# Parkour and Ninjutsu



## DuskB4Dawn (Nov 7, 2010)

I was wondering do any of you practice parkour as well as ninjutsu. 
for me they compliment each other perfectly. both focus on efficiency in movement. 
if the ancient ninja of japan time traveled to the modern era they would probley study it so they could move easily through city landscapes


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## Chris Parker (Nov 7, 2010)

I'm honestly not so sure they would, to be frank. Parkour tends more towards bigger actions, and is rather conspicuous to anyone watching (or any guards on the lookout....), so it can actually draw more attention to you than just subtly blending into an environment. The physical skills are impressive, but not really related to Ninjutsu at all when it comes down to it.


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## DuskB4Dawn (Nov 7, 2010)

there is an element of stealth in parkour. 
In parkour you actually run on top of your feet with more balance on the toes. its running but a stealthy type of running. also you are taught to land quitely so that your legs take all the impact. actully all movement should be silent this shows a greater level of control.
plus parkour has alot of climbing and didn't ninja do alot of climbing too since one of thier jobs was castle infiltration?


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## Chris Parker (Nov 7, 2010)

Yes, but the climbing methods are very different. And if you can infiltrate without needing to climb walls (rather hard to talk your way out of things that way....), that's prefered.


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## Supra Vijai (Nov 7, 2010)

I feel like I'm stalking your posts DuskB4Dawn... Parkour is something that I've looked at in the past along with some other students but we were interested in it mainly for the cardio aspect and building core strength, not to use any of it with Ninjutsu. We figured out you can get the same sort of benefits (stronger forearms, better core control, stronger legs) by doing something as simple as rock climbing and it involves less injuries. Trust me doing rolls on concrete is not a lot of fun after a few times. Also from a practical point of view, unless you're aiming to be the next Urban Ninja or Jackie Chan, there's not too much use for the whole climbing of buildings skill. Much the reason why we wouldn't train Shoten No Jutsu in any sort of detail


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## ElfTengu (Nov 7, 2010)

I doubt if there is a better way of moving around an urban environment in a hurry than parkour. If I was 25 years younger I would be well into it.

And if overtly large movements are a problem, this can be worked on as you progress in taijutsu and parkour. Not everything about each pastime will complement the other, but if you enjoy it, why not?

Check out these guys, they mix taijutsu with parkour very well. I don't know if they are still going but they used to have their own website.





 
Put it this way, the ukemi gata of our taijutsu is limited, and the ageing experts of our art will not likely be taking any high speed rooftop traversal classes anytime soon. 

I don't mean to undermine anyone else's advice, but I think we can be unnecessarily dissuasive of our young protegés sometimes.


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## Archangel M (Nov 7, 2010)

A lot to be said for a skill that will enable you to outrun a pursuer. But like everything else, it comes down to how you spend your training time. The time spent perfecting one skill is time you are not spending practicing another. You need to plan your training around...well a PLAN.


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## ElfTengu (Nov 7, 2010)

Archangel M said:


> A lot to be said for a skill that will enable you to outrun a pursuer. But like everything else, it comes down to how you spend your training time. The time spent perfecting one skill is time you are not spending practicing another. You need to plan your training around...well a PLAN.


 
And yet we are always saying how a black belt in track and field is a prerequisite for any self defence programme. 

And running away is not always across flat open spaces.


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## Omar B (Nov 7, 2010)

Ninjutsu and parkour are so philosophically different I find it hard that one would tie the two together at all.  From an energy standpoint, one uses a lot, while the other concentrates on efficiency.


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## Bruno@MT (Nov 8, 2010)

ElfTengu said:


> I don't mean to undermine anyone else's advice, but I think we can be unnecessarily dissuasive of our young protegés sometimes.



I think that noone is dissuading anyone from doing parkour, but merely pointing out that parkour will not have much of an overlap with ninjutsu.


