# How Many Kata am I or are You Doing?



## Kosho Gakkusei (Sep 10, 2007)

When considering how many Kata you practice, do you look at differing levels ie. Shodan, Nidan as portions of the same Kata or as a Kata in themselves?

I usually tell people that I practice almost 30 Kata (29 to be precise) but that's with counting Shodans, Nidans, -Shos, & Dais, etc.  If I look at them as segments of the same Kata then it's really 12.

I guess for the purpose of learning the Kata for me it was learning 29 different forms.  But what I'm actually studying is 12 unique Kata.

What are some of your thoughts on the matter?

_Don Flatt


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## tshadowchaser (Sep 10, 2007)

I have over 40  that I know but I have to admit to practicing only about half that number on any regular bases


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## Kennedy_Shogen_Ryu (Sep 10, 2007)

There are a lot of stories, especially with old Okinawan instructors, that they would only learn 3-4 forms sometimes spending 3-4 years per form before being allowed to move on.  They didn't just learn the form they practiced until they understood the form.  I think that today there isn't as much (not saying none) emphasis on understanding forms.  But then this can come to the argument that some people say there are all these hidden techniques in Kata and those that say they are all very straight forward.  I think that there are more to most Katas then some people see, therefore I don't think it's the number of forms you know it's whether or not you understand what they are and why you practice them.


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## ppko (Sep 10, 2007)

Kennedy_Shogen_Ryu said:


> There are a lot of stories, especially with old Okinawan instructors, that they would only learn 3-4 forms sometimes spending 3-4 years per form before being allowed to move on. They didn't just learn the form they practiced until they understood the form. I think that today there isn't as much (not saying none) emphasis on understanding forms. But then this can come to the argument that some people say there are all these hidden techniques in Kata and those that say they are all very straight forward. I think that there are more to most Katas then some people see, therefore I don't think it's the number of forms you know it's whether or not you understand what they are and why you practice them.


Most people believe that Azato Yasutsune (Ankoh) is the one that started the 3-4 years per form, as that is what he made his only student  (Gichen Funikoshi) do.  I have personally narrowed the kata I teach down to just 6 for more in depth study of each.


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## stoneheart (Sep 10, 2007)

I probably need to trim down my list to a more manageable number, but it's hard to let go of something you've learned.  I've been fortunate enough to have been exposed to some really good instructors in a variety of styles.  It seems almost disrespectful to not practice what they shared with me.

Believe it or not I run all these kata below at least every other day.  My self-practice at home is essentially all kata with some hojo undo thrown in.  And oddly enough, I practice both the Korean and Okinawan versions of a few of the Pinans.  I also teach tae kwon do at a community center and we're affiliating with the AIMAA, which uses BOTH the Chang Hon and Tae Guk series of forms, so that should be a fun effort LEARNING them all.  I know the choreography of the hyung already, but I'm an applications guy and I know it takes time and repetition to really master a form.  If I had more spare time, I'd try to come up with specific bunkai to teach for the Korean forms.  I have books from both Mr. Anslow and Mr. Abernathy to provide ideas, and of course I can use existing bunkai I learned from the shorin-ryu forms that could be applied in similar sequences.


Shorin-Ryu
Pinan 1-5
Naihanchi 1-3
Passai
Ananku
Rohai 

Goju-Ryu
Sanchin
Gekisai 1-3
Saifa
Seisan
Seipai
Seiunchin
Tenchi
Seiryu
Tensho

Taekwondo
Pyong An 2
Pyong An 4

Kobudo
Tokomine No Kon
Urashi No kon
Shishi No Kon

Hua Quan
18 Lo Han Hands


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## chinto (Sep 11, 2007)

Kosho Gakkusei said:


> When considering how many Kata you practice, do you look at differing levels ie. Shodan, Nidan as portions of the same Kata or as a Kata in themselves?
> 
> I usually tell people that I practice almost 30 Kata (29 to be precise) but that's with counting Shodans, Nidans, -Shos, & Dais, etc. If I look at them as segments of the same Kata then it's really 12.
> 
> ...


