# Tactics against the flamingo sparrer



## the_kicking_fiend (Dec 29, 2002)

Hi,

I just wanted some input from people about tactics about how to spar someone who uses flamingo style heavily.  What I mean by flamingo is standing on one leg and having the other leg constantly chambered in usually a sidekick ready position or kind of half way inbetween a front kick and a sidekick position.

your fiendly fiend,
D


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## TLH3rdDan (Dec 29, 2002)

as in tournament or just no rules at all???? have to take too different approaches lol.....


tournament... just rush him and try to jam his kick with one of your own or side step it and nail him with a reverse punch to the gut.

non-tournament... try moving in and doing a low spinning sweep when he goes for the kick or maybe even a scissor sweep... or you could side step the kick and catch his leg and drag thru into the splits lol... just some ideas hope they get ya thinking


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## Hollywood1340 (Dec 29, 2002)

I agree. At an open tourney one never does that, your groin is too exposed and mobility limited. A body was designed to rest on two feet, on one his mobility and balance are limited. Use that in your favor.


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## the_kicking_fiend (Dec 29, 2002)

I agree that is a tactic I don't favour using either, but as for the suggestion for jamming the leg or checking it, that just leaves a tussle of two legs, doesn't really give a nice clean solution.

The gut hit idea was interesting but on one foot you spin round just as fast as someone running around in a sidestep motion.

The sweep is definately a sound solution, but for sparring it's not permitted generally.  No-one in their right mind would go into a street fight on one leg!  You'd just tackle them or something!

I'm talking more specifically against someone who is very flexible and sitting their on one leg waiting for you to come at them to they hit you with a midsection sidekick or high turning kick or some other kick snap kick...

your friendly fiend,
D


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## TLH3rdDan (Dec 29, 2002)

ok say the guy is on one leg you move in he throws the mid level side kick you parry and side step he should be moving forward and away from you if he is using any power in the kick at all and your parry should also help in redirecting him... this should leave you enough time to land the reverse punch to the gut of the chest or at least put you inside of him to where it counters his kicking ability and puts him at a disadvantage... the other idea would be on the same principle wait for the kick and move to the inside and hook the leg with your arm trapping it and eliminating it from the equation... at this point you can pummel him with your other hand or simply sweep him to the ground... there are more options though...


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## white belt (Dec 29, 2002)

I have two favorites.   First is stay in a closed stance (if he is left forward then you are the same and vice versa) and slide step either direction slightly off his center line.  As soon as the side step is initiated, launch a spin heel kick to the chest or head.  If he is on his back leg, he will have a very hard time avoiding you.  He will also have to deal with having his lead leg/favorite weapon "slipped" like a boxer's jab with superior reach experiences against a shorter slugger who moves inside at a slight angle.  If you hit his guard, he now has to fight for balance as you follow up with a roundhouse, punch or any other follow up that makes good common sense.  It is a good gap closer for the taller or shorter man in TKD.

Second one I like comes from an "open" stance.  When the front leg fighter balances on his back leg, slide step into his blind side at a 45 degree angle and unleash a rear leg roundhouse either to the body or head followed by a spin side kick to his side/ribs.  If you are shorter, this is an excellent way of closing the gap, sidestepping his lead leg and hand, stepping away from his rear/power side and he now must scramble to regain his proper alignment and/or distance.  His stance is crossed up.  You of course stay glued to him until you deliver your flurry.  I call this slipping in the backdoor.  A fast, tall, front leg kicker is best approached at a slight angle around his front leg.

If he comes to you, if you are able, stay just outside his reach and see if he puts his weight on his front leg appreciably, when moving forward.  If so, time a straight entry toward his front leg with a front leg attack of your own when he puts weight on his front leg.  He can't kick with the front leg if he has his weight shifted upon it.  This gives the opponent an illusion of superior speed, on your part, if he does not understand what you are doing to him.  He just knows you are getting off the blocks first and he can't draw his favorite weapon quick enough.  I call this "reeling in" as in fishing.  Frustration on his part causes him to change his tactics sometimes and he now must fight your game.

