# A Celebration of Filipino Culture



## Salagubang (Dec 30, 2007)

Compilation of Clips


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## Rich Parsons (Dec 30, 2007)

Could you name the players in the video?


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## arnisador (Dec 30, 2007)

Thanks for sharing!


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## Dieter (Dec 31, 2007)

Rich Parsons said:


> Could you name the players in the video?



Partner is always PG Abner Anievas.
In the first two clips, the person on the left is SM Bambit Dulay, in the third clip, with the wite stripe on the pant is GM Cristino Vasquez and the grey haired person is GM Rodel Dagooc.

Regards

Dieter


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## Stan (Dec 31, 2007)

Thanks for the clip!  It is very interesting.  The more I see, the more I would say the differenece people talk about isn't between "early" and "late" Modern Arnis, but more between Filipino and North American varieties.  

Specifically, the flow demonstrated in these clips does not indicate Modern Arnis trained as an "add-on" to a non-Filipino system.  There is none of the close range locking and finishing that Professor was so known for in the States and Canada.  But, a discussion I'd like to have, is whether this change represented an evolution by Professor away from the one style and towards the other, or whether in North America he was catering to a clientèle who had no inherent interest in the Filipino martial arts, and were simply looking to supplement their own arts ( often Kempo Karate).  The late-90's Arnis definitely has a lot of Small Circle and Ryukyu Kempo in it.


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## arnisador (Dec 31, 2007)

Stan said:


> Thanks for the clip!  It is very interesting.  The more I see, the more I would say the differenece people talk about isn't between "early" and "late" Modern Arnis, but more between Filipino and North American varieties.
> 
> Specifically, the flow demonstrated in these clips does not indicate Modern Arnis trained as an "add-on" to a non-Filipino system.  There is none of the close range locking and finishing that Professor was so known for in the States and Canada.  But, a discussion I'd like to have, is whether this change represented an evolution by Professor away from the one style and towards the other, or whether in North America he was catering to a clientèle who had no inherent interest in the Filipino martial arts, and were simply looking to supplement their own arts ( often Kempo Karate).  The late-90's Arnis definitely has a lot of Small Circle and Ryukyu Kempo in it.



Lots of wisdom there, though I don't fully agree. There are certainly some evolutionary aspects but I have always thought that geography explained a lot here too.


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## Rich Parsons (Dec 31, 2007)

Stan said:


> Thanks for the clip!  It is very interesting.  The more I see, the more I would say the differenece people talk about isn't between "early" and "late" Modern Arnis, but more between Filipino and North American varieties.
> 
> Specifically, the flow demonstrated in these clips does not indicate Modern Arnis trained as an "add-on" to a non-Filipino system.  There is none of the close range locking and finishing that Professor was so known for in the States and Canada.  But, a discussion I'd like to have, is whether this change represented an evolution by Professor away from the one style and towards the other, or whether in North America he was catering to a clientèle who had no inherent interest in the Filipino martial arts, and were simply looking to supplement their own arts ( often Kempo Karate).  The late-90's Arnis definitely has a lot of Small Circle and Ryukyu Kempo in it.



I started my training in the mid 80's. My local instructors started in the mid/late 70's. There was large circle Judo and even small circle circle applications of joints then. I agree that there was more SCJJ later on though. 

Myself and my in main local instructors when I began had only trained in FMA or Modern Arnis in this case. 

This same knife drill was also used here in the states in the 70's and later in the 90's it was brought back. 

So, while I agree there are differences, it is not easy to say just RP versus NA. I agree that most of those were looking to supplement or add on. The surprise that Judo players get when they see this stick guy can implement joint locks and knows about his center. The Ken/mpo and Karate guys who are surprised that I understand hidden techniques that were not so hidden to me, or that I can strike. I am not claiming to be better than those, just that they always seemed surprised that when the stick or knife is removed from my hands that I still have techniques and applications. 

But a good discourse of what happened in the PI/RP versus NA/EC would be good for a new thread.


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## Dieter (Jan 4, 2008)

Rich Parsons said:


> But a good discourse of what happened in the PI/RP versus NA/EC would be good for a new thread.



OK, good point.

