# Health Care and Being Healthy



## Ronin74 (Mar 25, 2009)

Taking a nod from a few other members, I figured I'd take the initiative to start a new thread regarding the above mentioned topic.



Bill Mattocks said:


> I can't argue with your statements - healthy eating and exercise are more than likely going to extend your lifespan and make it a healthier lifespan at the same time. I doubt many people think otherwise.
> 
> The questions revolve around whether or not that fact entitles people to demand, suggest, cajole, tease, or otherwise bullyrag people into doing what is 'best' for them.
> 
> What if you know the risks and decide you don't care? Is that OK, or must society step in for your own good and MAKE you lose weight and get in shape?


In a simple answer, I say it's no. If a person chooses to be a health nut, out of shape or anything in between, it's their choice, and really not anybody else's business, UNLESS it actually begins to affect somebody else.

As far as health care goes, I personally try to steer onto the side of prevention. Diabeties has had some history in my family, and in all honesty, I'd rather not lend it a hand in how it might affect my life. But that's just me. With regards to paying for insurance, my only concern is that it works for me. Sure it may be an a precaution that's never used, but I was uninssured for several years, and from experience, I can say that free clinics, and alternative health can only help so much. Once a joint is dislocated, the hospital bills really get you thinking.

Now I don't think I should have to pay for anyone else's health care costs, but that's probably one of those kinks that need some serious work.

And as far as trying to eat healthy goes, it's not cheap. People say it's not all that diferent than eating unhealthy, but the fact is, what you're not paying for in bulk and shelf life, you end up paying for in freshness and quality, and it's usually a little bit more. Now would I mind paying for healthier options, not really. I consider myself worth taking care of as well as possible- we don't come with spare parts. However, in the long run, we're looking at more trips to the grocery store, and coming up with money that may or may not ever come. The best thing I could do was fid a midpoint. Costco isn't Trader Joe's or Whole Foods, but just because the quality isn't "fresh" or "free range" doesn't mean it's crap.

Anyhow, that's my two cents.


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## Bill Mattocks (Mar 25, 2009)

One of my objections to eating healthier food is that I don't like the way it tastes.  I mean, I really don't like it.  From my point of view, that's a good enough reason right there to eat what I want.

"Normal" people usually dislike one thing or another.  Some hate broccoli, some hate asparagus, some hate liver, etc, etc.  Some will eat it anyway, on the grounds that it is 'good for them', while others will eschew it and don't bother berating themselves - it's just something they don't like, they avoid it, no problem.  

But take someone who is 'picky' as they call it and the story changes.  Now it is presumed that the person's proclaimed dislike of durn near everything healthy is fake.  Or, they must 'learn to like it'.  Or, they would like it if it they gave it a fair shake.  Or, they would like it if it were only prepared properly - they must have been eating it improperly prepared all this time.  But nobody will grant the picky eater the same luxury they grant themselves - that they just don't like it and that's a good enough reason not to eat it.

Dealt with it all my life.  My parents loved healthy food.  I didn't.  It was a struggle from my earliest days.  I swore that when I became an adult, I'd eat just exactly what I want.  And I do.  And that's usually not a problem, except when people start telling me what I should be doing instead of what I am doing.

I've never understood why people who admit that they don't like this or that refuse to believe that I don't like this AND that...so to speak.


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## Steve (Mar 25, 2009)

Bill Mattocks said:


> One of my objections to eating healthier food is that I don't like the way it tastes. I mean, I really don't like it. From my point of view, that's a good enough reason right there to eat what I want.


Bill, I have found that our tastes change over time.  I liked certain foods as a smoker that I can't tolerate now.  I would routinely eat a 1/2 lbs burger 3 years ago without blinking, but even thinking about it now makes me nauseous.

Point being, you like what you like now, but as you commit to eating different foods, your tastes will change.  I still enjoy a good, medium rare ribeye, but can no longer eat the entire thing.  I split one with my wife now and eat an extra helping of veggies.  I'm at the point now where I prefer yams to regular potatoes and look forward to a heaping serving of something green. 

Also, if you don't routinely eat a particular type of food, chances are you don't know how to cook it well.  I'll bet you make a mean steak, Bill, but have you ever had one that was ill-prepared?  I've eaten good meat that had been tormented and cremated beyond recognition.  It was sad.  Very, very sad.  I never liked brussel sprouts growing up.  Hated them.  Come to find out, they're pretty damned good if you don't overcook them and eat them before they're cold... particularly with a little salt, pepper and a small amount of butter.

