# most suitable art for a doorman??



## TjThunder (Jul 30, 2007)

A friend of mine recently got a job as a doorman at a popular local bar and was thinking of taking up a martial art to learn some skills to assist him in his work. He was looking at a Hapkido school, a Brazilian jiu jitsu school and a judo school, and he asked me which art would best suit his profession. I told my friend I would get back to him after I sought the knowledgeable advice of those on Martialtalk. My friend isn't that "big", I think 6'1 200lbs, but he's all muscle and very fit. His primary interest is in skills that would suit his job, what art should he take up ??? I will prob post this in the judo forum too, as he was leaning towards judo as well, but I really want to know what Hapkido practitioners think. Thanks alot!!


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## bushidomartialarts (Jul 30, 2007)

I usually say that there isn't a 'most suitable' or 'best' art, only good matches of an art with a student.

I stand by that, and if your friend wants to become a martial artist, that's the way he'll want to train.

But if he's really just looking for some skills to help him do his job, I'd recommend wrestling (for takedowns), jiu jutsu (for locks) or CDT Nonlethal Training.

I would recommend _against_ BJJ.  Too much focus on the ground game, which is not where a bouncer wants to be.  He wants to stay on his feet.  An arm bar or rear naked choke is nice, but do you really expect him to tap out?  Nope.  You'll wind up getting sued.  That is, assuming his mate isn't breaking a bottle over your head while you're setting it up.


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## TjThunder (Jul 31, 2007)

very true.  That's what I thought about BJJ in this situation, it's emphasis on the ground would not make it the best fit in this case. Thanks for your imput.


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## arnisador (Jul 31, 2007)

There's a lot of standing work in BJJ--clinching, takedowns, judo-style throws. Going to the ground is a bad idea in this situation, esp. but not only because of the very strong possibility of multiple opponents, but BJJ still has much to offer. Remember, _he _may well be taken to the ground by _them_.


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## bushidomartialarts (Jul 31, 2007)

arnisador said:


> There's a lot of standing work in BJJ--clinching, takedowns, judo-style throws. Going to the ground is a bad idea in this situation, esp. but not only because of the very strong possibility of multiple opponents, but BJJ still has much to offer. Remember, _he _may well be taken to the ground by _them_.



True enough.  I'd still favor classical JJ, which seems to spend more time on standing locks and holds, which are more useful to a bouncer than throws and takedowns.

Still, overall I'd say BJJ vs CJJ isn't nearly as important as the skill of the person training.


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## arnisador (Jul 31, 2007)

bushidomartialarts said:


> I'd still favor classical JJ, which seems to spend more time on standing locks and holds, which are more useful to a bouncer than throws and takedowns.



I agree--classical Japanese jujutsu is almost ideal for a situation like this. Of course, one must always cross-train--other skills are also important, like some boxing, for example.



> Still, overall I'd say BJJ vs CJJ isn't nearly as important as the skill of the person training.



Definitely. A good instructor should be able to adapt the vast majority of arts out there to fit this situation!


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## Darth F.Takeda (Aug 1, 2007)

Seeing as Jujutsu is not an option listed, then I would go with Judo over BJJ for a doorman. He'll learn how to control a man on his feet well and there is a grappling component to Judo, not as much as with BJJ but that is a good thing in this case. He'll know how to handle himself if taken down and how to get up, instead of fixating on the ground game.


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## Andrew Green (Aug 1, 2007)

Judo, control on the feet, takedowns and pins if needed.  You probably don't want something that uses a lot of joint attacks, especially wrists and smaller thigns.  Too big of a risk that something snaps and someone gets sued IMO.  Judo or wrestling.


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## Yari (Aug 2, 2007)

I do agree on CJJ, depending on the school.

But that's not reaaly the discussion I wanted to move into. Even though you asked for which style your friend should use, I would say that 80 to 90 % conflicts can be handled by conflict training. He'll proably get the most out of trying out some conflict training.

In Denmark we have classes for specicaly for doormen, which are concentrted on confict resolution. This has been a great hit, since it's decressed greatly on physical confrontations in the line of work.

I'm sorry I dont know were they have this in the States, but matbe you can look around for that. I think it's worth the effeort.

