# Question for experienced practitioners



## enthusiast (Apr 19, 2013)

When we started training in our Dojo, our Sensei light sparred with us because he wants to know how he should adjust our punching, kicking,blocking etc because he knows that me and my companion have some experience in MMA, Muay Thai and Boxing. So we were sparring and of course I am kinda bouncing because I am quite used to it, then after the sparring, he told me to remove my habit of bouncing but failed to tell me why. I just thought of it now so I am asking you people the logic of it. I am excited for the answers and can't wait for tomorrow before I ask my teacher.


----------



## rframe (Apr 19, 2013)

I've had sensei who dont like bouncing because they feel its easier to read a bouncer, as an attack can normally only be launched during ground contact, they say bouncing encourages telegraphing because someone must transition from the bounce to setup the attack.

I've also had instructors who recommend a light bounce to encourage foot work and remaining light on the balls of your feet and actually say it results in less telegraphing because there's constant movement.

I've fought both, and been beaten by both.

Also, if you watch video of world class karate kumite (search WKF on youtube), they almost all bounce and they are incredibly fast practitioners.

I boil it all down to this... it's a matter of personal preference, whatever makes you fast and lowers your telegraphing levels is the right thing to do.

I vary my stance, sometimes I'm calm and stationary, sometimes I'll have a light bounce... I find both work.


----------



## Touch Of Death (Apr 19, 2013)

I say just waltz in there and beat the guy up, bouncing is kind of sporty. LOL 
Sean


----------



## DennisBreene (Apr 19, 2013)

It may be an issue of style overriding pragmatism. And I agree with the concept of doing what is most effective for you. But now is also the time to experiment with techniques and be open to the possibility that his more stationary approach leads to combinations and setups that you haven't learned yet but may find useful. When you gain enough experience you may find a modification of your footwork  that incorporates both elements yields the greatest variety of techniques and flexibility.


----------



## Cyriacus (Apr 19, 2013)

As long as youre there learning his stuff, learn to play his game. If you dont want to play his game, leave, and go find a different one.


----------



## seasoned (Apr 19, 2013)

Stance, hand guard position and a lot of foot movement (bouncing) denotes a sport flavor in my opinion. Outside of a dojo and absent of a sport mentality of trading shots, any confrontation is very direct and extremely violent in nature. The thought process is that of survival with a sense of not wasting any movement, but to make every action count. 
In the long run, to each their own, and people will do what they are taught. IMHO............


----------



## enthusiast (Apr 20, 2013)

Just got back from training. He told me that it was all about predictability(just like what rframe said), a fellow martial artist will understand that I need to momentarily stop bouncing in order to give a kick, he also told me that if I'm in a tournament with rounds and I eventually stop bouncing, it would mean that I am out of gas and my opponent can grab this opportunity to throw more offense. Again, thanks for the insights. I will definitely try to see what is more fit for me.


----------



## chinto (Apr 20, 2013)

for Self Defense I would NOT bounce. for several reasons. one: it looks like you want the fight. ( that is bad for legal reasons) two: if he reads timing well he can just go as you lift off. and some of them are that fast! and three: when it is for keeps its over in seconds. the man you never want to fight moves in flat footed and is there to kill or be killed. he is there to maim, cripple or kill to survive! No wasted movement or time!   please remember that real fights are very very violent and very very short! the other thing to remember is when men fight it is not a school yard fight or a sparring match. people go to the morgue as often as not! ask any cop how many drunken men with out training are in prison for manslaughter  from a drunken bar brawl.


----------



## K-man (Apr 20, 2013)

I don't bounce around for all the reasons given above. Even when I was engaged in competition sparring I didn't bounce. Let the other guy wear himself out. I'm too old to waste energy and by the same measure I was too old to bounce 30 years ago. Now in a self defence situation it is unlikely I will be the one moving in. I am more likely to be waiting for an attacker to come at me. That makes it very hard for an attacker to read the situation. I will just wait for the opportunity that is usually there when someone rushes in.   :asian:


----------



## Kong Soo Do (Apr 21, 2013)

chinto said:


> for Self Defense I would NOT bounce. for several reasons. one: it looks like you want the fight. ( that is bad for legal reasons) two: if he reads timing well he can just go as you lift off. and some of them are that fast! and three: when it is for keeps its over in seconds. the man you never want to fight moves in flat footed and is there to kill or be killed. he is there to maim, cripple or kill to survive! No wasted movement or time!   please remember that real fights are very very violent and very very short! the other thing to remember is when men fight it is not a school yard fight or a sparring match. people go to the morgue as often as not! ask any cop how many drunken men with out training are in prison for manslaughter  from a drunken bar brawl.



