# Baby P



## Tez3 (Nov 15, 2008)

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/71213/Baby-P-s-killers-must-expect-long-jail-terms-

To be honest I don't know what to write, this is beyond horror. 

The injuries were shown on the news on a computer mock up, they pulled his fingernails out, his back was broken, his nappies weren't changed and his bottom bled. He was battered. I cried as did many others, now we are angry because it seems the social services did nothing to prevent this, questions are being asked in the House but the baby is still dead.
The mother, boyfriend and the other adult are not named but someone on Facebook ferretted it out and told people, it was also on Bebo and Friends Reunited. It's been taken off because of the court order but it's too late, we know now who they are.
They haven't been sentenced yet, anything less than life imprisonment will be greeted with uproar, quite rightly but even then they could be out in 10 years or so. 
Personally I wouldn't want the death penalty for them, I want, and dear me this is awful, I want them to suffer so much. 

Baby P, RIP


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## Sukerkin (Nov 15, 2008)

Aye, it was indeed horrifying and I don't think that there's much doubt about who the guilty parties are.  

Such extreme violence against a baby beggars belief, especially because his mother was one of those responsible and because the torturers would have had to be deliberate in how much force they used so as not to kill him outright.  

That's the thing that fires me up more than anything else i.e. that this was not someone having a red-out and killing a baby in a violent outburst.

Death is indeed too good for them and we don't even have that final sanction of ultimate gene control to utilise.  So we'll lock them up and then let them out in all too few a number of years.


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## Tez3 (Nov 15, 2008)

Sod it, here's the names. The baby had a name and we should be able to say that name in our prayers for him, and the people responsible should be cursed to hell.

_Tracey Connolly, 25, and Stephen Barker, 31, from north London, are accused of murder and allowing or causing the death of a child under 16. _

_Mr Barker's brother Jason, 35, is charged with allowing or causing the death of a child under 16. _

_They were remanded into custody by Highgate magistrates until a hearing at the Old Bailey on 23 November. _

_The boy, named Peter, was declared dead at North Middlesex Hospital, north London, on 3 August. _

_Detectives were called to the hospital after concerns were raised by staff, a Metropolitan Police spokesman said. _

_Miss Connolly and Steven Barker, who live in Penhurst Road, Tottenham, and Jason Barker, of Wittersham Road, Bromley, south-east London, all appeared in court on Friday_


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## exile (Nov 15, 2008)

I do believe that there should be a special place in hell reserved for people who cause children to suffer the way these monsters did. 

There was an episode of _Star Trek_, I believe, in which the crew encountered a society which had abolished the death penalty after discovering a way to retrieve from the brain of a murdered person the last several minutes of his or her life, and then how to implant those memories into a living person's mind so that at unpredictable intervals they found themselves reliving the dying victim's last moments. There was no way to eliminate the effect once the memories had been transfered&#8212;and that was what convicted murderers underwent as punishment. It was considered to be far more severe than mere execution, yet with not the slightest ethical question about it being possible&#8212;rather than taking the life of someone who had themselves taken life, the punishment immersed the murderer in the _truth_ of what they had actually done, in the most immediate way&#8212;making them relive, repeatedly, the terror and pain that they themselves had imposed on someone else, but this time with the murderer undergoing that terror and pain. If I had my druthers, that's what I would wish on these defectives&#8212;and I'd wish them all long, long lives in which to undergo that experience over and over....


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## Tez3 (Nov 16, 2008)

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article5162476.ece

More and more info is coming out now. The boyfirend is a Neo Nazi with convictions for harming animals and baby Peter has a sister who's also been abused.
There were so many times this baby could have been saved, a doctor didn't even examine him beacuse he said the baby  was 'miserable and cranky', yeah mate so would you be with a broken back, I don't know how you can live with that.
The Minister responsible for children, Ed Balls has ordered an inquiry to be ready in two weeks so I guess we'll know even more then. There will be more cries of 'it won't happen again', and 'communication failures' etc and there will be a 'shakeup' but nothing in reality will change. 
Exile, I so wish that punishment could be made real. I hate that these people make me want to tear them into pieces, all reason out of the window. We cannot call ourselves civilised while things like this are happening.


