# Wing Chun competing in Cage



## Si-Je (Oct 9, 2008)

We're getting WC in the cage next month.  San Shau rules, and this is a preliminary fight so the promoter can see what hubbie's got.  But, the cage nevertheless.

May the Chi be with him! lol!
He's going to fight a younger, "more expeienced cage fighter", and a grappler to boot.  Can't wait!  Will try to get video and post in Novemeber.
This is for all the WC'ers, and for Hubbies fun too.
Peace.


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## Eru IlÃºvatar (Oct 9, 2008)

Thats great! Can't wait to hear how it turns out. I would just like to ask, does he have any other experience except WC/will he train in other arts too for the cage or does he feel he has everything he needs in WC? Anyway, good luck to your hubbie and respect to him!


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## Si-Je (Oct 9, 2008)

He's got rank in Kempo Karate, and Judo.  But, he's trained WC for over 10 years, so's he's pretty much using 100% Wing Chun in the ring.  
And thanks for the good wishes!


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## dungeonworks (Oct 9, 2008)

Blessings and luck to your hubby Si-je!  Any chance of getting video of the fight up?


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## Si-Je (Oct 9, 2008)

I hope so!  We've got a buddie that's going to the fight and he's gonna bring his camcorder.  I'll keep asking around for folks that have one to borrow.  The more video the merrier!


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## mook jong man (Oct 9, 2008)

All the best and keep fighting the good fight .


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## Si-Je (Oct 9, 2008)

Eru Ilúvatar;1051861 said:
			
		

> Thats great! Can't wait to hear how it turns out. I would just like to ask, does he have any other experience except WC/will he train in other arts too for the cage or does he feel he has everything he needs in WC? Anyway, good luck to your hubbie and respect to him!


 

He won't train anything else for the cage.  Just have to wrap his head around the rules inside the ring.
He's got all the skills and tools he needs for the ring with Wing Chun.

No punches to the back or top of the head.  Butt,... you can elbow! (go figure) and slam your forearm on the back of their neck when they shoot in for a takedown.  That's plenty good.    Allowing head control.

no kicking or kneeing them while their down on the ground and your standing.  Fair enough.  

no eye gouging (he doesn't rely on that at all anyway.  That's more like on of my moves. lol!)  But, you can still use bui gee in other handy ways.  

No chopping to the throat.  fair enough, that's just mean.
No groin strikes, again fair.  but inside the thiegh is legal.

I'm going to have to talk to the promoter again to double check all the rules.  He says it's San Shau rules in a cage.  Takedowns okay, just no ground fighting.  
Was hoping to have a fight where that was allowed.  But, I guess it's okay since it's his first fight.  One thing at a time.


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## terryl965 (Oct 9, 2008)

I would love to come see him when where and I will be there cheering him on.


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## KamonGuy2 (Oct 10, 2008)

Si-Je said:


> He won't train anything else for the cage. Just have to wrap his head around the rules inside the ring.
> He's got all the skills and tools he needs for the ring with Wing Chun.
> 
> No punches to the back or top of the head. Butt,... you can elbow! (go figure) and slam your forearm on the back of their neck when they shoot in for a takedown. That's plenty good.  Allowing head control.
> ...


No groundfighting? What is the point in that? 
I thought the whole point of this wing chun in the cage was to prove it worked against anything.


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## Journeyman (Oct 10, 2008)

Well, it'll be a test of Wing Chun take-down defense, at least.  I think the Wing Chunner deserves props for being willing to step into the ring or cage even if it's not a full-out MMA contest.


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## Nolerama (Oct 10, 2008)

I saw a fight like that a few months ago. The traditional WCer got a nasty surprise when he took a straight jab to the face from a PFS guy. They used san shou rules as well. The PFS guy had some really good Judo-like takedowns. I don't think the WCer had any experience with that. However, the WCer got in the PFS guy's standing guard a lot and tried to dirty box (which is the only way to box IMO) but couldn't dominate a true clinch. Tell your hubby to watch out, and respect long-range kicks, as well as hard body shots.

This will be interesting. Please send video.


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## KamonGuy2 (Oct 13, 2008)

Journeyman said:


> Well, it'll be a test of Wing Chun take-down defense, at least. I think the Wing Chunner deserves props for being willing to step into the ring or cage even if it's not a full-out MMA contest.


 
The point is that we don't need a takedown defence demonstration. When you have an opponent coming at you who you can see and know is trying to take you down, keeping your feet is easy. I see it every day. In my class I do a last man standing match at the end where all the students 'fight each other' with the rules being if you touch a wall you are out, if you are submitted you are out. No strikes are allowed - it is just a bit of fun at the end of the class. People always try takedowns and people pretty much always keep their feet!! You will find that in most arts. Yet when you are in a nightclub and a fight occurs and you have tables, people, obstacles to fall over, you are very likely to go to the ground

Plus you don't really see the takedown coming in that kind of environment

Therefore the whole thing seems a bit pointless

I hate people who talk about getting in the cage and then you realise that they are basically only allowed to wrestle or kickbox

I don't mind if the thing had been billed as a bit of fun in a cage 

I've been in a cage three times. I don't expect applause for that
I'm doing a knockdown tournament next Sunday, but it is really a bit of fun and not a test of how good wing chun is or how good a fighter I am


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## jarrod (Oct 13, 2008)

Journeyman said:


> Well, it'll be a test of Wing Chun take-down defense, at least. I think the Wing Chunner deserves props for being willing to step into the ring or cage even if it's not a full-out MMA contest.


 
if he is trained in judo as she says, it's not really going to prove anything for WC takedown defense.

jf


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## Si-Je (Oct 13, 2008)

Patience folks.  This is just the first fight, one we could get in our area.
His opponent is a MMA and grappling stylist, so that should be interesting enough.
After this fight we'll be able to see what is next.  I'm working on getting another fight for him in May, and that one should be all out MMA cage match.

As for the Judo, he won't have much use for it in the ring.  It's really hard to judo throw a tori when they're clutching you like a cat like these clinching grappler and BJJ guys tend to do. lol!
The WC will be much more handy. 

As for "dirty boxing" he'll keep it clean enough.  He may have to hook punch the ears and side of the head while being clinched against the fence (not sure if that will even happen) or when the grappler shoots into his knees for a takedown.  And that's only because he can't just chain punch the back of the head and neck like we train to do normally.

Either way, it's going to be fun to watch!

We're still working on getting a full on MMA cage match for him hopefully soon.  I'm working on one in May.  We'll see if we can get one sooner.


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## punisher73 (Oct 13, 2008)

Kamon Guy said:


> The point is that we don't need a takedown defence demonstration. When you have an opponent coming at you who you can see and know is trying to take you down, keeping your feet is easy. I see it every day. In my class I do a last man standing match at the end where all the students 'fight each other' with the rules being if you touch a wall you are out, if you are submitted you are out. No strikes are allowed - it is just a bit of fun at the end of the class. People always try takedowns and people pretty much always keep their feet!! You will find that in most arts. Yet when you are in a nightclub and a fight occurs and you have tables, people, obstacles to fall over, you are very likely to go to the ground
> 
> Plus you don't really see the takedown coming in that kind of environment
> 
> ...


 
I agree that a takedown without using set up strikes is easy to see and counter, but if you tie up the person's attention (just like any technique) it is harder to defend.

Plus, she was very explicit that this was a FIRST fight and is a preliminary fight at the event.  She also spelled out that it is SanShou rules.  Every type of contest will have a rule set that supports what it is trying to accomplish, that is the point.  SanShou rules supports both fighters striking and throwing down their opponent.


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## Tez3 (Oct 13, 2008)

Si-je, answer your Pm asap please! need some more details!! 
When in Nov is fight?


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## Si-Je (Oct 13, 2008)

I think it's the 15th.  Still have to get ahold of the promoter for more details.  he's a hard dude to get in touch with.
Will find out for sure this week.


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## Tez3 (Oct 13, 2008)

Si-Je said:


> I think it's the 15th. Still have to get ahold of the promoter for more details. he's a hard dude to get in touch with.
> Will find out for sure this week.


 

Thank you!


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## KamonGuy2 (Oct 14, 2008)

Si-Je said:


> Patience folks. This is just the first fight, one we could get in our area.
> His opponent is a MMA and grappling stylist, so that should be interesting enough.


Not really - the MMA guy is limited by the rules (ie no floorwork)
Its like saying 'I've got a cage fight against a wing chun guy, but there are no strikes allowed'
I'm not taking anything away from your husbands guts to get into a cage or to fight a good fighter, but what I don't like is when you are stating that it will show off 'pure wing chun' against an MMA fighter, when you have taken away the MMA guy's fundamental ability to grapple



Si-Je said:


> After this fight we'll be able to see what is next. I'm working on getting another fight for him in May, and that one should be all out MMA cage match.


That will be more like it. We want to see 'pure' wing chun against MMA'ers to demonstrate what you have been saying all along


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## Tez3 (Oct 14, 2008)

Kamon Guy said:


> Not really - the MMA guy is limited by the rules (ie no floorwork)
> Its like saying 'I've got a cage fight against a wing chun guy, but there are no strikes allowed'
> I'm not taking anything away from your husbands guts to get into a cage or to fight a good fighter, but what I don't like is when you are stating that it will show off 'pure wing chun' against an MMA fighter, *when you have taken away the MMA guy's fundamental ability to grapple*
> 
> ...


 
There could be a problem if the opponent's primary art is a striking one! If he's fighting in a CMA rules comp it could be his primary art is also Wing Chun? I think it's always a good idea whatever style you are fighting even against someone your own style to check out your opponents strengths and weaknesses. It's a competition after all not a street fight so knowing as much as you can and working out tactics is always a good idea. it will also make for a more entertaining match which is also what promoters are looking for, good fighters are values but good entertaining fighters are priceless. A little bit of showmanship will go down well. I don't mean wrestling style lol but something that makes your fighter stand out and get people supporting him, if the crowd is behind him and people remember the fight for all the right reasons you will get future fights easier.


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## Eru IlÃºvatar (Dec 3, 2008)

Hi!

Si-Je, if you're reading this, I was just wondering what happened to that fight? Did your 'hubbie' get in the cage yet? If he did, I would love to see a video.

