# Freeing yourself from being grabbed by the wrists?



## kehcorpz (Jul 30, 2016)

What's your take on the stuff he does at 8:53?

Does this really work? It looks as if it's impossible for him to be grabbed by the wrist.

I am sceptical of this. Maybe he other guy simply doesn't have a tight enough grip.

If I for example grab my wrist with my other hand and try to turn it and free myself then I cannot do it.






----

How would you free yourself from such a grab? Is this officially taught in wing chun? I mean do they practice
scenarios like that?


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## Touch Of Death (Jul 30, 2016)

kehcorpz said:


> What's your take on the stuff he does at 8:53?
> 
> Does this really work? It looks as if it's impossible for him to be grabbed by the wrist.
> 
> ...


I will let you in on a secret. Forget this stuff. I like it for the directions of the escapes, or what ever, but the be thing to do is walk up to the grab, so that you take his arm on with your body, and or make him come in, and try to get your hand. This arm against arm stuff, is great if you are super strong, but I am more a lean mean fighting machine. Extra lean, actually.


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## Touch Of Death (Jul 30, 2016)

As for what happen at the 8:30 mark, of course that works. There is a whole world of disturbing people's balance against their weakest base of support; so, I have no problem with that counter.


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## JowGaWolf (Jul 30, 2016)

kehcorpz said:


> How would you free yourself from such a grab? Is this officially taught in wing chun? I mean do they practice
> scenarios like that?


The only thing you have to keep in mind is that he wasn't showing the technique when the guy was holding on with 2 hands. The 2 hand hold was an exaggeration to drive home the point about the turning of the wrist.  The technique is done when someone grabs your hand with one hand.  In real world application if someone was stupid enough to grab my one arm with both his hands, then I would punch with my free hand.  In real world application people will grab one arm with one hand.

The real world application of the technique is more like what Touch of Death pointed out at 8:30


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## drop bear (Jul 30, 2016)

Yeah.  There are a few different elements involved there. 

One of the things is that you are putting your ability to release a grab against his ability to maintain one.


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## Kickboxer101 (Jul 31, 2016)

Guessing you still haven't taken a class yet


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## Buka (Jul 31, 2016)

kehcorpz said:


> If I for example grab my wrist with my other hand and try to turn it and free myself then I cannot do it.



Stop doing that. You'll go blind.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Jul 31, 2016)

kehcorpz said:


> How would you free yourself from such a grab?


Twist your arm against his thumb (1 finger).


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## Kung Fu Wang (Jul 31, 2016)

JowGaWolf said:


> In real world application if someone was stupid enough to grab my one arm with both his hands, then I would punch with my free hand.


IMO, the only time that your opponent uses both hands to grab your one arm is he tries to spin your body so he can move behind you as the wrestling "arm drag".

When your opponent use both hands to grab on your right arm, if you try to punch him with your left hand, he can guide your right arm toward your left (his right). This will cause your body to spin to your left. Since your left punch will require your body to spin to your right. His double arms dragging that cause your body to spin to your left can interrupt your left punch right at that moment.


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## kehcorpz (Jul 31, 2016)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> Twist your arm against his thumb (1 finger).



And then? If I try this on myself then this doesn't free me from my grab.

Also if the other one has really strong arms and huge hands then I highly doubt that this works.


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## wckf92 (Jul 31, 2016)

kehcorpz said:


> How would you free yourself from such a grab? Is this officially taught in wing chun?



Kick him in the balls. Yes, this is taught in WC and is sanctioned by the Mythical Gatekeepers of Real Wing Chun as handed down by the Original Snake and Crane Society


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## Kung Fu Wang (Jul 31, 2016)

kehcorpz said:


> And then? If I try this on myself then this doesn't free me from my grab.
> 
> Also if the other one has really strong arms and huge hands then I highly doubt that this works.


- Use your left hand to grab on your right wrist with both palms facing downward.
- Rotate your right arm inward toward your chest and up until your right palm is facing up.
- Move your right forearm (still with palm up) forward and away from your left hand.

