# Weapons and behavior



## jks9199 (Jul 19, 2013)

Do you carry weapons routinely?  Does it shape your behavior?  Do you go places you might not ordinarily -- or avoid places that you wouldn't if unarmed?  Is it different with different weapons, like legally carrying a gun or a knife?  What about if the knife is really more tool than weapon?


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## Carol (Jul 19, 2013)

Oooh, great topic!  

Can't add much now, but I will say that I have had friends who have said to my face that they won't come visit me because NH didn't have reciprocity that honored their CCW.


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## Kurai (Jul 19, 2013)

*Great topic!*

Do you carry weapons routinely?  Yes.

Does it shape your behavior?   Absolutely.   I go out of my way to be even more polite to people.  Whether behind the wheel, or on foot.  

Example:  I had a guy tailgating me on the freeway recently.  Instead of being upset about it, when opportunity availed itself, I changed lanes.  He then tailgated another individual.  At the exit, while waiting for the light, the woman driving the vehicle being tailgated, started to get out of her vehicle to confront the individual.  At this point I am behind the tailgater.  I had descriptions of both vehicles and the tailgater's license plate.  I grabbed my phone, prepared to call 911, but didn't have to.  Light turned green and the situation dissolved.  Driver got back into her vehicle and went on with her day as did the tailgater.  In the past I'd probably been pondering following the route of confronting the individual.  

I think getting out of my vehicle, would have only helped make a bad situation worse.  I might have been perceived as assisting one party or the other, making someone feel "outnumbered", leading to a potentially bad situation becoming worse.


Do you go  places you might not ordinarily -- or avoid places that you wouldn't if  unarmed?  No

Is it different with different weapons, like legally carrying  a gun or a knife?

No.  Makes no difference for me whether it is one, the other of both.

What about if the knife is really more tool than  weapon?  The knife I carry has a seat-belt cutter and glass breaker.  I switched the style of knife after reading about a child burning to death in a car after an accident.  No one had anything to cut the seat-belt or car seat straps to get her out in time.


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## Steve (Jul 19, 2013)

jks9199 said:


> Do you carry weapons routinely?  Does it shape your behavior?  Do you go places you might not ordinarily -- or avoid places that you wouldn't if unarmed?  Is it different with different weapons, like legally carrying a gun or a knife?  What about if the knife is really more tool than weapon?


Personally, I tend to believe that to be true in many facets of life.  For example, I tend to believe that people who drive "safe" cars (ie, large SUVs and Volvos) tend to be the least attentive drivers on the road.  I've driven small cars all my life, and love the deathtrap... I mean, Air Cooled VWs.  I've had several Beetles, Super Beetles and Karmann Ghias, and they weren't all that safe.  But as a result, I drive carefully.  I rarely speed, always let people in and leave plenty of room between my car and the one in front of me.

I went to Garfield HS in Seattle and didn't carry a weapon.  Like my dad (or maybe because of him, I guess), I believed that the guys who had the weapons would eventually end up finding a place to use them.  As I said in another thread, I was a troublemaker as a kid, skipped a lot of school and hung out with kids whom I probably was better off avoiding.  I saw a lot of guys put themselves in situations they could have avoided because they were overly confident, whether because they were armed or because they just thought they were tough (or both).  

I think that some guys use knives as tools, and that's different.


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## jks9199 (Jul 19, 2013)

In the book *Tunnel In The Sky*, Robert Heinlein has a character who is a company commander of a group of soldiers that seem maybe equivalent to Rangers or Force Recon.  She is giving her brother advice the night before his field survival test, where they drop the students on a planet with only what they choose to carry, and will pick them up after a predetermined time.  Passing is making it to pickup...  Well -- she tells her brother about how she'll send her troops out to do recon...  Not with the massive future armory that they could provide, but with pretty much nothing but a knife.  Why?  Because guns make you overconfident, but being all but naked and armed only with a knife keeps you cautious and feeling small.

I carry a gun pretty much anytime I leave the house.  It's a professional habit.  When I first started, I didn't always.  Honestly, carrying can be a pain.  Guns get heavy and uncomfortable, and you have to think about whether it's showing when you're out and about.  (For civilian CCW folks, there are also places that they can't go, where I can with my badge.  They can still ask me to leave -- but I can ignore the signs.)  I began carrying during the DC area sniper incident, because I regularly drove through the scene of several of the shootings, and may have missed one by minutes.  The thought that I might have been there, and unable to act because I didn't have the tools of my trade became unthinkable.  

I also carry a knife.  It's generally used as a string cutter, letter opener, box opener, and what-have-you tool.  But it'll do the job, and I know how to deploy and use it.

