# Belt Order



## Kirk (Jul 22, 2002)

In my school, the rank/color order goes as follows:

White, Yellow, Orange, Purple, Blue, Green, 1st Brown, 2nd 
Brown, 3rd Brown, Red, Red/Black, Black.

I know most styles follow a *SIMILAR*  pattern, but what
are they specifically?


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## fist of fury (Jul 22, 2002)

we go by grades there are 12 student grades with belt colors added to make the breakdown easier
white grade 1-3
Yellow grade 4-6
Green  grade 7-9
Red  grade 10-12

you get tabs on your belt to indicate what grade level your at so each color belt has 1-3 tabs depending on where your at.

Then after that is black belt


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## arnisador (Jul 22, 2002)

White, Yellow, Orange, Blue, Green, Purple, 1st Brown, 2nd 
Brown (Red), 3rd Brown (Red/Black) , Black.


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## Despairbear (Jul 22, 2002)

Here is how it goes at my dojo.

5th kyu: White
4th kyu: Blue
3rd Kyu: Blue
2nd Kyu: Brown 
1st Kyu: Brown
Shodan and above: Black




Despair Bear


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## tshadowchaser (Jul 22, 2002)

WE use:

white
yellow 
green
purple
brown
black

Sometime with the younger students we will give stripes on the yellow or green just to let the student know they are learning but without anactual incress in rank other than to make them the highr ranked person in that belt area.
  If a student starts getting a swelled head I remind them that it used to be   white, green, black  and befor that my favorite white and black.


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## Danny (Jul 22, 2002)

ITF ranks goes White Belt, Yellow Stripe, Yellow Belt, Green Stripe, Green Belt, Blue Stripe, Blue Belt, Red Stripe, Red Belt, Black Strip (representing 10th thru 1st Gup), then Black with a roman numeral representing 1st tru 9th Dan.  Also 1st Dans get Black trim on the bottom of there doboks and 4th get black strips down the arms and legs of there doboks.


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## Dronak (Jul 22, 2002)

Interesting differences between the different schools/systems.  I really don't know much on the subject.  We don't have belt/color rankings in the classes I'm taking because it's a traditional Chinese martial art which doesn't use that system.  Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong here, but here's what I heard about where it came from (sorry if everyone in the world has heard this already).  Originally people started with a white belt and over time and lots of practice, it would eventually get darker, probably from sweat and dirt and the like.  So the color rankings came about as an emulation of that.  You start from white and the colors get darker until you reach black.  That's what I'd expect and it looks like that's generally what seems to happen.  I thought I heard something about red belts being reserved as a rank above the highest black belt level and very, very few people in the world had it (like under 10 or something), but I have no idea on what style or anything.  I could be totally wrong on that, but I would be interested in knowing if anyone else knows what I'm talking about there.    I don't know if this really helps, but I thought I'd comment anyway.


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## Cthulhu (Jul 22, 2002)

The Okinawa-te ranking structure as I was taught:

White
Yellow
Purple
Blue
Green
1st Brown
2nd Brown
Black

No degrees of black belt.

Cthulhu


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## Matt Stone (Jul 22, 2002)

Old Style - 

Novice - no sash/belt
Beginner (3 grades) - white sash/belt
Intermediate (3 grades) - yellow sash/belt
Advanced (3 grades) - blue sash/belt
Senior (3 grades) - black sash/belt
Master (3 grades) - red sash/belt

New Style - 

Novice - white sash/belt
Junior (2 grades) - yellow sash/belt
Beginner (2 grades) - blue sash/belt
Intermediate (2 grades) - green sash/belt
Advanced (2 grades) - brown sash/belt
Senior (5 grades) - black sash/belt
Master (3 grades) - red sash/belt

Gambarimasu.

:samurai: :tank: :samurai:


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## karatekid1975 (Jul 22, 2002)

Dronak wrote:

"Originally people started with a white belt and over time and lots of practice, it would eventually get darker, probably from sweat and dirt and the like.  So the color rankings came about as an emulation of that.  You start from white and the colors get darker until you reach black."

Yes. My TSD master told me that story (the reason I don't wash my belts ..... till I got my green in TKD cause it was soooooo stiff). 

Anyways, the belt order in my school goes:

white, white w/yellow stripe, yellow, yellow w/green stripe, green, green w/blue stripe, blue, blue w/brown stripe, brown, brown w/red stripe, red, red w/black stripe, black.

My TSD school belt colors were:

white, orange, green, blue, brown, purple, red, dark blue, black.


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## Kempojujutsu (Jul 22, 2002)

Are ranks go 
White belt
white w/ one red stripe
Yellow
Orange
purple
Blue
Green
1st Brown
2nd Brown
3rd Brown
Black

I have read or heard that old traditional way there was only two ranks white and Black. Some other traditional martial arts used white, green, brown, black. Also that the Americans started using the bright colors you see now in martial arts. One other thing I have heard, not sure if it is true. That the old masters would go back to wearing white belt to represent having learned everything in that particular system.
Bob :asian:


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## Cthulhu (Jul 23, 2002)

From what I was told, Okinawa-te used to have just two belts: white and black, indicating student and instructor respectively.

Then, they went to white, green, and black.

Then, white, green, brown, and black.

Then to the ranking structure I posted earlier.

Cthulhu


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## Yari (Jul 23, 2002)

The Aikido I've praticed has:

White until 3 kyu, were you'r allowed to wear a hakama. You keep the white belt undtil your a black belt. There is some exceptions to this; there are dojo's letting girls were the hakama from day-1, since a gi is a mans underwear.

/Yari


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## knifeman.dk (Jul 23, 2002)

Yachhhyy, you actually took my latest knifeclass in your underwear.  
And i didn´t even take any pictures:rofl: 
see ya
knifeman.dk


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## Yari (Jul 23, 2002)

> _Originally posted by knifeman.dk _
> 
> *Yachhhyy, you actually took my latest knifeclass in your underwear.
> And i didn´t even take any pictures:rofl:
> ...



True, but they weren't white pants, but black. And you should be happy that you don't have pictures of me, or my pants. Even though my pants look good by themselves.....  

Take care

/Yari


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## Kirk (Jul 23, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Dronak _
> 
> *Interesting differences between the different schools/systems.  I really don't know much on the subject.  We don't have belt/color rankings in the classes I'm taking because it's a traditional Chinese martial art which doesn't use that system.  Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong here, but here's what I heard about where it came from (sorry if everyone in the world has heard this already).  Originally people started with a white belt and over time and lots of practice, it would eventually get darker, probably from sweat and dirt and the like.  So the color rankings came about as an emulation of that.  You start from white and the colors get darker until you reach black.  That's what I'd expect and it looks like that's generally what seems to happen.  I thought I heard something about red belts being reserved as a rank above the highest black belt level and very, very few people in the world had it (like under 10 or something), but I have no idea on what style or anything.  I could be totally wrong on that, but I would be interested in knowing if anyone else knows what I'm talking about there.    I don't know if this really helps, but I thought I'd comment anyway. *



So how do you rate yourselves in your class?  If you've studied
for 3 years, and someone walks in the door and starts taking
classes that day, are you in the same class as this person?  Is
there a difinite stopping point to your style?  If you had to move,
how would you tell your new instructor of the same style how
much you knew?  Do you have promotion tests?


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## Dronak (Jul 23, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Kempojujutsu _
> 
> *One other thing I have heard, not sure if it is true. That the old masters would go back to wearing white belt to represent having learned everything in that particular system.*



I've heard about that general concept before, that once you've learned all there is to learn you effectively start over again.  I don't think I had heard about people going back to a white belt though.  However, I think that is the idea with the red belt being after black.  It was meant to show that you had learned all there was to learn and are sort of starting over, but without going back to wearing an actual white belt like the newbies.  *shrug*  I still have no idea where I heard the red after black thing, but I'm pretty sure I did hear it somewhere and it's not something I invented somehow.


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## karatekid1975 (Jul 23, 2002)

When I went from TSD to TKD, I went to the biginners class. But they promoted me faster because of my experience. I had my old certs with me, and I showed them what I knew from day one. I got to green in six months (you are supposed to be white for six months). But I chose to slow down. I'm not in a rush for rank. I just wanna train and be good at what I do.

Anyways, the class I'm in is all white, yellow, and green belts. So if someone walked in right off the street, they'd be in my class. When I go for my blue belt, I'll be in another class. There is only three sets of classes (for adults). The beginners, and advanced, and BB classes. The advanced class has ranks from blue on up.


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## Cthulhu (Jul 23, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Dronak _
> 
> *
> 
> I've heard about that general concept before, that once you've learned all there is to learn you effectively start over again.  I don't think I had heard about people going back to a white belt though.  However, I think that is the idea with the red belt being after black.  It was meant to show that you had learned all there was to learn and are sort of starting over, but without going back to wearing an actual white belt like the newbies.  *shrug*  I still have no idea where I heard the red after black thing, but I'm pretty sure I did hear it somewhere and it's not something I invented somehow.   *



One story a lot of people tell is that from age and abuse, the black belt gets frayed and worn, the dye eventually fading until the belt is white, symbolizing a return to innocence or a new beginning.

This is why you see some people fraying and repeatedly washing their black belts...they want to make it seem as if they've been black belts for a while.

Cthulhu


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## arnisador (Jul 23, 2002)

The whole system was developed by Jigaro Kano for Judo. It went to 12th degree and at higher levels were red and red-white belts. It's now not uncommon in a number of arts to see high-ranking black belts use a red or red-black or red-white belt to indicate that they are very senior--I see it with DKI and SCJJ instructors, for example. Some use red as an underbelt and red-black for an immedaitely pre-black belt level.

I've heard the dirtying white belt before. It makes sense but i don't know if Jigaro Kano ever commented on his motivation in chooisng those colors. I believe colored underbelts is an American invention.


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## Kirk (Jul 23, 2002)

> _Originally posted by arnisador _
> 
> *The whole system was developed by Jigaro Kano for Judo. It went to 12th degree and at higher levels were red and red-white belts. It's now not uncommon in a number of arts to see high-ranking black belts use a red or red-black or red-white belt to indicate that they are very senior--I see it with DKI and SCJJ instructors, for example. Some use red as an underbelt and red-black for an immedaitely pre-black belt level.
> 
> I've heard the dirtying white belt before. It makes sense but i don't know if Jigaro Kano ever commented on his motivation in chooisng those colors. I believe colored underbelts is an American invention. *



Using belts to signify rank, or using belts and rank was 
developed by Jigaro Kano??


