# INward or outward technique



## Yari (Mar 20, 2005)

Hi

What do you preferr, an inward technique like nikkyo ("energi" pointing towards uke), or an outward technique like Ikkyo?


/Yari


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## Aikikitty (Mar 21, 2005)

The question is a little confusing to me.  My favorite technique is Nikkyo.  However, when I'm doing Randori, I'll just try to do whatever technique is available.  

Robyn  :asian:


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## Yari (Mar 21, 2005)

Hi

I know the question wasn't clear. I was trying to see/hear how people see the different techniques.

Ikkyo would be a technique that "pulls" uke around hos center, specically ikkyo ura. But Nikkyo always set the momentum directly back to tori. As in sankyo.

/Yari


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## theletch1 (Mar 22, 2005)

I prefer an ikkyo but mostly just because too many of the nikkyo give uke a split second where my back is somewhat to him.  That split second could be all it takes to have an arm around your throat and uke on your back.  Granted, if you're doing the tech correctly it should happen in such a way that uke's balance is already gone or going and avoid that scenario but an ikkyo avoids it all together.

((nice to see ya back Yari.  Hope the family is doing well))


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## Yari (Mar 22, 2005)

theletch1 said:
			
		

> ((nice to see ya back Yari.  Hope the family is doing well))



Thanks!

well things are going for the better. Nice to be back.
I'm trying to get things stirred up again, so people know there something called Aikido     :asian:   

/Yari


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## Aikikitty (Mar 22, 2005)

Yari said:
			
		

> Thanks!
> I'm trying to get things stirred up again, so people know there something called Aikido     :asian:
> /Yari



We appreciate that!  We need more active topics in Aikido forum.  (I'd post or reply more except sometimes I have no idea what a certian technique, style, etc. is that someone is talking about, because I've never experianced it and can't comment, etc.)

Robyn  :asian:


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## theletch1 (Mar 22, 2005)

Don't let not knowing stop ya.  Heck, I study a style that isn't one of the Ueshiba sub-styles so that puts me WAY outside the loop.  We don't use the japanese terminology for techniques so I have to go to my reference material (aikido and the dynamic sphere mostly) to carry on most conversations.  I really think that having so many different perspectives on all the different styles of aikido and how they all tie in is great.


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## Paul B (Mar 22, 2005)

Hi all,

I'm taking a stab at this,not sure how it'll come out....

Ikkyo Omote(Irimi)/pretty much spins uke around on a dime..love that one,nice and splatterific.

For Nikkyo,I would say it depends on what is being offered by way of attack. Katate dori is a nice set-up,one I would prefer over kosa,but that's just me. I find the version of Nikkyo w/o the trap from Katate dori allows me a more substantial grip on uke,and thereby more control in my eyes.

I really try to make an effort to view all technique equally,but it is hard to keep from having one's favorites,eh? 

Overall,I try to practice the appropriate technique for the situation. *I do have a special affinity for Irimi(Omote) techniques,though* :wink:


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## theletch1 (Apr 2, 2005)

The Opal Dragon said:
			
		

> We appreciate that!  We need more active topics in Aikido forum.  (I'd post or reply more except sometimes I have no idea what a certian technique, style, etc. is that someone is talking about, because I've never experianced it and can't comment, etc.)
> 
> Robyn  :asian:


Robyn,  your post got me to thinking the other night at work about the language barrier so to speak in this forum.  Even though we're all studying the same basic art we are having a heck of a time communicating with one another.  Might I suggest that everyone get a copy of "Aikido and the Dynamic Sphere" as a reference?  I know most of us probably already have a copy somewhere.  It's an excellent way for us to be able to visualize what others are talking about by giving page number in the book or technique name from the book regardless of our own style...although I'd love to hear what everyone else calls a particular technique and be able to set up a database of technique name/style.  I think this would really help get things flowing here in the aikido forum again.


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## Aikikitty (Apr 3, 2005)

I just rooted around in my closet.  All I have is "Dynamic Aikido" and "Total Aikido".  I've seen "Aikido and the Dynamic Sphere" in the stores, and I thought I had it too.  Guess not.  It's a good idea about trying to figure out the names of the techniques--what's the same and what's called something else in what style.  We just need more topics in here period.  (Even if we have to "borrow" such threads from other >ahem< Aikido forums so we can discuss them over here.  Just a thought.)

