# Stance Work



## wingchun100 (May 9, 2014)

Went to class last night. My main problem is still that damn stance work. Sifu said that I'm basically taking my Sil Lum Tao stance and turning it. I'm not bringing the attitude needed. When I pivot to the left or right in Chum Kiu, I am too upright. He said I'm not bringing the right "attitude" to the stance. Adduction goes to crap. I tried working on it the whole class, and by the end I didn't even hear him say, "Now you are getting the idea."

I know it was addressed only for one night, and I am NOT saying he should praise me if I really wasn't getting it, but at the same time it left me feeling like I don't even know what to do to progress in the right direction. Honestly, I don't even know where that leaves me because I don't want to keep practicing the wrong thing until I get back to class.

Maybe it's time to just work nothing but Sil Lum Tao...really feel out that stance, then try just facing left and right.


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## billc (May 9, 2014)

Don't sweat it so much.   Training is a process...it may feel horrible today, tomorrow or for a long time, but as you keep working it, it will one day click and you will get it.  Look long term to get past short term problems in your training...and have fun.


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## wingchun100 (May 9, 2014)

I try to keep it lighthearted, fun, and enjoyable...but when I can't improve at all, it gets annoying. Kind of like when you play a video game and there's that one part you keep dying at. You turned the game on to enjoy yourself, but you wind up getting annoyed again. It also doesn't help when I start thinking about all the time I missed. I was a super devoted student from 1995 to 1997. Then something happened...I don't even know what. I got into this weird funk. Driving to class felt like I was driving to work, so I would turn around and head home. Every now and then I think about all those years of inconsistency, and I wonder how good I'd be now if I had maintained the devotion.

I try to not let it get the better of me. I try to tell myself, "Well, you're back in it now so stop worrying about the missed time and get back in the game." Sometimes it works...sometimes it doesn't. But I keep going whenever I can which, unfortunately, is only once a week AT BEST these days. (Earning crappy wages while being a dad of 4 can do that to a fellow. LOL)


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## Marnetmar (May 9, 2014)

Do you have a photo of you in the WC horse stance by chance? How have you been doing your shifting in Chum Kiu?


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## wingchun100 (May 9, 2014)

Marnetmar said:


> Do you have a photo of you in the WC horse stance by chance? How have you been doing your shifting in Chum Kiu?



Poorly. LOL

No picture on hand.


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## mook jong man (May 9, 2014)

Is he saying that it is your weight distribution that is wrong as you pivot to 90 degrees?

Imagine a vertical axis running down the center of your body that your body will rotate around , if you are only pivoting to 45 degrees each side the body weight will tend to be evenly distributed to both feet.

As we pivot to 90 degrees to each side as in Chum Kiu that vertical axis will naturally shift a large percentage of the body weight to the back foot.

I tell my students to keep their back straight and visualize the vertical axis running through their body as they pivot to 90 degrees and this usually helps them get the weight distribution correct.


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## wingchun100 (May 9, 2014)

mook jong man said:


> Is he saying that it is your weight distribution that is wrong as you pivot to 90 degrees?
> 
> Imagine a vertical axis running down the center of your body that your body will rotate around , if you are only pivoting to 45 degrees each side the body weight will tend to be evenly distributed to both feet.
> 
> ...



He is saying I don't have enough bend in my front leg, that it is too straight and I am too upright. But no matter how low I bent or THOUGHT I was bending, he never said I was starting to get it. So I don't know what more I can do.


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## mook jong man (May 9, 2014)

wingchun100 said:


> He is saying I don't have enough bend in my front leg, that it is too straight and I am too upright. But no matter how low I bent or THOUGHT I was bending, he never said I was starting to get it. So I don't know what more I can do.



Just practice slow pivoting from side to side to only 45 degrees , this will help you find your center.
Really work on staying sunk down and imagine you are trying to screw yourself down into the ground.

Then go back and do the full 90 degree pivot under the supervision of your Sifu.


