# ok, Rousey is the real deal, clearly



## Twin Fist

damn. that arm was WRECKED. Tate should have tapped, her pride might just have cost her the rest of her career. Ref should have stopped it WAY earlier


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## Hollywood1340

So a Bronze medal in the Olympics doesn't prove you're the real deal?


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## elder999

Not as bad as it looked-no fractures, maybe some ligament damage, possible elbow disclocation and what looked like possible rotator cuff to me......Tate's arm might recover pretty quickly, but-judging by her looks immediately afterward-it might take a while for her ego to do so.....:lol:

Oh, and yeah, Rowdy Rhonda's fo-real....ouch.....:lfao:


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## Steve

Not a fun injury, but as Elder said, it will be close to 100% in 3 or so months, provided she didn't break any bones.

Rousey is most definitely the real deal, but she's difficult to like.  Her arrogance is palpable.  

For what it's worth, that was an EXCELLENT fight and Tate took it to Rousey.  Tate needs to improve her jiu jitsu, but her wrestling and her striking gave Rousey some trouble and at one point Tate had her back.


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## elder999

Steve said:
			
		

> For what it's worth, that was an EXCELLENT fight and Tate took it to Rousey. Tate needs to improve her jiu jitsu, but her wrestling and her striking gave Rousey some trouble and at one point Tate had her back.



And Rousey needs to work on her striking. She's got a good frame for boxing, but really could have lost that fight standing up if Tait were just a scoche taller.....


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## Twin Fist

jui jitsu? apparently her JUDO is doing just fine for her......

she DOES need some work on her striking, but again, you cant argue with success.

never been to the 2nd round, submissions EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.

never argue with success.....


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## elder999

Twin Fist said:


> jui jitsu? apparently her JUDO is doing just fine for her......



Think he was talking about Tait needing to polish her jiu-jitsu......oh, and JUDO *is* _jujutsu_, if it's taught right.

Clearly, Ms. Rousey was taught right....:lol:


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## Buka

I know it's too early to say, but I think Rousey might be the best woman fighter I've seen in any sport, at any weight.


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## elder999

Buka said:


> I know it's too early to say, but I think Rousey might be the best woman fighter I've seen in any sport, at any weight.




I'd say that she's the best _competing_ American judoka-at any weight,of either *gender*.


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## Twin Fist

Tate? oh i see it now

i think the issue here is that Rousey is like a friggin pitbull, if you let her close the gap, she WILL get her hands on you and she WILL take you down and she WILL get your parts and bend them in ways the lord didnt design. Sort of like Royce was before he had to go and cheat......

the only real way to beat her is to NOT let her close the gap.

JJ wouldnt have saved tate. Boxing would. If tate had landed some better shots, yeah, like elder said. Tate could have won. 

as it is? Rousey is gonna be hard to beat.


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## Steve

Twin Fist said:


> jui jitsu? apparently her JUDO is doing just fine for her......


Meisha Tate.  Not Rousey.  Her judo's good.   Rousey's got a good armbar, but she does leave room to escape.  She crosses her feet, which allows her to widen her knees and put pressure on her opponent's head.  It's a different control than what you'll learn in most BJJ schools.  Traditional BJJ technique is to avoid crossing your feet, to pull back on your heels for control and to squeeze the knees together to isolate the arm and shoulder.  

Widening the knee can be effective, but it opens the door to a couple of different escapes.  Your head is pinned more tightly making it harder to turn your hips and stack, but your shoulders aren't as locked down so if you drive your elbow to the mat, you can negate the submission.

Edit to add, Tate's grappling is also VERY good.  Rousey has a well honed technique, but Tate hung well during the scrambles and actually had Rousey in trouble more than once.  While it's true that Rousey dominated this fight, to say that Tate's grappling was insufficient is a bit of a stretch.  She's clearly got work to do, but Tate demonstrated heavy hips, good awareness on the mat, some solid positional control and pulled off a couple of slick reversals that led to her taking Rousey's back.  

Rousey IS a beast.  She's tenacious and has a clear advantage over most in the take down arena.  Her ground skills, however, while VERY good are not without flaw.  And if she believes that she's unstoppable on the mat, THAT is a flaw in itself.  Overconfidence will bite you in the ***.  She is an elite level judoka, but last I heard, bronze isn't the same as first place.  Someone out there is a better judoka.  Someone out there is a better grappler.  Just saying.


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## Twin Fist

it seems to be working for her.


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## Steve

Twin Fist said:


> it seems to be working for her.


I'll put two things out there. 

First, MMA is like the stock market; past performance is no guarantee of future success.  In other words, you stop to rest on your laurels and someone still working on improving will expose you.

Second, it is working for her because so far the female MMA scene is pretty shallow.  I think she's going to cream Kaufman.  Just annihilate her.  But Rousey goes up against another solid striker and elite level grappler, and we'll really see whether she can push through adversity.  So far, this is the closest to a real test she's had.  I'd love to give Tate some time to work on her game and her gameplan and see what happens in a rematch.  Give it a year and we'll see a different fight.  Will be fun to watch.


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## Twin Fist

this is certainly true.

but who else is out there?

carano is making movies

the she beast cyborg was doping and is irrelevant now.

rousey isnt just winning, she is destroying people. Before this fight, her longest fight was 44 SECONDS.

this one was just over 4 minutes, and tate is as good as any woman out there.


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## Steve

Twin Fist said:


> this is certainly true.
> 
> but who else is out there?


Who was out there before Rousey?  Or in other words, we all know Rousey's name now... when's the first time you heard it?  3 weeks ago?  3 months ago?

Point is, it's a shallow field because there hasn't been a lot of attention on it.  There are lots of female athletes out there competing and training.  

TF, I don't disagree with your assessment of Rousey.  You're spot on.  I'm just a little more optimistic that there are other "Rouseys" out there waiting for a chance and someone to notice them.  They're training hard and looking for a break.


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## Omar B

Who said I didnt think Rousey was the real deal?  Olympic Judo?

I've liked this chick since I saw an interview with her a few months ago.  I love the cut of her jib.