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## arnisador (Jul 23, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Kirk _
> 
> *Using belts to signify rank, or using belts and rank was
> developed by Jigaro Kano?? *



The dan/kyu system and associated white, black, and white-and-red/red belts were his. Unless I am much mistaken, colored belts were not used at all prior to Kodokan Judo.


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## Matt Stone (Jul 23, 2002)

This is one of those things that displays a major problem for martial arts in the United States, if not worldwide...

I am not criticizing anyone involved in this thread, nor any one school or association in particular - this is a general purpose rant...

Rant Begins...     :soapbox: 

Those of us involved in MA for reasons known only to ourselves and our Creator hold our respective arts in high esteem, valuing them and their lessons greatly.  One of the things that "sold" me on my system early on was the fact that we were _required_ to learn things about other systems.  Later, I found out that we were _required_ to know other forms of the arts included in our style (Xingyi, Bagua, Taiji) from outside of our style for promotion to senior grades...

However, knowing much about the _truth_ behind martial arts in general, much less about the arts many people study, doesn't seem to get much attention at all...

For example - 

Myths:
- All Chinese martial arts come from Shaolin.
- All karate came from Japan OR all karate is the same.
- Belt ranks have always been used in asian martial arts.
- All Korean martial arts were created in Korea and are ancient and historical in nature.
- All martial arts came from asia.

*Et cetera.*

Truths:
- All Chinese martial arts did _not_ come from Shaolin, and many predate Shaolin by centuries.
- Karate did not arrive in Japan until the 1920s.  Samurai did _not_ practice karate.  Karate was _not_ practiced by farmers in Okinawa.
- Belt ranking was pioneered by the founder of Judo, Jigaro Kano, as a way to prevent heavier, more experienced judoka from outclassing smaller, less experienced judoka during competition.  Colors were added later to more readily identify a person's grade.  Prior to this, there were simply students and teachers (the latter identified solely by their license to teach, issued to them by their instructor, though sometimes even that was absent...)  After time, colored belts were adopted by many schools and styles throughout the world as an easy way to identify different skill levels.
- Many Korean martial arts were imported in the last century to century and a half from other countries.  Tae Kwon Do was originally a bastardized form of Shotokan, brought over in the early part of the 1900s (since Funakoshi didn't bring Shotokan to Japan until the 1920s, TKD couldn't have been created until after that, contrary to the popular beliefs...).
- Every country in the world has had a martial tradition of some sort, and ancient cultures had their forms of martial arts just as did the asian countries - due to the age of said ancient cultures, most forms of these ancient arts died with the cultures in question (e.g. Pankration is _not_ an ancient Greek martial art, but rather the modern recreation of the ancient art based on research done by a man interested in such things - he was already instructor level in another art, and used that training as the framework for recreating Pankration based on what he found out about the ancient practices).

*Et cetera.*

People study for years under misconceptions and errors, become instructors, and propagate the myths and inaccuracies.  Then, because schools of this nature are far more numerous than schools which try to maintain the "truth" of the history behind MA, the bulk of MAists begin to buy the myths as reality, and it becomes those who know the "truth" (not sure that is an accurate word, given the shady nature of MA history in the first place, but it'll have to do) that are the fringe weirdoes...

Go figure.

People everywhere rant and rave about frauds and shysters like Oom Yung Doe and the Chung Moo Quan, Temple Kung Fu, etc.  But there are many schools who tread very close to the boundaries that separate legitimate schools and con artists, and they don't even know it!

Folks need to educate themselves on the histories of their styles.  If they are going to use the native language terms of their style, they need to familiarize themselves with that language.  They need to ask questions, and not stop until they get the right answers.  Only then will we be able to re-invigorate MA overall and help to stomp out the ignorance that is out there...

I'm not ranting about an innocent beginner that simply doesn't know any better...  How could they?  Rather, I am pointing an accusatory finger at the instructors who know their info is lacking and don't care to better themselves (they do a disservice to their students at best by failing to better educate themselves), or who deliberately sell myths and lies in order to safeguard their meal ticket.

Rant Ends...     :soapbox:

Sorry to get so picky, but attention to small things is a mark of professionalism.  One saying I like to remind myself of when I get lazy is "Mastery grows from little things."  If we allow ourselves to be complacent as instructors, satisfied with our knowledge, then we stop growing and begin to creep up to the edge of the abyss of our own ego.  We owe it to our students to be better than that...

Gambarimasu.

:samurai: :tank: :samurai:


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## arnisador (Jul 23, 2002)

I once asked a fifth degree black belt shihan to tell what me the name of his style meant in English. He got all the words but one, and told me he'd have to check on that and get back to me. (He did.) I was surprised he didn't have some idea what the name of his style meant.


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## Matt Stone (Jul 23, 2002)

And there you go...

Guess he isn't such a _shihan_ after all, especially since that connotates a "master teacher."  

Most folks probably wouldn't hold a Master's Degree holder from an accredited university in high esteem if he couldn't explain his field fully, now would they?

There you go...


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## deadhand31 (Jul 24, 2002)

Havent seen my belt system in here yet.... I'm not sure if this is a standard for WTF, but i have seen other schools that teach Ji Do Kwan use it:

White- Symbolizes innocence, the beginning of Tae Kwon Do training.

High White (with yellow tape)

Yellow- Earth, where the seed sprouts, just as the foundation of tae kwon do is being laid.

High Yellow (with green tape)

Green- Growth, as the plant is flourishing, so is the student's knowledge in Tae Kwon Do.

High Green (with blue tape)

Blue- Heaven, towards which the plant grows as it matures into a tree, symbolizing the increasing proficiency in the student's abilities.

High Blue (with red tape)

Red- Danger, as a warning that the student has black belt technique, but not black belt wisdom or knowledge.

High Red (with black tape)

Deputy Black (half black, half red)

Black- Impervious to darkness and fear. The student is born into a world of wisdom. (also heavier hits, and the really fun stuff begins  )

Degrees are symbolized by yellow bars on each end, 1 bar being 1st dan, 2 being 2nd dan, and so forth.

Before you guys start clicking reply, in no way do we claim that this structure is ancient and traditional dating back to the days of Han Dynasty. We simply use it as our belt system, explain the meanings, and leave it at that. We even acknowledge that tae kwon do incorporates movements from Japanese and chinese arts. 

Either way, we still get our kicks. 

:asian:


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## Chiduce (Jul 26, 2002)

White;
Yellow;(Basic Motion Studies)
(Adv. Yellow) optional for the practitioner with some prior martial arts basic experience;
Orange (Motion Studies);
Adv. Orange (The foundation for intermediate motion studies);
Purple; (Intro to basic weapons defenses), etc;
Blue; ( Intro to basic knife defenses),etc,
Green; (Student has grasped basic street defensive abilities and can use them effectively in a violent street confrontation); Student starts his/her first thesis;
3rd Brown; (Certified Associate Instructor); Blunt object defenses; Student has grasped the ability to interact well with junior students and starts to assist the instructor in teaching; basic martial arts (yin/yang) theory; Takes private instruction in communication, teaching, and forming his/her unique style of defensive fighting; 3 thesis's;
2nd Brown; (Certified Associate Assistant Instructor); Blade weapons defenses; Intoduction to system theory (yin/yang relations); martial arts history, 3 thesis's, private instruction, putting the pieces together in upper body motion in defensive fighting;
1st Brown; (Certified Assistant Instructor); Projectile weapons defenses; Completing the puzzle of defensive upper and lower body motion in street fighting; 3 thesis's; system theory (upper & lower body applications); teaching the class, instructing privately, etc,.
1st Black (Shodan, Certified Instructor) Defensive system development, application and theory within the practitioner's fighting style/s!
Sincerely, In Humility; Chiduce!


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## Dronak (Jul 26, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Kirk _
> *So how do you rate yourselves in your class?  If you've studied for 3 years, and someone walks in the door and starts taking classes that day, are you in the same class as this person?  Is there a difinite stopping point to your style?  If you had to move, how would you tell your new instructor of the same style how much you knew?  Do you have promotion tests? *



Oops, I didn't realize you had quoted my post and were asking me about it.    Well, the whole thing is still relatively new.  We started classes back in the fall semester, so our club still hasn't had a birthday yet.    At the moment, there is only one class so everyone takes the same class regardless of when they started.  Perhaps things will be changed a little later on, but right now the main difference comes in what you're allowed to learn.  Our teacher separates us into different groups to learn different forms.  Those of us who started back in the fall at the beginning know more forms and more advanced forms than the people who started say in the spring.  Our teacher also has some of us older students helping to teach the newer students one of the basic level forms.  This way he doesn't have to spend the time doing it himself which would decrease the amount of time he could spend teaching new moves in new forms with the class.  By having the older students teach the newer ones, it saves our teacher some time and all he really has to do is corrections, not full instruction.  I'd guess progress can be gauged by things like that, if he has you helping teach others, and the forms you've learned.  We have a sort of long term syllabus, so we have an idea of what level different forms are at.  By tracking which ones we're learning, we have an idea of how far we've progressed.  Well, quantity-wise at least.  Quality-wise is a bit harder to judge without some sort of test, I suppose.

We did have one exam so far, in order to see if we could learn the intermediate level forms.  After we learned two basic forms, one in the fall and one in the winter, we were tested on them about one month into the spring semester (we were starting to learn other new forms before then).  Our teacher brought in two guests, another student of his master and a friend who was a two time world TKD champion to help him judge us.  The three of them watched us do the two basic forms we had learned, judged us somehow (we never got real results or scores and only general, limited feedback), and everyone who passed was allowed to learn a higher level form.  This actually meant we were allowed to learn two forms at once since we had started a different form before the exam took place.  I wouldn't be surprised if we do have some more of these in the future, one, for people who didn't take or pass the exam the first time, but also for others to show they're ready to progress into higher levels.

