# Calmness and activity?



## Carol (Mar 28, 2007)

This is a Zen quote from Daisetz Teitaro Suzuki (1870-1966)



> We say, "In calmness there should be activity; ' in activity there should be calmness."  Actually, they are the same thing;  to say "calmness" or to say "activity"  is just to express different interpretations  of one fact. There is harmony in our activity,  and where there is harmony there is calmness.



Do you find this to be true?  There are certainly some activities in my life where I can be very busy and encumbered, yet calm because they are, as Suzuki-san says, quite harmonious.

However, I see other activities in my life that are fraught with dischord.  I can't see the harmony, or the balance. 

What do you think of Suzuki-san's quote?


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## Gary Crawford (Mar 28, 2007)

Carol, I have to agree with the statement, there is calmness in activity, but I thing he is refering to "reasonably controled" activity. It is when contol is lost that we have little or no "calmness"


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## Touch Of Death (Mar 28, 2007)

The word "good" in the bible is usualy better served by the word Harmonious.
Sean


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## bushidomartialarts (Mar 28, 2007)

what i find is, the more demading the activity the more calmness i find.

kata, for instance.  if i do it right, it demands so much of my attention that my mind can't wander.  i remain calm because there's no room for thoughts that would derail calm.

a busy workday, even when stressful, can become a sort of zen experience as you ride the wave of events clear through end of shift.  but give me a slow workday and man, i feel exhausted.


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## Gary Crawford (Mar 28, 2007)

I am sure Suzuki wasn't considering gender when he wrote this!! lol


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## Tames D (Mar 28, 2007)

Would you say that it is a mind control thing? I tend to think so.


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## Carol (Mar 28, 2007)

Gary Crawford said:


> I am sure Suzuki wasn't considering gender when he wrote this!! lol



No, he's too contemporary.  However, before the teachings of Buddha Amitabha spread through Japan, Buddhism was strictly for men born in to proper social castes.


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## Carol (Mar 28, 2007)

QUI-GON said:


> Would you say that it is a mind control thing? I tend to think so.



Mind control, or perhaps control in general.  

I'm at home from work this evening, out sick with bronchitis.  Even though I don't have anything to do exept to lay back and post on MT (and take my antiboitics), I still feel stressed.  I have things to do that I can't do, even though I want to.

On the other hand, I can think of a time just recently where things at work were going to hell in a handbasket, yet I was enjoying every minute because there was so much to do and new things to learn.


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## Steel Tiger (Mar 28, 2007)

Carol Kaur said:


> Mind control, or perhaps control in general.
> 
> I'm at home from work this evening, out sick with bronchitis. Even though I don't have anything to do exept to lay back and post on MT (and take my antiboitics), I still feel stressed. I have things to do that I can't do, even though I want to.
> 
> On the other hand, I can think of a time just recently where things at work were going to hell in a handbasket, yet I was enjoying every minute because there was so much to do and new things to learn.


 
I don't think is a control thing.  Control suggests taming something that is fractious, Suzuki-san is quite clear it is harmony.  Harmony and control are not the same.  I think it is more complex than just control, whether it be mind, body, or whatever. 

In Daoist philosophy there are these things called the ways of being or doing.  The first is that of necessity, the second that of justice, the third that of compassion, and the last is that of the Dao.  The implication is that when one is doing things in the manner of the Dao one is in harmony (with oneself, the universe, etc) and everything is good and everything works.  The other modes indicate that you can do things but it won't necessarily feel right.

I'm not sure I'm making sense here.


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## Carol (Mar 28, 2007)

So...if one is being/doing in the way of the Dao, the other ways are there automatically?

One can do something that one feels is necessary that isn't just, or compassionate, or consistent with the way of the Dao.  

However, if one does something consistent with the way of the Dao, it will also be compassionate, just, and feel necessary to do.

Am I following you?


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## Steel Tiger (Mar 28, 2007)

Carol Kaur said:


> So...if one is being/doing in the way of the Dao, the other ways are there automatically?
> 
> One can do something that one feels is necessary that isn't just, or compassionate, or consistent with the way of the Dao.
> 
> ...


