# Whipped for wearing a 'deceptive' bra



## Big Don (Oct 18, 2009)

*Whipped for wearing a 'deceptive' bra: Hardline Islamists in Somalia publicly flog women in Sharia crackdown
*


 By  Mail Foreign Service Daily Mail EXCERPT:


A hardline Islamist group in Somalia has begun publicly whipping women for wearing bras that they claim violate Islam as they are 'deceptive'.
The insurgent group Al Shabaab has sent gunmen into the streets of Mogadishu to round up any women who appear to have a firm bust, residents claimed yesterday.
The women are then inspected to see if the firmness is natural, or if it is the result of wearing a bra.
If they are found wearing a bra, they are ordered to remove it and shake their breasts, residents said. 

Al Shabaab, which seeks to impose a strict interpretation of Sharia law over all Somalia, also amputated a foot and a hand each from two young men accused of robbery earlier this month. 

They have also banned movies, musical ringtones, dancing at wedding ceremonies and playing or watching soccer.
'Al Shabaab forced us to wear their type of full veil and now they order us to shake our breasts,' a resident, Halima, told Reuters, adding that her daughters had been whipped on Thursday.
'They  are now saying that breasts should be firm naturally, or just flat.'
Officials of Al Shabaab, which Washington says is Al Qaeda's proxy in the failed Horn of Africa state, declined to comment.  

The group's hardline interpretation of Islamic law has shocked many Somalis, who are traditionally moderate Muslims. Some residents, however, give the insurgents credit for restoring order to the regions under their control.

END EXCERPT
The National Organization for Women was unavailable for comment...
​


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## Flea (Oct 18, 2009)

> The women are then inspected to see if the firmness is natural, or if it is the result of wearing a bra.
> If they are found wearing a bra, they are ordered to remove it and shake their breasts,



Um ...

This one is so obvious there's almost no point in saying it.

But I'll do it anyway.

Anyone else foresee an avalanche of resumes for this job coming in from all over the world?  I'm almost tempted myself ...


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## girlbug2 (Oct 18, 2009)

I'm speechless.


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## CoryKS (Oct 18, 2009)

What's Arabic for "**** or gtfo"?


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## Deaf Smith (Oct 18, 2009)

I honestly feel the Middle East is one of the most physiologically twisted, sexually messed up, schizophrenic areas of the world.

The Muslims in particular have turned their lives into straitjackets. They are so afraid of over 1/2 of their population (women) they don't educate them, dont allow them to drive, dont even allow them to show as much skin as their men cause, duh, it temps the men (but no word about how men temp women!) 

The repression of their education alone guarantees they will never produce the science of the west.

Basically they have made slaves out of one half of their people (and in some regions, make actual slaves out of others.)

And then their religion condones killing of others as good and expected.

Yes it's a real messed up region and religion.

I'd soon as give a nut house the atomic bomb as any of them!

Deaf


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## MA-Caver (Oct 18, 2009)

Deaf Smith said:


> The Muslims in particular have turned their lives into straitjackets. They are so afraid of over 1/2 of their population (women) they don't educate them, don&#8217;t allow them to drive, don&#8217;t even allow them to show as much skin as their men cause, duh, it temps the men (but no word about how men temp women!)


The women aren't tempted at all.. remember? Their clitorises are cut off shortly after they reach puberty or something like that... so that is supposed to repress sexual desire or temptation. 

But you gotta remember that it isn't ALL the muslims that feel this way. Only the radical faithful of the Islamic religion that adhere to the one half of their Koran/Quaran <whatever!> that teach these acts of what we consider barbarism and killing infidels as just and right. 

No I wouldn't give them an atomic bomb unless it was already ticking in their own backyards.

Plus, it's just me but I feel that jokes pertaining to applications to test for bras is rather inappropriate. These women have suffered enough without snide jokes.


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## grydth (Oct 18, 2009)

Piracy = Okay
Deceptive Bras = Not Okay

I understand.


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## Sukerkin (Oct 18, 2009)

Scary how far a region controlled by a violent minority of footsoldiers of a dominant religion can fall, isn't it?


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## Deaf Smith (Oct 18, 2009)

MA-Caver,

And let us not forget they rape virgins before the execute them (their 'religion' says you cannot execute a virgin, thus they rape them beforehand.)

Even during the worst of the dark ages and worst of the Inquisition, they didnt do that.

Deaf


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## MA-Caver (Oct 18, 2009)

Deaf Smith said:


> MA-Caver,
> 
> And let us not forget they rape virgins before the execute them (their 'religion' says you cannot execute a virgin, thus they rape them beforehand.)
> 
> ...


Yes they do and are horrible... to our standards.

