# 4 armed robbers Vs. 1 Jujitsu Expert



## Omar B (Jan 11, 2008)

Saw this news story last night when it just happened and the details were scetchy.  Today when more of the info came rolling in there were more detailed reports.

MTA worker heading home to the Bronx is acossed by 4 armed with knives.  Little did they know that they were attacking a 3rd degree black belt in Jujitsu and that 1 of them wound not make it out alive, the other would end up in the hospital and the last would run away in fear.

Anyways, here's the whole story.  Raise a glass for justice and our MA brother!

http://www.myfoxny.com/myfox/pages/...n=1&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=VSTY&pageId=3.2.1


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## Empty Hands (Jan 11, 2008)

I don't care how many degrees he has on that black belt, he's damn lucky to be alive.  3 guys with knives?  Good job MTA worker/MA God!


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## CoryKS (Jan 11, 2008)

I think the newscaster said it was four robbers, three of whom survived.  Glad he made it out okay, those are tough odds.  Thanks for sharing, Omar.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Jan 11, 2008)

4 robber's according to the article.  Those are bad odd's but he managed to survive.


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## Omar B (Jan 11, 2008)

It's like the wild west out there man.  This is one crazy city at times, I and my friends have all had to defend ourselves several times.  I'm glad he had the skill (and a bit of luck) to make it out alive.  Hailz to him and his Sensei.


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## TKDJUDO (Jan 11, 2008)

I disagree with the lawyer who's defending the deceased attacker; you must fight when your life is at stake, and thank God Maurice Parks made it out alive. May he have a speedy recovery!


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## arnisador (Jan 11, 2008)

Amazing. Good for him!


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## Cruentus (Jan 11, 2008)

Omar B said:


> It's like the wild west out there man.  This is one crazy city at times, I and my friends have all had to defend ourselves several times.  I'm glad he had the skill (and a bit of luck) to make it out alive.  Hailz to him and his Sensei.



That's only because you aren't allowed to carry guns. Now it's survival of whoever can kick who's ***. I am sure he feels lucky to be alive, as I have felt in similar circumstances. New York is a great city (spent a little over a month there), and the crime is a hell of a lot less there then in Detroit. But I would still feel more comfortable in Detroit while being lawfully allowed to carry a gun.

Glad that the JJ practitioner was OK...


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## thardey (Jan 11, 2008)

He fought back _after_ he was stabbed? That's a strong will to live!


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## still learning (Jan 11, 2008)

Hello, 4 against one...and he survive against the knife attacks....WOW!

Do you train for the real world?   Looks like this guy does!

Aloha,


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## KenpoTex (Jan 11, 2008)

Goes to show what a warrior mindset, some [evidently] good training, and a lot of luck will do for you.  Good for him, too bad he didn't get them all.


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## exile (Jan 11, 2008)

Yes to all of the above.

What I find completely _lunatick_ (for some reason the archaic spelling seems appropriate in this case) is the talking head saying that it was a 'crime' for this guy to have defended himself in a way that led to the death of an 'innocent' man. From the story, the knife that the transit worker used to defend himself with was the one he was stabbed with, and subsequently used only after disarming the attacker who used it against him. How the hell can anyone but a complete nutter make a case that any of the assailants was innocent, given that they used deadly force against him? 

But people shouldn't get the wrong idea about NY. As Cruentus points out, it's a lot less dangerous than a lot of other cities. Even back in the ultra-dangerous '60s, it had a lower crime rate than Chicago, Detroit, Baltimore, Philadelphia and Washington, D.C.


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## KenpoTex (Jan 12, 2008)

exile said:


> Yes to all of the above.
> 
> What I find completely _lunatick_ (for some reason the archaic spelling seems appropriate in this case) is the talking head saying that it was a 'crime' for this guy to have defended himself in a way that led to the death of an 'innocent' man. ...How the hell can anyone but a complete nutter make a case that any of the assailants was innocent, given that they used deadly force against him?


