# Jhoon Rhee Tae Kwon Do



## jedtx88 (Dec 11, 2011)

I started studying the modern Jhoon Rhee system a few years ago, however when my instructor moved away I was forced to learn else where. After much debate I settled on another school that teaches Jhoon Rhee Tae Kwon Do.  Only it is an entirely different system! Don't get me wrong I love the traditional stances(not at first) and techniques and my instructor is an immpressive gentleman from the "blood n' guts" era of Texas Karate.  Still I have been wondering why Mr Rhee changed the system in the first place. I have been trying to research it for a while, but I am getting nowhere. Any information would be appreciated. Thankyou​


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## Cyriacus (Dec 11, 2011)

Having looked at Videos of Jhoon Rhee TKD, I have to ask;
Is it possible that Jhoon Rhee didnt change it, and that it was just being taught differently between Dojangs? Because it seems possible from what Ive seen.


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## Earl Weiss (Dec 11, 2011)

jedtx88 said:


> I started studying the modern Jhoon Rhee system a few years ago, however when my instructor moved away I was forced to learn else where. After much debate I settled on another school that teaches Jhoon Rhee Tae Kwon Do. Only it is an entirely different system!​



Jhoon Rhee was a Chung Do Kwan product, initialy using that system. The story is well known about how General Choi visited him (as well as many others0 and convinced him to learn the unified system using the TKD moniker, the only widespread one at the time whcih was the Chang Hon system. (It helped that General Choi had the Korean Government's backing) This continued for some time. As with many he taught the chang Hon system flavored with his original habits. (in his case CDK)  When General Choi became personna non grata with the Korean government, that government came up with a new system of TKD going thru machinations until the current KKW system was founded.  Jhoon Rhee as with many others for a variety of reason's (See "A Killing Art")  left General Choi. Instead of adopting the new KKW system I guess he felt well established enough to create the Jhoon Rhee system.  So, you may be doing any one of 3 things Chung Do Kwan, Chang Hon, ro the last system with variations as which may be dependant on whomever was learning and teaching and their prior habits.


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## ralphmcpherson (Dec 11, 2011)

Rhee tkd is very big over here in australia. Is it the same "Rhee" tkd over here as it is over there, or is there another Rhee?


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## Cyriacus (Dec 11, 2011)

ralphmcpherson said:


> Rhee tkd is very big over here in australia. Is it the same "Rhee" tkd over here as it is over there, or is there another Rhee?


Im not sure if Jhoon Rhee TKD is in Australia, but personally I Train under Chong Chul Rhee TKD, which is indeed pretty big in this Country.


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## ralphmcpherson (Dec 11, 2011)

Cyriacus said:


> Im not sure if Jhoon Rhee TKD is in Australia, but personally I Train under Chong Chul Rhee TKD, which is indeed pretty big in this Country.



Yeah thats the one I think. We have 'Rhee tkd' clubs all over the place around us. Actually I was at work the other day and found out one of the guys I see around a bit is a Rhee tkd instructor. Is Chong Chul Rhee any relation to Jhoon Rhee? What forms do you do? Are you in QLD?


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## Cyriacus (Dec 11, 2011)

ralphmcpherson said:


> Yeah thats the one I think. We have 'Rhee tkd' clubs all over the place around us. Actually I was at work the other day and found out one of the guys I see around a bit is a Rhee tkd instructor. Is Chong Chul Rhee any relation to Jhoon Rhee? What forms do you do? Are you in QLD?


No. Its pure coincidence their Surnames are the same.

Im fairly sure Patterns are Hyeong. And We call them Patterns instead of Forms; I can only assume and guess at why.
Yes, Im in QLD.


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## ralphmcpherson (Dec 11, 2011)

Cyriacus said:


> No. Its pure coincidence their Surnames are the same.
> 
> Im fairly sure Patterns are Hyeong. And We call them Patterns instead of Forms; I can only assume and guess at why.
> Yes, Im in QLD.


what sort of sparring do you guys do? sorry for all the questions, the guy from work invited me along to train with him and his class. He gave me his card and I have contemplated going along sometime and Im just curious as to how they train and what they do. You never know, if you're in QLD, I might bump into you there


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## dancingalone (Dec 12, 2011)

jedtx88 said:


