# Problems with "Bloodsport"



## shaolinchi

Hey all, I was just wondering if anyone but me found WAY too many similarities between Enter the Dragon and Bloodsport?  I mean, Bruce Lee himself made up that trick where he would take the coin out of someone else's hand and replace it with a new one before the other guy can close his fist.  Although that wasn't in Enter the Dragon, he's still noted for it.  Also, the whole tournament thing, where they fight till the other person gives up.  I dunno, maybe i'm looking too far into or whatnot, and maybe it was brought up before, but Bloodsport imo is a rip off of Enter the Dragon.  And no offense to Jean Claude, but honestly quit trying to be Bruce, it'll never happen...


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## Rob Broad

shaolinchi said:
			
		

> Hey all, I was just wondering if anyone but me found WAY too many similarities between Enter the Dragon and Bloodsport?  I mean, Bruce Lee himself made up that trick where he would take the coin out of someone else's hand and replace it with a new one before the other guy can close his fist.  Although that wasn't in Enter the Dragon, he's still noted for it.  Also, the whole tournament thing, where they fight till the other person gives up.  I dunno, maybe i'm looking too far into or whatnot, and maybe it was brought up before, but Bloodsport imo is a rip off of Enter the Dragon.  And no offense to Jean Claude, but honestly quit trying to be Bruce, it'll never happen...




The 80's ended along time ago and I think that is when the debate about the similarities happened.


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## Mark Weiser

From my understanding BLOODSPORT was based on the real encounters of the character Van Damn played in the Kumite. While ENTER THE DRAGON was fictional.


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## Han-Mi

Besides, nothing an actor does in a martial arts movie is original. It has been thought up by someone else and is probably credited to someone else, otherwise, it wou;dn't be in the movie. The actors don't write the scripts, they just act them out. Jean claude was just doin his job.


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## Marginal

shaolinchi said:
			
		

> Hey all, I was just wondering if anyone but me found WAY too many similarities between Enter the Dragon and Bloodsport?



Not really. Both feature fighting in a tournament, but that's about where the comparisons end. If you want to watch Enter the Dragon: Plagarized Edition sometime though, just go rent Mortal Kombat. Compare the lines each character speaks right up to the point the tournament begins etc.


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## Andrew Green

Mark Weiser said:
			
		

> From my understanding BLOODSPORT was based on the real encounters of the character Van Damn played in the Kumite. While ENTER THE DRAGON was fictional.


You mean the real FICTIONAL accounts of the character


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## shaolinchi

thank you Andrew Green!  thats what i am talking about.  nothing is proven about this guy.  so how do we know that they didn't copy it from Enter The Dragon?!


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## Shogun

Yeah, well the character Jean claude played is a very controversial one. for more info, ask about him, or search on the ninjutsu forum.


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## bignick

if you want a rip-off of a bruce lee movie...

play the nes game Kung Fu..it 's almost exact copy of the movie Game of Death...

features 5 different levels each guarded by a martial artist from a specific art...

some of them are:

stick fighter(the escrima/kali guy)
giant(a huge black guy-- Kareem Abdul-Jabar?)
and the final boss is the master of the formless form (i.e. can do everything your character does...)

still a good game...play it to this day


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## Enson

yeah just do a search for dux and you will find more info than you can read.

peace


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## Touch Of Death

shaolinchi said:
			
		

> Hey all, I was just wondering if anyone but me found WAY too many similarities between Enter the Dragon and Bloodsport?  I mean, Bruce Lee himself made up that trick where he would take the coin out of someone else's hand and replace it with a new one before the other guy can close his fist.  Although that wasn't in Enter the Dragon, he's still noted for it.  Also, the whole tournament thing, where they fight till the other person gives up.  I dunno, maybe i'm looking too far into or whatnot, and maybe it was brought up before, but Bloodsport imo is a rip off of Enter the Dragon.  And no offense to Jean Claude, but honestly quit trying to be Bruce, it'll never happen...


Bruce Lee did not invent this type of story. Why aren't you harping on his borrowings?
Sean


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## Chicago Green Dragon

Here is something interesting you guys might like to read about the real frank dux

http://martialarts.jameshom.com/library/weekly/aa073001a.htm

Meet Frank Dux  

Part 1: The Legendary Kumite Champion of Bloodsport  

"Frank Dux strides through the group of students, correcting their pivots and sidesteps in the movement drill he's teaching. Most know of Dux (pronounced "dukes") through the film Bloodsport, which gave action star Jean Claude Van Damme his first big break. Few know of the controversy surrounding Dux and his history--or lack of one, as his critics claim.

