# 1st Wing Chun class in a long time



## Hagakure (Feb 10, 2009)

Hey guys,

I had my first WC class in a good 18 months last night. What amazed me was how none of it had gone, how it seemed so natural. The stance, the moves, all very simple, all very direct.

My Sifu was pleased to see me, he's a really nice guy, good teacher, humble, knows when to train, knows when to add an anecdote to relieve the training session etc. Had a good warm up, chain punching, press-ups and stomach crunches galore. We're encouraged to get together as a group and do our own training prior to his arrival, so we don't use so much time during official class time.

We did a few basic drills, not much pak-ing, no pad work last night (phew - ). Came to lap sau, and although I remembered the positioning, just, my drill was all over the place. Any tips/suggestions?

This morning I'm pleased to report that I feel pretty good. A little achey, but in a positive way. One thing I noticed is that I felt so invigorated when I got home last night, I didn't get a moments sleep, lay there all night until the wifes alarm clock went off. That. Wasn't so good.

Who else has had a recent 1st time or 1st time back to WC class, and how did it go for you?


H


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## bully (Feb 10, 2009)

Had my first one for 12 years last year.

Oh how it hurt.

On a more positive note....

My play sparring was ok and bong/tan was still there. Aim was a little off as was footwork.

Dan chi sao was awful as was most other drills. My legs burned as did my shoulders.

I had to stop after 3 months as the guy teaching stopped and my back gave up. Had an op on my back 7 months ago and have been using WC as recovery....but mostly doing drills and messing around on my dummy.

Classes are due to restart any day with a different guy, I am waiting for a text. If they dont then I dont know what to do. In the mean time I have been circuit training which incorparates some Karate kicks, block and punches (Dan grade guy takes the class before he teaches Karate!! Mega fit). When he isnt looking I slip into WC punches, and bongs etc where ever I can.

Enjoy your training and the fact you have someone to train you.

Keep us posted with your progress.


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## Hagakure (Feb 10, 2009)

bully said:


> Had my first one for 12 years last year.
> 
> Oh how it hurt.
> 
> ...


 
Hey, sorry to hear about the disruption to your training, it must be damned frustrating?!? I think any training is better than none, so having access and the knowledge to be able to use a wooden dummy is better than nothing I guess?

Is there only one WC class in your area? I'm lucky, I've a couple of classes in jujutsu/karate local to me, so I have alternatives if I couldn't go to WC. That said, it's WC or bust for me.  

I'm starting jujustu this Thursday, so will see how that blends with the WC. Will be good to use my WC on them...  Kidding.

Cheers Bully, hope you get it sorted mate.

H


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## Yoshiyahu (Feb 11, 2009)

I tried another WC school Last year. Just to see what it would be like. It was pretty cool. They did both Hung Gar and WC. The WC drills were pretty easy since I practice WC alot. But I havent really been practicing the Hung Gar like I did in High school I mostly concentrate on WC and lately been learning Tai Chi while expanding my WC. But the killer was the hung gar stances. I was pretty cool in cat stance and hanging horse stance. What got me was trying to hold a really low horse stance for ten minutes. I now only practice it low for two to three minutes so I can have time to practice everything else. So holding it for ten minutes with one iron ring on my arm started taking a toll. But the Horse stance I was cool with. I actually totally stop practicing crossing horse and holding it for years. That stance had my legs aching. But I refuse to give up. Now it was funny because the seniors in the class legs were shaking...they were coming up out that high stance...an they had a look of angony on their faces. I am out practice on the hung gar stuff. But I wasnt in that much pain. An if I had been going to school three nights a week along with practicing at home on my own after about two months holding each stance for ten to twenty minutes wouldnt be bad at all.

But I felt ashamed that I let my self get that weak in my legs...I have been working more on root in Hung Gar stances lately too.


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## Hagakure (Feb 12, 2009)

Yoshiyahu said:


> I tried another WC school Last year. Just to see what it would be like. It was pretty cool. They did both Hung Gar and WC. The WC drills were pretty easy since I practice WC alot. But I havent really been practicing the Hung Gar like I did in High school I mostly concentrate on WC and lately been learning Tai Chi while expanding my WC. But the killer was the hung gar stances. I was pretty cool in cat stance and hanging horse stance. What got me was trying to hold a really low horse stance for ten minutes. I now only practice it low for two to three minutes so I can have time to practice everything else. So holding it for ten minutes with one iron ring on my arm started taking a toll. But the Horse stance I was cool with. I actually totally stop practicing crossing horse and holding it for years. That stance had my legs aching. But I refuse to give up. Now it was funny because the seniors in the class legs were shaking...they were coming up out that high stance...an they had a look of angony on their faces. I am out practice on the hung gar stuff. But I wasnt in that much pain. An if I had been going to school three nights a week along with practicing at home on my own after about two months holding each stance for ten to twenty minutes wouldnt be bad at all.
> 
> But I felt ashamed that I let my self get that weak in my legs...I have been working more on root in Hung Gar stances lately too.