> I started studying the modern Jhoon Rhee system a few years ago, however when my instructor moved away I was forced to learn else where. After much debate I settled on another school that teaches Jhoon Rhee Tae Kwon Do.  Only it is an entirely different system! Don't get me wrong I love the traditional stances(not at first) and techniques and my instructor is an immpressive gentleman from the "blood n' guts" era of Texas Karate.  Still I have been wondering why Mr Rhee changed the system in the first place. I have been trying to research it for a while, but I am getting nowhere. Any information would be appreciated. Thankyou​



My first martial art was Jhoon Rhee tae kwondo, fondly nicknamed 'Texkwondo', and I still have a lot of respect for the style.  The version I learned actually used a high fighting stance for mobility in sparring, though we still employed the lower 'traditional' stances in the forms (Chon-ji, Dan-Gun, etc.).  As I look at the more recent Jhoon Rhee material on Youtube, it doesn't look too different from what we practiced, aside from the martial ballet forms Mr. Rhee invented, and even then if we took out the music, the physical movement itself is very close to the JR basics I am familiar with.

So I'm not so sure Mr. Rhee changed all that much  in a real sense after he left Texas for Maryland.  In what way do you feel that he changed his system greatly?


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## oftheherd1 (Dec 12, 2011)

dancingalone said:


> My first martial art was Jhoon Rhee tae kwondo, fondly nicknamed 'Texkwondo', and I still have a lot of respect for the style. The version I learned actually used a high fighting stance for mobility in sparring, though we still employed the lower 'traditional' stances in the forms (Chon-ji, Dan-Gun, etc.). As I look at the more recent Jhoon Rhee material on Youtube, it doesn't look too different from what we practiced, aside from the martial ballet forms Mr. Rhee invented, and even then if we took out the music, the physical movement itself is very close to the JR basics I am familiar with.
> 
> So I'm not so sure Mr. Rhee changed all that much in a real sense after he left Texas for Maryland. In what way do you feel that he changed his system greatly?



He did not change at first AFIK.  When he first came to this area, his only studio was at the 3rd floor of a building at Conecticutt and S Streets, in Washington, DC.  We did forms, blocked, punched and kicked.  We learned control as part of our training and for sparing, as there was no full contact.  It seemed pretty traditional, but honestly I have nothing to compare it too.  That time was the only time I studied TKD.  I heard some mention of a school in Texas, and thought I understood it was a student of his that ran the school under his auspices.

I know that since, he has added music/ballet to some of his forms.  I also know that one of the forms has a high back kick where you lean forward and balance with one hand on the floor.  That would not have been allowed when I studied.  Kicks were practiced a lot, and he had a couple of signature kicks that were amazing.  But how much he changed, I can only go on others who have mentioned that he changed it so much it was almost like it wasn't TKD.  I sort of discount that.


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## jedtx88 (Dec 13, 2011)

Earl Weiss said:


> Jhoon Rhee was a Chung Do Kwan product, initialy using that system. The story is well known about how General Choi visited him (as well as many others0 and convinced him to learn the unified system using the TKD moniker, the only widespread one at the time whcih was the Chang Hon system. (It helped that General Choi had the Korean Government's backing) This continued for some time. As with many he taught the chang Hon system flavored with his original habits. (in his case CDK) When General Choi became personna non grata with the Korean government, that government came up with a new system of TKD going thru machinations until the current KKW system was founded. Jhoon Rhee as with many others for a variety of reason's (See "A Killing Art") left General Choi. Instead of adopting the new KKW system I guess he felt well established enough to create the Jhoon Rhee system. So, you may be doing any one of 3 things Chung Do Kwan, Chang Hon, ro the last system with variations as which may be dependant on whomever was learning and teaching and their prior habits.



Thankyou Mr. Weiss.


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## jedtx88 (Dec 13, 2011)

dancingalone said:


> My first martial art was Jhoon Rhee tae kwondo, fondly nicknamed 'Texkwondo', and I still have a lot of respect for the style. The version I learned actually used a high fighting stance for mobility in sparring, though we still employed the lower 'traditional' stances in the forms (Chon-ji, Dan-Gun, etc.). As I look at the more recent Jhoon Rhee material on Youtube, it doesn't look too different from what we practiced, aside from the martial ballet forms Mr. Rhee invented, and even then if we took out the music, the physical movement itself is very close to the JR basics I am familiar with.
> 
> So I'm not so sure Mr. Rhee changed all that much in a real sense after he left Texas for Maryland. In what way do you feel that he changed his system greatly?



i just you tubed my old forms.  You are right the movements are similar, but the stances in the martial ballet( which I was studying without the use of music apparently) are reminiscent of basic kick-boxing.  they never put any physical strain on me in comparison to the front and back stances I am currently working with.


