# Lasers?



## Big Don (Dec 30, 2012)

In considering buying a Glock 21 45cal, I came across this






The lasermax guide rod laser sight.
I am intrigued. I have never used a laser sight, only seen them in movies/TV, which, lets face it, isn't the greatest source for accuracy (clearly, if you know me, you know that pun was intended...) 
How well do laser sights work, wouldn't the recoil of a 45 round, or a magazine full, rapid fire, knock that thing silly?
Would an LED flashlight built into a guide rod not be a better choice? You could ID your target in the dark, possibly blinding the bad guy and shoot as normal, using the weapons sights, couldn't you?
I'm not too shabby with a hand gun using the sights provided, but, having never been in a life or death situation with a pistol in my hand, I wonder how accurate my shooting would or wouldn't be and, if a laser sight really performs as seen on TV, well, that would be a major plus.
So, tell me, gun gurus, what is the straight poop on laser sights? What do you think of a guide rod laser sight?


----------



## Big Don (Dec 30, 2012)

Another thing:
If laser sights work as well as depicted, why aren't they provided to the military, and mandated for LEO's? Not to supersede traditional training but, as an aid to ensure only the bad guys get shot, and a hail of police gunfire isn't needed?


----------



## Dirty Dog (Dec 30, 2012)

I've got a Crimson Trace grip mounted laser on my S&W .357 Mag and have had it on there for at least 8-9 years. No problems.

I shoot 3" groups open sight, 2.5" groups with the laser. The more ambient light, the less useful the laser is. In a high stress situation, I think they'd be extremely useful.


----------



## Grenadier (Dec 30, 2012)

A guide rod-based flashlight probably wouldn't be able to put out enough light to make it practical, at least ones that would be based on today's battery and LED technology.  Perhaps in the future, this could be different, but at this time, it's not practical.  


Guide rod-based lasers have an important advantage over frame-mounted lasers, in that they stay fixed, and don't get bumped around.  Also, they don't add any bulk to the weapon.  

As for the laser itself, it's actually quite stable, that they don't get knocked around during firing, and are quite durable as well, being made with a solid state diode that can withstand a lot of wear and tear.  

What I really don't like about the Lasermax unit, though, is that the plastic cap (for the battery) is quite fragile, and if you're changing out the batteries, you have to be *very* careful not to break the plastic cap.  


Regarding the pros and cons of a laser sight...  

The dot of light can certainly help you in low-light situations, and I actually find them to be an excellent training tool for shooters trying to improve their trigger mechanics.  You can see where the dot is moving as they're squeezing the trigger, and it can be a great help in pointing out a quick solution to flaws in their trigger mechanics.  For example, maybe there's too much pressure on the off hand's support, or maybe the shooter is jerking, instead of squeezing, etc.  

For defensive use, though?  I can't really recommend them, since they would only be dead-on in terms of accuracy, for those who have an excellent set of trigger mechanics.  If someone has that good of a set of mechanics, he most likely doesn't need the laser anyways.  Otherwise, if someone has significant flaws in his shooting technique, focusing on the dot of light isn't going to help him, since by the time that trigger has been pulled, the actual point of impact is likely to change.  

Also, in a fight or flight situation, you're going to have adrenaline rushing through you, and the last thing you're going to be concentrating on will be that dot of light due to tunnel vision.  Even law enforcement and military folks will experience this, and trying to get a pinpoint shot using the laser isn't going to be an easy task at all, even for combat veterans.  What you see in the movies *could* work, if you had a shooter who could always keep a cool head, and not be affected by an adrenaline surge, but let's face it; the number of people who can actually do that is exceptionally low.  


My recommendation for a defensive weapon is to have a good set of night sights (I recommend Trijicon or Meprolite; both are good and reasonably priced).


----------



## Big Don (Dec 30, 2012)

I hadn't thought about it as a training tool, but, it could easily show the difference between squeezing the trigger and pulling it...


----------



## Grenadier (Dec 31, 2012)

Big Don said:


> I hadn't thought about it as a training tool, but, it could easily show the difference between squeezing the trigger and pulling it...



It also shows flinching habits, in anticipation of the recoil.  While the target is the ultimate determinant of whether or not someone's flinching, I've found the laser to be quite helpful in showing people that they're anticipating the recoil, and flinching.  

It beats my old method that I would use when training people to fire their first centerfire handgun.  I would take my Glock 17, and load up the magazine with 5 rounds, with a dummy round (snap cap) at the bottom.  I'd have the shooter fire off 5 rounds, and tell him / her to stop after the 5th, and I'd put a dime on the top of the slide (only works with flat slides).  After the shooter tries to fire the next round, if the dime fell off, then you knew they'd be flinching.  

I lost too many dimes that way.


----------



## Sukerkin (Dec 31, 2012)

Couldn't let that 'accuracy' wordplay slide when it just racked up into my sights like that .  Ever happy to see that someone else has a grip on the chequer plate of the English language and who does not recoil from pulling the trigger when a viable target of opportunity pops up .


----------



## Monkey Turned Wolf (Dec 31, 2012)

Is the gun alderaan? No? Then the laser sight makes it better :zap:


----------



## Big Don (Dec 31, 2012)

kempodisciple said:


> Is the gun alderaan? No? Then the laser sight makes it better :zap:



That is awesome


----------



## Tgace (Jan 1, 2013)

For what handguns are designed for...close, quick, dirty rapid fire fights...lasers are not gonna help all too much. 

Some experts (who I agree with) say that the time needed to find and place the dot on the target wont help you in many defensive situations.

In situations like holding subjects at gunpoint there is something to be said for them.....

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2


----------

