# Hapkido As An Olympic Sport



## Black Belt FC (May 22, 2005)

Lets face it gentleman the best way to attract a large audience to Hapkido is by tapping unto the sport side of the art. Hapkido has the kicks of Taekwondo, hand techniques of Karate, throws and floor techniques of Judo; it will make a major impact.





Focusing on trying to make it an Olympic sport will help united the associations or kwans under one umbrella like the Kukkiwon, to create one governing body for standards and certification. Creating a governing body will help weep out the trouble makers.


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## Paul B (May 22, 2005)

Interesting idea, Felix.

I'm sure you have seen the rules for Hanminjok sparring. Is this the type of rules you would like to see in the Olympics?


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## zac_duncan (May 24, 2005)

Agreed, that's the best way to attract a large audience. 

Now, why do we want a large audience?


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## arnisador (May 24, 2005)

Where can I find the rules for Hanminjok sparring?


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## Paul B (May 24, 2005)

You might try www.kidohae.com


You'll probably have to shoot them a email. There is a short overview of "types" of sparring on the site.


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## Martial Tucker (Jun 23, 2005)

zac_duncan said:
			
		

> Agreed, that's the best way to attract a large audience.
> 
> Now, why do we want a large audience?


  I agree with this sentiment, and would add the old adage: "be careful what you wish for..."

 I'm not usually the "alarmist" type, and I am perhaps speaking just a bit out of turn here, as my primary art has been a very traditional TKD curriculum
 for about 8 years. But, our TKD curriculum includes a very healthy dose of Hapkido taught by a 6th dan, and the techniques and philosophy that I have
 learned are quite brutal and designed to disable and/or maim, if done properly and with "attitude". Having said that, I am far from being an expert in HKD by any stretch, but it really escapes me as to how this brutal, self-defense art can be adapted to Olympic-level competition without watering down the material, and applying such a multitude of safety rules for the competition that the resulting "sport" bears little resemblance to the
 "mother art". Does this sound familiar or "ring any bells" with all of the people who have opinions on the validity of "sport" TKD as an art?

 If you do adapt the style such that a safe competition "branch" would get greater exposure and reach a broader audience, and become popular, are you possibly stepping onto the "slippery slope" that ends with Hapkido "mcdojangs" and 12 year old 3rd dans and endless debates about the merits of sport vs. traditional HKD, as has unfortunately brought such unwanted negative attention to TKD? Again, I hate to be alarmist, but where does it stop? I am not a hapkidoin, but from what I have seen happen in TKD, my feeling is: leave HKD as it is....a brutal, but beautiful art steeped in tradition and sound principles.


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## Paul B (Jun 23, 2005)

Give the man a cigar! (I like your band,BTW)

*My* take on it is pretty much the same. Even when reading through the sparring "rules"...it struck me as watered down and basically no fun. 

The whole thing seems to be asking for someone to...break something+hospital+lawyer= lawsuit.

There was a specific passage in the Hanminjok rules that said "appropriate use of yu-sool techniques"......? To me,that says that somethings "gettin busted". How else would one "appropriately use" a yu sool technique,eh? Got me.

Speaking for myself...I would find it very hard to *not* go a little hard and fast when applying yu sool at speed..how about you?


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## zac_duncan (Jun 27, 2005)

Martial Tucker said:
			
		

> leave HKD as it is....a brutal, but beautiful art steeped in tradition and sound principles.


Can I get an Amen?

Well said. Keep the sports away from my HKD.


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## jujutsu_indonesia (Aug 5, 2005)

Black Belt FC said:
			
		

> Lets face it gentleman the best way to attract a large audience to Hapkido is by tapping unto the sport side of the art. Hapkido has the kicks of Taekwondo, hand techniques of Karate, throws and floor techniques of Judo; it will make a major impact.
> 
> 
> Focusing on trying to make it an Olympic sport will help united the associations or kwans under one umbrella like the Kukkiwon, to create one governing body for standards and certification. Creating a governing body will help weep out the trouble makers.


Uh oh... I think a group called JJIF (Ju-Jitsu International Federation  http://www.jjifweb.com/) is already in the World Games... and of all Jujutsu groups in the world, they have the best chances to introduce Jujutsu in the Olympics. Since Hapkido and Jujutsu pretty much looks the same (from a layman's point of view), perhaps Hapkido people can compete in Jujutsu competitions and won medals for their countries. Ain't it great?


