# GM Robert Trias



## IMAA (Jan 20, 2003)

I want to do some research on the GM to our system.

GM Robert Trias.

 I was wondering if anyone can confirm his authenticity?

 Also has anyone heard of a gentlemen in the Muncie Ind area named Dave Foreman?

Im not trying to make any false statemets or allegations I am just doing some research andtrying to find some authenticity behind our Karate system wich is derived from Korea and has a more Japanese influence.  Our system is called AmericanTaekwondo
but yet has a japanese influence.  Does anyone else have or practice a system like this?

Our Kata mainly consist of the Pin-on forms, naihanchi, and bassai sho is our last taught kata at most time shodan level.

Any info is welcome 

Thanks


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## RyuShiKan (Jan 20, 2003)

You may want to check Bruce Haines book called Karate, History and Traditionsor something along those lines.


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## yilisifu (Jan 20, 2003)

I knew Mr. Trias back in the old days.  Without going into a lot of detail, at least at this time, I will say that his stories regarding how he learned what he termed "shuri-ryu" karate are false.

   However, he was a great leader and many authentic karate instructors flocked to the USKA which he originated.

   There was, of course, a takeonwo contingent and I think some of them wanted to be more "like the Okinawans or Japanese" as it were - to be better accepted as part of the (USKA) group, and some of them adopted Okinawan kata and even did their standard taekwondo forms with an Okinawan flavor.

   Hope this helps.


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## SRyuFighter (Jan 20, 2003)

Sounds fishy to me. But I don't really know.


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## kenmpoka (Jan 20, 2003)

> _Originally posted by yilisifu _
> *I knew Mr. Trias back in the old days.  Without going into a lot of detail, at least at this time, I will say that his stories regarding how he learned what he termed "shuri-ryu" karate are false.
> 
> However, he was a great leader and many authentic karate instructors flocked to the USKA which he originated.
> ...


Yilisifu,
According to Bruce Haines' book, Trias studied with Tong Gee Hsiang in Hsing I Chuan and was also a student of Choki Motobu. What do you know that we don't or Should?

Respectully,


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## RyuShiKan (Jan 20, 2003)

> _Originally posted by kenmpoka _
> * According to Bruce Haines' book, Trias studied with Tong Gee Hsiang in Hsing I Chuan and was also a student of Choki Motobu. What do you know that we don't or Should?
> Respectully, *



As for studying with Motobu Chokiits BS.
Motobu died in 1944.
Trias training dates and the year of Motobus death dont match up.


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## kenmpoka (Jan 20, 2003)

> _Originally posted by RyuShiKan _
> *As for studying with Motobu Chokiits BS.
> Motobu died in 1944.
> Trias training dates and the year of Motobus death dont match up. *


RyuShiKan,
What were his training dates?


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## arnisador (Jan 20, 2003)

His widow Roberta Trias posts periodically on rec.martial-arts.


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## RyuShiKan (Jan 20, 2003)

> _Originally posted by kenmpoka _
> *RyuShiKan,
> What were his training dates? *



Several years back I saw a website that listed Trias training dates and I also had a copy of Haines updated version of Karate, History and Traditions the Motobu training didnt fit into the dates on the website I saw.
I emailed the website and asked for clarification. I believe his daughter was the one that replied and said Haines book was inaccurate on that account.
She couldnt explain why it was written in Haines book either.


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## kenmpoka (Jan 20, 2003)

> _Originally posted by RyuShiKan _
> *Several years back I saw a website that listed Trias training dates and I also had a copy of Haines updated version of Karate, History and Traditions the Motobu training didnt fit into the dates on the website I saw.
> I emailed the website and asked for clarification. I believe his daughter was the one that replied and said Haines book was inaccurate on that account.
> She couldnt explain why it was written in Haines book either. *


You're absolutely right,
I just checked out their web site, and it does not say that he trained with Motobu. It does say though, that this Hsiang fellow and Motobu collaborated and created Shuri-Ryu. Here is the site:
www.shuri-ryu.com/trias.htm


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## IMAA (Jan 20, 2003)

Okay,  researching and finding any hidden truths or delimas surrounding GM Robert Trias is my agenda, his legitimicies, his claims, his authenticity.  I am not by any means trying to downgrade this gentlemen who is not alive to defend himself. And thier is an honor to him since he is at the head of the family tree of my Martial Arts lineage in what has been called American Karate or American TaeKwonDo since the early to mid 80's that I started my Martial Arts training.

