# Martial arts vs. stupidity



## vladone97 (Nov 17, 2013)

Why does everyone praise karate? Not as in "karate is the best and no other style compares to it", but as in "when you say martial arts, you refer strictly to karate". I mean, most people think karate is the only martial art in this world. I do kung fu because I hate karate with all its stereotypes and misconceptions (such as the "karate chop" thing, or "knife hand", for those who know it's not specific to karate). Some examples of what I mean:

Some of my younger friends know that I've been doing kung fu since I was 5. One day, we were all doing some "sparring" matches (light to no contact, of course). At first, one of them said "Whoever doesn't know karate at all, raise your hands" (most of them would use only the moves they saw in cartoons and video games). I raised my hand. And she said "I thought you've been doing karate since you were 5".
Another younger firend of mine doesn't do any martial art, but thinks any kick that looks awesome is karate. For example, whenever we meet (it's not very often), she asks me "Can you show me those awesome karate moves of yours?". Every time, I explain her the differences between kung fu and karate (and I think it's not hard to understand that they are completely opposite styles), and every time she forgets. Also, her godbrother does kickboxing, and she asks him the same thing.
Even one of the famous people from my country (Romania to be exact) said in an interview or something "I was a real tomboy when I was a child. I used to do jiu-jitsu because my childhood was full of Chinese movies with karate". (Seriously? "Chinese movies with karate"?). And to cap it all, she made a reference to Bruce Lee (I don't remember exactly what she said about him, though). Bruce Lee, the creator of Jeet Kune Do!
So, for short, what makes people so stupid? Is it because of TV shows like "Kickin' it", which is about some teens who do karate together but make references to all martial arts? Or is it just something like "if I've never heard of something, then it doesn't exist"?


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## Kung Fu Wang (Nov 17, 2013)

vladone97 said:


> "when you say martial arts, you refer strictly to karate".


Do you know the only MA job category that US Labor Department had back in the 70th was "Judo instructor". If you are a Kung Fu, Karate, or TKD instructor, you are categorized as "Judo instructor". Back in the 70th, when you say martial arts, you refer strictly to Judo.

Many years ago, one day my ex-girlfriend's mother asked me, "Do you still do that chop chop stuff?" I said, "Yes! I'm still doing my chop chop stuff." I felt no need to explain to her. When people has attitude like that toward MA, any more words that may come out of my month will be a waste.

One day someone asked a friend of mine, "What's your style?" My friend said, "My style is the style that can beat the .... out of you." I like his "simple" answer.

One day I did my pole hanging on a street sign. One guy asked me what I was doing. I gave him a detail explanation about what I was doing. He then gave an ugly look and left. After that, when I did pole hanging and if people asked me what I was doing, I just told them, "I was a monkey in my previous life."

Sometime a stupid question will deserve a stupid answer.


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## Xue Sheng (Nov 17, 2013)

vladone97 said:


> Why does everyone praise karate? Not as in "karate is the best and no other style compares to it", but as in "when you say martial arts, you refer strictly to karate". I mean, most people think karate is the only martial art in this world. I do kung fu because I hate karate with all its stereotypes and misconceptions (such as the "karate chop" thing, or "knife hand", for those who know it's not specific to karate). Some examples of what I mean:
> 
> Some of my younger friends know that I've been doing kung fu since I was 5. One day, we were all doing some "sparring" matches (light to no contact, of course). At first, one of them said "Whoever doesn't know karate at all, raise your hands" (most of them would use only the moves they saw in cartoons and video games). I raised my hand. And she said "I thought you've been doing karate since you were 5".
> Another younger firend of mine doesn't do any martial art, but thinks any kick that looks awesome is karate. For example, whenever we meet (it's not very often), she asks me "Can you show me those awesome karate moves of yours?". Every time, I explain her the differences between kung fu and karate (and I think it's not hard to understand that they are completely opposite styles), and every time she forgets. Also, her godbrother does kickboxing, and she asks him the same thing.
> ...



What style of "Kung Fu"?


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## vladone97 (Nov 17, 2013)

> Do you know the only MA job category that US Labor Department had back in the 70th was "Judo instructor". If you are a Kung Fu, Karate, or TKD instructor, you are categorized as "Judo instructor". Back in the 70th, when you say martial arts, you refer strictly to Judo.
> 
> Many years ago, one day my ex-girlfriend's mother asked me, "Do you still do that chop chop stuff?" I said, "Yes! I'm still doing my chop chop stuff." I felt no need to explain to her. When people has attitude like that toward MA, any more words that may come out of my month will be a waste.
> 
> ...




I only give my friends explainations in a manner that's easy to understand. All I tell them is that kung fu has fluid movements while karate is more like stop and go. Yet, they don't understand. So I'm asking again, what makes them so stupid that they don't understand this (especially the ones who study karate, since they should have a starting point in making the comparison)? Also, I live in Romania, not in the US, so I didn't know about the Judo instructor part.


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## vladone97 (Nov 17, 2013)

Xue Sheng said:


> What style of "Kung Fu"?


Bajiquan, Praying Mantis, Lian Huan Quan, Changquan, Tai Chi and Jeet Kune Do (yes, I consider JKD and Tai Chi styles of kung fu)


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## Kung Fu Wang (Nov 17, 2013)

vladone97 said:


> Bajiquan, Praying Mantis, Lian Huan Quan and Changquan



Those are good TCMA systems.

Bajiquan - power generation,
 Praying Mantis - speed generation,
 Lian Huan Quan - not familiar with this style,
Changquan - excellent foundation training.


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## Langenschwert (Nov 17, 2013)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> One day someone asked a friend of mine, "What's your style?" My friend said, "My style is the style that can beat the .... out of you." I like his "simple" answer.



Consider it stolen. 

To the OP: if it makes you feel any better, I've had my German longsword classes referred to as "karate". 

Really, MA are a really specialized endeavour. People just don't care enough to learn about it, and why should they? I had the same thing in my music career... I'd get asked if any given talentless hack was the greatest guitarist/drummer/whatever. I'd reply, "he's not really my cup of tea". I can't expect a layman or even a casual amateur musician to know who Jaco Pastorius was, considering they may only have heard of Miles Davis in passing, if that. Likewise the distinction between say Karate, Kung Fu and Silat is academic to the average person. So don't sweat it. Sweat in your training.

-Mark


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## Langenschwert (Nov 17, 2013)

vladone97 said:


> I only give my friends explainations in a manner that's easy to understand. All I tell them is that kung fu has fluid movements while karate is more like stop and go. Yet, they don't understand. So I'm asking again, what makes them so stupid that they don't understand this (especially the ones who study karate, since they should have a starting point in making the comparison)?



See my previous post. I could go into the distinction between linear and vertical improvisation in jazz, or stylistic differences between bebop and modal jazz, or what a "ii V I" is, and no one short of another musician is going to get it, and even then maybe not. Likewise, J.S. Bach is not "classical" music, it's _Baroque_ music. But it's all "classical" to the layman. And that's fine. 

-Mark


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## Touch Of Death (Nov 17, 2013)

Do you know what the terms mean?


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## Takai (Nov 17, 2013)

Touch Of Death said:


> Do you know what the terms mean?



Which terms? The conversation seems to be getting a little muddled.


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## Xue Sheng (Nov 17, 2013)

vladone97 said:


> Bajiquan, Praying Mantis, Lian Huan Quan, Changquan, Tai Chi and Jeet Kune Do (yes, I consider JKD and Tai Chi styles of kung fu)



 Kung Fu is a generic term for Chinese martial arts, albeit a bad translation it is what we are stuck with.

As already stated Bajiquan, Praying Mantis, Lian Huan Quan, Changquan, Taijiquan are all with in the Kung Fu container. As for JKD, that's debatable but then again it is not really worth wasting time debating.

And how long have you been training these individually?


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## Tames D (Nov 17, 2013)

Xue Sheng said:


> What style of "Kung Fu"?



There is more than one style? Learn something every day


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## Touch Of Death (Nov 17, 2013)

Takai said:


> Which terms? The conversation seems to be getting a little muddled.


Well if a lay person were to accuse me of doing either Karate or Kung fu, I would not bother to become upset. They mean the same damn thing, to the lay person. If you must correct them, correct them politely. If you get upset, you give martial arts a bad name with your attitude about a simple generic term, and when you finally do identify the art you study, they may laugh about it, remembering the incident.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Nov 17, 2013)

*what makes people so stupid?*

Back in the 70th, if you couldn't kick as good as Bruce Lee did in his movie, you won't be able to get any students. Back then, all MA schools were doing high kick, high kick, and still high kick. If you can do the

- hook kick, 
- inside crescent kick,
- spin back hook kick,

as good as Bruce Lee did in his movie, you won't have problem to get students.


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## Takai (Nov 17, 2013)

Touch Of Death said:


> Well if a lay person were to accuse me of doing either Karate or Kung fu, I would not bother to become upset. They mean the same damn thing, to the lay person. If you must correct them, correct them politely. If you get upset, you give martial arts a bad name with your attitude about a simple generic term, and when you finally do identify the art you study, they may laugh about it, remembering the incident.



I get that. I wasn't sure if you were asking about the musical terms or the martial terms. The conversation seems to diverge and I wanted to be sure I was following the right track.


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## J W (Nov 17, 2013)

To most people, "Karate" simply means martial arts. For most people, martial arts are all pretty much the same thing. Karate, kung fu, judo, whatever. They don't know or really care that there are different types of martial arts. So what? When people ask me if I still do karate, I just say yes. I currently train Wing Chun and have never actually studied Karate, but I don't usually bother to correct them. All they're really asking is if I still do martial arts, and if they prefer to call it karate then fine.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Nov 17, 2013)

J W said:


> When people ask me if I still do karate, I just say yes. I currently train Wing Chun ...



For historical reason, some Chinese just don't like to give Japanese the credit that they don't deserve. I won't be happy if someone said that I'm doing "Chinese Judo" instead of "Chinese wrestling".


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## Xue Sheng (Nov 17, 2013)

Tell my Taiji Shifu he does karate he will say no....but then....if he does not know you and you tell him he dies taiji he will likely also say no.....and he is Chinese 

But I do know what you are saying, the Japanese thing can be a problem to varying degrees depending on the generation


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## vladone97 (Nov 17, 2013)

Xue Sheng said:


> And how long have you been training these individually?


10 years in JKD and 2 years in the rest of them.


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## donald1 (Nov 17, 2013)

You bring up a point but what is happening isn't stupidity,  being stupid is like knowing what is wrong but doing it anyways 

What your dealing with is ignorance or lack of knowledge. It's common amongst a lot of people because they don't see different martial arts in different perspectives /usually they view it all as a whole which answers the calling all martial arts being karate part(mainly lack of knowledge)


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## Argus (Nov 17, 2013)

As if there aren't just as many, if not more, stereotypes and misconceptions in regards to "Kung-fu"?


