# Brilliant or Racist ?



## Cryozombie (Jan 24, 2004)

from:
http://www.concealcarry.org/naacp.htm

This dealer has decided to stop selling Guns to african americans to "Comply" with the NAACP lawsuit againts dealers and manufacturers for providing firearms by African Americans.   



> I am perfectly willing to resume sales of guns to African-Americans as soon as the NAACP asks me too. So far, they have not asked so I guess they are cool with it...for now.
> 
> However the current situation is this:
> 
> ...


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## Black Bear (Jan 25, 2004)

Can't it be both?  :shrug:


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## Rich Parsons (Jan 25, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Black Bear _
> *Can't it be both?  :shrug: *



Brilliant and Racist?

I would say No.

Murderer and Racist? I would say that the possibility exists. Given the history of mankind.

I had police who once told me that I could not stop a gang of guys from hitting one of my female employees. I also had the same police tell me that I had to not let these gangs (* even if they were not wearing colors, and arrived by one or two *) in to the place. I was also told that I had to stop the violence.

If I stopped them from hitting the girl I faced charges. If I did not stop the gangs or groups of guys then I faced harassment and or charges. If I stopped the violoence with violence what the common street thug unerstands, then I faced Charges.

So, I did what I thought best. I stopped them with as little violence as possible, and I also filed charges back.

At a Univeristy I attended, I was the legal affairs person for the student government. I was brought up on racist charges because I would not approve the constitution of the local National Association of Black Accounts (NABA). I agreed that there should be a club. I provided, and even wrote a club constitution for them. Yet, they insisted to use the template provided by the national organization (* At the time *). It read that you have to be a minority to be a member and you had to be Black or Hispanic and preferable female to be an officer. I agree that the average white guy interested in accounting would join the white dominated accounting club and not the NABA club. Let alone,  run for office. Yet, I could not allow the University to be put into a position to be sued. Yet, in that defense I faced charges, had my name run through the mud and could have been expelled. In the end all was fine, and most of the African American students and staff and faculty respected my points.

Most likely it is just what it seems, an stupid situation that has gotten out of hand.
:asian:


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## dearnis.com (Jan 25, 2004)

Rich is exactly right.  

The store owner is taking an absurd stand to call attention to the absurdity of his situation; nothing more.

I would go on about this topic, but it gets way too emotional.  You can't address it rationally without being labeled racist, so why take it up in the first place.

And  Rich's college story sheds some light on why I left academic life.


Chad


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## Rich Parsons (Jan 25, 2004)

> _Originally posted by dearnis.com _
> *Rich is exactly right.
> 
> The store owner is taking an absurd stand to call attention to the absurdity of his situation; nothing more.
> ...



Yes, College politics makes governmental politcs look like the playground


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## Black Bear (Jan 26, 2004)

I saw a news article online about some girl trying to start a "caucasian club" in her school. They had a black students' association, an asian one, whatever. There was a huge controversy apparently. Funny stuff. 

I was in graduate student government for three years, and race issues were never raised. We're too freaking international, man. The proportion of white people on the council of about 150 ppl was about the same as the proportion of white people on the earth. There were both great statespeople and morons of every race.


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## loki09789 (Jan 26, 2004)

The basics of this are simple:\

NAACP is not a government regulatory body that any private business owner has to answer to.  

As a firearms distributor, he SHOULD be following the federal/state regulations that establish the limits/rules of his business.

Enough said.

If any organization wants to file civil charges for something they don't like, take on the institution, not the guys trying to stay in business (as long as it is run responsibly and legally) and put food on the table.  This doesn't win anyone to your cause it just makes everyone roll their eyes and confirm how ridiculous all of this can be.

Paul Martin


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## Bob Hubbard (Jan 26, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Black Bear _
> *I saw a news article online about some girl trying to start a "caucasian club" in her school. They had a black students' association, an asian one, whatever. There was a huge controversy apparently. Funny stuff.
> 
> I was in graduate student government for three years, and race issues were never raised. We're too freaking international, man. The proportion of white people on the council of about 150 ppl was about the same as the proportion of white people on the earth. There were both great statespeople and morons of every race. *



Well, its Black history month again.  I think we have Womand Day coming up, and I do recall an Asian Pride, a Muslem Pride, and a Hispanic week also mentioned.  There is also pending info on a declared Native American holiday making the rounds. 

I also do recall myself being called a racist for suggesting a "National White Boy Day". 

People are hypocrits.  Thats all.


As to the gun issue, some folks need to remember, guns don't kill.
People do.  Maybe people should evolve to a higher level?


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## Touch Of Death (Jan 26, 2004)

I may have been a little brash, but I don't know why the majority needs empowerment beyond Karate clubs and bowling leagues. White people are already in charge. As Chris Rock asked, " If white people are losing, who the hell is winning?".
Sean


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## Black Bear (Jan 26, 2004)

You know, there are a few issues. 

1) One is this thing called race. People from different parts of the world have different skin tones, their faces have some idiosyncracies, and even their body morphology differs systematically. Most people feel that it makes people of races other than their own look "funny". Some feel that it makes other people look "cool". It doesn't matter. They're all people and we should be nice to them. Some people think that races differ systematically in things that really matter, like intelligence or conscientiousness. These people are called "racists". Most non-racist people find this idea inherently pretty offensive, but I don't think that it matters too much, as long as the racists accept that in this society, we consider every person to have an "inherent value" independent of their ability level and stuff. And we should be nice to all of them anyway, and treat them fairly and on their *individual merits*. 

2) Culture. People from different parts of the world have different ways of thinking and valuing things based on the systems of thought in that part of the world. Since most of us live in fairly multicultural societies, we should get to know their ways of thinking about things so we can get along a bit better. Members of the majority group should consider themselves to have somewhat more of an obligation to learn about this stuff than minorities, because they're less likely to learn this stuff naturally just going through life. 