Can you break your right arm from your own left hand grip? You are using your whole right arm strength to fight against your left "thumb" strength. I don't believe your left thumb can be that strong.


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## kehcorpz (Jul 31, 2016)

If I rotate my right arm INward towards the chest then the palm faces DOWNward.

This move seems very unnatural to me. I'd usually try to turn my right wrist to the right side away from the chest.

Maybe I understand you wrong but this makes no sense to me.

In a real situation it would probably look this way:

My palm is vertical, thumb is up.

And then he grabs the wrist with his fingers being wrapped around it and his thumb is pointing downwards.

Now in which direction should I turn my wrist? I would try to turn it clockwise, which would be outwards.

Is there even a difference between turning it out or inwards? Does it only work when you turn it the right way?


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## Kung Fu Wang (Jul 31, 2016)

For "thumb down" grip, you turn your arm "counter-clockwise".







For "thumb up" grip, you turn your arm "clockwise".


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## Gerry Seymour (Jul 31, 2016)

kehcorpz said:


> And then? If I try this on myself then this doesn't free me from my grab.
> 
> Also if the other one has really strong arms and huge hands then I highly doubt that this works.


You can't:
- put yourself off-balance
- break your own structure by conjunctive locking to the spine
- confuse your own muscles

Doing a technique on yourself is NOTHING like doing it on someone else. I routinely demonstrate similar releases using the biggest guy in the room (I'm about average size). They absolutely work, when used in appropriate situations.


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## Gerry Seymour (Jul 31, 2016)

kehcorpz said:


> If I rotate my right arm INward towards the chest then the palm faces DOWNward.
> 
> This move seems very unnatural to me. I'd usually try to turn my right wrist to the right side away from the chest.
> 
> ...


Each direction presents a different principle to be applied. Counter-clockwise, you can slip through the gap between thumb and forefinger. Clockwise, you bring his elbow lower, starting to restrict his movement by conjunctive locking, making his grip a bit weaker. If you use the inside technique on the outside, it will probably fail, and vice-versa.


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## Tez3 (Jul 31, 2016)

If the OP were to actually go and train somewhere rather than trying to teach himself from here ( and pepper spraying himself for fun) it might be more useful. Good people are spending time here trying to explain something you should be going out and learning from an instructor and paying for it! Trying to train for free by posting questions up here is a tad insulting to the kind people here who are answering.


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## kehcorpz (Jul 31, 2016)

So wether you turn IN or OUT depends on the grip of the attacker? Do I understand this right?

AND do you learn stuff like this in every wing chun school? Is this mandatory? Cause I want to learn stuff like that.

But I worry what if they simply don't teach stuff like that or think it's not important?

I also want to learn how to ground yourself and how to be able to "relax" and this way be able to punch harder.

I also want to learn how it works that you can take hits from people without being affected by them, by somehow transfering

the energy into the ground.


Have you all been taught these things?


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## Kung Fu Wang (Jul 31, 2016)

Try to use your "common sense". Since your opponent's thumb (1 finger) is always weaker than the rest of his 4 fingers, to turn against his thumb (1 finger) is easier than to turn against his 4 fingers.


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## Gerry Seymour (Jul 31, 2016)

kehcorpz said:


> So wether you turn IN or OUT depends on the grip of the attacker? Do I understand this right?
> 
> AND do you learn stuff like this in every wing chun school? Is this mandatory? Cause I want to learn stuff like that.
> 
> ...


Actually, there's an "in" and an "out" for either grip, each having a different effect (so 4 combinations). No school will teach everything you need/want. Every school will teach more of it than what you're getting now.

EDIT: and the principles are certainly not unique to WC. Any art with any grappling component, at all, should be able to teach this stuff.


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## kehcorpz (Jul 31, 2016)

Should I, when checking out a school, explicitly ask the teacher if they teach things like these?

