# What would you do?   Need advice



## jackhammer6611 (Jan 25, 2017)

I would like your advice about my school.  I'm still new to kung fu. I'm not really sure if I'm just being a cry baby or not. 

I started at a kung fu  almost a year ago. This was my first time ever doing a martial art besides wresling. I looked at the schools in my area and found my current school. I researched  and looked for all the signs some would say make a bad kung fu school. I did not see any so I signed up for a one year contract. I started out how I would expect to start out. I learned the bare basics of my style punches, kicks, horse stance, bow stance, cat stance and etc. I loved it I did not mind doing a kick over and over again till I did it right or practice 1 section of my form repeatedly. Everyday was rewarding and I went home learning something new. I received my white belt in the first 3 months. 

From there the class started going down hill. I received my white belt in may 2016. As of January 2017 I have practiced my yellow belt kicks and punches with an instructor 6 times. All they have me do is forms. I get that forms are important but that's all we practice. Maybe sparring technics once in awhile. Even my forms are rushed and awful. I will mess up on a section or not really understand it and will get corrected. They don't have me work on it over and over like they use to. I move on to the next step and everything gets jumbled together. I'm on the orange belt form now and I don't fully get the yellow belt form. I never get to practice it during class. I do practice it at home. Now I am one section away from finishing the orange belt form and moving to green. That will be 2 forms I do not understand but completed. 

I started pushing back and asking the instructors to take a step back and make sure I am doing my form correctly and not to be rushed(nicely). Most of them do not like this.  They just want me to follow along. They roll their eyes and say "don't worry you'll get this". They want me to test for my yellow and orange belt during the next belt test but I know I am not ready. I've tried speaking to my master and he just says keep coming to class.  

What do you think about my school and would you do?

I'm thinking about looking for a new school. There are hundreds of schools in my area and I can go find a new one. I am thinking about Wing Chun but that's a different story.

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## wingchun100 (Jan 25, 2017)

Sounds like a school that hands out belts to feed people's egos. Someone like you, who wants to actually do the techniques RIGHT, would be better suited going to a different place.


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## drop bear (Jan 25, 2017)

train somewhere you enjoy training. If you think it is a crap school. Then it is a crap school.

It is not like it is the one opportunity you have to do martial arts. you can leave, try something else and then even come back if it is the better option.

It is your money and your time. Get the most you can out of it.


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## Gerry Seymour (Jan 25, 2017)

jackhammer6611 said:


> I would like your advice about my school.  I'm still new to kung fu. I'm not really sure if I'm just being a cry baby or not.
> 
> I started at a kung fu  almost a year ago. This was my first time ever doing a martial art besides wresling. I looked at the schools in my area and found my current school. I researched  and looked for all the signs some would say make a bad kung fu school. I did not see any so I signed up for a one year contract. I started out how I would expect to start out. I learned the bare basics of my style punches, kicks, horse stance, bow stance, cat stance and etc. I loved it I did not mind doing a kick over and over again till I did it right or practice 1 section of my form repeatedly. Everyday was rewarding and I went home learning something new. I received my white belt in the first 3 months.
> 
> ...


I don't see how that approach can be helpful to students. Someone with more Wing Chun experience can correct me if I'm off on this, but it almost sounds to me like they don't fully understand the forms, so aren't putting enough emphasis on proper training. And they don't understand application, so they don't go into it enough, either.


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## Tony Dismukes (Jan 25, 2017)

If I'm understanding you correctly, your instructors are taking you through the forms in terms of memorizing the choreography, but not helping you polish the details and nuance of your stance, movement, body mechanics, etc? If so, I would consider that a bad sign. There is considerable debate about the value of training focused primarily around forms, but if you are going to just do forms you should at least work on doing them right.


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## wingchun100 (Jan 25, 2017)

gpseymour said:


> I don't see how that approach can be helpful to students. Someone with more Wing Chun experience can correct me if I'm off on this, but it almost sounds to me like they don't fully understand the forms, so aren't putting enough emphasis on proper training. And they don't understand application, so they don't go into it enough, either.


 
I don't think the OP is attending a Wing Chun school now. I think what they meant is they are looking to make a switch to that. Then again, I took a blow to the back of the head this morning, so take what I said with maybe a pound of salt.


