# Real WC Videos?



## Hong Kong Pooey (Sep 19, 2014)

Steve asked pretty much the same question that I'm going to in another thread, and it's something I've been thinking about for a while, so thought I'd start a dedicated one.

 Are there any decent clips out there of people using WC in a real fight (or even competition I suppose) and winning/doing well?

There's loads of demo's and stuff but it's very hard to find anything on YT of a WC guy (or gal) against a non-compliant opponent and using something that remotely resembles what I'd expect to see.

Most of the ones I come across are either mis-labelled or just look like generic punching, kicking, grappling.

I thought maybe some people may know of some that are only posted with Chinese descriptions or something? 

I'll start the ball rolling with one that may or may not be WC (and because it's quite perhaps more knowledgeable people than me can confirm/identify his art:


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## VT_Vectis (Sep 19, 2014)

Great idea for a thread, HKP, I'd like to see some good examples myself.

Unfortunately the video you posted , from what what I'm aware of, is of a fella who was in the British army, was a bouncer, and holds a black belt in a form of Karate. I got this info from the description and comments of another Version of that video on YT. The comment was fro m a chap who claimed to know both the people involved, but this may well be wrong. Either way I'd say not VT being used.


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## Hong Kong Pooey (Sep 19, 2014)

VT_Vectis said:


> Great idea for a thread, HKP, I'd like to see some good examples myself.
> 
> Unfortunately the video you posted , from what what I'm aware of, is of a fella who was in the British army, was a bouncer, and holds a black belt in a form of Karate. I got this info from the description and comments of another Version of that video on YT. The comment was fro m a chap who claimed to know both the people involved, but this may well be wrong. Either way I'd say not VT being used.



I've seen it described as Karate and Wing Chun in different versions so good to have it cleared up, thanks.

Let's hope there are better clips to come!

Oh and just realised I missed out "amusing)" in the last line of the OP.


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## mook jong man (Sep 19, 2014)

Most applications in my lineage , and I'm sure it's the same in other lineages are over and done with in under a second.
You would have to be a pretty quick draw on the old camera phone to capture that I imagine.

Besides that , think about the last time you actually had to use it.
There has been quite a few close calls , but the last time I had to use it for real was in the early 90s when I dropped a bloke with a Fak Sau to the mouth.

He had come up behind me , grabbed me by the shoulder and had his fist poised to strike.
Suffice to say , my strike got there first.

I was able to avoid most situations because I didn't hang around in pubs at all hours of the night , and I also avoided hanging around with dickheads who were likely to start trouble and expect me to help bail them out.

So I would expect that most Wing Chun people are intelligent like me , and do not fight at the mere drop of a hat , but tend to
 avoid trouble at all costs .

For that reason you are probably not likely to see footage of Wing Chun guys brawling in the street , we are the type that have already sensed the yobs at the other end of the bar getting loud and obnoxious , and thus have decided to leave and go to a more genteel venue a good half an hour before the fists and schooner glasses have started flying.

Skill in technique is good , but skill in awareness is even better.


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## KPM (Sep 19, 2014)

Excellent points Mook.  I agree with you.  And that's exactly why I think the people that say a measure of a good instructor is how much fighting experience they have is a bit off.  To my mind, someone with a lot of street-fighting cred is likely a hoodlum themselves and not someone I would want to be associated with.


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## WcForMe (Sep 20, 2014)

Real wing chun fight with real knock out - YouTube There is this one I saw yesterday. Video says wing chun, to be honest as it a very short clip I'm not so sure. But a brutal knock out either way! One of the best street fights I've seen on YouTube I personally think!


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## Hong Kong Pooey (Sep 20, 2014)

mook jong man said:


> Most applications in my lineage , and I'm sure it's the same in other lineages are over and done with in under a second.
> You would have to be a pretty quick draw on the old camera phone to capture that I imagine.
> 
> Besides that , think about the last time you actually had to use it.
> ...



All good points Mook, especially about it being over quickly.

Also I forget sometimes that cctv isn't ubiquitous in the rest of the world like it is here in the UK. 

Still, there may be one or two gems out there that the good folks of MT have unearthed.


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## Hong Kong Pooey (Sep 20, 2014)

WcForMe said:


> Real wing chun fight with real knock out - YouTube There is this one I saw yesterday. Video says wing chun, to be honest as it a very short clip I'm not so sure. But a brutal knock out either way! One of the best street fights I've seen on YouTube I personally think!



It's a good punch to put the guy down, but there's not too much there that would identify him as a chunner to me if it wasn't in the title. 

Maybe others will see it differently though?

Thanks for the clip!


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## Argus (Sep 20, 2014)

mook jong man said:


> There has been quite a few close calls , but the last time I had to use it for real was in the early 90s when I dropped a bloke with a Fak Sau to the mouth.
> 
> He had come up behind me , grabbed me by the shoulder and had his fist poised to strike.
> Suffice to say , my strike got there first.



That's a pretty classic application of Fak Sau.

