# A new idea



## GojuTommy

Last week I got inspired.

I’ve been teaching in some capacity since I was 14, my dojo however isn’t the same as it used to be so I’ve decided to strike out on my own in a way after 3 years of unsuccessfully trying to steer things back on to the track I thought they should be on.

Anyway my goal is to promote striking arts for full contact competition and practical real world self defense.

My idea is more of a mix up of martial arts marketing agency and a club that will provide several other services.

Are you a point sparring karate or TKD school? Want to learn how to adapt what you already teach for the real world or higher intensity and heavier contact leagues/tournaments? We can do that.

Do you also work with kids but you just aren’t good at it? Seminars on how to work with and teach younger kids can be set up.

Would you like to use a larger space than what you currently have? The clubhouse can be reserved.

Also looking into trying to do a BBB type set up to help people find the best schools for what they want as well as a school/instructor accreditation system.

Schools can sign up as member school or as an individual martial artist.

What other services would you as instructors and owners like to see as to make it worth getting involved?

Also I feel pretentious about accreditation but I think about it as a way for the local martial arts community to police itself, as member school head instructors would vote on accreditation.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf

So essentially your idea is create a school designed to teach schools how to adapt/expand on what they do? 

Would you be doing all this teaching yourself, or would it be more of a "Person from school A is really good with kids, so he can teach a class on working with kids, person from school B has done MMA competition and can help others learn to pressure test, person from school C actually has an MBA and a successful business model, so he can teach people how to run a business"? 

Not going into the accreditation part, but regarding the others, for the first option (you teaching), that would require a lot of experience and skills on your part, for the second option, that would be a really cool idea if you can get instructors along with it, but I'm not sure there's a large enough market (depending where you live) to actually make money off of it. If you can find a way to, or if you don't care about the money, it has the potential to be really cool.


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## GojuTommy

kempodisciple said:


> So essentially your idea is create a school designed to teach schools how to adapt/expand on what they do?
> 
> Would you be doing all this teaching yourself, or would it be more of a "Person from school A is really good with kids, so he can teach a class on working with kids, person from school B has done MMA competition and can help others learn to pressure test, person from school C actually has an MBA and a successful business model, so he can teach people how to run a business"?
> 
> Not going into the accreditation part, but regarding the others, for the first option (you teaching), that would require a lot of experience and skills on your part, for the second option, that would be a really cool idea if you can get instructors along with it, but I'm not sure there's a large enough market (depending where you live) to actually make money off of it. If you can find a way to, or if you don't care about the money, it has the potential to be really cool.


Ideally it would be both options.

I have been praised for my ability with children for example and also spent 2 years before I enlisted coaching an MMA team after karate.

I’d also provide marketing and promotion of the schools, so the club house would be set up like a school in its own right with mats bags, strength training equipment etc. members can reserve the clubhouse or specific areas/ equipment if they don’t have that equipment or just need a bigger area.
The club would also set up events with all the schools invited to participate and the public invited to observe.

An area one stop shop for martial arts basically.

In my area I’ve recorded a page and a half of local schools that I think would be interested which leaves out schools that appear to only target a younger demographic (5-16) but maybe they’ll want to branch out as well.


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## Headhunter

Meh...not something I'd be interested in. Everyone has their own ways of doing things and that's not right or wrong but why would instructors stop what they're doing and change to follow your ideas.

Honestly to me this just sounds like a nice little money maker for you. Not saying that's a bad thing but honestly it wouldn't interest me at all.

Also you say you've been doing karate since you were 14 but also you've coached an mma team...do you see the issue you can't run an mma school just knowing karate


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## hoshin1600

Dunning - Kruger effect.


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## GojuTommy

Headhunter said:


> Meh...not something I'd be interested in. Everyone has their own ways of doing things and that's not right or wrong but why would instructors stop what they're doing and change to follow your ideas.
> 
> Honestly to me this just sounds like a nice little money maker for you. Not saying that's a bad thing but honestly it wouldn't interest me at all.
> 
> Also you say you've been doing karate since you were 14 but also you've coached an mma team...do you see the issue you can't run an mma school just knowing karate


Considering traditional Okinawan karate is already a mixture of several martial arts, and goju karate includes take downs and some ground fighting.

