# Self defense teaching license



## Way_of_the_Crane (Jul 11, 2017)

Hello! As the tile mentions, is there such thing as a self defense teaching license, degree, or certification? I cannot find anything about one. 
I only ask because where I work (Flint, MI... not saying my city is more dangerous than anyone else's, but its certainly not close to being the best), I have a few co workers who have black belts in Japanese arts. I study Kung Fu and a couple arts that I do not practice regularly, so not ideal for someone that doesnt want to learn Kung Fu. But, one of the people previously mentioned said he has a few people in his department that would like a demonstration on self defense, not any particular art, just knowledge of what to do when yelling and running are not the only options, depending on the situation (as we know this is what is generally recommended). He asked that I help, or at least be the attacker in demonstrations. I know a friend can show a friend what they want (if its legal)... USA is the land of the free. But, I wanted to know if we were to give people advice and a free demonstration at work (our work is ok with this), are we actually allowed to? Do we need additional training or a license to do this? 
He is far more advanced than me with 20+ years in various forms of Karate and in Hakkoryu Jujutsu. He is capable of answering probably all of or fellow co-workers questions and is more than willing to instruct with his Sensei's permission. 
He does not know I'm asking this, I just want to know personally.


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## Bill Mattocks (Jul 11, 2017)

No licenses required. From a logistical point of view, our dojo has a hold harmless liability waiver all students must sign. We're near you, just to the south.

A teaching certificate in some styles is called a menkyo. Not a legality, anyone can teach if they want. Many do, many probably shouldnt.

From a casual training kind of thing, you might want to check your liability insurance. Don't want to get sued and lose your house if someone claims you hurt them.


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## JowGaWolf (Jul 11, 2017)

Bill Mattocks said:


> From a casual training kind of thing, you might want to check your liability insurance. Don't want to get sued and lose your house if someone claims you hurt them.


Yeah that's about the only piece of paper that matters.  If someone wanted me to do a demonstration I wouldn't let them participate in any scenario where any significant force has to be done.   For example, the "What if someone grabs you behind" scenario.  Walk through various techniques of what a person can do is fine but I wouldn't let someone actually grab me with the purpose of trying to actually hold on to me with force.

The strange about martial arts is that with some techniques, the more force your attacker puts into the attack, the more damage the technique causes. This can be a big safety issue if the person doing the demo is really skilled.


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## Way_of_the_Crane (Jul 12, 2017)

Gotcha. Thanks guys. This was helpful, I would have thought my work place would have said something about the insurance factor. Perhaps they're prepared to have people sign something. There has been demonstrations here in the past, but the attendees were not satisfied. One I remember, I did not attend, was Krav Maga. I think he was nervous or not trained to show/answer questions. But we'll see how my friend and I do, and I'm sure that it will help that I work with these people, although its a very large workplace.


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## lklawson (Jul 12, 2017)

Way_of_the_Crane said:


> Hello! As the tile mentions, is there such thing as a self defense teaching license, degree, or certification? I cannot find anything about one.


For now there are no government issued martial arts certifications.  However, many martial arts offer certifications.  You can also join non-art specific organizations and "earn" certifications from them.  Some of them may be OK, some of them definitely aren't.



> I only ask because where I work (Flint, MI... not saying my city is more dangerous than anyone else's, but its certainly not close to being the best),


I spent my High School years in Flint.  I went to HS on the wrong side of Dort hwy., back when there was a wrong side.  Flint was dangerous then, it's worse now.  There is no longer a "wrong" side of Dort.  I started my martial arts career there in Tang Soo Do Mu Duk Kwan back before they lost their suit and had to change their name.  I studied under Merle E. DeMott and tested under Steve Wall.  Mr. DeMott passed away some years ago and Master Wall, ims, moved on to greener pastures.  I think I still have the original bronze lapel pin.  It's probably a collector's item now.  



