# Best kicks for average folks



## quasar44

Sorry I cannot do the spinning heel kicks or other highlight stuff 

1) MT low shin kick to leg - golden move but what happens if the shins clash with no pads 
2) MT body kick - devastating 

3) push kick - creates huge distance and good move against knife or weapon 

4) side kick - to knee or body or leg - I learned this on my own and it’s not bad . Key is the hop step . Saw many videos . I can do front or turning 
5) krav groin kick - my go too move . Snap kick 
6) snap kick to face - very popular in ufc from rear leg 
7) Oblique kick - to front , rear or side knee for self defense 

About it


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## Headhunter

What're we talking about here. For Mma/ kickboxing or for self defence.

Because Mma/ kickboxing groin kicks aren't allowed and in self defence you do not want to be throwing kicks to the face no matter how good you are


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## quasar44

Headhunter said:


> What're we talking about here. For Mma/ kickboxing or for self defence.
> 
> Because Mma/ kickboxing groin kicks aren't allowed and in self defence you do not want to be throwing kicks to the face no matter how good you are



Just a mixture of things that an avg hobbyist can learn in 6-9 months


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## Deleted member 39746

Tornado kick aboslutely.  

the 4 basics you get are sufficent for most things though.   that being front, back, side and round.   and spinning varietions of them.     Also the shin clashing is usually a toughness test or who ever breaks their shin first.   thats why you see them literally destroy the nerves in the shins so it doesnt hurt as much and you have to literally break the bone.   (dont do that, thats not a recomendation but a explination as to why they do some of the conditioning they do)

Anyway, what you strike with in them is prefrence/target pending.  eg if you use your shin or instep for a round kick.   I also belive you can go into some semi advanced kicks from those 4 anyway.   Or at least there are some variations of them that still use the same fundemental movements.


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## Buka

@Quaser44, might be a good idea to focus on the kicks you already feel comfortable with from your previous training, then just add to your repertoire with some of the kicks you pick up as you go.

I've always found that the simpler you make kicking, the easier it is to implement it into your skill set.
AND - the easier it is to learn advanced kicking when that time comes.


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## drop bear

Headhunter said:


> in self defence you do not want to be throwing kicks to the face no matter how good you are



Lol. These statements.

Here is one example.





And it is one more example than I have ever found of an oblique kick being used in a street fight.


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## Dirty Dog

Headhunter said:


> in self defence you do not want to be throwing kicks to the face no matter how good you are



Bollucks. This has been disproven countless times. High section kicks may not be your first choice, but they absolutely are viable options.


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## quasar44

Dirty Dog said:


> Bollucks. This has been disproven countless times. High section kicks may not be your first choice, but they absolutely are viable options.



If you have good wrestling then why not launch it lol


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## dvcochran

I am not certain what your question is. If you are asking which is best, I would you say you answered some of your own questions. 

Here are my thoughts:

1) MT low shin kick to leg - golden move but what happens if the shins clash with no pads 
****What part of the leg is the target contact area? Inner/outer quad are great targets. Shin to shin may cause problems (requires a Lot of conditioning), but shin to calf has been a finish move for me. 
Lead leg low kicks are a valid sweep technique. 

2) MT body kick - devastating 
****If you said 'potentially' devastating I would agree. It is probably the easiest, most natural kick for a MT guy to throw. Because it is a mid section kick it is also one of the easiest to kick. CAN it be devastating? Sure; along with many other kicks.

3) push kick - creates huge distance and good move against knife or weapon 
*****Agree that it creates distance. It would be a very conditional kick against a weapon since it is not a conventional disarming kick. 

4) side kick - to knee or body or leg - I learned this on my own and it’s not bad . Key is the hop step . Saw many videos . I can do front or turning
*****True side kicks have an unusual geometry. To have full power without sacrificing too much of the kickers balance they are better used low or high. The standing leg rotation can leave a person in an awkward spot if they are not polished at the return part of the kick(rotate out/rotate back). Hop step (slide, shift, etc...)is one of many 'flavors' or the side kick.
 They are good as a check (kind of like the push kick you mentioned) but this usually does not cause any real damage. 

5) krav groin kick - my go too move . Snap kick
*****I Don't know much about a krav specific groin kick. From a SD perspective, it has a Lot to do with the shoes you have on, as well as the other usual variables like angle, opportunity, practice, etc... 

6) snap kick to face - very popular in ufc from rear leg 
*****The key word part your statement is UFC. Highly practiced people who have thrown thousands of high front kicks at power, with a strategy in mind. I am a TKD guy and will tell high kicks can get you in as more trouble than they can get you out of if you are not very, very practiced at them. 
That said, if I have/create distance in would use a front kick.

7) Oblique kick - to front , rear or side knee for self defense 
*****Jon Jones said himself, it is a very controversial move (in competition). In self defense it is a Great kick. It can be really hard on someone knee, can keep them off of you, and you should never be off balance with the body position and height of the kick. Like any kick, there is a good bit of practice needed to really make it work. 

Good post.


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## quasar44

dvcochran said:


> I am not certain what your question is. If you are asking which is best, I would you say you answered some of your own questions.
> 
> Here are my thoughts:
> 
> 1) MT low shin kick to leg - golden move but what happens if the shins clash with no pads
> ****What part of the leg is the target contact area? Inner/outer quad are great targets. Shin to shin may cause problems (requires a Lot of conditioning), but shin to calf has been a finish move for me.
> Lead leg low kicks are a valid sweep technique.
> 
> 2) MT body kick - devastating
> ****If you said 'potentially' devastating I would agree. It is probably the easiest, most natural kick for a MT guy to throw. Because it is a mid section kick it is also one of the easiest to kick. CAN it be devastating? Sure; along with many other kicks.
> 
> 3) push kick - creates huge distance and good move against knife or weapon
> *****Agree that it creates distance. It would be a very conditional kick against a weapon since it is not a conventional disarming kick.
> 
> 4) side kick - to knee or body or leg - I learned this on my own and it’s not bad . Key is the hop step . Saw many videos . I can do front or turning
> *****True side kicks have an unusual geometry. To have full power without sacrificing too much of the kickers balance they are better used low or high. The standing leg rotation can leave a person in an awkward spot if they are not polished at the return part of the kick(rotate out/rotate back). Hop step (slide, shift, etc...)is one of many 'flavors' or the side kick.
> They are good as a check (kind of like the push kick you mentioned) but this usually does not cause any real damage.
> 
> 5) krav groin kick - my go too move . Snap kick
> *****I Don't know much about a krav specific groin kick. From a SD perspective, it has a Lot to do with the shoes you have on, as well as the other usual variables like angle, opportunity, practice, etc...
> 
> 6) snap kick to face - very popular in ufc from rear leg
> *****The key word part your statement is UFC. Highly practiced people who have thrown thousands of high front kicks at power, with a strategy in mind. I am a TKD guy and will tell high kicks can get you in as more trouble than they can get you out of if you are not very, very practiced at them.
> That said, if I have/create distance in would use a front kick.
> 
> 7) Oblique kick - to front , rear or side knee for self defense
> *****Jon Jones said himself, it is a very controversial move (in competition). In self defense it is a Great kick. It can be really hard on someone knee, can keep them off of you, and you should never be off balance with the body position and height of the kick. Like any kick, there is a good bit of practice needed to really make it work.
> 
> Good post.



The spinning , jumping kicks require too much coordination and flexibility for an avg guy like me .
 They’re great if you the skills but not realistic for an avg man !!

a gymnast could learn these high level kicks fast !!! I can’t 

Krav kick just uses the shin bone to the groin lol


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## quasar44

I posted these kicks only because I feel an avg guy can learn them and I did 

The spinning back kick to the belly is very good but I am too slow and never get to practice it


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## dvcochran

quasar44, what is your background? It sounds like you are very early in your training or are trying to go it alone. If the former, no worries. You will get better with time and practice. Lots of practice. If the latter, it is near impossible to learn well on your own. Just not enough feedback to figure thing out.


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## quasar44

dvcochran said:


> quasar44, what is your background? It sounds like you are very early in your training or are trying to go it alone. If the former, no worries. You will get better with time and practice. Lots of practice. If the latter, it is near impossible to learn well on your own. Just not enough feedback to figure thing out.



Did krav for 4 yrs 
Did MT for 4 yrs 

Now I am doing a beg MMA class 
A beg boxing class 
A beg wrestling class 
And advanced BJJ class that I don’t belong in

All this for a skinny 44 yr old


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## quasar44

MMA is so fun 
Boxing is fun 
Wrestling is only a private for 1 hr

BJJ is a living hell and I may switch BJJ schools in March . Class is 45-55 min of rolling and with my back and age it’s becoming bad


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## quasar44

I am 44 and 6-1 and 155 and I only started martial arts in 2011 

I did krav and MT from 2011-2015
Quit 

Then in 18 I realized I have zero clue about grappling and my striking is avg at best


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## quasar44

I can go well into my 60s as long as the classes are more technique than full fighting


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## dvcochran

quasar44 said:


> I can go well into my 60s as long as the classes are more technique than full fighting


A great attitude. Keep swinging as long as you can. Hopefully injury never gets in you way.


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## quasar44

dvcochran said:


> A great attitude. Keep swinging as long as you can. Hopefully injury never gets in you way.



i am 6-1 and 155’ so I have to be careful 
My body is not a football player


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## jobo

quasar44 said:


> I can go well into my 60s as long as the classes are more technique than full fighting


 as someone who is in his 60s i can tell you you can go into your 60s doing more fighting than technique, as long as your not fighting 25 yo or if you are you need to train harder than them( which in itself is somewhat difficult if they train hard)


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## jobo

quasar44 said:


> i am 6-1 and 155’ so I have to be careful
> My body is not a football player


try putting some muscle on and at that BMI a bit of fat wouldn't do any harm


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## quasar44

jobo said:


> as someone who is in his 60s i can tell you you can go into your 60s doing more fighting than technique, as long as your not fighting 25 yo or if you are you need to train harder than them( which in itself is somewhat difficult if they train hard)



maybe only 50s for me lol


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## W.Bridges

Any kick as long its not med air or flying


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## Tez3

dvcochran said:


> 1) MT low shin kick to leg - golden move but what happens if the shins clash with no pads


Both shins break, I've seen it happen very nasty.






dvcochran said:


> snap kick to face - very popular in ufc from rear leg



Not a correction of your post but OP should replace 'UFC' with 'MMA', the sport is MMA, UFC is a business.



quasar44 said:


> I can go well into my 60s as long as the classes are more technique than full fighting




When you get to 60 and have trained a lot you realise you don't have to fight full on because your experience has taught you all the cheats and dirty moves that shorten fights . Old and sneaky beats young and fit.


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## quasar44

Tez3 said:


> Both shins break, I've seen it happen very nasty.
> 
> 
> If your opp does not know MT then I can chop his leg down because the shin contact scares me
> 
> 
> 
> Not a correction of your post but OP should replace 'UFC' with 'MMA', the sport is MMA, UFC is a business.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When you get to 60 and have trained a lot you realise you don't have to fight full on because your experience has taught you all the cheats and dirty moves that shorten fights . Old and sneaky beats young and fit.


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## pdg

quasar44 said:


> The spinning , jumping kicks require too much coordination and flexibility for an avg guy like me .
> They’re great if you the skills but not realistic for an avg man !!
> 
> a gymnast could learn these high level kicks fast !!! I can’t



It depends how you define and categorise "average".

In most cases, the majority of people consider themselves as average even if they're way above or below what is really average...

I've never done any sort of gymnastics, or even sport in general (except cycling I suppose, but nowhere near sport level).

I started tkd not long before I was 40.

Jumping kicks, spinning kicks, combinations - takes a bit of practice (and a willingness to pick myself off the floor a few times*) but they're certainly not unrealistic.

I can't get near doing splits so I'm not exactly super flexible, but I can kick above my own head level in front, to side or spinning - even higher with jumping.

So yeah, I'm a pretty average guy...



*Oh, and a bit of sheer bloody-minded attitude helps too. Tell yourself to do it and don't take no for an answer.


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## dvcochran

pdg said:


> It depends how you define and categorise "average".
> 
> In most cases, the majority of people consider themselves as average even if they're way above or below what is really average...
> 
> I've never done any sort of gymnastics, or even sport in general (except cycling I suppose, but nowhere near sport level).
> 
> I started tkd not long before I was 40.
> 
> Jumping kicks, spinning kicks, combinations - takes a bit of practice (and a willingness to pick myself off the floor a few times*) but they're certainly not unrealistic.
> 
> I can't get near doing splits so I'm not exactly super flexible, but I can kick above my own head level in front, to side or spinning - even higher with jumping.
> 
> So yeah, I'm a pretty average guy...
> 
> 
> 
> *Oh, and a bit of sheer bloody-minded attitude helps too. Tell yourself to do it and don't take no for an answer.



Agree. I wonder if @quasar44 is watching high level Olympic sparring videos and thinking that is average. A valid goal? Yes. The average, No.  
One of the really cool things that Olympic style sparring has done is provide a SPORT avenue to those interested and capable of making that leap. It should not, and hopefully is not where the bar is set for most WT/KKW schools. To me, this is specifically where the dividing line lies between calling your school traditional or sport. Can a school be both? Sure. But call a spade a spade and identify your school as such. Identify the additional tools your school may have to train Olympic sparring as a functional endeavor. 

When WT/Olympic sparring is used as the Only tool in training there is a huge void in the program. 
Having been in the Olympic circuit in my day and heavily involved in TKD for nearly 4 decades, I have been to hundreds of schools so I can speak from a base of knowledge. In my experience these programs do exist but are not the norm. I feel the MA community is getting informed enough to realize the negatives in these programs and they will dwindle or realize they must modify their program to be more wholistic and realistic. 
This is my hope for the continuation and integrity of TKD long term.