Go get 'em,
white belt


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## the_kicking_fiend (Dec 30, 2002)

Excellent reply and advise white belt.  Thanks.  You show real insight into the art and I can see your very committed. :samurai:

I especially liked the closed stance idea myself, I use a similar technique of sidestepping and doing a reverse heel kick in one motion which I called the 'chris cross' since a friend called chris showed it me!  It's a one of my favourites because I'm particular powerful and able with that attack.

your friendly fiend,
D


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## fissure (Jan 3, 2003)

If your fighting under WTF rules, back kick the hell out of his riased leg. Your kick will land on his hamstring or groin, but thats his problem. Kicking a leg that is in itself raised to kick is considered insidental.Again if you land a groin shot while your opponents leg is in the air, this is usually treated in the same manner.
Whit belt, we call an "open stance" the situation were both players chests face the same direction - is this the same for you?


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## jfarnsworth (Jan 3, 2003)

I would say low line spin sweeps, and the scissors takedown should work fine. If your in close enough to execute the techniques.


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## Chronuss (Jan 3, 2003)

the guy likes flamingo...hmm...let's see...the leg is chambered so it can launch any kick...leg above plane of belt...AHA!  the leg's a legal target if it's above the belt.  when he launches a kick, just don't block/parry, STRIKE IT!  make it so he doesn't wanna use it again.  also, try some feint moves.  if his leg is chambered, and just like everyone else has said in the thread, he won't have much mobility.  throw a front-leg front kick towards groin/chest and as he goes to block it or dodge, immediately change it into a round kick to the head or hook kick, works for me.     if you go for the front/hook feint, after the hook kick, go for a round kick after making contact with the hook.  also, try a stomach/chest level side kick and as your leg extends change it into a hook.


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## white belt (Jan 3, 2003)

Fissure,

The definition of an "open" stance I use would be when the two fighters chests are pointing toward the same side of the room.  Example; fighter "A" has his left foot forward.  Fighter "B" has his right foot forward.  Sorry if I was not clear earlier.

white belt


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## fissure (Jan 4, 2003)

> the guy likes flamingo...hmm...let's see...the leg is chambered so it can launch any kick...leg above plane of belt...AHA! the leg's a legal target if it's above the belt.


I should file a suite for plagiarism!:EG:

jfarnsworth, I got the impression the_kicking_fiend was refering to sport TKD (from his second post), your gunna get him DQed!


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## jfarnsworth (Jan 4, 2003)

> _Originally posted by fissure _
> *jfarnsworth, I got the impression the_kicking_fiend was refering to sport TKD (from his second post), your gunna get him DQed! *



He He, You know I got disqualified at almost every danm tournament I was in. I even fought full contact and got penalized for an illegal move.  Oh well, take my advice and use it on the street where it would more save your butt. 
Fissure, I guess I didn't read it throughly enough before I posted. It was last night after my wife was yelling at me anyway.:shrug:


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## fissure (Jan 4, 2003)

I only pray that if I get into another street fight, the dumb *** comes at me hopping on one leg!:EG:


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## jfarnsworth (Jan 4, 2003)

:rofl: :rofl:  Good lord, now that was a funny mental picture. 

But seriously maybe an axe kick can slide in from the side their leg is up. After the attacker regains balance then go for the body slam and the hollywood hogan leg drop. Well maybe not the leg drop as that will hurt the **** when falling on concrete. Go for the Jimmy Snuka off of the park bench or something. :rofl:


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## Cain (Jan 4, 2003)

First of all I am just stating wat I would do, this does not necessarrily mean that I am telling u wat to do ok? Different techniques are different for diff ppl

Tournament - 

Puch heavily in the torso and sweep his legs

Real fight  - 

Make a junge for his leg and possible hold it in a submission.......

|Cain|


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## fissure (Jan 4, 2003)

> After the attacker regains balance then go for the body slam and the hollywood hogan leg drop. Well maybe not the leg drop as that will hurt the **** when falling on concrete. Go for the Jimmy Snuka off of the park bench or something.



