# Nick Cerio cut ties w/ USSD



## shaolin ninja 4

Why did nick cerio cut ties with ussd?

Mattera got an 8th from him but after 1993 nick cerio cut ties with him.


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## Hand Sword

It's never been discussed thouroughly, as it was personal, for those that knew about it, but, sift through the Who's Fred Villari thread. It's in there somewhere.


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## Gufbal1982

Well, here's what I heard happened.  Fred Villari originally cut ties when he created his version of "Shaolin Kempo."  Charles Mattera went with him, obviously, and later split off to form his version of USSD.  He got his 8th dan promotion from Cerio, but then, Cerio more than likely saw how greedy Mattera is and decided to cut ties.  He magically got ranked to 9th dan...in the manual it says something about the concil of sokes doing it, and then another magical promotion at the Shaolin Temple for 10th dan.  I'm not sure about the 9th, but how can someone get promoted to a rank of black belt in the temple when the temple doesn't give ranks of black, or ranks in general?  Anyway, this is what I heard thru the grapevine and I hope it's true, otherwise I'm posting rumors.


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## shaolin ninja 4

Gufbal1982 said:


> Well, here's what I heard happened. Fred Villari originally cut ties when he created his version of "Shaolin Kempo." Charles Mattera went with him, obviously, and later split off to form his version of USSD. He got his 8th dan promotion from Cerio, but then, Cerio more than likely saw how greedy Mattera is and decided to cut ties. He magically got ranked to 9th dan...in the manual it says something about the concil of sokes doing it, and then another magical promotion at the Shaolin Temple for 10th dan. I'm not sure about the 9th, but how can someone get promoted to a rank of black belt in the temple when the temple doesn't give ranks of black, or ranks in general? Anyway, this is what I heard thru the grapevine and I hope it's true, otherwise I'm posting rumors.


 

If someone had a copy of his certificate of rank I'd beleave it. Other wise he's another self promoted fat master.


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## Gufbal1982

shaolin ninja 4 said:


> If someone had a copy of his certificate of rank I'd beleave it. Other wise he's another self promoted fat master.


 
LOL.  Well, it's better than the translation of Steve DeMasco's last certificate that translates to "This guy does cool stuff" in Mandarin.


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## shaolin ninja 4

Gufbal1982 said:


> LOL. Well, it's better than the translation of Steve DeMasco's last certificate that translates to "This guy does cool stuff" in Mandarin.


 

Your kidding?  So they were laughing at damasco?


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## Gufbal1982

shaolin ninja 4 said:


> Your kidding? So they were laughing at damasco?


 

I'm not kidding.  it's the truth.  I heard it from a guy that had the certificate translated into English.  He had them put it up in all of the schools that he was in charge of, when he actually had more than one school to be in charge of.  So, I guess they were laughing at him and the Abbot laughed alllllll the way to the bank to cash the check that he wrote.  My bitterness to USSD is showing yet again.


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## shaolin ninja 4

Gufbal1982 said:


> I'm not kidding. it's the truth. I heard it from a guy that had the certificate translated into English. He had them put it up in all of the schools that he was in charge of, when he actually had more than one school to be in charge of. So, I guess they were laughing at him and the Abbot laughed alllllll the way to the bank to cash the check that he wrote. My bitterness to USSD is showing yet again.


 

LOL!  Serves them right!


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## Mariachi Joe

The official story my instructor tells me is that in 2000 both Charles Mattera and Steve Demasco went to the Shaolin Temple with several hundred students and where promoted to 10th dan grandmasters of the shaolin arts and were adopted by the abbott as son's after converting to Buddhism.


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## Danjo

Mariachi Joe said:


> The official story my instructor tells me is that in 2000 both Charles Mattera and Steve Demasco went to the Shaolin Temple with several hundred students and where promoted to 10th dan grandmasters of the shaolin arts and were adopted by the abbott as son's after converting to Buddhism.


 
OooooooKay.


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## Mariachi Joe

I'm not lying Danjo that is the official ussd story, I don't know if it's true or not but that's what ussd says.  I'll find the link to the interview I found where Mattera says this.


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## Danjo

Mariachi Joe said:


> I'm not lying Danjo that is the official ussd story, I don't know if it's true or not but that's what ussd says. I'll find the link to the interview I found where Mattera says this.


 
I have no doubt that your instructor told you that. Furthermore, I have no doubt that that is Charlie's story either.


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## The Kai

_If you guys read the Black belt Magazine in this monyhs issue Steve D colum he states that Kung fu monks would not need to train with guns.   Why?  Their skills would put them on better footing then a shootist.  * He cites as un example how freaking well the Chinese Boxers did during the Boxer rebellion.  *_


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## Danjo

The Kai said:


> _If you guys read the Black belt Magazine in this monyhs issue Steve D colum he states that Kung fu monks would not need to train with guns. Why? Their skills would put them on better footing then a shootist. *He cites as un example how freaking well the Chinese Boxers did during the Boxer rebellion. *_


 
Umm...I thought they were massacred due to their irronious belief that their Iron Shirt stuff would deflect bullets.


