# Metsubishi/Shuriken



## Cryozombie (May 30, 2004)

Do any of you train to use any type of "metsubishi" eye blinders to distract/startle your opponent to allow you to escape/close in to execute a techniue? 

Like Pepper Spray, or tossing a handfull of coins at them, etc...?

If so, how do you apply the techniques? 

Similarily do you train with shuriken for those purposes?  I would think that "shuriken" would be strange and impractical in the modern world, but I started thinking about it, and if you had to, you could use CD's, etc, for shuriken in a pinch to disuade an attacker i suppose.  (I was pondering that at work the other day, and took a couple blank CD-roms, and my papercutter, and cut some  shuriken out of them, just because I was bored.  They shatterd as soon as they hit anything, but it was an amusing distraction)  And I couldnt imagine the law looking down on you for having a pocket full of Oragami shuriken either... although it would be debatable if you could disuade an attacker with a paper shuriken... Im starting to ramble, but I look forward to your answers.


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## r.severe (May 30, 2004)

Skills...
It is more or less required to research, train and with time become a expert at these three skills as a shinobi musha... in the Kamiyama Dojo.

Shurikenjutsu (bo, senban, hira)
Metsubishijutsu
Shukojutsu

It would seem very odd not to train in these skills if one was into realistic survival skills with of without martial training.

ralph severe, kamiyama


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## Don Roley (May 31, 2004)

Technopunk said:
			
		

> Similarily do you train with shuriken for those purposes?  I would think that "shuriken" would be strange and impractical in the modern world, but I started thinking about it, and if you had to, you could use CD's, etc, for shuriken in a pinch to disuade an attacker i suppose.



If you learn the essence of shuriken throwing you can apply the skills to numerous thrown weapons. If someone had a gun on you and was talking insanely about how he was going to gun you down, your last, best hope would be to plead with him and offer him the contents of your wallet. Once it is in your hands as he thinkis he is about ready to offer it to you, throw it in his face using semban shuriken skills and dive in with a desperate attack since you have nothing to lose.

And if you ever learn the pistol skills of the Bujinkan, you will note that a lot of them are based on the gross motor skills of shuriken throwing. 

Ironically, because I live in Japan, shuriken are a more realitic weapon for me than pistols. My neighbor had someone break into their house while they were asleep inside last month. You could say it caused a stink. Instead of a pistol, I would probably be chasing the creep down the street tossing shuriken if it happend here.


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## tshadowchaser (May 31, 2004)

How  is the chaseing down and possibly injuring a felon, by throwing a object looked upon in Japan, by the courts(and police)?
 Here in the states you could be convicted of any number of crimes for pursueing and hurting the guy.


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## Don Roley (May 31, 2004)

There is that possibility in Japan as well. But the reality of the matter is that the cops take a little more leeway in how they enforce the law here and if they find an injured felon in the custody of a victim they probably would ignore his injuries and not write it up. Actually, you would be lucky if you commited a robbery and got off without a beating by the police themselves. There is a reason why the crime rate is so low in this country and it has nothing to do with the level of violence on TV or access to firearms.

Of course, in my case, I would never try to chase an intruder after he has left my yard. But I would not go outside to investigate a strange noise without something to help stack the odds in my favor. But you have to admit the image of me chasing an intruder down the street tossing shuriken is an interesting one.


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## Frank Anford (Jun 1, 2004)

Don Roley said:
			
		

> But you have to admit the image of me chasing an intruder down the street tossing shuriken is an interesting one.


sorry but it sounds funny. Unless was a 25lb steel plate fashioned into a shuriken


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## Cryozombie (Jun 2, 2004)

How would "modern" metsubishi be applied?

Obviously, somthing like Mace/Cs/Capsicum Spray... by far the more common and prolific types...

But what else?  What about say, kicking up sand at the beach, or water, if you were in the water... flicking a ciggarette at your oponents eyes...

Any other examples?


