# Swine Flu?



## Bob Hubbard (Oct 30, 2009)

13,000 cases of TB, 42,000 car accident deaths, hundreds of thousands of deaths from smoking, but we need to fear "swine flu", the vacine of which has numerous side effects, including several deaths from the so called vacine. Well, if youre dead, you can't get sick huh.

*Congressman Paul on the Recent Swine Flu Scare*

[yt]TB5-Y08qbjo[/yt]




 * Vaccine Reactions *




> Mass Media is NOT publishing the early affects of those around us receiving the poisoned vials. There are reports all over the internet in chat rooms, forums and other social networking sites of people being HARMED and INJURED by this vaccine.
> 
> Yet, no reports by the mass media.


http://vaccine-reactions.blogspot.com/


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## Sukerkin (Oct 30, 2009)

Aye, I hate to be all 'conspiracy theory' but the scale of the scare mongering on Swine Flu, which is a less dangerous form of the virus than nearly any other, has me scratching my head about the dreaded "what is really going on?".


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## Bob Hubbard (Oct 30, 2009)

There are over a dozen deaths from the vaccine, with thousands of cases of complications from it.  But, people are being told it's a "pandemenic" and all that.  So, they are rushing out to get a vaccine, getting sick, and in some cases dying or getting long term problems, so that a few drug companies can make a fortune.  Of course, the drugs are subsidized.

They aren't even considering the risks. It's "I dont want swine flu".  Uh, hello, greater chance of dying in a car accident. Greater chance of getting cancer.  Still don't see em buckling up or quitting smoking, but inject me with toxins, ok, lets do it.

People are fools.

I haven't had a vaccine in over a decade, and refuse get any.  I'll take my chances. 
Considering I was heavily exposed 2 weeks ago and ain't dead yet, I think I'm doing ok.


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## MA-Caver (Oct 30, 2009)

According to one article the First Children aren't being vaccinated. What does THAT tell you?

On regular flu shots I never gotten a sense of foreboding. I never gotten a flu shot because I never really gotten deathly ill or even seriously ill whenever I had the flu. Just sick as a dog for a few days and then it's over. 
But with this vaccine, my own inner alarms and sense of self-preservation went right through the roof as it were. It just didn't-feel-quite-right. Something more sinister ... I dunno. These inner alarms went off even before the big hullabaloo on it all that said DO NOT get vaccinated for this. 

Fear-mongering is a form of control. Getting people to do what you want even en-massed. Manipulating the feelings of the masses has always been effective in getting what you want. 

All of this about the swine flu is just too... :idunno: not-right.


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## Bob Hubbard (Oct 30, 2009)

The seasonal flu is more likely to lead to hospitalization or even death, as it kills roughly 35,000 each year. SARS was a bigger threat. (Source: CDC)

http://health.msn.com/blogs/daily-dose-post.aspx?post=1078442


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## MBuzzy (Oct 30, 2009)

You'll be happy to know that the military is REQUIRED to get the shot.  Both the seasonal and H1N1.


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## Bob Hubbard (Oct 30, 2009)

Want to fight off illness?  Eat right, be in shape, get enough sleep and take a multi vitamin.  It will not keep you 100% illness free, but it will make your body more resistant to what's out there, as that is the common sense info that keeps your imune system working at peak efficiency.


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## crushing (Oct 30, 2009)

MA-Caver said:


> According to one article the First Children aren't being vaccinated. What does THAT tell you?



That someone is lying.  http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2009/10/27/vaccinations-first-family


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## Bob Hubbard (Oct 30, 2009)

MBuzzy said:


> You'll be happy to know that the military is REQUIRED to get the shot.  Both the seasonal and H1N1.


