

mook jong man said:


> Get one of your mates to hold a phonebook over his chest , you get into your stance and tell him your going to do a 1 inch palm strike on him.



Phone book...pfhht....I was in a Jun Fan class last week that did a similar thing...without the phone book....and I have the bruises on my chest to prove it too..... on second thought....next time I'm bringing a phone book to class :uhyeah:

Truthfully we were not doing full power and it was more of a fast finger jab to to the chest to work on speed while getting hit as well..... but I do still have the bruises.


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## mook jong man (Aug 22, 2012)

Xue Sheng said:


> Phone book...pfhht....I was in a Jun Fan class last week that did a similar thing...without the phone book....and I have the bruises on my chest to prove it too..... on second thought....next time I'm bringing a phone book to class :uhyeah:
> 
> Truthfully we were not doing full power and it was more of a fast finger jab to to the chest to work on speed while getting hit as well..... but I do still have the bruises.



It's somewhat of a tradition in Wing Chun to use a phone book to demo the one inch punch.
A thick one with plenty of pages seems to spread the force out nicely and stops it from fully penetrating , but still lets enough through for the intended victim to feel the jolt.

Now I come to think of it , maybe people wouldn't have much use for phone books these days with all the smart phones and that around.


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## Xue Sheng (Aug 22, 2012)

mook jong man said:


> It's somewhat of a tradition in Wing Chun to use a phone book to demo the one inch punch.
> A thick one with plenty of pages seems to spread the force out nicely and stops it from fully penetrating , but still lets enough through for the intended victim to feel the jolt.
> 
> Now I come to think of it , maybe people wouldn't have much use for phone books these days with all the smart phones and that around.



Yeah but smart phones are not as good at stopping a punch


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## mook jong man (Aug 22, 2012)

Xue Sheng said:


> Yeah but smart phones are not as good at stopping a punch



Give em time mate , somebody will probably come up with an app for that. :lol:


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## GeorgeWOE (Aug 23, 2012)

Thank you all again for answering this "weird" question of mine.
Since I see that a lot of you are Ki/Chi/Qi users and teahers to it can you tell me 
if someone trains on it what will he learn(like an ability or a technique or even better health)?
And also if you know can you tell me what styles of it are out there that are being trained?(like an aggresive style for attacks or a peacefull/meditation style)

Thanks again


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## oaktree (Aug 23, 2012)

Hi George you asked:


> if someone trains on it what will he learn(like an ability or a technique or even better health)


 You said:


> I'm a practitioner on Qi Gong for 5 years now.



5years should be enough to know enough Qigong to know what it is about and what it does and can do. 5years should be enough time to have a novice level of understanding. 



> also if you know can you tell me what styles of it are out there that  are being trained?(like an aggresive style for attacks or a  peacefull/meditation style)


There are over thousands of Qigong styles. There are alot of varations of the same one too.  You can try to look into Xingyiquan maybe that is a martial art you are looking for as far as aggressive and deals with Qigong.


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## Cyriacus (Aug 23, 2012)

GeorgeWOE said:


> Since I see that a lot of you are Ki/Chi/Qi users and teahers to it can you tell me
> if someone trains on it what will he learn(like an ability or a technique or even better health)?


Whatever you want to learn from it.


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## GeorgeWOE (Aug 23, 2012)

Hello oaktree
Yes you are right about what I said.The reason I'm asking is because i started this alone and there is no ending to this "journey" with Qi Gong and the book I have doesn't say anything about reaching points only 
movements(you know the building of the spiritual bridge and etc.).That is why I'm curious about it...


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## oaktree (Aug 23, 2012)

Books can only take you so far then you need a teacher.
A teacher can only take you so far the rest is up to you.
What book are you learning from?


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## GeorgeWOE (Aug 23, 2012)

The one I have finished is the book named Qi gong by Clark Angus and The Empty Force(i don't remember who wrote it :/ )...


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## oaktree (Aug 23, 2012)

Clark seems like average teacher no more no less.
 Look to jwing Ming Yang's writings they are written
for the more serious student they. Not how to do
Books but written as maps to help you
Understand things. As you progress things
become more concepts and theory over external movement mimics.


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## GeorgeWOE (Aug 24, 2012)

http://ymaa.com/

^^^^^^^^^^^This guy?


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## fangjian (Aug 24, 2012)

GeorgeWOE said:


> http://ymaa.com/
> 
> ^^^^^^^^^^^This guy?


Yes


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## GeorgeWOE (Aug 24, 2012)

Thank you.Because he has made a lot of books which one do you suggest?


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## Xue Sheng (Aug 24, 2012)

GeorgeWOE said:


> Thank you.Because he has made a lot of books which one do you suggest?



Start here


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## GeorgeWOE (Aug 24, 2012)

Do you know what part it covers because i have done the building of the Bridge and i don't want to do it again... :-/


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## Xue Sheng (Aug 24, 2012)

Scroll down to see the contents ot Dr Yang's book

Click here


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