# Can Drugs enhance your training?



## Triangle (Jun 8, 2012)

Anybody use drugs to enhance their training?     tea/coffee/relaxation drugs? legal/illegal


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## simplewc101 (Jun 8, 2012)

lol

:drinkbeer  		 			 				:cheers: 			
 		 			 				:s143:


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## wtxs (Jun 8, 2012)

Triangle said:


> Anybody use drugs to enhance their training?     tea/coffee/relaxation drugs? legal/illegal



Training while stoned is not an new concept, had came across an article somewhere years back about training to fight in the environment you shouldn't be there in the first place ... like a bar/pool hall.  They would get drunk or stone while working out ...

:hmm::hmm::hmm:


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## Ceicei (Jun 8, 2012)

I've heard some MAists often will train while on ibuprofen.  Apparently for them, ibuprofen reduces muscular/joint inflammation to allow for better training.  Others I know will take SAM-e to help with their training.

I usually do not take either while I train. I am currently rehabbing from a shoulder surgery, I'm beginning to see their point of view.

Ceicei


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## Triangle (Jun 8, 2012)

anti-inflammitries, ,   i guess these people are on them for injurys,  I was talking relaxation drugs,   Ones that give you heightened awareness,  
alcohol on the other hand , in small does it may be ok, but if your over the limit you wasting your time,


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## jks9199 (Jun 8, 2012)

Triangle said:


> anti-inflammitries, ,   i guess these people are on them for injurys,  I was talking relaxation drugs,   Ones that give you heightened awareness,
> alcohol on the other hand , in small does it may be ok, but if your over the limit you wasting your time,


Which drugs "enhance awareness?"  Some stimulants may keep you going longer, but they really don't do much to blunt the effects of exhaustion or tiredness.


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## Dirty Dog (Jun 8, 2012)

What you are suggesting is a really bad idea. You want to be more aware? Work on your focus. You want to be more alert? Sleep properly and work on your focus and awareness. 

You want to get coloring books for Christmas the rest of your life? Buy into the idea that drugs will do these things for you.


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## Triangle (Jun 8, 2012)

Dirty Dog said:


> What you are suggesting is a really bad idea. You want to be more aware? Work on your focus. You want to be more alert? Sleep properly and work on your focus and awareness.
> 
> You want to get coloring books for Christmas the rest of your life? Buy into the idea that drugs will do these things for you.




Not those kind of drug man, natrual ones like drinking green tea, smoking herbs etc, in correct does they can do wonders, 
A great great grand master owned his own herbal shop back in china 100 of years ago,

IP MAN died of a smoking related illness,


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## Dirty Dog (Jun 8, 2012)

Triangle said:


> Not those kind of drug man, natrual ones like drinking green tea, smoking herbs etc, in correct does they can do wonders,
> A great great grand master owned his own herbal shop back in china 100 of years ago,
> 
> IP MAN died of a smoking related illness,



I love the "it's natural, so it must be good" mindset. After all, tobacco, alcohol, cocaine and opium are all natural.

If you want to alter your mind, so it WITH your mind. 

In cases such as this, I always wonder (I can't help it, I just do...) if perhaps the posters command of English grammar and spelling is the result of the "wonders" of the herbs they have smoked.


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## jks9199 (Jun 8, 2012)

Dirty Dog said:


> I love the "it's natural, so it must be good" mindset. After all, tobacco, alcohol, cocaine and opium are all natural.
> 
> If you want to alter your mind, so it WITH your mind.
> 
> In cases such as this, I always wonder (I can't help it, I just do...) if perhaps the posters command of English grammar and spelling is the result of the "wonders" of the herbs they have smoked.


Arsenic and cyanide are also natural.  So is carbon monoxide.  Shoot, dihydrogen monoxide is extremely deadly, responsible for about 10 deaths per day, and 100% natural!


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## Triangle (Jun 8, 2012)

Grammer isnt going  to help me knock your lights out is it?    Im not one for Square mindsets,  black and white,  there is grey matter,   
I dont  reccomend any Drugs,   Green Tea is a Good  for relaxation,  And many ogf benifits to Herbal medicine, You should look into chinese medicine practices,


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## Carol (Jun 8, 2012)

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## shesulsa (Jun 8, 2012)

Whatever man.