But luckily the head of our organization was also an Olympian judoka, and has judo, and traditional jiu jistu at the hombu dojo so I’ve had plenty of opportunities to supplement karate take down and ground fighting techniques with those over the years.


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## hoshin1600

ill just quote myself here,,,just because


hoshin1600 said:


> Dunning - Kruger effect.


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## Martial D

Misleading thread title


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## GojuTommy

It seems rather than drawing issue with the idea itself most here seem to have a problem with someone being confident in themselves.
Oh well created the account for some general market research, time to move on to region specific market research.

Enjoy gentlemen.

But yes as head hunter said it is intended to be a nice little money maker since no amount of passion alone will pay my mortgage and bills, and I’m not fortunate enough to be a trust fund baby to be able to chase things with no interest of profit. I’ve already taught without getting paid as a hobby, it was fine since the head instructor was already putting his own money into things to ensure struggling families had a chance to participate, but rather than follow his path of 70+ hours at work a week followed by a dozen or so hours in the dojo I’d rather just spend the time doing something I enjoy while making money to support myself.


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## Flying Crane

GojuTommy said:


> It seems rather than drawing issue with the idea itself most here seem to have a problem with someone being confident in themselves.
> Oh well created the account for some general market research, time to move on to region specific market research.
> 
> Enjoy gentlemen.
> 
> But yes as head hunter said it is intended to be a nice little money maker since no amount of passion alone will pay my mortgage and bills, and I’m not fortunate enough to be a trust fund baby to be able to chase things with no interest of profit. I’ve already taught without getting paid as a hobby, it was fine since the head instructor was already putting his own money into things to ensure struggling families had a chance to participate, but rather than follow his path of 70+ hours at work a week followed by a dozen or so hours in the dojo I’d rather just spend the time doing something I enjoy while making money to support myself.


I think lots of people get an idea kind of like this.  Perhaps some of them are successful, after a fashion.  If you can make it work and provide a quality service while making some money, then good job.

Personally, I would not be interested.


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## hoshin1600

GojuTommy said:


> It seems rather than drawing issue with the idea itself most here seem to have a problem with someone being confident in themselves.
> Oh well created the account for some general market research, time to move on to region specific market research.
> 
> Enjoy gentlemen.
> 
> But yes as head hunter said it is intended to be a nice little money maker since no amount of passion alone will pay my mortgage and bills, and I’m not fortunate enough to be a trust fund baby to be able to chase things with no interest of profit. I’ve already taught without getting paid as a hobby, it was fine since the head instructor was already putting his own money into things to ensure struggling families had a chance to participate, but rather than follow his path of 70+ hours at work a week followed by a dozen or so hours in the dojo I’d rather just spend the time doing something I enjoy while making money to support myself.


You got inspired, that's great. Don't let people damped that flame. But here is the problem, many if not most martial arts instructors out there have more experience and are more successful at it than you.  Why would they pay you? What credentialed expertise do you bring to the table? People might be willing to pay for some Professional advise but "_ I've been told I'm good at teaching kids "_ just is not going to be in high demand. You said yourself you went out on your own when you couldn't turn the failing dojo around. Why would I entrust my life savings and my 2nd mortgage to you?
I'm not trying to be negative but you haven't proven your self to be successful yet and if you want clients and or convince people on your idea your going to have to have some proof. That's just the way the world works.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf

GojuTommy said:


> It seems rather than drawing issue with the idea itself most here seem to have a problem with someone being confident in themselves.
> Oh well created the account for some general market research, time to move on to region specific market research.
> 
> Enjoy gentlemen.
> 
> But yes as head hunter said it is intended to be a nice little money maker since no amount of passion alone will pay my mortgage and bills, and I’m not fortunate enough to be a trust fund baby to be able to chase things with no interest of profit. I’ve already taught without getting paid as a hobby, it was fine since the head instructor was already putting his own money into things to ensure struggling families had a chance to participate, but rather than follow his path of 70+ hours at work a week followed by a dozen or so hours in the dojo I’d rather just spend the time doing something I enjoy while making money to support myself.