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## Danny T

I'll be 65 shortly. I've had 13 surgeries including both total knee replacements and reconstructive surgery on my right foot. I'm still training, practicing, and teaching. 
Stop focusing on what you can't do and focus on what you can do. Work on bettering some of the things you are struggling with but don't make it a major focus. Take small incremental steps toward betterment. Work on increasing your overall strength, flexibility, and ability to move...standing footwork, head, & body movement and on the ground as well. You Do Not HAVE TO GO HARD. Slowly as you increase your abilities you can increase the pace and the amount of force you are exerting. If your instructor/s and training partners don't understand such and aren't will to work with you at your level you need a different instructor. 
YOU have to back off and work at a pace and strength level where your grow and not get injured as well. Don't attempt to 'win' rather work on learning. What often happens is the beginner says let's go easy but then goes fast and hard so the partner goes at the same faster harder level and suddenly the beginner is complaining that it's too hard. 
I have my students practice some of the higher kicks and some of the spin kicks not to use them for fighting but rather a attribute development. Works strength, balance, and dynamic stretching as well as the ability to turn quickly. Doesn't mean they are techniques to be used in a fight or to spar with. We do push ups but we don't go into a sparring session or competition to do push ups. 
Now just go Train, Have Fun, Get Better, Have Fun, Get Stronger, Have Fun, Get Flexible, Have Fun!


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## quasar44

Yes the key is to train and not get injured 

I feel I can train at a moderate intestity


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## pdg

quasar44 said:


> Yes the key is to train and not get injured
> 
> I feel I can train at a moderate intestity



Amalgamating the info about you from a couple of threads, I'd say you need to train at higher than moderate intensity.

Not a nasty comment, but as it stands you're distinctly below average.

Your weight is fine, but from a distance in writing it appears your composition is not.

Possible medical restrictions notwithstanding:

Work on flexibility, work on strength, practice balance - and put in as much effort as you can.

Going in thinking "I must not get injured" will only lead to paranoia about injury and seriously restrict what you're willing and able to do.

Don't be flippant and hurt yourself, obviously, but don't be overly guarding over what you can do.

Every single exercise session should at least ever so slightly push your limit - if it doesn't, you'll never progress.


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## quasar44

pdg said:


> Amalgamating the info about you from a couple of threads, I'd say you need to train at higher than moderate intensity.
> 
> Not a nasty comment, but as it stands you're distinctly below average.
> 
> Your weight is fine, but from a distance in writing it appears your composition is not.
> 
> Possible medical restrictions notwithstanding:
> 
> Work on flexibility, work on strength, practice balance - and put in as much effort as you can.
> 
> Going in thinking "I must not get injured" will only lead to paranoia about injury and seriously restrict what you're willing and able to do.
> 
> Don't be flippant and hurt yourself, obviously, but don't be overly guarding over what you can do.
> 
> Every single exercise session should at least ever so slightly push your limit - if it doesn't, you'll never progress.



Yes my cautioness of injuries has held me back !!!  
 What about my age ...I am 44 !!!

I am trying to do it all before I get too old 
MMA - twice a week for wrestling and ground and pound 
 Boxing - once a week with some MT mixed in
BJJ - twice a week and still confused . I demoted myself from the general class to the new beg class


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## quasar44

Me in advanced BJJ is a total disaster !!

My fav martial art was Krav Maga !!!

BJJ is a must but it can get too complex


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## pdg

quasar44 said:


> Yes my cautioness of injuries has held me back !!!
> What about my age ...I am 44 !!!



I'm 43 this year.

I started TKD and kickboxing almost 4 years ago, having done no other 'sports' since school (except a bit of cycling, but not competitive) and never anything MA related (unless 2-3 hours of boxing when I was about 12 counts).

Age as a number you have to simply accept.

Age as a condition is entirely up to you.


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## Tez3

quasar44 said:


> What about my age ...I am 44 !!!




An MMA fighter I know was 40 before he started training MMA, he'd trained boxing but not groundwork before, he made it to the UFC after fighting on regional fight nights. 



quasar44 said:


> Me in advanced BJJ is a total disaster !!



Can I ask why you went into an advanced class? I will say too that BJJ is no more 'complex' than KM. With any martial art you start with the basics ( and keep revising them) then advance through the techniques. Anything is going to look complex if you haven't started at ground level.


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## quasar44

Tez3 said:


> An MMA fighter I know was 40 before he started training MMA, he'd trained boxing but not groundwork before, he made it to the UFC after fighting on regional fight nights.
> 
> Because I only do the no-gi and they rarely offer any beg no gi
> 
> Can I ask why you went into an advanced class? I will say too that BJJ is no more 'complex' than KM. With any martial art you start with the basics ( and keep revising them) then advance through the techniques. Anything is going to look complex if you haven't started at ground level.


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## Tez3

I think you need to learn to use the quote function here, it makes it easier.

If I were you I'd change to BJJ with Gi's if they have a beginner's session, it's pointless struggling with no Gi when you haven't learnt the basics. It really is as simple as that.

Why wouldn't you start at the beginning? You wouldn't do it, I assume, with any other activity, you don't try to swim across the English channel if you can't swim!


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## quasar44

Very few people are Conor Mcgregor and can do insane spinning kicks


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## quasar44

Tez3 said:


> I think you need to learn to use the quote function here, it makes it easier.
> 
> If I were you I'd change to BJJ with Gi's if they have a beginner's session, it's pointless struggling with no Gi when you haven't learnt the basics. It really is as simple as that.
> 
> Why wouldn't you start at the beginning? You wouldn't do it, I assume, with any other activity, you don't try to swim across the English channel if you can't swim!



I will never ever train with a gi

I hate it and a bigger guy can get fake grips on me and hold me down . It’s not real the grips


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## quasar44

KM is super simple compared to BJJ

BJJ is quantum physics lol 
I have quit the main no -gi class but I am going to try out the no gi beg classes and see how it goes
I went on thurs and enjoyed it
10 min of rolling I can do but 55 min in the Reg class I cannot


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## quasar44

The coach who teaches the no gi beg is actually super insane technical 
 I may just try another gym and see how that works 
I can afford a few gyms


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## Tez3

quasar44 said:


> I will never ever train with a gi
> 
> I hate it and a bigger guy can get fake grips on me and hold me down . It’s not real the grips




Really? What qualifies you to say this? 'Fake' grips? If someone is holding you there's nothing fake about it, misuse of the word. I don't think as you are just a beginner you have any idea what you are talking about. If I can do Gi BJJ then almost certainly you who are much younger and almost certainly bigger and weigh more can absolutely do it, I don't know why you think you can't. You can be held down in no Gi just as easily by a 'bigger guy' the trick is learning the basics so you can get out. If I can you can.

Common sense dictates that a beginner goes to beginner classes first then moves on not the other way around.

I'm starting to think that the problem is your attitude and thinking you know more than you do.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf

quasar44 said:


> I will never ever train with a gi
> 
> I hate it and a bigger guy can get fake grips on me and hold me down . It’s not real the grips


If anything, gi bjj is just as "real" no-gi bjj. Reason being that, in no gi bjj you're normally wearing a tshirt. Depending where you live/time of year, people may be wearing jackets, hoodies, etc. which can be approximated by a gi. If you refuse to train in one, then you're not learning how to handle those grips.


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## quasar44

kempodisciple said:


> If anything, gi bjj is just as "real" no-gi bjj. Reason being that, in no gi bjj you're normally wearing a tshirt. Depending where you live/time of year, people may be wearing jackets, hoodies, etc. which can be approximated by a gi. If you refuse to train in one, then you're not learning how to handle those grips.



I only do NOGI and only twice a week 
I cannot handle anymore than that 
I try to focus on more mma stuff


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## quasar44

Gi is very complex as you have far far more positions and chokes


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## Monkey Turned Wolf

quasar44 said:


> I only do NOGI and only twice a week
> I cannot handle anymore than that
> I try to focus on more mma stuff


I'm not really concerned with what you do/don't do. Just wanted to clarify that gi does not mean the positions are fake, or that if your concerned about realness you can just ignore the gi.


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## quasar44

kempodisciple said:


> I'm not really concerned with what you do/don't do. Just wanted to clarify that gi does not mean the positions are fake, or that if your concerned about realness you can just ignore the gi.



Gi is designed for chokes while cloths rip
No gi is the real one


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## quasar44

kempodisciple said:


> I'm not really concerned with what you do/don't do. Just wanted to clarify that gi does not mean the positions are fake, or that if your concerned about realness you can just ignore the gi.



Have you ever done BJJ


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## Monkey Turned Wolf

quasar44 said:


> Have you ever done BJJ


Yes I have.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf

quasar44 said:


> Gi is designed for chokes while cloths rip
> No gi is the real one


If you really think you cant choke with a hoodie you need to train with a hoodie. That extra layer changes a lot of stuff.


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## dvcochran

quasar44 said:


> Have you ever done BJJ


Have you ever tried to choke someone wearing a tank top?


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## Tez3

quasar44 said:


> No gi is the real one




Nonsense, it's purely down to what you prefer doing and that preference can be influenced by wrong information.
I do both and find that in techniques they aren't so different nor is one easier than the other. Being able to do both gives an extra dimension to your BJJ.


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## Headhunter

quasar44 said:


> Gi is designed for chokes while cloths rip
> No gi is the real one


Wow


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## quasar44

I just will never do anything GI.
I only do street cloths- Krav maga
MMA./MT Shorts and T-shirt
BJJ- rash guard, shorts and spandex


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## quasar44

dvcochran said:


> Have you ever tried to choke someone wearing a tank top?



I dont know think so...
I am 44 years old and I have a tough schedule plus I work full time.
Monday-Thurs  I am doing stuff that 24 year old males do.
 Mon/Wed- MMA class
Tues/Thurs- BJJ 
Thurs- I do a striking class.

That is 5-6 hours of physical contact with people half my age and bigger.  It would be nice if I was 175 or 185 pounds

I used to be an ex-Tennis player and I was very good for a club level only player.


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## Headhunter

quasar44 said:


> I dont know think so...
> I am 44 years old and I have a tough schedule plus I work full time.
> Monday-Thurs  I am doing stuff that 24 year old males do.
> Mon/Wed- MMA class
> Tues/Thurs- BJJ
> Thurs- I do a striking class.
> 
> That is 5-6 hours of physical contact with people half my age and bigger.  It would be nice if I was 175 or 185 pounds
> 
> I used to be an ex-Tennis player and I was very good for a club level only player.


You used to be an ex tennis player? Does that mean you play tennis now?


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## Monkey Turned Wolf

quasar44 said:


> I just will never do anything GI.
> I only do street cloths- Krav maga
> MMA./MT Shorts and T-shirt
> BJJ- rash guard, shorts and spandex


Why?


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## Bruce7

drop bear said:


> Lol. These statements.
> 
> Here is one example.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And it is one more example than I have ever found of an oblique kick being used in a street fight.



Thanks for the video.Interesting
The guy in white looked surprised, and did not know what to do when he saw the round kick coming,
so he got out of his front stance and and dropped his arm.
The guy in white had his arm in the right position, for some unknown reason he drop his arm and lean back with his upper body,
He was an easy target because he had no footwork.

He could have even not moved and changed the front stance in a horse and do a double arm block.
I don't think he ever fought someone who could kick.


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## Tez3

quasar44 said:


> I dont know think so...
> I am 44 years old and I have a tough schedule plus I work full time.
> Monday-Thurs  I am doing stuff that 24 year old males do.
> Mon/Wed- MMA class
> Tues/Thurs- BJJ
> Thurs- I do a striking class.
> 
> That is 5-6 hours of physical contact with people half my age and bigger.  It would be nice if I was 175 or 185 pounds
> 
> .



However you don't roll for very long as your back hurts...according to you. When you say physical contact it's not actually that long is it, as for being with people younger well, that doesn't mean they are any fitter than you. Many people who train are older than you, also have full time jobs and families.

Oh and if you are wearing Muay Thai shorts for MMA please don't …. unless you are wearing shorts underneath, it's never a good look when your undercarriage drops down.

You seem unreasonably biased against doing BJJ in a Gi, I think you have either been ill informed or have badly misunderstood BJJ.


----------



## quasar44

Tez3 said:


> However you don't roll for very long as your back hurts...according to you. When you say physical contact it's not actually that long is it, as for being with people younger well, that doesn't mean they are any fitter than you. Many people who train are older than you, also have full time jobs and families.
> 
> Oh and if you are wearing Muay Thai shorts for MMA please don't …. unless you are wearing shorts underneath, it's never a good look when your undercarriage drops down.
> 
> You seem unreasonably biased against doing BJJ in a Gi, I think you have either been ill informed or have badly misunderstood BJJ.



I never wear MT shorts lol 
No way 
Just reg ones ha


----------



## quasar44

I don’t have the time with the Gi as it adds on many more positions , sweeps and chokes


----------



## quasar44

kempodisciple said:


> Why?



I can’t do eveything 
The Gi class is difff


----------



## quasar44

kempodisciple said:


> Why?



I can’t do eveything 
The Gi class is like another art to no gi
I picked no gi


----------



## quasar44

Headhunter said:


> You used to be an ex tennis player? Does that mean you play tennis now?



No I have not played in 15 months !!!


----------



## Monkey Turned Wolf

quasar44 said:


> I can’t do eveything
> The Gi class is like another art to no gi
> I picked no gi


Which is fine. I don't have time to do kickboxing. But why "never"?


----------



## Buka

As for clothing chokes..

Unless a person is better at rolling than I am ...which narrows down the field to a few billion people, if I get said person in closed guard and trap an arm, that person is getting choked with their clothing no matter what they are wearing, t-shirt, wife beater, raincoat, tuxedo, winter coat, no matter, I’ve practiced with every conceivable garment.

I’ve always loved clothing chokes. Ever since I first got choked out that way.


----------



## quasar44

Buka said:


> As for clothing chokes..
> 
> Unless a person is better at rolling than I am ...which narrows down the field to a few billion people, if I get said person in closed guard and trap an arm, that person is getting choked with their clothing no matter what they are wearing, t-shirt, wife beater, raincoat, tuxedo, winter coat, no matter, I’ve practiced with every conceivable garment.
> 
> I’ve always loved clothing chokes. Ever since I first got choked out that way.



You can’t choke me in my T-shirt , the fabric     would rip !!!
 You can put me in a sloppy rear naked and it will work .
 The gable grip choke is very effective as blood or air 
 The one arm choke  is hard to pull of


----------



## quasar44

One arm choke as trachea when you pull your shoulder back is a pain killer !!
 One arm blood choke is harder to work


----------



## Tez3

quasar44 said:


> You can’t choke me in my T-shirt , the fabric would rip !!!



Oh dear, believing that is a very big mistake especially when it comes to self defence. I can choke you out with your t shirt quite easily and no, it doesn't tear.



quasar44 said:


> You can put me in a sloppy rear naked and it will work .



