# $3 and Climbing



## MJS (Apr 25, 2006)

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12248278/from/RL.2/

I'm wondering if this is going to be the norm or if the prices will ever go down. Reading todays paper, it looks like Bush is ordering an investigation into price gouging, but I have to wonder if it'll do any good. 

Is anyone making any changes into the way they travel? I heard of one woman who pawned her jewelery that she had to help her and her husband with the rising cost of gas. Not sure I'd go to that extent, but I can see how this takes a toll on some people.


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## Lisa (Apr 25, 2006)

Gas here in Winnipeg is around $4.00/ US Gallon.  Scary.


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## terryl965 (Apr 25, 2006)

Here in Texas it is an average of 2.92 a gallon pretty damm bad if you ask me. It is time for the horse and buggy again.
Terry


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## mrhnau (Apr 25, 2006)

Easy fix... drop some of the gas taxes and relax the mixture requirements, at least for a little while until the oil problems stabalize. I doubt that will be seriously considered though... that would likely knock off a good 20-30 cents off the top, depending on where you are and what kind of mix is required...


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## Makalakumu (Apr 25, 2006)

Heh.  We think this is high?  Wait until the first bombs fall on Iran?  

Good God, I hope that doesn't happen.  

Seriously, tensions with Iran are a large part of this.  If those cool down, we can expect a possible temporary reduction.  

Overall, though, the prices will continue to go up.  Peak Oil is here!


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## Henderson (Apr 25, 2006)

Lisa said:
			
		

> Gas here in Winnipeg is around $4.00/ US Gallon. Scary.


 
Lisa....Is that $4.00 Canadian/U.S. gallon, or $4.00 USD/U.S. gallon?


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## Bob Hubbard (Apr 25, 2006)

During recent interviews with oil company execs they were asked some really hard questions that they had no answers to.

Like, since they are making record profits, do their still need the several billion dollars in continued government bail out money? - No answer

and, since they have all these billions in profits, shouldn't they maybe invest in new and upgraded refineries? - No Answer.

Of course, the new investigation will show no wrongdoing. After all, to do so would risk losing millions in campaign contributions to those investigating. Pity that we have so few real leaders amongst our so called 'leaders'.

Gas will hit $3.50 by end of summer.  Expect $5-6 if they attack Iran as planned. I've seen some estimates of gas hitting over the $20/gal mark depending on situations.

Thank god we're researching hydrogen fuel cells. In 30 years we'll be ok.  Never mind that bio-diesel is here, not, and can be produced for about 50 cents a gallon. Never mind that if lawmakers would require Detroit to raise fuel efficiency it can be easily done.


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## Andrew Green (Apr 25, 2006)

Henderson said:
			
		

> Lisa....Is that $4.00 Canadian/U.S. gallon, or $4.00 USD/U.S. gallon?



I get about $3.70 US after doing some converting.... litres to gallons and CDN to US.


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## Blindside (Apr 25, 2006)

Bob Hubbard said:
			
		

> Thank god we're researching hydrogen fuel cells. In 30 years we'll be ok. Never mind that bio-diesel is here, not, and can be produced for about 50 cents a gallon. Never mind that if lawmakers would require Detroit to raise fuel efficiency it can be easily done.


 
If gas hits $5 a gallon, it won't matter, Market forces will push detroit faster than a CAFE standard ever will.  Of course, it may just push them off a cliff as SUV and large truck sales goes through the floor, along with our economy.  Compacts will once again rule the road.


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## Ping898 (Apr 25, 2006)

Running between 3.01 and 3.09 per gallon around me.  It is definitelly hurting my wallet.  I have no choice but to drive though, no public transportation to take me to work and often times have to drive to other places for work...What are ya gonna do...:idunno:


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## beau_safken (Apr 25, 2006)

I don't know what the big deal is...I don't own a car anymore for just about that reason .  Ok had to take that shot.

Seriously, the cost of gas is gonna be a wake up call for all those people that feel that cruising/short trips/non-necessary/just because driving will change very quickly.  When the cost of gas hits 4 bucks..which I very much believe will happen in the next year at some point, not only will there be a major outcry for action but those lightbulbs of conservation will also.  I had a modified japanese car for the longest time and could still get 35 miles a gallon.  Some of the good ol' American rods are lucky to see 10 MPG...if they are lucky.  

The best and greatest solution would be to import the micro's, compact and economy cars from the EU over here.  Hell there are diesel Honda's that are getting 70+ miles per gallon now..non of that hybrid crap.  It's all about the money, and until the people realize nobody is gonna do a thing until business's start closing from lack of employee's being able to get to work, shoppers to shop and lack of supplies from trucks...We will wake up.


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## Blotan Hunka (Apr 25, 2006)

The Oil companies are manipulating supply and demand to maximize profit. Scream all we want, we are still buying, so they dont give a ****. It has nothing to do with the ammount of oil in the ground or in the system....


