# Kenpo for the Armed Forces



## kenpo3631 (Apr 3, 2002)

Just looking for other points of view on how some of you out there would alter the EP Kenpo techniques to fit the needs of the US Military. I have a gig to teach here on my post/base.:drinkbeer :machgunr: :tank: :mp5: :biggun: :drink2tha :cheers:  :asian:


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## Rob_Broad (Apr 3, 2002)

Why would you alter the material.  Everybody has to learn things in progression.  If it is due to a time constraint I would find some techniques from each of the 8 categories, Grab, Push, Punch, Kick, Choke & Lock, Hugs & Holds, Weapons, and Multiple attacks.  Goldendragon7 might be able to give you some good pointers.


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## kenpo3631 (Apr 3, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Rob_Broad _
> 
> *Why would you alter the material.  Everybody has to learn things in progression.  If it is due to a time constraint I would find some techniques from each of the 8 categories, Grab, Push, Punch, Kick, Choke & Lock, Hugs & Holds, Weapons, and Multiple attacks.  Goldendragon7 might be able to give you some good pointers. *



Tailoring is a kenpo trait. Here in the US each member of the Armed Services wears some kind of combat load, whether its the standard Kevlar helmet and LBE down to an Aviation Life Support Vest. Some wear the Battle Dress Uniform (BDU), others fire resistant coveralls, so tailoring is crucial to making a technique affective as well as economical (motion wise). Also we want to dispose of the enemy as quickly as possible. I have many ideas, I'm just looking for some other opinions.:asian:


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## Rob_Broad (Apr 3, 2002)

Having been in the Canadian Armed Forces Reserve, I understand different uniforms and battle dress.  The way I understood the first post was that you wanted to alter the program itself.  Tailoring the techniques to the individual is great but they must also understand the base of the technique to truly be able to use the tailored version.   My biggest concern was if there was a time constraint like 3 days of intense training and then you never see the  person again.  That is something I have done sveral times when assisting at the police college.  You might want to focus on Master Key techniques like Five swords  Whatever you end up doing with the program good luck.


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## Zoran (Apr 3, 2002)

In my opinion, the military has special needs. If you are running a siminar on EPAK, then by all means, follow the EPAK categories and techniques. If you are running a seminar on Military Combat, then you will need to modify your techniques. In military combat, things have to be done fast and to the kill. Keep it simple, should be your main objective. What you show them must be designed to save their lives on the field. It should be simple enough to allow them to practice it without forgetting what they had learned. Just remember, you are not training martial artists or kenpoists, but soldiers.


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## Goldendragon7 (Apr 4, 2002)

I would first evaluate what exactly is needed per each individual, most common type of material needed for the specific branch or individuals job  title.    Then tailor the curriculum to exactly that.   As Zorian says... the goal in not become a black belt or martial artist or teach but to kill or use in total combat SD scenario.  You don't need freestyle techniques or pledges for this.   lol  

Your environment (personal as well as surrounding is of paramount consideration.  Movements must be logical and realistic to be used other wise useless for this particular application.

Just my thoughts.......

:asian:


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## Ronin (Apr 4, 2002)

Kenpo in the military how often does one confront a soldier hand to hand?   Thats what guns are for.   But then again it would be useful of one does get close to someone with out a serious weapon.  Boy how that poor soldier in saving private ryan could of used kenpo to benefit him instead of being stabbed. When I am working on the street. my kenpo sense tells me to use my gun when i need to and physical skills when i need to.  it reminds me of how people started thinking about karate lessons on plane fights after 9/11  how much could you really alter?


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## kenpo3631 (Apr 5, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Ronin _
> 
> *Kenpo in the military how often does one confront a soldier hand to hand?   Thats what guns are for.   But then again it would be useful of one does get close to someone with out a serious weapon.  Boy how that poor soldier in saving private ryan could of used kenpo to benefit him instead of being stabbed. When I am working on the street. my kenpo sense tells me to use my gun when i need to and physical skills when i need to.  it reminds me of how people started thinking about karate lessons on plane fights after 9/11  how much could you really alter? *



Ronin what do you do for a living? 