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## vladone97 (Nov 17, 2013)

Touch Of Death said:


> Well if a lay person were to accuse me of doing either Karate or Kung fu, I would not bother to become upset. They mean the same damn thing, to the lay person. If you must correct them, correct them politely. If you get upset, you give martial arts a bad name with your attitude about a simple generic term, and when you finally do identify the art you study, they may laugh about it, remembering the incident.


I do correct them politely, but I'm talking about people who actually study or have studied karate, not lay people.


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## donald1 (Nov 17, 2013)

I live in Texas,  that's most people around me,  I know how you feel. I just nod and wave it can be difficult to try teach someone something that they don't know anything about. 

Best of luck with your chosen style


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## vladone97 (Nov 17, 2013)

Argus said:


> As if there aren't just as many, if not more, stereotypes and misconceptions in regards to "Kung-fu"?


Karate has more misconceptions and stereotypes taken to the extreme level of stupidity. Kung fu has only a few, such as the Shaolin being super-powered beings who can not only do the amazing things they train for their whole lives, but also fly and control the elements. As for karate, we have "karate is all about breaking wood with the karate chop" (as mentioned in the original post), "in karate you learn how to do the awesome or even gravity-defying kicks from video games, movies and cartoons" (again, mentioned in the original post), "In karate you learn how to throw fireballs", "karate black belts must register their fists as deadly weapons", "karate can teach you how to kill your opponent in one strike" or "if it doesn't require you to wear a kimono (apparently that's how most karatekas refer to their gis), then it's not a martial art". And these are just the ones that came into my mind right now.


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## vladone97 (Nov 17, 2013)

donald1 said:


> I live in Texas,  that's most people around me,  I know how you feel. I just nod and wave it can be difficult to try teach someone something that they don't know anything about.


I'm talking about people who actually study martial arts, not random idiots who have only seen a couple of movies and think they know what you're doing better than you know.


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## vladone97 (Nov 17, 2013)

donald1 said:


> You bring up a point but what is happening isn't stupidity,  being stupid is like knowing what is wrong but doing it anyways


If you explain differences between one style and a completely opposite style to a martial artist in the simplest way possible and they still don't understand, then it is stupidity. It's like explaining "1+1=2 because 2 comes after 1" to someone and after that, they still think that 1+1=4


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## Touch Of Death (Nov 18, 2013)

vladone97 said:


> Karate has more misconceptions and stereotypes taken to the extreme level of stupidity. Kung fu has only a few, such as the Shaolin being super-powered beings who can not only do the amazing things they train for their whole lives, but also fly and control the elements. As for karate, we have "karate is all about breaking wood with the karate chop" (as mentioned in the original post), "in karate you learn how to do the awesome or even gravity-defying kicks from video games, movies and cartoons" (again, mentioned in the original post), "In karate you learn how to throw fireballs", "karate black belts must register their fists as deadly weapons", "karate can teach you how to kill your opponent in one strike" or "if it doesn't require you to wear a kimono (apparently that's how most karatekas refer to their gis), then it's not a martial art". And these are just the ones that came into my mind right now.


I think you should let it go.


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## Dirty Dog (Nov 18, 2013)

vladone97 said:


> I'm talking about people who actually study martial arts, not random idiots who have only seen a couple of movies and think they know what you're doing better than you know.



Ok... so since you're a martial artist, does this mean you're stupid if you don't the differences between Tae Kwon Do and Taekwon-Do? How about TKD Moo Duk Kwan? how about tossing Tang So Do and Soo Bahk Do into the equation?

There are a billion (roughly) styles out there. Personally, I think you're getting way too worked up over this.


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## vladone97 (Nov 18, 2013)

> Ok... so since you're a martial artist, does this mean you're stupid if you don't the differences between Tae Kwon Do and Taekwon-Do? How about TKD Moo Duk Kwan? how about tossing Tang So Do and Soo Bahk Do into the equation?


No, but a martial artist is stupid if he/she doesn't understand the differences between his/her style and a completely opposite style after someone explained them to him/her in an easy to understand manner.


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## Touch Of Death (Nov 18, 2013)

vladone97 said:


> No, but a martial artist is stupid if he/she doesn't understand the differences between his/her style and a completely opposite style after someone explained them to him/her in an easy to understand manner.


I am starting to think the are doing this on purpose.


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## K-man (Nov 18, 2013)

vladone97 said:


> No, but a martial artist is stupid if he/she doesn't understand the differences between his/her style and a completely opposite style after someone explained them to him/her in an easy to understand manner.


I have been following this discussion with interest but this comment has spurred me into action. First, a quick question. What do you consider the main difference between Kung Fu and Karate? I take it from the comment above that you feel they are completely opposite style. Then another question. Just how do you explain the difference in an easy to understand manner?
:asian:


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## Dirty Dog (Nov 18, 2013)

vladone97 said:


> No, but a martial artist is stupid if he/she doesn't understand the differences between his/her style and a completely opposite style after someone explained them to him/her in an easy to understand manner.



OK, so please, explain the differences between your style and mine in an easy to understand manner.


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## Zero (Nov 18, 2013)

That's easy, in layman terms, with Okinawan Goju Ryu, if you are attacked you can overwhelm your opponent with various types of kicks, punches, knife hand chops or even sweeps and throws, 

whereas with kung fu...

...oh cr~@, wait a minute, have I been doin' chop suey kung fu all these years!?!


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## frank raud (Nov 18, 2013)

Zero said:


> That's easy, in layman terms, with Okinawan Goju Ryu, if you are attacked you can overwhelm your opponent with various types of kicks, punches, knife hand chops or even sweeps and throws,
> 
> whereas with kung fu...
> 
> ...oh cr~@, wait a minute, have I been doin' chop suey kung fu all these years!?!


 I believe the correct term is judo chop.


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## frank raud (Nov 18, 2013)

vladone97 said:


> Karate has more misconceptions and stereotypes taken to the extreme level of stupidity. Kung fu has only a few, such as the Shaolin being super-powered beings who can not only do the amazing things they train for their whole lives, but also fly and control the elements. As for karate, we have "karate is all about breaking wood with the karate chop" (as mentioned in the original post), "in karate you learn how to do the awesome or even gravity-defying kicks from video games, movies and cartoons" (again, mentioned in the original post), "In karate you learn how to throw fireballs", "karate black belts must register their fists as deadly weapons", "karate can teach you how to kill your opponent in one strike" or "if it doesn't require you to wear a kimono (apparently that's how most karatekas refer to their gis), then it's not a martial art". And these are just the ones that came into my mind right now.



Only art I know of where they refer to the uniform as a kimono is Brazilian Jiu Jitsu.


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## Xue Sheng (Nov 18, 2013)

vladone97 said:


> 10 years in JKD and 2 years in the rest of them.



So you re a JKD person that has done some Chinese martial arts forms from various styles.

Thanks


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## MJS (Nov 18, 2013)

vladone97 said:


> Why does everyone praise karate? Not as in "karate is the best and no other style compares to it", but as in "when you say martial arts, you refer strictly to karate". I mean, most people think karate is the only martial art in this world. I do kung fu because I hate karate with all its stereotypes and misconceptions (such as the "karate chop" thing, or "knife hand", for those who know it's not specific to karate). Some examples of what I mean:
> 
> Some of my younger friends know that I've been doing kung fu since I was 5. One day, we were all doing some "sparring" matches (light to no contact, of course). At first, one of them said "Whoever doesn't know karate at all, raise your hands" (most of them would use only the moves they saw in cartoons and video games). I raised my hand. And she said "I thought you've been doing karate since you were 5".
> Another younger firend of mine doesn't do any martial art, but thinks any kick that looks awesome is karate. For example, whenever we meet (it's not very often), she asks me "Can you show me those awesome karate moves of yours?". Every time, I explain her the differences between kung fu and karate (and I think it's not hard to understand that they are completely opposite styles), and every time she forgets. Also, her godbrother does kickboxing, and she asks him the same thing.
> ...



In a nutshell, I'd say 99.9% of it comes down to people just being uneducated about the arts. The average non martial artist probably isn't going to know the difference between Kenpo and TKD, nor would they have a clue as to what JKD or Ninjutsu is.  So, the end result?  People just lump everything in the "Karate" category.


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## Steve (Nov 18, 2013)

What makes people stupid?  Genetics.

But, regarding the use of Karate as a generic term for martial arts, does this really still happen?  I haven't run across that in a LONG time.  

If anything, I get, "Oh, you train in brazilian Jiu Jitsu?  My [dad/brother/uncle] is a 3rd degree black belt in American Kenpo/Wing Chun/Judo."  It doesn't bother me at all.  I just see it as a way for people to try and establish some common ground.  Helps people get along.


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## Daniel Sullivan (Nov 18, 2013)

vladone97 said:


> Why does everyone praise karate?



Because they think it's cool and they like Chuck Norris, Dolph Lundgren, the Karate Kid franchise, and the Power Rangers.



vladone97 said:


> Not as in "karate is the best and no other style compares to it", but as in "when you say martial arts, you refer strictly to karate". I mean, most people think karate is the only martial art in this world.


That isn't praising karate.  That is use of the word as a category for Asian striking arts that utilize a similar skill set.  It's the same reason that people called a lot of Chinese empty hand styles boxing.  They don't confuse it with Western boxing, but fist fighting equated to boxing.  If the term kickboxing had existed at the time, they probably would have used that instead.



vladone97 said:


> *I do kung fu because I hate karate *with all its stereotypes and misconceptions (such as the "karate chop" thing, or "knife hand", for those who know it's not specific to karate).


No offense, but the attitude you are displaying is as ignorant as that of the people you criticize.  You practice one art because you hate another art because you don't practice it and it has stereotypes?  Is that really why you chose a CMA?  Anyway, CMA has tons of stereotypes, arguably more than karate, depending on where you are or what era you grew up in. 




vladone97 said:


> Some of my younger friends know that I've been doing kung fu since I was 5. One day, we were all doing some "sparring" matches (light to no contact, of course). At first, one of them said "Whoever doesn't know karate at all, raise your hands" (most of them would use only the moves they saw in cartoons and video games). I raised my hand. And she said "I thought you've been doing karate since you were 5".


Again, generic use of the term to describe Asian striking arts.  Given that the original kanji for karate translates as 'China hand,' it might not be as inappropriate (or stupid) as you think.  Given that the kanji used was changed to one that was phonetically the same but which means 'empty hand,' you have the basis for the word's use as a generic term.