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## elder999

Twin Fist said:


> this is certainly true.
> 
> but who else is out there?
> 
> carano is making movies
> 
> the she beast cyborg was doping and is irrelevant now.
> 
> rousey isnt just winning, she is destroying people. Before this fight, her longest fight was 44 SECONDS.
> 
> this one was just over 4 minutes, and tate is as good as any woman out there.



Carano might come back to fight her, though I doubt it. 

There's some gals at Greg Jackson's, though......


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## Twin Fist

i hope so, a sport isnt buildt on ONE superstar, you need a field of solid skilled fighters.

Rousey might be head and shoulders on top right now, but she will need good fights to help the sport grow.



Steve said:


> Who was out there before Rousey?  Or in other words, we all know Rousey's name now... when's the first time you heard it?  3 weeks ago?  3 months ago?
> 
> Point is, it's a shallow field because there hasn't been a lot of attention on it.  There are lots of female athletes out there competing and training.
> 
> TF, I don't disagree with your assessment of Rousey.  You're spot on.  I'm just a little more optimistic that there are other "Rouseys" out there waiting for a chance and someone to notice them.  They're training hard and looking for a break.


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## Buka

I first heard of Rousey in 04 when she qualified for the Olympics in Athens. There was a nice piece on her on the local news. (I live in the same state)
Mom was a World Judo champ. Taught Ronda arm bars when she was still in Garanimals. (Can you imagine?) Not only is the girl a seasoned veteran, and a true armbaroholic, she's just plain tough as hard wood.


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## WC_lun

Props to both women.  That was a great match.  Both are the real deal.

Seeing the match, I do have to wonder how Rousey will fare when she faces an opponent that can sit down on thier striking a bit, creating power like what a skilled boxer would do.  I do pity anyone that Rousey gets top position on in a scramble.


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## Twin Fist

Steve said:


> I think she's going to cream Kaufman.  Just annihilate her.




turns out you were right Steve-O


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## elder999

Twin Fist said:


> turns out you were right Steve-O



_Pedigree_

The only way to beat that armbar is to not be in it. The only way to not be in it is to not get in it. Womens are screwed until then-I'm not sure *I* could beat that armbar-pretty sure I couldn't, without poking her damn eye out......:lfao:


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## Kong Soo Do

Is she really the _real deal_?  I mean, it took her almost a whole minute to win her last fight 

J/K  

At one point early in the fight it looked like Kaufman was going to try and lift up Rousey and then slam her back down like she did to that gal in another fight and knocked her out.  But Rousey is simply to tall/big for Kaufman to pull it off.  She tried though so I give her credit for trying.  Clearly a decisive win for Rousey.


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## Steve

Kong Soo Do said:


> Is she really the _real deal_?  I mean, it took her almost a whole minute to win her last fight
> 
> J/K
> 
> At one point early in the fight it looked like Kaufman was going to try and lift up Rousey and then slam her back down like she did to that gal in another fight and knocked her out.  But Rousey is simply to tall/big for Kaufman to pull it off.  She tried though so I give her credit for trying.  Clearly a decisive win for Rousey.


Standing up in an armbar is risky.  Often, in MMA, they're slick enough with sweat to pull it off.  But within the first minute of a fight, and with someone who has such a tight armbar, it's begging to make the joint lock even tighter.


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## ETinCYQX

None of the women are close to Ronda, she's the only one with high level grappling and there isn't really any high level striking in women's MMA, regardless of what Gina Carano claims to be good at.


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## Never_A_Reflection

ETinCYQX said:


> None of the women are close to Ronda, she's the only one with high level grappling and there isn't really any high level striking in women's MMA, regardless of what Gina Carano claims to be good at.



There are BJJ black belts and champions in women's MMA--in fact, Ronda armbarred one of them (Ediane Gomes)--so I wouldn't say that there is no high level grappling outside of Ronda, but Ronda is definitely on another level. As far as the striking goes, I sometimes see very good striking and other times very bad striking, even from the same fighters, so there is definitely a consistency issue as much as anything. I think the more WMMA is built-up and publicized the more money it will make and the more women will start training, and that will increase the talent pool and the level of skill overall. Until then, Ronda is the top of the food chain!


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## Tez3

Never_A_Reflection said:


> There are BJJ black belts and champions in women's MMA--in fact, Ronda armbarred one of them (Ediane Gomes)--so I wouldn't say that there is no high level grappling outside of Ronda, but Ronda is definitely on another level. As far as the striking goes, I sometimes see very good striking and other times very bad striking, even from the same fighters, so there is definitely a consistency issue as much as anything. I think the more WMMA is built-up and publicized the more money it will make and the more women will start training, and that will increase the talent pool and the level of skill overall. *Until then, Ronda is the top of the food chain*!



At her weight! She dropped weight so as not to face Cyborg though. There is more than one weight category in womens MMA, Rousey is not the only female MMA fighter who is good, as I said she's good at her weight.


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## Twin Fist

just cant give credit, you have to put qualifiers on it......predictable

cyborg doesnt even merit a mention, she is a cheating man ***** and should be banned for life, and if they havnt already, all her fights should be reversed, and declared for the girls she fought AND CHEATED to beat.


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## Tez3

Twin Fist said:


> just cant give credit, you have to put qualifiers on it......predictable
> 
> cyborg doesnt even merit a mention, she is a cheating man ***** and should be banned for life, and if they havnt already, all her fights should be reversed, and declared for the girls she fought AND CHEATED to beat.




Diddums, of course you have to put a qualifier on it lol, its the same for the men, you look at the weight classes and then say such and such fighter is the best in his weight class, don't let boobs and bums cloud your judgement. Lets look at this professionally. BTW Rousey changed weight categories before Cyborg was decalered to be taking illegal substances.


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## elder999

Tez3 said:


> Diddums, of course you have to put a qualifier on it lol, its the same for the men, you look at the weight classes and then say such and such fighter is the best in his weight class, don't let boobs and bums cloud your judgement. Lets look at this professionally. BTW Rousey changed weight categories before Cyborg was decalered to be taking illegal substances.



She probably didn't do it to avoid Gina Carano or Cyborg, though-she did it because it put her four minutes away from a championship....:lol:


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## Twin Fist

Tez3 said:


> don't let boobs and bums cloud your judgement. Lets look at this professionally.