So... has carrying a weapon changed my behavior?  Almost certainly.  Some time back, my wife and I were walking into a mall, pushing our son in a stroller.  Someone came around a corner with their head up their ***, and nearly hit us.  They also nearly got a face full of Glock .40 barrel.  That's part of my reaction.  When I got a chance to train with Rory Miller earlier this year, I wore a blue gun throughout the training.  It meant I had to be cognizant of grabs and attempts to disarm it -- and that I had kind of an ultimate trump card in some cases.  Yeah -- it changed the game sometimes.   And it has definitely changed how I act sometimes.  But I can't necessarily separate those changes from the professional changes, either.


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## lklawson (Jul 22, 2013)

jks9199 said:


> Do you carry weapons routinely?


Yes.



> Does it shape your behavior?


Only by the legal requirements.



> Do you go places you might not ordinarily -- or avoid places that you wouldn't if unarmed?


No to both.



> Is it different with different weapons, like legally carrying a gun or a knife?


Not particularly.  Some places here in Ohio legally prohibit concealed carry on their premises.  I will, as much as possible, avoid shopping there entirely whether or not I am currently armed with a firearm or with some other self defense tool.



> What about if the knife is really more tool than weapon?


They're all tools.  The knife tends to be a more versatile tool which I can use for more tasks whereas a concealed carry firearm tends to be very very purpose specific in comparison.  But they're all just tools.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## clfsean (Jul 22, 2013)

jks9199 said:


> Do you carry weapons routinely?



Yep. Have since I could legally. And before it wasn't an issue since I couldn't legally.



jks9199 said:


> Does it shape your behavior?



I don't think so. I don't carry myself as a gunfighter or knifefighter or unarmed badass. I'm just me.



jks9199 said:


> Do you go places you might not ordinarily



Oh hell no!! I'm armed to be able to defend myself more completely, not stupid. Common sense says if you don't want a fight, don't go looking. That applies there. I don't go places I don't have any need to be in for any reason, armed or not. 



jks9199 said:


> -- or avoid places that you wouldn't if unarmed?



I avoid those kinds of places anyway, armed or not. I just make extra sure for the times I'm not carrying.



jks9199 said:


> Is it different with different weapons, like legally carrying a gun or a knife?



Not that I've noticed. 



jks9199 said:


> What about if the knife is really more tool than weapon?



People still get hurt with hammers & nails... those are tools. Really no different to me if I have to use it to open a box or get out of a FUBAR situation to go home
safely.


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## Carol (Jul 22, 2013)

Do I carry weapons?  Yes I do carry routinely.  

Does it shape my behaviour?  I do find I'm a bit more polite when carrying a firearm.  I may open carry, and don't want to be viewed as some <perjorative> with a gun.

Do I go places I wouldn't?  Always!  I wouldn't go in to the back country unarmed any more than I would go in to the back country without food or water.

Is it different with different weapons?   Sure. I'll forget how many blades I am carrying but I always know whether or not I'm carrying a firearm.  Its easy to not remember whether a few inches of metal is in the computer bag or not.  Its hard to forget a couple pounds of metal anchored one's waist.

What about if the knife is more of a tool?  My knives are tools first.   I can go in to detail as to what sorts of substances my blades cut, and how well each one does that, because that's why I carry them and that's what I use them for.  I have yet to stick the pointy end in another person or any other living member of the animal kingdom.  Hope I'm never in a situation where I need to do so.


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## Big Don (Jul 23, 2013)

I always have a knife on me, but, it is a tool that can be a weapon.
I never have feared to go anywhere. Dark alleys, pshaw...
I don't know, the few times I've carried a gun, I went fewer places, generally from home to work and back, than is the rule for me.
The knife I carry is a cheap, easily replaced Home Depot $7.99 lock blade box cutter, it is a tool first. Can it be a weapon pretty quickly, sure, but, damn, if I need a weapon that fast I would probably resort to hand to hand or depending on the situation, either run screaming like a little girl, or hit them with my pick up.
(Running and screaming like a little girl is a valid technique.)


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## RTKDCMB (Jul 23, 2013)

No I never carry weapons (other than my mind and common sense). Some people feel the need to carry guns for self defence but I would be willing to bet that most have very little idea how to properly and safely use them as the video below that I just found a minute ago suggests.


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## Dirty Dog (Jul 23, 2013)

jks9199 said:


> Do you carry weapons routinely? Does it shape your behavior? Do you go places you might not ordinarily -- or avoid places that you wouldn't if unarmed? Is it different with different weapons, like legally carrying a gun or a knife? What about if the knife is really more tool than weapon?



Yes, I routinely carry. I pretty much always have something sharp on me, including when I'm at work. And when I'm not working, I commonly carry a gun.

I don't think either case 'shapes my behavior' as such or has any particular influence on the places I go.

