# Experience in a SD seminar



## Monkey Turned Wolf (Aug 10, 2018)

I decided against leaving this post up, since some of you may know or be able to figure out what hospital I work at, and it wasn't exactly a positive post. Saving it in my email just in case I ever decide to post it, so if any of you want to read it I can pm it to you, but not leaving it out in public for now.


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## CB Jones (Aug 10, 2018)

kempodisciple said:


> I decided against leaving this post up, since some of you may know or be able to figure out what hospital I work at, and it wasn't exactly a positive post. Saving it in my email just in case I ever decide to post it, so if any of you want to read it I can pm it to you, but not leaving it out in public for now.



Ok you have my curiosity.....please pm me it.


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## drop bear (Aug 10, 2018)

Let me guess. Industry training?


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Aug 10, 2018)

CB Jones said:


> Ok you have my curiosity.....please pm me it.


Once i get home ill send it to you. Its a doozy of a post


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Aug 10, 2018)

drop bear said:


> Let me guess. Industry training?


Short answer: all the complaints you've made, that i thought i understood, i now actually understand. Ill be reading your posts in a whole new light.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Aug 10, 2018)

CB Jones said:


> Ok you have my curiosity.....please pm me it.


Sent! If anyone else wants to read it, let me know.


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## Michele123 (Aug 10, 2018)

kempodisciple said:


> Sent! If anyone else wants to read it, let me know.



You have my curiosity piqued. I’d love to read it. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## drop bear (Aug 10, 2018)

kempodisciple said:


> Short answer: all the complaints you've made, that i thought i understood, i now actually understand. Ill be reading your posts in a whole new light.



I laughed so hard I almost spit my coffee.


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## Deleted member 39746 (Aug 11, 2018)

I want to  read it.


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## Gerry Seymour (Aug 12, 2018)

drop bear said:


> I laughed so hard I almost spit my coffee.


Hey, humor's no reason to waste good coffee!


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## Steve (Aug 12, 2018)

kempodisciple said:


> Sent! If anyone else wants to read it, let me know.


Hey man.  I would like to read it, if you don’t mind.  Thanks.


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## Anarax (Aug 12, 2018)

kempodisciple said:


> I decided against leaving this post up, since some of you may know or be able to figure out what hospital I work at, and it wasn't exactly a positive post. Saving it in my email just in case I ever decide to post it, so if any of you want to read it I can pm it to you, but not leaving it out in public for now.


I'd like to read it


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## pdg (Aug 12, 2018)

drop bear said:


> I laughed so hard I almost spit my coffee.



Well after that I feel the need to read


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## Martial D (Aug 12, 2018)

kempodisciple said:


> Sent! If anyone else wants to read it, let me know.


It's been my life's ambition to learn what hospital you work at, as of 15 seconds ago when I found out you worked at a hospital, and now I'm foiled.

But seriously, I wanna read it too


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Aug 12, 2018)

Too tired to log onto my computer now, will send it to all of you in the morning


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## now disabled (Aug 12, 2018)

gpseymour said:


> Hey, humor's no reason to waste good coffee![/QUO
> 
> 
> And your keyboard will use not thank you either .................mind you it is always an excuse if your posts don't come out right lol....just blame it on the sticky keys ya spat the coffee on lol


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## hoshin1600 (Aug 13, 2018)

I would be interested in knowing your experience.
But also maybe we could all discuss in a non specific way that would not be pointed at any particular group how industry training fails.
For myself I have taught prison guards out side of the correctional system. They would come back from some of their state required  training and talk about how useless it was.  So why is that?  I believe in part it is because state or company training is only provided for liability reasons to protect the institution and have no real interest in the application and effectiveness of what is being taught.  Second;  the program selection is often more about political connections then content and those in charge of the selection process have no more experience on the subject that what can be found on Google and netflix. But because they are "in charge" they have the self conflated image of being right.


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## now disabled (Aug 13, 2018)

hoshin1600 said:


> I would be interested in knowing your experience.
> But also maybe we could all discuss in a non specific way that would not be pointed at any particular group how industry training fails.
> For myself I have taught prison guards out side of the correctional system. They would come back from some of their state required  training and talk about how useless it was.  So why is that?  I believe in part it is because state or company training is only provided for liability reasons to protect the institution and have no real interest in the application and effectiveness of what is being taught.  Second;  the program selection is often more about political connections then content and those in charge of the selection process have no more experience on the subject that what can be found on Google and netflix. But because they are "in charge" they have the self conflated image of being right.




