# Tell us about your style of Kenpo



## John Bishop (Jul 19, 2004)

Well, from the polls here it's evident that we have practitioners from several styles of Kenpo here.  Please give us a short description of your kenpo style, it's founder, history, techniques, philosophy, etc.  

Here's mine:

*KAJUKENBO*

Kajukenbo is a Internationally recognized martial art founded in Hawaii in 1949. 
The evolution of art began in 1947 when Adriano D. Emperado, Joe Holck, Frank Ordonez, George C. Chang, and Peter Choo formed the Black Belt Society.   
These men were experts in different martial arts.  Adriano Emperado was William Chow's first "Kenpo Karate" black belt, and also had trained in "Escrima". 
Peter Choo was a "boxing" champion and had received training in "Korean karate". 
Frank Ordonez's style was "Danzan Ryu Ju Jitsu".
Joe Holck had trained with both Henry Okazaki, and Sig Kufferath, and earned black belts in "Kodokan Judo" and "Danzan Ryu Jujitsu".
George C. Chang was a "Sil-Lum Pai Kung Fu" stylist.
Together they trained for 3 years exchanging ideas and techniques.  "Kenpo Karate" became the heart of the system, and techniques from the other systems were added to the Kenpo to enhance it's effectiveness.  
By 1949 they systemized a martial art system that combined the techniques of all their systems. 
The system was then named "Kajukenbo".  "Ka" for karate, "Ju" for Judo and Ju Jitsu, "Ken" for Kenpo, and "bo" for Western and Chinese boxing(kung fu). 
Of the five founders, Emperado continued spreading and improving Kajukenbo. Today Kajukenbo is practiced worldwide, and has 4 methods, Kajukenbo Original (sometimes called Kenpo Karate branch), Chuan Fa, Tum Pai, and Won Hop Kuen Do.        
The Original Method consists of 14 Palama Sets (katas), 21 punch counters, 13 club counters, 15 knife counters, 15 grab arts, 8 two man attack counters, 1 three man attack counter, and 26 alphabet techniques(combination techniques).


----------



## Karazenpo (Jul 19, 2004)

Karazenpo Go Shinjutsu founded in 1958 by Victor 'Sonny' Gascon & Walter L.N. Godin. The system is a direct subsystem of the original hard style Kenpo Karate Method, later referred to the 'Emperado Method' of Kajukenbo. The system has a circulartory nucleus but 'blends the circle with the line' as all the Hawaiian derived systems do and is also noted for it's 'rapid fire' hand striking. It teaches indirect fighting as well as in-line direct, the choice being yours as you adapt the method that best suits you. Takedowns and follow up also referred to as 'groundwork' are an integral part of the system. At it's inception, Gascon and Godin with the guidance of Sifu John Leoning (Kajukenbo) synthesized Karazenpo's five original forms, 1-5 kata, from Kajukenbo's short original eight pinans (some say the first 6) although #4 kata was inspired by Okinawan Pinan #1 which inspired Shotokan's Heian #2. David Kamalani (originally Kajukenbo but joined Gascon & Godin) was credited with the creation of #3 kata. The first 15 techniques we inspired from the original 21 punch counters of Kajukenbo. Later, they were expanded to 21 as Karazenpo took a foothold in New England in 1960 by S. George Pesare. Club, knife and gun techniques were also part of the curriculum along with various releases from grabs referred to as the 'grab arts'. Grappling and Judo is also emphasized along with Korean style kicking to supplement kenpo's low line kicks. Pesare would add Stature of the Crane and 6 & 7 kata. #6 kata was made up of the combination techniques and 7 kata was inspired from a drill. Pesare also added a beginner form he called #1 Pinan which was actually Shotokan's Taikyoku Shodan and taught Bassai along with the traditional weapons including archery, handgun and blade fighting. The 'Gauntlet' (Kajukenbo's 'Monkey Line') along with various multi-man attacks and two to three man sparring drills are all part of the curriculum. Nick Cerio, a black belt of George Pesare (1966) went on to add more to the system in forms, combinations and weapons and later revamped everything calling it Nick Cerio's Kenpo in 1974. Fred Villari was a black belt of Nick Cerio's and in 1971 went independant ( leaving as a nidan but prior to completing his 1 year probation, he is therefore listed in the Cerio records as a shodan) adding more numerical combinations and forms to the system currently calling it Shaolin Kempo Karate. Essentially, Villari's system is the original Karazenpo Cerio taught him up to around second degree black belt, after that his system takes on a strong Chinese influence. The original Karazenpo Go Shinjutsu of Sijo Victor Gascon has taken a resurgence beginning in 1994 and the original system's curriculum has been expanded including the addition of the 14 'Monkey Dances' which are revised versions of the 14 Pinans, since renamed 'Palama Sets' of Kajukenbo. Weapons, techniques and other material has also been added. That's about it in a nutshell. Respectfully submitted Professor Joe Shuras


