# Seeking Magical Scroll of easy wisdom!



## Nabakatsu (Mar 8, 2009)

So... here we are again.. I would like to talk about structure!
I've been trying to keep all my muscles relaxed whilst doing SNT but.. I can't even lift my arm a fraction of an inch without it stiffening.. I'm lifting it as lightly as I feel I can.. I'm curious to know who hear has made progress relaxing and what they feel is responsible for this progress.. I find it impossible to maintain trying to execute the movements properly, keeping my arms as relaxed as I can for now, anddddd having forward thought/intent all at the same time, sinking down with my legs and adducting seems to get lost in the process after awhile as well.. I may start putting an apple back between my legs or.. maybe I'll do as yoshi suggested and get an egg.. who the heck wants to clean up 20 eggs a day, the potential negative karama alone is certainly something i'd prefer to avoid 
So yeah.. this horse has some life left in it I say!


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## mook jong man (Mar 8, 2009)

Unfortunately mate there is no shortcuts only hardwork , sweat and sometimes blood . But if you do find one let me know will you.

 You have already made a big step forward anyway because you are aware of the tension in your muscles , a lot of people are not even aware that they are tense , at least you can recognise it .

  There are degrees of relaxation , I'm more relaxed than a beginner , my instructors were more relaxed than me. You just have to keep doing the SLT form and consciously trying to will them to relax , maybe each time you do the form concentrate on a different muscle group .

 Say for example next time I do the form I will concentrate on just relaxing the shoulders , the time after that I might just concentrate on relaxing the thighs , you get the idea .

 Just let the meat hang off the bones , don't let the movements get too floppy though , they still have to be done as correct as possible. One thing I used to do sometimes was to tense the particular muscle group on purpose as hard as I could so I could feel what extremely tense feels like . 

Sometimes you have to do things the wrong way so that you can recognise what the right way feels like . Just for kicks , tense your whole arm and shoulder as much as you can , now try and throw a fast punch . See how slow it is , how much energy it takes , and most importantly recognise what it feels like .

 Now shake your arm out for a couple of seconds till it is reasonably relaxed and go back to doing it the proper way , feel how free and easy the proper way feels , now try and recognise that feeling and capture it in your mind.

 After some time you will even be able to recognise different degrees of relaxation in your limbs , for example my right arm is more tense and slower than my left arm , I have had this problem for years and I'm still trying to correct it .

 There are a couple of exercises you can do apart from SLT , they are mostly for the shoulders. You can do the chicken wing exercise , bend your arms like chicken wings , put your finger tips touching your upper pecs near your shoulders and start doing big circles with the points of your elbows , do them clockwise and anti clockwise as relaxed as you can , try to get the feeling of having no friction in your shoulder joints.

Now let your arms hang down limp but in the optimum angle , make small circles with the points of your elbows , now bigger circles , now circle the other direction . Visualise no friction in the joint , and no real effort required to move your arms , its just the momentum that keeps them going.

Next extend your arm out in front of you and start doing circles with your arm , then back the other way, in the same manner you did the above exercises.

 Oh I forgot there is one more , start of with your hands down by your side in the optimum angle ( angle of your Tan Sau) then swing your arm up till your hand is a little bit higher than head height , then let it fall down again under its own weight , keep doing it ,don't force the movement stay relaxed and let the momentum move the arm. 

 Make sure you do all of these exercises in your stance , I can tell when my muscles have reached a certain state of relaxation because my arms will feel slightly heavy and I just feel very fast. I would do these exercise a couple of times a week before I did SLT or chi sau

We had to do these exercises for about 10 minutes before an instructors class with my Sifu.


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## Nabakatsu (Mar 9, 2009)

Thanks much mook, I will give those exercises a shot right now before doing some SNT, the shoulders seem to be the hardest thing for me to relax as of now, at least for the upper body, relaxing my thighs seems an impossible task, sifu tells me my knees need to be a fist differance apart and... just seems next to impossible to relax my thighs, those babies are rock solid no matter how hard I try.. practice practice practice!


