# Tracy's Kenpo Practicioners Slamming Mr. Parker and American Kenpo(older posts)



## superdave (Jan 27, 2002)

I was surfing though the web this evening, looking for information on Kenpo systems(Parker and Tracy)
and came across some really nasty posts made by people who study Tracy's Kenpo. There are people out there who are or had claimed that American Kenpo was a cult, and that Ed Parker was using Kenpo to spread his Mormon religion. There are people who claimed that Ed Parker did not earn his blackbelt from William Chow, and that he had made up most of the material that he was teaching. There are other less that flattering thing that were said also, just too many to list.

I know that some Tracy Kenpoists claim that their system is superior to Parker's system based just on the amount of techniques per belt level. I don't know really anything about Tracy's system so I won't comment on that, but from what I have seen in Parker's system(not really much beyond purple belt)one can tell that it is not a watered down style as some may claim. 

It is really sickening to see the disrespect for the man that made it possible for the Tracy's to learn Kenpo. If this type of stuff is coming from the head of the Tracy system, then that is really sad. If anyone want to read some of the posts that I am refering to please go to GOOGLE  and type in TRACYS KENPO and then click on the GROUPS TAB.

I would bet that if Mr. Parker was still here, this kind of thing would not be said about him.

I am not trying to offend any Tracy students, so don't take it personal.


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## Cthulhu (Jan 27, 2002)

I'd just like to say that the idea of more techniques per belt = superior style is just utter *BS*.  It is not the number of techniques that matter, but the person doing the techniques that makes all the difference.  

Pft.

Cthulhu


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## Sandor (Jan 27, 2002)

Cthulhu is right. Let me just add/share this;

The whole more is better argument is wrong. So is the whole perceptioin that Parker's is 'less' or that the less is incomplete. What good is knowing 10 or 1000 techniques if you are too busy trying to cram them all in to  actually master them(as in your neuromuscular memory knows them)?

Take a look at Bill 'Superfoot' Wallace for a second to see what I mean. Wallace used 3 basics in his arsenal. (Hook, roundhouse and sidethrust kicks, all off of the left leg) I don't remember seeing him ever throw a punch in a match and everyone knew what Superfoot was going to use against them. They would train to try and defeat his simple tactics and yet nobody could. Why? Because he got so good at them that nobody could beat him at his game. 

That kind of perfection in a given set of skills simply cannot be attained across hundreds of techniques. Just keep in mind all of those techniques are physical manifestations of ideas to teach your body through high quantities of quality repetition. Find the best ones that work for you, feel right and you can easily modify to handle a variety of attack scenarios.

Focus on the quality of your Kenpo and don't let the endless bickering drag you down. It aint going away any time soon and as long as they are all arguing they aren't breaking each others windows or legs 


Just my dos pesos 

Sandor


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## Cthulhu (Jan 27, 2002)

I was trying to find a good analogy for this, Sandor, and completely forgot about Bill Wallace.  Good catch!  

Cthulhu


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## Sandor (Jan 27, 2002)

Funny thing (this is a big picture kinda funny) is that as much of a hero/mentor Wallace was when I was a kid (and still is today) I am not a kicker. 


Peace,
Sandor


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## Sanxiawuyi (Jan 27, 2002)

These postings you are referring to on Google are up to five to eight years old. Most have to do with the old Tracy web site, which was not written by the head of the system, Al Tracy.

I was hoping that sleeping dog would lie resting, but every now and then it awakes. Many of us are embarrassed by it, and rather not even speak of it.

I can assure you that most Tracy Kenpo practitioners (like myself) have the highest respect for American Kenpo, Mr. Parker and his incredible contributions to martial arts and his development of American Kenpo.

We also, as Tracy Kenpoist, dont think about numbers, rather we are just concerned with the effectiveness of the system. As I have studied in both systems I can tell you there are many more similarities then differences between us. We just like to hold on to the old traditions and you the new.

Please dont think Tracy Kenpoist as bad or with attitude, as I would never slander all of American Kenpo for what some idiots may have done on their own, and we all know those stories here as well.