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## DuskB4Dawn (Nov 8, 2010)

Omar B said:


> Ninjutsu and parkour are so philosophically different I find it hard that one would tie the two together at all.  From an energy standpoint, one uses a lot, while the other concentrates on efficiency.



I think that alot of peaple may mistaken parkour with freerunning. freerunning does more acrobatic moves like flips and tricks.
parkour was first developed by the french army as a survival skill for solders in urban inviroments and for spec ops. there is no fancy skills or tricks but the basics are studied in great detail so that all movements are as safe and effective as possible. 

also parkour is not a sport so there is no competitions. it is more of a disipline some actually call it a modern martial art. so the only competition is yourself and you are free to move at your own pace and skill level. 

I have to be honest. there are times when I really struggle to keep up with the youngsters at 27 while most peaple that practice parkour are 14 to 20 tops and sometimes after working 6 days a week to get myself to train once a week is hard. but I consider it part of ninjutsu training. something like endurance training.  I also train in ninjutsu once a week.

I often wake up the next day in pain. and the landing on cement is hard but you do get used to it. If you are getting hurt so much maybe you are doing something wrong. it shouldn't be that dangerous because its not about those death defining stunts that you see on youtube or the movies. parkour has got a bad rep for this kind of publicity but thats not what parkour is all about.


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## Omar B (Nov 8, 2010)

Yes, Parkour is French so the only art I could (tenuously) tie it to is Savate.  As you said you take quite a pounding and hurt a lot the next day.  That is so anti-ninjutsu it's not even funny.  

Don't try to tie the two together because you've seen movies with acrobats claiming to be ninjas are flipping all over the place then landing and doing Kung Fu or TKD or Hapkido.


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## Muawijhe (Nov 9, 2010)

DuskB4Dawn said:


> I was wondering do any of you practice parkour as well as ninjutsu.


 
I do not. I am coming to the sad realization that I am just too old and out of shape to do that kind of thing anymore.



> for me they compliment each other perfectly. both focus on efficiency in movement.


 
Personally, I don't see the compliment between the two. But if you do, and you enjoy both parkour and ninjutsu, go for it. I see a relation between ninjutsu and competative laser tag, but that's just me. 



> if the ancient ninja of japan time traveled to the modern era they would probley study it so they could move easily through city landscapes


 
If the ancient ninja of Japan time traveled, I think parkour and "moving easily through city landscapes" would be the least of their interest. I mean, they're frickin' time travelin' ninja!!! =P


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## ElfTengu (Nov 9, 2010)

If anyone can show me an effortless taijutsu method of leaping a massive distance from one building to another that is superior to free running or parkour then please do. 

Just as BJJ has ten million times better groundwork than we do, so do these guys have better ways of moving across urban lanscapes in a hurry.

Sure we may have tons more techniques of both groundwork than bjj and movement/climbing than parkour, but the difference is that these guys practice theirs a lot more and are therefore a better option than looking to aging shihan for this kind of thing.

Obviously the flashy stuff is superfluous to the taijutsuka but I still think it has a lot to offer.

And yes, I too am too old to get into it now, but would have done so when I was younger, in fact I probably did, I just didn't know it was called parkour!


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## Kumori Ryu Ninja (Jan 2, 2011)

I noticed he asked if any one studies both... I am currently..
I like that the Parkour has the element of urban territory over the wooded areas.. I live in a primarly wooded area, I go into town to free run.. BTW I still consider free running to be Parkour.. I feel a scene of Ninjutsu in the aspect of the parkour. I mean honestly if I had to Defend Discern and or Disappear.. I would do it quickly and would not be worried about stealth. Hell Id probably be yelling for the Cops.. So to say that they can interweave is fine.. Im sure that the training methods put together will still develop your taijutsu and your free running skills... GO FOR IT MAN.. DON'T LET OTHERS HOLD YOU BACK!


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## grav3h3art (Jan 3, 2011)

I do until i injured my knee... U_u

im just starting to train again


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## grav3h3art (Jan 3, 2011)

hapkido moves/ techniques are very similar with the moves used in ninjutsu.