 I have somewhat a thick book I will not speak of its name for honor sake.  However I have heard that Mr. Trias's claims that he makes are somewhat bogus, and somewhat made up.  I dont know as to which orwhat to be clear.  I just find he makes himself out to be this idol in martial arts society and yet he's not mentioned or talked about as much as some others ie. EdParker, , Jhoon Rhee, etc... of his same time period.  

  I know he was the founder of the USKA (united states karate assoc.)  Phoenix Arizona,  and he 'states' he opened the first karate school in the US in 1946, 1st tournament rules in 1946, 1st Karate Assoc, 1948 that many great martial artist belonged too, such as Bill Wallace, George Dillman, He held the first tournament in 1955, 1st, textbook in 1958, 1st training film 1959, 1st world tournament in 1963, and 1st poffesional tournament 1968.  Anyone have any opinions or differences on these claims?

He trained with Master of Hsing Yi and shuri Toderyu, Tong Gee Hsing in Tulagi British Solomon Islands 1942. IN the latter part of WW2 it was seeking the conversion of the solomon islands.  It was from master hsing yi that he recieved his first instructors degree. Later in the war Mr. Trias met  Hoy Yuan Ping master of Kempo tode and jujitsu, who became his second teacher.  He claims he was the first caucasion to learn chinese system of hsing yi.

He also claimed to be the Highest ranking caucasion in the world, and author of the best seller, "the hand is my sword".

He goes on and says.  Karate was first introduced tothe USA by Master Trias in 1945.  He opened the first dojo in the nation in 1946 in phoenix Az.  

It goes on to say " it should be made perfectly clear that Master Trias, an American brought Karate to this country before any Japanese, or any other Orientals or caucasions".   HMM! I have to raise some suspicion to that... 
Now unbetold the story of the founding father of Karate in the city which i reside in, is Dave Forman their is a dave forman mentioned in this book however some beleive it is someone else.  Not the guy that has believed to bring Karate here.  And Others believe it was him.  I have never met Master Forman however the stories I was told are to be held in high respect for the man.  Some of his great students are Glenn Kenney, Ralph White, a Mr. Sparks. 

The only thing that makes me wonder is Forman brought forth Karate in this town and yet he has had it titled American Taekwondo with forms of both korean and japanese structure.  Some say he never made it passed sho dan level which is why in our system bassai sho is the highest kata.  Thru the years since the 80's when I started some Korean forms like Chonji has been excluded from the system.  I have also a background in Korean ChungDoKwan TKD and I studied a poomse called DoSan and one called won hyo.  ANd in the system here the American TKD /Karate they use a kata called Toesan wich is the exact same form as wonhyo in the korean format,  So it is confusing and its some of the reasoning behind why Im digging into this so deep.  Im just trying to find something that makes since.  My Teacher says since he has never heard or seen this WonHyo his only speculation is possibly since Dave Forman was in Korea and learnt from a Master Ik Lee that he possibly gotten things twisted such as names and such since it was during the war.  I dont have any info on Mr. Forman other than that....

So these are alot of my reasonigs behind this long, long, and I apologize the length of this message.

Thanks,
Now let the masses speak.. I know somebody has something to say....wheather its to agree or disagree, this is why I brought forth this topic.  Its not to disgrace, but to ponder and explore..


