# Etiquette



## Mr.karate (Apr 3, 2003)

Just wondering what people think of etiquette and it's importance in the martial arts? How do your dojo's show etiquette and what is it's importance?

Justin


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## yilisifu (Apr 3, 2003)

It is the first thing I teach a student.  If he can't (or won't) follow the proper rules of etiquette, he cannot learn from me.  One of my teachers (in the old days) told me, "Only one who has developed real (spiritual) strength can be truly courteous."


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## tshadowchaser (Apr 3, 2003)

I  ask the students at our school to show respect to all who train in the arts. 
 They must bow when entering or leaveing the school. They must bow after receaving instruction from anyone and after giveing instructions.
  There are other etiquette  related things in our school but these are the first that are taught.
 It is my schol and if the student will not agree to these simple terms they can go somewhere else.
tshadowchaser:asian:


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## vin2k0 (Apr 3, 2003)

> _Originally posted by yilisifu _
> *It is the first thing I teach a student.  If he can't (or won't) follow the proper rules of etiquette, he cannot learn from me.  One of my teachers (in the old days) told me, "Only one who has developed real (spiritual) strength can be truly courteous." *



Your old teacher sounds about right. Spot on i would say. However in many dojo's i think the etiquette is falling by the waistside and not focused upon enough.


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## yilisifu (Apr 3, 2003)

True in the training hall, true in our society.  Proper manners and courtesy are, in my opinion, essential parts of martial arts development.

   Many a conflict has been avoided through the use of these things.


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## Mr.karate (Apr 4, 2003)

Thankyou everyone! This is the stuff that I think most serious martial artists belive in and what I would likre to no now is what does etiquette truly mean and what is it's true importance to each of you?


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## Chicago Green Dragon (Apr 4, 2003)

Eitquette is very important.

I have always been taught that it reflects upon you and your teacher. The way you act whether its in the studio/dojo/gym or what ever you call your training hall or out in public.
How you act reflects on how your teach has taught you.

I have always been taught to respect other peoples arts they practice or believe in. When asked what is the best martial art? 
I always reply they are all the best. But the one I have chosen was best for me at this time.
I have studied a few different styles and they are all great. 

I have respect for peoples art they choose to practice.


:soapbox: 

Chicago Green
Dragon   :asian:


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## chufeng (Apr 4, 2003)

[quote...I have always been taught ...[/quote]

ChiGrnDrgn,

Your language implies you have not completely assimilated the teaching...

I applaud your adherance to a set of standards...now you need to weave them into your very being...then you will say:
"It IS important...BECAUSE...and WHY I believe this..." it is a start to say: "Sifu says this is the way I must behave...Sensei thinks this...Mom & Dad said such and so."
But at some point you must either accept or reject those ideas...
If you accept them, you must undersatnd the underlying WHY ...
If you reject them, be prepared to defend your stand with INTROSPECTION.

It seems you have had good instruction to this point...
Trust your Sifu...and meditate on the underlying CAUSE of the "rules"...

:asian:
chufeng


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## Chicago Green Dragon (Apr 4, 2003)

I was simply refering to how I was taught.

Now, as to how I feel and act.

I do believe that you should respect what people practice as their art they have choosen.


Chicago Green
Dragon   :asian:


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## Mr.karate (Apr 4, 2003)

Thankyou chufeng that is what I'm really looking for from people.


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## Deaf (Apr 11, 2003)

Just to throw a bone on this thread a bit.  What are your thoughts when it comes to that bowing may interfere with a person's religious beliefs therefore they WILL NOT bow.

Personally I think they are a bit extreme on the issue since bowing doesn't have any religious significance within the dojo just a matter of courtesy and respect HOWEVER I do respect their decision.  

What are your thoughts on this area?  Do you allow them to continually to train?  

Our dojo allows it however at the begining and ending of the class, if the student does not bow then he/she has to stand in the back of the class off the tatami.  And when training with uke, instead of bowing he/she MUST shake the uke's hand.  I believe this adequately teaches and focuses on etiquette and show of respect.

~Deaf~


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## chufeng (Apr 11, 2003)

Tough question...

Having never been faced with that, I had to think about it a bit.

I think I would explain the courtesy side...
I would explain the part about humbling oneself and becoming an empty vessel so that their is plenty of room for learning...
I would explain that showing respect to past masters is no different than remembering a loved one when you visit their grave...

If he/she still refused...I'd ask them to seek instruction somewhere else.

:asian:
chufeng


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## tshadowchaser (Apr 11, 2003)

Etiquette  as practiced in a school of Martial arts relates to how we treat each other and how we show thanks for our instructon, place of learning, etc.  I  belive that as in life we are told we are expected to do certian things (bow, shake hands hold a chair for a lady).  As we grow we do these things as a habit, but somewhere along the way we do them with a diffrent feeling and we see these acts as a reflection of our confidence in ourslefs and our relationship with everyone we come in contact with.
  If  we learn to be respectful through the martial arts we will be respectful outside the schools.  If we only bow because we are told to then we have learned little and will most likely be supperficial outside the school also.  
 IMHO
tshadowchaser  :asian:


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## yilisifu (Apr 11, 2003)

I've run into this problem in the past.  Bowing and worship are two different things and I have explained that although it is still a common courtesy in Asia, it was once a courtesy practiced in the Occident as well.

   If the student still refused to bow, I advised him to go somewhere else.


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