Tate is much hotter, if i was gonna let mini me guide my choices, i would be a tate fanboy, so nice try but no


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## Tez3

Twin Fist said:


> Tate is much hotter, if i was gonna let mini me guide my choices, i would be a tate fanboy, so nice try but no



I don't know why you are thinking this is against Rousey, there are five weight categories in women's MMA, Straw, Fly, Superfly, Bantam and Featherweight. there's a top ten in each weight in the world rankings, Rousey heads the latter two, I'm sure she'd be the first to point out that she is the best at the moment at those weights. It takes nothing from her to point out she doesn't head the first three weights.


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## elder999

Tez3 said:


> I don't know why you are thinking this is against Rousey, there are five weight categories in women's MMA, Straw, Fly, Superfly, Bantam and Featherweight. there's a top ten in each weight in the world rankings, Rousey heads the latter two, I'm sure she'd be the first to point out that she is the best at the moment at those weights. It takes nothing from her to point out she doesn't head the first three weights.




Well, it is, Tez-Gina Carano *cannot* get down to 135 lbs., she had enought trouble making weight at 140, so Rousey-who is clearly comfortable at 135, would have to go up in weight to fight her. And she probably will, and she'd probably win. Frankly, I don't think Gina Carano is interested in fighting anymore, and it's easy to talk when you know it's never gonna happen....


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## Tez3

elder999 said:


> Well, it is, Tez-Gina Carano *cannot* get down to 135 lbs., she had enought trouble making weight at 140, so Rousey-who is clearly comfortable at 135, would have to go up in weight to fight her. And she probably will, and she'd probably win. Frankly, I don't think Gina Carano is interested in fighting anymore, and it's easy to talk when you know it's never gonna happen....



Carano? I wasn't talking about her fighting at all, it's Cyborg who is making a lot of noise about Rousey cutting weight to avoid fighting here, she's made a few statements about it recently.


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## Skpotamus

Tez3 said:


> Carano? I wasn't talking about her fighting at all, it's Cyborg who is making a lot of noise about Rousey cutting weight to avoid fighting here, she's made a few statements about it recently.



Cyborg is trying to stay relevent after she got caught using steroids, so take it with a grain of salt.  She can't fight again until December and is trying to not be forgotton, or remembered as a cheater by tossing heat someone elses way.  
She's calling out the champ in a weight class below hers for a catchweight bout.  
1) The champ doesn't come to you, you come to the champ to challenge, that's way it's always been.  That's the way it should be.  
2) Cyborg could probably make the 135 weight class if she'd stop roiding, but then she'd lose her big size and strength advantage over her opponents.


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## Tgace

Rousey needs to work on her stand up/striking game if only to round out her abilities. Most of her fights look like a wading in...grab...throw...break...affair. Its been working for her. Cant deny that. Till it stops working.

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2


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## Tez3

Skpotamus said:


> Cyborg is trying to stay relevent after she got caught using steroids, so take it with a grain of salt. She can't fight again until December and is trying to not be forgotton, or remembered as a cheater by tossing heat someone elses way.
> She's calling out the champ in a weight class below hers for a catchweight bout.
> 1) The champ doesn't come to you, you come to the champ to challenge, that's way it's always been. That's the way it should be.
> 2) Cyborg could probably make the 135 weight class if she'd stop roiding, but then she'd lose her big size and strength advantage over her opponents.



Absolutely, she's been bumping her gums alot about Rousey at the moment however what she was saying about Rousey dropping weight to avoid fighting her was _before_ the steroid use was out, as it were, (though it was obvious to anyone with half an idea of what steroids do!) There's enough in it that it could well be true that Rousey cut weight so that she didn't have to fight her...tbh I would!


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## Twin Fist

why wasnt cyborg banned for life?


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## Steve

Twin Fist said:


> why wasnt cyborg banned for life?


Because there's an administrative process.  But it's pretty clear that she's been juicing for a long time.  I tend to agree with Rousey that if Cyborg were to stop juicing, she'd lose weight.  She'd also be a lot less dominant.  Look at most of the guys who came to the UFC from Pride.  Guys like Wanderlei Silva who had dropped two weight classes now and is also far less dominant than he was in Pride.  Shogun Rua was a Pride heavyweight and is now fighting at LHW with mixed success.  Rampage Jackson... he's still a big LHW, but he's not fighting as a heavy weight and is also far less dominant than he was in Pride.

Point is, Rousey's right to put the pressure on Cyborg.


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## Tez3

Steve said:


> Because there's an administrative process. But it's pretty clear that she's been juicing for a long time. I tend to agree with Rousey that if Cyborg were to stop juicing, she'd lose weight. She'd also be a lot less dominant. Look at most of the guys who came to the UFC from Pride. Guys like Wanderlei Silva who had dropped two weight classes now and is also far less dominant than he was in Pride. Shogun Rua was a Pride heavyweight and is now fighting at LHW with mixed success. Rampage Jackson... he's still a big LHW, but he's not fighting as a heavy weight and is also far less dominant than he was in Pride.
> 
> Point is, Rousey's right to put the pressure on Cyborg.



I'm not sure it's Rousey putting pressure on Cyborg rather than it's Cyborg trying to put pressure on her to put the weight back on and fight her as she would 'need' the fight more. Cyborg does have a point in saying Rousey went down a weight to avoid her which I do actually think she did and frankly who can blame her. It would be sensible. However Rousey will have to up her game whatever she decides to do.


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## Steve

Tez3 said:


> I'm not sure it's Rousey putting pressure on Cyborg rather than it's Cyborg trying to put pressure on her to put the weight back on and fight her as she would 'need' the fight more. Cyborg does have a point in saying Rousey went down a weight to avoid her which I do actually think she did and frankly who can blame her. It would be sensible. However Rousey will have to up her game whatever she decides to do.


Rousey's strong at 135.  She's dominant.  

Look at guys like Frankie Edgar.  He fought at 155 for a long time, and while he was competitive, he wasn't dominant.  The nature of the game is for people to fight at the absolute lowest weight that they can cut to and still be strong and fit.  Rousey is obviously very strong and fit at 135.  Now, once she's cleaned out the 135 bracket, then we can begin talking about her stepping up a weight class.

