# my knowledge of self defence



## eggg1994 (Dec 5, 2010)

hey i know alot about self defence and place's in the human body you could attack.
there are the vital pressure points which are the ear, nose, thout, groin, and the arteries in the neck. i know alot about the principel's of joint locking and choke application's like for example if the grabed you on the shoulder you could distract them with a palm strike to the face and then grab the wrist and twist it toward's their body and then their bodies reaction would be to drop to the ground. i know alot of defensive technique's like defence from a haymaker, choke from behind, front choke with both hands, headlock, and many more. i also know some follow up strikes which i could use for attack's to distract them so they could give me a joint i could minipulate easly. i know this because of my 1yr of training in brazilian jiu jitsu which i heard was one of the most effective forms of self defence in the world. i am an orange belt in jiu jitsu not japanease jiu jitsu but the brazilian jiu jitsu. if yall have anything to say about my knowledge of self defence then you can post anything you would like for me to discuss.


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## jks9199 (Dec 5, 2010)

What's your source of knowledge?  Do you have direct experience with real violence?  What do you know about REAL violence rather than what you see on TV, what many martial arts teachers think, or even just what most folks believe?  

(I'll give you a hint.  There's a big clue in my signature.)


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## Ken Morgan (Dec 5, 2010)




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## seasoned (Dec 5, 2010)

You do seem to know a lot of things pertaining to self defense. Over the years I also have learned things. But, there is one thing that sticks out in my mind, and has served me well over those years. On the Shoman wall in my dojo, my sensei printed these words high, close to the ceiling, that read, *"those that know, do not speak, those that speak do not know".*  My sensei has passed away, but out of all he taught me, it is these words that have made the biggest impression on my life, and I also have passed these words down to my students. There are underlying meanings in these words, that need pondering. Within these words are a technique that has saved me from much trouble, and I share this saying with you.......... 
Also, welcome to MT, I hope you find all you are seeking, here, enjoy.


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## jks9199 (Dec 5, 2010)

Ken Morgan said:


>


I don't think he's a troll.  I do suspect he's young, and lacks life experience.  I am rather curious which location is correct; his profile is listing both Amirillo, TX, and Japan.  And he says he trains 7 minutes a day in kickboxing...  Not sure about how he fits being an assistant instructor in training into those 7 minutes.


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## Bill Mattocks (Dec 5, 2010)

2010 - 1994 = 16


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## Tez3 (Dec 5, 2010)

jks9199 said:


> I don't think he's a troll. I do suspect he's young, and lacks life experience. I am rather curious which location is correct; his profile is listing both Amirillo, TX, and Japan. And he says he trains 7 minutes a day in kickboxing... Not sure about how he fits being an assistant instructor in training into those 7 minutes.


 
Not THE Amarillo! it's famous here!

PS his profile says he's on an autism social site. don't rip him apart yet people.


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## oaktree (Dec 5, 2010)

eggg1994 said:


> hey i know alot about self defence and place's in the human body you could attack.
> there are the vital pressure points which are the ear, nose, thout, groin, and the arteries in the neck. i know alot about the principel's of joint locking and choke application's like for example if the grabed you on the shoulder you could distract them with a palm strike to the face and then grab the wrist and twist it toward's their body and then their bodies reaction would be to drop to the ground. i know alot of defensive technique's like defence from a haymaker, choke from behind, front choke with both hands, headlock, and many more. i also know some follow up strikes which i could use for attack's to distract them so they could give me a joint i could minipulate easly. i know this because of my 1yr of training in brazilian jiu jitsu which i heard was one of the most effective forms of self defence in the world. i am an orange belt in jiu jitsu not japanease jiu jitsu but the brazilian jiu jitsu. if yall have anything to say about my knowledge of self defence then you can post anything you would like for me to discuss.


 
This is excellent I am happy of your progress and excitement. 
 BJJ is indeed an effective martial art the most effective in the world I believe depends on the practitioner and not so much the art it self. 

Since you are in Japan you can visit the Takeda dojo it is in Tokyo. 
 Sakuraba and you can discuss the pros and cons of BJJ and wrestling over Watermelon.
My friend who trained there told me he likes to eat watermelon alot.


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## Tez3 (Dec 5, 2010)

Can we please reserve judgement here before deciding this poster is a troll?


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## ForeverStudent (Dec 5, 2010)

"autismspeaks social network"

He is probably 16 years old boy with autism problem. Martial arts are maybe his first bigger social contact, and please don't put him back and say he is a troll.

Martial arts community should accept people as they are and try to make them better. Pushing people down because "they are wrong" is bad, no, who pushes, he is wrong.

eggg1994, hello and happy posting. Here you for sure will find much useful informations, and friendly people. Remember, martial art isn't just a fighting to survive, it can be great tool to help you grow mentally and psihicaly, so as to meet much new people and make new friendships.

Greetings!


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## WC_lun (Dec 5, 2010)

Fighting is fighting, no matter what style you learn.  Style is just a starting point or view from a particular focus.  As you train longer, you'll start realizing that there are a lot of truths in martial arts that transcend style.  I would caution you against taking the mantle of being knowledgable about self-defense with one year experience in an art and little or no experience of really defending yourself on the street.  Rolling on the mats is a great thing and creates valuble experience, but it isn't the same thing as defending yourself against some chucklehead who really wants to hurt you.  Real fighting is quick, nasty, brutal, scary, and very, very, rarely resembles what anyone learns in a training hall.


