# How to open up your own Dojo.



## Dragon Fist

Hi Guys, 
I'm new here.
I was wondering if anyone can give me some sound advice or ideas on opening my own Dojo.

Thanks,
Dragon

 "You do not want to develop a prejudice to one martial art, they all have there strengths and weaknesses. One arts weakness can be another arts strength. Use what is useful to you and always look for the Similarities among the Arts".


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## lvwhitebir

Best resource I can recommend:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...f=sr_1_1/002-0702544-2528865?v=glance&s=books

WhiteBirch


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## Dragon Fist

Thank You WhiteBirch


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## The Kai

Mr Gradenook is a great palce to start but beware-NAPMA launched a thousand of McDojo's...

Todd


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## Dragon Fist

Thanks guys,  
Right now I have just been teaching privates.

I would really love to teach more students.

Does anyone know how much a successful Dojo can earn annually?

I would love to do it full time and not have to supplement it with a day job.

 

Dragon Fist


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## lvwhitebir

Dragon Fist said:
			
		

> Does anyone know how much a successful Dojo can earn annually?



Way too many variables here.  Some schools earn very little while others are nearly overnight success stories netting over $100K.  You need to think about monthly tuition, monthly overhead (rent, etc), insurance (business and health), etc.

What you need to do is determine how much you want to earn per year.  Then determine the monthly income by dividing by 12.  Add overhead costs to that ($5000 is a good rough estimate).  Divide that by the monthly student tuition and, voila, that's the number of students you'll need.

If you want to earn $50K per year at $70 a month tuition, you'll need 131 students.  At $100 a month tuition, you'll need 92 students.

If you want to earn $80K per year at $70 a month tuition, you'll need 166 students.  At $100 a month tuition, you'll need 117 students.

One of the problems is how slow it can take to build up the students.  A lot of times you have to pay a lot out on the overhead without having the student base to support it.  That means you need starting capital.  I always suggest about $30K if you're moving right into a commercial space.  If you're teaching out of a church or school, then you'll need far less.

How fast you can get the students is determined by your personality, your MA style, your teaching style, your target audience, what you do for advertising, etc.  Some people draw students to them by the droves, while others only get a few new students a month.

NAPMA and MAIA help with the business side of the operation, regardless of MA style.  Once you make the decision to really go for it, I'd look into getting at least a quarterly subscription in order to learn from them.  About 80% of starting businesses close within the first year.  Get a lot of information on how to run and structure your business so you don't fall into that trap.

WhiteBirch


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## lvwhitebir

The Kai said:
			
		

> Mr Gradenook is a great palce to start but beware-NAPMA launched a thousand of McDojo's...
> 
> Todd



I wholeheartedly disagree.  NAPMA provides martial arts business education.  How someone uses that education is responsible for creating a "McDojo" (whatever that means to you).  It's like saying Harvard Law launched a thousand abulance chasers.

I think NAPMA, MAIA, and MATA are admirably trying, and succeeding, to move the martial arts into a real profession rather than a hobby.  They have created a ton of new ventures and avenues for the martial arts school so that it becomes more professional, safe, and open to the public.  I highly recommend the information they convey.

WhiteBirch


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## Dragon Fist

lvwhitebir said:
			
		

> Way too many variables here. Some schools earn very little while others are nearly overnight success stories netting over $100K. You need to think about monthly tuition, monthly overhead (rent, etc), insurance (business and health), etc.
> 
> What you need to do is determine how much you want to earn per year. Then determine the monthly income by dividing by 12. Add overhead costs to that ($5000 is a good rough estimate). Divide that by the monthly student tuition and, voila, that's the number of students you'll need.
> 
> If you want to earn $50K per year at $70 a month tuition, you'll need 131 students. At $100 a month tuition, you'll need 92 students.
> 
> If you want to earn $80K per year at $70 a month tuition, you'll need 166 students. At $100 a month tuition, you'll need 117 students.
> 
> One of the problems is how slow it can take to build up the students. A lot of times you have to pay a lot out on the overhead without having the student base to support it. That means you need starting capital. I always suggest about $30K if you're moving right into a commercial space. If you're teaching out of a church or school, then you'll need far less.
> 
> How fast you can get the students is determined by your personality, your MA style, your teaching style, your target audience, what you do for advertising, etc. Some people draw students to them by the droves, while others only get a few new students a month.
> 
> NAPMA and MAIA help with the business side of the operation, regardless of MA style. Once you make the decision to really go for it, I'd look into getting at least a quarterly subscription in order to learn from them. About 80% of starting businesses close within the first year. Get a lot of information on how to run and structure your business so you don't fall into that trap.
> 
> WhiteBirch


 
Thank You for your sound advice, you have covered alot here.