The military is required to get every shot, and often serves as test cases for untested crap.  I personally think it's a disservice to those in uniform to treat them that way.
(yes, I can document that claim, but google turns up hundreds of thousands of links)


"Because I can compel people to get the shots, larger numbers will have the vaccine," said Renuart, commander of U.S. Northern Command. "They will, as a percentage of the population, be vaccinated more rapidly than many of us. So we may see some objective results, good or not, of the vaccinations."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/09/29/AR2009092903771.html


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## crushing (Oct 30, 2009)

Bob Hubbard said:


> *The military is required to get every shot, and often serves as test cases for untested crap.*  I personally think it's a disservice to those in uniform to treat them that way.
> (yes, I can document that claim, but google turns up hundreds of thousands of links)
> 
> 
> ...



Definitely, pyridostigmine bromide tablets come to mind, pills I wish I had tossed in the trash sooner.


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## Bob Hubbard (Oct 30, 2009)

* Unknown Dates - US Navy Serviceman gets Guillian-Bare Syndrome! *


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## Carol (Oct 30, 2009)

Bob Hubbard said:


> * Unknown Dates - US Navy Serviceman gets Guillian-Bare Syndrome! *



OK, but if this was a story about the UK, Tez and Suke would be among the first to jump in and say the Mail is a sensationalist rag or something like that.  :lol:


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## Bob Hubbard (Oct 30, 2009)

Carol Kaur said:


> OK, but if this was a story about the UK, Tez and Suke would be among the first to jump in and say the Mail is a sensationalist rag or something like that.  :lol:


There are over 600,000 hits. I'm sure at least 1 of them will meet everyone's standards for reporting. If that's not enough, there is a person I am directly familiar with who went in and was a lab rat for untested crap, currently fighting for care because he wasn't hurt in a war. Rather, his family is fighting. He's a vegetable on life support. Something to do with his pre-deployment shots for Desert Storm.

*Military Flu Shot Guinea Pigs | The American Freedom Network*


*Military Vets Used  As Research Guinea Pigs - Furious Seasons*


*Pentagon: No More GI Guinea Pigs*

The last link here is to Wired, and has some interesting bits, such as the military: "Infectious bacteria was released into the air above San Francisco. "
Wonder how many civilians got sick from that one.


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## Bob Hubbard (Oct 30, 2009)

*Swine Flu stats (source Yahoo / CDC)*

*more than 1,000 U.S. deaths so far
*Flu illnesses are as widespread now as they are at the winter peak of normal flu seasons
*"Many millions" of Americans have had swine flu so far, according to an estimate he gave at a Friday press conference. The government doesn't test everyone to confirm swine flu so it doesn't have an exact count.
                 *more than 20,000 hospitalizations.
                 *Nearly 100 swine flu deaths in children

US Population: 300,000,000+
# swine flu deaths: 1,000
# all flu deaths avg: 36,000
%population deaths from swine flu : 0.0003%
%population deaths from all flu (avg): 0.012%


*Question*
How many people in the US die each year from all of the various flu's?

*Answer*:
"CDC estimated that about 36,000 people died of seasonal flu-related causes each year, on average, during the 1990s in the United States."



Please note, I am not saying do not get vaccinated.  That's your call.  I'm saying the reliable data says it's highly unlikely that you will die from this, and the healthier you are, the less likely you are to get sick.  That's it. 

The CDC states:


> *What actions can I take to protect myself and my family against both seasonal flu and 2009 H1N1 flu this year?*
> 
> CDC recommends a yearly seasonal flu vaccine as the first and most important step in protecting against seasonal flu. While there are many different flu viruses, the seasonal flu vaccine protects against the three main seasonal flu strains that research indicates will cause the most illness during the flu season. The seasonal flu vaccine can protect you from getting sick from these three viruses or it can make your illness milder if you get a related flu virus. The seasonal flu vaccine will not provide protection against the new H1N1 influenza. However a 2009 H1N1 vaccine is currently being made. The 2009 H1N1 vaccine is not intended to replace the seasonal flu vaccine &#8211; it is intended to be used along-side seasonal flu vaccine.
> In addition, there are everyday actions that can help prevent the spread of germs that cause respiratory illnesses like influenza.
> ...



So, take proper precautions, boost your immune system, and if you do feel sick, see your doctor.  And don't panic.

I'm upping my vit c, eating more greens and trying to get a bit more sleep.


