# Belt as a Weapon



## Glycerine0160 (Feb 23, 2009)

By no means do I think this is a new concept. But I was playing around with my kali sticks and then I just picked up my belt to feel the difference in weight (which would cause me to strike faster)

So I took my belt and folded it into two. I don't know but I became severely impressed. I started playing around with ideas in my head. (I'm still very new to martial arts though)

I actually decided I think I would rather have a belt as a weapon than a knife unless the attacker had a gun. The belt feels as if it can strike just as fast as a knife (if not faster w/o using the belt buckle side), yet has a lot more range. It feels really nice too. Not to mention, you have two sides to choose from. When you fold it in two, you can choose the belt buckle side, which is slightly slower cause it doesn't whip as fast but it will be a lot more powerful. Then you can use the other side, which is two of the leather flaps which have insane speed. 

Pros:
Fast
Choice between moderate to almost lethal (2 sides)
Comfortable, like a kali stick
Inconspicuous,  no one can interrogate you about why you carry it   ( to elucidate this further, I love how unmenacing it seems. you could very quickly end a fight w/o causing permanent damage other than whip marks on your opponent. perfect for ANY situation w/o worrying about the law against you.)


Cons:
May whip you back (but even when it hit me, the concept of zero pressure when it hits me makes it a very weak recoil)
Not easy to pull out (however, I considered this. I may just carry one in my pocket as well, fold it up, and even if I want, organize it in my pocket so i can have it already held in two with either of the two ends in easy reach)


Is there something I am overlooking? It's almost like a portable kali stick. And hell, I'd take a kali stick over almost any other weapon. Not to mention, I have a madjaphit silat video I'm awaiting to start which has the sarong weapon featured in it

A belt could easily act as a sarong. It seems like it could tie the opponent up very well. 


Any thoughts or experience on this?


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## MA-Caver (Feb 23, 2009)

A folded belt was how my dad kept my young *** in line most of the time ... or at least the threat of it. 

Belts are good makeshift weapons if used properly. Yes you COULD tie someone up but not for long... leather belts aren't always that supple to tie in a tight knot, a canvas belt could... if long enough. 

Now if you got a hefty buckle on to the end of that belt ... that'll work as a nice weapon... til the snaps holding the buckle pop open.


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## jarrod (Feb 23, 2009)

don't forget the possibilities for chokes.

jf


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## kaizasosei (Feb 23, 2009)

Plus you have a decent surface to block with if you stretch the right length of the belt holding with both hands.  
I used to practice lots of beltfighting.  I'm into flexible weapons because i think they offer the greatest challenges for training.
I would put up a target usually higher than myself and hit it over and over again-with and without the buckle.  some belts have reinforced metal tips too on top of a buckle on the buckle side.  Always must take great care not to get hit oneself on the rebound-A buckle at full speed can break or fracture a small bone.



j


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## Bill Mattocks (Feb 23, 2009)

My dad was a Marine back in the olden days, he used to say that they were taught the use of their belts as a weapon, but they used the belt by wrapping the non-buckle end around their hand a few times, then they swung the belt in a looping figure 8 motion, almost like nunchaku, and struck with the buckle end.  I played around with the idea, but never put it into use or tried to develop the concept as a weapon.  If I take my belt off, my pants fall down.


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## kaizasosei (Feb 23, 2009)

Yeah, just recently i started tying up my trousers with a long string folded in two.  So if i need string i can simply pull it out and if i need the belt it can come off without the pants falling.  (just can't get both at once...)
  I have this cool billabong belt that i'm still all protective of so i don't think i'll like to use it in anything other than an emergency.  
Some belts are made of tougher leather than others, some are really supple or made of synthetics....i gather if one feels some kind of threat, an extra belt in a pocket is a very inconspicuous yet potentially vicious weapon.
Same goes for chains though it be a little more obvious that they can be used as a weapon.

checkout the belt restraining technique at 1:00
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rl8K4GmsmgM&feature=PlayList&p=A1908CE3ED9462D4&playnext=1&index=6


j


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## Bill Mattocks (Feb 23, 2009)

kaizasosei said:


> Yeah, just recently i started tying up my trousers with a long string folded in two.  So if i need string i can simply pull it out and if i need the belt it can come off without the pants falling.  (just can't get both at once...)
> I have this cool billabong belt that i'm still all protective of so i don't think i'll like to use it in anything other than an emergency.
> Some belts are made of tougher leather than others, some are really supple or made of synthetics....i gather if one feels some kind of threat, an extra belt in a pocket is a very inconspicuous yet potentially vicious weapon.
> Same goes for chains though it be a little more obvious that they can be used as a weapon.
> ...