But all of that aside, Cyborg IS on the juice, and it's very likely that a cut to 135 would be very possible were she to STOP taking the juice.  Also, Rousey is correct in that she doesn't need the fight.  Cyborg is struggling to remain relevant.  Rousey is a household name in and out of MMA.  Rousey is wearing a championship belt; Cyborg is not.


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## Tez3

Steve said:


> Rousey's strong at 135. She's dominant.
> 
> Look at guys like Frankie Edgar. He fought at 155 for a long time, and while he was competitive, he wasn't dominant. The nature of the game is for people to fight at the absolute lowest weight that they can cut to and still be strong and fit. Rousey is obviously very strong and fit at 135. Now, once she's cleaned out the 135 bracket, then we can begin talking about her stepping up a weight class.
> 
> But all of that aside, Cyborg IS on the juice, and it's very likely that a cut to 135 would be very possible were she to STOP taking the juice. Also, Rousey is correct in that she doesn't need the fight. Cyborg is struggling to remain relevant. Rousey is a household name in and out of MMA. Rousey is wearing a championship belt; Cyborg is not.



As I said it's Cyborg that wants the fight more even though she's saying Rousey is irrelevant ( interesting choice of words though lol) and that she doesn't want to fight Rousey. 
With weight it's best to be at the top of a weight division rather than the bottom, therefore cutting weight to make the weigh in then putting that weight back on for fight is what is the norm. What's Rousey's walking around weight, her weigh in weight and her fight weight, any idea? am off on nights in a bit so don't have time to look it up.


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## Steve

Tez3 said:


> As I said it's Cyborg that wants the fight more even though she's saying Rousey is irrelevant ( interesting choice of words though lol) and that she doesn't want to fight Rousey.
> With weight it's best to be at the top of a weight division rather than the bottom, therefore cutting weight to make the weigh in then putting that weight back on for fight is what is the norm. What's Rousey's walking around weight, her weigh in weight and her fight weight, any idea? am off on nights in a bit so don't have time to look it up.


Ah, I think we're saying the same thing.  I just couldn't understand because your accent is so thick! 

I'll see if I can dig up some information on Rousey's walking around weight and fighting weight.  It would be interesting to know how much water she cuts.


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## Tez3

Steve said:


> Ah, I think we're saying the same thing. I just couldn't understand because your accent is so thick!
> 
> I'll see if I can dig up some information on Rousey's walking around weight and fighting weight. It would be interesting to know how much water she cuts.




LOL! Please don't mention water..it's Bank Holiday here and as usual it's raining, still it's keeps the troublemakers indoors, sadly though it's quiet now as all ours are either in Afghan on on their way. 
I think the biggest difference I've seen between weigh in weight and fighting weight is over 14lbs, that was on a day before weigh in, most of ours are on the day weigh ins due to people working so there's less difference but a day before can produce some quite big differences.


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## Tez3

Just saw this when checked FB before I go out. http://www.thefightnerd.com/cris-cy...-regarding-rousey-fight-will-not-drop-to-135/


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## Steve

I actually saw that last week.  The thing is, she doesn't "claim she is the 'champion.'"  She IS the champion.  Cyborg is not, after having had her title stripped because of doping.

Also, cutting for judo and cutting for mma are two different things.  Judoka have to fight at closer to their natural weight because they would have to cut as often as every other week in order to compete.  That would be terribly dangerous.  For MMA, however, it's a different thing.  Also, if you look at Rousey when she was in the Olympics, she was clearly a bigger, heavier girl then than now.  She's in great shape, and at this point, frankly, my take is that Cyborg is the one hiding from Rousey.  Every time Cyborg asserts that Rousey cut to 135 to avoid fighting her, I see Cyborg using her weight as an excuse to avoid fighting Rousey.  

All of that said, I just hope that we see some new, young, up and coming studettes that will represent a legitimate threat to either of these two.  THAT will be good for the sport and good for women's MMA.  Two dominant women so far above everyone else will only go so far.


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## Twin Fist

cybord ****ing cheated, and should be banned FOR LIFE, for her to say she never lost a fight is retarded


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## Tez3

Twin Fist said:


> cybord ****ing cheated, and should be banned FOR LIFE, for her to say she never lost a fight is retarded




Reading the comments made by the 'public' under the articles about her it seems she has quite a dedicated following who believe she is still the champion until or if someone actually beats her in the cage, the fact of her taking steroids seems to be ignored by her fans. As far as they are concerned it never happened and the evidence isn't at all obvious to them! 
Some comments I did find interesting though is that a lot of people believe that Strikeforce only want one weight category for women, they can't be bothered having different ones. I imagine if this is true there will be pressure on quite a few to meet the weight needed for this category.


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## WC_lun

Cyborg is still a good fighter, maybe even great.  She did cheat though, which takes her down many notched in my book.  I am not sure she is in a position to demand anything, much less of the champ in a different weight class.

Rousssey up to this point has been a pretty much one trick pony. Granted that one trick is pretty freaking amazing and has won her some important matches.  I am interested to know if she has a brouder skill base.  Can she hold her own in standup?  Will she be able to sit down on her punches for power and anti grappling? What if the arm bar position is never available?  I think she has done a wonderful job so far, but I am curious how she will handle an opponent that does not let her get that arm bar.  Will she be able to adapt from that point on?  I'm looking forward to finding out, but that is going to take an opponent good enough and on the ball enough not to get stopped by that crazy good arm bar.


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## Steve

WC_lun said:


> Cyborg is still a good fighter, maybe even great.  She did cheat though, which takes her down many notched in my book.  I am not sure she is in a position to demand anything, much less of the champ in a different weight class.
> 
> Rousssey up to this point has been a pretty much one trick pony. Granted that one trick is pretty freaking amazing and has won her some important matches.  I am interested to know if she has a brouder skill base.  Can she hold her own in standup?  Will she be able to sit down on her punches for power and anti grappling? What if the arm bar position is never available?  I think she has done a wonderful job so far, but I am curious how she will handle an opponent that does not let her get that arm bar.  Will she be able to adapt from that point on?  I'm looking forward to finding out, but that is going to take an opponent good enough and on the ball enough not to get stopped by that crazy good arm bar.


Regarding her stand-up, she's definitely still learning.  She leaves herself exposed and will end up getting put down at some point.  

