# Why Silat?



## Hawke (Mar 25, 2008)

Greetings and Salutations!

Why did you choose Silat (or why Silat chose you)?

Most of the people I have talked with already had training in a different MA before they studied Silat.  Some schools combine Silat with others (FMA seems common).

What do you like about Silat?

With Respect
:asian:


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## tellner (Mar 25, 2008)

> Why did you choose Silat (or why Silat chose you)?
> 
> Most of the people I have talked with already had training in a different MA before they studied Silat. Some schools combine Silat with others (FMA seems common).
> 
> What do you like about Silat?



I had been a dojo bum for many years and first heard about Silat from Donn Draeger's books. It seemed fascinating. Later, my then-fiancee was in a JKD school that had a few seminars which included some Silat. When a teacher moved to town I had a choice between studying with him or staying with a local Modern Arnis teacher. 

It was a very, very easy choice. Brandt knew what he was talking about and had made it work when large armed men didn't want him to stand up again. That's with his physical infirmities. The movements were natural. The attitude and techniques made sense. What wasn't to like?

Some time later my current teacher moved to the area. It was his skill and the recommendation of my first guru which were the deciding factors. The principles made sense. The way he fought came out of the principles and the curriculum. The quality of movement was excellent. It seemed efficient, pragmatic and deep. 

Later other things came out, but that's what was attractive in the beginning.


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## Bobbe (Apr 5, 2008)

I came to Pencak Silat later in the game, I was already training Wing Chun and Jiu Jitsu in my mid teens, and thought I knew everything. In South Carolina in the mid 80's, that wasn't a difficult thing to achieve.

I met my first Kali instructor next, LaVonne Martin. You may have heard of her, she's one of Dan Inosanto's top people. At the time (about 1987-88, I forget exactly) she was married to my Jiu Jitsu instructor in Sarasota Florida, Steve Roesnch. I used to drive 17 hours from Columbia to Sarasota just to train with him. I wasn't terribly interested in Kali at the time, and Pencak Silat was just too weird for me to comprehend. However, I took a few private classes with LaVonne since I was down there already (I wanted to make good use of my time) and she got me hooked on the sticks.

I've been a lost man ever since.

Through her I met Francis Fong. You can pretty much follow the bouncing ball from here: Fong -> Inosanto -> Suwanda(s) -> Petrilli -> any one who drifted through, around or near the Inosanto Academy.

I can't really say when it happened, but I eventually receded my training in most of the other arts I was in, and focused only on Kali and Pencak Silat. 

Something I always coveted when I was younger was being a black belt. I felt a little annoyed at Pa Herman, because by the time I reached 3rd Degree in Jiu Jitsu...I just didn't care about it anymore. He had made the learning process more important to me than the piece of paper. I'm grateful to him as well...But I do look back on those days sometimes and say "What the hell was I thinking?!?" 

You can also blame him for this non-conformist attitude I have when it comes to conventional martial arts attitudes and culture. He REALLY opened my eyes, and it wasn't until after his death that I truly started to appreciate what he gave out.


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## infinite beginner (May 26, 2008)

Is it not impossible to proficiently practice many and yet retain claim to mastery of one


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## doc D (May 28, 2008)

I had trained for years in a lot of the more standard fare ....wrestling, judo , American kenpo ,Shou Shu, Chinese Kempo, tae kwon do , hapkido, shotokan karate, ,Kyokushinkai, Jun Fan gung fu , etc, etc. I was training in Larry Hartsell's JKD Grappling association in the mid /late 80's as I recall .While in USAF Spec Ops , I spent some time in some interesting places overseas. At one of those locations, I also spent some time hanging out with a particular US Army Green Beret/ US Special Forces member who had also been a Tunnel Rat in Viet Nam. He was a Chinese style fighter who was pretty rough and tumble and had great footwork and body movement. He liked the Thai Boxers ,when he was in Thailand, because of the full contact work they did and he liked the Kali /escrima folks because of their weapon base, williness to train with live blade during their development  and their attention to footwork. But he seemed most excited about the  Pencak Silat people he had some contact with. He told me of a few times he ran across silat stylist in South East Asia . He said the first time he saw one in action , it really unnerved him. At that time ,he had done a lot of serious training but he did not feel it had prepared him for what he had seen take place in an altercation he witnessed. He did eventually make some friends within the silat community  and learned a bit about their methods. He said he trained pretty hard to learn to deal with some of what they did. He told me  that this focused training was probably what saved his hide one day when one of his team members was about to get in a scrap with a local who, he figured out,was a pesilat. He encouraged me to seek out any Pencak Silat teacher I might ever run across and try my hardest to get some training . Well, that pretty much put the bug in my ear. When I was in Texas, I heard  Pendekar Herman Suwanda was conducting seminars within the region. I went to see him and had an absolutely wonderful training experience. His art seemed to have everything I wanted and seemed to exhibit the motions and skills my teacher/ friend  had mentioned. Later, Bill Stutesman introduced me to Maha Guru Richard Crabbe De-Bordes and the experience was similarly exciting . The more I trained with my silat teachers, the more I saw the concepts and skills being developed that I had been working on when studying JKD, Jun Fan Gung Fu , Wu Wei, grappling, Muay Thai and Kali.There seemed to be a bit of redundancy in many respects.  I decided to place my focus on the study of Pencak Silat and have been with the art ever since, with no regrets. One day my old friend came to to the DFW area and searched me out....he dropped by one day and saw me working with Dave Goodenow , one of my training buddies at the time. I just grinned and said he had nothing more to treach me, it was obvious I was getting what I needed from my silat teachers.

    Of course , why I am with Silat is because it fits my needs and is the art most suitable for my particular way of moving ,as well as my  psychological "worldview". I am certain many other folks have found similar satisfaction within their own non-silat arts. You just have to find one that you can make work for you in an effective manner and one that seems to meet all of your training needs. For me , it was Pencak Silat.
     With Respect,
Doc D


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## doc D (May 28, 2008)

Apologies.....In the previous post I misstyped "I " instead of "He" just grinned...
I can't seem to figure out how to edit the post and the mistake changes the flavor of the story. He really was pleased that I had found a silat teacher. His Kung Fu method was very heavy on what we would call Langkah in silat. He liked the fact I had finally learned to move a lot better !

Doc D


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## pesilat (May 29, 2008)

I was born with crossed eyes and my vision development was somewhat screwy. Consequently I have poor depth perception. I started training TKD as a kid but at the kicking range I'm at a huge disadvantage because of my depth perception problems.

I moved from TKD to Okinawan Goju-Ryu and was more comfortable but still had issues caused by the depth perception.

When I was introduced to Silat - specifically from the de Thouars Serak lineage - it felt like I was coming home. That extreme close range where I'm able to rely more on tactile senses than on visual senses is great for me and, in fact, is what I had kind of fumbled my way toward. When I was introduced to Silat I thought, "Wow! People actually fight like this! This is what I've been groping in the dark trying to find for years!"

Mike


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## Brian R. VanCise (May 29, 2008)

I love Silat and the movement fits perfectly with my training.  Personally I love that close in manipulation and leg destructions.


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## infinite beginner (May 29, 2008)

you can take the art out of the jungle but you can't take the jungle out of the art.the physics of the tiger, dexterity of the monkey ,the mesmorizing lightning strike's of the cobra.


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## ben (May 31, 2008)

When I started I had never heard of silat or kuntao. I'd done about 8-12 months of karate and gotten bored. Then one day my dad (who was still doing karate at the time) called and told me I had to come and check out this class he had been to. He had gone because they advertised Tai Chi and he ended up sitting in on a silat class.

I was hooked right away. Not because of any particular movement or tech but because of the hands on application and the in depth explanation. 

What keeps me coming back is the fluid, supple and explosive movement. The more I practice the better I feel. I am constantly learning something new and improving what I know. There'll be no more marching up and down the floor shouting  kia for me.


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## infinite beginner (Jun 4, 2008)

martial physics. no time for strengh no time for speed no time for time.


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## jus_dann (Jun 4, 2008)

Bobbe said:


> I came to Pencak Silat later in the game, I was already training Wing Chun and Jiu Jitsu in my mid teens, and thought I knew everything. In South Carolina in the mid 80's, that wasn't a difficult thing to achieve.
> 
> I met my first Kali instructor next, LaVonne Martin. You may have heard of her, she's one of Dan Inosanto's top people. At the time (about 1987-88, I forget exactly) she was married to my Jiu Jitsu instructor in Sarasota Florida, Steve Roesnch. I used to drive 17 hours from Columbia to Sarasota just to train with him. I wasn't terribly interested in Kali at the time, and Pencak Silat was just too weird for me to comprehend. However, I took a few private classes with LaVonne since I was down there already (I wanted to make good use of my time) and she got me hooked on the sticks.
> 
> ...


 

I also found myself playing around in the "inosanto circle"
in reading this, i remember LaVonne busting my head open with some sarong work........can you say SHEWWWW! LOL


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## jus_dann (Jun 4, 2008)

and with the 1st question,
why silat?
well after years of chinese training with a hit of FMA & Kuntao,
I really enjoyed the "all you can eat" with FMA and some silats just help me tie together the FMA with the CMA. just kinda felt natural


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## infinite beginner (Jun 6, 2008)

silat is nothing if not an intense study of physical precision.Skill is not knowing how much damage you can inflict ,but how much damage you can evade and counter.For every one technique there must be a thousand counter's


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## Copis (Jun 10, 2008)

11 years ago I moved to Denver.....I felt it would be foolish not to investigate the deThouars lineage. Bapak Willem deThouars lives a few minutes from my house.....the rest is my personal history. As a young Instructor under Willem I can honestly say that Silat has changed my life....

Bill Maniotes


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## PG Michael B (Jun 14, 2008)

Why Silat? Quid pro quo...why not silat?

Silat is principal based with simplicity and intent as the guiding edge. It is also pertinent to know that Silat, especially those systems that come from Malaysia and Indonesia work off of the premise of Mustaqeen (the straight path)...many of the systems are steeped in Islam and trained in accordance with this in mind. The Silat I have trained was not the life long syllabus that most in the west are accustomed to, rather it is a short syllabus and can actually take a year or less to learn (learn not master). In south east Asia the people who study need it now, not tomorrow, so the lessons are tailored to fit into their every day life. This is what appeals to me. A straight forward methodology that bases it's content on simplicity with intent as opposed to rhetoric, dogma and theory only. I train and explore the Silat world for the love of the arts, the culture and the practicality of methodology, especially Baringingsakti Pencak Silat Harimau. This system fits well for me. Do not believe the hype when they say big men can not  do Harimau...LOL...I know several, myself included that can prove that query dead wrong. Peace, salaam, shalom

PG Michael Blackgrave

www.bahadzubuwest.org


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## infinite beginner (Jun 24, 2008)

take out the sport, the fair fighting, the rules of exchange and competition along with heavy value of muscle and speed
and most arts end, where silat just begin's


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## infinite beginner (Jul 20, 2008)

//\\ //\\
\\// \\//  even a strong breeze can sweep away equilibrium, if its from the right angle.


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## infinite beginner (Aug 5, 2008)

jurus are just rote mindless stirking tools ,once you finally understand them


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## infinite beginner (Aug 7, 2008)

Everyone of the same style get's the same generic jurus, yet no two fight the same. its how you can express the motion to the best of Your capabilties.


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## infinite beginner (Aug 8, 2008)

you need forms before you can pour the foundation


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## infinite beginner (Aug 9, 2008)

jurus  instill a complete controlled awareness of all one's own motion.thru limiting your motions to forms you are also sectoring all motions out side the form you are allways drawing from the unlimited boundaries you create


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## infinite beginner (Aug 11, 2008)

any time from any range at any pressure when the leg connects there's a sapu or biset opportunity.its geometric leg destruction


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## infinite beginner (Aug 12, 2008)

The jurus only work, if you forget they are there .Every intent is a dangerous leap of faith.


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## infinite beginner (Aug 14, 2008)

One must remain neutral to read the opponent


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## Franc0 (Aug 15, 2008)

Plus opportunities such as Sapu, beset & puter kepala present themselves. If you "chase" it, it doesn't work.

Franco


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## infinite beginner (Aug 15, 2008)

their first mistake is your first oppotunity.


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## infinite beginner (Aug 16, 2008)

beggar is the winner, chooser is the loser.


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## infinite beginner (Aug 16, 2008)

jurus are the heart derivative motions, from their vast applications,


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## Doc_Jude (Aug 17, 2008)

doc D said:


> He told me of a few times he ran across silat stylist in South East Asia . He said the first time he saw one in action , it really unnerved him. At that time ,he had done a lot of serious training but he did not feel it had prepared him for what he had seen take place in an altercation he witnessed.



Wow. That must be a very common experience for folks coming into Silat. It sure mirrors mine.
(not the SE Asia bit, but the general impression...)


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## infinite beginner (Aug 17, 2008)

every strike is seen as a set up, every deflection to damage, stagger and shock.


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## infinite beginner (Aug 19, 2008)

In the training the attacker can can do anything full force with intent to do maximum damage .The one being attacked never intentionally inflicts
injury in their response take down.


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## infinite beginner (Aug 19, 2008)

first, you train your body with jurus, then thru time and guidance you learn to unlock the meanings in application.


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## infinite beginner (Aug 21, 2008)

The reason for this precise repetition is to rise above it. what you first embrace you need to eventually despise


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## infinite beginner (Aug 22, 2008)

every art is different, every style is different, every teacher is different every student is different.every understanding is different.every attack is one of a kind.


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## infinite beginner (Aug 23, 2008)

train the impossible,to prepare for the unpredictable


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## infinite beginner (Aug 25, 2008)

even the most realistic empty hand against blade training will only grant one a slight edge, depending on the intent and skill of the knife fighter. 
difference between real and realistic is same as between real and non real


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## infinite beginner (Aug 25, 2008)

there are no knife counters for some one who doesnt show thier knife.


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## Franc0 (Aug 27, 2008)

OK IB, I can understand your wanting to convey your insights, but do they have to be in fortune cookie installments?

Franco


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## infinite beginner (Aug 27, 2008)

Yes. Any one who think's they are prepared to dis arm a knife fighter
has false confidence.


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## infinite beginner (Aug 29, 2008)

To deal with a knife you must be untouchable.


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## infinite beginner (Aug 29, 2008)

because the knife is invisable.


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## naneek (Aug 30, 2008)

why the


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## naneek (Aug 30, 2008)

why the need for multiple short posts, wouldnt it be more efficient to post one longer one(although the posts are good ones)?


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## infinite beginner (Sep 1, 2008)

In the big motion you find the small in the small you find the in between
 these crucial motions.become the crux of training.a twist and a twitch replace a wave and a swing.Practice become's very subtle in a more perpetual sense.


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## Bobbe (Sep 1, 2008)

> In the big motion you find the small in the small you find the in between these crucial motions.become the crux of training.a twist and a twitch replace a wave and a swing.Practice become's very subtle in a more perpetual sense.


*
One must first look up to see down.

The path to enlightenment starts at the beginning.

"Bleem" is not a word.

Asian chicks in tight shorts are hot.*

See, I can do that too, make up go-nowhere nonsensical sing-song fortune cookie quotes in an attempt to sound like I know what I'm talking about while thumbing my nose at those I deign beneath me.

But I draw the line at annoying an entire forum with multiple posts, as if what I had to say was so important I couldn't possibly put it all into one space.


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## infinite beginner (Sep 1, 2008)

OK.  The object is to do more with less.less means refinement.The elbow only has to move three inches to break bones.But you dont see three inch elbow's in jurus.


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## infinite beginner (Sep 1, 2008)

I am the entire forum.And so are you when your title appear's as far as Im concerned Im writing for myself and I do know what Im talking about.
every word I write is undisputable.irrefutable, unquestionable.how's that.
no one has a lock on truth. attack the message not the messenger.


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## infinite beginner (Sep 3, 2008)

mental distraction,sense deception,structural destruction.


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## infinite beginner (Sep 4, 2008)

silat is street ,there's no time to care who is the better fighter.The psychology is as important as the technique's. you  capture their attention with distraction, then you  confuse their sense's with a series of strike's, since every strike can be countered  every strike is a set up.then
while they are thinking about that you attack the leg's.


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## infinite beginner (Sep 8, 2008)

jurus are pivot point's,there is only one juru when you shuffle them.


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## Jimi (Sep 9, 2008)

So the 8 Juru's I learned over a decade ago are all just 1. *****, What about the Sambuts, And Lankas? Oh No! I was mislead. Teach me oh grand pooh bear. LOL. I love Mande Muda, Bukti Negara & even Maphilindo Silat. But I just read those names some where.


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## infinite beginner (Sep 9, 2008)

exactly, if you can't put it together you have nothing .If you get attacked 
how many jurus or sombuts are you going to use what motion's will you need .you wont know until the time. you have to flow from the 3rd motion from juru one to the 6 th of 5 to the 1st of 8 etc..  with out delay of thought, if your still counting 12345 instead of 42331 etc..then youve learned very little.


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## Jimi (Sep 9, 2008)

Are you telling me I am counting wrong? Or you think I just don't understand Silat as well as you? I could say the same about JF/JKD. You must be able to flow from kwan sao to pak sao da to double jut sao to bong sao at will. How about TSD? You must flow from Pinon Two 3rd sequence to Kibon Four 6th sequence. Or Kajukenbo? You must flow from Ram Enters to Tiger Shreds Flesh without thought. Many arts have their base priciples & techniques set in a basic format like an alphabet before a person can free from it. This is not exclusive to Silat. I aboslutly respect many forms of Silat, Harimau being my favorite (Name my first cat HARIMAU and he lived up to the name). I am just not sure what infinite beginner is saying. Sorry man but it does sound like you are speaking in metafors & fortune cookie speak to sound informed. If I am wrong about you, my bad,  but I am not the only poster to think this. Silat has incredible finishes that are even illegal in Shooto (Shoot wrestling) because of its efficient brutality. "I Present Myself To The Creator- ETC..."


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## infinite beginner (Sep 9, 2008)

I am aware universal threads overlap,but I am only talking about silat, as I
understand it .Just searching for answer's like everyone else.


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## Jimi (Sep 9, 2008)

Here is my answer to this threads question (Why Silat?) WHY NOT? LOL


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## infinite beginner (Sep 11, 2008)

Juru's as I have learned are like interchangable socket's.if a set contains
7 jurus .you could fill a hundred phone book's with the combonation's
.If you only train in sequence you risk fighting in sequence.like comparing using an abacus to a calculator.silat take's a long time that's why those old master's are so good.they train their minds to work like fighting computers seeing 5 move's ahead.


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## Jack Meower (Sep 11, 2008)

Bobbe said:  "Asian chicks in tight shorts are hot."

I'll second that one.  And that I can understand.


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## infinite beginner (Sep 19, 2008)

Silat is silat ? there is no silat with out music and dance,flowing rhythm and broken timing forms the core.mad warrior dance that is embodied
in the handed down form's.Beyond this, system's and methods seem quite different


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## Jimi (Sep 23, 2008)

Long ago in the distant future, from the shores of knowledge to the seas of mass confusion. I now see what you are saying infinite beginner.


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## infinite beginner (Sep 24, 2008)

all the motions of silat are strange and unorthadox. the effects are just as strange and un expected its hard to see all that goes into just one motion.an elbow is a million things.and an elbow


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## infinite beginner (Oct 2, 2008)

the ideal effect is to drop the attacker where they stand , in the shortest time, using the least motion.extra motion is extra time and extra power and one must be wisely sacrificed for the other.


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## infinite beginner (Oct 8, 2008)

like lightning the opponent is never in the same place twice, making favoritism of technique difficult beyond demonstration.


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## Jimi (Oct 10, 2008)

The Sapu's all have a life of their own. A moving foundation settles no roots. A moving root is never uprooted except by itself. Only when it wants to uproot another root. Wait a minute!?, now I am confused again! Ok, The elbow is a shield that strikes like a sword so never sharpen your sword when you can polish your shield. Oh, Wait. It is a sin not to remove your targets from your enemies reach, It is also a sin never to reach your opponents targets if he gifts them to you. Always Lightning before Thunder. Always shield before sword. Always rice before lumpia I hope I am getting to understand infinite beginner. PEACE


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## infinite beginner (Oct 11, 2008)

if in the middle of any technique there is a knee or an elbow that is the real end of the technique.but only if you are rooted in movement.


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## Jimi (Oct 12, 2008)

But sadly a trees roots can not step or slide or pivot, although mine can. Step, pivot & switch and my enemies fall like toppling trees. Get it? LANKA! LOL. Silat is all.


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## infinite beginner (Oct 18, 2008)

Silat is a deadly art,in training one must be very careful or very skilled


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## Jimi (Oct 18, 2008)

Is that to say that Kali is not? Or that Krabi Krabong is not? Silat is only as deadly as those who train it. To contradict my previous statement, SILAT is not all. A Filipino stick choke can kill (If applied long enough) just as effectively as a Silat Puter Kapala wrenching to a neck break. I too love Silat infinite beginner, but you have not given me any insight beyond one who has read about Silat. I have shaken hands with Herman Suwanda (Rest In Peace) & have been tied in knots by Dan Inosanto (Also Paula Inosanto for that matter). Bukti Negara, Mande Muda & MaPhilIndo Silat have been engraved upon my heart. Give us some other insight than that sounding like fortune cookie speak. I expect an answer that will sound as if spoken by the Abbott of Shaoilin itself. I am not taking Silat lightly at all, and I love it's beautiful skills, but to speak like you have posted does not give me any real reason to think you have realy trained it. I could say, Krabi Krabong is a dealdy art, in training one must be very careful or very skilled. LOL. Now I expect an answer like "I understand about universal overlap"  I am hoping to draw a response that will show me that you have something real about Silat to discuss. A HOUNDRED QUESTIONS WILL ONLY ELICIT A THOUSAND MORE. LOL. Engraved upon my heart until the end. PEACE JIMI


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## infinite beginner (Oct 18, 2008)

Are you related to lewis carrol ?If not you should consider children's fiction


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## infinite beginner (Oct 18, 2008)

talk is cheap written word's cheaper the last thing I want to do is prove anything.my words are up for all to see and make of them what they will


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## infinite beginner (Oct 18, 2008)

Silat is many things to many people perhaps the most diversified of any art cause style's differed from tribe to tribe island to island.Its an ancient warriors art preserved and passed down .its not something you would want your worst enemy out there to have deep insights into,or even for those you dont personally know and trust.


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## Jimi (Oct 19, 2008)

What do you think of Silat entries? Have you anything to discuss on that, or am I an enemy you don't trust with your insights of centuries old arts preserved and passed down? (With my years in Silat & other Inosanto curriculum arts, I see how you must think I am gonna pick your brain here on this forum for the secrets of Silat) I was trying to see if you wanted to discuss Silat or preach. With the way you just posted, you gave me the insight I was looking for. I have no issue with wether or not you have trained much in Silat, just wanted to see your purpose in posting. Now you are not preaching just Silat, but preaching to the choir. Not asking to be THANKED on this forum, just wanted clear discussion, not vague statements sounding like insight. Start discussing Silat and you will find I am not so uptight.  Waiting for something substantial to discuss.


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## infinite beginner (Oct 19, 2008)

Look ,aren't we are all face less paper tigers ,in computerland. that said. 99.9 % of the art is entry you might have a big house but with out the keys your locked out.


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## infinite beginner (Oct 25, 2008)

Every technique is flawed by unexpected response.the ultimate ideal  is to become unlimited in your motion the jurus provide a platform and a passageway of constantly discovering and eliminating limitations.


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## infinite beginner (Oct 29, 2008)

silat does not block. instead there is deflection so that the other absorb's the shock. it takes very little energy to deflect, you steal and direct the force upon contact then continue a striking line.


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## zeeberex (Oct 29, 2008)

infinite beginner said:


> silat does not block. instead there is deflection so that the other absorb's the shock. it takes very little energy to deflect, you steal and direct the force upon contact then continue a striking line.



someone made a post about deflecting the punch, my reponse was along this line of thought


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## Franc0 (Nov 2, 2008)

infinite beginner said:


> Look , 1. *aren't we are all face less paper tigers ,in computerland.* that said. 2. *99.9 % of the art is entry* you might have a big house but with out the keys your locked out.


 
1. Speak for yourself. Some spend more time training than in computerland posting fortune cookie quotes. 
2. Wrong again. All phases should be equal. If your follow through is weak, your entry is useless.

:asian:
Franco


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## infinite beginner (Nov 2, 2008)

entry is everything the rest is hallucination.I guess its not important if you dont mind getting punched in the face while your closing range .its all a matter of perspective to each his own.


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## Franc0 (Nov 3, 2008)

infinite beginner said:


> entry is everything the rest is hallucination.


 
To put it as eloquently as possible, I am flabbergasted at the complete and total anally inserted cranium directed logic of that statement :barf:, thus making complete sense of the experience & stature of your username.
Have a nice day,

Franco


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## infinite beginner (Nov 3, 2008)

then you agree with the second statement


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## infinite beginner (Nov 3, 2008)

no two techniques are the same.for example the puter kapala etc doesnt really exist each time it must be created anew and given random circumstances it wont be created the exact way twice.when you enter what is it you are entering into ? .everything


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## infinite beginner (Nov 8, 2008)

It's not enough to break the balance,you need to take the balance 
Balance is the center.you steer them like a bicycle.


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## infinite beginner (Nov 18, 2008)

In silat there is no left and right there is the four directions


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## ben (Nov 19, 2008)

infinite beginner said:


> In silat there is no left and right there is the four directions



Only 4?


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## infinite beginner (Nov 19, 2008)

Im speaking of structure the concept is always 360 degrees If your structure can cover and occupy more than four directions at one time then you dont need silat.or anything.sure its possible to hit any line from any position but to strike with full power we are limited by structure.


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## infinite beginner (Nov 23, 2008)

Physics, a science that deals with matter and motion. Merriam-Webster


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## ben (Nov 26, 2008)

infinite beginner said:


> ...the concept is always 360 degrees...


Only 360?



infinite beginner said:


> to strike with full power we are limited by structure.


only when you're using structure to generate power.


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## infinite beginner (Nov 26, 2008)

It would seem that unless you are a chicken or a spider you never know 
what is coming behind you.I say we are responsible for 360 but are lucky to take in more than 180.and when we need to turn we are trading one 180 blind spot for another.360 is imperceptible it is a term of awareness
for how well the structure is loaded to cover that perpetual blind spot.


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## infinite beginner (Nov 27, 2008)

Structure. something made up of interdependent parts in a definite pattern of organization.M.W.Structure is what lets you strike like lightning!


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## ben (Dec 6, 2008)

infinite beginner said:


> It would seem that unless you are a chicken or a spider you never know
> what is coming behind you.



you _never _know what's behind you?

why?


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## infinite beginner (Dec 6, 2008)

You never know whats behind you,unless you always know what's behind you.


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## Jimi (Dec 7, 2008)

What Clarity Though I dislike this guys ecsentric speak, the points are valid, but not exclusive to Silat. Keep engaging him Ben, he might spit out something of use. PEACE


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## infinite beginner (Dec 7, 2008)

thru all the eccentricity Im glad its simple enough you can understand it.and that,s exactly what I write clear valid useless points.


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## Jimi (Dec 9, 2008)

Have a safe Holiday Season. PEACE


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## kuntawguro (Dec 9, 2008)

infinite beginner said:


> thru all the eccentricity Im glad its simple enough you can understand it.and that,s exactly what I write clear valid useless points.


 
AHA! 
 Now please stop posting 1 liners 4 in a row- if you have something of "Value" to share please do, just don't play Mr. Miyagi with us- we don't need that- it is annoying to say the least.


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## infinite beginner (Dec 9, 2008)

your passive annoyance doesnt impress me there's no value in saying nothing We are talking silat Now, You say something of value to the art.


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## ben (Dec 10, 2008)

infinite beginner said:


> You never know whats behind you,unless you always know what's behind you.



Now that's just silly.
_You_ may never know whats behind _you_ unless _you_ always do.

But If I pay attention then I know whats behind me. If I don't then I don't.

It's easer if I remember my glasses. 
http://www.amazon.com/Rearview-Spy-Glasses-Mirror-Vision/dp/B000NPGMHM


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## Jdokan (Dec 10, 2008)

ben said:


> Now that's just silly.
> *You may never know whats behind you unless you always do.*
> 
> But If I pay attention then I know whats behind me. If I don't then I don't.
> ...


 typically just an ***... but...why I came to this post...
I started with Silat in Feb of this year, I wanted to better develop my skill sets with both blade & stick....


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## infinite beginner (Dec 10, 2008)

if you have rear view mirrors on your glasses then I believe you can always see behind you .silat is a multiple opponent art why do you think they are always looking around.why are the juru motions so wide not for one person.no one has their own back.remember that.know that it is your worst weakness.


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## infinite beginner (Dec 10, 2008)

okay, say your surounded, they all attack at once, thats silat.you strike in 4 directions because by physical design you only have 4 sides to defend and protect .you intercept on those lines you worry about those lines you maintain defense thru cutting and carving your own lines not theirs.


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## ben (Dec 10, 2008)

If you don't have your own back then who does? Not one of the attackers surrounding you I hope.

Only 4 directions again? 

Which four are you referring to?

I don't see how 4 directions can fully encompass the complexity of movement within a 3 dimensional space.

Maybe you could explain in more detail?


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## infinite beginner (Dec 10, 2008)

front center point, back center point side shoulder points.for striking when you turn to defend you back your back is still behind you.what is the one behind you going to do you dont want know you hit them first.


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## infinite beginner (Dec 11, 2008)

we are also limited by our strenghs ,for example you could try bench pressing with your arms crossed, but physics says, use a very light weight because you are structuraly weak.we dont want to be limited we just are and the sooner the limits are understood the more unlimited we become.


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## ben (Dec 11, 2008)

so that's left, right, forward, and back. What about up and down. Or a sort of leftward 45 with a downward arc and a counterclockwise upward corkscrew at the end.


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## infinite beginner (Dec 11, 2008)

no ,its the center everything is center related you could take any point draw diagonal lines and circles to the moon but the source is the center.


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## infinite beginner (Dec 11, 2008)

incidentally I am in concurrance with your example's.


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## infinite beginner (Dec 12, 2008)

45 degrees is that in slanted referrence to your shoulder or to your center.though its one flow, its actually two distict motions that could just as easy break to go clock wise striking up as the body is being buckled.also in between a sweep or a knee should be added


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## infinite beginner (Dec 21, 2008)

In silat, the hand and foot coordinate in two extreemly distinguished time dimensions.


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## infinite beginner (Jan 7, 2009)

jurus are a language of coded motion. fluency requires skill.


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## infinite beginner (Jan 8, 2009)

hypothetically,you can know the alphabit backwards and forwards up and down sideways and diagonal. in the ruins of repetition you might even acidentally spell a word.but all you have is letters if all you have is motions.