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## jackhammer6611 (Jan 25, 2017)

Thank you everyone for your response. Not really sure how I should let my  master know that I will no longer be one of his students. In away I am firing him.

 How have you approached your master when you left their school?

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## wingchun100 (Jan 25, 2017)

jackhammer6611 said:


> Thank you everyone for your response. Not really sure how I should let my  master know that I will no longer be one of his students. In away I am firing him.
> 
> How have you approached your master when you left their school?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk


 
If you are worried about confrontation, don't. Unless there is a contract you signed that you need to break free of, you don't have to say anything. They provide a service, and they know some people who once bought the service may stop wanting it. That would be like having to tell McDonald's you are going to eat at Burger King from now on.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Jan 25, 2017)

The best solution would probably be to be honest with him and explain why you are leaving. That said, when I switched schools, I informed the sensei that I was taking a break for a while because I had too much going on and just did not come back (I ended up liking my new school more). It saved me the awkwardness, and no feelings were hurt. A few years later, I realized that I still had more to learn from my original school, and went back anyway.

That said, you also have the option of just not saying anything. People do that all the time, and is probably the easiest.


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## EddieCyrax (Jan 25, 2017)

Just be honest and transparent....


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## JR 137 (Jan 25, 2017)

If you have a contract that you can't get out of, keep going.  You're paying for it after all, and doing something is better than nothing.  Look at the contract and see what the conditions are for terminating it.

If you can get out of your contract, keep going while you visit different schools.  This should tell you if the grass truly is greener on the other side of the fence.  

I know we should all be honest, but I wouldn't burn any bridges.  Have a conversation with the CI in private and tell him your concerns.  If it goes no where, leave.


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## wingchun100 (Jan 25, 2017)

JR 137 said:


> If you have a contract that you can't get out of, keep going.  You're paying for it after all, and doing something is better than nothing.  Look at the contract and see what the conditions are for terminating it.
> 
> If you can get out of your contract, keep going while you visit different schools.  This should tell you if the grass truly is greener on the other side of the fence.
> 
> I know we should all be honest, but I wouldn't burn any bridges.  Have a conversation with the CI in private and tell him your concerns.  If it goes no where, leave.


 
To add to this: if you have a contract and you cannot terminate it, then you might as well go in and say what you want out of it.


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## JR 137 (Jan 25, 2017)

I just re-read your original post.

You've been there for almost a year now, so your contract is almost over.  Look at different schools during this time.  Again, you're paying for it and it's almost up, so why get into things you don't have to?

As a school teacher, I owe it to my students to explain why I teach what I teach and why my standards are what they are.  I don't brush off my students when they ask me these things.  It seems like the CI is giving you a "yeah, yeah, yeah" (in a "whatever" tone of voice).  If don't see much respect being shown to you, so why give it back with an explanation?  Respect works both ways.

After you find the right place, and the contract ends, you don't owe him any explanation as to why you're not re-signing.  A simple "I have to take some time off for personal reasons" should suffice.  It's not an outright lie.  You've asked him why things are done the way they are a few times without any reasonable effort in the answer, so return the favor.


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## Gerry Seymour (Jan 25, 2017)

jackhammer6611 said:


> Thank you everyone for your response. Not really sure how I should let my  master know that I will no longer be one of his students. In away I am firing him.
> 
> How have you approached your master when you left their school?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk


It's courteous to let them know you won't be taking classes any longer, but not necessary. If you have his email address (or that of the school), it would be appropriate to send a quick email to the effect, "I appreciate the time and effort you put into my training, and I value the experience. I've decided I need a different approach, and will no longer be attending classes. Best wishes."


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## JR 137 (Jan 25, 2017)

That could lead to phone calls, bordering on harassment.  Several people I know have had that happen.  Not in MA, but other stuff like Cross-Fit, gym membership, etc.


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## Gerry Seymour (Jan 25, 2017)

JR 137 said:


> That could lead to phone calls, bordering on harassment.  Several people I know have had that happen.  Not in MA, but other stuff like Cross-Fit, gym membership, etc.


Which post are you replying to?


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## Gerry Seymour (Jan 25, 2017)

wingchun100 said:


> I don't think the OP is attending a Wing Chun school now. I think what they meant is they are looking to make a switch to that. Then again, I took a blow to the back of the head this morning, so take what I said with maybe a pound of salt.


