# Branches of the Falling Pine



## MeatWad2 (Jan 16, 2007)

Where did this Villari form come from?


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## Gufbal1982 (Jan 16, 2007)

MeatWad2 said:


> Where did this Villari form come from?


 

Actually, you can see this form in a lot of different styles of martial arts.  It's typically called White Crane.  Here's a link to a guy on youtube.com doing it:


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## marlon (Jan 17, 2007)

I may be mistaken but the white crane form is the same as rohai and if this is so then it is the statue of the crane tha tit resembles and not Branches.  as far as i know Branches is a Villari creation.

Respectfully,
marlon


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## Gufbal1982 (Jan 17, 2007)

marlon said:


> I may be mistaken but the white crane form is the same as rohai and if this is so then it is the statue of the crane tha tit resembles and not Branches.  as far as i know Branches is a Villari creation.
> 
> Respectfully,
> marlon



Watch the clip...the guy is from American Kenpo


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## almost a ghost (Jan 17, 2007)

When I was taught it the guys in Vegas called in Branches of the fallen Pine, while some of the guy in Orange county kept on calling it the White Crane Form.


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## Gufbal1982 (Jan 17, 2007)

almost a ghost said:


> When I was taught it the guys in Vegas called in Branches of the fallen Pine, while some of the guy in Orange county kept on calling it the White Crane Form.


 
That's because if you read the forms taught, you'll find out that it's also called White Crane..


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## Matt (Jan 17, 2007)

Gufbal1982 said:


> Watch the clip...the guy is from American Kenpo



Actually, that's 'hainphan' from the yahoo.com shaolin kempo group. He posted that clip to youtube in response to a request over there. He tried to do it slowly so that folks could see what he was doing, and apologized as he had not done the form in a while. He lists it as a shaolin kempo form. I've never seen it done outside the style, and it's not a form from the shorin-ryu syllabus for sure. It doesn't look like any of the naha-te styles either (not their movement style).  Since the naha-te styles share common traits with the feeding crane kung fu styles, I'd guess we wouldn't see it there either. 

I'm pretty sure that's just another Villari form. 

Matt


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## Gufbal1982 (Jan 18, 2007)

Matt said:


> Actually, that's 'hainphan' from the yahoo.com shaolin kempo group. He posted that clip to youtube in response to a request over there. He tried to do it slowly so that folks could see what he was doing, and apologized as he had not done the form in a while. He lists it as a shaolin kempo form. I've never seen it done outside the style, and it's not a form from the shorin-ryu syllabus for sure. It doesn't look like any of the naha-te styles either (not their movement style). Since the naha-te styles share common traits with the feeding crane kung fu styles, I'd guess we wouldn't see it there either.
> 
> I'm pretty sure that's just another Villari form.
> 
> Matt


 
I know someone that's a Master in TKD and he has the form...I've seen him do it.  He has no SKK experience.  I'm going to see if I can get him on the forum to validify this statement.  FV didn't make up all the forms after black...although the ones he did make are rad.


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## Matt (Jan 18, 2007)

Gufbal1982 said:


> I know someone that's a Master in TKD and he has the form...I've seen him do it.  He has no SKK experience.  I'm going to see if I can get him on the forum to validify this statement.  FV didn't make up all the forms after black...although the ones he did make are rad.




Do you know what style of TKD he's from? ITF, WTF, ATA, etc. I'll see if I can track down a TKD curriculum from that style and see if I can come up with it too. I would be _very_ interested to see if that form came from elsewhere. It doesn't resemble any ITF form I know. It's a long story, but I sort of 'coached' someone during their prep for their TKD black belt. If it's a TKD form that would really be interesting. That would be great if you could pinpoint a source. 

Matt


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## 14 Kempo (Jan 19, 2007)

Matt said:


> Actually, that's 'hainphan' from the yahoo.com shaolin kempo group. He posted that clip to youtube in response to a request over there. He tried to do it slowly so that folks could see what he was doing, and apologized as he had not done the form in a while. He lists it as a shaolin kempo form. I've never seen it done outside the style, and it's not a form from the shorin-ryu syllabus for sure. It doesn't look like any of the naha-te styles either (not their movement style). Since the naha-te styles share common traits with the feeding crane kung fu styles, I'd guess we wouldn't see it there either.
> 
> I'm pretty sure that's just another Villari form.
> 
> Matt


 
I know this form, or at least a very close rendition of it, as White Crane ... I'm former FVSSD and currently USSD. Although I was learning some pine tree techniques way back when, I did not have this form when with FVSSD.


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## Matt (Jan 19, 2007)

14 Kempo said:


> I know this form, or at least a very close rendition of it, as White Crane ... I'm former FVSSD and currently USSD. Although I was learning some pine tree techniques way back when, I did not have this form when with FVSSD.



But you learned it in the context of USSD / Shaolin Kempo, yes?


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## 14 Kempo (Jan 19, 2007)

Matt said:


> But you learned it in the context of USSD / Shaolin Kempo, yes?


 
Correct ... USSD

As I see the form, Branches of the Falling Pine, from a video I have that I think is an FV influence, it doesn't look much like what I have as White Crane. The form as it is shown on the 'YouTube' link does look a lot like the USSD version of White Crane.


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## Matt (Jan 19, 2007)

14 Kempo said:


> Correct ... USSD
> 
> As I see the form, Branches of the Falling Pine, from a video I have that I think is an FV influence, it doesn't look much like what I have as White Crane. The form as it is shown on the 'YouTube' link does look a lot like the USSD version of White Crane.



