# Questions Regarding General Self Defense Class



## Makalakumu (Sep 9, 2004)

In my Dojang, I teach my primary art, Tangsoodo.  I have some people coming in who are not interested in learning a MA.  They want to learn basic self defense.  The following is a rough idea for curriculum that may or may not become a class.  Any comments would be appreciated.

upnorthkyosa

*General Self Defense Class*

*A.  Striking Principles*

1.	The Golden Targets  Eyes, Throat, and Groin.
2.	The Three Deprivations  Sight, Breath, and Sense.
3.	Yin and Yang in Striking  hard target soft striker, soft target hard striker.

*Striking Techniques*

1.	Closed hand  jab, cross, hook, uppercut
2.	Open hand  palm strike, palm rake, knife hand, eye gouge
3.	Elbows  up, down, cross
4.	Kicking  front, side, round, knee


*B. Grappling Principals*

1.	Taking and Giving Force  pull a push and push a pull.
2.	Superior Position Vs. Inferior Position.
3.	Use of Entire Body  Combining body muscles, use of weight, use of hips

*Techniques*

1.	Falling  forward roll, side slap, back fall, front fall.
2.	Throwing  foot sweep, outside leg sweep, hip throw.
3.	Escapes  hand grip fighting, escapes from mounts, escapes from holds.
4.	Ground Positioning  mounts, hold downs, position flow.
5.	Locks  arm locks, leg locks, chokes.


*C.  Weapons Principles (basic stick and knife)*

1.	Length of Reach  a weapons effect on distance and timing
2.	Cutting Vs Blunt  the difference between the two and their effects
3.	Equalization  the power of a weapon Vs. empty hand.

*Techniques*

1.	Striking with knives  holding the knife, five terrors, defang the snake
2.	Striking with sticks  holding the stick, strikes 1-12, _punyo _ strike
3.	Block/Check/Strike, Meet and Pass, Free Flow
4.	Disengagement  how to run, disabling motion, protecting vitals.
5.	Empty hand Vs Weapon  Isolating the weapon, disarms, _kuntao_.


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## Flatlander (Sep 9, 2004)

Upnorth, I must preface by offering that I know zero about Tangsoodo.  But I do have some comments.  I notice that some of the principles that you wish to teach are actually a little higher up on the difficulty level, which is fine, provided that they intend to stick around for a while, and really learn movement... If so, why do they not want to just learn the art?

Having said that, you may also want to consider adding in knee strikes and head butts, I notice those were missing.  What about jointlocks and breaks?  Easy to learn, quick and effective.  Intercepting and destructions.  And heavy on the defense - parrys, ducking, weaving, etc - evasiveness, to build the attributes of getting out of the way of the attack.

My two cents, my friend. :asian:


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## loki09789 (Sep 9, 2004)

Upnorth,
Good fundamental outline for the course.

Questions:  How long do you plan on the course lasting?  Continuous, limited (12weeks or the like)?  Will it be multi series (Level one:  empty hand stand up, Level two:  Empty hand stand up and basic grappling....and so on)?

Suggestions:
Consult the local LEO department or research the penal code for reference during class.  There may be a community police training officer in your local department that can even do a guest talk about "street" topics like awareness, preventative measures/habits, legal proceedings and so on.

Self defense is primarily about application and purpose.  Martial Arts is primarily about skill and knowledge, IMO.  Sometimes the material will overlap these two foci, but there are Self Defense specific topics that an art based program may never touch.

I like the emphasis on basic foundational movement in each category.

How is this different from your white through say Green or Beginner level/Pre-intermediate level instruction?



			
				upnorthkyosa said:
			
		

> In my Dojang, I teach my primary art, Tangsoodo. I have some people coming in who are not interested in learning a MA. They want to learn basic self defense. The following is a rough idea for curriculum that may or may not become a class. Any comments would be appreciated.
> 
> upnorthkyosa
> 
> ...


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## bignick (Sep 9, 2004)

i would have to say the regimen is going to depend on what the class is going to be...

a couple week/month course...or an ongoing thing...

for the couple week/month thing...everything needs to be kept as simple and easy as possible...high intensity training, highly repetitive and so forth...an ongoing course can take more time to develop the skills


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## bignick (Sep 9, 2004)

also, you may want to include teaching awareness and some common sense things(don't walk alone at night, watch for suspicious people, let others know where your going)...in addition to straight techniques


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## D_Brady (Sep 9, 2004)

I agree with bignick how much time you have with students is a big factor. Enviromentel Awareness is a big deal also.

