# Vee Arnis Jitsu Clips



## MJS (Jan 25, 2010)

Came across these 2 clips. Thought they were pretty good. A few things that caught my eye about them:

1) Prof. James puts the hurt on! Clearly states this on the clip descriptions, but IMO, I think its good as it shows that the stuff works, and it gives the students a feel for the tech.

2) Clip 1. I like this clip, because it disspells the notion that some people have, who think that the bad guy is just going to stand there, and also, that many strikes that we think we can pull off (in this case, the groin shot) go right out the window, due to the movement, body position, etc.

3) Clip 2. I think that alot of times, people discredit the effectiveness of joint locks. However, I feel, much like it was said in this clip, that when you're putting on a lock, you 'soften' up the guy, for lack of better words, prior to putting it on. One of the main things that really caught my attention in this clip, was towards the end, around the 3:58 mark. Well, I won't spoil it, but IMO, I think it applies to many threads that we've seen on here, when the topic of complying, being too aggressive, etc. come up. Frankly, I think Prof. James hit the nail on the head.

Thoughts?


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## Nolerama (Jan 25, 2010)

I like the SD-minded tech! Definitely puts the hurt on. However, he seems pretty hardcore and a little too intense for me. But then again, some people like that sort of thing. Just not a fan.

In the second vid, I don't like how his assistant is just standing there (especially compared to the more live first vid) and only reacting as if he did get hit.

Not all people react in the same way when it comes to strikes. A meth/ketamine fiend will react differently compared to your average mugger on marijuana and alcohol. And if he is going to react as if he's actually getting hit, he should also react as if he has some knowledge that strikes are coming his way.


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## K831 (Jan 25, 2010)

What I like most is his INTENT. I don't care who you are, your rank or style, if the intent and mindset isn't there, you'll likely lose. 

You would have to not take things too personally in his class. He is definitely an in your face, drill sgt type of instructor. 

It looks as though he keeps his techniques simple, direct and pretty easy to learn. Krav Maga ish in that respect. Immediate reaction followed by a flurry of basic one-two punches. 

Don't know about the name of the art. Wouldn't feel too tough walking around in that sweat shirt with "VAJ" in big letters lol 



MJS said:


> 3) Clip 2. I think that alot of times, people discredit the effectiveness of joint locks. However, I feel, much like it was said in this clip, that when you're putting on a lock, you 'soften' up the guy, for lack of better words, prior to putting it on.
> 
> Thoughts?



The FMA instructor (Direct Torres Escrima) I am currently working with has a lot of locks. I am not generally a fan too be honest. In class last Saturday we were running the Filipino version of AKKI Kenpo's "trapping set" (I think its called Hubbub or something?) and we were running it with empty hands/weapons and playing with its applications. He started showing all the possible disarms to locks that were there, and then he said "I don't generally like locks and disarms" he went on to explain that too many guys "hunt for them". 

Exactly. Take them when they come, and speed them up, breaks, not locks. Volla! 

In some of the Vee Arnis Jitsu clips I have seen, that seems to be the mentality. 

Also, I liked his finger in the eye crank the neck response to the clinch.


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## Sukerkin (Jan 25, 2010)

Being English, that full-on, shouty-American, intensity is a bit off-putting but out of it all there was one sentence in his wrap-up that said it all.  I can't recall the exact wording but he said, in answer to criticism that the system and mode of practise was too violent, that you have to become someone else for just thirty seconds to make sure you are able to get home safe to your family.

In the end, that is the unvarnished martial truth at the core of any art.  Don't throw away your inate sense of morality or decency but enter that state of what the Japanese call _mushin_ for the time that it takes to make your escape.


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## jks9199 (Jan 25, 2010)

He's got a very important point:  Violence is VIOLENT  (see Rory Miller's truths in my signature) and to prepare for it, you must train with violence.  But I don't like how he continued to inflict locks as his students/training partners are frantically tapping.  It seems rather unsavory, for lack of a better word.  I'm not one to say training shouldn't involve pain... but when you inflict pain without concern for your training partner, there's something off kilter.


