# When someone says, "Combat JKD"...



## Jonathan (May 13, 2010)

... what does that mean to you?

I mean, I know JKD is not a style so much as a concept.  The website of a school I'm considering suggests that it's basically teaching 'fighting tactics'

http://completefitnessconcepts.com/

The upside is the inclusion of escrima/kali and CSW in the mix, for a less expensive monthly class than the local krav maga school.  My only 'hang up' is that I know krav maga has an established curriculum... I don't to just be learning what someone things will work by mashing them together.

Haven't taken a demo class yet, but just curious how this pings on others' radars.


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## punisher73 (May 13, 2010)

One word, "marketing".  Why would you call JKD "Combat JKD"?  That's straight from the Redundancy Department of Redundancy.  

I would find out what the instructors actual rank and training is with the people he has listed. For example, he lists Paul Vunak's PFS Matrix mixed with kickboxing. Did he take a weekend class with Vunak and is now an instructor (Vunak offers that), or did he learn the whole Vunak methodology from him or one of his long time instructors?

Did he rank with Erik Paulson in his submission wrestling or did he take a seminar and blends it with what he already knew?


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## Harald (May 19, 2010)

Yup. Punisher hit the nail on the head. The one word to best describe it really is "marketing." Nothing more than that.

And lol @ "straight from the Redundancy Department of Redundancy." Spot on.


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## ratman (Jun 16, 2010)

Jonathan said:


> ... what does that mean to you?
> 
> I mean, I know JKD is not a style so much as a concept.  The website of a school I'm considering suggests that it's basically teaching 'fighting tactics'
> 
> ...



I believe the question is if this system is effective for you. I agree that "Combat JKD" is a marketing term but it essentially gives the "seeker" an idea of what the school is about. Really nothing more and nothing less. You will not be learning Jun Fan Jeet Kune Do but Jeet Kune Do Concepts in this school.  It will be a bit of this and a bit of that with the concept of JKD as the core. As we all know, there is great division in the JKD world over which system is better. I personally study Jun Fan JKD but also study military combatives. The key is to be a sponge and soak it all in then disregard what doesn't work well for you and combine principles that are effective for you. A building must have a strong foundation. Make sure your foundation is strong and build on that. I believe this is the essence of the legacy that Bruce Lee wanted to leave.


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## ap Oweyn (Jun 16, 2010)

Yeah, it's marketing.  But I agree with Ratman that it also tells you something about the school and those who teach there.  And dismissing it merely as redundant is probably counterproductive.  Marketing is a calculated presentation of something.  And if they're opting to present themselves as "combat something," it tells you who they're trying to appeal to and (by implication) how you'd fit in with other people there.  

Obviously, you're going to want to check it out first hand.  But being marketing and being meaningless are two distinct things.


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## punisher73 (Jun 17, 2010)

ap Oweyn said:


> Yeah, it's marketing. But I agree with Ratman that it also tells you something about the school and those who teach there. And dismissing it merely as redundant is probably counterproductive. Marketing is a calculated presentation of something. And if they're opting to present themselves as "combat something," it tells you who they're trying to appeal to and (by implication) how you'd fit in with other people there.
> 
> Obviously, you're going to want to check it out first hand. But being marketing and being meaningless are two distinct things.


 
Calling martial arts "combat something" is akin to what I see in law enforcement where everything is call "tactical".  I even recieved a flier one time for a seminar on "tactical pull-ups".  I just see it overused so much that it has no meaning to me.  Just one of my pet peeves.

Never said it was meaningless, but when you see labels like that it usually says to me that further investigation is required.


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## ap Oweyn (Jun 17, 2010)

punisher73 said:


> Calling martial arts "combat something" is akin to what I see in law enforcement where everything is call "tactical". I even recieved a flier one time for a seminar on "tactical pull-ups". I just see it overused so much that it has no meaning to me. Just one of my pet peeves.


 
Well pet peeves are fine. But, realistically, as more of these teachers come onto the scene, they're going to need to differentiate themselves from one another. Or, at the very least, catch people's attention. "Combat" and "tactical" tend to appeal to the sorts of people likely to sign up for classes.

I'm not saying I _like_ the name. But we have to acknowledge that market realities exist, whether we like them or not. It's not like marketing language is some new concept. We're bathed in this stuff 24/7. Take it for what it is and don't sweat it.