I think you have hit the nail squarely on the head in your post.

I've attended seminars supposedly designed for the corporate world and well ...to me as you say it about covering liability more than anything. I am not saying that the instructors are all necessarily bad (some I have come across were in their own rights well versed martial artists) but how they distill things down into one two or three days is where most of the issues lie imo. I was at one that was supposedly teaching techs for the employees to have some form of SD training as one of the employees had been attacked on way home from work close to the building they worked in. I happened to be there as my late wife was an employee and I basically stuck my nose in (it ran over three nights).

What they "taught" was ok in as much as they did go into depth about the being aware sticking to populated areas trying to avoid unlit areas at night etc which is all standard stuff ...when it came to the tech they chose again basically nothing wrong essentially just imo how can you teach any person things in basically 6 hours (2 hour classes) that (a) they going to remember (b) they going to be able to apply (c) they are even able to apply ... not being critical overly but things to become second nature it takes a bit of time and sometimes individual attention to break things down as not all folks get things right off.

This is just my opinion but is corporations etc really want to "do" that for their staff etc then they would be much better doing so on a revolving basis as in like people attend a class every week , do it that way so it is revolving and things can be looked at on an ongoing basis and also any individual concerns can be addressed etc as opposed to running the "token" SD lecture but that just my opinion.

And yes it is all down to the people who control the money what is offered and a snazy website they look at can sway people into choosing that company to provide ...and as you rightly said if the finance guys really don't know then not always are they gonna make the right choice


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## Dirty Dog (Aug 13, 2018)

hoshin1600 said:


> I would be interested in knowing your experience.
> But also maybe we could all discuss in a non specific way that would not be pointed at any particular group how industry training fails.
> For myself I have taught prison guards out side of the correctional system. They would come back from some of their state required  training and talk about how useless it was.  So why is that?  I believe in part it is because state or company training is only provided for liability reasons to protect the institution and have no real interest in the application and effectiveness of what is being taught.  Second;  the program selection is often more about political connections then content and those in charge of the selection process have no more experience on the subject that what can be found on Google and netflix. But because they are "in charge" they have the self conflated image of being right.



This is certainly true of the training given to hospital staff.
I always attend, because it's mandatory. But I spend most of the time facepalming and biting my tongue.


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## Gerry Seymour (Aug 13, 2018)

kempodisciple said:


> Too tired to log onto my computer now, will send it to all of you in the morning


Add me to the list, please.


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## Gerry Seymour (Aug 13, 2018)

hoshin1600 said:


> I would be interested in knowing your experience.
> But also maybe we could all discuss in a non specific way that would not be pointed at any particular group how industry training fails.
> For myself I have taught prison guards out side of the correctional system. They would come back from some of their state required  training and talk about how useless it was.  So why is that?  I believe in part it is because state or company training is only provided for liability reasons to protect the institution and have no real interest in the application and effectiveness of what is being taught.  Second;  the program selection is often more about political connections then content and those in charge of the selection process have no more experience on the subject that what can be found on Google and netflix. But because they are "in charge" they have the self conflated image of being right.


I think part of the problem is that in many cases the people authorizing the training (administrators) feel like they should specify what the training must be/include. Often, they aren't actually qualified to do this, so the specifications they create actually hamper the training. It might include restrictions on training methods, specific techniques/approaches that can't be taught (they had an almost-injury once, so "X" can't be taught), and requirements that specific approaches be taught. The latter isn't necessarily a hindrance, unless you bring in a trainer who's not versed in that specific method. So, if it required that a BJJ-style ground arm bar is taught, that wouldn't be an issue if the trainer knows that technique well enough to cover when to use it, how to use it, and can teach it efficiently. But if I was the trainer, that'd be a problem, because my experience with that technique is rather thin (more about defending against it).