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## Dirty Dog (Jun 8, 2012)

Triangle said:


> Grammer isnt going  to help me knock your lights out is it?    Im not one for Square mindsets,  black and white,  there is grey matter,
> I dont  reccomend any Drugs,   Green Tea is a Good  for relaxation,  And many ogf benifits to Herbal medicine, You should look into chinese medicine practices,



Threats? So much for the "relaxation" brought on by whatever it is you're smoking, eh?

There is, indeed, grey matter. I encourage people to use theirs, and not screw it up with mind altering substances. Especially when engaging in martial arts.

As far as "chinese medicine practices [sic]", I suggest you put down the pipe and find out how science works. Modern chinese medicine is remarkably similar to western medicine. Why? Because there is actual *science* behind it.
As far as ancient Chinese medical practices, please provide sources for actual *science* to support your claims. Anecdotal reports are not science.
And just as an FYI, [sic] is a convention used to indicate that the incorrect spelling and grammar are left in from, and the responsibility of, the original text being quoted. I'd hate for anybody to think that *I* don't know the difference between medicine and medical...


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## Triangle (Jun 8, 2012)

Yeah so what, I dropped out of School when i was 15,  Been to Jail 3 times, had 5 Drinking while driving convictions,  but that was 10+ years ago, people grow,


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## simplewc101 (Jun 8, 2012)

Dirty Dog said:


> I love the "it's natural, so it must be good" mindset. After all, tobacco, alcohol, cocaine and opium are all natural.



small correction- cocaine is not natural, but the active ingredient in cocoa leaves is. To make cocaine, you must first use gasoline... hmmmm
Alcohol isn't really natural either.. I mean it happens naturally through a chemical process, but it doesn't just grow like that, although if fruit just grew like that, it would be cool.

anyways, I digress. I dont see how using common drugs would enhance your training. I mean if you train hard, then you will be better when you are drunk or whatever.. but i don't see a correlation between drinking or whatever and better wing chun. however, drinking is fun, and wing chun is fun, so maybe I can see how they are related


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## mook jong man (Jun 8, 2012)

In my young and stupid days I once engaged in chi sau whilst drunk , my partner was also drunk.
It was only luck that stopped us from being injured that day , I don't recommend it all.

In the Siu Nim Tao form we are trying to develop force via the mind "Nim Lik" or "sense from the brain".
This requires all your powers of concentration , not only in correctly focusing your mental force but also the control of different muscle groups.

Now this is hard enough to accomplish when you are stone cold sober, so trying to do it with a mind dulled by drugs And muscles that have been artificially relaxed is going to be counter productive.

You have to be able to enter the "Siu Nim Tau state" instantly , using only your mind , this ability is honed by constant practice of the form.
Not by using various substances to help you get there.


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## Triangle (Jun 8, 2012)

Drunk or stoned i can still preform Wing chun, 

"Quote "  You have to be able to enter the "Siu Nim Tau state" instantly , using only your mind ,

Then its a good idea to be in Siu Nim Tau state all the time dont you think?


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## shesulsa (Jun 8, 2012)

I guess if you plan on being high or drunk a lot then you probably want to be prepared for what might happen to you while under the influence. I fail to see how this helps you grow as a martial artist, however.

Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk 2


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## The Last Legionary (Jun 8, 2012)

Triangle said:


> Grammer isnt going  to help me knock your lights out is it?    Im not one for Square mindsets,  black and white,  there is grey matter,
> I dont  reccomend any Drugs,   Green Tea is a Good  for relaxation,  And many ogf benifits to Herbal medicine, You should look into chinese medicine practices,



Is that a threat? Looks like one to me.
opcorn:


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## The Last Legionary (Jun 8, 2012)

shesulsa said:


> I guess if you plan on being high or drunk a lot then you probably want to be prepared for what might happen to you while under the influence. I fail to see how this helps you grow as a martial artist, however.
> 
> Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk 2



If you're drunk or stoned a lot you're probably an *** hole.

