# A.m.a. Elvis



## teej (May 1, 2005)

If someone signed an Ed Parker Kenpo certificate with their name followed by A.M.A., doesn't that stand for Associate Master of the Arts? And in our Kenpo, isn't the rank of A.M.A. an 8th degree blk blt?

Thanks, Teej


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## kenpoworks (May 1, 2005)

Teej,
You are right Associate Master of the Arts (AMA) is an 8th Degree in Ed Parker Kenpo.
Rich


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## Bill Lear (May 1, 2005)

kenpoworks said:
			
		

> Teej,
> You are right Associate Master of the Arts (AMA) is an 8th Degree in Ed Parker Kenpo.
> Rich


Yep. That's what I seem to remember.


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## teej (May 1, 2005)

Good, now that being established, there is an IKKA certificate for sale on Ebay for $1800. It was signed by Elvis for one of his Memphis Mafia friends. It was signed in 1974. Dave Hebler is listed as a 6th degree. Mr. Parker signed his name with M.A. after it. On the instructor line, Elvis signed it as the instructor and he signed his name as "Elvis Presley A.M.A."

Please educate me here. I have heard all the controversy over Elvis' black belt rank. The general opinion being Elvis was a good black belt. (again, opinion is up to individual interpretation and this is not the reason for this post. Elvis' rank has been discussed elsewhere, please do not take this thread there. thank you)

As when Mr. Parker passed away, it was know that he never promoted anyone above 7th degree, yet here is Elvis signing a certificate as A.M.A.? Was Elvis an 8th in another system and Mr. Parker honored it? If not, who promoted him to 8th?

There is a few days left on the Ebay auction so you can check it out. On Ebay, search the term Kenpo Elvis and it will come up as one of the auctions.

Thanks for your insight.
Teej


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## kenpoworks (May 1, 2005)

Sorry Teej....this way out if my territory.....good luck with your search.
Richy


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## Seabrook (May 2, 2005)

teej said:
			
		

> Good, now that being established, there is an IKKA certificate for sale on Ebay for $1800. It was signed by Elvis for one of his Memphis Mafia friends. It was signed in 1974. Dave Hebler is listed as a 6th degree. Mr. Parker signed his name with M.A. after it. On the instructor line, Elvis signed it as the instructor and he signed his name as "Elvis Presley A.M.A."
> 
> Please educate me here. I have heard all the controversy over Elvis' black belt rank. The general opinion being Elvis was a good black belt. (again, opinion is up to individual interpretation and this is not the reason for this post. Elvis' rank has been discussed elsewhere, please do not take this thread there. thank you)
> 
> ...


Elvis WAS promoted to 8th degree in Kenpo, although he was not at the skill level of those whom Ed Parker had promoted to 7th. He was promoted to that rank because he was Kenpo's ambassador - in the sense that he spread the word of Kenpo to so many people because of his fame. My parents are Elvis fanatics and I remember seeing the Parker patch on Elvis' guitar on several occasions, one of which was his Hawaii tour. 

Hope that helps.

Jamie Seabrook
www.seabrook.gotkenpo.com


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## teej (May 3, 2005)

"Elvis WAS promoted to 8th degree in Kenpo, although he was not at the skill level of those whom Ed Parker had promoted to 7th. He was promoted to that rank because he was Kenpo's ambassador - in the sense that he spread the word of Kenpo to so many people because of his fame. My parents are Elvis fanatics and I remember seeing the Parker patch on Elvis' guitar on several occasions, one of which was his Hawaii tour. " quote from Seabrook

I did read something different a little different than what Seabrook mentioned. Someone else posted that Elvis tested and was promoted to 6th and then an honorary 8th. I have never heard of an honorary advanced black belt ranks. I will try to look more closely at the Elvis and Mr. Parker pictures to see if I can make out the rank on Elvis' belt.