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## infinite beginner (Jan 10, 2009)

Everything you do either buys you a moment or costs you a moment.the principles transcend styles. hard wired awareness of the moment has no
substitute.response should be direct to their reaction.


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## infinite beginner (Jan 22, 2009)

always strike in the moment, the best technique's always come from striking, as always I could be wrong


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## infinite beginner (Jan 29, 2009)

I like it better over here ,If you contort your structure just right you can produce powerfull kicks while doing hand techniques, while in motion


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## infinite beginner (Feb 1, 2009)

silat uses circular velocity in energy gathering motions making its own momentum


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## redantstyle (Feb 1, 2009)

> 45 degrees is that in slanted referrence to your shoulder or to your center.though its one flow, its actually two distict motions that could just as easy break to go clock wise striking up as the body is being buckled.also in between a sweep or a knee should be added


 
45 degrees refers to alot of things, but in the context you are using, it refers to angular stability. force should be used at a '45 degree angle' relative to the ground through the opponent's center. the correct angle will have a tendancy to 'pin' or 'float' the opponent. in other words, if you 'flatten out' to much on your angle you will either push him away, or pull him forward, allowing him to step to regain balance. a bit part of it making sure your force is vectored through his dantien, though personally i prefer to target the mingmen as a focal point. in this way you are attacking his core and compressing it at an angle that makes it a bit more difficult for him to find the escaping step, i.e. rebalance. 

regards.


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## infinite beginner (Feb 1, 2009)

Extreemly valid points well taken .I see 45 as kind of a generic term the question really is, using the right pressure, at the right degree.alot of specifics are involved .but ultimately all foreward force must have an opposite effect to bring them to you as you close in and direct them on your chosen angle.


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## redantstyle (Feb 1, 2009)

i find this is usually provided by autonomic response to the initial touch or impact.  some part will pitch forward and can be grasped to provide the opposite leverage.  if the leg comes forward, it's trapped one way or another.  as you said, many details and it's very situational.  

the '45 degree' compression is the linear component and primarily serves to misalign the vertical column of the body. 

the oppositional leverage is used to 'break the waist' or induce whatever degree of twist is necessary to completely break the structure/balance.   with that done, it is easy to guide the body down. 



regards.


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## infinite beginner (Feb 2, 2009)

that could explain why is works so well.cause effects physics , steep geometry, internal physiology


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## redantstyle (Feb 2, 2009)

timing is crucial.  you have to be fast to interrupt his movements, so they are not completed.  if you allow someone to take their chosen step and establish footing, you will have to contend with their strength.

however, if you can catch them mid-stride, they will be very weak because of they are off-balance when moving.  this is a major tactic and just part of the rationale for the footwork focus in training.   mastering your footwork, and coming to understand what it takes, and  what can be done from any position,  is crucial to being able to cut another's steps.  

regards.


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## redantstyle (Feb 2, 2009)

> I like it better over here ,If you contort your structure just right you can produce powerfull kicks while doing hand techniques, while in motion


 
the hands are used not only to guard the body, but also to provide a counterbalance to the kicking action.  if you dont use your hands (read arms and torso) to compliment the kick,  it will be much weaker.  bringing the arms into play on a kicking technique makes it a 'whole body' motion.  simply because all of your muscles are moving into the strike. 

in particular, i use an arm scissor to do this, and the scissors may also be used to execute various hand techniques, if in the appropriate range.  a fine technique is to use the breaking angles to cause him to pitch into your rising kick.   this can make for a very heavy impact due to the combined momentums.

regards.


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## infinite beginner (Feb 2, 2009)

ballance and counter ballance, as if the force of compensation is compounded by the torque generated from the core. these are like pre reflex actions ,when the foot go's up, the arm wants to go out any way. 
so why not beat the response, use that energy for an intended strike on another line.the weights and measure vary depending on which kick you do .for entering i say kick but mostly i want to say knee, most kicks start with a knee, like alot srikes start from an elbow. before I was refering to   
a very tight diagonal kick that can act as an advancing weapon and doesnt interfere with upward stability. target can be head to toe striking surface the whole leg


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## infinite beginner (Feb 3, 2009)

every big word,is  just alot of small words. an advanced technique is only advanced ability, skill and timing.with this every technique is always advanced.its skill before style not style before skill. your skill is your style


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## infinite beginner (Feb 3, 2009)

silat is an art of harmony, its practioners are relaxed, focused on their breathing and the flow of thier energy, always yielding ,always inviting,always touching with out attatchment, always conected with out commitment.moving with freedom of choice, led only by awareness of
an endless moment.


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## infinite beginner (Feb 3, 2009)

one thing for sure ,you can't be tense or up tight and do silat. its physiologicaly imposable.calmness of mind body and spirit,a one ness with  internal conflicts and imperfections.realizing there is no perfection just hard earned self improvements.and it does take a clairity of mind ,to begin to process all the possibilities that the jurus can present.and it takes almost a physicians knowledge to fully understand their effects.could describe it myself as a joyfull journey into a very deep and philosophical martial art.


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## infinite beginner (Feb 4, 2009)

silat is kind of like ,THAI BOXING wraped in a dance then twisted into a  pretzle.fierce and gracious,like tigers in lotus


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## Jimi (Feb 6, 2009)

Soooo Beautiful, Sleepy now. Your statement about touching with out attachment. How do you explain the Mande Muda Crying on the Shoulder position (Before an arm bar & set of Sapus) from a crashing entry? A lot of what you post is not descriptive enough for someone like me with only say 15 years or so in Silat. I was always taught to press in & attach. Wether or not you answer with a poem (Fortune Cookie Speak) or not, if it adresses the question, I would be pleased to discuss. Not an attack man, just wanna discuss on a lower level of written communication. Ya know down here where I am. LOL. PEACE


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## infinite beginner (Feb 6, 2009)

hah, grappling is attatchment,silat is more of an over shaddowing.if your crying on someones shoiulder Jimi its probably cause they got you in a headlock.when you grab them theyve got you too.why they say that, is to your use your head like an ahchor .its the downward weight pressure from your head on their shoulder I guess if you were to bite them at that point there would be valid attatchment.again its semantics attached implies being at a fixed position in time.their is no time for the term in silat.if it happens its a mistake.we dont grapple.


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## infinite beginner (Feb 6, 2009)

I write in efin unfinished thought.what you want to focus on is the pressure and angle. catch and release, attatch and repell not attatchment your presence should be almost ghostly in perpetual transition.


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## infinite beginner (Feb 6, 2009)

, repell them at the ground or another attacker .didnt mean repel yourself backwards.that should help.


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## redantstyle (Feb 6, 2009)

hmmm...

Jimi has an excellent point.

the technique of crash advancing off balance is used to physically displace the opponent a bit.  you 'steal' his balance by 'bouncing' off him slightly and gets knocked out of position. end result is you are now balanced and driving, and he is moving back or down and is off both balance and structure.


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## infinite beginner (Feb 7, 2009)

Ah, but do we really want to move them back?,seems too easy for them to knee or kick etc..isnt better to make em go to one side or the other. throw their head into an elbow.why just move them when you can bring them into something? cross up their footing in the process.maybe Im missing your point.


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## infinite beginner (Feb 7, 2009)

the funny thing is how many options at every juncture just two arms two legs two shoulders a million things you can do.in the space of a few feet.
yeah you bump em they move back a bit as you close as long as you can close faster than they are moving back its still your time not theirs.


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## Jimi (Feb 7, 2009)

I agree that to always press them back is not always the best per condition or situation. But to say pushing them back can allow them to knee or kick, is not something I can agree with. In Bama Lethwei & Muay Thai, pressing in a clinch makes it difficult for them to do either a kick or knee. A lot of Silat finishes that I have seen do grapple, right to the ground, though most are to finish a guy then move on, not dry humping like in UFC. I can appreciate your points Infinite Beginner, I hope you can see mine too. PEACE


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## infinite beginner (Feb 7, 2009)

A good portion of silat is ground fighting nothing wrong with following them to the ground.and a clinch situation the compression can kill the kicks 
no problem with that.but thats more of a mutual nuetralization.not a real good silat scenario to be in ,but good to know how to counter it.also if your going to bump them back, its better fire a strike on the way that will disturb and distort their structure toward a foreward or sideways angle.so the bump is ten fold intensified.if your a little off ballance and someone bumps into you its  like a battering ram.


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## Jimi (Feb 8, 2009)

I agree. Although I figured strikes throughout an entry is taken for typical. Every Step a Kick or Knee, Every Knee or Kick a Step. I also like a good shin lever if the guy is strong of leg, my Luar Sapu Dalem can shin lever him right down. This discussion I like. PEACE Infinite Beginner.


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## infinite beginner (Feb 8, 2009)

Typically two entering  strikes .one to occupy,distract etc if it connects fine if it doesnt,fine , main  purpose is a set up ,so as .to let the second strike slip under the radar.Its  purpose is desruction and meticulous ,precision manipulation.this determines the level of stability they will have once you' ve closed range.which in turn determines the amount of effort needed to execute any technique.


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## infinite beginner (Feb 9, 2009)

your only as good as the expectations of your teachers,silat is an internal
art its not meant to be gone thru or ever completed its a circle of straight lines that go on forever.no half way point will meet you on the path.its fighting yoga .all you gather and dont use you will  lose. the jurus keep EVERYTHING alive. one juru motion should instantly reference a dozen techniques.


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## Glycerine0160 (Feb 10, 2009)

This material is by far the greatest, most philosophical fighting material I have ever heard. I need to find myself a silat school. I want to learn how to use this concept of continuous strikes with balance etc. My school has a mix of jkd/kali/silat in it, but I just really want to devote my teachings to primarily this stuff and I want a teacher who can thoroughly go into debt with the patterns and movements like you have hear.

Great stuff.


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## redantstyle (Feb 10, 2009)

> Ah, but do we really want to move them back


 
the displacement is slight.  i was going to use the term bump, but that doesnt really address it very well either.   cutting is another term that is used for this, i think. 

and they wont move back, regardless, because you have your hands on them.


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## Glycerine0160 (Feb 10, 2009)

redant and infinte, what states do you live in?

Also, where did your teachers get their certifications?
(were they born in the US)


I am just curious because you both seem to have such precise knowledge on the art.


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## infinite beginner (Feb 11, 2009)

what I spoke of is more of a formula, of course theres no rules in fighting at the end of the day its all just highly refined common sense.


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## infinite beginner (Feb 17, 2009)

even a question like, how many ways can you grab a wrist?To the ordinary person the question seems simple ,to the martial artist it is profound.


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## doc D (Feb 19, 2009)

I'm not on here much anymore. Glycerine, what state are YOU in? I know some reputable instructors around and about.
Doc D
Dallas Tx


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## infinite beginner (Feb 21, 2009)

there are different gear mode shifts in timing. the set ups are lightning fast ,hands must flow like water.


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## infinite beginner (Feb 21, 2009)

when you first start silat you want to go fast and they make you go slow
then after a while you want to go slow and they make you go fast.thats why I say look for any excuse to relate what you are doing to silat take a small piece of any juru motion and carry it around all day PRACTICE small moves when you cant PRACTICE big moves.your body is the vehicle of the art.and its the source of all your super silat powers.


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## infinite beginner (Feb 27, 2009)

a good teacher will give you a few things in a short time that you will practice a life time.many teachers are just great fighters who promise their students 
they can transfer their skills.skill must come from with in,only guidence can come from with out.


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## infinite beginner (Feb 27, 2009)

silat is the opposite of shortcut self defense.for every one good technique you learn, you have to be responsible for a hundred kinds of counters, in order to fully trust your life to the technique.what technique is worth your life?


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## infinite beginner (Mar 4, 2009)

one word,flexibility,something that come's natural to the indigenous practitioner,is for many, a great hurdle to achieve,often a lengthy prerequisite to enter into the art.wrist and hip flexibility are taken
to extreemes.also you have to be universally flexible to ride out the sharp pulls and twists used in whiplash techniques.


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## infinite beginner (Mar 7, 2009)

using a car analogy,one arm could be seen as the accelerator/brake/steering wheel.and the other the grill and bumper.


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## redantstyle (Mar 7, 2009)

> many teachers are just great fighters who promise their students
> they can transfer their skills


 
indeed. 



> using a car analogy,one arm could be seen as the accelerator/brake/steering wheel.and the other the grill and bumper.


 
lost me there...


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## infinite beginner (Mar 7, 2009)

I was affraid of that, allow me to reiterate.In jurus usually both hands are in motion, yet mostly one hand or the other is strilking at any given instant.The other hand/arm has to be doing something.One of the things it can be doing is guiding or steering the strike.Take the single stick as an extreem example, how the empty hand is always in play, reinforcing and changing the angle and force of the swing or strike.that same principle you see in x block/strike,jurus motions.thats the principle Im drawing reference to.


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## Glycerine0160 (Mar 7, 2009)

I need to phrase you into a calendar. Have a new note for everyday. Might give my day the kind of inspiration it may lack.


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## infinite beginner (Mar 11, 2009)

silat is a point blank system.In real time application you could never see how it works,For demonstration the motions have been widened and watered down ,so you can see the strikes.In reality,the strikes are so close, fast and connected it looks like an invisible art.


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## infinite beginner (Mar 12, 2009)

since every strike will either extend or compress the opponent the flow of the jurus is meant to intercept intersect.a good close range strike at medium level will bring the head racing down to meet an elbow racing up etc...


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## infinite beginner (Mar 18, 2009)

The facts of silat are simple and hard to master.simple is simple but understanding is never simple.simplicity is always at the heart of the complex.to simplify fighting is imposable .always strive to do the impossible.or ? to make what isnt, "is".


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## infinite beginner (Mar 22, 2009)

Is it best to most focus on converting weaknesses into strenghs or to focus on making present strenghs into super strenghs?I tend to lean towards the latter.for example if a low reverse cresent kick or a spinning reverse elbow is the thing you naturally do best and you really develope that according to the art. in this way you are bringing and offering your
best and adding more to the art instead of always of trying to take,take, take.


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## infinite beginner (Mar 22, 2009)

And most importantly, when I speak for everyone Im speaking only for myself mostly.


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## infinite beginner (Mar 30, 2009)

to put it simply, there is hand work and there is foot work two completely seperate things.no relation.a hip is not a shoulder leg is not an arm you 
can not grab with your toes good pinch at best.how the f can these fall together.How can you get 100 percent power,efficiency and accuracy from both, at the same timing.the missing key ,is that which makes it  possible to punch full blast in any direction with out inhibiting the ability the simultaineously kick full blast in any direction.


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## infinite beginner (Mar 30, 2009)

that is the algebra of silat. labeling and defining the unknown


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## infinite beginner (Apr 1, 2009)

All comparative dialogue inevitably dissolve's into feuding discordance over detail.


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## infinite beginner (Apr 2, 2009)

people dont scrap like the old times your almost as likely to get shot
as you are to get punched silat not meant to be sport in training its like you fire blanks your not going to hit the groin hook the arm and elbow your training partner in the back of the head as you break both their 
legs


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## infinite beginner (Apr 4, 2009)

one thing ,when I say blanks, I dont mean punch the air.In training strike's should  have some contact and or placement.It takes skill to do this in real time, minus critical injuries.in training the emphasis is on precision over power.its harder to nick the bulls eye then to hit it dead on


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## ChingChuan (Apr 5, 2009)

Perhaps this is a stupid question... but why are you so keen on filling a topic all by yourself?


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## infinite beginner (Apr 5, 2009)

No stupid questions only stupid answers.here's mine, at this point Im not looking to add to my knowledge so much as to try to add to the understanding of what I know and study at the moment. .its interesting to discover new things but I believe the foundation must be deep rooted embracing the basics as the core of the art.In other words when there is no disconnect between the most basic and most complex advanced,you have foundation.what was your question again?some one else write something.attack anything you disagree with.


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## infinite beginner (Apr 7, 2009)

Im just firing loaded rhetorical targets into the wind.


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## infinite beginner (Apr 9, 2009)

If you stand with arms out stretched in front and make vertical fist's gradually expanding arms opening and closing hands ,peripheral vision will blur into visualization where its not clear if you see your hands move or you think you see your hands move.a good drill to train peripheral ability.


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## infinite beginner (Apr 23, 2009)

The hardest part is how to put all your knowledge together into one moment.thats why its not easy to dabble excessively and relate the 
material on command as the moment demands.


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## infinite beginner (Apr 26, 2009)

no where is timing so meticulously executed as in the art of trapping


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## infinite beginner (Apr 29, 2009)

To do silat takes a really good imagination in motion.thru practice and progress injury and healing you learn the body is far more complex and far harder to understand in one life time than all martial arts combined.in other words its higher purpose is to help explain what you are.


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## infinite beginner (Apr 29, 2009)

this alone seems reason enough to show honor and appreciation for all
martial arts.


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## infinite beginner (May 5, 2009)

It seems the body is limited in the efficiency of motion but the efficiency is unlimited.


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## Carol (May 5, 2009)

infinite beginner said:


> It seems the body is limited in the efficiency of motion but the efficiency is unlimited.



Profound statement, but quite true :asian:


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## infinite beginner (May 8, 2009)

why do jurus look so strange?To learn a foreign language, first you must have a native language to translate and incorporate back to.The new must be an extention of the old.in other words in silat a bridge must be constructed backwards ,there is no reference to extend.you must make your own language.


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## infinite beginner (May 9, 2009)

if much of what I write seems confusing, its because I find silat is confusing, much of its stratagy is to confuse.as for jurus ,until you know the reason for all those crazy motions, then they are just that.


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## infinite beginner (May 9, 2009)

Its my guess why jurus look so strange, is because of the multi task function of each motion.any normal looking motion would be too limited


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## infinite beginner (May 15, 2009)

if all words are variations of the abc's.all than all motion is a variation of the jurus


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## redantstyle (May 15, 2009)

> Its my guess why jurus look so strange, is because of the multi task function of each motion.any normal looking motion would be too limited



as well, many of the applications are short power and leverage blocks.  performed solo, these motions often appear a bit odd or even useless.


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## infinite beginner (May 16, 2009)

put it this way,jurus are two faced, one practice, one combative application.the two barely resemble one another.one is a handfull of fixed motions the other is everything you know.


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## infinite beginner (May 23, 2009)

If the first thing you do works that is luck if the second works that is technique if the third works that is skill,?


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## tellner (May 23, 2009)

IB, would you please, for the love of the gods give it a rest? You're not offering any insights. You're not saying anything useful. Nobody wants to hear what you're saying. Mostly what you're doing is making a fool of yourself in an echo chamber.


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## infinite beginner (May 23, 2009)

maybe not to an expert like you Teller,Im offering oppurtunity for insights thats more than you.look at my words Im not trying to shroud you in universal illumination Im just lighting fires.in the darkness put em out feed em I dont give a sht.


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## destructautomaton (May 23, 2009)

I thought tellner brought up a good point. Your posts are more cryptic and kwai chai cane than enlightening. If you made a more detailed, thought out post once in awhile then get feedback you might get some better feedback. The one liners are not that enlightening but to each his own.  sometimes less is more but you need to explain more and post less. Just my two cents.


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## infinite beginner (May 23, 2009)

I will make you a deal  I will write something and if no one reads it I will stop.but first give a definition of this great martial equanimity you must possess ,by example


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## destructautomaton (May 23, 2009)

with your great supposed intelligence, you are missing the point, write a detailed post rather two lines of gibberish.  we'd all appreciate that more.


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## infinite beginner (May 23, 2009)

I dont mean to be cryptic,but this is a fighting forum! fact or fiction.If people were so infuriated like teller is, than some wave of attack would follow every letter typed.scream your peace.


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## infinite beginner (May 23, 2009)

sorry


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## infinite beginner (May 23, 2009)

I didnt know you jumped on I meant the message for the last guy one fight at a time.


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## infinite beginner (May 23, 2009)

take a number


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## infinite beginner (May 23, 2009)

silat is a short art that takes a long lifetime to learn, my words are short but they are not simple.


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## tellner (May 24, 2009)

Infuriated? No. 
Fed up with your infinite self importance and gibberish? Yes.

So far you haven't contributed anything useful or even entertaining.


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## infinite beginner (May 24, 2009)

excuuuuuzz me! I dont amuse you maybe Id rather confuse you.maybe you just can't handle the truth,maybe your waiting for your teacher show you the truth, maybe your resentful for not having the physique for real silat.


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## redantstyle (May 24, 2009)

what makes tellner an expert?

and beyond that, why dont you two mind your own business?

you no likee thread, you no clikee link.

JMBarr
Liu Seong Gung Fu
aka ktk


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## tellner (May 25, 2009)

I'm not an expert, but I can read and comprehend. These fortune cookies add no new information. They don't shed any light at all on Silat. In fact, they make simple, straightforward things appear to be mystic B.S.

Go back and re-read your Hans Christian Andersen. Start with _The Emperor's New Clothes_


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## infinite beginner (May 26, 2009)

most importantly martial arts teach the physics of the body the jurus are designed to exercise those physics.the physics is turned into fighting, not the other way around.you fight as the weapon dictates.you fight the jurus fight because it pushes and exploits human physics to an extreem.why do jurus motions of distant systems bear so much resembance?intricacies vary but there a stream of sameness that runs thru it.and I guarantee you any style old school jungle silat fighter of centuries past would be a force to reckon with never seen.


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## doc D (May 28, 2009)

Initially, this thread, I believe , was focused on why you came to practice silat versus other arts. Perhaps what frustrates some of the readers is that it has transformed into an "Esoteric Musings on the Art of Silat" thread.....which would probably be a fine thread for those who want more of that. Some people like esoteric philosophical discussion....others prefer direct , pragmatic ,specific analytical discussion that is less "poetic". Maybe a different thread dedicated to the former would be better. Obviously ,some find the current flavor of this thread tedious while others enjoy it. 
I always think that when you come on and post , it's nice to introduce one's self rather than remain enigmatic , especially if you want to post considerable amount of opinion and discussion. It helps others understand one's perspective , experience level, cultural background and from where you are bringing forth your opinions and observations . "Knowing your audience " also allows you to choose the best way to communicate your observations to them. Myself, I am based in Dallas Tx . I've studied silat here in USA and abroad and work in Pencak Silat Mande Muda, Silat Minangkabau Harimau and Silat Seni Kuntau Tekpi. I've trained in numerous other arts , including Maphilindo Silat , JKD, Filipino Kali /Escrima methods , Military science and also have minor exposure to Silat Amerindo. 
I'd love to know the background (s) of Infinite Beginner and some of the other participants on this thread, merely out of curiousity. Infinite Beginner, this might help some of the readers place your sentences in a better perspective , rather than simply viewing them as overly poetic and obscure . Just a thought.

With Respect,
Doc D


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## infinite beginner (May 28, 2009)

Direct,                      .
pragmatic,
specific,
analytical


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## infinite beginner (May 28, 2009)

Words of a silat man.


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## Master K (May 28, 2009)

Infinte Beginner,

It would appear that some people enjoy your musings, while others do not.  If I may make a suggestion...perhaps you could start a thread for your musings as opposed to continuing to post your musings on this thread.  Another option would be to start a blog regarding Silat and your take on the information that has been handed down to you as well as how you perceive the information to aid you in your studying of the style.

Please do not view this as an attack, as it is not.  I originally started to read this thread for the reason of the title, "Why Silat?" and it is clear that this thread is a wee bit off topic at this point.

Respectfully,
Master K.


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## infinite beginner (May 29, 2009)

"abandon hope all yee that enter here" this thread kinda unwound if you want to tie it back together have at it.


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## doc D (May 29, 2009)

Well, in the interest of tying it all back together, why not let us know a bit about you....What style of pencak silat you practice, where you learned it , how long you have been training in it and how you came to study it rather than one of the many other martial art styles that are out there. Was it hard to find a teacher in your area? Easy?

With Respect

Doc D


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## infinite beginner (May 30, 2009)

It all to do with why I like this art. one thing is damn fun. Never has anything exhausted so much effort to do something effortlessly.Its
like you walk in the door and see someone walking on a tight rope 
and they make it look easy.and then you try it after a few years 
you might make it across and then the wire is raised and you take the same skills you learned on the low wire and you walk across the high wire the only thing that changes ,is the danger.


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## infinite beginner (May 30, 2009)

The hardest part is the measure of too little or too much.measure of distance, measure of pressure,measure of timing,measure of ballance,measure of force,measure of resistance


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## infinite beginner (May 30, 2009)

What some call silat others call martial science.Human genius finds its way thru every culture.thru spiritual beliefs,nature, hunting, warfare, feasting, art,music and dance,all seen as one thing conected inseparable silat evolved.or to put it this way how can you seperate the art from the culture with out affecting both.


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## infinite beginner (May 30, 2009)

Like Jim Morrison says "Dance on fire"," Untill The End"You have to hear the silat music of your style in the back of your mind when you train.


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## infinite beginner (May 30, 2009)

There is almost a symbiotic battle between the music and the dance 
as if the musicians were trying to throw off the dancers, to challenge them always breaking their timing.


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## infinite beginner (Jun 27, 2009)

when every jurus feels like the same move you know your art, but the hardest part is finding enough pieces to put it all together with out bastardizing mixing systems twisting traditions.you dont learn technique you are technique.you move in head to toe sychronicity,and since it is a full body response, it shouldn't much matter which jurus that you choose.against any attack.you move like an animal, as one ,aware of all your weapons and weaknesses at once.your mind is clear with out fear.
only pure awareness and cautious confidence


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## infinite beginner (Jun 28, 2009)

fear comes in many forms could courage exist with out fear.fear is always 
ready to fight you like a perpetual opponent with in that never surrenders.physical fear thrives on tension create's division in motion
and seperations in timing.The problem is silat wont work unless you are
calm and relaxed no chi etc...it as much mastery of emotional management as physical discipine.if you are calm, confident in your matterial and focused it will increase your skills tenfold


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## Tensei85 (Jun 28, 2009)

Based on my limited training in the following Silat Serak & Haramurti Silat.

Take note, I train when ever possible but my interactions were limited.

But I've always had a lot of respect for the various styles of Silat, the techniques are perfectly applicable to virtually every scenario. 

The training was truly awesome as well!

Its definitely something that one day I would like to persue in more detail.


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## infinite beginner (Jul 3, 2009)

silat is like a huge umbrella .of all the arts, it might be the most impossible to define,certainly the most mysterious and misunderstood.under the premise that there are many many varieties of silat practitioners viewing sights like this the objective has been to boast generalities in order shed light and discover similarities.Im trying to provoke contradiction.your silat is not my silat even if we have the same teacher. to refine skills you must personalize them. this the way Ive been taught to look at it


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## Glycerine0160 (Jul 8, 2009)

I probably won't be doing it this summer, maybe next summer. But definitely once I get my Bachelors degree I want to spend some time to train elsewhere.

The place I am at right now doesn't really offer the more intense training one would really desire. The price is quite the bargain, but in my 18-20 months of training, I feel its time to start taking things seriously. (we probably train 10-20% in our training, and our sparring is probably about 50% while pulling almost everything off the punches and kicks)

I'm looking for a silat or  silat/kali mixture. 
ATM my school is (jkd, kali, silat)

My one friend told me he knows this great place in minnesota if I'd be willing to live out there (I'm from jersey)

Obviously Cali would be great with inosanto out there and all, but I'd prefer a relatively closer place and wouldn't mind a cheaper standard of living while im out there. (despite jersey and cali are similar in that regard)


My friend said his personal opinion is he likes learning in a mixed silat environment, although he has been to places with one strict type and said they were good.
I don't really have thoughts on this, perhaps maybe someone here can offer that. 

But out of all the knowledge anyone has here about a great place to train, what would your insight be on that? What would be your favorite suggestion for a place to learn silat?


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## doc D (Jul 9, 2009)

You can find some Pencak Silat Mande Muda Instructors on www.suwandaacademy.com. Rob Mckay is up that way or check out www.pecahan.com 
I list some Texas folks on www.texassilat.org 
The JKD schools are easier to find here in the USA and often offer some silat ( Maphilindo silat) . In many cases other forms of silat are still hard to find. Getting training might require relocation or be as simple as developing a "long distance training relationship" with a teacher .
With Respect,

Doc D.


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## Glycerine0160 (Jul 9, 2009)

doc D said:


> You can find some Pencak Silat Mande Muda Instructors on www.suwandaacademy.com. Rob Mckay is up that way or check out www.pecahan.com
> I list some Texas folks on www.texassilat.org
> The JKD schools are easier to find here in the USA and often offer some silat ( Maphilindo silat) . In many cases other forms of silat are still hard to find. Getting training might require relocation or be as simple as developing a "long distance training relationship" with a teacher .
> With Respect,
> ...



Thanks. 

Rob Mckay seems like he knows his stuff while just looking at the website.

I also checked out this Minnesota Kali Group which teaches Maphilindo Silat like you said.

The thing I really like about the MKG is they teach throughout the day, and if I'm staying at a location to learn, that seems more ideal as opposed to Mckay who only teaches   tues/thurs.  for 90 minutes.

That's how I see it so far. Cause I really just want to spend my time training where ever I travel.


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## infinite beginner (Jul 12, 2009)

It matter's not how many times you can hit ,only how many times you will not get hit.every deflection is a deception of perception.


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## infinite beginner (Jul 28, 2009)

to grab with the wrist is a refined skill


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## Jimi (Jul 28, 2009)

To type with the hand is a grand skill of the will. Never to be triffled with.  Hi Infinite. Just wanted to keep in touch. A touch is a punch or a kick or even a shove to off balance is the key to the universe. Universal interception is the deception of the wise, or smart @$$.

Steve Braun in Maryland has quite a bit of experience with Mande Muda and I belive Bukti Negara as well. He should not be hard to find.


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## infinite beginner (Jul 28, 2009)

I am glad some people don't understand what I write


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## Jimi (Jul 29, 2009)

I understand, but I believe it is pretentious to behave so enlightened as if your opinion/words are Silat Gospel. You think I do not understand because I am not wrapped up or charmed in your musings. You would not believe I do not understand Silat if we simply crossed arms/shins. I just don't believe your writtings are specific to only Silat and it is just word play to sound insightful. That is unenlightened. 

I simply believe you try to write over peoples heads in short vague segments to feel superior to those who do not get it from your word smithery (?is that a real word?) As I have said before Silat is engraved upon my heart until the end. Otherwise I will discuss Silat in a manner which most can try to understand rather than speak as though I were the high and mighty Silat Grand Inquistitor. LOL. 

I trust your Jurus, Sambuts and words have brought you up to a plane of consiousness not unlike ascending to Silat Heaven and we down here can not understand the Divine Language of the Infinite Beginner. If you truely think I do not understand Silat or your expressions simply because I am not enthrawled by your choice of fancifull wordings of nuggets o' wisedom, then I am glad you think I do not understand. 

