# Kicking and self defense



## northern tiger (Mar 30, 2009)

The general opinion (I believe) is that kicking techniques are not suited for self defense purposes, or at least not as suited as hand techniques, wrestling and grappling. 

As a Kung Fu practitioner I generally practice a lot of kicks and have used them both successfully and not-so-successfully. I believe that kicking, "on the streets", is a good option. Why? Because, you almost always wear very sturdy shoes when you are outside. This ads significantly to the damage you can inflict with a kick. A hard shoe to the leg, abdomen or head can end a fight quickly. 

However I do understand and agree that hand techniques are more suited for self defense as they are easier and safer to use.

What's your take on this?


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## Aiki Lee (Mar 30, 2009)

I would say that high kicking (i.e. kicking an enemy in the head) is not very practical though one could get it to work if it was set up right.

Kicking is very practical in martial arts. Stomping on feet, kicking the shins, groin, or even the chest are pssoible. If ya got legs ya might as well use 'em.


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## Big Don (Mar 30, 2009)

northern tiger said:


> The general opinion (I believe) is that kicking techniques are not suited for self defense purposes,


Ok, with you so far.





> I believe that kicking, "on the streets", is a good option. Why? Because, you almost always wear very sturdy shoes when you are outside. This ads significantly to the damage you can inflict with a kick. A hard shoe to the leg, abdomen or head can end a fight quickly.
> 
> However I do understand and agree that hand techniques are more suited for self defense as they are easier and safer to use.
> 
> What's your take on this?


Wait, what exactly is your take? You contradict yourself a bit there...


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## Shizen Shigoku (Mar 30, 2009)

A quick snapping front kick just below the knee cap of the opponent is simple and effective - takes practically no skill beyond accuracy, it's low and fast and hard to see or defend against, and the foot is off the ground for such a brief period of time that there is practically no compromise to balance.


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## searcher (Mar 30, 2009)

Kicking for defense can be very good, but it depends on how good you are at it and how hard you train it.

If you are confident in your ground game, should things go wrong with kicking, itwill make a difference in if you pull it off.   Kicking to the legs can be pretty darn good on the streets.   Trust me, a well kicked leg is not going to function very well and will help stop the BG.

But if you hesitate with the kick for fear of going to the ground, you will most likely end up there.   That is why you need to have a bit of confidence in your ground game or takedown defense.

JMHO.


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## seasoned (Mar 30, 2009)

My feet from their waist down, my hands from their waist up. Legs can be used many ways, sweeps, take downs, stomps, leg blocking, leg checking and bumping. I believe picking up the leg for self defense can be dangerous, but as mentioned above, very useful, and has its place. Most of the kicks done in sparring matches are not useful in a street confrontation, and some of the foot and leg maneuvers for the street, as mentioned above, are not safe or practical while sparring. Some of the best kicks, should be used, to disable your attackers legs, and take away his mobility. When hands and feet are working in harmony it is unbeatable indeed. :asian:


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## jks9199 (Mar 30, 2009)

Kicks absolutely have a place in self defense.  *SOME *kicking techniques are not generally wise choices, because they either open up the defender dangerously (high kicks that end up exposing the groin and back of the leg, for example) or are unsafe without sound footing that may not be available (some ways of doing round or side kicks, and high kicks again).  A few can be dangerous to do with the added weight of shoes or boots (some crescent kicks and some ways of doing round kicks) putting extra stress on the kicking knee.

But that's a far cry from saying that you're wasting time training kicks!  Realize the kicks that are workable for the street, practice them in a realistic manner, find out what you can do while wearing shoes, on different surfaces, at different ranges...  and you'll find that kicks definitely have a place in your self defense arsenal.  You'll probably find yourself relying on lower kicks (waist down), more direct kicks that don't require a lot of pivoting on the foot, and a smaller arsenal -- but they'll be there!


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## northern tiger (Mar 30, 2009)

Big Don said:


> Ok, with you so far.
> Wait, what exactly is your take? You contradict yourself a bit there...



Sorry, English isn't my first language so sometimes I make mistakes like that. I meant that "I believe the general opinion is that kicking is less useful in SD. However, I myself think kicks are great for defending yourself."

