# Judo vs Jujitsu



## ljdevo

Apparently, years and years ago when the Japanese military/police were deciding which Martial style would be best to teach their recruits, they were torn between Judo and Jujitsu. So they gathered a bunch of Judo fighters, and a bunch of Jujitsu fighters and had a fight off. Apparently the Judo fighters won the overall competition by a huge advantage, stating in the goverments eyes that Judo was a more effective art the Jujitsu. 

Do you think this is true? Or do you think that it just depended on the fighters at the compotition, and the conditions on the day, etc? Taking into consideration that all the participating fighters were supposed to the the cream of their styles.


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## Tez3

Happy New Year! I think all our brains are probably at the moment probably thinking about things like how to get rid of the in laws and the hangover to really really wanting to start another argument over judo and jujitsu so soon.
 I think the police probably were given guns instead of trying to decide between the two styles.
:ultracool


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## Xue Sheng

All I will say is I use to train Jujitsu and I liked it and I have seen Judo and I like it, even considered training it more than once.

Look into Kano Jigoro and you might get more insight into an answer to your question


And I like this quote from Kano Jigoro



> Before and after practicing Judo or engaging in a match, opponents bow to each other. Bowing is an expression of gratitude and respect. In effect, you are thanking your opponent for giving you the opportunity to improve your technique.  ---Kano Jigoro


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## Steve

Do the police in Japan carry sidearms?  Maybe it's too many movies, but I thought they didn't routinely carry guns.

Anyhoo, I've read some really interesting accounts of this fateful day in 1886.  I couldn't put my fingers on the one I was looking for, but it's in the articles area of Judoinfo.com.  That website has everything.

Here's one I ran across this morning looking for the other one that's a pretty good read.  The author has something of a flair for telling a story.  http://www.furyu.com/archives/issue3/judo.html

My impression is that it's a part of a larger cycle.  Jujutsu was mired in tradition and flourish.  Kano cherrypicked the most effective techniques, focused on those with emphasis on practicality and then began teaching a streamlined, leaner system.  It's not a statement of how effective the techniques were/are, more a testament to training philosophy.    That's my lay interpretation, at least.


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## arnisador

Don't the Tokyo police use an Aikido variant?


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## Tez3

stevebjj said:


> Do the police in Japan carry sidearms? Maybe it's too many movies, but I thought they didn't routinely carry guns.
> 
> Anyhoo, I've read some really interesting accounts of this fateful day in 1886. I couldn't put my fingers on the one I was looking for, but it's in the articles area of Judoinfo.com. That website has everything.
> 
> Here's one I ran across this morning looking for the other one that's a pretty good read. The author has something of a flair for telling a story. http://www.furyu.com/archives/issue3/judo.html
> 
> My impression is that it's a part of a larger cycle. Jujutsu was mired in tradition and flourish. Kano cherrypicked the most effective techniques, focused on those with emphasis on practicality and then began teaching a streamlined, leaner system. It's not a statement of how effective the techniques were/are, more a testament to training philosophy. That's my lay interpretation, at least.


 

I have no idea whether they carry guns or not but I may just take a gun to myself if we have to have another judo v juijitsu thread or anything v anything for that matter.


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## Steve

Tez3 said:


> I have no idea whether they carry guns or not but I may just take a gun to myself if we have to have another judo v juijitsu thread or anything v anything for that matter.


Okay.  Good point!    But read that article I linked to.  It's a good story!


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## Andy Moynihan

Judo AND jujitsu, There is no one who studies the one that cannot benefit from the other.


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## JadecloudAlchemist

To answer the question depends on the fighter.

I don't know what ryu-ha of Jujutsu went up against the Kodokan but

The Kodokan had quite some famous masters of the different Jujutsu schools share some techniques.

The Police in Japan do carry guns as well as a Jo.

As far as I am aware of the unarm tactics used by the police was Taihojutsu but I think they train in Judo.


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## seasoned

Tez3 said:


> Happy New Year! I think all our brains are probably at the moment probably thinking about things like how to get rid of the in laws and the hangover to really really wanting to start another argument over judo and jujitsu so soon.
> I think the police probably were given guns instead of trying to decide between the two styles.
> :ultracool


 
Excellent, I definitely like you thinking, but do they also carry knives?? :asian:


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## Tez3

seasoned said:


> Excellent, I definitely like you thinking, but do they also carry knives?? :asian:


 

They could be like me and reserve the right to make cutting remarks lol!


