# Jai Harman clip



## guy b. (Dec 6, 2015)




----------



## drop bear (Dec 6, 2015)

He needs to fight someone good. I mean if he is going to put his brand out there then he should be legitimate about it.


----------



## KPM (Dec 6, 2015)

Good video!  Anybody that includes footage of themselves training their 7 year old daughter is Ok in my book!  ;-)  I don't understand your comment drop bear.  There are plenty of good legitimate martial arts instructors out there that have never "fought someone good" to make their "brand" legitimate.


----------



## guy b. (Dec 6, 2015)

Bit of chi sau footage of Harman here from about 7.45


----------



## guy b. (Dec 6, 2015)

drop bear said:


> He needs to fight someone good. I mean if he is going to put his brand out there then he should be legitimate about it.



Frost?


----------



## geezer (Dec 6, 2015)

To follow up on KPM's comment, I don't see that he's "putting his brand out there" as Drop Bear asserted. Rather, he's continuing the lineage of his teacher, Wang Zhi-peng.

@ _Drop Bear:_ He does spar and test his stuff, but does he have to be an MMA pro to "legitimately" pass on the art he's trained if his sifu has approved for him to do so? Heck, if that's the criteria, I better quit teaching right now.


----------



## yak sao (Dec 6, 2015)

geezer said:


> @ _Drop Bear:_ He does spar and test his stuff, but does he have to be an MMA pro to "legitimately" pass on the art he's trained if his sifu has approved for him to do so? Heck, if that's the criteria, I better quit teaching right now.



Yep...consider this my letter of resignation.


----------



## drop bear (Dec 6, 2015)

geezer said:


> To follow up on KPM's comment, I don't see that he's "putting his brand out there" as Drop Bear asserted. Rather, he's continuing the lineage of his teacher, Wang Zhi-peng.
> 
> @ _Drop Bear:_ He does spar and test his stuff, but does he have to be an MMA pro to "legitimately" pass on the art he's trained if his sifu has approved for him to do so? Heck, if that's the criteria, I better quit teaching right now.



You got a heap of vs threads out there? Do you rack up your reputation with beginners you have bashed?


----------



## guy b. (Dec 7, 2015)

Do you find something offensive about these videos?


----------



## geezer (Dec 7, 2015)

guy b. said:


> Do you find something offensive about these videos?



Apparently he (Drop Bear) does. I don't follow Jai's videos, but based on what's been posted, see the problem.


----------



## Hanzou (Dec 7, 2015)

drop bear said:


>



For the love of christ, someone teach that boy the Elevator sweep!


----------



## drop bear (Dec 7, 2015)

guy b. said:


> Do you find something offensive about these videos?



I am not offended. He is pretty good for a beginner.

I am not sure why he settled for being a beginner though.  With some work he could potentially be good.


----------



## guy b. (Dec 7, 2015)

I'm guessing that he prefers to do what he does, rather than what you want him to do.



> I am not offended



You are talking about what he should do if he wants to put his "brand" out there. You mention how you perceive his legitimacy, as if there existed some kind of global martial arts regulations he must adhere to. Sounds like what he is doing irritates you in some way. Why?


----------



## drop bear (Dec 7, 2015)

guy b. said:


> I'm guessing that he prefers to do what he does, rather than what you want him to do.
> 
> 
> 
> You are talking about what he should do if he wants to put his "brand" out there. You mention how you perceive his legitimacy, as if there existed some kind of global martial arts regulations he must adhere to. Sounds like what he is doing irritates you in some way. Why?



He competes against beginners.if that is his thing. Fair enough I suppose. If you say that is the level he has supposed to reach then fabulous.

I would like to see him get good one day.

Look mabye i am the only one who thinks if i am teaching a style.  I dont test against beginners of other styles and then you tube the results.


----------



## KPM (Dec 8, 2015)

I agree that his opponents didn't look that great.  But the fact is, each of the videos you posted took place in a ring with an audience.  The person he was fighting chose to step into the ring with him.  Most rank beginners probably aren't going to step into a ring with lots of people watching and try to fight someone as big as Jai Harmon unless they think they are going to be able to hang with him.  It isn't like he was beating up on his own junior students.  People were sitting on the sidelines specifically to watch a match.  Do you do that with beginners?


----------



## guy b. (Dec 8, 2015)

drop bear said:


> He competes against beginners.
> 
> Look mabye i am the only one who thinks if i am teaching a style.  I dont test against beginners of other styles and then you tube the results.