Many have said before that your wording throws people off, not that what you write can not have deep meaning. I feel that your words can have much meaning just not specific to only Silat. Previously when you and I discussed this you threw an Authors name at me as if to insult my writting (Childrens book Author maybe) as if I were beneath you. LOL. I see that you may be an aspiring writter (just from that engagment and your posting) so is this true Silat insight or practice for your Novel or Obituary/Movie Critic columns? I jabbed that at you on purpose man. 

I expect some sort of sharply worded retort belittling and degrading my understanding of Silat and the beauty of the written word or something of the like so you can stand as a superior word smith and keeper of Silats Sacred knowledge. LOL.

I wish I could BS as well as you, but my words are much more grounded than that of the Grammatical Weavings of the Infinite One.

BTW, the Indonesian, Malay and Filipino languages of differing Silat systems origins do not express the same as the well worded written english lanuage. Such charming musings would carry much more effect if drawn from the language of origin and then translated for us unenlightened. Otherwise many will choke on the Fortune Cookie Speak. LOL.

Yours truely, this lost soul of Silat, Jimi


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## Glycerine0160 (Jul 29, 2009)

hahaha.


You two should get married in Indonesia.
Although, I think the miscommunication will end it in divorce.


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## infinite beginner (Jul 29, 2009)

As far as I can tell silat is above all our heads. I like to train I like to write tryin stop me.


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## Jimi (Jul 30, 2009)

Not trying to stop you. I simply expressed my opinion of your postings and the relation between other peoples opinion of the way you post = sounding like your insights are inspired by the divine. LOL. It is clear you care for Silat, just think your writtings are not worded well for those who want to discuss Silat below the Philisophical spiritual  ehterial aspects as insinuated in your postings.

My own belief is that Silat in many of its differing systems is DAMN combative. While training in a few systems myself as well as Shooto Shoot Wrestling i have seen that the weapons (stick, blade=barong karambit etc...) work aside Silat can tear a body asunder using many techniques that Shooto would find illegal in practice or competition. this i absolutely believe is quite a compliment to Silat. You can word you posts as you wish no doubt as can I, but neither of us can expect that no-one will have something critical to post in response. (We will never get married in Indonesia nor divorced, LOL)

I do believe you have some experience in Sliat, how much time in, what systems & under which Pendakar or Guro is undefined as far as i can tell, but that does not mean you can not have an opinion. i just find the way you write to sound like a high schooler trying to sound like they have a college philsophy professors insights. Grew up with calling professors of philosophy & public policy by their first names as I was a campus rat.

If I could interact here about Silat with you without it being a battle of wills as to who is the better (More spiritualy deep insightful poster) and discuss technique without it being about us, i would be quite pleased. It is not about pleasing me though, it is about why Silat?

Trying to discuss tech/priciple here. In Mande Muda, the typical stance is a forward leaning stance for balance and pressure. i was instructed that the founder of Mande Muda had a physical condition effecting one of his legs and maybe more and this stance was his adaptation to ensure his forward crying on the shoulder pressure. 

For other practitioners of this system not affected by such a condition, and specific aspect to training the stance has been shared. it invovles a string, i worked this quite a bit more than a decade ago. i respect it for it helped. 

Anyone else familiar with this? i would like to discuss.

i apologize for my long winded post, just want to clear the air between infinite and myself so maybe we all, including infinite can discuss this on a level the rest of us can be down with. 

Infinite, you can respond as simply or as philisophical as you wish, just as before simply hoping for more discussion of Silat than hearing someones (In my opinion) high handed writtings.


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## infinite beginner (Jul 31, 2009)

Our reasonings grasp at straws for premisis.painting speech that we by tracing magic lines are taught how to embody and to colour thought.All the worlds a sage.


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## Jimi (Aug 1, 2009)

How beautiful. Do you or do you not know this use of string for drilling the stance infinite? This helped my Lankas, Jurus and Sambuts structure to become much more effective. Anyone else?

One and the same breeze blows thru the pines on the mountain and the oaks in the valley and yet they give different notes.


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## infinite beginner (Aug 1, 2009)

"end ever end,and forever begin again" sounds like you need to join a school. like your seeking understanding that you lack.


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## infinite beginner (Aug 1, 2009)

In silat everything is a weapon there is too much going on to categorically break down combative combinations. the knee shin and heel might being doing five things while the hands are striking


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## Jimi (Aug 1, 2009)

so true, every word of it.


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## doc D (Aug 3, 2009)

Hello Jimi. The founding instructor with the physical disability was that of the Serak system I believe. Pak Uyuh had no significant impairments that I am aware of aside from his knees did not like harimau work as much in his later years. You're right Steve Braun has back ground in Mande Muda. He would be a good source of training up that way. 
Warm regards
Doc


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## doc D (Aug 4, 2009)

Just as an observation from one who has been following this thread for a while and seen it drift off on tangents as opposed to its original intent. I think that what Infinite Beginner does not have a handle on is how , American martial artists percieve the "sing song ", vague , esoteric, indirect language used in his posts. ( I can't speak for other cultures).That is why he sometimes gets the reactions that he does. Here in the USA ,back in the 70s when the TV show "Kung Fu" was popular, the star portrayed by David Carradine spoke in vague, esoteric mystical language seasoned with broken /pidgeon English. Before you knew it,you had martial arts instructors who seemed to adopt that style of speech when talking to students and others about their art....talking in Zen Koans, Asian parables,pidgeon English ,etc, ....often mediocre teachers trying to come off as having some sort of deep, far reaching ,mystic insight to these "exotic" fighting arts , that ,at that time, were fairly unfamiliar to the American public. It has become more of a joke....something that is repeatedly PARODIED in comedy routines and even members of our more wise-cracking martial artists. So here in the USA , serious martial artists who have "been around the block " tend to find such language corny , unnecessary or tedious if used ad. nauseum..."constantly and to the extreme". Certainly the points made can still be insightful and valid , but often time direct ,concrete statements are more respected and appreciated. One who talks like this in America is often suspected of trying to "put on over on others" by trying to sounds as if they have secret , deep, superior insights into an art. The novice may hang on every syllable of the sing song poetry but if used too much , many other folks will just think "Give it a rest, get to the point and stop beating around the bush " and quickly tire of what that person has to say. This is just my assessment of why people react to Infinite Beginner as they do. I've seen a mixed response ,but those who have a lot of training years under their belts are the ones who seem to react the most negatively. Subjects touched on are quite nice as ,myself being a pesilat, I know what he refers to. However, the "language" the subjects are wrapped in often caused the point to be lost because this method of communication is being overused as it was overused by the old "Kung Fu" fan/ martial arts instructor of the 1970s. We all can get a bit philosophic on our arts but we try not to "over do it". Again as this thread started out as "Why did you choose silat?" , people are interested in specifics relative to that. Those people are also wanting to know what is studied, with whom , where , how long ,etc. and what attracted you to the art as opposed to philosophic musings on ever minute detail of the art.
Just my observations on the direction and flavor the thread has had at times . Since so many react to Infinite Beginner as they do I thought I'd explain why I percieve that to be happening. I still think interactions would be less inflammatory at times if Infinite Beginner really introduced himself by way of style, back ground , location, and some specifics rather than only throwing out esoteric, philosophical statements continuously. It would help to have folks understand and connect with you more as a fellow martial artist and silat enthusiast.

With Respect,
Doc


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## doc D (Aug 4, 2009)

Infinite Beginner, I myself am quite curious as to your background since you have, indeed, been a source of numerous posts here. I was curious what style or styles you may have studied ....although I maintain all good silat styles share the same basic , sound principles and tactics  that make silat what it is. How many years have you put into the pursuit of silat? Where did you train ( in what culture or country) ? I assume where you studied , there were also other styles of martial arts that you might have chosen to study. Why did you choose silat over them? Was there a particular teacher or practitioner that impressed you so as to entice you to study silat versus the other arts?

With Respect,

Doc D


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## infinite beginner (Aug 4, 2009)

silat is aero-yogic kickboxing performed by magicians.any is as good as any other if you look deep enough.an art of few motions that re train and refine tune reflexes until silat practices itself thru you all the time.why it makes you nearly impervious to slips trips and spills that take out ordinary folk on a regular basis.when was the last time you heard of a silat guy slipping in the bath tub wont happen if they are practicing their structure
or better yet the structure is practicing it self.its like the structure is wet cement when you start and after ten or so years it is concrete.


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## Glycerine0160 (Aug 4, 2009)

This is overly amusing.

We will never find out his true identity.


Personally, I rather enjoy it. I feel these proverbs bring about things to always keep fresh in the mind. I actually wish I had or eventually have an instructor who embraces that more naturalistic way of the art. One who focuses on the structure of your opponent and yourself rather than this is how you perform this task. I think it makes it all flow easier and will ultimately make you a more efficient martial artist/self defense practitioner. Otherwise, you have cut and dry moves acting like a machine, acting on a mechanical function. The better the understanding, the better execution of the move, even under a indeterminable environment.


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## infinite beginner (Aug 5, 2009)

I thought they meant, why is there silat? if some one you know walks up to you and says why do you do silat ?you say, I can show you,just throw a punch. that would better resolve their question than miles of cyber type
ever could.perhaps a post could possibly be created that was more specific.why I wasted half my life doing all those other crappy martial arts.


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## infinite beginner (Aug 6, 2009)

Why do people go or turn to martial arts to begin with.what most psychologically motivates people to do martial arts??self defense
seems to be a popular response.defense against what a fear of being jabbed ,grabbed or accosted in a particular way so you can produce some practiced heroic counter.thats what draws alot in but why they stay seems more complicated.maybe for the challenge and thrill of fighting with out the streets ambush and random fatality. street fighting filtered into a controlled environment of learning.laughing thru bloody noses twisted ligiments.two things people tend to approach seriously religion and fighting.martial arts is not quite either


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## Jimi (Aug 8, 2009)

Thank you infinite beginner, I feel I can obsorb this much easier. I absolutely agree. Growing up near DC, I got into martial arts more out of neccessity than trying to be heroic. lol. but out of many arts i have trained in SILAT is quite powerfull. The finishes in Silat are very brutal and effective making it very very compitent for street self defense. Regardless of how we post, I believe we both admire Silat for some of the same reasons. Infinite, Peace man.


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## infinite beginner (Aug 11, 2009)

in silat we attack the motion around the structure not the muscle with in the structure.


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## infinite beginner (Aug 11, 2009)

angle is to force what water is to fire


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## infinite beginner (Aug 12, 2009)

as in rock and jazz comes from and goes back to the blues silat comes from and goes back to the street.that could sum up my perspective.


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## Jimi (Aug 12, 2009)

Infinite Beginner, Your comment about angle is to force what water is to fire is right on. I can dig that. I am an Architectural & Mechanical Engineering Draftsman (AutoCad Monkey), LOL, so that is very deep to me. I like that. I hope we can better get along. I must learn to look beyond the way someone posts. LOL. 

Silat can crash as well as give way. It can be hard and soft. Many things about Silat impress me. I was not just trying to be contrary to your post Infinite, I just think I may be coming around (LOL) as long as we respect Silat how we post is insignificant. PEACE


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## infinite beginner (Aug 13, 2009)

here's more droning droll monologue going on and on and on and on and on and on more barrages of ambiguous assertions .more detatched references unhindered by definition.in silat the word is when.


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## Jimi (Aug 13, 2009)

The mere posting of anything I submit seems to pain you man. Or am I reading you wrong? Silat rules, oh wait, Silat is a street art, there are no rules. lol. peace


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## infinite beginner (Aug 17, 2009)

Its 99 percent set up ,one percent knock out


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## infinite beginner (Aug 17, 2009)

uh,nothing personal meant to anyone ever,this aint about issue's unless you wanna make it about issues.lets see how tough you can write, who can knuckle out that knock out - paragraph? on your blood stained key board


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## infinite beginner (Sep 2, 2009)

its good to always practice basics that way the basics are allways in a state of improvement.the basics grow with your skill and understanding. the basics of now is what puzzles you at the moment 
if nothing's puzzlling you Get out! run ! dont look back, its not silat


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## infinite beginner (Sep 7, 2009)

skill is technique plus confidence, abillity, attitude and understanding.


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## infinite beginner (Sep 12, 2009)

you dont rehearse a fire drill to practice panicking which is why in silat we practice slow.


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## infinite beginner (Sep 26, 2009)

Think smaller by going slower. "its the little things that kill".


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## infinite beginner (Sep 26, 2009)

anyone knows everything revolves around the point of contact and no two points of contact are ever exactly the same.unless your fighting a robot but
not a very sophisticated one.


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## infinite beginner (Oct 8, 2009)

also silat makes you feel good physically.how can it not.the freedom of motion opens circullation and energy channels.for me at times, very hard to start training, but almost always I dont want to stop , I have to tear myself away from it ,with twice the resistance it took to over come to begin in the first place.some thing about being in continuous motion, very energizing and habit forming.the value of a school is the incentive to keep up with at worst, conquer at best, all the other students. self defense as the only motivation isnt enough incentive to replace the sporting mock animosity a school can provide.


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## infinite beginner (Oct 9, 2009)

In the first motion of the first juru is the key to the entire   system.. also , never honk at anyone on the street unless your ready to fight! especialy if just your luck  they happen to be going to the same parking lot you are.if as soon as they spot you they start swearing,at this point do not stop and attempt to humer them! any rational only fuels their rage!next time  just smile , ignore them go in the store.


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## infinite beginner (Oct 9, 2009)

point being, if someone does something stupid and dangerous on the road 
they are very likely very stupid and dangerous in other environments as well.I dont know what happened, he got out of his car walked toward me
maybe five feet away put his hands up like he was going walk in and shove me I just stood there then he just stopped All I know is I was far more relaxed then Ive ever been in these kinds of situations I was so calm it scares me to think about it It must have scared him to.he never came any closer and it dissolved into a minor argument.But thats just another way of using silat.all I know I couldnt have felt so relaxed if I didnt know how much the art's motions demand it.just an oddity for the silat twilight zone.


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## infinite beginner (Oct 10, 2009)

Our tension and fear must be among our most powerful tools how else can it be that they so often control and over rule us.


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## infinite beginner (Oct 17, 2009)

Art only needs a beginning from that point it is endless.at some point you see your teacher just to be reminded how endless the art is.


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## infinite beginner (Oct 29, 2009)

Enjoy the fight, Despise the violence.


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## infinite beginner (Nov 6, 2009)

Inspiration precedes perspicacity.


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## infinite beginner (Nov 8, 2009)

what physicist do with atoms, silat does with timing that is, to smash it.


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## infinite beginner (Nov 14, 2009)

Its always less dangerous to be free of all pre conceived notion


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## infinite beginner (Nov 14, 2009)

All those who practice a martial art must choose to live more dangerously
although its always risk'y to speak or think in absolutes


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## infinite beginner (Nov 16, 2009)

we can spend many years to learn a thousand sword fighting techniques,or all of our years to be the sword.


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## Brother John (Nov 16, 2009)

Brian R. VanCise said:


> Personally I love that close in manipulation and leg destructions.


Those are the very things that impress me the most about Silat. I've seldom watched/seen a Silat practitioner execute their techniques w/out me being impressed with the contact manipulation, the destructiveness AND having sympathy pains in my knees and ankles as I watch the 'attacker's' lower limbs get torqued, twisted, yanked, kneed and stomped on!!!!  

Your Brother
John


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## infinite beginner (Nov 17, 2009)

Thats where all the sick timing comes into play, you might buy a moment with a high attack and in that near gone moment ,you set up and execute a step,or a stomp, sweep etc.then with their un willing cooperation you can go where they are going in the way you choose to go.


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## infinite beginner (Nov 20, 2009)

Inspiration might be the most important drive. what inspires you to do your thousand plus sapu's a day, besides the fact you might have a hell of a sapu 
at the end of the year.your favorite teacher will always be your foremost inspiration.


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## infinite beginner (Nov 25, 2009)

When we make our teacher's proud, we give back to the art.


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## infinite beginner (Dec 14, 2009)

Once I had a teacher, under my present teacher and he would often talk about training to make his and our higher teacher,feel proud I guess it was the way he would say it, like he were about to take an oath of honor "come on guys lets reallymake him feel PROUD" .that hit me hard then and it still does.For a long time I kinda had that take what you can grab and get attitude.plundering thru it for my own purpose's.actually now I have come appreciate what he said more and more with each day.nothing lasts foerver and nothing is impossible


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## infinite beginner (Dec 25, 2009)

merry natal dan hari libur setiap orang   Joyeux Noël et Bonne vacances tout le mondemerry christmas and happy holidays iederGlædelig jul og glade feriedage hverVeselé Vánoce a &#357;astný svátky kadý&#22307;&#35806;&#24555;&#20048;&#65292;&#27599;&#19968;&#20010;&#33410;&#26085;&#24555;&#20048;saoire na Nollag agus sásta Merry gach ceannkislap sa christmas at happy bakasyon sa bawat isamerry vacanze di Natale e felice ogni unomerry christmas and happy holidays alle&#1057;&#1095;&#1072;&#1089;&#1090;&#1083;&#1080;&#1074;&#1086;&#1075;&#1086; &#1056;&#1086;&#1078;&#1076;&#1077;&#1089;&#1090;&#1074;&#1072; &#1080; &#1087;&#1088;&#1072;&#1079;&#1076;&#1085;&#1080;&#1082;&#1080; &#1082;&#1072;&#1078;&#1076;&#1086;&#1075;&#1086;vacaciones de Navidad alegre y feliz a cada uno


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## infinite beginner (Jan 15, 2010)

In the art of silat, there is only one option,and that option, stands alone
as the full, body, bulk and cornerstone, of the art and, that is to go in and bring them to you,but this can occur in any order, so you could break it down, into two options, and four variables, in any order,or to put it blunt
hit em, while they are in motion, if your feeling tired dont be affraid to stretch them out far as possible,heavy, blunt, objects, are easier to move that way,timing takes anticipation,and patients,train, with purpose and dignity,to be a warrior is to protect the weak and defend what is just  honest,and fair,and to mis quote some one from somewhere "there are wolves and there are sheep and between them you have the sheep dog,be a sheep dog"


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## infinite beginner (Feb 18, 2010)

if, you train, from the best,most of the rest, will take care of itself,


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## infinite beginner (Feb 27, 2010)

silat, is full of microscopic, details, here's a little thing that helped me immensely, do your jurus ,say tick,tock,like you are a clock,so the beat is the same between all motions great and small,play with the motions fast, but, always go slow to practice,by the way what I write is for anyone,
not just big headed wise guys,


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## infinite beginner (Feb 28, 2010)

its almost, as if the jurus ,are only, the background, to contain the infinite in betweens,beginners,will think, in terms of jurus, where experts,will only think, in terms of what they see in between, and I should know, because Im no expert, because ,I do go to one


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## infinite beginner (Jul 25, 2010)

the way I see it, its all about, using the jurus for spring like momentum,
to land, and take off, loaded from where ever you are, like using the same
 mechanics  from a karate double reverse punch only starting from a twisted
 structure only at the last second, you switch the feet, to give it spine
cracking power, your own if your not careful, its like a series of awkward
 shifts, that compound, as they unfold


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## infinite beginner (Jul 31, 2010)

the jurus , that great pit fall quagmire of burning maze we have to pass thru 
physical twisting contorting confusions , fumbling for understanding , you 
can not do your jurus until you make the body into a high performance juru machine , bottom line if your a hundred and fifty pounds you want to hit with 
the power of a three hundred pounder , then focus on endless meticulous details , in other words prerequisite study the short root motions of power torque force , all the time ,take one strike out of the jurus and  do it thousands of times a day then when you do this your building jurus muscle or your exercising your jurus muscles to extreme ,  we are all scrapping for scraps and scrambling for crumbs like archaeologists piecing dinosaurs, trying to piece busted puzzles that were whole far away and long ago ,when the art  was all, for life or death, held secret and kept sacred,


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## infinite beginner (Oct 19, 2010)

In,silat,we, cause,damage, with, distraction,and,we destroy,with,focus,


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## infinite beginner (Dec 14, 2010)

for,any,practitioner,,


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## infinite beginner (Dec 14, 2010)

for,any,


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## infinite beginner (Dec 14, 2010)

for,any,


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## infinite beginner (Dec 14, 2010)

for,any,


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## infinite beginner (Dec 14, 2010)

for,any


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## infinite beginner (Dec 14, 2010)

for,any


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## infinite beginner (Dec 14, 2010)

for,any,practitioner,,to,voice,criticism,toward,any,system,with,out,
being,at,their,door,sword,in,hand,is,to,call,,all,systems,out,
on,the,floor,empty,hand,fighting,had,to,be,every,silat
warriors,worst,nightmare,here,is,how,every,knife,fight,starts,
your,cut,just,the,same,as,you,expect,from,a,good,opponent,to,
take,a,hit,of,some,kind,and,we,know,the,kick,can,always,land,
from,out,of,nowhere,in,any,fight,and,we,only,expect the worst
from the best


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## infinite beginner (Dec 14, 2010)

boy,did,I phuckkk,up,I,couldn't,leave,bad,enough,well,alone,I,didn't,realize,I was making,a,trail I,tried,deleting,best,I,could,do,was,edit,sorry,to,Indonesia,to,all,the,styles,that,were,once,but,
are,now,perished,,and,to,all,the,styles,now,that,are,soon,to,be,perished,


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## infinite beginner (Mar 2, 2011)

Well,now,the,way, I see it as,I look back to the most golden moments,
of my training were,moments,of,supervised,insanity,starting,when,I,showed,up,to,
private,class,one,day,just,my,teacher,and,a,senior,instructor,who,had,been,no,more,than,
an,over,cooperative,helpful,advisor,working,with,me,for,many,months,off,and,on,
until,I,knew,the,day,was,coming,but,not,quite,so,soon,we,always,did,two,strikes,
hand,foot,or,both,but,I,got,there,and,my,teacher,had,this,strange,grin,he,told,me,
my,training,partner,was,going,to,get,me,today,as,soon,as,gets,here,no,back,and,
forth,full,speed,and,full,power,two,strikes,no,more,no,less,so,until,he,gets,here,for,
about,ten,minutes,my,teacher,just,is,mumbling,looking,at,me,like,a,dead,man,walking,


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## infinite beginner (Mar 3, 2011)

the,main,function,of,a,jurus,is,to,teach,motion,composition,thru,example,
then,it,becomes,a,tool,applicable,any,where,putting,intricate,combination's,
into,repetition,since,the,hands,move,together,yet,independent,one,hand,can,
even,stay,curriculum,as,the,other,improvises,


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## Miles (Mar 15, 2011)

Hawke said:


> Greetings and Salutations!
> 
> Why did you choose Silat (or why Silat chose you)?
> 
> ...


 
I chose Silat as it was available after the TKD class I teach.

I enjoy being a student and learning new material as well as discovering new insights on old material.


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## infinite beginner (Mar 20, 2011)

very,deep.I,chose,silat,cause,its,the,only,art,for,me,that,and,it, employs,the,whole,body,as,a,weapon,like,no,other,art,Ive,seen,


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## infinite beginner (Mar 20, 2011)

also it is my contention that most of that flowery handwork,is,
for,distracting,and tangling them,high,long enough to destroy them 
with the feet,baiting,the adversary into believing,it is an exchange,
we,dont,want,to,match,hand skills,too,long,when,we,are,countered,
with,a block we,strike thru or,attack,from,a,whole,different,line,their,
force,always,wins,we,never,resist,it,but we,rely,heavily,on,it,and,once,
they,lose,their,balance,its ours.

It,is superior to all other martial arts 
they bore us and they pale by comparison,this is a silat forum other  arts 
while pretty to look at do little for us you,dont hear of many  silat practitioners
 staying after class to do other arts we have our  plate full,the modern stuff we 
mostly see as scrap,thrown together,to,make,money,they come to us and check 
their belts at the door.and to be frank they start their unlearning.


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## infinite beginner (Mar 20, 2011)

we dont care what they know we know when they see  what we do it makes their eyes pop out well not literally, okay literally, we have that,too, but it looks like magic to them just
like it did to us,


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## Miles (Mar 22, 2011)

infinite beginner said:


> It,is superior to all other martial arts
> they bore us and they pale by comparison,this is a silat forum other arts
> while pretty to look at do little for us you,dont hear of many silat practitioners
> staying after class to do other arts we have our plate full,the modern stuff we
> ...


 
I've discovered in nearly 36yrs of training that there is no superior martial art, just superior martial artists.

Everyone training in the Silat class with me also trains in other martial arts.  No one wears their belts from other arts.

As I mentioned, I believe Silat to be very complimentary to my TKD and I enjoy being a student.


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## infinite beginner (Apr 24, 2011)

yes,I,don't,believe,we,study,an,art,so,much,as,attempt,to,emulate,the,skills,
and,tallents,of,the,most,amazing,practitioner,we,can,discover,with,in,our,
geography,that,will,take,us,as,a,private,student,my,teacher,happens,to,
come,from,Indonesia,his,art,happens,to,be,silat,I,like,allot,of,roaming,space,
and,I,went,to,him,because,I,saw,he's,miles,above,me,and,will,always,be,
along,with,silat,as,I,know,it,its,the,thinking,art,where,theres,no,time,to,think,
if,we,make,our,opponent,think,we,are,doing,something,we,have,their,time,
that,moment,they,are,lost,in,thought,we,attack,not,at,all,fair,tactics,we ,all,have,the,same,options,its,how,we,learn,to,compose,and,combine,those,
options,on,the,spot,to,attack,with,quick,distracting,injurious,destruction,does,not
require,power,if,they,happen,to,intercept,the,first,strike,we,have,to,always,
assume,that,they,will,then,we,have,our,power,to,unleash,its,a,formula,built
into,the,system,based,on,acute,highly,trained,advanced,awareness,of,dealing,with,
sensitivities,to,forces,and,pressures,to,me,this,is,the,most,unseen,part,of,the,art
at this other site to squeeze more words I use comma's it,habit,I,just,do,it,but,
here,it,screws,up,the,spaces,to,tedious,to,fix,without taking out all the comma's


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## infinite beginner (Apr 24, 2011)

Ideally, if you think its a block, its a strike,and,if you see a strike coming
thats not the one that is going to hit you .


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## infinite beginner (Jun 17, 2011)

I,wonder, what, the, late, great, Pendekar, Herman, would,
have, said,  about, one, of, his, former, students, of, Lilly, 
white, stout, origin, publicly, up, and, announcing,, himself, 
a, Pendekar, to, faster, market, his, own, name, and, material, 
as, brilliant, as, disgraceful,


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## infinite beginner (Jun 17, 2011)

we, all, really, know, whats, to, say, 
It, would, only, take, a, real Pendekar's, 
little, finger, to, blow, you, away,


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## infinite beginner (Jun 17, 2011)

just, watching, the, imposter's how, they're, so, lame,
looking, now, like, their, moves, are, taken,
straight,  from , a, video, game,


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## infinite beginner (Jun 17, 2011)

lets, see, about, four, or, five, trained, random, practitioners, 
from, various, schools, attack, you, at, once, in, real, time, 
lets, see,how, well, you,can, earn, that, honored, if, not, sacred, 
title, publicly, now, that, you, have, bestowed, it, on, your, self,


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## infinite beginner (Jun 19, 2011)

back to what matters.the, way I see it ,techniques, are, too, long, 
and,they must be splintered , if we, are, able, to set up a standing
scissor, throw, we,are,set, up to take off anywhere from that structure,
instantaneously, as they, may, recognize, a, position, with a counter, 
we, want, that, in other words you set them up to,fall straight, back, on their back 
then, you, flow to,a strike,setting,up,an arm capture, break throw, we,
dont, lock in silat we always break the, point, is why pause for an instant,to, 
execute,a, particular technique, techniques are, lost, in the moment 
techniques,are, all,like, gears, engaged, to, be interchangeable, and, unending,
it,is really the transition being, neither, here nor there, between of the first 
and, second, technique, where, the,most,destruction,should,occur its,
always, best, to, keep, them, guessing, never, being, in, one, place, 
just, as, they, believe,they,are, being, locked, up we, let, them go, to 
knock, them ,out,


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## infinite beginner (Jul 10, 2011)

I'm here,thinking,my teacher,has said "the hands must be like water"
this can only mean, jurus not watered up, must then be watered down,


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## infinite beginner (Jul 18, 2011)

in silat, there is no strike too small or large, the jurus,only show the way to find the motions needed
to produce the technique,in application the art,is not,found in the jurus, the jurus are found in the 
higher understanding,of the art here, to know ten thousand,motions of the jurus is not enough and,being
an,internal art the guideline seems to be using full force but,no strength


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## infinite beginner (Aug 21, 2011)

so,yesterday,I,pick up a heavy,dumb bell in each hand,curl,one,side,then,the,other,forgeting that I struck my funny bone earlier this week
no strengh but I forced,a,curl or two channeling,all,the,strengh,from,my,shoulder and back couple hours later fell,asleep on,the couch,
I,woke,up,I thought my,lung,was,going,to,bust feeling,pain,from,my,gut,to,my,chest,this,lasted,keeping,me,awake,     half the night 
after,tons,of,stretching,it subsided enough,to, sleep so, I go down to the farmers market for a massage,a,lady has a table there 
 she pin points its my back,that is knotted causing the right,side,chest pain,no sooner I lay  down up comes this guy ranting at her she 
sold him the wrong oil ,last week he wants a 4.00  refund,she says she doesnt give refunds but she will make an exchange next week. 
he doubles his rant at her upon, hearing that ,so face down on the table finally I say ,some people are just f,ing crazy, now he is yelling
swearing,at me  from,across,the counter,for butting in, finally I looked up and told him I paid money for a massage he,is taking away from my time 
so he yells he paid money too,now I hear different voices confronting,him,and,he is inviting every into the parking lot,he wants to fight,
now he is justifying his rage saying I provoked,him,by,saying some people are crazy,which only makes him sound crazier,
 then,I,guess,security was called and he left young,stocky guy with a strange,square beard cut undoutably modeled after his
favorite ultimate fighter, but the massage lady,also,a,martial,artist,some kind of kick boxing who,knows,I,do martial,arts because I go to her 
beat,up, after seminars, said,something,that I,was glad to hear ,she said you stay so relaxed ,she would know,and she,asked,is that part of your training ?
and I thought is it ever ,without that,there,is nothing,being,relaxed,is,what,makes all,the,counters,possible,it,opens,the breathing gives
quickness,to,motion,and,allows,strikes,to crack like a whip upon impact,so,now at the market I,figuire I might, have to watch ,my back,
but that,is also built into the training,so,the massage lady told me she was proud of me and gave me extra time,chilvary,has its rewards when its not doing us in,


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## infinite beginner (Aug 23, 2011)

So,its like when your past forty,there is no time for sport, of fighting,you,have bridge work and enough injuries that wont heal
you,have,to,think kill or be killed,and,there are no rules,like on the suppranoes,you use anything and every way to destroy the guy,who,wants,to,fight,
If,I spit in that furious,guys left eye  as I  hit him in, the right eye, with an an incense,candle,jar,and,timed his lunge,to,kick him in the nuts,as
,he charged,that would be a  clean victory,also,leaving him unconscious so,he can't pull out his gun and shoot as you flee,the,scene, thats silat,


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## infinite beginner (Aug 31, 2011)

I,remember,this punk fighter that lived in the neighborhood,kind of a small wiry guy ,who would go to parties and 
start trouble with guys twice his size ,almost the same thing every time,he,would appologize,saying,he,didnt,want,to,fight,
and,the,guy,would,finally,turn,around,only,to,wake,up in,the,emergency room,he knew,one,thing well,this,guy,was a master,
of,throwing his,coat,over,their head,wrenching their neck with it and pulling them down so the back of their head hit the ground,
then he,would just,keep hitting,their head on the street,with the coat over their face, till they were out never knowing what hit 
them and,the one thing about, silat is there never were any rules later, I saw  the same principle applied thru use of a sarong, silat
 even has that built into it, of course the moral is never turn your back


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## infinite beginner (Sep 3, 2011)

It's interesting how many training tools  are hidden in plain sight inside the jurus  
often one point strikes another, say elbow and hand ,all the machanics,head to toe
 how ever used goes into the delivery behind the  force of the srtike ,you can strike your hand with
one component  involved or by  spliting the timing all the compounding components,
  how  this can be so, intricately fine tuned ,through the hands sense of sensitivity,of the strike


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## Jimi (Sep 13, 2011)

I Know What I Know If You Know What I Mean, lol, 

Hi Infinite Hope all is well, all is well that ends well, ...well?


