# BJJ, the new McDojo?



## Makalakumu (Dec 15, 2005)

This is a mild rant on my part so beware...

In my area, the closest qualified BJJ instructor is three hours away (I don't know this for sure, but I've check as many orgs as I could).  This is unfortunate because I would gladly take this art if I could.  

However, local dojos are starting to market BJJ as part of their curriculum...I think this is being done because of its success in NHB competitions.  I looked around to see if I could get at least a few tidbits of BJJ and most of what I found lacked much to be desired.  I was a better grappler then most of the teachers and that is not really saying much given that I am relatively low ranked in any grappling system I've trained in.  

The only person that I would even consider training grappling with up here at this point is my current sensei in Dan Zan Ryu Jujutsu, his teacher and a woman who is a blackbelt in jujutsu and has been to many BJJ seminars.  All three of them have good skills in grappling, but none of them are really doing BJJ which is what I would prefer.  

Other then that, everything else I've seen was nothing but a marketing ploy.  

Is BJJ becoming trendy?  Is this art a victim of its own success?  Is BJJ the new McDojo?


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## Shirt Ripper (Dec 15, 2005)

As anything grows in popularity it is likely to become somewhat watered down as taught or practiced by some.  People will try to cash in and a lot of these with completely obliterate any integrity they could have developed in that pursuit.  And then there are some you find their way there and really develop as people and help to gurther their field.

The trick is weeding out the garbage and until you stumble upon the "good stuff."


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## Andrew Green (Dec 15, 2005)

Give it 10 - 15 years it will be just as bad as any other art, all the pieces are in place.  High fees, belts are important, it's the current "Big thing".

Right now it is small enough that instructors can be looked up on a big lineage chart, as it grows that sort of thing will be impossible to maintain and factions will become more divided.


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## terryl965 (Dec 15, 2005)

Andrew it is more like 5-10 and it will be the new TKD on the block.
Terry


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## arnisador (Dec 15, 2005)

I see unqualified people adding grappling of some sort all the time. But, I saw it happen with ninjutsu too, and with Filipino stickwork on a smaller scale. It happens.


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## Andrew Green (Dec 15, 2005)

terryl965 said:
			
		

> Andrew it is more like 5-10 and it will be the new TKD on the block.
> Terry



I think it will be a little longer, right now the system is fairly good, and the promotion rates are low.  Only when the numbers of higher ranking people increase does the system completely fall apart, as it has in every other system...



			
				arnisador said:
			
		

> I see unqualified people adding grappling of some sort all the time. But, I saw it happen with ninjutsu too, and with Filipino stickwork on a smaller scale. It happens.



I think the problem is more with the using the name to sell.  Adding grappling is fine, adding stickfighting is fine.  If they are done "live" then the school is probably better with it then without.

But when people start using the name "BJJ" or made up rank in it to sell that things go bad.  Same for the Ninja schools in the 80's.  Pick a name that will get people in the door, add a few things that look kinda right and go.

It's as much a perception then anything, people view styles like name brands.  If I pick a Pepsi-cola at random I know something about what quality and flavour to expect.  If I pick a "Cola" then it's less so.  If I pick a "Soft Drink" then even less.

People view style names like brand names, and expect that all BJJ schools are the same.  But since the name is not protected anyone can use it. It's no different then selling something I made as Pepsi, it's not.  Regardless of whether it tastes the same, better or worse, it is not Pepsi and I should't be selling it as such.

Now if someone wants to create a new Cola they are free to do so, and can call it whatever original name they want.  If it is good it might sell, if not it won't.  Same as these guys adding grappling, go for it, do your research, learn the skills, add what you can, don't call it something it isn't and don't lie about what it is.  Give them the freedom to "Take the Pepsi taste test" and try the alternatives.

But if a TKD school adds some basic escapes, submissions and sweeps to what they are already doing, I'd say good for them, if they are honest about it and don't make up rank in BJJ or anything like that.


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## Makalakumu (Dec 15, 2005)

Andrew Green said:
			
		

> I think it will be a little longer, right now the system is fairly good, and the promotion rates are low. Only when the numbers of higher ranking people increase does the system completely fall apart, as it has in every other system...


