# why was this person banned?



## Josh (Nov 17, 2004)

i heard parmandjack got banned? why? sorry


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## Bob Hubbard (Nov 18, 2004)

Constant rules violations and total disrespect for anyone not agreeing with his particular worldview.

Examples are at http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18850


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## MA-Caver (Nov 18, 2004)

Sad that such extremism can't be controlled from within to allow others a respectful leeway to their beliefs while clinging to their own. 
I've known hard-core hard-line "born-again" christians like him and there's no flexibility in them at all. 
Always hated that narrow "Christ's way (read:* MY* way) or Hell's way" attitude. 
Wish him well. In his journey.


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## Josh (Nov 18, 2004)

the ol Jesus talk got ya'll upset? I know ya'll have rules, but i just wanna ask something real quick, why is it that Christians are so compelled to spread the Gospel, but no other "religion" has this motivation? STILL, the Bible explains that Jesus is UNSEEN.


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## Ceicei (Nov 18, 2004)

Josh said:
			
		

> the ol Jesus talk got ya'll upset? I know ya'll have rules, but i just wanna ask something real quick, why is it that Christians are so compelled to spread the Gospel, but no other "religion" has this motivation? STILL, the Bible explains that Jesus is UNSEEN.


 It isn't just Christians that could be inflexible.  There are others that can be just as dogmatic about what they believe.  If tolerance and a willingness to listen to others views is absent, then it can be a problem.

 - Ceicei


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## Feisty Mouse (Nov 18, 2004)

Josh said:
			
		

> the ol Jesus talk got ya'll upset? I know ya'll have rules, but i just wanna ask something real quick, why is it that Christians are so compelled to spread the Gospel, but no other "religion" has this motivation? STILL, the Bible explains that Jesus is UNSEEN.


What, to you, constitutes what you call "ol Jesus talk"?  

Why do you think other religions do not spread their own Gospels?

And I have no idea what you were trying to say with your last statement, but OK.


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## Bob Hubbard (Nov 18, 2004)

Josh, it wasn't the "ol Jesus" talk as you put it.

 It was continued disrespect for members of this board that didn't agree with his narrow world view.
 It was violation of our hate-speech guidelines.
 It was flagrent disrespect for our moderation staff.

 Our rules clearly state "A member who is rude, excessively negative, or disruptive may receive a warning or may be suspended or banned immediately."
 - He was all 3, constantly.

 "Any abuse directed at our all-volunteer moderation/administration team, including defying the moderators/administrators to suspend or ban a member, may result in an immediate suspension or ban."
 - This was done, repeatedly.

 "Hate speech is not allowed. Posts that contain material that is racist, sexist, homophobic, bigoted, or otherwise offensive, are not allowed."
 - This was violated, repeatedly as well.

 I have a number of Christian friends, 1 of whom is a minister. I showed several of them those postings. They were quite offended by the amount of bigotry and venom contained within them. 

 MartialTalk is for many types of discussion.  Our primary focus is on the Martial.
 It is not a vehicle for missionary work.

 A discussion of the need of various religions to "spread the word" or otherwise seek new converts and the methods used is best discussed within the Study.


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## DoxN4cer (Nov 19, 2004)

Kaith Rustaz said:
			
		

> Our rules clearly state "A member who is rude, excessively negative, or disruptive may receive a warning or may be suspended or banned immediately."
> - He was all 3, constantly.
> 
> "Hate speech is not allowed. Posts that contain material that is racist, sexist, homophobic, bigoted, or otherwise offensive, are not allowed."



Sorry to hijack this thread, Bob, but  how does this "hate language" clause relate to the excessive politcal riggamorole in the Study?

Tim


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## Bob Hubbard (Nov 19, 2004)

It all depends on the wording.  There have probably been a number of posts that walked the fine line, if not crossed it, but they weren't reported or seen as such.


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## Rich Parsons (Nov 19, 2004)

Kaith Rustaz said:
			
		

> I have a number of Christian friends, 1 of whom is a minister. I showed several of them those postings. They were quite offended by the amount of bigotry and venom contained within them.



I have a number of Christian Friends as well. Some of them on this board.  They also found this and other posts objecionable and hate filled and full of bigotry. My minister friend(s) have also seen some of these comments and shake their heads, and wonder who people can get so far down a line of thought to not see, and find them upsetting as well. And those friends of mine are from multiple denominations.


As to the politcal, there were some things let slide as people did not complain, There were some things that were removed, and others that were complained about and then removed.

