# What is "Bushido?"



## Bob Hubbard (May 1, 2005)

Literally defined at "[size=-1]the way of the warrior (samurai), a term applied to the principles of loyalty and honor; a code of stoic endurance, scorn of danger and death, religious worship of country and sovereign, and proper social relationships; an aesthetic life- style." the term is referenced repeatedly in countless arts.

 But, what is it really?

 Is it strictly "Japanese", or is it a universal ideal?

 What truely is the Way of the Warrior?
 [/size]


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## Tgace (May 1, 2005)

"Bushido" as a term is strictly Japanese...heres a good definition.

Read the Budoshoshinshu and the Hagakure to get an understanding of Japanese Bushido. 

As an "idea" I guess you can compare it to various other warrior traditions like Chivalry, but Bushido is an animal all its own.


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## RRouuselot (May 1, 2005)

Here is a good book review by Meik Skoss found at koryu.com



   Charles Tuttle has reprinted a 1941 translation done by A.L. Sadler of the _Budo Shoshinshu_ of Daidoji Yuzan and titled it _The Code of the Samurai_. It is a collection of precepts for members of the warrior class and, like _Hagakure_, helped form much of the thought of the _bushi_ of the Edo period. It is a much more agreeable text than _Hagakure_, to my way of thinking, and well worth reading. Another book deserving study is _The Way of the Sword: The Tengu Geijutsuron of Chozan Shissai_. It was originally translated into German by Reinhard Kammer and then into English by Betty J. Fitzgerald. The copy I have is from Arkana.


 another good review


http://www.koryubooks.com/store/samuraicode.html


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## ShadowKnight (May 1, 2005)

As mentioned above, the actual term "Bushido" is a strictly Japanese term. Although its concept and ideas dont need to be applied only to Japan. 

Most regions have had their own "Warriors" with their own ideals and concepts of loyalty, honor, service to their land and people.

Anyone can follow a similar path in life and they can call that which they practice what they wish. 

IMO, the American nation is infected with this idea of being "gangsta." I personally detest the idea of a person having to prove himself by putting others down and trying to portray a "tough persona."

This is evident in competative events such as sports and in the mainstream media. 

In my Senior Survey class (I am a senior in high school), we studied the behaviours of Males in the US and the image they try to put out. I know what I am saying seems off topic but this is mearly to prove my point.

The times now, which are controlled by the media have corrupted people into thinking that by acting tough, a person will gain more respect.

This is entirely rediculous and proves that things such as chivalry and bushido no longer exist in this world. These are concepts which seem to have died out with the warriors of our past. Concepts which can only be read about in books or seen in movies. If there are people who do follow this, they are few and far between. 

Maybe, bushido has become something that only someone who truly believes in it, can pass down to a new generation and hope they dont fall into this trap the media puts out. So that they can live a more satisfying life.


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## Tgace (May 1, 2005)

Perhaps the root of most writings you will find on bushido.



> The man who would be a warrior considers it his most basic intention to keep death always in mind, day and night, from the time he first picks up his chopsticks in celebrating his morning meal on New Year's Day to the evening of the last day of the year. When one constantly keeps death in mind, both loyalty and filial piety are realized, myriad evils and disasters are avoided, one is without illness and mishap, and lives out a long life. In addition, even his character is improved. Such are the many benefits of this act.


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## Tgace (May 1, 2005)

*BUSHIDO*
The Soul of Japan

An Exposition of Japanese Thought
by Inazo Nitobe


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## BruceCalkins (May 1, 2005)

For someone to claim that Bushido is strickly Japanese is like claiming that the 10 commandments are only Christian. 

Just because something came from somewhere or is tied to a culture doesn't mean that it stickly belongs to them. The Warriors of Old Nipon and New Japan both embrace Bushido. But I am Not Christian and Not Japanese... But I still follow 90% of the 10 Commandments and I try to Live my life through the Bushido Code. 8 Codes that build a Stong Person Not just a Strong Warrior.


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## Tgace (May 1, 2005)

You are confusing origin with practitioners. I dont have to be Jewish to practice Judaism.....Bushido, as a code, is as Japanese as the Katana. However I dont have to be Japanese to practice Iaido.

As a "Warrior Code", Bushido is no more peculiar to Japan than Chivalry was to Europe. However Bushido developed in Japan with the Samurai and has different roots and branches than Chivalry. Much as you can say that Christianity, Islam and Judaism have common roots, but developed into different systems.


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## RRouuselot (May 1, 2005)

SokeCalkins said:
			
		

> 1)For someone to claim that Bushido is strickly Japanese is like claiming that the 10 commandments are only Christian.
> 
> Just because something came from somewhere or is tied to a culture doesn't mean that it stickly belongs to them.
> 
> 2)The Warriors of Old Nipon and New Japan both embrace Bushido. But I am Not Christian and Not Japanese... But I still follow 90% of the 10 Commandments and I try to Live my life through the Bushido Code. 8 Codes that build a Stong Person Not just a Strong Warrior.


    1)Buddhists practice the 10 commandments? 

    2)In new Japan they embrace it? Coming from someone that lives and trains here I think you need a reality check


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## evenflow1121 (May 1, 2005)

As a word, its origin is Japanese, but the philosophy could prob be embraced by anyone.

Your last question is very intriguing but very hard to answer: Ive been in the martial arts for 22 yrs of my life but I am still trying to figure out the meaning of that word.  It has to be more than knowing how to fight, being a warrior imho is something many feel that they are, but very few in actuality ever will be.


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## Rich Parsons (May 1, 2005)

RRouuselot said:
			
		

> 1)Buddhists practice the 10 commandments?
> 
> 2)In new Japan they embrace it? Coming from someone that lives and trains here I think you need a reality check



When I spent some time, not much time, a week here, two weeks there, I did not see the general public embracing Bushido. To the point I could not even get an introduction to the lcoal instructors as most did not even know with whom to talk too. 

Just my experience with Japan.


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## RRouuselot (May 1, 2005)

Rich Parsons said:
			
		

> When I spent some time, not much time, a week here, two weeks there, I did not see the general public embracing Bushido. To the point I could not even get an introduction to the lcoal instructors as most did not even know with whom to talk too.
> 
> Just my experience with Japan.


 Its amazing how little your average Japanese guy on the street knows about any Japanese MA or the concepts there in ..ask them about Anime and you might get a more insightful reply.


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## Rich Parsons (May 1, 2005)

RRouuselot said:
			
		

> Its amazing how little your average guy on the street knows about any MA in Japan..ask them about Anime and you might get a more insightful reply.



Very True.


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## Tgace (May 1, 2005)

Try asking an American kid who won the Civil War....


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## Bob Hubbard (May 1, 2005)

Tgace said:
			
		

> Try asking an American kid who won the Civil War....


 Umm.... The West?


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## RRouuselot (May 1, 2005)

Tgace said:
			
		

> Try asking an American kid who won the Civil War....