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## Mariachi Joe

www.shaolinsecrets.com/aboutus.php

If you go there you'll see a bio on Mattera where it is mentioned that he was adopted by the Abbott


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## Danjo

Mariachi Joe said:


> www.shaolinsecrets.com/aboutus.php
> 
> If you go there you'll see a bio on Mattera where it is mentioned that he was adopted by the Abbott


 
Thanks for the link. the whole things seems a bit gimicky to me though.


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## Mariachi Joe

Your welcome, gimmick or not I don't know but Charles Mattera got some transcripts from the Abbott that he is turning into a book which is being sold for $200.  The book is supposed to have all sorts of secrets to becoming healthier and stronger like the monks.  It's at ussd's website if want to see the advertisment.


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## Danjo

Mariachi Joe said:


> Your welcome, gimmick or not I don't know but Charles Mattera got some transcripts from the Abbott that he is turning into a book which is being sold for $200. The book is supposed to have all sorts of secrets to becoming healthier and stronger like the monks. It's at ussd's website if want to see the advertisment.


 
Oh boy.


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## Mariachi Joe

www.shaolinsecrets.com

that's the link. Oh and there are nine more volumes on the way


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## Danjo

Mariachi Joe said:


> www.shaolinsecrets.com
> 
> that's the link. Oh and there are nine more volumes on the way


 
Oh, I'm real sure they contain the secrets of the universe. And all for only 200 bucks a whack eh? What a bargain!


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## Mariachi Joe

so for a grand total of $2,000 you too can know the secrets of the shaolin temple.  Who says you can't put a price on knowledge


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## Danjo

Mariachi Joe said:


> so for a grand total of $2,000 you too can know the secrets of the shaolin temple. Who says you can't put a price on knowledge


 As long as I can end up looking like Charlie Mattera, all's good.


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## Mariachi Joe

hahaha that's good:rofl:


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## Mariachi Joe

I might end up in the same boat as you Danjo, when my two year contract is up I'll probably leave ussd since I won't be able to afford an increase to $200/month.  I'm going to look into some epak studio's and a Kara-Ho teacher, and the place my supervisor does BJJ.  What made you chose Kajukenbo?  Is it similar to SKK.


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## Danjo

Mariachi Joe said:


> I might end up in the same boat as you Danjo, when my two year contract is up I'll probably leave ussd since I won't be able to afford an increase to $200/month. I'm going to look into some epak studio's and a Kara-Ho teacher, and the place my supervisor does BJJ. What made you chose Kajukenbo? Is it similar to SKK.


 
Long story. Not really similar to SKK, but if you like SKK and are serious about good training, you'll really like Kajukenbo IMO.

Basically, I was told to check out Kajukenbo and started looking into it. I ordered the WKO tape series from John Bishop and really liked what I saw and started to learn the techniques as best I could. About a year later, I went to train live with John Bishop and have enjoyed every minute of it. There was a lot I had to correct when I went there (you can only get so much from tapes), but it's been a blast.

I actually bought out my contract when my instructor Gufbal1982 left by paying off all of my discounted fees since I had joined. I had about 9 months or so left on the contract. I took BJJ for about 6 months at the Ralph Gracie academy in Placentia, CA with Brad Jackson. Then he left to become a full time School Psychologist, so I quit too (the new guy from Brazil trained us like we were all getting ready for the Octagon or something which was a bit much for my needs).

Good luck with everything.


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## Mariachi Joe

My supervisor that trains in BJJ does it for the octagon so I wonder what kind of training I'll get there.  No Kajukenbo that I know of here in Utah so I'm leaning toward Kara-Ho or epak.


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## Danjo

Mariachi Joe said:


> My supervisor that trains in BJJ does it for the octagon so I wonder what kind of training I'll get there. No Kajukenbo that I know of here in Utah so I'm leaning toward Kara-Ho or epak.


They're both very good arts. Ask around to those on the forum here about the specifics of each club you're considering joining to save yourself some hassle.


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## Gufbal1982

Mariachi Joe said:


> Your welcome, gimmick or not I don't know but Charles Mattera got some transcripts from the Abbott that he is turning into a book which is being sold for $200. The book is supposed to have all sorts of secrets to becoming healthier and stronger like the monks. It's at ussd's website if want to see the advertisment.


 
That website is run by Bill Huff from Laguna Niguel 1.


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## Mariachi Joe

With as much as I already pay ussd, no way I'm gonna pony over $200 for a book.


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## Danjo

Mariachi Joe said:


> With as much as I already pay ussd, no way I'm gonna pony over $200 for a book.


 
I'd rather pay that much for a book than pay that much for instruction. Of course, it would depend on the book.


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## Danjo

Gufbal1982 said:


> That website is run by Bill Huff from Laguna Niguel 1.


 
For some reason, in my personal experience, every time I sparred someone from Laguna Niguel at one of those closed USSD tournaments, I lost to guys that scored with punches and kicks that missed me by at least three feet, while mine that made contact weren't counted. Hmmmmmm....don't think there was any favoritism at work do you? Nah, couldn't be.


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## Mariachi Joe

I learned that the trick is to hit them in the head and make sure their head wobbles, then it makes it that much harder to not "notice" your hit.  It works for me (sometimes)


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## 14 Kempo

Danjo said:


> For some reason, in my personal experience, every time I sparred someone from Laguna Niguel at one of those closed USSD tournaments, I lost to guys that scored with punches and kicks that missed me by at least three feet, while mine that made contact weren't counted. Hmmmmmm....don't think there was any favoritism at work do you? Nah, couldn't be.