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## infinite beginner (Oct 9, 2011)

I would say, the jurus repetition,ingrains an,intuitive ambiance
behind and around the techniques. theres a million ways to 
answer any strike and from that first connection ,the jurus 
flow will automatically,dictate where to go. that is the best
thing about it, the options in mixing the motions thru an
understanding of the loaded possibilities, no,matter where
you are or where your hands find themselves  your always
standing within reference  to some  jurus structure,
its really fighting by split second association,


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## infinite beginner (Nov 24, 2011)

happy turkey day aside, I recall my teacher ,when I first saw him doing his jurus 
he made this long,strange really,grim vicious face tightning all the muscles and sticking his
chin out like it was a third elbow .later I realized what he was doing was weaponizing,
his face however he could,and in silat the chin is a very valid weapon,  everything from helping
to pin a limb to breaking small bones.


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## infinite beginner (Jan 7, 2012)

as all techniques are dangerous,or,deadly, without the skills, and understandings, how to execute them.just a thought


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## infinite beginner (Feb 21, 2012)

after unlocking the jurus you have the keys to understanding all motions

we don't  keep doing the jurus thousands of times only to learn how to hit 

the real skills lie in the sensitivity and timing for offensive trapping and countering.


we can not take control unless,we first have the patients to allow them to lose it 
as each strike needs to have and create a new time slot.


Like a carpenter after,mastering the tool might know thirty uses for his claw hammer

the jurus might give us thirty claws and thirty hammers


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## burleighgirly (Apr 14, 2012)

Silat chose me, it's my husband's martial art. I practice Silat Perisai Diri, and enjoy the mental, physical and spiritual challenges it presents. I love the nine different styles (asli), the large variety of strikes, blocks, kicks and footwork, and the theory behind moving to attack or avoid. I enjoy our sparring method, Serang Hindar, where you strike to your opponent, who avoids - this can get quite intense! I also enjoy all the training methods: rungkaian, face to face, beladiri, weapons work... each class is different and challenging. I love Silat - but that said, I've never trained another martial art.


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## destructautomaton (Apr 18, 2012)

Silat is very interesting to me I only recently was introduced to it by a friend who was kind to teach and explain it as it was the malay form of it.  In my scan of the internent i came across a post from antonio graceffo, since has been discussed on the forums. i found this to be way off base and very mean--------
- I am so fed up with Malay martial arts, my best advice about silat at this point is, go learn a real martial art. I have never seen so many fat, smoking, unfit, un-fighting, people in one room as i did in any silat event I ever attended. I have tried to support all sorts of traditional martial arts, but now that i am fighting again, my real opinions are coming out. if you are fat or a smoker, or if you want to practice ridiculous moves and then claim you can beat real fighters, silat is a perfect martial art for you.-


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## burleighgirly (Apr 20, 2012)

destructautomaton said:


> I am so fed up with Malay martial arts, my best advice about silat at this point is, go learn a real martial art. I have never seen so many fat, smoking, unfit, un-fighting, people in one room as i did in any silat event I ever attended. I have tried to support all sorts of traditional martial arts, but now that i am fighting again, my real opinions are coming out. if you are fat or a smoker, or if you want to practice ridiculous moves and then claim you can beat real fighters, silat is a perfect martial art for you.-



I don't think I've ever seen a fat, smoking, unfit, unfighting person in my art. It's way too demanding, and fitness is integral. If you didn't have a passion for it, you wouldn't do it. Of course, with the term 'silat' covering martial arts form Malaysia and Indonesia - over 250 million people - it's not unlikely that different silats are highly varied. Still, I think that a fat, smoking, unfit, unfighting person who does martial arts is probably better off than one that doesn't.  And I'd like to think our art doesn't discriminate on the basis of fitness, smoker, or willingness to actively engage in combat. 

Regarding the ridiculous moves, well beauty is in the eye of the beholder. There are a couple of moves in my art that I don't love (but plenty that I do), and my husband thinks they are among the most effective. Still, I'd never criticise another martial art, unless I'd practiced it for over five years. Since by that time, you've probably had enough experience to know a thing or two. But even then, I'd be carefully bearing in mind that different martial arts attract and are suited to different people. 

I'm not sure of the significance of the person who made the quote?. 

Peace.


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## destructautomaton (Apr 25, 2012)

the person posts a ton of articles online and said he was promoting silat in malaysia then he sort of bodyslammed the art
he sort of exploited the art to promote himself then made those comments
i enjoy silat and look forward to looking into it more in the future


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## infinite beginner (Apr 28, 2012)

If they don't go right for the kill its probably,not,silat,

if most,of the students haven't been around over ten years its probably,not silat,

If the training is not rediculously tedious dull and,kept,dangerous,it won't be easy later to throw people around like magic, 

as in silat the finished product is everything few have the fore thought and patience

to,take on an art the can't expect themselves use until they have conformed their,physique to its yoga 

like structures and their automatic,resposes to flows, put together thru their journey thru the jurus.

and If they tell you its not riding on 99% repetition of the entry its garbage,


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## infinite beginner (Apr 29, 2012)

and when they say, its all in the wrist they might,have silat on their mind or 

up their sleeve.silat is anthropological it involves somehow  getting close to 

the source,of a distant ancient island art ,the journey to even  locate a  beginning  

may well take up to a  life times quest.we see techniques lifted bunched and sold

 like souvenirs but thats something different


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## infinite beginner (Aug 13, 2012)

When a whip is cracked,or here a sarong, that's the exact timing for exploding tension behind a strike.

when someone can leave,a good,welt with their sarong, odds are they might  have a good whipping punch, 

as the sarong to silat, is least of all a garmet.


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## infinite beginner (Sep 26, 2012)

silat is a good meditation of motions, the jurus are an open book,

they are not for speed readers.most speed,and strengh notions 

are built in obstacles and adversaries. anyone can be mighty or 

speedy.some  don't even try and are just naturally born faster 

or stronger,how fast does a car go ,it always depends,on the

 twists in the terrain,its like we first  come to silat all muscles and speed,

and our hundredpercent equals exactly zero,and we add from there.

and it might take a lifetime to get back our strengh and speed


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## infinite beginner (Oct 1, 2012)

Speed is bad ,Speed kills,Speed is all the Power without the Control.


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## infinite beginner (Nov 3, 2012)

there just  is no time for speed, the time it takes to make a fist ,that's a punch

its pure accuracy is what beginners miss,we see an arm we go,to,it, grab it fast

perform a throw,where our teacher's will always,make,their arm fall easily into

 their grasp as the start of the flow of the throw,eliminating that need for speed.

 effects take time,that can not be rushed, just like in boxing if you were to  sock

 someonein the bread basket it takes time, for them to double over, and present

 their chin.


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## burleighgirly (Nov 10, 2012)

You're going to wait for them to present their chin, IB? 

I might have missed it, what style of silat do you practice?


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## Zenjael (Nov 12, 2012)

infinite beginner said:


> Is it not impossible to proficiently practice many and yet retain claim to mastery of one



The only thing which is impossible in the martial arts, truly, is that limit which you set for yourself. Just saying.


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## infinite beginner (Nov 18, 2012)

yes it is our practice to reverse the impossible whenever possible,but common sense tells us  if ones kidney say 

were to go bad would it  not be best to see a surgeon who specializes,in just kidneys,would it not be best to

trust ones life to someone,who,devotes their focus to just kidneys, and doesn't dabble in spleens,livers,or,

colons.And are we not also in a way trusting our lives to the street validity of the skills our teachers share and entrust

in us.


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## infinite beginner (Nov 18, 2012)

And yes it all takes time  fighting takes time,you,can even see,the physics when moe times the eye poke perfectly,with the 
inverted hammer fist to the gut as curley is stooping forward ,Its a formula I guess a strike to the  ribs,will,arch 
someone sideways as a,strike,down to the hip can,double someone,over,faster than any hit to the bread basket can
that is to say,If you can have a chin flying 90 miles an hour some where  its all up to ones skill,of placement and 
timing to meet that with something else going 90 imiles an hour for double impact, ideally speaking.of course in silat they
might prefer to have the hand behind the head too for sandwiching impact to the tenth power,


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## infinite beginner (Jan 14, 2013)

funny thing silat shows the widest motions imaginable in the dance 

and we see  so many clips of  practioners who carry them over into their demos of

 applications lunging in with long sweeping arm motions ,they forget 

to always use the closest weapon  to the closest target, to bring the 

other targets closer,we see experts doing this we shake our heads 

in amazement ,thinking where did they come up with that ,as we look 

for open  targets they are already hitting some thing with something ,

doesn't matter whatever is in front of them its like a gift ,knowing to go 

for any head hunting is to by pass and ignore a hundred vulnerable targets

its the art of launching obscure awkward short strikes from any position

and drawing on the hands and machanics to form the right weapon for the 

time and place


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## mmhafiz (Jan 21, 2013)

interesting topic here.

i live in Malaysia. There are so many silat styles here. basically some of them are from the same founder/principle.
i practice Silat Cekak Ustaz Hanafi, whereby the gerak/jurus are based on the 4 basic movements of Muslim during prayer. this particular silat i practice is straight forward if i may say so. it has no 'bunga' or 'tari' where you can find them in silat gayong and other silat styles. it it also the main attraction why i prefer this silat style compared to others.

Silat Cekak (in general) has its own compatible weapon (or should i say, official weapon) that goes with it's movement, which is Parang Lading. the Parang Lading is chosen instead of other weapons because of the basic principle of the silat cekak itself, which is 99% defence and 1% attack...this is because the founder of silat himself didnt want to be much offensive. he prefered to wait for the attack, rather than attacking. If you watch the video on youtube, you can see how we hold the Parang Lading, hence the 99% defensive. 

if you learn the silat, you'll notice, all the gerak/jurus/strike are only activated once the attacker's punch/kick reach the body of the pesilat. we are trained to respond to the strike, much more than striking towards the opponent.

although it is 99% defensive silat style, that doesnt mean there is no striking gerak/jurus at all. 

what i love about silat (generally) is the movements really make sense. and also the strike targets the vital points of human body. like Silat Cekak, we have 'kunci' or locks so that you can interogate the attacker once he's locked or one-finish movement...

i also plan to study other silat styles like Silat Kuntau Selendang Merah (which is very popular during Communist Rebellion in early Indepence of Malaysia, you all should learn the history of this silat), Silat Lian Padukan and Silat Gayong (because i love the Karambit play)...


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## infinite beginner (Mar 6, 2013)

so much of silat is close in fighting, to get to be able to use it ,it has like a built in bar to hurdle 

and that means getting past everything the attacking opponent knows to close the distance into

 ideal knee elbow etc range, I  see my teacher ,moving people effortlessly, into the most  

devastating  sweeps throws falls and having hands free to keep striking,and  I say bottom line

I just  want to do learn do what he is doing , and what ever styles he has under his belt 

to now move a certain way is really back ground and his not mine ,we know no one is ever finished with 

martial arts learning, but a teacher has to represent to an extent for their studentsa finished product of skill level 

every art has its cirriculum everyone goes thru but of the many only a few rise to be great fighters or 

teachers or even rarer but ideally both,It is always their art plus their skills ,one persons skills to make an art

 work may not mirror anothers much in any way though they were exposed  to the same training,

so in a sense, for any art, it is the teacher before but never above the art as the art is  left for dead without 

the great teachers


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## infinite beginner (Apr 20, 2013)

I don't know, but a moment seems to fill a substantial amount of time with the jurus in particular an elbow, slash and an uppercut can easily fit into one beat on the surface, but the jurus are head to toe motions so maybe a dozen actual motions can be produced in a moments time  motions that are hard to notice but are there to back up the mechanic's of the strikes, like first I used to think there was x amount of motions in jurus one then y amount then z amount now I could not tell you , of even the simplest one


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## infinite beginner (May 21, 2013)

silat is so much infighting, using so many very small precise motions, someone would almost have to be a fool to call themselves a serious practitioner, and not be able to be subtly training something or another in nearly all their spare time, and I air this, as more a rhetorical reminder than I'd care to admit


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## RZaeem (May 26, 2013)

Like mmhafiz, I also learn Silat Cekak Ustaz Hanafi


In this silat
- there is 21 buah, no bunga, no tari
- only one stance, the neutral stance where the pesilat just stand up straight and waits for attacks. 
- no sidestepping to dodge. all buahs are done in a way you can advance forward. no backing off. hence very effective in tight spaces e.g. corridors, aeroplane, ship,
- parrying techniques based on salaah (muslim prayer). The kaedah A, B, C, D based on Du'a, Qiam, Ruku', and Takbeer respectively.

- from the parrying techniques it extends into 20 different buah
- learning the buahs has 3 stage - Peringkat Asas (Basic), Jatuh (Takedown), Potong (Recounter - countering if your opponent attacked with a silat cekak's buah).
- the nature of silat is defensive, most of the time you wait to be attacked and _simultaneously _parry and execute your buah._ "*cekak menyerang*, *cekak* menangkap"_
- since it's defensive silat basically there's no sparring (since neither side will attack)

- if in real fight you desperately need to attack, use buah number 21, Buah Serang, which will sure-hit the opponent even if blocked or dodged (unless the opponent also practice Silat Cekak, he knows how to counter)  _&#8220;Jika elak pasti kena, dan jika tepis pasti dimakannya."_
- to learn this silat you must be a muslim. 



The good thing about this silat style is its simplicity and effectiveness, also the training duration is quite short, that is 6-8 months, with two 2-hour session a week (4 hours per week),
This silat greatly emphasizes using attacker's momentum to counter and clever use of leverage. Many takedowns and locks are done with simple push to back of knees.

After you finish the 21 buah syllabus, there is Peringkat Umum (General Stage), where you are taught to defend against other martial arts e.g. other silats, Tae kwon do, Judo, Tomoi (a muay thai-like art), etc.
Also defense against weapons (knives, katana, sticks, etc), ground fighting are taught here.


http://psscutmjb.tripod.com/sistem.htm


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## tiga (May 29, 2013)

Training is 6-8 months with 4 hours per week?? How much can you learn in such a short period? Or do you mean you learn the whole syllabus is learned in this period and from there the actual training starts?


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## RZaeem (May 29, 2013)

yes it is 4 hours per week. the syllabus itself is quite short compared to other silats.

6-8 months from start to finish for learning all buahs. Then basically you're done.
after that there's optional additional training


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## tiga (May 30, 2013)

RZaeem said:


> yes it is 4 hours per week. the syllabus itself is quite short compared to other silats.
> 
> 6-8 months from start to finish for learning all buahs. Then basically you're done.
> after that there's optional additional training



I assume that that is just the beginning of the journey. Most people with only that amount of training are not skilled yet. Is there any curriculum or specific training to enhance your abilities afterwards or is that just up to the practitioner himself?


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## infinite beginner (Jul 27, 2013)

there's some great silat on the web 
I like to freeze the frame in different
 places and just ponder the counters  
and then some silat looks great, at first
though done in a few seconds, as they 
enter, and shift from position to position,
but the real visual efficiency of their moves
shows through ,when stopped in all their tracks. 

as we would be free flowing through techniques  when
 he saw what we were doing was using too much 
motion , my teacher would often say what's the other hand 
doing taking a vacation ?


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## tiga (Aug 1, 2013)

infinite beginner said:


> there's some great silat on the web
> I like to freeze the frame in different
> places and just ponder the counters
> and then some silat looks great, at first
> ...



Although I agree, i do think that movies on the web can be misleading. For instance, filming a training or seminar, an instructor is explaining while showing applications. This changes the sharpness in the movement since you are also busy with looking at other people and talking.


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## infinite beginner (Aug 30, 2013)

as the whole body is weaponized the whole body is targeted 

in silat don't we strike as a rule strike the closest target with the 

closest weapon at hand be that hand a knee a foot if our jurus 

teach us to destroy anything that comes within our close comfort zone 

and if a strike is already in motion, ,they are first presenting us in our 

opinion, either a weapon or a target its both but why let all those close

 up smashing juru motions sit on the shelf when the counter is more a bad

attitude to demolish more than deflect their extending weapon that's why 

in silat we have joint offensive bone breaking blocking.  a punch is a fist


but there's only a few surfaces that aren't fragile and the thumb is never safe


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## infinite beginner (Oct 12, 2013)

They say, if a burglar wants to break into your house

 bad enough, there is no stopping them. and once inside, so 

goes certain strategies of striking, that is, to see on the 

opponent, particular points of interest, then being 

bound and determined, to hit those body shot spots

eventually if not initially,  whether they are open or 

not, if they might suddenly put up something obstruct 

the path so what, that gets smashed as anything put between

the target is also the target , the jurus have us waving flailing 

flapping every direction under the sun in a flow ,but breaking

 it all down, each small motion, has its beginning middle and end 

and knowing our jurus means from all the in between points,

no position can ever feel to awkward to not produce,from all angles 

very powerful short strikes, . the jurus  are also there to teach how to 

empower the structure from most any location or position ,take the late great 

joe lewis his amazing backhand side kick, was like his jurus, meaning he

worked these moves millions of times, till he could throw a full blast side kick 

at one target, see at the last moment, it was going to be blocked or evaded   

and shift redirecting his full impact accordingly so it came from out of nowhere ,

we can't do that ,he found a good thing that perfectly suited his structure and 

with about eight hours a day training it, brought it to perfection ,never seen  

his sidekick had a beginning middle and end, but it also had allot of unseen 

in be tweens,


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## infinite beginner (Oct 17, 2013)

silat is so deep cultural and traditional, a decade will only get your feet wet 
in the overall understandings, but as a result of playing one and only form of
silat for a while, I look at all the hundreds of silat styles shared silat I see 
and I say yeah that looks kind of familiar and some of it real familiar 
thinking we do that exact same whatever ,a little different principles 
of course, but the forms and structures, are always, crisscrossing stepping 
and blending , 

earlier I mentioned I found it interesting to watch the posted
videos sometimes, frame by frame, for educational purposes but for 
entertainment its full speed all the way,  and so many now far too many 
to watch ,some may just play for the camera what they show but some are 
nothing less than awe striking in their abilities, I  guess the new point could
be the threads of similarity, are so similar, as far as the tools universally 
incorporated into the forms , particularly all the crouched, twisted, side 
stepping and extending, of the arm out allot ,all of which are done with good 
reason or reasons ,that convert odd postures into spring loaded balance 
smashing leverage machines,

  but to see the players out in the jungles 
swinging their live blades, that they know, so well, inches from each other 
while executing takedown  techniques in real time, now that's some real 
focused high intensity playing with danger training, by any standard   
so ,no matter the style we can only be as realistically good at it ultimately as the 
intensity in which we train,  do we often feed a punch to our partner like 
they are our sworn enemy determined to take our life


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## Brian R. VanCise (Oct 17, 2013)

Love Maul Mornie's SSBD material.

Check out a recent post on:

The Instinctive Edge


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## infinite beginner (Oct 20, 2013)

It  seems to me that the short strikes are the real gold in the art 
where the limb doesn't travel very far, but its all in the structures 
and also I watched allot of little street fights on the web today

and occurs to me, they don't feed correctly, ,everyone knows
 they are supposed to corkscrew punch exactly chin level lunging  in 
deep with the same foot , but those who didn't get the memo just
seemed to run all goofy stepped behind their fists, thinking look at

 all the football fields full of techniques silat teaches ,and then how all these
wrong punchers running in so fast behind their fist numb to common sense 
leaving no time for our technique cause we are left too busy trying to correct
the attackers sloppy entry mistakes for this reason most full motions are almost obsolete, 
if we open a non contact fighting school ,who would train ,point being there's theory but comprehensive application of "technique" can't happen until there is connection 
besides we have no want to go be having to apply "techniques" in real situations 
or techniques are like the spoils in a piñata but you gotta first break the piñata if 
a fist is flying in we have two choices get hit or hit and we don't want to get hit of course there is blocking, but its just never by choice


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## infinite beginner (Oct 22, 2013)

I could be wrong, but the traditional players, seem to all have the fighting music 
in their training where one might develop around the other more but I'm not 
sure which order,that is who is most entranced, as everyone moves to the rhythms   
broken tempos as if the drums were leading the practitioners every movement  

this maybe ingrains a patience in motion, that space of stillness between the drumbeats
is automatically incorporated into their motions, even if its two full notes and a sixteenth note pause between its still there, maybe the music is to split the instant ,I don't know what all is being missed practicing jurus with out that traditional playing ,I'm thinking its easy to find out too late it's put there to prevent and correct mistakes of movement along the path
of ingraining the art ,and that without the music could it be fairly compared to someone doing jazzercise without the jazz we know its crucial but how crucial and I'm sure the time signature of the music has to match the timing signature of the system I guess
what tops my topical concern here is, can training  jurus without the drums guidance  actually impair dilute delete and hurt the training in the irreversible sense of loading all those empty air repetitions without the traditional broken background timing provided by the martial musicians ,or rather to what detrimental degree its like if when you were a kid and a golden gloves champion showed you how to throw a jab and you threw thousands

till you were so proud, but then your dad is like ricky recardo knows everyone and Mohamed Ali come over and shows you his jab method, now you gotta unlearn and
 unload what the novice advice has ingrained


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## infinite beginner (Nov 22, 2013)

silat seems to me to be unique, in that all the less necessary 
moves are so wide  and long yet all the more necessary moves 
are short and tight . why all those huge flowery motions many 
must wonder , can't we just practice the fast close up combative 
snappy chops and bone breaks, its like saying, can't we just ride 
the unicycle from a tricycle before we even can put training wheels on 
a two wheeler, just like the bike provides the learning skills a trike can't
 produce,or in other words the smaller motions all derive  from  the
bigger motions, most silat I've seen prides itself on its point blank 
explosiveness  its like picking up a blank  yard stick and then slowly
 the smallest increments of measurements begin to appear , also its 
 simple  physics, like if one wishes to have faster low kicks one practices 
high kicking, in the big motions there is obvious natural power, that the littler 
motions bring in develop and recreate through  refining and fine tuning 
body mechanics


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## infinite beginner (Dec 2, 2013)

Its like if someone is new to the game of pool ,its all they 
can do to pocket the designated number they aim for, but
the real game within the game, is the placement of the cue
 ball in relation to the next shot , like hitting the target is just
 the beginning the bigger solution is in the set up, obviously 
we strike high science tells us upon connection the target
 goes back ,until they have closed in why would anyone then 
ever seek to aim two hits high in there practice , how can one 
charge in with full force and run their opponent down, unless 
they know where they will be ,throws, locks, and sweeps, are 
fun to execute,  like they are front and center, when in reality 
the strikes are, dare I say ninety percent of the game, but 
we can't palm chins chop throats and crack ribs with elbows 
in practice , so in class we use techniques to take them down 
and they have to take our word , some where in between  we
tore off an ear, buried a thumb in the eye , or pulled their 
head smack into our terrifying flying guillotine elbow, but the 
techniques are so challenging taking forever to pull off, in just 
the right  flow, getting inside their energy, and redirecting their force 
at just the right degree of angle so that its effortless. 
nothing can be more excruciatingly difficult, than applying
 an effortless maneuver on a skilled  less than fully cooperative
 subject .but yet why the teachers  have  no problem , because 
they are pounding out and throughout the technique , they are
never busy reaching for a limb to twist lock, bar or throw 
no they are manipulating them into these positions with
a series of strikes , that even the greatest techniques can
be seen as only hollow skeletons without,


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## infinite beginner (Feb 9, 2014)

isn't martial arts, really all about secrecy and selling mystery  who can say they know a system, handed down from one to the next , as if it were a textbook no its more like,  only the  foundation, and the framework, might survive the transition, 
because knowing a system, is exactly like knowing a particular  alphabet, in the sense that a-z represents all the teachers material,  techniques, curriculum, etc. you can have all the material,  or you can
 own it , as angelo dundee had all of ali's material ,but it was by comparison  nothing  in his hands ,when students start an art ,all their uniforms, are alike  as they all just have a pile of worthless rags on their backs , that can't by all its contents collective represent the system, in the slightest , while some wear those  baggy rags indefinitely  others uniforms start to fit better as they begin to fill them out with better skills , see the image implied to hypothetically apply  is any dam system or darn art  has to be custom tailored to fit and suit  each individual ,so they can make the most of the material in terms of their
motion ,all the material but not its value can be transferred over to a student  the whole value has to be instilled , that's why no one can learn anything  but the most basic value of material from watching any advanced videos, or distant trainings unless its throwing some light on a path they are already far enough along  but its only still worth pennies on the dollar from affording a 
customized and expert  tailor ingrained to fit uniform ,and the ones at the end of the day whose  personalized suits best fits the system most keep the style alive ,odds are the truth is any one teaching an art did not refine their developed skills in a class setting but through long intensive study and training under their teacher on a one to one basis so they can not convey much of what they know except in the same way


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## infinite beginner (Feb 9, 2014)

once I asked my teacher how far he was thinking ahead in what he does ,his reply about six moves and I thought man that's really advanced how can he do that ,but now I realize it anything but its just common sense to expect every form of available counter and by looking deep into the action reaction possibilities as part of visualization or imagination  training ,knowing already our idea out the gate is to limit the choices of response the other  has by our initial angle positioning and striking strategies it not so far fetched  to say I do one thing what can they do each time, how does this attack set them up in silat do we want to waste extra  time blocking ,no , we'd rather the other to waste time  blocking ,if we can clean hit through fine,  but the next best thing is if we can get them  to divert their focus balance and energies to be off blocking something , thus potentially optimally  we can create their first mistake , asking how can we use all their defenses to our advantage  and always control the flow of momentum in the exchange and we know if we do block their  strike going back is just as dangerous as it was going out


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## infinite beginner (Feb 23, 2014)

It seems like any time of the day you can put together new jurus patterns
or better yet you can't help but do this ,I think you first drill the jurus 
exactly as they are shown, then through sheer repetition you perfect 
each motion ,then when this accomplished you take a step back and
you take with you a great sense of what feels right, in the big picture 
you can't go to tie your shoe with out referencing three jurus , cause
in the beginning you float through the jurus but you aren't rooted in 
any of the motions , then as the the jurus expose you to contorting your 
structure in every inconvenient manner possible ,until lunging forward 
kicking sideways dropping to your knee rolling doing a three sixty 
with a low back sweep in the middle and unwinding with a high crescent kick 
all in a few moments feels comfortable and run of the mill, so you slowly become
 a composer of structure , you ingrain the specific principles and physics ,and then
 you are a jurus factory, maybe the greatest thing the jurus teach is how to create


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## tiga (Feb 24, 2014)

Hi Infinite_beginner,

It sounds like you are doing Bukti Negara? 
Am I right? Where do you train?

