# Emin Boztepe - Knife Defence & Weapons



## MJS (Aug 16, 2010)

Thought this was an interesting clip.

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## zepedawingchun (Aug 16, 2010)

What's so interesting? He's using text book Kali/Escrima/Wing Chun principles, theory, and concepts in his execution of stick and knife techniques. The principle of de-fanging the snake, as it is called, and striking whatever presents itself, a basic Escrima concept. The part where he talks about disarming the knife using the stick is basically taking a stab at Guru Dan Inosanto. But in theory, disarming is a sound idea. You just have to remember, you disarm the blade/stick/weapon if the opportunity presents itself. I have to say, I think if he did what he presented in front of a law enforcement officer, HE would be arrested as the aggressor, because he strikes the guy multiple times instead of just once, using equal force. Plus, I think anyone with a knife might think twice before trying to stab someone carrying a stick. I would.

On another note, I think the demonstration would have been better if he would have used a soft stick to show the speed, accuracy, and timing of his strikes. It would have looked much more impressive and he wouldn't have had to make the sound effects.


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## dungeonworks (Aug 16, 2010)

zepedawingchun said:


> What's so interesting? He's using text book Kali/Escrima/Wing Chun principles, theory, and concepts in his execution of stick and knife techniques. The principle of de-fanging the snake, as it is called, and striking whatever presents itself, a basic Escrima concept. The part where he talks about disarming the knife using the stick is basically taking a stab at Guru Dan Inosanto. But in theory, disarming is a sound idea. You just have to remember, you disarm the blade/stick/weapon if the opportunity presents itself. I have to say, I think if he did what he presented in front of a law enforcement officer, HE would be arrested as the aggressor, because he strikes the guy multiple times instead of just once, using equal force. Plus, I think anyone with a knife might think twice before trying to stab someone carrying a stick. I would.
> 
> On another note, I think the demonstration would have been better if he would have used a soft stick to show the speed, accuracy, and timing of his strikes. It would have looked much more impressive and he wouldn't have had to make the sound effects.



What's so interesting you ask???  Well to me, your second sentence in your post sums up what is so interesting.  I _*LOVE*_ the Fillipino stuff!!!:



			
				zepedawingchun said:
			
		

> ...He's using text book Kali/Escrima/Wing Chun  principles, theory, and concepts in his execution of stick and knife  techniques.



IMVHO, disarms are nice to know if they present themselves, but I would likely opt to keep defanging until I could brain the assailant sensless, armed or unarmed. You likely only get one, maybe two tries at best and either way you are likely to be sliced up real good.


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## geezer (Aug 17, 2010)

zepedawingchun said:


> On another note, I think the demonstration would have been better if he would have used a soft stick to show the speed, accuracy, and timing of his strikes. It would have looked much more impressive and he wouldn't have had to make the sound effects.



Aw c'mon, Zepeda, if he'd used a soft-stick we wouldn't have been able to hear him drumming on various portions of his partner's anatomy making those distinct soft flesh vs hard bone sounds. I liked that! 

As for the "sound-effects" he uses that "foom!" sound more like a boxer blowing out with each punch or a karateka's kiai. It helps with focus and attitude. Trust me, the way Emin and his Escrima teacher, GM Rene Latosa hit, the impact itself needs no "sound effect". I just saw both Rene and Emin in Las Vegas yesterday and they are the real deal. I don't know anybody who hits harder in such a short distance!


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## MJS (Aug 17, 2010)

zepedawingchun said:


> What's so interesting? He's using text book Kali/Escrima/Wing Chun principles, theory, and concepts in his execution of stick and knife techniques. The principle of de-fanging the snake, as it is called, and striking whatever presents itself, a basic Escrima concept. The part where he talks about disarming the knife using the stick is basically taking a stab at Guru Dan Inosanto. But in theory, disarming is a sound idea. You just have to remember, you disarm the blade/stick/weapon if the opportunity presents itself. I have to say, I think if he did what he presented in front of a law enforcement officer, HE would be arrested as the aggressor, because he strikes the guy multiple times instead of just once, using equal force. Plus, I think anyone with a knife might think twice before trying to stab someone carrying a stick. I would.
> 
> On another note, I think the demonstration would have been better if he would have used a soft stick to show the speed, accuracy, and timing of his strikes. It would have looked much more impressive and he wouldn't have had to make the sound effects.


 
Well, to be honest with you, I was attempting to actually start a thread that may lead to some productive discussion, rather than all of the learn by dvd and online class garbage that we've seen too much of lately. 

Anyways...I also posted it, because a) I'm not a WC student, and b) I've always been curious as to how a WC person goes about doing disarms against weapons.  I'm fully aware that Emin has a FMA background.  I've trained in the FMAs for quite a while now, and IMO, that is the place to go for weapons work.  Pretty much every art, AFAIK, has some sort of weapon defense, however, IMHO, if you want to expand on the idea, then you need to go to an art that specializes in weapons.  Now that I've been training in Arnis, my outlook has changed and I view my Kenpo weapons work in a different light.