We could have a discussion on what types of martial arts if any various police forces use around the world? I'd rather not have another X style v Y style argument though!
steve, agreed an interesting article!


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## Steve

I don't think that there is any one style of MA universally endorsed by the police here in the States.  I know many cops train BJJ and MMA here, but there are also police who train in other styles.

One of the assistants at my school is a brown belt in BJJ and Seattle PD.  He teaches the beginner's MMA class as well as some of the BJJ classes.  It's interesting how a cop will approach the same subject in a very different way than our main coach, who is primarily a BJJ guy.  The difference in mindset is huge.


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## Steve

Tez3 said:


> They could be like me and reserve the right to make cutting remarks lol!
> 
> 
> We could have a discussion on what types of martial arts if any various police forces use around the world? I'd rather not have another X style v Y style argument though!
> steve, agreed an interesting article!


  Glad you read it.  I got a kick out of the guy's storytelling.  He really tried to bring that day to life, in my opinion.


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## arnisador

Th advantage of Judo is also its weakness: As a sport, some useful techniques are outlawed, but those that are legal are practiced constantly against a resisting opponent so that the practitioner learns to _really _make them work!


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## matt.m

Great question,

I will try and answer as informatively as I can.  First of all Judo is the little brother of Japanese Jiujitsu.  Hapkido and JJ are quite similiar.  You cannot make hapkido a competition.  It is a killing art, period end of story.

On the flip, hard core kodokan judo is just that.  My father, a sixth dan in hapkido said it best.   "Back when I began a 2nd dan in Judo was someone to be scared of."

Competition and the Olympics followed by the "Dumbing down"  of what is acceptable for technique followed by lack of hard core training gives Judo a bit of a sore eye.

Consider this: "Judo had a reigning stint of popularity that Tae Kwon Do is now receiving.  Judo had this popularity for over 100 years."  Honestly, I have had a lot of students come to class and quit because it was hard so to speak.

In all fairness when getting into a fight it all comes down to one thing, that is conviction.  If you don't have strong convictions and aren't committed to winning in combat you will lose before you begin.

Another piece is that in combat it doesn't matter the style.  No, indeed it all comes down to who knows their art better.  Goes along with the first point for reinforcement.  I learned in the Marine Corps from being in combat several times the following: "In competition there are rules.  In a fight there is no such thing as fair and no one cares "What style you are doing." It only matters if you live through the conflict.



ljdevo said:


> Apparently, years and years ago when the Japanese military/police were deciding which Martial style would be best to teach their recruits, they were torn between Judo and Jujitsu. So they gathered a bunch of Judo fighters, and a bunch of Jujitsu fighters and had a fight off. Apparently the Judo fighters won the overall competition by a huge advantage, stating in the goverments eyes that Judo was a more effective art the Jujitsu.
> 
> Do you think this is true? Or do you think that it just depended on the fighters at the compotition, and the conditions on the day, etc? Taking into consideration that all the participating fighters were supposed to the the cream of their styles.


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## matt.m

Couldn't have said it better myself.



arnisador said:


> Th advantage of Judo is also its weakness: As a sport, some useful techniques are outlawed, but those that are legal are practiced constantly against a resisting opponent so that the practitioner learns to _really _make them work!


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## Tez3

matt.m said:


> Great question,
> 
> I will try and answer as informatively as I can. First of all Judo is the little brother of Japanese Jiujitsu. Hapkido and JJ are quite similiar. You cannot make hapkido a competition. It is a killing art, period end of story.
> 
> On the flip, hard core kodokan judo is just that. My father, a sixth dan in hapkido said it best. *"Back when I began a 2nd dan in Judo was someone to be scared of."*
> 
> Competition and the Olympics followed by the "Dumbing down" of what is acceptable for technique followed by lack of hard core training gives Judo a bit of a sore eye.
> 
> Consider this: "Judo had a reigning stint of popularity that Tae Kwon Do is now receiving. Judo had this popularity for over 100 years." Honestly, I have had a lot of students come to class and quit because it was hard so to speak.
> 
> In all fairness when getting into a fight it all comes down to one thing, that is conviction. If you don't have strong convictions and aren't committed to winning in combat you will lose before you begin.
> 
> Another piece is that in combat it doesn't matter the style. No, indeed it all comes down to who knows their art better. Goes along with the first point for reinforcement. I learned in the Marine Corps from being in combat several times the following: "In competition there are rules. In a fight there is no such thing as fair and no one cares "What style you are doing." It only matters if you live through the conflict.