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## mrhnau (Apr 25, 2006)

Blotan Hunka said:
			
		

> The Oil companies are manipulating supply and demand to maximize profit. Scream all we want, we are still buying, so they dont give a ****. It has nothing to do with the ammount of oil in the ground or in the system....



Manipulating supply? tell that to OPEC  Tell that to the refineries that were running at full capacity before Katrina and are no longer at full capacity...

when oil prices go up, gas prices go up, as do profits... you work in a margin based on the price of oil. as price goes up, so do profits. I'm not suprised they are making record profits. Oil prices go down, so will their profits.


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## Kreth (Apr 25, 2006)

I don't know what everyone's complaining about. It's only a matter of time now before society collapses into anarchy, and we'll be free to roam the countryside in our souped-up cars, killing for a few gallons of gas.


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## beau_safken (Apr 25, 2006)

Lol, Alla mad max.  ON TO THE THUNDERDOME!!!!


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## Mcura (Apr 25, 2006)

And soon, we'll be farming pigs for methane ("Methane cometh from pig-****"). And we'll be branding criminals for killing said pigs for food. Change the name of my city to Bartertown, and replace the Mayor with Tina Turner.


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## Kreth (Apr 25, 2006)

Yep, soon I'll be leaving a trail of slain enemies and empty gas tanks across the country. People will shudder at the mention of my Great and Terrible Honda Civic. Of Death. Rawr.


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## Swordlady (Apr 25, 2006)

I'm really hating the gas prices right about now.  I drive all over the city most every day for my job (I'm a social worker), doing home and school visits.  I usually have to gas up my car at least once a week - sometimes every five days.  At $3/gallon (this is for the CHEAP 87 octane!), it costs me about $38 to fill up the tank.  That's about $150/month on gas alone.  Ouch.

<rant>Fine time for my agency to cut down the expense mileage from $0.48/mile to $0.445/mile.  They better give us an increase for mileage if the gas prices continue to rise.</rant>


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## michaeledward (Apr 25, 2006)

mrhnau said:
			
		

> Manipulating supply? tell that to OPEC  Tell that to the refineries that were running at full capacity before Katrina and are no longer at full capacity...
> 
> when oil prices go up, gas prices go up, as do profits... you work in a margin based on the price of oil. as price goes up, so do profits. I'm not suprised they are making record profits. Oil prices go down, so will their profits.


 
America is indeed facing an energy crunch. For much of the year, gas prices have soared and supply has trailed demand. 

The oil industry and its allies would have the public believe that insufficient refining capacity, restrictive environmental standards, growing gasoline demand and OPEC production cutbacks are the primary reasons for the current oil and gas supply problem.

However, the record shows ... that there is more to the story. Specifically, documentes suggest that major oil companies pursued efforts to curtail refinery capacity as a strategy for imporving profit margins; that compete oil companies worked together to subvert supply; that refinery closures inhibited supply; and that oil companies are reaping record profits, yet may benefit from a proposed national energy policy that owuld offer financial incentives to expand refinery capacity.


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## Makalakumu (Apr 25, 2006)

Kreth said:
			
		

> I don't know what everyone's complaining about. It's only a matter of time now before society collapses into anarchy, and we'll be free to roam the countryside in our souped-up cars, killing for a few gallons of gas.


 
"Two Men enter, one Man leaves!"
"Two Men enter, one Man leaves!"
"Two Men enter, one Man leaves!"


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## Makalakumu (Apr 25, 2006)

michaeledward said:
			
		

> America is indeed facing an energy crunch. For much of the year, gas prices have soared and supply has trailed demand.
> 
> The oil industry and its allies would have the public believe that insufficient refining capacity, restrictive environmental standards, growing gasoline demand and OPEC production cutbacks are the primary reasons for the current oil and gas supply problem.
> 
> However, the record shows ... that there is more to the story. Specifically, documentes suggest that major oil companies pursued efforts to curtail refinery capacity as a strategy for imporving profit margins; that compete oil companies worked together to subvert supply; that refinery closures inhibited supply; and that oil companies are reaping record profits, yet may benefit from a proposed national energy policy that owuld offer financial incentives to expand refinery capacity.


 
I don't know if this is a purposeful manipulation or not, but I do know that the science shows that we are on the beginning of a permanent energy crunch.  The worlds total production has risen to as high as it will ever get and will begin falling...and this will happen despite an increase in demand by the world.


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## michaeledward (Apr 25, 2006)

Did you hear, Brazil is about to become energy independent. 

Brazil uses approximately 2 million barrels of oil a day. With the opening of their lastest drilling facility, Brazil is going to be able to extract and produce 2 million barrels of oil a day.