Thanks for reading, and maybe check out my site The Kenpo Exchange to see how other Tracy Kenpoist are, or try the Tracy Kenpo Forum hosted by a practitioner from Texas.

Sincerely,
Sanxiawuyi

:asian:


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## GouRonin (Jan 28, 2002)

I know some Tracy guys like Ricardo from Texas who runs the Tracy forum they are good guys. If some Tracy guys in particular want to slander and make up weird sheet about their past because it makes them feel better then let them. Doesn't make a bit of difference to me. With the sex cults and the having to keep up with other weird stuff it's not like they aren't doing themselves favours and not attracting attention to themselves.

The Tracy's were instrumental in pushing Kenpo across North America. So I just say cut them some slack, let them do what they want, and take it with a grain of salt.


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## Sanxiawuyi (Jan 28, 2002)

Thanks from a fellow Canuck and Kenpo brother.

:asian:


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## superdave (Jan 28, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Sanxiawuyi _
> *These postings you are referring to on Google are up to five to eight years old. Most have to do with the old Tracy web site, which was not written by the head of the system, Al Tracy.
> 
> I was hoping that sleeping dog would lie resting, but every now and then it awakes. Many of us are embarrassed by it, and rather not even speak of it.
> ...



Thanks Sanxiawuyi, for your input. I don't group all Tracy's students together with those who posted that garbage on the old site.I understand that there are bad apples in every martial art. It is ashame that there are people like that out there who act so childish never bothering to see that both systems have common roots. I feel that There is alot to learn from ALL OF THE Senior blackbelts, wether they are from the Parker or Tracy system.

Please do not take  offense to my post as I meant no harm. 

On another note,  I have visited the new Tracy's site and was welcomed very warmly. I will check out the Kenpo Exchange also. By the way, do you know of a site that describes any of the Tracy self defense techniques? There are no Tracy schools near my home in Maryland, I am kind of curious to see some of the techniques in your system. That was what I was looking for when I came across those posts. 

Well got to go.

Superdave


:asian: 

mod note: just corrected the 'quote' and 'bold' tags...hope you don't mind, superdave


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## Nate_Hoopes (Jan 30, 2002)

I am a Student of Tracy kenpo, I dont claim it to be any better than parker, Many people give the tracys a hard time, theres many a people dont have half the experience they do and then claim to start there own martial arts. The tracys are well seasoned, as I was told to me the first day i started training, theres only one difference between a white belt and a black belt, and that answer is simply...Time. There isn't many people outthere with as much experience and time in the art that are still alive. The concepts taught in tracy are much the same as taught in parker, even many of the techniques are the same. I feel parker has a more traditional feel and look to it, the tracys try to stay up to date and keep it modern. some people are morons dont let those guys leave a bad taste in your mouth, not all of us feel that way.


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## GouRonin (Jan 30, 2002)

You are stating that the Tracy's are more up to date and modern in their material and that Parker's is more traditional?

I'd have to disagree with that. I'd say more vice versa.


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## Nate_Hoopes (Jan 30, 2002)

Let me rephrase, The way it is taught is more up to date, this is all a matter of opinion, in the earlier belts tracy puts many variations to make more emphasis on all aspects of the move you are doing, I feel it made it easier for me to learn how the mechanics are supposed to work in the move. I'll admit i dont know a great deal about parker kenpo, but i do know that the tracy techniques change from time to time to fit better, the order in which the moves are taught made it very easy to begin building my foundation, and although i know there is still much to learn, I do feel i have a basic understanding of whats going on in almost every technique im taught right now, I feel the way tracy builds up is more modern than parker, but like i said its all a matter of opinion.


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## Blindside (Jan 31, 2002)

Hi Nate,

I'm afraid I have to disagree with you also.

"but i do know that the tracy techniques change from time to time to fit better"

Actually contained within in the official Tracy curriculum are variation that Al Tracy says himself "would not work."  So instead, a B variation is added to give a workable solution.  (One of these that comes to mind is Twisting Staves.)  To me, and I like to consider myself a "modern" instructor, I would simply never teach a technique that I think is a POS.  But the Tracy's have to keep a bad technique in because they have had it in their official curriculum for the past 38(?) years.    

