# Mc Dojo II



## ARNIS PRINCESS (Jun 21, 2004)

What do the members of the FMA forum consider a Mc Dojo is?


Note to mods: _*Please don't move this thread. I'm only interested in how the term relates to the FMA community!*_

 :soapbox:  :toilclaw:  :hammer:  :btg:


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## StraightRazor (Jun 21, 2004)

Forgive my newness...whats a McDojo?


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## Flatlander (Jun 21, 2004)

StraightRazor said:
			
		

> Forgive my newness...whats a McDojo?


Go here to learn about McDojoism
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15102&highlight=McDojo

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14670&highlight=McDojo

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5537&highlight=McDojo

That should give you a good idea.


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## tshadowchaser (Jun 21, 2004)

Lets start with someone who has attended a half dozen seminars and watched a viedo or two then claims he is able and qualified to teach "XYZ" or what  Filipino art it was he caught a glimmer of.


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## Guro Harold (Jun 22, 2004)

Are there that many FMA McDojo schools around?

I.  How many FMA programs are even self-sufficient?

II.  If a FMA group is making any kind of money, the instructors have been around for the most part for some time.

III.  FMA(s) are not prolific or over-exposed like other arts. There are some major cities it seems that don't have a FMA school that is easy to find or easily identifiable.


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## arnisandyz (Jun 22, 2004)

many people say its the school who does ______-(fill in the blank), when actually the mcDojo was created to cater to the American public.  Its fairly obvious McDojo is named after that famous fast-food chain with the golden arches.  Why do people go there instead of the Ma and Pop restaurant down the street? Convienience! We are so used to being on the go, we make sacrifices in quality for speed and convenience. We don't have time to sitdown and chitchat with the owners of the restaurant or employees, we want to pay our money, take what we paid for and go. 

I have seen several schools who started out for the "right reasons" who end up struggling to make the mortgage payment and either close down, or end up giving what the consumer wants. So what does the average consumer want from a martial Arts school? It would be ideal to say discipline, integrity, self control, etc...but really, they want that black belt.  So McDojos create package deals and programs, value meal specials that make it easier to buy your belt.  If the consumer wants weapons training, the mcdojoist will go to some seminars and the next week offer a little dragons weapons "program". Do consumers question it? Not very often, they get what they asked for.

All Im saying is that its a mutual thing.  The school is NOT trying to trick everbody, they're just offerng a service to people who want to pay for it. In a way they are just as much a victim of circumstance (sacrificing thier morals to make a sucessful school).


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## arnisandyz (Jun 22, 2004)

arnisandyz said:
			
		

> Do consumers question it? Not very often, they get what they asked for.



I was just thinking,  how many of you STILL bought the McRIB even though you knew it had fake "bones" molded into the patty?  or McNuggets which were shaped like little drumsticks knowing that it was processed in a mold?


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## mcjon77 (Jun 22, 2004)

Without being a mcdojo?  I think so.  For schools to survive today, it is becoming more and more necessary to offer a variety of programs.  This does not mean that the instructor simlply goes to a bunch of different seminars and proclaims himself an expert in BJJ, Modern Arnis, JKD, Krava Maga, Combat Hapkido,  etc.  The method I like best is one where a school teaches multiple arts by bringing in different intstructors who specialize in that particular art.  One interesting thing to note is that, in my experience, there is very little overlap between students of the different arts at the same school.

 I think the real issue is honesty with your students.  If you run a TKD school, and prospective students seem more interested in BJJ, I see no problem in bringing in a BJJ instructor to your school to offer BJJ classes.  I see a bigger problem with going to a 1 weekend "instructor training"  and then claiming to be a BJJ school as well.  Even the 1 weekend training seminar thing wouldn't be that bad as long as the instructor is honest with his students about his experience.  In some small towns, that may be the only option for BJJ or FMA training.  However, taking a few seminars in a system and then claiming to be on par with another local school whose instructor who has spent years (or in some cases decades) studying that same system is not being honest with your prospective students.

