# Just curious...



## Touch Of Death (Mar 9, 2011)

If we are trying to cut teachers salaries, because, they don't have classes during the summer, and our children are falling behind the rest of the world in math and science, why not run school year round? We could hate the teachers less and teach our children more. Its a win win. Or we could quit requiring teaching degrees and get out of work actors to read a script. Thats where we are headed anyway.
Sean


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## granfire (Mar 9, 2011)

Well, the 3 month summers are a thing of the past in many areas as it is: While we in the south are off come the end of May, we are also back in Session around the first week of August. Up north, Summer starts later and goes to the traditional Labor Day....so far we are ony a couple of weeks over what they have lets say in Germany (six weeks there, but the over all vacation days are about the same)

I, as parent like it better to have a little more off time during spring and fall. Lets face it, having the kids out of school that long at one time is a strain on the family: you have to arrange for sitters etc...

Also, there have been studies that suggest that 3 months are just too long of a vacation for kids. They tend to forget a lot.

I also think that people tend to forget that there is more time involved into teaching than the time spend actually in school. Preparations, etc need to be factored in as well. 

Also: Budget cuts are not new. Around here there have been a lot of teachers supplementing classroom supplies with their own money. I think it really stinks that that is not aknowledged. (yes, I have a love hate relationship with teachers: A couple of my own I would still not say hello to, after over 20 years....but I found the people I am dealing with now as parent to be caring and involved! You know, like extra curricular activities, clubs they are sponsoring. I don't think they are embursed for that either)


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## Twin Fist (Mar 9, 2011)

fine by me, when the kids can READ like they are supposed to, maybe i will cut the teachers a little more slack, if that means classes all year round, s be it


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## Touch Of Death (Mar 9, 2011)

Twin Fist said:


> fine by me, when the kids can READ like they are supposed to, maybe i will cut the teachers a little more slack, if that means classes all year round, s be it


You see that is my point. I don't think republicans hate teachers; they hate the way it is set up. Lets change the system and treat teachers like the college educated people we require them to be.
Sean


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## granfire (Mar 9, 2011)

Man, you have no idea!

If you can spend the time, go to a school (elementary) in one of the poorer neighborhoods. Chances are they will welcome you as volunteer mentor for the youngons to sit and read with them. You will be SHOCKED to see what they deal with there on a daily basis. There is absolutely NO foundation there to build on. The parents are mostly not involved or interested (I kid you not, on a PTO meeting in a school with maybe 500 kids, K to 5th, maybe a dozen parents showed up) 

On top of that they have to produce test scores to keep the state off their backs, so they dedicate a LOT of time to teach the kids how to take those stupid tests. Seriously, about a semester is blown on that poop!

(and my favorite: Dibbles. Look it up. )

I am not sure how the pay is handled for summer school. That still happens, too.


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## Touch Of Death (Mar 9, 2011)

granfire said:


> Man, you have no idea!
> 
> If you can spend the time, go to a school (elementary) in one of the poorer neighborhoods. Chances are they will welcome you as volunteer mentor for the youngons to sit and read with them. You will be SHOCKED to see what they deal with there on a daily basis. There is absolutely NO foundation there to build on. The parents are mostly not involved or interested (I kid you not, on a PTO meeting in a school with maybe 500 kids, K to 5th, maybe a dozen parents showed up)
> 
> ...


I have an idea or two. LOL
Sean


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## billc (Mar 9, 2011)

Where are they trying to cut teacher salaries?


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## shesulsa (Mar 9, 2011)

They try to sell the public on the idea that teachers are getting paid 1. 50,000 per year (I haven't met a k-12 schoolteacher in public schools who makes that much) in salary alone but actually get paid about $40k per year more in benefits and health care.

What they DON'T tell you is that 40k is what human resource managers call "burden."  It's not just teachers or unions, my little babies.

Any job at any company - whether they pay benefits to employees or not - have a "burden" cost. It is the cost of insuring the employee for the company's purposes, accounting for their time and investiture, providing certain materials, paying taxes, etcetera.  Of course, if they do not contribute to any kind of payout benefit for the employee, the cost goes down.

Ask your local school when the school closes, officially, for the summer and opens for the fall.  Up here, the kids have eight weeks of summer vacation. That's two months, people.  The schools are open for three or four weeks (depending on grade level) after the years ends and open two weeks before the new year begins.  During this time, they have to organize work, fill out state and local paperwork, pack their materials, enter grades, reconcile discrepancies, wrap up assessments ... there is still much work for a teacher to do beyond the end of the school day and on weekends.  So up here, the teachers get ... oh, two weeks off in summertime. Less if they have to move their classroom or train.

I'm always amazed that everyone acts like nobody else is as busy or responsible as they are just because they don't walk in another person's moccasins.  

Point one finger in one direction ... you have three pointed right back at you.


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## Big Don (Mar 10, 2011)

Perhaps throwing good money, billions and billions of dollars of good money after bad isn't the way to fix anything.


