# Being tactful and using magic words



## PhotonGuy

It is not a good idea if you ask me is to give in because you want to be polite. For instance, I've said before how if you don't want to shake hands you shouldn't shake hands because you've got that right and for whatever reason, you might not want to shake hands. I takled about telling the person to put their hand back but I know its also important to be tactful, that means to be polite but still stand your ground. If you shake hands when you don't want to that is not being tactful, its giving in and its being a doormat. And martial artists don't shake hands but that's beside the point. Being tactful would be to say something like, "I don't shake hands," instead of just telling the person to put their hand back and coming across as offensive. This is important because I was really ticked off at this woman at Walmart. I was buying an age restricted product so she needed to know my DOB and she commented about my birthday. You see, I've got this birthday that is bound to get comments. I also think I should get special treatment because of my birthday but that is beside the point. (That last sentence was not meant to be taken seriously.) Anyway, I was very much offended about her comment about my birthday. Some people, lots of people might say I get too easily offended by the wrong stuff, and that might be so but it is what it is. As much as I was tempted to yell in her face at her at the top of my lungs, "DON'T (expletive) COMMENT ABOUT MY BIRTHDAY YOU STUPID (expletive)!" (I didn't do that by the way) I would be much better off to say something such as "Please don't comment about my birthday, I really don't appreciate it." So the key is to be firm but courteous. Don't allow people to cross certain lines but do so nicely. And also to use magic words such as please and thank you.

As it is, though, I am still thinking of going back and complaining to management about her. This is a really nice Walmart located in Pahrump, NV, and I often go shopping there when Im taking classes at FrontSight so I might not do that, but Im still considering it.


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## Blindside

So a person that doesn't know you, doesn't know about your particular anxiety about your birthday, makes an innocent comment, and you are going to complain to management?

You are easily offended.


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## Cirdan

Seems to me PG is making some kind of statement (again) rather than putting a subject up for discussion, and that perhaps this information is better suited for a blog or something.

Anyway what do you mean martial artists don`t shake hands? Am I breaking some universal rule when I greet new members on the mat that way?

As for the comment about your birthday, there are better things to spend time and energy on than to get all worked up over something as minor as that. Grow some skin.


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## Blindside

It took me an embarrassingly long time to learn the Dog Brothers not-really-secret handshake, and now I learn the martial artists don't shake hands?  Dang it.


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## Chris Parker

PhotonGuy said:


> It is not a good idea if you ask me is to give in because you want to be polite. For instance, I've said before how if you don't want to shake hands you shouldn't shake hands because you've got that right and for whatever reason, you might not want to shake hands. I takled about telling the person to put their hand back but I know its also important to be tactful, that means to be polite but still stand your ground. If you shake hands when you don't want to that is not being tactful, its giving in and its being a doormat. And martial artists don't shake hands but that's beside the point. Being tactful would be to say something like, "I don't shake hands," instead of just telling the person to put their hand back and coming across as offensive. This is important because I was really ticked off at this woman at Walmart. I was buying an age restricted product so she needed to know my DOB and she commented about my birthday. You see, I've got this birthday that is bound to get comments. I also think I should get special treatment because of my birthday but that is beside the point. (That last sentence was not meant to be taken seriously.) Anyway, I was very much offended about her comment about my birthday. Some people, lots of people might say I get too easily offended by the wrong stuff, and that might be so but it is what it is. As much as I was tempted to yell in her face at her at the top of my lungs, "DON'T (expletive) COMMENT ABOUT MY BIRTHDAY YOU STUPID (expletive)!" (I didn't do that by the way) I would be much better off to say something such as "Please don't comment about my birthday, I really don't appreciate it." So the key is to be firm but courteous. Don't allow people to cross certain lines but do so nicely. And also to use magic words such as please and thank you.
> 
> As it is, though, I am still thinking of going back and complaining to management about her. This is a really nice Walmart located in Pahrump, NV, and I often go shopping there when Im taking classes at FrontSight so I might not do that, but Im still considering it.



You really, really need to get help. Seriously.

And, before you think this is an attack, you are showing huge hallmarks of a range of psychological and developmental issues&#8230; I am being completely serious when I say you need to get help&#8230; you want to complain to management for someone commenting on your birthday, wanting to scream obscenities in the poor girls face&#8230; and you think you understand about tact?!?!

Get help. We're beyond telling you to get over it, you won't. You really, really need help.


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## K-man

Cirdan said:


> Seems to me PG is making some kind of statement (again) rather than putting a subject up for discussion, and that perhaps this information is better suited for a blog or something.
> 
> Anyway what do you mean martial artists don`t shake hands? Am I breaking some universal rule when I greet new members on the mat that way?


Damn! I've been doing the wrong thing for the past 30 odd years too. Oh well, it's probably too late to change now so I will just keep on shaking hands.


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## PhotonGuy

Cirdan said:


> Seems to me PG is making some kind of statement (again) rather than putting a subject up for discussion, and that perhaps this information is better suited for a blog or something.
> 
> Anyway what do you mean martial artists don`t shake hands? Am I breaking some universal rule when I greet new members on the mat that way?
> 
> As for the comment about your birthday, there are better things to spend time and energy on than to get all worked up over something as minor as that. Grow some skin.



In the far east, where many of the martial arts originated, they don't shake hands, they bow. Therefore, perhaps martial artists should bow instead of shaking hands, just a thought.

And I've been putting up with comments about my birthday all my life. You get sick and tired of it after awhile. Everybody has a breaking point.


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## PhotonGuy

Blindside said:


> So a person that doesn't know you, doesn't know about your particular anxiety about your birthday, makes an innocent comment, and you are going to complain to management?
> 
> You are easily offended.



I am easily offended about some things, yes, but it is surprising what people can be offended about. Especially today people take all sorts of innocent comments to mean racial connotations to mention one example.


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## PhotonGuy

Chris Parker said:


> You really, really need to get help. Seriously.
> 
> And, before you think this is an attack, you are showing huge hallmarks of a range of psychological and developmental issues&#8230; I am being completely serious when I say you need to get help&#8230; you want to complain to management for someone commenting on your birthday, wanting to scream obscenities in the poor girls face&#8230; and you think you understand about tact?!?!
> 
> Get help. We're beyond telling you to get over it, you won't. You really, really need help.



Yeah whatever. What are you a psychologist?


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## Cirdan

K-man said:


> Damn! I've been doing the wrong thing for the past 30 odd years too. Oh well, it's probably too late to change now so I will just keep on shaking hands.



Are you sure that is safe? I am living in fear of the secret forces boy scout black belt unit who could storm the dojo to strip me of my rank any time now


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## Chris Parker

PhotonGuy said:


> In the far east, where many of the martial arts originated, they don't shake hands, they bow. Therefore, perhaps martial artists should bow instead of shaking hands, just a thought.



No.

But here's a question&#8230; do you know why they bow instead of shaking hands? And can you see why it's not appropriate depending on the social context in a Western culture?



PhotonGuy said:


> And I've been putting up with comments about my birthday all my life. You get sick and tired of it after awhile. Everybody has a breaking point.



Sure&#8230; I have no interest in any attention to my birthday either&#8230; to the point that I refuse most acknowledgement of it&#8230; but I'm not about to scream obscenities at a store girl for being friendly and inquisitive about me&#8230; my friends who know me well know that it's not something to talk about, but those outside of those circles don't. The lack of acceptance that others aren't living by your arbitrary rules isn't a good sign here.


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## Chris Parker

PhotonGuy said:


> Yeah whatever. What are you a psychologist?



Funny you should ask&#8230; 

I'll put it this way. I've studied Psychology (and a large number of related areas) for decades&#8230; and am currently getting the official paperwork in some of these areas&#8230; am I officially a psychologist? Nope. But my background is actually not too far from it, bluntly.


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## Cirdan

PhotonGuy said:


> In the far east, where many of the martial arts originated, they don't shake hands, they bow. Therefore, perhaps martial artists should bow instead of shaking hands, just a thought.



That is.. I can`t find the word. I think Dilbert would call it a "trodlodytic" statement.



> And I've been putting up with comments about my birthday all my life. You get sick and tired of it after awhile. Everybody has a breaking point.



Comments about your birthday, name, place of birth ect is part of life. If that brings you to the breaking point you really need some help.


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## PhotonGuy

Chris Parker said:


> No.
> 
> But here's a question&#8230; do you know why they bow instead of shaking hands? And can you see why it's not appropriate depending on the social context in a Western culture?



Its a cultural thing. In the east they bow instead of shaking hands.



Chris Parker said:


> Sure&#8230; I have no interest in any attention to my birthday either&#8230; to the point that I refuse most acknowledgement of it&#8230; but I'm not about to scream obscenities at a store girl for being friendly and inquisitive about me&#8230; my friends who know me well know that it's not something to talk about, but those outside of those circles don't. The lack of acceptance that others aren't living by your arbitrary rules isn't a good sign here.



If you read my post entirely, I said I didn't do that. A much better thing to do would be to say to her to please not make comments about my birthday. And if you had a birthday like mine you might get tired of people commenting about it too.


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## Tez3

A birthday like yours? Well you should be thankful you have a birthday, no one but you actually cares what day it's on because many of us have different calendars so to many of us your birthday is not on any special day.


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## Cirdan

Whatever PGs birthday is, there are several million people in whe world with the same one. If they organize to put a stop to this injustice of infuriating bd comments, they`d have more power than many small countries.


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## Chris Parker

PhotonGuy said:


> Its a cultural thing. In the east they bow instead of shaking hands.



That's the observation do you know the reason?



PhotonGuy said:


> If you read my post entirely, I said I didn't do that. A much better thing to do would be to say to her to please not make comments about my birthday. And if you had a birthday like mine you might get tired of people commenting about it too.



I didn't say you responded that way, I highlighted that you wanted to respond that way which you did and no, that's not the "much better" thing to do it's a slightly better thing to do. Your social calibration is really, really lacking.


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## Gnarlie

How about a little empathy and understanding of another's point if view, PG? 

To you, that checkout girl is the millionth person to make a banal comment about your birthday. 

To her, you are the first person she has met born on that day and her comment is original and witty.

Biting someone's head off for that kind of comment won't change their behaviour regardless if how you say it; they are only human and the comment has already been made.

Requesting that she not comment on your birthday after she has already commented on it just makes you appear irrational and cranky to her.

You really seem to not have an appreciation of how others may see you based on your behaviour. It might be something to think about more.


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## Tez3

Gnarlie said:


> How about a little empathy and understanding of another's point if view, PG?
> 
> To you, that checkout girl is the millionth person to make a banal comment about your birthday.
> 
> To her, you are the first person she has met born on that day and her comment is original and witty.
> 
> Biting someone's head off for that kind of comment won't change their behaviour regardless if how you say it; they are only human and the comment has already been made.
> 
> Requesting that she not comment on your birthday after she has already commented on it just makes you appear irrational and cranky to her.
> 
> You really seem to not have an appreciation of how others may see you based on your behaviour. It might be something to think about more.