Sorry for any misunderstanding.


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## searcher (Mar 30, 2009)

Also try foot stomps, they are a very overlooked kick.


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## MJS (Mar 30, 2009)

northern tiger said:


> The general opinion (I believe) is that kicking techniques are not suited for self defense purposes, or at least not as suited as hand techniques, wrestling and grappling.


 
Whos opinion is this?  



> As a Kung Fu practitioner I generally practice a lot of kicks and have used them both successfully and not-so-successfully. I believe that kicking, "on the streets", is a good option. Why? Because, you almost always wear very sturdy shoes when you are outside. This ads significantly to the damage you can inflict with a kick. A hard shoe to the leg, abdomen or head can end a fight quickly.


 
IMHO, I think that kicks are fine in a self defense situation.  While some may disagree, I would stick with low line kicks vs. high kicks.  Now, someone who trains them all the time may have a different opinion, but even if someone can do them, I think that the surface you're on, shoes you're wearing, clothing you're wearing, all come into play.



> However I do understand and agree that hand techniques are more suited for self defense as they are easier and safer to use.
> 
> What's your take on this?


 
Why not do both hands and feet?  Its possible that you could injure your hand while striking, however, there're many options to pick from, ie: elbows, palm strikes and closed hand such as a hammerfist.


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## Deaf Smith (Mar 30, 2009)

Foot stomps, toe kicks, low front kicks with the heal, low side kicks, low round house kicks, 'charlie chapman' kicks. Yes there are several very good kicking techniques to use in self defense.

The real question is, how often do you practice them and how well have you developed power in them?

Just like punching or blocking you have to put alot of time to not only get accuracy and power, but speed and timing.

I honestly feel most people don't but any effort in low kicking. And I can assure you, a correct low side kick will break a two-by-four. And a low front kick with the heal can do almost the same. You just have to work on it alot.

Deaf


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## Guardian (Mar 30, 2009)

Shizen Shigoku said:


> A quick snapping front kick just below the knee cap of the opponent is simple and effective - takes practically no skill beyond accuracy, it's low and fast and hard to see or defend against, and the foot is off the ground for such a brief period of time that there is practically no compromise to balance.


 
Yes, my favorite type of move, as mentioned here, take that leg out no matter the degree.


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## Omar B (Mar 30, 2009)

Fancy jumping and spinning kicks are of little use unless you have the guy phased and want to make a point to scare off his buds.  Otherwise kicks to targets below the waist and hands to targets above, except when the opening is obvious.

Oh, and always wear combat boots like I do.  Best for stomping a mud hole.


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## Aikicomp (Mar 31, 2009)

northern tiger said:


> The general opinion (I believe) is that kicking techniques are not suited for self defense purposes, or at least not as suited as hand techniques, wrestling and grappling.
> 
> Nothing could be farther from the truth.
> 
> ...


 

Kicks used in the right situations are very effective, especially, when used in self-defense.

Michael


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## Msby (Mar 31, 2009)

As everyone here has said, low kicks are your best bet.  But don't forget that just about any technique can be used based on the circumstances.  By the way, I've heard kicking an attacker on the floor will bring about some serious consequences from the law. (dunno why you would if he's already on the floor...) Does anyone know what would happen if one were to kick an attacker in the head and cause brain damage, or kick them in the legs and permanently break something? Seems like there would be grounds for a lawsuit, even in a pure SD situation. Any thoughts on that?


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## northern tiger (Mar 31, 2009)

So, I see I might have been a little wrong about peoples opinion regarding kicks and self defense. Basically everything I've read: books, magazines, internet and forums, uses kicks very very sparsely or not at all.


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## seasoned (Mar 31, 2009)

Msby said:


> As everyone here has said, low kicks are your best bet. But don't forget that just about any technique can be used based on the circumstances. By the way, I've heard kicking an attacker on the floor will bring about some serious consequences from the law. (dunno why you would if he's already on the floor...) Does anyone know what would happen if one were to kick an attacker in the head and cause brain damage, or kick them in the legs and permanently break something? Seems like there would be grounds for a lawsuit, even in a pure SD situation. Any thoughts on that?


 
Discretion is always the better part of valor. When the time is right, you will know what to do.


