# Please tell me about the Ka-Bar



## Flying Crane (Jul 26, 2011)

What do folks know about the ka-bar?  Please tell me about the quality, ruggedness, reputation of the manufacturer, etc.  

Are there knock-offs on the market to beware of?  If so, how do you spot them?

thanks!


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## MAist25 (Jul 26, 2011)

Ka-bar makes great knives. They are very well made, very rugged, and have a very nice blade. You really cant go wrong with a Ka-bar to be honest. Its a very simple knife and has been trusted by the US military for years. Just like every good thing, there will be knock offs. The first thing to look at is obviously the brand. If it doesnt say Ka-bar then you obviously arent getting the real thing. The other most obvious way to tell if you are getting the real thing or not is to check the price. If you spend $20 on a knife and you thing you're just getting a good deal, you're wrong. But yea, if you need a good knife then Ka-bar is always a good choice. But it also depends on what you are planning on using the knife for. If you are looking for a knife to perform a specific task then there will be other knives that would perform those tasks better than a Ka-bar. But as an all-purpose knife it is definitely at the top of the list.


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## Archangel M (Jul 26, 2011)

While Ka Bar makes all sorts of models now, I still prefer the original.

https://www.kabar.com/product/produ...goryId=1,2,3,7&categoryName=Military/Tactical


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## David43515 (Jul 26, 2011)

Oh where to start, and how to do it w/o offending? The Ka-bar model most people think of is the combat knife originally made for the Marine Corps in WWII. And like others have said, it`s a decent knife for what it was designed for: an easily produced field knife that could double as a weapon. But the key here is the phrase "easily produced." The knife is made with a stick tang that goes through a series of leather washers (on some models the washers were given a heavy antimolding treatment for the tropics) and the fastened by screwing on a butt plate that often doubled as a hammer. On some models the sides of the handles were slightly flattened to give the handle a more oval shape, on some they were left round. During the war the knife was made by several manufacturers, so there`s alot of tooling around and you`ll see lots of copies being made to this day. During the 90`s Ka-Bar came out with a modern version with a synthetic handle, partially serrated stainless balde, and the top side of the guard removed.On both the old and new versions the false edge on the clip is easy to sharpen if you should wish.

Thousands upon thousands of US servicemen carried them in the field and not only encountered no problems with them, they`ll swear up and down it`s the finest knife ever made. By shear numbers of satisfied customers alone that`s a heck of an endorsement. I personally avoid stick tangs like the plague. I`m harder on camping knives than many folks because what starts as a camping trip can in theory become a survival situation easily. In a survival sit, your priorities are shelter, water, food in that order. (Hypothermia will kill faster than dehydration or starvation.) So I like a knife that can take ALOT of heavvy chopping. The stick tang is the weak point here. Some factories heat treat/ temper thier blades in a salt bath rather than a convetional furnace, meaning they hang the knife from the tang dipping the blade into the hot salts. this means that the tang doesn`t get the same heat treat as the blade. For 90% of people this isn`t going to pose any noticable problem in their lifetime. Howver I knew a US Army survival instructor who had broken at least 3 Ka-Bars in the field, two of them in the tang.

Ka-Bar is an excellent company with a great reputation. They make a wide selection of models and the designs are good. If you don`t plan on doing alot of heavy chopping with the blade or pounding with the hammer butt, *the Marine combat knife is a great peice, well worth the asking price*. If you`re looking for a heavy knife for survival situations, I would look for something with a full-length, visible tang.
(I worked as a knife maker for seven years at Busse Combat Knife company in Wauseon Ohio when it was still a 4-man shop doing all 100% handmade knives.Made me a bit opinionated, but I don`t look down on any knife company. The one that works best is the one you have with you when you need it.)


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## VegasM4 (Jul 27, 2011)

I own several KA-BAR knives from my time in the Marine Corps.As a matter of fact my first KA-BAR was purchased by my father when he was in the Marines back in 1968 at the Camp Lejeune PX and given to me and I still have it. They are great knives.BTW "KA-BAR" stands for "Knife Accessory-Browning Automatic Rifle".Semper Fi.