At that point, you had 4 responses, one about the thread title (which honestly is not very clear), one saying dunning-kruger effect, one saying but he wouldn't be interested (in the idea, not in you), and one asking for more information on the idea. That's 2 people who are up for a discussion (and hoshin is too, as shown by his later posts), and only 1 person saying something 'negative' about your confidence in yourself. And even then, barely.

If that's what it takes for you to give up on a forum, that's an issue on it's own. When you propose this idea to people around you, you're going to get a lot more rejection that you have to handle, especially if you go into it without a business plan.


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## GojuTommy

hoshin1600 said:


> You got inspired, that's great. Don't let people damped that flame. But here is the problem, many if not most martial arts instructors out there have more experience and are more successful at it than you.  Why would they pay you? What credentialed expertise do you bring to the table? People might be willing to pay for some Professional advise but "_ I've been told I'm good at teaching kids "_ just is not going to be in high demand. You said yourself you went out on your own when you couldn't turn the failing dojo around. Why would I entrust my life savings and my 2nd mortgage to you?
> I'm not trying to be negative but you haven't proven your self to be successful yet and if you want clients and or convince people on your idea your going to have to have some proof. That's just the way the world works.


1. Was only looking to see if the idea was something that would be generally of interest.
2. Over the years I’ve learned that a lot of schools have head instructors who are 1st and 2nd degree black belts, so those are the schools I’d primarily be targeting.(I won’t say a specific market share that fall into that category because I’m really not that far into the market research.) You are right it would be pretty silly to approach a school owner who has been running the school successfully for 20+ years at this point.
3. I gave advice to a business owner who refused to take my advice, that school is still open and likely will be for years to come. 

I also did the marketing for the family motorcycle shop which had a successful 16 year run including a major up sizing until I joined the navy I’d say I do have experience. The shop only closed because the 70yr olds who ran decided they didn’t want to work any more.

My goal is not to approach well established schools that have been operating for over a decade, but there are several places locally that appear to be operating out of the basement or garage of the instructor’s personal residence.
For a monthly, semi-annual, or annual membership fee they could have someone helping them with marketing and promotion as well as a more professional facility they can use to help to bring and keep students. (Let’s face it people with no martial arts knowledge are more likely to end up with a poor teacher with a professional looking facility, than a great teacher using their garage, a punching bag and a fold up mat)


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## Flying Crane

Looking back at the OP, I see a huge problem with the whole credentialling issue.  A group of fellows getting together to decide who in their neighborhood deserves proper credentials just sounds like a problem ripe for abuse, never mind the question of who even has the authority to make these decisions.  When you decide to step into the middle of cross-system credentialling, it begins to smell of BS in an awful hurry.


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## GojuTommy

Flying Crane said:


> Looking back at the OP, I see a huge problem with the whole credentialling issue.  A group of fellows getting together to decide who in their neighborhood deserves proper credentials just sounds like a problem ripe for abuse, never mind the question of who even has the authority to make these decisions.  When you decide to step into the middle of cross-system credentialling, it begins to smell of BS in an awful hurry.


I get that, but who gave the BBB their authority hand out certificates that basically say ‘these are good people to do business with’?

Like I said it feels pretentious to call it an accreditation board but something like a martial arts specific version of the BBB, if that makes sense.

Not credentialing a TKD instructor in TKD, but more like saying “this instructor has shown that they will teach their style in a way conducive to realistic self denfense and/or full contact sport sparring.

