# adolescence is an artificial extension of childhood?



## Andrew Green (Jun 11, 2007)

Rather long, but interesting article:

http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/index.php?term=pto-4311.html

Basic idea is that teenagers are capable of a lot more then society gives them credit for, and we are in a sense forcing them to remain "children" much longer then is natural.  (Which of course leads to problems)


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## Kacey (Jun 11, 2007)

I didn't read the article, but I've seen similar discussions before.  The requirements of society - especially in regards to education and ability to provide one's own needs - have lengthened the time of learning past the point of the biological ability to reproduce, while improved nutrition has lowered the age of reproduction to the point that it is earlier than physical maturity, which is dangerous for the parents (especially the mother) and the offspring (younger mothers have a higher incidence of problems both pre- and post-natally).  This creates a longer period of time during which teens are physically capable of reproduction, and experience a strong drive to do so, while society is telling them that they are mentally/emotionally/physically/educationally/etc. unready for adulthood and the responsibilities it brings.  This is a cultural rather than physical issue.

Historically, teens were considered adults, and expected to do an adults' job, as defined by the society.  In agrarian societies, children were considered adults when they became self-supporting - usually in their mid-teens - although insufficient nutrition often prevented pregnancies until the mother, at least, had stopped growing, and began having regular menstrual cycles.  Other societies stratified the genders by age, and considered girls adults as soon as they could bear children (as determined by a regular menstrual cycle - or at least by the onset of menses), but considered males to be men only when they could support a family; sometimes this was as old as mid-30s, before a man took a young teen as his wife.

Today, however, there are many issues that need to be addressed (see above) before teens are ready to enter the adult world - while their bodies are telling them that they _are_ already adults.  This dichotomy creates and/or contributes to many of the social problems we see today - teens are seen as irresponsible because of their age and inexperience (how many of you have a grandparent who starts a story with "Why, when I was _your_ age, I.... [had kids, owned a home, had a full-time job, etc.]), and yet are expected to meet the behavior standards of a time when teens were considered responsible adults.  Adolescence, as it is seen today, is a very recent cultural invention, and society is still feeling it's way through this stage of development that was often overlooked in the past, or ascribed to other stages.


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## Andrew Green (Jun 11, 2007)

The article was far more about learning and education then reproductive abilities.

For example the author states:



> We have completely isolated young people from adults and created a peer culture. We stick them in school and keep them from working in any meaningful way, and if they do something wrong we put them in a pen with other "children." In most nonindustrialized societies, young people are integrated into adult society as soon as they are capable, and there is no sign of teen turmoil. Many cultures do not even have a term for adolescence. But we not only created this stage of life: We declared it inevitable. In 1904, American psychologist G. Stanley Hall said it was programmed by evolution. He was wrong.



It also talks about property rights and motivation.  That teens, despite spending a lot of money, legally are unable to own anything.  When womething of value is on the line they are capable of a lot more.  For example passing a drivers test gets more effort then a history test.

Another statements is:


> Other long-standing data show that teens are at least as competent as adults. IQ is a quotient that indicates where you stand relative to other people your age; that stays stable. But raw scores of intelligence peak around age 14-15 and shrink thereafter. Scores on virtually all tests of memory peak between ages 13 and 15. Perceptual abilities all peak at that age. Brain size peaks at 14. Incidental memory&#8212;what you remember by accident, and not due to mnemonics&#8212;is remarkably good in early to mid teens and practically nonexistent by the '50s and '60s.



leading to the belief that at this age people should begin integrating into society, as it is when they are best able to learn and aquire skills.  

A lot of what the author claims is based around how our current model  developed, through industrialization and extending education to protect against factory abuse.  That because the factory model of work no longer exists, the education model it forced shouldn't either.


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## Kacey (Jun 11, 2007)

Well, as far as the parts you quoted, that's pretty much what I was getting at.  I agree that much of our current organizational system comes from preventing abuse in factories, which was rampant at the time the controls were put into place.

