# Pin Sun



## wckf92 (Sep 15, 2016)

Where, besides the Boston area, is Pin Sun taught in the USA?

Also, I saw this poem on Jim Roselando's site and figured I'd post it here for discussion. 

The paragraph above the poem mentions their core being "12 hands of Leung Jan". On this post or maybe another, Nobody Important mentioned something about the original system being just a collection of a few loose techniques... I wonder if these 12 Hands of Leung Jan are similar or...?

A question for KPM: third line in poem: what is Som Gin Choi?


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## Nobody Important (Sep 15, 2016)

wckf92 said:


> Where, besides the Boston area, is Pin Sun taught in the USA?
> 
> Also, I saw this poem on Jim Roselando's site and figured I'd post it here for discussion.
> 
> ...


The "12 Hands of Leung Jan" are just that, his 12 hands. Are they based on the original San Sik system of Leung Li Tai? Probably, but others have "Ancestral" loose techniques as well, which undoubtedly differ. Theory wise I'm sure that they are similar.

Som Gin Choi is 3 Arrow Cut (Punch).


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## wckf92 (Sep 15, 2016)

Nobody Important said:


> The "12 Hands of Leung Jan" are just that, his 12 hands. Are they based on the original San Sik system of Leung Li Tai? Probably, but others have "Ancestral" loose techniques as well, which undoubtedly differ. Theory wise I'm sure that they are similar.
> 
> Som Gin Choi is 3 Arrow Cut (Punch).




Like this list may be Yip Man's "18 hands"? 

http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?16695-Yip-Man-18-Sup-baat-San-Sao


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## Nobody Important (Sep 15, 2016)

wckf92 said:


> Like this list may be Yip Man's "18 hands"?
> 
> http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?16695-Yip-Man-18-Sup-baat-San-Sao


Yes very much so, you also have Kulo 40 Points, Sum Neng 12 Hands, Yuen Family San Sik etc. All vary in detail and theory but are largely based on the same concept.


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## wckf92 (Sep 15, 2016)

Nobody Important said:


> Yes very much so, you also have Kulo 40 Points, Sum Neng 12 Hands, Yuen Family San Sik etc. All vary in detail and theory but are largely based on the same concept.



Cool. Thx man!


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## KPM (Sep 15, 2016)

Nobody Important said:


> The "12 Hands of Leung Jan" are just that, his 12 hands. Are they based on the original San Sik system of Leung Li Tai? Probably, but others have "Ancestral" loose techniques as well, which undoubtedly differ. Theory wise I'm sure that they are similar.
> 
> Som Gin Choi is 3 Arrow Cut (Punch).



The poem is listing each of the short sets of Pin Sun as a mneumonic device.  Saam Gin Choi is indeed "three arrow punch", the name of one of the sets.  Interestingly enough, this the set where you learn the Gwai Ma stance that was mentioned in one of the other threads here.  It is called "three arrows" because the set has 3 punches, all of which are very straight...like a shot arrow.  First is a straight punch with a full body pivot.  This is a long range power punch and also found in the initial 12 short sets in Sum Nun Wing Chun. Second is a punch that drops straight down.  This can be done with the Gwai Ma as a level  change, or not.  It defends against straight kicks by dropping a painful punch straight down on the lower leg rather than trying to block the kick.  It can also be a straight shot to the groin as you drop under an opponent's attack.  The third punch is the rising punch which travels directly from this low position straight up as you rise up in your stance.  Its the same punch as found at the end of the Ip Man Chum Kiu form. 

Boston is the mecca for Pin Sun.  It is taught at 2 different MMA gyms there as well as at least one other private school location.  I've been teaching it to a couple of people here in the D.C. area.  I don't really know of anyone else teaching in the US.  But most of the Pin Sun guys keep a pretty low profile.  I'm probably the big mouth of the group.


