# What type of martial art is for me?



## firelake (Mar 28, 2017)

Hi all. 

I have absolutely no background in martial arts. 

I am looking to get a corrections officer job in the future which means working in jails with inmates. As such, I'd like to boost my skills beyond what they teach in academy, however I am not certain which type of martial art is best suited for me. 

Fending off attacks, blows, grabs, being knocked down, that kind of thing. Of course the possibility of an attack with a shank or other fashioned weapon is also possible. I have no idea which type of martial art would possibly encompass all of these. Karate doesn't seem to be the way to go.

Thanks.


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## Martial_Kumite (Mar 28, 2017)

By what you are describing, Aikido and When Chun seems to be likely choices. I am not an expert on them, so take that with a grain of salt. I would also do research into Karate because the are some branches of it that are quite defensive by nature.  Tang Soo Do (my primary MA) Is defensive and has a variety of moves and trainings for grabs, blows, and weapon attacks and defense. 

Also, keep in mind what you would be more interested in learning. If you join something that you have interest in learning, it will make remembering, learning, and acquiring muscle memory 10 times easier.

Hoped this helped, and Good luck


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## Midnight-shadow (Mar 28, 2017)

If you have many years to invest to develop your skills, I would go with Aikido. If you want something you can use effectively in a shorter time frame, go for a grappling art like BJJ or Judo.


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## That-a-Way (Mar 28, 2017)

I'm no expert, but I think Krav Maga is right for you. There is a lot about defending from armed attacks and rapidly neutralizing threats.


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## firelake (Mar 28, 2017)

Thanks for the replies.

Does anyone have an opinion on Danzan Ryu Jujitsu or Kempo Karate?


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## kuniggety (Mar 28, 2017)

You've already narrowed down that you're going primarily for self defense. The actual art matters less than how they train. Find some schools near you and go and watch. Are they actually punching, kicking, and throwing each other to the ground? Or are they doing it to the air? While the latter meets some people's needs for fitness, personal devrlopment, etc., it won't give you the hands on training that you need.


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## wingerjim (Mar 29, 2017)

Hi firelake I would also find some training in joint locks such as was mentioned with Aikido and BJJ or Chin Na. One of my fellow student's father is a CO at our local Max Security State Pens and he has used joint locks on several occasions in his career.


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## oftheherd1 (Mar 29, 2017)

If there is any Hapkido taught in your area, look into that.  Aikido would be good, as would Jujitsu or Judo.  Also see if there are any Okinawa based Karate schools around.  I have heard many of them have a lot of grappling.

Just my personal opinion, which others are free to dispute, I think most MA would be good if you go to a school which teaches properly, and you practice and learn properly.  What's most likely to be disputed is BJJ.  I am sure it is a good MA, but what I keep seeing here in MT, the main goal is to get an opponent on the ground and force a submission.

On the street or in a prison, you are very likely going to have several opponents, if not to begin with, you certainly will when you get down on the ground and start hurting your opponent.  You are much disadvantaged against multiple opponents while you are on the ground.  So I wouldn't go for BJJ.


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## CB Jones (Mar 29, 2017)

I would focus more on striking....maybe something with takedowns or throws, but a good striking system.

Where you go to work should train and certify you in either PPCT, Monadnock, or other system for escorting, takedowns, and pain compliance.


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## Midnight-shadow (Mar 29, 2017)

CB Jones said:


> I would focus more on striking....maybe something with takedowns or throws, but a good striking system.
> 
> Where you go to work should train and certify you in either PPCT, Monadnock, or other system for escorting, takedowns, and pain compliance.



Are correction officers allowed to strike inmates? Or is that considered abuse? I thought the ideal situation was to subdue them without injuring them, which is why I recommended Aikido and Judo over more striking-focused arts.


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## CB Jones (Mar 29, 2017)

If they are resisting you can strike them in certain areas to gain compliance.

If they are actively attacking you....you can whip their **** until you have them under "control"

And when using joint lock or takedowns they typically want you to use techniques that the facility has certified you in.


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## CB Jones (Mar 29, 2017)

And to clarify the reason I say a good striking art....the takedowns/joint locks taught in defensive tactics are decent....the striking they teach in those defensive tactic systems usually suck greatly.


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## Buka (Mar 29, 2017)

I have absolutely no idea, but welcome to MartialTalk, firelake.


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## Bill Mattocks (Mar 29, 2017)

_I know nothing about vehicles, but I'm pretty sure trucks are no good for hauling things._

Think about that and then think about how you came to the conclusion that karate isn't useful for your needs, after admitting you know nothing about the subject.

And welcome to MT.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Mar 29, 2017)

firelake said:


> Thanks for the replies.
> 
> Does anyone have an opinion on Danzan Ryu Jujitsu or Kempo Karate?