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## mook jong man (Mar 9, 2009)

Nabakatsu said:


> Thanks much mook, I will give those exercises a shot right now before doing some SNT, the shoulders seem to be the hardest thing for me to relax as of now, at least for the upper body, relaxing my thighs seems an impossible task, sifu tells me my knees need to be a fist differance apart and... just seems next to impossible to relax my thighs, those babies are rock solid no matter how hard I try.. practice practice practice!


 
Are you serious about having your knees one fist distance apart .
I don't want to contradict your Sifu , different lineages and all that jazz.
But I just did what you described and my thighs tensed up like a rock too. In our lineage the stance is shoulder width apart , toes and knees pointing towards the centreline . 

There is a slight gripping action of the toes like a bird on a perch this is believed to increase the surface area of the foot and improve the stability of the stance . But there is no tension in the thighs and the knees are not forced to try and come close together , you just sink down and relax.
Is this the adduction thing what you lot keep talking about ?

Oh well you better do what your Sifu says then , I'll take the high road and you'll take the low road and I'll be in Scotland before ye .


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## Nabakatsu (Mar 9, 2009)

Aye, I was watching videos of that tony bloke who does the seminars out there and his beliefs on structure are so vastly different from ours.. the knees adapt the natural bend and such, our stance is pretty much the same, it seems we deter in that we push our thighs together until the point of which our fist can barely fit between our knees, we try to sink down a fair amount, toes inward at about a 45 degree angle.. my sifu never mentioned anything about gripping the ground with the toes, but I always do anyways, just feels so much more stable.. and yeah.. back straight, I don't recall them ever mentioning a slight contraction of the anus, but I do that too anyways.. just feels so much more unifying.. Sifu Emin describes it as being tensed in a relaxed way.. I think the concept is similar to forward pressure of the arms, supposed to enable us to jump into the fray that much faster I guess, as well as a connected feeling between the knees to create more stability.. 
I'm sure i'm missing a few of the finer details and perhaps even mis-worded a few things, but thats my understanding in a nutshell


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## mook jong man (Mar 9, 2009)

Nabakatsu said:


> Aye, I was watching videos of that tony bloke who does the seminars out there and his beliefs on structure are so vastly different from ours.. the knees adapt the natural bend and such, our stance is pretty much the same, it seems we deter in that we push our thighs together until the point of which our fist can barely fit between our knees, we try to sink down a fair amount, toes inward at about a 45 degree angle.. my sifu never mentioned anything about gripping the ground with the toes, but I always do anyways, just feels so much more stable.. and yeah.. back straight, I don't recall them ever mentioning a slight contraction of the anus, but I do that too anyways.. just feels so much more unifying.. Sifu Emin describes it as being tensed in a relaxed way.. I think the concept is similar to forward pressure of the arms, supposed to enable us to jump into the fray that much faster I guess, as well as a connected feeling between the knees to create more stability..
> I'm sure i'm missing a few of the finer details and perhaps even mis-worded a few things, but thats my understanding in a nutshell


 
No worries , its just differences between lineages , its all good. But if you are going to adopt some of our methods . Then I will tell you the right way to do it . Don't grip very hard with the toes , just a slight pressure is enough. 

Tei Gong ( internal contraction) requires a hell of a lot of mental discipline to maintain.

Again it is only a slight drawing up of the muscles surrounding the anus , it should be activated any time you are in your stance . As you sink down do the Tei Gong and imagine your spine and head being drawn upwards . The Tei Gong contraction locks the upper and lower body together as one unit it also relaxes the thighs and gets them ready for action .

 One thing you have to remember though if you sink down to far it will hinder your mobility and your weight will be transferred to the front of your foot and you will be susceptible to being pulled forward , as a general rule in our lineage when you look down your knees should be just over your toes .

 But everybodies physiology is slightly different so usually through practice of SLT , pivoting and chi sau the individual will arrive at their own level of being sunk down , a level where they can still move speedily and yet be extremely stable.


