# At what age are you at your best in martial arts?



## Grasshopper22 (Apr 11, 2012)

My Sensei is a 10th Dan in Ju-Jitsu and he's almost 67 and, although he knows incredible amount of martial arts, he's not at his peak of fitness (he's fit but with his age his strength is decreasing etc) so it got me wondering, say if someone started martial arts when they were 15 and trained multiple times every week, at what point would you think the student would hit his climax? Where is the equilibrium between knowledge (because of age (as my Sensei says "you never stop learning")), fitness and strength (because of youth) and at what age do you begin to decrease in strength and stamina?


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## oftheherd1 (Apr 12, 2012)

I think that would vary by individual and by their commitment to stay in the best possible shape.  I think Jhoon Goo Rhee must be in his late 80s or early 90s now.  The last I heard, he was doing 1000 pushups a day, as well as other exercises.


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## Kenlee25 (Apr 12, 2012)

What he said

For example, I plan on staying at least semi fit for the rest of my life, but as I'm only 18 that's a huge commitment to make ( especially considering as one gets older, they generally stop caring about a lot of things they found important in their youth ). But honestly, have you not seen the old guys that still go out running, shirts off with their nasty chests showing? It's hard to look at sure...but they are still probably more fit than most young people. I've even seen a few with 6 packs still. Not to mention, you have 50 plus year old body builders who still stay in incredible shape.

However, honestly, as far as I can tell, with modern medicine and staying fit, you are still young up until you exit your 30s.


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## puunui (Apr 12, 2012)

oftheherd1 said:


> I think that would vary by individual and by their commitment to stay in the best possible shape.  I think Jhoon Goo Rhee must be in his late 80s or early 90s now.  The last I heard, he was doing 1000 pushups a day, as well as other exercises.



GM Rhee turns 80 this year, but he is still doing 1000 push ups and sit ups every day.


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## KempoGuy06 (Apr 13, 2012)

oftheherd1 said:


> I think that would vary by individual and by their commitment to stay in the best possible shape.  I think Jhoon Goo Rhee must be in his late 80s or early 90s now.  The last I heard, he was doing 1000 pushups a day, as well as other exercises.



thats very impressive.

to the OP:

strength and stamina are only part of the equation. speed needs to be a factor as well. 

my instructor is a 2nd degree in SKK, i have him by a long shot on strength and size, our stamina is fairly even but he is much much faster than i am. the speed makes a difference. 

again though speed and stamina go together as well. its basically a triangle training in one will give you some points in the other areas but finding a balance is whats important. this is where your train in the dojo and out comes into play. took me a couple years to realize that i cant rely on just my training to get me in shape and keep me there. i have to run and lift weights as well, that is what works for me.

Like people have said though it will vary depending on the person.

to answer you question, i think it depends on the persons devotion to both their art of choice and their physical health. both are important but when maintaining physical health becomes harder that is where the phrase "Knowledge is power" comes into play.

B


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## Kong Soo Do (Apr 13, 2012)

Grasshopper22 said:


> My Sensei is a 10th Dan in Ju-Jitsu and he's almost 67 and, although he knows incredible amount of martial arts, he's not at his peak of fitness (he's fit but with his age his strength is decreasing etc) so it got me wondering, say if someone started martial arts when they were 15 and trained multiple times every week, at what point would you think the student would hit his climax? Where is the equilibrium between knowledge (because of age (as my Sensei says "you never stop learning")), fitness and strength (because of youth) and at what age do you begin to decrease in strength and stamina?



This is going to differ from person to person.  For men, it is based upon factors such as testosterone as well as their cardio-level.  As far as strength, although a late-teen is usually flowing in testosterone, a man will not hit his strength peak until his 30's.  Sometimes late 30's.  I'm closing in on the half-century mark, but I'm stronger now than I was at half my age.  Certainly much stronger than in my teens.  Much of this is due to my training becoming better and more focused over the years.  Particularly back when I turned 40 which is when I dramatically changed the way I workout.