 
I agree, for the most part, although I've had a lot of success in the 'closed tournaments' ... I've had a lot of points scored against me that would do absolutely nothing in the street. I believe in controlled contact. I agree, there should be nothing broken or bleeding ... LOL ... but there needs to be something remaining when a strike is thrown, especially at higher ranks. In otherwords, over-extended punches and kicks do nothing and therefore should count as nothing. Yes, at times, and at certain ranks, there does seem to be some favoritism. I just pride myself in the fact that those I compete with respect what I do and leave it at that ...


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## Gufbal1982

Danjo said:


> For some reason, in my personal experience, every time I sparred someone from Laguna Niguel at one of those closed USSD tournaments, I lost to guys that scored with punches and kicks that missed me by at least three feet, while mine that made contact weren't counted. Hmmmmmm....don't think there was any favoritism at work do you? Nah, couldn't be.


 

No...no favoritism...no way.


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## shaolin ninja 4

Ok does anyone know why GM Cerio left ussd?


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## almost a ghost

shaolin ninja 4 said:


> Ok does anyone know why GM Cerio left ussd?



I don't recall Cerio ever being a part of the USSD organization, even the rank certificate given to Mattera for 8th degree is from Cerio's organization, not USSD's.
http://www.ussd.com/xpage/xpage.asp?p=ceriotributepage1


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## Danjo

almost a ghost said:


> I don't recall Cerio ever being a part of the USSD organization, even the rank certificate given to Mattera for 8th degree is from Cerio's organization, not USSD's.
> http://www.ussd.com/xpage/xpage.asp?p=ceriotributepage1


 
They were definitley affiliated for a while. There's even a USSD green belt on Cerio's Kempo Hands video as uke for him.


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## Mariachi Joe

So does anyone know why Nick Cerio cut ties with USSD?


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## IRO-Bot

I brought this up with my instructor, and he gave me this "where have you been getting your information" look, and told me that Cerio was the Headmaster of United Studios until the day he died.
It seems a bit odd getting different stories from different people both inside and outside the organization, doesn't it?


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## Danjo

IRO-Bot said:


> I brought this up with my instructor, and he gave me this "where have you been getting your information" look, and told me that Cerio was the Headmaster of United Studios until the day he died.
> It seems a bit odd getting different stories from different people both inside and outside the organization, doesn't it?


 
Well, I'm sure that's the USSD party line these days. You should contact Cerio's people and ask them what the deal was.


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## Mariachi Joe

that's odd Ryan would say that, Scott knows that Prof. Cerio had his own organization.  Scott told me that GM Villari was the one that started ussd.


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## IRO-Bot

Mariachi Joe said:


> that's odd Ryan would say that, Scott knows that Prof. Cerio had his own organization.  Scott told me that GM Villari was the one that started ussd.



And Ryan thinks that Villari is a scumbag.  Find it odd that two USSD instructors in the same STATE are telling two different stories?


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## Gufbal1982

IRO-Bot said:


> I brought this up with my instructor, and he gave me this "where have you been getting your information" look, and told me that Cerio was the Headmaster of United Studios until the day he died.
> It seems a bit odd getting different stories from different people both inside and outside the organization, doesn't it?


 
I have no idea where your instructor is getting his information.  Your manual says that Professor Mattera is the headmaster, and from what my manual says, was even at 8th degree black.  Professor Cerio was not the Headmaster of USSD...ever in the history of USSD.  From what I remember, Professor Cerio only taught Mr. Mattera from 7th degree until 8th degree, and then cut ties with him in 1993.  Mr. Mattera was taught from 1st degree black till 7th degree black by GrandMaster Fred Villari.


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## thatdude

Mariachi Joe said:


> So does anyone know why Nick Cerio cut ties with USSD?



I dont know?  It could be that mattera started wearing a 9th degree and thats why cerio cut all ties with ussd in 93? 
Cerio only promoted mattera to 8th.


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## shaolin ninja 4

IRO-Bot said:


> I brought this up with my instructor, and he gave me this "where have you been getting your information" look, and told me that Cerio was the Headmaster of United Studios until the day he died.
> It seems a bit odd getting different stories from different people both inside and outside the organization, doesn't it?


 
Hey IRO-BOT,
Have you asked your instructor if he knows where Mattera got his 9th dan?


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## Mariachi Joe

In the USSD manual it says that GM Mattera got his 9th dan from the world council of sokes.  Sorry to sound ignorant but what is the world council of sokes?


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## Danjo

Mariachi Joe said:


> In the USSD manual it says that GM Mattera got his 9th dan from the world council of sokes. Sorry to sound ignorant but what is the world council of sokes?


