# Anti Second Amendment groups and celebrities listed



## AC_Pilot (Feb 21, 2005)

OK, here's a site where those who would deny us our natural birthright to self defense are listed. Businesses, groups, celebrities. Please boycott them if you value your liberties. 

http://www.anticcw.com/anti_celebs.html

Some of my favorite actors and actresses are on this list and it's a crying shame that they have made so much money portraying firearms in both positive and negative lights, (which is the reality, guns in law abiding hands do way more good than the bad done by criminals, therefore being _positive_ here in America, by a _long stretch_) these celebrities then spend their dollars and "popularity capital" in the effort to strip us of our rights. I'm boycotting all of them in the future. Probably the one that bugs me the most, actor wise is Sean Connery, the best of the "bonds" and a great actor. Another was the late Lauren Bacall, one of the most excellent actresses of her day. Hollywierd corrupts these people and they fall to the darkside to fit in, I believe. Tom Selleck and Charleston Heston are examples of faithful patriots who bucked the Orwellian trend at personal cost to their careers. I buy every one of their movies I can find, on DVD, as my small way of patronizing them.

I sent Sean Connery an e-mail describing how much I have admired and enjoyed most of his films and subsequently how disappointing it was to discover he was working to eliminate my rights. Maybe he'll never read it but I sent it anyway.


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## Cruentus (Feb 21, 2005)

I think that this might be giving to much wieght to celebrity opinions. 

I don't care if Loius Gosset Jr. said something against guns one day, or if Maralyn Manson is anti christian, or if Angelina Joli is really a closet lesbian, or whatever. They are just entertainers. If they entertain me, then great, if not, then I won't watch their stuff. They are just human beings like everyone else, with opinions that are both valid and flawed like anyone else. I think our society puts way too much wieght on these people's average opinions. They only have as much "power" as we are willing to give them, and giving 2 craps about their opinions on gun control or the president or anything else is giving them too much, IMO.

I think that better time could be spent on educating the public, as an informed public will not try to or allow others to trounce on our right. I think time could be better spent petitioning legislators and people in our government to educate them and fight for our rights. 

So, time permitting, that is what I focus on. 

Paul


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## Cruentus (Feb 21, 2005)

Also, I wouldn't believe everything you read.

I question the validity of this list, as I am wondering how some of the names got there. I am wondering what the standard was for putting someone on this list. 

Gavin De Becker was included on the list, for example. He wrote a very good book called "The gift of fear," as well as other titles that are related to self-protection. I can't see how he would be against carrying.

So, I think I would think I would have to look at each case and decide what is relevent to this list...as if that is something I have time for...

Paul


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## michaeledward (Feb 21, 2005)

Which of these people called for the repeal of the 2nd Amendment? Can you point me to the statements that quote their statements.


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## Feisty Mouse (Feb 21, 2005)

michaeledward said:
			
		

> Which of these people called for the repeal of the 2nd Amendment? Can you point me to the statements that quote their statements.


*singing*  We love you Michael...oh yes we do-ooo!  We love you Michael...it's really tru-ue!


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## AC_Pilot (Feb 21, 2005)

Answer:

*They all either contributed $$ to anti gun groups like Handgun Control inc or were actually members of the same groups or on the boards of these groups, or made public anti second amendment comments.*


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## Tgace (Feb 21, 2005)

Tulisan said:
			
		

> Gavin De Becker was included on the list, for example. He wrote a very good book called "The gift of fear," as well as other titles that are related to self-protection. I can't see how he would be against carrying.


While I agree 100% with everything else you have said on this thread (and on almost all the other ones lately too...my how times change huh?  ). He's right on this one. "Gift" is a great book and DeBecker knows his stuff...but he is an "anti" personal firearms owner type.....


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## michaeledward (Feb 21, 2005)

AC_Pilot said:
			
		

> Answer:
> 
> *They all either contributed $$ to anti gun groups like Handgun Control inc or were actually members of the same groups or on the boards of these groups, or made public anti second amendment comments.*


Please post some 'public anti-second amendment comments', and the organizations from which these comments came.

'Anti second Amendment Comments' just seems so vague. Let's see how these guys want to tear down the Bill of Rights.


