# Single hand throat grab and two hand throat grab



## Azulx (Apr 12, 2016)

What are your favorite ways to get out of these two self-defense scenarios?


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## Paul_D (Apr 13, 2016)

If you had asked this in the martial arts section, then my answer would be every different, however as you have asked it in the self-defence section…..

In order for me to have ended up in a situation where someone has their hand or hands around my neck, then it means I must have been either a) asleep or b) was so switched off and oblivious to what was going on around me (i.e. in code white) that there is simply no way I could suddenly and instantly become switched on enough (i.e. code red) to start pulling off strangle defences.

To paraphrase Geoff Thompson:- If you are attacked in code white pretty much the only thing that will save you is the ineptitude of your attacker. 

If I am switched on, it won’t get to the point where someone’s hands are around my neck, as there will be a multitude of opportunities for me to prevent it getting it that stage, and if I get to the point where all of this options have run out, then I attack pre-emptively before they strangle me.


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## drop bear (Apr 13, 2016)

I have successfully c choked a heck of a lot of people. Done right it is high percentage. Think of the collar tie position. Except the hand is at the front of the throat rather than the back of the neck.









Defensively it is the same.

With added face punching. Or whatever.


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## MI_martialist (Apr 13, 2016)

Umm...I would love to hear the difference Paul_D between your martial arts answer and your self defense answer.

You must attack the attack before it gets to the point where someone has their hands on you.  If they get their hands on you, your only concern is to deal with the greatest threat, which is restriction of air flow or blood flow.


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## Bill Mattocks (Apr 13, 2016)

Azulx said:


> What are your favorite ways to get out of these two self-defense scenarios?



There are many, many, technical releases for arm, lapel, shoulder, or throat grabs.  They all work, to varying degree, based quite a bit on the skill of the martial artist and the individual circumstances.  Presuming a 'self-defense' scenario as you stated, my response would be to punch the person doing the grabbing right in the face, as hard as I could.  A person would have to have mighty long arms and be mighty strong to strangle me while holding me firmly at arm's length and not be in striking range.


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## Paul_D (Apr 13, 2016)

MI_martialist said:


> Umm...I would love to hear the difference Paul_D between your martial arts answer and your self defense answer..



Ok, if I am to do a Worzel Gummidge (waits while everyone under 40 and not in the UK Google’s Worzel Gummidge) and take my self defence head off, and put my martial arts head on…..

The first rule of any strangle defence is to put your chin down, as this will buy you valuable seconds.  Next, the short answer is I would strike a vulnerable area, either the windpipe, or most probably the lower abdomen (when people are squeezing your neck their arms/shoulder are strong, but that strength comes with a price, another part of your body must then be weak, one of these is the stomach and lower abdomen) as to what I would do after that would depend entirely on how they reacted.  I cannot say I would do a, b or c, as he may not fall or lean or move or have certain part of his body in the correct position for me a, b or c.

The long answer is a thesis explaining how there are no techniques, techniques are purely the physical manifestation of principals, and the idea is not to collect techniques to defend scenarios a through to z, but merely to internalise these principals so that you act instinctively to whatever opportunity your attacker presents you with.  Techniques have a finite use, principals have an infinite number of applications.  but no one wants to read that thesis, and I don't have time to write it.

So in essence, I have to say don’t know what I would do as I wouldn’t have a pre-planned list of techniques lined up.  I would strike, and then react according to how the opponent reacted.  Which probably still isn’t the answer you wanted either, sorry


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## Danny T (Apr 13, 2016)

Azulx said:


> What are your favorite ways to get out of these two self-defense scenarios?


Like all situations: 
It depends but it won't happen like you think it will.
What most people don't take in to consideration is the amount of violence coming at you if someone wants to strangle you. The attack won't happen with some one walking up to you and reaching out to grasp your throat. The attack will most likely be sudden, fast, and powerful with the attacker throwing their full body weight into the attack. The shear suddenness of the attack and body mass plowing into you will throw you off balance. Your head will be snapped in whiplash action causing even more trauma to the throat and neck as you are slammed whether the attack is to the front or the back.


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## oftheherd1 (Apr 13, 2016)

MI_martialist said:


> Umm...I would love to hear the difference Paul_D between your martial arts answer and your self defense answer.
> 
> You must attack the attack before it gets to the point where someone has their hands on you.  If they get their hands on you, your only concern is to deal with the greatest threat, which is restriction of air flow or blood flow.