Wise words. We don't know what other people are going through, it may have taken that girl a lot of courage to speak to customers, to even take the job, she may be masking heartbreak while being polite to customers. People who work in the retail industry are often treated like dirt, as being lesser people doing a 'menial' job. I make sure that whenever I speak to a shop assistant I look them in the eye and smile and speak politely even if I have to make a complaint. Treat people as you want to be treated yourself, politeness costs nothing, it is the oil that eases our lives everyday. 
Be the person who brightens the day for someone even for a few seconds. Think about the bad days you've had when just one smile from a stranger could have made you feel better, Be that stranger who smiles, who knows, you may save a life.


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## K-man

Cirdan said:


> Are you sure that is safe? I am living in fear of the secret forces boy scout black belt unit who could storm the dojo to strip me of my rank any time now


Mate, I never made it to scouts but my mates who did were all nice guys. I don't think you have anything to worry about from scouts. Now I don't want you to stress you out or make you paranoid, but if PG was to drop by ... :s471:


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## PhotonGuy

Chris Parker said:


> That's the observation&#8230; do you know the reason?



Im not a historian on cultural customs so no I don't know the reason.



Chris Parker said:


> I didn't say you responded that way, I highlighted that you wanted to respond that way&#8230; which you did&#8230; and no, that's not the "much better" thing to do&#8230; it's a slightly better thing to do. Your social calibration is really, really lacking.



When I was at the store and she made the comment about my birthday I had just spent 8 hours standing out in the sun doing drills and I had been doing that for the last four days, and this was out in the desert where the sun is really hot so I had been really stressed out. That was why I was a bit more fed up about her comment about my birthday and in particular what she said. Also, when I made this original post, on top of having just spent the last four days doing what I described above I had also had a few beers, so that had something to do with why I said what I said in my post. Anyway, while I think its important to be courteous to people its also important to be firm about lines you don't want crossed. And as I said, if you had a birthday on the same day I do and you get comments about it all your life, not to mention the names people sometimes call you such as what she called me you would probably get sick and tired of it too. At the very least, there shouldn't be anything wrong with letting people know that you don't appreciate it.


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## Cirdan

K-man said:


> Now I don't want you to stress you out or make you paranoid, but if PG was to drop by ... :s471:



Easily dealt with, I`d just have my kiddie orange belts explain to him what shut up and train means until it is time to go home and repeat if he showed up again. It`s an argument he couldn`t refuse.


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## PhotonGuy

Gnarlie said:


> How about a little empathy and understanding of another's point if view, PG?
> 
> To you, that checkout girl is the millionth person to make a banal comment about your birthday.
> 
> To her, you are the first person she has met born on that day and her comment is original and witty.
> 
> Biting someone's head off for that kind of comment won't change their behaviour regardless if how you say it; they are only human and the comment has already been made.
> 
> Requesting that she not comment on your birthday after she has already commented on it just makes you appear irrational and cranky to her.
> 
> You really seem to not have an appreciation of how others may see you based on your behaviour. It might be something to think about more.


There are 375 days in a year. Out of the roughly 7 billion people in the world there are no doubt more than a few people who have their birthday on the same day I do. As a matter of fact, the bartender I met today has her birthday on the same day as me. Now, while this woman at the store probably hasn't met all 7 billion people in the world I would bet she has met other people with their birthday on the same day as me. And her comment was anything but original and witty, I have heard it at least a million times before. And while Im not saying I would bite her head off and that while doing so wouldn't change the fact that she already made the comment, I should at least let her know that I don't appreciate her comment. There are tactful ways to do it. 

And if I appear I don't have an appreciation as to how others see me based on my behavior, it might very well appear that way with the posts I make here. Some of the stuff I say in these posts I would not say to somebody face to face where they know who I am. That way, I can get feedback here that I wouldn't get face to face, so thanks for the feedback.


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## PhotonGuy

Tez3 said:


> Wise words. We don't know what other people are going through, it may have taken that girl a lot of courage to speak to customers, to even take the job, she may be masking heartbreak while being polite to customers. People who work in the retail industry are often treated like dirt, as being lesser people doing a 'menial' job. I make sure that whenever I speak to a shop assistant I look them in the eye and smile and speak politely even if I have to make a complaint. Treat people as you want to be treated yourself, politeness costs nothing, it is the oil that eases our lives everyday.
> Be the person who brightens the day for someone even for a few seconds. Think about the bad days you've had when just one smile from a stranger could have made you feel better, Be that stranger who smiles, who knows, you may save a life.



If she is treated like dirt in her job, well she made the choice to take the job in the first place. I didn't make her work at Walmart and neither did anybody else for that matter. And from my experience people in retail are not treated like dirt and I worked at a retail store that was part of a chain of a major hardware corporation. All day long I would help customers load their stuff into their cars, push back shopping wagons from the parking lot, and do other such stuff. Most of the people were very grateful for my help and I even got tipped several times even though we weren't supposed to be tipped. It was a hard job, pushing around wagons and lifting and moving heavy stuff out in the hot sun all day, but it was not the customers that gave me a hard time. So no, from my experience people in retail are not treated like dirt. 

And yes politeness is important but you still got to make a complaint if you've got a complaint. You can make a complaint and still be polite, that's what it means to be tactful.


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## Gnarlie

I mean the following constructively. You know what I see from your last two posts? 

1) I see someone who, when they just miss the bus by a few seconds, does not only miss the bus. They miss the bus on top of all the other stuff that's gone wrong that week. 

2) Someone who knows that they are gonna have a bad day when they discover their car battery is flat first thing in the morning. Whole day ruined. 

3) Not just that, but someone who treats others based purely on how their own day has gone so far. Which is probably badly, due to points one and two, and bad things always coming in threes.

If you focus outward rather than inward, and view every event only in its isolated context, your life will be much easier and less stressful. Try to appreciate that every person you meet has their own subjective timeline similar to yours. Their timeline is invisible to you, but could be just as negative at any given time. How do you react when people are irrationally short with you?


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## Chris Parker

PhotonGuy said:


> Im not a historian on cultural customs so no I don't know the reason.



So, because you have an issue with hand-shaking, you think that martial artists, in a Western society, should maybe bow to each other instead, as that's what's done in Asian cultures, without even understanding why it's done there? Or why hand-shaking is done in Western culture? And without addressing the idea of how on earth martial artists are supposed to recognise each other in order to determine whether they bow or shake hands?

Can you see the issues with that?



PhotonGuy said:


> When I was at the store and she made the comment about my birthday I had just spent 8 hours standing out in the sun doing drills and I had been doing that for the last four days, and this was out in the desert where the sun is really hot so I had been really stressed out. That was why I was a bit more fed up about her comment about my birthday and in particular what she said. Also, when I made this original post, on top of having just spent the last four days doing what I described above I had also had a few beers, so that had something to do with why I said what I said in my post. Anyway, while I think its important to be courteous to people its also important to be firm about lines you don't want crossed. And as I said, if you had a birthday on the same day I do and you get comments about it all your life, not to mention the names people sometimes call you such as what she called me you would probably get sick and tired of it too. At the very least, there shouldn't be anything wrong with letting people know that you don't appreciate it.



Completely irrelevant. It really doesn't matter what kind of a day you've had, it doesn't matter how you feel about comments on your birthday, it doesn't matter what day it is, or what "names" you get as a result (I'd be willing to bet that you don't actually get called a name, although I can guess that a name is associated with the date, and it's referenced as a form of joke&#8230; and I'd suggest you learn to distinguish between those two occurrences), it doesn't matter what you think about how things should be either. The simple fact is that, while you are right that you can be "firm" about lines you don't want crossed, there are ways to do that that are socially acceptable, and ways that aren't&#8230; you, so far in both threads on this type of encounter (here and the hand-shaking one) have shown no ability to determine what they are. That's what you need to understand&#8230; frankly, if you behave in real life anywhere close to the way you present yourself here, you will be very socially isolated, and have a miserable life, allowing everyone and everything around you to frustrate and offend you.

That's why I'm saying you need help. You need to learn how to operate socially&#8230; right now, you just appear as if you'd come across as a rather self-centred jerk&#8230; which is of no benefit to you whatsoever.

Here's a suggestion. Let's throw a random date up there, that might give a name associated&#8230; let's say this hypothetical birthday is the 25th December&#8230; and people ask if your name is Jesus, or maybe Santa&#8230; maybe Kris Kringle&#8230; Instead of getting frustrated, acknowledge that, when someone learns the date, they're going to have some comment&#8230; it's a natural occurrence (if you want to know the psychology behind it, essentially they're making a connection between the date and their experiences&#8230; as the date is an unknown at the beginning, the connection also comes up as a surprise&#8230; which is why they offer their comment&#8230; in simple terms, they're just responding to what is to them new information)&#8230; so you might want to try heading it off&#8230; "My birthday? 25th December&#8230; my folks considered calling me Jesus, but with the last name "Jones", it was just a bit 80's&#8230;", "Sure, my birthday is December the 25th&#8230; I get double presents&#8230; it's great!", "December 25th. Now it's your turn&#8230; are you going the Jesus or Santa route? We'll see if you've got one I haven't heard yet!" (remember to be smiling as you say these!). Of course, you could simply acknowledge their comment in order to move on&#8230; just know that it's going to be said, and frankly, deal with it&#8230; going back to it to say how you don't want any focus is really just bringing focus back to it, you know&#8230; which really just says that it is something you want to bring attention to (as does this entire thread, bluntly, despite your protestations)&#8230; so, if you really don't want any attention on it, move past as quickly as possible.

"My birthday is December 25th."
"Really? Were you delivered in a hospital, or did Santa just bring you down the chimney?"
"Ha, you know, I never asked&#8230; anyway, what I need is&#8230;"

Does that make sense?


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## PhotonGuy

Cirdan said:


> Easily dealt with, I`d just have my kiddie orange belts explain to him what shut up and train means until it is time to go home and repeat if he showed up again. It`s an argument he couldn`t refuse.



I know all about what it means to shut up and train but Im not going to get into it because its an argument I can refuse.


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## Gnarlie

PhotonGuy said:


> If she is treated like dirt in her job, well she made the choice to take the job in the first place. I didn't make her work at Walmart and neither did anybody else for that matter.



Nobody forced you to train for 8 hours in the hot sun, make yourself all sweaty and cranky and then take it out on a sales assistant, either....


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## Chris Parker

PhotonGuy said:


> There are 375 days in a year. Out of the roughly 7 billion people in the world there are no doubt more than a few people who have their birthday on the same day I do. As a matter of fact, the bartender I met today has her birthday on the same day as me. Now, while this woman at the store probably hasn't met all 7 billion people in the world I would bet she has met other people with their birthday on the same day as me. And her comment was anything but original and witty, I have heard it at least a million times before. And while Im not saying I would bite her head off and that while doing so wouldn't change the fact that she already made the comment, I should at least let her know that I don't appreciate her comment. There are tactful ways to do it.



I have yet to see any evidence you understand what tact even is.



