# Kogahakempo.com



## gavarn (May 11, 2005)

Got some new info and pics on my site!! Would like to share it with everyone. kogahakempo.com


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## Rick Wade (May 11, 2005)

gavarn said:
			
		

> Got some new info and pics on my site!! Would like to share it with everyone. kogahakempo.com


let me help you out
LINK


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## rmcrobertson (May 11, 2005)

Not AGAIN with this.


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## gavarn (May 11, 2005)

again with what?


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## eyebeams (May 11, 2005)

Gah. One article per page. Not these long things.

 The other thing that gets me is that I have never, ever seen a specific technique from this school ever get demonstrated. Nor have I seen a kata or a single movie clip of any kind.

 History aside (and from what I've been led to believe, that's a *big* aside), I'd like too see what'cho got.


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## Matt (May 11, 2005)

gavarn said:
			
		

> again with what?



I think he means, again with this. 

Fondest regards, 

Matt


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## The Kai (May 12, 2005)

What's with the Hakama?


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## gavarn (May 12, 2005)

We wear Hakamas to cover our foot patterns...


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## Bob Hubbard (May 12, 2005)

Why?   (Serious question here)


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## The Kai (May 12, 2005)

Well, if that was true-should'nt they be a tad longer?  I mean if thier utility is to disguise your footwork and the skirt ends at your shin???


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## gavarn (May 12, 2005)

they work well just as they are. We are an escaping arts system foot paterns are a important part or our system if they were longer it would not be very pratical. I think we do things a little different than a lot of the other Kempo systems out there.


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## koga ha (May 12, 2005)

eyebeams said:
			
		

> Gah. One article per page. Not these long things.
> 
> The other thing that gets me is that I have never, ever seen a specific technique from this school ever get demonstrated. Nor have I seen a kata or a single movie clip of any kind.
> 
> History aside (and from what I've been led to believe, that's a *big* aside), I'd like too see what'cho got.


point taken...thanks for the input.


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## The Kai (May 12, 2005)

gavarn said:
			
		

> they work well just as they are. We are an escaping arts system foot paterns are a important part or our system if they were longer it would not be very pratical. I think we do things a little different than a lot of the other Kempo systems out there.


Well they are not very practical to start with, if you want to hide your footwork they by definition would have to drape to the floor.  Escaping patterns, such as jumping would be damm near imposible.
  Being different for the sake of being different-priceless


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## gavarn (May 13, 2005)

I thank you for your input...


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## koga ha (May 13, 2005)

The Kai said:
			
		

> Well, if that was true-should'nt they be a tad longer? I mean if thier utility is to disguise your footwork and the skirt ends at your shin???


actually, my hakama did not make the trip, so i had to borrow one.  and you noticed it was a little short.


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## Jeff Boler (May 13, 2005)

Wouldn't "Prison" uniforms be more appropriate for the Koga Ha leadership   :uhyeah:


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## gavarn (May 13, 2005)

Jef I'm not on here to be disrespected or talk ill of anyone. If you would like to talk about this style of kempo I welcome your coments.


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## The Kai (May 14, 2005)

I can't access the page so off the top o my head.


Better pictures (maybe a sequence)

LOSE THE HAKAMA!! (bet you'r not surprised by that one!).  Hakama IMHO should be reserved for formal occasions or specific weapon training.  They are impractical to train, jump or kick in.  Overuse of the hakama is a (William)durbinesque attempt elevate one's rank.
If you can't get rid of the things here is point two-The only person wearing the Hakama should be the top dog!!

Supposedly Mr Hassan had martial arts training before Mitose list that


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## BlackCatBonz (May 15, 2005)

Jeff Boler said:
			
		

> Wouldn't "Prison" uniforms be more appropriate for the Koga Ha leadership :uhyeah:


ouch!


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## gavarn (May 15, 2005)

Since I have been envolved with this system I have warn a Hakama and have had no problem training with it. Video will go on the site very soon. Kai once again I thank you for your input.


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## The Kai (May 15, 2005)

Just an opinion


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## Jeff Boler (May 17, 2005)

gavarn said:
			
		

> Jef I'm not on here to be disrespected or talk ill of anyone. If you would like to talk about this style of kempo I welcome your coments.



Actually, I thought it was a legitimate question.  I tell you what, here's my recommendation.  Ignoring the historical writings of William Durbin, who has a tendancy to leave very important facts out, how about you re-write the history of the system, and include the criminal background of it's headmaster.  I think anyone who is looking for a martial arts instructor as the ABSOLUTE RIGHT to know if an instructor has a criminal background, especially if that background includes murder.