They get into a lot of fights.

Funny that.


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## Triangle (Jun 8, 2012)

Heightened awareness and relaxation go hand in hand in Wing Chun,
Drinking over the limit is no good for any one,  Threats?, i dont make threats, i make promises,


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## shesulsa (Jun 8, 2012)

Triangle said:


> Grammer isnt going  to help me knock your lights out is it?    Im not one for Square mindsets,  black and white,  there is grey matter,
> I dont  reccomend any Drugs,   Green Tea is a Good  for relaxation,  And many ogf benifits to Herbal medicine, You should look into chinese medicine practices,





Triangle said:


> Heightened awareness and relaxation go hand in hand in Wing Chun,
> Drinking over the limit is no good for any one,  Threats?, i dont make threats, i make promises,



So ... is the first quote from you a hypothetical statement or are you being an *** to the person you were replying to?


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## shesulsa (Jun 8, 2012)

Triangle said:


> Threats?, i dont make threats, i make promises,



My mother used to say this to add weight to her threat.


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## simplewc101 (Jun 9, 2012)

i just got a bag of popcorn, this is getting good 
 		 			 				:s446:


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## Triangle (Jun 9, 2012)

shesulsa said:


> My mother used to say this to add weight to her threat.




Threats are Usually full of Hot Air, Believe me i had my share, I was clearly stating that grammer isnt going to win fights, im sure Mike Tyson would agree,

Seems the worlds full of Nazis,


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## Cyriacus (Jun 9, 2012)

This Thread is a amazing. I mean, Uwe Boll style amazing, where You cant decide if You should giggle or rest Your face on Your hands.


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## Triangle (Jun 9, 2012)

Thank you, I try,    Its not main stream but neither is  using the back part of your mind,


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## mook jong man (Jun 9, 2012)

Triangle said:


> Drunk or stoned i can still preform Wing chun,



Having done both in my youth , I can tell you that you only think you can because of your altered perception.
But the reality is really quite different.




Triangle said:


> "Quote "  You have to be able to enter the "Siu Nim Tau state" instantly , using only your mind ,
> 
> Then its a good idea to be in Siu Nim Tau state all the time dont you think?



Having a fully concentrated mind is not the same as being drunk or stoned I'm afraid , otherwise we could all just give up training the Siu Nim Tau form and sit on the couch all day downing six packs and smoking bongs.


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## MacPedro (Jun 9, 2012)

Guys,
       Dirty Dog's comment "If you want to alter your mind, so it WITH your mind." reminds me of the concept of meta-programming (RA Wilson wrote about this a fair bit) I may be over simplifying but I think it's just self-hypnosis.
Every time you do your forms and training you are adding strength to the label you attach yourself. "I am a WC dude" " I am a Martial Artist". We can not help but become our labels. This is an explaination of where confidance is coming from.
Since I started SLT I'm noticably more robust of the upper body, some of this was thought. It is with our thoughts that we shape the world.
This was in the opening sequence of the TV show Monkey.

As far as threats are concerned the important word to be wary of throwing around is in italics
"Grammer isnt going to help me knock_ your _lights out is it?" This may have been unintentional but it's still a bit personal and can be interpreted as an infringement of forums rules. A better word if no assault was intended would have been "someone's".

Muddying the waters with psychobable,
                                                    Pedro


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## Dirty Dog (Jun 9, 2012)

Triangle said:


> Heightened awareness and relaxation go hand in hand in Wing Chun,
> Drinking over the limit is no good for any one,  Threats?, i dont make threats, i make promises,



Wow... I haven't heard that since, like, 3rd grade. I have seen studies that show a pretty clear connection between substance abuse and delayed development, however.



Triangle said:


> Threats are Usually full of Hot Air, Believe me i had my share, I was clearly stating that grammer isnt going to win fights, im sure Mike Tyson would agree,



Mr Tyson was an excellent boxer. I am not sure, however, that I'd consider him a positive role model. Unless you're trying to support your apparent convicion that there is a connection between brain damage and martial training?



