# Taking time off to heal



## Orion Nebula (Jun 4, 2019)

I sustained my first karate injury... bursitis in my right knee. I learned Heian Godan a week and a half ago and the jump did quite a job on my knee. There was no pain during class, but I could tell something was up as soon as class was over. The next day I could barely bend my knee, the pressure was so great. The swelling and pressure went down a lot, but I can't do any sort of stance without a lot of pressure and discomfort, and certain movements cause me pain.

The doc told me to stop doing kicks and anything that could twist my knee for a few weeks and avoid jumps for the foreseeable future. My sensei agrees of course, and also hooked me up with a cold therapy machine to use on my knee. I won't be back in class until I can do a front stance without discomfort. I'm hoping I'll be able to do that by Friday, but I still won't be kicking for a bit. 

For those of you who had injuries that took you away from the dojo, how did you keep yourself from going nuts?


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## Buka (Jun 4, 2019)

It’s a matter of perspective. You now focus on your hands.  How serious you focus is up to you.

But I have faith in you.


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## Gerry Seymour (Jun 4, 2019)

Orion Nebula said:


> I sustained my first karate injury... bursitis in my right knee. I learned Heian Godan a week and a half ago and the jump did quite a job on my knee. There was no pain during class, but I could tell something was up as soon as class was over. The next day I could barely bend my knee, the pressure was so great. The swelling and pressure went down a lot, but I can't do any sort of stance without a lot of pressure and discomfort, and certain movements cause me pain.
> 
> The doc told me to stop doing kicks and anything that could twist my knee for a few weeks and avoid jumps for the foreseeable future. My sensei agrees of course, and also hooked me up with a cold therapy machine to use on my knee. I won't be back in class until I can do a front stance without discomfort. I'm hoping I'll be able to do that by Friday, but I still won't be kicking for a bit.
> 
> For those of you who had injuries that took you away from the dojo, how did you keep yourself from going nuts?


When I had my knee surgery back in 2001(?), I put in a lot of "bench time". At the old dojo, there's a bench for visitors. I'd sit there with my notebook and just watch, observe, look for things people did differently than me. I analyzed a lot and listened to how students explained things to each other (to find new ways to say things, and to see what they were misunderstanding). That was some of the most valuable time I spent at the dojo.

Once I could safely go on the mats (knee was stable enough, and bent enough to allow somewhat normal walking), I got back on the mats and just did what I could. I couldn't strike any proper stances, so I avoided anything that really depended on them. I mostly did standing work (hand/arm strikes, nearly stationary sparring, standing locks), but there were a few throws I could do, as long as my partner didn't mind that I couldn't take the fall yet. I'd figure out what stance and position worked best of what was available to me, regardless of how it's "supposed" to be done. That helped me a lot in understanding the importance of the structure in stances...as well as how unimportant the exact stance is in most cases.


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## Xue Sheng (Jun 4, 2019)

Focus on things that do not effect the knee. Let the knee heal, do not push it, if you do push it, take it from one who has pushed it when he should not, you will regret it later. For me, knee surgery on Thursday.I will be focusing on internal work for a few weeks; qigong, meditation, etc.


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## spidersam (Jun 4, 2019)

Orion Nebula said:


> I sustained my first karate injury... bursitis in my right knee. I learned Heian Godan a week and a half ago and the jump did quite a job on my knee. There was no pain during class, but I could tell something was up as soon as class was over. The next day I could barely bend my knee, the pressure was so great. The swelling and pressure went down a lot, but I can't do any sort of stance without a lot of pressure and discomfort, and certain movements cause me pain.
> 
> The doc told me to stop doing kicks and anything that could twist my knee for a few weeks and avoid jumps for the foreseeable future. My sensei agrees of course, and also hooked me up with a cold therapy machine to use on my knee. I won't be back in class until I can do a front stance without discomfort. I'm hoping I'll be able to do that by Friday, but I still won't be kicking for a bit.
> 
> For those of you who had injuries that took you away from the dojo, how did you keep yourself from going nuts?