I'm not bashing here, but this is the one reason that I left the instruction of William Durbin.  For years, he misled his students as to the true identity of Nimr Hassan, and his background.  Deception is deception, period.  If you want your instructor to be considered legitimate, be honest, and tell the whole story..


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## The Kai (May 17, 2005)

Wow disclosing that nuggett would pretty much stop any chance for standing with his students of the general martial arts populance.  Having Durbin rewrite his story is really a desprete attempt to paint over the tarnish!!
IMHO-you cannot talk about Nimr hassan without taking into account the glaring facts of his past


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## Jeff Boler (May 17, 2005)

Well I completely believe in the ability to re-habilitate.  I think he could, and even has, made positive change, and is now a positive aspect in the community.  However, I think to intentionally withold that information is wrong.

For years, I was always led to believe (by Durbin) that Terry Lee and Nimr Hassan were two differently people.  Again, this is wrong.  Durbin intentionally withheld the information, due to the fact that Hassan was present with a 5th dan and the title of "Hanshi", after their first meeting.

As a parent....if I were to learn of an instructors past criminal history, years after allowing my child to study under him, I would be furious.


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## gavarn (May 17, 2005)

Jeff I understand how you feel but Hassan has never tryed to hide who he is. I nor he cannot be responsible for what Mr. Durbin does. We are in two different states. I knew Hassan's history as does every student that trains with him. Again I say his history is just that history. I am living in the here and now and I am interested in his system of martial arts and not something that happened over 30 years ago. If Mr. Durbin mislead you I am truly sorry to hear that but it was not done by this Ryu. Jeff why don't you try talking with Hassan sometime and learn who he is first hand. Their is no doubt in my mind that he is a good man and he has something good, true and valuble to contribute to the Kempo community as a whole. The history of the Mitose family system will always be full of hearsay stories and the only person alive  that can tell anyone the truth is him. Have I ever questioned him about it, yes I have and I am comfortable with what I know and perhaps one day (if he feels it nessary ) He will share it with everyone but right now we are consentrating on this system of which I wish everyone would look at for what it is and not the characters from it's past.Thank you for your time...


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## koga ha (May 17, 2005)

gavarn said:
			
		

> Jeff I understand how you feel but Hassan has never tryed to hide who he is. I nor he cannot be responsible for what Mr. Durbin does. We are in two different states. I knew Hassan's history as does every student that trains with him. Again I say his history is just that history. I am living in the here and now and I am interested in his system of martial arts and not something that happened over 30 years ago. If Mr. Durbin mislead you I am truly sorry to hear that but it was not done by this Ryu. Jeff why don't you try talking with Hassan sometime and learn who he is first hand. Their is no doubt in my mind that he is a good man and he has something good, true and valuble to contribute to the Kempo community as a whole. The history of the Mitose family system will always be full of hearsay stories and the only person alive that can tell anyone the truth is him. Have I ever questioned him about it, yes I have and I am comfortable with what I know and perhaps one day (if he feels it nessary ) He will share it with everyone but right now we are consentrating on this system of which I wish everyone would look at for what it is and not the characters from it's past.Thank you for your time...


well put gavarn...


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## rmcrobertson (May 17, 2005)

Did Terry Lee/Nimr Hassan climb in two old people's window late one night with a screwdriver and kill one and injure the other, or did he not?


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## gavarn (May 17, 2005)

no


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## Ray (May 17, 2005)

Re: the hakama, if you're not going to wear one on the street {where self-defense is critical} then what's the point in training in one?


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## rmcrobertson (May 17, 2005)

OK, so what actually happened? What exactly did Terry Lee/Nimr Hassan do?And why do people report this everywhere, including guys like Kensho Furuya, who says that a) he met Mr. Mitose several times, b) read about the murder in the Japanese-language papers for the nine weeks of the trial?


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## koga ha (May 17, 2005)

Ray said:
			
		

> Re: the hakama, if you're not going to wear one on the street {where self-defense is critical} then what's the point in training in one?


do you walk around in your gi?


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## The Kai (May 17, 2005)

i suggest that you read the court transcript!


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## koga ha (May 17, 2005)

rmcrobertson said:
			
		

> OK, so what actually happened? What exactly did Terry Lee/Nimr Hassan do?And why do people report this everywhere, including guys like Kensho Furuya, who says that a) he met Mr. Mitose several times, b) read about the murder in the Japanese-language papers for the nine weeks of the trial?


if you really want to know, i think the person to ask would be hassan.

every report i ever read was one-sided because hassan has kept quiet about the incident; however, it seems to me that people report this everywhere without reporting the entire story.  

so, how do you make a judgement with only half a story?  

i don't know mr. furuya and his conservations with mitose.  did mr. furuya say what the conservations entailed?

as for the japanese-language papers...well, people argue over the translation of keMpo and keNpo, so i can imagine the translation of numerous documents into japanese would be crazy.