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## MJS (Oct 30, 2009)

The city where I work was offering another free clinic for residents.  So, I call today, and am told that I have to call another number.  So I do.  Nice lady answers the phone, and tells me she has to read the 'qualification' list.  
Needless to say, I met 1 of the requirements, so I am unable to get it, at this time.  Of course, with all of the negative things I'm hearing about it, maybe it was better that it worked out the way it did.


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## Carol (Oct 31, 2009)

I'm not sure which is worse...the panic over the flu, or the panic over the flu shots.  :lol:


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## Bob Hubbard (Oct 31, 2009)

Carol Kaur said:


> I'm not sure which is worse...the panic over the flu, or the panic over the flu shots.  :lol:


both.

There have been say, 20M shots so far.  2000 people have complications, a dozen or 2 died from it.  Odds say, you'll most likely be fine.

Odds also say even without it, you'll most likely be fine.


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## Tez3 (Oct 31, 2009)

I don't know if the flu vaccine we have is the same as yours or not. The problem at the moment where I am is that anything infectious will run rife through the soldiers accomodation and we'll have thousands of soldiers who have to be bedded down. It doesn't matter whether it's flu,a virus, chicken pox, measles or D&V etc, it's a problem on a big scale. The flu may only last days but leaves people weakened for a couple of weeks after that. Having a lot of people out of commision is quite a big problem. The recruits are the most likely to get it first being younger, less fit at the start of their training, tired and probably run down until they are further on in their training. (the unfitnessness, the lack of knowledge of how to eat properly and the general weakness of the young men is a whole other subject lol). 
There's also the problems of soldiers who insist on 'running off' their colds and flu. This endangers their hearts and can leave them with weakened hearts or even heart attacks but the 'macho' guys don't like resting up.


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## shesulsa (Oct 31, 2009)

Bob Hubbard said:


> There are over a dozen deaths from the vaccine, with thousands of cases of complications from it.  But, people are being told it's a "pandemenic" and all that.  So, they are rushing out to get a vaccine, getting sick, and in some cases dying or getting long term problems, so that a few drug companies can make a fortune.  Of course, the drugs are subsidized.
> 
> They aren't even considering the risks. It's "I dont want swine flu".  Uh, hello, greater chance of dying in a car accident. Greater chance of getting cancer.  Still don't see em buckling up or quitting smoking, but inject me with toxins, ok, lets do it.
> 
> People are fools.



Oh, but Bob, the herd immunity factor is worth you risking your neuromuscular health for.  

I have asked this question and as yet have received no answer: If you were an adult, received a vaccination and had a horrible reaction only to be told you have to get it again in the future for the sake of herd immunity and your family and the doctors refuse to find out what exactly happened to you, what would you do?  No one wants to say out loud that they would not get another shot until they found out what happened.  But it's okay if those people yell at people like you and me who don't race towards the latest, greatest vaccination serum.  Herd immunity, you know.



> I haven't had a vaccine in over a decade, and refuse get any.  I'll take my chances.
> Considering I was heavily exposed 2 weeks ago and ain't dead yet, I think I'm doing ok.



I would advise you to do something about your tetanus immunity.  From my own research, I can tell you that once you get it, the only thing that can really be done for you is symptom relief.  It is quite deadly.  If you react to the vaccination ... well, if you can find an immunologist who will work with you on finding out why (and since you're an adult investigating your own immunity, it will be much easier) then I would advise you to please do it.  I react to the diphtheria portion of the standard tetanus shot so I must special-order Tetanus Toxoid, pay for it out-of-pocket and get the shot every 5 years and with all we've been through with shots in my family, I have to say I'm glad to do it.



MA-Caver said:


> According to one article the First Children aren't being vaccinated. What does THAT tell you?



I wouldn't trust any information whatsoever about what the First Children are or are not getting no matter the source.  Their privacy is tantamount to the security of the POTUS.



MBuzzy said:


> You'll be happy to know that the military is REQUIRED to get the shot.  Both the seasonal and H1N1.



Our soldiers are treated like guinea pig poop and it pisses me off.  They have to get everything and, of course, with no screening.