Another way to address the question of what is more "modern" is to see how the system fits within the framework of todays society.  I do not see how learning the katana, spear, chinese broadsword, or even the staff is more modern than the stick and knife.  

There is the whole question of whether kenpo is a technique based or conceptual vehicle for self-defense.  I believe the Tracy's tend toward the "technique" based, due to its endless variations on a technique that simply change one hand weapon.  In a conceptual vehicle these questions are addressed through "web of knowledge" or another similar concept.  In my opinion techique based systems are less "modern" than the conceptual vehicles.  That being said, I've seen AK practitioners who learned the system by rote and didn't have an understanding of the concepts behind the techs.


Just to let you know, my lineage goes through Al Tracy. 

Just my opinion,

Lamont


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## Chiduce (Feb 8, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Blindside _
> *Hi Nate,
> 
> I'm afraid I have to disagree with you also.
> ...


 I think the two previous posts are very informative. The understanding of including a bad technique by the Tracy System is very profound in my case. The Kenpo system which i teach (Dragon Kenpo Karate) was Founded by Master Ed. Hutchison and in his original version, he includes a bad technique or 2 it seems on purpose to enlighten the practitioner on the unlimited number of variations of the systems techniques! This gives the stylist a learning experience of exploring what will actually work in an actual violent street attack situation! This gives the student the understanding to not just take a technique for what it is worth. But to examine it's motion, direction and effectiveness in application for street combat! I think it is a great learning tool for the instructor teaching as well as the student learning! My lineage traces thru both the Tracy and Parker Lineages. Sincerely, In Humility; Chiduce!


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## GouRonin (Feb 8, 2002)

I have been told that there are techniques in the Parker system that are only there for exploration and catagory completion.

I agree with Chiddyduck in that there will be techniques that one might not like but they serve a purpose. Also that each person will find techniques they might not like and they will be different for everyone. 

So while these techniques might seem not to work they have a purpose. Maybe in teaching the ART aspect more than the MARTIAL aspect.


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## Kroy (Apr 7, 2003)

Quality not quantity:asian:


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## RCastillo (Apr 7, 2003)

I was gonna say some things, but everybody else beat me to it, as always!

Hey, but the battle with the Goldendragon rages on!:boxing:


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## Greggers69 (Apr 7, 2003)

Heck who cares what someone else says.  I still ain't gonna change my mind and switch schools or quit mine cause I am not mormon.:asian:


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## Kirk (Apr 7, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Greggers69 _
> *Heck who cares what someone else says.  I still ain't gonna change my mind and switch schools or quit mine cause I am not mormon.:asian: *



Same here.  What I study works for ME.  I think a lot of it stems
from everyone, especially Americans IMO, wanting to be the
best.  I remember the fights as a kids, because others didn't
realize that the Steelers were "the best", the Marines were "the
best", the South was "the best" and so on and so forth.  Now we
all consciously know that that attitude is stupid, but I think 
subconsciously that kid still pokes his head out now and again.
What I study is the best *for me*, and my instructor is the
best *for me* ... and that's all that matters.


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## stacks (Apr 18, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Greggers69 _
> *Heck who cares what someone else says.
> I agree  :cheers:
> do not get caught up in the politics of kenpo both have the best to offer. do not let somebody else sway your opinion. devote yourself to your opted art, do not get drawn into debate
> ...


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## jfarnsworth (Apr 18, 2003)

> _Originally posted by RCastillo _
> *Hey, but the battle with the Goldendragon rages on!:boxing:  *



I guess you're the only one.


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## RCastillo (Apr 18, 2003)

> _Originally posted by jfarnsworth _
> *I guess you're the only one.  *



Even less than that, The Goldendragon doesn't even look my way anymore. Now, I just argue with myself...........


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## jfarnsworth (Apr 18, 2003)

> _Originally posted by RCastillo _
> *Even less than that, The Goldendragon doesn't even look my way anymore. Now, I just argue with myself........... *



There are specialists that can help you with that problem.