Defending the attack before it actually arrives is always the best thing.  If for whatever reason you can/did not, as Bill says, there are many things you can use.  One arm up and over the opponent's arms and down forcefully as you step to the other side from your arm is one.  If their arms are short enough, a strike to the throat or eyes is good, just to name a couple.


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## Flatfish (Apr 13, 2016)

According to Rory Miller: If they are strangling you at arms length just step back (unless you are against a wall of course)


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## MI_martialist (Apr 13, 2016)

Interesting how most wanted told describe what they would do once they were being strangled...what about before?

BTW...I am of the firm belief that "self defense" is the biggest waste of time one can engage in...we need to work on Personal Protection...protect not defend...


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Apr 13, 2016)

MI_martialist said:


> BTW...I am of the firm belief that "self defense" is the biggest waste of time one can engage in...we need to work on Personal Protection...protect not defend...


Can you explain this? What exactly is personal protection, and how does it differ from self defense?


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## elder999 (Apr 13, 2016)

Azulx said:


> What are your favorite ways to get out of these two self-defense scenarios?



Sever the connective muscle and tendons of the offending arm(s) with my knife.


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## MI_martialist (Apr 13, 2016)

kempodisciple said:


> Can you explain this? What exactly is personal protection, and how does it differ from self defense?



Self defense...selfish.  One "defends" oneself.  Defense, too late...it is reactionary in nature.
Personal Protection...one protects what is personal...more than self?  It can and should be.  Protection involves prevention, not reactionary but rather is based on appropriate action.  We never defend, we attack...we attack the attack.

There is a lot more, but this is a good base.


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## Bill Mattocks (Apr 13, 2016)

MI_martialist said:


> Interesting how most wanted told describe what they would do once they were being strangled...what about before?



Because that's not the question the OP asked.  I, as well as most here, would probably advise someone to use their common sense and avoid being put in such a situation to begin with.  But since the OP asked what I would do if I were to find myself suddenly being gripped by the throat, that's what I answered.



> BTW...I am of the firm belief that "self defense" is the biggest waste of time one can engage in...we need to work on Personal Protection...protect not defend...



Well, that's something.


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## Danny T (Apr 13, 2016)

MI_martialist said:


> I am of the firm belief that "self defense" is the biggest waste of time one can engage in...we need to work on Personal Protection...protect not defend...



Are you aware of the definitions?
- Defend is to keep someone or something safe : to not allow a person or thing to hurt, damage or destroy someone or something
-Protect is to keep someone or something from being harmed, lost, damaged or destroyed

To protect is to defend and to defend is to protect.
They are different words with the same meaning.


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## MAfreak (Apr 13, 2016)

for the op's question: straighten one arm up in the air and turn sideways. thats it.
you may turn back to face the attacker (never turn your back to him, maybe except for running away) with a "karate chop" to his throat. seems fair.


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## MI_martialist (Apr 13, 2016)

Very aware of definitions.  There is a difference...unless we simply look at the surface of the definitions and do not drill deep enough.

How about:

Protect:  to provide a guard or shield
Defend:  to take action against attack or challenge

I see a big difference here.  One is to prevent and one is to react when something is happening.  The police do not "defend and serve", our borders are not controlled by "border defenders", our military serves to "protect" our freedoms.

Jouzai Senjou!




Danny T said:


> Are you aware of the definitions?
> - Defend is to keep someone or something safe : to not allow a person or thing to hurt, damage or destroy someone or something
> -Protect is to keep someone or something from being harmed, lost, damaged or destroyed
> 
> ...


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## drop bear (Apr 13, 2016)

Flatfish said:


> According to Rory Miller: If they are strangling you at arms length just step back (unless you are against a wall of course)



Two handed though. Not one handed.  Because two handed is a weaker grip. 

Easy enough to test.  Pick something heavy of the ground as if you were choking it.


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## drop bear (Apr 13, 2016)

MI_martialist said:


> Interesting how most wanted told describe what they would do once they were being strangled...what about before?
> 
> BTW...I am of the firm belief that "self defense" is the biggest waste of time one can engage in...we need to work on Personal Protection...protect not defend...



See.  I would have said semantics was.


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## MI_martialist (Apr 13, 2016)

drop bear said:


> See.  I would have said semantics was.



So, the meaning of words is a waste of time?


