# A belt that goes against school tradition?



## Carol (Oct 8, 2006)

Over the past few months I've been able to visit a few different Kenpo schools and have seen a few different school traditions....including traditions of what goes on one's belt when one is a black belt.

I thoguht that what goes on a person's belt is largely a personal decision.  However, after seeing a few schools, it seems that what I have seen is what goes on a student's belt is a school tradition.

How would you, or your school, react to a student that wished to wear a black belt that went against school tradition? 


Would that reaction change depending on if the student wanted their belt to be more decorated, or less decorated than what was normally seen at the school?


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## Kacey (Oct 8, 2006)

I don't know that much about Kenpo - I do know that our TKD association specifies what will - and won't - be embroidered on a belt.

I have 2 embroidered belts for my current rank, both gifts from my instructor.  One is a plain black belt with 4 gold stripes on each end; the other is a plain black belt with my name and a Roman numeral IV on one end, and TKD in Korean and a Roman number IV on the other end.  That's my dress belt, and I usually only wear it for events - testings, tournaments, and seminars.  I wear the one with the stripes to teach and work out.  I also keep a plain belt with no rank markings in my locker with a spare uniform; stuff happens!

This is the standard for our association:
I - III Dan belts are embroidered in white - either stripes (no stripe on a I Dan belt) or name/rank on one end, TKD in Korean and rank on the other
IV-VI Dan - same, except the embroidery is gold
VII-IX Dan - same, except the embroidery is red

That's all we do; no extras allowed, although anyone who wants to wear a plain belt is welcome to do so.


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## dianhsuhe (Oct 8, 2006)

Hmm... Well in Kara-Ho Kempo ALL black belts have "Kara-Ho Kempo" on one side and your name down the other.  No stripes on the tips, ever.  At 5th degree as I recall the belt is half red/ half black?  There are also red or gold stripes through the belt for regional or national representatives.  Not rank related.

No-one can have more than 1 Belt, when I was issued one and it started to fall apart after just a couple months, I was issued another one.

How would we react if a student wore a belt that was against tradition?  It would not be allowed.  When we have an instructor who transfers to our system they can wear whatever they had from their other system but as soon as they get official Kara-Ho rank, they get a belt as mentioned above.

Not a personal preference
No decorations ever
black gi and yellow under shirt for under-belts, black gi and yelloow or black undershirt for instructors.
no extra patches just one on front, one on back

Have a great day!


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## still learning (Oct 8, 2006)

Hello, In our kempo the system...all schools must wear the same color uniforms and patches, no unauthorized patches.

All belts are issue by our Professor....Only those issue by the Professor is allow.  No one can design there own belts or add anything unless aprove by the Professor.(None so far).

If you have  any patches/belts on against traditions...you will be ask to remove them. ......Aloha


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## IWishToLearn (Oct 12, 2006)

I have a couple of points of view on this one.

#1 is the traditionalist mindset - my instructor gave me this belt, I will not show him dishonor by choosing to wear anything else, ... (Wink wink.)

#2 I have my own school - therefore I can choose to wear anything I want. (I have a separate ranking system for paying respect to those who came before, in my eyes no matter the rank I ever reach -right now I'm a 3rd Black-it'll be several years before I even consider testing- I wanted some way to recognize that those who came before paved the way, and it is because they set the bar and provided me with knowledge that I can do my best to succeed. I use the Kenpo style rank designations on our belts, except from 6th degree to 10th degree the stripes and bar that get added to the belt turn from red to white. So you'll have red stripes up to 5th, then when new ones are added the new ones are white. It's a nod to both my kenpo heritage and Yasashii Do heritage. When I attend a function for the Karate Connection when I wear their patch in the primary position on my uniform I wear their rank and their colors. When I attend a Yasashii Do function, I wear Yasashii Do colors and belt. When I'm home, I wear mine.)

#3 Who needs a belt?

#4 If I walk into any new school as a student I wear their uniform with the belt the head instructor tells me to wear. When I started TKD I was a Nidan in Yasashii Do - my Sabumnim told me to wear my previous rank, but I politely requested to be allowed to start as a white belt. He asked me why - and I told him I wanted to be looked at like any other new student, only he and a couple of the senior senior students knew I had previous training. I didn't spar with the white belt classes, I sparred with the advanced classes and took the belt off for those in a mutual decision with Sabumnim.