If you want to get into describing a specific style, you would need to differentiate between Okinawan and Japanese karate, and then between differing ryu of each.  



vladone97 said:


> Another younger firend of mine doesn't do any martial art, but thinks any kick that looks awesome is karate. For example, whenever we meet (it's not very often), she asks me "Can you show me those awesome karate moves of yours?". Every time, I explain her the differences between kung fu and karate (and I think it's not hard to understand that they are completely opposite styles), and every time she forgets. Also, her godbrother does kickboxing, and she asks him the same thing.



I'm noticing a trend here: younger friends.  Also, again, use of a generic term to describe Asian fighting styles.  Also, you say that karate and kung fu are opposite styles.  Since you're on a terminology soapbox, lets start with this:  Kung fu isn't a style.  Technically, neither is karate.  They're broad categories that encompass a large number of systems.   Again, if you want to go into differences between styles, you'd need to actually get further in than karate vs. kung fu, such as Northern Praying Mantis vs. Goju Ryu.  

And can you explain the difference between what you practice and "karate?"  Do you know enough about karate to identify different ryu and to actually pick out the differences.  Incidentally, since we're on the topic of terminology, it is unlikely that karate is actually "opposite" to what you practice.  It may be associated with a completely different nation, but that doesn't make it its opposite.  Anymore than Shotokan is opposite to boxing.




vladone97 said:


> Even one of the famous people from my country (Romania to be exact) said in an interview or something "I was a real tomboy when I was a child. I used to do jiu-jitsu because my childhood was full of Chinese movies with karate". (Seriously? "Chinese movies with karate"?). And to cap it all, she made a reference to Bruce Lee (I don't remember exactly what she said about him, though). Bruce Lee, the creator of Jeet Kune Do!


Translation: She took up the martial arts because she was inspired by Chinese movies and Bruce Lee.  Sounds like everyone who took up a martial art in the seventies.  Could also be that someone told her that it was karate.  Or that she's relating how she saw it as a child?  And whatever she said about Bruce Lee that seems to have 'capped it all' you don't even remember, so why bring it up?  



vladone97 said:


> So, for short, what makes people so stupid? Is it because of TV shows like "Kickin' it", which is about some teens who do karate together but make references to all martial arts? Or is it just something like "if I've never heard of something, then it doesn't exist"?


Generic word to describe Asian striking arts with similar skill sets.  Just because someone practices a martial art does not mean that they're educated about other arts.  It also doesn't make them stupid.


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## Tenacious_Red (Nov 18, 2013)

It's the same thing as calling every soda pop a , "coke" for coca-cola, but they're not...but it's the most advertised and purchased drink--therefore a sprite, mountain dew, fanta and all others are a, "coke." We can thank the media, marketing and advertising.
Also I would say, "stupid"...just ignorance. Educate them, no matter how many times it takes


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## Dinkydoo (Nov 18, 2013)

Just correct them politely and move on. 

Like others, I'm not sure how you've come to the conclusion that "Kung Fu and Karate are opposites.". Styles of CMA alone can differ significantly to other systems within the same umbrella. I believe the same goes for Karate.


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## RTKDCMB (Nov 18, 2013)

Basically I don't really care what other people call the martial art I do, I know what it is called and that is good enough for me.


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## pgsmith (Nov 18, 2013)

vladone97 said:


> I only give my friends explainations in a manner that's easy to understand. All I tell them is that kung fu has fluid movements while karate is more like stop and go. Yet, they don't understand. So I'm asking again, what makes them so stupid that they don't understand this (especially the ones who study karate, since they should have a starting point in making the comparison)? Also, I live in Romania, not in the US, so I didn't know about the Judo instructor part.



I believe that it is the same sort of stupidity that makes people get upset when others don't think the way they do.  
Why does it matter to you what others say? Are you practicing martial arts so others will be impressed? Are you upset because these other people (who are so stupid) seem more impressed with karate than with whatever it is you are practicing? 

Expecting other people to care about the same things that you care about is non-productive. It will only make others think you are a jerk when you complain at them about it. Do what you do for yourself, and learn to value yourself based upon your own thoughts and ideas. It is tough to do at your age and will take practice, but will serve you much better throughout your life.

Good luck!


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## vladone97 (Nov 18, 2013)

K-man said:


> I have been following this discussion with interest but this comment has spurred me into action. First, a quick question. What do you consider the main difference between Kung Fu and Karate? I take it from the comment above that you feel they are completely opposite style. Then another question. Just how do you explain the difference in an easy to understand manner?
> :asian:


Easy to understand:Kung fu has fluid movements which are usually circular while karate has stop and go which are usually straightforward.
Complete explaination:First of all, external kung fu requires more agility and flexibility than karate. As for internal kung fu, it focuses mainly on breath-movement coordination rather than physical abilities (so it's useful if you're not really the stronget or fastest fighter). Both of them have more complex movements than karate (as stated above). Not to mention that since the movements are more circular, you have more attack variation in kung fu and it's also easier to trick your opponent (it's easy to predict a straight punch, but with the complex movements from kung fu, the opponent will hardly know what to expect).


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## Daniel Sullivan (Nov 18, 2013)

vladone97 said:


> Easy to understand:Kung fu has fluid movements which are usually circular while karate has stop and go which are usually straightforward.
> Complete explaination:First of all, external kung fu requires more agility and flexibility than karate. As for internal kung fu, it focuses mainly on breath-movement coordination rather than physical abilities (so it's useful if you're not really the stronget or fastest fighter). Both of them have more complex movements than karate (as stated above). Not to mention that since the movements are more circular, you have more attack variation in kung fu and it's also easier to trick your opponent (it's easy to predict a straight punch, but with the complex movements from kung fu, the opponent will hardly know what to expect).


Complete?  Hardly.

Which style of kung fu (internal and exteranal are not styles)?  They're not all variations of one art.  

And more to the point, which ryu of karate?  Okinawan or Japanese? Or even Korean?  Some ryu have circular movements, others are more linear.  Are you including kenpo?  How about "Korean Karate" such as Tang Su Do and Chun kuk do?  Again, they're not all variations of one art.  Your assessment tells me that your knowledge of karate is severely lacking.  

Your assessment doesn't tell anyone anything except that you think your style is better based on not knowing anything about another group of styles.  You've not only not educated the person you're talking to, but you've actually misinformed them, making them now more ignorant than they were before they talked to you.


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## Xue Sheng (Nov 18, 2013)

vladone97 said:


> Easy to understand:Kung fu has fluid movements which are usually circular while karate has stop and go which are usually straightforward.
> Complete explaination:First of all, external kung fu requires more agility and flexibility than karate. As for internal kung fu, it focuses mainly on breath-movement coordination rather than physical abilities (so it's useful if you're not really the stronget or fastest fighter). Both of them have more complex movements than karate (as stated above). Not to mention that since the movements are more circular, you have more attack variation in kung fu and it's also easier to trick your opponent (it's easy to predict a straight punch, but with the complex movements from kung fu, the opponent will hardly know what to expect).



You may want to look into Xingyiquan (an internal CMA) before you go with that one and you may also want to check out a seminar with Fumio Demura sometime and watch what he can do with a vertical circle


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## WaterGal (Nov 18, 2013)

Steve said:


> But, regarding the use of Karate as a generic term for martial arts, does this really still happen?  I haven't run across that in a LONG time.



Oh yeah.  I mean, I've only encountered it among people that aren't familiar with martial arts, but at least once a month we get someone coming into the school saying, "so you guys do karate, right?", or "I want to sign my kid up for karate".  I've taken to telling them that Taekwondo is the Korean version of karate, sigh. But I still won't put up a sign that says "karate" like some of the other (non-karate) schools around here.


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## K-man (Nov 18, 2013)

vladone97 said:


> Easy to understand:Kung fu has fluid movements which are usually circular while karate has stop and go which are usually straightforward.
> Complete explaination:First of all, external kung fu requires more agility and flexibility than karate. As for internal kung fu, it focuses mainly on breath-movement coordination rather than physical abilities (so it's useful if you're not really the stronget or fastest fighter). Both of them have more complex movements than karate (as stated above). Not to mention that since the movements are more circular, you have more attack variation in kung fu and it's also easier to trick your opponent (it's easy to predict a straight punch, but with the complex movements from kung fu, the opponent will hardly know what to expect).


I thought you might say that. 
It just shows that you have as little knowledge of karate as you accuse others of having of Kung Fu. As was pointed out in another post there are big differences between Japanese and Okinawan karate. Although Goju  (hard and soft) is the only one with _soft_ in the name, all Okinawan styles include soft. If you came to one of my classes and we were not wearing karate gis then you would probably question what style of MA we were practising. Why? Because originally the early karate masters like Matsumura, Uechi and Higaonna went to China and studied Kung fu to a very high level. They took that back to Okinawa. 
All our training includes circular as well as linear. We spend a lot of time practising Tegumi which includes Chi Sau and Chi Na. And I teach internal as well as external energy. Your Kung fu is very similar to traditional Okinawan karate not the opposite that you have obviously seen in the Japanese based styles.
:asian:


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## vladone97 (Nov 18, 2013)

pgsmith said:


> I believe that it is the same sort of stupidity that makes people get upset when others don't think the way they do.
> Why does it matter to you what others say? Are you practicing martial arts so others will be impressed? Are you upset because these other people (who are so stupid) seem more impressed with karate than with whatever it is you are practicing?
> 
> Expecting other people to care about the same things that you care about is non-productive. It will only make others think you are a jerk when you complain at them about it. Do what you do for yourself, and learn to value yourself based upon your own thoughts and ideas. It is tough to do at your age and will take practice, but will serve you much better throughout your life.
> ...


I'm not upset and I definitely don't use martial arts to impress others. I only think that since they do karate, they should at least know something about it. Not to mention that they claim karate is better than any other style, for example kung fu, but they actually don't know anything about either of them. Imagine this: saying that something you don't know anything about is better than something else you don't know anything about and not knowing why it's better, just saying that it's better. Does it seem logical to you?


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## Dirty Dog (Nov 18, 2013)

vladone97 said:


> I'm not upset and I definitely don't use martial arts to impress others. I only think that since they do karate, they should at least know something about it. Not to mention that they claim karate is better than any other style, for example kung fu, but they actually don't know anything about either of them. Imagine this: saying that something you don't know anything about is better than something else you don't know anything about and not knowing why it's better, just saying that it's better. Does it seem logical to you?



Given your explanation of the differences, apparently they're not the only ones who are ignorant. Something you might want to consider.


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## vladone97 (Nov 18, 2013)

> No offense, but the attitude you are displaying is as ignorant as that of the people you criticize. You practice one art because you hate another art because you don't practice it and it has stereotypes? Is that really why you chose a CMA? Anyway, CMA has tons of stereotypes, arguably more than karate, depending on where you are or what era you grew up in.


I formulated that wrong. My mistake. I don't hate karate entirely. I onky hate what things like mcdojos turned it into. Also, I was talking about stereotypes taken to the extreme level of stupidity (see one of my other posts here).