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## RCastillo (Apr 18, 2003)

> _Originally posted by jfarnsworth _
> *There are specialists that can help you with that problem. *



Well, I'll just keep moving forward, I guess........


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## jfarnsworth (Apr 19, 2003)

> _Originally posted by RCastillo _
> *Well, I'll just keep moving forward, I guess........ *



Have you turned on your yahoo messenger yet??????


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## Goldendragon7 (Apr 19, 2003)

> _Originally posted by RCastillo _*
> Even less than that, The Goldendragon doesn't even look my way anymore. Now, I just argue with myself...........
> *



Well, if you would stop forgetting Short Form 1 all the time........


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## RCastillo (Apr 19, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Goldendragon7 _
> *Well, if you would stop forgetting Short Form 1 all the time........
> 
> *



LOL!:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: 

I just got through re-reading , "The Journey," your story, and now I'm more determined than ever to "catch " the Goldendragon , The High Kenpo Icon, of the Desert!!


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## Goldendragon7 (Apr 19, 2003)

:asian: = So Hi


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## lonekimono (Apr 19, 2003)

CAN'T WE JUST ALL GET ALONG??




                       yours in kenpo





> she comes in colors everywhere


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## RCastillo (Apr 20, 2003)

> _Originally posted by lonekimono _
> *CAN'T WE JUST ALL GET ALONG??
> 
> 
> ...



I try, but It's like the Alamo all over again. I'm surrounded by superior American Kenpo forces. I have a small chance to get a message out, but the odds are against me.I shall not agree to terms of unconditional surrender! It looks like curtains for me..............


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## Goldendragon7 (Apr 20, 2003)

> _Originally posted by RCastillo _*
> I try, but It's like the Alamo all over again. I'm surrounded by superior American Kenpo forces. I have a small chance to get a message out, but the odds are against me.I shall not agree to terms of unconditional surrender! It looks like curtains for me..............
> *



Not the Alamo...... the Reverse!:bomb: 


This time it's The Mexican:samurai: surrounded by the White guys:apv: ..... hee hee but unlike Santa Anna:2pistols: , we enjoy the engagement!:duel: 

:rofl: 
:asian:


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## lonekimono (Apr 20, 2003)

forget the CURTAINS, pull the SHADES down that way they can't see you. (lol)  



                                 yours in kenpo


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## SPP333 (Apr 22, 2003)

First off I would like to say Hi to everyone on this thread, as I am a new member to MartialTalk.  I am a Tracy's Kenpo student, and I was shocked to hear of these statements by Tracy students.  I GAURENTEE these people do not know the Tracy family, or they would not be spouting off such idiotic statements.  I can assure you SuperDave, that these ideas DO NOT stem from the head of this system.  My instructor is Mark Tracy, Al Tracy's son.  I have had the pleasure of training with and being taught by Al Tracy (head of Tracy's Kenpo.)  Al Tracy has the utmost respect and admiration for Mr. Parker, and was one of his earliest blackbelts.  They remained good friends and in close contact up untill Mr. Parker's unfortunate and untimely death.  When Al and Jim Tracy left the instruction of Mr. Parker, it was because they prefered to stick to the more traditional kenpo taught to Parker by Professor Chow.  There was never any disagreement with American Kenpo, just a matter of "taste" on the part of the Tracy's.  I have seen my instructor go out of his way to help people find good instruction in American Kenpo as taught by Ed Parker, because the prospective student was more interested in this, than in the traditional system.  Tracy's system does indeed have more techniques, but that in itself certainly would not make it better.  All of these techniques were taught to the Tracy's BY PARKER.  These Tracy students bashing Parker make no sense.  If Ed Parker was a fake, then the Tracy's kenpo sytem would be invalid also.  And I wonder if these so-called students with their Mormon conspiracy theories realise that Al Tracy (the head of their system) and many members of his family belong to the Mormon church.  It's not a matter of what the best system is, it's what system is best for you.


