# Style Change



## theletch1 (Apr 23, 2003)

I am giving serious consideration to leaving the school that I am currently in.  The style is kenpo.  I truly love my style but, for various reasons, may have to leave that school.  There are and abundance of TKD schools in the area as well as a few karate and jujutsu schools.  There is only one Aikido school in the area but I seem to gravitate towards it for some reason.  If I make this change how big a change will I be looking at in style?  Are there any comparable techniques, how do they differ?  Any assistance you can give will be greatly appreciated.


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## arnisador (Apr 23, 2003)

I'm not an expert in either art but I suspect you'll find Aikido rather different. You'll certainly find it interesting but I doubt you'll find it at all similar. Why not check out several of the schools?

I did Aikido briefly after Karate and it was educational and of course my prior training helped--esp. in breakfalls--but it was quite different.


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## chaosomega (Apr 23, 2003)

I know very little, but here it is;

Aikido is a very soft martial art, as it used little to no striking. You keep a safe distance and attempt to bring your opponent down by locking joints, throwing, etc... I think. Someone will correct if I'm wrong, I'm sure of it.

Good luck.


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## Aikikitty (Apr 23, 2003)

> _Originally posted by chaosomega _
> *I know very little, but here it is;
> 
> Aikido is a very soft martial art, as it used little to no striking. You keep a safe distance and attempt to bring your opponent down by locking joints, throwing, etc... I think. Someone will correct if I'm wrong, I'm sure of it.
> ...



Well, there are different styles of Aikido--both soft styles and hard styles with some in-between.  You're right about the joint locks, throws, etc. but we do have some strikes (atemi) that we use sometimes (to mainly use as a distraction and gain another second or two of time to do the technique) but we don't (at least in my dojo) practice kicks, punches, or blocks.  The other thing incorrect is none of the Aikido I've ever done (or at least TRIED to do) in my dojo or seen at any seminar is ever done from a "safe distance".   I've been told many times that Aikido is an "up close and smell 'em type of art" and I have to agree!  (I get rather self concious sometimes about whether I recently washed my gi or not! )  If we were too far away then the other guy could kick us and we wouldn't be able to reach them to do the techniques.  I'm always being told to get in closer, move off line (so I'm not in front of the guy and can get hit), get the person off balance, etc.....

I should say that I do NOT know or understand everything there is to know about Aikido (I might never be able to understand it all) and what I've said above is from what I've seen and experienced in just the 2 1/2 years of practicing Aikido and going to a couple of seminars.  :asian:  

Oh yeah, I can't answer theletch1's question because I have never seen Kenpo before and don't know enough about it to make any comments.  

Robyn   :asian:


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## Field Cricket (Apr 24, 2003)

> _Originally posted by The Opal Dragon _
> *...but we don't (at least in my dojo) practice kicks, punches, or blocks.*



I think I understand what you mean here: there is no explicit drilling of these techniques. However, as uke (the victim ) various strikes are used, and in some dojos kicks. Blocks are used all the time, but, as flow is such an important part of Aikido, they aren't as clear cut as in other arts.



> *The other thing incorrect is none of the Aikido I've ever done (or at least TRIED to do) in my dojo or seen at any seminar is ever done from a "safe distance".   I've been told many times that Aikido is an "up close and smell 'em type of art" and I have to agree!*



Most definitely. One of the difficult things, especially if you've done something like karate where there can be a block-counter mentality, is moving in on your opponent as he attacks so that you can use his own force against him.

FC


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## Yari (Apr 24, 2003)

> _Originally posted by theletch1 _
> *I am giving serious consideration to leaving the school that I am currently in.  ....  There is only one Aikido school in the area but I seem to gravitate towards it for some reason.  *



Give it a try and see how you feel about it. I would think it very different than kempo, but I dont know kempo that well.

Then come back and give us a review of what you tried. I love to hear it, and also which school of Aikido it is.

/Yari


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## Aikikitty (Apr 24, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Field Cricket _
> *I think I understand what you mean here: there is no explicit drilling of these techniques. However, as uke (the victim ) various strikes are used, and in some dojos kicks. Blocks are used all the time, but, as flow is such an important part of Aikido, they aren't as clear cut as in other arts.
> FC *



Oh yeah, I forgot about uke strikes!  I was mostly thinking about punching and kicking as nage!  We probably have blocks too but I never really noticed because we're told that we're not supposed to just stand there--keep moving! keep moving!    Thanks Field Cricket! :asian: 

Robyn :asian:


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## Field Cricket (Apr 24, 2003)

> _Originally posted by The Opal Dragon _
> *Oh yeah, I forgot about uke strikes!  I was mostly thinking about punching and kicking as nage!  We probably have blocks too but I never really noticed because we're told that we're not supposed to just stand there--keep moving! keep moving! *



An example that springs to mind is shomen uchi ikkyo: the way I was taught it, as you step in you raise one arm to cover your head and grab the attacker's wrist. The technique of the arm raise is precisely that of age uke (as taught in karate) but without the hand closed in a fist. This includes twisting your wrist.