I personaly like improvised weapons, I like bringing in a big box of stuff and have everyone go through it. ask them what they could use for weapons and how then you show applications.I teach self-defense classes at my school for women ,security, and other agencies and it's made me a better martial artist.

 Have fun and see if it opens a new world for you.


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## Baytor (Sep 9, 2004)

To go with what Big Nick said (because I was about to), I recomend the book "The Gift of Fear" by Gavin DeBecker.  Great book about awareness.


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## Andrew Green (Sep 9, 2004)

Footwork
Pummeling (Fighting for control in a clinch)
Positional grappling

If you can't move you can't fight...

Basic takedowns -> Takedown defences

How not to get hit - A basic peak a boo style structure and how to crash the line

Knees and strikes in a clinch.

Breaking away from a clinch.

Standing up off the ground.


It's really simple. You got to first show how to move and avoid getting hurt.

THen you got to give a way to hurt the other guy if necessary.

Then you got to show how to break away and get out of there.

Then you got to convince them that they got to keep doing this stuff and progressing or it will all be forgotten and useless within a month of your course ending...


Oh and one more thing.  Keep it realistic.  They aren't gonna be able to fight off a larger, stronger, aggressive opponent based on a short course.  Hitting someone with there keys once might give a second to act, but after that they just succeeded in really pissing the guy off...


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## Makalakumu (Sep 9, 2004)

flatlander said:
			
		

> Upnorth, I must preface by offering that I know zero about Tangsoodo.  But I do have some comments.  I notice that some of the principles that you wish to teach are actually a little higher up on the difficulty level, which is fine, provided that they intend to stick around for a while, and really learn movement... If so, why do they not want to just learn the art?
> 
> Having said that, you may also want to consider adding in knee strikes and head butts, I notice those were missing.  What about jointlocks and breaks?  Easy to learn, quick and effective.  Intercepting and destructions.  And heavy on the defense - parrys, ducking, weaving, etc - evasiveness, to build the attributes of getting out of the way of the attack.
> 
> My two cents, my friend. :asian:



I don't know why they don't want to learn the art.  I think it may have something to do with the amount of time and commitment.  Maybe they have had bad experiences with MA in the past.  We have some pretty crappy instructors up here who are "big time" in the community.

As far as technique goes, _knee kicks_ is my term for knee strikes.  I didn't think about head butts.  As far as joint locks go, arm bars and legs locks are included, but I left out wrist locks, I am thinking about the utilization of gross motor skills for self defense.  Those are easier for people to pick up.



			
				loki09789 said:
			
		

> Questions: How long do you plan on the course lasting? Continuous, limited (12weeks or the like)?
> 
> Will it be multi series (Level one: empty hand stand up, Level two: Empty hand stand up and basic grappling....and so on)?



My plan is to have a continuous class for as long as someone wants to train.  I want the course to be a multileveled mix with beginners and advanced students.  I also want to keep the curriculum simple and principle based so we can drill.  To me, an advanced student is a student who has learned how to perform all of the techniques correctly and has had a lot of practice with drilling.  Many of the drills Andrew Green suggested are in my head.



			
				loki09789 said:
			
		

> How is this different from your white through say Green or Beginner level/Pre-intermediate level instruction?



Much of this stuff is part of the beginner level in TSD.  Some is intermediate.  If you strip away the trappings of the art, and boil down the basics for self defense, this precipitates.  

Any other comments?  Do I need to add any principles?  I was thinking of adding _Anything Can be a Weapon_.  What do you think?  Other Weapons?  Other basic gross motor techniques?

upnorthkyosa


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## mhouse (Sep 9, 2004)

I like your outline and the concept. The only thing I might suggest is adding a little about body mechanics.  e.g. where the head goes the body follows, being aware of how a body responds to a strike, etc.

 Also, add ears to your golden targets. 13 pounds of pressure to remove them and they often stick out enough to ge a good place to grab on to the head. A good slap to the ear be pretty stunning too.

 You may also want to check with the local police. They often have resources for self-defense training and their program may have some interesting techniques that you can add along with details on situational awareness.


