# Grandmaster Andy Ah Po



## Master Ken

Hi All,

I am attending a seminar this Sunday in Manchester with GM Ah Po, has anyone else had a seminar taken by him.. what is he like??

Pil Seung

Master Ken


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## Dave Leverich

I've met him but not attended his seminars. Check with Fluffy here on the boards for more information.


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## Fluffy

He's a great guy!  What kind of seminar will you be attending?  Qigong, Tang Soo Do, both....?  

He teaches through action, though he talks - he does not like to.  You will sweat a bit, but he will not run you into the ground.  But again it matters on the type of seminar you will be attending.  

Congratulate him, he was just promoted to 9th Degree last June.


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## sabom_1

I can tell you from personal experience that you will not be disappointed in any training or information on Tang Soo Do that Kwan Jang Nim Ah Po provides.  You would be hard pressed to find anyone who is has more knowledge about TSD and is willing to share that knowledge.  Simple awesome!

For all of those interested in the states on training and learning from Kwan Jang Nim Ah Po, I will be hosting him at my dojang in Pittsburgh, PA in October!  Don't miss this awesome opportunity as Grandmaster Ah Po is one of the most sought after senior Tang Soo Do masters.

Grandmaster Ah Po will be teaching 2 Dan Clinics and 1 Gup Clinic.  The following is the itenerary:

Friday, October 19th: 6:00 - 9:00PM
Black Belt Clinic: "Understanding the Difference and Significance of Tang Soo Do Weh Ga Ryu, Neh ga Ryu and Chung Ga Ryu in the Techniques and Hyung of Tang Soo Do"

Saturday, October 20th 2:00 - 4:00PM
All Belts: Understanding Your Responsibilities as a Tang Soo Do Student to Maximize Your Learning and Ability in Tang Soo Do"  Grandmaster Ah Po will provide attendees with a forumula to utilize and practice which enhances their ability to learn Tang Soo Do.  Both students and and Instructors will find equal benefit from the information and training provided by Grandmaster Ah Po!

Saturday, October 20th, 5:00 - 7:00PM
Black Belt Clinic:  "Accessing and Channeling Your Ki (Chi Gong) During the Practice of Tang Soo Do"

Anyone interested can find more information at www.southhillskarate.com

Information about Kwan jang Nim Ah Po can be found here: http://www.tangsoodoworld.com/whos_who_profiles/andy_ahpo.htm

We all hope to see you in Pittsburgh!

Master Gene Garbowsky
South Hills Karate Academy
Tang Soo Do


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## Master Ken

Thanks Guy's

GM Ah Po is conducting the 3 hour seminar base on Ki energy, I was at at Sah Bum Nim seminar last week and Master Kumar (7th Dan) said I must go even if it was just to meet him. Can't wait wait till Sunday

Pil Seung

Master Ken


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## JT_the_Ninja

Wow, 60 years. Interesting how I've only heard of him passingly before, and he's going to be in the South Hills, right in my area. 

Is Pittsburgh one of the big TSD centers of the US, or is it just coincidence?


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## sabom_1

JT,

Yes Pittsburgh is a large Tang Soo Do Center.  I'm sure you can figure out why!

If you've been to my sight, you know my history.  I know your instructor very well, as well as the ITF.

An opportunity to train with GM Ah Po is one that shouldn't be missed.  There is much out there with regards to training in TSD that is not part of the ITF curriculum.  From reading this sight and others, I'm sure that you've figured this out.  Don't miss read what I say as I have the utmost respect for my former instructor.

You can PM me if you like and I can give you more details on the opportunity that I am presenting with GM Ah Po.  I'm sure we can make some arrangements for you to attend.  If you have read the flyer you can see that rates for attending are very reasonable.  I can guarantee that you will take away information that will only add to your TSD training and experience.

Master Garbowsky
sabom_1@comcast.net
www.southhillskarate.com


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## cdunn

JT_the_Ninja said:


> Wow, 60 years. Interesting how I've only heard of him passingly before, and he's going to be in the South Hills, right in my area.
> 
> Is Pittsburgh one of the big TSD centers of the US, or is it just coincidence?


 
The greater Pittsburgh area has a LOT of Tang Soo Do - It is disproportionate here. I drove from Greensburg to Kennywood a few weeks ago. I passed three dojangs with the TSD hangul displayed on the half hour drive, and a studio or two not displaying their art, or displaying generic 'karate' signs. They were probably TSD too.