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## The Kai (May 17, 2005)

I can't imagine the court transcripts being innaccurate,  As far as the japanese newspapers there in neither a "N" or "M" in screwdriver, stab, or kill.  there is, however, an "M" in murder-when someones is killed you know what it is.  Again read the court transcripts


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## rmcrobertson (May 17, 2005)

Oh, come ON.

The transcripts, and the news reports, and the various anecdotal mentions, say that Terry Lee/Nimr Hassan climbed in a bedroom window and assaulted two old people over money that may, or may not, have been owed to James M. Mitose.

They say that one died, one lived. They say that Terry Lee/Nimr Hassan plea-bargained his way down to three years in jail, in exchange for testifying against James M. Mitose.

Please detail in what way that information is inaccurate. Please document your sources, explaining where you're getting the better information from. 

It's simple: just explain. Personally, I'd be delighted if this horrible story weren't true.

But it apparently is true.


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## koga ha (May 17, 2005)

The Kai said:
			
		

> I can't imagine the court transcripts being innaccurate, As far as the japanese newspapers there in neither a "N" or "M" in screwdriver, stab, or kill. there is, however, an "M" in murder-when someones is killed you know what it is. Again read the court transcripts


i guess the point i was trying to make was translating into another languague my not carry the same meaning.  for example: (this is old, but makes the point) u.s. markets a car called "nova", you know a star, in mexico.  well, in mexican "nova" means can't go.  needless to say the car did not sell to well.  

in regard to the transcripts, john bishop extended the offer to send me the transcripts on cd; however, i'm still waiting.  i'm sure the cd is not a high-priority item on his list of things to do, so when he gets around to it i'll take a look.


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## Ray (May 17, 2005)

koga ha said:
			
		

> do you walk around in your gi?


The fundamental difference between my gi and my street clothes is the diamond shaped gusset in the crotch; and I normally wear shoes on the street.  Other than practicing high-kicks in the studio, I won't be doing anything in my gi that I can't do in street clothes.

If your hakama hides your foot patterns, then they aren't going to be very well hidden on the street unless you wear a fashionable, long dress.


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## Ray (May 17, 2005)

koga ha said:
			
		

> if you really want to know, i think the person to ask would be hassan.


It's been my experience that the offender is usually the least reliable person to ask.


			
				koga ha said:
			
		

> every report i ever read was one-sided because hassan has kept quiet about the incident; however, it seems to me that people report this everywhere without reporting the entire story.


There's an old saying about "having your day in court."  If the accounts are true, then Terry Lee had his opportunity for "his day in court."  


			
				koga ha said:
			
		

> so, how do you make a judgement with only half a story?


You'll have to ask the criminal justice system how judgements are made with half of a story.  But I'm fairly positive that Terry Lee did the crime and served some time.  I haven't seen anything that says Hassan isn't Lee - but everything I've seen says he is.

I'm not a historian or a researcher, but if you can point to valid documentation that shows otherwise I am willing to change my opinion.


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## John Bishop (May 17, 2005)

rmcrobertson said:
			
		

> Did Terry Lee/Nimr Hassan climb in two old people's window late one night with a screwdriver and kill one and injure the other, or did he not?


No, according to his admissions and court testimony, he came in thru a sliding glass door.


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## John Bishop (May 17, 2005)

koga ha said:
			
		

> in regard to the transcripts, john bishop extended the offer to send me the transcripts on cd; however, i'm still waiting. i'm sure the cd is not a high-priority item on his list of things to do, so when he gets around to it i'll take a look.


You PM'd your name and address to me as: "Terry Lee", Kansas City, Mo. 
So, are you really Terry Lee, or a relative, or is the name just coincidental? 
I figured if you were Terry Lee, or Terry Lee Jr. you'd already know the story.


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## The Kai (May 17, 2005)

koga ha said:
			
		

> i guess the point i was trying to make was translating into another languague my not carry the same meaning. for example: (this is old, but makes the point) u.s. markets a car called "nova", you know a star, in mexico. well, in mexican "nova" means can't go. needless to say the car did not sell to well.
> .


Right I don't think they misspelled screwdriver, old man, money , murder also I don't think they had any problems translating the words.
Listenining to the offender is usally a tricky business.  denial, Justifiactions cloud the truth


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## koga ha (May 17, 2005)

Ray said:
			
		

> The fundamental difference between my gi and my street clothes is the diamond shaped gusset in the crotch; and I normally wear shoes on the street. Other than practicing high-kicks in the studio, I won't be doing anything in my gi that I can't do in street clothes.
> 
> If your hakama hides your foot patterns, then they aren't going to be very well hidden on the street unless you wear a fashionable, long dress.


i guess, i'm to assume that only men practice kempo or if something should happen on the street, people will be dressed in slacks and shoes?  

i don't understand why you would get hung up on a hakama.