> Translation: She took up the martial arts because she was inspired by Chinese movies and Bruce Lee. Sounds like everyone who took up a martial art in the seventies. Could also be that someone told her that it was karate. Or that she's relating how she saw it as a child? And whatever she said about Bruce Lee that seems to have 'capped it all' you don't even remember, so why bring it up?


To make things clear, she said something simillar to "Karate like Bruce Lee was doing in his movies" and something about him having created a new style of karate. And let's not forget that she said "Chinese movies with karate". Do I need to explain the problem in this?


> That isn't praising karate. That is use of the word as a category for Asian striking arts that utilize a similar skill set. It's the same reason that people called a lot of Chinese empty hand styles boxing. They don't confuse it with Western boxing, but fist fighting equated to boxing. If the term kickboxing had existed at the time, they probably would have used that instead.


Those who call Chinese empty hand styles "boxing" know what they mean by that. Those who call all martial arts "karate"  (or at least my friends who do this) really confuse one thing with another.


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## vladone97 (Nov 18, 2013)

Dirty Dog said:


> Given your explanation of the differences, apparently they're not the only ones who are ignorant. Something you might want to consider.


Unlike them, I've never said that one martial art is better than the others. I simply said I hate it because of what mcdojos turned it into.


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## vladone97 (Nov 18, 2013)

K-man said:


> I thought you might say that.
> It just shows that you have as little knowledge of karate as you accuse others of having of Kung Fu. As was pointed out in another post there are big differences between Japanese and Okinawan karate. Although Goju  (hard and soft) is the only one with _soft_ in the name, all Okinawan styles include soft. If you came to one of my classes and we were not wearing karate gis then you would probably question what style of MA we were practising. Why? Because originally the early karate masters like Matsumura, Uechi and Higaonna went to China and studied Kung fu to a very high level. They took that back to Okinawa.
> All our training includes circular as well as linear. We spend a lot of time practising Tegumi which includes Chi Sau and Chi Na. And I teach internal as well as external energy. Your Kung fu is very similar to traditional Okinawan karate not the opposite that you have obviously seen in the Japanese based styles.
> :asian:


When I explain this to my friends, I only talk about their styles. They showed me what they know and theirs are obviously Japanese. I thought you wanted me to tell you exactly what I usually tell them and what I would tell them if they could understand the easy version.


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## Dinkydoo (Nov 18, 2013)

But the 'Kung Fu' McDojos are ok?


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## Dirty Dog (Nov 18, 2013)

vladone97 said:


> When I explain this to my friends, I only talk about their styles. They showed me what they know and theirs are obviously Japanese. I thought you wanted me to tell you exactly what I usually tell them and what I would tell them if they could understand the easy version.



You've demonstrated that you don't understand then differences either, so how can you possibly explain them to someone else?
Given that your "training" hasn't included an actual instructor, do you think it's surprising that your understanding is lacking?


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## vladone97 (Nov 18, 2013)

Dirty Dog said:


> You've demonstrated that you don't understand then differences either, so how can you possibly explain them to someone else?
> Given that your "training" hasn't included an actual instructor, do you think it's surprising that your understanding is lacking?


I do understand the differences. Again, I thought you were asking me to say what I tell MY FRIENDS when I explain everything (because their styles are obviously Japanese, so I only focus on the aspects of Japanese karate), not testing me to check whether I knew them. And I've never trained with an actual instructor because I live in Romania, where it's impossible to find someone to teach me martial arts instead of trying to steal my money.


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## Xue Sheng (Nov 18, 2013)

Dirty Dog said:


> You've demonstrated that you don't understand then differences either, so how can you possibly explain them to someone else?
> Given that your "training" hasn't included an actual instructor, do you think it's surprising that your understanding is lacking?



WHAT!! :jaw-dropping: "training hasn't included an actual instructor" 


  JKD or "Kung Fu" or both?


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## vladone97 (Nov 18, 2013)

Dinkydoo said:


> But the 'Kung Fu' McDojos are ok?


As I've said before and I have to say again, karate has more stereotypes taken to the extreme level of stupidity than kung fu.


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## Dinkydoo (Nov 18, 2013)

vladone97 said:


> As I've said before and I have to say again, karate has more stereotypes taken to the extreme level of stupidity than kung fu.



Magical chi and flying aren't extreme stereotypes...?


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## Dirty Dog (Nov 18, 2013)

vladone97 said:


> I do understand the differences. Again, I thought you were asking me to say what I tell MY FRIENDS when I explain everything (because their styles are obviously Japanese, so I only focus on the aspects of Japanese karate), not testing me to check whether I knew them. And I've never trained with an actual instructor because I live in Romania, where it's impossible to find someone to teach me martial arts instead of trying to steal my money.



But, as has been pointed out (scroll up if you need to refresh your memory) what you tell your friends... is wrong.

Before you can educate others, you need to be educated. It's really that simple.

While books, videos and even YouTube can be valuable tools, they are no replacement for an actual instructor. Your posts in this thread only confirm this.


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## Dirty Dog (Nov 18, 2013)

Xue Sheng said:


> WHAT!! :jaw-dropping: "training hasn't included an actual instructor"
> 
> 
> JKD or "Kung Fu" or both?



According to his profile, he apparently is an expert YouTube surfer.


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## vladone97 (Nov 18, 2013)

Xue Sheng said:


> WHAT!! :jaw-dropping: "training hasn't included an actual instructor"
> 
> 
> JKD or "Kung Fu" or both?


I live in Romania. The best instructor I could find here was one who was teaching Japanese karate forms he was calling "Jeet Kune Do". I don't know whether it was because he knew I wanted to learn Jeet Kune Do and tried to convince me to give him my money or was simplly confusing one with another, but it did happen.


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## vladone97 (Nov 18, 2013)

Dinkydoo said:


> Like others, I'm not sure how you've come to the conclusion that "Kung Fu and Karate are opposites.". Styles of CMA alone can differ significantly to other systems within the same umbrella. I believe the same goes for Karate.


I'm saying that things specific to kung fu (fluidity of movements) are the opposites of the things specific to Japanese karate (lack of fluidity in movements)


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## vladone97 (Nov 18, 2013)

Dirty Dog said:


> According to his profile, he apparently is an expert YouTube surfer.


I train, okay? It's just that I have to train on my own because, as I've said TWICE, I can't find anyone to train me propperly.


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## Dirty Dog (Nov 18, 2013)

vladone97 said:


> I'm saying that things specific to kung fu (fluidity of movements) are the opposites of the things specific to Japanese karate (lack of fluidity in movements)



Wow. 
And there you have it. Proof positive that you cannot effectively study martial arts without an instructor.
Which YouBoob video told you this bit of tripe?


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## vladone97 (Nov 18, 2013)

Dirty Dog said:


> Wow.
> And there you have it. Proof positive that you cannot effectively study martial arts without an instructor.
> Which YouBoob video told you this bit of tripe?


I'm trying my best to learn on my own. What do you expect me to do? Get an aeroplane ticket to China and go to the Shaolin temple?


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## Dinkydoo (Nov 18, 2013)

vladone97 said:


> I'm saying that things specific to kung fu (fluidity of movements) are the opposites of the things specific to Japanese karate (lack of fluidity in movements)



I'm quite certain that some Karate is quite 'soft' and 'round' looking - I know very little of Karate myself (having never trained in it) though. The two CMAs that I currently train in are about as different from each other as this "Karate" that you're referring to.


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## vladone97 (Nov 18, 2013)

Dinkydoo said:


> Magical chi and flying aren't extreme stereotypes...?


I've never said that kung fu had no stupid stereotypes. I just said that karate had more of them. For example, the magical chi thing exists in karate as well. Some people think that's what you need in order to be able to do a knife hand strike.


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## Dinkydoo (Nov 18, 2013)

vladone97 said:


> I'm trying my best to learn on my own. What do you expect me to do? Get an aeroplane ticket to China and go to the Shaolin temple?



Find a teacher (any is better than none in the beginning) and learn from them. 

Doesn't have to be a CMA either; you can learn good fundamentals from lots of MAs. One of my training buddies did Karate for about 5 years before joining the Mantis club I train at. I joined a month after he did coming from another MA background and after a few months we're both racing through the syllabus at the same rate, because we both had a good foundation in other styles.


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## Dinkydoo (Nov 18, 2013)

vladone97 said:


> I've never said that kung fu had no stupid stereotypes. I just said that karate had more of them. For example, the magical chi thing exists in karate as well. Some people think that's what you need in order to be able to do a knife hand strike.



The point is, they both have silly stereotypes and there are charlatans out their claiming to be masters in both handing out sashes and belts but this doesn't make either one worse a MA than the other.


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## Dirty Dog (Nov 18, 2013)

vladone97 said:


> I'm trying my best to learn on my own. What do you expect me to do? Get an aeroplane ticket to China and go to the Shaolin temple?



Not shockingly, a quick application of my Google-Fu skills (which I learned without a trip to Oregon to visit the temple) returns an extensive list of schools in Romania that teach Chinese martial arts.
Without a qualified instructor, the things you think you're learning are going to be badly flawed. For example: how do you know if the videos you're using are any good? How do you know the things they're "teaching" are accurate? Without an instructor, how do you know if you're doing these things correctly (assuming, for the moment, that you've actually stumbled across a video that isn't itself horribly flawed)?



Dinkydoo said:


> I'm quite certain that some Karate is quite 'soft' and 'round' looking - I know very little of Karate myself (having never trained in it) though. The two CMAs that I currently train in are about as different from each other as this "Karate" that you're referring to.



You don't really know anything about Karate, but you feel qualified to tell people how it differs from YouTube-Fu. Do you see the problem?


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## vladone97 (Nov 18, 2013)

Dinkydoo said:


> I'm quite certain that some Karate is quite 'soft' and 'round' looking - I know very little of Karate myself (having never trained in it) though. The two CMAs that I currently train in are about as different from each other as this "Karate" that you're referring to.


Round doesn't necessarily mean fluid. As for the soft part, do you mean that they require less strength or that they help you concentrate (like Tai Chi does, for example)?


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## vladone97 (Nov 18, 2013)

> Not shockingly, a quick application of my Google-Fu skills (which I learned without a trip to Oregon to visit the temple) returns an extensive list of schools in Romania that teach Chinese martial arts.
> Without a qualified instructor, the things you think you're learning are going to be badly flawed. For example: how do you know if the videos you're using are any good? How do you know the things they're "teaching" are accurate? Without an instructor, how do you know if you're doing these things correctly (assuming, for the moment, that you've actually stumbled across a video that isn't itself horribly flawed)?


I didn't say they were the best lessons. I would rather learn it the wrong way for free and try my best to figure out the correct way than pay to learn the same wrong way and get to think it's the right way.