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## Lynne

I'd love to be able to attend the all-belt clinic. I live near Endicott/Binghamton, NY.


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## sabom_1

Lynne,

I know Master Rexer from our previous time together in the ITF.  I will be attending his tournament along with some of my students on Oct. 6th.  So I will see you then, I hope!

I have also sent him information regarding "our clinics" with GM Ah Po in Pittsburgh.  I am sure that he will support your attendance at our Gup clinic in Pittsburgh.  Please ask him about it if you truly wish to attend.  

Hotel reservations need to be made by Sept. 28th to receive the discount rate.  Again even though Master Rexer has the information, you can find it at our website at www.southhillskarate.com

Also the drive from Endicott to Pittsburgh is a nice enjoyable ride.

Master Garbowsky
Email: sabom_1@comcast.net
www.southhillskarate.com


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## Lynne

sabom_1 said:


> Lynne,
> 
> I know Master Rexer from our previous time together in the ITF. I will be attending his tournament along with some of my students on Oct. 6th. So I will see you then, I hope!
> 
> I have also sent him information regarding "our clinics" with GM Ah Po in Pittsburgh. I am sure that he will support your attendance at our Gup clinic in Pittsburgh. Please ask him about it if you truly wish to attend.
> 
> Hotel reservations need to be made by Sept. 28th to receive the discount rate. Again even though Master Rexer has the information, you can find it at our website at www.southhillskarate.com
> 
> Also the drive from Endicott to Pittsburgh is a nice enjoyable ride.
> 
> Master Garbowsky
> Email: sabom_1@comcast.net
> www.southhillskarate.com


Oh, good!  I look forward to meeting you, Master Garbowsky.  I wish your students an enjoyable time at the tournament.


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## JT_the_Ninja

cdunn said:


> The greater Pittsburgh area has a LOT of Tang Soo Do - It is disproportionate here. I drove from Greensburg to Kennywood a few weeks ago. I passed three dojangs with the TSD hangul displayed on the half hour drive, and a studio or two not displaying their art, or displaying generic 'karate' signs. They were probably TSD too.



Well C.S. Kim schools have "Karate" in their name, even though they're TSD...mostly because more people understand "karate" than "Tang Soo Do." 

Maybe there are so many TSD schools in Pittsburgh because the ITF headquarters is there, and people who branched away just never moved far away.


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## sabom_1

JT,

You got it!

Master Gene Garbowsky


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## Chizikunbo

GM Ahpo was a charter member of the original United States Tang Soo Do Moo Duk Kwan Federation, he drafted the bylaws of that federation as well. He was a member of the USSBDTSDF form many years as a member of the TAC as well. He was commissioned by GM Hwang Kee to create a special patch for charter members (because he felt they should be instantly noticeable).  GM Ahpo was tested an awarded 8th dan directly from KJN Hwang Kee...in the year 2000. In 2002 he was awarded 9th dan (the highest rank traditionally) by the Tang Soo Do Mi Guk Kwan Association. GM is often called the "Godfather" of Tang Soo Do...

He is well known for his Ki power demonstrations, something I hear is quite unique to him.


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## Dave Leverich

I wonder if he'd teach me that making the plant move Qigong...
I REALLY want to be a Jedi and that's just crazy fun 
I think he might be at the HTF nationals in Reno (October), as it's TKD and TSD. I'll have to see if I can get a chance to speak with him again, it's been a few years.


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## Chizikunbo

Dave Leverich said:


> I wonder if he'd teach me that making the plant move Qigong...



LOL My guess is no...GM Ahpo recently did, however, teach a senior Kodanja (i.e. other GM's and a few very senior Kodanja) weekend retreat seminar about the skill...alot was learned, but this is a skill that takes a lifetime to develop ;-) I have heard stories of folks asking him about it at the TSDMGK Nationals and he said "What are you talking about?" lol

--josh


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## Dave Leverich

Heh, I hear you.
I have a plan... I know a few GM's I'll see if I can't infiltrate! Heheh
There's some amazing looking stuff in Qigong for sure though, the health aspects alone seem phenomenal.


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## Chizikunbo

Dave Leverich said:


> Heh, I hear you.
> I have a plan... I know a few GM's I'll see if I can't infiltrate! Heheh
> There's some amazing looking stuff in Qigong for sure though, the health aspects alone seem phenomenal.



