# would you honor your agreement?



## stickarts (Jul 22, 2008)

There was an article recently in a local newspaper regarding a mom who signed her son up for a 4 year contract at a martial arts school. It is one of a large chain of schools. After awhile of going, the son lost interest so the mom wanted out of the contract. According to the article, She first tried contacting the school owner via e-mail but got no response. Long story short, she ended up contacting the newspaper and the owner ended up letting her out of the contract after discussion with the mom and the reporter.
*Here is my question*: if you entered into a contract somewhere, health club, martial arts school, etc... and clearly understood the terms before signing and the provider was living up to their end of the agreement, would you expect to be let out of the contract if you (or your child) stopped showing up because of loss of interest or would you honor your end of the agreement and keep paying even if you didn't attend any longer?


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## MBuzzy (Jul 22, 2008)

This is one of the many reasons that I don't support contracts in Martial Arts schools.  I must say that personally, I would not enter into a contract such as that without an escape clause.  I was in this situation before, only it wasn't because of loss of interest, work simply got too overwhelming and time prevented me from going.  

I simply paid the penalty and got out of the contract.  It was the equivalent of two months of dues and I was released from the contract.  Four years is an extraordinarily long time for a contract like this, especially for a small child.  

So to answer your question, I can't say that I would get myself into this situation.  If the studio owner did not allow an escape clause, I'd find another school.  I do believe that you need to pay the proper fee to get out of the contract, just like an apartment leave.  You can leave early, you just pay for it.  Same principle.  I don't think that I would go the route of the newspaper though.


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## crushing (Jul 22, 2008)

I would definately honor my end of the agreement.  But at the same time, I would never enter such an extended contract, unless I was the one getting paid.  I also refuse to enter evergreen contracts.


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## stickarts (Jul 22, 2008)

MBuzzy said:


> This is one of the many reasons that I don't support contracts in Martial Arts schools. I must say that personally, I would not enter into a contract such as that without an escape clause. I was in this situation before, only it wasn't because of loss of interest, work simply got too overwhelming and time prevented me from going.
> 
> I simply paid the penalty and got out of the contract. It was the equivalent of two months of dues and I was released from the contract. Four years is an extraordinarily long time for a contract like this, especially for a small child.
> 
> So to answer your question, I can't say that I would get myself into this situation. If the studio owner did not allow an escape clause, I'd find another school. I do believe that you need to pay the proper fee to get out of the contract, just like an apartment leave. You can leave early, you just pay for it. Same principle. I don't think that I would go the route of the newspaper though.


Thanks for the response! In most cases, by law, you can escape the contract if you move more than 25 miles away or become injured, or change your mind within 3 days of the signing of the contract. ( Lots of issues can come up in 4 years and I wouldn't sign on that long either.)


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## stickarts (Jul 22, 2008)

crushing said:


> I would definately honor my end of the agreement. But at the same time, I would never enter such an extended contract, unless I was the one getting paid. I also refuse to enter evergreen contracts.


 
Thanks for the response! What is an evergreen contract?


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## MBuzzy (Jul 22, 2008)

stickarts said:


> Thanks for the response! In most cases, by law, you can escape the contract if you move more than 25 miles away or become injured, or change your mind within 3 days of the signing of the contract. ( Lots of issues can come up in 4 years and I wouldn't sign on that long either.)


 
Luckily there is also a federal law saying that military orders can get you out of ANY contract.....so I'm pretty much safe!

Sometimes you can alter a contract to add in an escape clause, sometimes you can't.  In my experience, many companies who hired a lawyer once and had them write the contract won't change it, because then it wouldn't have been reviewed.  Those who have a lawyer on retainer will generally do it.

BUT, there is a generally held belief that if you cross something out and re write before you sign, it changes the contract.  NOT TRUE.  Your changes must be agreed upon and initialed by BOTH parties, not just you.


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## MBuzzy (Jul 22, 2008)

stickarts said:


> Thanks for the response! What is an evergreen contract?


