# Datu?



## kenpo12 (Feb 4, 2004)

I've seen people use the title "Datu".  What does that mean?


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## Cruentus (Feb 4, 2004)

"Datu" basically translates to "chieftian". The word goes back to Filipino Legend.

In a martial arts context it could mean different things. In Modern Arnis, the title "Datu" was given to 6 people by GM Remy Presas. The title indicated that these people are leaders in Modern Arnis.

PAUL


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## Bob Hubbard (Feb 4, 2004)

An old (and heated) thread covers it in more detail.

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?&threadid=497&highlight=datu

:asian:


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## Cruentus (Feb 4, 2004)

:rofl: Wow Bob...that's an oldie. I hope it doesn't start any old flames! :rpo:


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## dearnis.com (Feb 4, 2004)

jeez Bob.  You open that up, Paul will get out of control, you'll have to ban him....  Bad scene.

The short version (for kenpo 12) is that Datu is a historical term/title which Professor awarded to a select few in honor of their achievements within Modern Arnis.


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## Bob Hubbard (Feb 4, 2004)

I know.... I thought there was some good explainations in there on the term, its history, and how it relates to MA in relationship to the other titles, etc.

Paul, behave.  Its too cold for me to mooch a ride to Mich to hit ya repeatedly in the stick with my head until I've had enough.


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## kenpo12 (Feb 4, 2004)

Ok thanks!  My inlaws are Filipino and I speak limited Tagalog and understand quite a bit and I've never heard the word or title used before.  I've heard the word "guro" mostly for teacher/instructor.


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## dearnis.com (Feb 4, 2004)

Chieftan is, I believe, close to the meaning.  It does not refer so much to teaching as to leadership.


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## DoxN4cer (Feb 4, 2004)

A datu in the traditional/cultural view is a spiritual leader, sort of like the medicine man or shamen of the Native Americans. It is a respected role in Filipino Muslim society. Perhaps thekuntawman (Mustafa Gatdula) could join this thread and give us some more information, as he is from that background.  

It is my understanding that the term "Lakan" means chieftain.


Tim Kashino


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## Rich Parsons (Feb 4, 2004)

> _Originally posted by DoxN4cer _
> *A datu in the traditional/cultural view is a spiritual leader, sort of like the medicine man or shamen of the Native Americans. It is a respected role in Filipino Muslim society. Perhaps thekuntawman (Mustafa Gatdula) could join this thread and give us some more information, as he is from that background.
> 
> It is my understanding that the term "Lakan" means chieftain.
> ...



Tim K,

Lakan means Chieftain? Not trying to be picky here, yet where did you here this. I am looking to do some research if you will be so kind as to head me in the right direction.

I have personally seen and heard Lakan to be used Warrior

Lakan Isa would be a First level male warrior.

Lakan Guro Isa would be a first level male warrior instructor.

And I cannot confirm myself the meanings. So, my confusion and my asking for your direction.
:asian:


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## dearnis.com (Feb 5, 2004)

Have to agree with Rich.  Also, remember that while the term datu is still more prevelant in the muslim south RP was not muslim...
The reference is, I belive, to the 12 Datus (chieftans/princes) who came to the islands from Borneo.


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## Datu Tim Hartman (Feb 5, 2004)

As explained to me by GM Buot, who is origanally from Cebu it means leader of the tribe.


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## Cruentus (Feb 5, 2004)

Yea...

I heard Lakan means "male warrior" too.

Thats why for females there was a different name for their black belt rank, not lakan.

PAUL


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## dearnis.com (Feb 5, 2004)

Dayang for females.


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## Cruentus (Feb 5, 2004)

Actually:

Lakan: "mister" or male.

Dayang: Mrs. or "female"

I think so, anyways. I have no idea what word means "warrior".


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## Cruentus (Feb 5, 2004)

> _Originally posted by dearnis.com _
> *Dayang for females. *



Yea...what he said! (I didn't read your post before I put up mine!  )


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## Rich Parsons (Feb 5, 2004)

> _Originally posted by PAUL _
> *Actually:
> 
> Lakan: "mister" or male.
> ...