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## shesulsa (Oct 31, 2009)

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Many of the parents of the 1 in 120 children who have been harmed somehow by vaccines think it's not quite so rare after all.


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## Jade Tigress (Oct 31, 2009)

It seems like this happens almost every year with a different virus. Bird flu anyone? I've never gotten a flu shot, nor have my children.


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## The Last Legionary (Oct 31, 2009)

Seems that some of our leaders own stock in the companies making the vaccine. Interesting that we now 'need' what they have a vested interest in selling.


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## Monadnock (Oct 31, 2009)

Yep. Was bird flu last time. Now its pig flu. Anything for the media to scare up some advertising, as well as let the gov't try out some new laws on forcing the public to do what it says.

Also:

The shots contain "25,000 times the level of mercury than would be considered toxic if it was in food or water"


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## Bob Hubbard (Oct 31, 2009)

Good enough for me to skip it.


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## sadantkd (Oct 31, 2009)

I'm stuck at home with swine flu right now.  It really isn't very serious as an illness goes.  The only thing about it is that is't pretty contagious.  I don't remember the last time I ever had the flu, and I haven't had a vaccine since I was a young child.  I was the 6th person from my taekwondo school to come down with it.

All in all, I do think it's blown way out of proportion, but that's pretty much the standard operating procedure with today's media.


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## shesulsa (Oct 31, 2009)

I've had influenza three times that I can recall. I had the Russian flu when I was ten or eleven when that was going around.  My mother and I were stuck in bed with it from Thanksgiving weekend through mid-January.  It was not pretty.

I had it again in 2001 I think, but other factors really kept my immunity down - major stressors, a knee injury and the wrong medication.  Advair helped me get pneumonia with that go-around and every other chest cold I got ... so a couple years later, I got off of Advair completely.

Then two years ago, we all had the omigod-I-can't-move-a-muscle flu. Had us all down for a week.  Probiotics, tons of fluids, electrolytes and Robitussin did wonders for us - plus SOUP SOUP SOUP SOUP SOUP! Homemade, of course all helped get us better and they help keep us well.

Sanitizing often-touched surfaces in our home and being meticulous about hand-washing also helps prevent MOST communicable disease.


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## Carol (Oct 31, 2009)

shesulsa said:


> [yt]mh5F5wP8RdU[/yt]
> 
> Many of the parents of the 1 in 120 children who have been harmed somehow by vaccines think it's not quite so rare after all.



Or that the issues are psychogenic.  Jenny McCarthy and Jim Carrey's organization reached out to Desiree Jennings during the middle of the month and set up a web page for her.....before the end of the month the web page was down and any reference to Jennings were gone from their website.


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## ronagle (Oct 31, 2009)

Sukerkin said:


> Aye, I hate to be all 'conspiracy theory' but the scale of the scare mongering on Swine Flu, which is a less dangerous form of the virus than nearly any other, has me scratching my head about the dreaded "what is really going on?".



For the record, I got my h1n1 shot yesterday, I feel fine so the naysayers can get over it.


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## ronagle (Oct 31, 2009)

Bob Hubbard said:


> Want to fight off illness?  Eat right, be in shape, get enough sleep and take a multi vitamin.  It will not keep you 100% illness free, but it will make your body more resistant to what's out there, as that is the common sense info that keeps your imune system working at peak efficiency.




Prevention: jug of water in the fridge, I dump one airborne tablet into it as well.


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## Big Don (Oct 31, 2009)

ronagle said:


> Prevention: jug of water in the fridge, I dump one airborne tablet into it as well.


This Airborne? So, you're relying on luck then...


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## Tez3 (Oct 31, 2009)

ronagle said:


> For the record, I got my h1n1 shot yesterday, I feel fine so the naysayers can get over it.


 
Good for you! No one here is being forced to get it and while it's publicised there's no 'panic' in the British media about it. Vulnerable people such as the elderly, asthmatic, already ill, low immune systems etc are offered flu jabs every year. The jabs are adapted to whatever flu is going around that year. It does save lives no doubt.


