# Hypnosis and Wing chun English version



## poulperadieux (Jan 23, 2013)

http://poulperadieux.com/2013/01/22/hypnosis-in-wing-chun-english-version/


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## Argus (Jan 24, 2013)

I'm going to be very honest here. It is a good thing to be open minded and polite, especially in a public forum, but I think it is still more important to place value on the truth. Martial arts in particular is a place where many people are mislead, and often subscribe to, and place far too much emphasis on "magic." After watching your videos - in particular your forms, and this video, and after reading your blog, I am concerned that you are being mislead.

Proficiency in any martial art does not come through "magic;" it does not come through tricks or gimmicks like hypnosis or special workouts. As with anything in life, it comes only through _good_ practice and hard work.

Though I realize you deal with forms in the other thread, I will use an example here. In your thread, and on your site, you say that Siu Nim Tau is an exercise, and that its main purpose is to cultivate "power." And indeed, you play it not at all as a place to practice form, structure, energy, or technique, but as some kind of weird and wonderful exercise routine:


>


In your post, you also assert that:


> _*Following this logic, seems obvious Biu Jee should be taught first.
> *_Than Siu Lim Tao for the power cultivation, and, later, to my point of view, Chum Kiu.



This is equivalent to learning to write the alphabet with huge, distorted strokes in order to give the wrist a better workout. Which is more important? The endurance of my wrist, or my ability to write legibly and with good technique? What advantage does a good wrist give me if I practice writing illegible characters?

Likewise, what advantage does learning Biu Jee - a form that breaks many of WC's rules and principles in order to attempt to recover from serious errors - when one has not even learned to avoid such errors in the first place, and has no concept of proper structure or technique to begin with? You'll be using that Biu Jee quite a lot, and not to good effect I'll wager. It's like building a house without a foundation, and then installing safety features in case it collapses on you.

My honest, truthful advice: quit focusing on the magic, and focus on the foundation.


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## poulperadieux (Jan 24, 2013)

Argus said:


> I'm going to be very honest here. It is a good thing to be open minded and polite, especially in a public forum, but I think it is still more important to place value on the truth. Martial arts in particular is a place where many people are mislead, and often subscribe to, and place far too much emphasis on "magic." After watching your videos - in particular your forms, and this video, and after reading your blog, I am concerned that you are being mislead.
> 
> Proficiency in any martial art does not come through "magic;" it does not come through tricks or gimmicks like hypnosis or special workouts. As with anything in life, it comes only through _good_ practice and hard work.
> 
> ...



Hypnosis isn't magic...

It's seriously studied in medecine and used for over 20 years...
Got a lot of studies under IRMf and PET scan have been conducted and showed a lot of evidence on witch cerebral zones are activated under Hypnosis.
I explain it more in detail in French, but you can find serious references in the Lancet for years or in neoropsychiatrist magazines.

In France, It tends to be developped more and more in obstetric, pain management, and in neuropsychiatry, especially for obsessionnal and compulsive disorders and other stuff.

Seriously, read a bit some medical stuff on hypnosis, and quit watching TV, gives you false ideas on life.
In my video, I'm not showing twilight vampire or soap opera stuff, but clinical techniques, validated, and well studied for a long time for their efficiency in developping various cognitive processes.

The peripheric vision induction is an hell of a tool for Siu Lim Tao training, and combat training, and Hypnosis is a formidable tool to make beginner discover, and explore these states on their own, as I explain a bit in my video.

Hypnosis is not magic, it's serious training and can lead to improvements in learning and teaching chi sao for example, as it allows the student to developp more attention and empathy.

The Way I do Siu Lim Tao is inspired by the way, Kenneth Cheung, student of Leung Sheun, first closed door student of Yip man, does it.
I focused on hard work on the foundations, soft power cultivation and other stuff.

If you don't know these teaching, I won't blame you, difficult to get some intel on this confindential and discrete lineage, though I'm not a reprensentative member of their school, I'm only a Vagabond.



> This is equivalent to learning to write the alphabet with huge,  distorted strokes in order to give the wrist a better workout. Which is  more important? The endurance of my wrist, or my ability to write  legibly and with good technique? What advantage does a good wrist give  me if I practice writing illegible characters?



Your point of view is not new, already, in french fencing manual, from the XVIIIth century, masters recommanded to put a blade in the noob's hands first, make him do assaults, and refine his skills during the practice, and than doing the refined technique.
At this time, like you, some Italian teachers clamed heresy by hearing such French methods.

That's around this time that French Fencing took a severe leading over the Italians, and the Spanish.

The idea of teaching biu jee first is not mine, comes from a student of the KC's lineage I like to read, and it's quite efficient for the students.

You teach them the foot work, the biu jee, you let them play, you give them sparring, and than, you can propose the boring stuff that gives Wing Chunit's flavor, sucha as Siu Lim Tao.

Footwork first, than foundations, a little every day.
But one need to learn how to move before rooting like a tree, or else, you are just a wooden dummy, or a sandbag, not quite a fighter.


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## mook jong man (Jan 24, 2013)

One of the reasons Bil Gee is not taught first is quite simple.
There are a lot of movements in Bil Gee where the arms are quite extended , if you were to use these applications in a real fight without a prior foundation in Siu Lim Tao or Chum Kiu then they could be used against you in the form of joint locking or other manipulations.

One of the main concepts in Bil Gee is to learn to transmit the power from rotation into the palms and fingers , you can't do that if you haven't developed a decent level of skill in pivoting which is gained from the practice of Chum Kiu.

Further more , to have the best effect and generate the most power in Bil Gee applications they must be done at high speed.
The pivoting and elbow rotation sequences in the Bil Gee form in particular must be done quite fast , if you haven't put the time in and have a firm grasp of the earlier two forms then there is probably quite a good chance you will injure your back.

The forms are learned in a certain order for very good reasons , these reasons become more self evident the longer you train.


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## poulperadieux (Jan 25, 2013)

mook jong man said:


> One of the reasons Bil Gee is not taught first is quite simple.
> There are a lot of movements in Bil Gee where the arms are quite extended , if you were to use these applications in a real fight without a prior foundation in Siu Lim Tao or Chum Kiu then they could be used against you in the form of joint locking or other manipulations.




Funny how old fencing manual stuff keep on running in 2013 !!
That's exacly a point I read not long ago : "Do the student realize that they must make the moves shorter in actual fight? The answer was : YES", and it's mine also.

I explain it in this video I made for the forum, after I posted my forms.






Someone said that if you practice the palm strike full extended in the forms, you'll do it like E. Honda in real fights... Not in a dream.



> One of the main concepts in Bil Gee is to learn to transmit the power from rotation into the palms and fingers , you can't do that if you haven't developed a decent level of skill in pivoting which is gained from the practice of Chum Kiu.



Yeap, certanly, but practicing Biu Jee early can help you find ideas for fights, early, better than the moves in the other forms.
The power comes later.



> Further more , to have the best effect and generate the most power in Bil Gee applications they must be done at high speed.



Nope.
With correct stance, the speed is not htat important, what's important is the timing. The ability to be at the good place, at the better and most apropriate time regarding the situation.

That's not a thing you learn in forms, but in fights. And you must learn it early, beginners should learn it the first day, have a lot of experience when their body realize what the foundations are.