Anyone who has practised escapes can get out of it, in fact even people who haven't can. I'm not sure where you get your information from but you need to research a bit more. I just used Google to ask about t shirt chokes and there's dozens of videos showing how to do including some from Krav Maga so I guess you didn't learn everything in your _months_ doing it.


----------



## _Simon_

Danny T said:


> I'll be 65 shortly. I've had 13 surgeries including both total knee replacements and reconstructive surgery on my right foot. I'm still training, practicing, and teaching.
> Stop focusing on what you can't do and focus on what you can do. Work on bettering some of the things you are struggling with but don't make it a major focus. Take small incremental steps toward betterment. Work on increasing your overall strength, flexibility, and ability to move...standing footwork, head, & body movement and on the ground as well. You Do Not HAVE TO GO HARD. Slowly as you increase your abilities you can increase the pace and the amount of force you are exerting. If your instructor/s and training partners don't understand such and aren't will to work with you at your level you need a different instructor.
> YOU have to back off and work at a pace and strength level where your grow and not get injured as well. Don't attempt to 'win' rather work on learning. What often happens is the beginner says let's go easy but then goes fast and hard so the partner goes at the same faster harder level and suddenly the beginner is complaining that it's too hard.
> I have my students practice some of the higher kicks and some of the spin kicks not to use them for fighting but rather a attribute development. Works strength, balance, and dynamic stretching as well as the ability to turn quickly. Doesn't mean they are techniques to be used in a fight or to spar with. We do push ups but we don't go into a sparring session or competition to do push ups.
> Now just go Train, Have Fun, Get Better, Have Fun, Get Stronger, Have Fun, Get Flexible, Have Fun!


Awesome post, a great reminder


----------



## pdg

Tez3 said:


> Oh dear, believing that is a very big mistake especially when it comes to self defence. I can choke you out with your t shirt quite easily and no, it doesn't tear.



When I was a little (just a little, honest ) younger I very nearly choked myself out with my own t-shirt when I slipped while climbing a tree.

I slipped, my t caught on a branch.

It stretched a bit, and got a hole, but didn't tear...



Now, I'm a bit odd. I quite enjoy sewing. If any clothing in our household needs alteration or repair my wife hands it to me.

I also like messing around with machinery and engines, so I go through quite a few rags.

T-shirts really don't tear all that easily, unless they're very poor quality or you get it going along a seam - even then you usually need to get it going with a preliminary cut.


----------



## quasar44

Tez3 said:


> Oh dear, believing that is a very big mistake especially when it comes to self defence. I can choke you out with your t shirt quite easily and no, it doesn't tear.
> 
> True but few folks wil know how to double grab the wrist .
> That is why I keep my head super close to opp head and back hand side of hand on neck or head
> 
> Anyone who has practised escapes can get out of it, in fact even people who haven't can. I'm not sure where you get your information from but you need to research a bit more. I just used Google to ask about t shirt chokes and there's dozens of videos showing how to do including some from Krav Maga so I guess you didn't learn everything in your _months_ doing it.


----------



## Tez3

"True but few folks wil know how to double grab the wrist ."

Do you really believe that?


----------



## quasar44

Tez3 said:


> "True but few folks wil know how to double grab the wrist ."
> 
> Do you really believe that?



yes !!!


----------



## Monkey Turned Wolf

Tez3 said:


> I just used Google to ask about t shirt chokes and there's dozens of videos showing how to do including some from Krav Maga so I guess you didn't learn everything in your _months_ doing it.


To be clear, he trained krav for 5 years, just felt he learned it all after 18 months.


----------



## Danny T

quasar44 said:


> You can’t choke me in my T-shirt , the fabric     would rip !!!


Hmm..., was teaching 'tee shirt' chokes yesterday to a group self defense class. Had 3 men who all said they believed the ladies could not put them out with a choke. All had tee shirts on. The 3rd decided not to attempt it after seeing the other 2 choked unconscious by a lady using the man's tee shirt. Not a single tee shirt was ripped...stretched a bit but not ripped. But then of course it wasn't you being choked.


----------



## Headhunter

quasar44 said:


> yes !!!


Yeah I bet you do


----------



## Tez3

quasar44 said:


> yes !!!




I really hope you never have occasion to see how wrong you are.


----------



## quasar44

Tez3 said:


> I really hope you never have occasion to see how wrong you are.



I can get out of rear mount if the guy knows zero BJJ very easily and stop a choke from a non trained man


----------



## quasar44

kempodisciple said:


> To be clear, he trained krav for 5 years, just felt he learned it all after 18 months.


 I did MT for 4 yrs 

only been doing grappling ( BJJ and wrest ) for 20 months !!!


----------



## quasar44

You can be decent in striking in 1 yr 

Grappling is 2-4 yrs


----------



## quasar44

For me it’s going to be 4 yrs lol 

20 months is not cutting it


----------



## quasar44

Danny T said:


> Hmm..., was teaching 'tee shirt' chokes yesterday to a group self defense class. Had 3 men who all said they believed the ladies could not put them out with a choke. All had tee shirts on. The 3rd decided not to attempt it after seeing the other 2 choked unconscious by a lady using the man's tee shirt. Not a single tee shirt was ripped...stretched a bit but not ripped. But then of course it wasn't you being choked.


----------



## quasar44

Danny T said:


> Hmm..., was teaching 'tee shirt' chokes yesterday to a group self defense class. Had 3 men who all said they believed the ladies could not put them out with a choke. All had tee shirts on. The 3rd decided not to attempt it after seeing the other 2 choked unconscious by a lady using the man's tee shirt. Not a single tee shirt was ripped...stretched a bit but not ripped. But then of course it wasn't you being choked.



Was this BJJ ??


----------



## quasar44

She won’t choke me out as I have free hands that can make it complex 
 Rear naked , gable or triangle yes , she can choke me out 

No way a random person is going to choke me out


----------



## Tez3

quasar44 said:


> You can be decent in striking in 1 yr
> 
> Grappling is 2-4 yrs


----------



## drop bear

quasar44 said:


> You can’t choke me in my T-shirt , the fabric     would rip !!!
> You can put me in a sloppy rear naked and it will work .
> The gable grip choke is very effective as blood or air
> The one arm choke  is hard to pull of



Generally it is not a cross collar choke which is the one you might be thinking of.  But a kind of loop choke?






And yeah I just choked out ten guys this morning with their stringlets isn't very helpful.

So even if you are adamant no gi. That is still a choke worth learning.


----------



## drop bear

kempodisciple said:


> To be clear, he trained krav for 5 years, just felt he learned it all after 18 months.



That sounds fair. How many gun disarms do you really need?


----------



## Headhunter

quasar44 said:


> Was this BJJ ??


A choke is a choke no matter what label you put on it


----------



## drop bear

Headhunter said:


> A choke is a choke no matter what label you put on it



Not really it is more a conditioning question.

There are some system that will tap out to a knee ride.


----------



## quasar44

drop bear said:


> That sounds fair. How many gun disarms do you really need?



I don’t want to ever test that lol
Krav is mostly things like Hammer fists, Palm strikes and chops


----------



## quasar44

I may freeze uk with a gun at me 
I don’t know 

I may save the day or just freeze up 
I don’t want to know and a knife is just as bad along with a club


----------



## quasar44

Krav is a perfect starter system !!!


----------



## quasar44

Tez3 said:


> I really hope you never have occasion to see how wrong you are.



I see it’s from the gracies -,then I admit I am wrong 
 Those guys know every submission ever invented plus 10 variations if they don’t work 
 Very high IQ family


----------



## Monkey Turned Wolf

quasar44 said:


> She won’t choke me out as I have free hands that can make it complex
> Rear naked , gable or triangle yes , she can choke me out
> 
> No way a random person is going to choke me out


If you really believe that a women you do not know has no possible way of choking you out, you're lacking a lot of experience.


----------



## Monkey Turned Wolf

quasar44 said:


> I can get out of rear mount if the guy knows zero BJJ very easily and stop a choke from a non trained man


Are you training with the idea that you will only ever be attacked by someone without training/experience?


----------



## Monkey Turned Wolf

quasar44 said:


> You can be decent in striking in 1 yr
> 
> Grappling is 2-4 yrs


Decent compared to whom?


----------



## quasar44

kempodisciple said:


> Decent compared to whom?



compared to 90 percent of public with little to no training


----------



## quasar44

kempodisciple said:


> Are you training with the idea that you will only ever be attacked by someone without training/experience?



 No
It’s more into the hobby stage for me than self def


----------



## Buka

quasar44 said:


> You can’t choke me in my T-shirt , the fabric     would rip !!!
> of



My brother, if you ever make it out to Maui....bring a T-shirt.


----------



## Headhunter

quasar44 said:


> No
> It’s more into the hobby stage for me than self def


Except when I said to you it was a hobby you said no it's more than a hobby....


----------



## Tez3

quasar44 said:


> No way a random person is going to choke me out



Said the guy as he fell unconscious, oh yes I've had that before and I've choked quite a few guys out who said I couldn't, I've also made them submit, broke one guy's arm, accidently , when he wouldn't submit to a woman. And I'm not even that good, my friend Rosi is much much better, as is another friend Lisa they both teach men who will wait months to get into their seminars and classes. I know quite a lot of women who can choke and submit people without too much effort.



quasar44 said:


> Very high IQ family



That sounds familiar but as I'm not getting into politics I'll refrain from saying more but it's clear you haven't met many of them, they are very good at what they do, well, it is the family business ( or perhaps you don't know why it's called BJJ), a high IQ has nothing to do with it.



quasar44 said:


> compared to 90 percent of public with little to no training



Many muggers, thugs etc have no training in martial arts but will take you out every time. Relying on the fact you 'have training' but without practice is a dangerous road to take. Krav Maga can be great, depends on who is teaching, many places are rip offs these days but you still need the constant repetition of techniques to make them instinctive and can use them immediately if you are attacked. 



quasar44 said:


> Krav is a perfect starter system !!!




For whom and for what? It's an ill-educated statement to make as it means nothing,


----------



## _Simon_

Buka said:


> My brother, if you ever make it out to Maui....bring a T-shirt.


Make it a Hawaiian shirt!


----------



## Gerry Seymour

quasar44 said:


> Me in advanced BJJ is a total disaster !!


Any beginner in an advanced class is likely a disaster. That's why it's called an advanced class.


----------



## Gerry Seymour

Tez3 said:


> Can I ask why you went into an advanced class? I will say too that BJJ is no more 'complex' than KM. With any martial art you start with the basics ( and keep revising them) then advance through the techniques. Anything is going to look complex if you haven't started at ground level.


As Tez says here, anything is confusing if you start in the middle. My experience with BJJ is pretty limited, but nothing I've seen suggests it's more complicated or complex than other grappling. Teaching styles can make things seem more complex if the style doesn't match with your communication/processing style. And both intermediate and advanced classes will typically be taught assuming a base level of knowledge. So, for instance, the instructor might quickly review several concepts related to a given technique, allow a few quick reps to get the idea, then send the class off for lots of rolling to play with those concepts (most of which aren't actually new to the attendees). Which is what it sounds like that class was doing, from your descriptions.


----------



## Gerry Seymour

quasar44 said:


> Because I only do the no-gi and they rarely offer any beg no gi


When you are learning the basic concepts and techniques, it doesn't matter what you're wearing. Worry about the clothing after you get past the starting point.


----------



## Gerry Seymour

quasar44 said:


> I will never ever train with a gi
> 
> I hate it and a bigger guy can get fake grips on me and hold me down . It’s not real the grips


To be clear, this is a foolish rationale. Learn the techniques. Later, when you have an inkling how BJJ works, you can make the distinction between gi/no-gi with some knowledge.

Learning to defend against those grips (not "fake" - they actually exist) is good skill development.


----------



## Gerry Seymour

quasar44 said:


> I just will never do anything GI.
> I only do street cloths- Krav maga
> MMA./MT Shorts and T-shirt
> BJJ- rash guard, shorts and spandex


So, spandex is what you normally wear, and what you expect someone to wear on the street? You've made a completely irrational decision that a gi is a bad thing. It's just exercise clothing, mate.


----------



## Gerry Seymour

quasar44 said:


> I dont know think so...
> I am 44 years old and I have a tough schedule plus I work full time.
> Monday-Thurs  I am doing stuff that 24 year old males do.
> Mon/Wed- MMA class
> Tues/Thurs- BJJ
> Thurs- I do a striking class.
> 
> That is 5-6 hours of physical contact with people half my age and bigger.  It would be nice if I was 175 or 185 pounds
> 
> I used to be an ex-Tennis player and I was very good for a club level only player.


You keep making a huge point about your age. I've literally only had three students under 40 in the last 5 years, and taking falls (our falls are like intermediate Judo falls) is harder on the body than rolling. I'm 50, and can still take all the falls and do all the rolling in a regular class when I get a chance (though getting up is harder than it was 20 years ago).

Stop using your age as an excuse.


----------



## Gerry Seymour

quasar44 said:


> I don’t have the time with the Gi as it adds on many more positions , sweeps and chokes


No, it actually doesn't. It requires changes to grips and grip defenses, not the primary body body of techniques, from what I've seen and experienced. And you've already heard that same comment from more than one person in this thread with far more BJJ experience than I have.


----------



## Gerry Seymour

quasar44 said:


> You can’t choke me in my T-shirt , the fabric     would rip !!!
> You can put me in a sloppy rear naked and it will work .
> The gable grip choke is very effective as blood or air
> The one arm choke  is hard to pull of


Have you actually tried this? I teach "street clothes" classes every now and then, and the fabric chokes I teach do work with t-shirts unless they are old and worn out. It'll stretch the t-shirt, but fabric is stronger than you seem to think. When you see it tear in movies, it's usually been fixed to tear easily.


----------



## Gerry Seymour

quasar44 said:


> The spinning , jumping kicks require too much coordination and flexibility for an avg guy like me .
> They’re great if you the skills but not realistic for an avg man !!
> 
> a gymnast could learn these high level kicks fast !!! I can’t
> 
> Krav kick just uses the shin bone to the groin lol


It's all about technique. I learned jumping kicks in my 30's. I'm working on turning/spinning kicks now at 50. I'm not really a kicker, I'm a grappler. But as he said, it's a great way to work on some physical attributes, so I'll have better balance, etc. when I'm 70.


----------



## Gerry Seymour

quasar44 said:


> Was this BJJ ??