----------



## Pacificshore (Jul 19, 2004)

My style of Kenpo:


*KARA-HO KEMPO*



Founder: Professor William K.S. Chow

Current Inheritor/Leader: Grandmaster Samual Alama Kuoha

Techniques short list: Basic set, Advance set, Grab, Ground, Gun, Knife, 2-man, 3-man

Katas: Kwai Sun, Kata Set II, Hoshi, Combo

Weapons Katas: Bo, Sai, Nunchuk, Balisong, Kama, Tonfa


----------



## TIGER DRAGON FIGHT (Jul 20, 2004)

i study shaolin kempo under professor charles mattera, you can check the lineage icon on the website @ ussd.com.:jedi1:


----------



## Touch Of Death (Jul 21, 2004)

The school where I train does very little in the multiple tech department. Imagine having only three moves and three basic techs where everything else is considered a variation. We work on those variations but the names are not taught until after the lesson is over.
Sean


----------



## Mekugi (Jul 21, 2004)

_"Shinto Tenshin Ryu"_

According to some sources (the Bugeiryuha Daijiten for instance) this ryu started in the Keicho era and was taught/handed down within the Ueno family.
In 1941 Ueno Takashi decided to bring his martial art to the public and began teaching it openly. Unfortunately, the outbreak of WWII hindered it's progress and after the allied occupation of Japan in WWII he was forced to change it's name to "Tenshin Koryu Kempo" in order to keep practicing it. 
It was one of the martial arts taught by Ueno Takashi at the Tenshin Koryu Kempo Renseikai  where he influenced several well known practicioners of the martial arts today, (Such as Hatsumi Masaaki). It seems to be a collage of the different martial arts available to Ueno Takahashi as some of the other martial arts that Ueno Takahashi studied were : Shito Ryu Karate, Chinese "kempo", Asayama Ichiden Ryu, Shizen(?) ryu and Kukishin ryu Bojutsu (among others).


----------



## iTsDaNNy (Jul 22, 2004)

:jedi1: American Kenpo - Parker/Planas lineage. Doesnt get anymore easier to explain then that.  :ultracool


----------



## Zoran (Jul 22, 2004)

*Saviano's White Tiger Kenpo*
_Founder: Tom Saviano
 Established: 1981
 Lineage: Parker/McSweeney_

 The style of Kenpo is based off of John McSweeney's techniques and philosophy. The system is comprised of only a few base techs and forms (relatively speaking when compared to other Kenpo systems). Many of the principles found in EPAK and others are the same, although we may use different names to it. I guess what is unique to some other systems, besides method, is that it also incorporates quite a few large circular strikes and uses more circular blocks than the traditional karate blocks. Stems from Mr. McSweeney's exposure to Ming Lum and Crane Kung Fu when he accompanied Mr. Parker to many of his visits to China Town.

 Our claim to fame was when Keith Hackney used one of those large circular strikes to knock down someone 400 pounds bigger than him (which was called at the time a "wild right").


----------



## Mekugi (Jul 22, 2004)

Zoran said:
			
		

> Our claim to fame was when Keith Hackney used one of those large circular strikes to knock down someone 400 pounds bigger than him (which was called at the time a "wild right").


I remember that. He done whooped that big sumo guy.


----------



## mhouse (Jul 22, 2004)

My style is closely related to Karenzempo

The lineage is Gascon/Pesare/Cerio/Villari/Bryant&Nohelty. 

Bryant & Nohelty have changed teacher over the years, the began with GM Villari, later were accepted by Professor Cerio to study with him and currently study under GM Pesare. For more on them check out www.masterscenters.com

The system is composed of Combinations, numbered, with all of Villari's additions. 1 - 5 Kata, 1 - 5 Pinan, Heian Nidan, & Statue of the Crane. (Those are the katas up to black belt) There are also a number of Kenpo techniques, which generally are unnamed. In addition to that, there are techniques based on each of the 5 Shaolin Animals (Crane, Tiger, Leopard, Snake & Dragon) 

My specific school is undergoing some changes, but that is the lineage and style that I practice.


