# I disavow all other star wars movies



## billc

Sitting at home channel surfing I came across my favorite childhood film "Star Wars."  Having watched part of it again, I hereby disavow any and all subsequent star wars movies, including "Empire Strikes Back."  Watching Star Wars just highlights the damage that Lucas did to his greatest movie when he decided to make more of them.  It would be okay to make bad sequels, but the sequels reach into the original movie and do their best to wreck it.   He also tarts it up with all the extra little bits that he put into the scenes, the little alien creatures, the big alien creatures, the alien creatures used for comic relief (why spend all that money to add comic relief to a near perfect movie).  

The tale that Luke and leia are brother and sister and that Darth Vader is Luke and Leia's dad is just really silly.  It detracts from so much of the original that it makes it almost impossible to watch.  I mean, Luke had romantic feelings toward Leia, his sister.  See what I mean.  And the story that Obi wan told about Lukes dad being betrayed by a Jedi named Vader was much more powerful, in that less than a minute clip than the entire movie series about the fall and redemption of vader.

I have to say that the destruction of the Han Solo character's signature scene in the cantina only irritates more and more as time goes by.

So, I disavow any and all knowledge of any movies other than the original Star Wars, the original, not the directors cut.  
Thank you, and good day.


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## Bob Hubbard

Han shot first.


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## MA-Caver

Han shot first. 

Hell, I would've too, when you're a smuggler... there's no such thing as being noble. 

Yes, I've a DVD set of episodes IV-VI and plan to own no other. The set includes the original theatrical version(s) and the enhanced version(s) of each film. 
I've (re)watched both (over a period of time ... not all at once ) and yes, agree that the original(s) that came out, the ones I saw a long time ago in a theater far far away are indeed the best versions. 
That Lucas claims full credit for the idea, concept and story is bunk. He may have run on with ESB and ROTJ but ANH was definitely not his idea. I saw earmarks of another author when I read the novelization (which bears Lucas' name-- funny how he never wrote another book) of one of my all time favorite authors. Signature pacing and story set up and details that are the author's own, Alan Dean Foster, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Dean_Foster#Star_Wars_stories http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars:_From_the_Adventures_of_Luke_Skywalker. He even admitted that he did write the story and sold it to Lucas who of course, ran with it and made a fortune. 
Foster wrote two more Star Wars novels after the success, (probably to compensate for his loss) Splinter Of The Mind's Eye and The Approaching Storm. 

Either way what is done is done what is past is past. The enhanced versions were o..k... though I also feel that some things could've been left out altogether. 

Thankfully I have the originals on DVD and watch them dutifully whenever the mood strikes me.


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## Sukerkin

I read Splinters many many moons ago - I was still a teenager I think :faints:.  Enjoyed it greatly so I am bemused as to why I never bought it.  Something to rectify perhaps.

For me, my favourite Star Wars movie is Return of the Jedi.  That speaks to me on a very emotional level (even the Ewok's ) whilst A New Hope is more of a sci-fi action movie with some gravitas provided by Sir Alec.


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## Bob Hubbard

Which originals?  There were dialog changes between the original theatrical run, and -each- following run and release.


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## Cryozombie

Bill, you are a Blasphemer.  I hearby sentence you to watch the Star Wars Holiday Special, and BOTH Ewok Movies.


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## granfire

Cryozombie said:


> Bill, you are a Blasphemer.  I hearby sentence you to watch the Star Wars Holiday Special, and BOTH Ewok Movies.



Soundtrack made by alwin and the chipmunks....


