# Ninjutsu and Chinese Styles



## Mega_Fist (Jul 31, 2018)

I'm often asked about the relationship between Ninjutsu and some Chinese styles - both make use of flow, both use of martial trickery, both make use of a wide array of weapons. Whenever I've fought Japanese martial artists, I've been struck by how Ninjutsu fighters move in a similar way to the Chinese martial arts guys. 

What do you all think?


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## Xue Sheng (Jul 31, 2018)

Which Chinese styles? there are a lot of them

partial list of Chinese styles of martial arts


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## Mega_Fist (Jul 31, 2018)

I'm referring to the styles that rely heavily on martial trickery - Shaolin Monkey for instance, Lau Gar, and my teacher's family style.


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## dunc (Jul 31, 2018)

There was likely a fair amount of cross pollination of technique and ideas between Chinese martial artists and the families in Iga and Koga areas of japan


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## now disabled (Jul 31, 2018)

Mega_Fist said:


> I'm often asked about the relationship between Ninjutsu and some Chinese styles - both make use of flow, both use of martial trickery, both make use of a wide array of weapons. Whenever I've fought Japanese martial artists, I've been struck by how Ninjutsu fighters move in a similar way to the Chinese martial arts guys.
> 
> What do you all think?




What do you mean by ninjutsu fighters ?


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## hoshin1600 (Jul 31, 2018)

dunc said:


> There was likely a fair amount of cross pollination of technique and ideas between Chinese martial artists and the families in Iga and Koga areas of japan


could you elaborate on this?
are you saying that Japanese Koryu is a derivative of Chinese Martial arts, or Just the arts taught by Takamatsu and Hatsumi?


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## now disabled (Jul 31, 2018)

dunc said:


> There was likely a fair amount of cross pollination of technique and ideas between Chinese martial artists and the families in Iga and Koga areas of japan



I'd like to see where that is recorded ...or is that your own supposition?


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## now disabled (Jul 31, 2018)

Mega_Fist said:


> I'm often asked about the relationship between Ninjutsu and some Chinese styles - both make use of flow, both use of martial trickery, both make use of a wide array of weapons. Whenever I've fought Japanese martial artists, I've been struck by how Ninjutsu fighters move in a similar way to the Chinese martial arts guys.
> 
> What do you all think?



Also I'd like to ask are these ninjutsu fighters claiming to be that and if they are from which school are they claiming their style?
Also if they using trickery then what does that mean firstly? and where have you fought them? 

I'm just interested as well will await the answers first


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## dunc (Jul 31, 2018)

At a general level I think that martial arts evolve over time and absorb techniques, ideas etc that they come across and are useful to their situation 

So I don’t subscribe to the idea of a fixed line of development 

There’s a fair bit of evidence that Chinese and Korean dissidents settled in relatively remote regions of Japan and this includes Iga and Koga

There are old densho from Gyokko Ryu and Koto Ryu listing Chinese names in their lineage and showing drawings of Chinese people doing techniques. It’s unclear to me when these were written and therefore when these influences occurred

The movements of these styles are a bit more “Chinese” than other more mainstream Japanese koryu


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## Xue Sheng (Jul 31, 2018)

dunc said:


> The movements of these styles are a bit more “Chinese” than other more mainstream Japanese koryu



Speaking as a practitioner of Chinese martial arts, I am truly interested in what that actually means. 
What does it mean to have moments that are more Chinese?

I am not arguing this, I too see differences in movement between styles and cultures, I am just curious as to what you are seeing and calling Chinese


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## _Simon_ (Aug 1, 2018)

now disabled said:


> What do you mean by ninjutsu fighters ?


Ah it's these guys man. I'd say they're everywhere, but... they're so stealthy that... well you get the picture.


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## now disabled (Aug 1, 2018)

_Simon_ said:


> Ah it's these guys man. I'd say they're everywhere, but... they're so stealthy that... well you get the picture.


Oh ok lol


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## JR 137 (Aug 1, 2018)

_Simon_ said:


> Ah it's these guys man. I'd say they're everywhere, but... they're so stealthy that... well you get the picture.


I wish there was an “absurdly hilarious” button to use instead of just “funny.”

Two new things jumped out at me...

“10th degree Dragon Belt”  Huh?
I guess Ninjas used Uzis.  Who would’ve thunk it?  Maybe that’s why they were so deadly back in the day.  