Thanks in advance,

Rick


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## Si-Je (Dec 3, 2008)

That promoter (or whatever he is) was a bunk deal.  I've got another promoter that has a fight on a military base, holding fights for the troops.  We're focusing on that fight right now.  Hubbies got more conditioning to do for the "show", although he's more than ready to fight.
If I can put him in another fight sooner I will (if the promoter doesn't put me off.  I will not put up with shisty dealings).  
That last fight 'opportunity' we really didn't think was such a big deal, just wanted to get him exposed in the "cage".  But, even for a free fight we're going to have to watch these people.  I really didn't see much point in him trying to pull one over on us, since he didn't have to pay him.  Weird.
Hubbie's getting his personal trainer certifications, getting registered with TAMMA, with the boxing commission here in Texas, and by the summer will be ready for whatever this military promoter has got to offer.  
We're really, really hoping for this fight.  There's supposed to be MMA scouts there, professional guest fighters, and they may broadcast on the military cable channel.  Still waiting for details.  Their really short on women fighters, and wanting to get some there.  He pays for the travel, room and board for the fighters and their crew and family.  
We'll see.  I'm going to try to hold off on getting excited until I see if he's TRUELY going to hold to his word.
But I will definately let you all know, when I know.  He'll fight somewhere.  And I'll get that video.  It's the only way to show folks what WC can and WILL do in the cage.


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## Eru IlÃºvatar (Dec 3, 2008)

Thanks for the quick reply!  Hope you hubbie does well! I would love to see how a capable Wing Chunner would do in a cage. 



> Their really short on women fighters, and wanting to get some there. He pays for the travel, room and board for the fighters and their crew and family.


 
Are you thinking of going in a cage yourself?


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## Si-Je (Dec 3, 2008)

lol, oh God no!  I tend to take being punched in the face really personal.  Besides, I've only competed in one tournament in my life.  With Korean Karate continious sparing rules (way smaller ring) and only fought one black belt female.  (at 32 there's not alot of women that compete it seems).
I used straight wing chun and won, but I don't think that really qualifies me for the cage.  
Honestly, I don't think I could repeatedly strike a woman like that without there being a life threatening need.  I'd rather smack a guy around, lol!  Girls are mean!  

If I hurt someone I'd just die, if I got hurt I'd be pissed. (and uninsured.  ack!) 
Not a good attitude for a purse fighter I'm afraid.  

Hubbie's got a better mindset for this type of thing.  He can disengage and be more level headed for this kind of rough competition, and can be more sportsmanlike about it.  Me, I'd be more apt to end the fight asap, not more of a show there, no theatrics, too blunt.  Ending it fast would do better for my health.  But not marketable.


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## Yoshiyahu (Dec 4, 2008)

Did he fight yet?

Do you have a video of your hubbies fight?


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## naneek (Dec 19, 2008)

looking forward to hearing about your husbands fight se je it would be cool to see it on video too if you guys can do that, it might silence a few critics too ha ha best wishes for the fight!!


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## Yoshiyahu (Dec 19, 2008)

Tell Hubbie to make some copies of his sparring with students sometime!


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## Si-Je (Dec 21, 2008)

Yoshiyahu said:


> Tell Hubbie to make some copies of his sparring with students sometime!


 

I'll have to be sneaky about filming them.  They get all self-consicious when they know I'm videoing them.  Start giggleing and stuff.  tehehe
I do the same thing, lol!  I tried to get some good video yesterday, but what I got hubbies got a big chesire cat grin and laughing the whole time.  But, we always do that!  We say, okay, we've got to get SERIOUS!  Then we giggle more.  lol!

Now, I've got to get a memory card too! ack!  I only have one minute's worth of memory on the camera.  
Don't worry guys, be patient, it'll be coming.


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## Yoshiyahu (Dec 21, 2008)

Alrighty then get er done...


Yep no time better than the present...

Get Er Done...

lol

ha ha



Si-Je said:


> I'll have to be sneaky about filming them. They get all self-consicious when they know I'm videoing them. Start giggleing and stuff. tehehe
> I do the same thing, lol! I tried to get some good video yesterday, but what I got hubbies got a big chesire cat grin and laughing the whole time. But, we always do that! We say, okay, we've got to get SERIOUS! Then we giggle more. lol!
> 
> Now, I've got to get a memory card too! ack! I only have one minute's worth of memory on the camera.
> Don't worry guys, be patient, it'll be coming.


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## Eru IlÃºvatar (Mar 3, 2009)

Hey Si-Je, I was just wondering if there was/will be a fight? Are you even still considering it, or have you abandoned the idea?


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## Si-Je (Mar 5, 2009)

The promoter is getting some guff from the state of Texas, but he says he's still planning to hold the "show" in May. It'll be on military base so that should help him go around whatever the issue is with the state.
So, May hopefully.
He tells me it should be broadcasted on the Military channel and that their be other promoters and guest professional fighters there too.
I hope he's going to hold true to paying our way down there, I think he will, seems to be a straight up guy.
We still have to register Hubbie and his school with TAMMA and that's pretty costly and get his medical.
Since his med. insurance has kicked in we should be able to do it soon.
Yes, we're still planning on doing the fight. We haven't forgotten. 
Too bad it doesn't pay anything, but at least it's a chance to get a foot in the door for him. 
And to get video of WT/WC used in the cage against a MMA/grappler. Since everyone thinks it just cannot be done. lol! I've very excited about it and getting impatient.  Will let you all know when we've got video on the fight win or lose. Fair is fair. It's his first cage fight and I'm not sure how he'll do with all the "ruckass" that comes with purse fighting. 
He's an old football player and digs the crowd, so he'll probably do just fine.


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## koenig (Mar 11, 2009)

did this fight ever happen?  Where was the vid posted?


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## MJS (Mar 11, 2009)

koenig said:


> did this fight ever happen? Where was the vid posted?


 
According to the last post, the fight is taking place in May.  Hopefully all goes well.


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## koenig (Mar 11, 2009)

oh i guess i can't read late at night.  i thought it said november.

Sorry!  I'll bump the thread again in May


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## Hagakure (Mar 11, 2009)

Good luck to your hubby Si-je, for you guys and Wing Chun.


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## Si-Je (Mar 11, 2009)

Hagakure said:


> Good luck to your hubby Si-je, for you guys and Wing Chun.


 
Thanks guys   It was going to be in November but that promoter was a sneak and we didn't like him.
This guy in May should be better.  I just hope we can get his medical and registration done by then.  It's getting close to the wire.


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## Hagakure (Mar 11, 2009)

Si-Je said:


> Thanks guys   It was going to be in November but that promoter was a sneak and we didn't like him.
> This guy in May should be better.  I just hope we can get his medical and registration done by then.  It's getting close to the wire.



Yeah, May sounds a long way off, but I reckon there's a lot to get done. Hopefully it'll go right with this promoter. If not, maybe you could consider going into it yourself?


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## Si-Je (Mar 11, 2009)

Hagakure said:


> Yeah, May sounds a long way off, but I reckon there's a lot to get done. Hopefully it'll go right with this promoter. If not, maybe you could consider going into it yourself?


 
Who? me? nah...
What I've found to be difficult is just getting onto a fight card and finding a promoter. Many want you to have a "fight resume" and 10 fights under your belt.  all that you've done for free of course.  That's been really tickin' me off.  I don't think any fighter should fight for free, there is just too much risk involved and time and money in training.  (our grocery bill is getting high.  like feeding a football player! lol!)

This is what TAMMA wants:
1. $75 registration fee.  (to register with the state is only $20 bucks)
2. we have to register hubbie's school for $175
3. a extensive medical exam with EKG due to his age That'll be around $200
4. a month with him working out with a personal trainer, fight trainer, or school/team.  All translating to a potiential of hundreds of dollars.  They really want him to train for a month (at least) with a registered MMA school.  That's about $175 a month.

All this has to be done a month before the fight.

So, hubbie is getting his certification for personal trainer and is starting a new job working at a gym this week. 
I'll send in registration monies to TAMMA for his school, himself, and a copy of his personal trainer certification as a hopeful equilivant to him training at an overpriced MMA gym.
Just in time did he get this second job.  We may be able to pull it off in time.


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## jarrod (Mar 11, 2009)

Si-Je said:


> I'll send in registration monies to TAMMA for his school, himself, and a copy of his personal trainer certification as a hopeful equilivant to him training at an overpriced MMA gym.
> Just in time did he get this second job.  We may be able to pull it off in time.



when i first read that i thought they were just squeezing money out of you.  but it may just to make sure your hubby understands the rules & all.  they couldn't have him breaking necks or knees or anything once he got in there.

jf


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## KamonGuy2 (Mar 17, 2009)

America seems to be really tight with the fight promotions

I do a lot of knockdown karate tournaments and all you need for that is 
Doctor to sign you fit and healthy to compete
AMA insurance

And then off you go!

And these tournaments are bare knuckle!!

You need to find some like minded martial artists, film you sparring/fighting with them and then send it to promoters

If its good, you'll get sorted out


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## Si-Je (Mar 17, 2009)

Oh, I'm sure they are squeezing money out of us.  But, this is the big organization in Texas, their the largest MMA organization in the U.S (that's what they claim anyways. lol)
But still, because of his age he's still going to have to pay a doctor a lot of cash for the exams he has to take to be okay'd to fight.

He's starting his new job as a personal trainer this week, so when he gets that certification I'll submit a copy of it to TAMMA to prove that he's been training himself and is qualified to do so.  Maybe along with his Minor in sports physiology from college to go with it so he doesn't have to pay the fees to a MMA gym or another personal trainer for a month.
I'm afraid that by the time we get all this together we may not make the fight date.  But, at least he'll be on the list to fight in Texas.  It's becoming a real pain in the ***, and the wallet.
Jobs are disapearing everywhere and it's getting harder to fund this stuff.

I wish we could find some "like minded" martial artists for him to spar with and video to send to a promoter.  
No takers yet.


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## MJS (Mar 30, 2009)

Just curious as to how this is going.  May is just around the corner.  Did all of the pre-fight stuff, such as physical, paperwork, trainers, etc. happen without any issues?


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## Si-Je (Mar 30, 2009)

We've gotten most of the physical done, need to pay the large fee for the body stress test.  He's getting his personal trainer certification this week and that should suffice for his "trainer" requirement. Truth is, there isn't a fight trainer that can work him like he'd need to train for using wing chun in the cage. Unless we got ahold of another wing chun man.
So for him to train himself is the best way. Otherwise, it's just a waste of money.
I can't believe how costly it is to just get into the cage.  It's ridiculous and very frustrating.
will have to check up with the promoter, he was telling me he was having trouble with the state getting approval for the fight.  I'll see if he's still on schedule.


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## JGreber (Apr 13, 2009)

Can't wait to see this fight! Best luck to your hubbie. Keep us informed.