PhotonGuy said:


> And if I appear I don't have an appreciation as to how others see me based on my behavior, it might very well appear that way with the posts I make here. Some of the stuff I say in these posts I would not say to somebody face to face where they know who I am. That way, I can get feedback here that I wouldn't get face to face, so thanks for the feedback.



The feedback is only going to be beneficial to you if you learn from it&#8230; again, the evidence is not really overwhelming...



PhotonGuy said:


> If she is treated like dirt in her job, well she made the choice to take the job in the first place. I didn't make her work at Walmart and neither did anybody else for that matter. And from my experience people in retail are not treated like dirt and I worked at a retail store that was part of a chain of a major hardware corporation. All day long I would help customers load their stuff into their cars, push back shopping wagons from the parking lot, and do other such stuff. Most of the people were very grateful for my help and I even got tipped several times even though we weren't supposed to be tipped. It was a hard job, pushing around wagons and lifting and moving heavy stuff out in the hot sun all day, but it was not the customers that gave me a hard time. So no, from my experience people in retail are not treated like dirt.



I'm sorry, if people treat someone in retail like dirt, well, they chose to be there?!?! What the actual hell?!?! Suddenly the choice of job determines how everyone else behaves? The rest, I hardly know where to begin&#8230; but that's not what Tez was talking about in retail&#8230;  



PhotonGuy said:


> And yes politeness is important but you still got to make a complaint if you've got a complaint. You can make a complaint and still be polite, that's what it means to be tactful.



Why do you have to make a complaint? Because someone, when told your birthday, made a comment? Was it something that other people would consider an insult? Did she say, using the 25th December hypothetical again, something like "Wow, some people get presents&#8230; some get coal... how bad were your parents to get you?"

And no, making a complaint "and still being polite" is not what it means to be tactful. At all.


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## Cirdan

PhotonGuy said:


> I know all about what it means to shut up and train but Im not going to get into it because its an argument I can refuse.



No you don`t and I doubt you can. As I have mentioned before letting go of your colossal ego would help with those.


Besides, you need to know the secret handshake to get past the Cobra Viper guard at our dojo.


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## PhotonGuy

Chris Parker said:


> So, because you have an issue with hand-shaking, you think that martial artists, in a Western society, should maybe bow to each other instead, as that's what's done in Asian cultures, without even understanding why it's done there? Or why hand-shaking is done in Western culture? And without addressing the idea of how on earth martial artists are supposed to recognise each other in order to determine whether they bow or shake hands?
> 
> Can you see the issues with that?
> 
> 
> 
> Completely irrelevant. It really doesn't matter what kind of a day you've had, it doesn't matter how you feel about comments on your birthday, it doesn't matter what day it is, or what "names" you get as a result (I'd be willing to bet that you don't actually get called a name, although I can guess that a name is associated with the date, and it's referenced as a form of joke&#8230; and I'd suggest you learn to distinguish between those two occurrences), it doesn't matter what you think about how things should be either. The simple fact is that, while you are right that you can be "firm" about lines you don't want crossed, there are ways to do that that are socially acceptable, and ways that aren't&#8230; you, so far in both threads on this type of encounter (here and the hand-shaking one) have shown no ability to determine what they are. That's what you need to understand&#8230; frankly, if you behave in real life anywhere close to the way you present yourself here, you will be very socially isolated, and have a miserable life, allowing everyone and everything around you to frustrate and offend you.
> 
> That's why I'm saying you need help. You need to learn how to operate socially&#8230; right now, you just appear as if you'd come across as a rather self-centred jerk&#8230; which is of no benefit to you whatsoever.
> 
> Here's a suggestion. Let's throw a random date up there, that might give a name associated&#8230; let's say this hypothetical birthday is the 25th December&#8230; and people ask if your name is Jesus, or maybe Santa&#8230; maybe Kris Kringle&#8230; Instead of getting frustrated, acknowledge that, when someone learns the date, they're going to have some comment&#8230; it's a natural occurrence (if you want to know the psychology behind it, essentially they're making a connection between the date and their experiences&#8230; as the date is an unknown at the beginning, the connection also comes up as a surprise&#8230; which is why they offer their comment&#8230; in simple terms, they're just responding to what is to them new information)&#8230; so you might want to try heading it off&#8230; "My birthday? 25th December&#8230; my folks considered calling me Jesus, but with the last name "Jones", it was just a bit 80's&#8230;", "Sure, my birthday is December the 25th&#8230; I get double presents&#8230; it's great!", "December 25th. Now it's your turn&#8230; are you going the Jesus or Santa route? We'll see if you've got one I haven't heard yet!" (remember to be smiling as you say these!). Of course, you could simply acknowledge their comment in order to move on&#8230; just know that it's going to be said, and frankly, deal with it&#8230; going back to it to say how you don't want any focus is really just bringing focus back to it, you know&#8230; which really just says that it is something you want to bring attention to (as does this entire thread, bluntly, despite your protestations)&#8230; so, if you really don't want any attention on it, move past as quickly as possible.
> 
> "My birthday is December 25th."
> "Really? Were you delivered in a hospital, or did Santa just bring you down the chimney?"
> "Ha, you know, I never asked&#8230; anyway, what I need is&#8230;"
> 
> Does that make sense?



As a matter of fact you were right, my birthday is on December 25th, Christmas Day. And no, she did not call me any of the stuff that you mentioned. Rather she called me "Christmas baby," which I have heard before and I am quite sick of it. I am tired about people making comments about my birthday in general but I especially am tired of being called "Christmas baby." Sometimes people get fed up with stuff like that, I once knew this girl with the name Robin and she would get really fed up and offended whenever somebody made a "Batman and Robin," joke about her name because she had been hearing it all her life. And from my experience there are some benefits to being born on Christmas, you do get double the presents and you celebrate Christmas and your birthday all in one day, but the downside of it is that people comment about it because you have a birthday that sticks out. If I had a birthday on an ordinary day, such as July 15 (I don't know if July 15 means anything to anybody, its just a date I came up with at random that as far as I know isn't a holiday) than people would say nothing. But since my birthday is on a major holiday, I get comments about it often when somebody needs to know my DOB for whatever reason such as if Im buying age restricted products. It gets tiring after awhile. And there is a way to let people know that you don't like what they're doing and still be polite about it, thats what being tactful is all about.


----------



## PhotonGuy

Gnarlie said:


> Nobody forced you to train for 8 hours in the hot sun, make yourself all sweaty and cranky and then take it out on a sales assistant, either....



I did it because I enjoyed it. It was hard work but I really got a lot out of it and the fact that its so hard is part of what makes it so enjoyable, its a good challenge. And no, I did not take it out on her.


----------



## Gnarlie

PhotonGuy said:


> I did it because I enjoyed it. It was hard work but I really got a lot out of it and the fact that its so hard is part of what makes it so enjoyable, its a good challenge. And no, I did not take it out on her.


But you used it to justify your mood when dealing with her.


----------



## Tez3

PhotonGuy said:


> As a matter of fact you were right, my birthday is on December 25th, Christmas Day. And no, she did not call me any of the stuff that you mentioned. Rather she called me "Christmas baby," which I have heard before and I am quite sick of it. I am tired about people making comments about my birthday in general but I especially am tired of being called "Christmas baby." Sometimes people get fed up with stuff like that, I once knew this girl with the name Robin and she would get really fed up and offended whenever somebody made a "Batman and Robin," joke about her name because she had been hearing it all her life. And from my experience there are some benefits to being born on Christmas, you do get double the presents and you celebrate Christmas and your birthday all in one day, but the downside of it is that people comment about it because you have a birthday that sticks out. If I had a birthday on an ordinary day, such as July 15 (I don't know if July 15 means anything to anybody, its just a date I came up with at random that as far as I know isn't a holiday) than people would say nothing. But since my birthday is on a major holiday, I get comments about it often when somebody needs to know my DOB for whatever reason such as if Im buying age restricted products. It gets tiring after awhile. And there is a way to let people know that you don't like what they're doing and still be polite about it, thats what being tactful is all about.



So, what's Christmas? It means nothing to me.

You have people commenting on your birthday, you would prefer they were rude? that they said, stuff you sunshine? People are interacting with you because they want to be friendly and you are complaining? One day you may be very grateful someone spoke to you and you weren't invisible even if you don't particularly like the comments, you will be glad for the humanity of it.


----------



## PhotonGuy

Chris Parker said:


> And no, making a complaint "and still being polite" is not what it means to be tactful. At all.



Merriam-Webster defines tactful as, "careful not to offend or upset other people" and it appears to be something that you don't set a good example of, at least not with your posts in Martial Talk. So if that's not what it means to be tactful, than what does it mean?


----------



## PhotonGuy

Cirdan said:


> No you don`t and I doubt you can. As I have mentioned before letting go of your colossal ego would help with those.


As I said, Im not going to get into that because this is an argument I can refuse.


----------



## Tez3

PhotonGuy said:


> Merriam-Webster defines tactful as, "careful not to offend or upset other people" and it appears to be something that you don't set a good example of, at least not with your posts in Martial Talk. So if that's not what it means to be tactful, than what does it mean?



Try the Cambridge dictionary. "the ability to say or do the right thing without making anyone unhappy or angry: "

Everyone has been very tactful actually, it doesn't mean however we don't tell the truth. Sometimes it's inevitable that someone gets upset or angry because you have to tell the truth but there are tactful ways to say it. If you have to break the news of a death for example you don't go up to a woman and say 'oi missus your old man has just popped his clogs', you break the news tactfully. She's still going to be upset maybe even angry but you told her in as kind a way as possible. So when we speak to you we don't say 'look you stupid plonker wind your neck in, you're so up your own backside it's not funny' do we? we tell you in a polite way that you allow your ego to rule you.


----------



## Chris Parker

PhotonGuy said:


> As a matter of fact you were right, my birthday is on December 25th, Christmas Day.



No kidding&#8230; 



PhotonGuy said:


> And no, she did not call me any of the stuff that you mentioned.



Again, no kidding&#8230; not everyone is as witty as I am&#8230; 



PhotonGuy said:


> Rather she called me "Christmas baby," which I have heard before and I am quite sick of it. I am tired about people making comments about my birthday in general but I especially am tired of being called "Christmas baby."



That's not a name, you realise&#8230; it's an observation. You are a baby that was delivered on Christmas&#8230; a Christmas baby&#8230; you're not being "called" it, again, they're just making a connection themselves&#8230; 



PhotonGuy said:


> Sometimes people get fed up with stuff like that, I once knew this girl with the name Robin and she would get really fed up and offended whenever somebody made a "Batman and Robin," joke about her name because she had been hearing it all her life.



Yeah, and I get Christopher Robin, I get Peter Parker, I get crispy (Chris P.)&#8230; deal with it.

You got born on a noticeable day&#8230; and other people live unsure if they're going to eat that day or not&#8230; 



PhotonGuy said:


> And from my experience there are some benefits to being born on Christmas, you do get double the presents and you celebrate Christmas and your birthday all in one day, but the downside of it is that people comment about it because you have a birthday that sticks out. If I had a birthday on an ordinary day, such as July 15 (I don't know if July 15 means anything to anybody, its just a date I came up with at random that as far as I know isn't a holiday) than people would say nothing. But since my birthday is on a major holiday, I get comments about it often when somebody needs to know my DOB for whatever reason such as if Im buying age restricted products. It gets tiring after awhile.