 Or WWII for that matter.


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## Rich Parsons (May 1, 2005)

RRouuselot said:
			
		

> Its amazing how little your average Japanese guy on the street knows about any Japanese MA or the concepts there in ..ask them about Anime and you might get a more insightful reply.




I was sitting in a coffee shop waiting for some friends, and I smiled and flirted with a woman about my age, while she got her coffee. She joined her party, and was the second and younger wife of one of the guys. The other woman was an older Filipina. Well one fo the guys showed up and he had a balisong, and was asking about a loose pin. I am not a knife repair expert, and I offered my best. The woman my age looked at the knife and asked what it was. I explained it was a blade designed in originally in the PI, and it was called a Balisong. She asked why would we be interested in a knife from the PI? I explained that we trained in martial arts, and the art(s) is/are from the PI. The Filipina then commented about Judo and Karate being the art. I replied Modern Arnis and Balintawak, and she was upset. She did not know these arts, and was looking bad in front of her husband and friends. I turned to the American husband of the Filipina and commented the following: SHe is from a family with some money correct? He replied Yes. Then they probably thought of these types of arts as thug arts, where teh Judo and Karate had Uniforms with standards from other cultures. The Filipina was much happie once I explained how she might not know. 

This story is not the only one I have about people from the PI who do not know about their cultural arts. 

My Apologies for the off topic posts.

Peace
 :asian:


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## Colin_Linz (May 1, 2005)

In the late eighties I hosted a young Japanese 4th dan, who had come from four years full time study at our Hombu on Shikoku to live with a friend and myself for 12 months to help us with our training. I asked him what the difference between Budo and Bushido was. His English was not to bad, but it was difficult for him to describe complex concepts. His response was that Bushido is everything for the master, where as Budo is for yourself as well as others.


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## RRouuselot (May 1, 2005)

Rich Parsons said:
			
		

> I was sitting in a coffee shop waiting for some friends, and I smiled and flirted with a woman about my age, while she got her coffee. She joined her party, and was the second and younger wife of one of the guys. The other woman was an older Filipina. Well one fo the guys showed up and he had a balisong, and was asking about a loose pin. I am not a knife repair expert, and I offered my best. The woman my age looked at the knife and asked what it was. I explained it was a blade designed in originally in the PI, and it was called a Balisong. She asked why would we be interested in a knife from the PI? I explained that we trained in martial arts, and the art(s) is/are from the PI. The Filipina then commented about Judo and Karate being the art. I replied Modern Arnis and Balintawak, and she was upset. She did not know these arts, and was looking bad in front of her husband and friends. I turned to the American husband of the Filipina and commented the following: SHe is from a family with some money correct? He replied Yes. Then they probably thought of these types of arts as thug arts, where teh Judo and Karate had Uniforms with standards from other cultures. The Filipina was much happie once I explained how she might not know.
> 
> This story is not the only one I have about people from the PI who do not know about their cultural arts.
> 
> ...


 No problem. Interesting story, thanks.


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## Cruentus (May 2, 2005)

Kaith Rustaz said:
			
		

> Umm.... The West?



I'd say it was the revered president Lincoln.  :ultracool


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## heretic888 (May 2, 2005)

In regards to this topic, the following article maybe of some importance in regards to placing "bushido" in its proper historical context.

_Bushido or Bull? A Medieval Historians Perspective on the Imperial Army and the Japanese Warrior Tradition_ by Karl Friday.

Laterz.  :asian:


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## Tgace (May 2, 2005)

http://members.aol.com/koshinage/commentary/budo_and_bushido.htm



> To avoid these same exaggerations, the term _bushido_ in this paper refers to the loose collection of Pre-Meiji samurai ideals, not to be confused with the _bushido_ in Nitobe's work, or _bushido_ used in other contexts by other authors. Many authors have cited the Tokugawa period as the birth of _bushido_, but this can be misleading. Although _bushido_ first appeared in print during the Tokugawa era (by Yamaga Soko in 1685), during the strict Tokugawa regime, many laws and codes were passed, including those covering the samurai class, such as the _Buke- Shohatto_ (Laws of the Military House, 1615). Although these laws were influenced by the rich martial ethos of Japan's past, it was also influenced by the political agenda of the Tokugawa shoguns. To say that _bushido_, or the "Way of the Warrior", is confined to a collection of Tokugawan laws and military regulations is just as misleading as saying _bushido_ is confined by the definitions in Nitobe's work. Both may represent the martial ethos of their time, but they do not accurately reflect the attitudes of the samurai before them. Although samurai ideals and samurai "codes" varied according to time and geography, approaching _bushido_ as a loose collection of warrior ideals and codes of conduct that _began with the rise of the samurai class_ and _ended with the Meiji Restoration_ (the official end of Japan's feudal age and, therefore, the end of the historic samurai) serves as a way to separate the martial ethos of the samurai from the political ideology of the Meiji Period--and the misconceptions that persist in popular culture today.


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## heretic888 (May 2, 2005)

Interestingly enough, however, this "_loose collection of warrior ideals and codes of conduct that began with the rise of the samurai class and ended with the Meiji Restoration_" is never actually defined by the author. 

Not once. Not even once. That is very telling, in my opinion.

In fact, what the author does seem to actually detail is how the warrior's philosophy and thinking _differs_ from period to period. There is no theme of underlying unity or continuity, but rather one of perpetual change and historical revisionism.

By contrast, Karl Friday suggests in his article that what some would ascribe to be a "warrior code" is simply the set of Confucian values and mores that had been a part of Japanese culture for centuries prior to the rise of the samurai. There is nothing unique in this regard concerning the warrior class. These Confucian values were something shared by the entire culture (and are still, by and large, subscribed to to this day).

Laterz.


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## Tgace (May 2, 2005)

heretic888 said:
			
		

> Interestingly enough, however, this "_loose collection of warrior ideals and codes of conduct that began with the rise of the samurai class and ended with the Meiji Restoration_" is never actually defined by the author.
> 
> Not once. Not even once. That is very telling, in my opinion.


The Chikubasho:Shiba Yoshimasa (1350-1410 AD)
Regulations of Imagawa Ryoshun (1325-1420 AD)
17 Articles of Asakura Toshikage (1428-1481 AD)
21 Precepts of Hojo Soun: Hojo Nagauji (1432-1519 AD)
The Recorded Words of Asakura Soteki (1474-1555 AD)
The Iwamizudera Monogatari: Takeda Shingen (1521-1573 AD)
Opinions in 99 Articles:Takeda Nobushige (1538-1618 AD)
Lord Nabishima's Wall Inscriptions (1538-1618 AD)
Precepts of Kato Kiyomasa (1562-1611 AD)
Notes on Regulations:Kuroda Nagamasa (1568-1623 AD)

I could probably dig up online links to each, but as they will probably not make a difference, Ill leave the leg work up to others....