I can only assume that you, much like everyone else in Ohio, are delirious with glee from last nights game!


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## jfarnsworth (Jan 4, 2003)

Here in the sticks we take excitement however it comes our way.  By the way that was an awesome game full of surprises and weird events during the game.


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## fissure (Jan 4, 2003)

You know you all will never hear the end of that pass interference call in the first over time! It was one hell of a game!


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## Chronuss (Jan 4, 2003)

> _Originally posted by fissure _
> *I should file a suite for plagiarism*



my bad...didn't see that you had said that...hehe.


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## jfarnsworth (Jan 4, 2003)

> _Originally posted by fissure _
> *You know you all will never hear the end of that pass interference call in the first over time! It was one hell of a game! *



Unfortunately I couldn't stay up and watch the whole game. I seen most of it while I was staying up practicing my kenpo tech. and such. Regardless I couldn't keep up with the whole thing. Wish I would have though.


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## white dragon (Jan 6, 2003)

At my first tournament someone did this to me, I was a white belt and he was a green tag and I'd never come across this style before, I tried rushing and got kicked, I tried coming in with my leg chambered and he did a jump spin back kick. After about 30 seconds of this (which feels like a HELL of a long time on the mat) I got pissed off and just axe kicked his knee as hard as I could. I got a point knocked off, and he had had trouble kicking with his leg so I went on to beat the crap out of....

... what? Were you expecting me to have some moral attached to this story or something?


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## jfarnsworth (Jan 6, 2003)

Hey! whatever works for you.


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## white dragon (Jan 6, 2003)

I should maybe point out that I don't condone cheating, both in sparring and in general, and I did it out of frustration rather than hoping to knack the guys leg so he could kick. As it happens that was just a happy consequence.


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## white belt (Jan 6, 2003)

White Dragon,

There IS a moral to your story!  If your favorite kicking leg gets injured in competition or the street, you better know how to use your other leg in relative skillfull fashion.  You proved what can happen if you do not.  Good post!

white belt


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## white dragon (Jan 7, 2003)

Ofcourse, I knew that, I was justtesting you all to see if you could follow my hidden words of wisdom  *cough*


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## MichiganTKD (Mar 23, 2004)

I have fought guys like this and I have two words: sliding sidekick.

 I defy anyone to stand on one leg with their knee raised and try to withstand the momentum of a fullbore sliding sidekick without getting knocked on their keister. I've seen guys get knocked back 20 feet with it. Especially if they use the crane stance in response to a roundhouse kick, hoping your instep will hit their knee. I like to fake a roundhouse, make them raise their knee to block, then go immediately into a sliding sidekick. Very entertaining watching them fly across the room!
 Also works great against people who try to do two or more kicks with the same leg without setting it down (and you know who you are!).


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## deadhand31 (Mar 23, 2004)

There's a good way to get past it, and stop the idiot from doing it again, but you'll risk getting a warning. With his knee up, do a skip-in axe kick, targeting that leg. When his leg goes out, yours will come down on it, if you did it fast enough. Doing so will bring his upper body down, putting his face in good range for a switch-round. Like I said, this will get you a warning, but if you have one warning, might as well use it. Also, this counter will make it less likely for him to do it again, and will possibly fluster him too. 

If there's one thing I really hate, it's flamingo sparrers.


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## ThuNder_FoOt (Mar 23, 2004)

Hmm... flamingo style?

