# Beginner in self defense using cane want suggestions



## Alan0354 (May 30, 2021)

I have been practicing self defense with a cane for about 2 1/2 months only mainly because of all the attack on older Asians lately. A cane is the most inconspicuous for a 68 years old senior like me.  I mainly use my experience from Kick Boxing I practiced long time ago and watching some instruction videos and youtubes to filter out what I consider useful.  My goal is mainly self defense, not learning any particular style. I recorded a short video what I have been practicing so far, please make suggestions what I need to work on and watch out.






I am using a 11oz rattan stick with skin in the video. I notice my footwork is slow, I think it's because of the old age. I wonder whether I should increase the weight of the cane. Since I am slow on the feet, a little slower on the cane might not be as critical. A heavier cane will give me more stopping power.
Thanks


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## Xue Sheng (May 30, 2021)

Videos are not the best but if that is what you got look at the program Tom Bisio has

Self-Defense Walking Cane

It is IMO more realistic


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## jobo (May 30, 2021)

Alan0354 said:


> I have been practicing self defense with a cane for about 2 1/2 months only mainly because of all the attack on older Asians lately. A cane is the most inconspicuous for a 68 years old senior like me.  I mainly use my experience from Kick Boxing I practiced long time ago and watching some instruction videos and youtubes to filter out what I consider useful.  My goal is mainly self defense, not learning any particular style. I recorded a short video what I have been practicing so far, please make suggestions what I need to work on and watch out.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


stop        twirling it like a cheer leader and practice hitting things


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## Alan0354 (May 30, 2021)

jobo said:


> stop        twirling it like a cheer leader and practice hitting things


Thanks

Still too much? I thought I should at least put some in.  I usually practice with a little heavier sticks I don't twirl as much( too heavy for that). I thought I supposed to show at least doing a little as this is FMA!!!

You mean hitting bags? Yes, I do that also as part of the practice. I even have sticks that wrapped with rubber foam to protect the heavy bags from being damage and do rounds on the bags. Yes, hitting bags is a totally different thing, just like kicking and punching, nothing can substitute actually hitting something.


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## Christopher Adamchek (May 31, 2021)

basic active attacks - check 
without large expanse youll need a hidden thrust, a block/parry or two, and a few simple hook controls


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## jobo (May 31, 2021)

Alan0354 said:


> Thanks
> 
> Still too much? I thought I should at least put some in.  I usually practice with a little heavier sticks I don't twirl as much( too heavy for that). I thought I supposed to show at least doing a little as this is FMA!!!
> 
> You mean hitting bags? Yes, I do that also as part of the practice. I even have sticks that wrapped with rubber foam to protect the heavy bags from being damage and do rounds on the bags. Yes, hitting bags is a totally different thing, just like kicking and punching, nothing can substitute actually hitting something.


ambush,,,, practice swinging it from an at rest position hanging down at the side and taking their head off, it coming wide probably at the limit of their sideways visionn,  your almost certainly going to catch them by suprise,you may only get one go before they take it off you, make it count


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## RagingBull (May 31, 2021)

Alan0354 said:


> I have been practicing self defense with a cane for about 2 1/2 months only mainly because of all the attack on older Asians lately. A cane is the most inconspicuous for a 68 years old senior like me.  I mainly use my experience from Kick Boxing I practiced long time ago and watching some instruction videos and youtubes to filter out what I consider useful.  My goal is mainly self defense, not learning any particular style. I recorded a short video what I have been practicing so far, please make suggestions what I need to work on and watch out.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Look up Emin if you have a school near you or latosa escrima. simple & direct. no BS spinning sticks & fancy stuff.


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## RagingBull (May 31, 2021)




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## RagingBull (May 31, 2021)

watch @ 8:45  how he strikes...   Pfoom..Pfoom   power


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## Tony Dismukes (May 31, 2021)

For a couple of months worth of being self taught, you're not doing badly, but there are definitely some things I would suggest you change up.

1) Your strikes are essentially what would be called a "moulinet" in saber practice. You'll also see it in single-stick practice, but since single-stick was largely a training tool for saber & backsword fighting that's understandable. You're spinning the stick in circles or figure eights primarily from your wrist and forearm. This can be effective in sword work because a long blade can inflict considerable damage without requiring massive power. However a stick or cane will be much less effective with this sort of strike. There is a place in stick fighting for lighter twirly strikes like that, but they are very much a secondary technique for after you learn to deliver power strikes which can reliably inflict knockout power.

I would recommend you start out with two basic strikes. 

