# what are we doing to our children



## Tgace (Aug 12, 2013)

I just saw this article on FB.

http://www.southvalleyjournal.com/p...-with-four-felony-counts-for--homemade-bombs/



> The reigning Miss Riverton, Kendra Gill, who was arrested in the early hours of August 3, along with three friends, Bruce Stone, Shanna Smith and John Reagh, for suspicion of making and detonating homemade explosive devises in Riverton, has now been charged with four felony second degree felony counts of use of an incendiary devise. Each count carries a maximum sentence of 1-15 years in prison.



What these "bombs" are are called Pressure Bombs, or Works Bombs/Draino bombs. In a nutshell, chemicals that produce gasses are put in a plastic bottle that expands and "pops"/explodes.






In the military we used to make these out of MRE heaters and toss em at each other...great fun unless an NCO caught you. Which only resulted in a chewing out....not felony charges. 

While I don't recommend letting your kids do this I think that statements from officials describing these things as being analogous to pipe bombs are overblown. While the chemicals used can make a big difference in the danger of whats sprayed out of them they are not really "bombs" in the "put these kids in prison" sense. If property is damaged or someone is injured sure...arrest them. But felony charges for making explosives is really more for Boston marathon style bombs...not these.


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## Tgace (Aug 12, 2013)

http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/the-bomb-boys-book-project



> 3) Good kids are being convicted of life-changing felonies for more trivial devices, many of which are simple like dry ice, acid, and Drano &#8220;bombs.&#8221;  None of these contain explosives.   Cases occur daily.  Last week, five boys, aged 13 to 15, were charged with &#8220;criminal use of a weapon of mass destruction,&#8221; a Class C felony in Kentucky, carrying a possible 5 &#8211; 10-year sentence, for a chemical &#8220;bomb.&#8221;  I have never heard of a fatality from a chemical pressure bomb&#8212;a &#8220;weapon of mass destruction.&#8221;  Yes, fatalities can happen, but &#8220;pressure bombs&#8221; are far from WMD.  Roman candles are more perilous.



Which is an interesting point when kids may be getting charged with "bomb felonies" in states where possession/detonation of an M-80 would either be legal or a simple violation.


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## granfire (Aug 12, 2013)

Oh he**....don't you know that poptart could go off in your hand?

It's only 10AM...to early to get drunk....

We have certainly jumped the shark.


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## Makalakumu (Aug 12, 2013)

granfire said:


> Oh he**....don't you know that poptart could go off in your hand?
> 
> It's only 10AM...to early to get drunk....
> 
> We have certainly jumped the shark.



How many Jimmy Buffett songs remind you that it's five o clock somewhere?


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## Makalakumu (Aug 12, 2013)

Tgace said:


> http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/the-bomb-boys-book-project
> 
> 
> 
> Which is an interesting point when kids may be getting charged with "bomb felonies" in states where possession/detonation of an M-80 would either be legal or a simple violation.



Ever wonder how many felonies you might have racked up if you were a kid now? The things I did thirty years ago are like describing things from a different planet.


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## granfire (Aug 12, 2013)

Makalakumu said:


> Ever wonder how many felonies you might have racked up if you were a kid now? The things I did thirty years ago are like describing things from a different planet.



Life without parole....


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## Flying Crane (Aug 12, 2013)

Makalakumu said:


> Ever wonder how many felonies you might have racked up if you were a kid now? The things I did thirty years ago are like describing things from a different planet.



I was thinking the same thing.  If my dad knew what I was up to, he would have brought thunder and lightning down upon my head.  I guess it was easier to get away with things in a small town, in the 1980s, than it is now.

I can think of any of a number of things I did as a kid that, if I did them in today's environment and got caught, I'd likely be in prison for a good while.  Nobody got hurt, no property was damaged, we were just having fun.  But yes, someone COULD have been hurt by what we were doing.  

I don't regret it.  I've got some interesting stories to tell my kid and grandkids (if I ever have any) about.


