# Tnag Soo Do/Tae Kwon Do



## Manny (Jun 15, 2010)

When I was a teen (back in 1983) my TKD sambunim told me TKD evolved from Soo Back Do and Tang Soo Do, in fact in those days I was told Tang Soo Do was the ancient Tae Kwon Do.

I've never tried Tang Soo Do and I am a little curius, how alike are TSD and TKD? How diferent are TSD and TKD? both MA are korean and maybe I am wrong but are they almost the same?

Manny


----------



## DMcHenry (Jun 15, 2010)

It can really depend on the school.  Back when I started TKD then a year later TSD, they were virtually identical, except that the TKD dojang did both the Pyung-ahn and Palgwe form sets.  

Yes basically, TSD (and Kong Soo Do) evolved and changed names to TKD.  New form sets were created (Chang-hon, Palwge/Taegeuk and related yudanja forms) and in the case of Kukki TKD/WFT became very sport oriented.  

Most schools that still use TSD will be the old style, classical TKD before all the changes.  Even TSD evolved in the MooDukKwan and now has a much more Chinese flavor with new form sets and is known as Soo Bahk Do, but still retain the older Pyung-ahn (and yudanja) forms.

There are a few styalistic differences, and just like in TKD different schools may focus on different things or add weapons, grappling, HKD type techniques etc.

Not sure how much this helps, but if you like a much less sport driven style of TKD, check out TSD.


----------



## SahBumNimRush (Jun 15, 2010)

Like McHenry stated, it really depends on the school/association.  I practice Moo Duk Kwan TSD, but my Kwan Jang Nim left Korea before all the additions of the Chinese flavor of today's Moo Duk Kwan Soo Bahk Do.  We practice the old Shotokan hyungs with Korean flavor.  Pyung Ahns, Naihanchi, Bassai, Chinto, Kang Song Koon are the form sets.  We wear the cross wrap dobahks, not the V-necks.  

A good martial art focused (rather than sport focused) TKD school looks very similar a martial art focused TSD school other than the dobahks and form sets, IMO.  

The closer the association with H.C. Hwang a TSD school is, the more Chinese influence they are likely to have.  Much of the Chinese form sets were not integrated until much later (I've heard as late as the 1980's).  

Kong Soo Do ("the way of the open hand") and Tang Soo Do ("the way of the Chinese Tang hand") are both translations of the word Karate Do.  The majority of all of the original schools in Korea were heavily based in either Shotokan or Shudokan Karate.  The change of the name to TKD and the creation of new form sets and dobahks were attempts to distance themselves from the Japanese, who once occupied their country.  

The basic techniques themselves, at that time, were still identical.  The forms are a different subject, however.  The newer form sets were created with no thought of boon hae (bunkai), so if applications are of interest, the older Shotokan forms are of more importance, IMHO.  As time went on, things did change, due to the focus of the art.  So if you find an instructor lineage that focused on the old TKD or the old TSD, you'll find they are nearly identical in techniques.


----------



## Manny (Jun 16, 2010)

Thank you all, as I figured out TKD is directed relationed of the TSD, so we can say one is the evolution of the other.

As I understand TKD came from TSD and the koreans wanted to make a MA of their own so they modified (in the begining) what they had to erase chinese and japanese influence, modify the poomsae and kicking techs. TKD has it's roots in TSD, while TSD has chinese/japanese characteristics, TSD evolved in something more korean.

I will love to see an advance class of TSD to make my own conclusions, I think we (TKD) share so many things with you (TSD).

Manny


----------



## tbma_mark (Jul 4, 2010)

I too have studied TKD and later TSD.  Like others have said, it depends on the TKD school.  Some TKD schools center so much on sparring that they loose the self defense aspect of martial arts.  The TKD school I studied at referred to it's self as "Traditional" Chung Do Kwon, Tae Kwan Do.  We did all the self defense, one-steps, wrist locks, take downs, throws, sparring that we do in TSD.  The real difference in the schools I've studied at is we did the Taeguek forms in TKD and the Phyung ahns in TSD.  Really, everything else is the same.  Except I did get different versions of the history of the arts.


----------



## Makalakumu (Jul 4, 2010)

I cover the roots of TSD and how it relates to TKD and Shotokan in my book.  This subject used to be very controversial in the TSD world as many of the old TSD masters attempted to deny any Japanese connection.  They concocted all kinds of circuitous explanations as to why the forms resembed Shotokan forms.  However, when one looks at what was actually admitted and other documented evidence, there can be no doubt.  Hwang Kee initially learned karate from books.  Then, he sought out a teacher, Won Kuk Lee, who taught the Shotokan he learned from Funakoshi Sensei in Japan.


----------