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## Touch Of Death

billcihak said:


> Sitting at home channel surfing I came across my favorite childhood film "Star Wars."  Having watched part of it again, I hereby disavow any and all subsequent star wars movies, including "Empire Strikes Back."  Watching Star Wars just highlights the damage that Lucas did to his greatest movie when he decided to make more of them.  It would be okay to make bad sequels, but the sequels reach into the original movie and do their best to wreck it.   He also tarts it up with all the extra little bits that he put into the scenes, the little alien creatures, the big alien creatures, the alien creatures used for comic relief (why spend all that money to add comic relief to a near perfect movie).
> 
> The tale that Luke and leia are brother and sister and that Darth Vader is Luke and Leia's dad is just really silly.  It detracts from so much of the original that it makes it almost impossible to watch.  I mean, Luke had romantic feelings toward Leia, his sister.  See what I mean.  And the story that Obi wan told about Lukes dad being betrayed by a Jedi named Vader was much more powerful, in that less than a minute clip than the entire movie series about the fall and redemption of vader.
> 
> I have to say that the destruction of the Han Solo character's signature scene in the cantina only irritates more and more as time goes by.
> 
> So, I disavow any and all knowledge of any movies other than the original Star Wars, the original, not the directors cut.
> Thank you, and good day.


I on the other hand was never really into Star Wars, but intend to re-watch them, now, and catch any I have missed. Maybe there is something to these movies after all.
Sean


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## MA-Caver

Cryozombie said:


> Bill, you are a Blasphemer.  I hearby sentence you to watch the Star Wars Holiday Special, and BOTH Ewok Movies.


You should be banned for even suggesting, hell, even THINKING of utilizing that form of torture. 

Mebbe you can get a job at Guantanamo ?


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## granfire

MA-Caver said:


> You should be banned for even suggesting, hell, even THINKING of utilizing that form of torture.
> 
> Mebbe you can get a job at Guantanamo ?



Come on, it's just _enhanced_, can't be all that bad!
(wasn't the Ewok movie something like the Gummie Bears from Disney?)


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## Big Don

granfire said:


> Come on, it's just _enhanced_, can't be all that bad!
> (wasn't the Ewok movie something like the Gummie Bears from Disney?)


Yeah, a giant gummie bear that's been in your pocket for a month


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## The Last Legionary

Bob Hubbard said:


> Han shot first.


That's what Chewie and Leia claimed too.


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## MA-Caver

Bob Hubbard said:


> Which originals?  There were dialog changes between the original theatrical run, and -each- following run and release.


Far as I know the actual original movie when it first came out. 
To be honest I didn't notice any changes in dialogue... can you clarify which scenes for example (not all of them of course but glaring examples).


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## Archangel M

I have always thought, with an entire galaxy full of living creatures, father/daughter/brother/sister/former teacher/former student ALL just happen to bump into each other over and over again....

right....


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## Bob Hubbard

MA-Caver said:


> Far as I know the actual original movie when it first came out.
> To be honest I didn't notice any changes in dialogue... can you clarify which scenes for example (not all of them of course but glaring examples).


The most notable one is early in the film.  When the Star Destroyer captures the Blockade Runner, 3P0 says "There'll be no escape for the Princess this time". 

I remember him initially saying Captain instead of Princess when I first saw it.


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## Sukerkin

Hmmm ... I first saw this in {mumble mumble} when it was released in the UK.  I don't recall that dialogue difference.

Then again, it took me ages of watching and rewatching the clip of the Stormtrooper hitting his head on the door before I finally saw it :lol:.


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## Bob Hubbard

I've seen it 'a few' times.  lol


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## Sukerkin

A scout of the wonderful resource which is the Net implies that the line Bob refers to was in an early script but never made it onto celluloid.

Quote from http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0076759/trivia:

In earlier versions of the script, the line "There will be no escape for  the Princess this time" was "There will be no escape for the Captain  this time." (A reference to Captain Antilles, who Vader later strangles  to death.)


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## Bob Hubbard

I honestly remember hearing it.  Then again, I also honestly remember having hair too.


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## Sukerkin

:chuckles: I'm with you on that one good sir - that involuntary tonsure I have is most annoying .  I'm okay as long as I'm not around anyone taller than me (assuming I'm not sitting down of course) :lol:.