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## seasoned (Mar 10, 2011)

Having been through this as a parent, I know first hand that parent involvement is crucial in the development of YOUR child. Teachers are not baby sitters, especially where teens are concerned. We have to be involved with our kids, because it is an investment in their future. Thanks to my wife, our two kids could read when they hit kindergarten. I know, you will say, "it is the teachers job", NOT. You, as a parent, had their attention for 5-6 years before they hit school. These are the *formative years*, get them away from the TV, monitor their time, like you cared, get some books in the house and read to them before they learn to say NO. Make sure they are involved with well grounded grown ups, because the saying goes, "caught more then taught" from the time they can walk. Give them some structure along with some play time, and above all be their guide, not their friend. 
Now, you have given the teachers something to work with. Now if they can't do their dam* job, now you can bitc* about it.
On the other hand, teachers are parents just like we are, some good, some bad. But the bottom line is INVOLVEMENT. The choice is simple, take the bull by the horns, because, by the time they hit 3rd grade, you have lost them to the system. Once they hit their teen years forget it, your a parent, someone from another world. Been there, done that,* NO REGRETS*.


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## 5-0 Kenpo (Mar 10, 2011)

shesulsa said:


> They try to sell the public on the idea that teachers are getting paid 1. 50,000 per year (I haven't met a k-12 schoolteacher in public schools who makes that much) in salary alone but actually get paid about $40k per year more in benefits and health care.




The median income of an elementary teacher in the Los Angeles school district is $67,200.  For a high school teacher, it's $72,658.

In a school district with a 50% dropout rate.

The minimal pay a teacher in the district for a "Teacher with Regular Credentials" will get is $45,637.

Now, I'm not saying that teachers don't deserve the income.  I just think that to say that they are "poor" is a stretch.


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## granfire (Mar 10, 2011)

5-0 Kenpo said:


> The median income of an elementary teacher in the Los Angeles school district is $67,200.  For a high school teacher, it's $72,658.
> 
> In a school district with a 50% dropout rate.
> 
> ...




I would have to check what the pay rate is around here, but I am guessing about half. I think in the LA area they need every penny of that money....just to not be poor...


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## shesulsa (Mar 10, 2011)

Big Don said:


> Perhaps throwing good money, billions and billions of dollars of good money after bad isn't the way to fix anything.



I guess it's all about what you define as bad.  Using bailout money to pay bonuses to CEOs who run companies into the ground? THAT is bad in my book. Paying a teacher a somewhat decent salary when they are essentially the second parents to children for a good number of years? Not *necessarily* bad ... unless their students keep failing.  THAT'S the problem for me, I don't see any teachers getting fired as a result of NCLB.



5-0 Kenpo said:


> The median income of an elementary teacher in the Los Angeles school district is $67,200.  For a high school teacher, it's $72,658.
> 
> In a school district with a 50% dropout rate.
> 
> ...



You're also looking at an economy in L.A. where you can't get an apartment for less than $1500 per month - and that's a studio. Cost of living there is abominable.




granfire said:


> I would have to check what the pay rate is around here, but I am guessing about half. I think in the LA area they need every penny of that money....just to not be poor...



Agreed.


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## Xue Sheng (Mar 10, 2011)

Teacher's salaries vary by state as does the education required to be a teacher.

In NYS they have to have a Masters degree if they want to stay in teaching. They can get the job with bachelors but without the masters they cannot keep it. I also believe they have to get that masters degree in 5 or 6 years or they are out of a job and during that time they are getting paid less than those with a master&#8217;s degree

Now if you want to compare teacher salaries compare it to people with comparable education in the state you are talking about. 


Now to all these wonderful salary comparisons I see on the news; Funny thing about statistics, the actual number they give you is absolutely meaningless without the data to back it up and the formulas used to get to that statistic.


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## shesulsa (Mar 10, 2011)

Xue Sheng said:


> Teacher's salaries vary by state as does the education required to be a teacher.
> 
> In NYS they have to have a Masters degree if they want to stay in teaching. They can get the job with bachelors but without the masters they cannot keep it. I also believe they have to get that masters degree in 5 or 6 years or they are out of a job and during that time they are getting paid less than those with a masters degree
> 
> ...



Unfortunately, this logic is lost on people who have been fearmongered into believing teachers are evil and corporations are good. Black and white, ya know?


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## Xue Sheng (Mar 10, 2011)

shesulsa said:


> Unfortunately, this logic is lost on people who have been fearmongered into believing teachers are evil and corporations are good. Black and white, ya know?


 
I use to work for a state office that was responsible for education and I have to tell you the costs of educations is not from the teachers&#8217; salaries it is more with the operation of the government office that oversees education. Incredibly high salaries for the commissioner and deputy commissioners and redundancies galore. Offices working at cross purposes office working on the same thing and entirely unaware that another office is also working on it. And those redundancies go to the deputy commissioners as well and there are some that are so underworked that you could replace 3 with 1 and still have time for a 2 hour lunch.



