# How the Internet is Changing Your Brain



## Xue Sheng (Dec 13, 2016)

How the Internet is Changing Your Brain - Academic Earth


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## Flying Crane (Dec 13, 2016)

Does not surprise me at all.


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## JowGaWolf (Dec 13, 2016)

I probably remember more about what I look up since I'm usually looking up stuff that I actually need to accomplish things or learn things.  Most of my internet searches are because I'm trying to learn something.  This statement "college students remembered less information when they knew they could easily access it later on the computer" doesn't fit me and didn't fit me when I was going into college.   I think older people who were around before the Internet have a stronger bond to offline life than the younger generations.  Some people live their life online, while others use the Internet to help them do something offline.

This quote below is definitely not me.
"We’re relying on Google to store knowledge long-term, instead of our own brains."

"Neuroimaging of frequent Internet users shows twice as much activity in the short term memory as sporadic users during online tasks"  I wonder if what they are seeing is use filtering tons of information that has no meaning to us.  For example, I can tell you what I've searched for during the last 2 weeks, but I couldn't tell you what other stuff I read that wasn't related to what I needed.


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## Buka (Dec 14, 2016)

Sounds like Martial Training can help the youth of the world even more than I thought.


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## Ademadis (Dec 14, 2016)

"in a recent study it was found that college students remembered less if they thought they could outsource it later".

Well... yeah?
I do a history degree, 90% of it is research and outsourcing so I'm gonna be using google and the library a LOT.
I don't feel that when researching I have a predisposition to forget what I've learned, nor do I believe memorising facts over discussion and analytical focus is the most efficient use of my study time anyway.


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## KangTsai (Dec 16, 2016)

Heck yes it is.
  I have become more open-minded to the point of indifference to anything of subjectivity (whether political, ethical, or moral), largely basing my thinking on consistency, which is one thing the Internet 'conditioned' me into by exposing me to so much garbage as well as useful information, to effectively desensitise me socially.
The Internet has initially worsened, and then skyrocketed my health. Up until — forever, I was a fat, weak child with little talent in anything, with significant time spent on the Internet. Then I discovered martial arts, the UFC, MMA classes, fitness, gum memberships etc. Now I look like an Icelandic strongman compared to most in my classes at my boys' school.
Just some among the many things the Internet has done to me.

It's not a bad thing at heart. Depends how you choose to use it.


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## Gerry Seymour (Dec 16, 2016)

JowGaWolf said:


> I probably remember more about what I look up since I'm usually looking up stuff that I actually need to accomplish things or learn things.  Most of my internet searches are because I'm trying to learn something.  This statement "college students remembered less information when they knew they could easily access it later on the computer" doesn't fit me and didn't fit me when I was going into college.   I think older people who were around before the Internet have a stronger bond to offline life than the younger generations.  Some people live their life online, while others use the Internet to help them do something offline.
> 
> This quote below is definitely not me.
> "We’re relying on Google to store knowledge long-term, instead of our own brains."
> ...


I would definitely like to see some follow-up studies. It looks like this report (like almost all reports outside of Journals) draws a conclusion from too little evidence.

I suspect there is a cognitive effect, even to those of us who didn't grow up on it (like the effect GPS has on us, a well validated and well understood effect, in that case). But I also suspect you are right that there's a more profound effect upon those who never had to rely upon their memories. We form cognitive habits, especially as our brains mature (there's a "pruning" that happens in adolescence, if I recall correctly), and the ability to look information up on your phone must almost certainly have a dramatic effect on those cognitive habits during developmental stages.


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## Gerry Seymour (Dec 16, 2016)

Ademadis said:


> "in a recent study it was found that college students remembered less if they thought they could outsource it later".
> 
> Well... yeah?
> I do a history degree, 90% of it is research and outsourcing so I'm gonna be using google and the library a LOT.
> I don't feel that when researching I have a predisposition to forget what I've learned, nor do I believe memorising facts over discussion and analytical focus is the most efficient use of my study time anyway.


That's not a true alternative. It's not "memorizing facts" OR "discussion and analysis". It should be both. Having an analytical discussion is much more effective if parties involved know a large amount of information (yes, including specific facts) around the subject. The question (not the firm conclusion implied in that article) is whether the always-available information on the Internet has caused a shift in cognitive habits, reducing the amount of information we store. If it's inconsequential information that's no longer being stored, the change in habits might be useful. If it's useful information (for instance, a history major who doesn't know the key sequences of events, names of key figures; or a psychology major who doesn't know the names of cognitive processes, types of reward/punishment and their schedules, etc.), then it's a bad thing. Without those key facts, those students can't carry on a deep analytical discussion across their topic without stopping to look things up constantly. That reduces the effectiveness of that discussion.