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## jujutsu_indonesia (Aug 5, 2005)

Here are a brief look at their rules



> Ju-Jitsu Competitions
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I am sure Hapkido people will adapt very quickly to these rules!


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## howard (Aug 6, 2005)

True Hapkido is not a sport at all.  It is a martial art of self defense, the techniques of which are intended to do damage to an attacker.  Original Hapkido and sport are mutually exclusive concepts.  There are simply no two ways about this.

 If you're doing something that involves rules-based competition, it is not traditional Hapkido - full stop.


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## Paul B (Aug 7, 2005)

Well said,Howard.

I have been giving this some heavy thought recently because of the "sparring rules" in our Hapkido Org. 

I must admit that the resulting mix of acceptable and "legal" techniques makes for a potentially watered down training focus,furthermore... *I* think it would be all to easy for Hapkidoin who are interested in competition to ignore the painfully effective and admittedly brutal self defense aspects that make Hapkido what it is,opting instead to score the quick and easy point for the win.

I would have a difficult time trying to justify cherry-picking techniques to teach to students who are interested in competition and trying to teach the Art as I have leaned it thus far to students who choose to focus on plain ol' Hapkido.

I say with emphasis...."What's the point?"

Hapkido,to me, is nothing that I would ever want to see people trying to do to each other in competition or elsewhere.


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## Brad Dunne (Aug 7, 2005)

To quote Yogi Berra, "Hey! it's deja vu all over again"..............:shrug: 

Want to see what will happen to "Sport Hapkido"? Just take a look at TKD


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## searcher (Aug 7, 2005)

Hey, if they can have Curling in the Winter Olympics then surely Hapkido can be a summer sport.   It never hurts to try.   It may ahve an impact on other styles as well.   I am for anything that gets students in the door, within reason.


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## jujutsu_indonesia (Aug 8, 2005)

searcher said:
			
		

> Hey, if they can have Curling in the Winter Olympics then surely Hapkido can be a summer sport. It never hurts to try. It may ahve an impact on other styles as well. I am for anything that gets students in the door, within reason.


Hehehe.... imagine this: finally Sport Jujutsu became an Olympic Sport, then at the first Olympic tournament, the Japanese were soundly defeated by the Korean Team which uses Hapkido... that would be the ultimate revenge!!  (joking mode on.. don't kick me   )


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## howard (Aug 8, 2005)

Hi Paul, imo you've made some good points.

 I got flamed earlier today on another board for posting almost the same thing that you replied to... was basically accused of being one of those dudes who says "Hapkido can't be used in competition because its techniques are too deadly."  Now, I never said anything of the sort... all I said was that there was NO competitive component in Choi Young Sool's art.  Therefore, if you practice a form of Hapkido that has competition, it is not Choi's original art. And those are simple, indisuptable facts.  I'm not making any judgments about folks who decide to adapt their Hapkido to competition, although it's not for me.

 I agree that the training mindset for competition is different from that of self-defense... and, having studied the old stuff for so many years, would probably have great difficulty adapting the Hapkido I know to competition.  But, if people want to adapt the techiques by making them safe for competition, I don't have a problem with that.  However, I think they should realize that what they're doing is something very different from the original art.  That's really all I'm trying to say.

 Take care...



			
				Paul B said:
			
		

> Well said,Howard.
> 
> I have been giving this some heavy thought recently because of the "sparring rules" in our Hapkido Org.
> 
> ...


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## searcher (Aug 8, 2005)

Maybe then we should all try to get a NHB type competition for the Olympics.   This would allow for HKD to compete wihtout the limitations of rules.


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## mantis (Oct 4, 2005)

Black Belt FC said:
			
		

> Lets face it gentleman the best way to attract a large audience to Hapkido is by tapping unto the sport side of the art. Hapkido has the kicks of Taekwondo, hand techniques of Karate, throws and floor techniques of Judo; it will make a major impact.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 why would you want to attract people to your martial art?
 i'd rather have an art that no one knows!
 also, by making it a sport you will lose what hapkido has now!
 away from that, u seem to be a good marketing person, send me ur resume


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## spud (Dec 18, 2005)

One of the main reasons I left TKD is the way it changed in the general mainstream to cater for the Olympics, now this only may opinion but I felt it took a great art & changed it into something I wasnt interested in, had nothing to do with why I started training in or strengthened the core practices of.