Certainly, that is not going to work forever, but they are not going to rely on imports for their fuel needs.


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## Blindside (Apr 25, 2006)

upnorthkyosa said:
			
		

> I don't know if this is a purposeful manipulation or not, but I do know that the science shows that we are on the beginning of a permanent energy crunch. The worlds total production has risen to as high as it will ever get and will begin falling...and this will happen despite an increase in demand by the world.


 
There are other oil supplies out there that aren't near full utilization, a strong example is:
http://www.energy.gov.ab.ca/89.asp

But, as an enironmentalist the idea of strip-mining Alberta for oil is pretty repugnant to me.

Lamont


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## Gemini (Apr 25, 2006)

If my aged mind serves, in 1972 when the first crunch hit, gas was .55/gallon. When I got my license in 1974, gas was about $1.20/gallon  . Yet, in over 30 years it hasn't increased at the same rate as anything else I can think of. Cars, housing, milk, beef, haircuts, salaries...nothing. I don't think it's so much that its risen, as that it hasn't risen at the same steady rate as enything else over the same period of time. To Bob's point, the fact that the reasons <excuses> are based more in speculation than justification doesn't help either. I do believe however, that this too will become an non-issue as the situation stabalizes, but I doubt we'll ever see prices where they were. I'll just need to put my beautiful 400 hp Stang in a museum somewhere. Pretty soon, driving it will be about as popular as walking around in genuine fur.


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## tshadowchaser (Apr 25, 2006)

I am starting to feel old.  I used to fill up my fathers buick fo$2.50 bak when I started driving. Now I can't even nuy a gallon of gas for that amount.
I think (personalu)that if we are in that big off a pronlem getting oil to make gas then the gas companies should not be makeing many billions of dollars profit each year. I know that they musst procs the crude and the want a small profit but I think most of the world is getting ripped off
check out the gas prices in other countries around the wols and you will se prices from 20 cents a gallon to 5 dollars a gallon


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## Bob Hubbard (Apr 25, 2006)

Theres a solid reason for Brazil's success.  They are running on dual-use vehicles, and have a very successful bio-fuel program in that country.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4581955.stm



> A new generation of alcohol-powered cars entered production in Brazil in 2003, after the government decided that cars capable of burning ethanol should be taxed at 14%, instead of 16% for their exclusively petrol-powered counterparts.
> 
> Unlike earlier models, these are "flex-fuel" cars - equally happy with pure alcohol, pure petrol, or any blend of the two.
> 
> ...



But, don't worry.  In 20-30 years we'll have fuel cells here in the US, and everything will be ok again.

I like bio-diesel. Use old McD fryer grease, costs 53 cents a gallon, get 70mpg, and your exhaust smells like french fries. 
You can even make it at home.


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## Henderson (Apr 25, 2006)

Bob Hubbard said:
			
		

> I like bio-diesel. Use old McD fryer grease, costs 53 cents a gallon, get 70mpg, and your exhaust smells like french fries.
> You can even make it at home.


 
http://www.biodiesel.org/


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## michaeledward (Apr 25, 2006)

michaeledward said:
			
		

> America is indeed facing an energy crunch. For much of the year, gas prices have soared and supply has trailed demand.
> 
> The oil industry and its allies would have the public believe that insufficient refining capacity, restrictive environmental standards, growing gasoline demand and OPEC production cutbacks are the primary reasons for the current oil and gas supply problem.
> 
> However, the record shows ... that there is more to the story. Specifically, documentes suggest that major oil companies pursued efforts to curtail refinery capacity as a strategy for imporving profit margins; that compete oil companies worked together to subvert supply; that refinery closures inhibited supply; and that oil companies are reaping record profits, yet may benefit from a proposed national energy policy that owuld offer financial incentives to expand refinery capacity.


 

Well, I guess I should source this ... because these words aren't actually mine. They can be found in this 2001 report. 

http://wyden.senate.gov/leg_issues/reports/wyden_oil_report.pdf

Some interesting facts ... 



> According to Energy Information Administration, the following refineries were shut
> down between 1995 and 2001:​*Year Refinery Location​*1995
> Indian Refining................. Lawrenceville, IL
> Cyril Petrochemical Corp..... Cyril, OK
> ...




Listen carefully to the arguments now, and there is a call for more exploration by corporate flunkies. 

So, the decreased refining capacity to jack up margins. Successful.
Now they are using the higher prices brought about by limited capacity to demand exploration. 

And Herr Bush buys it, and writes it into law. It's good to take care of your friends. ​


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## Gemini (Apr 25, 2006)

Does the report also state how many new refineries have been opened during that same span of years? Just curious.


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## FearlessFreep (Apr 25, 2006)

I'm curious how refinary closuers in 1995 made the gas prices suddenly increase over the last few months?