 

That's about when my instructor was a Judo Dan, he comes up with some very vicious things he says are from 'old' Judo!


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## suicide

i always wanted to take jujitsu but for some reason never got a chance to do it i ran into a  judoka and he invited me down to his dojo i ended up doing judo for a year and half three nights a week and also did randori 3 nights a week i loved every second of it ' the work out was the best - the teachers sister was a yoga instructor and sometimes after class we would do some yoga for relaxation if i get a chance im a start it up again :BSmeter:


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## fightingpower

Woo Hoo i agree.  I am a Judoka and am about to embark upon a Jujitsu journey I will let you all know what I think.  I am hoping that Jujitsu will give me some dissarmament techniques that Judo does not have to offer!



Andy Moynihan said:


> Judo AND jujitsu, There is no one who studies the one that cannot benefit from the other.


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## lklawson

fightingpower said:


> I am hoping that Jujitsu will give me some dissarmament techniques that Judo does not have to offer!


Like knife and gun disarms?

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## fightingpower

Yea as opposed to carrying them.  By the way I also think that there is about a 99.9 percent chance of actually using these dissarms effectively!


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## fightingpower

Sorry that was supposed to be not using them effectively!!!!!


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## jarrod

i went the opposite route, starting out in jujitsu then adding judo.  it was really nice after a couple of years to have other ways to get people to the ground besides my sloppy wrestling shots.  

nothing feels better than the the nice thump of a well executed throw during randori.  provided your on the giving end, that is.

jf


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## lklawson

jarrod said:


> i went the opposite route, starting out in jujitsu then adding judo.


I went from Aikido to Judo with some C&E on the side (as well as several other Western Martial Arts).

I now believe that no one should be allowed to train in Aikido without having at least one year of Judo first.

Not that anyone listens to me, of course.  

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## lklawson

fightingpower said:


> Sorry that was supposed to be not using them effectively!!!!!


I don't have a high opinion of unarmed vs. weapon disarms. It's not that I think there's a 99.9% chance that the average practicioner will fail to use them effectively, I think there's a 99.9% chance that the disarms learned are not founded on reality (such as telegraphed thrusts from the rear, etc.).

The best I can say for almost every disarm I've ever learned (and there are a ton of them) or seen (even more) is that they're better than crying like a little girl and crapping my pants.

Unarmed against a weapon is what you do because you were caught naked in the shower. 

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## jarrod

lklawson said:


> Unarmed against a weapon is what you do because you were caught naked in the shower.



what, you don't have a shampoo bottle you can wing at the guy?  

oh, sorry, just saw your head...:roflmao:

just teasing ya

jf


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## lklawson

jarrod said:


> what, you don't have a shampoo bottle you can wing at the guy?
> 
> oh, sorry, just saw your head...:roflmao:


Soap-on-a-Rope.  I use Slung-Shot technique but I suppose an eastern based Martial Artist could use Rope Dart or Manriki.  



> just teasing ya


I've been getting good natured ribbing about my selection of hair style for ages.  My favorite came from my late Irish imigrant Preacher, Jack.  He regaled me with remembrances of military booted skin-head gangers in Ireland from his youth.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## fightingpower

I am also going bald slowly at 28 , I am sure its a sign of M Arts excellence!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Agreed with pants down approach to weapons defence.  

Better to know something than nothing at all.


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## Jujutsu_Man

arnisador said:


> Don't the Tokyo police use an Aikido variant?


 Yes now they use Yoshinkan Aikido I believe.


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## b.monki

japanese jujitsu doesnt do enough randori... back in the hay day of is jujitsu better then judo or judo is better then jujitsu okazaki and kanos school battled it out and kanos school owned okazakis school but then okazaki realized it was the way they trained so he trained his students in judo and the way they trained and at the rematch okazakis school owned kanos school so to answer the question, jujitsu + judo beats judo or jujitsu alone... its best to train both side by side they compliment eachother so well... at wally jays school back in the day he trained DZR, his style of small circle jujitsu (which is dzr with some boxing, karate, and kung fu added and some other stuff cant remember) along side of judo... judo should be considered like the safe way to practice jujitsu and make a game out of it that'll boost your confidence make you stronger and get technique down pat...


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