I would have to say the best choice is to sidestep it, and then return a round kick, or an axe kick with an additional follow-up. If you try to attack his leg, you could end up injuring yourself. I've seen it happen too many times where the guy trying to attack the leg ends up connecting with the other guys knee or elbow. SO my choice wouuld be to avoid the weapon by sidestepping. You can move in at 45 degree angle, then kick. Executing it on 2 separate beats. Or you can do the same thing simultaneously, executing all on one beat. Its like a 45 degree shuffle to move in, with a 45 degree round kick, to the trunk or the head. I personally favor doing the same motion with a lead roundkick followed by a rear round kick (in closed stance). If its in open stance you just switch the roles. Execute the first attack with you rear leg using the sidestep, and double up or follow-up with your lead. The sidestepping of the sidekick(most common) flamingo attack, buys you time to get creative once you get on the inside.

If you are taller than your opponent, you could also use the flamingo stance right back on him. Just kick over or around his leg, and your reach will score for you. Then you follow up with a few of your own. Its usually hard for an attack to get in, because this is where you excercise your reach. In this I say use the flamingo like a jab. Double or sometimes triple it up till you make contact, then follow up with a back kick, or spinhook kick. You could also make some light contact with his leg from your own flamingo, just to move it a little bit off centerline or to tangle it up, then follow it with a jump back kick, or jump spinhook.

But yes, the best thing to do would be to dodge it, then counter.
 :asian:  :asian:


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## MichiganTKD (Mar 24, 2004)

One thing I have also observed: Flamingo sparrers tend to have very weak kicking. Because by trying to fight on one leg, they demonstrate that they are used to fighting people who do not have enough power in their technique to unbalance them. If they actually fought people who could really contact, they would understand how stupid staying on one leg is.
Always makes me laugh whenever I see a crane-stance sparrer or someone who tries to execute multiple roundhouses or side kicks with the same leg without setting the foot down. Used extensively in point fighting. What exactly are they trying to accomplish?


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## Shu2jack (Mar 26, 2004)

Well, if I am winning the match by points, I will just let him stand there on one foot like an idoit while I freely move around so he can't hit me. Forces him to drop the leg and spar. If he doesn't want to, then I win by points when time is called.

Side stepping is really good and so is jamming, but you have to be really good with your timing and how you do it or else you will take a blow to the head.

Two things I enjoy doing are;

1) Throwing a strong side kick at his body. His leg is in the way and he will have to use it to block. This isn't illegal. He is using an area of his body you are not allowed to strike as a way to block a legal target area of his body. After getting knocked on his butt a few times and getting a sore leg he will learn why one learns how to do "proper" blocks and kicks.

Trust me, people who spar like a flamingo do so because they are not fast/strong enough to throw a effective kick from a sparring stance and/or they suck at defense/moving around so they use their leg as protection and to keep people away.

2)When you block your kick, block hard to bruise the leg and block in such a motion that their leg gets knocked away and they lose balance. Then you are free to punch them in their gut. 

This works well with the jamming. If their leg is up and they do a round kick at you, then step into the kick while you block with your lead hand. If you time it right then you will be inside their legs (in such a position that they can not effectively kick you) and you can kind of "push off" with your block and knock them off balance as you punch them with a cross.


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## Gaidheal (Apr 10, 2004)

"What are they trying to accomplish?"

Points, presumably ;¬)

I agree, my humble (for our club at least) sidekick counter will send anyone on one leg back at least 3 or 4 feet and probably onto their **** (they MIGHT be good enough to stay standing, after all...).

Sparring is not "real" in terms of a fight.

John


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## DragonFooter (Apr 11, 2004)

Mind you, i'm the first to use the flamingo stance during sparring in my ITF school. the reason i use it because once the leg is in chambered position it adds deception and speed to any kick due to the shorter distance traveled to the target. However as time passes other students began to use it as well and soon, sparring sessions became boring as jam-kicks occur pretty often. This led me to the answer of using setups(deception) and jumping kicks. the idea is to get the flamingo sparrer to raise his/her leg and then launch a jump kick at him (preferably jump sidekick with the lead leg). For advanced sparrers use the 180 degrees spinning roundkick in the opposite direction of the opponent. In addition my master once sparred with me(still a flamingo user) and countered my stance with a sliding twisting kick touching my cheeks! Now that's what i call self control!! phew


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## tshadowchaser (Apr 11, 2004)

Every time he/she puts it out hammer it with the strongest block you can. The toes,instep, and shin are your target. When you jam it drop an elbow onto the raised leg as you punch with the other hand.
 I like the idea of the side kick into his leg, also. If the leg he presents to you is his primary weapon, take it away from him.