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## Flying Crane (Apr 13, 2016)

I would do a technique called "popping the duck".

Major MAJOR points to anyone who knows that reference.

Even more points if you can describe the results of said-same technique.

Hint: it's a sword technique.


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## JowGaWolf (Apr 13, 2016)

Depends on how they are grabbing you around the throat.  For me personally that's the last place I want to grab someone unless I'm trying to rip the throat.  The problem with basic throat grabs is that it's easy to defend against and most martial arts use that in their scenarios.  Depending on what you know, you can make the person release the grip or you can break the person's arm or wrist as well as strike. For me I would probably do all of the above with a focused effort to break the arm.  If someone gives me a text book attack then I'm going for a text book defense in all it's glory.


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## Danny T (Apr 13, 2016)

MI_martialist said:


> Very aware of definitions.  There is a difference...unless we simply look at the surface of the definitions and do not drill deep enough.
> 
> How about:
> 
> ...


Ok let's dig deeper and use more references.
_*Cambridge Dictionary*_
Defend: To protect someone or something from attack or harm
Protect: To keep someone or something safe from harm, injury, damage, or loss. (see Defend)


_*Merriam-Webster Dictionary*_
*Defend*:
1. to fight or work hard in order to keep something from being taken away
2. to protect from harm or danger
3. to take action against an attack or challenge; to protect from bodily injury.
*Protect*:
1. to cover or shield from exposure, injury, damage, or destruction _
2._ to defend against harm


_ 
*Dictionary.com*_
*Defend*:
To ward off attack(s); guard against assault or injury
*Protect*:
To defend or guard from attack, invasion, loss, annoyance, insult, etc.; cover or shield from injury or danger.


_*The Free Dictionary*_
*Defend*:
1.  To make or keep safe from danger, attack, or harm
2.  To engage in or be prepared to engage in battle to protect from harm
*Protect*:
To keep from being damaged, attacked, stolen, or injured; guard. (Synonymous with Defend)


_*McMillan Dictionary*_
*Defend*:
1. To protect someone or something from attack

*Protect*:
1. To keep someone or something from safe from harm, injury, or danger
2. To defend, save, or prevent damage

_*Vocabulary.com*_
*Defend*:
1.  Protect against a challenge or attack
2.  To protect or fight for someone; to resist strongly

*Protect*:
1. To shield from danger, injury, destruction, or damage
2. To defend; to be defensive or to act against an attack
_*

Oxford Dictionary*_
*Defend*:
To Resist an attack made on someone or something; to protect from harm or danger.

*Protect*:
to keep safe from harm or injury; to defend against attack*.*


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## Bill Mattocks (Apr 13, 2016)

So now we know how many holes it takes to fill the Albert Hall.


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## Bill Mattocks (Apr 13, 2016)

JowGaWolf said:


> Depends on how they are grabbing you around the throat.  For me personally that's the last place I want to grab someone unless I'm trying to rip the throat.  The problem with basic throat grabs is that it's easy to defend against and most martial arts use that in their scenarios.  Depending on what you know, you can make the person release the grip or you can break the person's arm or wrist as well as strike. For me I would probably do all of the above with a focused effort to break the arm.  If someone gives me a text book attack then I'm going for a text book defense in all it's glory.



Almost all such responses are deescalation techniques, which is fine if you are a bouncer, LEO, or other such person. I'm not anymore. Someone grabs my throat, it's on like Donkey Kong. Three hits. I hit him, he hits the floor, the ambulance hits 80mph.


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## JowGaWolf (Apr 13, 2016)

Bill Mattocks said:


> Almost all such responses are deescalation techniques, which is fine if you are a bouncer, LEO, or other such person. I'm not anymore. Someone grabs my throat, it's on like Donkey Kong. Three hits. I hit him, he hits the floor, the ambulance hits 80mph.


Totally agree with you.


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## Dirty Dog (Apr 13, 2016)

Azulx said:


> What are your favorite ways to get out of these two self-defense scenarios?



Depends on about 17 bazillion variables. 
Including the phrase "get out of" in your question, to me, implies that they've already gotten hold of me. Obviously, I would have done my best to prevent them from actually applying the grip in the first place. Having failed at that, then I would (depending on the specific circumstances) end the threat. This could mean moving in such a way as to break their grip, it could mean breaking their arm, leg, or other body part, it could mean applying a sharp edge or point to various parts of their body, or it could mean treating their obvious insanity with heavy metal infusions. My personal preferred treatment would be a series of infusions delivered in rapid succession, using a combination of copper and lead delivered by the thoracic and cranial routes.


