# Hypothetical Scenario: Extracting yourself from a deteriorating situation



## Bob Hubbard (Sep 8, 2009)

I'm working on an article on model safety and am looking for some expert advice.

Here is the basic scenario:
A model is alone with a photographer, who is pushing for things to go further than the model is comfortable.    They could be in a remote location, or in the photographers downtown studio.  The model is alone, and in a state of undress, possibly nude. Photographer is increasingly insistent on model shooting nude, shooting explicit, or engaging in sexual activities with him.

What are the models options, and what can they do to hopefully safely extract themselves from this situation?

Also, what could they do to avoid this from happening in the future?


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## arnisador (Sep 8, 2009)

Talking him down, including by pointing out that a friend knows where she is and who she's with and when she's due back, and having a cell phone nearby and on, are the obvious bets here. Prevention is the key, including knowing who you're working with, not being in a remote location alone with someone, bringing a friend, and always making sure the other person knows that someone else knows where you are and who you're with and when you're expected back, and that that person _will _begin investigating if you're not back soon.


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## Big Don (Sep 8, 2009)

On the physical end, did you see the recent news story about the attacker whose tongue was bitten off by the woman he was trying to rape? 
A basic education of vulnerable points, eyes, throat, nose, groin, could go a long way to saving someone's butt, or virtue.
Making it a point not to go anywhere you could possibly foresee a problem alone is also a good idea.


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## Xinglu (Sep 9, 2009)

My wife is a pro photographer and I provide a lot of personal security during model shoots - To prevent this, she should check out the photographer  always be accompanied by an escort to "chaperone" and ensure safety.  She should have a contract ahead of time that explains EVERYTHING EXPECTED.  This provides her with legal recourse if the contract is breeched by the photographer. Finally she should meet with the photographer ahead of time (bringing someone with her) and meet all staff that will be present, also she should be told the location of the shoot up front and be allowed to check it out.

She should also provide her own transportation that way she can leave when she wants to, tell someone who isn't escorting her where she will be, and have a cell phone on and near by at all times. 

Once she is in the situation, and let's assume worst case: she is alone, with no cell phone and no transportation: She should terminate the session as soon as the contract is breeched.  If he gets "handsy," I believe all women should learn some jujitsu that way they can get a man off of them and she should leave the premises and get to a phone as fast as she can.  She should then report him to the police and the modeling agency if one is used.

The best thing that any model can do is be proactive, never put yourself in a situation like this.  They should ALWAYS have a competent escort who can handle any "rough stuff" should it happen.  Someone should always know where she is going and how long she is expected to be there and CALL at a specified time to check in.  If she doesn't answer, they should be instructed to call the police.  

Another thing - my wife ensures that no men touch the model, if adjustments are needed or make up is needed it is done by a woman.  Models should know this ahead of time, and meet them ahead of time (when she scouts the studio).

I hope this helps you Bob!


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## Bruno@MT (Sep 9, 2009)

On top of the advice so far: I realize that this is not always an option, but bringing a friend along for company would go a long way towards keeping the photographer in check. If he is a real predator of course that will not work.

Learning to attack the couple of weak spots is great. She should practise this a couple of times every day: make a claw of her hand and push the fingers against a pillow / wall / ... in order to strengthen the fingers and ingrains the reflex.

Ancient wisdom from Sun Tsu: What she should under -no- circumstances do is push him in a corner. Things like yelling _'you're a pervert and I am going to tell everyone. your career will be over'_. If she leaves him no way out, it could end very badly for her. She should leave him (the illusion of) a way out. When she is safe, that is when she can start to think about what to do. Until she is safe, her only objective should be to become safe.


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## Xinglu (Sep 9, 2009)

Bruno@MT said:


> On top of the advice so far: I realize that this is not always an option, but bringing a friend along for company would go a long way towards keeping the photographer in check. If he is a real predator of course that will not work.



There are plenty of personal security professionals out there that provide security exclusively for models.  In fact more and more agencies have in house security for just this reason, they drive the model to the scouting and the shoot, observe the shoot, and escort her back to the agency.  For models not going through agencies, they can still hire someone to do this.

