# Traffic stop / Concealed Carry



## Mark L (Dec 26, 2008)

What are your thoughts on informing/not informing an LEO during a traffic stop the you are carrying concealed?  My question pre-supposes that individual is properly licensed.


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## Blindside (Dec 26, 2008)

Under Utah state law (where I was issued my permit), it is a requirement that a CCW holder indicate that he is carrying to the the officer during a contact.  Even if this is not a requirement in your state it just makes sense to not have a "misunderstanding."


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## elder999 (Dec 26, 2008)

I'm in New Mexico, get pulled over enough, and *always* let them know-even if I just have a firearm in the vehicle, never mind on my person.......

.......I'd probably put one of those electronic signs in my rear window if I lived in Massachussetstan, and turn it on whenever I got stopped:

*GUN ON BOARD.* :lfao:


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## David Weatherly (Dec 26, 2008)

Let the officer know right away that you are carrying and that you have a permit.  Ask him how you should procede.
You'll avoid a lot of problems.

David


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## MJS (Dec 26, 2008)

Mark L said:


> What are your thoughts on informing/not informing an LEO during a traffic stop the you are carrying concealed? My question pre-supposes that individual is properly licensed.


 
The few times that I've been pulled over, I was asked if I had any weapons in the vehicle.  IMO though, regardless of whether or not you are asked, it may be a good idea to mention it.  I say this because I'm a big advocate of doing whatever I can to put their mind at ease.  If I didn't tell them, and I had something, I might wish that I had.


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## Mark L (Dec 26, 2008)

David Weatherly said:


> Let the officer know right away that you are carrying and that you have a permit.  Ask him how you should procede.
> You'll avoid a lot of problems.
> 
> David


I've been looking at this issue on a firearms forum I frequent.  The general consensus there, from carriers as opposed to LEOs, is to say nothing unless there's reason to believe the weapon is or will be exposed (getting out of the vehicle, reaching for documents, etc.).  Then indicate proper licensing, concealed carry, and "How would you like to proceed?".  This is counter to my intuition, but I've read some fairly convincing arguments favoring silence.  I'm interested in both perspectives ...


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## Brian R. VanCise (Dec 26, 2008)

Each State usually has there own rules and requirements for ccw or cpl holders.  Know your State laws and also any reciprocal State that you might be traveling through.  In the State of Michigan you had better announce it and produce your license.  Failure to do so could be very bad for you. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Also understand that their is a good likelihood that after they run your plate they will also know you are a ccw or cpl holder and then you could be in for some serious legal issues.  In the State of Michigan this is certainly the case.


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## stickarts (Dec 26, 2008)

I would tell them promptly.


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## searcher (Dec 26, 2008)

Here in KS, we only have to inform the LE we are carrying IF he asks us.   We are required to show him our license if he requests and we are to surrender our carry gun if he requests.    On a side note, if they run your license, it will show that you are a CCH holder.   So this will let the LE know that the driver is a CCH as soon as he runs the license.


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## elder999 (Dec 26, 2008)

Brian R. VanCise said:


> Each State usually has there own rules and requirements for ccw or cpl holders. Know your State laws and also any reciprocal State that you might be traveling through. In the State of Michigan you had better announce it and produce your license. Failure to do so could be very bad for you.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
In addition to being an open carry state, NM is a domain state, meaning that your car is an extension of your home. All of that aside, while it's not required to declare being in possession of a firearm, given the remoteness of most locations it just a courtesy that makes good sense. IF your a CCW  holder, the cop is going to have a pretty good idea that you're not a bad guy.....


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## seasoned (Dec 26, 2008)

I always vie on the side of caution, if for some unforeseen reason, you are asked to exit your vehicle, this could cause a big problem. Common sense must prevail, it is easier to tell, and put at ease, then explain afterwards, while going back into your wallet a second time for your permit. Traffic stops rank high on the list of dangerous incidences for LEO.


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## David Weatherly (Dec 26, 2008)

As others have pointed out, in many states the officer will know right away that you've come up as someone with a concealed carry permit.  If you don't tell them up front, it may cause them concern or suspicion.  