   Those who wanted to teach the more traditional ways were basically shunned & viewed as of no use to the new generation of students attracted by the lure of being an Olympic hero not a martial artist.

   It brought in the masses of westerners & regrettably opened the flood gates for those frauds to pop up on every corner so in the end I was personally embarrassed to by know to do TKD.  Not because of TKD but how people then perceived what it was.

   I feel if this was attempted with HKD it would have a definite negative effect on the ART.  Now we all know how much of the art would have to be omitted or so dramatically changed as to make it acceptable as an Olympic SPORT that what would be seen an perceived to be HKD by the world would in truth have very little resemblance to what HKD really is.

   Do we want to attract the masses only to have to re-educate them as to what HKD actually is.

   Personally Id prefer to try to promote HKD in an honest & open manner showing the many benefits & core values of a wonderful art & only attract those people who feel these values & benefits to be truly worth pursuing.  Building a solid foundation of people who will ensure the art continues into the future retaining its true beauty & values.

   This is only my opinion but it is my hope for the future, stop infighting & focus on improving, promoting & teaching the art not the personalities who feel they are more than the art itself.


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## SAVAGE (Jan 15, 2006)

Black Belt FC said:
			
		

> Lets face it gentleman the best way to attract a large audience to Hapkido is by tapping unto the sport side of the art. Hapkido has the kicks of Taekwondo, hand techniques of Karate, throws and floor techniques of Judo; it will make a major impact.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
I pray this never happens...so few arts are traditional anymore, HKD in my humble opinion is one...to include sports to it...hell why not put a XMA form in it add al  kinds of backflips and lets entertain people!


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## DuneViking (Jan 22, 2006)

Why not have Martial Arts as an Oly Sport, Forms, Full Contact Striking and Full Contact Submission divisions, and let everybody play as full strength as possible?

Also, I must agree- be careful what you wish for. Yes, you can popularize your art, and yes, that popularization can corrupt it. I had not seen Oly TKD until the last Olys when I got the competition on a DVD. Wow, was I dissapointed. I would hate to see that happen to anyone's art.


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## Paul B (Jan 22, 2006)

I have to say I'm kinda curious as to how other Hapkidoin that advocate for Olympic style sparring practice their technique in the Dojang.

As far as our Hapkido..there is more of an emphasis on knee,elbow,and hand strikes to "off-limit" areas that lead into our desired "finish"..and I find nothing in Hanminjok rules that plays to those strengths (as it should) leaving us little to work with. 

I still say the Hapkido works best when attacked and may not be the most offensive of arts out there suitable for a competition style setting. Furthermore...I would have a particularly hard time trying to justify the removal of of those very same techniques that are in our Kebonsu which are taught from day one. No thanks and have fun with all that.

That being said..I don't see why we should compete in ..say..Sansoo or San Da and call it Hapkido..just because we can kick/punch and use some throws..to me it's taking out the technical "flavor" that makes Hapkido what it is. My 2 c's.


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## bluemtn (Feb 6, 2006)

I don't know-  I just don't like the idea of making HKD an olympic sport, and just using the various strikes that's in the art.  In the same breath, is there a good chance if you keep the joint locks in there, no one will get hurt (scaring future practitioners away)?  It's fine to want to lure practitioners in, but I wouldn't want someone just expecting "another sport."  Don't get me wrong- if you like the sporting aspect, knock yourself out.  Olympic style TKD seems to be a dime-a-dozen today, and has had no real positive influences on the general public.  This is coming from someone practicing "traditional" (not sporting) TKD.


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## Mr.Rooster (Mar 5, 2006)

Bad idea to get Hapkido labeled an Olympic sport.
The Olympics would make Hapkido a watered down version of what it was originally intended to be.   
There are parts of Hapkido that can be utilized in sport activities.  It's like having a vehicle that can go up to about 120 mph, but normally we only get to a max of 55-70 mph for safety purposes.


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## matt.m (May 23, 2006)

I do not have my dan in Hapkido, however my father is a 5th dan master.  He learned from Great Grandmaster, 9th dan Lee H. Park, Lee studied under Won-kwang Wha, Won-Kwang Wha and Ji Han Jae were classmates of Choi himself.  I do hold a brown in Judo.  I study Tae kwon Do as well.  The thing is this, Hapkido is not a sport.  It was never intended to be.  Hapkido is a graceful art that will indeed cripple someone.  