If I had to tell another instructor of the same style how far I had gotten with my current teacher, I'd probably just list all the forms and things I was taught.  It would be a lot because we're moving fast in this class, but the new teacher would know I had been taught and exposed to say four barehand forms and one weapon form (at the moment).  I may not do them all especially well, but I will know how they work.  He/She could then test me on those forms and things to see how well I performed them before deciding exactly how to start teaching me.  Knowing what I've been taught before and seeing how well I can perform some of it should be enough information for a new teacher to decide where to resume my training.

I hope this answers your questions.  I try to give the best answers I can with the information I have.


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## Hollywood1340 (Jul 26, 2002)

Kiddies,
 TKD follows ITF ranks already posted. In my Judo it's White, Yellow, Green, 1st Brown, 2nd Brown, 3rd Brown, Black. In CHKD it's...um..white, yellow, orange, green, purple, blue, brown, red, black/red stripe, black/white stripe, black.


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## cdhall (Aug 20, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Kirk _
> 
> *In my school, the rank/color order goes as follows:
> 
> ...



Everything I once knew about Belt Ranks I put on my website a few years ago here
http://www.cdouglashall.com/belts.html

But Mr. Parker outlined his belt ranking system in "Infinite Insights into Kenpo Volume 1" (I think, I don't have my notes and I apologize). Mr. Parker developed this belt ranking structure for his 24 technique system with additional titles for the Black Belt Degrees as noted:

White Belt
Yellow Belt
Orange Belt
Purple Belt
Blue Belt
Green Belt
3rd Degree Brown
2nd Degree Brown
1st Degree Brown
1st Degree Black Belt-Junior Instructor
2nd-Associate Instructor
3rd- Head Instructor
4th- Senior Instructor
5th- Associate Professor
6th- Professor
7th- Senior Professor
8th- Associate Master
9th- Master
10th- Grand Master

At 3rd Black you had learned all the prescribed material and promotions to 4th and beyond were not made based on what new thing you had learned, but presumably upon your increased proficiency and/or contribution to the art.  

Mr. C would be a good person to make a knowledgeable comment about this.

I hope this information proves useful.
:asian:


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## GouRonin (Aug 20, 2002)

If he borrowed the belt ranks from swimming...why were kids swimming with belts on?


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## 7starmantis (Aug 20, 2002)

We don't really have belts in Kung Fu, but for testing purposes, and to seperate the classes, we have this structure, based on forms, endurance, and basic grasping of the system.

White Level
Gold Level
Green Level
Blue Level
Red 1 Level
Red 2 Level
Brown 1 Level
Brown 2 Level
Black 1 Level
Black 2 Level

I guess after that you get to learn "real" kung fu


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## Wertle (Aug 20, 2002)

we go
white
yellow
green
3rd brown
2nd brown
1st brown
1st black
2nd black, and so on

I'm convinced they made brown go 3 to 1 and then black 1 up for the sole purpose of confusing me ^_^

As far as black belts, titles are awarded separately than rank.


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## jkn75 (Aug 20, 2002)

Kuk Sool Won:
White
Yellow
Blue
Red
Brown
Brown Black
1st - 10th Black
At 5th black (1st master level) a white sash is worn to symbolize a new start.
10th is Grand Master, In Hyuk Suh or Kuk Sa Nim (national martial arts teacher)


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## Nightingale (Aug 20, 2002)

the parker belt system, (white yellow orange purple blue green brown3 brown2 brown1 black1-10) was already posted, but I'm curious about schools and uniforms and rank...

some kenpo schools allow students to wear black uniforms from day one. my first school allowed students to wear black uniforms after purple belt.  My friends' school allows black uniforms at brown belt level.  some schools don't allow colored uniforms except for competition before a black belt rank, and don't allow mixing a black and a white uniform (black pants, white top) before black belt level.

What do your schools do with regards to this?


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## Kirk (Aug 20, 2002)

All black at my school, from day 1.  Even in the kid's classes.


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## Wertle (Aug 20, 2002)

We wear primarily black uniforms.  I think the reason for this extends back from when my soke was much younger and teaching at a college, there was a shady karate group that went around picking fights and causing trouble.  They wore white uniforms, and my soke at the time had his class wear black ones, to distinguish their group from the trouble makers.  It just stuck as a tradition, I guess.

Some people do wear white uniforms, or a combination of white and black (black top, white pants, etc.), but it's primarily black.  Except on the fourth of july, when my soke wears his snazzy patriotic gi, just for fun ^_^.


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## Master of Blades (Aug 20, 2002)

White
Yellow
Green
Blue
Red
Black
Black 1st
Black 2nd
Black 3rd
.........................And so on.


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## Matt Stone (Aug 20, 2002)

We wear black Chinese style uniforms and the apporpriate sash for tests, special events, demos, competitions, etc.

For normal training, black Japanese style uniforms are worn (although Chinese style can be worn, too) along with Japanese style belts (which correspond to the sash color the student has been graded at).  This is a recent "official" change that came about after a good amount of discussion.

When I first started in Yiliquan in 1985 or 86 (I can't remember anymore), we only wore Chinese style uniforms.  Back then, the best we could get were the $19.95 super thin cotton ones.  After a while, we found Tiger Claw, and started getting uniforms from them - good quality, decent price.  At one point, though, the Chinese style were hard to get as they were often sold out in the more common sizes.  As a stop-gap, we started allowing Japanese style karate uniforms in place of the Chinese ones.  We have always had a sash system (as mentioned upthread quite a ways), and there was no change to that when we first allowed the Japanese uniforms as an optional wear item...

The uniform colors at first were all black.  That was due mainly to the fact that Chinese style uniforms _only came in black_.  It was really rare to find one in any other color (although we did have one instructor that found a white one, but she ended up dying it purple...  whatever).  Just the "traditional" kung fu movie uniform - Black with white buttons, cuffs and collar.  The Tiger Claw ones were either all black, or "kung fu movie style."

When the Japanese style uniforms were allowed as optional wear, color became unimportant.  The fact that a student had a training uniform was far more important than what color it was, and eventually there was some mixing and matching of white/black tops with black/white pants (due to the student wearing whatever was clean!).

Now, we have standardized our uniforms quite a bit.  As stated above, black Chinese or Japanese style uniform, with the appropriate sash or belt as received from grading examinations.  Only one patch is worn, the headquarters patch of the International Yiliquan Association.  Sometimes instructors wear a tab on their sleeve indicating their status (you know the patch - the big rectangular patch with gold letters and border with the word "INSTRUCTOR" in the middle), but that is at their discretion.  I used to wear one, but have stopped doing so in the last few years...

Gambarimasu.

:asian:


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## Aikikitty (Aug 20, 2002)

In the Aikido style I do....

   Women can wear a hakama from day 1 while men can only wear one once they reach Black Belt.

   Everyone wears a white belt until they reach shodan/black belt.

Robyn :asian: 

:yinyang:


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## arnisador (Aug 20, 2002)

> _Originally posted by The Opal Dragon _
> 
> *Women can wear a hakama from day 1 *



And do you?


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## artful dodger (Aug 20, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Dronak _
> 
> *Interesting differences between the different schools/systems.  I really don't know much on the subject.  We don't have belt/color rankings in the classes I'm taking because it's a traditional Chinese martial art which doesn't use that system.  Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong here, but here's what I heard about where it came from (sorry if everyone in the world has heard this already).  Originally people started with a white belt and over time and lots of practice, it would eventually get darker, probably from sweat and dirt and the like.  So the color rankings came about as an emulation of that.  You start from white and the colors get darker until you reach black.  That's what I'd expect and it looks like that's generally what seems to happen.  I thought I heard something about red belts being reserved as a rank above the highest black belt level and very, very few people in the world had it (like under 10 or something), but I have no idea on what style or anything.  I could be totally wrong on that, but I would be interested in knowing if anyone else knows what I'm talking about there.    I don't know if this really helps, but I thought I'd comment anyway. *




Yep, and apparently once your belt got so dirty it was completely black it then started to wear out until it eventually became white again and that was supposed to show such true mastery that you were back to innocence again knowing that you still have so much to learn.


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## Aikikitty (Aug 20, 2002)

> _Originally posted by arnisador _
> 
> *
> 
> And do you? *



Well, I could have worn a hakama from the first day but I only finally got one 2 weeks ago.  I didn't get one for so long mainly because I figured that they'd be a lot warmer (when I was hot enough) or I'd trip over it (and I'm clumsy enough to do that without any help) and they are usually pretty expensive.  However, I got a pretty good-so-far hakama off of E-Bay and I'm really enjoying it.  I feel "neat" while I'm wearing it and I like the flowy feeling too!   My hakama really doesn't make me feel warmer than I already am while working out and I've only tripped over it a few times so far.  

Robyn :asian:

:yinyang:


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## artful dodger (Aug 20, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Cthulhu _
> 
> *
> 
> ...



I should have read all the posts before I put my 2 cents in.


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## arnisador (Aug 20, 2002)

I wore one for iaido. It was OK.


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## Deathtrap101 (Aug 21, 2002)

WOW I didnt know that many people wore black uniforms, ive actualy never seen anyone wearing black uniforms('cept on TV). here we all were white ones. 

 our ranks go
White
Yellow
Orange
Green
blue
brown
black
2nd black and so on.


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## Matt Stone (Aug 21, 2002)

It was always really funny when we first started going to tournaments in our area...  There were nothing but karate and tae kwon do schools in attendance, and we were the only ones in black uniforms...

There was a very visible psychological impact on our opponents.  Just squaring up against "those kung fu guys" seemed to make a lot of people nervous - they didn't know what to expect from us, since we were new to the area.

Later, after we had gained a little bit of a reputation, we actually had folks drop out of competition categories rather than match up against us...  Not sure why...   :EG:

Gambarimasu.

:asian:


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## Wertle (Aug 21, 2002)

> There were nothing but karate and tae kwon do schools in attendance, and we were the only ones in black uniforms...



There's a large Tae Kwon Do class that sometimes practices in the room next to us at one of my schools, so when we go out there to get a drink of water at the same time they do, I always feel like I stick out like....well, like a black sheep in a white flock ^_^

No stealth there...