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## Flying Crane (Jul 27, 2011)

David43515 said:


> Oh where to start, and how to do it w/o offending? The Ka-bar model most people think of is the combat knife originally made for the Marine Corps in WWII. And like others have said, it`s a decent knife for what it was designed for: an easily produced field knife that could double as a weapon. But the key here is the phrase "easily produced." The knife is made with a stick tang that goes through a series of leather washers (on some models the washers were given a heavy antimolding treatment for the tropics) and the fastened by screwing on a butt plate that often doubled as a hammer. On some models the sides of the handles were slightly flattened to give the handle a more oval shape, on some they were left round. During the war the knife was made by several manufacturers, so there`s alot of tooling around and you`ll see lots of copies being made to this day. During the 90`s Ka-Bar came out with a modern version with a synthetic handle, partially serrated stainless balde, and the top side of the guard removed.On both the old and new versions the false edge on the clip is easy to sharpen if you should wish.
> 
> Thousands upon thousands of US servicemen carried them in the field and not only encountered no problems with them, they`ll swear up and down it`s the finest knife ever made. By shear numbers of satisfied customers alone that`s a heck of an endorsement. I personally avoid stick tangs like the plague. I`m harder on camping knives than many folks because what starts as a camping trip can in theory become a survival situation easily. In a survival sit, your priorities are shelter, water, food in that order. (Hypothermia will kill faster than dehydration or starvation.) So I like a knife that can take ALOT of heavvy chopping. The stick tang is the weak point here. Some factories heat treat/ temper thier blades in a salt bath rather than a convetional furnace, meaning they hang the knife from the tang dipping the blade into the hot salts. this means that the tang doesn`t get the same heat treat as the blade. For 90% of people this isn`t going to pose any noticable problem in their lifetime. Howver I knew a US Army survival instructor who had broken at least 3 Ka-Bars in the field, two of them in the tang.
> 
> ...



I actually picked one up yesterday, which is why I made the inquiry. 

On the box, there is a diagram of the blade sans grip, and it appears the tang is full-length thru the grip. Are you referring primarily to the beefiness of the tang? Would you prefer to see the tang with a width closer to the width of the blade? I would agree with that, I feel like with this kind of thing there's nothing wrong with over-building.

When you say "visible tang", do you mean the grip components are sandwiched on the tang, so the edge of the tang is visible on the top and bottom of the grip, vs. being narrow enough to insert fully into the grip?


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## David43515 (Jul 27, 2011)

Yep, that`s exactly what I mean. The Ka-bar`s tang runs the full length of the handle, but not the full width of the blade.  A full-length visible tang is just that. It runs the full length of the handle ( as opposed to half or a third like you see on many kitchen knives) and it`s as wide as the handle instead of fitting down inside the handle. (Like you described it the tang is sandwiched in between the two handle slabs.) that way it something happened in the field and the handle was dammaged (slabs came off) you still have a usable peice of equipment until you get back and can replace it.

For example the survival instructor I knew down at Ft. Bragg said that one of the Ka-bars he broke at the tang happened when he was using the butt of the handle to hammer down and crack the shell of a turtle he was butchering. After he`d broken the shell he said he heard a rattling in the synthetic handle. (He had one of the new style knives I mentioned earlier) He gave it a few shakes and the screwed on nut that forms the butt-plate fell off. The tang had broken about 2/3 up the length of the handle. If he was very careful he could still use the knife for whittling and fine cutting, but if he had done any hacking or chopping movements the blade would`ve flown off into the bush.

*Now like I said earlier, for the vast overwhelming majority of people, even soldiers in a harsh environment, that knife is going to fulfill all their needs with no problems.* And even if you do experience a problem, how often are you in a situation where you can`t just drive into town and grab another knife at the first sporting goods store? At Busse in the era I worked there the vast majority of the customers were military and outdoorsmen who were going into places where they might not have acess to a store for weeks at a time and occasionally lives or at least comfort depended on just what equipment they were able to carry with them. We tended to over build things so there was never a chance of failure. Now thaat Jerry Busse is getting older he builds more for the collectors` market, but the knives are still some of the hardest wearing field knives made anywhere.But now the demand is such that the prices are higher and to meet the demand he`ll only make one or two models for a couple monthes at a time.


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## David43515 (Jul 27, 2011)

By the way, that bit about the visble tang prefeance is just that, personal preffeance. If the work you have in mind calls for something different, that prefferance goes out the window. For example when the Navy SEALs wanted a new knife two of the requirements were a fully insulated handle (no electric charges passing into the user`s hands) and nonmagnetic (all SEALs work  with explosives). So they went with a Titanium blade and a rubber handle with a wide stick tang. The best tools to suit the job.


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## Flying Crane (Jul 28, 2011)

very valuable observations.  thanks for the lesson!


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## Flying Crane (Jul 28, 2011)

Here's another question for you David, if you don't mind.