 


I do 19 and I am a brown belt. working on the others.. there are 22  empty hand kata in the system and I must know them all and s at least 6 or so kubudo/koujitsu kata to test for shodan-ho. All the kata must be polished and your head in the right place too... and I know about 5 kobujitsu/kobudo kata as well. In the system I am learning and studing you must know all the empty hand kata and at least some of the weapons kata to teast for shodan-ho ( probationary shodan rank).


I got a long way to go..... 

Of course when you get to the dansha rank, you start over ...


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## TimoS (Sep 14, 2007)

At the moment I'm doing 7 kata, out of about 20. Not sure of the exact number, since I've only recently "defected" from japanese to okinawan karate and therefore I have to relearn all the kata (and learn some new ones also). Now I'm also considering taking some kobudo alongside the karate lessons, so the number will probably increase quite a lot


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## Kosho Gakkusei (Sep 14, 2007)

Very interesting responses but my original question is: What is the right way to look at it as different Kata or segments of a bigger Kata?
For example:
Is the Pinan 1 Kata done in 5 segments or is it 5 Kata.  The thought that I have is that each series of Kata teaches a particular lesson but the segments are expansion for further study.  I'm starting to look at it as being 1 Kata with 5 segments as I'm less concerned with learning how to perform the movements and studying how to use them.  What are your thoughts?  Are the different segments just to take the Kata and break into bite size peices to make it easier to learn the movements?  Is Pinan 2 a new lesson or an expansion/addition to Pinan 1?

The empty handed Kata I study are 1. Juni Ippon (1-3), 2. Pinan (1-5), 3. Neko Buto (1-3), 4. Naihanchi (1-3), 5. Ennogyo (1-3), 6. Naihanno (2 variations), 7. Miyama (1-3), 8. Passai (major/minor), 9. Kusanku (major/minor), 10. Empi, 11. Gankaku, & 12. Shudoso.  Depentding on how you look at it, counting segments/variations as Kata there are 29 but if I count segments as portions of a Kata there are only 12?  I used to think 29 but now I'm inclined to look at it as 12.

_Don Flatt


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## twendkata71 (Sep 14, 2007)

I practice and teach 40 kata, including different varations of the same kata from the four major styles of Japanese karate do as well as Okinawan kata that I learn from Shorin ryu.
fukyugata 1&2,Pinan 1-5,Naihanchi 1-3,wansu,ananko,chinto,chinte,gankaku,seienchin,seyunchin,bassai dai(WKF/Shito ryu),Bassai dai(Shotokan), Koryu passai, Chibanna Kusanku,kanku dai, kanku sho,Gojushiho dai, gojushiho sho,koryu goju yonpo, empi, wansu, wankan, sochin,seipai, suparempei, sanchin,nijushiho,kosokun dai, kosokun sho, jion, Giin,ueseishi,unsu. 
I made the effort to learn all of these kata with the idea that it would give me an endless curriculum of techniques to teach my students and for me to train with. I just have a great thirst for knowledge in my journey.


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## Brandon Fisher (Sep 14, 2007)

I practice and teach 19 kata not including kobudo and I am adding one more.
Taikiyoku Shodan
Fukyugata Shodan & Nidan
Pinan Shodan - Godan
Naihanchi Shodan - Sandan
Passai Sho & Dai
Wanshu
Seisan
Jion
Gojushiho
Kusanku
Hakutsuru
Chinto


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## TimoS (Sep 14, 2007)

Kosho Gakkusei said:


> What is the right way to look at it as different Kata or segments of a bigger Kata?



At least at the moment I tend to think of all kata as a different lesson, independent of others. Pinan series might be considered part of a bigger entity, but then again, as some of my more experienced friends have pointed out, the first two Pinan seem to be from a totally different set than the last three (or was it the first three and last two, can't honestly remember anymore).

