# Jon jones fails drug test yet again



## Headhunter

So once again good old jon jones fails a drugs test for his fight for taking an oral steroid and again is denying it. I'm genuinely hoping they ban him for life. The mans a disgrace. He's always been bragging about his drug taking while fighting bragging about how he beat dc the first time while high. Plus all his problems, drink driving, drag racing, hitting a pregnant women and running away. The mans a joke and I have no idea why anyone supports the guy. If the ufc is anything near a fair organisation (questionable) then he'll lose the title and never be allowed to fight again.

People can say what they want about DC not being the true champion but to me he's 10 times the champion jones is. His statement he gave over this was wishing jones the best. He should be angry about what jones has done. I do hope dc gets given the title back and we never have to see that idiot jones again.


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## JowGaWolf

Not sure why the fighters depend on the steroids like that.  It seems counter productive if they are going to lose a win because they were juicing.  I didn't know Jon Jones had all of those issues.  Doesn't surprise me since historically some of the best martial artist from the past weren't exactly the best role models.  I'm more disappointed in the drug use than anything else. That sends the wrong signal about taking shortcuts and the US already has a problem as a society with wanting everything now.


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## jobo

Headhunter said:


> So once again good old jon jones fails a drugs test for his fight for taking an oral steroid and again is denying it. I'm genuinely hoping they ban him for life. The mans a disgrace. He's always been bragging about his drug taking while fighting bragging about how he beat dc the first time while high. Plus all his problems, drink driving, drag racing, hitting a pregnant women and running away. The mans a joke and I have no idea why anyone supports the guy. If the ufc is anything near a fair organisation (questionable) then he'll lose the title and never be allowed to fight again.
> 
> People can say what they want about DC not being the true champion but to me he's 10 times the champion jones is. His statement he gave over this was wishing jones the best. He should be angry about what jones has done. I do hope dc gets given the title back and we never have to see that idiot jones again.



i thought every one in mma took PEDS,


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## drop bear

jobo said:


> i thought every one in mma took PEDS,



Not everyone.


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## Brian R. VanCise

I think Jon Jones needs help.  He seems to have major drug issues.


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## Danny T




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## Dinkydoo

According to this article he was caught between the weigh-in and the fight for a steroid that promotes lean muscle growth. As a team mate points out, the timing of that makes no sense since it wouldn't have an impact on the fight - especially after testing clean throughout camp. 

It'd be interesting to find out what the hell he was actually up to. Had he been using PEDs in a way which beat the system during fight camp and he's only been caught at the final hurdle, for example. 

I don't buy into the "he's been setup" line, yet, unless anyone can provide a motive for USADA wanting to suspend Jon Jones for no good reason. 

Jon Jones' teammate claims failed drug test for steroids set up: 'They are trying to ruin this kid's life'

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## Headhunter

Dinkydoo said:


> According to this article he was caught between the weigh-in and the fight for a steroid that promotes lean muscle growth. As a team mate points out, the timing of that makes no sense since it wouldn't have an impact on the fight - especially after testing clean throughout camp.
> 
> It'd be interesting to find out what the hell he was actually up to. Had he been using PEDs in a way which beat the system during fight camp and he's only been caught at the final hurdle, for example.
> 
> I don't buy into the "he's been setup" line, yet, unless anyone can provide a motive for USADA wanting to suspend Jon Jones for no good reason.
> 
> Jon Jones' teammate claims failed drug test for steroids set up: 'They are trying to ruin this kid's life'
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


Firstly that's only his friend saying so. So of course he's going to lie for him. Also jones is simply an idiot he got into a drag race and called a policeman a lovely pig while he was on parole. So he's not exactly got many brains in his head it wouldn't surprise me at all. The mans a joke. To me anyone who touches steroids especially in fighting is a coward. They're not confident enough in their own abilities so they need to take steroids to help win


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## Dinkydoo

I'm not disagreeing that he seems to be a bit of a tit, but i'd rather examine the facts instead of letting a personal dislike of his character make up my mind for me. 

The article also confirms the timing of the test however I'm not sure if that's just regurgitating the quote from JJ's friend. 

It would be nice to get confirmation of what he tested positive for and when straight from the horse's mouth

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## punisher73

"promotes lean muscle growth" also means that it speeds up your recovery process so you can train longer and harder.  That is why many combat sport athletes use them.  

In this specific case, Turinabol helps you recover faster, but isn't as anabolic so isn't used by many bodybuilders.  It's biggest benefit along with the recovery factor is that it greatly increases muscular endurance.  So, yes it does make a lot of sense and would effect the outcome of the fight.

It is the "perfect" PED for combat sports athletes.


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## Dinkydoo

Thanks Punisher73, that's interesting. 

He's a repeat offender so in that case, I'd say ban him for life.


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## Headhunter

punisher73 said:


> "promotes lean muscle growth" also means that it speeds up your recovery process so you can train longer and harder.  That is why many combat sport athletes use them.
> 
> In this specific case, Turinabol helps you recover faster, but isn't as anabolic so isn't used by many bodybuilders.  It's biggest benefit along with the recovery factor is that it greatly increases muscular endurance.  So, yes it does make a lot of sense and would effect the outcome of the fight.
> 
> It is the "perfect" PED for combat sports athletes.


The guys a disgrace to mma and martial arts period. He walks around like he's some holy saint martial artist quoting bruce lee but he's nothing but a dirty cheat


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## MA_Student

Jon jones the mike tyson of mma


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## Skullpunch

MA_Student said:


> Jon jones the mike tyson of mma



I dunno if I'd go THAT far.  Tyson was pretty out there in his younger years.

Love seeing the heel-face-turn that he made as he got older though....hopefully Bones can do the same, maybe he could use some life lessons from old Iron Mike.


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## MA_Student

Skullpunch said:


> I dunno if I'd go THAT far.  Tyson was pretty out there in his younger years.
> 
> Love seeing the heel-face-turn that he made as he got older though....hopefully Bones can do the same, maybe he could use some life lessons from old Iron Mike.


