# Muay thai kick vs Dutch Kick



## faijaii (Feb 12, 2019)

I was wondering in competition do muay thai fighters use dutch style kicks sometimes? I see that sometimes they dont step out to a 45 degree angle before they turn their hips -- which is considered a dutch style kick. is this used a lot by muay thai fighters? 






time stamp: 5:49 -- example


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## faijaii (Feb 12, 2019)

anyone else notice?


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## drop bear (Feb 12, 2019)

Yeah. There is this thing where people will use these tiny stylistic variations depending on the circumstance.

Karate style kicks with the knee forward then pop are also coming back in vogue.


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## Tony Dismukes (Feb 12, 2019)

Both ways (with and without stepping out to 45 degrees) are standard tools in Muay Thai. I prefer to use the step when I can, but the timing and flow of the match don’t always allow it.


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## dvcochran (Feb 12, 2019)

faijaii said:


> I was wondering in competition do muay thai fighters use dutch style kicks sometimes? I see that sometimes they dont step out to a 45 degree angle before they turn their hips -- which is considered a dutch style kick. is this used a lot by muay thai fighters?
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> 
> ...


A lot of it is predicated on the flexibility of the kicker. Other factors are getting tired and a little lazy. Guys who can make the same power without the full pivot a slight speed advantage. IMHO


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## Danny T (Feb 12, 2019)

I wouldn't call the step off line and kick Dutch Style. The traditional Muay Thai I learned has a pivot and kick, a step and kick, a hop and kick as fundamental kicks.


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## Martial D (Feb 13, 2019)

faijaii said:


> I was wondering in competition do muay thai fighters use dutch style kicks sometimes? I see that sometimes they dont step out to a 45 degree angle before they turn their hips -- which is considered a dutch style kick. is this used a lot by muay thai fighters?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It depends. If they are moving off line you don't need to step off line.


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## dvcochran (Feb 13, 2019)

Martial D said:


> It depends. If they are moving off line you don't need to step off line.


Does it not depend which side they step off to?


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## Martial D (Feb 13, 2019)

dvcochran said:


> Does it not depend which side they step off to?


Well sure. They'd be circling into it.


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## Stuart (Sep 27, 2019)

drop bear said:


> Yeah. There is this thing where people will use these tiny stylistic variations depending on the circumstance.
> 
> Karate style kicks with the knee forward then pop are also coming back in vogue.



I agree with this. 

There is a decent amount of variation between camps in Thailand, not trying to hate though, when people talk of a "dutch style" versus a "thai style" I know what they mean and it's a concise way of explaining it even if on one occasion there might be thai using a dutch style and vice versa a Dutchman using a style you might commonly see in Thailand.


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## JP3 (Sep 27, 2019)

Tony Dismukes said:


> Both ways (with and without stepping out to 45 degrees) are standard tools in Muay Thai. I prefer to use the step when I can, but the timing and flow of the match don’t always allow it.


I've never even heard of a "Dutch style" kick, as compared to a MT kick. One can step into, or away from, a kick and still deliver the kick, or one can initiate the required pivot to engage hips without really traversing distance, staying in position. For me,  if I'm whipping my shin around, trying to "drop it" on the guy at impact and drive into the target (just a few of my mental training keys for the difference in ethos behind MT vs. TKD kicking), then I'm doing a Thai kick.  What the other dude is doing changes up how you've got to kick him, too.


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## drop bear (Sep 27, 2019)

JP3 said:


> I've never even heard of a "Dutch style" kick, as compared to a MT kick. One can step into, or away from, a kick and still deliver the kick, or one can initiate the required pivot to engage hips without really traversing distance, staying in position. For me,  if I'm whipping my shin around, trying to "drop it" on the guy at impact and drive into the target (just a few of my mental training keys for the difference in ethos behind MT vs. TKD kicking), then I'm doing a Thai kick.  What the other dude is doing changes up how you've got to kick him, too.



Dutch will traditionally kick and then step forward with the punch so each move in a combination crosses the body.

Thai will kick and step back.

Sort of.

Traditionally the duch have better boxing and so will kick to engage their hands. 

Thais will kick to avoid hands but engage clinching and elbows.


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## drop bear (Sep 28, 2019)

Thai style muay thai.





Dutch style.


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## JP3 (Oct 1, 2019)

drop bear said:


> Dutch will traditionally kick and then step forward with the punch so each move in a combination crosses the body.
> 
> Thai will kick and step back.
> 
> ...


I guess I'm Dutch then, and so was my instructor in Muay Thai, who was born in Bangkok of Thai parents.

What you're describing isn't a different "kick," it's different movement tactics, seems to me small man tactics vs. big guy tactics.


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## Danny T (Oct 1, 2019)

JP3 said:


> I guess I'm Dutch then, and so was my instructor in Muay Thai, who was born in Bangkok of Thai parents.
> 
> What you're describing isn't a different "kick," it's different movement tactics, seems to me small man tactics vs. big guy tactics.


Myself as well...
Stylistically, the differences are more an emphasis of using certain tactics vs any real difference in the tactics. Other than elbows and working in the clinch.


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## drop bear (Oct 2, 2019)

JP3 said:


> I guess I'm Dutch then, and so was my instructor in Muay Thai, who was born in Bangkok of Thai parents.
> 
> What you're describing isn't a different "kick," it's different movement tactics, seems to me small man tactics vs. big guy tactics.



The kicking is a bit heavier because you land forwards and each move chambers the next.

If you have good boxing You would use a lot of Dutch because it puts you in boxing range. If you don't then you stay out of boxing range.

It is not really about big or small.

A lot of westerners lean towards Dutch because we have access to really  good boxing.

Australia where a lot of our striking is Muai thai because we have access to such good thai here. And so will see a little bit of variation.

We can access these top level camps relatively easily.


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## JP3 (Oct 26, 2019)

drop bear said:


> The kicking is a bit heavier because you land forwards and each move chambers the next.
> 
> If you have good boxing You would use a lot of Dutch because it puts you in boxing range. If you don't then you stay out of boxing range.
> 
> ...



I can follow that.  So, the "kick" itself isn't duifferent, it's what you do after or with the kick that's changing, depending on the fighter's own personal... skillset? Preference? Tactical decision-making? Any way it's described... I get it now.


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