Hope that make sense


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## GojuTommy

Better Business Bureau - Wikipedia


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## Xue Sheng

GojuTommy said:


> Last week I got inspired.
> 
> I’ve been teaching in some capacity since I was 14, my dojo however isn’t the same as it used to be so I’ve decided to strike out on my own in a way after 3 years of unsuccessfully trying to steer things back on to the track I thought they should be on.
> 
> Anyway my goal is to promote striking arts for full contact competition and practical real world self defense.
> 
> My idea is more of a mix up of martial arts marketing agency and a club that will provide several other services.
> 
> Are you a point sparring karate or TKD school? Want to learn how to adapt what you already teach for the real world or higher intensity and heavier contact leagues/tournaments? We can do that.
> 
> Do you also work with kids but you just aren’t good at it? Seminars on how to work with and teach younger kids can be set up.
> 
> Would you like to use a larger space than what you currently have? The clubhouse can be reserved.
> 
> Also looking into trying to do a BBB type set up to help people find the best schools for what they want as well as a school/instructor accreditation system.
> 
> Schools can sign up as member school or as an individual martial artist.
> 
> What other services would you as instructors and owners like to see as to make it worth getting involved?



It is not new....it is back to the way it was in the 60s and 70s combined with the marketing they use today.




GojuTommy said:


> Also I feel pretentious about accreditation but I think about it as a way for the local martial arts community to police itself, as member school head instructors would vote on accreditation.



Also

pretentious

1.characterized by assumption of dignity or importance, especially when exaggerated or undeserved: 
a pretentious, self-important waiter.
2.making an exaggerated outward show; ostentatious.
3.full of pretense or pretension; having no factual basis; false.


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## Flying Crane

GojuTommy said:


> I get that, but who gave the BBB their authority hand out certificates that basically say ‘these are good people to do business with’?
> 
> Like I said it feels pretentious to call it an accreditation board but something like a martial arts specific version of the BBB, if that makes sense.
> 
> Not credentialing a TKD instructor in TKD, but more like saying “this instructor has shown that they will teach their style in a way conducive to realistic self denfense and/or full contact sport sparring.
> 
> Hope that make sense


I don’t know how the BBB works, other than as a place to register complaints about unethical business practices.

But who gets to sit on the “board” of your group and hand out determinations about which schools are good?  That could become a Good Old Boys club in a hurry.  Better hope one of them doesn’t hold a grudge against you for some perceived slight from ten years ago.  See what I mean about ripe for abuse?

In the end, nobody has authority to govern martial arts schools, for better or for worse.  It’s a mixed bag, but I would not have it any other way.


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## GojuTommy

Flying Crane said:


> I don’t know how the BBB works, other than as a place to register complaints about unethical business practices.
> 
> But who gets to sit on the “board” of your group and hand out determinations about which schools are good?  That could become a Good Old Boys club in a hurry.  Better hope one of them doesn’t hold a grudge against you for some perceived slight from ten years ago.  See what I mean about ripe for abuse?
> 
> In the end, nobody has authority to govern martial arts schools, for better or for worse.  It’s a mixed bag, but I would not have it any other way.


Which is why I posted a link describing how it works.
It’s literally just a place people trust that hands out a piece of paper to businesses and if you break their rules they don’t give you another piece of paper the next year.


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## GojuTommy

Xue Sheng said:


> It is not new....it is back to the way it was in the 60s and 70s combined with the marketing they use today.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also
> 
> pretentious
> 
> 1.characterized by assumption of dignity or importance, especially when exaggerated or undeserved:
> a pretentious, self-important waiter.
> 2.making an exaggerated outward show; ostentatious.
> 3.full of pretense or pretension; having no factual basis; false.


Yes I said feels pretentious, didn’t say it was.

I’d be more worried about someone who felt they had the responsibility or right to accredit others no questions asked.

But is this how things happened back in the day? Cool, I always did prefer old school


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## GojuTommy

I’m just looking for a way for the martial arts community and marketplace to self regulate


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## Flying Crane

GojuTommy said:


> Which is why I posted a link describing how it works.
> It’s literally just a place people trust that hands out a piece of paper to businesses and if you break their rules they don’t give you another piece of paper the next year.