  Um...Hello! it's NY...


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## exile (Jan 12, 2008)

kenpotex said:


> Um...Hello! it's NY...



But I'm _from_ NY! And in NY, there isn't one person in a thousand who wouldn't figure that the guys who attacked this dude deserved exactly what they got. That's why I'm kind of baffled that someone there is actually trying to justify the one who was killed... I mean, the Guardian Angels _started_ in NY, and people _love_ them.


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## tellner (Jan 12, 2008)

Exile, he's the _schmukele's_ lawyer. He _*has*_ to say crap like that. It's still an impressively outrageous thing to throw out there. 

Four armed against one unarmed. One dead, one nearly dead, one on the run, one captured. That's some mighty fine fighting there. Good training done conscientiously came through. It also shows that the dynamics of the situation are very important and how they differ from a set-piece duel or most training exercises. He was in the business of staying alive. 

The bad guys were in the business of finding a victim, not someone who would liberate a weapon and start killing. His thoughts on the matter were a little different. When things started going badly they could run - leaving their dead and wounded behind. He had to stand and fight or turn and die. 

In my modest experience and extensive reliance on people who have much more it seems that the most important part of all of this the ability to flip the switch quickly and wholeheartedly. Causality is tricky, but it seems that the ones who don't fall into the third part of "Fight, Flight, Freeze" start taking the whole thing very seriously and immediately. Sometimes it takes that first wound to provide the trigger. In sexual assaults and armed robberies defenders who fought back tended to do so _after_ the most serious injury. 

It's also possible that he didn't notice that he'd been stabbed at the time. A lot of people report feeling like they'd been punched or a cold sensation. Who can say? 

It's inspiring as all hell. Thanks for posting the story, Omar.


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## exile (Jan 12, 2008)

tellner said:


> Exile, he's the _schmukele's_ lawyer. He _*has*_ to say crap like that. It's still an impressively outrageous thing to throw out there.



_Really_&#8212;I sure as hell couldn't do it! I just hope the guy who defended himself on the street isn't going to now have to defend himself in court against a civil suit brought by the dead attempted murderer's relatives&#8212;or by the survivors who were injured. In a world where you can be awarded zillions of dollars because you spilled some hot coffee on yourself, who know what will happen next?? I swear, if that happens I'll contribute to his legal fund... and so will half of NY, I'd bet. People there look at someone like him and think, that could have _me_ those four guys went after....



tellner said:


> Four armed against one unarmed. One dead, one nearly dead, one on the run, one captured. That's some mighty fine fighting there. Good training done conscientiously came through.   It also shows that the dynamics of the situation are very important and how they differ from a set-piece duel or most training exercises. He was in the business of staying alive. They were in the business of finding a victim, not someone who would liberate a weapon and start killing. His thoughts on the matter were a little different. When things started going badly they could run - leaving their dead and wounded behind. He had to stand and fight or turn and die.



Yeah, I've read a certain amount over the past few year about how the military situation these days favors the defender, when there's anything like technological parity and approximately equal firepower. But in civil violence, it's normally all in favor of the attacker, because of this crucial difference in mindsets.



tellner said:


> In my modest experience and extensive reliance on people who have much more it seems that the most important part of all of this the ability to flip the switch quickly and wholeheartedly. Causality is tricky, but it seems that the ones who don't fall into the third part of "Fight, Flight, Freeze" start taking the whole thing very seriously and immediately. Sometimes it takes that first wound to provide the trigger. In sexual assaults and armed robberies defenders who fought back tended to do so _after_ the most serious injury.   It's also possible that he didn't notice that he'd been stabbed at the time. A lot of people report feeling like they'd been punched or a cold sensation.



