# Xingyi... Really...



## clfsean (Nov 8, 2010)

A ton of freaking fun was had yesterday doing Gao Xingyi. My forearms are nice & sore & even a little bruised from the app drilling we did. It's been a long time since anybody's made enough contact on my forearms to bruise them. Whatta blast!!!!!!

If you're not doing xingyi & want to do a no BS get to it kinda thing, stop, slap yourself & go find a good solid xingyi teacher. Then get the bang on...


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## Xue Sheng (Nov 9, 2010)

Welcome to the Xingyiquan "genuine, certifiable MA House O' Pain maniac" club :EG:

psst... and don't t ell anyone I said this...Police/Military Sanda is equally as painful to train :EG:

That is why I LIKE EM'!!! :EG:


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## clfsean (Nov 9, 2010)

I used to train that way with my CLF training brothers, but life causes things to change & I didn't have anybody to train with. 

Damn if I don't know & damn if it didn't hurt in that good way that only a MA'er understands. 

I like the guy teaching too. He teaches along the lines that I do. I don't teach as a "get fit" thing, so the only warm ups we do are horses & drills. If you want exercise, go to a frikkin gym. Al's there to teach us to hit & hit hard... no qigong or post standing. Straight to walking the roads & drills. We can do standing on our own & like he says, it shows if you do. 

Too bad for me it's only once a week. But that's ok... I got enough in that one class to last me all week.

Gotta go & decant my jow I've had brewing for a bit & get some more stewing. It's gonna be great!!!!


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## Xue Sheng (Nov 9, 2010)

Just when I thought I was out...they pull me back in :disgust: :uhyeah:


IMO Santi Shi is INCREDIBLY important to Xingyiquan. It is where that Xingyiquan hits like a truck thing comes from. But then I am looking at this from a Hebei Style perspective. I do believe that beginners should be shown the proper way to stand and I do belevie that the goal should be at least 30 minutes per side. 

However looking at this from the POV of martial arts class in the USA it is highly unlikely that you will ever find a class that takes 1 hour and dedicates it to only Santi Shi. 

My second Xingyiquan sifu made us stand anywhere from 5 minutes to 10 minutes per side at the beginning of class for the first few classes (He also got into Wuji and Zhan Zhaung from time to time) but after that he said it was up to us to train on our own. Then he focused on Forms, applications and other Xingyiquan drills. But all were painful in a good way IMO so it was all good training

But in Hebei Santi Shi is only the first standing posture there are others that are equally as important but I believe that they are more important to the 12 animal forms than Wuxingquan. Since I was only shown the tiger form before he stop the class I really did not get into those


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## Flying Crane (Nov 9, 2010)

clfsean said:


> I used to train that way with my CLF training brothers, but life causes things to change & I didn't have anybody to train with.
> 
> Damn if I don't know & damn if it didn't hurt in that good way that only a MA'er understands.
> 
> ...


 

hey, I feel your pain - pun intended.

I also was solo for a long time in my White Crane training.  Eventually, when a couple guys came into sifu's class who wanted to learn White Crane, he gave them to me and I've been working with them for a couple years now.  One of the first things I started doing with them, once they understood some basic technique, was to drill hands-on, impact stuff.  It hurts, I go home with arms that ache for days afterwards.  Getting your punches beat down with a hard Pek Choi, is just plain painful.  Takes the fight right out of you.  Now do it over and over.  Now take combos from the form and work them hands-on.  They hurt too, when you are uke.  It's how it ought to be done.  I love it, it's what was missing from my training for a long time.


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## Xue Sheng (Nov 9, 2010)

Flying Crane said:


> Takes the fight right out of you. Now do it over and over. Now take combos from the form and work them hands-on. They hurt too, when you are uke. It's how it ought to be done. I love it, it's what was missing from my training for a long time.


 
I think you just hit on something that has been bugging me awhile now. 

I am no Sadomasochist (although I am a genuine, certifiable MA House O' Pain maniac :EG but training CMA *IS* going to hurt if done right and it is a part of the training that should not be removed or avoided. 

:hmm: More to think about


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## Flying Crane (Nov 9, 2010)

Xue Sheng said:


> I think you just hit on something that has been bugging me awhile now.
> 
> I am no Sadomasochist (although I am a genuine, certifiable MA House O' Pain maniac :EG but training CMA *IS* going to hurt if done right and it is a part of the training that should not be removed.
> 
> :hmm: More to think about


 

YES!