 
Basically a contract that renews it self automatically after each agreed period.  To cancel it, BOTH parties must agree.


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## jkembry (Jul 22, 2008)

Knowing myself...if it was for me or my kid (if I had one), I would speak with the school to see if there was an early termination clause.  Most contracts I have see have one (Gyms, Wireless plans...etc.).  Then I would check to see if they will accept a percentage as a termination fee.  After that I would probably write it off as a lesson learned (read the contract closer) and pay it off as quickly as possible.


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## stickarts (Jul 22, 2008)

Good points! I think most everyone would let you out in that case (military) anyway, or I should hope they would! Thanks for the reply.



MBuzzy said:


> Luckily there is also a federal law saying that military orders can get you out of ANY contract.....so I'm pretty much safe!
> 
> Sometimes you can alter a contract to add in an escape clause, sometimes you can't. In my experience, many companies who hired a lawyer once and had them write the contract won't change it, because then it wouldn't have been reviewed. Those who have a lawyer on retainer will generally do it.
> 
> BUT, there is a generally held belief that if you cross something out and re write before you sign, it changes the contract. NOT TRUE. Your changes must be agreed upon and initialed by BOTH parties, not just you.


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## MBuzzy (Jul 22, 2008)

Not to contradict myself, because I still hold that I wouldn't get myself into that situation.......BUT, if I did.......

I really hate to say this, because knowing that I'll someday start teaching and hate people like me....but if I did get myself into this situation.  I have to be honest, I don't think that I'd pay out the contract.  I'd feel bad, but that is a lot of money to pay for something your kids loses interest in.  I would probably pay for a few months, until I thought that I'd paid what was fair.

But in my mind, the school owner only loses a student, a small fraction.  I am by no means putting him out of business.  The worst that he can do is send my account to a payment collection agency - but I would be surprised to know if he even went to the trouble for stuff like that.


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## stickarts (Jul 22, 2008)

MBuzzy said:


> Basically a contract that renews it self automatically after each agreed period. To cancel it, BOTH parties must agree.


 
Thanks. No, I don't like that arrangement either.


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## harlan (Jul 22, 2008)

I'd ask to be let out. If they were dicks about it...then they would have a new student. Me. And I'd make a point of getting my money's worth.


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## stickarts (Jul 22, 2008)

MBuzzy said:


> Not to contradict myself, because I still hold that I wouldn't get myself into that situation.......BUT, if I did.......
> 
> I really hate to say this, because knowing that I'll someday start teaching and hate people like me....but if I did get myself into this situation. I have to be honest, I don't think that I'd pay out the contract. I'd feel bad, but that is a lot of money to pay for something your kids loses interest in. I would probably pay for a few months, until I thought that I'd paid what was fair.
> 
> But in my mind, the school owner only loses a student, a small fraction. I am by no means putting him out of business. The worst that he can do is send my account to a payment collection agency - but I would be surprised to know if he even went to the trouble for stuff like that.


 
It depends on if the school is hooked up with a billing company or not and which one. Some of the billing companies get pretty nasty about it.
I keep our agreements between me and the client and don't usually involve a third party with disputes. I also don't offer extremely long term contracts so disputes don't often happen.


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## terryl965 (Jul 22, 2008)

Well here is my take on this contracts for MA school I personnally do not believe in for these reasons:

1) People are not committed to naything for the most parts

2) The economy sucks and to many people get laid off

3) If I am doing my job right they will stay

4) I believe and let me rephase this *I Believe* contract are needed for those that do not have enough confidence in there ability to keep students. Believe me I know some great instructors that uses them and I dis-agree with them all the time.

5) this is my last one just because it is wrong.


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## stickarts (Jul 22, 2008)

harlan said:


> I'd ask to be let out. If they were dicks about it...then they would have a new student. Me. And I'd make a point of getting my money's worth.