First is the "caveman" - a downward diagonal strike from right to left. Start with your right foot forward and the stick cocked over your right shoulder then pivot your hips and lead foot like you were delivering a lead hook from boxing as you use your entire body to pull the stick in a full arc down and across your body. The hand holding the stick will end up close to your left hip, and you have the option to use your left hand to catch your right wrist to arrest the momentum. You also have the option of starting with a left foot lead and then stepping forward to deliver the strike in the same way. The key is that you are using your entire body to deliver the strike with the maximum power. This is essentially the most natural, instinctive way that even an untrained person might swing a stick if they were really trying to hurt someone. Even so, this "instinctive" approach can be refined with lots of repetition to increase your speed, power, balance, accuracy, and non-telegraphic delivery. (Down the line you can also learn how to let this strike naturally flow into a recovery arc which leads to follow up strikes, but for now just focus on developing a strike which could reliably damage or deter a tough aggressive adversary with a high-pain tolerance.)

The second is just the reverse strike coming upwards diagonally from left to right. After you've delivered your caveman strike, twist your hips back the other direction and use your whole body to bring your stick back up through the same path it came down. If you used your left hand to catch your right wrist on the downwards swing, you can now use it to push off and give your swing a little more oomph. You should end up in the same position you started your caveman strike, with the stick cocked over your right shoulder.

If you can consistently deliver solid speed and power with those two strikes, then you've already developed a lot of self-defense potential against an untrained attacker.  Next I'd recommend working on a forehand and backhand horizontal strike, using pretty much the same body dynamics. Only once you know that you have reliable knockout power in those four strikes would I move on to twirls, jabs, and fancier strikes.

2) You are frequently ending your downward left-to-right diagonal strikes with your cane extended out to your right and low. There are techniques you can use from this position, but it's really not ideal for stick fighting. When you do get to the point of practicing the downward left-to-right diagonal strike, allow the momentum to carry your stick in an arc all the way up to your right shoulder, where it will be cocked and ready for the caveman strike.

3) I wouldn't worry too much about your footwork speed at the moment. I would recommend that you work on your footwork angles. Try to cut 45 degree angles both forward and backwards.

There's a lot more I could help you with in person, but the suggestions above are things you can work on solo and hopefully see some results.


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## Alan0354 (May 31, 2021)

Thanks Tony

Thanks for the detail instruction. I practiced this morning on what you suggested. Starting from left or right shoulder, cut diagonally down( with right hand). When cut from left shoulder down, I try to recover the cane back to right shoulder. Then reverse from lower and swing diagonally up ( like reverse the down cut). The reverse is HARD. The hand is in strange position and is hard to swing hard. Took me a while to get a little smoother.

I have to try swing from low to high on a heavy bag, I worry the stick might fly off when I hit something. Today is not the bag hitting day as I have to give the heavy bag a day off!!! I worry the stick might break the bags. I already put foam rubber tubes over the canes to hit the bag, but it's still quite harsh. So I limit to hitting bags twice a week only. The picture show 2) and 4) are padded. 2) is lighter for single hand strike and 4 is heavier for two hand strikes.





I usually use a heavier cane and don't do as much twirling as in the video. But I never practice like you suggested. I am going to practice your suggestions for say a month and see what happens.

Thanks
​


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## Alan0354 (May 31, 2021)

jobo said:


> ambush,,,, practice swinging it from an at rest position hanging down at the side and taking their head off, it coming wide probably at the limit of their sideways visionn,  your almost certainly going to catch them by suprise,you may only get one go before they take it off you, make it count


Thanks

I practiced swing from rest position hanging down. It's NOT easy. I got a little better, still have a long way to go. Feels very unnatural to swing from that position. But I know it's important to strike like that. So I just keep practicing.

Thanks


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## geezer (May 31, 2021)

RagingBull said:


> watch @ 8:45  how he strikes...   Pfoom..Pfoom   power


Raging - Had no idea that you were a fellow member of the _Pfoom!_ club. GM Rene was my teacher back in the 80s -90s. Later trained a little bit with Emin too. I teach a little escrima here in Arizona and you are entirely right.

First thing Alan needs to train is _power generation_. Grab the cane with two hands and learn to drop his weight into the strike. Then build some "short power".


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## geezer (May 31, 2021)

Christopher Adamchek said:


> basic active attacks - check
> without large expanse youll need a hidden thrust, a block/parry or two, and a few simple hook controls


For self-defense, I'd leave out the hook controls.