> I have a few co workers who have black belts in Japanese arts. I study Kung Fu and a couple arts that I do not practice regularly, so not ideal for someone that doesnt want to learn Kung Fu. But, one of the people previously mentioned said he has a few people in his department that would like a demonstration on self defense, not any particular art, just knowledge of what to do when yelling and running are not the only options, depending on the situation (as we know this is what is generally recommended). He asked that I help, or at least be the attacker in demonstrations. I know a friend can show a friend what they want (if its legal)... USA is the land of the free. But, I wanted to know if we were to give people advice and a free demonstration at work (our work is ok with this), are we actually allowed to? Do we need additional training or a license to do this?
> He is far more advanced than me with 20+ years in various forms of Karate and in Hakkoryu Jujutsu. He is capable of answering probably all of or fellow co-workers questions and is more than willing to instruct with his Sensei's permission.
> He does not know I'm asking this, I just want to know personally.


It may be OK with your work and your instructors but make sure your work double checks with their Insurer.  You want to be covered in case of an owie or if someone gets stupid.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## jks9199 (Jul 12, 2017)

In the US, there's no one "license" to teach self defense.  Individual programs may have their own licensing/certificates, and there are often state certifications to teach in a LE academy setting.  For example, RAD certifies their instructors and aggressors.  So does Krav Maga World Wide for their Force Protection program.  And too many others for me to continue to list -- because if an organization "certifies" its instructors, it can charge $$ for the certification.  And more $$$$ for renewals/recertifications...  Or, for another example... I'm a Virginia Department of Criminal Justice Services certified instructor in 3 areas: General Instructor, Firearms, and Control Tactics.  I'm also a Taser Instructor.  Each requires periodic recertification, documented instruction hours, and more...

I was a little cynical in comment about money -- but there's actually a valid reason for certifying and recertifying someone in teaching YOUR (whoever you may be) material.  Your organization's name is on it; you want to be sure that people teaching are teaching it properly and the way you intend it to be taught.  You also want to be sure that they stay up to date on changes or new technology.  For example, about a year or so ago -- there was a ruling in the 4th Circuit regarding the Taser, which limited its use with non-criminal, non-aggressive subjects.  And Taser changes their technology periodically...  so the recert classes keep you up to date on those details.


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## Way_of_the_Crane (Jul 12, 2017)

Ive often thought about why my particular art charges yearly fees, and you literally just put it into perspective. May I ask what a control tactics license is? You might know, Im sure the world of google can tell me, I think it depends on the state (Michigan), but the laws on key chain pepper spray.


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## Jenna (Jul 13, 2017)

Way_of_the_Crane said:


> Hello! As the tile mentions, is there such thing as a self defense teaching license, degree, or certification? I cannot find anything about one.
> I only ask because where I work (Flint, MI... not saying my city is more dangerous than anyone else's, but its certainly not close to being the best), I have a few co workers who have black belts in Japanese arts. I study Kung Fu and a couple arts that I do not practice regularly, so not ideal for someone that doesnt want to learn Kung Fu. But, one of the people previously mentioned said he has a few people in his department that would like a demonstration on self defense, not any particular art, just knowledge of what to do when yelling and running are not the only options, depending on the situation (as we know this is what is generally recommended). He asked that I help, or at least be the attacker in demonstrations. I know a friend can show a friend what they want (if its legal)... USA is the land of the free. But, I wanted to know if we were to give people advice and a free demonstration at work (our work is ok with this), are we actually allowed to? Do we need additional training or a license to do this?
> He is far more advanced than me with 20+ years in various forms of Karate and in Hakkoryu Jujutsu. He is capable of answering probably all of or fellow co-workers questions and is more than willing to instruct with his Sensei's permission.
> He does not know I'm asking this, I just want to know personally.


Would you feel nervous about giving these demonstrations? Do you teach regularly at the moment?

Wishes to you


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## Paul_D (Jul 13, 2017)

Way_of_the_Crane said:


> He is far more advanced than me with 20+ years in various forms of Karate and in Hakkoryu Jujutsu. He is capable of answering probably all of or fellow co-workers


His 20+ years of karate may make him knowledgeable about the hard skills (Physical) but that is no guarantee he knows anything about the soft (non physical) skills pertaining to SD, which are arguably more important as they can prevent a most, is not all, situations ever getting to the point where hard skills become necessary.

By the sound of it these demonstrations will consist entirely of hard skills, and won’t cover soft skills at all, is that right?