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## Bob Hubbard (Oct 31, 2009)

Report suggests people who get vaccinated are more likely to catch H1N1


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## grydth (Oct 31, 2009)

Well, this one's now personal as my 14 year old daughter has it.

I respect your opinions, and your decisions as to what does or does not go into your body. We're using a lot of the home remedy measures you mention.... but then, that's all we have.

We would've used the vaccine, a completely academic point because it has never been available here. At least not to those without special connections. 

This virus (and others) has been running rampant in the schools here in the last week... which were kept open, when in May they were closing for one case. Our tool of a Health Commissioner now says the vaccine will be here in late November..... who the * will need it _then?

_Also found there's a Catch 22 with Tamiflu.... they will only give it out if the child is very sick.... of course, by the time my daughter gets to that point it will be too late for it to be of any use. Again, thanks for nothing.

How much money was spent on a vaccine that will only be available _after_ the pandemic? What a waste, what a failure.

 As somebody on another forum mused, what'd be said now if *Bush *were the President?

Ultimately, I have to put my trust in the virus.... that it won't become what it did in 1918...... and in what I can do.

I'm thinking I see the future of health care right here - lots of money spent, plenty of government bombast - and nothing meaningful there for my family when we need it.


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## Ken Morgan (Oct 31, 2009)

I and my children have been vaccinated for everything under the sun, and every year we get our flu shot. This year we will get the H1N1 and the normal influenza shot. Never been an issue or a problem.

Lets see now small poxs is gone, it killed millions every year and is gone.
Polo is essentially gone, except for those who do not immunize their children.
Measles, mumps and Rubella would be gone if everyone vaccinated their kids.

We are almost 7 billion people and are living longer today for two reasons and two reasons only. Antibiotics and immunization. 

You of course have a right, depending on your job, not to get an immunization shot, but you do so at your own risk.


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## Ken Morgan (Oct 31, 2009)

grydth said:


> Well, this one's now personal as my 14 year old daughter has it.


 
I hope your daughter gets well soon.


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## Bob Hubbard (Oct 31, 2009)

grydth said:


> Well, this one's now personal as my 14 year old daughter has it.



Speedy recovery to her.


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## Tames D (Oct 31, 2009)

ronagle said:


> For the record, I got my h1n1 shot yesterday, I feel fine so the naysayers can get over it.


 
Yesterday? and you feel fine? Check back in a couple of years. I WANT to know the long term effect of this drug before I "can get over it".


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## Tames D (Oct 31, 2009)

MBuzzy said:


> You'll be happy to know that the military is REQUIRED to get the shot. Both the seasonal and H1N1.


 
Why the **** would I be happy to know that?


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## Tames D (Oct 31, 2009)

Ken Morgan said:


> I and my children have been vaccinated for everything under the sun, and every year we get our flu shot. This year we will get the H1N1 and the normal influenza shot. Never been an issue or a problem.
> 
> Lets see now small pox&#8217;s is gone, it killed millions every year and is gone.
> Polo is essentially gone, except for those who do not immunize their children.
> ...


 
Yes. and I'll excercise my right not to get the "immunization" shot. A "risk" I'm willing to take. I wish you and your family the best of health.


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## Tames D (Oct 31, 2009)

Ken Morgan said:


> .Lets see now small pox&#8217;s is gone, it killed millions every year and is gone.


 
I'm sorry, but I'm weak in this part of history. I realize that small pox is gone, but did everyone get the vaccination? Everyone in the world? Was it required? Again, I apologize for my lack of knowledge in this area.


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## Bob Hubbard (Nov 1, 2009)

> During the 20th century, it is estimated that smallpox was responsible for 300&#8211;500 million deaths.[7][8][9] In the early 1950s an estimated 50 million cases of smallpox occurred in the world each year.[10] As recently as 1967, the World Health Organization estimated that 15 million people contracted the disease and that two million died in that year.[10] After successful vaccination campaigns throughout the 19th and 20th centuries, the WHO certified the eradication of smallpox in December 1979.[10] To this day, smallpox is the only human infectious disease to have been completely eradicated.[11]



However....