Honestly I'd say jones is worse than tyson. Tyson grew up in an abusive  home with adicts and criminal parents and friends lived in a rough neighbourhood, he was basically raised as a thug and a scum bag. It's not an excuse for the things he did but there's a reason he was what he was. Jones is just a rich boy who thinks he can get away with anything and doesn't learn from his mistakes.

Again Im not supporting tyson he was a horrible and vile person but he had a lot harder time of it growing up than jones did.


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## JR 137

MA_Student said:


> Honestly I'd say jones is worse than tyson. Tyson grew up in an abusive  home with adicts and criminal parents and friends lived in a rough neighbourhood, he was basically raised as a thug and a scum bag. It's not an excuse for the things he did but there's a reason he was what he was. Jones is just a rich boy who thinks he can get away with anything and doesn't learn from his mistakes.
> 
> Again Im not supporting tyson he was a horrible and vile person but he had a lot harder time of it growing up than jones did.


I don't think Tyson ever failed a drug test (for boxing anyway).  And I'm quite sure he never pretended to be someone he isn't.  He stayed pretty quiet very early on, but that's not exactly pretending.

I don't know much about Jon Jones to compare.


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## CB Jones

punisher73 said:


> "promotes lean muscle growth" also means that it speeds up your recovery process so you can train longer and harder.  That is why many combat sport athletes use them.
> 
> In this specific case, Turinabol helps you recover faster, but isn't as anabolic so isn't used by many bodybuilders.  It's biggest benefit along with the recovery factor is that it greatly increases muscular endurance.  So, yes it does make a lot of sense and would effect the outcome of the fight.
> 
> It is the "perfect" PED for combat sports athletes.



He was probably taking Mibolerone, but got a tainted mixture that had Turinabol mixed with it.

Mibolerone is a PED and very hard to test for.  Used alot by powerlifters during competition to give them a boost.  It has a short life in the system but gives a big boost in strength and stamina.....also causes alot of aggression.

Mibolerone is almost impossible to test for but since it is completely illegal sources for it are very shady and most times when people are caught it is because it is mixed with something else that is testable.

Brendan Schaub explained it in his podcast.


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## CB Jones

It is *rumored* that Tyson was on Mibolerone when he bit Holyfields ear off.


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## MA_Student

CB Jones said:


> He was probably taking Mibolerone, but got a tainted mixture that had Turinabol mixed with it.
> 
> Mibolerone is a PED and very hard to test for.  Used alot by powerlifters during competition to give them a boost.  It has a short life in the system but gives a big boost in strength and stamina.....also causes alot of aggression.
> 
> Mibolerone is almost impossible to test for but since it is completely illegal sources for it are very shady and most times when people are caught it is because it is mixed with something else that is testable.
> 
> Brendan Schaub explained it in his podcast.


So more than likely he's been on it his whole career


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## JR 137

CB Jones said:


> It is *rumored* that Tyson was on Mibolerone when he bit Holyfields ear off.


I don't doubt it at all.

I don't pass judgement on athletes who take banned substances.  Don't get me wrong, I'm DEFINITELY AGAINST IT.  That being said, I'm a school teacher.  If there was an illegal substance that I could easily obtain that would take me from being a $50k a year teacher to a $5 million a year teacher, it would be enticing.  If I knew most of my peers were taking it and very, very few were getting caught, it would be very hard to not do it.  And it would be even harder seeing it around me year after year.  Or if I was that $5 million a year guy who did it the right way and all the $50k guys were doing it and surpassing me, pushing me back down it would be pretty hard too.  

I'd love to say I wouldn't do it.  It's pretty easy to say that when it's not a realistic thing for me.  And even easier to say when it's not an every single day thing.  It's easy to be honest when you don't have the true need and/or opportunity to steal big.

Like pretty much everything else, I try not to be so judgmental of situations I've never been close to being in.

A good friend of mine "played" 2 seasons in the NFL.  He was an undrafted offensive lineman. He was a tremendous athlete, had the right size, had the right mental abilities, and was highly skilled.  He worked very hard and was a great "locker room guy." He just wasn't strong enough.  He was on the Cowboys' practice squad for a season, the Giants' practice squad for a season, then got cut and no one picked him up.

Being a 325 lbs lineman and only bench pressing 350 lbs isn't going to get you anywhere in the NFL.  When 200 lb guys in other positions are lifting a lot more than you can, you have no chance.  We all knew it, but we never discussed it with him - he never did PEDs.  Had he done PEDs, he would've been an active player with a contract.

I've got the utmost respect for that.  But I wouldn't have judged him if he did what he needed to do to play.


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## MA_Student

JR 137 said:


> I don't doubt it at all.
> 
> I don't pass judgement on athletes who take banned substances.  Don't get me wrong, I'm DEFINITELY AGAINST IT.  That being said, I'm a school teacher.  If there was an illegal substance that I could easily obtain that would take me from being a $50k a year teacher to a $5 million a year teacher, it would be enticing.  If I knew most of my peers were taking it and very, very few were getting caught, it would be very hard to not do it year after year.  Or if I was that $5 million a year guy who did it the right way and all the $50k guys were doing it and surpassing me, pushing me back down.
> 
> I'd love to say I wouldn't do it.  It's pretty easy to say that when it's not a realistic thing for me.  And even easier to say when it's not an every single day thing.  It's easy to be honest when you don't have the true need and/or opportunity to steal big.
> 
> Like pretty much everything else, I try not to be so judgmental of situations I've never been close to being in.
> 
> A good friend of mine "played" 2 seasons in the NFL.  He was an undrafted offensive lineman. He was a tremendous athlete, had the right size, had the right mental abilities, and was highly skilled.  He worked very hard and was a great "locker room guy." He just wasn't strong enough.  He was on the Cowboys' practice squad for a season, the Giants' practice squad for a season, then got cut and no one picked him up.
> 
> Being a 325 lbs lineman and only bench pressing 350 lbs isn't going to get you anywhere in the NFL.  When 200 lb guys in other positions are lifting a lot more than you can, you have no chance.  We all knew it, but we never discussed it with him - he never did PEDs.  Had he done PEDs, he would've been an active player with a contract.
> 
> I've got the utmost respect for that.  But I wouldn't have judged him if he did what he needed to do to play.


