# questions about competitions in Kenpo



## jujutsu_indonesia (Mar 2, 2006)

Hello, I am from Indonesia, and there are absolutely no American Kenpo dojos here, thus I have zero knowledge about American Kenpo.

I know only Shorinji Kempo, Shinto Tenshin Ko-ryu Kenpo and Nihon Kenpo (M. Sawayama) but not yet witnessed American Kenpo. (Well I have seen videos of Kosho-ryu but not the competition video just a demo video).

With that being said, I'd like to know about the competitions in Kenpo. Do you use WKF karate rules when competing in sparring? Do you have self-defense paired kata competitions just lke JJIF Jujutsu duo system? Do you have grappling competitions? Does your standup karate sparring format also allows judo throws? If this matter has been discussed before, could anyone please direct me to the appropriate thread? Thank you!


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## Zoran (Mar 2, 2006)

Generally speaking, Kenpo is not really a competative sport. So the sparring that most schools do, are just training tools to improve timing and etc.

However, many schools do compete. Usually in the Karate tournaments. There are really not that many Kenpo tournaments around. Those that have had experience in those can give you some insight.


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## Blindside (Mar 2, 2006)

For competition it just depends on the tournament and what the promoter feels like offering.  

For sparring the most common is probably straight point fighting, no takedowns, it is "kenpo" usually because groin is usually a target, at least in the western US (at my last tournament I fought a kenpo guy from florida, and I must have popped him 4 times in the groin, he wasn't used to having that target open).

Other variations that I have seen:
Continuous light contact, no takedowns.

Continuous light contact, takedowns allowed (and points awarded for), no ground fighting.

Light contact sport jujitsu - Stand up striking, takedowns for points, limited time on the ground for submission.  I noticed that the Kajukenbo guys are using this ruleset for their competition, and it makes total sense given their skill sets.

I have never seen a kenpo "grappling" division, probably because we would generally suck at it. 

I have no idea what USJJF paired kata is, but usually kenpo forms are done solo.  There is a self-defense division that is essentially demonstration of self-defense techniques against single or multiple opponents.

Hope that helps,

Lamont


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## Doc (Mar 2, 2006)

jujutsu_indonesia said:
			
		

> Hello, I am from Indonesia, and there are absolutely no American Kenpo dojos here, thus I have zero knowledge about American Kenpo.
> 
> I know only Shorinji Kempo, Shinto Tenshin Ko-ryu Kenpo and Nihon Kenpo (M. Sawayama) but not yet witnessed American Kenpo. (Well I have seen videos of Kosho-ryu but not the competition video just a demo video).
> 
> With that being said, I'd like to know about the competitions in Kenpo. Do you use WKF karate rules when competing in sparring? Do you have self-defense paired kata competitions just lke JJIF Jujutsu duo system? Do you have grappling competitions? Does your standup karate sparring format also allows judo throws? If this matter has been discussed before, could anyone please direct me to the appropriate thread? Thank you!


Although some may choose to engage in competition, most Kenpo interpretations originating in this country are street self defense based, and therefore are not readily suitable for sport applications. However all styles regardless of origin, will always be dictated to by the rules governing whatever competition they choose to participate in. This is why in most competitions, the use of techniques applications are virtually identical between various style. The rules dictate, not the style.


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## jujutsu_indonesia (Mar 4, 2006)

Blindside said:
			
		

> For competition it just depends on the tournament and what the promoter feels like offering.
> 
> I have no idea what USJJF paired kata is, but usually kenpo forms are done solo. There is a self-defense division that is essentially demonstration of self-defense techniques against single or multiple opponents.
> 
> ...


 
Thank you sir for the info. Could you please tell me the rules of this self-defense division?


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## jujutsu_indonesia (Mar 4, 2006)

I also agree that any kenpo jujutsu arts should be used for self-defense only, that is why I am very interested with the rules people make to make these arts a combative sport. I have seen JJIF rules, and I think it's simply a mix of Judo and karate rules. Which is fun, in a way 

Thank you all for the info :asian:


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## jujutsu_indonesia (Mar 12, 2006)

Blindside said:
			
		

> For competition it just depends on the tournament and what the promoter feels like offering.
> 
> Continuous light contact, takedowns allowed (and points awarded for), no ground fighting.
> 
> ...