You may not notice this as a block for two reasons: first of all the intention is not to stop the attack dead in its tracks but to guide it in a more 'convenient' direction; the second is that once you have really got the move sussed there's almost no block and you are focusing on the wrist grab.

That's how I see it anyway. I'm not an expert on Aikido by any stretch of the imagination! 

FC


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## Aikikitty (Apr 24, 2003)

Cool!  

Robyn :asian:


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## theletch1 (Apr 25, 2003)

The style of Aikido is Nihon Goshin.  I finally got the chance to talk to the instructor on the phone last night.  The styles are quite different but they still have some similarities to what I am doing now.  The big bonus to making the change is the introduction of budo to the training.  That's the big reason I'm leaving the school I'm at now.  I'd go to another kenpo school if there were one available in the area that had a more stable environment for training but I'm out of luck there.  I've always been into philosophy and the spiritual side of MA so I think that this will be a good change for me.  I will go to his dojo on monday to watch a session and go again on wednesday to join in with a session.  I'll keep you all posted on how it goes and thanks for the input.


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## Yari (Apr 26, 2003)

> _Originally posted by theletch1 _
> *  I'll keep you all posted on how it goes and thanks for the input. *




I'm looking forward to hearing about it. I know that Old_sempai(martialtalk name) pratices this style. You could also PM him if you had any questions!

/Yari


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## theletch1 (Apr 29, 2003)

I sat in on the class on monday night.  I am very impressed with the way the class is run, the techniques taught and the discipline of the students.  I saw similarities to my kenpo training that should help my transition.  I'm going back on wednesday night to take part in the class.



> I'm looking forward to hearing about it. I know that Old_sempai(martialtalk name) pratices this style. You could also PM him if you had any questions



Thanks for that info.  Old_Sempai has proven to be a wealth of knowledge.


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## don bohrer (Apr 29, 2003)

Just a little about my  limited experience in Aikido. I took it for a very short time. Class started with lot's of stretching, falls and basic rolls. We normally worked 4-6 techniques hands on with a partner during class. I found each class had a common theme.

Aikido is a cooperative art. The spirit of cooperation is such that both must practice correctly. No dummying up to make the technique work. The (Nage?) needs proper feed back to know he has keep his center and if his technique is working. You as the (Uke?) must apply your breakfalls and rolls to escape being hurt and to test what you've learned. You will also position your body to protect your joints and the rest of you. I found there to be an Aikido way for everything. 

Aikido is a great art, but some will voice how unrealistic looking this defensive art is. I would just add that it's an art that runs deep in concepts and takes a greater time to be proficient. Also keep in mind that your learning how to be both (Nage and Uke). You will indead find Atemi (striking) in Aikido. Just not as indepth that your probably used to. 

Hope that was of some help.


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## theletch1 (May 1, 2003)

I did class on wednesday night.  I loved it.  The instructor went through some of the basics to intriduce me to class, falls and rolls a couple of techniques and theory.  The teaching style impressed me.  He even stopped at one point in the training to illustrate a theory behind a technique on a dry erase board.  My kenpo training helped a good deal to ease me into the class.  My classmates seem to be very attentive and disciplined. I'll be going back on monday to join up and do the paperwork.

Here's a bit of a curiosity for ya though.  In my kenpo class my favorite training partner was a cop named Chris... the first guy I met in the Aikido class was a cop named Chris.  Think maybe I am supposed to be in the class  :shrug:


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## Yari (May 5, 2003)

> _Originally posted by theletch1 _
> *
> 
> Here's a bit of a curiosity for ya though.  In my kenpo class my favorite training partner was a cop named Chris... the first guy I met in the Aikido class was a cop named Chris.  Think maybe I am supposed to be in the class  :shrug: *



It's all in the matrix......



/Yari


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## arnisador (May 6, 2003)

Glad to hear you're enjoying it!

Does the system you study do any weapons training?


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## Touch Of Death (May 6, 2003)

:soapbox: forget aikido man
  do your self a favor and go with the jiujitsu.


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## Yari (May 7, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Touch'O'Death _
> *:soapbox: forget aikido man
> do your self a favor and go with the jiujitsu. *



Why dont you explain why?


/YAri


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## theletch1 (May 7, 2003)

I'm all for hearing what jiujitsu has to offer and we do have a jiujitsu school in our area, however, I am truly enjoying the Aikido training thus far and was searching for an art more along the spiritual line to begin with so I doubt that I would even consider changing.  I studied kenpo for two years and really hated to leave it.  I am just not one to change horses in mid-stream if I can help it.  Thanks for the suggestion though.

As to the question of weapons training, I have seen tanto, bokken, tonfa, escrima and guns in the dojo.  I believe the students are taught to use them as a precursor to defending against them.  The only weapon on the list I didn't train with in my kenpo training much was the bokken.  I really enjoyed the weapons training in kenpo and am looking forward to any other training I can get with them.


