# Another guy that makes us look bad......



## Shotochem (Oct 25, 2007)

Hi Guys don't know if you have seen this yet.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21469333/


He's too close to home.

-Marc-


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## Drac (Oct 25, 2007)

Words fail me...Another black eye for the MA community in general...


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## Carol (Oct 25, 2007)

*Moderator Note:

Thread moved to Horror Stories

- Carol Kaur - 
- MT Moderator -*


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## JBrainard (Oct 25, 2007)

Well that's just peachy. :disgust:


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## Kennedy_Shogen_Ryu (Oct 25, 2007)

I don't know if any of you heard about this but there was an instructor in my area Joe Foster, who was convicted, and as soon as that story got out our kid enrollment fell through the floor.  Anyone else notice every time a story like this comes out this happens?​


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## terryl965 (Oct 25, 2007)

Kennedy_Shogen_Ryu said:


> I don't know if any of you heard about this but there was an instructor in my area Joe Foster, who was convicted, and as soon as that story got out our kid enrollment fell through the floor. Anyone else notice every time a story like this comes out this happens?​


 

Yes and it is a crying shame, we have enought o over come ona daily basis to have **** like this happening all the time.


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## bushidomartialarts (Oct 25, 2007)

some things make me wish i had three things:

1. a year's salary saved up

2. a big stick.

3. a list of names and addresses


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## Kennedy_Shogen_Ryu (Oct 25, 2007)

bushidomartialarts said:


> some things make me wish i had three things:
> 
> 1. a year's salary saved up
> 
> ...


 

If you want a hand or a stick, or a sword just let me know!


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## newGuy12 (Oct 25, 2007)

JBrainard said:


> Well that's just peachy. :disgust:



Yes.  Instructors have a hard enough time without this foolishness!  I know Instructors who barely make ends meet money wise and then this comes along.

I am no fan of just going "vigilante" on people, but, in a case like this, I do not totally rule out the martial arts community should just handle things themselves!!!

If word got out that if you put everyone into a bad light, then, well, you'll see some Black Belt Students just "show up" and start breaking stuff, then maybe these morons would have some pause before doing such things!!!


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## Cirdan (Oct 25, 2007)

Sometimes I think old Japan was on to something.. using certain kinds of criminals for sword cutting practice could be a good idea.


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## Sensei Payne (Oct 25, 2007)

There are bad people everywhere, just because they're Black Belts dosn't make them good people


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## stone_dragone (Oct 25, 2007)

Sensei Payne said:


> There are bad people everywhere, just because they're Black Belts dosn't make them good people



Very true.

Convene the Counsel of Righteous Anger for a deliberation and punishment.


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## Shotochem (Oct 25, 2007)

This story brings to light an important issue.  We should always try to be as vigilant and aware as possible of all aspects of our childrens lives.  

    There are bad people in this world.  We can't protect our kids from everything, but we can try.  The most important thing you can do is talk to your child, ask him or her about their day and let them know that you are there for them. 

   Make sure to explain to them the things that can happen and what to do if it does happen.  Teach them safety and and awareness of their surroundings. 

     This is just so wrong on so many levels as this person was someone that these children trusted, as well as their parents.  It is a complete total betrayal and violation.  

May he find a cellmate just like himself when he gets convicted.....


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## MA-Caver (Oct 25, 2007)

This is why the death penalty or castration would work against sex offenders ... of any type. 


If they know the consenquences then maybe they'll find another outlet.


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## bushidomartialarts (Oct 25, 2007)

Sensei Payne said:


> There are bad people everywhere, just because they're Black Belts dosn't make them good people




but it _should_, dammit


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## tellner (Oct 25, 2007)

It's like I've said a few times in similar situations. This is more common than we realize. Further, I'd bet that you find more abusers of children and adults in martial arts schools than in the general population. It's absolutely tailor made for it.

