# Chi Kung form form muscle development and strength



## Curios7877 (Jan 23, 2021)

I'm searching for a chi kung set that has it's focuses purely on dyanmic tension. I would really like to know which  prioritises dynamic tension the most in all the styles that are out there. 

I would guess probably something from a southern style but I would love if somebody could enlighten me. Thanks very much for your help in advance. 

(I'm well aware about the fact that for a solely muscle building/strenghtening effect one is better of with weight training. But besides the fact that all gyms are still closed in my country just a thought experiment what is the set would do best for muscle strength/building?)


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## jobo (Jan 23, 2021)

Curios7877 said:


> I'm searching for a chi kung set that has it's focuses purely on dyanmic tension. I would really like to know which  prioritises dynamic tension the most in all the styles that are out there.
> 
> I would guess probably something from a southern style but I would love if somebody could enlighten me. Thanks very much for your help in advance.
> 
> (I'm well aware about the fact that for a solely muscle building/strenghtening effect one is better of with weight training. But besides the fact that all gyms are still closed in my country just a thought experiment what is the set would do best for muscle strength/building?)


do any kata very slowly holding maximum contraction  of the muscles or forget the kata and just hold max contraction of the muscles


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## JowGaWolf (Jan 23, 2021)

Curios7877 said:


> I'm searching for a chi kung set that has it's focuses purely on dyanmic tension. I would really like to know which  prioritises dynamic tension the most in all the styles that are out there.
> 
> I would guess probably something from a southern style but I would love if somebody could enlighten me. Thanks very much for your help in advance.
> 
> (I'm well aware about the fact that for a solely muscle building/strenghtening effect one is better of with weight training. But besides the fact that all gyms are still closed in my country just a thought experiment what is the set would do best for muscle strength/building?)


It all depends on what benefit you are trying to get out of it.  Not all of it is the same nor do they address the same issues.
What Jobo is referring too is more likely to improve explosive power of techniques.  The most important part that I would start with is understanding the breathing requirements.

Whatever you decide to do, make sure you do more than just copy what you see.  There's a lot more going on than just copying the movements and there's a lot of things you'll need to pay attention to as you do Chi Kung.  Even when using tensions there are things you'll need to focus on internally as you do it.


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## Tenshin (Jan 23, 2021)

Curios7877 said:


> I'm searching for a chi kung set that has it's focuses purely on dyanmic tension. I would really like to know which  prioritises dynamic tension the most in all the styles that are out there.
> 
> I would guess probably something from a southern style but I would love if somebody could enlighten me. Thanks very much for your help in advance.
> 
> (I'm well aware about the fact that for a solely muscle building/strenghtening effect one is better of with weight training. But besides the fact that all gyms are still closed in my country just a thought experiment what is the set would do best for muscle strength/building?)


Any wai gong posture holding does this. Qigong has both Wai gong and Nei gong practices. Wai gong is more tension pressure to build Qi, Neigong uses more relaxing methods to build Qi in a general sense. Yi Jin Jing is one of the most well known Wai gong Qigong sets. Most tension pressure exercises if done incorrectly or to much can have bad effects and certain people with high blood pressure, heart problems it is not recommended.


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## Curios7877 (Jan 24, 2021)

Thanks for the answers so far.



JowGaWolf said:


> It all depends on what benefit you are trying to get out of it.  Not all of it is the same nor do they address the same issues.
> What Jobo is referring too is more likely to improve explosive power of techniques.  The most important part that I would start with is understanding the breathing requirements.
> 
> Whatever you decide to do, make sure you do more than just copy what you see.  There's a lot more going on than just copying the movements and there's a lot of things you'll need to pay attention to as you do Chi Kung.  Even when using tensions there are things you'll need to focus on internally as you do it.



The benefit I'm trying to get out of this is a exclusively external strength building set. My background is Goju karate and I always enjoyed doing Sanchin to training and improving my muscle strength for the most I'm aware that the internal aspect of Sanchin also is important in Karate. But sometimes I only use the Kata as a dynamic tension isometric/exercise set.

Now I wonder if there is a dynamic tension exercise set alike in any Kung fu style that's main purpose is to build strength and tone martial arts specific muscle like high tension  sanchin in Goju Ryu Karate.