None of that means anything.



PhotonGuy said:


> And there is a way to let people know that you don't like what they're doing and still be polite about it, thats what being tactful is all about.



No, it isn't. Being tactful is about understanding the social situation, and acting in a way that causes no, or minimalist disruption. Nothing you've suggested fits that bill.


----------



## Cirdan

PhotonGuy said:


> As I said, Im not going to get into that because this is an argument I can refuse.



Yes I can clearly see see that now, crystal. You make such a strong argument for not getting into an argument I really have to stand corrected.


----------



## Chris Parker

PhotonGuy said:


> Merriam-Webster defines tactful as, "careful not to offend or upset other people" and it appears to be something that you don't set a good example of, at least not with your posts in Martial Talk. So if that's not what it means to be tactful, than what does it mean?



Son, I'm not here to be tactful. I do strive to be so, within the needs of the communication itself, but my reason for being here is more about imparting advice and knowledge&#8230; that often requires more bluntness than tact, especially when dealing with certain mentalities displayed in the questioning. As far as the definition you gave, your action of making a complaint, when all the poor girl did was acknowledge your birthday, that is not you being careful not to offend of upset others, no matter how "polite" you think you're going to phrase it&#8230; that's the point. The very action you're considering is, by it's nature, not tactful. It's not quite tactless, but it's certainly not tactful.


----------



## Cirdan

Speaking of tactless people, who does this scrawny little brit John Oliver think he is, calling us proud Norwegians _freakish snow people_???
John Oliver Has A Plan To Save The 2022 Winter Olympics | SportsGrid

Tez, I suggest a trade. You will bring me this Oliver person, bound and gagged, and I will give you that norwegian athlete you fancy (forgot his name so please refresh my memory). I`ll have him bathed, perfumed and delivered to your tent naturally. Deal?


----------



## Tez3

Cirdan said:


> Speaking of tactless people, who does this scrawny little brit John Oliver think he is, calling us proud Norwegians _freakish snow people_???
> John Oliver Has A Plan To Save The 2022 Winter Olympics | SportsGrid
> 
> Tez, I suggest a trade. You will bring me this Oliver person, bound and gagged, and I will give you that norwegian athlete you fancy (forgot his name so please refresh my memory). I`ll have him bathed, perfumed and delivered to your tent naturally. Deal?



It says he's a 'well known' comedian here, just asking around no one has heard of him! Maybe that's why he's in America on a really crappy show! I'll get him though you needn't bother with the bathed perfume bit roflmao!

I adore the Winter Olympics, my husband loves watching it too and if it comes from Norway so much the better, I will shouting for the Norwegians in everything except the speed skating then I have to shout for the Dutch ( mum was Dutch). I assume this Oliver chap is doing what people who aren't successful at anything do, sneer at those who can. By the time the next Winter or even Summer Olympics have arrived he will be long long forgotten.


----------



## Cirdan

Tez3 said:


> It says he's a 'well known' comedian here, just asking around no one has heard of him! Maybe that's why he's in America on a really crappy show! I'll get him though you needn't bother with the bathed perfume bit roflmao!
> 
> I adore the Winter Olympics, my husband loves watching it too and if it comes from Norway so much the better, I will shouting for the Norwegians in everything except the speed skating then I have to shout for the Dutch ( mum was Dutch). I assume this Oliver chap is doing what people who aren't successful at anything do, sneer at those who can. By the time the next Winter or even Summer Olympics have arrived he will be long long forgotten.



Actually I have seen John Oliver before and he can be quite funny. Still we are going to beat him silly with tørrfisk (the "delicately fish-flavored norwegian baseball bat" as John Cleese put it) once we get our hands on him


----------



## PhotonGuy

Tez3 said:


> Try the Cambridge dictionary. "the ability to say or do the right thing without making anyone unhappy or angry: "
> 
> Everyone has been very tactful actually, it doesn't mean however we don't tell the truth. Sometimes it's inevitable that someone gets upset or angry because you have to tell the truth but there are tactful ways to say it. If you have to break the news of a death for example you don't go up to a woman and say 'oi missus your old man has just popped his clogs', you break the news tactfully. She's still going to be upset maybe even angry but you told her in as kind a way as possible. So when we speak to you we don't say 'look you stupid plonker wind your neck in, you're so up your own backside it's not funny' do we? we tell you in a polite way that you allow your ego to rule you.



OK I agree. And that's what Im posting about, telling people in a polite way that I don't like comments being made about by birthday or especially being called a "Christmas Baby." As you said, the truth can hurt well its the truth that I don't like such stuff said about my birthday because, frankly enough, it gets tiring after awhile. In your example where somebody dies and you have to spread the bad news, you don't say nothing do you? That's not being tactful is it? How about the girl I mentioned earlier who didn't like Batman and Robin jokes made about her name, should she just say nothing and take it?


----------



## PhotonGuy

Chris Parker said:


> None of that means anything.


And why doesn't it?


----------



## donald1

PhotonGuy said:


> I know all about what it means to shut up and train but Im not going to get into it because its an argument I can refuse.



I don't know about that,  it would be wise not to argue with someone...  Especially being in THEIR DOJO


----------



## PhotonGuy

Chris Parker said:


> Son, I'm not here to be tactful. I do strive to be so, within the needs of the communication itself, but my reason for being here is more about imparting advice and knowledge&#8230; that often requires more bluntness than tact, especially when dealing with certain mentalities displayed in the questioning. As far as the definition you gave, your action of making a complaint, when all the poor girl did was acknowledge your birthday, that is not you being careful not to offend of upset others, no matter how "polite" you think you're going to phrase it&#8230; that's the point. The very action you're considering is, by it's nature, not tactful. It's not quite tactless, but it's certainly not tactful.



There are ways to be blunt and still not offend people or make them upset or angry. I like Cambridge definition of what it means to be tactful given by Tez3. How you act on this board, not just towards me but towards other people as well, you sometimes say stuff that can really set people off and there is no reason to say some of the stuff you do. You can make your point without saying some of the stuff you say which might be offensive. And besides, I thought there were rules here against such stuff.


----------



## donald1

Chris Parker said:


> I have no interest in any attention to my birthday.



I know birthdays serve no significant importance, but why not they make people happy


----------



## donald1

PhotonGuy said:


> There are ways to be blunt and still not offend people or make them upset or angry. I like Cambridge definition of what it means to be tactful given by Tez3. How you act on this board, not just towards me but towards other people as well, you sometimes say stuff that can really set people off and there is no reason to say some of the stuff you do. You can make your point without saying some of the stuff you say which might be offensive. And besides, I thought there were rules here against such stuff.



I both agree and disagree,  I too don't like it when hearing many blunt points sure does knock an ego down right to the core but things are what they are facts don't change.  Now there are times where blunt answers should not be mentioned but most of the time it can be helpful.  What seems offensive is just some of these people posting their knowledge, and experience 
Best of luck


----------



## Tez3

I live in Yorkshire where they are as blunt as they come plus I've been in then worked with the military for over forty years, trust me, no one here not even Chris is as blunt as anyone of them lol. 
Ego, now there's a thing, I either don't have one or it's so huge it's indestructible, only once have I been appalled at something someone wrote here, it wasn't to do with martial arts, it was political. Appalled though, not ego busted, not shattered just appalled someone could be so ignorant, tasteless and stupid frankly. I also believe that person was trying to be provocative, now no one on here has been any of that. I think tact has been to the fore front of everyone's post's perhaps tinged with exasperation at times because it's hard to keep watching someone making the same mistake over and over again, insisting they are right when common sense, knowledge and experience tells you that this is against everything you know to be true. 
Oh and if you want real bluntness try the Cagewarriors forum, totally uncensored and has some very funny people on with their own unique brand of humour and expressions, definitely leave the ego behind for that one!


----------



## donald1

Tez3 said:


> I live in Yorkshire where they are as blunt as they come plus I've been in then worked with the military for over forty years, trust me, no one here not even Chris is as blunt as anyone of them lol.
> Ego, now there's a thing, I either don't have one or it's so huge it's indestructible, only once have I been appalled at something someone wrote here, it wasn't to do with martial arts, it was political. Appalled though, not ego busted, not shattered just appalled someone could be so ignorant, tasteless and stupid frankly. I also believe that person was trying to be provocative, now no one on here has been any of that. I think tact has been to the fore front of everyone's post's perhaps tinged with exasperation at times because it's hard to keep watching someone making the same mistake over and over again, insisting they are right when common sense, knowledge and experience tells you that this is against everything you know to be true.
> Oh and if you want real bluntness try the Cagewarriors forum, totally uncensored and has some very funny people on with their own unique brand of humour and expressions, definitely leave the ego behind for that one!



Exactly,  ego up in the clouds and can only go up,  or maybe I'm just oblivious...  And a poor listener but none the less its nice having a big ego


----------



## Dirty Dog

PhotonGuy said:


> It is not a good idea if you ask me is to give in because you want to be polite. For instance, I've said before how if you don't want to shake hands you shouldn't shake hands because you've got that right and for whatever reason, you might not want to shake hands. I takled about telling the person to put their hand back but I know its also important to be tactful, that means to be polite but still stand your ground. If you shake hands when you don't want to that is not being tactful, its giving in and its being a doormat. And martial artists don't shake hands but that's beside the point. Being tactful would be to say something like, "I don't shake hands," instead of just telling the person to put their hand back and coming across as offensive. This is important because I was really ticked off at this woman at Walmart. I was buying an age restricted product so she needed to know my DOB and she commented about my birthday. You see, I've got this birthday that is bound to get comments. I also think I should get special treatment because of my birthday but that is beside the point. (That last sentence was not meant to be taken seriously.) Anyway, I was very much offended about her comment about my birthday. Some people, lots of people might say I get too easily offended by the wrong stuff, and that might be so but it is what it is. As much as I was tempted to yell in her face at her at the top of my lungs, "DON'T (expletive) COMMENT ABOUT MY BIRTHDAY YOU STUPID (expletive)!" (I didn't do that by the way) I would be much better off to say something such as "Please don't comment about my birthday, I really don't appreciate it." So the key is to be firm but courteous. Don't allow people to cross certain lines but do so nicely. And also to use magic words such as please and thank you.
> 
> As it is, though, I am still thinking of going back and complaining to management about her. This is a really nice Walmart located in Pahrump, NV, and I often go shopping there when Im taking classes at FrontSight so I might not do that, but Im still considering it.



Wow. Whiny much?



PhotonGuy said:


> In the far east, where many of the martial arts originated, they don't shake hands, they bow. Therefore, perhaps martial artists should bow instead of shaking hands, just a thought.
> 
> And I've been putting up with comments about my birthday all my life. You get sick and tired of it after awhile. Everybody has a breaking point.



I think you've been broken for a long long time.



