# Krav Maga in Phoenix, AZ



## LilDaemon (May 30, 2008)

I'm looking for places to study KM in Phoenix. Can anyone recommend good places for me to go to out there? Or HaganaH if there's places out there too.


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## Emptyhand (Oct 30, 2008)

I know this thread is 5 months old, but if you are reading this, "google" Krav Maga Phoenix and you will come up with a number of places. I did and there are some that might be closer to you than others.

Hope you were able to find something.


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## Krav Guy (Jul 31, 2010)

New school in Phoenix,AZ 
TOTAL SUBMISSION FIGHTING SYSTEMS
Head instructor, 4th degree black belt in Krav Maga.
Fight Coordinator/Choreographer for film and television.
30 yrs experience in martial arts
over 40 no holds barred fights (before UFC, no gloves, no weight classes, no time limits, where mixed martial arts started)
www.totalsubmissionfightingsystems.com


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## K831 (Aug 1, 2010)

Krav Guy said:


> New school in Phoenix,AZ
> TOTAL SUBMISSION FIGHTING SYSTEMS
> Head instructor, 4th degree black belt in Krav Maga.
> Fight Coordinator/Choreographer for film and television.
> ...



Hmmmm.... what is IPPKM? I've never heard of IPP Krav Maga. 

I'll have to pop in there when I'm back in town.. that is about 5 min from my Kenpo school.


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## Omar B (Aug 1, 2010)

Nice videos, very informative.  But there's something I notice.  A lot of Kenpo instructors I've seen in videos online or in person seem really out of shape.  I wonder why that is?


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## K831 (Aug 1, 2010)

Omar B said:


> Nice videos, very informative.  But there's something I notice.  A lot of Kenpo instructors I've seen in videos online or in person seem really out of shape.  I wonder why that is?



I'm not entirely sure what in this thread you are referring to.. maybe the video I just posted of Mr. Trejo over in the Kenpo forum?

Regardless, I have always found it a little amusing how many senior Kenpo guys have the beer gut. Maybe being able to handle 97% of the population kills your motivation to stay in shape. Ha.


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## girlbug2 (Aug 2, 2010)

They're just following the trend in the rest of America, no doubt.


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## Spork3245 (Aug 2, 2010)

After watching this video of the IPPKM (Israeli Personal Protection Krav Maga, I'm assuming), 



 , I'd be hesitant, as all those fancy kicks and strikes he is doing would get him killed if the guy with the knife was using any type of resistance. Also, the initial knife defense is flat-out wrong as he simply went to grab the arm, which is impossible in a fight as it would require fine-motor movement, something you lose when adrenaline kicks in, all defenses, especially when it's life threatening (like when a knife or a gun is used), must be based upon gross-motor movement. Imi always taught defense against straght-stabs with an L-Block, and then "falling" into the attacker with a grab, and staying tight (shoulder-to-shoulder, and elbow-to-elbow) so you had leverage to control the arm with the knife.


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## Krav Guy (Aug 16, 2010)

K831,
Definitely come by when you have an opportunity. See the difference between us and guys like  spork3245, we have several different techniques for different situations. There is no absolute in Krav Maga, you take what the attacker gives you. If he or anyone else thinks there is only "one" way to defend yourself in any given situation, you're the one who will get yourself killed. Things change extremely fast in an attack or fight. This clip is just one way and actually I do deflect with my forearm prior to grabbing the wrist. 
Have an open mind when seeking a Krav Maga school and instructor, If they (the instructor) spends their time time bashing another school or instructor, there's a reason, usually to sell a membership. Our job is to instruct and educate. Who cares what the other guy is doing? I have all the respect in the world for the other KM federations, just wish they would open up their minds a bit. I teach all types of KM variations. I could also point out some "holes" in IKMF, but I rather teach than point out others so called bad form.
Final word,,,I have several students who have trained IKMF, they seem to not have an issue, and in many techniques we instruct, feel more ours easier to learn and more effective, especially during our "live" drills.