You're absolutely on the money, though. Most street fights I see are the result of two knuckle-heads engaging in knuckle-headery. 

Props to the guy in the video, though. While he looked a bit too side-on to be WC, he made excellent use of centerline theory, and maintained really good awareness and a calm composure.


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## Tames D (Sep 20, 2014)

The guy in the video had no intentions of fighting. He was a loud mouth, (looked wasted) and his only intent was to posture for the onlookers. As soon as he caught a weak punch to the face, went running off.


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## Tames D (Sep 20, 2014)

mook jong man said:


> *Most applications in my lineage , and I'm sure it's the same in other lineages are over and done with in under a second.
> You would have to be a pretty quick draw on the old camera phone to capture that I imagine.*
> 
> Besides that , think about the last time you actually had to use it.
> ...



Is this your opinion (in *bold* above) or do you have something to back it up with?


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## mook jong man (Sep 20, 2014)

Tames D said:


> Is this your opinion (in *bold* above) or do you have something to back it up with?



Well if your applications are running to more than three movements and taking a few seconds to complete , you are probably doing too much and over engineering things a little bit I would say.

Even the more fancier wooden dummy techniques in this video only take about a second from start to finish .


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## Hong Kong Pooey (Sep 20, 2014)

Tames D said:


> The guy in the video had no intentions of fighting. He was a loud mouth, (looked wasted) and his only intent was to posture for the onlookers. As soon as he caught a weak punch to the face, went running off.



I'd disagree with your description, I'd say he caught a punch solid enough to put him down and then went crawling off.


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## Tames D (Sep 20, 2014)

Hong Kong Pooey said:


> I'd disagree with your description, I'd say he caught a punch solid enough to put him down and then went crawling off.



If he had intent to fight, he wouldn't have spent a couple of minutes in the guys face the way he was. It was a just a macho show. My opinion.


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## Tames D (Sep 20, 2014)

mook jong man said:


> Well if your applications are running to more than three movements and taking a few seconds to complete , you are probably doing too much and over engineering things a little bit I would say.
> 
> Even the more fancier wooden dummy techniques in this video only take about a second from start to finish .



I may have misunderstood your post.


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## mook jong man (Sep 20, 2014)

Tames D said:


> I may have misunderstood your post.



No worries.
If you are talking about how long it would take to put someone down , say your up against the Terminator high on illegal substances or something .
Then that is hard to say , you do what you have to do to survive in that situation , if it takes a bit longer than a few seconsds so be it .

But the applications themselves  are usually very short sequences , as to whether they will have an effect or not is another story , that is up to you and how well you can generate the force required to put someone down and keep them down.


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## Argus (Sep 20, 2014)

Tames D said:


> If he had intent to fight, he wouldn't have spent a couple of minutes in the guys face the way he was. It was a just a macho show. My opinion.



I think most people who are looking to pick a fight only do so when they see their opponent as easy prey. Punch them in the face and knock them on the ground, and they're likely to reconsider the situation unless they're really invested with their pride. Thugs and knuckle-heads aren't generally looking for a fair fight.

Respectfully, I don't understand why you feel the need to downplay this video. The man in the video was being physically assaulted, and did deliver a powerful strike with good structure that knocked his assailant to the ground. Well handled all around, IMO.


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## Tames D (Sep 20, 2014)

Argus said:


> I think most people who are looking to pick a fight only do so when they see their opponent as easy prey. Punch them in the face and knock them on the ground, and they're likely to reconsider the situation unless they're really invested with their pride. Thugs and knuckle-heads aren't generally looking for a fair fight.
> 
> Respectfully, I don't understand why you feel the need to downplay this video. The man in the video was being physically assaulted, and did deliver a powerful strike with good structure that knocked his assailant to the ground. Well handled all around, IMO.



I didn't mean to downplay the punch, but the guy was obviously wasted and a strong wind would have knocked him down.


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## KPM (Sep 20, 2014)

mook jong man said:


> Even the more fancier wooden dummy techniques in this video only take about a second from start to finish .



His opponent is a giant!  He has to strike low with movements from the dummy.  He'd need a step stool to hit the guy in the face!  ;-)


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## Marnetmar (Sep 20, 2014)

Pretty sure OP's video is a karate guy.

Also, people won't want to hear this, but what does this say about the current state of Wing Chun?


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## mook jong man (Sep 20, 2014)

Marnetmar said:


> Pretty sure OP's video is a karate guy.
> 
> Also, people won't want to hear this, but what does this say about the current state of Wing Chun?



It says we are all law abiding citizens who find violence in any form to be totally abhorrent.

Furthermore we are usually found tucked up in bed by 8pm most nights sipping from a mug of hot cocoa and reading a good book.


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## Tames D (Sep 20, 2014)

Marnetmar said:


> Pretty sure OP's video is a karate guy.
> 
> Also, people won't want to hear this, but what does this say about the current state of Wing Chun?