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## The Kai

lvwhitebir said:
			
		

> I wholeheartedly disagree. NAPMA provides martial arts business education. How someone uses that education is responsible for creating a "McDojo" (whatever that means to you). It's like saying Harvard Law launched a thousand abulance chasers.
> 
> I think NAPMA, MAIA, and MATA are admirably trying, and succeeding, to move the martial arts into a real profession rather than a hobby. They have created a ton of new ventures and avenues for the martial arts school so that it becomes more professional, safe, and open to the public. I highly recommend the information they convey.
> 
> WhiteBirch


Insome regards they are trying to put something together which is great.  However the trend chasing, 45 minute class, little ninjas, karate aerobics, Rmcat marginializing of the martial arts is there.

I would'nt necassrily equate any of them with Harvard, the last time Harvard offered a free month (sure just put on a credit card, pay a month later it's just like a free month!!)
Quantity over quality = Dojo daycare
I am sorry if this offends you
Todd


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## lvwhitebir

The Kai said:
			
		

> I am sorry if this offends you



It does because I believe those programs are helping the martial arts by opening doors that were never there before, pulling in students that would have never thought about even trying it out before.  But you're entitled to your opinion... and this really is off topic so I'll shut up.

WhiteBirch


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## The Kai

Actually it is a maketing deal allowing daycare in the Dojo.  Could be why there are more schools then ever but less quality?

Allright off topic so i will Zip it
Todd


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## Dragon Fist

Wow guys, this is good stuff.

Dojo day care, which was one of my fears.

This is one of the reasons I currently only teach adults.

Parents dropping of there kids and not coming back for 2 to 3 hours.

Don't get me wrong I love kids, and love teaching them.

Being a parent myself, I could see why they do that. Sometimes it hard to find a baby sitter or it maybe cheaper for them.



Do you think it would offend the parents if you added on there agreement to charge extra for baby sitting their kids? Does anyone have a successful dojo daycare? I don't want it to take away from my time with the students.


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## lvwhitebir

Dragon Fist said:
			
		

> Dojo day care, which was one of my fears.
> 
> This is one of the reasons I currently only teach adults.
> 
> Parents dropping of there kids and not coming back for 2 to 3 hours.



Of all of the schools I've talked to, none have complained about parents leaving their kids like that.  I personally have a mostly adult school (about 80% adults) but have never had a problem like this.  I'll ask specifically to see what other schools have done to combat it or if they see it as a problem.

Unfortunately, most of the schools that teach adults-only are small schools (<100 members).  It can be done, but it's a difficult environment.  Most of the problems I've encountered are that adults don't see the need for martial arts (as far as self-defense is concerned) and don't think they can perform the flashier moves that attract the kids.



			
				Dragon Fist said:
			
		

> Do you think it would offend the parents if you added on there agreement to charge extra for baby sitting their kids? Does anyone have a successful dojo daycare? I don't want it to take away from my time with the students.



Definitely charge them extra.  They are actually disrespecting you if they do this.  Daycare centers charge for late-pickups, why shouldn't you?  If you wish to provide this as a service (and not something you're just pushed into) you can allocate space for a table and chairs for the students to do their homework or read quietly.  You shouldn't have to care for them.  If you do, have a student get paid to do it.

I actually had space in my school for parents to bring their kids to while they trained.  I had a babysitter that they paid for.  It had a table and chairs, toys, videos and a small TV/VCR.  Very few took advantage of it, but those that did found it helpful.

WhiteBirch


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## Dragon Fist

lvwhitebir said:
			
		

> Definitely charge them extra. They are actually disrespecting you if they do this. Daycare centers charge for late-pickups, why shouldn't you? If you wish to provide this as a service (and not something you're just pushed into) you can allocate space for a table and chairs for the students to do their homework or read quietly. You shouldn't have to care for them. If you do, have a student get paid to do it.
> 
> I actually had space in my school for parents to bring their kids to while they trained. I had a babysitter that they paid for. It had a table and chairs, toys, videos and a small TV/VCR. Very few took advantage of it, but those that did found it helpful.
> 
> WhiteBirch


Sounds like a great idea thanks again WhiteBirch


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## punisher73

Some other ideas are if your area has a school that does teach other arts or has an open night that you could rent at first until you have a large enough student base to open your own school.

Community Ed. programs are also an option. Teach one night a week there and then tell them where they can train more after the session ends and with community ed, it's free advertising when they send out their flyers.


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## Dragon Fist

punisher73 said:
			
		

> Some other ideas are if your area has a school that does teach other arts or has an open night that you could rent at first until you have a large enough student base to open your own school.
> 
> Community Ed. programs are also an option. Teach one night a week there and then tell them where they can train more after the session ends and with community ed, it's free advertising when they send out their flyers.