Either way, models should invest in jujutsu training it will serve them well if the worst is to happen.


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## still learning (Sep 9, 2009)

Hello, Proper verbage...should be taught....to say NO!  ...and more etc..

A sign contract should be written... what is expected before the shooting...copies given to her Management agencies/ Mgr...(who,what,where,when..etc) ...

Alway bring a friend/ partners...to be close by!  Prevention is better than cure!

Lastly a few self-defence moves...eye strikes, thoat strikes, groin, biting techniques, ear slapping, ..

Lots of materials and other sites on Rape preventions,tapes, videos, etc...the more you can research and study?  ...the more ideas will come to you!

Police department is a good place for additional information..laws,safety, etc...especially from the police officers who handles rape victims...CONTACT THEM!

Aloha,   prevention is the keys..


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## David43515 (Sep 9, 2009)

I`m sad to say that when I lived in the states, the custom knifemaker I worked for was contacted by a prosecuter`s office to provide a copy of a knife that was missing from a photographer`s possesion. They had proof he`d bought it from us, but the knife was nowhere to be found. They wanted to compare one like it to the wounds on one of his models that he was accused of killing.

This stuff happens. Prevention is worth ten times it`s weight in cure.


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## Deaf Smith (Sep 9, 2009)

The model should never be alone with the photographer. Just as a doctor always has a nurse present, so should the model have someone there with them. Just way to risky being alone. Not only for the model but the photographer (they to can be accused falsely of sexual assault.)

It&#8217;s just not professional of either one involved.

Deaf


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## Carol (Sep 9, 2009)

Deaf Smith said:


> The model should never be alone with the photographer. Just as a doctor always has a nurse present, so should the model have someone there with them. Just way to risky being alone. Not only for the model but the photographer (they to can be accused falsely of sexual assault.)
> 
> It&#8217;s just not professional of either one involved.
> 
> Deaf



I was gonna say......If they don't already, think photographers need to vehemently support models bringing companions and whatnot, esp for riskier shoots (isolated locations, relationship between model and photog still being built up).  A model isn't immune from exploitation, and a photog isn't immune from false accusations.  Build responsible practices and the process becomes better for both.


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## Bob Hubbard (Sep 9, 2009)

Just noting that I'm paying attention and appreciate the comments so far.


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## still learning (Sep 10, 2009)

Hello, Time to time there are ADS in the Newspaper offering "so call modeling jobs" ....paying cash..etc...

No training needed....etc.....BUYERS BEWARE HERE!

Train your people...if it sounds to good to be true? ....be-aware...here..

Aloha,


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## Xinglu (Sep 10, 2009)

Carol Kaur said:


> I was gonna say......If they don't already, think photographers need to vehemently support models bringing companions and whatnot, esp for riskier shoots (isolated locations, relationship between model and photog still being built up).  A model isn't immune from exploitation, and a photog isn't immune from false accusations.  Build responsible practices and the process becomes better for both.



Most reputable professionals do vehemently support having her bring someone, and they also tend to provide other females there in the form of make up artist and photo assistants and stylists so that there is an air of propriety, and protection for him in case she makes up some bogus charge (happens more than you'd think unfortunately).  Also if she needs help with wardrobe changes then it is another female helping her and not a male or the photographer himself.  For nude shoots the makeup artist and the stylist should _always_ be female if the model is female, and male if the model is male.

At models should already know this, but it is worth mentioning, the second they feel uncomfortable, they need to either speak up (if they feel that is safe) or if they feel that could lead to more trouble have their security escort take them back to the agency (or home in the case of independent models).


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## zDom (Sep 10, 2009)

I agree with the above advice: the model should always bring chaperone to protect herself (or himself).

And the photographer should always have an assistant to protect himself (or herself) from allegations.


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## arnisador (Sep 10, 2009)

zDom said:


> I agree with the above advice: the model should always bring chaperone to protect herself (or himself).
> 
> And the photographer should always have an assistant to protect himself (or herself) from allegations.



