# All about Ginseng



## Zepp (Sep 10, 2004)

For a few months now, I've been taking Asian/panax ginseng on a daily basis in an attempt to increase my physical energy, mental alertness, and motivational drive.  The little bit of research I've done on ginseng has mostly given me information about its possible benefits, but I've been unable to find anything negative on it.  Like many herbal supplements and remedies, there hasn't been much scientific research done on ginseng's effects.

I'm interested in reading any information any of you have regarding ginseng, personal anecdotes included.  Is there a con to taking ginseng in the long-term?  What happens if you were to take too much at one time?  (Please don't just post links to random websites you found from a search engine.  Unless you know for a fact that it has more thorough information than all the rest.)

If you know of a published study on ginseng, even if it's in a journal that we can't access from our home computers, please let me know.  (I have access to a university library.)

I'm also interested in how ginseng interacts with our bodies at a biochemical level, if anyone knows.


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## TigerWoman (Sep 10, 2004)

Zepp, you didn't say if it was working for you.  Have you noticed an increase in energy or is your energy level about the same?  I guess it would depend if your nutrition, sleep etc. was the same too.  I am interested in taking it too just never got around to it.  I think Gary Crawford mentioned he was taking "liquid gingseng and royal honey" for a preworkout meal component. I haven't seen anything negative in my Health mag, Mayo newsletter or this other letter I get. TW


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## Marginal (Sep 10, 2004)

Ginseng acts as a blood thinner. It can cause problems similar to what any other blood thinner can cause if too much is ingested at one time. (Lots of people try to combine the "natural" with the medical RX drugs that accomplish the same thing and end up in the hospital etc.)


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## Zepp (Sep 10, 2004)

TigerWoman said:
			
		

> Zepp, you didn't say if it was working for you.  Have you noticed an increase in energy or is your energy level about the same?



You're right, I should have said.  On a physical level, I have noticed a bit of an improvement in overall energy since I began taking it, but I can't be ceratin it's the ginseng.  It could just be the fact that's it's summer (I'm not a winter person).  So far, I haven't noticed any improvement in motivation (which is what I really could use a magic pill for).

I should also mention dosage.  Originally I began taking 100 mg capsules that contained "7% ginsenosides," once a day.  Since I didn't seem to notice much of an effect after a couple weeks, I started taking it twice a day, but that didn't seem make a difference, so I just went back to one.  After about a month I started to be slightly more energetic.  About a month ago, I started taking more expensive 100 mg capsules that contained "25% ginsenosides."  These have had a marginally more noticeable affect on my energy level, and possibly my mental alertness.

Someone once told me that ginseng has to "build-up" in your system for a while to get the most effect.  Anyone know if there's any truth to that?


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## Zepp (Sep 10, 2004)

Marginal said:
			
		

> Ginseng acts as a blood thinner. It can cause problems similar to what any other blood thinner can cause if too much is ingested at one time. (Lots of people try to combine the "natural" with the medical RX drugs that accomplish the same thing and end up in the hospital etc.)


Good to know.  Would you happen to know if it also inhibits inflammation?


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## TigerWoman (Sep 10, 2004)

MSM inhibits inflammation, if you didn't already know. I take it with Glucosamine for my knees. TW


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## MikeMartial (Sep 10, 2004)

Anecdotal:


  I've taken it on and off, with _MAYBE_ an increase in general energy levels.  Never anything I could actually put my finger on, more of a hindsight observation when I've stopped.

As you have probably read, there's some positive result studies, citing increased energy, immunity, etc.  And then there's some that have shown zero changes.

I've known a few who swear by it, by I have to wonder how much of a placebo effect happens.


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## TonyM. (Sep 11, 2004)

Ginseng should not be used on a daily basis. As a general tonic it needs to be balanced with other herbs. General tonics should not be used unless one is recovering from illness or injury. Continued use of ginseng in males under 40 will reduce its effectiveness for when you really need it.


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## Marginal (Sep 11, 2004)

http://www.annals.org/cgi/content/full/136/1/42

Covers a few of the more popular herbals...



> Ginseng has been used for its alleged sedative, hypnotic, demulcent, aphrodisiac, antidepressant, and diuretic activity. It is often recommended to improve stamina, concentration, vigilance, and well-being (31). The pharmacologic activities of P. ginseng range from stimulation of the central nervous system to modulation of the immune system and anabolic effects (15). Panax ginseng has also been shown to accelerate hepatic lipogenesis and increase glycogen storage (42), which could contribute to an antidiabetic effect. The pharmacologic properties of Siberian ginseng are less well studied but are claimed to be similar to those of P. ginseng (15) (Table 2).
> 
> Efficacy
> 
> ...


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## Zepp (Sep 12, 2004)

Thank you Marginal, that's a good one.  I was unaware that ginseng was a diuretic.  That makes me wonder if it's really more like caffeine than I thought.


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## Marginal (Sep 12, 2004)

Depends on how much slogging and medical terminology you can stand, but www.pubmed.com is an excellent resource.