Bloodsport follows a young Frank Dux, a soldier on leave from the US military to fight in the Kumite-- a secret, underground tournament of the best fighters in the world. Through skill, perseverance, and sheer luck, Dux is triumphant at the end. Although tainted by the usual martial arts movie formula--hero trains hard, meets buddy, buddy gets beat up by villain, hero defeats villain and gets the girl--the byline of the movie catches your attention: "Based on a true story." Could something like the Kumite really take place?

Dux described the Kumite to me as a big "house party." Basically, said Dux, the tournament was held on a private island in the Bahamas to avoid any legal repercussions. As this was 1975, when the martial arts were still new to most folks and therefore mysterious and potentially "evil," this seems like a wise move. Fighters would take each other on at a wealthy promoter's estate. Dux explained how he became champion only after defeating the chosen fighter of ten different promoters, including having to travel to Asia for underground fights.

The controversy surrounding Dux begins with the tale of the Kumite itself. In May 1988, shortly after the release of Bloodsport, Los Angeles Times writer John Johnson blasted Dux and his story, claiming that Dux made it all up."

What do you guys think ?

Chicago Green Dragon

 :asian:


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## shaolinchi

Touch o' death, don't get snappy...I haven't really seen any movies that are similar to Enter the Dragon, if you would like you can name a few, maybe I can check them out.  Then i'll get back to you and harp about his borrowings...Thanks


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## shaolinchi

oh and bignick, I agree, the Kung Fu game is still definitely a cool game!


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## Corporal Hicks

Ah ha, Another person believing somebody is copying Bruce Lee.......I'll shut up now! Just dont be like the Killbill thread lol!


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## shaolinchi

lol, nope i haven't even seen kill bill yet.  don't really know if i should, heard mixed reviews...is it worth seeing?


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## CanuckMA

The first one was OK if you like no plot and unrealistic fight scenes. The second one sucked big time. 2 fights, total time of maybe 5 minutes.


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## shaolinchi

haha, never seen any of the others...don't get me wrong, i'm not taking anything away from Jean Claude, he is in phenomenal shape and can throw his kicks out pretty darn well.  but i'm just not feeling it...


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## TonyM.

The tooth fairy story is more believable than "bloodsport".


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## Enson

you can actually hear a frank dux interview under www.kellyworden.com . just look under past shows and you will find it. he makes mention to bloodsport and other issues about him. judge for yourself.

kill bill 1 was eehhh okay if you like action but i enjoyed part 2 better. had actually a story behind it. most people like to watch movies to learn martial arts. i enjoy movies for what they are. movies! a story telling with picture. i guess those that didn't like bedtime stories can't relate. for me i loved them. no matter how fake "the 3 bears" were.
peace


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## ed-swckf

i found both films entertaining, i am not a big jcvd fan though, but i'd watch it if its on tv and i have nothing better to do.  I don't think the story telling or plot line of either of these films was anything spectacular but they were both great action films and the story was strong enough to keep the films together and flowing well.  The thing you have to remember is competition has always been intertwined with martial arts and numerous films show this, its no big supprise.


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## CanuckMA

TonyM. said:
			
		

> The tooth fairy story is more believable than "bloodsport".




The tooth fairy is not real??? :waah:


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## sifu nick

Ya don't hear to much about good ole Frank Dux these days. Then again not too much outta Jean Fraud Van Damme either. Neither one can back up their claims. Van Damme claims to come to the U.S penniless but in fact had plenty of cash and the sole purpose of being a movie star. Also once claimed to be a WAKO World Kickboxing Champion yet I've spoken to the heads of WAKO and they say that's also not true. No wonder why these two were once friends. Birds of a feather....


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## Kenpoist

Bolo Young was in both movies and the same line was used after a board/brick was broken during the movie -  "nice trick but boards/bricks don't hit back".


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## Randy Strausbaugh

shaolinchi said:
			
		

> I haven't really seen any movies that are similar to Enter the Dragon, if you would like you can name a few, maybe I can check them out.


Try "Force Five" starring Joe Lewis, Benny Urquidez, and Bong Soo Han.