I had an injured hamstring for about six weeks earlier this year. In that time, I improved on the punching bag and speedbag, upped my push-ups and pull-ups game, developed a stronger core, and improved my back flexibility (backbends). It’s better to look at it as an opportunity. I also used that time to do some reading on techniques and watched tutorial videos. Now is the arms time to shine. Once your knee is all healed up, kicks will be like getting back on a bicycle so don’t worry about losing skill.


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## Yokozuna514 (Jun 4, 2019)

Orion Nebula said:


> I sustained my first karate injury... bursitis in my right knee. I learned Heian Godan a week and a half ago and the jump did quite a job on my knee. There was no pain during class, but I could tell something was up as soon as class was over. The next day I could barely bend my knee, the pressure was so great. The swelling and pressure went down a lot, but I can't do any sort of stance without a lot of pressure and discomfort, and certain movements cause me pain.
> 
> The doc told me to stop doing kicks and anything that could twist my knee for a few weeks and avoid jumps for the foreseeable future. My sensei agrees of course, and also hooked me up with a cold therapy machine to use on my knee. I won't be back in class until I can do a front stance without discomfort. I'm hoping I'll be able to do that by Friday, but I still won't be kicking for a bit.
> 
> For those of you who had injuries that took you away from the dojo, how did you keep yourself from going nuts?


Sorry to hear, Orion Nebula.   I am actually in the same boat as you are.  Injured my knee just over a week ago (strained MCL).   I took the week off and have been on RICE.  Also went to an Osteopath who freed up the compressed soft tissue and realigned the knee.  Been wearing a compression bandage during the day and decided to try it out on Sunday.  Seemed to be ok for kata so I put it to the test last night for a couple of classes.  There were a few dicey moments but I seem to be on the road to recovery.   The key, as your doc said, is to rest the joint.  

When you get back to training, speak with your Sensei about modifying the jump portion of the kata so that you do not go down to a crouch when performing Heien Godan.   Although I can still do the kata that way, I typically do the modified version in class to save my knees from the strain.  

By the way, my injury was just a slight sprain of the MCL which made my knee feel 'loose'.   No pain and no swelling, just not stable.  It sounds like yours is worse so make sure you take off enough time so that it can heal properly.   In the meantime, 'planking' is your friend (any core work really).   Good luck.


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## Orion Nebula (Jun 4, 2019)

gpseymour said:


> When I had my knee surgery back in 2001(?), I put in a lot of "bench time". At the old dojo, there's a bench for visitors. I'd sit there with my notebook and just watch, observe, look for things people did differently than me. I analyzed a lot and listened to how students explained things to each other (to find new ways to say things, and to see what they were misunderstanding). That was some of the most valuable time I spent at the dojo.
> 
> Once I could safely go on the mats (knee was stable enough, and bent enough to allow somewhat normal walking), I got back on the mats and just did what I could. I couldn't strike any proper stances, so I avoided anything that really depended on them. I mostly did standing work (hand/arm strikes, nearly stationary sparring, standing locks), but there were a few throws I could do, as long as my partner didn't mind that I couldn't take the fall yet. I'd figure out what stance and position worked best of what was available to me, regardless of how it's "supposed" to be done. That helped me a lot in understanding the importance of the structure in stances...as well as how unimportant the exact stance is in most cases.



Great advice! We do have some chairs at the dojo so I can spend some time this week observing. It's also nice to know that shoddy stances aren't the end of the world, and that's a great perspective to use the limited stances as a way to study the importance/unimportance of stance.



Xue Sheng said:


> Focus on things that do not effect the knee. Let the knee heal, do not push it, if you do push it, take it from one who has pushed it when he should not, you will regret it later. For me, knee surgery on Thursday.I will be focusing on internal work for a few weeks; qigong, meditation, etc.



That's rough - good luck on your surgery! I'm grateful that I didn't hurt my knee too bad and that rest and ice are mainly what I need. 



Buka said:


> It’s a matter of perspective. You now focus on your hands.  How serious you focus is up to you.
> 
> But I have faith in you.





spidersam said:


> I had an injured hamstring for about six weeks earlier this year. In that time, I improved on the punching bag and speedbag, upped my push-ups and pull-ups game, developed a stronger core, and improved my back flexibility (backbends). It’s better to look at it as an opportunity. I also used that time to do some reading on techniques and watched tutorial videos. Now is the arms time to shine. Once your knee is all healed up, kicks will be like getting back on a bicycle so don’t worry about losing skill.