Does that matter?


----------



## Gerry Seymour

drop bear said:


> That sounds fair. How many gun disarms do you really need?


30. I need 30. Wait, no...just...one...more.


----------



## pdg

gpseymour said:


> Have you actually tried this? I teach "street clothes" classes every now and then, and the fabric chokes I teach do work with t-shirts unless they are old and worn out. It'll stretch the t-shirt, but fabric is stronger than you seem to think. When you see it tear in movies, it's usually been fixed to tear easily.





It's kind of a bit weird sometimes. I know I've commented on it already, but in a somewhat contrary position...

If you practice ripping clothing, you can rip clothing surprisingly easily.

The smoother the fabric (like a cotton mix shirt, the type with a collar), generally the easier it rips - unless it's got multiple layers with contrasting grain, like you get on collars and shoulders.

It usually depends on puncturing the cloth if you want a mid sheet rip - and the more stretch a fabric has (like the material commonly used on t-shirts) the more difficult that is.


----------



## dvcochran

Tez3 said:


> but you still need the constant repetition of techniques to make them instinctive and can use them immediately if you are attacked.



Love this statement. Encapsulated the everything of learning martial arts.


----------



## Tez3

pdg said:


> It's kind of a bit weird sometimes. I know I've commented on it already, but in a somewhat contrary position...
> 
> If you practice ripping clothing, you can rip clothing surprisingly easily.
> 
> The smoother the fabric (like a cotton mix shirt, the type with a collar), generally the easier it rips - unless it's got multiple layers with contrasting grain, like you get on collars and shoulders.
> 
> It usually depends on puncturing the cloth if you want a mid sheet rip - and the more stretch a fabric has (like the material commonly used on t-shirts) the more difficult that is.




I used to do a lot of dressmaking when my daughter was young, you can get a straighter edge with many materials if you tear it but you do have to start it off with cutting it first.
Choking someone with an item of clothing often means 'bunching' the material up which makes it much harder as you say with the warp and weft going different ways. T shirt material is knitted material not a woven one so is difficult to actually tear without a hole being made first.


----------



## pdg

Tez3 said:


> I used to do a lot of dressmaking when my daughter was young, you can get a straighter edge with many materials if you tear it but you do have to start it off with cutting it first.
> Choking someone with an item of clothing often means 'bunching' the material up which makes it much harder as you say with the warp and weft going different ways. T shirt material is knitted material not a woven one so is difficult to actually tear without a hole being made first.



There's a bunch of tricks to getting straight edges and consistent tears - or actually tears of any kind.

Just random grabbing and pulling isn't one I remember though.


----------



## _Simon_




----------



## Danny T

quasar44 said:


> Was this BJJ ??


BJJ? No but it is in Gracie Jiu Jitsu


quasar44 said:


> I see it’s from the gracies -,then I admit I am wrong
> Those guys know every submission ever invented plus 10 variations if they don’t work
> Very high IQ family


Check this from 'The Gracie Academy' start at about the :056 mark.


----------



## quasar44

Danny T said:


> BJJ? No but it is in Gracie Jiu Jitsu
> 
> Check this from 'The Gracie Academy' start at about the :056 mark.



I will look later


----------



## quasar44

_Simon_ said:


>


HH has had insane injuries and surgeries 
Pro wrestling is like the NFL


----------



## quasar44

quasar44 said:


> people don’t realize just how badly these guys get injured all the time


----------



## Buka

Danny T said:


> BJJ? No but it is in Gracie Jiu Jitsu
> 
> Check this from 'The Gracie Academy' start at about the :056 mark.



Yeah, but that first clothing choke ain’t gonna’ work, because, you know, he’s wearing a T-shirt.


----------



## _Simon_

quasar44 said:


> HH has had insane injuries and surgeries
> Pro wrestling is like the NFL


YES far out HHH has been through the wringer... will never forget him tearing his quad completely, yet finishing the match. Unreal


----------



## quasar44

Buka said:


> Yeah, but that first clothing choke ain’t gonna’ work, because, you know, he’s wearing a T-shirt.



only choke that could work against his size is rear naked 
 A triangle choke and he would pick you off the ground in 2 seconds 
 Maybe a Darci choke 
 I would never mess with a 6-6 , 300 ib dude


----------



## quasar44

I am an average white belt in BJJ
I have no ranking as I do no gi !!
This one guy started a year after me and already has a blue and he is not that good .
 Him and I fought to a draw but him being 20 yrs younger would win if the match was more than 5 min


----------



## quasar44

I am the worst in my BJJ class 
I am in the upper middle of my beg mma class which is half wrestling 
I am in middle of my striking class

why last in BJJ :  because it’s a hard class and I am not the brightest guy or biggest


----------



## Headhunter

quasar44 said:


> I am the worst in my BJJ class
> I am in the upper middle of my beg mma class which is half wrestling
> I am in middle of my striking class
> 
> why last in BJJ :  because it’s a hard class and I am not the brightest guy or biggest


Neither of which actually matters so stop making excuses


----------



## Headhunter

quasar44 said:


> I am an average white belt in BJJ
> I have no ranking as I do no gi !!
> This one guy started a year after me and already has a blue and he is not that good .
> Him and I fought to a draw but him being 20 yrs younger would win if the match was more than 5 min


No if he beats you after 5 minutes it has nothing to do with someone being 20 years younger. It's to do with the fact he's fitter than you. Stop blaming age for your poor performance


----------



## Headhunter

quasar44 said:


> only choke that could work against his size is rear naked
> A triangle choke and he would pick you off the ground in 2 seconds
> Maybe a Darci choke
> I would never mess with a 6-6 , 300 ib dude


Oh wow this wins most ignorant comment of the day. I'd ask if you're serious but I just know you are


----------



## pdg

quasar44 said:


> Him and I fought to a draw but him being 20 yrs younger would win if the match was more than 5 min



Get fitter then.


----------



## Headhunter

quasar44 said:


> I am the worst in my BJJ class
> I am in the upper middle of my beg mma class which is half wrestling
> I am in middle of my striking class
> 
> why last in BJJ :  because it’s a hard class and I am not the brightest guy or biggest


We get it you suck at bjj. You've told us that about 100 times...you suck so what're you going to do about it to get better? Or are you just going to continue to blame your instructor, or your age or your back or whatever else pops into your head. Everyone's got an excuse I've got a ton I could use. I'm a diabetic, alcoholic with depression I could easily make excuses for my performance not being good but I don't I just get in there and do what I can to get better. Will I ever be at elite level? No but I'm also not going to sit around blaming everyone but myself. I'm not great at bjj I'm not but that's no ones fault but my own so I get on with it and keep training to get better. Will I ever be an amazing medal winner ? Probably not but I don't care about that stuff. You want to get better there's no quick fix. Stop making excuses stop complaining and just train


----------



## Tez3

quasar44 said:


> him being 20 yrs younger would win if the match was more than 5 min



You've been told this but keep using your age as an excuse, you don't do any fitness or conditioning, that's why you're beaten, nothing to do with age at all. Many of us beat younger people because we stay fit, that and the fact we learnt the basics, keep practising them as well as constantly learn, keeps minds and bodies active.



quasar44 said:


> I am the worst in my BJJ class
> I am in the upper middle of my beg mma class which is half wrestling
> I am in middle of my striking class




Why as a beginner are you doing all these classes? If you are doing a proper MMA class you won't at this point need BJJ and striking classes because that should all be in your MMA. Just do the MMA and a conditioning and fitness class/session, you will benefit far more than classes which are likely to give you conflicting information and where you don't seem to learn a lot. Which instructor is giving you all the duff gen or are you picking it out of random conversations you hear?


----------



## drop bear

gpseymour said:


> When you are learning the basic concepts and techniques, it doesn't matter what you're wearing. Worry about the clothing after you get past the starting point.



The argument is no gi works with a gi. But gi doesn't really work in no gi.

Otherwise I don't think doing either is as big an issue as say rolling without striking. Which changes the dynamic considerably.


----------



## Tez3

drop bear said:


> The argument is no gi works with a gi. But gi doesn't really work in no gi.
> 
> Otherwise I don't think doing either is as big an issue as say rolling without striking. Which changes the dynamic considerably.



Whatever you start in, the beginner's class is the one to go to not start in the advanced class. Always basics first.


----------



## Gerry Seymour

drop bear said:


> The argument is no gi works with a gi. But gi doesn't really work in no gi.
> 
> Otherwise I don't think doing either is as big an issue as say rolling without striking. Which changes the dynamic considerably.


Agreed. For the beginner, though, getting the basic principles is what matters most. And those are (with some adjustment in a couple of areas) basically the same principles. If you can do gi, you can learn the adjustments easily. I do agree the adjustments are probably easier in the other direction, but they mostly only matter when you have a bit of functional skill. If there are beginner classes in both, a new person could pick whichever they prefer. If there's only a beginner class in one (or a better beginner class in one), then they should choose that one, regardless of whether the evil gi is involved or not.

Besides, if he went to the gi class, he could have a fabulous gi like some folks have.


----------



## _Simon_

Just to bring it back home to the OP...

Most likely this one:


----------



## quasar44

MMA class does tons of wrestling which i badly need!! And ground and pound 
 The BJJ does submissions 
The striking does boxing and MT

I need all 3 !!!


----------



## quasar44

I would say my striking is much better than my grappling . It’s low  intermediate level .
 However with only 10 wrestling classes and I have been practicing at home ..I have made very good progress . More progress in 10 classes than the 80 I had with my coach lol
 Whom I fired !!!
 My BJJ I know many of the moves and do ok when we drill but poorly when we fight as I am overmatched and I gas out after 5 min


----------



## quasar44

I am super pleased with my wrestling improvements . This is the only good thing to happened to me since I stated 2 months ago lol


----------



## quasar44

_Simon_ said:


> Just to bring it back home to the OP...
> 
> Most likely this one:




Butt scoot lol 
What a joke


----------



## Headhunter

quasar44 said:


> I am super pleased with my wrestling improvements . This is the only good thing to happened to me since I stated 2 months ago lol


Wow 2 whole months that's so long.....sarcasm. 2 months is no time at all


----------



## Headhunter

quasar44 said:


> I would say my striking is much better than my grappling . It’s low  intermediate level .
> However with only 10 wrestling classes and I have been practicing at home ..I have made very good progress . More progress in 10 classes than the 80 I had with my coach lol
> Whom I fired !!!
> My BJJ I know many of the moves and do ok when we drill but poorly when we fight as I am overmatched and I gas out after 5 min


And that's because your fitness is poor...not because of your age before you say it but because your fitness is poor


----------



## Tez3

quasar44 said:


> MMA class does tons of wrestling which i badly need!! And ground and pound
> The BJJ does submissions
> The striking does boxing and MT
> 
> I need all 3 !!!




Your MMA class isn't an MMA class if it does 'tons' of wrestling and no striking or submissions. Just who are you training with?



quasar44 said:


> My BJJ I know many of the moves and do ok when we drill but poorly when we fight as I am overmatched and I gas out after 5 min



1. You don't know many of the moves.
2. You aren't 'overmatched' you are in the wrong class.
3. You gas because you aren't fit.

You seem to have everything backwards.


----------



## Monkey Turned Wolf

quasar44 said:


> MMA class does tons of wrestling which i badly need!! And ground and pound
> The BJJ does submissions
> The striking does boxing and MT
> 
> I need all 3 !!!


Need for what?


----------



## Headhunter

Tez3 said:


> Your MMA class isn't an MMA class if it does 'tons' of wrestling and no striking or submissions. Just who are you training with?
> 
> 
> 
> 1. You don't know many of the moves.
> 2. You aren't 'overmatched' you are in the wrong class.
> 3. You gas because you aren't fit.
> 
> You seem to have everything backwards.


More than likely this "Mma" coach is just a wrestler who teaches wrestling but calls it Mma to get people through the door. Seen that a number of times


----------



## Tez3

Headhunter said:


> More than likely this "Mma" coach is just a wrestler who teaches wrestling but calls it Mma to get people through the door. Seen that a number of times




I suspect you're right. MMA is a large subject to teach but we do it, as many other places do. Some students do want to fight or at least have one fight but most just enjoy training. It really does need to be *mixed *martial arts though not just wrestling with a bit of punching on the floor. 
Large gyms with specialised instructors can provide separate classes mostly for those serious about fighting or just wanting to do one discipline but even they usually  provide a beginner's class for proper MMA. They always provide conditioning and fitness classes.
After a while doing the beginners MMA class you can discuss with your instructor if you want to do other classes such as MT or BJJ, there should be method in your training.
Many students I know already do one style either stand up or groundwork which here is usually Judo or BJJ so they will go for the opposite of what they can do already, then go on to 'join them up'. These days younger people will go straight for the MMA as it's been going long enough to be properly 'joined up' with decent coaches available. Twenty odd years ago we had to do the joining up ourselves so newcomers had the advantage now of our experiences ( good and bad lol)

This is one of the best gyms going, classes tailored to the needs of the students with excellent coaches who are available for the advice quarsar44 needs instead of posting on here. this is what he should be looking for, they will advise which classes he should take, what is too much or too little training and yes they will tell him to take a fitness session. You also cannot go into the fighters MMA classes without the coaches permission.
Membership - London Shootfighters


----------



## Buka

quasar44 said:


> only choke that could work against his size is rear naked
> A triangle choke and he would pick you off the ground in 2 seconds
> Maybe a Darci choke
> I would never mess with a 6-6 , 300 ib dude



Rener is about six four, probably a hundred ninety five. I'm not messing with anyone, unless I have to. And if a 6-6, 300 hundred pound dude messes with you, you deal with. Maybe you run, maybe you don't, maybe you choke him, maybe he chokes you. It's why it's called a fight.