But what if he just says yeah course only in order to make me shut up and make me sign up and then over time I find out they don't

really teach this at all? Could I hold him accountable and quit prematurely without having to pay for the rest of the year?

Cause I don't want to be messed with. If he lied to me I'd not simply accept that.


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## Gerry Seymour (Jul 31, 2016)

gpseymour said:


> Actually, there's an "in" and an "out" for either grip, each having a different effect (so 4 combinations). No school will teach everything you need/want. Every school will teach more of it than what you're getting now.





kehcorpz said:


> Should I, when checking out a school, explicitly ask the teacher if they teach things like these?
> 
> But what if he just says yeah course only in order to make me shut up and make me sign up and then over time I find out they don't
> 
> ...


No. You should watch a class or two, see if it looks interesting, and sign up for a month. If it seems to be helping, keep training. If it doesn't move on. Don't worry about any specific technique - you don't know enough to even seek something particular yet.


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## kehcorpz (Jul 31, 2016)

But in nearly all wing chun schools here you have to sign up for 1 year!! No getting out after that.
This is all cause of money. Nobody can tell me otherwise.


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## JowGaWolf (Jul 31, 2016)

kehcorpz said:


> But in nearly all wing chun schools here you have to sign up for 1 year!! No getting out after that.
> This is all cause of money. Nobody can tell me otherwise.


Then take a different martial art.

If you don't have enough money to take a class then see if you can pay for half a year.  If you can't do that then join a martial arts club.


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## Touch Of Death (Jul 31, 2016)

kehcorpz said:


> But in nearly all wing chun schools here you have to sign up for 1 year!! No getting out after that.
> This is all cause of money. Nobody can tell me otherwise.


Ya don't say....


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## Gerry Seymour (Jul 31, 2016)

kehcorpz said:


> But in nearly all wing chun schools here you have to sign up for 1 year!! No getting out after that.
> This is all cause of money. Nobody can tell me otherwise.


I would never sign up for a new school for an entire year. As I said before, that's the only part of what you originally mentioned that has real potential for rip-off, since most students don't last their first year. Find a school (don't worry so much about the style) that allows you to pay by the month at first, until you're sure it's a good fit.


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## Touch Of Death (Jul 31, 2016)

kehcorpz said:


> Should I, when checking out a school, explicitly ask the teacher if they teach things like these?
> 
> But what if he just says yeah course only in order to make me shut up and make me sign up and then over time I find out they don't
> 
> ...


This is exactly what happened to me. I told the kenpo teacher, when I was just ten, that I wanted Kung Fu, and they assure me Kenpo was just like the Kung Fu, on," Kung Fu Theater", and that I was most assuredly in the right place. Fast forward, I am 46, now, and all I know is this stupid Kenpo stuff. It isn't like, "Kung Fu Theater", at all. What the heck?


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## JowGaWolf (Jul 31, 2016)

Touch Of Death said:


> This is exactly what happened to me. I told the kenpo teacher, when I was just ten, that I wanted Kung Fu, and they assure me Kenpo was just like the Kung Fu, on," Kung Fu Theater", and that I was most assuredly in the right place. Fast forward, I am 46, now, and all I know is this stupid Kenpo stuff. It isn't like, "Kung Fu Theater", at all. What the heck?


That's your fault for signing up for a 36 year contract


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## Danny T (Jul 31, 2016)

kehcorpz said:


> But in nearly all wing chun schools here you have to sign up for 1 year!! No getting out after that.
> This is all cause of money. Nobody can tell me otherwise.


Again, Welcome to the world.
If they are charging you money it is a business. Every business is there to make money. To make a profit. To have a higher standard of living.


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## Touch Of Death (Jul 31, 2016)

JowGaWolf said:


> That's your fault for signing up for a 36 year contract


I just keep doing the same thing, over and over, and then, maybe, one sunny day, it will be just like Kung Fu theater!


