# 狼筅 (spike bamboo brush) - Interested ancient Chinese weapon and battle strategy



## Kung Fu Wang (Nov 27, 2016)

By using this small group of 11 soldiers,

- 2 shields with single edge knifes,
- 2 spike bamboo brushes with spear head.
- 4 spears.
- 2 long forks.
- 1 team leader/reserve.

the Chinese history had proved that if Chinese soldiers used this strategy, the death ratio between Chinese soldiers and enemy soldiers could be only 22 to 1,000.

What's your opinion about this Chinese ancient weapon and battle strategy?


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## oaktree (Nov 27, 2016)

I seriously doubt the little spears causing more than scratches, a cautious swordsman would easily move to the side and forward as this spear is to big and clumsy to maneuver well. I think the formation of the army and not this stupid thing helped victories.


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## Gerry Seymour (Nov 27, 2016)

oaktree said:


> I seriously doubt the little spears causing more than scratches, a cautious swordsman would easily move to the side and forward as this spear is to big and clumsy to maneuver well. I think the formation of the army and not this stupid thing helped victories.


I can see it being a bit more problematic than that. Unlike a standard spear, this would potentially trap a sword blade for a moment, making the enemy swordsman more vulnerable to the others in the formation. And those spines could potentially cause some damage to a hand, making it harder to simply grab the spear and pull, or just knock it away with a hand or even the tsuba of a sword. It would complicate things perhaps just enough to make the entire unit a bit more effective. However, as you said, the biggest advantage was in the formation of the group. If you replaced the bamboo brush spear with a standard spear, you'd lose only a little of the effectiveness of the unit.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Nov 27, 2016)

According to the study, since the "bamboo brush spear" can cover more area in front of you than the normal spear can, it will make you feel safer and give you more "courage". More courage means a lot in battle field.


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## Midnight-shadow (Nov 28, 2016)

It looks like a solid formation although having no ranged support could be a problem. I personally would swap out the 2 long fork users for a couple of crossbowman to cover up that weakness.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Nov 28, 2016)

The 1st picture shows the long fork soldiers also carry bags behind their back. they also carry "fire arm". The fork can be used to hold on the fire arm. There is also an "fire arm" soldier (the right most soldier). The long fork soldiers can also throw "short spears".


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## JowGaWolf (Nov 28, 2016)

don't like the spear with the branches.  It doesn't seem practical as they have shown it.  I'm not saying that this weapon was never used, I'm just saying that I don't think they got good mileage out of it.  I would be better off with a waxwood spear.  When I look at a weapon like that, I think of poison. It's clear that the branches don't make a good stabbing tool, but it may work well for delivering poison or bacteria, which enters the body through the small cuts of the blade.  If the guy up front has a shield then he can keep the branches away from him.

I can see how the branches would slow attackers down, it would slow the enemy down even more if the weapon was known to be poisoned or covered with some kind of substance that causes bacterial infection.  If I were fighting an ancient war with sticks, then I would send a small group out to fight a larger group with the purpose of trying to infect as many of the people (via the smaller blades) as possible.  Even if they don't die on the field that that instance they would die or be in no condition to fight the 1 or 2 days after the fight.  Kung Fu is very dirty and deceptive fighting, so this type of warfare would be right in line with the strategies of Chinese fighting being deceptive.  I don't want to have a bacterial infection in modern times so I can see how something like that would wipe out some of those who survived the battle.    Even if the other side won that particular day, once the infection sets in, their winning numbers would be greatly reduced.

To me this would make more sense than just having tiny blades branching out.  The shield would make more sense to me as well since the guy with the shield is always next to the spear with the branches.


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## oaktree (Nov 28, 2016)

gpseymour said:


> I can see it being a bit more problematic than that. Unlike a standard spear, this would potentially trap a sword blade for a moment, making the enemy swordsman more vulnerable to the others in the formation. And those spines could potentially cause some damage to a hand, making it harder to simply grab the spear and pull, or just knock it away with a hand or even the tsuba of a sword. It would complicate things perhaps just enough to make the entire unit a bit more effective. However, as you said, the biggest advantage was in the formation of the group. If you replaced the bamboo brush spear with a standard spear, you'd lose only a little of the effectiveness of the unit.


If you meet your sword with it yes but if your sword gets tangled in it leave your sword and go up the length the pole with your side arm, if you are a swordsman with a shield block it with the shield and ride up the length of the pole. I think the spears on it would just scratch and in war there is a good chance your hand is covered. Having done kenjutsu and having been hit with a bokken hard enough to make me bleed on my hands and fingers it did not change the technique or mind nor cause any difference in me holding my sword which I would suspect these things scratching would do.


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## oaktree (Nov 28, 2016)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> According to the study, since the "bamboo brush spear" can cover more area in front of you than the normal spear can, it will make you feel safer and give you more "courage". More courage means a lot in battle field.


So does drinking alcohol and killing a few guys.


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## JowGaWolf (Nov 28, 2016)

oaktree said:


> So does drinking alcohol and killing a few guys.


That and strong numbers and a sense of duty.  Hanging out on the street with 5 tough guys feels saver than hanging out on the street with 5 guys who may run the moment they feel threaten. Iraqi soldiers who fled vs Iraqi soldiers who stood their ground when teamed up with US and other troops.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Nov 28, 2016)

More information on Yuan Yang Zhen (鴛鴦陣).

Mi Zhan (秘戰) — the original Yuan Yang Zhen (鴛鴦陣)         |          Great Ming Military


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## Flying Crane (Nov 28, 2016)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> By using this small group of 11 soldiers,
> 
> snip
> 
> ...


My opinion is that I don't know anything about this weapon, nor historical Chinese military strategy.  But, those are some pretty tall numbers to extrapolate, that 1000 to 22 loss comparisons, and I don't buy it.  It is ridiculous on its face, especially when you consider the countless factors that could sway the battle one way or the other.

It's Nonsense.


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## Gerry Seymour (Nov 28, 2016)

Flying Crane said:


> My opinion is that I don't know anything about this weapon, nor historical Chinese military strategy.  But, those are some pretty tall numbers to extrapolate, that 1000 to 22 loss comparisons, and I don't buy it.  It is ridiculous on its face, especially when you consider the countless factors that could sway the battle one way or the other.
> 
> It's Nonsense.


That was ridiculous enough I didn't even comment on it. If that had been true, they could have taken on enormous armies with a couple thousand men. Perhaps in a battle or two those were the numbers, but even then that would require crappy opposition or some sort of well-laid ambush.


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