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## AC_Pilot (Feb 21, 2005)

Here is the thread over at packingdotorg that started this today.. I am posting the link because the anti-CCW site owner ("Bear") makes clear that every entry is backed up with facts. I don't post this for the anti gun *bigots *we have scurrying about, but for right minded people who are seeking truth, perhaps for those who will help us *run these businesses out of business*, as pro gun people helped to do the anti gun K-Mart, with their hypocrite spokewoman, Rosie "armed bodyguard" O'Donnell. 

Here's the thread:

http://www.packing.org/talk/thread.jsp/36025/

I'm not answering individual questions to give happiness to _antis_ on this site.. go to the anti-CCW site and ask him yourself.. but you really don't want to know, do you? Ignorance is bliss.. and _none_ are more ignorant than antis.. ignorant of facts, ignorant about firearms, ignorant of what a G-d given right is..


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## michaeledward (Feb 21, 2005)

<my best Ronald Reagan imitation>

Well, there you go again ... 

the title of this thread is 'Anti Second Amendment', but you seem to be digressing into an 'Anti Carrying Concealed Weapon' arguement. Of course, those two discussion are not exactly the same thing.

Do you suppose a 'Well Regulated Militia' has the need to hide its weaponry?


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## Cryozombie (Feb 21, 2005)

Ya know AC...

No one is gonna take away our firearms.

Why?

Cuz, lets face it... We have them, and the people who dont think we should, well, they dont.

Dont think they will beat those odds any time soon.

Oh wait... Hypocrites like Mayor Daley of Chicago, disarm the populace while retaining their weapons.

My bad.


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## Feisty Mouse (Feb 21, 2005)

AC_Pilot said:
			
		

> Here is the thread over at packingdotorg that started this today.. I am posting the link because the anti-CCW site owner ("Bear") makes clear that every entry is backed up with facts. I don't post this for the anti gun *bigots *we have scurrying about, but for right minded people who are seeking truth, perhaps for those who will help us *run these businesses out of business*, as pro gun people helped to do the anti gun K-Mart, with their hypocrite spokewoman, Rosie "armed bodyguard" O'Donnell.
> 
> Here's the thread:
> 
> ...


Well, if you refuse to have a civilized discussion with people who want to discuss the issues - or the title of your thread that you posted - that is your choice.

Name-calling and...well, more name-calling...really aren't going to help any kind of dialogue, however.


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## Cruentus (Feb 21, 2005)

Tgace said:
			
		

> While I agree 100% with everything else you have said on this thread (and on almost all the other ones lately too...my how times change huh?  ). He's right on this one. "Gift" is a great book and DeBecker knows his stuff...but he is an "anti" personal firearms owner type.....



Wow. That sucks (the part about DeBecker, not the part about agreeing...I'm glad that times can change   ). I did not know that about him. I like DeBecker's work in "gift of fear"; I would like to hear the why's from him on being anti-carry, if I ever had the chance to meet him or exchange e-mails or something. You never know.

Also, and present company excluded of course - I have met cops and educated people who are "anti-carry" before. I guess when you have to deal with bad behavior all the time from people, it makes one skeptical about society in general, and giving people in society the ability to carry something that could take the life of another.

In my own personal experience as well, I have seen so much bad behavior from the "CCW crowd" at the range and such, that it makes me cringe. I've thought many times that, "these idiots are going to get themselves or another innocent killed if they ever have to use their weapon!" It's not the tactics that got me, it was the overall careless behavior and utter disregard for safety.

I believe in the right to carry, and I think that an "armed society" works. But sometimes I can see the other point of view as well, even if I don't agree...

Paul


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## Tgace (Feb 21, 2005)

I think he makes his stand in his second book, i believe its called FEAR LESS. Although I thought he made some anti gun statements in the first book too. Cant remember, Ill have to read it again.


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## Rich Parsons (Feb 21, 2005)

AC_Pilot said:
			
		

> Here is the thread over at packingdotorg that started this today.. I am posting the link because the anti-CCW site owner ("Bear") makes clear that every entry is backed up with facts. I don't post this for the anti gun *bigots *we have scurrying about, but for right minded people who are seeking truth, perhaps for those who will help us *run these businesses out of business*, as pro gun people helped to do the anti gun K-Mart, with their hypocrite spokewoman, Rosie "armed bodyguard" O'Donnell.
> 
> Here's the thread:
> 
> ...





AC_Pilot,

I find this post insulting and derogatory. 

To make the comment that I or someone else are bigots because we do not agree with you, is not acceptable behavior, form this posters point of view.

To assume that the only right minded people are those that agree with you is closed minded and also unacceptable, in my opinion. 