The sharp objects are primarily tools that can double as weapons (I've certainly used them to cut seatbelts and clothing more often than people...), but I'm always aware of their use as a weapon, and of how different knives (blade length, shape, etc) could be used most effectively.


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## harlan (Jul 23, 2013)

Do you carry weapons routinely?  -  No.
 Does it shape your behavior?    -Even though I only have archaic, training weapons, yes, it heightens my desire to drive/act more cautiously. 
Do you go places you might not ordinarily -- or avoid places that you wouldn't if unarmed?    -Yes. But only because stuff stays in the car and might be stolen.
Is it different with different weapons, like legally carrying a gun or a knife?     -Yes. Different with bladed vs unbladed.
What about if the knife is really more tool than weapon?   -Then it's the sort of knife that is obviously a tool, and not likely to raise eyebrows.

Frankly, I'm more concerned about running into a police officer with a point to prove than a thug.


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## lklawson (Jul 23, 2013)

RTKDCMB said:


> No I never carry weapons (other than my mind and common sense).


That's fine for you.



> Some people feel the need to carry guns for self defence but I would be willing to bet that most have very little idea how to properly and safely use them


Actual studies and statistics tend to disagree.  CCW holders tend to make it a point to get training (when not actually mandated to do so by law as is the most common in the U.S.), practice regularly, and acquaint themselves with tactics, strategy, and legal ramifications.



> as the video below that I just found a minute ago suggests.


Oh good Lord, not this chestnut again?  This "study" was a total work and has been debunked many times.

The defenders were:



Wearing heavy gloves
Wearing masks
Wearing baggy and cumbersome clothes
Using weapons they were unfamiliar with
Using unfamiliar weapons retention devices
Trained for target shooting at best rather than actual combat
Unversed in self-defense firearms handling and tactics
 
The attacker:



Was a trained firearms instructor with a VAST knowledge of gun handling, self- defense techniques, and offensive techniques
Highly trained hand-gunner
*Told exactly who in the crowd had the gun and where he was sitting*

This study had as much bearing on reality as matching a team of 7 year old T-Ballers against the Red Sox... if they glued the balls to the T and made the kids hold the bat upside down.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## MJS (Jul 25, 2013)

jks9199 said:


> Do you carry weapons routinely?



No, not on a regular basis.  




> Does it shape your behavior?



Yes and no.  Sure, it gives you an edge, but IMO, its also important to keep in mind that the weapon could be taken from you, if you're not careful.  



> Do you go places you might not ordinarily -- or avoid places that you wouldn't if unarmed?



No, I try to stay out of the bad areas and if I do have to go thru a potentially bad area, I do my best to do it during the day.  Of course, this isn't to say you can't get mugged in broad daylight.  




> Is it different with different weapons, like legally carrying a gun or a knife?



Nope.



> What about if the knife is really more tool than weapon?



I used to work in a warehouse.  I had a boxcutter that I used often.  I'd keep it in my pocket and would often leave work with it.  It was primarily a tool but of course it could certainly be used as a weapon if need be.


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## MJS (Jul 25, 2013)

RTKDCMB said:


> No I never carry weapons (other than my mind and common sense). Some people feel the need to carry guns for self defence but I would be willing to bet that most have very little idea how to properly and safely use them as the video below that I just found a minute ago suggests.



All the more reason to know and understand the ins and outs of what you're carrying, how to use it, how to draw it effectively, etc.


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## Carol (Jul 25, 2013)

Big Don said:


> (Running and screaming like a little girl is a valid technique.)



Absolutely!!  My two fave Kenpo techniques are Escaping the Thug and Fleeing Chicken


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## geezer (Jul 25, 2013)

I don't carry weapons regularly ...at least not objects that are _intended_ for use as weapons. For one thing, I'm a high school teacher and carrying a gun or knife isn't allowed. And, having children at home who often have their friends over, I don't like to keep firearms loaded and readily available at home. However, when I look around my immediate environment, whether at work, in the car or at home, I'm surrounded by a plethora of innocent appearing objects that could serve very well as weapons, should the need arise. 

Of course, firearms have a important place in self-defense, but training in the effective use of improvised weapons is also very useful. As far as how the availability of such "weapons" affects my behavior. Just as with a gun, knife or conventional weapon, having some knowledge of how to use an improvised weapon and the effect it can have on the human body probably makes me a bit more polite and keen on avoiding physical violence.


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## oftheherd1 (Jul 25, 2013)

lklawson said:


> ...
> 
> This study had as much bearing on reality as matching a team of 7 year old T-Ballers against the Red Sox... if they glued the balls to the T and made the kids hold the bat upside down.
> 
> ...