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## MJS (Aug 16, 2010)

This is for Krav Guy.

Could you share with me a little about your organization?  Never heard of IPPKM before, so I was just curious as to what group(s) you're affiliated with.

Mike


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## Krav Guy (Aug 16, 2010)

To MJS,
IPPKM is Intensive Personal Protection Krav Maga. Founder, Alberto Merlo. Israeli consultant to IPPKM is Moshe Katz. I am about a 25% as you would call a "dvd student". The other 75% has been hands on, when I moved to Phoenix, az about 6 years ago, the options were and still are limited in the way of Krav Maga. One school is an hour away and the other is a fitness/krav maga school. My only opportunity to further my knowledge were thru dvds and found Albertos the most effective. I make no claims to being an expert in Krav Maga or self defense. I am still a student and always will be. It just happens that when I started showing friends and coworkers what I was learning, they wanted to learn also. It grew from our backyard to the garage to our present studio. I've been training Law Enforcement, Bail Enforcement, Parole Officers, Bouncers, Security Officers and everyday citizens for the past year. Our schools membership is steadily growing, and trust me I'm not a "marketing" guy like Capt. Chris, Moni Aizek or Darren Levine. So aside from my "dvd student" credentials, I must be doing something right. I was hoping that by joining this forum, it would be a cordial exchange of techniques. I was hoping that if someone saw any of my clips on youtube, someone might suggest a link or technique as a variation, not to bash. If I seem defensive, I am. I'm old school and I don't believe in disrespecting other disciplines or instructors. In other words if you don't have anything nice to say,,,.
And finally, I've been asked to go to Italy to work with Alberto Merlo on his next dvd series. For what it's worth.


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## MJS (Aug 16, 2010)

Thanks for your reply. 

Mike


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## K831 (Aug 16, 2010)

Krav Guy said:


> K831,
> Definitely come by when you have an opportunity. See the difference between us and guys like  spork3245, we have several different techniques for different situations. There is no absolute in Krav Maga, you take what the attacker gives you. If he or anyone else thinks there is only "one" way to defend yourself in any given situation, you're the one who will get yourself killed. Things change extremely fast in an attack or fight. This clip is just one way and actually I do deflect with my forearm prior to grabbing the wrist.
> Have an open mind when seeking a Krav Maga school and instructor, If they (the instructor) spends their time time bashing another school or instructor, there's a reason, usually to sell a membership. Our job is to instruct and educate. Who cares what the other guy is doing? I have all the respect in the world for the other KM federations, just wish they would open up their minds a bit. I teach all types of KM variations. I could also point out some "holes" in IKMF, but I rather teach than point out others so called bad form.
> Final word,,,I have several students who have trained IKMF, they seem to not have an issue, and in many techniques we instruct, feel more ours easier to learn and more effective, especially during our "live" drills.



I'll make it a point to come by when I'm back in town and introduce myself. Probably late Sept. early Oct. We share our Kenpo studio with an MMA group and it isn't far from you guys. You guys are always welcome to stop in and share. Sometimes we do an "open mat" type of thing with other schools where we can share and discuss various approaches. 

I live out in Mesa, so I have popped into the R.E.A.C.T Krav place (Krav Maga World Wide) a few times. You're probably familiar with their program. Regarding martial talk and the sharing/comparing of info, you will find the community in general are very willing. While many of us are quite confident in our associations and arts, we are pretty interested in what others are doing. 

Thanks for the info.


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## Krav Guy (Aug 16, 2010)

K831,
Thanks for the invite and I will definitely take you up on the offer, very interested in the "open mat". Always a student first. Very familiar with REACT, have a few students that came over from them. A few from Cottonwood Combat as well.


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## Spork3245 (Aug 17, 2010)

Krav Guy said:


> K831,
> 
> Definitely come by when you have an opportunity. See the difference between us and guys like spork3245, we have several different techniques for different situations. There is no absolute in Krav Maga, you take what the attacker gives you. If he or anyone else thinks there is only "one" way to defend yourself in any given situation, you're the one who will get yourself killed. Things change extremely fast in an attack or fight. This clip is just one way and actually I do deflect with my forearm prior to grabbing the wrist.
> 
> ...