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## dancingalone (Dec 13, 2011)

jedtx88 said:


> i just you tubed my old forms.  You are right the movements are similar, but the stances in the martial ballet( which I was studying without the use of music apparently) are reminiscent of basic kick-boxing.  they never put any physical strain on me in comparison to the front and back stances I am currently working with.



We had a slew of what were called "fighting combinations" and "practical one steps" that were practiced in that high stance you're familiar with.  I guess they might have been the beginnings of what he realized in the martial ballet forms.


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## dancingalone (Dec 13, 2011)

oftheherd1 said:


> I heard some mention of a school in Texas, and thought I understood it was a student of his that ran the school under his auspices.



At one point, there were many TKD schools in Texas under his lineage if not his direct control.  Jhoon Rhee TKD was very popular and had an almost ATA-like level of market dominance before the ATA got really big.



oftheherd1 said:


> I know that since, he has added music/ballet to some of his forms.  I also know that one of the forms has a high back kick where you lean forward and balance with one hand on the floor.  That would not have been allowed when I studied.  Kicks were practiced a lot, and he had a couple of signature kicks that were amazing.  But how much he changed, I can only go on others who have mentioned that he changed it so much it was almost like it wasn't TKD.  I sort of discount that.



The martial ballet forms have lots of movements that are probably more artistic in nature than martially oriented.  They probably are very crowd-pleasing as group demo forms.


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## Kinghercules (Dec 26, 2011)

jedtx88 said:


> I started studying the modern Jhoon Rhee system a few years ago, however when my instructor moved away I was forced to learn else where. After much debate I settled on another school that teaches Jhoon Rhee Tae Kwon Do.  Only it is an entirely different system! Don't get me wrong I love the traditional stances(not at first) and techniques and my instructor is an immpressive gentleman from the "blood n' guts" era of Texas Karate.  Still I have been wondering why Mr Rhee changed the system in the first place. I have been trying to research it for a while, but I am getting nowhere. Any information would be appreciated. Thankyou​



I say run to the next dojo.  LOL!  Ive never met anyone from a Jhoon Rhee school that could fight or had good techniques.  :ultracool  Seriously.
Jhoon Rhee use to have schools here in the Washington DC area and they had closed because he use to get his azz beat in the streets.  
How you gonna be a master teaching ppl how to defend themselves  and you cant defend yourself? LOL!! Come on!
:lol:


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## mastercole (Dec 26, 2011)

Earl Weiss said:


> Jhoon Rhee was a Chung Do Kwan product, initialy using that system. The story is well known about how General Choi visited him (as well as many others0 and convinced him to learn the unified system using the TKD moniker, the only widespread one at the time whcih was the Chang Hon system. (It helped that General Choi had the Korean Government's backing) This continued for some time. As with many he taught the chang Hon system flavored with his original habits. (in his case CDK)  When General Choi became personna non grata with the Korean government, that government came up with a new system of TKD going thru machinations until the current KKW system was founded.  Jhoon Rhee as with many others for a variety of reason's (See "A Killing Art")  left General Choi. Instead of adopting the new KKW system I guess he felt well established enough to create the Jhoon Rhee system.  So, you may be doing any one of 3 things Chung Do Kwan, Chang Hon, ro the last system with variations as which may be dependant on whomever was learning and teaching and their prior habits.



GM Jhoon Rhee explained it differently to Glenn (puunui) and myself, in a personal face to face conversation. He said that he was teaching pyongahn related hyungs in the USA, I believe at a Texas A&M ROTC Karate Club and that Gen. Choi sent him the Korean Army Field manual, which contained some of the Chang-hon hyungs. In a letter, Gen. Choi asked GM Rhee to start using the word Taekwondo instead of Karate, and to start teaching the hyungs found in the army field manual instead of the pyongahn related hyungs.  GM Rhee said no one ever taught him those Chang-hon hyung either, he just learned them directly from the Korean Army Field Manual.