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## exile (Nov 16, 2008)

Unbearable, that article. I agree: the term 'civilized' can mean nothing as a description of a society which not only allows these things to happen, but which creates institutional forms that in a sense take atrocities like this _for granted_ as inevitable, andas the story seems to documentdo nothing more than create a kind of record-keeping system for the progression of violence against these young children, without the will or means to intervene decisively. People's loathing and disgust at this sort of outcome _must_ be converted into effective social agencies with teeth, and the will to bite with them, that will prevent child abuse from ever reaching the horrific end-point that this case, and the others mentioned in the story, wound up at. 

Do we have to will to do that? Time will tell, I guess, but I have to say that it's staggering to me that this person on the county council would have the bloody brass to defend herself and in effect deny responsibility for what happened. There's plenty of blame to go around here, but it looks to me as if she was the critical point person, and she failed miserably at doing her job.


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## MA-Caver (Nov 16, 2008)

For me this is the biggest outrage. The judge downgrading the trail to less than murder because of a juror's reaction. 


> *THEY SHOULD HAVE BEEN TRIED FOR MURDER, SAYS JUROR*
> 
> 
> A JUROR has criticised the judge in the Baby P case for downgrading the charge of murder against the childs mother and her lodger to one of causing the death of an infant.
> ...


No justice for baby P indeed. Such a beautiful baby boy too. 

What is ironic is that the boy fit perfectly the ideals of the so called superior Aryan race... blonde hair blue-eyed... go figure that he was killed by a Neo-Nazi. Like I said never underestimate these bastards. 

This is from one of the commentaries below the original article... Will a petition actually bring a turn-around and justice, proper justice be metted out? Are petitions really worth anything to whomever they're addressed? Judges and other authoritative figures?  


> THE SUN NEWSPAPER HAS STARTED A PETITION FOR JUSTICE FOR BABY P.                                  15.11.08, 5:33pm
> Listening to Radio 4 I just heard that the Sun has started a petition to oust Shoesmith as an example of the incompetence that led to this beautiful innocent baby's sadistic death. I hope all people who demand JUSTICE for this poor child sign it. At least it's a start.


Another commentary... definitely after my own heart. 


> *ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!!*
> 
> 15.11.08, 5:16pm
> So Baby P's killers should face long jail sentences?....well as a hard working law abiding tax payer i object strongly to my hard earned taxes being used to keep this **** in luxury in prison (dont you do gooders tell me prison hard, i personnaly know the guvenor of my local prison and she would tell you what a cushy place it is,but cannot do anything about it because her hands are tied by the government!).
> ...


                                       I'm glad that there is enough anger and desire for proper justice going on with this... that the names of the perps have been released so that the chance of civilian justice (yes, call it vigilante justice) might be metted out when these gits are released.


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## Tez3 (Nov 16, 2008)

The Sun is a tabloid paper but has had a lot of success in getting public opinion rallied and making the government change it's mind.
there is a huge amount of anger when people talk about this, the media is whipping it up of course but correctly for once. I think the government is going to find it hard to gloss over this one and the Haringey social service will be made an example of, hopefully this will light a fire under other social work departments.

If you ask police officers here what they think of social workers you will get the equivilant of spitting on the ground. There is so much PCness and doctrine going on it's impossible to actually do any caring for the people who need it. Not just children, old people and vulnerable adults too.

