# Marketing a "weapons based" martial art...



## Cruentus (Aug 11, 2003)

I was just thinking of adding marketing value to FMA, and weapons-based systems. I thinking that just simply looking at the statistics makes the case enough for weapons based training. The statistics are kind of all over the place when trying to find info on weapon use in crimes, but here is the "jist" of some interesting stuff I gathered from the Bureau of Justice Statistics:

- Close to 100% of all murders involve a weapon.
- about 1 out of 3 violent crimes involve a weapon.
- about 2/3 of weapon-based crimes involve something other then a firearm.

So, if someone is going to be murdered, it will most likely be with a weapon.

There is a good chance that a weapon will be involved also, if your attacked at all. These chances greaten or lessen depending on who you are/ and your lifestyle. So consider that violent crimes also include child abuse, domestic violence, and date rape where weapons are most likely to not be involved make up a large % of these crimes. In other words, if your a happily married male/female (for instance), your not suseptipal to domestic violence, child abuse, or "date rape" (your married so you aren't dating), then the chances of a weapon being involved if you are ever victimized is much greater.

Also, most of these weapons that are involved are not firearms, so this brings further value to learning how to handle edged and non-edged weapons, because if you are victimized by a weapon it most likely will not be a gun.

Just some food for thought. Use it if you'd like!


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## stickarts (Aug 11, 2003)

while our stick fighting group is very dedicated, it only makes up about 10% of our overall enrollment in the school. Perhaps communicating those stats will help add some appeal to the weapons program! thanks for the post!


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## Phil Elmore (Aug 11, 2003)

Unfortunately, no amount of statistics or persuasion will shake people out of their complacency.  Even in states that allow law-abiding citizens to carry firearms for persona defense -- arguably the ultimate "weapon art" in modern society -- only about five percent of the population takes advantage of such freedom.

People have a very, very hard time taking responsibility for the defense of themselves and their families.  Even among "martial" artists, _hoplophobia_ -- the irrational fear of weapons -- is rampant.


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## Dan Anderson (Aug 11, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Sharp Phil _
> *Unfortunately, no amount of statistics or persuasion will shake people out of their complacency.  *



Give Sharp Phil a prize!  Is that ever the truth!  After 911 I thought people would wake up.  No.  They just went deeper into apathy instead of recognizing a need for change.  Unbelievable!
 

Yours,
Dan Anderson


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## Cruentus (Aug 11, 2003)

"Manufactured consent" at it's worse. Don't worry about defending yourself, cause if ya "worry" then "they" have won. Now....go to the store and buy yourself something!  

I think Phil is absolutely correct, however people do go to a martial arts school expecting to learn "self defense." To me, considering that there is always a weapon around for you to use, and the likelyhood that an attacker will have a weapon is great, to not have a weapons program in a school that preaches self defense violates "good sense" to me.

If instructors who do not teach a weapon based system could only understand this, then they would bring someone in who is qualified to teach weapons, and incorperate it into their program.

One can only be idealistic.....


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## stickarts (Aug 11, 2003)

Yes, several months after 911 we had an inflow of concerned people. We even had a reporter come out to interview us about it,  but it all seems to have settled back to normal again.


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## Tgace (Aug 11, 2003)

Some of the most common weapons in domestic assaults are plates, bottles, cans (beer), ashtrays and telephones that one party threw at another and managed to draw blood... 

Heres a tip, never start a fight with the wife while in the kitchen.


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## Cruentus (Aug 11, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Tgace _
> *
> 
> Heres a tip, never start a fight with the wife while in the kitchen.  *



LOL


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## Tgace (Aug 11, 2003)

Also remember these statistics include such mental-giants as this guy in my town..during the course of an argument his wife says "im gonna kill you!" , he gives her his .380 auto and says "Go ahead b!%#c!" so she shoots him in the leg. She then drives them bolth to the hospital.  

While Im all for teaching people how to physically protect themselves, I think the public would be better served if they took classes in how to get their heads out of their @$$ and use some common sense. Youd be shocked to know how many silly stories like this end in tragedy.


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## stickarts (Aug 11, 2003)

one of the more recent crazy stories i heard from my student who is a prosecutor was a guy and his wife got in an argument over where to go for dinner so the guy punches his wife in the nose, breaking her nose! wow.


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## Cruentus (Aug 11, 2003)

Dude...your funny.

Heads out of their @$$es...heh.:lol:


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## Tgace (Aug 11, 2003)

I contend that if you could really look at all the people involved in the cases in the NIJ/FBI stats you would see that while some are your "average joe/jane" types that are the classic innocent victim, abused spouse etc...you would find that a LARGE section of them could find a home on the Springer Show....not that that makes them less of people, or undeserving of justice, dont get me wrong, but I think you get my point.


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## Cruentus (Aug 11, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Tgace _
> *I contend that if you could really look at all the people involved in the cases in the NIJ/FBI stats you would see that while some are your "average joe/jane" types that are the classic innocent victim, abused spouse etc...you would find that a LARGE section of them could find a home on the Springer Show....not that that makes them less of people, or undeserving of justice, dont get me wrong, but I think you get my point. *



I am totally sure. I would guess that most of the people who get into violent situations are asking for it. Their own behavior escalates situations to violence, when most "normal" people wouldn't even be in these situations.

