# What to do about workplace threat....



## qwksilver61 (Oct 15, 2007)

What legal rights does a person have in the workplace? If someone threatens someone at the workplace without a direct threat ,but nonetheless real
(in other words keeping things under wraps until the right moment) what can a person do to protect Him/herself? I was told by an Officer that someone would have to break the law *FIRST.*Sorry, but pretty stupid considering that a person would probably be mutilated or worse yet dead by the time they arrived.Don't really know this guy,haven't said anything to him to provoke him.He has recruited his friends,my guess;male ego thing,got something to prove,and like my brother said sometimes people do not even need a real reason. Any suggestions? please help.Signed,what to do legally


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## terryl965 (Oct 15, 2007)

Go to your boss or your HR department and see what they believe is your option, every company has pocedures in place for this type of stituation.


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## Bondservant (Oct 15, 2007)

Bring visibility to the situation by making things known to your boss.  Don't keep these threats being made to you a secrete.  Let him know that others know of his threats.  Pray.  Be very aware of your surroundings and don't get coaxed into saying or doing anything that would be less than honorable.  To defuse the situation with words and conduct is more powerful than trying any offensive defense.  Keep us posted.

Peace,
In HIS Steps,
Adam
PS. I will pray for you and your situation to come out good for you!


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## Brian S (Oct 15, 2007)

Document everything!! Make you keep a running record of what's going on, give times and dates etc...

Make sure other people know about this situation too.

This will help your case significantly.

I wish you well, keep us posted.


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## Lisa (Oct 15, 2007)

*Thread moved to General Self Defense to help generate better responses.

Lisa Deneka
MT Assist. Admin.*


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## rompida (Oct 15, 2007)

I agree.  Tell your boss.  I am "the boss" in a large distribution center - I've had this happen before.  Depending on the situation, your boss may give the person a warning or may just terminate their employment if it is harassment and can be documented.  companies don't want to be sued, and will do what they think is the "safest" route, liability-wise for the situation.


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## qwksilver61 (Oct 15, 2007)

These guys have total contempt for the supervisor,and there is no HR. I work for a Gun manufacturer.So these guys are laying low and definitely up to something (not stupid).Sometimes when you bring a situation to light it can have serious consequences.Florida is a very violent place to live and crime here is on the rise.The cop I spoke to was total textbook almost soulless,no personality so to speak of.She didn't seem to have any real capacity for reason or wisdom *all *textbook.All that I asked is what I could do to protect myself and my wife within the law.In other words;I need a real person to talk to.Next Sheriffs dept,if I don't like that answer well I'll move up until I get the answer that I want.No reason why shifty soulless thugs should rule that environment,all they have to do Is deny any kind of wrongdoing or involvement,c'mon who are we kidding,bad people with brains?


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## qwksilver61 (Oct 15, 2007)

I forgot to add;yes document, document it does work but I think I am going to need a lot more help.Thanks anyway


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## Ceicei (Oct 15, 2007)

I had a gun threat once by a client (he didn't display one, but threatened he had one and would do harm).  I had to report this to my boss who made me fill out a form detailing the situation.  This report is filed with the headquarters and with the local police.  With that on record, if my client showed up, even if it is just casually, the security guard and other workers on site keep a very close watch.  The police will come if needed since they have that information on record.  Gun threats, even if it is verbal, aren't taken lightly where I work.

I also have a concealed carry permit, and my work (only in some areas) do allow me to carry my weapon.  Does your work allow you to carry, and if so, do you have a permit to do that?

There may be a similar procedure with your work.  Talk to your boss about the specifics of your own situation, document what happens, and find out what other proactive things could be done at your work (code words with co workers, or whatever) if needed.

- Ceicei


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## still learning (Oct 15, 2007)

Hello, Read the book...."Gift of Fear" ....you may want to talk to a lawyer....talk to your boss.

People who  make threats ....than to make the situtions worst in their minds...the problems grows and grows in their minds...worst is when two or more people are involve against you!  The situtions gets worst.
(You mention you work for a gun manufactor? ...that means getting guns is easy) .....

Try to find exactly what the problems are? ...and see if you can solve it, with a lawyer/boss or police assistance!