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## KenpoTex (Dec 6, 2010)

Tez3 said:


> Not THE Amarillo! it's famous here!



Let me take a wild guess...it's famous 'cause of this? 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPaRQ1BYjzU&feature=related


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## Tez3 (Dec 6, 2010)

KenpoTex said:


> Let me take a wild guess...it's famous 'cause of this?
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPaRQ1BYjzU&feature=related


 
That's my boys lol!


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## Cirdan (Dec 6, 2010)

Well it is normal to feel at the top of the world after a year or so of training, spend some more time and you will see just how little you actually know. 

Orange belt in BJJ is a junior rank for those under 15 is it not?


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## Chris Parker (Dec 6, 2010)

Hi eggg1994,

I applaud your enthusiasm, however I would caution you against putting yourself up as an "expert", especially in this field and in this company. I'm going to try to be as gentle as I can here, but I'm going to go through your post and demonstrate a few things you may be unaware of at the moment.



eggg1994 said:


> hey i know alot about self defence and place's in the human body you could attack.


 
The first question any of us would ask is what do you feel makes you qualified to make such a definate, bold statement.

The second thing is to clarify what you know about self defence. Realistically, it has little to do with things like knowing places in the human body to attack, and has far more to do with understanding the effects of adrenaline, proper awareness of your environment (including legal systems), the realities of gross-motor actions, understanding of the common attacks that you could encounter, and more. We'll cover that as we go on.



eggg1994 said:


> there are the vital pressure points which are the ear, nose, thout, groin, and the arteries in the neck.


 
While these are certainly viable targets, they are not necessarily anywhere near as available, or even as effective as you are thinking. And again, the idea of relying on these targeting concepts is not really a good one when it comes down to it. For self defence, think broader. Body. Jaw. That kind of thing. And more importantly, train a gross-motor (simple) strike, or few strikes, that can be applied under the effects of a high-level adrenaline surge.



eggg1994 said:


> i know alot about the principel's of joint locking and choke application's like for example if the grabed you on the shoulder you could distract them with a palm strike to the face and then grab the wrist and twist it toward's their body and then their bodies reaction would be to drop to the ground.


 
That is an idealised situation as found in a class/dojo situation. And, honestly, it won't go down that way.



eggg1994 said:


> i know alot of defensive technique's like defence from a haymaker, choke from behind, front choke with both hands, headlock, and many more.


 
Defensive techniques, honestly, mean nothing when it comes to self defence. Well trained principles, on the other hand, are vital. The techniques are a way to get to the principles, but by themselves don't actually mean much.



eggg1994 said:


> i also know some follow up strikes which i could use for attack's to distract them so they could give me a joint i could minipulate easly.


 
This is closer to a principle, but it isn't a great one. It reads as a "I think I could" statement, untested and unverified under realistic circumstances. I have very real doubts as to it's applicability.



eggg1994 said:


> i know this because of my 1yr of training in brazilian jiu jitsu which i heard was one of the most effective forms of self defence in the world.


 
1 year in any art is barely starting out, I have to say it is not really any basis to claim to "know a lot" about such things. Relax, enjoy the classes, learn what you can, and eventually you may get to a point where you start to approach that degree of understanding, hopefully you will.

In terms of you hearing BJJ was "one of the most effective forms of self defence in the world", bear in mind that that, really, is a marketing term. BJJ is designed to be a specialist system, geared primarily against other BJJ practitioners, rather than actually designed for self defence. Does that mean it can't be used for self defence? No, not at all, it just means that self defence is not what it was designed for, so take such statements with a grain of salt, from anyone saying it for any art whatsoever.



eggg1994 said:


> i am an orange belt in jiu jitsu not japanease jiu jitsu but the brazilian jiu jitsu.


 
From what we understand, orange belt is a junior belt (it doesn't exist in the adult rankings), typically for practitioners under the age of 15. Do you mind if you ask how old you are?



eggg1994 said:


> if yall have anything to say about my knowledge of self defence then you can post anything you would like for me to discuss.


 
To begin with, could you answer the above questions? Until they are covered, it may be difficult for many members here to consider you someone who truly knows much about the subject, especially as many have been training much longer than you have been alive, and still don't consider themselves "experts" by any stretch. 

As well as that, could you possibly confirm Tez's thoughts that you are autistic (you wouldn't be the first, or alone here on that, by the way), unless that is too personal a question. If it is, I understand, but it may help others in understanding where you are coming from.


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## Slipper (Dec 6, 2010)

I realize that I lurk more than post, but I have tried to make quality posts during my time here. (I am hopeful that nobody thinks I'm trolling when I make this statement). 

I came across a young man on a very unfriendly autism board (I'm a parent of a child with autism) and because of his interest in martial arts suggested he post here. 

