# Parkour?



## Lobo (Apr 20, 2006)

Some call it modern day ninjitsu. any thoughts?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrc_hb9q-fM#GU5U2spHI_4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWgDm_0oB_Q
*Oh, and thats my profile too. So, please vote.


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## Cryozombie (Apr 20, 2006)

Some would be wrong.


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## Sam (Apr 20, 2006)

there have been a couple threads on this.

It looks cool, but I wouldnt really group it with martial arts. I would turn around and fight rather than waste that much energy running. If they follow you off of a jump they obviously aren't gonna stop. If they are that determined, turn around and give em something to run for. I'd rather get hurt in a fight where I could hurt the attacker as well rather than twist my ankle running and be at his un-injured mercy. (Okay, so obviously a broken ankle wouldnt [and shouldnt] impair my ability to kill him, but you catch my drift.)


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## Grey Eyed Bandit (Apr 21, 2006)

Whenever people I meet in training express an unusually large amount of interest in acrobatics, shoten no jutsu etc, I extend my arm and ask them to perform jigoku dori on me. To this day, no one has ever been able to do that.


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## MartialIntent (Apr 21, 2006)

Personally I think Parkour and Free Running could provide the future template for "new" martial arts were anyone *clever* enough to take the key skills and adapt them. Alas, innovators and those with the insight are few nowadays and we're happy sticking to the mold. Oh well, maybe there's someone out there who has the werewithal.

Respects!


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## Don Roley (Apr 21, 2006)

MartialIntent said:
			
		

> Alas, innovators and those with the insight are few nowadays and we're happy sticking to the mold. Oh well, maybe there's someone out there who has the werewithal.



When such people try these new things out in real situations where failure means a trip to the emrgency ward or worse and comes back to tell us it worked, I will listen to them.

Until then, when dealing with my life and the life of all I hold important, I tend to be very conservative.


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## MartialIntent (Apr 21, 2006)

Don Roley said:
			
		

> When such people try these new things out in real situations where failure means a trip to the emrgency ward or worse and comes back to tell us it worked, I will listen to them.
> 
> Until then, when dealing with my life and the life of all I hold important, I tend to be very conservative.


Good point - then maybe what's needed is for one of these Parkour afficianados to develop their art into a martial form rather than the other way about. I've seen these kids leaping from concrete wall to concrete wall - they practise for keeps and play through some seriously big risks! I think a parkour / MA hybrid would be a potent proposition - if nothing else, at least for making a clean getaway, zoom!

Respects!


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## bydand (Apr 21, 2006)

Technopunk said:
			
		

> Some would be wrong.



Simple and to the point.  Couldn't agree more!  

Why does everybody have to slap the ninjutsu name on anything out of the ordinary?  If anybody could answer that question for me I would LOVE to hear it.  Why not "Modern Gladiators" instead, probably more true anyway, I mean if there were a couple of Lions and some really big guys with broad swords trying to either eat me for lunch or carve me into deli meat, I would be running up walls and jumping off tall buildings also.


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## Monadnock (Apr 21, 2006)

bydand said:
			
		

> Simple and to the point. Couldn't agree more!
> 
> Why does everybody have to slap the ninjutsu name on anything out of the ordinary? If anybody could answer that question for me I would LOVE to hear it. Why not "Modern Gladiators" instead, probably more true anyway, I mean if there were a couple of Lions and some really big guys with broad swords trying to either eat me for lunch or carve me into deli meat, I would be running up walls and jumping off tall buildings also.


 
Looks a little like the fantastical notion of running up walls like in Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon. 

My take, based on the fact that every time I see one of these videos it is overlayed with Rap music and usually depicts a bunch of teeenagers running through urban areas, is that it looks more like a method of training for running from the cops.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Apr 21, 2006)

Technopunk said:
			
		

> Some would be wrong.


 
How true!

Brian R. VanCise
www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com


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## Henderson (Apr 21, 2006)

Lobo said:
			
		

> Some call it modern day ninjitsu. any thoughts?http://


Yes.........:whip:


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## Bigshadow (Apr 21, 2006)

Technopunk said:
			
		

> Some would be wrong.



HAHAHA... One would agree!


