# A diffused situation?



## Midnight-shadow (Nov 5, 2016)

I'm curious to know what everyone here thinks about the following video:






On the surface it looks like a very skillful diffusion of the situation, but I feel like there is more to it than that. For example, could the choke hold used in the video be enough to kill someone if used incorrectly? And in a crowded and narrow space such as this would there have been a better way of dealing with the person in question?

What I will say is I really wish people would learn when to keep their mouth's shut, even if you think someone is a bit different to you. It's possible this whole situation could have been avoided if these people actually thought before they spoke. 

Any thoughts?


----------



## oaktree (Nov 5, 2016)

Yes you can kill someone with a choke if applied long enough and hard enough.

Was the guy a threat or was it people egoistically wanting to fight.
Could it have been avoided if people just let the guy walk away. These are the questions.

I have seen it countless times guy says one thing other guy doesn't like it then someone does whatever. That is why I say be polite, avoid instigating, walk away and if you have to as a last resort defend, this was just two people who monkey dance who are more concerned with name calling then paying a mortgage and taking their kids to school you know adult concerns.


----------



## marques (Nov 6, 2016)

Regardless the context, well commented by Oaktree, I think the technique was great, clean and fast. There are few grappling techniques more effective than that (if any), especially when we already have the back easy as that. Furthermore the guy may be on drugs and do not react to pain as expected. Cut the oxygen supply with the RNC would be my first choice, too.
(And it was once, in fact. Just needed to start by pulling the hair to put the guy at my level...)


----------



## JR 137 (Nov 6, 2016)

We don't know what lead up to all of this.  I'd be willing to bet that the shirtless guy was probably walking up and down the aisle insulting anyone and everyone, just looking for a fight.  After a few minutes, people probably got sick of it.  The guy who recorded it probably knew it was just a matter of time until someone (including the shirtless guy) attacked.  Way too many "probablies" in there though.

If that's the way it went down, good on the guy who choked him out.  He kept everyone, including the instigator from getting hurt.  Then he did the right thing by keeping him down with as little force as possible to keep it from continuing.  The only thing hurt in this instance was the shirtless guy's pride.  Hopefully he'll use better judgment in the future.  He got off easy this time IMO, and might not next time.  

It seems like the shirtless guy wouldn't have stopped and would've eventually gotten physical  unless someone stopped him.


----------



## Buka (Nov 7, 2016)

I suppose we could say, technically, anything done incorrectly could cause damage/death. But I don't believe that was the case in this situation. The bearded guy appeared very gentle and controlling in my opinion, former military would be my guess. He seemed in emotional control of himself and well aware of the landscape of the train car. (I liked the way he sat himself down) To me, he was quite gentle with the shirtless problem child. As was how he held him down with very little force.

As for a crowded and narrow space, I think what he did was spot on.

As for the social question of somebody being different than you - we don't know what transpired before the camera started rolling. But having dealt with many people like this, as recently as yesterday afternoon, my guess would be the shirtless guy dictated the circumstances.

I hope he keeps a video record of his train ride, maybe he'll be embarrassed enough not to drink and go out amongst the public - who do not deserve being around guys like this. The problem with being in a moving train when these thing happen is you have no way to remove yourself from the situation. It can be frightening and stressful to the public, and can escalate quickly.


----------



## KangTsai (Nov 8, 2016)

In my judgement it was the perfect method for the situation. The process is efficient and safe for both the victim and surrounding people, the result is immediate and effective.
You need to hold it for about a whole 40 seconds for it to do very serious brain damage.


----------



## KangTsai (Nov 8, 2016)

Buka said:


> I suppose we could say, technically, anything done incorrectly could cause damage/death. But I don't believe that was the case in this situation. The bearded guy appeared very gentle and controlling in my opinion, former military would be my guess. He seemed in emotional control of himself and well aware of the landscape of the train car. (I liked the way he sat himself down) To me, he was quite gentle with the shirtless problem child. As was how he held him down with very little force.
> 
> As for a crowded and narrow space, I think what he did was spot on.
> 
> ...


