# if bjj is truely effective for self defence then i want to hear it from a black belt



## eggg1994 (Dec 17, 2010)

hey i want to know if bjj is truely effective for self defence and i want to hear it from a bjj black belts point of view because i am just losing hope of learning effective self defence and not some of that retarded ufc stuff that people always complain about bjj not being so good for self defence and i need proof and i want to hear yalls expirence from bjj.


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## Steve (Dec 17, 2010)

If you're looking for something from a BJJ black belt, you should probably talk to one, then.  I'm a purple belt, experienced enough to know some stuff.  If you have some specific questions that I can answer, I'll give it my best shot.


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## Tanaka (Dec 17, 2010)

[yt]ckl8-Rqk-QQ[/yt]

This video is a demonstration of self defense and sport variation of Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. 

Done by Royler Gracie and Rickson Gracie.
As far as it being effective self defense. From what I have seen in the video... not really my cup of tea. But it might be for someone else.


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## Flying Crane (Dec 17, 2010)

Hey Egg,

It's not quite as simple as that.  It really depends on a lot of things.

First, yes, BJJ can be very effective for self defense, just as every other system can be effective for self defense.

But there are a lot of issues that go into it.  First, is the teacher good at teaching, and is he teaching you to keep self-defense in mind as you learn and as you train?  If the instructor likes competition, and if he is training you to be a competitor, and he doesn't address the differences between competition and self defense, then you may not be learning in a way that will enable you to use it as successfully in self defense.

Also, a lot of it is up to you.  Not every system is a good match for every person.  Nobody can tell you if BJJ is the right match for you.  You need to decide that for yourself.  If it feels "right" to you, if you find that you can use the techniques, if you enjoy the type of training, then it sounds like it's right for you.  If so, if you keep training and develop your skills with the techniques that you learn, if you train with self defense as the reason for training, then you will be able to use it for self defense.

But without these issues given proper consideration, there is no guarantee that BJJ or ANY system will magically "work" for self defense.  Every system has the potential to work well for self defense.  If you have the right teacher, if the system is a good match for you, and if you train appropriately, then yes it will be good for self defense.

But it's still up to you to do it.  It will not happen by itself, it is not magic.

Does that make sense to you?


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## Touch Of Death (Dec 17, 2010)

It has its drawbacks. You won't be fighting off multiple attackers, but its just great against one guy.
Sean


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## Nomad (Dec 17, 2010)

Pick a fight with a BJJ black belt, then let us know how it goes... 

Many different systems of combat or martial training can be very effective at self defense.  One of the keys in this is understanding their limitations and where the holes are.  

There is no "perfect" martial art for self-defense; each trains for different scenarios or encounters, and each has their own biases and preferences.  Also, what may be a nearly perfect self-defense system for one person may not be for someone with a different body type, different level of physical conditioning, and so on.  Each person needs to find out what best fits their own body type and preferences.

A few of the strengths of BJJ include that you are always working against resisting opponents, and it teaches excellent techniques for controlling and ending a fight on the ground.

Weaknesses are that it generally only concerns itself with a single opponent, and brings the fight into what can be an inherently dangerous place that can be difficult to make a quick getaway from if things turn ugly.


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## LuckyKBoxer (Dec 17, 2010)

Touch Of Death said:


> It has its drawbacks. You won't be fighting off multiple attackers, but its just great against one guy.
> Sean


 
really?
I am a brown belt in Gracie Barra, I have used some of the skills I have learned and successfully gone up agianst multiple attackers.
you must be alot higher ranked then I am thougha nd know soemthing I dont know about the art I study and teach....
interesting.


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## eggg1994 (Dec 17, 2010)

well think you for the information and don't worry i have also been doing a self defence class called ema which means extreme martial arts which is the name of the place that i train at too. in that class we do a combonation of striking and grappling at the same time so i am also learn not only offensive but more defensive techniques for self defence. i know that no martial art is perfect for self defence but we are tought to get back up real quickly.


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## Blindside (Dec 17, 2010)

LuckyKBoxer said:


> really?
> I am a brown belt in Gracie Barra, I have used some of the skills I have learned and successfully gone up agianst multiple attackers.
> you must be alot higher ranked then I am thougha nd know soemthing I dont know about the art I study and teach....
> interesting.



Wait, are you saying you didn't jump to guard and start working for an armbar?


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## sgtmac_46 (Dec 17, 2010)

If one learns the nature of things, and where they apply, one stops asking some of these questions.

For example, BJJ is very effective, within a certain context and envelope.......if one knows where certain techniques apply and where they do not, one can use it extremely effectively.