As for her grappling, understand that she's not just going for one submission.  Even though it's an "armbar," her entry to the submission, the transitions as she moves from one armbar to the next, and the finish, is different just about every match.  "Just an armbar" is anything but.  It's like saying that Cung Le is a one trick pony because all he's got is a "kick."  

Truthfully, the only question I have about Rousey's grappling is her guard.  IMO, the biggest difference between BJJ and other styles of grappling is that in most grappling arts, there is an emphasis on working from the top position.  Rousey is dominant on the top.  She is a beast.  But, as with many wrestlers who are unaccustomed to working off their backs, I wonder how much time she spends in training working from guard.   If someone like Tate (or Cyborg) could reverse Rousey and establish a dominant, top position, it will be interesting to see how well Rousey handles it.  

Also, and this is admittedly nitpicky and petty, but anti-grappling is really just grappling.


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## Twin Fist

aint no one LETTING her get the arm bar, she isnt getting it, she is TAKING IT.


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## Tez3

Twin Fist said:


> aint no one LETTING her get the arm bar, she isnt getting it, she is TAKING IT.



And her opponents will be working on not letting her get it so she had better be able to do something else.


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## Tony Dismukes

This is a really nice breakdown of Rousey's tactics in achieving the armbar:
http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2012/8/20/3254900/strikeforce-rousey-kaufman-judo-chop-ronda-armbar-breaks-sarahs-defenses#storyjump


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## Skpotamus

Tez3 said:


> And her opponents will be working on not letting her get it so she had better be able to do something else.



So far, her opponents haven't been able to stop her armbars, at least, not all her setups and chains into them.  It looks to me more like she's decided that the armbar will be HER submission, and she's worked on lots of ways to get it.  Kind of the master of one thing vs jack of all trades.  However, we don't know for sure what the rest of her subs look like since no one has been able to stop the armbar setup and breakdown sequences she uses.  

The breakdown on bloody elbow is a great writeup on her tactics and how she was adjusting.  It seems like she's got her fight plan mapped out quite a few steps ahead and sticks to it.  I think her biggest problem will be someone that can keep her out of the clinch and strike at a distance.  I don't know if anyone in WMMA can do that right now though.


----------



## elder999

Tez3 said:


> And her opponents will be working on not letting her get it so she had better be able to do something else.




"Opponents?" I see no "opponents."

I only see _*victims*_....:lfao:


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## Makalakumu

It occurred to me that judo is one of the only combat sports where a woman can play at a really high level, so it makes sense that someone would dominate coming from the elite levels of that art. The high level college wrestling that a lot of men come from, doesn't really exist for women. Therefore, wouldn't it be interesting if the best high level mma fighters were judoka? Perhaps the only person that can beat a bronze medalists arm bar is a silver or gold medalist?


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## Tez3

Skpotamus said:


> So far, her opponents haven't been able to stop her armbars, at least, not all her setups and chains into them. It looks to me more like she's decided that the armbar will be HER submission, and she's worked on lots of ways to get it. Kind of the master of one thing vs jack of all trades. However, we don't know for sure what the rest of her subs look like since no one has been able to stop the armbar setup and breakdown sequences she uses.
> 
> The breakdown on bloody elbow is a great writeup on her tactics and how she was adjusting. It seems like she's got her fight plan mapped out quite a few steps ahead and sticks to it. I think her biggest problem will be someone that can keep her out of the clinch and strike at a distance. *I don't know if anyone* *in WMMA can do that right now though*.



Probably because you are only seeing it as an American sport. If  American promotions don't sign up opponents from outside the country you will have only a limited amount of opponents.
Women rank highly in kickboxing as well as Judo


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## Makalakumu

Tez3 said:


> Probably because you are only seeing it as an American sport. If  American promotions don't sign up opponents from outside the country you will have only a limited amount of opponents.
> Women rank highly in kickboxing as well as Judo



That could very well be true. I don't think the US has a very competitive kickboxing sport for women. I wonder if the Dutch ladies could put a hurt on Rousey?


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## Skpotamus

Tez3 said:


> Probably because you are only seeing it as an American sport. If  American promotions don't sign up opponents from outside the country you will have only a limited amount of opponents.
> Women rank highly in kickboxing as well as Judo



Well, I've not seen much womens mma from European countries yet.  I've seen plenty of Japanese and Americans, and some Brazilians, but not many euro's yet.  Would be interesting to see some of them come over and try to compete.  Until they do start fighting in the same organization as Rousey, I'll stand by my original statement.


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## Tez3

Skpotamus said:


> Well, I've not seen much womens mma from European countries yet. I've seen plenty of Japanese and Americans, and some Brazilians, but not many euro's yet. Would be interesting to see some of them come over and try to compete. Until they do start fighting in the same organization as Rousey, I'll stand by my original statement.




British women have come and fought in the US, not sure how you could have missed them tbh.


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## Twin Fist

oh lord, is this another "ROSIE SEXTON OR NOTHING" post from you?


*sigh*


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## Gorilla

Womens MMA is in the embryo stage...a one trick pony such as Rousey can still win...we have allot of great women athletes who will come into the sport and change that...Ms Rousey will need to continue to work on her striking or she won't be winning 3 years from now...I am a big fan of hers and she is putting WMMA on the map but she will have to improve!

5 years from now WMMA will be allot better and I am looking forward to it!


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## Tez3

Twin Fist said:


> oh lord, is this another "ROSIE SEXTON OR NOTHING" post from you?
> 
> 
> *sigh*



 You really should suck less lemons you know. There's been more than Rosi who's fought in America but hey if you're being sarky to me at least you are leaving someone else alone rofl.

.


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## elder999

Twin Fist said:


> oh lord, is this another "ROSIE SEXTON OR NOTHING" post from you?



*Who?*

EDIT: Oh, never mind. I Googled her.....who? :lfao:


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## Tez3

elder999 said:


> *Who?*
> 
> EDIT: Oh, never mind. I Googled her.....who? :lfao:



She's a good friend of mine, you'd like her, smart and and can fight probably why TF doesn't like her rofl. Actually I was thinking of other fighters but there you go.


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## Steve

Tez, serious question for you.  Why do you think it's so difficult for the top quality fighters in the UK to sign with the larger promotions?


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## Tez3

Steve said:


> Tez, serious question for you. Why do you think it's so difficult for the top quality fighters in the UK to sign with the larger promotions?