And they do not endorse any businesses.  What you describe, does.


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## Flying Crane

GojuTommy said:


> I’m just looking for a way for the martial arts community and marketplace to self regulate


It’s ability to do so is very limited.

The interesting thing is, those people calling for self-regulation within the industry are making the assumption that they would be part of the regulating body.  Careful that they don’t end up getting regulated right out the door themselves.

Kind of like those people who plan for end-of-civilization zombie apocalypse are assuming that they will be among the survivors.  That’s a big assumption to make.


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## GojuTommy

Flying Crane said:


> And they do not endorse any businesses.  What you describe, does.


They provide good standing certificates, which is all I’m really talking about.

BBB- businesses pay dues to join. If you abide by their rules they accredit your business as in good standing.

The BBB doesn’t accredit non-members and membership doesn’t guarantee accreditation.

My organization membership doesn’t guarantee accreditation, but membership guarantees access to the marketing services. And marketing does not equate to an endorsement if that’s what you’re goig to try to say next.

That’s all I’m really advocating.


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## GojuTommy

Flying Crane said:


> It’s ability to do so is very limited.
> 
> The interesting thing is, those people calling for self-regulation within the industry are making the assumption that they would be part of the regulating body.  Careful that they don’t end up getting regulated right out the door themselves.
> 
> Kind of like those people who plan for end-of-civilization zombie apocalypse are assuming that they will be among the survivors.  That’s a big assumption to make.


Not really a good analogy...civilization ending disaster is beyond my control.
My business and teaching practices are completely under my control.

If a regulating body turns against me I can adapt to be in line with them or launch a marketing/PR campaign to sway consumer opinion my way, if that fails I can still adapt to be in line with that regulating body’s principles.


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## GojuTommy

Disregard


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## Martial D

So I wrote 'misleading thread title' because this idea is not new. You are hardly the first young idealogue to come around with big ideas and good intentions, but like most of them I don't see any details or any sort of plan regarding just how you plan to do this, nor any specific qualifications or abilities to make you the one to do it.

It sounds like you want to make money off people's schools without actually doing the work of running one or teaching, with no real plan as to how to accomplish that.


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## Flying Crane

GojuTommy said:


> They provide good standing certificates, which is all I’m really talking about.
> 
> BBB- businesses pay dues to join. If you abide by their rules they accredit your business as in good standing.
> 
> The BBB doesn’t accredit non-members and membership doesn’t guarantee accreditation.
> 
> My organization membership doesn’t guarantee accreditation, but membership guarantees access to the marketing services. And marketing does not equate to an endorsement if that’s what you’re goig to try to say next.
> 
> That’s all I’m really advocating.


Yes but the BBB does not recommend businesses.  What you described, does.


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## Flying Crane

GojuTommy said:


> Not really a good analogy...civilization ending disaster is beyond my control.
> My business and teaching practices are completely under my control.
> 
> If a regulating body turns against me I can adapt to be in line with them or launch a marketing/PR campaign to sway consumer opinion my way, if that fails I can still adapt to be in line with that regulating body’s principles.


Either way, it is your plan to be on the winning team even if you need to manipulate it.

The local martial arts community could turn around and organize to discredit you.  That’s what im saying.  If you try to organize them, they might look at you and decide that your own standards do not clear the bar.

My point is, those who think they ought to be in control, need to tread carefully.


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## GojuTommy

Flying Crane said:


> Yes but the BBB does not recommend businesses.  What you described, does.


Where did I say I would recommend businesses?


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## GojuTommy

Flying Crane said:


> Either way, it is your plan to be on the winning team even if you need to manipulate it.
> 
> The local martial arts community could turn around and organize to discredit you.  That’s what im saying.  If you try to organize them, they might look at you and decide that your own standards do not clear the bar.
> 
> My point is, those who think they ought to be in control, need to tread carefully.