----------



## bujuts (Jul 22, 2004)

American Kenpo.  I'm a student of Mike Pick and of his student Marcus Buonfiglio.

Cheers,

Steven Brown
Universal Kenpo Federation


----------



## kroh (Aug 2, 2004)

Originally studied Shorinji Kempo but am now a part of the Shinko Ryu.

Good stuff...

Loved the lineages of the above systems...Very in depth...AS I live in Rhode Island it is good to see where all the stuff around me comes from.  Although I am not a part of those lineages I respect what they have accomplished over the years.

Regards
WalT


----------



## Shurikan (Aug 2, 2004)

Chinese Kara-Ho Kenpo/Kempo Karate

I Train under Grandmaster Sam Kouha


----------



## KenpoDave (Aug 2, 2004)

My style is Tracy's Kenpo.  I was brought up in the National Headquarters of the organization when it was run by Steve Finn.  Mr. Finn is a world class kicker, so, unlike most kenpo schools I have run across, we emphasized kicking quite a bit.  Since Mr. Finn's retirement, most of my instruction has come directly from Al Tracy, although, thanks to Master Dave Simmons, I recently had the opportunity to meet Kyoshi Roger Greene of the Tracy's organization (9th black) who has become my teacher, mentor, and friend.


----------



## senseishane (Aug 4, 2004)

Kara-Ho Kempo Karate.  Combination of hand and feet striking.  We also utilize principles from aikido in terms of leading ki and wrist locks and such.  We incorporate Chinese, Japanese, Fillipino (sp?), and also Hawaiian weapons.

Just a short/brief description.

Thanks,
senseishane


----------



## USKS1 (Aug 4, 2004)

Hello,

My primary style is Kajukenbo. I have trained with many great instructors, but my teacher is Sigung Brian K. Yoshii. I also train in Senkotiros Arnis under Grandmaster Max Pallen Sr.

For info on Kajukenbo go to the top of this thread and read Sigung Bishops description above. 

Keep up the hard training

Dean Goldade

www.kajukenbo-combatives.com


----------



## IKCAMemberGary (Aug 18, 2004)

Style: IKCA Chinese Kenpo
Founder(s): Chuck Sullivan 10th dan SGM and Vic Le Roux 10th dan GM

History: Chuck was one of the few 1st generation black belts under Ed Parker. He rose to 7th dan under Parker prior to Parker's untimely passing. Le Roux also studied with Parker, and was promoted to 5th by the Old Man.

The principles and ideals of Kenpo are alive and well in IKCA Chinese Kenpo. IKCA Chinese Kenpo has been slimmed down to 55 workable, usable techniques and one Master Form. The Master Form consists of all of the 55 techniques put into a form, which is taught a piece at a time at each belt level.

Having developed the "leaner, meaner" Kenpo allows students to master concepts and techniques faster, and not bogging them down with too many techniques.

Gary


----------



## Dark Kenpo Lord (Aug 18, 2004)

IKCAMemberGary said:
			
		

> Style: IKCA Chinese Kenpo
> Founder(s): Chuck Sullivan 10th dan SGM and Vic Le Roux 10th dan GM
> 
> History: Chuck was one of the few 1st generation black belts under Ed Parker. He rose to 7th dan under Parker prior to Parker's untimely passing. Le Roux also studied with Parker, and was promoted to 5th by the Old Man.
> ...


Gotta disagree about mastering concepts and techniques faster, it just ain't so.    Just cuz there's only 55 doesn't make it better or faster, it's the instructor giving you the knowledge of any and all techniques that has any efficiency, and of course, the will to learn them.   Those techniques you're learning for IKCA aren't any more valuable, and sometimes less, than the ones EPAK or Tracy people do.


DarK Lord


----------



## CB2379 (Aug 18, 2004)

I study American Kenpo.

Our curriculum is a combination of Parker's system and Tracy's system. After discussing this with some of my fellow students, I understand that the moves in the two systems are very similar it is just the names that are different. 

But from what I understand we study Parker at yellow, Tracy from Orange through Green belt. In Green Belt through black, it returns to Parker. 

I could be wrong and if I am, I certainly expect one of my fellow pals from my school to correct me on this.

