# ninjutsu or kobudo?



## Inazuma (Jul 23, 2010)

Most people on this forum are in the X-kans and say they do "ninjutsu".  However, only a small % of the schools we study are actually nunjitsu.The majority of the ryu-ha our organizations study are actually "kobudo" (old warrior ways, or classical Japanese martial arts).  Does anyone use this term to describe their training?  Why or why not?  Are you even familiar with it?


----------



## Bill Mattocks (Jul 23, 2010)

Inazuma said:


> Most people on this forum are in the X-kans and say they do "ninjutsu".  However, only a small % of the schools we study are actually nunjitsu.The majority of the ryu-ha our organizations study are actually "kobudo" (old warrior ways, or classical Japanese martial arts).  Does anyone use this term to describe their training?  Why or why not?  Are you even familiar with it?



I think it means 'ham and eggs on rye' doesn't it?


----------



## Tanaka (Jul 23, 2010)

I thought ninjutsu was Koryu as well?


----------



## ElfTengu (Jul 24, 2010)

Tanaka said:


> I thought ninjutsu was Koryu as well?


 
Don't even GO there, you'll wish you had never asked.

Getting our ninjutsu ryuha recognised as koryuha is like getting Robin Hood added to official English history books.

Kobudo is a term Soke uses often, there is even a DVD called Kobudo no Kihon, but because the term kobudo is more widely associated with the weapons side of karate and nunchucks, it is probably best not used too much, especially on forums, to avoid confusion between ko-budo and kobu-do.


----------



## asuki (Jul 25, 2010)

i am new at this, however isn't it technically Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu... so why not call it simply Taijutsu?


----------



## ElfTengu (Jul 25, 2010)

asuki said:


> i am new at this, however isn't it technically Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu... so why not call it simply Taijutsu?


 
Because taijutsu is a generic term used by other schools that have nothing to do any of the Xkans.

Taijutsu in fact is interchangeable with Jujutsu, Yawara and several other terms. But you will get used to all this nonsense.


----------



## asuki (Jul 25, 2010)

okay. Wow. Guess I am just going to call it simply Bujinkan then. Easiest. I like to avoid the N word.


----------



## newtothe dark (Jul 26, 2010)

asuki said:


> okay. Wow. Guess I am just going to call it simply Bujinkan then. Easiest. I like to avoid the N word.


 
Probably a good plan


----------



## ElfTengu (Jul 26, 2010)

asuki said:


> okay. Wow. Guess I am just going to call it simply Bujinkan then. Easiest. I like to avoid the N word.


 
Or 'Budo Taijutsu', I don't think anyone else uses these two words in combination. Ninpo Taijutsu is shared with other orgs however.

Unfortunately the term 'Bujinkan' has negative connotations in the wider martial arts world due to quality control issues and some of our supposedly top practitioners not being able to definitively bludgeon a couple of non-weapons-trained martial artists with a padded stick on TV.

And the addition of 'Budo' means that you won't get people like that UFC commentator who said taijutsu was called taijutsu because it is a mixture of Thai Boxing and Jujitsu (he probably spelled it Thaijitsu the oaf!).

For me, I call it Jujutsu, because it is interchangeable with taijutsu, and because the term is associated with arts that have a better reputation, e.g. BJJ, and for some reason other schools of Jujutsu/jujitsu/jiujitsu do not seem to have received hardly any flack compared to the ninjesque versions.


----------



## Bruno@MT (Jul 26, 2010)

ElfTengu said:


> Or 'Budo Taijutsu', I don't think anyone else uses these two words in combination. Ninpo Taijutsu is shared with other orgs however.
> 
> Unfortunately the term 'Bujinkan' has negative connotations in the wider martial arts world due to quality control issues and some of our supposedly top practitioners not being able to definitively bludgeon a couple of non-weapons-trained martial artists with a padded stick on TV.
> 
> ...



Well, to be honest, and without wanting to start a flamewar...
I think the major reason that Bujinkan draws flak is the fact that people such as Richard Van Donk, Charless Burgess, Mountainous, and others are allowed to exist and even flourish under the Bujinkan organization despite the ridiculous things they do in public view.

For the sake of the argument I'll compare it to the Genbukan. If people in Genbukan get fancy ideas, they are dealt with decisively. Either they get back in the fold or they get kicked out. There is no waffling about and certainly no turning a blind eye and allowing such people to tarnish the Genbukan name.

By not eliminating such undesirables from the Bujinkan, Hatsumi sensei is effectively saying that what they are doing represents Bujinkan. And if I wouldn't know any better, I would form the same opinion.

Imo it has nothing to do with not beating the crap out of other people inside an octagon. Most traditional schools including Genbukan don't go for such things either, and they don't get ridiculed, or at least not to the extent that Bujinkan does. The simple reason is that Bujinkan is imo the only legit organization where the people like I mentioned above are allowed to exist.


----------



## ElfTengu (Jul 26, 2010)

Bruno@MT said:


> Well, to be honest, and without wanting to start a flamewar...
> I think the major reason that Bujinkan draws flak is the fact that people such as Richard Van Donk, Charless Burgess, Mountainous, and others are allowed to exist and even flourish under the Bujinkan organization despite the ridiculous things they do in public view.


 
You're not wrong. As for a flame war, anyone who disagrees with you should consider themselves automatically on the 'ridiculous' side of the fence in the 'ridiculous' camp.



Bruno@MT said:


> For the sake of the argument I'll compare it to the Genbukan. If people in Genbukan get fancy ideas, they are dealt with decisively. Either they get back in the fold or they get kicked out. There is no waffling about and certainly no turning a blind eye and allowing such people to tarnish the Genbukan name.


 
If people get fancy ideas in the Bujinkan they get promoted. Apparently it has something to do with Japanese social etiquette and that there are people who have been kicked out ages ago but no one has told them and they are still training at Hombu, or they have to find out third or tenth hand from an internet forum that they are out and then cannot get it confirmed. If you are over 10th dan in can be more definitive because you get the Eggs Benedict treatment (Hamon), but again this is rare and reserved largely for people who go and start their own organisation. You must be subject to a different kind of Japanese social etiquette in the Genbukan.  



Bruno@MT said:


> By not eliminating such undesirables from the Bujinkan, Hatsumi sensei is effectively saying that what they are doing represents Bujinkan. And if I wouldn't know any better, I would form the same opinion.


 
I'm not going to diss my art's grandmaster over this, apparently he has a plan, and I have suggested elsewhere that it may be that the best place for excellent ninja to hide, is amongst a vast number of crap ones!


----------