I never said I thought I should be in control. Hence why I felt kind of pretentious about it, however there are lots people being duped. They just want to learn how to defend themselves and some dudes who may not even have training in any art are out there convincing people their BS works. I never said I thought I should be in control, but I do think it’s a good idea and no one else has stepped up to take initiative.

(Also I don’t know anyone planning for a major disaster that is looking to control anything beyond their own safety...so again poor analogy)


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## GojuTommy

Martial D said:


> So I wrote 'misleading thread title' because this idea is not new. You are hardly the first young idealogue to come around with big ideas and good intentions, but like most of them I don't see any details or any sort of plan regarding just how you plan to do this, nor any specific qualifications or abilities to make you the one to do it.
> 
> It sounds like you want to make money off people's schools without actually doing the work of running one or teaching, with no real plan as to how to accomplish that.


Literally posted several service I’d provide from marketing to making a possibly bigger more professional space available, to even helping instructors with their weaknesses if it’s one of my strengths.

As for qualifications if you’re in my area and interested in my services I have no problem laying out my qualifications, and experience in detail. I doubt you’re either one of those things however.


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## Flying Crane

GojuTommy said:


> Not credentialing a TKD instructor in TKD, but more like saying “this instructor has shown that they will teach their style in a way conducive to realistic self denfense and/or full contact sport sparring.


This indicates some level of recommending a business.


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## pdg

Ok, so here's how I see it...

you said about people getting fleeced because "they just want to learn some self defence" - that statement itself needs checking for a start.

Maybe it's different where you are (which is where your local market research comes in) but of the people I've spoken in person to about it maybe 10% are looking for self defence - and that's being generous.

You've said about the harder (full?) contact side of things - again, that's a minority interest. People have to go to work the next day, do stuff with their families, generally have a life outside MA - not a huge proportion are wanting that level of risk.

You've also said about teaching kids - imo that's totally at odds with the above two things. Kids can only defend themselves against other kids for a start so selling "effective self defence" is a fleece by itself, and they should never be doing full/heavy contact at all.

Offering a space - that's all well and good, but logistics. It's not practical for different schools to share a room, so you're going to need a compartmentalised facility. It's difficult - you can't just have one room because one school might fill that at all convenient times, but having multiple spaces introduces the burden of needing to fill them to cover costs.

Then, who decides who is allowed membership? What if club A decides club B isn't offering "real world effective" training? Club A won't want to be associated with the same facilities or marketing approach as club B, but club B is prepared to pay the subs. Do you decline club B because they won't change their method, or lose club A? If it's a subscription service, on what grounds would you decline club B anyway and is it for you or a committee to decide? If it's by committee, then how do you intend to make a living if they decide your ideals don't mesh with theirs?

As for the accreditation - that's doomed to fail. If the board consists of a TKD guy, a kyokushin guy and a krav guy, are they really going to even accredit each other let alone that systema school that's just started.


This isn't knocking you personally, but I can't see the idea working at all.


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## Martial D

GojuTommy said:


> Literally posted several service I’d provide from marketing to making a possibly bigger more professional space available, to even helping instructors with their weaknesses if it’s one of my strengths.
> 
> As for qualifications if you’re in my area and interested in my services I have no problem laying out my qualifications, and experience in detail. I doubt you’re either one of those things however.


Yes, I realize you've listed a bunch of things, but you haven't explained exactly how you plan to do any of it. I mean, good luck, but I can't imagine why anyone would contract a random unqualified stranger to 'accredit' them.


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## Headhunter

GojuTommy said:


> Not really a good analogy...civilization ending disaster is beyond my control.
> My business and teaching practices are completely under my control.
> 
> If a regulating body turns against me I can adapt to be in line with them or launch a marketing/PR campaign to sway consumer opinion my way, if that fails I can still adapt to be in line with that regulating body’s principles.