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## Si-Je (Apr 13, 2009)

Okay guys. We're still on it. I'm impatient and excited too. Fact being, we be poor folks, and this is taking a bit of time. He's gotten the most of his physical and he just needs the "stress performance test" (whatever that is) for the doctors to sign off on him. But, that's a costly one. 

He's gotten his personal trainer certificate and has been working at the gym for the past two weeks now. Good thing too, because that's his second job and if he wasn't at a Gym all day he couldn't do conditioning. 

The promoter e-mailed me last month, and said he'd get with us when he's got it all together. I'll have to e-mail him back since it's getting so close. He told me the only heavyweight on the card right now is Hubbie. So, that could be a problem if he can't find another heavyweight. 

Plus, we're wanting to just register him with the state of Texas because it's just cheaper and would cover all kinds of fighting arenas. TXMMA is just expensive, and the gig doesn't pay a dime. (not meaning to get hung up so much on money, but it would be nice that if/WHEN he wins to have some compensation for his risk and the cost to get him in there, not to mention feed him! lol!)
Registering with the state would be okay, if the guy wasn't doing the fight on a military base sponsored by TXMMA. ack! We're probably gonna have to cough up the $250 to register him with them. Still waiting on the second jobs pay to kick in. Plus, we've gotta move from here! It's way too harry living out here in ghetto town East Dallas!

As a bonus, he got jumped by four guys on the train this afternoon while commuting from one job to the other. Lovely. 
He was standing in the space where two cars meet crossing from one car to another and got jumped for accidentally stepping on some punks shoe. So freaking Hollywood!
He told me all he remembers really doing is bui gee, knees and elbows. Extreme close quarters combat right there, not much room for anything else. I'm kinda worried because Texas self-defense law covers you at your car, job, home, and even the parking lot of your work, but nothing on the newly formed mass transit system. 
But a few witnesses vouched for him, although the cops tried to say he used "excessive force." Why? you ask?
Because he bui gee'ed the guy with the knife in the throat and when he dropped to the floor had to step on him to defend from the other three guys. Oops dude when to the hospital. And the other three were dropped with strikes to the throat. 
He's a little more "viscious" than I on first contact. 
Well, after talking to the other witnesses the cops asked hubbie if he wanted to press charges. "Hell yea!" He says. The cop laughs and says, "So you beat their *** and then press charges too, huh?" 
Only in Texas! 
Ye-haw! lol!

On a serious note, I'm glad he's okay and that is really scary. Although I really don't worry about him hardly at all. He's scary over-trained for defending himself. Me on the other hand, My two year old and I travel those trains weekly to shop for groceries, go to church and whatnot. The trains are getting bad these days, I quit riding them alone with my daugher and just stick to the buses. There has been too many cops looking for people on the trains these past couple of weeks. Now, I see why. 
Oh, yeah, another expense.... Get a car! lol!

At least I know for sure he won't get hurt in the ring. Only worried about him hurting someone else in the ring. That's what he's nervous about too.


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## JGreber (Apr 14, 2009)

Thanks for letting us know what is going on with your hubbie. I'm glad he got to teach those punks a lesson. I didn't know you guys live in Dallas. I teach wing chun in Dallas myself. I live in Arlington/Ft. Worth. I was taught my wing chun at Authentic Kung Fu in Ft. Worth, SiFu Steve Cottrell. Where did he train?


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## Si-Je (Apr 14, 2009)

He trained with Sifu Emin Boztepe and Sifu Jim Fung when he was stationed in Austrailia in the U.S.M.C. So, he does a combination of the two styles.  Their very similar. Just that EMBAS seems to favor the "blitz defense" alot and the Fung style more on energy. Both do many of the same techniques, pretty much the same forms, same principles, just different application.
EBMAS has the anti-grappling and Fung system focus's on "breaking the structure" more. Both very cool stuff.

I was exposed to Cotrell's wing chun oddly enough when I studied JJJ back in the 90's. The system I took incorporated alot of his Wing Chun in the Aiki and Goshin style Ju-Jitsu they taught. It wasn't a complete system of what Cotrell teaches just parts, no chi sau at all or don chi. The forms were totally different. But, I know all the flow drills and most of the training patterns like that. That's what got me interested in taking Wing Chun exclusively.


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## JGreber (Apr 14, 2009)

Thanks for the quick reply. I'm glad to see that SiFu's wing chun influenced someone into becoming a full time chunner. If you guys are interested in training sometime, write back and let me know.


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## qwksilver61 (Apr 15, 2009)

Si-Je,I hope he does well,good luck to him.


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## Flying Crane (Apr 15, 2009)

Si-Je,  do not discuss the details of your husband's altercation on the train.  This becomes a written statement about his ability and what happened, and if his attackers decided to press charges against him for "excessive force", your statements do not help him.  Particularly the comments about him being way over-trained for self defense.  

Zip it.  Now.


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## Si-Je (Apr 15, 2009)

Flying Crane said:


> Si-Je, do not discuss the details of your husband's altercation on the train. This becomes a written statement about his ability and what happened, and if his attackers decided to press charges against him for "excessive force", your statements do not help him. Particularly the comments about him being way over-trained for self defense.
> 
> Zip it. Now.


 
Okay.
Well the dude had a weapon on him, he's talked to the detective and hubbies filling charges against the four men. Texas is different when it comes to self defense.
But, thanks the warning about making a written statement online. It doesn't work that way here. My statements are strickly "hearsy", and his training is well documented through marine force recon, and his past 20+ years of martial arts training. That isn't a crime here to be trained in self defense.
Deadly force is legal if your life is threatened here. He didn't use anything near that level of force and was outnumbered 4 to 1. 
I remember when I lived in Massachuttes for a year or so. Their laws are really weird. He would have gone to jail up there in this instance. You have no rights at all to defend yourself up in new england, and I'm guessing most of the northern states are similar.
But, down here it's a different deal.  And that little adventure is over now.  Statement made, charges pressed on the 4 attackers. Done deal.


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## Si-Je (Apr 15, 2009)

JGreber said:


> Thanks for the quick reply. I'm glad to see that SiFu's wing chun influenced someone into becoming a full time chunner. If you guys are interested in training sometime, write back and let me know.


 
That would be really cool! Your in Fort Worth?


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## KamonGuy2 (Apr 16, 2009)

Si-Je said:


> Okay.
> Well the dude had a weapon on him, he's talked to the detective and hubbies filling charges against the four men. Texas is different when it comes to self defense.
> But, thanks the warning about making a written statement online. It doesn't work that way here. My statements are strickly "hearsy", and his training is well documented through marine force recon, and his past 20+ years of martial arts training. That isn't a crime here to be trained in self defense.
> Deadly force is legal if your life is threatened here. He didn't use anything near that level of force and was outnumbered 4 to 1.
> ...


 
Its sad that we live in a world where the bad guys sue

Common sense dictates that if you go up to someone with three other guys with the intention of hurting them, YOU SHOULD AUTOMATICALLY LOSE YOUR HUMAN RIGHTS

I hate all the namby pamby people in thsi day and age who are on the side of the criminal (or stupid people as I like to call them). 

Its like going into a zoo and trying to attack a tiger. If you are stupid enough to do it, you deserve what you get. End of story

I actually once got attacked by 8 guys in the middle of a reasonablly busy high street (I live in London). I managed to come away with two of the attacker's items of clothing, their sunglasses and their mountain bike
I held back a bit because I didnt want to get arrested (especially with loads of witnesses around) and I got a couple of knocks for my trouble When the police turned up they told me I should have gone in all fists blazing because it was a threat to my life!!

It is such a fine line between going in just a little too hard and ending up in trouble, and not going in hard enough and ending up in trouble!


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## Flying Crane (Apr 16, 2009)

Si-Je said:


> Okay.
> Well the dude had a weapon on him, he's talked to the detective and hubbies filling charges against the four men. Texas is different when it comes to self defense.
> But, thanks the warning about making a written statement online. It doesn't work that way here. My statements are strickly "hearsy", and his training is well documented through marine force recon, and his past 20+ years of martial arts training. That isn't a crime here to be trained in self defense.
> Deadly force is legal if your life is threatened here. He didn't use anything near that level of force and was outnumbered 4 to 1.
> ...


 
you never know where trouble might come from, nor how it might find you.  Best to just keep silent on the details of what happened.  You never know.

Glad to hear he came out OK in the incident.


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## Domino (May 27, 2009)

I read the fight was scheduled for May, any footage at all Si-Je ?


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## dnovice (Jun 2, 2009)

Si-Je said:


> Okay guys. We're still on it. I'm impatient and excited too. Fact being, we be poor folks, and this is taking a bit of time. He's gotten the most of his physical and he just needs the "stress performance test" (whatever that is) for the doctors to sign off on him. But, that's a costly one.
> 
> He's gotten his personal trainer certificate and has been working at the gym for the past two weeks now. Good thing too, because that's his second job and if he wasn't at a Gym all day he couldn't do conditioning.
> 
> ...


 

Wing chun baby! Glad your hubbie's not hurt. Good luck to him in mma fight.


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## MJS (Jun 3, 2009)

Just wondering if this fight ever happened?  If so, how did it go?


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## elder999 (Jun 13, 2009)

_Isn't it *June?*_


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## jarrod (Jun 13, 2009)

rule #1 of dealing with promoters: don't talk a lot about the fight until it actually happens.

jf


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## elder999 (Jun 28, 2009)

Almost July now...._is Jesse out of the hospital, yet?_


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## elder999 (Jul 22, 2009)

And now it's officially _High Summer_, and July is soon  to be a memory, with summer at its most _August_...:lfao:


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## MJS (Jul 22, 2009)

elder999 said:


> And now it's officially _High Summer_, and July is soon to be a memory, with summer at its most _August_...:lfao:


 
Its been over 2 mos. since the OP has logged on.  I'm going to take a shot in the dark and say that, a) the OP will most likely not be back, b) the fight never happened, and c) if it did happen, we probably won't hear about it, due to the OP not being here.  :idunno:


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## elder999 (Jul 22, 2009)

MJS said:


> ........ and c) if it did happen, we probably won't hear about it, due to the OP not being here. :idunno:


 

......or because of her hubby's performance. :lfao:


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## jarrod (Jul 22, 2009)

you forget, hubby is invincible.  we won't hear about it because they are on the lamb after killing his opponent.

jf


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## Carol (Jul 22, 2009)

jarrod said:


> you forget, hubby is invincible.  we won't hear about it because they are on the lamb after killing his opponent.
> 
> jf



If her myspace status is any indication, "hubby" isn't hubby anymore.


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## jks9199 (Jul 22, 2009)

Carol Kaur said:


> If her myspace status is any indication, "hubby" isn't hubby anymore.