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## donald1 (May 9, 2014)

i don't know what the stance sil lum tao stance (never heard of it) is it a Chinese name? but regardless stances are stances i could tell you how something though. it sounds like one of those moments when an instructor gives an answer but that answer is not quite understood. that could be how he learned it, sometimes it helps (maybe a lot of times or even most of the time) but sometimes you have to just do it right and figure it out yourself. practicing it a bunch of times will help, eventually it will end up right. yet don't over think it. once you start getting a general idea it will get easier and the more you get it down right the simpler and more natural it gets. if this dosnt help then maybe over time you will find your own method. (just practice and be patient)

best of luck


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## Marnetmar (May 9, 2014)

donald1 said:


> i don't know what the stance sil lum tao stance (never heard of it) is it a Chinese name? but regardless stances are stances i could tell you how something though. it sounds like one of those moments when an instructor gives an answer but that answer is not quite understood. that could be how he learned it, sometimes it helps (maybe a lot of times or even most of the time) but sometimes you have to just do it right and figure it out yourself. practicing it a bunch of times will help, eventually it will end up right. yet don't over think it. once you start getting a general idea it will get easier and the more you get it down right the simpler and more natural it gets. if this dosnt help then maybe over time you will find your own method. (just practice and be patient)
> 
> best of luck



SLT refers to our horse stance that we use between shifts since we stay in that stance for our first form, which is called SLT. It's Chinese for "Little Idea"


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## wingchun100 (May 9, 2014)

donald1 said:


> i don't know what the stance sil lum tao stance (never heard of it) is it a Chinese name? but regardless stances are stances i could tell you how something though. it sounds like one of those moments when an instructor gives an answer but that answer is not quite understood. that could be how he learned it, sometimes it helps (maybe a lot of times or even most of the time) but sometimes you have to just do it right and figure it out yourself. practicing it a bunch of times will help, eventually it will end up right. yet don't over think it. once you start getting a general idea it will get easier and the more you get it down right the simpler and more natural it gets. if this dosnt help then maybe over time you will find your own method. (just practice and be patient)
> 
> best of luck



Obviously I don't understand it or I would have taken what he said and applied it, and he would have said, "NOW you got it!" LOL


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## Marnetmar (May 9, 2014)

The fact that your sifu doesn't describe what you're doing incorrectly in practical terms is a bit suspicious in my personal opinion. It could be how he was taught though.


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## donald1 (May 9, 2014)

Marnetmar said:


> SLT refers to our horse stance that we use between shifts since we stay in that stance for our first form, which is called SLT. It's Chinese for "Little Idea"



oh... i know that one... in my school its shiko dachi stance


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## donald1 (May 9, 2014)

in my school its called shiko dachi stance I'm very familiar with that stance
i have had had problems similar to this one in my class, marnetmar brings up a good point. perhaps you could ask your sifu what needs fixing. i bet its frustrating (i have been there done that) yet the problem cant be fixed until you know what your doing wrong

keep us posted, best of luck


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## wingchun100 (May 9, 2014)

Marnetmar said:


> The fact that your sifu doesn't describe what you're doing incorrectly in practical terms is a bit suspicious in my personal opinion. It could be how he was taught though.



Just because I don't get it doesn't mean he isn't communicating properly. Look at the others who have responded to this thread and had a good grasp of what he meant.


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## Xue Sheng (May 9, 2014)

wingchun100 said:


> Went to class last night. My main problem is still that damn stance work. Sifu said that I'm basically taking my Sil Lum Tao stance and turning it. I'm not bringing the attitude needed. When I pivot to the left or right in Chum Kiu, I am too upright. He said I'm not bringing the right "attitude" to the stance. Adduction goes to crap. I tried working on it the whole class, and by the end I didn't even hear him say, "Now you are getting the idea."
> 
> I know it was addressed only for one night, and I am NOT saying he should praise me if I really wasn't getting it, but at the same time it left me feeling like I don't even know what to do to progress in the right direction. Honestly, I don't even know where that leaves me because I don't want to keep practicing the wrong thing until I get back to class.
> 
> Maybe it's time to just work nothing but Sil Lum Tao...really feel out that stance, then try just facing left and right.




I was with my taiji shifu for years before he finally said...."Good job"... I was just happy he was not correcting me as much (and he was correcting others) He just is not big on talking. like his shifu was. And like his shifu if you were not practicing and you came and did the same things wrong over and over again he would not correct you at all

I know your shifu and he's a good one, take the corrections and be happy he gave them to you, it shows he actually thinks you are worth correcting.


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## wingchun100 (May 9, 2014)

Xue Sheng said:


> I was with my taiji shifu for years before he finally said...."Good job"... I was just happy he was not correcting me as much (and he was correcting others) He just is not big on talking. like his shifu was. And like his shifu if you were not practicing and you came and did the same things wrong over and over again he would not correct you at all
> 
> I know your shifu and he's a good one, take the corrections and be happy he gave them to you, it shows he actually thinks you are worth correcting.