I agree. On the other hand, not everyone is shooting for Sports Illustrated, and having an assistant/make-up artist present could bust the photographer's budget, and a person who models a lot may not be able to afford a hired companion but may outrun her ability to impose on friends to come along. This just isn't always going to be realistic. It isn't like a physician having a nurse present, where insurance pays the co$t.


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## Bob Hubbard (Sep 10, 2009)

Photographers dislike escorts for a number of reasons.  They are a distraction, they can be violent, jealous types. They can steal from the photographer. They can be a legal liability, and a financial drain. They can be a creative buzz kill.  Etc.

Assistants are great, when you can afford one, and when they are actually useful.


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## Xinglu (Sep 10, 2009)

arnisador said:


> I agree. On the other hand, not everyone is shooting for Sports Illustrated, and having an assistant/make-up artist present could bust the photographer's budget, and a person who models a lot may not be able to afford a hired companion but may outrun her ability to impose on friends to come along. This just isn't always going to be realistic. It isn't like a physician having a nurse present, where insurance pays the co$t.



This is simply not true.

Someone shooting Sports Illustrated is paid a flat rate, do not have rights to their images, and SI provides the model, security, any assistants, and artists.  

With the current going rates being roughly $250/hour, and the average shoot being 2.5 hours....  She should be able to afford the security if none is provided by the client (not the photographer).  Any model getting less than that (on average) is a fool.

Furthermore, make up artists are part of the bill.  The client pays for all of this: The model, the makeup artist, the photographer, the photo assistant, usage (varies based on weather it is a local circulation all the way out to international circulation).

The photographers budget is includes his camera, lights, general equipment and nothing more.  The photographers budget will not be "busted" by anything that relates to the models, assistants, stylists, or make up artists.  Heck if it is a long shoot, the client pays for the catering!

To go an hire a photographer you will be billed for studio/location time, digital systems time, images, usage, stylist, make up artist, props that are needed, specific costumes, model, and food (for long shoots).

None of this comes out of the photographers pocket.


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## Bob Hubbard (Sep 10, 2009)

Shoot rates vary.  Nude work in WNY is free and up. But, we digress.

I've talked to models who checked references, got all the right answers, yet ended up creeped out, and in 2 cases raped.  Now, the "big news" cases you hear about are rarely the casual "just met" internet model thing, but established folks, sometimes with history between them. So, there are alot of variables here to consider.


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## Xinglu (Sep 10, 2009)

Bob Hubbard said:


> Photographers dislike escorts for a number of reasons.  They are a distraction, they can be violent, jealous types. They can steal from the photographer. They can be a legal liability, and a financial drain. They can be a creative buzz kill.  Etc.
> 
> Assistants are great, when you can afford one, and when they are actually useful.



1. Any photographer that gripes about a model being escorted quickly finds that no model want's to work with him. 

2. Any professional model hires professional escort that act: professional.  Otherwise her unprofessionalism will find her without much work.

3.  Assistants are paid for by the client.  The photographer bills the client for their time if they need an assistant.  It is not about what the photographer can afford.  And if the photographer can't find a competent and useful assistant, then that photographer is looking in the wrong places.  Professional photographers (I define this as anyone who makes money via photography services and devotes time and effort into seeking employment as a photographer) belong to a professional photographers organization like: American Society of Media Photography, American Photographers Association , or Professional Portrait-photographers Association.  Such organizations allow photographers to find assistants easily as well as provide legal advice and services on behalf of the photographer (to include collections).  They even provide insurance for the photographers equipment in case it is stolen or broken.  Any photographer that does not belong to such an organization is not a professional (as I defined it) and most likely a hobbyist.  Models looking for _*credible*_ work should do their due diligence and look into the photographer a bit.  If he is is not a member of a professional organization, that should set alarms off and be a key indicator that said photographer is not any of the following (maybe all of them):
1. Professional.
2. Legit.
3. Credible.

Furthermore, any hobbyist who is looking to become pro and is building their portfolio should conduct themselves as a professional and provide services as such.  Anything less is not only unprofessional but will make it exponentially harder for them to get work, build a positive reputation, and /or establish any credibility in the field.


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## arnisador (Sep 10, 2009)

Xinglu said:


> None of this comes out of the photographers pocket.