The problems start, though, for many beginners in the study of conflict and self-defense, who fail to understand the nature of physical conflict, and instead, get overwhelmed by the subject and simply want to be told 'Alright, which techniques/systems are the best for me to study' instead of understanding that the question is broad and unanswerable with any legitimacy.

Now, if one were to ask......'What is the best way to deal with a guy throwing a punch at me in a crowded bar' one gets a little closer to the issue.........but simply asking 'Which is the best for truly effective self defence' cannot be answered.........defense against what?  When?  Where?


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## Big Don (Dec 17, 2010)

> *if bjj is truely effective for self defence then i want to hear it from a black belt*


Don't fixate too much on Black Belts, some of them don't really know much about their own art, let alone a different art.


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## Bob Hubbard (Dec 17, 2010)

One on one, unarmed, it's effective.
1 vs 12 with half of those 12 armed with blades, I'll go with nike-do.
1 vs guy 10 ft away pointing a glock at my chest, he gets my wallet, I hope I get to live.
BJJ IS effective, depending on the situation. No single art is going to be 100% effective in 100% of the cases.  Wing Chun is effective, Tai chi is effective, kenpo is effective, hell even kendo is effective, but none are 100%.


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## Touch Of Death (Dec 18, 2010)

LuckyKBoxer said:


> really?
> I am a brown belt in Gracie Barra, I have used some of the skills I have learned and successfully gone up agianst multiple attackers.
> you must be alot higher ranked then I am thougha nd know soemthing I dont know about the art I study and teach....
> interesting.


You are a god,


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## Touch Of Death (Dec 18, 2010)

LuckyKBoxer said:


> really?
> I am a brown belt in Gracie Barra, I have used some of the skills I have learned and successfully gone up agianst multiple attackers.
> you must be alot higher ranked then I am thougha nd know soemthing I dont know about the art I study and teach....
> interesting.


You are awesome dude. Have you thought about marketing multiple opponent grappling classes. That's web worthy, to say the least.
Sean


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## MJS (Dec 18, 2010)

eggg1994 said:


> hey i want to know if bjj is truely effective for self defence and i want to hear it from a bjj black belts point of view because i am just losing hope of learning effective self defence and not some of that retarded ufc stuff that people always complain about bjj not being so good for self defence and i need proof and i want to hear yalls expirence from bjj.


 
I'm not a BJJ BB.  In fact while I have done a bit of rolling, I'm really not interested in ranking.  So...that being said, I'll still toss in my .02. 

Any art has the potential to be effective.  As I've said many times before, its how the art is trained by the person doing it.  Believe it or not, many times when people hear BJJ, right away they think ground.  Well of course.  We've seen Royce and Rickson defeat people in the ring with it.  And usually they're on the ground.  But, that doesn't mean that some chokes and locks can't be applied while standing.  Again, its in the context of how its trained.  Now this isn't to say that its the most effective stand up art, but again, certain things can be used.  

Keep this in mind as well...many people who do BJJ, also crosstrain in other arts, to further round out their ability.


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## LuckyKBoxer (Dec 18, 2010)

Touch Of Death said:


> You are a god,


 
apparantly someone talking about something he knows about seems like a god to you.
Im sure the earliest ignorant men thought fire was a god as well..
we know better know, I have hope for you yet.


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## LuckyKBoxer (Dec 18, 2010)

Touch Of Death said:


> You are awesome dude. Have you thought about marketing multiple opponent grappling classes. That's web worthy, to say the least.
> Sean


 
Listen just because your ignorant about Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and think that it means you have to connect and stay connected while rolling around on the ground with a person for an entire confrontation isnt my fault..
Learning positional advantage, how to pass an opponents limbs, how to lock, dislocate, or break limbs, and choke an opponent out does not have to be done in a horizontal position.
keeping a body between you and other attackers as you dispatch that person is also fairly easy to do using skills taught in Jiu Jitsu.
We also have many takedowns.
Combine that with most human beings abilities to punch, push, pull, poke, bite, etc. and an ability to think... you might be out of luck there.... and you can form a fairly formidable defense against multiple opponents... at least close to as formidable as most martial arts can.
If you want to condescending and act like a know it all, at least do it about something you have actual knowledge of.


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## Tez3 (Dec 18, 2010)

LuckyKBoxer said:


> Listen just because your ignorant about Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and think that it means you have to connect and stay connected while rolling around on the ground with a person for an entire confrontation isnt my fault..
> Learning positional advantage, how to pass an opponents limbs, how to lock, dislocate, or break limbs, and choke an opponent out does not have to be done in a horizontal position.
> keeping a body between you and other attackers as you dispatch that person is also fairly easy to do using skills taught in Jiu Jitsu.
> We also have many takedowns.
> ...


