# Authenticity of Learning Wing Chun via a Screen



## OnlineChunner (Jan 6, 2022)

Hi guys! Just discovered this forum and decided to talk about a thing and what I want to ask you all here. First off, *authenticity*. Where I live here in South East Asia, specifically in the northern area, there's really no legit Wing Chun teacher, as most practice MMA, Taekwondo and Aikido around. It is safe to say that the only way you can learn Wing Chun is of course, watching youtube. In other terms, they call it youtube university. I pretty went far at it, learning a lot of stuff learning, even learned Siu Lim Tao through Samuel Kwok, Wong Shun Leung and the original video tapes of Yip Man. It was on one year when this guy who learned from one lineage was telling me that all the youtube wing chun people are fake (that includes those who shows their moves on youtube, like legit students and masters). 

Question, so just because I learned from online, doesn't make me a legitimate wing chun practitioner?


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## Flying Crane (Jan 6, 2022)

What it means is that you have received poor quality instruction.  That isn’t the same as being fake.  You are a real human, after all, doing a real activity.  But with poor quality instruction, you will be unlikely to develop much, if any, real skill with it.


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## OnlineChunner (Jan 6, 2022)

Flying Crane said:


> What it means is that you have received poor quality instruction.  That isn’t the same as being fake.  You are a real human, after all, doing a real activity.  But with poor quality instruction, you will be unlikely to develop much, if any, real skill with it.


Thanks for your response. I recently went to a Sanda gym now, so I practice and spar with Sanda practitioners with my Wing Chun plus what I learn from them. Does this mean that the ones I have practiced may not be the genuine wing chun then?


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## Oily Dragon (Jan 7, 2022)

You can't learn Wing Chun online.  

But, you can be ushered towards the positive side of it.  

Then later on, use the online to make fun of it.  All in good sport.


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## Oily Dragon (Jan 7, 2022)

OnlineChunner said:


> genuine wing chun then?


Sure, why not.
_
"a Sifu can teach you the Tiger and Leopard, but only an Immortal can teach you the Dragon, Snake, and Crane!"._

Those last three are the Internal styles used to build Wing Chun.


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## BrendanF (Jan 7, 2022)

OnlineChunner said:


> Question, so just because I learned from online, doesn't make me a legitimate wing chun practitioner?



Depends on your definition of 'legitimate WC practitioner'.  Most people who have learned the system at all would say that you need to be shown it - in person - by someone who has it.  I know that the WC I learned was _entirely_ dependent on two person work, from day 1; I don't think you can develop the quality of movement specific to the style I learned, just by watching video.


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## Flying Crane (Jan 7, 2022)

OnlineChunner said:


> Thanks for your response. I recently went to a Sanda gym now, so I practice and spar with Sanda practitioners with my Wing Chun plus what I learn from them. Does this mean that the ones I have practiced may not be the genuine wing chun then?


Likely what you accomplish is mimicry of the movement without really understanding how it works.  As has been said, you need hands-on training with a good instructor.  There are a lot of subtleties in the movement and application that you will not pick up from watching video, and that makes all the difference. 

If you are using video alone, without feedback of any kind, then it is worse because it is up to you to determine if you are making mistakes or need to correct something.  As a beginner, that is utterly unreasonable to expect.


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## Xue Sheng (Jan 7, 2022)

OnlineChunner said:


> Thanks for your response. I recently went to a Sanda gym now, so I practice and spar with Sanda practitioners with my Wing Chun plus what I learn from them. Does this mean that the ones I have practiced may not be the genuine wing chun then?



Training your chosen style against other styles is a good thing. Learning online is questionable.


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## Oily Dragon (Jan 7, 2022)

Here's an example of something positive you can learn about Wing Chun through the screen, watching Joe Rogan's head explode on camera.


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## AIKIKENJITSU (Jan 11, 2022)

OnlineChunner said:


> Hi guys! Just discovered this forum and decided to talk about a thing and what I want to ask you all here. First off, *authenticity*. Where I live here in South East Asia, specifically in the northern area, there's really no legit Wing Chun teacher, as most practice MMA, Taekwondo and Aikido around. It is safe to say that the only way you can learn Wing Chun is of course, watching youtube. In other terms, they call it youtube university. I pretty went far at it, learning a lot of stuff learning, even learned Siu Lim Tao through Samuel Kwok, Wong Shun Leung and the original video tapes of Yip Man. It was on one year when this guy who learned from one lineage was telling me that all the youtube wing chun people are fake (that includes those who shows their moves on youtube, like legit students and masters).
> 
> Question, so just because I learned from online, doesn't make me a legitimate wing chun practitioner?


