# Truth or Bunk



## AikidoCal (Jun 7, 2005)

Is martial arts a replacement or supplement need for religion?  Often times if you hear people talk you will come to understand people most of the time will be devoted to their religion for personal reasons like. 1. to cope with a tragedy, or life's hard knocks. 2. an experience; usually that of a life or death situation where they live and cleve to religion or spirituality of some kind. 3. Looking to feel a void of some kind that creates a need e.g. belonging etc. Point is the reasons are simple personal reasons and not usually intellectual, and the focus here in this discussion as related to martial arts is #3. 

Why do people seek martial _*arts*_? I think it is because it is an alternative to the traditional belief system, to fill a void that creates a need. Martial arts fullfills that need thereby retarding the need for an additional belief system such as traditional religion.  

Traditional or what we think of religion and martial arts are not the same. Some martial arts have religious influence such as Aikido, but Aikido is fundementally a martial art in design. Not being the same I think proves an opportunity for choose amoung those who intellectualize in some way religion. No everyone in the martial arts does this, but their art is looked at by them as a religion. Just as boxing is a religion. 

Is there truth to this that martial arts is a replacement or a supplement for religion by those who wouldn't normally be swayed that traditional religion is the answer, or is this just bunk?


----------



## Ceicei (Jun 7, 2005)

I think there may be some validity to your thought.  

 Some martial arts do have an internal component in which the person will seek on self-improvement while studying/training.  If being in martial arts helps a person improve in more ways than just physically, and there is the camaraderie that comes from associating with others of similar mind, this can become a sort of a "religion" for *some *people.  I know people who feel their "style" fits their needs to the point they don't need or want organized religion.

 I will say this much, I feel a lot of personal satisfaction in being involved with American Kenpo.  However, I also feel quite satisfied with my religion too.  I do not feel American Kenpo is a religion to me, but I do devote A LOT of time studying/training and American Kenpo is a lifestyle.

 - Ceicei


----------



## MA-Caver (Jun 7, 2005)

SIGH...
Martial arts is in no way shape or form a religion. I define a religion as a sectular belief and worship of a deity and at times is associated with ritualistic acts in the name of that particular deity. 
Martial arts does none of that. Martial arts has rituals yes but they are signs of respect to the art, teacher, dojo. They are not forms of worship. 
We all have rituals that we go through everyday, conciously or subconciously. The way we get up in the morning and prepare to go to work and our jobs and things we do at home. The way we celebrate holidays, they can be called traditions but they're also rituals. 
Dictionary.com describes rituals as thus... rituals:
   1. A ceremonial act or a series of such acts.
   2. The performance of such acts.
   1. A detailed method of procedure faithfully or regularly followed: My household chores have become a morning ritual.
   2. A state or condition characterized by the presence of established procedure or routine: Prison was a ritualreenacted daily, year in, year out. Prisoners came and went; generations came and went; and yet the ritual endured
Just because we Bow to our instructors and to a flag or dojo-emblem or whatever isn't worshipping it. We emulate cultural nuiances brought over from Asian societies. 
I think a lot more people would NOT be in MA if there were any form of worship involved that would possibly replace their current deity or faith. 
That people get involved with Martial Arts to fill a void is one of the reasons. But it not necessarily a religious/spiritual one. Martial arts *does help* refine the spirit but years later as a student grows from within as a result of their studies and practice. You'll find this spiritual growth/enlightenment in many BB's and Browns, but again it is not because of a religious significance. 
In my own experiences I've grown spiritually and have become closer to the God of my choice/beliefs. But that is not a direct result of my practice with the Martial Arts. Nor did I begin my practices to find a way to fill that spiritual void. I wanted to learn unarmed combat techniques and from there years later I became more in touch with myself and my own spirit that the awareness was what I needed to get in better touch with my creator. 
 :asian:


----------



## Flatlander (Jun 7, 2005)

What was it that made you decide to take up Martial Arts?

 For reference.


----------



## arnisador (Jun 7, 2005)

A religion? In most cases, no, though there are exceptions. But a philosophy--a way of viewing life, of finding a suitable ethics, and so on? Sure, it can happen. When I was younger I centered much of my outlook around the "First do no harm" (etc.) ethic of Okinawan Karate. Now I look back and find it a bit too simplistic, or narrow, to build a whole ethics on, but it filled a need for me at the time.

 Depends on the art and person and instructor, as usual.


----------



## BlackCatBonz (Jun 8, 2005)

MACaver said:
			
		

> SIGH...
> Martial arts is in no way shape or form a religion. I define a religion as a sectular belief and worship of a deity and at times is associated with ritualistic acts in the name of that particular deity.
> Martial arts does none of that. Martial arts has rituals yes but they are signs of respect to the art, teacher, dojo. They are not forms of worship.
> We all have rituals that we go through everyday, conciously or subconciously. The way we get up in the morning and prepare to go to work and our jobs and things we do at home. The way we celebrate holidays, they can be called traditions but they're also rituals.
> ...


by your definition zen isnt a religion


----------



## MisterMike (Jun 13, 2005)

BlackCatBonz said:
			
		

> by your definition zen isnt a religion



It's not, is it? Here is an interesting viewpoint.

http://www.mkzc.org/kubisze.html

Zen points and guides us, but doesn't have much of a doctrine. Generally it can be interwoven with a religion, such as Buddhism.


----------



## Gemini (Jun 13, 2005)

About 2 years ago, I asked myself this very question. Ultimately, the answer is no, but what I did realize was a significant increase in my self perception. I don't know exactly when, but at some point I began to look at myself more in depth. Began to hold myself more accountable. Things that maybe I should have done long ago from a religious point of view, but never really did. Not like now. It's very difficult to explain. I hope this made some kind of sense.


----------



## Blindside (Jun 13, 2005)

I view martial arts as physical skills, little more.  It has nothing to do with the supernatural, which most religions rely on for their belief structure.  

Lamont


----------