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## kickillustrated

sifu nick said:


> Ya don't hear to much about good ole Frank Dux these days. Then again not too much outta Jean Fraud Van Damme either. Neither one can back up their claims. Van Damme claims to come to the U.S penniless but in fact had plenty of cash and the sole purpose of being a movie star. Also once claimed to be a WAKO World Kickboxing Champion yet I've spoken to the heads of WAKO and they say that's also not true. No wonder why these two were once friends. Birds of a feather....


JCVD never competed in a WAKO world championship. He called Mike Anderson one time, back then WAKO president and promoter of the world championships 1979, to send him a letter of confirmation about his participation in the event, but Anderson denied his request.


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## PhotonGuy

CanuckMA said:


> The tooth fairy is not real??? :waah:


The tooth fairy is real, as is Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny. They're all one in the same, otherwise known as Dad.


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## Dirty Dog

PhotonGuy said:


> The tooth fairy is real, as is Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny. They're all one in the same, otherwise known as Dad.


The expression is "one and the same" and they are not necessarily one and the same. Nor is it always Dad. So... a swing and a miss. But keep trying.


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## Flying Crane

The problem with Bloodsport is that it really really really really REALLY sucked.  One of the worst movies ever made.  It is unwatchable.  I tried, a few weeks ago.  Couldn’t get past about the first ten minutes.


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## Dirty Dog

Flying Crane said:


> The problem with Bloodsport is that it really really really really REALLY sucked.  One of the worst movies ever made.  It is unwatchable.  I tried, a few weeks ago.  Couldn’t get past about the first ten minutes.


Pretty much a classic of the genre.


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## Steve

PhotonGuy said:


> The tooth fairy is real, as is Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny. They're all one in the same, otherwise known as Dad.


That was a good one.


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## Flying Crane

Dirty Dog said:


> Pretty much a classic of the genre.


Yeah, but this one, I mean it was just really bad.  A cringey moment every moment.  If ever there was a movie that shouldn’t have been made, it’s this one.


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## PhotonGuy

Dirty Dog said:


> The expression is "one and the same" and they are not necessarily one and the same. Nor is it always Dad.


True, Mom can sometimes fill in those roles too.


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## Instructor

Flying Crane said:


> Yeah, but this one, I mean it was just really bad.  A cringey moment every moment.  If ever there was a movie that shouldn’t have been made, it’s this one.


It seems like most 80's martial arts movies are pretty "bad" by modern standards but I still watch and enjoy them.  A couple of notable stand outs are: The Karate Kid, and the Best of the Best. I love both of these movies, they aren't perfect, but what is?


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## Oily Dragon

Well without Bloodsport we would never have learned the truth about ninjutsu, dim mak, or the effectiveness of blinding powder in full contact competition (it's very effective, unless your opponent is a ninja)


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## Steve

Instructor said:


> It seems like most 80's martial arts movies are pretty "bad" by modern standards but I still watch and enjoy them.  A couple of notable stand outs are: The Karate Kid, and the Best of the Best. I love both of these movies, they aren't perfect, but what is?


Best of the best was great.


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## Steve

Speaking of best of the best, Eric Roberts was in a fencing movie that wasn’t too bad. By the Sword.  Not a movie that gets made today, I don’t think.


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## Flying Crane

Instructor said:


> It seems like most 80's martial arts movies are pretty "bad" by modern standards but I still watch and enjoy them.  A couple of notable stand outs are: The Karate Kid, and the Best of the Best. I love both of these movies, they aren't perfect, but what is?


I can get behind that sentiment, which is why we tried to watch it again recently.  But I found it to be utterly unwatchable.


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## Oily Dragon

F. Murray Abraham is the best of the best of the best.


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## Oily Dragon

Steve said:


> Speaking of best of the best, Eric Roberts was in a fencing movie that wasn’t too bad. By the Sword.  Not a movie that gets made today, I don’t think.


This movie was basically Top Gun, but with fencing instead of Tomcats.


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## Xue Sheng

Wow...this post is from 2 years before my time on MT......


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## Dirty Dog

Steve said:


> Speaking of best of the best, Eric Roberts was in a fencing movie that wasn’t too bad. By the Sword.  Not a movie that gets made today, I don’t think.


Didn't ring any bells till I watched the trailer. I recall watching it about a million years ago. Now I feel like I need to watch it again.