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## Bigshadow (Apr 21, 2006)

Monadnock said:
			
		

> it looks more like a method of training for running from the cops.


You know it really didn't occur to me that way, but now that you mention it.... hmmmmm....

I have always thought of it as an X-Sport, like the x-games, where they have the bike and skateboard competitions.  To me it just seems to be gymnastics on steroids.   

However, I wish I had that kind of dexterity.


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## Don Roley (Apr 21, 2006)

Monadnock said:
			
		

> My take, based on the fact that every time I see one of these videos it is overlayed with Rap music and usually depicts a bunch of teeenagers running through urban areas, is that it looks more like a method of training for running from the cops.



Good observation. Kind of wonder what kind of image these folks are trying to send about themselves.

For some strange reason I am reminded of a guy I went through training at Fort Benning with. He was a good guy, but liked to do things like making a big show of wiping the fingerprints off his rifle whenever he got off the range. At one point we were being shown how to go over a wall in MOUT training. He pipes up, "oh, just like you do when running from the cops."

Now why the hell did that memory pop back into me head while watching these guys do their thing?:idunno: 

Oh yeah, and he got dropped for pushups for that.


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## ginshun (Apr 24, 2006)

I think that before judging parkour, you guys should go to http://www.parkour.com/index.html  and read about what the philosophy behind it is.  At least the philosophy that its founders intended.

Parkour is not about jumping off buildings and doing flips, it is about moving though your environment smoothly and fluidly.

Basing your opinion of the sport on a couple of You Tube videos is a little bit like somebody else judging their opinion of Ninjutsu off the American Ninja movies.

You guys don't know anything about it, but yet are roundabout accusing people that do it of being criminals.  With all the demand for respect of "true" ninjutsu that I hear around hear, I would expect more from this forum and its leaders.


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## Bigshadow (Apr 24, 2006)

ginshun said:
			
		

> You guys don't know anything about it, but yet are roundabout accusing people that do it of being criminals.


I think they were just having a little fun with it, nothing serious, especially not worth getting all bent out of shape about it.


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## Grey Eyed Bandit (Apr 24, 2006)

We had a couple of traceurs at our place during the fall of 2004 - from what I've gathered they're all back to doing capoeira, taido and possibly sanshou.


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## bydand (Apr 24, 2006)

Chill, nobody said the people who do Parkour are criminals, just said it *looked* like they were practicing running from the cops.  Shoot, even I who tend to be a bit on the cynical side didn't make the jump to them actually BEING criminals.   I'm not even knocking the practice, darn, I wish I could move like that myself!!!!  I think it is amazing myself.  The first time I saw a short clip about it, I had to play it several times to see how they pulled off such realistic special effects, then realised they were actually making those jumps and landings.  I made the infrence that it isn't "modern Ninjutsu" at all, and it ISN'T; that I will stand behind 100 %.  What it is, is something new, why should somebody slap a label on it that isn't right.  I would think the people who practice it should also be royally ticked-off about calling it that.  It is unique and stands on its own merits, to label it something it is not is an injustice to those who started it.

My .02, take it for what it is - my opinion.


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## eyebeams (Apr 24, 2006)

Lobo said:
			
		

> Some call it modern day ninjitsu. any thoughts?
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrc_hb9q-fM#GU5U2spHI_4
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWgDm_0oB_Q
> *Oh, and thats my profile too. So, please vote.



It's not a martial art per se, but it is very useful.


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## Grey Eyed Bandit (Apr 25, 2006)

It's obvious that Parkour incorporates elements that can also be found in shoten no jutsu.


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## ginshun (Apr 25, 2006)

sorry about getting a little bent out of shape, but it really is best to learn at least something about an activity before making judgements of it.

I don't even really do it much myself, deffinately not to the level that those guys do.  I just like jumping off and threw and around things as opposed to just jogging, and I like the philosophy behind it as presented by its founders.


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## Shinkengata (Apr 26, 2006)

I've done Parkour off and on, even though i had no idea what it was at the time, since i was a kid. I've found it greatly enhances your overall movement capabilities, and who can argue that THAT is not a benefit to training? We all speak about how taijutsu has helped us from time-to-time in non-confrontational matters, i.e. everyday life situations. Parkour can definitely do that as well. Parkour also develops levels of strength, flexibility, and endurance in certain muscles that other activities simply cannot. So i say again, how would that NOT benefit training?