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## r.severe (Jun 2, 2004)

Metsubishi..

What I have experienced first hand and not from a book or hear say...


I would say it really depended on the environment you were training in to simulate a conflict.
Take for example.. training in the woods during military-police-etc. you can kick up the duff into the face with your boot-shoe&#8230; or reach down and grab a hand full and throw it.. or even get aerobic, roll and pick up some then throw it into the face..
Unarmed or weaponry training.. Running away from an attacker you can pull a branch back and let it pop into his face..
During stream or water training you can splash water into the face.. as well as sand from the bottom..
During knife or fixed bayonet training you can use a BDU jacket or any jacket in your live hand during knife drills.. popping it into his face..
Using your Swiss seat rope.. or sling rope as a tool to pop at his face as well during knife drills..
Bringing your LBE-LBV out and around your shoulder to throw or pop at him as you use the knife or machete..
Using your cover to throw into his face while avoiding him or attacking him..
Having your knife in hand with sheath.. letting the sheath pop out into his eyes while you hold the handle..
Popping your sweat soaked drive on rag into his face.. sweat popping into his eyes...

The list can go on and on for woodland combat drills training..

But this can be only experienced during that type of environmental training.. not in a dojo where it is dead and not &#8216;real&#8217;&#8230;.

ralph severe, kamiyama


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## Cryozombie (Jun 2, 2004)

r.severe said:
			
		

> Metsubishi..
> 
> What I have experienced first hand and not from a book or hear say...
> 
> ...



Ah, some great ideas... Thanks


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## Elizium (Jun 10, 2004)

By throwing your fingers directly into their eyes in a way to make the attacker blink is metsubushi.  It does not have to be limited to coins or a wallet.  I may guess that Mr. Roley and Mr. Severe have done this type of metsubushi in the past.

Also using a pen in a Bo shuriken throw is also viable.  Those cheap Bic pens are ideal for mestsubushi as well as shuriken (who says it has to injure by penatration when it can deflect attention away?).


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## Flatlander (Jun 10, 2004)

The idea of a cigarette is interesting...I have considered this before.  You get the added benefit of the cerry exploding in his face which, I imagine, would cause a good distraction.


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## Elizium (Jun 10, 2004)

flatlander said:
			
		

> The idea of a cigarette is interesting...I have considered this before. You get the added benefit of the cerry exploding in his face which, I imagine, would cause a good distraction.


By cerry you mean the cigarette.  A cigarette would work better if lit.  

But then you have to think how you got into that situation in the first place to warrant this situation.


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## Cryozombie (Jun 10, 2004)

Elizium said:
			
		

> By cerry you mean the cigarette.  A cigarette would work better if lit.
> 
> But then you have to think how you got into that situation in the first place to warrant this situation.



I think he ment "Cherry" which is the glowing lit end.

I don't quite know what you mean by "think how you got into the situation"... some people are bad people and they attack you, because they dont like you, because they want your money, your woman, your child... it just happens sometimes, otherwise, why would we train?


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## Flatlander (Jun 10, 2004)

Yes, I meant cherry, and typed it badly.  I imagine I would have gotten into this situation by smoking a cigarette, and being attacked.  Seems pretty straightforward.


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## Flatlander (Jun 10, 2004)

Elizium said:
			
		

> By cerry you mean the cigarette. A cigarette would work better if lit.


A cigarette always works better when lit.  That's been my experience.


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## Dale Seago (Jun 10, 2004)

flatlander said:
			
		

> I imagine I would have gotten into this situation by smoking a cigarette, and being attacked.



That would be an entirely credible scenario here in San Francisco, where cigarette smokers are more or less considered to be suicide terrorists carrying and using chemical weapons of mass destruction (second-hand smoke kills, you know).


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## Flatlander (Jun 10, 2004)

Dale Seago said:
			
		

> That would be an entirely credible scenario here in San Francisco, where cigarette smokers are more or less considered to be suicide terrorists carrying and using chemical weapons of mass destruction (second-hand smoke kills, you know).