> The pivoting and elbow rotation sequences in the Bil Gee form in particular must be done quite fast , if you haven't put the time in and have a firm grasp of the earlier two forms then there is probably quite a good chance you will injure your back.



Nooo, who told you that? Human body is solid, and beginners tend to work at a... beginner pace, if taught correctly.



> The forms are learned in a certain order for very good reasons , these reasons become more self evident the longer you train.



That's my point, the more I practice, the more I teach and observe my student's progresses and compare with my own, the more I'm convinced this method is not bad at all, try it if you teach, you'll see.

I was told that, in old times, when you had to teach fast beacause students had to learn fast how to defend or to attack, they were taught biu jee and mook jong first.

Because Biu jee contains the Third rate techniques, the crappy ones, the ones that are easy to understand.

I wrote an article about that here :

http://poulperadieux.com/2012/11/20...rs-biu-jee-secrecy-in-wing-chun-french-video/


Siu lim tao is not for beginners, it's a subtle, build for masters form.
One can be taught stances for foundations, and later siu lim tao.

What's important, in actual fights, is the footwork, power comes from the legs, and the back, not the arms.
And what's important in a fight, is to keep on moving, especially if you are a beginner, and weaker than your opponent.

You can stay rooted and cool when you are a master, but before, just keep on moving little padawan.


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## mook jong man (Jan 25, 2013)

_*Learning Bil Gee first , is a bit like trying to drive one of these.*_











_*When you can't even drive one of these properly yet.*_


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## WTchap (Jan 25, 2013)

I would agree, generally speaking, that the Biu Tse form should come after Chum Kiu. That said, I read recently that Wong Shun Leung (not my lineage) would often teach students the first three forms, chi sau and part of the dummy form, within the first 18 months of training. He taught BT after CK, but if you are being taught so much, so quickly, it is almost like a beginner learning them in another order/sequence, IMO. So horses for courses. Who am I to argue with the likes of WSL!!!  

But for me, BT is best taught after CK for reasons of timing (in relation to the timing involved in bridging/attacking an opponent). In BT applications (in the WT way of things), you are often entering/connecting with the opponent at a 'later' stage of their attack. That is to say, the opponent's attacks are a little bit closer to hitting you when you engage them. Of course, later timing like this has its own risks, and for beginners I think it is better to get them working with a more 'regular sense of timing' first (instinctively, people kinda time their responses at a uniformed pace).

Rather like if I pass you a basketball. When I stand, say 30 feet away from you and throw the ball to you, most people will raise their arms to catch it at the same time (when the ball is in approximately the same place, flying through the air towards them). If they used BT timing to catch the ball (yes, I know how stupid this is sounding), it would mean they raise their arms to catch the ball kinda at the last moment.

For a beginner, if I passed the ball hard and they tried to catch the ball with this 'type' of timing, they'd more often than not catch it with their face.


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## mook jong man (Jan 25, 2013)

Just for a moment lets say we entertain this notion of an innovative new teaching progression  and pretend its not too wacky , just for a moment.
If your teaching Bil Gee first , how is the student supposed to spar or even learn Chi Sau *when the basic movements of Chi Sau are found in the Sil Lum Tao form*.

Tan , Fook and Bong , the key movements of Chi Sau are introduced in the SLT form , but in this guys curriculum he will have them doing Bil Gee and Chum Kiu before they even know what a Bong Sau looks like


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## poulperadieux (Jan 25, 2013)

WTchap said:


> I would agree, generally speaking, that the Biu Tse form should come after Chum Kiu. That said, I read recently that Wong Shun Leung (not my lineage) would often teach students the first three forms, chi sau and part of the dummy form, within the first 18 months of training. He taught BT after CK, but if you are being taught so much, so quickly, it is almost like a beginner learning them in another order/sequence, IMO. So horses for courses. Who am I to argue with the likes of WSL!!!
> 
> But for me, BT is best taught after CK for reasons of timing (in relation to the timing involved in bridging/attacking an opponent). In BT applications (in the WT way of things), you are often entering/connecting with the opponent at a 'later' stage of their attack. That is to say, the opponent's attacks are a little bit closer to hitting you when you engage them. Of course, later timing like this has its own risks, and for beginners I think it is better to get them working with a more 'regular sense of timing' first (instinctively, people kinda time their responses at a uniformed pace).
> 
> ...




Uwwwh, Lucky Wing Chun isn't used to learn Basket ball so !

Try teaching Biu Jee to a beginner, it's easy, easier than to teach Chum kiu.

I think that CK is the most difficult one, as it's the one that makes the bridge between SLT and BJ.

My opinion uh, my students, my school.


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## poulperadieux (Jan 25, 2013)

mook jong man said:


> Just for a moment lets say we entertain this notion of an innovative new teaching progression  and pretend its not too wacky , just for a moment.
> If your teaching Bil Gee first , how is the student supposed to spar or even learn Chi Sau *when the basic movements of Chi Sau are found in the Sil Lum Tao form*.
> 
> Tan , Fook and Bong , the key movements of Chi Sau are introduced in the SLT form , but in this guys curriculum he will have them doing Bil Gee and Chum Kiu before they even know what a Bong Sau looks like



Ain't new, read the excellent book on the wooden dummy by Karl Godwin from Kenneth Cheung Lineage, it's said that it was used to be taught that way.

Another great man I do respect, but who is not teaching Wing Chun, Su Dong Chen, for example, says forms and stance training are useless, he starts with noob by teaching how to move.

He rejected the traditionnal stuff, and he's one of the most talented martial artist, and heir of traditions of the last century, and still alive.












And, for your point... uh, do you think you cannot teach someone how to stick hands without teaching him the forms? Seriously?

Forms are stuff you work alone, with a teacher, you want to learn a bong, you learn da bong, dammit !:xwing:


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## Uncle (Jan 25, 2013)

poulperadieux said:


> Ain't new, read the excellent book on the wooden dummy by Karl Godwin from Kenneth Cheung Lineage, it's said that it was used to be taught that way.


Actually the way it was traditionally taught was you learned all of the forms in the proper order (slt, ck, bj, myj) before even starting chi sao.



poulperadieux said:


> Another great man I do respect, but who is not teaching Wing Chun, Su Dong Chen, for example, says forms and stance training are useless, he starts with noob by teaching how to move.


If you teach them to move first they'll never learn the basic method of power generation properly to integrate it with their stance work. SLT teaches power in one dimension, CK in two, BJ in three, and the Jong is 3 + 1 because of the additional footwork.



poulperadieux said:


> He rejected the traditionnal stuff, and he's one of the most talented martial artist, and heir of traditions of the last century, and still alive.


I'm sure in your mind that's talent but it's a different system entirely and the two man drill he's showing in one of the videos is a form.




poulperadieux said:


> And, for your point... uh, do you think you cannot teach someone how to stick hands without teaching him the forms? Seriously?


Not if you want them to have proper mechanics. Siu lim tao and chum kiu are the foundations of the system.



poulperadieux said:


> Forms are stuff you work alone, with a teacher, you want to learn a bong, you learn da bong, dammit !


Forms teach you the proper method of movement, structure, and power and must be corrected by a good teacher.


