# What Forms Poomse Hyung do you do



## DuneViking (Feb 22, 2005)

What Forms Poomse Hyung do you do? We started with Kichos and Palgwes, added the old Pyungs, now Taegeuks plus advanced forms-yikes! makes my head spin!! How 'bout y'all?


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## ajs1976 (Feb 22, 2005)

Kibbon, Taeguks, Palgues, Black belt forms (Koryo, Taebek)


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## rainbows (Feb 22, 2005)

The ITF Chang-Hon patterns, ie. Chon-Ji, Dan-Gun etc.


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## Digger70chall (Feb 22, 2005)

we do ITF forms until blue or purple belt...not quite sure where it switches to the taegueks the rest of the way


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## TigerWoman (Feb 22, 2005)

We do Kibon, Taegueks until 1st Dan, then learn ITF forms as well to get to 2nd.  I've learned Keumgang and am starting Po-un. Twenty two forms + the master's form, in my head.  I wonder how many you can retain?  TW


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## terryl965 (Feb 22, 2005)

Kibon, Chon-ji, Taegueks for now even though they are thinking about changing them again *YEA!!* Black is Koryo, Kuemkang,taebeck and so on and Bassia which I personally like.


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## rmclain (Feb 22, 2005)

Taekwondo forms:

Kibon Hyung 1-5
Palgue 1-8
Koryo
Tae Baek
Jee Tae

Karate forms:

Pyung Ahn 1-5
Sypsoo
Bassai Tae
Bassai So
No Hai
Ahm Hak
Chulki 1-3
Wan Shu
Kong Son Kun
Ban Wol
Cha Un
Jin Soo
Oh Ship Sa Bo
Ship Pal
Bong Hyung 1-5

Chuan-fa forms:

Dan Kwon
Chang Kwon (Offensive & Defensive)
Doju San
Tai Jo Kwon
So Ho Yon
Han Son Dae Ryon


R. McLain


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## Hwoarang (Feb 22, 2005)

We do Poomsae / Taeguk


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## karatekid1975 (Feb 22, 2005)

We do Taegeuks. Then koryo, Tae baek, ect. Our basic form is one my master instructor developed as well as our bo forms (red belt). He also developed a series of BB forms as well (in addition to doing the WTF ones).


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## DuneViking (Feb 22, 2005)

Holy cow rmclain, that's is a lot o forms!! I thought we had a bunch. In addition to the others I listed, we added 3 in with the pyung ahns-nohei, naihanchi-1, and shipsoo. At first dan we use the WTF series starting with Koryo and add Bassai, at 2nd D Keumgang and Yum Bi (reference En Pi) 3rd D Taebeck, 4th D Pyongwon and the rest of the WTF series Sipjin, Jitae, Chonkwon, Hansu and Ilyeo down the line totaling only 38, but that's plenty for me now! Some of us also take the initiative and learn other forms as we wish. 

I found it interesting that people are mixing the ITF forms with the taegeuks, much more common than I would have thought. I will probably go senile before I run out of forms to learn, thanks to all you contributors!!!


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## rmclain (Feb 22, 2005)

Hi DuneViking,

I never knew anything different growing up until I hung out with friends from other schools.  Never seemed like much to me, but stepping back it does look like alot.

I see you are from Chung Do Kwan.  My teacher's lineage is from the Chang Moo Kwan and Kang Duk Won in Korea, beginning in 1951.  The forms taught there were from karate and chuan-fa.  When the KTA created and introduced Koryo, Kumgang, Tae Baek, Ship Jin, Baek Jae, JeeTae in December 1967 my teacher was one of the Masters invited to those clinics.  He adopted those forms into our curriculum and the Palgue 1-8 forms in 1973 when they were created.  Later he dropped Kum Gang, Ship Jin, and Baek Jae.

I don't think the number of forms learned is important compared to the quality and the amount of study and sweat put into it. 

The forms that were added at your school: pyung Ahn, Sypsoo, Naihanchi, No Hai have lots of wisdom and information in them.  Glad to hear you get to study them.

By rank, here is where we learn our forms.

