# Noob for nerves ^^



## Antem (Dec 30, 2009)

Hey all im a major newbie to the world of martial arts, and im really interested to get into it. I know there are tonnss of other posts like this so im sorry if ive broken any rules. But id really appreciate if someone could help me out. 
Most of all ive been interested in the martial arts that involves sharp jabs to certain areas of the body, i believe on nerve clusters i cant be sure. Sorry if this is just some fabricated thing ive found on the net. Also im trying to choose a martial art, so if that "nerve attacking" Martial art doesnt exist. Could anyone recommend a martial art that involves grace and fluid movements? I really appreciate anyone's help thanks alot ^^
~Antem


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## Xue Sheng (Dec 30, 2009)

Baguazhang

graceful, fluid and effective


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## wushuguy (Dec 30, 2009)

many martial arts will include nerve strikes, however it isn't usually disclosed until much later in training... often finding out the spots you practiced to hit were meridian points and nerve centers. Wing Chun is a good example of that. Where are you located? perhaps some one on the forum can recommend a school close to you.


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## wushuguy (Dec 30, 2009)

Xue Sheng said:


> Baguazhang
> 
> graceful, fluid and effective



let's also not forget the addictive xing yi quan ;-)


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## Bill Mattocks (Dec 30, 2009)

Antem said:


> Hey all im a major newbie to the world of martial arts, and im really interested to get into it. I know there are tonnss of other posts like this so im sorry if ive broken any rules. But id really appreciate if someone could help me out.
> Most of all ive been interested in the martial arts that involves sharp jabs to certain areas of the body, i believe on nerve clusters i cant be sure. Sorry if this is just some fabricated thing ive found on the net. Also im trying to choose a martial art, so if that "nerve attacking" Martial art doesnt exist. Could anyone recommend a martial art that involves grace and fluid movements? I really appreciate anyone's help thanks alot ^^
> ~Antem



There are many arts that use attacks on nerve clusters of the body.  Not many use them exclusively, and I am not an expert, so I'll leave a listing of them to others here; I'm sure they will be forthcoming.

Many martial arts involve various kinds of defenses, including pressure points, nerve cluster attacks, joint locks, and traditional strikes, kicks, blocks, throws, and evasion.

One is tempted to ask what your purpose is in asking to learn a martial art that is exclusively devoted to attacking nerve clusters?  While they can be quite effective, some criticisms they often receive is that they require the touch of a master to apply correctly; some people do not respond to nerve cluster attacks as well as others (including those on drugs or alcohol); and that in a defensive situation, it can be difficult to get an attacker to present those nerve clusters at an opportune time.  It would seem to me that it would be important to have other means of defending oneself as well.  But I am also a newbie, so feel free to disregard this.


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## jks9199 (Dec 30, 2009)

Nerve strikes exist in a lot of martial arts, but they are generally considered advanced techniques because they require a lot of accuracy.  SStart by looking at the arts you have available in your area, and ask the instructors if their art includes them.


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## Xue Sheng (Dec 30, 2009)

wushuguy said:


> let's also not forget the addictive xing yi quan ;-)


 

Nah, that's not Graceful ... just effective :EG:


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## Antem (Dec 30, 2009)

Thanks for all the quick replies guys and ill be sure to look at the suggestions you offered me. Well the reason i was looking at this is because it seems interesting to me, and well as you guys said. It takes skill, now i know id have to work hard and also have a basis to work up then learn it later. But i figure i can set it as a goal. Again thanks for all your help guys, and if anyone has any suggestions feel free to post em 
EDIT: Thanks for the link to: baguazhang That helped alot and looks very interesting.


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## Chris Parker (Dec 31, 2009)

Hi Antem,

Okay, before I get to the real advice, I'll try to cover what you have asked outwardly (by that I mean that what you ask is usually different to what you want to really know, but we'll get to that).

The concept of "nerve-striking" systems is most commonly a misinterpretation of the Dim Mak concept, or the Kyusho concept (Chinese and Japanese variations there). The old story of the origin of Dim Mak is of a Chinese Martial Artist and Doctor who would practice striking the healing points he knew from his medical training in various ways (most commonly it is said that he used condemned prisoners to "practice" on), as he knew from experience that he could influence the flow of internal energy by stimulating the meridians and points in different ways. By stimulating the point in one way, the flow increased, in another it slowed. So what would hitting it do? Well, the results ranged from discomfort, to pain, to damage, to death. The doctor also used his training to develop resuscetations and recouperations from being hit in these places, as much as he could, but for the points that left the victim deceased, there was no fix. These became known as Irretrievable Death Point Strikes, later refered to as Dim Mak.