 

Easy there! You know nothing about this poster and there is no need to be so quick to condemn him. He phrases words the way he does for a reason, he's not being condescending at all, he knows he doesn't know it all and is on a very difficult path trying to learn martial arts. I suggest that tolerance and understanding is something a martial artist such as yourself should practice. Eggg is doing the best he can and isn't trying to upset anyone, so don't read it that way.


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## Tez3 (Dec 18, 2010)

LuckyKBoxer said:


> apparantly someone talking about something he knows about seems like a god to you.
> Im sure the earliest ignorant men thought fire was a god as well..
> we know better know, I have hope for you yet.


 

Do all your posts have to be sarcastic and attacking?


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## LuckyKBoxer (Dec 18, 2010)

Tez3 said:


> Easy there! You know nothing about this poster and there is no need to be so quick to condemn him. He phrases words the way he does for a reason, he's not being condescending at all, he knows he doesn't know it all and is on a very difficult path trying to learn martial arts. I suggest that tolerance and understanding is something a martial artist such as yourself should practice. Eggg is doing the best he can and isn't trying to upset anyone, so don't read it that way.


 
my post was nto directed to Eggg, I hav eno problem with Eggg, who did i quote and reply to?
Sean.
I know Sean from other posts..
he started being condescending... maybe you missed that completely.
My posts will be made in the tone I choose, until such time as I am banned from this site, or bored. I make no exceptions, I will show a level of respect were one is given, and a level of disrespect where I feel that to is also given.
Do not presume that you can tell me how to act, and have me accept that and step in line. I walk to my own beat, and will not change myself for anyone.
I do think however that you misplaced my reply as being to Eggg and not to Sean(Touch of Death) and if I had seent he same I probably would have thought the same you did. So I will assume this is a case of a misunderstanding. If not then let me know.


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## Bob Hubbard (Dec 18, 2010)

*Folks, if there's a problem, use the red triangle and let the staff deal with it.
If not, take the bickering private please.
Thanks.*


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## Tez3 (Dec 18, 2010)

LuckyKBoxer said:


> my post was nto directed to Eggg, I hav eno problem with Eggg, who did i quote and reply to?
> Sean.
> I know Sean from other posts..
> he started being condescending... maybe you missed that completely.
> ...


 
I'm trying very hard not to let Egggs thread be sidetracked by bickering, he needs straight answers and techniques he can use. He doesn't deserve his thread descending into bickering. 
Who am I to try to influence the way the thread goes so that it runs smoothly without rancourous posts? Have a guess on that one, hint..top right hand side of my posts.


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## Steve (Dec 18, 2010)

I think is fine to be sensitive to different posters, but expecting everyone to walk on eggshells (no pun intended) is a little over the top.


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## Touch Of Death (Dec 18, 2010)

LuckyKBoxer said:


> Listen just because your ignorant about Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and think that it means you have to connect and stay connected while rolling around on the ground with a person for an entire confrontation isnt my fault..
> Learning positional advantage, how to pass an opponents limbs, how to lock, dislocate, or break limbs, and choke an opponent out does not have to be done in a horizontal position.
> keeping a body between you and other attackers as you dispatch that person is also fairly easy to do using skills taught in Jiu Jitsu.
> We also have many takedowns.
> ...


I was unaware that BJJ was ideal for multiple opponents, and I can't wait to see the vid. You should, however, re-read the attacking order in the thread.
Sean


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## Tez3 (Dec 18, 2010)

stevebjj said:


> I think is fine to be sensitive to different posters, but expecting everyone to walk on eggshells (no pun intended) is a little over the top.


 
No one deserves to have people bickering on their threads especially when they are _new_ _to MT_, puts people off somewhat.
Much better to wait until they've been here a while!


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## eggg1994 (Dec 18, 2010)

he's right you shouldn't ridicule someone like me you know. you know im just trying to get information on my art im taking and if you have a problem with me then i suggest you take it somewhere else. im defending him because im a nice man and you shouldn't get angry with him. please put nice things on here


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## LuckyKBoxer (Dec 19, 2010)

eggg1994 said:


> he's right you shouldn't ridicule someone like me you know. you know im just trying to get information on my art im taking and if you have a problem with me then i suggest you take it somewhere else. im defending him because im a nice man and you shouldn't get angry with him. please put nice things on here


 
I wasnt talking to or about you, but trust me you wont have to worry, I am not planning on looking in on any of your posts anymore.


