# Ankle bone query



## Langoxer (Oct 5, 2022)

Hi 20 years ago I fractured my ankle in 3 places and broke a bit off my growth plate. I was 13 at the time so I underwent surgery to pin the place back together. All went well and my leg continues to grow properly. I had the pin removed once the bone had healed. I have been training Thai for 3 years and recently moved to a new trainer, my new trainer uses harder Thai pads and when I kick them I’ve noticed that I don’t have the same flexibility in that ankle as the other, had not noticed this sparing or doing bag work before as I kick with my shin.

Long story short has anyone else had this prior injury ? Is it even possible to stretch this out to get the same flexibility so when I kick the pads and my foot it still touching that my ankle will bend enough to let my shin fully connect ?


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## drop bear (Oct 5, 2022)

Yeah that is common. 

Work around it.


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## tkdroamer (Oct 5, 2022)

Langoxer said:


> Hi 20 years ago I fractured my ankle in 3 places and broke a bit off my growth plate. I was 13 at the time so I underwent surgery to pin the place back together. All went well and my leg continues to grow properly. I had the pin removed once the bone had healed. I have been training Thai for 3 years and recently moved to a new trainer, my new trainer uses harder Thai pads and when I kick them I’ve noticed that I don’t have the same flexibility in that ankle as the other, had not noticed this sparing or doing bag work before as I kick with my shin.
> 
> Long story short has anyone else had this prior injury ? Is it even possible to stretch this out to get the same flexibility so when I kick the pads and my foot it still touching that my ankle will bend enough to let my shin fully connect ?


So, you are 33? Yep, joint injuries can have permanent degradation to some degree. But almost all of them can be augmented and worked through to where they are equal to pre-injury levels. Arthritis can be a real bxxxh and takes time to work over and 'smooth out' the affected area. But it can always be done IMHO. 
Everything changes as we get older, and injury can exacerbate this. That is not a pass Not to work through it. Just do it wisely and have a checkup with your doctor.


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## Langoxer (Oct 6, 2022)

Yes I’m 33

Thanks for both your replies.

It’s not stopping me training, I much prefer the harder Thai pads, it’s already helped me clean up poor technique I hadn’t realised I was performing on the softer pads. 
I’ve been working on stretching the area and already feel like ive gained extra mobility, till recently I just thought it was another part of me that was stiff and had poor flexibility.


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## tkdroamer (Oct 6, 2022)

Langoxer said:


> Yes I’m 33
> 
> Thanks for both your replies.
> 
> ...


I feel you are on the right track. Alway look for redness/swelling in the area. The foot is a complex body part, and the ankle carries a lot of weight. Plus, both body parts are at the end of a moment arm or lever. You can create forces they are just not made to withstand. Training, technique, and conditioning are all very, very important. Since you only have one L/R ankle, L/R foot, etc... listening to your body is even more important.  
Most people can handle much more than they realize once they condition their brain to process pain accordingly. Just be smart about it.


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## Jimmythebull (Oct 6, 2022)

tkdroamer said:


> work over and 'smooth out' the affected area.


can you be more specific on what you mean by smooth it over? are you talking about scarring or scar tissue? not sure how you can smooth out Arthritis?


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## Langoxer (Oct 6, 2022)

Jimmythebull said:


> can you be more specific on what you mean by smooth it over? are you talking about scarring or scar tissue? not sure how you can smooth out Arthritis?


Yes I was curious what he actually meant by that. 

My right hip ‘clunks’ when I do gates to warm up. To me it feels like the area is rough inside and needs smoothed out. 
I just put it down to poor flexibility, as a kid I was never able to touch my toes or sit cross legged but I’ve always been very active. When I started training I could barely get up to leg kick and felt like a year of yoga and training before I could turn my hip over. Slowly improving but I started training later.


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## Jimmythebull (Oct 6, 2022)

Langoxer said:


> Yes I was curious what he actually meant by that.
> 
> My right hip ‘clunks’ when I do gates to warm up. To me it feels like the area is rough inside and needs smoothed out.
> I just put it down to poor flexibility, as a kid I was never able to touch my toes or sit cross legged but I’ve always been very active. When I started training I could barely get up to leg kick and felt like a year of yoga and training before I could turn my hip over. Slowly improving but I started training later.


I mean after a knee OP i had scar tissue & later it was shaved with a lazer in an op but Arthritis??


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## Langoxer (Oct 6, 2022)

Jimmythebull said:


> I mean after a knee OP i had scar tissue & later it was shaved with a lazer in an op but Arthritis??


I’ve no idea, I always put it down to I’m using a range of motion that for 30 years I’ve never moved my hip in that way. 
Never thought of it as arthritis.