10th Gup (White Belt): Kibon Hyung Il Chol, Kibon Hyung Yi Chol, Kibon Hyung Sam Chol 
9th Gup (Orange Belt): Kibon Hyung Sa Chol, Kibon Hyung Oh Chol, Palgue Il Jang, Bong Hyung Il Jang 
8th & 7th Gup (Yellow Belt): Pyung Ahn Cho Dan, Pyung Ahn Yi Dan, Palgue Yi Jang, Bong Hyung Yi Jang 
6th Gup (Green Belt): Pyung Ahn Sam Dan, Pyung Ahn Sa Dan, Palgue Sam Jang, Palgue Sa Jang 
5th Gup (Blue Belt): Pyung Ahn Oh Dan, Palgue Oh Jang, Danjon Hohub Hyung 
4th Gup (Purple Belt): Palgue Yuk Jang, Sypsoo, Koryo, Tae Baek 
3rd Gup (Purple Belt): Dan Kwon, Doju San, Bong Hyung Sam Jang 
2nd Gup (Brown Belt): Bassai Tae, Palgue Chil Jang 
1st Gup (Brown Belt): Jee Tae, Palgue Pal Jang 

1st Dan (Black): No Hai, Chulki Cho Dan, Chang Kwon (Offensive), Bong Hyung Sa Jang 
2nd Dan (Black): Ahm Hak, Chulki Yi Dan, Chang Kwon (Defensive) 
3rd Dan (Black): Chulki Sam Dan, Bassai So, Wan Shu 
4th Dan (Black): Kong Son Kun, So Ho Yon, Tai Jo Kwon, Ban Wol, Cha Un 
5th Dan (Black): Jin Soo, Oh Ship Sa Bo, Ship Pal 

There are more forms 6-8th Dan, but I don't know which are required. 


R. McLain


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## bignick (Feb 22, 2005)

We do the palgwe series for gup levels and the Koryo - Taebaek for 1st dan and above.


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## Jim Tindell (Feb 22, 2005)

Kibon Hyung, Palgwe series, Koryo, Taebaek, Keumgang, etc.


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## Zepp (Feb 22, 2005)

We practice the Korean versions of the Japanese forms that were part of Chung Do Kwan curriculum until the introduction of the Palgue forms. The Pyong-an (Pinan) series, the Chul-gi (Nihanchi) series, Pal-sek (Bassai), etc. We also practice the first two forms of the Kukmu series, which were created by Grandmaster Son. The other four Kukmu's are are optional, and have been rarely practiced for some time. I don't know exactly why that is however (but I have a guess).


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## DuneViking (Feb 23, 2005)

rmclain,
I don't think the number of forms learned is important compared to the quality and the amount of study and sweat put into it. 

AMEN!!!


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## MichiganTKD (Feb 23, 2005)

I have never heard of an organization that used black belt forms in its color belt curriculum. For some reason, I highly doubt that gup students are accomplished enough to do Koryo, Kumgang, or Taebaek and make them look convincing. There is a reason why they are black belt forms.


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## FearlessFreep (Feb 23, 2005)

We only do Taeguk, at least through the lower gup ranks that I've seen.  We only do them on Monday's (plus personal practice) but we put a lot of emphasis on good form (crisp, powerful, sharp moves,  good balance and foot placement, powerful strikes)


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## bluemtn (Feb 23, 2005)

At my school we have 21 forms (hyung) altogether, but it's hard for me to name all of them because I've only learned a little less than half of them.

White: Kukmu 1, 2
Yellowyong 1, 2, Kukmu 3
Green:  (pyong 2 improvement shown) Pyong 3, Chien
Purple- this is where I'm not certain, but I'll know what they are in 3 weeks! Yippee!!!! Well, at least for purple belt. Kukmu 4, 5 and I think pyong 4

Brown and black belts have Palsek, Coryo, and a few others- this is where I definitely draw a blank. The way I learned those names is by overhearing them in practice.


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## rmclain (Feb 23, 2005)

MichiganTKD said:
			
		

> I have never heard of an organization that used black belt forms in its color belt curriculum. For some reason, I highly doubt that gup students are accomplished enough to do Koryo, Kumgang, or Taebaek and make them look convincing. There is a reason why they are black belt forms.