As for the disarms...well, I feel that first and foremost, gaining control of the weapon is important.  From there, I'll work strikes while maintaining control.  At that point, if the disarm presents itself, sure go for it.  Of course, many times, when we see knife disarms, the attacker is, IMO, using a blade that isn't all that practical.  I mean, the average thug probably isnt going to be carrying a huge blade.  My current training blades that I use are of the pocket-knife size.  Do I train with a longer blade?  Sure, you never know what you may end up facing.


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## MJS (Aug 17, 2010)

dungeonworks said:


> . I _*LOVE*_ the Fillipino stuff!!!:


 
Me too. 





> IMVHO, disarms are nice to know if they present themselves, but I would likely opt to keep defanging until I could brain the assailant sensless, armed or unarmed. You likely only get one, maybe two tries at best and either way you are likely to be sliced up real good.


 
Exactly.


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## zepedawingchun (Aug 17, 2010)

I love the Filipino stuff too.  I've done Kali in the past and even do a bit of it in my class from time to time.  It's good exposure to Wing Chun students to see a weapons art that actually was used effectively in combat and that works.  It is a flow and sensitivity art similar to Wing Chun.

Geezer, I've seen Guru Dan Inosanto (and my Sifu too) on many an occasion spin a stick with speed, power and accuracy.   I'm not knocking Emin Sifu or Latosa Guru the least bit.   I'm sure they can wield a stick just as dangerously.  I just think it would have been more impressive to actually hit with a soft stick (it makes noise too) so that people can see the actual strikes and get a realistic idea of the speed, power, and accuracy of Emin Sifu's strikes.  Nothing impresses like actual contact, people can't deny it works.


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## MJS (Aug 17, 2010)

zepedawingchun said:


> I love the Filipino stuff too. I've done Kali in the past and even do a bit of it in my class from time to time. It's good exposure to Wing Chun students to see a weapons art that actually was used effectively in combat and that works. It is a flow and sensitivity art similar to Wing Chun.
> 
> Geezer, I've seen Guru Dan Inosanto (and my Sifu too) on many an occasion spin a stick with speed, power and accuracy. I'm not knocking Emin Sifu or Latosa Guru the least bit. I'm sure they can wield a stick just as dangerously. I just think it would have been more impressive to actually hit with a soft stick (it makes noise too) so that people can see the actual strikes and get a realistic idea of the speed, power, and accuracy of Emin Sifu's strikes. Nothing impresses like actual contact, people can't deny it works.


 
I agree with the use of a soft stick.  Its a nice change from just showing the strikes with a real stick, vs. really being able to whack the person.


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## mook jong man (Aug 17, 2010)

There are no disarms as far as I know in Wing Chun , a lot of the knife defences in our lineage use the Garn Sau as it has a large coverage area.

It also has the benefit of being able to trap the knife wielding arm very quickly once contact is made , all it takes from the Garn Sau position is for both hands to flip over and grab the arm with both hands.

Against a straight thrust around midsection height , step 45 degrees off the line of the attack with the body also orientated 45 degrees towards the attacker.

Deflect the knife thrust with your Garn Sau as you step , once contact is made with the arm then flip both your hands over to grab his arm in a death grip then attack his legs with approximately three rapid low kicks low heel kick , hook kick then finish with stamp kick to back of knee joint.


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## zepedawingchun (Aug 17, 2010)

MJS said:


> Anyways...I also posted it, because a) I'm not a WC student, and b) I've always been curious as to how a WC person goes about doing disarms against weapons. I'm fully aware that Emin has a FMA background. I've trained in the FMAs for quite a while now, and IMO, that is the place to go for weapons work. Pretty much every art, AFAIK, has some sort of weapon defense, however, IMHO, if you want to expand on the idea, then you need to go to an art that specializes in weapons. Now that I've been training in Arnis, my outlook has changed and I view my Kenpo weapons work in a different light.


 
I'm sure some WC lineages vary in the way they handle disarms.  The way I do it varies from time to time, depending on the weapon and how the strike, cut, or slash is being thrown.  Sometimes I parry and strike the attacker at the same time then gain control of the weapon hand and strip the weapon from their hand.  Or sometimes I just go straight for control of the weapon (like the Filipinos do) by smashing or striking the weapon hand.  If I have a blade (or Wing Chun Butterfly swords) in my hand, against my opponents blade, I will cut or slash their weapon hand at the same time I strike them (Biu do) with my free hand (or alive hand as the Filipinos may call it).  If I'm empty hand against a bladed weapon, I go for control of the weapon hand first, making sure to zone away from their alive hand.  So it is very similar to how Kali or Escrima does it. 



MJS said:


> As for the disarms...well, I feel that first and foremost, gaining control of the weapon is important. From there, I'll work strikes while maintaining control. At that point, if the disarm presents itself, sure go for it. Of course, many times, when we see knife disarms, the attacker is, IMO, using a blade that isn't all that practical. I mean, the average thug probably isnt going to be carrying a huge blade. My current training blades that I use are of the pocket-knife size. Do I train with a longer blade? Sure, you never know what you may end up facing.


 
Same idea here.  Even Wing Chun practitioners (or at least our line) understands you have to respect the weapon(s).  I love to get in close with my students only to pull out a training blade and watch how pick up on what they need to do correctly to handle the situation.  A bladed weapon changes your idea of what is good or bad in your self defense very quickly.


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