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## Guardian (Mar 31, 2009)

Msby said:


> As everyone here has said, low kicks are your best bet. But don't forget that just about any technique can be used based on the circumstances. By the way, I've heard kicking an attacker on the floor will bring about some serious consequences from the law. (dunno why you would if he's already on the floor...) Does anyone know what would happen if one were to kick an attacker in the head and cause brain damage, or kick them in the legs and permanently break something? Seems like there would be grounds for a lawsuit, even in a pure SD situation. Any thoughts on that?


 
Why would you want to kick them while their on the floor, if you have them down, obviously you have ended or gained the upperhand.

As far as the pure SD situations, why would you give your attack your name or any other information for them to sue you, end the situation, call the cops and leave, if he/she is hurt, tough cookies, they should have not started anything.

Now of course, there are always circumstances to every situation and you have to weigh them into your situation and go from there, but my name never has to enter into any of them in my view.


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## sgtmac_46 (Mar 31, 2009)

Kicks can be very useful on the street......i've seen MT style kicks used to great effect against opponents in the street (used them myself a couple times......snap kicks to the groin and MT leg kicks to the thigh and calves).  

1. Those kicks should be targeted to points below the opponents waist, 

2. Should generally be kicks that don't throw your too far off balance.

3. They should be quick kicks that are pulled back quickly to avoid being grabbed or tripped.

4. You should ALWAYS be aware of the surfaces your are standing on (asphalt, gravel, mud, etc, etc) and how they will effect your balance when kicking.

5. They should be set up with other techniques so that your opponent doesn't know the kick is coming, and adjust for it, or attempt to catch it.

One should also remember that knee strikes are very effective on the street as they are in the ring.


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## chinto (Mar 31, 2009)

sgtmac_46 said:


> Kicks can be very useful on the street......i've seen MT style kicks used to great effect against opponents in the street (used them myself a couple times......snap kicks to the groin and MT leg kicks to the thigh and calves).
> 
> 1. Those kicks should be targeted to points below the opponents waist,
> 
> ...




I agree, I personally would sugest kicking ankles and shins and knees till softened up a bit then groin.  if you want to kick some one in the head, bring the head down below your waist to do it.  knees and elbows are great close in.

but ya I would suggest 3 or 4 hand techniques to each kick in most situations.  remember combination are your friend.  Also remember that INTENT is important to.  it should be to end the encounter as quickly as you can.


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## searcher (Mar 31, 2009)

The opinions to which you are referring are most likely from people in styles that are not particularly kick oriented or are by people who are not very good at kicking.    It all comes down to how much you train them and how confident you are in them.    The situation is going to dictate when/if a kick gets used or not.   And the target they will get used on.


I am just rambling, I have a million thoughts running through my head and I am having trouble sorting them out.


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## AoCAdam (Mar 31, 2009)

I believe practical front kicks and roundhouse kicks are the best for self defense on the street. Fancy kicks may work but put you at a lot more risk.


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## JadeDragon3 (Mar 31, 2009)

For real self defense purposes I would say that kicking above the waist is a no no.  I suggest keeping your kicks low, no higher than floating ribs.  Otherwise you leave yourself to exposed.


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## myusername (Mar 31, 2009)

Guardian said:


> Why would you want to kick them while their on the floor, if you have them down, obviously you have ended or gained the upperhand.



In my jujutsu class we are trained to demonstrate finishing any technique that results in your attacker lying on the floor with a stomping action attacking the opponents ankle as we are fleeing. This is to be used in circumstances where you are facing or could potentially be facing multiple opponents. It is a good way of preventing your attacker from following you and discouraging any onlookers from thinking they might stand a chance against you. 

Additionally just because your opponent is down does not mean they don't have any fight in them. If they are pissed off, want to harm me and in the process of getting up to get me then I have no problem with the idea of giving them a good kick or stomp whilst they are on the floor.

As for the legal implications, in England, if you can prove that you did this as you were in genuine fear of your life and that you honestly felt that the attacker or his friends would have pursued you, caught you and harmed you then you should be ok. That is my understanding anyway but I wouldn't hang around to find out.