You mentioned that the knife that broke in the tang was one of the newer designs, synthetic handle, I believe.  Do you feel there might be a difference between that type of handle, vs. the older style that has (as it appears to me) a series of fitted leather washers shaped into a handle?  What I'm wondering, if I can successfully describe this, is if the leather washer style may fit more tightly to the tang and may somehow absorb the hammering shock better into the leather, and prevent such a break?  Maybe the synthetic handle, as a solid material that must be drilled out to fit the tang, might have a bit of a looser contact with the tang, so the tang itself absorbs all that hammering shock and would be more prone to breakage, simply because of the handle style?

any truth in this notion?


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## Bikewr (Feb 6, 2012)

Tang-through-the-grip designs have been used for all manner of knives and daggers for a very long time...  Seems to me the problem referred to is using the knife for a purpose other than intended.    
Cowboys used to pound fence staples with their .45s as well... To this day collectors show specimens with bunged-up butts and bent grip frames.  

Want a cutting-tool-hammer?  Get a "Smatchet".


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## Brian R. VanCise (Feb 6, 2012)

It is a great knife for the price.  There are however better options out there but they are a lot more costly too!


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## elder999 (Feb 6, 2012)

Some really good posts here, especially David's. This though:



			
				VegasM4 said:
			
		

> BTW "KA-BAR" stands for "Knife Accessory-Browning Automatic Rifle".Semper Fi.



Is simply incorrect. The "KA-BAR" _brand name_ dates back to before 1920, and before the old Union Cutlery company in Olean, New York, obtained the Marine Corps contract in  1942. After WWII, Union Cutlery changed their name to KA-BAR.

You can see the KA-BAR webpage, and some good history here


While I can't find it on that page, I was told years ago that KA-BAR means  _Kill a bear,_ absurd as that sounds.....though people have used them for boar hunting.

EDIT: It was on the webpage:



> *How KA-BAR Got Its Name*
> 
> Our name dates back to the early 1900's from a fur trapper  testimonial. He wrote that while trapping, his gun jammed leaving him  with only his knife to kill a wounded bear that was attacking him. He  thanked us for making the quality knife that helped him to kill a bear,  but all that was legible was "K a bar". Honored by the testimonial, the  company adopted the phrase KA-BAR as their trademark.



Oh, I like them well enough, though I prefer something with a little more blade forward balance.


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## Flying Crane (Feb 6, 2012)

In the time since I initiated this thread, I've acquired three K-Bars.  Two full size, one of which has the serration on part of the edge, and the third is the smaller model.

Nice knives, I think they were good acquisitions.


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## Bill Mattocks (Feb 6, 2012)

elder999 said:


> Some really good posts here, especially David's. This though:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



A 1925 advertisement...

http://books.google.com/books?id=2Z...Dw&ved=0CFsQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=ka-bar&f=false

1940:

http://books.google.com/books?id=Aj...CFMQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q="ka-bar knife"&f=false

Note that they were advertised in "Boy's Life" as being suitable for Boy Scouts...

In any case, as a Marine, I must stick up for the venerable old KA-BAR.  It's fine for most things and it certain has a fascinating history.


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## elder999 (Feb 6, 2012)

Flying Crane said:
			
		

> In  the time since I initiated this thread, I've acquired three K-Bars.   Two full size, one of which has the serration on part of the edge, and  the third is the smaller model.
> 
> Nice knives, I think they were good acquisitions.



That serrated blade makes it an aviation model-the serrations are for sawing through a helicopter fusilage for exfitration.




			
				Bill Mattock said:
			
		

> Note that they were advertised in "Boy's Life" as being suitable for Boy Scouts...
> 
> In any case, as a Marine, I must stick up for the venerable old KA-BAR.  It's fine for most things and it certain has a fascinating history.



indeed, I got my first one as a Boy Scoiut-think it's still around somewhere....:lol:


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## Carol (Feb 6, 2012)

Flying Crane said:


> In the time since I initiated this thread, I've acquired three K-Bars.  Two full size, one of which has the serration on part of the edge, and the third is the smaller model.
> 
> Nice knives, I think they were good acquisitions.



I have a smaller model -- fits my hand better.  Its been used and abused up in the mountains, its my main backcountry knife.  Been an awesome tool, and I expect it to put up with my use and abuse for many years to come


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## Flying Crane (Feb 6, 2012)

elder999 said:


> That serrated blade makes it an aviation model-the serrations are for sawing through a helicopter fusilage for exfitration.



hmmm... I've never heard of this, but hey, what do I know?  I assumed the serrations made it for a more efficient cutter of ropes and cords.