 
In my experience, even organizations without rank split becuase of politics.  Rank can be a positive symbol of personal growth or it can be a status symbol for people with big egos.  Strip away the symbol (belt) and people with big egos will find some other symbol.



> I think the problem is more with the using the name to sell. Adding grappling is fine, adding stickfighting is fine. If they are done "live" then the school is probably better with it then without.
> 
> But when people start using the name "BJJ" or made up rank in it to sell that things go bad. Same for the Ninja schools in the 80's. Pick a name that will get people in the door, add a few things that look kinda right and go.
> 
> ...


 
Franchising and martial arts will always reduce quality, IMO.  If this happens with BJJ orgs, then we'll see BJJ McDojos.  However, I'm not sure if this is a problem yet.  In my experience, I'm seeing lots of fakes and frauds passing things off as BJJ that aren't BJJ.  And I can envision a time when the frauds out number the real practicioners because its easier to be a fake.  In the end, no one will be able to see the forest from the weeds.  I wonder if this is one of the major processes that water down an art?


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## arnisador (Dec 15, 2005)

upnorthkyosa said:
			
		

> In my experience, even organizations without rank split becuase of politics.


 
Yes, JKD comes first to mind...heck, there are 3 major boxing orgs., right?


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## AdrenalineJunky (Dec 15, 2005)

upnorthkyosa said:
			
		

> This is a mild rant on my part so beware...
> 
> Is BJJ becoming trendy? Is this art a victim of its own success? Is BJJ the new McDojo?


 
Yeeee-up. I have the same thing with Muay Thai. Local gyms are attending "seminars," and, all-of-a-sudden, they are training Muay Thai. I've been doing Muay Thai for 13 years, and I'm not sure how a seminar with Ajarn Sirisute, or Ganyao Fairtex, for that matter, qualifies you to be in a position to accept money for teaching what you learned over a one, two or three day seminar. BJJ seems much more involved than Muay Thai, so I'd really be concerned. It seems as though reputable gyms are not immune to this craze; certain well-respected gyms are sending off fighters to train BJJ. The result is low ranking practitioners teaching, and turning a profit for the gym. I'm all for sharing what you have learned. . .but getting paid as a novice, or even as an intermediate level practitioner. . .well, it's just unethical, IMHO.


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## shinbushi (Dec 15, 2005)

The thing is with arts like BJJ and Muay Thai they will be harder to McDojo as they train for full contact competition.  look at Judo there is very little mcdojoism (Except for karappy Karate/TKD schools that 'have judo' at their school) The BS schools will get their buts handed to them so they can not last long unless they start to uwse the too deadly to spar argument.  The danger is the adding on of too many rules so that the art looses its effectiveness.


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## Eternal Beginner (Dec 15, 2005)

Andrew Green said:
			
		

> Give it 10 - 15 years it will be just as bad as any other art, all the pieces are in place.* High fees*, belts are important, it's the current "Big thing".
> 
> Right now it is small enough that instructors can be looked up on a big lineage chart, as it grows that sort of thing will be impossible to maintain and factions will become more divided.



Not everywhere.  I think a lot of people who haven't actually studied BJJ talk about the "high fees, belts are important".  I am paying less now to study BJJ, kickboxing and sub grap, along with my husband and children than I used to pay for a quasi TMA.  High fees are not the rule, although of course that does occur.  

Same with the belts being important.  I think if you haven't actually spent time in a BJJ club you put your own perception and bias of belts on how they do it.  In our club a belt is a belt is a belt.  Yes, the higher ranks are appreciated for what they know, because to get there they have put it out there on the mat with _real_ competition.  It isn't like some clubs where you memorize a kata, get a belt.  Nothing is further than the truth.  A BJJ belt is actually something to be proud of because you have earned it and have proven that you are actually learning something rather than regurgitating what your instructor has taught you.

Of course BJJ is not perfect...I can see the mcdojoization occuring aleady with some generic clubs teaching "blends" of judo, BJJ, sub grap - using the established names to generate credibility but actually just cashing in on the latest grappling craze.