I understand your confusion on this since they were originally meant to be black belt forms when they were created.

My teacher was one of the Korean Masters in attendance when those forms were created and introduced by the Korean Taekwondo Association in Korea, December 1967.  He immigrated to the US on January 16, 1968 and was the first to introduce and teach those forms in America.  Many instructors sent their black belt to learn these "new" forms from Korea from him at the time. 
http://www.kimsookarate.com/gallery-first30/firstclinic.html

He added and placed the forms in our curriculum where he felt they were best suited.  I personally don't believe Koryo, Tae Baek, or Jee Tae are advanced forms.  There are much more advanced forms in our karate and Chuan-fa lineage, which is from the Chang Moo Kwan and Kang Duk Won.

As a colored belt I had the opportunity to train with black belt from other schools only teaching WTF style.  I found myself understanding and demonstrating the forms better and actually teaching them sometimes to these black belts.  At first, some had the same reaction as you, Michigan TKD, but when I explained the background of my teacher, all of them seemed to appreciate me helping them with their forms.

R. McLain


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## Miles (Feb 25, 2005)

I study and teach the Taeguek series and the Kukkiwon's black belt poomsae (Koryo, Keumgang, etc.).  Poomsae are like onions, you keep peeling off one layer and discover another.

 R McLain, I have 2 of your instructor's books, but have not been able to find the last on Palgue series (i.e. 7 & 8).  Was this book ever completed/published?

 Miles


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## rmclain (Feb 25, 2005)

Hi Miles,

Yes, Palgue 7 & 8 was published in either the late 1970's or around 1980.  It has a green cover and is titled, "Palgue 7 & 8 of Taekwondo Hyung."  The publisher was Ohara if I remember correctly.

You can order directly from Grandmaster Kim Soo on his web site, http://www.kimsookarate.com/misc-pages/books.html    I believe he will autograph it if you order from him. He is very friendly and would welcome your call if you would like to speak with him.

I don't know if Taekwondo Times has listings for the book, but I haven't seen it in Black Belt Magazine in years.  Our local martial arts supply store usually carries a few copies of each book.

R. McLain


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## Spookey (Feb 26, 2005)

Dear All,


Our dojang practices the complete hyungs of Chang Hon (including Ko-Dang)...the original katas practiced by the Oh Do Kwan (Nihanchi, Bassai) are available to BB's but are not a requirement.

TAEKWON!
Spooks


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## Miles (Feb 26, 2005)

rmclain said:
			
		

> Hi Miles,
> 
> Yes, Palgue 7 & 8 was published in either the late 1970's or around 1980. It has a green cover and is titled, "Palgue 7 & 8 of Taekwondo Hyung." The publisher was Ohara if I remember correctly....


 Thank you sir!  I will do that.  I hate to have part of a series....

 Miles


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## Faye (Mar 1, 2005)

In our traditional Taekwondo school, at least for blue belts or lower, we do Pinan (Pyung Ahn 1-5) forms.  And i know the brown belts do these weird looking forms called "phonetically" basana... or something like that.


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## DuneViking (Mar 1, 2005)

Interesting, I have never heard of basana form series (yes I I have lead a shelterd life ). Do you happen, or does anyone posting hear know of a website with information on them? Thanks again all for the input! :asian:


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## Faye (Mar 3, 2005)

Terribly sorry, since I am not up to that level yet,  I looked it up at school and it's one single form called:  Bassai Dai
Not sure what that is, it's interesting to watch though.


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## DuneViking (Mar 4, 2005)

Faye said:
			
		

> Terribly sorry, since I am not up to that level yet, I looked it up at school and it's one single form called: Bassai Dai
> Not sure what that is, it's interesting to watch though.


Thanks, familiar with Bassai dai or first Bassai (ref:see also Bassai Sho, 2nd Bassai). Japanese roots (Shotokan?), also done in many other styles including Korean TKD and TSD, at least in the early development of them. Follow up appreciated!


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## Tswolfman (Mar 13, 2005)

Its Nice to Know im not the Only School that does lots of Different Forms.