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## Cryozombie

Well. I do know when it was Originally released, there was no "Episode IV: A New Hope" in the title crawl.  That was added later.


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## Ken Morgan

Phht,

 Star Trek is much better then Star Wars, you sound like a bunch of children arguing about single Oreo's over double Oreo's, when the rest of the world knows chocolate chip cookies kick ***.

This amuses me, it does.


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## Bob Hubbard

[yt]vMcXhUfjj38[/yt]





Yeah...that's how it goes.


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## hongkongfooey

Ken Morgan said:


> Phht,
> 
> Star Trek is much better then Star Wars, you sound like a bunch of children arguing about single Oreo's over double Oreo's, when the rest of the world knows chocolate chip cookies kick ***.
> 
> This amuses me, it does.




Just think about this for a second... Darth Vader vs. Spock in a Force/ Mind Meld death match.


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## Ken Morgan

Star Trek has hotter women...


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## Blade96

billcihak said:


> Sitting at home channel surfing I came across my favorite childhood film "Star Wars."  Having watched part of it again, I hereby disavow any and all subsequent star wars movies, including "Empire Strikes Back."  Watching Star Wars just highlights the damage that Lucas did to his greatest movie when he decided to make more of them.  It would be okay to make bad sequels, but the sequels reach into the original movie and do their best to wreck it.   He also tarts it up with all the extra little bits that he put into the scenes, the little alien creatures, the big alien creatures, the alien creatures used for comic relief (why spend all that money to add comic relief to a near perfect movie).
> 
> The tale that Luke and leia are brother and sister and that Darth Vader is Luke and Leia's dad is just really silly.  It detracts from so much of the original that it makes it almost impossible to watch.  I mean, Luke had romantic feelings toward Leia, his sister.  See what I mean.  And the story that Obi wan told about Lukes dad being betrayed by a Jedi named Vader was much more powerful, in that less than a minute clip than the entire movie series about the fall and redemption of vader.
> 
> I have to say that the destruction of the Han Solo character's signature scene in the cantina only irritates more and more as time goes by.
> 
> So, I disavow any and all knowledge of any movies other than the original Star Wars, the original, not the directors cut.
> Thank you, and good day.



Its called Not watching yer continuity when doing movies, my friend.


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## billc

I meant to post it in the rec room but hit the wrong tab in favorites.  I bet Lucas made me do it...


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## Bob Hubbard

billcihak said:


> I meant to post it in the rec room but hit the wrong tab in favorites.  I bet Lucas made me do it...


thread moved


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## Blade96

billcihak said:


> I meant to post it in the rec room but hit the wrong tab in favorites.  I bet Lucas made me do it...



the man hates you.


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## Omar B

Just like I like my opera, I prefer the second act.  It's all about Empire Strikes Back.


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## Ken Morgan

billcihak said:


> I meant to post it in the rec room but hit the wrong tab in favorites. I bet Lucas made me do it...


 
He's a Marxist you know.


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## granfire

Ken Morgan said:


> Star Trek has hotter women...



and a lot more of them....


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## Chris Parker

Ken Morgan said:


> Phht,
> 
> Star Trek is much better then Star Wars, you sound like a bunch of children arguing about single Oreo's over double Oreo's, when the rest of the world knows chocolate chip cookies kick ***.
> 
> This amuses me, it does.


 
Ken, you and I tend to see eye to eye on most things, but really, here you have lost it completely. One of my poor long suffering workmates made a similar statement a week or two ago, and had to live through a 15 minute diatribe from me on not only exactly how wrong he was, but why, in excruciating detail..... do you really want me to do that here as well??


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## Sensei Payne

All movie Cannon aside..I really enjoyed the Games... Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic and (2)..although two wasn't as good as the first..

I am also looking forward to the new game, the MMO "Star Wars: The Old Republic"

Its a fun way to continue the story.


