# At what point would you be forced to fight?



## Tony (Feb 19, 2004)

I know there are many people who would punch another person senseless if a negative comment was made about their mother or even what they were wearing! Some people simply enjoy getting into fights to prove their manhood!
Other guys don't like their girlfriends being chatted up by other guys and will immediately lash out! Some Road rage incidents have resulted in brawls and even murders!
So what I wanted to know was would anyone fight for minor things like being called gay or even someone pushing in front of them in a line somewhere?
Being a placid guy I have never resorted to acting physically when I have been insulted but I would like to think if I was in danger that I could defend myself to the best of my abilities!
I have a friend who is very highly strung, quick tempered and the fact he has started Taekwondo is a worry! I don't think he has grasped the true lessons of Martial Arts. I mean he will get very confrontational if someone is looking at him funny, or if someone makes a rude comment about what he is wearing!
But there are times when I think I should have reacted but didn't because I was scared of the consequences. One of my work colleagues had made a remark about me and I think he must have thought I hadn't heard what he said as I was leaving the room, but I did! It made me really angry and if I had reacted on my impulses he would might have been limping and I would have lost my job! So I guess its a good thing I didn't!
So I would be interested in your views, when would you use your skills other then for self defence?


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## 7starmantis (Feb 19, 2004)

My simple answer is never. You said when would you use your skill other than self defense? Never. Ok, let me rephrase that, self defense or the defense of someone else. Thats the only time I would fight.

7sm


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## OUMoose (Feb 19, 2004)

At least in my mind, I feel I've moved past the point of picking fights just to prove something.  Now if my family were involved, you can bet anything the aggressor would have something to think about.

Most of my friends I think can hold their own, but I would help them if they ever got in trouble.  But as I tell all of them, if they pick the fight for something stupid, I'm going to let them get smacked around for a bit before jumping in to break things up.  Kind of a reality check.  hehe...


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## Tony (Feb 19, 2004)

Well I am proud to say I have not been in any fights since I was 17 and I am 26 now, but I think that situation couldn't be merited as a fight although I was defending myself! I am of the opinion that if I can walk away I will!
But if I have no other option then I must use some kind of force to escape!
I won't even retaliate if my mother is being insulted or even my friends! But I won't retaliate verbally either! I wonder how the old Masters would have dealt with this!
I have one friend who would get in to a fight for silly reasons and I don't think I could justify defending him because he has a choice but I think all too often he makes the wrong choice! It is fortunate he gets into these altercations when I'm not there because in all honesty I don't know what I would do! I remember one time me him and my other friend who happens to be just as placid as I am were just leaving a Nightclub! We were getting into my friend's car, when these silly immature young guys were beeping their horn at us and other people for no apparent reason. My friend who was irritated by this wanted me and my other friend to help him but we both refused and he wasn't too happy about it! But I'm glad because we averted a potential violent confrontation. For a lot of people it doesn't take much to fuel their anger to a point of violence and this coupled with Martial Arts training is a concern!

I try to avoid pubs and other places where there is reputation for violence! My two friends go to this pub in my home town on a friday or saturday night! They have tried to get me to go with them but I prefer not to because of its reputation! My friend was rather confused that for someone who has been practicing Martial Arts all these years I have "no bottle" ( in other words courage when it comes to fighting!) but I think its perfectly reasonable to want to avoid violence and to try and settle disputes peacefully which is what all goo Martial Artists should do! Because fighting is only a small part of Martial arts. It should be moulding us into better people having respect and honour!


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## OUMoose (Feb 19, 2004)

No bottle?  hehe.  That's somewhat amusing.  

One of my teachers said it best I think.  "No one wins a fight, because as soon as it starts, you've all already lost... and I don't like to lose..."


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## Cruentus (Feb 19, 2004)

No one can "force" me to do anything. It would be my obligation to use physical force in defense of myself, a loved one, or someone who is weaker and in need.

 :asian:


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## someguy (Feb 19, 2004)

I'd use them to protect myself or sometimes another.  Theres a whole nother thread about protecting others somewhere I don't really remember where though.  If I  have to fight though it probably will look something like this 

 :btg:  or this :fart:


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## loki09789 (Feb 19, 2004)

Look into your local/state/provincial penal laws concerning use of force and deadly force... that's were I draw the line.  As long as I use this as a base line, judgement and choice are aligned to legal, justifiable applications.  Every person has the right to defend themselves, but usually there is some stipulation about an "obligation to retreat" as long as retreating doesn't put you in further or greater danger.  Some states wave this obligation if you are in your home or private business.