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## BLACK LION (Apr 1, 2009)

Striking a target with the leg or foot is definately a viable option no matter what. Now this is dependent on targeting. I never kick above the waist . I only use the knee, thigh, shin, heel or the pivot portion under the toes. I never use the toes, instep, top of foot or outside of foot. why? there are 160 bones in the foot and the possibilites of breaking something is too great. 
I only target nerves or joints from the pelvis down, nothing else. 
Dont get me wrong, I can kick most people in thier face before they knew it with an array of different kicks but its not practical. Thai kicks to the side of the legs are cool but dangerous.... a well seasoned person will simply turn the knee outward and catch a nerve on your leg and poof you are now hobbling and off balance and in trouble...   I never kick on a pivot unless I am stepping into thier base with my own and there is always some sort of rotation.  So if I kick and miss I should still be where they were and same if I connect.  There is no elasticity at all...once the strike hits its mark its not retrated on bit... instead its penetrated through and the integrity f the base is still intact... 

Kicks and stomps are really great when they are down because all the upper body options open up... even then I only kick vital targets like the throat-kidneys-liver-spleen-eyes-ears-base of the skull-spine etc....


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## sgtmac_46 (Apr 2, 2009)

AoCAdam said:


> I believe practical front kicks and roundhouse kicks are the best for self defense on the street. Fancy kicks may work but put you at a lot more risk.


 Exactly!

I believe I heard Marc 'Crafty Dog' Denny refer to those techniques as 'Plan B Violations'.......I like the term, so I stole it.  

Basically a Plan B violation is a technique or tactic that, if it doesn't work, puts you in a worse position for having tried it.....


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## kempo (Apr 2, 2009)

seasoned said:


> My feet from their waist down, my hands from their waist up. Legs can be used many ways, sweeps, take downs, stomps, leg blocking, leg checking and bumping. I believe picking up the leg for self defense can be dangerous, but as mentioned above, very useful, and has its place. Most of the kicks done in sparring matches are not useful in a street confrontation, and some of the foot and leg maneuvers for the street, as mentioned above, are not safe or practical while sparring. Some of the best kicks, should be used, to disable your attackers legs, and take away his mobility. When hands and feet are working in harmony it is unbeatable indeed. :asian:


X2, I use my feet from the waist down and my hands from the waist up.


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## BrandonLucas (Apr 2, 2009)

I'm used to throwing higher kicks, and know when to throw them and when not to throw them.  They can be very effective, and often a fight ender, but it's all about timing, positioning, and circumstances.

I'm not suggesting that you stand a normal fighting distance away from someone and throw a head-level round house kick, and expect that to drop them like a tree.  More often than not, those kicks will be blocked.

I'm a bigger guy, so it works for me, since most people don't expect me to come from the angles that I attack from.  The best place that I've found to throw a head-level kick is when you are working inside on your opponent...not necessarily in a clinch position, but you are close enough to actually be in their "hoola-hoop" so to speak.  Throwing a well placed axe kick is really effective, especially when the other person is watching for you to throw hand techniques.  When you're in close, you can't see the legs moving very well, unless you're looking at them.

Again, though, it is situational.  There are fights that you shouldn't throw high kicks in, and there are fights that you shouldn't throw kicks at all.


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## Aiki Lee (Apr 2, 2009)

Msby said:


> As everyone here has said, low kicks are your best bet. But don't forget that just about any technique can be used based on the circumstances. By the way, I've heard kicking an attacker on the floor will bring about some serious consequences from the law. (dunno why you would if he's already on the floor...) ?


 
If he is not activly trying to cause you real harm, then such actions would be immoral.



Msby said:


> Does anyone know what would happen if one were to kick an attacker in the head and cause brain damage, or kick them in the legs and permanently break something? Seems like there would be grounds for a lawsuit, even in a pure SD situation. Any thoughts on that?


 
The lawsuit thing would likely be a problem only if you couldn't prove your life was in serious danger. If the attacker wasn't dead, I'd consider him lucky.


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## bowser666 (Apr 2, 2009)

I am going to jsut agree that kicking is quite effective in a street situation. granted they need to be low risk techniques and kicks that you have practiced 10's of thousands of times. Go with simple yet fast and effective techniques, nothing flashy ( spin kicks, kicks to the head etc......)