1. The best thing about the _crook_ (if your cane has one) is how _it aids weapon retention_.
2. The second thing is that if you swing it holding the straight end (regardless of number 1 above), it adds _weight and augments impact_.
3. The worst thing is to try and use the crook to grapple and lock.

If you are an older guy training for self-defense, remember that your attacker is likely younger, bigger, stronger and more accustomed to violence than you are. Swinging a cane properly (with real force) gives you _distance and deterrence_. IMO, getting in close and trying to use hook controls is ill-considered against a stronger opponent. He may well just take your weapon away and use it on you.

...but then my thinking has been unduly influenced by the likes of GM Latosa, Brady Brazil, Emin Boztepe, and DTE GM Martin Torres.


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## Alan0354 (May 31, 2021)

geezer said:


> Raging - Had no idea that you were a fellow member of the _Pfoom!_ club. GM Rene was my teacher back in the 80s -90s. Later trained a little bit with Emin too. I teach a little escrima here in Arizona and you are entirely right.
> 
> First thing Alan need to train is power generation. Grab the cane with two hands and learn to drop his weight into the strike. Then build some "short power".


Thanks

I do practice with two hands. Actually because I have capal tunnel on my right hand( I had surgery on my left already), I actually spend equal time on right, left and both hands. I afraid I need surgery on my right hand sooner or later. My right hand will be disabled for a few months. So I need to practice with left hand also. I only use right hand in my video. My left hand is not as good.

I am splitting equal time between left, right and both hands. Same as in hitting the heavy bags.


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## Alan0354 (May 31, 2021)

geezer said:


> For self-defense,* I'd leave out the hook controls.*
> 
> 1. The best thing about the _crook_ (if your can has one) is how _it aids weapon retention_.
> 2. The second thing is that if you swing it holding the straight end (regardless of number 1 above), it adds _weight and augments impact_.
> ...


I agree totally, I skip all the hook, block and all that. I just laugh those off. I did enough Tae Kwon Do and Kick boxing and sparing to know, Unless you fight someone that is a whole lot worst in skill than you, you likely don't have time to react to an attack to block, step out of the way and all that fancy stuff. This is particular true if I am practice alone, I have no one to practice the timing. More importantly, I am slow also from old age.

That's what I was talking about watching youtube, when I see demo to use the hook to hook, grab and all that, I just fast forward. Too many people like to talk and make up all the fancy move that is absolutely useless in real life.

I do spend time practicing stepping back, side to side after I strike to avoid counter attack. When I practice, I usually don't twirl the cane around like in the video. I actually use a lighter cane to do the video thinking that since this is FMA that use a lot of twirling, I should put it in. When I use a heavier cane, I don't twirl.

Yes, I turn the cane around for two hand strike also.

Thanks


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## geezer (May 31, 2021)

Alan, read and re-read Tony's post above. He really knows his stuff. Like he said, learn a powerful #1 or "Caveman" strike and a #2 or "Reverse". To that I would add a #3 and #4 or horizontal strikes (like swinging a bat) which you can direct at your opponent's legs. 

Finally I'd add a low and high double handed thrust. Here are so miscellaneous videos that I thought were better than average:

1. Michael Janich with a few self defense ideas: 





2. James Lafond, a really eccentric, contrarian guy with a really common-sense view of how to use a cane. Also, he's old and fat like me:


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## Alan0354 (May 31, 2021)

I have problem with reverse strike, first from left slashing down to the right side, then reverse coming up from left to the right side. This is the same idea from Jobo to hold the stick with right hand with the stick pointing to the ground( just like you walk with it), then swing up from that position. I just cannot generate force.  I tried this on the kicking bag, I can't even make a pop coming from lower right swinging up to the left!!! Any pointers for me?

Slashing from right down to left and reverse the swing from lower left back to upper right is doable, not as hard as I want, but at least I can strike. But the first strike from cane resting position pointing on the ground is about the most important move to surprise the attacker. I just don't know how to hit hard.

BTW, I do practice horizontal swing from left or right to the leg all the time, I missed a lot of my movement in my video. I also practice two hand poking like the video by Geezer in post #17. My question is whether it has the same stopping power as swinging the stick.

I know I have a thread on my canes, I am currently carrying 2) in the picture. It might look thin, actually it is 13.5oz make of very stiff material. It is the Cold Steel City Stick. Problem is it is not good for two hand. 1) is the rattan, it's only 11oz, but as you suggested, I can turn it around and hold the end with two hand and strike hard. 3) is 17oz, it's a little heavy for single hand. I am working up to it, I am not there yet on 17oz. For two hands, it's perfect.

