# Interesting Article on a UFC fighters opinion on Sparring



## Drose427

Former UFC fighter Jamie Varner warns young fighters Too much sparring can lead to early retirement - Bloody Elbow

He says limit it to a time or two a week.

I know many of use spar more using hard contact and makes me curious how much damage is actually being done.

I also think he may have done more damage to himself than need be by regularly sparring with larger guys. It's something that should be done but the increase risk and injury, at least to me, means its not something to be doing 3 times a week...

His MMA record was something like 35-11,  and up until his last six fights he was doing very well. Something changed in him apparently, and this is what he thinks was his downfall....


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## marques

Brain damage in the long run. That's sure. Anyway, there are people able to support more or less strikes.
This is why I only spar within my rules (slow and "perfect technique", but also intention and potential power), or don't spar. Like that I can spar everyday (the best training part to me).
Hard sparring is for professionals or crazy people, IMHO.


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## Danny T

Sparring is an important aspect of the fight game however, it is not the most important. Should be done for as a part of the training but not the practice aspect. Hard sparring should be done only periodically and with a specific goal in mind. More time should be spent doing hard drilling, pad, and heavy bag work to develop technique applications and responses in my opinion.


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## Tez3

Spend the time on fitness and conditioning instead of sparring so much.


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## FriedRice

Danny T said:


> Sparring is an important aspect of the fight game however, it is not the most important. Should be done for as a part of the training but not the practice aspect. Hard sparring should be done only periodically and with a specific goal in mind. More time should be spent doing hard drilling, pad, and heavy bag work to develop technique applications and responses in my opinion.



This is how it is, already. Nobody spars more than they drill on pads, heavy bags, etc. 

The bigger problem is that there's not enough sparring. Even less so for hard sparring in trying to KO your partners.


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## Tez3

FriedRice said:


> This is how it is, already. Nobody spars more than they drill on pads, heavy bags, etc.
> 
> The bigger problem is that there's not enough sparring. Even less so for hard sparring in trying to KO your partners.




Are you a professional fighter or coach? MMA fighters do what is considered best for themselves, if they feel they need to do more they will but on the whole there is more than enough sparring done.


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## Danny T

FriedRice said:


> The bigger problem is that there's not enough sparring. Even less so for hard sparring in trying to KO your partners.


If you are sparring to KO your partners you are an egotistical fool. Sparring is about learning and keeping yourself or training partners sharp. It is not about knocking your partners out or seeing how much damage you can take. Those who do aren't in the fight game for long while spending the rest of their lives with neurological disorders.


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## FriedRice

Danny T said:


> If you are sparring to KO your partners you are an egotistical fool. Sparring is about learning and keeping yourself or training partners sharp. It is not about knocking your partners out or seeing how much damage you can take. Those who do aren't in the fight game for long while spending the rest of their lives with neurological disorders.



Sure it is. If you're scared of it, that's fine. Obviously, there are risks. Sounds like you've never been to a Boxing gym. The average Boxing gym spars hard way more than any MMA gym I've been to. But now at your age, you shouldn't be going hard anyway.


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## Drose427

FriedRice said:


> Sure it is. If you're scared of it, that's fine. Obviously, there are risks. Sounds like you've never been to a Boxing gym. The average Boxing gym spars hard way more than any MMA gym I've been to. But now at your age, you shouldn't be going hard anyway.




no, no they dont.

My coach (Mike Sheppard for anyone interested) has won a myriad of boxing and kickboxing titles.

He spars twice a week with hard contact, but nobodies getting KO'ed or out for blood. Nor does he let our pros or us ams spar like its a bout.

At our gym, going for Ko's all the time is how you get a coach to pair with up with someone hes already told to drop you.

No gym is just letting their guys treat sparring like a bout.


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## Danny T

FriedRice said:


> Sure it is. If you're scared of it, that's fine.


Yes, there are a few gyms with coaches that don't know better and there are practitioners like yourself who think going for a ko is good training. You are in the minority. 



FriedRice said:


> Sounds like you've never been to a Boxing gym.


Right.



FriedRice said:


> The average Boxing gym spars hard way more than any MMA gym I've been to. But now at your age, you shouldn't be going hard anyway.


You know not of what you speak.
At my age going hard is not a problem. However, going hard doesn't mean going for knock outs.
In the excellent high level training professional gyms sparring is hard, but going for knock outs only happen when idiots come in wanting to prove themselves and get put into their place.


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## RowdyAz

Unless you are sparring with contact it's useless. It allows for the I could have done this or the I could have done that or but if I done that. In the end it doesn't achieve a thing if you can't land you get a false sense of security. The students leave training thinking they are a world beater without being able to take a punch. Sparring has it's place for sure.It more or less becomes shadow boxing with a willing partner. Source 18 years freestyle karate, muay thai and go ju ryu.


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## Drose427

RowdyAz said:


> Unless you are sparring with contact it's useless. It allows for the I could have done this or the I could have done that or but if I done that. In the end it doesn't achieve a thing if you can't land you get a false sense of security. The students leave training thinking they are a world beater without being able to take a punch. Sparring has it's place for sure.It more or less becomes shadow boxing with a willing partner. Source 18 years freestyle karate, muay thai and go ju ryu.