Interesting... as though the R-brain reactions finally kick in once the threat to survival reaches the point of an actual wound, a breach in the skin. Indo-european-group berserkers would, according to the reports of witnesses, fight ferociously till the very end of the battle in which they had been mortally wounded, and only die later on, not having noticed that they'd been gutted. Some of that was probably the result of... well, drugs, taken before the battle...but some of it was almost certainly just that strange physiological state that people go into when lethal violence engulfs them.  




tellner said:


> Who can say?   It's inspiring as all hell. Thanks for posting the story, Omar.



Inspiring is right. My thanks too!


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## thetruth (Jan 12, 2008)

It doesn't say 4 men with knives it said 4 men armed with a knife so 1 of them had a knife not all of them.  Mighty fine work though

Cheers
Sam:asian:


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## Guardian (Jan 12, 2008)

*An excellent post my friend and thanks for sharing it.  Obviously running was not a option when confronted by 4 men trying to do him harm and he did what he was trained to do and I'm sorry if one died, but when you pray on other people, you better make dang sure, you better be prepared to suffer the consequences of your actions as they did that night.*

*I also found the comments by the guy trying to defend the dead man alittle insane personally.  What a loser.*


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## KenpoTex (Jan 12, 2008)

exile said:


> But I'm _from_ NY! And in NY, *there isn't one person in a thousand who wouldn't figure that the guys who attacked this dude deserved exactly what they got.* That's why I'm kind of baffled that someone there is actually trying to justify the one who was killed... I mean, the Guardian Angels _started_ in NY, and people _love_ them.


you're talking about your average john or jane doe...the politicians and lawyers are a whole different breed.  

Just a good thing this didn't happen in the U.K. or the poor dude (the intended victim) would probably be looking at a murder charge for the dead perp. and an assault charge for each of the rest.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Jan 12, 2008)

kenpotex said:


> you're talking about your average john or jane doe...the politicians and lawyers are a whole different breed.
> 
> Just a good thing this didn't happen in the U.K. or the poor dude (the intended victim) would probably be looking at a murder charge for the dead perp. and an assault charge for each of the rest.


 
Absolutely.  In the end I have faith that the victim ie. the person who was mugged will not be charged.  As to a civil suit?  Well we all know how that will probably go.


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## Sukerkin (Jan 12, 2008)

If the victim in ths case gets anything more than a "Try and be more careful next time mate, dead muggers still generate paperwork", I would hope that there will be a public uproar about it.

After all, the only way to cut down on the number of urban 'wolves' is if the 'sheep' organise themselves and are allowed to fight back (or transform themselves into sheepdogs).

However, with the defence' lawyer attempting to paint the slain mugger as "an innocent man", I'm sure the incredulity factor will prevail.


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## Omar B (Jan 12, 2008)

As bad as it seems at least NY here is not nearly as violent as Baltimore, Detroit, Chicago.


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## tellner (Jan 12, 2008)

Hell, four against one _*unarmed *_is life threatening.


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## KenpoTex (Jan 13, 2008)

looks like there's more to the story...
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_...transit_worker_fights_back_at_4_attacker.html


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## Sukerkin (Jan 13, 2008)

That changes the complexion markedly of our feelings about the chap who died - poor fellow.  It would seem the lawyer wasn't talking such rot after all when calling him an "Innocent man".


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## KenpoTex (Jan 13, 2008)

Sukerkin said:


> That changes the complexion markedly of our feelings about the chap who died - poor fellow. It would seem the lawyer wasn't talking such rot after all when calling him an "Innocent man".


no doubt...

The moral?  charging into the middle of a 3-on-1 knife fight might be hazardous to your health.  His courage and willingness to help a stranger in distress are to be commended but sometimes discretion is the better part of valor.


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## Guardian (Jan 13, 2008)

Sukerkin said:


> That changes the complexion markedly of our feelings about the chap who died - poor fellow. It would seem the lawyer wasn't talking such rot after all when calling him an "Innocent man".