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## Gerry Seymour (Aug 13, 2018)

now disabled said:


> I think you have hit the nail squarely on the head in your post.
> 
> I've attended seminars supposedly designed for the corporate world and well ...to me as you say it about covering liability more than anything. I am not saying that the instructors are all necessarily bad (some I have come across were in their own rights well versed martial artists) but how they distill things down into one two or three days is where most of the issues lie imo. I was at one that was supposedly teaching techs for the employees to have some form of SD training as one of the employees had been attacked on way home from work close to the building they worked in. I happened to be there as my late wife was an employee and I basically stuck my nose in (it ran over three nights).
> 
> ...


You hit on the issue with seminars, in general. We can't really convey skill in a few hours to people who have no base to work from. Heck, when I go to a MA seminar, I'm not usually going to retain actual techniques, but just information I can use to improve what I already know. If they know almost nothing about physical defensive technique, there's only so much you can do to help. I think focusing too much on "finishing" is a flaw in many SD seminars. The focus should be the initial reaction (after the non-physical areas have been covered). And it should be made clear that continued practice is necessary if they want to actually be able to do these things.

I'd love to have a corporate client who put up for a weekly class for employees. I've never heard of one doing so, but it'd cost less than a lot of other employee benefits, and would bring some good to them (aspects of fitness, camaraderie, etc.).


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## Xue Sheng (Aug 13, 2018)

Dirty Dog said:


> This is certainly true of the training given to hospital staff.
> I always attend, because it's mandatory. But I spend most of the time facepalming and biting my tongue.



Been in mandatory SD training given by the hospital I use to work at...and the class was given by a nun..... pretty much spent most of that class like this







Did you know it takes 5 people to take someone down...2 for each arm, 2 for the legs and one to cradle the head so the person being taken down does not get hurt......


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## Xue Sheng (Aug 13, 2018)

kempodisciple said:


> I decided against leaving this post up, since some of you may know or be able to figure out what hospital I work at, and it wasn't exactly a positive post. Saving it in my email just in case I ever decide to post it, so if any of you want to read it I can pm it to you, but not leaving it out in public for now.



You got me interested, would you mind sending me the PM too....have to admit, you have a great way of getting all of us on MT to ask for more info....you should consider a career in sales


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## Gerry Seymour (Aug 13, 2018)

Xue Sheng said:


> Been in mandatory SD training given by the hospital I use to work at...and the class was given by a nun..... pretty much spent most of that class like this
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wow. She sounds far less intimidating than the nuns at the Catholic school I went to as a kid. I'm pretty sure any one of them could still take me down, with just a ruler and a stare.


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## pdg (Aug 13, 2018)

gpseymour said:


> Wow. She sounds far less intimidating than the nuns at the Catholic school I went to as a kid. I'm pretty sure any one of them could still take me down, with just a ruler and a stare.



Not a reflection on you, but I'm surprised they need a ruler


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## Xue Sheng (Aug 13, 2018)

gpseymour said:


> Wow. She sounds far less intimidating than the nuns at the Catholic school I went to as a kid. I'm pretty sure any one of them could still take me down, with just a ruler and a stare.



I know, imagine my surprise when it turned out to be so lame. I was expecting we would all be given metal edged rulers...but NOOOOOOOOO. I mean I never went to a Catholic School, but I have heard all the stories from those that did

There was a move taught to show you how to get someone to stop pulling your hair..... a couple slaps to the persons hand was all you needed.....she did not like my lock their hand to my head, bend over, lock them and ride them to the wall routine at all....it might hurt the person who was just trying to hurt me...and we don't want to injure them you know...... she also seemed to be oblivious that there were rather large detox and mental health units in that hospital, many of whom were brought in by the police in cuffs...


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## Gerry Seymour (Aug 13, 2018)

Xue Sheng said:


> I know, imagine my surprise when it turned out to be so lame. I was expecting we would all be given metal edged rulers...but NOOOOOOOOO. I mean I never went to a Catholic School, but I have heard all the stories from those that did
> 
> There was a move taught to show you how to get someone to stop pulling your hair..... a couple slaps to the persons hand was all you needed.....she did not like my lock their hand to my head, bend over, lock them and ride them to the wall routine at all....it might hurt the person who was just trying to hurt me...and we don't want to injure them you know...... she also seemed to be oblivious that there were rather large detox and mental health units in that hospital, many of whom were brought in by the police in cuffs...