I'm curious, why would you not tell them?  Provided you've done nothing wrong it only benefits you to be completly up front and try to avoid any issues from the begining.

David


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## ganglian (Dec 26, 2008)

Mark L said:


> What are your thoughts on informing/not informing an LEO during a traffic stop the you are carrying concealed?  My question pre-supposes that individual is properly licensed.




From the point of view of expediency it seems like it cause more grief than it wouldn't, but there is the risk it comes out obviously....


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## punisher73 (Dec 26, 2008)

Look into your own state CCW laws, they can vary from state to state.  

In Michigan for example, YOU ARE REQUIRED to tell them if you have a CCW and are carrying.  If you get stopped put both hands on the steering wheel so the officer can see them and tell them that you have a valid CCW and are carrying.  Ask them what they would like you to do.  While NOT a specific law yet, in Michigan it will show up when they officer runs you on LEIN that you have a CCW, it's a good idea to proceed as above, but tell them that you have a CCW and are not carrying.  This way it doesn't add extra stress to the officer when he suddenly discovers you have a CCW and are carrying but not telling him.

Get as informed as you can on the subject.  Local laws can prohibit carrying in certain locations as well and you need to know the proper way to transport a firearm in your vehicle if it is not on your person.


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## jks9199 (Dec 26, 2008)

Mark L said:


> I've been looking at this issue on a firearms forum I frequent.  The general consensus there, from carriers as opposed to LEOs, is to say nothing unless there's reason to believe the weapon is or will be exposed (getting out of the vehicle, reaching for documents, etc.).  Then indicate proper licensing, concealed carry, and "How would you like to proceed?".  This is counter to my intuition, but I've read some fairly convincing arguments favoring silence.  I'm interested in both perspectives ...



Here's the problem with the "don't tell unless" approach:  You may think the cop won't see it -- but he may anyway.  Which may lead to a very uncomfortable situation as you're ordered out of the car at gunpoint.  

Many states now include CCW information with driver license and sometimes even vehicle checks.  The cop may know of the possibility that you're armed when he stops the car.



Brian R. VanCise said:


> Each State usually has there own rules and requirements for ccw or cpl holders.  Know your State laws and also any reciprocal State that you might be traveling through.  In the State of Michigan you had better announce it and produce your license.  Failure to do so could be very bad for you.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Very important advice, Brian.  Know what the state requires -- including what you're required to have with you when you carry.  But I will note this; in my experience, the CCW holders aren't problem children.  At least not intentionally...

This is what I, as a cop want from a CCW holder:
Let me know that you're carrying.  When I walk up, keep your hands in sight, preferably on the steering wheel, near the top.  Then tell me that you're carrying, that you have a CCW permit, and where the gun is.  That way, there are no suprises.  

Incidentally... it's what I do when I get stopped, too.  I identify myself, advise if i'm carrying  a gun, and where it is.


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## jks9199 (Dec 26, 2008)

Great point.  If you've got a CCW, but aren't carrying -- there's no harm in telling a cop that, either.


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## Mark L (Dec 26, 2008)

David Weatherly said:


> As others have pointed out, in many states the officer will know right away that you've come up as someone with a concealed carry permit.  If you don't tell them up front, it may cause them concern or suspicion.
> 
> I'm curious, why would you not tell them?  Provided you've done nothing wrong it only benefits you to be completly up front and try to avoid any issues from the begining.
> 
> David


As I indicated earlier, I've sought opinions on other forums.  The "why not" I've heard from those sources is that the lawful carrier hasn't always received civil treatment in some jurisdictions by those in disagreement with 2A, and has by others (thougt these are predominant).   Personally, I'd hand over my drivers license and LTC together ...

Thanks to all for your opinions ...


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## Andy Moynihan (Dec 26, 2008)

When i took my firearms instructor course at GOAL, the way I've heard it goes is like this:

In the event they tell you to exit the vehicle the first question they ask anyway is "Do you have any weapons?" 

You then answer, "I do need to show you my License To Carry, how would you like to proceed?" and then do what the nice officer says.


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## KenpoTex (Dec 26, 2008)

In states where I'm required to inform, I do so.  In states where I'm not (including the one where I currently live) it depends on the "feel" of the encounter...there have been times I have, and times I haven't.


