# Fitness requirements for belt testing?



## Carol (May 22, 2006)

Recently I left class absolutely exhausted.  I was talking with my instructor for a few minutes and he said "Remember, I'm buildind you up for your belt test."

What he meant by that was that our classes were getting increasingly intense, to ensure that everyone was ready for the fitness requirements for belt testing next month.

HOw many schools have fitness requirements at all belt levels...and what are your thoughts on this?

Personally...it works for me, and nearly everyone in my school is in pretty good shape...including me, which has suprised and delighted me because I certainly didn't begin training that way


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## Ross (May 22, 2006)

Carol Kaur said:
			
		

> Recently I left class absolutely exhausted. I was talking with my instructor for a few minutes and he said "Remember, I'm buildind you up for your belt test."
> 
> What he meant by that was that our classes were getting increasingly intense, to ensure that everyone was ready for the fitness requirements for belt testing next month.
> 
> ...


 
This is an interesting point Carol.

Personally I always like to put my students through a good warm up that works on buildin up their strength, flexibility and natural range of movement. 

With each belt level they need to be pushing themselves aswell, as my time cannot be spent just doing exercise with them while neglecting the information that I need to teach them.

I know that a friend of mine who does TKD, her belt gradings require them to do x number of press ups. Which seems a little odd to me. Anyway, that's beside the point.

When I was in training for some of my grades (ie brown belt) I put in a lot of extra training to help with the sparring side of the test. 6 opponents for two minutes each, all black belt and above with the highest grade last. 

Just my experiences really........


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## MJS (May 22, 2006)

Carol Kaur said:
			
		

> Recently I left class absolutely exhausted. I was talking with my instructor for a few minutes and he said "Remember, I'm buildind you up for your belt test."
> 
> What he meant by that was that our classes were getting increasingly intense, to ensure that everyone was ready for the fitness requirements for belt testing next month.
> 
> ...


 
I think that its good for schools to have their fitness requirements go up with each belt level.  A Black Belt test is probably the most physically demanding of all tests, so its good for the student to start getting themselves used to harder levels of progression.  

Of course, doing some extra pushups, situps, etc. while training at home is always a big plus!:ultracool 

Mike


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## Doc (May 22, 2006)

Carol Kaur said:
			
		

> Recently I left class absolutely exhausted.  I was talking with my instructor for a few minutes and he said "Remember, I'm buildind you up for your belt test."
> 
> What he meant by that was that our classes were getting increasingly intense, to ensure that everyone was ready for the fitness requirements for belt testing next month.
> 
> ...


I don't have fitness requirements, and think if that's what people want they should do aerobics. On the other hand our clases are physically demanding in themselves, and extra attention to fitness for a test or otherwise is unnecessary. We have too much to do to waste time doing 'exercises' unrelated to class curriculum.


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## Shortay (May 22, 2006)

Ross said:
			
		

> Personally I always like to put my students through a good warm up that works on buildin up their strength, flexibility and natural range of movement.


 
Oh so that's what you were doing....

I thought it was some sort of cruel and unusual punishment!!! :lol: 

xxxx


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## Kenpodoc (May 22, 2006)

No Fitness tests but all of my advanced belt tests have left me dripping with sweat and exhausted when were done.

Jeff


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## Phadrus00 (May 22, 2006)

Carol,

I have seen many different approaches to the physical requirements in different schools I have attended and must admit that as an instructor I have had different approaches to this issue.  It's a balance between spending time doing conidtioning work and working on technique. Ideally everyone would do a lot of conditioning outside of class and we could use all the time to simply work on technique and skill but that is unrealistic.

In the school I attend and teach at now Physical Fitness is a core tenet and as part of our regular class structure we do 10-15 mins of conditioning.  In order to keep it from being boring though we try and integrate it into skill oriented drills.  So instead of doing lunges for 5 mins, we do stick anges with deep stepping.  Instead of jumping jacks we do jumping Arcos, etc.  