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## Instructor

Another honorable mention though it's from the early 90's is The Perfect Weapon with Jeff Speakman.  I served with a member of his family, but so many years have gone by I can't remember the guys name or his relation to Jeff Speakman.  I just remember he had a big Perfect Weapon movie poster in his office with Jeff's autograph.


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## Instructor

Steve said:


> Speaking of best of the best, Eric Roberts was in a fencing movie that wasn’t too bad. By the Sword.  Not a movie that gets made today, I don’t think.


I never even heard of this movie.  Now I must see it.


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## Instructor

I found the full version of By The Sword on YouBoob and I'm already twitching watching Eric Roberts fence without face protection.  How does the man still have two eyes?  Guess I turned into a safety nerd somewhere along the way.


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## Dirty Dog

Instructor said:


> I found the full version of By The Sword on YouBoob and I'm already twitching watching Eric Roberts fence without face protection.  How does the man still have two eyes?  Guess I turned into a safety nerd somewhere along the way.


You don't need a mask for choreography...


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## Oily Dragon




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## Wing Woo Gar

Oily Dragon said:


>


I saw Van Damme get KO’d in one shot in front of Spago restaurant by a guy in a giant cowboy hat circa 1990. Just happened to be walking by with my buddies. I heard the guy was a bodyguard for somebody famous and may have been a ranking member of H.A. I have no idea what caused it, but  it will always be the first thing I think of when I hear Van Damme’s name.


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## Oily Dragon

Wing Woo Gar said:


> I saw Van Damme get KO’d in one shot in front of Spago restaurant by a guy in a giant cowboy hat circa 1990. Just happened to be walking by with my buddies. I heard the guy was a bodyguard for somebody famous and may have been a ranking member of H.A. I have no idea what caused it, but  it will always be the first thing I think of when I hear Van Damme’s name.


That was a Stan Bush song.


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## Wing Woo Gar

Oily Dragon said:


> That was a Stan Bush song.


Huh? I don’t get it. Maybe your comedic timing was off.


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## Oily Dragon

Wing Woo Gar said:


> Huh? I don’t get it. Maybe your comedic timing was off.


How could you not get Stan Bush.  Maybe you're a little too focused on Jean Claude.


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## Wing Woo Gar

Oily Dragon said:


> How could you not get Stan Bush.  Maybe you're a little too focused on Jean Claude.


Ouch! That was painful. I still don’t get it. I wish I did because I never wanted to hear that song, ever.


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## Dirty Dog

Instructor said:


> I found the full version of By The Sword on YouBoob and I'm already twitching watching Eric Roberts fence without face protection.  How does the man still have two eyes?  Guess I turned into a safety nerd somewhere along the way.


Just finished watching By the Sword.
Just as cheesy as you'd expect. Classic Sword-Fu, with everybody parrying waaayyyyyy too far and trying to hack & slash with an epee. And the usual nonsense about taking the rubber tip off a super flexible practice sword and turning it into a deadly weapon, instead of a super flexible practice sword with a smaller, but still blunt, tip. Laughed out loud at the two-handed rapier hacking.
For the genre, not bad at all.


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## jks9199

Really, folks... don't you know...  Jean Claude Van Damme was a secret agent the whole time!


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## Oily Dragon

Wing Woo Gar said:


> Ouch! That was painful. I still don’t get it. I wish I did because I never wanted to hear that song, ever.


You're dissing one of the greatest voices of the 80's.


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## Instructor

Dirty Dog said:


> Just finished watching By the Sword.
> Just as cheesy as you'd expect. Classic Sword-Fu, with everybody parrying waaayyyyyy too far and trying to hack & slash with an epee. And the usual nonsense about taking the rubber tip off a super flexible practice sword and turning it into a deadly weapon, instead of a super flexible practice sword with a smaller, but still blunt, tip. Laughed out loud at the two-handed rapier hacking.
> For the genre, not bad at all.


Just finished, a bit later than you because of the wife's honey do list.  

Coming from someone who doesn't know much about fencing, I enjoyed the movie. I thought F. Murray Abraham delivered another amazing performance.  Eric Roberts was solid as well.  I did notice he said "What is wrong with you?" Which was the same line in the Best of the Best.  It made me wonder if maybe he just says that instead of it being on the script.

Sword fighting is so romanticized in literature and film, I suspect the reality would be ghastly to behold. The sword fight at the end of Rob Roy comes to mind.