Wow.


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## Mark Lynn (Aug 13, 2018)

Now I'm curious as well add me to the list I'd like to read about the seminar.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Aug 13, 2018)

I think I sent more private messages since posting this then throughout the 6 years I was on the site.



Xue Sheng said:


> You got me interested, would you mind sending me the PM too....have to admit, you have a great way of getting all of us on MT to ask for more info....you should consider a career in sales



Entirely accidental, I promise you.


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## Martial D (Aug 13, 2018)

Having now read it, all I can really say is...


Yup. 

Self defense as it is today is garbage for the most part. You just can't learn to effectivly 'do' any of the non verbal part under any sort of pressure when all you have is a few hours of stuff you only kind of remember 6 months down the road.

To make it 'effective' requires a lot more time investment and quality of training. AFAIK there is no acreditation for SD instruction, so you could get Bas Rutten, but you could also get Mr bean. And if you know nothing you have no way of knowing who is who.


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## Xue Sheng (Aug 13, 2018)

gpseymour said:


> Wow.



And don't get me started on the verbal de-escalation techniques..... we all know how reasonable a bleeding heroin addict in need of a fix is right...(yup, dealt with one of those too..... and sadly I never once used the verbal techniques they taught as to finding out what their reasoning was for these actions, or making them feel safe, and letting them know I was here to help them in order to calm them down.)


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## Gerry Seymour (Aug 13, 2018)

Xue Sheng said:


> And don't get me started on the verbal de-escalation techniques..... we all know how reasonable a bleeding heroin addict in need of a fix is right...(yup, dealt with one of those too..... and sadly I never once used the verbal techniques they taught as to finding out what their reasoning was for these actions, or making them feel safe, and letting them know I was here to help them in order to calm them down.)


Possibly good advice for dealing with an annoyed customer. Unless that annoyed customer is a raging heroin addict.


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## hoshin1600 (Aug 13, 2018)

gpseymour said:


> I'd love to have a corporate client who put up for a weekly class for employees. I've never heard of one doing so, but it'd cost less than a lot of other employee benefits, and would bring some good to them (aspects of fitness, camaraderie, etc.).


I've actually done this but it has to fall into the fitness classification.  Many companies provide on sight fitness.


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## oftheherd1 (Aug 14, 2018)

kempodisciple said:


> Sent! If anyone else wants to read it, let me know.



I would appreciate a PM on that as well.


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## Buka (Aug 15, 2018)

I have written a detailed, step by step way to fix the entire problem. But I'm not about to post it.

See this tree?



 

I buried it at the base of this tree on Maui during a rainbow.

Come get it. I have beer and pizza.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Aug 15, 2018)

Buka said:


> I have written a detailed, step by step way to fix the entire problem. But I'm not about to post it.
> 
> See this tree?
> 
> ...


I so wish I had the time to take you up on that offer. One day I will.


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## JR 137 (Aug 16, 2018)

gpseymour said:


> Wow. She sounds far less intimidating than the nuns at the Catholic school I went to as a kid. I'm pretty sure any one of them could still take me down, with just a ruler and a stare.


I teach at a catholic school.  My very first question after I officially accepted the job was “now that I’m a catholic school teacher, can I use the ruler?”  My boss’s reply “only nuns are licensed to wield rulers.”   We both had a good laugh.

I didn’t go to catholic school, but I for all intents and purposes I might as well have - I’ve learned over the years that about 1/3 of my teachers were ex-nuns.  2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 6th grade, and several in junior and senior high school.  One teacher retired the year I graduated and became a priest.  I didn’t think my hometown was that religious.


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## Gerry Seymour (Aug 16, 2018)

JR 137 said:


> I teach at a catholic school.  My very first question after I officially accepted the job was “now that I’m a catholic school teacher, can I use the ruler?”  My boss’s reply “only nuns are licensed to wield rulers.”   We both had a good laugh.
> 
> I didn’t go to catholic school, but I for all intents and purposes I might as well have - I’ve learned over the years that about 1/3 of my teachers were ex-nuns.  2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 6th grade, and several in junior and senior high school.  One teacher retired the year I graduated and became a priest.  I didn’t think my hometown was that religious.


One of my brother's teachers left the convent after his last class. Yep, my brother drove a nun away from her faith.

