# Hurt my wrist - Blog post



## Xue Sheng (Nov 1, 2017)

Hurt my wrist - blog post


----------



## Marnetmar (Nov 2, 2017)

Sounds like wrist tendonitis which takes a long time to heal. I would advise taking some time off and doing forward-and-back wrist curls with _low weight_ (5-10 lb) dumbbells and high reps a few times daily to gain strength back in that wrist before you start punching or (especially) doing palm strikes again.

I'd also recommend keeping at it once you're back to punching again and slowly increasing the weight.

One other thing: when you're doing palm strikes, is your wrist all the way flexed before you make contact?


----------



## Xue Sheng (Nov 2, 2017)

Marnetmar said:


> Sounds like wrist tendonitis which takes a long time to heal. I would advise taking some time off and doing forward-and-back wrist curls with _low weight_ (5-10 lb) dumbbells and high reps a few times daily to gain strength back in that wrist before you start punching or (especially) doing palm strikes again.
> 
> I'd also recommend keeping at it once you're back to punching again and slowly increasing the weight.
> 
> One other thing: when you're doing palm strikes, is your wrist all the way flexed before you make contact?



Thanks

Only hurt my wrist using the boxing gloves, had not hurt my wrist ever before in the over 40 years I have been hitting stuff; heavy bag, wall, strike pads, trees, etc.. Also had never used boxing gloves in the over 40 years I had been hitting stuff either.

It was one hit and a sharp pain.... no pain doing anything else, unless I but pressure on it with my wrist flexed.

Also getting acupuncture.


----------



## Flying Crane (Nov 2, 2017)

Personally, I suspect the extra padding in boxing gloves can cause things to go wonky when you hit a heavy bag. Maybe it’s harder to know if you have your wrist lined up properly.  Perhaps that is another reason boxers tape their wrists, for extra support and protection from such an injury that using the gloves can contribute to.

Don’t use boxing glove without also taping wrists.


----------



## drop bear (Nov 2, 2017)

Wrist alignment is very important when punching with gloves on. And yes more danger of a bent wrist with gloves than without.

When you hook the bag. dont hit the side. Hit the front a little bit.

7 Injury Prevention Tips When Punching The Heavy Bag


----------



## JowGaWolf (Nov 2, 2017)

Xue Sheng said:


> Hurt my wrist - blog post


  Funny tagline on the text. (not your injury)  "How to tell the difference between a Wrist Sprain and a Wrist Fracture."  I'm pretty sure there is a huge difference and not one that can easily be confused.  Fractures feel like breaks and the first thing that comes to mind is "I think I broke my wrist." lol.  Wiki How can be strange WebMD would probably be the better reference guide.


----------



## JowGaWolf (Nov 2, 2017)

Xue Sheng said:


> Only hurt my wrist using the boxing gloves


 Boxing gloves doesn't allow you to make the correct fist and alignment that you normally make when you don't have gloves on. The other problem is that you have a larger area of impact which means that hitting off center on the glove can cause stress on your wrist that you don't get without gloves.   As a martial artist, I hate boxing gloves.  When I wear boxing gloves I don't tape my wrist which is just a lot of Stupid on my part especially since I know the risks of using those gloves without tape.

From what you stated it sounds as if you didn't get "dead center" of the glove and the alignment of your wrist.  If you had a fractured wrist then it wouldn't matter if your wrist was flexed or not or if pressure was on it.  It would hurt even if you didn't do anything, especially after flexing and putting pressure on a fracture. It may be possible that you tore something in your wrist.


----------



## Bill Mattocks (Nov 2, 2017)

Sorry you are hurting. I recommend isshinryu fist formation. Thumb on top locks wrist in place.


----------



## Gerry Seymour (Nov 2, 2017)

JowGaWolf said:


> Funny tagline on the text. (not your injury)  "How to tell the difference between a Wrist Sprain and a Wrist Fracture."  I'm pretty sure there is a huge difference and not one that can easily be confused.  Fractures feel like breaks and the first thing that comes to mind is "I think I broke my wrist." lol.  Wiki How can be strange WebMD would probably be the better reference guide.