I think to gain any sort of correlation you would need to know how many gallons of capacity were available at a given time, how much (or how much percentage) was lost due to those closures, and how much capacity there is today.  Other than that I sorta have a hard time seeing how closures in 1995 and 1997 were part of a plot to drive up prices today, especially since the price spikes seem to be more closely correlated in time to specific events that are much harder to orchestrate (Katrina,the war in Iraq, and Iran threatening to develop nuclear weapons)


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## Bob Hubbard (Apr 25, 2006)

I don't believe there have been any new refineries built in the last 20 years.

Also, the closure in 95 doesn't have an immediate impact today, until you look at the damages done during last years hurricanes, and todays increased demand.  Crude is backed up on the docks.


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## TigerWoman (Apr 25, 2006)

Here in Minnesota it is 2.80 a gal.  Sounds like we are getting a deal. After filling up the tank last night in my suv, it was 48.  Made me think on the way to my dog obedience class 50 miles away today, that maybe I should carpool now with another woman and her mountain dog.  It took a third of a tank so 16+9 for the class= 25. a week and this is ongoing through six sessions of eight weeks (if my dog is good at it).  $200 a session as opposed to the people living there paying just 70. Kind of like out-of-state tuition.

And I suppose I should pay for TKD classes now too that my kickboxing classes went under, maybe I should bike there this summer to save gas. Well, our winters were reallll mild this year.  Only had enough snow to shovel in March and the the bills which were threatened to be 150%-200% were about normal.  So what happened to all the gas we saved with the mild winter?  I know my Mom had it mild in Nebraska as well and I gave her extra for her heat this year.  I think there is definitely gas company gouging now from gasoline prices or maybe their execs can take a little less for salary.  TW


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## FearlessFreep (Apr 25, 2006)

_Also, the closure in 95 doesn't have an immediate impact today, until you look at the damages done during last years hurricanes, and todays increased demand. Crude is backed up on the docks._

There's a big difference between "capacity was cut because of lack of need, until a natural disaster wiped out a lot of what capacity we had left...oops" and "capacity was cut intentionally to drive up cost, those scoundrels"


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## Bob Hubbard (Apr 25, 2006)

Demand has been going up for years, we've just hit critical with everything now.


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## michaeledward (Apr 25, 2006)

The closures of the refineries were designed to constrict capacity. Once capacity is constrained, margins can increase. Throw in a few weeks of rolling blackouts in the 7th largest economy in the world (California 2001) to prove a point, and you can increase margins. And profits go up. 

The immediate excuses are the change over from winter heating oil to gasoline. This change over always creates tight supplies in late March / early April as the refineries make the processing switch. Summertime driving always increases demand for gasoline. 

Also, the uncertainty about Iran is being used as an excuse to keep prices up. 

Listen carefully to the oil companies paid for congresspersons ... they are all crying for increased exploration. As if we were somehow going to be able to drill ourselves to energy independence. 

The one thing we can be confident in, is that Saudi Arabia is going to open their spiggots before the first Tuesday after the first Monday in November. Three bucks a gallon spells a Democratic Congress and Articles of Impeachment. House of Bush - House of Saud is not going to let that happen.


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## Gemini (Apr 25, 2006)

Bob Hubbard said:
			
		

> I don't believe there have been any new refineries built in the last 20 years.


I did a quick check and you're close. Appears none have been opened since the late 70's in the US. Hmm. Wonder why if demand has been on the rise for so long (which I would agree with that statement) then why has the rest of the world been opening them (found several) and we have not?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that we haven't seen any expected relief from Iraq because though Iraq has huge crude resources, it doesn't have the capacity (or need) to refine so much crude. Input?


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## Bob Hubbard (Apr 25, 2006)

Even if Iraq was 100% online, it wouldn't really dent our problem as we don't get much oil from there, and theres a backlog waiting to be refined as is.


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## michaeledward (Apr 25, 2006)

Gemini said:
			
		

> I did a quick check and you're close. Appears none have been opened since the late 70's in the US. Hmm. Wonder why if demand has been on the rise for so long (which I would agree with that statement) then why has the rest of the world been opening them (found several) and we have not?
> Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that we haven't seen any expected relief from Iraq because though Iraq has huge crude resources, it doesn't have the capacity (or need) to refine so much crude. Input?


 
Some from the industry will argue that no new refineries have been opened because of environmental regulations make it burdensomely difficult. This argument does not address why refineries are being closed.

We were led to believe that Iraq oil reserves would be sufficient to pay for the Iraqi reconstruction, relieving the American Taxpayers of the trillion dollar investment we have been committed too. Additionally, the friendly government of Iraq was supposed to make supplies available to the United States. And, as we all know, ample supply keeps prices low.

Currently, Iraq's oil output (not refining capacity, just getting the oil out of the ground) is below pre-invasion levels. 