> Responding to international pressures, in 1991 the Soviet government allowed a joint US-British inspection team to tour four of its main weapons facilities at Biopreparat. The inspectors were met with evasion and denials from the Soviet scientists, and were eventually ordered out of the facility. In 1992 Soviet defector Ken Alibek confirmed that the Soviet bioweapons program at Zagorsk had produced a large stockpile&#8212;as much as twenty tons&#8212;of weaponized smallpox (possibly engineered to resist vaccines), along with refrigerated warheads to deliver it. It is not known whether these stockpiles still exist in Russia. In 1997, however, the Russian government announced that all of its remaining smallpox samples would be moved to the Vector Institute in Koltsovo.[66] With the breakup of the Soviet Union and unemployment of many of the weapons program's scientists, there is concern that smallpox and the expertise to weaponize it may have become available to other governments or terrorist groups who might wish to use virus as means of biological warfare.[67]


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## grydth (Nov 1, 2009)

Well wishes much appreciated!

What infuriates me as a father is to have seen all the government boasting about vaccine production and Tamiflu stockpiles - all at enormous financial cost - yet, when faced with my child getting a virus of unknown lethality, there is absolutely NOTHING available for my family.


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## Tez3 (Nov 1, 2009)

History of smallpox. the first vaccine was discovered by Janner in 1792.
http://dermatology.about.com/cs/smallpox/a/smallpoxhx.htm

Flu jabs have been used here for many years, I've had them and suffered no side effects. Polio is another disease that vaccination has made for most a thing of the past apart from those who considr vaccination a 'bad thing'. TB is on the rise again though because of peoples unwillingness to be vaccinated. Measles is a very nasty disease which most don't consider as anything more than a simple childhood ailment. Vaccines for these have been around for decades.
Tamiflu is avaible here for any the who need it and innoculatons started a couple of weeks ago for the vulnerable and is now available for any who want it.


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## Monadnock (Nov 1, 2009)

Small pox is still very much still here. We just don't catch it.

Also, for those looking at the shot versus the spreay for H1N1:

http://www.wicz.com/news2005/viewarticle.asp?a=11108

For New York state:  However, the department of health says close to 380,000 doses of the thimerosal-free vaccine is expected to be available in the state by late November.


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## Ken Morgan (Nov 1, 2009)

Monadnock said:


> Small pox is still very much still here. We just don't catch it


 
Evidence please


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## Ramirez (Nov 1, 2009)

Ken Morgan said:


> I and my children have been vaccinated for everything under the sun, and every year we get our flu shot. This year we will get the H1N1 and the normal influenza shot. Never been an issue or a problem.
> 
> Lets see now small poxs is gone, it killed millions every year and is gone.
> Polo is essentially gone, except for those who do not immunize their children.
> ...



 Exactly,  I and my family get every possible vaccine there is.

  I really don't understand how anyone can question the value of vaccines when the incredible benefits of them have been proven without a doubt.  

  Not only that, vaccines do not work on everyone ,  some people do not have an immune response.  To wipe out diseases like polio, small pox etc. there has to be a minimum percentage of the population getting the immunization.

  If the flu shot were mandatory, there wouldn't be a problem with the flu every year.


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## Bob Hubbard (Nov 1, 2009)

Ken Morgan said:


> Evidence please


US and former Soviet bio-weapon stockpiles, various research labs and government installations still maintain active samples. It exists, but your chance of catching it in the general populace is close to nil.


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## shesulsa (Nov 1, 2009)

The biggest danger exists in catching these diseases during travel to other countries where vaccination isn't mandated or available or too expensive or whatever and from people immigrating from those countries who can carry the disease.

Believe me, I am for *safe* vaccination. I absolutely and fervently believe in it - but I also believe the mass production is doing something else to our "herd immunity" and general health and attention to details needs to be paid.

I'm not saying don't get vaccinated ... I'm saying be aware and be careful about any immunization you put in your body.


