# ninjutsu kicking other than sokugyaku geri front push kick



## DuskB4Dawn (Nov 1, 2011)

Hi. I was wondering is there more kicking in ninjutsu than just the sokugyaku geri front push kick. I'm sure there has got to be more kicks than that.
then why is it I've only really seen the basic front kick and fake to eyes front kick variation?

I'm not talking fancy spin kicks. but side kicks and back kicks for example.


----------



## Troy Wideman (Nov 1, 2011)

Hello,

There are other kicks, there is a side kick variant, "ushiro nasai geri" etc. There are also variations of other kicks in the different ryu ha.


Kind Regards,

Troy Wideman


----------



## Chris Parker (Nov 1, 2011)

You've seen a lot more, so you know. You've seen, on a regular basis, soku yaku keri, soku gyaku keri, kakato keri, soku shin to, and sokki ken, as well as tobi geri and occasionally kakushi keri. Then there's variants of yoko geri (not like a karate form, though), sokuho keri, keri kudaki, keri kaeshi, and so on, some of which you've seen, but not that often. In terms of why you've only seen what you've seen, a lot of kicks turn up in schools such as Kukishinden Ryu and Shinden Fudo Ryu, and you haven't gone through them. Yet.


----------



## DuskB4Dawn (Nov 2, 2011)

oh yes I forgot to mention front kick to the groin. and maybe a angled front kick from from a koto ryu kata but that is basically the same. but I don't remember seeing so many different kicks? could I have possibly forgotten ??? hmmm that is really all I can remember doing. I can't really understand all the names but im gonna google them now to see what it means. I know the yoko geri from karate avery impressive kick indeed. What about some high kicks or spinning back kicks is there any of those in Ninjutsu. perhaps there is no need for them as its all about fast footwork and being agile and able and to move in and out fast with the legs. a lot of kicks from karate and tai kwon do put you of balance. is this why there is not so many kicks and more striking in ninjutsu?


----------



## Chris Parker (Nov 2, 2011)

Right, some things need to be explained here.



DuskB4Dawn said:


> oh yes I forgot to mention front kick to the groin. and maybe a angled front kick from from a koto ryu kata but that is basically the same. but I don't remember seeing so many different kicks? could I have possibly forgotten ??? hmmm that is really all I can remember doing. I can't really understand all the names but im gonna google them now to see what it means. I know the yoko geri from karate avery impressive kick indeed. What about some high kicks or spinning back kicks is there any of those in Ninjutsu. perhaps there is no need for them as its all about fast footwork and being agile and able and to move in and out fast with the legs. a lot of kicks from karate and tai kwon do put you of balance. is this why there is not so many kicks and more striking in ninjutsu?



Perhaps reading through what I've been posting in the "History and it's Influence" thread could answer a lot of your questions here. In short, this ain't TKD. The arts we study are said to have come from a time when armour was worn, and if you try the types of kicks you're thinking about in armour, you fall over, damage your own leg (knee or ankle), it's too slow, and there's no power. They go against the body mechanics, power generation, and the basic way our art moves. There is no place for them in our system, as all they do is give you an option that you aren't training to make powerful, as you're training other methods instead. And, for the record, the Yoko Geri from karate is only impressive in their context, it has really no place with us.

If you want those actions, they are not found in our systems, because, in our system, they don't work. 

Oh, and a correction to your thread title, Soku Yaku is the sole of the foot (in a thrusting kick), Soku Gyaku is the top of the foot.


----------



## jks9199 (Nov 2, 2011)

Chris Parker said:


> Perhaps reading through what I've been posting in the "History and it's Influence" thread could answer a lot of your questions here. In short, this ain't TKD. The arts we study are said to have come from a time when armour was worn, and if you try the types of kicks you're thinking about in armour, you fall over, damage your own leg (knee or ankle), it's too slow, and there's no power. They go against the body mechanics, power generation, and the basic way our art moves. There is no place for them in our system, as all they do is give you an option that you aren't training to make powerful, as you're training other methods instead. And, for the record, the Yoko Geri from karate is only impressive in their context, it has really no place with us.
> 
> If you want those actions, they are not found in our systems, because, in our system, they don't work.



This is something that's important to realize about any style and about adapting to function.  Things are there for a reason, and developed around that reason.  If you look at Bando, as I've been taught, we count 9 basic kicks (2 versions of front kick, a side kick, 2 back kicks, round kick, a kind of catch-all, 2 crescent kicks).  Each serves a purpose, each has a combative role according to our principles.  But... for my working set for DT?  That list gets shortened.  Front kick, round kick, the catch all, and a back kick.  Why?  Because when you add a gun belt, most people can't really do lots of the others.  Someone out there probably can... but not me.  In class, I teach to kick stomach or chest high, or even higher.  Functionally?  Rarely above the belt.  Again, with the realities of clothing and equipment -- that's about as high as my leg is going to go.  Again -- this is one reason to understand the origin and history of your art.  Bando, as I've learned it, is a synthesis of many other arts.  They've been distilled around common principles and rules.  So we don't kick like TKD -- or any of the ninjutsu approaches.