 
Here they are:
*World Council of Sokes*
Soke Jorge Luis Garcia-Ortiz, 8th Dan

Nagashimasu-Te Aikido

Grandmaster Ljubomir Ljuba Vracarevic, 10th Dan

Real Aikido System

Grandmaster Carlos Febres, 10th Dan

Nindo Ryu Gendai Ninjutsu 

Grandmaster Reginald Hoover, 10th Dan

Butokutsuru Ryu Kempo-Jutsu

Grandmaster Rick Greene, 10th Dan

Bushi Jujitsu 

Takai Shin Kempo Karate

Grandmaster Larry Sanders, 10th Dan

Sessen Jutsu Aiki-Jutsu

Grandmaster Taxiarhis Karalis, 10th Dan

Goshin SenJutsu Kempo

Grandmaster George Lukacs, 10th Dan

Tactical Combat Arts System

Ni Dai Soke Jose I. Caban, 8th Dan

Nisei Jujitsu

Soke Mihails Pupinsh, 8th Dan

Eko Do Kempo Karate

Soke Bryan Cheek, 8th Dan

Jukoshin Ryu Jujitsu

Soke George T. Ross, 8th Dan

Kagaku Michi Tekio Bujutsu
Soke Robert J. Gelinas, 7th Dan
Kajukido
Kajuki Ryu Jujitsu

Soke Andrew Morell, 6th Dan

Cobra Freestyle Martial Art
Master Alvie L. Walts, 5th Dan

ACF Self Defense System

Master Brett Ernest, 5th Dan

American Tiger Jujitsu

Master John Paul Corrigan, 5th Dan

Tatakai Jikaboei Do Kempo

Master Zouaier Chebbi

World Martial Arts Organizations Alliance

Soke Sho Dai David Kacperski, 5th Dan

Kasakaido Ryu Karate Jutsu / Budo​


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## Gufbal1982

Mariachi Joe said:


> In the USSD manual it says that GM Mattera got his 9th dan from the world council of sokes. Sorry to sound ignorant but what is the world council of sokes?


 
Actually, the manual says that the Shihan title was given to him by a member of the Council of Sokes...he was not awarded a 9th degree by them.  He was given that title April 3, 1993 by Professor Nick Cerio at a USSD seminar starring Nick Cerio.


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## Gufbal1982

Danjo said:


> Here they are:
> *World Council of Sokes*
> Soke Jorge Luis Garcia-Ortiz, 8th Dan​
> Nagashimasu-Te Aikido​
> Grandmaster Ljubomir Ljuba Vracarevic, 10th Dan​
> Real Aikido System​
> Grandmaster Carlos Febres, 10th Dan​
> Nindo Ryu Gendai Ninjutsu ​
> Grandmaster Reginald Hoover, 10th Dan​
> Butokutsuru Ryu Kempo-Jutsu​
> Grandmaster Rick Greene, 10th Dan​
> Bushi Jujitsu ​
> Takai Shin Kempo Karate​
> Grandmaster Larry Sanders, 10th Dan​
> Sessen Jutsu Aiki-Jutsu​
> Grandmaster Taxiarhis Karalis, 10th Dan​
> Goshin SenJutsu Kempo​
> Grandmaster George Lukacs, 10th Dan​
> Tactical Combat Arts System​
> Ni Dai Soke Jose I. Caban, 8th Dan​
> Nisei Jujitsu​
> Soke Mihails Pupinsh, 8th Dan​
> Eko Do Kempo Karate​
> Soke Bryan Cheek, 8th Dan​
> Jukoshin Ryu Jujitsu​
> Soke George T. Ross, 8th Dan​
> Kagaku Michi Tekio Bujutsu
> Soke Robert J. Gelinas, 7th Dan
> Kajukido
> Kajuki Ryu Jujitsu​
> Soke Andrew Morell, 6th Dan​
> Cobra Freestyle Martial Art
> Master Alvie L. Walts, 5th Dan​
> ACF Self Defense System​
> Master Brett Ernest, 5th Dan​
> American Tiger Jujitsu​
> Master John Paul Corrigan, 5th Dan​
> Tatakai Jikaboei Do Kempo​
> Master Zouaier Chebbi​
> World Martial Arts Organizations Alliance​
> Soke Sho Dai David Kacperski, 5th Dan​
> Kasakaido Ryu Karate Jutsu / Budo​


 

Where's USSD in there?  I'm confused...I thought if you were awarded a title, you could be a part of the world council...so, what happened to USSD?


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## Danjo

Gufbal1982 said:


> Where's USSD in there? I'm confused...I thought if you were awarded a title, you could be a part of the world council...so, what happened to USSD?


 
A better question is, "Who are _any_ of these guys?"


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## IRO-Bot

Gufbal1982 said:


> Where's USSD in there?  I'm confused...I thought if you were awarded a title, you could be a part of the world council...so, what happened to USSD?



Mattera wasn't awarded the title of Soke, he was awarded the title of Shihan, as with DeMasco. And then I think Mattera named Paul Taylor "Shihan", from what I understand.


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## shaolin ninja 4

He was awarded the title by nick cerio a member of the World Council of Sokes NOT THE WORLD COUNCIL OF SOKES!


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## Gufbal1982

Danjo said:


> A better question is, "Who are _any_ of these guys?"


 

LOL!  I have no idea...


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## Mariachi Joe

Your right, I looked at my manual and it says he was awarded 9th by a member, not the council itself.  Sorry for the omitted item.  I wonder why they don't just say that it was Cerio that gave him his 9th dan.