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## mook jong man (Jan 25, 2013)

poulperadieux said:


> *And, for your point... uh, do you think you cannot teach someone how to stick hands without teaching him the forms? Seriously?*



Yes I do actually , seriously.


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## poulperadieux (Jan 25, 2013)

Uncle said:


> If you teach them to move first they'll never learn the basic method of power generation properly to integrate it with their stance work. SLT teaches power in one dimension, CK in two, BJ in three, and the Jong is 3 + 1 because of the additional footwork.



Uh... I tried, it works pretty well, and it's faster than the way I learnt it.

The scientist say the bumblebee can't fly, but the bumblebee doesn't know it so it works all the same.
You never know until you try.




> I'm sure in your mind that's talent but it's a different system entirely and the two man drill he's showing in one of the videos is a form.



Su dong chen rejected stances overwork, not forms. Actually, his forms are full of micro movements.
And he's very talented yes.





> Not if you want them to have proper mechanics. Siu lim tao and chum kiu are the foundations of the system.



That can be taught later, first move, than learn how to build a solid stance.
But, in order to fight, and fight is the real teacher in gong fu, you must know the footwork first, the techniques comes later.




> Forms teach you the proper method of movement, structure, and power and must be corrected by a good teacher.



Yeah, I do agree on that one.


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## poulperadieux (Jan 25, 2013)

mook jong man said:


> Yes I do actually , seriously.



Don't you imagine teaching a noob only fight and chisao for 3 months without showing him the forms, because he's got a fight and he must learn quickly?

One of my student follows the tree forms and start to stick the hands pretty well, she started with biu jee and made her first spar with me last week, but she cheated, she's a girl.
She didn't mind learn BJ first, and she finds Chum kiu a pain in the ***.

The real teachers are the students themselves.


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## Uncle (Jan 25, 2013)

poulperadieux said:


> Uh... I tried, it works pretty well, and it's faster than the way I learnt it.
> 
> The scientist say the bumblebee can't fly, but the bumblebee doesn't know it so it works all the same.
> You never know until you try.


I hope you're not dumb enough to believe that rather idiotic footnote.
http://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/5400/description/Flight_of_the_Bumblebee




poulperadieux said:


> Su dong chen rejected stances overwork, not forms. Actually, his forms are full of micro movements.
> And he's very talented yes.


Stance is the foundation of footwork. And if you say so 




poulperadieux said:


> That can be taught later, first move, than learn how to build a solid stance.
> But, in order to fight, and fight is the real teacher in gong fu, you must know the footwork first, the techniques comes later.


You're trying to build a tank by strapping a badly build gun onto a wheel. Thee footwork come from the stance training in siu lim tao, THEN the linear movement in chum kiu and biu jee, and only then the chute bo.
And if you believe that fighting is where you get your instruction you may as well give up training anything and just spar for a few hours every day because clearly the system of training is worthless to you.


By the way what ARE your qualifications?

And no one is going to learn to fight well in 3 months whether you teach biu jee first or do it the proper way.


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## mook jong man (Jan 25, 2013)

poulperadieux said:


> Don't you imagine teaching a noob only fight and chisao for 3 months without showing him the forms, because he's got a fight and he must learn quickly?
> 
> One of my student follows the tree forms and start to stick the hands pretty well, she started with biu jee and made her first spar with me last week, but she cheated, she's a girl.
> She didn't mind learn BJ first, and she finds Chum kiu a pain in the ***.
> ...



I feel sorry for your students mate.


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## poulperadieux (Jan 25, 2013)

Uncle said:


> I hope you're not dumb enough to believe that rather idiotic footnote.
> http://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/5400/description/Flight_of_the_Bumblebee




Yeah I do !


>







> Stance is the foundation of footwork. And if you say so



I do agree, but one can lean, must learn the footwork before being bored by a stubborn teacher in boring and harsh stance work.




> You're trying to build a tank by strapping a badly build gun onto a wheel. Thee footwork come from the stance training in siu lim tao, THEN the linear movement in chum kiu and biu jee, and only then the chute bo.
> And if you believe that fighting is where you get your instruction you may as well give up training anything and just spar for a few hours every day because clearly the system of training is worthless to you.



By reading you, pure wing chun guys, I wonder how boxers can be soo badasses you don't dare challenge them and they don't even do stance work of forms... Like the Bumblebee.






"George can't hit what his hand can't see." Footwork is the basics, stance comes after, or never for some guys.

This Bumblebee didn't know siu lim tao, but some say he was the greatest, and he could fly, also.



> By the way what ARE your qualifications?



Tell yours first, question of courtesy.



> And no one is going to learn to fight well in 3 months whether you teach biu jee first or do it the proper way.



I started my first fight after 3 or 4 months, didn't end so bad.
Was fun.


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## poulperadieux (Jan 25, 2013)

mook jong man said:


> I feel sorry for your students mate.




Stay polite, or tell me where you teach, I do travel a lot !


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## Uncle (Jan 25, 2013)

poulperadieux said:


> Yeah I do !


Then you sir are a fool. Good day.



poulperadieux said:


> I do agree, but one can lean, must learn the footwork before being bored by a stubborn teacher in boring and harsh stance work.


If you can't endure what is required of you, if you cannot complete something more simple (siu lim tao) you can never grasp what is more ccomplex in the system (chum kiu, biu jee, the mook jong, and baat jaam do)



poulperadieux said:


> By reading you, pure wing chun guys, I wonder how boxers can be soo badasses you don't dare challenge them and they don't even do stance work of forms... Like the Bumblebee.


Actually I do box and do bjj and mma training.



poulperadieux said:


> "George can't hit what his hand can't see." Footwork is the basics, stance comes after, or never for some guys.


If you can't even stand you have no business trying to walk little one.




poulperadieux said:


> Tell yours first, question of courtesy.


You sir are being evasive in an attempt to hide your lack of qualifications. I asked you for yours. If you have nothing to hide please enlighten me as to what they are.



poulperadieux said:


> I started my first fight after 3 or 4 months, didn't end so bad.
> Was fun.


Your opponent must have been terrible.


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## poulperadieux (Jan 25, 2013)

This guy didn't know siu lim tao, never heard of Yi Chuan or Yinh Yi, but he knows the skip step footwork, how to hit fast and accurately with shoulder relaxed and he live in a faster space time dimension than his opponent.


What a waste if he was taught Wing Chun.


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## poulperadieux (Jan 25, 2013)

Uncle said:


> You sir are being evasive in an attempt to hide your lack of qualifications. I asked you for yours. If you have nothing to hide please enlighten me as to what they are.



No no, I have nothing to hide.
We french only discuss with polite fellows, we eat bizarre food and are stubborn people, damned us, you first, I may insist, I'll follow.



> Your opponent must have been terrible.


Indeed yes !
And more scared than me !

Won on a ko kick on the second round, I'll always remember the noise of my feet on his skull. I had a good taekwondo teacher, really practical.


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## Uncle (Jan 25, 2013)

And if you go to learn boxing you'll find that they have a system of instruction also. Teaching you how to do a ree hit combo before teaching a proper jab is essentially what you're proposing.

Now what are your teaching qualifications again pray tell?