Paul M


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## Ceicei (Feb 19, 2004)

Only if I am or my loved ones are in *direct physical threat of being harmed*, then I will use martial arts or if warranted, my weapon.  If the situation is just badmouthing or anything like that from others, then no.  

- Ceicei


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## Eldritch Knight (Feb 19, 2004)

My instinct tells me in an unarmed, violent confrontation, its best to wait for the first attack before striking back. It not only protects you legally (which is a necessary priority), but if your enemy is untrained, its a lot easier to take them down. In the case of weapons, if I know that either myself or another (family or not) is in immediate danger of being hurt, its no-holds barred: I'd continue attacking until he is no longer a threat.


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## OULobo (Feb 19, 2004)

When I was still at college I used to scrap quite a bit, all drunken brawls and chest puffing (those were the good ole days, eh Moose). I will say that it gave me a good bit of confidence about my abilities, but as I got older I lost my taste for it (the fighting, not the booze). Too much at risk and nothing to really gain except a story to tell at parties. I haven't seen any action since and I don't plan to. Part of being at school was getting rid of all that, getting it out of my system. I noticed college is good for that along with the academic education. I have friends here that are older than me, but never went away to school, and they are still going through the scrappy piss and vineger stage. I guess now I just talk it down and keep my eyes open. I don't help friends that start stuff unless the fight takes a really ugly turn. Some people need a bit of a woopin every now and then. As for immediate family, there is no room to negotiate. I'm full tilt against anyone who takes on my immediate family. I only got one Mom and Pop and they're too old to start stuff and much too old to finish it. My fiancee is pretty cool headed, but when she's not, I usually end up having to talk her down, not the other people.


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## Black Bear (Feb 19, 2004)

Remember the two fundamental axioms of self-defense as handed down by the Angry Laser Monkey. 

1) Violence hurts. Even if you walk away without being hit, you will still have bruised knuckles. 

2) It is better to win than to lose. 

If you meditate upon these two precepts every morning, you will be able to bypass the confused monkey chatter of those around you, and infer all the intricate truths of use-of-force ethics. Mainly, it boils down to: "thou shalt use violence in order to prevent harm coming to yourself or those whom you care for, against anyone who has waived their right to their own personal, physical safety by credibly threatening the use imminent of force against you or those whom you care for". You never have perfect knowledge of another person's intentions, but you are accountable for the way in which you use the information available to you to make a judgement. 

Accountable: 
1) before yourself (conscience) 
2) before the state (legal considerations) 
3) before your God or gods (ethical codes) 
4) for some of you there are others: accountable before your community, other authorities, etc. 

So you see it is impossible for me to answer this question for anyone else, except to invoke the two self-defense axioms of the Angry Laser Monkey.


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## MA-Caver (Feb 19, 2004)

7starmantis said:
			
		

> My simple answer is never. You said when would you use your skill other than self defense? Never. Ok, let me rephrase that, self defense or the defense of someone else. Thats the only time I would fight.
> 
> 7sm



Ditto :asian:


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## Shinzu (Feb 20, 2004)

i would say that if my life or my families lives were in danger.  then i would fight.

also if i was attacked first.  i would defend myself to the point of saftey.


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## 7starmantis (Feb 20, 2004)

Yeah, I feel the need to clarify about defending others. If one of my friends gets in a pissing match with someone at a pub or something I'm going to sit back and watch, and probably laugh. Now if it turns ugly I'll step in, but not beat the other guy up, just stop him from really hurting my friend. Kind of the John Wayne approach I guess, "He's had enough partner" <in my best John Wayne voice>. 

Most of my friends are pretty cool headed, and they know that I'm not going to back them up if they did something stupid.