Parkour doesn't have to be the elaborate, SpiderMan-like aerial stunts like you see in the videos. It can be as simple as hopping up on a park bench and running across it and hopping off. If you can "sorta" do it, then get to where you can do it with great ease and consistency. Parkour is about breaking boundaries.

Just my thoughts on it. Hope it helps.


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## Cryozombie (Apr 26, 2006)

Shinkengata said:
			
		

> Parkour doesn't have to be the elaborate, SpiderMan-like aerial stunts like you see in the videos. It can be as simple as hopping up on a park bench and running across it and hopping off. If you can "sorta" do it, then get to where you can do it with great ease and consistency. Parkour is about breaking boundaries.
> 
> Just my thoughts on it. Hope it helps.


 
My only issue with that (as I don&#8217;t disagree with what you are saying) is that most of the &#8220;instructional&#8221; videos you see on line are for spiderman wall climbing, gap leaping, and fence jumping type stunts...  I think it would be much better to start small, like the bench thing you suggested and work your way up.  Pity there isn&#8217;t a gym type environment to learn this more places&#8230; an instructor, with classes starting out with stretching and strength training, and working up to techniques&#8230; THAT would be cool.


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## Don Roley (Apr 26, 2006)

Technopunk said:
			
		

> My only issue with that (as I dont disagree with what you are saying) is that most of the instructional videos you see on line are for spiderman wall climbing, gap leaping, and fence jumping type stunts...



I would think that may be the way certain people try to market it. In that way, it is like ninjutsu. There may be others that package their instructions in the way shinkengata says and are just shoved aside by the greater attention good marketing provides. In that respect it would be a lot like the situation in the Bujinkan. I am interested in how Shinkengata describes it, not the videos I have seen. But then again, I go against the grain in many ways.


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## Cryozombie (Apr 26, 2006)

Don Roley said:
			
		

> I am interested in how Shinkengata describes it, not the videos I have seen. But then again, I go against the grain in many ways.


 
No, thats pretty much how I feel about it as well...


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## eyebeams (Apr 27, 2006)

Don Roley said:
			
		

> I would think that may be the way certain people try to market it. In that way, it is like ninjutsu. There may be others that package their instructions in the way shinkengata says and are just shoved aside by the greater attention good marketing provides. In that respect it would be a lot like the situation in the Bujinkan. I am interested in how Shinkengata describes it, not the videos I have seen. But then again, I go against the grain in many ways.



Marketed? Parkour is almost entirely noncommercial -- far less commercial than ninpo in virtually every significant fashion, in fact. There are a few demo teams and t-shirts, but if there are "instructional videos" for sale, it's the first I've heard of it. Every PK technique can be learned for free, with combination of online tutorials and practice with an area PK group. The only videos you can really buy are like skateboarding videos: They're entertaining demos from the handful of high level practitioners in the world.  These people (and they probably number under a hundred worldwide) are the only people who actually get paid for anything to do with parkour. At most, you need a good pair of shoes and some climbing gloves.


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## eyebeams (Apr 27, 2006)

Shinkengata said:
			
		

> I've done Parkour off and on, even though i had no idea what it was at the time, since i was a kid. I've found it greatly enhances your overall movement capabilities, and who can argue that THAT is not a benefit to training? We all speak about how taijutsu has helped us from time-to-time in non-confrontational matters, i.e. everyday life situations. Parkour can definitely do that as well. Parkour also develops levels of strength, flexibility, and endurance in certain muscles that other activities simply cannot. So i say again, how would that NOT benefit training?
> 
> Parkour doesn't have to be the elaborate, SpiderMan-like aerial stunts like you see in the videos. It can be as simple as hopping up on a park bench and running across it and hopping off. If you can "sorta" do it, then get to where you can do it with great ease and consistency. Parkour is about breaking boundaries.
> 
> Just my thoughts on it. Hope it helps.



Well yeah. There's currently a split between PK purists who believe in negotiating obstacles in an efficient, flowing fashion and folks who like to combine it with tricking. I personally prefer the former.

