# Punch and palm power



## bully (Jun 13, 2011)

So, why are my palm strikes more powerful than my punches?

My punches really dont feel like they have the same power behind them as my palm strikes. Is everyone like this or just me?

I was thinking that my wrist is the weak point when I am punching and the physics point to that. When I palm strike there is nothing to move as the palm seems more connected to the bone in my forearm.

Make sense?

So, I must be doing something wrong. I also find it problematic to get power into moving targets with my punches, again my palm shots are better. I can punch a wallbag with power but focus mitts not so much.

All ideas welcome.


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## wtxs (Jun 13, 2011)

Palm strikes has less bone/skeletal/ligament alignment requirements than that of the fist, which are more critical for maximum transfer of energy.


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## mvbrown21 (Jun 13, 2011)

bully said:


> So, why are my palm strikes more powerful than my punches?
> 
> My punches really dont feel like they have the same power behind them as my palm strikes. Is everyone like this or just me?
> 
> ...



I agree with wtxs, pretty much sums it up.

You're essentially striking without a wrist when you do a palm.  The punch requires the right alignment and angle.  It's a normal problem though so don't sweat it too much.  Just work on getting it right more times than not.  Even the "masters" will collapse their punch from time to time.  When you're punching the focus mitts, just go slow instead of fast and make sure you're squared up with your triangle dead on.  This is one of those things that is best to train progressively.


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## bully (Jun 13, 2011)

So I am "normal" then?

Just lots of slow precise chain punching practise required.


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## mvbrown21 (Jun 13, 2011)

bully said:


> So I am "normal" then?
> 
> Just lots of slow precise chain punching practise required.



You "sound" normal.  I don't know though, haven't seen it first hand.

Have you learned chum kiu yet?  You know that part where you have your left arm over your right(I believe it's Lan Sau position??) and you do the twisting.  That whole form teaches you body structure unity but specifically that part more than anything.  If you can perfect that part, well, the whole form really, you'll land your punches with power more often than not when there's a moving target.


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## wtxs (Jun 13, 2011)

bully said:


> So I am "normal" then?



Be careful about asking an open ended question like that on any forum, you may not like some of the answers.


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## yak sao (Jun 13, 2011)

bully said:


> *So I am "normal" then?*
> 
> Just lots of slow precise chain punching practise required.


 

now, now, let's don't get hasty


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## mook jong man (Jun 13, 2011)

The reason the palm is more powerful is because there are less joints for the force to be lost from and it is closer to the source of power , which is your body.
It is totally normal , but with years and years of training eventually your wrist will learn to firm on impact and a mimimal amount of power will be lost from the wrist.

That's why an elbow strike is so powerful because there are no other joints for the force to leak from , it just goes straight from the shoulder joint and right out throught the point of the elbow .
Just keep doing SLT , practice your Huen Sau's a lot , and bash on a wall bag every now and again.


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## bully (Jun 14, 2011)

Cheers guys, have just learned CK...well the movements...lifetime to master!!

I will keep that in mind about the turning.


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## cwk (Jun 14, 2011)

Bully,
Don't know if this applies to you mate but it's something I've noticed with a couple of the guys I teach when we do pad/mit work. 
They have a problem with keeping the triangulation of their hips aimed to the centre of the target as they move and at the same time trying to keep their elbows in when they have to change punching angles/directions. All this leads to problems with making a clean connection with the pad, dead centre,with wrist properly aligned. A lot of the time their punches slide across the pad and the force dissipates into nothing. Hitting the pads with palm strikes cleanly is easier as the striking surface is larger then the 3 bottom knuckles of the wing chun punch.
personally, I think pad/mit work is best used for training speed, accuracy and angle changes and power shouldn't be the main focus when using them. Concentrate on accuracy and a clean connection and then add power later if you wish. 
Anyway, like I said, none of this may apply to you but it's just something I've noticed and it might be of help to you to check these things when training.


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## bully (Jun 14, 2011)

Cheers CWK, will try and have a look. It sounds logical so may video myself and look at it. And no I wont post it up on here ;-)

Hope you are well, I hate being back home!!


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## cwk (Jun 14, 2011)

bully said:


> Cheers CWK, will try and have a look. It sounds logical so may video myself and look at it. And no I wont post it up on here ;-)
> 
> Hope you are well, I hate being back home!!



I good thanks mate.
Like I said before, you're welcome to come back and train with me anytime.


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## Vajramusti (Jun 14, 2011)

Wing chun palms can be powerful... but takes patience and practice on the proper actions of the joints including the wrist and the proper angle and landing surface for each palm.
Important- not to damage the fingers or the wrist. Careful (not hard) wall bag and iron palm work can help getting used to the landing of the palms.

joy chaudhuri


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## David43515 (Jun 14, 2011)

I should begin by saying I`m not a Wing Chun practitioner, I`m a Northern Shaolin player. But no matter the style, most people hit harder with a palmstrike than with a closed fist.It all comes down to muscle tension. Even when you keep the fist loose before impact there`s still more muscle tension in the forearms than there is when the hand is open (like for a palm strike). That tension causes a loss of speed in delivery.

Force = mass x velocity sqaured. Cut the speed even a little and you cut the force dramatically.

Concentrate your training on keeping a relaxed arm until just before contact and you`ll reduce the noticable tension, but there`s always going to be some difference.


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## mook jong man (Jun 15, 2011)

In our lineage we actually cup our palm slightly before impact so the force penetrates , a flat palm tends to just spread force over the surface area.

A slightly cupped palm also fits nicely on the chin and sides of the jaw , so it minimises the chances of your strikes glancing off the opponent.


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## cwk (Jun 15, 2011)

mook jong man said:


> In our lineage we actually cup our palm slightly before impact so the force penetrates , a flat palm tends to just spread force over the surface area.
> 
> A slightly cupped palm also fits nicely on the chin and sides of the jaw , so it minimises the chances of your strikes glancing off the opponent.



we do this too. It gives a not too pleasant feeling of having your breath shocked out of you if you get hit in the chest. I like to whip peoplr with the back of my hands and fingers then immediately spin the hands over and hit them again with the cupped palm. The double hit really stuns the recipient and leaves them vulnerable to follow up attacks.
Bully, I think I showed this to you when you came to visit, right?


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## mook jong man (Jun 15, 2011)

cwk said:


> we do this too. It gives a not too pleasant feeling of having your breath shocked out of you if you get hit in the chest. I like to whip peoplr with the back of my hands and fingers then immediately spin the hands over and hit them again with the cupped palm. The double hit really stuns the recipient and leaves them vulnerable to follow up attacks.
> Bully, I think I showed this to you when you came to visit, right?



Yeah I only use a flat palm when I do a demo on somebody thats not a martial artist , because I'm scared they might have a cardiac arrest or something and sue the crap out of me.


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## bully (Jun 15, 2011)

cwk said:


> we do this too. It gives a not too pleasant feeling of having your breath shocked out of you if you get hit in the chest. I like to whip peoplr with the back of my hands and fingers then immediately spin the hands over and hit them again with the cupped palm. The double hit really stuns the recipient and leaves them vulnerable to follow up attacks.
> *Bully, I think I showed this to you when you came to visit, right?[/*quote]
> 
> You sure did, would really like to get over and train again. Will see what the future brings, got to find work and somewhere to live :-(
> ...


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