My question is whether the 11oz rattan cane have enough stopping power, this, I can have option of turn it around and use two hands. The place is out of stock, when they have new shipment, I can ask them to pick an even bigger and heavier one like 12 to 13oz after cutting it down.

Here is my 3 favorite canes:





Notice I almost cut the hook completely off, there goes to show I never care to even think about hooking and all that. I just want to cut as much weight off as possible.

I was told with the given weight, the thinner the stick, the better as it create more pressure as the contact area is smaller and do more damage. That's why I choose the 2) as the main cane so far as it's 13.5oz, quite heavy and only 3/4" diameter.

Thanks


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## Tony Dismukes (Jun 1, 2021)

Alan0354 said:


> I have problem with reverse strike, first from left slashing down to the right side, then reverse coming up from left to the right side. This is the same idea from Jobo to hold the stick with right hand with the stick pointing to the ground( just like you walk with it), then swing up from that position. I just cannot generate force. I tried this on the kicking bag, I can't even make a pop coming from lower right swinging up to the left!!! Any pointers for me?
> 
> Slashing from right down to left and reverse the swing from lower left back to upper right is doable, not as hard as I want, but at least I can strike. But the first strike from cane resting position pointing on the ground is about the most important move to surprise the attacker. I just don't know how to hit hard.


First, let's make sure you're starting from the correct position for the upwards backhand diagonal strike. This is not the same as starting with the stick on the ground - that's a much trickier position to generate power from.

After you've completed your initial right-handed caveman strike, your right hand should be in the general vicinity of your left hip - perhaps a little higher depending on your proportions. You may have your right wrist cupped against your left palm. The tip of the stick should be pointing upwards and slightly backwards. Your hips should be rotated to the left and your front foot should be pivoted to the left, as if you had just thrown a lead hook. Your body should feel somewhat like a coiled spring - lots of potential energy ready to be released. To use that energy, drive off your left leg to uncoil your body and pivot your hips (and your front foot) back to the front. It should feel somewhat like throwing a rear cross or reverse punch as a follow up to a hook. In fact, you can even use your left hand in a palm strike motion to help throw your stick arm along its way. Don't aim for the surface of your target - you're swinging the stick all the way back up to your starting position cocked on your right shoulder.

Give that a try and if you're still having problems then post another video and we can try to troubleshoot any issues.


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## Blackstaff (Jun 1, 2021)

Alan0354 said:


> I have been practicing self defense with a cane for about 2 1/2 months only mainly because of all the attack on older Asians lately. A cane is the most inconspicuous for a 68 years old senior like me.  I mainly use my experience from Kick Boxing I practiced long time ago and watching some instruction videos and youtubes to filter out what I consider useful.  My goal is mainly self defense, not learning any particular style. I recorded a short video what I have been practicing so far, please make suggestions what I need to work on and watch out.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I happened across this thread, and I think you already have tons of great advice here, much of it I'd have given myself as a disabled cane user. 

I occasionally use twirls as warmups and to keep joints limber, but I don't personally like it at all for any kind of defense as you could drop it or it could get taken away relatively easily, etc etc. I mostly practice with those basic strikes (up and down) that have been mentioned previously. 

There are some pretty nice videos here. Most cane stuff I find is for abled and strong people who just happen to want to use the cane but could just as easily toss it no problem. It is difficult, but not impossible, to find people who produce instruction for people who train with a cane who.... need a cane. I get why that is, and I am happy the cane is sort of experiencing a surge in popularity (or so it seems, but this could be my confirmation bias due to my own interests and searches) but I think a lot of that is that the cane is innocuous, and people are looking for this sort of "take anywhere" force multiplier. I enjoy training with a cane, but sometimes I can't help but wonder how I'd feel about it if I was a person who didn't actually _need _a cane just to move about daily. I don't think I'd do it. But I'm biased a bit by my need for a cane, and I barely remember what it was like to not need one since aged 16.

Training with a cane on your own is hard (IMHO) because it can be difficult to prepare for situations where you might use it or someone else might grab it. I applaud you for taking this initiative and I hope you find it rewarding.


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## geezer (Jun 1, 2021)

Alan0354 said:


> ...the first strike from cane resting position pointing on the ground is about the most important move to surprise the attacker. I just don't know how to hit hard.


Yeah, generating power while bringing the cane vertically upward from resting with the tip on the ground can be tough. Here are two other options.