Not all of these situations involve the photographer being hired. Often he or she is doing it to build a portfolio/on spec. In that case it does _indeed _come out of his pocket.


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## Xinglu (Sep 10, 2009)

Bob Hubbard said:


> Shoot rates vary.  Nude work in WNY is free and up. But, we digress.
> 
> I've talked to models who checked references, got all the right answers, yet ended up creeped out, and in 2 cases raped.  Now, the "big news" cases you hear about are rarely the casual "just met" internet model thing, but established folks, sometimes with history between them. So, there are alot of variables here to consider.



Of course they very, I gave the average rate.  Any model that does nudes for "Free" are suckers, or getting something else (barter, like she retains portfolio rights and get prints in exchange for modeling) and thus it is not free.

All of those cases could have been prevented if she had a professional escort with her.  As I said, any photographer who objects to a professional escort being there should send bells and whistles and alarms off in the models head.  IF nothing unprofessional or dubious is going on, then what is the problem with a guy sitting in the corner watching the shoot if that is what makes the model comfortable and happy?


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## Xinglu (Sep 10, 2009)

arnisador said:


> Not all of these situations involve the photographer being hired. Often he or she is doing it to build a portfolio/on spec. In that case it does _indeed _come out of his pocket.



I already addressed that.



Xinglu said:


> Furthermore, any hobbyist who is looking to become pro and is building their portfolio should conduct themselves as a professional and provide services as such.  Anything less is not only unprofessional but will make it exponentially harder for them to get work, build a positive reputation, and /or establish any credibility in the field.



Anything less then complete professionalism is unacceptable. Having her escort there covers her rear and YOUR rear as the photographer.


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## Bob Hubbard (Sep 10, 2009)

What other jobs allow escorts?  

Last I looked, Playboy and Sports Illustrated don't allow escorts at shoots.


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## jks9199 (Sep 11, 2009)

I haven't had time to really give this some thought -- but I do have a couple of thoughts.

First, I think it's a good idea for the model & photographer to meet somewhere public BEFORE the photo shoot.  If either gets a bad feeling, there's no need to go further.

Second, it's not practical to have an escort/chaperone/aid at every shoot.  For a model doing his/her first nudes, it may be uncomfortable and distraction, for example.  But you can backstop in various ways, without having another person present.  Begin by making sure that someone else knows the time & location of the shoot -- and when it will end.  That way, someone knows where you are -- and when you should be back.  I'd also consider perhaps keeping a digital recorder (video or audio) running throughout the shoot, if practical.  No -- it won't stop anything, but will provide evidence.  (And it might deter some stupidity.)  A written outline/storyboard of the shoot would also be a good idea, I'd think.  It doesn't have to be so locked tight that there's no room for creativity -- but it should be enough to give both an idea where the lines are planned to be... and know when to say STOP!

You asked about extricating... but the truth is that it's a lot like a choke hold.  If you wait till it's locked on -- you can't escape.  You've got to recognize it, and stop it before it goes too far -- or walk away.


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## Xinglu (Sep 11, 2009)

Bob Hubbard said:


> What other jobs allow escorts?
> 
> Last I looked, Playboy and Sports Illustrated don't allow escorts at shoots.



This is because they as the company provide the security.  Furthermore it is not a closed set with a stylist and makeup artists on set.

What do you mean by jobs?  Occupations or types of photo sessions?


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## Carol (Sep 11, 2009)

Wow, those sound like some excellent ideas JKS :asian:



jks9199 said:


> .  I'd also consider perhaps keeping a digital recorder (video or audio) running throughout the shoot, if practical.  No -- it won't stop anything, but will provide evidence.  (And it might deter some stupidity.)



Neither one of us are attorneys, but I'd like to expand on this a bit.

In general, as long as both/all parties involved know the recorder is there (all party consent), such a recording can often be evidenciary in court.   If the recording device is concealed so so only one person knows its there (single party consent), such evidence is often dismissed as hearsay (this assumes a CALEA/court order is not in place) and may even be illegal -- although prosecutions for this type of wiretapping are rare.

Once the recorder is going, the other party doesn't have to like that it is there, or even agree to it being there, he just needs to know its there and running.  (Hint:  its a good idea to have this on tape).