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## jobo (Jan 24, 2021)

Curios7877 said:


> Thanks for the answers so far.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


your really starting this from a false premise and as such can go a long way in the wrong direction, before having to spend a long time reversing what your done

ma are full body exercises, you need to work the full body in " exercises,"  as you need to develop the full body, not just the obvious ma specific muscle groups or you are leaving petformance on the table and may end up with structural imbalance,  which seriously effect your posture and general functioning in the medium  to long term

if your going to prioritise muscle groups start with where you have weaknesses to bring ballance back to your body, which with striking arts, seem to be the posterior chain. 
dont forget them hamstrings, just about nobody works their hamstrings, which may well acount for the suspiciously high number of people on here with hip and knee  problems


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## Flying Crane (Jan 24, 2021)

Golden Bell is an isometric exercise.  

I’m not sure you would classify this kind of thing as Qi-gong.  The Qi-gong I am familiar with tends to be relaxed, as heavy tension is believed to obstruct Qi flow.


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## mograph (Jan 24, 2021)

Yeah, sorry, if it's external, it's not qigong. Nothing wrong with either, just two complementary approaches. 

Regardless of categorizations, maybe you're looking for _Zhan Zhuang?_


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## yak sao (Jan 24, 2021)

Curios7877 said:


> Thanks for the answers so far.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Years ago I trained a form called Test Lohan Chin Chuan and got great benefits from it.

Also there is a form called Gung Gee Fook Fu Kuen from Hung style maybe?


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## yak sao (Jan 24, 2021)

yak sao said:


> Years ago I trained a form called Test Lohan Chin Chuan and got great benefits from it.
> 
> Also there is a form called Gung Gee Fook Fu Kuen from Hung style maybe?



Auto correct got me.....should be teet Lohan, not test


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## Oily Dragon (Jan 24, 2021)

mograph said:


> Yeah, sorry, if it's external, it's not qigong. Nothing wrong with either, just two complementary approaches.
> 
> Regardless of categorizations, maybe you're looking for _Zhan Zhuang?_



There is no external Qigong?

Then why do the Chinese have different terms of internal and external Qigong, huh?


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## Xue Sheng (Jan 24, 2021)

Baduanjin
Shaolin 18 Lohan
Shaolin 13 Lohan
Five Animal Frolics

will build muscle, but if the plan is to get ripped doing just those, likely will not happen


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## Curios7877 (Jan 25, 2021)

Thanks guys. I definately will research all those suggestions. To be honest I'm interested in something like Harry Wong's "Dynamic strength" or John McSweeney's "Tiger Moves" because I think that Mr Wong and McSweeney didn't got those ideas out of nowhere.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Jan 25, 2021)

Curios7877 said:


> Thanks guys. I definately will research all those suggestions. To be honest I'm interested in something like Harry Wong's "Dynamic strength" or John McSweeney's "Tiger Moves" because I think that Mr Wong and McSweeney didn't got those ideas out of nowhere.


If Dynamic Strength is what I think it is, look up Dynamic tension by Charles Atlas. At least on the western end of things, he was the one who popularized it back in like 1920, and I've seen it show up in shaolin-do with the same name.
No clue where he got it from, his claim is he got it from watching animals and learning strength-training from them, which sounds oddly like a CMA story that he might have heard from whomever taught him...


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## jobo (Jan 25, 2021)

Monkey Turned Wolf said:


> If Dynamic Strength is what I think it is, look up Dynamic tension by Charles Atlas. At least on the western end of things, he was the one who popularized it back in like 1920, and I've seen it show up in shaolin-do with the same name.
> No clue where he got it from, his claim is he got it from watching animals and learning strength-training from them, which sounds oddly like a CMA story that he might have heard from whomever taught him...


dydnamic tension is as old as strength training which is quite old, it does seem rather to come into and go out of fashion quite a lot and just repear with another name

the fitness industry  seems to have a down on it at the moment, the cynic in me think that it may be because you have no need to spend any money at all, which isnt at all what a multi billion ibdustry wants to enncourage


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Jan 25, 2021)

jobo said:


> dydnamic tension is as old as strength training which is quite old, it does seem rather to come into and go out of fashion quite a lot and just repear with another name
> 
> the fitness industry  seems to have a down on it at the moment, the cynic in me think that it may be because you have no need to spend any money at all, which isnt at all what a multi billion ibdustry wants to enncourage


Do you know where the idea was before 1920? A quick google search isn't coming up with anything.


