# Does moving forward with the right mindset sometimes mean moving away?



## Ronin74 (Apr 6, 2009)

I just recently completed a phase of counseling and immediately found myself thrown into a "trial by fire" where my emotional and mental states were put to the test. So far I've survived it, and am still moving forward- even in baby steps.

However, I recently went out with a close friend of mine, and a recurring issue keeps coming up: he's always got some sort of pessemistic comment regarding his life, and complains quite a bit about how things aren't fair, and rarely ever holding himself accountable for any part of his situation. To top it all off, he's admitted to being too lazy to do anything about it.

If the solution is "go to school", he thinks he'll get by without it.
If the solution is to clean up his act (mainly his conduct in social networking-type situations), he thinks people need to look past his appearance.
If the solution lies in telling him to "man up", he tries to pass off his misgivings as someone else's fault.
Hopefully you guys are getting the picture.

That all said, is it wrong for me to think it might be best for me to put some distance between us? As one of his best friends, I feel like I owe it to him to be there, but his constant negative talk is starting to feel toxic. I do offer advice and try to encourage him when it sounds like he's on the verge of moving forward, but 4 out of 5 times, he'll drop the ball and go back to whining.

Now we've been friends for close to a decade, and he's been there for me as well, but his unwillingness to hold himself accountable, reluctance to take initiative, and choice to maintain a pessimistic outlook have really begun to wear thin on me. And especially after having learned to really take care of myself, I'm on this fence of whether I need to keep trying to be there for him, or put a little distance between him and myself while I try to get back on track with my life, especially in martial arts.

Any advice?


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## Carol (Apr 6, 2009)

Sure it does.  There is nothing wrong with distancing a friendship because of values.  

There is also nothing wrong with distancing a friendship because the other person isn't being much a friend in return.

He may not like where he is at this point in life, but you can't fix it for him.  You've given him pointers, others may have too.   Its up to him to make something of himself.


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## Ronin74 (Apr 6, 2009)

I guess I just feel a little guilty that he's the one not really moving forward, but that's probably a case of me learning to let go.


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## Carol (Apr 6, 2009)

Ronin74 said:


> I guess I just feel a little guilty that he's the one not really moving forward, but that's probably a case of me learning to let go.



Thats exactly it.   You have been a friend, you've told him what he needs to do.  He chooses to complain about it instead, and he's not really being a friend in return.  

When you distance yourself from a friend, you have a lot of control over how wide you want that distance to be.  If the friendship rekindles, it should be built on mutual respect and shared intrests....not on guilt or worry.


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## Ronin74 (Apr 6, 2009)

Carol Kaur said:


> Thats exactly it. You have been a friend, you've told him what he needs to do. He chooses to complain about it instead, and he's not really being a friend in return.


I've never really thought about that, but it's true. Beyond what I have done, there's nothing else I can do. Yet he still chooses our friendship to be the proverbial toilet where he flushes out all this crap, and as a friend- even after having reminded him I can only take so much- there's a limit to how many times I can go around the same issues with him.

I didn't want to word in this same phrase, but another friend once told me I needed to get away from his "loser talk", and as negative as that may sound, it seems to be the truth.


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## Carol (Apr 6, 2009)

Plus complaining is dangerously deceptive.  It blows off steam and makes one feel better.  Sometimes it even makes a person feel like they have accomplished something...when they haven't actually done so. 

By distancing yourself you may actually be doing something that encourages him to do someting with his life.  No guarantees though.


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## Ronin74 (Apr 6, 2009)

Carol Kaur said:


> Plus complaining is dangerously deceptive. It blows off steam and makes one feel better. Sometimes it even makes a person feel like they have accomplished something...when they haven't actually done so.
> 
> By distancing yourself you may actually be doing something that encourages him to do someting with his life. No guarantees though.


You just made the bigger picture a little clearer. His confidence was always shot when we weren't together a a group, but being there made him as confident as the rest of us. He was jobless and getting by on being "treated" until our own individual lives required attention and he had to get a job.

I feel a little bad saying it, but now I'm feeling a little resentment towards him for it. While I know that feeling will pass though, you're right that perhaps distancing myself (I should mention the others have moved) will be the kick in the pants he needs.


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## Carol (Apr 6, 2009)

Ronin74 said:


> I feel a little bad saying it, but now I'm feeling a little resentment towards him for it. While I know that feeling will pass though, you're right that perhaps distancing myself (I should mention the others have moved) will be the kick in the pants he needs.



Don't feel bad in saying it.  You aren't the one that has done anything wrong...you're just seeing the friendship through a more realistic perspective. :asian:


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## girlbug2 (Apr 7, 2009)

Sounds like he's pulling you down with him into the muck, instead of accepting your help to pull him up out of it. Eventually his negativity will infect you.