Folks you want to look at salaries to fix things I suggest you look to the elected officials and the people they appoint first. But don&#8217;t stop there, they all have expense accounts and in some cases multiple accounts. There was one that was given a house and a driver and had expense accounts for food, transportation, housing, entertainment, etc. and still got a salary of well over $100,000 a year&#8230; and he was not the highest paid. 

So teacher salaries, frankly I believe with all they have to do and all they are responsible I am not upset one little bit at what they are paid. However there are a lot in government that are very highly paid and no one seems to even be mentioning them at all&#8230;. Oh wait&#8230;now I remember why no one is talking about that &#8230;.their the ones complaining teachers make too much&#8230; You see that way they get us to look at something and someone other than them... and we go for it hook line and sinker


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## Twin Fist (Mar 10, 2011)

shesulsa said:


> Unfortunately, this logic is lost on people who have been fearmongered into believing teachers are evil and corporations are good. Black and white, ya know?




no one says TEACHERS are evil, teachers UNIONS however need to ****ing GO


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## granfire (Mar 10, 2011)

Twin Fist said:


> no one says TEACHERS are evil, teachers UNIONS however need to ****ing GO



Apparently they are direly needed at least in the state of Wisconsin....


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## Twin Fist (Mar 10, 2011)

the union was the problem, gran.


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## granfire (Mar 10, 2011)

Twin Fist said:


> the union was the problem, gran.




How can the union be the problem when they negotiated and agreed to the cuts?

How can somebody who agrees be the problem?

Right now it seems the Governor is the problem. Having a little temper tantrum, because he didn't get all the candy...


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## Twin Fist (Mar 10, 2011)

uh....no


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## 5-0 Kenpo (Mar 11, 2011)

shesulsa said:


> You're also looking at an economy in L.A. where you can't get an apartment for less than $1500 per month - and that's a studio. Cost of living there is abominable.


 
Absolutely untrue.  My mother-in-law just moved out of a one-bedroom apartment which was $800.  Up until two years ago, I rented a two-bedroom condo for $1,200.  I also purchased a home just outside of L.A. County (3,374 sq. ft., 5 bedroom, 3 full baths, office) for $2,500.  Although more expensive then where my ex-wife lives in Ohio, where she can rent a two-bedroom house for about $500, it isn't as high as you say.

However, the median income of a Los Angeles resident according to the U.S. Census Bureau (2008) was $55,428.  So the average teacher salary is almost 150% of the median income of a Los Angeles resident.

I don't doubt that their are regional differences in income amongst teachers.  I just wanted to provide some counterpoint to statement of "trying to sell the public on teachers making $50,000."

And, for clarification, I am not saying that teacher, in general, don't deserve to be well paid for their jobs.  



Xue Sheng said:


> Now to all these wonderful salary comparisons I see on the news; Funny thing about statistics, the actual number they give you is absolutely meaningless without the data to back it up and the formulas used to get to that statistic.


 
I'm not sure where you are going with this.  Salary comparisons would be a relatively simple thing to do in terms of dollar amounts.  If you are refering to trying to compare it to the cost of living in a given area, sure, it would be more difficult.  But the actual comparisons would be pretty straight forward.


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## WC_lun (Mar 11, 2011)

What I find interesting is that teachers are one of the biggest positive influences on children in thier entire lives.  In many cases teachers do more to help children prepare for the future than thier own parents.  However, instead of being treated as the heroes many of these men and women are, they are villified and told they make too much money or are lazy because they don't work the entire year through. These men and women have enough trust of the public for the public to entrust thier greatest treasure to them, but not enough trust to let them have collective bargaining when it comes to thier pay.  Ridiculous.


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## shesulsa (Mar 11, 2011)

5-0 Kenpo said:


> Absolutely untrue.  My mother-in-law just moved out of a one-bedroom apartment which was $800.  Up until two years ago, I rented a two-bedroom condo for $1,200.



Yeah? My sister-in-law can't find deals like this. Please private message me - she is on the verge of being homeless because of the economy and saturated market.  She is renting A ROOM for $800/month.



> I also purchased a home just outside of L.A. County (3,374 sq. ft., 5 bedroom, 3 full baths, office) for $2,500.



Either you mean $2.5M, $250K or your mortgage pmt is $2,500. If either the first or the latter, you've proven my point - real estate in California *IS* abominable. We sold my mother's home, in need of serious repair and update, back on '02 for $395K. That's in Fountain Valley near the Santa Ana and Garden Grove borders, just off of Harbor and Edinger.  Other homes on that block sold in the high $800k. They are three bedroom ranches.

If you meant $250k, that's still more than any of my houses are worth.  We pull in a little more than the average teacher's salary per year and if it weren't for rental income from our other mortgage-free rentals, we could not pay the mortgage on our residence on his salary alone.

Oh yeah, and he's UNION!!!!!  :fart:


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## shesulsa (Mar 11, 2011)

Unions ended sweatshop conditions and 18 hour work days.


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## 5-0 Kenpo (Mar 11, 2011)

shesulsa said:


> Yeah? My sister-in-law can't find deals like this. Please private message me - she is on the verge of being homeless because of the economy and saturated market.  She is renting A ROOM for $800/month.



