# Best Yang study materials?



## bigfootsquatch (May 29, 2007)

Books?

Videos?

Seminars?

Which do you guys suggest for each category?

Books-Don't know but considering "Mastering Taijiquan" by Fu Zhong Wen
Videos-I really don't know since so many do it differently(considering yang zhenduos or yang juns dvds
Seminars- I really don't know at all.


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## SifuPhil (May 29, 2007)

I think you might have forgotten one category...

...live teachers.


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## bigfootsquatch (May 29, 2007)

If I wanted to know which live teachers were the best I would have asked.  The reason being is that there aren't any Tai Chi schools that I know of in the Northeast Louisiana area. My instructor teaches some tai chi and wushu, but mainly his interpretation, which is tai chi, wushu, and aikido all mixed together and then taekwondo. If you know of any schools in northeast louisiana(close to morehouse or ouachita parish) then I would be very happy if you could post them. I do know of http://www.taichi4me.com/ but it is only simplified tai chi, and it is kind of expensive; Session I: Every Tuesday, January 23 to February 13=100$$


so got any ideas? plus what books,videos, and seminars do you suggest?


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## brianlkennedy (May 30, 2007)

By coincidence, I just finished an article for _Classical Fighting Arts_ magazine on Taiji Wrestling. In that article, which focuses on Yang style taijiquan, I make these recommendations:

*Sources:*
*Tim Cartmells* books and videos are an outstanding resource for information on the traditional martial arts of China in particular those arts that are grappling orientated. Mr. Cartmell has written what many consider the single best book on the interrelationship between Chinese internal martial arts and grappling and throwing. That book is _Principles, Analysis, and Application of Effortless Combat Throws_.
  Another outstanding resource is Tim Cartmells _Standing Grappling Escapes and Counters_ DVD which has been released recently. If you want to see Taiji grappling in a real world context; that book and that DVD are your two best sources. 

*Stanley** Hennings* articles, as mentioned in the footnotes are the best starting point for those interested in the history of Taijiquan. Mr. Henning is one of Americas premier writers in the area of Chinese martial arts history and was the first writer to risk the wrath of Americas sometimes quite vitriolic Taiji community by publicly stating that the idea Taijiquan was invented by a Daoist sage was absurd. 

*Louis Swaims* two translation of Yang style Taijiquan books; _MasteringYang Style Taijiquan_ by Fu Zhongwen and _The Essence and Applications of Taijiquan_ by Yang Chengfu are both outstanding resources for people interested in the traditional Yang style form. For detailed discussion and accurate translation, these two volumes are great handbooks. 

*Barbara Daviss* translation _Taijiquan Classics: An Annotated Translation_ is a good single volume source for the historical Yang style Taijiquan classics. Her translations are particularly helpful as they include both the original and a commentary by Chen Wei-Ming who was the author of the three Republican era books mentioned in the article. 

*Douglas Wiles* translations and books about the history of Taijiquan are all worthwhile resources. For a detailed discussion of the history of Taijiquan books, Mr. Wiles book _Lost Tai'-Chi Classics from the Late Ching Dynasty_ makes for a very interesting read. 

*Mark Hennessys* translation of Master Chengs New Method of Taichi Chuan Self-Cultivation is a very well done translation of a modern Taijiquan training manual. That book shows in considerable detail Cheng Man Chings 37 posture form which was developed by Cheng Man Ching based on a Yang style model. This 37 posture form is still widely practiced here in Taiwan and Mr. Hennessys book is a great source for people interested in that form.


  Take care,
  Brian


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## Xue Sheng (May 30, 2007)

Traditional Yang Videos

1) Vincent Chu
2) Alex Dong

There are a few others but I cannot think of them at the moment. Fu Zhongwen (1903-1994) was very good but he is also no longer with us. There is a video of him on YouTube but it is in his declining years. His son is still around but I know little about his skill or if he even has videos.
Tung Kai Ying is also very good but I do not think he has any videos.