Thank You, I'll look into this


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## Jumper53

I would find a friend who has run/started a small business before to be a mentor. You could even give them a small peace of the business (10%) as an incentive so you do not have to pay them up front for any time they spend with you. This will help you way more than you could possably imagine. Then plan to buy them out once the school is off the ground.

If you are serious about becoming full time, and earning a living plus some then you will need money for startup. Unless you have your own that means you will need a business plan. This does not mean a McFranchise plan, just an idea of where you want to locate, how many square feet, what kind of flooring and equipment, when your classes will run, who are you marketing to, advertising strategy, and how long will it take you to get to the magic point where income>expense. If that seems like a lot then hold on, that is just a small part of what a business plan entails. Set an appointment with a bank now, tell them strait up what you plan to do, and ask them for help. If you do this you will be way more likely to get a loan when the time comes, and they have some great resources on how to write a business plan.

Set a time limit for writing your plan like 3 months, 10 hours per week. After your plan is written try to get money from private investors and friends, then try the banks, and then you can also look at some government small business startup programs.

Get enough to: renovate a location, pay 6 months rent, pay yourself for 6 months, buy an average size b/w yellow pages ad for a year, cover phone and utilities for 6 months, and deliver flyers to at least 10,000 houses three times.

As you can see I do not believe in doing things small, but very few schools that open without big signage and an advertising budget last past the first year. Once you have a student base (you will not get much word of mouth with only one mouth), then you can use some of the ad budget paying off your debt. 

If you are not ready for a step like this then I would suggest you get a few years of business practise buy running a small school in a club/church ext. Then you will have a student base so you will not need as much money when you move to a perminent location, and the banks will be friendlier since you have already shown some success in your field.

By the way, this is not just experience with MA. I helped dozens of small businesses start in my days as a consultant, until I retired to be a full time MA teacher.


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## Jumper53

Another note: do not pay for high priced retail space. The value of the visability will not justify the rent being 5x higher than industrial space. Look for a warehouse or older building that is close and easy to get to for a large number of houses in your city.


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## Mark Jorgensen

I currently run a club out of a YMCA that is very small overall (for a Y), and run my classes out of a small room there.  I currently have about 35 students and don't do any real advertising.  

The YMCA is moving into a brand new facility next year, and I may have the opportunity to move into the existing building, which already has locker rooms, office space, the small room I teach in, a main floor, and a weight room. 5,000 square feet in all.

It is in a relatively high traffic location, and would need almost no renovation.  I could get this space for 2900/month.  I would also be continuing the YMCA program at the new facility, which I anticipate bringing in around $1000/month, possibly more.

I have around $25K in capital available, and should have more by next year.

Is this a worthwhile endeavor in your opinion?  I'm leaning toward yes, but I may have to go into debt initially until the student numbers pick up. I also realize I'd need to put a marketing campaign together, as I rely solely on the YMCA and word of mouth at the moment.

Just curious how this situation sounds to people who have already done it.


Thanks.


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## Jumper53

Mark,

The space sounds good but you need put some thought into what you need to do to it to make it a nice looking school. Do you need to knock down or build some walls, do you need to paint, put guards on the lights so no errant targets break them etc etc. Keep the decor sparse, no one expects a school with all matching furniture and light fixtures. Your landlord may put up some money to make the changes for you but then they will add the price to your lease so you are essentially financing Reno costs through them.

Also mats or non slip flooring can be a huge cost for starting a new school.



The most important thing in any business is location. The worth of this building depends on how many students you can get from the surrounding community (within 15 minute drive). If the 35 students you have pretty much represent the interested public around you then you will not make it in this location. But if there are 50,000 or more middle income houses within 10 minutes of you, then I say you have a goldmine there. 



Your location also determines how you need to advertise. Other than word of mouth there are three main ways students come to a school, direct mail, signage, and yellow pages. A big sign is the cheapest, but it only works if the location is on busy roads that are traveled by families at night (A huge sign in the industrial park will only get you a good lunch hour class but not enough to sustain a school). When people look in the yellow pages most of them will look for the schools that are easiest to get to, (in the style they choose) so if the location is recognizable by everyone in your city then spend a little more money on yellow pages, it will pay off. (The advantage to yellow pages is that the people you reach are actively looking for MA, disadvantage is that they will probably talk to more than one school and price is there biggest determiner.) 



