# Martial Arts School Insurance Questions



## Makalakumu (Jul 2, 2006)

I've got a couple of questions for my fellow studio owners...

1.  Do you have insurance for your school?
2.  If so, how did you obtain the policy?
3.  How much does it cost?
4.  What kind of schools would you recommend get policies?

upnorthkyosa


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## tshadowchaser (Jul 2, 2006)

may I add:

what companies represent you 
what dose your policy cover and what is not covered


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## Makalakumu (Jul 5, 2006)

tshadowchaser said:
			
		

> may I add:
> 
> what companies represent you
> what dose your policy cover and what is not covered


 
Those are great questions.  So, other school owners, what do you do?


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## HKphooey (Jul 5, 2006)

upnorthkyosa said:
			
		

> I've got a couple of questions for my fellow studio owners...
> 
> 1. Do you have insurance for your school?
> 2. If so, how did you obtain the policy?
> ...


 
First off, I no longer run or own a school, but do advise school owners on marketing and business programs.

1. The school I train at does offer insurance.

2. Most business insurance companies offer sports/fitness liablity coverage.  Some even offer specific martial arts school insurance. Check our local yellow pages and shop around.  Also see if your current home owners insurance company offers a business plan. They may give you a discounted rate.

3. Cost vary depending on size of school, amount of coverage, student count, financial rating, doe you own or rent the property (would you be including property insurance), region of the country and style.  The style you teach can dramatically increase your rate.  Ex. Tai Chi school may be considerably less than MMA school.  I have seen rates from $650-2000.  Some charge a flat rate and then an additional per student charge ($8-20).  

4. Every business should have insurance, especially a martial arts school.  The question may be better phrased, "How much coverage do I need?"  If you have see your school have its issues with injured students.  Do you offer sparring classes? Do you host competitions or seminars where outsiders may attend (your students and friends may not sue, but outsiders may)?  Do you have a staff?  Rememeber your insurance can cover other issues like sexual assualt suits against your staff.

Also, I always advise business owners to establish a LLC company.  By doing so you protect your home and other assests outside the school.  

Additional questions:  

_what companies represent you?_
Just check the yellow pages for some of the local and reputable companies.  A search online may also offer some specialized coverage.

_what dose your policy cover and what is not covered?_
As I stated in question # 3, you policy depends on so many variables.  Usually injuries sustained on the property would be covered (whether you own it or not).  Some will cover legal issues that arise from lawsuits surrounding sexual assualt by staff.  Think of your school insurance as you would when shopping for home, auto or life insurance.

Be sure to read any policy very carefully!!!!  Some put provisons in for full contact and sparring schools.  They require certain protective gear be worn (not doing so would nullify the policy)

I hope this helps.


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## stickarts (Jul 5, 2006)

We are insured and it can be a serious mistake as a business owner to not be insured! Without insurance, one injury and lawsuit can put you out of business. I would not operate a school for even one day without insurance! 
Although waivers may not protect you as well as you would hope, still have every student sign a waiver in case of injury.
Once I became a home owner i also set up my school as an LLC to provide a legal veil between my personal assets and my business assets. I do not want my family effected by any potential serious business losses.

Our insurance is priced depending upon how many students we have. There are also certain legalities we have to follow such as being sure gear is worn, etc...
Any school with physical activities taking place need to be insured.
Not all policies cover all martial arts so read your policy carefully.

Feel free to PM me  for further questions.

Make sure you protect yourself as a business owner. Few students understand how difficult it is to manage a school, the sacrifice that it takes, and the challenges that arise. 
Most students assume that because you own a business you must be raking in the cash! Most martial arts school owners that i know work very hard for very little financial gain!
Make sure you cover all of your bases. Get everything in writing and don't forget that in the end, as a school owner, you are the one facing liability for what happens in your school. Trust me! i have just about seen it all!  
Even people you have helped and trusted are not beyond trying to pull a fast one on you!   You have to be firm but fair.


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## Makalakumu (Jul 5, 2006)

How about people who are running community ed clubs or other more informal dojangs?


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## stickarts (Jul 5, 2006)

Make sure that the classes are covered by someone or some entity. I would still have a waiver signed releasing your from liability.
If in doubt, i would have an attorney look things over.
I know personally of a case where someone started a satellite club and the parent school thought that the guy running the club was taking care of a waiver and the guy running the club thought that the parent school was taking care of the waiver. No one ended up taking care of it and someone later got hurt and ended up suing. It got ugly!
You go in teaching with good intentions but there are a million things to blindside you!