This site has a small collection of a few...
http://www.columbia.edu/~hds2/chushinguranew/Bushido/Kakun.htm



> *Samurai House Codes (kakun)*
> 
> 
> [font=Times New Roman,Times]The word _kakun_ is composed of two Chinese ideographs, the first meaning house,Eand the second meaning codeEor precept.Enbsp; As reflected in the ideographs, the _kakun_ functioned as moral guides, handed down from the head of the house or clan to younger males. In many cases the _kakun_ were meant to serve as ethical and behavioral guidelines for the sons or heirs of the writers and often reflect concerns regarding the prosperity and the continuity of the clan. Even though some _kakun_ have been found in connection with regents and other agents of the Imperial family, most of the writers and readers of _kakun_ were members of military households, especially after the establishment of the Kamakura shogunate (1185-1333). The writing of house codes prior to the Tokugawa period was generally limited to persons of high authority, and it was only during the Tokugawa period that _kakun_ from the houses of merchants and wealthy peasants began to appear.[/font]
> ...


[/font] 

 :shrug:


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## Tgace (May 2, 2005)

The Last Statement of Torii Mototada *(1539-1600AD) *

(written by Torii to his son Tadamasa a few days before the fall of the castle. It is a moving account of unbending and selfless loyalty of vassal to master, and expresses in very clear terms that the true meaning of being a warrior is to die in battle.) 

Recently there has been the report of an uprising in the Kamigata area, and that a large number of rebel daimyo who have fallen into the evil scheming of Ishida Mitsunari will first lay siege to this castle and are now making such preparations with large forces. 

For myself, I am resolved to make a stand within the castle and to die a quick death It would not take much trouble to break through a part of their numbers and escape, no matter how many tens of thousands of horsemen approached for the attack or by how many columns we were surrounded. But that is not the true meaning of being a warrior, and it would be difficult to account as loyalty. Rather, I will stand off the forces of the entire country here, and without one one-hundredth of the men necessary to do so, will throw up a defense and die a resplendent death. By doing so I will show that to abandon a castle that should be defended, or to value one's life so much as to avoid danger and to show the enemy one's weakness is not within the family traditions of my master Ieyasu. Thus I will have taken the initiative in causing lord Ieyasu's other retainers to be resolved, and in advancing righteousness to the warriors of the entire country. It is not the *way of the warrior* to be shamed and avoid death even under circumstances that are not particularly important. It goes without saying that to sacrifice one's life for one's master is an unchanging principle. As this is a matter I have thought over beforehand, I think that circumstances such that I am meting now must be envied by people of understanding. 

You Tadamasa, should understand the following well. Our ancestors have been personal vassals of the Matsudaira for generations........ 

(Mototada gives a lengthy history of how his father served Tokugawa's ancestors, naming the names of his ancestors) 

"Because lord Ieyasu is well aware of my loyalty, he has left me here in charge of the important area of Kamigata as Deputy of Fushimi Castle while he advances toward the east, and for a warrior there is nothing that could surpass this good fortune. That I should be able to go ahead of all of the other warriors of this country and lay down my life for the sake of my master's benevolence is an honor to my family and has been my most fervent desire for many years. 

"After I am slain you must lovingly care for your younger brothers......." 

(Mototada tells his son to raise his younger brothers and to offer themselves to Ieyasu as soon as they are able) 

"They must be determined to stand with Lord Ieyasu's clan in both its ascent and decline, in times of peace and in times of war; and either waking or sleeping they must never forget that they serve his clan and his clan alone. "To be avaricious for land or to forget old debts because of some passing dissatisfction, or to even temporarily entertain treacherous thoughts is not the Way of Man. Even if all of the other provinces of Japan were to unite against our lord, our descendants should not set foot inside another fief to the end of time........." 

(the section continues with several vows of loyalty to Ieyasu) 

I am now 62 years of age. Of the number of times I have barely escaped death since the time I was in Mikawa I have no Idea. Yet, not once have I acted in a cowardly way...... 

(There is a lengthy section where Mototada advises his son to listen to older retainers for advice) 

"The entire country will soon be in the hands of your master lord Ieyasu. If this is so, the men who served him will no doubt hope to become daimyo by his appointment. You should know that if such feelings arise, they are inevitably the beginning of the end of one's fortunes in the *Way of the Warrior.* Being affected by the avarice for office and rank, or wanting to become a daimyo and being eager for such things.......will not one begin to value his life?" 

"And how can a man commit acts of martial valor if he values his life? A man who has been born into the house of a warrior and yet places no loyalty in his heart and thinks only of the fortune of his position will be flattering on the surface and construct schemes in his heart, will forsake righteousness and not reflect on his shame, and will stain the warriors name of his household to later generations............" 

(Mototada gives his son advice on how to run the affairs of the clan and ends his statement with this 

Be first of all prudent in your conduct and have correct manners, develop harmony between master and retainers, and have compassion on those beneath you. Be correct in the degree of rewards and punishments, and let there be no partiality in your degree of intimacy with your retainers. The foundation of man's duty as a man is in "truth". Beyond this, there is nothing to be said"


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## Tgace (May 2, 2005)

http://www.columbia.edu/~hds2/chushinguranew/Bushido/original.html



> A testament to this fact is the wide range of names which have been used in different periods to refer to values associated with the warrior, values that have included (often to varying degrees) martial spirit, skill with weapons, loyalty to ones lord, a sense of personal honor, devotion to duty, and a willingness to sacrifice ones life. Some of the older names used in reference to such a "code" of values include "mononofu no michi," "masurao no michi," "tsuwamono no michi," "yumiya no michi," "musha no narai," and "yumiya toru mi no narai." Other names such as "samuraidô,"bushi no michi," and "shidô" have also been used. It appears that the term "bushido" itself only came into common usage during the Tokugawa period and did not become the word for designating "the way of warrior" until the Meiji period.


I believe Friday's work focuses mostly on the modern (post-Meiji) definition of "Bushido" and it's adaptation by the Japanese after signifigant renovation. While Bushido, as a term, (from its first mention in the Tokugawa era) was a "compilation" of various "house codes", precepts and other "Ways" mentioned above. And as mentioned in my previously cited writing.


