# Have you notice how many BB quits?



## still learning (Feb 24, 2006)

Hello, Have you notice how many people reach Black belt than quit shortly there after?

Why do you think alot of them quit?   Is it because they do not believe in themselves?          .........................Aloha


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## Rich Parsons (Feb 24, 2006)

still learning said:
			
		

> Hello, Have you notice how many people reach Black belt than quit shortly there after?
> 
> Why do you think alot of them quit? Is it because they do not believe in themselves? .........................Aloha



A friend of mine once told me, and I believe this is one of those facts mis-quoted over time, that 1% of thsoe who start stay long enough to earn a black belt in a system. Of thsoe who earned a Black Belt, only 1% stay to go on further. Or 0.0001% of those who start go on. 

So, it could be life, like job move, or career time, or kids, and family. 

Or it could be they have a desire to find something less painful to get their exercise as they get older. 

For those who make BB and then leave soon after or a short while after, it could be that they have reached a goal, and see that the return for the effort put in is not worth it to them. And they might see others pass them by, and their ego might be a little out of shape.


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## evenflow1121 (Feb 24, 2006)

Its complicated, I think for the most part there is this belief mainly in the west that once you achieve a bb you have achieved the main goal of the system.  In reality a BB means a lot of different things in each particular system, in some styles it just means you have an adept understanding of the basics, while in other systems it just means you are a fighter. A lot of times, instructors themselves do not do a very good job of explaining what the bb really means in their system and students automatically believe that they have accomplished the most difficult part of their training.  They never get to the 'real stuff' because they quit shortly after.  Training itself goes through different phases and you lose students through each phase, you lose a lot of students in the begining, and some in the middle and some in the advanced and then some at the bb level.  Very few usually hang around or are dedicated enough to continue on to dan ranking or master even.  Sometimes ego can also be an issue, you may have worked your tail off only to see another individual pass you because he or she is more talented, its important for the student to understand that you work with the tools that God gives you and that you should try to be the best person or martial arts practitioner you can be for yourself (self improvement) not the best all around--sometimes this can be frustrating for some students.  However, sometimes its just life, college, marriage, a higher paying jobs, children are all outside factors that may get in the way.


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## Kacey (Feb 24, 2006)

I would tend to agree with evenflow's anaylsis.  Many students see black belt as an ending rather than a beginning - following the emotional high and subsequent let-down after testing for black belt, many students lose their enthusiam - especially in systems in which the time for testing increases steadily between black belt ranks.

Some students continue to attend class through momentum - by black belt, they have been coming to class for at least several years, and attending class has become a habit.  Some of these students will regain their enthusiasm as time goes on, but many will drop out - after II Dan, if not sooner.

Some students move on to other styles - they remain active martial artists, but want to explore other styles.  These students will often garner belts in multiple systems, and continue for long periods of time.

The students who continue because they love the martial art in which they participate for the art itself, not the rank they have (or might) attain - these are the students who show up to every possible class, who help because they want to and not because of any requirements imposed from above about involvement, who continue whether they expect to ever test again or not (due to injury, age, disability, physical debility, 
etc. - any factors that prevent them from attaining further rank) - and they are, in general (at least in my opinion), the students who become the best instructors.


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## Grenadier (Feb 24, 2006)

Rich Parsons said:
			
		

> A friend of mine once told me, and I believe this is one of those facts mis-quoted over time, that 1% of thsoe who start stay long enough to earn a black belt in a system. Of thsoe who earned a Black Belt, only 1% stay to go on further. Or 0.0001% of those who start go on.


 
That's actually fairly accurate, from what all of my current and former teachers have told me.  

The number / ratio will vary from system to system, that maybe 1 out of every 50 people who start get their black belt, and I've seen that ratio as "low" as 1 out of every 150 people.  

Out of everyone who does make Shodan, though, maybe 1 out of 25 to 1 out of 100 will make their nidan.  

Once someone makes nidan, it's usually a fairly good indicator that they're going to stick with you.


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## evenflow1121 (Feb 24, 2006)

In my case for example, college and grad school were primary factors, since I recently finished I d like to begin training again within the next six months or so.