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## The Kai (May 17, 2005)

Cuz it's ostentatious.


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## rmcrobertson (May 17, 2005)

Thank you, Mr. Bishop--good detail. 

You know, just once, I wish these guys would simply acknowledge what happened and build from there. After all, a) there's plenty of crappy behaviour to discuss throughout the whole history of martial arts, and b) it wouldn't necessarily mean one was irredeemable. 

And, it'd be a much better basis for their art in the future.

But then, I wish that people wouldn't claim degrees and titles that they're not even remotely entitled to, then endlessly try to BS their way out of reality.

Oh well.


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## koga ha (May 17, 2005)

The Kai said:
			
		

> Right I don't think they misspelled screwdriver, old man, money , murder also I don't think they had any problems translating the words.
> Listenining to the offender is usally a tricky business. denial, Justifiactions cloud the truth


you made a better point...where do you get screwdriver?  you don't even have the story right.


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## koga ha (May 17, 2005)

John Bishop said:
			
		

> You PM'd your name and address to me as: "Terry Lee", Kansas City, Mo.
> So, are you really Terry Lee, or a relative, or is the name just coincidental?
> I figured if you were Terry Lee, or Terry Lee Jr. you'd already know the story.


i am his son and i do know the story...why do you think i keep questioning certain comments, yours included?


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## The Kai (May 17, 2005)

koga ha said:
			
		

> you made a better point...where do you get screwdriver? you don't even have the story right.


I'm sorry..  What did he stab him with??


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## Ray (May 17, 2005)

koga ha said:
			
		

> i guess, i'm to assume that only men practice kempo or if something should happen on the street, people will be dressed in slacks and shoes?
> 
> i don't understand why you would get hung up on a hakama.


Well, if you want to wear it, then go right ahead.  If a kenpo practitioner (male or female) happens to be in a dress on the street and has to defend themselves, then I suppose the dress will make little/no difference.

However, you said the hakama served the purpose of hiding your foot manuevers.  How the heck do you hide your foot manuevers without it? Help me understand the practicality of it, if there is any.,


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## John Bishop (May 17, 2005)

koga ha said:
			
		

> i am his son and i do know the story...why do you think i keep questioning certain comments, yours included?


OK, I understand your reasons for not wanting to believe what's been put forward here.  
But the court transcript is public information, verifiable, unbiased, and contains testimony from the participants.  Your father being one.  
You should have one in the mail soon.


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## Jeff Boler (May 17, 2005)

koga ha said:
			
		

> i am his son and i do know the story...why do you think i keep questioning certain comments, yours included?



Well, you admitted to this at least.  I'm sorry, but that makes your judgement somewhat biased.  If you are his son, then you know "the real" story, or at least, the one he wants you to believe.  Why all of dodging tactics?  Tell us all the truth, so we don't have to keep having the same arguement all of the time.

It also speaks volumes that you wont use your real name....you have to hide behind an alias.


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## koga ha (May 17, 2005)

The Kai said:
			
		

> I'm sorry.. What did he stab him with??


nothing.


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## koga ha (May 17, 2005)

Jeff Boler said:
			
		

> Well, you admitted to this at least. I'm sorry, but that makes your judgement somewhat biased. If you are his son, then you know "the real" story, or at least, the one he wants you to believe. Why all of dodging tactics? Tell us all the truth, so we don't have to keep having the same arguement all of the time.
> 
> It also speaks volumes that you wont use your real name....you have to hide behind an alias.


it's the internet...get a grip.  hide behing an alias...:lol:


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## koga ha (May 17, 2005)

John Bishop said:
			
		

> OK, I understand your reasons for not wanting to believe what's been put forward here.
> But the court transcript is public information, verifiable, unbiased, and contains testimony from the participants. Your father being one.
> You should have one in the mail soon.


thank you.


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## Jeff Boler (May 17, 2005)

koga ha said:
			
		

> it's the internet...get a grip.  hide behing an alias...:lol:



Ok, here we have it.  The son of a CONVICTED MURDERER comes on this board in an attempt to "re-write" history, and this is all he can come up with.

Trust me, LOL is exactly what i'm doing....


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## koga ha (May 17, 2005)

anyway, check out the site


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## The Kai (May 17, 2005)

koga ha said:
			
		

> nothing.


Did he fall on the knife, like 2 dozen times??


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## Gentle Fist (May 18, 2005)

The Kai said:
			
		

> Did he fall on the knife, like 2 dozen times??


haha, reminds me of a time when a kid told the teacher that his fist ran into my head.


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