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## jks9199 (Aug 12, 2013)

While I do agree diversion or some other alternative to hammering these kids with a felony is probably in order -- I don't want to minimize the danger of these bombs.  Bottle bombs can be made numerous ways, including dry ice, drain cleaner/foil, and more.  They can pack a surprising degree of bang when they're made from soda bottles that are made to hold a fair amount of pressure before they fail explosively.  Don't discount them because they're not high tech...


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## Sukerkin (Aug 12, 2013)

:chuckles:  We used to make nitro glycerine in chemistry at school and set bottles of it off with air rifles :lol:.


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## Ken Morgan (Aug 12, 2013)

Sukerkin said:


> :chuckles:  We used to make nitro glycerine in chemistry at school and set bottles of it off with air rifles :lol:.



Sooo... how do you do make that stuff again.......?


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## Ken Morgan (Aug 12, 2013)

I guess I shouldn't have my grade two's this year make baking soda volcanos....


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## Tgace (Aug 12, 2013)

I'm not saying discount them as "safe toys"...but if that same kid with an M80 would be legal or a low level misdemeanor at worst....charging a kid up with felonies over these is preposteorus IMO.

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## pgsmith (Aug 12, 2013)

Tgace said:


> I'm not saying discount them as "safe toys"...but if that same kid with an M80 would be legal or a low level misdemeanor at worst....charging a kid up with felonies over these is preposteorus IMO.



  I agree completely. I made bombs with dry ice when I was a kid, and my eldest son did also. To charge kids with a felony for something like that is just assinine. I'm not saying it's safe or a good idea, but it's hardly something to ruin a kid's life over.


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## Sukerkin (Aug 12, 2013)

Ken Morgan said:


> Sooo... how do you do make that stuff again.......?



It was a long time ago but I don't remember it being very hard - you just had to be careful with it.  Bearing in mind my memory of some parts of my youth has been blanked by my motorcycle accident, I recall doing some distillation for nitric acid (with cooling of the resultant product being quite important to prevent premature BOOM-age).  There was some nervous stirring of the nitric acid covered in a layer of glycerine and we used sulphuric acid to 'dry' the mix and then we used sodium bicarb to stabalise it.

That's very vague I know but this was thirty five years ago :O.

Of course, in those days we also used to play with liquid mercury on the lab tables, have radiation sources laying around, play 'flame-throwers' with the gas taps and throw huge lumps of sodium and potassium down the sinks :lol:.


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## DennisBreene (Aug 12, 2013)

Sukerkin said:


> It was a long time ago but I don't remember it being very hard - you just had to be careful with it.  Bearing in mind my memory of some parts of my youth has been blanked by my motorcycle accident, I recall doing some distillation for nitric acid (with cooling of the resultant product being quite important to prevent premature BOOM-age).  There was some nervous stirring of the nitric acid covered in a layer of glycerine and we used sulphuric acid to 'dry' the mix and then we used sodium bicarb to stabalise it.
> 
> That's very vague I know but this was thirty five years ago :O.
> 
> Of course, in those days we also used to play with liquid mercury on the lab tables, have radiation sources laying around, play 'flame-throwers' with the gas taps and throw huge lumps of sodium and potassium down the sinks :lol:.


Wish I could have gone to your school. We weren't allowed to do anything cool.


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## Makalakumu (Aug 12, 2013)

Ken Morgan said:


> Sooo... how do you do make that stuff again.......?



I think you just summoned the NSA.


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## Steve (Aug 12, 2013)

Makalakumu said:


> I think you just summoned the NSA.



I think you guys should bookmark this thread to inform your posts in the threads regarding trayvon Martin.


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## Makalakumu (Aug 12, 2013)

Steve said:


> I think you guys should bookmark this thread to inform your posts in the threads regarding Trayvon Martin.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD



I lost a few friends who made bad decisions back in the day.  One of my friends rode in the back of a pick-up when he knew the driver was drunk.  This lapse of judgement cost him his life.  It's no different for Trayvon.  The lapse of judgement that caused him to assault a grown man cost him his life.  When you live in a free society, these kinds of things can happen.  People can make bad decisions and pay the ultimate price for them.  In today's super nanny society, if someone ever makes a bad decisions, society tries to take away people's ability to make bad decisions.  I think the same principle applies to TM.  Some people can't stand it knowning that TM lived in a society where he could actually suffer for his bad decision...so they try to throw everyone's right to self defense down the toilet.  