Yet are we not just a shorrible to them in their eyes? 

Still if doing a side by side comparison we are far better to our women than they are by far. 

Still I still believe that an oppressed people/sex given enough time will still rise up and fight against their oppressors... may take dozens or may take hundreds or even thousands of years but an oppressed people don't stay that way for long... it's human nature.


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## Bill Mattocks (Oct 18, 2009)

MA-Caver said:


> The women aren't tempted at all.. remember? Their clitorises are cut off shortly after they reach puberty or something like that... so that is supposed to repress sexual desire or temptation.
> 
> But you gotta remember that it isn't ALL the muslims that feel this way. Only the radical faithful of the Islamic religion that adhere to the one half of their Koran/Quaran <whatever!> that teach these acts of what we consider barbarism and killing infidels as just and right.



It is not a Muslim thing.  It does have to do with the area of the world, and it is horrible, but it is not Muslim.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_genital_cutting

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_genital_cutting#Cultural_and_religious_aspects



> The traditional cultural practices of FGC predate Christianity and Islam. A Greek papyrus from 163 B.C. mentions girls in Egypt undergoing circumcision and it is widely accepted to have originated in Egypt and the Nile valley at the time of the Pharaohs. Evidence from mummies have shown both Type I and Type III FGC present.[40] (Note that the earliest evidence of male circumcision is also from Ancient Egypt.)
> *Most Muslims reject this practice in its entirety*, however it remains a tradition within certain countries which was not entirely overcome by the arrival of Christianity and Islam. A lack of religious education among these people leads them to mistakenly believe this ancient tribal practice is a religious observance.


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## Ken Morgan (Oct 18, 2009)

"The only thing required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing."


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## Dave Leverich (Oct 19, 2009)

Somalia just added another check to the 'install glass parking lot' column.


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## elder999 (Oct 19, 2009)

Ken Morgan said:


> "The only thing required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing."


 

The truth or lack of truth (is it really the "only thing?")of this statement notwithstanding, it is a misquote (or poor paraphrasing) misattributed to Edmund Burke in a speech by JFK, and many, many, *many* times since then-fact is, Burke never said it, though he said some things that came close-the closest, in fact, pretty much says (in a bit of poor paraphrasing myself) "_evil *will*, so good men *must*.":_



> *When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle.*" Edmund Burke, _Thoughts on the Cause of Present Discontents_


 
It's likely, in fact, that the "The only thing required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing" line comes from a movie version of Tolstoy's _War and Peace._


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## Bill Mattocks (Oct 19, 2009)

Dave Leverich said:


> Somalia just added another check to the 'install glass parking lot' column.



Not quite that simple.

Somalia is a failed state.  The US and the UN have failed repeatedly to do two critical things there.  The first was to help feed the starving citizens of Somalia, and the second was to check the rise of Al Qaida in Somalia.

The people of Somalia are mostly nominal Muslims, and the current attempted government that the US is favoring is an Islamic government.  Nevertheless, they claim to be moderate and not anti-West.  However, they're not powerful enough to stop the warlords, who are not religion-based at all.  Al Qaida, on the other hand, is quite capable of stopping the warlords, but of course their ability to provide peace and lawfulness comes at a price - serious Sharia law.

There is a good article on Somalia here:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/18/weekinreview/18gettleman.html

We have a national interest in the survival of Somalia, very much as we do in Afghanistan.  Surrendering Somalia to AQ is probably not a good idea.  Nuking the entire place - well, beside the fact that it won't happen, even if we did it, we'd be nuking the citizens of Somalia for the most part, who never did anything to us except starve to death in our presence.  The warlords, yes.  AQ, sure.  Al shabab?  Definitely.  But the workaday people of Somalia are just pawns in this game.


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## Deaf Smith (Oct 19, 2009)

elder999 said:


> It's likely, in fact, that the "The only thing required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing" line comes from a movie version of Tolstoy's _War and Peace._


 
Well Tolstoy knew a thing or two. And with our current Obama-Administration, we are doing nothing.

Deaf


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## Flea (Oct 19, 2009)

MA-Caver said:


> Plus, it's just me but I feel that jokes pertaining to applications to test for bras is rather inappropriate. These women have suffered enough without snide jokes.



MA Caver, you're right.  I was very clumsy about it, but the point I wanted to make was that their methods of investigation leave me _very_ suspicious of their motives in pursuing "public decency."  Nothing more than that.


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## elder999 (Oct 19, 2009)

Deaf Smith said:


> Well Tolstoy knew a thing or two. And with our current Obama-Administration, we are doing nothing.
> 
> Deaf


 

Tolstoy didn't say it-it was a voice-over narration to the movie-in _Russian_.

