# Check your carry guns....



## dearnis.com (Jun 2, 2005)

Pretty disturbing week and a half.   During spring quals last week my pocket gun up and died on me.  Trigger kaput; non-recoverable.  OK; I can live with that.  It's a KelTec P32 with a couple thousand rounds through it.  Yes, I said a couple thousand.  Yes, I know you arent supposed to shoot  them that much.  And I had a clue when I cracked the slide 2 years ago. (They kindly sent me a new one).  So that gun is down, out, and off to the factor.
Same day I noticed I wasn't shoot my duty gun as well as I normally do. Not bad, just not what I normally shoot. Wrote that off to fatigue until I got home and cleaned it; found that the small leaf spring in the trigger assembly had broken off (feature is hopefully unique to Smith autos).  Again, not a big deal, the gun will fire with it missing, just not as well (mystery solved?)  So.... Off to see the armorer.  7 or so internal pieces out and into the trash....and hopefully all is well with the world.  So yestereday evening back on the firing line...trigger felt better, groups seemed smaller.  Second box of ammo....bang, bang, bang, click, nothing.
Peter Capstick once wrote that the most horrifying sound in the world is a click when one expects a bang.  Even under controlled circumstances I must agree.  And no, this was not a simple misfire; this was a complete failure (type undertermined).
So...back to the armorer we go.  Final diagnosis; sear spring  was also bad, and the frame had cracked (internally).  
Solution- I have a brand new duty gun to break in tomorrow.
Object lesson #1: lots of rounds of hot ammo will eventually crack an alloy frame.
Object lesson #2: If you are not able (due to ability or regulation) to conduct a full inspection on your carry gun(s) periodically have it done.  Had the second failure happened in a real situation I would have been out of the fight.  Period.

For those who count such things the pistol in question had been with me for 7 years, had upwards of 10,000 rounds through it (at least 4K of that +p+ loads), and I was not the first to have the gun issued to me.


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## Cruentus (Jun 3, 2005)

Some good advice there....always make sure your equiptment works!

Paul


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## KenpoTex (Jun 4, 2005)

glad you caught it when you did...


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## Gray Phoenix (Jun 4, 2005)

I have seen some horrible failures. Having been a rnage master for 8 years, its kinda scary. I've seen guns blow from an over charge of powder. I saw some peal their thumb back by bracing it against the bakc of a Glocks slide. I've seen a cop from LAPD come in a fire, or try to fire his duty weapon. Smith 4506, having just had a "trigger job" done at the Academy armorer, or so he said. In uniform in front of a number of people at the range, first shot: click. Second shot click. Having now learned of situation that required a change of underwear, He had me take a look at it. Having seen this way too many times, I figured somebody cut the mainspring to far. Popped the grip, and yup, it was too short. Pulled the slide, and popped of the hammer, no sign of polishing on anything. This wasnt a trigger job just a lighter trigger. 

A few notes:
I have never seen a Keltec that didnt fail often. 
Same with Berretta 92FS. Although the Brigadier solved the slide cracking, it still has a weak block on the barrel.
30,000 rounds is when you should see effective wear on a gun. Glocks go into the hundreds. we had one rental gun go over 250,000 rounds before needing major work.

Geez.. I've got some stories.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. ranges are neat places. Too bad I gave it up to be stock broker.


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## Andrew Green (Jun 4, 2005)

I hear ya, I had a super soaker that had a leaky tank...  I thought I was armed and dangerous, but had no pressure.  I ended up getting very wet due to faulty equipment.


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## Gray Phoenix (Jun 5, 2005)

LOL!!!:rofl: I hate when that happens.. Of course I was doing the Rambo thing shooting from the hip. Looked like I got scared and had an accident!!


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## Rich Parsons (Jun 6, 2005)

dearnis.com said:
			
		

> Solution- I have a brand new duty gun to break in tomorrow.



Same weapon? Or something New?



			
				dearnis.com said:
			
		

> Object lesson #1: lots of rounds of hot ammo will eventually crack an alloy frame.



Loaded Question: Could you have two guns of the same make a model, the one you carry, and the other you abuse. Of course you would shoot some rounds through the carry weapon. Yet, since they are the "Same" gun, from the same manufacturer, would they not operate within a close enough fashion for the practice and the job security?



			
				dearnis.com said:
			
		

> Object lesson #2: If you are not able (due to ability or regulation) to conduct a full inspection on your carry gun(s) periodically have it done.  Had the second failure happened in a real situation I would have been out of the fight.  Period.



I am confused. What regulation would prohibit your from checking your weapon? Are their Departments that prohibit the individual form working on their own weapon, and the require that an approved Armourer works on the weapon?



			
				dearnis.com said:
			
		

> For those who count such things the pistol in question had been with me for 7 years, had upwards of 10,000 rounds through it (at least 4K of that +p+ loads), and I was not the first to have the gun issued to me.



If I read this correctly, you had 10K rounds yourself with 4K (* 40% *) being 'Heavy' and the weapon had seen action before you. So this is the minimum. Correct?


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## dearnis.com (Jun 6, 2005)

Rich- In order...
Brand new version of same make/model.

Short version...yes....but the "practice" gun would have to be bought by me (that whole serial number thing...).  For the cost involved, it isn't  worth it to me to pay out of my own pocket.  Better to keep breaking the boss' guns.

Most departments prohibit individual officers from detail stripping their weapons; yes, there are explicit regs about this.  (same in the military; you may field strip your weapon, but not "detail" strip.)  

Right, minimum of 10K  just from me.  Sounds like a lot, but this is not much for frame failure.  A rifle barrel might be shot out at this kind of round count, but that is expected.  As noted above, 30K is reasonable for major wear/need of overhaul.  This is more akin to cracking an engine block at 60-80K miles.  It happens, and usually only with a hard 60-80K, but it shouldnt.


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## Grenadier (Jun 9, 2005)

Gray Phoenix said:
			
		

> Glocks go into the hundreds. we had one rental gun go over 250,000 rounds before needing major work.


Exceeded Chuck Taylor's famous Glock?


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