Quite honestly, it's my wife who finds all this stuff.  I just go along for the ride.



> Either you mean $2.5M, $250K or your mortgage pmt is $2,500. If either the first or the latter, you've proven my point - real estate in California *IS* abominable. We sold my mother's home, in need of serious repair and update, back on '02 for $395K. That's in Fountain Valley near the Santa Ana and Garden Grove borders, just off of Harbor and Edinger.  Other homes on that block sold in the high $800k. They are three bedroom ranches.
> 
> If you meant $250k, that's still more than any of my houses are worth.  We pull in a little more than the average teacher's salary per year and if it weren't for rental income from our other mortgage-free rentals, we could not pay the mortgage on our residence on his salary alone.
> 
> Oh yeah, and he's UNION!!!!!  :fart:



I meant that my monthly mortgage payment is $2,500 a month for my house.  The initial mortgage amount was $356K, which isn't bad at all given the size of the house.  The backyard is a little small for my tastes, but what are ya gonna do.

Now, to be fair, I am a police sergeant and my wife is a deputy sheriff, so its not like we don't make decent money.  But since we are talking union stuff, in my department we just passed our contract, union negotiated, and took a 10% cut in pay and benefits, and that includes the Chief of Police.  And most of us did it without too much griping about it.  Why?  Because we knew we had to.  We did it to avoid layoffs. (Though to be honest, I would much rather have demoted some people and/or laid people off, but I'm mercenary like that.  Quite frankly, we do a lot more work then surrounding cities who make more money.)

In terms of schools, the school board in my city just had an emergency budget session open to the public last night.  They currently are running a $12 Million deficit, projected to be $32 Million next year, and $56 Million in the 2012 - 2013 fiscal year.  They are deciding to lay off about 194 people in order to help close the budget gap.  Of course, people are complaining, but what are they supposed to do (assuming that they are being financially competent with the money, which none of us believe is the case).

So, while I get that teachers are not the "bad guys", I just don't get why they should be exempt from the pains that others are having to deal with, including those in the private sector.  This argument is somewhat simplistic, I understand, if you consider issues of graft, corruption, etc., but that will always be the case in government entities, in my opinion.


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## Bruno@MT (Mar 11, 2011)

Twin Fist said:


> no one says TEACHERS are evil, teachers UNIONS however need to ****ing GO



*"These are the values inspiring those brave workers in Poland ... They remind us that where free unions and collective bargaining are forbidden, freedom is lost." --Ronald Reagan, Labor Day Address at Liberty State Park, 1980 *


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## Twin Fist (Mar 11, 2011)

shesulsa said:


> Unions ended sweatshop conditions and 18 hour work days.




100 years ago

for the LAST 100 years, all they do is buy elections and politicians and fleece thier members


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## Twin Fist (Mar 11, 2011)

Bruno@MT said:


> *"These are the values inspiring those brave workers in Poland ... They remind us that where free unions and collective bargaining are forbidden, freedom is lost." --Ronald Reagan, Labor Day Address at Liberty State Park, 1980 *




he wasnt referring to PUBLIC workers Bruno. WHich i am pretty sure you know.

he FIRED public workers that tried striking as i recall...


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## Twin Fist (Mar 11, 2011)

5-0 Kenpo said:


> *So, while I get that teachers are not the "bad guys", I just don't get why they should be exempt from the pains that others are having to deal with, including those in the private sector.  *This argument is somewhat simplistic, I understand, if you consider issues of graft, corruption, etc., but that will always be the case in government entities, in my opinion.



this right here is the entire issue.

that and YOU CANNOT SPEND WHAT YOU DO NOT HAVE.

if the state cannot afford this benefit plans, they have to go.


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## Bruno@MT (Mar 11, 2011)

Twin Fist said:


> he wasnt referring to PUBLIC workers Bruno. WHich i am pretty sure you know.
> 
> he FIRED public workers that tried striking as i recall...



Public workers don't deserve rights?
Imo they have every right to bargain collectively, just like people in the private sector.
Just because you don't like it does not mean that what they are doing is wrong.


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## granfire (Mar 11, 2011)

Twin Fist said:


> he wasnt referring to PUBLIC workers Bruno. WHich i am pretty sure you know.
> 
> he FIRED public workers that tried striking as i recall...



Eh, semantics....I suppose a worker in a stae owned steel plant or ship yard qualifies as public, no?

But it's kind of fun that he supports those he has not on his pay list...


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## Twin Fist (Mar 11, 2011)

cops, firefighter, air traffic controllers, teachers, etc

currently


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## shesulsa (Mar 11, 2011)

5-0 Kenpo said:


> I meant that my monthly mortgage payment is $2,500 a month for my house.  The initial mortgage amount was $356K, which isn't bad at all given the size of the house.  The backyard is a little small for my tastes, but what are ya gonna do.