Let me jump in here.
I have trained with lots of the masters including Ernesto and Roberto Presas in the Philippines in the 80s, I had been training with GM Remy since 1994  and later with his American students, mainly Dan Anderson and Bram Frank and a little with Tim Hartman and some others..
Since 2003 I have been training with almost all of the Filipino Modern Arnis Masters in the Philippines and had them over in my house in Germany and teaching seminars, namely Roland Dantes, Bambit Dulay, Cristino Vasquez, Rodel Dagooc, Rene Tongson and Jerry Dela Cruz. 
I had a short training with Vic Sanchez in the Philippines too. I do not want to show of I only want to make clear,that I think I know  what I am talking about.

Things are not very easy to judge.

Clearly said, of course the Modern Arnis of GM Remy mid of the 70s was not as complex and intricate as it was at the end hf his life. Many things changed as he changed.  Some things stayed the same and some became different techniques to the same names. Because he changed and always learned new things, that he incorporated into his Modern Arnis. 
To some people he showed different things than to others. Like Bram was interested in blades, so Remy showed him and Kelly more blade applications where Dan for example was more interested in the stick, at least his first 20 Modern Arnis years .
To my knowledge Rocky Paswick got a very different training from GM Remy in the 70s as for example Jeff Delaney who started MA in 94. (Just a name, put any persons name who started in the mid 90s here. No "Delaney  bashing" intended) GM teaching methods were different and Rocky learned one to one and Jeff more in seminars and camps.

What I mean here is, that already in the US, different persons got different training and different Modern Arnis for different reasons. Be it due to the different time, they were learning, the different situation, that GM Remy was available for them or be it different personal interest.


And then, in the last years another fact was added: GM Remy was not there any more. So from being a Modern Arnis student/practitioner/master under GM Remy while he was still alive, an own identity had/has/will develop, as Dan had recently described it in another thread. 
This is a normal procedure, that when your teacher is not there any more, your focus becomes a different one. Tim oriented himself to Balintawak, Master Buot, Dan refined his MA80, Bram concentrated on his CSSD/SC and knife design and combat application and so on. Some concentrate to  preserve what they have been taught, others move on and create different and new techniques/styles/concepts and drills.
I for example, try to learn from different persons from all phases of the Professor, to have a well rounded overlook over all of his Modern Arnis and not only over a certain period, and I also look for new developments, because Modern for me is not static, but being continuously researching and discovering. 

All is good and ok. 
I only wanted do describe, that 
A: 
during GM Remys active time, there were already people, who got different things than others. So their Modern Arnis was not necessarily the same as the Modern Arnis of others. 
And 
B:
than after his death, the development of people and styles moved into different directions. 

And this is 6 yeas after GM Remys leaving.


Now if you add another 20 years, where will all those people be ans would they still be very similar in their approaches to Modern Arnis?

This is exactly the situation, when you look at Modern Arnis in the Philippines.

People had trained with GM Remy for years and in 1975 he left them. 
Now the same process happened. Some continued to train with themselves (Jerry Dela Cruz and Rodel Dagooc), some trained with other Modern Arnis masters like Cristino Vasquez and GM Rene Tongson who continued to train with Ernesto and Roberto Presas ands some trained with other masters like Vic Sanchez.  All ok, nothing wrong.

And of course, they also went through phases, that things they had learned from GM Remy became their own and that they started to develop their own way of Modern Arnis on the base what they had learned and when they moved on. Like Christino Vasquez founded his Ipit Pilipit, Jerry Dela Cruz his Arnis Cruzada and also Rodel Dagooc it teaching his version of Modern Arnis, even though he did not choose another name for it.

Then GM Remy returned end of the 90s to the Philippines and especially Bambit Dulay trained a lot with him and learned also the "new" Modern Arnis  and Tapi-Tapi directly from GM Remy.


So, to come to an end: Of course, you do not find a lot of the Modern Anris of the 90s Remy Presas style in the Philippines, because there are not many mastery, who can teach that specific version. It is there and being taught, but not as widespread as in the US.
But you find a lot of Modern Arnis, that has older roots and that whose masters made it their own and formed new things out of that, just as GM Remy has done it. And exactly the same will also happen in the US and in Europe, because this is what we like with Modern Arnis: it is modern and  it is flexible. It never stays the same. Only, that now, not only one person is the the center and the "engine" of Modern Arnis, but that this is done by many people. This way, Modern Arnis will never die but also, it will constantly evolve and change over the years.

Regards from Germany


Dieter Knüttel
Datu and Senior Master of Modern Arnis


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