 


I do not train with IKMF, so I do not care what former students of theirs you train, nor do I know why you are mentioning them. My organization has no schools within Arizona so I am certainly not trying to "sell a membership", as even if there were any of my organization's schools within Arizona, it is not money I would be seeing, so it is irrelevant and I am taking those passive-aggressive comments as an attack on my integrity as an instructor to Imi's system. I train with 2 out of 3 of the original Americans to be trained by Imi from the instructor's course given in Israel in the 1980's, as well as my organization's Grand Master himself (who was appointed by Imi by the way, and is his highest ranked student before retiring), two Chief Instructors from two different countries (Israel and the USA), and not to mention a former Chief Krav Maga, Fire-Arms, and Counter-Terror Instructor from Wingate who is a Sgt. Mjr in the Golani forces and was awarded Israel's "Soldier of the Year" for 2009. I do not know if that was you in the video I posted, but if it was, you are claiming that you "block before grabbing", then why did you NOT do so in the video? Why would you release a video where you are doing a defense Imi came up with, blatently wrong, and then defend it later?

Yes, there is no "absolute" in Krav Maga, I tell my students this all the time. The only thing that is a constant is how the defense starts; "I am here to show you what tools that you have available in situations, and to show you how best to use them, not to tell you which to use.". However, I do not care if you are teaching Krav Maga, Jeet Kun Do, Shotokan, or Taebo - If you are seriously advocating throwing a round-house kick towards the point of a blade and are not expecting to get your femeral-artery punctured, you have no buisness teaching self-defense, and have most-likely never been in a fight involving edged weapons in your life, let alone know anything about them (PS: You'll cut the femeral only if you're lucky... the genetlemen in the video would've probably been castrated dozens of times from the way he was "manuvering", and kicking). Imi would be rolling in his grave if he saw that this was being taught under his system's name, it is an complete disgrace and is up there with Moni Aizik in giving Krav Maga a bad name to the general public.

There is no "absolute" in Krav Maga. I fully agree with you there, but there are also a lot of people that teach you things that simply do not work and give people a false sense of security, what was being shown in that video was just that; Someone who would be killed if they were really attacked by an edged weapon. I do not care who your organization is, who runs it, the history/ties to Imi and his original organization, or even if you're teaching Krav Maga, as long as you teach things that would actually work - That is what matters in the self-defense world, not "showy" or "flashy" movements to "wow" someone who doesn't know any better. 

I am sorry if I'm am coming down "hard" or offending you in any way. I just do not take accusations on my own integrity lightly, especially when you know nothing of it or who I am/train with. I am sorry that you have learned from people who would advocate such "techniques" and somehow be able to convince you that it is the "right path". My school is contracted with the USMC, Army, Air Force, Coast Guard, is the official "system" now being used/taught by the NJ State Police, and various local law-enforcement agencies. We have also (specifically) taught to FBI, CIA, Black Water, US Marshalls, and various organizations of which I am barred from discussing publically... so, we must be "doing something right" as well. 

If you are indeed the gentleman in that video, you are obviously a VERY capable martial-artist, and even if you aren't the man in the youtube clip then it is still clear to me that you are passionate about self-defense training, and I say that with no sarcasm, and am being fully sincere. However, you are being taught things that are simply "wrong". There are "wrong paths" in Krav Maga; They are wrong when they do not work, and would leave you to be harmed/killed, such as kicks toward a knife's edge, or giving up your back for a "mule kick" while attempting to "control" a knife. I actually do have a very open mind and have learned from various forms over the years, and have integrated them with-in my own training and classes. If you are true to your own words about being open-minded, then you are more than welcome to come to my school, the US Headquarters for my organization, when the Grand Master and Chief Israeli Instructor come for a seminar next month - This is not an adverisement, but an invitation, so you can see the difference with your own eyes, as "seeing, is believing"... And no, I am not trying to "convert" you in anyway, just help you to become better - As is my goal with anyone who wishes to learn how to defend themselves. PM me if you are legitmately interested, and I can give you the details, unfortunately I will not be able to do anything regarding the costs, but take safe knowledge in knowing that the money goes to the ones giving the seminar, not myself, and I am infact paying my own way through the course as well. I just need you to understand that I am not some "punk kid" off the street trying to bash other organizations, nor a "purist" who doesn't believe in the system evolving, but that I am a legitimate instructor, with legitmate concerns over what is being taught to people.

