# The Round Kick: Straight leg/ or bent knee more powerful?



## ThuNder_FoOt (Oct 27, 2003)

Between the straight knee round kick and the chambered knee round kick, which do you feel is the stronger kick? and why? Personally, I always thought the straight knee was a little more powerful but the chambered knee was a little bit faster. After doing some experimentation, and re-re-reading my Bruce Lee literature, I'm starting to thinking differently. What are some of your views?

:asian: 

THuNdeR_FoOT
.::FOOT CLAN::.


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## Touch Of Death (Oct 27, 2003)

Using the knee, in my opinion, increases power.


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## Zepp (Oct 27, 2003)

I don't think it works at all if you don't chamber first.  Thunder, maybe I'm misunderstanding what you mean.  Could you explain how you would throw a roundhouse/round kick without first bending your knee?


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## Eldritch Knight (Oct 27, 2003)

Roundkick is supposed to be a fast, medium strength kick that you use to wear down your opponent. Use the straight knee for range and try to build up speed that way. The idea is to pummel your opponent with roundkicks and then finish them with something stronger, like a hop front or a sidekick. Just watch the Olympic guys and see what they do.


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## Touch Of Death (Oct 28, 2003)

A round kick is what ever I want it to be. We call what you described a pulldrag kick. It is not more powerfull than a fully functional round house kick. That being said why is a jumping front kick more of a coup degrass than a non jumping well performed front kick off the back leg?


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## the_kicking_fiend (Oct 28, 2003)

I do know what you mean by keeping the leg straight.  I don;t think it's very good for your knee though, it looks like too much stress on the joint.  The straight leg roundhouse is bigger and much more obvious too, so not so great really.

It's easier to throw your hips all the way round in a full spin by using the straight leg, but this is how kickboxers kick, not tae kwon do'ists!  We don't spin because its damn dangerous to keep showing your opponent your back everytime you throw a kick.

d


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## Zepp (Oct 28, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Eldritch Knight _
> *Just watch the Olympic guys and see what they do. *



 I consider the kind of Tae Kwon Do seen in most Olympic style competitions an example of what _not_ to do.


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## RanaHarmamelda (Oct 28, 2003)

If, by straight leg, you are talking of the kick that is brought around by hip motion, rather than the bent knee snap kick, then, yes, straight leg is more powerful. In my experience, at least.

Eh. Matter of taste. *shrug*


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## Zepp (Oct 29, 2003)

> _Originally posted by RanaHarmamelda _
> *If, by straight leg, you are talking of the kick that is brought around by hip motion, rather than the bent knee snap kick, then, yes, straight leg is more powerful. In my experience, at least.
> *



Shouldn't either kick be brought around by hip motion?


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## Touch Of Death (Oct 29, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Zepp _
> *Shouldn't either kick be brought around by hip motion? *


 One would think.


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## chaosomega (Oct 29, 2003)

Haven't you people ever watch a muay thai fight? They do straight legged roundhouses all the time!


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## Touch Of Death (Oct 29, 2003)

> _Originally posted by chaosomega _
> *Haven't you people ever watch a muay thai fight? They do straight legged roundhouses all the time! *


I'm going to be candid with you and tell you how I understand kicking. It might not be Tae kwon do or kenpo for that matter it is just how I understand them and incidently it would be the reason I'm right if you accept my premis. The kick you are talking about is very powerfull, but I feel lead leg pull drags or just lifts and let the hips do the rest kicking is mearly a shortened version of either doing the same kick off the back leg or quick switching with the lead leg. Both these methods allow you to do the knee with the hip turn you describe, thus these are more powerfull and its all the same kick really. I just thought of a third. Picking your knee up high enough to do the kick as a stomp with hip turn is also more powerfull. As far as Muay Thai matches your kick is faster than all three so thats the one you better use, but don't try to say its more powerfull. If you know any thing about Kenpo evading the storm uses the rear leg and hip turn kick.
Sean


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## chaosomega (Oct 30, 2003)

I dunno... Maybe if you got hit with a thai roundhouse in the thigh or ribs you'd change your mind.    

And I don't mean some fellow who thinks he can do one... I mean an actual Thai fighter.

Anyway, whatever suits you best. Me personally... I do both straight legged and chambered kicks. I have my reasons for both...


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## Touch Of Death (Oct 30, 2003)

You keep talking like I doubt the existence of the kick or somthing, and that I don't understand the reasons for the applications of each. Let me put it in a language you might understand. Lets use that same hypothetical "real" Muay thai fighter. That guy can generate more power with a chambered kick than a straight leg. And besides the leg isn't truly straight out of the fighting stance now is it? I think we have a partial chambering on our hands 
Sean


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## RanaHarmamelda (Oct 30, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Zepp _
> *Shouldn't either kick be brought around by hip motion? *



Heh -- yah, but there's a little difference -- at least the way I learned it. One, you bring your knee into the 'cocked' position, then snap it out while rotating your hips. The other, you avoid the 'cocked' position, and bring your leg from the floor, leading with your hips.

Quess I didn't make that quite clear...I feel the second is the more powerful of the two.