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## Xinglu (Sep 11, 2009)

jks9199 said:


> Second, it's not practical to have an escort/chaperone/aid at every shoot.  For a model doing his/her first nudes, it may be uncomfortable and distraction, for example.



Any model willing to take their clothes off, be seen by multiple people on set nude (to include the client), and have their nude image published is not going to care if someone providing security for THEM sees anything.  Furthermore if this a nude portfolio work, and she expects any work, she needs to get over being shy regarding being seen nude.  There is no room for prudishness about who sees you nude when you are a nude model.

At my wife's studio not every model brings an escort (unless it is their agency's SOP), her studio has a great reputation, and in all shoots there are at least 5 other people on set (not including the client who may or may not be there).  She does everything from nudes to just product and no model.  But EVERY-TIME a new model comes in, she brings an escort.  She is encouraged to by us as well because we want her to feel comfortable and safe.


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## Xinglu (Sep 11, 2009)

Recording the photo-shoot... No photographer would ever agree to this, and if she was ever found hiding a camera to record the shoot, she would never work for anyone again.   No photographer would hire her.  The agency would drop her because they wouldn't want the photographers to think that their agency condones espionage and not going to them for models. Furthermore, it does not PREVENT the rape from occurring in the first place. She is better off having an escort and a call plan. Which provides eye witness account that is admissible in court, prevention via force (just being there), the possibility of rescue (someone is there to respond) and third parties to investigate if something went wildly wrong and both she and the escort where incapacitated.

How is that not practical?  At the very _least_ it could be a friend that you trust to be professional.


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## jks9199 (Sep 11, 2009)

Carol Kaur said:


> Wow, those sound like some excellent ideas JKS :asian:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Great point.  I'm used to Virginia being a one-party consent state -- and the simple fact that, as a general rule, if I'm recording something, the recording is often legal by definition.  But then, I get to play by a different set of rules. 



Xinglu said:


> Any model willing to take their clothes off, be seen by multiple people on set nude (to include the client), and have their nude image published is not going to care if someone providing security for THEM sees anything.  Furthermore if this a nude portfolio work, and she expects any work, she needs to get over being shy regarding being seen nude.  There is no room for prudishness about who sees you nude when you are a nude model.


It's easy to say this -- but something that seems like it's an OK idea when you're setting it up and clothed can sometimes seem a lot less comfortable in reality.  I'd expect that after the first couple of times, it's no big deal... but that first time or two?  Maybe a little more uncomfortable.


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## Xinglu (Sep 11, 2009)

jks9199 said:


> Great point.  I'm used to Virginia being a one-party consent state -- and the simple fact that, as a general rule, if I'm recording something, the recording is often legal by definition.  But then, I get to play by a different set of rules.
> 
> 
> It's easy to say this -- but something that seems like it's an OK idea when you're setting it up and clothed can sometimes seem a lot less comfortable in reality.  I'd expect that after the first couple of times, it's no big deal... but that first time or two?  Maybe a little more uncomfortable.



Having put my wife through photography school, I can tell you first hand - the models building nude portfolios don't care who sees them, and more often then not enjoy the attention it brings.  Even their first or second time.  In fact, most of these nude models are exhibitionist by nature and have been on film of one kind or another before they take any professional shots.  They don't just wake up one day and say, "Self, me thinks nude modeling might be for me.  Lets have a go at it!"  It is a mentality and a mindset.  Having worked with many of them of both genders and from "rookies" to "seasoned salts" I'm telling you first hand.  We have had first time topless to playmates doing nude shots.  And the only thing "rookies" are worried about is if their breasts are big enough.


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## Bob Hubbard (Sep 11, 2009)

I'd like to keep this from becoming an escort debate.

While I agree with you that models, especially when shooting for the first time should have an escort, it's not always practical and it's not always allowed.  Not every photographer who says no to them is a creep. He/she might simply have been burned by them somehow in the past.