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## Nabakatsu (Mar 9, 2009)

Thanks for the pointers, and proper spelling of tei gong!
I'm a little bit flat footed, so I have been gripping the ground for dear life! lol
I'll try and slack it up a bit tho, I bet I can get somebody to give me a little tug every once in a while around the house to see how easily I lose my root, that should prove interesting.


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## mook jong man (Mar 9, 2009)

Nabakatsu said:


> Thanks for the pointers, and proper spelling of tei gong!
> I'm a little bit flat footed, so I have been gripping the ground for dear life! lol
> I'll try and slack it up a bit tho, I bet I can get somebody to give me a little tug every once in a while around the house to see how easily I lose my root, that should prove interesting.


 
You can test your stance by having someone apply pressure from the front sides and back.


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## profesormental (Mar 9, 2009)

Greetings.

In my experience, "relaxation" in the case of doing the forms comes from "effortless" movement, and not from actually being completely relaxed... the musculature that doesn't have to be involved is the relaxed part.

This comes from repetition and from the body determining that the movements are optimal, so it doesn't have to use that much muscular effort. 

Interestingly enough, even though you're using less muscle effort, it is the effort needed for the body to be structurally sound for the amount and direction of pressure load that it is supposed to handle.

In the beginning, you have to put the body in the geometrical structure prescribed. And you have to put some effort. Then the body realizes that the geometry practiced is comfortable, easy to establish and structurally sound, in the form and in Chi Sao and partner drill practice.

So the form helps, yet the load from partner drills and dummy drills helps cement this structure, since the feedback allows the body to realize this much faster.

Hope this helps.

Juan M. Mercado


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## geezer (Mar 9, 2009)

mook jong man said:


> No worries , its just differences between lineages , its all good. But if you are going to adopt some of our methods . Then I will tell you the right way to do it . Don't grip very hard with the toes , just a slight pressure is enough.


 
In the WT system, as I learned it, we did grip lightly with the toes, exactly as you described, _Mook._ But, also, as _Nabakatsu _mentions, our stance in SNT involved adducting, or squeezing, the thighs together while at the same time tucking the pelvis forward under the spine and clenching the buttocks a bit. The opposition of these two movements creates a light, springy tension in the legs... a sort of gentle isometric which can seem a bit taxing if you do the form slowly. But it builds up adduction strength of the thighs which we use extensively in all our stances and steps (in the WT lineage).


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## punisher73 (Mar 9, 2009)

Nabakatsu said:


> So... here we are again.. I would like to talk about structure!
> I've been trying to keep all my muscles relaxed whilst doing SNT but.. I can't even lift my arm a fraction of an inch without it stiffening.. I'm lifting it as lightly as I feel I can.. I'm curious to know who hear has made progress relaxing and what they feel is responsible for this progress.. I find it impossible to maintain trying to execute the movements properly, keeping my arms as relaxed as I can for now, anddddd having forward thought/intent all at the same time, sinking down with my legs and adducting seems to get lost in the process after awhile as well.. I may start putting an apple back between my legs or.. maybe I'll do as yoshi suggested and get an egg.. who the heck wants to clean up 20 eggs a day, the potential negative karama alone is certainly something i'd prefer to avoid
> So yeah.. this horse has some life left in it I say!


 
A muscle cannot move without tension.  This is a misnomer that you can be "totally relaxed".  You can, but you are going to be laying down on the ground.  What you are actually striving for is moving in a way that only the muscles that need to be firing are doing so.

Here is a simple experiment to try.  Wing Chun relies heavily on centerline movement.  Keep you elbow close to your body and lift your arm and with the other hand feel your deltiod muscle.  The anterior (front) deltiod is resonsible for that action.  Now move your elbow _slightly_ away from your body and lift it.  You will now feel both the medial (side) and anterior (front) of the deltiod tensing.  This is because the side portion of the deltiod is resposible for lifting the arm laterally, or to the side.  On a centerline punch, what is the action?  It is straight forward, so you would need to make sure that the elbow/arm does not come away from the body and engage the side portion of the delt.

