# Differences between Northern and Southern Mantis



## ninhito (Nov 16, 2004)

sifu AdamsI no nothing about Ninjutsu but it seems to be a art full of weapons and steath moves. However I practise southern Matis under Master Jin Foon Mark

uuum ui have a question maybe uit deosnt belong here but whats the difference in Southern and Northern Mantis kung fu.


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## sifu Adams (Nov 16, 2004)

The differance between northern Mantis and souther mantis is like most kung fu.  the northern styles have wider movement and open the body more.  example the northern mantis has head level kicks the southern styles don't kick above the waist.  I have 5 northen forms.  they all involve kicking that a TKD student would love.  one of the forms has blitzing moves with the hands and kicks, one has traping moves with the hands and legs.  the southern style I have the feet are in a cross between a V and T stance you see in wing chung, the shoulders are rolled in and arms out. hopfuly this will help.


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## 7starmantis (Nov 16, 2004)

Wow, I hadn't heard put that way before. What are the 5 northern forms you have?

7sm


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## sifu Adams (Nov 16, 2004)

Tang Lang Che Ju          Thrust of the Praying Mantis
Tang Lang Chung Sen    The Blitz  Praying Manits
Tang Lang Poo Foo        The Trap of the Praying Mantis
Tang Lang Chien             The Praying Mantis Form

Luo Han Chien       Fist of Lo Han

The last one we were told was beginning form for the mantis.  Its the only one that dose not look like a mantis when done. the others are look like the mantis all the way thru the form.  I have been trying to find what style they come from but have had no luck.  one thing is for sure they have true aplicantion and made for street fighting so they are not made up.  I have been told they are a anchent style.


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## 7starmantis (Nov 17, 2004)

Interesting. They are deffinitely not 7* I can at least help you that far. Also you said something about northern having kicks like TKD, I've never seen any kicks that are close to that high. It may be that particular school or teacher, because that would really start me thinking that they were not legit. At least in 7* we use mainly groin, knee. There are higher kicks, but most are soft spot attacks and usually only used after a "pluck" to bring them down low. 

7sm


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## TigerWoman (Nov 17, 2004)

I was a judge at a tournament where a Shaolin Kung Fu practitioner did form.  He did a very high sidekick.  Don't remember what form it was though but he said it was northern style.  TW


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## 7starmantis (Nov 17, 2004)

TigerWoman said:
			
		

> I was a judge at a tournament where a Shaolin Kung Fu practitioner did form. He did a very high sidekick. Don't remember what form it was though but he said it was northern style. TW


 Yeah, northern Shaolin is different from northern mantis. Most CMA are seperated into Northern and Southern, and then even further by style. Wushu and most shaolin styles are very flashy and use high kicks like that. 

  7sm


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## 7starmantis (Nov 17, 2004)

Its just that I've never really heard anyone define the differences between northern adn southern mantis using "high kicks". 

7sm


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## clfsean (Nov 17, 2004)

Me neither. I've got a version of Lan Jeet from Taiji Meihua & it's a "northern" set, but I can count the kicks in it (including the obvious sweeps) on 1 hand. No kicks above the waist. I've seen late Master Brendan Lai & Henry Poo Yee both do sets. They aren't even close to resembling the same creature.


Nothern & Southern Mantis are about as different as night & day. Not even the same creature (no pun intended). Different theories & methodologies in fighting, power generation, etc... The big simularity is that they both use a bug as a system name.


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## Blooming Lotus (Nov 20, 2004)

What's with this : http://www.usadojo.com/aboutprayingmantis.htm 

so tang lang means preying mantis ???

lohan ( arhat) is definately shaolin but errrm........am I reading this right 7* ???

http://www.centralshaolin.com/cshaolin_pages/material_list.html


on the lohan _chien _though, what is that?? A drunken form?? oh..here it is ...........

drunken fist boxing , scroll down to number 4 Central Shaolin Martial arts : Material List.

Learn something new everyday ha   

BL

Ps: don't quote me, but I think the difference between practically _all_ southern vs northern branches is exactly like you say,  sthn more dynamic on the hands and northern with more feet and aerials.