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## donald (Sep 24, 2002)

Unless things have changed since my hiatus began. My instructor only allows blackbelts to wear a full black gi. You can wear whatever you wish for competion, but on the training floor, only black bottoms with a white top, or full white till you reach the blackbelt levels.

Salute in Christ,
 :asian:


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## Aegis (Sep 24, 2002)

For BJA Judo:

Juniors:

18 Mon (junior) Grades:

Novice + 1st-3rd: White 1-3 (though I think this has now been replaced by a red belt.... stupid IMHO, but hey!)

4th-6th: Yellow 1-3

7th-9th: Orange 1-3

10th-12th: Green 1-3

13th-15th: Blue 1-3

16th-18th: Brown 1-3

At 15+ a competitor can test for 1st Dan on the Senior Syllabus.

Seniors (Kyu grades):

Novice: White

9th: Yellow

8th-7th: Orange

6th-5th: Green

4th-3rd: Blue

2nd-1st: Brown

1st-5th Dan: Black, with optional level tags

6th-8th Dan: Black, or optionally Red and White Belt

9th-10th Dan: Black, or optionally Red Belt

To my knowledge, 11th is a possible grade but has never been achieved.


Jitsu Foundation Grades:

Novice: White

7th Kyu: Yellow

6th Kyu: Orange

5th Kyu: Green

4th Kyu: Purple

3rd Kyu: Light Blue

2nd Kyu: Dark Blue

1st Kyu: Brown

1st Dan: Black + Hakama

2nd Dan: Black + Hakama + Black sleeveless Tunic

3rd Dan: Black + Hakama + Black gi top.

No Grades higher than 3rd dan, except the head of the foundation who's 5th.


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## Hansson (Sep 24, 2002)

In Swedish Sport Ju-Jutsu...

5th kyu: Yellow belt
4th kyu: Orange belt
3rd kyu: Green belt
2nd kyu: Blue belt
1st kyu: Brown belt
All dans: Black belt

Only white gi's.

In Sweden only Ninjutsu folks use coloured gi's (black in that case) with the exception of a suspect kenpo club (which I guess has been inspired by American kenpo... some of them wear red/black gi's which look absolutely awful...).

Isn't this multicoloured gi mainly a Kenpo thing? Or do karatekas and aikidokas from the traditional schools also wear them in the US?


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## Angus (Sep 24, 2002)

> _Originally posted by deadhand31 _
> 
> *
> Either way, we still get our kicks.
> *



That is a terrible, terrible pun.  

American Karate:

White
Yellow
Orange
Green 
Blue
Purple
1st Brown
2nd Brown 
Red/black
Black

Current, uh, mix:

White
Yellow
Orange
Purple
Green
1st Blue (w/black)
2nd Blue
1st Red (w/ black)
2nd Red
1st Brown (w/ black)
2nd Brown
Black

The kids have the same order, but EVERY color has a black striped belt before the solid color, so they start on white/black. I think it's something like 18 belts. 

I don't remember the Muay Thai shirt order, but I remember it contained things like neon lime green, which was at least different.


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## Bod (Sep 25, 2002)

We have the BJA Judo colours as posted above. My teacher is 9th Dan BJA so he can wear a red belt, and the students searched high and low to get him one. But he won't wear it because it leaks dye into his nice white gi. He sticks to his old red and white which I think looks better anyway. The general tradition in Judo is you try to keep your belt as low down the scale as possible to avoid the heavier beatings you get higher up the scale.

In Bujinkan Ninpo it goes White then Green then Black.

Matt, I can see why you discussed the uniform change for a long time. If I walked into a 'kung-fu' school where the students wore Japanese uniforms I'd be highly suspect about the lineage, but I know how hard it can be to get decent Chinese uniforms. We trained in white T-shirts and black jogbottoms or Chinese kit depending on the weather when I did Kung-fu. The Chinese approach was always the practical one, so it doesn't surprise me that you are so casual about what uniforms you wear.


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## Shinzu (Sep 25, 2002)

my styles:

Shotokan:

white, yellow, orange, blue, green, purple, purple w/2 stripes, brown 1, brown 2, brown 3, then black.

1st TSD School:

white, orange, orange w/green stripe, green, green w/brown stripe, brown, brown w/red stripe, red, red w/blue stripe, dark blue, dark blue w/black stripe, then black (1st-3rd dan), black w/red stripe thouugh the center (4th-5th dan), blackw/2 red stripes (6th dan), black and red checkered (7th dan), white and red checkered (8th dan). 

TSD school i am at now:

white, yellow, orange, orange w/1 stripe, green, green w/1 stripe, green w/2 stripes, red, red w/1 stripe, red w/2 stripes, red w/3 stripes, red w/2 srtipes & 1 black stripe, red w/3 stripes and 1 black stripe, midnight blue 1-3rd dan (black), midnight blue with a red line through the center (4th-7th dan).


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## Matt Stone (Sep 26, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Bod _
> 
> *The Chinese approach was always the practical one, so it doesn't surprise me that you are so casual about what uniforms you wear. *



I guess my feeling is that since, at least as far as I can tell, it is more likely that you will be attacked/confronted/assaulted while _not_ in your training uniform, what clothing you wear for training should at least have a bit of common sense thrown at it.  We still wear Chinese uniforms in addition to the Japanese style ones, but I am hoping to be able to encourage at least a few training classes in regular ol' street clothes so folks can see how their movements are impacted by different (and usually more constricting) clothes.

Gambarimasu.


----------



## RyuShiKan (Sep 26, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Bod _
> 
> *   Matt, I can see why you discussed the uniform change for a long time. If I walked into a 'kung-fu' school where the students wore Japanese uniforms I'd be highly suspect about the lineage,....................  *




Really? I wouldn't. 
There was a man in Taiwan by the name of Hung Yi Shang, who was extremely well resepcted and was former head of the Taiwan Martial Arts Federation, respected Sying Yi, Bagua, & Taichi master and all around bad ***. His students wore "Japanese" karate uniforms and it even said "Tang Sho Dao" or Karate Do (old kanji for Kara) on the back of the uniforms.


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## Rich Parsons (Sep 26, 2002)

In the Modern Arnis, I grew up in the ranking was as follows:

Yellow
Blue
Green I
Green II
Brown I
Brown II
Brown III
Lakan/Dayang (Black Belt)
Lakan/Dayang Isa (First degree)
Etc., ..., . 

Later it was changed to the following to avoid some confusion with other clubs at tournaments:

Yellow
Green I
Green II
Blue I
Blue II
Brown I
Brown II
Brown III
Lakan/Dayang
Lakan/Dayang Isa
etc., ..., . 


In The Balintawak I study there are two ranks:

Teacher and Student. As my Instructor, Manong Ted Buot has not said I can teach, I am still very much the student. Does this bother me? Nope. I enjoy it very much.

Good wishes to all

Rich
:asian:


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## chufeng (Sep 27, 2002)

Our by-laws are pretty strict on wear wear of uniforms...

We have to wear pants, some kind of jacket (Chinese or Japanese) and our rank belt with the knot firmly placed over tan t'ien...a single club patch is highly encouraged...all other patches are highly discouraged...Now, the belt can be worn in the traditional Japanese fashion (outside of gi top with tails hanging free) or it could be tied with tails tucked and the jacket over the belt (so you don't see it)...shoes are optional...For special occasions the student will wear a sash instead of a belt...worn with the knot on the right hip if male (opposite if female) unless the person holds master rank, in which case the knot is on the other hip...(although my teacher will argue otherwise, there is only ONE master of our system).


Someone who comes to our system is recognized as white belt and can wear ANY belt he/she chooses until the first test...then he/she must wear the rank earned in our system. 

Belt order was previously identified by Matt Stone...

A very strict dress code...yes.

:asian:
chufeng


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## MartialArtist (Sep 27, 2002)

I remember having a couple of belts.

White, blue, red, and black just spring into mind.  Traditionally, there wasn't purple and all those colors.

The last belt would be...  White.  White is the first and the last color.  Your black belt with age becomes white, symbolizing that you are back to instinct but the difference then is that it's "instinct with skill"


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## tonbo (Sep 27, 2002)

At our school, we use the following ranking system:

White
Yellow
Orange
Purple
Blue
Green
Brown
Brown with Red Stripe ("High Brown Belt", or 1st Deg. Brown)
Red (2nd Deg. Brown)
Red/Black (3rd Deg. Brown)
Black
Black, 1st Deg.
Black, 2nd Deg.
etc.

We wear white uniforms until reaching Blue belt, when you can officially wear a black uniform.  If you are an assistant instructor or full instructor, you wear a red top when teaching, but your normal black top when in class.

Peace--


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## 7starmantis (Sep 29, 2002)

> _Originally posted by RyuShiKan _
> 
> *Really? I wouldn't.
> There was a man in Taiwan by the name of Hung Yi Shang, who was extremely well resepcted and was former head of the Taiwan Martial Arts Federation, respected Sying Yi, Bagua, & Taichi master and all around bad ***. His students wore "Japanese" karate uniforms and it even said "Tang Sho Dao" or Karate Do (old kanji for Kara) on the back of the uniforms. *



Just because someone is "an all-around badass" doesn't mean they are studying any specific style. A Kung Fu school would wear a CAM type uniform where a Karate would ususally wear a JMA type uniform. If I was looking into a CMA and they were not following CMA traditions I would be a little leary. Not saying they couldn't be teaching Kung Fu, just normally an instructor of Kung FU would be traditionaly CMA.


7sm


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## Matt Stone (Sep 29, 2002)

> _Originally posted by 7starmantis _
> 
> *Just because someone is "an all-around badass" doesn't mean they are studying any specific style.*



You are correct.  However, I believe that RyuShiKan intended that inclusionary comment to communicate the fact that Hung's legitimacy wasn't based on the clothes he wore, but for the fighting skills he possessed and taught...