Oh and the kata that is in our curriculum:

Fukuygata 1&2, Seisan, Ananku, Wansu, Gojushiho, Passai, Wanchin, Chinto, Kusanku, Tokumine no kun, Pinan 1-5, Naifanchi 1-3, Jion and Passai Guwa (aka Motobu no Passai). So far I've learned the "outer form" of  Fukyugata 1 to Passai (by the outer form I mean that I can do the form adequately, but the actual bunkai is still something I need to learn. I copied that expression from my former sensei). All the kata from Pinan 1 onwards are apparently considered to be additional kata and therefore not part of the core curriculum, but I think we're still required to know them


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## terryl965 (Sep 14, 2007)

Me and the wife do about forty three, my oldest son does roughly fifty two, my two youngest sons know around twenty five.


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## JWLuiza (Sep 14, 2007)

That is one way to look at it, however, I think the Pinan/Heian/Pyong Ahn each have their own lessons and are orthagonal to each other.  So I would consider each a unit unto itself.  For example, the work in Pinan Samdan/Pyong Ahn Sadan is vastly different than the techniques in Pinan Godan...

Of the three tekki/naihanchi, I only know the first two, but the oyo are so different, that i would consider them different as well.

your thoughts?


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## jks9199 (Sep 14, 2007)

Gosh...

I feel like a piker.

I, with varying degrees of emphasis, practice or have learned about 10 forms, including weapon forms.  I'm not counting punching sequence drills, stance drills, and the like. I feel I know about 3 of those forms pretty well; another 3 fairly well...  and the rest?  I can do them.  I'm still finding new things in the very first form we teach...


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## Brandon Fisher (Sep 15, 2007)

jks9199 said:


> Gosh...
> 
> I feel like a piker.
> 
> I, with varying degrees of emphasis, practice or have learned about 10 forms, including weapon forms. I'm not counting punching sequence drills, stance drills, and the like. I feel I know about 3 of those forms pretty well; another 3 fairly well... and the rest? I can do them. I'm still finding new things in the very first form we teach...


 
Don't feel bad I have picked these up over the past 21 years.  The first time I ever did Naihanchi Shodan was in 1986 then I didn't do it again until 1992 when I went to Indiana.


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## chinto (Sep 17, 2007)

Brandon Fisher said:


> Don't feel bad I have picked these up over the past 21 years. The first time I ever did Naihanchi Shodan was in 1986 then I didn't do it again until 1992 when I went to Indiana.


 

also some systems have more kata then others....  that is a factor I would say in how meany some may be doing too.


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## Brandon Fisher (Sep 17, 2007)

chinto said:


> also some systems have more kata then others.... that is a factor I would say in how meany some may be doing too.


No doubt.  Like Shito Ryu is one that has a lot of kata.


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## searcher (Sep 17, 2007)

I train quite a few, but that is mostly from studying multiple styles.


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## setboy (Sep 17, 2007)

Open hand
White belt beginner kata. I think it is close to one of the Taikiyoku or Pinan kata. 
Seisan
Seiunchin
Naihanchi
Wansu
Chinto
Sanchin
Kusanku
Sunsu

Kobudo 
Tokumine no Kun
Kusanku Sai
Urashi no Kun

so about 12


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## chinto (Sep 18, 2007)

Brandon Fisher said:


> No doubt. Like Shito Ryu is one that has a lot of kata.


 
yes and so does shobayashi, but some other systems have less.


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## Brandon Fisher (Sep 18, 2007)

chinto said:


> yes and so does shobayashi, but some other systems have less.


Just out of curiousity how many does Shobayashi have.  I know most Shorin ryu systems have between 11 and 18 empty hand.


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## searcher (Sep 18, 2007)

Brandon Fisher said:


> Just out of curiousity how many does Shobayashi have. I know most Shorin ryu systems have between 11 and 18 empty hand.


 

I believe that Shobayashi has 24-26 kata.   I am about 95% sure.


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## Flying Crane (Sep 18, 2007)

I have a basic form for Tibetan White Crane, but it has 6 different variations to it, and I know five, and practice 4 regularly.  I guess I could count this anywhere from 1 to 5 forms.

Another of the Crane forms is very very long, so in the 1950s it was broken into two separate forms.  I practice them separately, as well as together as one long form.  I have also developed my own variation of the first half, for purposes of my own, and practice that on top of the original version.  So I could count this as one, two, three, or even four forms.

