# Renaissance rondel dagger sparring video



## Langenschwert (Jul 9, 2007)

Here's a nice video from Zornhau (a respected group practicing HES) in Germany showing a little light contact sparring with the rondel style dagger.  They left in the mistakes they made as well.  Note the use of the reverse or "icepick" grip, typical of the period texts.  Also note the takedowns and a disarm or two:





 
Best regards,

-Mark


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## Brian R. VanCise (Jul 9, 2007)

Thanks for the clip!


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## Doc_Jude (Jul 9, 2007)

Langenschwert said:


> They left in the mistakes they made as well.



Hey, mistakes are part & parcel of training. That's the best way to tell training vids from cheezy demos.

I like it. I liked his sword stuff too, it showed the widely varied grips used with a European longsword.


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## kaizasosei (Jul 9, 2007)

i liked it.  good training i believe.
however although it is daggerpractice, which is not as dangerous to get cut by at close range.  i still think that the attitude of fighting with such weapons should be considered for realistic training.  
by no means am against this training, but i think one can learn lots of combat skills without weapons and have even more fun and experience.  of course everyone is free to use weapons as they please....
at one of my last trainings of bbt, sensei mentioned the importance of attitude in sword fighting. attitude among probably many other things also has to do with respect and that is important also to no injure oneself or others. 

j


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## Langenschwert (Jul 9, 2007)

kaizasosei said:


> i still think that the attitude of fighting with such weapons should be considered for realistic training.


 
It's hard to make knife training realistic, since many of the disarms and grapples are designed to break limbs and cause a lot of damage.  The same applies when "wrestling at the sword", as it was called.  The best we can do is try to make the technque as perfect and flexible as possible, and pressure test it up to the amount of risk we're willing to take.



> by no means am against this training, but i think one can learn lots of combat skills without weapons and have even more fun and experience. of course everyone is free to use weapons as they please....


 
In my experience, those who train in empty hand arts first have more difficulty transitioning to armed arts than the other way around, though there are exceptions.  Wrestlers tend to make good swordsmen, but since wrestling is the basis of swordsmanship, that's hardly surprising.  Learning weapons later than unarmed stuff seems to create some bad habits, like blocking a sword blade with a hand.  I think optimally, they should be taught at the same time.  The European masters of defence did not differentiate between armed and unarmed combat.  It is all one Art.



> at one of my last trainings of bbt, sensei mentioned the importance of attitude in sword fighting. attitude among probably many other things also has to do with respect and that is important also to no injure oneself or others.


 
Of course one may not injure a training partner, though accidents can happen.  Where I study, respect is assumed.  There is no need to enforce it.  A few bumps and bruises are to be expected, regardless of how careful and respectful you are.  You cannot train in a killing art and expect to be injury-free.   Fiore dei Liberi said that the most important virtue for a swordsman is audacity.  You have to have the guts to lay it on the line, knowing that you could die in doing so.  The master Sigmund Ringeck said that "a despondent heart will be defeated regardless of all skill".  The Liechtenauer verses (the basis of my art) exhort us to rush in and strike, hit or miss.  Or in other words "Make it happen". 

Best regards,

-Mark


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## Doc_Jude (Jul 9, 2007)

I recently got a copy of the Hans Talhoffer FECHTBUCH & it's very interesting. I really think that it's a shame that European fighting arts were almost lost and only now are the dedicated folks trying to put them back together.
Keep up the good work & hard training preserving and perpetuating these arts!


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## Langenschwert (Jul 10, 2007)

Doc_Jude said:


> I recently got a copy of the Hans Talhoffer FECHTBUCH & it's very interesting. I really think that it's a shame that European fighting arts were almost lost and only now are the dedicated folks trying to put them back together.
> Keep up the good work & hard training preserving and perpetuating these arts!


 
You may find this free .pdf of one of Talhoffer's other manuals interesting:

http://www.thearma.org/Fight-Earnestly.htm

Here are a bunch of historical manuals online and free: http://www.thearma.org/manuals.htm  In particular, the Ringeck is worth reading.

Best regards,

-Mark


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## Doc_Jude (Jul 10, 2007)

Thanks!


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