# How effective is this really?



## MusashiMiyamoto (Jun 3, 2009)

Hi. I've been training in Taekwon-do for about three years now, and I've decided I want to learn a second martial art. Since there is a dojo so close by my TKD school, I decided to take up Bujinkan Ninjutsu. I've been to about two classes and I really like it, but I wanted to know what how practical it really is. Has anyone here ever been in a fight and won using it? Even though this is my last year at home before college, I'm the man of the house, and if something happens I want to know that I can protect my family you know? So I want to make sure that what I'm learning will be effective.


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## terryl965 (Jun 3, 2009)

First off Welcome and enjoy the site, we do have a meet and greet section to go and introduce yourself.

Asfar as your question, I will sya this I do not believe any Art is truely bad but bad instructor that jsut do not fully understand everything and try to teach it. The art is great and is a great complement to your TKD training. Remember it is not the training but the person behind the training all the training in the world is worth nothing if you cannot put together the right combinations and know when to walk away. Best of luck in your training.


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## celtic_crippler (Jun 3, 2009)

MusashiMiyamoto said:


> *Hi. I've been training in Taekwon-do for about three years now,* and I've decided I want to learn a second martial art. Since there is a dojo so close by my TKD school, I decided to take up Bujinkan Ninjutsu. I've been to about two classes and I really like it, but I wanted to know what how practical it really is. Has anyone here ever been in a fight and won using it? Even though this is my last year at home before college, *I'm the man of the house, and if something happens I want to know that I can protect my family* you know? *So I want to make sure that what I'm learning will be effective*.


 
You've dedicated 3 years to TKD and don't feel that you have the skills to protect your family?


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## MusashiMiyamoto (Jun 3, 2009)

I'm not sure, which is my main concern. Do I know how to fight after these three years, yes I do. But, am I 100% positive that I could protect them or myself in any given situation? No, not yet. But, I would like to be able to say that, which is why I've taken up another martial art.


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## terryl965 (Jun 3, 2009)

MusashiMiyamoto said:


> I'm not sure, which is my main concern. Do I know how to fight after these three years, yes I do. But, am I 100% positive that I could protect them or myself in any given situation? No, not yet. But, I would like to be able to say that, which is why I've taken up another martial art.


 
But here is where your logic is wrong, no one person can be ready for every stituation 100%. The best we can be is emotional enough to keep our cool in those circumstances. Remember nobody really wins an encounter, we survive them and that is a mind set that all true Martial Artist have.


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## JadecloudAlchemist (Jun 3, 2009)

The Bujinkan like all martial arts will supply you with the blocks needed it is up to you to figure out how to use the blocks to spell out something.


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## yorkshirelad (Jun 3, 2009)

MusashiMiyamoto said:


> I'm not sure, which is my main concern. Do I know how to fight after these three years, yes I do. But, am I 100% positive that I could protect them or myself in any given situation? No, not yet. But, I would like to be able to say that, which is why I've taken up another martial art.


 
I've known some great martial artists, who have practiced for years who couldn't batter a cod. Bujinkan, if taught correctly will give you good self defense skills and if you want to go further, it will give you an appreciation for Japanese martial history. You will not know whether you can truly defend yourself until you are attacked.

Just enjoy your training, don't worry about protecting your family. The odds are that if you live a quiet, respectful life, you'll be ok. Lock your doors at night, teach "stranger danger" to your kids and remeber that prevention is better than a cure.

Enjoy your training.


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## dnovice (Jun 3, 2009)

Cut him some slack guys. He is in high school.

Miyamoto if you interested in seeing how effective your tkd is spar. As for ninjitsu I don't really know anything about. But I wish you luck on your journey!


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## nitflegal (Jun 3, 2009)

From a practicing standpoint, I've found Bujinkan extremely effective, so long as you can find a good teacher.  Living in a wretched neighborhood for several years demonstrated that the awareness and body positioning work quite well, my actual confrontations since I started studying are few but the 3-4 times I've used it (I'm not counting some of the early controlling "tricks" I used in club security) it was effective and gave me the opening to get my precious hide out of there.  