I don't know. I had a fractured leg bone that was actually misdiagnosed as a high ankle sprain. I assume something similar is possible for the arm.


----------



## Gerry Seymour (Nov 2, 2017)

Bill Mattocks said:


> Sorry you are hurting. I recommend isshinryu fist formation. Thumb on top locks wrist in place.


That's an interesting point, Bill. I don't notice a difference in my wrist when I put the thumb there. What am I missing?


----------



## JowGaWolf (Nov 2, 2017)

gpseymour said:


> I don't know. I had a fractured leg bone that was actually misdiagnosed as a high ankle sprain. I assume something similar is possible for the arm.


Did it feel like a sprain?


----------



## JowGaWolf (Nov 2, 2017)

gpseymour said:


> That's an interesting point, Bill. I don't notice a difference in my wrist when I put the thumb there. What am I missing?


Make your normal fist, then make the fist that Bill is talking about.  You should be able to see how the bones in your hand align.  You may need to turn your hand so you can get a lateral view of your hand.


----------



## drop bear (Nov 2, 2017)

JowGaWolf said:


> Funny tagline on the text. (not your injury)  "How to tell the difference between a Wrist Sprain and a Wrist Fracture."  I'm pretty sure there is a huge difference and not one that can easily be confused.  Fractures feel like breaks and the first thing that comes to mind is "I think I broke my wrist." lol.  Wiki How can be strange WebMD would probably be the better reference guide.



Yeah. It is called an x ray.


----------



## Gerry Seymour (Nov 3, 2017)

JowGaWolf said:


> Did it feel like a sprain?


It hurt like hell, that's all I knew. I'd never had a high ankle sprain before, so didn't know what to expect it to feel like. The area of pain is similar - there's a muscle attachment point very near where the fracture was.


----------



## Gerry Seymour (Nov 3, 2017)

JowGaWolf said:


> Make your normal fist, then make the fist that Bill is talking about.  You should be able to see how the bones in your hand align.  You may need to turn your hand so you can get a lateral view of your hand.


I don't get much of a change. It might be because my hand is trained to the other way.


----------



## Gerry Seymour (Nov 3, 2017)

drop bear said:


> Yeah. It is called an x ray.


Even with an X-ray, DB. It took a specialist to correct the diagnosis the original doctor gave from the X-ray of my ankle.


----------



## Xue Sheng (Nov 3, 2017)

The second time I broke my ankle I discovered it was the second time. I was not aware I had broken it before. But I did know when it happened. Remembered a whole lot of pain.


----------



## drop bear (Nov 3, 2017)

gpseymour said:


> Even with an X-ray, DB. It took a specialist to correct the diagnosis the original doctor gave from the X-ray of my ankle.



Wow. Mine just had a big obvious crack in the bone.


----------



## Gerry Seymour (Nov 3, 2017)

drop bear said:


> Wow. Mine just had a big obvious crack in the bone.


Apparently, mine was less obvious. When I went to the orthoped, he grabbed my leg right where it was injured. I yelped, and he said, "Yep, you broke your leg." Apparently, that's much more definitive than an X-ray.


----------



## Bill Mattocks (Nov 3, 2017)

gpseymour said:


> That's an interesting point, Bill. I don't notice a difference in my wrist when I put the thumb there. What am I missing?



Making a traditional fist, clench tightly, and then try to move the hand to the left and the right using the other hand to grip the hand making the fist.  It's hard, but it can be done, especially moving the hand backwards towards the forearm.  Now repeat with the thumb on top, pressing down with the thumb on the top knuckle.  Try to rotate the fist with the other hand again.  It should be much more difficult to move, and not that much 'thumb pressure' is required to create that 'lock'.

I have experimented quite a bit with fist formation, given my age and relatively poor conditioning of my knuckles and so on.  By repeatedly hitting the bag at various speeds and with various amounts of power, my goals have been to have a more relaxed punch (until the very moment of impact), keep my wrist straight to avoid hurting it, and to avoid hurting my knuckles or the budding arthritis in my finger joints.