So, I guess, as with all things (like, say, martial arts), you have to commit to it and then give it an honest chance.  

Now, to be clear, I'm not trying to convince YOU to change.  I'm really just offering my own response to the positions you're taking... what I would say to a friend if asked.


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## Bill Mattocks (Mar 25, 2009)

I'm hip.  Hasn't really worked for me, and my wife has tried and tried.  I'm not much of a cook.  Don't like steak, either, never touch it.  Burgers are fine, stews, etc.  I like some few veggies, like corn, peas, beans, carrots, etc.  Not that many, though.  I've tried and tried, and I'm well-nigh 50 now.  I also never developed a taste for scotch, which I was told I would if I *really* gave it a long, long, patient attempt.  Nope.  I like bourbon, though.   Go figure...


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## Steve (Mar 25, 2009)

Bill Mattocks said:


> I'm hip. Hasn't really worked for me, and my wife has tried and tried. I'm not much of a cook. Don't like steak, either, never touch it. Burgers are fine, stews, etc. I like some few veggies, like corn, peas, beans, carrots, etc. Not that many, though. I've tried and tried, and I'm well-nigh 50 now. I also never developed a taste for scotch, which I was told I would if I *really* gave it a long, long, patient attempt. Nope. I like bourbon, though. Go figure...


 Oh man... I do like a good single malt!


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## Bill Mattocks (Mar 25, 2009)

stevebjj said:


> Oh man... I do like a good single malt!



I know I must be missing out, but I really did give single-malt scotch a good try - even solicited advice from friends who are connoisseurs, bought the right stuff, etc, etc.  I just never managed it.

Here's something interesting - I can't eat Indian food (or any food with cilantro in it, but especially Indian).  In fact, not only do I not care for it - it actually smells like rotting garbage to me.  No offense to people who eat Indian food - it seems it might actually be a genetic thing.  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coriander
http://www.ihatecilantro.com/stories.php


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## Stac3y (Mar 25, 2009)

I am an extremely picky eater, which drives my husband bonkers. That man will eat practically anything, except strawberries and mushrooms, and he gets very frustrated with my "limited" palate.

BUT...I eat what I consider to be a healthy diet. Lean meat, veggies, fruit, and nuts. No sugar, except on special occasions; 1-2 glasses of wine a day. Virtually no starchy carbs (they make me blow up like a balloon and cause other problems I do not care to discuss publicly.) I am in pretty good shape and maintain a reasonable weight (with considerable effort.) I just have very strong preferences and aversions to certain foods. I don't eat fish, for example. Even thinking about it makes me want to puke. So I certainly sympathize with Bill's food aversions. 

I wonder, though, Bill; what foods do you classify as healthy/not healthy? There really are a lot of different opinions re: what a healthy diet is, and IMHO, different people have different metabolisms and needs, so there is no one diet that can be said to be healthy for everyone. I think there are not really a whole lot of foods that can be said to be unconditionally healthy or unhealthy.


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## Bill Mattocks (Mar 25, 2009)

Stac3y said:


> I don't eat fish, for example. Even thinking about it makes me want to puke. So I certainly sympathize with Bill's food aversions.



Yeah, I also hate fish.  Too flat.



> I wonder, though, Bill; what foods do you classify as healthy/not healthy? There really are a lot of different opinions re: what a healthy diet is, and IMHO, different people have different metabolisms and needs, so there is no one diet that can be said to be healthy for everyone. I think there are not really a whole lot of foods that can be said to be unconditionally healthy or unhealthy.



Well, some things I just hear about, or people get all frowny face at me.  My wife likes fresh veggies or frozen if she can't get fresh.  I like canned if I can stand them at all.  I know, I know - packed with badness in the form of sugar and preservatives, not to mention the heavy metal toxins from the can itself.  Can't help it - I like canned corn and peas and green beans and such, and that's the only way I'll eat 'em at all.  I like the basic fruits - bananas and oranges and lemons and limes and various berries (except for cranberries, yucko) and I don't care for cherries, can take apples or leave them.  Weirder fruits or veggies like rhubarb and squash and such are way, way, out.  Icky bad.  Kiwi? I don't think so.  Pickles, cukes, tomatoes, blah.

