# Torn...



## Rabbitthekitten (Oct 16, 2016)

I've been offered the chance to study BJJ with one of Roger Gracie's clubs here in the UK. It fits right into my schedule, it's affordable etc... But I love doing TKD and don't want to give it up.

The classes are on different days but from a previous thread people generally don't think studying two arts is really a good idea. I asked the question about it a few weeks ago. But since then this opportunity has come up.

Should I do both or stick with TKD. I'm not giving up TKD so that's not an option.

Advice please?


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Oct 16, 2016)

BJJ and TKD are different enough that I highly doubt it will impact your learning TKD. As long as you have the time and ability to attend classes for both, go for it.


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## Headhunter (Oct 16, 2016)

Do whatever you want who cares what other people say if it makes you happy and its doable for you then do it


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## Rabbitthekitten (Oct 16, 2016)

SoI should just do it. If anyone doesn't like it then it's their problem. Not mine?


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## kuniggety (Oct 16, 2016)

I don't see what the problem is. Generally people see a problem with two similar arts... i.e. TKD and karate for example. But even then that's all up to you man.


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## Headhunter (Oct 16, 2016)

Rabbitthekitten said:


> SoI should just do it. If anyone doesn't like it then it's their problem. Not mine?


Of course


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## Tames D (Oct 16, 2016)

Rabbitthekitten said:


> people generally don't think studying two arts is really a good idea. I


Those people don't always accomplish a lot. You're the one that has to live it. I would do it if I were you.


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## msmitht (Oct 16, 2016)

I've done tkd for 34 years. I've done bjj for 16 of those years. I wish I had started bjj sooner. You can do both. I've met and been smashed by Roger. He is fantastic and comes from same Academy as my instructors.  Trained by Carlinhos


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## Dirty Dog (Oct 16, 2016)

While training in two closely related arts can cause some confusion, that doesn't really apply to TKD and BJJ. If you've got the time and motivation, go for it.


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## Touch Of Death (Oct 16, 2016)

Do it. This is what will happen to you when you try to use TKD, anyway.


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## Rabbitthekitten (Oct 17, 2016)

I'm going to do it.


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## KangTsai (Oct 17, 2016)

Saying that learning two different martial arts will make them interfere with each other, is one of the dumbest things I've heard. In fact, it's the opposite. There's only potential for mutuality.
If that kind of logic were true, I would suck at English and Korean alike, because developing two languages at the same time will make them interfere with the learning of each other, right? (To better the point, and not to brag by any means, I am in the top English class and always in the top 19 of my two other languages I'm learning)
The only thing stopping you here are financial issues and time. Go for it.


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## Touch Of Death (Oct 17, 2016)

KangTsai said:


> Saying that learning two different martial arts will make them interfere with each other, is one of the dumbest things I've heard. In fact, it's the opposite. There's only potential for mutuality.
> If that kind of logic were true, I would suck at English and Korean alike, because developing two languages at the same time will make them interfere with the learning of each other, right? (To better the point, and not to brag by any means, I am in the top English class and always in the top 19 of my two other languages I'm learning)
> The only thing stopping you here are financial issues and time. Go for it.


That being said, Kenpo doesn't mix with TKD; so, one way is going to dominate.


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## drop bear (Oct 17, 2016)

Rabbitthekitten said:


> SoI should just do it. If anyone doesn't like it then it's their problem. Not mine?



Children can grow up speaking 8 languages. You can probably manage two different martial arts if you want.

You were given bad advice.

It really irritates me when people are encouraged to mediocrity.


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## drop bear (Oct 17, 2016)

Rabbitthekitten said:


> SoI should just do it. If anyone doesn't like it then it's their problem. Not mine?



Yes do more of that. as much as you can.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Oct 17, 2016)

KangTsai said:


> Saying that learning two different martial arts will make them interfere with each other, is one of the dumbest things I've heard. In fact, it's the opposite. There's only potential for mutuality.
> If that kind of logic were true, I would suck at English and Korean alike, because developing two languages at the same time will make them interfere with the learning of each other, right? (To better the point, and not to brag by any means, I am in the top English class and always in the top 19 of my two other languages I'm learning)
> The only thing stopping you here are financial issues and time. Go for it.