Injury - NO, but training includes a certain amount of impact and rough treatment, and that's what you need to learn to use this stuff.  You shouldn't go home injured, but you should go home knowing you've been worked over.


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## Xue Sheng (Nov 9, 2010)

Flying Crane said:


> YES!
> 
> Injury - NO, but training includes a certain amount of impact and rough treatment, and that's what you need to learn to use this stuff. You shouldn't go home injured, but you should go home knowing you've been worked over.


 
This was a part of Sanda training, Wing Chun training and Xingyiquan training and a while back Taijiquan training but these days it seems to be missing from Taijiquan and THAT is what has been bugging me. Although Taiji is not dealing with impact as much as the other 3 styles in the way of punches or palm strikes but there are hits and no one seems to train them much these days. It seems that no one wants to learn it as an MA anymore.


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## Xue Sheng (Nov 9, 2010)

Now to get back on topic

Where does Gao Style Xingyiquan come from?

I am familiar with Gao Baguazhang and I believe it has a Xingyiquan form in it but I don't know about a separate Xingyiquan style with the name Gao.


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## clfsean (Nov 9, 2010)

Xue Sheng said:


> Now to get back on topic
> 
> Where does Gao Style Xingyiquan come from?
> 
> I am familiar with Gao Baguazhang and I believe it has a Xingyiquan form in it but I don't know about a separate Xingyiquan style with the name Gao.



Hung family from Taiwan is about all I know. Honestly I haven't looked into that part yet. Al's teacher is/was Allen Pittman.


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## Xue Sheng (Nov 9, 2010)

clfsean said:


> Hung family from Taiwan is about all I know. Honestly I haven't looked into that part yet. Al's teacher is/was Allen Pittman.


 
Then it appears that it might come from Chen Panling

Hung I Mien had a brother Hong Yixiang that was a Xingyiquan guy but Hung I Mein was a Bagua guy.


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## Touch Of Death (Nov 9, 2010)

clfsean said:


> A ton of freaking fun was had yesterday doing Gao Xingyi. My forearms are nice & sore & even a little bruised from the app drilling we did. It's been a long time since anybody's made enough contact on my forearms to bruise them. Whatta blast!!!!!!
> 
> If you're not doing xingyi & want to do a no BS get to it kinda thing, stop, slap yourself & go find a good solid xingyi teacher. Then get the bang on...


 Bam!


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## clfsean (Nov 9, 2010)

Xue Sheng said:


> Then it appears that it might come from Chen Panling
> 
> Hung I Mien had a brother Hong Yixiang that was a Xingyiquan guy but Hung I Mein was a Bagua guy.



It's Hung I Mien's brother... that much I know & CPL is in there somewhere because Allen Pittman also teaches Gao Bagua & I've heard CPL tossed around in their group.


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## Xue Sheng (Nov 9, 2010)

clfsean said:


> It's Hung I Mien's brother... that much I know & CPL is in there somewhere because Allen Pittman also teaches Gao Bagua & I've heard CPL tossed around in their group.


 
 Dai Wenxiong (Dai Xinyiquan) > Li Luoneng > Guo Yunshen > Li Cunyi > Zhang Junfeng > Hong Yixiang


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## oaktree (Nov 9, 2010)

Was Gao Xingyiquan taught along with Gao Baguazhang? Gao Yisheng studied Xingyiquan?

Allen Pittman I have heard some excellent things regarding his teaching looking at his books
they are well written no nonsense approach.

Clfsean I can understand why and how you got the "good pain" Allen's style seems to be very martial no bullshi* approach. 

Glad you enjoyed the training.


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## Xue Sheng (Nov 9, 2010)

I don't know about Gao Yisheng but Guo Yunshen did


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## David43515 (Nov 9, 2010)

Just have to duck in and say I`m jealous of you all. There`s nothing here in town but Judo. It`s not bad, but I miss getting hit. (In a way that only a MA can understand.)


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## clfsean (Nov 10, 2010)

Xue Sheng said:


> Dai Wenxiong (Dai Xinyiquan) > Li Luoneng > Guo Yunshen > Li Cunyi > Zhang Junfeng > Hong Yixiang



I reckon... I haven't inflated my water wings yet to go venturing. Plus there's the problem with the language & all... :whip1:


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## oaktree (Nov 10, 2010)

Oh it comes thru that way thanks Xue.

