# Sanchin Kata - The Backyard Tapes



## Bill Mattocks (May 7, 2016)

This is my most recent Sanchin Kata.  Feel free to comment or criticize.


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## JR 137 (May 8, 2016)

As with Seiunchin, I enjoy seeing other systems' way of doing kata that are done in my system.

My only question is could you follow this one up with a video of someone hitting you while you're doing it?  I'm sure you could find a volunteer

If you haven't seen it before, here's a great one...


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## Buka (May 8, 2016)

I so love that kind of stuff.


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## JR 137 (May 8, 2016)

Buka said:


> I so love that kind of stuff.



I love it when people say kata is a waste of time.  It's only a waste of time if you don't know why you're doing it.

The full dvd where that clip came from has a section where guys are breaking 2 X 4s off of the person doing the kata, and guys are holding Sanchin jars full of water, sand, etc. while performing the kata.

Traditional Uechi Ryu is said to be the hardest body conditioning style there is.  I can't think of too many people willing to be kicked in the calf and punched in the kidneys while doing a kata for any length of time.  One of the gentleman in the video's principals is being able to take so much punishment that your attacker loses the will to fight.  Combine that with brutal and direct strikes, and you've got a pretty effective combination IMO.

I'd love to say I'd be all over it if there was a place locally that does what they do and how they do it, but I don't know if I'd truly want to subject myself to that for years and years.  When I was in my 20s and invincible, yeah.  At almost 40, not really.


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## hoshin1600 (May 8, 2016)

JR 137 said:


> I love it when people say kata is a waste of time.  It's only a waste of time if you don't know why you're doing it.
> 
> The full dvd where that clip came from has a section where guys are breaking 2 X 4s off of the person doing the kata, and guys are holding Sanchin jars full of water, sand, etc. while performing the kata.
> 
> ...


its not really that bad.  and the strikes are usually only as strong as the student can take.  any punches to the side are to the latt muscle not the kidney, you can damage the kindeys easily.


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## hoshin1600 (May 8, 2016)

nice sanchin kata Bill.   question ,,,is the chamber position supposed to have the hand drawn back to the hip?  in Goju and Uechi  the hand is drawn back so it rests in the middle, between the hip and the arm pit


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## Bill Mattocks (May 8, 2016)

hoshin1600 said:


> nice sanchin kata Bill.   question ,,,is the chamber position supposed to have the hand drawn back to the hip?  in Goju and Uechi  the hand is drawn back so it rests in the middle, between the hip and the arm pit



We draw back to the hip for the punches. For the gouges, we draw back to nearly the armpit and then lower to the hip, opening the fist as we lower it. Is that what you meant?


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## punisher73 (May 8, 2016)

hoshin1600 said:


> nice sanchin kata Bill.   question ,,,is the chamber position supposed to have the hand drawn back to the hip?  in Goju and Uechi  the hand is drawn back so it rests in the middle, between the hip and the arm pit



I know this was directed to Bill, but I thought I would also add some input.  Isshin Ryu's Sanchin kata is unique in the style's different lineages.  This was the one kata that Tatsuo Shimabuku taught using both the horizontal punch and the vertical punch.  Depending on your lineage, it means that you will do this kata with the traditional vertical punches from the hip in Sanchin kata, or some lineages do the horizontal punches from the hip also.  There are also lineages in IR that do the horizontal punch from the mid-chest like Goju Ryu does them.  It all depends on what time period your lineage learned from Tatsuo.


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## hoshin1600 (May 8, 2016)

Bill Mattocks said:


> We draw back to the hip for the punches. For the gouges, we draw back to nearly the armpit and then lower to the hip, opening the fist as we lower it. Is that what you meant?





punisher73 said:


> I know this was directed to Bill, but I thought I would also add some input.  Isshin Ryu's Sanchin kata is unique in the style's different lineages.  This was the one kata that Tatsuo Shimabuku taught using both the horizontal punch and the vertical punch.  Depending on your lineage, it means that you will do this kata with the traditional vertical punches from the hip in Sanchin  kata, or some lineages do the horizontal punches from the hip also.  There are also lineages in IR that do the horizontal punch from the mid-chest like Goju Ryu does them.  It all depends on what time period your lineage learned from Tatsuo.



yes thank you guys for the clarification.


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## Bill Mattocks (May 9, 2016)

punisher73 said:


> I know this was directed to Bill, but I thought I would also add some input.  Isshin Ryu's Sanchin kata is unique in the style's different lineages.  This was the one kata that Tatsuo Shimabuku taught using both the horizontal punch and the vertical punch.  Depending on your lineage, it means that you will do this kata with the traditional vertical punches from the hip in Sanchin kata, or some lineages do the horizontal punches from the hip also.  There are also lineages in IR that do the horizontal punch from the mid-chest like Goju Ryu does them.  It all depends on what time period your lineage learned from Tatsuo.



We actually do Sanchin both ways.  I was practicing the 'Goju Ryu' method as performed in our lineage, but we also do the vertical fist 'Isshin Ryu' lineage version. Besides the vertical versus torquing fists, with the 'Isshin Ryu' method, we use straight gouges rather than a more circular 'break open the jar' move.