This seems like something right up Isiah90’s (or whatever his number was) alley


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## Flying Crane (Aug 1, 2018)

_Simon_ said:


> Ah it's these guys man. I'd say they're everywhere, but... they're so stealthy that... well you get the picture.


Well he says he runs a lot.  So if he has taught people to defectively run away and escap danger, perhaps he has something of value to offer.

And I’m trying to figure this out, is this poster for real, or is it a put-on?


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## _Simon_ (Aug 1, 2018)

Flying Crane said:


> Well he says he runs a lot.  So if he has taught people to defectively run away and escap danger, perhaps he has something of value to offer.
> 
> And I’m trying to figure this out, is this poster for real, or is it a put-on?


Yeah I have no idea, looks legit. As in, serious XD.

And don't forget breathe underwater!!!


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## JR 137 (Aug 2, 2018)

_Simon_ said:


> And don't forget breathe underwater!!!


That one’s actually easily explainable - snorkeling.


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## pdg (Aug 2, 2018)

I'm interested in the bow staff.

Is that like a bo that fires arrows or something?


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## Martial D (Aug 2, 2018)

Mega_Fist said:


> I'm often asked about the relationship between Ninjutsu and some Chinese styles - both make use of flow, both use of martial trickery, both make use of a wide array of weapons. Whenever I've fought Japanese martial artists, I've been struck by how Ninjutsu fighters move in a similar way to the Chinese martial arts guys.
> 
> What do you all think?


'ninjitsu' is a colloquial term for a wide variety of things. Ninjitsu isn't a fighting style.


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## hoshin1600 (Aug 2, 2018)

Mega_Fist said:


> I'm often asked about the relationship between Ninjutsu and some Chinese styles


since this thread has gone down a comical path,  i got to ask....
your asked often?  like how often, once a week, every other day?  and by who?  do you have random strangers stopping you at the market and asking you this?  it would be understandable if you went out in public wearing a Chinese kung- fu outfit and a ninja mask carrying a hollywood ninja-to.


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## pdg (Aug 2, 2018)

hoshin1600 said:


> if you went out in public wearing a Chinese kung- fu outfit and a ninja mask carrying a hollywood ninja-to



From what has been said in other threads, that's more likely to illicit a comment more like "oh, you do karate"


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## Xue Sheng (Aug 2, 2018)

_Simon_ said:


> Ah it's these guys man. I'd say they're everywhere, but... they're so stealthy that... well you get the picture.


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## Dirty Dog (Aug 2, 2018)

_Simon_ said:


> And don't forget breathe underwater!!!



I do that all the time...


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## now disabled (Aug 2, 2018)

Dirty Dog said:


> I do that all the time...
> 
> View attachment 21657




That cheating you don't have on the black pj's and your not using your saya to breathe ................sorry fake don't count lol lol lol


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## hoshin1600 (Aug 2, 2018)

pdg said:


> From what has been said in other threads, that's more likely to illicit a comment more like "oh, you do karate"


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## pdg (Aug 2, 2018)

hoshin1600 said:


> do you have random strangers stopping you at the market and asking you this? it would be understandable if you went out in public wearing a Chinese kung- fu outfit and a ninja mask carrying a hollywood ninja-to.



Just realised something else.

If he was wearing a ninja mask then no random strangers would see him to ask any questions.


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## Dirty Dog (Aug 2, 2018)

now disabled said:


> That cheating you don't have on the black pj's and your not using your saya to breathe ................sorry fake don't count lol lol lol



My wetsuits are all black... the stripe is there to keep me from vanishing. Because ninja.


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## Xue Sheng (Aug 2, 2018)




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## pdg (Aug 2, 2018)

Xue Sheng said:


>



Obviously a trainee ninja - I can still see him, he's just fuzzy around the edges.


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## now disabled (Aug 2, 2018)

Dirty Dog said:


> My wetsuits are all black... the stripe is there to keep me from vanishing. Because ninja.



ok lol your a ninja frogman lol


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## Xue Sheng (Aug 2, 2018)

Dirty Dog said:


> My wetsuits are all black... the stripe is there to keep me from vanishing. Because ninja.


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## blackknight7891 (Aug 4, 2019)

The School Gyokko Ryu taught in X-Kan Dojo's has a lot of chinese based names in it, it also built around circular movement. comparatively Koto Ryu is much more Japanese in just the language, and changes movement styles to linear. The Combat Style in each of the schools is dramatically different, Kukishinden Ryu requires a completely different attitude from the previous two.


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