(or you could hire me, and I'll come over over and teach ..... ;-) )

/yari


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## Drac (Aug 2, 2007)

Yari said:


> In Denmark we have classes for specicaly for doormen, which are concentrted on confict resolution. This has been a great hit, since it's decressed greatly on physical confrontations in the line of work.
> 
> I'm sorry I dont know were they have this in the States, but matbe you can look around for that. I think it's worth the effeort.
> 
> ...


 
We need that over here..Most of the time the bouncers rely on brute strenght and size, doesn't always work they soon find out..


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## Jdokan (Aug 2, 2007)

Personally I think a nice Renoir....Always liked them...


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## bushidomartialarts (Aug 2, 2007)

Yari said:


> I do agree on CJJ, depending on the school.
> 
> But that's not reaaly the discussion I wanted to move into. Even though you asked for which style your friend should use, I would say that 80 to 90 % conflicts can be handled by conflict training. He'll proably get the most out of trying out some conflict training.
> 
> ...



This is a great suggestion and important point.  He may want to look into 'Verbal Judo' or similar programs.

Back when I was bouncing, my favorite move was to keep the guy talking while the rest of my team came up behind him.  Even really big, really drunk guys tend to go quietly when there's a half-dozen guys surrounding him.


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## TjThunder (Aug 2, 2007)

the conflict resolution training sounds like a great suggestion!!  I'm not really sure where to look for this kind of thing, but I'll let my buddy know this kind of training is out there and he can let his fingers do the walking.  Thanks again !!


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## Drac (Aug 2, 2007)

bushidomartialarts said:


> This is a great suggestion and important point. He may want to look into 'Verbal Judo' or similar programs


 
Now here is where I get called all manner of unclean things..*DO NOT* waste your time on *Verbal Judo* or *Tongue-Fu*..I have seen too many fights break out during my bouncer days and the one attempting to play the peace maker is usually the one who gets hurt because he invested too much time talking..I agree leaning to keep you voice calm and not screaming is a *good thing*, learning to block and strike is a little more important..




			
				bushidomartialarts said:
			
		

> Back when I was bouncing, my favorite move was to keep the guy talking while the rest of my team came up behind him. Even really big, really drunk guys tend to go quietly when there's a half-dozen guys surrounding him.


 
He used our little hottie bartender as a distraction.. She would to walk up and ask "Is there a problem here?" and while they were staring my crew would sneak up on the trouble makers...


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## Em MacIntosh (Aug 3, 2007)

Drac said:


> He used our little hottie bartender as a distraction.. She would to walk up and ask "Is there a problem here?" and while they were staring my crew would sneak up on the trouble makers...


 
That was you!!!  LOL.  Judo or jiu jitsu, learn some good restraining holds.  You can get knees in too, they don't have to be hard just hard enough to make him go "oof!" every time he tries to draw a breath.  If necessary, Judo is great considering there's a sea of pavement if things get really hairy and everybody has made a good point about judo's standing game which is paramount when having your center of balance tugged this way and that.


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## FieldDiscipline (Aug 18, 2007)

What is Judo like for arm/wrist locks?  I'm considering looking into this sort of thing and I favour judo, but I really want some good locks too.


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## Drac (Aug 18, 2007)

FieldDiscipline said:


> What is Judo like for arm/wrist locks? I'm considering looking into this sort of thing and I favour judo, but I really want some good locks too.


 
For great joint locks/ arm locks and arm bars look into Hapkido, either the traditional discipline or the newer Combat Hapkido...


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## FieldDiscipline (Aug 19, 2007)

That is what I would prefer, esp. as being a TKD man, however there are no Hapkido classes that I can find in my area.


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## Drac (Aug 19, 2007)

FieldDiscipline said:


> That is what I would prefer, esp. as being a TKD man, however there are no Hapkido classes that I can find in my area.


 
Then use what ya got..You could consider picking up a couple of instructional DVD's,  while not as good as a live teacher you will pick up a couple of techniques..Another thing to remember especially if working a rock/dance club, after about a week or two the loud music and flashing lights become normal to you, meaning they are no long a distraction..To a visitor they are a hinderence...Gives you the edge in an altercation...


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