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## loki09789 (Sep 9, 2004)

upnorthkyosa said:
			
		

> My plan is to have a continuous class for as long as someone wants to train. I want the course to be a multileveled mix with beginners and advanced students. I also want to keep the curriculum simple and principle based so we can drill. To me, an advanced student is a student who has learned how to perform all of the techniques correctly and has had a lot of practice with drilling. Many of the drills Andrew Green suggested are in my head.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yup.  Simple but consistent and effective at intense levels is better than mediocre and inconsistent at really 'cool' stuff.

I wouldn't say that it is a lack of any respect or a negative impression of 'martial arts' but a matter of knowing what they want to get from it.  Many will probably see the benefits of practicing the physical skills with a mental focus on performance and perfection for self defense and may transition into the 'regular class' over time.

I teach and train for a self defense purpose so I use my martial training to develop skills that accomplish that purpose.  I don't dislike artisitic training as artistry or anything like that, I just have a particular focus on how and what I am preparing myself to use the artistic skills.

I think the "anything can be a weapon" things is a wake up call to being aware of how things can be used AND how they can be used against you as well.  If you don't have it, I would suggest viewing/purchasing a copy of "Surviving Edged Weapons" as an informational video to draw from or even show to the class.  Right in line with that "weapon" idea.

Beyond the 'moral obligation' emphasis though, I still say a legal orientation or overview would be good to include.  It educates students AND covers your but to a degree for colateral liability if someone tries to sue "up the food chain" in a civil case relating to a student using what you have taught.


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## Makalakumu (Sep 9, 2004)

loki09789 said:
			
		

> I think the "anything can be a weapon" things is a wake up call to being aware of how things can be used AND how they can be used against you as well.  If you don't have it, I would suggest viewing/purchasing a copy of "Surviving Edged Weapons" as an informational video to draw from or even show to the class.  Right in line with that "weapon" idea.
> 
> Beyond the 'moral obligation' emphasis though, I still say a legal orientation or overview would be good to include.  It educates students AND covers your but to a degree for colateral liability if someone tries to sue "up the food chain" in a civil case relating to a student using what you have taught.



My instructor show his class that flick.  Well worth it.  I've also read Gavin Debecker's books.  I plan on outlining a list of mental awareness points to go along with the physical techniques.

Good point about the legal aspects.  

upnorthkyosa


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## OC Kid (Sep 10, 2004)

I am a Martial Arts teacher. I am not a Self Defense teacher.

That being said, I would think the foundation for a SD class would be
1) Awareness, How to determine who is/could be a criminal and how they set there victems up. I believe that they are not for the most part arbitrary, that Hoods pick their victems.

2) Aviodance, How not to look/act like a target

3) What to do if attacked, scream/ yell/ kick them in the privates or go for the eyes ect.

The techniques that you described are more for a basic MA class then a full blown SD class. IMO


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## Zepp (Sep 10, 2004)

OC Kid said:
			
		

> 1) Awareness, How to determine who is/could be a criminal and how they set there victems up. I believe that they are not for the most part arbitrary, that Hoods pick their victems.
> 
> 2) Aviodance, How not to look/act like a target



I think these two can be partially taught by giving students a sort of mental "homework" assignment.  Discuss with them how to "think like a predator" and have them size up the potential targets they come across in their daily routine (friends, strangers, themselves, etc.).  You can learn a lot about how not to make yourself an easy target by pretending you're the bad guy and looking for targets of your own.

I think the pacing of a pure self-defense class should be different than martial arts session.  You'll want to take time to discuss various issues, like what I mentioned above.  Just a suggestion.


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## Danny T (Sep 11, 2004)

I am a Martial Arts instructor, Police Tactics instructor, Anti-terrorist instructor as well as a Self-Defense/Protection instructor. In my opinion there are several major differences in them.

The curriculum outlined for your self-defense program only addresses one aspect of self-defense. The physical combative aspect. This should be but a small portion of any serious self-defense program.  Any good program must define its goals and how it is to be achieved.

From your listed curriculum all you are intending to teach is what target to hit on another person, how to hit the target and what to do if you go to the ground. That is not self-defense that is some basic aspects of fighting.

#1.  Define Self-Defense.  What is the attendees perspective of self-defense? Once they have attended the class/classes what will be their definition of self-defense? Fighting? Is fighting self-defense or is it but a small portion of self-defense. In my opinion it is only a small part and should be only a part of the program.

