# Fighting Large Grapplers



## WingChunChick (Jan 15, 2017)

As wing chun practitioners we train a lot to fight people larger than us, however that doesn't seem to apply very well when it comes to people who grapple well. 

What things do you do to prepare for people who are larger and/or better grapplers?


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## takadadojokeith (Jan 15, 2017)

Practice getting off the ground. It'll go there anyway at some point, so it's best to know how to get back in your range.


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## Buka (Jan 15, 2017)

WingChunChick said:


> As wing chun practitioners we train a lot to fight people larger than us, however that doesn't seem to apply very well when it comes to people who grapple well.
> 
> What things do you do to prepare for people who are larger and/or better grapplers?



Being "larger" and being a "better grappler" are two entirely different kettles of fish, especially when discussing an opponent.

Matched against each other, the larger may be cheaper by the pound, but otherwise, all he is is larger.


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## KangTsai (Jan 15, 2017)

Larger/stronger grappler = just scramble harder and stuff just clicks.

Better grappler = you're screwed. Hold out as long as possible.


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## Gerry Seymour (Jan 15, 2017)

WingChunChick said:


> As wing chun practitioners we train a lot to fight people larger than us, however that doesn't seem to apply very well when it comes to people who grapple well.
> 
> What things do you do to prepare for people who are larger and/or better grapplers?


One of my favorite training partners was 5-6" taller than me, and outweighed me by probably 70 lbs. I focused on keeping things out of the strength range. If he brought his weight to bear in standing grappling, I just got under it, went low, and dropped him. If he tried to use strength, it would slow him down, giving me opportunities to work with the rigidity strength provides. On the ground, he had more of an advantage, but I was more skilled, so usually came out on top (literally, when I wasn't just trying to get up).

Size and strength brings advantages, but grappling techniques are designed to take advantage of weight shifts and such as openings. More weight shifted means more advantage for some techniques used against them. The risk is when they are equal skill, because they may know which techniques are best suited for you to use against them, and can effectively block most of them. Even then, though, it's possible to do well against larger people.


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## KPM (Jan 15, 2017)

I'm not sure if this will come through or not since it is not a youtube video.  But here is one guy's take on facing larger opponents.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/wingchunforum/search/?query=larger opponent


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## Gerry Seymour (Jan 15, 2017)

KPM said:


> I'm not sure if this will come through or not since it is not a youtube video.  But here is one guy's take on facing larger opponents.
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/groups/wingchunforum/search/?query=larger opponent


That is apparently only viewable by members of the group - the link simply takes me to the "join group".


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## KPM (Jan 15, 2017)

gpseymour said:


> That is apparently only viewable by members of the group - the link simply takes me to the "join group".



Oh well.  Like I said, it wasn't a youtube video so I have no other to try and share it.


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## Gerry Seymour (Jan 15, 2017)

KPM said:


> Oh well.  Like I said, it wasn't a youtube video so I have no other to try and share it.


You tried. You get an "A" for participation today.


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## JP3 (Jan 15, 2017)

gpseymour said:


> You tried. You get an "A" for participation today.



Ack! The dreaded Participation Trophy.

Nobody's really answered WingChunChick's question, y'all. Lots of "Just don't be there" type stuff, which I find funny, but I bet she doesn't.

She asked, "What things do you do to prepare for people who are larger and/or better grapplers?" 

In a nutshell, my answer is "practice grappling."

   Expanded upon, find a grappling school and go train for a few months (it does take about that long to get a feel for it).  But, since your underlying art is WingChun, even though your going to take class and pay attention and try to learn and practice what they are teaching you, when not on their mat, consider what you are learning and how best to integrate that into your own personal system to be able to escape the grappler, evade and get back up and force him/her to have to come inside on your WingChun whirlwind of "now-warned and very motivated" strikes.

If really attacked, and not trying to play the game of grappling, e.g. rules based matches, tournaments, MMA bouts, etc... your goal should NOT be "Fight to Win," but "Fight to Survive."  Winning in grappling involves trying to get the other person to submit to you, which, maybe I'm reading into this, but doesn't sound like your motivation. It's to Not be caught in something which could hurt you, or worse. Thus, fight to survive.

Of course,.... you may end up coming over to the Dark Side and hanging out with us weird-o converted strikers now grapplers too, and that's OK.


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## Hazardi172 (Jan 15, 2017)

WingChunChick said:


> As wing chun practitioners we train a lot to fight people larger than us, however that doesn't seem to apply very well when it comes to people who grapple well.
> 
> What things do you do to prepare for people who are larger and/or better grapplers?



As a female it makes sense to learn Brazilian jiu jitsu- nothing else will give you the kind of advantage that system can give over an unaware male attacker. It is a very counter intuitive way of fighting and gives you options from the kind of bad positions you are likely to end up in if you are attacked for real. 

Other than that would recommend joining a real boxing or muay thai gym and getting in some light to medium sparring rounds with men so that you learn what it feels like to be hit and how difficult it is to hit back and cause damage. 

Hope that helps


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## geezer (Jan 15, 2017)

KPM said:


> I'm not sure if this will come through or not since it is not a youtube video.  But here is one guy's take on facing larger opponents.
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/groups/wingchunforum/search/?query=larger opponent



Don't know why, 'cause I'm pretty dumb about tech, but it worked for me just fine for me. It was a good demo and really illustrates the difference between a self-defense or _unplanned_ fight situation as compared to a competitive bout like MMA. In the unplanned fight, tha little guy can use the element of surprise and pre-emption to get an edge. You can appear vulnerable and then "boom" explode inside, nail some really vulnerable targets, and possibly tilt the scales to "win" --i.e. hurt the other guy and get away.