Going further, look at people such as Tony Horton (P90X).  He's just a tad older than me but his fitness level is far above the majority of men half his age.  He looks terrific.  Same with men like Michael Ferenscik.  

It is all training and diet related.


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## Gemini (Apr 13, 2012)

To the original OP, it depends what you mean by "Best". I was physically more capable in my 30's than my 40's, but I was far more dangerous in my 40's. To answer your question as asked, I don't know because I'm still growing.



Kong Soo Do said:


> Particularly back when I turned 40 which is when I dramatically changed the way I workout.


I think this is going to be true for most people. The alternative is to ultimately falter, which does happen. At any age, your training needs to evolve with your knowledge and capabilities..  



Kenlee25 said:


> For example, I plan on staying at least semi fit for the rest of my life, but as I'm only 18 that's a huge commitment to make ( especially considering as one gets older, they generally stop caring about a lot of things they found important in their youth ). But honestly, have you not seen the old guys that still go out running, shirts off with their nasty chests showing? It's hard to look at sure...but they are still probably more fit than most young people. I've even seen a few with 6 packs still. Not to mention, you have 50 plus year old body builders who still stay in incredible shape.
> 
> However, honestly, as far as I can tell, with modern medicine and staying fit, you are still young up until you exit your 30s.


 You sound so young.


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## Ken Morgan (Apr 13, 2012)

At what age? No idea, I haven't got there yet....


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## gardawamtu1 (Apr 13, 2012)

Ken Morgan said:


> At what age? No idea, I haven't got there yet....



Perfect answer! Shows the forward momentum of life!


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## WingChunIan (Apr 13, 2012)

Personally I think it very much depends upon the martial art. When I trained Muay Thai 40 was considered well and truly over the hill, now I train Wing Chun and some of the most dangerous fighters I've ever met are in their 50's and 60's (some could be in their 70's and just lying!) because the power generation and efficacy of the system are not reliant upon physical strength and condition. It also depends very much on the environment in which you train which can have more effect than age itself. Many people who train martial arts into their later years end up becoming stale because they lack people to train with of their own skill level who can continue to push them to improve (their own students even with the best of intentions are often far too respectful to push them)


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## Cyriacus (Apr 14, 2012)

Any Age at which Youre over 15, and not physically incapacitated.


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## chinto (Apr 14, 2012)

I will tell you a secret about older men and a fight. if you were to get into a fight with a trained older man, He will KILL you. literally. he often has more knowledge and better technique and he knows that he needs to end it. he very well may have been that way before, but by the time they are say 65, they will go strait to cripple and on.

old men fight for keeps, and age and treachery beat youth and skill every time.  they know what you are going to do before you do often as not!


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## Cyriacus (Apr 14, 2012)

chinto said:


> I will tell you a secret about older men and a fight. if you were to get into a fight with a trained older man, He will KILL you. literally. he often has more knowledge and better technique and he knows that he needs to end it. he very well may have been that way before, but by the time they are say 65, they will go strait to cripple and on.
> 
> old men fight for keeps, and age and treachery beat youth and skill every time.  they know what you are going to do before you do often as not!








Also, Your comment made Me realise I could have worded My own Reply better, but thisll do for now.


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## Zero (Jul 18, 2012)

It also depends on what aspects of the martial arts you are considering. Unless consistent training and focus has been maintained (and often even with this), for tournament/competition purposes regarding contact fighting/kumite, by late thirties, or at a push early forties, you are getting beyond your peak with respect to overall endurance/strength/power. Even more importantly, from a recovery perspective after heavy fights, you do not seem to recover or shrug off injuries as easily or as quickly as when you were younger.

Then again, the above is a generalisation and you do get folks such as George Forman putting the gloves back on after twenty years on the bench and handing out a whoopin and holding their own at the top level. But I would say the recovery aspects as to recuperating from injuries still stand.