Not only can kenpo be used in combat but it can used for physical restraint (as well as any art) while on guard duty, etc. 

Remember just because we have weapons (never a gun) it doesn't mean they will always work. What if you get shot down and you have you weapon crushed between your thigh and the lower console of the helocopter you're flying? as the case of a pilot I met at Ft. Rucker, AL or if you weapon jams and you can't correct the malfunction? what if you run out of ammo? Hand to hand is a real possibilty whether you have a weapon or not.

If you are adept at the Parker Two-Man techniques you'll notice all of the non-essential strikes, (inserts), have been removed and the core strikes are left in. They are kept short and sweet, only striking to the vital areas where you will hopefully incapacitate your first attacker immediately so you can get to work on the second, if you think about it you have no time to waste. I think it's just a bit different from karate lessons for airline fights after 9/11:shrug: :asian:


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## marshallbd (Nov 13, 2003)

> _Originally posted by kenpo3631 _
> *Ronin what do you do for a living?
> 
> Not only can kenpo be used in combat but it can used for physical restraint (as well as any art) while on guard duty, etc.
> ...


 What would the legal implications be for someone using a martial art such as Kenpo in a situation where you had to restrain someone.  Specifically like a corrections envioronment.  (Ie Booking desk at the county jail etc....)


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## Marcus Buonfiglio (Nov 13, 2003)

> _Originally posted by kenpo3631 _
> *Just looking for other points of view on how some of you out there would alter the EP Kenpo techniques to fit the needs of the US Military. I have a gig to teach here on my post/base.
> 
> The best source of information that I could recommend would be Mr. Michael Pick at the Universal Kenpo Fedreation. He is currently the Chief Combatives Instructor for Special Forces 10th Group 101st Airborn Div. at Fort Carson. The Kenpo Combatives System he has implimented is comprised of all the elements you are looking for and is battle tested. If you would like to email me privately I will give you the necessary contact info.*


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## kenpo2dabone (Nov 13, 2003)

The Grand master of the Universal Kenpo Federation, Michael Pick, teaches Special Forces in Colorado. Really, the only difference is he teaches how to go to the kill by the third move of any technique. It is my understanding that he teaches them the yellow and orange belt because that is all he can teach them in the time he has with each Special Forces group. In addition to empty handed combat he also teaches tactical knife combat as well as hatchet techniques. He has designed a knife for this purpose as well as a hatchet which get issued to the Special Forces groups the he instructs. If you are interested in seeing the knife it can be viewed at www.ukfkenpo.com. A picture of the hatchet is not yet available. So to get back to the point the reason for altering the system for them is there is simply not enough time to teach the entire Kenpo system to them. Heck I have been in it for ten+ years and I have but only scratched the surface.

Salute,
Mike Miller UKF


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## Michael Billings (Nov 13, 2003)

I am using and teaching a lot of the Contact Manipulations, Controls, and Immobilizations.  While I was in Mental Health (yes I got better, but no ... seriously folks), I also taught the importance of correct and safe Contact Releases.  

The Military has a different intent, usually not law enforcement.  Hence the difficulty with fighting men having to "police" other countries.  It is tough for a warrior, trained to a fine edge, to tone it down to crowd control ... mix that with more terrorism.  OK, I am mad now and way off topic, so I better stop.   

It is almost apples and oranges when "control" is the peace officer's function, and "winning" and "staying alive" the soldiers.  I do not mean to preclude the importance of our police, marshall's or sheriff's staying alive ... it is just as important (survivability), but the police have civil and departmental, or even criminal constraints regarding the amount of force you are allowed to use.  This compounds the difficulty using your martial art, whatever it is, to it's fullest.

Just my opinion and observations,
-Michael


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