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## Uncle (Jan 25, 2013)

Only if you have something to hide will you continue with this ridiculous evasion.


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## poulperadieux (Jan 25, 2013)

Uncle said:


> And if you go to learn boxing you'll find that they have a system of instruction also. Teaching you how to do a ree hit combo before teaching a proper jab is essentially what you're proposing.
> 
> Now what are your teaching qualifications again pray tell?



Yeah, I know, I did a little boxing...

But I didn't see tao during the courses, is it bad for the boxing fellows?
Won't they discover the ultimate pinnacle of gong fu?

I insist, you first !


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## poulperadieux (Jan 25, 2013)

Uncle said:


> Only if you have something to hide will you continue with this ridiculous evasion.



I find strange, as you ask me my CV, why you don't tell yours, It's my topic, my rules.
I promise, I won't let you down, shy fellow.


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## mook jong man (Jan 25, 2013)

poulperadieux said:


> Stay polite, or tell me where you teach, I do travel a lot !



That is me being polite.

I'm serious , you are short changing the students by not making them do all the basic stuff just because they think it is boring.
If they think it's boring to practice the SLT and Chum Kiu then just maybe Wing Chun is not the art for them.


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## poulperadieux (Jan 25, 2013)

mook jong man said:


> That is me being polite.
> 
> I'm serious , you are short changing the students by not making them do all the basic stuff just because they think it is boring.
> If they think it's boring to practice the SLT and Chum Kiu then just maybe Wing Chun is not the art for them.



No no no.

I, Myself, think it's boring starting with boring stuff.
I make the teaching the boring stuff after, I insist learning should be fun, so when you teach the boring stuff, it's not felt boring anymore.

Do you follow?

You don't lean anything with pain, you don't bore knowledge into people.

And, for some people, I refuse to teach wing chun, because some people can't learn wing chun, I just teach them some other stuff more suited for them.


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## Uncle (Jan 25, 2013)

Boxing has a system, wing chun has a system. They each do their own way. If you don't learn the jab you won't be doing three hit combos. It's the same with wing chun. No siu lim tao, no chum kiu, no chum kiu, no biu jee, and so on.

And since you will not tell me upon being asked without resorting to the childish and imbecillic ploy of "you first" I must conclude you are a fraud as evidenced by your lack of knowledge and inability to produce your lineage. Don't worry there are plenty of frauds who learned from YouTube.

As i asked first however, if you disclose your lineage I will gladly do the same.


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## poulperadieux (Jan 25, 2013)

Uncle said:


> Only if you have something to hide will you continue with this ridiculous evasion.




Ok ok, I surrender, I tell you :

I'm a yellow belt in Martial Talk.
And I'm a Vagabond, I have no master, no lineage.

And you guessed, I learned a lot from Youtube, got a lot of friends on Youtube also, they are just amazing teachers there, and in real life.


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## Uncle (Jan 25, 2013)

Since you so nicely obliged I'm a student of Moy Yat. I got to meet Ip Man before you were born.


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## poulperadieux (Jan 25, 2013)

Uncle said:


> Since you so nicely obliged I'm a student of Moy Yat. I got to meet Ip Man before you were born.




Really cool, how old are you senior student?
Can you tell me more, or else I'll give you a lasy resume of my journey in wing chun when I'll come back from my course tonight !


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## Uncle (Jan 25, 2013)

poulperadieux said:


> Really cool, how old are you senior student?
> Can you tell me more, or else I'll give you a lasy resume of my journey in wing chun when I'll come back from my course tonight !



In case you didnt get my subtle humor I was making fun of the fact that you tried to turn a simple, polite request over whom your instructor was and how long you've been training into an adolescent pissing match by going "you first" repeatedly in order to avoid answering the question.

Now are you ready to have a mature discussion?


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## Tez3 (Jan 25, 2013)

Are you two flirting with each other?


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## Uncle (Jan 25, 2013)

In his dreams Tez. You know you're the only one for me


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## Tez3 (Jan 25, 2013)

Uncle said:


> In his dreams Tez. You know you're the only one for me



Of course LOL, now will the Frenchman live up to the French reputation for being 'charment'?


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## Takai (Jan 25, 2013)

mook jong man said:


> That is me being polite.
> 
> I'm serious , you are short changing the students by not making them do all the basic stuff just because they think it is boring.
> If they think it's boring to practice the SLT and Chum Kiu then just maybe Wing Chun is not the art for them.



I happen to enjoy all the "boring" stuff. It is what makes the "fun" stuff work correctly. Could you get the "fun" stuff to work without the "boring" stuff...maybe. To train technique and movement without proper structure, root and the depth of knowledge required to make it work is inviting disaster.


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## poulperadieux (Jan 25, 2013)

Uncle said:


> In case you didnt get my subtle humor I was making fun of the fact that you tried to turn a simple, polite request over whom your instructor was and how long you've been training into an adolescent pissing match by going "you first" repeatedly in order to avoid answering the question.
> 
> Now are you ready to have a mature discussion?



On Hypnosis, sure, on your ego probems, nope !

So, you didn't ate at Yip's table? So lame.


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## poulperadieux (Jan 25, 2013)

Tez3 said:


> Are you two flirting with each other?



Now that you mention it, I was wondering !


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## Argus (Jan 26, 2013)

poulperadieux,

Why don't you find a traditional Wing Chun school, and train there first before forming so many preconceived notions?

Also, I would not subscribe to Kenneth Cheung's teachings. In Yip Man's early years of teaching, he moved around a lot. Many of his early students did not study under him long, and went off and started teaching on their own before they knew the system. They will say many things about how and what Yip Man taught in order to validate their own claims and practices. They are frauds, and their stories do not line up with any of Yip Man's real students.


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## poulperadieux (Jan 26, 2013)

Argus said:


> poulperadieux,
> 
> Why don't you find a traditional Wing Chun school, and train there first before forming so many preconceived notions?
> 
> Also, I would not subscribe to Kenneth Cheung's teachings. In Yip Man's early years of teaching, he moved around a lot. Many of his early students did not study under him long, and went off and started teaching on their own before they knew the system. They will say many things about how and what Yip Man taught in order to validate their own claims and practices. They are frauds, and their stories do not line up with any of Yip Man's real students.




Go see Kenneth Cheung some time, expand your way of thinking, visit other people, other school, and, If you come in Strasbourg, gimme an Email, I'll give you a free Lesson, promise.

Leung Seun is dead, TST is still alive, so, in wing chun family, as in every asian family, there are levels of respect, so right now, TST has the highest level of respect, than comes Kenneth Cheung...

Just for information if you are not aware of asian traditions.


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## poulperadieux (Jan 26, 2013)

Takai said:


> I happen to enjoy all the "boring" stuff. It is what makes the "fun" stuff work correctly. Could you get the "fun" stuff to work without the "boring" stuff...maybe. To train technique and movement without proper structure, root and the depth of knowledge required to make it work is inviting disaster.



Please...

Stop reading only the half I write, it's kinda annoying.


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## poulperadieux (Jan 26, 2013)

So, put apart personal attacks and egotic comments, nothing to say on the subject?


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## geezer (Jan 26, 2013)

poulperadieux said:


> So, put apart personal attacks and egotic comments, nothing to say on the subject?



