# jeez, where do i start?



## little_miss_fracus (Sep 5, 2007)

dang this site it huge

k, i just started judo about a month and half ago, only went three times and hurt my shoulder - i typed it in a discussion for noobs

anyways i've been lookin at ur site and i can't believe how much there is too know about martial arts

i been reading about instructers who peeple think r fake and something about ranks and makin up "systems" ha - do peeple actully do that?

i feel like a looser here cuz i'm just lerning from a old japanese man in my friend's garage - its nice an padded an looks like japanese i guess

am i suppossed to ask him about his - um - standing among other judo peeps? how do i do that withowt him giving me grief?  i feel like it wood be disrespectful or something

and i'm reading abowt some ninja stuff too like some instructer said a student was not suppossed to teach but he is anyway?

i feel kinda stupid - i'm not really but it looks like i have a lot to learn

still trying to find out what a supermoderator is too

just kinda - not knowing where to start here

advice plz?


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## Tez3 (Sep 5, 2007)

Hi! first thing is DON'T PANIC lol! You've come to the right place, the people here are knowledgable and very friendly and the one thing we all know is ....how much we don't know! There is a huge lot to learn but don't let that put you off at all. One of things you realise when you finally get your black belt is that you don't know that much and you are always learning!

There are loads of different styles each with their own customs so don't worry about what they do. Judo isn't one of my styles but there's people on here who can tell you how to go about finding out what you want to know. Personally I think your training sounds as if it will be good!

Please don't think you sound stupid _you don't in the least_, the stupid people are the ones who don't know something and won't ask! Read as many different forums as interest you but concentrate for your knowledge at the moment on this one, the Judo one and the women's one for the moment to get your information. Information overload is painful lol! You will be surprised how quickly you find you know stuff!

and I don't know what a *Super *moderator is either !


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## Drac (Sep 5, 2007)

Tez3 said:


> Hi! first thing is DON'T PANIC lol! You've come to the right place, the people here are knowledgable and very friendly and the one thing we all know is ....how much we don't know! There is a huge lot to learn but don't let that put you off at all. One of things you realise when you finally get your black belt is that you don't know that much and you are always learning!
> 
> There are loads of different styles each with their own customs so don't worry about what they do. Judo isn't one of my styles but there's people on here who can tell you how to go about finding out what you want to know. Personally I think your training sounds as if it will be good!
> 
> ...


 

Tez3 said a lot of what I was going to..Leaning is learning, traditional school or from somebody in their garage..IF you go to a traditional school the Instructors Ranks will probably be posted in his office..There are LOADS of discussions about Masters and Grandmasters that some folks think are fake, it all depends on your preception...As far as ranks, you can go on e-Bay and buy a rank...By the way, I am a *Mod *and I don't know what a *Super Mod* is either...LOL


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## bydand (Sep 5, 2007)

Drac said:


> By the way, I am a *Mod *and I don't know what a *Super Mod* is either...LOL



They are the ones with the cape and eye-masks. :wink:


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## mini_dez (Sep 5, 2007)

Super Mods are moderators who have moderator access across all the forums on the site and not just specific ones.  They're not used on MT I'm guessing?
Oh, and welcome, you've definately come to the right place.  I've not been here long either


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## crushing (Sep 5, 2007)

little_miss_fracus said:


> i feel like a looser here cuz i'm just lerning from a old japanese man in my friend's garage - its nice an padded an looks like japanese i guess
> 
> advice plz?


 
Hey now, I resemble that remark!    Some of my training is done in a garage-turned-bicycle shop.  We have to clear out some bicycle's  before we can put down the mats to train.  Well, through the summer we've been training outside the shop.  It has been nice out and it's easier than moving a dozen or so bikes.

Don't judge your training so much by the location, whether it's in a garage, basement, middle school cafetorium, old warehouse, or on the beach.

I wish you the best as you continue on your journey.