During our lower belt tests we really don't have a physical component but we sure do for black-belt.  The very first part of the test...actually it really is before the test begins, is doing 100 pushups.  You have one 10 second break but otherwise it has to be continuous.  If you can't do it you can't take the test.  Each student wanting to test goes up in front of the testing instructors one at a time and bangs them out.  If you can't get through it you are asked to leave the testing and can try again at the next one.  Here's the kicker..  THAT's not the really hard part of the test.. *smile*

Part of it is to ensure that you have really been giving it your best effort in training.  Part of it is make sure that you can wear the belt and represent the school well.  The largest part though is teaching you about tenacity and the willingness to go beyond yourself.  the test is designed to exhaust you and then ask you to perform a lot of intricate skills in that state.  Your body is going to want you to stop, but your heart is going to pull you through it.  It's a pretty good analogy for what it will be like if you are ever put in a desperate situation and it's an expereince you will be able to look back on and draw strength from.  It's not about being cruel or brutal, it's about helping the student find their inner strength.

Rob


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## stickarts (May 22, 2006)

We do progressively add push ups and sit ups to each level of advancement. I don't think its a coincidence that the best fighters I have faced were also in the best condition.
Most of the clients that come to us list improving fitness as a reason for joining our school.
Learning proper technique is essential, however, if you lack strength, speed and stamina, then I don't believe that you will reach your maximum effectiveness or potential as a martial artist.
I just had a sparring match this past weekend and the guys hands were quick and he was a tough fighter....for about 25 seconds, afterwhich he ran out of steam! I was then able to land strikes almost at will because of his fatigue!
I don't think every student needs to be turned into a marathon runner, however, we do add fitness training into our program.


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## mantis (May 22, 2006)

Carol Kaur said:
			
		

> Recently I left class absolutely exhausted. I was talking with my instructor for a few minutes and he said "Remember, I'm buildind you up for your belt test."
> 
> What he meant by that was that our classes were getting increasingly intense, to ensure that everyone was ready for the fitness requirements for belt testing next month.
> 
> ...


i dont think it's about fitness as much as it's about endurance.  
Endurance is very important and I think it should be a part of black belt testing.  I was told my school makes the students completely exhausted from running, working out, and fighting before they do the test on the day of your black belt test. So when you get to testing you are already exhausted


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## HKphooey (May 22, 2006)

Doc said:
			
		

> I don't have fitness requirements, and think if that's what people want they should do aerobics. On the other hand our clases are physically demanding in themselves, and extra attention to fitness for a test or otherwise is unnecessary. We have too much to do to waste time doing 'exercises' unrelated to class curriculum.


 
I think that works well for sublevel 4 kenpo prationers.  One is there for technical training, not a "excerise" workout.  I would assume most of them know that before starting your classes.  But for many others, the martial arts are not just about the self-defense applications.  It is about self-betterment, self-discipline, and a healthy lifestyle.  Self-defense techniques work well if we are able to take out the attacker right away.  But if it goes to a brawl or gets to a point where one is running for their life (sometimes the better option), they need the stamina to do so. And to those, it is not a "waste of time".  

One of the Kenpo Creeds...
_I intend to develop myself in a positive manner and to avoid anything that would reduce my mental growth or my physical health._
If I am going to make a student recite and live by this creed, it is my job as an instructor, to teach them how to better their physical health.

When I earned my first degree, I had to pass a set of fitness tests.  I had to be able to run a 2-minute mile in less than 12 minutes, 60 situp in less than 2 minutes, 60 pushups in less than 2 minutes and 5 chinups.  I did not have too much troublw with these, but others really had to work at it (along with their regular material training). At the end of the day, it should true dedication and the spirit of a black belt - NEVER QUIT.  Many did not know they would pass anyway (as long as they should improvement from the pre-test to the actual test and they did not give up).  I know from LEO/Firefighter friends, their fitness test was not even that hard.  

I learned just as much from that experience as I did some of my forms.