Now start to do this mental checklist when you do your forms.  Also, the more reps you do, the smoother the process becomes because your mind/body knows what to do and won't engage things that don't need to be (which is why beginning movement is so jerky...they brain is trying to run a new program and is engaging far more things than it needs to).


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## mook jong man (Mar 9, 2009)

geezer said:


> In the WT system, as I learned it, we did grip lightly with the toes, exactly as you described, _Mook._ But, also, as _Nabakatsu _mentions, our stance in SNT involved adducting, or squeezing, the thighs together while at the same time tucking the pelvis forward under the spine and clenching the buttocks a bit. The opposition of these two movements creates a light, springy tension in the legs... a sort of gentle isometric which can seem a bit taxing if you do the form slowly. But it builds up adduction strength of the thighs which we use extensively in all our stances and steps (in the WT lineage).


 
Yeah I think there is a picture of GM LT in his book demonstrating his adduction strength by having some guys on either side of him with ropes tyed to his legs and they are trying to pull them apart.


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## Nabakatsu (Mar 9, 2009)

Thanks for all your support and good advice, tis quite appreciated good sirs!


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## AceHBK (Mar 9, 2009)

Geezer told me to masterbate before class a the best way to relax.

I opted for calling my girlfriend to come by before I left for class.


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## Nabakatsu (Mar 9, 2009)

I'm going shaolin style on this one baby, storing my sexual energy to retain my insane level of sexual tension/testosterone. Than I will let it fuse into my center and flow accordingly throughout my body bringing about a quiet state of peace and relaxation, with an insanity streak just around the corner.


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## seasoned (Mar 9, 2009)

Nabakatsu said:


> I can't even *lift* my arm a fraction of an inch without it stiffening..* I'm lifting* it as lightly as I feel I can.. !


 Stop trying to lift your arms, relax to your center and take your mind off your arms. Move from your center. No one can teach a feeling, you have to feel it for yourself.


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## geezer (Mar 9, 2009)

AceHBK said:


> Geezer told me to...


 
I'm shocked and apalled, _Ace_. I said *no* such thing, and if that's the way you carry on, I would never dare practice _sticky-hands_ with you! Now go wash up.


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## mook jong man (Mar 9, 2009)

AceHBK said:


> Geezer told me to masterbate before class a the best way to relax.
> 
> I opted for calling my girlfriend to come by before I left for class.


 
You want to make sure your chi sau is top notch , because you are going to need it when you go blind .


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## AceHBK (Mar 9, 2009)

LMAO @ GEEZER @ MOOK

:rofl:


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## Nabakatsu (Mar 9, 2009)

TY seasoned, you are very true, that was a very wing chun like response!
I am.. beyond words as to the rest of you gentlemen.. -shakes head in dissapointment-


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## seasoned (Mar 10, 2009)

Nabakatsu said:


> TY seasoned, you are very true, that was a very wing chun like response!
> I am.. beyond words as to the rest of you gentlemen.. -shakes head in dissapointment-


Thanks, you guys seem to have so much fun over here. I like hanging here once in a while.


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## Si-Je (Mar 10, 2009)

Ya'll are so naughty! lol!

I think what may help you "relax" in your movements in Si Lim Tao may be to focus on flowing from one movement to the other.  Say when you do tan sau to (what we call chit sau) and back to tan sau, flow each movement from the other. Don't stop in between movements to much.

I've seen a couple of WC/WT stylists do SLT form where they kinda "jerk" from one movement to the other to "accentuate" each separate movement from the next.  But, I've found that if you just flow from one technique to the other you'll be more relaxed in your movements.  Your structure will come because your going slow.
Focus on flowing from one to the next movement. (and yes, your going to be using some muscle strength to actually lift your arm.  But, don't get hung up on that. It just doesn't take alot of physical strength to lift your arm up in the air and move it around.     I try to keep WC/WT simple because well, it is simple.)