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## Gufbal1982

Mariachi Joe said:


> Your right, I looked at my manual and it says he was awarded 9th by a member, not the council itself. Sorry for the omitted item. I wonder why they don't just say that it was Cerio that gave him his 9th dan.


 
it says shihan...shihan means headmaster not 9th degree.  here's links to what i say on the ussd website

http://ussd.com/lineagecerio.asp

http://www.ussd.com/xpage/xpage.asp?p=legendspage1


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## shaolin ninja 4

Gufbal1982 said:


> it says shihan...shihan means headmaster not 9th degree. here's links to what i say on the ussd website
> 
> http://ussd.com/lineagecerio.asp
> 
> http://www.ussd.com/xpage/xpage.asp?p=legendspage1


 
If you down load the state of the arts mag from ussd http://www.ussd.com/xpage/xpage.asp?p=stateoftheartmag

Charles mattera states he will never forget this day when he got his shihan belt and there are only two ways to get rank, add the stripes or hard work.


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## almost a ghost

At the USSD North East schools, wasn't there seperate kung fu program going along with the standard kempo curriculim?


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## shaolin ninja 4

almost a ghost said:


> At the USSD North East schools, wasn't there seperate kung fu program going along with the standard kempo curriculim?


Talk to gufbal she would know.


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## Matt

almost a ghost said:


> At the USSD North East schools, wasn't there seperate kung fu program going along with the standard kempo curriculim?



Up until the disintegration of the USSD East coast, that's the way it was in the final few years.


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## almost a ghost

Matt said:


> Up until the disintegration of the USSD East coast, that's the way it was in the final few years.



Do you have any more information on it? I remember seeing some pictures and class schedules on the web, but it must of been on the final month of the final year the were doing it.


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## Gufbal1982

almost a ghost said:


> Do you have any more information on it? I remember seeing some pictures and class schedules on the web, but it must of been on the final month of the final year the were doing it.


 
Yes, in the final years they had a separate kung fu program, and in fact, the splintered off ussd schools still have that.  All the instructors used to have DeMasco's "certification" on their walls and one of my friends back east had it translated and it really says "this guy does cool stuff"


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## almost a ghost

Got any more information on that kung fu style they were teaching?


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## Gufbal1982

almost a ghost said:


> Got any more information on that kung fu style they were teaching?


 
Yes, actually I do.  That kung fu taught there was the Steve DeMasco version of Master Tak Wah Eng's style.


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## MeatWad2

Gufbal1982 said:


> Yes, actually I do. That kung fu taught there was the Steve DeMasco version of Master Tak Wah Eng's style.


 

I heard Steve DeMasco's versions are different than the other dude's.  why did he change it?  also, why did nick cerio cut ties with charles mattera and ussd?  does anyone know?


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## Josh Oakley

Danjo said:


> As long as I can end up looking like Charlie Mattera, all's good.


 
Ouch. It's not like the's the only big master in kenpo in general, though. On the plus side, he's at least trying to correct his weight problem now, and incorperating proper nutrition into the instructor curriculum. 

I was his uke this weekend at a seminar he did last weekend, though. I really didn't see anything lacking in his martial skills, and he's one hell of a nice guy. It was a bit difficult to bear hug the guy, though. 

(it was me and my fiancee's 5 year anniversary, so we went to the seminar as a date. Nothing is more appropriate for celebrating 5 years thatn beating the everliving crap out of eachother, IMO.)


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## Danjo

Josh Oakley said:


> Ouch. It's not like the's the only big master in kenpo in general, though. On the plus side, he's at least trying to correct his weight problem now, and incorperating proper nutrition into the instructor curriculum.
> 
> I was his uke this weekend at a seminar he did last weekend, though. I really didn't see anything lacking in his martial skills, and he's one hell of a nice guy. It was a bit difficult to bear hug the guy, though.
> 
> (it was me and my fiancee's 5 year anniversary, so we went to the seminar as a date. Nothing is more appropriate for celebrating 5 years thatn beating the everliving crap out of eachother, IMO.)


 
People look all manner of different ways in terms of what kind of shape they're in. Some large people move well, others do not. I've seen Charlie move. I'll just leave it at that.


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## Mariachi Joe

I was watching the Villari DVD'd (thanks Dan) and Villari moves really well for a guy in his mid sixties.  How well would you say Mattera moves in comparison?


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## Danjo

Mariachi Joe said:


> I was watching the Villari DVD'd (thanks Dan) and Villari moves really well for a guy in his mid sixties. How well would you say Mattera moves in comparison?


 I'll PM you. Glad you liked the DVDs.


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## Iron Leopard

Not arguing with anyone here. I haven't seen villari move but I have seen mattera move in the last few years. He's definatly lost a step but every once in a while he moves so fast he let's you know he would smack you down. I keep hearing also that if anyone ever did walk in and confront villari even now that he would just crush them. I think they are both still tough guys.


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## Danjo

Iron Leopard said:


> Not arguing with anyone here. I haven't seen villari move but I have seen mattera move in the last few years. He's definatly lost a step but every once in a while he moves so fast he let's you know he would smack you down. I keep hearing also that if anyone ever did walk in and confront villari even now that he would just crush them. I think they are both still tough guys.


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## Mariachi Joe

Prof. Shuras did say that not many challenged Villari back in the day and the ones that did had nothing to brag about after.  I've never seen Mattera move so I won't comment on him, has anyone seen how Prof Cerio moved, I'd be interested to hear about that


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## Hand Sword

I remember them in my younger days, all legit artists. People see Mr. Vilari now, and judge. He's in his mid 60's (?), and moves very well from what I've seen. Those that feel now, and did then, seen, and knew would testify to his skill. Even other masters that did not like him did. As for Mr. Cerio, what can be said? A hard Core BB, from Mr. Pesare, 'nough said! All that knew him said that if they got into it, they'd want him there with them. Business practices aside, they all came up in the old school, trained that way, and had personalities to match.


