# Health Nazi's



## Sukerkin (Jun 2, 2012)

It's something that has gradually been getting under my skin more and more the older I get ... health Nazi's.  They are everywhere and seem to be garnering greater power, with po-faced 'officials' laying down the law with ever greater stringency about what we can eat and drink and how much.

Now clearly, there is a lot of sense to not eating too much fried chicken and ice cream washed down with buckets of coca-cola.  There is also a great deal of sense in taking at least a little excercise to keep everything working properly.  But I really, *really*, hate being preached at by 'authorities' trying to make me live my life by their rules when those rules are, more commonly than not, based on faulty data, faulty assumptions and make no allowance for individual differences.

They make me want to disobey on principle! :lol:

I found this splendid post purely by accident as I was browsing the Net (a site about the physics of food of all things) and I think it illustrates the point quite brilliantly and succinctly:

This is 51-year old TV health guru Gillian McKeith; advocating a holistic approach to nutrition and health, promoting exercise, and a vegetarian diet high in organic fruits and vegetables.

She recommends detox diets, colonic irrigation, and supplements.







This is 51-year old Nigella Lawson; a TV cook... 

who eats meat, butter and desserts and washes it down with wine.






Do you still have any questions?


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## Sukerkin (Jun 2, 2012)

Anyhoo, the serious question that carries forwards from that statement of personal annoyance is, does the lash of official disapproval for certain, perfectly legal, life-style choices have a positive effect or a negative one?  

Is it the case that many more people are like me, who will dig his heels in and belligerently refuse to comply on principle, or are most of the population perfectly happy to do as they are told about things that are, in my opinion, frankly, none of the governments business?


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## Bob Hubbard (Jun 2, 2012)

I see 2 banners for ChemBuddy.

But stick a hose up my **** and let her rip? Uh, Iduntthunkso!


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## Carol (Jun 2, 2012)

Interesting that you write this Suke...I was just going to past about NYC Mayor Bloomberg banning large sodas from city parks (!!)   Will post more when I'm at the computer instead of my phone


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## Bob Hubbard (Jun 2, 2012)

He wants to ban any soda over 16 oz city wide. He's an ***.


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## WC_lun (Jun 2, 2012)

With my medical stuff, I don't have the luxary of doing anything other than what I'm doing even if I want to "dig my heels in."    I got to tell you though, few things I want more than to drink a full Big Gulp with good slice of pizza.

I don't mind so much when government sets healthy standards for schools.  Children aren't old enough to make informed decisions on what they eat.  Adults do.  Telling adults what they can and can't eat is a bridge to far.


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## Carol (Jun 2, 2012)

Especially poignant considering the recent surveillance controversies 


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## WC_lun (Jun 2, 2012)

Awsome find there, Carol!


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## Sukerkin (Jun 2, 2012)

Bob Hubbard said:


> I see 2 banners for ChemBuddy.



Do the pictures not show up properly, Bob?  It's okay on my machine.

Can't re-edit the OP so, just in case there is an 'image problem' {} here are the two pictures again:

Health Nazi In Chief





Food and Flirtation Exponent Extraordinaire


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## billc (Jun 2, 2012)

As to Mayor Bloomberg not wanting to drink soda, here he is in support of national donut day...

http://hotair.com/archives/2012/06/...ont-hurt-you-but-17-ounces-of-coca-cola-will/



> Seriously, you just cant make this stuff up  and you dont need to do so, as long as nanny-staters have to explain themselves on national television.  Mayor Michael Bloomberg appeared on the Today show this morning to promote his ban on large servings of sugary beverages, while at the same time celebrating  I kid you not  National Doughnut Day.  Matt Lauer challenged Bloomberg on the hypocrisy, but Bloomberg insisted that it was just a matter of degree:





> Lauer reminded Bloomberg that his administration came out in support of National Doughnut Day, which Lauer said sounds ridiculous in the wake of his attempts to ban large-sized sodas.
> It doesnt sound ridiculous, Bloomberg replied. One doughnut is not going to hurt you. In moderation most things are OK. Number two, think about what National Doughnut Day is. It celebrates a lot of young ladies during World War I called donut lassies who went and gave donuts to our soldiers while they were fighting to protect.
> Lauer asked why Bloombergs same moderation philosophy with doughnuts doesnt apply in the case of soft drinks.
> This was before obesity was a national epidemic, Lauer said, interrupting. If anything in moderation works for doughnuts  why not with soft drinks?
> Lets do a little comparison. A 20-ounce Coca-Cola contains 240 calories, according to Reasons Jacob Sullum.  According to the nutritional information posted at Dunkin Donuts, only four donuts on their menu have lower calorie counts:


Not only is it just plain dumb, but the gyrations associated with his proposed ban on soft drinks make you dizzy.  He wants to ban sugary drinks over 32 ounces but you can order a milk shake that contains far more sugar, or a Latte that has more sugar and so on. 