7sm


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## RHD (Feb 21, 2004)

At risk of this being construed as overly aggressive...Put your hands on me with intent and all bets are off.  Even look like you intend to harm my kids, wife, mother, or brother and I'll be in your face before you can blink.  Or maybe I'd just let my dog growl at you and see if you want to continue.
Mike


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## Dijos (Feb 21, 2004)

for me, when someone starts reaching for me or mine, it's on.  That said, carrying a gun taught me that ego is not worth fighting over.  Insults and abuse roll right off of my back.  My GF is the one I'm worried about getting me involved in a fight.   :uhyeah: --Joe


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## Tony (Feb 25, 2004)

Let me just say that I would walk away from most conflicts and even if I were insulted, my mother was insulted I would still walk away! But if there were no other way of escaping then I would fight like a wild Tiger to get free!
A while ago my car had been broken into, and I will never know how I would have reacted if I had caught the b&%t*&d who did it in the act!
At school I was bullied and I never fought back because I was more scared of the consequences, especially from the teachers! Silly really when I think about it because I should have been able to deal with a detention or whatever if I was being picked on. Such a pity I didn't officially start training in a Martial Art til I was 21!


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## Pacificshore (Feb 25, 2004)

When my life depended on it


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## Gary Crawford (Mar 5, 2004)

It's really hard to say,I've been ready to fight on several occasions,which my willingness to fight defused the situations.The last real fight I was in was in 1994 and that was defending a freind who had been attacked by a much bigger guy.


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## Tony (Mar 5, 2004)

Gary Crawford said:
			
		

> It's really hard to say,I've been ready to fight on several occasions,which my willingness to fight defused the situations.The last real fight I was in was in 1994 and that was defending a freind who had been attacked by a much bigger guy.



Wow Gary

What happened? I have a friend who will get into fights over the most minor of things and so me and my other friend have managed to talk him out of it!
Why was your friend attacked? Good for you, defending your friend! i hope I show the same courage if one of my friends is being attacked!


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## Gary Crawford (Mar 5, 2004)

Tony said:
			
		

> Wow Gary
> 
> What happened? I have a friend who will get into fights over the most minor of things and so me and my other friend have managed to talk him out of it!
> Why was your friend attacked? Good for you, defending your friend! i hope I show the same courage if one of my friends is being attacked!


I worked selling cars with my freind who had beem married to a girl for about six monthes who had been married before and had a two yr old son with her first husband.Her ex showed no interest in her or her son until my freind Randy married her,then her ex was at his house all the time.Randy trusted his wife and made the best of it,after all it was the guys son.After a few months of this,Randy told me the guy expressed interest in getting his wife back.Randy finally put his foot down and told his wife that all future visitaions would not be in his house.The day his wife was supposed to "have a talk with her ex" was the day it happened.All this information was given to me by Randy and I had never seen this guy before.We were out in front of the dealership waiting to see who might drive onto the lot interested in buying something(we call that waiting for "ups")Randy was inside at his desk talking on the phone,when an old Toyota p/u pulled in and by the way he was driving and the look on his face,we all thought he was a "pissed off customer" which we wanted nothing to do with.The guy went inside and went straight for Randy and got right in his face waiving his finger.Right then,I knew who he was and went up to my managers desk and said "call the police!There's a guy threatening Randy!"I turned my head back right when this jerk coldcocked Randy,I ran through two visiting bank officers to get to him,a couple other salesmen were trying to restrain him,I knew they didn't have him under control and were loosing what grip they had when I said "Let him Go!" I hit him with a fast front snap kick to the belly and followed with two really hard side kicks to his ribs which bent him over in pain.I stopped my attack to hear him say"(coughing) I'll get you!That didn't hurt,I know where you live!" I just motioned to him with my hands(saying nothing) to invite him back to fighting as he retreated.The rest of the day went really well for the dealership,we actually got fired up over it enough to sell lots of vehicles!Courage?NAW I didn't have time to think or be scared.


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## Tony (Mar 5, 2004)

Gary Crawford said:
			
		