Big +1

If I may expound a little...



> one: it looks like you want the fight.



If this is a SD situation, you are either the aggressor or the defender i.e. you're either a good guy or a bad guy.  Which do you want to be?  Which do you want to LOOK like?  Bouncing wastes energy, telegraphs, delays moving in on someone for follow up movements, and generally looks like mutual combat and not you defending yourself.  Video is EVERYWHERE, and even if you're not on video you should act like you are.  



> three: when it is for keeps its over in seconds. the man you never want  to fight moves in flat footed and is there to kill or be killed. he is  there to maim, cripple or kill to survive! No wasted movement or time!    please remember that real fights are very very violent and very very  short! the other thing to remember is when men fight it is not a school  yard fight or a sparring match. people go to the morgue as often as not!  ask any cop how many drunken men with out training are in prison for  manslaughter  from a drunken bar brawl.



The average (real) fight lasts an average of 7 seconds with injury occurring in the first 3 seconds.  You don't have time to screw around.  Floating like a butterfly is dandy in the controlled, artificial environment of a sporting competition (which bears little resemblance to a real fight) but is not advisable in a real SD situation.  In this case, economy of motion reigns supreme.  Do what needs to be done to protect yourself, do it quick and then get the hell out of Dodge.  This isn't a choreographed movie, it's real life and you only get one.


----------



## Cyriacus (Apr 21, 2013)

"_one: it looks like you want the fight."

Just one thing. That could also make someone take you much more seriously, and employ far more severe means to their end as a result._


----------



## spaced (Apr 22, 2013)

Best thing to do is ask you Sensei why he asked you to stop, not us


"Protect Traditional Karate...Strive To Reach The Essence Of Goju Ryu...Never Give Up"


----------



## Touch Of Death (Apr 22, 2013)

spaced said:


> Best thing to do is ask you Sensei why he asked you to stop, not us
> 
> 
> "Protect Traditional Karate...Strive To Reach The Essence Of Goju Ryu...Never Give Up"


And... Your Sensei didn't fail to answer, if you failed to ask.


----------



## enthusiast (Apr 23, 2013)

enthusiast said:


> Just got back from training. He told me that it was all about predictability(just like what rframe said), a fellow martial artist will understand that I need to momentarily stop bouncing in order to give a kick, he also told me that if I'm in a tournament with rounds and I eventually stop bouncing, it would mean that I am out of gas and my opponent can grab this opportunity to throw more offense. Again, thanks for the insights. I will definitely try to see what is more fit for me.





spaced said:


> Best thing to do is ask you Sensei why he asked you to stop, not us
> 
> 
> "Protect Traditional Karate...Strive To Reach The Essence Of Goju Ryu...Never Give Up"




I asked him already.


----------



## Grenadier (Apr 23, 2013)

To bounce or not to bounce?  

If you're bouncing on the balls of your feet, and doing so lightly, then there really shouldn't be any delay in reaction when it comes to throwing that punch or kick, and that it shouldn't telegraph.  

The problem with this, though, is that not everyone can do the ideal kind of bouncing. 

I see no harm in practicing the bounce, though, since it does condition you to be on the balls of your feet, and helps improve endurance.  I also don't see any harm in using a correct bounce, as evidenced by the top WKF fighters.  If you look up matches from George Kotaka, you can see how explosive he is, and that he's anything but predictable.


----------



## chinto (Apr 25, 2013)

Grenadier said:


> To bounce or not to bounce?
> 
> If you're bouncing on the balls of your feet, and doing so lightly, then there really shouldn't be any delay in reaction when it comes to throwing that punch or kick, and that it shouldn't telegraph.
> 
> ...


  he is NOT in a self Defense situation either is he? I think he would not bounce in that situation either.


----------