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## Tgace (May 2, 2005)

Heres an interesting work regarding the "origins" of Bushido....

http://ccbs.ntu.edu.tw/FULLTEXT/JR-PHIL/ew26464.htm



> Actually, the term bushido appears in modern English publications, most notably martial-arts magazines, more often than it did in premodern Japanese texts. Even though unfamiliar with Tokugawa works, Nitobe imagined the term to have been his own. He was not totally wrong. In fact, it is only in the sengoku era that the term appears. Furukawa Tesshi finds it first in several sixteenth-century works, but considers the Koyo gunkan (not actually compiled until the early seventeenth century) to be the first text to articulate something called bushido as a behavioral pattern. And only in the subsequent Edo period does it gain some currency, although even then it is not widely used: works like Yamamoto Tsunetomo's Hagakure and Daidoji Yuzan's Budo shoshinshu which use the word are relatively rare. Indeed, Furukawa finds that in the sixty volumes included in Inoue's Bushido sosho (Collected Works of Bushido), only ten of the volumes even use the term, and of those, only four use it with any frequency.
> 
> Far more common in the Edo period were terms like shiko, budo, and bushi no michi. Throughout medieval Japan there were a number of house laws (kaho), house precepts (kakun), and other documents espousing a variety of moral values among samurai; but it was really during the Tokugawa or Edo period (1600-1868), when samurai literacy became almost universal, that works addressing the morality of the ruling samurai class circulated widely. Some were abstruse tomes of moral philosophy, some were manuals of behavior for the warriors of a certain domain. They were written largely from a Neo-Confucian point of view, although there were, of course, a number of heterodox schools which held differing perspectives from that of the orthodox school supported by the Tokugawa family.


And a dated, but nonetheless interesting work....
http://www8.big.or.jp/~yabukis/asa2005/bushi1905e.pdf


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## Tgace (May 2, 2005)

Can you tell I have an interest in the subject? 

The Heike Monogatari is one of the longest "War Chronicles", of which many Warriors of later generations idolized and and attempted to copy the ideals of. It narrates the events surrounding the Gempei Wars of 1181-1185, in which an alliance of clans led by the Minamoto drove the once mighty Taira and their allies from the capital, chasing them as far as the southern island of Kyushu in an attempt to exterminate every last member of the clan. 


http://www.glopac.org/Jparc/Atsumori/Heiketxt.htm


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## Colin_Linz (May 2, 2005)

So is Bushido something that we should aspire to? From my perspective I cant get past the need for total loyalty to one person, or the need to accept that I am in effect the property of another. Certainly loyalty is a noble quality, as many of the other stated qualities, but this needs to be tempered with morality and humanity. As for me, I find a more worthwhile path in Budo than Bushido.


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## Tgace (May 2, 2005)

At this point in history, I would say read some of the literature mentioned and take what is good from it......nobody really has to live "Bushido" as a total lifestyle anymore.


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## arnisador (May 2, 2005)

It would be somewhat affected to adopt it here and now, wouldn't it? Like intentionally speaking with a British accent?


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## arnisador (May 2, 2005)

Tgace said:
			
		

> Can you tell I have an interest in the subject? http://www.glopac.org/Jparc/Atsumori/Heiketxt.htm


 It's a library in here!


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## heretic888 (May 3, 2005)

Very interesting, Tgace. Thanks for the sources. 

However, I still don't perceive the presence of some continous, unchanging "code" or "way" that all Japanese warriors are supposed to have followed. From what I'm reading here, it looks like the moral precepts uttered in the various _kakuan_ differed from clan to clan --- and, even more significantly, from time period to time period.

There, for example, doesn't seem to really be anything akin to the _bushido_ in Tsunetomo's *Hagakure* in the _kakuan_.

Furthermore, and this is the point Dr. Friday makes in his article, the actual behavior of the pre-Edo _samurai_ differs substantially from the values and morals espoused. The Tokugawa shogunate's warriors, however, seem to be much more in alignment with the precepts typically attributed to _bushido_.

*shrug* Then again, maybe its just me. Laterz.


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## Tgace (May 3, 2005)

heretic888 said:
			
		

> Very interesting, Tgace. Thanks for the sources.
> 
> However, I still don't perceive the presence of some continous, unchanging "code" or "way" that all Japanese warriors are supposed to have followed. From what I'm reading here, it looks like the moral precepts uttered in the various _kakuan_ differed from clan to clan --- and, even more significantly, from time period to time period.
> 
> ...


Absolutely. There never was an unchanging "all encompassing code". My point is that the Bushido that appeared in Tokugawa Japan did in fact "develop" from "codes", rules and writings that were peculiar to the warrior class vs. "common practice". Much in the same way that modern military institutions have their own culture. Much in common, but different in many ways from branch to branch. There is a "military culture" and there is an "Army, Marine, Navy, Air Force etc." culture. If we were to meld them all together with a common source of ideals and behaviors we would have a "Bushido"esque culture of sorts.


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## heretic888 (May 3, 2005)

Oh, absolutely. 

I didn't mean to imply that the mores and values underlying Tsunetomo's _bushido_ were somehow magically self-generated in the late 17th century. They were clearly based, at least in part, on pre-existing rules and practices.

However, it still remains the case that there doesn't seem to be anything like Tsunetomo's _bushido_ during, say, the Sengoku-Jidai. At least, not if we look to the actual behavior of samurai from this time period. We could look to Uesugi Kenshin, mind you, but he was a fanatically devout Buddhist, which explained his "honorable" orientation moreso than anything else. Meaning, he was more like the exception to the norm. 

Underhanded tactics and betrayals were quite common during this time period. Hell, that was how Oda Nobunaga met his end. Even Kusunoki Masashige, the archetypal samurai warrior of the Southern Court, fought his entire campaign on the basis of subterfuge and commando warfare.

But, still, I see your point. Even coming from the "ninja" side of things, we see a set of values very, say, _bushido_-esque expressed in the second chapter of the *Bansenshukai* (an Iga ninjutsu treatise published around 1676).

Laterz.  :asian:


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## Tgace (May 3, 2005)

Well "Tsunetomo's bushido" as expressed in the Hagakure was kind of a glamorization of the "good old days" by a Samurai administrator. After so many years of Tokugawa enforced peace, most of his writings were kind of reliving the glory days. I find the older stuff to be much closer in "martial spirit" to the "Way of the Warrior".

A little about the Hagakure's history here...

http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Towers/9151/hagakure.htm


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## Colin_Linz (May 3, 2005)

Tgace said:
			
		

> At this point in history, I would say read some of the literature mentioned and take what is good from it......nobody really has to live "Bushido" as a total lifestyle anymore.


 [font=&quot][/font]I think the Japanese have already done this with the creation of Budo. This of course doesnt mean that no one else can, just that many Japanese martial artists have recognised the inadequacies of Bushido. I know Doshin So gave many talks on the need for people to not accept anything he or anyone else said on face value, but to educate themselves and examine the facts for themselves. One of his favourite sayings was live half for yourself, and half for others.


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## Tgace (May 3, 2005)

Budo and Bushido are so interrelated that I dont believe you can say one is "better" than the other....

http://karatethejapaneseway.com/floating_world/srsi_bushido_article.html


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## heretic888 (May 3, 2005)

Tgace said:
			
		

> Budo and Bushido are so interrelated that I believe you can say one is "better" than the other....
> 
> http://karatethejapaneseway.com/floating_world/srsi_bushido_article.html



I agree.