Good Plan LOL let me know how it turns out  

I second that, Kigong is PHENOMENAL...finding a skilled practicioner to teach it to you is the hard part  though Dr. Yang, Jwing Ming does have several great resources on the subject...

take care,
--josh


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## mtabone

Josh,

I believe you have many of your facts concerning Kwan Jang Nim Ah Po wrong. First I was at all the Mi Guk Kwan Nationals, and I was present at the last one in Rhode Island. I talked with KJN Ah Po many times during that weekend. I even have a cool picture of him shaking my hand when I got promoted to Sabom. Regardless, I remember having a little talk with him about moving the plants, and energy, as he held a clinic for 5th Dans and up for the Mi Guk Kwan on just that topic. Interesting how he did not talk to anyone about the subject when you tell the story, but I heard him talk at about it a couple of times to various people at that event. KJN Ah Po wants to keep the skill a serious matter, and not a side show attraction. He is a humble man, who does not publicly display his abilities lightly. 

  A couple of Mi Guk Kwan Internationals back, my student, Connor McGinnis, a 9 year old  Cho Dan at the time, was speaking at the banquette on Saturday night, and he was talking about his performance that tournament. He said,  I was winning 8-0 and then I got disqualified and it was funny, so laughter broke outwell, Connor thought we were all laughing at him which was not the caseso he slinked into the hall way after his little speech, and KJN Ah Po saw he was down and followed him. He said, Winning and losing is not the issue. The true trophy is in your heart. And with that he moved a plant which happened to be in the hallway next to where this conversation took place. Anything you believe, you can achieve! and went over to another plant, and moved that one. Connor cant stop talking about it to this day, (neither can his dad who witnessed the whole thing.)  

  Funny, I dont remember you being at any Mi Guk Kwan events Josh

  In all the clinics, classes, and talks with KJN Ah Po, who is my teachers (KJN Ferraro) teacher, I have had nothing but an excellent time, and have always come away learning something new and inspired about my training.  What else is funny thing about the lifetime to develop thing about moving the plants is, how would you know? I mean, you where not there, did not see, hear, experience what the KDJ did that weekend, so how do you know it takes that long to do, even when I know many who took that clinic that weekend and can perform the plant moving demo, with perhaps not the same mastery as KJN Ah Po, but are on that path none the lessjust interesting how people who where not at events and such feel so free to talk about them. 

  TANG SOO!!!

  Mike Tabone


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## mtabone

Josh,

I believe you have many of your facts concerning Kwan Jang Nim Ah Po wrong. First I was at all the Mi Guk Kwan Nationals, and I was present at the last one in Rhode Island. I talked with KJN Ah Po many times during that weekend. I even have a cool picture of him shaking my hand when I got promoted to Sabom. Regardless, I remember having a little talk with him about moving the plants, and energy, as he held a clinic for 5th Dans and up for the Mi Guk Kwan on just that topic. Interesting how he did not talk to anyone about the subject when you tell the story, but I heard him talk at about it a couple of times to various people at that event. KJN Ah Po wants to keep the skill a serious matter, and not a side show attraction. He is a humble man, who does not publicly display his abilities lightly. 

  A couple of Mi Guk Kwan Internationals back, my student, Connor McGinnis, a 9 year old  Cho Dan at the time, was speaking at the banquette on Saturday night, and he was talking about his performance that tournament. He said,  I was winning 8-0 and then I got disqualified and it was funny, so laughter broke outwell, Connor thought we were all laughing at him which was not the caseso he slinked into the hall way after his little speech, and KJN Ah Po saw he was down and followed him. He said, Winning and losing is not the issue. The true trophy is in your heart. And with that he moved a plant which happened to be in the hallway next to where this conversation took place. Anything you believe, you can achieve! and went over to another plant, and moved that one. Connor cant stop talking about it to this day, (neither can his dad who witnessed the whole thing.)  

  Funny, I dont remember you being at any Mi Guk Kwan events Josh

  In all the clinics, classes, and talks with KJN Ah Po, who is my teachers (KJN Ferraro) teacher, I have had nothing but an excellent time, and have always come away learning something new and inspired about my training.  What else is funny thing about the lifetime to develop thing about moving the plants is, how would you know? I mean, you where not there, did not see, hear, experience what the KDJ did that weekend, so how do you know it takes that long to do, even when I know many who took that clinic that weekend and can perform the plant moving demo, with perhaps not the same mastery as KJN Ah Po, but are on that path none the lessjust interesting how people who where not at events and such feel so free to talk about them. 