You're both right - it is an opportunity to focus on my hands, arms, and core. Thanks for the reminder. 



Yokozuna514 said:


> Sorry to hear, Orion Nebula.   I am actually in the same boat as you are.  Injured my knee just over a week ago (strained MCL).   I took the week off and have been on RICE.  Also went to an Osteopath who freed up the compressed soft tissue and realigned the knee.  Been wearing a compression bandage during the day and decided to try it out on Sunday.  Seemed to be ok for kata so I put it to the test last night for a couple of classes.  There were a few dicey moments but I seem to be on the road to recovery.   The key, as your doc said, is to rest the joint.
> 
> When you get back to training, speak with your Sensei about modifying the jump portion of the kata so that you do not go down to a crouch when performing Heien Godan.   Although I can still do the kata that way, I typically do the modified version in class to save my knees from the strain.
> 
> By the way, my injury was just a slight sprain of the MCL which made my knee feel 'loose'.   No pain and no swelling, just not stable.  It sounds like yours is worse so make sure you take off enough time so that it can heal properly.   In the meantime, 'planking' is your friend (any core work really).   Good luck.



Sorry to hear about your injury! I don't know if mine is necessarily worse. Maybe just different. It's certainly a pain not being able to really bend my knee much, though. I had a chat with my head sensei the other night and we decided it's best for me to not do any jumps anymore. I suppose I'll modify the kata and do a turning step instead. I've seen the kata done that way on YouTube and it looks all right. We can probably reevaluate that policy when I've lost some more weight. I'm down 30 pounds from when I started four months ago, but I have a long way to go before I'll be in a normal weight range. The doc also said that doing jumps like that isn't a good idea for someone of my size. It's kind of a bummer because jumps are fun, but better to have fun later than trash my knees now.

Onward to core work!


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## Danny T (Jun 4, 2019)

Injuries are a great chance to work as an injured person. After knee surgery I trained in a wheelchair and then on crutches, and with a cane. Never ideal but was training and learned how to do help train others who live in a wheelchair or with a cane. Think out the box, have fun. You'll get an appreciation of what people who are invalid go through.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Jun 4, 2019)

Honestly, when im injured i talk more on here. Ill also see what i can do (meditation, bagwork, forms, not utilizing the injured likb) that doesnt interfere with my injury


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## Gerry Seymour (Jun 4, 2019)

kempodisciple said:


> Honestly, when im injured i talk more on here. Ill also see what i can do (meditation, bagwork, forms, not utilizing the injured likb) that doesnt interfere with my injury


Fortunately, when I'm injured I don't really talk more on here. I don't think the servers could take it.


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## dvcochran (Jun 4, 2019)

Sorry to hear about the injury. The "itis" brothers can be a real pain. Look up a list of the anti-inflammatory foods (turmeric, beets, ginger, blueberries, etc...). They do help me. As with others, I have used downtime to work on other areas. I don't know your level but if you have/need any upcoming papers to write, this is a great time to get started. Get inspired by setting in on classes. It is amazing what you will learn when you mind is not focused on what your body is doing. 
It will likely be an interim need to modify your stance on the weaker side, at least shorten it. I found long sets of working my stances as good rehab. Once the doc says you are good to go, don't go nuts. I find I have up & down periods with my knees. When I am feeling froggy I go hard. When they are bothering me I back off. Not saying that as a recommendation, just my reality. The point is there will be a process to full recovery which I hope is quick. 
Keep us in the loop and let us know how it goes.


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## _Simon_ (Jun 5, 2019)

Ah that's a bugger about the injury, sorry to hear!

Some really great advice above! I had an ankle injury late last year/early this year and I was on crutches for a month before some difficult rehab. All I can say is take your time, and don't push too hard or quickly to recover. Let the body heal and it'll be well worth it. Re-injuring is not fun.. so it'll be a good chance to work on patience. And when it comes time to rehab ease into it, but be diligent and consistent with it.