Dude ... if you can afford $2500 per month for a mortgage payment ... you need to realize that the amount of your payment alone is likely what some very lucky people right now are clearing per month AFTER taxes.  Hell, I think with my husband's job (when he's working, and he's in layoff mode right now) we *might* get that net.  So by blue collar (or, apparently to the folks who protect people who make more than $250k per year, RICH :barf: )  YOU are RICHER.  I guess you think this means your market is not abominable.  I lived in LA. I left it. I've visited So. Cal. a few times in the last 15 years.  The real estate market is NOT AFFORDABLE for anyone to buy anything if they make less than $85k per year ... unless they want to live in the barrios.



> Now, to be fair, I am a police sergeant and my wife is a deputy sheriff, so its not like we don't make decent money.  But since we are talking union stuff, in my department we just passed our contract, union negotiated, and took a 10% cut in pay and benefits, and that includes the Chief of Police.  And most of us did it without too much griping about it.  Why?  Because we knew we had to.  We did it to avoid layoffs. (Though to be honest, I would much rather have demoted some people and/or laid people off, but I'm mercenary like that.  Quite frankly, we do a lot more work then surrounding cities who make more money.)


LEOs and firefighters here took a cut in pay so that we didn't have to lose any workers.  Guess what?  They cut staffing anyway about a year later.  We have people getting into injury accidents who don't even get a police response anymore.  And they're going to cut more.  

Are people really so blind that they can't see what's going on here?



> In terms of schools, the school board in my city just had an emergency budget session open to the public last night.  They currently are running a $12 Million deficit, projected to be $32 Million next year, and $56 Million in the 2012 - 2013 fiscal year.  They are deciding to lay off about 194 people in order to help close the budget gap.  Of course, people are complaining, but what are they supposed to do (assuming that they are being financially competent with the money, which none of us believe is the case).
> 
> So, while I get that teachers are not the "bad guys", I just don't get why they should be exempt from the pains that others are having to deal with, including those in the private sector.  This argument is somewhat simplistic, I understand, if you consider issues of graft, corruption, etc., but that will always be the case in government entities, in my opinion.


No no no no no.

The superintendent in our school district is one of the highest paid public service administrators in the country. He makes more than $150k per year and gets bonuses.

Bonuses.

When they're overspending.

I'm sorry.

If I overspend ... I DON'T GET A ****ING BONUS!!!!

And neither should they.


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## Xue Sheng (Mar 11, 2011)

5-0 Kenpo said:


> I'm not sure where you are going with this. Salary comparisons would be a relatively simple thing to do in terms of dollar amounts. If you are refering to trying to compare it to the cost of living in a given area, sure, it would be more difficult. But the actual comparisons would be pretty straight forward.


 

This says you don&#8217;t understand statistics

Let&#8217;s make this simple, 

I get the mean of all salaries in the state and I compare it to the median of all teacher salaries in the state.

Or I get the Median of all gas station attendants in the state and I compare it to the median of all teacher salaries in the state

Both give you wonderful numbers to compare but are those comparisons worth anything.

You need the data behind them and the formulas used to reach that date for it to mean anything at all

Now not all the following formulas apply but without knowing which one was used or that data behind that you get a really great number that can be easily manipulated to fit your needs but in reality is pretty much meaningless, but it looks really cool and gets people to follow what you say withuot thought because... I mean...wow... the guy said "the statsitics show"