Off the top of my head I would say that it means either Wing Chun guys don't get in fights (like MJM suggested), or the actual footage of street fights do have WC guys in them, but they default back to wild punching and kicking instead of their training kicking in.


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## geezer (Sep 21, 2014)

Tames D said:


> Off the top of my head I would say that it means either Wing Chun guys don't get in fights (like MJM suggested), or the actual footage of street fights do have WC guys in them, but *they default back to wild punching and kicking instead of their training kicking in.*



No doubt this often happens. I haven't been in an actual _fight_ (as compared to sparring) since my mid twenties -- more than 30 years ago. At the time I'd had a year or two of WC -- which flew out the window and it was all wild haymakers, scuffling, then grappling. It takes a while for WC to get deeply ingrained into your muscle memory, especially if you start as an adult.

In my case, by the time WC began to be my natural way of moving, I'd matured to the point where i wasn't getting in fights. Some other factors include the relatively small percentage of people who actually train WC for any length of time (as compared to just talking about it) and how unlikely it would be to catch a real fight where WC is used on a security cam, etc. 

And finally, there is the reality that when WC is used in a _uncontrolled_ free-fighting situation, it often doesn't look like the formalized WC practiced in many schools. Alan Orr, Sifu Fernandez (aka "Fighterman") and others have posted some relevant, if controversial (at least in WC circles) opinions on this.







For example, Alan Orr sees his WC as playing a substantial role_ in the following fight _with his fighter Josh Kaldani. Many other WC people don't see the WC here. I see some truth in both points of view, but_ personally_, I'd like to see some more fighters who use their WC _in a more immediately apparent manner_. For example, in clips where Alan Orr himself spars, the WC content seems more obvious to me.


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## mograph (Sep 21, 2014)

geezer said:


> In my case, by the time WC began to be my natural way of moving, I'd matured to the point where i wasn't getting in fights.


This is my ideal image of a martial artist.


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## Cephalopod (Sep 21, 2014)

I have no idea where this gent learned to fight but, to my eyes, is looks like wing chun applied in reality. Check out the way he fills center...

[video=youtube_share;YiKgtZCfTUU]http://youtu.be/YiKgtZCfTUU[/video]


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## mook jong man (Sep 21, 2014)

Cephalopod said:


> I have no idea where this gent learned to fight but, to my eyes, is looks like wing chun applied in reality. Check out the way he fills center...
> 
> [video=youtube_share;YiKgtZCfTUU]http://youtu.be/YiKgtZCfTUU[/video]



You may very well be right there Cephalopod.
It looks like it might be a horse racing or Greyhound track in Hong Kong , and if I'm not mistaken it sounds like they are speaking Cantonese.
So everything seems to fit.


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## dudewingchun (Sep 23, 2014)

I dont know if it counts but i posted a video of me sparring with someone who is non compliant


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## wtxs (Sep 23, 2014)

dudewingchun said:


> I dont know if it counts but i posted a video of me sparring with someone who is non compliant



I'm sure we all like to check it out ... please provide the link.


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## dudewingchun (Sep 23, 2014)

wtxs said:


> I'm sure we all like to check it out ... please provide the link.




Alrighty , I already made a thread so didnt want to double post haha

Actually 2 videos from the same session.






and '






I always seem to do much better when the camera isnt rolling


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## Hanzou (Sep 24, 2014)

Two WC masters fighting it out.


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## Tony Dismukes (Sep 24, 2014)

dudewingchun said:


> Alrighty , I already made a thread so didnt want to double post haha
> 
> Actually 2 videos from the same session.
> 
> ...



I realize that you're doing just some light friendly sparring, but I think you'll get a lot more benefit working from closer in at a more realistic distance. Both you and your friend are throwing a lot of punches from out of range. Especially for a close-range style like Wing Chun you want to get used to maintaining the correct distance.


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## wtxs (Sep 24, 2014)

dudewingchun said:


> I dont know if it counts but i posted a video of me sparring with someone who is non compliant





dudewingchun said:


> Alrighty , I already made a thread so didnt want to double post haha
> 
> Actually 2 videos from the same session.
> 
> ...



Alllrighty, saw this video before, IMO ... non compliant ??? :hmm:   Fargettaboutit ... never mind what you consider as sparing.  Am I being too critical?  Maybe other members can chime-in.


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## Hong Kong Pooey (Sep 24, 2014)

Tony Dismukes said:


> I realize that you're doing just some light friendly sparring, but I think you'll get a lot more benefit working from closer in at a more realistic distance. Both you and your friend are throwing a lot of punches from out of range. Especially for a close-range style like Wing Chun you want to get used to maintaining the correct distance.



My thoughts exactly


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## Hong Kong Pooey (Sep 24, 2014)

wtxs said:


> Alllrighty, saw this video before, IMO ... non compliant ??? :hmm:   Fargettaboutit ... never mind what you consider as sparing.  Am I being too critical?  Maybe other members can chime-in.



I wouldn't argue with that.