Kind of amazing to me, if you hit the ground in Iraq with a hammer, oil pours out, but we can't seem to get any onto a tanker headed this way.


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## Rich Parsons (Apr 25, 2006)

Look into E85 Gasoline

Like Bob stated those with Ethanol.

The problem with Ethanol is that it is about 30 to 35 % less efficient then Gasoline of the same volume. 

So, for it to be cost effective it would have to be about 33% less of the cost of Gasoline. Back a few months ago when Gas dropped down to $2.39 a gallon the two E85 (* yes there are only two at the moment *) had E85 at $2.29 a gallon. This is not cost effective for the driver will see a drastic change in the miles per gallon on E85.

It is even possible to see the change in mile per gallon on the E15 which is the standard Ethanol Additive in Gasoline used to add "Oxygen" to make it "Burn" cleaner. In reality what you get is a less effiecient reaction for the same price as a gallon of gas that does not have E15.

Now, is E85 much more renewable? YES IT IS!

Is E85 capable of being mass produced and distributed with todays infrastructure? YES IT IS, with some minor changes to handle the alcohol content. 

Why not go with E100? Because the governement is concerned that people will drink it. So, some Gasoline is added for better reaction as it acts like a catalyst. 

Are all cars capable of using E85? NO!

Even if the car runs or could run on E85, and sometimes this happens with E15, the hoses and other parts get brittle and are more likely to break or malfunction becuase of the rection with the alcohol. 

Can my car be updated to support this? Most can, but it may cost you some money for injectors and fuel rails. 

Most large size or Full size trucks support the E85 from GM/Ford/Chrysler. These are the newer models. The older models have the same issues as I mentioned above. 

On the good side GM has agreed to work with Miejers here in Michigan to build 85 gas stations to carry and dispurse the E85 fuel. 

The biggest thing to remember about the E85 is that your MPG wil go down and your distance travelled per tank will be less. Expect this, and be willing to work with this.


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## donna (Apr 25, 2006)

Our fuel prices here just hit $1.40 / litre Aus. So if you do the conversion math that is over $4 US / gallon.


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## BrandiJo (Apr 25, 2006)

i cant aford gas as it is let alone if it goes up...im riding my bike and walking any where possible.... will the prices ever go back down?


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## MJS (Apr 25, 2006)

upnorthkyosa said:
			
		

> Heh. We think this is high? Wait until the first bombs fall on Iran?
> 
> Good God, I hope that doesn't happen.


 
Well, given our record for telling other countries what to do, I'm sure it'll only be a matter of time before we bomb them.

Mike


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## MJS (Apr 25, 2006)

Swordlady said:
			
		

> At $3/gallon (this is for the CHEAP 87 octane!), it costs me about $38 to fill up the tank. That's about $150/month on gas alone. Ouch.


 
Yup, I hear ya.  My wife and I each have an SUV and with gas a little over $3, I spent $35 on hers the other day.  

Mike


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## Hand Sword (Apr 26, 2006)

It's almost time for public transportation!


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## beau_safken (Apr 26, 2006)

If you adjust for currency and liter/gallon conversion, gas in Spain is 6 dollars a gallon.  Then again, you have to take a driving school to get a license in Spain and driving is a privilege not a requirement.  We will see a lot less people driving soon enough...


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## fireman00 (Apr 26, 2006)

mrhnau said:
			
		

> Easy fix... drop some of the gas taxes and relax the mixture requirements, at least for a little while until the oil problems stabalize. I doubt that will be seriously considered though... that would likely knock off a good 20-30 cents off the top, depending on where you are and what kind of mix is required...


 
The issue about taxes is that each state adds their own taxes - NJ has one of the lowest rates and NY (.40 a gallon higher) has one of the highest tax rates.

Problem right now is that there is a shortage of E-10 (gas blended with ethanol instead of MTBE) due to the fact that: A.) it can't be produced fast enough, B.) there is no pipeline distribution for ethanol - it has to be moved via truck or train, and C.) ethanol becomes corrosive when its comes in contact with moisture so anything that will be used to store E-10 must be cleaned.   

Hopefully in the next month the supply of ethanol and E-10 will increase to meet demand and the prices go down.


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## HKphooey (Apr 26, 2006)

Take a look at how much you paid for some common liquids in the past week.  Snapple, OJ, Coke, Beer, Milk - all of which we do not need (alright, maybe the beer  ).  There is a website out there that compares a bunch of liquids and products to gas.  The process to make gas is much more resource consuming than any of the above.  

We live in a capitalistic society.  I agree it sucks to pay that much (and agree with many of the comments), but it is a fact of life.  Why should the governement be able to stop oil companies from making money, but then let the clothing industry mark up goods over 300% because they used child labor in another country. 

Easy fix to all this... buy a hybrid or car pool and hit the oil companies where it hurts. 

