# Freestanding Heavy Bag...water or sand



## FearlessFreep

I couldn't find a forum on gear so...I'll put this here

I picked up a free standing heavy bag for my apartment.  I'm wondering of there are pros/cons in filling them with water versus sand

Thanks


----------



## Kacey

Well, I filled my class's with water - but it has to be moved periodically.  If you will NEVER move it, then sand could be a good choice, but it's hard to get in and harder to get out, when compared to water.  And if it ever gets wet, you may never be able to get all the sand out.  Water is very dense for it's volume, and has worked well for us.


----------



## tshadowchaser

The other side of the coin is if it get a whole in it sand can be swept up and water may ruin a floor
depending on where you are both sand and water can do strange things in the winter  I never want to kick or hit a frozen bag


----------



## FearlessFreep

The water/sand is only in the base, it does not fille the core of what you are striking...if that means anything...


----------



## terryl965

I have always used sand, water is just to messy and if you get a crack in them sand is easier to fix than water.
Terry


----------



## tshadowchaser

the one in my school was given to me because someone had it in their apartment and the water froze cracking the base and then unfroze and flooded the place


----------



## Kacey

Ah... that explains why people use sand.  No one I know has used sand, probably because we all live in places where you couldn't leave a wavemaster outside in the winter anyway - and I've never had one crack.  When I first got one for my class, there was a hose connection down the hall, but sand would have to have been brought in up a flight of stairs (no elevator) one sack at a time - which was a major consideration.  Also, the room we were in at the time had carpet - carpet dries, but sand is a pain to get out of carpet pile.  Now that we're in a room with a decent wood floor, I might consider changing the contents of the wavemaster... except that first we'd have to get it up the stairs to the nearest drain, and then haul the sand in through half the building (not too bad with a dolly) and then down a different flight of stairs, with a nice 180 turn in the middle of the staircase... but still, you bring up some good points about sand that I hadn't considered in that context.


----------



## FearlessFreep

I'm currently in Washington DC but the bag is for indoor use only in my apartment, but my apartment is *all* carpet so the ramification of a leak are pretty bad.

I wanted to fill it this afternoong but was uncertain of the right approach that I will read all the replies and make a decision tomorrow


----------



## Ceicei

I fill mine with water.  It's heavy.  I keep it indoors also.  With proper care, there shouldn't expect to be any cracks in it for quite a while.  If it eventually springs a leak within a few years or so, I will dry it out and fill it up with sand.

- Ceicei


----------



## Sin

I've got one of those "wave Master" bags in my room that I got for my 18th birthday.  I filled it with water because my room isn't the largest and the bag sits in front of my closet.  It is a must that I move it aroung, and besides as I am using it with every punch it moves, even just slightly, so I always gotta change up my moves, also it makes my pivot around it to in order to keep it out of a corner.


----------



## TigerWoman

Our school has been using the wavemasters for a long time.  They have gone through several changes mostly I think because the seams crack and they leak.  Well we do pound them considerably.  One thing we noticed though was that if you fill them with water as we do, to roll them do not just twist the bag top.  Rather put you hand on the black base and roll that with just supporting the top.  This puts less torque on the black plastic frame and it hopefully won't start leaking as fast.  But if you pound them down on the floor alot as we do, well....

I had a TKO one with a spring on the bottom and which had a larger base but was really hard to move either by kicking or by hand. It didn't leak except through its fill hole which I plugged with a rubber washer. They are out of business now though.  But I filled in with a hose through the window or once by milk jug and funnel-slow.  To unfill it use a pump and a hose to your shower drain, hopefully on the same floor otherwise you have to bucket it out as we do in the dojang. TW


----------



## Brian R. VanCise

I have never had a problem using water. The best thing about
water is that you can get the water out easier if you have to 
move it. 

Brian R. VanCise
www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com


----------



## Gemini

Water is definately easier, and we use it at the school because if it cracks at the seem (which has happened) it's not that big of a deal. If you're going to keep it in your apartment, I would recommend sand. Even though it probably won't crack, the consiquences are too great if it does. There goes the old security deposit and then some.


----------



## FearlessFreep

That did it....the thought of a potential leak or spill in the apartment sent me to sand.

But I only used 120lbs...will probably pick up 60 more tonight if I can

it was messy


----------



## IcemanSK

Mine is outside & I live in L.A, so freezing isn't an issue. Water is easier to get than sand, too. But if I had it indoors &/or in colder areas of the world, sand would be my choice.