 
LOL! Thanks for the reply!


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## terryl965 (Jul 22, 2008)

Oh sorry by the way if I personally sign a contract I would honor it, my word and integrity is worth more than the money I promise to that individual. I am also surprise others have not brought up that point, we teach it everyday to our students.


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## stickarts (Jul 22, 2008)

terryl965 said:


> Well here is my take on this contracts for MA school I personnally do not believe in for these reasons:
> 
> 1) People are not committed to naything for the most parts
> 
> ...


 
Thanks! If you did sign an agreement somewhere: a health club, college, etc.... would you still honor your agreement if you stopped attending?
( I respectfully agree to disagree on your 4th point!  We have always retained our students extremely well even before agreements but starting agreements made our school better in a number of ways)
oh, I just saw you answered me in another post! Thank you!


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## stickarts (Jul 22, 2008)

terryl965 said:


> Oh sorry by the way if I personally sign a contract I would honor it, my word and integrity is worth more than the money I promise to that individual. I am also surprise others have not brought up that point, we teach it everyday to our students.


 
Kudos on the point about integrity. I feel the same way.


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## terryl965 (Jul 22, 2008)

stickarts said:


> Thanks! If you did sign an agreement somewhere: a health club, college, etc.... would you still honor your agreement if you stopped attending?
> ( I respectfully agree to disagree on your 4th point!  We have always retained our students extremely well even before agreements but starting agreements made our school better in a number of ways)
> oh, I just saw you answered me in another post! Thank you!


 
Sir I believe if they are helping than that is great and I wish more people would do the right thing with contracts. But in my area contracts are used to lock people in and then give them a fast track to BB so thay can get them on another program like become an instructor program or learn how to open and run a school. This area is full of those types. I know for a fact you are about training and not flocking the sheep kind of guy.


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## stickarts (Jul 22, 2008)

terryl965 said:


> Sir I believe if they are helping than that is great and I wish more people would do the right thing with contracts. But in my area contracts are used to lock people in and then give them a fast track to BB so thay can get them on another program like become an instructor program or learn how to open and run a school. This area is full of those types. I know for a fact you are about training and not flocking the sheep kind of guy.


 
Thank you! our students can enroll month to month with no committment, or they can sign on to a 6 month or 12 month agreement and get a discount for making a committment so its pretty flexible. No fast track to BB ever.
The agreements just keep everything clear in writing, allow us to spend more time teaching and less time doing book work and making phone calls, and help make for a professional environment since everything is in writing and they take a copy of it home with them. Also, it helps having a financial committment from students since I have a large financial committment to my landlord and a lease to pay!
I think it comes down to the integrity of the school owner and HOW the agreements are used!
I do understand the feeling against contracts since we do hear how they have also been misused.
The recent article just caught my eye because I myself would honor an agreement I made unless I felt I was mislead or if the provider was not living up to their end of the agreement. As others stated though, I would not have signed on for that long of a period in the first place.


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## Ninjamom (Jul 22, 2008)

I am not a MA school owner, but I have run a business.  I don't have a problem with contracts in general because
1) They allow the school owner to plan, budget, invest in equipment, and schedule instructors better (more in keeping with the need).
2) People generally commit to things they pay for.  My experience (in business and as a parent) is that most people don't value things you give them, and if you make them pay or sign a written commitment (even for a short term or a small amount) they will tend to value it more and take it more seriously.

OTOH, I would hope that if I ever have my own school, the contracts would allow:
1) Exemptions for injury or death,
2) a reasonable buy-out, and/or
3) Ability to transfer to another person


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## stickarts (Jul 22, 2008)

Ninjamom said:


> I am not a MA school owner, but I have run a business. I don't have a problem with contracts in general because
> 1) They allow the school owner to plan, budget, invest in equipment, and schedule instructors better (more in keeping with the need).
> 2) People generally commit to things they pay for. My experience (in business and as a parent) is that most people don't value things you give them, and if you make them pay or sign a written commitment (even for a short term or a small amount) they will tend to value it more and take it more seriously.
> 
> ...