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## jobo (Jan 25, 2021)

Monkey Turned Wolf said:


> Do you know where the idea was before 1920? A quick google search isn't coming up with anything.


they were called" holds" the only signicant change in the 1920s was to give it a more scientific name


Monkey Turned Wolf said:


> Do you know where the idea was before 1920? A quick google search isn't coming up with anything.


they were called "holds" the only significant change in the 1920s was they gave ut a,scientific soubdibg name, then isometrics,  then iso kinetics then yeilding isometrics , there another name now which escapes me at the moment, its all just variations on a theme, being rebranded

the barbell is the new kid on the block, before that they either had rocks or holds

my history of weight training book says they were big in the early 1800s when they either had cannon balls or holds


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## Oily Dragon (Jan 25, 2021)

Xue Sheng said:


> Baduanjin
> Shaolin 18 Lohan
> Shaolin 13 Lohan
> Five Animal Frolics
> ...



Of course, because the people who developed qigong were just trying to stay healthy and have average to improved muscle tone and mental state. Pilates and Yoga won't get you ripped either but they will do enough.

The "Getting ripped" mentality is part of the problem, most people who go for all that extra muscle don't need it to do their jobs, live their lives.  They do it to look good naked, so more is always better.

For those who do want more beef, you can always pick up and start swinging a heavy Shaolin Monk's Spade or an Indian club.  Or carry water.


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## Curios7877 (Jan 26, 2021)

@jobo that sounds very very interesting can you give me a little bit more input I tried to search for the holds that you've mentioned but I couldn't find anything of course I'm aware about the Charles Atlas stuff and the numerous other courses and their astronomical claims that were available back then but that stuff is to full of old school akward marketing for my taste. And I'm pretty sure that Atlas and those oldtimers didn't invent that stuff either. It's much to intuitve so I would definately not be suprised if those exercisese were already around in greece or rome because that dynamic tension stuff is very similar to many wrestling motions in my opinion. Would be very grateful if you can give me a taste of your knowledge of that topic

@Oily Dragon let me tell you I'm cross training in submission grappling and Bjj besides TMA training and I have to say that strength is still a very useful thing in combat despite all technique. But  I definately agree with you that I would always prefer to wrestle against a 180 pound bodybuilder instead of a 240 pound wrestler that isn't ripped. But strength is still factor in my opinion. And the people back then know a little bit about combat no matter if India, China, Rome or ancient greece


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## jobo (Jan 26, 2021)

Curios7877 said:


> @jobo that sounds very very interesting can you give me a little bit more input I tried to search for the holds that you've mentioned but I couldn't find anything of course I'm aware about the Charles Atlas stuff and the numerous other courses and their astronomical claims that were available back then but that stuff is to full of old school akward marketing for my taste. And I'm pretty sure that Atlas and those oldtimers didn't invent that stuff either. It's much to intuitve so I would definately not be suprised if those exercisese were already around in greece or rome because that dynamic tension stuff is very similar to many wrestling motions in my opinion. Would be very grateful if you can give me a taste of your knowledge of that topic
> 
> @Oily Dragon let me tell you I'm cross training in submission grappling and Bjj besides TMA training and I have to say that strength is still a very useful thing in combat despite all technique. But  I definately agree with you that I would always prefer to wrestle against a 180 pound bodybuilder instead of a 240 pound wrestler that isn't ripped. But strength is still factor in my opinion. And the people back then know a little bit about combat no matter if India, China, Rome or ancient greece












some of these are holds some are movements, but you can hold the movement at the hardest point or turn them in to yelding isometrics, by slowly releasing

and  there are a whole host of holdsthat take remarkable strengh to do in the first place, lije phanche, front level, l sit etal that you need to work your way up to

have a look through their other vids for different ideas, they have a lot on progresion


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## Curios7877 (Jan 26, 2021)

Very interesting thank you! Is there also something that works "muscle against muscle" like in Goju Ryu Sanchin with high tension. Where the agonist muscles have to work against the antagonist? I feel like that these exercises might not be the best for getting "jacked" one might from dynamic tension benefit for grappling applications


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## Xue Sheng (Jan 26, 2021)

Curios7877 said:


