# Dinosaurs, Dead Beats, and lazy bones



## Mickey (Aug 22, 2002)

How many times have you listened to someone who left their art / club / etc, say I knew him when he was , pick color belt here, and I cannot believe that he has been promoted to: pick any rank here?


These guys that leave and do not train and then come back and hang around with their old instructors for a few hours or a few days and then complain because other people are progressing in 'their' art. If they had trained during their time off, that sometimes accounts for years, then maybe they would not be heavier than they like and have some skills within an art.

This is not an attack on those that leave a group and train their basement alone or with friends, or with those that open their own independent schools. Unless of course they also complain about people who might have more rank then them.

Just curious, if I am the only one that wants to walk up to them and say ' SHUT-UP! and train or LEAVE!'.

Mick


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## redfive (Aug 22, 2002)

I know just what you mean. I know two students that have been green belts for over 10 years now. they were green when I started and green way after my Black and later my 1st black. they show up for a couple of days every 8 months or so, or it may be a year or two. on the other side, I know a couple of people that have yellow belts in over seven systems, they love yellow?

              your friend in the Arts, Redfive


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## Danny (Aug 23, 2002)

Never seen that.  But I know a lot of people that take like 8 years to get their Black Belts.  Or the one I really can't understand, they get all the way to Black Strip and then sit there forever.  To me that seems like stopping on the 1 yard line!


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## Nightingale (Aug 23, 2002)

hmmm.... speaking from the point of view of someone who's been training consistantly for 13 years AND IS STILL A BROWN BELT....

You can't always blame the student.  I've been in a situation where circumstances (me moving several times and through 3 different counties, schools closing and stuff) have forced me to switch studios several times.  Every time I switch, I have to re-learn everything, because the new instructor does things differently.  Its been a continuous game of catch-up, and as soon as I get caught up, circumstances force me to move again.  Out of the last 13 years, there's only been one year where I wasn't going to an actual studio to train, and that was 2 years ago, and I ended up teaching my own kenpo classes to students on campus*, so even though I wasn't "officially" training with an instructor, I was still training. 

What bugs me is the guys who come into the school, train for a while, leave as a purple or blue belt, and come back six months later with a black belt with lots of red stripes in McDojo-do, and an overinflated ego, the size of which is directly proportional to the number of stripes on the belt.





*I wasn't intending to start training people in kenpo. a friend asked me to show him some basic self defense stuff, then his roommate wanted to learn, then his roomie's girlfriend wanted to learn, then her sorority friends wanted to learn, and they all brought their boyfriends, who brought their frat friends, so I had a class of 25 students, when I was only intending to train one! LOL.  I figured I had a good thing going, so I started charging a few bucks a class.  they all knew I wasn't a black belt and were okay with that.


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## Mickey (Aug 23, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Danny _
> 
> *Never seen that.  But I know a lot of people that take like 8 years to get their Black Belts.  Or the one I really can't understand, they get all the way to Black Strip and then sit there forever.  To me that seems like stopping on the 1 yard line! *



The number of years to get to black belt was not the issue I was trying to discuss here. Although a very good issue to discuss. I personally have no problems if it takes you 8 years to get your black belt when the average might be more towards 4 or 5 years in your art. This only means you as a student may not have had the time or understanding to progress at the average rate.

And as for those that wait, I had a friend, who waited almost three years as a red belt black stripe before he tested. His personal reasons were he wanted to wait until he was 18. He could have tested for the junior belt at 16. He was very knowledgable and many people saught his help, he jsut did not have the rank of first Dan.


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## Mickey (Aug 23, 2002)

> _Originally posted by nightingale8472 _
> 
> *hmmm.... speaking from the point of view of someone who's been training consistantly for 13 years AND IS STILL A BROWN BELT....
> 
> ...



I was not trying to say that if it took you along time to get rank this was bad. I was also not saying that if you taught you were not training. As for strting over when you moved, this is understood even though it may be frustrating.

Yet, when you started over, did you go back to any of your other classes later and see people promoted to ranks higher than you were and complain?

From your reply here my thought would be that you did not.

My issue is with those that leave for some reason and then complain when others get promoted. It is like the world cannot go on without them.  Makes me sick


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## Rich Parsons (Aug 23, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Mickey _
> 
> *How many times have you listened to someone who left their art / club / etc, say I knew him when he was , pick color belt here, and I cannot believe that he has been promoted to: pick any rank here?
> 
> ...



Mick,

This is going to happen, when people are more concerned about what they used to do or how good they were in the day.  I refer to this as the  High School or college sport jock, who had nothing else to round himself out but the one sport he was good at. He always talks about the good old days.
"Remember that game the playoffs I scored four touch-downs" - Attempt at quoting Al Bundy from Married with Children.

Now this does not mean that could not be someone who learned a lot and did not get any rank or the rank the deserved or thought they deserved, and they could still train by themselves or teach and still stay on top or even improve.  