 :asian:


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## still learning (Nov 20, 2004)

Hello, It is nice to have a site that treats everyone equal. It is also nice not to have wrong,negative,words here. Controls are needed. Please keep up the good work. I am also a recreation shoreline fisherman, the "Ulua" site is terrible sometimes ,with the terrible language used. NO Controls on this site. Lets stay positive.....? Aloha


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## Zepp (Dec 3, 2004)

Not that I want to go digging up ancient history around here, but since someone else already started this thread, I too now just have to ask about someone.  What did Kodanjaclay do to get himself banned?

(If for any reason you feel this shouldn't be brought up publicly just say so, and I'll consider the matter dropped.)


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## ABN (Dec 3, 2004)

Josh,
  You're trolling again. You have advanced your Fundamentalist Christian agenda many times on many different forums. I think it was quite obvious to everyone, including you, why Parmandjack was banned. You can try all you like to hide behind an "aw shucks" demeanor but, many of us have seen you before and know your game. Cut the crap and stop wasting bandwidth.

Oh yeah, you said in the post that started this thread:

" STILL, the Bible explains that Jesus is UNSEEN."

Try being a little more Christ like.


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## Seig (Dec 3, 2004)

Zepp said:
			
		

> Not that I want to go digging up ancient history around here, but since someone else already started this thread, I too now just have to ask about someone. What did Kodanjaclay do to get himself banned?
> 
> (If for any reason you feel this shouldn't be brought up publicly just say so, and I'll consider the matter dropped.)


If you really want the answer to that, hit me up offline. I will not post it publicly.


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## The Prof (Dec 18, 2004)

In reading the responses, I obviously have missed out on something that is near and dear to my heart, my Christian faith and those who profess to be Christians and beat up on everyone who does not see it their way.

I am a married Priest and pastor.  It is my policy not to be judgmental or hostile to others who do not believe as I do. Tolerance and love without judgment is for me the best way to show who and what I am.

No one faith owns God. Those who think that they have God locked up in their back pocket are in for a rude awakening. 

Get along with each other, it makes for less stress and it certainly makes God smile.


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## pete (Dec 20, 2004)

amen... and merry christmas!

pete


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## masherdong (Feb 28, 2005)

Sorry to hear that.  We all need to play nice and respect each other.


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## kid (Mar 1, 2005)

when you kick someone off do you send them a pm and tell them why?  Just curious.  i don't plan on being booted, im curious thats it.


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## shesulsa (Mar 1, 2005)

yep


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## Bob Hubbard (Mar 1, 2005)

In most cases, an admin will email the person being banned to inform them about it and why.  In the case of a suspension, we will usually send a PM outlining why and how long.


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## 47MartialMan (Mar 5, 2005)

i hope i will get a warning first before suspension


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## Bob Hubbard (Mar 5, 2005)

That is usually the procedure.


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## 47MartialMan (Mar 5, 2005)

I can be known to post controversal issues, but it is out of great appreciation to read someone's opposing, or supporting views.


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## Makalakumu (Jun 3, 2005)

I don't know how much information is available publically, but can anyone tell me what happened to a few of our users?

Loki09789 = banned user

rmcrobertson = account suspended - now closed

Robert Rouuselot = account suspended - now closed

One kinda develops a relationship with people on MT, maybe not in a traditional friendship, but something...and when people you respect leave, it can only leave one wondering...and feeling a little dissappointed.  

Any help to set my mind at ease would be appreciated...

John


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## rutherford (Jun 3, 2005)

47MartialMan said:
			
		

> i hope i will get a warning first before suspension



Did you?


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## TigerWoman (Jun 3, 2005)

I miss Loki09789 and also Michigan TKD.  Maybe testosterone got the better of them.  ??? TW


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## Makalakumu (Jun 3, 2005)

Both Roberts were old and experienced martial artists, I'm very disappointed to see them choose to leave.


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## Kempogeek (Jun 3, 2005)

TigerWoman said:
			
		

> I miss Loki09789 and also Michigan TKD.  Maybe testosterone got the better of them.  ??? TW


A couple of months back it took me a while to realize that I haven't see MichiganTKD post anything. So I was very surprised to see that he was a banned user. Im going to miss his anti Pres. Bush picture. .......Steve


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## MJS (Jun 3, 2005)

I will leave the reasons behind the recent suspensions/accounts closed for a more senior staff member to answer, but I will say this.  In thread warnings are posted in threads that are getting heated, when sniping occurs, etc.  When those warnings go ignored, the thread usually gets locked and goes under an Admin. review.  It is usually then that problem user(s) get a vacation, be it a short one or a permanent one.

