# Creating Kata for Competition



## Stac3y (Mar 31, 2009)

Have any of you made up your own kata for competition? How did you get started? Is it better to play entirely to your strengths, or does a creative kata need to be more well-rounded? Is it better to use the whole ring? Should you always start in the middle? ....I could go on and on, as I'm trying to start this, and I'm totally flummoxed. Any advice, information, experiences, etc. will be greatly appreciated.


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## BrandonLucas (Mar 31, 2009)

I'm going out on a limb here, but why would you want to create a new form for competition?  What's wrong with traditional forms?

Is this in a seperate division for creative forms?


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## Stac3y (Mar 31, 2009)

BrandonLucas said:


> I'm going out on a limb here, but why would you want to create a new form for competition? What's wrong with traditional forms?
> 
> Is this in a seperate division for creative forms?


 
Well, I'm required to create one--it's part of our curriculum for brown belts; but I'm also thinking I could kill two birds with one stone. There are 10 traditional forms in our curriculum, after which we have to put together an original form and a weapons form.


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## Flying Crane (Mar 31, 2009)

well, I guess if you want to compete with it, you gotta look at the competition venue a bit.  What is your style?

Personally, I don't like creative kata that are full of gymnastics and all kinds of unrealistic, yet physically demanding techniques that have little combat or self-defense value, but are impressive to an audience.  Seems that is the direction that a lot of creative kata are going these days.  For myself, that kind of thing doesn't impress me.  It just turns martial arts into a performance art, and for me, that's not what it should be.  Some competitions cater to this kind of thing, kind of the "XMA" kind of thing, while others do not.

But that's my opinion.  Maybe you and/or your teachers feel differently about it.

However, I have played with creating my own kata in the past.  I simply built them out of a series of self-defense techniques found within the curriculum of our system.  Maybe you could take a series of one-steps or three-steps or something, and build them together into a kata.  Or you could build it upon a certain theme, like kicks only, or handstrikes only, or blocks only, or defenses against a particular type of attack.  Or it could be a series of your own favorite techniques, whatever those may be.


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## Andrew Green (Mar 31, 2009)

Flying Crane said:


> Personally, I don't like creative kata that are full of gymnastics and all kinds of unrealistic, yet physically demanding techniques that have little combat or self-defense value, but are impressive to an audience




Depends entirely on how it is done, Wushu stuff looks great and has a nice flow to it.  The "sport karate" with all the yelling and squealing makes my head hurt too watch...


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## Andrew Green (Mar 31, 2009)

BrandonLucas said:


> I'm going out on a limb here, but why would you want to create a new form for competition?  What's wrong with traditional forms?



Why would you want to paint your own pictures?  What's wrong with the ones painted by the renaissance masters?


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## Stac3y (Mar 31, 2009)

Flying Crane said:


> well, I guess if you want to compete with it, you gotta look at the competition venue a bit. What is your style?
> 
> Personally, I don't like creative kata that are full of gymnastics and all kinds of unrealistic, yet physically demanding techniques that have little combat or self-defense value, but are impressive to an audience. Seems that is the direction that a lot of creative kata are going these days. For myself, that kind of thing doesn't impress me. It just turns martial arts into a performance art, and for me, that's not what it should be. Some competitions cater to this kind of thing, kind of the "XMA" kind of thing, while others do not.
> 
> ...


 
My style is American Karate. I'm not a big XMA fan myself, and at age 41 I don't think I'm going to become a gymnast. Maybe in my next life. 

So I'm not looking to do anything acrobatic; rather, I want to use good techniques that work well together. Unfortunately, I can't figure out quite how to do that. Your theme suggestions might help me get started. Thanks!


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## Stac3y (Mar 31, 2009)

Andrew Green said:


> Depends entirely on how it is done, Wushu stuff looks great and has a nice flow to it. The "sport karate" with all the yelling and squealing makes my head hurt too watch...


 
What I do you would probably call sport karate. I don't yell and squeal, though; more like kiai and growl. My school actually uses audible breathing in kata and usually only 2 (sometimes 3) kiais per kata; I always have to add more vocalization for outside tournaments. I tend to use more realistic sounds though; ones that I might actually make when kicking someone in the face, for instance.


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## Stac3y (Mar 31, 2009)

Andrew Green said:


> Why would you want to paint your own pictures? What's wrong with the ones painted by the renaissance masters?


 
Picasso was good, too.


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## Flying Crane (Mar 31, 2009)

Andrew Green said:


> Depends entirely on how it is done, Wushu stuff looks great and has a nice flow to it. The "sport karate" with all the yelling and squealing makes my head hurt too watch...


 
Yeah, I don't care much for the Modern Wushu stuff either, to be honest.  It's getting to be more like a gymnastics floor routine.

Likewise, I'm also not impressed with how many capoeira groups seem to be pushing the acrobatics more and more, to the detriment of actual skill in the game.  I think it's a trend overall, and I personally don't like it.