Better yert...vote for the opposite party you voted for last election and see how much things change.  They may get a little better, but someones pocket will always get lined.

As long as my gas does not exceed my pint of Guiness - I am happy!  

Another set of ideas (an I am not a tree hugger, though I like trees)
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2006/01/book_review_bea.php


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## HKphooey (Apr 26, 2006)

Just found some comparisons (in 2005):

Items	 	 	 	$/gallon

Gasoline	 	 	 	$2.51
Milk	 	 	 	$2.99
Coca-Cola	 	 	 	$2.84
Gatorade	 	 	 	$5.20
Evian Water	 	 	$5.60
Orange Juice	 	 	$6.64
Crisco Oil	 	 	             $7.44
Perrier Water	 	              $8.16
Snapple	 	 	 	$10.32
Scope Mouthwash	 	 	$27.20
Lemon Oil	 	 	 	$27.22
Olive Oil	 	 	 	$51.04
Shampoo	 	 	 	$40.44
Real Maple Syrup	 	 	$57.08
Jack Daniel's Bourbon	 	$101.12
Visine Eye Drops	 	 	$995.84
Nasacort Nasal Spray	 	$2,615.28


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## CTKempo Todd (Apr 26, 2006)

MJS said:
			
		

> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12248278/from/RL.2/
> 
> I'm wondering if this is going to be the norm or if the prices will ever go down. Reading todays paper, it looks like Bush is ordering an investigation into price gouging, but I have to wonder if it'll do any good.
> 
> Is anyone making any changes into the way they travel? I heard of one woman who pawned her jewelery that she had to help her and her husband with the rising cost of gas. Not sure I'd go to that extent, but I can see how this takes a toll on some people.


 

It seems like every time the gas prices go up...all the damm politicians want to do is 'study' if there was price gouging...Let's NOT DO ANYTHING ABOUT THE PROBLEM...LET'S JUST STUDY IT!..Morons!!

Anyways. Do what I do..Ride a motorcycle to work...40 - 50 + Mpg plus it does wonders for your mind..


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## terryl965 (Apr 26, 2006)

Well it is here $3.00 a gallon in the Dallas Ft Worth area, today is April 26th 2006 and I would have beat a million dollars twenty years ago that would never had happen.
Terry


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## Monadnock (Apr 26, 2006)

Another viewpoint 



> *IT'S HARD OUT THERE FOR A PUMP
> 
> by Ann Coulter - 4/26/2006
> 
> ...



FULL ARTICLE


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## Hand Sword (Apr 27, 2006)

I love a strong woman! She definitely has alot of Moxy! I'll give her that.


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## Flatlander (Apr 27, 2006)

There isn't any real merit in pointing fingers at the Democrats for the price of fuel.  This isn't a political issue, for starters, it's a market issue.  Secondly, the Americans have no leverage with regard to changing the situation anyway.  Sure, building more refineries would help, but not for a while, and it's not really a governmental role anyway.  At least, not in the US.  Building refineries is the role of business.

That's really part of the problem here - refining capacity is just enough to keep up with what the market is demanding right now, but finished gasoline reserves are depleting, and, with no further refining capacity, the price of finished gas is going up - ahead of the looming shortage.  It's interesting to note that, at times that the price of crude has stayed flat, or even gone down slightly over the period of a month, the price at the pump has still gone up.  Though the price at the pump is somewhat a reflection of the price of crude, it is more directly a result of the supply of finished gas.  

So, oil companies don't really feel the impetus to build refineries, because they're the ones profiting off of the rising price of gas - some other well capitalized company needs to decide to get into the refining business.


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## MJS (Apr 27, 2006)

Well, one thing for sure, I'm not into politics, so when it comes to that, I usually stay out of it.  I do think though, that if we didn't constantly jump into wars with people, half the problem would be solved.  I can just imagine what'll happen if we start dropping bombs on Iran.


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## Kreth (Apr 27, 2006)

MJS said:
			
		

> I can just imagine what'll happen if we start dropping bombs on Iran.


Lots of loud booms? :idunno:


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## MJS (Apr 27, 2006)

Kreth said:
			
		

> Lots of loud booms? :idunno:


 
Yes, most likely.

:xwing: :apv: :tank: :biggun:


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## bydand (Apr 27, 2006)

CTKempo Todd said:
			
		

> Anyways. Do what I do..Ride a motorcycle to work...40 - 50 + Mpg plus it does wonders for your mind..



Or drive what I do back and forth to the job sites.......A real man's man of a vehicle,  a 1993 Geo Merto Convertable.  LOL!!  Yeah I know it is a "girl" car but I have the advantage of being a 6'2" 225# construction worker who practices MA's.  Seems everybody thinks it is a viable alternative to the pick-up truck they drive. It averages 43 MPG driving around, haven't worked up the nerve to get the little POS out on the freeway (plus the freeway is 50 miles away).  The way I look at it is this:  I'm 42, little overweight, happily married, & comfortable in my own skin; what am I trying to do impress some 18 or 20 year old?  Nope just going to work! 