Teaching and fighting are completely different. If you took a teaching drug you wouldn't be at risk of hurting anyone. To me in something like golf or tennis or football then whatever but fighting is where even when not juicing there's risk of causing serious Injury to someone else so taking that junk puts people's health at even more risk. 

Also I couldn't do it because I'd consider myself a fraud. My attitude has always been you get what you work for. For example if I'd taken my black belt grading and taken a drug to help me pass it wouldn't mean anything because it wasn't me that did it it was the drug. That's just me I see why people would but to me I consider anyone who juices mentally weak. Like Jon jones goes around saying he's the greatest to ever live...does he actually believe that when he's been juicing for god knows how long. Can he truly think his skills are better than everyone else's when he has an unfair advantage. It's no different to if I win a race but have a minutes head start


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## JR 137

MA_Student said:


> Teaching and fighting are completely different. If you took a teaching drug you wouldn't be at risk of hurting anyone. To me in something like golf or tennis or football then whatever but fighting is where even when not juicing there's risk of causing serious Injury to someone else so taking that junk puts people's health at even more risk.
> 
> Also I couldn't do it because I'd consider myself a fraud. My attitude has always been you get what you work for. For example if I'd taken my black belt grading and taken a drug to help me pass it wouldn't mean anything because it wasn't me that did it it was the drug. That's just me I see why people would but to me I consider anyone who juices mentally weak. Like Jon jones goes around saying he's the greatest to ever live...does he actually believe that when he's been juicing for god knows how long. Can he truly think his skills are better than everyone else's when he has an unfair advantage. It's no different to if I win a race but have a minutes head start



I agree with what you're saying, but I'm going to play devil's advocate here...

Pride is one thing, money is another thing.  The black belt you reference is a pride thing.  I wouldn't want it that way either.  But if there was a $5 million prize for getting it, pride alone wouldn't keep me from putting a needle in my a$$ to get it.  Especially when a lot of other people around me are doing the same thing.  When I feel all guilty and start crying about it, I'll reach for a wad of $100 bills to blow my nose and wipe my tears while I'm relaxing in my hot tub and watching a movie on my 100" tv.  Paid for by guilt money of course.  

As far as the potential for hurting people... sure.  But on the flip side, what if my opponent is doing them and I'm not?  I'm theoretically at a greater risk.  If we're both doing it, the playing field is even.  How do you know your opponent isn't?

I worked as an athletic trainer at a few Div I schools for about 15 years.  I've seen the temptation many times.  I've never once agreed with it, but I get it.  I've seen people work their butts off and hit that glass ceiling.  If they were just a step faster, or could jump a few inches higher, or were just a little stronger, they'd be at the next level.  If money wasn't involved, it wouldn't be a big issue.  But if you've got a 20 year old kid who's seen his entire family struggle his whole life, "cheating" in a way that a lot of others do eases that guilt quite a bit.

If I grew up with my parents regularly not knowing where our next meal was coming from, and me doing PEDs had a realistic chance of breaking that cycle (nothing is ever guaranteed), it would be quite hard to say no.

Again, I'm playing devil's advocate.  I'm empathetic to people doing PEDs, not sympathetic.  I guess it's the difference between "I get it" and not "I agree with it."


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## MA_Student

So apparently jones passed a blood test the day of the fight but the drug he was busted for can't be traced in blood only urine and it only stays in your system for 4 hours. I believe he's been taking it his whole career and slipped up this time or took more or whatever because its convinient he's busted the first time he finishes a guy in years


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## MA_Student

So his B sample tested positive for steroids as well and his win has been overturned. Bye bye jon jones happy early retirement


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## CB Jones

MA_Student said:


> So his B sample tested positive for steroids as well and his win has been overturned. Bye bye jon jones happy early retirement



Probably just a bad batch of Flintstones vitamins


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## MA_Student

CB Jones said:


> Probably just a bad batch of Flintstones vitamins


Or he was having trouble downstairs again


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## CB Jones

MA_Student said:


> Or he was having trouble downstairs again



Well.....cocaine can do that to you.


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## drop bear

CB Jones said:


> Probably just a bad batch of Flintstones vitamins



Tainted meat.


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## MA_Student

Daniel Cormier is again the champ. Good on him he's a fantastic fighter and a good guy


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## Brian R. VanCise

MA_Student said:


> Daniel Cormier is again the champ. Good on him he's a fantastic fighter and a good guy



Absolutely!  Good that they got this right!


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## MA_Student

Brian R. VanCise said:


> Absolutely!  Good that they got this right!


Problem is DC is probably going to get even more crap off idiots saying he's not the true champion etc


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## Steve

JR 137 said:


> I agree with what you're saying, but I'm going to play devil's advocate here...
> 
> Pride is one thing, money is another thing.  The black belt you reference is a pride thing.  I wouldn't want it that way either.  But if there was a $5 million prize for getting it, pride alone wouldn't keep me from putting a needle in my a$$ to get it.  Especially when a lot of other people around me are doing the same thing.  When I feel all guilty and start crying about it, I'll reach for a wad of $100 bills to blow my nose and wipe my tears while I'm relaxing in my hot tub and watching a movie on my 100" tv.  Paid for by guilt money of course.
> 
> As far as the potential for hurting people... sure.  But on the flip side, what if my opponent is doing them and I'm not?  I'm theoretically at a greater risk.  If we're both doing it, the playing field is even.  How do you know your opponent isn't?
> 
> I worked as an athletic trainer at a few Div I schools for about 15 years.  I've seen the temptation many times.  I've never once agreed with it, but I get it.  I've seen people work their butts off and hit that glass ceiling.  If they were just a step faster, or could jump a few inches higher, or were just a little stronger, they'd be at the next level.  If money wasn't involved, it wouldn't be a big issue.  But if you've got a 20 year old kid who's seen his entire family struggle his whole life, "cheating" in a way that a lot of others do eases that guilt quite a bit.
> 
> If I grew up with my parents regularly not knowing where our next meal was coming from, and me doing PEDs had a realistic chance of breaking that cycle (nothing is ever guaranteed), it would be quite hard to say no.
> 
> Again, I'm playing devil's advocate.  I'm empathetic to people doing PEDs, not sympathetic.  I guess it's the difference between "I get it" and not "I agree with it."