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## elder999 (Feb 6, 2012)

Flying Crane said:
			
		

> hmmm... I've never heard of this, but hey, what do I know?  I assumed the serrations made it for a more efficient cutter of ropes and cords.



Sharpen the blade, cut a rope with it, using the serrations and the edge, and see which is a more efficient for the job.


From the Wikipedia  page for "Survival knife":





> During WWII, survival knives were issued to aircraft crew, as it was a  real possibility that these personnel might be shot down over wilderness  or behind enemy lines. Lifeboats aboard naval vessels also frequently  contained survival kits including knives. These knives varied in design  from one branch of the service to another and from one nation to  another. The majority of them were simply commercial knives purchased in  bulk by the military. From the Vietnam-era and to present,  purpose-built survival knives evolved.[SUP][3][/SUP]  One of Randall's designs which became a popular fighting knife for  troops in Vietnam was the Number 14 "Attack" Model. During Vietnam,  Randall received feedback from a Combat Surgeon in the US Army's 94th  Medical Detachment named Captain George Ingraham. *Ingraham's request was  for serrations on the spine to cut through the fuselage of downed  aircraft to rescue trapped personne*l and a hollow handle to allow  storage of survival gear. Randall made the changes and the result was  the first of the modern survival knives



I know your KaBar doesn't have the serrations on the spine;instead, they're below the edge and near the handle, but that's why they are there: punch the blade through the fuselage and saw an opening to escape.


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## David43515 (Feb 6, 2012)

Flying Crane said:


> Here's another question for you David, if you don't mind.
> 
> You mentioned that the knife that broke in the tang was one of the newer designs, synthetic handle, I believe. Do you feel there might be a difference between that type of handle, vs. the older style that has (as it appears to me) a series of fitted leather washers shaped into a handle? What I'm wondering, if I can successfully describe this, is if the leather washer style may fit more tightly to the tang and may somehow absorb the hammering shock better into the leather, and prevent such a break? Maybe the synthetic handle, as a solid material that must be drilled out to fit the tang, might have a bit of a looser contact with the tang, so the tang itself absorbs all that hammering shock and would be more prone to breakage, simply because of the handle style?
> 
> any truth in this notion?




I never gave it much thought, but your logic seems sound. I just honestly don`t know if the difference would be noticable.


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## Carol (Feb 6, 2012)

To me that sounds more like a weak spot in the metal, especially if it was a clean break.   If it wasn't a clean break, that's usually a sign of a blade that's been under an undue amount of stress.  

Ask me again next year once I have some blacksmithing classes under my belt


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## mook jong man (Feb 7, 2012)

Well it's a place where certain men go to drink and meet other gentlemen of that persuasion.


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## Bill Mattocks (Feb 7, 2012)

mook jong man said:


> Well it's a place where certain men go to drink and meet other gentlemen of that persuasion.



Says the man, just before having his face lightly tapped with an entrenching tool.


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## elder999 (Feb 7, 2012)

Used properly-even to chop wood-a rat tail or stick tanged knife like the Ka-Bar can stand up for years. The leather washer handle does absorb more shock than the krayton handled ones, but the krayton handled ones also have a somewhat thicker tang.

Bottom line, if the tang breaks, it's probably because the user was doing something wrong-like using it for a hammer *all of the time*, instead of just in a pinch, or using poor technique for chopping wood.

 I've seen these knives handle a fair amount of use at more than 30 or 40 years old. Of course,like a lot of things, the older ones are probably made better....:lol:


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## Bill Mattocks (Feb 7, 2012)

elder999 said:


> Of course,like a lot of things, the older ones are probably made better....:lol:



There's a fact.  Steel and other metal alloys are better now in bespoke knives, but in consumer-grade or mass-produced items, no way.

A lot of people are surprised to find out how small a genuine KA-BAR really is; it's not the monster kind of half-machete that became popular after Crocodile Dundee started waving one around.

I have found a knife I prefer, and I think it's an un-appreciate cult classic.  I'm fully-supplied, so I'll let the cat out of the bag.

http://www.gunnyssurplus.com/m5-garand-bayone.html

This is a full-length tang, but the tang is not the width of the blade.  One must remove the plastic handle and make a new one (I used wood, others use leather disks, etc).  Some remove the attaching boss, others don't bother.  The surplus scabbard is fine for attaching to a belt and is highly protective.

I feel it has proper heft and balance; the KA-BAR, as much as I love it for its history, has always felt 'wrong' in my hands balance-wise.  I have also never managed to destroy one of my M5 Garand bayonets.  They're really good.  I have stoned a few to shiny up the blade.  Long slow work but great for a winter evening with nothing better to do.


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