You are correct. Looking back, he just referred to a "kung fu" school. If that's all they are calling it, that's also odd.


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## wingchun100 (Jan 25, 2017)

gpseymour said:


> You are correct. Looking back, he just referred to a "kung fu" school. If that's all they are calling it, that's also odd.


 
Reminds me of an episode of Mystery Science Theater, where they were watching a movie where a character stood outside a bar that was called...uh..."BAR."

So one of the guys from the audience says. "I love going to _Bar!_  I often order _sandwich_ and have _drink!"_


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## Gerry Seymour (Jan 25, 2017)

wingchun100 said:


> Reminds me of an episode of Mystery Science Theater, where they were watching a movie where a character stood outside a bar that was called...uh..."BAR."
> 
> So one of the guys from the audience says. "I love going to _Bar!_  I often order _sandwich_ and have _drink!"_


That sounds like a Tom Servo line.


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## jackhammer6611 (Jan 25, 2017)

gpseymour said:


> You are correct. Looking back, he just referred to a "kung fu" school. If that's all they are calling it, that's also odd.


I did not want to mention the school name or style. Just in case someone from my school is on here.

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## Gerry Seymour (Jan 25, 2017)

jackhammer6611 said:


> I did not want to mention the school name or style. Just in case someone from my school is on here.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk


Ah. That does make sense.


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## JR 137 (Jan 25, 2017)

gpseymour said:


> It's courteous to let them know you won't be taking classes any longer, but not necessary. If you have his email address (or that of the school), it would be appropriate to send a quick email to the effect, "I appreciate the time and effort you put into my training, and I value the experience. I've decided I need a different approach, and will no longer be attending classes. Best wishes."





gpseymour said:


> Which post are you replying to?



I was referring to the top quoted post.

The best one was a friend of mine emailed a Cross-Fit instructor that he wasn't coming back.  He got several emails, which he ignored.  Then he started getting "why are you ignoring me?" emails followed by phone calls from him and then from people in the class.

That's the worst example I've seen, but I've seen some other ones where a simple verbal "my family/work/school  obligations have changed and I can't return until further notice" would've potentially ended anything before it started.

Just my opinion.  I could very well be wrong.


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## TieXiongJi (Jan 25, 2017)

jackhammer6611 said:


> I would like your advice about my school.  I'm still new to kung fu. I'm not really sure if I'm just being a cry baby or not.
> 
> I started at a kung fu  almost a year ago. This was my first time ever doing a martial art besides wresling. I looked at the schools in my area and found my current school. I researched  and looked for all the signs some would say make a bad kung fu school. I did not see any so I signed up for a one year contract. I started out how I would expect to start out. I learned the bare basics of my style punches, kicks, horse stance, bow stance, cat stance and etc. I loved it I did not mind doing a kick over and over again till I did it right or practice 1 section of my form repeatedly. Everyday was rewarding and I went home learning something new. I received my white belt in the first 3 months.
> 
> ...


Hey brother. I had a very similar experience at my first school; White Dragon Kung Fu in San Diego, CA.
They teach you just enough to keep you motivated, but not enough to understand any of it. The coaches were good enough to teach basics, but not much else.
Attend a local tournament to encounter and engage other schools. Watch quality performances online long enough and you will see the flaws in your coaches' forms.
Use the free intro classes! Attend any school for 1 whole month (3-6 practices each week) until you find the one you love.


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## marques (Jan 25, 2017)

jackhammer6611 said:


> How have you approached your master when you left their school?


If you like him, if there some sort of relationship, or if you there is a possibility you may come back I think it is better to tell him you're moving away.

If I was the instructor of a student I know and like, I would like to know that he his moving away (excuse is optional). This way he would be welcome in the future. And I will not be waiting for him or be wondering if he his still alive or...

At the same time, here in the UK as we often pay-as-you-go, I never know when is my last training. I never know when is my next training... since I have many options every day (but a long drive in between). I may fail my own advice.


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## Gerry Seymour (Jan 25, 2017)

JR 137 said:


> I was referring to the top quoted post.
> 
> The best one was a friend of mine emailed a Cross-Fit instructor that he wasn't coming back.  He got several emails, which he ignored.  Then he started getting "why are you ignoring me?" emails followed by phone calls from him and then from people in the class.
> 
> ...