I've got the same question as midnight shadow. Are you allowed to purposefully injure the inmate, and is there a possibility of you getting in trouble for it? If so, go with danzan ryu jujitsu. If not, either one should work-try both and see which one you like.
But make certain that kempo karate place teaches joint locks and the like, if you decide to go with it.


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## firelake (Mar 29, 2017)

To answer your question, yeah you're not supposed to purposely hurt an inmate except within certain situations within the bounds of your training. But what I want is extra ability to defend myself in a worst case SHTF scenario or heaven forbid if I find their training isn't adequately subduing someone and it presents an immediate danger.

And yeah, I live in the Denver area and we do have Okinawan karate here. We actually had a couple Japanese Okinawan masters come here and establish dojos, so in that regard we're a little spoiled.Also a lot of Aikido and BJJ being most common besides the karate. There are so many martial arts and unfortunately not much comparative information about them that it's difficult to choose.


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## CB Jones (Mar 29, 2017)

firelake said:


> To answer your question, yeah you're not supposed to purposely hurt an inmate except within certain situations within the bounds of your training. But what I want is extra ability to defend myself in a worst case SHTF scenario or heaven forbid if I find their training isn't adequately subduing someone and it presents an immediate danger.



Just keep in mind that when it comes to takedowns and joint locks if you go outside of what they have certified you in you no longer have the protection of those accepted techniques and you take on the liability.

In an all out attack....not a big deal.  But with just an inmate resisting, using a technique that has not been certified could cause you civil liability problems.


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## Midnight-shadow (Mar 29, 2017)

Well, I think we have a couple of members in the Denver area who could advise you on where to go given your needs.


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## firelake (Mar 29, 2017)

Midnight-shadow said:


> Well, I think we have a couple of members in the Denver area who could advise you on where to go given your needs.



Oh nice, I actually visited an ISKF dojo a couple years ago, but that's the only one I visited.


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## firelake (Mar 29, 2017)

CB Jones said:


> Just keep in mind that when it comes to takedowns and joint locks if you go outside of what they have certified you in you no longer have the protection of those accepted techniques and you take on the liability.
> 
> In an all out attack....not a big deal.  But with just an inmate resisting, using a technique that has not been certified could cause you civil liability problems.



No question. I also realize that the length of an academy is not enough time to teach you adequately what may need to be done in a life-or-death situation, either.


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## Midnight-shadow (Mar 29, 2017)

firelake said:


> No question. I also realize that the length of an academy is not enough time to teach you adequately what may need to be done in a life-or-death situation, either.



I imagine they will give you continuous training and assessments to make sure you are competent even after passing the course.


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## CB Jones (Mar 30, 2017)

Midnight-shadow said:


> I imagine they will give you continuous training and assessments to make sure you are competent even after passing the course.



   No.  They will probably do a 4-8 hour re-trainer for certification purposes once a year and everyone passes that attends.


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## drop bear (Mar 30, 2017)

Wrestling. Some sort of folk style or catch.  With a lot of hand fighting clinch work and getting up off the ground.

Clinch work will negate punches.  Hand fighting will negate weapons. And then all you need to do is learn how to tun an arm control into an arm lock. 

Basically you want to learn how to gain a dominant position and then either cripple them or subdue them.


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## drop bear (Mar 30, 2017)

CB Jones said:


> No.  They will probably do a 4-8 hour re-trainer for certification purposes once a year and everyone passes that attends.



Good old human weapon class. 

Goose necks can be employed under any circumstances by anyone of any size and subdue any attacker because of the magic of pain compliance.


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## Midnight-shadow (Mar 30, 2017)

CB Jones said:


> No.  They will probably do a 4-8 hour re-trainer for certification purposes once a year and everyone passes that attends.



Really? As a lifeguard I have to do 2 hours training a month and all I do is sit in a chair most of the time.....


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## Tez3 (Mar 30, 2017)

firelake said:


> Karate doesn't seem to be the way to go.



Why would you think that if you have never taken it?


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## senseiblackbelt (Mar 30, 2017)

Midnight-shadow said:


> Are correction officers allowed to strike inmates? Or is that considered abuse? I thought the ideal situation was to subdue them without injuring them, which is why I recommended Aikido and Judo over more striking-focused arts.



Correction officers are allowed to strike inmates, provided that its done in self defense ONLY. I'm assuming that if you can subdue them without injuring them, then that is the better alternative. If that's the case, then go for it.


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## drop bear (Mar 30, 2017)

Midnight-shadow said:


> Really? As a lifeguard I have to do 2 hours training a month and all I do is sit in a chair most of the time.....



Yeah McDonald has more training.


