# Damsel in Defense?



## shesulsa (Sep 18, 2015)

I was recently invited to a Damsel in Defense party. This is, apparently, like a Pampered Chef party but with pretty little weapons; kubaton, pepper spray, stun guns, whistles and other accoutrements.

Sadly, the party is being rescheduled and I have not yet had the opportunity to view their product in person nor experience the presentation.

Has anyone else here seen this? If so what is your review?


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## Brian R. VanCise (Sep 18, 2015)

Hi Shesulsa, I have not seen or heard of this.  So like you I am curious.

Here is there website: Damsel In Defense - Equip, Empower and Educate


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## RTKDCMB (Sep 19, 2015)

Brian R. VanCise said:


> Hi Shesulsa, I have not seen or heard of this.  So like you I am curious.
> 
> Here is there website: Damsel In Defense - Equip, Empower and Educate


I had a quick look at their website. It looks a bit like the self defense version of Tupperware.

Interesting that both their starter kits have over $340 of value:

Join Our Team - Damsel In Defense

Join Us


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## GiYu - Todd (Sep 24, 2015)

shesulsa said:


> I was recently invited to a Damsel in Defense party. This is, apparently, like a Pampered Chef party but with pretty little weapons; kubaton, pepper spray, stun guns, whistles and other accoutrements.


 I truly hope there is some form of training (preferable ongoing) that goes along with this.  Otherwise, selling people most of these is wishful thinking.
I've had a couple separate occasions where a woman told me she doesn't need any training because she can protect herself with the (spray, stun gun, other magic weapon) she carries in her purse.  My normal response is to ask them to get it out as quick as they can.  Rarely have they found it in less than 7-8 seconds... by which time an attacker, even a slow lazy one, would have seriously harmed them already.
I'm all for people using force multipliers for personal protection, but it has to be immediately available, and they must have at least some level of proficiency with it for it to do any good.


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## lklawson (Sep 24, 2015)

GiYu - Todd said:


> I truly hope there is some form of training (preferable ongoing) that goes along with this.  Otherwise, selling people most of these is wishful thinking.


How many other equipment sales companies do what you're asking?  The answer is "nearly none."

They're in the business of selling "self defense" (ahem) equipment.  Their target customer base is women.  They have no moral obligation to include "training" that you agree with to any greater degree than any other equipment sales outfit just because most of their EQ is pink.

Or, to put it another way, do Tupperware Parties include ongoing cooking courses?  Do Cloud 9 or Pure Romance Parties include ongoing sex courses?  

Peace favor yoru sword,
Kirk


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## GiYu - Todd (Sep 24, 2015)

lklawson said:


> How many other equipment sales companies do what you're asking?  The answer is "nearly none."
> 
> They're in the business of selling "self defense" (ahem) equipment.  Their target customer base is women.  They have no moral obligation to include "training" that you agree with to any greater degree than any other equipment sales outfit just because most of their EQ is pink.
> 
> ...


 I agree.  And it's pretty sad.  The worst part is most customers for these "defense items" won't understand this until it's too late.

Firearms are similar.  I recently read a story of a woman who had a threatening ex, so she bought a gun to carry, and never went to the range to try it out.  A few days later he attacked her, she managed to get off one unsuccessful shot, and then he beat her to death.  The story didn't mention it, but I'd bet money her left thumb was injured from the slide, and she likely prevented the action from cycling for a second shot.  With just an hour of training with a decent instructor at a range, the story may have come out differently. (Although much more training would be better)

As for the Cloud 9 and Pure Romance parties... if they ever add that training, I'm going beg my wife to get involved in those.


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## lklawson (Sep 24, 2015)

GiYu - Todd said:


> I agree.  And it's pretty sad.  The worst part is most customers for these "defense items" won't understand this until it's too late.