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## Carol (Jul 5, 2006)

stickarts said:
			
		

> Make sure that the classes are covered by someone or some entity. I would still have a waiver signed releasing your from liability.
> If in doubt, i would have an attorney look things over.
> I know personally of a case where someone started a satellite club and the parent school thought that the guy running the club was taking care of a waiver and the guy running the club thought that the parent school was taking care of the waiver. No one ended up taking care of it and someone later got hurt and ended up suing. It got ugly!
> You go in teaching with good intentions but there are a million things to blindside you!


 
Agree completely.  Discuss with a qualified attorney to determine your liability risks as well as what protections under the law your state offers you.  If you own a home or anything else of value, discuss an asset protection strategy.  Sometimes this can be as simple as making sure a that certain legal notices are filed with the state. Many attorneys will offer a consultation at little or no cost.


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## Carol (Jul 5, 2006)

stickarts said:
			
		

> Make sure that the classes are covered by someone or some entity. I would still have a waiver signed releasing your from liability.
> If in doubt, i would have an attorney look things over.
> I know personally of a case where someone started a satellite club and the parent school thought that the guy running the club was taking care of a waiver and the guy running the club thought that the parent school was taking care of the waiver. No one ended up taking care of it and someone later got hurt and ended up suing. It got ugly!
> You go in teaching with good intentions but there are a million things to blindside you!


 
It would be safest to consult with an attorney regardless, especially if you own a home.


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## Makalakumu (Jul 5, 2006)

stickarts said:
			
		

> Make sure that the classes are covered by someone or some entity. I would still have a waiver signed releasing your from liability.
> If in doubt, i would have an attorney look things over.
> I know personally of a case where someone started a satellite club and the parent school thought that the guy running the club was taking care of a waiver and the guy running the club thought that the parent school was taking care of the waiver. No one ended up taking care of it and someone later got hurt and ended up suing. It got ugly!
> You go in teaching with good intentions but there are a million things to blindside you!


 
My real job is in education, so I've had lots of experience in all of this BS.  I've always just taught MA on the side and only lately has my school really evolved into something more.  I have the waiver my teacher uses and he has checked this out with a lawyer, but waivers are just peices of paper.  They won't prevent anyone who want to sue you from suing you.  This is why the insurance question has come up.  

Currently, my school space is at a local YWCA.  I teach their woman's self defense classes and they give me time in return.  I'm not sure if their insurance would cover me and I'm not willing to chance that it would.  Basically, since I basically "rent" the space, I think that I am looking for a policy that would cover me as a teacher, but I'm not sure.  Also, I looked through our phonebook and found lots of insurance companies, but I have absolutely no clue what I really need and if they would have a product to cover me.  

Thanks for your replies thus far.  It has been very informative.


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## Makalakumu (Jul 5, 2006)

Carol Kaur said:
			
		

> It would be safest to consult with an attorney regardless, especially if you own a home.


 
So, you would say that I should probably run all of this by an attorney?  Would they be able to help me at least nail down the type of insurance product I would need?


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## Carol (Jul 5, 2006)

upnorthkyosa said:
			
		

> So, you would say that I should probably run all of this by an attorney? Would they be able to help me at least nail down the type of insurance product I would need?


 
Absolutely.  An attorney would be able to tell you what you will need in a policy, and even what to ask the YWCA for if you open up a discussion with them. 

In addition, your state may or may not have certain protections, such as a homesteader's act, that protects some/all of the equity of your home from seizure in a civil lawsuit.  In addition to your risks under the law, an attorney will be able to help you identify your protections under the law as well.

Getting involved with your town's Chamber of Commerce may also help, some have resources for small businesses such as free consulting with SCORE (Service Corps Of Retired Executives).  It is also a good way to network with your local business community...chances are you may find more than one business owner that would take a moment to chat with you about the insurance decisions they made for their business...or even get recommendations for an attorney.  

IMO - sounds to me like you are thinking about the right things and taking some good steps.


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## HKphooey (Jul 5, 2006)

upnorthkyosa said:
			
		

> My real job is in education, so I've had lots of experience in all of this BS. I've always just taught MA on the side and only lately has my school really evolved into something more. I have the waiver my teacher uses and he has checked this out with a lawyer, but waivers are just peices of paper. They won't prevent anyone who want to sue you from suing you. This is why the insurance question has come up.
> 
> Currently, my school space is at a local YWCA. I teach their woman's self defense classes and they give me time in return. I'm not sure if their insurance would cover me and I'm not willing to chance that it would. Basically, since I basically "rent" the space, I think that I am looking for a policy that would cover me as a teacher, but I'm not sure. Also, I looked through our phonebook and found lots of insurance companies, but I have absolutely no clue what I really need and if they would have a product to cover me.
> 
> Thanks for your replies thus far. It has been very informative.