I wonder if anyone has seen any of Elvis' black belt certificates? I am sure they must have been auctioned off to someone. So I am back to the question, was Elvis promoted to 6th or 8th? If only 6th, how could he sign a certificate along with Mr. Parker and use A.M.A. after Elvis' name? If he was promoted to 8th, how come everyone claims Mr. Parker never promoted anyone past 7th degree? (these are meant to be historical questions, not controversial please)

Teej


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## Rick Wade (May 3, 2005)

actually a good guy to ask that was around would be Mr.Dave Hebler.  He was one of the Mephis Mafia and trained woth Elvis all the time.  He will tell you the rest of the story.

V/R

Rick English


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## Seabrook (May 3, 2005)

teej said:
			
		

> "Elvis WAS promoted to 8th degree in Kenpo, although he was not at the skill level of those whom Ed Parker had promoted to 7th. He was promoted to that rank because he was Kenpo's ambassador - in the sense that he spread the word of Kenpo to so many people because of his fame. My parents are Elvis fanatics and I remember seeing the Parker patch on Elvis' guitar on several occasions, one of which was his Hawaii tour. " quote from Seabrook
> 
> I did read something different a little different than what Seabrook mentioned. Someone else posted that Elvis tested and was promoted to 6th and then an honorary 8th. I have never heard of an honorary advanced black belt ranks. I will try to look more closely at the Elvis and Mr. Parker pictures to see if I can make out the rank on Elvis' belt.
> 
> ...


He was promoted to 8th degree, but it was honorary. 

About "honorary ranks" in general - most tend to be, especially above 5th degree. It may be a bit of a shock to you - but ranks above 3rd black in AK often get quite political. 


Jamie Seabrook 
www.seabrook.gotkenpo.com


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## Doc (May 4, 2005)

For the record, Elvis wasn't the only one given an 8th degree (large) certificate by Ed Parker Sr. and the official status of the document is NOT honorary, nor did Mr. Parker ever indicate that it was anything other than deserved and appropriate.

Although admittedly I was not there, my conversations with Parker were definitive on the subject, and were also confirmed to me by Dave Hebler who was there. For any of us for the sake of our own security to assign the status of "honorary" to a document that looks no different than the ones the rest of us of significant rank possess, is more than a tad presumptious.

If Parker never said it was "honorary," and he didn't, than we should accept it on face value. Besides that, what's the big deal? We should spend more time on our Kenpo, and let the dead rest in peace. We all know Parker promoted some people to some pretty significant rank who were, to put it mildly, awful. We can all make personal decisions on the quality of any individual granted rank, and may even arrive at a consensus, but questioning the intent of the person awarding the document should not be a part of the process - unless you want all diplomas under the subjective scruitiny of those you've never met or studied with.

Some have even stated and hoped my own 7th diploma is a "forgery" despite incontrovertible evidence to the contrary. What they think doesn't matter, and I'm sure Elvis could care less as well.


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## Seabrook (May 4, 2005)

Doc said:
			
		

> For the record, Elvis wasn't the only one given an 8th degree (large) certificate by Ed Parker Sr. and the official status of the document is NOT honorary, nor did Mr. Parker ever indicate that it was anything other than deserved and appropriate.


If you don't mind me asking Doc, who else received an 8th degree Kenpo promotion from Mr. Parker? 



[/QUOTE] We all know Parker promoted some people to some pretty significant rank who were, to put it mildly, awful. [/QUOTE]You don't have to put these names on a public forum but I would be interested in who you think these people were. 



[/QUOTE] Some have even stated and hoped my own 7th diploma is a "forgery" despite incontrovertible evidence to the contrary. What they think doesn't matter, and I'm sure Elvis could care less as well. [/QUOTE]If anyone deserves to hold the rank of 10th, you certainly do. But I don't think it's a big deal asking about the history of Kenpo as it relates to Elvis and his rank. 


Jamie Seabrook
www.seabrook.gotkenpo.com


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## BruceCalkins (May 4, 2005)

teej said:
			
		

> I wonder if anyone has seen any of Elvis' black belt certificates? I am sure they must have been auctioned off to someone. So I am back to the question, was Elvis promoted to 6th or 8th? If only 6th, how could he sign a certificate along with Mr. Parker and use A.M.A. after Elvis' name? If he was promoted to 8th, how come everyone claims Mr. Parker never promoted anyone past 7th degree? (these are meant to be historical questions, not controversial please)
> 
> Teej


All of Elvis's Belt certificates are hanging in a room at Neverland Ranch. Micheal Jackson has the rights to all Elvis Memorabielia. There were copies hanging in Graceland.. I don't know if they are still there. But his certificates and Belts hang in Neverland.