As to the second Amendment, I believe in it.  Why because I believe in the U.S. Constitution. Yet if I choose not to own a gun, it does not make a "Sheeple". I enjoy shooting from time to time and try to understand basic gun safety and procedures. Yet, if I choose not to own one, it does not make me less of a person, nor does it make me less or a person if I choose to defend myself with a knife or even a training knife.  I have found the times that I have had a weapon on me, and a weapon has been drawn, I have not had the time to get to it. I have had to react first, and there was no time to pull the knife or to reach for something in the pocket. I had to use my hands immediately to defend myself.  So, if I choose based upon my personal experience with the legal systems and experiences in actual situations to defend myself in ways other than your choosing then that is fine, just open your mind and do not assume that I am wrong just because I am different or have different opinions from you.

For you to make these comments is unacceptable behavior in my opinion. 

This is my personal opinion and my personal thoughts on this subject.


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## Cruentus (Feb 21, 2005)

> I'm not answering individual questions to give happiness to antis on this site.. go to the anti-CCW site and ask him yourself.. but you really don't want to know, do you? Ignorance is bliss.. and none are more ignorant than antis.. ignorant of facts, ignorant about firearms, ignorant of what a G-d given right is..



AC_Pilot,

I think that asking how the list was compiled is a fair question. I think that "public anti-second amendment statements" is a bit vague, and it is fair to ask what the criteria is for compiling these lists. And since you're the one who posted the link and made the arguement that we need to boycott the people listed, I think you have some responsability here to provide this information.

Also, I am going to offer a little critique here, so I ask that you don't take this too personally. I am on the same page with you on a lot of aspects regarding the right to bear arms. I can also understand that you are passionate about your position and beliefs. I think that guys like you and me who believe that an "armed society" works have a responsability to be educate and to be open to dialog and respectful discourse with others who don't agree. While it can be fusterating at times, and while we won't change everyone's minds, we will enevitably change some. I've seen it happened many times. However, if we take an inflammatory tone, calling those who don't agree with us "ignorant" or "sheeple," and if we treat those who we believe are wrong in a condensending manner, then we are failing to own up to our responsabilities as second amendment rights activists. Although we can't please everyone, but if many people walk away from a conversation with us about the right to bear arms (whether online or otherwise) thinking "what an ***" or "what a wierdo," then we have failed to do our jobs as responsible gun owners. All our membership fee's, bumper stickers, and catch phrases are pretty damned useless if we give people reason and justification to not see our side because of our bad behavior.

It is our responsability to educate, not insult, and it is our responsability to represent our side in an approachable fashion.

If my post upsets you, please PM me. I hope not though, and I hope that you take to heart what I say...

Paul Janulis


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## Cruentus (Feb 21, 2005)

Tgace said:
			
		

> I think he makes his stand in his second book, i believe its called FEAR LESS. Although I thought he made some anti gun statements in the first book too. Cant remember, Ill have to read it again.



Yea, I have to read it again myself...

Paul


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## Ceicei (Feb 21, 2005)

Tulisan said:
			
		

> AC_Pilot,
> 
> I think that asking how the list was compiled is a fair question. I think that "public anti-second amendment statements" is a bit vague, and it is fair to ask what the criteria is for compiling these lists.


 It is a fair question, I agree. Many, I think, are basically dependent upon what was/are reported by the media (for what the celebrities said). As for businesses, it is pretty much clear-cut and dry. Their policies are examined and if found not to allow guns on their premises or to be a barrier for employees to carry, these businesses make the list. Maybe others can provide more clarification about the criteria. Much of the information and discussion about these issues can be found at http://www.packing.org.



			
				Tulisan said:
			
		

> However, if we take an inflammatory tone, calling those who don't agree with us "ignorant" or "sheeple," and if we treat those who we believe are wrong in a condensending manner, then we are failing to own up to our responsabilities as second amendment rights activists. Although we can't please everyone, but if many people walk away from a conversation with us about the right to bear arms (whether online or otherwise) thinking "what an ***" or "what a wierdo," then we have failed to do our jobs as responsible gun owners. It is our responsability to educate, not insult, and it is our responsability to represent our side in an approachable fashion.
> Paul Janulis


 Excellent points. I do agree very strongly with the concept of "an armed society is a polite society". However, it only takes an armed few who misbehave or speak improperly to cause some people in questioning the value of the second amendment. 

