# samurai arnis



## Hanzo04 (Aug 18, 2004)

by any chance, has anyone one here ever heard of samurai arnis? if no one responds to this thread i'll have my answer.


----------



## Datu Tim Hartman (Aug 18, 2004)

???


----------



## haumana2000 (Aug 18, 2004)

nope, in fact as a filipino I think it would be deemed a slap in the face to have something that we are now learning to treasure as a cultural item be credited with those who sought to occupy our homeland. Especially since arnis was used against the samurai blade (Though it was later than the feudal period) in WW2.  Just my thoughts,  thats like me asking about  jewish bratwurst :CTF: !


----------



## Dan Anderson (Aug 18, 2004)

Samurai Arnis???  That's an odd one.  Who uses that name?

Yours,
Dan Anderson


----------



## bart (Aug 18, 2004)

haumana2000 said:
			
		

> nope, in fact as a filipino I think it would be deemed a slap in the face to have something that we are now learning to treasure as a cultural item be credited with those who sought to occupy our homeland. Especially since arnis was used against the samurai blade (Though it was later than the feudal period) in WW2.  Just my thoughts,  thats like me asking about  jewish bratwurst :CTF: !



I don't know about that. Filipinos coined the term "combat judo" and use English and Spanish words all the time in Arnis names. I don't think it's a slap in the face. It sounds a little hokey and "made up", but not insulting.


----------



## Rob Broad (Aug 18, 2004)

I am thinking that thsi might just be the name of a school teachng some variation of Arnis.


----------



## DoxN4cer (Aug 19, 2004)

bart said:
			
		

> I don't know about that. Filipinos coined the term "combat judo" and use English and Spanish words all the time in Arnis names. I don't think it's a slap in the face. It sounds a little hokey and "made up", but not insulting.



It's more than a little hokey.  It makes my BS meter redline. 

It reminds me of the time I showed an ATA TKD guy some stick work and caught him teaching the same stuff as part of his ATA curriculum a month later. He even had the nuts call it Korean Arnis.  What a jack-***!  That episode was fun... "Korean Arnis?"  THWACK!!!  "Never heard of it."  CRACK!!! CLICK, CLICK, CRACK!!! "Where did you learn that?"  THWACK, THWACK!!! (THUD)  

From that point on, he stuck to teaching spin kicks and reverse punches.

r/

Tim Kashino


----------



## arnisandyz (Aug 19, 2004)

bart said:
			
		

> I don't know about that. Filipinos coined the term "combat judo" and use English and Spanish words all the time in Arnis names. I don't think it's a slap in the face. It sounds a little hokey and "made up", but not insulting.



For all we know it could have been developed by some Filipino WWII vet who was an Arnis player that fought against samurai blade and picked up some techniques from fighting against them. But it does sound made up! Not really different from "American Kenpo" or "Brazilian Gujitsu" if you ask me.


----------



## Datu Tim Hartman (Aug 19, 2004)

arnisandyz said:
			
		

> "Brazilian Gujitsu"



Agreed :asian:


----------



## Emptyglass (Aug 19, 2004)

arnisandyz said:
			
		

> For all we know it could have been developed by some Filipino WWII vet who was an Arnis player that fought against samurai blade and picked up some techniques from fighting against them. But it does sound made up! Not really different from "American Kenpo" or "Brazilian Gujitsu" if you ask me.



I have seen some Japanese swordsmanship which has some very good concepts and ideas which could be applied to the Filipino style of bladework very nicely. The name is a bit odd but personally I find the idea of combining concepts from Japanese and Filipino swordsmanship very interesting.

Rich Curren


----------



## loki09789 (Aug 19, 2004)

Where or how did this term come from and who is using it?

The problem I have is more with the naming than with the idea of blending arts from different backgrounds.

This "Samurai Arnis" is very different from calling something "Kenpo/Karate" or "Arnis/Silat" to give credit to source arts that are being blended.  Rich C made a good point about how tactical and practical arts will blend and borrow from other sources and that different blade traditions can find common ground in movement.

The ignorance I see is that Samurai isn't a term for any particular system of martial arts but an ancient class of Japanese Aristocratic culture. They covered a very long time in Japanese History and changed drastically from their original manifestation to the 'modern' Samurai that were dubbed so during WWII. 

This sounds like the uneducated/pop culture understanding and 'respect' for the both cultures.

Unless the school is teaching horsemanship, spear fighting, Archery, Sword, Empty hand/Grappling, Flower arranging, poetry, Japanese Dance, singing, tea ceremony, calligraphy, philosophy ..... along with the complexities of Filipino Arnis systems and culture, it isn't doing the terms or cultures justice.


----------



## arnisandyz (Aug 19, 2004)

Question the the post-starter...Did you come across somebody teaching this or was it a general question out of the blue?

hmmmm,  Ninja-Kali?...Sumo-Eskrima?


