# External qi gong?



## qi-tah (Jun 27, 2007)

Hi again,

Twas just wondering, is there such a thing as "external qi gong" in the systems that you learn? My first teacher taught me this short warm up drill for Zi ran men practice that he called "dung gong" and explained it as a type of external qi gong to raise your energy. Is this the same as Wai dan qi gong?


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## Rabu (Jun 27, 2007)

I will give it a go.

Internal and External.  Yin and Yang.

Yin exists in Yang.
Yang exists in Yin.

We perform an external Qigong called 'Tiger Breathing'. We also perform an internal Qigong during our warm ups for class.  

The Tiger Breathing has real obvious breathing and tension during its performance.  The Qigong for internal developement has a vastly more relaxed practice with only the last section containing an apparently vigorous breath.

Both are Qigong.  Both are internal and external.  One is much more internal, one is much more external.  Both elements must exist.

So yes.  Internal and External Qigong are practiced in the Northern Shaolin I practice.

Does that help?

Regards,

Rob


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## Xue Sheng (Jun 27, 2007)

There is external qigong training in many CMA styles.


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## JadecloudAlchemist (Jun 27, 2007)

```
Twas just wondering, is there such a thing as "external qi gong" in the systems that you learn? My first teacher taught me this short warm up drill for Zi ran men practice that he called "dung gong" and explained it as a type of external qi gong to raise your energy. Is this the same as Wai dan qi gong?
```
 Wai means external you can have Wai dan Wai gong etc. So External Qigong= Wai=external Qigong. Wai dan Qigong like Nei dan Qigong  raise energy just one is internal one is external.


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## qi-tah (Jun 28, 2007)

Ok, feel a bit dumb now... certainly not expressing myself very well!  On doing a bit of reading, it seems that everything i do except standing tree is wei gong! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





But i am still a little confused about what is considered wai and what is considered nei... does anyone else do one finger qi gong? That feels external to me, but looks a bit like some of the internal stuff i am reading about. Also, does anybody know if it's a good idea to concentrate on the microcosmic orbit when you are doing some wei gong exercises (i do this when i'm practicing some of my 5 element exercises). I mean, we seal the breath and everything, so why not? Can wei gong and nei gong exist in the same exercise, like the internal within the external?? Conceptually this makes sense to me but i don't know if it's a particualy practical idea...

Qi gong is something we do a bit of in class, but it's not talked about very much - i'm still trying  my head around some of the concepts. Sorry if some of my questions seem hell obvious...


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## qi-tah (Jun 28, 2007)

Btw, that "warm-up" qi gong i mentioned in my first post is called something like "Chen ba chuan". Unsure 'cause i'd only just started CMA when i learnt it and never saw the name written down. It has a lot of extreme twists and reaches, pressing up and down, hard exhales and clapping in it. Sound like anything anyone else knows about? I think my teacher at the time said it was meant to raise fire to the triple-burner or something, which is why we used it for warm-ups.


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## Xue Sheng (Jun 28, 2007)

qi-tah said:


> Btw, that "warm-up" qi gong i mentioned in my first post is called something like "Chen ba chuan". Unsure 'cause i'd only just started CMA when i learnt it and never saw the name written down. It has a lot of extreme twists and reaches, pressing up and down, hard exhales and clapping in it. Sound like anything anyone else knows about? I think my teacher at the time said it was meant to raise fire to the triple-burner or something, which is why we used it for warm-ups.


 
Chen ba chuan.... Chen 8 fist?


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## qi-tah (Jun 28, 2007)

Xue Sheng said:


> Chen ba chuan.... Chen 8 fist?


 
Your guess would be as good as mine... actually prob a lot better! :asian: As i said, that's just what it sounded like. There are grasping motions in the form that end in fists, but only 6 of them, not eight, so...?? 
Mind you, my first teacher did study Chen taiji though... ah well, count me confused...


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## Xue Sheng (Jun 28, 2007)

qi-tah said:


> Ok, feel a bit dumb now... certainly not expressing myself very well! On doing a bit of reading, it seems that everything i do except standing tree is wei gong!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Wai tends to move thinking externally trains from outside to inside. Wai begins training more focused on muscles, skin and bones

Nei tends to move internally (all movement originates from the dantian) it trains from inside to outside Nei tends to focus on the internal first, strengthening qi and qi circulation and infusing qi to the bones. 

But as time goes on and as the training progresses they tend to get very similar.