OK, regarding that last video, I'll admit that it was late and I started to fall asleep trying to view that hypnosis stuff. So maybe hypnosis works! Or maybe I just have a short attention span. Sorry.


Anyway, Nico it would be helpful if you could share your background or lineage and influences. You've given  no information in your "personal profile" and while your forms clearly reflect an Ip Man lineage, they are not performed in a way that is familiar to me. So who have you studied with and what are your influences?

As for myself, I began briefly under an instructor of Augustine Fong and shortly after became a student of Leung Ting for about 12 years. I then stopped training altogether for many years until finally starting up again under my old friend and si-dai Jeff Webb in Austin, TX. and am a member of his "NVTO". I hope that's helpful.


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## poulperadieux (Jan 26, 2013)

geezer said:


> OK, regarding that last video, I'll admit that it was late and I started to fall asleep trying to view that hypnosis stuff. So maybe hypnosis works! Or maybe I just have a short attention span. Sorry.



Julia will be so sad hearing your comment, damn this girl is hot n' cool.




> Anyway, Nico it would be helpful if you could share your background or lineage and influences. You've given  no information in your "personal profile" and while your forms clearly reflect an Ip Man lineage, they are not performed in a way that is familiar to me. So who have you studied with and what are your influences?



I've studied, at first in a former Leung Ting Branch until the 2nd or 3rd technician, before I was in the taekwondo WTF stuff, than I got bored when I moved to Paris by the "teachers" of my lineage than, so I quit the school, I go visit every school of Paris, make some friends, train exclusively outside.

learned my first mook jong routines from à Donald Mak family student, than I got a suppa sayan black teacher of the death for Vinh Xuan, Wan kam Leung Stuff, Yang tai chi and Muay Boran.

I met one of the two Yang tai chi badasses next to my training spot, gave me some tips for free, still friends, he learnt a lot with Yan wing ming or something like that.
Did some Bajiquan with a friend, study alone, Bajiquan is so cool.

Went to the 3rd or 4th technician with a leung ting derivated teacher who taught me nearly for free for 3 or 4 years don't remember, than or at the same time I met Kenneth Cheung and was really moved and interested by his pure badass yin power approach, so changed mine drastically.

Nearly stopped working german leung ting stuff than.

Went to see 3 days free trial at Drago's academy 2 years ago, convinced me I was far, really far from the german approach, too yang for me.

And, I taught outside in parcs for 4 years, inside for a few months, I pass a diploma to become a sports teacher this year.


Professionnaly, I used to be a Doctor 10 years ago, than I became an optometrist, than consultant as a specialist in specialized hard contact lenses for cornea dystrophia, I helped a lot mounting surgery wards and other stuff.

Now I also teach Hypnosis for free in Bars, tend to thrill and amaze people, I'll begin therapy next year after I'll pass a formation in med school as I applied recently.


Or Something like that.

Other questions?

Ah yes?

My Lineage?

I want to keep being respectful and stuff, but... **** Lineages, I'm a ****ing Bohemian.

Voila.


Thanks for Introcducing yourself Geezer.


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## O'Malley (Jan 26, 2013)

Well, I know nothing about WC but I'll give my opinion on that video from a hypnotist point of view.

First, poulperadieux, I guess you usually hypnotize her in French so it's surprising how well she seems to respond to your English suggestions, although you smartly used the snapping of your fingers (which obviously remains the same in every language) as a trigger to induce sleep. This shows that she's really suggestible or that she was trained quite often to respond to you (or that she didn't want to embarass you xD )

The basis of hypnosis is persuading your subject that you can walk the talk. If the induction is done correctly she should feel that her field of vision has bettered (as shown in the video).  It's all in her head, maybe it would translate as her being more aware of her surroundings. Whether it really works from an objective point of view or not I can't tell, though. Personally, I would use hypnosis to help the students be more confident (not only in MA but in life as well). Another interesting application of hypnosis would be to induce hyperesthesia to make them more aware of their bodies (maybe during the forms training?).

That being said, there is another part of this thread that I want to react to.

Basically, you're teaching your students a somewhat intermediate form before teaching the basics, right? As an ex water-polo player, I'll use a swimming metaphor 
You have to learn how to keep your head out of the water before learning how to move around. If you only do the moves on earth and then jump in the pool thinking that you can swim I hope the lifeguard has good reflexes. Same here, you need to learn the basic stance before moving around in it simply because the body mechanics are different and that you can develop bad habits if your foundations aren't solid. It reminds me of some boxers who use the "swing" a lot. "Oh, that move is so powerful, the coach is a dumbass for yelling at me when I do it, I've already knocked out a guy with it!" until the day they face a boxer with good basics and they get that compact textbook right cross right on the nose. Believe me, it's a pain in the *** to unlearn such bad habits.

Also, about lineages, they are the proof that you have been taught the original art. Some are honest and say they made up their own style (e.g. Wing Tai by Heinrich Pfaff) but others just look at videos on Youtube or practice in their garage and then claim to teach Wing Chun. Those are unable to provide their lineage and are considered as scams because that's what they are. I'll end my post with a very cliché metaphor: as a Frenchman, I don't think you would like a bottle of Estonian low-quality wine* having a tag with "Romanée Conti" on it. Lineages are the "controlled designation of origin" of martial arts 

*Didn't mean to offend any Estonian wine producer.


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## geezer (Jan 26, 2013)

Nico, i thought I recognized a Leung Ting/EWTO influence in the movement sequences of your forms, but not at all in the energy quality. I sympathize with your effort to do your own thing. It's hard for an independent minded "Bohemian" soul to fit into the authoritarian structure of some of the traditional schools. I remember sometimes really pissing off my old sifu, LT --quite unintentionally, by asking questions or by experimenting creatively with things before he felt I was ready. Kind of a culture clash I suppose. I guess that's one reason I'm actually happier to be with an independent group now. LT had amazing skills, but I don't have the ability (or the desire) to be just like him. 

Besides, as you pointed out, there is a lot of cool stuff out there. You mentioned bajiquan. Definitely cool.









And for an especially yang or "hard" interpretation:





Regardless, that stuff is a bit to rough on the body for me ...getting a bit old for that, so I round out my Ving Chun with Escrima. Here are some clips of Rene from the period when I trained under him. When I feel the need to express some more "yang" energy, this is how I like to rock it:


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## O'Malley (Jan 26, 2013)

Oh the Sinawali is my favorite part of the art! It's so cool when you have a good flow! I remember my Warriors Eskrima teacher showing "heaven six" to me and me getting it down quite well on the first try. My instructor was impressed and it obviously pissed off my mate hahaha


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## poulperadieux (Jan 27, 2013)

O'Malley said:


> Well, I know nothing about WC but I'll give my opinion on that video from a hypnotist point of view.
> 
> First, poulperadieux, I guess you usually hypnotize her in French so it's surprising how well she seems to respond to your English suggestions, although you smartly used the snapping of your fingers (which obviously remains the same in every language) as a trigger to induce sleep. This shows that she's really suggestible or that she was trained quite often to respond to you (or that she didn't want to embarass you xD )




She's learning Hypnosis, but, the first time I saw her, she was gone in 30 seconds.
Actually, most of my subjects are gone in 1 or 2 minutes after a pre talk, or else I usually fail.