1. *If you have space* (i.e. your opponent is not right in your face) grip the shaft of your cane (using a normal grip with your thumb and forefinger pointing downward toward the tip), step diagonally forward and to the right with your right leg,  and bring the cane up circling the tip behind you, up and over into a hard downward or diagonal slash (your "caveman" strike). 

The backward to forward circling motion or "redondo" should be small and quick setting up a powerful downward blow as you step into the movement.

2. *If your opponent rushes in and closes *as you initiate your redondo to "caveman" strike as described above, shorten your movement and as you circle your arm overhead bring the punyo (butt or handle) of the cane down in a hammer-fist to your attacker's nose or the side of his head. 

This is just a shortened version of the previously described strike. Practice stepping and _dropping your body weight_ into both strikes.

3.* If your opponent is already very close* momentarily extend your left palm towards your attacker and step back with your right leg, creating space and "blading" or angling your body to the right. As you step back, slide your right hand down on the cane and grip it about 10 inches down the shaft. Pop the tip up horizontally and grab it with your left hand. Your hands should be palm-downward and evenly spaced on the shaft of the cane.   Now you are ready to drive the tip into your opponent using your body-weight like a battering ram. 
Hit once or twice hard, then step back and swing with the full length of the cane at his knees. And then ...run away!!!! 



Alan0354 said:


> ...I also practice two hand poking like the video by Geezer in post #17. My question is whether it has the same stopping power as swinging the stick.


Stopping power? Heck yeah! ...Try this in front of you bag or target:  

Stand as described in #3 above, with your left leg forward, and body angled to the right. Hold your cane horizontally, and pointing toward the bag. Grasp it firmly with your hands palm downward, evenly spaced, approximately shoulder width apart, leaving about 8 inches of the tip-end of the cane protruding. 

Now move the cane back and forth horizontally, swinging it like a battering ram into the bag. Let your body sway with the movement, and your body weight do the work. You should be able to generate a_ lot _of force.

Next, try the same movement on the _high line _with the cane held up in front of your shoulders (like you had just done a "pull-up" on a bar). Try different angles, ....angling down, up, etc. 

Last, work going from low-line to high ling and back ...that is hitting low, then high, then low again,play with your footwork, add forward and lateral movement, step back to long swings, etc. Make this part of your shadow boxing routine!


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## Alan0354 (Jun 1, 2021)

Blackstaff said:


> I happened across this thread, and I think you already have tons of great advice here, much of it I'd have given myself as a disabled cane user.
> 
> I occasionally use twirls as warmups and to keep joints limber, but I don't personally like it at all for any kind of defense as you could drop it or it could get taken away relatively easily, etc etc. I mostly practice with those basic strikes (up and down) that have been mentioned previously.
> 
> ...


Cane is definitely getting popular lately, try look for a rattan cane. For a while, they were all sold out. With the political climate now, criminals are emboldened, riot, burning and looting all over the place. Particular I am an Asian, Older Asians are being attacked all over the place. That's the ONLY reason I even think of a cane.

I did extensive research in what cane to buy, you can even read my other thread here: Help me choose a self defense walking cane

I am one of those that don't need a cane but carry a cane all the time when I go out. I am surprised when I told my friends ( in the late 50s and 60s), they all frown on the idea because a cane make them look old and weak. I have no issue with that, Hey, if it keep me safe, you can laugh all you want. I still do a lot of exercise, practicing kick boxing type at home and weight lifting. Including cane, I put in 6 to 7 hours a week in exercising. I take a cane over a knife any time of the day. I have guns, but I don't want to carry it all over the place. On top of the cane, I carry pepper spray in my left pocket so I use cane with right hand and pepper spray with left hand. This is something you should consider also. Pepper spray can be effective.

It might be too personal to ask what happened that you need to use a cane, but one thing I would say, do weight training on the upper body, strength make everything better. Half of my workout is weight training. yes, without sparring, it's hard to be very good. I did Tae Kwon Do before and did sparring, I hope I can draw on that experience. But I sure don't practice any fancy moves, blocking, hooking and all that. You need sparring to practice, it's useless to practice on my own, just waste of time. I concentrate on footwork and simple striking.