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## Dinkydoo (Nov 18, 2013)

Dirty Dog said:


> You don't really know anything about Karate, but you feel qualified to tell people how it differs from YouTube-Fu. Do you see the problem?



I've seen some Karate videos that contained those elusive fluid movements that our Romanian friend was saying makes Kung Fu so different. In terms of Karate, about all I'm qualified to do is say how the thread starter is incorrect because I've seen some videos that provide evidence to the contrary. I don't think I need a certificate to notice how fluid something looks.


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## vladone97 (Nov 18, 2013)

Dinkydoo said:


> I've seen some Karate videos that contained those elusive fluid movements that our Romanian friend was saying makes Kung Fu so different. In terms of Karate, about all I'm qualified to do is say how the thread starter is incorrect because I've seen some videos that provide evidence to the contrary. I don't think I need a certificate to notice how fluid something looks.


Would you mind giving us the links to those videos?


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## donald1 (Nov 18, 2013)

vladone97 said:


> I'm talking about people who actually study martial arts, not random idiots who have only seen a couple of movies and think they know what you're doing better than you know.



Yes that also happens,  usually when people get higher in rank.  I remember this good example of this one time two years ago at an event a underbelt who was correcting people a couple times the upperbelts.  I think that comes from a conceited,  and with that you can't correct vainglorious but you can help them see the error in their way 
(apologies for not understanding the question in the first place)


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## Dinkydoo (Nov 18, 2013)

vladone97 said:


> Round doesn't necessarily mean fluid. As for the soft part, do you mean that they require less strength or that they help you concentrate (like Tai Chi does, for example)?



They appeared to use soft, yielding techniques followed up with hard external force. 

I've no idea the amount of strength they required; you said that Karate didn't have anything like that at all, and I said that I'd seen more than one video that suggested otherwise.


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## vladone97 (Nov 18, 2013)

Dinkydoo said:


> The point is, they both have silly stereotypes and there are charlatans out their claiming to be masters in both handing out sashes and belts but this doesn't make either one worse a MA than the other.


How many times do I have to repeat myself? I'm not saying that one is worse than the other. I just don't like one of them.


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## vladone97 (Nov 18, 2013)

donald1 said:


> Yes that also happens,  usually when people get higher in rank.  I remember this good example of this one time two years ago at an event a underbelt who was correcting people a couple times the upperbelts.  I think that comes from a conceited,  and with that you can't correct vainglorious but you can help them see the error in their way
> (apologies for not understanding the question in the first place)


Do you know what I like here? I like that you're the only one who hasn't insulted me yet.


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## Dinkydoo (Nov 18, 2013)

vladone97 said:


> Would you mind giving us the links to those videos?



I wouldn't mind at all but I didn't save a note of them.  Check out some Shuri-te stuff - I think that's what I was looking at, but it was a while ago.


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## Dinkydoo (Nov 18, 2013)

vladone97 said:


> How many times do I have to repeat myself? I'm not saying that one is worse than the other. I just don't like one of them.



But you don't like one of them based on things that both collections of martial arts have.....which doesn't make sense.


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## Touch Of Death (Nov 18, 2013)

vladone97 said:


> Do you know what I like here? I like that you're the only one who hasn't insulted me yet.


If I insulted you I'm sorry. It's my Karate way rearing its ugly head.


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## vladone97 (Nov 18, 2013)

Dinkydoo said:


> I wouldn't mind at all but I didn't save a note of them.  Check out some Shuri-te stuff - I think that's what I was looking at, but it was a while ago.


Well, I must admit that there is fluidity in this, but you must also admit that kung fu has more fluidity, most of it coming from the stances. Especially Lian Huan Quan.


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## Dinkydoo (Nov 18, 2013)

I have no idea how much more fluid all CMAs are than Karate, from what I've seen they 'probably' are, but I don't think generalising will improve either of our knowledge or understanding.


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## pgsmith (Nov 18, 2013)

vladone97 said:


> I'm not upset and I definitely don't use martial arts to impress others. I only think that since they do karate, they should at least know something about it. Not to mention that they claim karate is better than any other style, for example kung fu, but they actually don't know anything about either of them. Imagine this: saying that something you don't know anything about is better than something else you don't know anything about and not knowing why it's better, just saying that it's better. Does it seem logical to you?



It doesn't seem very logical to me, but it does seem to be exactly what you are doing in this thread. All you know about martial arts is what you've managed to learn yourself, on your own. You've no idea whether it's accurate or totally wrong, you only have guesses. You then start a thread insulting other people because they don't understand what you _think_ you do about martial arts. Yep, it definitely doesn't sound very logical to me.

Personally, I think that you could have gained a lot of insight into what you are doing if you had approached things here differently. There are a number of very experienced practitioners of the traditional Chinese arts that post here. However, all you seem to have done since you arrived is to rant and complain. I've not seen any questions or thoughts, just complaints and rationalizations.

My advice is to take a deep breath and start over from the beginning, with the understanding that most of the people you are arguing with here have training uniforms much older than you. 

Good luck!


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## vladone97 (Nov 18, 2013)

Dinkydoo said:


> But you don't like one of them based on things that both collections of martial arts have.....which doesn't make sense.


Again, I'm repeating myself. Karate has more extreme stereotypes than kung fu.
But that's not the whole thing. First of all, traditional kung fu has no belts. Just training. Karate belts are simply a way to make students keep taking classes until they get the black belt and show that they are masters (which they usually aren't. Another strategy is to give black belts earlier than students deserve them so they won't quit because it takes too long). That's how it happens lately. And before you relate this to me in any ways, I've never claimed to be a kung fu master. Not to mention that no instructor=no belts.
Secondly, there's what I like to call "karate logic". By that, I mean that karate as most dojos teach it now makes you think a real fight is much easier than it actually is and, thus, it won't prepare you for one. Like "Someone wants to attack you with a baseball bat? No problem. Just block the hit with your bare hands and counter. Don't worry. He won't punch you with his other hand". Before you say anything, there is the problem with the force generated by the bat, which greatly opposes (and usually outmatches) the force generated by your block. There actually is a karate technique in which you are supposed to catch the bat with one hand. THE BAT! WITH ONE HAND! There's absolutely no chance to do that in a real fight without extreme training. And the worst part, after you catch the bat, you have to break it in half (obviously with the other hand, which is also bare) and then hit the opponent's head with your half of the bat. The last step wouldn't be a problem if the first two steps were possible.


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## frank raud (Nov 18, 2013)

vladone97 said:


> Again, I'm repeating myself. Karate has more extreme stereotypes than kung fu.
> But that's not the whole thing. First of all, traditional kung fu has no belts. Just training. Karate belts are simply a way to make students keep taking classes until they get the black belt and show that they are masters (which they usually aren't. Another strategy is to give black belts earlier than students deserve them so they won't quit because it takes too long). That's how it happens lately. And before you relate this to me in any ways, I've never claimed to be a kung fu master. Not to mention that no instructor=no belts.
> Secondly, there's what I like to call "karate logic". By that, I mean that karate as most dojos teach it now makes you think a real fight is much easier than it actually is and, thus, it won't prepare you for one. Like "Someone wants to attack you with a baseball bat? No problem. Just block the hit with your bare hands and counter. Don't worry. He won't punch you with his other hand". Before you say anything, there is the problem with the force generated by the bat, which greatly opposes (and usually outmatches) the force generated by your block. There actually is a karate technique in which you are supposed to catch the bat with one hand. THE BAT! WITH ONE HAND! There's absolutely no chance to do that in a real fight without extreme training. And the worst part, after you catch the bat, you have to break it in half (obviously with the other hand, which is also bare) and then hit the opponent's head with your half of the bat. The last step wouldn't be a problem if the first two steps were possible.


 
Please forgive me, I have only been training in Japanese martial arts since 1983. In that time I have gone to multiple martial arts conventions where 30-50 instructors of various styles of karate, kung fu, jiu jitsu teach their particular style. Instructors from literally around the world, North America, Europe, Russia, Korea, Japan, China and Australia. I have trained with multiple Jeet Kune Do instructors(Dan Inosanto, Larry Hartsell and a variety of their students). I have never seen anything like you are claiming. I have seen baseball bats being broken by shin kicks. Where exactly have you seen(or only read in a book) about this karate technique with a baseball bat?


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## vladone97 (Nov 18, 2013)

pgsmith said:


> It doesn't seem very logical to me, but it does seem to be exactly what you are doing in this thread. All you know about martial arts is what you've managed to learn yourself, on your own. You've no idea whether it's accurate or totally wrong, you only have guesses. You then start a thread insulting other people because they don't understand what you _think_ you do about martial arts. Yep, it definitely doesn't sound very logical to me.
> 
> Personally, I think that you could have gained a lot of insight into what you are doing if you had approached things here differently. There are a number of very experienced practitioners of the traditional Chinese arts that post here. However, all you seem to have done since you arrived is to rant and complain. I've not seen any questions or thoughts, just complaints and rationalizations.
> 
> ...


If I look for an instructor here in Romania, I'd probably know as much as I know right now. Maybe even less. Because they usually don't teach anything. But I think it would be nice if people from around here tried to explain why I'm wrong instead of just saying "hey, mr self-taught, you're wrong" if they see that I'm misinformed. For example, I learnt that there are really fluid karate styles as well, but I still think kung fu is more fluid. I might be wrong about it. If I am, why? Is there the same ammount of fluidity in them? Or, if there are any extreme stereotypes in kung fu besides the ones I've already named, which are they? Or maybe the most important one, what exactly is wrong with my comparison between kung fu and Japanese karate (besided the part with opposite styles, which is currently just an opinion)? What would a correct comparison look like?


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## vladone97 (Nov 18, 2013)

frank raud said:


> Please forgive me, I have only been training in Japanese martial arts since 1983. In that time I have gone to multiple martial arts conventions where 30-50 instructors of various styles of karate, kung fu, jiu jitsu teach their particular style. Instructors from literally around the world, North America, Europe, Russia, Korea, Japan, China and Australia. I have trained with multiple Jeet Kune Do instructors(Dan Inosanto, Larry Hartsell and a variety of their students). I have never seen anything like you are claiming. I have seen baseball bats being broken by shin kicks. Where exactly have you seen(or only read in a book) about this karate technique with a baseball bat?


It was in a video demonstrating the worst self defence techniques. That instructor really knew what he was doing because he was explaining the obvious truth that the tehnique is impossible. You must have had good instructors as well. But trust me, the bad ones who only want money will teach it.


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## frank raud (Nov 18, 2013)

vladone97 said:


> It was in a video demonstrating the worst self defence techniques. That instructor really knew what he was doing because he was explaining the obvious truth that the tehnique is impossible. You must have had good instructors as well. But trust me, the bad ones who only want money will teach it.