Also, and I hope the LEO's reading can correct me if I'm wrong, but it only takes a second or 3 for someone with a stun gun to zap someone.  If I have 2 tasers, I can quickly immobilize both a model and her escort, and now as a bad guy, I get twice the 'fun'.  Last 3 nude shoots I did, the models escorts were petite friends of theirs. Not much of a deterrent.

The scope of my questioning here isn't to debate escorts, but to build a resource of ideas, tips and tricks on how to avoid sticky situations, and how to get out of them when they happen.

Sample of the article I'm assembling, in part based on this discussion.
=====


New Model Safety Tips
By Bob Hubbard

Modeling is normally a safe activity. Unfortunately, there are a number of unsavory characters out there who will prey on those who are vulnerable. Some shoots can place you in a vulnerable position. So, here are some tips I've collected from various photography and model sites to help ensure your safety.

Do your research into your Photographer.

    * Check references with other models he or she has shot. Pay attention to how they say things too. 
    * Make sure you see examples of their work and look for specific examples of what they want to use you for.
    * Check the National Sex Offender Registry : http://www12.familywatchdog.us/
    * Use Google or another search engine to look up their name.
    * Check on professional modeling sites such as OneModelPlace, ModelMayhem, etc. for information.
    * Check &#8220;The New Model's Guide to the Industry and Scams&#8221; at http://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?thread_id=275824 for information on scams and how to avoid being a victim of one.
    * Find out as much as you can about those you are considering working with. Ask around.
    * Be certain to get a verifiable home and/or studio phone number, and street address, for anyone you work with. Especially if you are meeting somewhere
    * If a photographer say's he shoots for a certain magazine......look in the magazine and see if his name is in the masthead.. If it isn't, call the magazine to verify him. If they don't know him, drop him/her immediately.

Protect your Privacy.

    * Never post personal contact information, such as address and phone number in an area where the public will view it (such as websites, message boards...etc).
    * Be very careful regarding posts and e-mail from anyone with a generic (hotmail, yahoo, etc.) e-mail address.
    * Be wary of unprofessional posts and emails.
    * A private area should be provided for you to change outfits. Remember, you are there to do a shoot, not a striptease.

Protect Yourself on Shoots

    * Be very clear about what kind of work you are looking for, and what kind of work you will not accept.
    * Never travel on a shoestring and have a back-up plan if things don't work out exactly as planned.
    * Especially when working with someone new, if possible, bring along a chaperone to the photo shoot. Any professional photographer should not have a problem with this. Do NOT work with anyone who refuses to allow you to.  Many photographers have horror stories about escorts and are very set against allowing them on set during a shoot. They should have no problem however with someone dropping you off and waiting outside the studio.
    * Arrive at remote shoots separately.
    * Let someone know where you will be at all times.
    * Be sure to check in with someone when you arrive, when you leave, when you change locations, and during breaks.
    * Know what your limits are as to what you will do, and stick with them. Make certain that both you and the photographer are well aware of them. Leave if the photographer insists you go beyond them. (IE: Do nude when you don't want to.)
    * Home studios are fine, just make sure that there is a separate changing area, with a lock. Always check your surroundings. Check for exits etc.
    * Be cautious when dealing with photographers who want you to break the law, trespass, or put yourself into vulnerable and compromising situations.  Sure the photographer can pay your fine, but the police record will remain yours regardless.
    * Ask the photographer about their insurance coverage. Many photographers are uninsured amateurs. While competent photographers, shooting with an uninsured photographer could be a headache should something go wrong during the shoot.

Protect your Future

    * Don't do anything that you might be sorry for later. What you do today can affect your career later down the road. "If you pose for a photo that you cannot show your family and friends, and be proud of it, it wasn't worth doing". Mainly YOU should be proud of it.
    * There should always be a modeling agreement "release" signed before the shoot, some might prefer after. As long as you get one it should be ok. Make sure in the agreement that you have knowledge of where and how your images are going to be displayed. Try to have full say in this.... If at all possible.
    * Again regarding modeling releases, these are to protect you and the photographer. You want to have things in writing, as verbal agreements rarely hold up in court.

Modeling is a safe, fun and often financially rewarding activity.  Use clear thinking and common sense while doing it and you'll have a long, safe and enjoyable career.