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## MA-Caver (Dec 26, 2008)

Common sense dictates that you inform the officer when asked. If you are being asked to exit the vehicle and have the weapon on your person then inform the officer (while keeping both hands visible) and do what he says, be polite (natch) and let him know you have a CWP and your card is (where-ever)... 
I was driving a friend's car (with him along) and we got pulled over on a random check for insurance... I didn't know my friend had his weapon in the vehicle... but when we were asked to exit my friend promptly spoke up. The officer nodded and then waited for back up to arrive which they were going to anyway. My friend told the officer exactly where to find the weapon and we both were away from the car as it was searched. Officer did find it and placed it on the floor of the car. 
Everything was okay except that my friend's insurance was mixed up and that was cleared with a quick phone call and we were allowed to go on our way. 

Common sense, quiet calm interaction and full cooperation... that and nothing on your record  will make for a smooth LEO/armed citizen encounter go very nicely. As long as you're legal you're okay.


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## arnisador (Dec 26, 2008)

I'd be inclined to inform early, rather than risk looking deceptive...knowing your state's laws on the matter seems like good advice!


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## Rich Parsons (Dec 26, 2008)

Mark L said:


> What are your thoughts on informing/not informing an LEO during a traffic stop the you are carrying concealed? My question pre-supposes that individual is properly licensed.


 

In Michigan it is supposed to be required. It also should show up on a LEAN check when they run your plates. 

I always tell them, first thing. 

* Holding Driver's License, Ins, Registration, and CPL in hand *

"Officer, I have a CPL for the state of Mich." Usually at that point before I can tell the officer where the firearm is, i.e. on me or back at home, they ask "Where is the firearm/gun/weapon?". 

I have nothing to hide. 

I prefer to tell them, as they can decide how they wish to proceed from that point forward.


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## jks9199 (Dec 26, 2008)

Rich Parsons said:


> In Michigan it is supposed to be required. It also should show up on a LEAN check when they run your plates.
> 
> I always tell them, first thing.
> 
> ...


Excellent way to do things.

Let me offer two examples as illustrations:

I stopped a car one day, and the driver proceeds to tell me "I have a gun."  Nice...  pucker factor rising, "Why?" I ask.  "I'm a deputy sheriff..."  OK...  pucker easing, but "Got your credentials?"  Problem solved.  But my coming out with "I'm armed" by itself... kind of worrisome.

Another time, I stopped another car.  Driver tells me he's got a CCW... but left his wallet at his buddies.  And he's armed...  OK -- things are pretty cool; he's telling me what's going on.  I'm running him -- and he's not coming back with a CCW.  Problem... At this point, back up is rolling my way.  I secure the gun, while we figure out what's going on.  Eventually, he calls his buddy to deliver his wallet, and we discover a glitch in the CCW-DMV link... if the names aren't exactly the same on both, they don't cross over properly.  Note that everything was handled reasonably low key because of how the driver told me.

Let's look at the second example, and have it go a little bad.  I see the gun on his waist as he leans over for the registration.  He can't open the window because of a brand new (illegal) window tint job... and as he's leaning over, I see a gun.  OH CRAP!!  Now I'm taking him out of the car at gunpoint.  He's screaming he's got a CCW -- but it's not on him, and it's not coming up in the computer.  Guess what... He's hooked.  He'll beat the basic charge at trial; it'll probably be reduced to failing to carry his CCW... and might get the CCW revoked.  But he's been locked up.  Again, this is hypothetical -- but very easy with a very slight twist in the circumstances.


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## Rich Parsons (Dec 26, 2008)

jks9199 said:


> Excellent way to do things.


 
Thank you



jks9199 said:


> Another time, I stopped another car. Driver tells me he's got a CCW... but left his wallet at his buddies. And he's armed... OK -- things are pretty cool; he's telling me what's going on. I'm running him -- and he's not coming back with a CCW. Problem... At this point, back up is rolling my way. I secure the gun, while we figure out what's going on. Eventually, he calls his buddy to deliver his wallet, and we discover a glitch in the CCW-DMV link... if the names aren't exactly the same on both, they don't cross over properly. Note that everything was handled reasonably low key because of how the driver told me.