Same with my ankle. Neither stop me from doing anything or cause pain. Slight discomfort at times.

I had only posted on here as I was curious if anyone else had been through a similar thing and had any input.


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## Gyakuto (Oct 6, 2022)

I think it’s commonly believed that if you fracture a bone, it will heal and all will be as it was _before_ the break. This is _sometimes_ the case for ‘stable fractures’ but from experience, most people are never the same again with reduced mobility, pain and ‘deformation’.

Follow drop bear’s advice!


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## tkdroamer (Oct 6, 2022)

Jimmythebull said:


> can you be more specific on what you mean by smooth it over? are you talking about scarring or scar tissue? not sure how you can smooth out Arthritis?


Work around or through would have been a better choice of words. Staying active helps keep Arthritis growth and progression somewhat at bay and/or keep the contacting surfaces smoother. Regardless, it is a real PITA.
To my knowledge there is no scarring involved with Arthritis, but nothing would surprise me. Where it gets really bad is when there are no wear surfaces left and things are bone on bone.


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## Gyakuto (Oct 7, 2022)

tkdroamer said:


> Work around or through would have been a better choice of words. Staying active helps keep Arthritis growth and progression somewhat at bay and/or keep the contacting surfaces smoother. Regardless, it is a real PITA.
> To my knowledge there is no scarring involved with Arthritis, but nothing would surprise me. Where it gets really bad is when there are no wear surfaces left and things are bone on bone.


A few years ago I had a young PhD student doing some teaching in an undergraduate lab-based session for me. She was working on using stem cells to regenerate cartilage in joints. They’d has significant success in experiments and I asked when human trials would begin. she suggested ‘soon’ and predicted that by the time I needed a knee replacement, I’d be receiving an injection in my knee, go home and wait for my knees to be cured!!

What this space…


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## Jimmythebull (Oct 7, 2022)

tkdroamer said:


> Work around or through would have been a better choice of words. Staying active helps keep Arthritis growth and progression somewhat at bay and/or keep the contacting surfaces smoother. Regardless, it is a real PITA.
> To my knowledge there is no scarring involved with Arthritis, but nothing would surprise me. Where it gets really bad is when there are no wear surfaces left and things are bone on bone.


a guy i know who´s younger than me had to get two hips replaced. never overweight & was active, some people are just unlucky


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## tkdroamer (Oct 7, 2022)

Gyakuto said:


> A few years ago I had a young PhD student doing some teaching in an undergraduate lab-based session for me. She was working on using stem cells to regenerate cartilage in joints. They’d has significant success in experiments and I asked when human trials would begin. she suggested ‘soon’ and predicted that by the time I needed a knee replacement, I’d be receiving an injection in my knee, go home and wait for my knees to be cured!!
> 
> What this space…


Oh how I wish that was available and effective! My body may use up the whole supply.


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## Gyakuto (Oct 7, 2022)

I do have some special oil, procured from legless reptiles, that might help…only if you’re interested😐🙂😉


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## tkdroamer (Oct 7, 2022)

Gyakuto said:


> I do have some special oil, procured from legless reptiles, that might help…only if you’re interested😐🙂😉


Sadly, I have probably tried it already!


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## Gyakuto (Oct 7, 2022)

tkdroamer said:


> Sadly, I have probably tried it already!


Ha ha…but mine‘s activated by magnetic fields, crystals and passages from a holy book, read over it!


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## Gyakuto (Oct 7, 2022)

Langoxer said:


> Hi 20 years ago I fractured my ankle in 3 places and broke a bit off my growth plate. I was 13 at the time so I underwent surgery to pin the place back together. All went well and my leg continues to grow properly. I had the pin removed once the bone had healed. I have been training Thai for 3 years and recently moved to a new trainer, my new trainer uses harder Thai pads and when I kick them I’ve noticed that I don’t have the same flexibility in that ankle as the other, had not noticed this sparing or doing bag work before as I kick with my shin.
> 
> Long story short has anyone else had this prior injury ? Is it even possible to stretch this out to get the same flexibility so when I kick the pads and my foot it still touching that my ankle will bend enough to let my shin fully connect ?


I saw this a while ago…there is light at the end of the tunnel…hang on in there!








						From the Lab, the First Cartilage-Mimicking Gel That’s Strong Enough for Knees
					

The thin, slippery layer of cartilage between the bones in the knee is magical stuff: strong enough to withstand a person’s weight, but soft and supple enough to cushion the joint against impact, over decades of repeat use. That combination of soft-yet-strong has been hard to reproduce in the...




					today.duke.edu


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## tkdroamer (Oct 7, 2022)

Gyakuto said:


> I saw this a while ago…there is light at the end of the tunnel…hang on in there!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have had Synvisc injections before. Not a cartilage builder but supposed to be like WD-40 for the joint.