Fair play to the dude for posting the clips, but this is more like the kind of thing I meant by non compliant:






It's semi-organized rather than a pure street altercation, but neither guy seems to be holding back imo.


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## dudewingchun (Sep 24, 2014)

wtxs said:


> Alllrighty, saw this video before, IMO ... non compliant ??? :hmm:   Fargettaboutit ... never mind what you consider as sparing.  Am I being too critical?  Maybe other members can chime-in.



haha thats cool, I want criticism ! then I can get better. its alwats good to have an outside perspective otherwise id be a frog impressed by my own croak( is that the saying?)Well idno if you guys have ever sparred, but he was throwing real punches, you cant tell how much force there is from a video... in the video im about 75 kg and hes atleast 100 kg, plays a **** ton of rugby and has done some boxing and bjj( only for a few months lol so guess doesnt count?) so i thought would be good to get used to. We spar alot off video , so he is super aware of what i do. About the range , I know thats what im trying to get better at, Bridging and sticking to all the principles iv learnt,  Easier said than Done haha.  But next time ill make we spar ill make it more hardcore. This guy likes to stay out of range and throw jab jab then close in with  a hook. It does say light sparring aswell.. Not hardcore full contact.

Also fighting with those big blue gloves is really hard tbh. 

What are your guys thoughts on the Second video?  same as the first?  IF it doesnt represent good wing chun maybe ill take em down until i make a really impressive one.

Id like to see a video of you sparring btw with all your wing chun techniques clearly visible.  


Cheeers
Sean


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## drop bear (Sep 24, 2014)

dudewingchun said:


> haha thats cool, I want criticism ! then I can get better. its alwats good to have an outside perspective otherwise id be a frog impressed by my own croak( is that the saying?)Well idno if you guys have ever sparred, but he was throwing real punches, you cant tell how much force there is from a video... in the video im about 75 kg and hes atleast 100 kg, plays a **** ton of rugby and has done some boxing and bjj( only for a few months lol so guess doesnt count?) so i thought would be good to get used to. We spar alot off video , so he is super aware of what i do. About the range , I know thats what im trying to get better at, Bridging and sticking to all the principles iv learnt,  Easier said than Done haha.  But next time ill make we spar ill make it more hardcore. This guy likes to stay out of range and throw jab jab then close in with  a hook. It does say light sparring aswell.. Not hardcore full contact.
> 
> Also fighting with those big blue gloves is really hard tbh.
> 
> ...




Then split the difference and use MMA gloves. Or even gloves and headgear. It won't effect his boxing. It will only make him better.


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## dudewingchun (Sep 24, 2014)

I will definitely use mma gloves next time


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## mook jong man (Sep 25, 2014)

dudewingchun said:


> I will definitely use mma gloves next time



Don't wear any gloves.
They wreck your technique anyway , they get in the way of doing proper Tan Sau's and basically limit you to doing a lot of Pak Sau's.

As it has been pointed out already you have a problem with throwing strikes out of range , one way to fix that is to  both wear chest protectors and only strike the chest.

Make sure everytime that you step into hit , your arm is still in the optimum angle just before you strike.

Another very good exercise for this is to start off chain punching lightly on your partners chest , he does not strike at all his job is to stay very mobile and just move randomly in any direction.

Your job is to stay with him as he dances around and to keep punching him in the chest , making sure that you are constantly staying in close and in range.
Do not let your punches lose contact with him.

One other thing I noticed is that you tend to engage in some type of hand fencing thing where he throws out a probing type of punch from out of range and you stay at a distance messing around with his hands , don't do this.

Soon as you make contact with his hand , latch / cut down , or Pak Sau that thing out the way and move in and hit him.

Finally I would make the hitting the head thing , even with head gear on , a very, very occasional event.
Trust me , there are more enjoyable ways to lose brain cells and it is no fun when you are older and walk into a room and can't remember why the the hell you walked in there.


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## geezer (Sep 25, 2014)

mook jong man said:


> ...it is no fun when you are older and walk into a room and can't remember why the the hell you walked in there.


 Seems like I've been there and done that, but I'm not sure.


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## KPM (Sep 25, 2014)

Mook gives good advice!   You can gain much more from "progressive sparring drills" like he describes than you can from just going in and "banging" with a friend.  Pick some aspect of the exchange that you want to develop and figure out how to put it into a drill.  Then make the drill more and more "alive" and less predictable so you have to work to "get" it.   Even Boxers and MMA fighters don't do heavy sparring at every work out session.  They work on aspects of the game...bits and pieces...that are then assembled later when sparring.  

A "sparring" mentality or approach to Wing Chun where you just go in and start free-sparring with no thought to Wing Chun specific strategy, tactics, and techniques is very likely another reason why so many Wing Chun people end up doing what looks like some form of pseudo-boxing when they spar.


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## KPM (Sep 25, 2014)

Hong Kong Pooey said:


> .