----------



## quasar44

Headhunter said:


> More than likely this "Mma" coach is just a wrestler who teaches wrestling but calls it Mma to get people through the door. Seen that a number of times



No he is a pro MMA fighter . I cant mention his name but he has fought in many organizations


----------



## quasar44

Tez3 said:


> I suspect you're right. MMA is a large subject to teach but we do it, as many other places do. Some students do want to fight or at least have one fight but most just enjoy training. It really does need to be *mixed *martial arts though not just wrestling with a bit of punching on the floor.
> Large gyms with specialised instructors can provide separate classes mostly for those serious about fighting or just wanting to do one discipline but even they usually  provide a beginner's class for proper MMA. They always provide conditioning and fitness classes.
> After a while doing the beginners MMA class you can discuss with your instructor if you want to do other classes such as MT or BJJ, there should be method in your training.
> Many students I know already do one style either stand up or groundwork which here is usually Judo or BJJ so they will go for the opposite of what they can do already, then go on to 'join them up'. These days younger people will go straight for the MMA as it's been going long enough to be properly 'joined up' with decent coaches available. Twenty odd years ago we had to do the joining up ourselves so newcomers had the advantage now of our experiences ( good and bad lol)
> 
> This is one of the best gyms going, classes tailored to the needs of the students with excellent coaches who are available for the advice quarsar44 needs instead of posting on here. this is what he should be looking for, they will advise which classes he should take, what is too much or too little training and yes they will tell him to take a fitness session. You also cannot go into the fighters MMA classes without the coaches permission.
> Membership - London Shootfighters



The Gym has a class call Beginners MMA and PRO MMA. I do the Beginners lol.
I love the Wrestling !! ITs my favorite part. 
The Coach is a high level in Striking, BJJ and Wrestling. HE is well known


----------



## quasar44

Got my butt kicked in BJJ .. just now. I did learn some cool defensive moves. I had to quit after 15 min of rolling as I was wiped out


----------



## quasar44

Headhunter said:


> Wow 2 whole months that's so long.....sarcasm. 2 months is no time at all



NO its not but 2 months from nothing is a huge. I can link these moves together in practice.. Probably not live but I know them. By summer they should be pretty ingrained


----------



## quasar44

kempodisciple said:


> Need for what?



To be a good fighter and self-defense guy. Along with my prior Krav MAGA and Muay Thai


----------



## quasar44

Tez3 said:


> Your MMA class isn't an MMA class if it does 'tons' of wrestling and no striking or submissions. Just who are you training with?
> 
> 
> 
> 1. You don't know many of the moves.
> 2. You aren't 'overmatched' you are in the wrong class.
> 3. You gas because you aren't fit.
> 
> You seem to have everything backwards.



We do submissions !!!! We also do punching


----------



## Headhunter

quasar44 said:


> No he is a pro MMA fighter . I cant mention his name but he has fought in many organizations


Why can't you mention his name?....is it top secret matches....


----------



## Headhunter

quasar44 said:


> To be a good fighter and self-defense guy. Along with my prior Krav MAGA and Muay Thai


You know there's no such thing as a "self defence guy?"


----------



## quasar44

Headhunter said:


> Why can't you mention his name?....is it top secret matches....



I wont mention names !!! EVER !!! He is not a super star lol but has been around.
  I think people have me all wrong here: I am just a guy looking to make modest improvements and not thinking I am the next Super Star lol.
I am a  very humble guy of humble origins


----------



## Headhunter

quasar44 said:


> Got my butt kicked in BJJ .. just now. I did learn some cool defensive moves. I had to quit after 15 min of rolling as I was wiped out


Work on your fitness then and okay you got your butt kicked we get it you keep telling us this


----------



## Headhunter

quasar44 said:


> I wont mention names !!! EVER !!! He is not a super star lol but has been around.
> I think people have me all wrong here: I am just a guy looking to make modest improvements and not thinking I am the next Super Star lol.
> I am a  very humble guy of humble origins


If he's been around then you should be able to tell us his name. No reason for you not to you haven't been trash talking him (just your other coaches) if he's been around then people here should know who he is then who've been around the sport a long time


----------



## Headhunter

quasar44 said:


> I wont mention names !!! EVER !!! He is not a super star lol but has been around.
> I think people have me all wrong here: I am just a guy looking to make modest improvements and not thinking I am the next Super Star lol.
> I am a  very humble guy of humble origins


The ones who have to constantly tell us how humble they are....generally aren't. That's from my experience


----------



## Tez3

quasar44 said:


> I am a very humble guy of humble origins



A regular Uriah Heep then.



quasar44 said:


> I wont mention names !!! EVER !!! He is not a super star lol but has been around.




Of course he has. 



quasar44 said:


> We do submissions !!!! We also do punching



Sounds like a trailer for a B movie.



quasar44 said:


> To be a good fighter and self-defense guy.





quasar44 said:


> I had to quit after 15 min of rolling as I was wiped out



GET FIT.


----------



## quasar44

Tez3 said:


> A regular Uriah Heep then.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course he has.
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds like a trailer for a B movie.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GET FIT.





Headhunter said:


> The ones who have to constantly tell us how humble they are....generally aren't. That's from my experience



That I wont do.. Its a small gym and thats all I will say.

IN BJJ I did learn some great defenses to submissions that I never knew about. I Fought a white belt to a draw despite giving up 50-70 pounds. I was crushed by a really good blue belt and submittted 3 times in 5 min. Then I was crushed by a Brown belt . Then we still had 25 min left and I called it a day. The HEad coach knows that I leave early due to work but he also knows that the other reason is that I can hang with them


----------



## quasar44

I come here because I like to communicate with people and get advise.

Many have said I need to get bigger, stronger and in better shape. This is very true. I will hit the gym this weekend.
My doctor said I have high cholestorol so I quit all fast food but my weight has dropped from 160 to 153. That scares me

I have  a good schedule now

MMA- twice a week
BJJ- twice a week
Boxing/MT- only once a week
 That is 5-6 hours of contact and that is my limit


----------



## Gerry Seymour

quasar44 said:


> No he is a pro MMA fighter . I cant mention his name but he has fought in many organizations


What, is this Fight Club training?


----------



## quasar44

gpseymour said:


> What, is this Fight Club training?



I learned how to escape the Triangle choke finally after 19 months lol.
So many bad BJJ teachers out there


----------



## pdg

quasar44 said:


> Many have said I need to get bigger, stronger and in better shape.



I don't recall anyone saying you needed to get bigger.

Stronger, certainly.

Better shape - well, fitter. Actual shape - that'll get fixed by being stronger and fitter.


----------



## Buka

quasar44 said:


> That I wont do.. Its a small gym and thats all I will say.
> 
> IN BJJ I did learn some great defenses to submissions that I never knew about. I Fought a white belt to a draw despite giving up 50-70 pounds. I was crushed by a really good blue belt and submittted 3 times in 5 min. Then I was crushed by a Brown belt . Then we still had 25 min left and I called it a day. The HEad coach knows that I leave early due to work but he also knows that the other reason is that I can hang with them





quasar44 said:


> That I wont do.. Its a small gym and thats all I will say.
> 
> IN BJJ I did learn some great defenses to submissions that I never knew about. I Fought a white belt to a draw despite giving up 50-70 pounds. I was crushed by a really good blue belt and submittted 3 times in 5 min. Then I was crushed by a Brown belt . Then we still had 25 min left and I called it a day. The HEad coach knows that I leave early due to work but he also knows that the other reason is that I can hang with them





quasar44 said:


> That I wont do.. Its a small gym and thats all I will say.
> 
> IN BJJ I did learn some great defenses to submissions that I never knew about. I Fought a white belt to a draw despite giving up 50-70 pounds. I was crushed by a really good blue belt and submittted 3 times in 5 min. Then I was crushed by a Brown belt . Then we still had 25 min left and I called it a day. The HEad coach knows that I leave early due to work but he also knows that the other reason is that I can hang with them



Tell them nothing!


----------



## Headhunter

quasar44 said:


> I learned how to escape the Triangle choke finally after 19 months lol.
> So many bad BJJ teachers out there


Ah here we go again blaming everyone but you


----------



## Dirty Dog

quasar44 said:


> I learned how to escape the Triangle choke finally after 19 months lol.
> So many bad BJJ teachers out there



How do you determine that your failure to learn is the fault of the teacher, rather than the student?


----------



## quasar44

Dirty Dog said:


> How do you determine that your failure to learn is the fault of the teacher, rather than the student?



Because after 5 coaches nobody ever should me a good def 
My private coach had this super tricky move that seemed odd


----------



## quasar44

Headhunter said:


> Ah here we go again blaming everyone but you



I can blame myself or the Coach depending on the curriculum


----------



## Dirty Dog

quasar44 said:


> Because after 5 coaches nobody ever should me a good def
> My private coach had this super tricky move that seemed odd



So all those teachers who I suppose have managed to train plenty of other people were the problem, not you?


----------



## Tez3

quasar44 said:


> I Fought a white belt to a draw despite giving up 50-70 pounds. I was crushed by a really good blue belt and submittted 3 times in 5 min. Then I was crushed by a Brown belt .




In class you should not be_ fighting_ anyone. A good instructor will have his students rolling with everyone with the instructions to use techniques only not strength. The idea is that the stronger students have to learn not to rely on strength instead of technique and the smaller students to be able to use techniques on all shapes and sizes, it's improving for everyone.

If your 'instructor' is having his students fight each other and you won't mention his name then is it basically Fight Club.



quasar44 said:


> My doctor said I have high cholestorol so I quit all fast food but my weight has dropped from 160 to 153. That scares me




Just how much fast food did you eat? Dropping fast food is not the solution a proper balanced diet is, that and getting fit will sort out quite a number of problems. As others have said no-one said get bigger, just fitter, it seems it's imperative now for your health. You will have more problems in the future if you don't sort them now.



quasar44 said:


> Because after 5 coaches nobody ever should me a good def
> My private coach had this super tricky move that seemed odd



Odd to a beginner, most moves look that way when you are starting out. It's odd that you say there's a lot of so called bad BJJ coaches out there but neglect to mention that there's bad Krav Maga instructors too. Perhaps that's the root of your problem, you went to a phony KM place and they filled your head with nonsense? Your views on karate, Judo and TKD seem skewed as well as this fixation that BJJ in a gi is 'fake' sounds like you have seriously got things mixed up.


----------



## Headhunter

quasar44 said:


> Because after 5 coaches nobody ever should me a good def
> My private coach had this super tricky move that seemed odd


You mean you couldn't do it? That's what it is YOU couldn't do it. Stop blaming the instructors and look in the mirror. You didn't understand something they taught that's on you. Stop making excuses no one here is believing them


----------



## Headhunter

quasar44 said:


> I can blame myself or the Coach depending on the curriculum


I'm sure you will blame the coach because you can't take responsibility at all. All your talk about being humble....rubbish. If you can't do something and immediately blame the coach....that's not humbleness


----------



## Danny T

quasar44 said:


> I learned how to escape the Triangle choke finally after 19 months lol.
> So many bad BJJ teachers out there


How many years of schooling did you have before you could write a stand on its own merit argument? I can only assume your first several grade school teachers were terrible as well because I sure you weren't taught that in your first 19 months either.


----------



## quasar44

Tez3 said:


> In class you should not be_ fighting_ anyone. A good instructor will have his students rolling with everyone with the instructions to use techniques only not strength. The idea is that the stronger students have to learn not to rely on strength instead of technique and the smaller students to be able to use techniques on all shapes and sizes, it's improving for everyone.
> 
> If your 'instructor' is having his students fight each other and you won't mention his name then is it basically Fight Club.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just how much fast food did you eat? Dropping fast food is not the solution a proper balanced diet is, that and getting fit will sort out quite a number of problems. As others have said no-one said get bigger, just fitter, it seems it's imperative now for your health. You will have more problems in the future if you don't sort them now.
> 
> 
> 
> Odd to a beginner, most moves look that way when you are starting out. It's odd that you say there's a lot of so called bad BJJ coaches out there but neglect to mention that there's bad Krav Maga instructors too. Perhaps that's the root of your problem, you went to a phony KM place and they filled your head with nonsense? Your views on karate, Judo and TKD seem skewed as well as this fixation that BJJ in a gi is 'fake' sounds like you have seriously got things mixed up.



Yes there are many fake Krav schools . Maybe 2/3


----------



## quasar44

Tez3 said:


> In class you should not be_ fighting_ anyone. A good instructor will have his students rolling with everyone with the instructions to use techniques only not strength. The idea is that the stronger students have to learn not to rely on strength instead of technique and the smaller students to be able to use techniques on all shapes and sizes, it's improving for everyone.
> 
> If your 'instructor' is having his students fight each other and you won't mention his name then is it basically Fight Club.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just how much fast food did you eat? Dropping fast food is not the solution a proper balanced diet is, that and getting fit will sort out quite a number of problems. As others have said no-one said get bigger, just fitter, it seems it's imperative now for your health. You will have more problems in the future if you don't sort them now.
> 
> 
> 
> Odd to a beginner, most moves look that way when you are starting out. It's odd that you say there's a lot of so called bad BJJ coaches out there but neglect to mention that there's bad Krav Maga instructors too. Perhaps that's the root of your problem, you went to a phony KM place and they filled your head with nonsense? Your views on karate, Judo and TKD seem skewed as well as this fixation that BJJ in a gi is 'fake' sounds like you have seriously got things mixed up.


 Oh no 
The students are just better than me 
I am very sore 
My BJJ coach is a different guy lol


----------



## quasar44

My neck is super sore
Lats sore 
Quad sore

Very minor but I don’t like pain


----------



## Danny T

quasar44 said:


> My neck is super sore
> Lats sore
> Quad sore
> 
> Very minor but I don’t like pain


Pain?!!! That's not pain that's just discomfort. I'm sorry but if you find muscle soreness painful you've never been in pain.


----------



## Monkey Turned Wolf

quasar44 said:


> Oh no
> The students are just better than me
> I am very sore
> My BJJ coach is a different guy lol


If the students are better than you, that suggests it's not an issue of the instructor not knowing how to teach.


----------



## Tez3

quasar44 said:


> Oh no
> The students are just better than me
> I am very sore
> My BJJ coach is a different guy lol




You said 'fight' then say no it's not? 

As Danny said, that's not pain, you need to get fit.




quasar44 said:


> Yes there are many fake Krav schools . Maybe 2/3



And how do you differentiate the good from the bad?


----------



## pdg

quasar44 said:


> My neck is super sore
> Lats sore
> Quad sore
> 
> Very minor but I don’t like pain





Danny T said:


> Pain?!!! That's not pain that's just discomfort. I'm sorry but if you find muscle soreness painful you've never been in pain.



This.


Did you ever think that maybe you chose the wrong type of hobby for you?


----------



## Headhunter

quasar44 said:


> My neck is super sore
> Lats sore
> Quad sore
> 
> Very minor but I don’t like pain


Get used to it if you want to get better.


