# Any OhDoKwan connections here?



## toddfletcher (Mar 16, 2015)

Although I say 'TaeKwonDo' (or even Karate) when speaking to lay-peoples about what style of martial arts I train in, I actually train in Oh Do Kwan. My master is Grandmaster Kevin Kim of Oh Do Kwan.

Grandmaster Kevin Kim was the 4th ‘head’ of the civil annex in Seoul Korea before moving to the United States. He has trained me to my 4th Dan.

I wanted to know if there was anyone else here who also identified with Oh Do Kwan. From my recent internet searches, it seems more ITF schools identify with OhDoKwan.

TIA.


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## chrispillertkd (Mar 18, 2015)

Mr. Fletcher, I imagine that most if not all ITF members would identify themselves somewhat with the Oh Do Kwan because of their connection to Gen. Choi. This isn't the same thing as claiming membership in the ODK just that we acknowledge our relationship to the Kwan he founded.

I know there is one member of MT that is certified directly through the Oh Do Kwan. You might want to send "Spookey" a PM if you're interested in speaking with him about the Oh Do Kwan. 

Also, I'd be very interested in hearing what, if anything, your own instructor has said regarding Gen. Choi; GM Nam, Tae Hi; GM Woo, Jong Lim or any of the other ODK pioneers.

Pax,

Chris


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## toddfletcher (Mar 18, 2015)

Thank you Chris! I'll PM Spookey and see what results.
I'll ask him about the ODK pioneers when I talk to him next and pass on any information I can glean.
He has spoken about bringing the HQ for ODK to the united states, but I'm not sure how far along that has come.

Here is a picture of him in the Seoul kwan from when he headed it years ago that he gave me to hang in my Dojang.


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## Earl Weiss (May 4, 2015)

Yes, General Choi founded the ODK and used it to develop and implement the Chang Hon System which is the only system used by the ITFs and many who can trace their roots tom an ITF or Chang Hon system. As a result any Chang Hon Practitioner has an ODK connection.


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## toddfletcher (May 4, 2015)

Thanks for the reply Earl. 

Here's a questions I've discussed with several other practitioners. I find it interesting that the co-founders of the Oh-Do Kwan almost all went on the assist in the founding of the ITF. However the Oh-Do Kwan is listed along with the other kwans to have dissolved to form the Kukkiwon. 

The reason I bring this up is that ITF or Kukkiwon, it is still TKD. I would like to see the line thinned out that separates us TKD practitioners. I have studied the Chang Hun Tul, Palgwe, & Taeguek. I even had some ATA guys train Songahm forms with me. Although I haven't dedicated enough to them to really 'own' them. I've practiced several different styles of sparring including the Olympic styles. I really consider it all to be facets of the same MA. I am a 4th dan under ODK.

I have also studied other arts, and this separation in TKD doesn't seem to benefit the art.

Anyone else agree?


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## Dirty Dog (May 4, 2015)

toddfletcher said:


> Thanks for the reply Earl.
> 
> Here's a questions I've discussed with several other practitioners. I find it interesting that the co-founders of the Oh Do Kwan almost all went on the assist in the founding of the ITF. However the Oh-Do Kwan is listed along with the other kwans to have dissolved to form the Kukkiwon.



Hardly a unique situation. During the early, tempestuous days of the unification movement, there were a number of fractures in the kwans. In the cases of both the Oh Do Kwan and the Moo Duk Kwan, the founders split off from the unification movement. And in both cases there were at least some kwan members who chose to stay with the unification movement. 



toddfletcher said:


> The reason I bring this up is that ITF or Kukkiwon, it is still TKD. I would like to see the line thinned out that separates us TKD practitioners. I have studied the Chang Hun Tul, Palgwe, & Taeguek. I even had some ATA guys train Songahm forms with me. Although I haven't dedicated enough to them to really 'own' them. I've practiced several different styles of sparring including the Olympic styles. I really consider it all to be facets of the same MA. I am a 4th dan under ODK.
> 
> I have also studied other arts, and this separation in TKD doesn't seem to benefit the art.
> 
> Anyone else agree?



The Borg...errr.... Kukkiwon.... would very much like to absorb all other styles of TKD. While I agree that it's all TKD, I also think that there is more than one way to practice TKD, and that this diversity is a good thing. It would be nice to have more unity, I do not think that a single overriding organization with a single curriculum would be a good thing for TKD as a whole.


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## Earl Weiss (May 5, 2015)

toddfletcher said:


> Thanks for the reply Earl.
> 
> ..................... I find it interesting that the co-founders of the Oh-Do Kwan almost all went on the assist in the founding of the ITF.
> ......................I have also studied other arts, and this separation in TKD doesn't seem to benefit the art.
> ...



The Oh Do Kwan had only one founder, although it did have several noteables who assisted the founder in developing the Chang Hon system.

Having a single established system  versus welcoming many.   At the same time it's greatest strength yet a weakness and vica versa.

Having a single system is a strentgh that allows an art to spread by being taught on a wide scale with practitioners being able to step on the floor anywhere in the world and fit right in.  This is what the formation and foundations of Judo, Shotokan and what  Taekwon-Do was all about.  However, the exclusionary practices limit growth and was also a great weakness.   Contrast KKW and Taekwondo which welcomed many sysems originaly and certified people of rank in many systems. This was a great strength yet at the same time a great weakness because a KKW (or early days WTF) Dan holder could walk into another KKW / WTF gym and know little or nothing of the sytem.   Now, after garnong many under it's umbrella KKW has for the last many years apparently only been certifying Dan grades under a single system (exceptions may apply)


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## IcemanSK (Jul 8, 2015)

There are folks who still maintain ODK connections in Korea and have Kukkiwon affiliation, also. They have no connections with Chang Hon TKD at this point. There is a sister school to mine that claims ODK & KKW about 3 hours from me. They talk about General Choi as Founder, and other ODK links, yet they are Kukkiwon, as well. 

These folks are certainly out there, but these pockets of ODK connected with Kukkiwon, but not current ITF style (or Chang Hon tul) are quite rare at this point.


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