My best example of this is something that happened in Washington D.C. about 6 years ago.  I was considering studying modern arnis back then and found a school in a D.C. suburb that also taught MA.  I called the instructor up and asked about his program.  He was completely honest about his skill level and went so far as to recomend another FMA (non-Modern Arnis)  instructor that was much more experienced than him.  I was truely impressed by his honesty and openness.

Jon


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## AdrenalineJunky (Jun 22, 2004)

mcjon77 said:
			
		

> Without being a mcdojo? I think so. For schools to survive today, it is becoming more and more necessary to offer a variety of programs. This does not mean that the instructor simlply goes to a bunch of different seminars and proclaims himself an expert in BJJ, Modern Arnis, JKD, Krava Maga, Combat Hapkido, etc. The method I like best is one where a school teaches multiple arts by bringing in different intstructors who specialize in that particular art.


This is so true. I've seen this done in a couple of different ways, both of which have managed to keep the gyms in business. The gym I go to offers Muay Thai, JKD, BJJ, Kali, and Progressive Fighting System (whatever that is), which are taught by different instructors that share the cost of operating the gym. Another is the kenpo dojo my friend attends. They have a number of different classes at different times for convenience (all kenpo), and the owner also does a number of cardio-this-or-that classes, ranging from "working-up a sweat" to "kickin' your hiney."


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## kaliace (Jun 22, 2004)

mcjon77 said:
			
		

> My best example of this is something that happened in Washington D.C. about 6 years ago. I was considering studying modern arnis back then and found a school in a D.C. suburb that also taught MA. I called the instructor up and asked about his program. He was completely honest about his skill level and went so far as to recomend another FMA (non-Modern Arnis) instructor that was much more experienced than him. I was truely impressed by his honesty and openness.
> 
> Jon


Greetings, 

I am curious, witch instructor did you go to? 



Respectfully,

Michael G Olive

www.rattanclub.com


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## mcjon77 (Jun 22, 2004)

kaliace said:
			
		

> Greetings,
> 
> I am curious, witch instructor did you go to?
> 
> ...


Neither , I started dating this girl and picked a new major in college right about then, both of which consumed the majority of my free time and I pretty much fell out of martial arts.

Jon


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## Flatlander (Jun 22, 2004)

mcjon77 said:
			
		

> Neither , I started dating this girl right about then who consumed the majority of my free time and pretty much fell out of martial arts.
> 
> Jon


BOOOOOOOOOOO!  BOOOOOOOOOOO!

More martial arts Jon!  She'll love you more!  It will make you beautiful and successful!  Whatever you need to hear now!  More martial arts Jon!

Fell out?  Fall back in!  No time like the present!  We're all here for you!  Go get 'em!

Gooooooooooooo Jon!


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## mcjon77 (Jun 22, 2004)

flatlander said:
			
		

> BOOOOOOOOOOO! BOOOOOOOOOOO!
> 
> More martial arts Jon! She'll love you more! It will make you beautiful and successful! Whatever you need to hear now! More martial arts Jon!
> 
> ...


HEHEHEHEHE,

I've started back training in the martial arts recently and am having a blast.  As far as that girl went, lets just say that she gave me as much love as any 21 year old could handle, then added some extra for good measure :ladysman: .  The relationship only lasted a year, but I pray that those are the last memories to leave me if I ever become old and senile:boing2: .

Jon


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## dearnis.com (Jun 22, 2004)

Giving the public what they want is all well and good, but problems arise when the instructor starts overstepping his bounds.
I was teaching in a college club when I started FMA, specifically Modern Arnis.  Did I add a class?  No, I got a group of like-minded students/friends, and asked them to give me time before or after classes so that I could practice the new material I was learning.  I shared as much as I could, and we all benefited from it.  In retrospect the fact that I 1) admitted I was still learning 2) was humble enough to ask my students to step out of the student role and help me and 3) was freely sharing what I was learning all helped my credibility.  Even better, within a year the contacts I had made let us bring in a more experienced Arnis player as an additional instructor to the benefit of all.
I have seen people with equal or less experience (to what I had at the time) set up and start teaching.  While it can be justified in terms of giving the public what they want, in effect it is just bilking the public.  The art doesn't matter, an instructor who sets himself (or herself) up teaching something they have only studied briefly is running a scam.


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