And it's okay to feel disappointed and discouraged, all a part of it, but yeah like the others said, it's a great opportunity to work on other areas. I even managed to prop my injured leg up on a chair and still do my kicks with the other leg haha.

I've also found with every injury I've had, I delve into learning as much as I can about the particular area, and come out of it with such a respect and so much more knowledge about the body, how to look after it, and even just anatomy-wise I learn alot.

I did go a bit nuts at times haha, but training the things that I could, watching MA vids, reading, chatting on this lovely forum all helped too. Don't be a stranger!

Hope you heal up real nicely


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## Orion Nebula (Jun 5, 2019)

dvcochran said:


> Sorry to hear about the injury. The "itis" brothers can be a real pain. Look up a list of the anti-inflammatory foods (turmeric, beets, ginger, blueberries, etc...). They do help me. As with others, I have used downtime to work on other areas. I don't know your level but if you have/need any upcoming papers to write, this is a great time to get started. Get inspired by setting in on classes. It is amazing what you will learn when you mind is not focused on what your body is doing.
> It will likely be an interim need to modify your stance on the weaker side, at least shorten it. I found long sets of working my stances as good rehab. Once the doc says you are good to go, don't go nuts. I find I have up & down periods with my knees. When I am feeling froggy I go hard. When they are bothering me I back off. Not saying that as a recommendation, just my reality. The point is there will be a process to full recovery which I hope is quick.
> Keep us in the loop and let us know how it goes.



Unfortunately I'm at the beginner level, so there are no papers in sight that I can work on, but that's a good idea for any future downtime. 

I have been munching on some anti-inflammatory foods. Not sure if they helped much. I think the biggest help has been the cold therapy machine. Ice packs weren't too effective, but once I started using the machine, the swelling and pressure really dropped. I'm actually quite surprised that today I have almost no pressure in my knee when I bend it, but there's still some pain. However, I can do a shortened front stance without issue, but I'm not quite willing to try doing some stance work for another day or two.



_Simon_ said:


> Ah that's a bugger about the injury, sorry to hear!
> 
> Some really great advice above! I had an ankle injury late last year/early this year and I was on crutches for a month before some difficult rehab. All I can say is take your time, and don't push too hard or quickly to recover. Let the body heal and it'll be well worth it. Re-injuring is not fun.. so it'll be a good chance to work on patience. And when it comes time to rehab ease into it, but be diligent and consistent with it.
> 
> ...



Haha, one of my first thoughts after my knee swelled up was "maybe I can just do kicks with the other leg..." I'm definitely feeling a little discouraged just because I was working on improving my round kick, and while it is way better than when I started, it's still not up to snuff. I was hoping that once my college classes are done this week, I could increase my training and get it (and other things) looking really good for the next exam in the summer. We'll see what happens. There's always the fall exam. 

I actually haven't been prescribed any rehab because it's not *that* bad, but I was warned to take it easy while I recover or I'll end up needing it. I'm also supposed to avoid kneeling for a while, and it's surprisingly hard not to kneel in my everyday life. I didn't realize I was on my hands and knees so much around the house.


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## Gerry Seymour (Jun 5, 2019)

Orion Nebula said:


> Unfortunately I'm at the beginner level, so there are no papers in sight that I can work on, but that's a good idea for any future downtime.
> 
> I have been munching on some anti-inflammatory foods. Not sure if they helped much. I think the biggest help has been the cold therapy machine. Ice packs weren't too effective, but once I started using the machine, the swelling and pressure really dropped. I'm actually quite surprised that today I have almost no pressure in my knee when I bend it, but there's still some pain. However, I can do a shortened front stance without issue, but I'm not quite willing to try doing some stance work for another day or two.
> 
> ...


We kneel and crouch much more than we think about, in my experience.


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## JR 137 (Jun 5, 2019)

gpseymour said:


> We kneel and crouch much more than we think about, in my experience.


Whenever something’s hurt, we find out how many things are actually connected to it and how often we do things we didn’t think about. It’s like every injury has a huge bullseye on it.