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## Mariachi Joe

I would love to see footage of all the old masters doing their thing


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## Gufbal1982

Mariachi Joe said:


> I would love to see footage of all the old masters doing their thing


 

Check out youtube.com...I've found Nick Cerio on there before doing Shushi No Kan Sho.  You can seriously find a lot of Master's on there...though, I haven't found FV on there.


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## Gufbal1982

Josh Oakley said:


> Ouch. It's not like the's the only big master in kenpo in general, though. On the plus side, he's at least trying to correct his weight problem now, and incorperating proper nutrition into the instructor curriculum.
> 
> I was his uke this weekend at a seminar he did last weekend, though. I really didn't see anything lacking in his martial skills, and he's one hell of a nice guy. It was a bit difficult to bear hug the guy, though.
> 
> (it was me and my fiancee's 5 year anniversary, so we went to the seminar as a date. Nothing is more appropriate for celebrating 5 years thatn beating the everliving crap out of eachother, IMO.)


 

I've heard that Mr. Mattera was definately a fighter back in the day.  However, you have to remember that he did have a knee surgery and those things are never good.  You rarely ever get back to 100% of where you were before.  

It's nice that he's incorporating an instructor nutritional program into the curriculum.  Everything has to come from the top though.  As an instructor, you learn by example.  Do you all go to see a nutritionist?  That's the only way to truely know what's right for your body.  Some people actually do have a larger frame (as in bone structure) than others.  Also, your nutrition program should take into account that some people, if they are chubby, may have problems losing weight because of a thyroid problem or what not.  So, if nutrition is truely a new thing being enforced for instructors, then a trip to the doctor and/or nutritionist is in order.  That's not just my opinion as an instructor either.  It's coming from experience.


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## Mariachi Joe

Gufbal1982 said:


> Check out youtube.com...I've found Nick Cerio on there before doing Shushi No Kan Sho. You can seriously find a lot of Master's on there...though, I haven't found FV on there.


 
Will do, thanks


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## Gentle Fist

Gufbal1982 said:


> Check out youtube.com...I've found Nick Cerio on there before doing Shushi No Kan Sho. You can seriously find a lot of Master's on there...though, I haven't found FV on there.


 
That is hardly Nick Cerio performing Shushi in the video you commented on.  That is a junior black belt or a newbie adult shodan.

Shushi No Kon Sho is taught at adult Nikyu / children's Ikkyu level.  Not a bad little form to get someone use to the bo.


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## Gufbal1982

fistlaw720 said:


> That is hardly Nick Cerio performing Shushi in the video you commented on. That is a junior black belt or a newbie adult shodan.
> 
> Shushi No Kon Sho is taught at adult Nikyu / children's Ikkyu level. Not a bad little form to get someone use to the bo.


 

Um, it's on there.  You just have to look hard to find it.  I know I did.  We also may not be viewing the same video as things do get taken off of Youtube all the time.


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## Gentle Fist

Gufbal1982 said:


> Um, it's on there. You just have to look hard to find it. I know I did. We also may not be viewing the same video as things do get taken off of Youtube all the time.


 
He IS on the video in question, but is not doing the form himself. Another person/kid is.  Not trying to be picky.


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## Gufbal1982

fistlaw720 said:


> He IS on the video in question, but is not doing the form himself. Another person/kid is.  Not trying to be picky.



That wasn't the clip I saw.  Mine was up there like 2 or 3 months ago.  I know the one you are talking about because it is directly from the cerio bo tape.  Maybe we really have seen two different things.


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## Iron Leopard

what did you put in the search on youtube?


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## Gufbal1982

Nick Cerio


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## Iron Leopard

duh! lol  I find that sometimes in youtube..one day what you want pops up first and the next day you have to sort through everything to find the video you want! lol


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## MeatWad2

So whats the deal man with NickCerio cutting ties with ussd?


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## Gufbal1982

MeatWad2 said:


> So whats the deal man with NickCerio cutting ties with ussd?


 
I don't think anyone really knows the answer to the question...


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## Hand Sword

(Waiting for Professor Shuras to reply)


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## shaolin ninja 4

Hand Sword said:


> (Waiting for Professor Shuras to reply)


Is he a member here?


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## Hand Sword

Yes He is. He has been busy for a while, but, he does chime in from time to time.


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## Gufbal1982

I was talking to an FV instructor last night (high ranking master) and he said something about Professor Cerio laughing at them for wanting to return to the source...but that was after the first time USSD returned.


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## Mariachi Joe

I'd be very interested to hear what Prof. Churas' opinion of the matter is.


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## Carol

shaolin ninja 4 said:


> Is he a member here?


 
Yes, Professor Shuras is a member here.


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## Hand Sword

I thought so too, until I just checked his account here, it said account closed. A very big loss to this community.


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## Carol

Hmm....I wonder if I can talk him in to rejoining.

He's just down the Pike in Milford.....he can't run from us


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## Hand Sword

I hope so, he's a real assett here. I'll drop him a line too, or try to get a response that I can post here for him.


