# Secerts of the arts....



## jkd friend (Oct 3, 2006)

These secerts of the arts that are with held from the practitioner are really mind boggling to me. We are told sometimes that they don't exsits and other things to keep are mind away from those thoughts. Some people a killed so to speak in quest of these secerts so my quesion would be are they real and they are real why keep such boundful locks on them?


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## Andrew Green (Oct 3, 2006)

In MMA there is no secret techniques that implode your liver or any of that nonsense.  Everything is out in the open, where it should be.


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## thetruth (Oct 4, 2006)

jkd friend said:


> These secerts of the arts that are with held from the practitioner are really mind boggling to me. We are told sometimes that they don't exsits and other things to keep are mind away from those thoughts. Some people a killed so to speak in quest of these secerts so my quesion would be are they real and they are real why keep such boundful locks on them?



They were secret way back when in more traditional martial arts for a reason.  Either they didn't want westerners to know what they were doing or were hiding techniques from their oppressors (such as in capoiera where they hid the self defence in a dance).  Now days if a western instructor doesn't show you things and says they are hidden he either doesn't know or is a tool and isn't worth training with. :asian:

Cheers
Sam


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## morph4me (Oct 4, 2006)

In my experience all of the "secrets" in the martial arts, any martial arts, are all taught to you very early on, the basics. Students just don't understand them at that point, and would be very disappointed that they are not great mysteries, they are all fairly simple. Simple, but not easy.


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## Odin (Oct 4, 2006)

well ermmm its because if you went around telling everyone then it wouldnt be a secret would it duhhh! ( :


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## Touch Of Death (Oct 4, 2006)

Andrew Green said:


> In MMA there is no secret techniques that implode your liver or any of that nonsense. Everything is out in the open, where it should be.


Actualy I know a tech that will rupture vital organs.
Sean


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## jkd friend (Oct 5, 2006)

Odin said:


> well ermmm its because if you went around telling everyone then it wouldnt be a secret would it duhhh! ( :


 
Well, yeah bbbbbububbbut man! you no what I mean!!!!!!!!!


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## Andrew Green (Oct 5, 2006)

Touch Of Death said:


> Actualy I know a tech that will rupture vital organs.
> Sean



Which leads to the obvious question, How do you know it works?


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## zDom (Oct 5, 2006)

Andrew Green said:


> Which leads to the obvious question, How do you know it works?




Not saying I "know" that it works and I don't train this specific skill, but:

I've seen somebody break only the bottom or a middle brick in a stack of red house bricks by striking the top brick.

I have observed that strikes, depending on their speed, can either "push" or "penetrate."

The above example seems to indicate the ability to transmit force below the surface -- presumably to an inner organ.

So I don't know about "exploding livers," but rupturing an organ seems plausible in this way.

Of course, a hard enough strike can do so. I probably have told this story before, but there was a guy, Roger Stamp, who in the late '70s/early '80s sidekicked another fellow student, last name of Compas (I worked out with his son, Darren) hard enough to dislodge an organ. I think it was his liver.

He turned pale and my instructor, who was there at the time as a student, said he was going to call an ambulance. Mr. Compas said "NO! Don't! I'm OK!"


My instructor said, "If you can stand up, I won't call the ambulance."

He wasn't able to, and the rest is histor....er.. no video tape....

so the rest is "legend."


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## matt.m (Oct 5, 2006)

zDom said:


> Not saying I "know" that it works and I don't train this specific skill, but:
> 
> I've seen somebody break only the bottom or a middle brick in a stack of red house bricks by striking the top brick.
> 
> ...


 

Steve Compass was the guys name.  As a side note, Steve is the only MSK Hapkido honorary black belt given by GM Park to my knowledge.  Anyway, theres more than that that dad could tell you about.  However it would all be considered legend since there is not a video tape record of this stuff. :erg:


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## Rook (Oct 5, 2006)

zDom said:


> Not saying I "know" that it works and I don't train this specific skill, but:
> 
> I've seen somebody break only the bottom or a middle brick in a stack of red house bricks by striking the top brick.
> 
> ...


 
I actually don't find the brick breaking hard to believe.  A magician with no martial arts experiance did the same thing when I was a kid, letting kids from the audience come up one by one and pick a break, and he would break only that one by slapping the top of the appropriate stack.  There are a number of people who do this in order to recruit for their school, and from my understanding, despite Frank Dux being a general fake at everything else, he is apparently able to do this trick with sufficiently brittle bricks.  

It's a far cry from rupturing organs, however.


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## Andrew Green (Oct 5, 2006)

zDom said:


> Not saying I "know" that it works and I don't train this specific skill, but:
> 
> I've seen somebody break only the bottom or a middle brick in a stack of red house bricks by striking the top brick.



Yup, it's a neat trick.  But that's all that it really is, a trick.



> I have observed that strikes, depending on their speed, can either "push" or "penetrate."



True.



> Of course, a hard enough strike can do so. I probably have told this story before, but there was a guy, Roger Stamp, who in the late '70s/early '80s sidekicked another fellow student, last name of Compas (I worked out with his son, Darren) hard enough to dislodge an organ. I think it was his liver.



I believe you, however, this sounds more like a fluke accident then a planned result.  If I am wrong the guy should be charged criminally IMO.  If I am right it proves nothing about strikes being able to reliably explode organs as I have seen all sorts of fluke injuries that would be near impossible to duplicate.


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## zDom (Oct 6, 2006)

Andrew Green said:


> Yup, it's a neat trick.  But that's all that it really is, a trick.



I won't dispute this as I have no personal experience nor knowledge of anybody who does.

I am interested in knowing how this trick is done -- I have no interest in USING this trick, I just want to clear up any misconceptions I may be carrying.

Care to explain how it is done for me for future reference?

FWIW, I've heard that ALL "ice breaking" is a trick as a TRUE block of ice won't break in two pieces even if a sledge hammer is used because of the way molecules line up in frozen water, or whatever, and that these "breaks" are actually accomplished by sawing through with piano wire or something and refreezing the two pieces together.




Andrew Green said:


> I believe you, however, this sounds more like a fluke accident then a planned result.  If I am wrong the guy should be charged criminally IMO.  If I am right it proves nothing about strikes being able to reliably explode organs as I have seen all sorts of fluke injuries that would be near impossible to duplicate.



Definately an accident, not a planned result. I think he simply got carried away.

Side kicks are very powerful (at least the way we practice/execute them at the Moo Sul Kwan).

There is no "trick" to breaking four and five boards (#2 pine, 1 by 12 lumber, sawed off to 12" squares) other than power + focus (hitting exactly where you want to hit).

Hitting people hard during sparring is not the problem, once a student gets the hang of a sidekick. The trick is to keep it controlled and NOT hurt people with it.

So in that sense, a serious injury from a sidekick isn't a "fluke," just physics and physiology.


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## Carol (Oct 6, 2006)

A lot depends on the health of the person as well.  A liver can be diseased for a variety of reasons (many that are self-inflicted).  Its possible for a diseased liver to rupture or fail when taking a strike that a healthy person could have recovered from without incident.


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