# Lai Tong Pai



## Nobody Important (Jun 12, 2016)

This style is supposed to be an older ancestor of Wing Chun.






I don't know much about it other than the history that they tell. Anyone have any useful input into the accuracy of their story?


----------



## KPM (Jun 12, 2016)

Never heard of it.  The video above just looks "too close" to Wing Chun to me.  I would be very cautious of invented "BS" in this case.   Is there a website providing background information?


----------



## Marnetmar (Jun 12, 2016)

KPM said:


> Never heard of it.  The video above just looks "too close" to Wing Chun to me.  I would be very cautious of invented "BS" in this case.   Is there a website providing background information?



It looks like a bunch of random disconnected moves from sloppy Yip Man WC with some random long fist moves thrown in to me.

*Edit:*

Hold on...Bald guy with a red shirt. Is this the same guy that was pretending to do Pan Nam Wing Chun, then started copying Lam Yan's forms and then saying he practiced Weng Chun while stealing Hung Fa Yi's lineage history straight from their website?


----------



## Nobody Important (Jun 12, 2016)

Lai Tung Pai Lineage - Lai Tung Pai Lineage | |... | minthillmartialarts.com | Lineage, Pai, Tung, Lai,  | minthillmartialarts.com

Here is their website. Their listed lineage goes back a few generations. Even if it is a newer creation, say less than 100 years old, it is an interesting look into how martial methods are/we're viewed by village practitioners.


----------



## Marnetmar (Jun 12, 2016)

Let's talk about this long pole form:






I'm calling Bullshido.


----------



## Nobody Important (Jun 12, 2016)

Marnetmar said:


> Let's talk about this long pole form:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Seen that,  I recognize exact patterns of at least 3 well known sets. 5th Brother Pole, 36 Pole & 6 1/2 Point Pole.


----------



## Nobody Important (Jun 12, 2016)

Marnetmar said:


> It looks like a bunch of random disconnected moves from sloppy Yip Man WC with some random long fist moves thrown in to me.
> 
> *Edit:*
> 
> Hold on...Bald guy with a red shirt. Is this the same guy that was pretending to do Pan Nam Wing Chun, then started copying Lam Yan's forms and then saying he practiced Weng Chun while stealing Hung Fa Yi's lineage history straight from their website?


Lol, no not the same fellow. You're thinking of Chris Arnold.


----------



## KPM (Jun 12, 2016)

Nobody Important said:


> Lai Tung Pai Lineage - Lai Tung Pai Lineage | |... | minthillmartialarts.com | Lineage, Pai, Tung, Lai,  | minthillmartialarts.com
> 
> Here is their website. Their listed lineage goes back a few generations. Even if it is a newer creation, say less than 100 years old, it is an interesting look into how martial methods are/we're viewed by village practitioners.



Thanks.  Not much real info there.  I did see this though:

*We teach Lai Tung Pai as well as Wing Chun, Tai Chi Chuan and Hsing Yi. We hope this site provides some insight into the programs we offer*.

Uh..yeah.  I'm still skeptical.


----------



## Phobius (Jun 12, 2016)

One question since chinese history is not my strong suite.

Why would a secretive shaolin style such as Lai Tung Pai have integrated lion dancing? After all it was not taught to anyone outside the temple until around 1950's and even then only to one person and his son. In addition it seems even in its time at the temple it was not taught to many.

So my question then is this, how can it integrate lion dancing as an important part?


----------



## geezer (Jun 12, 2016)

I get a modern, eclectic "kung-fuey" vibe with a lot of WC movements. The recent history really hangs on stories related by one guy named Kong Hoi in Hong Kong. The claims that he learned a secret art at the Hoi Tung Temple (drawn from Hung gar practitioner Lam Tsai Wing's wuxia novels) are a stretch. The earlier history is typical southern Chinese wuxia fiction. And now some American guy claims to be the successor of this style?

It's hard enough to separate fact from fiction when dealing with established lineages. I admit I tend to be _very_ skeptical when I come across stuff like this.


----------



## Nobody Important (Jun 12, 2016)

Phobius said:


> One question since chinese history is not my strong suite.
> 
> Why would a secretive shaolin style such as Lai Tung Pai have integrated lion dancing? After all it was not taught to anyone outside the temple until around 1950's and even then only to one person and his son. In addition it seems even in its time at the temple it was not taught to many.
> 
> So my question then is this, how can it integrate lion dancing as an important part?


Good question.


----------



## Nobody Important (Jun 12, 2016)

geezer said:


> I get a modern, eclectic "kung-fuey" vibe with a lot of WC movements. The recent history really hangs on stories related by one guy named Kong Hoi in Hong Kong. The claims that he learned a secret art at the Hoi Tung Temple (drawn from Hung gar practitioner Lam Tsai Wing's wuxia novels) are a stretch. The earlier history is typical southern Chinese wuxia fiction. And now some American guy claims to be the successor of this style?
> 
> It's hard enough to separate fact from fiction when dealing with established lineages. I admit I tend to be _very_ skeptical when I come across stuff like this.


Yup, not saying it isn't a legitimate system, but it's a mish mash of several arts. Reminds me of the Lau Gar out of England. Unverifiable history, obvious incoherent blending of several styles etc. Though that is a popular thing to do in a lot of villages, too hard to extrapolate what is what.


----------



## LFJ (Jun 13, 2016)

Reserving judgement until Sergio's endorsement... 

...and later retraction.


----------

