# Black Belt thesis? Which dan grade?  How long is the thesis?



## Carol (Feb 6, 2012)

Hey all,

I'm currently proofreading a friend's black belt thesis and was curious how many folks write (or have their students write) a black belt thesis.

At which dan grade (or grades) do you require it?  About how long is the typical essay?  Just curious.

For anyone wondering, my friend is about to test for 3rd dan and has a thesis of about 150 pages.  Its been a good book to read


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## dancingalone (Feb 6, 2012)

My wife's aikido dojo requires essays for each of the first three dan ranks.  There is no formal length requirement.  I've read a few that are probably 10 pages typed maximum.

I think it's a practice better served for high dan, maybe 5th and above.  Maybe they will have something better to say than the ones I've read.  Um, peace, dudes.  :angel:


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## Haakon (Feb 6, 2012)

We have simple papers required at purple, brown and 1st dan but nothing like a thesis. Ours cover topics like 'how has martial arts impacted your life' and 'what does black belt mean to you'. Many people, especially the younger ones, don't even get to 1 page with these.

What is the topic if your friends thesis that is 150 pages long?


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## Carol (Feb 6, 2012)

He's did an in-depth study of a particular form.  This fellow loves to write, he has written and self-published several books.

Longer doesn't mean better, to be sure, I was just curious about whether there was a norm or a typical for this sort of thing


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## chinto (Feb 7, 2012)

in both styles of Karate I train in, shodan  and or shodan ho, require a thesis. minimum of 1,000 words.  but they seem to normally run some where closer to 1,200 to 1,500 worlds or longer.   anything pertaining to Karate.   it can me Legal, Technical,philosophical, or what have you.  It must be clean and well written.


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## SahBumNimRush (Feb 7, 2012)

We require a thesis at every dan grade.  From 1st gup to 1st dan the length is about 3 pages typed.  General rule is add a couple of pages for each dan rank, give or take.  For my 5th dan test, I wrote a 260 page thesis, but this is not the norm.  I was away attending professional school for 4 years, and I was unable to contribute daily to my Dojang and association.  This was my attempt to contribute in a manner that was supportive to my school and association.  

It covered many topics, from history, language, theory, philosophy, teaching, anatomy, physiology, cross training (not in other martial arts, but from a fitness perspective), and acupuncture/vital points.  

IMO, the thesis deals with the aspects of Taekwondo outside of the physical skill.


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## clfsean (Feb 7, 2012)

Never have understood this, but to each his own.


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## shesulsa (Feb 7, 2012)

Beyond my own rank I don't know if there are other essays or theses required. I did have to submit a 25-page dissertation for my 1st dan, though.


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## MJS (Feb 7, 2012)

Carol said:


> Hey all,
> 
> I'm currently proofreading a friend's black belt thesis and was curious how many folks write (or have their students write) a black belt thesis.
> 
> ...



I had to do one for my 1st degree BB.  Nothing after that though. I forget how many pages it had to be.  Obviously it had to be somewhat lengthy.  Any topic I wanted as long as it was martial arts related.


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## Bill Mattocks (Feb 7, 2012)

We require a thesis before promotion to Shodan.  I don't have to worry about it for at least two more years!


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## Flying Crane (Feb 7, 2012)

In my first school we had a "thesis/paper/whatever" for shodan.  Honestly, I think the only reason we did it was because we had heard that the big schools out in California were doing it, that Ed Parker made it a requirement in his schools, or something (this was in the 1980s, I was a teenager living in Wisconsin).  I don't fully remember what I wrote about.  I was sixteen years old and definitely NOT an accomplished writer.  I wrote it and turned it in and we never discussed it, the topic never came up.  It ultimately had no effect on whether or not I received my rank.

I hope that paper never surfaces.  I hope it was quietly destroyed.  I would expect it would be pretty embarrassing to see what I had written back then.

Personally, I don't see much value in the practice.  Some people are good writers, others are not.  Some have something to say, most do not.  To make this a requirement just doesn't make a lot of sense to me.  I think some schools like to create an environment that they feel is "academic", and in most cases it just doesn't hold up.

Those who like to write and are skilled at it, and have something to say, can write the books and the magazine articles and the blogs.  They can have at it and maybe someday I'll even try my own hand at it.  But as a requirement for rank, I don't see value in it.


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## SahBumNimRush (Feb 7, 2012)

Flying Crane said:


> I was sixteen years old and definitely NOT an accomplished writer.  I wrote it and turned it in and we never discussed it, the topic never came up.  It ultimately had no effect on whether or not I received my rank.
> 
> 
> Personally, I don't see much value in the practice.  But as a requirement for rank, I don't see value in it.



If it is never brought up during the test, IMO it does have little value.  At our tests, after the physical test (once you are physically and mentally exhausted), you have to tell the panel of examiners, briefly, what you wrote in your thesis.  The examiners do their best to "misinterpret" what you say, so that you have to defend your stance/beliefs.  Basically give you a proverbial shovel to dig yourself a hole, and then see if you can climb back out of it.  It is, IMO, the most difficult portion of the test.  It tests you mentally, and shows how fully you understand the concepts/topics you chose to write about.  

I don't see this as academic, because you aren't graded on your writing ability.  You are graded on your understanding of what YOU chose as a topic.  Every examinee always walks away with understanding the art better than they did prior to the test on some level. A person with little to know grammar or composition skills that knows their material can excel against an examinee that is an accomplished writer who doesn't fully understand what they are writing about.

To put it another way:  If you took a semester of underwater basketweaving, I think you would be hard pressed to explain and defend it's core concepts at the finishline after completing a triatholon.  However, you should be able to explain and defend how to tie your shoe, since it's something that you have a lot of knowledge, practice and experience about.


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## puunui (Feb 7, 2012)

The Kukkiwon requires a ten page thesis for those who are recommended for promotion to 6th Dan or higher. At that level, it shouldn't be a problem to write out a ten page paper on a subject relating to the martial arts that you study.


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