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## MAfreak (Aug 1, 2016)

this is comedy, but true. just true:


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## Marnetmar (Aug 1, 2016)

kehcorpz said:


> Should I, when checking out a school, explicitly ask the teacher if they teach things like these?
> 
> But what if he just says yeah course only in order to make me shut up and make me sign up and then over time I find out they don't
> 
> ...



JUST TRY A ******* CLASS. THIS IS NOT THAT HARD.

You've been posting this nonsense for two months. It's time to stop.


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## anerlich (Aug 1, 2016)

JowGaWolf said:


> In real world application if someone was stupid enough to grab my one arm with both his hands, then I would punch with my free hand. In real world application people will grab one arm with one hand.



There's a pretty standard wrestling hold called a 2 on 1. You control one arm at  the wrist and bicep with both your hands and you are on the outside of his arm, extending his elbow and pressing with your shoulder on the back of his. If someone gets you in this you will not be able to strike them with your free hand with any power. This is part of a standard wrestling/MMA counter to a collar tie (which could be a prelude to a strike with the other hand).

You may be able to hit me before I can grab your wrist, but if I can grab your wrist with both hands and jerk it down hard, you won't be able to hit me with any power, and I will be setting up a neck tie with the other hand or 2 on 1.

If someone grabbed my wrist like they did in the vid though, yeah, I'd punch them  too. The big problem with that vid is that the other guy is just grabbing his wrist and not trying to do anything with it, like offbalance him, create an opening to hit him, etc. You can do just about anything when your opponent just stands there.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Aug 1, 2016)

anerlich said:


> There's a pretty standard wrestling hold called a 2 on 1. You control one arm at  the wrist and bicep with both your hands and you are on the outside of his arm, extending his elbow and pressing with your shoulder on the back of his. If someone gets you in this you will not be able to strike them with your free hand with any power.


Agree! You will be in a position that your opponent's other hand can't reach you.

Here is an example.


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## JowGaWolf (Aug 1, 2016)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> Agree! You will be in a position that your opponent's other hand can't reach you.
> 
> Here is an example.


You can have that one.  It looks like a high risk technique technique to me.


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## JowGaWolf (Aug 1, 2016)

anerlich said:


> There's a pretty standard wrestling hold called a 2 on 1. You control one arm at  the wrist and bicep with both your hands and you are on the outside of his arm, extending his elbow and pressing with your shoulder on the back of his. If someone gets you in this you will not be able to strike them with your free hand with any power. This is part of a standard wrestling/MMA counter to a collar tie (which could be a prelude to a strike with the other hand).
> 
> You may be able to hit me before I can grab your wrist, but if I can grab your wrist with both hands and jerk it down hard, you won't be able to hit me with any power, and I will be setting up a neck tie with the other hand or 2 on 1.
> 
> If someone grabbed my wrist like they did in the vid though, yeah, I'd punch them  too. The big problem with that vid is that the other guy is just grabbing his wrist and not trying to do anything with it, like offbalance him, create an opening to hit him, etc. You can do just about anything when your opponent just stands there.


I would have to see that technique used in an free sparring or "real world" conflict.  It could be that it sounds risky to me because my school literally has an escape for what you described that is done in every form.  In the beginner's form "Sei Ping"  the techniques to escape that type of grab is done 16 times using 4 different techniques.  

There are 2 assumptions about that grab.  The first is that the initial grab has to last long enough for you to get your other hand on the arm.  The 2nd assumption is that the second arm will be able to grab the bicep.  Anything that interferes with the success of the initial grab and the secondary grab will cause the grabbing technique to fail.  If the first grab fails then the second grab cannot be done.  If the second grab fails then the step around will fail.

I could be wrong and missing something but from my end based on the techniques I know, that would be a high risk maneuver when striking is involved.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Aug 1, 2016)

JowGaWolf said:


> You can have that one.  It looks like a high risk technique technique to me.


It may not work every time but it's a low risk technique. The "entering strategy" use "safe entry - not to be kicked or punched when you move in". All risk has been reduced to the minimum. When your left hand touch on your opponent's right wrist, your body already start to move to his "right side door" that his left hand can't reach you. It follows the basic MA principle that you use your opponent's leading arm to jam his own back arm. There is a risk that your opponent's leading right arm may spin and hay-maker at your head. When that happen, your left arm can wrap on his right arm.