 
Thanks for the reply! Some of the provisions you mention are required by law. Others are optional. We do offer to transfer the membership in many cases. Good points.


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## 14 Kempo (Jul 22, 2008)

Personally I would honor the contract that I signed, as long as I was getting what I paid for. I have asked for and received a release of a martial arts contract in the past, the reason, there was no value for my dollar and I was able to show them that I was correct in that statement, or at least gave them enough reason to refund my remaining investment.

We do not use contracts at my school. Reason, we are a new school with multiple instructors that all own a part of the business. In our case, we put the pressure on the instructors to run good classes and provide value. I'd rather see people return cause they are getting that value rather than that they signed on the dotted line. Students that feel they are not receiving value for the dollar, but that are in class because of a contract, can become a cancer within the group. People talk, people express feelings ... if they are unhappy, it will be known by others.


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## stickarts (Jul 22, 2008)

14 Kempo said:


> Personally I would honor the contract that I signed, as long as I was getting what I paid for. I have asked for and received a release of a martial arts contract in the past, the reason, there was no value for my dollar and I was able to show them that I was correct in that statement, or at least gave them enough reason to refund my remaining investment.
> 
> We do not use contracts at my school. Reason, we are a new school with multiple instructors that all own a part of the business. In our case, we put the pressure on the instructors to run good classes and provide value. I'd rather see people return cause they are getting that value rather than that they signed on the dotted line. Students that feel they are not receiving value for the dollar, but that are in class because of a contract, can become a cancer within the group. People talk, people express feelings ... if they are unhappy, it will be known by others.


 
Thanks for the reply and great points. I agree that students attending only because of a contract is not good for anyone.


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## MBuzzy (Jul 22, 2008)

terryl965 said:


> Oh sorry by the way if I personally sign a contract I would honor it, my word and integrity is worth more than the money I promise to that individual. I am also surprise others have not brought up that point, we teach it everyday to our students.


 
While I personally value integrity and personal word very much...I think that I've been involved in too many contract negotiations and business arrangements (outside the MA world that is).  Which leads to my basic belief that in the end, teaching MA is a business (i.e. students pay for a service, instructors provide that service).

I view this as a business arrangement, where integrity is important, but money is also important.  I feel that it is a lack of integrity on the instructor's part moreso to require people to pay who are obviously not attending.  That just seems like a slimy business tactic to me.  If someone approaches you and says "My child has completely lost interest, we no longer wish to attend, I would like to be released from the contract" and the response from the instructor is: "Too bad, you signed, now you have to pay for the next 4 years, whether you attend or not."  To me...that is slimy business and a lack of integrity and morals.  If they offer no relase clause, offer no options to get out, and most importantly _when you signed up_, offered no choice for a shorter contract....I really would feel no obligation to continue and under those circumstances, I believe that I could win a case in civil court based on a flawed contract and misleading advertising and business practices.  Basically, I'd go for the common man defese - in a civil situation, would a common man expect the contractee to continue paying when they are receiving no service?

Again, I would personally look for an escape clause and be perfectly happy to pay whatever fee the instructor asked for to be released from the contract, but if no option were provided, that isn't a lack of integrity from me.  Just based solely on the definition of the word....I dont' feel that I'm doing anything wrong by not paying.  I would probably draft a letter, enclose a check for 2-3 months of classes and tell the instructor that I would no longer be paying and if he wished to collect for the next 4 years, he should contact my attorney.

As I said, I have enough contracting experience to know that NO contract is iron-clad....and I view this as a business arrangement, not a point of ethics or integrity.  I pay money, I receive services; if I pay money and receive no service, I stop paying.