Is the other one that you saw done by Ken Warner? He had it on his site for a while. His version looks similar, but is done much faster  and  more explosively. His school is now called evolution karate, but when he went up through the ranks, he was with FVSSD with my first instructor, and was one of the schools that left FVSSD for USSD with Demasco in the early 90's. He has lots of good info at his site. Maybe if we ask nicely he'll put the video back online for compare and contrast. 

Matt


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## marlon (Jan 19, 2007)

Matt said:


> Is the other one that you saw done by Ken Warner? He had it on his site for a while. His version looks similar, but is done much faster and more explosively. His school is now called evolution karate, but when he went up through the ranks, he was with FVSSD with my first instructor, and was one of the schools that left FVSSD for USSD with Demasco in the early 90's. He has lots of good info at his site. Maybe if we ask nicely he'll put the video back online for compare and contrast.
> 
> Matt


 

Matt i have Ken's version on my computer and it is very different i find from the you tube version
marlon


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## Matt (Jan 19, 2007)

marlon said:


> Matt i have Ken's version on my computer and it is very different i find from the you tube version
> marlon



I just found it on mine too (too much stuff - must get organized!) and I'll take a look side by side shortly. 

Matt


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## RevIV (Jan 19, 2007)

if i remember right the one done on Ken Warners site is done by one of his female black belts and it has a lot of the tai chi coiling movements in it.  I actually have the DVD put out from when he was Kempokan.
In Peace
Jesse


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## SK101 (Feb 11, 2007)

Gufbal1982 said:


> That's because if you read the forms taught, you'll find out that it's also called White Crane..



It must have been nice to receive the secret handbook of material above Shodan. I never received anything with the names of the forms written down above Shodan. I did here branches referred to as white crane however.


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## SK101 (Feb 11, 2007)

marlon said:


> Matt i have Ken's version on my computer and it is very different i find from the you tube version
> marlon



Hello Marlon, 

   Do you find the Kempokan versions of 5 Dragons and Tai Sai Mong extremly different from the Professor I version?


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## marlon (Feb 11, 2007)

SK101 said:


> Hello Marlon,
> 
> Do you find the Kempokan versions of 5 Dragons and Tai Sai Mong extremly different from the Professor I version?


 
I do not have kempokan's 5 dragons nor tai sing mon.  the branches of the falling pine i have were done by a man i assume is Ken Warner and although recognizable as Branches it is very at least done very differently...more like the version of invincible wall i have.

Marlon


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## marlon (Feb 13, 2007)

Gufbal1982 said:


> Watch the clip...the guy is from American Kenpo


 

i have discussed with the gentleman before and he learned the form when he was studying shaolin kempo

marlon


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## marlon (Feb 13, 2007)

RevIV said:


> if i remember right the one done on Ken Warners site is done by one of his female black belts and it has a lot of the tai chi coiling movements in it. I actually have the DVD put out from when he was Kempokan.
> In Peace
> Jesse


 

the form as i have does use a lot of waist movement to generate power both linear and coiling.  When done fast these movements are easy to miss but the 'feel' of doing them is quite distinct and lets ,this form stand out with a unique flavour

marlon


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## Gufbal1982 (Feb 13, 2007)

SK101 said:


> It must have been nice to receive the secret handbook of material above Shodan. I never received anything with the names of the forms written down above Shodan. I did here branches referred to as white crane however.


 
I don't have a secret handbook, I just trained at an FV studio with the scroll on it that had the names of the forms.  I'm not trying to be arrogant, I just remember reading it first hand from my old instructor.


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## marlon (Feb 13, 2007)

there is another Okinawan white crane form called Hakutsuru.

marlon


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## Gufbal1982 (Feb 13, 2007)

marlon said:


> there is another Okinawan white crane form called Hakutsuru.
> 
> marlon


 
Is there link to see it?  That would be rad if there is...


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## Gufbal1982 (Feb 13, 2007)

Matt said:


> Do you know what style of TKD he's from? ITF, WTF, ATA, etc. I'll see if I can track down a TKD curriculum from that style and see if I can come up with it too. I would be _very_ interested to see if that form came from elsewhere. It doesn't resemble any ITF form I know. It's a long story, but I sort of 'coached' someone during their prep for their TKD black belt. If it's a TKD form that would really be interesting. That would be great if you could pinpoint a source.
> 
> Matt



Matt,

The guy that I know that has the form is a banned user on here.  On his profile he's claiming Tang Soo Do, Shantug Black Tiger and Taiji.  I know he's a TKD Master and I hung out with him a couple times.  He's a cool guy.  However, I know he had the form from either TKD or TSD (forgot he was a master in that too) because he asked to see a guy named Mario Camardella to do a form when he switched from SKK to his style, to test out his skills.  Mario did Branches of the Falling Pines and Frank asked him where he learned it.  Frank then did the same form, with minor changes, and the root was still there.  That's how I know the form is in other styles.


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## SK101 (Jan 5, 2009)

marlon said:


> I may be mistaken but the white crane form is the same as rohai and if this is so then it is the statue of the crane tha tit resembles and not Branches. as far as i know Branches is a Villari creation.
> 
> Respectfully,
> marlon


 
I don't know the history of branches, but with USSD branches of the falling pine and white crane are two names for the same form. Have you ever asked  prof. I if he also uses both names?


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