You should plan at least three direct mail flyers to each house in your community to announce an opening. Word of mouth only works if you have mouths to spread the word. The rush of new students the campaign brings in should way exceed the cost of the mailings. Then you can rely on word of mouth and more passive advertising. If the location is not very good you will have to rely on continual direct mail which is expensive compared to yellow pages and signs, this is where most MA schools, and other businesses usually fail.



You can go to a company that does direct mail and ask them about the numbers of houses near you, and the demographics. They should provide this info to you when you get a quote from them. You can then use the quote and demographic information on your business plan if you are in need of financing. You can also phone the main post office for your city and ask for a map that shows the zip codes and how many houses for each zip code.



Also look at the competition near the location. No schools near could mean it is a bad location (unless it is a good location but there is only high end retail buildings near by... meaning you have found yourself a cheap goldmine). Schools that come and go but no one stays very long means cheap rent but a bad location. A couple of good long term schools near means it is a good location but you had better be sure that you are providing good instruction (do not be afraid of competition, your differences will attract a body of students that match your personality best). But a school on every block could mean that the area is already saturated with instruction.



Lastly, you are taking a big step to being a full time instructor when you agree to take this space, make sure that fits your life right now. This may be the best location in history but if you are not ready that will not help you.



I hope you do well.


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## Mark Jorgensen

Thanks- that's a lot of good advice....


The location is about 5 minutes north of one of the most affluent and fastest growing communities in suburban Pittsburgh It's not unusual to see 500,000- million dollar homes and even higher in the area, and new middle-class level developments are constantly going up.


The location isn't what I'd call prime, but there is a ton of traffic by it every day that would see the sign. I think my current 35 students has more to do with lack of space and promotion right now than anything else.  In the small room I have now, I can't fit many more students than I have now. If I open up the main floor, I could easily reach 200 students or more, and I expect to reach 100 fairly quickly with the right promotion.  I also believe the YMCA program will escalate to at least 50-60 students in a short time.


Mats and furniture for office and viewing space would be my biggest initial cost, I already have most of the equipment I need. After that would be signage, paint, and advertising.


I'm also considering renting one of the adjunct rooms out to a yoga or tai chi instructor, something to appeal to a "lower impact" crowd...

As far as competition- There is an ATA studio and a Tae Kwon Do studio in the area doing most of the business, each charges over $100/month and is successful.  I have talked to students of both schools, and what I have to offer is more traditional and less sport oriented in both cases (not bashing TKD, just saying that those 2 schools are more competition oriented, and I'm not). 


The only potential obstacle is my wife...she doesn't liek doing anything she considers a risk...so she's my conscience, so to speak.  The fact that she hasn't outright said no is a good sign, though.


Looks like it's time to do a lot of research and number crunching.

Thanks again for the advice.


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## bcbernam777

Although I haven't opened my own Dojo, (though I am planning on doing so in the very near future) I have owned and operated 2 successful businesses in 2 seperate fields.

Some of the advice I am giving may have already been given so I apologise if I am repeating.

1.) Decide on your purpose. What is your mission for the school, why does it exsist, a clear understanding of why your school exists will be a strong foundation for success, eg my business currently is to provide supervised contact for government welfare agency. My mission is simple "connecting families" I want to provide a way for families to connect, and relate together so that the child/children can form proper attachements while they are out of the paternal home.

2) Create a branding. Create a look and a theme that will be instantly recongnizable. This provides consistency in your communications, not only to your current students but also new potential students.

3) Create a system. You school is a system, like anything else, a lot of MA schools seem to be held together with a wing and a prayer, by creating a system for everything you do, you are able to create a high quality, fairly predictable result for everyone concerned.

4) Create a business plan. If you haven't done so already. Some teachers in the MA field shy away from this because they see the cheap and outrages gimicks that other MA schools employ, and see that for some MA teachers it is all about the business and not about the students. Yet how I see it, If you create a business that lives to fulfill a mission that is about others and not simply about making money, then you can have a business that is harmonious. A Business plan will help you to plan for success so that you can have a larger bottom line that you can invest back into the school with the students gaining the benefit of this, e.g. bigger facilities, newer equipment etc.

As for your wife, when she sees that you have a solid plan in place and that you are detailed in your thinking, and that this is the real deal, it may be easier for her to come on board


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## Jumper53

When you do you initial Grand Opening Campain, I would suggest you get someone to help you answer the phones (which you hope are ringing off the hook). The phones should be manned from 8 in the morning till 10 at night seven days a week and that is a lot for one person to be responsible for. Also during class time the instructor should not be spending a lot of time answering calls. You can offer this person a wage for being on call, or give them something like $20 for every student you get from their work. 

Make sure you get callers names, phone numbers and some info about them like male/female/child. Then the person who is helping you can do follow up calls while you teach class. You will sign up twice as many people if you do follow up calls.


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