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## stickarts (Jul 22, 2008)

MBuzzy said:


> While I personally value integrity and personal word very much...I think that I've been involved in too many contract negotiations and business arrangements (outside the MA world that is). Which leads to my basic belief that in the end, teaching MA is a business (i.e. students pay for a service, instructors provide that service).
> 
> I view this as a business arrangement, where integrity is important, but money is also important. I feel that it is a lack of integrity on the instructor's part moreso to require people to pay who are obviously not attending. That just seems like a slimy business tactic to me. If someone approaches you and says "My child has completely lost interest, we no longer wish to attend, I would like to be released from the contract" and the response from the instructor is: "Too bad, you signed, now you have to pay for the next 4 years, whether you attend or not." To me...that is slimy business and a lack of integrity and morals. If they offer no relase clause, offer no options to get out, and most importantly _when you signed up_, offered no choice for a shorter contract....I really would feel no obligation to continue and under those circumstances, I believe that I could win a case in civil court based on a flawed contract and misleading advertising and business practices. Basically, I'd go for the common man defese - in a civil situation, would a common man expect the contractee to continue paying when they are receiving no service?
> 
> ...


 
Thanks for the reply! There are escape clauses required in the contracts, specific language that is required in the contracts, as well as buyers rights that must be posted and visible in the school. If this is not followed by the school owner then they would have no legal grounds to receive payment and would also be in violation of state laws which may mean penalties. I know of schools that have been shut down for not adhering to the statutes. In addition to following all of the laws, I agree that school owners should offer options when a student has payment and / or attendance issues.


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## MBuzzy (Jul 22, 2008)

stickarts said:


> Thanks for the reply! There are escape clauses required in the contracts, specific language that is required in the contracts, as well as buyers rights that must be posted and visible in the school. If this is not followed by the school owner then they would have no legal grounds to receive payment and would also be in violation of state laws which may mean penalties. I know of schools that have been shut down for not adhering to the statutes. In addition to following all of the laws, I agree that school owners should offer options when a student has payment and / or attendance issues.


 
Agreed - my biggest issue is when the school offers no option for shorter contracts.  If you walk in the door and tell you that you MUST sign for 4 years, I see that as a big foul.  

Also, I've seen a few contracts that wouldn't even hold up in court (a lot of what my opinions are based on) because they don't include some of that required verbage.  There are plenty that just write it up themselves, or hire a lawyer to write it and nothing else....if it is just a paper made up in word, it holds no water.  Plus, technically, unless it is signed by both parties in presence of each other with a witness signing, you can get out of it.  Even then, without a notary, it isn't difficult to get out of.  I see many MA contracts as simply being an agreement, very loosely binding.  More of an arrangement and an agreement for paying; as was stated above, more for budgeting and planning than anything else.


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## Senjojutsu (Jul 22, 2008)

Most Hollywood marriages dont last four years and you want me to sign a multi-year agreement? 
Are you a dojo or my mortgage company!?

Sorry for the venting  no not really.
Many states, because of documented abuses in the fitness industry, now have business laws protecting consumers against these multi-year package deals, especially the discounted pre-paid tuition plans. 

Foremost, with a fitness gym you are buying (okay renting) the use of the facilities first, at a physical location and specified hours of operation, and maybe some instructional training/classes.

But in the martial arts you are PRIMARILY PAYING FOR INSTRUCTION within a specific methodology, which we call a style, often with an identified individual teacher you have chosen.

The physical facilities have always been secondary in martial arts - *its the teacher and the style. *As to my evidence - when the sensei/sifu/instructor ever leaves/dies/retires that school often closes its doors. It happens all the time.

What happens with pre-paid tuitions / auto EFTs if the gym or martial arts school closes?

What happens when you join & sign up for a style that over the years gets modified/enhanced by the schools instructor, can I leave then with recourse? 

Also what if significant personality/conceptual conflicts arise between teacher and student during the months of instruction  the relationship will/should end. Within a fitness gym who cares - as long as the machines are still there to do work-outs and the lights are on.