I assured him that this was a great board to visit. He is not a troll. He is young, not very experienced in social matters and perhaps a bit over-enthusiastic. He's a nice person and really wants to discuss MA. Thank you all for your kindness and guidance. I know he can learn a lot from you all. :asian:

Edited to add - My Friend, slow down and don't worry about trying to impress everyone. This is a great group.


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## oaktree (Dec 6, 2010)

Hi Slipper thank you for explaining things I am sure myself and others will be sure to 
treat him with respect and gentle guidance.

:wavey:


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## TigerCraneGuy (Dec 7, 2010)

eggg1994 said:


> hey i know alot about self defence and place's in the human body you could attack.
> there are the vital pressure points which are the ear, nose, thout, groin, and the arteries in the neck. i know alot about the principel's of joint locking and choke application's like for example if the grabed you on the shoulder you could distract them with a palm strike to the face and then grab the wrist and twist it toward's their body and then their bodies reaction would be to drop to the ground. i know alot of defensive technique's like defence from a haymaker, choke from behind, front choke with both hands, headlock, and many more. i also know some follow up strikes which i could use for attack's to distract them so they could give me a joint i could minipulate easly. i know this because of my 1yr of training in brazilian jiu jitsu which i heard was one of the most effective forms of self defence in the world. i am an orange belt in jiu jitsu not japanease jiu jitsu but the brazilian jiu jitsu. if yall have anything to say about my knowledge of self defence then you can post anything you would like for me to discuss.


 
Glad to hear that you're enjoying your MA journey.

Keep on working at those skills; Train hard and stay safe.

And BTW... welcome to MT!

TCG


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## eggg1994 (Dec 7, 2010)

hey guy's i never said i was an expert i was just shareing how much i know that doesn't mean im an expert. well to tell you the truth is that i only know the most commen street attacks in bjj and i just do the kickboxing stuff for fun. i have alot of backgrounds in martial arts which i never got far in then in bjj. i have just been doing bjj for a year and really i learned in my bjj art that if i use leverage and proper technique then i would be able to defend myself. im just trying to help make this martial arts community better i never called myself the expert. the reason why i said i knew alot about joint locks is because i know the mechanics behind them. just understand me please


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## eggg1994 (Dec 7, 2010)

well thank you for warning me yall shouldn't believe in everything i say. im learning too you know. i never meant to offend anyone


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## eggg1994 (Dec 7, 2010)

i never said i was better then anyone im just shareing how much i know, just understand me i know basic self defence techniques the reason why i said that was not to impress yall but to show yall how much expirence i have. 

this wasn't to make yall think im superior


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## Slipper (Dec 7, 2010)

Eggg, thanks for posting. I'm sure that the misunderstanding is cleared up. Enjoy posting here, I feel confident that this is a great place for you and you will learn a lot. And congrats for sticking to BJJ for so long. It's nice that you found your area that you enjoy. 

Take care


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## Chris Parker (Dec 7, 2010)

Hi eggg1994,

Don't worry too much about offending us, you didn't at all. We have, however, seen a number of people come on here as self-professed "experts", so we have a tendency to view people who claim to have figured out the secrets after only a very short time with a degree of trepidation.

In terms of your training, it's great that you have found a match in BJJ, it's a fantastic system. But do remember that it is only one approach, and is just as limited as any other. Learning the principles of the system is the right approach, rather than focusing on techniques, so well done on that one!

One of the best bits of advice I can give you is to not be scared of asking questions, there are people here who have been training in just BJJ longer than you have been on the planet, and others who have done the same in other arts as well (such as myself), so don't be afraid to ask in areas that you don't have any experience in. And of course, if there's something that you can add from your experience, that would be most welcome. Just don't be too concerned if others offer a different opinion, that happens a fair bit.

Welcome aboard.


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## eggg1994 (Dec 7, 2010)

yes i am autistic do yall have a problem with me. i am not unfriendly, arrogant, nor a know it all expert. yall need to realize that im trying my hardest to make things better too many people critize people about how their martial art is not the best self defence. my question here is how do you know that their martial art is not good for self defence? its not the art that makes the person better, but its the person doing it with belief. too many of yall think im an expert well im not im just an orange belt in bjj who really knows the basic's of self defence that doesn't make me an expert. i want to be a martial arts instructor one day and nobody is going to critisize me because i believe in myself which gives me strength to never give up even in a self defence situation. yes i may be autistic but that doesn't mean im retarded. i deserve the same respect as yall do. i was just showing you my basic knowledge of self defence and how do you know im 15 anyway. you don't know anything about how hard i train and what i do as a junor assist instructor we call it leadership team. im not a black belt im an orange belt who is really dedecated in learning as much self defence as i can. so please stop questioning me and critisizeing me thats rude and a martial artist is never rude nor arrogant. i think the real people who are arrogant right now are the people who said something bad about me.


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## stone_dragone (Dec 7, 2010)

Brother Eggg, 

First and most important...Welcome to MT!  I'm on and off based on my schedule, so I missed the beginning of the conversation...