I've heard of that happening when people don't notify, as well. I don't think the notification created that situation.


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## wingchun100 (Jan 25, 2017)

gpseymour said:


> That sounds like a Tom Servo line.



Actually, it was Mike. I remember it being from an episode after they made the move from Comedy Central to Sci Fi Channel.


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## wingchun100 (Jan 25, 2017)

And yes, I know that is now spelled Syfy.


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## Flying Crane (Jan 25, 2017)

TieXiongJi said:


> Hey brother. I had a very similar experience at my first school; White Dragon Kung Fu in San Diego, CA.
> They teach you just enough to keep you motivated, but not enough to understand any of it. The coaches were good enough to teach basics, but not much else.
> Attend a local tournament to encounter and engage other schools. Watch quality performances online long enough and you will see the flaws in your coaches' forms.
> Use the free intro classes! Attend any school for 1 whole month (3-6 practices each week) until you find the one you love.


Quality online performances are about as common as a unicorn.  That's not a good way to make judgement of his instructors form.


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## ballen0351 (Jan 25, 2017)

Its your money and your time.  If you felt compelled to  post here and ask then I think you already know you don't want to be there.  There is nothing wrong with changing schools.  If you have hundreds of others available then that's great go try as many as you can.  Take as many free classes at as many schools as you can.  Watch some of the other students that have been there a while see how they look.  Ask other students questions after class see how they like it. You will eventually find one that "fits"
Having many different schools to try is a luxury many people don't have so take advantage.  Also I personally stay clear of any schools making me sign a year long contact.  I prefer that the school teach a quality product to make me want to come every week not make me sign a contract to force me to pay.  Not all schools that require contacts are bad but on the same token many bad schools require contracts for a reason....


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## TieXiongJi (Jan 26, 2017)

Flying Crane said:


> Quality online performances are about as common as a unicorn.  That's not a good way to make judgement of his instructors form.


How many quality performances would I have to source to change your opinion?
I have long playlists of near perfect performances of techniques, traditional/modern/custom forms, sport fighting and street fighting. Also some great lectures about history, philosophy and concepts behind tradition and styles.
The Internet is the greatest invention since the Transistor and Air Conditioning.


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## Gerry Seymour (Jan 26, 2017)

TieXiongJi said:


> How many quality performances would I have to source to change your opinion?
> I have long playlists of near perfect performances of techniques, traditional/modern/custom forms, sport fighting and street fighting. Also some great lectures about history, philosophy and concepts behind tradition and styles.
> The Internet is the greatest invention since the Transistor and Air Conditioning.


The issue is that one needs enough experience in the art to be able to recognize the quality. So, watching online performances is unlikely to provide a basis for assessing his instructors.


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## Flying Crane (Jan 26, 2017)

TieXiongJi said:


> How many quality performances would I have to source to change your opinion?
> I have long playlists of near perfect performances of techniques, traditional/modern/custom forms, sport fighting and street fighting. Also some great lectures about history, philosophy and concepts behind tradition and styles.
> The Internet is the greatest invention since the Transistor and Air Conditioning.


Show me some and I'll tell you what I think of the quality.  Most of what people think is good, is actually junk.  Because most people don't really know what they are looking at.

Do you believe that a beginner can go on the internet and find some random video made by whomever, and use that to make a legitimate judgement on his instructor's quality?  No way.

But everyone thinks they can.


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## Gerry Seymour (Jan 26, 2017)

Flying Crane said:


> But everyone thinks they can.


There's that Dunning-Kruger effect, again.


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## Headhunter (Jan 26, 2017)

Sounds pretty bad to me. Forms are absolutely important but it shouldn't be all you do at all and if all you do is form and you're not being taught properly then that's a very bad sign. Your instructor wants you to test but you don't? Easy way to not test. Don't turn up on test day


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## TieXiongJi (Jan 26, 2017)

Flying Crane said:


> Show me some and I'll tell you what I think of the quality.  Most of what people think is good, is actually junk.  Because most people don't really know what they are looking at.
> 
> Do you believe that a beginner can go on the internet and find some random video made by whomever, and use that to make a legitimate judgement on his instructor's quality?  No way.
> 
> But everyone thinks they can.