I hadn't seen it before, but kind of what I thought as well.  Well, maybe not.  You should probably put the T-ballers in bare feet and make them wear +3 glasses as well.

Funny how you can show a documentary and so subtly slant it towards gun control.  I wonder if the cops agreed to cooperate knowing that?


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## oftheherd1 (Jul 25, 2013)

I don't carry weapons anymore, but I used to carry a firearm 24/7.  I was always aware I was carrying, so I suppose that made me a little different.  I certainly tried to be sure I wasn't any more likely to rely on a firearm than without one.  In fact, I would prefer no weapon in my hand if a situation allowed it.

Other than that I don't think I declined to go places or to go to them.  I have always been careful about placing myself in bad situations if they could be avoided.  Life and job can put you in them enough without seeking problems.  I certainly didn't look for opportunities to pull a firearm, nor to avoid them when necessary (maybe only two or three times I had to pull a weapon).  

As to a firearm or blade, I used to carry a pocket knife, but that's all it was to me.  I would sooner have used MA as it would be quicker than trying to pull a pocket knife and get it open.


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## Aiki Lee (Jul 28, 2013)

jks9199 said:


> Do you carry weapons routinely?



Not anymore really. I used to wear a knife, but after the clip broke off I never replaced it. I do carry certain objects that can be used to puncture or strangle a person.



jks9199 said:


> Does it shape your behavior?



The knife never did, but I am unsure how a firearm would affect me. Illinois just recently became the last State in the Union to allow concealed carry, and I will likely purchase something and carry. I am curious as to whether this will affect my possible decisions I may have to make in an emergency. Will I engage a situation I should  actually flee from? I don't know, but I do believe it is a serious question for anyone who chooses to carry.



jks9199 said:


> Do you go places you might not ordinarily -- or avoid places that you wouldn't if unarmed?



Like I said above, I think it is a possibility that carrying a firearm might make me "too big for my breeches" as my grandfather would say. Although putting this much thought into it might suggest that I won't.



jks9199 said:


> Is it different with different weapons, like legally carrying a gun or a knife?  What about if the knife is really more tool than weapon?



When I carried a knife I was always aware of its presence when out and about, and it made me feel a little more confident that I could save my life if I came across someone who was better at hurting people than I was at the time. I was also concerned though that an attacker might take it off my belt, and feel sort of the same way about carrying a pistol. Walking around with keys or large pens, or cords has me less concerned as people don't view those as weapons and will likely not seek to take them from you before you use it on them.

Its a lot to think about.


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## Drasken (Jul 28, 2013)

I always carry a knife, sometimes I carry my walking stick as well. This doesn't change my behavior or where I am willing to go.

Honestly my knife is a tool primarily. Same with my walking stick. I prefer not to use anything to harm another person. However I am well trained in doing so if needed.
My knife is the only tool that I carry literally everywhere with me (within legal limits of course) and it is the most amazing tool I own. I have had a knife on me ever since survival training. And I paid a few hundred for my fixed blade so I could guarantee an exceptional knife. I can cut the lock out of a car door with it if I had to (i tested it at a junk yard to confirm the claims of the smith that made it. I don't see why I will NEED this capability, but it's pretty awesome to know my knife won't break or dull with normal use.)


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## Brother John (Jul 31, 2013)

jks9199 said:


> Do you carry weapons routinely?  Does it shape your behavior?  Do you go places you might not ordinarily -- or avoid places that you wouldn't if unarmed?  Is it different with different weapons, like legally carrying a gun or a knife?  What about if the knife is really more tool than weapon?


Do I carry weapons routinely?
no. Neither my profession nor average environment  warrants it. How ever I keep many weapons strategically place in and around my home and in my vehicle. I also go walking at night with a 3' wooden stick. But really....that's nothing but a dog deterrent.  The end of town I live on is notorious for strays. 

Does carrying a weapon change my behavior?
yes and no. 
Yes in that I'm mindful of its location for retention purposes and of where I go. I'd not carry my bolo into the local grocery store. Also....I'd not take my handgun anywhere near a school. 

Does possession of a weapon change where I'd go. 
Absolutely. But that depends on the weapon and the nature of the environment you're choosing to go into. Like I said before, due to my aversion to going to prison and losing my job, I'll never take a weapon near a school or polling location. 

What if the knife were really more of a tool than a weapon?
I'm not totally on board with the distinction.  There are scant few tools that can't be made into weapons and visa versa. Sometimes the distinction is sharper....true. Like I could hammer in a nail with my telescopic metal baton. Inefficient, but doable. I'm a big advocate of learning to fight with whatever comes to hand. 
I like the mindset that says: 
i and everything I can grab is a tool and a weapon...the usefulness is limited only by your own ability to perceive and adapt. 

Your Brother
John


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