# The "Battle" Punch or "Arrow" Punch



## KPM (Dec 14, 2015)

The "Battle" Punch was put forth as an example of a Pole technique that is exactly like a Wing Chun empty-hand technique.  But I see this mostly as a conditioning exercise in preparation for learning the pole, and not something that has a lot of application in its own right. Therefore not an actual "empty-hand" technique.  Some say it is a "long range" punch.  But when you look at it...when you drop down in that deep stance and punch, your fist barely extends past your own knee.  So how can this be "long range"?  Does anyone find this useful in real application?
















Of note, this exercise is NOT found in Tang Yik Weng Chun Pole training.  I suspect it is unique to the Ip Man system.


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## wckf92 (Dec 14, 2015)

KPM said:


> The "Battle" Punch was put forth as an example of a Pole technique that is exactly like a Wing Chun empty-hand technique.  But I see this mostly as a conditioning exercise in preparation for learning the pole, and not something that has a lot of application in its own right. Therefore not an actual "empty-hand" technique.  Some say it is a "long range" punch.  But when you look at it...when you drop down in that deep stance and punch, your fist barely extends past your own knee.  So how can this be "long range"?  Does anyone find this useful in real application?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That is NOT what I said. I said 'pole punch'


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## guy b. (Dec 14, 2015)

KPM said:


> The "Battle" Punch was put forth as an example of a Pole technique that is exactly like a Wing Chun empty-hand technique.  But I see this mostly as a conditioning exercise in preparation for learning the pole, and not something that has a lot of application in its own right. Therefore not an actual "empty-hand" technique.  Some say it is a "long range" punch.  But when you look at it...when you drop down in that deep stance and punch, your fist barely extends past your own knee.  So how can this be "long range"?  Does anyone find this useful in real application?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Lol 3 examples done wrong.


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## Touch Of Death (Dec 14, 2015)

Looks like a good work-out.


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## drop bear (Dec 14, 2015)

Yes sort of. Some factors that generally apply when I train is sometimes you can't train the correct technique and be successful. To body punch you generally don't want to bend forwards at the hip. But you will if you are lazy or your core and legs are week. So to train a good body shot you may benifit from training in that over emphasised position. And then adopt a more natural movement to fight it on.

Otherwise mayweather has a body jab that is similar.


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## dudewingchun (Dec 14, 2015)

Trying to find a better example. I dont know why im doing this I dont even practice Duncan Leung lol But i quite like there idea. 
at 25 seconds I believe that is training that pole punch. Anyone who does D.L wing chun in real life want to comment ?


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## KPM (Dec 14, 2015)

wckf92 said:


> That is NOT what I said. I said 'pole punch'



Ok.  Then what were you talking about?


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## KPM (Dec 14, 2015)

dudewingchun said:


> Trying to find a better example. I dont know why im doing this I dont even practice Duncan Leung lol But i quite like there idea.
> at 25 seconds I believe that is training that pole punch. Anyone who does D.L wing chun in real life want to comment ?



I'd say that's a bit of a stretch!  Doesn't look like the pole punch to me!


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## KPM (Dec 14, 2015)

guy b. said:


> Lol 3 examples done wrong.



Ok.  So what is the right way?


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## dudewingchun (Dec 14, 2015)

KPM said:


> I'd say that's a bit of a stretch!  Doesn't look like the pole punch to me!



Oh what were you talking about. Its pretty much the same just without the horse stance. The power comes from push/pull. The back hand pulls and the punching hand pushes. Maybe I can find a better example.  Or maybe I am thinking about something different to what you are talking about


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## KPM (Dec 14, 2015)

dudewingchun said:


> Oh what were you talking about. Its pretty much the same just without the horse stance. The power comes from push/pull. The back hand pulls and the punching hand pushes. Maybe I can find a better example.  Or maybe I am thinking about something different to what you are talking about



That sideways  or "side body" punch is a typical punch in both Pin Sun and Yuen Kay Shan Wing Chun.  It is not associated with the Pole at all.  When I think about this "battle punch" I'm thinking about what is shown in those videos, where the deep horse  stance is a key feature, and punching across your own body from the rear hand is a key feature.   After all, it was put forth as an "identical" technique shared by Pole and Empty-hand.  At least I thought it was.  Wtx needs to clarify what he was talking about.