I won't slag TKD but one thing that I do think is a fair comparison is a lot of the Bujinkan I've learned works well when physically degraded where the TKD I studied did not.  Since I've experienced the joys of broken bones, pinched nerves, etc I do like an art where I can use it effectively after I've been degraded either by age or injury.

If you like it, stick with it.  If you don't find something you do like.  One thing that I've found is that if I enjoy the art, I practice more enthusiastically and often and tend to get more proficient faster.

Matt


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## MusashiMiyamoto (Jun 3, 2009)

thanks guys. I think the teacher at the dojo where I train is supposed to be good, so I'll check it out for about a month or so and see what he's like.


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## yorkshirelad (Jun 4, 2009)

dnovice said:


> Cut him some slack guys. He is in high school.
> 
> Miyamoto if you interested in seeing how effective your tkd is spar. As for ninjitsu I don't really know anything about. But I wish you luck on your journey!


 
I haven't read your profile, so I didn't know you were at high school. If I can offer some advice I will say enjoy training and train hard, but do other things also and put school before training. An education is the best way to protect your family. When you are older, your family will be better protected by good health insurance and financial security than your physically trained body, so make school a priority.

One other thing, don't worry too much. Whatever art you study will give you benefit. Just find the right teacher and once you start training, don't stop.

Most people say that they want to protect themselves, but you have told us that you want to protect your family. This shows selflessness. Keep that mindset. The world is a better place for people like you.


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## Bruno@MT (Jun 4, 2009)

yorkshirelad said:


> teach "stranger danger" to your kids and remeber that prevention is better than a cure.
> 
> Enjoy your training.



This is going OT but I wanted to remark: in the vast majority of child abuse, rape, beatings, killings etc... the victim knows the assailant rather well, and the assailant is often in a position of trust : relative, teacher, pastor, ...
Statistically speaking, it's not the strangers you have to worry about.

For example in the case of murder, people are much more likely to be killed by a close relative than by a Ted Bundy type serial killer.
I read a book by Belgian's best trial lawyer for homicide cases, about killers and their motives. In many cases, a killing would not have happened if one of the 2 parties had de-escalated the conflict, or simply remained calm and non-confrontational.

One of the cases was a divorce gone awry. The wife decided to leave the man. They agreed to meet for dividing the loot (so to speak) and she started insulting and belittling him, telling him that he wouldn't see his kids again, etc... And the guy snapped and killed his wife on the spot.
It could easily have been avoided if the wife had remained calm, deescalating, or even had brought a friend.

Cases like these make up the majority of homicides. Teaching about stranger danger is all good and well, but the real danger comes from people closeby.
Stranger danger is taught primarily because it is much easier to imagine the seedy looking pervert in the bushes wanting to hurt you, than the friendly teacher / coach / husband, etc.


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## yorkshirelad (Jun 4, 2009)

Bruno@MT said:


> This is going OT but I wanted to remark: in the vast majority of child abuse, rape, beatings, killings etc... the victim knows the assailant rather well, and the assailant is often in a position of trust : relative, teacher, pastor, ...
> Statistically speaking, it's not the strangers you have to worry about.
> 
> For example in the case of murder, people are much more likely to be killed by a close relative than by a Ted Bundy type serial killer.
> ...


 
Great post :asian:


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## savagek (Jun 9, 2009)

Hello all, 

One of the things taught to me through the Bujinkan method was self protection vs. self defense. 

Self protection is the state of mind that keeps you awake, alert, and aware of situations you would like to avoid. Self defense is the physical act of defending yourself and as stated that is part of the Bujinkan method as well. I have encountered many who pay lip service to not finding yourself in a jam but never giving any real options on how to avoid them. 

Just another outlook on an old question. 

Be well and Gassho, 

Ken Savage 
www.winmartialarts.com


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## BLACK LION (Jun 10, 2009)

MusashiMiyamoto said:


> Hi. I've been training in Taekwon-do for about three years now, and I've decided I want to learn a second martial art. Since there is a dojo so close by my TKD school, I decided to take up Bujinkan Ninjutsu. I've been to about two classes and I really like it, but I wanted to know what how practical it really is. Has anyone here ever been in a fight and won using it? Even though this is my last year at home before college, I'm the man of the house, and if something happens I want to know that I can protect my family you know? So I want to make sure that what I'm learning will be effective.


