# Hapkido History



## Master Todd Miller (Aug 26, 2004)

What do you teach to your students as to the history of your art?  There is no wrong answer, I am interested to see how different groups relay the history of Hapkido.  

I think it is important for everyone to be patient with replies as there are many different styles of Hapkido.

 :CTF:


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## American HKD (Aug 26, 2004)

Greetings,

That's a good question because everyone has thier take.

We teach that Choi learned from Takada in Japan, Ji Han Jae learned from Choi and added the majority of the kicks, weapons material, and some more spiritual teaching after 1980 when Ji started to teach Sin Moo Hapkido.

Pretty straight foward without all the romanticism.


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## Master Todd Miller (Aug 26, 2004)

We teach that Choi learned from Takada in Japan, Ji Han Jae learned from Choi and added the majority of the kicks, weapons material, and some more spiritual teaching after 1980 when Ji started to teach Sin Moo Hapkido.

Our history is very similar to yours Stuart,  We teach that DJN Choi learned from Takeda or another very highly skilled AKJJ practitioner in Japan for 30 years then came back to Korea and taught what he had learned AND DEVELOPED.  The major differances are that we teach the 10 basic kicks that DJN Choi taught.  The weapons that DJN Choi taught were the short stick, Cane, Long pole, Rope and Sword and the philosophy of classical Mudo.

It is interesting that our root is the same even though what we may practice is a little different.

 :uhyeah:


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## Master Todd Miller (Aug 26, 2004)

The other weapon DJN Choi taught was the Knife or Kal/Tanto Sool.


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## American HKD (Aug 26, 2004)

Dear Todd,

I believe we basically teach and practice the same Art kicks aside for now! 

I think we'll differ in the following areas & traditions.

Ji Han Jae was a major influence in the Hapkido World his traditon is very strong. He was a main figure who spead Hapkido through out Korea and became a powerful person in the government etc. The majority of HKD Masters in the world came through his line not Choi's.

As far as weapons go we teach the same ones as you, but Ji claims to have learned the long pole from some one other than Choi and he also claims he invented the curved cane techniques and the spining heel kick.

Ji being one of Choi first students may have shared many techniques with Choi, Ji also claims to have coined the name Hapkido and gave it to Choi to use out of respect. 

The oldest MA Association were started by Ji and Choi such as KIDO and the Korea Hapkido Assoc. etc.

So from Choi's students foward Hapki Yu Sool A.K.A. the other style of Hapkido remained without any modifications from AKJJ it seems.

Again this is how we explain our history in detail for the most part.


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## Master Todd Miller (Aug 27, 2004)

Ji Han Jae was a major influence in the Hapkido World his traditon is very strong. He was a main figure who spead Hapkido through out Korea and became a powerful person in the government etc. The majority of HKD Masters in the world came through his line not Choi's.

Very true GM Ji was a big influence on Hapkido and most high ranking Hapkidoin come from Ji's teaching.

From what I have seen there are differances in how Ji's students execute techniques from Choi's original style but the root will always be DJN Choi.

Take care


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## American HKD (Aug 27, 2004)

Greetings,

I've seen differances in executuion from school to school & Master to Master so that will always be that way I think, everyones body moves a little differantly. 

The issue is do they know the technique and principles correctly! 

For me personally Hapkido is from my teachers, I indentify with my them more than a person of the past having the personal contact and expirience.

I wish people who knew Choi well would write more about him and what he was like, how he conducted classes and himself etc.


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## howard (Aug 27, 2004)

guys, nice discussion.  i'd say i agree with both of you. and it's nice to see you acknowledging that choi young sool probably (not definitely) studied under takeda, because as we all know, that is one debate that will probably never be resolved.  and on most boards, can only lead to flame wars.

my humble opinion is this:  at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter who taught choi young sool.  what cannot be disputed is that he was one very formidable martial artist when he returned to korea from japan ca. 1945.



			
				American HKD said:
			
		

> I wish people who knew Choi well would write more about him and what he was like, how he conducted classes and himself etc.


great point.  unfortunately, those people are probably all korean, and the few that i know anything about (for example, master im, master chang chin il, master rim jong bae) aren't the types who would come out and write a book or anything like that.  it's too bad, really - if you're not lucky enough to have come across a man like im hyun soo, as todd and i have, you may never know what it was like to train under the founder.  master im has many stories about training under the founder.