I completely agree.  Your post is very similar to what I wrote years ago with regards to Brett Boone, a former mariners 2nd baseman, who was so obviously juicing at the time.


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## JR 137

Steve said:


> I completely agree.  Your post is very similar to what I wrote years ago with regards to Brett Boone, a former mariners 2nd baseman, who was so obviously juicing at the time.


I remember that post.  Very true IMO.


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## MA_Student

JR 137 said:


> I don't think Tyson ever failed a drug test (for boxing anyway).  And I'm quite sure he never pretended to be someone he isn't.  He stayed pretty quiet very early on, but that's not exactly pretending.
> 
> I don't know much about Jon Jones to compare.


Old thread I know but I was rereading and saw this. He failed a drugs test after a fight for cocaine and he'd been using for a number of fights but he managed to fake the drugs tests by using another guys urine each time but he didnt get the chance for when he got busted


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## Headhunter

Didn't even need to post a new thread"....Ffs this guys such a screw up he should be banned for life he's an obvious cheat and now he's screwed both fighters and fans by having to move the card to get him a lisemde because he can't stay off the roids Nevada commission won’t license Jon Jones after abnormal drug-test finding, UFC 232 moves to California


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## Tez3

JR 137 said:


> But if there was a $5 million prize for getting it, pride alone wouldn't keep me from putting a needle in my a$$ to get it. Especially when a lot of other people around me are doing the same thing. When I feel all guilty and start crying about it, I'll reach for a wad of $100 bills to blow my nose and wipe my tears while I'm relaxing in my hot tub and watching a movie on my 100" tv. Paid for by guilt money of course.




and if it meant you had a very short life is it still worth it? If it made you sterile with heart disease and you were so aggressive none of your family wanted to know you?


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## Hanzou

This guy has a load of problems, and he's a pretty vile individual. I doubt he makes it past 40 at this rate.


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## ballen0351

Hmmm the USADA lab claims the results could be residual from when he was positive last time and this isnt from using again recently. 
That's why California gave him a license but Nevada is still refusing based on residuals from the 2017 test....interesting


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## CB Jones

ballen0351 said:


> Hmmm the USADA lab claims the results could be residual from when he was positive last time and this isnt from using again recently.
> That's why California gave him a license but Nevada is still refusing based on residuals from the 2017 test....interesting


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## Headhunter

ballen0351 said:


> Hmmm the USADA lab claims the results could be residual from when he was positive last time and this isnt from using again recently.
> That's why California gave him a license but Nevada is still refusing based on residuals from the 2017 test....interesting


Yeah no that's total crap


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## ballen0351

Headhunter said:


> Yeah no that's total crap


It's a good excuse.  Cant blame a guy for trying lol


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## Headhunter

ballen0351 said:


> It's a good excuse.  Cant blame a guy for trying lol


It's a terrible excuse that I can't believe some mugs are believing. No drug is going to stay in someone's system for 18 months....as someone on Twitter said a child only stays in its mother for 9 months so how can a tiny bit of drug stay in someone for 18....frankly either way he juiced then or he juiced now....there's literally 0 way to claim he's a clean athlete. Guys a scumbag plain and simple and to think he used to pretend he was this humble choir boy martial artist who was quoting Bruce Lee in post fight interviews....he literally said in one "I should've been more like water" like wtf....guys such a fake


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## MetalBoar

I know nothing about Mr. Jones, but I assume he was using banned PED's. But then I assume that pretty much everyone getting a paycheck for athletics, and I include scholarships in the paycheck category, is using banned PED's.


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## ballen0351

Headhunter said:


> It's a terrible excuse that I can't believe some mugs are believing. No drug is going to stay in someone's system for 18 months....as someone on Twitter said a child only stays in its mother for 9 months so how can a tiny bit of drug stay in someone for 18....frankly either way he juiced then or he juiced now....there's literally 0 way to claim he's a clean athlete. Guys a scumbag plain and simple and to think he used to pretend he was this humble choir boy martial artist who was quoting Bruce Lee in post fight interviews....he literally said in one "I should've been more like water" like wtf....guys such a fake


Ummmm even the Anti-doping Agency says its possible and the state of California believes it since they licensed him.  I'm not a doc so I have no idea if its possible or not.  I give him an A for effort.  I dont really care of hes "fake"  as long as he puts on a good show.   Most entertainers and athletes are "fake"......whatever that even means.


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## Headhunter

ballen0351 said:


> Ummmm even the Anti-doping Agency says its possible and the state of California believes it since they licensed him.  I'm not a doc so I have no idea if its possible or not.  I give him an A for effort.  I dont really care of hes "fake"  as long as he puts on a good show.   Most entertainers and athletes are "fake"......whatever that even means.


yep and they got a nice big pay check off the UFC because of it. California also let an old man with brain damage get knocked out a couple weeks back to. Combat sports is full of corruption whether it's bribes, fixed matches or whatever and if you don't think the UFC is part of that to you need to wake up


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## ballen0351

Headhunter said:


> UFC is part of that to you need to wake up


I'm not sure where I said anything of the sort.  it's all entertainment I dont care if it's fixed, doped up, rigged, clean, not fixed  all I care about is that it entertains me.  I dont know any of the fighters so I assume they are all fake and phoney and I dont care as long as they do thier jobs.  It bothers you so dont watch it's fine that's your choice


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## JR 137

ballen0351 said:


> Ummmm even the Anti-doping Agency says its possible and the state of California believes it since they licensed him.  I'm not a doc so I have no idea if its possible or not.  I give him an A for effort.  I dont really care of hes "fake"  as long as he puts on a good show.   Most entertainers and athletes are "fake"......whatever that even means.