(10th Gup) Ki Cho il Dan, Ki Cho Ee Dan
(9th Gup) Ki Cho Sam Dan, Chun Ji, Tan Gun
(8th Gup) Palgae il Dan, Taegi il Dan, Do San
(7th Gup) Palgae Ee Dan, Taegi Ee Dan, Won Hyo, Pyung Ahn il Dan
(6th Gup) Palgae Sam Dan, Taegi Sam Dan, Yul Kok, Pyung Ahn Ee Dan
(5th Gup) Palgae Sa Dan, Taegi Sa Dan, Chung Gun, Pyung Ahn Sam Dan
(4th Gup) Palgae Oh Dan, Taegi Oh Dan, Toi Gye, Pyung Ahn Sa Dan
(3rd Gup) Palgae Yook Dan, Taegi Yook Dan, Hwa Rwang, Pyung Ahn Oh Dan
(2nd Gup) Palgae Chil Dan, Taegi Chil Dan, Chung Moo, Kukki il Dan,Ro Hai
(1st Gup) Palgae Pal Dan, Taegi Pal Dan, Kwang Gae, Kukki Ee Dan, Empi, 
              Bassai Dae

(1st Dan) Koryo, Kukki Sam Dan, Bassai Sho, Po Eun, Ge Baek, Eui Am
(2nd Dan) Keum Gam, Jin do, Choong Jang, Ko Dang, Sam il
(3rd Dan) Tae Baek, Yoo Sin, Choi Yong, Yon Ge
(4th Dan) Pyong Won, Ul Ji, Moon Moo, So San
(5th Dan) Sip Jin, Se Jong, Tong il

Above that i'm Not tottally Sure About I do know to be an Instructor you need to know them all but just to reach Black belt and attain other Ranks it is 2 per Level required and to learn certain ones you need to know all lower poomse of that set. For Example if you are first Gup and you want to learn Palgae Pal Dan. You Have to Have Learned all Previous Palgae Forms same Goes for Taegi, Pyung Ahn, Kukki, Ki Cho, And Chun Ji Series(ITF) Also  to test for Black Belt You Are Required to know either all 8 Palgae or All 8 Taegi Poomse.


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## rainbows (Mar 14, 2005)

Wow, that's a lot of patterns...


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## MichiganTKD (Mar 14, 2005)

Wolfman,

How is it that you you do WTF forms and ITF forms at each gup level, and WTF/ITF forms at each Dan level. Why don't you do one or the other?

What are "Taegi" forms, by the way?


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## bignick (Mar 14, 2005)

I think he means the tae guk forms...

 I don't know, if you ask me, more isn't always better


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## MichiganTKD (Mar 14, 2005)

I would agree. The brain can overload with too many techniques or forms to learn. Kind of like belts. Too many is not good for you.


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## DuneViking (Mar 16, 2005)

Greetings,

Thanks for all the continuing posts.

I agree, too many can overload your system!!


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## searcher (Mar 21, 2005)

In TKD I do the Chong-han forms.   In my Chito-ryu karate we do a mixture of the Shorin-ryu and Shorei-ryu kata.  24 forms in TKD, around 35 kata in Chito-ryu.   

The number of Hyungs, kata, kuen that a style has can vary quite a bit.  For instance some Shito-ryu schools have 60 empty hand and several weapons kata.


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## ResqYou (Dec 27, 2006)

we shall soon see, lol......but i will inform on what i learn of this. that is why im looking for videos of the poomse for white belt in tkd, online or dvd


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## matt.m (Dec 28, 2006)

Under GM Hildebrand at the St. L school we do Tae Guek 1-8 and the Chang Hon tuls 1-8.  So for each belt there is the ITF and WTF forms.  It is a lot to learn sure, but it makes for a more rounded TKDist.  I also know that for 2nd and 1st gup....brown then red there are three poomse per test. I have no earthly idea what the third one will be from, but I don't think they are Palgwe.  I will find out tonight and let you know.


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## scottt (Dec 28, 2006)

I see lots of schools doing a mixes of lots of forms.  That's interesting - I've always just learned the mandatory WTF forms: taegeuk 1-8 during the coloured belt days, then  the black belt patters: Koryo, Keumgang, Taebek, Pyonwon.  My next one is Shipjin I believe.