> I worked selling cars with my freind who had beem married to a girl for about six monthes who had been married before and had a two yr old son with her first husband.Her ex showed no interest in her or her son until my freind Randy married her,then her ex was at his house all the time.Randy trusted his wife and made the best of it,after all it was the guys son.After a few months of this,Randy told me the guy expressed interest in getting his wife back.Randy finally put his foot down and told his wife that all future visitaions would not be in his house.The day his wife was supposed to "have a talk with her ex" was the day it happened.All this information was given to me by Randy and I had never seen this guy before.We were out in front of the dealership waiting to see who might drive onto the lot interested in buying something(we call that waiting for "ups")Randy was inside at his desk talking on the phone,when an old Toyota p/u pulled in and by the way he was driving and the look on his face,we all thought he was a "pissed off customer" which we wanted nothing to do with.The guy went inside and went straight for Randy and got right in his face waiving his finger.Right then,I knew who he was and went up to my managers desk and said "call the police!There's a guy threatening Randy!"I turned my head back right when this jerk coldcocked Randy,I ran through two visiting bank officers to get to him,a couple other salesmen were trying to restrain him,I knew they didn't have him under control and were loosing what grip they had when I said "Let him Go!" I hit him with a fast front snap kick to the belly and followed with two really hard side kicks to his ribs which bent him over in pain.I stopped my attack to hear him say"(coughing) I'll get you!That didn't hurt,I know where you live!" I just motioned to him with my hands(saying nothing) to invite him back to fighting as he retreated.The rest of the day went really well for the dealership,we actually got fired up over it enough to sell lots of vehicles!Courage?NAW I didn't have time to think or be scared.



Hi Gary

Thats amazing! you were prepared to defend your friend! If that guy has any sense he will stay away! I don't know how I would have reacted if that had been one of my friends in a similar situation! I do recall an incident in a pub over some silly misunderstandng with some guy. I was with my female friends and he got very abusive saying we were being rude to him! What had happened was one of my friends accidentally knocked his jacket off! My friend apologised, but then another one of my friends who has a bit of a mouth on her started to laugh, silly really! He challenged us and I was rather puzzled because I was just sitting there looking down wanting the situation to be over with! To be honest I was scared and I had been training in Kung Fu for maybe just over a year! But I still felt afraid and ashamed for not defending my friends. But this situation did not warrant any physical response but I stayed quiet and did not assert myself! So I admire you actions, I just hope I am able to react similarly if I have to!


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## Gary Crawford (Mar 5, 2004)

Tony said:
			
		

> Hi Gary
> 
> Thats amazing! you were prepared to defend your friend! If that guy has any sense he will stay away! I don't know how I would have reacted if that had been one of my friends in a similar situation! I do recall an incident in a pub over some silly misunderstandng with some guy. I was with my female friends and he got very abusive saying we were being rude to him! What had happened was one of my friends accidentally knocked his jacket off! My friend apologised, but then another one of my friends who has a bit of a mouth on her started to laugh, silly really! He challenged us and I was rather puzzled because I was just sitting there looking down wanting the situation to be over with! To be honest I was scared and I had been training in Kung Fu for maybe just over a year! But I still felt afraid and ashamed for not defending my friends. But this situation did not warrant any physical response but I stayed quiet and did not assert myself! So I admire you actions, I just hope I am able to react similarly if I have to!


No need to admire my actions,you or anybody else even with out martial art training will come to the rescue when the fight has already started especially when you have numbers to back you.In a situation like you discribed,I have been there too.Being scared is what nobody wants to admit,but WILL overcome you!That pure FEAR like in the previous thread is what ALL of us no matter how much experience we have have to face.The longer you are aware of the threat,the harder it is to overcome.Ask anyone who has survived a horrible car accident how scared they were during the accident,most will answer-"not at all until afterwards when I realized what just happened!"When things happen "suddenly" Time nearly stands still when in reality it happens in just an instant.That's why training to react is always best.The more we train to react,the less chance we will freeze.Well nobody really ever freezez when things happen suddenly,people just do what they are trained to do the most in that instant.When you are in a situation that things don't just happen and the threat seems to grow in intimidation,that's when you need to use your difusing skills as best you can,that's where "salesmanship" comes in.That's where you need to be convincing that the problem can be resolved and your "ego" needs to take a backseat.I would rather loose face and resolve any confrontation than have to fight someone.


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## ShaolinWolf (Mar 5, 2004)

I'm not really one to attack people for saying things to me. I usually ignore comments. I don't really have a short fuse. I may get mad about something, but I usually just let it go in no time. I'm one to walk away and the times I've been wanting to fight, I defused that will to fight very quickly.

I will only get violent when another person gets violent. Other than that, I won't fight. If someone intends to hurt a love one, then I will do whatever it takes to make sure they don't get the chance. And if they have already started, well, It's not going to be pretty.