Depends on the arts. Kem/npo does not mix well with TKD like TOD said, and does not mix well with certain soft, more flowing striking styles (at least the kempo I've learned). I could cross train in them now, but if I tried to at the beginning it would not have worked out well.


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## UqaabKamikaze (Oct 17, 2016)

Do it. Just do it.
Man, you are lucky.

Sent from my Karbonn A2+ using Tapatalk


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## KangTsai (Oct 17, 2016)

Touch Of Death said:


> That being said, Kenpo doesn't mix with TKD; so, one way is going to dominate.


There's a difference between being better at one over the other. I'm just saying learning both won't detriment you in any way.


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## Touch Of Death (Oct 17, 2016)

KangTsai said:


> There's a difference between being better at one over the other. I'm just saying learning both won't detriment you in any way.


Well, there is that getting rank thing, while you are doing something different that what they want.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Oct 17, 2016)

KangTsai said:


> There's a difference between being better at one over the other. I'm just saying learning both won't detriment you in any way.


It actually can. If they are teaching two different ways to punch, you might get mixed up and do that weird elbow out punch some people do. If one (kenpo) teaches you to get in close and the other (TKD) teaches you to fight from a distance, you could, if you're aware of your fighting style use them as tools when you're close or at a distance, or you could not know which one to do and mess up when you're sparring or fighting.


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## Touch Of Death (Oct 17, 2016)

kempodisciple said:


> It actually can. If they are teaching two different ways to punch, you might get mixed up and do that weird elbow out punch some people do. If one (kenpo) teaches you to get in close and the other (TKD) teaches you to fight from a distance, you could, if you're aware of your fighting style use them as tools when you're close or at a distance, or you could not know which one to do and mess up when you're sparring or fighting.


You touch on the idea, that at a higher level, these methods are all part of the same thing, and that would be true, but it is the approach that makes the difference.


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## drop bear (Oct 18, 2016)

kempodisciple said:


> It actually can. If they are teaching two different ways to punch, you might get mixed up and do that weird elbow out punch some people do. If one (kenpo) teaches you to get in close and the other (TKD) teaches you to fight from a distance, you could, if you're aware of your fighting style use them as tools when you're close or at a distance, or you could not know which one to do and mess up when you're sparring or fighting.



You really can separate them pretty easily. You just do it the way you are supposed to in the class you are in at the time. 

I am not sure why people think this is so hard. It happens in almost every activity.


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## Hanzou (Oct 18, 2016)

Rabbitthekitten said:


> I've been offered the chance to study BJJ with one of Roger Gracie's clubs here in the UK. It fits right into my schedule, it's affordable etc... But I love doing TKD and don't want to give it up.
> 
> The classes are on different days but from a previous thread people generally don't think studying two arts is really a good idea. I asked the question about it a few weeks ago. But since then this opportunity has come up.
> 
> ...



You should definitely take Bjj. Not only will it make you a more well-rounded fighter, it will also improve your ability to perform TKD (and vice versa).

Be careful though, because Bjj can be addicting.


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## drop bear (Oct 18, 2016)

Hanzou said:


> You should definitely take Bjj. Not only will it make you a more well-rounded fighter, it will also improve your ability to perform TKD (and vice versa).
> 
> Be careful though, because Bjj can be addicting.




The thing is No gi and gi jujitsu is about as similar but different as two stryles can get. and yet it is pretty common for people to cross train.

I am not sure where people get stylistically confused.


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## Jenna (Oct 19, 2016)

Rabbitthekitten said:


> I've been offered the chance to study BJJ with one of Roger Gracie's clubs here in the UK. It fits right into my schedule, it's affordable etc... But I love doing TKD and don't want to give it up.
> 
> The classes are on different days but from a previous thread people generally don't think studying two arts is really a good idea. I asked the question about it a few weeks ago. But since then this opportunity has come up.
> 
> ...