Now, I know all of my current Instructors allow people with previous training to wear their previous uniforms, but if you want to be promoted you wear their colors and their belt. Yasashii Do belts are standardized. TKD belts were customized with the thread color preference of the individual. My belts are standardized. You want the promotion - you take the belt we give ya. 

I guess I have multiple personalities after all.


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## matt.m (Oct 12, 2006)

I can speak from observation only.  I will use my dear ole pop as an example.  When leading regular class session he wears a plain white dobok, with prescribed embroidered belt.

When at the convention he will wear his Master dobok with the trim and piping, with master black belt only if he is teaching a session.

If he is in another class, example being a tae kwon do instructor being the teacher he will wear a plain dobok and plain black belt.

When Bill Wallace was teaching his part at one of our conventions dad wore a single weave dobok and plain black belt.

From what I have seen that is the standard of our dan ranking members.  It is a humility thing.  We as martial artists should all know of that.


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## HKphooey (Oct 12, 2006)

We have some rules, but overall Black Belts are free to choose the Black Belt they want to wear.

Heck if I wanted a uniform with medals and patches that meet regulation, I would join the military.  

I get a lot of flack from kenpo purist for having a kenpo crest on the bottom of my gi pant leg.  I placed it ther after GM parkers passing and have always had one there since.  It reminds me that kenpo is nothing without a solid base.  My legs are the root of my kenpo.


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## IWishToLearn (Oct 12, 2006)

HKphooey said:


> I get a lot of flack from kenpo purist for having a kenpo crest on the bottom of my gi pant leg. I placed it ther after GM parkers passing and have always had one there since. It reminds me that kenpo is nothing without a solid base. My legs are the root of my kenpo.


 
I may borrow that idea...


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## Ronin Moose (Oct 12, 2006)

HKphooey said:


> I get a lot of flack from kenpo purist for having a kenpo crest on the bottom of my gi pant leg. I placed it ther after GM parkers passing and have always had one there since. It reminds me that kenpo is nothing without a solid base. My legs are the root of my kenpo.


 
*Nice personal tribute, in my opinion!  Salute.....*


*-GARRY*


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## HKphooey (Oct 20, 2006)

Ronin Moose said:


> *Nice personal tribute, in my opinion! Salute.....*
> 
> 
> *-GARRY*


 
Took a picture...


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## Sigung86 (Oct 21, 2006)

I kind of suspect that the rule of thumb should be, "When in Rome ... " or perhaps, "Do what you're told"... 

Where I teach, most of my students, originally, were unable to afford new uniforms, much less the cost of lessons.  So, when they came, I simply let them wear what they "brung".  Belts were handed down from other senior students, and myself.  It made for some interesting uniform, belt compilations, (Ever see a really big guy with a size 5 belt? :lol: ) but it also allowed the students to have a bit of pride in their progress.

Most of the "broke" students have either gone on to some substantive income, or gone by the wayside.  Now-a-days, we use a simple black uniform with a simple color belt.  The Black Belt is the standard Kenpo belt with red stripes or bricks ... As necessary.

Tradition is what you choose it to be.  I think that each school, in essence, creates its own traditions as the head instructor and students go on their path.


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## IWishToLearn (Oct 21, 2006)

Hey Dan when you going to put up a school website?


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## Sigung86 (Oct 22, 2006)

IWishToLearn said:


> Hey Dan when you going to put up a school website?



1.  When I figure out how
B.  When I find money to support the site
3.  1 + B and when I find time
D/4.  All of the above!

:lol: :lol: :lol:


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## IWishToLearn (Oct 23, 2006)

Sigung86 said:


> 1. When I figure out how
> B. When I find money to support the site
> 3. 1 + B and when I find time
> D/4. All of the above!
> ...


 
1)Can't help you here.
B)I offer free web hosting so long as you don't mind it's on a DSL line which may or may not go out depending on local power outages. (None so far this year.)
3)Can't help you here.
D/4)Get off yer duff.


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## bushidomartialarts (Oct 27, 2006)

organization i came up in bought your belt for you, embroidered to spec and you'd get in dutch if you wore a different belt to class or a function.

in the studio i run, we have guidelines for black belts, but you get to wear what you feel like.