This one is interesting!  I'd like to point out that this takes place in the orient where western boxing is not the "default" method of fighting in the subconscious of the participants.  No neither one of them resorted to the "pseudo-boxing" structure you see in clips from westerners.  Instead they resort to the "long-arm flailing" that you often see in Kung Fu movies!  ;-)   You don't really see much Wing Chun or TKD!  Just brawling!


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## Kung Fu Wang (Sep 25, 2014)

The "stand up striking" in this clip doesn't play much important role here. It's the 

- clinch that the guy (with the white shirt) wraps his right arm around the other guy's neck (at 0.14),
- "front cut" throw (at 0.22),
- side mount,
- following on with ground striking that end this fight.

It also indicates how difficult it can be to "prevent a clinch from happening" in a real fight.


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## mook jong man (Sep 25, 2014)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> The "stand up striking" in this clip doesn't play much important role here. It's the
> 
> - clinch that the guy (with the white shirt) wraps his right arm around the other guy's neck (at 0.14),
> - "front cut" throw (at 0.22),
> ...



No , what it indicates is that if your punches are wild and all over the place , there will be a point of entry where your opponent can eventually get a clinch.

It is bit more of a difficult proposition to do that , when the striker adheres to correct form and keeps the punches compact and on center.


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## Hanzou (Sep 25, 2014)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> The "stand up striking" in this clip doesn't play much important role here. It's the
> 
> - clinch that the guy (with the white shirt) wraps his right arm around the other guy's neck (at 0.14),
> - "front cut" throw (at 0.22),
> ...



The fact that the clinch happens so much in boxing should be indicative of how hard it is to stop. 

Also it's pretty funny how you this fight ended on the ground.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Sep 25, 2014)

mook jong man said:


> No , what it indicates is that if your punches are wild and all over the place , there will be a point of entry where your opponent can eventually get a clinch.
> 
> It is bit more of a difficult proposition to do that , when the striker adheres to correct form and keeps the punches compact and on center.


Do you think the "centerline chain punches" can prevent "clinch" from happening?

Your opponent can still use "double haymakers (downward separate hands)" to 

- separate your arms from top-down,
- get into your center, and 
- obtain the clinch that he is looking for.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Sep 25, 2014)

Hanzou said:


> The fact that the clinch happens so much in boxing should be indicative of how hard it is to stop.



That's my concern too. A good boxer should have good "jab, cross" combo training as well. IMO, as long as you extend your arms and punch. it's very difficult (if no impossible) to avoid "clinch".


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## mook jong man (Sep 25, 2014)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> Do you think the "centerline chain punches" can prevent "clinch" from happening?
> 
> Your opponent's 45 degree downward "haymaker" can still knock your straight punch to the side.



And there are ways to deal with a force coming from the side , mainly a Bong Sau with a 45 degree pivot.
Depending on how much bodyweight you have committed to that haymaker , you are highly likely to find yourself redirected to the side and off balance , leaving your side and back exposed.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Sep 25, 2014)

mook jong man said:


> And there are ways to deal with a force coming from the side , mainly a Bong Sau with a 45 degree pivot.
> Depending on how much bodyweight you have committed to that haymaker , you are highly likely to find yourself redirected to the side and off balance , leaving your side and back exposed.



In my personal experience, a 100% committed body rotation 45 degree downward haymaker can be as powerful as the MT guy's roundhouse kick. It can not only knock down your (general YOU) arms, it can also knock your body off balance as well. It can "interrupt" whatever you are trying to do big time.

If your opponent's haymaker can interrupt your chain punches, that interruption will give him an opportunity to achieve his "clinch". What I'm trying to say is trying to avoid "clinch" is very difficult (if not impossible).


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## wtxs (Sep 25, 2014)

dudewingchun said:


> haha thats cool, I want criticism ! then I can get better. its alwats good to have an outside perspective otherwise id be a frog impressed by my own croak( is that the saying?)_*Well idno if you guys have ever sparred, but he was throwing real punches*_, you cant tell how much force there is from a video... in the video im about 75 kg and hes atleast 100 kg, plays a **** ton of rugby and has done some boxing and bjj( only for a few months lol so guess doesnt count?) so i thought would be good to get used to. _*We spar alot off video , so he is super aware of what i do*_. About the range , I know thats what im trying to get better at, Bridging and sticking to all the principles iv learnt,  Easier said than Done haha.  But next time ill make we spar ill make it more hardcore. This guy likes to stay out of range and throw jab jab then close in with  a hook. It does say light sparring aswell.. Not hardcore full contact.
> 
> Also fighting with those big blue gloves is really hard tbh.
> 
> ...



If you welcome criticism ...

Have we ever sparred??? Are you serious??? Likely some of us old farts had gotten into martial art long before you were born, what do you think?

Your non-compliant dude throwing REAL punches :lfao:  ... my grand daughter can do better.

If indeed you do LOTS of sparring off-camera, the end result is not really evident by the video you put up, ask your teacher to show you how to improve your skill .... you do study with an qualify teacher, right?

