# what is ocho ocho



## thekuntawman (Jan 30, 2002)

ocho ocho is another name for the style called singko tiro.there is five strikes, four slashings ("X" pattern) and a poke or a downward hit, depends to who is teaching it. sinko tiro (as they call it in cebu and the visayas) is known for having almost no opposite empty handed techniques, because it was made for heavy sticks and blades, they rather use a second blade, and this is the source of many espada at daga techniuqes. almost all styles from the south contain some parts of singko tiro. how you can tell, is if you have a basic 6 hits (or 12, 15 18, whatever) then you have a second set of hits consists of 5 hits, than your style uses ocho ocho. it is also known for a low wide fighting stance, and they rely on head and body weaving instead of a lot of footwork.

many people usually only have the sideways "8", which they call ocho ocho, but that is only a small part of a whole style.


----------



## Icepick (Jan 30, 2002)

Thank you!

I think Professor Presas did a lot of that, integrating a little bit of various styles into Modern Arnis.  I understand the Palis-palis is a complete system also.  However, I only have a few techniques of it.


----------



## arnisador (Jan 30, 2002)

> _Originally posted by thekuntawman _
> *many people usually only have the sideways "8", which they call ocho ocho, but that is only a small part of a whole style. *



I agree with Icepick--in Modern Arnis we have the small part you mention, and similarly palis-palis is a technique (with variations) in Modern Arnis. Thanks for fleshing this out for us.


----------



## Cthulhu (Jan 30, 2002)

> _Originally posted by thekuntawman _
> *ocho ocho is another name for the style called singko tiro.there is five strikes, four slashings ("X" pattern) and a poke or a downward hit, depends to who is teaching it. sinko tiro (as they call it in cebu and the visayas) singko tiro. *



Is this the same as _cinco terra/tiro_?  I've seen the same striking pattern you've described, but I've heard it was from cinco terra.  I'm guessing it's just a different pronunciation of the same thing.

Thanks for the description!

Cthulhu


----------



## arnisador (Feb 2, 2002)

Knowing that just a small amount of palis-palis etc. made it into Modern Arnis, I wonder if Tapi-Tapi is also a full system that we see only parts of in Prof. Presas' system?


----------



## Icepick (Feb 3, 2002)

Just an educated guess, but I think that Tapi-tapi is Balintawak, with Professor's own twist.  The blocking is straight Balintawak, when I showed my 1st Balintawak teacher (Fran Regner in Syracuse) he looked very surprised and said "Remy showed you that?".  The main difference is that Manong Ted will never grab your stick.  Remy liked to grab, use the punyo and turn it into a ton of locks.

As a side note, it may be Balintawak the way Mongcal or Marranga taught it, before Remy started training with Anciong.  I begged Remy to show me his Balintawak several times, but never got very far.


----------



## Tapps (Feb 5, 2002)

Tapi - Tapi as Remy taught it just means counter for counter.

He stressed different things at different times depending on what he was teaching.

When I first learned Tapi - Tapi it was much more in a Balintawak style.

It later became more of a lock flow set. This is the version the "Tapi-Tapi masters" practice.

The truth is it was just a back and fouth vehicle Remy used to teach technique


----------



## arnisador (Feb 6, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Tapps _
> *When I first learned Tapi - Tapi it was much more in a Balintawak style.
> 
> It later became more of a lock flow set. This is the version the "Tapi-Tapi masters" practice.*



I have no direct knowledge of Balintawak. Can you explain what the Balintawak style of tapi-tapi would be?


----------



## Icepick (Feb 7, 2002)

I think Mr. Tapps is referring to an emphasis on the strong block, using simultaneous hand check, followed by a return strike.  Recent seminars put more emphasis on using the stick to lock, "dummy locks" and flowing from one lock to another.

But I don't want to speak for him, he's bigger than me...


----------



## Tapps (Feb 8, 2002)

Yea ... that's about it.

When I learned Tapi-Tapi it started from the first sinawali (4 count, 1 stick).  One person would break out of the drill (usually with a 6 or 7 thrust) and it would become a block, check, counter kind of thing. Advanced students would add locks, throws, strikes and it would eventually lead to a free flow sparring.

Later Professor used the same sinawali to teach a lot of the stick locking and some flow sets. The emphasis was more on the locking than combative stick movements. He also called this "Tapi-Tapi"

Confused ?  Me to. 

I think Professor didn't bother to draw a distinction because to him it was all a slice of the same pie. I also think his english wasn't the best and he didn't want to bother thinking up a new term. (I am DAMN sure he knew what he ment).


I won't get into the whole " Master of Tapi-Tapi thing" I think that's being discussed elsewhere.


----------