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## xfighter88 (Dec 19, 2010)

I have some experience in the self defense arena. I have trained ground and striking arts a fair amount. For me personally striking works better for multiples as it lets you get in and out sooner. That being said, if you knock one guy and and find yourself tackle by a second attacker you better know some BJJ, wrestling or something else. As it was said earlier the broader you can make your skills the better. 

As far as what BJJ moves work the best....When I was a bouncer I did a lot of Push one shoulder pull the other and slip in a rear naked choke. That lets you drag the guy out of the bar and puts him between you and his buddies. You can always throw him into his friends and run if you need to as well. (be sure to kick the back of his knee really hard as you release him). :2xbird:


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## Tez3 (Dec 19, 2010)

xfighter88 said:


> I have some experience in the self defense arena. I have trained ground and striking arts a fair amount. For me personally striking works better for multiples as it lets you get in and out sooner. That being said, if you knock one guy and and find yourself tackle by a second attacker you better know some BJJ, wrestling or something else. As it was said earlier the broader you can make your skills the better.
> 
> As far as what BJJ moves work the best....*When I was a bouncer I did a lot of Push one* *shoulder pull the other and slip in a rear naked choke.* That lets you drag the guy out of the bar and puts him between you and his buddies. You can always throw him into his friends and run if you need to as well. (be sure to kick the back of his knee really hard as you release him). :2xbird:


 

The doormen here call that 'necking' someone, very effective. Have you tried putting the choke one one handed? Our instructor teaches this one as it's useful for soldiers who are armed as well as doormen who aren't, you put the arm around the neck as per RNC but put your hand on your chin or side of face, this gives a choke while leaving your other hand free, I'm short so it works even better as the person I'm doing it to ends up bending backwards, a knee into the back of his knee or the muscle in the back of the legs helps. The attacker's body is in front of your acting as a shield, it's probably when he finds out who his friends are!


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## MJS (Dec 19, 2010)

Hmm....while BJJ may not be the ultimate in multi man defense, I'd say some aspects can be used.  For example...I see nothing wrong with grabbing onto someone, using them as a temporary shield against others.  Its very possible that people will back off, when they see their friend gasping for air, his arm ready to be broken, etc.  

OTOH, while I have been a Kenpo man for a long time now, I dont feel that they have the market cornered on multi man defense either.  I mean, IMO, some of the YT clips that I've seen have been, well, rather iffy.  Furthermore, IMO, I also do not feel that Kenpo has the market cornered on ground defense, despite what certain people say.  

As I've said many, many times....nothing is 100%.  Theres something useful in every art, IMO.


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## Tez3 (Dec 19, 2010)

MJS said:


> Hmm....while BJJ may not be the ultimate in multi man defense, I'd say some aspects can be used. For example...I see nothing wrong with grabbing onto someone, using them as a temporary shield against others. *Its very possible that people will back off, when they see their friend gasping for air, his arm ready to be broken, etc.*
> 
> OTOH, while I have been a Kenpo man for a long time now, I dont feel that they have the market cornered on multi man defense either. I mean, IMO, some of the YT clips that I've seen have been, well, rather iffy. Furthermore, IMO, I also do not feel that Kenpo has the market cornered on ground defense, despite what certain people say.
> 
> As I've said many, many times....nothing is 100%. Theres something useful in every art, IMO.


 
If they don't it's time for that guy to reassess his 'friendships' lol! Possibly while lying in a hospital bed.


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## MA-Caver (Dec 19, 2010)

Tez3 said:


> If they don't it's time for that guy to reassess his 'friendships' lol! Possibly while lying in a hospital bed.



AMEN!  With friends like these....


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## WC_lun (Dec 19, 2010)

Egg, I think you are getting too caught up with style here.  BJJ can be great for self-defense, as can any other art, if taught properly.  The questions you should be asking if you are concerned about self defense is if your school teaches it well and can you apply what your school teaches.

If you enjoy the classes you are taking then that is something important to consider, whether it is good self defense training or not.  Enjoying what you are doing is very important.


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## James Kovacich (Dec 19, 2010)

Nomad said:


> Pick a fight with a BJJ black belt, then let us know how it goes...


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## James Kovacich (Dec 19, 2010)

MJS said:


> Hmm....while BJJ may not be the ultimate in multi man defense, I'd say some aspects can be used. For example...I see nothing wrong with grabbing onto someone, using them as a temporary shield against others. Its very possible that people will back off, when they see their friend gasping for air, his arm ready to be broken, etc.
> 
> OTOH, while I have been a Kenpo man for a long time now, I dont feel that they have the market cornered on multi man defense either. I mean, IMO, some of the YT clips that I've seen have been, well, rather iffy. Furthermore, IMO, I also do not feel that Kenpo has the market cornered on ground defense, despite what certain people say.
> 
> As I've said many, many times....nothing is 100%. Theres something useful in every art, IMO.