Hope you can solve this sitution....other choice is to move "far" away.

In most States, only when the laws are broken...than the police will get involved.  Even "TRO"  don't do a thing against someone who is determine to get you!  TRO is just a piece of paper...saying someone has to stay a certain amount of distance away.  READ "Gift of Fear".......

Best to find out "What the problem is first" ....than try to settle the sitution! ...........

PS: Having someone threaten you is a very uncomfortable sitution to be in as Adults (especially at a gun manufactor)

Aloha .....


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## grydth (Oct 15, 2007)

qwksilver61 said:


> These guys have total contempt for the supervisor,and there is no HR. I work for a Gun manufacturer.So these guys are laying low and definitely up to something (not stupid).Sometimes when you bring a situation to light it can have serious consequences.Florida is a very violent place to live and crime here is on the rise.The cop I spoke to was total textbook almost soulless,no personality so to speak of.She didn't seem to have any real capacity for reason or wisdom *all *textbook.All that I asked is what I could do to protect myself and my wife within the law.In other words;I need a real person to talk to.Next Sheriffs dept,if I don't like that answer well I'll move up until I get the answer that I want.No reason why shifty soulless thugs should rule that environment,all they have to do Is deny any kind of wrongdoing or involvement,c'mon who are we kidding,bad people with brains?



Not knowing your exact circumstances, I can't say if any of this will help.... 

Try the union if you have one. As to management, if the direct supervisor is a zero, work up to the manager. That person or the CEO should be on your side.

No place of business ever wants the publicity of workplace violence... it frightens off customers and potential new hires; direct consequences can be loss of workers due to injury, quitting (or arrest) .... and soaring workers compensation premiums. Depending on state and circumstances, a ruinous lawsuit(s) could put him out of business.

In an actual attack... You have every right to call 911..... and consider consulting with a lawyer who has a reputation as a ***. If nobody will care voluntarily, get yourself a paid gladiator. A definite group of potential assailants will be deterred by the near certainty of losing everything.

I can't make life decisions for you, but also consider leaving that place and getting a new job. I think you metioned a family - no job is worth injury to them.


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## jks9199 (Oct 15, 2007)

qwksilver61 said:


> What legal rights does a person have in the workplace? If someone threatens someone at the workplace without a direct threat ,but nonetheless real
> (in other words keeping things under wraps until the right moment) what can a person do to protect Him/herself? I was told by an Officer that someone would have to break the law *FIRST.*Sorry, but pretty stupid considering that a person would probably be mutilated or worse yet dead by the time they arrived.Don't really know this guy,haven't said anything to him to provoke him.He has recruited his friends,my guess;male ego thing,got something to prove,and like my brother said sometimes people do not even need a real reason. Any suggestions? please help.Signed,what to do legally


You can't really get the advice and guidance you need on the internet; you need to talk to the local authorities, as well as your employer.  The issue of threatening behavior is very complicated; often, something that "everyone knows" is a threat doesn't rise to the legal standard.  However, your employer also has a responsibility to act to ensure that you have a safe work environment.  Report the problem.  Contact a lawyer versed in workplace issues.  Discuss it with the law enforcement agencies at work, and make a police report, if you haven't done so already.  

If you are attacked, you have the right to use reasonable and appropriate force to defend yourself -- but it's a pretty complicated issue.  It's also been pretty well thrashed out in several threads here.


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## Drac (Oct 15, 2007)

jks9199 said:


> You can't really get the advice and guidance you need on the internet; you need to talk to the local authorities, as well as your employer. The issue of threatening behavior is very complicated; often, something that "everyone knows" is a threat doesn't rise to the legal standard. However, your employer also has a responsibility to act to ensure that you have a safe work environment. Report the problem. Contact a lawyer versed in workplace issues. Discuss it with the law enforcement agencies at work, and make a police report, if you haven't done so already.
> 
> If you are attacked, you have the right to use reasonable and appropriate force to defend yourself -- but it's a pretty complicated issue. It's also been pretty well thrashed out in several threads here.


 
Ya beat me to it..The report is VERY IMPORTANT...


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## jks9199 (Oct 15, 2007)

Drac said:


> Ya beat me to it..The report is VERY IMPORTANT...