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## Tgace (May 3, 2005)

When it comes to codes and "Warrior ethos" I often see the "well they didnt really live like that" response. To which I say "well naturally so". Codes are more Ideals to be lived up to more than they are laws. These Codes are the ideals that "Warriors" use to carry them through the "why am I here doing this" moments. Its the Marine "esprit de corps" that makes them Marines, sets them apart, and is in part a component of what allows the Marines to accomplish what they have. The historic Knights didnt "live" the Chivalric code 100% anymore than the Samurai "lived" the Bushido Code. But who could put up with the fear of death with the cynical mindset of "Im here as a tool of national policy and my death here will really have no meaning." without losing their sanity? People seem to expect those who put themselves in dangerous situations for at least what they believe to be the "greater good" to take no pride in what they do. Much like people who want to say that in my line of work that Im not really a "Protector and defender" as much as Im a paper pusher who just shows up to pick up the pieces. Why put up with the fear that the guy you just pulled over has a .357 in his lap, or the domestic you walk into may be the door you never walk out of with that kind of mindset? As arrogant as this next bit sounds, I think a lot of it comes from people who consider their lives "less than exciting/adequate" and want to minimize what others do, to negate the foundation of what keeps them going back to work day after day.


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## arnisador (May 3, 2005)

Tgace said:
			
		

> Budo and Bushido are so interrelated


 Yes, absolutely true.


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## heretic888 (May 4, 2005)

Tgace said:
			
		

> When it comes to codes and "Warrior ethos" I often see the "well they didnt really live like that" response. To which I say "well naturally so". Codes are more Ideals to be lived up to more than they are laws. These Codes are the ideals that "Warriors" use to carry them through the "why am I here doing this" moments. Its the Marine "esprit de corps" that makes them Marines, sets them apart, and is in part a component of what allows the Marines to accomplish what they have. The historic Knights didnt "live" the Chivalric code 100% anymore than the Samurai "lived" the Bushido Code.



Well, I think the point that Dr. Friday was trying to get at in his article was that the historical samurai of the Sengoku-Jidai typically behaved in the exact opposite manner to the ideals associated later expressed in the _Hagakure_. It wasn't a simple matter of not living up to these lofty ideals expected of the samurai. Rather, it was an almost complete disregard for these ideals altogether. Although, rare individuals such as Uesugi Kenshin could be seen as possible exceptions to this norm.

Covert tactics and betrayals were both commonplace in Japan's history. Schools such as Katori Shinto ryu include some teachings that would be regarded as "ninjutsu" nowadays. Kusunoki Masashige and Minamoto Yoshitsune fought their campaigns almost entirely on the basis of guerilla warfare and subterfuge. Oda Nobunaga met his end via the betrayal of one of his closest retainers. Even in the realm of mythology, Prince Yamato Takeru no Mikoto actually disguises himself as a woman to assassinate a political rival! And, even the mythical first emperor, Jimmu Tenno, employs retainers that utilize disguise and misdirection to infiltrate into enemy territory!!

Another point that Friday brings up is that the actual vassalhood relationships between samurai and daimyo was a bit different during the Sengoku-Jidai when compared to the Edo-Jidai. The motivating goals seem to be moreso mutual self-interest on the part of both parties, at least during the Sengoku-Jidai. This differs substantially with how things were done during the Tokugawa's rule.

Regarding the European knight's "chivalry", I would wager that --- like the _Hagakure's_ "bushido" --- it was moreso a product of later thinkers retroactively projecting their values onto the "glorious past".

That's just my take, anyway.  :asian:


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## Tgace (May 4, 2005)

More than likely...however none of it negates the value of the "codes" themselves. And many of the "house rules" of the "pre-bushido" age do espouse many components of a "Warrior code" and actions the lord expected of the retainers. 

I believe this is much like the difference between how a modern millitary officer thinks himself a "warrior" and how the 19 y.o. private imagines himself. They can be two vastly different things in thought and practice.....

I also think we are casting our version of "morality" on the Bushido code. Remember we are talking about warriors that idealized concepts like...



> "I would like to spare you," he said, restraining his tears, "but there are Genji warriors everywhere.  You cannot possibly escape.  It will be better if I kill you than if someone else does it, because I will offer prayers on your behalf."


Their whole concept of mercy, honor, and all the other ideals experessed were of an entirely different "tack" than what we consider them now.


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## heretic888 (May 4, 2005)

Tgace said:
			
		

> More than likely...however none of it negates the value of the "codes" themselves. And many of the "house rules" of the "pre-bushido" age do espouse many components of a "Warrior code" and actions the lord expected of the retainers.



Oh, don't get me wrong. 

I'm not saying that the codes themselves are value-less, or that Tsunetomo somehow invented all the ideas for "bushido" in the late 1600's. This is all clearly rooted in long-standing mores in Japanese culture, which themselves seem to have their basis in the Confucian philosophy imported from China.

All I'm saying is that, say, "underhanded" tactics seemed to have been widely embraced in Japan's feudal period. One could even dare to say that such strategies were _expected_ during times of war...

But, to be fair, I do recall reading references to a "kyuba no michi" (translated: "way of the bow and horse") in some of Turnbull's translations of the Kamakura-Jidai texts. To my knowledge, however, this "way" was never explicitly laid our or codified in any fashion.

Laterz.


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## Tgace (May 4, 2005)

Of course "honor" on the field of battle between individual combatants could have been (and probably was) vastly different from the concept of "honor" in regards to the assassinations, intrigues and other instances mentioned.


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## Colin_Linz (May 4, 2005)

Tgace said:
			
		

> Budo and Bushido are so interrelated that I dont believe you can say one is "better" than the other....
> 
> http://karatethejapaneseway.com/floating_world/srsi_bushido_article.html


I cant see this at all, they are fundamentally different. Yes some core values are the same, but there is a huge difference between the fundamental tenant in Bushido of loyalty at all costs to the master. I havent read the article yet, but I will do so, but it will have to be well researched before I can place it ahead of what of what senior sensei from Japan have taught me regarding Budo and its meaning (it is a grading subject), or how the Toyo Budokan defines budo. The following is a quote from Doshin Sos book Shorinji Kempo, its philosphies and techniques, printed in 1970. This is by a Japanese man that lived for 28 years in China and had a high level of knowledge of Chinese and Japanese written language and martial art history. I apologies for any strangeness that may be apparent, I dont have the time to go through the OCR scan for errors.