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## glad2bhere (Aug 27, 2004)

As far as the lineage goes, we teach from GM Myung back to GM Ji back to GM Choi, but thats just the most modern take on things. Koreans did not need the Japanese to teach them how to fight with their hands or fight with weapons and there are ample examples of such traditions going back quite a ways. As the name of the kwan suggests ("yon mu") martial striving is a bit different from just martial practice. The goal is to delve deeply and repeatedly into the Mu-Do to change it by making it richer, not by adding or subtracting things. In this way the history of what is popularly called "hapkido" today remains alive regardless of what people will call it tomorrow.  FWIW. 

Best Wishes, 

Bruce


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## American HKD (Aug 27, 2004)

Dear Howard,

I really don't know who taught Choi, Ji Han Jae told me Choi called his Art Yawara and he could'nt prove the Daito Ryu connection. It's is true though that Choi learned in Japan. 

Actually I don't really care but it's easier to say Daito Ryu and not argue about it. 

Some of my resent research into HKD and the root of its techniques seems to reveal "Yawara" is a Joint Locking type Art with little to no throwing techniques. However one would fall, but only because of a joint twist, lock, or manipulation has apposed to actually being lifted off your feet as in a throw or Nage technique.

It does also seems that the HKD throws are based off only a few techs. hip, shoulder, firemans throw combined with joint techniques etc. compared to Kodokan Judo that claims 65 or so throws.

For clarity I'm not including here any sweeps, reaps, or takedowns etc.

Any ideas or comment out there about Yawara?


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## Master Todd Miller (Aug 27, 2004)

Some of my resent research seems to reveal "Yawara" is a Joint Locking type Art with little to no throwing techniques. One however would fall, but only because of a joint twist, lock, or manipulation has apposed to actually being lifted off your feet as in a throw or Nage technique.


In Jungki Hapkido we practice & teach throwing techniques, They are performed differently than Yudo though.

The term Yawara is the same as Hapki Yu Sool, Hapki YuKwon Sool and in my opinion they are all different terms for Hapkido.

Take care


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## American HKD (Aug 28, 2004)

Dear Todd,

From my understanding in Japanese Yawara is a specific type of technique mainly joint types. Nage means throwing, Shime means restriction type tech. such as chokes or squeezes.

When Yawara came to Korea I think it may have become a "generic term" for Yu Sool  Japanese equivelant to Jujutsu, but that's not really accurate. 

In HKD we call throws Dunji gi and joint techs Go gi, strikes Chi Gi right! 

Aiki Jutsu also doesn't really describe the different catagories of techniques included in the systems, the name only says Coordinated Ki Soft Style. 

I think these generic terms are mis-used alot.

So my original point was Yawara is mainly a Joint manipulation type Art more than a throwing Art that's what I was trying to explore in detail. I also noticed HKD lacks many chokes compared to many other Jujutsu styles that maybe a because of the Aiki sytle?


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## Kumbajah (Aug 29, 2004)

American HKD said:
			
		

> When Yawara came to Korea I think it may have become a "generic term" for Yu Sool  Japanese equivelant to Jujutsu, but that's not really accurate.



Can you explain this more thoroughly I was allways under the impression that the 3 terms were synonamous more or less. There are "sub-terms" ie atemi-waza (Striking Techniques) in jujutsu and aikido, so break down of technique by name doesn't really explain the difference. Thanks for your help. Most of my info these days comes from on line so sometimes its hard to get "scholarly" info.

Brian


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## American HKD (Aug 29, 2004)

Greetings,

Yawara is one of the oldest forms of a catagory of techniques known as soft, gentle, yeilding etc. so is the term Ju-jutsu which came later. 

The word Yawara has its origins in ideographs that mean to not confront. To go around conflict like water would around an object. This implies that we also like water must learn to go around confrontation. I believe this is where the water principle of HKD comes from. Non-conflict etc.

This still does'nt explain what techniques are used to accomplish the goal. From my own personal reseach the Techniques of Yawara are just about the same as HKD. Yawara being "escapes from grabs and holds, and joint mapliulations" very little throws. So HKD can be just from Yawara with-out a Diato Ryu connection in my belief. 

The Throwing Arts if you will are called Nage or Nage-Te. Te is hand like in Kara-te. It was taught as another catagory of techniques. The Japanese studies from various sources to put together a system. 

Judo is a great example for Kano put together Kodakan throwing techniques from Nage-Te of many from differant Jujutsu styles. I consider Judo a throwing art they call it gentle art as well borrowing that concept from Yawara.

This is a complicated subject to write about here. I hope you have some ideas to reseach yourself.


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