  TANG SOO!!!

  Mike Tabone


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## Chizikunbo

mtabone said:


> Josh,
> Interesting how he did not talk to anyone about the subject when you tell the story,


SBN Tabone, this story was related to me by a kodanja who I trust very well. I'm not saying he has not talked to anyone about it, in fact I know the opposite is true, i.e. the clinics he held.



> KJN Ah Po wants to keep the skill a serious matter, and not a side show attraction. He is a humble man, who does not publicly display his abilities lightly.



This is very understandable, which may have been part of the story behind the story I was related. I dont know the exact question, whom it was asked by, or how it was asked (attitude etc.) I just remember the story as it was related to me (and it was not in a negative light, nor was my post. I have heard nothing but good things about KJN Ahpo.)


> A couple of Mi Guk Kwan Internationals back, my student, Connor McGinnis, a 9 year old  Cho Dan at the time, was speaking at the banquette on Saturday night, and he was talking about his performance that tournament. He said,  I was winning 8-0 and then I got disqualified and it was funny, so laughter broke outwell, Connor thought we were all laughing at him which was not the caseso he slinked into the hall way after his little speech, and KJN Ah Po saw he was down and followed him. He said, Winning and losing is not the issue. The true trophy is in your heart. And with that he moved a plant which happened to be in the hallway next to where this conversation took place. Anything you believe, you can achieve! and went over to another plant, and moved that one. Connor cant stop talking about it to this day, (neither can his dad who witnessed the whole thing.)


Great story, thanks for sharing...I believe it rings true of what I have heard about KJN Ahpo.


> What else is funny thing about the lifetime to develop thing about moving the plants is, how would you know?



Hmmm... I was certainly not talking about just moving plants, but rather the whole art of Kigong...In my practice of reiki, I have shared many discussions with other people about energy related holistic practices, and kigong teachers were included...all of them did indeed say that it is a life long skill to develop...unless you have evidence to the contrary, I stick my position, from what I have been told firshand. It seems to me you are just looking to go after something as negative, which IS NOT the case. As I have said previously, I have heard nothing but good things about KJN Ahpo...and defiantly have no malice toward him...sorry if you took it that way.

--josh


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## mtabone

Chizikunbo said:


> LOL My guess is no...GM Ahpo recently did, however, teach a senior Kodanja (i.e. other GM's and a few very senior Kodanja) weekend retreat seminar about the skill...alot was learned, but this is a skill that takes a lifetime to develop ;-) I have heard stories of folks asking him about it at the TSDMGK Nationals and he said "What are you talking about?" lol
> 
> --josh



  Josh,

I did not get that the "lifetime to develop" came from Qigong since it was only previously regarded in this post to the moving plants issue, hence, why I took it the way I did. And as a Reiki practitioner myself, (level 2) I dont necessarily agree with the whole life long to develop idea. I believe it is like anything else, with diligent practice one will get better at it over time. And as proof, you can use Reiki for one: all you have to do is attune to the energy and use it with the best of intentions (this is a whole other discussion btw one that could go on its own road, so I dont want to make it too long here) and the plant moving ability that KJN Ah Po taught to the KDJ. That would show that it is not a life long ability, but that it is just like our abilities in martial arts: learn, develop, grow, grow, grow 

And I did take your comment of KJN Ah Po saying I dont know what your talking about? as implying he was not sharing it with the Mi Guk Kwan, like we were not allowed to know or something. As you have said, he did teach a clinic, but you were talking then about a TSDMGK event, you were not at, and saying he was playing dumb, inferring he was playing dumb with the whole MGKsee were I am coming form now?:miffer:

   And I did not take anything from your post that I thought was against KJN Ah Po. 
I took away of a sense of inferring MGK populace was ignorant of KJN Ah Pos teachings, and that I could not let stand (especially about a story told by a who, to a someone, in a some kind of tone, and none of which are known, even by the teller of the story). 

The great thing about the Qigong thing, if you go to a seminar of KJN Ah Po, and you have been training correctly in the martial arts, you have been doing qigong all the time but that is another story.