Honestly in my opinion it's nonsense like this that causes problems in martial arts. I don't give a damm about regulating bodies or marketing and pr campaigns I'm just there to do martial arts and I believe if everyone just stuck to that there wouldn't be as many issues. I had someone once ask me how to deal with the political side of martial arts this was my answer "just shut up and go train"


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## dvcochran

GojuTommy said:


> Ideally it would be both options.
> 
> I have been praised for my ability with children for example and also spent 2 years before I enlisted coaching an MMA team after karate.
> 
> I’d also provide marketing and promotion of the schools, so the club house would be set up like a school in its own right with mats bags, strength training equipment etc. members can reserve the clubhouse or specific areas/ equipment if they don’t have that equipment or just need a bigger area.
> The club would also set up events with all the schools invited to participate and the public invited to observe.
> 
> An area one stop shop for martial arts basically.
> 
> In my area I’ve recorded a page and a half of local schools that I think would be interested which leaves out schools that appear to only target a younger demographic (5-16) but maybe they’ll want to branch out as well.



I assume you are in a large market area. Your idea of members using your clubhouse sounds like a lot of logistic problems. I agree it is a valid concept. You will have to do a lot of work on getting your local schools to play along. Setting up a "train the trainer" program in such a broad market will be tough and it will take time and effort for schools to see you as an asset and not a threat.


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## dvcochran

GojuTommy said:


> It seems rather than drawing issue with the idea itself most here seem to have a problem with someone being confident in themselves.
> Oh well created the account for some general market research, time to move on to region specific market research.
> 
> Enjoy gentlemen.
> 
> But yes as head hunter said it is intended to be a nice little money maker since no amount of passion alone will pay my mortgage and bills, and I’m not fortunate enough to be a trust fund baby to be able to chase things with no interest of profit. I’ve already taught without getting paid as a hobby, it was fine since the head instructor was already putting his own money into things to ensure struggling families had a chance to participate, but rather than follow his path of 70+ hours at work a week followed by a dozen or so hours in the dojo I’d rather just spend the time doing something I enjoy while making money to support myself.


Yea, so you have no money but have the means to create this elaborate facility full of equipment that everyone can use but you are not willing to put in the time to get there. Best of luck. Let us know how it works out.


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## Gerry Seymour

GojuTommy said:


> 1. Was only looking to see if the idea was something that would be generally of interest.
> 2. Over the years I’ve learned that a lot of schools have head instructors who are 1st and 2nd degree black belts, so those are the schools I’d primarily be targeting.(I won’t say a specific market share that fall into that category because I’m really not that far into the market research.) You are right it would be pretty silly to approach a school owner who has been running the school successfully for 20+ years at this point.
> 3. I gave advice to a business owner who refused to take my advice, that school is still open and likely will be for years to come.
> 
> I also did the marketing for the family motorcycle shop which had a successful 16 year run including a major up sizing until I joined the navy I’d say I do have experience. The shop only closed because the 70yr olds who ran decided they didn’t want to work any more.
> 
> My goal is not to approach well established schools that have been operating for over a decade, but there are several places locally that appear to be operating out of the basement or garage of the instructor’s personal residence.
> For a monthly, semi-annual, or annual membership fee they could have someone helping them with marketing and promotion as well as a more professional facility they can use to help to bring and keep students. (Let’s face it people with no martial arts knowledge are more likely to end up with a poor teacher with a professional looking facility, than a great teacher using their garage, a punching bag and a fold up mat)


There's certainly a need out there for those starting schools (and even for those who have established small programs, but want to do more with them). Hear the feedback here as most of it is intended: as honest assessment and alerts to risks. I don't know your age - you "sound" young, but may not be. Be aware that most folks have difficulty seeing expertise in youth, though there are certainly some very competent younger people. (When I say "younger", I simply mean younger than the prospective client.)

There are parts of your concept (I won't call it a plan - it sounds like you're still feeling out the concept) that seem like a good idea. Other parts seem problematic, and sorting those out is a good use of forums like this.