Greets,
Tiga


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## infinite beginner (Mar 28, 2014)

Isn't  "silat" fun , it looks like no other art ,but always looks like itself  we see another style ,sooner or later ,we're like, there went my jurus  and we do this that and the other too , only our way we do that before this if and only if they do the other ,I don't know maybe cause its all from the slippery tiger infested  tropical jungles , it has to look the  same to a degree, but all styles are, is collections, of discovered principles  that they are all bound by, the principles never change only their depths of understandings vary, trillions of punches have been swung out and countered  back now for millions of years, when you get to the core understanding of most any art you see so much around it is just window dressing , the please or appease the market place made up grossly of non fighter types who want to learn how to fight, by ingraining an arsenal of swift textbook true and tried deadly maneuvers,into their reflexes ,then around the edges there are the fighters who train to be better fighters, be they bully types or defenders  of good , but the two cross paths and train together , one may have had  dozens near to deadly street fights, the other every conflict they've ever had ended in shouting match at worst the difference between the two students revolves more the mentality over physicality, one is primed to use what they learn right now ,even anxious, to put it bluntly one is slightly or more crazier than the other out the gate, less fearful of themselves about jumping into confront the physical conflict or danger, in other words all the best techniques without the right mentality are diminished to worthless ,


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## infinite beginner (Mar 28, 2014)

of course these are examples of the extremes its a given there's every type in between , some will fight at the drop of a hat for others it may take  something lighter , if the teacher is a street experienced fighter they can do their best to ingrain that reality into the student, as a crucial part of their curriculum so the moral of the story If you don't fight much like most don't take martial arts from someone who isn't a bit crazy,or not short fused , is too agreeable this may be a sign they don't have an aggressive enough past history of punching out lots of loudmouths over petty conflicts ,if you want a street seasoned teacher it may be hard to find one who isn't or can't be a bit of an a hole


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## infinite beginner (Mar 30, 2014)

the teacher would often speak of the utilization of imagination 
too much too late it seems is better than too much too soon,
after some major understandings are absorbed it can only serve
to enhance all practice, that is once one knows, what to imagine
 inside the guidelines, set by the principles ,not off in a fictional 
sense but in the most practical and realistic way imaginable, you 
don't have be chuck norris about it striking down biker gangs with
 one chop, thats for dreams after bad seafood , but meticulously 
grasping the smallest particulars in every profession is what separates,
the novice from the expert, not that the the untrained eye doesn't see
everything, it just overlooks where to focus,like we would all prefer to
 just get in and drive a formula race car not having to know how exactly
 all its components are construed to contrive that high performance, just
 to sit behind the wheel ,maybe its true for racing as the drivers all have 
to have mad subtle invisible skills but silat has its own nuts  and some
 bolts , holding it to high performance and the driver is the vehicle,and not
 speed but accuracy is what marks the target of its perfection


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## infinite beginner (Apr 29, 2014)

so I used to come here to make monologues of encoded crib notes
 after a class.Is that wrong, onward and upwards or downward 
and backwards as it may be, We know you gotta flow common 
term in kali silat jkd, probably a fair share of gringos and those 
of the americas got there intro to silat through jkd, right after 
losing up all hopes upon becoming the next bruce lee , But
back to the crucial concept of the flow, or striking in combination 
or trying to see into the future , because that is exactly what it is,  
if some one has a preconceived plan of executing techniques xyz
out the gate they are lost , to the range of possibilities facing them 
yet its required to always strike in combination, this requires making 
split second yet seamless adjustments to every motion,ideally so the
 opponent is going to make a choice but they don't know it but they will 
get some unwanted assistance in their decision in other words the mark
of a good teacher seams to be a dual commitment random scenario whether
 they are going to say  chop the throat when their elbow is obstructed or they 
are going fire their elbow out when the chop gets blocked ,they sit on a fence ,
they are actually striking with both so close together on a hair pin trigger 
combination is to instantaneously change course all depending on wtf they do
 to counter , If luck is such they dont counter what do you need all those fancy
practiced combos's for you got the first solid gold strike unless your vastly out
 classed with any training at all you won,well almost,an expert versus the 
unpredictable beginner student may feed a strike anyone can block ,its when 
they do that their troubles begin to accumulate fast ,its like putting a golf ball 
on a tee before you really swing through.what goes through their mind is I will
block this strike and then hit ,but they get that with their block they are already 
a beat behind in the battle, and they are already hit, with a ricochet or another
 strike right behind the first


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## infinite beginner (Apr 29, 2014)

my editing timed out, but the irony is that they may 
well see their block as an opportunity knocking, ideally 
that is what they should believe , but what that does 
is gather up, and focus all their energy on one task and 
location, they were thinking feint left fake high eye gouge 
right groin strike side knee tackle etc now flashing in their
mind they are thinking I've blocked, good so I'm ready
 to hit not realizing they are a beat behind in the battle,
and in the space of that thought they have already been
 hit ,by a ricochet or a spring loaded strike from the other 
side .like an expert may feed an unpredictable beginning
 student a strike anyone can block ,but when they do their 
troubles begin to accumulate fast ,its akin to placing a ball
 on a tee before swinging through,so silat utilizes alot of 
blocking in its strategy,speaking of the opponents blocking
so how can we always  flow if who we are up against we never 
can know might be we're up against some deranged
 master poe,perfectly countering and catching all the strikes we 
throw, thats why in watching silat jurus practice its not just hit 
hit hit like tough man competition shadow boxing its more 
geometrical give and take with countering blended into the 
motions ,to practice throwing three strikes without adding
any countering motions is just stupid, to go around throwing
 two without is probably from what Ive seen, not even silat


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## infinite beginner (May 4, 2014)

When walking along,some seen accelerates  into altercation somehow and now theres  a punch coming, do we meet and greet that offense with a cheery class setting  playful response, no, we draw on our  fierce attitude, for our life preserving  counter, cause it pays to have a bad  attitude switch to flick on and off when actually training , and not all I'll hit you now you come at me,no for that one  second ofuk here comes a deadly strike    whether its executed slow fast or full force  shouldn't affect the attitude. at the point of activation, attitude converts into a force of focus , for a second all respect goes out  the window with the strike coming in,or not depending how seriously one wants to make it or take it in play of practice,its like getting very almost angry but still fully relaxed it should be a subtle thing.


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## Reedone816 (May 4, 2014)

Mind set, you make the opponent forget; forget to defend himself, so he can be subdued easily. Now how to make him forget, we can do three things:
Hurt him,
Shock him,
And yes believe or not the last one is make him laugh, i.e. by tickling him.
Those three thing will make your opponent forget thus lost his defenses and becomes vulnerable for you to execute your finishing move.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk


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## infinite beginner (Jul 22, 2014)

So I'm watching this schools free kun tau public seminar on youtube  practical instruction, techniques conveyed with good sense of humor ,comedic skills value can not be underestimated.  after a few minutes I took my zoom focus off the instructor, and just panned over  the participants ,At the same instant, I thought  probably allot of the types, that got picked on, and bullied all their lives .   the group was about ten mostly skinny women and a dozen or so of the  scrawniest and lankiest looking guys you could imagine with one short  very obese fellow, this one girl with these pipe stem arms in the back trying to do a hammer fist with the demonstration it only showed the  demonstration part, and you knew she couldn't generate enough power to knock out a goldfish , and the men didn't look much better ,and it all  just amounts to teaching these near helpless people how to be just a little  less helpless ,and thats like the best he do ,to show these weak and extra frail looking physiques  ,   some techniques and concepts , in the class that won't really empower them to any significant degree without a ton of practice , But thats not the point , which is they are the ones who need it most  where is the good teaching fighters how to fight better , there was a  handful of student assisting and they were all fairly big and tough looking  like most ma schools students look ,cause they have to be to hit the ground  constantly and take the punches ,theres exceptions , but if you were one of those  scrawny builds how apt are you to want to go join the average ma class full of physical jock types , some do step up  and come out on top but ,   I'm sure a ninety pound weakling or two squeaked into the marine core too , its kinda sad all that ma understanding is ,not enough catered to those who really need it , I guess cause it was a free seminar probably in hopes of drawing new students ,and these frail people just kinda fell in the door figuring they could survive one class  , been to a few and seen allot of ma schools most of the students ,are  not of natural frail body types ,since real martial arts doesn't need strength to learn principles ,they really should have classes where ,weaker and more frail people could train together ;like a weaklings only class ,after they acquire skills ,who knows,Not to say it's mostly average to big dumb guys that keep the lights on at the schools, but yeah ,allot of big dumb guys training to beat up bigger dumber guys. In silat we never just pull the arm ,we pull the spine ,its rough and any whiplash is bad  but there is a difference between a sedan and a mack truck , I trained with guys that could hardly fit through the door ,and you just always wanna say wtf are you here for,what are you a sadist , guys who just naturally almost take your arm off when they hit the focus gloves, under the same roof as a couple of those ,who you can't barely feel their force coming through and you almost want to say to them what are you doing here, what are you crazy? Later of course , when you really know what your doing, it does not matter , their size only their skill.A big part of silat skill is not being there ,knowing best and training ways how not to get hit ,


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## MattofSilat (Jul 24, 2014)

Although it's not related to the OP, I think your last statement is wrong.

In every martial art, maybe even including BJJ, size and strength are vital. I would say that technique is important, but there's no way the statement that 'size' (Weight, Strength, Height) doesn't matter is a true statement. I would like you to name one martial art in which Size 'does not matter', excluding BJJ as that wasn't the topic at hand and it was designed for this.

Besides, realistically, you'd struggle IRL knowing BJJ and no striking techniques.


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## Reedone816 (Jul 29, 2014)

Just want to response two the two posts above. Just imho though 
First is that every one has its mate in martial art, are you skinny, frail,fat,small, even difable can have the MA one fit for. What really need is a dedication, so I get your sentiment for a layman who think that they can attain munch in just a seminar or a training book/video. We can just hope for those people that seeing so much they don't know they are motivated to join MA school that fit with them.
As for the sweeping generalisation of athleticism and size is the most important part, I beg to differ. I used to think like that before I joined my new school, here strenght is a disadvantage. The more strenght you have, the stiffer your muscle is, the stiffer your muscle is the more it is insensitive to outside influence, thus easier to being manipulated.
And about size, the key is balance, once you lost your balance, no matter how big you are you'll still fall.
Of course in lower level those phisical advantage is exist, but the higher you climb, those things would be little to no factor.
Sent from my RM-943_apac_indonesia_207 using Tapatalk


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## infinite beginner (Jul 29, 2014)

before you walk into a school, say your looking to train  at a new place, are you thinking at all, about the height size, weight, of the instructor? the only thing that matters is what do they know,  and how skilled are they behind their knowledge, Okay say you get attacked by someone  twice your size and three times as strong ,are you gonna  say to them, they aren't the right size opponent, for you  no, all you have to compensate is your skill and that skill  better include, the knowledge of severely, off balancing that giant, upon first contact ,say if your at that high level of skill , for instance then size and strengh ,shouldn't be such a problem   All martial arts I ever heard of, say two things ,they use the   the opponents strength against them, and the off balance the opponent , two goals they all strive for in common some wisely put it higher up on the scale than others   but thats what its all about the art of off balancing your opponent , so many arts all trying to do the same thing from  their so many different systems and approaches ,   in the great battle for balance how does one off balance the opponent  let me rephrase what I said before forget all that sht bottom line is anyone who is with out balance is with out power, and with out defense. and for however big that window is , that they are kept off balance,they are going to receive one hundred  percent plus impact , of any strikes delivered upon them ,provided the one  striking has one hundred percent of their balance , allot of fighters can take  punches ,but no fighter can take being held off balance and what fighter can take being hit with a hundred percent power while being kept off balance ,the martial art that always takes away balance and once its taken  never lets them have it back  the fact is in the beginning , strengh and size is ridiculously important ,take two beg students ,the bigger stronger one will pose a problem for the smaller one if the choose to and its gonna continue to be a problem until the advance to a certain skill level  either by being too cooperative or too resistant ,htf are they supposed to flow through the material , yeah if your small and scrawny there might be another scrawny player or two there that day, but the point is if there isn't the they have a harder time time of it  isn't the material alone hard enough,to absorb  with out adding the having to rise to challenge part ,because  it takes a long time,and a near endless grasp of understanding  to become an expert, at the art of, no matter what it called , perpetually off balancing any opponent while perpetually keeping ones own balance full in check,or how can we understand our opponents balance weakness's with out first understanding our own,


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## Reedone816 (Jul 29, 2014)

^^ great explaination as always &#128076;
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## infinite beginner (Aug 9, 2014)

hey thanks I was worried for a moment I had an argument going  all martial arts is are complicated ,sometimes overboard bordering on  into mysticism ,too hard to grasp with out your enlightenment hat on  sold separately, funny though you don't see much of that mysticism in  the ring or making it to the octagons, chi becomes so great a power that rivals the infinite tao ,thats like mixing batmans and supermans  the way chi was explained to me is based more on edison less on esoteric, it has to grasped as a tangible thing or wrote off as mysticism the problem is its there,but since its invisible some claim it stretches to the moon others as far as just below the navel , and no more than  a technique of breathing ,that converts oxygen into more energy,  chi is air power, I was taught to breathe a certain way,one day    and my teacher,had me hold up a kicking shield to my chest  said, now stand there like you normally would  , and he punched  it ,about half force knocked me back some ,then he says now ,the  other way, did the same punch and It didn't move me or disrupt  my balance ,that was my first chi introduction, I'm like wow this works no leap of faith, its almost unbelievable, too easy with no effort  of belief ,obviously you have to be acutely focused to whats going on , that awareness of where to focus that energy plays as great part  as the breathing , its all simple as technique done right it just works,  can one maintain this focused calm composure under fire ? not unless  one has good skills and full confidence in them ,then maybe chi is a street practical tactic, the earlier you learn it the more years you have to potentially develop it but not just for fighting also for health because its no real advantage for a fighter until their physical skills  boarder on the mystical already, if your great it may make you extra great but if your only good don't think it will help you win over the  extra good, best to not let it get in the way of training until trained came on to talk about balance, and somehow ran into my chi rant  best thing might be learn how to fight well first then breathe chi all the time or just breathe chi all the time to be healthier ,


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## infinite beginner (Aug 10, 2014)

but back to chi ,as an electrical generator in more scientific terms, first and forever I thought all those u tube chi demos were phony , staged but if you notice its always with their own group, who are into the idea and are perfectly relaxed unthreatened  willingly with all the symptoms of being susceptible , again with the smallest  grain of salt , but its some great stunt work if nothing else , its chi  psychology,maybe and when the whole group converge raining strikes down  on the chi guy in the center , who wants to be the only one to accidentally  graze the chi master ,so the same time they might think they are trying to  strike them , they know they can't,  cause no one else can , so they are actually  try to strike and not strike them at the same time ,a skill they must practice  cause they badly want to be the chi master in the middle that no one will quite strike  they must practice this full force near contact striking and throwing allot  back  at their schools how else could they get so good at it , but maybe they believe  it or want to so much, it becomes an actual physical shield around the guy in their mind , so under certain circus like circumstances it might become more real   than otherwise , needles to say it won't work quite the same, with a typical  pack of hells angels at the bar, all trying to stomp them at the same time , chi is in simplest terms more like an extension of alertness controlled internally  easy to learn hard to master , everyone knows you have to use controlled anger  has there ever been a great boxer who stepped into the ring who wasn't a little     angry at the guy on the other side ,they used to say about tyson,  he went out,fighting like the guy stole something from him , problem is out of the laboratory setting  the sht hits the fan most of the chi goes out the window , along with everything else we've ever been taught, the whole chess board is thrown in our face ,like can you train to swat a fly that lands on you ,flies are fast and unpredictable ,there are no techniques  maybe hope to intercept their trajectory, but its a direct line and focus to the target  knowing there might be a window of a tenth of a second ,a fly could probably get in  plenty of wing flaps in this period of time that seems short to us , so for us to say if the fly does this them I will counter with that , is a waste of time , and to say if an opponent  throws a strike you can answer with combinations you train ,they won't work on a fly but you think ,they will on someone who is skilled , the jurus occupy and cover allot of airspace by always putting something out there, between you and the opponent , a motion practiced at the hip might be suddenly adjusted to a collarbone level hit off the parry , who knows what  the other will do ,no one ,some they say oh hold your hands out in front of you with speaking  gestures so you are just a flinch away from striking or blocking , true maybe you are in position to tell  them you will fake high giving em what they expect ,almost and then strike low ,its inviting low kicks and if hands are at sides its inviting high strikes , to face  a much farther and smaller target than is a kick to the ankle shin calf knee inner and out thigh groin hip socket etc, in silat they  seem to automatically take as much of that out with the stepping into technique while closing into hand range ,you never would just go to lock an arm with out throwing in a low knee to the leg or adding foot stomp , that leads to a sweep ,or opens the way some step through throw , that you weren't even particularly looking for ,


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## tiga (Aug 11, 2014)

Infinite beginner, although i value your articles, it might help if you make some normal sentences. Break the text up in paragraphes, add some spaces. Although it should be about content, your formatting of your articles get in the way and even prevent me of reading it.

With a little bit of spacing, you might get a bigger audience that actually reads your stuff.


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## Reedone816 (Aug 13, 2014)

It actually amusing looking all the text, it really gives me the air of like someone i know talk to me, instead of reading.
Btw. Regarding fake stuff, there is a saying, don't let the left hand know what the right hand doing...
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## infinite beginner (Aug 19, 2014)

Okay ,my thoughts of jurus , means never having to step into the same stream twice  you can practice combinations, or you can create them out of thin air, if you want to  be tricky , but if you get too tricky you could get killed ,its like musical scales you wouldn't want to just pick up a violin for the first time and start jamming just cause you have been given a book outlining the scales to practice, after being shown how  to hold it  properly support its structure,  then scales start to become possible to perform  at this point one can drop their teacher and turn the scales into musical language,   making up their own songs ,which makes as much sense, as being given the alphabet and  then going off inventing your own words , when do the scales become song.     seems the jurus are the language of the systems , each with its own dialect , and accent   bottom line there are rigid confines to the art of composing endless combinations from  jurus motions ,so it has to be a mixture of monkey see monkey do along with explanation and then ultimately we evolve through close guidance into being competent composers  fact is how teachers use the jurus works, how beginners use the same jurus,  don't work    so they learned from watching their teacher who learned from watching their teacher ,     how good can one get at knowing the abc's ,once you know em you know em ,and how can knowing them better help you discover the hidden symbols called words   its the same thing how insane for someone who master the jurus and forms  to think they can build a technique on their own , that is to even try to figure out what a motion means ,is to bring the art to your level ,now if your level  of  understanding is high, than its a service to the art, if its low you bring  disservice to the system, so knowledge of jurus without example and guidence along the way ,is a very dangerous thing ,My teacher would say its all in the jurus but as often equally true he would also say the jurus,  tell you nothing


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## Reedone816 (Aug 20, 2014)

^^ it's all in buah, if you know buah, you can duplicate or create your own kembangan.
seeing kembangan as it is then you see nothing, but in kembangan you can see buah, but not all can see and not all can see the whole buah inside kembangan, that is why guidance is needed, to separate the weeds  from the crops.
knowing the moves is less than knowing the concept, knowing the concept is less ideal than understanding the concept, because when you understand you can mold it as you like...


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## Brian R. VanCise (Aug 20, 2014)

MattofSilat said:


> Although it's not related to the OP, I think your last statement is wrong.
> 
> In every martial art, maybe even including BJJ, size and strength are vital. I would say that technique is important, but there's no way the statement that 'size' (Weight, Strength, Height) doesn't matter is a true statement. I would like you to name one martial art in which Size 'does not matter', excluding BJJ as that wasn't the topic at hand and it was designed for this.
> 
> Besides, realistically, you'd struggle IRL knowing BJJ and no striking techniques.



Size matters in BJJ as well!


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## infinite beginner (Aug 24, 2014)

size matters in jj eh , tell that to little old man gracie when you walked into his old school of course size matters,  but its value is incrementally diminished with the acquisition of skills   also who gives a hoot bout joo jitzoo in a silat forum,thats a sport framed arena of combat , real silat is not, so they go for the mount they get their nuts twisted off ,immediately  they forget how strong &  ground skilled they are , and sure no one wants to fight no troglodyte ,cyclops , but if they  know how to break someone down to size by any and all means, then their chances might be a little better, would  you,  on the street in self defense situation ,ever say to yourself, this attacker is too big, I am going to lose over my life ,all my training will prove futile  against this large opponent, in the ring its relevant outside the ring the game is only survival,  your only trophy is your life, there can be no debate, it can't matter,in that moment ,that is as a rule the more it matters the more it can not matter,and the street has no rules


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## infinite beginner (Aug 24, 2014)

how many real fights have we ever seen where only one fighter gets hit  compared to those where both take a strike at some point , so all the odds say whoever fights will likely get hit ,blindside surprise sucker punch ko's excluded but thats part of it ,where over if will we get struck big difference between winning, and coming out completely unscathed, at what point of skill level can one expect never to get hit, I would not argue with those  who have argued at no point is the only valid answer,  are we not in silat to trained to welcome estimate and accommodate all their forces motions and momentums directed our way,  has any boxer been told by their corner ,do more hay maker head hutting ,but does that stop them from trying  its like a hail mary a hole in one or a strike to get a clean first punch to the head , so isn't a good idea too always  make the hardest targets appear to be the easiest, thats not an open question in my mind,so yes ,yes it is


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## Transk53 (Aug 24, 2014)

infinite beginner said:
			
		

> hay maker head hutting



??



			
				infinite beginner said:
			
		

> so isn't a good idea too always make the hardest targets appear to be the easiest



Was not aware there was a sliding scale on that, but still there is sense in doing that. The fact is, the perceived hardest target will be the one hovering in the background. Seen many real fights where both take a hit, but that is purely down to the fact that 9 out of 10, are just unskilled. Mind you, this post is very difficult to discern, so I may have read it wrong.


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## Reedone816 (Aug 24, 2014)

Size and physical atributes does matter, but techniques, commitment and experience can balance that.
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## Transk53 (Aug 26, 2014)

Reedone816 said:


> Size and physical atributes does matter, but techniques, commitment and experience can balance that.
> Sent from my RM-943_apac_indonesia_207 using Tapatalk



You are indeed correct, but you have left out tactile sense.


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## infinite beginner (Sep 3, 2014)

attack by drawing is all it means, just a long way  saying  abd,  so to be clear,  the widest umbrella range of effectiveness as by way of countering system,  may seemingly be more inherent to unorthodox systems   once they figure out they don't know where you're coming from  it may be too late for them to counter as planed  , or say on average it takes a back and forth counter , more than two times to apply technique in other words to practice blocking a jab cross and a kick is practicing three chances of getting hit  on the way to the opponent,as opposed to shutting down their motion  through evasion and relocation closing in .that is, the systems that  have the best and fastest strategies in place for getting behind the opponents  mobility and structure seem to be the most sophisticated and time tested , just how where and why one stands from start to finish can play a crucial  role in the final outcome


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## Reedone816 (Sep 8, 2014)

Counter attack doesn't mean to counter it with another attack, but using your opponent commitment to attack we can use their power and multiply it.
One of that technique is called liliwatan (literally means to pass it through). This can be a finishing move or a start of a finishing combination.
The key is to have contact, let him commit more, then you let go of your commitment and let him through with additional push from you. That is liliwatan.
And while he pass through you, what can he do to stop what you can do at that moment? Because a good liliwatan nullifies his ability to defend because he will think only of regaining balance and survive.
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## infinite beginner (Sep 13, 2014)

exactly,we want them to pass through us, and hit a wall  or an elbow, absorbing their maximum force , until its our force to place , wheresoever  we please , pulling their force through us could take years to learn , then theres the art of what to do with the force after it ours and capturing it ,    we can throw it back or from side to side or forwards  and downwards or upwards in all directions , ideally  entangling them in their own force ,    now it seems what separates levels is knowing possibilities of  being countered in everything they do, and there are thousands  of counters for everyone technique executable , a newer student knows the techniques the offensive best and goes on that dreading anyone stop their motions in their tracks where more seasoned   players incorporate the others counter into everything they do  that is the recounter is not separate from the attacking strike  so sure its great to control the force behind a hard strike flying in  but even more complicated  is controlling the force of their countering  in other terms limiting their structure is part of the strategy, their counter striking is part of our initial striking, you have a confrontation or contest ,you see an opening line ,and aim a strike to the jaw etc one of two things will happen it will connect,or something will go wrong so where are you now structurally speaking ,but right where you want to be    isn't it true no one from other martial arts has anything that works on us silat  practitioners ,right? well what the efen heck good is it then , that it works on  some but not all styles is not good enough ,tossing people around wearing the same  logo don't mean that much , unless those players have and bring deep martial backgrounds onto the floor ,once I trained with this guy at a seminar class throwing him  around like nothing, showing him stuff like a beginner ,only to find out later he was  an akido instructor , another one might have gave me a harder time another an easier time who knows ,but its fortunate to train silat with allot of silat people with big martial arts junkie  backgrounds , its like comparing checkers and chess , to be sure the one who invented checkers  was heralded as brilliant by the locals, riding out their glory completely unaware that somewhere  someone had just conceived the notion of of chess , seems allot talk about it but actual silat schools by comparison are few and classes are small it is still a very underground art ,traditionally handed  /down generationally  in near perfect tact , who knows what sophistications are yet unknown  outside small circles


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## Reedone816 (Sep 14, 2014)

In cimande the is a saying, "whomever attack first, lose."
Original cimande is a counter art, it was known that they keep space with their opponent in 1.5 steps.
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## Dylan9d (Sep 23, 2014)

infinite beginner said:


> exactly,we want them to pass through us, and hit a wall or an elbow, absorbing their maximum force , until its our force to place , wheresoever we please , pulling their force through us could take years to learn , then theres the art of what to do with the force after it ours and capturing it , we can throw it back or from side to side or forwards and downwards or upwards in all directions , ideally entangling them in their own force , now it seems what separates levels is knowing possibilities of being countered in everything they do, and there are thousands of counters for everyone technique executable , a newer student knows the techniques the offensive best and goes on that dreading anyone stop their motions in their tracks where more seasoned players incorporate the others counter into everything they do that is the recounter is not separate from the attacking strike so sure its great to control the force behind a hard strike flying in but even more complicated is controlling the force of their countering in other terms limiting their structure is part of the strategy, their counter striking is part of our initial striking, you have a confrontation or contest ,you see an opening line ,and aim a strike to the jaw etc one of two things will happen it will connect,or something will go wrong so where are you now structurally speaking ,but right where you want to be isn't it true no one from other martial arts has anything that works on us silat practitioners ,right? well what the efen heck good is it then , that it works on some but not all styles is not good enough ,tossing people around wearing the same logo don't mean that much , unless those players have and bring deep martial backgrounds onto the floor ,once I trained with this guy at a seminar class throwing him around like nothing, showing him stuff like a beginner ,only to find out later he was an akido instructor , another one might have gave me a harder time another an easier time who knows ,but its fortunate to train silat with allot of silat people with big martial arts junkie backgrounds , its like comparing checkers and chess , to be sure the one who invented checkers was heralded as brilliant by the locals, riding out their glory completely unaware that somewhere someone had just conceived the notion of of chess , seems allot talk about it but actual silat schools by comparison are few and classes are small it is still a very underground art ,traditionally handed /down generationally in near perfect tact , who knows what sophistications are yet unknown outside small circles



Pretty full of yourself aren't you?

Thats exactly the reason i stopped with Silat after 9 years.

I got introduced when i was 19 yrs old to a guy named Raymond Ingram, and later to his dad Jim Ingram. Raymond was living in my hometown so he became my steady trainingspartner.
After 9 years of training with them on a daily base i quitted because i wanted to broaden my horizon. So i went on looking for more Silat, checked out most public lessons in my area but most teachers were so full of themselves, last school i tried was Bukti Negara and the people were nice but the art didn't felt right to me. In between i trained a year eskrima privatly and Krav Maga.

Last recent failure was a JKD trail lesson were the guys were so full of themselves.

Now i found a new home at the Ving Tsun school in my hometown wich has a very nice teacher and all really awesome people.


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## Reedone816 (Sep 23, 2014)

Dylan9d said:


> Pretty full of yourself aren't you?
> 
> Thats exactly the reason i stopped with Silat after 9 years.
> 
> ...



It's a bit of a dilemma actually, in one part we need to have faith in the system we currently learning, but in other hand, by being blind how can we acknowledge our weakness?
The founder of the art I currently learning, need to learn to many masters, until fate guided him to his last two masters, and learning the flaws of the systems he had learned.
There was a quote from a grand master, that said, there is no art that is bad, it just the level of the practitioner it self is still low, once the level is high, the art will look good.
And about "full", even in the land of its birth, there are many "full" people, but the good thing is, the people at the top of the chain that i ever met are all really humble, that you can't guess from his/her attitude, that the one person can literally kill people in a snap.
It is a sad thing that you haven't met your clicks in silat, but again i myself met my path by accident, not because of careful and deliberate plan that i ended up learning this style. 
But I'm happy for you since at least you finally found the system that match your hearth.

There was a nice story: When the student finished learning for the master, the master order the student to learn other ma, and comeback and test his new skill against the master, and on and on, until the master can be defeated by the student, the master it self without hesitation would look to learn from the last master his student learn to defeat him.

btw. Have you travel to Indonesia? the Grand Master of Mustika Kwitang H. Zakaria in 1960's in by invitation by the then President, put an awe on Masatoshi Nakayama and Donn F. Draeger for his unarmed performance and slick machete works. 
Even though he is well known for his students achievement in competitions, and one of the founder of one of the biggest mass organization in Jakarta, he still lives in his humble home, with barely a furniture in it. In his old age, he also still teach in Kwitang Area.


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## Dylan9d (Sep 25, 2014)

Reedone816 said:


> It's a bit of a dilemma actually, in one part we need to have faith in the system we currently learning, but in other hand, by being blind how can we acknowledge our weakness?
> The founder of the art I currently learning, need to learn to many masters, until fate guided him to his last two masters, and learning the flaws of the systems he had learned.
> There was a quote from a grand master, that said, there is no art that is bad, it just the level of the practitioner it self is still low, once the level is high, the art will look good.
> And about "full", even in the land of its birth, there are many "full" people, but the good thing is, the people at the top of the chain that i ever met are all really humble, that you can't guess from his/her attitude, that the one person can literally kill people in a snap.
> ...



I haven't been in Indonesia. You are asking because of the whole Zakaria vs Ingram discussion from 10 years ago? Discussions like that only exsist in the so little world of Silat. And i do believe that the teachers in Indonesia are pretty humble people, but most Guru/Maha Guru/Pendekar outside Indonesia not so much. 

To much politics in Silat and that i haven't had my "clicks" in Silat isn't true, else i wouldn't practiced it for 9 years.

Im happy were i am now, i am happy what i have learned in the past.


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## Reedone816 (Sep 27, 2014)

Dylan9d said:


> I haven't been in Indonesia. You are asking because of the whole Zakaria vs Ingram discussion from 10 years ago? Discussions like that only exsist in the so little world of Silat. And i do believe that the teachers in Indonesia are pretty humble people, but most Guru/Maha Guru/Pendekar outside Indonesia not so much.
> 
> To much politics in Silat and that i haven't had my "clicks" in Silat isn't true, else i wouldn't practiced it for 9 years.
> 
> Im happy were i am now, i am happy what i have learned in the past.




The truth is i was ignorant on that issue. After a little digging up i found that thing already settled?
Why i ask is that i found it is good to also look up to other lineages of the system we learn, since to my experience let us see thing in other point of view, thus enable us to see something that unthinkable before.
Anyway goodluck to you.