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## Kenpodoc (Sep 12, 2004)

Zepp said:
			
		

> For a few months now, I've been taking Asian/panax ginseng on a daily basis in an attempt to increase my physical energy, mental alertness, and motivational drive.  The little bit of research I've done on ginseng has mostly given me information about its possible benefits, but I've been unable to find anything negative on it.  Like many herbal supplements and remedies, there hasn't been much scientific research done on ginseng's effects.
> 
> I'm interested in reading any information any of you have regarding ginseng, personal anecdotes included.  Is there a con to taking ginseng in the long-term?  What happens if you were to take too much at one time?  (Please don't just post links to random websites you found from a search engine.  Unless you know for a fact that it has more thorough information than all the rest.)
> 
> ...


Be careful looking for substances to improve energy, alertness and drive.  This is best done in ternally and by evaluating your life style. (do you get enough sleep,, do you like your job, etc.)  

I doubt that Ginseng does any of the above because in general drugs that provide the benefits that you are seeking are addictive.  I've seen no evidence of addiction with ginseng in my patients.  The few small controlled studies done have not shown significant benefit.  I've seen no evidence that it is harmful but the herbal industry does not always put the substance in the bottle that is listed on the label.  Buyer beware.  Adequate sleep, appropriate friendships, exercise and a diet of moderation frequently provide what you are looking for.

Jeff


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## Zepp (Sep 12, 2004)

Kenpodoc said:
			
		

> Adequate sleep, appropriate friendships, exercise and a diet of moderation frequently provide what you are looking for.



Duly noted.  However, sometimes even a balanced lifestyle doesn't keep everything in our minds and bodies chemically balanced.  Because of the lack of information on ginseng's negative effects, I decided it harmless enough to give it a try.  Now, after some of the information I've seen here, I think I'll be taking it less frequently.

Keep it comin' folks.


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## Kembudo-Kai Kempoka (Sep 14, 2004)

Westerners have a horrible habit of taking Asian herbs -- used in combinations that mediate and accentuate various aspects of the effects of the major/emperor herbs in the combination -- then taking them singly.  Ma-huang is an excellent example....only taken in TCM in combination with other mediating and synergistic herbs, and then, mainly to release the exterior and expel damp/wind/chill toxins.

Renshen should also only be taken in combination with mediating synergists, or as prescribed by an Oriental Medical Doctor for specific chi deficiency disorders, or to guide accompanying herbs to the appropriate meridians.

Look what happens when people take mahuang incorrectly, for extended periods of time. Bad things. Likewise, ginsenosides act in the body much the way caffine, nicotine, and other corticosteroid precursors do. The initial effect is increased physiologic energy, due to the elevated nervous system activity associated with the "flight or fight" response. Prolonged residency in this state -- either naturally through stress, or unaturally through upper abuse -- leads to increased resting cortisol levels, which inhibits parasympathetic house-keeping functions, and promotes inflammatory cellular bioterrains...the demon of inflammation.  Not the only thing that causes it, but certainly an avoidable contributor.

D.


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## lhommedieu (Sep 14, 2004)

Kembudo-Kai Kempoka said:
			
		

> Westerners have a horrible habit of taking Asian herbs -- used in combinations that mediate and accentuate various aspects of the effects of the major/emperor herbs in the combination -- then taking them singly.  Ma-huang is an excellent example....only taken in TCM in combination with other mediating and synergistic herbs, and then, mainly to release the exterior and expel damp/wind/chill toxins.
> 
> Renshen should also only be taken in combination with mediating synergists, or as prescribed by an Oriental Medical Doctor for specific chi deficiency disorders, or to guide accompanying herbs to the appropriate meridians.
> 
> ...



Agreed.  Ren Shen (Ginseng) is a "warming" herb that is nearly always prescribed in combination with other herbs that mediate its properties - and is appropriate only for specific types of Chinese medical patterns.  There is only a certain percentage of Western patients who exhibit these patterns and Ginseng is totally inappropriate for the majority of individuals who decide (as a result of their contact with advertising and marketing strategies) that they "need" Ginseng to feel better.  Cutting down on caffeine, improving diet, and building up sleep over time is a far better way to develop energy.

Best,

Steve Lamade


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## Kenpodoc (Sep 14, 2004)

Zepp said:
			
		

> Duly noted.  However, sometimes even a balanced lifestyle doesn't keep everything in our minds and bodies chemically balanced.  Because of the lack of information on ginseng's negative effects, I decided it harmless enough to give it a try.  Now, after some of the information I've seen here, I think I'll be taking it less frequently.
> 
> Keep it comin' folks.


I still don't know what "chemically balanced" means but I'm sure that a pill or herb won't achieve it.  One thing that medical practice continually reinforces is that the body is far better at achieving "balance" on its own.  When I monkey with things they often get worse.  My most successful patients don't expect to be comfortable every day or energetic.  They just get up and do what they have to do.  They pay attention to their bodies but don't let minor aches pains and malaise stop them from living and enjoying life.

Jeff


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## Kembudo-Kai Kempoka (Sep 14, 2004)

lhommedieu said:
			
		

> Agreed. Ren Shen (Ginseng) is a "warming" herb that is nearly always prescribed in combination with other herbs that mediate its properties - and is appropriate only for specific types of Chinese medical patterns. There is only a certain percentage of Western patients who exhibit these patterns and Ginseng is totally inappropriate for the majority of individuals who decide (as a result of their contact with advertising and marketing strategies) that they "need" Ginseng to feel better. Cutting down on caffeine, improving diet, and building up sleep over time is a far better way to develop energy.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Steve Lamade


Word.


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