In some of the posts above it looks like there are some but not all of the black-belt patterns as I've learned them.  Do some of you learn say Koryo, then Taebek and not Keumgang?

If so, is your school ITF or something else, or a combination of influences?


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## RED (Dec 28, 2006)

First school and first love is the ITF forms 

now I study WTF forms Palgues


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## terryl965 (Dec 28, 2006)

RED said:


> First school and first love is the ITF forms
> 
> now I study WTF forms Palgues


 

I love the Chon-Ji set as well, now it is the Tae Gueks mainly for competition reasons


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## IcemanSK (Jan 9, 2007)

In the Us Chung Do Kwan Association we do the Tae Guek poomsae & Koryo, Guemgang, etc. We also do Da'lee Hyungs (poomsae that GM Ed Sell created) & Bassai. GM Brenda Sell created one that we do for 4th Dan.

I have also enjoyed doing the Pal Gwe poomsae & Chang Hon tul in my early training.


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## exile (Jan 9, 2007)

We do the three Kichos, then Palgwes 1 through 8, Koryo and several other BB poomsae for Dan, and as a special treat, my instructor will teach you the Pinans if you ask nicely :wink1:.

My own feeling is, I'd rather learn a very few hyungs really well (i.e., understand the bunkai/oyo in depth, training those apps in combat-based sparring). It's well known that the old Okinawan karateka used to train only a few katawhich were regarded not as part of a single MA, but as actual MA _styles_ themselves; so the Pinans constituted a martial art unto themselves, Naihanchi (which Gichin Funakoshi studied for nine years as his main training in karate) a different art, and so on). I think there's enough depth in many of the TKD hyungs that one could do the same thing with two or three well chosen ones. The relatively huge number that people currently learn is probably more connected to the multiplication of belt ranks and the need to have a separate criterion for advancement to each of the belt levelsso hyung performance is recruited to fulfil this role...


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## Tae Kwon Dave (Jun 30, 2007)

DuneViking said:


> What Forms Poomse Hyung do you do? We started with Kichos and Palgwes, added the old Pyungs, now Taegeuks plus advanced forms-yikes! makes my head spin!! How 'bout y'all?


 
In my dojang, Mudokwan Tae Kwon Do, we study :

1. Tae Kwon Do official W.T.F. Poomse (Taegeuk Poomse and Yudanja Poomse : koryo, keumgang, etc.)

2. Korean Karate hyungs : kibon hyung 1-3, pyung ahn 1-5, chul-ki/naihanchi 1-3, kongsangkoon dae and cho, palsek dae and cho, rohai 1-2-3, etc...


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## Tswolfman (Jun 30, 2007)

Required for my students

1. Kicho's 1-3
2. Chun gi
3. Palgae 1-8
4. Taegae 1-8
5. Chun mu
6. Bassai
7. Rohai
8. Empi
9. Chul gi 1-3 (nihachi or Ironhorse 1-3)
10. Koryo , Kuemgang, Taebeak, Pyoungwon ........

Extra Credit forms
1. Pyoung-ahn 1-5
2. Remaining ITF Forms
3. any other Shotokan Kata
me presonally i train my self in all of the above forms and others as i cross train in other arts also. Althouh i find this is too many forms i do find Value in each and every form so i cringe to take any out of my students curriculum


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## Kacey (Jun 30, 2007)

We do the Ch'ang H'on (ITF) pattern set.


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## matt.m (Jul 11, 2007)

TaeGuek and Chang Hon  Yikes sorry for the double post.


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## cali_tkdbruin (Jul 13, 2007)

doc clean said:


> Kibbon, Taeguks, Palgues, Black belt forms (Koryo, Taebek)



Me too, all those forms including Kum Gang. Poomse training, good stuff. Many TKD practitioners I meet, especially the younger ones don't like to practice their forms. They think it's boring. Poomse, in addition to kyurooki are my own favorite parts of Taekwondo.:ultracool


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## McZ (Jul 14, 2007)

i know some forms of WTF and ITF (for tournaments) and TSD.


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