Just my 2 cents.  And by all means, I would love to spend all class taking about a technique, but the students I teach are looking for more.


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## IWishToLearn (May 22, 2006)

Maybe it's just me...but I've always felt that the responsibility of a Martial Arts Instructor was to teach you methods to use to Defend Yourself from attack. Not run you around for cardiovascular exercise. I told my students if they wanted to be in better shape - go to the gym. My time is going to be spent teaching them self defense. When their gradings come around I care much more about whether or not they can apply their material and understand it well enough to explain it themselves... if you have a knife sticking outta your spleen...jogging don't come in to play, now does it.


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## HKphooey (May 22, 2006)

IWishToLearn said:
			
		

> Maybe it's just me...but I've always felt that the responsibility of a Martial Arts Instructor was to teach you methods to use to Defend Yourself from attack. Not run you around for cardiovascular exercise. I told my students if they wanted to be in better shape - go to the gym. My time is going to be spent teaching them self defense. When their gradings come around I care much more about whether or not they can apply their material and understand it well enough to explain it themselves... if you have a knife sticking outta your spleen...jogging don't come in to play, now does it.


 
I think if your students know that when joining the school (and you consider your school, only a self-defense school), that philospophy is perfect.  

Keep in mind... not every individual will be able to overcome an attacker, and the time will come to run, they better be able to run.  it may save their life.


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## fireman00 (May 22, 2006)

I practice TKD and at the first school I went to there was no real fitness test. 

At my present school we work out every session on pushups/ situps/ aerobic training to ensure that we're ready for the test.  The test consists of: 1.)  2 mile run, 2.) 50 pushups(with 1 break if you need it) , 3.) 100 situps (with 1 break if you need it), 4.) 2 minutes steady of hand techniques on bag, 5.) 2 minutes of foot techniques on bag, 6.) 2 minutes mixed techniques on bag, 7.) 2-2 minute rounds of 1 on 1 sparring then 1-2 minute round of 2 on 1 sparring, and 8.) jump rope for 3 minutes.   

Then we're ready for the test 8 ITF forms (plus additional forms for each level over plain BB, 8 WTF forms (plus additional forms for each level over plain BB, board breaking, then its on to one step defenses then bo, nunchukas and sword. 


Makes for a great day


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## Old Fat Kenpoka (May 22, 2006)

It is not only about physical fitness, it is about efficiency.

One of the keys to advancement in any physical endeavor is learning how to maximize your effort and eliminate wasted effort.   

Despite a life-long weight problem, I was able to match the endurance of more fit people at my belt-level by learning how to move efficiently.   This efficiency made my Kenpo more effective and helped me compensate for physical and lifestyle limitations that prevented me from becoming a top athlete.

By forcing me to perform at the level of younger and fitter athletes, my instructors pushed me to overcome my personal obstacles and helped me become the best Kenpoist I could be.


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## HKphooey (May 22, 2006)

Old Fat Kenpoka said:
			
		

> It is not only about physical fitness, it is about efficiency.
> 
> One of the keys to advancement in any physical endeavor is learning how to maximize your effort and eliminate wasted effort.
> 
> ...


 
Totally agree with that statement. I think it is about finding a happy medium.  And your instructor was wise to see you had an obstacle to overcome and found ways to make you stonger in other areas.  I have seen some bigger guys really move!


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## Phadrus00 (May 22, 2006)

IWishToLearn said:
			
		

> Maybe it's just me...but I've always felt that the responsibility of a Martial Arts Instructor was to teach you methods to use to Defend Yourself from attack. Not run you around for cardiovascular exercise. I told my students if they wanted to be in better shape - go to the gym. My time is going to be spent teaching them self defense. When their gradings come around I care much more about whether or not they can apply their material and understand it well enough to explain it themselves... if you have a knife sticking outta your spleen...jogging don't come in to play, now does it.