I know, man.  I'm really going to quit one day.  But now, having considred the defense applications....


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## Elizium (Jun 11, 2004)

Technopunk said:
			
		

> I think he ment "Cherry" which is the glowing lit end.
> 
> I don't quite know what you mean by "think how you got into the situation"... some people are bad people and they attack you, because they dont like you, because they want your money, your woman, your child... it just happens sometimes, otherwise, why would we train?


Well as he said that he typed it wrong I was curious as to what he was really saying.  [Again Elizium jumps the gun].

The situation is how you ended up being there in the first place.  Taking a wrong turn down a road, straying away from the tourist areas... things like that.  Even though crime and the numbnuts that do it are everywhere [paranoia rising], using forthought as to see what may be happening will work just as well to get you out of a possable situation.

It is like asking how many numpties... sorry normal people would walk down a unlit back alley at night in an area they do not know?  Who would?  Not me, for that situation may be more harmful for me.  So looking at the possable situation of the "What if" theory, then getting into the situation of using a weapon is reduced [Unless you want to flip out and do a relultimatepower.net type of thing].

Basic awareness is more better than walking down the road and suddenly thinking "oh s**t, a freak with a gun... err... I know pee me pants and hand over my wallet".


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## Cryozombie (Jun 11, 2004)

Elizium said:
			
		

> Basic awareness is more better than walking down the road and suddenly thinking "oh s**t, a freak with a gun... err... I know pee me pants and hand over my wallet".



Yeah, thats common sense stuff... But "hyperawarness" cannot neccessarily accout for every situation...

Your in a bar.  (Insert sporting event here) is on the TV, you are at a table/booth, looking over the bar at the Tv, and togh guy at the bar says you are looking at his woman.  

"No man, I am watching the game above you" 
"Oh, so my woman isnt good enough to look at" 
"No, man, I didnt say that, but I was just watching the game" 
"Oh, so you are looking at my woman"

There ya go.  Situation.  It just happens that you cannot allways be out of the "line of fire", although I agree with you that by being careful where you are and what you are doing you can lessen the risks.


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## vladmr1313 (Jun 11, 2004)

This has been a pretty informative discussion. I'm really enjoying this forum.

As for my own cigarette experiences when I lived in a bad part of town here in Tampa and I'd walk or bicycle home back from the nightclub district Ybor  I'd carry and puff on a lit cigar. 

Now I used to smoke but I didn't like cigars but my logic was if someone tried to grab me on my way home I could give them a nasty surprise, plus a cigar can be used several times in that respect but a cigarette is usually only good for one poke.


V


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## Flatlander (Jun 11, 2004)

This is the yoke of the one poke smoke folk.


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## MisterMike (Jun 11, 2004)

Don't know if this one has been mentioned, but most people carry keys. 

My set has a nice mini-mag flashlight on them for, um, multiple applications.

And we all got spit in our mouth....


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## sojobow (Jun 12, 2004)

MisterMike said:
			
		

> Don't know if this one has been mentioned, but most people carry keys.
> 
> My set has a nice mini-mag flashlight on them for, um, multiple applications.
> 
> And we all got spit in our mouth....


Try this one.  I was refused entry into the *General Hospital* because I had a fingernail clip on my key ring.  Nothing that comes to a point will be allowed through metal detector checkout points any longer.  But, the fancy pen-and-pencil set I had was ok.  The #2 pencils were ok.  The cell-phone was ok.  The most abundant weapons all passed the checkpoint.   Beats me.????

Learning to use them (via practice) is a must.  I don't see how anyone can be elevated half way through their system without passing a test with these catagories of weapons.  If that screwdriver doesn stick in the wall, no new Kyu for you.

Cigarettes cost 5 bucks a pac.  I ain't throwin em at nobody!!!!! Plus, cigars cost 50 bucks a box.  I'll keep puffin while we rumble!!!!!!