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## JadecloudAlchemist (Jun 28, 2007)

> But i am still a little confused about what is considered wai and what is considered nei... does anyone else do one finger qi gong? That feels external to me, but looks a bit like some of the internal stuff i am reading about. Also, does anybody know if it's a good idea to concentrate on the microcosmic orbit when you are doing some wei gong exercises (i do this when i'm practicing some of my 5 element exercises). I mean, we seal the breath and everything, so why not? Can wei gong and nei gong exist in the same exercise, like the internal within the external?? Conceptually this makes sense to me but i don't know if it's a particualy practical idea...


What are you actually confused about?
The microcosmic orbit also known as small circulation flows normally the Du and Ren channel do this all the time and it circulation is also the path of Wei Qi however, the idea about small circulation is that 1. If you have built enough Qi in the lower Dan tian it will naturally flow on its own because of the abudant Qi which will then travel up the spine think of your dan tian as a stove cooking rice which the steam rises and traveling up the spine and then back into the stove. 2. The second idea is for someone who guides Qi thru the channels . IMO I think guiding is good for first practicing but at the same time you should be culivating more Qi so it can arrive by its own which will result in things like insects on your head.
Sealing the breath from what I know is either holding the breath correctly which I personally do not feel is the correct way to perform the exercise I think again stop breathing=the breath breathes naturally on its own is the correct method however I also think abdominal breathing will act as bellows to light the stove ala Dan tian. A compent teacher will be able to direct you in the correct practices and be able to give you the pro's and cons to the methods. Each school or teacher may differ on what is correct or not I know personally I would not even teach this method until the student firmed the jing gathered Qi and knew how to relax enough to guide the Qi. Can Wai dan and Nei dan exist in an exercise? I know a technquie of small circulation involving using first the internal part of guiding Qi up the spine to Dai zhui then doing a wai dan type push up to open up the lungs Dai zhui point is good for the lungs and the push up acts on zhong fu-lung 1 and yun men-lung 2 which helps heal the lungs as the exercise is designed for. That is one example of combination of Wai dan Nei dan and acupunture points.
As for the question on wai dan and Nei dan I answered that on what the meaning of the word is and Xue Sheng went into a little more details on that.


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## JadecloudAlchemist (Jun 28, 2007)

> But i am still a little confused about what is considered wai and what is considered nei... does anyone else do one finger qi gong? That feels external to me, but looks a bit like some of the internal stuff i am reading about. Also, does anybody know if it's a good idea to concentrate on the microcosmic orbit when you are doing some wei gong exercises (i do this when i'm practicing some of my 5 element exercises). I mean, we seal the breath and everything, so why not? Can wei gong and nei gong exist in the same exercise, like the internal within the external?? Conceptually this makes sense to me but i don't know if it's a particualy practical idea...


What are you actually confused about?
The microcosmic orbit also known as small circulation flows normally the Du and Ren channel do this all the time and it circulation is also the path of Wei Qi however, the idea about small circulation is that 1. If you have built enough Qi in the lower Dan tian it will naturally flow on its own because of the abudant Qi which will then travel up the spine think of your dan tian as a stove cooking rice which the steam rises and traveling up the spine and then back into the stove. 2. The second idea is for someone who guides Qi thru the channels . IMO I think guiding is good for first practicing but at the same time you should be culivating more Qi so it can arrive by its own which will result in things like insects on your head.
Sealing the breath from what I know is either holding the breath correctly which I personally do not feel is the correct way to perform the exercise I think again stop breathing=the breath breathes naturally on its own is the correct method however I also think abdominal breathing will act as bellows to light the stove ala Dan tian. A compent teacher will be able to direct you in the correct practices and be able to give you the pro's and cons to the methods. Each school or teacher may differ on what is correct or not I know personally I would not even teach this method until the student firmed the jing gathered Qi and knew how to relax enough to guide the Qi. Can Wai dan and Nei dan exist in an exercise? I know a technquie of small circulation involving using first the internal part of guiding Qi up the spine to Dai zhui then doing a wai dan type push up to open up the lungs Dai zhui point is good for the lungs and the push up acts on zhong fu-lung 1 and yun men-lung 2 which helps heal the lungs as the exercise is designed for. That is one example of combination of Wai dan Nei dan and acupunture points.
As for the question on wai dan and Nei dan I answered that on what the meaning of the word is and Xue Sheng went into a little more details on that.


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