 
I fancied having a go at other KF styles, there are very few near me though. So, WC it is. I was training my legs the other night, and boy oh boy are they sore now. We do, as part of our warm up, a sit down rowing type exercise, which is a total killer after crunches and pressups.


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## Yoshiyahu (Feb 12, 2009)

After awhile your body will adjust an you will have to add more reps to get the same feel!!!!




Hagakure said:


> I fancied having a go at other KF styles, there are very few near me though. So, WC it is. I was training my legs the other night, and boy oh boy are they sore now. We do, as part of our warm up, a sit down rowing type exercise, which is a total killer after crunches and pressups.


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## Hagakure (Feb 13, 2009)

Yoshiyahu said:


> After awhile your body will adjust an you will have to add more reps to get the same feel!!!!


 
 Yep, tell me about it. That's happening already. I was doing the same reps as I was a week or two ago last night, and it little affect, so had to increase them. Thing is, I like the burn, it's a good pain. Does that make me odd?


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## geezer (Feb 13, 2009)

Hagakure said:


> I fancied having a go at other KF styles, there are very few near me though. So, WC it is...


 
Everybody wants to train several styles. Assuming you've got the time. money and energy (which frankly, I don't), how would you keep them all straight in your head? I mean, isn't the beauty of WC/WT its _simplicity? _

Unlike its more complicated cousins among the Southern Chinese "short-bridge" systems (Fukien white crane, pak mei, hakka, etc.) WC/WT has paired down it's techniques and forms to the essentials so that you can learn it relatively quickly, and apply it instinctively and automatically. Now I support the concept of _functional crosstraining_ and would like to gain a working knowledge of practical arts that are distinct in focus and complement WC/WT (such as BJJ). But on the other hand, wouldn't trying to learn other _overlapping_ Kung fu systems be counterproductive?


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## Hagakure (Feb 13, 2009)

geezer said:


> Everybody wants to train several styles. Assuming you've got the time. money and energy (which frankly, I don't), how would you keep them all straight in your head? I mean, isn't the beauty of WC/WT its _simplicity? _
> 
> Unlike its more complicated cousins among the Southern Chinese "short-bridge" systems (Fukien white crane, pak mei, hakka, etc.) WC/WT has paired down it's techniques and forms to the essentials so that you can learn it relatively quickly, and apply it instinctively and automatically. Now I support the concept of _functional crosstraining_ and would like to gain a working knowledge of practical arts that are distinct in focus and complement WC/WT (such as BJJ). But on the other hand, wouldn't trying to learn other _overlapping_ Kung fu systems be counterproductive?


 
I think it's more a question of experiencing them and seeing whether anything could be taken from them, perhaps _adding_ to my Wing Chun? I don't see why, if Wing Chun is so simple, which I agree, it is, that there'd be anything to confuse? Something to dabble in I should say? I guess it's only counterproductive in learning different styles of KF, if you see it as such. I don't.  I think the point I made about having a go at KF styles was also prior to my starting in WC.

Your first point though, I totally agree with, I have neither the time or the money to do this, so, as I said, Wing Chun is perfect for me.


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## Yoshiyahu (Feb 13, 2009)

Ha Ha...I think to keep challenging your self an making your self push pass your limit will only make you better.




Hagakure said:


> Yep, tell me about it. That's happening already. I was doing the same reps as I was a week or two ago last night, and it little affect, so had to increase them. Thing is, I like the burn, it's a good pain. Does that make me odd?


 
I think training two Kung Fu styles could be beneficial. For instance you have both the hardness of Hung Gar and sensitivity of WC working for you. That could be a major benefit. Or what about Crossing traing Long Fist and WC. So you have both close range and long range fightingt tactics that you can use to make it hard for a skilled fighter to adjust. I personally don't like BJJ so cross training BJJ or any western martial art wouldnt work for me. Because I would have no interest or desire. But training another style like Crane or Snake would benefit my WC in the long run. I might have over night benefits but in years to come training a second art would strengthen my Wing Chun. Because I would have other techniques to use against a fighter. I could masked my WC using another style first. An when the opponent is in clinch range I use my Wing Chun to end the fight quickly. 

