# Dojos in south Denver?



## bearhawk811 (Oct 22, 2006)

Hi,  I am 38 years old and never done any type of martial arts.  I am in decent shape for my age though I do have plenty of the middle aged aches and pains.  I have always been curious about martial arts and have recently decided I would like to try it to help augment my current exercise program.  

  Ive spent quite a bit of time perusing this site and it seems most all agree the style chosen is less important than the instructor.  In fact another poster had a very similar background and goals as myself (*Apparently, the same question every newbie asks...*) .  Like this poster, after researching the various disciplines I thought Aikido might fit me however I was unable to find any near my home.  That said, I have only visited one dojo thus far. 

  I chose it merely because it was the closest to my house.  I had a couple of free one on one lessons and attended a few group classes.   The dojo has only been around for a year or two consequently I think I only saw one brown belt and most of the students were yellow or orange belts with a few blues and purples tossed in.  One night after I had a lesson 3 black belts had shown up to train at the dojo.  One with a number of red stripes on his belt seemed to be teaching the other two.  Anyway I was pretty impressed with that display and it made me think maybe this dojo was a decent school (United Studios of Self Defense).  

  Then while researching this dojo online I discovered this martial talk site which had an entire mostly negative thread regarding the school (http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24294).  I had to laugh because while I did think the price of this place was expensive generally I was getting good vibes from the sensei and other students.   One thing was that I did not feel particularly worked after any of the classes so I was thinking Id prefer a little bit more of an intense workout with the classes.  During the group classes the Sensei was not particularly strict and did allow plenty of levity.   I was thinking I would prefer this over a drill sergeant type atmosphere.  The only other thing that seemed like a negative was the junior instructor that was teaching me in my private lessons had only been doing it for a couple of years.  To be honest I do not know if this is necessarily a bad thing or not given I am starting from ground zero but it does seem like experience is always a benefit.  There are a number of other such store front operations in my area which I plan on visiting. However, I was wondering if anyone had any south Denver specific dojos/instructors they might recommend.  

  Thank you in advance for your consideration.


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## Kacey (Oct 22, 2006)

For Aikido, there's not much I can recommend; I do TKD, and in south Denver, which is what drew my attention to your post.

As far as USSD, they're better than Stephen Oliver's - and I say that having _met_ Stephen Oliver, when he tried to hire me at a teachers' job fair - that is, he was hiring teachers because they knew how to teach, and was going to rush them to a high enough rank to be instructors, in about 3 months.  I don't know much about USSD - but like any chain, there are good classes and bad classes and so-so classes; different franchise owners are possessed of different levels of skill and experience, and also different levels of integrity when it comes to teacher their own style.  I do think you should visit multiple classes before choosing one to join.  There are, as it sounds like you've already noticed, multiple previous threads about choosing a style and a school.  No matter what other people say, the school has to be a fit for you personally, but there does come a point where you have to pay attention to others' experiences.  The fact that they let you come in and watch before you signed up is a good thing.  The one thing to remember about storefronts is that they are (generally) for profit - so their goal is to sign you up so they can make the rent.  But some are better than others.  Where is this one, exactly?

You are welcome to drop by my dojang if you like - it's at Schlessman YMCA, at Colorado and Yale, and class meets on Mondays and Thursdays, from 6:00 to 7:30 pm.  My class is also pretty small - like anything else, especially in a non-profit, we don't advertise, and the numbers rise and fall - but we have a lot of fun and I hold to a pretty decent standard, I think.

Good luck to you, wherever you end up!


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## still learning (Oct 23, 2006)

Hello, Just my thoughts on this.....Try JUDO...it is more than you think!   or look for any Kempo/Kenpo schools...you will love the things they do in training. .......

Always trust your intincts on the school you choose...go with the gut feelings.  Most martial art school is a business first, there goals is to teach you there art.

Getting the right Sensi is most important (personal and humble)....and knowledable..........Aloha


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## Journeyman (Oct 23, 2006)

Considering that the headquarters of Enshin Karate is in Denver, I'd say it'd be worth a visit to check them out even if you ultimately decide it's not for you.  The Honbu(headquarters) is on Colfax a bit east of Colorado Blvd.  Small, nondescript building that's not the first thing that comes to mind when you think of 'world headquarters.'  Joko Ninomiya, founder of the style,  is the main man there though.  http://honbu.enshin.com/  There's another Enshin dojo a bit southeast of there at around Evans and Monaco.  Appears to be run by a Sensei with pretty impressive credentials himself.  http://denver.enshin.com/


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## arnisador (Oct 23, 2006)

still learning said:


> Hello, Just my thoughts on this.....Try JUDO...it is more than you think!



Judo or any other kind of grappling will surely give you more of a workout! Don't just look in the Yellow Pages...these programs are often at YMCAs, community centers, and so on. Find a local martial arts supply store and see if they have an advertising board, or check a (weekly) community paper. You'll find options!

Enshin Karate--a form of Ashihara, I believe--should also be a good workout.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Oct 23, 2006)

If you are interested in Silat/Kuntao and the Filipino arts you could check out Bob Orlando's school : http://www.orlandokuntao.com/

or Stuart Lauper : http://www.pmadenver.com/#

William De Thuoars : http://www.willemdethouars.com/

Denver is an area loaded with lots of Martial Arts Training Halls.
Good luck in your search.