----------



## DuskB4Dawn (Nov 19, 2011)

here is a video I like to watch about Ninjutsu kicking (Keri)
[video=youtube_share;x8SM6zxgo9I]http://youtu.be/x8SM6zxgo9I[/video]
don't know about the hook kick in the end on happo Geri - kicking in 8 directions
I think these kicks are simple and efficient enough and can be used to kick in different directions.


----------



## Cyriacus (Nov 19, 2011)

Ill pitch in for a second, and say that I think, really, that You dont really need more than Front Kicks, Side Kicks, and Turning Kicks. I mean, others have their uses, definitely. But You dont especially need more than those.

That said, wouldnt it depend on the Ninjutsu System?


----------



## Sanke (Nov 19, 2011)

DuskB4Dawn said:


> here is a video I like to watch about Ninjutsu kicking (Keri)
> [video=youtube_share;x8SM6zxgo9I]http://youtu.be/x8SM6zxgo9I[/video]
> don't know about the hook kick in the end on happo Geri - kicking in 8 directions
> I think these kicks are simple and efficient enough and can be used to kick in different directions.


 
That REALLY doesn't look like ninjutsu kicking to me. I mean, some of them seem kinda right, the front kicks he does for his happo geri thingo, but even then they don't look very good. And those side kicks dont look very powerful at all, not to mention that scoop kick thing.
That said, I've not seen much of the dakentaijutsu (shinden fudo ryu, I think?), so take this for what it's worth. 
I've seen this guy before, he's not really the best source for this honestly. 
And the spinning hook kick was so out of place, it honestly takes away all his credibility for me.


Sanke on the move.


----------



## Chris Parker (Nov 19, 2011)

He's a distance student of RVD's, who decided he's then able to offer his own "over the internet" distance learning himself... and it's all frankly terrible. This is one of the worst, but his knife defence clip is downright dangerous, his Iai series is sadly lacking, and more. Not someone to emulate or watch, Dusk.... take my word on that.

In terms of your not seeing much Dakentaijutsu, Sanke, remember that Roemke here is using it in the general "striking and kicking and blocking" meaning, rather than the syllabus specific usage found in, say, Shinden Fudo Ryu and Kukishinden Ryu. So, in his usage, any kicks, strikes, or blocks that you've seen is Dakentaijutsu. The term itself refers to "striking fists body art", with "Da" being also pronounced "Uchi", meaning "strike", "Ken" here refering to "fist/weapon", and of course, "tai" meaning "body", and "jutsu" refering to "art".

Oh, and Cyriacus? "Turning kicks" such as found in TKD are completely out of place for us, so we wouldn't have them involved in an essential kicking list.


----------



## Tanaka (Nov 24, 2011)

You do realize that not everything taught in Kan is "Ninjutsu"
Also I'd save questions like these for class.


----------



## Cyriacus (Nov 24, 2011)

Chris Parker said:


> Oh, and Cyriacus? "Turning kicks" such as found in TKD are completely out of place for us, so we wouldn't have them involved in an essential kicking list.



Yeah, but I was speaking Generally.
Theyre not really Essential anyway - Theyre really only Good for a quick snap at someones Ribs, I think.


----------



## Chris Parker (Nov 24, 2011)

Ha, we tend more to just stomp straight through ribs, like kicking a door in.... very fun!


----------



## Cyriacus (Nov 24, 2011)

Chris Parker said:


> Ha, we tend more to just stomp straight through ribs, like kicking a door in.... very fun!


Now Im Curious. Do You favor the Heel or the Ball of the Foot?


----------



## Chris Parker (Nov 24, 2011)

The kick is with the heel. That lines up the leg behind to provide support and power to the kick itself, the ball of the foot wouldn't allow such. We really don't use the ball of the foot much (there are some applications, but nothing like what you're describing or what is found in TKD), our most common impact weapons are the shin, heel, and toes themselves. That's followed by the knee.


----------



## Cyriacus (Nov 24, 2011)

Chris Parker said:


> The kick is with the heel. That lines up the leg behind to provide support and power to the kick itself, the ball of the foot wouldn't allow such. We really don't use the ball of the foot much (there are some applications, but nothing like what you're describing or what is found in TKD), our most common impact weapons are the shin, heel, and toes themselves. That's followed by the knee.


Heh - Having learnt both Striking Surfaces, I can see how using the Heel would be more practical in Ninjutsu Systems.
Id say that perhaps the Ball of the Foot may be better for Leg Kicking, but that may just be what Im Comfortable with.

But that aside, the use of the Toes is interesting. I can more or less surmise the Methodology, But what are the Targets?


----------



## Chris Parker (Nov 24, 2011)

Cyriacus said:


> But that aside, the use of the Toes is interesting. I can more or less surmise the Methodology, *But what are the Targets?*



Soft and painful.


----------



## Indagator (Nov 25, 2011)

Chris Parker said:


> Soft and painful.



lol. i like the way you put that...


----------

