# Woman Stabbed With Pen



## MJS (Apr 20, 2011)

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42680831/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/

While this is a horrible thing, my question is....why did she try to stop him? A guy is trying to light a cig. There is no smoking on the train.  So instead of either ignoring the guy or notifying someone, she decides to play subway police and deal with it herself.


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## Bruno@MT (Apr 21, 2011)

MJS said:


> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42680831/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/
> 
> While this is a horrible thing, my question is....why did she try to stop him? A guy is trying to light a cig. There is no smoking on the train.  So instead of either ignoring the guy or notifying someone, she decides to play subway police and deal with it herself.



Yep. Or at most politely ask him if he could put it out or smoke somewhere else.
And angry confrontation and yelling is rarely a good idea, no matter how much you are in the right. Especially over something as trivial as a cigarette.


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## Cryozombie (Apr 21, 2011)

I'm confused about the charge of Criminal Possession of a weapon.  Was carrying the pen considered a weapon because it was used as such?


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## CoryKS (Apr 21, 2011)

Cryozombie said:


> I'm confused about the charge of Criminal Possession of a weapon. Was carrying the pen considered a weapon because it was used as such?


 
Well, it _is_ mightier than a sword.


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## Xue Sheng (Apr 21, 2011)

Cryozombie said:


> I'm confused about the charge of Criminal Possession of a weapon. Was carrying the pen considered a weapon because it was used as such?


 
It has been a while since I had to deal with NYS Law and NYC can be very different but as far as I remember in NYS they cannot get him on a weapons charge because it is a Pen which is not a weapon. However they can get him on something like Dangerous instrument or implement or something like that based on the way the pen was used. However, like I said, NYC could be different from NYS as far as a weapons charge goes and it is entirely possible that NYS has changed the law since I had to deal with such things.


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## Xue Sheng (Apr 21, 2011)

CoryKS said:


> Well, it _is_ mightier than a sword.


 

DAMN!!!! You beat me to it :disgust: :uhyeah:

That was the very first thing I thought of when I saw the title


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## shesulsa (Apr 21, 2011)

I don't know about NY state law, but some states have laws for assault with an object not intended to be a weapon. :idunno:

In any case ... it's likely to be a new worry for the TSA (who carries pens and such).  

Before you know it, we'll have to fly nekked.

:barf:


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## Touch Of Death (Apr 21, 2011)

Cryozombie said:


> I'm confused about the charge of Criminal Possession of a weapon.  Was carrying the pen considered a weapon because it was used as such?


I am a lot confused. A pen is a criminal possession?
Sean


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## Touch Of Death (Apr 21, 2011)

Let this be a lesson to you all. The homeless are not harmless people you can order around. Some of them will stab you in the face with a pen.:mst:
Sean


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## Bruno@MT (Apr 22, 2011)

Cryozombie said:


> I'm confused about the charge of Criminal Possession of a weapon.  Was carrying the pen considered a weapon because it was used as such?



I am unclear on US law (obviously) but in Belgium, the act of using it as a weapon can turn any object into an illegal weapon. A kitchen knife used for cooking is not a weapon. A kitchen knife carried concealed into a football stadium can be classified as an (illegal) weapon. A lot depends in intent, and judgment of the officer(s) involved.

I have 2 pocket knives. A spyderco delica and a swiss army knife (multitool) which is used as a keychain for the keys of the server / comms racks. I often carry both. Both are locking blades of identical length. But the swiss knife would not get a second glance from an officer in most settings (it is a known and often encountered item) whereas my spyderco would raise serious questions and potentially get me fined or arrested if I'd take it where police have a reason to suspect wrong intent. The only reason is that the spyderco 'looks' dangerous.

I'd love to carry a spyderco civilian, but the simple fact of carrying it would land me in heaps of trouble unless I could reasonably claim I have a legit, 'non-weapon-use' reason for carrying it. Belgian law does not put restrictions on bladed weapons (other than a couple of specific items) but intent to use as a weapon is not allowed. The reason for this is that there are plenty of scenarios where something is not meant to be a weapon, yet the same item in another setting is.

This means that a general purpose knife is generally allowed unless there is reason to suspect violent intent. A knife intended to be a weapon otoh has intent tacked on by default unless there is a reason to assume otherwise.


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## MJS (Apr 22, 2011)

Bruno@MT said:


> Yep. Or at most politely ask him if he could put it out or smoke somewhere else.
> And angry confrontation and yelling is rarely a good idea, no matter how much you are in the right. Especially over something as trivial as a cigarette.


 
True.  The article says that she told him to stop and started yelling when he began waving the lighter in front of her face.  Something tells me that no matter how nice she was in her attempt to get him to not smoke, he was going to disregard her, probably pepper her with a few obsenities, and light up anyways.


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## MJS (Apr 22, 2011)

Bruno@MT said:


> I am unclear on US law (obviously) but in Belgium, the act of using it as a weapon can turn any object into an illegal weapon. A kitchen knife used for cooking is not a weapon. A kitchen knife carried concealed into a football stadium can be classified as an (illegal) weapon. A lot depends in intent, and judgment of the officer(s) involved.
> 
> I have 2 pocket knives. A spyderco delica and a swiss army knife (multitool) which is used as a keychain for the keys of the server / comms racks. I often carry both. Both are locking blades of identical length. But the swiss knife would not get a second glance from an officer in most settings (it is a known and often encountered item) whereas my spyderco would raise serious questions and potentially get me fined or arrested if I'd take it where police have a reason to suspect wrong intent. The only reason is that the spyderco 'looks' dangerous.
> 
> ...


 
Isnt the law an interesting thing. LOL.  Its amazing how a simple, everyday thing, ie: a pen, a cane, or a set of keys, things that're perfectly legal to carry anywhere, under normal circumstances, would not get a second glance, yet suddenly turn into illegal weapons.  Someone tries to mug an old man, he whacks the guy with his cane, and now he can potentially go up the river for using it to defend himself.


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## MA-Caver (Apr 22, 2011)

I can understand the woman's desire to get the guy to stop lighting up because some folks are highly allergic to smoke and smoke odor (on clothes, etc). Being confrontational isn't going to be the best way to do it, (remember the lady who griped about the girl eating on the subway?). 
Usually there's an security or police on board the trains, if not in the immediate car then at least a car or two away. Was the lady that naive to think that nobody else would've complained about it and notified the nearest officer as soon as maybe the car got to the next station. 
No, it seems to be a situation of "if you want something done... do it yourself!".

Look what it got her.


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