Contact yes

Trying to Ko or annhilate? no

Heck, even with UFC fighters it really only happens the last few spars before a match and its still frowned upon I.e. Aldo injured a couple guys before his last title defense


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## RowdyAz

Drose427 said:


> Contact yes
> 
> Trying to Ko or annhilate? no
> 
> Heck, even with UFC fighters it really only happens the last few spars before a match and its still frowned upon I.e. Aldo injured a couple guys before his last title defense


Exactly, to beat someone senseless at training proves nothing. That's why in every good club it's called controlled sparring ( knowing when to back off) the main thing to take away from sparring is gauging distance.  With some students they will throw a technique from a foot or so away only to have there partner unleash with half a dozen techniques of their own and in essence they aren't learning from that type of exchange. I'm all for sparring providing its only used as a learning tool and is performed in a constructive way.


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## FriedRice

Danny T said:


> Yes, there are a few gyms with coaches that don't know better and there are practitioners like yourself who think going for a ko is good training. You are in the minority.
> 
> 
> Right.
> 
> 
> You know not of what you speak.
> At my age going hard is not a problem. However, going hard doesn't mean going for knock outs.
> In the excellent high level training professional gyms sparring is hard, but going for knock outs only happen when idiots come in wanting to prove themselves and get put into their place.



It's just hard sparring baby. But I can tell it's not for you and you've obviously never done it. 






You should spar with these ladies, no wait, they're going too hard:


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## FriedRice

Drose427 said:


> Contact yes
> 
> Trying to Ko or annhilate? no
> 
> Heck, even with UFC fighters it really only happens the last few spars before a match and its still frowned upon I.e. Aldo injured a couple guys before his last title defense



Wrong.


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## FriedRice

Drose427 said:


> no, no they dont.
> 
> My coach (Mike Sheppard for anyone interested) has won a myriad of boxing and kickboxing titles.
> 
> He spars twice a week with hard contact, but nobodies getting KO'ed or out for blood. Nor does he let our pros or us ams spar like its a bout.
> 
> Looks Mike Sheppard don't think that you're good enough or can take it, to allow you to spar hard. Otherwise you'd know that it's not easy to KO someone who's equally trained using 16oz Boxing gloves; and rarely does anyone gets KO'ed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No gym is just letting their guys treat sparring like a bout.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Been to a lot of gyms now have we? Or is this your first MMA gym?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At our gym, going for Ko's all the time is how you get a coach to pair with up with someone hes already told to drop you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah, this is what we tell the noobs also too so they don't go crazy.
Click to expand...


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## Tez3

How a very good coach trains fighters Interview John Kavanagh on coaching methods diet gurus fancy gym equipment more - Bloody Elbow and yes I do know John doesn't have them sparring hard all the time.

There is of course a lot of online machismo around, sitting typing at the keyboard wearing Tapout tshirts and fight shorts I imagine.


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## Tez3

Interesting that Friedrice finds John Kavanagh funny, a coach who has train several UFC fighters is amusing to him.
Sparring yes, hard sparring yes, aiming to KO no, why risk the payday, if a fighter is KO'd then they fail the medical so no fight.
What It Takes to Be a UFC Fighter


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## drop bear

I would say hard sparring is risking ko,s. But not necessarily setting out to cause the. 

But it is tough to find that acceptable line. Fighting is about being competitive. If they turn the heat up you turn the heat up.


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## Tez3

drop bear said:


> If they turn the heat up you turn the heat up.



Depends where you are though, if they are sparring partners for a pro fighter going into a fight then the coach's instructions will be carried out, if it's some kid in the gym/club looking to make a name for himself by sparring hard with a fighter then well it rarely ends well for the wannabe lol, though it gives the rest of us a laugh.


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## Danny T

Hard sparring? Yes
Sparring for KO? No
Can it happen, does it happen? Yes
As to the examples Friedrice showed first two are very low level participants and lack control. The Mayweather gym, Floyd brags about how to get in his gym you have to prove yourself. Very few of his guys become good fighters.
The Mike Tyson sparring session was a good session by seasoned well trained boxers who worked hard but with respect for each other.


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## Tez3

Danny T said:


> The Mayweather gym, Floyd brags about how to get in his gym you have to prove yourself. *Very few of his guys become good fighters*.



Exactly.


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## Drose427

FriedRice said:


> Wrong.



The majority of the punches thrown in both vids have good control. Proving again, that theres a line between hard sparring to sparring like its a bout


He has no issue with me sparring hard....that point went straight over your head


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## FriedRice

Drose427 said:


> The majority of the punches thrown in both vids have good control. Proving again, that theres a line between hard sparring to sparring like its a bout
> 
> 
> 
> He has no issue with me sparring hard....that point went straight over your head




You obviously never fought before. They are sparring to KO each other and throwing bombs. This "good control" that you're referring to is how trained and experienced fighters, fight AND spar. Since you've never fought and is a newbie, you think that fighting in the ring is going crazy like in a streetfight. It could be sometimes, but most of the time, it's being relaxed & controlled....conserving energy and not gassing out.


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## FriedRice

Danny T said:


> Hard sparring? Yes
> Sparring for KO? No
> Can it happen, does it happen? Yes
> As to the examples Friedrice showed first two are very low level participants and lack control.



Incorrect, the Black guy in the first video is a Pro Boxer. He was just playing with the other guy, who is low level. But they don't care in most Boxing gyms....like I told you. You don't spar hard that's why this is so foreign to you.



> The Mayweather gym, Floyd brags about how to get in his gym you have to prove yourself. Very few of his guys become good fighters.