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## Ken Morgan

Chris Parker said:


> Ken, you and I tend to see eye to eye on most things, but really, here you have lost it completely. One of my poor long suffering workmates made a similar statement a week or two ago, and had to live through a 15 minute diatribe from me on not only exactly how wrong he was, but why, in excruciating detail..... do you really want me to do that here as well??


 
Are we talking Oero's vs. Chocolate chip cookies?
Or Star Wars vs. Star Trek?

I will not give ground on the cookie debate, chocolate chips rule the day.

As for the SWST debate, all are not equal. ST like SW has produced "better" series/movies, while at the same time produced substandard pieces as well. 
For SW, I loved ESB
but for ST I'll take First Contact and DS9 anyday.


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## Chris Parker

Oh, no, you're completly right about the cookies, no question about it!

On the SW/ST question, however..... er, no. Diatribe time? Okay!

Star Wars is based in classic mythology, same as LOTR, and is a retelling of the lessons that guide and shape the values of a society. It gives lessons and allegories for the journey through life, the path from youth to adulthood, the twists and turns that we take, the roads travelled both desired and forced, the wealth that such experience can offer, and the truth of choice versus fate.

Star Trek is about how nice is would be if we all got along.


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## Ken Morgan

Chris Parker said:


> Star Wars is based in classic mythology, same as LOTR, and is a retelling of the lessons that guide and shape the values of a society. It gives lessons and allegories for the journey through life, the path from youth to adulthood, the twists and turns that we take, the roads travelled both desired and forced, the wealth that such experience can offer, and the truth of choice versus fate.
> 
> Star Trek is about how nice is would be if we all got along.


 


Classic mythology?? You mean from the 1930s for LOTR and the 1960s for SW?

So a story has to be based on some underlying current of meaning for it to have more validity then another?

And ST has better looking female characters.


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## Chris Parker

Do you hear me arguing about the ladies?

And, in terms of mythology, no, I'm talking actual classical mythology here, LOTR is based in various Creation Myths, as well as the Hero Myth, and a range of others thrown in along the way. Star Wars is mostly the Hero Myth, but there are other rites of passage aspects thrown in, and the story arc hits the specific points in the correct places in the correct order as well.

And, no, it doesn't have to have some undercurrent as such, but it certainly does give something much greater resonance.... let's face it, Star Wars isn't what it is due to the dialogue or acting!


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## CoryKS

billcihak said:


> Sitting at home channel surfing I came across my favorite childhood film "Star Wars." Having watched part of it again, I hereby disavow any and all subsequent star wars movies, *including "Empire Strikes Back."*


 
You are dead to me.


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## granfire

Chris Parker said:


> Do you hear me arguing about the ladies?
> 
> And, in terms of mythology, no, I'm talking actual classical mythology here, LOTR is based in various Creation Myths, as well as the Hero Myth, and a range of others thrown in along the way. Star Wars is mostly the Hero Myth, but there are other rites of passage aspects thrown in, and the story arc hits the specific points in the correct places in the correct order as well.
> 
> And, no, it doesn't have to have some undercurrent as such, but it certainly does give something much greater resonance.... let's face it, Star Wars isn't what it is due to the dialogue or acting!




Better a good steal than a bad idea....

Tolkien wrote LOTR in (as I recall) Wales which is steeped in myths and legends, at the eve and around WWII (much of Nazi Germany is said to have found it's way into the story)
It's epic, everybody knows it
So somebody else grabbed the story and ran with it. Happens all the time. If it's bad we call it fan fiction....
(World of Warcraft has taken a lot of ideas from both LOFR and Star Wars....)

The art is to make your remake look fresh.

(and the thing about the women...:lfao


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## Ken Morgan

You are so easy to get going sometimes Chris&#8230;..:angel:

I don&#8217;t watch movies or TV to learn about &#8220;things&#8221;, I watch TV and movies to be entertained. I have 2000+ books right behind me, and I have my little computer beside me to help when I need to know &#8220;things&#8221;.