 
*I don't think personally it changes anything, the individual being attacked would have no way of knowing that the 4th individual was friend or foe, in the heat of a fight, your not taking score of who is who, your defending yourself, no time to size up the situation especially when knifes or guns ar involved.*

*I agree with Kenpotex on his comments, discretion is the better part of valor in this case.  I'm sure this guy regrets taking an innocent life, but he had no idea.*

*I don't know about your States but Texas is bringing some new laws into play that if your defending yourself and it's justified, civil lawsuits will follow criminal portion also, if innocent, you will not be allowed to be sued in civil court either.  From what I understand, 15 other states have already enacted these laws.*


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## jks9199 (Jan 13, 2008)

kenpotex said:


> no doubt...
> 
> The moral?  charging into the middle of a 3-on-1 knife fight might be hazardous to your health.  His courage and willingness to help a stranger in distress are to be commended but sometimes discretion is the better part of valor.





Guardian said:


> *I don't think personally it changes anything, the individual being attacked would have no way of knowing that the 4th individual was friend or foe, in the heat of a fight, your not taking score of who is who, your defending yourself, no time to size up the situation especially when knifes or guns ar involved.*
> 
> *I agree with Kenpotex on his comments, discretion is the better part of valor in this case.  I'm sure this guy regrets taking an innocent life, but he had no idea.*



It appears this incident is a great example of the dangers of jumping into the fray when you don't know what's going on.  It's quite possible that to a bystander coming on this fight, it would have looked like the jujitsu guy was one of the attackers!  A 911 call might have been lots more help... and safer.

In this incident, I suspect that the jujitsu fighter will probably not be charged; he was defending himself in a fight.  The original attackers remain responsible for the death of the bystander; he died as a result of their felony.


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## MA-Caver (Jan 13, 2008)

4 attackers 1 knife 1 multiple black belt... who comes out ahead? Naturally the BB. Yeah I also disagree with the attorney on the use of the word "innocent". (breathe ralph breathe). At least the police have it right that it was indeed self defense. 4 to 1 are odds are not innocent. That's pack mentality there, wild dogs, intimidation including the use of a knife, at night... animals.
Here's another video/story link... http://www.myfoxny.com/myfox/pages/...n=5&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=3.2.1 
This has a bit more info which is of interest. The 4 suspects ranged in ages from 28 (dead) to as young as 15. I found this troublesome to think about. An older guy leading a group of younger ones... what is he teaching them? How to inflict harm upon others and attacking the innocent. It's good that this (older) scumbag is out of the picture permanently so to not spread his filth among the young. Hopefully the 15 yr. old has learned a valuable lesson and it's a good lesson not the bad one of have more attackers and a gun next time. At 15 he's still young enough to make an impression and to be "scared straight".
I am finding myself hopeful that the prosecutor of the case will take in to an account that the youngest was probably coerced into joining in not knowing better. I'm not saying 15 is being naive and innocent, I've met vicious 15 year (and younger) old kids, but they're that way because they were taught to be that way by someone else... likely an older sibling or neighbor. There's a chance to head this kid off at the pass. It'd be nice if the BB who fought back decides to take the kid under his wing. 

The reporter in the second video needs to understand her terminology, calling the art used to defend "Karate", using a generic term like that isn't good. At least the other reporter got it right, and probably only because he went to the school and talked to the instructor.



kenpotex said:


> looks like there's more to the story...
> http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_...transit_worker_fights_back_at_4_attacker.html



Aww man, so the dead guy wasn't even part of the attack? My bad! That is a tragedy now that this part comes out. 


> The good Samaritan, 28-year-old Flonarza Byas, waded into the midnight free-for-all not knowing who needed help, police sources said.
> Byas was stabbed nine times and fatally wounded at W. 139th St. and St. Nicholas Ave.
> "He didn't know who was the good guy or who was the bad guys," a police source said.
> Investigators said it's possible that off-duty conductor Maurice Parks - a small but muscular martial arts expert - and the three thugs attempting to rob him all turned on Byas during the chaos because no one knew who he was.