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## Gerry Seymour (Jun 6, 2019)

JR 137 said:


> Whenever something’s hurt, we find out how many things are actually connected to it and how often we do things we didn’t think about. It’s like every injury has a huge bullseye on it.


And if it hurts a long time, it's amazing the compensations we can make. I just noticed this week that I grip with my left foot when I step - a habit of protecting the big toe from bending. So now I have to teach myself to walk normally.


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## dvcochran (Jun 6, 2019)

gpseymour said:


> We kneel and crouch much more than we think about, in my experience.


Because I can no longer crouch at all and can only kneel on one knee , you would be amazed how good I have gotten at getting up and down from setting on my butt. If I have to get in a control panel for any length of time I usually end up on my butt. I am used to it now, but definitely something you take for granted until you can no longer do it.


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## Orion Nebula (Jun 8, 2019)

Well, I headed back to class tonight. My knee (or I guess the bursa around the knee cap) is still a bit swollen, but I've regained most of my range of motion in my knee and I'm not having any pain anymore. We had a good class. I did a few extremely gentle front kicks just to get my legs moving, but in general skipped any kicks and did something else. I started out with shallow stances, but found that I could go a little deeper once I was warmed up. We'll see tomorrow if that was a smart move or not, but so far, the knee feels good. 

It definitely felt good to be moving again. I've spent the last two weeks mostly sitting on my butt with the cold machine strapped to my leg every few hours. I did a lot of stretching and core stuff on Wednesday which was good, but it's not quite the same.


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## _Simon_ (Jun 8, 2019)

Orion Nebula said:


> Well, I headed back to class tonight. My knee (or I guess the bursa around the knee cap) is still a bit swollen, but I've regained most of my range of motion in my knee and I'm not having any pain anymore. We had a good class. I did a few extremely gentle front kicks just to get my legs moving, but in general skipped any kicks and did something else. I started out with shallow stances, but found that I could go a little deeper once I was warmed up. We'll see tomorrow if that was a smart move or not, but so far, the knee feels good.
> 
> It definitely felt good to be moving again. I've spent the last two weeks mostly sitting on my butt with the cold machine strapped to my leg every few hours. I did a lot of stretching and core stuff on Wednesday which was good, but it's not quite the same.


That's awesome to hear, would feel so great to get to class again  good on ya!


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## JP3 (Jun 8, 2019)

Orion Nebula said:


> For those of you who had injuries that took you away from the dojo, how did you keep yourself from going nuts?


Visualization.  

I'll explain. I screwed up my shoulder and had to have it operated on. Judo practice was ruled out by the surgeon for some reason, so I was in a similar situation and not wanting to go nuts.

My Aikido teacher suggested that I visualize myself in class, go through the entire class in my imagination. He meant aikido class, but I used it for judo as well. It worked, and through the practice stumbled into the same sort of visualization type of practice used by lots of professional & Olympic atheletes.  It worked well for me to bridge the gap while I was healing up.


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## Gerry Seymour (Jun 8, 2019)

JP3 said:


> Visualization.
> 
> I'll explain. I screwed up my shoulder and had to have it operated on. Judo practice was ruled out by the surgeon for some reason, so I was in a similar situation and not wanting to go nuts.
> 
> My Aikido teacher suggested that I visualize myself in class, go through the entire class in my imagination. He meant aikido class, but I used it for judo as well. It worked, and through the practice stumbled into the same sort of visualization type of practice used by lots of professional & Olympic atheletes.  It worked well for me to bridge the gap while I was healing up.


Good point. I completely forgot about that, though it's something I use all the time. There's some good science backing up the practice, too.


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## JP3 (Jun 8, 2019)

gpseymour said:


> Good point. I completely forgot about that, though it's something I use all the time. There's some good science backing up the practice, too.


Yes, I've recently got very interested in neuroplasticity, epigenetics, psychoimmunology... all that stuff. Very interesting how all of that works together.  I started off by reading Dr. Joe Dispenza's book, Breaking the Habit of Being Yourself. Very good read. He goes into visualization quite a bit, including people who got physically stronger by visualizing lifting weights, and not actually physically performing the exercise. Published scientific papers back that up.