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## Tez3 (Sep 5, 2007)

I know your cars are bigger than ours but I'm guessing your garages must be pretty big! You can't swing a cat in most of ours!


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## shesulsa (Sep 5, 2007)

Hey LMF, I answered you question about SuperModerators on your meet & greet thread - I think.  LOL!

First, get familiar with our software and where stuff is.

Tez3 made a GREAT suggestion about starting in just the Judo and Women's forums.

You must have found your User Control Panel because I can see you picked an avatar and have a signature.  That is where you'll find threads you post in if you subscribe to them (check out your options on your UserCP).  

Honestly, don't worry about the rank and fraud stuff or the arguments for now - for your training, get thee to a doctor to look at that shoulder (you've mentioned it a couple times), and go and WATCH your class.  Focus on learning your style first, come and chat with us in the Women's forum, the Locker Room and wherever else you feel comfortable.  As time goes on and you do some lurking (reading without posting - you've been doing that already), you'll start learning some things you didn't know you didn't know.

For the forums here, take some time to read the Rules and try searching for stuff in this forum and the support forum.  We have a lot of threads with a lot of info and you may find an answer already there for you.

Do post in regular English please, though.  The text-speak thing is hard to read for some of us.  Have you ever posted in forums before?


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## searcher (Sep 5, 2007)

Some of the best training in the world happens in an "old garage."   Don't worry about feeling stupid, we all do at some time or another.    And some feel stupid all of the time.    

ON going and asking him about himself, don't worry about it.   If he is legit, he should not care.   A simple way of digging for info is to ask him about he was trained in the of learning more about history.   He will most likely tell you plenty of information.   You can then do a little bit of research or you can come here and we will try to help you out.


BTW-welcome to MT!!!!


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## Kacey (Sep 5, 2007)

First, welcome, and happy posting!  :wavey:

Second, if you've only had 3 lessons, there's a lot things you _shouldn't_ know yet - so don't let that throw you (judo pun, throw... sorry, it's been a long day already, and it's only lunch time).  If you want to know more about your instructor and who he knows, ask him about _his _instructor; if he wants you to know, he'll tell you - probably back through several generations of instructors - if not, he'll let you know that too.


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## Rich Parsons (Sep 5, 2007)

Drac said:


> Tez3 said a lot of what I was going to..Leaning is learning, traditional school or from somebody in their garage..IF you go to a traditional school the Instructors Ranks will probably be posted in his office..There are LOADS of discussions about Masters and Grandmasters that some folks think are fake, it all depends on your preception...As far as ranks, you can go on e-Bay and buy a rank...By the way, I am a *Mod *and I don't know what a *Super Mod* is either...LOL


 

A moderator has authority in certain forums, or arreas of responibility if one likes.

A super-moderator has authority over the whole board. If some thing or someaction needstobetaken and the forum moderator is not online, and the action is urgent they can react then and now. Also assistant Administrators and Admins also have this power. In theory they also have other "powers" that is mostly behind the scenes for the average user.


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## still learning (Sep 5, 2007)

Hello, JUDO is a great martial art to learn.  It does not matter where the classes are.

Keep going and you can always ask the other students about your Sensi when out of class.

KEEP going to classes.............Aloha


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## little_miss_fracus (Mar 10, 2008)

Thanks everyone.


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## little_miss_fracus (Mar 10, 2008)

So, okay, I really don't know what to do anymore. I'm kind of apprehensive about going back to judo. I hurt my shoulder doing a kind of somersault - a shoulder roll - and I don't really like getting hurt like that.

I want to learn something but me and three other girls got hurt just rolling or falling but the guys didn't.  Sensei says i didn't roll right but I'm pretty sure i did what he told me to do.

I don't really know enough about all the options to make a good decision.  Help?


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## IcemanSK (Mar 10, 2008)

I think a Super Mod is just a bit better than your average moderator.

I love the fact that your asking questions. They're great! I'll defer to my judo friends for the answers, however. 