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## Nolerama (Jan 25, 2010)

Violence can also be invited by mean-mugging people on the street, which seems to be celebrated with that instructor based on his tone, but I could be wrong.

Not interested in training the mean, "san paku" look, although I am a fan of winning over a physical altercation via intimidation. Saves on the paperwork.

I've seen people with that look/attitude/over confidence before... In the mirror. And after experiencing the wrong end of a 6-1 street fight in which I thought I could take them all out (got 2!) found myself in a ditch, bleeding, bruised, broken, and winded.

That confidence got me a big mouth, which made me think I could say anything to anyone about whatever. I learned one very valuable lesson that night:

Calling unnecessary attention to yourself is a bad thing.

Meeting violence with violence... Totally in favor of that! Starting violence with obvious body language, totally against.

Be chill and aware. Probably one of the best SD tips I've ever heard.


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## repz (Jan 25, 2010)

The very first martial arts I have ever studied was Vee Arnis jitsu. They were training temporarily in the next building next to mines and they eventually moved to greenpoint/williamsburg brooklyn karate kickboxing dojo by McCarren park, then they ended up moving again.

Does anyone have any info about them?

They had a few black belts, the highest ranked was this white haired latino, they had this one blackbelt black gentleman that was a gymnast as well, and this one latino who had curly hair that played an extra in the movie shootfighter (i think that was the name of the flick). I remember one guy became a recent black belt, he fractured his arm and had it in a sling. David James was *not *an instructor here.

Any info as to where they are or ended up at? This was in 1994 or 95 around there.


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## MJS (Jan 25, 2010)

Nolerama said:


> I like the SD-minded tech! Definitely puts the hurt on. However, he seems pretty hardcore and a little too intense for me. But then again, some people like that sort of thing. Just not a fan.


 
Intense is putting it mildly! LOL!  Seriously though, IMO, I think he's really passionate about his art, his teacher and maing sure he's teaching something that is effective.  I've never met the guy, but I think it'd be pretty interesting to train with him.



> In the second vid, I don't like how his assistant is just standing there (especially compared to the more live first vid) and only reacting as if he did get hit.


 
Yes, I noticed that.  



> Not all people react in the same way when it comes to strikes. A meth/ketamine fiend will react differently compared to your average mugger on marijuana and alcohol. And if he is going to react as if he's actually getting hit, he should also react as if he has some knowledge that strikes are coming his way.


 
True.


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## MJS (Jan 25, 2010)

K831 said:


> What I like most is his INTENT. I don't care who you are, your rank or style, if the intent and mindset isn't there, you'll likely lose.


 
Amen!  



> You would have to not take things too personally in his class. He is definitely an in your face, drill sgt type of instructor.


 
Absolutely!



> It looks as though he keeps his techniques simple, direct and pretty easy to learn. Krav Maga ish in that respect. Immediate reaction followed by a flurry of basic one-two punches.


 
This is one of the reasons I like what I see.  



> Don't know about the name of the art. Wouldn't feel too tough walking around in that sweat shirt with "VAJ" in big letters lol


 
LOL!




> The FMA instructor (Direct Torres Escrima) I am currently working with has a lot of locks. I am not generally a fan too be honest. In class last Saturday we were running the Filipino version of AKKI Kenpo's "trapping set" (I think its called Hubbub or something?) and we were running it with empty hands/weapons and playing with its applications. He started showing all the possible disarms to locks that were there, and then he said "I don't generally like locks and disarms" he went on to explain that too many guys "hunt for them".


 

Exactly. Take them when they come, and speed them up, breaks, not locks. Volla! 

In some of the Vee Arnis Jitsu clips I have seen, that seems to be the mentality. 

Also, I liked his finger in the eye crank the neck response to the clinch.[/quote]

Hubud is the term.   I agree though, and I think this is why many dont like locks.  When I teach them, I always try to stress that the locks should come to us, not the other way around.

Good stuff!