Id really have to see the science behind that one. I’m not saying they’re lying, but it’s EXTREMELY hard to believe. I’ve worked in sports medicine and have quite a bit of experience with the whole testing process.

Either what he tested positive for back then has an absurdly long half-life like nothing else does, he’s got some freak genetic metabolic issue where he can’t break stuff down like everyone else, or someone has something to gain.

I’ve seen the athletes try to con their way out of it many times, and the media and fans fall for it for a little bit until a true expert came out and called bull$hit. I saw through that stuff before the experts set the media straight. I don’t think it’ll be long at all before this gets laughed at by an independent expert. There’s always the chance that the drug in question truly is the exception rather than the norm.  Ever so slightly better than a snowball’s chance in hell, but I guess there’s a chance.


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## JR 137

Tez3 said:


> and if it meant you had a very short life is it still worth it? If it made you sterile with heart disease and you were so aggressive none of your family wanted to know you?


21 year old JR would probably think “it won’t happen to me” or “that stuff is overblown.” I know many people who thought that, not just about this stuff.

I’ve seen quite a bit of steroid use, recreationally and performance enhancement use. I’ve seen some really bad stuff happen. I’d love to say I’d never use them, but being that age and having a realistic shot at serious money, don’t think for a second I wouldn’t be tempted and try to justify it. Id like to think I’d say no, but I’ve never been put in that situation before.

Being 42 with a wife and kids to live for, it’s an easy no at this point in my life.

I don’t judge. Until I’ve been in their situation, I don’t know what it’s like. I’ve seen it, but seeing it and being in it myself aren’t one in the same.


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## Headhunter

ballen0351 said:


> I'm not sure where I said anything of the sort.  it's all entertainment I dont care if it's fixed, doped up, rigged, clean, not fixed  all I care about is that it entertains me.  I dont know any of the fighters so I assume they are all fake and phoney and I dont care as long as they do thier jobs.  It bothers you so dont watch it's fine that's your choice


So you don't care if they're on steroids and end up hurting or killing someone because they're juiced up and fighting someone who's not taken that crap. But as long as you're entertained who cares if these guys are killed or given brain damage and they're families lose their fathers, their mothers, their sons, their brothers or sisters who cares if these guys can't work again because they've been put in a wheel chair because of a juicer or if a guys in hospital in a coma because they've taken a beating because they've been told to lose for an extra pay off. Who cares about all that as long as you're entertained right?

And yes that stuff happens exactly like that because I've seen it multiple times. I've seen fighters die in the ring because of cowards on steroids. I've seen families torn apart because the main earner in the house has been unable to work because of fights. I've ever been offered money to throw one of my own fights and been told to just stand there take a bit of a beating then go down which I refused. 

Personally I think fighters lives are far more important than your entertainment


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## CB Jones

JR 137 said:


> Id really have to see the science behind that one. I’m not saying they’re lying, but it’s EXTREMELY hard to believe. I’ve worked in sports medicine and have quite a bit of experience with the whole testing process.
> 
> Either what he tested positive for back then has an absurdly long half-life like nothing else does, he’s got some freak genetic metabolic issue where he can’t break stuff down like everyone else, or someone has something to gain.
> 
> I’ve seen the athletes try to con their way out of it many times, and the media and fans fall for it for a little bit until a true expert came out and called bull$hit. I saw through that stuff before the experts set the media straight. I don’t think it’ll be long at all before this gets laughed at by an independent expert. There’s always the chance that the drug in question truly is the exception rather than the norm.  Ever so slightly better than a snowball’s chance in hell, but I guess there’s a chance.



16 hour half life for Turinabol

So in 18 months it would have halved over 750 times.


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## JR 137

CB Jones said:


> 16 hour half life for Turinabol
> 
> So in 18 months it would have halved over 750 times.


So still enough to show up 18 months later. 

Yeah, if he took 100 gallons of it. 

Edit: Ok, I didn’t do the math, but I think you guys know where I’m going with that one.


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## ballen0351

Headhunter said:


> So you don't care if they're on steroids and end up hurting or killing someone because they're juiced up and fighting someone who's not taken that crap. But as long as you're entertained who cares if these guys are killed or given brain damage and they're families lose their fathers, their mothers, their sons, their brothers or sisters who cares if these guys can't work again because they've been put in a wheel chair because of a juicer or if a guys in hospital in a coma because they've taken a beating because they've been told to lose for an extra pay off. Who cares about all that as long as you're entertained right?


Yes that's what I'm saying.  although alot less dramatically than you.  Everyone knows the risks in any sports.  You accept the risks when you agree to the contract.  So make it entertaining.


> And yes that stuff happens exactly like that because I've seen it multiple times. I've seen fighters die in the ring because of cowards on steroids. I've seen families torn apart because the main earner in the house has been unable to work because of fights. I've ever been offered money to throw one of my own fights and been told to just stand there take a bit of a beating then go down which I refused.
> 
> Personally I think fighters lives are far more important than your entertainment


Good for you.