The guy said in an interview that it was his first time performing it. You can tell because he has a gable grip instead of a triangle grip.


----------



## JowGaWolf (Nov 8, 2016)

The only person who did the right thing was the guy with the bike (provided that he wasn't the one who called the guy a weirdo).  He used his bike to create distance which was the smart thing to do.  It would have been even smarter had he left both wheels on the ground because it creates even more distance.  Everything else was a terrible example of diffusing the situation.  

I always say that our mouths get people in more trouble than the actual situation that they are in.  When someone is walking away don't say anything that will make the person come back to fight.  

The take down was just the quickest and easiest way to take someone down.  He had the advantage because he came from behind unnoticed.   If I were to use this video in a self-defense class, it would be to discuss:
1. How not to diffuse a situation
2. How our mouths get us in trouble
3. How to create distance.  
4. How 3rd parties may interfere with a conflict by sneaking up from behind
5. How to analyze a situation. recognize advantages and opportunities of attacks (example, the guy had really bad balance, use that to an advantage)
6. What happens when a choke hold is successful .


----------



## Midnight-shadow (Nov 8, 2016)

Thanks for all the replies, it's very insightful. The choke hold used is something that I've seen a lot in films but never considered an efficient way of dealing with someone. 



JowGaWolf said:


> The only person who did the right thing was the guy with the bike (provided that he wasn't the one who called the guy a weirdo).  He used his bike to create distance which was the smart thing to do.  It would have been even smarter had he left both wheels on the ground because it creates even more distance.  Everything else was a terrible example of diffusing the situation.
> 
> I always say that our mouths get people in more trouble than the actual situation that they are in.  When someone is walking away don't say anything that will make the person come back to fight.
> 
> ...



I also liked the use of the bike to create distance, especially in a narrow space like a train.


----------



## Buka (Nov 8, 2016)

KangTsai said:


> The guy said in an interview that it was his first time performing it. You can tell because he has a gable grip instead of a triangle grip.



Not really a Gable grip.


----------



## KangTsai (Nov 8, 2016)

Buka said:


> Not really a Gable grip.


Sorry, whatever grip it is where you clamp both hands together.


----------



## drop bear (Nov 8, 2016)

Buka said:


> I suppose we could say, technically, anything done incorrectly could cause damage/death. But I don't believe that was the case in this situation. The bearded guy appeared very gentle and controlling in my opinion, former military would be my guess. He seemed in emotional control of himself and well aware of the landscape of the train car. (I liked the way he sat himself down) To me, he was quite gentle with the shirtless problem child. As was how he held him down with very little force.
> 
> As for a crowded and narrow space, I think what he did was spot on.
> 
> ...



Where did you get former military from?


----------



## Buka (Nov 8, 2016)

drop bear said:


> Where did you get former military from?



Just a guess. Moved like and looks like a lot of folks I know, and the open choke standing as opposed to a classic RNC position.


----------



## Paul_D (Nov 20, 2016)

KangTsai said:


> You need to hold it for about a whole 40 seconds for it to do very serious brain damage.


I am wondering where you are getting 40 seconds from, as according to MMA Junkies "ask the Doc" it takes several minutes:-
_Compression of both (one on either side of the neck) carotid arteries for eight-to-10 seconds is likely to render a person unconscious. It takes several minutes of lack of blood flow to the brain (somewhere in the range of four-to-six minutes) before permanent damage to the brain is likely to occur._


----------



## Bill Mattocks (Nov 20, 2016)

Paul D is correct. That was a blood choke not an air choke. Takes only a few seconds when correctly applied. Extremely dangerous.


----------



## Bill Mattocks (Nov 20, 2016)

FYI I just got a better look at the choke. Classic military police figure 4 choke, he just failed to lock it at the end. Still worked, a carotid artery sleeper. Nicely done.


----------