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## MJS (Jan 25, 2010)

Sukerkin said:


> Being English, that full-on, shouty-American, intensity is a bit off-putting but out of it all there was one sentence in his wrap-up that said it all. I can't recall the exact wording but he said, in answer to criticism that the system and mode of practise was too violent, that you have to become someone else for just thirty seconds to make sure you are able to get home safe to your family.
> 
> In the end, that is the unvarnished martial truth at the core of any art. Don't throw away your inate sense of morality or decency but enter that state of what the Japanese call _mushin_ for the time that it takes to make your escape.


 
He yells in pretty much every clip that I've seen of him.  As I said, that was one of the things that stuck out most..the fact that a real attack is violent and needs to be met with a violent response.  When he was attacked, he responded.  I'd be interesting to hear his thoughts on verbally defusing vs. rushing right in for the kill, so to speak.  I dont know the man, but if I had to wager a guess, I'd say that he's not going to stand there and talk his way out.  His 'talking' is probably going to be an overwhleming pounding on the badguy.


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## MJS (Jan 25, 2010)

jks9199 said:


> He's got a very important point: Violence is VIOLENT (see Rory Miller's truths in my signature) and to prepare for it, you must train with violence. But I don't like how he continued to inflict locks as his students/training partners are frantically tapping. It seems rather unsavory, for lack of a better word. I'm not one to say training shouldn't involve pain... but when you inflict pain without concern for your training partner, there's something off kilter.


 
When I saw that one clip, I could feel the pain just from watching.  Of course, in the description it stated that his students felt the pain, but nobody got hurt, so I suppose thats a good thing. LOL.


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## MJS (Jan 25, 2010)

repz said:


> The very first martial arts I have ever studied was Vee Arnis jitsu. They were training temporarily in the next building next to mines and they eventually moved to greenpoint/williamsburg brooklyn karate kickboxing dojo by McCarren park, then they ended up moving again.
> 
> Does anyone have any info about them?
> 
> ...


 
I believe the main school is now in Brooklyn. Check out the site. www.veearnisjitsu.com


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## Deaf Smith (Jan 25, 2010)

In Krav Maga they constantly have to remind me not to put my thumbs on the other guys Adams apple when doing a simulated choke.

But.... I've had ex-military long time ago show me just how fast one can be dropped when they push in with their thumbs. Yes, I was gagging and tears were flowing from my eyes as he dropped me to the ground.

Point being, any technique to stop a choke hold MUST BE FAST AND HARD. If you struggle around like in Vid 1, or roll around on the ground while they are choking you, anyone who knows how to choke will drop you while crushing your throat.

You must get them off your throat as fast as you possibly can.

I always look for that when anyone demonstrates their technique for defending against a choke.

Deaf


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## sgtmac_46 (Jan 26, 2010)

Nolerama said:


> I like the SD-minded tech! Definitely puts the hurt on. However, he seems pretty hardcore and a little too intense for me. But then again, some people like that sort of thing. Just not a fan.
> 
> In the second vid, I don't like how his assistant is just standing there (especially compared to the more live first vid) and only reacting as if he did get hit.
> 
> Not all people react in the same way when it comes to strikes. A meth/ketamine fiend will react differently compared to your average mugger on marijuana and alcohol. And if he is going to react as if he's actually getting hit, he should also react as if he has some knowledge that strikes are coming his way.



I don't mind the hardcore aspect, I kind of like it myself.  Again really to each their own.  That's why Baskin Robbins has 31 flavors (or whatever it is).

You make a good point about people reacting differently.  We tend to forget that if we get accosted by someone, it's probably someone pretty comfortable with violence, who's been in a few fights.  It doesn't take much experience fighting before people get used to getting hit.  And someone used to getting hit, isn't going to react like someone who has never been hit in their life.

When hitting someone who's not used to getting hit,all that's required is to create a little bit of pain, discomfort and confusion, and most folks will fold up and move out.