Time to move on.


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## Ronin74 (Apr 7, 2009)

girlbug2 said:


> Sounds like he's pulling you down with him into the muck, instead of accepting your help to pull him up out of it. Eventually his negativity will infect you.
> 
> Time to move on.


It definitely feels toxic to how I'm trying to live my life. I think a big part of it is me sometimes feeling that sense of leaving a friend hanging. However, the truth is just like you stated it: I've tried to help him, and after a certain point, it does begin to drag me down, and I can't let that anchor me down from working towards my own goals.

I admit that it's easy to fall into these situations where he complains to me since our other best friends don't live close by anymore, but both you and Carol are right that it's time to move on. It doesn't mean I won't be there in serious times of need, or when we're a little more on the same wavelength, but for now I need to hear a lot less of his negativity.


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## Flea (Apr 9, 2009)

Ditto.

I understand that everyone needs an ear once in a while, but ultimately he's responsible for his life trajectory.  If he wants to wallow in the muck he has every right to do that.  But from the little you've said about your own life, it sounds like you're at a fragile crossroads where you have the potential to really take off ... or sputter out on the launch pad. 

If the relationship _feels_ toxic for you, then it is.  If it were me, I'd back off.  You don't necessarily have to cut him off completely, just to the point where you can handle it without jeopardizing your own path.  This is never an easy place to be, and you have my sympathy and respect.  If it makes it any easier, just remember that you can do it in a spirit of love and compassion.  I wish you well with this.


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## Flying Crane (Apr 9, 2009)

I don't know what kind of counseling you've been getting, nor what kind of personal issues you are trying to work thru, but it sounds like you are trying to improve your life and do a bit of "healing" of a sort.  

Seems to me that when you are in the middle of these kinds of issues, you need to distance yourself from negative influences that might undermine the hard work you are no doubt going thru.  

You owe it to yourself to not allow your friend to destroy what you are accomplishing thru your therapy.  You need to make a separation.

But you could put a positive spin on it to your friend.  Just be honest with him about your own trials, and tell him that you need to focus rebuilding yourself and you need to focus on positive influences, and you need to be away from him during this time.  And maybe you can encourage him to get some similar help if he needs it, and he can rebuild himself as well.

If he resents you for it, then he really is no friend, but he may be angry for a while but then realize that you are right and the friendship can rekindle later.  But for now, don't let a negative friendship destroy what you are trying to fix.  It's time to be a bit selfish about this issue.


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## Ronin74 (Apr 9, 2009)

It looks like the key thing here is making that seperation.

I'm going to use a little subtly first. He can come off emotionally fragile sometimes (we're in our 30's and he'll hold grudges spanning a couple of years), and despite my need for distance, I think he won't think anything different if I'm spending my Saturday nights (the only time we can ever hang out) at the gym. I'm sure he might feel a bit sad, but I think it'll avoid the chance of him taking any words to be abrasive.

You guys are right though, that this is my time, and I need to run with this, rather than risk a "sputter out on the launch pad".



Flying Crane said:


> If he resents you for it, then he really is no friend, but he may be angry for a while but then realize that you are right and the friendship can rekindle later. But for now, don't let a negative friendship destroy what you are trying to fix. It's time to be a bit selfish about this issue.


 
Sadly, there is that potential, and if that's the case, then perhaps he really isn't a friend.


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## Touch Of Death (Apr 10, 2009)

Ronin74 said:


> I just recently completed a phase of counseling and immediately found myself thrown into a "trial by fire" where my emotional and mental states were put to the test. So far I've survived it, and am still moving forward- even in baby steps.
> 
> 
> However, I recently went out with a close friend of mine, and a recurring issue keeps coming up: he's always got some sort of pessemistic comment regarding his life, and complains quite a bit about how things aren't fair, and rarely ever holding himself accountable for any part of his situation. To top it all off, he's admitted to being too lazy to do anything about it.
> ...


Without reading the other responses my first question to you would be, "What are you getting out of this relationship?"
Sean


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## jks9199 (Apr 10, 2009)

Touch Of Death said:


> Without reading the other responses my first question to you would be, "What are you getting out of this relationship?"
> Sean


Y'know... I often get frustrated by your short responses.  But this time -- I think you've nailed it.

Sometimes, as one person in a relationship grows, they have to reassess the relationship, and decide whether it still fits them.


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## Live True (Apr 10, 2009)

I have to agree with the others who have encouraged you to step back, if only for a time.