A quick note on these points. They have been covered in mystique and myth for generations, leading to tales of "if you touch the other person in this place at two am on a full moon, then two days later they will drop dead and there will be no trace as to why..." Not exactly realistic. Most of the "death strikes" are just simple things like crushing a throat, a good, solid hit to a highly vulnerable spot. There are high-level aspects in which timing is important, but leave the myth aspect behind.

This knowledge has formed the base of many arts, such as Hsing-I, Ba Gua, and Taiji Chuan, however I feel that that has more to do with the cultural philosophies of energy channels and meridians, so the idea and concept of effective targetting was simply described in a manner that the Chinese people studying could immediately relate to (however, being Westerners, we are not brought up with the same cultural ideas, so it becomes "mystical" and "exotic" to us, which simply adds to the appeal for many people).

Within Japanese arts, this targeting concept is refered to as Kyushojutsu. It is found in most arts, ranging from Koryu systems (armed and unarmed, armoured or not, and changing for the particular system based on what was commonly available as a target at the time) through to being present in more modern arts like Judo, Aikido, and Karate. Whether or not openly taught or discussed is dependant on the teacher and art, but if it has targeting, it's there. And if you're just being taught to swing wildly, I may suggest another school. Within the Ninjutsu community, for instance, it is very openly discussed, with a number of our schools including a kyusho chart or list in the transmissions, within most Karate schools it is more a high level teaching, but is certainly still there. The Bubishi is a classic text which covers this aspect of Karate for example.

Now, we'll move on a bit. As stated, any school that teaches targeting is teaching you this idea in some form (even boxing, going for a knock out punch, whether to the point of the chin, or a body knock out, is just a variation of this very concept, expressed in a Western understanding of anatomy rather than an Eastern philosophical phrasing, and restricted based on the requirements of the system such as the gloves and legal targeting). So I wouldn't be too concerned about a specific art. I would rather invite you to look around your local area and see what arts are being taught. Then visit as many schools as you can, talk with the instructor, and go with the one who you feel the best about (what he or she is teaching, how they interact with the students, how the entire school feels etc). This is your best bet, and will give you the most positive launch into martial arts. Of course, if one art speaks to you more, look to that first, if it is available, but don't discount anything else.

Now we'll get to the crux of the matter. Why do people start martial arts? What draws them in? Well, in a lot of cases, it is a feeling of a lack of personal power, or control over things. So in order to get that feeling of power, people look for what they percieve as being powerful, and unfortunately these days a lot of that perception comes from things like movies and video games (small aside, I was watching a documentary on XMA last night, now, I'm a self confessed martial arts snob, but those guys make me damn angry. That is the ultimate in movie fantasy based "martial arts". That ain't martial arts, it's gymnastics, and that guy throwing his "katana sword" up in the air so it spun around said one more word about how he did itout of respect for the weapon and for the samurai of old, I was going to throw something at the screen! Then I remembered I could chagne channel, and the world brightened... okay, got that off my chest!). Coming from such a source leaves gaps in reality, and can lead people to search for things that aren't there, or are there in such a different way that no matter how impressive it isin reality, it just doesn't match up to the movie in your head. 

When it comes to things like "pressure point striking" and similar, this is not uncommon. A touch of reality, though. Targeting is vitally important in martial arts, but it's only part of the entire equation. This is why you have been advised that many arts will include it, but there isn't an art that is just striking points. And it should always be remembered that striking these points is not a magic formula for success or devestating power, you can miss, and the opponent could not feel the effects as much as you hope due to alcohol, drugs, or just plain old fashioned adrenaline. In the dojo these tactics have a much greater result than they will on the street. Just so you know.

So what are you really looking for? Well, if you are asking about nerve strikes, then typically you are feeling (most commonly unconsciously) powerless against a potential opponent, and are looking for a way to feel safe, secure, and powerful. You are most likely not the biggest guy (neither am I, actually), and are looking for a way to overcome the feeling of being powerless that that can bring. Cool. The thing to do here is to realise that you are looking for these unconscious feelings to be looked after, and that is done by chosing an instructor you can respect and learn from, whether they teach specific nerve strikes or not.

Hope this made some sense to you.


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## Antem (Dec 31, 2009)

Thanks alot Chris, that is alot to take in and i think ill need to ponder it for a fair while. And what you said i think is rather true, i will have a look at local Schools and see how they match up to what i want and feel. Thank you alot for your time and the suggestions/advice you offered.


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## Chris Parker (Dec 31, 2009)

No problem. I do tend to go on a bit, hope it wasn't too much.

Now, I'm going to say something here, and believe me, this is very friendly, and quite important, even though it's going to sound rather nit-picking.