*One may be inclined to think of martial art as incongruous with the teachings of Shorinji Kempo. But one must not confuse Kempo with other schools of martial arts prevalent today, many of which center on cultivating sheer strength, which is then measured by how many bricks one can break in a blow or whether one can fight a bull bare-handed, etc.... Others stress winning in competitions and are, therefore, no different from such sports as boxing or wrestling. There are also schools aimed at cultivating strange powers such as the ability to put one's shoulder and arm joints out of and then back into place. Unlike these schools, the martial*

*art of Shorinji Kempo is characterized neither by the cultivation of brute force or strange powers nor by competitions in which one loses or wins. The cultivation of a balanced man in harmony with others is the objective of Shorinji Kempo, and its martial art is strictly in line with this aim.*

*As the Chinese (and Japanese) term for martial **art*_* budo *_*has **special** significance in expressing the essence and original meaning of **what has been translated "martial art," let us examine it closely. It is composed of two Chinese characters-bu and do: The first is defined in the *_*Setsurrtonkiji, *_*written in about A.D: 120 in the Later Han Dynasty; as "to stop **a **spear"; i.e. to quell violence and set **conditions aright. : The second, **do; **means "the **way" **and is the character **used **in writing Shinto, Tao, etc.... The original meaning of the term budo is, therefore, the way to suppress violence and to return to the way of Man; or more generally, to promote peace **and **understanding between rivals. In other words; budo` is not a "martial" art in the sense of being a tool of : attack or **a **method of winning competitions. Furthermore *_*budo *_*is **not a training method for strengthening the body to emanate brute force **or a means of achieving self-satisfaction. In its original and true sense, budo emphasizes the principle of harmonious coexistence. Therefore, the role of budo is purely defensive and lies in the creation of human beings with social con&shy;sciousness equipped with the power to eliminate evil elements in society and to terminate and prevent conflicts.*

*The reason why *_*budo *_*has deteriorated into a mere sport on the one hand or into a means of inflicting injury and inciting violence on the other lies in Man and not in the nature of *_*budo *_*itself. For as **a knife can be used either to pare an apple or to kill, Man is responsible for the constructive or destructive consequences of any potentiality. The martial art of Shorinji Kempo, whose aim is in line with the original meaning of budo, actively cultivates peace, happiness, and harmony among men by making these and other ideals easily accessible in the form of experience.*


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## Tgace (May 4, 2005)

I think we have a difference in definition. Budo developed out of Bujutsu, both of which were rooted in and grew from the soil of Japanese concepts that made up Bushido. As we have been discussing, Bushido is/was more a compiliation of various philosophies and writings than a code pre-Tokugawa..check out this excellent article.

http://martialarts.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http://kiaiyamabushiryu.tripod.com/Archives/Jan2000/NewsArt5.html



> Although Bushido is not a martial art or form, it is still related to the origins of Bujutsu and Budo. It is one of the reasons how and why the bushi developed bujutsu.


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## Bester (May 5, 2005)

I have a question:

How come the guys that cry the loudest about a lack of "Bushido" and "Martial Spirit" are quiet on this thread?  Seems to me they should be the ones educating us, right? Unless all their information was from movies and badly translated books? Hmm?


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## Colin_Linz (May 5, 2005)

Tgace said:
			
		

> I think we have a difference in definition. Budo developed out of Bujutsu, both of which were rooted in and grew from the soil of Japanese concepts that made up Bushido. As we have been discussing, Bushido is/was more a compiliation of various philosophies and writings than a code pre-Tokugawa..check out this excellent article.
> 
> http://martialarts.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http://kiaiyamabushiryu.tripod.com/Archives/Jan2000/NewsArt5.html
> 
> [/size][/font][/b]


The two concepts have been around for many years stretching back to early China. It was said that Bodhidharma (Daruma) introduced budo to China. Now there is little proof of this story, and we can all believe what we wish to, but the arts studied at the Shaolin temple were of a fundamentally different nature to the arts already practiced in China. This art was called Arohan no ken, or Nalo-jan in later years it was called I-jinsin to distinguish it from zazen. Where as the aim of the martial arts practiced in China at this time was purely efficient fighting methods. The martial arts practiced at the Shaolin temple were for developing the characters of the practitioners, and a form of gyo or ascetic training to reach enlightenment. This attitude of training mirrors the attitude of budo and is vastly different to that of bushido. Certainly they share similar concepts, but ultimately Bushido is all about making yourself a better tool for your master, while Budo is about self development and a greater awareness of humanity and the world we live in. This is why Bushido was promoted so heavily by the Japanese leaders at various times, with its Confucianism philosophy it was seen as a good tool to develop obedient followers.


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## Tgace (May 5, 2005)

Whatever you want to believe man.....According to most authors Budo, Bujutsu are classified as fighting arts (with some attendant philosophies tied in) while Bushido is purely a Martial Philosophy. :idunno:


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## Tgace (May 5, 2005)

In a highly slimplified way, here is the difference between Budo, Bujutsu and Bushido as I have come to understand it.

Early Japanese combat arts were known as Bujutsu, they essentially had no philosophical or spiritual side. They were military arts used for practical application. Later martial arts that were developed with a spiritual side are known as Budo. For example, Judo is a Budo form of the Bujutsu art of Jujitsu. Kendo-Kenjutsu/Kyudo-Kyujutsu etc.

The word Bushido "way of the warrior" is often used when speaking about the martial arts. Bushido is not a martial art, it is a fighting philosophy, a system of combat ethics. Bushido incorporates Shinto and Confucian ideals. By following Bushido, warriors could apply their combat skills in strictly defined right or wrong ways. This "fundamental tenant" of total loyalty was peculiar to the "Japanese" (at the time at least) as a culture rather than to any particular thought system. Thats why Bushido developed where and how it did and would have been across Budo, Bujutsu, Bushido, Buwhateveryouwanttocallit.


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## Colin_Linz (May 5, 2005)

Certainly budo are fighting arts, but if you ask a Japanese martial artist if budo and bushido are the same they will offer a similar description to mine. This is not only true with Shorinji Kempo, but also other Japanese forms of Budo. The philosophy and meaning of budo that I offered is the accepted Japanese version, it may not be universally accepted, but it is the accepted concept by the major styles and educational institutes like the Budo Senmon Gakko. The problem in the west is that many finer points of Budo are not that well understood. This is because many westerners dont have the language skills to discuss complex philosophies, and it is difficult to get good translators that also know the philosophy and can translate it in an accurate manner. This is why our Kohan is still untranslated. It is so hard to find a translator that also understands the thoughts behind what is being said, and has the skills to relay them to a European. As has been said earlier, most Japanese dont understand budo or bushido.


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## Colin_Linz (May 5, 2005)

Tgace said:
			
		

> In a highly slimplified way, here is the difference between Budo, Bujutsu and Bushido as I have come to understand it.
> 
> Early Japanese combat arts were known as Bujutsu, they essentially had no philosophical or spiritual side. They were military arts used for practical application. Later martial arts that were developed with a spiritual side are known as Budo. For example, Judo is a Budo form of the Bujutsu art of Jujitsu. Kendo-Kenjutsu/Kyudo-Kyujutsu etc.
> 
> The word Bushido "way of the warrior" is often used when speaking about the martial arts. Bushido is not a martial art, it is a fighting philosophy, a system of combat ethics. Bushido incorporates Shinto and Confucian ideals. By following Bushido, warriors could apply their combat skills in strictly defined right or wrong ways. This "fundamental tenant" of total loyalty was peculiar to the "Japanese" (at the time at least) as a culture rather than to any particular thought system. Thats why Bushido developed where and how it did and would have been across Budo, Bujutsu, Bushido, Buwhateveryouwanttocallit.