MMA here is a very small sport, apart from about three fighters I know of all fighters here are amateurs in that while they may fight under pro rules and receive a purse they all have day jobs. They simply cannot afford to give up those jobs to seek a full time fight career. Few can afford to train full time, training is done at nights and weekends at the expense of time with families. Employers aren't willing to or can't give time off to attend things like TUF auditions etc. Few are as lucky as Martin Stapleton who appeared on one TUF series as he's a Royal Marine and was given time off to be on the show, for him the choice was between his military career and fighting, he chose the military,in fact he's just resuming his fighting again after a tour in Afghan. 
In Bisping's early days on UFC he was still working various jobs until he moved to America. Dan Hardy gave up his university degree course to become a fighter, he wasn't working and was single, on benefits for a while. Other Brit fighters on the UFC have also been working as well as fighting. Being an MMA fighter simply isn't a job that pays enough to warrant the huge sacrifices fighters and their families would have to make to get to the so called top. 
Perhaps when we finally get a governing body and the sport gets bigger you will see more Brit fighters.


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## punisher73

Twin Fist said:


> why wasnt cyborg banned for life?



Because nobody is on their first violation.  Look at the list of guys who have been caught roiding.  Royce Gracie comes to mind when he fought Sakuraba the 2nd time.  

I would be in agreement if they are caught roiding then the fight is declared a NC and doesn't add a win/loss to anyone's record.


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## punisher73

Tez3 said:


> British women have come and fought in the US, not sure how you could have missed them tbh.



Because in the US, we don't see anyone fight in kickboxing.  You might get lucky and catch something late night or off hours on ESPN 2 or 3, but it's not mainstream at all.  Even when K-1 was huge, you couldn't find it here very easily.


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## punisher73

elder999 said:


> She probably didn't do it to avoid Gina Carano or Cyborg, though-she did it because it put her four minutes away from a championship....:lol:



Exactly, look at how many fighters in the UFC have bumped around in weight classes at the lower weights to try and get a title shot or the belt.  It's how the game is played.  Why wouldn't you go to a different class if one division is completely stacked and the next one isn't and you could go in either class with no problems.


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## Tez3

punisher73 said:


> Because in the US, we don't see anyone fight in kickboxing. You might get lucky and catch something late night or off hours on ESPN 2 or 3, but it's not mainstream at all. Even when K-1 was huge, you couldn't find it here very easily.



I wasn't talking about kickboxers I was meaning MMA fighters, Lisa Higo for one.


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## elder999

Tez3 said:


> I wasn't talking about kickboxers I was meaning MMA fighters, Lisa Higo for one.


Who?? :lol:


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## punisher73

Tez3 said:


> I wasn't talking about kickboxers I was meaning MMA fighters, Lisa Higo for one.



Oops, but sorry haven't heard of any UK female fighters period.  Unless they have fought in a hyped match, the US audience isn't really exposed to any female fighters.
Cyborg would be unheard of if she hadn't fought Carano.  Rousey wouldn't have been heard of if she hadn't hyped herself and talked about her looks.  That's the bad thing with women's MMA in the US right now, it is still seen as a "curiosity" and not taken seriously as a womens's sport.  Rousey didn't do women or the sprot any favors by talking about her looks and getting it judged by the "hotness" of the contestants.


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## Twin Fist

i would say she has done her sport a LOT of good by totally dominating everyone they put in front of her and doing so LIKE A BOSS


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## Steve

So, the question I have is, is it any wonder we haven't heard of them?  Tez has said that it's just not big enough in the UK to support high level professional fighters.  I understand that.  But if that's the case, is it any wonder that we don't see any high level female MMA fighters on the horizon who can compete with Rhonda Rousey?   That is, after all, the topic of this thread.

Tez, is there anyone in the UK who you think has the chops to defeat Rousey?  If so, who?

The point remains that she is, right now, clearly head and shoulders above anyone else in women's MMA with the possible exception of Cyborg.


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## Makalakumu

Let's get the British fighters over here so the Yanks can1776 em! Lol!


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## Makalakumu

http://www.bjpenn.com/mmanews/2012/...eated-olympic-medalist-sara-mcmann-36005.html

Here is a woman that might do some real damage to Rousey. Now we'll see just how good she is off her back. I doubt she'll be able to defend a power double from an Olympic Wrestler!


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## punisher73

Twin Fist said:


> i would say she has done her sport a LOT of good by totally dominating everyone they put in front of her and doing so LIKE A BOSS





Yeah, way to play the 'sex sells' card.  She has also made comments about her looks being good for the sport.  I'm not so sure (my opinion only of couse).  Why do you need to hype the fighters looks instead of what they can do?  As an athlete, you are right she is a good fighter and has dominated her competition.  Let it stand as that though.


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## Tez3

The face is lovely but the body? Large shoulders and hipbones jutting out like an anorexic. Certainly no boobs or backside, disappointing that it's a look thats being hyped buying into the skinny thing rather than the athletic look of Kyra Gracie. Has it been airbrushed?
Oh and I'm not jealous of the Rousey look. I'm not against that type of photo there's some very nice ones of male MMA fighters but I am against hyping the anorexic look.


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## Tez3

Makalakumu said:


> Let's get the British fighters over here so the Yanks can1776 em! Lol!



Really? when the Brits were against a Yank the Yank lost. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ultimate_Fighter:_United_States_vs._United_Kingdom_Finale


Still you have this coming! http://www.ucmma.tv/index.php/component/content/article/1-latest-news/459-warrior-island

I'm available to translate what Dave says, he's an excitable guy so he'll fit in with American television!


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## Skpotamus

Tez, have any women from the UK fought in the US recently?  You mentioned Higo, who I actually saw figh tlive at HooknShoot (didn't know she was a brit), but her last fight was 3 years ago.


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## Tez3

Skpotamus said:


> Tez, have any women from the UK fought in the US recently? You mentioned Higo, who I actually saw figh tlive at HooknShoot (didn't know she was a brit), but her last fight was 3 years ago.