Chuck


----------



## kenpo tiger (Aug 19, 2004)

CB2379 said:
			
		

> I study American Kenpo.
> 
> Our curriculum is a combination of Parker's system and Tracy's system. After discussing this with some of my fellow students, I understand that the moves in the two systems are very similar it is just the names that are different.
> 
> ...


Pretty good Chuckster.  I would only elaborate that what we learn at the upper belt levels are the techs with their extensions.  KT


----------



## The Kai (Aug 19, 2004)

Living in The Upper Midwest (Milwaukee) not allways the most choices, but - Back when started in Tracy's Kenpo, school closed down , just before black belt.  Jumped around a bit (shorin Ryu, GoJu and TKD).  Hooked up with a KaJuKenPo teacher (Algene Carulia downline).
From there explored a bit
Now I am mentered by Gm Don Jordan under the system of Shorinji Taegar Kenpo (quite a mouthfull) Which is a Blend of kenpo, Shorin ryu, Arnis, Hung Gar, and Shorin Ryu, Aiki juitsu
Other major influences are Shihan Mike Burton, GM DeAlba and Hanshi Juchnik (Founder of the Gathering)
I kept the name KaJuKenPo party because of my teacher of that art, also it is kinda generic (no offense to anyone) cause we do Locks, blows and Throws,.
People who ahve shared really cool stuff
Nathan Oretaga - KajuKenBo
GM Kuana (sp?) - Kara-Ho (patient teacher)
GGM ALEMANY - Kenpo
geaorge Elmer-Kenpo
Tony Annesi(sp?) - karate
Soke Harris Warren _Nippon Jutisu (excellent)

Wish list
SL4 - Mr. Chappel
BKF - Sanders
KaJuKenBo - really anyone!
Sorry to run on and on
Todd


----------



## Doc (Aug 22, 2004)

CB2379 said:
			
		

> I study American Kenpo.
> 
> Our curriculum is a combination of Parker's system and Tracy's system. After discussing this with some of my fellow students, I understand that the moves in the two systems are very similar it is just the names that are different.
> Chuck



Although I am not one of your fellow students - you would be wrong in your assumption in many instances.


----------



## Colin_Linz (Dec 27, 2004)

I study Shorinji Kempo. From my observations it is quite different to the American styles of Kempo many of you guys study.

Shorinji Kempo is the martial art that was developed by Doshin So, it is based on his lifes experience in the study of martial arts, both in Japan and China. It not only concerns itself with fighting techniques, but also with the study of its philosophy based on Kongo Zen Buddhism. The technical side of Shorinji Kempo is built around three different categories of techniques, although they all are designed to complement each other in a seamless integration. Goho covers the stiking, blocking and deflections; Juho covers throws, locks, pins and chokes; the last is Seiho, this is the medical side and covers massage, joint manipulation, and pressure point use for improved health. We all train under the one syllabus no matter where or who we train with, although because of Shu, Ha, Ri there will be minor differences in the way some techniques are taught.

I like the warmth and understanding of human relationships that Shorinji Kempo has, as well as the vast technical understanding and training methods.


----------



## Ray (Dec 28, 2004)

_


			
				CB2379 said:
			
		


			I study American Kenpo.

Our curriculum is a combination of Parker's system and Tracy's system. After discussing this with some of my fellow students, I understand that the moves in the two systems are very similar it is just the names that are different. 
Chuck
		
Click to expand...

_ 


			
				Doc said:
			
		

> Although I am not one of your fellow students - you would be wrong in your assumption in many instances.


I'd like to say that the first system I studied under was wholly Parker's American Kenpo, but since I didn't study under Mr. Parker I can't say that.  When I have been lucky enought visit studio's that bill themselves as "Parker Kenpo" I see much the same.

I did also study Tracy Kenpo and found some similarities and some differences.  For example, the Circling Wing that I learned in EPAK was similar to one of the Tracy variations Crash of the Eagles.  Tackle Techniques (in Tracy) were much like the Ram techniques in EPAK.  The EPAK Blinding Sacrifice I learned was like both variations of Tracy's put together (I can't recall the Tracy name).  I believe that the movements of EPAK's Obscure Wing (for a obscure shoulder grab) and Tracy's Japanese Stranglehold (for a rear choke) were almost exact in one variation.  

But I also saw some techniques in Tracy's that I didn't think were "great" techniques (that's my personal opinion and no insult intended--after all, I'll bet we all have our favorite technique and our least favorite technique even in our "base" system).