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## RyuShiKan (Jan 20, 2003)

> _Originally posted by kenmpoka _
> * It does say though, that this Hsiang fellow and Motobu collaborated and created Shuri-Ryu.  *



That is also pretty questionable as well.


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## RyuShiKan (Jan 20, 2003)

> _Originally posted by IMAA _
> *. It goes on to say " it should be made perfectly clear that Master Trias, an American brought Karate to this country before any Japanese, or any other Orientals or caucasions".   HMM! I have to raise some suspicion to that...
> *



Me too. Since Yabu Kentsu was in California in the 1920s, Motobu Choki was denied entry into Hawaii (not yet part of the US) in the 1930s. 
However, Chojun Miyagi and several others already had students there during that same time. 
I think there may have been others teaching in the US but didnt open the first public commercial school. 
Trias is credited for opening the first school by a non-Asian. That I do believe.


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## yilisifu (Jan 21, 2003)

Yes, Trias did open the first karate school in the U.S.  His story is that Tung Gee Hsing, a Hsing-I master, studied shuri-ryu karate in Okinawa under Motobu and then left for the Solomon Islands to work as a Christian missionary.
   Trias met him there in, I believe, 1942.  

  I also have a copy of the ORIGINAL "Hand Is My Sword" book by Trias which is 10 kliks below horrible and he once tried to get it from me.......the newer, revised version is much different.

   Anyway, as for his story......

   In 1944 in the Solomon Islands, there was a skirmish going on known as the Battle of Guadalcanal and we were getting our butts kicked at first (Prior to 1944 we were nowhere near the Solomons).  Trias was a seaman on a warship and I doubt that the commander would have stopped the ship in "the slot" (as it was known, because the Japanese were sinking lots of ships in it) to let an enlisted man take a longboat ashore......

   But IF he did manage to commandeer a longboat and get ashore, he'd have 25,000 Japanese soldiers to contend with (how did he know Tung was there in the first place?) who would kill Tung just as quickly as they'd kill him, since Japan was also at war with China.

   WHY would Tung, if he existed, teach a round-eye during the middle of one of the bloodiest battles in history?  Why would Motobu teach Tung his shuri-ryu (shuri-te was never known as a "ryu" anyway) and why would Tung, a Chinese, even WANT to learn Okinawan karate in the first place?
   I didn't know there were ANY Chinese Christian missionaries at that time - I have NEVER heard of any of them going to the Solomon Islands (Christianity was still being introduced to the Chinese by western missionaries).

   Trias would have had to get that longboat ashore MANY, MANY times to keep training and become an "instructor" under this Tung fellow.  And frankly, the battle didn't last that long anyway.

   A photo (which I have seen myself) of Tung which supposedly shows him on the islands is in serious doubt since, in the background, one can (with the aid of a magnifying glass) read a small sign which says "Chinatown" and then something else on it.
   Don't think the Solomons even today have a Chinatown......

   However, it should be remembered that his USKA became the largest karate organization in the nation.  It was comprised mostly of Okinawan and Japanese stylists.


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## Mike Clarke (Jan 21, 2003)

On one of my trips to Okinawa my sensei gave me book to take home [and bury I think?]. Titled; Karatedo "The Supreme Way."
and sub-titled, the ultimate in Okinawan Karate.
It had been presented to him by R.T. in July 1983 along with a certificate of appreceation from the A.A.U. and one [and get this] from the United States of America [certificate of achievement award]. I've always thought the certificates were condescending, and as for the book, I have to say, it's bloody awful!!!!

Not just the production of it, but the contents too. It is as far as I've been able to read [but I can only take small doses of this kind of stuff], a very self serving tome, with little  [in my opinion] in the way of good solid information.

It's littered with mistakes in peoples names and the names of styles etc, and I suspect if I knew more about the American karate sceen, I'd notice even more errors?

One should not speak ill of the dead [or those living] I suppose?
But you know, in Japan they have a saying about a nail that stands up [it's got to be knocked back down].