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## Alan0354 (Jun 2, 2021)

Tony Dismukes said:


> First, let's make sure you're starting from the correct position for the upwards backhand diagonal strike. This is not the same as starting with the stick on the ground - that's a much trickier position to generate power from.
> 
> After you've completed your initial right-handed caveman strike, your right hand should be in the general vicinity of your left hip - perhaps a little higher depending on your proportions. You may have your right wrist cupped against your left palm. The tip of the stick should be pointing upwards and slightly backwards. Your hips should be rotated to the left and your front foot should be pivoted to the left, as if you had just thrown a lead hook. Your body should feel somewhat like a coiled spring - lots of potential energy ready to be released. To use that energy, drive off your left leg to uncoil your body and pivot your hips (and your front foot) back to the front. It should feel somewhat like throwing a rear cross or reverse punch as a follow up to a hook. In fact, you can even use your left hand in a palm strike motion to help throw your stick arm along its way. Don't aim for the surface of your target - you're swinging the stick all the way back up to your starting position cocked on your right shoulder.
> 
> Give that a try and if you're still having problems then post another video and we can try to troubleshoot any issues.


Thanks Tony

My biggest issue is swinging the stick up from right to left, that is the stick in right hand pointing to ground, swing up diagonally to the left.......BUT, I think I really need to practice for a week before I say anything more. Swinging up is always harder, so I never really practice them. I mainly swing diagonally down from left or right, swing horizontally from left and right to the knee. that's the 4 basic swings I practice.

Question is what is up swing for? what part of the body I am supposed to hit?

Lastly but very important question: Do I practice to swing hard to build up strength and power? What is the best exercise to increase striking power? So far, my exercise is twirling the stick in figure 8 none stop for like 5 minutes with each hand. The forearm really starts to burn after a while. I am hopping to get more swinging power. I know use feet, hip, shoulder to combine to get power(just like punching), but I find my weakest link is still the forearm and the wrist.

Thanks


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## Alan0354 (Jun 2, 2021)

geezer said:


> Yeah, generating power while bringing the cane vertically upward from resting with the tip on the ground can be tough. Here are two other options.
> 
> 1. *If you have space* (i.e. your opponent is not right in your face) grip the shaft of your cane (using a normal grip with your thumb and forefinger pointing downward toward the tip), step diagonally forward and to the right with your right leg,  and bring the cane up circling the tip behind you, up and over into a hard downward or diagonal slash (your "caveman" strike).
> 
> ...


Thank Geezer

Sorry about the delay reply. A lot of things to try out, it will take me some time before I can comment back. So far, I only try #1. I find when I use right hand holding cane, it's more natural to use left foot to step to the left while raising the cane with right hand to swing from top right down to the lower left. I have been practicing with cane pointing down first, then step while raising the cane and strike down. I practice both hands. this is definitely better than swinging the cane up from pointing to the ground.

I really have to take some time to practice.

Thanks


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## geezer (Jun 2, 2021)

Alan0354 said:


> Thank Geezer
> 
> Sorry about the delay reply. A lot of things to try out, it will take me some time before I can comment back. So far, I only try #1. I find when I use right hand holding cane, it's more natural to use left foot to step to the left while raising the cane with right hand to swing from top right down to the lower left. I have been practicing with cane pointing down first, then step while raising the cane and strike down. I practice both hands. this is definitely better than swinging the cane up from pointing to the ground.
> 
> ...


Agreed, practice and go with what works for you. But, post back after a while and let us know how it works out!


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## Alan0354 (Jun 11, 2021)

Hi

I have been practicing, swinging hard and using legs, waist and shoulder to swing harder, using more the arm instead only the wrist. Everything is going fine.

But I am also thinking, this way of swinging, the stick is travel in a much bigger arc. In real life, you don't have a clear big area to swing without obstruction. This means the big swing might end up hitting other things in the way and it's not practical. I am starting to practice more poking and all that. Any other suggestions?

Thanks


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## Blindside (Jun 21, 2021)

Alan0354 said:


> Hi
> 
> I have been practicing, swinging hard and using legs, waist and shoulder to swing harder, using more the arm instead only the wrist. Everything is going fine.
> 
> ...


This is a lesson on short staff, but take a peek at the thrusting series at the end, you might find some use in it (start at 7:00).


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## Blindside (Jun 23, 2021)

Alan, this is for you.


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## Alan0354 (Jun 24, 2021)

Blindside said:


> Alan, this is for you.


Thanks

The close quarter poking and striking is exactly what I've been practicing in the last two weeks. I straightly using two hands like holding a katana to swing the cane. I can control a lot better with two hand in tighter situation. I don't even have to complete the figure 8 type of swing as I can stop the cane after I strike downward without circling back as I can stop the motion using two hands. This is much more compact for tight space.