> Very interesting thank you! Is there also something that works "muscle against muscle" like in Goju Ryu Sanchin with high tension. Where the agonist muscles have to work against the antagonist? I feel like that these exercises might not be the best for getting "jacked" one might from dynamic tension benefit for grappling applications



Bruce Lee: The Art of Expressing the Human Body


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## jobo (Jan 27, 2021)

Curios7877 said:


> Very interesting thank you! Is there also something that works "muscle against muscle" like in Goju Ryu Sanchin with high tension. Where the agonist muscles have to work against the antagonist? I feel like that these exercises might not be the best for getting "jacked" one might from dynamic tension benefit for grappling applications





Curios7877 said:


> Very interesting thank you! Is there also something that works "muscle against muscle" like in Goju Ryu Sanchin with high tension. Where the agonist muscles have to work against the antagonist? I feel like that these exercises might not be the best for getting "jacked" one might from dynamic tension benefit for grappling applications


well,,,,,,, do you want to increase your strengh? if so those exercises are an extremly effective way of doing it with out gym equipment or more than a modest investment in time.

i find some of those extremly chalenging, if you dont, then your already very strong  and there will be a progresion for you

pick half a dozen and do them for a minete each every day for a month and your torso strengh will increase greatly, torso strengh is were all effective strengh lies,, strong arms and legs are usless with out it, even more so for grappeling applications

will you get jacked? yes probably,  if you do the same excercises as those guys you will end up with much the same body pattern, though being jacked and having significant strengh are not always or even very often the same thing

dynamic tension were your locking one muscle gròup and then moving it with another are great, but they take a well developed nervious system to work well, that is your already pretty dam strong ( otherwise your resisting a very weak muscle with an equally weak muscle and youl get nowhere fast like that)and have the capacity to activate the fibres  to get maximal contraction and the resisting muscle  to 99.9 % of the moving muscles which is harder than it sounds, but if you want to do them, do them, its easy, lock the muscles and move them, body builder poses are all you need or do them within a kata


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## mograph (Jan 27, 2021)

Oily Dragon said:


> There is no external Qigong?
> 
> Then why do the Chinese have different terms of internal and external Qigong, huh?



It's hard to tell if you're joking, but since you disagreed with my post, I'll assume you're being serious.

Context matters. My reply was valid in the context of the original question.
The OP wanted muscle building, *external strength training*. Qigong does not do that. Weight-bearing exercises do that.
_
"Qigong therapy can be of “internal” or “external” forms. Internal qigong refers to the self practice of mind-body-breathing integration techniques such as Tai chi or meditation. EQT _[External Qigong Therapy] _involves hand movements, similar to therapeutic touch, acupressure on specific points, focused attention (possible visualization), and other mind healing techniques *to direct the therapist’s own qi into the patient.*_" Effects of External Qigong Therapy on Osteoarthritis of the Knee A Randomized Controlled Trial

"External" can have more than one meaning.
Regarding qigong, it has nothing to do with building muscles.


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## Oily Dragon (Jan 29, 2021)

> @Oily Dragon let me tell you I'm cross training in submission grappling and Bjj besides TMA training and I have to say that strength is still a very useful thing in combat despite all technique. But  I definately agree with you that I would always prefer to wrestle against a 180 pound bodybuilder instead of a 240 pound wrestler that isn't ripped. But strength is still factor in my opinion. And the people back then know a little bit about combat no matter if India, China, Rome or ancient greece



I think you missed my point.  Qigong, Yoga, Pilates, are all bodyweight exercises.  Alone, there will be a plateau as far as strength training and that limit is based on your weight.  The bigger you are, the better.  If you're small and shrimp, you will become svelte and stalwart.

Because of that, specifically for smaller people, some systems like Qigong add extra (metal) weights.  These aren't part of the qigong, they are things people added to make the qigong more effective for building strength.

This is why elderly Tai Chi people just rely on their bodyweight, and beefier external Wei Gong practitioners cover themselves in stone, bronze, or medicine balls.


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## Oily Dragon (Jan 29, 2021)

mograph said:


> It's hard to tell if you're joking, but since you disagreed with my post, I'll assume you're being serious.
> 
> Context matters. My reply was valid in the context of the original question.
> The OP wanted muscle building, *external strength training*. Qigong does not do that. Weight-bearing exercises do that.
> ...