----------



## Gerry Seymour

JR 137 said:


> Id really have to see the science behind that one. I’m not saying they’re lying, but it’s EXTREMELY hard to believe. I’ve worked in sports medicine and have quite a bit of experience with the whole testing process.
> 
> Either what he tested positive for back then has an absurdly long half-life like nothing else does, he’s got some freak genetic metabolic issue where he can’t break stuff down like everyone else, or someone has something to gain.
> 
> I’ve seen the athletes try to con their way out of it many times, and the media and fans fall for it for a little bit until a true expert came out and called bull$hit. I saw through that stuff before the experts set the media straight. I don’t think it’ll be long at all before this gets laughed at by an independent expert. There’s always the chance that the drug in question truly is the exception rather than the norm.  Ever so slightly better than a snowball’s chance in hell, but I guess there’s a chance.


The only thing I could think of is if the chemical binds to fat, which could cause it to be released later during cut.


----------



## Gerry Seymour

JR 137 said:


> 21 year old JR would probably think “it won’t happen to me” or “that stuff is overblown.” I know many people who thought that, not just about this stuff.


Yeah, until the executive center finishes forming (late 20's for most folks), those kinds of risks are really hard to take into account.


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## ballen0351

gpseymour said:


> The only thing I could think of is if the chemical binds to fat, which could cause it to be released later during cut.


I find it interesting that the USADA would back Jones in this.  They were the one that originally asked for him to be suspended 18 months on his last positive test back in 2017 so its not like they are Jones or UFC fan boys...


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## Headhunter

ballen0351 said:


> I find it interesting that the USADA would back Jones in this.  They were the one that originally asked for him to be suspended 18 months on his last positive test back in 2017 so its not like they are Jones or UFC fan boys...


Yeah just as "interesting" as how they very conveniently lost one of Brock lesnars samples as well


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## ballen0351

Headhunter said:


> Yeah just as "interesting" as how they very conveniently lost one of Brock lesnars samples as well


Yep that's interesting also.  But they didn't lose anything this time.


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## punisher73

I read one article that talked about the latest incident.  In one of the more recent scientific studies done on this steroid and how long it lasts, found that the longest Turinabol metabolite only lasts 40-50 days.  Dr. Bowers, from the USADA, thought that the longest was 6-9 months.  The science just isn't adding up for 18 months drug free.  Here is a quote from that study, which was actually using the best technology to determine it

*"Our study has shown that the metabolite M3 and, to a lesser extent, its epimer and M4 are the most long-term metabolites of DHCMT. Taking into account that I and II are reportedly detectable up to 22 days post administration [3], [9] and that the relative concentration of M3in DHCMT post administration urines is normally higher compared to I and II, the detection window of M3 could be estimated as 40–50 days,"*

In fact, one of the other doctors involved stated that he could only say that Jones hadn't used from August 2018 through December 2018.  Which coincidentally is just when his testing started back up.  Looking at the available science, Jones was using during his suspension and stopped prior to when his testing would start back up to be clean.  He underestimated how long it could last and it showed up.  The UFC also failed to mention that he had tested positive prior 2 times before they announced it because the other two tests did not have to be announced.  In fact, the reason that athletes use this particular steroid is BECAUSE it doesn't stay in your system long at all to pass drug tests.

I have a VERY hard time believing that someone who used cocaine, tested positive for anti-estrogen substances and tested positive for steriods and then shows markers AGAIN for the same steroid just had them randomly floating in his system for 18 months.  Then his own statement of "never knowingly took them", is code for "I didn't ask questions on what my trainers told me to take" to have deniability.  If you were truly innocent, you would just say you never took any banned substances.  He used and the UFC is throwing up smoke to get him to fight.


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## Buka

I have many thoughts on this. I think when Jones is an old man he will look back and wonder, "What the hell did I do, how could I have been so stupid?"

Also, I don't give a rat's behind if an opponent of mine is juiced, cranked up on amphetamines or whatever the hell the latest wonder drugs are. Good luck to him, it's going to end up the same way anyway.

And I DO NOT trust drug testing at all, not one little bit. I once failed a drug test, testing positive for Heroin, Morphine and all opiates. Morphine? Who the hell does Morphine?

You know what it was from? I ate three lemon, poppy seed muffins earlier that day. Poppy seeds test positive for those three. It was the longest, ugliest week of my professional career. And since then...I don't trust no stinking drug tests anywhere from anybody.


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## TMA17

Yeah i'm not buying it but this was Rogan's opinion on it.


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## Hanzou

Eh, if you actually watch the fight, Jones completely demolished Gustaffan, and it had little to do with physical power. He completely shut down his opponent's game on a meta level. He really is on an entirely different level than his competition.


----------



## Steve

ballen0351 said:


> I'm not sure where I said anything of the sort.  it's all entertainment I dont care if it's fixed, doped up, rigged, clean, not fixed  all I care about is that it entertains me.  I dont know any of the fighters so I assume they are all fake and phoney and I dont care as long as they do thier jobs.  It bothers you so dont watch it's fine that's your choice


What the heck? You remember all the crazy town stuff you used to post about drugs?  But now you're fine if the pro athletes are doped up?  What a hypocrite.


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## ballen0351

Steve said:


> What the heck? You remember all the crazy town stuff you used to post about drugs?  But now you're fine if the pro athletes are doped up?  What a hypocrite.


There is a HUGE difference between the 2.  Nothing hypocritical about it.  Taking a substance that alot of the time is legal for a nonprofessional to take but it's on some banned list by the USADA that helps your own body reach its peak performance in sports is far different then smoking a dipper getting naked and humping a park bench in front of kindergartners walking to school.


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## pdg

ballen0351 said:


> There is a HUGE difference between the 2.  Nothing hypocritical about it.  Taking a substance that alot of the time is legal for a nonprofessional to take but it's on some banned list by the USADA that helps your own body reach its peak performance in sports is far different then smoking a dipper getting naked and humping a park bench in front of kindergartners walking to school.



Yes, there is a massive difference.

Using banned performance enhancing drugs is worse than using recreational drugs that are only illegal due to confusion over taxation and ongoing profiteering.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf

ATTENTION ALL USERS

Personal attacks and political discussion are both not allowed on MartialTalk. Please avoid personal attacks, and head to an outside forum such as usmessageboard.com if you wish to have a political discussion.