Ok so you are saying he is too good to be fighting these guys and that he shouldn't be doing it?



> I would like to see him get good one day.



So he's not actually good? Great! Ok, got it. Should be ok for him to fight these guys then, yes?



> He is pretty good for a beginner.



I'm confused now..what are you even saying?


----------



## guy b. (Dec 8, 2015)

KPM said:


> I agree that his opponents didn't look that great.  But the fact is, each of the videos you posted took place in a ring with an audience.  The person he was fighting chose to step into the ring with him.  Most rank beginners probably aren't going to step into a ring with lots of people watching and try to fight someone as big as Jai Harmon unless they think they are going to be able to hang with him.  It isn't like he was beating up on his own junior students.  People were sitting on the sidelines specifically to watch a match.  Do you do that with beginners?



As far as I can tell from the clips it was a martial arts event with open competitions in boxing, MT and grappling. He entered all to see how he would do and filmed it, seems fair enough to me. I don't think he is responsible for whether his opponents are good enough to please drop bear, or why drop bear cares so much about relatively good beginner (think I got that right) Jai Harman?


----------



## drop bear (Dec 8, 2015)

KPM said:


> I agree that his opponents didn't look that great.  But the fact is, each of the videos you posted took place in a ring with an audience.  The person he was fighting chose to step into the ring with him.  Most rank beginners probably aren't going to step into a ring with lots of people watching and try to fight someone as big as Jai Harmon unless they think they are going to be able to hang with him.  It isn't like he was beating up on his own junior students.  People were sitting on the sidelines specifically to watch a match.  Do you do that with beginners?



Yes.
that is how you start of your first time fighters.




Aftershock is our most famous promotion.

Jai as the teacher of his style beat the beginners of other styles.

If I went out and mmaed a whole bunch of tma white belts. Then nobody would consider that a test of my abilities. If I YouTubed them all it would be resume padding or ego stroking.

If jai wants to be a fighter then he should fight someone good. That is the point of being a fighter. Not to pick and choose your oponants so you can say you are a fighter.

I have said this before it will say it again. To test yourself you need to court loss. Fight someone good and learn to be humble.

The potentially first time fighters who stood their ground with jai exhibited those qualities. And managed to stand and bang with an expert in his field.


----------



## KPM (Dec 8, 2015)

^^^^ Good points!


----------



## guy b. (Dec 8, 2015)

drop bear said:


> Jai as the teacher of his style beat the beginners of other styles.
> 
> If I went out and mmaed a whole bunch of tma white belts. Then nobody would consider that a test of my abilities. If I YouTubed them all it would be resume padding or ego stroking.
> 
> ...



If he is "a beginner" and not yet good then what is the problem with him appearing in low level bouts? Isn't this exactly what he should be doing? It would make no sense from his point of view to appear at a level that is above him. He would lose and look bad, and it wouldn't do his advertising much good. I think it is pretty obvious what he is doing, and it isn't training for serious MMA comps.

It seems as if you want to see him get beaten up or taught a lesson for some reason? He is selling wing chun FFS, I think he is probably aware that he isn't going to be the next MMA world champ.

Similarly I can't see any problem with Harman using video footage of amateur fights and sparring to promote his wing chun teaching. There is no secrecy about what the bouts are. He isn't lying about anything, beyond the obvious piss take titles of the clips which are probably intended only to wind up humourless bores like those at Bullshido

He is doing exactly the same thing as Alan Orr, only in a much more risky (and some might say much less sleazy) way, since he is actually risking his own neck and the possibility of embarrassing video footage, rather than someone else's.

It makes no sense that this bothers anyone. Lol at "if Jai wants to be a fighter". I can't believe how literally people take things.


----------



## guy b. (Dec 8, 2015)

Newsflash for any other semi-autistic mma fans: Jai Harman doesn't want to be an MMA fighter at this point in time, unless he is really stupid, and I'm sure that's not true.

Advice for future living with impaired ability to perceive reality: judge people by what they do instead of what they say.


----------



## drop bear (Dec 8, 2015)

guy b. said:


> If he is "a beginner" and not yet good then what is the problem with him appearing in low level bouts? Isn't this exactly what he should be doing? It would make no sense from his point of view to appear at a level that is above him. He would lose and look bad, and it wouldn't do his advertising much good. I think it is pretty obvious what he is doing, and it isn't training for serious MMA comps.
> 
> It seems as if you want to see him get beaten up or taught a lesson for some reason? He is selling wing chun FFS, I think he is probably aware that he isn't going to be the next MMA world champ.
> 
> ...