Always use an upper case "I" for yourself. Never use a lower case "i". It shows a lack of self esteem and confidence. Always use an upper case "I", you as an individual deserve that respect, from yourself and from others. Always use an upper case "I".

Believe me, this goes far beyond speed of typing, it is showing an underlying belief in yourself (or lack thereof). It just doesn't take that long to hold down the shift key, you do when you start a sentence every time, now you just need to apply that to yourself.

All the best with everything, let us know if you need anything else answered.


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## Antem (Dec 31, 2009)

No thank you, it was fine. I do see where your coming from and its not nit-picky, ill try and incorporate this as I type from now on. Just that extra boost to self confidence thanks for the tip. I do have another question if its not to much trouble i posted it here: 
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=83371


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## Chris Parker (Dec 31, 2009)

Yeah, I saw your question. In answer, yes it has self defence capabilities, but you need to find an instructor who knows how to find that in the system, and they can be very rare. But there are some very experienced practitioners of the art here who do train it in such a fashion, so I'm leaving that thread for them to answer. They can help you find someone, hopefully local to you.


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## Antem (Dec 31, 2009)

Thanks again Chris, I hope they drift by my thread and help me out. It seems like something I would be very interested in pursuing.


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## K831 (Dec 31, 2009)

Antem,

Where in Australia are you? I have a couple of buddies living in your part of the world, both who train regularly. Maybe they are familiar with your area and can suggest some schools/styles.


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## Antem (Dec 31, 2009)

Ah thanks for the help guys but im pretty sure im all set in that regard. Thanks tons for the offer to help aye i really appreciate it, but im not to comfortable revealing my location. Seriously nothing against anyone. Just yer. But if you have any suggestions on that feel free. Sorry again but thanks. I really dont mean to offend anyone here seriously, so please dont take it in that fashion i really appreciate the help.


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## K831 (Dec 31, 2009)

Antem said:


> Ah thanks for the help guys but im pretty sure im all set in that regard. Thanks tons for the offer to help aye i really appreciate it, but im not to comfortable revealing my location. Seriously nothing against anyone. Just yer. But if you have any suggestions on that feel free. Sorry again but thanks. I really dont mean to offend anyone here seriously, so please dont take it in that fashion i really appreciate the help.



I don't take offense where none is meant. No biggie.


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## Xue Sheng (Dec 31, 2009)

Antem said:


> Ah thanks for the help guys but im pretty sure im all set in that regard. Thanks tons for the offer to help aye i really appreciate it, but im not to comfortable revealing my location. Seriously nothing against anyone. Just yer. But if you have any suggestions on that feel free. Sorry again but thanks. I really dont mean to offend anyone here seriously, so please dont take it in that fashion i really appreciate the help.


 
:jaw-dropping: WHAT!!!

Not comfortable :xtrmshock

Well I never heard of such a thing. 

:idunno: I have no problem at all telling everyone exactly where I'm located 

You can find me here on the Earth's surface - North American Tectonic Plate :ubercool: 


Well... now that I got that off my chest. 

I have no idea how close you are to Canberra Australia but there is a good Bagua school there somewhere. One of our past mambers, Steel Tiger was training there


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## jks9199 (Dec 31, 2009)

Antem said:


> Ah thanks for the help guys but im pretty sure im all set in that regard. Thanks tons for the offer to help aye i really appreciate it, but im not to comfortable revealing my location. Seriously nothing against anyone. Just yer. But if you have any suggestions on that feel free. Sorry again but thanks. I really dont mean to offend anyone here seriously, so please dont take it in that fashion i really appreciate the help.


You're not required to post your location -- but giving at least a general area lets people know something about what might be in your area.  Look at my public location; it's an area comprising at least 4 counties, several cities and towns... (and more depending on who you ask) but it's narrow enough that people in Maryland or Delaware know I'm kind of close -- and people in California know that I'm nowhere near them.


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## K831 (Jan 1, 2010)

jks9199 said:


> You're not required to post your location -- but giving at least a general area lets people know something about what might be in your area.  Look at my public location; it's an area comprising at least 4 counties, several cities and towns... (and more depending on who you ask) but it's narrow enough that people in Maryland or Delaware know I'm kind of close -- and people in California know that I'm nowhere near them.



That's a good way to do it. People can be much more helpful, without you having to feel compromised. 

At this point, I have posted the city I am in several times on this board. Traded phone numbers with people, and gotten together for sparring sessions. I realized I was more concerned about being followed home by the weirdo who thinks I cut him off in the walmart parking lot that another MA'st on this board trying to find me in a city of 400,000.... but that is just me.


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