# Doctor says I am Vitamin D deficient...



## Bill Mattocks (Nov 15, 2011)

Got the blood work results back today.  Cholesterol is good (by the way, that seems to shock everyone, I'm told everybody has high cholesterol these days), A1C is OK but not great - 7.0 (back to the gym)! PSA is good, no problems there.  However, he says my Vitamin D should be around 50, and mine is around 13.  Says that's a problem and could contribute to general weakness and sleepiness during the day, muscle pain, etc.  He recommended I start taking 2,000 Units a day of over-the-counter Vitamin D, he'll test my blood again in 3 months.  Anyone ever hear of this?  I actually try to avoid taking supplements of any kind; I just take my Metformin for my diabetes and call it good.  Since my echo-cardiogram came back clean as a whistle last year, I don't even take low-dose aspirin; seems they can't find any hard plaque or stuff clogging up my arteries, so I'm not really at risk for heart attack or stroke from that.  Give me your thoughts, especially if you have to take Vitamin D.  What's the story here?


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## Tez3 (Nov 15, 2011)

I'd always thought if you got enough sunshine or eat properly you wouldn't need extra vitamin D. I have read that children are sometimes at risk in modern times because of the skin cancer scares with parents are lathering them in high factor sunscreen. Dark skinned people in northern European countries need extra vitamin D as well as the darker skin as a sunscreen ( fairly obvious really lol!) we have a lot of immigrants from the very hot African countries who need to take the vitamin. For sunlight read daylight though. I take extra vitamins including D in the winter, my exposure to daylight is limited being a shift worker, I can go to work in the evening, go to bed in the morning, get up and go to work again etc all in the dark, I can not see daylight for three or four days. plus the days are very grey and short when I do see them. I was told by my doctor that as you get older ( sorry Bill) you absorb less vitamins so need a bit of a boost. Still, you're younger than me!


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## Bill Mattocks (Nov 15, 2011)

Tez3 said:


> I'd always thought if you got enough sunshine or eat properly you wouldn't need extra vitamin D.



I have never been a fan of going out in the sun; I have light skin and burn easily, plus I am bald and sunburns on the top of your head hurt a lot.  And I'm told that in northern climes like Michigan, it's not unusual for us to not get enough sunlight anyway.  Dunno.

I just don't know if I like the idea of taking yet another pill.  I'm more or less against taking stuff.  The doctor did recommend this, so I'll give it a shot, but I'm not really a fan of shoving random supplements into my body; I'm convinced that most of that crap is just that; crap.


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## Tez3 (Nov 15, 2011)

Bill Mattocks said:


> I have never been a fan of going out in the sun; I have light skin and burn easily, plus I am bald and sunburns on the top of your head hurt a lot. And I'm told that in northern climes like Michigan, it's not unusual for us to not get enough sunlight anyway. Dunno.
> 
> I just don't know if I like the idea of taking yet another pill. I'm more or less against taking stuff. The doctor did recommend this, so I'll give it a shot, but I'm not really a fan of shoving random supplements into my body; I'm convinced that most of that crap is just that; crap.



I looked on the NHS site and they recommend eating food with the vitamin in rather than supplements as you could take too much. Sounds sensible. 
http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/vitamins-minerals/Pages/Vitamin-D.aspx


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## seasoned (Nov 15, 2011)

1/2 hour in the sun is very good every day. Expose don't burn. 

If you supplement, do vitamin D-3 and K-2 all in one. 1000 IU/45 mcg. 2 times a day.

Although I may look like I'm 75  I swear I feel like I'm in my 50s. I supplement every day plus eat right.


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## cdunn (Nov 15, 2011)

Bill Mattocks said:


> I have never been a fan of going out in the sun; I have light skin and burn easily, plus I am bald and sunburns on the top of your head hurt a lot. And I'm told that in northern climes like Michigan, it's not unusual for us to not get enough sunlight anyway. Dunno.
> 
> I just don't know if I like the idea of taking yet another pill. I'm more or less against taking stuff. The doctor did recommend this, so I'll give it a shot, but I'm not really a fan of shoving random supplements into my body; I'm convinced that most of that crap is just that; crap.



Vitamin D is a pretty involved hormone, the body uses it in quite a few places, and it is possible for your body to come up short if you're not eating enough / getting enough sunlight. 

The pfft of all knowledge says as long as you stay under 4000 IU a day, you're okay. 

Is it crap? Well, there's some evidence it can help with general health, in reasonable amounts; fatigue, bone health, etc. What it won't do is a lot of the crazy altie claims, like cure your diabetes. I'll just pimp this graphic one more time here.