 
 I am a Junior and this happens to me all the time. (* Almost every officer I have told acted surprised even if they had already ran my plates. *) Some times there is a field for Junior and it is used. Other times the last name becomes some variation i.e. Parsons Jr or Parsons Jr. or Parsons Junior.


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## sgtmac_46 (Dec 27, 2008)

MA-Caver said:


> Common sense dictates that you inform the officer when asked. If you are being asked to exit the vehicle and have the weapon on your person then inform the officer (while keeping both hands visible) and do what he says, be polite (natch) and let him know you have a CWP and your card is (where-ever)...
> I was driving a friend's car (with him along) and we got pulled over on a random check for insurance... I didn't know my friend had his weapon in the vehicle... but when we were asked to exit my friend promptly spoke up. The officer nodded and then waited for back up to arrive which they were going to anyway. My friend told the officer exactly where to find the weapon and we both were away from the car as it was searched. Officer did find it and placed it on the floor of the car.
> Everything was okay except that my friend's insurance was mixed up and that was cleared with a quick phone call and we were allowed to go on our way.
> 
> Common sense, quiet calm interaction and full cooperation... that and nothing on your record  will make for a smooth LEO/armed citizen encounter go very nicely. As long as you're legal you're okay.



I agree......most off duty cops will volunteer the fact that they have a weapon if they get pulled over....MOSTLY as a segueway to pointed out 'Hey, i'm a COP!' 

But the reality is that i'm not mentioning the gun until it comes time to mention the gun.  I don't drive around with it visible from the outside, so they aren't going to see it.  If they ask, i'll tell them, but i'm going to follow the don't ask, don't tell line of reasoning.

There is moment of discomfort when the guy says 'HEY, by the way, i've got a gun!'  'OH YEAH?!  Why do you have a gun?'  If it's not an issue, it's not an issue.  If it's going to be visible, however, it's better to FIRST note that you're an off-duty cop or CCW carrier......THEN let them ask you if you have the gun on you, rather than blurting out 'GUN!'


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## Brian R. VanCise (Dec 27, 2008)

jks9199 said:


> Here's the problem with the "don't tell unless" approach:  You may think the cop won't see it -- but he may anyway.  Which may lead to a very uncomfortable situation as you're ordered out of the car at gunpoint.
> 
> Many states now include CCW information with driver license and sometimes even vehicle checks.  The cop may know of the possibility that you're armed when he stops the car.
> 
> ...



Exactly.  In Michigan it is written into the law what you must do and really it is also common courtesy to let an LEO know what is going on.  That way nobody gets spooked. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  I am also totally in agreement with having your hands on the wheel whether you are a ccw/cpl holder or not.  That is also common courtesy yet again and should be taught to our populace at large.


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## searcher (Dec 27, 2008)

Great replies here so far and I think you all are right on track with your local laws.

Here is a little tid-bit I want to add, just in case you carry and get pulled over.   I carry every day and I make sure that the holster I carry in can be removed WITH the pistol if the LE would like me to surrender it.   I got this from my CCH instructor and thought it was well worth pursuing vs. having a holster that would require me to surrender the pistol out of the holster.    The thought behind this is, that the LE looks at a holstered pistol as LESS of a threat to him.   And can save everyones nerves just a bit.

Thought I would add this little item.


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## Andy Moynihan (Dec 27, 2008)

searcher said:


> Great replies here so far and I think you all are right on track with your local laws.
> 
> Here is a little tid-bit I want to add, just in case you carry and get pulled over. I carry every day and I make sure that the holster I carry in can be removed WITH the pistol if the LE would like me to surrender it. I got this from my CCH instructor and thought it was well worth pursuing vs. having a holster that would require me to surrender the pistol out of the holster. The thought behind this is, that the LE looks at a holstered pistol as LESS of a threat to him. And can save everyones nerves just a bit.
> 
> Thought I would add this little item.


 

That could actually be done in my case as well since more often than not I use a shoulder rig....