My thanks to Steve for recommending the movie.


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## Dirty Dog

Instructor said:


> Just finished, a bit later than you because of the wife's honey do list.
> 
> Coming from someone who doesn't know much about fencing, I enjoyed the movie. I thought F. Murray Abraham delivered another amazing performance.  Eric Roberts was solid as well.


They're excellent actors. But they can only do so much with what they're given. Like the weird cut scenes involving armored knights. What does that have to do with anything in the movie?


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## Steve

Instructor said:


> Just finished, a bit later than you because of the wife's honey do list.
> 
> Coming from someone who doesn't know much about fencing, I enjoyed the movie. I thought F. Murray Abraham delivered another amazing performance.  Eric Roberts was solid as well.  I did notice he said "What is wrong with you?" Which was the same line in the Best of the Best.  It made me wonder if maybe he just says that instead of it being on the script.
> 
> Sword fighting is so romanticized in literature and film, I suspect the reality would be ghastly to behold. The sword fight at the end of Rob Roy comes to mind.
> 
> My thanks to Steve for recommending the movie.


Rob Roy was great.  That last sword fight was amazing.


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## Wing Woo Gar

Oily Dragon said:


> You're dissing one of the greatest voices of the 80's.


Yes, yes I am doing that exact thing. I may do it again too. I’m likely to Make a poor joke with impeccably bad timing.


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## Oily Dragon

Wing Woo Gar said:


> Yes, yes I am doing that exact thing. I may do it again too. I’m likely to Make a poor joke with impeccably bad timing.


My basement is flooding, right now.  Your timing is right on.


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## Wing Woo Gar

Oily Dragon said:


> My basement is flooding, right now.  Your timing is right on.


Oh no! Sorry to hear that.


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## Wing Woo Gar

Oily Dragon said:


> My basement is flooding, right now.  Your timing is right on.


Wait, that’s ogre from revenge of the nerds.


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## drop bear

Oily Dragon said:


> How could you not get Stan Bush.  Maybe you're a little too focused on Jean Claude.



You did transformers and you didn't do the touch?


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## drop bear

Wing Woo Gar said:


> Wait, that’s ogre from revenge of the nerds.



Correct.


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## Instructor

Oily Dragon said:


> My basement is flooding, right now.  Your timing is right on.


Oh, man that sucks. Sump pump give out on you or something?


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## Xue Sheng

Oily Dragon said:


> My basement is flooding, right now.  Your timing is right on.



Brick not hit back,,,,REALLY...nothing like stealing a line from Enter the Dragon "Boards don't hit back"


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## Steve

Xue Sheng said:


> Brick not hit back,,,,REALLY...nothing like stealing a line from Enter the Dragon "Boards don't hit back"


Okay, USA!


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## Oily Dragon

drop bear said:


> You did transformers and you didn't do the touch?


I did, right in my next post.

I was going to post the Marky Mark version from Boogie Nights, but the comedic timing wasn't right. Last night started well but...

Today's a new day though.


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## Oily Dragon

Instructor said:


> Oh, man that sucks. Sump pump give out on you or something?


Basically.  The discharge pipe came loose when it was already underwater, I had to manually rig it to form a seal and run nonstop (which it did for 6 hours without overheating, I woke up impressed).


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## Instructor

Oily Dragon said:


> Basically.  The discharge pipe came loose when it was already underwater, I had to manually rig it to form a seal and run nonstop (which it did for 6 hours without overheating, I woke up impressed).


That right there is why I bought a house above the waterline.


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## Oily Dragon

Instructor said:


> That right there is why I bought a house above the waterline.


My place is actually on a hill, but the thing about basements is that no matter what elevation, it's big hole in the ground and all it takes is too much water too fast for the guttering and pump to handle.

Got a plumber on the way.  Supposed to be going away on vacation tomorrow too, how's that for comedic timing.  Life has a way of being stupid funny all the time.  At least it didn't happen while I was away.

That said...this is my martial arts solo song.  I sing this out loud whenever I train.  People look at me funny, because they don't understand the tortured soul of the martial artist.


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## Wing Woo Gar

Oily Dragon said:


> I did, right in my next post.
> 
> I was going to post the Marky Mark version from Boogie Nights, but the comedic timing wasn't right. Last night started well but...
> 
> Today's a new day though.