 
The Bunjinkan assoc here in San Diego has a pretty no nonsense approach to combatives... they also bring in various military entities to enhance training. Acouple weeks ago they brought in an expert on battlefield wounds and how to treat them as well as demoed some combatives whuile wearing body armor.  One of the instructors is active duty military and tied to special operation command.  

Bunjinkan is pretty legit and if I am not mistaken your name is in a book somewhere identifying you as a member.  

This information was given to me by a current member.


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## Hayseed (Jun 23, 2009)

BLACK LION said:


> Bunjinkan is pretty legit and if I am not mistaken your name is in a book somewhere identifying you as a member.



????
Could I get you to elaborate?  I hadn't heard of a "Musashi connection".


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## Ninja_in_training (Jun 27, 2009)

Hey dude,
Good on your for wanting to protect your family !! I have been training Ninjutsu for 6 months now. I work Loss prevention jobs where in making arrests, occasionally, people dont want to come with me and decide to try the fight route. I can tell you first hand that Ninjutsu has given me the skills to end the conflict very fast and effectivly. I cant wait to see how much I learn in this incredible martial art in years to come. Ninjutsu is not for everyone. It is much harder than most martial arts, but it is well worth the training for what you get out of it. But like others have oisted, you must find an instructor who knows the skill well. Good luck in training !!


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## Shinobi Teikiatsu (Jun 27, 2009)

What kind of ninjutsu are you learning, exactly? I remember anyone ever saying that ninjutsu was harder to learn than most arts, in fact my school advertises that anyone can do it, as it requires no strength or speed.


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## Dale Seago (Jul 1, 2009)

BLACK LION said:


> Bunjinkan is pretty legit and if I am not mistaken your name is in a book somewhere identifying you as a member.


 
Hatsumi sensei does keep old koryu-style lineage books/charts, but you'll only be in one if you're 5th dan and above. Before that you have not yet been "born".


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## ElfTengu (Jul 2, 2009)

Dale Seago said:


> Hatsumi sensei does keep old koryu-style lineage books/charts, but you'll only be in one if you're 5th dan and above. Before that you have not yet been "born".


 
Does a white belt signify that you are a sperm then?

And at Shodan am I an embryo or have I advanced to foetus?


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## Dale Seago (Jul 2, 2009)

Shinobi Teikiatsu said:


> . . .in fact my school advertises that anyone can do it, as it requires no strength or speed.


 
While this is sortakinda true, it deserves some qualification where Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu is concerned.

Someone who is fast and strong has an undeniable "natural advantage", which gets multiplied exponentially if he also is armed.

The things we use to neutralize such natural advantages -- the proper way of using the eyes to observe, proper timing, distance, angling/positioning, managing the tactical space, use of combative psychology -- do in fact make BBT take a lot longer to learn and use properly than other arts.

I think it's worth it, though.


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## Hudson69 (Aug 12, 2009)

If you had more time I would say go with the Budo Taijutsu but with less than a year, according to your message, you might want something else. 

I usually get gigged for dogging the Bujinkan but I do in fact really like it.  I just think that it is a very comprehensive system and, strictly from my studies, is too big to be rapidly useful; as compared to American Kenpo (Ed Parker's system), Krav Maga, and Police DeTac.

I have two real suggestions:
1) Take one or two more lessons and if it is not progressing for you, fast enough to where you want to be before you start college then you might want to try something else.

or

2) You could explain to your Bujinkan Instructor what you want and see if he/she can focus on some specific areas as well.  For example there is a Grand Junction, Colorado dojo that is offering Law Enforcement oriented lessons in Denver and Grand Junction that I have heard good things about and it sounds like the instructor there has tailored his system (Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu) for the street fighting that a Police Officer needs so I do not see why yours cannot.

BBT is a good system and like so many others, it takes time and practice to get good at it.  But there are other, more streamlined systems, that can be studied and understood in a much shorter time and are strictly dedicated to practical self defense and not as all, encompassing (if that makes sense).

Have fun, train hard and stay safe.


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