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## wckf92 (Sep 16, 2016)

KPM said:


> The poem is listing each of the short sets of Pin Sun as a mneumonic device.  Saam Gin Choi is indeed "three arrow punch", the name of one of the sets.  Interestingly enough, this the set where you learn the Gwai Ma stance that was mentioned in one of the other threads here.  It is called "three arrows" because the set has 3 punches, all of which are very straight...like a shot arrow.  First is a straight punch with a full body pivot.  This is a long range power punch and also found in the initial 12 short sets in Sum Nun Wing Chun. Second is a punch that drops straight down.  This can be done with the Gwai Ma as a level  change, or not.  It defends against straight kicks by dropping a painful punch straight down on the lower leg rather than trying to block the kick.  It can also be a straight shot to the groin as you drop under an opponent's attack.  The third punch is the rising punch which travels directly from this low position straight up as you rise up in your stance.  Its the same punch as found at the end of the Ip Man Chum Kiu form.
> 
> Boston is the mecca for Pin Sun.  It is taught at 2 different MMA gyms there as well as at least one other private school location.  I've been teaching it to a couple of people here in the D.C. area.  I don't really know of anyone else teaching in the US.  But most of the Pin Sun guys keep a pretty low profile.  I'm probably the big mouth of the group.


Thx for the info kpm!
So have you completed your pin sun training and are now an authorized instructor under Jim?

Sent from my SM-T713 using Tapatalk


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## KPM (Sep 16, 2016)

I am an instructor under Henry Mui.  To be a full "Sifu" under him you also have to complete their pole training.  And he charges a lot of money to get that level.  Honestly, I have seen their pole and was not impressed.  The Tang Yik pole is far better, which is why I have never bothered to go the next step in Pin Sun.  Jim was my first teacher.  The empty hand portion (which is 95% of the system) is often divided into 3 levels.  I learned the first 2 levels very well from Jim.  Then we split and it wasn't until years later I went back to Boston to tune up my level 1 and level 2 and learn the 3rd level from Marc Kenney.  Both Marc and Jim are senior students of Henry Mui.  While training with Marc, Sifu Mui would drop in and watch and make corrections.  While he didn't formally "test" me or anything like that, he was checking in and watching me and gave his approval and it was him that issued and signed my instructor certificate.  But my direct instructors have been Jim Roselando and Marc Kenney. 

Where do you live wck92?  If you are truly interested in Pin Sun Wing Chun, you could pay me a visit.


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## Jsunlx (Feb 28, 2017)

Hey KPM,

Why did you split with Jim, and how much time did you actually train with him? To my understanding, in Pin Sun, the first two levels is the equivalent of SLT and CK.

Also, how much time did you train with Marc?

Did you actually get to train hands on with Mui Sifu?

Just curious.


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## Jsunlx (Feb 28, 2017)

KPM said:


> I am an instructor under Henry Mui.  To be a full "Sifu" under him you also have to complete their pole training.  And he charges a lot of money to get that level.  Honestly, I have seen their pole and was not impressed.  The Tang Yik pole is far better, which is why I have never bothered to go the next step in Pin Sun.  Jim was my first teacher.  The empty hand portion (which is 95% of the system) is often divided into 3 levels.  I learned the first 2 levels very well from Jim.  Then we split and it wasn't until years later I went back to Boston to tune up my level 1 and level 2 and learn the 3rd level from Marc Kenney.  Both Marc and Jim are senior students of Henry Mui.  While training with Marc, Sifu Mui would drop in and watch and make corrections.  While he didn't formally "test" me or anything like that, he was checking in and watching me and gave his approval and it was him that issued and signed my instructor certificate.  But my direct instructors have been Jim Roselando and Marc Kenney.
> 
> Where do you live wck92?  If you are truly interested in Pin Sun Wing Chun, you could pay me a visit.




Hey KPM,

Why did you split with Jim, and how much time did you actually train with him? To my understanding, in Pin Sun, the first two levels is the equivalent of SLT and CK.

Also, how much time did you train with Marc?

Did you actually get to train hands on with Mui Sifu?

Just curious.


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## kfpanda (Feb 3, 2022)

can someone comment on this persons technique and pin sun style?





						San Diego Wing Chun Kuen (@sandiegowingchunkuen) • Instagram photos and videos
					






					www.instagram.com
				




the videos of the workouts.


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