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## Gaidheal (Apr 11, 2004)

P.S. I will use it too (also ITF sparring) if only as an ABD (attack by drawing) technique.  E.g.  "Go Flamingo" and then when they start to come in drop foot and pivot to deliver a reverse kick as they (often) move right into it.  Doesn't always work well, but equally, sometimes it works brilliantly.  Then go back to "Flamingo" and see how they react.. after all, you might really kick off the front leg this time if they close.. being unpredictable in sparring is always going to be useful.  I guess that is the heart of this one.. if all the user has is "Flamingo Style" it's both annoying and pretty easily dealt with.  If it's just one of many useful "non-standard" stances to help conceal intentions and chambering of techniques, great.

John


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## Kodanjaclay (Apr 13, 2004)

I dun mean to sound silly, but what are you talking about? I have never heard of anything "flamingo" in KMA. Usually when I hear flamingo, I think pink flamingos from FL or Flamingo dancers in Vegas... i prefer the latter of the two.


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## DragonFooter (Apr 13, 2004)

Kodanjaclay said:
			
		

> I dun mean to sound silly, but what are you talking about? I have never heard of anything "flamingo" in KMA. Usually when I hear flamingo, I think pink flamingos from FL or Flamingo dancers in Vegas... i prefer the latter of the two.


 Flamingo stance is not the 'standard' term for taekwon-do it's more actually a err...'nickname' for the one legged stance as in the pattern/poomse/tul errr.. dan-goon?? or choong-moo. well flamingo dancers dance with one leg don't they?:boing2:


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## Kodanjaclay (Apr 13, 2004)

Ok so its like a crane stance? I don't recall seeing one in either Dan Gun or Chung Moo. Of course, I haven't done that set in about 5 years or so, so I would not rely on my memory.


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## Gaidheal (Apr 13, 2004)

It's not a move in Dan Gun. In fact, it's not even a recognized "TKD Move" at least not in ITF anyway! As a stance it's not terribly good EXCEPT for sparring, if you can pull it off (keeping opponent away with a flurry of kicks everytime they move to within range, because you have already chambered and can land the kick before they can do something to you). The discussion started because someone lacked the experience/knowledge to get around this (frustrating) technique which was being used on them in sparring bouts; they asked advice for dealing with it.. and lots was given! As well as a few admissions to using the technique against opponents who don't seem to be able to get around it, heh!

John

P.S.  Yes, as a formal stance in some arts it would be called "Crane" or some variation (e.g. "White Crane").  Personally I call it the "Pink Flamingo" when countered properly, because they are pink with embarassment as they get up off the floor.  The dancers are "Flamenco" (the word is the same meaning just different language/spelling as I understand it).


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## DragonFooter (Apr 13, 2004)

in choong moo it's during the 6th movement if i recall correctly, but of course during sparring 
we(flamingo stancers) use it in a more er...ready-to-attack state.
A better description would be when a sidekick is performed halfway with the leg in chambered position(not extended). A different version will be when a muay thai raises his knee to block against low kicks. 
OK now what is a crane stance???


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## Gaidheal (Apr 13, 2004)

See, now I would not think of them in the same way... I guess I'd make a distinction between bringing a leg to a "chamber" (from TKD thinking) position in order to block a kick, or even as a feint (and presumably returning it to the floor or otherwise not remaining on one leg) and the STANCE which implies staying 'permanently' on one leg and inviting an attacker to approach, then reacting with a kick of some form (usually).