So he is promoting wing chun experts can mix it with beginners of other systems.

Weird way to promote.  

Yes I want him to loose and look bad. It is the only way to get good.

And when he is good enough to not loose and look good He should find someone better to make him loose and look bad again.


----------



## drop bear (Dec 8, 2015)

guy b. said:


> Newsflash for any other semi-autistic mma fans: Jai Harman doesn't want to be an MMA fighter at this point in time, unless he is really stupid, and I'm sure that's not true.
> 
> Advice for future living with impaired ability to perceive reality: judge people by what they do instead of what they say.



He picks easy fights. Not just mma. But apparently in everything. And uses that to give him credentials as an instructor. That is what he does. That is how I will judge him


----------



## guy b. (Dec 8, 2015)

drop bear said:


> So he is promoting wing chun experts can mix it with beginners of other systems.
> 
> Weird way to promote.
> 
> ...



He's promoting wing chun to the kind of people that generally do wing chun. He's not selling it to mma fans

I think, if he wants to make a living teaching wing chun, that he will be wanting to do his losing and learning in private, or not at all, depending on his level of personal integrity.


----------



## guy b. (Dec 8, 2015)

drop bear said:


> He picks easy fights. Not just mma. But apparently in everything. And uses that to give him credentials as an instructor. That is what he does. That is how I will judge him



Ok, now with that in mind, why on earth would he want to go into higher level mma fighting, especially without extensive prior training, at this point in time?


----------



## drop bear (Dec 8, 2015)

guy b. said:


> He's promoting wing chun to the kind of people that generally do wing chun. He's not selling it to mma fans
> 
> I think, if he wants to make a living teaching wing chun, that he will be wanting to do his losing and learning in private, or not at all, depending on his level of personal integrity.



So the people who generally do wing chun see themselves as beginners as compared to other systems?

Mabye wing chun is more protective of an instructors ego than I am used to. I respect guys who have lost fights and looked bad.

If this does not happen in wing chun then that is their thing I suppose.


----------



## guy b. (Dec 8, 2015)

> He picks easy fights. Not just mma. But apparently in everything.



I don't think a few kick boxing videos show much about "everything"


----------



## drop bear (Dec 8, 2015)

guy b. said:


> Ok, now with that in mind, why on earth would he want to go into higher level mma fighting, especially without extensive prior training, at this point in time?




To validate the path he has chosen. If he wants to be a fighter. Then he should fight someone good. If he dosent then avoid the environment all together.


----------



## drop bear (Dec 8, 2015)

guy b. said:


> I don't think a few kick boxing videos show much about "everything"



There is no evidence to suggest he has ever had a hard fight.


----------



## guy b. (Dec 8, 2015)

> So the people who generally do wing chun see themselves as beginners as compared to other systems?



Lol, give it a rest.

Make a brand, sell brand, make money. Avoid anything that can disrupt money stream. Alan Orr 101. Lloyd Irvin 101. 10th Planet 101


----------



## guy b. (Dec 8, 2015)

drop bear said:


> If he wants to be a fighter



Whoa there. Go back and repeat the thinking exercise we tried earlier.


----------



## guy b. (Dec 8, 2015)

drop bear said:


> There is no evidence to suggest he has ever had a hard fight.



Oh FFS, are you really struggling this much to think it through? Why would there be evidence of him having had a hard fight?


----------



## drop bear (Dec 8, 2015)

guy b. said:


> Lol, give it a rest.
> 
> Make a brand, sell brand, make money. Avoid anything that can disrupt money stream. Alan Orr 101. Lloyd Irvin 101. 10th Planet 101



Probably. I don't have to agree with it. I am pretty sure I am allowed to be against promoting yourself over enhancing yourself.

If he is all about self promotion then the obvious fact he is on a beginner level with other styles might need to be addressed.


----------



## drop bear (Dec 8, 2015)

guy b. said:


> Oh FFS, are you really struggling this much to think it through? Why would there be evidence of him having had a hard fight?



There wouldn't because he has never had one.

Sandbagging In BJJ


----------



## guy b. (Dec 9, 2015)

drop bear said:


> Probably. I don't have to agree with it. I am pretty sure I am allowed to be against promoting yourself over enhancing yourself.



The only self you have any control over is yourself.



> If he is all about self promotion then the obvious fact he is on a beginner level with other styles might need to be addressed.



