# Looking for a more defensive Art than offensive...



## dre38w (Oct 13, 2008)

First off I want to say the reason I want to learn Martial Arts.  I took Karate before and I enjoyed it but I was very young and I was not a calm child.  Now I am a lot calmer than I was back then.  Never the less I have always been fascinated with Martial Arts.  My favorite art is Muay Thai but I do NOT want to learn that because I am afraid I might hurt someone or something like that because it is such a brutal art.  And I don't want to have the knowledge of being able to cause someone else pain.  I really do little in life and I think learning a Martial Art would not only give me something to do but I would be more fit than I am and I am also hoping it will help me learn to be more calm.  And I want to be able to be calm in intense situations.  I am going to be honest I am not a violent person but I do have somewhat of a short fuse and I am trying to make myself a better person.  I am wondering if any Martial Arts teach you tranquility...I am pretty sure there will be intense moments and I want to be able to stay calm not just from anger or anything but from nervousness too and fear and such.  I want to be able to control my emotions.  And of course I want to be able to protect myself or who ever is with me if a situation comes up but I don't want to hurt the person.  So basically those are my reasons there.
I looked into some Arts that delt with grapples and take downs and very little attacks.  I don't know much about it but I was wondering if anyone had a suggestion as to an Art that deals with very little attacks and more countering and defense and deffensive attacks and such.  I would be much thankful for anyone's feedback.
Also, I appreciate the ones that made it through this huge paragraph here and I appologize for writing so much.  =)


----------



## jks9199 (Oct 13, 2008)

dre38w said:


> First off I want to say the reason I want to learn Martial Arts.  I took Karate before and I enjoyed it but I was very young and I was not a calm child.  Now I am a lot calmer than I was back then.  Never the less I have always been fascinated with Martial Arts.  My favorite art is Muay Thai but I do NOT want to learn that because I am afraid I might hurt someone or something like that because it is such a brutal art.  And I don't want to have the knowledge of being able to cause someone else pain.  I really do little in life and I think learning a Martial Art would not only give me something to do but I would be more fit than I am and I am also hoping it will help me learn to be more calm.  And I want to be able to be calm in intense situations.  I am going to be honest I am not a violent person but I do have somewhat of a short fuse and I am trying to make myself a better person.  I am wondering if any Martial Arts teach you tranquility...I am pretty sure there will be intense moments and I want to be able to stay calm not just from anger or anything but from nervousness too and fear and such.  I want to be able to control my emotions.  And of course I want to be able to protect myself or who ever is with me if a situation comes up but I don't want to hurt the person.  So basically those are my reasons there.
> I looked into some Arts that delt with grapples and take downs and very little attacks.  I don't know much about it but I was wondering if anyone had a suggestion as to an Art that deals with very little attacks and more countering and defense and deffensive attacks and such.  I would be much thankful for anyone's feedback.
> Also, I appreciate the ones that made it through this huge paragraph here and I appologize for writing so much.  =)


There's no *realistic* martial art that doesn't include learning how to hurt someone and cause pain.  That's just a simple fact of life; martial means military or warlike.  There are stories of very great masters of some styles (including the Bando Monk System) who were so skilled that they could subdue people reliably without causing them more than minimal pain -- but they're few and far between.

If you're looking simply to develop tranquility, that's really separate from fighting skills.  Some martial arts include this sort of thing, and others do it as a side effect -- but you'll need to hunt very carefully.  Most of those who promise this through their martial art are full of crap, to be blunt about it.  They're building cults -- not training and developing people.

You may want to consider the internal arts, judging by some of your goals.  Some people practice tai chi chuan/taiji with this goal in mind, and there are people who practice aikido with a much heavier spiritual emphasis.  I'll let those with more direct and personal knowledge speak to this.


----------



## theletch1 (Oct 13, 2008)

I've recently repped you, Jim, so the system wouldn't allow it for your post here.  Excellent post.

As for aikido (me being an aikido-ka)... it is certainly an internal style and in the vast majority of cases purely defensive.  Keep in mind, however, that unless you find a school that is little more than a meditation hall you WILL learn how to hurt people.  As a matter of fact, it was not until I began to become proficient in aikido that I truly understood how many different types of pain there were and just how well you could control the amount of pain that you apply to an attacker.  Now, I must admit that I study a style of aikido that has a bit more of a rough attitude than many and the idea of having to hurt someone is a large part of what we do.  It's a self defense style that is very light on the spirituality.  There are other styles of aikido, however, that run the other way.

Your aversion to wanting to have the knowledge to hurt someone is admirable but remember that for most people (I include myself here) the more proficient you become at hurting people the less likely you are to do so.  Good luck.


----------



## hogstooth (Oct 13, 2008)

I appreciate your problem. I was thrown into the MA at an early age because my dad was an instructor. He was the type of guy to tell you never to run from a fight and never back down. I never had a problem with that until I met my wife and I started to go to church. I started looking at the arts in a new way. Yes you are training to hurt someone else so that case can be made. But you are also training to protect yourself and those you love. You are getting physically fit and making new friends in the process. 
MA's is martial and therefore combative in nature but your fellow students are there to train just like you are and besides the occasional student with bad judgement your fellow students don't come to class with the intent of hurting you nor should you.
There are many good aspects of the arts that can be learned such as humility, honesty, integrity, discipline, respect and courtesy among others. 
If you are looking for an art that has no contact you are at a loss I think. Maybe Tai Chi but I have heard they practice contact also. 
You mentioned Self Defense instead of Offense. All MA's are for SD. Most Okinawan and Japanese Karate styles live by the saying "Karate Ni Sente Nashi" which means there is no first strike in Karate. This is the essence of self defense. 
Good luck in your pursuit and God Bless.