My diet is very limited.  Meat (except fish and lamb) and potatoes, some veggies as mentioned above, breads and pastas. Frozen microwaved burritos.  TV dinners.  Italian food, mexican food (except with cilantro in it, hehe) and Chinese food.  I even like kim chee, which is odd.  I don't really go in for sweets much, but I drink a lot of soda.  Not a heavy beer drinker, but I like my bourbon on the rocks.  Mostly, I think what I eat is unhealthy because all my life, people roll their eyes and tell me how unhealthy it is.  And then we get back to their 'list' of things I 'ought to eat' and how much I'd like it if only I gave it a decent try.  I'm nearly 50.  If I have not learned to like it by now, I'm not going to, and I'm all done trying.

But I look at it this way - I have a physical every so often, and I get blood work done.  I don't seem to be short on whatever it is I'm supposed to have - my blood pressure is OK, pulse rate is good, cholesterol within limits, though tending towards the high side.  I basically make them go  'tut tut' at me, but they never call me pre-diabetic or freak out or anything.  I'm way overweight according to the charts - like 50 pounds more than 'fat but acceptable',  but other than that, nothing really odd. Some diminshed lung capacity due to smoking (scar tissue on my lungs from coughing), but I gave up smoking, nothing more I can do about that.  So other than my extreme girth, I don't really get the hairy eyeball from the doctor.

One thing that doctors don't like about me is that I tend to refuse medication.  I have psorriasis, but I refuse to take anything for it - the side-effects read like a horror show - I'd rather have the scaly skin.  I won't take blood pressure meds or cholesterol meds (they were once borderline high, but I got them down through exercise) and I won't take whatever else the pill-pushers want me on.  Just not going to do it - ever.

I take one low-dose aspirin a day.  That's it.  No vitamins, no supplements, I just eat what I want and work out.  My goal is to lose weight by eating less and exercising more.  And that's pretty much it.


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## Ronin74 (Mar 26, 2009)

As far as meat choices go, I'm too mixed-up. I think like Steve said, our tastes change over time, and mine change often. I can't seem to stomach a lot of pork products, like pork ribs or pork chops, or even those sausage breakfast patties. Yet, if you give me a pizza with pepperoni, bacon and sausage, I'm in happy land. Even odder, I can't seem to eat pizza as much as I used to.

I love a decent burger and a really good philly cheesesteak, but I can't handle too much beef in a week. Maybe twice a week is cool, but too much seems to keep me up at night, and that's if I eat it at lunch.

Chicken? Never been a problem there, but with my limited time, the best I can do is sandwiches and the occassional pasta with grilled chicken in it. If it's a day off, that sort of falls into a "beef" day.

As for fish, I love grilld salmon, tuna salad sandwiches, plus rock cod, mahi mahi, and a few others (not catfish, though). However, I have to agree with Bill that the taste can be flat for me too sometimes, and actually leaves me hungry for more.


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## BrandonLucas (Mar 26, 2009)

I think alot of it has to do with your attitude toward food in general.  I've started thinking of eating as a means to fuel my body with energy instead of eating because I like the taste.

Taste certainly has to be an issue, because I don't know anyone who could continually eat foods that they dislike.  But I think people get wrapped up in living to eat, instead of eating to live.  That attributes to 90% of the weight gain, IMO.  I know that's what my problem was.

I couldn't stand for there to be extra food left on my plate.  I was raised to clean my plate, and that's what I lived by for a long, long time.  It wasn't until recently that I realized that it's easier to clean my plate if I have less on it to begin with.  And even then, if I'm feeling full, what's the harm in leaving some for later?  Not to mention that if you have less on your plate to start with, chances are that unless you're extremely hungry, you won't jump up right away to fix seconds.

Eating slower is another thing that people overlook.  You have the same full feeling if you take an extra 15 minutes to complete your meal as you would if you scarf the whole thing down in 5.  In fact, the full feeling is better...I know if I get in a hurry, my stomache starts to ache, but if I take my time, I soon realize that I didn't need to eat as much as what I did in the first place.

You can still eat the foods you enjoy and stay healthy, even if the foods aren't as healthy as others.  Just simply putting less on your plate and taking your time makes alot of difference.

Of course, this is all a matter of choice as well.  If you are fine with the amount you eat, then of course, that's up to you.  And, of course, everyone has a different definition of what "healthy" is, and where it fits into the equation of health=happiness.


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## Stac3y (Mar 27, 2009)

I think just about anyone can eat a relatively healthy diet within the confines of their tastes--even Bill.  For example, canned veggies may not be as good as fresh, but they're sure better than none. You just have to read the labels and avoid the ones with excessive sodium and sugar. Even most store brands have versions with no sugar or no sodium added.

Sticking with whole grain bread goes a long way, too, and there are a lot of whole wheat products available now that have the look and texture of white bread.

