# Documentation for "The Lost Art of Tang Soo Do



## puunui (Mar 4, 2011)

Mr. Kedrowski, in your book, The Lost Art of Tang Soo Do, you wrote:

"Also, according to Lee Won Kuk, Hwang Kee was an early student of the Chung Do Kwan. Another early student, Hyun Jong Myung worked with Hwang at the Seoul railroad station and they would work out together. According to Lee, Hwang had some background in the martial arts before he joined the Chung Do Kwan, but did not have any Karate experience. Hwang received the rank of 6th gup, as a Chung Do Kwan member before opening up his own dojang on November 9, 1945." 

What or where is your documentation for this information? I ask you because the information looks almost verbatim like some posts I submitted to the taekwondo net mailing list (with some changes), based on conversations that I had with GM LEE Won Kuk and others. As far as I know, no one has stated these things except me. Why is it somehow ok for you to quote me in your book regarding things GM Lee said (without stating the source or your documentation for said information, by the way), but when I do the same thing here, repeat what GM LEE told me, you claim a lack of documentation? 

But first things first. What or where is the documentation for the passage from your book quoted above?


----------



## Makalakumu (Mar 5, 2011)

puunui said:


> Mr. Kedrowski, in your book, The Lost Art of Tang Soo Do, you wrote:
> 
> "Also, according to Lee Won Kuk, Hwang Kee was an early student of the Chung Do Kwan. Another early student, Hyun Jong Myung worked with Hwang at the Seoul railroad station and they would work out together. According to Lee, Hwang had some background in the martial arts before he joined the Chung Do Kwan, but did not have any Karate experience. Hwang received the rank of 6th gup, as a Chung Do Kwan member before opening up his own dojang on November 9, 1945."
> 
> What or where is your documentation for this information? I ask you because the information looks almost verbatim like some posts I submitted to the taekwondo net mailing list (with some changes), based on conversations that I had with GM LEE Won Kuk and others. *As far as I know, no one has stated these things except me.*



Your quote starts on the second sentence of the paragraph in question.  The first sentence reads, "according to an interview given from Lee Won Kuk by _Academia Italiana Tang Soo Do_, the Moo Duk Kwan began using the name Tang soo Do while he was still in exile after his trial.  Also, according to Lee..."

The citation is right in the first sentence.  After rechecking the source however, I can't find the quote I was referring to.  Therefore, if I made a mistake here, then I own it.  This is one of the reasons I need to write a 2nd edition and it's one of the reasons I contacted you by PM to settle this.

As far as this information belonging to you, I took the sentences I wrote and Googled them because you refuse to provide me with the original or your identity after I asked four times.  I came up with this.

http://www.worldlingo.com/ma/enwiki/en/Chung_Do_Kwan



> According to GM LEE Won Kuk, GM Hwang Kee was an early student of the  Chung Do Kwan. Another early student, GM HYUN Jong Myung worked with GM  Hwang at the Seoul railroad station and they would work out together.  According to GM Lee, GM Hwang had some background in the martial arts  before he joined the Chung Do Kwan, but did not have any Karate  experience. GM Hwang received the rank of 6th Guep, White Belt as a  Chung Do Kwan member before opening up his own dojang on November, 9th  1945. GM HWANG Kee's school eventually became known as the Moo Duk Kwan.


This is embarrassingly close to my sentence and has now been placed on my growing list of corrections.  Did you write this?  How many other people know this?  How do I know that you are the source of the information?  If you are the source, I'd love to give you credit, but I need to verify it.  If you can't do that and this information is all over the place, I don't see how you can continue to claim it.  

I'm willing to claim my mistakes and try and fix them, but now the ball is your court as it has been since the first time that I asked you...privately.  If you refuse to do this again, I'll simply remove it for the second edition.  It's not that important to the thesis of my book.


----------



## Makalakumu (Mar 5, 2011)

If you are concerned about revealing your identity, this conversation can be converted back to PM.  It's where it started, it's where it belongs, and it's the only place I will continue it.


----------



## puunui (Mar 7, 2011)

maunakumu said:


> http://www.worldlingo.com/ma/enwiki/en/Chung_Do_Kwan
> 
> This is embarrassingly close to my sentence and has now been placed on my growing list of corrections.  Did you write this?  How many other people know this?  How do I know that you are the source of the information?



The information came from a series of posts that were written by me for the taekwondo net mailing list, which is not a webpage. The people who read my stuff know it, including many on MT. Because I told you repeatedly.


----------



## jks9199 (Mar 7, 2011)

Folks,
This certainly appears to be an issue to be addressed through PM rather than some sort of public verbal brawl.  If you receive PMs with content that you feel is in violation of the rules, you can RTM them just like a post.


----------



## JWLuiza (Mar 7, 2011)

The information other than gup rank is also mentioned in Glenn Jones' book "Korean Martial Arts Handbook" page 111-112. His source for info is not cited.


----------



## Makalakumu (Mar 12, 2011)

JWLuiza said:


> The information other than gup rank is also mentioned in Glenn Jones' book "Korean Martial Arts Handbook" page 111-112. His source for info is not cited.



It traces back to Wikipedia.  One of my research methods was to pull together notes from various places on the web and then cross reference all of the sources.  Somehow this one slipped through.  I think it was misattributed originally, I'm not sure.  I had ten beta readers and we all missed it.


----------



## Makalakumu (Nov 13, 2012)

puunui said:


> The information came from a series of posts that were written by me for the taekwondo net mailing list, which is not a webpage. The people who read my stuff know it, including many on MT. Because I told you repeatedly.



After much research on my part, I have been unable to attribute this quote to this particular person.  I have asked repeatedly for verification from multiple sources and the particular quote in question hasn't been attributable to any verifiable source.  Alas, the 2nd edition beckons...


----------



## Montecarlodrag (Nov 15, 2012)

If GM LEE Won Kuk himself told that, there is no proof.
Even if it is true it doesn't mean anything, what would be the point of that Mr. Makalakumu? are you going to delete that part from your book?


----------



## Makalakumu (Nov 15, 2012)

Montecarlodrag said:


> If GM LEE Won Kuk himself told that, there is no proof.
> Even if it is true it doesn't mean anything, what would be the point of that Mr. Makalakumu? are you going to delete that part from your book?



The short answer is yes. I would like to have correctly attributed it, however.


----------



## rick_tsdmdk (Aug 21, 2013)

So really, there is no documentation of any sort for this - it is just a random sentence grabbed from some unknown internet source?


----------



## Makalakumu (Aug 21, 2013)

rick_tsdmdk said:


> So really, there is no documentation of any sort for this - it is just a random sentence grabbed from some unknown internet source?



There is no definitive source that I can claim and in the second edition, I'm going to remove it.


----------