----------



## arnisandyz (Aug 19, 2004)

hmmmm,  Ninja-Kali?...Sumo-Eskrima?[/QUOTE]

Ninjali!


----------



## bart (Aug 19, 2004)

> This sounds like the uneducated/pop culture understanding and respect for the both cultures...
> Unless the school is teaching horsemanship, spear fighting, Archery,
> 
> Sword, Empty hand/Grappling, Flower arranging, poetry, Japanese
> ...



I see your point, but also, "samurai" in Philippine languages is often not referring to the person, but rather to that type of weapon, the katana. Since this is all conjecture anyway, the person who originated "Samurai Arnis" might be specializing in the use of that particular weapon.

The Philippines is a crossroads with influences out of many various parts of the world. There's another system out their called Excalibur Arnis, that has little or nothing to do with King Arthur. Doce Pares is named after the 12 paired brethren of Charlemagne, the medieval Frankish king. Chances are there is no direct link between us Doce Pares people and the sword work of the medieval Frankish knights. I don't think the English or French are too up in arms about those names. 

Names can mean a lot or they can just be  very simple ends to a mean. Chances are this is just an odd name that someone chose for personal reasons, well informed or not.


----------



## mcjon77 (Aug 19, 2004)

arnisandyz said:
			
		

> hmmmm, Ninja-Kali?...Sumo-Eskrima?


Ninjali![/QUOTE] 
You mean Ninja-Kali isn't legitimate?  Guess I shouldn't have signed that 10 year contract at their school. :idunno: 
Jon


----------



## Hanzo04 (Aug 19, 2004)

I got this idea from "Kyoshi Dexter M. Brown, 6th degree black belt RyuKyu Kempo Karate, 5th degree black belt Goju Karate, 5th degree black belt Ninjitsu, 5th degree black belt Aiki-jujutsu, 1st degree black belt Samurai arnis and ve-jitsu arnis." on    http://www.amazon.com/gp/cdp/member-reviews/A3F42NY3KA1LZS/ref=cm_cr_auth/104-3353432-5899946

roll down the screen untill you see the dexter m. brown review. i had to exploit him. lol!


----------



## Datu Tim Hartman (Aug 20, 2004)

Hanzo04 said:
			
		

> I got this idea from "Kyoshi Dexter M. Brown, 6th degree black belt RyuKyu Kempo Karate, 5th degree black belt Goju Karate, 5th degree black belt Ninjitsu, 5th degree black belt Aiki-jujutsu, 1st degree black belt Samurai arnis and ve-jitsu arnis." on    http://www.amazon.com/gp/cdp/member-reviews/A3F42NY3KA1LZS/ref=cm_cr_auth/104-3353432-5899946
> 
> roll down the screen untill you see the dexter m. brown review. i had to exploit him. lol!




Sounds like a interesting person.
 :bs: :iws:


----------



## DoxN4cer (Aug 20, 2004)

Datu Puti said:
			
		

> Sounds like a interesting person.
> :bs: :iws:



Couldn't have said it any better myself.

Tim Kashino


----------



## loki09789 (Aug 20, 2004)

Hanzo04 said:
			
		

> I got this idea from "Kyoshi Dexter M. Brown, 6th degree black belt RyuKyu Kempo Karate, 5th degree black belt Goju Karate, 5th degree black belt Ninjitsu, 5th degree black belt Aiki-jujutsu, 1st degree black belt Samurai arnis and ve-jitsu arnis." on http://www.amazon.com/gp/cdp/member-reviews/A3F42NY3KA1LZS/ref=cm_cr_auth/104-3353432-5899946
> 
> roll down the screen untill you see the dexter m. brown review. i had to exploit him. lol!


Yup!  He seems to be 'strong' in his Japanese/Okinawan Heritage if he has this kind of pedigree and yet still wants to impose a non existent link between the Peasant/non aristocratic arts of the Japanes and Okinawan common folk (Kempo/Karate arts) and the Samurai class because of "image" or lack of understanding.

I find it really funny that someone who is ranked in a Ninjutsu system would want to have anything to do with a "Samurai" term.  I am 1/2 Okinawan and when I see this kind of ignorance in termanology and understanding as absolutely inconsistent with the idea that they are 'learning about a culture' through martial arts....obviously he hasn't learned much of the culture if he is:

1.  Using "Samurai" instead of a system name to explain a blend.
2.  Being culturally insensitive to the originators for the majority of his martial arts training.
3.  Being a fantasticist by trying to appropriate a title/term that has nothing to do with his training heritage.

He might be a kick *** martial artist on the floor, a sound practitioner and instructor, but he really doesn't know his artistic histories OR is more concerned with market than with respect.


----------