Roberta by the way is his daughter not his wife, her name was[is?] Jane.

As far a linage goes I think it's always best to focus on your teacher and your own training, and leave the rest to history. In my opinion things get very messy once you start looking too far back. There arn't many [in karate anyway] who can cast a straight shadow as they say.

Mike.


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## IMAA (Jan 21, 2003)

As far a linage goes I think it's always best to focus on your teacher and your own training, and leave the rest to history. In my opinion things get very messy once you start looking too far back. There arn't many [in karate anyway] who can cast a straight shadow as they say.

 Very good advice Mike I must say!!!!! 


  Well the book that I have is titled the " pinnacle of karate" its written by Mr. Trias... does anyone know or have any ideas of this particular book?  It was passed down to me from my teacher.


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## yilisifu (Jan 22, 2003)

"The Pinnacle of Karate" was, I believe, Mr. Trias's final book (after the revised version of "The Hand Is My Sword").

   I recall hearing of a form called Won Hyo - a Taekwondo form, but I can't recall where it was that I witnessed it..

   It's true that tearing Mr. Trais's background apart won't make you a better martial artist.  Like I said, I knew Mr. Trias back in the late 60's and on through the 70's...his USKA did much for the expansion and development of karate in this country and we should be thankful to him for that.  He had many shortcomings, as do we all, so let us look to what he gave us rather than what skeletons might still be found in his closet.:asian:


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## IMAA (Jan 22, 2003)

It's true that tearing Mr. Trais's background apart won't make you a better martial artist. 

USKA did much for the expansion and development of karate in this country and we should be thankful to him for that. 

 I agree totally..... these things can be rather frustrating...I tend not to get caught up on the less finer things of life....however I just called this out as a topic and yet to seewhat any body else's reatction was....and 2 to see if what I was told was the truth ornot....and to be honest it really doesnt matter what he has or hasntdone....like you said he has accomplished alot of feats for Karate in America today....

Thanks


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## RyuShiKan (Jan 23, 2003)

True tearing Trias martial resume apart wont make you a better practitioner. 
However, people that out right lie about things in the Martial Arts disrespect us all.

People that claim bloated ranks like several 10th dans or Soke licenses make not only a spectacle of themselves but unfortunately of those that train seriously too.

I really take a disliking to martial artists that try to deceive since it goes against the very ethics of training in budo.


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## yilisifu (Jan 23, 2003)

Absolutely.


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## superdave (Jan 25, 2003)

> _Originally posted by yilisifu _
> *Yes, Trias did open the first karate school in the U.S.  His story is that Tung Gee Hsing, a Hsing-I master, studied shuri-ryu karate in Okinawa under Motobu and then left for the Solomon Islands to work as a Christian missionary.
> Trias met him there in, I believe, 1942.
> 
> ...



His story must have been wrong. The Guadalcanal battle took place from August 42 until Febuary 43.  Kind of makes you wonder about the rest of the story. Hmmmm.


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## Shuri Ryu Sonny (Dec 31, 2008)

arnisador said:


> His widow Roberta Trias posts periodically on rec.martial-arts.



you mean daughter...?


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## AMP-RYU (Dec 31, 2008)

Shuri Ryu Sonny said:


> you mean daughter...?


 Dude!!!!! This thread is 5 years old my man!


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## AMP-RYU (Dec 31, 2008)

AMP-RYU said:


> Dude!!!!! This thread is 5 years old my man!


almost 6!


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## Shuri Ryu Sonny (Jan 3, 2009)

AMP-RYU said:


> almost 6!



I am new to these forums and basic just searched my style to see what i would find.