Yep -- the report provides objective documentation of the event.  It gets your side of the story down with someone who isn't involved...  Unfortunately, some patrol officers don't always realize when taking a report like that is also covering their own backsides, and need to be pushed into doing it.

I admit... I used to hate "silly reports" when I was in patrol.  Until now -- when I've got several cases where those "stupid" reports provided key leads.

If you're feeling threatened, and the cop seems disinclined to do the paper -- don't let them talk you out of it.  If need be, insist on the report.  Or even ask for a supervisor.


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## Drac (Oct 15, 2007)

jks9199 said:


> Yep -- the report provides objective documentation of the event. It gets your side of the story down with someone who isn't involved... Unfortunately, some patrol officers don't always realize when taking a report like that is also covering their own backsides, and need to be pushed into doing it.


 
How true..



jks9199 said:


> I admit... I used to hate "silly reports" when I was in patrol. Until now -- when I've got several cases where those "stupid" reports provided key leads


 
or when a situation becomes violent and the suspect plays innocent..It all there in black and white





jks9199 said:


> If you're feeling threatened, and the cop seems disinclined to do the paper -- don't let them talk you out of it. If need be, insist on the report. Or even ask for a supervisor.


 
Or go to the station and file..


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## MJS (Oct 16, 2007)

qwksilver61 said:


> What legal rights does a person have in the workplace? If someone threatens someone at the workplace without a direct threat ,but nonetheless real
> (in other words keeping things under wraps until the right moment) what can a person do to protect Him/herself? I was told by an Officer that someone would have to break the law *FIRST.*Sorry, but pretty stupid considering that a person would probably be mutilated or worse yet dead by the time they arrived.Don't really know this guy,haven't said anything to him to provoke him.He has recruited his friends,my guess;male ego thing,got something to prove,and like my brother said sometimes people do not even need a real reason. Any suggestions? please help.Signed,what to do legally


 
Can't really add anything, however, I can stress whats already been said.  First and foremost, you need to bring this to the attention of your supervisor, HR dept. etc.  Contacting the police is also a wise thing to do.  Having documentation of these incidents is very important.


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## Bigshadow (Oct 16, 2007)

We really cannot give you legal advice, for that, see a lawyer. However, reporting it to HR may be a good idea.

However, most people that threaten, rarely carry through.  Threats are mostly used to control through fear.  Those that would want to do you harm would likely do so without threatening.  

IMO, sounds like this guy is probably an older version of his school yard bully childhood.


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## thardey (Oct 16, 2007)

I can add a couple of thoughts re: the employer's POV. I fill the role as the semi-official HR/security position at my office, and I am the "filter" for deciding what situations get passed on to the boss.

Even if you don't have a designated HR dept, somebody there is responsible for making sure that the workplace is trotting along smoothly. Managers/employers hate bumps and distractions, it slows down production.

Of course, a whiner could be seen as another distraction, that's why you have to be careful about how you report the problem. Think of how you would want it to appear to a jury, and keep that attitude with your supervisor/boss. If you come to them with a "if they do this again I'm going to pound them" schoolyard attitude, you're not going to get much headway. If you approach them with "if I continue to feel threatened, I'm going to have to quit, I can't work in an environment where I am afraid" type of attitude, then you're keeping yourself on the "self-defense" side of the situation. (Think: duty to retreat).

If you do end up quitting, or if you get fired for causing problems, then don't think of it as a "win" for the other guy: Call up the employment dept in your state, it should be in your phone book, they have watchdog groups set up for this kind of thing. (If the companies are allowed to run amok, then the state will get blamed, and want to cover themselves as much as anybody.)

If you say you're quitting because of a "hostile" work environment, the pressure's going to come down on the guy eventually. If you get completely ignored, then the pressure's going to come down on the company, which will come down on the other guy.

We had a situation like that here, but not violent, that we didn't know about because nobody said anything. One guy just couldn't take it anymore, and he asked to move to a different dept, without saying why. We didn't find out until after what was going on.

So, submit a complaint, submit it in writing, date it, make a copy of it, and let your employer know you made a copy of it, and are keeping it for your own protection.