Why are you obsessing over this beginner?


----------



## guy b. (Dec 9, 2015)

drop bear said:


> There wouldn't because he has never had one.
> 
> Sandbagging In BJJ



Who knows what Jai Harman is doing in his private training? You don't and I don't.

What is for sure is that he is interested in promoting his brand. Therefore the probability of anyone seeing footage of him where he looks bad is very small, unless it comes from someone else.

Sandbagging in bjj is a different thing and is based on the fact that bjj has teams and belts. Sandbagging is done for the benefit of the team. Entering a low level amateur fighting comp as an individual from TMA and competing in all events is not sandbagging because there is no belt to misrepresent and no team to stand for. It's a fair enough thing to do, especially for a beginner, which is what you agree he is.


----------



## guy b. (Dec 9, 2015)

> he is on a beginner level with other styles



Then _WTF ARE YOU EVEN ARGUING ABOUT?_


----------



## KPM (Dec 9, 2015)

Well, I don't see Jai Harmon as a beginner in Wing Chun at all.  He is pretty darn good.  I don't think he is a beginner at gloved sparring either.  But I do see drop bear's point.  Part of how Jai Harmon is promoting himself is by putting out videos of himself sparring other styles to show that he can use his Wing Chun.  That's good.  The problem lies in the fact that it is pretty obvious that the videos he chooses to post show him sparring people that are not on his level, making him look that much better.  This would be good.  Except for the fact that people that have been around fighting and know better, recognize that he is NOT fighting anyone that is giving him a real test in these videos.  I'd rather see him fighting hard against someone that is obviously good at what they do than winning easily against someone who is not.


----------



## guy b. (Dec 9, 2015)

KPM said:


> Well, I don't see Jai Harmon as a beginner in Wing Chun at all.  He is pretty darn good.  I don't think he is a beginner at gloved sparring either.



We don't really know what Jai Harman is like at wing chun because very little material is available and (I guess) none of us have met him?



> But I do see drop bear's point.  Part of how Jai Harmon is promoting himself is by putting out videos of himself sparring other styles to show that he can use his Wing Chun.  That's good.  The problem lies in the fact that it is pretty obvious that the videos he chooses to post show him sparring people that are not on his level, making him look that much better.  This would be good.  Except for the fact that people that have been around fighting and know better, recognize that he is NOT fighting anyone that is giving him a real test in these videos.  I'd rather see him fighting hard against someone that is obviously good at what they do than winning easily against someone who is not.



It's purely PR! I don't think he is trying to impress either drop bear or you. He is making his brand.


----------



## drop bear (Dec 9, 2015)

guy b. said:


> Then _WTF ARE YOU EVEN ARGUING ABOUT?_



This whole thing has been me saying he should fight someone better and you saying he shouldn't. Neither of us have come up with anything new as to why. So we might chalk this up to having different expectations. Or cultural differences.

I don't think you build a brand on those sort of fights. You build experience. If you build a brand you do pro fights.(mostly, there are exemptions like the Olympics)

Our club has a theme that a hard loss is a better fight than an easy win. Because the fight is supposed to expose the character of both fighters.

The philosophy is very Nietzsche. Or rocky depending on where you get your culture from.

So we can keep going round in circles ow we can come up with some sort of new ideas.

Otherwise I have no idea what he does behind closed doors. He could be curing cancer or kicking puppies. So I am not sure how speculating helps.
Philosophy of Friedrich Nietzsche - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## guy b. (Dec 9, 2015)

drop bear said:


> This whole thing has been me saying he should fight someone better and you saying he shouldn't. Neither of us have come up with anything new as to why. So we might chalk this up to having different expectations. Or cultural differences.



I'm not saying any such thing. I'm giving you insight into his decision making process based on his actions. It isn't rocket science.

There's no should or shouldn't with a person you don't even know. Should or shouldn't yourself. Jai Harman will decide what is best for Jai Harman to do.



> I don't think you build a brand on those sort of fights. You build experience. If you build a brand you do pro fights.(mostly, there are exemptions like the Olympics)



Plenty of people have built an MA brand out of much less than this. Alan Orr is a good example of someone who has done jack sh1t himself, but who has built a successful brand that (ironically) MMA fan boys seem to love.



> Our club has a theme that a hard loss is a better fight than an easy win. Because the fight is supposed to expose the character of both fighters.



Bear this in mind when you build your own brand. Don't see what it has to do with Jai Harman



> I have no idea what he does behind closed doors.



Correct!


----------