   Mike Tabone


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## Chizikunbo

Hi SBN Tabone,
I was looking at the plant moving as being an exponent of kigong, a demonstration...but as I understand it, (and I'm no expert) there is much more than this to kigong, for instance the healing aspects...which seem to take more time to develop than that of reiki (which as you brought out is pretty well automatic when you are attuned, all there is left is to work with it, and become more familiarized/natural with it)...but you said it in the last part of your post...martial arts done correctly is kigong, naturally it would probably be easier for the KDJ who have been doing the art for usually 20+ years to take some good instruction and the knowledge they have already accumulated. I usually dont group reiki in the same lot as kigong, simply because of the attunement process...but again I'm not, by far, a kigong expert, and this could make a thread of its own ;-D
To be clear to any readers of this thread, this issue was largely due to my phrasing, which is harder to take in this medium...and to be sure I have nothing bad to say about KJN Ahpo, and it should not be interpreted as such...the story I was related was done so in a different manner than my previous post may have implied, that is to show the good nature of GM Ahpo. The MGK is a great group of practicioners, and nothing was meant to be implied against them either...probably one of the very best group of TSD practitioners around...

anyway, best wishes all!
--josh


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## Makalakumu

If anyone can post a video of this demo, I'd be very interested.  Until then, I'm skeptical.  I've trained for six years in qigong under students who link back to TT Liang who is linked back to A LOT of people who really knew what they were talking about.  Qigong is all about what happens inside.  It doesn't express itself outside like some Jedi power.  I'd hate to see another skilled master in TSD be associated with things that can be seen as cheap parlor tricks.

Trust me, you don't want GM Ah Po to become like this guy.

My teacher always spoke very highly of him...


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## Chizikunbo

Mu uncle is a magician, (is'nt everyones) and he used to do tricks like floating tissues and such...but it was all set up...the thing about KJN Ahpo is that so many people (high ranking tangsoodoin) express stories about the impromptu nature of his demonstrations, and the fact that he teaches others to do it. I remember on the old warrior-scholar forum SBN Fredrick Scott (7th dan) told a story of beign at a TGIF and GM Ahpo started spinning the hanging pots (you know like the ones you would find on a porch), same SBN tells a story of KJN Ahpo shaking plants at a hotel lobby desk, and the guy at the desk started screaming about him being possessed. SBN Tabone has seen it, KJN Penfil has seen it, KJN Ferraro has seen it/studied it, the list goes on and on ;-)
Also, KJN Ahpo is known to be a very honest man, who cares about his art...what would he have to gain...more to lose yes?
--josh


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## Master Jay S. Penfil

Greetings to all

Let me chime in here for a minute. When I was at the TSDMGK tournament in Louisiana in 2005 I had the good fortune of being engaged in a conversation with KJN Ah Po in the lobby outside of the hall where the tournament was taking place. This lobby was on the second floor and there were no windows or doors to the outside, and no air vents that I could see in the area where we were standing

A student walked up to KJN Ah Po and asked; Sir, is it true that you can move plants with your mind? KJN Ah Po smiled and said; dont be silly of course not. The student walked away, KJN Ah Po looked me straight in the eye, turned to a plant that was approximately five feet away and slowly waved his hand from side to side. The plant moved with his hand as if there were a string attached. It blew my mind.

In April of this year I hosted the grand opening of my new school. Both KJN Ah Po and KJN Ferraro were here along with KJN C.I. Kim. On Saturday evening I took the three of them down to Greek Town in Detroit for dinner. When it was time to leave the restaurant KJN Ferraro and I were bringing up the rear of the group. As we were walking down a spiral stairway along the inside of the building there was a large fern bush. KJN Ferraro stopped and did the same movement that I had witnessed KJN Ah Po do in 2005 and just as KJN Ah Po had moved the plant in Louisiana, KJN Ferraro was moving that fern plant in Greek Town right in front of me.

I looked him straight in the eye and asked; one seminar and you are already able to do it? KJN Ferraro said yes!!! Six of us did it right away.

KJN Ah Po has stated that the ability is in each of us. You just have to understand it and you can do it.

We have a Sensei here in Michigan whose daughter was diagnosed over twenty years ago with an inoperable brain tumor. His family exhausted all western medical resources and thought that this little girl was going to die. He was introduced to a Quigong master; this man was able to over the course of one year, shrink the tumor and eventually got rid of it all together. 

Today this sensei is a grandfather from this daughter that was spared. He was so taken by what he witnessed with his own daughter that he has spent his entire life since that time studying and teaching others in the hope that he can help others as his family was helped.