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## DojoRat (Oct 23, 2006)

Hi Bearhawk,

I'm the owner and chief instructor of the United Studios of Self Defense location in Livermore, which is in Northern California, so I can offer you a bit of insight into what USSD is all about.

As far as researching the stuff you read here on the net, take it with a grain of salt.  Keep in mind that 90% of the people who are ripping USSD up one side and down the other are either a) direct competitors of USSD, and/or b) people have failed to open a school with USSD.  Regardless, almost all of them have an axe to grind.  Like most things in life, some of what they say has a grain of truth to it, but generally things are overexagerated, and maybe half truths, or lie by omission type of things.

Some of our schools in the Colorado area are still fairly new, which explains why you would see more lower level ranks.  The one or two high ones are probably transfers from California or other more established areas.

As far as learning from a newer instructor, if you feel comfortable with that newer instructor, and you feel that you are learning at the proper speed and whatnot, there's nothing wrong with that.  However, if you want to learn from the chief instructor, tell him/her that, and I doubt that there will be a problem.

Don't get me wrong, USSD has it's problems.  There are some instructors who are less than qualified, but even with them, they receive weekly training on how to get better.  The vast majority of them are very well qualified though.

Ask the instructor if the class which you thought would be more of a physical workout is a typical class.  I know sometimes when there are several first time students in class, I will pull back bit on the intensity level so I don't intimidate the person.  That may be what happened here.  On the other hand, it may simply be that instructor's style, which may not mesh well with your style, in which case, you may be better suited somewhere else.

There's nothing wrong with looking around, but think about it this way too...  USSD has been around almost 40 years, has almost 200 schools nationwide, and is by far the largest and most powerful martial arts organization in the country.  We didn't get that way by being stupid, and by not having quality instruction at the vast majority of our schools...

OK, rip away people...


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## bluemtn (Oct 23, 2006)

Honestly and in my opinion, bearhawk, go and check the schools out for yourself rather than taking others advice before you see it for yourself.  Go and see what is available, ask us or look on these links (or both):        http://martialtalk.com/library/rma_newbie-guide.txt
http://money.cnn.com/2001/10/17/saving/q_karate/

These should help you know what you might want in a martial art.  Also ask yourself what you want out of your training, and if that school will provide your wants and needs.


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## bearhawk811 (Oct 24, 2006)

Thanks all for the replies.  That is some good information and I am glad to hear it sounds like I have a lot of options in the Denver area.  Now I just have to go out and do the research.  Peace.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Oct 24, 2006)

Good luck and I hope you find what you are looking for!


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## xjrrrdx (Oct 24, 2006)

Also someone mentioned the Enshin Karate, in the same building they have BJJ and Muay Thai of Colorado (where I go).


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## shaolin ninja 4 (Nov 6, 2006)

DojoRat said:


> Hi Bearhawk,
> 
> I'm the owner and chief instructor of the United Studios of Self Defense location in Livermore, which is in Northern California, so I can offer you a bit of insight into what USSD is all about.
> 
> ...



I used to run a school for ussd pal and the things people are saying about ussd are TRUE !!!!

How can anyone afford a school with ussd????

It cost like $150,000 !!!!!   And you get allmost mothing of the profits!
Anyone could open one for $15,000. So why such a high fee? 


You guys haven't been arround 40 years !!! Grand Master Fred Villari has.

Your guy Charles mattera (head of ussd) broke off from Villari and stole a bunch of his schools. 

And why should anyone pay a very inexperienced black or brown belt $190 a month for lessions?

And no they were not partners.


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## shaolin ninja 4 (Nov 17, 2006)

DojoRat said:


> Hi Bearhawk,
> 
> I'm the owner and chief instructor of the United Studios of Self Defense location in Livermore, which is in Northern California, so I can offer you a bit of insight into what USSD is all about.
> 
> ...


 
You guys are not the largest and most powerful or you would have more than five 5th degrees.
You guys have not been around 40 years Fred Villaris has.


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## 14 Kempo (Nov 18, 2006)

shaolin ninja 4 said:


> You guys are not the largest and most powerful or you would have more than five 5th degrees.
> You guys have not been around 40 years Fred Villaris has.


I agree ... I am a former student of FV and currently with USSD. I was with FV from 1985-1992, during the split. The current USSD was established in 1988, that would make it 18 years old. Some may get confused by the name, FV used the USSD name when he first established his system, eventually renaming to Fred Villari's. I'll leave it at that.


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## Gufbal1982 (Dec 7, 2006)

14 Kempo said:


> I agree ... I am a former student of FV and currently with USSD. I was with FV from 1985-1992, during the split. The current USSD was established in 1988, that would make it 18 years old. Some may get confused by the name, FV used the USSD name when he first established his system, eventually renaming to Fred Villari's. I'll leave it at that.


 
Yup.  They were originally Fred Villari's United Studios of Self Defense, then became Fred Villari's Studios, then to Villari's Self Defense Centers and now the new ones are Villari's Martial Arts Centers.



shaolin ninja 4 said:


> You guys are not the largest and most powerful or you would have more than five 5th degrees.
> You guys have not been around 40 years Fred Villaris has.


 
Sooo many 5th degrees and up with Fred Villari's.  It's crazy man, just crazy


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