Broadly speaking I agree with this, although there are a number of Bujutsu sensei that claim they have a self-development aspect too.

The concept of absolute loyalty to the state or master comes from Confucian philosophy, a quote from an article by  Karl Friday _A second popular theme among modern commentators on bushido concerns the absolute fielty that warriors were supposed to have displayed toward their lords. The loyalty of a samurai is said to have been unconditional and utterly selfless. It is true that exhortations to loyalty were a major theme in shogunal regulations, the house laws of the great medieval feudal barons, and seventeenth and eighteenth century treatises on bushido, as well. But there are at least two problems involved in interpreting from this that loyalty was a fundamental part of the medieval warrior character. _

_To begin with, the unrestricted loyalty that subjects owe their rulers is a basic tenet of Confucianism and derives little or nothing from any military tradition per se. Japanese government appeals for loyalty from subjects began long before the birth of the samurai class--as, for example, in the "Seventeen Article Constitution" of Shotoku Taishi, promulgated in 603. The concept predates even the existence of a Japanese nation by hundreds of years, and traces back to the Chinese Confucian philosophers of the sixth to third centuries BC. Japanese warlords who called upon the samurai who served them to render unflinching loyalty were not so much defining proper samurai behavior as they were exhorting their subjects on a traditional and general theme of government. _


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## Colin_Linz (May 5, 2005)

I don't want to divert this thread from its discussion of Bushido, but I found this on a Japanese Judo site and thought it may help to show how Bushido is fundamentally different from Budo, and may help my statement regarding the accepted Japanese definition of Budo. I think article 1 demonstrates a clear departure from the central tenet of Bushido in that it is clearly aimed at developing people with the ability to form moral judgments rather than accept what their lords have decreed. As you read this it will become clear that the meaning of Budo was even difficult to pinpoint by these great masters, but the eventual outcome of their research is in line with Doshin Sos definition that I posted earlier. This group consisted of representatives from Judo, Kendo, Kyudo, Sumo, Karatedo, Aikido, Shorinji Kempo, Naginata, and Jukendo.

 The Budo Charter (Budo Kensho)

 Established on April 23, 1987 by Japanese Budo Association (Nippon Budo Shingikai)

Budo, rooted in the martial spirit of ancient Japan, is an aspect of traditional culture that has evolved from jyutsu to do through centuries of historical and social change.
 Following the concept of unity of mind and technique, budo has developed and refined a discipline of austere training which promotes etiquette, skillful technique, physical strength, and the unity of mind and body. Modern Japanese have inherited these values and they play a prominent role in forming Japanese personalities. In modern Japan the budo spirit is a source of powerful energy and promotes a pleasant disposition in the individual.
 Today, budo has been diffused throughout the world and has attracted strong interest internationally. However, infatuation with mere technical training, and undue concern with winning is a severe threat to the essence of budo. To prevent this perversion of the art, we must continually examine ourselves and endeavor to perfect and preserve this national heritage.
 It is with this hope that we establish the BUDO CHARTER in order to uphold the fundamental principles of traditional budo.
 ARTICLE 1: OBJECT
 The object of budo is to cultivate character, enrich the ability to make value judgments, and foster a well disciplined and capable individual through participation in physical and mental training utilizing martial techniques.
 ARTICLE 2: KEIKO
 When practicing daily, one must constantly follow decorum, adhere to the fundamentals, and resist the temptation to pursue mere technical skill rather than the unity of mind and technique.
 ARTICLE 3: SHIAI
 In a match and the performance of kata, one must manifest budo spirit, exert himself to the utmost, win with modesty, accept defeat gracefully, and constantly exhibit temperate attitudes.
 ARTICLE 4: DOJO
 The dojo is a sacred place for training one's mind and body. Here, one must maintain discipline, proper etiquette, and formality. The training area must be a quiet, clean, safe and solemn environment.
 ARTICLE 5: TEACHING
 When teaching trainees, in order to be an effective teacher, the budo master should always strive to cultivate his/her character, and further his/her own skill and discipline of mind and body. He/She should not be swayed by winning or losing, or display arrogance about his/her superior skill, but rather he/she should retain the attitudes suitable for a role-model.
 ARTICLE 6: PROMOTION
 When promoting budo, one should follow traditional values, seek substantial training, contribute to research, and do one's utmost to perfect and preserve this traditional art with an understanding of international points of view.
 THE ESTABLISHMENT OF THE BUDO CHARTER
 1. OBJECT
 By 1981 interest in budo had become international and the need to establish International Budo University, where people from all over the world could study budo, had become evident. Because of international influences budo had begun to function as a sport. School budo had become more popular because of championships and their promotion. At the same time, the Japanese Budo Association was aware of a growing interest, nationally and internationally, in budo as an expression of traditional Japanese culture.
 In response to these trends, Goro Yamanaka, a standing Trustee of the Japanese Budo Association, presented a proposal to the Board of Trustees for the creation of the Committee to Establish the Significance of Budo (a tentative name). The proposal was approved on April 16, 1981.
 The mandate of the committee was to investigate and resolve the question "What is budo?" They began by agreeing to try to clarify what spiritual principals regarding the development of the individual are unique to budo and shared by each do. The next step would be to compare these fundamental budo principals with sports from abroad.
 2. PROCEEDINGS
 The Budo Charter Committee was established by the Board of Trustees of the Japanese Budo Association. They held more than twenty discussion sessions from July, 1981 to March, 1984, and the representatives from each do expressed their opinions and made speeches. The process of clarifying the principals of budo was one of information gathering and consensus building.
 Four budo scholars gave speeches at various lecture meetings supported by this committee. Eiichi Eriguchi lectured on "Internationalization of Budo and Its Problems," Dr. Yoshio Imamura on "Changes in the Meaning of Budo," Katsumi Nishimura on "Changes in Budo in School Education," and Shinichi Oimatsu on "the Fundamental Significance of Jigoro Kano's Judo (a founder of Kodokan Judo), and the Object of the Austere Training."
 In March, 1983, the Board published an additional issue of a journal, A Report on Modern Budo which summarizes the progress of this research.
 Meanwhile, in preparation for drawing up the Budo Charter, the members of the committee obtained cooperation from each do to search for areas of agreement among the do. Beginning in May 1982, a series of articles entitled "An Overall Explanation of Modern Budo" were published by Nippon Budokan in the monthly journal, Budo.
 In addition, three sub-committees to the Budo Charter Committee were established to study (1) the origin and history of budo, chaired by Tatsuo Saimura, (2) the outlook for unifying budo, chaired by Shinichi Oimatsu, and (3) the image of the ideal human being, chaired by Kisshomaru Ueshiba. In June, 1983, Hiroichi Tsujihara, who had taken office as a standing Trustee of the Board after Goro Yamanaka, took over the responsibilities of researching the Budo Charter. Thus Hiroichi Tsujihara was added to this Committee of Four to Create the Budo Charter. These Chairmen agreed to make a definite plan on the content of the Charter and hoped to make a charter that would become a concrete guideline for austere trainers.
 In October, 1984, the Special Committee To Draft The Budo Charter was formed and Hiroichi Tsujihara was elected Chairman (Kihei Kijima took over in July, 1986). Members are Dr. Yuzo Kishino, Katsumi Nishimura, Goro Hagawa, and Shinji Nakabayashi. The committee has met sixteen times.
 In order to reach agreement about the principals of budo the Committee studied the papers presented at the conferences of the Japanese Academy of Budo and other symposiums. They presented a proposed Budo Charter to the Japanese Budo and other symposiums. They presented a proposed Budo Charter to the Japanese Budo Association which was responded to by the dos and revised. On January 19, 1987, the Board of Trustees of the Japanese Budo Association approved the Budo Charter.
 3. APPLICATION
 The Budo Charter was established by the collective will of the Japanese Budo Association to encourage the appropriate development of budo.
 Each do has affirmed the charter, but applied its guidelines subjectively, according to its own requirements.
 --------------------------------------
 NOTES:
 1. The Chinese character (kanji) for the character "jutsu" is composed of gyo, which means road or way, and shutsu, which means stick to the stem. Jutsu is the indication of the road that people stick to for a long time. As a result, jutsu means the method or way that people have stuck to since ancient times, namely, traditional way. Jutsu has the following meanings:
 (1) art, skill; (2) traditional discipline; (3) teaching or instructing as one was taught.
 2. The Chinese character (kanji) for the character "do" (or "michi") is composed of shinnyu, which means foot movement, and shu, which means head. The head faces toward the direction that one intends to go. It should be the road or way that one can go through. From Chinese character, "do" means the way of thinking, the discipline, and the method that one must follow.
 (Notes 3 through 8 omitted)
 (Names of the committee members omitted)
 THE BUDO CHARTER (BUDO KENSHO) It states the purpose and the meaning of budo training. The Budo Charter Committee included the representatives from the following budo disciplines: Judo, Kendo, Kyudo, Sumo, Karatedo, Aikido, Shorinji Kempo, Naginata, and Jukendo.
 Respectfully submitted,
 Akihiro Omi