I've got a Lohan form that my sifu modified for his own reasons.  He has taught it to me both ways, the traditional, and his version.

I've got a tai chi sword form that also has the original version, and my sifu's personal modifications.

How I count them generally depends on what kind of bragging rights I want 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 .  I could say I've got 13 forms right here, or I could just call it four.


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## truth_seeker87 (Sep 18, 2007)

I only practise 12 open handed Kata:

Naihanchi 1-3
Tomari Seisan
Pinan 1-5
Passai
Kusanku
Neiseishi

After the basic versions of the kata are learned, worked hard and refined, advanced versions of these Kata are practised. Also breaking down each Kata is vital to the practise. To borrow from Guiding Priinciple #8 from my art:

 "In the past a single kata was practised for three years. A long time ago a praticular master analyzed a kata for over ten years. Do not think you have mastered a Kata and become proud of your success. Pride will lead to hurt your achievement in both virtue and technique, hence pride can be like a poison to the world."

So taking from that I do not think it very beneficial to memorize many kata, rather build the skills and work the core principles a Kata teaches. 

Kobudo in alot of way assist your empty handed kata and have a lot of empty handed application. Also the practise of these weapons helps develop your body in ways that benefit the techniques one practises.

The Kobudo that I know right  now:
Bo: Bo Kihon
Sai: Kunishi no Sai
Tanbo: Tanbo Kihon
Chikizun Bo: Chizikun Bo no Kata

There are alot more to learn but I want to go at a slow and steady pace with learning a Kata. No need to rush if it takes a life time to master.


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## JWLuiza (Sep 18, 2007)

Flying Crane said:


> I have a basic form for Tibetan White Crane, but it has 6 different variations to it, and I know five, and practice 4 regularly.  I guess I could count this anywhere from 1 to 5 forms.
> 
> Another of the Crane forms is very very long, so in the 1950s it was broken into two separate forms.  I practice them separately, as well as together as one long form.  I have also developed my own variation of the first half, for purposes of my own, and practice that on top of the original version.  So I could count this as one, two, three, or even four forms.
> 
> ...



Thanks for bringing it back to the OPs question 

I get more and more interested in Kung Fu the more I learn about Tang Soo Do and the origins of Karate.

I'm seeking a Yang 88 move teacher.


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## chinto (Sep 19, 2007)

searcher said:


> I believe that Shobayashi has 24-26 kata. I am about 95% sure.


 
we have 22 open hand in the system and 4 other empty hand kata that most people learn as well before shodan ho.. plus at least the  9 bo kata and some of the 4 sai kata and 3 tunfa, 3 kama,2 eku,2 tekko, 2 nunchuku that I can think of off hand, and a few others I dont know of I am sure.   I dont know all the weapons kata, but I do know that some of them are kinda tought to people who seem to enjoy them and fit them ..  I will eventualy learn them all I am sure.
of the kobudo/kobujitsu kata I know  5 pretty well and one sorta..
and know some other weapons katas.. but any way not as well as I would like.


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## chinto (Sep 19, 2007)

Flying Crane said:


> I have a basic form for Tibetan White Crane, but it has 6 different variations to it, and I know five, and practice 4 regularly. I guess I could count this anywhere from 1 to 5 forms.
> 
> Another of the Crane forms is very very long, so in the 1950s it was broken into two separate forms. I practice them separately, as well as together as one long form. I have also developed my own variation of the first half, for purposes of my own, and practice that on top of the original version. So I could count this as one, two, three, or even four forms.
> 
> ...


I wonder how close to Hakutsuru the tibetan  crane form is.. or perhaps it should be the other way around?  any way wonder how close the kata are..


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## TimoS (Sep 19, 2007)

chinto said:


> we have 22 open hand in the system and 4 other empty hand kata that most people learn as well before shodan ho..



So by shodan you need to have learned 26 kata? That's a huge amount. Is the rest of the time, i.e. upper black belts spent digesting and perfecting what has been learned?