So, no way to say it is an actual technique in karate, as demonstrated by a recognised authority, as opposed to an over the top exaggeration of a technique by someone claiming it is a ludicrous technique? Was the instructor able to pull it off in the video?


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## vladone97 (Nov 18, 2013)

frank raud said:


> So, no way to say it is an actual technique in karate, as demonstrated by a recognised authority, as opposed to an over the top exaggeration of a technique by someone claiming it is a ludicrous technique? Was the instructor able to pull it off in the video?


The instructor was explaining that nobody can pull it off. See for yourself. I found the video.


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## donald1 (Nov 18, 2013)

vladone97 said:


> Do you know what I like here? I like that you're the only one who hasn't insulted me yet.



One of the rules that I was told when I started out was never to argue with an upperbelt no matter who is right 
I don't know you nor your rank,  but it's best to show respect to all and that's what I intend doing here too (your also an individual and like any individual respect is given) 

Best of luck in your chosen style


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## frank raud (Nov 18, 2013)

vladone97 said:


> The instructor was explaining that nobody can pull it off. See for yourself. I found the video.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Xue Sheng (Nov 18, 2013)

vladone97 said:


> I live in Romania. The best instructor I could find here was one who was teaching Japanese karate forms he was calling "Jeet Kune Do". I don't know whether it was because he knew I wanted to learn Jeet Kune Do and tried to convince me to give him my money or was simplly confusing one with another, but it did happen.



So..... your 10 years of JKD may or may not be Karate.......and now your upset because someone called what you do karate....that may or may not be karate

As for the Bajiquan, Praying Mantis, Lian Huan Quan, Changquan, Tai Chi...well


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## K-man (Nov 18, 2013)

vladone97 said:


> I've never said that kung fu had no stupid stereotypes. I just said that karate had more of them. For example, the magical chi thing exists in karate as well. Some people think that's what you need in order to be able to do a knife hand strike.



Oh boy! You haven't seen traditional karate and now Chi is 'magical'. Chi isn't magical and it is an integral part of traditional martial art, both Chinese and Japanese. There is always robust discussion when Chi comes up in posts but believe me, Chi is real. 



vladone97 said:


> I didn't say they were the best lessons. I would rather learn it the wrong way for free and try my best to figure out the correct way than pay to learn the same wrong way and get to think it's the right way.


This is not the most clever way to learn. About 50 years ago I taught myself to snow ski. It took another 10 years to 'unlearn' what I had taught myself. Same thing applies with martial arts. There are certain underlying principles. If you get them wrong it will take a long time to 'unlearn' them too.



vladone97 said:


> Would you mind giving us the links to those videos?



http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FqTgZ9y3za0&desktop_uri=/watch?v=FqTgZ9y3za0



vladone97 said:


> Do you know what I like here? I like that you're the only one who hasn't insulted me yet.



Count me in! I haven't insulted many people on this forum, I hope. 



vladone97 said:


> Again, I'm repeating myself. Karate has more extreme stereotypes than kung fu.
> 
> I think you need to give examples before you can make this type of statement.
> 
> ...





vladone97 said:


> The instructor was explaining that nobody can pull it off. See for yourself. I found the video.


Yep! And he was also explaining that they were the two most stupid techniques he had ever seen proposed. Oh! ... and, as I said above, I have never seen a karate technique to catch a baseball bat. Maybe that's because I come from Australia and we don't play much baseball. Do you think we could do the same thing with a cricket bat? 
:asian:


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## Daniel Sullivan (Nov 18, 2013)

vladone97 said:


> I do understand the differences. Again, I thought you were asking me to say what I tell MY FRIENDS when I explain everything (because their styles are obviously Japanese, so I only focus on the aspects of Japanese karate), not testing me to check whether I knew them. *And I've never trained with an actual instructor* because I live in Romania, where it's impossible to find someone to teach me martial arts instead of trying to steal my money.



Then you haven't done ten years of JKD or any Chinese styles.


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## Daniel Sullivan (Nov 18, 2013)

vladone97 said:


> I train, okay? It's just that I have to train on my own because, as I've said TWICE, I can't find anyone to train me propperly.


And training is a good thing.  If you can't find an instructor then you do what you have to do.  I don't know what the MA landscape in Romania is like, but lack of available schools can certainly be frustrating.

While I won't make any value judgments regarding your training, you shouldn't claim to have ten years in JKD and two years in two other Chinese styles when you have little to no formal training in anything.  

The fact that you're training and are here striking up conversation is a good thing.

But you shouldn't go making value judgements and technical assessments of arts you've never studied on an internet forum.  You clearly do not know much, if anything about karate ryu to make the statements that you make.


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## vladone97 (Nov 19, 2013)

Xue Sheng said:


> So..... your 10 years of JKD may or may not be Karate.......and now your upset because someone called what you do karate....that may or may not be karate
> 
> As for the Bajiquan, Praying Mantis, Lian Huan Quan, Changquan, Tai Chi...well


Have you read my previous posts here as well or are you just trolling?


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## vladone97 (Nov 19, 2013)

> Oh boy! You haven't seen traditional karate and now Chi is 'magical'. Chi isn't magical and it is an integral part of traditional martial art, both Chinese and Japanese. There is always robust discussion when Chi comes up in posts but believe me, Chi is real.


I was just giving an example of a stupid seterotype. That doesn't mean I believe it. Actually, why would I believe it if I call them stupid?


----------



## RTKDCMB (Nov 19, 2013)

vladone97 said:


> Do you know what I like here? I like that you're the only one who hasn't insulted me yet.



Give it a minute.


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## skribs (Nov 19, 2013)

I think "Karate" is a valid word to use for generic martial arts, especially most Asian martial arts.  According to the infallible source (Wikipedia), Karate was originally written as "Chinese hand" and later changed to "Empty hand".  That means "Karate" means "Martial Art From China", and therefore falls into the realm of Kung Fu.  Therefore what you hate is what you love in spite of what you hate.


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## vladone97 (Nov 19, 2013)

> I think you need to give examples before you can make this type of statement.


I gave examples. Check some of my previous posts here.


> &#8203;And with the type of instruction you are receiving you will never be a master.


I'm not even expecting to become a master any time soon. I'm simply trying to learn as much as I can.


> I think you are confusing things here. That is not 'karate logic' at all. In fact I have never heard of it happening like that in any style of MA.


When I say "karate logic", I mean karate as it's taught in mcdojos.


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## vladone97 (Nov 19, 2013)

Daniel Sullivan said:


> But you shouldn't go making value judgements and technical assessments of arts you've never studied on an internet forum.  You clearly do not know much, if anything about karate ryu to make the statements that you make.


My comparison between kung fu and karate is based on what I've researched. Anywhere I was looking, the main difference was always presented as circularity vs. linearity.


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## vladone97 (Nov 19, 2013)

Daniel Sullivan said:


> Then you haven't done ten years of JKD or any Chinese styles.


Suppose you've learnt everything you know about computers on your own, using the attempt-failure principle. Does that mean you can't actually use a computer?


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## Gnarlie (Nov 19, 2013)

vladone97 said:


> Suppose you've learnt everything you know about computers on your own, using the attempt-failure principle. Does that mean you can't actually use a computer?



It means you learn slowly and the end product may not be the most efficient and effective way of achieving the desired result. 

Learning to use a computer by trial and error is completely different as with a computer there are an artificially limited number of possible outcomes.

A fight is not limited in the same way and such inefficiency may garner rather undesirable results.

If you're not learning with an instructor, you're not learning anything worth learning. 

Gnarlie


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## K-man (Nov 19, 2013)

vladone97 said:


> Have you read my previous posts here as well or are you just trolling?


Ouch! *Xue* an Internet troll? Really? He's been here nearly eight years and I've never seen him accused of trolling before.

Let's see ... An Internet troll ...




> A person whose sole purpose in life is to seek out people to argue with on the internet over extremely trivial issues. Such arguments can happen on blogs, Facebook, Myspace and a host of others.





> An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum or chat room, with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.





> In Internet slang, a troll (/&#712;tro&#650;l/, /&#712;tr&#594;l/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a forum, chat room, or blog), either accidentally or with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.


Now I ask you, how much of that applies to *Xue*, or should that be *You*?
:asian:


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## Dinkydoo (Nov 19, 2013)

vladone97 said:


> Suppose you've learnt everything you know about computers on your own, using the attempt-failure principle. Does that mean you can't actually use a computer?



I tried to learn programming by myself. I picked up a lot, but my knowledge was nowhere near complete and I frequently did things really inefficiently (or just plain wrong) because I hadn't been guided by someone who had been there, done that and bought the t-shirt for several years. I didn't REALLY start learning until I began the software engineering and development degree.


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## ballen0351 (Nov 19, 2013)

http://www.iogkf.com/countries/Romania.html

You wanna do some real research and training on Karate give these guys a try.  All that other nonsense you think you know about Karate is just wrong. 




vladone97 said:


> My comparison between kung fu and karate is based on what I've researched. Anywhere I was looking, the main difference was always presented as circularity vs. linearity.


----------



## Daniel Sullivan (Nov 19, 2013)

vladone97 said:


> My comparison between kung fu and karate is based on what I've researched. Anywhere I was looking, the main difference was always presented as circularity vs. linearity.


Your research is lacking.  Not all karate ryu are linear and not all kung fu styles are circular.

Your posts show that you really don't have a good understanding of what kung fu and karate are.  You're self trained, and maybe you can fight very well.  But that doesn't make you an authority on Asian fighting styles.



vladone97 said:


> Suppose you've learnt everything you know about computers on your own, using the attempt-failure principle. Does that mean you can't actually use a computer?


It would not, anymore than learning everything you know about martial arts on your own, using the attempt-failure principle would mean that you can't actually fight.

But it also would not make me a programmer or technician either.  It wouldn't give me the depth of knowledge that a formally trained and certified programmer or technician would have.  

Being able to fight doesn't make you a JKD practitioner (though you may be trying to apply Bruce Lee's philosophy to your attempt-failure principle), and it certainly does not give you any time in a formal Chinese system.  

Again, you may be able to fight.  Being able to fight does not require you to have any formal training whatsoever.  And you may be able pick up techniques from videos, books, and others you practice with and incorporate them into what you do.  But again, that is not time in a system.  What you do may have merit and may work quite well, but it is not the same as actually having time in the systems you mentioned.  

Nor does it give you the knowledge to make the technical assessments that you're attempting to make.  Not because you can't fight, but because you don't have the exposure to the systems that you're comparing that would give you the ability to make those assessments.


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## Xue Sheng (Nov 19, 2013)

vladone97 said:


> Have you read my previous posts here as well or are you just trolling?



So if you don't like the statement so you go to name calling....