One thing I am absolutely certain of is that the Isshinryu punch we practice is vital for keep my wrist stabilized and having a relaxed punch until the moment of impact.  I cannot claim this is true for every human being, but it has always been the transmitted wisdom among Isshinryu karateka and I have also found it to be so.  Many think the unique thing about the Isshinryu fist is that it is vertical and delivered without a turning motion, and this is true, but to me what really matters is that thumb on top.  Especially the light pressure that serves to lock the wrist (it also helps to turn the fist ever-so-slightly downwards, so that the top two knuckles hit first, which is our way).

The funny thing is, I've heard criticism of the IR fist for being 'vertical' all the time, which in practice it is not.  We don't torque it, true, but we turn it to fit the circumstances.  I would not deliver a vertical fist as an uppercut for example.  But the fist formation remains the same in all cases.


----------



## JowGaWolf (Nov 3, 2017)

gpseymour said:


> Apparently, mine was less obvious. When I went to the orthoped, he grabbed my leg right where it was injured. I yelped, and he said, "Yep, you broke your leg." Apparently, that's much more definitive than an X-ray.


I never understood my doctor.  I went to him in paint and then right before he grabbed my ankle he says.  "Let me know if this hurts"


----------



## Gerry Seymour (Nov 3, 2017)

Bill Mattocks said:


> Making a traditional fist, clench tightly, and then try to move the hand to the left and the right using the other hand to grip the hand making the fist.  It's hard, but it can be done, especially moving the hand backwards towards the forearm.  Now repeat with the thumb on top, pressing down with the thumb on the top knuckle.  Try to rotate the fist with the other hand again.  It should be much more difficult to move, and not that much 'thumb pressure' is required to create that 'lock'.
> 
> I have experimented quite a bit with fist formation, given my age and relatively poor conditioning of my knuckles and so on.  By repeatedly hitting the bag at various speeds and with various amounts of power, my goals have been to have a more relaxed punch (until the very moment of impact), keep my wrist straight to avoid hurting it, and to avoid hurting my knuckles or the budding arthritis in my finger joints.
> 
> ...


Ah! Now I see what you mean. I haven't experimented much with that fist style. I might give it more consideration. I'll see how it works with the torquing punch (our "starter" punch, though not my personal go-to).


----------



## Gerry Seymour (Nov 3, 2017)

JowGaWolf said:


> I never understood my doctor.  I went to him in paint and then right before he grabbed my ankle he says.  "Let me know if this hurts"


Well, in fairness to that doctor, he was right, and I wasn't in so much pain going in. I'd actually been walking on it two weeks, then two weeks on crutches (the latter while waiting for the appointment with him).


----------



## JowGaWolf (Nov 3, 2017)

gpseymour said:


> I don't get much of a change. It might be because my hand is trained to the other way.


 If the bones line up then it's a big change if they weren't lined up before.  You may be able to tell the difference if you do knuckle push ups.

Edit.  You may also notice a difference when flexing the wrist.


----------



## Bill Mattocks (Nov 3, 2017)

gpseymour said:


> Ah! Now I see what you mean. I haven't experimented much with that fist style. I might give it more consideration. I'll see how it works with the torquing punch (our "starter" punch, though not my personal go-to).



I believe it would work just as well with a torquing punch, although I have not tried it.


----------



## JowGaWolf (Nov 3, 2017)

gpseymour said:


> Well, in fairness to that doctor, he was right, and I wasn't in so much pain going in. I'd actually been walking on it two weeks, then two weeks on crutches (the latter while waiting for the appointment with him).


You get the He-Man award for walking on a broken ankle for 2 weeks.  You are definitely an exception.

You may look the same, but you aren't.


----------



## Gerry Seymour (Nov 3, 2017)

Bill Mattocks said:


> I believe it would work just as well with a torquing punch, although I have not tried it.


I can't see why it wouldn't. The more problematic thought is that I'm so used to the other fist, I might leave my thumb hanging out while I'm learning a new habit.