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## theletch1 (May 8, 2003)

Oh yeah, and jo and bo staff as well.  But I think that the jo at least is pretty well universal with aikido.  Did another class last night and did the paper work to make it official.  I love this stuff


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## Yari (May 9, 2003)

So what's your first technique?


/Yari


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## theletch1 (May 9, 2003)

The first one I got to work was called "Jacket grab".  We did the same basic type of wrist lock in kenpo as a defense for a two hand grab to the front but Aikido adds a control to the opponents elbow (bending the joint) and a lot more attention to detail on the hand that makes the lock so much more effective.  I don't know if this is just a difference in instructors or styles but once I figured out the details I got a tap out of uke a lot faster than I ever did in kenpo.  The school that I attend doesn't use a lot of the japanese names for the techniques (Sensei said that it tends to hender english only folks when learning).  If I have one complaint at all about the school that would be it.  I'll be looking on the internet for the japanese names as I learn the techniques.
The main detail that I've picked up so far that makes a lot of difference is control of the thumb when doing a hand grab instead of just the fingers and back of the hand.  I never realized that having the thumb free could give the hand that much more mobility.  I'll keep ya'll posted as I progress.

Yari, thanks for the interest you are showing.  I noticed on your profile that you hold a shodan in aikido.  What style do you study?
How is it different from Nihon Goshin?  How long have you studied it?


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## Aikikitty (May 9, 2003)

I'm really glad you've been enjoying Aikido, letch!   Anything else you post about your future classes and what you're learning, I'll be interested to read. 

Robyn :asian:


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## Touch Of Death (May 10, 2003)

:asian: Yari,
      I'm glad you asked that question. If you look at the Web of Knowledge you will find that position comes before Targets(by which I mean to deal with missle attacks) Jiujitsu helps a student master somthing that should in fact be a base. Aikido plays on a higher level of the web of Knowlege; it almost assumes a mastery of the previous levels. It is said that Aikido is an art reliant on a strong base in a previous art.


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## theletch1 (May 10, 2003)

> It is said that Aikido is an art reliant on a strong base in a previous art.



Well, then, I should (and seem to be) fitting right in as I have a strong base in kenpo already. 
The basics are drilled into kenpo practitioners from day one until the end and the NGA school that I attend works basic falls and rolls during the warm-up every class.  I continue to train in kenpo with a couple of friends that attended the school with me so my base in that art will continue to be re-inforced.


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## Yari (May 11, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Touch'O'Death _
> *:asian: Yari,
> Aikido plays on a higher level of the web of Knowlege; it almost assumes a mastery of the previous levels.  *



I would agree with you 60 %.

Mastery in another art will excell you rart and aikido much faster, and easier. But it's not nessecary. 

But I would take it into consideration when deciding on what art to do.

/Yari


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## Yari (May 11, 2003)

> _Originally posted by theletch1 _
> *  I'll keep ya'll posted as I progress.
> 
> Yari, thanks for the interest you are showing.  I noticed on your profile that you hold a shodan in aikido.  What style do you study?
> How is it different from Nihon Goshin?  How long have you studied it? *



Yes keep posting, I'd love to hear about your progress.

I've studied Kubiyashi, Kanesuka and now Nishio-sensei style. When talking about aikido it is commen to referr to the name of the teacher. But there are Aikido styles that dont referr to a teacher, like Nihon Goshin. I dont know Nihon Goshin, but from what I've heard it sounds pretty good.

/Yari


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## Touch Of Death (May 13, 2003)

Yari,
common I know you have a 75% in you. I can feel it
 sean


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## Yari (May 13, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Touch'O'Death _
> *Yari,
> common I know you have a 75% in you. I can feel it
> sean *




I will not comment on that  :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: 

/Yari


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## theletch1 (May 13, 2003)

http://nihongoshinaikido.com/history.htm 

Here is a link to a page on the history of nihon goshin.  I hope it will help familiarize you with the style as I am still too new to even attempt it.  I've seen stated in several places that NGA is a stand alone style of aikido and not a derivitive of the aikido created by O' Sensei.  If this is truly the case then we should have a lot of fun comparing and contrasting the two.

Last night I took advantage of the fact that there are two one hour classes on monday and wednesday night and took part in both of them before heading off to work.  The best part is that te second class only had six students in it so I got plenty of one on one with Sensei McGraw to try to better grasp the techniques that I had worked on during the first class.  We did 1)first wrist technique, 2) front wrist throw, 3) jacket grab, 4) arm bar.  I can not believe the attention to detail in this style.  First wrist technique just doesn't want to work if everything isn't done just right.  I love it!  We ran a round robin style of self defense drill last night.  When my turn to be center man came round I goofed up and went strait into a kenpo tech with out thinking what I was doing.  I guess it will take a while to reprogram my brain to work on two seperate levels of MA.  Class again on wednesday night


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