For us, it doesn't go like that, because we're not taught e.g. Chinto until we've reached nidan, that is, unless someone agrees to teach it to you beforehand. From my previous style I have some knowledge how that might look, but e.g. the bunkai is something I have no knowledge about


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## Brandon Fisher (Sep 19, 2007)

searcher said:


> I believe that Shobayashi has 24-26 kata. I am about 95% sure.


 


chinto said:


> we have 22 open hand in the system and 4 other empty hand kata that most people learn as well before shodan ho.. plus at least the 9 bo kata and some of the 4 sai kata and 3 tunfa, 3 kama,2 eku,2 tekko, 2 nunchuku that I can think of off hand, and a few others I dont know of I am sure. I dont know all the weapons kata, but I do know that some of them are kinda tought to people who seem to enjoy them and fit them .. I will eventualy learn them all I am sure.
> of the kobudo/kobujitsu kata I know 5 pretty well and one sorta..
> and know some other weapons katas.. but any way not as well as I would like.


 
Thanks to both of you.  Though its a lot of kata its not really for a life of study it is when you try to learn it all in a short time but not overtime a lifetime.


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## Flying Crane (Sep 19, 2007)

chinto said:


> I wonder how close to Hakutsuru the tibetan crane form is.. or perhaps it should be the other way around? any way wonder how close the kata are..


 
I expect they are actually worlds apart.

There are a couple different Crane systems in Chinese arts, and they are completely different methods, with separate histories, and vastly different techniques.

Tibetan White Crane was developed in Tibet by Lamas, and later brought into China.  It went by several names, Lion's Roar as a tribute to the Buddha, then Lama Pai, or "style of the Lamas", then Hop Gar, or "hero's style", and it didn't pick up the name White Crane until around the 1940s or 1950s.  Some of these others still exist as sister arts.  They are very similar in certain ways, but they have branched and gone in different directions.

Fukien White Crane is also known as Southern Shaolin White Crane.  This art traces roots to the Southern Shaolin Temple, and is completely different from the Tibetan White Crane.  This is the system that has influenced the development of the fighting arts of Okinawa and Japan.  

I have heard of other White Crane arts, such as White Crane of Omei, but I don't know anything about it.

It seems that vastly different arts sometimes end up with a similar name.  The developers of the different art apparently focused on a different aspect of the crane, developed the art as they saw fit, and gave it a name that made sense to them.  

I found a clip on youtube, of one of our forms in Tibetan White Crane.  Unfortunately, it seems the Tibetan Crane is sort of rare on youtube, and examples are not very good.  I don't feel this example is very high quality, it's actually pretty sloppy, but at least it will give you an example of what the system is like, very long range punching, lots of movement, very energetic, very arobic and athletic and exhausting.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ztMa0iRLQhg&mode=related&search=


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## Seeking Zen (Sep 19, 2007)

**Beware of my Spelling**

Well ...I just received my Blue Belt last Night !!! (applause)

Here is my present Kata List ( Kobudo, and Soft/ Internal Arts (Tai Chi, Bagwa ETC.) not included

Taikiyoku Gedan

Taikiyoku ChudanTaikiyoku JodanTaikiyoku Soto ChudanTaikiyoku MawashukiTaikiyoku KokukiGekisai Itch

Gekisai NiSanchinWansuTenshoSaifaBassa Dai*Learning Next*Sanchin TenshoSeiunchin

Senseru


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## Brandon Fisher (Sep 19, 2007)

Congratulations on your blue belt.


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## Seeking Zen (Sep 20, 2007)

Thanks!!


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## chinto (Sep 21, 2007)

Seeking Zen said:


> **Beware of my Spelling**
> 
> Well ...I just received my Blue Belt last Night !!! (applause)
> 
> ...


 
can I ask out of curiosity.. what style/art you study??


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## Seeking Zen (Sep 21, 2007)

I train Goju...however we train several "foreign" kata and both Goju Kai and Goju Ryu Versions of several Goju Kata.


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## chinto (Sep 24, 2007)

Seeking Zen said:


> I train Goju...however we train several "foreign" kata and both Goju Kai and Goju Ryu Versions of several Goju Kata.