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## Shotochem (Mar 8, 2004)

RHD said:
			
		

> At risk of this being construed as overly aggressive...Put your hands on me with intent and all bets are off.  Even look like you intend to harm my kids, wife, mother, or brother and I'll be in your face before you can blink.  Or maybe I'd just let my dog growl at you and see if you want to continue.
> Mike



My sentiments exactly.


However, my main objective is to never let a situation escalate to that level.  In most cases the clear headed rational person would be able to step back and take control of the situation.  If it gets out of control, there is no choice but to physically remove the threat.  The key word you spoke was "intent".  If I feel seriously threatened
I would without remorse attack first.  I am not so arrogant as to think Im good enough to wait for every attack and then  offer a counter. 

 I really do not wish to find out......


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## 7starmantis (Mar 10, 2004)

Yes, I must say that once one hand is laid on me, the line is crossed. Protecting myself starts when a hand is lain on me. At the first moment the attacker, or would be attacker touches you, you must react, otherwise you are ignoring your training and allowing the upper hand to your attacker.

7sm


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## loki09789 (Mar 10, 2004)

Shotochem said:
			
		

> My sentiments exactly.
> 
> 
> However, my main objective is to never let a situation escalate to that level.  In most cases the clear headed rational person would be able to step back and take control of the situation.  If it gets out of control, there is no choice but to physically remove the threat.  The key word you spoke was "intent".  If I feel seriously threatened
> ...



I would agree with the spirit of this post Shotochem, up to the idea of controlling the situation.  I can control myself through training and awareness, but I can only influence and read/react to a situation.  I can't control what will or is happening for the other person.  Honestly, I might not even be able to fathom what the other person/people are experiencing well enough to manipulate or fool them very well.

In any given situation, everyday or extreme, I am only truly in control of myself - if I choose to be.


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## 7starmantis (Mar 10, 2004)

loki09789 said:
			
		

> I would agree with the spirit of this post Shotochem, up to the idea of controlling the situation. I can control myself through training and awareness, but I can only influence and read/react to a situation. I can't control what will or is happening for the other person. Honestly, I might not even be able to fathom what the other person/people are experiencing well enough to manipulate or fool them very well.
> 
> In any given situation, everyday or extreme, I am only truly in control of myself - if I choose to be.


I don't agree, I think controlling a situation is what we spend millions on teaching our LEO's and security personel. I think it involves alot of "what if" 's but control can be achieved. Total control? Can you actually obtain total control over anything including yourself? Thats another topic all-together, but controling a situation is possible, just takes training and willingness to bend to the needs of the situation.

7sm


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## Tony (Mar 11, 2004)

I would like to think I could defend myself if I was attacked and make the attcker or attackers look worse than me! And I hope I have the courage of my convictions to defend those I love and friends but not those friends who pick fights or who are too stupid to walk away. How can anyone possiby justify helping another person attack another person. That is very dishonourable, unless outnumbered.
I would certainly like to be able to restrain a potential attacker or person willing to fight me, just so that we could both walk away unhurt.
Many times I have avoided conflict just by backing down, " no I'm not looking for trouble"! For the Police, they are trained in restraining techniques and always have their batons and pepper spray to fall back on, as well as the handcuffs.


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## loki09789 (Mar 11, 2004)

7starmantis said:
			
		

> I don't agree, I think controlling a situation is what we spend millions on teaching our LEO's and security personel. I think it involves alot of "what if" 's but control can be achieved. Total control? Can you actually obtain total control over anything including yourself? Thats another topic all-together, but controling a situation is possible, just takes training and willingness to bend to the needs of the situation.
> 
> 7sm



Notice I use the terms influence and manipulate as alternatives to control.  This is a strange turn from an earlier post about how you could not control when you were carjacked ( I hope you were the one who posted that comment in a past thread, if not, sorry.)


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## 7starmantis (Mar 11, 2004)

loki09789 said:
			
		

> This is a strange turn from an earlier post about how you could not control when you were carjacked ( I hope you were the one who posted that comment in a past thread, if not, sorry.)


Well, I'm not sure if that was me, I've never been carjacked, but I was attacked in my car once. Either way, allow me to clarify what I am saying. My last post said that I believe there is no way to completely control a situation. In my situation I was able to control the situation to a degree and protect my self and end the confrontation. I was not able to control wether they attacked me, thats true, but controling the situation is subjective to what is going on in the situation. Controling the attacker, no. Controlling the situation, yes, very possible.

