# Your Opinions on Guardian Angels Arrest & Control Videos



## PeterSteeves (Oct 16, 2011)

I've posted up some free training videos for the Guardian Angels, particularly aimed at the topic of Arrest & Control. 
Note: That means they do NOT feature anything I'd call "Self Defense" or "Defensive Tactics" which may make them a little less exciting, but hopefully useful.

I would appreciate any feedback I can get from the assembled minds here on this forum about how to make them better:Missing topics
Unclear instruction
etc.​
So, even though you'll have to make a membership (by email address) to watch them, I've created them as a service to this non-profit organization. They go unarmed into a lot of tough situations, and the founder discussed the need for a basic systematic approach to this basic topic, so that traveling members would be able to be productive right away in a new city, patrolling with members they don't normally work with.

Please keep this thread off the topic of opinions of the group (they're really a love-hate entity, it seems). I'd really appreciate some feedback on how to help the group quickly learn a basic set of skills.

If that works for you, please head on over and make yourself a log-in ID:
www.GuardianAngelTraining.com

Thanks in advance for the feedback and advice,

Peter Steeves


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## Buka (Oct 16, 2011)

Setting aside any opinion as to what might or might not be viable, legal or practical for their organization via video training or as a means of recruitment advertising, I'll just focus on the videos themselves.  But first - I know where you're coming from, I know you want to help, and I am not judging your skills or knowledge, but you need a lot longer segment of videos. 

In your "Interview position" vid, I feel you need to show what comes from that position, and what training methods might be used to help students understand the various attacks, or push away/disengages that come from that particular interview stance. If the vid is meant as a "teaser", okay, cool, I get it. But I think you should expound on that teaser more.

In the "Startle-Flinch" vid, you (IMO) should go into the aspects of the Hicks Hyman Law and all aspects of the startle flinch response. I know that takes some time, and people tend to have short attention spans, especially when watching videos, but I feel you need a base for them to start so they know what you mean by that title. Also, I don't know what liability issues are in play here, and they can mean a lot, but if you're going to do "startle-flinch" (again, IMO) you should go into forearm to brachial stun. Without it, it kind of defeats the whole purpose of startle/flinch.

The last three vids, are just WAY too short. Again, if they are meant as teasers, okay, I get the point. But if that's the case, you have to lead them to where they might find a pay off.


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## PeterSteeves (Oct 17, 2011)

Buka, thanks for the ideas. Indeed, I'm making an attempt to keep this as simple as possible, giving enough room for trainers of various skill and knowledge levels to add drills and concepts. Perhaps in many cases I've gone a little too far in the simplification? Quite possible.

I'm keeping this as low-level force as I can, as this base training will be implemented in various corners of the world - some of those places will allow much more force, and some perhaps even less (though I've tried to make this pretty darn reasonable so far). The idea of adding the brachial stun is indeed an obvious one, and I agree that it's super useful here ... but I'd prefer that if it's going to be in training, it will come from a trainer in a given geographical location, in accordance with their local laws. I can't really have a universal standard that might get somebody in trouble, which makes a lot of this very limiting.

Did you get to see more than the "Contact" role? There are more ideas presented in "Cover" and in the "General" section. Your feedback so far is awesome, and I'd certainly welcome more, if you're willing and have the chance.

Anybody else have some feedback to offer?


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## Buka (Oct 18, 2011)

Pete, I hadn't looked at all the vids you had posted before, but I just did now. Spent a bit of time with them.
First off, I don't envy you, it's a tough task. And I don't care who posts a vid, they are static in nature and anyone can pot shot them to pieces. And I can only imagine the liability concerns involved with everything you do. (Oy!)
I don't know if that's you on the vid demonstrating the techniques, but whoever it is I find him likable and easy to listen to. That can be a huge plus. 

I don't know a lot about the Guardian Angels, other than they've been around for what seems like forever. I was a cop, but never once had any contact with them. None of my men did either, so I have no experience with any of this. (probably best to keep that in mind.) And, as you said, techniques, or basic strategies, will come from trainers in various locations.

I don't know how much help I can be, it's just so hard to speak from the outside watching a few vids. But I'll share a bit from the past. I taught a few VFAS (Violent Fugitive Arrest Squads) in my day. (but this is the internet so you shouldn't believe that) and as I'm sure anyone can tell you, NOTHING works in the street the way it did in class. There's just too many variables. 

So.....to just nit pick here and there - In the "leg fold manipulation" what we found worked the best (after TOO many violent arrests) was the "second officer in" diving to the ground and wrapping his arms and legs around the suspects legs. It takes away his base, and any power he might utilize from his lower body. The second officer in never likes this, as many times his face ends up near the suspect's ***, and you never know what might be in his pockets (needles), but it works really well. BUT ONLY if the other officer (or officers) has some control over the suspect's upper body. Otherwise you take some shots from above.
In the leg fold part - we found that gripping the toes of the shoe works best. Even though in the vid it's the use of the officer's (Angel) hip that applies to the foot, we found that violent/crazy folks have the strength to push away, sliding their body forward away from that hip grip. If the pressure is applied to the front part of the foot (toes inside the shoe/boot/sneaker) they couldn't push away, at least in the many times we did it. That's not to say it couldn't happen. (And, yes, you have to really crank them)

As for handcuffing, I'm not even going to go there. It's really hard to handcuff someone who doesn't want to be handcuffed. They never liked when I said that at academies, but that's the way it is.

I'll gladly offer opinions I have on any specifics you might have, but they are only that, opinions.


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## PeterSteeves (Oct 19, 2011)

Thanks again - that's very helpful.

Anyone else have helpful criticism or advice?


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## jks9199 (Oct 19, 2011)

Well... I tried to sign up, but have never received the confirmation.  That might be a problem...


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