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## oftheherd1 (Jul 13, 2017)

jks9199 said:


> In the US, there's no one "license" to teach self defense.  Individual programs may have their own licensing/certificates, and there are often state certifications to teach in a LE academy setting.  For example, RAD certifies their instructors and aggressors.  So does Krav Maga World Wide for their Force Protection program.  And too many others for me to continue to list -- because if an organization "certifies" its instructors, it can charge $$ for the certification.  And more $$$$ for renewals/recertifications...  Or, for another example... I'm a Virginia Department of Criminal Justice Services certified instructor in 3 areas: General Instructor, Firearms, and Control Tactics.  I'm also a Taser Instructor.  Each requires periodic recertification, documented instruction hours, and more...
> 
> I was a little cynical in comment about money -- but there's actually a valid reason for certifying and recertifying someone in teaching YOUR (whoever you may be) material.  Your organization's name is on it; you want to be sure that people teaching are teaching it properly and the way you intend it to be taught.  You also want to be sure that they stay up to date on changes or new technology.  For example, about a year or so ago -- there was a ruling in the 4th Circuit regarding the Taser, which limited its use with non-criminal, non-aggressive subjects.  And Taser changes their technology periodically...  so the recert classes keep you up to date on those details.



I think licensing also helps protect an instructor to a degree, and certainly a school/business, if there is any litigation due to injury or other problems.  I am personally sort of nonplussed by the idea.  It wasn't how I started out in martial arts.  When we were good enough ourselves as determined by our teacher, we were expected to teach newer/lower belts.  That was under the watchful eye of the teacher who had an amazing ability to see everything that happened by those who taught, and could correct if needed.  I think a better idea (as mentioned elsewhere) is to have students sign a form that totally indemnifies the business and any instructors or other students.


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## Midnight-shadow (Jul 13, 2017)

We have a similar situation in the UK. Here all you really need is professional liability insurance and a DBS (child safeguarding) certificate if you are working with children. There isn't even a government recognised independent organisation that covers Martial Arts, like you have with most other sports. For example, to teach swimming in the UK I need to be licenced by "Swim England" which is the nationally recognised body for aquatic sports in the UK. As far as I'm aware there is nothing like that for Martial Arts.


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## jks9199 (Jul 13, 2017)

Way_of_the_Crane said:


> Ive often thought about why my particular art charges yearly fees, and you literally just put it into perspective. May I ask what a control tactics license is? You might know, Im sure the world of google can tell me, I think it depends on the state (Michigan), but the laws on key chain pepper spray.


Control Tactics is the current term for Defensive Tactics -- it's primarily focused on effective, legal, and appropriate use of force to detain, control, and arrest a subject, using everything but firearms (because firearms is separate certification).  It also includes things like how to search someone, dealing with a variety of other issues related to officer survival.


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## jks9199 (Jul 13, 2017)

Paul_D said:


> His 20+ years of karate may make him knowledgeable about the hard skills (Physical) but that is no guarantee he knows anything about the soft (non physical) skills pertaining to SD, which are arguably more important as they can prevent a most, is not all, situations ever getting to the point where hard skills become necessary.
> 
> By the sound of it these demonstrations will consist entirely of hard skills, and won’t cover soft skills at all, is that right?


Or the legal issues... which are kind of important, too.  Unless the employees want a stay at the Gray Bar Hotel...


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## Way_of_the_Crane (Jul 13, 2017)

Jenna said:


> Would you feel nervous about giving these demonstrations? Do you teach regularly at the moment?
> 
> Wishes to you


I am actually excited to take part in this. I do teach on my off time, 2 dedicated students. But, I am not Sifu... The role is Sihing. Right now just the basics in Wing Chun, and with permission to only show/teach what I have completed in the art. One day I wish to teach full time.


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## Way_of_the_Crane (Jul 13, 2017)

Paul_D said:


> His 20+ years of karate may make him knowledgeable about the hard skills (Physical) but that is no guarantee he knows anything about the soft (non physical) skills pertaining to SD, which are arguably more important as they can prevent a most, is not all, situations ever getting to the point where hard skills become necessary.
> 
> By the sound of it these demonstrations will consist entirely of hard skills, and won’t cover soft skills at all, is that right?