----------



## oceanic

sorry to resurrect a dead thread. google brought me here.

how much sand do i need to fill in a freestanding bag? just so it doesn't move too much. 

I'm not a heavy hitter, 5foot7inch, no fighting experience. Just bought the everlast pro everflex freestanding punch bag and think i should go with sand to fill it as can't risk a leak. But don't want to make it too heavy that i can't move it around in the apartment from corner to center of room.

any opinions appreciated.

also any youtube channels that could guide me through learning to use the bag. Preferably a practical martial arts style for a novice beginner.

thanks


----------



## skribs

You could have opened a new thread.


----------



## JR 137

I think the sliding around is more of a friction between the floor and base issue than a weight issue.  I filled mine with six 45 lbs bags of pea gravel.  On a semi-rough concrete basement floor, it still slid a good amount.

I bought one of those industrial rubber floor mats, and it hasn’t moved since.  I could’ve probably gotten away with less gravel in it.




I got it for about $20 at Home Depot.  It fits pretty good under my BOB XL base.  It can be cut down to fit almost perfectly under the base if you’ve got heavy scissors/shears/whatever they’re called and some motivation.  I’m not that motivated.


----------



## hoshin1600

It's probably easier to grab it by the top and use leverage to tip it and roll it on its bottom edge than sliding it into a corner. With that in mind the weight is less of an issue. 
At one point we did have a fairly comical thread here about different types of sand and their mass / weight in relation to their geometrical shape  VS water and stone.


----------



## CB Jones

Why not water and sand?

The right ratio of water and sand will give you a good weighted base with less risk of water damage if you get a crack.


----------



## Headhunter

skribs said:


> You could have opened a new thread.


He could've but he didn't


----------



## Headhunter

oceanic said:


> sorry to resurrect a dead thread. google brought me here.
> 
> how much sand do i need to fill in a freestanding bag? just so it doesn't move too much.
> 
> I'm not a heavy hitter, 5foot7inch, no fighting experience. Just bought the everlast pro everflex freestanding punch bag and think i should go with sand to fill it as can't risk a leak. But don't want to make it too heavy that i can't move it around in the apartment from corner to center of room.
> 
> any opinions appreciated.
> 
> also any youtube channels that could guide me through learning to use the bag. Preferably a practical martial arts style for a novice beginner.
> 
> thanks


Fill it with a small amount first. Test it if not enough fill it more...then repeat until you get what you want


----------



## oceanic

skribs said:


> You could have opened a new thread.



wanted the opinions of the owners who have had these bags for a while. and thought it would be good for future reference for everyone else. 



JR 137 said:


> I think the sliding around is more of a friction between the floor and base issue than a weight issue.  I filled mine with six 45 lbs bags of pea gravel.  On a semi-rough concrete basement floor, it still slid a good amount.
> 
> I bought one of those industrial rubber floor mats, and it hasn’t moved since.  I could’ve probably gotten away with less gravel in it.
> View attachment 21190
> I got it for about $20 at Home Depot.  It fits pretty good under my BOB XL base.  It can be cut down to fit almost perfectly under the base if you’ve got heavy scissors/shears/whatever they’re called and some motivation.  I’m not that motivated.



thanks for the idea will probably do that. if it slides. 



hoshin1600 said:


> It's probably easier to grab it by the top and use leverage to tip it and roll it on its bottom edge than sliding it into a corner. With that in mind the weight is less of an issue.
> At one point we did have a fairly comical thread here about different types of sand and their mass / weight in relation to their geometrical shape  VS water and stone.



can't do that with mine as it has a flexible neck. everlast pro everflex. 



CB Jones said:


> Why not water and sand?
> 
> The right ratio of water and sand will give you a good weighted base with less risk of water damage if you get a crack.



the hole is so tiny. would never be able to get the sand out if i used both.


----------



## oceanic

Headhunter said:


> Fill it with a small amount first. Test it if not enough fill it more...then repeat until you get what you want



have to buy the sand first. and cheaper the more i buy.

manual says to use 540lbs = 240kg
200kg sand = £28
120kg sand = £24
120kg + 80kg bought separately = £40

with discounts.

but the stuff is heavy so would rather avoid buying more than i need.  more than the money savings.

gonna try 120kg i think, that's roughly what 45lbs x 6 equals.

hopefully that will work.


----------



## skribs

oceanic said:


> wanted the opinions of the owners who have had these bags for a while. and thought it would be good for future reference for everyone else.



It's going to be the same people replying whether it's a new thread or on the old thread.