#2.  Based upon the definition of Self-defense you should then develop your program.

Websters Dictionary defines self-defense as; Defense of ones self, ones property, or ones reputation.

Self is defined as; Same, identical, Pure, unmixed, an individual known or considered as the subject of his own consciousness. Personal interest or advantage.  

Lets use personal interest or advantage.

Defense is defined as; The act of defending or to protect.  Therefore I like to use the terms in this manner.

Self-Defense is the act of doing what one must do to protect those persons and objects of ones personal interest. Ones self, ones love-ones, and ones belongings.

A good self-defense program must provide instruction and training in:
Awareness; 
This should be the #1 line in self-defense. Provide education in what to look for in a threat, where to look for it and how to avoid and/or protect against threats or menaces. Your self-defense training must be oriented toward recognizing clearly defined levels of threat and using the appropriate responses. If it is not organized around a proven scale of threats, danger signals, danger levels, appropriate use of force and legal ramifications  you are in as much danger from your self-defense training as you are from the threat. We tend to focus on fighting in our assessment of self-defense. However with the stated definition we must broaden our focus of threats. There are many different threats we must be concerned with not just fighting. Depending on where you live and work some other threats we all must be aware of are: Fire, tornado, hurricanes, flooding, earthquakes, and today terrorist. How we assess and deal with these threats are going to be different yet all fall within the definition of self-defense. Protection of ones self, ones love-ones, and ones belongings. Why do we lock the doors to our homes and automobiles? To protect from someone getting into them. Why? Because we are aware of the possibility of someone taking or endangering our personal belongings. That is self-defense! No fight just locks. Placing outdoor lighting in strategic areas is self-defense. Being aware of the threat of the weather and taking the appropriate action is self-defense. Understand the threat, have an action plan, and train those who will be affected.

If you are going to work the fighting curriculum only then you should also address the aftermath of the fight action.

In the much of the martial arts world, there is the fantasy that one's style will work in all serious self-defense situations. There are also the dreams about the legal ramifications of violence. In fact I dont think that most schools, programs, seminars even think about the legal aspects. Besides just surviving the attack, you will have at least three other obstacles to overcome.

*Police
*Criminal Charges 
*Civil Lawsuits

How do you handle yourself and any witness to the action immediately following and during the police investigation will have a direct affect on the outcome of any criminal or civil actions taken against you.

There is much more to a good self-defense program however I hope this will at least get you to thinking more about what you will provide for your attendees.

What about first aid?
What about the physiological and psychological ramifications? Or do you simply give attendees a few techniques and a false sense of reality?

If your program doesnt at least address these areas and others then you are not providing a self-defense program but merely a basic fighting program.

Danny T


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## Mark Lynn (Sep 20, 2004)

upnorthyosa

A while back I asked my karate instructor about a curriculmn for a self defense class (the YMCA I was teaching at asked me to create one for women).  After a long talk with him he had a simple plan based on building on techniques with the palm strike.  With high repition and hitting targets such as focus mitts or something.  This class included some lecture but mostly the repition of striking, movement drills and some defense against grabs and such.

This was a short 6 week hour long class program.  Now I thought "man this is simple, I should add to it" but in actuality it was pretty goal specific.  Teach them to hit (palm heel), where to hit, have them hit something for contact, teach them to move, and hopefully they will remember it when and if they get attacked X amount of years from now.

Like several have said before I think you have to have defined how long your class will be and how frequent, your goals of your class, and as your are currently doing figuring out what to teach.  But I think figuring out what to teach should come last after figuring out how long your class will be/fequentcy and the goals of the class.

Since it sounds like it will be an on going class and also a possible feeder to your Tang Soo Do course.  Than I would cover areas that wouldn't be covered in the TSD course such as different aspects of crime/criminal mind etc. etc. to teach them about the need for SD.  Some books that I read in preparing for a class to teach some women with my union were.
1)  Strong on Defense (reommneded by someone on this forum at MT)
2)  A couple of books by John Douglas/Mark Olshaker: Obession (deals with rape and stalking.  Antomy of Motive (this was the first book I read that introduced to the author,) good book but Obsession was much more in line with the WSD material I was looking for.

Got to head for work
Mark


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