You don't like pain? Well who does but maybe that's why you're not improving because you only do what's comfortable because you don't want to feel "pain"


----------



## Headhunter

quasar44 said:


> My neck is super sore
> Lats sore
> Quad sore
> 
> Very minor but I don’t like pain


I have to ask.....why're you telling us this?...you're sore after training? Yeah so what? Everyone is. I don't know if you want us to have sympathy but well we don't because every single person has felt the exact same thing. You just push through it and get on with it


----------



## quasar44

pdg said:


> This.
> 
> 
> Did you ever think that maybe you chose the wrong type of hobby for you?



NO !!!! This is my hobby


----------



## quasar44

Dirty Dog said:


> How do you determine that your failure to learn is the fault of the teacher, rather than the student?



Good question ... I can tell by the quality of instructions and curriculum.
Does the class go over much tehnique that is useful to you.
Does the class just only focus on competitive rolling?
Does the class only go over advanced positions that are usually useless in a real fight


----------



## quasar44

There are many fake KRAV and fake Karate Dojos everywhere that teach garbage


----------



## Monkey Turned Wolf

quasar44 said:


> NO !!!! This is my hobby


It's your hobby but you don't like the things that will get you better in your hobby, which would be fine...but you also seem to want to get better in your hobby.

So either accept it as a hobby and that you're not going to improve. Accept that you'll have to push yourself to improve. Or accept that you're unwilling to do that, and switch to a hobby that you can improve in. 

Or just keep whining about it, without changing anything.


----------



## Dirty Dog

quasar44 said:


> Good question ... I can tell by the quality of instructions and curriculum.
> Does the class go over much tehnique that is useful to you.
> Does the class just only focus on competitive rolling?
> Does the class only go over advanced positions that are usually useless in a real fight



Huh. So even though you don't actually have the training or experience to know these things, you feel qualified to decide that the problem is always the instructor. Never you. 
Huh.
Imagine that.


----------



## quasar44

Dirty Dog said:


> Huh. So even though you don't actually have the training or experience to know these things, you feel qualified to decide that the problem is always the instructor. Never you.
> Huh.
> Imagine that.



Oh no..I have blamed myself many times as being a " slow learner " and not being the biggest, fastest or strongest around. I have put the blame  on myself but , at the same time, I have had some lousy coaches


----------



## quasar44

I will keep at it !!!!

Cant believe I have another class coming up in hours lol. I am going to have to  dig deep


----------



## Gerry Seymour

quasar44 said:


> Good question ... I can tell by the quality of instructions and curriculum.
> Does the class go over much tehnique that is useful to you.
> Does the class just only focus on competitive rolling?
> Does the class only go over advanced positions that are usually useless in a real fight


You've described not quality of teaching but focus. I don't compete, so a fantastic class on competition rules and how to exploit them is useless to me. But it can still be a fantastic class.


----------



## Monkey Turned Wolf

quasar44 said:


> Oh no..I have blamed myself many times as being a " slow learner " and not being the biggest, fastest or strongest around. I have put the blame  on myself but , at the same time, I have had some lousy coaches


You put the blame on yourself, but don't change it. You can make yourself bigger, faster or stronger if you wish to.


----------



## Headhunter

quasar44 said:


> Good question ... I can tell by the quality of instructions and curriculum.
> Does the class go over much tehnique that is useful to you.
> Does the class just only focus on competitive rolling?
> Does the class only go over advanced positions that are usually useless in a real fight


So you think the entire class should be focused on you? Wow that's some ego


----------



## Headhunter

quasar44 said:


> I will keep at it !!!!
> 
> Cant believe I have another class coming up in hours lol. I am going to have to  dig deep


and? You want a round of applause for going to class?


----------



## Headhunter

quasar44 said:


> NO !!!! This is my hobby


Then stop whining about it and stop blaming other people for why your not improving, stop making excuses about why your unfit and just get on with it


----------



## quasar44

Headhunter said:


> Then stop whining about it and stop blaming other people for why your not improving, stop making excuses about why your unfit and just get on with it



I am sure I train more than you do and much harder !!!


----------



## quasar44

Headhunter said:


> Then stop whining about it and stop blaming other people for why your not improving, stop making excuses about why your unfit and just get on with it



And what exactly do you train In to criticize me??


----------



## Headhunter

quasar44 said:


> And what exactly do you train In to criticize me??


3rd Dan in kenpo, 4 stripe white belt bjj, p2 Krav Maga, green belt in ishinryu karate had 10 boxing matches 6 kickboxing matches and 1 Mma fight


----------



## Headhunter

quasar44 said:


> I am sure I train more than you do and much harder !!!


Maybe you do maybe you don't but I'm not on here whining and making excuses for myself about why I'm out of shape or why I'm not improving.....also seems your humbleness is starting to fade a bit


----------



## quasar44

Ever try


Headhunter said:


> Maybe you do maybe you don't but I'm not on here whining and making excuses for myself about why I'm out of shape or why I'm not improving.....also seems your humbleness is starting to fade a bit



I am not going to sit here and take personal attacks from you . I have been very polite and you have been rude and obnoxious .
 Yes you have a good striking resume ..it’s better than mine but maybe you can tone down your comment about me


----------



## quasar44

I was a level 3 Krav guy and we have that and BJJ in common


----------



## Headhunter

quasar44 said:


> I was a level 3 Krav guy and we have that and BJJ in common



Lol i have not made any personal remarks. All i have said is if you want to improve you need to stop complaining and blaming everyone else and making excuses. But if your not going to listen then thats up to you


----------



## quasar44

Headhunter said:


> Lol i have not made any personal remarks. All i have said is if you want to improve you need to stop complaining and blaming everyone else and making excuses. But if your not going to listen then thats up to you



if I am not receiving good coaching I have every right to complain as I am paying for it !!
 I think my mma coach is outstanding and the beg BJJ coach is great . The head BJJ coach is too focused on little technique and 55 min rolls


----------



## pdg

quasar44 said:


> Good question ... I can tell by the quality of instructions and curriculum.
> Does the class go over much tehnique that is useful to you.
> Does the class just only focus on competitive rolling?
> Does the class only go over advanced positions that are usually useless in a real fight



The only basis you have for quality of instruction and curriculum is what is in your head - just because it's not suited to you, or you're not suited to it, doesn't have any bearing on the quality.

Ditto what is "useful to you".

Competitive rolling / advanced positions? You do realise that competition and technique (after entertainment and fitness) is by far the vastly overwhelming reason for people to do any MA?

I reckon I could go around every single MA club (of all disciplines) in my area and come away with an amount of people I can count on one hand who have "real fight" as their primary purpose, and most of those will be beginners or teenagers.


----------



## Tez3

pdg said:


> ...….and come away with an amount of people I can count on one hand who have "real fight" as their primary purpose, and most of those will be beginners or teenagers.




We have many who come to train MMA who don't want to fight but after a while feel they want a fight, just the one, to test themselves and their training but it's not about the fighting as such. Some do and are matched with a similar opponent at an amateur level, many don't.


----------



## Tez3

quasar44 said:


> Good question ... I can tell by the quality of instructions and curriculum.
> Does the class go over much tehnique that is useful to you.
> Does the class just only focus on competitive rolling?
> Does the class only go over advanced positions that are usually useless in a real fight




What is your benchmark for telling the quality of instruction and especially the curriculum if you are a beginner?

How do you know if it's useful when you are a beginner? 

If the class only focuses on competitive rolling then perhaps it's a class for those who want competitive rolling ie more advanced or competitive fighters. It doesn't mean it's a poor standard.

If a class only goes over advanced positions and you don't 'get' them you are in the wrong class and not in a postition to judge whether they are useful in a fight or not.


----------



## Tez3

quasar44 said:


> I was a level 3 Krav guy and we have that and BJJ in common



According to this, level three is equal to green belt. Our karate system Wado Ryu has green as the 4th belt they earn, it's not even half way into the curriculum and this is fairly common among styles that use belts. 
For someone to reach this level according again to this site's curriculum you are showing you don't know as much as they expect.
Level 3 – Krav Maga Wordwide™ Official Training Center


----------



## Gerry Seymour

quasar44 said:


> if I am not receiving good coaching I have every right to complain as I am paying for it !!
> I think my mma coach is outstanding and the beg BJJ coach is great . The head BJJ coach is too focused on little technique and 55 min rolls


You keep saying that as if it’s a sign of bad instructing. It’s a class format, mate. You are in the wrong class.


----------



## pdg

Tez3 said:


> We have many who come to train MMA who don't want to fight but after a while feel they want a fight, just the one, to test themselves and their training but it's not about the fighting as such. Some do and are matched with a similar opponent at an amateur level, many don't.



Those people wouldn't be included in my count though.

In my (limited) experience, the type of person to say stuff like "useful in a real fight" aren't talking about a match/competition in the slightest - it's more street bro innit.

And an organised MMA (or whatever) fight comes under the competition heading for me - so there's a different intent behind wanting to have a (possibly singular) fight under those terms as opposed to wanting to go out scrapping.

I'd really like it if I was correct in thinking that most who want to fight competitively have a similar difference in their head too.


----------



## Tez3

pdg said:


> In my (limited) experience, the type of person to say stuff like "useful in a real fight" aren't talking about a match/competition in the slightest - it's more street bro innit.




My students however are quite happily fighting anyway, training or not lol. They don't talk about 'real fights', they know more than most what real fighting is. They quite like a competitive match though, they are naturally competitive people.


----------



## pdg

Tez3 said:


> My students however are quite happily fighting anyway, training or not lol. They don't talk about 'real fights', they know more than most what real fighting is. They quite like a competitive match though, they are naturally competitive people.



If your students are the ones I think they are, then their interpretation of "real fight" is worlds away from the guy who thinks real fights happen outside a pub...


----------



## Tez3

pdg said:


> If your students are the ones I think they are, then their interpretation of "real fight" is worlds away from the guy who thinks real fights happen outside a pub...




Yep,  fight is what they do in their day job, a brawl outside a pub is something that happens when civvies think they are 'ard and can take them on, which they can't unless they gang up on just one, which has happened.
They mostly train MMA because it encapsulates what their job training is about, being fit, think quickly, acting decisively and because it's enjoyable and fun. it's sporting, relying on your opponent to let go when you tap and shaking hands at the end of a bout or roll, no rancour when losing or crowing when winning.  
They mostly don't compete in organised competitions but as I said may have one bout to see what it's like to get into the cage,  they are competitively natured though with each other which can be funny.


----------



## quasar44

I train for Self def and hobby
I am 44 and not going to fight in a cage nor would I if I was 24

 I am new to grappling only 20 months but I have done years of Krav and MT before
  I don’t care for karate !!!


----------



## quasar44

I only do the advance class now once a week because the beg class I can only do once a week
 It’s hard to juggle all this when I work full time


----------



## quasar44

I am finally leaning good wrestling skills !!!
This is a big positive for me


----------



## quasar44

I am going to maybe switch BJJ gyms in 4 months 
 Right now I have to make it work .
I just hope to god they don’t change the mma class hours !!’   
 I want to stick with mma beg class aslong as possible and through 2020 
  I don’t think I will work with my old coach again


----------



## Tez3

quasar44 said:


> I train for Self def and hobby
> I am 44 and not going to fight in a cage nor would I if I was 24
> 
> I am new to grappling only 20 months but I have done years of Krav and MT before
> I don’t care for karate !!!





quasar44 said:


> I am finally leaning good wrestling skills !!!
> This is a big positive for me




Is English your first language?





quasar44 said:


> I don’t care for karate !!!




As you know nothing about it as demonstrated by your previous remarks I can safely say karate doesn't care for you either. 



quasar44 said:


> I am going to maybe switch BJJ gyms in 4 months




Of course you are, I expect the instructors are bad so you need to move on.....again. 



quasar44 said:


> I only do the advance class now once a week because the beg class I can only do once a week


----------



## quasar44

Tez3 said:


> According to this, level three is equal to green belt. Our karate system Wado Ryu has green as the 4th belt they earn, it's not even half way into the curriculum and this is fairly common among styles that use belts.
> For someone to reach this level according again to this site's curriculum you are showing you don't know as much as they expect.
> Level 3 – Krav Maga Wordwide™ Official Training Center



I have done Krav 4-5 and it has just the simple gun and knife defense along with my fav - the knife hand and ridge hand stuff


----------



## Tez3

quasar44 said:


> I have done Krav 4-5 and it has just the simple gun and knife defense along with my fav - the knife hand and ridge hand stuff




4-5 what? Hours, weeks, months? or are you saying you are level 4-5? If all you have been doing is 'simple' gun defences etc then you aren't experienced at all. Can you do anything on that curriculum for the rank you are claiming then? According to some of the sites on KM, level 3 is an instructor rank.
About KMG | krav-maga.com
Krav Maga Education | Level 3 - Award In Krav Maga Instruction


----------



## quasar44

Tez3 said:


> 4-5 what? Hours, weeks, months? or are you saying you are level 4-5? If all you have been doing is 'simple' gun defences etc then you aren't experienced at all. Can you do anything on that curriculum for the rank you are claiming then? According to some of the sites on KM, level 3 is an instructor rank.
> About KMG | krav-maga.com
> Krav Maga Education | Level 3 - Award In Krav Maga Instruction



I can do the basics level 4 stuff of knife and gun . Am I good ..no but I know more than most . Every Krav school seems to have large differences


----------



## quasar44

My chances of surviving before Krav would be 
Zero  
I would say I have a 30-40 per shot 
I quit Krav only 4 yrs ago but I still practice every week


----------



## quasar44

Krav is very close to karate in many ways with its attacks. It’s like a modern karate without the stupid stances and lame punches but has the same cool hand strikes


----------



## quasar44

No katas or uniforms !!!


----------



## Tez3

quasar44 said:


> Krav is very close to karate in many ways with its attacks. It’s like a modern karate without the stupid stances and lame punches but has the same cool hand strikes





quasar44 said:


> No katas or uniforms !!!



Your ignorance is showing, dear boy. 
Style bashing is not allowed on this site, you clearly are parroting something one of your instructors told you when they were selling you their classes. 

The more you post the more inclined I am to believe you are an MMA fanboy trolling this site and not here for conversation.


----------



## quasar44

Tez3 said:


> Your ignorance is showing, dear boy.
> Style bashing is not allowed on this site, you clearly are parroting something one of your instructors told you when they were selling you their classes.
> 
> The more you post the more inclined I am to believe you are an MMA fanboy trolling this site and not here for conversation.