> The basis of hypnosis is persuading your subject that you can walk the talk. If the induction is done correctly she should feel that her field of vision has bettered (as shown in the video).



And, what do you do about the tunnel vision during the induction?




> It's all in her head, maybe it would translate as her being more aware of her surroundings.





> Whether it really works from an objective point of view or not I can't tell, though.




The first time I heard of these technique, it was from a former international bodygard who trained gong fu (can't say witch one, as I can't put it in my CV sorry) with a taoist teacher in China.



> Personally, I would use hypnosis to help the students be more confident (not only in MA but in life as well). Another interesting application of hypnosis would be to induce hyperesthesia to make them more aware of their bodies (maybe during the forms training?).



So they feel  more pain? Naaah.

If you induce a trance, you create a rapport, so the communication , the non verbal communication during chi sao is easier.
And they get less frustrated and nervous, and irritated by fails.
You created a strong connecion and you observe rapid progresses.
Spectacular ones if you compare with regular students.





> Basically, you're teaching your students a somewhat intermediate form before teaching the basics, right?



Wrong, 

Beginners, intermediate, advanced, they all have the same basics, the same forms, the same exercices.
The basics don't change as you level up.

That's the pedagogy I used to have when I started in the Leung ting affiliated school : techniques are different when you level up, what a joke...
"You'll learn the correct technique, the MOst advanced techinque in the world when you have paid enough young padawan, shut up and gimme your credit card now"
I'm against it.
It's not pedagogy, It's busness.
(are you in a Wing Tsun School?)

When you learn boxing, you learn the jab, you work the Jab.
When you are a heawyweight champion, you also work the Jab every day, same basics, same move, but better executed.

Same in my teaching methods, advanced train the same thing than beginners, they just do it better.




> As an ex water-polo player, I'll use a swimming metaphor
> You have to learn how to keep your head out of the water before learning how to move around. If you only do the moves on earth and then jump in the pool thinking that you can swim I hope the lifeguard has good reflexes.



Or you can skip the air training and start directly in the little basin, doing basics moves with an assistance, and with rules that garantees your security.
Use your imagination, simplify your teaching methods, your students are smarter than you think.
They'll teach you, they are the real teachers.




> Same here, you need to learn the basic stance before moving around in it simply because the body mechanics are different and that you can develop bad habits if your foundations aren't solid.



You can developp bad habits only if your teacher isn't watching you training, and correcting you accordingly.



> It reminds me of some boxers who use the "swing" a lot. "Oh, that move is so powerful, the coach is a dumbass for yelling at me when I do it, I've already knocked out a guy with it!" until the day they face a boxer with good basics and they get that compact textbook right cross right on the nose. Believe me, it's a pain in the *** to unlearn such bad habits.



If your student doesn't listen to you, what happens is his responsability, part yours, yell harder, and kick in the ***, helps knowledge to get in !

ie : If you are not good enough to teach your boxer that he's wrong, thant tell him to train with a more skilled boxer, or you are just wasting his time.



> Also, about lineages, they are the proof that you have been taught the original art.



**** original art.

I'm the one who makes Wing Chun live, I'm the one using Wing Chun, not the other way around.
No organisation claim to say : this is a product of ours.

And also, no student of mine is a product from my school, hope they'll developp their own style and never afford to copy me.

Wing chun has no form.



> Some are honest and say they made up their own style (e.g. Wing Tai by Heinrich Pfaff) but others just look at videos on Youtube or practice in their garage and then claim to teach Wing Chun. Those are unable to provide their lineage and are considered as scams because that's what they are. I'll end my post with a very cliché metaphor: as a Frenchman, I don't think you would like a bottle of Estonian low-quality wine* having a tag with "Romanée Conti" on it. Lineages are the "controlled designation of origin" of martial arts



Lineages in wing chun are mostely a way to make good busness ...

I'm not training wing chun, I'm only a small teacher from the radiant octopus school, and I'm teaching Ouingue Choune, a French Creation from the south of france.



> *Didn't mean to offend any Estonian wine producer.



But you did.

Some american wine are quite superior than the French ones, and have the same names.

They too their roots in the original ground, than they traveled a lot.

So do I.


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## O'Malley (Jan 27, 2013)

poulperadieux said:


> She's learning Hypnosis, but, the first time I saw her, she was gone in 30 seconds.
> Actually, most of my subjects are gone in 1 or 2 minutes after a pre talk, or else I usually fail.




I hope they do! I do instant inductions and it takes less than 10 seconds. However, I prefer to use longer inductions the first time, just to make them comfortable as anyone isn't as suggestible as Julia (I wish I were, it took some time before I could enjoy hypnosis fully).




poulperadieux said:


> And, what do you do about the tunnel vision during the induction?



It's all in her head, like I said. Be it the tunnel vision, the impression that her peripheral vision bettered or the illusion of Yosemite Sam playing banjo.




poulperadieux said:


> The first time I heard of these technique, it was from a former international bodygard who trained gong fu (can't say witch one, as I can't put it in my CV sorry) with a taoist teacher in China.



Again, it's subjective. If you are convinced that it helps you, it certainly does somehow. Maybe your WC is better but it can be due to the confidence your faith in the induction brought you and not a direct effect of it.




poulperadieux said:


> So they feel  more pain? Naaah.
> 
> If you induce a trance, you create a rapport, so the communication , the non verbal communication during chi sao is easier.
> And they get less frustrated and nervous, and irritated by fails.
> ...



If you feel pain when you are training forms, you're doing it wrong. I've never said that it had to be done during sparring but when you are aware of your own body you can learn balance and proper execution more easily.





poulperadieux said:


> Wrong,
> 
> Beginners, intermediate, advanced, they all have the same basics, the same forms, the same exercices.
> The basics don't change as you level up.
> ...


No, I'm not (said it in my first post and that's why I was asking about the intermediate form). You say that everyone has the same basics, be it a beginner, advanced student or master. No one here said the contrary. What you just said just reinforces their point of view as, from what I have read, you don't teach the basic forms first.



poulperadieux said:


> When you learn boxing, you learn the jab, you work the Jab.
> When you are a heawyweight champion, you also work the Jab every day, same basics, same move, but better executed.
> 
> Same in my teaching methods, advanced train the same thing than beginners, they just do it better.




Same in every teaching method. You got it wrong. In Muay Thai, you first learn the jab, then the elbow strike. A guy in my club couldn't jab properly so he tried the elbow strike he had practiced everyday and just got an upper on the chin. I still wonder how he could get hurt so badly as we were all wearing training gloves...




poulperadieux said:


> Or you can skip the air training and start directly in the little basin, doing basics moves with an assistance, and with rules that garantees your security.



That's what people here avised you to do: to teach your students proper body mechanics starting with proper stance. Teaching them to move before they know how to stand is like giving them swimming lessons on earth: different body mechanics.




poulperadieux said:


> You can developp bad habits only if your teacher isn't watching you training, and correcting you accordingly.
> 
> If your student doesn't listen to you, what happens is his responsability, part yours, yell harder, and kick in the ***, helps knowledge to get in !
> 
> ie : If you are not good enough to teach your boxer that he's wrong, thant tell him to train with a more skilled boxer, or you are just wasting his time.