&#9632;Population mean = &#956; = ( &#931; Xi ) / N
&#9632;Population standard deviation = &#963; = sqrt [ &#931; ( Xi - &#956; )2 / N ]
&#9632;Population variance = &#963;2 = &#931; ( Xi - &#956; )2 / N 
&#9632;Variance of population proportion = &#963;P2 = PQ / n
&#9632;Standardized score = Z = (X - &#956 / &#963; 
&#9632;Population correlation coefficient = &#961; = [ 1 / N ] * &#931; { [ (Xi - &#956;X) / &#963;x ] * [ (Yi - &#956;Y) / &#963;y ] }
&#9632;Sample mean = x = ( &#931; xi ) / n
&#9632;Sample standard deviation = s = sqrt [ &#931; ( xi - x )2 / ( n - 1 ) ]
&#9632;Sample variance = s2 = &#931; ( xi - x )2 / ( n - 1 )
&#9632;Variance of sample proportion = sp2 = pq / (n - 1)
&#9632;Pooled sample proportion = p = (p1 * n1 + p2 * n2) / (n1 + n2)
&#9632;Pooled sample standard deviation = sp = sqrt [ (n1 - 1) * s12 + (n2 - 1) * s22 ] / (n1 + n2 - 2) ]
&#9632;Sample correlation coefficient = r = [ 1 / (n - 1) ] * &#931; { [ (xi - x) / sx ] * [ (yi - y) / sy ] }
Correlation
&#9632;Pearson product-moment correlation = r = &#931; (xy) / sqrt [ ( &#931; x2 ) * ( &#931; y2 ) ]
&#9632;Linear correlation (sample data) = r = [ 1 / (n - 1) ] * &#931; { [ (xi - x) / sx ] * [ (yi - y) / sy ] }
&#9632;Linear correlation (population data) = &#961; = [ 1 / N ] * &#931; { [ (Xi - &#956;X) / &#963;x ] * [ (Yi - &#956;Y) / &#963;y ] }
Simple Linear Regression
&#9632;Simple linear regression line: &#375; = b0 + b1x
&#9632;Regression coefficient = b1 = &#931; [ (xi - x) (yi - y) ] / &#931; [ (xi - x)2]
&#9632;Regression slope intercept = b0 = y - b1 * x
&#9632;Regression coefficient = b1 = r * (sy / sx)
&#9632;Standard error of regression slope = sb1 = sqrt [ &#931;(yi - &#375;i)2 / (n - 2) ] / sqrt [ &#931;(xi - x)2 ]
Counting
&#9632;n factorial: n! = n * (n-1) * (n - 2) * . . . * 3 * 2 * 1. By convention, 0! = 1.
&#9632;Permutations of n things, taken r at a time: nCr = n! / (n - r)!
&#9632;Combinations of n things, taken r at a time: nCr = n! / r!(n - r)! = nPr / r!
Probability
&#9632;Rule of addition: P(A &#8746; B) = P(A) + P(B) - P(A &#8745; B)
&#9632;Rule of multiplication: P(A &#8745; B) = P(A) P(B|A)
&#9632;Rule of subtraction: P(A') = 1 - P(A)
&#9632;Expected value of X = E(X) = &#956;x = &#931; [ xi * P(xi) ]
&#9632;Variance of X = Var(X) = &#963;2 = &#931; [ xi - E(x) ]2 * P(xi) = &#931; [ xi - &#956;x ]2 * P(xi)
&#9632;Normal random variable = z-score = z = (X - &#956/&#963;
&#9632;Chi-square statistic = &#935;2 = [ ( n - 1 ) * s2 ] / &#963;2
&#9632;f statistic = f = [ s12/&#963;12 ] / [ s22/&#963;22 ]
&#9632;Expected value of sum of random variables = E(X + Y) = E(X) + E(Y)
&#9632;Expected value of difference between random variables = E(X - Y) = E(X) - E(Y)
&#9632;Variance of the sum of independent random variables = Var(X + Y) = Var(X) + Var(Y)
&#9632;Variance of the difference between independent random variables = Var(X - Y) = E(X) + E(Y)
Sampling Distributions
&#9632;Mean of sampling distribution of the mean = &#956;x = &#956;
&#9632;Mean of sampling distribution of the proportion = &#956;p = P
&#9632;Standard deviation of proportion = &#963;p = sqrt[ P * (1 - P)/n ] = sqrt( PQ / n )
&#9632;Standard deviation of the mean = &#963;x = &#963;/sqrt(n)
&#9632;Standard deviation of difference of sample means = &#963;d = sqrt[ (&#963;12 / n1) + (&#963;22 / n2) ]
&#9632;Standard deviation of difference of sample proportions = &#963;d = sqrt{ [P1(1 - P1) / n1] + [P2(1 - P2) / n2] }
Standard Error
&#9632;Standard error of proportion = SEp = sp = sqrt[ p * (1 - p)/n ] = sqrt( pq / n )
&#9632;Standard error of difference for proportions = SEp = sp = sqrt{ p * ( 1 - p ) * [ (1/n1) + (1/n2) ] }
&#9632;Standard error of the mean = SEx = sx = s/sqrt(n)
&#9632;Standard error of difference of sample means = SEd = sd = sqrt[ (s12 / n1) + (s22 / n2) ]
&#9632;Standard error of difference of paired sample means = SEd = sd = { sqrt [ (&#931;(di - d)2 / (n - 1) ] } / sqrt(n)
&#9632;Pooled sample standard error = spooled = sqrt [ (n1 - 1) * s12 + (n2 - 1) * s22 ] / (n1 + n2 - 2) ]
&#9632;Standard error of difference of sample proportions = sd = sqrt{ [p1(1 - p1) / n1] + [p2(1 - p2) / n2] }
Discrete Probability Distributions
&#9632;Binomial formula: P(X = x) = b(x; n, P) = nCx * Px * (1 - P)n - x = nCx * Px * Qn - x
&#9632;Mean of binomial distribution = &#956;x = n * P
&#9632;Variance of binomial distribution = &#963;x2 = n * P * ( 1 - P )
&#9632;Negative Binomial formula: P(X = x) = b*(x; r, P) = x-1Cr-1 * Pr * (1 - P)x - r
&#9632;Mean of negative binomial distribution = &#956;x = rQ / P
&#9632;Variance of negative binomial distribution = &#963;x2 = r * Q / P2 
&#9632;Geometric formula: P(X = x) = g(x; P) = P * Qx - 1
&#9632;Mean of geometric distribution = &#956;x = Q / P
&#9632;Variance of geometric distribution = &#963;x2 = Q / P2 
&#9632;Hypergeometric formula: P(X = x) = h(x; N, n, k) = [ kCx ] [ N-kCn-x ] / [ NCn ]
&#9632;Mean of hypergeometric distribution = &#956;x = n * k / N
&#9632;Variance of hypergeometric distribution = &#963;x2 = n * k * ( N - k ) * ( N - n ) / [ N2 * ( N - 1 ) ]
&#9632;Poisson formula: P(x; &#956 = (e-&#956 (&#956;x) / x!
&#9632;Mean of Poisson distribution = &#956;x = &#956;
&#9632;Variance of Poisson distribution = &#963;x2 = &#956;
&#9632;Multinomial formula: P = [ n! / ( n1! * n2! * ... nk! ) ] * ( p1n1 * p2n2 * . . . * pknk )
&#9632;Mean of a linear transformation = E(Y) = Y = aX + b.
&#9632;Variance of a linear transformation = Var(Y) = a2 * Var(X).
&#9632;Standardized score = z = (x - &#956;x) / &#963;x.
&#9632;t-score = t = (x - &#956;x) / [ s/sqrt(n) ].
Estimation
&#9632;Confidence interval: Sample statistic + Critical value * Standard error of statistic 
&#9632;Margin of error = (Critical value) * (Standard deviation of statistic)
&#9632;Margin of error = (Critical value) * (Standard error of statistic)
Hypothesis Testing
&#9632;Standardized test statistic = (Statistic - Parameter) / (Standard deviation of statistic)
&#9632;One-sample z-test for proportions: z-score = z = (p - P0) / sqrt( p * q / n )
&#9632;Two-sample z-test for proportions: z-score = z = z = [ (p1 - p2) - d ] / SE
&#9632;One-sample t-test for means: t-score = t = (x - &#956 / SE
&#9632;Two-sample t-test for means: t-score = t = [ (x1 - x2) - d ] / SE
&#9632;Matched-sample t-test for means: t-score = t = [ (x1 - x2) - D ] / SE = (d - D) / SE
&#9632;Chi-square test statistic = &#935;2 = &#931;[ (Observed - Expected)2 / Expected ]
&#9632;One-sample t-test: DF = n - 1
&#9632;Two-sample t-test: DF = (s12/n1 + s22/n2)2 / { [ (s12 / n1)2 / (n1 - 1) ] + [ (s22 / n2)2 / (n2 - 1) ] }
&#9632;Two-sample t-test, pooled standard error: DF = n1 + n2 - 2
&#9632;Simple linear regression, test slope: DF = n - 2
&#9632;Chi-square goodness of fit test: DF = k - 1
&#9632;Chi-square test for homogeneity: DF = (r - 1) * (c - 1)
&#9632;Chi-square test for independence: DF = (r - 1) * (c - 1)
&#9632;Mean (simple random sampling): n = { z2 * &#963;2 * [ N / (N - 1) ] } / { ME2 + [ z2 * &#963;2 / (N - 1) ] }
&#9632;Proportion (simple random sampling): n = [ ( z2 * p * q ) + ME2 ] / [ ME2 + z2 * p * q / N ]
&#9632;Proportionate stratified sampling: nh = ( Nh / N ) * n
&#9632;Neyman allocation (stratified sampling): nh = n * ( Nh * &#963;h ) / [ &#931; ( Ni * &#963;i ) ]
&#9632;Optimum allocation (stratified sampling):
nh = n * [ ( Nh * &#963;h ) / sqrt( ch ) ] / [ &#931; ( Ni * &#963;i ) / sqrt( ci ) ]