Define these "good fighters" that you're talking about.



> The Mike Tyson sparring session was a good session by seasoned well trained boxers who worked hard but with respect for each other.



While trying to knock each other the hell out.


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## FriedRice

Tez3 said:


> Interesting that Friedrice finds John Kavanagh funny, a coach who has train several UFC fighters is amusing to him.
> Sparring yes, hard sparring yes, aiming to KO no, why risk the payday, if a fighter is KO'd then they fail the medical so no fight.
> What It Takes to Be a UFC Fighter



Incorrect, I found it funny how you like to drop names and casually slip in how you know him....kind of like "sitting typing at the keyboard wearing Tapout tshirts and fight shorts I imagine.".  But hey, those who don't fight nor coach, can always be a Helper Coach.


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## Tony Dismukes

The only MMA gym I'm aware of where it is/was standard practice to regularly go for the KO in sparring is Pat Miletich's gym. Apparently they got plenty of injuries and knockouts in their regular sparring. I'm sure there are probably other places that do the same, but that's the highest profile gym I know of which subscribes to that philosophy.

Most places have better sense than that. It's true that professional fighters generally go harder than amateurs and amateur fighters go harder than non-fighters. However most experienced fighters recognize that sparring is _preparation_ for a fight - not an actual fight.


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## Tez3

FriedRice said:


> Incorrect, I found it funny how you like to drop names and casually slip in how you know him....kind of like "sitting typing at the keyboard wearing Tapout tshirts and fight shorts I imagine.".  But hey, those who don't fight nor coach, can always be a Helper Coach.




Focus


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## Danny T

Interesting that someone disagrees with you on training/sparring so that means they are scared and have never sparred hard.


FriedRice said:


> Incorrect, the Black guy in the first video is a Pro Boxer. He was just playing with the other guy, who is low level. But they don't care in most Boxing gyms....like I told you. You don't spar hard that's why this is so foreign to you.


So he's a pro fighter... there are a lot of 'pro' fighters who aren't good. 
Hard sparring Foreign to me? Hard sparring isn't foreign nor is foolish training.
You want to spar to KO, do it.
The real professionals with long careers train, spar smart and are not punch drunk bums when their careers are over.


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## FriedRice

Tony Dismukes said:


> The only MMA gym I'm aware of where it is/was standard practice to regularly go for the KO in sparring is Pat Miletich's gym. Apparently they got plenty of injuries and knockouts in their regular sparring. I'm sure there are probably other places that do the same, but that's the highest profile gym I know of which subscribes to that philosophy.
> 
> Most places have better sense than that. It's true that professional fighters generally go harder than amateurs and amateur fighters go harder than non-fighters. However most experienced fighters recognize that sparring is _preparation_ for a fight - not an actual fight.



In general, any kind of hard sparring can KO you. It's just a good shot that landed well.  They don't even call it "sparring for KO" or even hard sparring, at a Boxing gym....it's just "sparring". 

MMA is different because even with the MMA 7oz sparring gloves, you can break noses and cause cuts much easier than 16oz Boxing gloves. And you can't ground & pound someone with full elbows or full knees, even with padding on. There's also more care to not rip someone's ACL off during grappling, but it still happens and that's what I fear more than getting KO'ed.  But with the 16oz, there's also the same hard sparring. Just that Boxing gyms goes hard, way more regularly. Not all the time, but it certainly seems that way when I visit the sparring class at Boxing gyms.


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## FriedRice

Danny T said:


> Interesting that someone disagrees with you on training/sparring so that means they are scared and have never sparred hard.



I'm just going by how hysterical you got when I merely said that most Boxing gyms spars hard for the KO, often. I didn't even say, all the time neither.  Not only did you not believe that this happens often, but ever at all.



> So he's a pro fighter... there are a lot of 'pro' fighters who aren't good.



Yeah no kidding, but he's a lot better than you or what you're used to.  But since you're not well trained, at least in Boxing, you can't tell that this guy that you called "very low level participants and lack control" in the first video...was actually very controlled and deliberate with his punches.  

Can you tell me what kind of fighter the Black guy is, based on that video?



> Hard sparring Foreign to me? Hard sparring isn't foreign nor is foolish training.
> You want to spar to KO, do it.



Hard sparring is sparring up to full, 100% power. 70% power can KO, and it's not even hard sparring yet. 70% power sparring also hurts, a lot.  This must mean that you haven't sparred at 70% neither. 



> The real professionals with long careers train, spar smart and are not punch drunk bums when their careers are over.



Have you heard of Muhammad Ali.


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## jks9199

ATTENTION ALL USERS:

Please keep the conversation polite, and respectful.  Debate the post, not the poster.

jks9199
Administrator


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## Danny T

FriedRice said:


> I'm just going by how hysterical you got when I merely said that most Boxing gyms spars hard for the KO, often. I didn't even say, all the time neither.  Not only did you not believe that this happens often, but ever at all.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah no kidding, but he's a lot better than you or what you're used to.  But since you're not well trained, at least in Boxing, you can't tell that this guy that you called "very low level participants and lack control" in the first video...was actually very controlled and deliberate with his punches.
> 
> Can you tell me what kind of fighter the Black guy is, based on that video?
> 
> 
> 
> Hard sparring is sparring up to full, 100% power. 70% power can KO, and it's not even hard sparring yet. 70% power sparring also hurts, a lot.  This must mean that you haven't sparred at 70% neither.
> 
> 
> 
> Have you heard of Muhammad Ali.