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## Gerry Seymour (Jun 9, 2019)

JP3 said:


> Yes, I've recently got very interested in neuroplasticity, epigenetics, psychoimmunology... all that stuff. Very interesting how all of that works together.  I started off by reading Dr. Joe Dispenza's book, Breaking the Habit of Being Yourself. Very good read. He goes into visualization quite a bit, including people who got physically stronger by visualizing lifting weights, and not actually physically performing the exercise. Published scientific papers back that up.


Yeah, there was a study I read some years ago that used running visualization. And I think there was another that used a specific basketball skill, but I've either made that one up or forgotten every detail involved.


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## JP3 (Jun 9, 2019)

gpseymour said:


> Yeah, there was a study I read some years ago that used running visualization. And I think there was another that used a specific basketball skill, but I've either made that one up or forgotten every detail involved.


You visualized it.


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## JR 137 (Jun 9, 2019)

gpseymour said:


> Yeah, there was a study I read some years ago that used running visualization. And I think there was another that used a specific basketball skill, but I've either made that one up or forgotten every detail involved.


I’ve seen this visualization being attempted before...


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## Gerry Seymour (Jun 9, 2019)

JP3 said:


> You visualized it.


Well played.


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## Orion Nebula (Jun 12, 2019)

I had another good class on Monday. The knee still has a little pressure in it, but I can move pretty good now. We had a few visitors from another dojo and did a lot of sparring and sparring drills. It's nice to spar with new people. One in particular gave me a lot of good advice to improve my skills, particularly my foot work. 

Now that the pressure has gone down in my knee, I'm having a little bit more pain. Not constant or sharp pain, but just some dull soreness at different times throughout the day. So I decided to look up some stretches and exercises for knee bursitis and do them. It made a big difference. Wish I knew about them sooner! I'm beginning to wonder if maybe the doc underestimated the injury a bit, because a PT session probably would have been beneficial to teach me some of these. 



gpseymour said:


> Good point. I completely forgot about that, though it's something I use all the time. There's some good science backing up the practice, too.





JP3 said:


> Yes, I've recently got very interested in neuroplasticity, epigenetics, psychoimmunology... all that stuff. Very interesting how all of that works together.  I started off by reading Dr. Joe Dispenza's book, Breaking the Habit of Being Yourself. Very good read. He goes into visualization quite a bit, including people who got physically stronger by visualizing lifting weights, and not actually physically performing the exercise. Published scientific papers back that up.



As a scientist, I am always happy to hear about techniques backed by scientific studies. That's really bizarre that people got stronger without actually doing the exercise. I'll have to look up some of that literature. Maybe visualization can make my hips a little more flexible  In all seriousness, though, I am intrigued by the use of visualization to improve my karate. There are things I was very good at as a teen that I just can't seem to do right in my restart. Perhaps some visualization can help me work it out.


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## Gerry Seymour (Jun 12, 2019)

Orion Nebula said:


> I had another good class on Monday. The knee still has a little pressure in it, but I can move pretty good now. We had a few visitors from another dojo and did a lot of sparring and sparring drills. It's nice to spar with new people. One in particular gave me a lot of good advice to improve my skills, particularly my foot work.
> 
> Now that the pressure has gone down in my knee, I'm having a little bit more pain. Not constant or sharp pain, but just some dull soreness at different times throughout the day. So I decided to look up some stretches and exercises for knee bursitis and do them. It made a big difference. Wish I knew about them sooner! I'm beginning to wonder if maybe the doc underestimated the injury a bit, because a PT session probably would have been beneficial to teach me some of these.
> 
> ...


Likely an important part of the process that lead to those strength increases is that part of our limit of strength is neurological. Our system apparently holds back from 100% power to prevent injuries. This is why someone who lifts their 1-rep max every now and then will be significantly stronger than someone who doesn't - their system isn't primed to recognize that large weights are safe to lift. Visualization has been shown to activate many of the same areas of the brain as the activity being visualized. Thus, visualizing lifting likely gives the brain the input needed to relax those safeties a bit.