Now do you know where i'm going with this?


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## crushing (Mar 11, 2011)

Touch Of Death said:


> If we are trying to cut teachers salaries, because, they don't have classes during the summer, and our children are falling behind the rest of the world in math and science, why not run school year round? We could hate the teachers less and teach our children more. Its a win win. Or we could quit requiring teaching degrees and get out of work actors to read a script. Thats where we are headed anyway.
> Sean


 
Have you seen some of these children that go school?  A three month break may be necessary for the mental welfare of teachers!

Besides, the Chamber of Commerce in many states would never go for not having the extended business supporting summer vacation time.  Here, in Michigan, a law was passed in 2005 requiring schools to start after the labor day break to encourage more intrastate tourism.

Also, more people hate teachers than you know.  In fact, anyone that doesn't think public school teachers should be paid at least $500,000 a year hates teachers.


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## Twin Fist (Mar 11, 2011)

if the educational stats were getting BETTER i dont think anyone would be complaining... but again, you cannot spend what you do not have


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## granfire (Mar 11, 2011)

Twin Fist said:


> if the educational stats were getting BETTER i dont think anyone would be complaining... but again, you cannot spend what you do not have



you don't want the stats to get better, but the education....

Stats only means they have been gramming for the SATs...and believe me, that happens a LOT!


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## Blade96 (Mar 12, 2011)

Don't believe in school year round. First more is not always better. If the quality sucks how much are they learning really? second, let kids be kids. They'll have to know about work and work a lot when they get older.