----------



## Cirdan (Oct 14, 2008)

Aikido, Tai Chi, Ju Jutsu and Wado Ryu Karate are all arts that focus on control and have a core that can be described as defensive. Make no mistake however, methodical destruction and extinguishing of life is still very much part of those arts. Shito Ryu Karate is also said to be a defensive art but I have not discussed this with a practicioner so don`t take my word for it.

Training in ma to get calmer is kind of a yin and yang thing. You must know violence intimately to be free from its influence.


----------



## kaizasosei (Oct 14, 2008)

i agree with the above post, , it may sound weird, but i believe that the most defensive positions are the most offensive and the most offensive are often the most defensive.  defense and offense must be matched to the threat at hand.  if you are in a certain match, then there may be techniques you need not worry about defending against.  in reality, however, one must be ready for anything and be able to some degree to defend against many threats including being offensive in order maintain security, if it absolutely needs be.

taichi or aikido might be what you are looking for.


----------



## tshadowchaser (Oct 14, 2008)

aikido  and judo are less strike and kick and may be used more as a defence


----------



## kaizasosei (Oct 14, 2008)

completely agree.  just that i am coming to perceive judo(or the way it is often practiced) as quite rambunctious, very tough with lots of contact and hitting the floor hard-which can be sometimes even nastier than some striking..


----------



## hpulley (Oct 14, 2008)

Judo as the 'gentle way' and aikido may be what you're looking for but if you throw an untrained uke on a hard surface you will probably hurt them worse than if you punched them in the head.  In fact, I think that sport judo's lack of training in blocks makes it less useful for self defence as planning on taking punches until you can throw your opponent or put them in a lock/triangle is asking to get yourself knocked out.  I know that old full judo contained strikes and blocks and the kata still contains them but most judo clubs just teach the legal sport judo techniques which do not include any strikes or blocks because they are illegal in judo tournaments.  Aikido sort of attempts to avoid harming the attacker but that is different from other arts only because hundreds of years ago they were almost always taught and fought as a way of killing the attacker.  Just maiming them or knockng them out is quite merciful by comparison.  Most old jujutsu fights ended in death, usually in seconds.

It is difficult to train for blocks if you don't also train for strikes as you need to train with a partner... who hopefully knows how to strike.  The best way to defend yourself and others is to disable the attacker as quickly as possible which usually involves a strike or lock to a vital part of the body or a very hard throw (all the locations which are illegal for strikes in MMA are the best to hit: eyes, groin, throat, spine, brain stem, kidneys, etc.).  If you are fast you can run away but that isn't always an option.

Honestly, the best way to avoid a fight is to look like someone you shouldn't pick a fight with.  The confidence and way of holding yourself because you know how to defend yourself is worth a lot in doing this.


----------



## foggymorning162 (Oct 14, 2008)

As others have said all MA are suposed to be defensive, but you are still going to learn how to hurt someone. While learning how you should also learn the control not to. It sounds like you are looking for something more towards Tia Chi though.


----------



## still learning (Oct 14, 2008)

Hello,  JUDO is what you are looking for.

Judo can go both ways.....you can gentle throw someone? ...or throw'em down!

JUDO...the gentle art!

Aloha,


----------



## JadecloudAlchemist (Oct 14, 2008)

Every art is going to have some level of hurting someone. But thats normal you do what you have to do to make it home. 

Practicing martial arts does inform you of methods to protect yourself which could result in harming another person in self defense.

Learning restraint and the correct level of application is more important then trying to avoid protecting yourself.


----------



## girlbug2 (Oct 15, 2008)

Learning to defend oneself without causing the attacker any pain? Sounds like a Jedi Mind Trick. If you find a school that teaches that technique,...where do I sign up?!

Seriously though, my experience in American Kenpo emphasized that the techniques do not work unless the attacker attempted a first move; in other words, they are for defensive purposes. As, I suspect, are all the other styles. AK did not teach me to be more aggressive, it taught me to defend myself if I should need to. Believe me, I still have never picked a fight to this day. However I now have a much better chance of walking away from an attack. Is that what you're looking for?


----------



## Kosho Gakkusei (Oct 15, 2008)

Sounds like Kosho Shorei Ryu Kempo might be a good fit for you.  The emphasis of Kosho Ryu is on escaping arts.  Escaping arts utilize footwork, timing, and eye training to avoid confrontation altogether.  In Kosho Ryu escaping arts are looked at as the highest form of martial arts.  Next level down are the controlling arts which use locks, throws, and controlling strikes to deal with an attack and inflict minimal damage on the attacker.  The destructive arts are also studied as there are times that they would be neccessary and appropriate.

Here's some schools.
http://www.skski.net/dojos.html

_Don Flatt


----------