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## Flying Crane (Mar 31, 2009)

Stac3y said:


> My style is American Karate. I'm not a big XMA fan myself, and at age 41 I don't think I'm going to become a gymnast. Maybe in my next life.
> 
> So I'm not looking to do anything acrobatic; rather, I want to use good techniques that work well together. Unfortunately, I can't figure out quite how to do that. Your theme suggestions might help me get started. Thanks!


 
You are welcome.

What is the history of your school of American Karate?  What body of forms do you folks practice?  Do they come from one of the older systems of Okinawan or Japanese or Korean bodies?  What sets your school of American Karate as different from these others?

I'm just trying to get a sense of how things might be done in your school.


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## BrandonLucas (Mar 31, 2009)

Andrew Green said:


> Why would you want to paint your own pictures? What's wrong with the ones painted by the renaissance masters?


 
As long as the pictures that are presented for others to judge on creativity aren't colored in crayon, sure, nothing wrong with that...

It all depends on the venue and the judging criteria, which is why I was asking if this is in a creative forms division.  Like FC said, typically forms that are created by the performer are XMA forms...which are useless.

But, since the OP is talking about creating a *traditional style* form, then this is different....

I think that FC pretty much has it right, anyway.  Take moves that would make sense in a step-sparring scenerio, and make them "flow" in a sense.


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## JadeDragon3 (Mar 31, 2009)

Okay, here is my opinion on the whole thing based on my experience judging forms divisions in the past at NASKA rated tournaments.  I would suggest that you have a good amount of traditional martial art moves in your form *BUT* add a some "extreme" moves in it.  I would suggest some flashy jump inside crescent kicks, butterfly twist into the full splits if you can do them, maybe an aerial, etc......  Don't over do it though on the "tricks" as they call them.  As for the traditional moves you put into your form/kata make sure they are clean and crisp when you execute them.  Also if you are having trouble with one of your "tricks" then take it out and don't do it.  Don't do it unless you can pull it off.  No sense in chancing it.  I only know of a few competitors now days that can do a *ALL* traditional form and pull off winning grand champion and that would be Luaren Kearney, Brian Ruth, and Casey Marks Nash when they do empty hand forms.  But they are perfect in execution of traditional moves.


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## Andrew Green (Mar 31, 2009)

Stac3y said:


> Picasso was good, too.




Sure it sold lots and looked good, but it lacked in "realism" and "traditional technique" :lol:

(I am well aware that he did do some very realistic looking work early on)


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## Flying Crane (Mar 31, 2009)

JadeDragon3 said:


> Okay, here is my opinion on the whole thing based on my experience judging forms divisions in the past at NASKA rated tournaments. I would suggest that you have a good amount of traditional martial art moves in your form *BUT* add a some "extreme" moves in it. I would suggest some flashy jump inside crescent kicks, butterfly twist into the full splits if you can do them, maybe an aerial, etc...... Don't over do it though on the "tricks" as they call them. As for the traditional moves you put into your form/kata make sure they are clean and crisp when you execute them. Also if you are having trouble with one of your "tricks" then take it out and don't do it. Don't do it unless you can pull it off. No sense in chancing it. I only know of a few competitors now days that can do a *ALL* traditional form and pull off winning grand champion and that would be Luaren Kearney, Brian Ruth, and Casey Marks Nash when they do empty hand forms. But they are perfect in execution of traditional moves.


 


Stac3y said:


> My style is American Karate. *I'm not a big XMA fan myself, and at age 41 I don't think I'm going to become a gymnast. Maybe in my next life*.
> 
> *So I'm not looking to do anything acrobatic; rather, I want to use good techniques that work well together*. Unfortunately, I can't figure out quite how to do that. Your theme suggestions might help me get started. Thanks!


 

You might want to review what Stac3y already said in an earlier post...


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## searcher (Mar 31, 2009)

Decide on what you are wanting the form to show(blocking, kicking, punching, stances, throwing).   Next decide how flashy you want it and the flow of the form.    Choose the stepping pattern(embusen), I suggest you keep it well within the sides of the ring.   If you step out you get penalty points.

Start with the feet first, then add in the hands.    Next get your tempo down.   Finally practice the form until you are having nightmares about the form.

Hope these pointers help out.


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## Stac3y (Apr 1, 2009)

JadeDragon3 said:


> Okay, here is my opinion on the whole thing based on my experience judging forms divisions in the past at NASKA rated tournaments. I would suggest that you have a good amount of traditional martial art moves in your form *BUT* add a some "extreme" moves in it. I would suggest some flashy jump inside crescent kicks, butterfly twist into the full splits if you can do them, maybe an aerial, etc...... Don't over do it though on the "tricks" as they call them. As for the traditional moves you put into your form/kata make sure they are clean and crisp when you execute them. Also if you are having trouble with one of your "tricks" then take it out and don't do it. Don't do it unless you can pull it off. No sense in chancing it. I only know of a few competitors now days that can do a *ALL* traditional form and pull off winning grand champion and that would be Luaren Kearney, Brian Ruth, and Casey Marks Nash when they do empty hand forms. But they are perfect in execution of traditional moves.