'Crane' stance is a term for the latter as a formal stance in some (primarily Kung Fu, in my experience) styles.  One form I have seen is that where the practitioner raises the arms, bending them at 90 degrees (so that elbows point forward and upper arm is close to horizontal) as 'wings'.  I believe this or something similar was in "Karate Kid".


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## DragonFooter (Apr 13, 2004)

Gaidheal said:
			
		

> See, now I would not think of them in the same way... I guess I'd make a distinction between bringing a leg to a "chamber" (from TKD thinking) position in order to block a kick, or even as a feint (and presumably returning it to the floor or otherwise not remaining on one leg) and the STANCE which implies staying 'permanently' on one leg and inviting an attacker to approach, then reacting with a kick of some form (usually).
> 
> 'Crane' stance is a term for the latter as a formal stance in some (primarily Kung Fu, in my experience) styles. One form I have seen is that where the practitioner raises the arms, bending them at 90 degrees (so that elbows point forward and upper arm is close to horizontal) as 'wings'. I believe this or something similar was in "Karate Kid".


A very good distinction of the two if I might say...i never tought of it as a seperate category


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## Gaidheal (Apr 13, 2004)

*blush*

;¬)


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## Marginal (Apr 13, 2004)

Gaidheal said:
			
		

> "What are they trying to accomplish?"
> 
> Points, presumably ;¬)
> 
> I agree, my humble (for our club at least) sidekick counter will send anyone on one leg back at least 3 or 4 feet and probably onto their **** (they MIGHT be good enough to stay standing, after all...).



I've never seen this happen.  



> Sparring is not "real" in terms of a fight.



Kinda goes without saying...


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## Gaidheal (Apr 14, 2004)

Sorry if I'm being stupid, but.. never seen what happen?  (I can see three different interpretations).

Wish it did go without saying.. took me a while to realize that sparring is not Self Defence practice.  Honestly.  That was my mental attitude going into it, until I realized that was what I was doing and that it was also why I was having trouble.  I know I am not unique in terms of not intuitively seeing the divide between "sport" stuff and self defence/technically correct techniques because I recently had three separate conversations in NGs/BBs about precisely this.  It's something I consider to be "a bit of an issue" within TKD because I think the distinction needs to be made more than it sometimes is.


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## Marginal (Apr 14, 2004)

Gaidheal said:
			
		

> Sorry if I'm being stupid, but.. never seen what happen?  (I can see three different interpretations).



Well, I've never personally witnesseed you knocking over anyone, so that's one possible interpretation, but it's not especially irrelevant, so I felt it was safe to eliminate that as a possible intrepretation of my post. 

I've never seen anyone knock over someone on one leg with a side kick in ITF style sparring is what I was really saying. Most people I've seen go at it know enough to put their weight into the kick so that they're not easily dislodged by a side kick. (Much less thrown 3-4 feet away.) 



> Wish it did go without saying.. took me a while to realize that sparring is not Self Defence practice.  Honestly.


Guess I was lucky. I already knew that going in. My inctructors also routinely make mention of it as well. Still seems a needless interjection in a thread about dealing with a flaminco style sparrer. 

By definition, the question of the real fight has already been removed and it becomes merely pedantic to bring up the reality of fighting when it doesn't really apply to the topic at hand.


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## Gaidheal (Apr 15, 2004)

Well, I move out onto a 45 to the side which they have the leg raised on.. i.e. they have raised right leg I move off to their right and deliver the sidekick at a 90 to that direction (i.e. 45 to MY right). Makes it hard for them to retain balance if they are inexperienced, because often as you move they kick straight in front, initially, then perhaps realize the technique needs to be sent to their side, but it is harder to change direction on one leg and it's (obviously!) less stable. With it being the other side to the standing leg, it's harder to regain balance even if they bring their leg down quickly, because the momentum is such that their c-o-m is moving outside the 'platform' they are trying to make, unless they step it down behind them. 3 - 4 feet? Hmm. I was exaggerating, I think LOL More like a foot a so away, really, basically onto ****. But at the least, if it's pulled off they are in an awkward stance ready for you to launch something else. It does rely on speed and also, probably not going to manage it repeatedly, although messing about with a friend I did (but we'd both been drinking). At the absolute least, if they stop the kick it ought to still worry them that you got around the leg thanks to their reduced ability to move and turn (stably at least).