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## Bill Mattocks (Nov 15, 2011)

cdunn said:


> Vitamin D is a pretty involved hormone, the body uses it in quite a few places, and it is possible for your body to come up short if you're not eating enough / getting enough sunlight.
> 
> The pfft of all knowledge says as long as you stay under 4000 IU a day, you're okay.
> 
> Is it crap? Well, there's some evidence it can help with general health, in reasonable amounts; fatigue, bone health, etc. What it won't do is a lot of the crazy altie claims, like cure your diabetes. I'll just pimp this graphic one more time here.



Cool, thanks.


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## Nomad (Nov 15, 2011)

Bill Mattocks said:


> I have never been a fan of going out in the sun; I have light skin and burn easily, plus I am bald and sunburns on the top of your head hurt a lot.  And I'm told that in northern climes like Michigan, it's not unusual for us to not get enough sunlight anyway.  Dunno.
> 
> I just don't know if I like the idea of taking yet another pill.  I'm more or less against taking stuff.  The doctor did recommend this, so I'll give it a shot, but I'm not really a fan of shoving random supplements into my body; I'm convinced that most of that crap is just that; crap.



That definitely gives a solid reason why you're coming up deficient in Vitamin D.  Really only two routes to go; get outside in daylight more often (with a bit more exposed... but not too much, please Bill!), or take the vitamins and see if that corrects the problem.

And most supplements are not crap.  They're very expensive placebos.


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## Dirty Dog (Nov 15, 2011)

Even with the proper diet and outside exposure, the simple reality is that people differ, and that means that you may metabolise Vit-D at a slightly higher rate than others. Your solution is either dietary (supplements or dietary changes - which can be problematic wtih your DM) and/or sunlight.


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## Bill Mattocks (Nov 15, 2011)

Nomad said:


> And most supplements are not crap.  They're very expensive placebos.



I would agree with that, except that I've read too many reports about supplements not having the things in them they say they do, or containing actual heavy metal toxins and other poisons, or that people don't realize that there are some serious issues if you take too much of these things.  Every year, it's a new wonder supplement that everybody swears by, and the following year, a study that shows it shuts down your liver or just doesn't work, or it doesn't even contain what it says it does.  But yes, on top of everything else, placebo effect in spades.

I really don't like the idea of taking any kind of supplements.  However, I'll try the Vitamin D.  Bleh.  As far as getting outside more, not going to happen in Michigan winters.  I'm not really into that.  Skin cancer is not something I'm interested in, and we're beyond white in my family.


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## Carol (Nov 15, 2011)

I dealt with a serious vitamin D deficiency a couple years ago.  A clinical deficiency is bloody awful!!  Depression, brain fog, energy goes away....but the symptoms are so non-specific it is hard to nail down. Nearly cost me my job my concentration got so far out the window....for the first time in my professional life I was given written warnings and a performance improvement plan.  Yes, I ramped back up, regained everyone's trust kept my job, but believe me its nothing I want to repeat.  

It sounds like doc caught yours earlier than mine...which is a good thing. 

The deficiency is slow to occur, and slow to abate.   It felt like mine took forever to go away, even with the 50,000 IU  rx dose.

IMO definitely take the supplements for 90 days, esp. as we are getting to cold weather season and you are less likely to be outside.


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## shesulsa (Nov 15, 2011)

2,000 IU OTC per day is, in my opinion, not enough.  It is very hard to budge Vitamin D levels and severe deficiency cases usually require prescription strength supplementation.  

I did not find out just how serious our Vitamin D deficiency problem is as a species until my son was found to be severely deficient. He took about 50,000 IU per day for about 6 months before his levels came up to within normal range. The hospital where he was diagnosed with the deficiency tested their incoming mental health patients for Vit D deficiency for one year and found that nearly all were severely deficient in Vitamin D and had other health issues previously undiagnosed (issues correlated with the deficiency). After this finding, they tested all coming in to their ER - over 90% were deficient.  They now test everyone and the 90% figure is pretty constant.

Our family doc says it is now assumed by the medical community that virtually everyone is somewhat deficient in Vitamin D - compelling since our milk supply has been fortified for decades. 

Splurge on a good quality Vitamin D product from a whole foods market. If levels don't come up in 3 months, I'd ask for the prescription from your doc.

Please keep us posted on how you're feeling here.