I have fifty years teaching experience. I studied Aikido, earned black belts in Tracy Kenpo and American Kenpo and am still teaching. I teach only adults so I can teach and practice all the techniques you can't teach kids.
The answer to your question is, no, it doesn't make you a legitimate practitioner. There is so much that you can not learn from learning on line. You need to learn "live" to be legitimate. Find a good instructor. You will  be surprised what you will learn.
Sifu
Puyallup, WA


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## Dirty Dog (Jan 11, 2022)

AIKIKENJITSU said:


> I have fifty years teaching experience. I studied Aikido, earned black belts in Tracy Kenpo and American Kenpo and am still teaching. I teach only adults so I can teach and practice all the techniques you can't teach kids.
> The answer to your question is, no, it doesn't make you a legitimate practitioner. There is so much that you can not learn from learning on line. You need to learn "live" to be legitimate. Find a good instructor. You will  be surprised what you will learn.
> Sifu
> Puyallup, WA


You keep changing your story. You originally told us your earned ranks were Blue and Brown in Tracy and American Kenpo and that you had self-promoted from there to 10th Dan.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Jan 12, 2022)

Dirty Dog said:


> You keep changing your story. You originally told us your earned ranks were Blue and Brown in Tracy and American Kenpo and that you had self-promoted from there to 10th Dan.


Where did he say that he had blue/brown in Tracy and AK? I was bored so checked through his comment history, and can't see any reference to that (although he does report sometimes having a black belt vs. 3rd dan in AK).


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## Mider (Jan 12, 2022)

OnlineChunner said:


> Hi guys! Just discovered this forum and decided to talk about a thing and what I want to ask you all here. First off, *authenticity*. Where I live here in South East Asia, specifically in the northern area, there's really no legit Wing Chun teacher, as most practice MMA, Taekwondo and Aikido around. It is safe to say that the only way you can learn Wing Chun is of course, watching youtube. In other terms, they call it youtube university. I pretty went far at it, learning a lot of stuff learning, even learned Siu Lim Tao through Samuel Kwok, Wong Shun Leung and the original video tapes of Yip Man. It was on one year when this guy who learned from one lineage was telling me that all the youtube wing chun people are fake (that includes those who shows their moves on youtube, like legit students and masters).
> 
> Question, so just because I learned from online, doesn't make me a legitimate wing chun practitioner?


Idk who we are to decide if you’re legit or not, but there are some things they may not teach you online 

I think Adam Chan teaches Wing Chun online and I think he works with you. , Not sure


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## Dirty Dog (Jan 12, 2022)

Monkey Turned Wolf said:


> Where did he say that he had blue/brown in Tracy and AK? I was bored so checked through his comment history, and can't see any reference to that (although he does report sometimes having a black belt vs. 3rd dan in AK).


I don't have the link offhand, but going from memory...
It was a blog comment. They also stated that they 'considered [themselves] a 10th Dan' but this was a self-promotion.


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## adamwilliss (Mar 30, 2022)

People like to talk $h1t. It makes them feel more worthy in the moment than they really feel day-to-day. But don't let anyone belittle you or what you put your time into. By definition, if you practice Wing Chun, you are a Wing Chun practitioner. If you feel you are learning and getting better that's what's important. 

However, you also must accept the fact that in order to fully learn Wing Chun and really get good at it, you also need partner-based Wing Chun training, not only online training. You need someone who can apply Wing Chun better than you…a hands-on person to help you, to pressure you, to uproot you, to punch you and get punched, and to physically challenge you.