Very much agree and I might add. It we are "truly" talking "multiple" attackers. No fighter from any art can be in "two" places at once. Something to think about...


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## James Kovacich (Dec 19, 2010)

eggg1994 said:


> hey i want to know if bjj is truely effective for self defence and i want to hear it from a bjj black belts point of view because i am just losing hope of learning effective self defence and not some of that retarded ufc stuff that people always complain about bjj not being so good for self defence and i need proof and i want to hear yalls expirence from bjj.


Your profile says your an orange belt in BJJ, although I've never seen a BJJ school with orange belts except for kids. My question is why aren't you asking your instructor?


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## Tanaka (Dec 19, 2010)

James Kovacich said:


> Your profile says your an orange belt in BJJ, although I've never seen a BJJ school with orange belts except for kids. My question is why aren't you asking your instructor?



He also has a very weird name too. -Kabuto Yamato-


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## James Kovacich (Dec 19, 2010)

eggg1994 said:


> hey i want to know if bjj is truely effective for self defence and i want to hear it from a bjj black belts point of view because i am just losing hope of learning effective self defence and not some of that retarded ufc stuff that people always complain about bjj not being so good for self defence and i need proof and i want to hear yalls expirence from bjj.


 
Eggg,

You are in the right place to get your questions answered. Being an instructor I think it's important to establish a student/instructor relationship which in some cases can become a bond that lasts forever.

I think you'll also find that BJJ is an art that takes longer than normal to reach black belt and you'll find more blue and purple belts in the forums. Personally, being someone whose trained a few years in BJJ about 10 years back, I would listen closely to most BJJ purple belts and above. And if your below a blue belt, you can bet that the blue belts you meet have a lot to offer also.

As to your original question. All martial arts have weakness and strenth. Thats just the way it is. The artist is what makes the art. If you try differant classes or schools, you will know when you've found the right one for you. But don't let that discourage you. I've trained in many martial arts off and on since 1973 and I find myself today still training in new arts but also training in styles very closely related to to the very first style I trained in when I was 13 in 1973.

So it isn't so much of an issue of finding the perfect school or martial art for you because we have no way of knowing in advance where we will end up. What is important is that you are learning.


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## xfighter88 (Dec 19, 2010)

Tez3 said:


> The doormen here call that 'necking' someone, very effective. Have you tried putting the choke one one handed? Our instructor teaches this one as it's useful for soldiers who are armed as well as doormen who aren't, you put the arm around the neck as per RNC but put your hand on your chin or side of face, this gives a choke while leaving your other hand free, I'm short so it works even better as the person I'm doing it to ends up bending backwards, a knee into the back of his knee or the muscle in the back of the legs helps. The attacker's body is in front of your acting as a shield, it's probably when he finds out who his friends are!


 
yep I have practiced that one but haven't needed to use it. I learned it after I was done doing the club stuff. I am sure it would have worked well. I just haven't needed to try it since then. As a corrections officer they perfer you don't grab the neck in any way. I was told "it looks bad on camera." /shrug....politics


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## Cirdan (Dec 20, 2010)

Honestly, my first thought would be that BJJ spends the vast majority of time in class rolling on the floor and in self defense that is definately the last place you want to be.

On the other hand it is certainly a lot better than having no training, and most self defence situations do start at very close range where you have the option of grappling standing up. Grabbing the attacker, throwing him at his buddies and running sounds like excellent SD to me. BJJists also tend to be in very good physical shape.


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## Steve (Dec 20, 2010)

Just so it's clear, in addition to rolling around on the floor, we also work takedowns and standing up.

Below are a few technical stand up drills.  We also drill and spar with focuses on different aspects of grappling.  For example, we'll work to pass from top, bottom's working strictly to sweep/reverse, submit or reset (meaning establish a neutral position, ie stand up/disengage).   There are also many partner drills where you work to use your partner's movement to actually create space to disengage and stand back up.

[yt]KkhwsFG4LRo[/yt]


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## Balrog (Dec 20, 2010)

Bob Hubbard said:


> One on one, unarmed, it's effective.
> 1 vs 12 with half of those 12 armed with blades, I'll go with nike-do.
> 1 vs guy 10 ft away pointing a glock at my chest, he gets my wallet, I hope I get to live.
> BJJ IS effective, depending on the situation. *No single art is going to be 100% effective in 100% of the cases.  Wing Chun is effective, Tai chi is effective, kenpo is effective, hell even kendo is effective, but none are 100%.*


There it is.