Maybe she went on to teach you.


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## JR 137 (Aug 16, 2018)

gpseymour said:


> One of my brother's teachers left the convent after his last class. Yep, my brother drove a nun away from her faith.
> 
> Maybe she went on to teach you.


Probably 

The worst was 3rd grade - ex-nun from iron curtain Poland.  She slapped me around a few times.  I didn’t know it until a few years ago, but apparently my father physically threatened her in a parent-teacher conference with the principal present.  He told her “if you hit my son again, I’ll hit you.  You want to put your hands on someone who you shouldn’t put your hands on?  I’ll return the favor.  You’ve been warned.”  That was the 3rd meeting they had with her about hitting me.

This was the early 80s when people weren’t immediately arrested or fired for stuff like that.  My mother told me that story a few years ago.  That was the third meeting they had about hitting me.  Best part of it was I wasn’t close to being the worst behaved kid in that class, and I got it less than most others.


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## Xue Sheng (Aug 16, 2018)

Buka said:


> I have written a detailed, step by step way to fix the entire problem. But I'm not about to post it.
> 
> See this tree?
> 
> ...



 Is it near a long rock wall with a big oak tree at the north end? and under it I'll find a rock that has no earthly business in a Maui hayfield. Piece of black, volcanic glass...and I'll find something buried underneath it?.


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## Gerry Seymour (Aug 16, 2018)

JR 137 said:


> Probably
> 
> The worst was 3rd grade - ex-nun from iron curtain Poland.  She slapped me around a few times.  I didn’t know it until a few years ago, but apparently my father physically threatened her in a parent-teacher conference with the principal present.  He told her “if you hit my son again, I’ll hit you.  You want to put your hands on someone who you shouldn’t put your hands on?  I’ll return the favor.  You’ve been warned.”  That was the 3rd meeting they had with her about hitting me.
> 
> This was the early 80s when people weren’t immediately arrested or fired for stuff like that.  My mother told me that story a few years ago.  That was the third meeting they had about hitting me.  Best part of it was I wasn’t close to being the worst behaved kid in that class, and I got it less than most others.


Yeah, around that time I was in a homeroom class with a teacher who threw things at students. At least once, that included a desktop stapler.


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## Gerry Seymour (Aug 16, 2018)

Xue Sheng said:


> Is it near a long rock wall with a big oak tree at the north end? and under it I'll find a rock that has no earthly business in a Maui hayfield. Piece of black, volcanic glass...and I'll find something buried underneath it?.


Well, except that black volcanic glass has all kinds of earthly business being in a Maui hayfield. It's the hayfield that has no earthly business being around that rock.


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## Xue Sheng (Aug 16, 2018)

gpseymour said:


> Well, except that black volcanic glass has all kinds of earthly business being in a Maui hayfield. It's the hayfield that has no earthly business being around that rock.



SHEESH...technicalities... ok then

Is it near a long rock wall with a big oak tree, that has no earthly business in a Maui, at the north end? and under it I'll find a rock in a Maui hayfield that also has no earthly business in a Maui at all. Piece of black, volcanic glass...and I'll find something buried underneath it?.

There...now are you happy....


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## Gerry Seymour (Aug 16, 2018)

Xue Sheng said:


> SHEESH...technicalities... ok then
> 
> Is it near a long rock wall with a big oak tree, that has no earthly business in a Maui, at the north end? and under it I'll find a rock in a Maui hayfield that also has no earthly business in a Maui at all. Piece of black, volcanic glass...and I'll find something buried underneath it?.
> 
> There...now are you happy....


Much better. Thank you.


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## Buka (Aug 16, 2018)




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## _Simon_ (Aug 16, 2018)

gpseymour said:


> One of my brother's teachers left the convent after his last class. Yep, my brother drove a nun away from her faith.
> 
> Maybe she went on to teach you.


Perhaps it was.... the Kvorka...... *gasps*


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## Gerry Seymour (Aug 17, 2018)

_Simon_ said:


> Perhaps it was.... the Kvorka...... *gasps*


I'm afraid you lost me on that one, Simon.


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## Xue Sheng (Aug 17, 2018)

gpseymour said:


> I'm afraid you lost me on that one, Simon.



