# Hopefully my closing Yang style/Tai Chi rant



## Xue Sheng (Jul 6, 2006)

*Warning Rant and or babbling ahead*





I have no idea where to post this nor do I have any idea if anyone cares, but here it is just the same

I have come to the conclusion, although I still feel that Yang style is dying as a martial art as are most Tai Chi styles, that the problem with Yang style is not Yang style it is me. 

My apologies to the Traditional Yang people I have upset with my occasional rants. :asian:

As I have said a few times Yang was not my first choice Chen was and as a Chen master once told me, &#8220;once you do Chen you will only want to do Chen, nothing else will do&#8221;. I don&#8217;t know if that is true, but I will say I like Zhaobao but then again it is very similar to Chen. But since it was supposedly designed by a member of the Chen family I am not surprised. 

And after much thinking, checking, reading, question asking, ranting and just plain babbling, even a very very short lived venture into MMA (believe it or not), I have a fairly good idea of the direction my training is going to go in, although I am not ready to actually say what that is beyond Qigong with an old Taoist, but it will very likely stay CMA. However I am not sure if Tai Chi will be part of that training at all. Of course it will have an effect on anything I train, I simply trained it to long for it not to, but official studying of Tai Chi may or may not be part of any future training. If any Tai Chi is involved at all it will be Chen or Zhaobao, if I can find the teachers for it. 

However I am fairly certain traditional Yang style will not part of it. I can&#8217;t get myself to do it at all. I can do 24 form three or four times a day and work on 48 form, they look rather traditional these days though, but I cannot get myself to do any of the Yang forms I have been doing for 12 years. I can work on the Chen forms I use to train, I started working on the Zhaobao form I saw in Beijing (9 sounds above the ground) which lead me to buying a DVD of that form while in Beijing (the beginning of the Zhaobao form is Chen, no doubt about it) and I have even started doing Sil Lim Tau from my short lived Wing Chun training years ago, but I cannot get my self to start any of the traditional Yang forms. And I have to say I am training harder now than I was before when I was training with my Yang Style Sifu, and I can honestly say this for the first time in years, 

DAMN My legs hurt!!! Those Chen stances are low.  

As for the Xingyi I started again, I have lost the interest in it that I had all those years ago. Although the training was very good and very real, it was too far to travel once or twice a week and I just am not interested in it anymore, at least not like I was 10 or so years ago. And once again, I can&#8217;t get myself to do it, or I should say I can&#8217;t get myself to do it regularly. And since I do not feel that my lack of training is fair to the teacher or the rest of the class I stopped.  Also the Cheng Manching style, although I do like it and the teacher was very good, it is at the same location as the Xingyi and it is not only to far but too early and conflicts with my work schedule. 

So this is how it pans out for me for now, Qigong with a real life Qigong master and home training until I am ready to go to the Art I think I should be in and I have a pretty good idea as to what that is and it is most definitely not Yang Style Tai Chi. If Tai Chi is part of it at all it will be secondary and Chen or Zhaobao. Also the only game in town for either is my first Sifu who is definitely pure Wushu (Graduate of a Physical education university in China with a master&#8217;s degree). And I have been given the e-mail address of a Zhaobao master (by one of his students in China) that comes to NYC about once a year, this is about 300 Miles south of me. Chen Zhenglei also comes to my area twice a year so there is another possibility, but he really does not like my first Sifu, but that's another story. 

As for the Sanda/Sanshou I trained briefly, that may continue but at a later date neither I nor the teacher has the time right now however trees do still fear me because of it. 

Thanks&#8230; :asian: 

Rant finished&#8230;

Not to worry, I am sure I will rant again someday... Knowing me, possibly later today


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## Kensai (Jul 6, 2006)

Hey Xue Sheng,

Sounds like you've reached a real cross roads in your training, and perhaps in your attitudes to martial arts in general? Sometimes, it pays to take a step back, maybe taking a break will help you find some clarity? Just a thought. Go a while with having nothing to do with MA, and when you instinctively feel ready, you will know. 

Or, you could just go with what your instincts are telling you now....? Whatever you end up doing, I wish you prosperity and the wisdom to know when your decision is reached... :asian:


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## Xue Sheng (Jul 9, 2006)

Kensai said:
			
		

> Hey Xue Sheng,
> 
> Sounds like you've reached a real cross roads in your training, and perhaps in your attitudes to martial arts in general? Sometimes, it pays to take a step back, maybe taking a break will help you find some clarity? Just a thought. Go a while with having nothing to do with MA, and when you instinctively feel ready, you will know.
> 
> Or, you could just go with what your instincts are telling you now....? Whatever you end up doing, I wish you prosperity and the wisdom to know when your decision is reached... :asian:


 
Thanks, that's pretty much the plan.

I have a pretty clear plan to follow right now actually I just am not ready to talk about it yet beyond the official Qigong training has begun. And the rest I am doing at home... for now. 