The thing about SD vs Sparring? I think I was just thinking out loud. I realized relatively recently that I was seeing sparring in that way. Perhaps because of where I came to MA from anyway (i.e. looking for the SD aspect over anything else). It was more my mental attitude than a fault with the instructors, per se. I had not really managed to separate the idea of 'sport' and 'SD' within TKD. As for relevance in this thread.. 'Flaminco' or whatever you wish to call it CAN be made to work, for points sparring at least. But it'd be a really stupid idea in a "real" fight was I think where I was coming from.

Now, I know this bit is no longer in your post.. but it is in my inbox, so I'll tackle it anyway. Biting as an effective SD technique? Sure it is part of it, if you are unfortunate enough to wind up in a hold and can bite somewhere, I'd say do it. Bar fights? Not really, but after leaving nightclubs, sadly a couple of times and witnessed both far to often (I used to work behind a bar as a student and even did some 'door work' during that same period). Dog attacks? As stated in the thread which you must be talking about, aside from an overly enthusiastic pet, no dog has tried to attack me. I may have even over-reacted in that instance, since I don't like dogs. However I have seen real footage of them, as well as seen, firsthand, dog packs dealing with small animals.

Pedantic? Me? Never! ;¬)

John

P.S. "Ah. TKD sucks for self defense rears its gnarled hoary head yet again..."  (quoted from my inbox) Now, why would you think I might say that given that TKD is the core of my Martial Arts and the only one I'm interested in 'belt chasing' in, as it were?


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## Marginal (Apr 16, 2004)

Gaidheal said:
			
		

> Well, I move out onto a 45 to the side which they have the leg raised on.. i.e. they have raised right leg I move off to their right and deliver the sidekick at a 90 to that direction (i.e. 45 to MY right). Makes it hard for them to retain balance if they are inexperienced, because often as you move they kick straight in front, initially, then perhaps realize the technique needs to be sent to their side, but it is harder to change direction on one leg and it's (obviously!) less stable. With it being the other side to the standing leg, it's harder to regain balance even if they bring their leg down quickly, because the momentum is such that their c-o-m is moving outside the 'platform' they are trying to make, unless they step it down behind them.



This is a much better description. (Incidently I edited the post because I realized afterwards that you don't really say anything outrageous. It's just tends to be vague and needs further clarification.)



> At the absolute least, if they stop the kick it ought to still worry them that you got around the leg thanks to their reduced ability to move and turn (stably at least).



True enough. A one legged person is inherently less mobile. 



> As for relevance in this thread.. 'Flaminco' or whatever you wish to call it CAN be made to work, for points sparring at least. But it'd be a really stupid idea in a "real" fight was I think where I was coming from.



Hey, it looks stylish in VF4 and Tekken.  



> Biting as an effective SD technique? Sure it is part of it, if you are unfortunate enough to wind up in a hold and can bite somewhere, I'd say do it.



Evidence suggests that it's probably not really going to loosen a hold though. That's my only beef with the suggestion. Has a high probability of just making the grabber mad. 



> Dog attacks? As stated in the thread which you must be talking about, aside from an overly enthusiastic pet, no dog has tried to attack me. I may have even over-reacted in that instance, since I don't like dogs. However I have seen real footage of them, as well as seen, firsthand, dog packs dealing with small animals.



The main problem there is it all sounds theoretical. Personally, I don't want to risk a dog gnawing on my arm just to poke it in the eye. (Shrug)


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## Gaidheal (Apr 16, 2004)

> Evidence suggests that it's probably not really going to loosen a hold though. That's my only beef with the suggestion. Has a high probability of just making the grabber mad.