 
It's true that a Martial Arts Class is not an aerobics class and we constantly reinforce that our students NEED to get additional exercise outside of class to improve their overall stamina and strength.  But as instructors we are trying to prepare our students for a real world situation and conditioning is part of that.  They may have all the knowledge of a shaolin master but if they run out of steam in 15 seconds they are as helpless as a baby.   I think that conditioning can manifest itself in ways that do not distract from training skills.  Kicking practice is an excellent opportunity to do aerobic conditioning while reinforcing skills as well.  Sparring is also a great avenue and allows you to identify students that are clearly wrestling with the aerobic aspects of their trainig and encourage them to add more of that to their fitness routine.  

I think as the Martial Arts become more and more mainstream we will end up moving away from the traditional "Sensei as provider of martial knowledge" to a broader view as "Fitness Coach/Martial Arts Instructor/Nutritionist".  We will be asked to be a resource in helping people find balance in their lives across a wide range of issues.

Rob


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## Old Fat Kenpoka (May 22, 2006)

Phadrus00 said:
			
		

> It's true that a Martial Arts Class is not an aerobics class and we constantly reinforce that our students NEED to get additional exercise outside of class to improve their overall stamina and strength. But as instructors we are trying to prepare our students for a real world situation and conditioning is part of that. They may have all the knowledge of a shaolin master but if they run out of steam in 15 seconds they are as helpless as baby. I think that conditioning can manifest itself in ways that do not distract from training skills. Kicking practice is an excellent opportunity to do aerobic conditioning while reinforcing skills as well. Sparring is also a great avenue and allows you to identify students that are clearly wrestling with the aerobic aspects of their trainig and encourage them to add more of that to their fitness routine.
> 
> I think as the Martial Arts become more and more mainstream we will end up moving away from the traditional "Sensei as provider of martial knowledge" to a broader view as "Fitness Coach/Martial Arts Instructor/Nutritionist". We will be asked to be a resource in helping people find balance in their lives across a wide range of issues.
> 
> Rob


 
Rob:  You just said fitness is a requirement for effective self-defense.  If you agree with your own statement, it naturally follows that conditioning needs to be both part of the regular training/curiculum and a requirement for advancement.


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## Phadrus00 (May 22, 2006)

Old Fat Kenpoka said:
			
		

> Rob: You just said fitness is a requirement for effective self-defense. If you agree with your own statement, it naturally follows that conditioning needs to be both part of the regular training/curiculum and a requirement for advancement.


 
Yup and Yup...  Did I somehow contradict myself without realizing it?  

I was making the point that conditioning is essential to training AND it can be worked into the curriculum without having to detract from skill reinforcement so it's not an either/or scenario.  And I also agree that fitness is a part of advancement although we don't explicitly test for it in our lower belt rankings we do in our Black Belt test.  

Sorry if I was unclear.

Rob


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## JenniM (May 22, 2006)

Ross said:
			
		

> Personally I always like to put my students through a good warm up that works on buildin up their strength, flexibility and natural range of movement.