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## cali_tkdbruin (Feb 25, 2006)

Some practitioners just simply get burned out with their MA, and they feel that they need a break. For example, my daughter started training when she turned 7 years old. She trained in MAs for over half of her life, she's now 16. She reached BB a while back, and now she's decided that she wants to do other things rather than the MAs. I accept her decision. Every once in a while she'll come to the dojang and work out with us, but it's not on a consistent basis like before.

Hopefully in a few more months, or in a couple of years when she goes to college she'll come back and start training again in the MAs. She'll be ready when and if she's ever ready.


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## tshadowchaser (Feb 25, 2006)

People have lives outside of the arts and many times things like WIFES, work and schools play a big oart in people leaveing the arts.   On the other hand some just get their BB and think they have learned it all or as dissatisfied withthe art they are in and leave
i have also heard that less than 1% ever make it to BB and most of them leave befor getting much further


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## Drac (Feb 25, 2006)

tshadowchaser said:
			
		

> On the other hand some just get their BB and think they have learned it all


 
Yeah that about says it all..


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## cali_tkdbruin (Feb 26, 2006)

Drac said:
			
		

> Yeah that about says it all..



Yep, but unfortunately they haven't learned it all. It's always goes back to that worn out statement which is so true, "_Earning a black belt is only the  beginning of your serious study of your martial art._" 

I remember at my first BB test, the highest ranking master on the testing panel told all of us BB candidates that "A black belt only means that you've mastered the basics. It's like the foundation of a house, from there you build up on it." I guess that's why I keep going back to learn more, because the study is really infinite.


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## Cirdan (Feb 26, 2006)

The fact that in many schools black belts are expexted to teach might also be a factor why they quit. Being an instructor requires more of you and many find it easier and refreshing to try a new art.


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## AceHBK (Feb 26, 2006)

cali_tkdbruin said:
			
		

> *"A black belt only means that you've mastered the basics. It's like the foundation of a house, from there you build up on it." I guess that's why I keep going back to learn more, because the study is really infinite.*


 
Exactly. I got the same quote from my Master


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## MJS (Feb 26, 2006)

Cirdan said:
			
		

> The fact that in many schools black belts are expexted to teach might also be a factor why they quit. Being an instructor requires more of you and many find it easier and refreshing to try a new art.


 
I agree with this.  There was a time when I found myself doing more teaching than training, and I have to admit, I was getting a bit burned out.  That however, did not stop me from training.  

I would have to say that many people probably think that once they reach BB, they're done with the learning.  While they may not be learning a new tech., they should be re-examining their old material.

Mike


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## FearlessFreep (Feb 26, 2006)

AceHBK said:
			
		

> Exactly. I got the same quote from my Master



I usually equate it to have a Bachelor's Degree.  On the one hand, it's no small effort to ge there and shows dedication and perseverance to get it and one who has a Degree knows a lot more about the subject than one who doesn't, but on the other hand, it just means you know the basics and it's time to go out and apply what you've learned in a profession.  to me, it's no small amoount of effort and time to reach  the BB level and those  who have done so should be respected for what they've accomplished and what hey can do, but on the other hand,it just means it's time to take all the training and apply it to real mastery


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## kroh (Feb 27, 2006)

Just like it was stated earlier, the whole belt system (which America needs to either trash or revise), is much like the education system.  You have learned a certain degree but it is not an impossible feat.  You have learned the equivalent of a High School Diploma and can now enter a more specialized study.  Many people graduate high school.  Less go on to college.  Less to Graduate School.  Etc.  

Part of the reason why many people who study martial arts in this country stop near or after the BB level is because they see it as a goal oriented course.  Like going to college, as long as they took the course and received the appropriate level and ranking, there is only a need for an occaisional brush up if any.  The thing that people don't realize is that like any other muscle ingrained skill, this has to be practiced constantly for there to be any benefit.  

The other thing that causes many to fall out when reaching that level is the attainability of these "courses." today.  Back in the day in other countries it was a real pain in the butt to get accepted for martial training if you were not a part of the "family" or group that the art belonged to.  The Head Honcho would pass the skills onto the members of his house and employees he saw fit to take this type reponsibility.  If you were an outsider it was really hard to get into this type of training.  Joining the familiy military only guaranteed you saw the basics and anything higher required "officer" or family status.  People tend to value something more if they had to fight to acheive it.  Walking up a flight of stairs when you are fifty pounds overwieght is not really that much of an acheivement.  Climbing Mt Everest after you have lost 200 pounds, got in shape, and then made the climb is something to savor.  Martial arts are really no different.  