I'm pretty sure this gun store guy was trying to be ironic, kind of like a statement of protest toward what the NAACP said. Me, I think it's funny. If folks around there are upset, they should communicate their disapproval through appropriate and legal means. 

Sorry if I'm missing the point. That's just a Canadian view. Race isn't as touchy here as it is in, say, the US. I don't pretend to understand the US culture, and maybe what this guy's doing is considered to be really, really offensive.


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## Seig (Jan 27, 2004)

The NAACP may not b e a governing body, _de jure_, but they are _de facto_.  Don't believe me?  Cross them once.......


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## dearnis.com (Jan 27, 2004)

> The NAACP may not b e a governing body, de jure_, but they are de facto. Don't believe me? Cross them once......._


_ 

Yup._


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## loki09789 (Jan 27, 2004)

The NAACP is not a governing body in any capacity, they are a lobby/support organization that has a civil agenda - the spirit of which I agree with whole heartedly by the way.  The NRA is another lobby/support organization with a civil agenda.  These organizations have lawyers and money/time to spend fighting issues in court/media arenas that they believe in.  THey can strong arm and influence decisions, but they do not ultimately MAKE the decisions.

At times both/all civil lobby/support groups pick publicity battles that they know on the surface are silly, but can be argued on the merits of priniciple.  

How many of us really see it as worth while to argue and spend money lobbying congress for the right of the individual civilian to own a fully automatic .50 cal Browning machine gun?  On the surface, and to the general public this seems like a 'whacko' view of the right to bear arms, but it does make for a good conversation starter and draws alot of attention to the cause

I have no intention of 'crossing' any lobby organization just to make a point.  If I think that it is worthwhile and relevant I would/have stood my ground, but this sounds like childish reactionary pettiness in this case.  The business owner is using the language of a child that crosses his arms, flops on his bottom and says I don't want to play anymore.


Paul Martin


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## Tapps (Jan 27, 2004)

> These organizations have lawyers and money/time to spend fighting issues in court/media arenas that they believe in.



I think this is a big part of the problem.

Everyone wants to litigate their point of view and no one wants to listen to differing opinions.

We (USA) are the most over litigated nation on Earth.


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## tmanifold (Jan 29, 2004)

I think part of the problem is that people can't seem to be proud of themselves with out making other people feel bad about themselves. I am proud of my Irish Background, I am proud of my white European heritage but I think Blacks, Asians, Natives, Hispanics, etc. have just as much to be proud of. I have my suspicions that the people who make the biggest stink about this kind of stuff are secretly ashamed of their heritage be it black or white or what ever.


Tony


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## Marvin (Feb 5, 2004)

"The issue at hand is the American experience. Those of us who are white can be Americans; those of use who are non-white are relegated to 2nd class citizenship as a hyphenated American.
If you were lucky enough to be born white, then you will never have to bear the scrutiny of your fellow workers or students, wondering how you got the job or got into university. 
Being white is the norm. There is no Caucasians only clubs at the university, because there doesnt need to be. The last 250 years have been a Caucasians only country. Many people dont realize that segregation by race was the law of the land only 48 years ago! Now I realize there may be some young people on this forum, but 48 year is not that long ago. Another point in fact is the U.S. government considered one drop of blood to make an individual black.
African-Americans were slaves in this county for 400 years, which is a very long time for one people to hold domination over another. Within that time frame a lot of behaviors and opinions can be made and passed down. Even if a person believes they are not racist, some internalized factor may subconsciously have them pick a white applicant over a minority applicant, or have security follow those guys with the baggy pants and FUBU gear. Let me give you all a real world example. I worked a retail store, one day these guys, who are black, steal something from the store. The store managers response was the next time any ni**ers come in this store, I want to know about it. This same store had an 800 number to call if any employee heard or saw any unethical behavior, I called the number to report the incident and their response was "we dont handle that type of call", this was in 2002.
Ill post more on the subject later.
I need some sleep


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## loki09789 (Feb 6, 2004)

"Those of us who are white can be Americans; those of use who are non-white are relegated to 2nd class citizenship as a hyphenated American."

This idea of hyphenated American is still there among the white Americans: Irish-Amer, Italian-Amer, Polish-Amer...

All white by color.  Also there have been periods in the land of the free and the home... well you get it, that Irish/Italians were considered as lowly as Blacks in the eyes of the powers that be.  During the industrial rev. the Slavs were the second wave immigrants treated as poorly as any group.  Don't even mention the Jewish hatred that goes back further in euro history than the racism against blacks... or the Chinese in America... 

A real 'life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness' as long as you look like me and are as rich as me.  Lots of research pointing more toward a Roman view of citizen in the 'founding father' mindset than over all equality.

I am not trying to trivialize the minority struggle for equal recognition and acceptance, but to target the private gun salesman for making legal sales to people who clear a background check seems like a strange way to rally the average "White" citizen to the validity of your cause.

Is it logical to file suit against the car companies because of vehicular manslaughter or DWI?

Paul Martin


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## Black Bear (Feb 6, 2004)

No--but I do wish they would cut off the hands of anyone who is caught DWI. Well, okay, maybe just on the second offense. I think that that would reduce the incidence of that particular offense. 

Anyway, I think Marvin had some worthwhile remarks.


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## loki09789 (Feb 9, 2004)

I agree that Marvin's point about perception and subtle and not so subtle classicism/racism exists.  That may explain the state of things now, but that should not excuse or justify the blaming of a legally operating, seemingly average businessman dealing ethically in firearms to be the target of this type of rock and a hard place civil issues publicity hunting.

Paul M


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