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## Hudson69 (Jan 3, 2011)

Chris Parker said:


> I'm honestly not so sure they would, to be frank. Parkour tends more towards bigger actions, and is rather conspicuous to anyone watching (or any guards on the lookout....), so it can actually draw more attention to you than just subtly blending into an environment. The physical skills are impressive, but not really related to Ninjutsu at all when it comes down to it.



I will agree with this but at the same time there is a school in Colorado Springs, Kashiwa Bujinkan Dojo, that performs a lot of acrobatics that I, not really knowing much about parkour, would seem to follow the line of thought that they mimic each other.


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## Kumori Ryu Ninja (Jan 3, 2011)

Hudson69 said:


> I will agree with this but at the same time there is a school in Colorado Springs, Kashiwa Bujinkan Dojo, that performs a lot of acrobatics that I, not really knowing much about parkour, would seem to follow the line of thought that they mimic each other.



Yes this is true.. Im soon moving to Colorado and Ive spoken with the Kashiwa Dojo Head there... They do involve to acrobatics.. he never mentioned parkour but I feel they a similar in concept..


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## goldwarrior (Jan 28, 2011)

Ninjitsu is the "original" free-running style you could say.   The training nowadays just doesn't focus on those techniques as much.


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## Supra Vijai (Jan 28, 2011)

goldwarrior said:


> Ninjitsu is the "original" free-running style you could say. The training nowadays just doesn't focus on those techniques as much.


 
That's pretty cool but there's just one tiny little problem. I know the OP, he's from the same organisation as I am and we don't train NinjItsu. We train NinjUtsu. Whole different ball game. 

Off topic somewhat but have you ever seen the Simpsons episode when Marge becomes a Cop? They are running around the obstacle course and she struggles to climb the wall when the guy recruits just use the door. Think about it.


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## Supra Vijai (Jan 28, 2011)

Alright my last post sounded like I was hatin on Parkour. Not so, one of my best mates who incidentally also trains Ninjutsu with us has just started Parkour. Not my thing but he enjoys it so all power to him. However the first thing he said after his intro to the class was "Holy S&#t that's way different to ninja! I've got to remember to not pull any of that crap in class lol" Parkour is great at what it is but it's not Ninjutsu. At all.


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## Chris Parker (Jan 29, 2011)

goldwarrior said:


> Ninjitsu is the "original" free-running style you could say. The training nowadays just doesn't focus on those techniques as much.


 
Hmm, yeah, you could say that. Of course, you would be wrong, though.

Free-running and parkour are rather removed from the ideas, concepts, movement, and ideals on Ninjutsu in a number of ways, really, both modern practice and historical usage. The problem comes when people think of popular imagery as being historically based (running, jumping, leaping over things, etc). There are traditional running methods, but they are very removed. There are traditional methods of climbing walls, but they are very far removed. There are ways of scaling buildings both up and down, but they are very far removed.

In the early 80's, Steve Hayes held a Shadows of Iga Festival in the US (one of the first), and sponsored Hatsumi Sensei to come out for it (to teach and observe). There are a number of stories about that time, but the relevant one here is when Hayes had his students demonstrate a method of moving down a cliff/outside a wall, which Hayes had consulted the SWAT forces for how to exactly do it. Hatsumi watched, and told everyone that it was very well done.... then pulled Hayes aside, and explained that the method chosen was rather easy to spot for anyone from the ground, and would have resulted in a simple capture and probable death. Hayes was shattered... he had figured that as he had gotten it from the SWAT team, it must be effective and safe! The problem is, of course, that the SWAT team are part of the police force, and seen as the "good guys", so being spotted isn't such an issue (they're allowed to be there, they're acting in the public good). A Ninja, on the other hand, doesn't have that luxury if attempting to enter somewhere they shouldn't be....