We had a couple of guys that studied Wing Tzun for a long time come in and when they did the form they focused more on (what seemed like to me) kinda "jerking" from one technique to the other.  I guess to focus on forward pressure or accuentate each movement. 
Not that this is wrong or anything, I just have noticed it does make them more "tense" when doing the form. And we do the form differently.  
See how this Sigung does the form.  It's so slow!!! And only 3 and a half minutes, but it seems so much more slow than that! lol!  We do the first part really, really, reaeeeeally slow.   That's your chi building section, by the way.  internal energy and forward though force come from the first part of the form, as I've been taught.  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNX8VG_t6to

When each movement is completed focus on already beginning the next movement to flow to.  Don't "stop" for each specific movement. (yes, you still kinda focus on accentuating between techniques just 'softer") Flow from one to the other.

Forward thought "force" is a mindset. You just "think" forward, even when your movements are coming back to the centerline.  Even whey your moving backward with hands or stance your intent is still forward. No movement from your body will actually improve this.  Your working with "intent". Like a spring that is always "loaded" or "coiled" ready to spring. 
It's just weird at first.  I just litterally think the word "forward" over and over in my head when I do the form, application, or even sparring. This silences everything else my mind would want to bother me with and allows me to utilize true forward pressure and spring energy.  
But, that just helps me.  It might be a different thing for someone else.

As for the "abduction" well, from reading ya'lls posts, I may be doing it wrong. lol! We focus on major tension in the legs, and butt. We don't bring the knees together so close as a fist distance away.  But we really focus on keeping alot of tension in the legs and butt, while keeping the upper body "loose and relaxed". (kinda makes me think of the movie Kill Bill vol. 2 when she meets Pai Mai and she spars him and tries to kick him in the nuts.. remember?  He was in Basic SLT stance and when she kicked then he brought the knees closer together to catch her foot when she tried to rack him.  like a "block".  a fist distance away.  That would be a great way to demonstrate when you actually use the stance in that position.)  But anyways... lol!  (I love that stupid movie!)

One drill you could do for stance... and I think it would help you not be too tense but keep the right amount of tension in your stance at the same time.....

You could use a children's ball, get one at a dollar store.  One of those little rubber balls about 6 inches in diameter, (ya know, like with spiderman on it or something. lol!) 
...and put that between your theighs just above the knee. If you squeeze too hard the soft rubber ball will kinda "sqwish" out from your legs. If your too light it will eventually drop.  Sometimes we use a volleyball, but I've found that the softer kids rubber balls are better. 

But, here's a different spin on using a ball....

Try to walk in stance while keeping the ball between your knees.  I used to have a kids class where we had "ball races".  Where the kids had to try to "run" from one wall to the other while keeping the ball between their legs in a race.  If it dropped they had to stop and start over from the exact place where it dropped.  This kept them from "cheating". Kiddos loved it, and it was a good way to "trick" them into doing stancework. 
But, I found out that their stances ended up being better than the adults because of this game, and more "versitile" when sparring. So, if you can get an adult to "play with a ball" when training stance you'll get a better stance.
I'd have them do this when chainpunching the moving bags and focus mits too.  That way they got used to ALWAYS using abduction when applying Wing Chun application and sparring.  

If you can turn, pivot, and step in SLT basic stance while punching and keeping the ball between your legs then you'll keep your "structure" in a pinch, or a fight.  And soon, you won't even have to think about it either.
Sifu Hubbie tells me that when he trained with GM Fung that he'd make them litterally run around in SLT stance like jogging in a way. Try running in SLT stance for a considerable distance and see how it makes your legs feel.  Then see how you use the stance when sparring or doing WT application.  It will become more of a natural way to stand for you, and you can focus more on your hand work without thinking so much on the two at the same time.  
Hope that helps.  Little wordy. Sorry.


