# Best Oc Spray/foam/gel ?



## Primal Kuen (Oct 18, 2007)

I was wondering if anyone has any knowledge on this stuff. 

 A few questions : what does the % mean ? most are between 2% and 17%.  

  I'm wondering if the foam/gel works aswell as the spray...?

 I wan't to get some for my wife, but my main concern is it flying back into her face. she has asthma...   So maybe the gel or foam, but for some reason the % is low on these and the SHU is always in the low end aswell with these.  That's why I was wondering about the % etc.... does it really matter ?


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## Drac (Oct 18, 2007)

Personally I avoid the foam..Interviewed a bus driver who they attempted to rob my dousing her with the foam OC..She managed to scoop a handful of the stuff from her neck and fling it back on her attackers..They fled..


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## still learning (Oct 18, 2007)

Hello, From doing a little research....foam sprays are design for in doors, like inside of a house, or apartments, inside prisons, or enclosed areas.

The idea is to coat the face of human or animal with the foam/gel spray, may  have dyes too.  To stick or cover with a thick layer....

The OC sprays NON-foam thans to desperised in the air and cover a larger area.

Higher the numbers the more pepper ingredants it seems....All that are prodluce on the market...no matter the numbers should do the work for self protection.

Also the come is some many sizes and styles of containers...you will need to check what type of buttons or triggers you want to use?

Smaller one's are easy to carry...but less holding power....IN a real situtions...the more the better...You do not want to run out of "ammo"...

In Hawaii....it is outlaw for private individuals to have them...All the police in Hawaii carrys them.

 A friend in LA...has the one for BEARS...big canisters...when he goes hiking in the bear areas!

There is NO law against carryiing RAW peppers in your pockets......keep some and smash them on your tips of the fingers for eyes raking.....the real "hot ones".......don't sit too close to us OK!

Aloha (it does get "hot" here too!)................especially the Hawaiian Volcanos.........


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## Primal Kuen (Oct 19, 2007)

Well, I live in Texas...so it's pretty much leagal to tote around a cannon if you want. Especially with the new laws. Unfortunately, my wife hates guns. 

 I think it's stupid to restrict self defense items like pepper spray in some states. God knows the criminals out there will have whatever they want...then what are you supposed to do ?  

 I know that oc is illegal in the UK, but they have alternative defense sprays...perhaps those are legal in Hawaii also ?


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## Carol (Oct 19, 2007)

Hi Primal, 

You may want to consider a tactical flashlight, such as a Surefire, for your wife...if she is most concerned about being approached after sundown.   A tactical light can have a bit of stopping power, without the pulmonary 
concerns of an aerosol can.  Plus...unlike OC spray...they can be pretty darn handy to have in the dark, even for non-defensive purposes.


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## jks9199 (Oct 19, 2007)

Carol Kaur said:


> Hi Primal,
> 
> You may want to consider a tactical flashlight, such as a Surefire, for your wife...if she is most concerned about being approached after sundown.   A tactical light can have a bit of stopping power, without the pulmonary
> concerns of an aerosol can.  Plus...unlike OC spray...they can be pretty darn handy to have in the dark, even for non-defensive purposes.


There's a flashlight on the market that contains an OC spray... It'd be worth looking at.

However, OC is NOT a particularly effective or reliable defensive tool.  It tends to work best on people, like cops, who are trying to use it on people who are drunk, high, or just pissed off.  It's not an incapacitant; it's a pain source.  It's a great tool in certain circumstances... but it's nowhere near a magic wand.  If you do decide to buy one, make sure that the design will prevent accidental discharge while also being able to identify front from rear without looking.

The percentage is the amount of capsicum in the spray; more important than the percentage is the Scoville rating.  That's a measure of how "hot" it is.

OC has been discussed in numerous threads here; I'd suggest looking them up.  

And -- I'd strongly suggest looking at the civilian Taser; it IS a reliable incapacitant (assuming a good two probe hit).  The hard part will be finding somewhere to get the training required to activate it.


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## Primal Kuen (Oct 19, 2007)

I see. Well I do have a M-18 taser , but it is pretty bulky, too bulky for her purse anyway...   I did see some new looking tasers the other day. you say you have to get them activated ? For them to function...or for registration ?


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## punisher73 (Oct 19, 2007)

The main ingrediant in OC is actually a food additive, it's the same stuff they put into your taco sauce at taco bell.  That is why so many departments use it, it is a "natural" substance and not a chemical spray like mace.

The difference in pepper spray percentages is how much "sauce' they put into it vs. the carrier solution.  2% would have 2% of the "pepper" in it.  

As far as tactical options, ASP makes a kubotan keychain that sprays pepper, there is a flashlight that has it. Also, there are sprays that have a dye in them to mark the offender to make easier id.

A couple of things to consider though, check to make sure that it is not an alchohol based solution, which could become flammable if you do deploy a taser, and second. CHECK YOUR LOCAL LAWS!!  In Michigan, for example, where I work civilians can only carry 2% spray and anything higher is considered illegal.  As a side note, once the spray has been dispersed there is no way to tell the percentage.

If you go the way of the Taser and buy a civilian model be aware that in 7 states, it is illegal to possess the civilian model ( DC, HI, MA, MI, NJ, NY, RI, and WI).  That info comes from the taser training manual (5/06) so it may have changed in the last year.


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## jks9199 (Oct 19, 2007)

The newest civilian Taser is the Taser C2; it's my understanding that Taser will not give the release code until they get documentation that you've received training in it's use.  It's designed basically as deploy & run...  Where the X26 that cops use gives a 5 second ride, the C2 runs for 30 seconds.  The idea is that you hit the ogre, and run for help while he's immobilized. 

