# Wing Chun internal training



## futsaowingchun (Sep 23, 2014)




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## Eric_H (Sep 26, 2014)

futsaowingchun said:


>



Certainly different than what I've learned from HFY's Ying Lik structural ruleset. I'll try the breathing coordination you suggest next time I do Siu Nim Tao and see how it feels. Thanks for sharing.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Sep 26, 2014)

Many Taiji guys also use several breaths for one move to achieve their slowness. IMO, that kind of training is wrong. Each and ever single move should be equal to either one inhale or one exhale. You should use your inhale and exhale to train your elastic feeling. The 3 breaths move back and 3 breaths move forward training method not only violent the "combat" principle (because a punch with 3 breaths is just too slow to have any "combat" value), it's also not good for "health" (because your breathing doesn't coordinate with your body movement). 

 As far as how fast or how slow should you train your form, if you train your form when you just 

 - finish your 3 miles running, your breathing will be fast, your form speed should be fast. 
 - wake up in the morning, your breathing is slow, your form speed should slow.

 You breathing speed should control your form speed.

 In "combat", you may want to throw 4 punches in 1 second. When you do hat, you should exhale, 1/5 of your lung capacity in each punch. After you have thrown 4 punches, you will still have 1/5 amount of air left in your lung (in case anything go wrong). You should never leave your lung to be completely empty. 

 In other words, it's 

 - OK to speed up and coordinate your singe move with partial breath. 
 - not OK to slow down and coordinate your single move with multiple breaths.


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## futsaowingchun (Sep 26, 2014)

Eric_H said:


> Certainly different than what I've learned from HFY's Ying Lik structural ruleset. I'll try the breathing coordination you suggest next time I do Siu Nim Tao and see how it feels. Thanks for sharing.



Glad to share..Good luck.


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## futsaowingchun (Sep 26, 2014)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> Many Taiji guys also use several breaths for one move to achieve their slowness. IMO, that kind of training is wrong. Each and ever single move should be equal to either one inhale or one exhale. You should use your inhale and exhale to train your elastic feeling. The 3 breaths move back and 3 breaths move forward training method not only violent the "combat" principle (because a punch with 3 breaths is just too slow to have any "combat" value), it's also not good for "health" (because your breathing doesn't coordinate with your body movement).
> 
> As far as how fast or how slow should you train your form, if you train your form when you just
> 
> ...



The SLT done  slow counting the breaths is like meditation  in motion,it has nothing to do with combat application. The idea of counting breaths is a very old technique.


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## yak sao (Sep 28, 2014)

Sometimes it's good to be reminded of certain things. I appreciate you sharing your insights.


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## Danny T (Sep 28, 2014)

In SLT/SNT in the part of the 'form' where the movements are done slowly with multiple breathes what is one training/practicing?
One is learning to 'feel' and learning to mentally express 'intent'.
Feel any tension and what is causing it; feel the changes on one's center of gravity as the movements are performed and as one inhales and exhales; feel what muscles are engaging and how to release as much of it as possible without losing the proper structures. Visualization - seeing the moves and the positions and mentally expressing what is happening as you do them. SLT is not about fighting or combat it is learning about yourself.


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## futsaowingchun (Sep 28, 2014)

Danny T said:


> In SLT/SNT in the part of the 'form' where the movements are done slowly with multiple breathes what is one training/practicing?
> One is learning to 'feel' and learning to mentally express 'intent'.
> Feel any tension and what is causing it; feel the changes on one's center of gravity as the movements are performed and as one inhales and exhales; feel what muscles are engaging and how to release as much of it as possible without losing the proper structures. Visualization - seeing the moves and the positions and mentally expressing what is happening as you do them. SLT is not about fighting or combat it is learning about yourself.



very good i like your post


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## Eric_H (Sep 30, 2014)

Eric_H said:


> Certainly different than what I've learned from HFY's Ying Lik structural ruleset. I'll try the breathing coordination you suggest next time I do Siu Nim Tao and see how it feels. Thanks for sharing.



Tried it and it didn't really jive with HFY's Dip Gwat energy expression. I think I can see what it's aimed at building, but it doesn't coordinate the body/breath in a way that works for me/the framework I'm working in.


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## kung fu fighter (Sep 30, 2014)

Eric_H said:


> Tried it and it didn't really jive with HFY's Dip Gwat energy expression.



Is the Dip Gwat energy expression in HFY similar to the Dip Gwat Gung excercises in southern Praying mantis?


"Dip gwut gung, meaning rib bone power, is one of the Southern Praying Mantis Kung fu training skills used throughout its forms. This action is performed by the opening and closing of the rib cage, thus strengthening the rib bones and the ligaments that join them to the sternum and spine. The bones of the entire body are very much alive and just like the muscles they can be strengthened with certain exercises such as "dip gwut gung" (i.e. special "gung lik" training skills).
The ribs protect our internal organs and the ribcage bones are flexible and move as the body moves. Training methods such as the "Saam hay gen" (three air power drills) and "dip gwut gung" work on this movement through rigorous drills that build up the muscle tissue and ligaments around the ribs so the midsection and rib cage can withstand heavy blows.
Since it is reasonable to assume that every punch or kick cannot be blocked or prevented, training to absorb punches is crucial. There is a verse that states. "Dip Gwut Gung, Gen Tung Gen," meaning that the development of the shock-like power gen comes from the practice of the "dip gwut gung". These two forces combine to produce awesome striking power."


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## Eric_H (Oct 1, 2014)

kung fu fighter said:


> Is the Dip Gwat energy expression in HFY similar to the Dip Gwat Gung excercises in southern Praying mantis?



Honestly don't know man, never trained Chu Ga Tonglong or had friends who did.


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## kung fu fighter (Oct 1, 2014)

Eric_H said:


> Honestly don't know man, never trained Chu Ga Tonglong or had friends who did.



What's the purpose of training "Dip gwut energy expression" in HFY? 

Is it performed by the opening and closing of the rib cage, thus strengthening the rib bones and the ligaments that join them to the sternum and spine, as well as to build up the muscle tissue and ligaments around the ribs so the midsection and rib cage can withstand heavy blows?


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## Eric_H (Oct 2, 2014)

It's more about integrating the 13 joints as one unit. There is rib bone compression training (which I've heard mentioned is a foundation for iron shirt, which is what you describe above) but it's still constrained by the WC centerline, not the "shrimp back" structure you see in southern mantis styles.


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