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## Sukerkin (Nov 15, 2011)

Carol's points above eerily gel with what I am going through at present!  I've not got to the stage yet where my boss is getting to the handing out warning stage but I know my performance is well sub-par compared to normal as I seem to be in a permanent state of confusion ... 'brain fog' is exactly the term for it :nods:.  I've been putting it down to the blood pressure meds I'm on but maybe a vitamin deficiency is also putting it's iron in the fire?


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## Bill Mattocks (Nov 15, 2011)

Sukerkin said:


> Carol's points above eerily gel with what I am going through at present!  I've not got to the stage yet where my boss is getting to the handing out warning stage but I know my performance is well sub-par compared to normal as I seem to be in a permanent state of confusion ... 'brain fog' is exactly the term for it :nods:.  I've been putting it down to the blood pressure meds I'm on but maybe a vitamin deficiency is also putting it's iron in the fire?



Have you had your blood work done?  I suppose I'm lucky in a way to have diabetes; I get my blood tested every 3 months.  And since no one can believe I don't have high cholesterol, they keep testing everything, hoping they can put me on cholesterol or high blood pressure meds (which I also don't have, thank goodness).  Best of luck finding out what it might be for you.


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## WC_lun (Nov 15, 2011)

Ironic enough, my nutritionist and I talked about this today.  She said that here in the US most adults are vitiman D deficient. She also said there have been some preliminary results of vitamin D levels being related to risk of cancer. The studies aren't showing now if the vitamin D levels are directly responsible or a side effect yet.  Vitamin D does help with fighting infections and contracting viral sickness.  It seems that part of the problem is the average Americans diet consist of fast or quick to prepare food, which is not helpful for a healthy diet.


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## seasoned (Nov 15, 2011)

http://www.mercola.com/

Go here and do a search on vitamin D. A great place for information on health topics. I know their running an on line business but you don't have to buy, just enjoy all the info.


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## Tez3 (Nov 16, 2011)

Sukerkin said:


> Carol's points above eerily gel with what I am going through at present! I've not got to the stage yet where my boss is getting to the handing out warning stage but I know my performance is well sub-par compared to normal as I seem to be in a permanent state of confusion ... 'brain fog' is exactly the term for it :nods:. I've been putting it down to the blood pressure meds I'm on but maybe a vitamin deficiency is also putting it's iron in the fire?



Definitely get some blood tests done, it could also be a poorly or non working thyroid problem which is what it turned out to be in my case.


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## cdunn (Nov 16, 2011)

seasoned said:


> http://www.mercola.com/
> 
> Go here and do a search on vitamin D. A great place for information on health topics. I know their running an on line business but you don't have to buy, just enjoy all the info.



Mercola has been warned by the FDA for fraudulant medical claims on at least eight products, and has a long, long history of teaching exactly the opposite position of medical consensus and evidence. Take any advice from him at your own risk.


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## Bill Mattocks (Nov 16, 2011)

cdunn said:


> Mercola has been warned by the FDA for fraudulant medical claims on at least eight products, and has a long, long history of teaching exactly the opposite position of medical consensus and evidence. Take any advice from him at your own risk.



I know nothing about any of this; but I did find this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Mercola

I leave interpretation of it to others.


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## Rich Parsons (Nov 16, 2011)

Bill Mattocks said:


> Got the blood work results back today. Cholesterol is good (by the way, that seems to shock everyone, I'm told everybody has high cholesterol these days), A1C is OK but not great - 7.0 (back to the gym)! PSA is good, no problems there. However, he says my Vitamin D should be around 50, and mine is around 13. Says that's a problem and could contribute to general weakness and sleepiness during the day, muscle pain, etc. He recommended I start taking 2,000 Units a day of over-the-counter Vitamin D, he'll test my blood again in 3 months. Anyone ever hear of this? I actually try to avoid taking supplements of any kind; I just take my Metformin for my diabetes and call it good. Since my echo-cardiogram came back clean as a whistle last year, I don't even take low-dose aspirin; seems they can't find any hard plaque or stuff clogging up my arteries, so I'm not really at risk for heart attack or stroke from that. Give me your thoughts, especially if you have to take Vitamin D. What's the story here?



Bill, almost two years ago, I was at 7, and the Doc said I really should be closer to 70. I am on a very high perscription of it (* I have to pay out of pocket as it is a Vitamin  *) but it was 37 the last time I went in. 
Sunlight, Milk, Used to be OJ but I cannot find it anymore, and Swiss Cheese all have Vitamin D. 

Good Luck


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## Carol (Nov 16, 2011)

Sukerkin said:


> Carol's points above eerily gel with what I am going through at present!  I've not got to the stage yet where my boss is getting to the handing out warning stage but I know my performance is well sub-par compared to normal as I seem to be in a permanent state of confusion ... 'brain fog' is exactly the term for it :nods:.  I've been putting it down to the blood pressure meds I'm on but maybe a vitamin deficiency is also putting it's iron in the fire?