Sure.  But my point is that the retailer doesn't really have any moral obligation to provide, or even recommend, that training.  It's incumbent upon the purchaser to ensure they have or attain the proper skills to use it.  It's a little like a car, right?  Does Smedly Chevrolet have a moral obligation to ensure or recommend the people buying cars from them get Drivers Ed.?  And what sort of purchaser goes to Smedly's and thinks that just buying a car makes them competent to drive it?  This isn't a problem with the retailer, but rather an issue endemic with the entire concept of self defense and general laziness in our society.



> Firearms are similar.  I recently read a story of a woman who had a threatening ex, so she bought a gun to carry, and never went to the range to try it out.  A few days later he attacked her, she managed to get off one unsuccessful shot, and then he beat her to death.


While I generally agree here, I will stipulate that, statistically speaking, the fact is that merely displaying the firearm alone, let alone torching off a round, is usually sufficient to deter an assault.  So, (again) statistically speaking, her assumption was more or less right.  She played the odds by not getting training and lost.



> The story didn't mention it, but I'd bet money her left thumb was injured from the slide, and she likely prevented the action from cycling for a second shot.


You think she used the old "thumb-wrap" two-handed grip?  Possible, I guess.  Seems like more people just want to try to one hand it.  If I were speculating, I'd guess she allowed him to get far to close before he assaulted her, then deployed it far too late, most likely in a one-hand grip, and managed to torch off a single round probably while at grappling range.  But I didn't see the story so it's speculation based on how I've seen people react in the past.  Was it in the Dayton area?  My car radio is on the fritz so I only get the Country station instead of the News Talk stations I prefer.



> With just an hour of training with a decent instructor at a range, the story may have come out differently. (Although much more training would be better)


An hour would barely cover the 4 Safety rules, using the sights, and proper grip/stance.  I don't think I could possibly teach that and carry as well as deploy in an hour.  Now, a knife used in SD, on the other hand; I think I could get much further in a hour.



> As for the Cloud 9 and Pure Romance parties... if they ever add that training, I'm going beg my wife to get involved in those.




Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## Dirty Dog (Sep 24, 2015)

lklawson said:


> Sure.  But my point is that the retailer doesn't really have any moral obligation to provide, or even recommend, that training.  It's incumbent upon the purchaser to ensure they have or attain the proper skills to use it.  It's a little like a car, right?  Does Smedly Chevrolet have a moral obligation to ensure or recommend the people buying cars from them get Drivers Ed.?  And what sort of purchaser goes to Smedly's and thinks that just buying a car makes them competent to drive it?  This isn't a problem with the retailer, but rather an issue endemic with the entire concept of self defense and general laziness in our society.



Ever read the owners manual? There are definitely places in there with the CYA legal boilerplate. Except in Ford manuals; they're always broke, so there's no risk of injury while driving...



lklawson said:


> While I generally agree here, I will stipulate that, statistically speaking, the fact is that merely displaying the firearm alone, let alone torching off a round, is usually sufficient to deter an assault.  So, (again) statistically speaking, her assumption was more or less right.  She played the odds by not getting training and lost.



You're absolutely correct about the odds. On the other hand, maybe she'd scheduled training session(s) but hadn't attended yet. These sort of apocryphal stories never really tell you much, and are often urban myths or conglomerations of multiple stories.



lklawson said:


> You think she used the old "thumb-wrap" two-handed grip?  Possible, I guess.  Seems like more people just want to try to one hand it.  If I were speculating, I'd guess she allowed him to get far to close before he assaulted her, then deployed it far too late, most likely in a one-hand grip, and managed to torch off a single round probably while at grappling range.  But I didn't see the story so it's speculation based on how I've seen people react in the past.  Was it in the Dayton area?  My car radio is on the fritz so I only get the Country station instead of the News Talk stations I prefer.



Wow, that must suck.



lklawson said:


> An hour would barely cover the 4 Safety rules, using the sights, and proper grip/stance.  I don't think I could possibly teach that and carry as well as deploy in an hour.  Now, a knife used in SD, on the other hand; I think I could get much further in a hour.