I think a belt could be a fine expedient weapon, one which would be worth practicing with, but I frankly don't see myself carrying a coiled-up second belt with me. I carry a legal pocketknife, and if I felt the need for more than that, I'd carry a firearm.


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## arnisador (Feb 23, 2009)

There are Filipino arts that teach the belt/rope. Doesn't A. Marinas have a book out on it? Ah, here we go:
http://www.amazon.com/Pananandata-rope-fighting-Filipino-techniques/dp/0873644948/


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## Guro Harold (Feb 23, 2009)

Please also consider that some Sarong/Marong techniques could apply as well.


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## Glycerine0160 (Feb 23, 2009)

Today I did carry around a coiled up belt. The most attractive part is the ability to not have to worry about metal detectors when you go places. One time I brought my knife to a club, (it was a very small one, maybe 4 inches in total) and I had to hide it in my shoe cause the bouncer was frisking people. At least with a belt I can make up an excuse like, "this one keeps coming undone and i dont' want to be the idiot who can't keep his pants up all night so i brought a second"

plus sometimes my karambit sticks out of my pocket, and one time my friend asked what it was. Sure i could lie and maybe convince them the ring is a key chain or something, but the belt is still so untroublesome.


Like I said, I naturally prefer not using the buckle side when it it wrapped up in to. It is slower and the recoil is more of a caution. However, I think if I was up against a knife or a gun, the buckle would be dire. It depends on the intensity of the situation.


I definitely want to learn sarong techniques (I don't know any, like I said, this madjaphit introduction video contains some that I just got)


The one thing I noticed is, it is almost a great weapon for beginners. It is only reinforcing that my empty hand is always against my chest (like it should be) to hinder any recoils that might near my face. haha

and I'm not sure if it makes a difference, but I have the loopless belts that are just like strands of leather knots going all around so that you can have a loop anywhere without their actually being little holes. I have a feeling these are more flexible, thus why I like it so much.


edit:

hey guys, i started thinking possible gun disarm strategies is a gun is pointed straight at you. How about this....
trap the hand with your empty hand and aim for the face (preferablly eyes) I can't imagine it being to easy to block a flexible weapon like this unless you have a long blunt object which he doesn't, he has a gun.   anyway, after that, I know nothing of the sarong but I sware I've seen this in a movie before.  You then hold the belt with two hands, and wrap it tightly around the gun and pull.  I'm not sure if that could create enough force to disarm him. But, you also could use kicks to assist in this disarm. Plus, if he did decide to punch you with his empty hand, you have leverage and unless he lets go of the gun, you have a fulcrum to lean some weight onto (which you could slip the punch)   if he lets go of the gun (which would cause you to fall) hell, you now have the gun or at the least, he no longer has a  gun, you fell on the ground, but you still have your weapon. I'd say that's a plus.   

Regardless, the question goes back to square one,  can wrapping the gun with the belt (with two hands) be a viable disarm strategy?


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## JadeDragon3 (Feb 23, 2009)

I've always said that belts are good weapons if confronted with someone that had a knife.  There are lots of options a person could do......You can strike thier hand or face causing them to hopfully drop the knife or you could pop em' in the thigh or groin like a whip.  Lots of options to choose from.


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## kaizasosei (Feb 23, 2009)

If someone has a gun, you either comply or if you do grab the gun, you do it in a way that the chances for success are really high, and if you do grab the gun, i would rather hold it both hands for starters because-taking punches is nothing compared to getting shot-if the threat is serious.  Hitting the guy, belt and other little weapons may even distract you yourself.  The first challenge is grabbing the weapon if possible without the attacker pulling away.  then you have to maintain control-that is the most important.  If it means wrestling for the gun for 2 minutes and taking multiple punches whatever as long as you're not in the path of a speeding bullet. 

