# FBI raids Dallas data centre, seizes all servers



## Andrew Green (Apr 3, 2009)

> In the online letter Simpson said, "Neither I, nor Core IP are involved in any illegal activities of any kind. The only data that I have received thus far is that the FBI is investigating a company that has purchased services from Core IP in the past."
> 
> Simpson claims nearly 50 businesses are without access to their email and data. Some of those clients provide internet services to car dealers and other companies.
> 
> According to Simpson, some residents' access to 911 is also being affected because some of Core IPs primary customers include telephone companies.



http://cbs11tv.com/local/Core.IP.Networks.2.974706.html


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## Carol (Apr 3, 2009)

> Simpson closed his online letter with the statement, "If you run a datacenter, please be aware that in our great country, the FBI can come into your place of business at any time and take whatever they want, with no reason."



Um...no.


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## CuongNhuka (Apr 3, 2009)

Carol Kaur said:


> Um...no.


 
Yah thats my thought also.


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## tellner (Apr 3, 2009)

Carol Kaur said:


> Um...no.



Didn't used to be. But now they can. The last thirty years have gotten rid of the Fourth, Fifth, Sixth, Eighth, Ninth and Tenth, huge chunks of the the First and Second with an option on the Thirteenth. 

All they have to say is "Terrorism" or "Media Piracy" and they can do whatever they want or in this case what the MPAA wants.


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## Andrew Green (Apr 3, 2009)

tellner said:


> Didn't used to be. But now they can. The last thirty years have gotten rid of the Fourth, Fifth, Sixth, Eighth, Ninth and Tenth, huge chunks of the the First and Second with an option on the Thirteenth.
> 
> All they have to say is "Terrorism" or "Media Piracy" and they can do whatever they want or in this case what the MPAA wants.




The theory right now from Internet speculators that have no evidence is that the Wolverine leak might have something to do with this.

If true, that is quite scary.  That one business (MPAA) can get the FBI to shut down operations at a data centre including seizing all servers from all businesses hosted in that data centre over copyright, and what would seem like a internal leak.


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## Carol (Apr 3, 2009)

Personally I'm withholding judgment until the warrant is unsealed.

IMO...also revealing will be _when _the warrant is unsealed, if its done on a Sunday (when many Americans are less connected with the news) or if its done on a Monday or Tuesday (when Americans are much more connected with the news).


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## Bob Hubbard (Apr 3, 2009)

The FBI is now the enforcement arm of the MPAA and RIAA, the later who now controls the US Justice Department.

So, expect more data center raids.

This btw, isn't the first time they've raided a data center and walked out with the servers.


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## Bill Mattocks (Apr 3, 2009)

Andrew Green said:


> The theory right now from Internet speculators that have no evidence is that the Wolverine leak might have something to do with this.
> 
> If true, that is quite scary.  That one business (MPAA) can get the FBI to shut down operations at a data centre including seizing all servers from all businesses hosted in that data centre over copyright, and what would seem like a internal leak.



Not that unusual, or even new.  You just have to be old enough.

In 1972, Ramparts Magazine published the schematics to make a 'blue box' which would enable people to cheat the phone company out of long-distance service.  The phone company persuaded the FBI to raid Ramparts and they got an injunction which had FBI agents all over the country visiting every news stand they could find and seizing every issue of Ramparts off the stands.  Ramparts was eventually cleared of having committed any crime - not that it mattered, they were bankrupt.


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## Bob Hubbard (Apr 3, 2009)

The FBI also raided Steve Jackson Games, seized (and destroyed) much of their gear, over the GURPS game system.  Seems the FBI thought it was a hacker training system.

:/


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## Cryozombie (Apr 3, 2009)

Bob Hubbard said:


> The FBI also raided Steve Jackson Games, seized (and destroyed) much of their gear, over the GURPS game system.  Seems the FBI thought it was a hacker training system.
> 
> :/



Correct me if I am wrong but that was over their Hacker game, not Gurps, wasn't it?