> *A Kung Fu school would wear a CMA type uniform where a Karate would ususally wear a JMA type uniform.*



And while that _is_ normally the case, there are valid reasons for this not being the case in some schools.  In Yiliquan, for the purpose of maintaining the quality of instruction between schools, we have rules set out for many aspects of our training, not the least of which is the uniform we wear.  The decision to make JMA uniforms the standard was led by yours truly, due in part to my own personal preferences as well as certain economic factors.  I prefer the JMA uniforms as they are more durable, require less potential maintenance following hard grappling training (the CMA uniforms can lose buttons, and once they do you pretty much need to get another jacket as the buttons are hard to repair), in general they are more available and at cheaper prices.  The sash worn for CMA uniforms (we make our own out of different materials for different levels) can be a real pain in the keister - it comes untied at the worst times and doesn't stay in an extended fashion to provide the abdominal support it is intended for.  The JMA belt is sewn into a stiff position insuring it will remain in place, tied, and snug in all but the most bizarre situations (admittedly a new belt is hard to keep tied, but that is remedied by more training!  ).



> *If I was looking into a CMA and they were not following CMA traditions I would be a little leary.*



Not to be picky, but which CMA traditions are you referring to?  The clothing they wear?  You are aware that the CMA uniform is based not so much on specific athletically oriented wear (as the JMA uniforms, especially the judo and iaido ones, are) as it is normal street wear, right?  So the use of a CMA style "uniform" is less tradition and more mimickry than anything else...

And while I am as traditionally oriented as one would want to be, I also recognize that I am a citizen of the USA, and folks don't wear that kind of clothing when they are walking down the street and getting mugged...  So what I wear to training has to facilitate training, supposed traditions be damned.  The other part of my motivation in getting the JMA uniform installed as the "official" training uniform is that it is a simple garment easily used for simple training.  For specific training (I think I have said this somewhere else earlier), students should follow the "CMA tradition" and show up in their street clothes!  That is much more appropriate to learn self-defense than wearing a set of PJs and light weight tennies (unless, of course, you are in the habit of wearing your jammies on the street...  maybe we could start a new fashion trend!!!  )



> *Not saying they couldn't be teaching Kung Fu, just normally an instructor of Kung FU would be traditionaly CMA.*



Well, and I think this goes back to a thread I posted in regarding using foreign languages in English speaking schools, _kung fu_  really means nothing more than skills developed over time.  Trying to assume that traditional cultural costumes are somehow intrinsically tied in to the development of martial skills is to miss the point of the martial training.  Sure, some arts will always retain the original costume of the country of origin (iaido and kyudo spring to mind), and that is fine, since those arts are cultural treasures in addition to being martial arts.  However, for those whose motivation is less to propagate a cultural idiosyncracy and more to develop self defense skills, what they wear is of little importance in terms of the legitimacy of the school.

Gambarimasu.


----------



## chufeng (Sep 29, 2002)

When I was in Hawaii, I trained for a short time with Sifu Arthur Lee...a Master of Fut Ga Kun...a man of unbelievable skill, but VERY humble.

What uniform do you think he wore to teach us?

Street clothes...he preferred double knit pants because they were stretchy, and pointy leather shoes...

The only time I saw him "suit up" was for traditional Lion Dances...

so much for the uniform theory...

:asian:
chufeng


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## MartialArtist (Sep 30, 2002)

> _Originally posted by chufeng _
> 
> *When I was in Hawaii, I trained for a short time with Sifu Arthur Lee...a Master of Fut Ga Kun...a man of unbelievable skill, but VERY humble.
> 
> ...


I agree.

Traditionally, those clothes were more comfortable IMO but ever since those "super uniforms" or the "flashy" uniform, it's gotten strange.  I prefer shorts and a t-shirt or sweat pants and a sweat shirt.


----------



## Matt Stone (Sep 30, 2002)

> _Originally posted by MartialArtist _
> 
> *I prefer shorts and a t-shirt or sweat pants and a sweat shirt. *



And while from a certain standpoint I agree, at least for occassional training uniform use, the training uniform has to have a certain durability that will allow it to be used frequently over a long period of time with little wear and tear...  That is why I like my black judogi...  That thing is like armor and will last darn near forever!

I met Sifu Lee once years ago, and his seminar and demonstration at a tournament were done in slacks, a knit top, and Florsheims.  No silly PJs for him!


----------



## 7starmantis (Sep 30, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Yiliquan1 _
> *You are correct. However, I believe that RyuShiKan intended that inclusionary comment to communicate the fact that Hung's legitimacy wasn't based on the clothes he wore, but for the fighting skills he possessed and taught...*


I agree, I didn't say it wassn't based on his fighting skill rather than his fashion choices, however, because a person has high skill levels in fighting doesn't not prove latency to a specific art or system. I know several great fighters who do not study any specific system or art. That was my specific point, not that an instructor's skill is limited to his clothes, but that he system would "generally" use close to the same clothing. And I did say generally.


> _Originally posted by Yiliquan1 _
> *And while that is normally the case, there are valid reasons for this not being the case in some schools. In Yiliquan, for the purpose of maintaining the quality of instruction between schools, we have rules set out for many aspects of our training, not the least of which is the uniform we wear. The decision to make JMA uniforms the standard was led by yours truly, due in part to my own personal preferences as well as certain economic factors. I prefer the JMA uniforms as they are more durable, require less potential maintenance following hard grappling training (the CMA uniforms can lose buttons, and once they do you pretty much need to get another jacket as the buttons are hard to repair), in general they are more available and at cheaper prices. The sash worn for CMA uniforms (we make our own out of different materials for different levels) can be a real pain in the keister - it comes untied at the worst times and doesn't stay in an extended fashion to provide the abdominal support it is intended for. The JMA belt is sewn into a stiff position insuring it will remain in place, tied, and snug in all but the most bizarre situations (admittedly a new belt is hard to keep tied, but that is remedied by more training!  ).*



I understand that some school do not use "traditional" uniforms at all. Validity for that reason basicaly escapes me, but I do see it. Let me clarify my statment of "traditional". In my school we do not wear full traditional CMA uniforms with the frog buttons and all for everyday training. However, we do not wear traditional FMA, or JMA, or any other system "clothing style". While we do not wear "traditional" in that sense, we do wear a "traditional" training uniform. We wear CMA pants with elastic at the bottom, not the straight leg type. We are allowed to wear school T-Shirts on some nights, others we use a jacket that is "traditional" in its look, but sturdy. My school doesn't wear sashes at all. So you see, I'm not speaking of extremely "traditional" as you would think from watching some Kung Fu movie, I'm speaking of accepted or "traditional" wear for Kung Fu training.



> _Originally posted by Yiliquan1 _
> *Not to be picky, but which CMA traditions are you referring to? The clothing they wear? You are aware that the CMA uniform is based not so much on specific athletically oriented wear (as the JMA uniforms, especially the judo and iaido ones, are) as it is normal street wear, right? So the use of a CMA style "uniform" is less tradition and more mimickry than anything else...
> 
> And while I am as traditionally oriented as one would want to be, I also recognize that I am a citizen of the USA, and folks don't wear that kind of clothing when they are walking down the street and getting mugged... So what I wear to training has to facilitate training, supposed traditions be damned. The other part of my motivation in getting the JMA uniform installed as the "official" training uniform is that it is a simple garment easily used for simple training. For specific training (I think I have said this somewhere else earlier), students should follow the "CMA tradition" and show up in their street clothes! That is much more appropriate to learn self-defense than wearing a set of PJs and light weight tennies (unless, of course, you are in the habit of wearing your jammies on the street... maybe we could start a new fashion trend!!!  ) *



I am speaking of "tradition" in the sense that most Kung Fu school today accept that as the appropriate dress. We strive to maintain our traditional roots while adapting to today and the wear and tear on training uniforms. As the CMA uniform being adapted to stret clothing, it is, but you have to understand what street they are taking that from. It is adapted to the street wear of what the majority of chinese workers wore on a daily basis. Also this all goes back to what you are attempting to learn from your class. Are you there to only learn to fight well? Self defense is a great benefit, but I don't believe should be the one only reason you are studying. That is why we are clinging to our traditional roots. You have to balance tradition with practicality. But this doesn't mean adopting another systems style in clothing. Remeber the original text was that we would be leary about a Kung Fu school in JMA uniforms, not street clothing. I would be much less leary of them in street clothes myself.



> _Originally posted by Yiliquan1 _
> *Well, and I think this goes back to a thread I posted in regarding using foreign languages in English speaking schools, kung fu  really means nothing more than skills developed over time.  Trying to assume that traditional cultural costumes are somehow intrinsically tied in to the development of martial skills is to miss the point of the martial training.  Sure, some arts will always retain the original costume of the country of origin (iaido and kyudo spring to mind), and that is fine, since those arts are cultural treasures in addition to being martial arts.  However, for those whose motivation is less to propagate a cultural idiosyncracy and more to develop self defense skills, what they wear is of little importance in terms of the legitimacy of the school.
> 
> Gambarimasu. *



I understand that you are taking a very literal stand with the words "kung fu". However, you must in todays world and the past worlds define the specific CMA somehow. How would you propose? Kung Fu is a term that has been used and will continue to be used to do specificaly that. Because the literal translation does not convey the exacticality of the system doesn't mean in todays world, the one you so adimatly portrayed in your post, we are bound by using terms to indentify, and Kung Fu is the term that identifies this system of CMA. No one is saying clothing is, "...somehow intrinsically tied in to the development of martial skills...". What I am saying is that traditional systems will inspire a sense of traditional clothing. If you study a system and have no interest in its creation, or its traditions, I would propose that you are not ruly studying that system. You said, "However, for those whose motivation is less to propagate a cultural idiosyncracy and more to develop self defense skills, what they wear is of little importance in terms of the legitimacy of the school". The legitimacy of the school no, the background of the instructor, yes.


7sm


----------



## Matt Stone (Sep 30, 2002)

> _Originally posted by 7starmantis _
> 
> *I understand that some schools do not use "traditional" uniforms at all. Validity for that reason basicaly escapes me, but I do see it.*



What is it about the validity of the practicality of training wear that escapes you?  Shouldn't the clothing fit the endeavor?  If I am swimming, I don't wear a parka.  If I am biking, I don't wear loose clothing.