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## iamvoodoochile (Mar 7, 2011)

IMAA said:


> Now unbetold the story of the founding father of Karate in the city which i reside in, is Dave Forman their is a dave forman mentioned in this book however some beleive it is someone else.  Not the guy that has believed to bring Karate here.  And Others believe it was him.  I have never met Master Forman however the stories I was told are to be held in high respect for the man.  Some of his great students are Glenn Kenney, Ralph White, a Mr. Sparks.
> 
> The only thing that makes me wonder is Forman brought forth Karate in this town and yet he has had it titled American Taekwondo with forms of both korean and japanese structure.  Some say he never made it passed sho dan level which is why in our system bassai sho is the highest kata.  Thru the years since the 80's when I started some Korean forms like Chonji has been excluded from the system.  I have also a background in Korean ChungDoKwan TKD and I studied a poomse called DoSan and one called won hyo.  ANd in the system here the American TKD /Karate they use a kata called Toesan wich is the exact same form as wonhyo in the korean format,  So it is confusing and its some of the reasoning behind why Im digging into this so deep.  Im just trying to find something that makes since.  My Teacher says since he has never heard or seen this WonHyo his only speculation is possibly since Dave Forman was in Korea and learnt from a Master Ik Lee that he possibly gotten things twisted such as names and such since it was during the war.  I dont have any info on Mr. Forman other than that....
> .



I've been a student of Mr. David O. Foreman for over 25 years. His style isn't American TKD, his student "Ron White" opposed to "Ralph White" created that term/style. Mr. White is a dear friend of mine and was the second student Mr. Foreman ever promoted to black-belt. Mr. Sparks being the first. Master Glen Keeney (Goju Ryu) was is adopted instructor (not his student) once Mr. Foreman returned to the United States. Mr. Foreman trained under Master Kang Ik Lee in Korea in Moo Duk Kwan, Tae Kwan Do, in which Mr. Foreman still teaches today. Master Kang Ik Lee had been voted the president of the Tae Kwan Do Association just before Mr. Foreman returned to the states. Master Kang Ik Lee was also one of Hwang Kee's top students. To straighten up the forms issue, most forms have Chinese origins... Bassai comes from long fist kung-fu... [ Bassai is not the highest form in our system, I'm sorry you never had a chance to learn the rest. Though Bassai-Sho is my favorite  ] Hinon comes from Okinawa Pinon. Korea has been occupied by Japan several time and recently before Mr. Foreman was there. So Japanese influence was very present, especially in the martial arts during that time. It's debated that Master Hwang Kee learned his forms from Japanese Master Gichin Funakoshi and made them "more Korean" when returning to Korea. Master Hwang Kee and Kang Ik Lee taught those forms before the Tae Kwan Do/Tang Soo Do/etc Associations voted on their unified forms. I assure you Mr. Foreman has not changed them from the way he was taught. I've ran into other descendants of Master Kang Ik Lee, who run the same katas the same way. To straighten you out on terminology Mr. Foreman knows both the Korean and Japanese terms and teaches them in English. Remember terminology is just semantics. Honestly even the terms Karate, Kung-fu, and Tae Kwan Do all elude to the same idea's and principals. All this breaks down the barriers with other clubs and styles and allows his student to be at home and grow in any Dojo and Dojang and truly expand his knowledge. Remember to place emphasizesis in the correct location... traditions evolve, but linage and proper ethics remain true. Here is some truth about Master Trais. Master Trais wasn't the first to bring martial arts to the united states. We know this because the Chinese rail road workers. Master Trais, however was the first person to setup and register a "Karate" Dojo as a business to the public in 1946, he also set up the United States Karate Association (USKA). Which spawn one of the largest martial arts followings in the world. His accomplishments and role in American Martial Arts were very great and have great influence on the Masters of Today. He was/is the Father of American Karate.


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## Yudanshakai (Jul 26, 2011)

History has no time boundries and I stumbled across this post many years later.  I have a unique perspective for I am directly connected to both individuals Grand Master Trias and Dave Foreman in this post and have a dojo in Muncie.