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## Carol (Apr 3, 2009)

Bob Hubbard said:


> The FBI also raided Steve Jackson Games, seized (and destroyed) much of their gear, over the GURPS game system.  Seems the FBI thought it was a hacker training system.
> 
> :/



Well, it wasn't the FBI.   And they got their gear back.  But I know what you mean.  :lol:


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## Bob Hubbard (Apr 3, 2009)

My bad.
It was the US Secret Service,and involved "GURPS Cyberpunk".



> On March 12, 1993, a federal judge in Austin, Texas decided
> that the US Secret Service broke the law when it searched Steve
> Jackson Games Inc., and seized its bulletin board system and other
> computer equipment.  The decision in this case has been long-
> ...





> The facts.  By now, most people interested in the case are
> familiar with the basic facts:  On March 1, 1990, the Secret
> Service, in an early-morning raid, searched the offices of Steve
> Jackson Games.  The agents kept the employees out of the offices
> ...



Of interest:


> Amazing as it may sound, you cannot sue the United States (or
> any federal agency) for money damages for violating your
> constitutional rights.  You can sue individual federal agents,
> though.  If you do, you have to get past a defense called
> ...



Lots more here:
http://www.sjgames.com/SS/pdk-article.html


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## Bob Hubbard (Apr 3, 2009)

*Police seize Indymedia server (again) &#8226; The Register*

www.theregister.co.uk/2009/01/23/indymedia_manchester_raid/




*US court allows work PC to be seized without warrant*
*Declan McCullagh* 
CNET News.com                
 Published: 06 Jan 2005 15:25 GMT
*US police do not need a search warrant to examine an employee's computer for incriminating files, a Washington state appeals court has ruled.



More on the OP
* * 			FBI Seizes All Servers In Dallas Data Center 			 		*



*Posted by 	 	Soulskill  	on Friday April 03, @07:58PM*
*from the surgical-precision dept.* 
 
  
1sockchuck writes _"FBI agents have raided a Dallas data center, seizing servers at a company called Core IP Networks. The company's CEO has posted a message saying the FBI confiscated all its customer servers, including gear belonging to companies that are almost certainly not under suspicion. The FBI isn't saying what it's after, but there are reports that it's related to video piracy, sparking unconfirmed speculation that the probe is tied to the leaking of Wolverine."_ 



 

Firehose:FBI Seizes All Servers in Dallas Data Center


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## Cryozombie (Apr 4, 2009)

ASSUMING this is over the Wolverine leak,

Is this the FBI's function?  Strongarm investigations of copywrite infringment for private companies?


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## elder999 (Apr 4, 2009)

Cryozombie said:


> ASSUMING this is over the Wolverine leak,
> 
> Is this the FBI's function? Strongarm investigations of copywrite infringment for private companies?


 

Well, yeah-it'd be copyright infringement on the scale of "grand larceny": who knows what that movie's opening weekend will net? And the internet _does_ cross interstate lines-at least, I'll bet they had violators in multiple locations. So, assuming that's what it's about, yes, it's the FBI's function....


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## Andy Moynihan (Apr 4, 2009)

Assuming that's what it's about.


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## Bob Hubbard (Apr 4, 2009)

All the more reason to avoid internet downloads, and get your bootlegs legally.  You know, at sci fi con dealer rooms, flea markets and chinatowns.


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## Cryozombie (Apr 4, 2009)

elder999 said:


> who knows what that movie's opening weekend will net?


 
Well, thats a good point, who knows indeed.

For all we know the Downloads cost them NOTHING in revenue loss, or it costs them MILLIONS... you just cannot predict that without making up a number.

I liken it to Metallica.  Metallica has hordes of die-hard metal fans, then they cut their hair and went "Mainstream Alternative" and blamed internet downloads for millions in revenue loss, when the more likley reality was, what they made sucked, and their fans werent buying it as a result.  

So any claim its grand larceny across interstate lines, is speculation really... there is no evidence to suggest that is there?  