Also, the unified Taekwondo of the KTA was not something created by the Korean Government, it was created by Taekwondo masters, including Gen. Choi, and including GM HYUN Jong Myun, the second Kwanjang of the Oh Do Kwan and ITF technical committee member. GM Hyun was appointed to the 1967 KTA Poomsae Committee that created the Plagwe, Dan and later Taegeuk Poomsae.  Gen. Choi became persona non grata AFTER the unification of Taekwondo techniques.

So the Oh Do Kwan, and the ITF helped created the current Kukkiwon Poomsae, and the technical system of the early KTA, which basically remains unchanged today, except for the addition of shihap kyorugi (Olympic sparring)

Oh, GM Rhee also said he never left Gen. Choi because he was never with him


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## Earl Weiss (Dec 27, 2011)

Kinghercules said:


> I say run to the next dojo. LOL! Ive never met anyone from a Jhoon Rhee school that could fight or had good techniques. :ultracool Seriously.
> Jhoon Rhee use to have schools here in the Washington DC area and they had closed because he use to get his azz beat in the streets.
> How you gonna be a master teaching ppl how to defend themselves and you cant defend yourself? LOL!! Come on!
> :lol:



Your lack of knowledge is showing . Following is an escerpt naming Jhoon Rhee progeny of the Texas "Blood and Guts days" who are well known fighters. 

"*Allen Steen met Jhoon Rhee*

Allen Steen met Jhoon Rhee (the man who brought Tae Kwon Do to the United States) as a fellow student at the University of Texas in 1959. He enrolled in Mr. Rhee's class, which was the first major University martial arts program in Texas.
In 1962, Mr. Steen opened the first commercial Tae Kwon Do / Karate school in the United States outside of New York, Chicago and California becoming known as the "Father of Texas Karate." That first year he enrolled almost a thousand students.
Steen earned his black belt in September of 1962. He presented his first black belt (to J. Pat Burleson, Steen's senior student) in 1963. Mr. Steen's reputation as a champion and trainer of champions remains unparalleled. Grandmaster Steen's many champions include Burleson, Skipper Mullins, Fred Wren, Demetrius Havanas, Roy Kurban, Jim Harkins, Keith Yates, Jim Miller, Jeff Smith, George Minshew, Ray McCallum and Larry Wheeler.
*Steen won dozens of championships*

Steen won dozens of championships in an impressive competitive career. In 1966 he beat the top two competitors in the country back to back, Chuck Norris and Joe Lewis, to become the only Texan to win the prestigious Grand-championship of the International Karate Championships."

And yes there is a "Story" he was ambushed by 3 thugs on the street and took a beating. (Unable to verify story) So what?


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## Kinghercules (Dec 27, 2011)

Earl Weiss said:


> Your lack of knowledge is showing . Following is an escerpt naming Jhoon Rhee progeny of the Texas "Blood and Guts days" who are well known fighters.
> 
> "*Allen Steen met Jhoon Rhee*
> 
> ...



1st of all I didnt say he didnt have any good fighters.  I *said* Ive neva met any.
2nd of all Jhoon Rhee gettin his azz beat in the streets here in DC wasnt just a one time incident.
3rd....he was suppose to be a master. Back then he was 4th or 5th dan BB and *he couldnt handle 3 guys.*  I was gettin jumped in Jr high when I was a blue belt by 3 or more bammas and still dropped them!!  

I guessed the difference was that I was trained by a real fighter, Ki Whang Kim, and I guess it doesnt help that GM Ki Whang didnt like Jhoon Rhee anyway. :lol:


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## SahBumNimRush (Dec 27, 2011)

Kinghercules said:


> 1st of all I didnt say he didnt have any good fighters.  I *said* Ive neva met any.
> 2nd of all Jhoon Rhee gettin his azz beat in the streets here in DC wasnt just a one time incident.
> 3rd....he was suppose to be a master. Back then he was 4th or 5th dan BB and *he couldnt handle 3 guys.*  I was gettin jumped in Jr high when I was a blue belt by 3 or more bammas and still dropped them!!
> 
> I guessed the difference was that I was trained by a real fighter, Ki Whang Kim, and I guess it doesnt help that GM Ki Whang didnt like Jhoon Rhee anyway. :lol:



I don't know the reason for sure (heard a few rumors, but don't know exactly), but many of the Korean Masters in my neck of the woods (including Ki Whang Kim) did not think highly of Jhoon Rhee.  I have only met Rhee a couple of times, none of which I could discern any martial ability, as he did not demonstrate any martial arts.  He did however do his 100 push ups in one minute, which was impressive for anyone, let alone someone of his age.