PhotonGuy said:


> I am easily offended about some things, yes, but it is surprising what people can be offended about. Especially today people take all sorts of innocent comments to mean racial connotations to mention one example.



And I bet you're completely oblivious to the irony of you whining about people being racial sensitive in the same thread where you post about your desire to be a complete and utter douchnozzle to the clerk at WalMart.



PhotonGuy said:


> If she is treated like dirt in her job, well she made the choice to take the job in the first place. I didn't make her work at Walmart and neither did anybody else for that matter. And from my experience people in retail are not treated like dirt and I worked at a retail store that was part of a chain of a major hardware corporation. All day long I would help customers load their stuff into their cars, push back shopping wagons from the parking lot, and do other such stuff. Most of the people were very grateful for my help and I even got tipped several times even though we weren't supposed to be tipped. It was a hard job, pushing around wagons and lifting and moving heavy stuff out in the hot sun all day, but it was not the customers that gave me a hard time. So no, from my experience people in retail are not treated like dirt.
> 
> And yes politeness is important but you still got to make a complaint if you've got a complaint. You can make a complaint and still be polite, that's what it means to be tactful.



Or, alternatively, you could grow up and stop being such a whiny baby.



PhotonGuy said:


> I know all about what it means to shut up and train but Im not going to get into it because its an argument I can refuse.



And obviously you do refuse.



PhotonGuy said:


> As a matter of fact you were right, my birthday is on December 25th, Christmas Day. And no, she did not call me any of the stuff that you mentioned. Rather she called me "Christmas baby," which I have heard before and I am quite sick of it. I am tired about people making comments about my birthday in general but I especially am tired of being called "Christmas baby." Sometimes people get fed up with stuff like that, I once knew this girl with the name Robin and she would get really fed up and offended whenever somebody made a "Batman and Robin," joke about her name because she had been hearing it all her life. And from my experience there are some benefits to being born on Christmas, you do get double the presents and you celebrate Christmas and your birthday all in one day, but the downside of it is that people comment about it because you have a birthday that sticks out. If I had a birthday on an ordinary day, such as July 15 (I don't know if July 15 means anything to anybody, its just a date I came up with at random that as far as I know isn't a holiday) than people would say nothing. But since my birthday is on a major holiday, I get comments about it often when somebody needs to know my DOB for whatever reason such as if Im buying age restricted products. It gets tiring after awhile. And there is a way to let people know that you don't like what they're doing and still be polite about it, thats what being tactful is all about.



Or, alternatively, you could grow up and stop being such a whiny baby.



PhotonGuy said:


> There are ways to be blunt and still not offend people or make them upset or angry. I like Cambridge definition of what it means to be tactful given by Tez3. How you act on this board, not just towards me but towards other people as well, you sometimes say stuff that can really set people off and there is no reason to say some of the stuff you do. You can make your point without saying some of the stuff you say which might be offensive. And besides, I thought there were rules here against such stuff.



Here's some blunt for you, and no more offensive that what you've written.
Grow up. Seek professional help with your plethora of personality and developmental issues. One of my brothers was born on December 24th. We *still* make Christmas Baby comments. And you know what? He actually manages to be an adult about it. Never whines. Never cries. Never screams at clerks...


----------



## Tez3

Just a thought, if you are being asked your age to purchase things you aren't as old as you told us are you?


----------



## Buka

Interesting thing about the day of the year we were born. If you have 70 people in a room, there is over a 99% probability that at least two of them will have the same day of the year as their birthday. Try it all you want, I have yet to see it fail. I always find that really interesting, but, I'm easily amused.

Perhaps a different tactic to take when a gal mentions you're a Christmas baby is to reply kinda like this, "Santa told me I'll someday be a present for a beautiful woman like yourself." If she IS beautiful, she just might remember you or at least take notice. If she isn't beautiful, you just might make her day. It's always nice to make someone's day. It usually makes you feel better, too.


----------



## granfire

Tez3 said:


> Just a thought, if you are being asked your age to purchase things you aren't as old as you told us are you?



Or you don't look as old.

Makes my day, he akward smile....then I grin broadly...
Until of course they tell you 'we card everybody' :lol:


----------



## Hong Kong Pooey

PhotonGuy said:


> There are 375 days in a year



As no-one else has mentioned it yet, I feel the need to point out that there are only 365 days in a year or 366 if it's a leap year.

That's assuming you live on the same planet as the rest of us of course.


----------



## Cirdan

Hong Kong Pooey said:


> As no-one else has mentioned it yet, I feel the need to point out that there are only 365 days in a year or 366 if it's a leap year.
> 
> That's assuming you live on the same planet as the rest of us of course.



I already assumed he lives on Bizarroworld, with a big #1 necklace around his neck.


----------



## donald1

Cirdan said:


> I already assumed he lives on Bizarroworld, with a big #1 necklace around his neck.



No...  I have the necklace


----------



## Transk53

I started to read the thread, well I read some of it. Then seeing that Yorkshire was mentioned (my nan hailed from Richmond), PG please stay well clear. Even I still shudder with her strength of spirit and bearing. Has some Quantum Torpedoes as well.


----------



## Cirdan

donald1 said:


> No...  I have the necklace



Naaa.. you are much too sane. Even a freakish snow person can see that. :lol:


----------



## Hong Kong Pooey

PhotonGuy said:


> As a matter of fact you were right, my birthday is on December 25th, Christmas Day. And no, she did not call me any of the stuff that you mentioned. Rather she called me "Christmas baby," which I have heard before and I am quite sick of it. I am tired about people making comments about my birthday in general but I especially am tired of being called "Christmas baby." Sometimes people get fed up with stuff like that, I once knew this girl with the name Robin and she would get really fed up and offended whenever somebody made a "Batman and Robin," joke about her name because she had been hearing it all her life. And from my experience there are some benefits to being born on Christmas, you do get double the presents and you celebrate Christmas and your birthday all in one day, but the downside of it is that people comment about it because you have a birthday that sticks out. If I had a birthday on an ordinary day, such as July 15 (I don't know if July 15 means anything to anybody, its just a date I came up with at random that as far as I know isn't a holiday) than people would say nothing. But since my birthday is on a major holiday, I get comments about it often when somebody needs to know my DOB for whatever reason such as if Im buying age restricted products. It gets tiring after awhile. And there is a way to let people know that you don't like what they're doing and still be polite about it, thats what being tactful is all about.



Can I just clarify a few things please?

You do realise that when you were born on Christmas Day, at that time you were an actual baby?

And that is what people are referring to when they say Christmas baby?

 And that no-one is actually suggesting you are a baby now when they make the CB comment?

It's only when you start these threads about how offended you are by some banal, mundane and entirely trivial aspects of everyday life and basic human interactions that people on here feel the need to call you a baby, as Dirty Dog so eloquently demonstrated!


----------



## Hong Kong Pooey

One more question please...

We've covered the being tactful part, but I haven't seen any reference to the magic words you mentioned in the title and I'm terribly curious to know what they might be?

Abracadabra? Alakazam?


----------



## Tony Dismukes

Cirdan said:


> Speaking of tactless people, who does this scrawny little brit John Oliver think he is, calling us proud Norwegians _freakish snow people_???
> John Oliver Has A Plan To Save The 2022 Winter Olympics | SportsGrid
> 
> Tez, I suggest a trade. You will bring me this Oliver person, bound and gagged, and I will give you that norwegian athlete you fancy (forgot his name so please refresh my memory). I`ll have him bathed, perfumed and delivered to your tent naturally. Deal?



John Oliver has lived in the U.S. for some years now, so it's no good negotiating with Tez for his delivery. You'll have to offer something to one of us Yanks. I'm a big fan of his, so you'll have to offer me something really good in exchange.


----------



## Cirdan

Tony Dismukes said:


> John Oliver has lived in the U.S. for some years now, so it's no good negotiating with Tez for his delivery. You'll have to offer something to one of us Yanks. I'm a big fan of his, so you'll have to offer me something really good in exchange.



Hoo-kay. How `bout a barrel of lutefisk and a crash course in Viking Berzerker Fighting? Guaranteed BB test in a seedy strip bar as the final lesson.


----------



## donald1

Hong Kong Pooey said:


> One more question please...
> 
> We've covered the being tactful part, but I haven't seen any reference to the magic words you mentioned in the title and I'm terribly curious to know what they might be?
> 
> Abracadabra? Alakazam?



Hocus pocus,  tontus tabantus, vade celeriter jubeo!  :lfao:

If magic is what we're talking about then;
One coin here, one coin there Prosperity is everywhere I need some wealth, Financial health I just need my share


----------



## elder999

PhotonGuy said:


> As a matter of fact you were right, my birthday is on December 25th, Christmas Day..



Big deal. Try Feb. 29th. I've got a friend from elementary school who has had all of 13 actual birthdays since he was born.

We're both 54, but you could say Bob is only 13.....:lfao:

"Photon": low mass/high energy....or, if you prefer, _* no* substance, big flash._ :lfao:


----------



## jezr74

For what it's worth PG, I like your posts, some are from different perspectives than me. 

I honestly don't understand why people are getting worked up over them.


----------



## Dirty Dog

elder999 said:


> Big deal. Try Feb. 29th. I've got a friend from elementary school who has had all of 13 actual birthdays since he was born.
> 
> We're both 54, but you could say Bob is only 13.....:lfao:
> 
> "Photon": low mass/high energy....or, if you prefer, _* no* substance, big flash._ :lfao:



One of my (eight) grandchildren is a Leap Baby. And just like my brother is still called a Christmas Baby, I expect he'll be called a Leaper all his life. And if he gets snippy about it, his grandpa will tweak his ear a bit...


----------



## Tez3

jezr74 said:


> For what it's worth PG, I like your posts, some are from different perspectives than me.
> 
> I honestly don't understand why people are getting worked up over them.




We aren't getting 'worked up' just answering them. To get 'worked up' would imply more interest than we actually have. What happens is he posts something up, usually a question, we answer, he reiterates what he's said before, we answer, he carries on repeating inaccuracies so we tell him again.
In this instance he was being rude about a probably very nice hard working lady who had the misfortune to be nice to him. I have a friend in hospital missing half a lung now as tumours were removed, he's cracking jokes, bad ones, on FB he's not shimphing about a shop assistant so yes Photon does get a bit of stick, we aren't a bunch of people who want to hear people's little moans and groans about what goes on in their head.


----------



## Chris Parker

PhotonGuy said:


> And why doesn't it?



Because none of it meant anything at all it's your personal experience, but has no bearing whatsoever on the topic, your behaviour, your approach, and so on.

The world is not about you.



PhotonGuy said:


> There are ways to be blunt and still not offend people or make them upset or angry. I like Cambridge definition of what it means to be tactful given by Tez3. How you act on this board, not just towards me but towards other people as well, you sometimes say stuff that can really set people off and there is no reason to say some of the stuff you do. You can make your point without saying some of the stuff you say which might be offensive. And besides, I thought there were rules here against such stuff.



