# Tracy Kenpo........scared it's not for me.



## Zeke01 (Aug 24, 2003)

Hello all, I'm new to the forum.

Well, I just joined a Tracy Karate school here in Cincy, OH.  I went to my first group class and was totally lost.  The instructor was going through different moves in different belts and I just followed the best I could.  I was expecting more seperate work with each belt classes like my old TKD classes, but I guess that's what the 2-half hour private classes are for(but that still doesn't seem enough).  I guess I'm just worried how I will do in this system.  I heard that they don't spar because of the "vital" blows.  Sparring doesn't necessarily have to be used, but maybe some sort of one on one where stikes are pulled.  I just don't think striking at the air pretending to strike someone will benefit me when I'm really attached by someone.  Or, maybe it's just because it was my first class....LOL!!  I'm just hesitant and scared and want to make sure that I won't be wasting my time.  I want the best I can get out of my training and am REALLY serious about it.  I was in TKD when I was in H.S.(I'm 27 now) and had to stop at a purple belt due to the school closing.  Well, anyways, I was just wondering if any of the other Tracy schools incorporated some sort of "one on one" training where the strikes/punches/kicks are pulled before contact.  I think I learn better doing this kind of training.

I got my love for Kenpo from watching a movie we all know so well.  Well, I was watching the FAMOUS "The Perfect Weapon" movie with Jeff Speakman and noticed how they trained in that movie...........EXACTLY the class style I'm looking for.  The students actually worked out with one another.  I'm sorry to drag this out, but I'm just wanting to know if it's this particular dojo or is all of the Tracy Kenpo schools against the students "safely" practicing the moves with one another.

I in no way mean any disrespect to the Tracy System.  I'm just very new to this style and am AFRAID it might not suit my training needs or how I like or want to be trained/taught!   Thank you all for listening to my "newbie" post.:asian:


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## Bob Hubbard (Aug 24, 2003)

Welcome.
 We've got a number of Tracy folks here who I'm sure can help ya out.


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## Nightingale (Aug 24, 2003)

talk to Tess and Seig... they used to do Tracy stuff and can probably give you a lot of info.  They've since switched to Ed Parker's Kenpo, but both systems have good points.


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## Michael Billings (Aug 25, 2003)

The Tracy model has alway had group classes with private lessons for material.  So at first it is a little slow, while you learn, or in your case, modify and add to basics you already are familiar with.

But then it takes off material-wise.  You can definitly learn more than one technique per private, or a lot more of a form (kata), in private lessons than as a group.  

I like this model, although I do not use it.

-Michael


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## Sigung86 (Aug 25, 2003)

Having been doing Tracy's for a few weeks now... You'll be ok.  You probably should have been started in Private lesson milieu first so that you could have gotten your basics and introduction and had questions answered.  However, not my school, and don't know how they run things.

I think you will find that the 1/2 hour privatae lessons will keep you pretty busy.  You can have lots o' stuff dumped in your head in 30 minutes, believe it or not.  What's really more important in that consideration is your ability to absorb the useful information.  Half hour intense training is probably pretty reasonable.

Group classes are, frankly, not the place to learn anything, in the Tracy Philosophy.  It is a place to work on sharpening what you know.

Sparring?  Don't know... Again, not my school.  My students spar with either no gear or light gear, but then I teach privately in my home and don't charge for lessons.

Hope this helps a bit, if not, feel free to talk to your instructor in a private setting.  Don't feel bad about expressing your fears and thoughts to her/him.  That's why they get paid the big bucks. :lol:

And feel free to shoot me an email anytime you feel like I can be of service.

Take care, and  as Clyde says, 
Have a great Kenpo Day!!!!

Dan Farmer
RokuDan 
Tracy International


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## Seig (Aug 25, 2003)

Zeke,
Since I am not in posession of all the facts, I have to limit my comments somewhat.  I would say give the school a couple of three weeks to see if you start to feel more comfortable with it.  AS for the no sparring, I would have to seriously question that.   If you want, feel free to e-mail or PM me and we can talk in more depth.


