# Whose instruction do you follow?



## Ping898 (Jun 7, 2006)

Here's the background:  When I was going up the ranks we had a head instructor and our school was affiliated with our instructor's instructor's organization.  All strictly EPAK, not like an offshoot or anything.  So eventually my head instructor left, didn't like the area or something, 2 other instructors were appointed head instructors and maybe 6 months later there was some sort of legal falling out with the school we were affiliated with and we became unaffiliated.   Everyone was still being taught at that point, it was just the head instructor's weren't necessarily getting new instruction.  Now maybe another 6 months later, our instructor's find someone new to learn from and though I don't think we became officially affiliated with them as we had no name change or anything, our ciriculum started to change in terms or how or when things were taught and other minor things, like when I was going up the ranks we went green belt, red belt, brown belt and once the connection to this instructor became full force it became green belt, 3rd brown, 2nd brown, 1st brown.  

So now to my question (sorry I am long winded): At the time of the ciriculum move I was about 3 to 5 months away from testing for my black belt (a 3 month process in our school) and because we were now affiliated with a new head instructor, some of the details of techniques changed, like in raking mace, the last move was changed from a snapping back fist to an uppercut.  Personally, in that instance, I found the snapping back fist more natural and I was high enough up and a good enough student that I could get away with not changing what I was doing (though I always made sure to teach it as it was now being done).

But when you run into minor differences between instructors on how things are done, how do you decide what you should do?  Is it a comfort thing, i.e. tailoring it to your abilities or do you always do it exacty the way your instructor tells you to do?  And I realize that this may depend on your rank.  As I said I was very close to my Black Belt testing at this point and had a lot of confidence in my stuff, that if I was judged on technicality no one could find fault.  I think if I was say a purple belt at this time my response would have been different.


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## Ceicei (Jun 7, 2006)

Well, there were some minor changes done with some techniques when I became a brown belt.  The changes are taught to the new and lower ranked students.  

I was told by my instructor when I tested recently for my 2nd brown that it didn't matter to him if I did the new changes or stayed with the old way.  The key is how I do the techniques, not which is the right one.  Sometimes in doing a technique, the attacker may, for example, step to the outside instead of the inside, and they watch to see what I will do.  Basically, they look to see whether I understand the concepts and principles and if I can adapt.  

- Ceicei


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## Flying Crane (Jun 7, 2006)

I suppose if you are maintaining an affiliation with someone, and actively studying under someone, then you do it how they tell you to do it.  If you are unaffiliated and not actively studying under someone anymore, then you either do it how you were taught, or you make whatever changes seem appropriate to you.

By staying with the school thru the transition, you are accepting the new affiliation and any changes in the curriculum.  If you are still a student at this school, which is now affiliated with a different group, then you do it their way.  

If these people are open minded, they may not have a problem with you continuing to do it the way you were originally taught.  But that is sort of up to them to decide.  Personally, I don't like to get too hung up on minor issues like whether you finish a particular technique with an uppercut or a snapping backfist.  Under the right circumstances, either might be the best choice, or something completely different.  I don't see the self-defense techniques as Perfect Recipes that cannot be changed.  I think you have to be willing and allowed to season to your own taste, to fit the circumstances.


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## HKphooey (Jun 7, 2006)

It is an age old question, but still good one.  In some cases I have 20 variations of a technique.  Each was taught to me with an acceptable explanation.  I find this to be no different to learning all the EPAK techniques.  The goal is to have a choice for every situation.  Our body type, the environment and the attacker's body type (and state of mind) will all play a key role in the choices we make.  Sometimes a raking back knuckle will work better than a snapping backfist.  IMO it comes down to knowing why you made a specific movement.  

When I teach at the school, I teach the way my sensei has asked me to the technique. There still needs to be some uniformity with lower belts.  As they progress we can teach them options and advanced physical movements.  They too will get to a point in their training when they will experiment with the different options.  At that point they will make the decision that best suits their needs.

One other thing to add...
Much of it will also depend on how you market your school and teachings.  If you are going to say you are teaching "pure" EPAK, than do so.  If you are going to teach a hybrid or modified style, be up front and honest with your students.


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## monkey (Jun 7, 2006)

I had a simular event.As my Teacher Passed & I continued under his son(who evolved with the art & new title-termonology ect.)This can be found In  differant family lines as the sons (do differant & wont do the old ways or They Inovate it with evoloving  it to new heights.).Cacoye Conyete has fast disarms & painful locks.He will not conform to what Mamoy did on the Judo type throws.Ernesto Presas has Mono y Mono-Kombaton-Bo jutsu-to name a few.He has inovated & to what I see expanded the art.Here we see that the evolution of the art has grown by leaps & bounds.So do we look at it as not conforming & doing the art as they see it or doing the evolutions.Everything must have some kind of change.Even Grand master Parker & Bruce Lee kept the art changeing.Guru Inosanto is another great inovator for change.


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## MJS (Jun 7, 2006)

Ping898 said:
			
		

> Here's the background: When I was going up the ranks we had a head instructor and our school was affiliated with our instructor's instructor's organization. All strictly EPAK, not like an offshoot or anything. So eventually my head instructor left, didn't like the area or something, 2 other instructors were appointed head instructors and maybe 6 months later there was some sort of legal falling out with the school we were affiliated with and we became unaffiliated. Everyone was still being taught at that point, it was just the head instructor's weren't necessarily getting new instruction. Now maybe another 6 months later, our instructor's find someone new to learn from and though I don't think we became officially affiliated with them as we had no name change or anything, our ciriculum started to change in terms or how or when things were taught and other minor things, like when I was going up the ranks we went green belt, red belt, brown belt and once the connection to this instructor became full force it became green belt, 3rd brown, 2nd brown, 1st brown.
> 
> So now to my question (sorry I am long winded): At the time of the ciriculum move I was about 3 to 5 months away from testing for my black belt (a 3 month process in our school) and because we were now affiliated with a new head instructor, some of the details of techniques changed, like in raking mace, the last move was changed from a snapping back fist to an uppercut. Personally, in that instance, I found the snapping back fist more natural and I was high enough up and a good enough student that I could get away with not changing what I was doing (though I always made sure to teach it as it was now being done).
> 
> But when you run into minor differences between instructors on how things are done, how do you decide what you should do? Is it a comfort thing, i.e. tailoring it to your abilities or do you always do it exacty the way your instructor tells you to do? And I realize that this may depend on your rank. As I said I was very close to my Black Belt testing at this point and had a lot of confidence in my stuff, that if I was judged on technicality no one could find fault. I think if I was say a purple belt at this time my response would have been different.


 
I was in a similar situation, the only difference being that when I was ready to test for Black, we completely changed styles.  

Seeing that you were so close to testing for Black, you may want to talk to your current instructor and see if you can still test, although there are slight variations.  You have the material, just slightly different.  I see no reason why you couldn't go back and learn his variation at a later time.

Mike


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## Ping898 (Jun 7, 2006)

MJS said:
			
		

> I was in a similar situation, the only difference being that when I was ready to test for Black, we completely changed styles.
> 
> Seeing that you were so close to testing for Black, you may want to talk to your current instructor and see if you can still test, although there are slight variations. You have the material, just slightly different. I see no reason why you couldn't go back and learn his variation at a later time.
> 
> Mike


 
Thanks for the suggestion Mike, this was a past situation,I did test and earned my belt  but I imagine it is not a unique situation so was looking to see what others do/did in simular situations cause I may face it again.


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