I know. I'm not mad at him. I'm mad at myself for not getting it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mook jong man (May 9, 2014)

The fact that you are aware that you are too high in your stance means that you are at least halfway there to fixing the problem.

When you are practising the form look down occasionally and see that your knees are just over your toes , of course there are slight variations due to differences in individual anatomy.

But this is still quite a good rule of thumb to ensure that you are sinking your weight down to the correct level.


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## ST1Doppelganger (May 9, 2014)

wingchun100 said:


> I know. I'm not mad at him. I'm mad at myself for not getting it.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



It's not a simple fix so don't be frustrated with your self. Kung Fu means skill learned over a long period of time requiring allot of hard work and I'm sure that most senior martial artist will agree that stance and root takes years of experience to even start getting to half way where it should be. Don't worry one day it will just click & connect and you will be like there it is and have a big goofy grin on your your face. Thats of course if you keep on practicing.

PS I still do Stance Work to develop a better root and connection in my stances on a daily basis and recently had a major break thru in my root after doing martial arts for 18+ years. 


I'm A Martial Artist Not A Jock Artist.


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## Takai (May 10, 2014)

wingchun100 said:


> I know. I'm not mad at him. I'm mad at myself for not getting it.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Plateaus in training happen. I have fought and fought trying to get something "correct" and then all of a sudden it just "makes" sense. Most of the times I couldn't tell you what I did different or why I finally "got" it. Just keep at it and be patient with yourself.

Enjoy the Journey.


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## Marnetmar (May 10, 2014)

If you're having trouble getting lower in your stance, try doing some achilles stretches. My stance is pretty high and it's because my achilles tendon is very tight. You could try standing and placing one foot flat against the wall.


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## wingchun100 (May 12, 2014)

UPDATE ON THIS SITUATION: After taking some video of myself and watching the way I pivot to the left and right now, I can see better what Sifu means. Also, I thought more about what he said: "You're basically taking your sil lum tao stance and turning it." So in SLT, my weight is evenly on both legs. Sifu favors a 70-30 weight distribution (70 back, 30 front). So I took another video of me placing more weight forward, and guess what? The front leg was bent more. So I posted the video for him to see, and he said, "Still needs a lot of work, but it's improving." So I think I was putting too much weight back.


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## geezer (May 12, 2014)

wingchun100 said:


> UPDATE ON THIS SITUATION: ... Sifu favors a 70-30 weight distribution (70 back, 30 front). So I took another video of me placing more weight forward, and guess what? The front leg was bent more. So I posted the video for him to see, and he said, "Still needs a lot of work, but it's improving." So I think I was putting too much weight back.



Our branch favors a strongly back-weighted stance, like 100% or at least 90% of the weight on the back leg. But guess what? We also keep our front leg bent and adducted, just like in YGKYM, except turned so that the feet are parallel at a 45degree angle.

My point? Simply that the _same_ structure is necessary, in fact _especially_ necessary  when you are strongly back-weighted.


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## wingchun100 (May 12, 2014)

geezer said:


> Our branch favors a strongly back-weighted stance, like 100% or at least 90% of the weight on the back leg. But guess what? We also keep our front leg bent and adducted, just like in YGKYM, except turned so that the feet are parallel at a 45degree angle.
> 
> My point? Simply that the _same_ structure is necessary, in fact _especially_ necessary  when you are strongly back-weighted.



I'm not saying any other weight distribution is wrong. I just meant that this seemed to solve my problem, or at least START me on the road to a solution.


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## OzPaul (May 13, 2014)

I was having a few dramas pivoting in CK until my Sifu said don't worry too much about the weight distribution, you just need to be able to lift your front leg without moving in your stance. So basically be able to kick without giving off any signs you are about to. After hearing this my CK pivoting wasn't a problem any more.  It made me sink more when in the ygkym stance in SLT also.


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## wingchun100 (May 13, 2014)

OzPaul said:


> I was having a few dramas pivoting in CK until my Sifu said don't worry too much about the weight distribution, you just need to be able to lift your front leg without moving in your stance. So basically be able to kick without giving off any signs you are about to. After hearing this my CK pivoting wasn't a problem any more.  It made me sink more when in the ygkym stance in SLT also.



I posted a video of myself pivoting with this new weight distribution idea in mind, and Sifu said it was progressing. That is the first time he has said that in ages. Then again, the video showed me just doing the pivot. Now that I think about it, I wonder if it will allow me to (as you said) kick without telegraphing. I will have to try that out.


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