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## Elizium (Jun 12, 2004)

Maybe the nailclippers Sojobow has are not the real danger in the hospital.  MAybe one look and they may decide that a ninja manicure may not be necessary.


But as Technopunk is right, the awareness is not to actually be there.  One case over here happened in a nightclub in the late 80's.  Same thing and it ended up in court.  The magistrate ordered them to act like adults and wear sunglasses so not to look at someone elses "rhubard".

Another good thing is a kubaton.  We did a small bit last night.  We havethis Black American training with us and his kubaton was bigger than mine.  Yeah I know, double entrande time, but he found mine that was more solid metal better to use than his lightweight one.


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## Shogun (Jun 12, 2004)

> "No man, I am watching the game above you"
> "Oh, so my woman isnt good enough to look at"
> "No, man, I didnt say that, but I was just watching the game"
> "Oh, so you are looking at my woman"


Man I hate that! it happens way too often. I wish people like that would get beat up. however, martial artists are better people than that guy. I would've seen the situation coming and ordered warm Sake to throw in his eyes. Osake burns!!


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## Elizium (Jun 13, 2004)

Well you could always turn round and say "Yeah she is nice, but you are better looking" and then wink.  At least it gives them something else to moan about.


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## chidarake (Jun 20, 2004)

Ahh metsubishi there were different types the mixtures were generally carried in a hollowed out egg covered with rice paper some metsubishi's consisted of crushed dry peppers and metal shavings but this mixture could 
very often blind people which unless your a black ninjutsu sect is not always a good thing to do so there was another mixture which consisted of  
salt and a numbing medical solution so the salt could scratch the eyes giving direct passage to the blood stream and would only blind the ...victim
temporarily. theres a little info for you.


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## Don Roley (Jun 20, 2004)

chidarake said:
			
		

> some metsubishi's consisted of crushed dry peppers and metal shavings but this mixture could
> very often blind people which unless your a black ninjutsu sect is not always a good thing to do so there was another mixture which consisted of
> salt and a numbing medical solution so the salt could scratch the eyes giving direct passage to the blood stream and would only blind the ...victim
> temporarily.



Source and cites for this little bit of info about "black ninjutsu sects", etc? I have never heard about what you talk about in any Japanese source. 

Let me guess, your source for this is your head teacher of the Konigun, who has never proven that he had a real teacher, his stuff goes against known historical facts and has served time in prison for some things which _of course_  he was framed for.


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## Elizium (Jun 21, 2004)

Where do all these people come from?  Black ninjitsu Sects? :idunno:


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## Enson (Jun 21, 2004)

thank god i have only had to use metsubishi twice in my life. one time in a training scenario. i went into a roll, grabbed a dried leaf, crushed it and came up to throw it into his face. second was with my nephews this weekend at a family reunion. i'm the young cool uncle so i played "freeze tag" with them and used a bunch of tree blossems to evade getting tagged. hee hee!:ultracool both worked well.


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## chidarake (Jun 21, 2004)

......Mr.Don I will not accuse you of saying any thing wrong because thats your oppinion i was merely giving information on metsubishi from my style of ninjutsu. I could care less what you say about my style which is indeed konigun how ever wether the fact i know or you know he served time in jail gives you no right to look down on him wether the information he gives us is false i could care less i take ninjutsu to learn self defense and to let my warriors spirit grow. as i had said before i was merely giving info so no hard feelings.


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## Don Roley (Jun 22, 2004)

chidarake said:
			
		

> wether the information he gives us is false i could care less



Some of us care very much about false information being spread, just as you just tried to do.

Your source is a convicted felon who has never shown any proof that he has had the slightest bit of training in actual ninjutsu. Wha the says sometimes goes against the known facts. In short, he is just another Frank Dux and you should not be parroting his stuff without checking to see if it yet another lie by him or not.


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