OOPS!

Not good, on many levels.  Though, then again, maybe it is.


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## jarrod (Jul 22, 2009)

Carol Kaur said:


> If her myspace status is any indication, "hubby" isn't hubby anymore.



that's really too bad, they seemed perfect together.

jf


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## elder999 (Jul 22, 2009)

Carol Kaur said:


> If her myspace status is any indication, "hubby" isn't hubby anymore.


 
Because of her hubby's _*performance*_?  he-hehe.....:lol:


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## mook jong man (Jul 23, 2009)

Mock them all you want , but as far as I'm concerned that girl and her husband both had great insight into the nuances of the Wing Chun system.

I had interesting conversations with the both of them , discussing our system and to me it is irrelevant how he did in the cage or if he even competed.
Though I wished them all the best , they both knew my views , it is a self defence system not a sport.

They both gave a lot of good advice to new Wing Chun students that came on here searching for solutions to various problems.

If we disregard all the stupid arguments that went on about ground fighting , and purely go on their knowledge of Wing Chun then I will say that their knowledge was quite sound.
I for one wish that they would start contributing on the Wing Chun forum again.


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## Nabakatsu (Jul 23, 2009)

Well effing said mook, I have been lurking about reading everything since my departure to posting on the forums, but I felt it necessary to add a bit of support to this topic, They offered me a lot of good advice and encouragement when I had just started out with wing tzun and this forum. I think it's ridiculus people would mock them some 2 months after there last post, seems as if martial arts doesn't quite fill the role of anger management for some. -shrugs- I hope that he competed and learned something about himself, and I hope her studies continue to be fruitful as well, should they ever come across this, know I won't forget the help either of you have offered me any time soon and that I wish you both the best.


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## bully (Jul 23, 2009)

Belittling someone isnt a nice thing to do, especially when you dont know the facts. Laughing at someone elses misfortune is low, very very low. You should be ashamed of yourselves.

I really like this forum but sometimes posts really p1ss me off. Dont mind some good debating and difference of opinions but mocking???

I totally agree with MJM and Nab.


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## matsu (Jul 23, 2009)

like nab. that lady always good advice and was more than welcome to give it and to back up her arguements with sound logic.
for me, her contributions will be missed!

and outside of this tiny forum.each others lives are their own!

matsu


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## MJS (Jul 23, 2009)

elder999 said:


> ......or because of her hubby's performance. :lfao:


 


Carol Kaur said:


> If her myspace status is any indication, "hubby" isn't hubby anymore.


 


elder999 said:


> Because of her hubby's _*performance*_? he-hehe.....:lol:


 
Oh my......


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## MJS (Jul 23, 2009)

Regarding the departure, mocking, the ground fighting and cage fighting discussions.....anyone is free to post, come and go as they choose.  Often times, especially on forums, it can be hard for others to get the point you're trying to make, due to the fact that the emphasis on the post could be lost, due to the fact that you're reading, not hearing what is being said, thus things can be misunderstood.  Of course on the other hand, some people can be so set in their ways, that they are too stubborn to see or hear what others are saying, hence, they get upset, cry foul and leave.  

I think in the case here, while its fine to be passionate about your art, it may not always be a good idea to be so closed to other things, and that IMO, I feel was one of the issues.  People with more ground and ring fighting were offering comments, met with resistance, and the tense began.

Additionally, this isn't the first thread that spoke of her husband fighting in the cage, so for me at least, with all of the hype about it, I was curious to whether or not it actually happened.

In closing I'll say this....both her and her other half/ex-other half, if thats the case, are welcome to return if they choose.


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## mook jong man (Jul 23, 2009)

I don't think its anybody's bloody business  except their own whether they are still together or not . 

Its just not something that should be discussed on a public internet forum    :angry:


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## jarrod (Jul 23, 2009)

i'm sure they were very knowledgeable about wing chun.  but when you come to a public place MA forum, talk smack about other members, talk smack about other styles, brag about your invincibility, refuse to listen to anyone else, & just generally talk a lot of ****, you're going to bring down a bit of ridicule.  they were a classic example of dishing it out but not being able to take it.

i don't wish divorce on anybody.  but after all the cooing & bragging in public, it is a bit ironic.

jf


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## MJS (Jul 23, 2009)

mook jong man said:


> I don't think its anybody's bloody business except their own whether they are still together or not .
> 
> Its just not something that should be discussed on a public internet forum :angry:


 
But its ok to post it on myspace which is public?  And yes, while myspace can be set to a 'friends only' read, however, in this case, it is public read.

On that note though, I do agree...the topic of this thread is WC competing in the cage, not a divorce hearing.


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## MJS (Jul 23, 2009)

jarrod said:


> i'm sure they were very knowledgeable about wing chun. but when you come to a public place MA forum, talk smack about other members, talk smack about other styles, brag about your invincibility, refuse to listen to anyone else, & just generally talk a lot of ****, you're going to bring down a bit of ridicule. they were a classic example of dishing it out but not being able to take it.
> 
> i don't wish divorce on anybody. but after all the cooing & bragging in public, it is a bit ironic.
> 
> jf


 
QFT!!!  IMHO, that was the case here.


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## Si-Je (Jul 24, 2009)

Wow. I haven't been on here in a long while, been busy. I didn't realize so many folks looked at my myspace site.  And yes, we're seperated and headed for divorce, I didn't realize so many were really that interested. I'm getting a divorce, it happens. He's a great martial artist just not a good spouse/partner. That being said... I'm pretty open with my life some aren't, I just am. 

And no, unfortunatelly we never got word back from that promoter for the fight. I'm thinking the fight fell through some how. But, since I was the one doing all the research and hunting down promoters I just don't have the time to devote to that with college going on, my kiddo, starting a new job, moving and now, getting a divorce. I really realized that he didn't really want to fight about 4-5 months ago, I tried to encourage him and help him train but hey, if someone's not motivated to do it you can't make them. 
I was very excited when he decided to fight. (Actually that's all I've heard from him in the past three years) And was hoping to promote his fight online so folks would see it. But, that backfired on me. 
I'm sure if you go to www.wingchunfightclub.com you'll see plenty of new video of WC fighters in the ring. They seem to really do nothing there but fight in competition. And, they've got a few videos of fights too.

Sorry guys, I built it all up and I really didn't intend to let ya'll down. I really thought he was gung ho for competition. Said he was. But, since the promoter stopped contacting us on the fight and keep telling me that it was delayed we really couldn't do much about it.


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## seasoned (Jul 24, 2009)

I am glad you are back, or at least posting.


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## mook jong man (Jul 24, 2009)

I'm glad your back too , sorry to hear about your impending divorce.
Its never a pleasant thing , but sometimes it is the best thing for both people invoved.

I hope that you can still find some where else to study Wing Chun , you can't let the years you have already put in go to waste.

It can be a hard road back once you stop , even if you just train at home , it can be just the tonic for helping you forget about all your troubles for a while.


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## geezer (Jul 24, 2009)

seasoned said:


> I am glad you are back, or at least posting.



Same here. Si je... and I hope you stick with Wing Chun... there are a lot of good 'chunners to work with in Texas.  Good luck.


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## naneek (Jul 25, 2009)

good to hear from you again si je sorry to hear about your divorce, best of luck to you


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## Carol (Jul 26, 2009)

Sorry to hear things didn't go as you hoped.  Glad to hear you are keeping up your training.  A few of us here, myself included, found MA training to be a great way to bang out (literally!) some of the stress of divorce.


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## Si-Je (Jul 27, 2009)

Thanks all, sorry,.. didn't mean to bum you all out. Stuff happens. I have found a new teacher from a totally different lineage that I've never heard of before. 
He's a chiropractor by profession, so he doesn't teach for a living. He's kinda picky. And it seems so far he really knows his physiology. 
Alot of stuff I posted Hubbie didn't agree with me. he trained me mostly in WT which works best for a larger person, and I only got bits and peices of Grandmaster Fungs teachings (unfortunately!) but, as a small person working with bigger people, you eventually figure some stuff out for yourself. Even if it's through painful trial and error. lol!
He's a great martial artist, and I really supported him competing because that's what he likes to do. apparently it's easier to get a san shao fight than an mma fight. i mean wow! I just couldn't seem to get him a for sure deal on a fight!
And we both really wanted to do it because so many people are "screaming" for proof of WC effeciency in the "ring". It would have been fun win or lose.
Thanks Mook and seasoned and all for welcoming me back. I did miss chatting. And do apologize for getting "rough" about some topics with some folks. I do have a temper. MA has made it better, but online it's just easier to blow up because you don't have to see or hear the person your chatting with, and that also makes for easier misunderstandings. 
I'm better face to face with folks. not so hot tempered at all, actually I come off "meek". lol!
But, I've been really stressed out lately and just downright bitchy for the past 4-6 months.
I would never have mentioned our seperation if someone didn't bother to read my myspace page. lol! I've got family and friends that I know and see offline that go to that page so I changed it to divorced (because they don't have "seperated" as an option) I didn't think it would be such a big deal. 
But, anyways,.. my new teacher holds much promise. We'll train together a couple of times so he can see where I'm at (Hubbie didn't teach me everything I needed to know to hold the "rank" of si-je. pissed me off! That's why I was going to change my MT name to si-je nevermore) and I can get an idea of what he teaches and we'll go from there. I'm just lucky I found a teacher so soon and so close to my work. He doesn't even charge?!


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## bekkilyn (Jul 27, 2009)

Oh I don't think you would need to change your name here. If it's turned out you aren't currently a Si-Je (and being a beginner, I'm not too sure I know what one is anyway), then it's surely something you would still aspire to be in the future, so keeping the name would be similar to positive visualization.

I've been through the whole separation thing myself, so hang in there!


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## Si-Je (Jul 28, 2009)

Your very sweet. And thank you. 
I just feel I shouldn't "teach" officially anymore since I haven't been taught some basic and advanced stuff. 
Maybe he slacked off when we got married, but I fought for his school in tournament and won ( my first and hopefully only tournament! lol!)
I wasn't anywhere near a blackbelt or whatever but I won with WC against a Muy Tai/boxing/grappling/ etc. fighter. MMA whatever.

anyway, i still liked the name "si-je nevermore" because It's like a spoof off Edger Allen Poe. 
Nevermore!
like the raven?! lol!

Anyways, I'll never teach again anyone but my daughter. Or a very close friend because I know.., well.. alot.
and I mix stuff like japanese ju-jitu (traditional) techniques that are totally "perverted" by wing chun. put that together you have "chin na" and no one bothered to teach me that. (I would love to learn that!)

