# Abinico or Abiniko



## Rich Parsons (May 9, 2004)

Abinico is one of the special strikes the GM R. A. Presas has taught.


I would like to hear about the basic description of this technique or style and also after the basic description, maybe some applications.

Thank You
 :asian:


----------



## bart (May 10, 2004)

Is that a variation on the spelling of abaniko (abanico) or is it a completely different type of hit?


----------



## Cruentus (May 10, 2004)

bart said:
			
		

> Is that a variation on the spelling of abaniko (abanico) or is it a completely different type of hit?



Knowing Rich, it's just a variation of spelling to avoid any arguements over how the word is spelled, so the discussion can remain on the technical. I'm guessing, but if I am wrong Rich can thump me over the head on Wednesday when I see him.

 :asian:


----------



## arnisandyz (May 10, 2004)

bart said:
			
		

> Is that a variation on the spelling of abaniko (abanico) or is it a completely different type of hit?



Some dialects don't have "C" so you have abiniko = abinico, eskrima = escrima, etc...

Sometimes called abinico corto (short fanning motion)
its a quick wrist snap strike that can use rebound energy to change directions.  For practice we do on the horizontal plane, then diagonals and vertical. Range is usually closer than a standard strike due to the torquing nature of the wrist arm and body (almost like ringing out a towel or winding up a rubberband and letting it go the other way). I know most of you know this already, just trying to contribute.

Thanks

Andy


----------



## arnisandyz (May 10, 2004)

Sorry, forgot my applications.

This is just one scenerio...Thrust #5 comes in, you sidestep to the left and with a counterclockwise abinico, parry the cane -  rebound to clockwise abinco to wrist (vertical application)  which then rebounds to the opponents right temple (diagonal) opponent blocks (or it rebounds off his head!) to the left temple.  Not particulary powerful shots but rather quick snap hits.

Thanks

Andy


----------



## loki09789 (May 10, 2004)

I have heard that one analogy for Abanico Largo is the "Planting Rice" movement.  Interesting comparison, but probably lost on those of us who didn't grow up around rice farms.


----------



## arnisandyz (May 10, 2004)

loki09789 said:
			
		

> I have heard that one analogy for Abanico Largo is the "Planting Rice" movement.  Interesting comparison, but probably lost on those of us who didn't grow up around rice farms.



Might have to do with the "poking" of the hole before the seed goes in?  Going down the center of two rows and alternating back and forth (thus the largo label)?  Totally guessing! 

Raffy Pambuan also uses "planting rice" to describe a squatting armbar using your body, leaving your hands free.


----------



## arnisandyz (May 10, 2004)

i'm finding playing with the whip really helps to understand the motions of the abinico.  In order to get a good crack (for me anyways) I need to snap the whip back in the other direction.


----------



## Dan Anderson (May 11, 2004)

loki09789 said:
			
		

> I have heard that one analogy for Abanico Largo is the "Planting Rice" movement.  Interesting comparison, but probably lost on those of us who didn't grow up around rice farms.



Yup, that's how RP taught it.  Rather than a quick whip strike, it comes out as a slam dunk.

Yours,
Dan Anderson


----------



## arnisandyz (May 11, 2004)

Can somebody explain in more detail the difference between the more traditional abiniko witik vs the "double-action" abinico and its connection to Professor's Palis-Palis and Tapi tapi?

Thanks

Andy


----------



## Guro Harold (May 11, 2004)

Hi Andy,

It seem to me that the double action abanico in MA has mainly been shown or demonstrated traversing on a straight horizontal or straight vertical axis only.

The witik that I have witnessed in FCS via through Tuhon Ray, has a vertical then horizontal action in it.

The perspective that I come away with is that the abanico technique that I mainly have seen in MA is a result of  having obtained an inside position.  While the double action witik that I have witness with Tuhon Ray, helps to cover the distance and cover yourself as you are entering.

This is not to say that traditional MA does not have this action, because the 80's tapes show the Professor doing some wicked abanicos, some I am still trying to figure out.:asian:

Just my limited observations,

Palusut


----------



## arnisandyz (May 12, 2004)

Palusut said:
			
		

> Hi Andy,
> 
> It seem to me that the double action abanico in MA has mainly been shown or demonstrated traversing on a straight horizontal or straight vertical axis only.
> 
> ...



Thanks Palisut. 

There are so many different variants on abinicos not only across systems but also unique to each individual I meet. Kuya Mike has some mean abinicos that seem to come out of nowhere. 

Andy


----------



## Cruentus (May 12, 2004)

Palusut said:
			
		

> Hi Andy,
> 
> It seem to me that the double action abanico in MA has mainly been shown or demonstrated traversing on a straight horizontal or straight vertical axis only.
> 
> ...



I was talking this one over with Hartman last night.

Although it's hard to tell online, your explaination of how FCS does a double action sounds like one of the ways it is done in Modern Arnis.

I wonder if Tuhon Ray learned it from Professor?

 :asian:


----------



## arnisandyz (May 12, 2004)

Tulisan said:
			
		

> I was talking this one over with Hartman last night.
> 
> Although it's hard to tell online, your explaination of how FCS does a double action sounds like one of the ways it is done in Modern Arnis.
> 
> ...



Might be a good thing ask at the next FCS Gathering, huh Palisut? Get Ray's input on how Professor showed him Abinico vs Gaje vs Bo Sayoc if there is such a difference.


----------



## loki09789 (May 12, 2004)

Is Abanico a technical/conceptual movement or a stand alone system in PI?