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## Blooming Lotus (Nov 20, 2004)

sifu Adams said:
			
		

> the southern style I have the feet are in a cross between a V and T stance you see in wing chung, the shoulders are rolled in and arms out. hopfuly this will help.


Is just me or does that sound like xingyi ( which is what . from sthn shoalin??? ) ???  What's your balance doing there????  Actually that would make sense, because I was thinking the same about sevens comment about the kicks.  Learnt the same in sthn china from a sthn shaolin / xingyi shifu.......  

I don't know how reliable the source is but I found this if it helps 

http://tkdtutor.com/02Taekwondo/Styles/Chinese.htm

and there's this http://tkdtutor.com/02Taekwondo/Styles/Chinese.htm

mantis on part 3 section 16.29 , and it doesn't outright  say that nthn has high kicks but it does give sub-branches of which the above listed drunken styles from shaolin are included .  Chjeck it out anyway.....

cheers

Blooming Lotus


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## clfsean (Nov 20, 2004)

Xingyi isn't southern. It's northern from Henan, Shaanxi or Hebei provinces. Here's a good site to read up on it at http://www.chinafrominside.com/ . 

As far as Southern Mantis not looking like a bug... not quite. Watch a mantis move, stalk & listen with its arms & then watch Gin Foon Mark or Poo Yee or other Jook Lum Mantis players. You'll see the resemblance. IMHO, SPM looks more like a bug than NPM with no offense to the NPM players. 

Lohan/Arhat isn't specifically Shaolin but Buddhist in nature. There are many systems that use the term Lohan throughout their techniques that aren't necessarily Shaolin. One that comes to mind is Chen Taiji. Another is Wah Lum Tam Tui Praying Manits. Both are not Shaolin arts (arguably) but use the Lohan term in techniques.


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## 7starmantis (Nov 20, 2004)

clfsean said:
			
		

> As far as Southern Mantis not looking like a bug... not quite. Watch a mantis move, stalk & listen with its arms & then watch Gin Foon Mark or Poo Yee or other Jook Lum Mantis players. You'll see the resemblance. IMHO, SPM looks more like a bug than NPM with no offense to the NPM players.


 I agree. The SPM guys I've seen even do the "blowing in the wind" movement that the bug does while stalking. I've never been really clear on where 7 * sits in the Northern Vs Southern debate and this just helps confirm what I've thought. 7 star is generally accepted as northern, but its fighting and training lend themselves more to southern I believe. At my school our beginning forms are all Wah Lum (my sigung was a master instructor under Chan Poi at one time) and they are more "flashy" or better put "arial" or cardiovascular in nature. When our students compete in tourneys for forms we almost allways have them do a wah lum form as they tend to look "better." I think the lines between the mantis systems are blurred more than most realize. Everyone says northern uses high kicks and arials, yet at my school we use simultaneous low kicks and strikes. I think 7 star is really out of the northern-southern field and is its own "animal" if you will. 

  7sm


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## Blooming Lotus (Nov 20, 2004)

clfsean said:
			
		

> Lohan/Arhat isn't specifically Shaolin but Buddhist in nature. There are many systems that use the term Lohan throughout their techniques that aren't necessarily Shaolin. One that comes to mind is Chen Taiji. Another is Wah Lum Tam Tui Praying Manits. Both are not Shaolin arts (arguably) but use the Lohan term in techniques.


right on. Arguabley is definately the word!

side note on xingyi : is from hebei / shaanxi/ henan, according to earliest but tentative reports  ie : all close promximity to 1st nthn shaolin temple ( lioayang in henan province ) which btw preceded the sthn , so draw your own conclusions and apology for the thread-jack relevant as it is or isn't.

cheers

bl


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## clfsean (Nov 20, 2004)

I studied Xingyi for a while. I was providing the link for your benefit. I've read the histories & legends.


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## Blooming Lotus (Nov 20, 2004)

cheers   When I get time I'll check it out .

BL


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## sifu Adams (Nov 29, 2004)

Here is some referaces that talk about northern and southern styles and how the northern was known for kicking. http://www.northstarmartialarts.com/nshaolin.html



http://www.wle.com/kungfu/shaolin.htm



http://www.kungfu-wusu.com/cmp/shaolin.html


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