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## Gerry Seymour

GojuTommy said:


> I get that, but who gave the BBB their authority hand out certificates that basically say ‘these are good people to do business with’?
> 
> Like I said it feels pretentious to call it an accreditation board but something like a martial arts specific version of the BBB, if that makes sense.
> 
> Not credentialing a TKD instructor in TKD, but more like saying “this instructor has shown that they will teach their style in a way conducive to realistic self denfense and/or full contact sport sparring.
> 
> Hope that make sense


It's an issue any time credential programs are started, in any industry. I'm a Certified Professional Behaviors Analyst (CPBA) and Certified Professional Motivators Analyst (CPMA). Those credentials were issued by a company that one day (I don't know when) decided they would start issuing credentials. If they had done a crappy job, their credentials would mean worse than nothing. If they'd done a fantastic job, their credentials would be widely recognized. They fell somewhere in between, so the credentials are somewhat useful, but only to a small extent. PMI (Project Management Institute) did a better job establishing their PMP (Project Management Professional) certification.

In MA, it's tricky to establish any credentials. I'd considered offering instructor training (possibly with some certification), but it would be certification in the teaching methods, not in any specific MA techniques. Unfortunately, there have been a LOT of groups that offered absolutely spurious credentials within MA. I can't think of a good cross-art credential that exists, in fact (though there may be some), so I decided if I ever did offer cross-art instructor training, I probably wouldn't bother to offer any certification.


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## Gerry Seymour

Flying Crane said:


> In the end, nobody has authority to govern martial arts schools, for better or for worse. It’s a mixed bag, but I would not have it any other way.


I agree, but I don't think the OP has said anything that would rise to the level of "governing". His reference to the BBB is a good analogy. The BBB doesn't govern anything. I know industries where it's just accepted that it's impossible to get a good BBB rating (unreasonable complaints that cannot be resolved to BBB acceptance), so they don't participate, and there's nothing really the BBB can do about it.


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## Gerry Seymour

GojuTommy said:


> I never said I thought I should be in control. Hence why I felt kind of pretentious about it, however there are lots people being duped. They just want to learn how to defend themselves and some dudes who may not even have training in any art are out there convincing people their BS works. I never said I thought I should be in control, but I do think it’s a good idea and no one else has stepped up to take initiative.
> 
> (Also I don’t know anyone planning for a major disaster that is looking to control anything beyond their own safety...so again poor analogy)


It sounds like what you're really talking about is a loose association, since it really only affects members. Am I right?


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## Gerry Seymour

Flying Crane said:


> This indicates some level of recommending a business.


Any type of credentialing or certification does that, to that level.


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## Gerry Seymour

dvcochran said:


> Your idea of members using your clubhouse sounds like a lot of logistic problems.


Oddly, this is the one area I don't see a major issue, logistically. If the OP's business can afford to maintain the space when empty (an issue with any shared space: convention centers, meeting rooms, etc.), then it's just a matter of scheduling. My read of his concept on this was that it's not a space to rent for ongoing classes (that'd be a different idea), but someplace a school could rent to hold a seminar that won't fit in their main training space. If they could get enough rentals, it works quite nicely, and it might even be possible to outfit it to be usable for business meetings, etc., too, to increase rentals by opening up to non-MA use. It's a matter of getting it used enough to make it profitable.


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## pdg

gpseymour said:


> I don't know your age - you "sound" young, but may not be



Profile says 28, whether that's true or not?

Also, whether that's old or not depends on who is looking...


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## Andrew Green

GojuTommy said:


> My idea is more of a mix up of martial arts marketing agency and a club that will provide several other services.



Before you could even think of doing this you'd need to build your own thing first.  No one is going to look to you to teach them how to run their business until you have built your own highly successful one first.


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## Gerry Seymour

pdg said:


> Profile says 28, whether that's true or not?
> 
> Also, whether that's old or not depends on who is looking...


Agreed. That was my point about the age of the other person involved. 28 seems younger to me today than it did when I first got my BB.


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