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## granfire (Mar 12, 2011)

Blade96 said:


> Don't believe in school year round. First more is not always better. If the quality sucks how much are they learning really? second, let kids be kids. They'll have to know about work and work a lot when they get older.




I prefer the breaks to be spread out a bit more. 3 month is along time...
(though around here we are down to 2...not too bad, a week in spring, a week in fall...)


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## Ken Morgan (Mar 13, 2011)

The Finns are top in almost all categories, yet they start school at 7 years old.

In the District I was in, in NY State, there were no recesses, no breaks at all, accept for 30 minutes of lunch. Drill and kill. The Board Im in, in Ontario has a morning recess, a lunch recess and an afternoon recess, yet Canada constantly beats the US in test scores

After two months of summer break, kids lose 40% of what they learned, but that doesnt have to happen. See there is this thing called parents, they spend 80  85% of the time in a given year with their kids, a novel ideahow about get the parents to actually give a damn about their kids, instead of trying to let teachers and school raise them? Make the kids read over the summer, make them do math, pay attention to them and hold the kids responsible for completing the work.


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## Blade96 (Mar 13, 2011)

Ken Morgan said:


> The Finns are top in almost all categories, yet they start school at 7 years old.
> 
> In the District I was in, in NY State, there were no recesses, no breaks at all, accept for 30 minutes of lunch. Drill and kill. The Board Im in, in Ontario has a morning recess, a lunch recess and an afternoon recess, yet Canada constantly beats the US in test scores
> 
> After two months of summer break, kids lose 40% of what they learned, but that doesnt have to happen. See there is this thing called parents, they spend 80  85% of the time in a given year with their kids, a novel ideahow about get the parents to actually give a damn about their kids, instead of trying to let teachers and school raise them? Make the kids read over the summer, make them do math, pay attention to them and hold the kids responsible for completing the work.



I'd like to ADD, pun intended  to your post here that these lessons need not seem like summer school either. Parents can play games with their kids where they are using their maths.  Or reading things, (such as Scrabble)  or even buying things at the store. its using maths.  So that kids are having fun during their holidays but reviewing their lessons at the same time.


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## granfire (Mar 13, 2011)

Ken Morgan said:


> The Finns are top in almost all categories, yet they start school at 7 years old.
> 
> In the District I was in, in NY State, there were no recesses, no breaks at all, accept for 30 minutes of lunch. Drill and kill. The Board Im in, in Ontario has a morning recess, a lunch recess and an afternoon recess, yet Canada constantly beats the US in test scores
> 
> After two months of summer break, kids lose 40% of what they learned, but that doesnt have to happen. See there is this thing called parents, they spend 80  85% of the time in a given year with their kids, a novel ideahow about get the parents to actually give a damn about their kids, instead of trying to let teachers and school raise them? Make the kids read over the summer, make them do math, pay attention to them and hold the kids responsible for completing the work.





Blade96 said:


> I'd like to ADD, pun intended  to your post here that these lessons need not seem like summer school either. Parents can play games with their kids where they are using their maths.  Or reading things, (such as Scrabble)  or even buying things at the store. its using maths.  So that kids are having fun during their holidays but reviewing their lessons at the same time.




One point tho you forget: The average family needs 2 incomes and the average worker only gets 2 weeks of paid vacation a year....

(BTW, I think the 3 month summers are a hold over from when the kids were needed at the house/farm to do chores and help support the family...)


I think the Finn system is very different from US schools (and most of Europe for that matter) not alone that they start later...


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## Blade96 (Mar 13, 2011)

My mother's a teacher.....I havent forgotten.


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## Cryozombie (Mar 13, 2011)

shesulsa said:


> Unions ended sweatshop conditions and 18 hour work days.


 
True that. Groups like the IWW and their kith and kin made working conditons in America Safer and more tolerable.

But these are not the same Unions that harassed and threatend moviegoers at my local theater, then went in and slashed the seats and broke the toilets because the theater had a choice: Close, or stop using Union projectionists.

Those are also not the same Union workesthat threaten me and my roommate when we got to prewire and install Televisions, Home Automation and Sound systems in downtown chicago because we are doing Labor on their site and don't belong to a union. (even tho there is no union that covers us, and most of these guys cannot do what we are doing) 

Nor were they the same Unions that almost got me kicked out of a Con one time, and caused me to forfiet my pay for the events I ran that year BEACUSE I PLUGGED IN A "BOOM BOX" TO A WALL OUTLET AND DIDN'T HUNT DOWN ONE OF THE UNION ELECTRITIONS ON SITE TO PLUG THE DAMN THING IN FOR ME.  (and no, there was no regulation in the rules that said I had to do that)

Now, don't get me wrong, Unions have their place, when speaking for workers and maintaining a postive work atmosphere. But Companies should not be required to use them, Employees should not be forced to join them... and they certainly should not be political entities.


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## granfire (Mar 13, 2011)

Did anybody see the piece by Katy Couric today?

The remote hijacker was home so I didn't get but bits and pieces...


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