I find SW and ST both entertaining, one I need to focus a bit more to know what is going on, the other I just enjoy the moments as they are presented to me on the screen. Like a book, sometimes it&#8217;s a cheap paperback and at other times it&#8217;s a serious discussion on a subject of interest. 

To me the history the writer(s) used as source material in creating their piece is of no consequence, I ask myself, &#8220;did I or did I not enjoy the experience?&#8221; Was the acting good? Was the FX good? Was the story presented well? It all gives us an experience to enjoy or not. Had I taken theatre or screen writing at school the details would matter more to me than they currently do. 

And it helps having pretty ladies on screen&#8230;&#8230;


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## Chris Parker

Ha, I'm really not arguing about the ladies.... (but next time you put a pic up, T'Pol would be, uh, appreciated....)

The role that Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, and other mythological story-telling take are the role that traditional story-telling had in the village. It's a part of societal growth and maturity that is missing in many ways from today, mainly because people do just go for "hey, it's entertaining" instead. Both are great, both are necessary, and both have their place. But the myths are more important. So I win.

EDIT: Oh, and the films being based in mythology to give lessons to the society is not about learning "things", it's about learning life. A bit different. But we may be getting a bit deeper there than we need to....


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## Sukerkin

Ken Morgan said:


> but for ST I'll take First Contact and DS9 anyday.



Surely you mean Star Trek IV (The Voyage Home) and Voyager?


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## Sukerkin

Ken Morgan said:


>



{Shakes head as if to clear away a fog} Sorry, got distracted there ... what were we talking about? :angel:


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## granfire

Sukerkin said:


> {Shakes head as if to clear away a fog} Sorry, got distracted there ... what were we talking about? :angel:



:lfao:


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## Sukerkin

In line with Chris's request, let's see if I can do this tricksy image embedding thing ...






... this may only work for as long as my image-hoster is logged in, so let me know if it turns into a 'Red X'.

By the way, a word of warning to my fellow Sci-Fi fans - when doing an image search for Jolene Blaloc you get some surprisingly, erm, 'frank' is perhaps the word, results.  Probably best not to do such a search whilst at work or with your missus looking over your shoulder .


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## Big Don




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## Ken Morgan

Educating ourselves or our children about life is not the role of cinema. Yes it can present a film of such profound meaning that it affects us in a meaningful way, and in fact can change our lives by opening our eyes, but it is story telling on screen. Our ancestors told stories around the hearth, using gestures and enunciating words specific ways to evoke deeper meanings, all weve done is use our technology to bring such tales to the screen.

It is the role of parents, grandparents, neighbours, teachers, and experience to teach us the lessons of life, we need to interact with life to learn about life. Sitting in a theatre watching a profound film may validate or invalidate our already constructed beliefs, but I doubt the film will have such an affect as to change the lives of most people watching.

Though given the right set of circumstances Tpol could affect my life in a powerful and meaningful way.


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## Chris Parker

Educating the young generation about the values of the society, and guiding them through the passage towards adulthood has typically been the providence of the community itself (far less the parents than most realize, though...), and one of the primary ways such guidance has been given and passed down through the generations have been these myths and stories. The cinematic version is really just the latest technology for it, really, as the older, traditional methods are less and less seen today. The loss of these myths and the accompanying guidance that they brought has been a big part of the issues that recent (primarily following the Industrial Rwvolution) generations have suffered from, so I'm not about to underestimate or undervalue such stories however they are told.

Have you seen "Reign of Fire" with Christian Bale and Matthew McConoughy? It's set in a future where dragons have returned and pretty much wiped out most of society, and technology. A community, led by Bale, is keeping alive as best they can, trying to keep their values alive, and are putting on plays to tell some of their most important stories. The one chosen is Star Wars, as it fits the role perfectly.