BTW it take guts to put video of yourself on the net.


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## geezer (Sep 25, 2014)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> That's my concern too. A good boxer should have good "jab, cross" combo training as well. IMO, as long as you extend your arms and punch. it's very difficult (if no impossible) to avoid "clinch".



As a rule, if the fight goes on for more than a very short time, and if either or both fighters are determined to close and clinch, then the clinch _will_ happen. And soon after the ground happens.

Still, your reference to the clinch in boxing as compared to other combat sports is an imperfect one. A boxer's d_efensive _clinch is very different animal than a grappler's _offensive_ use of a clinch. A boxer doesn't have much to lose if the other boxer gets him into a clinch till the ref separates the two of them, so not as much is riding on preventing the clinch.


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## drop bear (Sep 25, 2014)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> In my personal experience, a 100% committed body rotation 45 degree downward haymaker can be as powerful as the MT guy's roundhouse kick. It can not only knock down your (general YOU) arms, it can also knock your body off balance as well. It can "interrupt" whatever you are trying to do big time.
> 
> If your opponent's haymaker can interrupt your chain punches, that interruption will give him an opportunity to achieve his "clinch". What I'm trying to say is trying to avoid "clinch" is very difficult (if not impossible).



Not really. Just in general straight punching beats round punching. That is a basic boxing fundamental. So those chain punches really will work against hey makers. 

In a practical sense the chain punches are doing the same job as that big fist idea.

But you don't clinch you cover and change levels where those long combinations work against you either by them punching and falling in to the takedown. Or by you punching and their defence bringing their hands up leaving them open for the takedown.


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## drop bear (Sep 25, 2014)

geezer said:


> As a rule, if the fight goes on for more than a very short time, and if either or both fighters are determined to close and clinch, then the clinch _will_ happen. And soon after the ground happens.
> 
> Still, your reference to the clinch in boxing as compared to other combat sports is an imperfect one. A boxer's d_efensive _clinch is very different animal than a grappler's _offensive_ use of a clinch. A boxer doesn't have much to lose if the other boxer gets him into a clinch till the ref separates the two of them, so not as much is riding on preventing the clinch.



Sort of.

I tend to double under hook clinch for boxing that could be a takedown if I wanted. But what is good for striking. Hands high head down and light on your feet. Is not good for wrestling hands down head up and heavy on your feet.

This is the big MMA compromise


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## KPM (Sep 25, 2014)

This one is not  bad.  At least the Wing Chun is recognizable!


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## Argus (Sep 25, 2014)

I always liked this one, personally:


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## dudewingchun (Sep 25, 2014)

wtxs said:


> If you welcome criticism ...
> 
> Have we ever sparred??? Are you serious??? Likely some of us old farts had gotten into martial art long before you were born, what do you think?
> 
> ...




Well you never know , some people practice martial arts there whole life and have never been in a fight once. But Im Only 20, I know alot of you would crush me in a second haha

Oh man , ill let him know haha. I mean they had power behind them.  But I will tell him that some guy on the net thought they were **** and to throw more violent ones next time. Btw like mook jong man said about head-shots, we avoid them when we spar cause its more detrimental. 

Can you tell me exactly whats wrong with his punches ? 

I should correct myself , We DID lots of sparring in the time period, this video is about 2 years old, the order goes like this- decide to start sparring by taking video- then spar lots no video. I do hope my skill has improve a lot since then, its just hard to get a regular sparring partner.
Tbh this vid was never made for the net, was just to see how much wing chun i could do when i first started sparring.

You guys are always welcome to come and fight me or my sparring partner.( even if you waste us , nicely  )
Yes I do learn under a Qualified Sifu lol He learnt from Ip Ching so i guess what I learn should be good, All about that Yu ma.

and i always thought this vid was pretty alright.


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## mook jong man (Sep 26, 2014)

dudewingchun said:


> Well you never know , some people practice martial arts there whole life and have never been in a fight once. But Im Only 20, I know alot of you would crush me in a second haha
> 
> Oh man , ill let him know haha. I mean they had power behind them.  But I will tell him that some guy on the net thought they were **** and to throw more violent ones next time. Btw like mook jong man said about head-shots, we avoid them when we spar cause its more detrimental.
> 
> ...



Dude wing chun are you doing much chi sau at all?
Because chi sau teaches you amongst other things to be aggressive , get in close and stay in close.
It also teaches the correct range for hitting.

Maybe you could teach your partner chi sau , and then start to have a bit of a play around trying to find the gaps and hit each other.
You will start to develop a good sense of your range , and will get to know what it feels like to hit in close from your optimum angle.

Make sure to stay relaxed and not use any brute strength.
Just play around like in this video here.