So I see great benefits in cross training other styles. My Sifu used to study Tiger and Crane long before he learn WC. He told me its great to have second Kung Fu style to complement your WC like Tai Chi or Choy li Fut. He even said once TKD also compliments Wing Chun really well.  You just have to adjust the TKD for street fighting. But if you been sparring and training basics long enough converting TKD into a combat style shouldnt be to hard. If you study, take notes and practice.

*geezer said *


> Everybody wants to train several styles. Assuming you've got the time. money and energy (which frankly, I don't), how would you keep them all straight in your head? I mean, isn't the beauty of WC/WT its _simplicity? _
> 
> Unlike its more complicated cousins among the Southern Chinese "short-bridge" systems (Fukien white crane, pak mei, hakka, etc.) WC/WT has paired down it's techniques and forms to the essentials so that you can learn it relatively quickly, and apply it instinctively and automatically. Now I support the concept of _functional crosstraining_ and would like to gain a working knowledge of practical arts that are distinct in focus and complement WC/WT (such as BJJ). But on the other hand, wouldn't trying to learn other _overlapping_ Kung fu systems be counterproductive?


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## qwksilver61 (Feb 15, 2009)

Coming out of traditional Tae Kwon Do years before I had to un-learn hard power and learn relaxation,the two did not mix.GGM Leung Tings Wing Tsun, 
Sifu Emins EBMAS are all about relaxing and building on springy flexible power
any hard forceable tension equals defeat,just ask one of the senior students or an instructor.Working in a machine shop makes it somewhat difficult for me
so I had to figure out how to rid myself of tension,I discovered that while practicing the tension was in my mind,true where the mind goes the body will follow.Ask Geezer about the extensors and contractors,I'm sure he will be more than glad to help you in this one.No I would not recommend training hard style and spring style.Two cents......


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## Yoshiyahu (Feb 17, 2009)

Why do you think it would be bad to crosstrain a hard style with soft style?

Wouldn't combining both be a benefit?




qwksilver61 said:


> Coming out of traditional Tae Kwon Do years before I had to un-learn hard power and learn relaxation,the two did not mix.GGM Leung Tings Wing Tsun,
> Sifu Emins EBMAS are all about relaxing and building on springy flexible power
> any hard forceable tension equals defeat,just ask one of the senior students or an instructor.Working in a machine shop makes it somewhat difficult for me
> so I had to figure out how to rid myself of tension,I discovered that while practicing the tension was in my mind,true where the mind goes the body will follow.Ask Geezer about the extensors and contractors,I'm sure he will be more than glad to help you in this one.No I would not recommend training hard style and spring style.Two cents......


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## AceHBK (Feb 18, 2009)

Hagakure - So how are things going so far for you?


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## Yoshiyahu (Feb 19, 2009)

Is hakura there...where has it gone?


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## Hagakure (Feb 20, 2009)

Sorry guys, I've just spent the last week (nearly) away doing some graduate training with my company. Only got back late last night (UK time).

I'm off to my second class on Monday, as I was unable to train this week due to being away. That said, the hotel we stayed in had a great full length mirror, and, I'd be lying if I said there weren't a few occassions that I performed the SLT all the way through. 

I'm now full of aches and pains of all the practical leadership tests we did, and the early morning physical training. Feeling ready to go though for this Monday, have planned to cross train in JJJ over the next fortnight. The class I've found incorporates some decent amount of grappling and knife defences etc, and isn't too flashy or impractical as one particular JJJ class I trained years ago.


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## Yoshiyahu (Feb 20, 2009)

Sounds like fun...enjoy your class. Sorry to hear about your forced haitus. Ha ha...welcome back Hagakaru!






Hagakure said:


> Sorry guys, I've just spent the last week (nearly) away doing some graduate training with my company. Only got back late last night (UK time).
> 
> I'm off to my second class on Monday, as I was unable to train this week due to being away. That said, the hotel we stayed in had a great full length mirror, and, I'd be lying if I said there weren't a few occassions that I performed the SLT all the way through.
> 
> I'm now full of aches and pains of all the practical leadership tests we did, and the early morning physical training. Feeling ready to go though for this Monday, have planned to cross train in JJJ over the next fortnight. The class I've found incorporates some decent amount of grappling and knife defences etc, and isn't too flashy or impractical as one particular JJJ class I trained years ago.


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## bully (Feb 22, 2009)

I thought I was the only sad one on here.

Just got back from a weeks holiday in Cyprus...

Walking through Gatwick North with my luggage doing Huen Sau's until my wife asked me what I was doing...didnt even realise I was doing it.

Hotel had a pretty good gym so to cool down from cardio sessions after stretching I practiced SLT, got a few strange looks from the locals but hey they wont ever see me again...right??