Out of the ring, where you are not fettered by certain rules which negate some techniques and call for prolonged endurance, its a different matter. In my late mid-late twenties when I would consider myself at my all-around peak on a fight-fit perspective with high skill levels and not bad timing, I could not beat my sensei (older, not as strong, not as fit) as his timing was down perfect. His intuition and ability to read my wa (intentions) - basically he had seen it all - coupled with his timing meant he would beat me. Also, even after lots of speed work, his hand speed was always easily as good as mine.

Again, out of the ring (and outside actual physical or cognitive frailty setting in) as a martial artist in general I am not sure if an age can be put on it; it is very hard to say where age and experience is finally overcome by less experience combined with better strength/fitness.

In my _gut_ I would say that, out of the ring and for street/reality purposes a practitioner who has trained diligently and intelligently since youth in conjunction with ongoing conditioning training would be at their peak (being a mixture of strength, speed, fitness, skill, timing, awareness, experience) at mid/late thirties and should be able to overcome those younger due to their strength and experience and also outfight those older due to their physical condition. A generalisation again, but thats where my money would go.


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## Gentle Fist (Jul 18, 2012)

In Judo, the competitor stage is the teens and twenties.  Some still compete in their 30's but most start to become coaches and instructors.  Due to the high impact on the body from full randori and competitions I don't think many "normal" people can last more than 10 years in the sport portion of judo.

I would say most people feel at their best while competing but the teaching phase is when a person truly becomes enlightened about the inner concepts of Judo.


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## Bill Mattocks (Jul 18, 2012)

Grasshopper22 said:


> ... at what point would you think the student would hit his climax?
> 
> ...and at what age do you begin to decrease in strength and stamina?



You are asking two different questions.  The answer to both depends a lot on the student and a lot on the student's genetics and other external conditions which are not predictable.  In general, fitness levels decrease with age past a certain point.  That does not mean the student has 'hit his climax' in terms of martial arts capability.  They're two different things, and may or may not be linked, depending on the individual.


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## WingChunIan (Jul 19, 2012)

Interesting that this is the self defence portion of the forum and yet almost every poster is answering from a sport perspective.The average street encounter is over in less than a minute from the point that it becomes physical so how much stamina do you think you need? As for strength, if you are training an art that relies on strength maybe look around for something else that will suit you better into old age or change the way you train, as strength will almost definitely fail. Technique and experience and an ability to target the weak points of the human anatomy remove the need for strength in many arts after all how much strength do you need to collapse a trachea or poke out an eye? If you are training in a martial art that is street focused and relies more on technique and subtlety than power and size I strongly believe that there never needs to be a peak until your health fails as long as you maintain your training enthusiasm and surround yourself with training partners who can continually push you to your limits.


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## Bill Mattocks (Jul 19, 2012)

WingChunIan said:


> Interesting that this is the self defence portion of the forum and yet almost every poster is answering from a sport perspective.The average street encounter is over in less than a minute from the point that it becomes physical so how much stamina do you think you need?



Why do you presume anyone trains for self-defense only?  Sport is a valid reason as well.  Or any reason, or none at all.  Martial arts does not have to be focused on self-defense.



> As for strength, if you are training an art that relies on strength maybe look around for something else that will suit you better into old age or change the way you train, as strength will almost definitely fail. Technique and experience and an ability to target the weak points of the human anatomy remove the need for strength in many arts after all how much strength do you need to collapse a trachea or poke out an eye? If you are training in a martial art that is street focused and relies more on technique and subtlety than power and size I strongly believe that there never needs to be a peak until your health fails as long as you maintain your training enthusiasm and surround yourself with training partners who can continually push you to your limits.



I am much stronger than I was as a younger man.  In fact, I just seem to be able to hit harder and harder.  At what point would you suppose I will have 'peaked'?


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