> *Let me clarify my statment of "traditional". In my school we do not wear full traditional CMA uniforms with the frog buttons and all for everyday training. However, we do not wear traditional FMA, or JMA, or any other system "clothing style". While we do not wear "traditional" in that sense, we do wear a "traditional" training uniform. We wear CMA pants with elastic at the bottom, not the straight leg type. We are allowed to wear school T-Shirts on some nights, others we use a jacket that is "traditional" in its look, but sturdy.*



Then from my perspective, i.e. "traditional" CMA schools wearing the full Mandarin style jacket and pants, you would be "nontraditonal" yourself...  I understand that at least you aren't wearing a uniform taken from another style or national culture, and I appreciate your point there.  However, it does need mention that the "JMA" style uniform is in actuality very similar to Chinese clothing from before the Mandarin era...  If you look at normal everyday clothing from quite a ways back, as well as the uniforms of the Shaolin monks (since everyone loves to go back to Shaolin as their origin in some manner), you will see that the shirt/blouse/jacket worn was of a wraparound/foldover style, _not_ of a button up style...



> * My school doesn't wear sashes at all.*



And you aren't alone in that.  We use sashes/belts for two purposes:  1) Primarily to perform continuous breathing training (when you are doing Reverse Breathing properly, your lower abdomen will press out against the sash/belt; that pressure gives you immediate feedback whether you are doing it properly or not); 2) to easily and rapidly separate training groups.  We have no "rank" per se in Yiliquan...  Just students and more senior students, no teachers at all as we firmly believe we are all continually learning.



> *So you see, I'm not speaking of xtremely "traditional" as you would think from watching some Kung Fu movie, I'm speaking of accepted or "traditional" wear for Kung Fu training.*



And this is where you start to trip over your words...  Traditional for "kung fu" as historically and culturally accepted or traditional as accepted in the US?  If you look at the historical facts, wraparound jackets were commonplace in China.  The button up jackets were not as commonly used until after Mao took over and instituted "uniforms" for the Communist Party...  If you look at "traditional" in the context of what is accepted in the US, then you will have a tough go at stating exactly what that means.  While you are allowed to wear t-shirts and pants, and _sometimes_ a school t-shirt, my school (and others I know of) would _never_ allow such leniency in codes of dress - it is the full Monty or nothing at all.



> *I understand that you are taking a very literal stand with the words "kung fu". However, you must in todays world and the past worlds define the specific CMA somehow. How would you propose?*



Maybe with "Chinese Martial Arts."  I am not taking a "literal stand" with the words, I am using them the way they are supposed to be used...  If I told a student that they were learning "booger fu," knowing full well what "booger" means, but I tell the student that _we_ use the word "booger" to mean something different, don't you think that native speakers who _know_ what "booger" really means wouldn't be upset at its misuse and condemn those who misuse it?  That is where I am coming from on the language topic...  It is so common in the US (and elsewhere I'm sure) for people to use things the way they want with no concern for the proper use, because they are "expressing themselves" or some other equally nonsensical reason, that we begin to communally condone such misuse.  I refuse to.  Either use the language properly, or check your foreign terms at the door.  I think that "Chinese Martial Arts" covers everything just fine.



> *Kung Fu is a term that has been used and will continue to be used to do specificaly that (define the specific CMA somehow).*



But it fails to do just that!  The terms _wu shu_ (which is far more appropriate, and is what is actually used "traditionally" in China) _kuo shu_ (used in Taiwan primarily) are far more "traditionally" accepted than kung fu is.  So we have at least *three* terms being bandied about and nobody can seem to agree on what it is they actually are doing!



> *Because the literal translation does not convey the exacticality of the system doesn't mean in todays world, the one you so adamantly portrayed in your post, we are bound by using terms to indentify, and Kung Fu is the term that identifies this system of CMA.*



So if we are not bound to use the "traditional" terms, why are we bound to use the "traditional" clothing?  Your argument is inconsistent on this.  You are trying to say that we should continue using a particular set of clothing from the style's country of origin, but that the terms from the language of the style's country of origin can be picked and chosen as we see fit?  Either one or the other...  Either we keep 100% of the whole thing, or we pick and choose.  Trying to argue that we need to do the former, while actually doing the latter is nothing short of hypocrisy.



> *No one is saying clothing is, "...somehow intrinsically tied in to the development of martial skills...".*



I know that.  I didn't intend to imply you (in particular) were, but there have been discussions about this issue on other fora where just such an issue came up.  Essentialy, the other arguments were that without certain nationalities or certain other accoutrements you couldn't actually hope to learn CMA.  Total bunk, but that was what was being said...  I apologize if you took that in reference to yourself - such a meaning was not intended.



> *What I am saying is that traditional systems will inspire a sense of traditional clothing.*



Which was why I made reference to kyudo and iaido.  Kendo could be included, also, to a degree.  They are highly traditional in their orientation (although in their present form they are only nearing about 100 years old; their predecessor arts are much older), and at least some of their art is keyed into the clothing they wear.  But I don't believe that to be the case in CMA.



> *If you study a system and have no interest in its creation, or its traditions, I would propose that you are not ruly studying that system.*



To a degree I would agree with you on this point.  If a person fails to delve fully into the cultural context of their art, the linguistic background (to fully understand the terms being used to describe different aspects of their art), etc., then the students are _not_ truly studying that system, only the physical components of it.  However, I think the people that go the extra mile are few and far between...  To better understand CMA I have studied massage therapy, TCM, Chinese religion and philosophy, military strategy and history, and Chinese language.  I continue to pursue these things as I continue to pursue my training, and in Yiliquan such ongoing training is required at higher levels, not just encouraged.  In my karate training I continually ask questions to better understand the terminology being used.  When I lived in Japan I ran my Japanese friends down in the hall continually, trying to better understand the language and nuances of certain phrases.  You would be amazed at the level of misunderstanding because of this failure on the part of many instructors...  If they knew what they were saying when they said it they would understand some things much better.



> *You said, "However, for those whose motivation is less to propagate a cultural idiosyncracy and more to develop self defense skills, what they wear is of little importance in terms of the legitimacy of the school". The legitimacy of the school no, the background of the instructor, yes.*



The school is the outward manifestation of the teacher's efforts.  If the legitimacy of the school is not in question because of the uniform worn by its students, then the legitimacy of the teacher's training is irrelevant.  To validate his background, rather than make an assumption based on their uniform, questions could be asked to determine the reason for being "nontraditional."  I think that would be a much fairer test than automatically shooting down a teacher because of what his students wear...

I think we may have to agree to disagree on this topic.  I have enjoyed your comments and rebuttals, but neither of us appear to be willing to back down on our opinions.

Gambarimasu.

:asian:


----------



## 7starmantis (Sep 30, 2002)

Ok, I'm not going to argue words with you, ask anyone on the street what Jackie Chan does, what will they say...Kung Fu. That is why I used those words, for the simple reason that thye are understandable to everyday people. You have based so muhc on todays world and society, yet you are unwilling to use terms they understand. That is the tip of nonsensical.


7sm


----------



## 7starmantis (Sep 30, 2002)

To be quite honest, I didn't read your entire post because I find it trite. Lets stay on the topic and not get off on detailing words used by each other.


7sm


----------



## Matt Stone (Sep 30, 2002)

> _Originally posted by 7starmantis _
> 
> *Ok, I'm not going to argue words with you, ask anyone on the street what Jackie Chan does, what will they say...Kung Fu. That is why I used those words, for the simple reason that thye are understandable to everyday people.*



Well, when you ask someone who actually speaks the language you are butchering you would be surprised to get a different answer...



> *You have based so muhc on todays world and society, yet you are unwilling to use terms they understand.*



No, I *do* use terms they understand.  I say "Chinese Martial Arts."  And if I find a term in another language that I do not speak, I have the decency to go look the word up so I don't sound like a poorly educated shmoe when I use it.  



> *That is the tip of nonsensical.*





> *To be quite honest, I didn't read your entire post because I find it trite.*



Whatever.  Perhaps you missed this part:



> I think we may have to agree to disagree on this topic. I have enjoyed your comments and rebuttals, but neither of us appear to be willing to back down on our opinions.



You are getting a tad snippy.  Is there a reason for this?  It seems that thus far we have done nothing inconsistent with typical thread drift...  We are still discussing the appropriateness of uniforms worn, which sprang from a discussion of belts worn, which sprang from a discussion about what belt colors were used...



> *Lets stay on the topic and not get off on detailing words used by each other.*



It would be very convenient to leave words out of this, and it would really work to the benefit of the terminally monolingual, but when I am called to task because of a lack of adherence to "traditions" and then find that the person calling me to task is not as fully versed in those same "traditions" (since CMA is from China, and the terms used to describe it, teach it, etc., are typically mangled Chinese words), I find it both applicable and on topic to sort out the genuine meaning of the words in order to fully clarify exactly what is being discussed...


----------



## 7starmantis (Sep 30, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Yiliquan1 _
> 
> *
> It would be very convenient to leave words out of this, and it would really work to the benefit of the terminally monolingual, but when I am called to task because of a lack of adherence to "traditions" and then find that the person calling me to task is not as fully versed in those same "traditions" (since CMA is from China, and the terms used to describe it, teach it, etc., are typically mangled Chinese words), I find it both applicable and on topic to sort out the genuine meaning of the words in order to fully clarify exactly what is being discussed... *



Wow, calm down there buddy. You are assuming alot about me right here, lets not get into what happens when you make an assumption. You are assuming I do not speak Chinese, or that I am not versed in Chinese culture. Lets not be so quick to administer personal jabs while conflicting our own statments.


7sm


----------



## Matt Stone (Sep 30, 2002)

> _Originally posted by 7starmantis _
> 
> *Wow, calm down there buddy.*



Oh, I am calm.  Perfectly so.  While I enjoy engaging in debates here on the internet, I certainly don't get riled about conflicting comments, nor do I lose sleep when folks disagree with me...  Hence my previous comment that we will likely have to agree to disagree on this particular thread.



> *You are assuming I do not speak Chinese, or that I am not versed in Chinese culture.*



Well, let's call it an educated assumption.  Your comments have all led to the misuse of Chinese language as well as misunderstandings of what you term "traditions" in CMA.  If anyone is being assuming, I think it would be you.  You say that the clothes make the man, and woe unto he that wears something different, but you can use the words and the language however you see fit...  