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## BLACK LION (Apr 2, 2009)

I see words like lawsuit and fighting and such... If it is not true danger then there is no reason to lift a finger to the other or others... It is our job as professionals to understand whats avoidable and whats not... 

Fighting still bears social and moral rules becuase even an argument can be considered a fight...  I am referring to combat...  not a wartime battlefield but in the actual instance of force-agression-or violence... All Fights can always be avoided its just a matter of ego... violence can be avoided sometimes depending on if it started with a fight or some sort of social interaction.... then there is violence that cannot be avoided...this is combat..this is where you act and thrive... only then...   

at that moment in time there are no legalities or moralitites... just you and flesh and bone that must be destroyed.. 

"A kick to the head to end a fight" is tip toeing around glass while sprinkled with pixie dust...  its fantastical to conceive but impractical in actuality...    the only time I would kick to the head to end anything is to end a life and it would be after they were already down from other injuries affectuated previously...    This is why I do not "Fight" people... and I dont let anyone drag me into a ''fight"... I act when my well being or the well being of another human is threatened and at that moment there is no legality or morality...  you have to be perceptive, professional and assertive enough to know the difference and act accordingly. 

If you decide to kick someone in the neck becuase they swung at you or cut you off or gave you the finger then thats your baggage... if you let someone coax you into a pissing match becuase he grabbed you womans **** and you haul off and kick him in his sternum and give him a coronary then thats your baggage...  if you break someones knee cap becuase they shoved you and punched you in the nose then thats your baggage...  

fighting is socializing and that includes "kicking, punching, wrestling or verbal threats and what have you... this brings along many legal and moral strings and pitfalls...  


self preservation-protection or survival is just that... and in that realm anything goes... there are no legal or moral boundaries 



 I mean no disrespect, spit or sarcasm to any of you all and I hope you understand that these are merely my own convictions


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## ares (Apr 2, 2009)

I have used kicks in a fight. When I do kick, I tend to stay away from round and high kicks and use direct kicks like front or blade. I've always used them low from the knee down because I find taking away their balance opens them up to a number of other attacks. someone throws a punch a quick front kick to the knee will change things a bit. As mentioned in other posts, a well placed foot stomp is useful and will hurt like the dickens. If you are being charged, then a blade kick to the side of the knee will end things pretty quick.


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## Carol (Apr 3, 2009)

BLACK LION said:


> Striking a target with the leg or foot is definately a viable option no matter what. Now this is dependent on targeting. I never kick above the waist . I only use the knee, thigh, shin, heel or the pivot portion under the toes. I never use the toes, instep, top of foot or outside of foot. why? there are 160 bones in the foot and the possibilites of breaking something is too great.
> I only target nerves or joints from the pelvis down, nothing else.
> Dont get me wrong, I can kick most people in thier face before they knew it with an array of different kicks but its not practical. Thai kicks to the side of the legs are cool but dangerous.... a well seasoned person will simply turn the knee outward and catch a nerve on your leg and poof you are now hobbling and off balance and in trouble...   I never kick on a pivot unless I am stepping into thier base with my own and there is always some sort of rotation.  So if I kick and miss I should still be where they were and same if I connect.  There is no elasticity at all...once the strike hits its mark its not retrated on bit... instead its penetrated through and the integrity f the base is still intact...
> 
> Kicks and stomps are really great when they are down because all the upper body options open up... even then I only kick vital targets like the throat-kidneys-liver-spleen-eyes-ears-base of the skull-spine etc....



Nice input.  I like the way you think :asian:


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## chinto (Apr 4, 2009)

BLACK LION said:


> I see words like lawsuit and fighting and such... If it is not true danger then there is no reason to lift a finger to the other or others... It is our job as professionals to understand whats avoidable and whats not...
> 
> Fighting still bears social and moral rules becuase even an argument can be considered a fight...  I am referring to combat...  not a wartime battlefield but in the actual instance of force-agression-or violence... All Fights can always be avoided its just a matter of ego... violence can be avoided sometimes depending on if it started with a fight or some sort of social interaction.... then there is violence that cannot be avoided...this is combat..this is where you act and thrive... only then...
> 
> ...