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## Mariachi Joe

Hand Sword said:


> I thought so too, until I just checked his account here, it said account closed. A very big loss to this community.


 
Say it ain't so


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## Hand Sword

I wish that I could, but, unfortunately, it's true. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Definately a huge loss to MT!


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## DavidCC

I believe he re-opened an account under a new name back in March-April time...


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## Hand Sword

I did check that one, it said account closed.


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## Gufbal1982

Hand Sword said:


> I did check that one, it said account closed.


 
Please someone find him...he's like a living encyclopedia for Shaolin Kempo...


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## Mariachi Joe

Gufbal1982 said:


> Please someone find him...he's like a living encyclopedia for Shaolin Kempo...


 

I've spent many an hour reading through his old posts, lot's of great information in there.


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## Hand Sword

Gufbal1982 said:


> Please someone find him...he's like a living encyclopedia for Shaolin Kempo...


 
I'll drop him a line and see what can be done, or at least get some answers to post in his behalf, hopefully.


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## Mariachi Joe

Hand Sword said:


> I'll drop him a line and see what can be done, or at least get some answers to post in his behalf, hopefully.


 
Thank you, it would be a terrible lose to us in MT if Prof. Shuras wasn't around to set us straight from time to time.


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## Hand Sword

Indeed it would!


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## Mariachi Joe

Speaking of Prof. Nick Cerio, how long did he train with Prof Chow?  I've heard different things.


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## dianhsuhe

3 Weeks total-

One trip was 2 weeks the other was 1 week.

Have a great night!


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## Mariachi Joe

dianhsuhe said:


> 3 Weeks total-
> 
> One trip was 2 weeks the other was 1 week.
> 
> Have a great night!


 
Thanks, did Prof Cerio train with Bill Chun Sr on a seperate ocassion or is his time with him included in his 3 weeks with Prof. Chow?


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## youngbraveheart

Mariachi Joe said:


> Thanks, did Prof Cerio train with Bill Chun Sr on a seperate ocassion or is his time with him included in his 3 weeks with Prof. Chow?


 
I remember reading about Professor Cerio's training with Grandmaster Bill Chun Sr. from another (old) thread that Professor Joe Shuras replied to:

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9546&page=9

"_Hey CoolKempoDude, hope all is well! Master Bill Chun Sr. and his son, Master Bill Chun Jr. were very, very close to Professor Chow. When Professor Cerio first wanted to study with Professor Chow, Mr. Ed Parker gave him an 'intro' to Master Bill Chun Sr. and Mr. Cerio began studying with Mr. Chun. Then, in turn, Master Chun Sr. gave Professor Cerio an 'intro' to William Chow and he started studying with him. That's how it was done, the 'intro' thing, sort of like vouching for someone. They wouldn't just take anyone. I thoroughly enjoyed the seminar and myself, KenpoJoe Rebelo and Sensei Matt Barnes got to go over Hansuki with Master Chun Jr. Don't get me wrong, since it was and still is a 'chosen' form he could not go over it in its entirety or in any great detail, but he took a little from the beginning, the middle and the end and only did it once so you had better pay attention if you wanted to pick up anything and he did it fast. I got to put some of the 'original' back in the version I was taught. Hansuki is a favorite form of mine so this alone made the seminar for me, if you know what I mean. KenpoJoe and Matt have the same version of Hansuki as myself and Master Chun looked at it but was not critical at all for the alterations. He stated as long as you give its original creator the credit for the form, there is nothing wrong with adding your signature moves. As each master does this down the lineage line, each is contributing something to the form which is passed on and the system continues to evolve. I know some I agree with this and some don't but I'm just relaying what he told me in an e-mail. Yes, my friend who trains under Master Chun is a Nick Cerio 5th dan, Shihan John James, very knowledgable, a gentleman and above all, a fighter. You can e-mail him at the Nick Cerio website for he knows much more about Master Chun and Goshinjitsu Kai Chinese Kempo than I. Respectfully submitted."_


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## Mariachi Joe

Hey James I'm training with Jeff Hayes on Tuesday, I'm excited to get to see Kara-Ho.


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## dianhsuhe

Joe-  Great news!  I was fortunate to meet him during a turbulent time in my martial arts career and I have him to thank for bringing me with him to Kara-Ho Kempo and for being a great friend.

I am proud to call him my instructor even though geographically we cannot train together.

I suggest you mention your previous training and I bet he will show you some differences in the 2 systems.  

Please report back in here if you would and share your insights with us!

james


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## Mariachi Joe

dianhsuhe said:


> Joe- Great news! I was fortunate to meet him during a turbulent time in my martial arts career and I have him to thank for bringing me with him to Kara-Ho Kempo and for being a great friend.
> 
> I am proud to call him my instructor even though geographically we cannot train together.
> 
> I suggest you mention your previous training and I bet he will show you some differences in the 2 systems.
> 
> Please report back in here if you would and share your insights with us!
> 
> james


 
Will do, can't wait till Tuesday


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## shaolin ninja 4

How did your training go? And how was it compared to shaolin kempo?


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## Mariachi Joe

James- Sensei Jeff sends his regards, I told him about MT and he might be joining.