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## jks9199 (Apr 13, 2016)

Flatfish said:


> According to Rory Miller: If they are strangling you at arms length just step back (unless you are against a wall of course)


Even if you're against a wall, you can step out of it...


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## drop bear (Apr 13, 2016)

MI_martialist said:


> So, the meaning of words is a waste of time?



Ok.  Let me tell you a story. 

I was doing a self defence seminar and the subject of leg kicks came up.

Now i have done thai for a few years and could out leg kick everybody in the room.  Including the instructor. Who had no clue as to how to throw the technique he was teaching.

But because he felt the need to be the instructor he did take time out to teach me the latin name for the muscle group i was hitting.(which i forget now)

My view at the time was thank you very much captain science. But knowing the meaning of a word is not helping anybody kick the crap out of another dudes leg.


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## drop bear (Apr 13, 2016)

jks9199 said:


> Even if you're against a wall, you can step out of it...



There is some nifty footwork you can do against a wall. 

Also it is about the one place you can do the arm windmill defence and not have them just take your back.


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## Buka (Apr 13, 2016)

Bill Mattocks said:


> Almost all such responses are deescalation techniques, which is fine if you are a bouncer, LEO, or other such person. I'm not anymore. Someone grabs my throat, it's on like Donkey Kong. Three hits. I hit him, he hits the floor, the ambulance hits 80mph.



I needed a pick me up tonight. Got it, loved it.


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## Azulx (Apr 13, 2016)

What are some drills that can be used to practice escaping this situation?


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## Lameman (Apr 13, 2016)

Arm roll to an underarm armlock, kick 'im in the nuts and call him a dumb***. I remember training chokes in the army, drill sargent said, "This is what you do if you wake up spooning with the enemy."


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Apr 13, 2016)

Azulx said:


> What are some drills that can be used to practice escaping this situation?


Which situation? There are a million different scenarios where a throat grab might occur. And do you mean escaping after they're grabbing you, like you mentioned in the OP, or avoiding being grabbed/chocked?


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## Azulx (Apr 13, 2016)

kempodisciple said:


> Which situation? There are a million different scenarios where a throat grab might occur. And do you mean escaping after they're grabbing you, like you mentioned in the OP, or avoiding being grabbed/chocked?



Once you are grabbed, as in you failed to get his hand away and he has been able to wrap one or two hands around your neck.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Apr 13, 2016)

Azulx said:


> Once you are grabbed, as in you failed to get his hand away and he has been able to wrap one or two hands around your neck.


This still leaves a ton of different scenarios, but for the most part I agree with whoever mentioned that all you need to do is back up to get out of it...It's a weirdly easy thing to escape from. If your against a wall, realize that you have a limited amount of time, but if you can stay calm (probably the toughest part) you have at least one more free limb then your attacker, possibly two, so you can basically do anything to him to force him to let go.


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## Steve (Apr 13, 2016)

Flying armbar?


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## Azulx (Apr 14, 2016)

Well does anyone practice these types of escapes at their school? I mean like of course if I had a knife or something sharp at my disposal I would use it. I could also use a groin smash, eye gauge, throat strike, etc. but how do you practice these type of things? I know there is a Jizzilion different scenarios, but what are some one can practice?


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## Azulx (Apr 14, 2016)

Steve said:


> Flying armbar?



Ahh yes this and a secret black belt move I was taught called the shotgun blast to the dome, also helps if someone is trying to strangle you.


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## Azulx (Apr 14, 2016)

Also my instructor told me that if I'm in a life or death situation, I should avoid any techniques with the word flying in them , if I value my life. XD


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## drop bear (Apr 14, 2016)

Steve said:


> Flying armbar?



Ompaloompa.


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## drop bear (Apr 14, 2016)

Azulx said:


> Well does anyone practice these types of escapes at their school? I mean like of course if I had a knife or something sharp at my disposal I would use it. I could also use a groin smash, eye gauge, throat strike, etc. but how do you practice these type of things? I know there is a Jizzilion different scenarios, but what are some one can practice?



Yes any collar tie defence will work. Some Thai clinch defence will work and judo will have all sorts of collar grip stuff that will work. I mostly just do the shoulder shuck one from the video I put up. because you can be releasing the grip while also protecting your head from punches.