This is why I say, I can't wait till guys like mayor bloomberg are making our healthcare decisions for us in 2014.


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## Carol (Jun 2, 2012)

WC_lun said:


> Awsome find there, Carol!



Thanks!  I had a little help from Facebook 

I agree with you about kids meals, although what has passed for "food" (mechanically seperated chicken, "pink slime") is rather horrifying.

A few weeks ago I went up north to go hiking.  I went in to town to get some supplies at the locakgrocery store and bought artichokes as well as fiddlehead greens to roast over my fire that evening.   A lady my mom's age saw me and asked me if I knew how to cook them.  I said I did.  She commented that she didn't think many people knew how to do so, and that cooking was becoming a lost art.

I could see her concern. In the produce section, most of the space was taken up by prepackaged items and no-prep-needed choices such as apples and oranges.   The items that actually took some knowledge to cook were few in number.

I don't think it is a coincidence that the rise of obesity in America has coincided with the rise in processed foods, the increase in the number of restaurants, and the fall of home cooking.  But I don't think that is an issue that will be fixed with nanny state food controls. 

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## billc (Jun 2, 2012)

How wrong you are Carol.  If we just keep writing more and more laws, much like with gun control, eventually all food base obesity issues will be resolved.  If they aren't...we'll just start a federal obesity agency which will send armed federal agents around the country to make sure that all the obesity laws are enforced.  And if that doesn't work...we'll pass more laws because the other ones didn't work...and if that doesn't work we'll just create a new anti-obesity agency...and if that doesn't work...


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## sfs982000 (Jun 2, 2012)

I saw that they were going to ban selling soft drinks over 16 oz in NY and had to laugh out loud, cause yeah that's going to solve the obesity problems in this country pffft!  The abundance and ease of preparing prepackaged meals and food is a big problem, why not go after the companies that produce that garbage, oh wait that's because the politicians are getting financial kick backs from them.  Politics and politicians drive me nuts, of all the other more important problems that should be dealt with, this is what they foot stomping about?


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## billc (Jun 2, 2012)

sfs98200, you are mistaken.  They will go after those companies...eventually.  The health nazis ( no further comments from me on the nazis...this time) will not stop.  First it was butter on popcorn, then portions of chinese and mexican food, then twinkies, and smoking, and second hand smoke and now soft drinks.  Just give them time and they will go after all of it.  They are like the terminator, they'll keep coming until there isn't anything left to ban...


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## sfs982000 (Jun 2, 2012)

billcihak said:


> sfs98200, you are mistaken. They will go after those companies...eventually. The health nazis ( no further comments from me on the nazis...this time) will not stop. First it was butter on popcorn, then portions of chinese and mexican food, then twinkies, and smoking, and second hand smoke and now soft drinks. Just give them time and they will go after all of it. They are like the terminator, they'll keep coming until there isn't anything left to ban...



I do have to agree with that and it's unfortunate.  The whole obesity thing boils down to this in my opinion, no one is putting a gun to these folks heads and making them eat that junk food or drink that 2 gallons of pop a day.  There is so much information out there on proper nutrition and exercise that there shouldn't be the "epedemic" that there is.  It comes down to pure laziness.


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## Makalakumu (Jun 2, 2012)

If the government is footing the bill for your health care, why can't their experts (Health Nazi's is a good term) tell you what to eat and how to exercise?


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## granfire (Jun 2, 2012)

Makalakumu said:


> If the government is footing the bill for your health care, why can't their experts (Health Nazi's is a good term) tell you what to eat and how to exercise?



Because one size does not fit all.

Thre are growing numbers of allergies, digestive tract diseases, some link to the use of gene manipulated foods in our diets.....


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## Sukerkin (Jun 2, 2012)

Well, in essence, it is not the government that pays the bills, it's the tax-payer.  For me, under our health care system, I know that some of my money is being used to treat those that got themselves into a state of ill health through their own choices.  