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## Earl Weiss (Dec 27, 2011)

Kinghercules said:


> 1st of all I didnt say he didnt have any good fighters. I *said* Ive neva met any.
> 2nd of all Jhoon Rhee gettin his azz beat in the streets here in DC wasnt just a one time incident.
> 3rd....he was suppose to be a master. Back then he was 4th or 5th dan BB and *he couldnt handle 3 guys.* I was gettin jumped in Jr high when I was a blue belt by 3 or more bammas and still dropped them!!
> 
> I guessed the difference was that I was trained by a real fighter, Ki Whang Kim, and I guess it doesnt help that GM Ki Whang didnt like Jhoon Rhee anyway. :lol:



Can you provide an internet link to any story about Jhoon Rhee being mugged? 

Perhaps the difference was in the "Jumpers" and not the "Jumpee".


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## Kinghercules (Dec 27, 2011)

Earl Weiss said:


> Can you provide an internet link to any story about Jhoon Rhee being mugged?
> 
> Perhaps the difference was in the "Jumpers" and not the "Jumpee".



Internet link?  Seriously?
Man that happened back int he 80s and Im not doin no micro-fishing just to prove a point on here.
Next time you in DC you just ask one of the old heads about the stories.


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## The Last Legionary (Dec 27, 2011)

Kinghercules said:


> Internet link?  Seriously?
> Man that happened back int he 80s and Im not doin no micro-fishing just to prove a point on here.
> Next time you in DC you just ask one of the old heads about the stories.


The old heads. You mean, the toilets in the bus station? Tell me, do they speak English where you are? Because here that is the language preferred. Not ebonics, not ghetto, not jive, and not trailer.


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## Earl Weiss (Dec 28, 2011)

Kinghercules said:


> Internet link? Seriously?
> Man that happened back int he 80s and Im not doin no micro-fishing just to prove a point on here.
> Next time you in DC you just ask one of the old heads about the stories.



Back in the 80s? Gee, ancient history I guess. I know lots of stories. A bunch start with "once upon a time." 

TKD has plenty of "Stories". Like Jhoon Rhee not developing good fighters. Here's one - Jeff Smith " http://www.ikfkickboxing.com/JeffSmith.htm. Of course that was back in the 1970's.- 1980s 

If you tell us a story to "Prove a point" perhasp you should let us know that is what it is. Some stories are true, some not, some we will never know.


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## SahBumNimRush (Dec 28, 2011)

Earl Weiss said:


> Can you provide an internet link to any story about Jhoon Rhee being mugged?
> 
> Perhaps the difference was in the "Jumpers" and not the "Jumpee".



I remember hearing about this when I was a kid.. . Although I didn't grow up around the D.C. area.. .  However, all I could come up with were conversations about it.  Maybe it truly is an urban legend?

"People may not remember, but Jhoon Rhee (inventor of much of the gear  and pads used today) was mugged outside his Washington apartment years  ago.  He was carrying groceries, and had both hands full when somebody  just walked up and clubbed the crap out of him...

As you say... it can happen to anyone..."  http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=15879641&site_id=1#import

"So, those of us who grew up in the DC area in the 1970s and 80s remember  Jhoon Rhee Self Defense.  Jhoon, a Korean immigrant, became a huge  business powerhouse in this area.  His self defense courses were  legendary around here, and I went to school with his kids, Chun and  Meme.  For reasons I cannot possibly explain, I have ended up in an  argument between Chun and a few other people from my school about  whether his father was mugged in the 1980s (possibly 90s).  So I did  some research, but came up with nothing conclusive except a bunch of  people saying in various comment boards he was mugged, but no links,  news stories, or anything conclusive.  In fact, I really want to chalk  this up as an urban legend because the story about "grand master of  martial arts gets mugged" seems like those kinds of tales.  Chun, of  course, denies his father was mugged, and points out he had heard tales  that he himself was shot, or died eating pop rocks and soda, over the  years.  Chun now runs the Rhee studio (although his dad is in his 80s  and in great shape), so the argument some of my former classmates have  used is, "well, of course you say that; it would ruin your reputation."