It sound like you have your answer and but you know people can say you cannot do multiple arts in the beginning.. people will say you can and should do multiple arts in the beginning.. it do not matter what people say to you.. some people can separate out on mats that is fine.. some people can separate out for real when autonomic stress responses will overrule much of it except what is deep down trained anyway.  Thing is.. these people are not you.. only you can know what you can do, what styles are oil and water to you or what styles are vodka and tomato juice  You will figure it out.. and but you will only figure it out if you try it for your self to see what is what beyond all good intentioned advice. Wishes to you Jx


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## Rabbitthekitten (Oct 19, 2016)

Jenna said:


> It sound like you have your answer and but you know people can say you cannot do multiple arts in the beginning.. people will say you can and should do multiple arts in the beginning.. it do not matter what people say to you.. some people can separate out on mats that is fine.. some people can separate out for real when autonomic stress responses will overrule much of it except what is deep down trained anyway.  Thing is.. these people are not you.. only you can know what you can do, what styles are oil and water to you or what styles are vodka and tomato juice  You will figure it out.. and but you will only figure it out if you try it for your self to see what is what beyond all good intentioned advice. Wishes to you Jx



Thanks, that was good advice. I'm going to try it. If it doesn't work out then I've learnt a lesson. If it does I'll be glad I did. If I didn't I guess I'd always be wondering. I'll try it out and see what happens.


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## jks9199 (Oct 19, 2016)

KangTsai said:


> Saying that learning two different martial arts will make them interfere with each other, is one of the dumbest things I've heard. In fact, it's the opposite. There's only potential for mutuality.
> If that kind of logic were true, I would suck at English and Korean alike, because developing two languages at the same time will make them interfere with the learning of each other, right? (To better the point, and not to brag by any means, I am in the top English class and always in the top 19 of my two other languages I'm learning)
> The only thing stopping you here are financial issues and time. Go for it.


Not really a valid comparison; learning languages and learning physical skills are very different.  But you can run into the some of the same headaches.  Ever cross up similar sounding words in the different languages?  I speak English and Spanish; there's a lot of overlapping words, with differences in pronunciation and similar meanings -- and some that are quite different. 

I see two main problems in learning two arts at once.  One is simple: we all only have 24 hours in a day, and time spent on one thing is time not spent on another, so time spent on art A is time not spent on art B.  Progress may slow...  or not.  Problem two only comes in if the arts are either very similar or very different in basis.  If underlying principles are not going to be in harmony, you're going to have problems.  If, say, one art is based on relaxation and no effort, and the other is based on maximum tension and effort... you might have trouble.  Or if they're too similar, you might mix things up.  I'll use Shotokan and TKD as an easy example, since most will agree that there's a good bit of linkage in the two arts.  Or even two forms of karate...  Now, you have to keep the kata and techniques and principles straight between them, or you'll be doing Pinan 1 when you should be doing Taeguk...  (I hope I got the two paired right; please take the meaning rather than specifics, if not!)

Oh, and for the OP?  Go out and do it, if you have the time and can afford it.  I doubt you'll have trouble confusing BJJ and TKD!


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## Jenna (Oct 19, 2016)

Rabbitthekitten said:


> Thanks, that was good advice. I'm going to try it. If it doesn't work out then I've learnt a lesson. If it does I'll be glad I did. If I didn't I guess I'd always be wondering. I'll try it out and see what happens.


Good lad, and please let us know how you get on yes?


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## Buka (Oct 19, 2016)

You're _so_ going to love grappling. 

I've done both TKD and BJJ, wish I had started both earlier.