Gas is now at $3.11 for regular here in Northern Maine.  My bet is they suck $4.00 out of our pocket per gallon before too long.  That teal bomber looks real good sitting in the driveway!


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## Rich Parsons (Apr 27, 2006)

bydand said:
			
		

> Or drive what I do back and forth to the job sites.......A real man's man of a vehicle, a 1993 Geo Merto Convertable. LOL!! Yeah I know it is a "girl" car but I have the advantage of being a 6'2" 225# construction worker who practices MA's. Seems everybody thinks it is a viable alternative to the pick-up truck they drive. It averages 43 MPG driving around, haven't worked up the nerve to get the little POS out on the freeway (plus the freeway is 50 miles away). The way I look at it is this: I'm 42, little overweight, happily married, & comfortable in my own skin; what am I trying to do impress some 18 or 20 year old? Nope just going to work!
> 
> Gas is now at $3.11 for regular here in Northern Maine. My bet is they suck $4.00 out of our pocket per gallon before too long. That teal bomber looks real good sitting in the driveway!



Dude is yours Powder Blue? I have a friend he had one of these for ever, and only recently sold it for $100 as the frame was coming apart. He told the guy it would only be good for some of the parts, but that it ran well enough to drive it to the location to take it apart.


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## bydand (Apr 27, 2006)

Nope not Powder blue, it is a Teal color.  Or so I'm told by the better-half.  To me it just looks as if they couldn't decide between an ugly green or an ugly blue, so they mixed the two.  Looks as if I have to learn how to spell also, Merto?? try Metro!


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## Blindside (Apr 27, 2006)

funny little article:
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2002955908_milbankgas27.html


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## HKphooey (Apr 27, 2006)

Blindside said:
			
		

> funny little article:
> http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2002955908_milbankgas27.html


 
That's classic politician!  Thanks for sharing.


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## bydand (Apr 27, 2006)

No, classic politician would be to complain about the prices while filling up their gas-hogs and putting it on their expense account for their constituants to pay for.  That, by the way, wouldn't suprise me in the least.


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## beau_safken (Apr 27, 2006)

Yep Sounds about right.  Our mayor here in San Fran is rolling around in a fleet of Escalades...Who said San Fran cared about the environment?


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## Blindside (Apr 27, 2006)

Personally, I thought it was cool that someone was driving a VW "Thing."  I always wanted one of those....


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## CTKempo Todd (Apr 28, 2006)

bydand said:
			
		

> Or drive what I do back and forth to the job sites.......A real man's man of a vehicle, a 1993 Geo Merto Convertable. LOL!! Yeah I know it is a "girl" car but I have the advantage of being a 6'2" 225# construction worker who practices MA's. Seems everybody thinks it is a viable alternative to the pick-up truck they drive. It averages 43 MPG driving around, haven't worked up the nerve to get the little POS out on the freeway (plus the freeway is 50 miles away). The way I look at it is this: I'm 42, little overweight, happily married, & comfortable in my own skin; what am I trying to do impress some 18 or 20 year old? Nope just going to work!
> 
> Gas is now at $3.11 for regular here in Northern Maine. My bet is they suck $4.00 out of our pocket per gallon before too long. That teal bomber looks real good sitting in the driveway!


 
Scott..I'm with you..
Depending on the season and weather..you'll either find me on my Honda ST1300 (motorcycle) 0 - 60mph in a little over 3 seconds..or my 1997 Toyota Corolla..0 - 60 in 3 minutes

A couple of years ago I got rid of my big V8 truck for a 4 cyl Camry (great car) when I thought gas prices were getting crazy (1.60/gallon!)..

Folks this is about the market...We drive these big friggin vehicles for the simple task of getting us back and forth to work..(most of us anyway)..and we do it sucking up 12-16 mpg..Is this really necessary?? Me think not. We have no one to blame but ourselves. Yes I get pissed at the oil companies but then I look at it objectively and my fingers usually begins to point in a different direction.


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## bydand (Apr 28, 2006)

CTKempo Todd said:
			
		

> Folks this is about the market...We drive these big friggin vehicles for the simple task of getting us back and forth to work..(most of us anyway)..and we do it sucking up 12-16 mpg..Is this really necessary?? Me think not. We have no one to blame but ourselves. Yes I get pissed at the oil companies but then I look at it objectively and my fingers usually begins to point in a different direction.