JowGaWolf said:


> If the first grab fails then the second grab cannot be done.  If the second grab fails then the step around will fail.


90% of your punches won't be able to land on your opponent's body. that's just the reality.

This can be true for all MA technique. If your opponent can move back faster than your advance, none of your technique will work on him. It's your speed vs. his speed. The "set up combo" doesn't work every time. As long as it can work 1 out of 10 tries, that will be all you need.


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## JowGaWolf (Aug 1, 2016)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> 90% of your punches won't be able to land on your opponent's body.


I think I have a higher hit percentage than 10% hit rate.  10% hit rate sounds like I'm fighting with my eyes closed.


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## anerlich (Aug 1, 2016)

JowGaWolf said:


> I would have to see that technique used in an free sparring or "real world" conflict.



Go to an MMA school where they wrestle and ask. Should be easy enough.



JowGaWolf said:


> It could be that it sounds risky to me because my school literally has an escape for what you described that is done in every form.  In the beginner's form "Sei Ping"  the techniques to escape that type of grab is done 16 times using 4 different techniques.



As someone said per the techniques in your form, "I would have to see that technique used in an free sparring or "real world" conflict."



JowGaWolf said:


> There are 2 assumptions about that grab.  The first is that the initial grab has to last long enough for you to get your other hand on the arm.  The 2nd assumption is that the second arm will be able to grab the bicep.  Anything that interferes with the success of the initial grab and the secondary grab will cause the grabbing technique to fail.  If the first grab fails then the second grab cannot be done.  If the second grab fails then the step around will fail.



It's fair enough to say that it's unlikely anyone is going to be able to reach out and grab you with those grips in the free movement phase of a fight. But if you end up in a clinch, there are a number of low risk entries to the position.



JowGaWolf said:


> I could be wrong and missing something.



Indeed. I was mainly responding to your statement that no one would use a two hands on one grab in the real world.


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## yak sao (Aug 1, 2016)

kehcorpz said:


> But in nearly all wing chun schools here you have to sign up for 1 year!! No getting out after that.
> This is all cause of money. Nobody can tell me otherwise.



So as an instructor who has spent decades training and no telling how much of my own money to learn, I am now supposed to simply give it away out of the kindness of my heart?
Oh what the hell, come on over, as a matter of fact you can stay in my spare bedroom and eat out of my fridge...no charge of course.


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## drop bear (Aug 1, 2016)

anerlich said:


> Go to an MMA school where they wrestle and ask. Should be easy enough.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



2 on on control is a case of not standing square on when you are doing it. 

So i can say grab his right arm with two hands.  But my head would be tucked into the right side of his body.
(head wrestling). Making it hard to hit me with punches.


This happens a bit doing standing restraints or fighting for a weapon.

Sorry arm drags as well.  But you could make an excuse that it is transitional.


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## anerlich (Aug 1, 2016)

drop bear said:


> 2 on on control is a case of not standing square on when you are doing it.
> 
> So i can say grab his right arm with two hands.  But my head would be tucked into the right side of his body.
> (head wrestling). Making it hard to hit me with punches.
> ...



All excellent points.


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## anerlich (Aug 1, 2016)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> Agree! You will be in a position that your opponent's other hand can't reach you.
> 
> Here is an example.



That's an arm drag. Not a 2 on 1.


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## anerlich (Aug 1, 2016)

The intermediate position here is a 2 on 1. The guy's head is up because he's talking, generally it would be next to the other guy's so he couldn't get hit or butted and for additional control.


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## JowGaWolf (Aug 1, 2016)

anerlich said:


> Go to an MMA school where they wrestle and ask. Should be easy enough.


I've seen it done in the context of wrestling or close quarters. I haven't seen it done in the context that  Kung Fu Wang showed by reaching out for the lead hand of someone in a fighting stance.