It seems that if you look at the basic structure of the movement, play with the ranges, size, axis/plane..... it could be a framework for an entire systemized approach of FMA.


----------



## arnisandyz (May 12, 2004)

loki09789 said:
			
		

> Is Abanico a technical/conceptual movement or a stand alone system in PI?
> 
> It seems that if you look at the basic structure of the movement, play with the ranges, size, axis/plane..... it could be a framework for an entire systemized approach of FMA.




If I remember ready Wiley's book Filipino Martial Culture, he cited several sources where a system name may have been developed.  base on Place - Balintawak, Range - Lameco, Family Name - Sayoc Kali, National Hero - Rizal Arnis, Technique - Double Rappilion, etc.  and mixures of all of them. The may have been more, but  i forgot. I think I recall an example using Abinico as part of the name as well.  I would not be surprised if there are groups out there specializing in the abinico.


----------



## Cruentus (May 12, 2004)

arnisandyz said:
			
		

> If I remember ready Wiley's book Filipino Martial Culture, he cited several sources where a system name may have been developed.  base on Place - Balintawak, Range - Lameco, Family Name - Sayoc Kali, National Hero - Rizal Arnis, Technique - Double Rappilion, etc.  and mixures of all of them. The may have been more, but  i forgot. I think I recall an example using Abinico as part of the name as well.  I would not be surprised if there are groups out there specializing in the abinico.



I know there is at least one system soley based on the abiniko. Forgot the full name, but the guy refered to his entire system as the "Abiniko Style."

Palusat,

Yes, that would be a good question to ask Tuhon Ray, where his Abiniko influence came from, and the differences from the styles he studied. let us know what you find out!

 :asian:


----------



## bart (May 12, 2004)

Hey There,

There is a style "Lapunti Arnis de Abaniko" that emphasizes the use of the abaniko movement. But in general I think that abaniko is just one of the various methods of striking and not a style all its own.


----------



## Guro Harold (May 12, 2004)

Tulisan said:
			
		

> I was talking this one over with Hartman last night.
> 
> Although it's hard to tell online, your explaination of how FCS does a double action sounds like one of the ways it is done in Modern Arnis.
> 
> ...



Hi Paul,

I am sure that the Professor has influenced Tuhon Ray in the arts and in life.  I was referring to Tuhon Ray only in the context of another way that I have seen the abaniko performed.  I do believe however that how Tuhon Ray executes the abaniko was influenced by Pekiti Tersia and Sayoc-Kali.

As for the Professor, again, I never said that he personally never taught this method that I was describing and as I said before, there were some abanikos that I saw in the 80's series that I am trying to figure out.  I only stated that the particular abaniko that basically covers the centerline vertically first then horizontally attacks the temple has not been shown much in my six years of limited exposure in Modern Arnis.

On a side note, one of the cool things of learning Hock Hochheim's Filipino Combatives, which are based on both Remy Sr and Ernesto Presas' systems (some say more of Ernesto's),  is that one of the Hirada Response drills ends with an abaniko set that covers the centerline on the vertical plane.

Again, these are just my thoughts on the matter,

P-A-L-U-S-U-T
 :asian:


----------



## loki09789 (May 12, 2004)

Sort of an interesting observation but the MA abanico double action traces a T pattern in the air.  Flip that pattern upside down and you have the three major cuts of the basic Katana/Kendo movements:  Downward/Vertical, forehand slash to a backhand slash.  Of course MA is primarily trained as a single handed tool manipulation technique and Kendo teaches a two handed method, but it is interesting for observational purposes only.


----------



## Guro Harold (May 12, 2004)

Here are some other observations:

- It appeared to me that alot of the newer tapes from the Professor emphasized more abanico corto examples.  The seminars that I attended in '99 and 2000 emphasized alot more abanico corto than abanico double-action.

- For those who have seen the older tapes, the Professor showed the empty-handed applications of abanico double-action as well.


----------



## Cruentus (May 13, 2004)

Palusut said:
			
		

> Here are some other observations:
> 
> - It appeared to me that alot of the newer tapes from the Professor emphasized more abanico corto examples.  The seminars that I attended in '99 and 2000 emphasized alot more abanico corto than abanico double-action.
> 
> - For those who have seen the older tapes, the Professor showed the empty-handed applications of abanico double-action as well.



That would be due to the emphasis on tapi-tapi over everything else in 99-00, so most of the abinikos were done to aid the inserts & trapping done in tapi-tapi. Hence the corto examples that your seeing on tape. :asian:


----------



## Rich Parsons (May 17, 2004)

bart said:
			
		

> Is that a variation on the spelling of abaniko (abanico) or is it a completely different type of hit?



Bart,

This is just a variation in spelling depending upon location and language. I have seen both therefore I wrote it both ways so as to not offend anyone or their background, and or think I was excluding anyone.

 :asian:


----------



## Mark Lynn (May 23, 2004)

Just food for thought.

When practicing with the double baston I use the horizontal abaniko hit or entry when teaching blocking with the left stick on the inside of a right high forehand strike (or vice a versa).  In order to get the hit in and move to the outside of the feeder's arm, than wrap for the snake disarm or trap. 

This helps in teaching the wrapping motion for the left hand and stresses the idea of hitting the person before you get the disarm.

FWIW I was shown the double action abaniko by another Modern Arnis player several years ago (1999) and I still can't figure it out, much less try and describe it or teach it.   :idunno:  Hey I think I have been spelling Abiniko wrong for years now.

Mark


----------