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## drop bear (Oct 19, 2016)

jks9199 said:


> Not really a valid comparison; learning languages and learning physical skills are very different.  But you can run into the some of the same headaches.  Ever cross up similar sounding words in the different languages?  I speak English and Spanish; there's a lot of overlapping words, with differences in pronunciation and similar meanings -- and some that are quite different.
> 
> I see two main problems in learning two arts at once.  One is simple: we all only have 24 hours in a day, and time spent on one thing is time not spent on another, so time spent on art A is time not spent on art B.  Progress may slow...  or not.  Problem two only comes in if the arts are either very similar or very different in basis.  If underlying principles are not going to be in harmony, you're going to have problems.  If, say, one art is based on relaxation and no effort, and the other is based on maximum tension and effort... you might have trouble.  Or if they're too similar, you might mix things up.  I'll use Shotokan and TKD as an easy example, since most will agree that there's a good bit of linkage in the two arts.  Or even two forms of karate...  Now, you have to keep the kata and techniques and principles straight between them, or you'll be doing Pinan 1 when you should be doing Taeguk...  (I hope I got the two paired right; please take the meaning rather than specifics, if not!)
> 
> Oh, and for the OP?  Go out and do it, if you have the time and can afford it.  I doubt you'll have trouble confusing BJJ and TKD!



Ok. Gi vs no gi. is probably the most valid comparison because they are so similar. Diffent techniques different pace. same sort of look.






And lots of people can do both and benefit from both.


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## jks9199 (Oct 19, 2016)

drop bear said:


> Ok. Gi vs no gi. is probably the most valid comparison because they are so similar. Diffent techniques different pace. same sort of look.
> 
> 
> And lots of people can do both and benefit from both.



Different application -- but very largely the same principles.  Kind of like learning Spanish, Italian, and Portuguese.  They're different -- but close enough to make you wonder if you're hearing one, and close enough to manage a pidgin communication.  Or maybe British English vs American English...

Your background, as you've posted, is MMA/Kickboxing/BJJ.  On the striking side, those are all fairly similar foundations; they generate power in much the same way, they use similar techniques and body mechanics.  Now imagine if I took you out, and tried to work a system that relies on relaxation as you strike, with the power generation coming from your toes and feet, not shoulders as in most boxing/kickboxing?  Or an approach built on moving your whole body as a block, not rotation in the shoulders?  That's the type of conflict I'm talking about.


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## drop bear (Oct 20, 2016)

jks9199 said:


> Different application -- but very largely the same principles.  Kind of like learning Spanish, Italian, and Portuguese.  They're different -- but close enough to make you wonder if you're hearing one, and close enough to manage a pidgin communication.  Or maybe British English vs American English...
> 
> Your background, as you've posted, is MMA/Kickboxing/BJJ.  On the striking side, those are all fairly similar foundations; they generate power in much the same way, they use similar techniques and body mechanics.  Now imagine if I took you out, and tried to work a system that relies on relaxation as you strike, with the power generation coming from your toes and feet, not shoulders as in most boxing/kickboxing?  Or an approach built on moving your whole body as a block, not rotation in the shoulders?  That's the type of conflict I'm talking about.



I trained capoeira as well.  You just learn different movements. They go ABCD whatever and you do ABCD. Then you go to the other class and they go EFGH. And you do that.

People can learn stuff.


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## Rabbitthekitten (Oct 20, 2016)

Jenna said:


> Good lad, and please let us know how you get on yes?



Yes I'll post on Tuesday after I get home on my first class.


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## Tony Dismukes (Oct 20, 2016)

jks9199 said:


> Now imagine if I took you out, and tried to work a system that relies on relaxation as you strike, with the power generation coming from your toes and feet, not shoulders as in most boxing/kickboxing? Or an approach built on moving your whole body as a block, not rotation in the shoulders?


Power generation in good boxing does not come from the shoulders. Good boxing uses relaxed power that comes all the way up from the toes and engages the whole body - legs, hips, and back.


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## Touch Of Death (Oct 20, 2016)

Tony Dismukes said:


> Power generation in good boxing does not come from the shoulders. Good boxing uses relaxed power that comes all the way up from the toes and engages the whole body - legs, hips, and back.


Ok, sure, but if you mess up the shoulder part, none of that can happen; so, there is diamond ring of truth to what people are saying, when they say, it is all in the shoulder.