Had to look it up, think Kramer and Seinfeld





.


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## JR 137 (Aug 17, 2018)

gpseymour said:


> I'm afraid you lost me on that one, Simon.


See Xue Sheng’s video.  

Here I was thinking you’re a Seinfeld guy.  You let me down with that one.


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## _Simon_ (Aug 17, 2018)

Hehe yep you guys beat me to it ;P


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## Gerry Seymour (Aug 17, 2018)

JR 137 said:


> See Xue Sheng’s video.
> 
> Here I was thinking you’re a Seinfeld guy.  You let me down with that one.


I’ve seen most -maybe all - of Seinfeld. But probably only once, and as the Hobbit can attest, my memory for any detail is weak. I have to watch something many times to integrate much memory.


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## now disabled (Aug 18, 2018)

gpseymour said:


> I’ve seen most -maybe all - of Seinfeld. But probably only once, and as the Hobbit can attest, my memory for any detail is weak. I have to watch something many times to integrate much memory.




Welcome to the old dudes club lol......it only get worse btw lol


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## JR 137 (Aug 18, 2018)

gpseymour said:


> I’ve seen most -maybe all - of Seinfeld. But probably only once, and as the Hobbit can attest, my memory for any detail is weak. I have to watch something many times to integrate much memory.


I’ve got really weird memory issues - I can’t remember a to do list to save my life.  Long term memory - I don’t forget ANYTHING.

Through the first few years of our relationship, my wife thought I was making up short term memory issues.  Completely unrelated to it, I took what’s called the impact test, which is a computerized pre-screening concussion test I was giving to my athletes at the time.  According to it, my short term memory was in the 2nd percentile (for those who don’t know what that means, 98% of the people who’ve taken that test had a better short term memory score than me).  My reaction time was 98% percentile.

I printed the results and showed my boss, who was trying to be the cool guy saying his reaction time was better than most of our athletes’.  I buried him on the reaction time.  Then I highlighted the short term memory and wrote “now you can’t hold it against me when you ask me to do something and I forget!”  That place was a zoo.

I gave a copy to my wife too.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Aug 18, 2018)

JR 137 said:


> I’ve got really weird memory issues - I can’t remember a to do list to save my life.  Long term memory - I don’t forget ANYTHING.
> 
> Through the first few years of our relationship, my wife thought I was making up short term memory issues.  Completely unrelated to it, I took what’s called the impact test, which is a computerized pre-screening concussion test I was giving to my athletes at the time.  According to it, my short term memory was in the 2nd percentile (for those who don’t know what that means, 98% of the people who’ve taken that test had a better short term memory score than me).  My reaction time was 98% percentile.
> 
> ...


How does one take this test? I'm curious to see how bad my short term memory is


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## JR 137 (Aug 18, 2018)

kempodisciple said:


> How does one take this test? I'm curious to see how bad my short term memory is



We had to pay for a license/subscription/whatever it’s called.  Athletes would sign in under our school’s account and take a pre-season test as a baseline, then retake it after a concussion.  We’d compare the pre-test to the post-concussion test as part of our decision on return to activity.

So long story short, unless you know someone with a license, you’re probably not going to be able to take it.  And it’s a pretty in-depth test on several areas at once, so you’d probably come away thinking it wasn’t worth it for that one thing.

If you know someone in sports medicine like a physician, athletic trainer, etc., ask them if they use it and if you can take the test.  It’s basically become standard protocol in colleges athletics and larger high school athletics.  I know a few physicians who use it too.

Home | Concussion Management | ImPACT Applications Inc.


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## Dirty Dog (Aug 18, 2018)

kempodisciple said:


> How does one take this test? I'm curious to see how bad my short term memory is



I was going to give you instructions, but I forget how...


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## now disabled (Aug 20, 2018)

JR 137 said:


> I gave a copy to my wife too




Hmmmmmmmmmmmm I thought it was just women that suffered from short term memory loss lol.................ie when they kinda over use the old credit card as they just had to have the handbag lol........then forgot to ummmm mention that and you go to pay for gas and it gets declined lol.....been there done that lol......................I then did suffer short term memory loss when I raised the issue ...she kicked my *** and I was left dazed in a heep lol


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## hoshin1600 (Aug 20, 2018)

now disabled said:


> Hmmmmmmmmmmmm I thought it was just women that suffered from short term memory loss lol.................ie when they kinda over use the old credit card as they just had to have the handbag lol........then forgot to ummmm mention that and you go to pay for gas and it gets declined lol.....been there done that lol......................I then did suffer short term memory loss when I raised the issue ...she kicked my *** and I was left dazed in a heep lol


dont let her fool you.  she remembers every single time you forgot to take the trash out.