I dunno... I think its a fuzzy area.  But confiscating the E911 Servers helps stop the piracy how?


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## Cryozombie (Apr 4, 2009)

Bob Hubbard said:


> All the more reason to avoid internet downloads, and get your bootlegs legally. You know, at sci fi con dealer rooms, flea markets and chinatowns.


 
Or legally record them from On Demand Cable services, or other such services.


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## Carol (Apr 4, 2009)

Cryozombie said:


> So any claim its grand larceny across interstate lines, is speculation really... there is no evidence to suggest that is there?



To claim its about pirating the Wolverine movie is speculation.  There hasn't been any evidence to suggest that either, and there won't be until the warrant is unsealed...



> But confiscating the E911 Servers helps stop the piracy how?



E-911 servers are big databases of names, addresses, and phone numbers.


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## tellner (Apr 4, 2009)

Carol Kaur said:


> Personally I'm withholding judgment until the warrant is unsealed.
> 
> IMO...also revealing will be _when _the warrant is unsealed, if its done on a Sunday (when many Americans are less connected with the news) or if its done on a Monday or Tuesday (when Americans are much more connected with the news).



Who says it will be unsealed? Thanks to the steady erosion of the last couple decades we have secret courts, secret laws, secret indictments and secret evidence.


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## Carol (Apr 4, 2009)

tellner said:


> Who says it will be unsealed? Thanks to the steady erosion of the last couple decades we have secret courts, secret laws, secret indictments and secret evidence.



Dallas Morning News, 2-APR-09 "Once the warrant is unsealed in the next day or two, we'll know more about what sort of criminal case this is."


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## Andrew Green (Apr 4, 2009)

Cryozombie said:


> Well, thats a good point, who knows indeed.
> 
> For all we know the Downloads cost them NOTHING in revenue loss, or it costs them MILLIONS... you just cannot predict that without making up a number.



Depends on situation, in some cases piracy might even increase sales.  I suspect quite a few people have discovered new music through piracy and gone on to buy albums and attend live shows.  But that's not going to help the big bands as much.



> I dunno... I think its a fuzzy area.  But confiscating the E911 Servers helps stop the piracy how?



Now the news is that it has something to do with fraud, someone ripping off AT&T or some other carrier for a good chunk.  Still one business forcing the shut down of many smaller ones that are completely innocent in the situation though.


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## Shicomm (Apr 6, 2009)

Havenco has stopped the hosting off Sealand... hosting in Sweden is a bit stupid atm as well...  
The piratebay has gone to Egypt... maybe that's a good place to go...


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## Carol (Apr 6, 2009)

Now that the warrant has been unsealed...



> Documents say AT&T and Verizon told investigators they believe they were being defrauded out of $6 million in a three to four month period by a group of investors working together, including Faulkner, Simpson, and three others.



No charges filed yet.

Personally I do feel very bad for the businesses affected by this.  This is, however, a risk of depending on a colo for data services.  Shared facilities, shared servers, shared bandwith, means a lower price for data services at a higher risk to the actual data.  

The (old-school) telephone network is circuit-switched.  To get a phone call from point a to point b means going across a hard-wired series of circuits, all precisely documented and all built to capacity.   Tracing a phone call is very, very easy (from an engineering perspective).  This permits CALEA regulations to be extremely precise - a LE agency must specify what part of a phone call (signaling, etc) they want to intercept when petitioning a judge for a warrant. 

The internet is packet-switched.  Getting data from point a to point b doesn't require the same precise hard wiring.  It is a lot more flexible.  Because of this, it is usually much cheaper to move a payload across the internet than across the phone network.  The drawback is that data transactions are not as clear-cut and easy to trace as phone calls.  This also means that CALEA legislation is not as precise.


http://cbs11tv.com/technology/Core.IP.Networks.2.975776.html


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## CuongNhuka (Apr 6, 2009)

See, that makes sense. It may be an unfounded acusation by the phone companies to get out of paying there bills. Who knows, all will soon find out.