Hysterical? That's a bit of a stretch don't you think? Uncontrolled extreme emotion or excitement??
What you wrote was; "The bigger problem is that there's not enough sparring.* Even less so for hard sparring in trying to KO your partners*."
I wrote; "If you are sparring to KO your partners you are an egotistical fool. Sparring is about learning and keeping yourself or training partners sharp. It is not about knocking your partners out or seeing how much damage you can take. Those who do aren't in the fight game for long while spending the rest of their lives with neurological disorders." That isn't being hysterical and I stand behind what I wrote. It is foolish to and poor training to work to KO in training.
I've also agreed with you in that sparring hard in training is important. However, Hard Sparring does not need to be to a KO. This is where we seem to disagree.
Do KOs happen? Yes. I even wrote in post #21; "can it happen, does it happen? Yes."  (you may have missed that)
So we disagree and that means I've never trained hard, sparred hard, nor am I well trained. Ok.
Sorry about this hysterical rant.

Oh and yes, I believe I have heard of Muhammad Ali a time or two.


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## FriedRice

Danny T said:


> Hysterical? That's a bit of a stretch don't you think? Uncontrolled extreme emotion or excitement??
> I wrote; "If you are sparring to KO your partners you are an egotistical fool.



IMO, this is being hysterical. And notice, I not petty to report people when they hurl insults. Not saying that it's you, since I don't really know who these petty people are.



> Sparring is about learning and keeping yourself or training partners sharp. It is not about knocking your partners out or seeing how much damage you can take.



It can be all of the above. I just showed you videos of people getting KO'ed and going for the KO with full power shots. Boxing is not your TMA tap sparring.



> Those who do aren't in the fight game for long while spending the rest of their lives with neurological disorders." That isn't being hysterical and I stand behind what I wrote. It is foolish to and poor training to work to KO in training.



That's the choice that people make. It's their choice. You're not the final authority on what constitutes correct training. If you're scared of neurological disorders or getting hit hard to spar full power for KO's, that's fine by me. I'm not forcing you. Just don't tell me that only your way is the correct one. I'm scared of heights, that's why I don't skydive as a sport. Plenty of people are scared of getting punched repeatedly in the face as a sport, that's why not everyone's a fighter in an MMA or even Boxing gym.



> I've also agreed with you in that sparring hard in training is important. However, Hard Sparring does not need to be to a KO. This is where we seem to disagree.
> 
> "Hard Sparring", varies from gym to gym. Hard sparring to you, probably only means medium sparring to me and most Boxing gyms....where hard sparring means throwing punches up to 100% power. Regular sparring to us, usually means up to 70% power, but it often spikes to 100% power when someone gets mad. But at 70% power, it still hurts and you still can get KO'ed if you get caught. That's why I like to say, sparring for KO,  in order to not be ambiguous as lots of gyms have various definitions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do KOs happen? Yes. I even wrote in post #21; "can it happen, does it happen? Yes."  (you may have missed that)
> So we disagree and that means I've never trained hard, sparred hard, nor am I well trained. Ok.
> Sorry about this hysterical rant.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We disagree on what "hard sparring" means. That's why I like to say, "sparring for KO", which makes it crystal clear. The first time I went to that gym in my first video up top for sparring class, I asked the Coach "how hard are we going?"....He said, just "pace yourself, this kid is a fighter, he can take it"......I was like WTF does that mean (inside my head)? Bell rings, and this kid, a fighter....whacks me with a full overhand right so hard that I start seeing stars. So I put him down. No problem w/the Coach at all...but see how ambiguous this is if I were to come to your gym and you said "hard sparring"? To me, that would mean your guy(s) will be trying to KO me so I better get them first.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh and yes, I believe I have heard of Muhammad Ali a time or two.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well then, by your arguments, he shouldn't be having all of his "neurological disorders", yes?
Click to expand...


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## Drose427

FriedRice said:


> IMO, this is being hysterical. And notice, I not petty to report people when they hurl insults. Not saying that it's you, since I don't really know who these petty people are.
> 
> 
> 
> It can be all of the above. I just showed you videos of people getting KO'ed and going for the KO with full power shots. Boxing is not your TMA tap sparring.
> 
> 
> 
> That's the choice that people make. It's their choice. You're not the final authority on what constitutes correct training. If you're scared of neurological disorders or getting hit hard to spar full power for KO's, that's fine by me. I'm not forcing you. Just don't tell me that only your way is the correct one. I'm scared of heights, that's why I don't skydive as a sport. Plenty of people are scared of getting punched repeatedly in the face as a sport, that's why not everyone's a fighter in an MMA or even Boxing gym.



Rice, all 3 of us TRAIN in MMA/boxing gyms, with MMA fighters and Boxers.

Again, the pro videos you posted were far from full power,

Full power in 16 oz gloves still cuts and breaks noses and orbitals.

Nobody is scared to, its a matter of irresponsibility.

Which is why most gyms and pros dont regularly spar with 100% power.


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## Tony Dismukes

Drose427 said:


> Rice, all 3 of us TRAIN in MMA/boxing gyms, with MMA fighters and Boxers.
> 
> Again, the pro videos you posted were far from full power,
> 
> Full power in 16 oz gloves still cuts and breaks noses and orbitals.
> 
> Nobody is scared to, its a matter of irresponsibility.
> 
> Which is why most gyms and pros dont regularly spar with 100% power.