Lisa can't afford to come across for fights, most of the Brits are in that position. they get paid *after* fights ( which is also taxed by the Americans as well as the UK so not much left anyway) not before so finding the flight, hotel and other expenses in the first place is very difficult. You have to have someone in the States who can do your publicity to get you on the promotions as well, it's a Catch 22 situation for us in Europe not just in the UK, I suspect actually the rest of the world too. It all comes down to money I'm afraid.


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## Twin Fist

and Cyborg doesnt count


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## Tames D

Tez3 said:


> The face is lovely but the body? Large shoulders and hipbones jutting out like an anorexic. Certainly no boobs or backside, disappointing that it's a look thats being hyped buying into the skinny thing rather than the athletic look of Kyra Gracie. Has it been airbrushed?
> Oh and I'm not jealous of the Rousey look. I'm not against that type of photo there's some very nice ones of male MMA fighters but I am against hyping the anorexic look.



Tez - I look at the photo and I see a well conditioned body in GREAT shape. Have you seen pictures of anorexic people. Real anorexic people? Do a google, I think you'll see what I'm talking about. I love you Tez but but this is not representative of anorexia.


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## Gorilla

Makalakumu said:


> http://www.bjpenn.com/mmanews/2012/...eated-olympic-medalist-sara-mcmann-36005.html
> 
> Here is a woman that might do some real damage to Rousey. Now we'll see just how good she is off her back. I doubt she'll be able to defend a power double from an Olympic Wrestler!



This will be good for WMMA.  It does highlight that it is still in the embryo stage as a sport! Judo V wrestling very much like UFC circa 1993 (style v style).  But bringing in this class of athlete is exciting.


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## Tez3

Tames D said:


> Tez - I look at the photo and I see a well conditioned body in GREAT shape. Have you seen pictures of anorexic people. Real anorexic people? Do a google, I think you'll see what I'm talking about. I love you Tez but but this is not representative of anorexia.



Did I say she was anorexic? No, I said it was the anorexic look which is 'fashionable' in the media, the size 0 look. she is far too skinny, ask any woman. Her hips are bony, she has no boobs and no backside, sure she has a flat stomach but she's still skinny. As for the photo I'd suggest you go across to the womanes section here and look at the threads about the portrayal of women in martial arts for womens' points of view on this.


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## Tames D

Tez3 said:


> The face is lovely but the body? Large shoulders and _*hipbones jutting out like an anorexic*_. Certainly no boobs or backside, disappointing that it's a look thats being hyped buying into the skinny thing rather than the athletic look of Kyra Gracie. Has it been airbrushed?
> Oh and I'm not jealous of the Rousey look. I'm not against that type of photo there's some very nice ones of male MMA fighters but I am against hyping the anorexic look.



Tez - Yes you ARE calling her anorexic. Am I missing something here? Google Anorexic.


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## Tez3

Tames D said:


> Tez - Yes you ARE calling her anorexic. Am I missing something here? Google Anorexic.



I'm afraid you are missing something, I'm not saying she's anorexic at all, if I thought she was I would say so not just say her hipbones stick out like an anorexics, which they do. I don't know if you are aware of fashion and girl's 'role models' in the media or the furore about the size zero models. The airbrushing of pop and film starts so that they look ultra thin. It's been a huge worry for womens group's and parents for a while now that the 'role models' for girls is that of a very thin female. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/a...-essential-nutrients-warns-food-watchdog.html
http://www.divinecaroline.com/36/111724-body-image-media
http://cjr08.wordpress.com/2008/06/...al-of-the-thin-ideal-contributes-to-anorexia/

Rousey standing there in a ring girl pose looking as skinnny as she does is a negative portrayal in more than one way. She's not anorexic but her body in that photo is sending out the 'you've got to be thin' messages. 
There are two very good threads on the portrayal of women in the martial arts in the women's section. There's also a very good photo of Rousey on there where she's not looking like a skinny ring girl.


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## Tez3

This is a good photo.


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## SuperFLY

Tames D said:


> Tez - Yes you ARE calling her anorexic. Am I missing something here? Google Anorexic.


no i dont think you are.

she's an athlete, she's just 'fit' no more no less. considering the fact she has to maintain a weight to fight in a particular class accusing her of perpetuating an anorexic 'body image' is ludicrous.

knowing nothing about tez, from what im reading here it looks like a case of the green eyed monster.

and tez you cannot argue with that statement as i didnt actually say you were jealous, i just said it looks like you are. (see what i did there? )

i dont mean it anyway, just trying to make a point.

saying 'looks like an anorexic' = saying 'she is an anorexic'

no other way i can see it. arguing semantics.

great shot above btw, definitely some meat on her bones there.. she looks great


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## Tez3

So, it's the green eyed monster because I don't like one photo of her but do like another a lot? The weight issue with her has been discussed already, Cyborg and her fans believe she's dropped weight because she wants to avoid fighting Cyborg, Rousey's side on the other hand say she is fighting at a good weight for her right now. You puts your money where you think the line lies. Looking at her, regardless of the weight cutting issues I think she's cut too much.
If I said someone has a face like a horse does that make them a horse? Nah don't think so, don't read into words something that's not there I said her hipbones look like an anorexics simply because they do, she looks so much better with a bit of weight on, she looks fit, attractive and a great role model for girls and young women who as I teach martial arts to young teenage girls I'm most concerned about, I want to be able to say to them 'look at this for a great female fighter and athlete' I don't want to show them someone who looks like a skinny ring girl, I want the girls to have positive role models not negative ones like the size xero celebs. It's a serious issue not a case of oh she's jealous  that argument is always used by men. For all you know I may be gay and enjoy looking at women's bodies, just not skinny womens ones!


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## Gorilla

Tez3... I get what you are saying...it is a shame that women have to sell their sexuality like this...Ronda really did not want to do this...she was concerned about naked pictures getting out...some showed up on youtube...she was not happy...she did an interview the Day of the film session...she did not look this thin...probably around 140...they airbrushed the crap out of this photo...that photo is not reality...it is sad....isn't being a great athlete good enough!


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## Tez3

Gorilla said:


> Tez3... I get what you are saying...it is a shame that women have to sell their sexuality like this...Ronda really did not want to do this...she was concerned about naked pictures getting out...some showed up on youtube...she was not happy...she did an interview the Day of the film session...she did not look this thin...probably around 140...they airbrushed the crap out of this photo...that photo is not reality...it is sad....isn't being a great athlete good enough!