 
That's pretty close, if one is acting in the manner of the Dao it may look a lot like one of the other modes, or it may seem quite contrary to them.  

The ways of being/doing are considered gradations relative to how one interacts with others.  Anybody can do what is necessary.  It is better to be just than to do what is necessary; it is better to be compassionate than to be just; it is better to be one with the Dao than to be compassionate.

But in all this one has to remember, "He who speaks does not know, he who knows does not speak."


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## bushidomartialarts (Mar 29, 2007)

control indicates effort.  part of the calmness is a feeling of effortlessness.  

to control is to struggle.  taoism generally recommends against struggling.


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## Steel Tiger (Mar 29, 2007)

bushidomartialarts said:


> control indicates effort. part of the calmness is a feeling of effortlessness.
> 
> to control is to struggle. taoism generally recommends against struggling.


 
Yes!!  That's it.  The idea of effortless action.  The concept of Wu Wei, doing without _doing.  _There are some very nice Daoist poems about this sort of thing (have a look at works by Tu Fu).  It is associated with the Buddhist concept of action without attachment.


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## Carol (Mar 29, 2007)

Steel Tiger said:


> Yes!!  That's it.  The idea of effortless action.  The concept of Wu Wei, doing without _doing.  _There are some very nice Daoist poems about this sort of thing (have a look at works by Tu Fu).  It is associated with the Buddhist concept of action without attachment.



AHHHHH!  Now I'm understanding more. :asian:


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## Steel Tiger (Mar 29, 2007)

Carol Kaur said:


> AHHHHH! Now I'm understanding more. :asian:


 
The poet I should have named was Li Po not Tu Fu (always get them mixed up).  Anyway, there is a particularly good poem by Li Po about Wu Wei, it is called "Looking For A Monk And Not Finding Him".


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## Bigshadow (Mar 29, 2007)

Carol Kaur said:


> This is a Zen quote from Daisetz Teitaro Suzuki (1870-1966)
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I think it is a great quote! This is the first I have heard of him.  Although, I understand what he means!  I totally agree. The way I interpret it is, calmness is "without tension".  There are many things that causes tension, such as when things are not in harmony with each other.  It causes disruption, static, chaos, and there is no harmony.  

Great question!   Thanks for the quote!


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## Carol (Mar 29, 2007)

Bigshadow said:


> I think it is a great quote! This is the first I have heard of him.  Although, I understand what he means!  I totally agree. The way I interpret it is, calmness is "without tension".  There are many things that causes tension, such as when things are not in harmony with each other.  It causes disruption, static, chaos, and there is no harmony.
> 
> Great question!   Thanks for the quote!



You are very welcome!  Thanks for the feedback!  

Suzuki-san was a poet that really shined at translating old (usually holy) texts between Chinese and Japanese, and ancient and modern dialects.  I like his work because he had such a vivid way of writing that, even when translated in to English, you can still see the picture he tries to paint.


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## Bigshadow (Mar 29, 2007)

It is ironic how there is this common thread(s) that runs through all these texts (reflecting on "The Unfettered Mind", some of Soke Hatsumi's quotes in UGP, The Book of Five Rings, and several other books I have read) and to actually have some level of understanding what is meant when I read it is just simply amazing.


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## Steel Tiger (Mar 29, 2007)

Bigshadow said:


> It is ironic how there is this common thread(s) that runs through all these texts (reflecting on "The Unfettered Mind", some of Soke Hatsumi's quotes in UGP, The Book of Five Rings, and several other books I have read) and to actually have some level of understanding what is meant when I read it is just simply amazing.


 
It's really cool to be able to say, "I kinda understand that."


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## Bigshadow (Mar 30, 2007)

Steel Tiger said:


> It's really cool to be able to say, "I kinda understand that."



I have also noticed that what we think we understand is only temporary.  It seems to constantly evolve.  Alot like what it must have felt like when humans discoved that the world was NOT flat and that there was more to it than they thought they understood.  This type of discovery continually happens as we progress along the path.  It is very incremental.


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