Robyn  :asian:


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## Yari (Apr 4, 2005)

theletch1 said:
			
		

> ......  Might I suggest that everyone get a copy of "Aikido and the Dynamic Sphere" as a reference?  .....



Sounds like a good idea! 

I have the book, and think it's a good reference.

Regards
Yari


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## kempo-vjj (Apr 4, 2005)

big difference the feel between being on the outside vs.inside, actually have a chance to drop the arm and run with Ikkyo although in a situation your work would not be done yet, but with Nikkyo I never find myself with my back turned except in sankyo if a spin is employed. I enjoy the transition between all of these if one is not working, the opposite movement, works right in one of the others. Of these three Nikkyo is the most painfully to me.


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## Jenna (May 21, 2006)

Interesting I never thought of this but I suppose the answer is in the frequency of use and with the choice of the  two that would be ikkyo for me. In general I think ikkyo is more "aiki" than nikkyo it always feels more... I dunno, um... FLOWing?? I am not certain if that is the right word or if   anyone will understand what I mean. Ah, who am I kiddin theres nobody here right???? Hello??  Anyway, there is a  halt stop-you're-dead feeling  in nikkyo technique that makes me prefer ikkyo now that I think of it. A good question. And makes me think maybe I should have been a dancer instead , LOL 

Help, I need some coffee, stat!

Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna


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## jujutsu_indonesia (May 24, 2006)

Yari said:
			
		

> Hi
> 
> What do you preferr, an inward technique like nikkyo ("energi" pointing towards uke), or an outward technique like Ikkyo?
> 
> ...


 
in many traditional systems, including ours, amongst the first techniques taught is the most important, it's called uchikomidori, it looks like daito-ryu shinbukan's ippondori, also looks like the first technique in tomiki aikido koryu goshin no kata idori set. it also looks like shomen uchi ikkyo omote in aikikai aikido. however the way each styles doing it are rather different.


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## P A Goldsbury (May 25, 2006)

theletch1 said:
			
		

> Robyn, your post got me to thinking the other night at work about the language barrier so to speak in this forum. Even though we're all studying the same basic art we are having a heck of a time communicating with one another. Might I suggest that everyone get a copy of "Aikido and the Dynamic Sphere" as a reference? I know most of us probably already have a copy somewhere. It's an excellent way for us to be able to visualize what others are talking about by giving page number in the book or technique name from the book regardless of our own style...although I'd love to hear what everyone else calls a particular technique and be able to set up a database of technique name/style. I think this would really help get things flowing here in the aikido forum again.


 
Hello,

I have _Aikido and the Dynamic Sphere_ and found it very useful when I was a beginner. However, I no longer believe that Westbrook and Ratti is a good indication of aikido waza. In an interview, Morihei Ueshiba once said that there were many thousands of aikido techniques and the charts given in the Westbrook & Ratti book (and also in Vol 3 of Saito's _Traditional Aikido_, and the techniques illustrated in Kisshomaru Ueshiba's _Aikido_) can be misunderstood as representing the 'basic art'. I do not think this is true.

Morihei Ueshiba never coined names for techniques. He simply showed variations depending on the attack. There were some techniques he numbered in a series, but there were no names. His students coined the names as descriptions of what they had learned, and it seems to be the case that each instructor developed his/her own system, depending on their preferences.

When I came to live in Japan, I encountered waza I had never seen before (and I was already a yudansha with ten years of experience, when I came here). There are no names for these waza. We just practise them on occasion. Even now there are waza I practise that some students outside Hiroshima have not seen before. They are techniques created by my own teacher. Of course they are aikido, since they are based on certain principles, but the point of the waza is to illustrate, and stengthen one's grasp of, the principles and not vice versa.

So I think your idea of building a comprehensive database, while attractive, will be an enormous project and will be lacking in one crucial element: the spontaneous creation of techniques.

Best wishes,


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