Even got a few chain punch sessions in.

Nice to be back to the dreary weather.


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## Yoshiyahu (Feb 23, 2009)

Great, Sounds like a cool work out. Too bad the they didn't have a punching bag.


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## Hagakure (Feb 24, 2009)

Well, I went last night, and boooy am I bruised this morning.

Doing some soft tan's as blocks, and I caught my training partner beautifully, but seem to have picked up a lump/bruise on the fleshy side part of my left hand. 

Loved it. Last night was intense. Full on attacks, got caught in the face by my training partner, who's quite a large chap. Bigger than me anyway. I'm 6'3" and around 205 pounds, so I was chuffed when we were doing attack defend drills. The drill was, one attacked, one defended, the attacker could use a hook/haymaker type punch, from any range, and we had to block and counter. The added spice was that the attacker didn't have to declare which arm was being used. Sifu came round and stayed with everyone for a few minutes and made sure that the attacks were full pelt. So... That was interesting. 

Spent more time going over SLT last night too, we had a very intense class that ended with around 5-10 minutes of SLT, which as I've mentioned on other threads, is unusual for us. A great end to a great session.

H


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## mook jong man (Feb 24, 2009)

Hagakure said:


> Well, I went last night, and boooy am I bruised this morning.
> 
> Doing some soft tan's as blocks, and I caught my training partner beautifully, but seem to have picked up a lump/bruise on the fleshy side part of my left hand.
> 
> ...


 
Did the attackers have arm pads on mate , I found in the past that partners if they haven't got arm protection on will do the first attack at full pelt and then each successive strike will be softer and softer because their sick of getting there arm hurt .

 So when we really wanted to pressure test the integrity of a deflection we'd get the partner to put two arm pads on one arm and then he could wail away as hard as he could . 

It really honed your concentration skills too because you knew if you messed up the deflection you were likely to get your head taken off , but it also did a lot for your confidence knowing that your deflections could withstand that much force without collapsing .


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## Hagakure (Feb 24, 2009)

mook jong man said:


> Did the attackers have arm pads on mate , I found in the past that partners if they haven't got arm protection on will do the first attack at full pelt and then each successive strike will be softer and softer because their sick of getting there arm hurt .
> 
> So when we really wanted to pressure test the integrity of a deflection we'd get the partner to put two arm pads on one arm and then he could wail away as hard as he could .
> 
> It really honed your concentration skills too because you knew if you messed up the deflection you were likely to get your head taken off , but it also did a lot for your confidence knowing that your deflections could withstand that much force without collapsing .


 
No mate, he didn't. No padding at all. Full pelt from the off. As you say, it concentrates the mind, and I did get caught towards the end, but like a flipping trooper I kept going.  

He came in 100% force at first, but we both found it more painful being the attacker. It's amazing how much force you can stop with a tan. I thought it was baloney, but having had a big, big bloke attack at full force, using random arms, I'm fairly happy it works. 

The end result is that I've had a full body work out, have re-aquainted myself with being in a CQB full on fists environment, and minus a few bruises/sore bits, am still here today. Keep ramping that training up, and we're there.


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## Yoshiyahu (Feb 25, 2009)

I went to a Yip man school in the next town out here. It was pretty cool. I was paired up with this shorty cocky guy. He was using alot of force. Anyway I guess the guys pride was too much because we were doing Three star blocking and hard partner punches for thirty minutes almost. He was going extremely hard doing partner punching. I tried to spare his arms But his sifu told me to his arms like rock. So when I did several minutes later his arms were blistering red. He got some dit da jow. I did too just to be humble. But his arms were blistered man. Mines weren't even affected. lol....I think this guy has been training for a long while because he seem to be somewhat of senior student.





Hagakure said:


> No mate, he didn't. No padding at all. Full pelt from the off. As you say, it concentrates the mind, and I did get caught towards the end, but like a flipping trooper I kept going.
> 
> He came in 100% force at first, but we both found it more painful being the attacker. It's amazing how much force you can stop with a tan. I thought it was baloney, but having had a big, big bloke attack at full force, using random arms, I'm fairly happy it works.
> 
> The end result is that I've had a full body work out, have re-aquainted myself with being in a CQB full on fists environment, and minus a few bruises/sore bits, am still here today. Keep ramping that training up, and we're there.