David in Japan there is Feng Zheng Bao who does Xingyiquan.
http://www.emptyflower.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=7940&pid=106796&st=0&#entry106796

I think Feng Zheng Bao is in Tokyo. Wang shu Jin taught many in Japan maybe you can find one of his students.


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## Xue Sheng (Nov 10, 2010)

clfsean said:


> I reckon... I haven't inflated my water wings yet to go venturing. Plus there's the problem with the language & all... :whip1:


 
Yes, you will have to give up the devil speak for the language of the Emperor since you are now training a real CMA from the north


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## Xue Sheng (Nov 10, 2010)

oaktree said:


> Oh it comes thru that way thanks Xue.
> 
> David in Japan there is Feng Zheng Bao who does Xingyiquan.
> http://www.emptyflower.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=7940&pid=106796&st=0&#entry106796
> ...


 

Yes Feng Zheng Bao is in Tokyo and there are a few videos of him on YouTube




 
But I thought he was Shanxi style... Shanxi has a high level very tight circle walking bit.


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## clfsean (Nov 10, 2010)

Xue Sheng said:


> Yes, you will have to give up the devil speak for the language of the Emperor since you are now training a real CMA from the north



It's ok... I'm already translating Ying Yi Kuen things to the language of the patriots like I'm doing with the Chan Ga Taai Gihk Kuen I do as well. Not everything works well with a lisp...


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## Xue Sheng (Nov 10, 2010)

clfsean said:


> It's ok... I'm already translating Ying Yi Kuen things to the language of the patriots like I'm doing with the Chan Ga Taai Gihk Kuen I do as well. Not everything works well with a lisp...


 
You do of course realize that what you are doing is just wrong: D

And that to maintain balance in the CMA world I may just have to go train a southern style and translate it all into the language of the Emperor as to save it from the devil speak and all that 'G' 'N' stuff 

On a serious language note (actually) I watched a movie with my wife the other day that was in Cantonese but subtitled in Chinese written Characters and I have to say Cantonese people talk a lot. DAMN I saw 4 or 5 words that in Mandarin would be 1 maybe 2 at the most. That and Cantonese speakers move their mouth considerably more than a Beijingren does to speak. It makes me tired just to watch a Cantonese speaker talk&#8230;and 6 tones&#8230; what the heck is that. I have a hard enough time with 4


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## clfsean (Nov 10, 2010)

Xue Sheng said:


> You do of course realize that what you are doing is just wrong: D



Yep... With a smile & a beer I do... :ultracool :drinkbeer
 



Xue Sheng said:


> And that to maintain balance in the CMA world I may just have to go train a southern style and translate it all into the language of the Emperor as to save it from the devil speak and all that 'G' 'N' stuff



Oh noes... not that!!!! They're already doing it on the mainland... ruining perfectly good combo of mudstomping MAs :btg: with a sissylispy dialect as opposed to it's natural, harder dialect matching its martial content. 
 



Xue Sheng said:


> On a serious language note (actually) I watched a movie with my wife the other day that was in Cantonese but subtitled in Chinese written Characters and I have to say Cantonese people talk a lot. DAMN I saw 4 or 5 words that in Mandarin would be 1 maybe 2 at the most. That and Cantonese speakers move their mouth considerably more than a Beijingren does to speak. It makes me tired just to watch a Cantonese speaker talkand 6 tones what the heck is that. I have a hard enough time with 4



Yeah... speak more, reduce confusion on what's exactly said or meant. Kinda like how we do it in the South anyway. :flame:

Look at it this way... if the whole country spoke the glorious patriots language, instead of the lispy thing that you have to wonder exactly what's meant, they could've done the whole freaking world at one shot since they would've been completely understood by each other!!