William H
@kempodisciple
MartialTalk Moderator


----------



## JR 137

Buka said:


> I have many thoughts on this. I think when Jones is an old man he will look back and wonder, "What the hell did I do, how could I have been so stupid?"
> 
> Also, I don't give a rat's behind if an opponent of mine is juiced, cranked up on amphetamines or whatever the hell the latest wonder drugs are. Good luck to him, it's going to end up the same way anyway.
> 
> And I DO NOT trust drug testing at all, not one little bit. I once failed a drug test, testing positive for Heroin, Morphine and all opiates. Morphine? Who the hell does Morphine?
> 
> You know what it was from? I ate three lemon, poppy seed muffins earlier that day. Poppy seeds test positive for those three. It was the longest, ugliest week of my professional career. And since then...I don't trust no stinking drug tests anywhere from anybody.


----------



## JR 137

Buka said:


> I have many thoughts on this. I think when Jones is an old man he will look back and wonder, "What the hell did I do, how could I have been so stupid?"
> 
> Also, I don't give a rat's behind if an opponent of mine is juiced, cranked up on amphetamines or whatever the hell the latest wonder drugs are. Good luck to him, it's going to end up the same way anyway.
> 
> And I DO NOT trust drug testing at all, not one little bit. I once failed a drug test, testing positive for Heroin, Morphine and all opiates. Morphine? Who the hell does Morphine?
> 
> You know what it was from? I ate three lemon, poppy seed muffins earlier that day. Poppy seeds test positive for those three. It was the longest, ugliest week of my professional career. And since then...I don't trust no stinking drug tests anywhere from anybody.


Did they give you 2 cups or one during the test?

When I tested people, we used The Center for Drug-Free Sport (I’m pretty sure that’s what we used; it was whoever the NCAA used).  We had to get 2 cups, for this purpose.

The first cup was an initial screening, of sorts. If a positive/red flag was raised, they’d do a more in-depth test of the second sample.

Here’s an example...

I had an athlete’s initial sample test positive for ephedrine, which is banned. The second sample was tested and it was made clear it was actually pseudoephedrine (aka Sudafed), which is not banned.

Had you given 2 samples, they’d have further tested the second and not had any confusion. I’m assuming your worst week ever was because you only needed one, which failed, then you gave another one, which was able to distinguish between poppy seeds and actual opiates, straightening it all out.

As far as I know, all sports drug testing uses two samples vs one; for this purpose specifically.


----------



## pdg

kempodisciple said:


> ATTENTION ALL USERS
> 
> Personal attacks and political discussion are both not allowed on MartialTalk. Please avoid personal attacks, and head to an outside forum such as usmessageboard.com if you wish to have a political discussion.
> 
> William H
> @kempodisciple
> MartialTalk Moderator



Was mine the personal attack or the political one?

Just for reference...


----------



## Buka

JR 137 said:


> Did they give you 2 cups or one during the test?
> 
> When I tested people, we used The Center for Drug-Free Sport (I’m pretty sure that’s what we used; it was whoever the NCAA used).  We had to get 2 cups, for this purpose.
> 
> The first cup was an initial screening, of sorts. If a positive/red flag was raised, they’d do a more in-depth test of the second sample.
> 
> Here’s an example...
> 
> I had an athlete’s initial sample test positive for ephedrine, which is banned. The second sample was tested and it was made clear it was actually pseudoephedrine (aka Sudafed), which is not banned.
> 
> Had you given 2 samples, they’d have further tested the second and not had any confusion. I’m assuming your worst week ever was because you only needed one, which failed, then you gave another one, which was able to distinguish between poppy seeds and actual opiates, straightening it all out.
> 
> As far as I know, all sports drug testing uses two samples vs one; for this purpose specifically.



Oh, no, no, no. Oh, how I wish it had been that easy. I have to get ready for work right now, I'll get back to this right soon. It's a rather interesting story. A lot of people got involved, everyone from the National Health Institute to Tripler Army Medical Center (headquarters of the Pacific Regional Medical Command of the armed forces administered by the United States Army in the state of Hawaii) They didn't get involved out of the goodness of their hearts. I went and got them involved. And they all helped me. They were as pissed as I was when I told them what was happening.

AND my photo went up at all entrances of my facility with a "DO NOT ALLOW ACCESS." When the guys questioned how are we supposed to stop the guy who trained us, they were told "By any and all means possible". A Federal Law Enforcement Officer one day, an out of work, suspected junkie trouble maker the next day.

Fortunately, it all worked out. And my department was embarrassed like you read about. But more on that later, I gotta' go to work.

All this over fricken' poppy seed muffins. Man, I do not trust drug testing to this day. Never will.


----------



## punisher73

Buka said:


> I have many thoughts on this. I think when Jones is an old man he will look back and wonder, "What the hell did I do, how could I have been so stupid?"
> 
> Also, I don't give a rat's behind if an opponent of mine is juiced, cranked up on amphetamines or whatever the hell the latest wonder drugs are. Good luck to him, it's going to end up the same way anyway.
> 
> And I DO NOT trust drug testing at all, not one little bit. I once failed a drug test, testing positive for Heroin, Morphine and all opiates. Morphine? Who the hell does Morphine?
> 
> You know what it was from? I ate three lemon, poppy seed muffins earlier that day. Poppy seeds test positive for those three. It was the longest, ugliest week of my professional career. And since then...I don't trust no stinking drug tests anywhere from anybody.



Yes, poppy seeds will show a positive for opiates.  BUT, they leave the system very shortly (usually within 24 hours).  Some places will ask a person if they have consumed anything with poppy seeds prior to a test and have them come back the next day.  While some people/places know this, others just jump to a conclusion and not retest.


----------



## Dirty Dog

There are tox screens, and there are tox screens. The sensitivity and selectivity varies widely.