7sm


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## loki09789 (Mar 11, 2004)

7starmantis said:
			
		

> Controlling the situation, yes, very possible.
> 7sm



The attacker is a factor in the situation, just like the weather, time of day, terrain, ...  Since I have very little or absolutely no control of most of these factors, I use terms like influence or manipulate because they connote 'limited control.'

If you are talking about control and you are saying that you can 'no way' control the attacker, you can not control the situation, at least the way I am looking at it.  Now, you did/can 'influence' your attacker with either body language, verbal language, or straight out beating on him until it isn't fun anymore , but I wouldn't call that controlling him either.


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## 7starmantis (Mar 11, 2004)

I can see your point, I think we are basically meaning the same thing. We just got caught in semantics, thats all. I got what your saying now.

7sm


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## loki09789 (Mar 11, 2004)

7 *

Agreed, I notice that we end up on basically the same page a lot, just get there through different doors , like on the body conditioning issue as well.


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## 7starmantis (Mar 11, 2004)

Heh, yeah its hard over this medium to get what someon means. I don't express myself very well through typing either I'm afraid.


7sm


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## OC Kid (May 6, 2004)

Hi guys Im new here so Please excuse my barging in and babbling like this.

  Self defense hmmm tough one. I started training my son who is 10 after he asked me to because some older bullies on his soccer team were grabbing him and threatening to to kick his A@@. I started his training with a "Karate is for defense only". 

   Well after about 6-7 months on one one training with me and him haveing constant trouble with these bullies, After I told the coaches a few times to no avail and after the bullies chased Johnny around the field after practice trying to beat him up. I told Johnny enough is enough. I went to the coach with Johnny and right in front of the bully told the coach that the talking is done and Johnny has my permission to mess this kid up. He shouldnt have to run from this bully and be afraid.

  Well about 2 months later Johnnny was walking to soccer practice and the Bully and a pal started calling him names and threatening Johnny. Johnny ignored them and kept walking to practice. During the practice game the bullies kept trying to trip Johnny and bang him with cheap shots, 
 Finally one of the bullies came up from behind and tried to hit Johnny from behind , Johnny busted the kid up without the bully laying a hand on him and left the bully doubled over and crying.
 The rest of his team saw this and now he has no more problems....

 Now did the bullies quit their bullying..No!
They started on other kids I have 8 students including the coaches son ( my only students they are from disadvantaged /broken homes so I teach for free) from the team . Now my students have no more problems with any of them plus the added beneifits of confidence and self esteme.


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## Tony (May 18, 2004)

Hi OC Kid

Well you should be very proud of your son for standing up for himself. When I was his age I would get into fights all the time but whenI got older I becamse more withdrawn and much more scared of authority figures,hence why I let the bullies always get the better of me! I wished not I had learned a Martial Art when I was younger to deal with them as well as improving my confidence.
Sometimes its hard to talk your way out of trouble whe  the other person is determined to hurt you. I have been studying Kung fu now for 6 years and in all that time I have never had to use what I have learned. But I think thats partly because I stay away from all the areas where there is a risk of violence and I avoid physical and even verbal conflict at all times.
I have a friend who is very highly strung and does take offence to people staring at him the wong way. He has been involved in many fights and this was all before he started in taekwondo. Him studying Taekwondo I feel makes things worst as he does get over aggressive in his sparring.
Saturday night we were all out, walking back from a club to the car park, he noticed some guys he did not want to bump into and made me and my other friend wait until they had gone.  There has been many occasions when he has nearly been in fights for the most trivial of reasons and even expected me and my friend to get involved when its totally unneccesary. Why should I defend someone who caused the problem in the first place when he could have walked away!
I would hope that if the situation presented itself I would be able to act.


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## MichiganTKD (May 19, 2004)

When would I be forced to fight?

 When someone lays a hand on me, my wife, or anyone I care about who cannot defend themselves. However, it also depends on the level of aggression. If it just some loudmouth or drunk, I will use enough force to get the point across that his actions are unacceptable. If he wants to go further, so be it.
 A friend of mine used to go to bars with me and ask me if I wanted to get into a fight. He also trained with me. As far as I was concerned, if he got into a fight he helped start, he was on his own, unless it was obvious he was outnumbered or outsized. Or if the guy had a weapon.