I have met tons of people who said they took martial arts training back in the day and got to this and that belt.  If that sense of accomplishment fills them with pride and fuels who they are, then good for them.  It is a milestone that provides the backing for a part of who they are.  I know others who have been training for 3 months and some who have been training for thirty years and for them, mediocrity is not an option.  It will be a life long persuit.  And that is why people stop.  They don't realize that you can never, summit...you only can keep climbing.

Regards, 
Walt


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## searcher (Mar 3, 2006)

As may have already been stated.  Most quit because they think they have reached the limit, the pinnacle of their martial walk.   I have lost only a few, but I have only a handful of BB's.    I have left schools for varying reasons, but I still maintain my training routines for each style.    It is a very sad reality that people tend to not see anything through.


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## Cirdan (Mar 3, 2006)

I find it more than a little odd that a 1.dan would think he/she has reached the limit. I mean, shouldn`t they know better? Their rank considered and all. :idunno:


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## cali_tkdbruin (Mar 4, 2006)

Cirdan said:
			
		

> I find it more than a little odd that a 1.dan would think he/she has reached the limit. I mean, shouldn`t they know better? Their rank considered and all. :idunno:



Ignorance is bliss I guess. But even me, a dumbass, knew since I was a lower gup color belt that once you reach 1st dan black, it's all good but you're so far from being a master martial artist. The study of martial arts like many things in life is infinite.

Holy crapola did I just throw in a bit of cali's wisdom... :uhyeah:


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## searcher (Mar 4, 2006)

Cirdan said:
			
		

> I find it more than a little odd that a 1.dan would think he/she has reached the limit. I mean, shouldn`t they know better? Their rank considered and all. :idunno:


 
You would think so, but society has made everyone think that the BB is the pinnacle to achieve.   It is the soccer mom mentality.   Lets get this so we can add it to juniors resume of thngs he has done.   This way he/she can ahve bragging rights over their peers when they egt older and so mom and dad can have them now.   We have created a society of weiners.    It is not only on the BB level.   I once had a green eblt say that he had exhausted the knowledge of the instructor that we happened to be training under at the time.   Soooooo sad.


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## beau_safken (Mar 5, 2006)

Well there is one other thing you guys didn't touch on yet.

"Tuition paid till your a black belt contracts"

I had one of those in TKD and I was getting skipped ahead in belts.  It wasn't like I didn't deserve to as I was there all the time and teaching.  But still I was like...huh?  So I got to recommended black belt and pretty much was like....I don't think I have enough knowledge to continue as I have only been at it for 2 years.  My master didn't like that as told me to either test or leave..So I left.  

Financial reasons are a major reason most Mc-Dojo's promote the BB and also get students up to it as soon as possible.  They know that in today's society there is no need for a spinning jump cresent kick to the side of the head.  But there is a real need for instructors to keep a roof above their heads and fresh meat in the doors.  That 1 in 50 to BB looks about right, but the real bread and butter is the 49 who didnt make it.  Thats 49 people that never needed to take resources or take time from the instructor to get to BB as stated in their contract.

Beau


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## stone_dragone (Jun 1, 2006)

Another reason that some folks might not continue with their training after reaching black belt is a lack of "material" beyond black belt...meaning that even though there is a universe of information, their particular school might only teach a curriculum up to black belt and, following black belt, the student has to take the initiative to learn more in almost a self-taught manner.

my two bits...


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## Robert Lee (Jun 1, 2006)

Youth and teen age students. Well they grow up go to college get a job get merried have children. Some come back later some just loose interest. I have seen more adults that start and stay with the M/A traing because they have a life sarted and found time for something else. You will see far more students sart and quit befor ever making a black belt. As they find it is work and they are not as ready as the thought.  Its all most 100 or 300 to 1 for every person that stays long enough to make black belt. Thats if they go to a school that does not give away belts. And spend the 3 to 5 years of learning.