I consider myself a total beginner in WC/WT, but I've learned alot. But, I won't ever join a federation, or become a "si-je" again. It's time I be the student insted of the "assistant teacher" for a teacher that uses that as an excuse to stop teaching me.  Get it?
lol! I hope not. your teacher is probably really good.
My new teacher promises to be good too.
And, yeah, seperation sucks.
It just messes up your entire life, since you built that around your "spouse", and then all of a sudden have to be "single".




bekkilyn said:


> Oh I don't think you would need to change your name here. If it's turned out you aren't currently a Si-Je (and being a beginner, I'm not too sure I know what one is anyway), then it's surely something you would still aspire to be in the future, so keeping the name would be similar to positive visualization.
> 
> I've been through the whole separation thing myself, so hang in there!


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## CuongNhuka (Jul 28, 2009)

***WARNING: THE FOLLOWING POST CONTAINS IMMATURE BEVAHIOR, CHILDISH LANGUAGE, AND SHOULD NOT BE READ ANYONE!***

SI-JE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-runs over and bear hugs-
It's been a while, I've really missed you. It's been really borning here since you went MIA. I blame it on.... never mind.
I missed having someone quite willing to look at Martial Arts in a three dimensional way.
-hugs again-

I hope you keep posting here!


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## Si-Je (Jul 28, 2009)

I'm not a si-je. I have no verifiable rank with any teacher except my hubbie. he trained me for the past 2-3 years (with a small break for 6 months being preggerz) and well. no.
I'm not a si-je.
But, I love to teach folks. Just can't help sharing what I've learned even online. 
But, officially. no.
I'm no si-je.
Just a chick that took Wing Chun for about four years, on and off. and learned from a guy that had no official charts to teach from.
So, I teach weird WC/WT. I teach what helped me learn it and get better. and survive sparring. lol!

dude,. hubbie taught me bad chi sau. I went to the new teacher and did chi sau with him and everything hubbie taught me were techniques that crossed my arms for a second. Him and his student capitalized on that.
I must learn anew.
start all over.
I am not wothery.
But, not my fault. fault of my teacher.
That's why most of what I ever said on here about WC/WT was not his viewpoint. it was mine.  
misguided maybe, obviously, but... mine.
love you guys!

-si-je nevermore!



bekkilyn said:


> Oh I don't think you would need to change your name here. If it's turned out you aren't currently a Si-Je (and being a beginner, I'm not too sure I know what one is anyway), then it's surely something you would still aspire to be in the future, so keeping the name would be similar to positive visualization.
> 
> I've been through the whole separation thing myself, so hang in there!


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## zepedawingchun (Jul 28, 2009)

Si-Je said:


> Your very sweet. And thank you.
> I just feel I shouldn't "teach" officially anymore since I haven't been taught some basic and advanced stuff.


 
Why not? You should teach, it will improve your WC because you have to do and prove what you illustrate works. You will learn so much more about the system by teaching, passing it on to others.



Si-Je said:


> anyway, i still liked the name "si-je nevermore" because It's like a spoof off Edger Allen Poe. Nevermore!


 
I think you should keep the name Si-Je. Si-Je just means older gung fu sister in cantonese. I'm sure you have more skill and knowledge (having 4 years in WC) than a few members on this forum. It wasn't all wasted. Maybe you have more to learn (with this new sifu), but WC is a life learning process. It never stops and gets better and better.




Si-Je said:


> I consider myself a total beginner in WC/WT, but I've learned alot. But, I won't ever join a federation, or become a "si-je" again. It's time I be the student insted of the "assistant teacher" for a teacher that uses that as an excuse to stop teaching me. Get it?
> lol! I hope not. your teacher is probably really good.
> My new teacher promises to be good too.
> And, yeah, seperation sucks.
> It just messes up your entire life, since you built that around your "spouse", and then all of a sudden have to be "single".


 
Sometime joining an organization or federation is good, as long as it grows in skill and knowledge of the art and passes it down to the members. If it's just there to take your money, than it's worthless.

I've been training and teaching WC for 26 years and still consider myself a beginner. Always learning something new. The day you think you've learned all there is to learn in WC (as in anything) is the day the guy or girl right beside you in class will whip up on you and make an example of you, show you there is still more to learn.

Yeah, divorce sux, but its the best way to start new and focus on the important things in life, like close friends, family (that includes WC family), and better WC training! ! ! Worked for me.

Can I ask who the new teacher is and what lineage? Hopefuly he is a smaller framed person. No offense to WC people of 5'10" and larger statue, but smaller WC people do it better. We have to.


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## Nabakatsu (Jul 28, 2009)

Whats that about saying wt is better suited for big strong men? -prepares his tissue paper- wellllllll crap, aint that a shame! Guess it's time to look for a new lineage again! Seriously tho, lol.. might I inquire what insights you have about that little comment? I'm curious to know where your coming from seeing as how I'm even worse than a little fella.. i'm a tall toothpick lookin fella.. Maybe I should go train with samuel kwok or something.. seems to be my same build 
Welcome back again!


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## zepedawingchun (Jul 28, 2009)

Nabakatsu said:


> . . . . Seriously tho, lol.. might I inquire what insights you have about that little comment? I'm curious to know where your coming from seeing as how I'm even worse than a little fella.. i'm a tall toothpick lookin fella.. Maybe I should go train with samuel kwok or something.. seems to be my same build
> Welcome back again!


 
My Sifu is about 5'6" and 150 lbs. and I have seen him on many an occasion move around guys 250 lbs. and more like they were nothing.  In the middle 1980's, he worked with the Dallas Cowboys on how to use balance and leverage to move opponents.  And I'm sure you know how big pro linebackers can be.


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## Nabakatsu (Jul 28, 2009)

That seems like a better balanced build than mine tho, I'm 5"11.5 and I weigh like 145... what a crappy body for tcma..


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## bekkilyn (Jul 28, 2009)

Even if the teacher becomes the student, it doesn't mean that the teacher will necessarily stop being a teacher. Even the wisest and most experienced teacher is still also a student.

Si-Je, even if you no longer teach "officially", it doesn't mean that people will stop learning from you. Besides, there is something to that old phrase, "Never say never." (Though the Raven/Edgar Allen Poe thing is pretty cool.   )

You have been through a number of major life changes in a very short period of time. It takes time to sort through all those changes...a lot of time. A lot more time than you've had so far. 

It sounds like being a student again is exactly what you need at this time. You are learning and growing. Perhaps you will officially teach again in the future and perhaps not. It's not a decision you need to make right now. It's time to focus on you.

As for one's build and WC, I may be speaking from complete WC newbie ignorance here, but I can't imagine that your skill potential would have anything to do with your height and weight. You simply learn to work with what you have and grow your own unique strengths.


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## Nabakatsu (Jul 28, 2009)

I hear lots of leg techniques would suite my build, I've always been rather infatuated with elbows and hand techniques, oh well


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## Si-Je (Jul 28, 2009)

I don't really want to say who the teacher is because "soon to be ex-hubbie" may read it here. But, he's another big tall guy, and I've only worked with him once. He and his top student were very impressive and both have already shown me techniques I've never seen before. Their tan sau is totally different to the point it doesn't even look like a tan sau.

But, this teacher says he fights alot. Challenges and such. eekk. I've really had enough of all that, and don't have any interest in competition anymore. I did it to promote our school and such, but it wasn't an experience I particuarly enjoyed. Hubbie liked to compete and did so often in San Shao and fighting challeges or sparring "guests" to class. (Those that wanted to test him out) I personally find all that very tiresome. I don't like being challenged and take it more personally. I've been challenged before years ago (more like a friends buddy tried to sucker punch me because my friend told him I was a blackbelt in Ju-Jitsu) Not my cup of tea. (of course he got shoulder thrown to the floor and I had to pin his neck down with my knee and do a standing armbar to keep him from fighting.) lol! good thing I didn't know wing chun in high school! 
Anyways, the whole "challenge" this is very "high school" to me. But alot of people seem to think that these competitions are "proof" of effectiveness of a style in the street. That's why x-hubbie wanted to fight in the cage so badly. He may one day.
I'm just outty. Not doing this silly competition crap anymore, it's really a waste of time.

Sparring with other stylists and training is great, but sport competition proves nothing and takes time and focus away from realistic WC/WT training. IMO.

People always scream for "proof" and when one gives proof then they want video, when they get video the argue that it's fake or that the fight wasn't "fair". I've read up all the crap off YouTube for the past couple of years. You just can't give "proof" to people that have already made up their minds and who choose not to believe in the validity of what their given. I've really learned that it's just a sad waste of my time to try to prove these things to people that choose not to learn about something different.

example: x-hubbie fought and won several San Shao fights and yet that's not good enough because you can't fight on the ground. Takedowns are legal and yet he was never takendown so allowing groundfighting wouldn't matter. (check out Cung Le and the comments on his youtube fights. Especially the ones where he's fighting MMA cage now. People talk that he's not a "good enough fighter" because he doesn't fight on the ground, yet he hasn't been taken to the ground either. not for long anyway! Just because you don't use grappling to fight doesn't make your fighting style unbalanced, inferior or wrong.) 

His past opponents have all been Muy Tai, BJJ/GJJ trained fighters and beated with WT yet people still won't believe that WC/WT can even hold a candle to these stylists. I'm really tired of this view for it's insulting and just untrue.

So what we couldn't pull off getting him a cage fight. Hell, he was even going to fight for free! Not our fault that the promoters suck. So many people say that it's just so easy to get into a cage match ameture. Well, I disagree. That just wasn't our experience.

Wow, lol! So now I'm bitter. It's just been a huge lesson in futility. Even if he got the fight, won, got it on video and posted it on youtube it still wouldn't be "enough" "proof" for all the MMA fans. 

F.Y.I. (as many here may already know) just because a style or fighter uses a choke, throw, or joint lock doen't mean that technique comes origionally from BJJ. lol! Or even japanese ju-jitsu. Many styles have these techniques in their systems. Muy Tai has some even. Chinese chin na, there is a Chinese form of throwing (like Judo, forgot the name) and these styles are older than BJJ and MMA. 

This is why I knew at the end, that when people viewed his fight in video that they would "see" him using BJJ or MMA of some sort in some WT techniuqes. They just won't understand what their seeing. I've seen many new students come in that had the same perception issues when they first see the trapping, chin na, and yes, everyone's favorite! the anti-grappling.

