# Why start on the knees?



## Andrew Green (May 9, 2006)

When rolling why do we do this?  For those that don't grapple, why do you think we do it?

I think it is often a neccessary trap, but one you got to be careful not to fall to deep into...


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## MA-Caver (May 9, 2006)

For one thing I would think that by starting on the knees you incapacitate your opponent's abilty to balance (yea, even on the ground) and create some type of leverage (though there are other ways) to use against you. They won't be able to kick (yes, I know that's not primarily a grappling thing) and won't be able to put a sissor hold on you with their legs. 

:idunno: did I win?





oh wait, this wasn't a contest question... was it?


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## Kembudo-Kai Kempoka (May 9, 2006)

For me, it's about longecity for the practitioner. Starting up means someone (or both) have to come down to the mat; that's where many injuries happen, esp w/ newbies. It's a way to get to concentrate on rolling techs without worrying about gravity-related injuries in the process.

Regards,

D.


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## Andrew Green (May 9, 2006)

Well, as for winning, the obvious answer is "space".  You can get a lot more people rolling if they start from there knees then if they start standing.


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## green meanie (May 9, 2006)

We don't start on our knees. I think its a bad habit to get into.


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## lenatoi (May 9, 2006)

I agree with Kembudo-Kai Kempoka. by starting on your knees you can work on your ground work more, and not have to worry about an injury before you ever get there.

Most of the time I start in someone's guard, or with someone in mine.


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## Echsos (May 9, 2006)

I think they should start from standing.  They should have to learn how to control the opponent on his feet and on the ground as well.


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## Brian R. VanCise (May 9, 2006)

I think starting from a standing position, knees, various ground positions such as guard, mount, etc. all work.  All of these are good in my opinon.
I imagine that the knee thing came about because of space and to limit injuries.  However, I have witnessed at least one horrific knee injury from the knee starting position.  The guy who got injured just did not move correctly when swept and his knee did not appreciate it.   So injuries can happen in any of these starting positions. (that is just part of what we do)

Brian R. VanCise
www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com


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## Kembudo-Kai Kempoka (May 9, 2006)

For context...I was in "backyard" judo for many years before these Brazilian yahoo's came to american shores. "Backyard" means we did our throwing on packed dirt in a backyard...when it rained, on the living room floor. We had two guys break knee-caps, multiple, multiple, multiple wrist injuries (even with proper ukemi-waza), and many ribs crack when bags of water slap the ground at rapid velocity, and more than a few hyperextension injuries of knees and elbows.

I start on my knees now, or straight from position drills, because I'm too danged old & arthritic to want to be tossed hard to the ground anymore by guys who lack control or a clue. Incidently...the injuries I've sustained training throws and rolling have never been from senior students, but always from beginners. I'll occasionally start upright in good-guy/bad-guy drills, but aside from that, I prefer to start closer to the ground.

Regards,

Dave


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## Marvin (May 9, 2006)

We do it to limit injuries as well as for those who cant take a fall well yet.


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## Eternal Beginner (May 9, 2006)

I know one of the main reasons for us is space.  When you have forty guys/gals wanting to roll if you are going to go from standing we can only have three or four pairs safely on the mats.  If we start on the knees  we can almost accomodate everyone.

I think the problem is when you start _exclusively_ from the knees and do no takedown training at all.


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## green meanie (May 10, 2006)

Eternal Beginner said:
			
		

> I know one of the main reasons for us is space. When you have forty guys/gals wanting to roll if you are going to go from standing we can only have three or four pairs safely on the mats. If we start on the knees we can almost accomodate everyone.
> 
> I think the problem is when you start _exclusively_ from the knees and do no takedown training at all.


 
Agreed. :asian:


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## MJS (May 10, 2006)

Yes, I agree with the space issue as well.  I'd also say that it forces you to try other ways, aside from the standard takedowns used from a standing position, to get your opponent down.

Mike


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## patroldawg27 (May 10, 2006)

We do it with the kids mainly as a way to prevent injuries. We also do it with beginner adults. Intermediate and Advanced belts start from stand up position.


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