As to legality...  I leave that up to the person.  50 states, plus everyone else on MT...  No way to cover that, especially when it's so variable with local laws, as well.


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## still learning (Oct 19, 2007)

Primal Kuen said:


> Well, I live in Texas...so it's pretty much leagal to tote around a cannon if you want. Especially with the new laws. Unfortunately, my wife hates guns.
> 
> I think it's stupid to restrict self defense items like pepper spray in some states. God knows the criminals out there will have whatever they want...then what are you supposed to do?
> 
> ...


 
IF any one can use pepper sprays?...than the bads guys can get them and use them too.....against the police? ..or anyone...that is why Hawaii does not allow pepper sprays to be sold in Hawaii.....(yes we know if you or the bad guys want a pepper spray...there are ways to get them..)

Hairsprays, Bug sprays, and suntan sprays...are All legal in Hawaii......
OOOPS...Lysol also...Aloha


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## Kreth (Oct 19, 2007)

still learning said:


> IF any one can use pepper sprays?...than the bads guys can get them and use them too.....against the police? ..or anyone...that is why Hawaii does not allow pepper sprays to be sold in Hawaii.....(yes we know if you or the bad guys want a pepper spray...there are ways to get them..)


So you're just handicapping the law-abiding citizen.


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## Primal Kuen (Oct 19, 2007)

Those new Tasers are almost 400.00 ! wow, thats more than the m-18 taser I bought , which like the police model I can deploy 5 sec bursts repeatedly.  The difference in the new one is "shaped charge" ... supposed to be slightly more effective I guess....   

  But that one time use sucks....you could easily miss with one probe. With the M-18 you can just throw another "clip" in...multiple use....and it's cheaper. I don't get it.  Maybe they don't sell the M-18 anynore ?


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## Andy Moynihan (Oct 19, 2007)

The only reason I carry pepper spray is so I have a nonlethal alternative to drawing the forty-five.

(Read: So that after I use the spray and it fails miserably, it looks better in  court to show I exhausted all nonlethal means before I tried to continue to escape, he continued to pursue and forced me to shoot him).


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## Batleth (Oct 21, 2007)

Primal,

As an ER Nurse and Paramedic I can tell you that if your wife has asthma stay away from any kind of incapicating spray that's currently on the market. Those chemicals, including capsicum and conventional mace play hell with anyone who has some kind of reactive airway disease. Even a small "whiff" that probably wouldn't bother you or me could cause your wife's asthma to react. 
I agree the previous poster who mentioned the tactical flashlight. Then there's always the Spyderco Delica, I picked up one for my wife years ago that was a purty pink and evy thang.


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## still learning (Oct 21, 2007)

Kreth said:


> So you're just handicapping the law-abiding citizen.


 
Hello, It is our Hawaii Law makers...that decide this along with the police departments.

Many Hawaii citizens wish we could be legal to carry and use them!   Even those electric shock guns too!  It is our local government that makes them illegal to carry or buy!

In Hawaii to carry a conceal gun permits....are very, very hard to get over here....yet it is easy to buy guns, but  not allow to carry them is the problem part.

Aloha,


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## Primal Kuen (Oct 25, 2007)

still learning said:


> Hello, It is our Hawaii Law makers...that decide this along with the police departments.
> 
> Many Hawaii citizens wish we could be legal to carry and use them! Even those electric shock guns too! It is our local government that makes them illegal to carry or buy!
> 
> ...


 
  The "lawmakers" are not independant of the citezens....since you guys are voting them in for their term. From what I understand Hawaii is not all that safe... with a huge drug problem , ie ice etc. 
  We as citezens of the united states have a right to bare arms... let alone freakin pepper spray. 
   However...the government will do whatever the ppl allow them to do. In Texas...we do'nt stand for those rights to be taken away. Simply put, they will represent what the citizens want, or they will not get votes.

   Remember...."FOR THE PEOPLE, BY THE PEOPLE"  ( not for the government, by the government..)


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## Kreth (Oct 25, 2007)

Primal Kuen said:


> We as citezens of the united states have a right to bare arms...


I'm pretty sure there's nothing in the Constitution about our right to wear tank tops...


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## MarkBarlow (Oct 25, 2007)

I'm not a LEO but I do teach DT and the feedback I get is that the gel or foam tends to harm the officers as much or more than the person being apprehended.  Spray does a better job of staying where you put it but foams and gels splatter and spread.  Of course, in close quarters, any OC tends to cause collateral damage.


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## Primal Kuen (Oct 25, 2007)

Kreth said:


> I'm pretty sure there's nothing in the Constitution about our right to wear tank tops...


 
  Er..um, Bear. Damn public schools !


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## Blotan Hunka (Oct 25, 2007)

A 30 second ride on the civ taser? YOW!!


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## Drac (Oct 25, 2007)

MarkBarlow said:


> I'm not a LEO but I do teach DT and the feedback I get is that the gel or foam tends to harm the officers as much or more than the person being apprehended. Spray does a better job of staying where you put it but foams and gels splatter and spread. Of course, in close quarters, any OC tends to cause collateral damage.


 
Yep...Not to mention in the heat of the moment the number of officer that have pulled their OC spray and wound up blasting themselved full in the face..


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## jks9199 (Oct 25, 2007)

Blotan Hunka said:


> A 30 second ride on the civ taser? YOW!!


Yep...  5 was bad enough.

But 30 gives someone time to get away and get help.  And, somehow, I bet you ain't standing up right after a 30 second ride, ready to go.  Even if they ave dropped the pulses to 12 a second (if I recall correctly!) from the 19/sec of the X26.

But 30 seconds also means that if you point a civilian taser at me, you're getting shot!  Because I'm damn sure that I won't be able to do anything during that 30 seconds.


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