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## oftheherd1 (Mar 30, 2017)

CB Jones said:


> And to clarify the reason I say a good striking art....the takedowns/joint locks taught in defensive tactics are decent....the striking they teach in those defensive tactic systems usually suck greatly.



Takedowns and joint locks are decent?  But better to attack them with strikes than takedowns or joint locks?  You would be a favorite as a correctional officer, no doubt.

I see you study Karate.  Does your style also teach grappling techniques?  Or have you studied a grappling art that did not teach strikes?

I agree with you that strikes are important, but I was taught to first work on blocks.  I was taught to use strikes or kicks once it was safe to do so, but would also look to use (even prefer to use) joint locks or a throw.  Then employ a strike at the end of a technique. 

Joint locks imply control.  That is usually preferred in law enforcement or correction type work.  Disregarding effectiveness, striking tends to look like simply fighting in the public's experience.  You may have no choice, and if so, you should give it all you have.  But using a control will usually take the fight out of an opponent.


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## CB Jones (Mar 30, 2017)

oftheherd1 said:


> Takedowns and joint locks are decent?  But better to attack them with strikes than takedowns or joint locks?  You would be a favorite as a correctional officer, no doubt.
> 
> I see you study Karate.  Does your style also teach grappling techniques?  Or have you studied a grappling art that did not teach strikes?
> 
> ...



You are misunderstanding or I did a crummy way of explaining.  I'll try again.

As a correctional officer, he should receive training and certification in some type of defensive tactic system.

The takedowns and joint locks taught are decent techniques they also put you in position for handcuffing.  Using those techniques also provides some protection in civil court if used within policy.

The striking they teach is usually pretty bad.....because it is so bad.  I suggest a good striking art to supplement the lack of quality in that aspect.


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## Steve (Mar 30, 2017)

kuniggety said:


> You've already narrowed down that you're going primarily for self defense. The actual art matters less than how they train. Find some schools near you and go and watch. Are they actually punching, kicking, and throwing each other to the ground? Or are they doing it to the air? While the latter meets some people's needs for fitness, personal devrlopment, etc., it won't give you the hands on training that you need.


This.  How they train matters more than the style.


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## oftheherd1 (Mar 30, 2017)

CB Jones said:


> You are misunderstanding or I did a crummy way of explaining.  I'll try again.
> 
> As a correctional officer, he should receive training and certification in some type of defensive tactic system.
> 
> ...



Ah, I see I did indeed misunderstand.  I must have forgot to engage my brain before I put my fingers in motion.


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## KangTsai (Mar 30, 2017)

You'll do with training in whatever art. However, keep in mind that when someone attacks you in a prison, you should assume it's to kill you. Just keep that in mind when picking.


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## firelake (Mar 30, 2017)

oftheherd1 said:


> Joint locks imply control.  That is usually preferred in law enforcement or correction type work.  Disregarding effectiveness, striking tends to look like simply fighting in the public's experience.  You may have no choice, and if so, you should give it all you have.  But using a control will usually take the fight out of an opponent.



Yeah that's why I'm also looking at the viability of Aikido for that very thing.


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## firelake (Mar 30, 2017)

Tez3 said:


> Why would you think that if you have never taken it?



Looking around at what different arts teach and what I need.


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## CB Jones (Mar 30, 2017)

Again from my experience...you need to know how to strike.  To me that is where training is the most deficient.

A lot of focus on takedowns and joint locks in training....very little in striking and defense.


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## Tez3 (Mar 31, 2017)

firelake said:


> Looking around at what different arts teach and what I need.



Do you know the difference between different styles of karate or are you taking the generic name 'karate' as all being one thing therefore only teaching one thing? Are you assuming that 'karate' is just striking or did you know that most styles actually have everything you need? that it has in addition to strikes, locks, takedowns, holds and a lot more than yo imagine. 'Karate' isn't what you see on 'Karate Kid'. Don't undervalue it because you haven't seen what it offers.


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## CB Jones (Mar 31, 2017)

Tez3 said:


> 'Karate' isn't what you see on 'Karate Kid'. Don't undervalue it because you haven't seen what it offers.



So are you saying I'm not gonna become a karate master by waxing the car and painting the fence?


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## firelake (Mar 31, 2017)

Tez3 said:


> Do you know the difference between different styles of karate or are you taking the generic name 'karate' as all being one thing therefore only teaching one thing? Are you assuming that 'karate' is just striking or did you know that most styles actually have everything you need? that it has in addition to strikes, locks, takedowns, holds and a lot more than yo imagine. 'Karate' isn't what you see on 'Karate Kid'. Don't undervalue it because you haven't seen what it offers.



I'm trying to find out what everything offers, and that's the problem. It's hard to find concrete answers. I visited a Shotokan dojo a couple summers ago and watched a class. It's really difficult to assess an art by short-term observation.