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## Rick Wade (May 4, 2005)

Doc said:
			
		

> For the record, Elvis wasn't the only one given an 8th degree (large) certificate by Ed Parker Sr. and the official status of the document is NOT honorary, nor did Mr. Parker ever indicate that it was anything other than deserved and appropriate.
> 
> Although admittedly I was not there, my conversations with Parker were definitive on the subject, and were also confirmed to me by Dave Hebler who was there. For any of us for the sake of our own security to assign the status of "honorary" to a document that looks no different than the ones the rest of us of significant rank possess, is more than a tad presumptious.
> 
> ...



Doc do you give a bachelors or associates degree in Kenpo at the University of Martial Science?


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## Rick Wade (May 4, 2005)

Doc said:
			
		

> For the record, Elvis wasn't the only one given an 8th degree (large) certificate by Ed Parker Sr. and the official status of the document is NOT honorary, nor did Mr. Parker ever indicate that it was anything other than deserved and appropriate.
> 
> Although admittedly I was not there, my conversations with Parker were definitive on the subject, and were also confirmed to me by Dave Hebler who was there. For any of us for the sake of our own security to assign the status of "honorary" to a document that looks no different than the ones the rest of us of significant rank possess, is more than a tad presumptious.
> 
> ...



Doc do you give a bachelors or associates degree in Kenpo at the University of Martial Science?


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## Ronin Moose (May 4, 2005)

*


			
				SokeCalkins said:
			
		


			All of Elvis's Belt certificates are hanging in a room at Neverland Ranch. Micheal Jackson has the rights to all Elvis Memorabielia. There were copies hanging in Graceland.. I don't know if they are still there. But his certificates and Belts hang in Neverland
		
Click to expand...

*


			
				SokeCalkins said:
			
		

> Talk about something to make you turn over in your grave!  God bless him.
> 
> -Garry


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## Rick Wade (May 4, 2005)

I recently toured graceland and there was no reference to Kenpo with the exception of the IKKA Gi that was in the back left of the house. The tour guides and the supposed expert there didn't even know who Ed Parker was.

V/R

Rick English


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## arnisador (May 4, 2005)

Doc said:
			
		

> For any of us for the sake of our own security to assign the status of "honorary" to a document that looks no different than the ones the rest of us of significant rank possess, is more than a tad presumptious.


 Makes sense. The document says what it says.



> I'm sure Elvis could care less as well.


  I'll ask him.


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## Doc (May 4, 2005)

Seabrook said:
			
		

> If you don't mind me asking Doc, who else received an 8th degree Kenpo promotion from Mr. Parker?


Kalihi Griffin for one, and there are others besides Elvis.


> "We all know Parker promoted some people to some pretty significant rank who were, to put it mildly, awful."
> 
> You don't have to put these names on a public forum but I would be interested in who you think these people were.


Although I may express such opinions from time to time, it would never be on a public forum for it is just My opinion. However I would not impose my opinion on people with whom I do not have a personal relationship, which would give me the opportunity to put things into proper context. That being said, there are "consensus" individuals many would agree upon. And yes, they were granted significant rank by Parker for various reasons.


> "Some have even stated and hoped my own 7th diploma is a "forgery" despite incontrovertible evidence to the contrary. What they think doesn't matter, and I'm sure Elvis could care less as well."
> 
> If anyone deserves to hold the rank of 10th, you certainly do.


I thank you for your opinion sir, however like anything else, there will always be dessenting views. I, nor my students in general wear stripes anyway.


> But I don't think it's a big deal asking about the history of Kenpo as it relates to Elvis and his rank.


I actually don't disagree with you sir, (about the "history questions), but rank is nebulous at best and terribly subjective and influenced by a myriad number of factors, that in the end, mean nothing toward the stated goals of the activity.

I personally have designated ALL numerical black belt ranks within my influence as "honorary" beyond the first acquisition including my own, post my teacher awarded 7th.