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## pstarr (Jun 3, 2006)

Yes, I think that many of them feel that they're finally "experts" and that's that.  We all (I hope) know better and it's important to get it across to students that shodan is just the beginning!  It means that you've finally figured out how to do the basics correctly and now you're ready to learn the real art.


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## Edmund BlackAdder (Jun 4, 2006)

Too many people see "black belt" as the destination, rather than the beginning. It is the hobbiest mentality that pervades things, I think.


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## trueaspirer (Jun 4, 2006)

I think that for a lot of people, it is because they give up. Maybe for some it is too hard, or too time-consuming, but mainly I belive that people just stop caring. They don't have the dedication or determination to keep going, and switch to other activites. Many of these people just tried martial arts as a hobby, without any real goal or commitment.


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## Dark (Jun 4, 2006)

There is another thing you haven't considered. That some belt systems godan was the highest level of achievement for a living person. Everyone above 5th dan was award those ranks after death. Other only achieve 6st and 7th Dans through excelling beyond the norm and 8th dans are considered the highest level achieved.

  Some situations, say a system where godan is the highest one will achieve, a shodan means a great deal...


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## Explorer (Jun 4, 2006)

climbing my mountain
peering over the summit
another mountain


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## Gman (Jun 9, 2006)

I can say why *I* don't train as much as I used to, and maybe my experience is completely off the wall compared to others', but I just don't have as much time as I used to.

Since I recieved my BB, I've gotten married, bought a house, and started a business.

The others that stopped going generally moved, or couldn't train any longer due to time constraints as well.

I'd guess that time constraints and moving are two of the biggest reasons.


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## Steve Nugent (Jun 9, 2006)

I quit about a year after receiving my Black Belt. I quit at the time because I could no longer aford to spend the 30 hours a week that I was spending in the dojo. I needed to begin my career, I was newly married. But I always felt that I had much more to learn. So after a nine year break I came back, I now have the ability to balance my professional life, my home life, with my love for Martial Arts.


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## Flying Crane (Jun 9, 2006)

Steve Nugent said:
			
		

> I quit about a year after receiving my Black Belt. I quit at the time because I could no longer aford to spend the 30 hours a week that I was spending in the dojo. I needed to begin my career, I was newly married. But I always felt that I had much more to learn. So after a nine year break I came back, I now have the ability to balance my professional life, my home life, with my love for Martial Arts.


 
Welcome back.

Keep in mind, you don't need to be training 30 hours a week.  If you train 1 or 2 hours a day consistently, you will maintain your skills and not overload your time with training.  Home and career still get the time and attention that they need.


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## stone_dragone (Jun 9, 2006)

I tried quitting once in 2002.  I wasn't going anywhere with my training and felt that I was only practicing because I didn't know anything else...just doing it to pass the time.



It lasted 10 minutes, 37 seconds...


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## fnorfurfoot (Jun 9, 2006)

I didn't quit the Martial Arts, I just quit my instructor.  I recieved my 4th Dan and stuck around with my instructor for four more years before I decided that I couldn't take his ego any more.  That and he hadn't taught me anything new in over a year.  I'm still active in the Martial Arts.  I have been teaching my own students for the past eight years.  That was another frustration.  I had my own business, I had to make special trips back to my instructor's school, and I got nothing out of it.


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## still learning (Jun 9, 2006)

Hello, Manly schools it is very easy to get a Black Belt. As time goes on you realize what it takes to be one.  (Very hard work..no stopping of training/excercise)

So when you received a black belt...sometimes there are disapointments. Expectations of BB is different than what you thought it was suppose to be.

I agree with most of the above comments, the time for more family and work, other things come up as you get older in life.  When you have kids it is you job to raise them and spend as much time with them in all their other activitives.

Things in you life just changes as you get older.  ........Aloha


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## Dark (Jun 9, 2006)

I want to go back to the old school, start with a white belt and when it turns black your a black belt. I have no real faith in Martial arts anymore since they seem to be adding 12th dans now. I don't put much stock in rank, unless its used as level of grading.


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## kelly keltner (Oct 3, 2007)

Once and a while you just realize it's time to hang up the uniform and find something else to do. I hung mine up a year or so ago and didn't look back. Except for reading a few forums once and a while for entertainment.