Add me as another who trains in a MMA gym with MMA fighters (and who occasionally coaches some of those fighters) and who agrees with all of this.


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## Buka

And me, who cut his teeth in a boxing gym and has trained with world boxing champions and several more MA world champions. When you spar, especially if you are serious about the fight game, or serious about the arts, OR is sparring as a professional -  anyone who tries to knock out their sparring partners gets fed to the dogs. And the dogs are always hungry. Always.

Sparring is important. It should be conducted properly.


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## Buka

Sorry for the double post. 

If you spar more than once in a great while, whatever manner of sparring, rolling, knifing, wrestling, whatever - in the world of contact training and/or competition, and/or self defense, the importance of your sparring program should be paramount. It should be conducted in a professional, hence, safe manner. I don't care if it's a boxing gym, a dojo, a club or a garage, if you don't know how to do it safely and the person in charge doesn't know the difference between all manners of sparring, you have a problem on your hands. A big problem.

Look to those who do it best, anywhere in the world. Listen to them. 
Intenionally trying to KO a sparring partner won't be found in their world.


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## FriedRice

Drose427 said:


> Rice, all 3 of us TRAIN in MMA/boxing gyms, with MMA fighters and Boxers.
> 
> Again, the pro videos you posted were far from full power,
> 
> Full power in 16 oz gloves still cuts and breaks noses and orbitals.
> 
> Nobody is scared to, its a matter of irresponsibility.
> 
> Which is why most gyms and pros dont regularly spar with 100% power.



You  just don't have enough experience that's why you couldn't tel that there weren't any full power punches in those videos. How many months have you been training in this 1st ever, MMA gym that you signed up with?  About 3-6 months, tops?

And you still seem to think that full power means to throw every single strike at full power. I already told you that nobody does this, not even in fights in the ring,  unless it's a quick knockout or fights that doesn't go over 1 round.

The first video with the KO, certainly had full power punches as he was clearly loading up his body. I sparred with both of them and know what their full power is.


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## FriedRice

Buka said:


> And me, who cut his teeth in a boxing gym and has trained with world boxing champions and several more MA world champions. When you spar, especially if you are serious about the fight game, or serious about the arts, OR is sparring as a professional -  anyone who tries to knock out their sparring partners gets fed to the dogs. And the dogs are always hungry. Always.
> 
> Sparring is important. It should be conducted properly.



Ooh, add me too. I've trained and sparred with World Champion and Legend, Ernesto Hoost   




But what does this mean really? Absolutely nothing, other than dropping names. He went light and I didn't dare go hard. While if I spar against someone my equal skill level and it's agreed upon  that it's "HARD SPARRING", then I'm going to try to knock him out. Do I spar hard and try to KO Noobs and Women? No.  I usually tell them that they can go full power but I won't, just so I can get a good work out in. 

Go to a Boxing gym in the 'hood. It's common for coaches to feed Noobs to experienced fighters, who are training for an upcoming fight, to get their confidence up by knocking them the "freak" out. Win-Win situation.....the fighters gets a moving punching bag to work on while the Coach finds out which noob serious and/or has heart. Weeds out the noobs real fast. You guys never been to a gym in the 'hood before, have you....and I'm not talking about the Cardio Boxing class, but for the sparring. They don't play around.


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## Drose427

FriedRice said:


> You're just don't have enough experience that's why you couldn't tell think that there weren't any full power punches in those videos. How many months have you been training in this 1st ever, MMA gym that you signed up with?  About 3-6 months, tops?
> 
> And you still seem to think that full power means to throw every single strike at full power. I already told you that nobody does this, not even in fights in the ring,  unless it's a quick knockout or fights that doesn't go over 1 round.
> 
> The first video with the KO, certainly had full power punches as he was clearly loading up his body. I sparred with both of them and know what their full power is.



I've boxed since I was 12 bud.

New gym, not new experience.

and no Im not saying thats what full power means.

But its no mystery that in the videos of pros sparring, they arent going for the KO.

Your Gym "in the hood" comment is laughable,


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## FriedRice

Buka said:


> Sorry for the double post.
> 
> If you spar more than once in a great while, whatever manner of sparring, rolling, knifing, wrestling, whatever - in the world of contact training and/or competition, and/or self defense, the importance of your sparring program should be paramount. It should be conducted in a professional, hence, safe manner. I don't care if it's a boxing gym, a dojo, a club or a garage, if you don't know how to do it safely and the person in charge doesn't know the difference between all manners of sparring, you have a problem on your hands. A big problem.
> 
> Look to those who do it best, anywhere in the world. Listen to them.
> Intenionally trying to KO a sparring partner won't be found in their world.




I just showed you a video of a guy getting KO'ed by a Pro Boxer.  And this gym has World Champion Title Holders in Boxing, training there.  And this isn't even a top gym or anything.  Then next, there's the video of 2 fighters sparring from Mayweather's gym trying to knock each others head off. That's just one of many similar videos from there....I just didn't feel like linking that many. Mayweather, the top Boxer of the world for many years now and just made $180,000,000.00 for just 1 fight..... his gym, not high level?


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## FriedRice

Drose427 said:


> I've boxed since I was 12 bud.



You must be an awesome Boxer. What's your fight record in Boxing?



> New gym, not new experience.



How many months at this new gym? Right before that, you were in Krav Maga for under 2 years.