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## JR 137 (May 9, 2016)

hoshin1600 said:


> its not really that bad.  and the strikes are usually only as strong as the student can take.  any punches to the side are to the latt muscle not the kidney, you can damage the kindeys easily.



I know it's a progression, and it's not some animal going all out on you.  But that video is also a very, very small snippet of what they do for conditioning.

If you haven't seen them, check out Tee: The Spirit of Okinawan Karate and Samurai Spirit's karate episode by Nicholas Pettas.  They give a ton of insight on Okinawan karate in Okinawa.  I'd love to do that stuff, but I don't recover as quickly as I used to.

Sorry to sidetrack.


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## JR 137 (May 9, 2016)

punisher73 said:


> I know this was directed to Bill, but I thought I would also add some input.  Isshin Ryu's Sanchin kata is unique in the style's different lineages.  This was the one kata that Tatsuo Shimabuku taught using both the horizontal punch and the vertical punch.  Depending on your lineage, it means that you will do this kata with the traditional vertical punches from the hip in Sanchin kata, or some lineages do the horizontal punches from the hip also.  There are also lineages in IR that do the horizontal punch from the mid-chest like Goju Ryu does them.  It all depends on what time period your lineage learned from Tatsuo.



Miyagi also taught Sanchin several different ways.  Not every student of his learned the kata the same way.  Some had turns, some didn't, some were open hand, some were closed fist.  He reportedly taught kata to each student's strengths and weaknesses, not a one size fits all approach.  This runs counter to a lot of "traditionalists" who argue kata must never be changed in any way by anyone.  Furthermore, Miyagi didn't teach the first kata, which as Sanchin, until about 3-5 years after the student started.

Source: Interview with Meitoku Yagi, the Sensei who was given Miyagi's belt and chosen to lead Goju by the Miyagi family. 

Meitoku Yagi


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## Bill Mattocks (May 9, 2016)

JR 137 said:


> I know it's a progression, and it's not some animal going all out on you.  But that video is also a very, very small snippet of what they do for conditioning.
> 
> If you haven't seen them, check out Tee: The Spirit of Okinawan Karate and Samurai Spirit's karate episode by Nicholas Pettas.  They give a ton of insight on Okinawan karate in Okinawa.  I'd love to do that stuff, but I don't recover as quickly as I used to.
> 
> Sorry to sidetrack.



Just so nobody gets the wrong impression, we do not break boards over each other or beat people up who are doing the kata, etc.  We do sometimes check balance, tension, and breathing, through a combination of techniques performed on the person doing the kata, but we don't hurt them or break anything over them.

And to be clear, it is not always conditioning that allows one to ignore having things broken over them.  The tenseness of the muscles, the emptiness of the lungs, balance, and being 'rooted' to the ground all have something to do with it.  If I 'empty my wind' (meaning get rid of the air in my lungs and curve the ridge of muscle above my zyphoid process over my stomach), I can take a heck of a punch; and it doesn't hurt or leave a mark.  Not that we do that to each other, but just to note it can be done without conditioning; just takes training.


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## Bill Mattocks (May 9, 2016)

JR 137 said:


> Miyagi also taught Sanchin several different ways.  Not every student of his learned the kata the same way.  Some had turns, some didn't, some were open hand, some were closed fist.  He reportedly taught kata to each student's strengths and weaknesses, not a one size fits all approach.  This runs counter to a lot of "traditionalists" who argue kata must never be changed in any way by anyone.  Furthermore, Miyagi didn't teach the first kata, which as Sanchin, until about 3-5 years after the student started.
> 
> Source: Interview with Meitoku Yagi, the Sensei who was given Miyagi's belt and chosen to lead Goju by the Miyagi family.
> 
> Meitoku Yagi




I am one of those traditionalists.  Mainly because *I* am not Miyagi and neither is anyone else.  The system I train under is not mine to do with as I please.  If I ever get to the point where I have my own dojo, if I feel the need to change the katas because I think I know them better than the founder of my style, I will break away and form my own style (doubt very much that I'd ever do that).  I am not authorized to change the style I train in, nor would I contemplate such a thing.

Yes, many founders changed many things.  The founder of my style did not say "Go do your own thing, find what works for you and teach that instead of this."

Everyone is free to create their own style - it will stand or fall on its own merits.  Everyone is not free to take X, modify it to their own design, and continue to call it X.  It isn't X anymore, it is something else and it is fraudulent (IMHO) to pretend that it is, and hubris to assume that we (the collective 'we') know more than the founders of our styles.


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## JR 137 (May 9, 2016)

You'll get no argument from me on either post, Bill.  Agree 100%.


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## donald1 (May 11, 2016)

Sanchin kata is one of my favorite forms, simple but useful when youvget tired. Good for getting energy back.
When I practice it after a long class I feel like I got enough energy to repeat class (or atleast attempt)

Didnt comment on video yet but hoping to do so later.
Fixing to head to karate. Might work on sanchin as well today.


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## donald1 (May 11, 2016)

Not as fun without shime 
Yet good job, was good techniques. Clearly you know what your doing well done!


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