To jump into the middle of a fight like that without knowing who's who... geez. I can understand wanting to help and am sorry the guy is dead but seems that he should've at least tried to identify himself... but in the heat of that moment who can you believe? Got three guys (now) trying to rob/hurt/kill you and this new guy shows up... is he on my side or theirs? How do you know for sure... especially right there in the middle of the fracas?


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## Sukerkin (Jan 13, 2008)

Guardian said:


> *I don't think personally it changes anything, the individual being attacked would have no way of knowing that the 4th individual was friend or foe, in the heat of a fight, your not taking score of who is who, your defending yourself, no time to size up the situation especially when knifes or guns ar involved.*


 
Aye, I agree, I didn't mean to imply that it changed the legal situation one whit.  

All I meant was that now it turns out that the chap who got killed was trying to help, our feelings can turn from those of "he got what he deserved" to those of proper human sympathy for a man slain whilst enacting a decent impulse.


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## Omar B (Jan 13, 2008)

If he was helping then it's a shame that he died, though I'm kinda leary of the whole good samartitan thing in this case.  It's a shame that a person died whatever his motivation, honorable or not.

Here's a question for ya.  Have you ever held back in a self defence situation?  I ask because once I was attacked by two (they came out with a broken wrist and broken nose) but I saw many openings in there where I could have killed rather than simply hurt.


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## MA-Caver (Jan 13, 2008)

Omar B said:


> Here's a question for ya.  Have you ever held back in a self defence situation?  I ask because once I was attacked by two (they came out with a broken wrist and broken nose) but I saw many openings in there where I could have killed rather than simply hurt.


You, in my opinion did the right thing. MA is not _just_ about self-defense it's about control of our selves with the skills learned as well. Learning when to stop is essential to any MA-ist. Knowing when enough is enough and you have incapacitated your attackers to where they cannot hurt you anymore. 
MA (any style) teaches how to prevent harm to us or to others, not to make us killers. Respectfully speaking that's the military's job. We learn techniques over time that will kill a person but it's *always, always* up to us to utilize them or not in any given situation.


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## Carol (Jan 13, 2008)

Omar B said:


> Here's a question for ya.  Have you ever held back in a self defence situation?  I ask because once I was attacked by two (they came out with a broken wrist and broken nose) but I saw many openings in there where I could have killed rather than simply hurt.



This is why learning control is important.   There are guys out and around martial arts classes that cop an attitude "what's in it for me" attitude in classes when it comes to training with a woman or a smaller teen.  What's in it for the person is, while not only helping a fellow student learn, one learns enough control so one can look for and find the opportunities to seriously harm (or worse...) another person, but not act on those opportunities unless truly necessary.


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## Omar B (Jan 13, 2008)

Truthfully, I hate hitting people.  Even in cases of self defense after the adrenalin settles I usually feel really horrible about it, even though I didnt kill the guy.


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## MA-Caver (Jan 13, 2008)

Omar B said:


> Truthfully, I hate hitting people.  Even in cases of self defense after the adrenalin settles I usually feel really horrible about it, even though I didn't kill the guy.


If you ENJOYED hitting people I'd have serious doubts about you being a decent human being. I don't think anyone decent actually enjoys inflicting pain (out of mean-ness). I don't like it but in cases of self defense it's a necessary thing. The original monks who initiated the Martial Art styles we so love today probably didn't like the idea of having to hit/hurt others... it went totally against their beliefs... but learn/create/teach their methods they did and it's helped millions in so many ways... including the intended purpose. 
I can guess the Jujitsu BB is (inwardly) regretting what he HAD to do. Especially realizing that one of them was a kid and the others were just barely adults. But what's the point of studying Martial Arts (any style) if you're going to have a pacifist view on things? 
It's nice to be assertive but sometimes you have to be aggressive or at least passive aggressive to avoid situations like what that guy got into. It could've been worse.