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## punisher73 (Dec 15, 2005)

> The thing is with arts like BJJ and Muay Thai they will be harder to McDojo as they train for full contact competition. look at Judo there is very little mcdojoism


 
Not true, all you have to do is train BJJ with drills and limit the amount of rolling.  Add in the factor of never teaching takedowns/throws and it won't take long at all.  Also, if you are in an area where there aren't BJJ tournaments close by or cross town schools you aren't going to have anyone to compare what you are learning.

I have seen lots of these complaints happening already on various forums.  Also, you can now buy BJJ rank from instructors.  It's already very much McDojo, just that there are still more legit schools than not but that is changing as we speak.


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## AdrenalineJunky (Dec 15, 2005)

punisher73 said:
			
		

> *Also, you can now buy BJJ rank from instructors*. It's already very much McDojo, just that there are still more legit schools than not but that is changing as we speak.


 
Am I reading this right???


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## James Kovacich (Dec 15, 2005)

I think we can blame the schools that "claim" to teach BJJ without really learning it but not as much as the greed factor that is bound to happen as did in most all arts.

Here in San Jose, Kenneth Funokoshi's yellow page add "used to" read Grandson" to Gichin Funokoshi.

Today he admits being only a distant nephew seveal times removed. This stuff happens.

I think it's OK to incorporate BJJ but under our own systems name. I put in 3.5 years BJJ and received what I needed and it is aprt of my system. Not it's core but it has it's place.


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## Flying Crane (Dec 15, 2005)

akja said:
			
		

> Here in San Jose, Kenneth Funokoshi's yellow page add "used to" read Grandson" to Gichin Funokoshi.
> 
> Today he admits being only a distant nephew seveal times removed. This stuff happens.


 
Wow.  I always knew he was a distant relative, but didn't know that he would fabricate such a deception.  that's an eye-opener.


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## punisher73 (Dec 17, 2005)

> Am I reading this right???


 
Yes, I will try and find it but I have seen on the Underground Forum ( www.mma.tv ) where people were complaining about people being able to buy ranks through videos I can't remember specific instructors but one of the people in question, but there were a few listed, and the sites where you could do this.


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## AdrenalineJunky (Dec 17, 2005)

punisher73 said:
			
		

> Yes, I will try and find it but I have seen on the Underground Forum ( www.mma.tv ) where people were complaining about people being able to buy ranks through videos I can't remember specific instructors but one of the people in question, but there were a few listed, and the sites where you could do this.


 
This makes me very sad.


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## hongkongfooey (Dec 31, 2005)

AdrenalineJunky said:
			
		

> This makes me very sad.


 
Nothing like our fast food society.

HKF


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## Grenadier (Jan 3, 2006)

AdrenalineJunky said:
			
		

> Am I reading this right???


 
Yes.  There are many individuals who are more than willing to sell certificates of rank to someone who pays them the fees, regardless of the style.  All it takes is the money and a letter, and presto!  You, too, can become a black belt in (insert any particular name of martial arts, real or fictitious).  

This kind of rank selling was seen in our favorite neo-ninja's dealings, where a certain fellow named Radford, "certified" someone (a yellow belt, if I recall correctly, in some style of martial arts) as a black belt in the art of "Vale Tudo..." even though there's no such style named "Vale Tudo."  

As for Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu having McDojos in its system?  Entirely possible.  People will attempt to capitalize on whatever they can, and whatever just happens to be the hot topic of the decade.  Prior to UFC / Royce Gracie debut, there probably wasn't much in the way of BJJ schools, and that such schools were most likely not going to have that dreaded "M" classification.  These days, with BJJ gaining in popularity, it's not going to be surprising if a McDojo pops up here and there.  

This can happen to any style, and the more schools of a particular style open, the more likely that eventually a McDojo will pop up.  

Bottom line: Watch the classes.  Trust your instincts, if things don't seem right.


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## green meanie (Jan 3, 2006)

AdrenalineJunky said:
			
		

> Am I reading this right???


 
Seconded. Or thirded. Or Whatever, I've started seeing the same thing too. I'll see if I can remember where I read about it and post a link.


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