Has anyone ever heard of this happening to Jhoon, and have some kind of news story that may point one way or another?

I  know those of you who know the guy I am talking about are now singing,  in their head, "Call USA One Thousand..." and "Nobddy boddas me..."   Those were his kids in that commercial, BTW, and E Street Band's own  Nils Lofgren apparently sung that theme song when he was a struggling  artist out here."  http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=1146562


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## ETinCYQX (Dec 28, 2011)

Kinghercules said:


> Internet link?  Seriously?
> Man that happened back int he 80s and Im not doin no micro-fishing just to prove a point on here.
> Next time you in DC you just ask one of the old heads about the stories.



In case you were wondering, you're a tool.


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## Kinghercules (Dec 29, 2011)

ETinCYQX said:


> In case you were wondering, you're a tool.



I know....women use me all the time and I jus hate it! 
:lol:


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## Kinghercules (Dec 29, 2011)

Earl Weiss said:


> Back in the 80s? Gee, ancient history I guess. I know lots of stories. A bunch start with "once upon a time."
> 
> TKD has plenty of "Stories". Like Jhoon Rhee not developing good fighters. Here's one - Jeff Smith " http://www.ikfkickboxing.com/JeffSmith.htm. Of course that was back in the 1970's.- 1980s
> 
> If you tell us a story to "Prove a point" perhasp you should let us know that is what it is. Some stories are true, some not, some we will never know.



Yeah.....good fighters that couldnt hang with Ki Whang Kim's students. :shrug:
Ive heard of Jeff Smith and Albert Cheeks had beatin him several time (http://www.lacancha.com/albertcheeks.html).


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## dancingalone (Dec 29, 2011)

Kinghercules said:


> Yeah.....good fighters that couldnt hang with Ki Whang Kim's students. :shrug:
> Ive heard of Jeff Smith and Albert Cheeks had beatin him several time (http://www.lacancha.com/albertcheeks.html).



You're going way over the top with this.  Reading over Mr. Cheeks biography, he indeed is a great American TKD pioneer.  Not sure why you think putting down Jhoon Rhee and his students increases the luster of  Mr. Cheeks or Mr. Kim in any way.  

As an aside, this tournament result states that Jeff Smith did beat Mr. Cheeks at least on one occasion, albeit on a 2-1 retirement.  http://<a href=&quot;[url]http://bo...&q=albert[/url] cheeks jeff smith&f=false</a>http://books.google.com/books?id=N9...#v=onepage&q=albert cheeks jeff smith&f=false


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## jks9199 (Dec 29, 2011)

Folks,
Let's remember to state our views with courtesy and not take shots at each other.  We don't have to like every style or every school -- or even each other-- but we don't have to be rude or insulting when we express our dislike.


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## Earl Weiss (Dec 29, 2011)

dancingalone said:


> You're going way over the top with this. Reading over Mr. Cheeks biography, he indeed is a great American TKD pioneer. Not sure why you think putting down Jhoon Rhee and his students increases the luster of Mr. Cheeks or Mr. Kim in any way.
> 
> As an aside, this tournament result states that Jeff Smith did beat Mr. Cheeks at least on one occasion, albeit on a 2-1 retirement. http://books.google.com/books?id=N9...#v=onepage&q=albert cheeks jeff smith&f=false



Taking nothing away from GM Cheeks, (Dancing alone did better than I with the search results) I couldn't find anything about him beating Jeff Smith (Or anyone specific although he is a noted Chamion.) Anyone have a link suporting Kinghercules claim as to beating Jeff Smith or other noteables?


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## Kinghercules (Dec 29, 2011)

dancingalone said:


> You're going way over the top with this.  Reading over Mr. Cheeks biography, he indeed is a great American TKD pioneer.  Not sure why you think putting down Jhoon Rhee and his students increases the luster of  Mr. Cheeks or Mr. Kim in any way.
> 
> As an aside, this tournament result states that Jeff Smith did beat Mr. Cheeks at least on one occasion, albeit on a 2-1 retirement.  http://books.google.com/books?id=N9cDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA55&lpg=PA55&dq=albert+cheeks+jeff+smith&source=bl&ots=7WLX8-0Ehv&sig=_vaQzdJg7XOxOY13KFYO8-2bNFA&hl=en&sa=X&ei=kXf8ToCSC-i42wXyxrn7Ag&ved=0CDoQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=albert cheeks jeff smith&f=false



Yeah you're right.  
But all I said was that* I've never* met any good students of Jhoon Rhee and that back in the day he got beat up in the street and thats why here in DC his schools had closed.