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## redfang (Aug 25, 2003)

I've trained at two different Tracy schools and have learned that they can be run quite differently. My first experience was at a school where the basic Tracy curriculum was followed very closely. Most new material was learned during individual classes. Kumite or your standard tournament/ point style sparring happened a couple of times a week. Where I am now, the head instructor will mix up the curriculum somewhat, depending on what he feels will be most useful to individual students. Once again, new material is learned mostly in the individual classes, but not exclusively. We do not spar tournament style all (or play tag as the instructor calls it.) We do however, have shootfighting classes that include striking and grappling that are more of a workout than any sparring I've done. So if there is something that you don't like about the school, it might not be the Tracy system at fault, but the preference of the instructor.


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## rmcrobertson (Aug 25, 2003)

Well...here's what occurs to me.

1) Being afraid of training, and being on the mat, is not only normal but healthy.

2) As a beginner, you don't know doodley about how you should train, or what you're going to learn. Most--not all, but nearly all--of the stuff you think you do know comes from your brain lying to you so you don't have to really learn.

3) All beginners are in the bind of having to place their trust in people who they have no way of knowing if they should trust.

4) If you're reasonably comfortable with where you're starting to take classes, and if the head of the school seems OK, none of the other stuff matters. In particular, who cares if you spar at first? What's that got to do with anything important?

5) People quit for a lot of reasons. One of the sneakiest is to pin everything on the supposed deficiencies of the school.

6) This "informed consumer," crap, with which so many of us justify arrogance, should be soft-pedaled in a martial arts studio.


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## Kenpo Yahoo (Aug 25, 2003)

> 6) This "informed consumer," crap, with which so many of us justify arrogance, should be soft-pedaled in a martial arts studio.



To a degree I believe you are correct, but there are instances of people being burned by jackasses who don't care about the students.  I know of a guy in Texas who has had something like 28 blackbelts leave his school over the last 10 years.  This in itself wouldn't be a big deal but he's only had 30.  This means that 93% of his blackbelts left him.  Now there is a certain degree of natural attrition but of the 28 over half are still in kenpo with their parent organization (i.e. left the school but stayed in the association) this doesn't even include the colored belts that left the school but stayed with the assoc.  So it is not that they quite doing kenpo or didn't think they had anything else to learn, rather they felt they weren't getting what they needed from their instructor or they felt taken advantage of.   

My advice is to give it a shot but take a look at what the blackbelts and higher ranking colored belts are doing (if there aren't any at the school and it's been around for more than 8 years I would be suspicious).  If you aren't impressed or don't like what you see then find something else that you feel more comfortable in.  Also keep in mind that all schools are not the same despite similiar affiliation, a different Tracy school may be what you are looking for.  

Good Luck


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## RCastillo (Aug 25, 2003)

All of the responses here are good. If there is something you specifically want more of, just ask. They'll accomodate you.:asian:


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## Zeke01 (Aug 25, 2003)

Thanks for all the comments.  I guess I am just a lil concerned and scared of what to expect as a beginner Tracy Kenpoist.  Again, I appreciate your comments am glad to have found such a great Martial Arts board.


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## Goldendragon7 (Aug 27, 2003)

be VERY afraid.......


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## RCastillo (Aug 27, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Goldendragon7 _
> *be VERY afraid.......
> 
> *



Of Scorpions!


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## Sigung86 (Aug 27, 2003)

Perhpas he just had a large helping of beans?


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## Goldendragon7 (Aug 27, 2003)

> _Originally posted by RCastillo _
> *Of Scorpions! *



By the name of Castillo!


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## jfarnsworth (Aug 27, 2003)

> _Originally posted by RCastillo _
> *All of the responses here are good. If there is something you specifically want more of, just ask. They'll accomodate you.:asian: *



I've been asking for a spear set for a few weeks now. Where is the accomodation?:rofl:


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## molson (Aug 27, 2003)

Skylight and floor sweep can be good spear sets.  8 point spear is another excellent one.  I think I have some of them in written form.


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## jfarnsworth (Aug 27, 2003)

> _Originally posted by molson _
> *Skylight and floor sweep can be good spear sets.  8 point spear is another excellent one.  I think I have some of them in written form. *



Cool. If you are willing to share 1 send me a P.M. as I would like to take a look see at it.:asian:


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## RCastillo (Aug 27, 2003)

> _Originally posted by jfarnsworth _
> *Cool. If you are willing to share 1 send me a P.M. as I would like to take a look see at it.:asian: *



Oh, my mistake. I have them committed to memory, not writtten down!


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## jfarnsworth (Aug 27, 2003)

> _Originally posted by RCastillo _
> *Oh, my mistake. I have them committed to memory *



Excellent! :asian: . And I also have 3 instant messengers, netmeeting, a web cam, a headset, and a mic.