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## Xue Sheng (Nov 10, 2010)

clfsean said:


> Yep... With a smile & a beer I do... :ultracool :drinkbeer
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
As a Cantonese woman I once knew told me... southerners argue.... northerners fight. Based on that I think Northern styles must be better since they are not afraid to stop yakking and fight 

As Beijingren I know rather well told me...Southerners talk too much


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## clfsean (Nov 10, 2010)

Xue Sheng said:


> As a Cantonese woman I once knew told me... southerners argue.... northerners fight. Based on that I think Northern styles must be better since they are not afraid to stop yakking and fight



NorthernERs fight because of the way they sound. It'd make me mad too... BHWAHAHAHAHAHAHA




Xue Sheng said:


> As Beijingren I know rather well told me...Southerners talk too much



We do... we make sure you know what you're stepping into so everything is fair... :whip1:


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## Xue Sheng (Nov 10, 2010)

clfsean said:


> NorthernERs fight because of the way they sound. It'd make me mad too... BHWAHAHAHAHAHAHA


 
typical devil talker jealousy




clfsean said:


> We do... we make sure you know what you're stepping into so everything is fair... :whip1:


 
Well I guess Southerners need all the help they can get 

And for the record I was born in the South...way south...Lynyrd Skynyrd South :uhyeah:


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## Xue Sheng (Nov 23, 2010)

clfsean

How is Xingyi going?


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## clfsean (Nov 23, 2010)

Xue Sheng said:


> clfsean
> 
> How is Xingyi going?



Forward... how else does it go in Xingyi? :whip1:

Seriously pretty well. Lots of Pek Kuen (hehehe) & working on its (XYQ) version of rooting in STS & moving the root while walking the road. Then the best of all in my estimation... LOTS OF APP DRILLS!!!!!!!!!


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## Xue Sheng (Nov 23, 2010)

clfsean said:


> Forward... how else does it go in Xingyi? :whip1:
> 
> Seriously pretty well. Lots of Pek Kuen (hehehe) & working on its (XYQ) version of rooting in STS & moving the root while walking the road. Then the best of all in my estimation... LOTS OF APP DRILLS!!!!!!!!!


 
Piquan you devil talking southern speak person 

And as my second sifu always said "Xingyi doesn't backup" :EG:

Lots of drills is a good thing, you can also train piquan standing still. My sifu liked to have us just stand there and do drills for piquan, zuanquan, bengquan, paoquan, and hengquan so he could yell at us, tell us we were doing it wrong and threaten us that if he every fought us and we were breathing that way he would beat us down bad all and all it was pretty cool :EG:... damn I miss those classes


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## Tommy (Nov 24, 2010)

Thanks for a very informative post.

I am not a Xingyi Quan guy but I love doing Santi Shi as part of my daily Wing Chun training. I got introduce to this training by my friend who is a very competent Xingyi Quan practitioner. Before this I only do the yee gee kim yeung ma and one legged Siu Nim Tau but after a few years of doing Santi Shi my wing chun has greatly improved in term of generating power, rooting and relaxing. I have seen new people coming to Wing Chun wanted to learn all the forms as fast as possible but neglecting the basic foundation like stance training. Without rooting there's no art!


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## clfsean (Nov 24, 2010)

Tommy said:


> ....neglecting the basic foundation like stance training. Without rooting there's no art!



Yep... bat ma bat gungfu ... 

or for the sissy speakers... bu mabu, bu gongfu

hehehehe.... 

Seriously though... that's it dead up. No horse, no skills. Doesn't matter what your hands do or how many sets you have, you don't have a good horse, you can't have good skills.


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## Xue Sheng (Nov 26, 2010)

clfsean said:


> Yep... bat ma bat gungfu ...
> 
> or for the sissy speakers... bu mabu, bu gongfu


 
Sheesh ... more Devil Talk :uhyeah:


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## clfsean (Nov 28, 2010)

We did Chicken today. A bit odd & Al said as much, but one of the senior guys there had a question on it & so we got to tag along for the ride.


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## Xue Sheng (Nov 29, 2010)

the Rooster, I learned it from my first sifu as well as the other 11 animals but they were not exactly correct. So I generally feel that the only animal form I feel that I officially learned was tiger form my second sifu


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## clfsean (Nov 29, 2010)

Xue Sheng said:


> the Rooster, I learned it from my first sifu as well as the other 11 animals but they were not exactly correct. So I generally feel that the only animal form I feel that I officially learned was tiger form my second sifu



This is ours with Luo De Xiu demo'ing.


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## Xue Sheng (Nov 29, 2010)

clfsean said:


> This is ours with Luo De Xiu demo'ing.


 
Cool 

Xingyiquan in application is just DAMN aggressive...and I LIKE IT!!!!!


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