When Viggo Mortensen was asked why LOTR was so important to people he answered "Because it's a true story". This is what the true myths are. Star Trek was Gene Roddenbery's idealized future, where greed and discrimination was forgotten. That's why the original crew was made up of all different races (American, Russian - in the 60's, no less, Japanese, a woman, and an African American one at that, even an alien in Spock). It was a show about tolerance and working together, which is a great ideal to have, a wonderful aim to work for, but it was an expression of individual values, whereas a myth addresses the universal truths in each life.

Seriously, Star Wars wins. 

I do appreciate the T'Pol's, though guys....


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## granfire

Sukerkin said:


> In line with Chris's request, let's see if I can do this tricksy image embedding thing ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ... this may only work for as long as my image-hoster is logged in, so let me know if it turns into a 'Red X'.
> 
> By the way, a word of warning to my fellow Sci-Fi fans - *when doing an image search for Jolene Blaloc you get some surprisingly, erm, 'frank' is perhaps the word, results.*  Probably best not to do such a search whilst at work or with your missus looking over your shoulder .




"This girl is in her working clothes"
~~and with a swing of her hips...


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## Ken Morgan

granfire said:


> "This girl is in her working clothes"
> ~~and with a swing of her hips...


 
Classic tune, classic!


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## Cryozombie

Yes, Star Trek Rules!

Lessee... here's every star trek episode ever summed up:



> Captain, Something Bad is happening!
> 
> We... need... tofixit! (or "Numba One, Make it so!", take your pick)
> 
> Captain, If I modulate the frequency of the (Torpedo, tricorder, warp engines, Holodeck, Transporters, sheilds, Phasers) we will all be saved!
> 
> Hooray!


 
Or... Ho Hum, seen it last week.  

If it's all about the eye candy watch something like the damn playboy channel.   

And besides... Laura Prepon was way hotter in her Princess Leia outfit on that 70's show than she could ever be in a Starfleet uniform.

You nerds.


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## Cryozombie

Also:


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## Cryozombie

Also:

Star Wars Cosplayers:







Star Trek Cosplayers:






Uh uh.  That's what I thought.


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## Sukerkin

Cryozombie said:


> If it's all about the eye candy watch something like the damn playboy channel.



{Hands Cryo a bottle of gripe water}  Drink this then you might not be so grumpy! :lol: {realises far too late that there is an extreme kettle & pot situation here }.

I quite agree that it is about much more than the pretty ladies in the films/programmes.  

Mind you, to not belittle the importance of that part of the appeal of the two sci-fi greats ... here comes the science bit {but science that is probably NSFW}:

http://www.themedguru.com/20091206/newsfeature/stare-boobs-longer-life-study-86131320.html

At their base, Star Wars is heroic mythos, as has been most eloquently stated earlier in the thread.  Star Trek is a broad church of morality plays on the human condition.  For me, both are entertaining and emotionally engaging - so they both win :tup:.



Cryozombie said:


> You nerds.



Aye.  More letters after my name than are in it = guilty as charged on that one .  Never got those two letters in front of my name tho' - something to rectify perhaps?  Always fancied being really addressed as "Doctor" {being nicknamed Professor at school doesn't really count }.

So as such, I should mention that the scientific research linked to earlier may be fraudulent (according to Snopes) - which is a great shame .


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## Cryozombie

Sukerkin said:


> Aye. More letters after my name than are in it = guilty as charged on that one .


 
LOL, FWIW, that was definatley Tongue in Cheek when I said it... I have Star Wars Tattoos, I qualify for the Nerd/Geek catagory myself.


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## Chris Parker

Yes, but we're all missing the important issue here... Cryo, the Cosplay Leia on the far right, er, got any contact details? Purely for research, you understand, getting one of the involved to speak their mind, that sort of thing......


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## Bob Hubbard

I'm Deputy Quadrant Commander, Dark Vengeance Quadrant, Klingon Assault Group.

That and $2 will get you a drink at a fast food place.


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## granfire

Ken Morgan said:


> Classic tune, classic!




HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
Didn't think anybody would catch it!