Yet if they leave and they come back for the memories or desires, no matter the rank, they should not be upset at other peoples hard work.
Yes, there is the clause of the Black Belt mills, and if this the case then I have to ask why are you going back?

Hang in there

Rich
:asian:


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## Mickey (Aug 27, 2002)

All good posts

Mick


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## MartialArtist (Aug 29, 2002)

What's the big deal with belts?  People in the West get promoted too fast anyways.  Belts have no indication on skill.  When I go to a dojo or a dojang, I see yellow belts with more skill, speed, stamina, and way better technique than even some black belts.


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## KenpoTess (Sep 26, 2003)

What's your take on this 
*nudging thread*


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## theletch1 (Sep 26, 2003)

Ouch! Why are you nudging with an elbow to the floating ribs?  I've seen exactly the thing that's being talked about here.  We had a level one brown in my kenpo school that left (got into an argument with the instructor DURING class) for about a year, gained 40 pounds, didn't train at all and wanted to come back to training.  When he talked to the instructor about returning he was told he would have to be re-evaluated for his rank.  He refused to re-test and said he had expected to come back as his old rank and be able to test for the next level to keep pace with the guys that had stayed and trained for the last year.  Needless to say, he didn't come back to class.


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## Cruentus (Sep 26, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Danny _
> *Never seen that.  But I know a lot of people that take like 8 years to get their Black Belts.  Or the one I really can't understand, they get all the way to Black Strip and then sit there forever.  To me that seems like stopping on the 1 yard line! *



I did something like that. I started TKD when I was 7. I refused to get a black belt in the art until I was 18 yrs. old. I didn't want a junior black belt, and even though at 16 I qualified for a regular b.b., I wanted to be sure I was ready.

I did the same thing w/ Modern Arnis. I started when I was 13, and didn't get my BB til I was in my 20's. Professor Presas practically forced me into testing for it, so I had to do it. 

Why all the hassle? The people I trained under and the way I grew up w/ MA was that you did not get a black belt until you were an expert level martial artist. The criteria was very high. A black belt was considered an end of a journey rather then the beginning, almost. But the bottom line was you had to be good enough to back up your rank against anyone, from any other style.

Now I don't care what rank I am anymore. I am respected because I have a BB, but skill matters more. If I clearly have better technique then the 5th degree next to me, who do you think people are going to want to train with? It won't matter the degree, at that point.


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## Cruentus (Sep 26, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Nightingale _
> *hmmm.... speaking from the point of view of someone who's been training consistantly for 13 years AND IS STILL A BROWN BELT....
> 
> You can't always blame the student.  I've been in a situation where circumstances (me moving several times and through 3 different counties, schools closing and stuff) have forced me to switch studios several times.  Every time I switch, I have to re-learn everything, because the new instructor does things differently.  Its been a continuous game of catch-up, and as soon as I get caught up, circumstances force me to move again.  Out of the last 13 years, there's only been one year where I wasn't going to an actual studio to train, and that was 2 years ago, and I ended up teaching my own kenpo classes to students on campus*, so even though I wasn't "officially" training with an instructor, I was still training.
> ...



Although this may be fustrating deep down, I don't think you would be the kind of person to sit there and talk smack about other people who have less time then you because they stuck with that school, but higher rank. I think that you would just demonstrate your skill, and you'd be respected for it. And if your skill exceeds their black belts in the school, then you should be respected for it also.

Just like your students: they respect you for your skill, not what you have around your waist.

In the end...the skill is what matters most, in my opinion! :asian:


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## Cruentus (Sep 26, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Mickey _
> *The number of years to get to black belt was not the issue I was trying to discuss here. Although a very good issue to discuss. I personally have no problems if it takes you 8 years to get your black belt when the average might be more towards 4 or 5 years in your art. This only means you as a student may not have had the time or understanding to progress at the average rate.
> 
> And as for those that wait, I had a friend, who waited almost three years as a red belt black stripe before he tested. His personal reasons were he wanted to wait until he was 18. He could have tested for the junior belt at 16. He was very knowledgable and many people saught his help, he jsut did not have the rank of first Dan. *



Hey...that sounds like me! We must be freinds, eh Mickey?


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## Cruentus (Sep 26, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Mickey _
> *How many times have you listened to someone who left their art / club / etc, say I knew him when he was , pick color belt here, and I cannot believe that he has been promoted to: pick any rank here?
> 
> 
> ...



I know people who fit this description well. I see it in Modern Arnis all the time. And your not alone; I think that these people should dhut up and train or leave as well.

:asian:


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## KenpoTess (Sep 27, 2003)

> _Originally posted by theletch1 _
> *Ouch! Why are you nudging with an elbow to the floating ribs?*



*G*  yeah I have been accused of leaving bruises with my elbow *  sowwy..

Next time I'll just poke things along


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