# On Not Being Invincible



## Bill Mattocks (Oct 1, 2010)

Even experienced Martial Artists can be injured or killed; this is a very sad story, but it illustrates a valuable lesson.  Physical confrontation is not generally a good thing, and avoiding it if you can may save your life.  Without more details, we don't know if the victim here could have walked away or not; I suspect it was a surprise that he could not have seen coming.  But it's chilling and frightening; danger lurks everywhere.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/01/nyregion/01leash.html?src=mv



> The dispute began early Thursday over two dogs, a miniature pinscher  named Rocco and a Shih Tzu, Bugsy, one tied too closely to the other  outside a bar in Prospect Heights, Brooklyn.
> ...
> By the time it was over, two employees of the bar, the Branded Saloon,  on Vanderbilt Avenue, had been stabbed. One of them, Daniel Hultquist,  who had been performing music at the bar, was slashed in the neck and  treated at a nearby hospital. The other, Chai Eun Hillmann, an aspiring actor and a martial arts expert, was stabbed twice in the torso and killed.
> ...
> ...



Be careful out there.


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## Flea (Oct 1, 2010)

That's really sad.  It's a strange comment on human nature that something so small can escalate into murder, while often major things will be overlooked.

It's a tangent, but this all could have been prevented with some commonsense dog ownership.  If you plan to go to a bar, why drag your dog along?  Even aside from the tangled leashes a lot can go wrong to jeopardize the dog.  It all could have been prevented so simply and easily at that level.


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## Xue Sheng (Oct 1, 2010)

Bill Mattocks said:


> Even experienced Martial Artists can be injured or killed; this is a very sad story, but it illustrates a valuable lesson. Physical confrontation is not generally a good thing, and avoiding it if you can may save your life. Without more details, we don't know if the victim here could have walked away or not; I suspect it was a surprise that he could not have seen coming. But it's chilling and frightening; danger lurks everywhere.
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/01/nyregion/01leash.html?src=mv
> 
> ...


 
Very sad



Flea said:


> That's really sad. It's a strange comment on human nature that something so small can escalate into murder, while often major things will be overlooked.


 
Speaking as someone who once had to wade in and break up a fight between two adults who were fighting over the ownership of a Banana nothing really surprises me anymore


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## WC_lun (Oct 1, 2010)

We had a guy killed here in KC a few years ago because he didn't have 6 cents to give to a guy at a convenience store.  It is quite sad someone would have to die over such nonsense. Martial art expert or not, it is always a good idea to avoid violence if possible.


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## sgtmac_46 (Oct 1, 2010)

Flea said:


> That's really sad. It's a strange comment on human nature that something so small can escalate into murder, while often major things will be overlooked.
> 
> It's a tangent, but this all could have been prevented with some commonsense dog ownership. If you plan to go to a bar, why drag your dog along? Even aside from the tangled leashes a lot can go wrong to jeopardize the dog. It all could have been prevented so simply and easily at that level.


 
I think the key words here are 'bar'.......booze often escalates minor discussions in to killings.


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## Archangel M (Oct 1, 2010)

> Mr. Pagan was arrested on a murder charge in 1991 and eventually sentenced to 5 to 15 years in prison for manslaughter. He had been released from prison in June 2000, and was on parole until June 2006.



Typical...


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## Josh Oakley (Oct 1, 2010)

sgtmac_46 said:


> I think the key words here are 'bar'.......booze often escalates minor discussions in to killings.


 
That is definately one that pops out. The follow-up: Who brings their dogs to a bar?


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## Carol (Oct 1, 2010)

Apparently, having murderers free after serving less than 10 years approaching life by hacking up two people until he kills one, and seriously injures the other......is less controversial than what an innocent person does while taking a dog for a walk.


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## Flea (Oct 1, 2010)

Granted.  I just mention it because I know a lot more about dog handling than I do about criminal justice.


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## l_uk3y (Oct 2, 2010)

How sad.  Its always over the simplest things that this happens.  
+1 on alcohol and bars.  So much hurt is caused by its effects.

I will never understand how justice can continue to let these people roam the streets.  Previous convictions of a serious nature and he can still walk the streets armed with a blade. Something is seriously wrong with that.

Luke


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## BloodMoney (Oct 2, 2010)

My instructor once said he taught "the Art of Invincibility". I skeptically queried him on that. His response?

"If you never get in a fight you cant lost, if you can never lost a fight you are invincible".

Okay he was being a bit facetious but still, this thread just made me think of it. Yes his saying is true, but then why not train in conflict avoidance and not martial arts? Because sometimes the fight finds you no matter what, when your just trying to have a quiet beer with some friends....


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## MJS (Oct 3, 2010)

sgtmac_46 said:


> I think the key words here are 'bar'.......booze often escalates minor discussions in to killings.


 
Exactly, and this is the #1 reason why I do not frequent places like this.  



Archangel M said:


> Typical...


 
Yup, and as we can see, this guy didn't learn his lesson, he had no interest in rehab, so he'd be a better person when he got out, etc.


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## Deaf Smith (Oct 8, 2010)

This just goes to show you that you can be a combination John Wesley Hardin and Bruce Lee and still get killed before you even know it.

All you have to do is have your mind somewhere else for a split second. Just drop your guard for a moment. 

You guys know Bruce Lee once said, when asked about using his skills to beat up people on the streets, he said, "You can't do that in Los Angeles, someone will pull a gun out of their pocket and shoot you."

Deaf


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## sgtmac_46 (Oct 10, 2010)

Deaf Smith said:


> This just goes to show you that you can be a combination John Wesley Hardin and Bruce Lee and still get killed before you even know it.
> 
> All you have to do is have your mind somewhere else for a split second. Just drop your guard for a moment.
> 
> ...


 
That's why situational awareness is the most important aspect of conflict.  If you lack the awareness to realize your argument has just turned in to a fist fight, your fist fight has just turned in to a knife fight or a gun fight, then you're behind the curve.


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