Yeah you really miss the point of not only what I say, but how I say it I'm blunt when I feel that it's necessary to get a point across but here's the point. Tact does not equal being polite nor does it equal complaining when it was an over-reaction to something that, frankly, was meant to be friendly tact is based on an understanding of the social situation which is something that you are showing no grasp of whatsoever.

As far as my behaviour on this board, you might want to look a little closer at what I say and how you respond. I mean, you've made how many veiled attacks on myself? And yes, there are rules but you seem to miss them yourself a fair bit.



donald1 said:


> I know birthdays serve no significant importance, but why not they make people happy



Eh, it's just not a special day to me I have no issues with others celebrating theirs, I just have no interest in wasting the effort with mine, that's all (well there's more, but it's thoroughly unimportant here).


----------



## jezr74

It's more about PG posts in general. He seems to get pounced on fast. And some of the reason's seem trivial to me.

This post, I personally would not be putting in a complaint to management.


----------



## Tez3

jezr74 said:


> It's more about PG posts in general. He seems to get pounced on fast. And some of the reason's seem trivial to me.
> 
> This post, I personally would not be putting in a complaint to management.



Perhaps it's the feeling that we are being used or perhaps even played. He isn't pounced on that fast, looking at the posts this has been going on for a while and all the initial replies were helpful and kind, then when all the same things were being asked people got less patient.


----------



## Hong Kong Pooey

jezr74 said:


> For what it's worth PG, I like your posts, some are from different perspectives than me.
> 
> I honestly don't understand why people are getting worked up over them.



I too am a fan of his work and find some of the threads he starts and the responses they elicit highly entertaining. I hope he continues to grace us with his presence and provide valuable insights into his unique perspective of how the world should be.

This is my personal favourite, so far:

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/29-locker-room-bar-grill/116132-requirements-having-names.html


----------



## elder999

Hong Kong Pooey said:


> I too am a fan of his work and find some of the threads he starts and the responses they elicit highly entertaining. I hope he continues to grace us with his presence and provide valuable insights into his unique perspective of how the world should be.
> 
> This is my personal favourite, so far:
> 
> http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/29-locker-room-bar-grill/116132-requirements-having-names.html



Yeah....._good times!_ :lfao:


----------



## Carol

Buka said:


> Interesting thing about the day of the year we were born. If you have 70 people in a room, there is over a 99% probability that at least two of them will have the same day of the year as their birthday. Try it all you want, I have yet to see it fail. I always find that really interesting, but, I'm easily amused.
> 
> Perhaps a different tactic to take when a gal mentions you're a Christmas baby is to reply kinda like this, "Santa told me I'll someday be a present for a beautiful woman like yourself." If she IS beautiful, she just might remember you or at least take notice. If she isn't beautiful, you just might make her day. It's always nice to make someone's day. It usually makes you feel better, too.




Turning a negative in to a positive can be a very cool thing.   I hated my name and birthday growing up.  My parents were WWII generation, and Carol was a rather trendy name....during their day, but not now.   If we sang Christmas carols in class or in church, I got a fair amount of grief from that....but it seemed to be worse at home, as my mother would proclaim "You're our Christmas Carol!" over and over again.

But getting older, my view changed. Today, unfortunately, I had to take a dear friend to the hospital after she injured herself while hiking with me.   At one point ere must have been at least two other ladies named "Jennifer" within earshot, including one of the nurses.   So every time I would hear "Jennifer" or "Jenn" being spoken I would bolt upright, only to realize they were not talking about us.   That's not the case with a name like "Carol".  It's unusual, but not so odd that people trip over saying it.

I turned my mother's saying in to an icebreaker and mnemonic.  I have Hibernian looks, so If I meet someone new - especially at a party or gathering where many strangers are getting to know one another  - I'll often say something like "Carol. As in, Irish Christmas Carol".   It's a little smoother than "Carol the redhead" 




Sent from my tinfoil hat.


----------



## ballen0351

Carol said:


> Turning a negative in to a positive can be a very cool thing.   I hated my name and birthday growing up.  My parents were WWII generation, and Carol was a rather trendy name....during their day, but not now.   If we sang Christmas carols in class or in church, I got a fair amount of grief from that....but it seemed to be worse at home, as my mother would proclaim "You're our Christmas Carol!" over and over again.
> 
> But getting older, my view changed. Today, unfortunately, I had to take a dear friend to the hospital after she injured herself while hiking with me.   At one point ere must have been at least two other ladies named "Jennifer" within earshot, including one of the nurses.   So every time I would hear "Jennifer" or "Jenn" being spoken I would bolt upright, only to realize they were not talking about us.   That's not the case with a name like "Carol".  It's unusual, but not so odd that people trip over saying it.
> 
> I turned my mother's saying in to an icebreaker and mnemonic.  I have Hibernian looks, so If I meet someone new - especially at a party or gathering where many strangers are getting to know one another  - I'll often say something like "Carol. As in, Irish Christmas Carol".   It's a little smoother than "Carol the redhead"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my tinfoil hat.



My first name is Ben do you know how many "Ben Gay" jokes I got growing up.  On a funny side note we call one of our co-workers Carol.  His first day on the street he gets sent to a DOA call and the woman's name was Carol.  He was trying to be compassionate to the family and ju st kept making strange comments to them using her name over and over.  Things like "Carol was taken too soon."  "Carol was loved"  "Carol will be missed"  He never met her a day in his life and spoke like she raised him so he's now and forever known as Carol.


----------



## ballen0351

Speaking of annoying comments when will people realize  "I didn't do it" or "he's over there" is said to me 20 times a day when I walk into any place of business to get a drink or lunch or for what ever while Im in uniform.  Your not funny or witty.  Also on the off chance the girl where I get my coffee (you know who you are) is reading this you say "It was me" EVERY SINGLE TIME I walk in its going on years now PLEASE get some new material


----------



## Dirty Dog

ballen0351 said:


> Speaking of annoying comments when will people realize  "I didn't do it" or "he's over there" is said to me 20 times a day when I walk into any place of business to get a drink or lunch or for what ever while Im in uniform.  Your not funny or witty.  Also on the off chance the girl where I get my coffee (you know who you are) is reading this you say "It was me" EVERY SINGLE TIME I walk in its going on years now PLEASE get some new material



It wasn't me...


----------



## ballen0351

Dirty Dog said:


> It wasn't me...



Are there any stupid "jokes" people say to you 10 times a day?  I'm sure there must be.  People are sp proud of themselves  like they are the first ones to ever say it.


----------



## donald1

I don't know,  don't pay attention enough to notice but I do hear this often; it's not my fault (random excuse)


----------



## Gnarlie

People often comment on my name because it is clearly not German, and is similar to that of a well known alcoholic beverage. Which is fine, it gives us something to talk about. I've become an expert in manipulating small talk away from that topic to any other that you might care to name. I like that it gives me a practiced starting point.


----------



## PhotonGuy

There is nothing wrong to say whats on your mind if you do it the right way such as using magic words such as please and thank you, they're called magic words for a reason.


----------



## Tez3

PhotonGuy said:


> There is nothing wrong to say whats on your mind if you do it the right way such as using magic words such as please and thank you, they're called magic words for a reason.



Who calls them magic words? they should be everyday words.


----------



## Carol

Tez3 said:


> Who calls them magic words? they should be everyday words.



Its pre-school talk.  A young child might ask for or receive something without saying please or thank you -- example, "May I go outside?"   A parent may tell the child to "use the magic words" as a gentle reminder and the child would be expected to restate their request "May I go outside, please?"  

Handy nudge for the little ones but certainly not something that would be part of adult conversation.


----------



## PhotonGuy

Tez3 said:


> Who calls them magic words? they should be everyday words.



I agree. They should be magic words that are used every day.


----------



## PhotonGuy

Carol said:


> Its pre-school talk.  A young child might ask for or receive something without saying please or thank you -- example, "May I go outside?"   A parent may tell the child to "use the magic words" as a gentle reminder and the child would be expected to restate their request "May I go outside, please?"
> 
> Handy nudge for the little ones but certainly not something that would be part of adult conversation.



Calling them magic words might not be something for adult conversation but using words such as please and thank you should be included in adult conversation. Please and thank you definitely are adult words that should be taught at a young age, as soon as a child can talk but they shouldn't stop using them in adulthood either.


----------



## jezr74

PhotonGuy said:


> Calling them magic words might not be something for adult conversation but using words such as please and thank you should be included in adult conversation. Please and thank you definitely are adult words that should be taught at a young age, as soon as a child can talk but they shouldn't stop using them in adulthood either.



Keep in mind it's a cultural thing. In some cultures and countries it's not required or expected. I think professionally as well it has it's time and place.


----------



## Dirty Dog

PhotonGuy said:


> There is nothing wrong to say whats on your mind if you do it the right way such as using magic words such as please and thank you, they're called magic words for a reason.



If you're 4 years old, then they might be called that. I'm pretty sure we don't have any members that young.


----------



## Cirdan

Tez3 said:


> Who calls them magic words? they should be everyday words.



It is just a reminder for us rude by nature non-brits so we don`t forget the finer points of polite conversation inherrent in the Queen`s english


----------



## Tez3

When I lived in Aberdeen we had lots of Norwegians living, working and visiting there as it's actually quite close to Norway, they were always very polite! My friend went out with a Norwegian fisherman and we were very jealous because he was lovely. 
My shift partner had spent a lot of time in Norway when he was in the army at the arctic warfare training place, he said in the local town the women used to go shopping and then put their shopping bags at the bus stop and go off and have a cup of coffee or lunch, when they'd finished they'd come back to catch their bus and the shopping was always untouched. He loved Norway and the people, his best mate married a local lass there and stayed in Norway, I've never heard any serviceman who spent time there say he didn't enjoy it. And of course I will never forget the way the people of Norway did their best to protect their Jewish citizens during the Nazi Occupation, that and their resistance fighters.


----------



## Cirdan

Tez3 said:


> When I lived in Aberdeen we had lots of Norwegians living, working and visiting there as it's actually quite close to Norway, they were always very polite! My friend went out with a Norwegian fisherman and we were very jealous because he was lovely.
> My shift partner had spent a lot of time in Norway when he was in the army at the arctic warfare training place, he said in the local town the women used to go shopping and then put their shopping bags at the bus stop and go off and have a cup of coffee or lunch, when they'd finished they'd come back to catch their bus and the shopping was always untouched. He loved Norway and the people, his best mate married a local lass there and stayed in Norway, I've never heard any serviceman who spent time there say he didn't enjoy it. And of course I will never forget the way the people of Norway did their best to protect their Jewish citizens during the Nazi Occupation, that and their resistance fighters.



Thanks Tez. Yes despite our rugged viking-ness we Norwegians are actually a pretty civilized people. Most of the time anyway...