There is the possibility that he is (unintentionally, hopefully) trying to sabotage your success, because that will force him to have to put up or shut up.  I could have read your posts wrong, but it sounds like you had so much in common and now you are growing and changing, and he is not comfortable with change.

I feel for you Ronin, as it's never fun to realize that time spent is not enough to keep a relationship going, be it friendship or otherwise.  A healthy relationship requires two way communication, support, and interaction.  This requires growth through hobbies, interest, learning, or some similar medium. Many marriages crumble because one or both parties simply start going through the motions and not bringing anything into the relationship.  Your friend sounds like he may be stuck here, and he might need something to nudge him out of his rut.

I hope you continue to make progress toward your goals, and I wish you luck as you tackle this challenge. Let us know how it turns out!


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## Ronin74 (Apr 10, 2009)

Touch Of Death said:


> Without reading the other responses my first question to you would be, "What are you getting out of this relationship?"
> Sean


To be honest, that's kind of a tough one to answer. I've never really thought of friendships with the idea of what I could get out of it, but I guess I might say that as a friend, what I DON'T get from him is a lot of positivity. This wasn't always the case, but now it seems like the only mood he brings whenever we hang out.


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## Ronin74 (Apr 10, 2009)

jks9199 said:


> Sometimes, as one person in a relationship grows, they have to reassess the relationship, and decide whether it still fits them.


 
Sadly, I think I'm realizing this to be the case.



Live True said:


> I have to agree with the others who have encouraged you to step back, if only for a time.
> 
> There is the possibility that he is (unintentionally, hopefully) trying to sabotage your success, because that will force him to have to put up or shut up. I could have read your posts wrong, but it sounds like you had so much in common and now you are growing and changing, and he is not comfortable with change.



He has admitted to me that he can't let go, and uses it like a fail-safe excuse. In some ways, it's aggravating because I definitely wouldn't expect any kind of sabotaging from any of my best friends. I'm sure it may be unintentional, but he's even admitted to being upset (and feeling slightly jealous) over the fact that he wasn't given an invitation to an event that I was invited to- and this is despite the fact that he says he would've turned it down.

As I'm typing this, I'm really starting to see this "friendship" as something that may potentially be an anchor that'll hold me back, and probably cause me to regress into some negative behavior.

Something that had been on my mind before I started the thread was a recent time we went to hang out. I told him that I didn't want to waste gas (for several reasons, he CAN'T drive). So if he wanted to go hang out, he needed to figure out where to go first. His response was "That's why I'm glad I'm not driving." I don't think I've asked him to spot some cash for fuel since we were in college, but his disdain for the fact that I do the driving and he makes no contributions to hanging out (other than bad navigating) seems to mirror how our friendship is these days.

I don't want to sound mean, but looking on this thread, I don't think I'll have trouble turnning down an invite to hang out with him anytime soon. I almost feel like a sucker here.


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## Flea (Apr 11, 2009)

In the unlikely event of a loss of cabin pressure, always put on your own oxygen mask before helping the person next to you.


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## Kacey (Apr 11, 2009)

You cannot properly care for others until you have taken care of your own needs.  From what you have said, both initially and in response to others, this person is getting in the way of you taking care of your own needs, by expecting that his needs will be met first.  As has been said, this relationship sounds toxic to me, and I agree with those who suggest you step back and reevaluate it.  Be prepared - this person will probably not take it well; after all, from what you've said, he thinks all problems stem from others, and taking care of yourself first, rather than him, will likely be presented to you and others in the same social circles as something you are doing *to* him, rather than *for* you.  Do not let this attitude suck you in - it's insidious.  Do what is best for you.  If, at some point, you decide that interacting with him is what is best *for you*, then by all means, go for it.  But otherwise, do what is best for you, and don't feel badly about doing so.

Good luck to you in continuing to work on *you*.


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## Ronin74 (Apr 11, 2009)

Flea said:


> In the unlikely event of a loss of cabin pressure, always put on your own oxygen mask before helping the person next to you.


I suddenly had Fight Club flashing through my mind... lol.


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## Phoenix44 (Apr 11, 2009)

Ya know, you can only do yourself, you can't do your friend.  It sounds like your friend needs some therapy, and he needs to start taking control of his own situation.

Tell him how you feel, give him a copy of Seligman's _Learned Optimism_, and yes, start distancing yourself.


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## mograph (Feb 2, 2010)

Boy, you're hard on yourself, with all this guilt and all. You're growing, he's not, that's it. Are you his therapist? Your relationship has been all about him, him, him. That's not sharing, that's not communal. 

Move on. And if he gets it together without you, so be it. If he doesn't, so be it. Get busy living.


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