Chances are, unless you are quite certain your life is in danger, it's probably better complying.

j


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## Glycerine0160 (Feb 23, 2009)

kaizasosei said:


> If someone has a gun, you either comply or if you do grab the gun, you do it in a way that the chances for success are really high, and if you do grab the gun, i would rather hold it both hands for starters because-taking punches is nothing compared to getting shot-if the threat is serious.  Hitting the guy, belt and other little weapons may even distract you yourself.  The first challenge is grabbing the weapon if possible without the attacker pulling away.  then you have to maintain control-that is the most important.  If it means wrestling for the gun for 2 minutes and taking multiple punches whatever as long as you're not in the path of a speeding bullet.
> 
> Chances are, unless you are quite certain your life is in danger, it's probably better complying.
> 
> j




Point well taken.


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## JadeDragon3 (Feb 24, 2009)

kaizasosei said:


> The first challenge is grabbing the weapon if possible without the attacker pulling away. then you have to maintain control-that is the most important. If it means wrestling for the gun for 2 minutes and taking multiple punches whatever as long as you're not in the path of a speeding bullet.
> 
> Chances are, unless you are quite certain your life is in danger, it's probably better complying.
> j


 
I hope your not talking about a knife.  I would NEVER suggest that someone grab the knife (weapon).  I might would suggest grabbing the knife welders wrist but not the knife as you suggest. As you stated all they have to do is pull the knife and your cut.  Especially if its a double edged knife.  Grabbing a gun, yes.  Grabbing a knife, no.  Just my humble opinion.


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## Thems Fighting Words (Mar 12, 2009)

Always good to practice with makeshift weapons. Especially ones that are readily available. 



Glycerine0160 said:


> Pros:
> Fast
> Choice between moderate to almost lethal (2 sides)
> Comfortable, like a kali stick
> Inconspicuous,  no one can interrogate you about why you carry it   ( to elucidate this further, I love how unmenacing it seems. you could very quickly end a fight w/o causing permanent damage other than whip marks on your opponent. perfect for ANY situation w/o worrying about the law against you.)



Depending on the knife used, they too can be used in a non-lethal manner. The balisong has a number of techniques specifically geared towards using it in its folded state. Then of course there's the handle butt.
One of the big pros though of a belt is that they're not illegal. 



Glycerine0160 said:


> Cons:
> May whip you back (but even when it hit me, the concept of zero pressure when it hits me makes it a very weak recoil)
> Not easy to pull out (however, I considered this. I may just carry one in my pocket as well, fold it up, and even if I want, organize it in my pocket so i can have it already held in two with either of the two ends in easy reach)


I guess if I took my belt off my pants might fall down.
Another problem is striking surface. If you hit someone with a heavy enough buckle, then alls well. But the cord itself can be intercepted by an opponent without much harm.



Glycerine0160 said:


> Is there something I am overlooking? It's almost like a portable kali stick. And hell, I'd take a kali stick over almost any other weapon. Not to mention, I have a madjaphit silat video I'm awaiting to start which has the sarong weapon featured in it
> A belt could easily act as a sarong. It seems like it could tie the opponent up very well.
> Any thoughts or experience on this?


Just remember that soft weapons tend to be harder to control (especially at early levels) than hard weapons. Also if you're interested in make shift weapons, have an ask around with any Moo Gi Gong guys on the forum (a sub-branch of HKD). Other than that, I wish you well in your endeavors.


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## marlon (Mar 13, 2009)

Glycerine0160 said:


> By no means do I think this is a new concept. But I was playing around with my kali sticks and then I just picked up my belt to feel the difference in weight (which would cause me to strike faster)
> 
> So I took my belt and folded it into two. I don't know but I became severely impressed. I started playing around with ideas in my head. (I'm still very new to martial arts though)
> 
> ...


 
i had this demonstrated to me at the end of a kali seminar and it was amazing.  the movements were the same as a stick with the checks placed wwith attention paid to the belt.  it was beautiful and an eye opener!!!

marlon


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## Nomad (Mar 13, 2009)

Came across this the other day...
http://www.beltswords.com/

For a minute, I thought this thread was going there...


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