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## MartialArtist1967 (Mar 30, 2022)

OnlineChunner said:


> Hi guys! Just discovered this forum and decided to talk about a thing and what I want to ask you all here. First off, *authenticity*. Where I live here in South East Asia, specifically in the northern area, there's really no legit Wing Chun teacher, as most practice MMA, Taekwondo and Aikido around. It is safe to say that the only way you can learn Wing Chun is of course, watching youtube. In other terms, they call it youtube university. I pretty went far at it, learning a lot of stuff learning, even learned Siu Lim Tao through Samuel Kwok, Wong Shun Leung and the original video tapes of Yip Man. It was on one year when this guy who learned from one lineage was telling me that all the youtube wing chun people are fake (that includes those who shows their moves on youtube, like legit students and masters).
> 
> Question, so just because I learned from online, doesn't make me a legitimate wing chun practitioner?


Just like Flying Crane said, his quote, "Likely what you accomplish is mimicry of the movement without really understanding how it works. As has been said, you need hands-on training with a good instructor. There are a lot of subtleties in the movement and application that you will not pick up from watching video, and that makes all the difference." 
What this mean is for you to go to the authentic Martial Art School to find the style you're looking for. I agreed with Flying Crane is to have 'hands-on training with a good instructor' that can guide you to correct your movements. What I would suggest is to find Kung Fu Martial Art School in your area, if there is one. Kung Fu school may or may not have Wing Chun class(es) that you can learn from. It won't hurt to ask around to see what other style they're teaching in one of their schools.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Mar 30, 2022)

OnlineChunner said:


> Question, so just because I learned from online, doesn't make me a legitimate wing chun practitioner?


You won't learn any WC until you start to train single sticky hand.


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## OnlineChunner (Mar 31, 2022)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> You won't learn any WC until you start to train single sticky hand.



You mean Chi Sao? But there's similar trainings in boxing. Or Full Contact sparring.


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## OnlineChunner (Mar 31, 2022)

adamwilliss said:


> People like to talk $h1t. It makes them feel more worthy in the moment than they really feel day-to-day. But don't let anyone belittle you or what you put your time into. By definition, if you practice Wing Chun, you are a Wing Chun practitioner. If you feel you are learning and getting better that's what's important.
> 
> However, you also must accept the fact that in order to fully learn Wing Chun and really get good at it, you also need partner-based Wing Chun training, not only online training. You need someone who can apply Wing Chun better than you…a hands-on person to help you, to pressure you, to uproot you, to punch you and get punched, and to physically challenge you.



What a great reply from someone I learn a lot of Wing Chun moves from. Thank you very much for your kind words. What I am currently doing now is applying what I have learned online in a martial arts gym, where we spar. Would you say the effect with training with a Wing Chun practitioner also, would be different?


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## Kung Fu Wang (Apr 1, 2022)

OnlineChunner said:


> You mean Chi Sao? But there's similar trainings in boxing. Or Full Contact sparring.


- Your arm contact on your opponent's arm.
- your opponent punches you; you redirect his punch with your arm movement.
- You punch your opponent; he redirects your punch with his arm movement.

I don't think you can get this kind of training in boxing, or full contact sparring.


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## geezer (Apr 1, 2022)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> - Your arm contact on your opponent's arm.
> - your opponent punches you; you redirect his punch with your arm movement.
> - You punch your opponent; he redirects your punch with his arm movement.
> 
> I don't think you can get this kind of training in boxing, or full contact sparring.


Yeah, other arts _do_ have tactile training methods that conceptually overlap with chi sau. Tai Chi has _tui shou_, Goju has _kakie_, FMA has_ hubud_, wrestling has _pummeling_, and so on... but these drills are trained using structures and energies specific to their own respective arts.

These other drills may be useful in helping you develop certain fighting skills, but they are _not _Wing Chun and will not teach you Wing Chun. In fact they are more likely to get in the way and impede your learning WC unless you already have a really solid WC foundation!

Kakie





BTW Gotta love the Taiko drums!!!


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## adamwilliss (Apr 15, 2022)

OnlineChunner said:


> What a great reply from someone I learn a lot of Wing Chun moves from. Thank you very much for your kind words. What I am currently doing now is applying what I have learned online in a martial arts gym, where we spar. Would you say the effect with training with a Wing Chun practitioner also, would be different?


Always happy to help. And yes, training hands-on with a Wing Chun practitioner is different. When you feel what someone really good at Wing Chun can do to you, you will see what I mean. There's nothing quite like it and once you experience it, if you're like me you'll become obsessed with being able to do those things too. Keep the faith brotha.


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