The way I see it, if you (you "anyone," not you "7star") are a student it is an opportunity to learn as much as you can by learning the traditions, culture, language, history, myths, philosophy, religion, etc., of your chosen CMA style.  If you (you "anyone," not you "7star") are an instructor, then IMO it is your responsibility to be sure you learn as much as you can, accept corrections when they are given, and correct misuses, misunderstandings, etc., when you see them.  Being content with the existence of a problem makes you (you "anyone," not you "7star") a partner in the propagation of the problem.  Personally, I stand firm in correcting minor errors that have, regrettably, become deeply ingrained in the CMA community at large.  I may be in the minority, but I refuse to allow my inaction to help foster further ingnorance.



> *Lets not be so quick to administer personal jabs while conflicting our own statments.*



Please show me where I am conflicting my own statements.  I was contrasting, in fact, your call to arms for the maintenance of CMA "traditions" against your endorsing the misuse of the language used to describe the arts you practice.  It is okay by your thinking (so it seems) to pick and choose what you adhere to.  Wearing a certain costume is an easy choice - just put it on.  Speaking the language, or at very least understanding the select terms you make use of, is more difficult - it takes effort and study.

Maybe you _do_ speak Chinese.  I have no way of knowing for sure.  If you _do_ then I don't understand why you wouldn't want to correct the misuse of it, given your expressed desire to ensure the continuation of tradition.  If you don't, then I can understand why you would be happy to have the discussion avoid that area, since it would shed light on an area that lacks in your training, thus invalidating some of your arguments.

Either way, I have stated my opinions.  If they contradict yours, so be it.  The world is made of lots of different people with lots of different viewpoints.  For the record, I am not trying to attack you, I am not trying to humiliate or otherwise make you a victim in this discussion.  All I _have_ done is to review what you wrote, dissect it, and display the parts that I felt were contradictory.  If I was in error, feel free to dispute the errors and show me where I am wrong.  Or not.  Either way, it's a free country...  or internet...  whatever.  

Gambarimasu.

:asian:


----------



## 7starmantis (Oct 1, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Yiliquan1 _
> *Well, let's call it an educated assumption. Your comments have all led to the misuse of Chinese language as well as misunderstandings of what you term "traditions" in CMA. If anyone is being assuming, I think it would be you. You say that the clothes make the man, and woe unto he that wears something different, but you can use the words and the language however you see fit...
> 
> Gambarimasu.
> ...



Assumptions, educated or not are still dangerous. I completely understand the terms I am using, I also understand the traditions I speak of. I also speak a dialect of Comanche, a native american language, and while the world calls them indians, they are not actualy indian now are they? But then Cowboy and Nativa Americans movies wouldn't have quite the same ring to it would it? I used Kung Fu because it is an accepted term that everyone understands what I'm talking about, the use of language is to communicate, and I communicated what I ment easily and quickly. I'm sorry you don't agree that Kung Fu is an accepted term both in America and China, but like you said, we can disagree. The term Wu Shu is now more related with the system that Jet Li has studied. See, you have to communicate with terms that people understand. If you went to France would you expect everyone to understand American slang? Of course not, you would use terms they understand, that is my point. I have studied "Kung Fu" since I was 7 years old. I understand the culture, religion, tradition, and word usage. French Fries are not from France, do you still use that term even though its not actually "correct" ? Yes, because its accepted, and if you ordered fried potatoe sticks in McDonald's they would probaby ask you what you wanted.


7sm


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## Kenpobuff (Mar 1, 2005)

Our old system was:

White, Yellow, Orange, Purple, Blue, Green, 3 degrees of brown, 10 degrees of black.

Our new belt system is now:

2 degrees of White (green stripes)
2 degrees of Green (brown stripes)
3 degrees of Brown (black stripes)
10 degrees of Black (red stripes)-for all practical purposes only 6-7 degrees of black.

I was told that they changed this belt ranking to take it back to a more "traditional" time, much like described by CTHULHU's post on the first page.  

We are a "traditional" (what ever that is) kenpo system with influences from our founder's training days in Japan.  We have no child black belts or watered down techs for the kids.  The kids learn the same system the adults do.


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## Jerry (Mar 1, 2005)

It's rather wierd to hear "traditional belts" and have taht defended with "no kid black-belts".

The colored-belt system that most JMA / KMA schools derive from was started by Kano, who used it to tell relative skill of students across a diverse population when he created Judo... for school children.

The belt system was made for an art that was made to be PE for Japanese kids.


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## ginshun (Mar 1, 2005)

Our school goes white, yellow, green, blue, orange, brown, black and then the levels of black.

 There is no rules on uniforms, but most of us were all a black gi.  The people that don't just were a tee-shirt and sweats.

 I think that we are a lot less formal on the belts than most places.  There is no formal tests for our belts, when our teacher feels we have attained a cetain level of proficiency, he just tells you that you are a <insert color here> belt and gives you a belt and certificate.


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## masherdong (Mar 1, 2005)

White, Yellow, Orange, Purple, Blue, Green, 1st brown, 2nd brown, 3rd brown, and black.


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## FearlessFreep (Mar 1, 2005)

White, Orange, Yellow, Green, Blue, Purple, Red, Brown, Black


----------



## theletch1 (Mar 1, 2005)

White
go-kyu=yellow
yon-kyu=blue
san-kyu=green
ni-kyu=purple
i-kyu=brown
six levels of black, white gi until sho-dan then you're authorized to wear hakama but these are rarely worn as they tend to hide your footwork.  When you're instructing you want others to see your feet.


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## chinto01 (Mar 1, 2005)

Ours is white,yellow,orange,green,blue,purple,brown, black


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## asangria (Mar 1, 2005)

Tai Kenpo : White, Orange, Purple, Blue, Green, Red, Brown (3 degrees), Black


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## Aaron Little (Mar 1, 2005)

We do not use belts or really any form of ranking.  There is no need. You learn real quick who is better than you at a given skill.


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## MichiganTKD (Mar 1, 2005)

Keeping in mind that even within WTF Tae Kwon Do schools there will be variations of belt color, our belt colors are as follows:

White
Yellow
Yellow-green (some instructors use orange)
Low green
High green
Low blue
High blue
Low red (Red 4, red 3)
High red (red 2, red 1)
Black 1st Dan-9th Dan
For black belts, we just use standard numbering next to the student's name in Korean. No hash marks please!

As for my opinion regarding non-CMA wearing black uniforms:
 :2xBird2:


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## Rich Parsons (Mar 1, 2005)

MichiganTKD said:
			
		

> As for my opinion regarding non-CMA wearing black uniforms:
> :2xBird2:




 :2xBird2: Some cultures use the Black and then the Red Trim as uniform to distinguish themselves. So  :2xBird2:  and maybe realize not all is as you always see it  :whip: 

Some people


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## terryl965 (Mar 1, 2005)

White, yellow, orange, green, blue, purple, red, red with black stripe, half red/black, black. I believe the color of a belt means nothing except time in the actual test comes from withen kn your knowledge and how you can proform your material. I've seen students that are white belts for life and can out do alot of so called blackbelts. GOD BLESS AMERICA


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## Raewyn (Mar 1, 2005)

White, yellow tip, yellow, green tip, green, blue tip, blue, red tip, red, black tip, black


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## Digger70chall (Mar 1, 2005)

terryl965 said:
			
		

> White, yellow, orange, green, blue, purple, red, red with black stripe, half red/black, black. I believe the color of a belt means nothing except time in the actual test comes from withen kn your knowledge and how you can proform your material. I've seen students that are white belts for life and can out do alot of so called blackbelts. GOD BLESS AMERICA


 wow i thought i was going to read thru 6 pages of this and see that nobody uses the same belt system as my school.  We have lotsa belt ranking but we split up classes between groups white-orange, green-purple, and red-black, then of course black belt only classes.  We wear the traditional white TKD uniform until about a year then we have the option of a black uniform.  Instructors wear a red top or black+yellow uniform.  Good thread, i new there were many different ways to rank students but this is crazy.


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## traz (Mar 1, 2005)

My Hapkido school good white, yellow, orange, purple, green, blue, brown, red, black


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## K Williams (Mar 4, 2005)

We start off with no belt. I had to test to get the white belt.

White
Yellow
Yellow w/stripe
Blue
Blue w/stripe
Green
Green w/stripe
Brown
Brown w/stripe
Black
Black w/degrees afterward


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## shane23ss (Mar 4, 2005)

My school:

white belt
yellow
orange
1st blue (1 black stripe)
2nd blue (2 back stripes)
3rd blue (3 black stripes)
green
brown
black/dan (10 degrees to black. 1st degree no stripe or 1 red stripe, 2 red stripes for 2nd degree and so on).


----------



## lulflo (Mar 4, 2005)

White
Orange
Yellow
Green
Purple
Blue
Brown
Red
Half Black
Black
Black belt ranks first through tenth

Farang - Larry


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## shane23ss (Mar 4, 2005)

Hansson said:
			
		

> Isn't this multicoloured gi mainly a Kenpo thing? Or do karatekas and aikidokas from the traditional schools also wear them in the US?


In my school, students wear a white gi until the level of 1st blue when they change to black. A black belt can wear a black or a red gi. Helps out the new guys when they see some one without a belt. If that person is wearing a black gi, then he/she is a blue, green, brown, or black belt. If that person is wearing a red gi, then they are black belt.


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## BrandiJo (Mar 4, 2005)

White
 orange (low high)
 green (low high)
 blue (low high)
 brown (low high)
 recomended black (6 months to test or you go back to brown)
 black (and dans)


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## 47MartialMan (Mar 5, 2005)

Varied from systems that I had studied:

In one system
yel, org, blu, gr, purp, brwn blk

In another,
yel, org, gr, blu, purp, brwn, red, blk

In another,
yel, red, brn, blk

In another,
blk, brwn, purp, yel, white-being the highest

In another,
yel-instructor    blk-student

In another,
none


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## eismann31 (May 19, 2006)

In Nahate Goju Ryu Karate-Do taught by Stone Dragone, the belt order is as follows:

white, yellow, blue, green, purple, brown and 10 dans of black....

There are 4 stripes between each belt, but no formal testing.  The stripes are usually the color of the next higher belt.  

I did not get far enough in either the Tae Kwon Do that I learned in South Korea nor Judo to learn their complete belt orders....