I'm trying to find out what these disciplines offer so I can see what is the best fit for me and also what I can access locally. It's turned into a serious pain in the ***.


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## Jenna (Mar 31, 2017)

CB Jones said:


> So are you saying I'm not gonna become a karate master by waxing the car and painting the fence?


No.. did you not read the curriculum? It is like somewhere near the back.. You must ALSO find an evil dojo -you got one of those in your town right?- and vanquish them.. THEN you will be a karate master..

alternatively, I got a piece of paper right here -is handwritten and stuff.. like we can call it a "certificate" if you like- and this paper will confer karate mastership upon you if you wax my car and paint my fence.. over the next few years I mean.. ha..


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## Tez3 (Mar 31, 2017)

firelake said:


> I'm trying to find out what everything offers, and that's the problem. It's hard to find concrete answers. I visited a Shotokan dojo a couple summers ago and watched a class. It's really difficult to assess an art by short-term observation.
> 
> I'm trying to find out what these disciplines offer so I can see what is the best fit for me and also what I can access locally. It's turned into a serious pain in the ***.



Firstly are you sure you *need* to train martial arts?
It's going to take quite a while to learn any techniques to the point where you can do them instinctively without having to think about it. Have you asked current prison officers what they advise? I know most prison officers here don't have martial arts training, they don't need it. Is it part of the qualifications you need to be eligible for the job? this is what you need to be eligible for the UK job, all sorts of things, there's a physical test, a maths test, eyesight, nationality etc but nothing about being able to do martial arts. This is because you will be taught all the techniques you need  and they will be the legal ones which means you will be covered in any enquiry. Prison officers don't work alone, they work in teams, getting on with your fellow officers might be more important than knowing martial arts! Home | NOMS Careers

If you want to train martial arts but don't need to then choose one you will enjoy regardless of whether you think it will be useful for your job, it will be even if you don't think so because of the benefits of training any art.


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## CB Jones (Mar 31, 2017)

Jenna said:


> No.. did you not read the curriculum? It is like somewhere near the back.. You must ALSO find an evil dojo -you got one of those in your town right?- and vanquish them.. THEN you will be a karate master..
> 
> alternatively, I got a piece of paper right here -is handwritten and stuff.. like we can call it a "certificate" if you like- and this paper will confer karate mastership upon you if you wax my car and paint my fence.. over the next few years I mean.. ha..



I tried vanquishing the evil dojo but they swept my leg and now I have a limp.

So looks like option 2 for me.

By any chance....you wouldn't happen to know the  Miyagi hand clap healing treatment for my leg would you?


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## drop bear (Apr 1, 2017)

CB Jones said:


> I tried vanquishing the evil dojo but they swept my leg and now I have a limp.
> 
> So looks like option 2 for me.
> 
> By any chance....you wouldn't happen to know the  Miyagi hand clap healing treatment for my leg would you?



Yeah it is pretty simple. You clap your hands. Then gather your chi. And then slap the guy and tell him to harden up princess.


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## Transk53 (Apr 1, 2017)

@firelake. Like yourself, I have been thinking about working in prisons. I do think you are looking at this a tad the wrong way. Nothing personal here, but I think looking at a MA as the toolbox armour could get you in a sticky wicket still. For exmple if you did get in to a scrap, and I sincerely hope you don't, but the possibility remains, using MA would advertise that to the inmates, who may decide to target you as being a new guy for starters.

Back in the day for me, the license athourity through whom I got my security badges, used Krav through the up skilling as it is called over here. Personally I think you look towards more certified response training in whatever guise that would be. Krav would be a good place to start. Minimal, non flashy and gets the the job done. Yes learn a martial art for sure, but you don't need to start that journey to learn effective locks, grabs etc, for your employment means. Just my take, but one should never advertise ones skils, just do what is necessary.


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## JR 137 (Apr 1, 2017)

In the Denver area?  I'll tell you the same thing I tell everyone in the Denver area...

Check out Enshin Karate!!!

Enshin was founded by Joko Ninomiya.  He was a legend in Kyokushin karate (full contact/bare knuckle).  He left Kyokushin and eventually formed Enshin.  He took knockdown and added grabs and Judo throws and takedowns.  

His dojo is somewhere in Denver.  I've never been there.  It wouldn't hurt to go in and see what they're doing and if it fits what you're trying to accomplish.


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## firelake (Apr 1, 2017)

Indeed I have looked at Enshin, I just don't know what to make of it. I've been by that dojo more times than I can count.


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## JR 137 (Apr 2, 2017)

firelake said:


> Indeed I have looked at Enshin, I just don't know what to make of it. I've been by that dojo more times than I can count.



Have you gone in and watched?  If you have, and it's not for you, then cross it off your list.


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