 
Mr. Lamont, or anybody else, could you please tell me the scoring system in both above-mentioned sparring modes? How many points for punch, kicks, throws, what are the fouls, what kind of throws allowed, etc? Thank you in advance.

We are trying to set up similar sparring modes here in sunny Indones


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## MJS (Mar 12, 2006)

jujutsu_indonesia said:
			
		

> Mr. Lamont, or anybody else, could you please tell me the scoring system in both above-mentioned sparring modes? How many points for punch, kicks, throws, what are the fouls, what kind of throws allowed, etc? Thank you in advance.
> 
> We are trying to set up similar sparring modes here in sunny Indones


 
I've seen events use 1 point for a punch and 2 for a kick.  Kicks to the front of the body and the side, nothing to the back or below the belt.  Fouls usually called for excessive contact, and repeatedly stepping out of the ring.  Depending on the event, there could be no punching to the face but kicks would be allowed.  

Depending on the tournament, the rules will differ.


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## Blindside (Mar 12, 2006)

The rules at a recent Kenpo tournament (at the Anaheim Disney Martial Arts Festival) was one point for head, body, groin, and no matter the weapon used.  This is my preference for rules, but the circuit I'm on usually does 1 point hands, 2 point kicks above the waist, 1 point for any groin shot.

Lamont


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## jujutsu_indonesia (Mar 13, 2006)

Thank you for the info kind sirs. And how much point will a takedown get? In the Wado-rules we do in Indonesia, only foot sweeps are allowed, and it will get 3 points only if we follow up with a reverse punch immediately after the opponent hit the canvas.


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## Blindside (Mar 13, 2006)

At most point tournaments, the takedown doesn't give you any points, but you can score with a hand technique immediately after the takedown.  

A rule set that I like, but leads to some hard hitting even in the "point" category is the sport jujitsu rules:

http://www.sportjujitsu.com/rulesA.html

Makes for a nice combination of standing and groundwork, and exciting fights.

Lamont


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## jujutsu_indonesia (Mar 15, 2006)

Blindside said:
			
		

> At most point tournaments, the takedown doesn't give you any points, but you can score with a hand technique immediately after the takedown.


 
thank you sir. I see that the kenpo rules and wado rules is almost the same, the takedown itself won't bring any points but if we strike immediately to the fallen opponent, it will give a score. now I understand. thank you again.


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## DutchKenpo (Mar 15, 2006)

Hello, 

Why don't you go to this site. www.ikc2006.nl when you go to competion and scroll down you can find the rule book for this event.
Wile your at it, you can find a load of info about kenpo and championships in general at that site but also on www.kenpokarate.nl .

I hope I was of some service.
Check it out and let me know.

grtz, Bob Hessel


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## jujutsu_indonesia (Mar 19, 2006)

DutchKenpo said:
			
		

> Hello,
> 
> Why don't you go to this site. www.ikc2006.nl when you go to competion and scroll down you can find the rule book for this event.
> Wile your at it, you can find a load of info about kenpo and championships in general at that site but also on www.kenpokarate.nl .
> ...


 
dank je, meneer Hessel, hoe gaat het?  

I am happy to see the art of Mr. Parker has spread to other countries!

groetjes, Denny


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## DutchKenpo (Mar 23, 2006)

Hello Denny,

It's nice to see there are other dutch speaking people on this forum, where are you from?
What did you think of the link to the rules?

grtz, Bob Hessel


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## jujutsu_indonesia (Mar 25, 2006)

Hello! I am from Jakarta, Indonesia. Too bad, my hollandsprekken is not very good, I mostly learned it by interacting with one of my teacher, Mr. Sungkar, who studied Judo in Amsterdam under Willem Ruska and John Phillips, also studied some Jujutsu under F. Haesendonck in Belgium.

I think the rules are very good and fair, too bad takedowns are not allowed. If Osotogari and Koshinage is allowed, it will make the competition more fun to watch, for example, there will be a decrease of clinching because athletes will be afraid of getting thrown   No clinching = fighting more exciting


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