I'm certain that no one has a problem with you.  Quite to the contrary, I personnally find your energetic approach uplifting!  I hope that you stick with the arts and get to teach them one day.  The ugly truth is, you will get criticized from time to time.  We all have.  What will make you a quality instructor is this very belief in yourself...keep it up!



eggg1994 said:


> i want to be a martial arts instructor one day and nobody is going to critisize me because i believe in myself which gives me strength to never give up


 
One of the limitations that a forum like this has is that the written word can only show so much.  I ask you to be as patient with us and show us the same respect that you deserve instead of accusing us of not knowing anything about you.  We know that you came here to talk about something that you love, just like the rest of us have.  For me, that's all I need to know about you. 



eggg1994 said:


> so please stop questioning me and critisizeing me thats rude and a martial artist is never rude nor arrogant. i think the real people who are arrogant right now are the people who said something bad about me.


 
Again, the ugly truth is that somtimes martial artists are rude and arrogant.  Please forgive us of that as we forgive you.  The questions are going to come...accept them and know that learning isn't about answers, its about questions.  We are trying to learn, too.  That's why we're all here!

Again, its great to have you here and I look forward to your future posts!


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## Tez3 (Dec 7, 2010)

eggg1994 said:


> yes i am autistic do yall have a problem with me. i am not unfriendly, arrogant, nor a know it all expert. yall need to realize that im trying my hardest to make things better too many people critize people about how their martial art is not the best self defence. my question here is how do you know that their martial art is not good for self defence? its not the art that makes the person better, but its the person doing it with belief. too many of yall think im an expert well im not im just an orange belt in bjj who really knows the basic's of self defence that doesn't make me an expert. i want to be a martial arts instructor one day and nobody is going to critisize me because i believe in myself which gives me strength to never give up even in a self defence situation. yes i may be autistic but that doesn't mean im retarded. i deserve the same respect as yall do. i was just showing you my basic knowledge of self defence and how do you know im 15 anyway. you don't know anything about how hard i train and what i do as a junor assist instructor we call it leadership team. im not a black belt im an orange belt who is really dedecated in learning as much self defence as i can. so please stop questioning me and critisizeing me thats rude and a martial artist is never rude nor arrogant. i think the real people who are arrogant right now are the people who said something bad about me.


 

As the others have said we can start anew understanding each other now. We know you aren't retarded, it's just we do get people on here who try to sell us their 'new' systems of martial arts or they want to tell us how good they are and how bad we are, you can understand how that upsets us! Stay with us and you will see them for yourself and they will annoy you too!
 Stay with us and be part of the team, we all love martial arts and we know we don't know everything, I'm betting you know more BJJ than I do so your contributions here will be valuable. As the others have said we are looking forward to your company here, so post away. You'll enjoy it I promise.


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## Xue Sheng (Dec 7, 2010)

Welcome to MT


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## jks9199 (Dec 7, 2010)

eggg1994 said:


> i never said i was better then anyone im just shareing how much i know, just understand me i know basic self defence techniques the reason why i said that was not to impress yall but to show yall how much expirence i have.
> 
> this wasn't to make yall think im superior


Let me make a suggestion about phrasing, because sometimes how you say something can obscure what you're trying to say -- and that can even be enough to trigger a fight in some social situations.

What I think you're trying to say is this: "I've learned a lot, and I'd like to discuss it."  But what's coming across is "I know so much, you should listen to me!" Especially on line, where we can't look at you and realize that you're an enthusiastic young man...  And, on self-defense, a lot of what you've learned is less than ideal or accurate.  I think this has kind of been pounded here already -- so let me suggest a few places to learn more.

I'd suggest starting with two books:  *Meditations On Violence*, by Rory Miller, and *On Killing *by Dave Grossman.  Rory Miller is a retired correctional sergeant who has a lot of direct experience with real self defense and in dealing with real predators, and he's got a gift for expressing his knowledge well.  Dave Grossman is a retired US Army colonel and psychologist whose major emphasis of study is understanding what happens to the mind and body under the stress of combat and life & death encounters.  

*Unfinished Murder: The Capture of a Serial Rapist* by James Neff is also an instructive read.  Neff did extensive research into a serial rapist in Cleveland, OH, talking to cops, psychologists, victims, and even the rapist.  It's a very instructive glimpse into a predator --and there's a very strong argument to be made that Ronnie Shelton (the rapist) was stopped in the nick of time, before he crossed over into serial killer.


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## WC_lun (Dec 7, 2010)

I can also reccomend Rory Miller's book.  It offers a pretty realistic aproach to self defense.

Egg, sometimes it is difficult to tell if a school is good at teaching self-defense.  If you don't have much experience in self-defense itself,it can be difficult to seperate the fantasy ideas from the reality.  One thing to look for is if what is being taught makes sense to you. Another is if the techniques being taught simple, direct, and efficient.  Since you test your skills by rolling, you should get an idea of this very quickly.

The big thing I see with many sport grappling schools is the tendency to have a poor understanding of striking.  Many times they have little idea of what to do with thier hands and feet until into the grappling range.  Obviously, not every grappling school is like this, but it is somehting to be aware of.  If you aren't proficient with striking as well as grappling, and everything in between, you aren't really well prepared for a self-defense situation.