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## KenpoTex (Dec 27, 2008)

searcher said:


> Great replies here so far and I think you all are right on track with your local laws.
> 
> Here is a little tid-bit I want to add, just in case you carry and get pulled over. I carry every day and I make sure that the holster I carry in can be removed WITH the pistol if the LE would like me to surrender it. I got this from my CCH instructor and thought it was well worth pursuing vs. having a holster that would require me to surrender the pistol out of the holster. The thought behind this is, that the LE looks at a holstered pistol as LESS of a threat to him. And can save everyones nerves just a bit.
> 
> Thought I would add this little item.


 
If the officer ever told me he/she wanted to secure my weapon, I would definitely _ask_ if I could just remove the holster along with it.  I carry in the appendix position and I don't want deputy dawg trying to get a loaded Glock out of my holster...


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## jks9199 (Dec 27, 2008)

KenpoTex said:


> If the officer ever told me he/she wanted to secure my weapon, I would definitely _ask_ if I could just remove the holster along with it.  I carry in the appendix position and I don't want deputy dawg trying to get a loaded Glock out of my holster...


I'll tell you -- the answer to that one is almost certainly going to be NO.

There's a reason I'm securing your weapon; if I don't trust you enough that I'm going to secure it, YOU aren't pulling it out, either.  I may let you remove and hand me a paddle holster -- but you're not unthreading a holster from your belt.

It's not personal.  It's purely about my safety.  But... I carry Glocks.  I'm pretty confident I can manage to remove it without shooting either of us.

But, if you've got everything in order, we probably won't reach that point.  In the one example I gave -- it only became a problem when things didn't match up and he didn't have his CCW on him.


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## KenpoTex (Dec 27, 2008)

jks9199 said:
			
		

> I'll tell you -- the answer to that one is almost certainly going to be NO.
> 
> There's a reason I'm securing your weapon; if I don't trust you enough that I'm going to secure it, YOU aren't pulling it out, either. I may let you remove and hand me a paddle holster -- but you're not unthreading a holster from your belt.


Oh, understood...I didn't specify in my previous post but it's belt clip holster that just slips on and off...whether that will matter or not will obviously depend on the officer in question.



			
				jks9199 said:
			
		

> It's not personal. It's purely about my safety. But... I carry Glocks. I'm pretty confident I can manage to remove it without shooting either of us.


You might, but I've met some dumbasses about whom I have my doubts.


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## Carol (Dec 27, 2008)

Having been through more traffic stops than perhaps any other MT member in the last two years (except for our LEO members...LOL) ... if I were in that position, I'd be inclined to show my CCW right away.  The LEOs that I pass on my midnight commute home have enough unpredictable variables they have to deal with on the roads....I sure as heck don't want to be one of them.


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## Drac (Dec 29, 2008)

jks9199 said:


> it only became a problem when things didn't match up and he didn't have his CCW on him.


 
Good point...If you have a CCW permit carry it on you *AT ALL* *TIMES*...Tuck it behind your drivers license...


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## kyosa (Jan 3, 2009)

punisher73 said:


> In Michigan for example, YOU ARE REQUIRED to tell them if you have a CCW and are carrying. If you get stopped put both hands on the steering wheel so the officer can see them and tell them that you have a valid CCW and are carrying. Ask them what they would like you to do.


 
This is exactly what you should do from an LEO's perspective. I carry almost all the time (In my house it's called "going naked" if you're not carrying) and the only persons who have noticed were current or former LEO's. If you exit your car and haven't told the officer you are carrying and he notices that you are things are going to get ugly real quick. For your safety and the safety of the officer keep your hands on the wheel and let the officer know you are carrying. I wish Minnesota would list on the QDP's and QMR's that the person has a CCP. IMHO it is STUPID that it isn't listed. 

On a side note Minnesota has over 100,000 CCP out there and for the year 2007 only 2 of those persons used their hand guns to commit a crime. Statistically, persons who do carry seldom use a firearm to commit crimes which is usually the beef that most people have with allowing persons to carry.


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## searcher (Jan 3, 2009)

Drac said:


> Good point...If you have a CCW permit carry it on you *AT ALL* *TIMES*...Tuck it behind your drivers license...


 

Often overlooked and here in KS it will get you some jail time.  Not to mention, you will never legally carry again.


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