> and no Im not saying thats what full power means.



Then tell me, what does full power means and what does sparring up to throwing full power means?



> But its no mystery that in the videos of pros sparring, they arent going for the KO.



Say what? The first video showed the guy getting KO'ed.  CGI?



> Your Gym "in the hood" comment is laughable,



Never been to one right?


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## Drose427

FriedRice said:


> You must be an awesome Boxer. What's your fight record in Boxing?
> 
> 
> 
> How many months at this new gym? Right before that, you were in Krav Maga for under 2 years.
> 
> 
> 
> Then tell me, what does full power means and what does sparring up to throwing full power means?
> 
> 
> 
> Say what? The first video showed the guy getting KO'ed.  CGI?
> 
> 
> 
> Never been to one right?



as a minor, 10-3, as an adult 3-0 

never touched krav, but whatever you wanna think

Idk why you keep going to full power when in videos of any high level pro sparring, they arent hitting their partner near as hard as an opponent...

Nobody got ko'ed in your "intense sparring" or tyson video.

ams knocking each other out just shows a gyms irresponsibility

and actually I grew up in Indinapolis' ghetto. Most of my boxing training, came from a gym in the ghetto.


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## FriedRice

Drose427 said:


> as a minor, 10-3, as an adult 3-0
> 
> never touched krav, but whatever you wanna think



We'll see I guess.



> Idk why you keep going to full power when in videos of any high level pro sparring, they arent hitting their partner near as hard as an opponent...



You just can't see it then. 



> Nobody got ko'ed in your "intense sparring" or tyson video.



I said "The first video....", this would imply the first video I posted...which would mean post #14.



> ams knocking each other out just shows a gyms irresponsibility
> 
> and actually I grew up in Indinapolis' ghetto. Most of my boxing training, came from a gym in the ghetto.



You still haven't told me what sparring with up to full power means.


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## Buka

FriedRice said:


> Ooh, add me too. I've trained and sparred with World Champion and Legend, Ernesto Hoost
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But what does this mean really? Absolutely nothing, other than dropping names. He went light and I didn't dare go hard. While if I spar against someone my equal skill level and it's agreed upon  that it's "HARD SPARRING", then I'm going to try to knock him out. Do I spar hard and try to KO Noobs and Women? No.  I usually tell them that they can go full power but I won't, just so I can get a good work out in.
> 
> Go to a Boxing gym in the 'hood. It's common for coaches to feed Noobs to experienced fighters, who are training for an upcoming fight, to get their confidence up by knocking them the "freak" out. Win-Win situation.....the fighters gets a moving punching bag to work on while the Coach finds out which noob serious and/or has heart. Weeds out the noobs real fast. You guys never been to a gym in the 'hood before, have you....and I'm not talking about the Cardio Boxing class, but for the sparring. They don't play around.



The dropping of names is more a point of reference than anything else. I've only been to boxing gyms in what you call the hood. I have never, ever seen a coach feed a noob to an experienced fighter. I don't even know, or know OF, an experienced fighter that would eat up a noob, never mind try to knock him out. And to get their confidence up? C'mon, man, you know that doesn't happen.
And you don't find out anything about a noob's heart by having him get fed to an experienced fighter. And no, they don't "play around", they train as professionals train.

But, I do appreciate and applaud what you said first, about not going hard with noobs and ladies.

And it must have been a blast working with Hoost. I wouldn't have dared gone hard with him either.


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## FriedRice

Buka said:


> The dropping of names is more a point of reference than anything else. I've only been to boxing gyms in what you call the hood. I have never, ever seen a coach feed a noob to an experienced fighter. I don't even know, or know OF, an experienced fighter that would eat up a noob, never mind try to knock him out. And to get their confidence up? C'mon, man, you know that doesn't happen.
> And you don't find out anything about a noob's heart by having him get fed to an experienced fighter. And no, they don't "play around", they train as professionals train.



Haha, I must be seeing things then when I see noobs getting KO'ed. Or when I visited Sugar Ray's gyms in da 'hood....I get dropped so many times and have to stop sparring for about 3-4 weeks to recover. It must be my imagination...imagination so good that I was feeling it all over.  



> But, I do appreciate and applaud what you said first, about not going hard with noobs and ladies.
> 
> And it must have been a blast working with Hoost. I wouldn't have dared gone hard with him either.



Thanks bro, you're the best


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## Danny T

FriedRice said:


> ...notice, I not petty to report people when they hurl insults. Not saying that it's you, since I don't really know who these petty people are.


??? What?



FriedRice said:


> That's the choice that people make. It's their choice..


Correct. Not arguing that.
But being that you brought it up...; just because one chooses to do a particular thing doesn't make it a good choice or that it is the best way. 
No one way is the best however some are better than others depending upon the desired results... Short term as well as long term.



FriedRice said:


> You're not the final authority on what constitutes correct training. If you're scared of neurological disorders or getting hit hard to spar full power for KO's, that's fine by me. I'm not forcing you. Just don't tell me that only your way is the correct one.


I never stated I was and never stated my way is the only correct one. I simply stated a particular way, in my opinion, is foolish. Nothing personal.



FriedRice said:


> I'm scared of heights, that's why I don't skydive as a sport. Plenty of people are scared of getting punched repeatedly in the face as a sport, that's why not everyone's a fighter in an MMA or even Boxing gym.