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## drop bear (Oct 20, 2016)

Touch Of Death said:


> Ok, sure, but if you mess up the shoulder part, none of that can happen; so, there is diamond ring of truth to what people are saying, when they say, it is all in the shoulder.



Nobody says that.


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## Flying Crane (Oct 20, 2016)

KangTsai said:


> Saying that learning two different martial arts will make them interfere with each other, is one of the dumbest things I've heard. In fact, it's the opposite. There's only potential for mutuality.
> If that kind of logic were true, I would suck at English and Korean alike, because developing two languages at the same time will make them interfere with the learning of each other, right? (To better the point, and not to brag by any means, I am in the top English class and always in the top 19 of my two other languages I'm learning)
> The only thing stopping you here are financial issues and time. Go for it.


Some things do interfere with each other, and make it difficult to train together.  Others don't. The language analogy doesn't hold. That is something else and simply isn't relevant.

If you havent yet experienced such a thing in your short life, that's ok.


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## drop bear (Oct 20, 2016)

Flying Crane said:


> Some things do interfere with each other, and make it difficult to train together.  Others don't. The language analogy doesn't hold. That is something else and simply isn't relevant.
> 
> If you havent yet experienced such a thing in your short life, that's ok.



OP.  That is generally a red flag regarding training. Just so you know.

Because reasons the unitiated don't understand?





We are supposed to be inspiring people.


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## msmitht (Oct 20, 2016)

drop bear said:


> The thing is No gi and gi jujitsu is about as similar but different as two stryles can get. and yet it is pretty common for people to cross train.
> 
> I am not sure where people get stylistically confused.


Yes they are but there has never been a no gi world champion that did not train first and get a BB with the gi on


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## drop bear (Oct 20, 2016)

msmitht said:


> Yes they are but there has never been a no gi world champion that did not train first and get a BB with the gi on



Dont think Ben Askren has his black belt yet.


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## Tony Dismukes (Oct 20, 2016)

msmitht said:


> Yes they are but there has never been a no gi world champion that did not train first and get a BB with the gi on


Jeff Monson won ADCC World Championship in 1999 and 2005, but didn't earn his BJJ black belt until 2007.


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## msmitht (Oct 20, 2016)

Tony Dismukes said:


> Jeff Monson won ADCC World Championship in 1999 and 2005, but didn't earn his BJJ black belt until 2007.


I was referring to ibjjf no gi but yeah, Monson was a monster on the mat


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## msmitht (Oct 20, 2016)

drop bear said:


> Dont think Ben Askren has his black belt yet.


Think he is a brown but not sure. Hasn't won at black yet ibjjf worlds


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## Tony Dismukes (Oct 21, 2016)

msmitht said:


> I was referring to ibjjf no gi


Doesn't IBJJF Worlds have divisions determined by belt rank even for no-gi? (With brown and black belt ranks required to be registered with the IBJJF, which is an expensive proposition.) In that case, I wouldn't expect to find non-black belts even competing in the black belt division, much less winning it.


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## msmitht (Oct 21, 2016)

Tony Dismukes said:


> Doesn't IBJJF Worlds have divisions determined by belt rank even for no-gi? (With brown and black belt ranks required to be registered with the IBJJF, which is an expensive proposition.) In that case, I wouldn't expect to find non-black belts even competing in the black belt division, much less winning it.


They have all belt divisions 4 no gi. Registration with them was only a hundred bucks and had to get my professor signature on a piece of paper. Ibjjf whether you like it or not has the best competitors.


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## Tony Dismukes (Oct 21, 2016)

msmitht said:


> They have all belt divisions 4 no gi


Well, that might explain why you don't have non-black belts winning the black belt division.


msmitht said:


> Registration with them was only a hundred bucks and had to get my professor signature on a piece of paper. Ibjjf whether you like it or not has the best competitors.


Black Belt Certification - IBJJF - International Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu Federation


			
				IBJJF Website said:
			
		

> Once the Application for Black Belt Certificate is approved, we will send an invoice via PayPal.  The cost for the first certificate is $400 USD and $150 for each subsequent renewal.  The paperwork will be processed after the invoice payment is received.


