# Marc "Animal" MacYoung



## Loki (Aug 16, 2005)

I first heard of this guy when someone linked to his website (www.nononsenseselfdefense.com). It seems like he's extremely hardcore when it comes to self-defense, but the impression I got from the site was him claiming how everything we (MAists) learn is just about useless. He wasn't really explaining how it shouldn't be, but rather how it shouldn't. I don't know about you guys, but I got a distinct "you don't know ****" vibe, intended or not.

 I know he wrote some books, which are featured at Amazon. Is anyone here familiar with him/his work and able to provide a better explanation of what he's about than he can?

 I should note that I haven't read ALL of the material on his site, so I could just be missing the point.


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## Tgace (Aug 16, 2005)

I believe his main point is that he thinks martial artists tend to assume that martial arts is the end all be all in self-defense. Martial arts are as important to self defense as a hammer is to building a house. While each is important, its only one tool. You wouldnt say "a hammer is all I need".


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## Loki (Aug 16, 2005)

Tgace said:
			
		

> I believe his main point is that he thinks martial artists tend to assume that martial arts is the end all be all in self-defense. Martial arts are as important to self defense as a hammer is to building a house. While each is important, its only one tool. You wouldnt say "a hammer is all I need".


What other tools is he suggesting? All I see is "your hammer's broken".


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## Tgace (Aug 16, 2005)

Exactly what he says on his website....

http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/self-defensetraining.htm


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## Loki (Aug 16, 2005)

From understanding, he says self-defense should be multi-layered:


> 1). _ Common sense_ - Do you even want to go there? (This point includes knowing what behaviors will put you into conflict and moral/ethical issues involved with use of force) What are the standards you must abide by?
> 
> 2)._Diplomatic _ - Do you need to hit or can you resolve this another way? In short, can you talk, negotiate or trick your way out of it? (This point also includes knowing the legal ramifications of hitting and weighing the repercussions vs. the need of the moment.)
> 
> ...



 I didn't see much more on what he deems worthy of the title of self-defense.


 How do these layers differ from what we MAists practice every day? Obviously many martial arts emphasize layers three and four, since that's their focus, the assumption you're out of options. Does emphasizing these aspects over others make MAs useless and even dangerous sometimes (I think I saw it there somewhere)?


 Also, though he may have a good point, I find his presentation of it, unfortunately, not too great. He mainly defines self-defense in terms of what it is not, which isn't a way to define something. If I say I have a knib in my room, and you ask me what it is, if I tell you it's not purple, not comprised of plastic and not transluscent, you won't have a better idea of what it is, which is essentially what the site does, though it does give a loose definition of what their knib is. But now it's like I take you to my room to show you, but my room's almost pitchblack.


 Wow, I got carried away there...


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## Tgace (Aug 16, 2005)

Rule #1 of self defense...dont go places where you are going to be attacked, dont do things that attract violence or hang out with people that do. In a nutshell thats what hes saying. What he says about martial artists is that they forget that stuff and indulge in unrealistic fantasy of what they will do in a fight and what their real chances of survival are.


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## still learning (Aug 16, 2005)

Hello, We can learn from everyone!  Even if it was just one thing.  

 Form your own opinions by reading a few of his books? I have and read most of them. (now his books are a part of my martial art library) these are keepers.

 You will find you will be able to use some of his stuffs. Not the physical defenses' but awareness side. He is just sharing some of his life experience's of his world as bouncer and bar going type of guy. (His world) most of us will not experience his type of life.

 He has written 7 books and made 4 videos so far.....He must be doing something RIGHT! and people are buying them for his knowledge that he is sharing........................Read them! .........Aloha


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## still learning (Aug 16, 2005)

Hello, Marc "animal" Macyoung has train in the martial arts and knows real fighting and the way martial arts are taught is very different.

 No rules...anything goes...rocks...bottles...friends helping you out with a bat..in a bar, alley or in the parking lot between cars..knives can be use..and so...fast and furious...........NO one can defend against a false crack ( from behind - head,back,or legs....sneak attack is only known after you feel it...

 and that is just one of the many things he is warning you about.  These people will hit you!   Most of us will believe in not fighting.....these guys love too?

 again just read his books...............Aloha


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## Knarfan (Aug 16, 2005)

Loki said:
			
		

> I first heard of this guy when someone linked to his website (www.nononsenseselfdefense.com). It seems like he's extremely hardcore when it comes to self-defense, but the impression I got from the site was him claiming how everything we (MAists) learn is just about useless. He wasn't really explaining how it shouldn't be, but rather how it shouldn't. I don't know about you guys, but I got a distinct "you don't know ****" vibe, intended or not.
> 
> I know he wrote some books, which are featured at Amazon. Is anyone here familiar with him/his work and able to provide a better explanation of what he's about than he can?
> 
> I should note that I haven't read ALL of the material on his site, so I could just be missing the point.


I know exactly what you mean, I have seen alot of Marks stuff. His personality is very aggressive & IMO is bordering on disrespectful. He can't seem to tell you somthing good without insulting someone.This is just my interpatation of him as a person & a MA. That being said, I think that you can learn alot of realistic material from this man. I still would probably collect some of his material. It's actually very good. I don't have to agree with his methods to appreciate his efforts. Besides he's probably a cool dude, I just think he goes overboard at times but, don't we all 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





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## Loki (Aug 17, 2005)

sayoc FF said:
			
		

> I know exactly what you mean, I have seen alot of Marks stuff. His personality is very aggressive & IMO is bordering on disrespectful. He can't seem to tell you somthing good without insulting someone.This is just my interpatation of him as a person & a MA. That being said, I think that you can learn alot of realistic material from this man. I still would probably collect some of his material. It's actually very good. I don't have to agree with his methods to appreciate his efforts. Besides he's probably a cool dude, I just think he goes overboard at times but, don't we all
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 I get you. Makes sense to me.

 still_learning, if all he does on his site is diss every martial art and then says "if you wanna know what actually works, read my books", that sounds like an underhanded marketing scam to me.