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## dudewingchun (Dec 14, 2015)

KPM said:


> That sideways  or "side body" punch is a typical punch in both Pin Sun and Yuen Kay Shan Wing Chun.  It is not associated with the Pole at all.  When I think about this "battle punch" I'm thinking about what is shown in those videos, where the deep horse  stance is a key feature, and punching across your own body from the rear hand is a key feature.   After all, it was put forth as an "identical" technique shared by Pole and Empty-hand.



Oh okay. My bad.


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## wckf92 (Dec 14, 2015)

KPM said:


> Ok.  Then what were you talking about?



Not 'battle' punches!


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## KPM (Dec 15, 2015)

wckf92 said:


> Not 'battle' punches!


 
That it is not an answer.  Are you here to actually participate in discussions or not?


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## wckf92 (Dec 15, 2015)

KPM said:


> That it is not an answer.  Are you here to actually participate in discussions or not?



I will participate, once I'm done correcting your wayward verbiage. 

A pole punch is not a battle punch. I agree with you that battle punches are more of a conditioning exercise  (I hated doing them in class!)...and I would also agree that battle punch is not a very good 'technique' (since you seem to think a battle punch was what I was referring to when I said pole punch on the other thread). 
A pole punch derives from the standing thrust in the pole form. If you have learned 3 or 4 entire WC versions...and are also studying tang Yik pole methods...I assumed you would know what a pole punch is.


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## KPM (Dec 15, 2015)

I will participate, once I'm done correcting your wayward verbiage. 

---My bad.  I jumped to a conclusion about what you were talking about.

 I agree with you that battle punches are more of a conditioning exercise  (I hated doing them in class!)...and I would also agree that battle punch is not a very good 'technique'

---I'm glad we agree on something!  

A pole punch derives from the standing thrust in the pole form. If you have learned 3 or 4 entire WC versions...and are also studying tang Yik pole methods...I assumed you would know what a pole punch is.

---Not all lineages use the same terminology.  Can you be more specific?   Thanks.


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## wckf92 (Dec 15, 2015)

KPM said:


> ---Not all lineages use the same terminology.  Can you be more specific?   Thanks.



Sorry, but I'm not sure what the Chinese term is for that move... idk, maybe bil / bui (?)


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## KPM (Dec 15, 2015)

wckf92 said:


> Sorry, but I'm not sure what the Chinese term is for that move... idk, maybe bil / bui (?)



Any video out there showing it?  Not quite sure which move you are referring to.


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## dudewingchun (Dec 15, 2015)

Feels like everyone is talking about a different technique  and getting confused


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## wckf92 (Dec 15, 2015)

KPM said:


> Any video out there showing it?



Not that I am aware of.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Dec 15, 2015)

KPM said:


> Ok.  So what is the right way?


The back foot should not point 45 degree backward.


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## KPM (Dec 16, 2015)

wckf92 said:


> Not that I am aware of.


 
Ok.  You said earlier:   "A pole punch derives from the standing thrust in the pole form" and said it might be referred to as "Biu."   That sounds an awful lot like the "side body punch" I referred to above from Pin Sun and Yuen Kay Shan, and the punch Sean was trying to illustrate from Duncan Leung's students.  As I noted, this is not associated with the Pole at all in those systems.


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## wckf92 (Dec 16, 2015)

KPM said:


> Ok.  You said earlier:   "A pole punch derives from the standing thrust in the pole form" and said it might be referred to as "Biu."   That sounds an awful lot like the "side body punch" I referred to above from Pin Sun and Yuen Kay Shan, and the punch Sean was trying to illustrate from Duncan Leung's students.  As I noted, this is not associated with the Pole at all in those systems.



Hmmm. Understood. 
Well, all I know is that particular punch is not expressed fully until pole form. I will have to see if I can find some pole forms on YouTube to maybe clarify a little.


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## guy b. (Dec 22, 2015)

KPM said:


> Ok.  So what is the right way?



The right way teaches basic momentum power for wing chun with upper lower body coordination. It is like idiots guide, before you start to build power with pole. These examples do not do that. I don't wish to force my version of this upon you, I just don't think that these arrow punches are doing anything useful.


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