Shaolin Ninja-It's hard to imagine that SKK came from Kara-Ho, they are very different.  Kara-Ho puts a lot more emphasis on Chi and building up your internal strength.  Another difference is that in Kara-Ho you don't get into a horse stance and punch and kick, all the strikes are done while moving so that you get used to stricking while in movement instead of being staitionary.  Kara-Ho I think is more built for the streets and would probably make you a better streetfighter than SKK.  Just my two cents though.


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## marlon

Mariachi Joe said:


> James- Sensei Jeff sends his regards, I told him about MT and he might be joining.
> 
> Shaolin Ninja-It's hard to imagine that SKK came from Kara-Ho, they are very different. Kara-Ho puts a lot more emphasis on Chi and building up your internal strength. Another difference is that in Kara-Ho you don't get into a horse stance and punch and kick, all the strikes are done while moving so that you get used to stricking while in movement instead of being staitionary. Kara-Ho I think is more built for the streets and would probably make you a better streetfighter than SKK. Just my two cents though.


 
do they root when they strike even momentarily?

marlon


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## dianhsuhe

Sure you could say we "root" for a split second but a deep stance is not required 

We do teach MANY stances and the deeper the better in forms and or training drills in the dojo (read: Leg strength), but we try not to be in the same place very long when striking for obvious reasons.

_"Kara-Ho I think is more built for the streets and would probably make you a better streetfighter than SKK."_  This is what Professor Chow intended.

Joe-  Did Sensei Jeff show you any 6-10's?  Those really show what the system is about and are some of the last techniques Professor Chow designed.

Cheers!


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## Mariachi Joe

Sensei Jeff was pretty sick and almost called the class off, when I asked him he told me they are the techniques you learn after BB, but he didn't feel up to showing me.  It's okay maybe next time.


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## dianhsuhe

What did he go over with you?   Did he give you an overview of a few of the techniques?

I hope you are well-


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## Mariachi Joe

He told me about two of the four principles.  He told me about the point just above the belly button that is our center.  He had us doing chi excersizes, which is what most of the night consisted of.  I like the emphasis on chi training in Kara-Ho since it's something I feel SKK lacks.


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## RevIV

Mariachi Joe said:


> He told me about two of the four principles. He told me about the point just above the belly button that is our center. He had us doing chi excersizes, which is what most of the night consisted of. I like the emphasis on chi training in Kara-Ho since it's something I feel SKK lacks.


 
interesting that you say above the belly button, because below it is your dantiam(sp)  and anatomically the center is below the belly button.  I could be completly off here, it is getting late.
In Peace
Jesse


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## shaolin ninja 4

Gufbal1982 said:


> I was talking to an FV instructor last night (high ranking master) and he said something about Professor Cerio laughing at them for wanting to return to the source...but that was after the first time USSD returned.


 
What did he say to Mattera? Was this for 9th degree? Did Mattera try to rejoin Nick Cerios? Did Mattera rip off Cerio?

We need to put the thread back on topic.


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## Gufbal1982

shaolin ninja 4 said:


> What did he say to Mattera? Was this for 9th degree? Did Mattera try to rejoin Nick Cerios? Did Mattera rip off Cerio?
> 
> We need to put the thread back on topic.



Um, he pretty much just laughed at him.  It had to do with 9th degree, seeing as Nick Cerio never promoted anyone past 8th degree.  As for the other things, I have to check my sources and find out for sure.


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## Danjo

shaolin ninja 4 said:


> What did he say to Mattera? Was this for 9th degree? Did Mattera try to rejoin Nick Cerios? Did Mattera rip off Cerio?
> 
> We need to put the thread back on topic.


 
There was no "Rip off" by Mattera. It was over some other issues that Cerio broke off ties. However, I'll not go into them on a public forum.


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## dianhsuhe

Sensei Jesse and Mariachi Joe-  It IS 2 inches below your navel, it is called your "one point".


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## RevIV

dianhsuhe said:


> Sensei Jesse and Mariachi Joe- It IS 2 inches below your navel, it is called your "one point".


 
Thank you very much, it was late and when i was teaching last night i almost second guessed myself after so many years when i was teaching it.  Man what the mind can do to you sometimes.
Jesse


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## Mariachi Joe

My mistake your right, it was just below not above.


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## Joe Shuras

shaolin ninja 4 said:


> Why did nick cerio cut ties with ussd?
> 
> Mattera got an 8th from him but after 1993 nick cerio cut ties with him.


 
Hello sir, Just to clear the air, I checked the thread and no one here knows why for fact. I spoke of it with one person on this thread last year but left it up to speculation nor did I give away who influenced Nick Cerio to leave. Cerio was contacted by a close friend who discussed the matter with him at length. I don't know the exact converation verbatim, that is why I know no one knows it here either. I know who spoke to him but it has to be kept confidential. It has nothing to do with the martial arts.

Yes, Cerio promoted him to 8th and has caught some flack for it. Whether anyone here likes Mr. Mattera or not, is irrelevant and as stated by the moderators, it is best to avoid the bashing. There are horror stories in all franchises and questionable instructors BUT there are also good, solid, hardworking people with a lot of talent who will go places. However, he was a 7th dan under Fred Villari for quite a long time, many years and certainly had the time in grade and then some for an 8th from Nick Cerio so I see no problem with that. What he got after that I have no knowledge of, other than what I read on the forums like everyone else - Joe


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