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## Gerry Seymour (Dec 16, 2016)

Xue Sheng said:


> How the Internet is Changing Your Brain - Academic Earth


If this turns out to be an actual effect on long-term retention of useful information, there would be even bigger implications beyond the Internet. That would imply that audiobooks are probably better for retention of facts than paper books (harder to go back and look up a fact). It would also imply that a borrowed book from the library may induce better retention than a purchased book (again, harder to go back and look up a fact). It would likely mean a dependence upon physical textbooks is preferable to PDFs, since the latter can be easily kept and retrieved, even on a smartphone, while the former will often go away (in grade school, given back to the school - in college, often sold back at the end of the semester).


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## Xue Sheng (Dec 16, 2016)

gpseymour said:


> If this turns out to be an actual effect on long-term retention of useful information, there would be even bigger implications beyond the Internet. That would imply that audiobooks are probably better for retention of facts than paper books (harder to go back and look up a fact). It would also imply that a borrowed book from the library may induce better retention than a purchased book (again, harder to go back and look up a fact). It would likely mean a dependence upon physical textbooks is preferable to PDFs, since the latter can be easily kept and retrieved, even on a smartphone, while the former will often go away (in grade school, given back to the school - in college, often sold back at the end of the semester).



I once had a professor in college saw that wisdom was not so much what you know, but knowing where to find what you want to know


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## Gerry Seymour (Dec 16, 2016)

Xue Sheng said:


> I once had a professor in college saw that wisdom was not so much what you know, but knowing where to find what you want to know


That is a component, but expertise requires a base of internal knowledge. As an extreme example, I don't want my physician having to look up the structure of the arm. I want him conversant with the structure and how it works, so he can decide where the likely places are to look for answers to the pain. If he has to start by getting out Gray's Anatomy (or doing the equivalent Internet search) to find out where the muscles and bones are, it will take an exhausting amount of work for him to even start the diagnosis.

From a martial arts perspective, I could easily look up the names of the 50 Classical Techniques in NGA. I have them in 3 books I've purchase and one I started to write. They are in all 3 versions of my notebooks, as well as in the formal curriculum listing for Shojin-ryu (stored in 3 places). Multiple websites have them listed. But I still need to know them, so I can answer questions from students and discuss the principles with other instructors.

Knowing where to look is important for the information you don't have in your head. Having a solid base of information in your head is important to expertise in any area. Heck, that base is how we know where to look (again, for an extreme example, imagine that physician not knowing the term for "forearm", and having to find that term before he could search for muscles in that area).

EDIT: Looking back at this, it's clear that my torn muscle hurts today.


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## Xue Sheng (Dec 16, 2016)

gpseymour said:


> That is a component, but expertise requires a base of internal knowledge. As an extreme example, I don't want my physician having to look up the structure of the arm. I want him conversant with the structure and how it works, so he can decide where the likely places are to look for answers to the pain. If he has to start by getting out Gray's Anatomy (or doing the equivalent Internet search) to find out where the muscles and bones are, it will take an exhausting amount of work for him to even start the diagnosis.
> 
> From a martial arts perspective, I could easily look up the names of the 50 Classical Techniques in NGA. I have them in 3 books I've purchase and one I started to write. They are in all 3 versions of my notebooks, as well as in the formal curriculum listing for Shojin-ryu (stored in 3 places). Multiple websites have them listed. But I still need to know them, so I can answer questions from students and discuss the principles with other instructors.
> 
> ...



Agreed, but from his perspective you are talking about knowledge. He also separated Knowledge and wisdom, anyone can gain knowledge through study but I believe his point was to go beyond that you need to know where to look and that is what he was calling wisdom.


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## Gerry Seymour (Dec 16, 2016)

Xue Sheng said:


> Agreed, but from his perspective you are talking about knowledge. He also separated Knowledge and wisdom, anyone can gain knowledge through study but I believe his point was to go beyond that you need to know where to look and that is what he was calling wisdom.


Definitely agreed. Knowledge is necessary for wisdom, but is far from sufficient.


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