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## lonekimono (Apr 22, 2003)

HELLO TO YOU TO, now i have something to say i don't know you and  to use the word FAKE what are you talking about?
i don't know how long you have been playing kenpo? but i will tell you this it don't matter if it's PARKER/TRACY, i know i started in 1965 in TRACY'S kenpo than went over to PARKER kenpo after a while.    think before you say something.


   " just because the stripes show, don't mean you know"

                                                ED PARKER.

                          YOURS IN KENPO

ps love the history lesson :asian:


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## RCastillo (Apr 22, 2003)

> _Originally posted by SPP333 _
> *First off I would like to say Hi to everyone on this thread, as I am a new member to MartialTalk.  I am a Tracy's Kenpo student, and I was shocked to hear of these statements by Tracy students.  I GAURENTEE these people do not know the Tracy family, or they would not be spouting off such idiotic statements.  I can assure you SuperDave, that these ideas DO NOT stem from the head of this system.  My instructor is Mark Tracy, Al Tracy's son.  I have had the pleasure of training with and being taught by Al Tracy (head of Tracy's Kenpo.)  Al Tracy has the utmost respect and admiration for Mr. Parker, and was one of his earliest blackbelts.  They remained good friends and in close contact up untill Mr. Parker's unfortunate and untimely death.  When Al and Jim Tracy left the instruction of Mr. Parker, it was because they prefered to stick to the more traditional kenpo taught to Parker by Professor Chow.  There was never any disagreement with American Kenpo, just a matter of "taste" on the part of the Tracy's.  I have seen my instructor go out of his way to help people find good instruction in American Kenpo as taught by Ed Parker, because the prospective student was more interested in this, than in the traditional system.  Tracy's system does indeed have more techniques, but that in itself certainly would not make it better.  All of these techniques were taught to the Tracy's BY PARKER.  These Tracy students bashing Parker make no sense.  If Ed Parker was a fake, then the Tracy's kenpo sytem would be invalid also.  And I wonder if these so-called students with their Mormon conspiracy theories realise that Al Tracy (the head of their system) and many members of his family belong to the Mormon church.  It's not a matter of what the best system is, it's what system is best for you. *



What statements are those, and by who? Please clarify.


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## Bob Hubbard (Apr 22, 2003)

Both systems have their strenghts and weaknesses.  I believe they both have a lot to offer.

If you dig around in both of our Kenpo forums, we have in the past compared techniques from both systems, often times in great detail.

The old dusty arguments of a few close minded individuals who need to feel 'superior' to me, have nothing to do with the true spirit of a martialartist.  They just distract us from our own path towards enlightenment and mastery of which ever art we study.

:asian:


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## SPP333 (Apr 22, 2003)

LONEKIMONO,

I just read your response to my post and I'm a little confused.  I was responding to the first post in this thread, did you even read it?  I don't know how, but you obviously didn't comprehend a thing my post was about.  I wasn't saying Parker or Tracy Kenpo were fakes, I was saying the opposite and responding to some so-called Tracy students bashing Ed Parker.  I KNOW Al Tracy and his family.  I'm a Tracy student, and I was making the point that there is no "better" between the 2 systems.  One is traditional, the other has been modified by the genius insights of Ed Parker.

I DIDNT USE THE WORD FAKE, SOMEONE ELSE DID.

I think it's funny that you told me to think before I say something, you obviously didn't think, nor did you probably read my complete post or this entire thread.  If you had, you would have known that I was not calling anything fake.  I don't know you either, and I find it odd that my post was meant to show that there should be no nonesense and argument between styles of Kenpo, and all I got from you was mis-understanding and a condescending remark about how long I've been "playing" Kenpo.  I respect the fact that you've studied Kenpo since the 1960's.  I've only studied for 6 years, but I do KNOW the TRACY family and have done extensive research into the history of Kenpo.  That makes me more than enough qualified to say that Al Tracy is not promoting the idea that Ed Parker is a cult leader and a fake.  Al Tracy has the utmost respect for Parker, and so do I.  I was speaking to defend BOTH Parker and Tracy.