But I also know that they have been paying their share towards the NHS as well as paying tax, more than likely, on the very things that have caused their condition.  

So, at the end of the day, as long as it is not bankrupting the system, I am inclined to say it is none of my business how they got to be 'ill' and I do not begrudge them the cost of their care.  After all, I used to smoke a lot and I still drink a fair bit (more than the recommended limits at any rate).  It would be hypocritical to expect to be treated by the NHS, should I fall ill, if I took the position that people who 'harm' themselves by their choices should pay for their mistakes out of their own pocket.


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## billc (Jun 2, 2012)

sfs98200, the problem comes in because people just won't do what the health nazis want.  After all, the health nazis only want what's best for all people...and they will use force to make them realize that...


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## Makalakumu (Jun 2, 2012)

granfire said:


> Because one size does not fit all.



I'm sure a team of experts (bureaucrats) could decide upon a proper plan for everyone.


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## Makalakumu (Jun 2, 2012)

Sukerkin said:


> Well, in essence, it is not the government that pays the bills, it's the tax-payer.  For me, under our health care system, I know that some of my money is being used to treat those that got themselves into a state of ill health through their own choices.
> 
> But I also know that they have been paying their share towards the NHS as well as paying tax, more than likely, on the very things that have caused their condition.
> 
> So, at the end of the day, as long as it is not bankrupting the system, I am inclined to say it is none of my business how they got to be 'ill' and I do not begrudge them the cost of their care.  After all, I used to smoke a lot and I still drink a fair bit (more than the recommended limits at any rate).  It would be hypocritical to expect to be treated by the NHS, should I fall ill, if I took the position that people who 'harm' themselves by their choices should pay for their mistakes out of their own pocket.



If the government represents the collective will of the people, then why couldn't the government tell you what to eat and drink and how to exercise?  In a democratic society, if the majority decide what collective good will be served by their tax money, why couldn't they just decide that what you consume and how you exercise is simply part of the collective good?  

In real terms, the food we eat and lack of exercise is bankrupting the system.  One of the major reasons health care costs are going up is because people are getting sicker and sicker.  So, from the collective taxpayer's point of view, perhaps we need the health nazis to save us from ourselves and promote the collective good?


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## granfire (Jun 2, 2012)

Makalakumu said:


> I'm sure a team of experts (bureaucrats) could decide upon a proper plan for everyone.



Now you are being sarcastic.....


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## Em MacIntosh (Jun 2, 2012)

The gov'ts represent the wealthy, not the people.  All western societies, or societies in general are oligarchies.  Any "revolutionary" society quickly falls back into old tendencies and predictable patterns.  You want democracy, the closest you can get is Switzerland.  
The big people always push the little people around.  What bothers me is the PC sanctimony and the ignorant judgement of your character.
For you to know your place is what they want.  They don't even realize who they're working for.


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## Makalakumu (Jun 2, 2012)

Em MacIntosh said:


> The gov'ts represent the wealthy, not the people.  All western societies, or societies in general are oligarchies.  Any "revolutionary" society quickly falls back into old tendencies and predictable patterns.  You want democracy, the closest you can get is Switzerland.
> The big people always push the little people around.  What bothers me is the PC sanctimony and the ignorant judgement of your character.
> For you to know your place is what they want.  They don't even realize who they're working for.



I can see the headline...

"Experts from Monsanto declare that GMO food is the healthiest available. The Government agrees and forms mandate."


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## granfire (Jun 2, 2012)

Makalakumu said:


> I can see the headline...
> 
> "Experts from Monsanto declare that GMO food is the healthiest available. The Government agrees and forms mandate."



we are already halfway there....


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## Makalakumu (Jun 2, 2012)

granfire said:


> we are already halfway there....



Halfway? We are only a few steps away...


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## Bob Hubbard (Jun 2, 2012)

Soon as they finish contaminating the rest of the food supply, then outlaw Organics as 'unproductive' and 'unproven'.....


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## Tgace (Jun 2, 2012)

First they came for NYC's 16 ouncers....


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## granfire (Jun 2, 2012)

Makalakumu said:


> Halfway? We are only a few steps away...



sorry, love, my imperial eye gauge is lacking...(metric is more my thing...)

but yeah...Monsanto is EVIL...