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## JR 137 (Jun 12, 2019)

gpseymour said:


> Likely an important part of the process that lead to those strength increases is that part of our limit of strength is neurological. Our system apparently holds back from 100% power to prevent injuries. This is why someone who lifts their 1-rep max every now and then will be significantly stronger than someone who doesn't - their system isn't primed to recognize that large weights are safe to lift. Visualization has been shown to activate many of the same areas of the brain as the activity being visualized. Thus, visualizing lifting likely gives the brain the input needed to relax those safeties a bit.


Same thing with punching and striking. Hitting the bag is most likely doing more neurologically than muscularly. Hitting the bag hard, and repeatedly (as in often, not just one “sitting”) will train the neurological system to let go and let the body do its thing. Hit at max power every now and then; it’s good for you


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## JP3 (Jun 13, 2019)

Orion Nebula said:


> I had another good class on Monday. The knee still has a little pressure in it, but I can move pretty good now. We had a few visitors from another dojo and did a lot of sparring and sparring drills. It's nice to spar with new people. One in particular gave me a lot of good advice to improve my skills, particularly my foot work.
> 
> Now that the pressure has gone down in my knee, I'm having a little bit more pain. Not constant or sharp pain, but just some dull soreness at different times throughout the day. So I decided to look up some stretches and exercises for knee bursitis and do them. It made a big difference. Wish I knew about them sooner! I'm beginning to wonder if maybe the doc underestimated the injury a bit, because a PT session probably would have been beneficial to teach me some of these.
> 
> ...


I'm sort of a cynical person by nature about things that seem hocus-pocus... so I feel you on that. However, I really do recommend a read of Dispenza's books, he cites directly to the studies by the scientists & physicians from whom he pulls his model, and assembles it logically & understandably.  It's definitely worth the Audible.com credit to get one or two.


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## Gerry Seymour (Jun 14, 2019)

JP3 said:


> I'm sort of a cynical person by nature about things that seem hocus-pocus... so I feel you on that. However, I really do recommend a read of Dispenza's books, he cites directly to the studies by the scientists & physicians from whom he pulls his model, and assembles it logically & understandably.  It's definitely worth the Audible.com credit to get one or two.


I have some driving coming up next week. Might pick one of those up to add to my listening list.


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## Orion Nebula (Jun 16, 2019)

JP3 said:


> I'm sort of a cynical person by nature about things that seem hocus-pocus... so I feel you on that. However, I really do recommend a read of Dispenza's books, he cites directly to the studies by the scientists & physicians from whom he pulls his model, and assembles it logically & understandably.  It's definitely worth the Audible.com credit to get one or two.



I looked into Dispenza's books on Amazon... interesting topics. They did pique my curiosity, but I'm having trouble getting past the author's credentials. His background is presented in such a vague and nebulous way that I'm not sure he really has any academic background in the topics he's writing about. Granted he doesn't necessarily need a formal education in neuroscience, physics, etc. to understand and apply them, but it feels intentionally misleading. Maybe it's all marketing.

I also saw a few reviews that checked some of his citations and the results were not good. For example, someone pointed out that he cited a satirical journal article as if it was legitimate science. Some others familiar with certain fields said he cherry picked and twisted conclusions from the literature to fit his narrative. So I'm feeling pretty skeptical, but the Kindle versions are cheap enough that I might give one a try to see for myself.


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## JP3 (Jun 16, 2019)

Orion Nebula said:


> I also saw a few reviews that checked some of his citations and the results were not good. For example, someone pointed out that he cited a satirical journal article as if it was legitimate science. Some others familiar with certain fields said he cherry picked and twisted conclusions from the literature to fit his narrative. So I'm feeling pretty skeptical, but the Kindle versions are cheap enough that I might give one a try to see for myself.


I noted some of that, too. But, if you've got an Audible.com account, giving one of the books a read is worth your time, or a discounted Kindle read, that works too.

He Does do a lot of taking this piece from over here, and putting it together with this piece and that one from very different disciplines, and when reading the books there are some times when he makes conclusory statements without bridging from premise to conclusion well. However, in reading all four of the books, I can tell you that, one at least one occasion, I've found the explanation to one conclusion explained in a previous book, so there's that.


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