If you put rules to hapkido, then it is not hapkido. Its ciriculum is not structured in a manner such as this.  In Judo and Tae Kwon Do you have two distinct types of each.  The martial art for defense and the sport aspects of each to gain points in two minutes or ippon.

Not only that, but there is no set ciriculum for hapkido either.  Major similarities towards lets say kuk Sool hapkidoand Moo Sul Kwan hapkido but they are different.

in Tae kwon Do the forms are the same, it is up to the school you are learning from whether you have to know the WTF or ITF forms, my school requires both.  The one step sparring is the same, the kicking ciriculum is the same.  Hapkido is not designed in a neat package such as this.

Choi really didn't want it that way entirely either.  From my understanding from my dad it seems that when the 11 students learned from Choi they were told to take his teachings and make it their own so it would all be similiar to each other but they had to be a little different.  That is why the style names are different as well.  Kuk Sool and Moo Sool Kwan (Won-Kwang Wha) then Moo Sul Kwan (Lee H. Park).

The last paragraph was explained to dad by Great Grandmaster Park in this manner.  

Hoshin

Matt


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## Davejlaw (May 23, 2006)

Agreed. While it's fun to fantasize about seeing full throttle joint locks in competition, Hapkido is not set up to be an Olympic sport. Now I have seen these videos available online of the Jin Jung Kwan Hapkido Tournaments but I've watched a few minutes of these and thought it looked like TKD tourneys. It's not that I would mind Hapkido becoming more popular but it should become more popular for what it is and is supposed to be. Also, many of you keep stressing how brutal it is. All martial arts are brutal. A Wing-chun throat strike is brutal, a aikido throw when it dislocates a shoulder is brutal, etc.


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## Paul B (May 23, 2006)

Davejlaw said:
			
		

> ..snip...Also, many of you keep stressing how brutal it is. All martial arts are brutal. A Wing-chun throat strike is brutal, a aikido throw when it dislocates a shoulder is brutal, etc.


 
I would venture that all martial arts _can be_ brutal..but Hapkido is in itself from day one. An Aikidoka does not train specifically for a shoulder dislocation,but a Hapkidoin does. The philosophies are inherently different.I know what you meant though..you say tomato,I say potato.


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## Davejlaw (May 24, 2006)

Exactly. I should have said CAN be or HAS THE POTENTIAL to be. Our Hapkido is taught to us as an art that has varying degrees of destructiveness. You can lock the shoulder and wrist to discourage your friend from continuing to fight when he's drunk for example, or the same lock can be utilized against a mugger with much more force causing a spiral fracture ending the fight. Almost all the Chokub San Mak Sool techniques we learn can be applied gently or forcefully but remain effective in either case.


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## crushing (May 24, 2006)

Brad Dunne said:
			
		

> To quote Yogi Berra, "Hey! it's deja vu all over again"..............:shrug:
> 
> Want to see what will happen to "Sport Hapkido"? Just take a look at TKD


 

Do you mean "Just take a look at 'Sport TKD'".  I think many in TKD differentiate between the sport and the martial art.


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## matt.m (May 24, 2006)

Dave and Crushing,

I couldn't agree with you more.  Each statement is brought with merit.  Now, to coincide with dave: In Moo Sul Kwan Hapkido we learn the 25 son mok soo and 25 eui bok soo, (Wrist and clothes) techniques for green belt. (White, Yellow, Orange, Green, Blue, Purple, Brown, Red, then dan rankings).  Yes Hapkido is designed to be a quick fight ender.  Period end of story. 

Anyhow, each of the 25 can be done soft or hard.  It depends on what needs to be done at the time that is presented.  However it needs to be said that proper technique has to be done at all time.

Now with Crushing's statement, it is true in the aspect of Tae Kwon Do.  You have the art of Tae Kwon Do and Tae Kwon Do as a sport.  The sport Tae Kwon Do practitioners would get destroyed on the street in approximately immediately.  For example, if a person throws a sloppy side kick in a fight then they will hurt themselves more than likely.  Reason for this is there is no real chamber and rechamber and if you kick like that against something hard you just tore ligaments or broke your leg.


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