You're suggesting there is no Wei Gong, specifically the building body muscle, sinew, tendon, and ligament qigong?

Your knowledge of Qigong appears pretty limited.  

What Qigong sets do you actually know?  I can tell you which sets include lunges and squats, by contrast.


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## Curios7877 (Jan 30, 2021)

Oily Dragon said:


> I think you missed my point.  Qigong, Yoga, Pilates, are all bodyweight exercises.  Alone, there will be a plateau as far as strength training and that limit is based on your weight.  The bigger you are, the better.  If you're small and shrimp, you will become svelte and stalwart.
> 
> Because of that, specifically for smaller people, some systems like Qigong add extra (metal) weights.  These aren't part of the qigong, they are things people added to make the qigong more effective for building strength.
> 
> This is why elderly Tai Chi people just rely on their bodyweight, and beefier external Wei Gong practitioners cover themselves in stone, bronze, or medicine balls.




I definately understand your point, of course the bodyweight is the crucial factor in that context. But with a Isontonic dynamic tension exercise set like Goju Sanchin were muscle works against muscle the strengthening effect would theoretecially still exist in zero gravity because the resistance does not depend on gravitational pull of one own body. But certainly the problem stays almost the same when your muscles are weak than you train "against" these weak muscles and you would be able to get much stronger. Nevertheless my interest at a Chi Kung form that is mainly a "dynamic" isometric exercise set that has it's focus on the external strengthening effect (like the Sanchin of Goju Ryu) resides.Very Sorry for my horrible english, it's not my first language


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## minn8325 (Feb 3, 2021)

The issue with dynamic tension is Isometrics only make you stronger at isometric so you’ll develop visable muscle over time but none of it will transfer into moving strength.

Dynamic tension was the core of Charles Atlas’s mail program.

That be said I am a big fan of Tai-Chi because I like doing it.  It’s fun and relaxing check out - San Diego Tai Chi (Taiji)/Chi Kung Information


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## jobo (Feb 4, 2021)

minn8325 said:


> The issue with dynamic tension is Isometrics only make you stronger at isometric so you’ll develop visable muscle over time but none of it will transfer into moving strength.
> 
> Dynamic tension was the core of Charles Atlas’s mail program.
> 
> That be said I am a big fan of Tai-Chi because I like doing it.  It’s fun and relaxing check out - San Diego Tai Chi (Taiji)/Chi Kung Information


well thats not true, there is a disconect between iso and the full range of motion, but iso will increase strengh markedly for 15 degree of motion each side of the hold point.

its not the hardest thing to do, 3/4/5 holds and get the benifits over the full range of motion but where they are especials useful,  is where there is weakness in the power curve of a movement or you have a need to be very strong at point in the movement, such as straight arm push strengh and for muscle that only have a very short range of movement to start off with, like the pectoral


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## minn8325 (Feb 4, 2021)

jobo said:


> well thats not true, there is a disconect between iso and the full range of motion, but iso will increase strengh markedly for 15 degree of motion each side of the hold point.
> 
> its not the hardest thing to do, 3/4/5 holds and get the benifits over the full range of motion but where they are especials useful,  is where there is weakness in the power curve of a movement or you have a need to be very strong at point in the movement, such as straight arm push strengh and for muscle that only have a very short range of movement to start off with, like the pectoral


 
This is all true in powerlifting where the goal is to be tight and fast in a very specific range of motion under load.

not as much in unweighted whole/part natural motion.  Powerlifting, Strongman, and Weightlifting are stand alone sports with training goals for those sports.


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## jobo (Feb 4, 2021)

minn8325 said:


> This is all true in powerlifting where the goal is to be tight and fast in a very specific range of motion under load.
> 
> not as much in unweighted whole/part natural motion.  Powerlifting, Strongman, and Weightlifting are stand alone sports with training goals for those sports.


there can be a disconect between weight lifting and real world strengh, as real world strengh is as much about intermuscle co ordination as it is about the strengh of any particular muscle. and if the lift your doing doesnt match the real world it can leave you looking weak

but and its a big but, having strong / healthy muscles as a base and then learning to co ordinate them in real world movements is a more efficient way of going about things than focusing on the techneque and hoping your get stronger


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## minn8325 (Feb 4, 2021)

Sorry about all that I just found the ignore button didn’t mean to thread jack you with side conversations.