If that doesn't get a response, call the state's employment dept. They can get you talking to the people who know how to deal with this.


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## jks9199 (Oct 16, 2007)

Bigshadow said:


> We really cannot give you legal advice, for that, see a lawyer. However, reporting it to HR may be a good idea.


 
Excellent point.



> However, most people that threaten, rarely carry through. Threats are mostly used to control through fear. Those that would want to do you harm would likely do so without threatening.
> 
> IMO, sounds like this guy is probably an older version of his school yard bully childhood.


 
But, I take issue with this...  The dynamics are too complex to even try to address with the scant information here.  There are plenty of incidents where threats are made, and followed through on.  Threats of violence, like suicide threats, have to be treated as real.  To do otherwise invites tragedy.


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## Drac (Oct 16, 2007)

jks9199 said:


> But, I take issue with this... The dynamics are too complex to even try to address with the scant information here. There are plenty of incidents where threats are made, and followed through on. Threats of violence, like suicide threats, have to be treated as real. To do otherwise invites tragedy.


 
Very true..I been to too many calls where the now injuried says "Yeah he threatned but I didn't report it"...


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## tellner (Oct 16, 2007)

At the very least a solid paper trail makes your claim of self defense and your lawsuit against your employer for unjust termination a lot stronger.

Make sure the police actually *take* that report. Get a case number. Get in touch with the officer they've supposedly assigned to the case. I've been involved with more than one situation where they didn't and lied like a cheap carpet afterwards. Police these days tend to follow S.O.P. no matter what. It's the safe thing to do. It protects the individual officer. It protects the Department. That's why you got the zombie-like treatment from the one you already talked to.

Your company will not back you up if you are directly threatened and take the indicated action. They will almost certainly fire you. That's how HR works. Documentation of the fact that there was an unsafe work environment and that they did not take adequate measures to ensure employee safety will be very helpful.


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## Drac (Oct 16, 2007)

tellner said:


> At the very least a solid paper trail makes your claim of self defense and your lawsuit against your employer for unjust termination a lot stronger. Documentation of the fact that there was an unsafe work environment and that they did not take adequate measures to ensure employee safety will be very helpful.


 
The more paperwork the bigger your folder gets..When or if you have to walk into court you want your folder the size of the New York City White Pages..


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## Brian S (Oct 16, 2007)

Bigshadow said:


> We really cannot give you legal advice, for that, see a lawyer. However, reporting it to HR may be a good idea.
> 
> However, most people that threaten, rarely carry through. Threats are mostly used to control through fear. Those that would want to do you harm would likely do so without threatening.
> 
> IMO, sounds like this guy is probably an older version of his school yard bully childhood.


 
 I would take every threat very seriously. I certainly wouldn't dismiss it as what they probably might not do.


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## qwksilver61 (Oct 16, 2007)

Thanks everyone for all the advice,I felt a lot better going to work today.I did heed one persons advice to let everyone and their dog know what the deal was.I'm not trying to stir anything up here,just trying to get real answers.If it involved just myself I could probably control the fear better but all I can do is think of my wife.
I was taken back a little by the cops response;"well we really can't do anything until something happens" gee,go figure.Not every real situation is by the textbook or paper. I'm sure some people here can relate to a time when you could actually talk to people and get a human response,now a day everything is litigation & so PC,PC.I want to know are ordinary people really protected?Certainly some of you can relate.I just read all of your threads,you guys are great.I'll get through this unscathed,yes, cool heads prevail,but it helps to be aware of your surroundings as well.Thanks again for all of your input,Qwksilver61


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## Em MacIntosh (Oct 24, 2007)

Carry a tape recorder and inform them that they're being recorded.  This might be a technical loophole to allow you to place another tape recorder in a place he might go where he thinks it's safe to make his intentions known.  I hope this person didn't manage to find out your contact info, address etc.  If so, that's a failure of your business to protect your confidentiality.  Talk is cheap but if you can make it work it is the best rout.  Get a witness who can vouch for the insinuation, for what it's worth.  Too bad there's tolerance for people who make threats.  I think they should be calmly shot on the spot, the mess wiped up with a rag and the corpse turned into dog food.  If he had a family and kids he should've thought of them before he decided to die.


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