----------



## kyoshima

He has a very serious problem with drugs. I hope he will fix them somehow. Wanna see him fighting again! Hope he has enough money to attend a rehab clinic. They all are quite expensive. Or maybe his sports insurance covers such things. Your insurance can cover rehab too, just check addictionresource.com/insurance-coverage/.Hope you won't need it, but still.


----------



## _Simon_

kyoshima said:


> He has a very serious problem with drugs. I hope he will fix them somehow. Wanna see him fighting again! Hope he has enough money to attend a rehab clinic. They all are quite expensive. Or maybe his sports insurance covers such things. Your insurance can cover rehab too, just check addictionresource.com/insurance-coverage/.Hope you won't need it, but still.


*applauds segway*


----------



## Headhunter

and again Jones proves he's the biggest p4p POS in Mma

UFC champion Jon Jones arrested for aggravated DWI, negligent use of firearm in Albuquerque


I have no respect for this man what so ever. He's so arrogant and full of himself he doesn't care who he hurts. 1 DWI is disgusting but I know this is at least his third, plus a drag racing arrest. The man should be doing jail time now no question about it. I lost my wife to a drink driver so I know how much pain idiots like him can cause.


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## Reedone816

and again only get slap on the wrist, 4 days home arrest with community service.
hope in the second court his driving license will be taken. 

Sent from my LYA-L29 using Tapatalk


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## Headhunter

Reedone816 said:


> and again only get slap on the wrist, 4 days home arrest with community service.
> hope in the second court his driving license will be taken.
> 
> Sent from my LYA-L29 using Tapatalk


It's absolutely pathetic....4 days stay at home when the world is in self isolation yeah great punishment....honestly it's disgusting and I'm never paying to watch any of his fights again. I have no respect for him whatsoever. Also the fact that UFC have said or done nothing.

A boxer got his liscense suspended recently for making a parody or joke video of hitting women. But this clown is allowed to drink drive a million times and fire off a gun while drunk and gets no punishment. I'm not condoning the boxer either it was obviously very stupid and inappropriate but what jones has done is way worse


----------



## CB Jones

Jones is a train wreck.


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## punisher73

Headhunter said:


> It's absolutely pathetic....4 days stay at home when the world is in self isolation yeah great punishment....honestly it's disgusting and I'm never paying to watch any of his fights again. I have no respect for him whatsoever. Also the fact that UFC have said or done nothing.
> 
> A boxer got his liscense suspended recently for making a parody or joke video of hitting women. But this clown is allowed to drink drive a million times and fire off a gun while drunk and gets no punishment. I'm not condoning the boxer either it was obviously very stupid and inappropriate but what jones has done is way worse



That's because the UFC cares more about PPV buys than what is right.


----------



## Reedone816

punisher73 said:


> That's because the UFC cares more about PPV buys than what is right.


true, they still tries to push ufc 249.
may be because in feb they just given their shareholders 300 mill, to calm the market down. 

Sent from my LYA-L29 using Tapatalk


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## Monkey Turned Wolf

Reedone816 said:


> and again only get slap on the wrist, 4 days home arrest with community service.
> hope in the second court his driving license will be taken.
> 
> Sent from my LYA-L29 using Tapatalk


The 4th DUI in New Mexico should be a felony. Not sure what number this is for him. Plus his BAL being above twice the legal limit, means that he should auto-lose his license for a year, or be forced to have an IID in his care. My bet will be that he'll find some way to change the charge, or take the IID (he probably has enough cars he can get around it if he wants).


----------



## Monkey Turned Wolf

kempodisciple said:


> The 4th DUI in New Mexico should be a felony. Not sure what number this is for him. Plus his BAL being above twice the legal limit, means that he should auto-lose his license for a year, or be forced to have an IID in his care. My bet will be that he'll find some way to change the charge, or take the IID (he probably has enough cars he can get around it if he wants).


Found an article. This is only his second DUI, not 3rd. And he pled guilty. I'm guessing the addition will be like my guess above-at some point during this he'll get an IID put in. And he'll probably have in his probation (and his outpatient), a condition stating he is not allowed to drink while on probation. Which most of the time when it's broken just results in more treatment and an extended probation (and sometimes an SCRAM bracelet (alcohol monitor). 

None of which I expect him to care all that much about. Or to change any of his behaviors.


----------



## Reedone816

actually the first dui is when he crashed his Bentley while had an underage girl as his passanger.
the second one was when he hit a car driven by a pregnan woman.
i forget in what state the first one was... 

Sent from my LYA-L29 using Tapatalk


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## Monkey Turned Wolf

Reedone816 said:


> actually the first dui is when he crashed his Bentley while had an underage girl as his passanger.
> the second one was when he hit a car driven by a pregnan woman.
> i forget in what state the first one was...
> 
> Sent from my LYA-L29 using Tapatalk


I checked a couple different articles, and they all concur this is his second DWI. This article mentions what you're likely referring to, where he left the scene of an accident and received a felony hit-and-run charge (the other incident mentioned, with the disorderly conduct, was really a battery charge but got brought down in the plea deal).

So based on it being his second official DWI (the courts can't assume he was drunk in the hit and run if that's not involved in the charge), his sentencing falls in line with the norm (especially since he stated he has an unhealthy relationship with alcohol, which is what many say when they want treatment rather than jailtime), although I feel it should be more harsh, particularly with the rest of his recent record, and the gun charge that got dropped in the plea deal.


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## Headhunter

Reedone816 said:


> actually the first dui is when he crashed his Bentley while had an underage girl as his passanger.
> the second one was when he hit a car driven by a pregnan woman.
> i forget in what state the first one was...
> 
> Sent from my LYA-L29 using Tapatalk


He also got arrested for drag racing and swearing at a police officer


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## Reedone816

@kempodisciple thaks for the correction.
@Headhunter  yes i remember that, wasn't the same officer also in this last case?
i respect his carefulness, when he let the other officer to do the test.

Sent from my LYA-L29 using Tapatalk


----------