Typical forum etiquette is not to necro threads.


----------



## hoshin1600

oceanic said:


> have to buy the sand first. and cheaper the more i buy.
> 
> manual says to use 540lbs = 240kg
> 200kg sand = £28
> 120kg sand = £24
> 120kg + 80kg bought separately = £40
> 
> with discounts.
> 
> but the stuff is heavy so would rather avoid buying more than i need.  more than the money savings.
> 
> gonna try 120kg i think, that's roughly what 45lbs x 6 equals.
> 
> hopefully that will work.


 just a thought;  if you live in a location that gets snow or ice, you can put any left over sand in your car trunk for if you ever get stuck.


----------



## Dirty Dog

Water is heavier, but messier. Trust me. If you're a heavy hitter (or become one... because practice...) the base can be split along the mold seam. I've done it twice so far; once with a spinning back kick and one with a side kick.
Sand isn't quite as heavy, but it's plenty heavy, I think. And it's a lot easier to clean up.


----------



## oceanic

Dirty Dog said:


> Water is heavier, but messier. Trust me. If you're a heavy hitter (or become one... because practice...) the base can be split along the mold seam. I've done it twice so far; once with a spinning back kick and one with a side kick.
> Sand isn't quite as heavy, but it's plenty heavy, I think. And it's a lot easier to clean up.



definitely have to go with sand then.

hopefully 120kg enough.

any youtube channels showing moves/exercises to use with the bag?


----------



## hoshin1600

Dirty Dog said:


> Water is heavier, but messier.


i believe this is incorrect.  sand is heaver than water by volume due to its density.  of course wet sand would be even heavier.
Which is heavier 5 gal bucket with sand or with water?


----------



## Dirty Dog

hoshin1600 said:


> i believe this is incorrect.  sand is heaver than water by volume due to its density.  of course wet sand would be even heavier.
> Which is heavier 5 gal bucket with sand or with water?



Well, that link doesn't exactly contain anything that could remotely be called science, but I won't argue, since I'm not willing to go weigh a couple buckets. 
I do think it was easier to knock the bag over when it was filled with water.
So sand is heavier AND easier to clean up. Win-Win.


----------



## hoshin1600

Dirty Dog said:


> Well, that link doesn't exactly contain anything that could remotely be called science, but I won't argue, since I'm not willing to go weigh a couple buckets.
> I do think it was easier to knock the bag over when it was filled with water.
> So sand is heavier AND easier to clean up. Win-Win.


yeah it wasnt science in the least. i just googled it and every link said the same thing,,,as unscientific as it is.   once the weather is warmer ..i will do the science and fill a few buckets to lay this eternal debate to rest.


----------



## Dirty Dog

hoshin1600 said:


> yeah it wasnt science in the least. i just googled it and every link said the same thing,,,as unscientific as it is.   once the weather is warmer ..i will do the science and fill a few buckets to lay this eternal debate to rest.



Where it will get nitpicky is the definition of 'sand', since sand is just 'really small rocks' and exists in such a wide variety. The density of the 'sand' will matter, but in determining weight by volume, so will the shape and the actual size of the average grain. More air gaps, lower weight. And there is certainly some types of sand (often called silt) which is pretty much the same density as water. I've dove in caves with no current where screwing up the visibility takes literally hours to clear. And the source material. What if your sand is volcanic rather than granite? Specifically pumice, which we all know is a rock that floats.
Bottom line for me is that sand, regardless of any small difference in weight, is much MUCH easier to clean up when I break the base of our freestanding bags.


----------



## hoshin1600

Dirty Dog said:


> Where it will get nitpicky is the definition of 'sand', since sand is just 'really small rocks' and exists in such a wide variety. The density of the 'sand' will matter, but in determining weight by volume, so will the shape and the actual size of the average grain. More air gaps, lower weight. And there is certainly some types of sand (often called silt) which is pretty much the same density as water. I've dove in caves with no current where screwing up the visibility takes literally hours to clear. And the source material. What if your sand is volcanic rather than granite? Specifically pumice, which we all know is a rock that floats.
> Bottom line for me is that sand, regardless of any small difference in weight, is much MUCH easier to clean up when I break the base of our freestanding bags.


I'm having some deja vu. Yes the type of sand and the granular geometric shape will make a difference somewhat determined by whether it's a man made or natural sand. But to simplify the experiment I will use sand from home depot both play sand and concrete mix sand.  As this sand is most likely to be consistent from batch to batch and store to store. Or at least more so than digging in the back yard, or river beds.


----------