Yeah you're right about GM Cheeks loosin to Jeff Smith in that match and I believe it was because Cheeks was injured in a fight previous.
Jeff Smith has a illmatic record. It would be silly of me to say he wasnt a good fighter.


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## puunui (Dec 29, 2011)

mastercole said:


> GM Jhoon Rhee explained it differently to Glenn (puunui) and myself, in a personal face to face conversation. He said that he was teaching pyongahn related hyungs in the USA, I believe at a Texas A&M ROTC Karate Club and that Gen. Choi sent him the Korean Army Field manual, which contained some of the Chang-hon hyungs. In a letter, Gen. Choi asked GM Rhee to start using the word Taekwondo instead of Karate, and to start teaching the hyungs found in the army field manual instead of the pyongahn related hyungs.  GM Rhee said no one ever taught him those Chang-hon hyung either, he just learned them directly from the Korean Army Field Manual.



I remember that. It was when GM Rhee was attending USTU events semi regularly. So we got to know him. The conversation was pretty short, we were walking someplace, we asked him a couple of quick questions and all this information came out of GM Rhee's mouth. People who were with us were stunned, literally with their mouths open, by the relaxed frankness in which GM Rhee spoke to us. It proved that the seniors do not wish to hide the true history of their art and their experiences, but rather are very open about it, IF you approach them in the correct and proper fashion.




mastercole said:


> Also, the unified Taekwondo of the KTA was not something created by the Korean Government, it was created by Taekwondo masters, including Gen. Choi, and including GM HYUN Jong Myun, the second Kwanjang of the Oh Do Kwan and ITF technical committee member. GM Hyun was appointed to the 1967 KTA Poomsae Committee that created the Plagwe, Dan and later Taegeuk Poomsae.  Gen. Choi became persona non grata AFTER the unification of Taekwondo techniques. So the Oh Do Kwan, and the ITF helped created the current Kukkiwon Poomsae, and the technical system of the early KTA, which basically remains unchanged today, except for the addition of shihap kyorugi (Olympic sparring)



People tend to ignore these facts, but the truth of the matter is that the Ohdokwan did fully participate in the unification process. GM Hyun a key person in taekwondo's history because he a) was the first instructor for GM HWANG Kee's railroad martial art club in the 1940's, which is how he learned the Chung Do Kwan hyung; b) was present at the December 19, 1954 meeting where the name Taekwon was created; and c) was the second Oh Do Kwan Jang, after GM NAM Tae Hi; and d) was a member of the KTA committee that created the Palgwae, Yudanja and Taeguek poomsae. 




mastercole said:


> Oh, GM Rhee also said he never left Gen. Choi because he was never with him


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## puunui (Dec 29, 2011)

SahBumNimRush said:


> I don't know the reason for sure (heard a few rumors, but don't know exactly), but many of the Korean Masters in my neck of the woods (including Ki Whang Kim) did not think highly of Jhoon Rhee.



Among the USTU seniors, GM Rhee was looked upon as not being a team player. 




SahBumNimRush said:


> I have only met Rhee a couple of times, none of which I could discern any martial ability, as he did not demonstrate any martial arts.  He did however do his 100 push ups in one minute, which was impressive for anyone, let alone someone of his age.



There is a movie "When Taekwondo Strikes" which stars GM Rhee. He looks pretty good in that.


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## miguksaram (Dec 29, 2011)

Kinghercules said:


> I say run to the next dojo.  LOL!  Ive never met anyone from a Jhoon Rhee school that could fight or had good techniques.  :ultracool  Seriously.
> Jhoon Rhee use to have schools here in the Washington DC area and they had closed because he use to get his azz beat in the streets.
> How you gonna be a master teaching ppl how to defend themselves  and you cant defend yourself? LOL!! Come on!
> :lol:


So tell me are you jumping on all these styles that are not Ki Whang Kim  because you have watched too many Samurai Sunday flicks and feel the need to challenge any one's style that is not your own?  Or are you just basically being ignorant on purpose to get a rise out of people?