It's not the martial art that matters, it's the martial artist.


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## Sarge (Feb 28, 2011)

Here is something I wrote awhlie back. I really do not have a problem with BJJ in general, just in them touting it's superiority as a Self Defense. It is a collective paper, though out between three people. It'll probably get me banned, but it is truthful observation and experience.

Having the gracie guys show us in the ring, how thier art is used in SD, doesn't relly do the job. They are playing by rules, not all out fighting for thier life.
*Brazilian Jiu Jitsu Lies*


Dear Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu (BJJ) Masters, Experts and Practitioners:

*What I am writing here is not to insult, downplay, or question the validity of BJJ as a Sport Fighting Art. It is great for the ring, and refereed matches. *

*What I am  writing is in disagreement with one aspect of what you do, telling everyone that your art is the ultimate On the street (way over used by your instructors and practitioners) self defense.*

_It will, if it hasnt already, will get someone seriously injured or killed. It is time the ******** flag was raised on the unknowing publics behalf. _

*And that is that your art has nothing to do with real self defense, but is a marketing campaign to suck money out of pockets that you would otherwise have to let pass by.*

I would probably respect you more if you were truthful about it, but then the flow of cash would run dry, and you wouldnt be considered the Brazilian version of the Trump family.

I have been told many times that 80% of all fights go to the ground. I have never seen the hard data on this though. If this is true, its  probably the result of the two combatants not knowing what they are doing. Or not realizing that it is so very dangerous. Does it count if I hit you and you go to the ground because of it?
Your Instructors continually pound this, and other lies about how superior your art is to all other instruction, even the Gracie family has to know this is an out and out untruth.
Can you win a street fight by going to the ground? YES!, you can get lucky, however you will pay dearly for it in the absolute best of circumstances. A BJJ player is not a street fighter.

What we are really talking about is odds. With what I and others have seen in classes and students of BJJ, you are decreasing their odds of survival significantly! You are doing a serious disservice to anyone that takes your class if you tell them that BJJ is a street worthy self defense. But hey, all that badass BJJ gear sure looks good on them, heck, maybe the family will like it so much that the people you are teaching can be buried in it!
We are not saying that what we teach is better, but it is geared toward reality, awareness, inflicting serious damage quickly, in a street fight or survival situation.

What many of us have learned in many years of studying various Martial Arts, and Reality Based Self Defense (RBSD) systems, is that going to the ground in a street fight of any type is the last thing you want to do. Be prepared for it, learn to fight from there, but dont willingly go, or take your opponent there.

My Instructor (whose name I will not state because this has nothing to do with him), is a Golden Gloves Boxer, and has Black Belts in Aiki Juijitsu, Kempo, Filipino stick and knife arts, Aikdo, Judo, Tae Kwon Do, Taijutsu, Koryu, and was awarded a purple belt from Saulo. He could get a black belt, he just didnt want to pay the $3000 cover charge. He has been learning and teaching fighting for over 40 years, with the pioneers of the afore mentioned arts in America. He will tell you *Dont take a man to the ground, beat him into it*

In reality, BJJ is a derivative of Judo, anyone that tries to tell you different is a liar. BJJs history is well documented. Helio Gracie adapted it and then modified it to his use and abilities, and he was an excellent fighter. But when it all comes down to it, BJJ is only used to subdue someone until the opponent yells Uncle. A choke is a choke, and an armbar is an armbar, no matter how you get there.

Once that has happened, everyone is allowed to get up and walk away. Or they can go at it again until someone taps out, but make no mistake, you will usually walk away. BJJ is a subduing art, like Judo, and Aikido, not a killing art. And again, there is nothing wrong with that, until you use it On the street

*Fighting for points or submission in the arena is fine. In the real world, fighting for your life is a different story, if you win, you live; thats it, no trophies, no one screaming your name, no interviews to be shown on the Jumbotron, no pretty girls hanging on you. No one calling you a badass, all you get is your life. Puts MMA and BJJ in a different light when you look at it like that, dont it? *

Randori or Kumite is practiced in Japan, and Okinawa. It means Chaos Taking or Multiple Attackers and is a free form style of practicing grappling, striking or using weapons, usually against multiple attackers and is used in Jiu-jitsu, Judo, Aikido, Iaido, Kempo, and many others. It is called Matsogi in Korea and it is also used in Chinese arts like San Shou, or Tai Chi, but is simply known as Sparring The Gracie clan did not invent this, as it has been written, it has been going on for hundreds of years all over the world. Oh yeah, the Greeks did it in the Olympics a few thousand years ago, it was and is called Pankration, which is also the name of their martial art.