I left Traditional Yang Tai Chi a couple of months ago, after 12 years, and it has helped with a multitude of decisions as those apply to martial arts. And a few things got a lot more clear during the process too.

It was apparently much hard to make the leap than it was to complain about it.

Once again, sorry to those I ticked off.


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## TaiChiTJ (Jul 9, 2006)

Xue Sheng, are you anywhere near Uttica, New York?


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## Xue Sheng (Jul 10, 2006)

TaiChiTJ said:
			
		

> Xue Sheng, are you anywhere near Uttica, New York?


 
About 2 hours away from Utica


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## TaiChiTJ (Jul 10, 2006)

This instructor has studied through the Yek Sing Ong school of tai chi, originating in New Zealand. 

*John Garrett
*1712 Whitesboro Street
Utica, NY, USA 13502
TEL: (315) 732-6130


While I don't know him personally, the school has a high standard. 

The school traces back to Huang Sheng Shyan, the white crane master who became keenly interested in Cheng Man Ching's push hand skills. 

Here is a little history on that: 
http://www.singongtaichi.com/yso.html

I can't say enough about a series of relaxing exercises that were developed by Huang, and further consolidated by Master Ong. As their website says: 

The first thing you will learn when you start Sing Ong Tai Chi is a series of tai chi exercises that don't need any special equipment and can be performed in a space of just a few square metres. These exercises will immediately start improving your fitness, coordination and agility. 
Our exercises are excellent for improving health because they are easy to learn and remember, and they are very soothing and enjoyable to perform. 

Much, much more could be said about these exercises and their effect on the body.

So, check it out if you'd like.


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## Xue Sheng (Jul 10, 2006)

TaiChiTJ said:
			
		

> This instructor has studied through the Yek Sing Ong school of tai chi, originating in New Zealand.
> 
> *John Garrett*
> 1712 Whitesboro Street
> ...


 
Thank you, I will think about it.


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## pstarr (Jul 11, 2006)

Whatever you do, don't give up!  You'll ultimately find what you've been looking for...


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## clfsean (Jul 11, 2006)

Ren Guang yi is somewhere up in that neck of the woods too. Chen Taiji from Chen Xiao wang.


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## Xue Sheng (Jul 11, 2006)

pstarr said:
			
		

> Whatever you do, don't give up! You'll ultimately find what you've been looking for...


 
I could start quoting Robert Frost, but then I would just be getting silly, so I won't.

I'm not giving up, just reorienting and taking a minute to look around. 

I have been in this way to long to stop.

Thanks.



			
				clfsean said:
			
		

> Ren Guang yi is somewhere up in that neck of the woods too. Chen Taiji from Chen Xiao wang.


 
 Thanks


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## Laoshi77 (Jul 13, 2006)

'Xue Sheng', I guess it depends on who's teaching what, in respect to Yang or Chen, all aspects to the teaching have similarities. There are of course the same movements in all forms of Taiqiquan, it depends on the individual; you can practice the techniques/stances low or higher. Different means towards the same end, as some like to put it. 

Yang itself has splintered into other forms and philosophies in respect to fighting, _Ru Yi _for example, where the fighting aspect is most important. The practising of forms can become too great that one can lose the understanding of what is knowledge.

Best wishes.


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## Xue Sheng (Jul 13, 2006)

Laoshi77 said:
			
		

> 'Xue Sheng', I guess it depends on who's teaching what, in respect to Yang or Chen, all aspects to the teaching have similarities. There are of course the same movements in all forms of Taiqiquan,


 
Well, yes and no. The names are the same but the forms can be very different. Chen is similar to Zhaobao in appearance but not as similar to Yang. The underlying philosophy however is very similar. 



			
				Laoshi77 said:
			
		

> it depends on the individual; you can pactice the techniques/stances low or higher. Different means towards the same end, as some like to put it. .


 
And yes I agree; Yang can be practiced low, medium or high, as can Chen, but Chen is by form lower than Yang. As my Yang style teacher said Chen is to low and a member of the Chen family said "Yang is to high Also there is Yang for health, exercise, dance, flexibility, martial arts, etc. and it is all dependant on what the practitioner wants and what the teacher teaches. I however want the whole thing and there are very few that know it and or are willing to teach it, particularly close to me.



			
				Laoshi77 said:
			
		

> Yang itself has splintered into other forms and philosophies in respect to fighting, Ru Yi for example, where the fighting aspect is most important. The practising of forms can become too great that one can lose the understanding of what is knowledge.
> 
> Best wishes.


 
And yes Yang has splintered but, per the Yang family, those are no longer Yang Style. Yang style per Yang family is the form, which comes from Yang Chengfu, which is or has been taught by the Yang family. Which makes me wonder how they feel about the style that came from Yang Binhao and Yang Shouhou, both pre Chengfu, this is the style that Yang Jwing-ming teaches.  