----------



## Zero

PhotonGuy said:


> As a matter of fact you were right, my birthday is on December 25th, Christmas Day. And no, she did not call me any of the stuff that you mentioned. Rather she called me "Christmas baby," which I have heard before and I am quite sick of it. I am tired about people making comments about my birthday in general but I especially am tired of being called "Christmas baby." Sometimes people get fed up with stuff like that, I once knew this girl with the name Robin and she would get really fed up and offended whenever somebody made a "Batman and Robin," joke about her name because she had been hearing it all her life. And from my experience there are some benefits to being born on Christmas, you do get double the presents and you celebrate Christmas and your birthday all in one day, but the downside of it is that people comment about it because you have a birthday that sticks out. If I had a birthday on an ordinary day, such as July 15 (I don't know if July 15 means anything to anybody, its just a date I came up with at random that as far as I know isn't a holiday) than people would say nothing. But since my birthday is on a major holiday, I get comments about it often when somebody needs to know my DOB for whatever reason such as if Im buying age restricted products. It gets tiring after awhile. And there is a way to let people know that you don't like what they're doing and still be polite about it, thats what being tactful is all about.



Christmas Baby?  Has a nice ring to it if you ask me, in fact it sounds lovely. Seriously, I wouldn't mind being called a Christmas baby by some bird on the shop counter.  How could that get you down?  Even if you don't celebrate Christmas (or the equivalent in whatever culture you are from that is not on 25 Dec), what is the big downer having a DOB that makes some check-out girl happy or feel like actually engaging with you as another human being?  

Why don't you go back and ask the girl out on a date and do the normal thing?  Actually, scratch that.  Do the girl a favour, don't go back. On a serious note, unless you are right now dying from a terminal disease or someone is trying to kill you (both which would suck and if so, sorry), life is all good and it's all gravy.  So cheer up and chill out.

Also, why is shaking someone's hand "giving in to them"?  Particularly if it is done as a genuine greeting or display of cordiality in or outside of a MA environment? You lost me on that one too.   

There is a lot of gold in this post PhotonGuy and I am sorry to only be discovering it now.


----------



## Zero

PhotonGuy said:


> There is nothing wrong to say whats on your mind if you do it the right way such as using magic words such as please and thank you, they're called magic words for a reason.


Sometimes even saying what is on your mind and while employing those said magic words can still be wrong depending on the context.  

A well-adjusted social barometer is probably going to be of more value to you than rattling off whatever is on your mind and peppering it with Ps&Qs, such as "terribly sorry but could you please kindly get rid of that abomination on the wall you have slaved over for six months and that you call art, it looks more like some feline emetic discharge, thank you and tatty-bye-bye".


----------



## Zero

Chris Parker said:


> going back to it to say how you don't want any focus is really just bringing focus back to it, you know which really just says that it is something you want to bring attention to (as does this entire thread, bluntly, despite your protestations) .


Chris, while I sometimes think you have the odd wacked-out-koryu view on things, you have always struck my as quite astute.  That observation right there is a gem and perhaps you have been packing in that psychology study after all.


----------



## Tony Dismukes

Zero said:


> Sometimes even saying what is on your mind and while employing those said magic words can still be wrong depending on the context.
> 
> A well-adjusted social barometer is probably going to be of more value to you than rattling off whatever is on your mind and peppering it with Ps&Qs, such as "terribly sorry but could you please kindly get rid of that abomination on the wall you have slaved over for six months and that you call art, it looks more like some feline emetic discharge, thank you and tatty-bye-bye".



Yeah, intuitively understanding other people is a lot more valuable than any list of magic words or do's and don'ts or concrete rules. This is part of what makes social interaction tricky for those who are not socially gifted and even more so for the non-neurotypical. (Thus Temple Grandin's analogy of being an anthropologist on Mars.)


----------



## jezr74

When my family moved to Boston for two years, we couldn't believe how polite everyone was. (Genuine and in-genuine)

At work, my team consisted of and Aussie (me), a Brit, two Scots, an Irishman and three locals. They spent most of our meetings blushing and looking away they were so appalled with our language. Took us a while to even realize, eventually they came down to our level and learnt some new magic words.


----------



## Chris Parker

Zero said:


> Chris, while I sometimes think you have the odd wacked-out-koryu view on things, you have always struck my as quite astute.  That observation right there is a gem and perhaps you have been packing in that psychology study after all.



Ha, "whacked-out Koryu view"&#8230; you do know what Koryu I train, yeah&#8230;? And who the quote is from in your signature&#8230;? 

To be clear here, I have no problem with your comments, I just find them amusing&#8230; this is all said with a smile.


----------



## Zero

Chris Parker said:


> Ha, "whacked-out Koryu view"&#8230; you do know what Koryu I train, yeah&#8230;? And who the quote is from in your signature&#8230;?
> 
> To be clear here, I have no problem with your comments, I just find them amusing&#8230; this is all said with a smile.


Hehe, all said with full respect and in gest my good man!  Although sometimes we do have differing views on certain techniques but that is all good.  Very much aware of the chap whose quote I am referencing but no doubt not at all to the levels you are.  I checked out your website many moons back but don't recall it referencing any specific Koryu.  Which one is it (although I should probably know from your somewhat leading query)?  If your head teacher is Hatsumi, then that could include several as I understand it.


----------



## Mauthos

I don't know what all the fuss is about, I was born on the 7/7/77 and all through my life as soon as anyone learns that I get the comments that I must be lucky, what an unusual birthday etc. Never worried about it just smile and laugh along with them, its only an observation from someone trying to be interested in you for all of 5 minutes.

Now another thing is my last name is Gladwyn-Ball, apart from being told I must be loaded as I have a double barrelled name (unfortunately I am not) it used to get shortened to Ball when I was at School. Therefore, I was known as ball-less, ballbag, dirty balls and any other iteration all through my school life, irritating, yes, but nothing to get upset or angry about.  It was just one of those things that happens as kids of all ages will find someway to take the mickey out of your name if they can.

Even my career in the RAF I was commonly known as Gladis (from the Gladwyn part) to the point that when my then girlfriend phoned for me once and asked for me by my first name the phone was handed to another guy sharing my name as no one actually knew what my first name was. The point is, there is no reason in getting offended by it, people show interest all the time, mainly to be nice and generally to people they like. Normally, if they don't like the look of you appearance wise or your attitude they won't waste time mentioning anything to you at all.

Just my opinion


----------



## Tez3

Mauthos said:


> I don't know what all the fuss is about, I was born on the 7/7/77 and all through my life as soon as anyone learns that I get the comments that I must be lucky, what an unusual birthday etc. Never worried about it just smile and laugh along with them, its only an observation from someone trying to be interested in you for all of 5 minutes.
> 
> Now another thing is my last name is Gladwyn-Ball, apart from being told I must be loaded as I have a double barrelled name (unfortunately I am not) it used to get shortened to Ball when I was at School. Therefore, I was known as ball-less, ballbag, dirty balls and any other iteration all through my school life, irritating, yes, but nothing to get upset or angry about.  It was just one of those things that happens as kids of all ages will find someway to take the mickey out of your name if they can.
> 
> Even my career in the RAF I was commonly known as Gladis (from the Gladwyn part) to the point that when my then girlfriend phoned for me once and asked for me by my first name the phone was handed to another guy sharing my name as no one actually knew what my first name was. The point is, there is no reason in getting offended by it, people show interest all the time, mainly to be nice and generally to people they like. Normally, if they don't like the look of you appearance wise or your attitude they won't waste time mentioning anything to you at all.
> 
> Just my opinion



Were you a Guin or a Rock lol?


----------



## PhotonGuy

Zero said:


> Christmas Baby?  Has a nice ring to it if you ask me, in fact it sounds lovely. Seriously, I wouldn't mind being called a Christmas baby by some bird on the shop counter.  How could that get you down?



I don't like being called that because Im not a baby, and it does get tiresome. Just like this girl who I knew whose name was Robin, she didn't like it when people made Batman and Robin jokes about her name, she had been hearing that all her life and she was tired of it and if you did make such a joke she would let you know that it was aggravating.


----------



## Tez3

PhotonGuy said:


> I don't like being called that because Im not a baby, and it does get tiresome. Just like this girl who I knew whose name was Robin, she didn't like it when people made Batman and Robin jokes about her name, she had been hearing that all her life and she was tired of it and if you did make such a joke she would let you know that it was aggravating.



People are dying from Ebola, people are starving, being kidnapped, there's FGM, there's murders, rapes, child abuse, people are suffering all over the world and you are worried about something nice someone said to you. 

GET OVER IT.


----------



## Chris Parker

PhotonGuy said:


> I don't like being called that because Im not a baby, and it does get tiresome. Just like this girl who I knew whose name was Robin, she didn't like it when people made Batman and Robin jokes about her name, she had been hearing that all her life and she was tired of it and if you did make such a joke she would let you know that it was aggravating.



And, for the sixth time, you were not being called a baby&#8230; it was observed that you were born at Christmas&#8230; i.e. a baby that came at Christmas&#8230; not that you're currently a baby&#8230; 

And yeah, get over it. You're too invested in your own internal false reality to be able to see anything outside of your head&#8230; and, as long as you remain that way, you'll always have these issues. Recognise that there are other people in the world, and the way you see things is not necessarily the reality. Then get over it.


----------



## Transk53

PhotonGuy said:


> I don't like being called that because Im not a baby, and it does get tiresome. Just like this girl who I knew whose name was Robin, she didn't like it when people made Batman and Robin jokes about her name, she had been hearing that all her life and she was tired of it and if you did make such a joke she would let you know that it was aggravating.



Being called baby can have other connotations, so you will probably here that one throughout life wherever you are. The others are right, the world is going to ***** and is at a worrying stage for me personally, but still. Jokes should be used as a positive, even if they seem to be derogatory.


----------



## Cirdan

Six weeks since you almost screamed in someone`s face for trying to be nice to you and still very much grumpy about it I see. 

Are you really no better than that??


----------



## Tez3

Talking of Christmas, Cirdan, I've just seen a picture of Norway's Christmas tree to us being cut down prior to being sent to London. Thank you. The significance of this is important, it's not a frivolity, more important for sure than fretting over being called a Christmas baby.


----------



## Cirdan

Indeed Tez, we will keep sending you christmas trees as a symbol of our friendship and gratitude for all the help and support during WW2. I see the tree was cut down by your Lord Mayor Audrey Lewis and our Mayor Fabian Stang yesterday, and will be lit two weeks from now in Trafalgar Square. I look out the window right now and the first snow is in the air, christmas-y already


----------



## Tez3

I don't celebrate Christmas but celebrating freedom, friendship and comradeship in times of adversity are so important. Thinking of others before oneself is a noble aspiration,  a good way to live, whinging about kind comments made to oneself is mean spirited.


----------



## Cirdan

Tez3 said:


> I don't celebrate Christmas but celebrating freedom, friendship and comradeship in times of adversity are so important. Thinking of others before oneself is a noble aspiration, a good way to live, whinging about kind comments made to oneself is mean spirited.



I don`t celebrate christmas either. Vikings celebrate Yuletide, or Jul for short which is the word we still use. Santas`s sleigh is based on Thor`s flying goat-pulled wagon after all 

_'Twas the night before Christmas and all through the Hall
Not a creature was stirring, not warrior nor thrall.
And I in my armor, my shield and my helm
Was drunker than anyone else in the Realm.