> Never said it was meaningless, but when you see labels like that it usually says to me that further investigation is required.


 
Never said you did say that. If I thought you'd said that, I'd have quoted you for clarity's sake.

And further investigation is almost _always_ required.  I'm not suggesting that "Combat JKD" sounds good.  But it does, to me at least, reflect some effort to differentiate themselves from (perhaps) some of the teachers they may have encountered who spend more time waxing philosophical, or fixating on drills, or whatever it is they've observed and said "don't wanna be that."


Stuart


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## geezer (Jun 18, 2010)

punisher73 said:


> Calling martial arts "combat something" is akin to what I see in law enforcement where everything is call "tactical".  I even recieved a flier one time for a seminar on "tactical pull-ups".  I just see it overused so much that it has no meaning to me.  Just one of my pet peeves...



I feel the same way about trendy, overused terms, whether in MA, business, education (my field), or wherever. But the term "combat" has a nice ring to it and conjures up an image of no-nonsense applied MA. Back in the 80's I studied a system called "Combat Escrima". The founder used that name simply to let you know that we weren't there to twirl sticks and look good. This stuff was supposed to work. Later, as everybody and his brother started using the term "combat", he expanded his approach re-named his system "Escrima Concepts" emphasizing core ideas that would translate effectively to other systems as well. Nowadays, "concepts" has become another overused buzz-word, so I hear the guy just uses his last name since he's pretty well known in FMA circles. Hard to argue with that.

As for myself, we named our group PCE, or "Phoenix Combat Escrima." But we're not all that hard-core. Not exactly Dog Brothers or anything. And if "Combat" is really that overused, maybe we should change our name. Still, in spite of what you say, I really like the name _"Combat Something"._ Would you mind if we used it. Hey, I got it. We've got a Mexican member.... so that makes us Combat Something International or _CSI!_  LOL.


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## sgtmac_46 (Jun 28, 2010)

Some names are cheesy, redundant and cliched, but I try not to judge curriculum entirely on names alone, as some very good folks have an annoying fondness for cheesy redundant cliches.........but what are you gonna do?


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## Tez3 (Jun 28, 2010)

punisher73 said:


> Calling martial arts "combat something" is akin to what I see in law enforcement where everything is call "tactical". I even recieved a flier one time for a seminar on "tactical pull-ups". I just see it overused so much that it has no meaning to me. Just one of my pet peeves.
> 
> Never said it was meaningless, but when you see labels like that it usually says to me that further investigation is required.


 

Are you sure it was 'tactical pull ups' and not 'tactical pulling', our squaddies do the latter all the time, no female is immune from having a squaddie trying to pull her


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## Daniel Sullivan (Jul 2, 2010)

Jonathan said:


> ... what does that mean to you?
> 
> I mean, I know JKD is not a style so much as a concept.  The website of a school I'm considering suggests that it's basically teaching 'fighting tactics'
> 
> ...


It pings marketing, as others have said.  Huge arguments have been had over "combat" hapkido, and all are the same arguments mentioned above: sounds cheesy, redundant, sounds trendy, etc.  Some even went so far as to say that it was disrespectful to other hapkido systems because it "implies" that they are not for combat (I disagreed with that).

Go to the demo class, dig into the guy's credentials, find out what his system entails and what it is about it that makes it "combat" as opposed to something else.  

Daniel


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## Xue Sheng (Jul 2, 2010)

Jonathan said:


> ... what does that mean to you?
> 
> I mean, I know JKD is not a style so much as a concept. The website of a school I'm considering suggests that it's basically teaching 'fighting tactics'
> 
> ...


 
It means its practitioners are SISSIES compared to those that train Ultimate Combat JKD for Combat. 

I vote marketing


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## punisher73 (Jul 6, 2010)

Tez3 said:


> Are you sure it was 'tactical pull ups' and not 'tactical pulling', our squaddies do the latter all the time, no female is immune from having a squaddie trying to pull her


 
Nope, it was pull ups as in the chin up variety.  It was a seminar attached with a kettlebell trainer (can't remember if the kettlebells were a part of it or not).

That is why it was so ridiculous, it wasn't "tactical" at all.  There was information on how to train and pyramid your training to get stronger etc. and was probably really good EXERCISE information, but to call it tactical?


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## jfjkd11000 (Jul 6, 2010)

_I think there are good things about Clugston's material, but I don't think he is the best thing since the discovery of fire._


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