Kell


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## Darth F.Takeda (Oct 5, 2007)

The problem for our Dojo used to be that most of our students were Military before the war, so they would get transfered to another part of the country or world.

I remember sitting as the lowest rank person in line more than 10 years ago, and looking towards the 4 Black belts sitting to the legt of Sensei, and all the Blues, Yellows, Greens, and Browns in front of me and thinking that no mater what rank I would later acheive that I would always be sitting in the back.

Sadly, deployments, injuries, marital problems, burnouts, a death and the presistance of time have brought me to the #2 spot in the Dojo.

It still gets me though that many of my seniors are no longer with us and some who started before me made Shpdan, but did not put in the time training and teaching to reach Nidan as I have, I now outrank some of the people who were brown elts when I was a white.

I cant speak for those who did not have to move, go to war or have any real reason to stop training, that's their story and I bet they are all different. I can speak for why I have stayed.

#1- I still remeber that if I had stayed in TKD, I would have been a BB by 18, Once I found the Dojo and style I am with now, I told myself I would stick with it, even if there were times I was a bit bored with it or when work and romances tried to pull me away.

#2- Maybe a year after reaching Shodan, I was pretty wrapped up in starting my Kettlebell training bizz and of coarse mastering the tools thenselves, my relationship was in turmoil (and we had a Son, we have 3 now) so I did find myself sometimes going through the motions at class or sometimes skipping class alltogether. But I kept at it, I did not want to fade out and be one of those Shodan and gone types. I had put MA down before as a youth and I knew I lost out because of it and over time I fell back in love with Jujutsu and Martial arts.

#3- I have been blessed and luckey to train with my Sensi and late Sempai. Sensie Lamond is one of the few Traditional/Combat Jujutsu experts around and my late Sempai, Jim Tirey was an amazing martial artist, who even though he was very expeirienced and held BB in several systems as well as having trained all over the world as a Special Forces Officer. They both imparted alot of hard earned knowledge in me, I owe it to them to carry on, make it part of me and pass it along to others.
I cant leave, I will do Jujutsu and other MA untill I die.

#4- They might ban guns, outlaw knives and regulate combative training, but noone will ever strip my knowledge. An unarmed man is a Peseant, when you are the weapon, you are never unarmed and you will always have a chance.

#5- I have 2 son's and allthough much of modern society frowns upon such things, I think a man should know how to control, maim or kill other men, if the moment should arise. It's my duty to ensure they know how. They dont have to become Black belts, but they will know how to crush a windpipe, break a neck and throw an attacker on to his head.

#6- It' still alot of fun and it keeps me out of trouble. I am either working, doing MA, lifting Kettlebells and working out or at home. No time for bars.


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## tellner (Oct 5, 2007)

For a lot of people the Black Belt is the goal. That's the mystical Superman Point. Or it's just a convenient milestone which represents a level of skill they feel comfortable with. Once they've achieved the goal they lose interest in the hobby. There's nothing intrinsically wrong with that. People should have their own agendas. It's only when the goals are based on bad information, they can't realistically achieve them, or they can't change them as they grow that there's a problem. 

Looking back at the last oh-crap-has-it-really-been-sixteen years I realize that Tiel and I are the only two of Guru Plinck's original Portland students who are still with him. Narin might be coming back. Cotten and Steve Perry (the writer, not the singer) started a few years later. I think they're the only others who were with him before he ditched Bukti Negara. But Loren, Duc, Eric, "The Battle Dwarf", Chris Clarke, JD and the rest? They all quit or moved away. It's a shame. Some of them were really good. Cam had an excellent handle on it, but once he got engaged we never saw him again. 

Of the people who are still with the program most have been at it for several years. That's longer than most martial arts students stick with a single teacher. Some of that is obviously because of the demographics of the class. We're a bunch of old farts by martial arts standards - no kids class, only one or two teens, several on the sunny side of fifty. Some of it is the quality of the teacher. Steve Plinck really is an exceptional teacher, and I say that as someone who has known a number of very good instructors. Some of it is the nature of Silat; if you don't choose a really athletic new style it's something you can do for life. 

