# Acupuncture scam or is the test a scam



## JadecloudAlchemist (Aug 10, 2009)

http://www.acupuncturetoday.com/mpacms/at/article.php?id=32013



> These sham acupuncture needles, which are internationally accepted and referred to as Streitberger or Park needles, are used by virtually every researcher conducting studies within the area of acupuncture. It is the standard for the scientific industry. This fact alone makes any research using this needle procedure a "sham," as it is ignores that nonpenetrating acupuncture is a valid technique.


 
I have no comment because I do not want to argue or debate waste of time. Enjoy.


----------



## teekin (Aug 11, 2009)

Well it well worth posting the study. The problem of the validity of every double blind study done using this methodology up to this point now comes into question doesn't it. I wonder what the studies which include mild electro-stimulation vs placebo show? 
lori


----------



## Nomad (Aug 12, 2009)

Hmmmm... the fact that this revealing article was published in "Acupuncture Today" doesn't lend it a whole lot of credibility.  I _*suspect*_ they may have a vested interest in "debunking" these clinical trials which were published in peer reviewed journals (not to say that the original authors may not have had a slant, but it at least gives the appearance of less bias than this response).


----------



## Carol (Aug 12, 2009)

What is "non-penetrating accupuncture" and if its not penetrating, how is it still "accupuncture" and not something else (accupressure, meridian therapy, etc)?


----------



## JadecloudAlchemist (Aug 12, 2009)

My guess is Non penetrating is just using the needle pressing the skin most likely a form of superfical needling IMO it can stimulate Qi but depending on what you are doing other forms that require deeper might be more ideal.
 Most people think you just stab with a needle. In fact there are Gauges,Depths,Angles,and Needle manipulation. 

The point of bringing this article up was we finally have proof of what exactly is done in the studies. We now see what type of needles are being used and what points are being used as well as what rules are being used.

The article was written by someone who participated in one of the studies:





> Recently, a major research institute attached to a very prominent university received a grant to conduct acupuncture research. They chose as their topic the treatment of colitis and diverticulitis via acupuncture. They sought my input and expertise into the matter. To say I was honored and humbled would be an understatement. When I inquired as to my role, I was shocked to learn they wanted to know "what points do you treat for this condition?"
> They did not have a clue what acupuncture was. They only wanted to know what points to use for gastrointestinal distress. I reminded them that was a very general condition with many potential causes. I advised against using federal funds to finance such a study since their final results would be flawed. They were totally unaware of pulse, tongue diagnosis, system review or electromeridian imaging through _ryodoraku_. When I asked what was their goal for the research, I was told "to determine if acupuncture was effective in gastrointestinal distress."


 
As I have said many times concerning Acupuncture studies both for or against we need to know what points were used,What treatment is being used,and if any other treatment such as Herbal,Tuina etc is being used.


----------



## teekin (Aug 13, 2009)

As in all Medical studies just setting up a valid Double Blind that will get past review once the results are in is a huge huge PITA. Add the erratic behavior of humans and it's a surprise anything gets published.
 The idea is that the control group must get the Exact same treatment as the acupuncture group except for the acupuncture. You don't want the presence of the healer, the healers physical touch, the touch of the needle on the dermis or excitation of dermal nerves, the trip to the office, the anticipation of pain, the smell of the alcohol swab,........and on and on it goes to be a factor. So both groups need to experience Exactly the same thing except for the acupuncture. Can you see how difficult this would be with 2 large cross section groups?
lori


----------