I had a friend who has spent 22 years in the army, he had dealt with many welfare problems with his troops, families too, he was mentally strong, compassionate but wouldn't be intimidated by violence, he wanted to be a social worker, he was turned down as not being 'what they were looking for'. No that would be a 20 year old politically indoctrinated invariably female candidate who cared right enough but wouldn't risk upsetting the 'rights' of abusive parents. Naive and social worker come together a lot. They have no idea of the real world, most if not all are university graduates (humanities or arts usually) from naive middle class backgrounds who think 'gangstas' who call them '*****' (and worse) are expressing their ethnicity! Well black men hit their women and father lots of kids by different ones don't they? Excuse me? You call yourself PC and have that view? I've never come across any other group of people that can hold so many stereotypes and yet claim they are respecting diversity and cultures. It's demeaning, dangerous and so wrong.


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## terryl965 (Nov 16, 2008)

These are those time when you wish they would put these people on display and torture them for days before killing them. I believe some people just deserve to be treated in a way that is not civilized. sorry


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## Tez3 (Nov 16, 2008)

terryl965 said:


> These are those time when you wish they would put these people on display and torture them for days before killing them. I believe some people just deserve to be treated in a way that is not civilized. sorry


 
I know what you mean, I truly don't believe in a death penalty not out of pity for the criminal but because I fear what it will do to the rest of us who are having a life taken in our name but things like this bring out the worst in me and I would rip them apart with my bare hands if given the slightest chance. Their acts of barbarity make monsters of us all. It's a dark, dark time.


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## Carol (Nov 16, 2008)

Yes, there are standards for being a licensed social worker, in both the U.S. and the U.K., and the standards generally require a Bachelor's degree in the social sciences.

Not all people of color use coarse language, father children with more than one mother, and hit their partners.

And not all people that use coarse language, father children with more than one mother, and hit their partner are people of color.

While neither behaviour is perhaps polite, at least in the U.S., neither behaviour is justifyable cause for the state to take a child away from their parents.  Having the state take a child away from their parents to become a ward of the state is not a guarantee for a happy ending either.

Its a complicated, and very delicate situation.  My sister (who is white) has been a licensed social worker in a majority-black county in the southern United States for 25 years. Being a social worker does require a bit of independent judgment but it also requires staying within the confines of the law, much like police and constables have to have their actions restricted by the law...even in times where they would like to do more.  

My sister did a lot of volunteering and community outreach early on in college, one of the reasons why she originally chose to be a licensed social worker is because she wanted to spend time with the people that needed help, and not be stuck behind a desk.  She became a social worker and discovered that...she didn't get a chance to spend anywhere near the time she wanted with the people that needed (and wanted) her help.  Why?  She ended up being stuck behind a desk for a large part of the week catching up on paperwork for an ever-increasing caseload.  

I have no doubt that the system needs improvement.  I also have no doubt that there are more than a few incompetent social workers out there, and my sister as well complains about how political correctness goes to the extreme.  I know I'm biased but I tend to think that my sister is one of the better ones, and I know there are some other good ones out there.  When I was going through a rough time in my life with my divorce, I was also fortunate enough to find a good social worker that helped me find ways to cope with the shattering changes in my life, regroup and move forwards.  

The core of many of these problems is relatively simple, at least to identify. There are NO substitutes for good parents and good parenting.  None whatsoever.  

Unfortunately, because there are no substitutes for good parents, that makes finding a solution incredibly difficult.

As far as these parents are concerned...if I were to type my feelings out I'd risk crashing the profanity filter. Therefore I will simply say....may God have mercy on Peter's little soul, and may the paradise he finds in the hereafter somehow compensate for how he has already had to go through hell.


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## Tez3 (Nov 16, 2008)

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/social-workers-on-the-frontline-1020488.html

Here's the views of two social workers. It seems that the good ones are forced to leave, the inept ones are left. I doubt there's anyone who is a social worker that doesn't care, no one is in the job for money or ambition, it's just there is so much misdirection and political correctness going on they can't work properly. Our inner cities especially London with it's boroughs like Haringay, has a high immigrant population with Eastern Europeans, Africans and Asians all having their own customs and ideas. However, there's a very large group of people many in government who believe in, to my mind a very patronising way, that we must go along with all these customs whatever they are. Even when in fact it turns out they aren't customs that the majority of the people follow or believe in. 