> not writtten down!



I only wanted to take a look at one.


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## Goldendragon7 (Aug 28, 2003)

> _Originally posted by jfarnsworth _*
> Excellent! :asian: . And I also have 3 instant messengers, netmeeting, a web cam, a headset, and a mic.
> *



It dosen't appear he knows how to use any of them!


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## jfarnsworth (Aug 29, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Goldendragon7 _
> *It dosen't appear he knows how to use any of them! *



Or his telephone for that matter. Everytime I have tried to call he is never home.:idunno:


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## clapping_tiger (Aug 31, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Zeke01 _
> *I heard that they don't spar because of the "vital" blows.   *



First off, Welcome!!

I do not know anything about Tracey Kenpo, but I just wanted to say that I would ask about this. you say that you heard they don't spar, but I would get the facts from the source. Ask the instructor/owner. There are a lot of people out there teaching Kenpo or variants of it and feed people a lot of crap. Perhaps this is a misunderstanding in what you were told, but it is worth checking into. Here is a short story about my first introduction into Kenpo about 10 years ago.


We had a school in town here with a big sign on the front KENPO. All of my friends joined and eventually I joined. I have heard about Kenpo and I thought it was the art for me. When I joined I was told all about the head instructor and how he was a member of the IKKA and he trained with Ed Parker and was a 6th degree black belt and world champion and all that jazz. I thought I was learning Kenpo. But all the Head Instructor did was use us to build his ego and beat on us. I left after only 2 weeks. I thought Kenpo sucks and it was not for me. Now about 10 years later after being re-introduced to the art I have learned that that instructor never know anything about Kenpo and taught  Japanese Karate (The name of the style I don't Know). He never trained with Ed Parker and the whole thing was a scam. I am very thankful that I met my instructor and re-introduced me the the art because it was for me. And it makes me angry that that fraud stole 10 years away from me and kept me from studying the art I have grown to love.


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## Jayson (Sep 4, 2003)

Well, there's been some time since you posted; I'm curious if you've had any private lessons yet? Any closer to a decision whether it's right for you or not? Did you find out if they spar?

I've been going to a Tracy's school in St. Louis, MO for two and a half years, and I've been pretty happy. My son, now eight, has been training with me that whole time. It's slowed my progress a bit, but I've gotten more out of the basics because of it. 

Group classes are never really the forum for learning new moves; you probably should have gone to privates first. It's also in those private lessons where you can ask your instructor to work you harder, rather than with a less experienced, less controlled student. 

When I first started, there wasn't really any sparring going on, which I think was merely because of lack of interest, but I can't say for sure. My instructor got a sparring class going, and I went to that. I was a bit disappointed at the "point-style" fighting, since it was more like tag than what I'd expected. The concern, I think, was our inexperience and lack of control (mixed with the desire to keep their insurance!). I made it known to other students I wanted them to hit me, that I was there to improve specific skills I could use in my fighting, and I wasn't interested in sport. I found one other student who was interested in the same thing I was; the rest were either too new or too scared about getting hit to enjoy it. So during sparring, I'd practice speed, control and accuracy, and afterwards, this guy and I would stick around and beat on each other, grinnin' the whole time.

Our instructor noticed how we were training together, and how, despite our vigorous poundings, neither of us lost control, and he started letting us work that in to the regular sparring class. Our instructor took the opportunity to work-in techniques and combos that he wouldn't have in a tournament-focused class, which made sparring more enjoyable for me, and worth something to the rest of the class too.

Point being, I guess, that if they're not doing it (sparring) now, doesn't mean you can't show them it's worth doing.


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## Sigung86 (Sep 4, 2003)

Great attitude and initiative Jayson.  Which Kenpo School do you attend?


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## Jayson (Sep 16, 2003)

I'm at Bill Boyd's school in Maryland Heights.

Before I accept your compliment, I have to admit that I've let things slide since then; a wave of newly enrolled kids came in, and the class started taking a turn towards tournament fighting. As the adult attendance started dropping off, there were less people for me to continue with; the focus was on making better sport fighters out of the kids, and I found other areas of my life nagging at me for more attention, coincidentally on sparring days....

Just occured to me, however, that there are a couple guys that I might convince to join me; we could start another round of adult sparring.

I think you just accidently resparked my purpose, Sigung86! Thank you!


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