I spent a short time at an AKTS school and I did some things a little differently than they did; but quite a bit of stuff was the same.

The most surprising part of all the differences/similarities I've encountered is this:  I left my original instructor in 1992 and returned to visit him in 2002.  I performed forms and techniques with slight differences to his black belt class in 2002.  Now I am left to wonder if I changed or they changed...or how much we both changed.


----------



## Dr. Kenpo (Dec 28, 2004)

Tracy's for me!


----------



## Doc (Dec 28, 2004)

Ray said:
			
		

> I'd like to say that the first system I studied under was wholly Parker's American Kenpo, but since I didn't study under Mr. Parker I can't say that.  When I have been lucky enought visit studio's that bill themselves as "Parker Kenpo" I see much the same.
> 
> I did also study Tracy Kenpo and found some similarities and some differences.  For example, the Circling Wing that I learned in EPAK was similar to one of the Tracy variations Crash of the Eagles.  Tackle Techniques (in Tracy) were much like the Ram techniques in EPAK.  The EPAK Blinding Sacrifice I learned was like both variations of Tracy's put together (I can't recall the Tracy name).  I believe that the movements of EPAK's Obscure Wing (for a obscure shoulder grab) and Tracy's Japanese Stranglehold (for a rear choke) were almost exact in one variation.
> 
> ...



Let me simply say, don't presume that your knowledge of Ed Parker's Kenpo is sufficient through your experiences to make that specific judgement regardless of rank or time experience. The majority of the specifics of the system are not available in the majority of the commercial schools.


----------



## Chaso0903 (Dec 28, 2004)

I study Shaolin Kempo or Shaolin Chuan'fa in california with united Studios of self defense more later a student just came in for a private ussd.net take a look


----------



## Doc (Dec 28, 2004)

Chaso0903 said:
			
		

> I study Shaolin Kempo or Shaolin Chuan'fa in california with united Studios of self defense more later a student just came in for a private ussd.net take a look


----------



## patfromlogan (Dec 29, 2004)

My first kenpo was Kajukenbo (Sifu Steve Davis) and it was a lot of fun here in Utah.  I had done some karate when I was in high school in Honolulu and I like the fluidity.  When visiting Hawaii I went to lower Kalihi to find the school and couldn't locate it.  It was up a staircase above a bakery. The locals were kind of giving the haole boy the 'stink eye' until I asked "Excuse me but could you tell me where the Kajukenbo school is?"  Then it was weird, everyone seemed to back away and get real polite.

Years later I did some time in a Parker split off, one that got rid of some of the more "silly" (IMHO-now don't get mad, you guys know everyone in a white gi laughs at you until you slap 'em upside the head!) techniques like slapping yourself and the ten zillion named routines (and had NO Mormon influence).  It, like Kajukenbo was a real friendly school, with old, young, male and female all getting sweaty and bruised.

When I'm visiting family in Hawaii I am lucky to have joined and work out with Universal Kempo Karate, Prof Martin Buell's organization. I haven't spent very much time with them but it has been great.  They are a Kajukenbo split off, and have lots of branches.  As a white belt I can work out with the two branches run by Instructor Eric. One is near my family's home in Kailua, the other in Kalihi.   The Kailua branch is large and diverse, and I got a real kick out of being the old haole guy working out in Kalihi near the birthplace of Kajukenbo with a group of locals (and several tough looking ones, too).  The people are so friendly; brotherhood is emphasized.  I noticed when I joined that all the advanced students made it a point to come up to me and introduce themselves.  

Here in Utah I've joined a Kosho Shorei Ryu Kempo dojo.  The instructor is Fred Perales, himself a student of Hanshi Juchnik.  The diversity of techniques (standup, clinch, locks, ground, stick, sword) and the emphasis on avoiding anger and fighting are very interesting.  It seems that it is taking me forever to learn the 'going with it' flow, but in the other karate dojo I attend the sensei has noticed that I'm better!  The greatest lesson I've learned was when a big guy was resisting a takedown and I forced it and threw him.  Sensei ran over and said that that wasn't the way to do it. I was saying that since he was fighting it I had to use force and he then showed me how you can reverse the move to go with the power. Hmmmmmm.... Still working on that one.