Oily Dragon said:


> My place is actually on a hill, but the thing about basements is that no matter what elevation, it's big hole in the ground and all it takes is too much water too fast for the guttering and pump to handle.
> 
> Got a plumber on the way.  Supposed to be going away on vacation tomorrow too, how's that for comedic timing.  Life has a way of being stupid funny all the time.  At least it didn't happen while I was away.
> 
> That said...


What about Lam Sai Wing thread? You tease and tease.


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## Oily Dragon

Wing Woo Gar said:


> What about Lam Sai Wing thread? You tease and tease.


Well I got it started with some pretty solid research from the Czech Hung Kuen folk.

There's even an icebreaker question, I wanted to get ahead of that whole thing.  Nothing like a kung fu argument about the number of things...elements, animals, meridians, directions, flavors, colors..






						The Twelve (Sometimes Ten) Sounds of the Southern Shaolin Iron Wire
					

I've been putting this off too long, but rather than write a whole bunch, I decided to seek out a decent intro, written by someone else.  Here's an icebreaker question: Is it 10 or 12 sounds?  I have made some pretty spooky sounds performing this fist set, sometimes I forget which sound goes...



					www.martialtalk.com


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## Wing Woo Gar

Oily Dragon said:


> Well I got it started with some pretty solid research from the Czech Hung Kuen folk.
> 
> There's even an icebreaker question, I wanted to get ahead of that whole thing.  Nothing like a kung fu argument about the number of things...elements, animals, meridians, directions, flavors, colors..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Twelve (Sometimes Ten) Sounds of the Southern Shaolin Iron Wire
> 
> 
> I've been putting this off too long, but rather than write a whole bunch, I decided to seek out a decent intro, written by someone else.  Here's an icebreaker question: Is it 10 or 12 sounds?  I have made some pretty spooky sounds performing this fist set, sometimes I forget which sound goes...
> 
> 
> 
> www.martialtalk.com


I won’t argue. Im interested to hear whatever you come up with. James Wing Woo was a student of Lam Sai Wing, amongst others in the 1930s era.


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## Wing Woo Gar

Oily Dragon said:


> Well I got it started with some pretty solid research from the Czech Hung Kuen folk.
> 
> There's even an icebreaker question, I wanted to get ahead of that whole thing.  Nothing like a kung fu argument about the number of things...elements, animals, meridians, directions, flavors, colors..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Twelve (Sometimes Ten) Sounds of the Southern Shaolin Iron Wire
> 
> 
> I've been putting this off too long, but rather than write a whole bunch, I decided to seek out a decent intro, written by someone else.  Here's an icebreaker question: Is it 10 or 12 sounds?  I have made some pretty spooky sounds performing this fist set, sometimes I forget which sound goes...
> 
> 
> 
> www.martialtalk.com


I never learned this form, I saw it several times when I was only a few years into training. I was told by Sifu Woo that if done improperly, one could cause injury or illness to oneself. My training brothers and I are reconstructing the history and timeline of when certain forms and exercises came into our system. Maybe you could help me with a couple of questions? Who was teaching Tom Long Pai around the 1930s in Canton? Also, same question for a lost track Lin Quan style which is where we got our slippery floor training.


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## Oily Dragon

Wing Woo Gar said:


> I never learned this form, I saw it several times when I was only a few years into training. I was told by Sifu Woo that if done improperly, one could cause injury or illness to oneself. My training brothers and I are reconstructing the history and timeline of when certain forms and exercises came into our system. Maybe you could help me with a couple of questions? Who was teaching Tom Long Pai around the 1930s in Canton? Also, same question for a lost track Lin Quan style which is where we got our slippery floor training.


Yeah, you can easily herniate yourself doing this set.  That's actually what ended Lam Sai Wing.  He literally kung fu'd himself to death.  It goes with the territory I guess.

I'll look into those other things, Dragon style lineages in the south are really, really, really complex.


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## Wing Woo Gar

Oily Dragon said:


> Yeah, you can easily herniate yourself doing this set.  That's actually what ended Lam Sai Wing.  He literally kung fu'd himself to death.  It goes with the territory I guess.
> 
> I'll look into those other things, Dragon style lineages in the south are really, really, really complex.


Thank you very much for your consideration.


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## drop bear

This is fun.

 It is not frank dux of course because he made the whole thing up.


It probably isn't an underground fight.






But what he based his story on?


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