Superficial similarities don't quite cut it, unfortunately. This is why whenever anyone tries to say that Spec Ops, SEALS, CIA etc are "modern Ninja", the responce is usually an immediate "NO THEY'RE NOT!"


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## ElfTengu (Jan 29, 2011)

Yeah, I heard about the mystical method of climbing a wall (using a rope) with your back to the wall so that you can see what's going on around you.

No one should really comment until they have tried it though. 

*Hint* about as feasible as a narrow gauge bamboo breathing tube underwater.


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## Bruno@MT (Jan 30, 2011)

ElfTengu said:


> Yeah, I heard about the mystical method of climbing a wall (using a rope) with your back to the wall so that you can see what's going on around you.
> 
> No one should really comment until they have tried it though.
> 
> *Hint* about as feasible as a narrow gauge bamboo breathing tube underwater.



One of the things Fujita Seiko mentions in his writing was that the first thing he had to learn was to control his breathing so that it was slow and steady, no matter how much he had to exert himself. He trianed this by placing a piece of rice paper in front of his nose, held there by nothing but a bit of spit. If it flew away, he was breathing too hard.

The reasons were several. For one, if you've just climbed a wall and hid yourself inside a castle, it would not do if the people inside heard you breathing loudly. Especially at night when all was supposed to be quiet. Another reason was that it is supposedly hard to suck large volumes of air through a narrow piece of bamboo.


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## ElfTengu (Jan 31, 2011)

Bruno@MT said:


> One of the things Fujita Seiko mentions in his writing was that the first thing he had to learn was to control his breathing so that it was slow and steady, no matter how much he had to exert himself. He trianed this by placing a piece of rice paper in front of his nose, held there by nothing but a bit of spit. If it flew away, he was breathing too hard.
> 
> The reasons were several. For one, if you've just climbed a wall and hid yourself inside a castle, it would not do if the people inside heard you breathing loudly. Especially at night when all was supposed to be quiet. Another reason was that it is supposedly hard to suck large volumes of air through a narrow piece of bamboo.


 
This is fine as long as you are doing your hiding before you have an exhaustive fight/climb/swim/run etc and are not panting with adrenaline/exertion. 

I snore when I am not even completely asleep so I'm not the best person to ask about silent breathing. And when I have led a group of inductees at work up ten flights of stairs to the training/conference facility, I often have trouble breathing at all, let alone silently (and let alone ready to commence a morning of presentations), and this is as much down to nerves as lack of fitness, and these people are not even trying to kill me, they are just trying to get through their first day's 'work' with a new employer, and are probably more nervous than me!

There is a technique for raising the shoulders so that your ribcage doesn't expand and contract quite so obviously, but I don't think there is a technique for stopping people noticing that your shoulders are hunched in a peculiar manner.

As usually there is a lot of theorising on this subject, and whilst I don't doubt that Soke and/or some of the (perhaps younger) shihanke have all the expertise of ninja movement, including climbing, down to a tee, I don't think a group of aging Japanese gentlemen would have an awful lot to offer as far as traversing urban environs at high speed is concerned, compared with a modern free runner or Parkouriste.

But then I wouldn't ask a free runner to help me with my Shinden Fudo ryu!


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## Chris Parker (Feb 1, 2011)

Absolutely.

For the record, breathing through a narrow bamboo tube is not that easy, when starting you begin with a larger diameter tube. Basically, the longer and thinner the tube, the harder it is to breathe through, and the better conditioned your lungs need to be. It comes down to pressure (of the water), as well as the lowered amount of air you can recieve. I do know of one instructor who trained such things till he was able to breathe through a paper straw (less than 1 cm diameter) while immersed underwater. Not easy....


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## Archangel M (Feb 1, 2011)

Eh. I question the validity of anybody who opines on things "tactical" when the odds are slim that they ever applied said techniques in a "real world" scenario. Its easy to be an expert based on theory..scrolls...what my master said...etc.

YMMV.


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