----------



## Gerry Seymour (Nov 3, 2017)

JowGaWolf said:


> You get the He-Man award for walking on a broken ankle for 2 weeks.  You are definitely an exception.
> 
> You may look the same, but you aren't.


Don't get me wrong - it hurt and I whined about it. My wife will tell you I'm not quiet about being sick or injured. But I am used to my legs hurting. I've had knee problems since I was 16, and haven't walked up or down a stair in 10 years without feeling every one.

EDIT: See? Whining.


----------



## Bill Mattocks (Nov 3, 2017)

gpseymour said:


> I can't see why it wouldn't. The more problematic thought is that I'm so used to the other fist, I might leave my thumb hanging out while I'm learning a new habit.


One of the things I see from time to time with new students is that when they place the thumb on top of the fist, they let it protrude over the knuckle it presses down on.  That can indeed lead to a painful punch and a jammed thumb.  Although, intentionally pushing the thumb out even further is another form of 'ichi' punch, as opposed to a single protruding knuckle, for those who practice such punches.  It has to be delivered with intent and some amount of caution, however,


----------



## JowGaWolf (Nov 3, 2017)

gpseymour said:


> I can't see why it wouldn't. The more problematic thought is that I'm so used to the other fist, I might leave my thumb hanging out while I'm learning a new habit.


A trick that I use with kids to keep that from happening is to take a small piece of tissue (small enough to see but not get in the way) under the thumb.  I tell them to hold that piece of tissue in place with their thumb.   It helps them to break any natural tendencies to move the thumb out of place.


----------



## Gerry Seymour (Nov 3, 2017)

JowGaWolf said:


> A trick that I use with kids to keep that from happening is to take a small piece of tissue (small enough to see but not get in the way) under the thumb.  I tell them to hold that piece of tissue in place with their thumb.   It helps them to break any natural tendencies to move the thumb out of place.


So now you're saying I'm like a child. Earlier, I was He Man. That's one heck of a downgrade, JGW!


----------



## JowGaWolf (Nov 3, 2017)

gpseymour said:


> So now you're saying I'm like a child. Earlier, I was He Man. That's one heck of a downgrade, JGW!


lol.. noooooo.  The adults don't get tissue.  They get this when they get it wrong.  The funny thing is that when I say No, I never tell them what's wrong.  I make them figure it out on their own. lol  I figure that since I'm not there to yell no at you, that the tissue would be the next best thing lol.


----------



## Xue Sheng (Nov 3, 2017)

JowGaWolf said:


> You get the He-Man award for walking on a broken ankle for 2 weeks.  You are definitely an exception.
> 
> You may look the same, but you aren't.



Not looking for an award but the first time i broke my ankle, which I did not discover I had until the 2nd time I broke my ankle, it happened training long fist (as did the 2nd time). I wanted to go to the ER, because walking was not easy and I had to go to work and I walked a lot at that job. I needed permission from my MD to go to the ER because that is what my insurance required... and my MD said no and made an appointment to see me...in 2 weeks. 

I went out, got an ankle brace and some compression socks. I had a pair of black paratrooper boots that zipped up that I could wear with my uniform (hospital security). So I put on the sock, the brace, and laced the boot up tight and went to work. 2 weeks later the MD told me I was wasting his time by coming in because there was nothing wrong with me. 3 weeks later I had a new MD. 

When I broke it the 2nd time and I told the ER doc (different insurance then) what had happened, he said of course if got better, you made your own cast.


----------



## Gerry Seymour (Nov 3, 2017)

Xue Sheng said:


> Not looking for an award but the first time i broke my ankle, which I did not discover I had until the 2nd time I broke my ankle, it happened training long fist (as did the 2nd time). I wanted to go to the ER, because walking was not easy and I had to go to work and I walked a lot at that job. I needed permission from my MD to go to the ER because that is what my insurance required... and my MD said no and made an appointment to see me...in 2 weeks.
> 
> I went out, got an ankle brace and some compression socks. I had a pair of black paratrooper boots that zipped up that I could wear with my uniform (hospital security). So I put on the sock, the brace, and laced the boot up tight and went to work. 2 weeks later the MD told me I was wasting his time by coming in because there was nothing wrong with me. 3 weeks later I had a new MD.
> 
> When I broke it the 2nd time and I told the ER doc (different insurance then) what had happened, he said of course if got better, you made your own cast.