As for all the challenging that goes on in WT/WC and eep!, with my new teacher... we say here in Texas: "If your gonna be the fastest gun in the west then your gonna get shot." I really dont' like getting shot. lol! And try to avoid those opportunities.  I would love to see more WC/WT chunners competing but it's really not a priority. I just can't even stand to watch the MMA matches anymore. Their so predictable, the techniques used are always the same. Everyone fights like everyone else. I would be fun to see a different style of fighting to freshen it up a bit.

And sorry for you folks that really wanted to see a chunner get "trashed" in the ring for disapointing ya.  You can watch plenty of video on that on wingchunfightclub.com that's all those guys (and gals) on that forum do is train WC/WT, fight and post the video. 

Words of wisdom from the "Great" Monty Phython;
"Now for something COMPLETELY different!" and I shall now pull the pin from the holy hand grenade and avoid anymore conversations from the knights who say knee. For I grow weiry of this topic of conversation for like the knights who say knee it has become a skit that went on far longer than it has been funny. The joke is old and moldy. lol! So, I'm gonna go drink me a beer and smoke me a cig for it has just been a really ****** past couple of months and it's high time for Si-Je to have some gear down time, ya'll. 

(man! it's so great to get to be myself without worrying about "representing" someone else! lol! now I can really be as weird as I feel like it! Man that's groovy!)


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## Si-Je (Jul 28, 2009)

I just read my user CP, and the rest of the posts here from earlier. So I wanted to say thank-you to all of you who have been so sweet to my return. artyon:
I wasn't going to ever come back because well., lol, I have such a bad rep and really ticked off some folks. 
But, I should know better, I'm really kinda a punk *** and I don't really fit in the "status quo" or think like most folks about stuff.

Oh, and I'm opinionated and get passionate about some issues. But, I'm human. 
And although I'm "opinionated" these opinions are apt to rapid change upon reciept of new valid knowledge. lol! (yes, I'm a woman, I get to do that..)   

But seriously. I've very touched that so many really valued what I've said here and missed me. Thank you again.
I guess in person I'm alot more "diplomatic" with folks more often because well, you have to be. Like I work for a sweet old man that just happens to have the totally opposite views on life, religion, and politics than I. (and it's a bummer because he loves to talk about these opinions often) so, I bite my tounge all day and as a teacher I've bent over backwards to be patient with students and let them figure some things out on their own without me adding my two cents on my personal opinions on MA. I want them to learn, not follow blindly.  I'm a mommy so not only to I have to speak in a rated G manner 24/7 but also edit "concepts" of life that she's not ready for. ( you mom's know what I mean, and dad's too) I'm repressed, what can I say? lol!

And here, well, I can just tell it like I feel like telling it (without getting fired, or hurting the feelings of a student, etc...) and I probably use this forum to much to "vent" stuff I can't usually say but still really care about.

So, I've pissed off alot of folks. And was embarressed about supporting hubbie so much and having to fess up to the end of that "support". lol!
I've been crazy busy, moving, blah blah, just bummed OUT! :vu:

So, thanks. Ya'll made me feel alot better. As for the folks that like to poke fun at me. ha! I'm a big girl, I can take it. (and I can always cry when no one's looking. Like, Shauw probla. lol!) You'll just have to get in line 'cause there's alot of people waiting for their turn too. I just didn't feel like dealing with that crap from online folks becasue they can "cut in line" and it's just not as important for me to deal with you folks.  You have no effect on the outcome of my life, so why even bother to read it? lol! :321:
But, I do, because I'm bored. So, thank you folks for the entertainment.  I'm glad to know that I'm still punk rock like back in the day regardless of the fact I'm getting old and have a kiddo.  :headbangin:

Ah, to feel young again and PUNK ROCK! Priceless! 
Thank you all, and I missed you too! Guess I'll stay around to entertain and annoy, and hopefully, seriously, to be more helpful too.


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## mook jong man (Jul 29, 2009)

Nabakatsu said:


> Whats that about saying wt is better suited for big strong men? -prepares his tissue paper- wellllllll crap, aint that a shame! Guess it's time to look for a new lineage again! Seriously tho, lol.. might I inquire what insights you have about that little comment? I'm curious to know where your coming from seeing as how I'm even worse than a little fella.. i'm a tall toothpick lookin fella.. Maybe I should go train with samuel kwok or something.. seems to be my same build
> Welcome back again!


 
Don't worry about your build , just do the best with what you've got.
I've known many tall toothpick lookin guys that were really good at Chi Sau and that combined with their reach enabled them to control people quite easily.

 They were also no slouches in the kicking department either , they had fast penetrating kicks and as with their arms they had a significant reach advantage .


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## AceHBK (Jul 29, 2009)

Nab...are you back in the TC?


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## bs10927 (Jul 29, 2009)

Si-Je said:


> I'm not a si-je. I have no verifiable rank with any teacher except my hubbie. he trained me for the past 2-3 years (with a small break for 6 months being preggerz) and well. no.
> I'm not a si-je.
> But, I love to teach folks. Just can't help sharing what I've learned even online.
> But, officially. no.
> ...



damn his bad chi sau!   keep up the training :asian:


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## Nabakatsu (Jul 29, 2009)

Yes sir I am, I've been desperately looking for training/sparring partners too! I've been trying craigslist, that wingchunfightclub forum place.. was on the verge of posting here again too... any chance you'd be interested in getting together one of these days sir?

btw, thanks for your comment mook


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## Si-Je (Jul 29, 2009)

Nab I'm sorry I put so much emphasis on size. your teachers should be great for teaching you what works best for you.
I just had a teacher that had a hard time with showing and drilling techniques in applications that worked better for him than I.

My (hopefully) new teacher is a Chiropractor by trade. Very cool. He's just as tall, but he really has a larger understanding of how the body "moves" and how to break structure without using brute force.

I haven't explained my perspective on the size difference very well. Probably because my instincts and body know more than my head at this stage in my training. And it's hard for me to explain correctly in text.
He can do it so much better! And I'm just now finding out that there were some "bad habits" I was taught that gets me easily trapped and jammed when going against a bigger person. Too much emphasis was taught for me to stay in the opponents center line. (I always favored getting OUT of their centerline) i.e. if I'm in their centerline it's easier for them to attack me, grab, fall on me, kick, etc... Which is what many WC folks focus on is getting out of the opponents centerline.... But not what we focused on. 
He was more "headon" in his approach to WT. Frankly because that worked for him 95 percent of the time. So he was more comfortable teaching that way.

lol! I would get all flustered and pissed and tell him, "just wait!" and get a chair and stand on it. "okay, now do that neck takedown." Well, then he'd do something different. and he'd say, "okay, I see what your mean."
Just needed to be reminded that it's a different angle and perspective from down here. Not that he was doing it on purpose. Just needed to be reminded. And he really only taught the one way. (most of our students were big anyway.)

Now, Chiropractor Sifu, he has made a special little bench in his Kwoon for smaller students to stand on to help him "remember" and to show them better. Groovy. I really liked that. Sometimes with a new technique it's easier to work with someone your size until you get comfortable with it and then work with a taller dude. He doesn't have alot of students so they usually work with him one on one. Good to have a "step stool" so to speak for us short folks.


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## AceHBK (Jul 30, 2009)

Si-Je....Are you in Dallas or Arlington?  I know when I looked into WC in Dallas (I lived in Plano) I was impressed by the Sifu at ww.combatwc.com  My want to check out just to see another Sifu and what they have to offer and can compare to the potential new teacher you have in mind.

Good luck!


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## AceHBK (Jul 30, 2009)

Nabakatsu said:


> Yes sir I am, I've been desperately looking for training/sparring partners too! I've been trying craigslist, that wingchunfightclub forum place.. was on the verge of posting here again too... any chance you'd be interested in getting together one of these days sir?
> 
> btw, thanks for your comment mook


 

Hey I wouldn't mind at all but you would end up teaching me since I stopped taking lessons to enjoy my new motorcycle and the weather but I am looking to get back to taking lessons starting next month.  I certainly don't mind being a practice dummy.  lol

Are you still with your instructor?


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## Nabakatsu (Jul 30, 2009)

Hey there, Yeah, I'm still with my sifu, and our classes our going quite well, we just had emin boztepes main sidai in the usa come out so we could all test for our levels and train up, it was awesome, to be honest, teaching others is something I really want to do, and It helps me make sure my stuff is solid, it would be my pleasure to do so. I'm searching for a job atm so I'll have a bit of free time for probably another week, we have a class tonight right across from the previous location at the balance fitness gym, I'm sure you'd be more than welcome to pop in any time, our workouts have become a bit more intense, anyways, any time you'd wana get together and practice and what not I would be more than willing to, btw.. do you have any gear? gloves.. headgear.. shinpads.. knee pads.. or any of that junk? I still haven't got any myself as of yet.. anyways, nice hearing from me, drop me a line if you can figure out a time/date that sounds good to ya.
      Daniel


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## mook jong man (Jul 31, 2009)

Nabakatsu said:


> to be honest, teaching others is something I really want to do, and It helps me make sure my stuff is solid, l


 
Teaching is great , because each time you teach the students that technique you are also ingraining it into yourself.
Not to mention you don't want to look like a dick in front of the students so you always do the technique with correctness and to the best of your ability

It will also help you socially , I used to be quite a shy character before I started teaching .
But once you are out there in front of people with forty pairs of eyes looking at you , and scrutinising your technique then normal social situations no longer seem to be as daunting.

Just make sure you don't get roped into teaching so much that your own training begins to suffer.
You find that with some schools 2 or 3 instructors usually have to carry the bulk of the teaching burden , while some other instructors do the bare minimum and just cruise.

I don't mean to dampen your enthusiasm but just make sure you set limits on how much you will teach and make sure you get your own training in as well.


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## Nabakatsu (Jul 31, 2009)

Ahh, those are some great points, outside of teaching students below my level after given instructions by sifu in class I haven't really had much of a chance of teaching anybody, at least while they were willing 
If I were to be teaching outside of a class I'm sure I could get some stuff I needed to work on practiced as well, but I could definitely use a good revamping of the basics too, I only have 10 months worth of information to cover before someone would be on my level anyways, I would happily take training/helping some sidais than no training at all. Thanks for your words of wisdom and warning tho, you have good points as always and it's good to keep your head outside of the box which was not the case for me in this moment.


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## Si-Je (Aug 4, 2009)

Ace, WT in Plano is Primo! it's straight up WT Emin style. I've never been out there because my teacher is not well liked. or whatever. ...