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## MA-Caver

Cryozombie said:


> Yes, Star Trek Rules!
> 
> Lessee... here's every star trek episode ever summed up:
> 
> 
> 
> Or... Ho Hum, seen it last week.
> 
> If it's all about the eye candy watch something like the damn playboy channel.
> 
> And besides... Laura Prepon was way hotter in her Princess Leia outfit on that 70's show than she could ever be in a Starfleet uniform.
> 
> You nerds.



Three words... 7 of 9

nuff said!


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## granfire

Cryozombie said:


> Also:
> 
> Star Wars Cosplayers:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Star Trek Cosplayers:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uh uh.  That's what I thought.



Those chicks in the 2nd picture....they could almost wear it to the office?


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## Bob Hubbard

The metal bikini is awesome, but nothing compares to Orion Slave Girls.


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## billc

That working together thing, Klingons and Romulans anyone.  That is why I enjoy the original star trek so much over some of the others.  The klingons were the bad guys and Kirk would do what was necessary to defeat their evil actions.  The Next Generation had 10 really good episodes, the best would have to be "Yesterdays Enterprise" followed closely by "Oh, what a wonderful Q."


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## MA-Caver

What was the original topic again???


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## Ken Morgan

Best episode is S6E19 of DS9, "In the pale moon light" 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_the_Pale_Moonlight

Billi you would love it. Sisko does whatever he has to to win the Dominion war. Way cool!


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## Ken Morgan

For Bob....


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## Sukerkin

MA-Caver said:


> What was the original topic again???



That Star Wars I {sorry IV) was the best and only SW film.

Then we got into the different narrative goals between Star Wars and Star Trek.

Then we got into the really important stuff ... :angel:


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## granfire

Ken Morgan said:


> For Bob....




most definitely a 'how in the hell does this stay in place?!'
(or a 'don't it hurt when you rip the duct tape off _there_?')


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## MA-Caver

granfire said:


> most definitely a 'how in the hell does this stay in place?!'
> (or a 'don't it hurt when you rip the duct tape off _there_?')


Maybe but she might like it.


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## granfire

MA-Caver said:


> Maybe but she might like it.




I guess I just experienced a similar feeling to a guy seeing another being kicked in the groin....


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## billc

Maybe I should have paid more attention to Star Trek: Enterprise...


Uhhh...do the orions have discounts...

...do they take visa...


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## MA-Caver

This is a storyboard of a deleted scene from ROTJ  (ok, not but hey it could've been)...


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## Big Don

MA-Caver said:


> This is a storyboard of a deleted scene from ROTJ  (ok, not but hey it Should've been)...


Fixed that for you


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## MA-Caver

Oh and keeping with the thread itself ... I found this in my collection... heh


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## Chris Parker

billcihak said:


> That working together thing, Klingons and Romulans anyone. That is why I enjoy the original star trek so much over some of the others. The klingons were the bad guys and Kirk would do what was necessary to defeat their evil actions. The Next Generation had 10 really good episodes, the best would have to be "Yesterdays Enterprise" followed closely by "Oh, what a wonderful Q."


 
Oh dear lord, Bill, there needs to be an antagonist for the narrative in order to put forward the message of unity that the show was aiming for. In other words, there needed to be something for the diverse group to work together to overcome, and for most of the original series, that was the Klingons. But even that wasn't against the message, as the unity shown was represented by the Federation (The United Federation of Planets); it was a group of different cultures and societies coming together under a single banner. The antagonists were typically (until some of the later movies and series) from outside of the Federation, so to a degree they were exempt from the "togetherness" ideal. 

But, more importantly, Cryo, any news on that Leia's details?


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## Sensei Payne

Oddly, I like both Star Wars and Star Trek...neithe one really wins in my book.

Star Wars should apoligize for Jar jar and a whinie Aniken.

and Star Trek should apoligize for just about every other movie.


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## Bob Hubbard

Cant. We. All. Just. GetAlong? (said Shatner style)


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