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## infinite beginner (Sep 29, 2014)

hey I was almost offended till you listed the rest who were too full  the art has nothing to do with anything but the art , what if a holes may hold the best art in town ,and the down to earth teacher maybe more removed less authentic , when your expected to cross over hot desert  sands , and you put on some sandals  do you say these aren't comfortable  enough , I need birkenstocks , no you cross the desert and get to the other side, looks more like its a learning environment that suits you might take priority over the material  being taught , I've been doing jkd over 20 yrs why, just yesterday I used an escrema stick to kill a spider, figure eight  came in handy , I only actually had two years of class , what the hell does that mean ten years with one system and you jumped ship  those big numbers indicate one never dedicated yourself much to the art  ten years twice a week that means something , and if your not trained and ready to represent and train others after that ,somethings wrong  with the picture , nine years but only on full moons means nothing  the calendar has nothing to do with training experience its the hours clocked in on the classroom floor , some say I was with this teacher for ten years ,    no they were with the teacher for a few weekends each year spanning a decade  but thats how the filling up of oneself most notoriously originates from the school hoppers and name droppers ,after ten yrs one should be expected   to have mountains of material, I don't know much about those you've mentioned or why you would even throw your stones back in retrospect , after so many years, of daily training under them  ,and  anyone who goes around boasting of no ego  is playing the same superiority game as the egotist only from a different angle ,  some have few exposures and start up schools based most entirely upon all the ego and the self importance they can generate to con their audience of novices


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## infinite beginner (Sep 29, 2014)

theres all kinds of reasons for training  it might well start purely self defense  then take on other aspects of interest  like stepping up to the challenge of  what the body is able to gradually  do, silat has allot of ground acrobatics many physiques may find hard to conform to, he who attacks first loses,okay  but he who lands the first clean strike has the clear advantage, its a paper thin line , its better to get them as they start to attack us but a slit second longer is to late  we may aim to offend the attack not defend against it,or in other words we want to fck them up out the gate to best do this requires all their might. ideally the object is they want to strike me with all their force, now they are punching into the corner or their friend with even more force , because after they have used all their force the rest is up for grabs  simple in principle but more difficult in practice , with real time feeding ,where we deflect and they impale they selves into the jurus  funny thing  about the jurus ,some motions look like fighting some don't ,its the ones that don't  that are the most  effective and hard to counter tools ,because the jurus show what to do from any position ,from the one position shown , a juru motion in its home position is like a car in the drive way,can go in any direction from there


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## infinite beginner (Sep 30, 2014)

well the jurus don't actually show sht, and learning how to move them around is bad advice without a teacher of the system , they aren't meant for amateur hour on the discovery channel , and joe public while your at it tell me off the top of your head what this page of Indonesian writing says ,you have about the same chance unlocking those juru or as getting that car out of the driveway on the road  with no transmission, if they say juru nine elbow to a  knee followed by a jab cross ,run get out of that anything goes with silat school as fast as possible ,you won't be doing the art any service ,its like saying I'm learning Spanish one menu item at a time, heres the thing silat is bigger than most styles ,yet much smaller, as there are hundreds of different kinds originating from tribes and families scattered all through out the islands with just a handful with some exceptions practicing each traditional art,


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## Dylan9d (Sep 30, 2014)

infinite beginner said:


> hey I was almost offended till you listed the rest who were too full the art has nothing to do with anything but the art , what if a holes may hold the best art in town ,and the down to earth teacher maybe more removed less authentic , when your expected to cross over hot desert sands , and you put on some sandals do you say these aren't comfortable enough , I need birkenstocks , no you cross the desert and get to the other side, looks more like its a learning environment that suits you might take priority over the material being taught , I've been doing jkd over 20 yrs why, just yesterday I used an escrema stick to kill a spider, figure eight came in handy , I only actually had two years of class , what the hell does that mean ten years with one system and you jumped ship those big numbers indicate one never dedicated yourself much to the art ten years twice a week that means something , and if your not trained and ready to represent and train others after that ,somethings wrong with the picture , nine years but only on full moons means nothing the calendar has nothing to do with training experience its the hours clocked in on the classroom floor , some say I was with this teacher for ten years , no they were with the teacher for a few weekends each year spanning a decade but thats how the filling up of oneself most notoriously originates from the school hoppers and name droppers ,after ten yrs one should be expected to have mountains of material, I don't know much about those you've mentioned or why you would even throw your stones back in retrospect , after so many years, of daily training under them ,and anyone who goes around boasting of no ego is playing the same superiority game as the egotist only from a different angle , some have few exposures and start up schools based most entirely upon all the ego and the self importance they can generate to con their audience of novices




I think you need to learn to read i guess, i trained 9 years on a daily basis with the Ingrams. And daily it means every day for at least 2 hours.

But exactly your behaviour is the reason people see Silat practitioners as a bunch of whining clowns.

Who are you talking to anyways, you are most of the time brabbling on these boards.


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## Reedone816 (Sep 30, 2014)

infinite beginner said:


> a juru motion in its home position is like a car in the drive way,can go in any direction from there




Papat ke lima pancer.
Four directions front back left right, and the fifth is pancer.
The influence from hindu philosophy.


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## infinite beginner (Oct 4, 2014)

Well I was trying to be more hypothetical than hyper critical but now I guess I'm talking to you mr D.  wow, twice weekly , for exactly nine years , its it was obviously a nine year contract you must have been under , thats sounds pretty harsh ,but as you know allot silat schools usually only offer ten year training contracts for their students ,so you got off light, well it  must of been a horrendous hitch , after ten years, of such obligatory dedication , at what phase of your training did this bitterness you have for those full of themselves begin to fester and fuse into your silat, I put principles into prose , you don't like it prove it wrong , pin point something ,instead of swooping down spewing sweeping generalizations ,     as small as silat is in the states,I doubt it will miss your leaving it behind ,it appears your time has left it no sizeable contribution,you step in or on  one silat you step on all silat , theres no other art like it, and how some have the audacity , WHEN WE, ALL OR MOST , DECIDED DEDICATED  LIFE  TIME PRACTITIONERS OF THE ART OF SILAT, FOR SOMEONE TO  COME ON, HERE, TO THIS  SITE, A SILAT SITE, AND TRY TO PUT BLAME AND SHAME ON THE ART ,WITH YOUR MINORITY STORY OF YOUR DISSATISFACTION , OH ALL OF INDONESIA MUST BE DOING THE WRONG ART, ITS THE ARTS FAULT ,ITS TO BE SUPPOSED THE OTHER STUDENTS FLED IN DROVES ,WITH YOU AND WE WILL SOON HEAR FROM THEM,    now you've  opened the floodgates for, more to follow , soon there will be pages of testimonials of how the art let them down, after ten years, I don't  really care , what you write ,or that the art you do now is silly , go back to silat while you still can, before those new principles make chop suey of your silat , and not you D alone this may sound like I'm fiull of myself but this goes to anyone ,stop what your doing go back to silat , silat is small here, don't desert it, condemn it , and dismiss it, like he has ,


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## infinite beginner (Oct 4, 2014)

I guess its more like a jet hovercraft in the driveway  four directions or  rather five please expound, SEEMS THE STRUCTURE SUPPORTS four simultaneous power striking angles,mean if theres a circle around you can strike to any point initially then the rest from that position on a plus sign ,according to body physics,talking maximum power


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## Reedone816 (Oct 5, 2014)

infinite beginner said:


> I guess its more like a jet hovercraft in the driveway  four directions or  rather five please expound, SEEMS THE STRUCTURE SUPPORTS four simultaneous power striking angles,mean if theres a circle around you can strike to any point initially then the rest from that position on a plus sign ,according to body physics,talking maximum power


papat lima pancer, focus on stance/footwork. in west side of java, the silat movement divided into two category, jurus for hand and body movement, and pancer/langkah for feet movement and facing orientation.
so a complete silat move is an incorporation of those two, upper body+lower body.
why pancer is important it is because it is the base, without good base all jurus can't be executed in-perfection/flowed. that is why learning to do langkah (lit. walk) and pancer (lit. center/pivot) in proper way is critical.
there are two basic use in pancer, to change orientation and to change our opponent orientation.
for example in a scenario where your opponent attack you straight on, -base on philosophy in silat "lurus dilawan serong, serong dilawan lurus" (lit. straight be met with diagonal/skewed, diagonal/skewed be met with straight)- we met it with changing of pancer from straight to 45 degree facing, this way either with block/counter/throw/lock if successful we are "changing the opponent orientation", thus destroying his advance. now if we use lock or throw, by additionally doing a 90 or 180 degree pancer, we can place where we "land" the opponent.
this is useful if we met multiple attacker, we can use the opponent as a shield.
a nice sample of pola langkah and pancer, look at his footwork:


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## infinite beginner (Oct 13, 2014)

It occurs to me as I just watched some indian martial artist 
a minute ago , and they should know ,having put the ind in 
indonesian, I was told thats where silat comes from,but the
point is ,once a set of principles are ingrained into the foundation 
then any art that shares the same foundation of principles 
is like an outside  lesson in our own art,
 the genius of any system  is in simplifying the complex 
where systems cross , in their approaches, to techniques 
at that moment they are doing your art and you theirs
where the differences disappeared  if point E is as they
 attack to have the opponent KO on the floor, and ABC
 and D ,is the method of arriving at E , that is if we were 
to break the major motions down to frame by frame , 
rare is it , all the frames match identically but if they do
its like a jackpot on a slot machine ,but if enough of them
 do you can fill in the blank easy enough to keep it in the
common sense understanding ,as an extension of knowledge
more than an addition to it , meaning to still be able to do 
things the same old way ,only with an added trick or two, 
picked up ,by watching, its like effortless if they are working 
under the same principles no conversion applies ,whats the 
big difference is that divides styles ,isn't what their hands 
are doing once in range ,but what their feet work was to 
step them off  into their elbow range , however subtle  
some more superior styles might suggest , the core and 
heart of the art is in the footwork ,and the hands take a 
backseat, that the hands are  to put up an leveraging obstacle
so crucial footing can be established ,and once standing
 in the same space where they're standing ,or rather 
collapsing down into ,then foot stance and structure 
 has been achieved,like what happens when some one 
nudges their shoulder into another while walking 
its creates a shuddering little stumble , and a couple
of steps to regain balance,just as limbs are there for 
striking ,the stance step and structure ,produce a stumble  
effect only thing is their feet are trapped , so they are to 
 fall straight down with broken legs or darn near , 
which brings us to the sapu , some think of the sweep 
as a tool to induce falling, others as something best 
done after they are already falling ,the difference is 
hitting the floor about ten times harder if you wanna
add in compression principles , so the only way to fall 
straight down is to have no legs the only way to take
 the legs is bump into them, well its the simplest anyway
just don't forget to say excuse me,the bump can also 
be considered a strike ,one way I learned is to take out 
the collar bone with the passing  shoulder strike ,I say
 learned ,cause its not as easy as it seems , in silat
everything is ingeniously converted into a weapon ,


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## infinite beginner (Oct 19, 2014)

I'd  say,  good clip ,just watched it, busy feet, he's not just  beating the hell out of the air in front of him, like some, but he's always turning to check  his back , which is better than sometimes , cause its not best sometimes to guess that there's an attacker behind, you , its all the time or no time, put it  like this,all it takes is to guess wrong one time, that's to assume at the same time an attacker's coming from the front another  ones got your blindside, you're probably already hit if you didn't  strike them first, two or more  on one aint fair , in this situation  you're sandwiched in strikes ,hammered  simultaneously, you training responses have to instantly be brought their sharpest point imaginable to survive, you ever even see one good fighter fight  two good fighters in the ring , where is it on you tube , I haven't ran across it, if you train that it will take up all your skills or attention  for one good worthy opponent ,if you had three seconds now you've only got one to do whatever you planned, after ten years of solid study   a decade is compressed into one second ,in the time it takes you to size up the guy in front of you something cold is sticking in your back ,what I did see on you tube  is how fast a skinny gansta kid could have his blade drawn on this guy who insulted him  ,like a gunslinger used to wear their holsters low on the hip , so the arm doesn't lose a beat having to bend on the draw ,thats what this kid did,just swung his arm past his hip and picked up his straight  blade on the way to stabbing up at the verbal offender all just one quick motion,the thing is those of us who wear their pants at a respectable level ,are with out that quick draw gangsta gunslinger advantage, but the funny thing is if the just want to fight their first move is always to tug their pants up  my guess is thats when to hit them ,though they mix it with foot work and its done fast , usually with a short back shuffle , cause they know they can't fight like that ,they must practice it allot ,also when they go to do this that might be the only time you see them without a knife or gun in their hand


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## Reedone816 (Oct 20, 2014)

Sapuan, depends on how it executed can be several things.
Horizontal sapuan with the heel can be aimed to crush the ?feet eye? Or ankle. The hook kind of sapuan, if done right, to have the head/neck-upperback land first. Similar to sapuan, ankle pick technique also exist in silat (saw it in cingkrik).
As for multiple opponent, a good attack with pancer and langkah tiga can position us to our-just-attacked-opponent behind thus we can see 360 degree and if there actually opponent from once-our-back, we put our-just-attacked-opponent in between us and our once-in-the-back-opponent.
We do langkah, we circle the first opponent.
We do pancer, we makes the first opponent to circle us (putar kepala or side throw).
Basic concept against multiple opponents. But hard to execute/to be outside of the circle.
Sent from my RM-943_apac_indonesia_207 using Tapatalk


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## infinite beginner (Nov 3, 2014)

oh wow 50 000, yes the sapu or sapuan its like a swiss army sweep  i was taught to see it ,primarily as a kicking technique , bone or muscle  to nerve points , lots of pain and destruction on the way down,thats in actual application , the mechanics of the sapu alone contains a good  portion of the foundation of the art , the raising the knee ,the torquing of torso the balancing on one leg ,the lines the hands and feet follow, the push pull motion, the exact angle of the leg and feet , the timing between hand and foot ,allot of material hidden in what looks to be a simple sweep  yeah its always harder to fight the one behind you ,strategies for multiple opponents cannot be over emphasized like getting behind the guy who's behind you, or in front of you , but one of the keys is finding a human shield to hide behind  if you are behind one in control of them the other two or three okay nine are gonna have allot harder time getting to you and if you really know what you are doing they might well even happen to start accidentally knocking out each other ,yeah yeah in silat everything is a weapon everyone knows this , even the one attacker is considered our weapon against the other,so if two attack you essentially have two weapons to chose from , at all times though at the same time you have no time, this all has to be preprogrammed through all your training  , i think most silat is multiple attacker principled  , but how multiple is the question ,


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## infinite beginner (Nov 3, 2014)

minding your own business say fights break out a strike comes you meet it with what intent, to parry to deflect ,hit etc  or is your intent that you meet it to control its force now 100%, to do with it what you will, so its no longer theirs at all ,do you own the striking limb immediately,


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## infinite beginner (Nov 7, 2014)

how fast do you have to swing a bat, to hit a fast ball, and of all the silat etc , skills,  which is the most valuable ,  if a fist is made, how much force would it take  an elbow or a knuckle to destroy ninety five percent  of the hand , if we make our best fist with one hand   then tap it with the back of our other  knuckle ,  especially around the thumb , it becomes obvious  fast how fragile a fist is , now if that fist is the fast ball do we have to reach fast to meet it ? the point being if we have excellent enough timing skill ,to meet  that force when its in close range ,then the foe is defanged,     of course you have to slightly guide the strike off to your line not theirs , in reality its very very hard to execute ,not cause one has to move fast or far just more being at the right place right time , in fact you have to only move a few inches, their fist , has to travel a couple of feet , also exposing allot of vulnerable  underbelly of the arm targets,as well as exposing the armpit,  to a finger jab when the hand goes extended ,these are all basic techniques few can really pull off ,because you have to time them just right, to me this seems the highest level of martial arts skill not spinning kicks and sweeps  or lighting fast hands ,but if you can pick up every weapon extended and relabel  it a target,  if you can destroy every strike that crosses your line, no one could touch you end of story , and so its back to the batting cages,


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## infinite beginner (Nov 21, 2014)

I think we see  why now , that we better understand the art , why our teacher always told us to do the jurus slow but no one  seemed to ,too busy unlocking the striking dynamics around the puzzle, and the jurus are a puzzle thats never finished , spontaneous composure of combinations are whats locked inside the jurus,  say a juru has seven motions ,that could be unlocked by many formulas or keys , it could be seven fights , each motion is a new  opening move as the set is being done, so each motion is a  whole note waiting to be split down into a sixteenths ,   If you cant split the note, you can't, make a very good song  no puzzle has seven pieces,  unless each piece,  is a puzzle in  itself ,and then those pieces minute puzzles too and so on, now we have a picture of the the jurus, in chess no one looks at one piece in one time, when  all the pieces are active at one time ,chess strategy is not of  the present  but of the future moment ,so say if the first jurus motion is strike, whats the second motion always going to be ?      first who would send their queen out on attack on the opening first few moves more rationally a pawn attacks a light knight is sacrificed and a  dark castle  lost, so what do we see, when we do jurus in the mirror, but the same thing, an opponent sees, a teacher can let you in on all their  secrets, but they can't hand over one ability of their skills ,you can move real slow and imagine your going fast , but if you go real  fast you can imagine nothing , are you gonna stand in front of the mirror just to watch that guy attacking you,  ideally we are going real slow the opponent is moving along in our time warp and the main thing is to imagine everything with the idea of perfection, instead of striking into a thousand possibilities we limit it down to two or three,  and one ideally, so the second motion in our jurus practice is always of course, that badass opponents counter move,


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## Reedone816 (Nov 25, 2014)

jurus is useless without any intention behind it.
jurus was made first by philosophical idea of what the intention is a person want to do to the opponent.
that is why jurus made from "kaidah"/rule of law of that system.
jurus is the representative of the rule of law of the system we learn, thus as example what is the right implementation of one.
so it is better to understand the jurus "intention" instead just to be able to execute it "looks" perfectly.

you don't have to be the fastest, you just need to be there first.


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## infinite beginner (Dec 7, 2014)

Reedone816 said:


> jurus is useless without any intention behind it.
> jurus was made first by philosophical idea of what the intention is a person want to do to the opponent.
> that is why jurus made from "kaidah"/rule of law of that system.
> jurus is the representative of the rule of law of the system we learn, thus as example what is the right implementation of one.
> ...









everything looks different,  at least I still got my beginners blue belt, 
wheres my box, I want my own box to write in, not sure know where I am
but in silat first you have to become a robot once this is accomplished
the next step you must become a magician to stop from being a robot,


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## infinite beginner (Dec 7, 2014)

too often intention goes with out mention 
but at rush hour the freeways are packed 
and the longer winding canyon roads are 
much faster


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## Reedone816 (Dec 8, 2014)

infinite beginner said:


> everything looks different,  at least I still got my beginners blue belt,
> wheres my box, I want my own box to write in, not sure know where I am
> but in silat first you have to become a robot once this is accomplished
> the next step you must become a magician to stop from being a robot,


that's similar to mine, but in term of that upper hip and lower hip are two different entity, just like robot toy we had when we were a little kid.
upper body movement is a whole, arm, body, shoulder are one entity, the trunk, while the feet toes gripping the earth, the root.
this is visible technique, once we past that we enter the magic realm as you said 
unfortunately i'm just a beginner, haven't reach the magic world...


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## infinite beginner (Jan 11, 2015)

just saw a photo of a demo of a renown practitioner,  had a guy
in a lock I'd never seen  after throwing him ,instead of puzzling how did he
wind up there  I thought I know that move or one like it,  its in the jurus

didn't have to think, his arms here his knee is there no it was automatic
even though it didn't show the start,  only the finish the jurus provided  the instant tool to frame the scenario around  opening all the possibilities

thinking , the jurus are never about positioning some one learns a jurus position or two or ten or a million they can still be less than useless its like a globe with no countries drawn on it 

the form can only show one way , all forms are shown like straight lines
too attack with or defend with any  full jurus set,  in sequence and

survive is almost impossible, the idea is where ever you find yourself to be you are at home, the jurus , aren't just landmarks, they become  the map
that link allot of structures together, like there is always, only one point a and one point b , etc, the puzzle is in how many ways can you find to

connect them ,say  if I want to hit the mid section then the last thing I want to do is hit to the mid section, not the, first, I want to hit something high so I can strike something low, in other words  I want to knock them out, on their feet so I can sweep them, and visa versa, that would be the attitude in the timing


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## Reedone816 (Jan 13, 2015)

the first thing my instructor pounded on me is intention, be firm, every action you do is to realize your intention.
if you cannot have a straight forward route, make one, make your opponent open up so you can do what you intended to do.
and the key to that is window of opportunity, don't let your opponent becomes ready.
time it right so your opponent are not reaching the ready state, or if he already ready, makes him un-ready.


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## infinite beginner (Feb 15, 2015)

silat is such a strange art the dance is  <staccato > 

centrifugal and contortionistical , where the arms

are like rubber bands that untwist into whips , 

like a coiled sidewinder , as motions implode so

they can explode, the jurus don't teach you what 

your first move or response will be because its 

too impossible to say , but rather to save the combo 

to flow  from out  of the first motion, as it sets the course 

you can't walk up to a seasoned silat practitioner and decide 

 I'm  gonna work combo b , on them they will leave you swatting

the air as they test for response, leading with sneaky decoy strategy 

making sure the opponents lead up to their attack is their first mistake,


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## infinite beginner (Feb 16, 2015)

how many opponents do you want to fight or to feel like  your fighting  

none, sounds the wisest ideal answer on two dimensions of perspective

to feel any pressure from the opponent means all the training has just  

fizzled out the window into a struggle of strengh, meaning if its detectable 

how much mass speed wt or force is flying in, then your in the wrong place 

in relation to your opponents balance, its like walking in the street and being

almost hit by a kid on roller skates or almost being hit by a semi truck , which

caused the most damage by completely missing you, all because of not being

in or moving out of the wrong place at the right time , when the best place to

always  be everyone would all agree is to be behind the opponent as fast as 

possible, its the art of controlling where and how one stands ,in relation to

the force and its source, this is used with putting a spin on the oncoming 

barrage of momentum, just as the billiard geometry needs  a geography  

of the table , using the enemies strengh against them is bllishtt , being able

ideally to feel the energy  of the opponent is bulshiit , ideally and at the 

highest level the whole goal is to be not able to feel any energy from any 

opponent, like if you even feel anyone there you are in front of the force

not behind it,which is why subtle precise footwork is the key to invasion 

through evasion,all force should feel the same what of it we don't kill 

and smash down should be smoothly guided passed,like it wasn't there 

and when then the opponent has no balance ,they are not there when 

we walk through their legs, to stand the exact ground they once held

down, when the opponent is without their balance an assortment of 

new options become available to fill that window, namely compression

techniques, imagine no legs to stand on then being swept as the shoulder 

is pressed making a b line driving it straight down into the ground , that is to 

crumble their structure ,into a ball or if they go airborne from the sweep 

then they can be bounced and smashed flat by compressing the hip as well

this is application gained from sweeping from point blank range,the moment

balance is disposed of


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## infinite beginner (Feb 16, 2015)

so they fall like a vertical accordion with legs twisted 

up under them or stretched out flat as the earth   

traveling up three times the speed of falling gravity

the sapu starts its fiercest at close quarters , like a 

left hook it gets weaker as it loses distance , its

measures of devastation are determined by 

how much the structure is affected prior to

the sweep if it can be done from long range and 

in the process the ground is  covered all the better 

far less travel time involved but that skills akin to  hitting

 ten fast pitched home runs over the fence  in a row , 

goes to show any technique theres still always for one 

thing for sure the sapu that can be thrown in ,at most any 

range  ,at any time of the day


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## infinite beginner (Mar 5, 2015)

Cross training versus having one system,as an argument,cons,seems you're 

better off, with one rooted system every good system has thousands of 

techniques, though most not so unique, they do them their way , 

with one system one can preserve, and have closer access and reference to 

that styles entire arsenal, as they say once a karate guy, always a karate guy, 

now, I don't know that  its true or if I just made it up but ,how many times

can you expect train and untrain learn and unlearn countless repetitions of 

rote motion,driven into auto reflex, in one lifetime 

of course in silat the thousands of techniques are the jurus , in two 

perspectives the basic formula of motions and the complex formula of

 meaning, three if you count then going back to the flow of motion as meaning , 

where there is no standing even close to halfway across the board bulls eye 

technique , any more then there are fortune tellers at fights or crystal balls

 at the track, all training  should teach one thing if anything,,

the strategy of being un predictable, if one practices and knows, what they 

are going to, when a big strike comes flailing out the gate,  loaded for gold,

 then they are 

no sooner being predictable ,if only to themselves , in their thinking , in any silat 

system there is ultimately really only one giant juru and it reduces all technique to 

transitional shifts of adjustments, say, if a jurus sets  one through ten each

 has ten motions then thats physically speaking, a hundred rooted seamless 

reference shifts of position at  any given moments notice,to go in or to deflect

 off and or move the hell out

 of the way ,just the transitioning of position ,even without the strikes has and

 instills a moving target is harder to focus on  principle value of common sense,

rooted behind it ,  should we prefer they strike out at where we were, not 

where we are, we have to appear presented as a target to control the 

opponents motions, motivation, they won't make the right  mistake, unless

 they really want to


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## infinite beginner (Mar 5, 2015)

but then who knows maybe multi styles approach is way

far more practical and convenient and the way of one style 

is fading , overall , and there is cool knowledge in most 

every enduring system no wonder so many compile it up

what makes an art what gives it its name are the masters 

of the art, all styles have titles but its up to and only the

 contemporary masters renew their ancient names, relevance 

too many, it  appears like a torch that as it leaves it source 

through the ages gets handed down dimmer and dimmer,er

 till its a candle in the window dressings on main street


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## infinite beginner (Mar 12, 2015)

so one must know a martial arts secrets and trainings

 have the art in their head then the question is how

well and precise they can perform the motions in

the understandings absorbed , like a boxing trainer 

may know everything about the sport yet 

couldn't last one round with a boxer his class , 

because its not like discovering a shortcut 

after going the long way all this time , the 

foundation of the training must be precise 

in tune with the top of the training , you

 can't go back and rebuild the roots of 

training, but it all becomes how well 

can whats known  be demonstrated 

physically ,its like to say yeah I represent

 this style art or that style art , one must

 to train with constant consistence to keep 

 physically  sharp and wired  enough to perform

 the art at a high standard and it must be 

intent for precision behind every motion, 

practiced, best known strategy and tactics 

won't matter while moving like a slug ,

or rolling a rusty flatbed out onto the

raceway,or out the jet rocket launch 

pad, to climb closer to the art, some

train in an art for years and say look at me 

look what I can do, what I can do, 

not look what the art has aloud 

me to accomplish, the techniques skills all

belong to the art we just provide its physical 

form and vehicle   

the art starts past where we can grasp and

goes farther than we can see ,


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## infinite beginner (Mar 12, 2015)

the martials art each  is held  like the ax,  the novice

practitioner  lumberjack looking as some experts 

chops  may be fast to say they have a better

 ax in that group than mine, think I'll get one of those 

like saying  santana has to  have a better guitar ,for the 

how and why he plays so well, while any great player can make 

most any cheap guitar sound good, so instead of 

learning  and sharpening ones own ax ,in hand to keep

buying into  new ones that arrive seeming almost as dulled 

down  , as the ones left, behind , if the jurus are not a walk 

thru guide book of the art,  what does the symbols A -Z tell us 

about what it is, the jurus are like that, within them lies a hidden

 language , like one note in music  individually taken means nothing 

 but clump several together and to a trained  ear suddenly songs can 

be formed and sorted there is no linear order to the notes chosen, the

ones that when mixed sound good, are then selected and composed  

into song ,


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## infinite beginner (Mar 12, 2015)

no one is actually a martial artist but rather

just a martial practitioner that strives for 

flashes or flows of the perfection, that is

the art , when ten things come together 

perfectly in one step and everything is 

countered and works the way its suppose 

to ,that is a glimpse of the  art , like who 

thinks of perfect chess being about hours of 

two staring entranced into the squares, its  five 

moves, checkmate, its the opening 

setup, that make these games possible     

to imagine just the first move could set them up a 

hundred percent, so that any follow up becomes 

possible , is to imagine being a martial artist,


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## infinite beginner (Mar 12, 2015)

no one is actually a martial artist but rather

just a martial practitioner that strives for 

flashes or flows of the perfection, that is

the art , when ten things come together 

with one step and everything is perfectly

countered and works the way its suppose 

to ,that is a glimpse of the  art , like who 

thinks of perfect chess being about hours of 

two faces staring sharply  into the squares, its  five 

moves, checkmate, its the opening setup, that

make these rare victories ever possible , and to 

imagine how just the first move could set them up

a hundred percent, in such a way so that most any follow 

up becomes possible , is to imagine being a martial 

artist, its like chess in that one makes their move having

calculated every imaginable possible counter move ,from

the opponent and the counters to those, so seems the more

 counters and options we can find and fathom  for our opponents 

to react with the better, and easier to take them away from them


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## infinite beginner (Mar 28, 2015)

It seems physical fitness and strength is the icing on the cake

or the cake under the icing, meaning its good to train and stand 

cross legged and smash the air, but without once in a while trudging 

up some steep hills and throwing some some wts around ,and   

possessing some super gymnastic strengh, never slowed Bruce

Lee down ,in his moves, a great, few might deny possibility the greatest 

modern martial arts practitioner,  on or off the screen, now if he had sat 

in a chair all day and drank scotch and taught his martial arts 

techniques at night, it would've not  been the same, he would've

been bruce who ?, but the fact that his  peak physical shape was

inseparable from his martial art, mindset that he could move like a 

feather weight and hit and kick like a heavy weight, its like

everyone learns the same art in a style , but they express 

and process the knowledge though a different machine, and

vehicle, heres where everyone takes the art to their own limits 

same thing with Ali fitness fanatic , how could he have been 

the greatest without that, those two both strived constantly to attain  

Rolls Royce level physiques, few are close to, most have in comparison

volks wagons they would be lucky to ever upgrade to BMW's, but were 

they to if at all possible how could it not help but, serve more 

respect to the expression of whatever art they claim their involvement, 

Lee would explode into motion hit or kick at someone quicker then they

could see it, with power  lifting them off the ground  didn't really matter 

what art he lent his hand, that precision timed explosiveness he possessed,

that made it JKD


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## infinite beginner (Mar 31, 2015)

Ok the elbow is silats secret  weapon no one uses it so

sneaky widely and efficiently, as the Indonesians, have

come to , it is the most elbow,  of all the arts, silat has more

variations of elbow than boxing has jabs, as every strike may 

either follow with an elbow or start with one ,but its always 

there like a hidden short baseball bat, the whole objective 

of the arts strategy is to close range, land the elbow, like 

a thousand paths leading to one road, here's a secret  why ,

a coconut cracking silat  elbow can be fired full force from

 nearly any position and it won't affect stability or structure , 

say that about a hong kong  hay maker, or ask if a powerful 

western left hook can always include a triggered incidental

foot sweep and knee,


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## infinite beginner (Mar 31, 2015)

missing  , if you miss you were not focused, if you focus you can not miss 

of course  thats an extended embellishment  on the reverberating echo of

my teachers words , but those precise words just came to me, as I was just

out back  breaking apart a big old wooden lounge chair , for the trash 

with a claw hammer, had the arm free with the first hard swing, at the

half  inch high lip,I went at it focused had it in pieces in no time, 

Its a hand eye fusion of total trust , then when I started thinking about how 

perfectly accurately  I was hitting off the narrow tips of the steel  springs 

I missed three swings , caught up in the gloating  for a moment, broke

the actual focus , reminding me thinking about it is not close to the same

as actual focusing, when theres focus there can be no thought about it only 

more focus


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## infinite beginner (Apr 13, 2015)

speed is useless sometimes, if the object is to balance the coin on the table 

the fastest, racing the coin to the table makes no sense, once there, 

you gotta start all over anyways, to gradually find its precise axis of 

gravitational alignment,


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## infinite beginner (Apr 18, 2015)

funny how  its not how fast the punch goes out but

how fast it retracts that gives it its snap , what, do ya

wanna leave it out there all day like its taking a long

cruise, its sure most anyone can throw their punch

fast but can they catch their punch back faster and use

that to empower a   spinning back hand rolling crescent forward 

lunge sweep not a fat chance or rather not a slim chance, unless its

silat common sense yells in the ear if something comes back

faster than it gets out there leaves ahead a surplus of energy 

somewhere upon its return 

there is no wasted movement of motion,  just as every 

technique has a hidden flaw every counter is balanced

as its checked


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## infinite beginner (May 6, 2015)

just completely understanding all of physics, is a bit difficult , 

there might be martial science but there are no martial physics, 

 its cool ,but  it aint that cool , nothing is , no there is just 

the one and only physics ,and physics doesn't ever go around you 

 you go around it , again the same  leverage principles shown 

us as an effortless  scissor throw are applied to everything 

all heavy lifting or tossing , we run across , of course there's 

adjustments and limits to fling a tree log over the heap turn

 over a rock or throw out and old  couch ,or drunk  all what

 physics that was learned is class is perfectly adaptable 

and applicable,the exact principles are in place,  thats why 

more physics based martial arts take a while , some might

talk of body physics as if the body has physics, when it is

 physics, that has the body, say a strike comes flying in 

one might turn to slip and trail the force , but, specifically to 

what exact, calculated measure of degree , to say make

them come freely fully charging in, past everything, except right 

down clotheslined into the fired elbow, where their head used to be , 

its like  don't  we want to time it perfectly and  just hit the fast 

ball over the fence without having to physically  grapple with its pitcher 

on the diamond rushing in to tackle us ,as the elbow is to silat what the

 bat is to baseball, it sounds simple,  but so does winning a game of chess 

in three moves, 


  Yeah, I see what you're saying, Blind .That describes it well . It kinda reads 

back, in a blurry streamline flurry  like that, to me too. But then again,  if no

 one is so sure or too confused what they are reading, they are much less prone

 to pose a dispute or conflict ,could about count those on one hand that have

 here,  in the past, seems they  all lost all hope and gave up trying,  soon enough,

I don't know ,but anyones disagreements  still is appreciated, and amusing. 

especially non silat people


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## Blindside (May 6, 2015)

Do you have a period on your keyboard?  It would help if you used it, and paragraphs would be good too.