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## Han-Mi (May 19, 2004)

truthfully I used to be much more leniant to ignorant people than I am now. I used to actually allow them to try to hit me, and just block or dodge then leave. One day I was punched in the back of the head, I never wlked away from a fight again. However if there was a way out I took it. Then one day I tried to let an authority know of some troublesome bullies and I was kicked out of the building with the bullies. After that day I decided that I would not take guff off anyone. Now, I'm not talking a simple insult, but anyone in my face is disabled. Since I decided that, I haven't had many conflicts. I think that it is in the way I carry myself now.

My point is that If I feel threatened, slightly and for instant, I use a quick disabling technique. I try not to go into a full blown fight, too messy.


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## drunken mistress (May 31, 2004)

I think violence should only be used to counter violence. If someone is rude to you use the same weapon - your voice - and be rude back. I´m a grand master at verbal abuse. I don´t think a punch or kick is appropriate until someone is trying to cause you actual physical harm.


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## Flatlander (May 31, 2004)

drunken mistress said:
			
		

> I´m a grand master at verbal abuse.


Nice.  How long did it take you to achieve that rank?  I'm still just a yeller belt.:rofl:


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## MA-Caver (May 31, 2004)

drunken mistress said:
			
		

> I think violence should only be used to counter violence. If someone is rude to you use the same weapon - your voice - and be rude back. I´m a grand master at verbal abuse. I don´t think a punch or kick is appropriate until someone is trying to cause you actual physical harm.


I disagree. Being loud and rude back at someone (in my experience) only escalates the situation to the point of punches and kicks. It doesn't make any sense. It also puts one in a bad light as well. 
One of my (personal) cardinal rules about fighting comes from (ironically) a pacifist; Herbert George Wells: "The first man to raise a fist is the first one to run out of ideas."
 :asian:


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## MichiganTKD (May 31, 2004)

I agree. 
Being rude back, as tempting as it is sometimes, only escalates the situation to a possible physical altercation. If someone is rude to me I just shrug it off and stay calm.


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## Rich Parsons (Jun 1, 2004)

MichiganTKD said:
			
		

> I agree.
> Being rude back, as tempting as it is sometimes, only escalates the situation to a possible physical altercation. If someone is rude to me I just shrug it off and stay calm.




Hmmmmm????

Do you consier this being Rude? Here

The post right above this one.

I know I do call it rude. In my Opinion.

Also you can check out your posts in this Thread

Are some of these posts considered Rude? In my opinion it is.


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## Flatlander (Jun 1, 2004)

Hmmmmmm. Excellent evidence there that shooting out rude comments doesn't tend to de-escalate anything. Fortunately that was all done over a forum. May have been much worse face to face. Someone should have just "walked away" there. But, hindsight is always 20/20. Thanks for the post Mr. Parsons.


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## MichiganTKD (Jun 1, 2004)

There's a difference between rude for rude's sake and brutal truth. However, point taken. Sometimes you just have to let it go.


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## MichiganTKD (Jun 4, 2004)

Anyway, noone is ever forced to fight. Fighting is a choice we make depending on the circumstances. If someone attacks me, I could just as easily decide not to fight back, forfeiting my life, health, or the life and health of someone else. Not the bravest choice, but a choice nonetheless.


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## Brother John (Jun 4, 2004)

Tulisan said:
			
		

> No one can "force" me to do anything. It would be my obligation to use physical force in defense of myself, a loved one, or someone who is weaker and in need.
> 
> :asian:


can't add much more to that!
Well said.

Your Bro.
John


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## Cyrus (Jun 6, 2004)

I would fight for those who could not defend themselves and for the ones I love. 

Although anger swells up inside of me often I find that my resolve in my own will power and my religion is far more powerfull than any emotion invoked by another. I firmly believe that somone can't make you feel any ceartain way. You let it happen whenever you let what they were doing or saying affect you.


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## DeLamar.J (Jun 23, 2004)

Tony said:
			
		

> I know there are many people who would punch another person senseless if a negative comment was made about their mother or even what they were wearing! Some people simply enjoy getting into fights to prove their manhood!
> Other guys don't like their girlfriends being chatted up by other guys and will immediately lash out! Some Road rage incidents have resulted in brawls and even murders!
> So what I wanted to know was would anyone fight for minor things like being called gay or even someone pushing in front of them in a line somewhere?
> Being a placid guy I have never resorted to acting physically when I have been insulted but I would like to think if I was in danger that I could defend myself to the best of my abilities!
> ...