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## Deleted member 39746 (Aug 20, 2018)

At this point, you should just remake the post as most of the forum will know about your self defence experience.


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## oftheherd1 (Aug 21, 2018)

Xue Sheng said:


> I know, imagine my surprise when it turned out to be so lame. I was expecting we would all be given metal edged rulers...but NOOOOOOOOO. I mean I never went to a Catholic School, but I have heard all the stories from those that did
> 
> There was a move taught to show you how to get someone to stop pulling your hair..... *a couple slaps to the persons hand was all you needed.....*she did not like my lock their hand to my head, bend over, lock them and ride them to the wall routine at all....it might hurt the person who was just trying to hurt me...and we don't want to injure them you know...... she also seemed to be oblivious that there were rather large detox and mental health units in that hospital, many of whom were brought in by the police in cuffs...



I found it, I found it !!!!!!!

In the thread - What arts are incompatible with each other? in Post 89, there is a link to 



 where the double slap is shown about 1:47 or so.  It worked!  then the demonstrator grabbed his opponent's hand in mid-air (Isn't he good?) (!!!???) and applied a wrist lock into a throw.

Sir, how could you put down a nun who obviously had that technique down pat?  Well, minus the fact it would break knuckles, wrist, elbow/shoulder joints, and parts of the body slammed to the ground.  Actually I wonder if she found that same video on the i-net but didn't want anyone to get hurt when the wrist lock and throw were applied.  

That part of the displayed demo was I think was very sloppily underplayed as to what it was supposed to do.  In fact I am not positive.  But I think the idea was to break finger knuckles (since I have learned applications of that in Hapkido) and then move into a grab of the hand like you talked about (not in mid-air), and move into the wrist lock and throw.

So now I think I know what she thought she was talking about. 

Wow, how did you sit there without laughing uproariously or at least snickering loud enough for all to hear?  Your Gi must have been very strong that day.


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## Xue Sheng (Aug 21, 2018)

oftheherd1 said:


> I found it, I found it !!!!!!!
> 
> In the thread - What arts are incompatible with each other? in Post 89, there is a link to
> 
> ...



like I said...there was a lot of this that day...especially with the take down of 1 person, needing 5 people and one of them needed to have a pillow to protect the person being taken downs head












Note: should also add, that evening, after this wonderful training, I had a nasty belligerent combative guy come in the ER. He decided to charge at me.... and since there were not 4 others around, 1 of those with a pillow, I just redirected his force around me, bounced him off the wall, and took him to the ground. He then said this..."ok., ok...I'll go back to my room now and behave". My response was, "I already know that"


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## pdg (Aug 21, 2018)

Xue Sheng said:


> Note: should also add, that evening, after this wonderful training, I had a nasty belligerent combative guy come in the ER. He decided to charge at me.... and since there were not 4 others around, 1 of those with a pillow, I just redirected his force around me, bounced him off the wall, and took him to the ground. He then said this..."ok., ok...I'll go back to my room now and behave". My response was, "I already know that"



That's just pure luck that you weren't beaten or killed.


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## Xue Sheng (Aug 21, 2018)

pdg said:


> That's just pure luck that you weren't beaten or killed.



Yes, I felt lucky....mostly because he was not a bleeding, nasty, belligerent, combative guy...just nasty, belligerent, and  combative...oh and he as also a trained FBI killer...or at least that is what he told me...several times...just prior to his charge.


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## oftheherd1 (Aug 21, 2018)

Xue Sheng said:


> like I said...there was a lot of this that day...especially with the take down of 1 person, needing 5 people and one of them needed to have a pillow to protect the person being taken downs head
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Oh.  ....  Oh, you didn't mention the pillow before.    How lucky you weren't fired.