 
You are correct about waivers.  The waiver is just for someone getting hurt and discouraging them from filing a claim.  But as soon as they can prove some type of negligence, faulty equipment or unqualified instruction they have grounds to file suit.  Look at the back of ski resort lift tickets, ther are waivers or liability, but they get sued like crazy.

If you are teaching at a YMCA, there is a good chance you are covered by their insurance (but they may have exclusions they are not even aware of), but I would looked into it more closely.  They could possibly come after you if they are sued.  I taught some Boy Scouts many years back and I was covered by their insurance, but I needed to fill out a bunch of paperwork.


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## HKphooey (Jul 5, 2006)

From MAIA website.

Types of Insurance Affecting Martial Arts
a. Public Liability  protects the insured against claims of negligence in
respect of bodily injury or property damage arising out of the operation of the
business of the insured i.e. the teaching of martial arts.
i. Additional Venue Public Liability may be required to cover claims in
respect of bodily injury or property damage arising out of occurrences not
directly related to the business e.g. a student slipping on a wet floor in a
shower after the class has finished. This type of occurrence may not
necessarily be covered under the Public Liability insurance held by the
instructor in relation to the conducting of martial arts training.
b. Product Liability  may be included in a Public Liability policy and protects
the insured against claims resulting from products sold or supplied, such as food,
drinks, equipment and clothing.
c. Professional Indemnity  covers individuals against claims of negligence in
respect of bodily injury or property damage when there has been error, omission or
neglect by the individual in the process of giving advice or instruction, or the
carrying out of their professional duties.
d. Personal Accident  offers protection against loss of income if a person is
unable to work through sickness or accident. May include medical benefits and lump
sums to dependents in the event of death.
e. Property Contents  covers the contents of the building owned or leased by
the insured against such things as theft, accidental breakage of glass or other goods,
damage to electrical appliances.
f. Building Insurance  covers the building owned or leased by the insured
against such things as fire, lighting, riot or civil commotion, storm or tempest, rain
water damage (flood water damage is often excluded).
g. Travel Insurance  provides cover against losses arising during travel (e.g.
flights to an international competition) due to cancellation of flights, loss of baggage,
personal injury sustained during travel.​


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## stickarts (Jul 5, 2006)

Carol Kaur said:
			
		

> Absolutely. An attorney would be able to tell you what you will need in a policy, and even what to ask the YWCA for if you open up a discussion with them.
> 
> In addition, your state may or may not have certain protections, such as a homesteader's act, that protects some/all of the equity of your home from seizure in a civil lawsuit. In addition to your risks under the law, an attorney will be able to help you identify your protections under the law as well.
> 
> ...


 
Good advice.

Having a good attorney, accountant, and marketing guy has made a world of difference for me. 
Its important to build a team of people around you that are experts in what they do. I make the final decisions but I rely heavily upon the team for ideas and advice. I try to be realistic about my strengths and weaknesses. I focus on keeping our team strong and the martial arts side.  I let the experts help with the legal and business stuff.
You are asking questions which is a great sign!


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## stickarts (Jul 5, 2006)

HKphooey said:
			
		

> You are correct about waivers. The waiver is just for someone getting hurt and discouraging them from filing a claim. But as soon as they can prove some type of negligence, faulty equipment or unqualified instruction they have grounds to file suit. Look at the back of ski resort lift tickets, ther are waivers or liability, but they get sued like crazy.
> 
> If you are teaching at a YMCA, there is a good chance you are covered by their insurance (but they may have exclusions they are not even aware of), but I would looked into it more closely. They could possibly come after you if they are sued. I taught some Boy Scouts many years back and I was covered by their insurance, but I needed to fill out a bunch of paperwork.


 
Also good advice.

The YWCA probably does have everyone covered but better to be safe and make sure. 
While waivers are not totally worthless, they are also far from any guarantee that you are protected. Waivers are more helpful in some states than others.
To cover the bases, make sure you are insured, make sure waivers are signed, and run classes as safely as possible.
If someone gets injured, make sure they receive immediate attention and promptly follow up with them to see how they are doing.
I know of one student from another school that told me that if the school owner had called her after she got injured and seemed like he had cared about her injury, she would not have sued him! His apparant lack of caring angered her to the point of suing him!
I hope this helps!!


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