# Hip and body rotation



## PhotonGuy (Jul 12, 2016)

How's this for hip and body rotation?


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## Blindside (Jul 12, 2016)

The "problem" examples are all good, but the three elements of "proper technique" don't always occur, particularly "set" which if you did every time you threw a technique you would be telegraphing all the time.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Jul 12, 2016)

Blindside said:


> you would be telegraphing all the time.


Agree! That clip just remind me the following clip that you move your right leg backward before you move it forward.






PRO - This will give you more "momentum".
CON - You just telegraph your intention and it will take twice as much time to finish your move.

1 is always faster than 1,2. If you can make a move in 1 move, you should not make it into 2 moves. There is no argument that the more you can "compress", the more power that you can "release". But in reality, you may not have the luxury to compress "that much".

A simple example, if a mosquito flies in front of you, you try to smash it by your 2 palms, you won't have time to

- rotate your waist back,
- rotate your waist forward,
- use your waist to push your upper body,
- use your upper body to push your shoulder,
- use your shoulder to push your elbow, and
- use your elbow to push your hand.

When your hand can reach out, that mosquito will be long gone.

In

1. training, you may only care about power generation - your waist push your upper body, upper body push shoulder, shoulder push elbow, elbow push hand.
2. fighting, you care about both power and speed generation - your elbow chase your hand, shoulder chase elbow, upper body chase shoulder, waist chase upper body.


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## marques (Jul 13, 2016)

I was teached without "set".

It is a telegraphic waste of time. Some sparring partners do it (a way too much) in order to gain power (I think...), but it just nullifies everything they do next, since it becomes too obvious and/or too slow. (Sometimes the "set" is slower than a step away/aside or a jab (without "set").

If I need a "set" for some reason it is hidden by a simultaneous (fake?) jab (or something).


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## Bill Mattocks (Jul 13, 2016)

marques said:


> I was teached without "set".
> 
> It is a telegraphic waste of time. Some sparring partners do it (a way too much) in order to gain power (I think...), but it just nullifies everything they do next, since it becomes too obvious and/or too slow. (Sometimes the "set" is slower than a step away/aside or a jab (without "set").
> 
> If I need a "set" for some reason it is hidden by a simultaneous (fake?) jab (or something).



Agreed.  A wind up, of arm or hip, invites an immediate attack to a balance point on that side.


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## Flying Crane (Jul 13, 2016)

I don't have a problem with the set, as long as it's understood that the set is an exaggerated movement for training purposes, used to help the body develop the mechanics.  It mostly disappears in application.

It's a poor instructional video in that it does not teach how to do the rotation.  He only talks about the fact that it is important.  No discussion of what the feet and legs are doing, where the rotational power is coming from, etc.

Oh, and when he demonstrated coordinated rotation with his strike, he was not connected.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Jul 13, 2016)

Flying Crane said:


> It mostly disappears in application.


The concern is, after that bad habit has been developed, it's hard to remove in application. If you believe in "train as you fight", it's better not to develop that bad habit in the 1st place.

It's much

- harder to generate power through a short distance.
- easier to generate power through a long distance.

Since "long distance" means "more time". In application, you just don't have that extra time. IMO, you should not only depend on long power generation. You should also train short power generation as well.

Here is an example that no extra "hip and body rotation" are added in through training.


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## Flying Crane (Jul 13, 2016)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> The concern is, after that bad habit has been developed, it's hard to remove in application. If you believe in "train as you fight", it's better not to develop that bad habit in the 1st place.
> 
> It's much
> 
> ...


I understand the concern.  It depends on how you train.  Move big, to become small.  If you only move small, you never completely 'get' it.


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## JowGaWolf (Jul 13, 2016)

My perspective is that wind ups aren't bad so long as they are part of another technique.  The finishing flow of one technique can be the wind up flow of another technique.  On the most simple aspect of this is the 1-2 jab.  A left hand jab shoots straight out without a wind up, which causes the right hand to naturally draw back.  Now the right hand is in a position to be launched as the left hand returns from the jab.  There is no need to wind up the right arm because the wind up happened at the same time the left jab went out.

I'm not sure if the guy in the video views the "wind up" the same way, but many of us naturally do this when we run and walk through the swing of our arms.

As for hip body rotation I didn't see any of that discussion.  It's like it starts out with twisting the hip and then about punching, because he mentions the "wind up" as being part of the mechanics of the twisting of the hips.  

 If I want to "wind up" for my right jab then I'll do so by punching with my left arm first.  My left lab causes my right arm to draw back which prepares it for a powerful Jab.  What I don't want to do is to draw my left arm back to initiate a left jab.  Circular kung fu system are full of "wind ups"  but the wind up happen during defensive actions or transitioning actions.  For example, the momentum of one technique drives the following technique.  Or the twisting of my body to avoid a punch now becomes the wind up for my counter.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Jul 13, 2016)

Flying Crane said:


> I understand the concern.  It depends on how you train.  Move big, to become small.  If you only move small, you never completely 'get' it.


If we consider 

beginner level training - move big.
advance level training - move small.

When should one change from move big to move small? after 1 year? after 5 years? after 10 years?


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## Kung Fu Wang (Jul 13, 2016)

JowGaWolf said:


> My perspective is that wind ups aren't bad so long as they are part of another technique. ... If I want to "wind up" for my right jab then I'll do so by punching with my left arm first.


It's called, "hide your preparation in your previous move", or "the end of your previous move is the beginning of your next move".

The cross stance that you have right leg forward with left hand forward is a good example. Your right hand has already finished the "compress" and ready to "release" any time.


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## Flying Crane (Jul 13, 2016)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> If we consider
> 
> beginner level training - move big.
> advance level training - move small.
> ...


It is not so formulaic as that.


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## CDR_Glock (Nov 12, 2016)

As a golfer, I find hip rotation, followed by shoulder and then arm movement to give more momentum.  As I apply it in martial arts, that type of sequential movement for me is there but much less pronounced as the instructional video demonstrated.  In his "ideal" way, I feel it was a good illustration but it was not enough to emphasize how to deliver the power behind the technique.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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