Traditional Yang Books

The Essence and Applications of Taijiquan (Paperback) 
by Yang Chengfu (Author), Louis Swaim (Translator)

The Red Book by Tung Ying Chieh (but be warned the English translation has some errors)

Seminars

Live teacher is best so that leaves you with Seminars some are better than others and to avoid a flame war I will PM you on that.

But Books and videos are at best training supplements not substitutes for a teacher


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## SifuPhil (May 31, 2007)

bigfootsquatch said:


> If I wanted to know which live teachers were the best I would have asked.


Sorry if I upset you. I thought perhaps you forgot that one cannot learn taijiquan from books, videos or seminars.


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## bigfootsquatch (May 31, 2007)

SifuPhil said:


> Sorry if I upset you. I thought perhaps you forgot that one cannot learn taijiquan from books, videos or seminars.


 
You did not upset me. I told you to tell me of some teachers in my area, but, once again you added nothing to this thread. No, rather you take out a single line from my post to throw it back at me.

Thank you to those who actually replied to my post and gave me some information. Anyone else have any other suggestions? 

To those who are going to be "cute," don't bother.


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## SifuPhil (May 31, 2007)

bigfootsquatch said:


> You did not upset me. I told you to tell me of some teachers in my area, but, once again you added nothing to this thread. No, rather you take out a single line from my post to throw it back at me.
> 
> Thank you to those who actually replied to my post and gave me some information. Anyone else have any other suggestions?
> 
> To those who are going to be "cute," don't bother.


Funny, but I don't see where I took a line from your post. Actually, I added one.

Enjoy your tapes and books.


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## bigfootsquatch (May 31, 2007)

bigfootsquatch said:


> *If I wanted to know which live teachers were the best I would have asked.*  The reason being is that there aren't any Tai Chi schools that I know of in the Northeast Louisiana area. My instructor teaches some tai chi and wushu, but mainly his interpretation, which is tai chi, wushu, and aikido all mixed together and then taekwondo. If you know of any schools in northeast louisiana(close to morehouse or ouachita parish) then I would be very happy if you could post them. I do know of http://www.taichi4me.com/ but it is only simplified tai chi, and it is kind of expensive; Session I: Every Tuesday, January 23 to February 13=100$$
> 
> 
> so got any ideas? plus what books,videos, and seminars do you suggest?


 
yeah okay. 35 years of training in your profile? That would make you between 40-50(at least), yet you are on here belittling the only way I have of learning Tai Chi. 
Ignorance may be a virtue, but immaturity certainly isn't.
(By the way, copy and pasting the first sentence of a paragraph isn't adding anything)


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## Xue Sheng (May 31, 2007)

SifuPhil said:


> Sorry if I upset you. I thought perhaps you forgot that one cannot learn taijiquan from books, videos or seminars.


 
Depends on the seminar and who is teaching it. 

Although I have attended seminars in a very very long time, nor did I ever attend many in the first place, there is a Zhaobao Taiji master that I would go to every seminar he teaches if I lived closer to where he holds his seminars and if I had the time.

Obviously you would also need a group to train with in between ad you need to be able to contact your Sifu if you have questions (and you can with this guy I am told) you could still learn Zhaobao, just very slowly. And since we are talking Taiji, very slowly is not such a bad thing. 

ALthough originally I had a sifu for Chen in my area many years ago now I am currently training Chen with a group that learns form Chen Zhenglei in Seminar and I am considering going to his next seminar myself. But then I am also seriously considering training with a Chen Teacher (also a Chen family member) the next time I am in Beijing as well, that is if he will take me as a student. 

Yang however has been with my Sifu for many years now and I will admit it is better, a bit faster and less frustrating but if seminars are all you have they are better than books and videos that is for certain.


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## Brian R. VanCise (May 31, 2007)

*ATTENTION ALL USERS:

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-MartialTalk Senior Moderator-
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## brianlkennedy (Jun 4, 2007)

To what extent one can learn from a book depends on four basic things:

What, if any, experience in "body movement" do you have
How complicated are the movements you are trying to learn
How well done is the book
How good do you want to be
  To put it another way; for example if you have done quite a bit of Yang style taiji you can more easily learn Chen style out of a book&#8212;you have experience. And  learning a front snap kick is less complicated than learning some of the real twisting Cheng style pakua. I would add too, most books are not very well done in terms of their detail (Louis Swaim&#8217;s translation Mastering Yang Style Taijiquan is an example of a book that is very well done in terms of details). And keep in mind if you are a recreational martial artists (i.e. you are not preparing for the World Taiji Form Tournament, but just doing martial arts for a fun hobby) then you do not have to give yourself ulcers about all the details. Get your book, study it, get out in the park or the backyard and have some fun. 