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## eggg1994 (Dec 7, 2010)

well my school is not all sport we have a self defence class that is mma based with a combonation of kickboxing techniques and bjj techniques. so we are not only a sport school and at my school we don't focus all sport and no self defence


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## eggg1994 (Dec 7, 2010)

my school is not all sport grappling but we do have a self defence class that we call the family basics which is a combonation of kickboxing and bjj self defence techniques its mixed martial arts and my instructor said in a real fight a street thug will normaly throw more then 1 punch he could throw vollies of punches


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## eggg1994 (Dec 7, 2010)

well thank you for understanding me its just people earlyer were critisizing me which i do not like anyway people can be jerks or even bullies on here sometimes but i didn't give into shame but instead i stood up for myself against the jerks on here to show them that i am not to be messed with or bullied


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## ForeverStudent (Dec 7, 2010)

Hey, BJJ is great martial art. If you have self confidence and will, sure you will be good in it.

But, what is good?

I think good is when you give your best. That is my measure and always will be. Don't judge yourself good just if you know better then somebody else, question is - did you give it all from you? If you did, you are good.

Self confidence and will are sure two things must have if somebody want to give their best. So, it's great!

Self defense isn't only purpose of martial arts, don't forget that! I think art is also what you have in your head and heart when you are at home, and not hitting and throwing bags or persons, what you have when you are not in the sport competition. Martial art should lead to one's mental progression, understanding of goodness and love. Self defense is what came on that way, if you give time and proper training to it. 

One thing martial artist should be, specially higher ranks and assistants - is nice and polite. In behavior in real life, but on the internet to.

I hope you wan't see it bad if i say that you posts doesn't look so polite, in meanings of gramatic. If you started to use interpunction and capital so as small letters, so as write one big post (or update last post) instead of writing 3 posts in row - it would me so nice and polite, so as assistant and orange belt should be.

Greetings!


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## eggg1994 (Dec 7, 2010)

well i forgive you and im really sorry about the posts you know im not mean you know but i didn't know that my posts were impolite. your right about what being a martial artist is about is mental pregression should come before self defence because without mental progression then the martial artist himself would be ruthless and only use his techniques to inspire fear and authority


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## ForeverStudent (Dec 7, 2010)

eggg1994 said:


> well i forgive you and im really sorry about the posts you know im not mean you know but i didn't know that my posts were impolite. your right about what being a martial artist is about is mental pregression should come before self defence because without mental progression then the martial artist himself would be ruthless and only use his techniques to inspire fear and authority



Your posts are polite...but how should i desribe what i mean...ah my english. Let's say: you are polite but your posts looks so messy, and disorderly. It's act of showing no respect to the people on this boards. Which are polite to you! So you be to them. Use interpunctions and capital and small letters and it ill be so ok! But don't get me wrong, i didn't say you are inpolite, just gramatic of your posts.

You are right, i know many people who mastered their moves perfectly, but their mind poor. They are ruthless in most time. Violence (well martial art in one meaning is controled violent) without mental progression leads to nothing good. Sadly to say trends are not today so good, so i know really many bad people, yet holders of high rankings in their arts.

One of my main rules of self defense is - if i fight, my self defense is already failed. When i don't get in fight, my self defense is sucess. Fight is last resort! Offcourse, people get in situations where they can't make a choice...what i say, i hope i never get into one!


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## Slipper (Dec 7, 2010)

Good suggestions ForeverStudent. Something I always do before hitting the 'submit reply' button is to remember that my posts are read by people I know, possibly including my Sensei and those I train with each week. I feel like what I do in the area of martial arts (including online) is a reflection on my Sensei. He would not tolerate poor manners in the dojo. 

I agree with you about fighting also. I do my best to avoid fights. Part of that is taking care not to be in situations that are risky. Aikido is about blending and I have tried to (verbally) blend with those I am in disagreement with. Not always easy, but I feel better about at least trying.


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## Tez3 (Dec 8, 2010)

ForeverStudent said:


> Your posts are polite...but how should *i desribe* what* i* mean...ah *my english*. Let's say: you are polite but your posts looks so messy, and disorderly. It's act of showing no respect to the people on this boards*. Which* are polite to you! So you be to them. Use* interpunctions* and capital and small letters and *it ill* be so ok! *But* don't get me wrong,* i* didn't say you are inpolite, just *gramatic* of your posts.
> 
> You are right,* i* know many people who mastered their moves perfectly, but their mind poor. They are ruthless in most time. Violence (well martial art in one meaning is *controled violent*) without mental progression leads to nothing good. *Sadly* to say *trends are not today so good*, so *i* know really many bad people, yet holders of high rankings in their arts.
> 
> One of my main rules of self defense is - if *i* fight, my self defense is already failed. When *i* don't get* in* fight, my self defense is sucess. Fight is last resort! *Offcourse*, people get in situations where they can't make a choice...what *i* say, *i *hope *i* never get into one!


 

I'm not being funny but your post itself is lacking punctuation, capital letters where appropriate, there are mis-spellings and bad grammar, I know English isn't your first langauge but it's not fair to criticise someone who's English is on a par with yours. We can understand both of you and we realise both of you are trying hard to communicate when it's a difficult thing to do. Young Eggg is doing a good job and his English like yours doesn't show disrespect at all.