I agree totally.  For going back and forth to the job sites I drive the little Metro, to get the required equipment, tools, and supplies to the sites in the first place I have to take the big 1 ton dually box truck.  After it is all there though, there is NO way I am going to keep driving something that on a GOOD day gets 10 MPG. No purpose in it at all.  If I could drive the Metro all the time I would, but it is a bit hard to fit 100,000 feet of wire, ladders, wire racks, fittings, etc... in something that has just enough room for me and a can of Pepsi.  Even if you could manage it somehow, that would look so "Jethro Bodine" there wouldn't ever be a return customer.  So while I try to do my best 95% of the time, the other 5% I am forced to drive a big gas-guzzeling hog.  Everything has its intended purpose.


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## Kacey (Apr 28, 2006)

People who drive large vehicles because they need to transport large, bulky, and/or heavy objects do not bother me - it's the people who drive large vehicles because they see them as a status symbol.  

My mother, for example, who never carries anything bigger than bags of groceries, bought a Pathfinder solely because my aunt has one... the differences being that a) my aunt does a lot of charity work and actually needs a large vehicle to pick up donations in, b) she lives in a place where the weather makes an SUV a reasonable choice because of snow (Detroit) and my mother doesn't (Dallas), and c) my mother bought a Pathfinder to keep up with my aunt, not because she really has any use for an SUV.

Myself, I drive a 1994 Nissan Sentra, which still regularly gets 30+ mpg, and averages at least 28 (hey, it's 12 years old, after all).


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## hardheadjarhead (Apr 28, 2006)

"Ah, but gas is still cheaper than milk!"

Yes...but we don't buy ten to twenty gallons of milk in one shot.

"Well, the increase must be due to increased demand!"

Makes sense...until we see Exxon giving their CEO a $400 million retirement package this month (equal to $144,000 for each day he worked there), or the oil industry's record profits.  

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=1841989

They're charging us this because they know we'll pay it.  They've seen us driving SUV's.  They knew we'd pay extra to fuel these beasts.

This is going to impact everything.  The truckers that haul your beer to the grocery are going to start charging more to cover their costs...and you'll help pay the difference.  Wal-Mart is allready reporting a drop in revenues due to increased oil prices.  

The price of a plane ticket to your brother's wedding is going to skyrocket.  Your tax dollars pay for the gas in the police cruiser and that bus your kid takes to school...and those dollars pay for the gas in the M1 Abrams tank rolling through Ramadi and the Harrier jet flying support above him.

Screw it all...I'm getting a bike.  It'll be good cardio, at least.


Regards,


Steve


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## Makalakumu (Apr 29, 2006)

hardheadjarhead said:
			
		

> Wal-Mart is allready reporting a drop in revenues due to increased oil prices.


 
High energy costs will eventually put all big box chains out of business.  These large, centralized, distribution centers depend on transportation in two ways.  They need to get people to the store and they need to import all of their cheap goods from 10,000 miles away.  Wal-mart destroys every local businesses within 20 to 30 miles in some places.  Those will be the first places that small ma and pa stores that deal in local goods will begin to _outcompete_ Wal-mart.


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## TigerWoman (Apr 29, 2006)

Kacey said:
			
		

> People who drive large vehicles because they need to transport large, bulky, and/or heavy objects do not bother me - it's the people who drive large vehicles because they see them as a status symbol.
> 
> My mother, for example, who never carries anything bigger than bags of groceries, bought a Pathfinder solely because my aunt has one... the differences being that a) my aunt does a lot of charity work and actually needs a large vehicle to pick up donations in, b) she lives in a place where the weather makes an SUV a reasonable choice because of snow (Detroit) and my mother doesn't (Dallas), and c) my mother bought a Pathfinder to keep up with my aunt, not because she really has any use for an SUV.
> 
> Myself, I drive a 1994 Nissan Sentra, which still regularly gets 30+ mpg, and averages at least 28 (hey, it's 12 years old, after all).



Well, a Pathfinder isn't exactly a big SUV, nor is it a status symbol. Least not around here. I have one because it is great to transport all kinds of stuff as the seats go down in the back. It also has 4 wheel drive for all the icy days we have.  And it beats my son's Honda for safety when he has an hour drive on a two way highway in the winter.  No mileage is not that great but dependability is. I LOVE my Pathfinder and it is nine years old.   TW


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## Kacey (Apr 29, 2006)

TigerWoman said:
			
		

> Well, a Pathfinder isn't exactly a big SUV, nor is it a status symbol. Least not around here. I have one because it is great to transport all kinds of stuff as the seats go down in the back. It also has 4 wheel drive for all the icy days we have.  And it beats my son's Honda for safety when he has an hour drive on a two way highway in the winter.  No mileage is not that great but dependability is. I LOVE my Pathfinder and it is nine years old.   TW



I understand all that - but I'm 40, and I'm my mother's youngest child... and as I said, she lives in Dallas, so weather's not really a problem often enough to need an SUV.  I know she bought it because my aunt has one because she said so.


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