I'd never want to be in a situation where the only thing I could do was bite, because I was out of possible techniques. But if I was trapped with nothing else, I'd probably bite them for sheer spite. Not exactly going to make it worse (in a real fight they already want to hurt you, with very few exceptions) and it MIGHT pahse them, especially someone who grabbed without really thinking through what they are doing, what they want to do next, etc. Against a trained opponent, probably just annoys them and results in some equally ineffective but unpleasant revenge attack. *shrug*



> The main problem there is it all sounds theoretical. Personally, I don't want to risk a dog gnawing on my arm just to poke it in the eye. (Shrug)


Chances are the dog will get your arm anyway, regardless. They really are that fast and determined. My position with is, don't offer it your arm, but when you do fail to fight it off and it has your arm, take its eyes out. Make more sense than the way I posted it earlier?

John

P.S. I can see where you are coming from with the 'vague' comment.. I have a habit of assuming that people know everything I know and thus leaving out the "taken for granted" stuff (to me).  I shall try and be more precise and full in future ;¬)


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## hardheadjarhead (Apr 16, 2004)

the_kicking_fiend said:
			
		

> Hi,
> 
> I just wanted some input from people about tactics about how to spar someone who uses flamingo style heavily.  What I mean by flamingo is standing on one leg and having the other leg constantly chambered in usually a sidekick ready position or kind of half way inbetween a front kick and a sidekick position.
> 
> ...



1.  Kick 'em in the testicles.
2.  Drop back spin kick the base leg.  Do it hard and you'll break the leg above the ankle.
3.  Axe kick the raised leg.
4.  Back kick to the gut.  You can "dog leg" your kick around their raised knee if its in the way.

One or two of those might be acceptable in a tournament...the others somewhat less so.

Regards,

Steve


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## Kodanjaclay (Apr 16, 2004)

Ok Killer... he said sparrer, he did not say fighter.


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## hardheadjarhead (Apr 16, 2004)

True, Frank...but we must provide for the bloodthirsty sociopaths out there, now, musn't we?

 %-} 

Regards,

Steve


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## Gaidheal (Apr 16, 2004)

Axe kick and reverse kick both sound like they could work in ITF sparring.  Not what I'd try but that is because I am not very good at Axe kick and the reverse kick risks being landed "unsighted" (for ITF sparring, not sure about WTF/others, you must be looking at the opponent when the technique lands) and thus getting a warning/DQ.  I do agree, though, that the reverse kick is well suited to getting around the raised knee.

John


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## MichiganTKD (Apr 16, 2004)

In class, a good sliding side kick could very well work. Standing on one leg would not stop that kind of momentum.

For a tournament (and I'm using WTF rules), I could see a 45-degree lateral pivot to his open side and a back roundhouse to his head. What's he going to do? Hop out of the way? And his raised leg won't go that direction.


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## ThuNder_FoOt (Apr 18, 2004)

You can also use an over-head round kick to their open side(simulates the path of an axe kick). I've scored using that kick with a 45degree shuffle. If done correctly, you can position yourself at an angle where its difficult for the flamingo person to pull off a kick with that leg, as it is usually jammed while you score.

Just my $0.02  :asian:


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## Touch Of Death (Apr 28, 2004)

the_kicking_fiend said:
			
		

> Hi,
> 
> I just wanted some input from people about tactics about how to spar someone who uses flamingo style heavily.  What I mean by flamingo is standing on one leg and having the other leg constantly chambered in usually a sidekick ready position or kind of half way inbetween a front kick and a sidekick position.
> 
> ...


I've only read two responses to the question. Jamming the kick is one option, but your still playing his game. Make him put his leg down to come get you. Circle and control the distance. Play with contact and out of contact range, and get him to throw the kick out of frustration. Its not as if he can shuffle to get you, he's standing on one leg. There is a price to pay for fighting in this manner; so, you should overcharge him.
Sean
(edited for bad grammar) :uhyeah:


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