Plus, it's worth noting that virtually every run you see on video has been scouted out and tested for safety ahead of time. Improvised runs are pretty rare and a lot less extreme than what you'll see on some of the videos. You spend a lot of time drilling individual moves on the site before trying a full, flowing run. Some people are hardcore enough to practice gymnastics with crash pads in the off season, too, but most are more casual.


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## Don Roley (Jun 28, 2006)

eyebeams said:
			
		

> Marketed? Parkour is almost entirely noncommercial --



I was talking about how some people market themselves and their image. Marketing does not have to be about money. It can be about image and how they want people in the world to see them.

I take it that Parkour can't really be learned unless from a real group over a long period of time. I doubt that there is a group here in Japan- which is a shame. Recent events have kind of made me want to do some of the basic stuff that site you listed do. The front roll I think they stole from ninpo. :ultracool 

But that original clip where the guy is jumping down the outside of a building from about the seventh floor is a case of marketing yourself as a bunch of bad dudes instead of being smart and keeping it at a safe elevation. THAT I do not want to do. Too much trouble explaining to the wife why I have to spend the next few months in a body cast.

What kind of training options are there for people? Nothing short term?


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## DWeidman (Jun 28, 2006)

Don Roley said:
			
		

> What kind of training options are there for people? Nothing short term?


 
From http://www.streetstunts.co.uk/3run/tips_for_Beginning.htm

Tips for beginning 

Before beginning in Parkour/Martial-arts or Street-stunts, there are a few things you need to consider.

1. Are you in good enough heath to begin straight away?
2. Do you have a safe place to practice, eg/ gym, sandpit or wood chippings?
3. Do you have people to practice with and to help spot you on difficult moves?
4. Watch other media, videos/pictures to get a good idea on whats what.

Its always good if you have all these things to help you. We began by watching videos/films of others and then tried to understand what was involved to do the move successfully. Then Practiced in a safe place, with friends there helping. We all began flips in a sandpit, and we started parkour around the schools, and housing estates.

The basics of street-stunts and parkour comes down to your physical and mental state. Alike any physical activity you need to be in good health or you will struggle with moving your body in the ways that these activities demand. So if needed, start by doing basic health training, jogging, push ups, pull ups and sit ups etc, because you will be using your arms a lot to pull yourself up onto walls and for all the different styles of vaults, And of course you will need power in your legs to jump. You really need to be able to lift your own body weight because you will find yourself needing to do this a lot. The disciplines featured on 3run.co.uk all need the athlete to be in good shape, so really take good care of your body, and push for strength, speed, agility and flow full movements. 

For beginning parkour, I would start by doing the basics, which would be vaulting, precision jumping, cat leaps and climbing. You can practice precision jump almost anywhere. The best things to use are the markings on the roads and car parks. They are always well spaced out, and if you can practice jumping from one line and landing on another you can build up your accuracy safely. Once you have done this you can try jumping curbs and begin to take your precision jumps onto low level walls. To start you off vaulting, try simple vaults such as monkey vaults, feed through vaults and speed vaults. Use obstacles such as low walls or rails waist height and progress up. 

With learning anything, its all about progression. Start small and safe and work your way up, making sure you dont skip learning steps and rush yourself. Take your time, only you know your limits. Also I would advise learning the parkour roll. This is used to transfer force from your body into the ground almost. When you are jumping from heights you need to be able to land safely without putting the huge pressures on your joints. So this one of the single most important things when doing parkour. For examples of the parkour roll see help section

Make sure you always stretch before beginning your practice and warm up your muscles. Run about to get your heart rate up. When your finished always making sure you cool down after each session.For Street-stunts it is a little more difficult to begin practicing, For one you need a safe place to practice. No one starts flipping on concrete with no prior knowledge and skill. So find a safe place to practice, a sand pit was where we first began, a gym is even better. Once you have that safe place, and you are in a good physical shape I would say trying front flips is the most obvious move to start with, we did. If you have a trampoline in the gym try using that first to get the feeling of rotating. If your outside doing them on sand or wood chippings keep trying front flips, until your are really comfortable with that motion, then progress to trying airels, side flips and misty flips etc. these are all very low risk moves in my eyes. Once you are getting your basics going well, get two friends to spot you and try back flipping off the edge of the sand pit into the sand, with your two friends on either side to help you rotate.