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## shinbushi (Jun 3, 2012)

billcihak said:


> sfs98200, you are mistaken.  They will go after those companies...eventually.  The health nazis ( no further comments from me on the nazis...this time) will not stop.  First it was butter on popcorn, then portions of chinese and mexican food, then twinkies, and smoking, and second hand smoke and now soft drinks.  Just give them time and they will go after all of it.  They are like the terminator, they'll keep coming until there isn't anything left to ban...


 not terminator  remember the future in Demolition Man is is coming soon


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## Jenna (Jun 3, 2012)

I will be a grammar Nazi put my hands on my hips and say - why is there an apostrophe in the word *Nazi's* in the thread title? Hmm?? ihre papiere, bitte! show me your papers! where are your papers!! You are Englische???


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## elder999 (Jun 3, 2012)

To be fair, Mark, Ms. McKeith's appearance is far more attributable to the occasion the picture was taken, her genetics and background, and comparing her to Ms. Lawson is completely unfair, in spite of their relative closeness in age. Ms. Lawson is from a wealthy background, and Ms. McKeith grew up in a council estate-public housing of some sort, what we call "projects" over here. As you probably know, her Scottish background also makes her a target for dermalogical sun damage, whereas Ms. Lawson's Semitic background and darker coloring makes her somewhat less a target. In any case, I think they caught Ms. McKeith on a bad day :lfao: :




And, while she's hardly someone I'd look to as an authority-especially with her lack of credentials-the diet she advocates is healthy and sound.


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## Sukerkin (Jun 3, 2012)

I did realise that the pictures were chosen specifically to emphasise the differences, mate (remember that is someone else's post on a thread on a food science forum). 

It just struck me as a wonderfully illustrative way to get the point across they were trying to make.

I think the shot they used for Dr. McKeith was from reality TV thing, so she looks a little haggard to say the least .


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## Sukerkin (Jun 3, 2012)

Jenna said:


> I will be a grammar Nazi put my hands on my hips and say - why is there an apostrophe in the word *Nazi's* in the thread title? Hmm?? ihre papiere, bitte! show me your papers! where are your papers!! You are Englische???



Nicht verstehen ...

I could try and claim that I did that in order to separate the term that I was using from any association with the real Nazi Party ... but, yeah, yer got me.  Not even *I* am perfect it seems ... {prepares brush and ink, lays tanto on the tatami}


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## Big Don (Jun 3, 2012)

Is it only a matter of time before we have compulsory exercise?


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## Sukerkin (Jun 3, 2012)

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## Master Dan (Jun 3, 2012)

Bob Hubbard said:


> He wants to ban any soda over 16 oz city wide. He's an ***.



What a crock this is the state of governemt and politics today. What needs to happen is better education and programs that creat a desire to exercise and eat healthy benefits that actually pay people to persue being healthy. Suke, A Holistic approach says not only but also which means everything with in moderation the worst thing people do is say this is really bad for me and eat it? it will be. Has this Mayor nothing better to do? This is another case of a person with to much money and to much time on his hands running around doing random acts of lunacy? Why dosn't pass a law saying The Trump Hair Cut is illegal and everyone must have short hair? At least barbers and hair solons would have increased income and The Donald would shrink from TV and the media?


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## Makalakumu (Jun 3, 2012)

Big Don said:


> Is it only a matter of time before we have compulsory exercise?



The opening scene to 1984 comes to mind.


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## Big Don (Jun 3, 2012)

Makalakumu said:


> The opening scene to 1984 comes to mind.



I don't know why, but, your comment reminded me of this:


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## Buka (Jun 3, 2012)

I kind of like the government telling me what to do. It's worked _so well_ up to now.

In the sixties they gave us Nam, we gave them Zig Zags.
In the seventies they gave us Watergate and gas lines, we gave them Disco.
In the eighties they gave us the second largest stock market crash and Iran-Contra, we gave them Madonna and  house parties for the Jamaican Bobsled Team. 
In the nineties they gave us the Gulf War and Rodney King, in return we gave them Rap.
The 2000's gave us Terrorism. In response - The TSA.

