# Stick forms At tournaments



## TallAdam85 (Jun 25, 2003)

Hello Now I compete ALOT! lately I have been seen more and more people start to do made up stick forms in tournaments. Now I just want see how you guys feel about this.

:asian:


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## TallAdam85 (Jun 25, 2003)

I feel that it is cool to see people do made up forms with sticks but I don't like when the people don't even know anything about Filipino Martial Arts. 


:asian:


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## pesilat (Jun 25, 2003)

I have mixed feelings on the subject. I have no problem with people making up forms - if there's some understanding behind the form. Often, there's not. They made it up in a purely flashy and surface mentality.

There are quite a few stick arts outside of the FMA. So someone could have good stick work and not be involved in the FMA.

And then you've got to consider that a lot of the people you see doing these forms at tournaments aren't actually the ones to blame - it's their instructors who have gone to one seminar, got a couple of siniwalli patterns, then started claiming to know something about stickwork and starting to teach it to their students.

Or, worse yet, is when people watch an FMA class from through a window from across the street, then go back to their school and try to mimic what they saw (we had this very thing happen with a TKD school that used to be near us). These guys don't even get the benefit of hearing the explanation of the material. Then they go and try to teach!?

So sometimes you have to blame the instructor, not the person actually doing the form. And sometimes, even without any FMA, they may have valid stick training (i.e.: French La Canne, Brazilian Maculele, etc.).

Mike


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## arnisandyz (Jun 25, 2003)

Rick Diagulla, who is one of Ray Dionaldo's Guros did the 64 form from Pikiti Tirsia with a Kris at an open tournament and won first place.  I think it is good  for the FMA to get this kind of exposure.  I don't really have a problem with the TKD or Karate people swinging sticks around creatively (as they do with every other weapon) just so long as they don't claim to be doing FMA.  One time i saw an instructor with a group of student who had "escrima" patches (among others) on there uniform.  I tried to engage in friendly conversation saying "its great your incorporating FMA into your school, etc...  He want very comfortable talking about it.  I think the "escrima" patch was one of those tokens given out when you "master" a weapon form made up by god knows who. "escrima" referring to the weapon 'escrima sticks" and not the system of FMA. Very sad, 


andy


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## Brian Johns (Jun 26, 2003)

Like some of the other folks out there, I have mixed feelings about some of the stick forms being performed out there, particularly those performed by folks who have very little training in FMA. Sort of like "karate with sticks."

On the other hand, a 10 year old Modern Arnis student of mine and Mao (and a very talented kid too) has performed the Modern Arnis Cane Anyos (Isa, Dalawa, Tatlo and Apat) combined in tournaments and has done very well. The kid also demonstrated this at the recent IMAF, Inc. camp in Lansing Michigan to great approval. Dr. Schea was particularly impressed by this performance.

Take care,
Brian Johns
Columbus, Ohio


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## thekuntawman (Jun 26, 2003)

arnis forms, when they do them well, are good, because it attract some people to the philippine martial arts. and really, with many of the spinning and twirling techniques, filipino style stick forms can be made to look as good as many of the flashy open forms, and have a combative application also.

i have seen a few people that did a very good job showing arnis forms. hey, we can be fancy too!


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## John J (Jun 27, 2003)

> if there's some understanding behind the form



Although the exposure in all type of tournaments is good for the art, I concur with Mike on the above. Often too many times we see fancy twirling, behind the back transfers, aerials and other ridiculous things.   

The forms event in our tournament is open to scrutiny. Judges are allowed to request participants to demonstrate the combat application of a specific technique, if it is in question. 

I realize other tournaments enjoy the creativity and acrobatics but IMO...it has no place in a combat art!

John


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## arnisandyz (Jun 27, 2003)

Often too many times we see fancy twirling, behind the back transfers, aerials and other ridiculous things.   

The forms event in our tournament is open to scrutiny. Judges are allowed to request participants to demonstrate the combat application of a specific technique, if it is in question. 

I realize other tournaments enjoy the creativity and acrobatics but IMO...it has no place in a combat art!

John [/B][/QUOTE] 

I guess like  you said, it depends on the type of tournament.  In most open tournaments the fancy twirling and acrobatic moves are what drives them.  It gets people in the door to watch.  Getting people in the doors means more sponsorships + revenue, etc.  All the kids watching the high flying antics want to learn Martial Arts so they can fly too.  It is a part of Martial Arts that has become entertainment.

Now if you try a double reverse flip in a Dog Bros. stick tournement........!!!


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## pesilat (Jun 27, 2003)

> _Originally posted by John J _
> *The forms event in our tournament is open to scrutiny. Judges are allowed to request participants to demonstrate the combat application of a specific technique, if it is in question.*



Ooh, I like that. Only problem I see is that it could make for some _very_ long forms competitions.

Mike


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## TallAdam85 (Jul 7, 2003)

cool i may start working on a stick form to compete with but I am not sure cause I may just do kama forms at when i compete.





:asian:


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## twinkletoes (Jul 9, 2003)

I was working on a competitive stick form for a while when I was still into forms (it feels so long ago).  I picked up some old school twirls from Lee Lowery (my primary instructor) from the olden days when twirling was less frowned upon  

I never finished it.  It looked cool, but it was all application.  Twirls were mixed with punyos and hard swings.  Lots of alive hand work, and then later double sticks.  

Never did finish that bad boy.  Oh well.

~TT


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