I hope that this answered some questions.

Mike


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## hammer (Jun 3, 2005)

MJS said:
			
		

> I will leave the reasons behind the recent suspensions/accounts closed for a more senior staff member to answer, but I will say this. In thread warnings are posted in threads that are getting heated, when sniping occurs, etc. When those warnings go ignored, the thread usually gets locked and goes under an Admin. review. It is usually then that problem user(s) get a vacation, be it a short one or a permanent one.
> 
> I hope that this answered some questions.
> 
> Mike


Mike. I understand that there is a code of conduct on Martial talk and value that, and considering warnings are given I think it is quite fair. 

Yet on the other hand it can be entertaining when the discussion gets heated, makes for an interesting read (lol).

I Also think it is a shame when Banned User's like, Robert Rouuselot, and other's who have much to share and contribute to this forum are no longer active on this forum..........(truly a shame).

Although respect the decision.

One has to value any person, that say's what he mean's, and mean's what he say's.

Cheer's

Hammer


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## MJS (Jun 3, 2005)

hammer said:
			
		

> Yet on the other hand it can be entertaining when the discussion gets heated, makes for an interesting read (lol).



There are some subjects that certainly can get more heated than others.  Political views is one that would fit this category.  It is often hard at times to put what we're thinking online and at the same time, making sure that everyone reading it will understand.  As entertaining as it may seem, when the personal shots start to fly, it does not make for a friendly discussion.  Take a look at some threads in the Study...I'm sure you can see what I'm talking about.  



> I Also think it is a shame when Banned User's like, Robert Rouuselot, and other's who have much to share and contribute to this forum are no longer active on this forum..........(truly a shame).



RR was not banned.  He requested his acct. to be closed.  I'm sure if he contacted the Admins. and wanted his acct. open, they just may do it.

Mike


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## hammer (Jun 3, 2005)

Thanks Mike,



> It is often hard at times to put what we're thinking online and at the same time, making sure that everyone reading it will understand.





> Yet on the other hand it can be entertaining when the discussion gets heated, makes for an interesting read (lol).


The above comment was said in jest,
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 but thankyou for sharing I see what you mean.


Cheers


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## Bob Hubbard (Jun 3, 2005)

> Loki09789 = banned user
> 
> rmcrobertson = account suspended - now closed
> 
> Robert Rouuselot = account suspended - now closed



Without going into the specifics, Mr. Martin's account was banned after being suspended.  Mr. Robertson requested his account be closed as he did not agree with the terms of his recent suspention, and Mr. Rouuselot requested his account be closed, but had not been suspended prior to it.

We don't like to suspend people, and I honestly hate banning anyone, but it happens unforunately. Sometimes we run into situations where people think because they have X years in, that somehow makes them exempt from correction or that they don't have to listen to a moderator who is their junior in the arts.  It don't work that way.  Others skim that line between "within the rules" and "needs a swift kick" so often that it disrupts things.  We've had at more than 1 case where when we sent out a simple warning (not a suspension mind you, just a "hey, that was too much, lets not do it again" note), the individual got incredibly huffy and how dare we say such things to him, don't we know what he's done for the arts, etc etc and demanded his account be closed because we obviously weren't worth his time.  If I posted some of the back n forths we've had with some of these banned users, people would be amazed at the egos involved.  I'm not saying this was the case in these particular cases.

Ya get a warning, take it for what it is. A reminder that you went a little too far.
If you get suspended, take it like a pro.  It's usually only for a week. You may not agree with it. Thats ok. But be polite when you disagree. Some of the bans were people who just went nuts when they got a week off, and decided to argue using Kinison-Ryu. (Thats screaming and throwing things)



> I Also think it is a shame when .. User's ...  who have much to share and contribute to this forum are no longer active on this forum


  I agree. I've had differences in the past with both Roberts, but am sorry to see them go. I've said that about alot of folks closed and banned.


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## Flatlander (Jun 3, 2005)

Ultimately, realize that these decisions are not entered into lightly.


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## Jonathan Randall (Jun 3, 2005)

Kaith Rustaz said:
			
		

> We've had at more than 1 case where when we sent out a simple warning (not a suspension mind you, just a "hey, that was too much, lets not do it again" note), the individual got incredibly huffy and how dare we say such things to him, don't we know what he's done for the arts, etc etc and demanded his account be closed because we obviously weren't worth his time. If I posted some of the back n forths we've had with some of these banned users, people would be amazed at the egos involved. I'm not saying this was the case in these particular cases.