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## ForeverStudent (Dec 8, 2010)

Ok, my apologies! English isn't my first language but i am trying to make it better and better!


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## Tez3 (Dec 8, 2010)

ForeverStudent said:


> Ok, my apologies! English isn't my first language but i am trying to make it better and better!


 

Your English is good but criticisng anothers is a bit cheeky!


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## eggg1994 (Dec 21, 2010)

hey guys i realize now i don't know that much about self defence but would joint locks or throws with a combonation of strikes and low kicks be effective for self defence. i learned that most fights start standing but then they go in the clinch and eventually the ground. i have actually learned thar being a martial artist is about never giveing up and believeing in yourself rather then fighting or power.i have had encounters with people in my school one who was in my biology class who said i was pathetic and threatened to beat me up if i told on him and i had another expirence in my naborhood and some middle school aged children said i was sexy and cute which i told them to shut up and i cussed at them which i shouldn't have done. i need to know what to do if someone verbaly harrasses me.


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## Chris Parker (Dec 21, 2010)

Hi eggg1994,

Throws, locks, chokes, strikes, and everything else can be effective for self defence... but it's not as simple as "throws are effective", or "strikes are effective". They all can be, but they can all not be at the same time, it depends on what the exact situation you are in calls for. The best self defence skill you can have is awareness, both of what is going on around you, and of what will be your best choice in any situation. And remember that most of the time, it won't be something physical.

For example, you ask what to do if someone verbally harrasses you. In many cases, the best thing to do is to ignore them and walk away. That takes away their power (you aren't there to be a target), as well as removing what they want to achieve (getting you upset). So, by removing yourself from the situation, you are actually beating them by not giving them what they want. There are other circumstances where other things are best, but for the majority, walking away is the best thing you can do.


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## Sarge (Mar 1, 2011)

Egggg , I am sorry, but your statements are the very thing that makes me lose my cool when it comes to BJJ. I have a essay I wrote about it on another thread here, but I will shorten it greatly here. I am not trying to belittle you or BJJ, but this crap has to stop.

BJJ is a *sporting art*, derived from judo, not a combat art nor is it anywhere near a self defense system. And with what you describe, you do not have experience in what is required of you when you defend yourself. I have a BB in AikiJuijitsu, and have trained for many years in various other arts, along with Military and street experience. Why? Because it takes alot of knowledge of alot of things to understand self defense. Sorry to say, trying to take me to the ground and armbar or choke me has little to do with it. Real Life situations happen so fast, and are so violent, well, good luck with that, and those moves.

You are in a Martial Art that takes many years to master and put into use, IN THE RING. I know this because I have a freind who is a BB in BJJ and I myself was offered a Blue Belt at one time, but why should I pay the cover charge and get that when I already have a BB in AikiJJ? 

And here you are on a forum, with less than a years experience, telling us you know and understand what you are talking about, and how ready you are defend yourself on the streets. Many of the guys and gals on here have 20-40 years of experience, and hold multiple belts in many arts, BJJ among them. If you understood how you sound, you wouldn't say it (I hope). Most of us would tell you stop looking for trouble (which is how you come off, to me at least), study and work hard at your chosen art, and be humble. 

Like the man above said, he who knows the most, usually talks the least, and I usually follow that because most the folks on here say what I would have, but I had to respond this time, because of the garbage that alot (NOT ALL) of BJJ players are brainwashed into by their instructors who ram these falsehoods down thier students throats. Do they want to see them get hurt or killed?

Here's a little advice:

First thing, throw all the macho bravado away, that so permeates BJJ, it will get you in trouble.

Second thing I will tell you is, after you are up in the ranks, take something else along with BJJ, Boxing, Kempo, Karate.. something along those lines.

I don't want to discourage you from acheiving your goals in BJJ, it is a great art to learn, but don't make it into something it is not, and don't let someone tell you that it is something it is not, that can be really dangerous.

And yes, I know in a later respose you admitted that you really don't know as much as you thought, and maybe some of your statement's intent is lost in translation, but,  I hear what you have said so often from BJJ players, that I am scared for them. And I am just not going to let these stand without a response anymore.

Sarge


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## MJS (Mar 1, 2011)

Just as an FYI, eggg1994 is no longer a member here, therefore he will not be able to reply to any threads.


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## Sarge (Mar 1, 2011)

Thanks, I guess I came to the dance late, as usual. I am trying hard to be "Nice" when it comes to this particular subject, but I have found that this is a big problem, at least with the BJJ folks around my area. They belittle anything else, and challenge people to fight. On top of that , when they issue a challenge, they want you to come to thier dojo, and play by thier rules, and if you disagree, your a wu55y or a loser. 

I don't have a problem with walking away, that's easy, no big deal. What I have a huge problem with, is the instructors passing this nonsense on to thier students, along with other outright bullcrap that is going to result in someone getting hurt. And knowing the locals like I do, when it happens, they are going to tell that kid, it was his fault and if they would have applied the techniques properly, they would have won. No matter the situation.