I don’t need to be on this site


Tez3 said:


> Your ignorance is showing, dear boy.
> Style bashing is not allowed on this site, you clearly are parroting something one of your instructors told you when they were selling you their classes.
> 
> The more you post the more inclined I am to believe you are an MMA fanboy trolling this site and not here for conversation.



MMA is the most superior system by far 
Look I don’t need to be on this site as I post on mma sites. This place seems to have maybe 8 folks and they are all stuck in the 70s


----------



## quasar44

I have praised karate as I love it’s open hand strikes 
We just need an updated karate !!
Krav is close


----------



## quasar44

Tez3 said:


> Your ignorance is showing, dear boy.
> Style bashing is not allowed on this site, you clearly are parroting something one of your instructors told you when they were selling you their classes.
> 
> The more you post the more inclined I am to believe you are an MMA fanboy trolling this site and not here for conversation.



I don’t need to be on this site


Tez3 said:


> Your ignorance is showing, dear boy.
> Style bashing is not allowed on this site, you clearly are parroting something one of your instructors told you when they were selling you their classes.
> 
> The more you post the more inclined I am to believe you are an MMA fanboy trolling this site and not here for conversation.



I don’t need several old men ganging up on me every time I say anything that hurts your feelings 
Keep wearing the Pajamas and thinking it’s 1972


----------



## quasar44

I am about to move on 
You have only 8 active posters here lol


----------



## pdg

quasar44 said:


> I don’t need several old men ganging up on me every time I say anything that hurts your feelings



You've said nothing to hurt my feelings.

You've said plenty to make me think you're actually a bit sad. You have a low opinion of yourself and constantly try to make out everyone is the same as you apart from exceptional athletes.

If you put half as much effort into training as you to talking yourself, various instructors and arts down then you may just find you'll get better.

But with your attitude as it is:



quasar44 said:


> I am about to move on



Seeya - don't let the door hit you in the *** on your way out.


----------



## quasar44

pdg said:


> You've said nothing to hurt my feelings.
> 
> You've said plenty to make me think you're actually a bit sad. You have a low opinion of yourself and constantly try to make out everyone is the same as you apart from exceptional athletes.
> 
> If you put half as much effort into training as you to talking yourself, various instructors and arts down then you may just find you'll get better.
> 
> But with your attitude as it is:
> 
> 
> 
> Seeya - don't let the door hit you in the *** on your way out.


 What exactly do you even train in ??
You have the giant , fat mouth on you


----------



## quasar44

PDg ?? What do you even train in ??


----------



## pdg

It's fairly well known on here what I train in.

And if I tell you in reply I can guarantee that you'll make woefully incorrect assumptions.

But I can't see what bearing my training has on the persona you present.


----------



## Tez3

quasar44 said:


> I don’t need several old men ganging up on me every time I say anything that hurts your feelings




This woman isn't hurt by anything you say, I'm sorry for your ignorance and your need to insult. You clearly know nothing about karate and I'm beginning to doubt much of what you say is true. It's also obvious you don't actually read what we say. 

You don't know half as much as you think you do and that isn't correct anyway. You actually haven't been insulted by anyone of here but you feel the need to lash out when we point out that what you say is incorrect. Feelings don't come into this, at least not ours. It's clear from the way you post that you also post on various MMA sites where slagging off other arts is de rigeur, it's also obvious you don't know as much about MMA ( or other styles even Krav Maga, something my mother was doing in Israel in 1948) as you think you do, yes I do actually know more about MMA and Karate and BJJ than you do, I don't know everything but certainly more than you, a beginner, that's why I'm a senior coach and instructor. 
In your first post you claim to be an MOT, so if that's true ( another thing I doubt and if you have to ask what it is you aren't) I absolutely have the right to call you out, so don't even think about getting stroppy with me.



pdg said:


> *If you put half as much effort into training as you  to talking yourself, various instructors and arts down then you may just find you'll get better.*



Absolutely this.


----------



## quasar44

Tez3 said:


> This woman isn't hurt by anything you say, I'm sorry for your ignorance and your need to insult. You clearly know nothing about karate and I'm beginning to doubt much of what you say is true. It's also obvious you don't actually read what we say.
> 
> You don't know half as much as you think you do and that isn't correct anyway. You actually haven't been insulted by anyone of here but you feel the need to lash out when we point out that what you say is incorrect. Feelings don't come into this, at least not ours. It's clear from the way you post that you also post on various MMA sites where slagging off other arts is de rigeur, it's also obvious you don't know as much about MMA ( or other styles even Krav Maga, something my mother was doing in Israel in 1948) as you think you do, yes I do actually know more about MMA and Karate and BJJ than you do, I don't know everything but certainly more than you, a beginner, that's why I'm a senior coach and instructor.
> In your first post you claim to be an MOT, so if that's true ( another thing I doubt and if you have to ask what it is you aren't) I absolutely have the right to call you out, so don't even think about getting stroppy with me.
> 
> 
> 
> Absolutely this.



You coach what ??
You never did BJJ


----------



## quasar44

pdg said:


> It's fairly well known on here what I train in.
> 
> And if I tell you in reply I can guarantee that you'll make woefully incorrect assumptions.
> 
> But I can't see what bearing my training has on the persona you present.



just what i figured


----------



## quasar44

Tez does what ??? Nothing


----------



## quasar44

I have time warped to 1972 ??


----------



## quasar44

Few here who criticize me but who do nothing of importance


----------



## Tez3

quasar44 said:


> Tez does what ??? Nothing







 

Calm down. You are getting overwrought.


----------



## pdg

Tez3 said:


> View attachment 22675
> 
> Calm down. You are getting overwrought.



Channelling @quasar44 for a moment:

"Anything that guy says means nothing because he's obviously stuck in the past in his pyjamas."


----------



## Tez3

pdg said:


> Channelling @quasar44 for a moment:
> 
> "Anything that guy says means nothing because he's obviously stuck in the past in his pyjamas."



I quite like a man in silk pyjamas though, I really like Georges Saint Pierre in a Gi or without it for that matter, sigh.


----------



## Tez3

Just because....


----------



## Gerry Seymour

quasar44 said:


> Krav is very close to karate in many ways with its attacks. It’s like a modern karate without the stupid stances and lame punches but has the same cool hand strikes


That post displays a pretty bad understanding of Karate. It also hints at a lack of understanding of the principles of Krav.


----------



## Gerry Seymour

Tez3 said:


> I quite like a man in silk pyjamas though, I really like Georges Saint Pierre in a Gi or without it for that matter, sigh.


That's the Tez we all know and love.


----------



## Tez3

gpseymour said:


> That's the Tez we all know and love.




To even things up here's Rosi teaching. She's still involved, doing some BJJ and working with SAFE MMA, climbing and running her osteopathy clinic, she's also a local councillor and stood in the last General Election here in December as a Green candidate, oh and there's her returning to the concert piano scene. I get tired just thinking about it.


----------



## quasar44

gpseymour said:


> That post displays a pretty bad understanding of Karate. It also hints at a lack of understanding of the principles of Krav.


I have done Krav for years from World wide organ out of LA
 I have praised karate but I only said it needs to be updated


----------



## quasar44

New updated karate to reflect 2020


----------



## Tez3

quasar44 said:


> New updated karate to reflect 2020




You are seriously misinformed, your ignorance actually is quite appalling and then you have the cheek to assume you can tell karateka that they need to 'update' karate to 2020.

Okay then clever clogs tell us exactly in minute detail what would 'update' karate, devise a new curriculum bearing in mind all the different styles of karate as well as Bunkai, Kumite and Kihons as well as the Ukewaza, Keriwaza, Tachikata and Tegumi from each style. Then explain exactly how Iain Abernethy is old fashioned and stuck in the 1970s along with many proponents of progressive karate these days. 



quasar44 said:


> World wide organ



it has no heart though.


----------



## Buka

I've been actively training as a Karate black belt for forty six years....so far. I believe karate needs to be updated as well. The world has changed, life has changed, Karate should change as well.

Whatta' think of them apples?


----------



## Tez3

Buka said:


> I've been actively training as a Karate black belt for forty six years....so far. I believe karate needs to be updated as well. The world has changed, life has changed, Karate should change as well.
> 
> Whatta' think of them apples?




As 'karate' is a generic name and there's hundreds of thousands of karateka all around the world I assume what you mean is that your style of karate at the place where you train needs updating. To say otherwise would be a huge generalisation somewhat like saying all Asians are called Bruce Lee.


----------



## Buka

Tez3 said:


> As 'karate' is a generic name and there's hundreds of thousands of karateka all around the world I assume what you mean is that your style of karate at the place where you train needs updating. To say otherwise would be a huge generalisation somewhat like saying all Asians are called Bruce Lee.



I find that rather amusing. Perhaps a bit racist as well.


----------



## Tez3

Buka said:


> I find that rather amusing. Perhaps a bit racist as well.



Ah playing the racist card, always a winner especially when you deliberately miss the point.

So perhaps you could tell us why your karate needs updating?


----------



## Headhunter

Buka said:


> I've been actively training as a Karate black belt for forty six years....so far. I believe karate needs to be updated as well. The world has changed, life has changed, Karate should change as well.
> 
> Whatta' think of them apples?


That's fine because you've actually trained karate. So you've got the experience to back up your claims. He doesn't have that experience. He's never done a class so he's got as much claim to back that up as I have to say that tennis needs to change its rules....I've never even held a tennis racket


----------



## Headhunter

quasar44 said:


> I have done Krav for years from World wide organ out of LA
> I have praised karate but I only said it needs to be updated





quasar44 said:


> I am about to move on
> You have only 8 active posters here lol


this isn't an airport you don't need to announce your departure.

You don't want to be here then don't be here it's up to you. 

And no you haven't hurt my feelings because I don't care about what a stranger says online. But this is an online discussion forum so If you say something I disagree with I'm gonna so say because that's the point of a discussion


----------



## Headhunter

quasar44 said:


> What exactly do you even train in ??
> You have the giant , fat mouth on you


Relax this is a discussion page. People disagree with you so they're saying so. You're the only one getting personal with people questioning their training and throwing out insults.

Personally I have nothing against you because I don't know you. You've said things I've disagreed with so I've said so for the sake of discussion that's it. I'm not angry or upset or bothered in any way at all what is said on this forum because frankly it's a very small insignificant part of my life. 

If you stay on this site then cool fair enough. If you don't then you don't. People here have given you advice either listen to it or don't it's your choice


----------



## quasar44

Tez3 said:


> As 'karate' is a generic name and there's hundreds of thousands of karateka all around the world I assume what you mean is that your style of karate at the place where you train needs updating. To say otherwise would be a huge generalisation somewhat like saying all Asians are called Bruce Lee.



Yes .. I have read there are thousands of various different Karate styles.  Each one can be very different !!!
I think TKD is more uniform but Karate seems to have the most varation from style to style. I mean thousands.
And yes , I support Israel


----------



## quasar44

KRav MAGA in USA is water down as compared to Krav in ISRAEL. Its still KRAV MAGA but its watered down.
Many Israelis seem to like Judo !!!!
I see them taking big medals in the games


----------



## quasar44

TKD in the USA has become almost all kicking !!!! I think Muay Thai is a more effective style


----------



## Headhunter

quasar44 said:


> TKD in the USA has become almost all kicking !!!! I think Muay Thai is a more effective style





quasar44 said:


> TKD in the USA has become almost all kicking !!!! I think Muay Thai is a more effective style


You ever done TKD?


----------



## dvcochran

Headhunter said:


> You ever done TKD?


I guessing that is a Hard no; unless watching Youtube counts.


----------



## Monkey Turned Wolf

ATTENTION ALL USERS:

This is a friendly martial arts forum. That means no targeting other posters, and no style bashing. Please try to keep the TOS in mind as you continue to post.

William H.
@kempodisciple 
MartialTalk Moderator


----------



## quasar44

I am staying he


Headhunter said:


> You ever done TKD?



Actually yes I did in High School but QUIT. I also tried Kung FU and QUIT.
I did do only 6 months of Boxing in College . The coach was good at teaching you how to punch but terrible at strategy 

KF was utterly ridiculous and I quit
TKD- All I remember was outdated punches and trying to do a Crescent kick that I did think much of

At least Okinawa Style seems more realistic. 

I did get plenty of open hand strikes from KRAV such as Knife hand, Ridge, Hammer and Palm
I learned my back fist strikes off the internet and I love that one


----------



## quasar44

I will tone it down, thanks


----------



## Tez3

quasar44 said:


> Actually yes I did in High School but QUIT. I also tried Kung FU and QUIT.



No comment needed.



quasar44 said:


> I did do only 6 months of Boxing in College . The coach was good at teaching you how to punch but terrible at strategy



Coach's fault again. 



quasar44 said:


> KF was utterly ridiculous and I quit
> TKD- All I remember was outdated punches and trying to do a Crescent kick that I did think much of



I assume KF is meant to be Kung Fu, how long did it take for you to decide it was ridiculous?



quasar44 said:


> TKD- All I remember was outdated punches and trying to do a Crescent kick that I did think much of



Explain 'outdated' punches. You do know that many MMA fighters started off in TKD and use those punches very effieciently? They also use a crescent kick too, can make a nice KO. There's  crescent kicks, as you know, in Muay Thai, our fighters go to Fairtex in Thailand and certainly learn there if they don't know them already. Same with the 'outdated' punches. 

The worse thing about being a beginner is not having any perspective, knowledge or experience to judge a martial art. it's something easily remedied, start with an empty cup, listen, practice, practice and then practice some more.


----------



## quasar44

Tez3 said:


> No comment needed.
> 
> 
> 
> Coach's fault again.
> 
> 
> 
> I assume KF is meant to be Kung Fu, how long did it take for you to decide it was ridiculous?
> 
> 
> 
> Explain 'outdated' punches. You do know that many MMA fighters started off in TKD and use those punches very effieciently? They also use a crescent kick too, can make a nice KO. There's  crescent kicks, as you know, in Muay Thai, our fighters go to Fairtex in Thailand and certainly learn there if they don't know them already. Same with the 'outdated' punches.
> 
> The worse thing about being a beginner is not having any perspective, knowledge or experience to judge a martial art. it's something easily remedied, start with an empty cup, listen, practice, practice and then practice some more.