Paul J,

What I meant to communicate was that I have seen others, inside Modern Arnis and outside Modern Arnis, use the term as Warrior. I did not mean to say it was correct or the only term. Hence my question to Tim K, to learn more.

:asian:


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## Cruentus (Feb 5, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Rich Parsons _
> *Paul J,
> 
> What I meant to communicate was that I have seen others, inside Modern Arnis and outside Modern Arnis, use the term as Warrior. I did not mean to say it was correct or the only term. Hence my question to Tim K, to learn more.
> ...



I see.

I myself would like to find a good resource for translating Taglog and Cebueno words into english. I have a spanish to english dictionary...I wonder if I could find a Filipino dialect to english one? 

Wouldn't that come in handy!


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## arnisador (Feb 5, 2004)

I also understood that lakan meant a male person, not necessarily a male warrior.


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## dearnis.com (Feb 5, 2004)

It connotes more than simply man, but I don't remember exactly (and most of my notes and books are put away due to my current living arrangments...)


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## DoxN4cer (Feb 7, 2004)

Well, fellas...

I have a number of Tagalog, Illongo and Cebuano to English dictionaries and language references; as well as a more-than-half-way workable understanding of both Tagalog and Illongo... gotta know what the in-laws are saying... hehehe.  

What you've all heard vs actual fact are often two different things. It wouldn't hurt to do your own research once in a while, guys.  You might be surprised as to what you might find.

Tim Kashino


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## Rich Parsons (Feb 7, 2004)

> _Originally posted by DoxN4cer _
> *Well, fellas...
> 
> I have a number of Tagalog, Illongo and Cebuano to English dictionaries and language references; as well as a more-than-half-way workable understanding of both Tagalog and Illongo... gotta know what the in-laws are saying... hehehe.
> ...



Hence,

My Request as to the sources or books to do the research. I was asking you for some guidance and direction. Out of the books you have which one would you recommend the most?

Thanks


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## DoxN4cer (Feb 7, 2004)

I'll get back tp you via e-mail, Rich.

Tim Kashino


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## Rich Parsons (Feb 7, 2004)

> _Originally posted by DoxN4cer _
> *I'll get back tp you via e-mail, Rich.
> 
> Tim Kashino *



Thank You
:asian:


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## bart (Feb 7, 2004)

Hey,

In my PHG (Philippine History and Gov't) Class when I was in High School we learned that before the Spanish came, the tribal structure of the Philippines was set up like this:

Tribe >>  Clans >> Baranggays >> Families

A tribe would be composed of 2-10 clans. A clan would be composed of any number of Baranggays. And a baranggay would have any number of families. 

Depending on the Tribe (Ilocano, Tagalog, Zambali, Waray, etc.) they would have some sort of council made up of the heads of the Clans. The Clans were broken down into Baranggays and the head of a Baranggay was a Datu.  Now we call them Barrangay Captains or Chiefs. 

The Spanish imposed their Government on top of this and in some areas the baranggay fell into disuse or was melded into the Spanish Alcalde system. But in many areas it continued on underneath the Spanish system. The Governor would be in charge of the Alcalde Mayors who used the Baranggay's existing structure to delegate work and government tasks by telling the Datus what to do or by making the Datus check with the Alcaldes before they did anything major. 

This is also similar to the way that the other big European powers of the time controlled their colonies (Britain and India, France and Vietnam, etc).  

Historically the big leaders had to be Datus in order to lead clans and tribes, but essentially a Datu was a chieftain of either low or high rank that was directly responsible for and to several families.


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## Rich Parsons (Feb 7, 2004)

> _Originally posted by bart _
> *Hey,
> 
> In my PHG (Philippine History and Gov't) Class when I was in High School we learned that before the Spanish came, the tribal structure of the Philippines was set up like this:
> ...




Great post Bart!

I would like to follow up with some more questions.