I studied under Larry Sparks, Dave Foremans first black belt and due to an industrial accident to Mr. Sparks, my training took up with Ron White where I recieved a black belt.  
This journey in the martial way led me to Pheonix Arizona where my training in Shuri-Ryu began.  While living in California, Grand Master Trias connected me with one of his first Chief Instructors Pete Rabino in Laguna Beach who is my teacher in Shuri-Ryu.  
From 1982 until the death of Grand Master Trias in 1989, I had the uniqueness of training on a regular basis in the Trias dojo in Phoenix Arizona traveling with Master Trias across the United States, and globally on many occassions.  I have had an eye witness account of many of the historical documents that Grand Master Trias kept, as well as many of the photographs and signatures that support the documentation.  
Personally with 40 years in the martial arts and currently a Chief Instructor of Shuri-Ryu, I felt obligated to shed some light to some of the post that are not factual.
Grand Master Trias was a sailor in the United States Navy and was a combat veteran.  He was a member of the Navy's Underwater Demolition Teams.  He was involved in the pre-invasion covert operations in the Guadal Canal theater.  During combat actions, Grand Master Trias and other UDT operators were involved in training local indigenous forces to fight against the Imperial Japanese army.  During this time, there were areas of the Solomon islands that were secured by the United States Marine Corps.  Tulagi was one of those areas.  Grand Master Trias did meet Tung Gee Hsing on this island and the story is true about the little asain guy who kept pestering him during his work out.  Hsing wanted to learn about American Boxing, but Grand Master Trias was impatient.  Mr Trias invited him into the ring to give him an "Attitude Adjustment"  after the work out, (Grand Master personllay told me this story) that that was the worst *** beating he had ever had.  After the match he asked to train under master Hsing.  Tung Gee Hsing was a master of Hsing Yi and a student of Choki Motobu.
(Grand Master Trias never claimed to have trained under Choki Motobu!  Just under one of Motobu's chief instructors Tung Gee Hsing.  This is well documented).
Tung Gee Hsing trained Grand Master Trias in Shuri-te, Motobu-ha, and Hsing-yi.  
Tulagi was not the only place that Tung Gee Hsing and Grand Master Trias were at and trained together.
During this time, Grand Master Trias was still involved in combat operations against Japanese.
Grand Master Trias was captured during a combat operation and was held as a Prisoner of War tortured extensively by the Japanese.  After many weeks in captivity, Grand Master Trias with other American servicemen and several indeneous fighters escaped and made their way back to friendly lines.  After being repaitriated, Trias was able to re-connect with Tung Gee Hsing and continue training. It was in 1943 that Tung Gee Hsing promoted Grand Master Trias to Black Belt.  This promotion certificate was available to view in the Trias office.
   Not until other orders were recieved and deployed, did Grand Master Trias land in Singapore.  The Hock Keng Temple in Singapore (which is still there) is where Grand Master Trias continued his training under Hoy Yuan Ping.  Grand Master Trias was referred there by Tung Gee Hsing.  Near the end of the war, and not long after, Grand Master Trias did see Tung Gee Hsing a couple more times. But eventually Grand Master Trias learned of Tung Gee Hsing death. 
We can only suspect that there were martial artist here on the mainland prior to Grand Master Trias.  But, as it is said,  unless it is put to paper in never happened.  It is well documented that Grand Master Trias is the Father of Karate in America. (NOT American Karate).
 This is supported by the Arizona Supreme Court and was documented by a Supreme Court Justice which was on the bench at the time.  It is true that this Justice was a student of Grand Master Trias which gave him ability to validate the documentation for the record.  Grand Master Trias opened the first dojo in the United States, started the first martial arts organization, United States Karate Association, (which in it's zenith was the largest martial arts organization in the world).  Grand Master Trias establised the first tournaments in America, the first Professional Karate Tournament, some of the first training films as well.
On promoting the martial arts in America, Grand Master Trias was the leader regardless of style.   He developed, sponsored, aided, supported, and trained some of the greatest martial artist in the United States.  Not only in Karate, but also in Judo.  Grand Master Trias was also one of the leaders in the Judo world as well under his Judo instructor Yamada Sensei from the Kodakan.  