Unfortunately, even legitimate, traditional, high ranked martial artists are sometimes EGOMANIACS. IMHO, there have been several on this board who have had such an incredibly high opinion of themselves and such contempt for others that, despite their knowledge and experience, the discourse here is better off without their presence.

Just serves as a reminder to the rest of us that physical mastery doesn't always equate to mental mastery - or even basic maturity. Besides, most honest instructors will admit that they often learn as much from their white belts as from their seniors. Hard to do that if you insist on always being the "Master"...


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## Bester (Jun 4, 2005)

So, when you cut through all the PC crap, the bottom line is, they were banned for being self-centered *******s.  

Works for me.


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## Tgace (Jun 5, 2005)

Bester said:
			
		

> So, when you cut through all the PC crap, the bottom line is, they were banned for being self-centered *******s.
> 
> Works for me.


If that were the only criteria it would be awful quiet around here...


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## Franc0 (Jun 5, 2005)

Jonathan Randall said:
			
		

> Unfortunately, even legitimate, traditional, high ranked martial artists are sometimes EGOMANIACS. IMHO, there have been several on this board who have had such an incredibly high opinion of themselves and such contempt for others that, despite their knowledge and experience, the discourse here is better off without their presence.
> 
> Just serves as a reminder to the rest of us that physical mastery doesn't always equate to mental mastery - or even basic maturity. Besides, most honest instructors will admit that they often learn as much from their white belts as from their seniors. Hard to do that if you insist on always being the "Master"...



I agree 100% with that, well said.

Franco


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## Bester (Jun 6, 2005)

Tgace said:
			
		

> If that were the only criteria it would be awful quiet around here...


 On any forum in fact.


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## Goldendragon7 (Jun 6, 2005)

Jonathan Randall said:
			
		

> Even legitimate, traditional, high  ranked martial artists are sometimes EGOMANIACS.  Several on this board who have  had such an incredibly high opinion of themselves and such contempt for others  that, despite their knowledge and experience, the discourse here is better off  without their presence.
> 
> Physical mastery doesn't always equate to mental  mastery - or even basic maturity. Most quality ,honest instructors will  admit that they often learn as much from their white belts as from their  seniors. *Hard to do that if you insist on always being the  "Master"...*


I'll add, that I too agree with what you  posted!!

As to the last line in Bold........ not only did some of these  guys insist on constantly reminding us that they are "upper ranks" (or at least  in the opinion of their promoting instructor) and [many feel as if the "stripes" are the *sole*  contributing factor universally accepted to actual seniority in the Art :uhyeah: *which it is  NOT*] they also insist on pushing  their personal views on everyone with no regard towards respect for another's  views, background, training or turf.  So they get the responses and treatment  that they have earned and deserve.

They can be "Masters"... or whatever  else they want to be (in their little ponds), but don't try and shove it down  _*MY*_ throat or the throat of my students or friends.

I  don't worry about them though..... they will always have fun talking to and  entertaining themselves. :ultracool

:asian:


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## searcher (Jun 6, 2005)

I am glad to hear that we at least get a warning before we get booted.   I got banned from another sight for getting a little bit heated(IMO it was nothing).   So it is very refreshing that we can put some pashion into out discussions without heavy, instant, boot in the backside.


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## Tgace (Jun 6, 2005)

While I may have some specific objections..in general I think that the "powers that be" here are are more than fair and tolerant.


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## bignick (Jun 6, 2005)

I think this place is one of the best moderated around and that as long as all the pissing stays in the new "Great Debate" forum I'll be content


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## Goldendragon7 (Jun 9, 2005)

Tgace said:
			
		

> While I may have some specific objections..in general I think that the "powers that be" here are are more than fair and tolerant.


 I agree!

 :asian:


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## hardheadjarhead (Jun 9, 2005)

Parmandjack posted some of the most mean-spirited posts I'd ever seen on this forum.  If THAT was Christianity, give me a quiet evening reading Bertrand Russel and Tom Paine.

I concur that this is a well moderated forum.  I've been to others and I find it far better here.  The level of debate is kept civil...civil debate is generally intelligent debate.



Regards,


Steve


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## MALCOLM XERXESâ¢ (Jul 21, 2005)

Bob Hubbard said:
			
		

> <SNIP>Kinison-Ryu. (Thats screaming and throwing things).







*SPEWS COCA-COLA FROM NOSTRILS ONTO VDU*


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