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## Gyakuto (Oct 7, 2022)

tkdroamer said:


> I have had Synvisc injections before. Not a cartilage builder but supposed to be like WD-40 for the joint.


How interesting…I’ve never heard of that…derived from chicken combs 🐔


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## Hanshi (Oct 7, 2022)

I'm 76 and broke my ankle some 28 years ago.  The orthopedist decided to just put a cast on and let me walk using crutches until it healed.  It sounds like your break was worse than mine and I was far removed from my youth.  That foot is still a bit problematic and the ankle slightly misshaped.  Flexibility in that joint isn't great and I have "foot drop" on that side.  Yes, one must work through it and it can improve quite a bit if care is taken.

One of my black belt students who has his own school had to have a hip replacement; can't recall if it was just one or both.  He was a fantastic student.  I've seen videos of him training and he's looking the same as always.  He was a young adult when he started training at my dojo.  I have two sons older than he is.


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## Langoxer (Oct 7, 2022)

Gyakuto said:


> I saw this a while ago…there is light at the end of the tunnel…hang on in there!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Interesting my dad could do with that more as he’s already had a half knee replacement due to no cartilage left in it. 

I don’t think that’s my problem, I had 3 fractures around the ankle, can’t remember where exactly. But it’s the growth plate that (I may be butchering this) allows our leg bones to grow before fusing when we have fully grown.
I had detached a piece of that and from what I’ve read that can actually affect the growth in that leg sometimes resulting in one leg ending up shorter than the other.


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## Gyakuto (Oct 7, 2022)

Langoxer said:


> Interesting my dad could do with that more as he’s already had a half knee replacement due to no cartilage left in it.
> 
> I don’t think that’s my problem, I had 3 fractures around the ankle, can’t remember where exactly. But it’s the growth plate that (I may be butchering this) allows our leg bones to grow before fusing when we have fully grown.
> I had detached a piece of that and from what I’ve read that can actually affect the growth in that leg sometimes resulting in one leg ending up shorter than the other.


They’re usually very careful in dealing with fractures in people who haven’t ceased growing! Poor you😢


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## Gyakuto (Oct 7, 2022)

Gyakuto said:


> They’re usually very careful in dealing with fractures in people who haven’t ceased growing! Poor you😢


I believe Bruce Lee had one leg shorter than the other (‘Zen in the Martial Arts’- Joe Hyams)


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## Langoxer (Oct 7, 2022)

Gyakuto said:


> They’re usually very careful in dealing with fractures in people who haven’t ceased growing! Poor you😢


It all went well. I had surgery and the pinned the broken bit back in. That stayed In for I think a year. Then was removed in another surgery. Leg grew in fine and as far as I know it the same length. I never got the feeling back around the scar from the surgery’s.


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## tkdroamer (Oct 7, 2022)

Gyakuto said:


> How interesting…I’ve never heard of that…derived from chicken combs 🐔





Gyakuto said:


> How interesting…I’ve never heard of that…derived from chicken combs 🐔


Seriously??? I hope I don't start laying eggs!!!


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## Oily Dragon (Oct 7, 2022)

Gyakuto said:


> I believe Bruce Lee had one leg shorter than the other (‘Zen in the Martial Arts’- Joe Hyams)


That's  good little book!

It was def Joe Hyams, because his story has been quoted in quite a few articles.  Not sure if there's another source though.
_
“You probably are not aware of it,” he said, “but my left leg is almost one inch shorter than the right. That fact dictated the best stance for me – my right foot leading. Then I found because the right leg was longer, I had an advantage with certain types of kicks, since the uneven stomp gave me greater impetus_".

Also from Hyam's notes, and I thought this was a good one considering the thread.

"“_Stop comparing yourself at forty-five with the man you were at twenty or thirty,” Bruce answered.  “the past is an illusion.  You must learn to live in the present and accept yourself for what you are now.  What you lack in flexibility and agility you must make up with knowledge and constant practice"_

Smart fella.


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## Gyakuto (Oct 8, 2022)

Oily Dragon said:


> That's  good little book!
> 
> It was def Joe Hyams, because his story has been quoted in quite a few articles.  Not sure if there's another source though.
> 
> ...


I do love that little book and a copy is permanently installed in my toilet! Having said that, it has been criticised for having _nothing_ to do with Zen! 😂

Conquering haste is an idea I live by.


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## Gyakuto (Oct 8, 2022)

tkdroamer said:


> Seriously??? I hope I don't start laying eggs!!!


Avoid the ‘brown eggs’ at all costs 😳🤢


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