Cheers for that! 
It's as I said the cult of the size zero, why on earth airbrush her, she is looks really good in the non airbrushed photos!. I wouldn't object to nude photos if she wanted to do them but show her as she is, a fit professional MMA fighter not a thin little waif with a 'helpless' expression on her face, for goodness sake she has just destroyed someone in the cage celebrate that or is that too threatening? I suspect it's that aspect they are trying to 'sell'   - that she's not really that good at what she does, she's really just a helpless little girl looking for a big strong man to look after here....as if! They should get over it and 'sell'/promote her as what she is a professional fighter who, while in my opinion needs to round her game more, is perfectly bankable doing what she is doing.


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## Gorilla

I have a daughter....and I don't want her to ever have to sell herself this way!


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## spartan_woman

Rousey is one of my role models. Perhps the best since my first role model, Cris Cyborg, got caught out cheating. If Ronda doesn't persuade all you men that women can fight for real, nobody will. She's wonderfully tough and aggressive.  She doesn't worry about breaking an arm if that's what it takes.  I want to be more like her!


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## Tez3

spartan_woman said:


> Rousey is one of my role models. Perhps the best since my first role model, Cris Cyborg, got caught out cheating. If Ronda doesn't persuade all you men that women can fight for real, nobody will. She's wonderfully tough and aggressive. She doesn't worry about breaking an arm if that's what it takes. I want to be more like her!



All you men? Lol, this woman can fight too. I know a lot of female fighters all of whom are good role models. The men on this site do know women can fight that's never been in doubt. Rousey will be fine if she can persuade the magazines etc not to airbrush her, she looks good as she is and doesn't need to be made to look thinner to appease magazine editors.


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## Gorilla

Ronda Rousey is a great fighter and I am hoping that She gets more fights.  I am also looking for her to be tested standing up ...Nobody is going to be able to stay with her on the ground at this point...

It does not appear that the female fighters thus far have a take down defense to deal with her...if someone can keep it standing she might get beat...until then first round arm bars!


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## ETinCYQX

Gorilla said:


> Ronda Rousey is a great fighter and I am hoping that She gets more fights.  I am also looking for her to be tested standing up ...Nobody is going to be able to stay with her on the ground at this point...
> 
> It does not appear that the female fighters thus far have a take down defense to deal with her...if someone can keep it standing she might get beat...until then first round arm bars!



She imposes her game plan, I don't mind her not demonstrating her standup game. That said I want to see her standing-she trains with the Diaz brothers who have good boxing.


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## SuperFLY

ETinCYQX said:


> She imposes her game plan, I don't mind her not demonstrating her standup game. That said I want to see her standing-she trains with the Diaz brothers who have good boxing.


aye, she's been asked about it before and shes just said that the ground is her best technique so why not use it 

she still has good striking though and thats what she concentrates on now. to quote 'i've had 10 years experience on the mat so im working on my standup'

last female boxer she trained with she broke her jaw.. she's certainly not lacking in striking ability


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## Gorilla

She has been talking about her striking!  Nobody has been able to keep a fight with her standing.  I am looking forward to the day that happens.  She needs to grow!


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## Twin Fist

sort of hard to argue with success......


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## Tez3

Someone will be working out how to defeat her, which can only be to the good of women's MMA in that the more good fighters there are, the better the fights and the bigger the audience. Whether someone will defeat her remains to be seen but it's going to be excellent watching good fighters try, All fighters need something to work for and to keep them motivated.


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## punisher73

Tez3 said:


> Someone will be working out how to defeat her, which can only be to the good of women's MMA in that the more good fighters there are, the better the fights and the bigger the audience. Whether someone will defeat her remains to be seen but it's going to be excellent watching good fighters try, All fighters need something to work for and to keep them motivated.



I think that's the nature of the sport.  Someone will be able to watch enough film of her (or anyone) and be able to put together a game plan to beat her and have the ability to put that plan into effect.  It's definately alot harder for an MMA fighter to be unbeaten for long in their pro career due to the changing nature of the sport and the rock/paper/scissors gameplan that can happen.  Boxing, you only have to worry about one skill set.  Wrestling, you only have to worry about one skill set.  BJJ, you only have to worry about one skill set. Now add all those together with even more variable skill sets and you have alot of ways to negate things.


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## Tez3

It can only be good for women's MMA if they have a target to aim for, it will keep Rousey on her game and encourage others to get good enough to beat her. As they say win-win!.


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## Gorilla

Twin Fist said:


> sort of hard to argue with success......


You are right but the sport won't grow from a female perspective until somebody keeps her standing and makes a competitive fight out of it.....1st round arm bars are cool but that will not grow the sport for women.


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## SuperFLY

Gorilla said:


> You are right but the sport won't grow from a female perspective until somebody keeps her standing and makes a competitive fight out of it.....1st round arm bars are cool but that will not grow the sport for women.


but of course thats not ronda's fault is it?

until someone has the skill to counter her and keeps it standing ronda's gonna do what she does best.. snap arms..

she does want to win of course and if people give her an opening she gonna take it


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## Tez3

SuperFLY said:


> but of course thats not ronda's fault is it?
> 
> until someone has the skill to counter her and keeps it standing ronda's gonna do what she does best.. snap arms..
> 
> she does want to win of course and if people give her an opening she gonna take it



Nobody was saying it was her 'fault', we were commenting on women's MMA. I'm sure, in fact I know, there are women out there who have as much, some even more than her talent but there's a lot of difficulty in getting matched, being taken seriously and being able to find the coaches, sparring partners and facilites to be able to compete on a professional basis. We have a good man excellent male fighters here who cannot make a living or be professional fighters, twice as hard for female fighters. We are all working hard to make women's MMA ( and mens for that matter) better and we will get there one day but it's slow progress.


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## Gorilla

I am a huge Ronda Rousey fan! Great Athlete! Great fighter!  We are about five good fights away from WMMA getting it's just placE!


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## Kenpo5.0Hawker

I'm a huge fan of Ronda's as well. It's hard not to be. She is good. For me there is more to it than just that. My daughter saw Ronda's first fight and was very inspired by Ronda. That lady has really inspired female fighter young and old. That is too cool. 

Tom


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