All I know is that the TKD started with white, yellow and blue, respectively.


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## green meanie (May 19, 2006)

In Earth Dragon we use the following format:

Teens & Adults: White - Green - Brown - Black
Children: White - Yellow - Orange - Green - Blue - Purple - Brown


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## Jade Tigress (May 19, 2006)

In Sil Lum Kung Fu we use white-yellow-green-blue-brown-black..and red is for masters/Sifu's....


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## stone_dragone (May 19, 2006)

I was gonna answer, but eisman31 answered for me...so there!  I would add that it is a 5 kyu system, though.

In the ATA, they have white, orange, yellow, camo, green, purple, blue, Brown, Red, red/Black (poom) and black.  Its a 9 gup system.

In my school in Tennessee, its White, Yellow, Blue, Green, Brown, Black...its a 12 kyu system.


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## IcemanSK (May 19, 2006)

The US Chung Do Kwan Association's belt order is:
White
Yellow
Gold
Orange
Green
Purple
Blue 
Red
Brown
Brown/Black
Black


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## Robert Lee (May 19, 2006)

No belts just levels.


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## Cirdan (May 20, 2006)

These are the belt orders for the clubs I have trained with:

Wado Karate: White, Red, Yellow, Orange, Green, Blue, Purple, Brown, Brown w white stripe, Brown w black stripe, Black.

Ju Jutsu: White, White w yellow stripe, Orange, Green, Blue, Purple, Brown, Black. High ranking dans sometimes wear black/red belts. 

Kobudo: no formal uniform or belt for 6. to 4. kyu. Most wear gis with white belts or normal training clothes. If you have a rank in another art you are allowed to wear the appropriate belt. At 3. kyu a hakama may be worn. At 1. dans usually wear blue shirts with the hakama, but this is not required. Some have decorated shirts.


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## eismann31 (May 21, 2006)

stone_dragone said:
			
		

> I was gonna answer, but eisman31 answered for me...so there!  I would add that it is a 5 kyu system, though.
> 
> In the ATA, they have white, orange, yellow, camo, green, purple, blue, Brown, Red, red/Black (poom) and black.  Its a 9 gup system.
> 
> In my school in Tennessee, its White, Yellow, Blue, Green, Brown, Black...its a 12 kyu system.


What is ATA?!?  What is poom? What is gup??!?!


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## Henderson (May 21, 2006)

Daishizen Goju-Ryu Karate-do

White (w/ up to 3 green stripes)
Green (w/ up to 3 brown stripes)
Brown (w/ up to 3 black stripes)
Black  (never adourned w/ any stripes)


----------



## lhommedieu (May 21, 2006)

I've had a few different experiences with belts.

In the Chinese martial art that I study there are three levels, but it's just taken for granted that you're a perpetual student.

In Kajukenbo you get your Black Belt after testing - but then you get your "Black Belt First Degree" after more training and testing (generally a couple more years).  A lot of other systems just call your first Black Belt a "1st Degree Black Belt."  Black Belt 3rd Degree (Sifu) is the teaching rank.

In San Miguel Eskrima we decided on levels but called them "green belt," "brown belt," and "black belt" for the sake of students who were more confortable with the belt system.  Once you get to Black Belt level you don't have to wear your belt anymore.

Best,

Steve Lamade


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## bluemtn (May 22, 2006)

At my school, it goes:  white, yellow, green, purple, brown, black.


----------



## KenpoSterre (Aug 8, 2006)

Our list is very long and it takes a very logn time to get to blackbelt. Black Belt is teaching level though most choose to start teaching after they hit second or third. In my school (Kenpo Karate Mitchell System) we have

White Belt
Yellow Belt 8th Class
Orange Belt 7th Class
Purple Belt 6th class
Blue Belt 5th Class
Green Belt 4th Class
Brown Belt 3rd Class
Brown Belt 2nd Class
Brown Belt 1rst Class  
Black Belt First Degree Junior instructor
Black Belt Second Degree Associate Instructor
Black Belt Third Degree Head Instructor
Black Belt Fourth Degree Senior Instructor
Black Belt Fifth Degree Associate Professor
Black Belt Sixth Degree Professor
Black Belt Seventh Degree Senior Professor
Black Belt Eight Degree Associate Master of The Arts
Black Belt Ninth Degree Master of The Arts
Black Belt Tenth Degree Senior Master of The Arts


----------



## matt.m (Aug 8, 2006)

White, yellow, orange, green, blue, purple, brown, red, and black.


----------



## tradrockrat (Aug 8, 2006)

sure what the heck

ABA Bando:

none
white
green 
brown
black 1st level - 9th


----------



## Keikai (Aug 8, 2006)

Children
White
White - Yellow Tip
White - Blue Tip
White - Green Tip
White - Orange Tip

Adults
White
White - Purple Tip
Red
Yellow
Blue
Green
Orange
Purple
Black & White Stripe
Black 1st - 5th dan
Red & White 6th - 8th dan
Red (double width) 9th - 10th dan

Greg Palmer
Tsutsumi Ryu Ju Jutsu


----------



## Brandon Fisher (Aug 9, 2006)

Here is the Seijitsu Shin Do ranking system:
White
Yellow (9th Kyu)
Orange (8th Kyu)
Green w/ White Stripe (7th Kyu)
Green (6th Kyu)
Blue w/ White Stripe (5th Kyu)
Blue (4th Kyu)
Purple w/ white stripe (3rd Kyu)
Purple (2nd Kyu)
Brown (1st Kyu)
Black Shodan - Judan

5th and 6th Dans may wear a renshi belt (red and white split)
7th and 8th dans may wear a kyoshi belt (red and white blocked)
9th and 10 dans may wear a red belt


----------



## annie (Aug 9, 2006)

White
Yellow
Orange
Purple
Blue
Blue Stripe
Green 
Green Stripe
Brown
Brown 1 stripe
Brown 2 Stripe
Brown 3 stripe
Black
Black 1-10 Stripe


----------



## J-Man (Aug 9, 2006)

white
blue 
purple
brown 
black


----------



## w.kaer (Aug 12, 2006)

When Chuck Norris says "More cowbell," he means it!


----------



## J-Man (Aug 12, 2006)

w.kaer said:
			
		

> When Chuck Norris says "More cowbell," he means it!



LOL...I got a fever. And the only perscription, is more cowbell!


----------



## fnorfurfoot (Aug 12, 2006)

annie said:
			
		

> White
> Yellow
> Orange
> Purple
> ...


 
Same here.


----------



## delicate Flower (Aug 12, 2006)

In our system, Matusumura Kenpo Shorin Ryu, we go as follows
10th kyu White
9th kyu Yellow with one green stripe
8th kyu Yellow with two green stripes
7th kyu Yellow with 3 green stripe
6th kyu Green with one brown stripe
5th kyu Green with 2 brown stripes
4th kyu Green with 3 brown stripes
3rd Kyu Brown with 1 black stripe
2nd Kyu Brown with 2 black stripes
1st kyu Brown with 3 black stripes
Black belt


----------



## RheaHS (Aug 13, 2006)

Ishin Ryu Jujitsu
Infants - All white belts with stripe through. 
White Yellow Orange Green Blue Purple Brown Black

Juniors - Broken up with black stripes between each main colour
White Yellow Orange Green Blue Purple Brown

Adults

Red (novice) 
8th kyu White (red stripe)
7th Yellow
6th Orange
5th Green
4th Blue
3rd Purple
2nd Brown
1st Brown/Black stripe
Shodan Ho
Black belt


----------



## mjd (Aug 13, 2006)

Kids 4-7
10-0 White
10-1 White yellow center stripe
10-2 white green center stripe
10-3 white purple center stripe
10-4 white orange cneter stripe
10-5 white black center stripe
8 to adult Gups
10 White
9 White black tip stripe
8 orange
7 orange white tip stripe
6 green
5 green white tip stripe
4 brown 
3 brown white tip stripe
2 red
1 red white tip stripe
black belt canidate - mid-night blue
Black belts 1-5 (non master)
masters belts black red center stripe 4-7


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## lll000000lll (Aug 14, 2006)

in my art there are not belts, but that is because it is more of a concept then a style. and it is a very young martial art. its only been around since the 60's. i do train muay thai and alittle bjj. and in muay thai there are belts, but only for champions of the sport. not for rankings


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## pstarr (Aug 14, 2006)

Although we practice a Chinese system, we use belt-ranking structure.  Our structure is not dissimilar to that used in other martial disciplines:

White
Yellow
Blue
Green
Brown
Black


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## phatbway (Dec 8, 2009)

White
Yellow
Orange
Green
blue
purple
red
brown
black.................


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## ralphmcpherson (Dec 9, 2009)

white , yellow 1st , yellow 2nd , blue 1st , blue 2nd , blue 3rd , red 1st , red 2nd , red 3rd , black.


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## Tensei85 (Dec 9, 2009)

In TKD we did

White, Yellow stripe
Yellow, Green stripe
Green, Blue stripe
Blue, Red stripe
Red, Black stripe
Black, Red stripe...


In Judo & JJJ

White 
Orange
Green
Brown, 3 stripes
Black

In a W.C. system I trained in

White
Yellow
Green
Blue
Purple
Brown
Red, 1 stripe
Black


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## ATC (Dec 9, 2009)

White
Yellow
Orange
2x Green
2x Blue
2x Purple
3x Red
2x Brown
9x Black


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## kingkong89 (Dec 9, 2009)

White-yellow-blue-green-purple-red-brown-black


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## Milt G. (Dec 9, 2009)

Hello...
In many Kenpo systems...

White (Kukyu)
Yellow (Hachikyu)
Orange (Shichikyu)
Purple (Rokkyu)
Blue (Gokyu) 
Green (Yonkyu)

3rd Brown (Sankyu)
2nd Brown (Nikyu)
1st Brown (Ikkyu)

1st Black (Shodan)
2nd Black (Nidan)
3rd Black (Sandan)
4th Black (Yodan)
5th Black (Godan)

6th Black (Rokudan)
7th Black (Shichidan)
8th Black (Hachidan)
9th Black (Kudan)
10th Black (Judan)

Thank you,
Milt G.


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