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## Damian Mavis (Oct 30, 2003)

Ok maybe I should put my 2 cents in, I'm a Muay Thai fighter AND a 4th degree Tae Kwon Do instructor so I know the realities of both worlds pretty well.  One little misconception: the Thai roundkick is not fully straight, the knee is slightly bent.  The Thai roundkick generates it's power from a fierce snapping of the hip and due to the attacking tool (the shin) it has more concussive power and damage dealing potential, but it's power (if you're doing good technique with both types of roundkick) is about the same as chambered leg.  I've been doing the chambered leg kick for 13 years and can really pound it out but I can get the same power out of my Thai kick, only if you get hit with the Thai kick it will hurt more because like I said, the attacking tool is just more destructive.

Also, not on the issue of power but I only use chambered knee round kick to the head, if I hit the bones on a persons leg or his elbows by his torso with my instep I can break my foot or at the least disable my foot.  (which I have done many times) I much prefer to hit with the shin as it has helped me prevent injury and makes more sense in a street defence situation too unless you have really good sturdy protective shoes or boots.  

Hope that helps a little?

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD


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## ThuNder_FoOt (Oct 31, 2003)

I ALSO practice both Muay Thai AND Taekwondo. Practicing both these arts is what brought about the curiosity and the reason why I posted this thread. Because I have been throwing both versions of the round kick, I was just wondering what some others thought about the subject 

In terms of the straight leg kick, I'm referring to the Thai kick versus the chambered round kick. The knee isn't completely straight on the thai kick, it's slightly bent.  And the rotation of the kick comes from the hip. But in the chambered round kick, rotation also comes form the hip along with the extension of the knee. 

One misconception about the chambered knee kick, there IS hip rotation when the kick is executed properly. If you apply physics to the equation, I would believe the chambered kick would have more destructive power do to the added extension speed of the knee, on top of the rotation speed of the hip. Whereas the Thai kick does have little knee extension, but its very minimal... atleast the way I've been taught.

 :asian: :asian: 

THuNdeR_FoOT
.::FOOT_CLAN::.


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## Zepp (Oct 31, 2003)

> _Originally posted by ThuNder_FoOt _
> *In terms of the straight leg kick, I'm referring to the Thai kick versus the chambered round kick. The knee isn't completely straight on the thai kick, it's slightly bent.  And the rotation of the kick comes from the hip. *



Ok, that sounds right.  I knew you couldn't throw a roundhouse of any kind without bending the knee at least a little.


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## Damian Mavis (Oct 31, 2003)

The one thing that makes me wonder is added mass.  The Thai kick being relatively straight has more weight to it when thrown whereas the chambered knee kick is lighter and then at the moment of impact becomes fully extended.  Does the fact that the Thai kick is "heavier" from the moment it's launched to the moment it connects not have anything to do with increased power?  Maybe the extra snap of the chambered knee kick cancels out the added mass of the Thai kick to make them relatively similar in power outputs?  I'm just guessing, I truly don't know why the 2 kicks if done correctly feel so similar but have different effects based on their attacking tools.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD


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## Zepp (Oct 31, 2003)

Since we're on the topic, here's an analogy I use to explain the mechanics behind a roundhouse, and to differentiate the Thai-roundhouse from the kind where you hit with the foot.

For the TKD/Karate type, your leg is like a flail.  Your hip like the handle, where the power is generated and the extent of the swing is determined.  Your foot is like the studded ball at the end- it's responsible for making the impact and doing the damage (regardless of whether you're hitting with the instep or the ball of your foot).  The part of your leg in between the hip and the foot is like the chain or rope that connects the ball to the handle.  For maximum effect, the chain needs to be slack until the last moment before impact.

Following that line of thought, I would describe that Thai-roundhouse as being more like a club or baseball bat.  It doesn't need any more slack during the swing besides what occurs naturally.

How does that sound to you guys?


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## ThuNder_FoOt (Oct 31, 2003)

Its sounds relatively correct to me. However, with the Thai kick, while it is powerful I could relate it which the analogy you used, more easily than the chambered counter-part. When you execute a proper Thai kick, the hip operates like the handle of a whip or chain as you described. The shin would be the ball of the whip or chain... kinda acting like an anchor of sorts. I believe a chain would be more appropriate for the chambered kick though and a whip for the thai kick. With the chain being broken down into individual links, each pivot point could represent a link of a longer chain. But i supposed the analogy can work for both kicks... since they're soooo similar. Its kind of like separating naval oranges from mandarin oranges.... lol.

Damian brings up a good point of the thai kick feeling heavier than the chambered kick. Personally, I think the reason for the Thai Kick feeling heavier is due to the thought process of kick through the target... and using the impact as a rebound to recoil the kick. Whereas the chambered kick  "usually" is only taught in terms of kicking into the target instead of through the target. Sometimes I catch myself doing this as well on occasion. Its just a matter of commitment to the kick (in my eyes). Once the kicker knows that the kick will be re-chambered back to the original position, maybe subconsiously the kicker withholds a little bit of power to use for recoil. Just a theory of mine, but I think its pretty valid... when I am consciously aware this it seems as though I can fix it on a small scale. Another possibility may be conscious lack of movement. The kicker may want to keep his/her leg in position to fire another continous kick. For example, repeat round kicks from flamingo stance, or continous side kicks. With that, the kicker would purposely NOT kick through the target. 

I was reading through my "Tao of JKD" book for millionth time, and Bruce references this as well. Now, I understand that Bruce is not the "know it all" of martial arts for those whom may try to bash this statement, but I highly respect his teachings and learnings, and value it as a great learning tool. Tell me what you guys think.

:asian: :asian: 

THuNdeR_FoOT
.::FOOT_CLAN::.


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