# Looking for ... in northern Colorado



## MyrddinEmrys (May 5, 2015)

I now live in northern Colorado and would like to know if anyone knows of anyone who teaches bagua in the general area of Fort Collins/Loveland/Greeley.  I know there's a couple places in Boulder, but would prefer to find something a bit closer.  I haven't found any schools online, but I might have missed something, and I know sometimes people teach in their homes and don't have actual schools, etc.  I do have some experience with Cheng and Gao style bagua, so I'd probably prefer something similar, but realize that might not be an option.  

Also, and this one I know is a long shot, if anyone knows someone or is themselves familiar with the goddess of mercy (quan nien/kwan yin, I've seen two or three spellings) qigong taught by Glenn Wilson and John Weninger's (sp?) branches of Pai Lum who'd be willing to teach me the rest of the form (I'm a few moves short of the end of the fifth section), that would be awesome.  There are several white dragon/pai lum schools in Colorado, but from what I can tell they are all associated with Anthony Galliano (sp?) and appear to be more kenpo than kung fu.  I have watched them practice and talked to 2 teachers still associated and one who broke away and none have heard of it.  

I'm not sure if this is the right place for this since the description for the internal arts forum only says taichi and qigong.  If there's a better place to ask, then let me know.


----------



## elder999 (May 7, 2015)

I'd contact the Pai Lum and Bagua schools in Boulder and Denver, and ask them....of course, if you're in Ft. Collins, Boulder isn't such a long drive for training....


----------



## Xue Sheng (May 7, 2015)

I know nothing about this school other than it is in Fort Collins and claims to teach Baguazhang

FC Shaolin Kung-fu
Fort Collins, CO

However the multitude of styles that it teaches does concern me a bit

In your search, if you have not already been doing this, you may also want to search under alternate spellings

Bagua quan, Bagua zhang, Pakua chang, Pa-kua chang


----------



## elder999 (May 7, 2015)

Xue Sheng said:


> I know nothing about this school other than it is in Fort Collins and claims to teach Baguazhang
> 
> FC Shaolin Kung-fu
> Fort Collins, CO
> ...



That's Sin Kwang The's bunch.......*stay away*; they're a pretty much harmless bunch of frauds.....in this case "pretty much harmless" is one of the most insulting things I can say about a martial arts school-may as well say _pretty much *useless*_


----------



## Xue Sheng (May 7, 2015)

elder999 said:


> That's Sin Kwang The's bunch.......*stay away*; they're a pretty much harmless bunch of frauds.....in this case "pretty much harmless" is one of the most insulting things I can say about a martial arts school-may as well say _pretty much *useless*_



oops sorry, I did not realize that was Shaolin-Do..... I apologize for even posting it..... like I said, I know nothing about this school other than it is in Fort Collins and claims to teach Baguazhang... now I find that claim highly suspect.... and whole heartedly agree...stay away

However it does explain the complete lack of lineage on a CMA page.


----------



## MyrddinEmrys (May 7, 2015)

I have seen the Fort Collins Shaolin-Do site before, and, yeah, the vast number of styles supposedly taught there made me suspicious, so I researched Sin Kwang The.  My conclusion was the same as your suggestions:  stay away.  

As for the Pai Lum qigong part of my question, I have actually talked face to face with 2 of the Pai Lum teachers in northern CO and one very highly ranked former Pai Lum teacher, none of which knew about the qigong form I mentioned.  I actually got to sit and watch one Pai Lum group practice for a few hours and from what I observed, their style seems more kenpo than kung fu so to speak.  The names of a few forms they went over sounded familiar, so I went home and looked them, and they are listed in the kenpo curriculum of Glenn Wilson's branch of Pai Lum.  My former Pai Lum teacher first learned under Weninger back in the 80's or so before he shut down his school.  He then reconnected with Wilson's organization in the early 2000's since, as far as he knew, Weninger didn't have one.  That's how I know the form is at least part of both Wilson's and Weninger's sets.  I'm guessing Galliano was more a kenpo guy under Grandmaster Pai back in the day, or at least that's what he's chosen to teach out here in CO.

The alternate spellings idea actually hadn't really occurred to me yet.  Thanks for the suggestion.  

There is a baguachuan.com site that says he teaches in Loveland, but there's no info on it about class times and the site's facebook page hasn't had a new post since 2013.  I did try messaging him on facebook, just in case, but so far no response.


----------



## clfsean (May 8, 2015)

MyrddinEmrys said:


> I have seen the Fort Collins Shaolin-Do site before, and, yeah, the vast number of styles supposedly taught there made me suspicious, so I researched Sin Kwang The.  My conclusion was the same as your suggestions:  stay away.
> 
> As for the Pai Lum qigong part of my question, I have actually talked face to face with 2 of the Pai Lum teachers in northern CO and one very highly ranked former Pai Lum teacher, none of which knew about the qigong form I mentioned.  I actually got to sit and watch one Pai Lum group practice for a few hours and from what I observed, their style seems more kenpo than kung fu so to speak.  The names of a few forms they went over sounded familiar, so I went home and looked them, and they are listed in the kenpo curriculum of Glenn Wilson's branch of Pai Lum.  My former Pai Lum teacher first learned under Weninger back in the 80's or so before he shut down his school.  He then reconnected with Wilson's organization in the early 2000's since, as far as he knew, Weninger didn't have one.  That's how I know the form is at least part of both Wilson's and Weninger's sets.  I'm guessing Galliano was more a kenpo guy under Grandmaster Pai back in the day, or at least that's what he's chosen to teach out here in CO.
> 
> ...