Look if you are in a self defense situation, I would suggest you leave any compunction and preferably most emotion out of it. Dispatch the attacker/attackers as quickly as possible, in such a way as the threat is neutralized and you are unharmed.
  Any fight on the street is by definition a SURVIVAL situation. do what you have to do to survive! there are no rules, lights, mats or ref! 

So any way you decide what you will and will not do, and how far you go in the situation.  you run on gut instinct that this is or is not a life threatening situation.  By the way You will also LIVE and DIE by that judgment and your choices that are based on it.


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## Ronin74 (Apr 4, 2009)

Sorry if I'm repeating someone else's opinion.

I think kicking for self-defense has it's place, just like any other technique. It all depends on the situation and how practical it would be to execute a kick. In regards to high kicks, sure they're typically not ideal to use. However, it doesn't render them as useless and not worth practicing.

For myself, kicking is one of my strengths, so I do work high kicks. However, when it came to working self-defense techniques, I don't ever recall throwing anything higher than waist or chest high (and that was only if the opening was there).


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## kyosa (Apr 5, 2009)

sgtmac_46 said:


> Kicks can be very useful on the street......i've seen MT style kicks used to great effect against opponents in the street (used them myself a couple times......snap kicks to the groin and MT leg kicks to the thigh and calves).
> 
> 1. Those kicks should be targeted to points below the opponents waist,
> 
> ...


 
I couldn't agree more! This is the primer in "street kicking" in my opinion. Keep it simple, strike hard and fast and be deceptive. Taking your opponents legs out takes his focus off protecting his head, takes away his ability to move and there is a surprise factor. Get his focus high-strike low.  Get his focus low-strike high.  In over 22 years of Law Enforcement I have been kicked once and had my foot stomped once. Otherwise most attacks have been punches of the head. 

Most street fighters are unable to kick effectively and most dont have the ability to defend against low kicks. And never underestimate the kick to the groin. It's the one shot that if your opponent can feel pain will get his attention very quickly and can end the fight (beware this can cause serious, permanent injury and even death).

Taking kicks out of your self defense arsenal would be like taking head punching out of your arsenal-why would you want to limit yourself and take a very effective tool out of your "bag of tricks?"


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## kyosa (Apr 5, 2009)

sgtmac_46 said:


> Exactly!
> 
> I believe I heard Marc 'Crafty Dog' Denny refer to those techniques as 'Plan B Violations'.......I like the term, so I stole it.
> 
> Basically a Plan B violation is a technique or tactic that, if it doesn't work, puts you in a worse position for having tried it.....


 
First time I have heard of a "plan B violation" but I like it and think I will using this term in my classes.  Thanks


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## jks9199 (Apr 5, 2009)

I don't trust kicks to the groin, unless you can reliable smash through and break the pelvis.  I've seen too many cases of guys taking solid shots and keeping going.  They may crumple down later -- but drugs, or just plain adrenaline & mad can get 'em through it.  Like I said -- if I am kicking to the groin, it's either a distracter and something else is on the way, or my aim isn't the groin, it's to destroy the pelvis to take away their mobility.


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## teekin (Apr 5, 2009)

ares said:


> I have used kicks in a fight. When I do kick, I tend to stay away from round and high kicks and use direct kicks like front or blade. I've always used them low from the knee down because I find taking away their balance opens them up to a number of other attacks. someone throws a punch a quick front kick to the knee will change things a bit. As mentioned in other posts, a well placed foot stomp is useful and will hurt like the dickens. If you are being charged, then a *blade kick* to the side of the knee will end things pretty quick.



Blade Kick ? Could you please post a good vidy link? Much thanks
lori


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## chinto (Apr 6, 2009)

jks9199 said:


> I don't trust kicks to the groin, unless you can reliable smash through and break the pelvis.  I've seen too many cases of guys taking solid shots and keeping going.  They may crumple down later -- but drugs, or just plain adrenaline & mad can get 'em through it.  Like I said -- if I am kicking to the groin, it's either a distracter and something else is on the way, or my aim isn't the groin, it's to destroy the pelvis to take away their mobility.




yep if i kick groin i will just about guarantee that real soon i will kick the pubic synthesis if they are not down already.  but i will kick knees and ankles and insteps and shins till that opening for groin and pubic synthesis is open.