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## Nabakatsu (Mar 10, 2009)

Amazing post there Si-Je! you always come through in that respect, always give as much as ya can with true good intentions, jogging in SNT stance.. now that sounds like an interesting idea! I liked the video too, trying to flow my techniques more could certainly assist the situation, I try to feel my forward intent, like something coming out of my stomache area, almost like tentacles, tentacles.. that are making my energy body move out of me kind of, it's a weird sensation, I may have to give "forward forward forward" a shot sometime here 
Thanks for sharing!


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## koenig (Mar 10, 2009)

Physiologically speaking it's not possible to move without muscular tension, so I think the whole thing i just meant to be a metaphor.

Traditional brainwashed MAists always say things like "move with your tendons, not your muscles" etc.  It's gotta be meant to not be taken literally because tendons can't contract.

They just mean don't muscle the heck out of every technique.


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## Si-Je (Mar 10, 2009)

Nabakatsu said:


> Amazing post there Si-Je! you always come through in that respect, always give as much as ya can with true good intentions, jogging in SNT stance.. now that sounds like an interesting idea! I liked the video too, trying to flow my techniques more could certainly assist the situation, I try to feel my forward intent, like something coming out of my stomache area, almost like tentacles, tentacles.. that are making my energy body move out of me kind of, it's a weird sensation, I may have to give "forward forward forward" a shot sometime here
> Thanks for sharing!


 
Yes! tentacles! lol!
That will work.
totally out of your stomache area, that's where your chi comes from.  Don't listen to those people that tell you to fear that. It's your energy. You won't hurt yourself...
It's your energy. you send it forward and with your intention you a bad ***... 
done deal.
watch those vids about that tony guy from Sifu Fung's lineage and play with the idea. 
I actually made a 300 lb. guy fall to his knees just because I mimicked one of Tony's movements, to break the structure of his body. 
It wouldn't have worked if Sifu Hubbie didn't train me before I watched the video, but, I'll tell you.  It does work!
You don't have to punch the hell out of them. you can defeat them differently.
help me out Mook !! you know what I'm talking about!
It does work I don't care if you guys call it hokey.
You go ahead and make sure your really really strong, and I'll make sure I understand energy and chi and wing chun. You can be strong, but I'll deflect it, because that's what I'm trained to do.. ha!
Your on the right track. your so close it's not even funny! 
Take your time and train with Sifu.  He will show you.
You can do all the push ups you want or whatever, but when it comes to WC/WT, you'll find you don't need it.


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## mook jong man (Mar 10, 2009)

Si-Je said:


> Ya'll are so naughty! lol!
> 
> I think what may help you "relax" in your movements in Si Lim Tao may be to focus on flowing from one movement to the other. Say when you do tan sau to (what we call chit sau) and back to tan sau, flow each movement from the other. Don't stop in between movements to much.
> 
> ...


 
Si-je you are right , in my lineage which is headed by the man in the video who was my master's master . We always do the forms in a relaxed way , as you said flowing from one move to the other . We were told to not have gaps between the movements just a continuous flow of relaxed movement.

 Have I told ya's about the time when Sigung Tsui came to Sydney to visit my master , and I was only in grade two at the time and never met him before . He was just a photo up on the wall with Yip Man that we had to bow to after each training session as a mark of respect .

 Well apparently Sigung likes to go on big long walks every morning where ever he is. By coincidence I had to attend a course in the city for my job , so I get in their pretty early and decide to have a cup of java at Mcdonalds , I finish my coffee and start walking up one of the main streets in Sydney to where the course was held .

 I'm pretty much still half asleep because Macca's coffee is crap , as I'm walking I look up into the distance and I see a rather skinny old chinese gentlemen browsing in the shop windows . I thought to myself gee that old guys got good posture , his back was totally straight , you know how old people get that bent over look when they get old , well he didn't have that.