=====

Bob Hubbard is a Buffalo NY based photographer focusing on martial arts, event, portrait and fine art photography. His work has appeared on several leading websites.  Bob can be reached through his web sites bobhubbardphotography.com and martialphotos.com.


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## girlbug2 (Sep 11, 2009)

Deaf Smith said:


> The model should never be alone with the photographer. Just as a doctor always has a nurse present, so should the model have someone there with them. Just way to risky being alone. Not only for the model but the photographer (they to can be accused falsely of sexual assault.)
> 
> Its just not professional of either one involved.
> 
> Deaf


 
Agreed. The experienced professional probably has this all down cold. But how would a 15 year old model know any of this? (that is a pretty typical age for fashion models at least).


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## jks9199 (Sep 11, 2009)

Looks good, Bob.  One suggestion:  Any studio with a changing area and a lock can easily become a trap!  You may want to elaborate that they want a lock that the model controls... I'm not sure on the wording, but I think you can see the point I'm making.


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## jks9199 (Sep 11, 2009)

girlbug2 said:


> Agreed. The experienced professional probably has this all down cold. But how would a 15 year old model know any of this? (that is a pretty typical age for fashion models at least).


A fifteen year old shouldn't be alone with the photographer PERIOD.  Anytime a minor is involved -- there should be an adult present on their behalf.  That should just be a given!  And that's one circumstance that waiting outside is unacceptable.

And any photographer doing nudes of children needs to really, really know what they are doing.  The baby-in-the-bathtub is one thing... but nudes beyond that sort of thing really can go into very bad territory very quickly.  Even if they're supposed to be "art."  The line between child porn and art is vanishingly small -- and often only the opinion of a prosecutor or judge.


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## MJS (Sep 11, 2009)

Bob Hubbard said:


> I'm working on an article on model safety and am looking for some expert advice.
> 
> Here is the basic scenario:
> A model is alone with a photographer, who is pushing for things to go further than the model is comfortable. They could be in a remote location, or in the photographers downtown studio. The model is alone, and in a state of undress, possibly nude. Photographer is increasingly insistent on model shooting nude, shooting explicit, or engaging in sexual activities with him.
> ...


 
I would say that before she even puts herself in a position like that, make sure that she knows as much as possible about the photographer.  Now, this isn't to say that deep down, the guy could be a nut, but knowing who you're getting shot by is important IMO.  Is he some fly by night person or does he work for a reputable company with a proven track record?  What do other models have to say about the photographer or the co. he works for?  Has anyone else ever been pressured into doing something they didn't want to before?  

I would suggest being firm about what you are willing to do/not do.  If he is not taking no for an answer, then the session is over.  She gets dressed and leaves.  If he refuses to let her leave, now he is holding her against her will and anything goes IMO.  If it means grabbing something to use as a weapon, then so be it.  

Other options are to always make sure you let someone know your schedule.  Time of the shoot, location of the shoot, who will be at the shoot, etc.  Make contact with someone when you're done with the shoot.  Have someone with you during the shoot.  Doesn't have to be in the same room, but in the next room, outside, etc.


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## MJS (Sep 11, 2009)

Bob Hubbard said:


> Photographers dislike escorts for a number of reasons. They are a distraction, they can be violent, jealous types. They can steal from the photographer. They can be a legal liability, and a financial drain. They can be a creative buzz kill. Etc.
> 
> Assistants are great, when you can afford one, and when they are actually useful.


 
Well, I say too damn bad.  Both people need each other. If the girls dont go to him, he gets no business.  If they don't like his terms, they dont get paid and have to find someone else.  

I posted my first post before I read this one, but I did address this issue there.  I'd say at the least, someone should be able to be outside in the car or in another room.  But someone should be nearby.


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## MJS (Sep 11, 2009)

Bob Hubbard said:


> What other jobs allow escorts?
> 
> Last I looked, Playboy and Sports Illustrated don't allow escorts at shoots.


 
With SI, we already know there is no nudity and with Playboy we know its not as graphic or explicit as some of the other magazines, so I would think that the photographers would not even make an attempt to suggest anything more.