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## Sukerkin (Jan 13, 2008)

I quite agree that not many of us would want much to do with someone who enjoyed inflicting pain on others (and most sensei are even today quite good at winowing those people out before they learn much).

The point about adjusting your response to the threat level is a very interesting and important one in the martial arts.  It's central to conflict resolution and it's no easy thing to learn.

One 'could've been' confrontation many years ago was defused by, of all things to choose to do, my _letting_ the other chap thump me.  I judged that he wouldn't hurt me too badly with one punch and he needed to show his physical dominance to 'resolve' the situation.  He hit me, I did some version of "Ow, what's that for?", he spouted off (about me attempting to 'steal his girl') and, the important bit, walked away.

Without my years in the martial arts that may well have devolved into a nasty little fight, primarily because I was unjustly accused and that never fails to get my back up (darned inconvenient sense of justice and fair-play ).

It's one of the key factors that those who have never trained seldom grasp i.e. that training how to do something violent gives you the option *not* to do it by *choice*.


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## chinto (Jan 21, 2008)

yep he is a good man and fought well ! as to the ******* who with 3 friends attacked him.. to bad all 4 are not dead. unfortunate if it is on the east coast as it sound.. would have to be to train in Harlem he may have legal problems for hurting that poor armed attacker out to kill him.  sad but true and why I will NEVER live east of the Mississippi river!!!


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## pstarr (Jan 22, 2008)

Yes, it's a very inspiring story!  Thanks for sharing it!


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## Andy Moynihan (Jan 26, 2008)

Omar B said:


> Truthfully, I hate hitting people. Even in cases of self defense after the adrenalin settles I usually feel really horrible about it, even though I didnt kill the guy.


 

Feeling bad about doing violence upon someone is a surefire sign of sanity.

Doesn't mean it's never necessary but it's gotta be treated like work. No less. No more. This person is neither the Sole Object of my Hatred nor a Poor Misunderstood Hoodlum.  He/she is no less and no more than just another job.


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## Burnerbob (Jan 27, 2008)

I had a situation ten years ago. Was driving a Taxi part time. 15 year old decided to rob me and hit me with a baseball bat. I defended myself and broke his ribs. 
When I went to court, the judge said "Since you have Martial Arts training, I am going to charge you with excessive use of force"
Go figure that one


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## arnisador (Jan 27, 2008)

So...what happened to you?


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## Burnerbob (Jan 27, 2008)

arnisador said:


> So...what happened to you?


 Still have pains in shoulder. Take Aleve every day. Also 5 years probation


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## jks9199 (Jan 27, 2008)

Burnerbob said:


> I had a situation ten years ago. Was driving a Taxi part time. 15 year old decided to rob me and hit me with a baseball bat. I defended myself and broke his ribs.
> When I went to court, the judge said "Since you have Martial Arts training, I am going to charge you with excessive use of force"
> Go figure that one





Burnerbob said:


> Still have pains in shoulder. Take Aleve every day. Also 5 years probation



I hate to say it -- but it sounds like you should have had a better attorney.  Seems like a pretty clear case of self-defense, and a good attorney should have been able to justify lethal force in the same situation.  It shouldn't have mattered whether you were trained or not...

This is a great example of why you want a good attorney on your side in court; in fact, you want the best attorney you can get, even if it means going into debt if you're liberty is on the line!  My teacher taught me a saying: 





> By the time a fool learns the rules, the players have left the field.


 The courtroom is no place to be fumbling with the rules...


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## exile (Jan 27, 2008)

jks9199 said:


> I hate to say it -- but it sounds like you should have had a better attorney.  Seems like a pretty clear case of self-defense, and a good attorney should have been able to justify lethal force in the same situation.  It shouldn't have mattered whether you were trained or not...
> 
> This is a great example of why you want a good attorney on your side in court; in fact, you want the best attorney you can get, even if it means going into debt if you're liberty is on the line!  My teacher taught me a saying:  The courtroom is no place to be fumbling with the rules...