I agree somewhat. There are plenty of people who are scared of being punched in the face. Some aren't scared but simply don't like it.
I see and have seen a lot of beginners who have learned to over come their fear of being hit but still never become a fighter. Others never fight in a competition but are fighters non the less. Some over come the fear and do become fighters. There are those who come in wanting to fight, wanting to prove themselves. Of them some are just bullies wanting to showoff (they don't last long) others become fighters. Of those who become fighters most never get higher than local or regional level. Every now and then we have the few who become state champions, title holders, some become pros. Of those who become pros again some are local event pros. Every now and then there is one or two who become high level making it into the high ranks of professionals in Boxing, Grappling, MMA, Muay Thai.
For the most part those who get to the high levels and stay there are usually well trained, highly disciplined, athletes who train hard and train smart.


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## Buka

Speaking as the old fool that I am, I'll tell you one thing I'd cut off a finger for if I could change. I would eliminate three quarters, if not more, of the hard head contact I've been through. Everytime I forget something, which we all do as we age, I say to myself, "Uh oh". It's kind of scary.

I run into so many guys I used to box with that don't speak too clearly anymore. Makes me want to cry.


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## FriedRice

Danny T said:


> Correct. Not arguing that.
> But being that you brought it up...; just because one chooses to do a particular thing doesn't make it a good choice or that it is the best way.
> No one way is the best however some are better than others depending upon the desired results... Short term as well as long term.



Just your opinion and I don't agree.



> I agree somewhat. There are plenty of people who are scared of being punched in the face. Some aren't scared but simply don't like it.



It's still fear, and therefore being scared. Whether being scared of long term brain damage, etc. it's still being scared. And fear always exists. If you say that you're never scared or hardly ever scared, then you've definitely not sparred hard for KO's enough or at all. I certainly fear those who can beat me down, every time I spar hard vs. them....and it's usually mostly about me surviving until the bell rings. 



> For the most part those who get to the high levels and stay there are usually well trained, highly disciplined, athletes who train hard and train smart.



It still includes sparring hard for KO's, like this one:


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## Buka

FriedRice said:


> It still includes sparring hard for KO's, like this one:



I have no problem with that kind of sparring at all. Not really hard, just another day in the boxing gym. 
Keep your hands up, fellas.


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## Drose427

FriedRice said:


> Just your opinion and I don't agree.
> 
> 
> 
> It's still fear, and therefore being scared. Whether being scared of long term brain damage, etc. it's still being scared. And fear always exists. If you say that you're never scared or hardly ever scared, then you've definitely not sparred hard for KO's enough or at all. I certainly fear those who can beat me down, every time I spar hard vs. them....and it's usually mostly about me surviving until the bell rings.
> 
> 
> 
> It still includes sparring hard for KO's, like this one:




How exactly is this "sparring for Ko's?" Heck when a fighter was on the ropes, the other fighter was pulling a lot of power out of his punches.

Thats definitely not "Sparring for a Ko"







Above is a video of Tyson in a match, throwing punches for knockouts.

Below is your own video of him sparring. Theres a pretty decent discrepancy in power in all the punches.





Why?

Cause Tyson (one of the greatest modern boxers) was sparring hard like boxers do, not fighting a match which someone in a training session. 

Even pros arent trying to Ko their partner.


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## Danny T

FriedRice said:


> Just your opinion and I don't agree.


So you are saying that when one chooses to do something it is always good and is the best to do? 
And there is only one way to do something, never different ways. Nor are some ways being better than others?
Interesting.



FriedRice said:


> It's still fear, and therefore being scared.


Not liking something is fear? 
To like means -
: to enjoy something
: to get pleasure from something
: to feel affection for someone or something
Just wanting to understand. Are you saying to not like something, to not enjoy or get pleasure from something means one is in fear of it?



FriedRice said:


> Whether being scared of long term brain damage, etc. it's still being scared. And fear always exists.


Agreed and many of us feel one can train well, be well prepared though good training with hard sparring being a part of it but without trying to ko each other. Again sometimes because we are going hard ko's do happen but not because we are trying to get a ko.



FriedRice said:


> If you say that you're never scared or hardly ever scared, then you've definitely not sparred hard for KO's enough or at all.


OK. I never said I wasn't scared. 
You said I was scared and that I was not well trained because I did not spar to get a ko. 

You also said, "Plenty of people are scared of getting punched repeatedly in the face as a sport, that's why not everyone's a fighter in an MMA or even Boxing gym." ( I agreed with you.)
You even said of yourself, "I'm scared of heights, that's why I don't skydive as a sport."

You admit are scared. 
"I certainly fear those who can beat me down, every time I spar hard vs. them....and it's usually mostly about me surviving until the bell rings".

Please bear with me 
If I don't spar to ko I'm scared, poorly trained, and not very good.
You spar to ko so you are scared, well trained, and it's mostly about surviving.

Oookay. Interesting perspective.








FriedRice said:


> It still includes sparring hard for KO's, like this one:


Some good sparring, no ko. Hard, respectful, no ko. No one hurt and can train hard again tomorrow.


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## FriedRice

Buka said:


> I have no problem with that kind of sparring at all. Not really hard, just another day in the boxing gym.
> Keep your hands up, fellas.



Haha, so now you're saying that this is not hard sparring when they're clearly trying to KO each other: 




And Danny T. agrees with you yet vehemently calls it "foolish" in other posts. 

Most things the two of you say, don't add up.