I tried that today with the other instructor by grabbing his lead hand and each time it was bad news.  He just used a couple of the techniques that is taught in the school to deal with grabs and all I caught were back fists to the face, reverse punches, elbows, and strikes to the wrist.



anerlich said:


> As someone said per the techniques in your form, "I would have to see that technique used in an free sparring or "real world" conflict."


  That's fair enough.  Some things take seeing to understand.  I wish I could show the technique and application but I'm not allowed to. I checked online and found many forms with the technique but none explaining it.

This is the best that I can do.  It's the technique right after the double spear hand. Literally the 2nd technique in the form.  His form of the technique isn't that good.  Too slow and the structure is off, but now that you know what it looks like you can see it in the video below where they are doing it at fighting speed.





you'll see this technique in a lot of Jow Ga forms.  It's easy to spot once you know what you are looking for.


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## anerlich (Aug 1, 2016)

JowGaWolf said:


> I've seen it done in the context of wrestling or close quarters. I haven't seen it done in the context that  Kung Fu Wang showed by reaching out for the lead hand of someone in a fighting stance.
> 
> I tried that today with the other instructor by grabbing his lead hand and each time it was bad news.  He just used a couple of the techniques that is taught in the school to deal with grabs and all I caught were back fists to the face, reverse punches, elbows, and strikes to the wrist.



KFW's technique isn't the technique I was discussing.



JowGaWolf said:


> That's fair enough.  Some things take seeing to understand.  I wish I could show the technique and application but I'm not allowed to. I checked online and found many forms with the technique but none explaining it.



Too bad you're not allowed to. Because those vids don't help me visualise such counters at all.


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## JowGaWolf (Aug 1, 2016)

anerlich said:


> The intermediate position here is a 2 on 1. The guy's head is up because he's talking, generally it would be next to the other guy's so he couldn't get hit or butted and for additional control.


That makes sense to me for a two arm grab. 

and this makes sense to me.





None of these are done from the perspective of attacking someone in a striking fighting stance.  All of the arm drags I saw were initiated when in a clinch and not as an entry of attacking the lead hand of a striker.


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## drop bear (Aug 1, 2016)

JowGaWolf said:


> I've seen it done in the context of wrestling or close quarters. I haven't seen it done in the context that  Kung Fu Wang showed by reaching out for the lead hand of someone in a fighting stance.
> 
> I tried that today with the other instructor by grabbing his lead hand and each time it was bad news.  He just used a couple of the techniques that is taught in the school to deal with grabs and all I caught were back fists to the face, reverse punches, elbows, and strikes to the wrist.
> 
> ...



Yeah i would not try the arm drag from wangs position. I would clinch first. Unless he is giving me some sort of feed that makes it possible.

Back to that directly in front idea.

Unless it was a weapon i am trying to secure.


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## JowGaWolf (Aug 1, 2016)

anerlich said:


> Too bad you're not allowed to. Because those vids don't help me visualise such counters at all.


Yeah it sucks. I wish I could actually show it because it's a very practical counter.  The counter that I know counters what KFW was showing not the technique that you showed. If I get into a situation like that then those techniques escape techniques won't work.  I'm not sure what Jow Ga techniques would work in the clinch with the arm drag or the 2 on 1 techniques. The only thing that I know in terms of Jow Ga and grappling in general is that elbow control is easy and effective.  Good escapes and good control often takes the elbow into consideration.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Aug 1, 2016)

drop bear said:


> Yeah i would not try the arm drag from wangs position. I would clinch first. Unless he is giving me some sort of feed that makes it possible..


That was training and not fighting. When you downward parry your back left arm on your opponent's leading right arm,

if his arm is

- still there, your downward parry arm can change into a grabbing hand and continue your arm drag.
- not there, your downward parry arm can change into an upward wrapping arm.

To use your downward parry arm to force your opponent to respond is what you are looking for. You then respond to it according to his respond. Since you don't know what your opponent's respond may be, that make the training much more interested.