I read your post about Karate that may or may not be JKD..... if you do not know why do you expect others to know

As for the Chinese martial arts stuff.... my understanding here is that you are learning from YouTube. If that is the case, in my opinion, you are not really doing any of them.


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## MJS (Nov 19, 2013)

vladone97 said:


> I'm talking about people who actually study martial arts, not random idiots who have only seen a couple of movies and think they know what you're doing better than you know.



Yet one would assume that if someone is training, that they'd know a little something about the arts out there, or what they're training in, for that matter.


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## MJS (Nov 19, 2013)

vladone97 said:


> I'm trying my best to learn on my own. What do you expect me to do? Get an aeroplane ticket to China and go to the Shaolin temple?



Interestingly enough, doing a quick search online, I found Kyokushin.  
http://www.kyokushinkaikan.org/en/branch/europe.html

Oh, BTW, that isn't the only Kyokushin org. in your area.  

Hmm...Bujinkan
http://www.winjutsu.com/winlinks.html

I believe someone gave you info for Goju Ryu in your area.


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## MJS (Nov 19, 2013)

vladone97 said:


> I didn't say they were the best lessons. I would rather learn it the wrong way for free and try my best to figure out the correct way than pay to learn the same wrong way and get to think it's the right way.



Doesn't sound like a very productive way of learning, IMO.  I think you'd be better off learning from a quality dojo, rather than trying to figure out how to do something you don't know, on your own.  Just because I can pull out a cook book and follow directions, doesn't make me a master chef.


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## EddieCyrax (Nov 19, 2013)

Both Karate and Kung Fu are generic terms describing many MAs.

Why are you offended by uninformed people calling all MA karate, and not equally offended when they say kung fu.

I am sure you are not studying kung fu.  I am sure your style has a name.


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## nordin (Nov 19, 2013)

vladone97 said:


> Why does everyone praise karate? Not as in "karate is the best and no other style compares to it", but as in "when you say martial arts, you refer strictly to karate". I mean, most people think karate is the only martial art in this world. I do kung fu because I hate karate with all its stereotypes and misconceptions (such as the "karate chop" thing, or "knife hand", for those who know it's not specific to karate). Some examples of what I mean:
> 
> Some of my younger friends know that I've been doing kung fu since I was 5. One day, we were all doing some "sparring" matches (light to no contact, of course). At first, one of them said "Whoever doesn't know karate at all, raise your hands" (most of them would use only the moves they saw in cartoons and video games). I raised my hand. And she said "I thought you've been doing karate since you were 5".
> Another younger firend of mine doesn't do any martial art, but thinks any kick that looks awesome is karate. For example, whenever we meet (it's not very often), she asks me "Can you show me those awesome karate moves of yours?". Every time, I explain her the differences between kung fu and karate (and I think it's not hard to understand that they are completely opposite styles), and every time she forgets. Also, her godbrother does kickboxing, and she asks him the same thing.
> ...



I must say that you should keep on learning more about martial arts. You will see that a lot of things are NOT clear-cut. I am by no means expert or pro, but some years of reading and researching has taught me a lot about martial arts. Don't be upset about advice from forum members here. Many people here are very experienced and knowledgeable martial art practitioners. They can give you a lot of good tips to check out.

 That being said, I guess I get what you wanted to say in your original post. People tend to be ignorant regarding things they don't value. I have few friends that have hobbies I am not very interested in. Despite that, I have learned some interesting bits just by listening what they say. For me it's just being respectful towards my friends to really listen for few minutes, especially if I asked something like ''hey how are you doing with your hobby?'' If you say that you don't like their attitude, I guess I wouldn't too. They are your friends, they practice martial arts too, they spar with you, they ask you to show 'moves', yet they can't remember at least that you're not doing karate. However you have to understand that it's an individual thing; it has nothing to do with all the different karate styles and their practictioners. 

I also sympathize with your problems finding teacher. I don't know about Romania, but there are a lot of countries even in Europe where certain Martial arts have few or no professional teachers. Literally you can find places where no one is teaching certain art withinin 200+ miles. There are regions where instead of getting good and recognized Sambo teacher(there are a lot of good sambo guys in former Soviet block countries) MA/MMA gyms find some low level karateka, aikidoka or tkd guy claiming to be bjj blackbelt. When you ask them who awarded them bjj blackbelt you'll get answers like ''I've studied with many sensei, it's my system, I am master of Japanese Jujutsu so I can teach Brazilian variations of it'':hmm:. Same goes for wing chun, muay thai, jkd, Taijiquan etc. People are interested in different arts because of some tv exposure, but there are no teachers. It's very tempting for gym owners to start teaching something trendy. In those places Internet is only way to find some info. If that means searching, reading, comparing, 'cross examining', analyzing ten times in a row just to find one little nugget of knowledge, so be it. It's still better then blindly following some guy/girl who knows that people there are less likely to know when he/she is teaching nonsense.


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## pgsmith (Nov 19, 2013)

vladone97 said:


> ...  But I think it would be nice if people from around here tried to explain why I'm wrong instead of just saying "hey, mr self-taught, you're wrong" if they see that I'm misinformed. For example, I learnt that there are really fluid karate styles as well, but I still think kung fu is more fluid. I might be wrong about it. If I am, why? Is there the same ammount of fluidity in them? Or, if there are any extreme stereotypes in kung fu besides the ones I've already named, which are they? Or maybe the most important one, what exactly is wrong with my comparison between kung fu and Japanese karate (besided the part with opposite styles, which is currently just an opinion)? What would a correct comparison look like?



  No, I don't think I would like to explain anything. Why should I argue with you and attempt to teach you? You have been both rude and closed-minded in this thread, and that combination makes it virtually impossible for you to actually learn anything. Based on your actions and approach here, I wouldn't accept you as a student at the dojo, so why should I do it on-line? Do your own research and really study martial arts. It seems to me like you are simply playing martial arts and making endless excuses about why you can't learn them for real. Then you are expecting everyone to take you seriously and act like your guesses are facts. 

  I tried to help you earlier in this thread, but I'm done now. Believe what you wish to believe, and play however you want.


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## Instructor (Nov 19, 2013)

Yeah pretty much.  Turn off the computer, pick a local school and start learning.  Don't worry about what society calls something.  If it works for you and you are learning something than that's about all you can ask of it, whatever it may be.  Words like Karate are just carved into the culture at this point.  Heck I've been teaching my young son Hapkido for a while now and he still tells people Daddy is teaching him Karate.  They are just words..  The main thing is how training can improve you both as a person and as a fighter.


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## Dirty Dog (Nov 19, 2013)

vladone97 said:


> When I say "karate logic", I mean karate as it's taught in mcdojos.



How would you know what's taught in any dojo? Given that your own training is McYouTube, I mean?

On the other hand, there is a great deal of truth to describing YouTube as the Worlds Foremost McDojo, so maybe you're an expert on McDojos?

Here's what we know from your postings:
You've never actually trained in a martial art. Just surfed YouTube.
You did apparently go to one school, but since you know more about JKD than the instructor, you decided that what he was teaching wasn't JKD.
You think kung fu is a style - it's not.
You think Chinese martial arts have a monopoly on fluidity.
And other various bits of misunderstanding and plain flat out wrong information.

People have pointed out your errors. Now, you can stomp your feet, cry "I'm right! I know I am!" and you can continue to claim (falsely) that you've studied JKD for ten years. Given the number of people here who have (as another poster pointed out) uniforms older than you are, you won't find this very successful here.

Or you can go find an instructor and unlearn all the junk you've absorbed off YouTube. I'd estimate that at least 99% of the "training" videos on YouBoob are pure junk. And without REAL training, you lack a basis for even knowing which ones are junk and which ones contain a nugget or two that might actually be useful.

Have a nice life.


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## Daniel Sullivan (Nov 19, 2013)

vladone97 said:


> If I look for an instructor here in Romania, I'd probably know as much as I know right now.  Maybe even less. Because they usually don't teach anything.


On what empirical evidence do you base this?  



vladone97 said:


> But I think it would be nice if people from around here tried to explain why I'm wrong instead of just saying "hey, mr self-taught, you're wrong" if they see that I'm misinformed.


I and others have tried to explain some things to you, but you clearly are not interested in listening.  You quote us and regurgtate your original comments.  And this was happening *before *you made the announcement that you don't really study the styles you originally claimed to.  You still keep using the term, "kung fu" as if it is a single art, when it encompasses a broad group of styles, some of which happen to be more linear.  



vladone97 said:


> For example, I learnt that there are really fluid karate styles as well, but I still think kung fu is more fluid. I might be wrong about it. If I am, why? Is there the same ammount of fluidity in them? Or, if there are any extreme stereotypes in kung fu besides the ones I've already named, which are they? Or maybe the most important one, what exactly is wrong with my comparison between kung fu and Japanese karate (besided the part with opposite styles, which is currently just an opinion)? What would a correct comparison look like?


First of all, a correct comparison would be style to style, not one broad, meaningless category to another broad and nearly as meaningless category.  

Say, Northern Praying Mantis to Goju Ryu, Wing Chun to Kyokushin, Jeet Kune Do to Tang Soo Do, Tai Chi to Shito Ryu,or modern Wushu to Shotokan.  These are specific styles that can be compared to one another.  Saying "Kung Fu" is like saying "martial arts from China" which is larger than the US, and the term encompasses a very large and very diverse set of arts.  

Also, you are using the term fluid when you probably mean circular.  One can perform a linear art fluidly, in fact a skilled practitioner *should *be performing it fluidly.  The opposite of fluidity isn't linearity, but stiffness, which has more to do with how you practice than with what you practice.


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## skribs (Nov 19, 2013)

I wouldn't completely discount Youtube.  I've used a couple Youtube channels as a supplement and have seen an improvement in my technique.  That said, Youtube does not give you:

1) Critical analysis of your own technique (i.e. telling you what you're doing wrong)
2) Benchmarks for speed (follow along with the rest of the class)
3) Encouragement to work on the fitness aspect of the art (i.e. in Tae Kwon Do, we work a lot on flexibility and do some leg strengthening exercises)
4) Training Partners (useful for free sparring or scripted sparring, both which help with distancing and timing)

I thought to myself that I'd like to just use Youtube to learn a second art to supplement what I was learning in class, and realized real quick that without a sparring partner I would miss out on a lot of the practice I would need to be good at the art.  Specifically I was thinking of Wing Chun (which I don't believe there's a school for too close to me), and I realized that practicing blocks strictly in the air would be superfluous and there would be no way to work on sticky hands without a training partner.  While I might be able to learn most of the raw techniques, I wouldn't be able to practice them in an effective manner.

With that said, I think a striking art is a lot easier to learn by proxy than a grappling art.