Folks that are used to getting hit, on the other hand, have long since worked through dealing with pain, discomfort and they aren't confused by it.......so you have to create dysfunction in those folks, which is a bit harder.


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## sgtmac_46 (Jan 26, 2010)

Nolerama said:


> Violence can also be invited by mean-mugging people on the street, which seems to be celebrated with that instructor based on his tone, but I could be wrong.
> 
> Not interested in training the mean, "san paku" look, although I am a fan of winning over a physical altercation via intimidation. Saves on the paperwork.
> 
> ...



Walk softly, carry a BAZOOKA! 

A big part of the key to 'Speed, Surprise and Violence of Action' is the surprise.


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## sgtmac_46 (Jan 26, 2010)

MJS said:


> He yells in pretty much every clip that I've seen of him.  As I said, that was one of the things that stuck out most..the fact that a real attack is violent and needs to be met with a violent response.  When he was attacked, he responded.  I'd be interesting to hear his thoughts on verbally defusing vs. rushing right in for the kill, so to speak.  I dont know the man, but if I had to wager a guess, I'd say that he's not going to stand there and talk his way out.  His 'talking' is probably going to be an overwhleming pounding on the badguy.



I'd say, in reality, he's probably an easy going seeming guy, will talk if talking is good........can go instantly to crushing if he decides the talking is a waste of time.

The yelling, I think, is mostly for the benefit of his students getting used to someone being violent in their face.  Real violence involves a lot of yelling, screaming, cussing, violent emotion.

If someone grabbed one of his students walking down the street, slammed them against a wall, and yelled in their face, they'd probably feel pretty comfortable in that environment, relatively speaking.


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## K831 (Jan 27, 2010)

sgtmac_46 said:


> We tend to forget that if we get accosted by someone, it's probably someone pretty comfortable with violence, who's been in a few fights. It doesn't take much experience fighting before people get used to getting hit. And someone used to getting hit, isn't going to react like someone who has never been hit in their life.
> 
> When hitting someone who's not used to getting hit, all that's required is to create a little bit of pain, discomfort and confusion, and most folks will fold up and move out.



  Truer words, as they say. 

  I think you are dead on here. So many guys in various dojos and gyms forget this. The guy assaulting you, picking a fight with you, whatever, probably has done it before, maybe a lot. 

I have said many times; it really is won in the heart and mind. Proper intent, aggression, focus is more key than anything. 

  I also think you are correct in your statement that it only takes a few fights to get used to getting hit. (I guess one thing I am grateful for out of a miss-spent youth ha) I do think this applies more to having actually had some real fights. I know some disagree, but for most people, I dont think any amount of ring time can take the place of a real fight. The fear and adrenaline just isnt the same. 



sgtmac_46 said:


> Folks that are used to getting hit, on the other hand, have long since worked through dealing with pain, discomfort and they aren't confused by it.......so you have to create dysfunction in those folks, which is a bit harder.


  Yes, and here is when skill + intent comes into play a bit more. The intent to go after it, and the skill to hit targets that break/disrupt structure. 



sgtmac_46 said:


> I'd say, in reality, he's probably an easy going seeming guy, will talk if talking is good........can go instantly to crushing if he decides the talking is a waste of time.


  Isnt that the key? We interviewed a couple of guys recently for a security/doorman position. Funny how some of them spoke only of their fighting prowess; How strong they were, fit, fast and could handle anyone who would show up for the event. That is needed for sure, as on occasion a mob erupts and a few key players have had to be handled physically. However, I needed to hear a lot more about their perception, recognizing volatile people and situations before they start. Ability to stay calm and diffuse the situation, that kind of thing. 





sgtmac_46 said:


> The yelling, I think, is mostly for the benefit of his students getting used to someone being violent in their face. Real violence involves a lot of yelling, screaming, cussing, violent emotion.
> 
> If someone grabbed one of his students walking down the street, slammed them against a wall, and yelled in their face, they'd probably feel pretty comfortable in that environment, relatively speaking.


  Agreed. I think he is doing his best to get them to remember and work the material under some degree of stress.


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