I know your a beginner and its hard to relate to you.. VERY HARD.. Keep at it and you wont be a beginner forever


----------



## quasar44

Reverse punches are vastly inferior to modern day Boxing punches , for example

I did KF only for 3 months and QUIT. It was terrible.


----------



## Headhunter

quasar44 said:


> I know your a beginner and its hard to relate to you.. VERY HARD.. Keep at it and you wont be a beginner forever


HAHAHA


----------



## Headhunter

quasar44 said:


> Reverse punches are vastly inferior to modern day Boxing punches , for example
> 
> I did KF only for 3 months and QUIT. It was terrible.


You just don't learn do you


----------



## quasar44

Headhunter said:


> You just don't learn do you



I am placing you on iggy 
Bye


----------



## Tez3

Headhunter said:


> You just don't learn do you



Your reply


quasar44 said:


> I am placing you on iggy
> Bye




Iggy? what on earth are you talking about? How old are you actually?

Have you any idea what you are coming across as? You quit training in different styles because you thought you know more than the instructors, you slag off styles you know nothing about and then continue to think this site is a place where you can slag off the posters too. 
It's quite clear by now you are here to troll not engage in conversation and discussion.


----------



## Headhunter

quasar44 said:


> I am placing you on iggy
> Bye


I assume you mean ignore?

If so meh your choice I'll lose 0 sleep over it


----------



## quasar44

Tez3 said:


> Your reply
> 
> 
> 
> Iggy? what on earth are you talking about? How old are you actually?
> 
> Have you any idea what you are coming across as? You quit training in different styles because you thought you know more than the instructors, you slag off styles you know nothing about and then continue to think this site is a place where you can slag off the posters too.
> It's quite clear by now you are here to troll not engage in conversation and discussion.



I came here to engage and be friendly and I train m-th !!
I only quit if I feel the style is lousy or bad instructors . I quit 2 MT gyms in 2018

I do 2 mma classes 
2 BJJ classes 
1 big Muay Thai class

I am sure I train more than any 44 yr old guy


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## quasar44

My Krav coaches were excellent but I stayed too long !!!


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## quasar44

If people are combative to me I will iggy them as I don’t come here for negativity


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## Headhunter

quasar44 said:


> If people are combative to me I will iggy them as I don’t come here for negativity


*ignore


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## Headhunter

quasar44 said:


> I came here to engage and be friendly and I train m-th !!
> I only quit if I feel the style is lousy or bad instructors . I quit 2 MT gyms in 2018
> 
> I do 2 mma classes
> 2 BJJ classes
> 1 big Muay Thai class
> 
> I am sure I train more than any 44 yr old guy


You really don't.

So all of those gyms are bad and have bad coaches.....nah not buying that


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## Headhunter

quasar44 said:


> If people are combative to me I will iggy them as I don’t come here for negativity


No one is being "combative" this is a discussion page if you don't want a discussion why are you here? Is it for a pat on the back about how great it is how much you traIn? Not going to happen here


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## Tez3

quasar44 said:


> I came here to engage and be friendly and I train m-th !!
> I only quit if I feel the style is lousy or bad instructors . I quit 2 MT gyms in 2018
> 
> I do 2 mma classes
> 2 BJJ classes
> 1 big Muay Thai class
> 
> I am sure I train more than any 44 yr old guy




What is m-th?

By what criteria do you judge a style 'lousy'? It looks like you quit if you find it too hard or aren't instantly good at it. While there are undoubtedly bad gyms around it seems you are extraordinarily unlucky to go to all of them.
Take your boxing training, how do you know your coach was bad at 'tactics', you were only there for 6 months.
You say 'reverse' punches are outdated, a strange word to use, do you actually know how to use a reverse punch or are you judging purely on what *you think* you see? You know reverse punches are used both in MT and MMA as well as boxing right? Do you not consider if you had more patience and training you would have understood more, everyone has to do basics before moving on but you don't stay to learn the basics instead considering it 'rubbish' and looking for the next instant gratification. The fact you consider your opinion to be the final word on styles is an indication of your lack of knowledge.
As for training more than any 44 year old, I very much doubt that.


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## Gerry Seymour

Buka said:


> I've been actively training as a Karate black belt for forty six years....so far. I believe karate needs to be updated as well. The world has changed, life has changed, Karate should change as well.
> 
> Whatta' think of them apples?


I think all MA need updating. Constantly. My issue is with the blanket statements that include hints and/or details that demonstrate a lack of understanding of the topic. It'd be like me saying France needs to update its government. I may be right by accident, but I know next to nothing about that government, so my assertion is based on nothing real.


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## Gerry Seymour

quasar44 said:


> I know your a beginner and its hard to relate to you.. VERY HARD.. Keep at it and you wont be a beginner forever


Why choose to be deliberately insulting?


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## Tez3

Headhunter said:


> No one is being "combative"




I agree, I post more in sadness and frustration than any sense of being combative. It's painful to see someone with little knowledge slating other styles, deciding who is rubbish and what is 'outdated' when he clearly doesn't understand the styles he's criticising.
I don't understand how someone can 'stay too long' in a style, there's always so much more to learn, more ways to test yourself, no one ever learns everything, to think you can is just arrogance.


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## Tez3

gpseymour said:


> I think all MA need updating. Constantly. My issue is with the blanket statements that include hints and/or details that demonstrate a lack of understanding of the topic. It'd be like me saying France needs to update its government. I may be right by accident, but I know next to nothing about that government, so my assertion is based on nothing real.




Most martials arts are constantly evolving though, nothing stands still. the fact that many complain about things being modernised show that, the whine of 'why can't we just do what we've always done' is quite common. If martial arts didn't update we wouldn't have the popularity of MMA for a start. 
Most martial artists do want to challenge themselves ( and their students) so actively look for ways to teach and to experience new things. 
Just saying something needs updating is pointless, as we say in the RAF, don't bring a problem unless you have a solution, what does 'update' mean?
You only have to look at Iain Abernethy for example and many similar exponents of karate to see how they constantly challenge thoughts and techniques, keeping what works and throwing out what doesn't...with explanations. It is however surprising how many 'old' techniques work well provided you understand how to use them. Understanding is the key, always.
In an interesting article from Iain he says '' _To play devil’s advocate for a moment, I’d suggest that the majority of karate practised in this country today is not traditional! My reasoning is that much of today’s karate is not “adhering to a long established procedure” but is in fact only a few decades old.''_
He goes on to say_ "There can be little doubt that karate does not have the same status it did in the past. To the wider martial arts community, Traditional Karate is often viewed as an out-dated relic and a wholly ineffective system. Karate is often criticised for its lack of realism, its lack of close-range techniques, its preoccupation with “looking good”, its omission of ground work, the unrealistic nature of its sparring, the impracticality of its techniques etc. And I have to admit that in many cases these criticisms are justified! *However, it is not ‘Traditional Karate’ that is at fault, but its modern interpretation. The confusing part of all this is that modern karate is often incorrectly labelled as ‘Traditional’! *Just to be clear, it is in no way my intention to belittle modern karate, merely to point out that the modern version of karate is nowhere near as effective in real combat as the karate of old.''
_
So, some points for discussion there alone! From here What is Traditional Karate? | Iain Abernethy


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## Gerry Seymour

Tez3 said:


> Most martials arts are constantly evolving though, nothing stands still. the fact that many complain about things being modernised show that, the whine of 'why can't we just do what we've always done' is quite common. If martial arts didn't update we wouldn't have the popularity of MMA for a start.
> Most martial artists do want to challenge themselves ( and their students) so actively look for ways to teach and to experience new things.
> Just saying something needs updating is pointless, as we say in the RAF, don't bring a problem unless you have a solution, what does 'update' mean?
> You only have to look at Iain Abernethy for example and many similar exponents of karate to see how they constantly challenge thoughts and techniques, keeping what works and throwing out what doesn't...with explanations. It is however surprising how many 'old' techniques work well provided you understand how to use them. Understanding is the key, always.
> In an interesting article from Iain he says '' _To play devil’s advocate for a moment, I’d suggest that the majority of karate practised in this country today is not traditional! My reasoning is that much of today’s karate is not “adhering to a long established procedure” but is in fact only a few decades old.''_
> He goes on to say_ "There can be little doubt that karate does not have the same status it did in the past. To the wider martial arts community, Traditional Karate is often viewed as an out-dated relic and a wholly ineffective system. Karate is often criticised for its lack of realism, its lack of close-range techniques, its preoccupation with “looking good”, its omission of ground work, the unrealistic nature of its sparring, the impracticality of its techniques etc. And I have to admit that in many cases these criticisms are justified! *However, it is not ‘Traditional Karate’ that is at fault, but its modern interpretation. The confusing part of all this is that modern karate is often incorrectly labelled as ‘Traditional’! *Just to be clear, it is in no way my intention to belittle modern karate, merely to point out that the modern version of karate is nowhere near as effective in real combat as the karate of old.''
> _
> So, some points for discussion there alone! From here What is Traditional Karate? | Iain Abernethy


Good point - sometimes what we see as traditional, really isn't. Or at least, it's not as old as we perceive it. I think a lot of Japanese/Okinawan arts had some issues with how they came to the US after WWII, as a lot of GI's with fairly thin experience started teaching suddenly, and just hadn't developed the depth of knowledge they'd have if they'd been training longer. I don't know if the same happened on your side of the pond.

In any case, of course my point was that we all ought to be looking to improve all the time. So, Karate, Aikido, Muay Thai, BJJ, Boxing, etc. all fall into the "need updating" category, because there's always something we can do a bit better. Some styles, some schools, would benefit more than others, because some are already doing that and have been for a long time.


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## Tez3

gpseymour said:


> So, Karate, Aikido, Muay Thai, BJJ, Boxing, etc. all fall into the "need updating" categor




I don't think 'updating' is the correct word, that implies something is obsolete or unable to work because it has worn out. Better words are evolve and advance, I like improve as well, just as we do when we start our training and move on with experience. We must be careful though not to get rid of things just because of 'fashion' or because someone can't be bothered to take time over their training instead wanting instant techniques and results. 
There is a current argument going on in athletic circles about the running shoes that supposedly make runners faster, the recent record breaking marathon time was made wearing these shoes, is this 'updating'/moving with the times or actually cheating? Do we go the same way with martial arts finding 'cheats' to win or is it 'updating'? Do we go the way of some Olympic sports changing the rules to make things spectator/layman friendly or do we take the more difficult route of painstaking training?


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## pdg

gpseymour said:


> Why choose to be deliberately insulting?



It's a fallback position when they have no other recourse...

I have no idea why @Tez3  hit dislike to this question though...


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## Tez3

pdg said:


> I have no idea why @Tez3  hit dislike to this question though...




That's two of us! Have amended though.


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## Gerry Seymour

Tez3 said:


> I don't think 'updating' is the correct word, that implies something is obsolete or unable to work because it has worn out. Better words are evolve and advance, I like improve as well, just as we do when we start our training and move on with experience. We must be careful though not to get rid of things just because of 'fashion' or because someone can't be bothered to take time over their training instead wanting instant techniques and results.
> There is a current argument going on in athletic circles about the running shoes that supposedly make runners faster, the recent record breaking marathon time was made wearing these shoes, is this 'updating'/moving with the times or actually cheating? Do we go the same way with martial arts finding 'cheats' to win or is it 'updating'? Do we go the way of some Olympic sports changing the rules to make things spectator/layman friendly or do we take the more difficult route of painstaking training?


That’s a reasonable distinction. To me, it somewhat - but not precisely - is the same thing. As we learn new things, we update what we do based on that learning. It doesn’t necessarily invalidate the previous practice, even in cases where the new practice proves superior in some ways.


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## Tez3

gpseymour said:


> That’s a reasonable distinction. To me, it somewhat - but not precisely - is the same thing. As we learn new things, we update what we do based on that learning. It doesn’t necessarily invalidate the previous practice, even in cases where the new practice proves superior in some ways.




I'm trying to get away from the word 'update' because previously quasar44 had used it to style bash and we've been mired in his  'thoughts' on styles he considers pointless and useless. 
I hope not too many people are dumping their hard gained expertise and training to pander to those who only want to train for months yet expect the results that years of training bring. It seems that the fad of 'instant gratification' is much to blame along with the unrealistic view that merely watching a video makes you an expert.


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## quasar44

Tez3 said:


> What is m-th?
> 
> By what criteria do you judge a style 'lousy'? It looks like you quit if you find it too hard or aren't instantly good at it. While there are undoubtedly bad gyms around it seems you are extraordinarily unlucky to go to all of them.
> Take your boxing training, how do you know your coach was bad at 'tactics', you were only there for 6 months.
> You say 'reverse' punches are outdated, a strange word to use, do you actually know how to use a reverse punch or are you judging purely on what *you think* you see? You know reverse punches are used both in MT and MMA as well as boxing right? Do you not consider if you had more patience and training you would have understood more, everyone has to do basics before moving on but you don't stay to learn the basics instead considering it 'rubbish' and looking for the next instant gratification. The fact you consider your opinion to be the final word on styles is an indication of your lack of knowledge.
> As for training more than any 44 year old, I very much doubt that.



Nobody does a reverse punch in ufc lol
Training in what ??


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## quasar44

M-Th
Monday -Thurs


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## quasar44

gpseymour said:


> Why choose to be deliberately insulting?



She keeps calling me a beg lol


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## Gerry Seymour

quasar44 said:


> She keeps calling me a beg lol


In some of your training, you are. I've been training 38 years. If I go join a BJJ program, I'm a beginner there.


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## Headhunter

quasar44 said:


> Nobody does a reverse punch in ufc lol
> Training in what ??


Oh wow


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## Tez3

quasar44 said:


> Nobody does a reverse punch in ufc lol
> Training in what ??




You don't know what a reverse punch is do you?

The fact you call it 'UFC' instead of 'MMA' is interesting.



quasar44 said:


> Training in what ??



You are questioning yourself here.




quasar44 said:


> She keeps calling me a beg lol



Mummy make her stop telling the truth or I'll scweam and scweam until I'm sick.


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## Headhunter

quasar44 said:


> She keeps calling me a beg lol


You're in the begginer Mma class and the begginer bjj class (or should be because in your own words you suck)

So yes you are a "beg".....and so what? There's nothing wrong with being a begginer or do you think you're beneath being a begginer


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