A family here in North America is the smallest form of families in existence. In other parts of the word a family includes cousins and grand parents and uncles and aunts, and all the rest.

So, How big was a family?

Baranggay's ? Are they the larger familes related by second or third cousin, or some other relation? 

Thank You for your time and effort to answer my questions.
:asian:


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## DoxN4cer (Feb 7, 2004)

A baranggay is essentally a neighborhood or subdivision, or even a "quarter" of a town or city.

The baranggay system is a carry-over from the Malay influence on the PI.

Tim Kashino


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## Mickey (Feb 7, 2004)

> _Originally posted by DoxN4cer _
> *A baranggay is essentally a neighborhood or subdivision, or even a "quarter" of a town or city.
> 
> The baranggay system is a carry-over from the Malay influence on the PI.
> ...



So there is no relationship between them? Other than location?

You seem to have some information Mr. Kashino, yet you always leave me and I guess others wanting more. Do you really know it, or are just just using a little bit of information to act like you know what is going on?

So, you might say a baranggay, would have an alderman or council man or sub mayor to represent them? or is it more of a council for the subdivision?

How do the Malay's come into play? I know they had influences on part of the PI, yet not the whole chain. Or did they? Is the term regional? Northern, Central, or Southern?

Very Curious
Mick


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## bart (Feb 8, 2004)

> So, How big was a family?
> _ --Rich Parsons _



It was the basic family unit (mother, father, kids, grandparents, etc). But most of the families within a baranggay would be related in some way.




> A baranggay is essentally a neighborhood or subdivision, or even a "quarter" of a town or city.



Modern Filipino Baranggays are distinct political units outlined in the Constitution of 1987. Those are kind of what Tim is talking about.  The baranggay has a captain similar to an alderman.

Modern Filipino government is arranged like this:

Country >> Province >> Municipality >> Baranggay 
_example:  Zambales >> Botolan >> Baranggay Batonlapoc_

or 

Country >> Chartered City >> Baranggay
_example:  Mandaluyong City >> Baranggay Malamig_

Before 1973 all Baranggays were called "Barrios". During the Marcos Era, the Barrio was changed to Baranggay when Tagalog had many other words and structures added to it and became officially called "Pilipino". That period was a time of movement toward revitalized cultural awareness and elimination of the symbols of a colonial past. 

It's really important to remember that the current Baranggay is different than the Baranggay of the past, although it did emerge from it. People might say "Baranggay Chief" but they in no way mean _chieftain_ or Datu just like when they say "Baranggay Captain" they don't mean that he commands a boat or is a naval officer of any sort. _Datu_ invokes a feeling that calls out of a distant past.

This government structure I've laid out is just the large parts. Here in the US it goes roughly Country >> State >> County >> City >> District. There are many other smaller layers that make up any of the big layers. Civics is complicated wherever you go, but the Philippines doesn't allow as much local control of governmental infrastructure as the US does, so the differences in the non-autonomous regions are very little when it comes to governmental structure at the local level comparatively.


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## dearnis.com (Feb 8, 2004)

Bart-
great info; could you give us a bit more on the pre-colonial arrangements and other titles mentioned above?


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## Rich Parsons (Feb 8, 2004)

> _Originally posted by dearnis.com _
> *Bart-
> great info; could you give us a bit more on the pre-colonial arrangements and other titles mentioned above? *



Bart

What he said!

and as the Japanese say

Doumo Arigato Gouzaimashita (* It is the most respectful way to say thank you that I know  *)

Thank You
:asian:


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## Liam_G (Feb 9, 2004)

Also, I briefly dated a Filipina woman back in college, and she talked a bit about her extended family ... I think the word she used was something like "barkada."  She said it was very important in the culture, went beyond blood boundaries, etc.  Any thoughts or insights on this??

Thanks!

Liam


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## bart (Feb 10, 2004)

Hey There,

Barkada is your group of best friends. It is VERY important and has little to do with blood or ethnicity. It's like your neighborhood pals but a bit stronger.


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