Heres a question....with the scenario you originally gave vs. the ones in this post, what are the odds that there will be more than just the girl and the photographer in the room, the set, or where ever?


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## joeygil (Sep 11, 2009)

One more strategy one could use when things look like they're getting dicey.  Grab the photog's gear.  

I'd imagine this would be more of an issue with a non-pro shooter, in which case gear is very precious.  Threatening to damage a $1700 lens or $8000 camera might make somebody come to their senses (or get more enraged...).

"We are done, and if you don't let me go right now, your 1Ds / strobe / 70-200 2.8L IS is flying across the room."


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## Bob Hubbard (Sep 11, 2009)

MJS said:


> With SI, we already know there is no nudity and with Playboy we know its not as graphic or explicit as some of the other magazines, so I would think that the photographers would not even make an attempt to suggest anything more.
> 
> Heres a question....with the scenario you originally gave vs. the ones in this post, what are the odds that there will be more than just the girl and the photographer in the room, the set, or where ever?


SI does have nudity, it's just that they are covered in paint, or it's done implied.


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## Bob Hubbard (Sep 11, 2009)

> If you want to bring an escort to protect you.., don't bother.  I'll be here and I'll protect you.  If you need them for moral support, you don't belong here either.  If you need them for a ride, make up, or other 'good' reason, please talk to me early in our conversatons, as I may already have alternatives.



So, in light of the posts so far, what's this message from a photographer say to you?
Note: Not Me.


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## arnisador (Sep 11, 2009)

In an ideal world...sure. In this one? Better safe than sorry.

Those who are saying bring a friend...if I had a "friend" who kept asking me to stand around for several hours and wait for him/her to do a shoot, I'd start feeling used if I wasn't being paid. Given that some of these are cases of the model getting prints for time, the model may not be able to hire a friend if the model gets, say, 10 hours per week of work. It ain't that simple.


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## MJS (Sep 11, 2009)

Bob Hubbard said:


> SI does have nudity, it's just that they are covered in paint, or it's done implied.


 
True.  I guess I was just comparing the two...Playboy and SI....while they may contain that, one I'd say would be more tasteful than the other.



Bob Hubbard said:


> So, in light of the posts so far, what's this message from a photographer say to you?
> Note: Not Me.


 
That message tells me that its his way or the highway.  Sorry, I guess its the highway then.  I don't feel that anyone should be put in an uncomfortable situation.  If the photographer can't understand that, then I dont know what else to say.


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## jks9199 (Sep 12, 2009)

Bob Hubbard said:


> So, in light of the posts so far, what's this message from a photographer say to you?
> Note: Not Me.


RUN AWAY!

That's what that says!

(And maybe forward the guy's info to the police...)


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## BLACK LION (Sep 15, 2009)

Bob Hubbard said:


> I'm working on an article on model safety and am looking for some expert advice.
> 
> Here is the basic scenario:
> A model is alone with a photographer, who is pushing for things to go further than the model is comfortable. They could be in a remote location, or in the photographers downtown studio. The model is alone, and in a state of undress, possibly nude. Photographer is increasingly insistent on model shooting nude, shooting explicit, or engaging in sexual activities with him.
> ...


 
I am not an expert but I will offer my .02 anyhow. 
I have a beautiful daughter and one day this may be an issue...   


Avoidance-Awareness-Assertion   the triple A's 

A female should never meet a photographer in a professional or business manner alone or in a secluded area...  
Bring a friend(with integrity) or two for security and make sure the place is public or in an actual business that has more than one employee..   

Research the photographer regardless of who recommends them... 

Never get undressed in front of a man or men with a camera alone and expect that all he wants is your picture...  

On to the scenario...   
so model is nude and photographer is increasingly uncomfortable... 

nows the time to be aware of any tools that are readily available other than what you physically have...  bottle...corkscrew... telephone...  vase... etc...   
avoid making any contact that would lead them on further and make every attempt to get dressed and get the hell out of there....   

If he gets on you after you have already said no...flog him with any nearby blunt object and beat feet...   try to get his wallet on the way out...    may need his info later if he comes after you or decides to find a home for your nude pics on the internet...


 Excuse the ramble...this was a curveball Bob....


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