# Things that make you go HMMMM? Pt.2



## ProfessorKenpo (Jul 9, 2003)

I hear this all the time and have been guilty of using the phrase myself years ago.   What is Black Belt behavior?   I 'm sure all of you have heard this phrase at one time or another in your training and was kinda curious as to what everyone else's opinion of Black Belt behavior is.   Is it honesty, integrity, physical skill, mental prowess, I'd love to know?   

Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde


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## Rich Parsons (Jul 9, 2003)

Clyde,

You forgot Respect. 

Soryy I could not resist. :asian:


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## Touch Of Death (Jul 9, 2003)

Self Control...        sorry, I couldn't control myself.


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## Seig (Jul 9, 2003)

about Black Belt behavior, Black Belt dementia on the other hand....


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## Kirk (Jul 9, 2003)

- The willingness to share knowledge.

- The ability to demonstrate without ever hurting a student, be it mentally or physically.

- Leading by example.  By this I mean if you're a teacher, you shouldn't act in a way that you wouldn't want your students to act.  I guess this would be more "instructor behavior".  And this is something that wouldn't be an across the board thing, since appropriate behavior is a matter of opinion.


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## MJS (Jul 9, 2003)

1- Setting the example for the junior students in the school.

2- Having a good understanding of things, and being able to help the juniors.

3- Not having an ego.  Its one thing to be confident, but walking around thinking you are the best isnt right.  

4- Being humble.  Don't walk around thinking you're the best, cuz there is always someone better than you.

5- Giving back to the arts.  After all, after you reach a certain rank, usually the way you get advanced is by the amount of time you put in and what you have given back to the arts.

Mike


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## ProfessorKenpo (Jul 9, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Kirk _
> *- The willingness to share knowledge.
> 
> - The ability to demonstrate without ever hurting a student, be it mentally or physically.
> ...



Instructor behavior, would that be different than Black Belt  behavior?     

To the rest that posted, I kinda wanted you to tell me in your own words, not say that I'd forgotten one, that's why the inquistition (but nobody expects the Spanish Inquistion-See Monty Python's Holy Grail).    I was looking for indidvidual answers that would somehow mesh into commonality because everyone has their own ideas about this.  By the way, no one mentioned Loyalty, why is that?


I've been told I'm not acting as a Black Belt from time to time and I'm looking for a way to generalize the traits by asking people for their own opinion so I may pass this on to students.   
Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde


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## Kirk (Jul 9, 2003)

> _Originally posted by ProfessorKenpo _
> *Instructor behavior, would that be different than Black Belt  behavior? *



I guess one wouldn't *have* to instructor at b.b.


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## jeffkyle (Jul 9, 2003)

> _Originally posted by ProfessorKenpo _
> * (but nobody expects the Spanish Inquistion-See Monty Python's Holy Grail).
> Clyde *




HAHAHAHA!!!  LOL!  :rofl:


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## jeffkyle (Jul 9, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Kirk _
> *  And this is something that wouldn't be an across the board thing, since appropriate behavior is a matter of opinion. *



Very very true Kirk!  And as Patrick Swayze stated in the movie Road House..."Opinions Vary".


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## jeffkyle (Jul 9, 2003)

> _Originally posted by ProfessorKenpo _
> *  By the way, no one mentioned Loyalty, why is that?
> 
> 
> Clyde *



I definitely believe in Loyalty...from both sides, giving and receiving.
But how far should the loyalty go?  If it is only one sided, how long should it continue before the other side has had enough?


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## ProfessorKenpo (Jul 9, 2003)

> _Originally posted by jeffkyle _
> *I definitely believe in Loyalty...from both sides, giving and receiving.
> But how far should the loyalty go?  If it is only one sided, how long should it continue before the other side has had enough? *



Now the discussion really begins, thank you Jeff.   

Wink, Wink, Nudge, Nudge, know what I mean.  Sorry, had to put that in there if you're a Monty Python fan LOL.

Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde


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## tonbo (Jul 9, 2003)

I think that Black Belt behavior is, in a nutshell, setting a good example for others.  It includes all the elements mentioned before, as far as things like modesty, courtesy, "warrior spirit", etc., but I think it also includes just being a good person/decent human being as a major component.  

No one likes an arrogant, rude or otherwise nasty Black Belt.  Sure, they are fun to ego trounce, but not fun if they are giving other martial artists a bad name.

As far as the loyalty issue, well.....that's gonna depend.  What's your breaking point?  I also believe in loyalty being two-sided.  If it somehow goes from being two-sided to being one-sided, the person doing all the giving needs to decide when it's time to move on.

Oh, and Clyde?  "Ask me the questions, Bridgekeeper....I'm not afraid!!"  and who could forget.....

"The Black Knight always triumphs!!"

Peace--


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## ProfessorKenpo (Jul 9, 2003)

> _Originally posted by tonbo _
> *I think that Black Belt behavior is, in a nutshell, setting a good example for others.  It includes all the elements mentioned before, as far as things like modesty, courtesy, "warrior spirit", etc., but I think it also includes just being a good person/decent human being as a major component.
> 
> No one likes an arrogant, rude or otherwise nasty Black Belt.  Sure, they are fun to ego trounce, but not fun if they are giving other martial artists a bad name.
> ...



I've seen some absolute terrible behavior at tournaments from judges, participants, and spectators/coaches when the rules clearly state what they were doing is prohibited.   Is what they were doing bad BB behavior by breaking the rules or good because they were supporting their students?   

Loyalty, it's always gotta be a two way thing, I wouldn't have it any other way.

In the immortal words of KenpoJoe,"The truth, no matter who it hurts, is still the truth".   Good words I think.   Honesty is, and should be, an integral part of a student/instructor relationship.   I've always told the truth and it's forever getting me admonished for not putting in in a more polite or respectful way.   Is that a bad thing, not to me, but it sure pisses alot of other people off.  Oh well!

BTW, it's only a flesh wound LOL.    I forgot the question, something about  Swallow and which was the fastest.

Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde


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## jeffkyle (Jul 9, 2003)

> _Originally posted by ProfessorKenpo _
> Now the discussion really begins, thank you Jeff.
> 
> Wink, Wink, Nudge, Nudge, know what I mean.



I was following you on that one....I wonder where it will take us.



> Sorry, had to put that in there if you're a Monty Python fan LOL.



Actually I haven't seen it, YET, but ALL the guys I work with are Big Fans and I constantly hear quotes from the movie.


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## jeffkyle (Jul 9, 2003)

> _Originally posted by ProfessorKenpo _
> *I've seen some absolute terrible behavior at tournaments from judges, participants, and spectators/coaches when the rules clearly state what they were doing is prohibited.   Is what they were doing bad BB behavior by breaking the rules or good because they were supporting their students?
> 
> Loyalty, it's always gotta be a two way thing, I wouldn't have it any other way.
> ...



Honesty is a GREAT thing in ANY relationship between people.   Yes sometimes it can be harsh, but at least people know where they stand, and how things are.
When you are in a position of teaching and dealing with people, I don't believe that you can pick favorites and put the rest aside.  Just because someone makes YOU feel good about being their teacher doesn't mean you should like them more than you do the guy in the back who works his butt off to become a better fighter, martial artist, person.
Your loyalty has to be the same to each and every student...you should give as much of yourself as you can to every one of them.  IF they choose NOT to receive it, then it is their problem.


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## RCastillo (Jul 9, 2003)

> _Originally posted by ProfessorKenpo _
> *I hear this all the time and have been guilty of using the phrase myself years ago.   What is Black Belt behavior?   I 'm sure all of you have heard this phrase at one time or another in your training and was kinda curious as to what everyone else's opinion of Black Belt behavior is.   Is it honesty, integrity, physical skill, mental prowess, I'd love to know?
> 
> Have a great Kenpo day
> ...