Of the most spirited competitors, and one of the most coveted prises was to be inducted into the Trias International Society.  (Since the passing of Grand Master Trias in 1989 the Trias International Society no longer accepts new members.  The follow on to the Trias International Society is the Bowles International Budo Society).  In the Muncie area there are two members of the Trias International Society and one member of the Bowles International Budo Society.  Indiana has historically produced some of our countries most talented martial artist.
Grand Master Trias for many years traveled around the world researching, documenting, putting a Gi on and working out in dojo's over seas and a number of these I was personally present with him.
In 1983, there was a seperation of many of the Grand Masters in Okinawa due to political in fighting.  Grand Master Trias brought all of the masters together in one large gathering, (that was filmed) and re-unified these gentlemen and opened doors to re-develop tattered relations.
Members of the U.S. delagation i.e. Robert Bowles, and Ridgley Abele to name a couple, held demonstrations.  Shuri-Ryu was performed for these masters.
Grand Master Trias who had been training and student for some time under Yasuhiro Konishi (Chief Instructor under Choki Motobu), and Shinkin "Makato" Gima ( Chief Instructor under Gichin Funakoshi) had recieved written documentation and authorization recognizing Robert A. Trias as Grand Master of all Shuri-Ryu Karatedo.  
Grand Master Trias a close friend of Hohan Soken, Shogen Nobuchi Oyakawa, Suzuki, Hizataka, Odo, Yagi, Nagamine, Uechi, and Miyagi to name a few.  Many of these masters I was present to meet, and watch them roll out the red carpet for Grand Master Trias.  They were friends, they talked on a regular basis via, letter, phone, and in person and I watched him work out with some.  
Since his passing, I have returned back to Japan and Okinawa with the next generation, traveling with Grand Master Robert Bowles.  We have met with the next generation of Grand Master Trias's teachers, Takahiro Konishi (son), and the two senior Chief Instructors under Grand Master Gima.  Grand Master Bowles, has picked up where O'Sensei Trias left off, and has continued to spread the Shuri-Ryu System to over 75,000 practioners around the world.
The old United States Karate Association is safe and in posession of Grand Master Bowles and that history has been secured.
Grand Master Trias's daughter Roberta and his wife Mrs. Trias are still alive and doing well.
The Shuri-Ryu system has been organized under the International Shuri-Ryu association with O'Sensei Bowles as the style head.  There is a cadre of Chief Instructors internationally to propagate the system and there is a assistant Chief Instructor and Chief Instructor training program.  There are numerous Shuri-ryu training symposiums around the world each year.
Grand Master Trias has written several books and since, Grand Master Bowles, and other Shuri-Ryu Chief instructors have written books, and produced training films.  (Much has been improved since the 1960's books written).  Shuri written documentation began in the early 1940's, and when put to book form was some of the first early documentation of the martial arts put to print.
Weather you believe in Grand Master Trias's work, or his authentication is up to you.  
It was important to share from an eye witness account what I personally observed, read, and photographed on my own.  Through the years while gi'd up with Grand Master Trias, I have been thrown, swept, punched, kicked, choked, sparred with weapons, trained, and patched up by Grand Master Trias.
I was a stranger but for a moment, he opened up his arms and took me in, I slept on the floor in the dojo, taught classes for him on occassion, he fed me at times, and unknown to me until years later, he wrote letters to my parents letting them know that I was safe and he was watching out for me.  You could not help but like him, with his big smile and laugh, to his great stories, jokes, and warm personality.  He loved to read, cook, and was a great dancer and was known to win dance contests and be awarded trips across the country.  
He was like a father to my teacher Pete Rabino, and those tennents that I just spoke of, were every bit a part of my teacher.  On Grand Master Trias's passing, as some of his closest students stood by his grave, there was not a dry eye, broken hearts that still bleed, and a grave that is still visited with gifts left on a regular basis, and at times late in the dark of the cemetary, there can be a student found practicing kata and a kiai that sails through the cool Arizona evening air.