Other than holding like a katana, this is exactly like what I've been practicing. I have to do another video after another week or so to smooth out the transition between katana strike to poking and punching holding the cane like in the video. I find I don't have do it one way like katana or poking/punching with the cane, I can go back and fore. Katana to close the distance, then switch. Then when I back off, back to katana swing.

Striking with two hands like katana hits a whole lot harder on the heavy bag than one hand. I can use a heavier cane also.

Thanks, I love the two videos.


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## Tony Dismukes (Jun 24, 2021)

Alan0354 said:


> Then reverse from lower and swing diagonally up ( like reverse the down cut). The reverse is HARD. The hand is in strange position and is hard to swing hard. Took me a while to get a little smoother.





Alan0354 said:


> I have problem with reverse strike, first from left slashing down to the right side, then reverse coming up from left to the right side. This is the same idea from Jobo to hold the stick with right hand with the stick pointing to the ground( just like you walk with it), then swing up from that position. I just cannot generate force. I tried this on the kicking bag, I can't even make a pop coming from lower right swinging up to the left!!! Any pointers for me?





Blindside said:


> Alan, this is for you.


Alan, check out Lamont's body mechanics on the backhand upward diagonal at around 2:01 in his video. That shows what I was trying to describe in my earlier posts.

Lamont (Blindside) is very good with stick work (certainly better than I am), so definitely pay attention to his instruction.


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## Alan0354 (Jun 24, 2021)

Tony Dismukes said:


> Alan, check out Lamont's body mechanics on the backhand upward diagonal at around 2:01 in his video. That shows what I was trying to describe in my earlier posts.
> 
> Lamont (Blindside) is very good with stick work (certainly better than I am), so definitely pay attention to his instruction.


Yes, I have been practicing using legs, hip and shoulder in swinging the cane since the video I first posted. In my first video, I don't really put my legs, hip and shoulder in like I do punching and that was not good, no striking power. I since practice with those in.

In your video, he use one hand grip and the second hand just push the wrist of the hand holding the stick. I do katana holding. I also club straighter down for confined space and try to stop the cane from going full circle like in the video because like he said, it only works if you have a lot of space. I am practicing for confined space.....like in the restaurants. Also just as important, it's easier to lose the cane if holding with one hand, you accidentally knock the table or chair when you swing, that can easily dislodge the cane from one hand holding. It's more secure to grip with two hands. Not to mention it hits a lot harder with two hands. You depend on momentum to generate power using only one hand, so you have to swing in a big arc. I don't have to swing a big arc to get the same power compare to using one hand, I don't have to swing in big arc, which is much better in confined space.

I practice a lot of the moves like in the video starting from 2:30, that is more useful in confined space.

I change a lot since the first video in post #1. I just want to practice more before I make a new video.

Thanks


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## Blindside (Jun 24, 2021)

Tony Dismukes said:


> Alan, check out Lamont's body mechanics on the backhand upward diagonal at around 2:01 in his video. That shows what I was trying to describe in my earlier posts.
> 
> Lamont (Blindside) is very good with stick work (certainly better than I am), so definitely pay attention to his instruction.



I think he is looking for a forehand rising shot suggestion and that is a tough one to generate power on with only a little travel, particularly if he is trying to do it two handed.  There was a reason I didn't show it on my video, it is simply hard to do.


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## Alan0354 (Jun 24, 2021)

Blindside said:


> I think he is looking for a forehand rising shot suggestion and that is a tough one to generate power on with only a little travel, particularly if he is trying to do it two handed.  There was a reason I didn't show it on my video, it is simply hard to do.


I really not looking for a rising shot anymore. That is cane in pointing down and try to swing up. IT's hard to generate power. I tried on the bag trying to hit the bottom, I dropped my cane as it's in very odd position that I cannot even hold it secure. I since change to just pick up the cane with the right hand, left hand grab the middle of the cane and POKE. That is a lot more effective and fast. The more I practice poking, the more I like it. I keep switching between swinging and poking.

BTW, what bags are you using for hitting with cane? I am really worry about breaking my heavy bags hitting with the cane. You have a special type of bags you buy? I only dare to practice once a week on the bags, that's not enough. You can see my pictures I have to wrap the canes with rubber foam before hitting the bags, those foam do wear out, it's not exactly cheap either. Those are bicycle handle foam tubes, like $10 to buy two tubes. They only last like two weeks and start tearing. Then I have to wrap it over with electrical tapes, that wear out too!!!