It just really torques me off

Sarge


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## MJS (Mar 1, 2011)

Sarge said:


> Thanks, I guess I came to the dance late, as usual. I am trying hard to be "Nice" when it comes to this particular subject, but I have found that this is a big problem, at least with the BJJ folks around my area. They belittle anything else, and challenge people to fight. On top of that , when they issue a challenge, they want you to come to thier dojo, and play by thier rules, and if you disagree, your a wu55y or a loser.
> 
> I don't have a problem with walking away, that's easy, no big deal. What I have a huge problem with, is the instructors passing this nonsense on to thier students, along with other outright bullcrap that is going to result in someone getting hurt. And knowing the locals like I do, when it happens, they are going to tell that kid, it was his fault and if they would have applied the techniques properly, they would have won. No matter the situation.
> 
> ...


 
No problem.   IMO, I think that all arts have something to offer, but likewise, it is a bit annoying, when someone makes something out to be the end all, be all of martial arts.  Nothing against BJJ.  I've got many friends who train it, I've done it, its one of the best arts to go to if you want to improve your ground game.  But like all arts, it too, has its limitations.


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## Apatride (Mar 2, 2011)

Hi guys,

I am new here and I am far from being half as experienced in Martial Arts and self defense as most of the guys are but I would like to share my thoughts on this particular subject with you.

1) Yes, BJJ is a trend at the moment. This does not mean that it is a bad art or that its practitioners are all bad but as every trend (Boxing after Rocky, Kung Fu after Bruce Lee, Karate after Karate kid...) it tends to be he favourite choice for wanna be badass and people who have something to prove to themselves anyway. It also attracts people who are scared and looking for the best solution to their problem. No disrespect to anyone intended. The problem is not the art, not the practitioners who practice because they love the art. Just that being under the spot lights is not such a good thing for a sport.

2) What is the most useful physical training you can get for self defense ? Track and field !!!

3) Is BJJ a good choice for self defense ? This is where I have a problem:
a) BJJ is a ground specialists art. Of course, it is not only this but it takes the art of ground fighting further than most of the other arts. So considering that the main difference between BJJ and Judo is that BJJ focus even more on ground work and locks/choke and that the question is not "Is Judo or Trad JJ efficient for SD" but "Is BJJ efficient for SD", let s focus on ground and locks/chokes. (once again, I know that BJJ guys can do other things)
b) It has already been discussed, the ground is a dangerous place to be, you are stuck between the floor and whatever comes from above (helped by gravity). In this, if you use your BJJ as a way to get back on your feet (BJJ guy know that well), this is an awesome art. If you go to the floor on a  purpose, well...
c) The locks and chokes are a dead end situation. As Marc Mc Young said, with every technique, there are 2 issues : the first one is that it might not work, the second one is that it might work.
If it does not work, grappling takes time and energy and put you in a difficult situation (and I am not even talking about weapons here...)
If it works and you are a police officer with some backup nearby, well done, you have used the right tool for your job. But if you are not LEO:
-What do you do if the guy does not calm down ? Have you practiced drills to release the lock and move away safely ?
-If the guy is intoxicated, you will injure him before he feels it and run into problems
-Chokes are often considered lethal force
-Keeping a guy on the floor in a lock iis an offence in many countries

So you might win the fight but be aware of legal issues when it comes to grappling in general.

Once again, this is only about one part of BJJ. I know that BJJ can be applied legally and succesfuly but the limits have to be known. A suicide throw where you use the momentum to end up in a mount position over your opponent is a great way to cover some distance fast and stay in a good position while neutralising one opponent but you need to be able to get up  immediately if needed and this exists in other arts. An arm bar, on the other hand (it exxists in other arts too BTW) is probably the dumbest move you can pull in a real fight (unless the idea is to restrain drunk uncle Albert at a family meeting and even there, you might injure him).


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## K831 (Mar 16, 2011)

@ Apatride - some interesting points, thanks. 

@ Sarge - I've run into you in a few threads now and we seem to share a similar thought and have had similar experiences with BJJ and BJJ instructors/practitioners. As with all topics, the BJJ/Ground stuff for SD has people on both sides and in the middle... it comes up "every so often" around here, so you will have plenty of chances to work on "keeping your cool"  As you look through older threads, you will find several long discussions on the topic with good points on both sides. There was one some 6 months or a year ago that both MJS and I posted in quite a bit that I thought had good back and forth discussion, you may find it interesting... anyhow, welcome to the forum and good luck!


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## LuckyKBoxer (Mar 16, 2011)

Apatride said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I am new here and I am far from being half as experienced in Martial Arts and self defense as most of the guys are but I would like to share my thoughts on this particular subject with you.
> 
> ...


 
1. I don't think BJJ is a trend. Its been going on for over 50 years in Brazil, and growing still in popularity in the United States for the last 18 years.
how long does something have to go before it stops being a Fad? or a Trend? and the next trend is moved on to?