As it is it feels and reads like a transcript of someones stream of consciousness dialogue while tripping.


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## infinite beginner (May 6, 2015)

We know nothing about silat on our own.

We owe it all to those who taught us.

It is not our art, but our teachers, just as it 

is not their art,  but their teachers .


as with good faith a fact out weighs fiction 

for one, no art can be put into words, 

especially martial , it can be only visually 

demonstrated with an explanation,

but without the visual, there is no art

to speak of ,if you're just standing there 

in the wrong place ,someone  just standing 

 there in front wants your watch and takes

 a swing , to explain and breakdown  every 

motion they made from head to toe in the 

one second from just standing there,

would be full of allot of fast detail 

its not a description that would sound  

unlike anyone else who has done the same

but to see it it would stand out to others 

because the visual detail is complete 

words can only describe the completeness

perceived


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## infinite beginner (May 6, 2015)

if its a triangle,  one line is seeing the next feeling the last doing it  

  , so if one watches 

a ping pong lesson , then goes to the table and the teacher is a world 

class player , they may use ten percent of their skill to beat them 

in a match,  and they wouldn't move much , their great refined

detailed skills may not be so plainly visible to look at them,  yet 

another champion could still  pick them out instantly ,

seems the more skilled the more refined and harder to 

read they become


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## martiallightnin (May 6, 2015)

some great anecdotes here. I've been thinking of taking it up myself. Plenty to think about!


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## infinite beginner (May 11, 2015)

Its hell of allot allot to grasp ,  it looks so different ,

than other martial arts again its full of unorthodox 

joint contortions , just watch Indonesian dancers,

see, notice how far back they bend their hands 

and fingers and the sharp insane angles , in which they

 pivot their wrists, watch the plate and candle

dancers , they bend their joints till they almost look 

double jointed ,

 once early on, my teacher got tired or bored with me asking

different  ways I can trap his arms

and next thing I knew I was on my toes the painful

very  efen tips of them , and he had 

his arm raised making two vertical fist turn down ,

 holding my two index fingers with 

my palms facing up, well it was fun for about 

the first five seconds ,but after a couple if 

minutes it was getting old, I looked at my teacher

 just smiling looking right through me 

,well I didn't ask him about trapping , for some time ,

 to this day those two  fingers  can bend backwards 

 quite a bit farther then the rest, Indonesian style  ,

 it was like I was bugging him enough and he punished 

and rewarded me by giving me two Indonesian fingers, 

sore for a couple of weeks , but its the little things that make the

big things flow smoother, so what I first took for just  pure sadism , 

I came to appreciate thinking the Indonesians must do something

 drastic to contort  their fingers back as far as they do, and my 

teacher could bend his back pretty damn far, so I like to think

 his teachers did that to him and he knew exactly what he was doing 

that one morning, he almost broke both my fingers , but when you 

see its not just the dancers bending bending their joints for the aesthetics 

when the old masters can all flex their fingers back as well, again the hand is

like a swiss army knife , so many tools besides the fists and so many kinds of fists 

I think I have it on film I should ,try to find it  re watch it see how long I was actually 

on my toes ,wanna say two hours but that aint right   one thing it did make a minute

 seem like  hours in pain time but  I'm guessing a few minutes real time,come think of 

it that tweaks the toes out too, as you are off your feet balancing on the very points of your 

toes , and that hurts too, at the same time,


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## infinite beginner (May 12, 2015)

the fact seems the martial art for weaklings is a myth

weaklings don't belong in martial arts I realize I have

just offended all you weaklings who train, but so what 

you are just a weakling ,you went to train because you 

are weak , so you could still stay a weakling but kicksomeass

that was your plan, or worse you expected martial arts to 

turn you out of being a weakling, instead of first just deciding 

not to be a weakling in the first place,you can't do anything 

with weak muscles , weak muscles are like having sick muscles 

strong muscles are healthy muscles and the stronger the better

oh I'll go to class two hrs a week be strong in no time, a weakling 

is just three short degrees from being a sickling , don't think of martial arts 

once a week think of all the ways of  

getting stronger 24'7  going to martial 

arts cause your a weakling is among 

the worst reasons, because it seemingly  justifies

the lifestyle of maybe staying  a wimpy 

weakling , are we not every moment getting 

stronger or weaker quicker  or slower, 

more or less coordinated , so  if you are a 

weakling it only takes a few months to  be

 non weak and another few to start getting

 strong, as long as you don't injure muscles 

they will keep healing 

you go to martial arts mostly to get hurt so

 you need extra strong and healthy

 muscles , they are as  easy as a few months

 total dedication and a lions share

 of common sense , so best to get strong 

first on your own time and dime 

them when you go to martial arts you can

 storm on the floor   and go right to wreaking

 havoc upon the biggest weaklings in  the class , 

 saying yeah I 

was one of you, a pathetic weakling, 

strengh is good weakness bad , not conan 

thats mutant deformation 

just strong solid muscles , should be the 

prerequisite for martial arts 

rather than looking  for secret strategies

 to protect and preserve your

weak physique , theres a million programs 

for getting stronger martial

arts is the hardest , cause of all the

 hits and falls be strong and you might

 break even , besides martial arts gets 

complex and difficult where getting stronger

on your own is practically a no brainer, it just 

takes patience persistence and devotion 

things you need for martial arts anyway,at the same skill why don't they mix heavy wts with middle wts, 

in boxing, ever, because if you run into some one at your skill 

level only stronger bigger or quicker , who's gonna win,  you, ?

how ?


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## infinite beginner (May 12, 2015)

what skills do you have when you lose your balance, 

but hope to race gravity to the floor stop drop and roll 

go at it  low level but what if they take your balance 

and you don't know it , its like this if you don't have

theirs at close range , theres a good chance they have

yours, how can you  keep your balance in any struggle 

 if first you don't have theirs, silat is the art of never 

having to lose your balance, or never doing any move that

places balance in danger , when you lose your balance you 

lose your , all your hard earned skills in good standing at the 

same time ,when the silat players  dance in exhibitions ,they look like 

they are trying to shake themselves to the ground  twisting 

and jumping around all jittery,  but no that is just a dance what

martial value could that have, it stabilizes balance in motion 

they swing their balance around in every direction , try to make

yourself almost fall recover then do it again, then really try,

why not get comfortable being  at that point of no return 

and working down from there , be your own worst enemy

try and take your balance with missteps tripsteps and wt shifts,

walk jurus  on a two by four , how hard is it to find one of those 

and a couple of blocks , stand  around with weight on one leg

walk on rice paper , but nothing refines the balance like

the foot work left to the flow in the dance


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## infinite beginner (May 12, 2015)

they need to extend the editing time limit some, 

its like every martial artist is okay with falling 

and okay with catching their balance,  but 

not okay when they can do neither of both 

same spooky feeling when realize you've  leaned back in

the chair too far but not quite so  far back enough to fall or 

come back up 

 sheer panic replaces the moment as it short circuits all thought , 

you can't even think about falling , maybe you will maybe you won't, 

so same thing happens when standing not thinking the legs will

involuntarily  scramble to find any source of stable footing

be it the form of a pretzel ,now having taken the bait in their 

last and only available retreating clumsy  step, back off balance 

they go only now their legs are maybe  locked in a tangle its a 

chase to checkmate you take out the balance take away the legs

whats left , except  the easiest way to fight is the hardest to learn


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## infinite beginner (Jun 13, 2015)

And so what the heck is a stance , its not to be taken loosely

 jumping all over the place, its not really an option , we have 

little choice  how to stand , its the decision of the art how to stand

variations of  mobility dictates the stance , ok , for example your 

in your stance, what can you do , from where you are to where 

you go ,and when you transition to your next stance do you 

have  as many or more options , in other words,  can you be as

 powerful in any direction ? no because all structures  are not equal 

, some are more strategic , and the most strategic of them all 

is the most practical and efficient , that is to say if one is best

according to the physics of the body, shtcan the rest or at best

put them on the back burner , why bother with even slightly

inferior positions , so common sense says , there can be only 

one core stance worth putting forth , one position of ultimate

 instant transition , that is with the smallest adjustments what

 is possible , the time it takes to take a stance is the time it takes

 for a fist to already come flying in ,many may drop into their fancy

 dancy stance only to find  themselves swept or hit inside of that 

moment, its about splitting hairs shaving fractions of a second, 

being an expert means doing more with less motion, motion is the enemy 

it must be minimized to be maximized, cause  its the little things that 

take the longest to master ,or even to see, so we gladly pay out our dues to 

our teachers out of pure amazement, of their abilities cause we don't know 

just exactly wtf they are doing, if we did should we even need to be there 

but the reason we don't  so easily ever catch up with our teachers other than

 the likelihood of their god given physical talents ,is because they too are 

still learning and progressing as they teach , and at a much faster rate than

their students , because their understanding is so much deeper , you might 

learn five new things at a class session, consider your teach then has just 

discovered ten new things, approaches or angles , remembering they

only  became the teachers through first being learning experts, while 

you're  distracted at work, or out doing your daily thing , they are still focused 

on the art  

knowledge is alive the more there is the faster it grows , which is why 

good teachers can always continue to never cease to amaze their students


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## infinite beginner (Jun 13, 2015)

and popularized strategies dealing with multiple opponents 

 is built on fairytale, for one,  the facts seem to conclude, they're 

more likely to throw a about thousand pounds of pressure your way ,

in one near simultaneous stomping pounce  , so you have about the time 

of one breath to win or lose , with no time for added defense thats why 

breathing is held to be such a valued  skill in silat , yes no one shows you how 

to breathe proper, well they do and they don't I mean its not like 

explaining standard a judo flip where you can just go start doing it ,

no you say for months or even years  internally experimenting  am I regulating

this  right most times ahh  wtf feel like I'm just suffocating in chi land I know 

the breath is like a metronome , and at the heart of timing , but so many specifics 

and not enough damn oxygen to go around , it is said silat is an internal 

martial art  breathing is a part of the internal aspect of silat , yeah duh , 

doesn't get much more internal than that, all breathing is inside alright 

of course some don't stay only with the breathing but go on to chase 

shadows in the imaginary dark , never seeing the light of day in any 

arena awarding themselves untold amounts  untested internal chi force

energy and yes and no, but then  apart from the trained breathing , not 

so much, which can be so tediously complicated in itself to ingrain into

particular motions, who would guess a little thing like breathing could

be such a big deal ,yeah  how hard could it be whats easier then breathing 

it ain't  yoga but being an Indonesian art we steal their chi energy element 

out from under their lotus pillows and match it to dynamic motions,


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## infinite beginner (Aug 2, 2015)

infinite beginner said:


> and popularized strategies dealing with multiple opponents
> 
> is built on fairytale, for one,  the facts seem to conclude, they're
> 
> ...


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## infinite beginner (Aug 25, 2015)

so you take what you get and you run with it 

you learn all the rules ,thats the perimeter 

and off the track , there is no skill in technique , 

its like technique is the retarded brother of 

counter technique or the dumb  end of a tape 

measure, its the one with the best counters 

that has the best system , so there must be

 imagination to find different ways to train , 

hang a metal  bat on a rope attached to a garage 

spring anything to make reflexes sharper

and chops choppier , but as soon as you do 

something , say after the third move from jurus 

xyz in response to a surprise  en counter is, what

should the jurus tell you , to do 

automatically , but to counter ,so just hung up a 

swinging plastic bat  over a swinging  medicine ball,

 about easy chair level , but it drove home this valuable

 principle,when I punched the ball the bat slowly swings

every third or fourth hit or second ? who knows its unpredictable ,  

first  was striking then when it swung countering it 

it was breaking the timing of the simple repetitive strikes 

just enough that the only thing to do, was add the little counter 

to the recoil every  time, but do we ever know when it will

be time to counter , no, we don't, so  thats why its easy to chop 

at a target , no strategy needed  just lighting fast speed and frozen

coconut cracking force , or theres a good chance it will be countered 

or obstructed,  so the counter focused offensive method is always thinking 

what can they do,  not what can we do so the intent of the technique 

is to outsmart the counter ,its not who can counter you but who you 

can  counter , for every move, or  tech, there is, its out numbered by

 multiple  counters , so you start your tiger form 27 flurry to counter 

a sucker  punch you see from a mile away at the 7 eleven ,only to feel a 

boot buried into  your shin as  you started your elaborate lash , its a hard 

move to counter ,as low kicks are the most invisible , and unpleasant to 

deal with , sure you might get through you combo form , but the kick 

still smarts, at best, are we willing to take a good solid sneaky shin kick 

because we were too focused thinking about our fantastic  technique 

that will send  em soaring through the air ,and you might be halfway 

to a reverse arm lock knockout only to realize the shin kicker has taken out 

your foot and leg , think they were going to stop with a simple shin kick 

when that was just part of their entry , they practice like a boxer does a jab, 

as a lead in, so when you go in with a punch you better take their legs out

with it, know that the low kick is coming just as sure as the low back sweep

is on the way ,


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## infinite beginner (Dec 26, 2015)

many if not too many misunderstand the jurus , so the jurus

exist  in a responding with  ten thousand answers for every physical 

question viscously postulated,  like the alphabetical symbols provides 

endless word possibilities , but  in time  the letters are 

thrown  to the curb  for the words , its the same thing, for

the jurus,  you throw the jurus away for the motions , like 

the plane once in flight no longer needs the runway , below 

but if it takes off without reaching speed, it always hits the

 farmhouse , and if its not navigated right it goes off the 

wrong way and has to circle all the way  back , to get where

 it was , so when

you are ready to  leave the jurus you have become the jurus  

you have engraved those same precise motions , into the 

deepest fibers of being, and you can not lift a finger , 

without instinctively subconsciously automatically 

attaching to it, some specific precise  jurus , motion ,

 reference, and then do you ever  just scratch your head no, 

never, thats in the jurus , do you raise your arm and

point the obnoxious drunk out down the road  no, jurus

 nine, and two or do you just scratch that back rash all day 

no its all in the jurus , so when you expect the art to work 

for you you gotta work twice as hard for the art , you can't 

master more than one silat system because you can't have

more than one set of jurus reflexes, now the good thing about

 that is 

you can build techniques from the ground up so if you see an 

appalachian sucker punch  or a  judaka ear throw  your jurus can 

break it down and add it it to your repertoire at will ,its  when you

 can't stop doing your jurus  , then its time to drop them , sitting

 there having some  jello hell no your shifting through four jurus

blocking multiple strikes with your elbow  as you level the spoon


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## infinite beginner (Jan 2, 2016)

teachers are a thing of the past man, we got video now

we can learn virtually endless  techniques, what do we need 

teachers for, anymore, then we can be mail order gurus 

and make disks and streams  ourselves to help others 

learn to make ,video courses  too, then they can teach 

what they learned watching us making theres  ,so with

new video courses always being offered we can know

as many techniques as any teacher , out there 

if we play our cards right we can be gurus in 

no less than nine systems a year , we will know

over five hundred ways to twist an ankle , 

sure it might set us back a few grand a month 

but its an enterprise, we can turn over , profits

soon as we release our own first video  course series

of course we can take our nine and combine them

into one super art,  this is the recommended route 

for those who are masters of many systems ,

and so much easier just to do the techniques home 

in our room without all the having to endure always

having someone to point out and nit pick all our little

mistakes as we are learning, up the material ,

thats all having a teachers really good for,  so 

you learn how to spot some mistakes , thats all obsolete in 

in making your video course series , a success,  besides

being told what you're  doing wrong, doesn't  even guarantee

 you will ever do it right , with out allot of perfect practice

and even if you were to take your guitar to  santana 

play his songs and let him be pointing out wherever  you go wrong 

and then  when you have all the smallest mistakes correct you 

would still be lucky to be just half as good ,and what music did you compose 

thats as any where near as good as he is at his worst, who had 

santana as a guitar teacher again, thats right, no one we've all heard of 

you can explain technique but teachers can't teach their skill only develop  

and guide the potential for whatever skills a student possesses


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## ballen0351 (Jan 2, 2016)

This is the best thread ever


----------



## infinite beginner (Jan 25, 2016)

ballen0351 said:


> This is the best thread ever


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## infinite beginner (Jan 25, 2016)

infinite beginner said:


> teachers are a thing of the past man, we got video now
> 
> we can learn virtually endless  techniques, what do we need
> 
> ...


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## infinite beginner (Jan 25, 2016)

silat is an honorable art , letting the other make the first move 

is what makes the art work best  , on so many levels , for one you have

karmic right on your side , this doesn't mean waiting for their strike or thinking to 

intercept  it even , too  late , its like if if you were too light a news

paper end soaked in gasoline on the ground  , if you wait one moment 

you have a fire ,but if you step on it immediately it goes out , 

so there,s three phases  just standing there ,then there is motion 

then comes the strike , its the motion that matters most, 

we might wish we had time to wait to deflect their strike 

but what if they are one of those fools who can produce five 

or more strikes in a seconds time, we are hit four times before 

we know it , so we have the smallest window that opens up 

all our opportunity , and hope that they send a good telegraph 

we can catch before not as their strike  goes out , the hand is so fast 

the hit might be a quarter of the way out anyway that is okay no real power 

as yet so if its deflected at the point just where it bursts into acceleration 

you own that force , and from that you take control over the rest of 

their motion , their  motion becomes your flow , silat is getting inside 

of their motion , we go where they go first,  then they go where ever we

want them to,  so they want to hit us,  at ninety miles an hour we want 

them to miss us,  going two hundred and ten miles an hour , its as simple 

as that , silat is usually shown exchanging strikes in elongated often exotic

looking combinations , that go on and on,  mostly with music,  but thats 

all like only showing  the sheath the outer part that holds the blade , 

like a race car with the hood welded closed , the understanding is sealed

say if you can take a saucer and cup full of  hot tea put it on your head 

and try to stand up , and walk around the room without scalding yourself , 

then you have an internal understanding of controlling your own balance ,

 its ten times harder to understand controlling the balance of another, 

If you move high or low and  your balance is taken in time you can't fight, 

until you get it back , in fact you won't  even know your name,  or think to

take a breath, let alone realize how many hrs you have trained, in what  and all you

knew from it , the truth is ninety nine percent of the art rides  on that 

first millisecond ,that is the key that opens the art , like they are that race 

car we don't know whats under the hood , but as soon as it moves

we jump through window and take the wheel ,  striking of course 

so its an art that takes years to learn,  and forever to master,

to go to someone not set on moving in,  means we are about to

find out what they know , to do with our force, and we might 

find them stepping back or wrapped around our ankle , or dropping

to low sweep etc , and now we are caught having  to play catch up in their 

game, cause we went to them  when they can go anywhere ,and do anything

taking and controlling their balance is the art within the art , and that's the physics 

of it ,


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## infinite beginner (Jan 25, 2016)

thats why many silat schools will just face off 

so many times throwing punches after punch 

in ready stance back and forth followed by a

short technique ,the heart of the art is in the

 reading of the opponents motion just before the

first strike,  timing the entry by what subtleties  

you see this is why its not un common for each

 to fall and get back up way over ten times in a 

minutes passing , not allot of time for allot of thinking 

about perfecting different techniques, that's for the 

slow motion training ,

you hit the mat more in silat than you do in judo , going over

 a hundred falls an hour , in harder training , the more times 

in a class the better ,whats funny is the defenders relaxed using

 all the tricks and no effort while the one striking is getting their

spine twisted to the ground at the speed of gravity so I'm wondering

 here how many falls are their in a silat minute and the only

way is to know now is to walk over to my mat ,and throw a strike

 and imagine the worst happens then throw myself to the mat like

I'd been swept or thrown of course  imagine some counters on the 

way down ,but yeah the mat is no stranger in silat, theres some tangling

 on the ground  but not too much in the event their friends feet 

doing a hat dance on you while you grappling, so you bounce up 

soon as possible ,and by the end of a good class everyone feels

 like they've been in a collective car accident, except for the one

 teaching , they're fine, after a night of bouncing students around


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## infinite beginner (Feb 6, 2016)

so we know the old time tested traditional arts are proved to

work or they wouldn't still be around ,like wheels can't be modified 

by adding more curves the foundations and structures are sacred

 to the core of the form, can you add a line to an F and call it an E,

 or an  I to an A and label  it a triangle , each art is like that letter in

 the alphabet , 

sure it can be calligraphically  drawn into endless designs  ,  but you 

still always must know an F from an E, and recognize their symbolic 

signatures , so some think they are adding fire when its really hot water

 dilution to their respective  system ,  in silat it all was handed down 

through the language of the jurus  motions and meanings 


so whatever we see,  relative to our jurus we can understand 

it becomes ours, if it wasn't already , the jurus are objective

learning tools , formulas for understanding any and all motion 

you can't know a style until internalizing their forms and having 

their meanings passed down to you,  but no one can own a motion   

and there are only so many efficient paths to move and be moved, 


so motions all over lap , and connect at certain points , silat is a 

learning process there are those holding  great vocabulary but 

does any say they know all combinations of letters words , does 

any claim they know all variations  of  motions ,

but we have access to high technology to train our 

selves physically in ways impossible before this 

time, that's how to  improve our art, without changing it


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## infinite beginner (Feb 16, 2016)

Any martial arts can teach the student how to hit hard, 

yet the best systems focus on  teaching how to be hard

to be hit , this is the real skill , and since, no one is

impossible, to hit , which is why hand work with out

foot work is nothing, like a race car ,with four flat tires ,

how when and where one steps, is an art all of its own, 

the steps are more combative than, the strikes coming in 

and ten times as advanced, how cool would it be to be 

behind anyone who swings on you , then counter from

there ,how easy would self defense be, ever do jurus 

in back of you or fire a jab cross over your shoulder ,

its not easy, without turning around,  no there might 

be taught a dozen ways of countering strikes behind 

your back as opposed to the countless thousands of

ways to  counter going forwards , but that's  where 

someone with excellent foot work will be , the back is 

one big target, now, who has the best punch who can 

hit the hardest , who wants to ever stand in front of 

anyone anyway , its just poor logic

  yet most of what you see styles training is just that,  mostly

because its almost just about as tough to get behind someone, as 

it is to never be hit, by anyone,  see  everyone wants to block 

and parry all the time when foot work does the same thing and

more , when it becomes the focus of training ,  its not who hits

hardest and fastest but who has the better hit ,  so , to get 

behind the strikes they must first somehow go around us,


like a good bullfighter has to know just when to step clear 

where a really bad one might try to tackle him by the horns

and then when you think you have fully mastered footwork, you 

can tie your hands behind your back, and wander into a local 

boxing gym, to easily impress everyone, around the world, on 

you tube,


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## infinite beginner (Mar 19, 2016)

So  someone , wrote in, a while back , on some minor binge of banter 

asking who, am I,  writing to here  anyway,  well how should I know 

why should they care,  I just write  go away , a mth or 2 

 come back and wtf  like a thousand more hits have appeared 

which always surprises me but never really should, if you know

what I mean, but of course you haven't a clue , the level from

which this is coming down  from, or not  to imply I am some  high level 

only by good fortune of a fair amount of quality exposure , which is neither

 here nor there, but what distinguishes the martial from other arts other

than its destruction 

  is its  intangibility , in the sense that it is perpetual , you

can't put it in a museum or capsulate it into this or that 

so its just a puzzle , and you get a formless, ball of confusion,

in your face  wondering just how many ways can one fall ?  just that

 its ten times better to have the other, trip over them selves, and 

tangle them selves all up, as much as possible,  trying to get to you, then

going and trying to make them make all their mistakes for them , 

to do this you need legs like a sidewinder , and geographical

strategy , or in other words, put simply,  how to seem here

but be there , and then when they go there, to be some

wheres else , and all you basically gotta do, is let their strikes  

go off  in one direction and their step or balance tilt in another , 

so its like they mistake a guillotine for a portal , you have 

to provide  your opponent happy healthy choices, they feel good 

about making, and seem like a very fantastic idea to them, at that time,

like blocking outwards or punching across their own  torso to hit you, kinda

 like a fish looks at a shiny sparkling lure never seeing the hooks attached , 

or the way a sucker eagerly jumps into  a contract before reading

the fine print, that is silat , in other words, fancy hands are for 

novices ,  but  fancy feet ,now you're  talking mad skills , what's it 

 matter what they know,  if you are not there,  and can give them 

nothing, that looks like, everything,  for so to be a good opponent,  

one must be very deceitful and extremely misleading,  so they must

think they are buying into a resort,  but all that's being sold is swamp 

land, but hey wait ,whats up with all that fancy dancy hands motions then , its 

almost  as if in silat  they want you see and be looking what their hands

are doing , could this all be a bunch of mumbo jumbo to take your mind 

off the direction their feet are going , it better be ,


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## infinite beginner (Mar 19, 2016)

why martial arts , number one reason, I imagine 

they are fun to learn and practice , gives the body

something challenging to do , either by getting better


or busy healing, and there's the comforting  feeling of becoming 

more of a bad *** and the always striving for perfection, settling

for precision, its the control you get that is,  in the accuracy 

 of the motion , and in practice   cant tell you how many 

elbows heard zooming under my ear as I'm falling and full 


power chops just glancing off  throat , as I'm standing  but 

how many words can't  we spell with 26 symbols ? in counting 

the new ones to come its safe to say endless , the ABC's are a small 


skeleton key for referencing a million things , that's how the jurus are conceived 

combined they should compile a million motions, you should look 

at all martial arts motions and say yeah we have that just like looking

at all english words and then saying yeah a to z that covers it ,  


or extend the arena watching any athlete move and saying we 

have an understanding of the mechanics behind and inside 

their motion , motion is motion , forms are a concept of motion


at the same time jurus are languages , that each style speaks 

their own of, all have elbows punches and blocking , deflections 

but were composed according to the level of understanding 

of its creator, like different countries have different dialects 


some may contain more letters or words than others 

some may say use it only the way it is in combination  

which is like having an entire alphabet that spells only one word  


so it better  be a good one, others might break it down into every 

phonetic variation , stressing certain vowel sounds more than others 

but the idea is to make a skeleton key that opens as many doors as

possible , the alphabet is not there to limit the amount of words we can 


know, , the alpha what, when was the last time we needed to reference

that to form a word , we don't have to think about letters when we got words 

why is that, all words are combinations  with no regard for sequence , 


so there are allot of reasons to hold interest in martial arts , from the 

purist  to the dabbler , everyone composes their own puzzle of it


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## infinite beginner (May 8, 2016)

Well, I've just been Sapu'd , Like never before by the least 

likely suspect no less , you would only think he was there

to help you , but too turn out to be so two faced , there 

only to soothe injury, not break your neck, when you least 

expect it,  Its Sunday, Farmers Market Day , slept too late 

 they sell out , all I could think of .need more of those great strawberries 

every morning first thing , I eat a couple, and throw a 

couple of smashed ones in my big thermos of green tea 

and honey , a few hours later the whole thing taste like

strawberries, a big basket cost like five bucks ,but can last 

through the week , these berries are solid you have to 

chew them . Looking at the clock , throwing on the first

 clothes in sight . The room was half dark,  bolting for the

door, less than a quarter second later  found myself flat 

on the wood floor ,so fast my right foot was out, and my

 left arm down to break the fall , flashing back allot of

mat smashing memories.  Luckily there was an orange 

on the floor and my left hand caught a piece of it , or I 

might have broke a wrist, In my head, I'm  thinking holysht !

 that was no ordinary slip.  Now for those any of you who are

 curious what it might feel like to to really be Sapu'd , and I've

 been perhaps by some of the best, All  you need , that is, the best 

Sapu simulator,  Ive' recently stumbled upon and would most 

recommend , something very low to the ground with about

 six wooden wheels,   Should have thrown that deathtrap 

away soon as

 it snapped off the little cart ,it was originally a part of 

that held twelve wheels but no, it fit in my back pocket , 

might be good to keep for when my bad shoulder is acting 

up ,  I think I threw the rest of it out when it broke , keeping 

only  one of the axles , what a mistake that was . the bumpy 

wheels provide soothing relief on  tight muscles s

 Turns out that thing is lethal,  and belongs secured to the wall

along with swords and throwing stars , and other dangerous 

training equipment  So I got up, WTFlying F was that, as my eyes 

traced the dimly lit the floor had to look no further, there it 

was, about four feet away , Now I remember it was in the small 

drawer I threw all my socks on the floor scrambling to find a quick 

match , in the flurry , and with them the roller cart, 

  The funny thing I'm not kidding , its a great training tool

too find and feel what its like to have the foot leg go out fat 

and slow on a perfect angle, A good Sapu takes you by total 

surprise and their is no counter but to go with it,  that's what it is, 

a game of ,Hey look what my hands are doing  draw high go low

 its in all the arts the   That was the problem my foot didn't just 

go straight up like slipping on a banana peel  , so happens it was

 there positioned to slide out at about a forty five angle or more ,

 that's what really leveled me out in a flat heartbeat ,


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## infinite beginner (May 8, 2016)

funny thing,  someone goes to martial arts to learn many things they

may not know they are going to learn, Like, millions of people badly  injure 

themselves, each year , by falling ,how many times has everyone accidentally

fallen far more times then they ever had to defend themselves you'd guess

  But it would be my guess that many of the more injured fallers were not martial 

artists , and that they probably fall much less than  average, the fact is a fall might

be more ten times more likely to happen than any form of physical conflict 

so we practice martial art so we don't get hurt as badly like everyone else falling

slipping slamming tripping stumbling banging and bumping over and under and into 

something all the time , On the flip side silat is learning to fall in a hard way, 

and when one has fallen countless thousands more than those who never learned 

too much of a good thing can backfire in a big way , and with silat  the sweeps 

allot of the falling is more a straight  down compression drop, Seems the more 

advanced the art , or artist the more vertical the falling is , which is why 

motions are learned big then they get so  small they all but disappear


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## infinite beginner (Jul 30, 2016)