  On a historical note, it is always interesting to me, having written a book about Chinese martial arts training manuals, to hear modern day Chinese martial arts cyber-pundits yack about how you can not learn out of a book. 

  Well, that maybe true. I personally do not agree, I have learned plenty out of books, and the following list of Republican era martial artists do not agree either. Each of them in their respective books came flat out and said, "you can learn this out of this book, train hard, study this book carefully and you will make progress" or words to that direct effect. 

  As to some who said that:
  Sun Lu Tang [FONT=&#26032]&#65288;&#23403;&#31103;&#22530;&#65289;[/FONT](1861-1933)
  Jiang Rong Qiao[FONT=&#26032]&#65288;&#23004;&#23481;&#27189;&#65289;[/FONT](1891-1974)
  Huang Bo Nien[FONT=&#26032]&#65288;&#40643;&#26575;&#24180;&#65289;[/FONT](1880-1954)
  Tong Zhong Yi[FONT=&#26032]&#65288;&#20319;&#24544;&#32681;&#65289;[/FONT](1878-1963)
  Yin Yu Zhan[FONT=&#26032]&#65288;&#23609;&#29577;&#29835;&#65289;[/FONT](1890-1950)

  Now I realize one can argue&#8212;"well they are just trying to sell their books". But then that means all these guys were just guys looking to make a buck off their books and willing to lie in their books to sell the books.

  But I do not believe that of these fine Chinese boxers.

  Take care,
  Brian


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## dc_maf (Jun 4, 2007)

bigfootsquatch said:


> Books?
> 
> Videos?
> 
> ...


 
Given your situation, I would recommend using all of the above in a complementary fashion. To do so, you will want materials that are consistent with each other! There are different flavors of Yang style taiji, and while one is by no means "better" than another, if you try to mix flavors you will find inconsistencies and get very confused and frustrated.

My background is in "traditional" Yang style taiji as taught by the Yang family. Yang style taiji was introduced into the US by Cheng Man Ching and his form and postures are different enough that you would not want to mix the two. That said, there are Cheng Man Ching-related materials that can be useful to students studying other flavors of Yang style (Wolfe Lowenthal's _There Are No Secrets_ comes to mind).

For "traditional" Yang style taiji, Yang Jun's seminars and DVD's are the definitive resources. His DVD is excellent and includes demonstrations of the martial applications necessary to understand the intent of taiji movements. Combining his DVD with attendance at his seminars is a viable strategy for a serious student willing to invest the time, effort, and money. See the Yang family website for seminar information (yangfamilytaiji.com/seminars). You would want to take a "Hand Form" seminar such as the one in St. Louis in August. The seminars are intensive and fast paced. They cover the entire 103-form in four days, so a serious investment of time studying his DVD would be very worthwhile prior to attending a seminar!

As far as books go, Fu Zhong Wen's _Mastering Taijiquan_ is consistent with the traditional Yang style form taught by the Yang family and a good secondary reference to the DVD.

Taiji is more than a form and you can gain great insights and understanding by studying that which is common to all styles. There have been a number of good references given here, such as Barbara Davis's translation of the Taijiquan Classics. I will add Yang Yang's _Taijiquan: The Art Of Nurturing, The Science Of Power_. Yang Yang is a Chen stylist, but what he teaches applies to all styles of taiji.

As far as other seminars, _A Taste of China_ brings together a great group of internal Chinese martial arts masters at the end of June in Winchester, VA (http://www.atoctaijiquan.com/summerprograms.htm). Again, this is not a good resource for study of a specific form, but is an excellent exposure to the world of taiji, qigong, and related internal Chinese martial arts.


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