Best of luck with your training, and your school.


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## MJS (Aug 17, 2010)

Well, I have a few questions.  Hopefully Spork will comment as well, in addition to KravGuy.  This is about the knife video on the website.

Now, my first question:

1) At 12sec in, it seems as the attacker is holding the blade to the defenders throat.  Defender uses his right hand to push the blade across and then follows up with counters.  While I see that the defender moved back slightly, it would seem to me, that the safer route would be to use your left hand.  

I'm interested in hearing thoughts on that.  

2) I may be wrong in saying this, but it seems as if the defender is still and/or robotic like.  Maybe it just seems that way to me, as the majority of my weapons work is FMA influenced and fluid.

Thoughts, comments, etc?


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## Krav Guy (Aug 17, 2010)

Point taken, appreciate your input. Will look into your instructors dvd series as at this time unable to make a trip to Jersey.


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## Spork3245 (Aug 17, 2010)

MJS said:


> Well, I have a few questions. Hopefully Spork will comment as well, in addition to KravGuy. This is about the knife video on the website.
> 
> Now, my first question:
> 
> 1) At 12sec in, it seems as the attacker is holding the blade to the defenders throat. Defender uses his right hand to push the blade across and then follows up with counters. While I see that the defender moved back slightly, it would seem to me, that the safer route would be to use your left hand.


 
MJS, you are correct as usual. If a knife is being held against your throat, you should always use the hand that is on the same side as the knife (ie: right vs left, left vs right - mirroring). Reaching across takes entirely too much time. Also, it should be noted that if the knife is being held against the trakia by a right hand, and you use your own right to push it off (diagnal), you are running the blade against your throat, regardless of if you turn away or lean-back (think of how a knife is shaped, if the attacker stepped back, his wrist would turn and arm would extend, pressing the blade against the defenders throat again), and will most likely wind-up dead. The proper defense to this is to do, basically, the same technique you would use against a straight-stab to the throat. If the knife is being pointed in the other direction (against the jugular), then you would basically do the defense for a "front choke" (pulling down on the hand with the knife, and going for the attackers eye with your remaining hand).
If you know the techniques I mentioned, try them when the blade is against your throat. I do understand why someone would want to use their right-hand though, especially if they are right-handed.



			
				MJS said:
			
		

> 2) I may be wrong in saying this, but it seems as if the defender is still and/or robotic like. Maybe it just seems that way to me, as the majority of my weapons work is FMA influenced and fluid.


 
Yes, defenses, especially against weapons, need to be done with fluidity for them to be effective, as a real-attacker will be resisting and fighting you at every step of your defense. I constantly yell at my students not break down the movements, and to go as ridiculously slow as they need to, to make the defense "smooth" and reactive. Doing something slow without "hesitation" between movements trains your body not to hesitate, once you are able to do something slow smoothly, you can begin to gradually speed it up. It is a hard habit to break, especially with most students "want" and "expectations" of doing the defenses lightning-fast on their first attempt.


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## Spork3245 (Aug 17, 2010)

Krav Guy said:


> Point taken, appreciate your input. Will look into your instructors dvd series as at this time unable to make a trip to Jersey.


 
No worries my friend, I hope I have not offended you in any way. My only wish is to make people better at defending themselves, not to insult someones ability.


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