Even if you correct them, they later will have to unlearn the first thing you taught them in order to do the basics properly.




poulperadieux said:


> **** original art.
> 
> I'm the one who makes Wing Chun live, I'm the one using Wing Chun, not the other way around.
> No organisation claim to say : this is a product of ours.
> ...


Yes, I'm sure it attracts more people when you tell them that you teach the well-known art of Wing Chun than to say "well, I made my own martial and I teach it differently, not in the way which has been proving successful for three hundred years". It doesn't seem honest to me, though. I thought you weren't there for business? Just kidding 




poulperadieux said:


> But you did.
> 
> Some american wine are quite superior than the French ones, and have the same names.
> 
> ...



Wrong. Sure some American wines are better than some French wines but they never get the AOC. The name on the bottle is the species of grape used to make it and is no proof of quality. The AOC indicates the origin and the method used to make the product which IS a proof of quality. And please Google "Romanée Conti", as you don't seem to know what it is. Then you'll know it's not even comparable.


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## Vajramusti (Jan 27, 2013)

Argus said:


> I'm going to be very honest here. It is a good thing to be open minded and polite, especially in a public forum, but I think it is still more important to place value on the truth. Martial arts in particular is a place where many people are mislead, and often subscribe to, and place far too much emphasis on "magic." After watching your videos - in particular your forms, and this video, and after reading your blog, I am concerned that you are being mislead.
> 
> Proficiency in any martial art does not come through "magic;" it does not come through tricks or gimmicks like hypnosis or special workouts. As with anything in life, it comes only through _good_ practice and hard work.
> 
> ...


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Agree with the above.


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## geezer (Jan 27, 2013)

Vajramusti said:


> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Agree with the above.



Yeah Joy, I agree too. 

On the other hand, Anybody who directs the "Radiant Octopus" school has got a sense of humor. And I'm tolerant of all kinds of crazy ideas when presented with humor. I mean after all, an awful lot of posters on these forums are just "internet warriors" anyway. That's OK by me as long as nobody takes what's posted too seriously. Unlike those bickering idiots over at the KF magazine forum, I log on here to make friends and enjoy myself.


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## poulperadieux (Jan 27, 2013)

geezer said:


> Yeah Joy, I agree too.
> 
> On the other hand, Anybody who directs the "Radiant Octopus" school has got a sense of humor. And I'm tolerant of all kinds of crazy ideas when presented with humor. I mean after all, an awful lot of posters on these forums are just "internet warriors" anyway. That's OK by me as long as nobody takes what's posted too seriously. Unlike those bickering idiots over at the KF magazine forum, I log on here to make friends and enjoy myself.




That's all what's about in gong fu : to enjoy yourself and make friends.


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## Uncle (Jan 27, 2013)

poulperadieux said:


> That's all what's about in gong fu : to enjoy yourself and make friends.


Right. The ability to fight has nothing to do with it :lol:


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## poulperadieux (Jan 27, 2013)

O'Malley said:


> I hope they do! I do instant inductions and it takes less than 10 seconds. However, I prefer to use longer inductions the first time, just to make them comfortable as anyone isn't as suggestible as Julia (I wish I were, it took some time before I could enjoy hypnosis fully).




Yeah, Elman or triple bind is a good choice for the first time, but sometimes, you got a fellow who sit and is already in trance, happens more than I thougt, or I really have an hypnotic couch.




> It's all in her head, like I said. Be it the tunnel vision, the impression that her peripheral vision bettered or the illusion of Yosemite Sam playing banjo.




Actually, before I discovered and learned Hypnosis, I experienced during fights the expansion of the vision and the time and space modification.





> Again, it's subjective. If you are convinced that it helps you, it certainly does somehow. Maybe your WC is better but it can be due to the confidence your faith in the induction brought you and not a direct effect of it.



Dunno, like Sifu Woody said : "Whatever Works !"








> No, I'm not (said it in my first post and that's why I was asking about the intermediate form). You say that everyone has the same basics, be it a beginner, advanced student or master. No one here said the contrary. What you just said just reinforces their point of view as, from what I have read, you don't teach the basic forms first.



Actually, In one month, every student get to follow the tree forms, the footwork and the stance harsh training, so the order is of little importance.



> Same in every teaching method. You got it wrong. In Muay Thai, you first learn the jab, then the elbow strike. A guy in my club couldn't jab properly so he tried the elbow strike he had practiced everyday and just got an upper on the chin. I still wonder how he could get hurt so badly as we were all wearing training gloves...




You say that learning the jab protects you against uppers?
If you focus on elbows, you must be taught the strategy that comes with it, or else, you are ****ed.



> That's what people here avised you to do: to teach your students proper body mechanics starting with proper stance. Teaching them to move before they know how to stand is like giving them swimming lessons on earth: different body mechanics.



Old Fencing masters who wrote books in France says the countrary, I belive in them, and I've got results, you should try.




> Even if you correct them, they later will have to unlearn the first thing you taught them in order to do the basics properly.



Not at all, footwork is an important basic, and they all come to my course knowing how to walk, so I assume they can properly be taught how to move in a fight.



> Yes, I'm sure it attracts more people when you tell them that you teach the well-known art of Wing Chun than to say "well, I made my own martial and I teach it differently, not in the way which has been proving successful for three hundred years". It doesn't seem honest to me, though. I thought you weren't there for business? Just kidding



You didn't understand what I said, or pretend not to...
Every student is a different problem, you can't teach the same thing to a skinny little girl and a big fat muscle guy.
What do we know about how wing chun was and was taught 300 years ago.
As you must know, Yip man changed a lot of things he was taught by Wah Shun, Ip man wing chun is a recent creation, it's not a traditionnal wing chun and he had problem in his school because of that.

Taught to senior people in Ip man Wing chun, they confirmed Ip man created his own style, and didn't bother to transmit an exact replica of his own style to anybody, as some people here belive.

Or else, how come Leung Sheun, Lok Yiu, Tsui Seung Ting, Wong Sheun Leung have so many differences in how they do Wing Chun?




> Wrong. Sure some American wines are better than some French wines but they never get the AOC. The name on the bottle is the species of grape used to make it and is no proof of quality. The AOC indicates the origin and the method used to make the product which IS a proof of quality. And please Google "Romanée Conti", as you don't seem to know what it is. Then you'll know it's not even comparable.



**** AOC, a good wine is a good wine. You don't drink what's written on it.

Romanée conti... Got a bottle in my house an a picture in front of the fields in my home, please... Come on.


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## poulperadieux (Jan 27, 2013)

Uncle said:


> Right. The ability to fight has nothing to do with it :lol:



If you learn gong fu only to win fights, you'll just feel empty when you'll have defeated all your rivals.

I hope, considered your big age, you know better?


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## Uncle (Jan 27, 2013)

poulperadieux said:


> If you learn gong fu only to win fights, you'll just feel empty when you'll have defeated all your rivals.
> 
> I hope, considered your big age, you know better?


And if you don't start with combative proficiency as the basis and primary emphasis of your training then you're training and teaching what is essentially wushu or health tai chi.


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## poulperadieux (Jan 27, 2013)

I only teach fight to girls, guys tend to be  wuss in this field.