Hmmmm......you have learnt much young Rosser!!!!     This is a subject close to my heart - I see this from two sides, as I obtained a qualification in physical fitness a few years ago and have also trained in the martial arts for some years now.   I also have very personal experience of having to "adapt" my training due to medical conditions, one of which I can categorically state was caused from many years of doing "contra" warm-up exercises!!!   In our organistion the ages of our students range from 5 to 65 and they come from all walks of life and therefore there are many variables to take into consideration when teaching any form of physical activity, such as age, current fitness/activity levels, medical history i.e whether they have existing injuries, musculo-skeletal problems such as joint or back pain, asthma, heart disease, diabetes etc etc.   I personally feel that as Instructors (whatever you are teaching) if it is physical in any way and involves you teaching members of the public you have a responsibility to have some knowledge of anatomy, physiology and the effects of exercise on the body systems and yes it is possible to give consideration to this AND teach effectively - this is certainly what we try to do and to this end all of our Instructors (including Ross  ) have a good basic knowledge in fitness training and this just enhances what they do and how they structure their classes and we certainly manage to do pretty good Kenpo as well lol!!!.  Muscle strain, tears, soreness, joint stresses, ligamentous sprains, inflammation of tendons, etc etc can all be caused by inappropriate exercise (and this doesn't have to be aerobic classes - it can happen anywhere),  and can then leave your student with pain which adversely affects their daily activities, relaxation and sleep - not what they would want I would guess from attending a Martial Arts class - but have the come away not only having learnt how to defend themselves but also with improved physical fitness.     Then of course there are our "junior students" now that's a totally different kettle of fish with even more considerations, bones are growing and reshaping during the processes of growth, hormones are kicking in, there are "sensitive ages" for development of movement abilities which are different in both boys and girls - again as an Instructor teaching children, this has to be a consideration.  I'm not saying we all have to be qualified Physical Fitness Instructors and I am not detracting at all from teaching a Martial Art, having taught for many years myself, but I feel we owe it to our students to equip ourselves with the right tools for the job.  Our senior gradings are fairly tough and just when you thought you were fit, in kick the nerves and the good on adrenaline dump - ah well we do our best!!!    Great thread Carol!:asian:


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## Doc (May 22, 2006)

Shortay said:
			
		

> Oh so that's what you were doing....
> 
> I thought it was some sort of cruel and unusual punishment!!! :lol:
> 
> xxxx


Well I only may be able to fuss at my daughter, but I can hit her boyfriend. 

See U soon. 

XXXXXX


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## terryl965 (May 22, 2006)

We always have a physical fitness part to our test, it is there to push the student mentally more than physically and in SD stituation mental is an absolute for anybody.
Terry


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## Carol (May 22, 2006)

HKphooey said:
			
		

> One of the Kenpo Creeds...
> _I intend to develop myself in a positive manner and to avoid anything that would reduce my mental growth or my physical health._
> If I am going to make a student recite and live by this creed, it is my job as an instructor, to teach them how to better their physical health.


 
HKPhooey, that is something incredibly near and dear to me.  We too recite the same every day in our class.  Saying that creed while I feel myself grow stronger and think more clearly has reinforced my desire to actually LIVE by the credo and not just have it be something that I say because my instructor tells me to.  

End result has been me getting rid of some not-great habits that I have not gotten around to breaking until recently...and somehow finding the discipline to keep them broken.  There's more than one way to do this...but I credit my instructors for showing me a way that actually worked. 

You must have quite an impact on your students lives sir.  :asian:


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## HKphooey (May 22, 2006)

Carol, 

Thank you for you words.  Those  creeds are what got me to stop smoking.  I realized one day that younger students (and older) looked to me for direction.  From that day on, I made it my goal to give the school, my instructor and fellow students my complete dedication to their success.

It is great ot hear success stories like yours.  It helps many of us remember the martial arts are much more than self-defense.


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## Shortay (May 23, 2006)

Doc said:
			
		

> Well I only may be able to fuss at my daughter, but I can hit her boyfriend.
> 
> See U soon.
> 
> XXXXXX


 
See you very soon....... for plenty of hugs, and no doubt, teasing about my "child's size" uniform.

Try not to hit him too much - he's actually pretty handy himself.....

he has a GREAT instructor.

xxxx


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## stickarts (May 23, 2006)

Carol Kaur said:
			
		

> HKPhooey, that is something incredibly near and dear to me. We too recite the same every day in our class. Saying that creed while I feel myself grow stronger and think more clearly has reinforced my desire to actually LIVE by the credo and not just have it be something that I say because my instructor tells me to.
> 
> End result has been me getting rid of some not-great habits that I have not gotten around to breaking until recently...and somehow finding the discipline to keep them broken. There's more than one way to do this...but I credit my instructors for showing me a way that actually worked.
> 
> You must have quite an impact on your students lives sir. :asian:


 
HKphooey gives every class 100% and sets a great example for his class. The physical fitness aspect goes hand in hand with the rest of our training and everyone leaves class feeling great! Tired, but great!


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