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## SPP333 (Apr 22, 2003)

RCASTILLO

You asked me to clarify "what statements."  I was referring to the FIRST post in this thread.  This thread IS titled "Tracy's Kenpo practitioners slamming Ed Parker and American Kenpo," ISNT IT?  LOL I've already apparently made one poster mad because he seemed to think I meant the opposite of what I was trying to say LOL.  Maybe I jumped into this thread a little late or something, no one else seems to remember the topic.LOL  Anyway, my response was really aimed at SuperDave, because I wanted to assure him that the remarks by Tracy students HE referred to were NOT comming from the head of the Tracy system.  I know Al Tracy.  That's all I was trying to say, and somehow LoneKimono seems to think I'M calling someone or something "fake."

I'm sorry about any mis-understanding, I hope I cleared things up, I'm new here so MY APOLOGIES.  I'm not here to argue or upset anyone, I was just defending Tracy's and Parkers Kenpo from some ignorant statements that apparently were made.


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## SPP333 (Apr 22, 2003)

SuperDave,

You posted a question as to where you could check out some Tracy's techniques since there isn't a school near you.  If you check the REAL Tracy's website, you can order complete manuals and videotapes.  Not sure where you might find some FREE info though.  There really is a lot of similarities between the 2 types.  Anyway, hope this helps you out.


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## lonekimono (Apr 23, 2003)

OK SPP333 this is what i keep reading from you"I KNOW AL TRACY"
  i think that there are alot of people who do( me to) 
but YOU DID  say "THAT IF PARKER WAS A FAKE SO IS THE TRACY 'S" what are you talking about?? and oh yes  i NEVER get upset over bullsh#@, and look I DID READ ALL OF WHAT YOU SAID
understand that please. you know someone told me  that don't let what some of the people say get you mad  .
but i will say this again WHY WORRY ABOUT THIS CRAP ?
if you have only been training for 6 years GERAT keep going.
and one more thing no need to tell people on the board that you got me mad, they can read.





> know what you know,know why it's so.  ED PARKER


 :asian: :asian: 

                           yours in kenpo


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## Blindside (Apr 23, 2003)

> I am a Tracy's Kenpo student, and I was shocked to hear of these statements by Tracy students. I GAURENTEE these people do not know the Tracy family, or they would not be spouting off such idiotic statements. I



Hi SP333,

You may not know this, but much of the statements that SuperDave complained about were from the Tracy homepage (yes, the same official Tracy site that is up now).  I'm guessing about 6 years ago now.  I have the page printed off and in my files if you really want me to dig it up.  (Which I don't, I'd much rather bury this subject.)  Some peope have attributed this to "crazy Will Tracy" but regardless it made it onto the website and was there for a long time.  

Ask someone (Mark or Al, they have to remember it) about the webpage, and email me if you want a copy of the crap that was printed.  (I'll be out of town for a couple of days, but I will get back to you.) 

Lamont


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## Seig (Apr 23, 2003)

> _Originally posted by lonekimono _
> *OK SPP333 this is what i keep reading from you"I KNOW AL TRACY"
> i think that there are alot of people who do( me to)
> but YOU DID  say "THAT IF PARKER WAS A FAKE SO IS THE TRACY 'S" what are you talking about?? and oh yes  i NEVER get upset over bullsh#@, and look I DID READ ALL OF WHAT YOU SAID
> ...


Mr. Elmer,
I do not know you, but we have a mutual friend.  I think, sir, you misunderstood the remark.  I believe that the new guy was stating that if the Tracy's try to invalidate Mr. Parker, they invalidate themselves.  At least that's how I understood it.:asian:


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## SPP333 (Apr 23, 2003)