I have referred many to him, and everyone that I have referred to him have experiences great results. One of my best friends and his wife suffered several miscarriages since their wedding 3 years ago. I sent them to see this sensei. They delivered their first son two months ago. 

There are many such stories that I can share with you here, but time is short and I must get class started in a couple of minutes.

Keep this in mind. Western Medicine is 250 years old. Chinese Medicine is 5,000 years old. KJN Ah Po is from Hawaii. His family history goes back a long way as Kahuna. His family has passed great knowledge down thru the years from generation to generation. He is a great human being on many levels, and you can take my word for it. What he knows and what he does is for real.


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## tsdmgk1336

I've had the very distinct pleasure and honor to meet Kjn AhPo.  he is to me a great man and deserves to the respect he deserves in my book...


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## LADD

I have not had opportunity to meet KJN Ahpo, but I have met KJN Ferraro a couple of times. I observed KJN Ferraro perform this plant moving thing, and was intrigued. Speaking honestly, I'm interested to learn this, but I'm not sure why. Seems a bit like parlor-trick to me, but still pretty interesting. I am told that KNJ Ahpo can, with the same skill set, force doors open, etc. I am skeptical about that, but I was also skeptical about the plant-moving thing, too. 
If someone can teach me this skill in the course of clinic, then I'm interested. Again, I'm not sure why, but I'll admit to curiosity and an interrest in learning.


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## Master Jay S. Penfil

Chizikunbo said:


> GM Ahpo was a charter member of the original United States Tang Soo Do Moo Duk Kwan Federation, he drafted the bylaws of that federation as well. He was a member of the USSBDTSDF form many years as a member of the TAC as well. He was commissioned by GM Hwang Kee to create a special patch for charter members (because he felt they should be instantly noticeable). GM Ahpo was tested an awarded 8th dan directly from KJN Hwang Kee...in the year 2000. In 2002 he was awarded 9th dan (the highest rank traditionally) by the Tang Soo Do Mi Guk Kwan Association. GM is often called the "Godfather" of Tang Soo Do...
> 
> He is well known for his Ki power demonstrations, something I hear is quite unique to him.


 

Josh,
Your time line for GM Ah Po's promotion is incorrect...

In 2002 GM Ah Po tested in front of KJN Hwang Kee along with Vince Martinov and Larry Sieberlink. Shortly after the testing GM Ah Po and H.C. Hwang had their falling out. H.C. Hwang presented both Martinov and Sieberlink with their certification to 8th Dan but refused to Promote GM Ah Po.

H.C. Hwang's action against GM Ah Po was taken by the whole of the Tang Soo Do/Soo Bahk Do community to be wrongfull.

When KJN C.I. Kim and I participated in the 2005 TSDMGK International Championships in New Orleans KJN Kim made the promotion for GM Ah Po to 8th Dan in front of the tournament participants at the Saturday evening banquet dinner. 

Prior to KJN C.I. Kim presenting GM Ah Po with this certificate he NEVER claimed to be an 8th Dan. As he put it to me; If the certificate was not in hand, he could not claim it. When KJN Kim gave him his certificate GM Ah Po stated that there wasn't any other GM that he would have accepted it from, as KJN C.I. Kim, like GM Ah Po had the utmost respect for KJN Hwang Kee and he was the most respected of ALL TSD GM's in GM Ah Po's opinion.

Of the candidates that tested in front of KJN Hwang Kee GM Ah Po was the closest to KJN Hwang Kee and the most qualified (not to say that the other candidates were not qualified). This was just one more time that H.C. Hwang allowed his political and personal crap to negetively effect the community and his father's strongest supporter.

If I recall what KJN Ferraro told me correctly, GM Ah Po's 9th Dan was presented to him by KJN Ferraro and the TSDMGK in 2007.

All the best,


Sensei Jay S. Penfil


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## JoelD

Master Penfil,

The two SBD  Masters who tested along with Master Ah Po are Sa Bom Nim's Victor Martinov and Larry Seiberlich.

Respectfully,

Joel


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## Master Jay S. Penfil

Joel,
Thank you for correcting my spelling on Nim's and first name for SBN's Victor Martinov and Larry Seiberlich.

I have great respect for both of these gentlemen. I have not seen either since the 1989 national championships.

All the best,


Sensei Jay S. Penfil


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