[video=youtube_share;djd3tb7fNfw]http://youtu.be/djd3tb7fNfw[/video]


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## wtxs (Sep 26, 2014)

dudewingchun said:


> Well you never know , some people practice martial arts there whole life and have never been in a fight once. But Im Only 20, I know alot of you would crush me in a second haha
> 
> Oh man , ill let him know haha. I mean they had power behind them.  But I will tell him that some guy on the net thought they were **** and to throw more violent ones next time. Btw like mook jong man said about head-shots, we avoid them when we spar cause its more detrimental.
> 
> ...



I question why you put up an video that's over 2 years old and not also one of most recent, that way we can see your progression and comment accordingly.

As to what is wrong with your partner's punches, let me count the ways ... lots of long range light jabs, I don't see any committed punches, ie no intent, no power, not using his body mass (need not to be there to see generation of power), in a way IMO just waving of arms, and yes the title of the video did say light sparing.

The mantra "you fight the way you train" holds true, unlike some of the b#tch-slapping "sparing", the video you posted above is in deed an good example of the kind of training and sparing.

You may be right in regards to high percentage of people had studied MA all their lives had never fought, but I not sure what kind of fighting you're referring to.  Martial art is not at all about fighting, it's about having the skill and conviction at hand when you do need to protect love ones and self.  The highest skill level and the hardest to learned in MA is how not to fight.

BTW I remember reading some where that Ip Chun had never got into a fight, possible his big brother Ip Ching also ... I'm saying being in fight(s) has little to do with your perception of skill.  Some people spend all their lives getting higher education with walls full of diplomas, but still is dumber than a box of rocks.


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## Argus (Sep 26, 2014)

wtxs said:


> I question why you put up an video that's over 2 years old and not also one of most recent, that way we can see your progression and comment accordingly.
> 
> As to what is wrong with your partner's punches, let me count the ways ... lots of long range light jabs, I don't see any committed punches, ie no intent, no power, not using his body mass (need not to be there to see generation of power), in a way IMO just waving of arms, and yes the title of the video did say light sparing.
> 
> ...



Actually, Ip Ching is said to have had a few fights.

While it isn't necessary to be a skilled practitioner, I do believe that fighting experience leads to a much more pragmatic understanding of the art. Just take Wong Shun Leung as an example. He started in boxing, moved to Wing Chun, and became heavily involved in bare-knuckle challenge matches. And as a result, cultivated what is, in my opinion, one of the most refined, straight-forward, and pragmatic takes on Wing Chun that you'll find.

Likewise, many other early students of Yip Man also refined their art in this manner, and to a varying degree, passed on what they learned to their students. But I think that, with each generation, a bit of understanding is lost when skills aren't put to the test in a realistic way. Students always like to focus on more advanced things, when, usually, perfecting the most bare bone basics are what make a good fighter.


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## Hong Kong Pooey (Sep 26, 2014)

dudewingchun said:


> and i always thought this vid was pretty alright.



Cheers, hadn't seen that one before. 

Shame about the crappy camerawork at the end though, he missed the best bit!


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## Hong Kong Pooey (Sep 26, 2014)

Hanzou said:


> The fact that the clinch happens so much in boxing should be indicative of how hard it is to stop.
> 
> Also it's pretty funny how you this fight ended on the ground.



You do realise that in a real fight the aim of pretty much every fighter regardless of style is to put his opponent on the ground? If so then it's not that funny at all.

Also according to the comments they'd been training in their respective styles for 1 & 3 months. It wasn't meant as a shining example of flawless WC technique, more as a demonstration of non-compliance and 2 guys actually trying to hit each other.


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## Hanzou (Sep 26, 2014)

Hong Kong Pooey said:


> You do realise that in a real fight the aim of pretty much every fighter regardless of style is to put his opponent on the ground? If so then it's not that funny at all.



Its funny because there's plenty of people out there who say that that isn't the case. It would be very interesting to see a Bjj exponent in that situation when the fight hit the ground.



> Also according to the comments they'd been training in their respective styles for 1 & 3 months. It wasn't meant as a shining example of flawless WC technique, more as a demonstration of non-compliance and 2 guys actually trying to hit each other.



Unfortunately, it looks like most WC I've seen when demonstrated at full speed and power against a resisting opponent.


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## mook jong man (Sep 26, 2014)

Hanzou said:


> Its funny because there's plenty of people out there who say that that isn't the case. It would be very interesting to see a Bjj exponent in that situation when the fight hit the ground.
> 
> 
> 
> Unfortunately, it looks like most WC I've seen when demonstrated at full speed and power against a resisting opponent.



Unfortunately , the only Wing Chun you have ever seen has been on friggin YouTube.


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## Hanzou (Sep 26, 2014)

mook jong man said:


> Unfortunately , the only Wing Chun you have ever seen has been on friggin YouTube.



Actually there was a local Wing Chun school in my area. I attended a couple of class in my youth.

The instructor turned out to be a total fraud and drug abuser and it was shutdown shortly thereafter.


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## mook jong man (Sep 26, 2014)

Hanzou said:


> Actually there was a local Wing Chun school in my area. I attended a couple of class in my youth.
> 
> The instructor turned out to be a total fraud and drug abuser and it was shutdown shortly thereafter.