I conject then that if you are assulted, and if you aren't a springer canidate, then you are even MORE likely to be assulted with a weapon. If you are a "normal person" then you won't be in a situation where you have to fist fight with your wife, or at the bar. The situation you will be in won't be mutual; it will be a preditor trying to take advantage of you, and he will be prepared and you won't be, and he will be armed. Whether you are armed or not will depend on you, but more often then not you will have something accessable to you that can be used as a weapon, even if you don't carry one yourself.

Unfortunatily, this is only my theory; we can't seperate the Springer canidates from the statistics. I do conject that if you aren't a springer canidate, however, "self defense" training for you needs to involve weapon training. Period.


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## arnisandyz (Aug 11, 2003)

Marketing the use of weapons in self-defense is difficult.  All of the people in my class have somehow found me, rather than me looking for them or convincing people. I did do flyers just to let people know where we are, but ultimately the decision is thiers.

Not to knock other arts, but I think many people take up empty hand arts so they don't have to use weapons!  They are counting on the empty hand arts to make themselves the deadly "weapon" and live in that dreamworld.  I also believe people think its"un-civilized" or "barbaric" to train to use weapons on another human being (even if that "human being" is trying to kill you). I used to teach Arnis in my friends TKD school and was showing blade on emptyhand knife tapping. Some TKD students thought it was "cool"...I was teaching knife defense!! But when I explained although the empty hand person is getting some training, the guy with the knife is getting more training to learn how to cut, clear obstructions, etc. they gave me a strange look.


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## arnisandyz (Aug 11, 2003)

Also, when they finally Do get introduced to weapons it isn't for defensive purposes, but to win a big trophy! One time I was watching a Karate school practicing single stick and it was awful.  I very politely introduced myself to the owner, explained my style, gave my credentials. He was very nice and we talked for a long time. I offered to do a free seminar, but was quickly declined.  Either he was trying to shield his students from the truth, or I really do suck that bad!

Disclaimer:  not refering to ALL traditional schools, there are some good ones out there, just the majority of McDojos Ive witnessed.


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## Pappy Geo (Aug 12, 2003)

> There is a good chance that a weapon will be involved



Well, Paul, we in Modern Arnis are all trained in a variety of weapons whether we know it or not. If you have the stick lines and the foot work, you have the knife, Kerambit, empty hand, ball-point pen, all kinds of environmental weapons, just different ranges and shorter or longer strikes. That's the beauty of Modern Arnis. Long term training ultimately gives you the confidence to address a volatile situation, short training could get you in trouble with over confidence. training long enough to be instinctive is an important key. Takes balls to face a deadly situation face on. Not every one has that.

To beat a woman or take advantage of helpless older folks, or kids is a disgrace to the human race. Weapons especially edged or guns gives degenerates a big ego and confidence to confront someone, but again it takes something again to actually pull the trigger, that hesitation could give us, that are trained, the edge to neutralize and subdue with instinctive reactions.

I will bet the normal law abiding citizen that packs a gun can't pull the trigger and take a life, even if the fear factor is high. They tend to freeze up.

So what good does it to pack if you are unable to pull the trigger? 

What do you think?

Tito Pappy Geo


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## Senfeng (Aug 12, 2003)

> _Originally posted by PAUL _
> *I was just thinking of adding marketing value to FMA, and weapons-based systems. I thinking that just simply looking at the statistics makes the case enough for weapons based training. The statistics are kind of all over the place when trying to find info on weapon use in crimes, but here is the "jist" of some interesting stuff I gathered from the Bureau of Justice Statistics:
> 
> - Close to 100% of all murders involve a weapon.
> ...


 If you are seriously talking about making a martial art *Marketable* I would do it some other way than by saying that _weapons kill_.  I'm just taking this from a marketing standpoint.  If you really want to market your MA you want show people something that they will enjoy.  

Tell your potential clients, "You will enjoy taking this class because... <fill in reasons here>".  Or "This Martial Art will benefit you in the following ways<list reasons here>".  Then you can tell them about self defense.  Maybe you can market the art by showing the beauty of the art and its health benefits.

Again, this is just from the marketting view point.  If you were not serious about this being a marketting venture, just ignore my post.


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## Cruentus (Aug 12, 2003)

Pappa Geo: 





> Well, Paul, we in Modern Arnis are all trained in a variety of weapons whether we know it or not.



Absolutely! That is why I think that Modern Arnis is a great self defense system!

And in terms of "pulling the trigger," I agree with you also. Many people who carry a weapon of some sort aren't prepared to use it. This includes the executive with a gun, or even the female with the can of pepper spray. This is another reason why people should train in weapon-based systems. You learn your limitations and strengths, and it causes you to think about what you would be prepared to do, and what you wouldn't be prepared to do.

Senfeng: Yes, I am serious about "marketability" here, and I do understand what you are saying. The 1st rule in marketing is you must show the VALUE of your product. I agree that there are other benefits to a Martial Art that should be addressed also. I agree that the potential student should be shown that martial arts are enjoyable. These all bring value to the "product". However, bear in mind that people can take up an intermural sport, or golf, or hiking, or yoga, or some other passtime/activity and achieve many of the same benefits. People generally choose to study a martial art because they like the added benefit of learning "self defense," while getting all the other benefits of enjoyment, good health, etc. as well.

You see, "self defense" brings "value" to Martial Arts also, and it is something that other passtimes can't offer. When you show that "self-defense" isn't really self defense at all unless weapons training is involved, you have just further seperated yourself from most other "schools," by bringing even more value to the table.

So, use it!  I'm not saying it's a marketing end-all, but I am saying that if you teach a weapon-based system, it may help.

:asian:


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