As for teaching.,... 
It was my favorite thing to do. My teaching style changes with the student, and I never learned a specific "chart" set of teaching (although that would have really helped me not teach folks too much too fast. My bad habbit. But, some people get it sooner.) 
And for the ones that don't, well..., their my favorite. Because they question you at every turn. (pain in the *** student@ ack! now I have to stop and think. or..., better yet., feel)
And answer. well.
But, hubbie kept switching the teaching "chart" from one or the other of two different lineages trying to "meld" them. 
I just didn't know what to teach. (or even what to start with!)

Dai sau or blitz method? (two totally different "approches to wing chun". but, to "mix" them IS wing chun! ack! where to start?!)
Chain punch or chain palm strike/dai sau(chop to the throat. which is what dai sau should always "go" for. Unless your going for the eyes. lol!)
basic stance (YGM whatever stance) or one leg forward stance?! (I love/hate that stance. Love it because when you get further in WT training you'll do that stance effective. But.,,.. if you do it to "early" and too eagerly then you just have a telegraphing and awkward stance. i.e. don't do it unless you have your opponent's leg "in check" with the stance. otherwise, why do it?!)

But, you find that all of that has it's place in the world of wing chun. Given the right moment, energy or force you "find yourself" in another "weird" position that your "Sifu" never taught you to be in. Is this position or "technique" wrong?
I say, NOT! 
if it works. At least, most if not ALL of the time, then train it no matter what other people say. (especially, if it works for you.) 
but, we should all share why we think the way we do.

I always told student's to "listen to their body". If the body wants to do a thing, then find out why, or for the meantime just follow that nature and see if it works. If it doesn't, then make sure you know WHY. 
Then, ask your Sifu. lol!


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## zepedawingchun (Aug 5, 2009)

Si-Je said:


> . . . .But, hubbie kept switching the teaching "chart" from one or the other of two different lineages trying to "meld" them.
> I just didn't know what to teach. (or even what to start with!)


 
May I ask, what 2 lineages?

I tried 'melding' two different lineages twenty years ago and found it didn't work so well.  So now I only teach one, my current teachers WC lineage.  I find it works much better and doesn't confuse the students.  Easier for them to find their path to mastering WC for themselves.


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## Si-Je (Aug 5, 2009)

zepedawingchun said:


> May I ask, what 2 lineages?
> 
> I tried 'melding' two different lineages twenty years ago and found it didn't work so well. So now I only teach one, my current teachers WC lineage. I find it works much better and doesn't confuse the students. Easier for them to find their path to mastering WC for themselves.


 
Sifu Fung and Sifu Emin.


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## zepedawingchun (Aug 6, 2009)

Si-Je said:


> Sifu Fung and Sifu Emin.


 
Two different sides of the spectrum, Jim Fung Sifu was small and Emin Boztepe Sifu is tall (over 6ft, correct?).  I'm sure that makes a big difference between the two lineages.

Didn't Jim Fung Sifu die a couple of years back?


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## mook jong man (Aug 6, 2009)

zepedawingchun said:


> Two different sides of the spectrum, Jim Fung Sifu was small and Emin Boztepe Sifu is tall (over 6ft, correct?). I'm sure that makes a big difference between the two lineages.
> 
> Didn't Jim Fung Sifu die a couple of years back?


 
Yeah he was my Sifu , he died of throat cancer .
He kept on training almost right up until a couple of  days before he died , his wife said that he would practice his kicks and forms.
Strangely enough death rates from throat cancer for people from Hong Kong are apparently supposed to be pretty high for some reason.


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## Si-Je (Aug 7, 2009)

zepedawingchun said:


> Two different sides of the spectrum, Jim Fung Sifu was small and Emin Boztepe Sifu is tall (over 6ft, correct?). I'm sure that makes a big difference between the two lineages.
> 
> Didn't Jim Fung Sifu die a couple of years back?


Not too long ago. Just sorta happened all of a sudden. It was a really big surprise to me, he was so..., healthy. And he exudes the aura of the most sweetist man ever. (and that's really hard to be as a WC GM. ! humble and just, well., gentle.)

But, what you say about Emin and Fung is correct as far as I'm concerned. Both their Wing Chun is correct and good. it's just way different ends of the spectrum. 

Once again I think of "Prodigal Son". 
Only because the movie has one student that wants to desperatley learn wing chun. .. He meets a teacher (that refuses to teach him of course) and is small and asmathic. lol! he can't breathe! and he's a master...
Then the student meets the small guys brother. (who is big, and tall and tells him not to learn that "faggy" WC from his brother. because he's small, sick and "weak".) Well, after almost getting killed by seeing the daugher in the bathroom, the big guy teaches him a different kind of wing chun.
hence, for me... WC/WT.
And the student finds out that he is the "prodigal son" of both "brothers" of Wing Chun because the passed all the art to him. Both small and large wing chun.
If your bigger its just more effecient to go "straight through" like the blitz method. if your way smaller, then, it's best to go "outdoor".

Anyways, he learns both. and Becomes a master by fighting a master. Man! I just know you guys have seen this damn movie! Why do I have to explain it?! lol!
And if you haven't... get netflixs or something! ack! every wing chunner should watch this movie.! both sides of Wing Chun.

Here is the true difference between the two. WT/WC, The approach of attack and defense. Neither is better than the other, just different. (but the same! lol!)
and some aplications work better for different body types against other body types.

Ex. why would I have a large muscular student and drill him so much early on with pivot, and such? when his best defense would be the blitz method as an early student?
or if I have a very small student, short, not so strong then I would focus on their stucture more and rooting right off the batt. (along with alot of pivoting) Because they need it more sooner.

Don't get me wrong.., I wouldn't keep teachings away from a bigger student on purpose just because they're big. I have always tried to teach big fellas, but they usually get an "attitude" and try to just topple me over. (I hate teaching big men!) because they don't usually listen. Until you make then fall on the ground.
(the body always follows the head. 

But, smaller folk absorb more, and listen more. (and just learn that sooner because we have to. big people can fight it longer and still try to use their strength) 
Just my experience. And, Yes, I'm small. and Emin's big, that's why he has alot of Big Guys as students.  How many women sifu's does he have?
How many does GM Fung? (thank you. point made)

Humm,... I'm a Girl. So, I'll pick.... The master that works best for me. 
Bummer that I can't afford to move to Austrailia. ack!
But, I can't move to Cali either. (and I'm not a big guy and don't favor getting punched all the time in training. lol! I wish I was tougher, but the good lord didn't build me that way)

That's why I love chatting with you guys. I get to learn by chatting, at least even if its without drilling.


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## mook jong man (Aug 7, 2009)

Yep Sifu Jim was small , just slightly taller than me in fact , but he had very heavy hands.
He had the disease for quite a while its just that he didn't tell any of the senior instructors until it was quite well advanced , before that he would still show up and teach them as per usual.

I remember once that Si- Suk Ah Keung come out from Hong Kong for a visit to the school once . He was another of Sigung Tsui's senior students
he wasn't too far behind Sifu Jim in terms of skill , but even smaller still in stature .

Every big guy in the place wanted a piece of him and a shot at the title , it was quite hilarious to see big guys getting thrown all over the place in Chi Sau.
It would start off gentle enough as he just tested their stance with out exerting any effort.

But then you would start to see the tell tale signs of power being applied as his opponents stance started to rock back and forth as they struggled to maintain balance.

Then the trapping and hitting would start , any time they tried to apply force against him they found themselves uprooted or pivoted off to the side and their defence compromised.
But unfortunately we lost him as well in a motor cycle accident just one week after Sifu Jims death.


It would have been extremely hard at that time for Sigung to lose two of his top students one after the other , people who he pretty much regarded as son's.
I think their skill came down to the fact that they were taught by a man who could not rely at all on physical strength only on his skill .

Sigung Tsui although slightly tall was extremely skinny even as a young man , so he couldn't use brute strength even if he wanted to.
Not only that he was a fanatical trainer doing the SLT constantly and practicing stuff like pivoting for five hours .
I couldn't even imagine doing pivoting for one hour let alone five.


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## Nabakatsu (Aug 7, 2009)

That's quite a remarkable story, seems almost like history to me, like the good ol days when kung fu practitioners ran rampant in packs up and down the streets!


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## Domino (Oct 14, 2009)

A Wing Chun-esque technique would be Vitor&#8217;s thunder fist flurry over Wandy at UFC &#8211; Ultimate Brazil.


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## Poor Uke (Oct 14, 2009)

I see where your coming from Domino but they were classic boxing jab cross punches. Look at the elbow elevation, horizontal punches, driving with the leading leg, etc....none of which is WC.

The only Wc-esque thing there was the rapidity of the combos but even that is a boxing staple.


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## dungeonworks (Oct 14, 2009)

Poor Uke said:


> I see where your coming from Domino but they were classic boxing jab cross punches. Look at the elbow elevation, horizontal punches, driving with the leading leg, etc....none of which is WC.
> 
> The only Wc-esque thing there was the rapidity of the combos but even that is a boxing staple.



Not to mention Vitor was very heavy on the front foot.


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## Poor Uke (Oct 15, 2009)

Yep very heavy. I have seen this in a number of places with the claim it is WC.

Anybody esle think its WC?

Coz it aint anything like what I was taught


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## Domino (Oct 15, 2009)

Sure, its not all correct, but chain punching none the less.
And he knocked Silva down


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## hunt1 (Oct 15, 2009)

Be careful when looking at real fighting and saying what is is or isn't wing chun. Wing Chun done for real at full speed with the adreneline pumping facing someone that wants to hurt you is not going to look like class.

 Also we all are the same 2 arms 2 legs. Wing Chun concepts that work will appear or come out in other arts just as things you may usally see in other arts will come out in wing chun.

 As for the rear leg weighting . Not all wing chun uses that exclusively. 50/50 footwork is used in the knives and some front leg weighting can be found in some pole and knife forms as well.


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## Domino (Oct 15, 2009)

I wasn't saying anything. 
Was just for people to see, this obviously successful use of his tools.


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## Poor Uke (Oct 15, 2009)

Domino said:


> I wasn't saying anything.
> Was just for people to see, this obviously successful use of his tools.


 
None of which were from a WC tool box.


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## dungeonworks (Oct 15, 2009)

Domino said:


> Sure, its not all correct, but chain punching none the less.
> And he knocked Silva down



I hate to burst any bubble here but that was boxing....plain and simple, and with horizontal fist, heavy on the front foot, this is not Wing Chun.  It is boxing.  Boxing as well as Karate, Thai Boxing, Hikuta, or any other martial art system will have straight punches too and chain them together.  The only Wing Chun-esque similarity that my novice eyes can see is he has his center line control.