Now, lets look at what a street fight is, and what really happens.
Street fights start in a standing position, period.  Either you werent smart enough de-escalate, avoid or escape the situation, or because you werent aware of what was happening. You allowed the interview to escalate(Thats right, I said to avoid the confrontation)

Add to that, that usually it will be one against multiple attackers (people are pack animals), any of which could have a weapon; that you will not see until it is used on you; anybody, even untrained people see that shooting for a single leg or even contemplating going to the ground would be foolish at best, deadly in any other case.

_*One other thing to add: If anybody has a knife in their hand, trained or untrained, in my eyes they become a 10th degree master and I treat them that way!*_

 Street fights tend to be over in seconds, not minutes, and they are all out brawls, that which tend to be won by the person who got the best, most damaging shot in first. It is not a chess match to be thought out and then applied to what you think your opponents weaknesss are. MMA and BJJ fighters have weeks if not months to study their opponent.
You may never even see your attackers face until court proceedings, if you survived the attack.

_(By the way, I am not lumping MMA fighters in with BJJ players. MMA people have figured out over time that you have to be very good at hand to hand fighting. They work hard learning to hit, and take hits, and will probably tear you up on the street. Boxing, Kempo, and Muay Thai are generally the favored striking arts in their profession.)_

Now, add to that what BJJ players are taught: BJJ is the ultimate self defense; taking someone to the ground in any situation will win the fight, any fight. No other art can come close. On top of all the macho posturing and ******** BJJ players tend to spout that is exactly opposite what you are taught to do in self defense. 

*I saw the news and video that you are teaching this to children now. It is at great peril and its irresponsible to them and their parents, who are getting ripped off and brainwashed into believing that BJJ is teaching them how to be safe and responsible when in reality, you teach your older students to be narrow minded bullies, who will fight at the drop of a hat. Those two things do not match up.*

As I write this essay, I realize that you may wonder what my qualifications are to make these statements. Street fighting in Detroit as a dumb kid, Aiki-Jiu-Jitsu Black Belt, knife and stick fighting, weapons and H2H training in the military, Boxing and studying fighting arts for the last 32 years. I have taught self defense for 16 years, and developed curriculums for females and children. And while I have done all of this, I am by no means an expert, I am still learning, training and making what I do better, I am still a student.
Now while I am not an expert at BJJ, but I am pretty good at countering it, as are the other contributors to this essay. Let me give you an idea of what I know about real world fighting and using a sport against it.

First, I practice awareness, and pay attention to detail. Plus, I will not allow myself to lower my standards or character to be goaded into a fight over name calling. So, I would have to be ambushed. But for this instance I am going to be stupid. Lets put this is into perspective:

*We are outside, we were in a bar and we had words, I left but you followed me into the parking lot, continuing to verbally challenge me by calling me a *****, or whatever you want to insert there to insult me. The parking lot is typical, dimly lit with an asphalt type base.*

*I turn to face you, and let you know I am as stupid as you are, because I have chosen to stand and fight instead of leave. I am a Brazilian Black Belt you yell And Ill kick your ***** *** you add. The aggressiveness you have had drilled into you, has given me an advantage, I now know what you know. *I know that because of your training, you will want to take me to the ground, where you will try to choke me out, or armbar me or something.

*My only response to you is bring it ***** *and I assume a fighting stance. What I dont let you know is, I am also well trained, and I have a Gerber multi-tool clipped to my belt that I use like a Kubota, and I am very good at it. *You dont see it, the parking lot is dimly lit*. I know fighting and fighters, we all run to momma when we are fighting, in other words, we do what we have been trained to do the longest, and we are most comfortable with, and in BJJ, it is shooting for a leg takedown.

You take a typical crouched stance and slowly advance on me. I will move in circular motions around you, waiting for you to make your move. I will watch to see if you are as aggressive as you are loud. I may even bait you by leaving a leg just a little more forward. As you lower your head to find your target, I move my hand to my side. Youre so locked on you dont even hear the click of the pliers moving forward from the handle.
*You make your move, and so do I, driving my metal multi-tool into your head as I sprawl, driving you into the ground. I place a hand on your head, and drive three good knee shots to your head, youre done.* On top of the damage I have inflicted, the ground has messed up your hands, knees, and face. I stand up look around and split, leaving you there to be found.