Once your moves are almost flawless in the sand/gym then if you feel ready you could try it off of a wall onto grass. Its all about safe progression as said earlier, dont do anything if you dont feel 100% capable. The mind aspect is always there in every day life. If you dont believe in yourself, then who will. You need to be open minded to reach a high level of skills. The balance between mental ability and physical ability needs to be equally balanced 50-50, like ying and yan. If you have super physical abilities but dont understand what needs to be done to pull of a complicated move, you will never advance your skills. And visa versa.
Finally I would say when beginning in parkour/martial arts or street stunts, really have respect for what you are doing and for your health, these arts are not just another extreme sport where people dont respect their health and do the craziest thing possible. Its about pushing your limits further in everything you do in life, ascending your level to the next. Be positive and believe in yourself, there really are no limits to what we can do. There are things I thought I would never ever do. And then a month later I find myself doing it, that is one of the most rewarding feelings ever. So just dont set barriers on your abilities.

Chase Armitage


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## Blotan Hunka (Jun 28, 2006)

I think its a good example of human capability and perhaps an expression of the same type of skills that earned the Ninja the "magical" reputation they had. If a ninja had jumped off of a castle roof like you see these guys doing from highrises then they probably thought that ninja could fly.


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## eyebeams (Jun 30, 2006)

Don Roley said:
			
		

> I was talking about how some people market themselves and their image. Marketing does not have to be about money. It can be about image and how they want people in the world to see them.


 
The top level practitioners in anything are going to be famous. In Parkour there are maybe two individuals and two teams with global recognition: David Belle, Sebastian Foucan and the teams Yamakasi and the Urban Freeflow crew. Bell and Foucan represent the two major "schools" of Parkour; the "free run" school allows more dynamic tricks while Belle's Parkour emphasizes efficient movement.



> I take it that Parkour can't really be learned unless from a real group over a long period of time. I doubt that there is a group here in Japan- which is a shame. Recent events have kind of made me want to do some of the basic stuff that site you listed do. The front roll I think they stole from ninpo. :ultracool


 
That's not strictly true. Most Parkour groups started by themselves and learned from practice and online exchanges. They train in gymnastics in controlled conditions in the "off season" to break through to the next plateau in training, but most people (like) me, just keep it season and occasional. There are only a few core techniques that anyone can teach themselves. It's worth noting that most Parkour groups are not concerned with spectacular stunts, as they are only safe for high level practitioners. 



> But that original clip where the guy is jumping down the outside of a building from about the seventh floor is a case of marketing yourself as a bunch of bad dudes instead of being smart and keeping it at a safe elevation. THAT I do not want to do. Too much trouble explaining to the wife why I have to spend the next few months in a body cast.


 
You're not expected to David Belle (the guy in the clip) invented Parkour and is probably the finest practitioner in the entire world. You are also expected to inspect your course before doing your run. You never leap before looking.

My own practice has been most drills on very low surfaces. Here's me performing a palmspin on a very low surface. A palmspin is when you spin on one hand to return in the direction you left. Really good guys can palmspin vertically, but I'm happy with modest surfaces like this (pic of me):







. . . for the vast majority of my training. But high level practitioners will want bigger challenges. I have done some "scary" heights from time to time (vault to about a story drop and roll). The worst injury was a skinned shin from barely clearing a wall.  The injury that's keeping me out of Parkour right now is actually knee problems that developed from untreated flat feet.



> What kind of training options are there for people? Nothing short term?


 
If you're interested you'll want to go to http://www.urbanfreeflow.com and contact interested people in the Tokyo area. The UF crew recently went to Tokyo actually. Pics are here:

http://www.urbanfreeflow.com/urban_graffiti/tokyo/thumbnails.php

You'll already know the roll. It's exactly the same as a bog-standard shoulder roll. Precision jumping is just a matter of practice. I don't do cats myself (I'm a big 6'6" guy so I find it difficult to do and maintain flow), but between those, the rest and vaults, all that's left is to find an area that makes a suitable course, inspect it for possibilities and safety issues and to try to move through it with no pauses or interruptions.


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