Triangle said:


> Seems the worlds full of Nazis,



I invoke Godwins Law....
You do understand that being opposed to ignorance, and the public display thereof, is quite the antithesis of the position of the Nazi party, don't you? Perhaps not...



Triangle said:


> Thank you, I try,    Its not main stream but neither is  using the back part of your mind,



Sadly, severe cases of craniorectal impaction are becoming far too mainstream.


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## Bob Hubbard (Jun 9, 2012)

*Mod Note:*



> *1.8 Threats, Racism, Sexism, and Challenges:
> 
> *
> Messages that are openly hostile,  defamatory, sexual, vulgar, or harassing, will not be tolerated, and may  be in violation of the law.  Threads or replies promoting or expressing  intolerant views towards any group (race, religion, sexual preference,  interracial couples, etc.) will not be tolerated.
> ...


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## Jenna (Jun 9, 2012)

simplewc101 said:


> small correction- cocaine is not natural, but the active ingredient in cocoa leaves is.



..small correction to your small correction  Cocaine is not from cocoa.. cocoa / cacao beans gives us chocolate which I am sure you know.. it is maybe a typo that is ok.. it is coca leaves give us cocaine.. de-cocainised leaves make good tea it is good for relieving headache and tastes lovely also.. You know it was only like in 1908 or something like that that Coca Cola stopped putting cocaine in their Coke.. something tells me there is a reason their syrup recipe is still secret..


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## MSTCNC (Jun 12, 2012)

IMHO, using ANY type of narcotic, mind-altering substance, or stimulant (IE alcohol, coke, et all) while training simply leaves you open for, and encourages, over-extending yourself, and opens the door for injury. Possibly significant injuries. Having said that, as an older practitioner, I often depend on something like Vitamin A (Aleve) to lessen the effects of training on my aging body. Two-days of seminar classes this past weekend tore my butt up. Without some assistance, I'd be moving slower today than I already am.

Now onto the more sensitive subject... illegal substances. Again, IMHO, they have no place in actual training; HOWEVER, I do see a genuine use for something like Cannabis in meditative practices. However, the issue I see here most is that people use it in a completely wrong manner. Getting stoned out of your gourd on a regular basis, under the auspices of increasing your awareness, is simply a fallacy. And, probably one that was achieved while high in the first place.

The single best way to use Cannabis as a meditative aide (IMHO) is to do it rarely, to use it in large quantities when you do, to be completely alone, and in to be in total darkness. Do I know of what I speak? Yes. I do. And, I have absolutely no problem with putting that out there. My reasoning here is best left for another thread, as it gets pretty involved.

In this context, the word natural means it comes from the Earth, and isn't altered in any way. Unlike Cocaine, alcohol, and the like... things like Cannabis, Psilocybin, Peyote (etc) are used as-is... with no processing other than natural desiccation.



 Just my .02 US on the matter. Opinions may vary. No valid in Hawaii or Puerto Rico.



 {salute}


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## MacPedro (Jun 12, 2012)

Guys,
      not that I'm a lush or anything....maybe a little bit in my youth  I can no longer tolerate the booze hound bashing. It does occur naturally.




Enjoy,

        Pedro


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## wtxs (Jun 12, 2012)

MSTCNC said:


> The single best way to use Cannabis as a meditative aide (IMHO) is to do it rarely, to use it in large quantities when you do, to be completely alone, and in to be in total darkness. Do I know of what I speak? Yes. I do. And, I have absolutely no problem with putting that out there. My reasoning here is best left for another thread, as it gets pretty involved.
> 
> In this context, the word &#8220;natural&#8221; means it comes from the Earth, and isn't altered in any way. Unlike Cocaine, alcohol, and the like... things like Cannabis, Psilocybin, Peyote (etc) are used as-is... with no processing other than natural desiccation. {salute}



I like you ... think I'm going to look for my well used Ted Nuggent & The Amboy Dukes album and drop the needle on the "Journey To The Center of The Mind".  With a little help ... I'll be "in tuned".


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## shesulsa (Jun 12, 2012)

This is a thread for "horror stories." Or maybe there should be a new forum called, "what NOT to do while training" ...


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## celestial_dragon (Oct 16, 2012)

don't need drugs


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