"I'm from the government and I'm here to help." - _Ronald Reagan._


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## Tez3 (Jun 4, 2012)

Growing up on a council estate is not like growing up in the 'projects', coiuncil housing is a common way to rent housing here, most estates are not slums but vey respectable, the one McKeith grew up in certainly was, it's in Perth Scotland, a very genteel place. At the time she'd have been living in a council house it was very respectable, working class and a good deal of the country lived in them These days most council houses have been sold and the estates are quite posh. There are bad estates around in the big cities (of which Perth is not). McKeith's background is working class, that doesn't make her poor or ignorant and certainly not ill fed. 

Switzerland isn't a good example of a democracy, try Iceland.


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## Sukerkin (Jun 4, 2012)

I grew up on a council estate and look how I turned out ... hmmm, maybe that's not such a good example :lol:.  

What Tez noted above is true, particular of the time period we are talking about.  Things are not so good these days as the selling off of the housing stock has meant that councils have concentrated their 'bad apples' and turned some estates into terrible places.


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## Tez3 (Jun 4, 2012)

Sukerkin said:


> I grew up on a council estate and look how I turned out ... hmmm, maybe that's not such a good example :lol:.
> 
> What Tez noted above is true, particular of the time period we are talking about. Things are not so good these days as the selling off of the housing stock has meant that councils have concentrated their 'bad apples' and turned some estates into terrible places.



Again the Tories...so much to answer for. Those estates could be good but the government caps the amount of money that councils cane spend on them. Little or no repairs are made, no effort made to improve the area and therefore the life of the tenants who of course then behave as they are treated, feral. Thatcher believed everybody should own their own home and look at the mess that led to.


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## elder999 (Jun 4, 2012)

Tez3 said:


> Growing up on a council estate is not like growing up in the 'projects', coiuncil housing is a common way to rent housing here, most estates are not slums but vey respectable, the one McKeith grew up in certainly was, it's in Perth Scotland, a very genteel place. At the time she'd have been living in a council house it was very respectable, working class and a good deal of the country lived in them These days most council houses have been sold and the estates are quite posh. There are bad estates around in the big cities (of which Perth is not). McKeith's background is working class, that doesn't make her poor or ignorant and certainly not ill fed.



All of which could have described the projects, when they were first built-or even when I was a child in Manhattan-while we didn't live in the projects, quite a few of my Dad's parishioners on the Lower East Side did, so I had a few occasional visits to them in the 60's. Both, I imagine,  contrast quite sharply to the luxury-and presumptive better quality health care and diet-that Ms. Lawson was raised with. By Ms. McKeith's own admission:



> McKeith was born in Perth, Scotland, and grew up on a council estate.[SUP][2][/SUP] Her father, Robert, was a shipyard worker and her mother an office worker. She has said that she was raised eating the junk food she now advises against: "We all know the kind of food I grew up with&#8212;a typical Scottish diet. We'd have meat three times a day. I certainly never ate a mango, and had no idea what macrobiotic meant."


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## Tez3 (Jun 4, 2012)

elder999 said:


> All of which could have described the projects, when they were first built-or even when I was a child in Manhattan-while we didn't live in the projects, quite a few of my Dad's parishioners on the Lower East Side did, so I had a few occasional visits to them in the 60's. Both, I imagine, contrast quite sharply to the luxury-and presumptive better quality health care and diet-that Ms. Lawson was raised with. By Ms. McKeith's own admission:





At the time she was groing up everyone in Scotland ate that, rich and poor. I'm sorry her 'council house' upbringing is no excuse for anything, meat three times a day may be a sign of a bad diet but it's also the diet of a fairly well off family. Junk food for the poor doesn't consist of meat!


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## Omar B (Jun 4, 2012)

Jenna said:


> I will be a grammar Nazi put my hands on my hips and say - why is there an apostrophe in the word *Nazi's* in the thread title? Hmm?? ihre papiere, bitte! show me your papers! where are your papers!! You are Englische???



I was gonna bring it up but someone called me a Nazi in another thread before for pointing out punctuation.


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## elder999 (Jun 8, 2012)

billcihak said:


> As to Mayor Bloomberg not wanting to drink soda, here he is in support of national donut day...
> 
> http://hotair.com/archives/2012/06/...ont-hurt-you-but-17-ounces-of-coca-cola-will/
> 
> ...



Isn't Bloomberg a Republican? :lol:


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## Makalakumu (Jun 8, 2012)

elder999 said:


> Isn't Bloomberg a Republican? :lol:



Simple illogical solutions to big complex problem, sounds like a Republican to me...or Democrat.


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