Secondly, perhaps you could cite all of these incidents of GM Rhee getting his "azz" beat in the streets.  Also, how many of his student have you fought to come to the conclusion that you have never met one that can fight?

Plus, honestly, saying you are from the hood merits you no extra bonus points on here nor does it automatically make you a bad *** in our eyes. We basically do not care.  We are looking for intelligent conversation on TKD or other martial arts.  We have plenty of people who are hood rats on here.  They are great people with open minds and not ready to 'dis a homey because he be trippin' takin' dat whack art and not the bad azz art I take.  Word.


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## Kinghercules (Dec 29, 2011)

miguksaram said:


> So tell me are you jumping on all these styles that are not Ki Whang Kim  because you have watched too many Samurai Sunday flicks and feel the need to challenge any one's style that is not your own?  Or are you just basically being ignorant on purpose to get a rise out of people?


Basically.




miguksaram said:


> Plus, honestly, saying you are from the hood merits you no extra bonus points on here nor does it automatically make you a bad *** in our eyes.


Not yet, but....give it a min.



miguksaram said:


> We have plenty of people who are hood rats on here.


Not really.
Dats why Im here.


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## miguksaram (Dec 30, 2011)

Kinghercules said:


> Basically.


Got it..nuff said.



> Not yet, but....give it a min.


~Ding!~  Time's up....nope...still don't care, and no bonus points added.



> Not really.
> Dats why Im here.


Actually, really.  However, we don't feel the need to tell everyone about it when it merits no additional impact on the statements we are trying to make.


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## Earl Weiss (Dec 30, 2011)

I think the main issue for these boards or even more caustic ones is and should be that while on does not have to be a fan of a style or instructor, if you're bad mouth something you should be able to back it up with specifics, or just be very clear that your opinion is only that and may very well be based on limited observation.  I am not and have never claimed to be a proponent of Jhoon Rhee although I think he has made some valuable contributions by development  of safety gear and spreading the art to government officials, but if someone bad mouths him or anyone else I will ask for specifics. 

Providing or failing to provide  specifics will allow board readers to view the story inthe appropriate light.

Most instructors train various levels of people. Some mere hobbyists who may train a couple of hours a week, and some who may train several hours a day. Few instructos would want to be judged by their worst student on their best day, or their best student on their worst day.


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## jks9199 (Dec 30, 2011)

*ATTENTION ALL USERS:

Please keep the conversation polite and respectful.

Jim Sheeran
jks9199
Asst. Administrator
*


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## MJS (Dec 31, 2011)

Kinghercules said:


> Basically.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



So, in a nutshell, the main reasons why you're here are to:

1) Bash any art thats not like the Ultimate one that you do.
2) Troll the forum.

I suggest that you take the time to review the forum rules that YOU agreed to upon joining the forum.  If you honestly want to stick around for a while vs. getting the boot, maybe you'll want to start making some productive posts!


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## Steve (Dec 31, 2011)

Earl Weiss said:


> I think the main issue for these boards or even more caustic ones is and should be that while on does not have to be a fan of a style or instructor, if you're bad mouth something you should be able to back it up with specifics, or just be very clear that your opinion is only that and may very well be based on limited observation.



This.   Without specifics, it's worthless trolling at best and slander/libel at worst.


Sent using Tapatalk.  Please ignore typos.


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## kickillustrated (Mar 13, 2022)

jedtx88 said:


> I started studying the modern Jhoon Rhee system a few years ago, however when my instructor moved away I was forced to learn else where. After much debate I settled on another school that teaches Jhoon Rhee Tae Kwon Do.  Only it is an entirely different system! Don't get me wrong I love the traditional stances(not at first) and techniques and my instructor is an immpressive gentleman from the "blood n' guts" era of Texas Karate.  Still I have been wondering why Mr Rhee changed the system in the first place. I have been trying to research it for a while, but I am getting nowhere. Any information would be appreciated. Thankyou​


GM Rhee talks about his reasons to change the system in this interview:








						Jhoon Rhee
					

It probably could be a pretty soft life in the foam-rubber world of Jhoon Rhee, the man who [...]



					www.backkicks.com


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