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## Grey Eyed Bandit (Aug 17, 2005)

My main reason for being an Animal fan is his critique aimed at "the myth of the duel". Then again, I purchased one of his knife books, and there's quite a bit of self-contradictory passages in there. As people who have frequented his web page know he isn't too appreciative of the idea of "bio-mechanical cutting", which I'm not either, but the book does encourage people to do similar antics, for example nicking an attacker once in the attacking limb while stating that they don't want to fight anymore.


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## still learning (Aug 17, 2005)

Hello, The books and videos has good information and just take the stuffs your feel will work for you.

 Marc is like his name - a animal at times, He believes lots of the martial art do not work on the streets and that is his opinion. 

   I gain alot of info's from his books.  His stuffs is only one of the many sources to learn from.  


 Still learning is just doing that- still learning...it is not a perfect world...sources of informations...comes in many forms from many people. Keep the ones you want and disguard the rest. .............Aloha


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## Don Roley (Aug 17, 2005)

sayoc FF said:
			
		

> I know exactly what you mean, I have seen alot of Marks stuff. His personality is very aggressive & IMO is bordering on disrespectful. He can't seem to tell you somthing good without insulting someone.



But he never mentions anyone by name. He does talk about a lot of bad things he sees being peddled as self defense, but some of that stuff will get you killed!

As for martial arts- Marc still studies martial arts. He is just saying that the typical stuff you learn in most martial arts dojos do not prepare you for the street. Most dojos I have seen seem to think that if you can punch and kick ok then you will be set for the street. They do not talk about awareness, avoidence, de- escalating, legal consequences, etc. More have started now, but two decades ago I can tell you that there was very little on subjects like what to tell the police when they get to the scene of the fight.

Mind you- I will point out that maybe I am a bit biased towards him since I have been out to see him. He has picked me up at the airport and let me crash on his couch. I would not make the trip out to see him if I did not think his stuff was of value.


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## MJS (Aug 17, 2005)

Don Roley said:
			
		

> But he never mentions anyone by name. He does talk about a lot of bad things he sees being peddled as self defense, but some of that stuff will get you killed!
> 
> As for martial arts- Marc still studies martial arts. He is just saying that the typical stuff you learn in most martial arts dojos do not prepare you for the street. Most dojos I have seen seem to think that if you can punch and kick ok then you will be set for the street. They do not talk about awareness, avoidence, de- escalating, legal consequences, etc. More have started now, but two decades ago I can tell you that there was very little on subjects like what to tell the police when they get to the scene of the fight.
> 
> Mind you- I will point out that maybe I am a bit biased towards him since I have been out to see him. He has picked me up at the airport and let me crash on his couch. I would not make the trip out to see him if I did not think his stuff was of value.



Don is right on the money with this post!!  I've looked at a few of Marcs' books and I was very impressed with what I saw.  Yeah, he may come off with that 'cocky' attitude, but IMO, its not that he's saying that he is the best, he is simply separating the fluff from the meat, so to speak.  It is a fact that there are many things that are taught that, IMHO, if were done on the street, would most likely get the person doing them into a world of hurt.  

Don also brought up another good point on something that Marc does, as well as some of the other RBSD guys, and that being talking about awareness, the legal aspect, etc.  These are key things that are often left out of many MA programs.

I highly reccommend Marcs material to anyone who is serious about learning what a street fight is really like.

Mike


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## Knarfan (Aug 17, 2005)

Don Roley said:
			
		

> But he never mentions anyone by name. He does talk about a lot of bad things he sees being peddled as self defense, but some of that stuff will get you killed!
> 
> As for martial arts- Marc still studies martial arts. He is just saying that the typical stuff you learn in most martial arts dojos do not prepare you for the street. Most dojos I have seen seem to think that if you can punch and kick ok then you will be set for the street. They do not talk about awareness, avoidence, de- escalating, legal consequences, etc. More have started now, but two decades ago I can tell you that there was very little on subjects like what to tell the police when they get to the scene of the fight.
> 
> Mind you- I will point out that maybe I am a bit biased towards him since I have been out to see him. He has picked me up at the airport and let me crash on his couch. I would not make the trip out to see him if I did not think his stuff was of value.


Hi Don,
I don't think that you are at all biased toward Marc. I think that you are giving your honest accounts of your experiances & interactions with him.You bring up good points, Marc is known for & respected for all of the things that you said. I have a couple of marks videos & I have watched them more them once. I like most of his message but, I don't need to be reminded of all of the short comings of other MA. I know that he probably has to make comparisons to make his point I just don't think he needs to push it so hard. The thread starter never even heard of him & that was his first impression & I have to agree. That being said, I think he has a valuble message & I recommend his material, it's good. As a matter of fact, Today on our Sayoc Kali members site someone posted a link that had a very interesting article of a phone conversation between Mark MacYoung & Mike Jaco, who happens to be one of the highest decorated Navy Seals in U.S. history. Mike is also a Sayoc member. Mark came off very well in that conversation, mostly they talked about fear & de-escalation among other things. It was very interesting & very imformative. I acually thought about posting the link on this thread but, I have to clear it on my end. Anyway I guess everybody has their angle you can't be to quick to judge. Besides anybody that picks you up at the airport & lets you crash on their couch can't be all bad 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Like I said, probably a cool dude.


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