Kimono,

I don't understand your attitude at all.  I stand by my statement, if Parker was a fake, then Tracy's Kenpo system isn't valid at all because they learned it from Parker.  I'll say this one more time in the hopes that you can understand this.  I DID NOT SAY ANYONE WAS A FAKE.  I was pointing out how absurd it would be for a Tracy's kenpo practitioner to try to dis-credit Ed Parker.  Apparently some Tracy's students said some crazy remarks.  I'm referring to a post by SuperDave, go back and read the post.  I'm sorry your so angry, but it seems to me that you're only angry because you're having some trouble understanding a simple statement in context.  If you also know Al Tracy, then you should know what I said was true, Al Tracy doesn't have a bad thing to say about Ed Parker.  The only "crap" that I'm worried about is the fact that SuperDave expressed concern about wether some statements were made by the heads of Tracy's kenpo, since I know Al Tracy, I told them that they were not.  Don't know why this angers you, and I'm not sure why you're getting so upset about it that you're swearing and all, but I hope you get over it and calm down there a bit buddy.   I'm not trying to be argumentative with you, sorry if I gave that impression.  If you feel like I don't know what I'm talking about, perhaps you should re-read this thread and "THINK" before you get so angry.  I'm sure this is just a simple mis-understanding.

PEACE, Kimono, PEACE


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## SPP333 (Apr 23, 2003)

You're correct Seig, that IS ALL I was saying.
Thanks for the info, blindside, I don't know who posted these things about Mr. Parker, all's I know is that Mark and Al always speak of him in high regard. (AND  RIGHTFULLY SO)


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## lonekimono (Apr 23, 2003)

I'm not mad, but look at this, you know it's alot better to say thing's in person than write them down in here i give you my phone # to my home ( i don't care who calls me) 856-401-9380
and i'm NOT MAD!! ok? please i'm not.  but it does not matter if PARKER /TRACY was a FAKE when it came to kenpo? 
how do you know??? because i know both system's  and i make them work. please call me ? thank you 



ps oh by the way my students or there friends ever call me buddy
i think that only happens on  CB RADIO lol


                                 yours in kenpo





> call me anything you want,just don't call me late for dinner


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## SPP333 (Apr 23, 2003)

Hi  again Kimono,
I'd be happy to call you if you'd give me a good time to do so.  Sorry about referring to you as "buddy." LOL No dis-respect meant.  I'm not sure I understand what you mean when you say it doesn't matter if Parker or Tracy were fakes, it would matter to me as I'm interested in the traditional-aspect of kenpo as much as it's realistic applications.  I feel I have enough experience in several other "defense" based arts to defend myself, and I started studying kenpo about 6 years ago because of my friendship with Mark Tracy and an interest in traditional kenpo as an art-form.  I don't believe we disagree on anything, just mis-understood each other a bit.  It happens.  (It happens on the internet alot ! }


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## lonekimono (Apr 23, 2003)

you can call me at anytime it's about 10 am now in New Jersey
i will explain what i meant when you call  about the word fake.






                         yours in kenpo





> if you look at the sun,then you will be forever in darkness


 :asian: :asian:


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## RCastillo (Apr 23, 2003)

> _Originally posted by SPP333 _
> *RCASTILLO
> 
> You asked me to clarify "what statements."  I was referring to the FIRST post in this thread.  This thread IS titled "Tracy's Kenpo practitioners slamming Ed Parker and American Kenpo," ISNT IT?  LOL I've already apparently made one poster mad because he seemed to think I meant the opposite of what I was trying to say LOL.  Maybe I jumped into this thread a little late or something, no one else seems to remember the topic.LOL  Anyway, my response was really aimed at SuperDave, because I wanted to assure him that the remarks by Tracy students HE referred to were NOT comming from the head of the Tracy system.  I know Al Tracy.  That's all I was trying to say, and somehow LoneKimono seems to think I'M calling someone or something "fake."
> ...



No, it's ok. I 'm not offended, as I do not wish to offend anyone else either. I don't bash anyone, and I respect all here. I just like to act as a cut up. I'm a strong Tracy supporter, but want to make sure I don't say the wrong thing either.:asian:


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## lonekimono (Apr 23, 2003)

Hello Mr Castillo and all the ships at sea( i heard that somewhere)
it's a raining in Jersey right now, and my head hurts, i can't sit down without that hurting i can't use the bathroom without that hurting, and i have an uncle who just got locked up and we can't get him out on bail, the tax man keeps calling me the phone people keeps calling me, but you know me ? I CAN'T COMPLAIN :rofl: :rofl: 


 PS just being funny

                       yours in kenpo


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