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## Xue Sheng (Aug 21, 2018)

oftheherd1 said:


> Oh.  ....  Oh, you didn't mention the pillow before.    How lucky you weren't fired.



Well, the pillow was not required, it was preferred. If the 5th person did not have a pillow available they could cradle the person head to protect it from impacting the floor...it was apparently ok if the person cradling the head had their knuckles smashed between the person head and the floor though...if the pillow was required...I'd have been out the door for sure....


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## oftheherd1 (Aug 21, 2018)

Xue Sheng said:


> Yes, I felt lucky....mostly because he was not a bleeding, nasty, belligerent, combative guy...just nasty, belligerent, and  combative...oh and he as also a trained FBI killer...or at least that is what he told me...several times...just prior to his charge.



Bleeding would be bad enough, but an FBI killer, trained at that?  Oh my!    Lucky he didn't have a pillow, eh?


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## oftheherd1 (Aug 21, 2018)

Xue Sheng said:


> Well, the pillow was not required, it was preferred. If the 5th person did not have a pillow available they could cradle the person head to protect it from impacting the floor...it was apparently ok if the person cradling the head had their knuckles smashed between the person head and the floor though...if the pillow was required...I'd have been out the door for sure....



I can just see the guy now, sitting in his room, pouting, thinking ...  "Next time I'll go to Radiology and I won't forget my pillow either."


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## Buka (Aug 21, 2018)

oftheherd1 said:


> I found it, I found it !!!!!!!
> 
> In the thread - What arts are incompatible with each other? in Post 89, there is a link to
> 
> ...



That dojo has a couch. That sucker is going to smell really bad in a little while. Unless it's one of them no sweat dojos.


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## oftheherd1 (Aug 21, 2018)

Buka said:


> That dojo has a couch. That sucker is going to smell really bad in a little while. Unless it's one of them no sweat dojos.



I heard it was only for the 12th Dans.  I think that is the senior one sitting there evaluating the 11th Dan finishing his test by teaching another 11th Dan how to fix one's hair without a comb.


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## Xue Sheng (Aug 21, 2018)

Another part of the training I went through, that did not endear me to the Nun giving the training. It was a reversal of a choke from behind that ending in an arm lock behind the attacker. That part was actually pretty solid, however what they did next was ridiculous. You were suppose to lightly push the attacker way.....it was then I heard myself say "If I have the attacker's arm like that...I'm riding that sucker to the wall".... That was not the way to go...I might hurt the person who was just trying to choke the life out of me.....

and for the rest of the class.....


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## drop bear (Aug 21, 2018)

Xue Sheng said:


> like I said...there was a lot of this that day...especially with the take down of 1 person, needing 5 people and one of them needed to have a pillow to protect the person being taken downs head
> 
> 
> 
> ...



If you are going to rely on the sort of training they give you.

" it is going to take five guys for that to work"

Is actually the best advice they could have given.

(You sneak up and garrote them with the pillow though. Right)


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## oftheherd1 (Aug 21, 2018)

Xue Sheng said:


> Another part of the training I went through, that did not endear me to the Nun giving the training. It was a reversal of a choke from behind that ending in an arm lock behind the attacker. That part was actually pretty solid, however what they did next was ridiculous. You were suppose to lightly push the attacker way.....it was then I heard myself say "If I have the attacker's arm like that...I'm riding that sucker to the wall".... That was not the way to go...I might hurt the person who was just trying to choke the life out of me.....
> 
> and for the rest of the class.....



That is just incredible.  I simply cannot cannot understand people who believe if they only show others the good way, the worst people in the world will be unable to act any other way.  They are apparently unable to look around at reality.  I just don't understand.     Where did your administrators find that person?


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## Xue Sheng (Aug 21, 2018)

oftheherd1 said:


> That is just incredible.  I simply cannot cannot understand people who believe if they only show others the good way, the worst people in the world will be unable to act any other way.  They are apparently unable to look around at reality.  I just don't understand.     Where did your administrators find that person?



It was a Catholic Hospital and it was one of the Nuns


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## oftheherd1 (Aug 22, 2018)

Xue Sheng said:


> It was a Catholic Hospital and it was one of the Nuns



Oh.  I guess that is understandable.  Perhaps if you tell her people like that should be considered recalcitrant students she might modify her response?


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