I agree a beginner wouldn't be capable of seeing it. The comments section, the likes, the channel content are all good feedback tools for beginners. Also published texts with good reviews from notable players.

Ok. Here goes...





















Tai Chi 24-form
Chen - style (56-form)
Sun taiji 73 mouvements
Karate kyokushin kata pinan sono 1,2,3,4,5
Kyokushinkai karate Kata Kanku
Xingyi Five-element Quan Tutorial..

Just a few of 1000's more.


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## Gerry Seymour (Jan 26, 2017)

TieXiongJi said:


> I agree a beginner wouldn't be capable of seeing it. The comments section, the likes, the channel content are all good feedback tools for beginners. Also published texts with good reviews from notable players.
> 
> Ok. Here goes...
> 
> ...


Comments on YouTube tend to be poorly informed. They tend to respond more to what people think MA should be, or involve a lot of trolling, or simply demonstrate a lack of understanding of the art. There will be some informed comments, but again the beginner will be hard-pressed to tell the informed from the uninformed. Likes are even less useful - they can be bought at the cost of $5 for several thousand likes.


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## TieXiongJi (Jan 26, 2017)

gpseymour said:


> Comments on YouTube tend to be poorly informed. They tend to respond more to what people think MA should be, or involve a lot of trolling, or simply demonstrate a lack of understanding of the art. There will be some informed comments, but again the beginner will be hard-pressed to tell the informed from the uninformed. Likes are even less useful - they can be bought at the cost of $5 for several thousand likes.


Those are concerns that YT needs to solve. Everyone knows the Top Comments tend towards trolls while serious comments are further down.
My comments are pretty well informed


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## Gerry Seymour (Jan 26, 2017)

TieXiongJi said:


> Those are concerns that YT needs to solve. Everyone knows the Top Comments tend towards trolls while serious comments are further down.
> My comments are pretty well informed


Yours may be, but how does the beginner tell yours from the uninformed? That requires more information than they have.


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## Flying Crane (Jan 26, 2017)

TieXiongJi said:


> I agree a beginner wouldn't be capable of seeing it. The comments section, the likes, the channel content are all good feedback tools for beginners. Also published texts with good reviews from notable players.
> 
> Ok. Here goes...
> 
> ...


I'm not in a position to watch these now, will try to take a look later.


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## TieXiongJi (Jan 26, 2017)

gpseymour said:


> Yours may be, but how does the beginner tell yours from the uninformed? That requires more information than they have.


There is no perfect answer to inexperience. I agree there are flaws with any method other than consult an experienced teacher, but we all know even that has the authority fallacy.


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## KenpoMaster805 (Jan 28, 2017)

HI jackhammer6611 its better for you to choose what kind of Martial Arts that Fits you that you like. also I recomment you to choose a Martial arts school thats near you and go to their studio and watch how the instructor teach or how they train that will give ya the idea what kind of Martial Arts you like Theres a lot of Martial arts.school also ask them for their pricing because you dont wana pay a price that cost a lot and they dont teach good or they are mcdojo and I know someone will assist ya if you have questions and concerns. when i started Martial arts i did this Martial I forgot whats the name i became a blue belt then i did taekwondo i was yellow then i did shotokan i was high orange then i took American Kenpo Karate i was hooked 4 life I really Like American Kenpo Karate i learn a lot and my instruuctors were great ive been doing American Kenpo karate for 3 years 6 months and im a 3rd degree brown Belt soon to be 2nd degree brown belt 


so ya its up to you you know


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## KangTsai (Jan 28, 2017)

JR 137 said:


> That could lead to phone calls, bordering on harassment.  Several people I know have had that happen.  Not in MA, but other stuff like Cross-Fit, gym membership, etc.


Except no matter how proper you "learn" crossfit, you can say bye-bye to gains and the structural integrity of your spine.


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## crazydiamond (Feb 1, 2017)

I have occasionally skipped a scheduled test date when I thought I was not ready. Honestly they probably would have passed me as I watched other students do worse. However my journey is my own and the instructors simply said "test when YOU are ready". 

Also sparing - the amount and type of sparing  - vary form school to school and instructor to instructor.

If you want a good reason to give - I would say you have decided to explore some other styles of martial arts. This is very common. If you are not as much into complex forms or kata and want to do more sparing - there are schools for that.


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