The CCW class here in Colorado is 4-5 hours, and covers the 4-rules and the legalities of carrying a weapon. The NRA basic basic handgun class is another 4 hours. And that's what I'd consider minimum before worrying about specific defensive drills.


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## GiYu - Todd (Sep 24, 2015)

lklawson said:


> Now, a knife used in SD, on the other hand; I think I could get much further in a hour.


The knife would likely be better, and easier to teach.  I seem to recall the event occuring in Ohio, but don't know where. 

 I concur with all your other points.


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## lklawson (Sep 24, 2015)

Dirty Dog said:


> Ever read the owners manual?


Just for Maintenance requirements.



> You're absolutely correct about the odds. On the other hand, maybe she'd scheduled training session(s) but hadn't attended yet. These sort of apocryphal stories never really tell you much, and are often urban myths or conglomerations of multiple stories.


<nods>



> Wow, that must suck.


You have no idea.  On the other hand, I accidentally found a Country song that I enjoy: 







Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## jks9199 (Sep 24, 2015)

Couple things going on... A separate thread might be in order for fuller exploration of some of them...

First, the Tupperware/MaryKay model of selling of self defense products...  Well, like the other products, the real question is whether or not the wares are any good, and are they priced in alignment with their quality?  Then, since these generally rely on recruiting more sellers down your line... is it something to get involved with?  (Would it help Shesulsa's classes if she could sell this stuff?)

Then... there's the whole talisman thinking issue.  "I'm safe because I have this..." whether or not they can use it, either in the practical sense (can they access and deploy it), physical skills sense (do they know how to use it when they get it out?), or emotional (can they actually pull the trigger?)...  It's not uncommon for people to acquire some sort of self defense tool, and it becomes their talisman of safety.  They have it, so they're safe.  So they do stupid things, and find themselves in trouble...


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## RTKDCMB (Sep 25, 2015)

lklawson said:


> Do Cloud 9 or Pure Romance Parties include ongoing sex courses?


That would certainly make them more popular.


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## GiYu - Todd (Sep 25, 2015)

jks9199 said:


> First, the Tupperware/MaryKay model of selling of self defense products... Well, like the other products, the real question is whether or not the wares are any good, and are they priced in alignment with their quality? Then, since these generally rely on recruiting more sellers down your line... is it something to get involved with? (Would it help Shesulsa's classes if she could sell this stuff?)


 Actually, this sounds like a good idea if someone were to do this with quality weapons (and sell mostly to trained target audiences).  I could host a party at my house and invite people from various dojos in the area to come buy weapons.  As the host, I get a free katana or something.  If anyone hears of such a thing... sign me up.


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## lklawson (Sep 28, 2015)

GiYu - Todd said:


> Actually, this sounds like a good idea if someone were to do this with quality weapons (and sell mostly to trained target audiences).  I could host a party at my house and invite people from various dojos in the area to come buy weapons.  As the host, I get a free katana or something.  If anyone hears of such a thing... sign me up.


To a *trained* target audience?  No offense, but I doubt it.  We mostly already have what we want, having bought it item by item along the way.  What other items we want we generally have very specific requirements in mind, often down to the brand and model.  When we don't have very specific requirements, we've probably already bought, often online.

I don't think that Masterline In Home/Dojo Parties will work very well.  Sorry, maybe I'm just a Debbie Downer.  

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## Tony Dismukes (Sep 28, 2015)

lklawson said:


> To a *trained* target audience?  No offense, but I doubt it.  We mostly already have what we want, having bought it item by item along the way.  What other items we want we generally have very specific requirements in mind, often down to the brand and model.  When we don't have very specific requirements, we've probably already bought, often online.
> 
> I don't think that Masterline In Home/Dojo Parties will work very well.  Sorry, maybe I'm just a Debbie Downer.
> 
> ...


That's why your parties have to offer exclusive weapons that you can't get just anywhere. I'm thinking items like brass knuckles with a built in flamethrower, exploding shuriken, light sabers with unique colors, phased plasma rifles in the 40 watt range, that sort of thing.


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