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## FriedRice

Drose427 said:


> How exactly is this "sparring for Ko's?" Heck when a fighter was on the ropes, the other fighter was pulling a lot of power out of his punches.
> 
> Thats definitely not "Sparring for a Ko"



I clearly told you, the 1st video in post #14. If you can't understand what this means, then I doubt I can help you.


----------



## FriedRice

Danny T said:


> So you are saying that when one chooses to do something it is always good and is the best to do?
> And there is only one way to do something, never different ways. Nor are some ways being better than others?
> Interesting.



Nice try, but good for different reasons. I already told you it is about taking risks. And you just agreed with Buka in post #51 that this isn't hard sparring for KO's: 







> Not liking something is fear?
> To like means -
> : to enjoy something
> : to get pleasure from something
> : to feel affection for someone or something
> Just wanting to understand. Are you saying to not like something, to not enjoy or get pleasure from something means one is in fear of it?



In your case, I'm pretty sure. Most people who try very hard to argue that they don't fear hard sparring, usually are very afraid.



> Agreed and many of us feel one can train well, be well prepared though good training with hard sparring being a part of it but without trying to ko each other. Again sometimes because we are going hard ko's do happen but not because we are trying to get a ko.



The video above is 2 guys trying to knock each others heads off and you agreed with Buka that it was fine to spar like that. I don't know you personally, but what you continue to say gives me the feeling that you've never sparred for KO's before, so definitely, no full contact fights.



> OK. I never said I wasn't scared.
> You said I was scared and that I was not well trained because I did not spar to get a ko.



I don't think I said that you weren't well trained....because this can mean a lot of things. However fighting full contact, this I believe, you never have.



> You also said, "Plenty of people are scared of getting punched repeatedly in the face as a sport, that's why not everyone's a fighter in an MMA or even Boxing gym." ( I agreed with you.)
> You even said of yourself, "I'm scared of heights, that's why I don't skydive as a sport."
> 
> You admit are scared.
> "I certainly fear those who can beat me down, every time I spar hard vs. them....and it's usually mostly about me surviving until the bell rings".
> 
> Please bear with me
> If I don't spar to ko I'm scared, poorly trained, and not very good.



Probably, yes.



> You spar to ko so you are scared, well trained, and it's mostly about surviving.
> 
> Oookay. Interesting perspective.



It  would depend on whom I spar with.



> Some good sparring, no ko. Hard, respectful, no ko. No one hurt and can train hard again tomorrow.



Hard sparring to you, just not to me.


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## Danny T

Yep, Good Hard Sparring. I agree with Buka. No ko. But hard & respectful. No one hurt and can train again tomorrow. Good Sparring. 
I Agree with good hard sparring.
I am referring to the video I agreed with Buka on. Why do you not consider it good hard sparring?


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## Dirty Dog

FriedRice said:


> In your case, I'm pretty sure. Most people who try very hard to argue that they don't fear hard sparring, usually are very afraid.



I would very much like to see the study from which this conclusion is drawn.
If you can't provide one, you could just admit that you made it up.


----------



## Buka

FriedRice said:


> Haha, so now you're saying that this is not hard sparring when they're clearly trying to KO each other:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And Danny T. agrees with you yet vehemently calls it "foolish" in other posts.
> 
> Most things the two of you say, don't add up.



Ah. It takes me a while to catch on sometimes. C'est la vie. 

Have a nice day, kid.


----------



## Drose427

FriedRice said:


> I clearly told you, the 1st video in post #14. If you can't understand what this means, then I doubt I can help you.



I know.

I used those videos because they were vids you posted that counteract your whole point, heck you just said they were "Trying to ko" each other

They clearly arent, or they wouldnt have let each other of the ropes, eased up attacks when they werent defending as well, etc.


----------



## Buka

From last night's UFC card. Poor quality vid but a must for any fight fan, especially an MMA fan. Well worth fifteen minutes of your time






I know competition is different from sparring but when discussing intentionally trying to knock someone the F out, as Fried Rice so eloquently put it, you don't see that in most fights, some fights are snooze fests. But this is what it actually looks like to try and KO, with every technique thrown. (in case anyone wants to talk about what attempting to KO someone actually looks like)

This is a great fight. Worth the time and poor vid.


----------



## Tez3

MMA Features - Brain Trauma In MMA And The Stubbornness That Comes With It YourMMA.tv


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## RowdyAz

Tez3 said:


> MMA Features - Brain Trauma In MMA And The Stubbornness That Comes With It YourMMA.tv


It's a good thing that they have a choice whether or not to put themselves through the punishment they take. To some it's stupidity to others it's a lifestyle. Some whinge about the money and some don't care, they just do it. Regardless of what side of the fence people are on we all must respect their work ethic and commitment


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## Danny T

The trauma from the fights is bad enough and the long term effects are indisputable. So smart training is important.
I have tremendous respect for those who train hard, prepare properly, and step into the ring/cage.


----------



## Steve

Tez3 said:


> MMA Features - Brain Trauma In MMA And The Stubbornness That Comes With It YourMMA.tv


Anyone know who this guy is?  While the premise makes a lot of good sense, the article isn't well written and has zero substance.  Does this guy have any credentials?


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## Buka

Steve said:


> Anyone know who this guy is?  While the premise makes a lot of good sense, the article isn't well written and has zero substance.  Does this guy have any credentials?



A few, interesting points, yes. 

Steve, you have a fine detector of the bovine X and Y chromosone.


----------