We both have belts in Hakkoryu Jujitsu, which is primary what he/we would show... like escapes. This is a very soft and delicate art. If someone had some questions with internal or soft applications, my Wing Chun approach may help. Im not one to fight fire with fire, and theres nothing wrong if someone feels otherwise.  They know we are not professionals, they are taking this at their own will. And I know they will walk away with more knowledge.


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## the8th_light (Jul 14, 2017)

Hi from Devon!

My advice is to settle with what your sifu/sensei about some of her/his wishes, and more importantly, just don't do stuff on your own.

Are you a current Hakkoryu student?

I am, and happy to help.

Devon


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Jul 14, 2017)

Way_of_the_Crane said:


> We both have belts in Hakkoryu Jujitsu, which is primary what he/we would show... like escapes. This is a very soft and delicate art. If someone had some questions with internal or soft applications, my Wing Chun approach may help. Im not one to fight fire with fire, and theres nothing wrong if someone feels otherwise.  They know we are not professionals, they are taking this at their own will. And I know they will walk away with more knowledge.


Hard vs. soft in this case doesn't mean a hard vs soft style.

A hard skill would be any violent or physical reaction you are taking to defend yourself.

 A soft skill is, essentially, everything leading up to that physical response. Awareness, so you don't end up in a situation where you need to use other SD skills, preparedness (not travelling alone/with one other person, knowing what areas you can't go alone at night, etc.), de-escalation when you are in a confrontation so it does not become physical, humility in a sense so you are okay looking 'soft' in front of friends (ie: giving a mugger your wallet) in order to avoid that physical confrontation, the OODA loop, etc.

And the legal knowledge is not either of those, but you should have a basic understanding of self-defense laws in your area, as that is important for people you are teaching to know.


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## Paul_D (Jul 14, 2017)

Way_of_the_Crane said:


> We both have belts in Hakkoryu Jujitsu, which is primary what he/we would show... like escapes. This is a very soft and delicate art. If someone had some questions with internal or soft applications, my Wing Chun approach may help. Im not one to fight fire with fire, and theres nothing wrong if someone feels otherwise.  They know we are not professionals, they are taking this at their own will. And I know they will walk away with more knowledge.


By soft skills I mean non physical skills, i.e verbal de-escalation, Threat Awareness & Evaluation (Coopers Colour Codes/OODA Loop), etc...


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## Way_of_the_Crane (Jul 17, 2017)

the8th_light said:


> Hi from Devon!
> 
> My advice is to settle with what your sifu/sensei about some of her/his wishes, and more importantly, just don't do stuff on your own.
> 
> ...



Devon, I think you know our Shihan, Garner Train. I recognize your name, and the 8th light rings a bell. If Im right, you also instruct, right? At the moment he has more people interested in WC, so we are doing that. But I wish to also further my Hakkoryu knowledge. If you do know him, or dont, he was a police officer then a lawyer. He knows the law and makes sure we do. If you are who I think you are, nice to
 finally talk to you.


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## Matt Bryers (Aug 17, 2017)

Way_of_the_Crane said:


> Hello! As the tile mentions, is there such thing as a self defense teaching license, degree, or certification? I cannot find anything about one.



IMO - Licenses, certificates, etc are for business or profession.  They are your resume.  It's like going to college.  Does that mean you know more than the dude who's spent 20 years training because that's what he loves to do.  Absolutely not.  But, it does mean that you are trying to be a "Professional Martial Artist".  I don't see anything wrong with that.

The downfall to licensing / certification is that some will try to hide behind it to make sure they seem like an expert.  That is BS.  A true martial artist, whether a professional or passion, is always trying to improve and learn.  Don't BS what you know, or your experience.  If you're future is teaching martial arts as a profession, I believe certification can help that path from a BUSINESS standpoint.  

Beyond that, it's just a piece of paper, and that paper isn't going to save your *** when you need it.  Only experience and willingness to survive can help you then.

Oss.

Matt

FYI - we offer licensing for our TRITAC Martial Arts.  But there is a long process to achieve certification, and is only for qualified instructors who are on the path of a Pro Martial Art.


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