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## Ramirez (Nov 1, 2009)

One of the vaccines available now that wasn't when I was a child is a chicken pox vaccine.

 I wish it had been available,  I had shingles last year around my eye, my doctor took it  very seriously, said that it could go on the cornea of my eye and I could go blind and put me on an anti-virals right away.


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## Bob Hubbard (Nov 1, 2009)

Some comments from a blog.



> For instance: the new H1N1 innoculation everyone's getting. In Canada we're using two formulas: a non-adjuvanted vaccine for pregnant women & very young children, and the normal adjuvant-bearing one, that boosts the effectiveness of the shot. According to the NIAID this is generally done for one of three reasons: "1) to boost the immune response in certain age groups or in people with underlying health conditions who can not mount an adequate immune response to a vaccine made without adjuvant; 2) to broaden the immune response to a vaccine to provide better protection against a virus if it mutates; and 3) to stretch the vaccine supply if it is limited."
> 
> So what is this magical adjuvant? _*Squalene*_, a compound derived from shark liver oil -and generally sold in health food stores! In vaccinations squalene prompts the production of C4 memory cells, which in turn promotes a stronger immune response. ), and _*DL-&#945;-tocopherol*_ (a form of vitamin E- though many of the articles around are mislabelling it as Vitamin D for some odd reason). Sounds like an endorsement to me
> 
> ...


(Note: bold links are mine)

*Thimerosal in Seasonal Influenza Vaccine*




> *Does the influenza vaccine contain thimerosal?*
> 
> *Yes*, the majority of influenza vaccines distributed in the United States currently contain thimerosal as a preservative. However, some contain only trace amounts of thimerosal and are considered by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) to be preservative-free. Manufacturers of preservative-free flu vaccine use thimerosal early in the manufacturing process. The thimerosal gets diluted as the vaccine goes through the steps in processing. By the end of the manufacturing process there is not enough thimerosal left in the vaccine to act as a preservative and the vaccine is labeled "preservative-free".
> *How much thimerosal-free influenza vaccine is expected to be available for the 2008-09 season?*
> ...



See also 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thiomersal_controversy


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## Gordon Nore (Nov 12, 2009)

Grydth,

I quoted you from another thread and placed it here as I didn't want to derail the Black Friday discussion with H1N1.



grydth said:


> At least you guys _have_ innoculations in Canada - my daughter was out a week with flu (and I home with her), hundreds in the schools have it, a friend is in hospital, there are multiple absences starting at my workplace and we are told - Hooray! Vaccine will be here _*- in December.  *_



I can't speak for what's going on in other provinces -- each of which is working its strategy with the feds, but the vaccine has not yet been made available to all members of the general public. Here in Toronto we're nearing the end of the second week of injecting high risk people:



> H1N1 shots are available to people in priority groups.
> 
> 
> People under 65 with chronic health conditions
> ...



During the first week, there were only four sites open; now, I believe, there are ten to twelve at various times. It's probably going to be close to December before the general population can get inoculated. Evidently, there have been supply problems. I think there's a growing sense of frustration here, none of which excuses the abusive behaviour that has been reported in some of the line ups.

For Toronto, this is kind of an open sore. Remember, we had a SARS outbreak in the early 2000s that many felt was mismanaged. Vancouver had, at the same time, managed to contain their initial outbreak. Due to some foul up in communications, Toronto authorities thought they had it licked, only to discover a second outbreak in the general population. It wasn't typhoid, but it was bad enough, and there was an expectation that municipal, provincial and federal authorities would learn from it, use the lead time they had from the first H1N1 cases last spring, and be well prepared.



> I'm not typing this during work. I'm home.... another sick child!


Sorry to here that. Take care.


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## KELLYG (Nov 12, 2009)

Bizarre thought!

The people that I work with that are 25ish did not get the small pox vaccination.  They are in the "high risk" group while I at 45 am not, and had the small pox vaccination.  I was just wondering if some of the vaccines that we were required to take, that the younger crowd did not have to take, has given us older guys a leg up on this deal? 

Told Y'a it was Bizzare


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