More recently Yang has also splintered into Cheng Manching style and Tung Style as well. Actually my most recent Sifu was a student of Tung but as far as he was concerned he taught Yang style and a couple of additional forms from Tung (or at least he use to). If I wanted to travel 2 hours I could study with a Student of Chengfu, but I simply cannot get there at the time and locations he teaches Tai Chi. I will be studying Qigong with this person however. 

I do not mean to upset anyone with Yang style and the fact is, after much thought, I have done it way to long to stop doing it now. And after a break of a couple of months I find I can practice the forms again. However I still like Chen and Zhaobao better but there are no competent teachers near enough to me to be able to get there. And I have other plans as to what CMA to focus on. 

I will continue Yang style and if I find a teacher I think can teach me something or if I move closer to the aforementioned teacher of Yang, I will train with that teacher. Otherwise I will practice it on my own. 

And what is Ru Yi? I have never heard of it.

Note; Zhaobao does something in push hands that I have seen no other tai chi do.  But I have not seen all Tai Chi styles practice push hands. Zhaobao practices push hands on both 2 legs and 1 leg.


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## Xue Sheng (Jul 20, 2006)

The rest of the story. 

After much contemplation and staring at point in space 6 feet in front of me I have decided the following. 

I am going to continue training Yang Taijiquan, I am however going to be training mostly on my own for now (I have been at it for 12 years) plus the occasional workshop here and there if I believe they will help. 

I hope to find a Sifu in Beijing the next time I am there (actually I plan to locate one before I go, with the help of my family there, that will make things a lot easier). As I said, somewhere on MT, I have been doing it way to long to quit and or change now. Also much of my problem with Yang Style recently stems form anger with my most recent Sifu over his change from real traditional to fluff and some of the current politics within Yang style. And I may return to teaching Yang style, but that is still not 100% certain, if you want to know more about that go to the following post and my last entry that starts with "Decision made:"
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=34976&page=2 

However Yang will no longer be my main focus for martial arts training. If all goes right I will be returning to Wing Chun in a few months, which I trained briefly several years ago. There is a very good teacher very close to me and after doing some reading I realize there is a lot more to it than I originally believed, and I find this very interesting. It also very likely has something to do with the Wing Chun teacher as well. Also my arrogance about tai chi has gone away (thankfully) since I have gotten older, the arrogance my most recent Tai Chi Sifu still has by the way. Being proud of your life long art (he&#8217;s been at it for around 50 years) is one thing, calling it superior to all others and referring to others as inferior or lesser is not.

I am also training Qigong with a legitimate teacher. He is a real live Taoist from China that has been doing this stuff for about 80 years and he looks about 60. He also teaches Yang tai chi, but in a different location and I cannot get there regularly for that at this time and he insists on people showing up every week. And with everything else right now I simply cannot make it there.

And as if that plus life demands are not enough, there is always the possibility of returning to Sanda/Sanshou (police version) if time allows both the teacher and me. But this is VERY traditional training that amounts to a meeting with Sifu a couple of times a month, me going off to train what I have been told/shown to train and then going back to show him how I have done. If I do well I learn more, if I do badly, I go train some more. Thus the reason I hit a so many trees (not anger just training), but at least trees still fear me. 

Thanks for the responses
Xue Sheng




*Warning Rant and or babbling done* :asian:


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## Kensai (Jul 20, 2006)

I see you found your way... :asian:  Glad to hear that mate.


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## Laoshi77 (Aug 14, 2006)

'Xue Sheng'...

..._Ru Yi _Taiqiquan was a private tradition inherited by Shi Ming; who was a very famous master in Beijing. His teachings were based on pure fighting principles and defined in his book 'Mind Over Matter: Higher Martial Arts'. Shi Ming was a board member of the China Martial Arts Society and the Beijing Martial Arts Society. Shi Ming was featured on a programme with Bill Moyers in 1993 called 'Healing and the Mind' where he demonstrated some, quite literally, unbelievable feats. Unfortunately, he has since passed on and consequently his teachings are now not so popular; as is the tendency in Beijing, things are kept quiet and people fade away from the public realm. 

My teacher spent several years learning from Shi Ming in Beijing, on my visit to Beijing after Shi Ming's passing we studied with one of his top students; a very powerful practitioner of the like I have never seen!

Best wishes!


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## Xue Sheng (Aug 14, 2006)

Laoshi77 said:
			
		

> 'Xue Sheng'...
> 
> ..._Ru Yi _Taiqiquan was a private tradition inherited by Shi Ming; who was a very famous master in Beijing. His teachings were based on pure fighting principles and defined in his book 'Mind Over Matter: Higher Martial Arts'. Shi Ming was a board member of the China Martial Arts Society and the Beijing Martial Arts Society. Shi Ming was featured on a programme with Bill Moyers in 1993 called 'Healing and the Mind' where he demonstrated some, quite literally, unbelievable feats. Unfortunately, he has since passed on and consequently his teachings are now not so popular; as is the tendency in Beijing, things are kept quiet and people fade away from the public realm.
> 
> ...


 
Thanks


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