Remember, Mike Swain was not made in a day. Take it slow & enjoy it.


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## 7starmarc (Mar 10, 2008)

little_miss_fracus said:


> So, okay, I really don't know what to do anymore. I'm kind of apprehensive about going back to judo. I hurt my shoulder doing a kind of somersault - a shoulder roll - and I don't really like getting hurt like that.
> 
> I want to learn something but me and three other girls got hurt just rolling or falling but the guys didn't. Sensei says i didn't roll right but I'm pretty sure i did what he told me to do.
> 
> I don't really know enough about all the options to make a good decision. Help?


 
From my learning, a somersault is not a shoulder roll. Confusion on this may have been why you shoulder now hurts.

It may be that this instructor is not for you. Did you ask what he meant about not rolling right? A good instructor should be able to give you more than that, in terms of corrections for your technique or alternate visualizations.

I have known plenty of people who have hurt themselves learning to roll. One younger student in our school actually broke his clavicle doing this (I didn't actually see what he did). So you do have to be careful about learning properly.


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## newGuy12 (Mar 10, 2008)

little_miss_fracus said:


> So, okay, I really don't know what to do anymore. I'm kind of apprehensive about going back to judo. I hurt my shoulder doing a kind of somersault - a shoulder roll - and I don't really like getting hurt like that.
> 
> I want to learn something but me and three other girls got hurt just rolling or falling but the guys didn't.  Sensei says i didn't roll right but I'm pretty sure i did what he told me to do.
> 
> I don't really know enough about all the options to make a good decision.  Help?



Quit if you want, that's your business, but I say... Oh, c'mon -- you must ask your Teacher to explain better, or even ask some of his high ranking students if he is too busy.  You want to learn this, don't you?  Its worth some hurt now and then, because it is such a precious thing to know!

If it is the roll that I am thinking of, I can do that roll on concrete or gravel.  It does not matter! I'm not trying to brag -- I first learned this on the mat, then you can do it anywhere!  You must learn to do this correctly, not just for fighting, but what if you trip and fall???  Perhaps then you can *roll* instead of falling on your face!  This is a good thing to know.

Besides, you want to be able to fight good, just in case, right?  And to have a strong body and a strong mind!  You have to stick with this, keep showing up here.  Later, you can learn some striking techniques, too!  I have been told that the Judo people call that the atemi-waza, but do not tell your Teacher that -- just keep showing up and not quit, and keep practicing.  You'll get strong and learn these motions!





Robert


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## jks9199 (Mar 10, 2008)

Based on the fact you got hurt -- I have to assume that as much as you think you did just what he said, you didn't.  

And, you know what?  That's common!  It happens to everyone of us at some point or another.  Learning martial arts requires you to learn how to learn them.  You have to learn to listen to what is being said, watch what's being done, and then make your body do it.  It's not easy, and it takes time.  I'm willing to bet the guys had a little leg up both in rolling and in learning how to do things over you just because it's not all that different from learning other sports, and we're still a kind of chauvenistic society in regard to sports.  

You might consider asking your instructor what you did wrong, specifically.  It could be something as simple as going to slow (rolls are a lot easier with a little more energy) or tensing up because you're afraid of the floor.  (Kind of a reasonable thing to fear...)


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## shesulsa (Mar 10, 2008)

Good to see you back!

Definitely ask your teacher, but I have a couple of thoughts:

1.  JKS is right - guys do rolls in football and other sports and whether we like it or not, they're used to falling down - more so than girls.  No offense.

2.  What I've noticed is that people of both genders who do not have a lot of upper body strength don't really have a sense of using their arms as springs and this is basically what I *THINK* you might be missing. 

If you notice you're coming down hard on your elbow or shoulder or neck or back, you may not be supporting your weight through the landing by using proper tension in your arms. That's not to say you want to hold your arm completely rigid ... nor do you want to let it crumple up - that's how clavicles get broken.  If you have good upper body strength it's easier to do rolls, if you don't, it's easy to get hurt trying.