Before you warm up the flamethrowers step back and take a look. A martial arts teacher is in a position of trust. He has power both physical and social. "I can beat you up, and I'm the guy with the _special _set of funny pajamas. I'm wiser than Yoda." He sets the tone and defines what is "real" and right in his dojo. Normal rules of conduct don't necessarily apply. He's set up as a larger than life authority figure surrounded by mystery and rituals with a special title. 

It plays to fear. It plays to respect for authority. It plays to mystery. It makes people set aside their normal standards of what is and isn't acceptable. There's a group identity with the teacher in the center. Obedience, awe, fear, normal filters not working and a desire to please the person in authority and thereby be special. If there's a better way to prey on people that way I can't think of it.

It's not just kids. There are plenty of teachers who date their adult students. It's almost always a male teacher and female students although the other combinations happen as well. Some people will say that since everyone is legal age it's all good. Maybe. Sometimes. If the weather is right. But there's just too much built-in power differential and potential for abuse built in for me to feel comfortable with the idea.


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## grydth (Oct 25, 2007)

Looks like I'm the dissenter - I don't agree at all that this individual "makes us look bad." 

First, at this point we are dealing with *allegations.*. Anyone can make them, and I've seen some ugly and inflammatory ones turn out to be totally unfounded. Let's wait until the proof's in before we judge whether this sensei has even made himself look bad....

Even assuming for debate's sake that the guy is guilty of all this, and even double this - how are the predations at all relevant to those of you running martial arts schools across the planet? Because a karate sensei on Long Island is a sex predator, a Tai Chi sifu in California must also be a pederast? Anyone buying into this line of "reasoning" should PM me for special deals on cars and bridges....

Can anyone name me professions or trades that have *NOT* been the subject of horrible sex crimes?  So why smear all MA teachers over 1 monster's actions?

The allegations on their face revolve around one man and one only.... let's save the condemnation for those who deserve it, and those alone.


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## newGuy12 (Oct 25, 2007)

tellner said:


> "I can beat you up, and I'm the guy with the _special _set of funny pajamas. I'm wiser than Yoda."


 
Tellner, you should write books!  You have such a way with words!

This is right.  To a child, the Teacher can be Heroic, larger than life, superhuman!  

grydth, you are right, what you posted.  I thought of that today as well.  I take back what I said earlier in this thread.


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## Empty Hands (Oct 25, 2007)

tellner said:


> It plays to fear. It plays to respect for authority. It plays to mystery. It makes people set aside their normal standards of what is and isn't acceptable. There's a group identity with the teacher in the center.



http://www.*********.net/forums/showthread.php?t=56097

OK, I guess the filter doesn't like certain other websites...

The above link is non-functional.  If you would like to read the story, the missing word is ********* (all together).

_ADMIN NOTE:  NAMES OF SITES HOSTILE TO MARTIALTALK WILL BE FILTERED AND REMOVED EVEN WHEN FILTER IS CIRCUMVENTED. - SHESULSA, MT ASSIST. ADMIN._


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## HelloKitty (Oct 25, 2007)

I read the news and it's horrible. But, as some of you said, this kind of situation can happen at school, at MA academy, etc. etc. The only things to do is talking to the children and the parents must be present in the activities involving them. It doesn't matter how trustable a guy/woman looks, we always must be careful...


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## Ceicei (Oct 26, 2007)

changed my mind... and withdrew my post...


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## MA-Caver (Oct 26, 2007)

bushidomartialarts said:


> Sensei Payne said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I agree with the sentiment Bushido but have to also agree with the realistic statement of Sensei Payne. Just like there are bad cops, doctors, priests/clergy and so on. We think these people should be morally trustworthy but sadly we find sometimes they're not. 
Thankfully they're caught however in the end.


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## grydth (Oct 28, 2007)

Pure speculation - there's no way to know - but I suspect a lot of this type criminal is never brought to justice. Of those that are, it may only be after a number of sprees over many years.

Still, one monstrous apple should not taint all.


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