Definitely get blood work done, for a few reasons.  A symptom is not the same as a diagnosis.  If it is Vit D or thyroid (or some other things), you have a better chance of learning what the root cause is and how to address it.  If the symptoms are actually from something else...e.g. Rx med reaction, you can explore that as well.

If it is Vitamin D...I don't think treating a clinical deficiency is a DIY process, for a few reasons.  
Even though D is liposoluble, it takes a long time for the body to build up levels.  Good to get a doc's opinion on what dose/frequency is best for your needs.
Some people who bottom out with a severe deficiency may have to resupplement for longer than the usual 3 months. IF this is the case, you need to know that, and so does your doc.
I don't know about UK, but here you can find up to 10,000 IU at a health food store.  I have tried the higher strength OTC vitamins in hopes of saving myself a return trip to the doc and was very unhappy with the results. I had some very strange reactions to some OTC supplements, esp. at higher doses. Some caused a minor spike in my blood pressure, others upset my stomach, etc....issues I don't have on a (usually higher) strength of the Rx vitamin.  I don't think this is the vitamin itself causing the reactions, but the binders and impurities used in the manufacturing process.  OTC vitamins are unregulated here, there can be much more variables in what you get inside the bottle.  Other folks may have different or better experiences, but I don't plan on repeating mine if I can help it 

Good luck and hope you feel better soon!


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## stickarts (Nov 17, 2011)

I have heard of this before. I take a good multi vitamin at breakfast and try to eat a wide variety of foods to get proper nutrition. A bit of sunshine daily is good but all in moderation. Thats good that you are getting checkups and are asking questions. what is your A1c goal?


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## Bill Mattocks (Nov 17, 2011)

stickarts said:


> I have heard of this before. I take a good multi vitamin at breakfast and try to eat a wide variety of foods to get proper nutrition. A bit of sunshine daily is good but all in moderation. Thats good that you are getting checkups and are asking questions. what is your A1c goal?



I don't take a multi-vitamin because I have read too many news stories about studies that show they are expensive placebos that do nothing but cost money, even assuming they have in them what the companies that makes them say is in them.  As a kid, we took "Flintstones" vitamins daily because my mom had been convinced (marketing) that that's what good moms did for their kids.  As far as I know, no one has ever scientifically proven that kids in normal health need any vitamin supplements.  It's just a scam as far as I can tell.

My A1C goal is under 6.  When I was diagnosed with diabetes, it was 13.5 and I was having severe symptoms.  I take two 500mg Metformin daily and with diet and exercise, I got my weight down 50 pounds and my A1C down to 6.0.  Over the past two years, it has crept back to 6.7 and now 7.0.  I am still in the dojo, but I have not been to the gym since my wife moved up to Michigan to join me last year.  I was running about 3 miles a day on the treadmill.  I have also put about 20 pounds back on.  I need to get back to the gym, is all.  I live farther away now, so I have to find some will-power to get it done.


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## shesulsa (Nov 17, 2011)

Deficiency is one of the most prevalent causes of the most common chronic problems. 

Please.  Get thee to a whole foods store and try to get food-based supplements, liquid if possible. Sublingual absorption is da bomb. 

Unless, of course, you prefer reporting to the ER for B12 shots, getting blood transfusions and risking congestive heart failure or arrhythmia problems from electrolyte imbalance.

Most water-soluble food-based vitamins will flush excess through your kidneys with little complaint. Lipid-based supplements are what you need to watch your intake of as you CAN overtax the liver.

Only been taking care of deficient family members for a few decades now and am now addressing my own.  Let's kick it in the ***, Bill!


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## seasoned (Nov 17, 2011)

cdunn said:


> Mercola has been warned by the FDA for fraudulant medical claims on at least eight products, and has a long, long history of teaching exactly the opposite position of medical consensus and evidence. Take any advice from him at your own risk.


http://blogcritics.org/politics/article/big-pharma-and-the-fda-a/ Is this the FDA your talking about............


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## rob (Nov 18, 2011)

If you think vitamin D3 (the 'D3' is important, this one is safer for the body because it doesn't cause any toxicity issues. Although, other forms of Vitamin D aren't sold in most countries anymore, be aware) is interesting, here's a pretty good article regarding health and martial arts. Things you probably never heard of. Enjoy! http://www.wingchunlife.com/Wing_Chun_Life_News-wingchun-training-health.html


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