I agree with all of the above!:asian:


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## ProfessorKenpo (Jul 9, 2003)

It also amazes me how many posts get on the General Forum and how few people utilize the Technical Forum.   I  post here primarily for entertainment but the other forum is for thought and learning.   I'm always looking for new methods or theories but so few people post there it's seems there's no point.   Oh well, off to train now.


Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde


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## tonbo (Jul 9, 2003)

> I've seen some absolute terrible behavior at tournaments from judges, participants, and spectators/coaches when the rules clearly state what they were doing is prohibited. Is what they were doing bad BB behavior by breaking the rules or good because they were supporting their students?



Well, it's bad BB behavior, plain and simple.  "Good" BB behavior is to follow the rules because they are the *rules*.  Whether you are supporting your students or not, you should be showing them that, if you are at a tournament, you adhere to the rules; if for nothing else, out of simple respect.

But then again, that's me.  Everyone knows that judges are blind and deaf, and are never fair.  But that's the way it goes.  If you behave badly, it will almost never change the outcome, but it will almost always change the way people look at you.....and your school.

There is a saying I heard once, which someone said was Italian:  "A true friend is one who will tell you that your face is dirty".  Yeah, the truth can hurt, sometimes.  However, if the truth is not being told in a malicious way, it may hurt someone's feelings, but it might also help save them additional pain later on.  You can't always sugar-coat everything.  If you are blunt, well, that's the way you are.  As Dennis Leary said, "Life's tough--get a helmet".  

The questions from the Bridgekeeper:  

1)  What is your name?
2)  What is your quest?
3)  What is your favorite color?
  (also What is the capitol of Assyria?  and What is the air-speed velocity of an unladen swallow?)

Right, then.  Off you go.  And watch out for any bunnies with great big sharp pointy teeth!

Peace--


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## Jayson Barley (Jul 9, 2003)

> _Originally posted by ProfessorKenpo _
> *I've seen some absolute terrible behavior at tournaments from judges, participants, and spectators/coaches when the rules clearly state what they were doing is prohibited.   Is what they were doing bad BB behavior by breaking the rules or good because they were supporting their students?
> 
> Loyalty, it's always gotta be a two way thing, I wouldn't have it any other way.
> ...



Bad behavior is bad behavior, it doesn't matter why you are doing it. If you don't like the rules then don't participate.

Regarding truth there are ways of stating the truth without hurting someone. There is a difference beteween:

"That technique sucks"
and 
"You should work on this technique more"


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## Brother John (Jul 9, 2003)

I agree that a certain level of maturity and excellence of character should be indicative of a Black Belt practitioner.... but I also try to get it across to my students that that same high level of behavior starts at white belt.... it's just that it's more a prerequisite for Black in my eyes.
Ya don't have to be perfect, but you must be trying.
_______________________________________________

"One minute their all 'Please and thankyou', the next they'll kick you in the teeth!"

((a dollar to the one who identifies the scene of this more obscure Monty-Python line...))


Your Brother
John


do what john
do what john
with what
with whom and when???


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## jdmills (Jul 9, 2003)

After the post regarding maturity I can't help but ask:

"Where'd you get those coconuts?"


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## twinkletoes (Jul 9, 2003)

As my instructor used to say to beginners, "Training for black belt starts now."  There is no point in waiting until you are a brown belt.  Emulate the people you want to be like NOW.  It doesn't even matter what you are trying to emulate:  the way your instructor moves, the way a black belt acts, the way your friend deals with stress, etc.  Don't spend white belt emulating yellow belts, then spend yellow belt emulating orange belts:  that's the slow way.  Start by trying to be like the black belts from day one.

Re:  Loyalty.  This is a tough one.  Loyalty is important, but it should not limit growth.  There is a balance to be struck between respect for superiors and loyalty to art and school, as well as freedom of expression and growth.  I think that so far as the boundary of respect is maintained, loyalty is upheld.

And what is black belt behavior?  Humility, from the realization that you are always learning, and you are always a student.

~TT


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