 

kool... as far as "foreign kata"  we all learn semperemie and a few other goju kata and a few of the matsumura seito if for no other reason then sensei knows them and thinks they reinforce some of the lessons in our other kata.. usualy about brown belt level.. I learned superempei at green belt level .. in that we ( the whole class ) basicly learned it .. not to polish of course, but learned its patern and such at the same time.


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## Fiendlover (Mar 3, 2008)

i uasually say how many forms i do.

like tioga for example.  there r four tiogas but they're bascically the same thing except for some different punches or block so technically its one kata but i usually say 4.
:idunno:


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## shoshinkan (Mar 4, 2008)

I train and teach the following -

Pinan Sho, Ni
Naihanchi Sho, Ni

Passai
Chinto
Useishi
Kusanku

Soken No Bo 
Soken No Sai 
Jian No Kata

I train the following as supplimental kata -

Sanchin

So my awnser is 12 kata worked regulary and studied.

I can step through others but they are not part of my core training or interest really.

I DETEST learniong varients on a kata, prefering to stick to one format (which evolves as understanding deepens and broadens) and learning from there, I realise im odd and simple like that but there you go.

There are a couple of other kata that suppliment this list that I havent learnt yet of course, but im in no rush to learn them!


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## Rabu (Mar 22, 2008)

When I performed Japanese sytem sets I have a list of about 53 "forms", counting the individual segments of a kata set that I was practicing.  That wasnt including any weapons forms at all.

Currently I practice, poorly, the following Taolu from Northern Shaolin:

Shr Er Lu Tan Tui
Lien Bu
Duan Da
Mei Hua....

Weapons would include broadsword and staff.

One of the people in the school joined because his main school of practice required that he learn a set from another style to progress... 

Shr Er Lu Tan Tui is "Twelve line Tan's Leg" as poorly translated as it can be.  He learned line one....and earned his masters degree from his main style by doing so.

It took two years of daily work to complete Tan Tui to Shifu's satisfaction.  This was in addition to working on basics and learning about the differences in Chinese application from the Japanese/American centric practice I came from.

Tan Tui would not even be classed as a 'form', but rather an excercise set.  You should not see people performing Tan Tui for a tournament in competition, from my understanding.  I am sure there are others out there who would disagree.  How depressed might you be if you spent years learning a form only to find out its only an excercise set?

You learn Tan Tui so that you know the basics well enough to perform the sets which come next.

So I would say that I practice very few sets these days, and less frequently than I did when I was younger and newer to martial arts.

My understanding from my previous study was that each 'series' of kata were a single form, broken out to show specific types of Waza and Bunkai based on the changes from set to set.  The Penan sets are a good example, using the same type of formation and movements working to different angles.

Just a few pennies from a pig,

Rob


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## arnisador (Mar 22, 2008)

Kosho Gakkusei said:


> When considering how many Kata you practice, do you look at differing levels ie. Shodan, Nidan as portions of the same Kata or as a Kata in themselves?



I always counted them separately--they seemed different enough to me.


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## Jin Gang (Mar 22, 2008)

When you are first learning, the five pinan or the three naihanchi, or other similar kata like this definately feel like seperate kata.  You're learning new techniques constantly, and each one feels like a big step forward.  
As time goes on, perceptions change.

I count the three naihanchi as the same kata.  You could easily perform them one after the next without a break, and they are very short in length individually.  They contain the same footwork and techniques.  Some Chinese styles teach forms like this, as well, breaking them into short sections.
I don't count the basics training exercises as kata or forms at all (even though they might be called kata).  taikyoku and fukyugata I feel are in this category.  

When counting the number of forms I practice, I count the larger forms/systems, not the sectional breakdowns.  
Of shorin ryu, I stick with 8 kata. That would be 10 if I counted naihanchi as three instead of one. 
Of Chinese/Indonesian style, I am maintaining 15 emptyhand forms.
If I counted all the sections of forms that I learned individually, there would be more like 23 forms.


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## JWLuiza (Mar 23, 2008)

I think a more interesting question is: How are patterns stored in memory?  This also brings up the question: How are forms learned?

I am going to hazard a guess that Pinans and Taikyoku kata are stored as individual forms. And maybe we get better compression, if I can analogize to digital data, as we progress. 