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## Carol (Apr 6, 2009)

CuongNhuka said:


> See, that makes sense. It may be an unfounded acusation by the phone companies to get out of paying there bills. Who knows, all will soon find out.



Unfounded accusations, even from big companies such as those two, are generally not enough to get the FBI involved, let alone getting them involved enough to where they have probable cause to petition for (and be awarded) two search warrants.  This was the second time within a month that building had been raided.

In the 1970s, hackers found a way to hack the phone system with certain tones.  This cannot be done these days, because there is a parallel data network that runs alongside the phone network that carries billing information was well as data that makes modern telephone features possible.  (call waiting, caller ID, E-911, etc).  This data network CAN be altered fraudulently...providing there are a few hundred thousand dollars of switching, signaling, and telco facilities available to the wanna-be defrauder, and the defrauder has knowledge of protocols that aren't taught in computer science courses.

My prediction...I think the data patterns have given the FBI has overwhelming evidence that the fraud is coming from that building, and they likely have overwhelming evidence that the fraud is coming from facilities associated with those two companies.   

More difficult, is isolating (and proving) who committed the fraud.


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## CuongNhuka (Apr 7, 2009)

That was actually me making fun of the people who are paranoid about the government doing whatever it wants, how the FBI runs around with no ovesight like a bunch of cowboys from the days gone by, and that a few companys are so big they control the government and use it to cheat the system. I should have mentioned that.


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## crushing (Apr 8, 2009)

This report includes a link to the unsealed FBI Affidavit:

http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/Dallas-FBI-Raid-About-VoIP-Scam-Not-Wolverine-101764


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## Rich Parsons (Apr 8, 2009)

crushing said:


> This report includes a link to the unsealed FBI Affidavit:
> 
> http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/Dallas-FBI-Raid-About-VoIP-Scam-Not-Wolverine-101764




Scamming and stealing and defrauding Verizon and AT&T of minutes and usage for Voice over IP. I can see this happening.


As to the Wolverine leak (* I did not know there was one. I guess I am out of the loop *), I am confused by this. A watched a History of TLC show a few years ago that had a secret service investigation into DVD frauds. This included an interview with a Sony executive that was surprised when a SS agent showed up with a copy of his latest planned released with all the security on it including halograms and other methods. He (SS) got it in China off of a Bus driver that was showing it so the people riding the bus. 

I guess in China they do not respect Intellectual Rights, so they run one shift for the company and another shift for themselves.  

I know guys I know who have gone to China have commented that it is easy to find DVD's of movies that have not been released in the theaters here in the states yet.


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## Andrew Green (Apr 8, 2009)

Rich Parsons said:


> I guess in China they do not respect Intellectual Rights,



I think that is pretty common, to have less respect for other countries copyright then your own.

I suspect that most people would see copying foreign films (that where in another language, or even sub-titled) as less of a infringement then copying the latest hollywood blockbuster.

There is also less motivation to deal with it.  They would be spending Chinese money to protect the interests of American businesses, with no real benefit to the Chinese.  It's just a cost to them, the people have to then pay more for the movies, and pay more indirectly for the enforcement.  The only beneficiaries are over seas, and have a habit of saying nasty things about their country anyways.


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## Rich Parsons (Apr 8, 2009)

Andrew Green said:


> I think that is pretty common, to have less respect for other countries copyright then your own.
> 
> I suspect that most people would see copying foreign films (that where in another language, or even sub-titled) as less of a infringement then copying the latest hollywood blockbuster.
> 
> There is also less motivation to deal with it.  They would be spending Chinese money to protect the interests of American businesses, with no real benefit to the Chinese.  It's just a cost to them, the people have to then pay more for the movies, and pay more indirectly for the enforcement.  The only beneficiaries are over seas, and have a habit of saying nasty things about their country anyways.



Andrew,

I agree about culture and feelings about rights, but just a point. I was talking about the latest Hollywood Blockbuster. Go over to China before it is released here by 6 months, and take a bus ride and watch the movie. By three or four copies of it with all the same as here security for about $10 or less.


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