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## Tgace (May 5, 2005)

Yes, Japanese thought was influenced by Confucian, Buddhist, Shinto Philosophy. However it was also a "Japenese" rendition. US culture is/was vastly influenced by Christian "Philosophy" however try arguing that we are a Christian Nation. Budo is to Bushido as say an imaginary art called Marine Corpjutsu is to the "warrior culture of the Marines". You could take the "jutsu" and develop it all you want but you cant deny the association or influence of the culture to the fundamental basis of the art...

BTW, your Budo Charter sounds a lot like the "house rules" of the Samurai that Bushido was based on in content and form....


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## Colin_Linz (May 5, 2005)

First off, thanks for an interesting discussion.
Are you saying that the techniques are related? If so I would agree; however if you are saying that the concept behind them are similar I would say no. To be truthful I don't know if Budo was a development of Bushido or not, but the two concepts do go back to China and have long been separate, they are for developing a totally different outcome. I'm pretty sure that although the word for budo may sound different in Chinese, it is made from the same characters (kanji) as the Japanese version. Since kanji offer a meaning behind them, not just a sound it has the same meaning. No doubt the Japanese have added something of themselves as they have with the other social and cultural borrowings from China.
Yes, the charter does. Budo may not be a Warriors path, but it is a Martial path, so some of the values hold. The telling difference between the two is the reason behind the training, this is dividing gulf between them. Bushido or Warriors path is to develop strong warriors that offer blind allegiance; where Budo or Martial path, uses martial techniques to foster self development, understanding between people and peaceful relationships. This is the stated aim of the Japanese Budokan, and all its member systems. So regardless of any connections they are practiced for totally separate outcomes. This was my original point. From my perspective I see value in travelling the budo pathway, while the Bushido pathway leaves me cold, the end destination is not something I aspire to.


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## Tgace (May 5, 2005)

Yes, thank you for keeping an interesting discussion alive. 

Im not saying that Budo "developed out of" Bushido per se. They really arent related in a direct succession line (as budo is to bujutsu) as Bushido is not a martial art, but a "Code". Im saying that Budo is as interrelated to Bushido as the Judeo Christian religions are interrelated tro each other. As much as they may want to deny the relationship, they all developed from a "common ground".

Bujutsu (military arts) were the plain old military techniques used by the Samurai, much like riflery, bayonet, artillery etc. are military "arts" of today. They were employed by the samurai who had developed their own "culture" which was a compellation of religons, philosophies, "house codes", literature etc. that eventually was "codified" as Bushido. 

If you are really interested in understanding my view on the matter, this article is excellent...

http://userpages.chorus.net/wrassoc/articles/bushido.htm



> During the relatively peaceful rule by the Tokugawa Shoguns there developed 7 interconnected characteristics (justice, courage, benevolence, politeness, sincerity, honor, loyalty to the lord) that have come to make up the ideal of Bushido. It was during this same period of time that many do forms came into existence changing the emphasis of the bushi from strictly combat oriented (bujutsu) to areas of human development too (budo). In a way, Bushido can be thought of as a bridge between bujutsu and budo. The well known martial artist and historian, Donn Draeger (1979) makes the following distinctions between bujutsu and budo: classical bujutsu was concerned with combat, discipline and morals while classical budo was concerned with morals, discipline and aesthetic form. While these concerns overlap, they are not the same nor is the emphasis the same. One can see how the moral guidance provided by Bushido might lead a student of bujutsu to change the emphasis of their study towards the goals of budo. Anyone who has studied a jutsu for many years probably makes this shift at some point in their training.


So yes..I am saying that philosophically they are very interrelated.

The tennants of Bushido (as codified)...justice, courage, benevolence, politeness, sincerity, honor, loyalty to the lord...how the last part invalidates the positive points of all the rest I do not understand. Unless you are an ancient samurai, you can choose to take the good of Bushido and ignore the bad. BTW I find nothing wrong or dishonorable with a sense of duty. IMO its a trait sorely lacking (me me me me) in todays society.


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## mariaclara (Sep 15, 2007)

download a free book by Inazo Nitobe about Bushido.
(type bushido nitobe in your google search box. 
   or go to www.gutenberg.org/etext/12096)

this can give you a better perspective of Bushido.


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