----------



## Thunderbolt (Dec 29, 2004)

Chaso0903 said:
			
		

> I study Shaolin Kempo or Shaolin Chuan'fa in california with united Studios of self defense more later a student just came in for a private ussd.net take a look


i studied at USSD's local school and my experience was horrible. I will never return to USSD even though you give me FREE private lesson for the rest of my life.

their belt testing was so EASY and LAUGHABLE and my old USSD instructor was not an instructor. I must say he was a saleman. He tried to sell vitamin crap to his students and did all the shitttttty stuffs. I BYE BYE him and the rest of USSD schools in no time.

i haven't SEEN any *shaolin* element in USSD's techniques at all. What a sad EXPERIENCE.!

I'm not here to trash my OLD *organization*. If you wonder why their belt testing is so EASY and LAUGHABLE, all you have to do is to go to their Lake Forest headquarter to see how they test their students and you will know what I mean.

i'm glad that I'm in a good hand now and i need to focus on my training. I'm happy with my current instructor.


----------



## kroh (Dec 29, 2004)

Who do you train with now?


----------



## Dark Kenpo Lord (Dec 29, 2004)

patfromlogan said:
			
		

> The greatest lesson I've learned was when a big guy was resisting a takedown and I forced it and threw him. Sensei ran over and said that that wasn't the way to do it. I was saying that since he was fighting it I had to use force and he then showed me how you can reverse the move to go with the power. Hmmmmmm.... Still working on that one.


Sounds like you found some decent instruction.    I was showing that principle about 3 weeks ago, angles of least resistance, sometimes it's better just to go with it for an even better effect.

DarK LorD


----------



## Ray (Dec 29, 2004)

Doc said:
			
		

> Let me simply say, don't presume that your knowledge of Ed Parker's Kenpo is sufficient through your experiences to make that specific judgement regardless of rank or time experience. The majority of the specifics of the system are not available in the majority of the commercial schools.


Thanks for the feedback.  I am certain that I have a great deal to learn and appreciate the fact that people like you make knowledge available.

_(If, upon first reading, it sounds sarcastic; it's not--I really do appreciate those who have great knowledge and strive to educate others)._


----------



## Dr. Kenpo (Dec 29, 2004)

Ray said:
			
		

> Thanks for the feedback. I am certain that I have a great deal to learn and appreciate the fact that people like you make knowledge available.
> 
> _(If, upon first reading, it sounds sarcastic; it's not--I really do appreciate those who have great knowledge and strive to educate others)._


I don't think you were sarcastic at all, you just want to learn. It's one who comments here who can't answer w/o being condescending. One can be educated w/o being put down, especially when you didn't say anything bad. Go figure.:idunno:


----------



## Thunderbolt (Dec 29, 2004)

patfromlogan said:
			
		

> My first kenpo was Kajukenbo (Sifu Steve Davis) and it was a lot of fun here in Utah. I had done some karate when I was in high school in Honolulu and I like the fluidity. When visiting Hawaii I went to lower Kalihi to find the school and couldn't locate it. It was up a staircase above a bakery. The locals were kind of giving the haole boy the 'stink eye' until I asked "Excuse me but could you tell me where the Kajukenbo school is?" Then it was weird, everyone seemed to back away and get real polite.
> 
> Years later I did some time in a Parker split off, one that got rid of some of the more "silly" (IMHO-now don't get mad, you guys know everyone in a white gi laughs at you until you slap 'em upside the head!) techniques like slapping yourself and the ten zillion named routines (and had NO Mormon influence). It, like Kajukenbo was a real friendly school, with old, young, male and female all getting sweaty and bruised.
> 
> ...


can you tell me what you are studying right now because you learn many styles at 1.? Are you confused when you try to learn all of them at 1 time.??

thanks


----------



## Doc (Dec 29, 2004)

Ray said:
			
		

> Thanks for the feedback.  I am certain that I have a great deal to learn and appreciate the fact that people like you make knowledge available.
> 
> _(If, upon first reading, it sounds sarcastic; it's not--I really do appreciate those who have great knowledge and strive to educate others)._


I didn't think you were being sarcastic. We are all students.


----------



## Doc (Dec 29, 2004)

Dr. Kenpo said:
			
		

> I don't think you were sarcastic at all, you just want to learn. It's one who comments here who can't answer w/o being condescending. One can be educated w/o being put down, especially when you didn't say anything bad. Go figure.:idunno:


Yeah, go figure.


----------



## Dr. Kenpo (Dec 30, 2004)

Doc said:
			
		

> Yeah, go figure.


Eres tu, sonso.


----------