You brought hands to a knife fight, and didnt even know it. It actually didnt have to be a knife, It could have easily been a knee to the face (I practice that a lot), a strike to the head, a total body sprawl, using all 220 pounds of me, to slam you into the concrete or asphalt. Or maybe a head rip, twisting your neck as hard as I can as we go down.
Or, you could have gotten the drop on me, maybe you were faster than I anticipated and we rolled back onto the ground. As you try to mount me, I drive my fingers into your eyes, I give you a palm strike to the nose, and then roll with you, *yes, I know those tricks too, go with the motions, whichever way you are trying to go, I will help you.* Maybe I drive my knee into your crotch, not once, because if I have a way to do it, I will hit you six, maybe seven times, crushing your testicles. I will slap, punch, kick, bite, scratch, break, or otherwise damage anything I can to win. I do not follow any rules; this is a street fight, there are none and I dont care about you.

*Pray nothing is within reach, because I will use it to win, a rock, a straw, a pebble, I will hurt you with it, I practice it.*

Do you practice taking hits? I do. I also practice getting out of the way of them. You really dont want to go toe to toe with me, I know how to hit you very hard from angles you cant even imagine. I know how to use the one inch punch, I know where all your soft targets are in your whole body. I know how to use my forearms like a bladed weapon, and you would rather take a punch, than an elbow strike from me. I am very good with my knees, and I can destroy your lower body and legs with kicks.
You better pray I dont have a stick in my hand, even a small one, because it is as deadly in my hands as a knife. I grew up street fighting, I have a high threshold for pain, and I can really pour on the damage if I have to.

*As I write this, I am sitting because of doctors orders. I took a fall on ice, a chance in winter and I tore my rotator cuff and quadraceips on my right side, I taught Self Defense and put in a full work day afterward, before I saw the doctor. I also once walked on a broken ankle for 6 weeks before I could see a doctor, but thats a different story.*

Lets pick a different scenario: I walked out of the bar and you followed me out, as I left I sent a text to a buddy, who lives not far from here. And as we were busy squaring off, he pulled into the parking lot. He brought a baseball bat. You took me down and were doing pretty good, then the lights went out, he took a full swing at your head and connected with it. I saw it and even held you up for a second. It cost you your life. We may get caught by the police, but what does it matter, your dead.

I know these are in my favor, I could have written a dozen more, easily, but it all comes out the same. I am not sure that someone could write an honest counter to these.
 I have a buddy, who has never taken a MA lesson in his life. I would never want to take him on, all he has ever done is street fight. He has never lost to anyone, ever. He has commitment, and he likes to fight. How do you think a BJJ player would do against him? I also have a friend who is a Salo Black Belt. He is a beast, but he also has boxing and Aiki- Jiu-Jitsu in his bag.

*I guess the biggest difference between BJJ and RBSD is; BJJ teaches you how to compete against your opponent. RBSD teaches you how to survive. It is a huge difference, and it is time that everyone knows it.*

Again, if you are a BJJ player, good for you, keep going, get your Black Belt. But dont expect it to save your *** on the real world. Youre not Alice, this isnt Wonderland, and you will get your *** handed to you, if you are lucky enough to survive.

I and the other contributors to this essay know this is going to piss a lot of people off. Oh well, it is the truth and I am tired of all the crap that BJJ players are taught and expected to pass on to others. BJJ is a awesome competition art, as is Judo,  Tae Kwon Do, Japanese JJ, Wrestling and many others. The only time it could be considered self defense I guess is if you are going against a total idiot. But then you may be considered the aggresor when the cops show up. Also if you let anyone know you were trained in BJJ (which you will), the cops will automatically think you were looking for a fight, you have that rep.

*This is something that had to be said. We tried very hard to not insult anyone, just state facts, and obvious deficiencies in BJJ as a Self Defense System.*

If you have anything to add, please feel free to contact us, we love well thought out, logical, intelligent discussions on the subject. Seriously, we do.

If you are just going to be another one of the thousands who are brainwashed into defending BJJ as a Self Defense, and youre going to just call us *******s or something of that ilk, dont bother, we know what we are, and you probably wont change our minds with your witty repartee.

Please dont be stupid enough to challenge us to a fight, the guy that wrote this is the lightweight of the group. Besides, we really arent interested in giving you our house, car, and other things we worked hard for, because you cannot accept facts.
One more thing, stop looking at You Tube and other video sites to reinforce your image as a BJJ player. Getting a Kung Fu Master to come to my dojo, then ringing the mat with my people, and then telling him he cannot do what he does, so that I can Toy with him before I take him down is a blatant setup.

If we are to get together, I am doing what I do best, at a neutral site, and youre going to have to deal with it. What I like best is Knife Fighting.  Any Takers?

*I know this will make people angry, sorry about that, I really am. But the time has come for BJJ to be looked upon as an art, not the supreme everything, that people try to make it out to be.*
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Sargeslide*


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