Paying $400 to an organization that has nothing to do with my training is bad enough, but having to pay an additional $150/year indefinitely? No thanks.

I suppose I might be willing to pay that much if I was an elite competitor wanting to test myself in the most prestigious competitions, but as it is, I'll pass.


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## msmitht (Oct 21, 2016)

Looks like they raised the price since I registered for my black belt. I'm not a competitor so I don't pay yearly dues.


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## Buka (Oct 21, 2016)

Yes, I'm a jits hack at best, but I'm an observer, always have been. I see irony in this thread as the OP is about the study of jits with TKD.

Over coffee I read the IBJJF link Tony posted, poured through all of it,  read stuff like "_from the ages of 4 years old and up_", terms like "_recognized by an official sport organization_," _rules governing the material of your gi_ (yes, I realize why - grip) "_unseamed patches will be removed by the gi police (_gi inspectors, actually, I'm being a jerk - on purpose_)_ specific measurements in the width of belts and placing of stripes, and the most important of all - "_send us money_".

The irony I see is the similarity of  the OP's dilemma and the similarity of_ some_ of the big TKD corporate entities that have grown through my lifetime, with now, apparently, BJJ ones as well. This is not a knock on TKD and not a knock on BJJ, nor on their competitions, which are pretty great and certainly well established, you guys know I love both. I just don't like all these top heavy, Martial Arts Government-like Associations. Makes me want to stand and salute....then give them the finger.

So glad my teachers, some of whom have since passed, weren't part of these things and specifically warned me against them. (both in TKD _and_ in BJJ) Sometimes I wish I was younger, but sometimes I'm glad I ain't.

Gee, have derailed this thread enough?


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## msmitht (Nov 6, 2016)

My late GM didn't like competitions either. he said they were for the young and those who excel at sports. I like all competitions but not all have good fighters at them. When you go to IBJJF or WTF sanctioned events you will get tested hard and at their respective world championships you will see the best.
Does it cost more? of course. Argue all you want about the rules but they are there for a reason. ever seen a finger get caught in a hole between a patch and the gi while opponent was spinning? I have and the finger was severely dislocated and broken. getting mad about a Gi checker doing their job is like getting mad at a cop for pulling you over for speeding. YOU BROKE THE LAW! IS YOUR FAULT.


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## drop bear (Nov 6, 2016)

Tony Dismukes said:


> Well, that might explain why you don't have non-black belts winning the black belt division.
> 
> Black Belt Certification - IBJJF - International Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu Federation
> 
> ...



Do you win any money for that investment?


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## drop bear (Nov 6, 2016)

msmitht said:


> My late GM didn't like competitions either. he said they were for the young and those who excel at sports.



tell that to the guys in the masters division.


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## msmitht (Nov 6, 2016)

drop bear said:


> tell that to the guys in the masters division.


He said, not me. he was referring to TKD.  No money for the investment just certification recognized by top organization that has been verified.


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## Tony Dismukes (Nov 7, 2016)

drop bear said:


> Do you win any money for that investment?


Not much. The very top competitors can win a little cash from IBJJF tournaments, but once you count in the expenses of training full time, travel, hotels, medical bills, and entrance fees, most of them are probably losing money on the deal.


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## Hanzou (Nov 7, 2016)

Tony Dismukes said:


> Not much. The very top competitors can win a little cash from IBJJF tournaments, but once you count in the expenses of training full time, travel, hotels, medical bills, and entrance fees, most of them are probably losing money on the deal.



That would explain why many of the top BJJ competitors are heading for MMA.


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## Ironbear24 (Nov 7, 2016)

Rabbitthekitten said:


> SoI should just do it. If anyone doesn't like it then it's their problem. Not mine?



Pretty much how life works.


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## Grange (Nov 27, 2016)

I've been training in multiple new styles for the past 9 months or so and I don't find it to be an issue.  If anything I find them to compliment each other well.  I find it harder transitioning from the style I trained in during college to these styles rather than transitioning between each of them.


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