I drill these anyway. They are high percentage and put me in a nice position at the end of it.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Apr 14, 2016)

Azulx said:


> Well does anyone practice these types of escapes at their school? I mean like of course if I had a knife or something sharp at my disposal I would use it. I could also use a groin smash, eye gauge, throat strike, etc. but how do you practice these type of things? I know there is a Jizzilion different scenarios, but what are some one can practice?


I don't think you fully understand what I am trying to say, and I'm bad at explaining things, so going to break it down concretely.
A: Since there are a million different situation where this occurs, there is no drill that can really cover all of them.
B: Despite that, in 90% of the situations, you can just literally back up out of it if you want to.
C: If you don't want to/can't walk out and want to hurt the person as long as you can remain calm, you are in a much better position than the person trying to choke you.
D: You're style also likely has escapes from this choke, and since it is so easy to escape from assuming you manage to remain calm and work quickly, there isn't really a reason to go around and find other escape methods.

As far a direct answer, practicing the first two moves in this defense/escape is pretty useful and easy. My favorite way to react in drills where I am being choked.


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## MAfreak (Apr 14, 2016)

in that last video he does like i meant it, arm up, turning sideways and come back. he does an elbow strike, i said same with an hand strike, but whatever. this works no matter if one handed, two handed, against the wall, from the front, from the side, from behind. there's no time for martial ARTS in self-defense. keep it simple or you might forget which of your 1000 possible techniques to use in the heat of the moment.


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## Bill Mattocks (Apr 14, 2016)

Azulx said:


> What are some drills that can be used to practice escaping this situation?



There are about a bazillion escapes from a wrist grab, lapel grab, throat grab scenario.  Really.






Most of the techniques shown by "Master Ken" in his comedy video for wrist grabs can be translated to throat grabs.  Including the last one.


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## Bill Mattocks (Apr 14, 2016)

Azulx said:


> Well does anyone practice these types of escapes at their school? I mean like of course if I had a knife or something sharp at my disposal I would use it. I could also use a groin smash, eye gauge, throat strike, etc. but how do you practice these type of things? I know there is a Jizzilion different scenarios, but what are some one can practice?



You can practice all of them if you have an uke and you move carefully.  If you don't have sufficient control to avoid injuring your uke, learn control first.


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## Danny T (Apr 14, 2016)

Bill Mattocks said:


> So now we know how many holes it takes to fill the Albert Hall.


Point made.


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## Azulx (Apr 14, 2016)

Bill Mattocks said:


> You can practice all of them if you have an uke and you move carefully. If you don't have sufficient control to avoid injuring your uke, learn control first.



What is uke?


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## Jaeimseu (Apr 14, 2016)

Azulx said:


> What is uke?


Your partner.


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## Azulx (Apr 14, 2016)

Jaeimseu said:


> Your partner.


Is that a Korean or Japanese term?


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## Bill Mattocks (Apr 14, 2016)

Azulx said:


> Is that a Korean or Japanese term?



Japanese.  Training partner.


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## Dirty Dog (Apr 14, 2016)

It's Japanese and means something like "one who receives a technique."
One step sparring is common in TKD schools. Typically, the person who would be considered uke would be the one attacking. Tori would be the defender, who responds to the attack with whatever counter is being trained.






In this clip, the person punching would be uke. The person blocking and counter-striking would be tori.

And in keeping with another thread that involves one-step sparring, this is about how we do it. The ranges are such that if you fail to block, the strike will make contact. Punches that stop 2 feet from your body don't teach you anything about countering a punch.

#3 in this video is actually the very first one-step technique we teach.


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## Steve (Apr 14, 2016)

Azulx said:


> Ahh yes this and a secret black belt move I was taught called the shotgun blast to the dome, also helps if someone is trying to strangle you.


Are you suggesting that the flying armbar is a secret, black belt technique?


Azulx said:


> Also my instructor told me that if I'm in a life or death situation, I should avoid any techniques with the word flying in them , if I value my life. XD


why?  Did you see drop bears post? 



drop bear said:


> Ompaloompa.


clearly, based upon this demonstration of the flying omoplata, there can be no question it is a reliable and effective technique.  Flying armbar would be equally effective.


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## RTKDCMB (Apr 16, 2016)

Maybe you should ask this guy:


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