So - push ups! Pull-ups! Presses! heh heh heh.

There are safer ways to learning the rolls, too.  Go back and ask your sensei if he'll explain more and work with you directly a little more.  You may have to ask more than once if he's a traditionalist but if he gives you proper instruction it may be worth it.

Let us know how it pans out.


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## newGuy12 (Mar 10, 2008)

little_miss_fracus

Tell us, is this the roll that you speak of?











If it *IS*, then you listen to me -- if you ever really learn this motion, you will NEVER forget it -- it is like riding a bicycle, one you learn it!!!


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## newGuy12 (Mar 10, 2008)

The part of the body that touches the ground here goes from the hand to the shoulder ACROSS the back in a diagonal line, if this is the motion you want to do.  Also, look at the hand position that these guys have at the BEGINNING of the motion here:






Of course, disregard the fancy extra motions such as jumping off of some platform for now.  Just do the basic roll!


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## newGuy12 (Mar 10, 2008)

newGuy12 said:


> The part of the body that touches the ground here goes from the hand down the arm to the shoulder ACROSS the back in a diagonal line, if this is the motion you want to do.  Also, look at the hand position that these guys have at the BEGINNING of the motion here:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



And try it from the kneeling position first, to "cheat" and make it easier to begin with, if you must!!!


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## charyuop (Mar 11, 2008)

Front rolls in the beginning are hard for everyone. After over a year I still am on the learning path. Most people don't realize it, but fear is one of the main factor that blocks you. Even tho not aware of it, fear will make so that creates hesitation and tension: both great enemy of front rolls.

As per the injury...it happens. 2 months ago I was taking a front roll and right at the moment I was passing the point of no return, my "base" foot slipped and I landed streight on my shoulder. After 2 month I still have alot of pain, above all in lifting the arm. Unfortunately the shoulder is a huge center of soft tissues, muscles, tendins and nerves. It takes time to heal completely.


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## theletch1 (Mar 11, 2008)

charyuop said:


> Front rolls in the beginning are hard for everyone. After over a year I still am on the learning path. Most people don't realize it, but fear is one of the main factor that blocks you. Even tho not aware of it, fear will make so that creates hesitation and tension: both great enemy of front rolls.
> 
> As per the injury...it happens. 2 months ago I was taking a front roll and right at the moment I was passing the point of no return, my "base" foot slipped and I landed streight on my shoulder. After 2 month I still have alot of pain, above all in lifting the arm. Unfortunately the shoulder is a huge center of soft tissues, muscles, tendins and nerves. It takes time to heal completely.


Fear is a factor because it causes you to look away from the floor and that causes a barrel roll and barrel rolls hurt!  Keep that head pinned to the shoulder of the side you're rolling with and watch your toes all the way through the roll.  Good luck!  Falls and rolls in judo are a must and must be done properly to avoid injury.


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## little_miss_fracus (Mar 15, 2008)

That's it! That's the roll! Oh my gosh!!  

That's what I'm trying to do but it seems my weight still comes down on my shoulder - the top of it like my arm collapses.  So ... it looks like in the aikido videos they are holding their arms stiff but the other ones like the team ukemi seem to almost fall onto their arm - I think I'll work twards the aikido roll. they look closer to what I see in class, i guess.


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## theletch1 (Mar 15, 2008)

The forward arm is an important part of keeping that front roll from being very painful on the shoulder.  It IS a wheel roll, after all, and the arm is part of the wheel.  It won't support your weight as much as guide your weight so that the transition onto the shoulder is less painful.  Once you get very comfortable with the basic wheel roll (keeping the arm rigid with a slight bend) you'll be able to do the no arm front roll.  Keep trying and try it from a squating position to take a little of the height out of it if that helps.  Good luck and keep us posted.