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## Oily Dragon (Feb 26, 2021)

Curios7877 said:


> I definately understand your point, of course the bodyweight is the crucial factor in that context. But with a Isontonic dynamic tension exercise set like Goju Sanchin were muscle works against muscle the strengthening effect would theoretecially still exist in zero gravity because the resistance does not depend on gravitational pull of one own body. But certainly the problem stays almost the same when your muscles are weak than you train "against" these weak muscles and you would be able to get much stronger. Nevertheless my interest at a Chi Kung form that is mainly a "dynamic" isometric exercise set that has it's focus on the external strengthening effect (like the Sanchin of Goju Ryu) resides.Very Sorry for my horrible english, it's not my first language



Maybe it's a semantic issue, because dynamic means movement to me, so "dynamic isometric" means...idk.

Consider Zhan zhuang, a pretty common qigong set.  I'd classify it alone as internal, static, and isometric when done on its own.

But in Tai Chi, the same is part of dynamic, isometric and isotonic combos.  You spend time shifting between movement and stillness in a rthymic pattern.

It's still internal, and stand alone is valuable, but it's value in Tai Chi is multipled for the reason JoJo mentioned.

Now contrast with Southern Shaolin Iron Thread, which is similar but is far more like Charles Atlas's idea of dynamic tension, making it internal from an external point of view, but defintely external from a Tai Chi point of view.

If none of that makes any sense, welcome to Kung Fu.


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## punisher73 (Mar 21, 2021)

Iron thread/wire is a dynamic tension set in some kung fu styles (Hung Gar/Jow Gar for a couple).

There is also a set called, "stone warrior" that was done by Green Dragon Studios.  It was put together by the head of the school, Sifu Allen and not a traditional set (I believe it was marketed as a traditional set though).





If your background was Goju-ryu, you can also train Seisan in the manner of Sanchin and incorporate the Hojo Undo tools used.  In the Shuri based styles (Shorin-Ryu), Seisan was originally taught as their strength and conditioning kata since they didn't use Sanchin.


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## Moriarty (Jun 4, 2021)

Sorry, I'm a bit late joining in this discussion.

This looks like it could be what the OP was asking about:

A Handbook for Twenty-Four Posture YiJinJing, by Wang Huaiqi









						WANG HUAIQI’S TWENTY-FOUR POSTURE YIJINJING
					

– 易筋經廿四式圖說 A HANDBOOK FOR TWENTY-FOUR POSTURE YIJINJING 王懷琪 by Wang Huaiqi [published by 商務印書館 Merchant Publishing House, Sep, 1917] [translation by Paul Brennan, Nov, 2017] – 編者小影 Port…




					brennantranslation.wordpress.com


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## laopai kungfu (Jun 9, 2021)

Moriarty said:


> Sorry, I'm a bit late joining in this discussion.
> 
> This looks like it could be what the OP was asking about:
> 
> ...


I'd like to second this recommendation. This version of the muscle change classic is what you're looking for. Unlike the 12 movement one most are familar with that use tension in a stretched position, this one uses dynamic tension in a contracted position leading to greater muscle size and strength. It is 22 or 24 moves long and is done from 12 to 50 reps depending on the tradition, although i rarely go beyond15 myself. It's a good set to keep in your back pocket and makes a nice add-on to barbell work. 

Iron wire and Green Dragons stone warrior sets are also worth doing as is their teet lohan qinquan.


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## Koryuhoka (Aug 18, 2021)

Curios7877 said:


> I'm searching for a chi kung set that has it's focuses purely on dyanmic tension. I would really like to know which  prioritises dynamic tension the most in all the styles that are out there.
> 
> I would guess probably something from a southern style but I would love if somebody could enlighten me. Thanks very much for your help in advance.
> 
> (I'm well aware about the fact that for a solely muscle building/strenghtening effect one is better of with weight training. But besides the fact that all gyms are still closed in my country just a thought experiment what is the set would do best for muscle strength/building?)


Goju Ryu and Uechi Ryu Sanchin Kata. They are Hard Qigong.


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## Koryuhoka (Aug 18, 2021)

Curios7877 said:


> Thanks for the answers so far.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sanchin is of Chinese origin. And IT IS a Hard Qigong. You already have what you are looking for. Seriously. You can do Sanchin and Tensho. You have it in your hands and do not realize it.


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