IMO, soda is one of the few things you can definitely say is just plain damn unhealthy. It's that high fructose corn syrup, which is in just about everything. My (completely unresearched and unqualified) opinion is that the addition of that crapola to processed foods is largely responsible for the prevalence of obesity and the increase in Type II Diabetes in the US.

BTW, has anyone else here seen "SuperSize Me"? I haven't set foot in a McDonald's since.


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## Bill Mattocks (Mar 27, 2009)

Stac3y said:


> BTW, has anyone else here seen "SuperSize Me"? I haven't set foot in a McDonald's since.



I have a very good friend who urged me to go see it.  He said, _"You won't set foot in a McDonalds ever again!"_  That was reason enough for me not to see it.

The next time he saw me, he urged me to see it again.  I told him that would be the last time he told me that and still consider himself my friend.

Nothing since.


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## Nomad (Mar 27, 2009)

This is something you have obviously thought through on your own quite a bit and I respect the choice you've made (in favor of the foods you like and against potentially healthier options).

If you know the risks and decide you don't care, that's certainly your perogative and I don't think anyone else should bully you into doing otherwise.

There may come a time when that changes; if you have a checkup and your doctor tells you that you are morbidly obese and quickly becoming diabetic for example (or a host of other theoretical reasons). At that point, it may be harder to act and make changes than it is now, but that is something you might have to deal with.

If you are an overweight person or have other unhealthy habits (smoking, drinking too much, etc), there is only ONE person who can make you change. I'll give you a hint, he looks back at you every time you look in the mirror. Anyone else; your spouse, parents, friends, doctor, etc. can't really do a thing for you except for give their advice and hopefully their support.

On taste; it is possible to permanently change your tastes and your perception of how things taste. An example from my own life is soft drinks. For more years than I care to count, I was addicted to Coke Classic and couldn't stand anything else. The idea of switching to Diet Coke (arguably healthier; certainly doesn't have the massive sugar and calorie count of the regular stuff) was appalling to me; I'd tried it and really couldn't stand it. 

At a certain point in my life, I realize that I'd topped out at 6', 265 pounds, and the soft drinks were a cornerstone of this weight gain (from 210 in about 6 years or so). I made the resolution to switch, and absolutely hated Diet Coke... for about the first 3 weeks. Now, I can't stand the regular stuff. Lots of other changes were required too (more exercise, other dietary changes, etc.) and I'm now at my "right" weight of 180 lbs. (YES, I know that Diet Coke isn't exactly health food either, but everyone needs SOME vices... I don't do coffee and rarely drink alcohol... back off! )

I will also say that the diet-food industry in the past 10-12 years has taken massive strides forward on taste... it all used to taste like recycled cardboard, but I think they've really started making much better stuff lately in response to heightened demand for lower fat/calorie options.

One reason that you may get flak for being bigger and eating unhealthy foods is that many people (not necessarily you!) put up all sorts of protective mental barriers around being big (I'm just big-boned, I could never lose the weight, I've tried diets and they don't work, I don't have the time, healthy food is too expensive, etc ad nauseum). These can act as defense mechanisms that protect you from seeing yourself the way others do, and from deciding to act to change it (always difficult, no matter what the change).


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## Ronin74 (Mar 27, 2009)

On a laughable note, one thing that irks me is trying food that's not too healthy, and is really lacking in taste. I tried Red Robin's Fish & Chips tonight... not my best call... lol.


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## Flea (Mar 28, 2009)

There's also a lot to be said both for taking pleasure in eating and in eating mindfully.  I find a I get a lot more mileage from slowly savoring a Taco Bell burrito than I would from bolting a salad.  When I eat too fast I get a stomachache for days, and if I'm not paying attention to the food as it goes down I don't feel satiated either. Even if the burrito is a greaseball, it still offers beans, meat, cheese, and wheat/corn.


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## Ronin74 (Mar 28, 2009)

Flea said:


> There's also a lot to be said both for taking pleasure in eating and in eating mindfully. I find a I get a lot more mileage from slowly savoring a Taco Bell burrito than I would from bolting a salad. When I eat too fast I get a stomachache for days, and if I'm not paying attention to the food as it goes down I don't feel satiated either. Even if the burrito is a *greaseball*, it still offers beans, meat, cheese, and wheat/corn.


Don't forget the extra grease.


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## Flea (Mar 29, 2009)

I love grease.  Seriously.  I'm not so big on fast food, but if I could afford it I'd eat greasy food at real restaurants all the time.  Last time I ate out I had a giant reuben sandwich that I stretched out over 3 meals.  Corned beef swimming in thousand island dressing and grilled ... nirvana!  I only regret that I forgot to ask for the side of fries.