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## newGuy12 (Mar 15, 2008)

We wish to hear of your success!  Remember:

1) Practice on the mat or a soft surface to begin with, while you are still learning -- to help to avoid injury.

2) You cannot learn it if you do not try -- also, sometimes the "squeaky wheel" gets the grease -- you can explicitly ask the advanced students for assistance, the worse that they can do is say "no" after all.

3) Once you "get it", it will be yours forever, you will never forget how to do this motion!

4) It is impressive to watch, it is aesthetically pleasing to the eye!  Beautiful to behold (and hear -- or NOT hear)!


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## little_miss_fracus (Mar 25, 2008)

Okay, so I think I'm getting it now. I still wind up kinda sideways, a little bit more sideways than I think I'm supposed to. However, my shoulder doesn't hurt as bad now.

Thanks for the help guys!


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## theletch1 (Mar 25, 2008)

Glad we could help.  Make sure you're keeping that head tucked tight to the shoulder and aren't looking away from your toes during the roll and that should get you spot on.  Just turning your eyeballs can cause a little difference in the roll.  Good luck and remember that all things come with practice.


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## gkygrl (Mar 25, 2008)

What great advice in this thread.  I saved some of those videos to my favorites.

I struggled with front rolls in my Army MP days -- yet I never learned the proper anatomy for one (the hand position, head tuck, etc).  I feel empowered.

I actually find some back rolls coming out of a throw and back to my feet easier.  Front rolls have the fear and failure factor for me.  The kind of stuff that can keep us from doing almost anything.

Keep up the work Little Miss -- you'll do just fine.  It might be worth getting the shoulder checked out if it continues to bother.  Don't want to get to the point of no return (meaning surgery or something) with it.


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## newGuy12 (Mar 25, 2008)

gkygrl said:


> I actually find some back rolls coming out of a throw and back to my feet easier.  Front rolls have the fear and failure factor for me.  The kind of stuff that can keep us from doing almost anything.


I am the opposite.  I have no fear of forward rolls, I will easily do them, on concrete, or gravel, I don't care.  I feel very confident with that motion.

Its the backward motion that is challenging to me, and I don't ever practice that. 

I can say that later if you wish, after you have the forward roll down well, you can add a motion on the end.  There is a way to roll, and then JUMP AND KICK THE TARGET.

Also, there is a form in American Kenpo, I believe, with the butterfly knife.  One part of the form has the butterfly knife on the floor.  The student rolls in that direction, with this roll, and picks up the knife, coming up to stand with it, and the form continues.  Its very good motion to know, and very practical too, not just for fighting.  But to keep from injury in some fall, perhaps. 

Knowing how to fall can be useful in ANY martial art.  I think that almost all of them have some kind of take down.  Once a friend of mine was showing me a takedown, and I did this roll, without being prompted to.  He then said, "No, you just reversed my motion, you defended against it."  That's okay, its very useful!


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## zDom (Mar 26, 2008)

For what its worth, I seem to recall that this guy:






learned from an old Japanese guy in a garage, or something close to that situation 

Wish I could find the link that has the story of how Mr. Angier began his training.


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## matt.m (Apr 6, 2008)

I understand your confusion.  It happens to everyone, and at the beginning everyone is scared of soreness and just outright "Oh wow" kinda stuff.

But I will say, I dont care if I train in my basement, I have a 10x12 built with a century wave master.  I dont care if I train at the dojang, in a backyard......no matter.  The fact is that you consistently train.  

After doing reps it will get easier.  Judo and any other martial art is exactly like reading.  The more you do it, the better you become at it.

So keep pluggin away.  A neat story for you if I could.  I have a 12 yr. old girl in my class, she works harder than the boys.  The 1st time she tried a rolling break fall it scared the crap out of her.  I told her "You did the hardest part, you tried."

Plus don't worry about being "New" to Martial Arts, even the people who have been at it a lot longer than me will tell you that "You always learn and get better."

So good luck and keep plugging away.


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