So over an extended time what if the dojo changes its days/hours of instruction? Monday & Wednesday evening classes were great for me, but now they are on Tuesdays & Thursdays and I cannot make it. But I still pay?

In our modern, mobile, uncertain American lifestyle - who really knows what we will be doing in one year from now? 

I am talking about adults, never mind the uncertainty of having children as students.


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## newGuy12 (Jul 22, 2008)

I don't sign contracts.  If a contract is necessary for a Dojang, I will pay it up front.  If I do not have the money, then I will not join.

Same with the weight lifting gym.  If I have the money to pay up front, I will, but no contracts.


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## arnisador (Jul 22, 2008)

I like *MBuzzy*'s answer. A 4-year contract involving a minor is unreasonable, even if the parents are the ones actually signing the document. It isn't a lack of integrity to test whether or not it's legally enforceable by sending a letter and a compromise payment as he indicates. The law provides a lot of protections for consumers, and the contract is subject to these.

It would also matter to me whether they were offered a month-to-month contract and elected this as for a steep discount or as a way to coerce Johnny to keep attending ("Mommy and Daddy paid a lot of money for this so you must go!"). I'm imagining that they had few other payment options if they wanted to attend there and were upsold into a long-term contract when they didn't know what we know about the martial arts business.


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## MBuzzy (Jul 22, 2008)

arnisador said:


> It would also matter to me whether they were offered a month-to-month contract and elected this as for a steep discount or as a way to coerce Johnny to keep attending ("Mommy and Daddy paid a lot of money for this so you must go!"). I'm imagining that they had few other payment options if they wanted to attend there and were upsold into a long-term contract when they didn't know what we know about the martial arts business.


 
And that upselling was probably done based on the parent's inexperience in MA, Contracts, and the Upselling as a marketing tactic....meaning the instructor misled the parents to pad his own pocket.


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## terryl965 (Jul 22, 2008)

Mbuzzy here is my point and believe me when I say my point: If I ever sign a four year contract with someone then I must have done my homework and figure I would be there that long. I have runned alot of personnal businesses to know how any budy with a five dollar atorney can wiggle out of them. To me Martial Art is more than training it is a way of life, to me and my family. So for meit is about integrity and forfilling my committment to the school, the students and the instructors. If something happen like being in a bad wreck or my instructor dieing then I would expect to be able to get out of it. This is why sometime my school has people and sometimes it does not have enough. But since I really do not do this to make a living things are different to me, sure we have a lease and utilities to pay, but when we made the move to here we knew we could afford it whether we had 25 or 100 students. We was and are willing to make the commitment to our school. I wish alot of schools would look at things beside the busines side of it but in reality most schools are there to help support the owners. I have no problem with people making a buck as long the students feel they are getting there money worth. I myself would never train with certain people but they have three hundred students ans they are happy being there not training and learning sub par S.D. principles. Well I guess I rambled enough and need to get back to topics. Contract are what each individual makes of them if you are not for them find a school that does not have them and if you like them find one that has them.


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## Kacey (Jul 22, 2008)

If I were stupid enough to sign a contract that long term, then I would continue to pay it until I could legally get out of it; first, as Terry said, because I am ethically obligated by my sense of integrity to do so, and secondly, non-payment has too many costs that go beyond the monthly dues.

I once, when much younger, signed a contract with a gym, not realizing that renewal was automatic - and it took me over a year after the first "automatic" renewal to get them to drop it; it was a place that had a "joining" fee followed by a minimal annual membership - you paid around $2000 up front, and then your dues were guaranteed to remain $85 or so a year for life... plus cost-of-living/doing business increases.  I paid it while I was fighting it - and then I spent over 10 years getting the "business" in question to quit sending me "are you sure you don't want to renew for this special price" notices, which finally worked when I had moved not 1, but 2 times.  