Shaolin-do ... Pai Lum ... all the same really. Something that's put off as one thing when it's not that.

The baguachuan.com guy ... it's more Kuntao that bagua. Bagua Quan is rare in China so the guy using that name for his domain is off setting for me personally. A little digging on his site will give you his background. 

If you're going to get into that stuff because it's all that's in your area, which a lot of times it's all we have, I'd go into the Denver area to see Uncle Bill himself or look up Daniel Prasetya.


----------



## MyrddinEmrys (May 8, 2015)

I guess I hadn't really looked through the baguachuan.com site thoroughly enough.  Oh well.  He did reply though and said he isn't currently teaching.


----------



## Blaze Dragon (May 8, 2015)

I would recommend at least talking to and checking out the Shaolin-Do school. I don't see why they have such a bad wrap, I've never had any issue with them and see nothing wrong with seeing what each school has to offer.


----------



## clfsean (May 9, 2015)

BlazeLeeDragon said:


> I don't see why they have such a bad wrap, I've never had any issue with them and see nothing wrong with seeing what each school has to offer.



....

You've seen the lawsuit The lost to Jake Mace, correct? You've seen the charges filed against David Soard & the disposition, correct?


----------



## elder999 (May 9, 2015)

BlazeLeeDragon said:


> I would recommend at least talking to and checking out the Shaolin-Do school. I don't see why they have such a bad wrap, I've never had any issue with them and see nothing wrong with seeing what each school has to offer.



Beyond the fact that they really, *really* suck.....(like, "_delusions of adequacy"_ suck 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) there's this:



clfsean said:


> ....
> 
> You've seen the lawsuit The lost to Jake Mace, correct? You've seen the charges filed against David Soard & the disposition, correct?


*QFT*


----------



## Blaze Dragon (May 9, 2015)

Yes I have seen the lawsuit and I've seen the charges against David Soard, who last I heard is no longer associated with SD. I've been to various schools in my youth and I have seen horrific teaching methods, and black belts who cannot stand proper or throw a correct punch or kick. Schools come in all sizes these days.

I've also studied under SD for 4 years it was one the best experiences I had at a school aside from my 5 years in TKD and 2 years in Tien Shan Pai/Kuntao*. *I can't and will not speak for all of SD, but I think with any system your gonna have good teachers and your gonna have bad teachers. To say SD as a whole sucks I feel is completely unfair.

I'm not saying they are the best, I'm not even going to argue the origin or history of their system. What I do know is that when I get with other internalist in my area to practice some push hands and drills I might not be the best or worst and hold my own. I can comfortably say I am one of the better ones. (this of course does not mean much if the ones in my area are not that skilled). 

There where some other students who had come from other backgrounds with taijiquan or pakuaquan and where very impressed with my sifu's understanding and aptitude.

Which is why I stand by my comment that he should at least check the school out. Even if a school had a cheese name like "Chinese Ninja Warrior" I think it's better to judge off of taking one class then to assume due to some bad press. This of course is just my opinion, but it's an opinion based upon first hand experience with Shaolin-Do. Not to say it's more valid or should hold more salt then the opinions of others, but still an opinion worth consideration.


----------



## elder999 (May 9, 2015)

BlazeLeeDragon said:


> To say SD as a whole sucks I feel is completely unfair.



It's *not*.




BlazeLeeDragon said:


> I've also studied under SD for 4 years it was one the best experiences I had at a school* aside from *my 5 years in TKD and 2 years in Tien Shan Pai/Kuntao.



So, to be clear, it wasn't as good as 2 years with Willy Lin, or 5 years of TKD?




BlazeLeeDragon said:


> This of course is just my opinion, but it's an opinion based upon first hand experience with Shaolin-Do. Not to say it's more valid or should hold more salt then the opinions of others, but still an opinion worth consideration.



Okay, we get it-you liked it.

A bunch of people liked disco. Didn't make it suck any less.


----------



## Blaze Dragon (May 9, 2015)

elder999 said:


> So, to be clear, it wasn't as good as 2 years with Willy Lin, or 5 years of TKD?



Not what I meant, I mean those three schools where the most memorable and the ones I stuck with the longest. I liked them all for different reasons.


----------



## elder999 (May 9, 2015)

The tai chi they teach is wrong....there's no other word for it. They also misidentify their tai chi forms,,,(if you could call them that: they look similar to the Cheng 37 posture form and Yang 24 posture short form, but they're *wrong* ) calling them something else,either deliberately lying or through sheer incompetence.

Here's the "Grandmaster." He's all over youtube. He sucks.


----------



## Xue Sheng (May 11, 2015)

elder999 said:


> The tai chi they teach is wrong....there's no other word for it. They also misidentify their tai chi forms,,,(if you could call them that: they look similar to the Cheng 37 posture form and Yang 24 posture short form, but they're *wrong* ) calling them something else,either deliberately lying or through sheer incompetence.
> 
> Here's the "Grandmaster." He's all over youtube. He sucks.



I have to admit, speaking as a Taijiquan guy.... that was horrible and show he knows absolutely nothing about taijiquan


----------