 When I got closer It suddenly dawned on me , holy crap thats the guy on the wall , thats Sigung. I was so excited I went up and yelled out SIGUNG , he was startled and turned around . For a split second I thought I was going to die , the look in his eyes turned me to ice . I started to panic , oh my God he thinks I'm a nutter and about to attack him.

 I start gibbering away to him and he doesn't understand because he speaks cantonese , so I start waving my arms around in a frantic attempt at mimicing chi sau and said " I umm...... train....." and I start pointing towards the other side of the city  " Umm ..... me train down there ...... at Sifu Jim place". 

His face lit up and a big smile broke across his face and he started laughing. By this time I was going to be late for my course if I didn't get a move on , so I shook his hand and said goodbye. I would have liked to have stayed with him , but he couldn't understand me and I couldn't understand him , it would have been great if I could speak cantonese .

 I would have ditched the stupid course and we could have talked Wing Chun all the way back to the school which would have taken the best part of an hour. But what a great hour that would of been .


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## Nabakatsu (Mar 11, 2009)

What a story man! I was about to miss a game I've been in line for, for a good 45 minutes to finish reading it I was so captivated 
Sounds like one of those rare golden moments that only ever happen so often
Sounds like I'd be able to have a good laugh about that if it happened to me for the rest of my life, A dai sifu of wing chun ready to bounce on ya, and a hurried frantic (so it sounded from the description) attempt at explaining yourself so as not to get mauled.
Thanks for the read


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## Si-Je (Mar 11, 2009)

That's so cool Mook! Ever thought of learning Cantonese?  It seems that those fellas come over to your school pretty often from the videos that are posted online.

I posted his Si Lim Tao, because we do that SLT and that's how hubbie taught me to flow in SLT.  Well, and because I think I like the way he does it the best I've seen online or elsewhere.  Probably because it's the way I've been taught, I know  but he flows more than some others I've seen.

Lol! your story was so cute! He might have just heel kicked you in the nads!  It's always fun to communicate by playing charades.    Too cool to have been able to meet him and see him at the school.


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## mook jong man (Mar 12, 2009)

Si-Je said:


> That's so cool Mook! Ever thought of learning Cantonese? It seems that those fellas come over to your school pretty often from the videos that are posted online.
> 
> I posted his Si Lim Tao, because we do that SLT and that's how hubbie taught me to flow in SLT. Well, and because I think I like the way he does it the best I've seen online or elsewhere. Probably because it's the way I've been taught, I know  but he flows more than some others I've seen.
> 
> Lol! your story was so cute! He might have just heel kicked you in the nads!  It's always fun to communicate by playing charades.  Too cool to have been able to meet him and see him at the school.


 
I only know a couple of words , I can count to 10 , and the word for relax is fong sung or something like that . I haven't had much contact with anybody from the school since we parted ways , but I will always have a place in my heart for Sigung . 

After that little episode I saw him many times at the school when I had become an instructor , he was there one day having a snooze in the chair obviously still jet lagged from his trip over when I come in but he woke up and started watching me when I was teaching some students a particular kick , I was nervous I thought he might think I was teaching it wrong , but he didn't come over , so It must of been okay. 

He's like a kindly old grandfather he loves his students like they are his children , I remember that one of the Aussie guys went to Hong Kong for a week to train at Sigungs school , and the chi sau training is long and intensive and the Aussie guy hurt his back , well he wasn't going to let a little thing like back pain stop him from training at Sigungs school .

 So he turned up at the school the next day , Sigung greeted him and handed him a one of those back brace things you get from the pharmacy . Sigung had gone out and bought it for him out of his own money , and I've heard other stories about when people go to give him an envelope each month with their fees in it , he takes a bit of the cash out and gives it back to them and says this is too much .

 He is just from another time when people were more considerate , and had moral fibre. I wish I was back at the school sometimes but too much water has passed under the bridge . Now that Sifu Jim has passed on and because he was Sigungs top student , Sigung has taken over and flys over from Hong Kong every three months or so to teach the chief instructors and make sure the standard is upheld . 