2. Sure you use that track and field while the guy has your wife and 5 year old kid standing in front of him.

3.a. like any other art BJJ has a specific focus, that focus can be directly applied to stand up arts, and directly helps any art that has in close fighting. It depends on the goals of the person training it. I have never met any strand up artist who can work in the clinch as well as many of the best BJJ fighters.
b.you forget what if the person you are fighting is bigger, stronger, faster and is kicked your *** at all the stand up ranges.. you last choices are to pray he gets tired of beating your ***, you have someone come save you, or you take it to the ground range and use your skills to regain advantage and end the threat to yourself... its an intensive study of two ranges primarily, the ground range, and the clinch/takedown/throw range.
c.the rest of your argument is more based in morals and ethics then in the martial art itself. you face similar types of problems with any stand up art. if you hit a guy and he falls backward and hits head and dies?? if you poke a guy in the eye and it blinds him for life?? if you kick a guy in the groin and end his ability to reproduce?? If you kick a guys knee and it maims him for life?? if you go to punch and he has a knife and stabs you in the chest?? you can go on and on, it has nothing to do with the art of BJJ, it simply is possibilities in any situation you run into.

like any tools in any martial art the armbar has specific usage. lots of stand up arts teach tools that are foolish to use in certain situations.... lets see a kung fu artist use his deep stance when i throw him in a 5 foot deep pool and jump in and start smacking him around.

lets see see a traditional karate stylist throw one of those powerful stright punches, or a TKD guy throw one of those head kicks when i toss them into a phone booth and start beating them up with my elbows and knees...

everything and every situation is fluid.

I can think of as many scenarios where BJJ movements will be the best scenario to deal with a hostile situation, as I can for scenarios where it would the last thing you would want to use.

as soon as people get past this whole bullcrap about XXXX art is better then XXXX art and start thinking of what tools they are able to utilize the best for any given situation, based on their skill level and their attributes, the better people will be.


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## Apatride (Apr 7, 2011)

1) BJJ is not only a trend, it is a well rounded MA. But at the moment, it does not only get attention from Martial Artists, it also gets attention from Hollywood and people who do not know anything about MAs (and who will switch to something else as soon as it becomes more popular). So it is not just a trend but yes, it is still a trend.

2) Once again, I don t live in the USA and I still have troubles understanding what people face in the USA. But in Europe, there are not that many places where you can get into trouble and where you HAVE to be. If my girlfriend is with me, we only walk through relatively safe areas. If it can be dodgy, we turn back and grab a taxi. The only place/situation I can think of where danger exists and that can not always be avoided is public transportation (mainly train/subway) and even there, running to get some help (or a weapon) might be wiser than bravely staying and ending up helpless watching her being raped (my worst nightmare). In most of the cases, bad guys will neutralise the threat before having fun so outrunning them might be way more efficient than staying and get neutralised.

3) a. I do not underestimate BJJ as a stand up art but which percentage of training is spent working the clinch compared to Judo or Wrestling? I agree that BJJ can produce awesome clinch fighters but it is not absurd to say that the higher the percentage of training in one "range", the better you get at it. So BJJ is not the ultimate stand up art (it seems to be the ultimate one on the ground though, I agree with this)

b. Sure, ground game is not to be underestimated, especially because you have good chances to get there even if it is not on purpose. But, like everything else (including track&field), it is made for specific situations. If you get to the ground and that the guy is better than you, are you not completely screwed too? This might be my lack of practice talking but I have more trouble getting back up rather than taking someone down so for me the ground is a place to go if everything else fails, not the first place to go.

For the rest, I fully agree with you. I am not trying to say that this kung fu is better than this kung fu. Just point out that a MA is like a toolbox and like every tool box, it has its strengths and weaknesses, you can probably fix a car with a plumber toolbox, it might be more difficult than with a mechanics toolbox but does this mean that the mechanics toolbox is better than the plumber one?

So don t get me wrong, I have nothing against BJJ, but I don t like the "BJJ is perfect for everything" as well as I don t like the "my MA kicks BJJ *ss"


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## Indie12 (Apr 8, 2011)

eggg1994 said:


> hey i know alot about self defence and place's in the human body you could attack.
> there are the vital pressure points which are the ear, nose, thout, groin, and the arteries in the neck. i know alot about the principel's of joint locking and choke application's like for example if the grabed you on the shoulder you could distract them with a palm strike to the face and then grab the wrist and twist it toward's their body and then their bodies reaction would be to drop to the ground. i know alot of defensive technique's like defence from a haymaker, choke from behind, front choke with both hands, headlock, and many more. i also know some follow up strikes which i could use for attack's to distract them so they could give me a joint i could minipulate easly. i know this because of my 1yr of training in brazilian jiu jitsu which i heard was one of the most effective forms of self defence in the world. i am an orange belt in jiu jitsu not japanease jiu jitsu but the brazilian jiu jitsu. if yall have anything to say about my knowledge of self defence then you can post anything you would like for me to discuss.


 
Sounds like a combination of arrogance and boldness!


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## Chris Parker (Apr 9, 2011)

Indie, you may want to go back to the first page again.... Eggg was (and still is, really, although he is no longer a member here) a 16 year old boy suffering from autism. He sees the world in very black-and-white categories, and was pretty much just echoing what his instructor had said to him. If he was "normal" (whatever that means....), then I'd agree with you, but Eggg was really a special case. Unfortunately, he turned out to be a bit too special for the site to look after the way he would have needed (which includes people making comments like yours above, as that would typically result in a rather angry responce from him).


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