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## Stooooo (Oct 27, 2006)

This is a great topic of discussion.  I have a question along these lines....  I just recently started in Kenpo, but I have a green w/ blue stripe from my days in TKD.  The head instructor, told me I could wear it out of respect for my past experience.  However after reading what has been written here I am thinking I should wear my white belt out of respect for my new school.  What do you think?

All the best,
Stu


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## exile (Oct 27, 2006)

Stooooo said:


> This is a great topic of discussion.  I have a question along these lines....  I just recently started in Kenpo, but I have a green w/ blue stripe from my days in TKD.  The head instructor, told me I could wear it out of respect for my past experience.  However after reading what has been written here I am thinking I should wear my white belt out of respect for my new school.  What do you think?
> 
> All the best,
> Stu



If I were your instructor, I would find it a nice gesture on your part---kind of that you were going the extra mile to be part of your new school. Just my own $.02...


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## HKphooey (Oct 27, 2006)

I agree with exile.  It says a lot about your character and why you are training.


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## Ping898 (Oct 27, 2006)

Do what you feel most comfortable with as the instructor has really left that decision up to you.  Most schools in my experience ask you to wear their belt levels unless you are a black belt or going to a school that teaches the same style.  
If it were me because it is a different style and the belt you have might not exist in their hierarchy, I would start with white and go up the ranks with their belts....


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## matt.m (Oct 27, 2006)

Welcome to MT man.  By the way, I have been awarded an honorary dan in judo.  I have a green belt in tae kwon do.  If I were to go to a karate school per se I would wear a white belt.

Different system, different cirriculum.


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## bushidomartialarts (Oct 27, 2006)

in my school, if anybody comes with rank from another style, we allow them to wear that belt until he surpasses that rank with us.

way i figure it, somebody else granted that rank and it's not my place to ask them not to wear it.

most of our child students wear the old rank.  most of the adults wear their rank in our system.


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## Stooooo (Oct 27, 2006)

Thank you everyone for your words of advice.  The funny thing is I have been wearing my old belt (from TKD), but it just didn't fit me right.  Last time I wore it I was in highschool.  It was almost as if it (the belt) was telling me something.  Thus, I asked the question here.  I'm hoping I can find the white belt that came with my new gi.  

All the best,
Stu


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## HKphooey (Oct 27, 2006)

Stooooo said:


> Thank you everyone for your words of advice. The funny thing is I have been wearing my old belt (from TKD), but it just didn't fit me right. Last time I wore it I was in highschool. It was almost as if it (the belt) was telling me something. Thus, I asked the question here. I'm hoping I can find the white belt that came with my new gi.
> 
> All the best,
> Stu


 
Then definitely go with the larger white belt.  Very slimming.  Heck that is why I wear a size 8 black belt.  Give me room to grow!


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## kingkong89 (Oct 27, 2006)

in my dojo when one gets their black the only thing that is on it is theri names in english and japanese.:rules: :biggun: :yinyang: :bow:  :karate: verkill:


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## Stooooo (Oct 28, 2006)

HKphooey said:


> Then definitely go with the larger white belt. Very slimming. Heck that is why I wear a size 8 black belt. Give me room to grow!


 
Thank you everyone for the advice.  I found the white belt that came with my gi and it fit perfectly.  It's a size 6.  Thank you everyone for opening my eyes.

All the best,
Stu


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## Stooooo (Nov 5, 2006)

Hey Guys,

I thought I would give an update.  I attended class wearing my new white belt.  The head instructor made a comment about demoting myself, but I could see by the look on his face he was impressed.

The other instructor as I was leaving class, made a comment about how it was a good move by me for wearing my white belt.  He said I earned his respect, just by doing something so simple.  Another black belt in the class echoed his opinion saying it was a class move.

Thanks again for the advice.

All the best,
Stu


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## Kacey (Nov 5, 2006)

Congratulations on your decision - not everyone would decide so well.  Someday, when I have time (read, when I'm out of grad school) I want to pick up another art, and I intend to start as a white belt as well, even after 20 years of TKD.  You set a fine example for the rest of us to follow.


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## exile (Nov 5, 2006)

Hi Stu, good move and good outcome. Just by doing that you told your instructors several things about yourself that it's really good for them to know: that you respect your new school, your classmates, and them; that you aren't petty or vain, and that you trust them to see you MA competence without having to have the public verification. All of those are qualities that warm any instructor's heart, believe me!


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## IWishToLearn (Nov 6, 2006)

I'm with Exile on this one. Good form.


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