So, 60,000 over a twentieth of a million 

now I gotta think up something to write 


 Find some common theme again and 

roll with it, was going to come on the

other day when I thought I'd something

to say , But now I don't recall,  One cannot  

have a lazy mind in silat , It is an art of great 

imagination, Techniques are like jokes,  Heard

Seinfeld do a bit,  in an interview, how when

when he once got distracted  fell off his timing 

 told the same joke, to the same crowd 

twice without realizing it, First time they were 

just hysterical,  second, not so much, Its the rule of 

element of surprise , He's thinking why aren't 

they laughing at my great witty clever insightful

humor , Even the top comedians can't get away with that 


Once was reading some funny lines in an acting class 

monologue, they were all  laughing  then I forgot 

about half way through went blank momentary 

stage fright whatever ,the teacher say okay go

back start from the beginning , I remember 

now doing all the funny material, and there

was one guy that still laughed , But he's not going

to be the one who tries to sucker punch us in a dark alley    


  Its the same if not worse with techniques , F techniques 

for self defensen Would  any would be offender to be expected 

to try the exact same combination of moves twice, in a row


 But look at most any schools window driving by that's what you see  

so its like  acting ,with one trying to pretend knowing its not coming 

as they perfect the move going back and forth, dismissing the crucial 

element of surprise , Like two comedians testing their material back

and forth ,  If someone walks  up talks to a stranger , do they know 

for certain  at all what they will say next ,  How many words begin

ABC  not many,  Yet the three letters are used in thousands of words     


  How many are as good as billy jack , who kindly outlines the details 

of a forthcoming attack, Not that many , So is the instructor supposed

 to provide hundreds of responses  to hundreds of possibilities in each

session, Yes, but most would be out of material by the end of the week  

and even  if they  were able , How is the student supposed to absorb 

all the material So practically speaking  Its more a teaching of a mindset , 

instilled based on the fact ultimately the student is on their own 

when they walk out that dojo door, after having someone alow

them to go through the motions of a few techniques for a couple hours 


  Take away the surprise element through programing rote repetition 

and its all false skills and pseudo confidence,  that's instilled, loaded

with ready reactions , How many moves are there in a chess game   

its like that, its not until you take control that you can begin to predict

the opponents next move , Its the moves we don't see that lose the game

when we walk into a setup that's when things fall apart,  Say the opponents 

gotta five move combo fresh from class up their sleave,  will we want to counter 

on the fifth or first move, which is safer to train for,  The class should be one

says to the other now I'm going to do a 5 move  technique on you , and the other says

no you aren't,  cause when you move I'm doing something unexpected, and 

changing whatever  you were thinking about doing  next, But no one would

ever master the techniques , exactly , techniques are all sold separately  

that's to say they have a cash value at the school , they make lots more 

selling word sentences  than teaching the ABC's , and now online gurus

pushing whole systems through  the monkey see and do method , 

when you gotta have correction and you need to feel the truth of

the material , its like you buy the mike tyson how to box set      

as opposed to standing in front of him,  Your lucky to learn 

much that will make you think you're more than half of twice

as good as you are from any video,  say,  in words what exactly 

does it feel like to have ones balance destroyed and ones foot

lifted  in directions it can not step  whilst being compressed 

faster than gravity will alow , directly into the floor,  Just so 

they know what they are buying online is entertainment 90%

and Silat  Training 10 %  ,if they are lucky , sure its fun stuff

and fun even to even think you learned something  real


   Silat is traditionally a precision practice made up of the 

smallest groups ,  who devoted most of their time to learning it 

as handed down ,  And oh while the  stuff might work splendidly on  

Rodger Dwaine Ted and Maria etc down at the school  The drunk 

Thai boxer after five red bulls , might supply a little different energy 

and remember "He who fights and runs away,  lives to fight another day"

Maxwell Smart,


  The value of a school is you can graduate to multiple opponents , to as

soon as you can deal with one,   start to deal with two, which is much different 

then maybe always deal with at least two, it can only make dealing with one easier


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## infinite beginner (Jul 30, 2016)

Cause once one of them gets a hold of your legs 

you may find yourself grappling with both which

aint easy The great gracie's don't even do that from

what I've seen, because wrestling two is practically 

impossible , Ground arts teach everything you 

shouldn't do for more than one, they aren't 

programed to block the outside stomps from

 the side that follow during their famous dives

and the big ground and pound mount pretty much 

all their positions  leaves them a sitting duck , for 

anyone to practice their soccer kicks at will, maybe

most any two amateur  kick boxers could take out

most any expert ground fighter cause their best stuff 

puts them in the worst danger,  A boxer would fair ten 

times as well as a  grappler against two opponents

that kind of thing we hear about happening  all the time

where so fast he knocks em both out on their feet

but many will still argue its good to know ground 

grappling techniques just in case there's only one ,


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## infinite beginner (Aug 8, 2016)

Isn't it just stupid to criticize peoples styles of martial arts ,

publicly . Well at least by name, to say  anything at all 

other than right there  on their mat is as ridiculous as 

it is meaningless,  So I'm just  watching this Kun Tao, 

over on the You Tube , doing one handed techniques  

and at first glance it looked pretty cool , deflecting 

a quick one two followed by a clothesline type take down  

all swift and easy, Then the  next time I noticed some thing

the feeder,  I guess to make it more fair, would drop his first

 arm to his side dangling , no where near where it needs to

 be to counter Now they probably  work this kind of a stuff 

back and forth till they are blue in the face,  and they are so 

overly  focused on their turn getting to be the one armed finisher ,

that they are too busy trying to remember to have their arm down, 

they don't know to bring it up ,not even to really counter but just 

to have it in the vicinity , should their mock eye poke be too close or

 whatever reason ,  when someone grabs your arm in class and sweeps 

you accordingly  to learn  the technique its their turn to do the move ,

 Physically the one who is the throw dummy , fall guy , is just there for

 the ride waiting their turn ,  but in their mind this their time to think 

about all the counters , This is when the imagination kicks in,  from the 

time you feel your strike affected  concentrating  what you can do to counter

 everything moment to moment , Then its funny how so many depend on 

one momentum to rush in for the throw down , no martial arts reinvented

 the wheel and there's only so many basic ways to throw a guy , any throw 

is a big motion when done with one move , can usually be  countered with

 one simple move and  all the steven segal etc 

  Small circle wrist tweaker's that only work once you get to  hold the strikers

 hand , Can you imagine to see that in ufc  , or tournaments  Heavyweight 

 throws a  fast jab  jab slip cross and wait no he's  airborne doing a 360  , 

and continues to be helplessly  flipped around by his wrist till he submits 

defeat , never see it , out of movies and controlled settings , its still a great

spectator art , to keep in a museum,  it still has a  lifetime wealth of study within it 

  So a more educated or realer system practitioner can watch any such style 

frame by frame and add in the missing moves where possible , So its still refreshing 

watching systems doing what they do,  even if the practitioner looks ridiculous  

beyond correction ,can still aptly exploit all the possibilities of countering,

 but what distinguishes styles who use the same throws is the set ups used to help the 

moves flow more efficiently and in the hardest way to counter,  some forget punches

retract and don't pause even that half instant to be grabbed or manipulated into any 

preconceived practiced  technique no matter how clever, Silat has their own  aikido, 

its just that it's more towards  back of the art


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## infinite beginner (Aug 8, 2016)

Yet seems in any situation or event, where the wrist 

does, present itself , or rather happens, to be captured, 

in the flow, Then all that  Aikido know how is

suddenly pure gold . But the nice thing is you don't

have to be an aikido locking expert to expertly 

counter one, Its not practical to practice countering locks 

themselves only their precursors . If you wait till the 

mortar is dry its hard to knock a wall down


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## infinite beginner (Oct 21, 2016)

Its not the best martial arts that train in a bubble 

that whatever the opponent knows,  is our problem

not theirs to deal with, the thing about silat I seen

since its relatively new and obscure, to the public eye 

compared to most, allot  come in bringing   solid

backgrounds from other martial arts, and see that 

silat is all about countering motion itself , any motion  

its not about a system you never step out of, silat 

is not whirling around like a tiger on fire waiting to 

get ambushed by whats up the sleeve a seasoned boxer  

no,  if its fit to be a superior art,  it has to be above the

other arts looking down always wondering WTF they are

up to, the mind is focused on silat but the eyes and ears 

are on whats out there to expect , can't tell you how many

black belts have been in classes , one new student after easily 

rag dolling him around half the class with silat ,mentions his 

black belt in aikido, we were just going easy bt its  just one 

example,  how silat is superior to all arts If a  teacher knows 

and studies the principles

and inner workings of every martial art out there, then  no matter what he calls his art

or school , the style will have that much more value,  it takes a few years to get most

 black belts with   silat it may take most  a few years just to ingrain basic footwork   for 

one how you going to learn it in its pure form ?  most incorporate it into their kickboxing 

curriculum, its a magical art they in add moves out of thin air who's gonna know , its very

hard to verify what goes back a century disappears back into the jungles , its a mysterious 

art alright , but you tube shines allot of light, and allot of shadow, but the cream rises to the top 

 at the end of the day it the last art standing , more important what teacher than what art 

if all the teachers were to perish today tomorrow there would be no art or so little of it 

like a puzzle with  a few pieces remaining, the students would become the teachers who

guess and get it all wrong ,  and pass it on a half *** art , there is allot of bad silat out there 

more bad silat than bad karate cause at least most know what that's supposed to look like 

where different silat comes from hundreds of different villages that allot of it now looks like 

bad karate or has been reduced down to sport kickboxing , there really is no such thing as a

good style without a good stylist to back it up , its funny was watching some  belt testing clips 

and it was easy to see the yellow belts bound for black belts some just gave it everything plus 

any added natural abilities they were already  way beyond the others ,  but its like hypothetically 

speaking if every student  is a  car you can only soup up a v w bus so much if in top fitness and

 naturally athletic physique , you're starting the race with a stock  Ferrari already  oddly enough,

 allot of the ma instructors also look like natural athletes ,  some are naturally quick no matter 

how much the  naturally slow  practices if the naturally quick practices same they never get close  

some are just stronger come from a lineage of muscle, its not that impressive to see guys that 

look like big hells angels leading a martial arts class , but then seeing the old natural ninety 

pound weakling  leading the group you know that its the art doing all  the heavy lifting,


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## infinite beginner (Oct 21, 2016)

was gonna  say editing timed out 

but then  seeing the old natural ninety 

pound weakling  leading the group that look 

like big hells angels you know that its the

art doing all  the heavy lifting,


----------



## infinite beginner (Nov 12, 2016)

Yeah so watching a seemingly impressive silat seminar 

old master stands there fast strike comes zooming into

the masters a bent elbow throw, fantastic , or is it ?

 lets see if the feed was not in violation , you cannot do an

A grade technique with a B grade feed , its like having the 

the soft ball pitcher from the team the bar put together 

or standing at bat before a  major league pitcher, no different

so I put it to slow motion the first technique , then magnified

the screen so all I could see were their lower half , and I watched 

only the feet of the attacking student soon as their step started 

I looked up okay hand has not began to extend , D  , so back to the

feet step half way there ,back up arms up still hasn't thrown the hit

Fail , whats he going to do next wave a flag here I come ,  by the time he 

throws the fast hard punch , he's sent a telegraph around the world 

in silat its taught you never telegraph what you are  really doing 

it looked like he really pushed off his back foot it was a powerful 

A grade lunge , but it didn't mean anything cause there was nothing

inside  it , it wasn't delivering anything but a mile wide warning 

yet looked high powered and full speed ,  and his teacher didn't

even let  him in on this very basic rule , maybe not to make his task 

anymore challenging , he was almost in range  before deciding to strike 

that is the master saw their whole mass moving at them in front of

the punch , so that negates the impressiveness of the magnificent

 counter down to near nothing , yet everyone cheers on, from now on

 anytime there's a fast  spectacular technique it stands to be scrutinized 

in such manner,  frame by frame ,  only seen them so that first move

curious now about the rest  passing the telegraph test , I'm sure they

know hundreds of  next moves  to do , but thats like knowing all

the territory on the other side of the big mote , if  you can't get across 

what use is it , there is no martial arts  without, everything beyond the

entry depends on the entry there is no everything after the entry 

maybe even no anything the rest is all wishful hallucination because

the entry,  first move,  is everything ,


----------



## infinite beginner (Feb 14, 2017)

almost forgot my password for a moment or two, 

why do any martial arts at all ? well seems to answer

that best with a question why  not ?  1 reason anyone 

except the pain and injuries ,  what is martial art ?

 its not like a painting centuries old that is the same long

after the artist, who painted it , in that sense does it exist

if all the martial artists were taken to another planet by  

space warriors , but who would that leave if it even included

 the worst with the best does't every one have hundreds of 

hours of video exposure, movies ufc tv etc who isn't a backseat 

martial artist these days , some walk away from just one 

weekend seminar and change their name to chuckie chan  seagal,

 or watch slow motion in slower motion episodes of the old kung fu 

series next day they are swinging a staff like the grass hopper was

shown by master poe , are they now a new  martial artist,  the point is 

sure everyone is a painter too with a

 brush  only their skylines look like 

blotches and trees like stick man 

octopuses, but who can't paint 

still who again would call themselves 

painting artist after a seminar or two

 Its an art almost without boundaries 

beyond concise definition , or a guy 

takes lessons for a few  years as a teen 

is he a martial artist for life now, maybe  

there exist no martial arts with out

the martial artist ,but what is the 

prerequisite for this wide spectrum 

  a martial artist is someone who laughs 

in the face of full speed force at their face

 and plays with it like a piro with fire like 

a lion tamer calmly taunts the ferocious

  lions, fact is they make it look like anyone

 can not be instantly eaten if they tried it,  

how much 


class resistance is needed to foil their every technique

 a beginner tries, if everything is fully  resisted

 nothing works right , but if it does somethings

 wrong , this technique has seven moves yeah

,boolsht , all have 1 the first  move,  theres is rarely

 ever  a hundred percent resistance except when 

2 students might get into a fight mode mid technique,  

it happens , in any class  though in the street its the norm 


 so how real it is is gauged by levels 

of resistance in training style ,to learn

 another has to let you do the moves,

 once you learn, their role then is to not 

let you, so a martial art , separates itself 

at this phase , you could 


say it starts with countering the counter  

realizing their counter is inevitable no 

matter the move, the newer students 

say what do I do now, exactly this is where 

it gets tricky ,where the art of it really starts

where it goes from checkers to chess, the expert

plans on your countering the first ten


or so things they do , automatically , though their

intent is its done in two moves or less ,  but 

for them the strategies, are two sides of the same coin 

though only most everyone may share the second.     

just as every chess players  goal is the capture of the king  

yet that is just the martial part , before the art.


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## infinite beginner (Feb 14, 2017)

the art must come before the martial

or its just kangaroo boxing and gorilla

rastling


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## infinite beginner (Mar 15, 2017)

Seems theres a big difference being a practitioner and a martial artist 

the latter requires an understanding of all martial arts , the sophistication 

doesn't exist in proficiency  of executing clever technique , but more of

more cleverly  countering them ,  being expert at ones art alone  does not 

make one a martial artist,  this is the homework , really who cares if techniques 

are effective within the style , there's no bad martial arts just bad practitioners

 but  most any   martial arts class training  will  make one  healthier stronger  and  more

flexible  ,  at worst they will definitely be able to run away faster and with better wind 

 after practicing  all those reps of fast flashy kicks ,  in class,    

even if that's all they do , but again , still the golden  rule of all 

 martial artists " never underestimate an opponent"  , no matter 

what they've  trained,  martial arts  styles are  all  connected 

at  the show down ,  every style is surrounded by all other forms 

  boxers strike like lightning , at any  standing  distance, so if A is a 

master grappler   and B a seasoned boxer   ,A has to get past the 

flying fists to even begin to do their thing  , that is the prerequisite 

to get to their grappling territory, and if  B has a friend quick with their 

 boots any where near its not going to go  so well  for the ground  

 expert , thats what they leave out in UFC  , if the minute they went  to

the mat they got kicked it would be a brand new reality  challenge , 

BUT GETTING PAST  a fast fist to the chin is the key that opens their  door

 likewise the boxer is  a stranger to the ground,  so the  most crucial  

practice  for the grappler is getting  past everything  they  do standing 

but do we ever see that , no  they  have one  standing attack counter

for every ten minutes of rolling around , oh they  are hell to pay 

good at what they do , in their element , but  their instinct  is

ingrained to  the  tackle  reaction , but  then  its  pretty  safe

to say you never want to box  a boxer back , what if  they 

are a savate expert , is the boxer going to  start with a kick 

it would be an unretractable  mistake . but the boxer  has

the advantage over both ,  at the  point it  goes from words

to action , cause where two face off  its from in  his  prime range 

blah blah , blah ,  hands rise Pow  !  how it happens , 

 so  ones silat  savate grappling  and  silat  boxing  and  silat  karate 

and kun tao counters,  must be,  at the top of the  training awareness .

but what do you style s do  pitched with a style that 's  focused solely  on that

tedious  ground sweeping,  ,  silat  would seem the closest thing 

if one  did that thousands of times a day they'd  be one tough mf 

for one just   free falling flat to the ground  beats the sht outta ya

then there's all  the endless spinning , and jumping up fast  seems

people  would remember to forget to go back to a class that 

did only that , before they can be  kicked punched or grabbed 

they are already falling and they only want the leg  on the way 

and let that ground  they thought their best  friend , become 

 their worst enemy  speeding  up behind them , as bad as it 

feels flopping  half flat to the ground ,its way worse  thousand times

to be ground swept  theres just no easy  way   to fly up and land 

a quater second later flat on your back, even if you go slower 

gravity is gravity , well this is one  martial art  that  would

have the falls catch up from all that shock  and self inflicted impact 

thats why all martial arts seem to have it , but not only it 

again silat  is  ground kinda art , so it shows up quite allot .

   So there's that to despair over , as well ,  so  an art is only

as strong as its holdup to comparison,  to see ones art  in

all martial arts is too have a very deep rooted  art  , then its 

not really your art  now it you owe so much of its understandings 

and practical applications  to all  the myriad of counterings  for  

other arts out there .   

   All  martial artists  on  a high level , are sharing in the same  art 

they all drop their students instantaneously  some a bit faster


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## infinite beginner (May 20, 2017)

since all martial arts are physics of motion 

physics of motion must be all martial arts 

all martial motions ,  rule one , across the

board , like rock climbing  or scaffold walking  

don't fall, rule two there's always  more than one, 

to kick you when your down 


  to rule three they always have a hidden shiv  in hand 

   can't train all the time in your style and expect to be 

exempt from the rules , can't say oh gasp they have a blade 

say  lets see yeah we did knife defense techniques  in last sat 

class after the grappling between the combo practice , 

   all that rolling bag work  training  calisthenics trading techniques

 back and forth,  all obsolete ,all riding now on recalling those 

few   training  techniques or those what if there;s more than

 occasional one classes  


 rule 4  no rules  beyond the doe  jo , to   rule 5 there are no blade counters 

for the ones  never seen , so here all those here comes the  blade now  trading disarms 

games or techniques are useless ,  say one joins a new ma club , one night  they lock the doors

hand half the class real  knives  and say ok slashing but no stabbing you know some one's  

gonna get stabbed  , but that thought alone facing the common great equalizer that  renders 

mountains of rolling and tumbling material pointless , 

   now the  ninety pound weakling invading  your space , has just turned your black belt pretty 

 yellow  and his little friend , cause there's as  the other we don't see  ,  who are  all armed too 


   Rule 6  when training always  be untouchable  ,  now  there's a  a  swell  set of  rules 

for  an ideal do jo , that is ,  its ones  choice we can train most or least for the best

 or the worst case of scenarios,  the choice is up the the various  style club heads , 

so we know   its not how hard one trains. or how smart one trains, or how smart one

 hardly trains, but how hardly one smartly trains the most ,


  just as every carnival had its magician , one  made his  lively hood  by slight of hand 

so  just what is slight of hand  trickery some call them the jurus ,  as once the tiger 

engages  his expectations,  are set,  in stone ., but no one's a real tiger wanna learn 

the way of the tiger get a play full cat ,  a clip , they put a small house cat up against a king cobra  

and  then a diamond back , snakes never had a chance, gotta small lightning quick black cat 

the other day it was attacking the string  moves that blow jackie chan out of the water

and  even put a great  Bruce Lee to shame


  once had a small calico cat  had her kittens between the houses  ,along comes this big skinny stray  retriever  

towards   the  kittens  , she got up on her back  two leg s with paws stretch wide and ran at that dog

 like a grizzly bear hor about ten feet , the dog  ran  when he saw that


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## infinite beginner (Jun 15, 2017)

some martial arts are Volkswagens  others are Maserati,'s 

only they  all come to the student unassembled in a box 

they don't drive out the dogo in a car the first day 

 and no one can put it together for  them ,   the teacher 

only provides the instruction manual ,  one cannot 

watch a video  and build a car ,  before understanding 

how the whole thing fits and functions together 

  the teacher can open the box  and spread the 

pieces and components out on the floor 

  the hardest arts have the fewest student 

not everyone can assemble a Maserati  

then after one does , that still does't make 

one a formula 1 race car driver,  you have 

to put the car together , before learning how

 to operate it   with any skill , many are so  thrilled   

just getting the   box  of Maserati materials , and the 

assembly instructions  they may not even 

open the box , how can one  teach amother how to 

build and fly their own  rocket ship until one has built one

and flown one themselves ,  then most will never be rocket 

scientists, that is it may take a plumber a dozen lifetimes to grasp 

the complexity , even if they are supplied the  material and instruction 

blueprints ,  in silat  you work with motions  so what ever motion come 

you welcome , the art of channeling and directing force  when it  comes in

you pull when it goes back you push you have to  use the force relish in it 

thats why the old masters  are  so hard to hit , and you never know what t

hey are going to do , because they  are  only  using what you do against you 

Ali ways the greatest cause almost no one could  hit him , no matter how strong 

or hard  and quick they punched,  because they   trained  to hit  ,  someone 

hitting them , not someone who trained how not to get hit  its much easier to hit 

than not get hit ,  if one was good  enough at it ,  one wouldn't  even need to  learn how 

to  hit ,  the art of evasion is much more complex  than  the art of confrontation 

of course its an imperfect art as anyone can get hit sooner or later ,  so both arts are 

complementary some just collect boxes and  are experts at knowing  all the parts

inside them  with ut ever putting anything together as knowledge only  guru's

or  just  blueprint robbers from the arts


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## infinite beginner (Sep 3, 2017)

seeing a technique watching a video greatest way to learn 

from a screen so easy  as  a b monkey do monkey see, 

can watch and practice a  thousand video techniques a 

day , and  when soon through  mail the instructions 

to assemble  the tight wire and  the unicycle arrives, 

  who wants to know the do's but not the don'ts as

first thing about riding a unicycle  you need a 

unicycle , or all those riding  techniques are 

irrelevant , 

 What it is , like one starts out with a big empty circle 

then fills it in with mistakes its easy to learn three ways to 

do a move in  six minutes , but its not the perfection that 

makes you fall off the high wire , I don't know I'm no unicycle 

expert  but it  seems there are allot more  things you cant do    

than things you can , to keep the wheel on the wire , 

  so its an ocean of error around  a deserted island of perfection 

say to take in  the moves is to know only one way to do it, that's

 the right way, we see it in a class looks easy enough try it and  

in don't work , the reason is simple lies in the principle of 

countless imperfect possibilities,  start with a rope end with a thread 

an expert knows most what they are not supposed do  the novice 

only knows what they are supposed to do  , so they fall off 

  like approaching  billiards all is organized and orderly then the

break happens all chaos breaks loose from out of the haphazard 

chaos, strategy  to align the strikes  sets its course and skills 

call all the shots,  its now a science a pool shark  sees no guess work 

its all mathematics geometrical physics , 

 so   learning a technique knowing  it and understanding it are three different things  

so what plus why equals how , all  the wrong ways out of the way leaves only the 

right ways ,  with always a better way so all techniques and arts  are incomplete 

  its like to know how to win ones argument one must know the opponents 

but no one knows what anyone will say or do next   this throws all the fixed 

techniques out the window ,  all technique breaks down to a conflict of 

micro increments,  of motion , every opponent creates new holes in the

technique theory  for applications to patch


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## Gerry Seymour (Sep 4, 2017)

infinite beginner said:


> seeing a technique watching a video greatest way to learn
> 
> from a screen so easy  as  a b monkey do monkey see,
> 
> ...


You have posted a series of responses here - all very hard to read. Why the double-spacing, no capitalization, and odd line breaks?


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## Reedone816 (Oct 1, 2017)

gpseymour said:


> You have posted a series of responses here - all very hard to read. Why the double-spacing, no capitalization, and odd line breaks?


Actually now is an improvement than what was usually being posted several years ago...

Sent from my BV8000Pro using Tapatalk


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## Gerry Seymour (Oct 1, 2017)

Reedone816 said:


> Actually now is an improvement than what was usually being posted several years ago...
> 
> Sent from my BV8000Pro using Tapatalk


I shudder to think what that must have been like.


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## infinite beginner (Mar 24, 2018)

If it was easy everyone would be trying to read it , why spread pearls  to 

swine ,  Oh wait everyone is trying only 68 000 or so swine  views 

too feel sorry for , having to dig through the labyrinths of metaphors

  But  then darn it all to heck !  

  Just wrote a whole streaming page , went and hit full screen gone 

 lost it all , now I gotta recall, it all , not worth it to me 

hate that  , Oh easy to say the 

same damn  thing but with different words , Why study silat 

seems its the most prone to deception style out there

with its origins tribally fragmented over vast  jungle

 islands  . 


Anyway seems the most likely to be about bulsht , it was 

practiced  not  called  silat  , but simply  survival  

  There are no rules , In silat fight club .

   Sht not even close to the same words I wrote before 

so what you don't know what I wrote before either 

I could say they were the same ,just like I can say 

say , Yeah this technique is silat  passed down out 

of the jungles of some island centuries ago ,  same thing

  Any way you don't go sign up  first then say now can I see the 

teacher , No  you see them  move , and you say holy sht wtf 

was that , If  you  see three or four big tough looking fckers 

wearing the same sweat soaked shirts , all be told to strike

them , with full force at once and a few seconds later 

he's standing there laughing and they are  piled and  

tangled on the  floor  also laughing ,  Whats in a name 

its all the teacher, then you have to wonder ? how

much is the art and how great is the teacher , if its a system 

of principles that require the most effect with the least effort

it might or might not be silat ,  Or rather one of its  many

styles  . Every torch passed down,  eventually becomes a candle .


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## infinite beginner (May 15, 2018)

Why martial art ?  we study and train for decades , confrontations last 
seconds , most can count them on one hand thats one 99.999 percent 
of the time training,  the  learning part  distracts the mind and allows
 the arms and legs to flail about  vigorously In short it makes us feel 
more alive, like any enjoyable athletics










  It tricks the mind into getting off the couch  because we are always learning 
once the learning current slows  the fun's over turn out the lights  , its one eye on
 the training the other on the clock. again , for one to declare ,  I'm a silat man 
 or a kun tao woman  or a karate whatever ,is to become victim to ones own
 limitations, some styles are shallow some are deeper , some teach more universal
 principles , like a race mechanic understands  how all  engines are put together
 the drivers dont   , observing every style holds  a potential stepping stone to better 
understanding  our own style  , there is only one martial art  , that comprises and
 contains   all styles and systems 




So some we have to  laugh at  some we  praise and  copy some we  examine to learn
 counters against . as long as anyone out there  is doing something tricky we have never
 seen there is something new to learn  .  Whether they know it or not ,  not as mere style  
practitioners  but as  martial artists, all are and will always be infinite beginners.


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## infinite beginner (Dec 23, 2018)

Happy Holidays How's Everyone


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## infinite beginner (Dec 23, 2018)

There is something very
 important now, to turn and
direct efforts and greater
focus of attentions towards.




 That being the   massive sheer responsibility
those with any direct line connectivity
into any rare traditional system, passed down
and handed up, through history,  bear to
keep the art alive.


How it is so vital to once the basics are understood to
seek and find some trusted outsider  to share all ones
 knowledge with, at every stage, the blessings and benefits
 are multi fold particularly in terms of the arts preservation





Any teacher whatever level only  requires one devoted
student to keep the art alive in them . as it demands that
one continuously go back and re examine all their teachings
from basics to present.









 Frail as each snowflake, is unique, fragile as a smoke-ring
around the dragonfly wing, well almost , You are the art,
You are a  fck en guardian of  the art. as You may need it
at sometime to survive, so too, it  needs you ,

for its continuance of survival  .



Say you and all involved in your system
crash-landed on the moon then the art 
,what art, there is no art, like no movie 
without projector,  kept alive only by the 
collective perfection of  each practitioners, 
best recollection.
,


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## infinite beginner (Nov 18, 2019)

some day might go back a read what I wrote  not today.  martial arts are visual

until the motions become invisible okay microscopic and internal in origin thats 

how a master can do in 2 or 3 motions what it takes a student to do in 10 motions

many things need to be explained just in order to see them . see a guy flopping around

in all directions  hear them all say yeah it takes over a life time study to learn it  all

like looking at the waves on the surface of the sea thats all you see yet  the depths are

unknown till you dive down  in to it only then can you begin to see into  the hidden depths  .

the deeper you go the more you realize its  bottomless . a micro universe an onion with infinite skins


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## infinite beginner (Aug 9, 2022)

infinite beginner said:


> almost forgot my password for a moment or two,
> 
> why do any martial arts at all ? well seems to answer
> 
> ...





infinite beginner said:


> almost forgot my password for a moment or two,
> 
> why do any martial arts at all ? well seems to answer
> 
> ...




right time 

right place

right structure

right motion

 only you choose / control ,  your timing , position , structure , and motion


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## Dirty Dog (Aug 10, 2022)

infinite beginner said:


> almost forgot my password for a moment or two,
> 
> why do any martial arts at all ? well seems to answer
> 
> ...





infinite beginner said:


> almost forgot my password for a moment or two,
> 
> why do any martial arts at all ? well seems to answer
> 
> ...





infinite beginner said:


> right time
> 
> right place
> 
> ...


Why are you talking to yourself?


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## Holmejr (Aug 10, 2022)

You should add lucky numbers to the bottom of you posts.


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