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## JowGaWolf (Aug 1, 2016)

drop bear said:


> Unless it was a weapon i am trying to secure.


I stand correctly.  2 hand arm grab to control a weapon.. definitely valid until you get smarty pants partners like me.  One day while practicing 2 hand arm grabs on knife defense. I simply dropped the knife from my control hand into my free hand and stabbed my partner lol.  But in most situations 99.9%  the person isn't going to risk dropping the knife into the open hand.  So 2 hand arm grabs to secure a weapon definitely.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Aug 1, 2016)

JowGaWolf said:


> The counter that I know counters what KFW was showing not the technique that you showed.


This counter works well for both "arm drag" and "2 on 1".


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## anerlich (Aug 2, 2016)

JowGaWolf said:


> That makes sense to me for a two arm grab.
> 
> and this makes sense to me.
> 
> ...



Like drop bear, I wouldn't try to use either technique without some sort of clinch control first. KFW's clip demonstrated the technique against an unresisting partner feeding him the technique. Which is fair enough as long as the context is understood. But both arm drags and 2 on 1s are bread and butter for grapplers.



JowGaWolf said:


> I stand correctly.  2 hand arm grab to control a weapon.. definitely valid until you get smarty pants partners like me.  One day while practicing 2 hand arm grabs on knife defense. I simply dropped the knife from my control hand into my free hand and stabbed my partner lol.  But in most situations 99.9%  the person isn't going to risk dropping the knife into the open hand.  So 2 hand arm grabs to secure a weapon definitely.



My Jiu Jitsu instructor is also a black belt in arnis. In his opinion unarmed knife defence probably leads to death, but if you're dead anyway you might as well have a go. He would have you in a modified 2 on 1 on the weapon arm. controlling and hyperextending the elbow taking the knife arm to the ground using your full bodyweight. Hard to explain in words but you would have zero chance of dropping that knife into the other hand like that. Letting go of the knife to ostensibly catch it with the other hand gives the enemy the chance to take it. 100% of the time I'm  not going to drop the knife intentionally.


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## drop bear (Aug 2, 2016)

JowGaWolf said:


> I stand correctly.  2 hand arm grab to control a weapon.. definitely valid until you get smarty pants partners like me.  One day while practicing 2 hand arm grabs on knife defense. I simply dropped the knife from my control hand into my free hand and stabbed my partner lol.  But in most situations 99.9%  the person isn't going to risk dropping the knife into the open hand.  So 2 hand arm grabs to secure a weapon definitely.



I have been mulling this knife business over a bit.  I think if you engage you also need an exit. Just in case someone pulld a stunt like that.  You can't keep taking multiple dips at securing that knife.

I dont think i have seen anyone train an exit from a failed grab. They just keep chasing.


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## Gerry Seymour (Aug 2, 2016)

drop bear said:


> I have been mulling this knife business over a bit.  I think if you engage you also need an exit. Just in case someone pulld a stunt like that.  You can't keep taking multiple dips at securing that knife.
> 
> I dont think i have seen anyone train an exit from a failed grab. They just keep chasing.


We were just discussing this last week. I was introducing some students to knife defenses, and made precisely that point. When you go in, if you don't get control, you get out. Yes, they get another chance to attack, but better they have to step in and attack again, than having you right handy for multi-stabbing.


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## lansao (Nov 29, 2016)

Some notes from my studies. On a parallel arm grab using fuk sao when you rotate while bringing your elbow forward (effectively behaving as though you're checking the time on that hand) is very useful. Additionally, bridging from that arm to make contact with your opponent and capture their elbow/center is a helpful follow-up.

Additionally, fut sao to inside jut sao with a t-step is useful and leverages your body against their hand/wrist/arm.

Finally, for cross arm grab, tan sao while sinking into a reversed stance can help escape. From there, the tan hand can bridge up the opponents arm to his center with a strike. That said, multiple follow-ups are accessible from here.

~ Alan, Wing Chun Student


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