The Roma here put their children out into the streets to beg, something that's unacceptable here but I've heard arguments that it's their custom and should be allowed. One look at these pathetic little tots and you know it's wrong. Other problems we have are female circumcison, forced marriages, honour killings and witchcraft. Plus poverty and the general lack of knowledge on how to bring up children to act like a family that seems to be common now. 

This is a good article and explains exactly how social workers here see things.
http://www.independent.co.uk/opinio...the-racism-of-our-adoption-rules-1009592.html


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## MA-Caver (Nov 16, 2008)

Excellent post Carol. 
Really makes me wonder if people are going to have to be psychologically screen prior to getting married and planning children because the atrocities committed are just simply too horrendous to allow them to continue. 
The total idea of PC is to coddle namby pamby folks who grew up being teased or harassed or whatever and it's their way of saying "you MUST be PC with me because I'm not taking it anymore!" 
No, taking a child away from the parent isn't always a happy ending because you can't always guarantee the safety of the child with the foster parents. 
Yet with Baby P one of the articles gave a time line from his birth to death. The (repeated) notations of bruises, marks, infections, and so forth ... all of them should've raised red flags that there is something SERIOUSLY WRONG going on with this child. That, I'm afraid is the mistake of the child welfare/social services. 
Yet again, the number of families needing social services vastly outnumber the social service workers even if divided down to 30 families to 1 case-worker ratio it's still too many. In many cases/cities the ratio is far higher. Overwhelming after awhile and it's easy to ignore/dismiss or rationalize/minimize severe cases. Because those cases can produce tremendous amounts of paper work and red tape. 
People need to get involved more with their communities, if they want these sort of things to stop happening. I don't think society is crumbling as fast as many fear but it is becoming more shallower than before. Minding our own business (until it gets splashed all over the front pages) when hearing someone yell and scream in the house next door on a daily or weekly basis. I've got my own life and family to worry about! 
Our societies are in need of an overhaul... but enough people have to care to make it happen.

And as I believe it (though others may not :asian: ) God has taken little P's soul and given him blissful rest and peace from his torment and filled him with the love that he so desperately needed.


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## Tez3 (Nov 16, 2008)

I believe too this child has gone to a better place.

The charges the mother, boyfriend and his brother face mean they can only be sentenced up to 14 years in prison.
This is not Haringey social services departments first case like this.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2062590.stm

Here is the account of a social worker who became a whistleblower and was persecuted for trying to do the right thing. Added all up it makes horrendous reading.
http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/news/...-whistleblower-feared-shed-lose-daughter.html


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## bluemtn (Nov 16, 2008)

I'm not into karma, but  am a firm believer in "what goes around, comes around".   Breaks your heart to read such horrible things, and like Carol said, if I typed what I had been thinking...


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## BrandonLucas (Nov 17, 2008)

I couldn't read through the whole article.  It's too disturbing for me.

But, from what I read, I personally think that the people who did this should be subjected to the exact same torturous treatment that child was forced to endure.  I know the law wouldn't permit this...but maybe this is a suggestion for someone who would be able to enact justice outside of the law.


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## teekin (Nov 18, 2008)

Tez, with any luck at all the guy will not make it thru the first month in prison. The prisoners will deal with the baby killer in their own special way, his end will not be quick. As sick as this is, the evil in me says "GOOD! I hope the **** him up good and proper" The mother will not have a good time of prison either and no matter where she goes if she makes it out she is an outcast. Once the investigation is over I hope all those who passed the buck or decided that it was too much trouble to take a stand loose their jobs and are exposed for the cowards they are. Once again I say "Silence implies consent".
Thanks for posting this Tez.
Lori


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