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## Hagakure (Mar 5, 2009)

Yoshiyahu said:


> I went to a Yip man school in the next town out here. It was pretty cool. I was paired up with this shorty cocky guy. He was using alot of force. Anyway I guess the guys pride was too much because we were doing Three star blocking and hard partner punches for thirty minutes almost. He was going extremely hard doing partner punching. I tried to spare his arms But his sifu told me to his arms like rock. So when I did several minutes later his arms were blistering red. He got some dit da jow. I did too just to be humble. But his arms were blistered man. Mines weren't even affected. lol....I think this guy has been training for a long while because he seem to be somewhat of senior student.


 
I've just purchased some new DDJ, as I'd run out of my old supplies. Will need it for my coming class. I'm still covered in bruises from 2 weeks ago. Arms, chest, chin, hands. It's great to carry them as badges, but as an IT professional (allegedly) it's not the done thing to come in working with clients looking as though one's spent the previous evening in a bar brawl!

Say, where is Yoshi? Has he put his foot in it one too many times? :S


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## Nabakatsu (Mar 5, 2009)

Chuckle, my first night doing lap sau for 30 mns, I ended up with both of my arms from wrist to elbow COMPLETELY BRUISED, my mother and sister thought they could keep me from ever going back, I wish I had pictures, they faded within a week oddly enough, I was quite fond of them actually


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## mook jong man (Mar 5, 2009)

Hagakure said:


> I've just purchased some new DDJ, as I'd run out of my old supplies. Will need it for my coming class. I'm still covered in bruises from 2 weeks ago. Arms, chest, chin, hands. It's great to carry them as badges, but as an IT professional (allegedly) it's not the done thing to come in working with clients looking as though one's spent the previous evening in a bar brawl!
> 
> Say, where is Yoshi? Has he put his foot in it one too many times? :S


 
I teach my wife sometimes and she is Japanese with really soft skin , I mean you just look at her and she bruises. She goes into work the next morning with bruises all up her arms and the ladies in her office think I'm a wife basher or something. 
Yeah Yoshi got banned mate , shame really ,the bloke was good for a laugh.


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## Nabakatsu (Mar 5, 2009)

I'm sorry to be off topic.. but what?! I had no idea yoshi was banned.. that sucks, I really enjoyed his input :/


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## bully (Jun 29, 2009)

Had my first WC class in ages tonight.

Found 3 guys who are training together and joined them.

Enjoyed it as it was very relaxed, not too relaxed but just enough.

Done lots of basics and now there are 4 pairing up is easier with no one standing around.

They seemed to think I was ok...as I am the outsider...but this place being very small I knew one of them.

Done a warm up, press ups (god they hurt) and LOTS of chain punches.

Then drills, and basic dan chi sau.

The guy showing us (he doesnt claim to be a teacher) is good, and tbh its better then nothing. 

We finished with a nice slow first form, and god did I sweat.

Looking forward to next week and they are going to try and do another night if possible.

What I should do is print out all of MJM's training idea posts...or a nice admin could sticky them at the top of the page if MJM wouldnt mind??

Cheers

Bully


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## Tensei85 (Jun 29, 2009)

bully said:


> Had my first WC class in ages tonight.
> 
> Found 3 guys who are training together and joined them.
> 
> ...




That's awesome! I always loved exchanges like that, unfortunately it doesn't happen near enough. I guess politics, bs etc...

But that's one of the reasons why I enjoyed the Wing Chun Friendship Gathering's so much in the past. 

We can all learn something from each other regardless of lineage or style. 

Good luck with training


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## mook jong man (Jun 30, 2009)

bully said:


> Had my first WC class in ages tonight.
> 
> Found 3 guys who are training together and joined them.
> 
> ...


 
Thats great you got the training sorted , nothing bloody worse than wanting to train and having no one to train with.

Any training info I put on here you can do with as you wish , thats why I put it up , so the Chunners on here could use it as a supplement to their training.

But if I see a boxed set of DVD's coming out titled Bully's Secret Combat Wing Chun Training Drills then I will have to insist on my cut of the profits lol.


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## bully (Jun 30, 2009)

Lol, cheers MJM...the only things Im good at are eating and drinking...so maybe Bullys recipe book or a beer tasting DVD


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## Domino (Jun 30, 2009)

Thats great your training again !
After a couple of weeks off through bereavement, we had a couple beginners in class, so went over the basics, 4 windows, terms and techniques, always enjoy.


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## TinTin_57 (Jul 3, 2009)

Speaking of bruising....Domino, how's the chest bruising coming along? How dare your training partner take it out on you in such a fashion? Ahem (cough)


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## Domino (Jul 14, 2009)

TinTin_57 said:


> Speaking of bruising....Domino, how's the chest bruising coming along? How dare your training partner take it out on you in such a fashion? Ahem (cough)


hahaha I remember that but thats ok mayn !
Sifu was striking there explaining something tonight, nice


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