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## sgtmac_46 (Apr 6, 2009)

jks9199 said:


> I don't trust kicks to the groin, unless you can reliable smash through and break the pelvis.  I've seen too many cases of guys taking solid shots and keeping going.  They may crumple down later -- but drugs, or just plain adrenaline & mad can get 'em through it.  Like I said -- if I am kicking to the groin, it's either a distracter and something else is on the way, or my aim isn't the groin, it's to destroy the pelvis to take away their mobility.


 If you're dealing with a drunk, there's always the bladder kick.


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## Akira (Apr 6, 2009)

To answer the OP, muay thai kicks FTW.

Used *very* successfully in many self defense situations to put someone down, or make them drop their hands letting you knock them out.  My shins are conditioned and I'd have to be really unlucky to come up against someone who knows how to block it.  Kick to the outside thigh...will put most people down with one or two.  

I did kung fu for a few years, I wouldn't use the kicks in a self defense situation.


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## BLACK LION (Apr 6, 2009)

If you have "kick to the groin" in mind while effecting a strike to the testes then maybe it will do something or maybe it wont.    BUT I have in my mind that I am going to give that man OVARIES and he is going to give me a somatic reflex which is going to set him up for further trauma elsewhere....    Sure, there are stories of people so high on pcp that they castrate themselves then proceed to prance around an apartment complex like nothing ever happened...AND stories of older ladies grapping a would be rapist and murderer by the testicles atwisiting and squeezing them all while being punched and thrown until this predator begged and begged to be let go.     
A shot to the groin is just that... but a ruptured testicle or a torn scrotum is much more than just a 5 minute break.  Even still, its not an end all resolution...its merely a step up the ladder of violence on to your next target and so on.  
A shot to the jewels is merely a social deterrent and not intended as a serious injury...    a torn scrotum or ruptured testicle is intended as a traumatic injury in a series of effects.  I have in my mind that every strike affectuated by me is an injury in line to the next.  

Shoving any striking medium into the testicles with intent to cause injury is going to give you an effect to take advantage of... however slight it may be, its there...   compromising one area leaves another one open... 
thats the chain of violence... its not dependent one one shot one kill but a whole chain of effects leading to total catastrophic failure.


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## hafoc (May 7, 2009)

Dropped a guy on the street once with a kick to the shins.

Also, I once dropped a guy with a knee to the stomach. That sort of counts.

Know of two instances where guys were killed by kicks to the head. One was a side kick, the other a round house.

Earlier this year, an 8 year old kid took out a pedophile who tried to kidnap him with a round kick to the knee.

Also, I know of instances where front kicks to the groin took out somebody.

So, I'd say the evidence is good that kicks can work for self defense. But they're like any other technique. Sometimes they work, sometimes they don't.


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## blindsage (May 8, 2009)

Be careful with a groin kick.  Take Black Lion's advice, if your going for it, make sure it's hard and it counts and that it leads to the next technique.  I've been kicked in the groin without a cup a few times while sparring with moderate strength kicks and kept fighting through the discomfort because that's how we were taught to fight.  Done the same with a kick to the solar plexus.  It might work, but it might not.  Commit to the attack to do damage, or at least be aware that a light or moderate hit may only receive a light or moderate reaction.


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## BLACK LION (May 8, 2009)

Striking with the legs is paramount as they are the strongest of body weapons...    I do not advocate striking above the pelvis unless its a knee or if they are on thier knees or on the ground...   Its especially effective on upper body targets when the threat is on the ground.   

I will say this... if there is a "leaglity issue" then it is clearly a social situation in which negotiation or evasion is a better option as physical contact is aviodable.....    
If there is no legality and this is truly a threat then you are at liberty to do as you please and should not be constrained with social or legal nonsense.


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## Daniel Sullivan (May 12, 2009)

Pretty much everything worth saying has been said, so I will simply add that I do feel that kicks have a place in SD.

I will comment that I have used kicks above my opponent's waist (and not above my own) successfully, but if my opponent is my own height or above, I tend to avoid them unless the opportunity is just handed to me.  

In my case, I can kick quite a few people in the ribs or chest and still not kick above my own waistline.

Daniel


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