I staggered upstairs and fell into bed
While four quarts of mead were ablaze in my head.
Then up from below came the sounds of a brawl
So I grabbed up my axe and ran down to the Hall.

I missed the last step and crashed down in a heap
Thinking, "Why can't those low-lifes downstairs go to sleep!"
When what to my wondering eyes should appear
But two brawny strangers, wielding mallet and spear.

I said to myself, "We'll soon have them beat!"
Then I noticed ten warriors laid out at their feet.
I gave out a yell and leapt into the fray...
I'll always regret my poor choice of that day.

For the one laid his hammer to the side of my nose
And up, up, up to the rafters I rose.
Then came a lone frightened voice from the floor,
"Those are no mortal warriors -- that's Odin and Thor!"

Then they looked at each other and they said, "Battle's done.
Now they know who we are, it no longer is fun."
Then Thor raised his hammer, and his elbow he bent,
And with a loud crash, through the ceiling they went.

I crawled through the Hall and flung open the door,
Not really sure that I'd seen them before.
The snow bathed in starlight, the moon like a glede,
I saw them ride off on an eight-legged steed.

And I heard them exclaim, 'ere they flew out of sight,
"TO HELA WITH CHRISTMAS, WE JUST LOVE A GOOD FIGHT!"




_


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## granfire

Winter Veil....

Just because. 

And for the 14th I stick some candles on a tiara and walk through the neighborhood.


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## aedrasteia

granfire said:


> Winter Veil....
> Just because.
> And for the 14th I stick some candles on a tiara and walk through the neighborhood.



Oh another one!! ... wandering around in a long white dress, fire on her head, giving coffee and Luciakatter 
 to strangers, singing a song in Swedish about a dead Italian girl martyr from before 500 ce.  

Yeah. me, too. Though I bake the saffron buns. And we do it on the 13th.  Are you late?
w/respect A


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## aedrasteia

oops, forgot this for the non-Scandihoovians

https://www.ingebretsens.com/culture/traditions/the-legend-of-sankta-lucia

A


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## Dirty Dog

PhotonGuy said:


> _*I don't like being called that because Im not a baby*_, and it does get tiresome. Just like this girl who I knew whose name was Robin, she didn't like it when people made Batman and Robin jokes about her name, she had been hearing that all her life and she was tired of it and if you did make such a joke she would let you know that it was aggravating.



Then stop acting like one. Your reaction to this poor girl, who was just trying to be nice, is incredibly juvenile. Your continued ranting about it weeks later reinforces the impression that you are, in fact, a big baby.


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## elder999

Dirty Dog said:


> Then stop acting like one. Your reaction to this poor girl, who was just trying to be nice, is incredibly juvenile. Your continued ranting about it weeks later reinforces the impression that you are, in fact, a big baby.




*QFT.*

To all who have replied to this thread, especially DIrty Dog: You're to be commended for your patience....I'm gonna keep my fingers to myself on this one...:lfao:


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## Transk53

Hey PG, step back a little and ask yourself why you're getting so het up about this. A question has an answer for sure, but to me you are just simply using the answers as a stepping stone. There would be no reason to elaborate on a thread if you would just listen. Hey no beef man, but I simply do not understand you're patterns?


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## Cirdan

aedrasteia said:


> Oh another one!! ... wandering around in a long white dress, fire on her head, giving coffee and Luciakatter
> to strangers, singing a song in Swedish about a dead Italian girl martyr from before 500 ce.
> 
> Yeah. me, too. Though I bake the saffron buns. And we do it on the 13th. Are you late?
> w/respect A



Beautiful women in white dresses with their hair out, fire on their head and handing out goodies, now that is the kind of traditions I can get behind 
We celebrate St Lucia in Norway too of course.


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## Cirdan

Queens of light  (and goodies)


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## granfire

aedrasteia said:


> Oh another one!! ... wandering around in a long white dress, fire on her head, giving coffee and Luciakatter
> to strangers, singing a song in Swedish about a dead Italian girl martyr from before 500 ce.
> 
> Yeah. me, too. Though I bake the saffron buns. And we do it on the 13th.  Are you late?
> w/respect A



I am Josephine come lately 

I might have gotten it mixed up with some other country's custom of doing something on the 14th.
(I have to admit, I stole it from a Swedish children's series I used to read when I was a kid, not very much Scandinavian anything on my side of the family tree. It leans to the other side of Europe.)

I think I will try to find a good recipey for the buns though. they always sounded intriguing.


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## Cirdan

granfire said:


> I am Josephine come lately
> 
> I might have gotten it mixed up with some other country's custom of doing something on the 14th.
> (I have to admit, I stole it from a Swedish children's series I used to read when I was a kid, not very much Scandinavian anything on my side of the family tree. It leans to the other side of Europe.)
> 
> I think I will try to find a good recipey for the buns though. they always sounded intriguing.




I hereby declare you an honorary Scandinavian and bestow Odin`s blessing upon thee. As such you are charged with bringing buns and coffee to the people. Now rise and serve well!


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## Zero

Dirty Dog said:


> Then stop acting like one. Your reaction to this poor girl, who was just trying to be nice, is incredibly juvenile. Your continued ranting about it weeks later reinforces the impression that *you are, in fact, a big baby*.


But sure ain't no Christmas baby!!


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## Zero

Cirdan said:


> Queens of light  (and goodies)



Thanks, I had no idea this kind of thing even went on.  That last one even looks kind of familiar.


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## Cirdan

Zero said:


> Thanks, I had no idea this kind of thing even went on. That last one even looks kind of familiar.



Kate Blanchet as Galadriel in the LOTR/Hobbit movies often holds a similar pose. Maybe that`s it.


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## aedrasteia

Hey Gran - here's a picture of the buns. recipe and tips will follow. I make 4 or 5 dozen
and share w/friends and family. Wish i could make them for all MTs.
w/affection A


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## Zero

Cirdan said:


> Kate Blanchet as Galadriel in the LOTR/Hobbit movies often holds a similar pose. Maybe that`s it.



No, she looked a bit like one of those English princesses, was it Beatrice or Eugenie or something or maybe Zara, from a side profile.


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## granfire

Cirdan said:


> I hereby declare you an honorary Scandinavian and bestow Odin`s blessing upon thee. As such you are charged with bringing buns and coffee to the people. Now rise and serve well!



BWAHAHAHAHAHAHHA.
Be careful what you wish for!

:viking3:


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## Cirdan

granfire said:


> BWAHAHAHAHAHAHHA.
> Be careful what you wish for!
> 
> :viking3:



Yeees, yeees... a powerful Valkyrie of Light you will become.


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## Hong Kong Pooey

jezr74 said:


> At work, my team consisted of and Aussie (me), a Brit, two Scots, an Irishman and three locals.



So 3 Brits then, or even 4 if he was a Northern Irishman...


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## Hong Kong Pooey

Cirdan said:


> Queens of light  (and goodies)



Yet another reason to visit Scandinavia


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## ballen0351

Looks like a great way to loose your hair


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## granfire

ballen0351 said:


> Looks like a great way to loose your hair



That's where the practice with books on the head finally pays out!


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## Cirdan

ballen0351 said:


> Looks like a great way to loose your hair



The blessing of Odin makes your hair fire resistent 
(otherwise fighting those fire giants might be hard on the looks)


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## Dirty Dog

Bubble wrap! We need some bubble wrap!


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## Bob Hubbard

*Mod Note:*
Some posts that were off topic have been removed for staff review. Please stay on topic.
Thank you.


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## granfire

This looks really weird....


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## Carol

Ironically a good friend just messaged me and said 

"A [winter] storm is coming.  Media says to light hair on fire."


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## Transk53

granfire said:


> This looks really weird....



Sorry, I still don't get it?


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## granfire

I was in the wrong thread. The new layout looks weird.


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## Transk53

granfire said:


> I was in the wrong thread. The new layout looks weird.



It would be at stock. New skins coming


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## tshadowchaser

Going back to the OP  I think being politically correct and being tactful are great but there are just times when saying whats on your mind with explicit words  gets the point across faster and is understood better.  The heck with if it bothers someones sense of right or wrong, let them know your feelings in plain words


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## Steve

tshadowchaser said:


> Going back to the OP  I think being politically correct and being tactful are great but there are just times when saying whats on your mind with explicit words  gets the point across faster and is understood better.  The heck with if it bothers someones sense of right or wrong, let them know your feelings in plain words


I can see what you're saying, but IMO, it really depends.  There is a difference, I think, between speaking plainly and being rude.  You can speak plainly without being rude or offensive.

If being understood by someone is truly the goal, offending that person will likely work against you, and choosing to say, "The heck with if it bothers someone's sense of right or wrong" will render your entire message invisible.  Often, when someone is offended, they shut down, and everything said before and after is white noise. 

My personal belief is that usually, when someone chooses (as in, knowingly) to be rude or offensive, they are doing it to make themselves feel better.  Effective communication isn't a priority.


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## tshadowchaser

Steve,
I agree with what you are saying


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## Cirdan

tshadowchaser said:


> Going back to the OP  I think being politically correct and being tactful are great but there are just times when saying whats on your mind with explicit words  gets the point across faster and is understood better.  The heck with if it bothers someones sense of right or wrong, let them know your feelings in plain words



Inndeed, that is one thing I like about a lot of people who train MA they cut trough the BS and express honestly what they think. If there is one thing I hate it is small minded persons constantly out to get you ("win") hiding their trollish intent behind a thin smokescreen of "civilized" condecending words.


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## Zero

Cirdan said:


> Inndeed, that is one thing I like about a lot of people who train MA they cut trough the BS and express honestly what they think. If there is one thing I hate it is small minded persons constantly out to get you ("win") hiding their trollish intent behind a thin smokescreen of "civilized" condecending words.


That's why I dig my Finnish friends so much, they just say it how it is.  And also 'cause they got those Summer cabins deep in the woods.


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## Cirdan

Zero said:


> That's why I dig my Finnish friends so much, they just say it how it is.  And also 'cause they got those Summer cabins deep in the woods.



Not to mention every cabin got their own sauna, required by Finnish law I think 







And after a few of these in there everyone will tell you what they really think


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## Zero

I recognise the vodka but those Finnish friends of mine have clearly been holding back on the sauna accessories going by that pic of yours  :  )


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## Cirdan

Zero said:


> I recognise the vodka but those Finnish friends of mine have clearly been holding back on the sauna accessories going by that pic of yours  :  )



Yep, I mean here is what my personal sauna looks like


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## Zero

yes, but why are you waving that flag in my face when I have my harem of devoted and deadly sauna body guards around me?   : )


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## Cirdan

Zero said:


> yes, but why are you waving that flag in my face when I have my harem of devoted and deadly sauna body guards around me?   : )



The waving of the flag signals is time to go outside for a dip in some lovely ice water


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## Zero

Ha! yes, they made me do that too and in the middle of the night, an amazing but very shocking (to all areas of the body!) experience!

I must say I really dig those saunas next to the cabins and how they are wood fuelled, the heat is very different from the saunas I am used to.


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