And of course Bjj people have never been associated with criminal activities now have they?
Perish the thought , they're as pure as the driven snow.


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## Hanzou (Sep 26, 2014)

mook jong man said:


> And of course Bjj people have never been associated with criminal activities now have they?
> Perish the thought , they're as pure as the driven snow.



I never said that, but I will say that there's clearly a higher standard of quality control in Bjj than there is in WC. Probably because a Bjj black belt has a consistent and always present target on their back.


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## Mephisto (Sep 26, 2014)

mook jong man said:


> So I would expect that most Wing Chun people are intelligent like me , and do not fight at the mere drop of a hat , but tend to
> avoid trouble at all costs .
> 
> For that reason you are probably not likely to see footage of Wing Chun guys brawling in the street , we are the type that have already sensed the yobs at the other end of the bar getting loud and obnoxious , and thus have decided to leave and go to a more genteel venue a good half an hour before the fists and schooner glasses have started flying.
> ...



Seriously? You really think that all WC people are the same? And like you at that? You must be really self centered.


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## drop bear (Sep 26, 2014)

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9_3F6Zwbp9E


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## dudewingchun (Sep 26, 2014)

wtxs said:


> I question why you put up an video that's over 2 years old and not also one of most recent, that way we can see your progression and comment accordingly.
> 
> As to what is wrong with your partner's punches, let me count the ways ... lots of long range light jabs, I don't see any committed punches, ie no intent, no power, not using his body mass (need not to be there to see generation of power), in a way IMO just waving of arms, and yes the title of the video did say light sparing.
> 
> ...



Well the thing is , it is my most recent videos, Does anyone watch my second one? I want to know if the opinions are the same haha. mind if i link it?
Thank you for that , For the next one ill ask him to go 80 percent , not 50. And tell him all those comments.

I just mean like street fights, sparring full contact. Even organised street fights. 
I think you are right about Ip chun,But i remember my Sifu saying something about Ip Ching being in a fight or two.


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## drop bear (Sep 26, 2014)

dudewingchun said:


> Well the thing is , it is my most recent videos, Does anyone watch my second one? I want to know if the opinions are the same haha. mind if i link it?
> Thank you for that , For the next one ill ask him to go 80 percent , not 50. And tell him all those comments.
> 
> I just mean like street fights, sparring full contact. Even organised street fights.
> I think you are right about Ip chun,But i remember my Sifu saying something about Ip Ching being in a fight or two.




Tell him not to slip backwards. That just offends me.


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## mook jong man (Sep 27, 2014)

Mephisto said:


> Seriously? You really think that all WC people are the same? And like you at that? You must be really self centered.



When was your humour by-pass operation and how long have you been in recovery.


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## dudewingchun (Sep 27, 2014)

drop bear said:


> Tell him not to slip backwards. That just offends me.



Alright I will

I have decided to take down the videos. But I will keep making more until i die, Hopefully each one will get better and better. But I want them all to represent Wing Chun in a good way. So as soon as I can I will . until then I will just keep training my *** off, this has sparked my motivation to train alot. It makes me sad to see the art I love look like crap , and to have people ridicule it especially when i know it works.


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## mook jong man (Sep 27, 2014)

dudewingchun said:


> Alright I will
> 
> I have decided to take down the videos. But I will keep making more until i die, Hopefully each one will get better and better. But I want them all to represent Wing Chun in a good way. So as soon as I can I will . until then I will just keep training my *** off, this has sparked my motivation to train alot. It makes me sad to see the art I love look like crap , and to have people ridicule it especially when i know it works.



Mate , there are always going to be dickheads.
Don't train because you care about what dickheads think.

_*Train because you enjoy it.*_


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## Hanzou (Sep 27, 2014)

drop bear said:


> http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9_3F6Zwbp9E



Its important to note that several Wing Chun instructors said that Obasi wasn't doing "real Wing Chun".


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## Mephisto (Sep 27, 2014)

dudewingchun said:


> Alright I will
> 
> I have decided to take down the videos. But I will keep making more until i die, Hopefully each one will get better and better. But I want them all to represent Wing Chun in a good way. So as soon as I can I will . until then I will just keep training my *** off, this has sparked my motivation to train alot. It makes me sad to see the art I love look like crap , and to have people ridicule it especially when i know it works.



Make sure you partner continues to train to. Part of making a legitimate demonstration of an art or skill is to show it works on a closely matched opponent. You opponent looked pretty overwhelmed there. I'd also recommend getting some head gear, even the head gear with protection which will allow you to work elbows.


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## Hong Kong Pooey (Sep 27, 2014)

drop bear said:


> http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9_3F6Zwbp9E


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## dudewingchun (Sep 27, 2014)

Hong Kong Pooey said:


>



Imo any shawn obasi video is quite bad wing chun. Who did he learn off? does he even have like a proper sifu?

Hes one of the people that make Wing chun look bad, especially in the mma tryout video..  what you guys think?


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