Thanks


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## Blindside (Jun 24, 2021)

Alan0354 said:


> BTW, what bags are you using for hitting with cane? I am really worry about breaking my heavy bags hitting with the cane. You have a special type of bags you buy? I only dare to practice once a week on the bags, that's not enough. You can see my pictures I have to wrap the canes with rubber foam before hitting the bags, those foam do wear out, it's not exactly cheap either. Those are bicycle handle foam tubes, like $10 to buy two tubes. They only last like two weeks and start tearing. Then I have to wrap it over with electrical tapes, that wear out too!!!


I either hit the BOB or a tire pell, I won't use a punching bag.  Something that might work for you is something like this portable pell:


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## Alan0354 (Jun 24, 2021)

Blindside said:


> I either hit the BOB or a tire pell, I won't use a punching bag.  Something that might work for you is something like this portable pell:


When I look at this, I wish I have not given away the Slam Man and the one advertised by Chuck Norris long time ago. Those you put water in the base as weight. Never thought I have to learn stick fight for self defense. I might be able to get back the Chuck Norris one as I gave it to my stepson 10 years ago and he never use it. Too bad I don't have room in the garage as I already have two heavy bag hanging there. Ha ha, unlike most people, we do park both cars in the garage. There's just no more room for another thing. It's going to be loud hitting with the cane outside in the back yard.

Those Slam Man stuffs are useless for punching and kicking, I can tip it over by just a few punch.( I know about not pushing the punch, it's all about speed and penetration, but if you punch a few punches in a roll hard enough, it will tip over) unless I put sand in it. So I gave them away. Never thought I can use it.

My guess is striking with a stick doesn't generate the power of punching. Even when I hit the bag really hard, the bag barely swing and it doesn't penetrate into the bag at all. Unlike punching, I can penetrate the heavy bag over an inch easily. It's just a different power from punching and kicking. This might make the Slam Man type perfect for cane strikes.

What do you think?


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## Flying Crane (Jun 27, 2021)

Alan0354 said:


> Hi
> 
> I have been practicing, swinging hard and using legs, waist and shoulder to swing harder, using more the arm instead only the wrist. Everything is going fine.
> 
> ...


Something for you to think about:  in the Chinese “long fist” methods, big movement is used as a training method that helps you understand full body connection.  This is what can enable you to get tremendous power by engaging the full body in delivery of your techniques.  It harnesses a coordinated delivery from the feet, up the legs, into the torso and shoulders, and down the arms to the hands.  If you can do this, then a punch, for example, can be much much more powerful than if you are only relying on the strength of the arm and shoulder.

However, it is not meant to necessarily be used with that big movement.  The big movement is meant as a methodology to help you understand the biomechanics of that movement.  When you understand it and develop that particular skill, you can then get similar power with smaller movement, because you understand the full-body engagement and you can still do that even with smaller movement.

This can translate into use of the stick.  While the training may use the big movement, application can be done with much smaller movement.

This is a saying in Chinese martial arts: move big to become small.


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## Blindside (Jun 29, 2021)

This might be useful, watch their mechanics.


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## Alan0354 (Jun 29, 2021)

Blindside said:


> This might be useful, watch their mechanics.


I am practicing close to this using two hands. I am just doing it more simple, just 4 moves, *1)*chop down from right to left.  *2)*chopping down from left to right * 3)*swing at the leg from right to left.   *4)* swing at leg from left to right.

I am more concentrating on putting legs, hip waste and shoulder into it to hit harder. I use a narrower footwork, not as wide a step. I feel in self defense environment, I don't have the kind of space to move around. Also, I try to chop in a more compact way, not a full circle swing like in the video.....again, to avoid hitting things in the surrounding in real life situation like hitting tables and chairs in the restaurant.

I even practice some that I stop the cane right after I hit from high to low to totally avoid circling back. With two hands swinging like this, it is doable to stop at the bottom before hitting the ground and bring it up to strike again.

I watch some of the Irish stick fight that have moves that uses two hands to poke and to hit the opponent with both ends of the stick using two hands. I am just cycling between poking and swinging like katana back and fore. I feel in real life self defense, I should not limit to either swinging like in the video OR two hand poking etc.

I want to practice a few more days before I make another video for people to give me more input, mainly I want to smooth out the transition between katana swing and two hand poking.

Thanks so much, this has been very educational. I am still practice single hand with either right or left hand like twice a week to keep that going, but my effort really concentrates on both hands as it's faster and hit harder. also, swing with two hand enable me to use a stronger and 17.5oz cane instead of a 11oz rattan cane.


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