As for Mr. Foreman, Grand Master Trias was not his teacher.  There is a very informative post that gives some good details to Mr. Foreman.  If you have questions for Mr. Foreman, I suggest that you stop by his dojo and ask him.  I am sure that he will tell you.  Mr. Foreman has been a good friend and has a great karate history in the tournament ring from back in the 70's with the Indiana team, of Foreman, Bowles, Kenney, and Shelton.  There is a great film that I know of from back in the 70's of Mr. Foreman in a match.  An old 8mm.. ha ha  
Also let's just say, if you work out with Mr. Foreman do not rub him on the top of the head or
he will chase you down the stairs.  ha ha  Just ask Bill superfoot Wallace.:jediduel:
That fighting spirit carried onto the rest of us.

The first dojo to open in Muncie was by Frank Shannon, a Judoka.  He was trained and earned his black belt at the Kodakan in Japan.
Mr. Foreman, and Dr. Park were to follow.

Any questions swing by the dojo


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## TimoS (Jul 27, 2011)

Yudanshakai said:


> (Grand Master Trias never claimed to have trained under Choki Motobu!  Just under one of Motobu's chief instructors Tung Gee Hsing.  This is well documented).


What is documented (and especially where)? That Trias trained under someone named Tung Gee Hsing or that this individual was Motobu's student?


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## Tez3 (Jul 27, 2011)

Wow, an 8 year old thread resurrected! I'm impressed.


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## Never_A_Reflection (Jul 27, 2011)

Yudanshakai said:


> ...Personally with 40 years in the martial arts and currently a Chief Instructor of Shuri-Ryu...



I've heard that history told several times before, although you had some extra names and details I hadn't heard.  Would you be Mr. Sheridan, by any chance?  I'm just guessing because I used to train Shuri-Ryu in Illinois under Mr. Walker and his son Joey Johnston (I train Shorin-Ryu under one of Mr. Bethea's students now and still visit and train every time I go back home) but I like to think I'm still part of the "Shuri-Ryu family" back home and the only Chief Instructors I know of in Indiana are Mr. Bowles and Mr. Sheridan, though I haven't had the pleasure of meeting either.


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## Yudanshakai (Jul 29, 2011)

I asked Konishi and he said so for one. Also you are going to be hard pressed to find a list of all Motubu's students because Master Konishi said that Motobu was not known for keeping much as far as historical documentation. Although Motobu did publish a book with photo's. O.   The book focused on Kumite. The are various articles written on Konishi  Pat McCarthy has done some very good work on him as well. One thing that Grandmaster Trias was good at was documentating this history   As a former Arizona Highway Patrolman  was part of the command staff.  Those of us who have been to the orient and done historical research have found little written and more passed through the dojo's. GM Trias did a good job of writing this down. Konishi validated Tung Gee Hsing.


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## Yudanshakai (Jul 29, 2011)

If you get by Muncie, stop into the dojo you have an invite.       Location is 2610 S. Mock.


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## Never_A_Reflection (Jul 30, 2011)

Yudanshakai said:


> If you get by Muncie, stop into the dojo you have an invite.       Location is 2610 S. Mock.



Thank you very much, sir, both for the information and the invitation!  I don't know when I will be in the Midwest again but if I'm ever in Muncie I'll definitely stop by!


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## Hordfest (Nov 10, 2011)

As a new student to the Shrui-ryu style, this thread was a pleasure to read, especially Mr. Sheridan's post.  Thank you.


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## miguksaram (Nov 11, 2011)

Thank you for the insight.  I have been a student of Shorei-ryu under Sensei John Sharkey for over 8 years.  This has been very interesting and informative information to read.


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## punisher73 (Nov 11, 2011)




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