Of course, I have the metabolism of a hummingbird.  I'd be a beanpole no matter what I ate, and I've tested this thoroughly.  Even so, I enjoy food enough that I'd eat whatever I wanted anyway.  I don't drink or smoke, I haven't had a date in a couple years.  My only other vice is nose-picking.  I have to do _something_ to make life worthwhile.


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## Tez3 (Mar 29, 2009)

When you have fried food in America what's it fried in? Does it depend on the food you're cooking?

Flea I think you owe me a new keyboard! I spilt my drink laughing at your last post!! Nice one! :lol:

I hate green veggies, always have, always will.


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## Flea (Mar 29, 2009)

Tez, when it comes to the contents of my frying oil I don't know and don't want to know.  I use either peanut or olive oil at home, but elsewhere ... it's don't ask and don't tell. 

Now here's a recipe that's uniquely American.  My left arm tingles just looking at the picture.  (Sadly I'm a computer boob who couldn't figure out how to copy and paste the image here, so you'll just have to do the work.) 

Here's the recipe.  http://www.bbqaddicts.com/blog/recipes/bacon-explosion/  Part of it reads thusly: 

_Now that you&#8217;re pork is well seasoned, it&#8217;s time to add more pork.  Take two pounds of Italian sausage and layer it directly on top of your bacon weave.  Be sure to press the sausage to the outer edges of the bacon creating a patty that is the same thickness all the way across. _

I haven't tried it myself, but apparently it's becoming one of those online sensations.  A lot of people tried it last summer at their barbecues.  _God_ I love this country!! :highfive:


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## Ronin74 (Mar 30, 2009)

That's like a life's serving of pork. If anyone should manage to eat that, they ought to consider their pork intake to be fulfilled for life.


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## Stac3y (Mar 31, 2009)

Ronin74 said:


> That's like a life's serving of pork. If anyone should manage to eat that, they ought to consider their pork intake to be fulfilled for life.


 
There's always room for pork. :wink1:


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## Nomad (Mar 31, 2009)

Stac3y said:


> There's always room for pork. :wink1:


 
(paraphrased

Lisa:  I'm becoming a vegetarian.  I don't eat animals. 
Homer: You mean you can't eat any bacon?
Lisa: No Dad.
Homer: You can't eat ham?
Lisa: No Dad.
Homer: You can't eat pork chops?
Lisa: Dad, those all come from the same animal!
Homer: Oh sure, Lisa. A *MAGICAL* animal.


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## Ronin74 (Mar 31, 2009)

Nomad said:


> (paraphrased
> 
> Lisa: I'm becoming a vegetarian. I don't eat animals.
> Homer: You mean you can't eat any bacon?
> ...


LOL. It would be magic if I could stomach it all.

For some reason, I could never take to pork chops, but throw some bacon or ham on a pizza (with some pepperoin and sausage) and I'm good.


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## Ronin74 (Mar 31, 2009)

Stac3y said:


> There's always room for pork. :wink1:


That should be called a "Pork Loaf" or a "Pork Cake".


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## Carol (Mar 31, 2009)

Flea said:


> Tez, when it comes to the contents of my frying oil I don't know and don't want to know.  I use either peanut or olive oil at home, but elsewhere ... it's don't ask and don't tell.
> 
> Now here's a recipe that's uniquely American.  My left arm tingles just looking at the picture.  (Sadly I'm a computer boob who couldn't figure out how to copy and paste the image here, so you'll just have to do the work.)
> 
> ...



Now THAT was worth the read :asian:   I think I gained 10 pounds just by looking at it.  :lol:


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## Marginal (Apr 1, 2009)

Stac3y said:


> IMO, soda is one of the few things you can definitely say is just plain damn unhealthy. It's that high fructose corn syrup, which is in just about everything. My (completely unresearched and unqualified) opinion is that the addition of that crapola to processed foods is largely responsible for the prevalence of obesity and the increase in Type II Diabetes in the US.
> 
> BTW, has anyone else here seen "SuperSize Me"? I haven't set foot in a McDonald's since.


Both are fine in moderation. The problem is that nobody really moderates their intake. Just look at the Luther Burger. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxyIvU5eB-k&feature=related


I'm certainly big into pop/soda. Though I switched to diet (sorry, can't stand plain water or tea which are apparently the only healthy things you can drink anymore) simply because I was consuming 1,000 calories a day just in the form of sugar water.


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