# Russian MA vs Asian MA



## Nightingale (Sep 11, 2003)

what are some of the differences between the russian systems and asian systems?

I'm pretty much only familiar with the Asian ones... what sets russian MA apart?


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## pknox (Sep 11, 2003)

I guess that kind of depends on which system you are talking about.  Sombo (or Sambo or Cambo) is similar in many ways to judo, but does not allow chokes.  It does however allow leg locks, which have developed as a bit of a speciality.  Judo does not allow you to lock any joint other than the elbow.  There are different types of Sombo - Sport Sombo, which emphasizes competition, and Military/Street/Combat Sombo, which does not.

A system like ROSS is more military in it's approach, and does not have many of the rituals that some asian arts have attached to them.  While it's hard to draw a parallel, a system like Ninjutsu is probably the closest similar asian system in terms of movement and technique, but it's not very similar.

Systema I am not so sure about, but I know it has a military feel to it, and to some, the techniques share some similarities with Aikido.

I think the difference is more in attitude.  From what I've seen, most of the Russian systems have a more pragmatic philosophy, and emphasize self defense more than other aspects.  With the exception of Sombo, the other arts don't place much emphasis on competition.  To use a karate metaphor, the Russian systems would be more "jitsu" systems as opposed to "do" ones. Again, this is not true in all cases, as competition Sombo does not fit that description.


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## Jay Bell (Sep 11, 2003)

You'd have an easier time, probably, listing how they are alike.  Systema (MR/VV) isn't like anything Asian that I've ever studied or seen.



> the techniques share some similarities with Aikido.



I wouldn't say that.  There are references made how Systema has an "Aiki" feel to it.  But understand...the said feeling is a point of reference from Aikidoka point of view.


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## arnisador (Sep 11, 2003)

I have notied that Aikido boards tend to have a lot of Systema discussion.


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## pknox (Sep 11, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Jay Bell _
> *I wouldn't say that.  There are references made how Systema has an "Aiki" feel to it.  But understand...the said feeling is a point of reference from Aikidoka point of view. *



Oh - I agree completely.  That is just the only asian art I could find with which to make even a gross comparison.  It really is a different mindset.

But as arnisador said, I've seen it discussed on various "aikido" boards as well -- I think Aikido Journal was one of them.


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## Roland (Sep 11, 2003)

..that is probally what you will see.

This has been said in the past, and as hard as it is to understand, Systema really has to be felt, not seen or talked about.
My first taste of The System was from Vladimir's videos, I laughed a lot.
Now, I have a very different view.

The other thing, probally the most important here, is that Systema is personal, so it is very different for everyone. Your past will affect how you and your body interpert Systema.
And it is ever changing, as you are ever changing!


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## Jay Bell (Sep 12, 2003)

Absolutely.  When people are introduced to something new as far as martial arts, they'll often try and link to a point of reference that is familiar to them.  The people kind enough in the Aiki community to write articles about Systema often use the "Aiki" reference when explaining the feeling of Systema.

Does it feel like good Aiki....a lot of times it really does.  But there is a distinction that comes out of that feeling that is very different, imo.


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## Arnaud Sachsen (Mar 25, 2012)

All martial arts poriginate din India with the ancinet fist fighting techniques ceelbrated up until the end of Empire in the Benares fist fighting festivals.  

In Ancient Greece wrestling, boxing and Pankration were practised by  athletes and the military organisations of the day alongside javelin,  discus, running and jumping, all key military skills.  Alexander the  Great in India came across the traditional Hindu fist fighting skills  and the two systems were intermixed the basis of Indias modern Kalari  Payat.

This went back to Greece as a changed Pankration.

Bodi  Dharms picked these skills up as he travelled throuigh india so taking a  more extensive repetoire into the Shaolin temples in China.

Bodi Dharma took this princely art of the Hindu warrior Brahmin caste to China where the Shaolin schools developed and in response to which in the 1500's a nun Yim Wing Tsun strated the Daoist Wing Chun system.  

Sometime after Bodi Dharma took his art out of India Okinawans began to practise the system and Okinawa Te the origin of modern Karate was taken from Okinawa to Japan in 1921.  In Japan Jiu Jistu had developed, a fighting system practised by the Samuri class and an adjunct to their swordsmanship, archery and battle curriculum.  Origins of Jiu Jitsu are likely to have been in raids and tenproary occupations of Okinawa and the Chinese mainland.

In Europe and Russia military development of the firearm as a personal and collective weapon system disenfranchised the well deevloped mixed fighting skills practised in the 21sr Century as "Rennaissance Martial Arts" that were thoroughly developed and focused on various types of sword, kives, quarter and short staves and an unarmed combat system that used fists, feet, knees, elbows, heads, locks and throws.

The roots of these systems were preserved in 'peasant sports' including localised wrestling styles, catchj as catch can, jacklet wrsetling, cumberland and westmoorland, Cornish wrestling and western (modern) boxing).

In the 1940's Russian Sambo was started based on Jiu Jitsu brought to Russia by travelling experts who took Jiu Jitsu out of Japan after Jigoro Kano the education minister introduced Judo and effectiovely took Jiu Jitsu in this from to the masses.

Russias unarmed combat system Sambo, or Systema came about.  Post WWII a spliut occured as wrestling and Judo practitioners in Russia sought to introduce Sambo as an olympic sport.  This diluetd the system into a stylised Judo form including leg locks Judo had abandoned and banning strangles Judo included to make it complementary to Judo, Greco Roman and Free Style wrestling.

Today many of us teach Systema, the full syllabus and also teach Systema adapetd to MMA competitive rules.


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