What would you have "our current Obama-Administration" *do* about this sort of thing?

What the last administration did, or the one before that? :lfao:


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## Big Don (Oct 20, 2009)

elder999 said:


> Tolstoy didn't say it-it was a voice-over narration to the movie-in _Russian_.
> 
> What would you have "our current Obama-Administration" *do* about this sort of thing?
> 
> What the last administration did, or the one before that? :lfao:


The one before that, only accomplished the death of some Rangers.
A better question would be why some third world sh**hole is the responsibility of the Americans or anyone else. We didn't cause their problems, we aren't responsible for fixing them, imho.


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## Ken Morgan (Oct 20, 2009)

It&#8217;s not the responsibility of the US or any other Nation state. It is the responsibility of the citizens of the state so affected.

Outside intervention will often result in opponents &#8220;circling the wagons&#8221;, against a common enemy. Iran for example, it took 30 years of crap for the people to fight back. If the West was to &#8220;do something&#8221; you would see many folks who are ideologically opposites and who are currently fighting each other, coming together to fight a common enemy. 

Most people in the Islamic world are moderate people, all they want is a job, a healthy family and a little bit of fun on weekends. These are the people who will rise up on their own and say enough, and put a stop to the fundamental nonsense. All the west can do is report the news in a mostly unbiased manner, (satellite dishes are in many households), be a role model in its actions and funnel $$ covertly to the opposition.


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## Bill Mattocks (Oct 20, 2009)

Big Don said:


> A better question would be why some third world sh**hole is the responsibility of the Americans or anyone else.



It isn't, per se.  However, AQ is moving in quickly, as it is a power vacuum.  And it sits in a strategic location on the Horn of Africa.  A perfect base for AQ, and they're not stupid, they recognize it.

Our interest in Somalia is strategic.  Ignoring that will cost us.


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## Bill Mattocks (Oct 20, 2009)

Ken Morgan said:


> Most people in the Islamic world are moderate people, all they want is a job, a healthy family and a little bit of fun on weekends. These are the people who will rise up on their own and say enough, and put a stop to the fundamental nonsense. All the west can do is report the news in a mostly unbiased manner, (satellite dishes are in many households), be a role model in its actions and funnel $$ covertly to the opposition.



The moderate Muslims of Somalia are being overrun by outsider AQ people, who are imposing Sharia Law and establishing their terrorist training camps there.  We have a strategic interest in Somalia.


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## Tez3 (Oct 20, 2009)

I can understand calls for our countries 'to do something about it' but as others have said it can't happen. Personally I'd love to put the guys against a wall and shoot them from the feet up ensuring a slow death but other than making me feel beter it won't do any good. 
Our countries can make trade and diplomatic efforts to make them temper their behaviour but rarely does it work, the change must come from inside their countries. One thing I've found to support change is to foster children through charities, things change slowly in places like this but bringing clean water, better healthcare and education is one way to help change things. It may not be much in the grand scheme of things but its better than doing nowt.


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## CoryKS (Oct 20, 2009)

And don't forget to point and laugh.  Mockery and ridicule are often useful for changing behavior.


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## Ken Morgan (Oct 20, 2009)

A strategic interest in Somalia? What is it? If its just a place for possible terrorist bases, theyre number 18 on the list.

I think Muslim extremists are the new communists. Theyre the bogeyman that everyone has to be afraid of. Remember though, while theyre religious fundimentalists, theyre not stupid.

The Islamist fundamentalists dont give two ***** about the West. They want us to attack them, that justifies their rhetoric back home and they gain more local support. They tried for years to get elected in those places that have democracy, but their support maybe hits 10-20%. They want to gain power in their own countries, thats their goal, not the demise of the west. They are using us to shore up political support back home. They want to take over Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Iraq and other places.

The best thing to do is to promote trade, democracy and education in these places. If you are educated and have a job, odds are good youre not going to go out one day and kill people. 

That being said, if there are terrorist bases that are a real threat to us, or our allies, a couple of well placed cruise missiles can be justified.


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## Flea (Oct 21, 2009)

Greg Mortenson has been building schools in Afghanistan since 1996.



> Most people want education, they want a better life ... and they're being hijacked by a few despots, mullahs or imams.  They know that an ignorant society is a controlled society.


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## Tez3 (Oct 21, 2009)

At the moment I'm sponsoring a little Moslem girl in Bangladesh, it's one way to show support for women and girls to show that we appreciate the importance of females. the moeny doesn't go directly to her family but to the community so they have to consider she is contrubting to the community. it helps her to get schooling as the community won't get help unless all can share. It's a small thing as I said before but from small things who knows what can happen, at least one small girl knows there's someone who appreciates her even if my family is far away and we'll never meet.


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