And Instructor Tony and Instructor Albert (he's another high ranking guy) they run the Adelaide school which is in another state , so it looks like they visit the Sydney school as well to keep the standard up and to meet up with Sigung so that he doesn't have to go flying all around Australia to train different people.


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## Si-Je (Mar 12, 2009)

I'm glad that they're carring on Sifu Fungs teachings there and it seems he had alot of good folks to pass on WC to.

Sigung sounds like a awesome person.  I noticed Sifu Fung just seemed like a humble nice sweet guy.  From his videos, his demeanor, and from what Hubbie tells me about him.  I always wanted to go out there and train there with him but it's just too costly for us.
But hubbie got to train with him for like 4 years so that's good.

Sorry to hear about Sifu, at least he has a great lineage and wonderful legacy to pass on. That's more than most of us could hope for. 

Are you still training these days?


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## Ben Grimm (Mar 12, 2009)

Sifu Fung was somebody that I would have liked to have trained with. When I'm back in Australia, I'll visit one of his schools. I do know of his tragic passing. It was and still is a blow to Wing Chun, but I'm sure that he has a strong successor that can pass on his effective teachings. Cantonese is not easy to learn. It has 9 tones. I can speak it because my wife is Cantonese. It took me a good 2 years to become proficient, and that was speaking it every day. So it will take time, just like SNT.


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## mook jong man (Mar 12, 2009)

Si-Je said:


> I'm glad that they're carring on Sifu Fungs teachings there and it seems he had alot of good folks to pass on WC to.
> 
> Sigung sounds like a awesome person. I noticed Sifu Fung just seemed like a humble nice sweet guy. From his videos, his demeanor, and from what Hubbie tells me about him. I always wanted to go out there and train there with him but it's just too costly for us.
> But hubbie got to train with him for like 4 years so that's good.
> ...


 
Sifu Jim was a good guy , he had his faults though like all of us . Actually I used to teach his son , when he was about 7 years old . The kid spent more time on the ground doing push ups than anything else , because he was naughty .

 I remember Sifu Jim saying that I have to be hard on his kid and don't go easy on him because he is his son. He's grown into a young man now , and from what clips I've seen he has kept up his training .

Up until about 2 years ago I was  into the sticks , and knife fighting as well as training in WC with a group of friends who were former students , but then people moved , got married , had falling outs etc. 

But then I developed two hernias from lifting heavy stuff at work , had a operation was out of action for a while. Then we had financial troubles , and I couldn't afford to study with the Phillipino master anymore yada yada yada.

 So these days I teach my wife , and mostly do a lot of solo training. I paid a lot of money over the years to learn Wing Chun and I'll be damned If I'm just going to stop and forget it all .

 But things maybe looking up , I have started training a private student who lives nearby , he heard me training in the backyard and poked his head over and said do I teach and I said I haven't taught for years but if he really wants to learn I will teach him .

 We settled on the fee of 30 bucks for an hour and a half , and I taught him the next day , he's a good kid and eager to learn. His father told him to ask me because his dad thinks I'm a master lol , I told his dad that I'm no master but I am good enough to teach his son.

 I'm just waiting for him to come back from a trip to Hong Kong to visit his relatives and then we will pick up where we left off.

 Although he is paying me to learn , other than the money which is good , I have to teach to maintain my standard and so that I don't forget everything I learned . He says that he has other friends that would like to learn as well , so hopefully I will teach them and we can get a little training group together . 

This is a bit how Sifu Jim started in the 70's when he first came to Australia , he only started teaching because he had no one to train with and he thought his skills would decline so he started teaching people in his garage ,and from there it grew to 2 massive academys in Sydney and Adelaide and many suburban branches. 

But me , my ambitions are far more modest , just a small group to teach and train with would be great , no politics or bs just hard training.


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## geezer (Mar 13, 2009)

mook jong man said:


> But me , my ambitions are far more modest , just a small group to teach and train with would be great , no politics or bs just hard training.



Me too.


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