Whereas, back in the past, people might have said, "Ya poor dumb kid.  Why'd ya do that and get killed?"


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## Tgace (Aug 12, 2013)

Making "pop bottle bombs" is analogous to assaulting a stranger???


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## Ken Morgan (Aug 12, 2013)

Makalakumu said:


> I think you just summoned the NSA.



LOL. I was going to say that too bad I live in Canada, but they would likely contact our spy agency!
Seriously, all the information is easily found online if you really want it. Use proxy servers, VPN, WI FI in a coffee shop, lots of ways to hide.


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## Steve (Aug 12, 2013)

Makalakumu said:


> I lost a few friends who made bad decisions back in the day.  One of my friends rode in the back of a pick-up when he knew the driver was drunk.  This lapse of judgement cost him his life.  It's no different for Trayvon.  The lapse of judgement that caused him to assault a grown man cost him his life.  When you live in a free society, these kinds of things can happen.  People can make bad decisions and pay the ultimate price for them.  In today's super nanny society, if someone ever makes a bad decisions, society tries to take away people's ability to make bad decisions.  I think the same principle applies to TM.  Some people can't stand it knowning that TM lived in a society where he could actually suffer for his bad decision...so they try to throw everyone's right to self defense down the toilet.
> 
> Whereas, back in the past, people might have said, "Ya poor dumb kid.  Why'd ya do that and get killed?"


I think you completely misunderstand.  My point was that before rushing to label tm as a criminal in training, perhaps some people could be a little more self aware.  Clearly TM's poor judgement cost him his life.  But also clearly, many of the fine, upstanding people on this board were other than little angels in their youth.  It's the hypocrisy that I think warrants bookmarking in this thread.

Course, to your point, Zimmerman is also responsible for his lack of judgement and poor decisions.  But that wasn't where I was headed.

This thread is a darkly funny confession by some of the very same people who were quick to write off TM as having amply earned death.  I believe he was no more deserving than you guys, who admit to acting like idiots, risking your own lives and the lives of others in your younger days.  Or the kids who died in the past while being foolish.

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## Tgace (Aug 12, 2013)

What about "kids" who rob 7-11's and get killed?

I find this analogy a stretch. Being "stupid" by blowing things up in a field is orders of magnitude different from intentional application of violence onto another person...


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## Steve (Aug 13, 2013)

Any indication that tm robbed a 7-11?  Can you post a link to that article?  

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## Sukerkin (Aug 13, 2013)

Gently please, gentlemen; you're on the verge of being argumentative and silly for no good reason {yes, I KNOW it's the internet but still :lol:}.  Bringing stretchy analogies into threads where they don't belong is not really very effective in making a point or conducive to good conversation or meaningful discourse.

Oh and don't run with scissors and always look both ways before crossing the road


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## jks9199 (Aug 13, 2013)

Let's maybe pull off of Trayvon Martin and more to the general... Are we hitting kids with some pretty serious charges (like a felony for a bottle bomb) for what really amounts to kid stuff?


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## arnisador (Aug 13, 2013)

jks9199 said:


> Are we hitting kids with some pretty serious charges (like a felony for a bottle bomb) for what really amounts to kid stuff?



Yes. I can imagine many cases where even a simple home-made "bomb" like this might merit serious charges, but we need to differentiate. In general, though, yes--we're just ruining too many kids' lives at an early age and then complaining when they grow up to be adult criminals for lack of better options, as we're also locking too many people out of even routine jobs because of background checks and lawsuit paranoia.


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## Steve (Aug 14, 2013)

I think that, in general, we need to remember that teenagers are still learning important life lessons.  

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## granfire (Aug 14, 2013)

Steve said:


> I think that, in general, we need to remember that teenagers are still learning important life lessons.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD



what what are the lessons to be learned from charges like this?
Never think outside the box?
Play it safe?
Conform?


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## Steve (Aug 14, 2013)

What are you talking about?


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