Absolutely, 100% right, jks. How anyone with a reasonable law degree couldn't establish that a baseball bat constitutes deadly force... I'm still looking for my jaw on the floor, after reading this.


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## Empty Hands (Jan 27, 2008)

exile said:


> How anyone with a reasonable law degree couldn't establish that a baseball bat constitutes deadly force... I'm still looking for my jaw on the floor, after reading this.



Well, the judges are not automata, slaves to whatever inputs the lawyer puts in.  Given the info present in the post, it looks like the poster had a biased judge to whom a good or even great lawyer might not have made much of a difference.


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## Burnerbob (Jan 28, 2008)

The problem was the attacker was only 15 years old. And that is considered "attack on a "*minor*"


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## jks9199 (Jan 28, 2008)

Burnerbob said:


> The problem was the attacker was only 15 years old. And that is considered "attack on a "*minor*"


Again -- I have to question how competent your attorney was, based on the scant details you've given.  The baseball bat doesn't care how old the person swinging it is -- or how old the target is.  

That said -- I can also think of several reasons why you could have been in the wrong.  For example, if the attacker was retreating, and you chased him.  Or if you kicked him significantly after he'd dropped the bat and no longer present such an imminent threat of serious bodily harm.  In other words -- I'm not immediately damning your lawyer; the devil is all too often in the details of a self-defense claim.


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## Burnerbob (Jan 28, 2008)

jks9199 said:


> Again -- I have to question how competent your attorney was, based on the scant details you've given. The baseball bat doesn't care how old the person swinging it is -- or how old the target is.
> 
> That said -- I can also think of several reasons why you could have been in the wrong. For example, if the attacker was retreating, and you chased him. Or if you kicked him significantly after he'd dropped the bat and no longer present such an imminent threat of serious bodily harm. In other words -- I'm not immediately damning your lawyer; the devil is all too often in the details of a self-defense claim.


 Perpetrator sung the bat and hit my shoulder, I let out with a side kick to the ribs. I was still wearing steel toe boots from my day job and according to his attorney this is what caused his ribs to break.


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## Sanchin-J (Jan 31, 2008)

As much as I hate to seem barbaric, I won't deny that my soldier's instincts kicked in when I got done reading and watching the story posted. I'm proud of that man for standing up and defending himself and I applaud him. Not only has he sent a message to would be criminals out there, but he has given his community an eye opening opportunity to come together.

When I think about the loss of life I can't help but feel pity for the family of the attacker who died, losing a loved one is never easy no matter how rotten they may be as a person. However, when it comes down to 4 armed attackers and a life or death situation, I would not hesitate to use techniques that could kill someone to save my own life, granted I wouldn't want to kill anyone, but given my options in that situation, if someone dies so be it, as long as it isn't me. 

I myself have taken lives while in service to my country, I don't talk about it, nor do I tolerate questions about it from relatives or close friends. They know me and they know that I value all life no matter how big or small, and that I'm a peaceful person. The only thing I think I've ever said about it when asked was to explain it situationally. When faced with the choice of kill or be killed, human instinct takes over, you do what you must and try not to dwell on it afterwards.

I'm saddened to see a life extinguished no matter who's life it may be, however given the overwhelming odds the victim was facing and the fact that it was a matter of life and death, I am proud and grateful that he's with us today to share his experiences with the youth of tomorrow.


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## arnisador (Feb 23, 2008)

There's more to the story (I posted some links here on FMAT) but so far no news on what's happening legally. They talk about his VSK jujutsu martial arts background and his previous self-defense experience against a gun-wielding mugger who nearly died in the encounter.

This essay inspired by the incident, about New Yorkers and self-defense, is especially interesting (registration may be required):
When Crime Was Always on Our Minds


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