I will fight only when I am HIT by the other person, or if someone makes a threatening movent toward my wife I will strike first, and that is the only way I would ever strike first.


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## Shinzu (Jun 28, 2004)

agreed.  i would strike first if my life or the life of my family was in danger.  no doubt.


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## OC Kid (Jun 29, 2004)

I would defend myself only if I had to. If someone were trying to hurt me or hit me or my family in some way.
 Do just enough to stop the person from being able to hurt me.

 Which is what my son did the other day. 

Which is what i tell my students to do.

Then call the police and let them handle it.

Anymore gun play comes into the quotient. Its not just hands feet and sticks anymore.


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## Trent (Jun 30, 2004)

A great many potential situations come to mind and each one has a variation which could mean the difference between me doing nothing or responding physically; however, generally speaking, if someone unlawfully places their hands on me or a loved one they will experience some direct re-education on social, moral and legal codes.  If anyone is committing a violent felony in my presence their life has just changed for the worst.  

It is certainly an individual choice, as is most things.  I suspect that if people relied less on dialing "911" and praying for rescue from something that is occurring NOW (practically, logistically and geographically impossible), and took individual responsibility for their own, and their loved ones safety, far fewer problems would exist.

But that's me. *shrug*


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## Littledragon (Jul 1, 2004)

Martial Arts teaches one to avoid all possible fights and forms of violence.

The only time I would ever be FORCED TO FIGHT is if my life is being threatened or if a close friend or someone I love is being physically hurt.


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## Littledragon (Jul 1, 2004)

OC Kid said:
			
		

> I would defend myself only if I had to. If someone were trying to hurt me or hit me or my family in some way.
> Do just enough to stop the person from being able to hurt me.
> 
> Which is what my son did the other day.
> ...


I totally agree with you!



Also the best self defense is to run.


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## kenpo tiger (Jul 2, 2004)

7starmantis said:
			
		

> My simple answer is never. You said when would you use your skill other than self defense? Never. Ok, let me rephrase that, self defense or the defense of someone else. Thats the only time I would fight.
> 
> 7sm


Well said. :asian:  I concur. KT


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## kenpo tiger (Jul 2, 2004)

Rich Parsons said:
			
		

> Hmmmmm????
> 
> Do you consier this being Rude? Here
> 
> ...


In defense of MichTKD (which I'm not always ready to do but am now), he does tend to _*sound*_ a little testy at times.  As 7Star and loki pointed out earlier in this thread, sometimes what's written doesn't translate well and we misunderstand each other.  Within this forum (and with the exception of the originator of another thread elsewhere on this board who uses this forum to boast and bash other arts he feels are bogus) we all try to be respectful of each other's opinions.  I think maybe we all need to examine our language and what we are trying to say before hitting the 'submit' button.  After all, you have to consider when to submit in a fight -- or at which point you would be forced to fight...  KT


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## Kevin Walker (Jul 8, 2004)

Hi Guys,

The older I get, the less fights I get into - I guess it just comes with age and maturity.

But for me to get into a physical fight: 

1.) It has to be a self-defense situation, against anybody!

2.) I'm protecting the life or health of another person.

3.) I'm protecting some irreplacable & highly valuable documents or property (for example, I would fight to protect the 'Mona Lisa' or the state constitution from damage by vandals, etc.).

I would get into a word fight or argument:

4.) If I or my wife, girlfriend, female relative, or close friend, were verbally abused.

5.) I had to defend myself against malicious gossip or false accusations.

and I would commit aggravated felony homocide:

6.) If somebody (anybody) made fun of my pink tutu.


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## Flatlander (Jul 8, 2004)

Now that you drew attention to it!  (I wasn't going to say anything):rofl:


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## Kevin Walker (Jul 8, 2004)

flatlander said:
			
		

> Now that you drew attention to it! (I wasn't going to say anything):rofl:


A sense of humor is also required to defuse most explosive situations.


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## noble man (Jul 8, 2004)

We train in the MA to learn to defend ourselfs.If someone were to attack me or my family or a very good freind, I would use my art in a second.That is what I have trained for, to be able to take care of myself. Some of you may have never been sucker punched before,I have.Not to say I go looking for trouble, but I like to think I am ready for it when situation arises.


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