# Animals vs kempos



## marlon (Jun 13, 2006)

Matt Barnes brings up an interesting point.  that the animal defense techniques of SK are the same as kempos in many ways.  I agree that they seem to be groupings of specific movements and fighting styles.  each animal representing a differet way of approaching self defense based on body type of yourself the attacker the situation/environment.  So, my question has been what is a kempo?  Matt sees it from the other end and says that animal techn are kempos...  What do these distinctions really involve and mean?  Any thoughts?  As i said there are certain groupings of the techniques that animal classifcation helps to facilitate..but is that necessary.  I know AK uses groupings and family concepts, is this a similar phenomenon in SK?  Is it useful? 

Respectfully,
Marlon


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## fnorfurfoot (Jun 13, 2006)

Going through the ranks, my instructor separated the techniques as Animal Techniques, Kempos, and Combinations.  Generally speaking, they are all defensive techniques.  They seem to be separated according to where they originated from.  I now teach the Animal Techniques with the Kempos, I just refer to the animal it comes from.  I haven't noticed any logical reason why they should divided into two separate catagories.


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## ChrisWTK (Jun 13, 2006)

The kempos in my school are called kempos, but some of them are associated with a certain animal. The belt that I'm in now, blue stripe, all the kempos are based on the crane techniques.


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## DavidCC (Jun 13, 2006)

We don't even have the "kempos" at all.  26 vs. open hand combos, 10 gun, 10 knife, 10 club, 15 grab, 5 pinan, 5 kata.  1 or 2 techs for each of the 5 animals, taught but not required for any belt level.


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## Hand Sword (Jun 14, 2006)

For me, Kempos were always punch defense techniques. Depending on the teacher, some would call for an animal "kempo" such as a Tiger Kempo, etc..


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## marlon (Jun 22, 2006)

do any of you feel that the animal techniques are distinctive ways of fighting...i.e. different fighting styles or are they just kempo defense techniques with animal names...and as always is this distinction (if any) dependant on how things are taught more than how things are?  are the animal technique movements different from kempo movement?  should they be?

Respectfully,
Marlon


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## bill007 (Jul 14, 2006)

marlon said:
			
		

> do any of you feel that the animal techniques are distinctive ways of fighting...i.e. different fighting styles or are they just kempo defense techniques with animal names...and as always is this distinction (if any) dependant on how things are taught more than how things are? are the animal technique movements different from kempo movement? should they be?
> 
> Respectfully,
> Marlon


 
I have always feel the crane, snake and dragon techniques are clearly different from the kempo's for the tigers and the leopards we could probably called a lot of kempo tigers and leopards and vice versa... I don't have as much techniques as you Marlon but based on those i have this is what I feel.

Dom


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## RevIV (Aug 15, 2006)

Marlon,

try this
on week one work the different moves, strikes and styles of each of the animals-- or break it down even longer.  Teach the people the concepts of attack, defense angles and theories of each of the animals.  After they have been given some experience to them all, have them pick which one they would like to work on.  Make sure they do not all pick the same one.  Then have them spar or free fight only using the animal they chose.  This will def. show you that there are differences from Kempo's and animals.  these are the fun things martial artists get to do.  When it comes down to the brass tactics though use all the animals in one *dragon* thats what i like or as my friend puts it... "if your going to be a monkey you better be a ******** Gorilla"
In Peace
Jesse
by the way thank you up there in Canada for all your support you have shown your East Coast brothers at the seminar.


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## sifubry (Mar 6, 2007)

marlon said:


> Matt Barnes brings up an interesting point.  that the animal defense techniques of SK are the same as kempos in many ways.  I agree that they seem to be groupings of specific movements and fighting styles.  each animal representing a differet way of approaching self defense based on body type of yourself the attacker the situation/environment.  So, my question has been what is a kempo?  Matt sees it from the other end and says that animal techn are kempos...  What do these distinctions really involve and mean?  Any thoughts?  As i said there are certain groupings of the techniques that animal classifcation helps to facilitate..but is that necessary.  I know AK uses groupings and family concepts, is this a similar phenomenon in SK?  Is it useful?




We never separated Animal Techniques from Kempos. They were all Kempos, some based on animals, some based on other concepts. My instructor once said that Combinations were kempos that are required for belt ranking. In essence, they're all punch or kick counters.

I don't think the distinctions really help especially when you combine animal fighting concepts in one technique. Now I'd really like to sit down and figure out AKK concepts and start to group SKK material. This will surely produce some useful information.

A black belt in both arts once told me that AKK starts from inside the attack and SKK starts from outside the attack -- enters into the danger zone. I think the two arts could learn and blend well together. After all, they sprang from a common root.