That's probably what would have happened with mine if I hadn't had easy access to healthcare. It did hurt, and probably hurt me more, because I couldn't wear boots like that (they look like crap with a suit), but probably wasn't any worse than yours.


----------



## JowGaWolf (Nov 3, 2017)

Xue Sheng said:


> Not looking for an award but the first time i broke my ankle, which I did not discover I had until the 2nd time I broke my ankle, it happened training long fist (as did the 2nd time). I wanted to go to the ER, because walking was not easy and I had to go to work and I walked a lot at that job. I needed permission from my MD to go to the ER because that is what my insurance required... and my MD said no and made an appointment to see me...in 2 weeks.
> 
> I went out, got an ankle brace and some compression socks. I had a pair of black paratrooper boots that zipped up that I could wear with my uniform (hospital security). So I put on the sock, the brace, and laced the boot up tight and went to work. 2 weeks later the MD told me I was wasting his time by coming in because there was nothing wrong with me. 3 weeks later I had a new MD.
> 
> When I broke it the 2nd time and I told the ER doc (different insurance then) what had happened, he said of course if got better, you made your own cast.


I can't stand when insurance companies do stuff like that.  First time I've heard of needing permission to go to the ER.  Good thing you didn't get hit by a car first.
I have a special treat for you.  
Insurance companies are like this little girl in this video who says "I'll give you food." except they say "I'll cover your health expenses."  Then if they cover anything, it's a only a small percentage.  Which is about the same size of the food that the little girl throws at the monkey.   The monkey has the same expression that you would get when you see that the basically covered nothing. You try to stay calm as you talk to them on the phone, because you know you this can't be right.  Then they come up with some straight up BS about how you either didn't meet your deductible or how you didn't go through their process for getting injured.  For example:  they will only cover a broken ankle if you get permission from a doctor who doesn't know what he's or she is doing, but that's only if your break  your ankle between the hours of 3pm and 3:30pm, on a Sunday on an odd day of October.  So at the :20 second mark you flip out on the insurance representative on the phone. And that's when your brain goes into planning mode and tells you.  How you really feel.

So in honor of that insurance company and the doctor I present this video to you which represents the Justice we all deserve to see.


----------



## Xue Sheng (Nov 3, 2017)

gpseymour said:


> That's probably what would have happened with mine if I hadn't had easy access to healthcare. It did hurt, and probably hurt me more, because I couldn't wear boots like that (they look like crap with a suit), but probably wasn't any worse than yours.



That was the second time, looked like I had a softball growing out of my ankle


----------



## Buka (Nov 4, 2017)

Xue, I'd continue with the acupuncture. Takes some time with wrists - especially _old_ wrists, but it works great if you stay with it.

As for new gloves - if it ain't broke, my brother, don't fix it.


----------



## Encho (Nov 4, 2017)

Wonder what points your wife is using, No Woodlock? Maybe Woodlock is more of a Cantonese thing.


----------



## drop bear (Nov 4, 2017)

There are gloves with really good wrist support. I always try to find the best I can.


----------



## Xue Sheng (Nov 4, 2017)

Buka said:


> Xue, I'd continue with the acupuncture. Takes some time with wrists - especially _old_ wrists, but it works great if you stay with it.
> 
> As for new gloves - if it ain't broke, my brother, don't fix it.



HEY!!!! WHOSE WRIST YOU CALLIN' OLD!!!!!!! 

Pretty much my thought...if it ain't broke, don't fix it...well...at least that is my thought now



Encho said:


> Wonder what points your wife is using, No Woodlock? Maybe Woodlock is more of a Cantonese thing.



I have no idea, would you have the characters for that?

She is Beijingren and she used 4 points by the way


----------



## Encho (Nov 5, 2017)

黄道益活络油


----------