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## Tez3 (Jan 27, 2013)

poulperadieux said:


> I only teach fight to girls, guys tend to be wuss in this field.



Now there speaks a gallant gentleman indeed! And what he says is true.....! :ladysman:


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## poulperadieux (Jan 27, 2013)

Tez3 said:


> Now there speaks a gallant gentleman indeed! And what he says is true.....! :ladysman:



That's my curse, only brilliant and fierce girls understand me.

I'm Blushing now.

"I fight.  Not simply with my opponent. I fight with the demons of doubt. With my  exhaustion, with my past failures, with my injuries, with my anonymity,  with the unrelenting voice that tells me to stop. But I am a fighter.  And one thing is sure. I will be victorious."

That's exactely my point !

You fight, but not with only an opponent.
Girls understand easily how to go beyond that.


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## poulperadieux (Jan 28, 2013)

And, for Geezer, my reference for Bajiquan :


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## WingChunIan (Jan 29, 2013)

Well the post certainly made me cringe. I'm a practicising hypnotherapists and have had the pleasure of witnessing some of the leading hypnotherapists in europe and the US working.  Either that video is completely fake and the girl is acting (which would be my guess) or the anchors of the clicked fingers and hand to the rear of the neck have been repeatedly worked over time to embed them.
Whilst people continue to circulate videos like this no one will ever take hypnotherapy seriously and its a real shame because it can help with wing chun training immensely. I have never used it with my students as no one has yet asked but I have used it on myself through self hypnosis and my wife (kind of a student) to produce significant improvements in the ability to relax during exchanges, awareness of tactile information and programing of correct responses such as footwork. SNT should be a form of self hypnosis / meditation once a practitioner is past the stage of learning the movements and the legs are strong enough to hold them for a prolonged period of time without distress, focusing the mind on a simple concept such as the moving elbow and excluding everything else. 
As for learning the forms in reverse order, to each their own but my challenge would be that biu tze teaches practitioners to put themselves into bad positions in order that they can learn recovery if these become habit they are harder to un learn than if correct habits are formed first. Additionally the power generation in biu tze is designed to build on top of the power generation method in chum kiu which is in turn designed to build on the elbow power developed in SNT. The knives then take this power concept to another level and if the hand forms aren't trained before the knives not only can bad habits be developed but practising with the knives can cause damage to the wrists and elbows.
I don't follow the WSL lineage but the stories of him teaching the three forms in 18 months or a year are probably true, but I can garauntee (having met several of his direct students) that each would have been taught as a build on the previous one and students would have been encouraged to revisit SNT each step of the way. I can easily teach students all three forms and the jong form in about 3 months but they would have no understanding or ability and so I choose not to and instead follow the tried and trusted progressive teaching method that is common to all Ip Man lineages


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## O'Malley (Jan 29, 2013)

Completely agree with the above, this is the point I wanted to make in my first post.


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## poulperadieux (Jan 29, 2013)

WingChunIan said:


> Well the post certainly made me cringe. I'm a practicising hypnotherapists and have had the pleasure of witnessing some of the leading hypnotherapists in europe and the US working.  Either that video is completely fake and the girl is acting (which would be my guess) or the anchors of the clicked fingers and hand to the rear of the neck have been repeatedly worked over time to embed them.



As a said in another post you obviously didn't read, Julia is a Street hypnotist and works with me.
Anyway, the combination of shifting from vision to kinestetic with an hand catalepsy is a quick induction I practice really often in bars or in the streets, it usually works in less than a minute.

You should try it, if you are slow in your inductions, or worse, you are a script reader?

And, By the way, If you are so a badass masta wing chun hypnotist, why don't you make a video on the subject with your honey pie student witch will be far far superior than mine.

Seriously... You wanna impress who with all this cv talk without arguments?



> Whilst people continue to circulate videos like this no one will ever take hypnotherapy seriously and its a real shame because it can help with wing chun training immensely. I have never used it with my students as no one has yet asked but I have used it on myself through self hypnosis and my wife (kind of a student) to produce significant improvements in the ability to relax during exchanges, awareness of tactile information and programing of correct responses such as footwork. SNT should be a form of self hypnosis / meditation once a practitioner is past the stage of learning the movements and the legs are strong enough to hold them for a prolonged period of time without distress, focusing the mind on a simple concept such as the moving elbow and excluding everything else.



Yeah, guess what, I use hypnosis in Wing Chun courses with sucess, and I also teach hypnosis.
So gimme lessons when you'll do the same.


As for the rest, I've already answered.

Try teaching how to move, and than the foundations is, as I said, maybe the original way Wing Chun was taught, I've go two sources confirming that.


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## WingChunIan (Jan 31, 2013)

poulperadieux, you do what you want, I'm not interested in a pi**ing contest with you I am merely trying to prevent hypnotherapy and Wing Chun being discredited. I use a variety of inductions and deepeners with clients and no I never use a script, however from experience (of myself and other far more experienced and renown hypnotists) simple or rapid inductions whilst useful for inducing a mild trance state do not produce the collapsing into deep trance response demonstrated in your video unless there has been a serious amount of prior work. Stage hypnotism is different to clinical hypnotherapy and if you only choose the most susceptible individuals and further restrict your targets to those who want to please / exhibit then I'm sure you can have some seemingly impressive results.
As far as using hypnosis to improve Wing Chun (or any martial art) in my opinion it can be a valuable tool for removing subconcious reactions such as tensing, chasing arms etc,  for mitigating the adrenal response and for improving awareness of tactile sensitivity. However hypnosis can only work with something that the subject has prior experience of or an understanding of. It isn't the matrix, if the brain has no prior basis on which to build the desired behaviour then it can't be done. Anyway I think I've made my point, and I think that your post above helped to reinforce it so I shan't comment further. Good luck with your training.


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## poulperadieux (Jan 31, 2013)

WingChunIan said:


> poulperadieux, you do what you want, I'm not interested in a pi**ing contest with you I am merely trying to prevent hypnotherapy and Wing Chun being discredited.



C'est celui qui dit qui y est.



> I use a variety of inductions and deepeners with clients and no I never use a script, however from experience (of myself and other far more experienced and renown hypnotists) simple or rapid inductions whilst useful for inducing a mild trance state do not produce the collapsing into deep trance response demonstrated in your video unless there has been a serious amount of prior work. Stage hypnotism is different to clinical hypnotherapy and if you only choose the most susceptible individuals and further restrict your targets to those who want to please / exhibit then I'm sure you can have some seemingly impressive results.



I know at least 4 rapid inductions that induce fairly deep trance... I can teach you if you want?




> As far as using hypnosis to improve Wing Chun (or any martial art) in my opinion it can be a valuable tool for removing subconcious reactions such as tensing, chasing arms etc,  for mitigating the adrenal response and for improving awareness of tactile sensitivity.



Yeah, that's what I say in my video...



> However hypnosis can only work with something that the subject has prior experience of or an understanding of. It isn't the matrix, if the brain has no prior basis on which to build the desired behaviour then it can't be done.



As I didn't say in my video...



> Anyway I think I've made my point, and I think that your post above helped to reinforce it so I shan't comment further. Good luck with your training.



Yeah, I think I understood you pee further than me...
Good Luck also.


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