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## Tony Dismukes (Nov 19, 2013)

vladone97 said:


> Karate has more misconceptions and stereotypes taken to the extreme level of stupidity. Kung fu has only a few, such as the Shaolin being super-powered beings who can not only do the amazing things they train for their whole lives, but also fly and control the elements. As for karate, we have "karate is all about breaking wood with the karate chop" (as mentioned in the original post), "in karate you learn how to do the awesome or even gravity-defying kicks from video games, movies and cartoons" (again, mentioned in the original post), "In karate you learn how to throw fireballs", "karate black belts must register their fists as deadly weapons", "karate can teach you how to kill your opponent in one strike" or "if it doesn't require you to wear a kimono (apparently that's how most karatekas refer to their gis), then it's not a martial art". And these are just the ones that came into my mind right now.



Just to be clear, are you saying that you have heard these "karate misconceptions" from actual practitioners of karate? I've met a lot of karateka over the years and I've never encountered one who claimed to be able to throw fireballs or any of the rest of it for that matter.  A few of those are stereotypes that people with no experience have about martial arts in general. Some of the others are cliches from cartoons. None of them has anything to do with what karate practitioners do or believe.


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## Tony Dismukes (Nov 19, 2013)

vladone97 said:


> I train, okay? It's just that I have to train on my own because, as I've said TWICE, I can't find anyone to train me propperly.




You're in Bucharest, right?  Here you go: http://www.wingchunbucuresti.ro/. Genuine Wing Chun Kung Fu instruction in your town.


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## vladone97 (Nov 20, 2013)

Tony Dismukes said:


> Just to be clear, are you saying that you have heard these "karate misconceptions" from actual practitioners of karate? I've met a lot of karateka over the years and I've never encountered one who claimed to be able to throw fireballs or any of the rest of it for that matter.  A few of those are stereotypes that people with no experience have about martial arts in general. Some of the others are cliches from cartoons. None of them has anything to do with what karate practitioners do or believe.


Someone once told me about a dojo that was convincing children to take up karate by using these cartoon cliches, such as claiming that once a student would reach ultimate mastery in the style that was taught there, they would be able to throw fireballs. And the instructor was telling his stuents not to reveal this "secret", as it wouldn't allow them to use the "magical chi energy" anymore.


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## vladone97 (Nov 20, 2013)

Xue Sheng said:


> So if you don't like the statement so you go to name calling....
> 
> I read your post about Karate that may or may not be JKD..... if you do not know why do you expect others to know
> 
> As for the Chinese martial arts stuff.... my understanding here is that you are learning from YouTube. If that is the case, in my opinion, you are not really doing any of them.


I didn't study with the instructor I talked about in that post.


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## vladone97 (Nov 20, 2013)

pgsmith said:


> No, I don't think I would like to explain anything. Why should I argue with you and attempt to teach you? You have been both rude and closed-minded in this thread, and that combination makes it virtually impossible for you to actually learn anything. Based on your actions and approach here, I wouldn't accept you as a student at the dojo, so why should I do it on-line? Do your own research and really study martial arts. It seems to me like you are simply playing martial arts and making endless excuses about why you can't learn them for real. Then you are expecting everyone to take you seriously and act like your guesses are facts.
> 
> I tried to help you earlier in this thread, but I'm done now. Believe what you wish to believe, and play however you want.


I must admit now that I was superficial. I apologize for that. I've made a little more research and one difference that would help one tell karate from kung fu at first sight (remember, at first sight, not if one were to analyze everythinh in depth) seems to be that kung fu has a wider range of moves. This might be wrong as well, but I think it's closer than my former theory.


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## Chris Parker (Nov 20, 2013)

I'll spell it out for you. Karate is a form of kung fu. The only differences that exist are between specific forms, and you get just as much difference between different kung fu forms as you get between different karate forms, and as much as you get between any specific kung fu form and a specific karate form. Karate's origin is as kung fu (systems such as White Crane) which were imported to Okinawa, and then later to Japan, and then Korea. In essence, they are all forms of kung fu, albeit with some subtle and not so subtle differences.

When it comes to yourself, if I'm reading your user name correctly, you were born in 1997, which means you're sixteen. You have no actual time in any art whatsoever, and have never been in a school. However, you are criticizing the way a number of arts are taught (without knowing really anything about the arts, the way they're taught, or what would make something a "McDojo" or not). I get the frustration, but honestly, you have absolutely no basis for any of the comments you've been making. Here, you have access to people who have been there, done that, bought the t-shirt, and washed the blood out of it. Belittling a martial art based on absolutely no ability to genuinely critique it is not going to endear you to anyone, especially those who do train in the arts you're bringing up.

My advice is to take a (major) step back... recognize that you really have no experience in this at all (and, frankly, the excuse of "there's no good schools around me" is weak, you've been given links to a range of schools, and you have no real way of knowing if they're good or not... but more to the point, you cannot self-teach this. If there genuinely isn't a school around you, you can't learn it. End of story, deal with it), recognize that you are more guilty of exactly what you're complaining about than even the people you're criticizing, and get some sense of reality. If you haven't trained in something (videos really, really, don't count), you haven't trained in it. Reading Bruce Lee books doesn't cut it. Watching videos doesn't cut it. Thinking you have experience when you don't doesn't cut it. Either join an actual school, train for a number of years, establish actual experience to be able to discuss things from a position of some understanding, or don't. But don't think that the membership here will take any of your comments as informed, because they're not. Thing is, though, we can't go through every little point that you're off-base on, because it'd take too long, and you honestly don't have enough understanding to follow what you'd be told.

Oh, and if you want to see an art that has a lot of "stupid stereotypes" attached, try mine.


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## K-man (Nov 20, 2013)

vladone97 said:


> I must admit now that I was superficial. I apologize for that. I've made a little more research and *one difference that would help one tell karate from kung fu at first sight (remember, at first sight, not if one were to analyze everythinh in depth) seems to be that kung fu has a wider range of moves. *This might be wrong as well, but I think it's closer than my former theory.


You are right.  What I mean is, your theory is still wrong. When the original guys brought kung fu back to Okinawa they blended it with Te that already existed. In its traditional form karate has at least as much as Kung fu.
the best way for you to tell karate from Kung fu is that we wear those funny white pyjamas and the other guys wear those sexy silk suits.
:asian:


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## Tony Dismukes (Nov 20, 2013)

vladone97 said:


> Someone once told me about a dojo that was convincing children to take up karate by using these cartoon cliches, such as claiming that once a student would reach ultimate mastery in the style that was taught there, they would be able to throw fireballs. And the instructor was telling his stuents not to reveal this "secret", as it wouldn't allow them to use the "magical chi energy" anymore.



So what you have there is a secondhand rumor about some bit of nonsense that someone you never met supposedly said. Please believe me that this particular bit of nonsense has nothing to do with what actual karate instructors teach.


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## sopraisso (Nov 20, 2013)

K-man said:


> You are right.  What I mean is, your theory is still wrong. When the original guys brought kung fu back to Okinawa they blended it with Te that already existed. In its traditional form karate has at least as much as Kung fu.
> the best way for you to tell karate from Kung fu is that we wear those funny white pyjamas and the other guys wear those sexy silk suits.
> :asian:



QFA (quoted for awesome)!

Enviado de meu GT-I9300 usando Tapatalk


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## Daniel Sullivan (Nov 20, 2013)

vladone97 said:


> I must admit now that I was superficial. I apologize for that. I've made a little more research and one difference that would help one tell karate from kung fu at first sight (remember, at first sight, not if one were to analyze everythinh in depth) seems to be that kung fu has a wider range of moves. This might be wrong as well, but I think it's closer than my former theory.


Again, which style of Kung fu and which ryu of karate?  You're not_ incorrect. _ Not because one can tally up the moves of one art and compare them with the moves of another, but because you're still treating Kung fu and karate each as a single art or as a group of very similar arts.  Karate is a smaller group of arts than Kung Fu, which encompasses more arts (each of which has subsets) than karate.  Which makes sense, given that China is much, much larger than Japan.  So while you're not specifically incorrect, you're not correct either.  The comparison is simply pointless.

Martial arts is a western term, specifically an English term.  Saying Kung fu has more moves than karate is akin to saying that Martial arts has more moves than karate.


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## Xue Sheng (Nov 20, 2013)

vladone97 said:


> I didn't study with the instructor I talked about in that post.



Did you study with any instructor at all?

Or is all of your "training" YouTube based?

Now this bit



Chris Parker said:


> When it comes to yourself, if I'm reading your user name correctly, you were born in 1997, which means you're sixteen.



If this is in fact true that would mean you started practicing JKD when you were 6


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## Instructor (Nov 20, 2013)

Stop the feeding...


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## jks9199 (Nov 20, 2013)

Folks,

Let's back off a little...  Kid's got interest, and is writing pretty well for someone who's first language isn't English.  Yeah, he's got some mistaken ideas, and would certainly benefit from getting some real training -- even at a less than ideal school or club.  But which of us didn't have silly ideas at 16?  (Occasionally, I kind of feel like I need to just start apologizing for just about every 3rd thing I said when I was 16...  And for about half of what's left?  Grovel.)

He's not likely to listen to messages coming across as "HEY STUPID!"  I know I wouldn't have...


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## Balrog (Nov 21, 2013)

The word "karate" has become like "Coke" or "band-aid" or "Kleenex"  It has become a generic trademark, so to speak.  I teach Taekwondo, but almost everyone I meet uses the term Karate for what I do.  It used to upset me and I would take the time to educate them on the difference between karate, taekwondo and gung fu.  Their eyes would glaze over.

Hollywood has said it's karate, so karate it is.  It's the term people recognize..


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## clfsean (Nov 21, 2013)

Balrog said:


> The word "karate" has become like "Coke" or "band-aid" or "Kleenex"  It has become a generic trademark, so to speak.



Truth. I'm from Georgia. It's not so much now due to more people being here from out of state than natives, but we used to order a "Coke" & then used to give the flavor... Sprite, Orange, Pepsi, Dr Pepper, etc...


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## pgsmith (Nov 21, 2013)

clfsean said:


> Truth. I'm from Georgia. It's not so much now due to more people being here from out of state than natives, but we used to order a "Coke" & then used to give the flavor... Sprite, Orange, Pepsi, Dr Pepper, etc...



  We do the same thing in Texas except that while a coke comes in all flavors, a Dr. Pepper is a Dr. Pepper!


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## Touch Of Death (Nov 21, 2013)

pgsmith said:


> We do the same thing in Texas except that while a coke comes in all flavors, a Dr. Pepper is a Dr. Pepper!


Unless I slip you a Mr. Pib.


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## clfsean (Nov 21, 2013)

Touch Of Death said:


> Unless I slip you a Mr. Pib.



You mean a Pibb Xtra now thanks to some *grumble*


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