 
If I'm not mistaken, NASKA has made XMA its own division, with Traditional/Creative being separate. I can't remember the exact rules (and no time to look them up right now), but I believe XMA must have at least one 360 degree aeriel move (like a flip of some sort), and T/C can't have any. I only do one NASKA tourney a year (no travel for Mommy), but acrobatic moves are not common or expected in the old ladies (Executive) division where I usually compete. Good thing, too, because the likelihood of me getting airborne is...not.


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## Stac3y (Apr 1, 2009)

Flying Crane said:


> You are welcome.
> 
> What is the history of your school of American Karate? What body of forms do you folks practice? Do they come from one of the older systems of Okinawan or Japanese or Korean bodies? What sets your school of American Karate as different from these others?
> 
> I'm just trying to get a sense of how things might be done in your school.


 
Here's the intro from the website:

"The American Society of Karate was conceived in 1970 .  The A.S.K. is an association designed to teach American Karate to ages 5 - 80 in a positive ever changing system.  New ideas and fresh approaches to the art, sport and self defense aspects of  karate are constantly being added to the system."

Ed Parker is supposed to be the "father" of American Karate; Funakoshi the founder of modern karate, per our materials. Bill "Superfoot" Wallace is closely associated with ASK.

Our traditional forms are taken from various other styles; some Japanese, some Korean.


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## Grenadier (Apr 1, 2009)

The answer, as it is with most other similar questions, is this:

It depends.  

If you want to stick with traditional competition, then there's probably no harm in creating your own version of a kata that is based on one of the traditional kata already in existence.  Many folks have done so, although these are highly advanced people.  

Kotaka Sensei, for example, created a bo kata based off the kata Rohai Shodan, and called it Rohai No Kon.  It actually shows quite well, and I've seen it performed at several traditional Karate tournaments.  

However, Kotaka Sensei is, after all, quite advanced, and already had a sound knowledge of the fundamentals, in both Karate and Kobudo...

If you want to give it a whirl, I'd suggest taking a look at various traditional kata.  At this level (you stated that you're around the brown belt rank), you may want to look at the simpler ones, such as the Pinan series or Heian series, maybe the Pal Gae series, and select one to modify its performance so that it falls in line with what your system teaches.  

Trying to do this with a kata that's performed at the Yudansha level (such as Kanku, Kusanku, Bassai / Passai, Chinto / Gankaku, etc) isn't going to be too productive at this stage.


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## searcher (Apr 1, 2009)

Remember that some styles require you to create a thesis kata for rank advancement.    It is not uncommon for people to make kata up, but it needs to have some purpose.    Not just kata for kata's sake.


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## JadeDragon3 (Apr 1, 2009)

Yes, I had to make up a form for my black sash.  I chose the battle ax.  We could make up either a weapon form or a empty hand form.


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## Stac3y (Apr 22, 2009)

Just an update: I've finally managed to make a start on an original kata. I have to have it ready to perform at my rank testing in mid-July; I think I can make it. 

For any of you who are also doing this, here's the bit of advice one of my instructors gave me that finally clicked: start with the pattern of a kata you already know, but use different techniques. Just moving in a familiar direction allowed me to make a start. 

The other instructor advice that I've taken to heart (but that didn't help me get started) is "play to your strengths." I'm a good kicker; I can kick high with good form, and I can do good spinning and turning kicks, so there will be a LOT of kicks in this kata. I'm NOT a good jumper, so at most there might be a flying side kick in there; or, if I can improve enough, a turning jump crescent kick or jump spinning reverse crescent kick (but those are unlikely, and my ankle is very sore from stubbornly over-practicing them on Monday.)

Thanks for all the advice, and let me know if you have other ideas.


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## searcher (Apr 22, 2009)

If you want it to be a little more unique, play around with how you perform your kiai/kihap.    Have some fun with what you do.


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## Stac3y (May 1, 2009)

Okay, so I got the basics of my kata done and showed them to my instructor on Tuesday. He liked it, and had very few change suggestions, but I then decided *I* didn't like some parts of it and pretty much gutted it. It flows much better now.

There are a lot of kicks in it (I'm a kicker), but I only get airborne (barely) twice--one jump front kick and one flying side kick. 

I was originally planning to keep it under wraps until my next official brown belt test in mid-July (I'll be taking a stripe off at that one if I pass; I'm also going to one this month, but only as practice), but my instructor said I was far enough along with it that I should do it at our invitational tournament on May 9th. :uhoh: 

Eek! I think I'd better practice 8 hours a day for the next week. At least no one will know if I do the wrong technique!


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