I'm convinced part of it is the _lack _of a rank system. With no set goal there's less of a tendency to say "I've gotten this piece of paper. Now would be a good time to stop." It's more a question of "Am I going to class this week? Why do I or don't I want to keep at it?" The focus is more internal than external. The guy leading class is the teacher. The rest are the students. 

It's easier to say "I got the coveted Black Belt after five years. Now I'll quit," than "I've learn six out of eighteen juru juru, twelve defensive and four offensive sambut sambut and he's not telling me to relax _every _class. That's good enough." One aspect of this is the cyclical nature of the training. Sera is a very small system. There isn't much curriculum. What changes is the quality of what you do. When you see the same stuff come back every few years but your understanding and body mechanics have changed each time there isn't quite the well defined stopping point that there is in many other arts.

Status - let's face it humans are status conscious animals - is based on time in grade and ability rather than the collection of certain colored tokens. That moves the discussion away from rank-chasing and into other areas. Oh, it's still there. "Oh that? You'll get that when you learn juru eight," or "The last time we did those was when we were still training in Cotten's garage." You can't escape the game. But the field it's played on has a different shape. 

We taught classes in North Portland for several years. We don't have teaching certificates or black belts. Our teacher just said "You want to teach some beginners?" Of course, after a while we'd say "You know, if you want better instruction Longview is less than an hour away." Pretty soon they were in the same class and we'd dumped the St. John's practice group entirely. That could have been a blow to the ego, but with a good attitude it doesn't even sting. If we'd had belts and fancy titles it might have been more of an issue. There would have been more of a sense of it being _our _school and them being _our _students.


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## thardey (Oct 5, 2007)

I had more than a "1st Black is just the beginning" speech -- I had it rammed home by example!

Right after I got my 1st black - my new uniform had just arrived, and I hadn't even worn it to class yet, I went to Las Vegas to help a friend of mine do a demonstration for his 5th Degree (master's) graduation ceremony.

Back at home I was proud of my new belt as I made that transition from "underbelt" to "Mr. Hardey", and all the congratulations and such, I felt pretty good about my achievement, as I should. 

But at Las Vegas, I was practicing for my part in the demonstration around 6 new 5th degrees, and being watched and helped by the 10 board members of our system -- the highest in our rank, up to and including Chuck Norris himself (our only 10th degree). Suddenly I felt like a white belt again, not in a bad, frustrating way, but in the feeling that there was still _sooooo much to learn_, that these guys had a lifetime of both knowledge and teaching experience, that it really raised the bar for me, and gave me a new goal, if less defined than a Black belt.

----------------
On another note, one thing that I have noticed in the year and a half that I've had a BB, is that if I were looking for some kind of social recognition for my achievement - you know extra respect for the BB, outside of the dojo, that I would have been sadly disappointed. 

Let's face it, for people who don't do Karate, most of them don't really care, or remember what rank you have. Other than the Hollywood legends about Karate, outside the dojo, a BB and $2.00 will get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks.

I think insecure people get a BB, and then parade out into the world to show it off for status, expecting the general public to treat you differently. When that doesn't happen, they get disillusioned, and set off to achieve some other goal that will get them they recognition they crave.

Others sometime have other goals that they put on hold until they get their BB, it doesn't really mean they've "quit" they're just developing themselves in a different way. Many people have a list of goals they want to accomplish in their lives. Getting a BB might be alongside of visting Europe, or learning to play a violin. It's a checkmark off of a list. The check is satisfied, time for another.

I quit Ballroom dancing for much the same reasons, I passed "bronze" level status in my favorite dances (I am proficient in 10 of the basic dances), and then changed my focus to Karate. Ballroom Dancing wasn't a lifetime commitment for me. I could be a "Gold" level dancer now, if I had put the same time and energy into dance that I had in Karate, but I had other things to do. Many of the people I danced with don't understand how Karate replaced dance, since they have no interest in anything other than dancing. I imagine that the same thing happens to people who leave Karate.


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## CoryKS (Oct 5, 2007)

Some people are "experience chasers".  They will flit from one activity to another in the belief that by constantly challenging themselves they are becoming better, more well-rounded people.  Perhaps, having achieved black belt, they will then train for a marathon.  Or climb Everest.  Or whatever.  I think there are those who want to be seen as "X, the accomplished pianist/martial artist/master chef".  At least they'll leave an interesting obituary.