Sifu Bry


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## marlon (Mar 6, 2007)

Welcome sifu bry, good to have you here.  It seems the animal techniques are not set at all from dojo to dojo but it was stressed to me by my instructors that the animal techniques 'moved' differently than the combinations and where you could just do them the same as combos that something was lost.  She could do her combinations with definite animal flavour and it was easily seen.  It is a different way of ending up with the same result, different body motions, different areas of power expression ...not better just different.  
respectfully,
Marlon


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## karate-dragon (Mar 15, 2007)

My instructor says the only distinction between combinations and kempos is that the combinations we study are those that were originally created by Villari and that the kempos were added later as people said "let's try it this way" or "what about doing this".


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## 14 Kempo (Mar 15, 2007)

RevIV said:


> Marlon,
> 
> try this
> on week one work the different moves, strikes and styles of each of the animals-- or break it down even longer. Teach the people the concepts of attack, defense angles and theories of each of the animals. After they have been given some experience to them all, have them pick which one they would like to work on. Make sure they do not all pick the same one. Then have them spar or free fight only using the animal they chose. This will def. show you that there are differences from Kempo's and animals. these are the fun things martial artists get to do. When it comes down to the brass tactics though use all the animals in one *dragon* thats what i like or as my friend puts it... "if your going to be a monkey you better be a ******** Gorilla"
> ...


 
I like this thought, something that we have done out here in my school. We have actually been asked at times to do the pinans putting in the influence of the different animals (i.e., pinan #1 as tiger, crane, leopard, snake and dragon). Five distintive ways of doing a single form. Initially we were asked to do it without input from our teacher, so that he could see how we would integrate whatever knowledge we had of he given animal, however, we were usually corrected on our movements.

Anyway, again, I like this thought ... thanks Jesse


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## KempoGuy06 (Mar 21, 2007)

14 Kempo said:


> I like this thought, something that we have done out here in my school. We have actually been asked at times to do the pinans putting in the influence of the different animals (i.e., pinan #1 as tiger, crane, leopard, snake and dragon). Five distintive ways of doing a single form. Initially we were asked to do it without input from our teacher, so that he could see how we would integrate whatever knowledge we had of he given animal, however, we were usually corrected on our movements.
> 
> Anyway, again, I like this thought ... thanks Jesse


14 Kempo, I like the idea of this, putting the animals into forms but I dont see how it would be done. I know the distictions be the animals but I dont see how you would put those movements into the forms. Could you explain/give an example.

B


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## DavidCC (Mar 26, 2007)

KempoGuy06 said:


> 14 Kempo, I like the idea of this, putting the animals into forms but I dont see how it would be done. I know the distictions be the animals but I dont see how you would put those movements into the forms. Could you explain/give an example.
> 
> B


 
My teacher developed a crane-flavored Pinan 1.  Different block, step, strike but same shape as the original.


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## shaolin-warrior (Apr 15, 2007)

Alot of great input,
  Combinations are done as block strike block kick defenses at fighting range. All of your kempos are done up close and personal closing the gap so fast that your block and strike are simultaneous.


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## Jdokan (Apr 17, 2007)

In my past we didn't train alot on special Animal techniques....We incorporated moves into our defensive techniques that were different than our Combinations....It has only been in the past few years that there has been an insurgence of special techniques.  Combinations would be described as "animal like"...we would practice combo's emulating animals: number 5 for instance would be animated as a crane....

Does anybody think that maybe we're getting to a point where there is too much material and not enough emphasis on basic movements???  THoughts?


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## marlon (Apr 17, 2007)

Jdokan said:


> In my past we didn't train alot on special Animal techniques....We incorporated moves into our defensive techniques that were different than our Combinations....It has only been in the past few years that there has been an insurgence of special techniques. Combinations would be described as "animal like"...we would practice combo's emulating animals: number 5 for instance would be animated as a crane....
> 
> Does anybody think that maybe we're getting to a point where there is too much material and not enough emphasis on basic movements??? THoughts?


 
I think that regardless of the amount of material basics must be emphasized from white to whatever dan.  the basics and the pain of the basics holds the truth in any art

respectfully,
Marlon


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## DavidCC (Apr 17, 2007)

Jdokan said:


> In my past we didn't train alot on special Animal techniques....We incorporated moves into our defensive techniques that were different than our Combinations....It has only been in the past few years that there has been an insurgence of special techniques. Combinations would be described as "animal like"...we would practice combo's emulating animals: number 5 for instance would be animated as a crane....
> 
> Does anybody think that maybe we're getting to a point where there is too much material and not enough emphasis on basic movements??? THoughts?


 
One of the main differences between our version of SKK and the others I have seen is that we have reduced the number of techniques and forms.  

26 open hand
15 grab
10 gun
10 knife
10 club
10 forms.


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