In s competitive or planned fight, the other guy pretty much knows what's coming and you can't fool him like that. So the good "big'un" should beat the good "little'un" ....and usually does.


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## wingchun100 (Jan 15, 2017)

I tried sharing the video on my FB profile:

Steve Grogan | Facebook


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## Gerry Seymour (Jan 15, 2017)

wingchun100 said:


> I tried sharing the video on my FB profile:
> 
> Steve Grogan | Facebook


Thanks for posting that out there, Steve, I could watch it there. Good fundamentals for dealing with a larger guy.


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## wingchun100 (Jan 15, 2017)

WingChunChick said:


> As wing chun practitioners we train a lot to fight people larger than us, however that doesn't seem to apply very well when it comes to people who grapple well.
> 
> What things do you do to prepare for people who are larger and/or better grapplers?



Larger: close the gap and dominate.

Better grappler: you need to stay on your feet.


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## wingchun100 (Jan 15, 2017)

Geezer mentioned explosive energy. This is not directly related, but I give you Emin Boztepe:


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## Buka (Jan 16, 2017)

And I shall give him right back to you.


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## drop bear (Jan 16, 2017)

wingchun100 said:


> Larger: close the gap and dominate.
> 
> Better grappler: you need to stay on your feet.



Well yeah. It is true. But not exactly helpful.


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## Juany118 (Jan 16, 2017)

WingChunChick said:


> As wing chun practitioners we train a lot to fight people larger than us, however that doesn't seem to apply very well when it comes to people who grapple well.
> 
> What things do you do to prepare for people who are larger and/or better grapplers?



When it comes to good grappling size isn't that huge of an issue.  As such, and I raised this in the "outside game" thread, learning grappling is the best path.  If for some reason you don't have the time or inclination to do so I can only think of one thing.  Find a grappler who is willing to spar with you on a regular basis and with them practice and work out what works best to keep them outside of their "sweet spot" until you create an opportunity to escape the situation entirely.


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## drop bear (Jan 16, 2017)

in general you try to stay out of their way. And they will try to pressure you and take you down.

Or in other words. Connor Mcgregor vs Nate Diaz.


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## wingchun100 (Jan 16, 2017)

Juany118 said:


> When it comes to good grappling size isn't that huge of an issue.  As such, and I raised this in the "outside game" thread, learning grappling is the best path.  If for some reason you don't have the time or inclination to do so I can only think of one thing.  Find a grappler who is willing to spar with you on a regular basis and with them practice and work out what works best to keep them outside of their "sweet spot" until you create an opportunity to escape the situation entirely.



Oh no, you said the dreaded "S.S." phrase again! LOL


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## drop bear (Jan 16, 2017)

Juany118 said:


> When it comes to good grappling size isn't that huge of an issue.  As such, and I raised this in the "outside game" thread, learning grappling is the best path.  If for some reason you don't have the time or inclination to do so I can only think of one thing.  Find a grappler who is willing to spar with you on a regular basis and with them practice and work out what works best to keep them outside of their "sweet spot" until you create an opportunity to escape the situation entirely.



sise kind of is. You just see a lot of novices get toweled up by experts. If they are anywhere near the same level it is a different game.

If they dont have a gi it is a different game.

And if they can punch it is a different game.

If you wanted to short cut your wrestling to be supplemental to a striking game. You would focus on takedown defence. Standing back up off the ground. And good positional grappling. That combined with good striking will handle most submission attempts.

Untill it doesnt of course.


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## Red Sun (Jan 17, 2017)

I don't think i'd stand a chance against a big/strong grappler in a normal fight (...and i'm not a fast runner.)
If i got the chance, i'd try my luck and bullrush him with punches - I've had a ~1-in-3 success rate 'just closing in' on guys who could probably throw me out the door with one hand in the ring. -shrugs-

(PS: I'm not a WC gal. Grain of salt!)


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## Cephalopod (Jan 18, 2017)

WingChunChick said:


> As wing chun practitioners we train a lot to fight people larger than us, however that doesn't seem to apply very well when it comes to people who grapple well.
> 
> What things do you do to prepare for people who are larger and/or better grapplers?



Part of the problem here is revealed in your other post about a sparring partner grabbing your wrists and shoving you around.

The problem is the tension in your arms and shoulders.
If someone grabs your wrists they may (momentarily) have control over your wrists but you should not give them control over the rest of you. If your shoulders are tight, your rigid arms will be levers with which your opponent can pry your body off balance and then push you around with them. At the other extreme, if your arms are floppy loose, there's nothing stopping your opponent from letting go of your wrists and striking.

Your SLT and chisao should develop a flexible tension that oozes forward like an inflating balloon. When your opponent grabs your wrist don't overreact, she'll be waiting for that. Your forward tension (coupled with a good root) will make it hard for her to disengage without creating an opening for you to strike. If she shoves or pulls, use that movement to initiate whatever technique you use to break the grip.

Now with regard to grapplers...
I believe from a woman's self defense standpoint, your should be less concerned with someone shooting for a double leg takedown as you might see in the ring, and more concerned with someone grabbing your arms or upper body to take you down.
Now the same principle applies. They need to get a meaningful purchase on you...stiff arms would be giving your assailant exactly what he needs.

Its just an idea which underlies any technique you choose to use in practice against those you want to grapple you.
I hope you find it reflects what your sifu has been teaching. Good luck in your training!


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