For example, when I learned the moves to Gojushiho, it took about 45 minutes because I associated large chunks as one unit that referenced forms I already knew. However, now I have a cognitive unit of "Gojushiho Dai"


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## Jin Gang (Mar 23, 2008)

Yes, the longer patterns are learned more quickly when they include portions which we have already memorized.  
  I guess I would have to ask what is the definition of a "form" or "kata".  Technically, any memorized sequence of movemente could be a kata or a form.  Two techniques strung together and practiced the same way repeatedly is a kata.  In my kung fu style we have what we call a series of "short forms", which are each made up of two to five movements.  These movements are considered the "basics", and are practiced like kihon in some styles, they occur in different combinations in many of the long forms.  There are also qinna techniques, each of which might be considered a form, just like judo has "kata".  I could count each memorized sequence of grappling holds, escapes and counters as a form.  Also, there are two person patterns, "one step sparring" drills, or prearranged fighting sequences that include three moves each.  
If I counted all these patterns I have learned, then I know well over 100 forms!  So the question is, what are we really meaning when we ask "how many kata"?  I think that most people are thinking of kata as more than just the technical definition/usage of the word.  
  People think of a kata as a sequence with some minimum number of techniques/steps included.  Just two moves together wouldn't qualify.  You may consider that each kata presents some sort of overall fighting strategy, each one has a different "style".  And also, of course, whatever your school or teacher chose to call a "kata" is a kata.  If it's a grading requirement, then it's a "kata".  

What I call a kata or form, in this case, is a sequence of techniques of some unspecified minimum length (more than 2 - 5 moves), which presents a certain fighting style or practices a method of force/energy generation (often both).  This is why I call the three naihanchi as one kata, not three.  This is why they say it is hard to really master just one or two kata.  Each style has so many lessons and techniques to learn, you could really just focus on one or two and still have a "complete" style.


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## rmclain (Mar 24, 2008)

I study a system called Chayon-Ryu, meaning "Natural Way."  Though the founder, Grandmaster Kim Pyung-soo, is Korean, this is not a system of Taekwondo.  He grew up during the Japanese occupation of Korea and learned karate and Chuan-fa at the Chang-moo Kwan and learned forms from each style.  He adopted 11 taekwondo forms when they were created (1967), but the majority of the forms are from karate and chuan-fa.

Since this is a karate section, I will list the karate forms we practice up to 5th Dan.  I'll use the Korean names, but will insert the Japanese and Okinawan names where I know them.

Kibon Hyung 1-5 (Kihon kata)
Pyung Ahn 1-5 (Heian, Pinan)
Shipsoo (Jut-te)
Balsek Tae (Bassai Dai)
Balsek Sho (Bassai So)
No Nai (Ro Hai)
Ahm Hak (Chinto)
Chulki 1-3 (Tekki, Naihanchi)
Wanshu (Enpi)
Cha'un (Jion)
Ban Wol (Hangetsu)
Kong Son Kun (Kusanku Dai)
Ship Pal (Sei Pai)
Oh Ship Sa Bo (Gojushiho)
Jinsoo

R. McLain


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## eyebeams (Mar 28, 2008)

Yukigainen (which is not really kata as most people think of it)
Shihangata (which again, is not really kata as most people think of it)
Kennin (never seen this one anywhere else)
Seisan (nothing like the standard karate Seisan)
Naihanchi (not the same as the typical karate Naihanchi)

There are two more sets in the system, along with armed kobudo, which I have some familiarity with.

What else do I know? From kung fu:

The Yang 24 set
Xingyiquan linking fist 
Mizongluohan Tantui (a version of 12-road Tantui)
Gongliquan (Another typical Jingmo set with a Mizong flavour)

I have sketchy memories of forms from various other arts I've done, but my current concentrations are in Kempo, JKD, Mizongluohan and Xingyiquan, and MMA.

I would say that Kennin, Seisan, Tantui and linking fist are where I go first to explore applications.

I suppose all the arts I currently study would have a combined 16 or so empty handed forms. This is not a lot and pretty much what I prefer.


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