Having removed this "rank burden" my students are free to pursue the knowledge and are excluded from the ego associated with "stripe envy." Diplomas indicate what they should; that someone has passed a particular course with acceptable time input, skills, and knowledge required for the curriculum. Nothing more, or less.

This allows the credentials board to promote someone on the merits of their participation AND for service and time as deemed necessary, thus creating a "tenure" and "senior" status without affecting the quality of the instruction. The ascent to lofty ranks are not necessarily indicative of the ability to teach, or knowledge of the CURRENT curriculum. Just because someone has been around for a period of time is no insurance their information is correct and/or current with the requisite skills. Only CONTINUED EDUCATION can provide that. Continued education and specialized study curriculum will yield the desired positions, and the titles associated with substantial rank, and the coveted "teaching credentials" the majority of our students desire.

I only make the point about assuming someone's documents are honorary, because it is a slippery and somewhat arrogant slope. For some to essentially say, "My diploma is the real deal, but Elvis Presley's was honorary." is a bit disengenuious. Especially considering the individual making the award made no such designation, on either his (Elvis) or yours. Who is anyone to make that assumption without direct information from they that made the award? The one thing I can say definitively that Parker did say was, "Just because the red show, don't mean that you know." That would be a better topic of discussion. Who exactly was Parker talking about? His own students, that's who.


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## Bode (May 4, 2005)

Doc said:
			
		

> Just because someone has been around for a period of time is no insurance their information is correct and/or current with the requisite skills. Only CONTINUED EDUCATION can provide that.


 I must, as a student of Dr. Chapel's, say that I have never experience a learning environment quite like our class. 
   Ego's are completely absent. We all learn from each other, black belt or otherwise. 
 The knowledge is not the sum of an individual, but of the class. One students picks up something another missed and is envouraged to share. Be it white belt or black belt. 
 Dr Chapel's knowledge will live on in years and decades to come. Mainly because it's contained in a body of students, not one ego.


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## SION (May 5, 2005)

Bode said:
			
		

> I must, as a student of Dr. Chapel's, say that I have never experience a learning environment quite like our class.
> Ego's are completely absent. We all learn from each other, black belt or otherwise.
> The knowledge is not the sum of an individual, but of the class. One students picks up something another missed and is envouraged to share. Be it white belt or black belt.
> Dr Chapel's knowledge will live on in years and decades to come. Mainly because it's contained in a body of students, not one ego.


Here Here

C


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## Bill Lear (May 5, 2005)

I think the answer as to whether or not Elvis was in fact a legitimate Eighth Degree Black Belt is pretty simple if you look at it logically. He was, and Ed Parker promoted him.

This doesn't mean everyone has to like it. In the end there is only one person who knew why Elvis was promoted to Eighth Degree and that was Ed Parker himself. How can you get anymore legitimate than that? I mean... He was promoted to Eighth Degree in Ed Parker's organization by Ed Parker, right?

Now... whether Elvis could fight or not is a different story.




> *Interesting Quotes:*





> _"Although the colors show, they are no proof of what you know."_
> 
> _"What you earn, you get."_
> 
> ...


I really like that last one. It embodies the biggest part of the problem here. The only references we have in regard to the abilities of both of these gentlemen are in stories and in some cases videotape. Both of these things are fallible. I would venture to say that nobody besides the people who knew them will ever know what it was like to get hit by them.

It's time to put this to rest. It's time to stop fighting over the validity of others and concentrate on who and what we are. In other words... It's more constructive to validate those who came before us by making ourselves the best martial artists we can be. "We" are Ed Parker's legacy and "we" are the validity of today's American Kenpo.


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## Ronin Moose (May 5, 2005)

Bill Lear said:
			
		

> *It's time to put this to rest. It's time to stop fighting over the validity of others and concentrate on who and what we are. In other words... It's more constructive to validate those who came before us by making ourselves the best martial artists we can be. "We" are Ed Parker's legacy and "we" are the validity of today's American Kenpo.*
> 
> That has to be the best thing anyone has ever posted on this forum.  Thank you, Mr. Lear, for saying what needed to be said.  Salute.
> 
> -Garry


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