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## thardey (Oct 5, 2007)

CoryKS said:


> Some people are "experience chasers".  They will flit from one activity to another* in the belief that by constantly challenging themselves they are becoming better, more well-rounded people.
> *



I don't think there's anything wrong with that in and of itself, but I fully agree with the following:



> Perhaps, having achieved black belt, they will then train for a marathon.  Or climb Everest.  Or whatever.  I think there are *those who want to be seen as *"X, the accomplished pianist/martial artist/master chef".  At least they'll leave an interesting obituary.


There's a huge difference between making the most of every opportunity, and wanting the *reputation* of having done "everything". One depends on what an individual wants out of life, the other is a mark of immaturity.

There's a good thread about this in "The Renaissance Man"


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## CoryKS (Oct 5, 2007)

thardey said:


> There's a huge difference between making the most of every opportunity, and wanting the *reputation* of having done "everything". One depends on what an individual wants out of life, the other is a mark of immaturity.
> 
> There's a good thread about this in "The Renaissance Man"


 

Exactly. Do you derive pleasure from the experience or do you derive pleasure from the prestige of having had the experience? And there's really nothing wrong with either, if that's what flips your switches. It's just one possible reason why BBs don't stay.


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## thardey (Oct 5, 2007)

CoryKS said:


> Exactly. Do you derive pleasure from the experience or do you derive pleasure from the prestige of having had the experience? And there's really nothing wrong with either, if that's what flips your switches. It's just one possible reason why BBs don't stay.



Yeah, people should be free and all that, it's just that some people give guys like me a bad image, so it annoys me.

Hmmph! The frustrations of having people pretending to be me!

:mrtoilet:


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## CoryKS (Oct 5, 2007)

thardey said:


> Yeah, people should be free and all that, it's just that some people give guys like me a bad image, so it annoys me.
> 
> Hmmph! The frustrations of having people pretending to be me!
> 
> :mrtoilet:


 

There can be only one!
/MacLeod


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## thardey (Oct 5, 2007)

CoryKS said:


> There can be only one!
> /MacLeod



Trust me, that's a good thing!


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## tellner (Oct 5, 2007)

As I alluded to earlier, it's also a matter of what you want.

Red Cross Advanced First Aid is enough for my needs. EMT certification would take way too much time and money for what I'll get out of it. A few technique classes are all I need to cook well at home. A year of chef's school would be overkill. 

Same with martial arts. If someone wants a few years, a fun hobby for a while, some exposure and a certain level of preparedness for dealing with two legged coyotes then a BB is realistic. Decades of dedicated study and harsh training, giving up sleep, income and a normal sex life would be insane.


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## thardey (Oct 5, 2007)

tellner said:


> As I alluded to earlier, it's also a matter of what you want.
> 
> Red Cross Advanced First Aid is enough for my needs. EMT certification would take way too much time and money for what I'll get out of it. A few technique classes are all I need to cook well at home. A year of chef's school would be overkill.
> 
> Same with martial arts. If someone wants a few years, a fun hobby for a while, some exposure and a certain level of preparedness for dealing with two legged coyotes then a BB is realistic. Decades of dedicated study and harsh training, giving up sleep, income and a normal sex life would be insane.




I think where MA kind of throws things off though is that it is more than a hobby to us. It's a life skill that we really hope to never need. If you take some cooking classes and stop, then never cook for 10 years, then you're out the training to took, but could refresh your memory with a little practice.

Self-defense, on the other hand, isn't something that you can "dust off and pull out" when you need it. It needs to stay fresh, or it's useless. It doesn't really matter what belt you have, you're always trying to prepare for the unthinkable.

For those who think of Karate as a hobby, then sure, they'll probably get their belts, then move on to something else, having enjoyed the experience and are ready for something different.



> it's also a matter of what you want.


Worth repeating again, (again?)


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## Andy_46 (Oct 28, 2007)

Hi

Unfortunately i'm fairly certain i'll have to quit my current class soon since i'm going to be changing jobs and may not be able to make it.  However with a bit of look i'll be able to afford a car so will be able to attend a class with the same club but at a different location.  Fingers crossed, i want my black belt ...... only 3 belts to go. !!!

Andy


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