What I was getting at with the reproductive part was that puberty used to occur at somewhat older ages, and marrying younger - with puberty coming earlier, and marriage occurring later, this further increases the length of adolescence, and adds to the problem described in the article.  The graph attached at the bottom shows the average age of onset of menarche - if you were married at 17, and menarche was at 17 - no problem.  

In today's society, however, the average age of menarche has dropped below 13, and the average age of marriage is over 20 - this does add to the problem, as adolescence is generally considered to be the time between puberty and adulthood - which, as the article stated, has been artificially lengthened for societal reasons.


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## Rich Parsons (Jun 11, 2007)

Kacey said:


> Well, as far as the parts you quoted, that's pretty much what I was getting at. I agree that much of our current organizational system comes from preventing abuse in factories, which was rampant at the time the controls were put into place.
> 
> What I was getting at with the reproductive part was that puberty used to occur at somewhat older ages, and marrying younger - with puberty coming earlier, and marriage occurring later, this further increases the length of adolescence, and adds to the problem described in the article. The graph attached at the bottom shows the average age of onset of menarche - if you were married at 17, and menarche was at 17 - no problem.
> 
> In today's society, however, the average age of menarche has dropped below 13, and the average age of marriage is over 20 - this does add to the problem, as adolescence is generally considered to be the time between puberty and adulthood - which, as the article stated, has been artificially lengthened for societal reasons.


 

Forgive me for not knowing the source, but there is a good HBO show I believe about sex. i.e. males and females. In this show it discusses the average age of menarche and the reasons for it to occur. The numbers in the studies were small if I remember correctly, but the number one reason for onset of menarche was attributed to mass or wieght. The "Magic" number determined was 106 lbs. If a female remained below 106 lbs then menarche would not occur until she had reached and usually stabilized at or above 106 lbs. 

So, from what little I know, I agree with Kacey and the issue of health and dietary have lowered the age of menarche to what it is today.

With respect


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## Ceicei (Jun 11, 2007)

So are you saying that weight gain or the "obesity epidemic" resulting from societal influence (tendency of bad eating habits and lack of exercise) plays a part into this?

- Ceicei


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## Kacey (Jun 11, 2007)

Ceicei said:


> So are you saying that weight gain or the "obesity epidemic" resulting from societal influence (tendency of bad eating habits and lack of exercise) plays a part into this?
> 
> - Ceicei



Partially - but the changes seen are also due in part to better nutrition - poor nutrition slows growth and physical maturity.  There are also concerns about steroids used in meat animals speeding up the maturation process.

To return to the topic of the thread, I agree with the article - responsibility in many forms is thrust upon teens, who are simultaneously more mature physically at a younger age than they have been for centuries (societies with better nutrition also saw a drop in the age of physical maturity), and are yet denied the legal status of adults.  Teens cannot legally sign contracts, but are responsible for the results of their actions; teens cannot legally buy alcohol or cigarettes, but are assiduously courted by companies that sell such products; teens are considered unready to be parents, but are bombarded with images of sexuality aimed at younger and younger ages by the rich and famous along with the images in magazines, movies, music videos, and other popular media; teens, who are in an emotional and physical flux caused by hormonal changes that are exacerbated by societal pressures, who are experiencing types and levels of emotion not generally experienced by children, and are being told to ignore those feelings because "they are not old enough to really understand" - teens are in a horrible position of being expected to prove that they are responsible, capable, disciplined, etc., while being told that they are not old enough to demonstrate such characteristics.  

Teens, especially older teens, are expected to act like adults, but have few of the perquisites associated with adulthood; teens who demonstrate adult-level skills are held up as exceptions, and it is pounded into many teens that they _cannot_ behave as expected - then people act surprised when teens act as predicted.  This is, I think, a societal issue that goes well beyond the cultural changes that have occurred in the last century or two, but which was triggered by those changes.


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