      - Ceicei


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## KenpoTex (Feb 22, 2005)

Tgace said:
			
		

> I think he makes his stand in his second book, i believe its called FEAR LESS. Although I thought he made some anti gun statements in the first book too. Cant remember, Ill have to read it again.


If I'm not mistaken, _The Gift of Fear_ (at least the edition I read) has an appendix devoted to his rant against firearms.  I found this kind of strange because I thought most of the stuff in the book was pretty good.

As far as the celebrities go, It strikes me as hypocritical that many of them are anti-gun when many of them became famous by starring in violent movies.  Beyond that, I don't really give a rusty F*** what any of them have to say.


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## dearnis.com (Feb 22, 2005)

As I recall (and I will plead being out of it after the travel day from hell coming home from Arizona yesterday....) DeBecker grew up in an extremely abusive household, and he relates at least one incident of a male figure firing rounds at his mother.  And he is extremely against personal ownership of weapons.  That being said, his company provides armed security, and the alleged Michael Moore "bodyguard" arrested in NY trying to board a plane armed was in fact a DeBecker employee.  
To me this ranks right up there with Diane Feinstein's CCW permit and Ted Kennedy's private goon squad.  DeBecker says some worthwhile things, but I never recommend his work without a strong disclaimer.


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## RBaddorf (Feb 23, 2005)

Chad,
You were here in Arizona and didn't give Becky and I a call? I'm cut to the quick. 

Ron


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## dearnis.com (Feb 23, 2005)

Sorry guys...didn't make it out your way.  If I had had a few more days I would have hit Yuma.  Most of the time was up in Paulden, and my time was mostly scheduled for me.
But no worries, I'll be back out.


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## hardheadjarhead (Feb 23, 2005)

AC_Pilot in bold:

*I'm not answering individual questions to give happiness to antis on this site...*

You've never answered any individual questions that we've asked on any other topic.  Why start now?


Regards,


Steve


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## Cryozombie (Feb 23, 2005)

hardheadjarhead said:
			
		

> AC_Pilot in bold:
> 
> *I'm not answering individual questions to give happiness to antis on this site...*
> 
> ...


  From the top of his Posts:

AC_Pilot 
                                   Banned User

  Dont think he will ever, based on that...


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## Gray Phoenix (Feb 24, 2005)

Rights are never taken away, they are most often given freely. The "Well regulated" clause was never intended to be put into the 2nd. The whole point of the 2nd was to provide the people a protection from the very government they created. 

For the record, having read previous posts, I dont care if someone owns a gun or not. I dont even care if they like guns or not. To me firearms are a tool. No different than a hammer. I can have just as much fun building/decontructing something with my hammer as I can with any one of my numerous firearms at a range.

The discord between ideologies comes from fear. One person fears another, so to reduce or remove that fear, you must take away the perceived power of the offender. A person with gun could weild power over life. This is a very frightening thing for some people. I believe that the fear is transferred from the offending person to the inanimate object because it is easier to control. Be it the loud noise, the horrors of war broadcast for all to see, the reason is superfilous, but people have grown to fear guns. It is a misplaced fear. I have dozens of firearms, not one has ever been used to kill anybody. I have registered "assault weapons". They are really fun things when used to kill paper. I had a kid a range walk up with his dad and ask me why I needed such a rifle, what could I use it for? I thought it rather obvious, as I was shooting it at a rifle range. My answer: I shoot it at a rifle range.

The anti gun groups true fear is of people they dont know or trust. This is why our country has passed an ever increasing level of regulation and restrictions on every facet of our lives. The gun issue is just another symptom of a much larger fear: anything that cant be controlled. Cars kill more people than guns. Evil does exist, and it has no intention of following the law. Yet we dont ban cars, and we tell people who would obey the law, not to fear for the Police will protect you. 

Police are placebos. Sorry to all the cops our there, but I believe my first line of defense is myself. I never saw a homicide detective help the victim of a homicide. The didnt help either. It is illegal to kill, yet people kill.  

You cant pass behavior modification laws, and expect evil to obey. 

Bottom Line: To ban firearms would only serve those who would still have them anyway. It would alleviate a fear but the true problem would remain

Anywho its midnight and I'm rambling.  

"From my cold dead hand!!!"


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## TonyM. (Feb 28, 2005)

Curious. I'm familiar with all the names on the celebrity list and appreciate most of their work. That said as for consulting any of them for their opinions on weighty matters, there were only 23 people on the list I would even consider and none of them would have been first picks.


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