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## dungeonworks (Oct 15, 2009)

hunt1 said:


> Be careful when looking at real fighting and saying what is is or isn't wing chun. Wing Chun done for real at full speed with the adreneline pumping facing someone that wants to hurt you is not going to look like class.
> 
> Also we all are the same 2 arms 2 legs. Wing Chun concepts that work will appear or come out in other arts just as things you may usally see in other arts will come out in wing chun.
> 
> As for the rear leg weighting . Not all wing chun uses that exclusively. 50/50 footwork is used in the knives and some front leg weighting can be found in some pole and knife forms as well.



I never got to the weapons, but in our class HEAVY EMPHASIS was put on the 80/20 weight distribution.  Quite honestly, I never made friends with that part of Wing Chun and felt immobile as hell in that stance.  I find the JKD/Jun Fan movement much freer and normal "to me".  The teacher made the stances work a could stay rooted like a tree in any situation as did his assistant, so I am in no way saying it does not work....just not for me with years of Karate, kickboxing, and TKD in my background.  I like boxing footwork and am finding the footwork in JKD/Kali to be more effective for me.

Any good striking styles are going to meet on some ends and be similar to a point.  Speaking of point, good one Hunt1.


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## hunt1 (Oct 16, 2009)

dungeonworks said:


> I never got to the weapons, but in our class HEAVY EMPHASIS was put on the 80/20 weight distribution.
> It's a shame more folks aren't taught the weapons concepts early. I teach them in the first 6 months because you can not fight effectively against trained folks without them.
> 
> Back leg weighting has its uses and a purpose but the footwork is far more varied then that and wing chun Kuen Kiut are very clear on quick changeable footwork
> ...


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## Domino (Oct 29, 2009)

dungeonworks said:


> The only Wing Chun-esque similarity that my novice eyes can see is he has his center line control.


A key concept of wing chun.


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## dungeonworks (Oct 29, 2009)

Domino said:


> A key concept of wing chun.




...but not exclusively.


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## Poor Uke (Oct 30, 2009)

Yep I think it is a major diservice that alot of WCers do to the rest of the MA world. The idea that only WC has thought of things like centre line or relaxation or going with the flow etc this list goes on and on and on......


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## chinaboxer (Oct 30, 2009)

Poor Uke said:


> Yep I think it is a major diservice that alot of WCers do to the rest of the MA world. The idea that only WC has thought of things like centre line or relaxation or going with the flow etc this list goes on and on and on......


i agree 100%


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## Domino (Nov 3, 2009)

Poor Uke said:


> None of which were from a WC tool box.


 
Different interpretations on here, will leave it there.


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## dungeonworks (Nov 3, 2009)

Domino said:


> Different interpretations on here, will leave it there.



You are correct, but centerline control "happens" in other arts as opposed to being a detailed and integral curriculum to WC/WT/VT.  For example:

Karate/Tae Kwon Do: Front leg front kicks, reverse punches
Boxing:  Jabs, jab/cross (which is what I see when watching Vitor), flurry
Muay Thai: Cross/knee, elbows into Clinch
Fillipino Arts: Gunting and Panatukan (to an extent force the opponents offline)

WC/WT/VT goes deeper into it and are "centerline hogs" in everything from stances to techniques, but it is far from being absent in other systems.


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## KamonGuy2 (Nov 27, 2009)

dungeonworks said:


> You are correct, but centerline control "happens" in other arts as opposed to being a detailed and integral curriculum to WC/WT/VT. For example:
> 
> Karate/Tae Kwon Do: Front leg front kicks, reverse punches
> Boxing: Jabs, jab/cross (which is what I see when watching Vitor), flurry
> ...


 
Definately. Some chunners o the extreme with centre line theory. Wan Kam Leung really emaphasises how there are like 10 different centre lines in the body etc

Obviously most arts will have a loose emphasis on the centre line but only because the good points of attack are all down the centre line (the head, the groin, the throat etc) 

Wing chun really does exploit the centre line extremely well and it is important in clinching, chi sao, fighting drills, formwork, EVERYTHING


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## JGreber (Dec 29, 2009)

Hey Si-Je, remember me. I'm sorry to hear the news. If your still interested in training, come up to the Fretz Rec. Centrer in Richardson. I teach on Mon. and Wed. nights from 7-830pm. Hope to see you soon!


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## Si-Je (Jan 8, 2010)

JGreber said:


> Hey Si-Je, remember me. I'm sorry to hear the news. If your still interested in training, come up to the Fretz Rec. Centrer in Richardson. I teach on Mon. and Wed. nights from 7-830pm. Hope to see you soon!


 
Hey! yeah I remember ya! I'm just not living anywhere near richardson these days, can't make it to class through traffic at that time. But, thank you so much for the invite! When I get used to being a "successful" single mom and have a bit more cash, I'll definately go rollin' around to see other chunners.

man, I read a few posts on here about centerline and I just can't stand it. That's a good example why I've taken a "break" from talking about WC/WT online lately. "hubbie" (I like to call him "mr. wonderful" lol!) didn't teach me very much of WT much less the better stuff from Fung. 
That's been hard to realize and deal with (on top of other things, which I won't go into detail. just trust me when I say... he's a bad... bad... man)

But, the bright side!  I found another teacher who is very good at whatever "lineage" he practices. (I don't much care, other than the fact he teaches me what will work for me.) 

P.S. Mookman, I'm not givin' up Dai sau. lol! he really wants me to, but he showed me a totally simalar technique that is used differently than off a hook punch. neat! But, it's still dai sau. lol! 

Me and old hubbie have been seperated for almost a year now with no help for me raising the kiddo, or anything. fact. he's been sleeping and living with other women. (I find this out because the message me and "confess" their "sins" to living with him for a couple of months. hey., if the dude isn't gonna tell you he's married, then how can I be mad at a chick I never met? lol!) But, the fun part. He came by the gym to test my teacher out.  lol! 
Got slapped about, he did. So sorry I wasn't there to see it. (actually, glad I wasn't. 'cause he lets me bring my 3 year old to class, as distracting as that is, and I wouldn't have liked to have a domestic "thing" happen in class.) That's why I haven't been training these past 8 months. Because of my ******** husband. He'll just find out where I'm taking and **** it all up. And disturb my child.

Honestly,. I don't think that a "man" that abandons their family gets "visitation rights". And they don't have the right to come to your work, school, or kwoon and cause and scene and embarrase you and damage my daughter for life. no thank you. 
My fault for falling for a guy and such. won't do it again. anyways.
I really like Sifu.
He knows his ****, and is teaching me more about "centerline" than I knew before. I mean. I knew it, but just couldn't apply it with the crap that "hubbie" half assed taught me.

For the record, I know NOTHING of WT (apparently) because he only taught me bits and peices, and I know NOTHING of WC (from Fung) because he, again didn't teach me all of it or didn't know much of it.
Everything I've said on here about WC/WT was my own "theory". Always was. Albiet flawed, but, my own observations from taking the art and learning a wee bit. 
I've got a loooooong way to go. And I'm looking foreward to the journey. Wtih me and my daughter.


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## jks9199 (Jan 8, 2010)

Si-je, if you're description here is anywhere close to accurate -- contact a domestic violence victim's services person or support group.  You're describing some very heavy, very scary circumstances, and they can help you do things like get protection orders against him.  You're descripton here is bordering on stalking and on mental/psychological abuse.


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## Si-Je (Jan 8, 2010)

jks9199 said:


> Si-je, if you're description here is anywhere close to accurate -- contact a domestic violence victim's services person or support group. You're describing some very heavy, very scary circumstances, and they can help you do things like get protection orders against him. You're descripton here is bordering on stalking and on mental/psychological abuse.


 
Thanks. I know. You really think so?
you have no idea! 
Can't get a protection order, he hasn't hurt me lately. and to get a protection order you have to be "victised" recently. So, since that hasn't happened in like 4 years, the state won't give me a protection order. lol! great...
I just have to disapear, with my kiddo. Like I've done for the past 9 months.
Still trying to get a divorce, but it's so expensive! ack! (they want 5,000 just to get it all done. freakin' lawyers!) 
I'm just supporting us and staying under the radar.

I still think it's neat that "Sifu" "slapped" him around a bit. Hey, if he's gonna go to someonelses's school and act the fool then he deserves it! lol! (still wish I could have seen it!)
he actually met my husband, that's probably why he's giving me free lessons, and doesn't mind if I have to bring kiddo to class. It's not like they have a "daycare", they just let her be, well, herself. I can't explain it. . totally cool guy..

No, really , ?! stalking.!  ha! If Jesse knew where I worked or lived then the "game" woudl be over. I'd lose the job or the home we've been living at for the past 6 months. 
I won't let that happen. don't worry. I know how to "disapear" from right under your nose. It's pretty easy. 

Your a sweet guy. thanks for the concern. 
I'm just glad I can seriously train now, and that I've found a Sifu that understands why I HAVE to train.


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## Si-Je (Jan 8, 2010)

Man! Dude! you made me cry. now, I've got to go somke a cig and drink a beer and get ready for bed. 
Ya'll are nice folks, and I'm sorry for every talking trash to any one of you. 
I was in a different place then. lol!
I found out that he made posts in my name later. so, oopps. 
Should have made a password even a hubbie wouldn't know. That's why I've been gone so long. 
I still KNOW that a gal can defend herself from a guy stronger, taller, and with more training than her. Been there done that. lol!
All it takes is heart.
yes, heart.
And need.
Just for all the gals out there that have it rough, you can kick his ***! And split too!


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## Poor Uke (Jan 8, 2010)

Good luck Si-Je


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## KamonGuy2 (Jan 8, 2010)

Si-Je said:


> Hey! yeah I remember ya! I'm just not living anywhere near richardson these days, can't make it to class through traffic at that time. But, thank you so much for the invite! When I get used to being a "successful" single mom and have a bit more cash, I'll definately go rollin' around to see other chunners.
> 
> man, I read a few posts on here about centerline and I just can't stand it. That's a good example why I've taken a "break" from talking about WC/WT online lately. "hubbie" (I like to call him "mr. wonderful" lol!) didn't teach me very much of WT much less the better stuff from Fung.
> That's been hard to realize and deal with (on top of other things, which I won't go into detail. just trust me when I say... he's a bad... bad... man)
> ...


Oh my word!! I am so sorry to hear this!!
Welll the good news is that I will be going to America this year for two weeks (probably Chicago). I will give you free training and I will talk to your husband if you want. In the meantime, enjoy life. Times get hard, but the human spirit always endures. You seem to have a passion for training - so enjoy it. Bad people get bad things happening to them. Bullies end up getting stood up to, and usually end up in jail. Don't let him drag you down, and if you need a chat, we are always here... x


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