Short-term contracts involving adults (up to 12 months) with an escape clause don't bother me (although I don't use them - I teach at a Y, and all of my students are month-to-month, as are all of the Y's classes) - but anything longer, or anything longer than 3-6 months for kids, depending on the age of the kid, says "watch out" to me.


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## jks9199 (Jul 22, 2008)

Mom signed the contract.  Mom should've read the contract.  If mom wanted out, mom should've contacted the school.  Not try to send an email -- but phones, letters, etc. to show that she tried.  'Cause mom is probably still bound by the contract.  

I bet with the press involved, the school lets mom out of the contract to avoid bad publicity.  They shouldn't; they should stress that she had every opportunity to read the contract, and refuse to sign such a long contract.  Who in hell expects a young kid to maintain interest for 4 years?!


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## stickarts (Jul 22, 2008)

Senjojutsu said:


> Most Hollywood marriages don&#8217;t last four years&#8230; and you want me to sign a multi-year agreement?
> Are you a dojo or my mortgage company!?
> 
> Sorry for the venting &#8211; no not really.
> ...


 
Great points! Regarding your question what happens if the school closes: in Connecticut the school owners using contracts, and health club owners, pay an annual fee that goes into a fund which reimburses clients for money lost on memberships due to the school closing. As to the rest of your (very good!) points: those are risks that the students must weigh before signing a contract. If the school has been around a long time and has a great reputation then it may seem less risky then a new school or a school with a not so good reputation. Either way, 4 years would be too long of a committment for me to agree to or to offer at my school.
Thanks for the great reply!


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## stickarts (Jul 22, 2008)

Kacey said:


> If I were stupid enough to sign a contract that long term, then I would continue to pay it until I could legally get out of it; first, as Terry said, because I am ethically obligated by my sense of integrity to do so, and secondly, non-payment has too many costs that go beyond the monthly dues.
> 
> I once, when much younger, signed a contract with a gym, not realizing that renewal was automatic - and it took me over a year after the first "automatic" renewal to get them to drop it; it was a place that had a "joining" fee followed by a minimal annual membership - you paid around $2000 up front, and then your dues were guaranteed to remain $85 or so a year for life... plus cost-of-living/doing business increases. I paid it while I was fighting it - and then I spent over 10 years getting the "business" in question to quit sending me "are you sure you don't want to renew for this special price" notices, which finally worked when I had moved not 1, but 2 times.
> 
> Short-term contracts involving adults (up to 12 months) with an escape clause don't bother me (although I don't use them - I teach at a Y, and all of my students are month-to-month, as are all of the Y's classes) - but anything longer, or anything longer than 3-6 months for kids, depending on the age of the kid, says "watch out" to me.


 
Thanks for the reply. Thats crazy that you had to go through all of that!


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## stickarts (Jul 22, 2008)

jks9199 said:


> Mom signed the contract. Mom should've read the contract. If mom wanted out, mom should've contacted the school. Not try to send an email -- but phones, letters, etc. to show that she tried. 'Cause mom is probably still bound by the contract.
> 
> I bet with the press involved, the school lets mom out of the contract to avoid bad publicity. They shouldn't; they should stress that she had every opportunity to read the contract, and refuse to sign such a long contract. Who in hell expects a young kid to maintain interest for 4 years?!


 
The article was in a prominent newspaper and I am sure that did give the mom lots of leverage. Tough spot for an owner to be in and I think he mostly handled it well all things considered. The end result will be going forward customers can get out of the contract if they aren't toally satisfied but to me, then why have a contract if you can leave at anytime anyway! There has to be some stipulations and some accountability or else just make it month to month pay as you go. I agree that 4 years is too long and it sets you up for some customer service issues down the road.


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## MBuzzy (Jul 22, 2008)

Now, that is actually something that I would support.  Not so much a "payment contract," as a "training contract."  Basically a written agreement, signed by the student stating that they understand the rules, will do their best, follow the training, respect the leaders....stuff like that.  Completely non-binding and with no "payoff period."  Just a statement of intent to do your best and train well.


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