# eHarmony Off Topic Posts Split



## rdonovan1 (Aug 31, 2009)

jks9199 said:


> Because that's how you're going about it. Try looking for someone you simply would enjoy spending time with, whether they were male or female.
> 
> And being someone that people would want to spend time with.
> 
> ...


 
How do I get past some of the rudeness that I have seen some women display? I'm just curious because even with what I know about the whole dating, mating, and relating scene I still have not been able to really create that attraction and to really get women interested in me or at least not the one's that I really would like to be going out with.

The best thing that I have learned is to basically act like you are not really interested at all while at the same time doing everything that you can to make yourself more interesting.

When time and money permit I am constantly trying to improve my overall game so that I can catch the interest of that one special woman and keep her interest in me. It's not easy to do because as I have learned if you act too much like her friend then that is where you will stay as women tend to compartmentalize men in their minds and if you are not appearing to her that you are the alpha male, then she will basically only want to be friends with you and that is at best.

I've been thinking about it for a long time because of a failed relationship that I once had with a woman that I knew in high school. When I met her I was like most guys at the time thinking about things like how much fun I can have by doing things like hanging out with friends, partying, and of course the standard male thought of having as much sex with as many women as I could. 

I was not thinking about things like love, relationships or anything else like that until I met this girl. After I met her my line of thinking completely changed and ever since then I have been thinking that I made a lot of mistakes with her simply because I was not paying attention to the details and to the signals that she gave me.

I've been thinking about it because while I would like to be able to see her again and to maybe even find out as to what the heck I did wrong with the relationship I don't think that will ever happen and that the best thing that I can do is to just simply learn from not only that relationship, but from every interaction that I have ever had with a woman. 

I think that I've come to understand some of my mistakes, but there are still a lot that I know that I have made with women that I still have not really learned from and I am hoping to change that so that I am not making as many of the same mistakes with women in the future that I did in the past. 

I know that I blew one potential relationship with a girl because I got too excited and carried away with the whole idea of traveling the world meeting women and doing the import/export business. As a result I broke rapport with her and she ended the dialoge that I had with her.


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## Tez3 (Aug 31, 2009)

Oh my giddy aunt.
Mr Donovan, you have already been given excellent advice by jks, stop treating it as a game or a hunt he said and you know what he's right!

You have such a negative attitude about people and women in particular that unless you change your views about them you will never be happy let along find a partner. 
There's one rule in life that you should stick to and thats "treat everyone as you wish to be treated", yes thee will stil be disappointed with some people, thats their problem not yours but on the whole you will get more out of life from that simple rule than if you don't live by it. You don't have to spend your life trying to get one up on everybody.

If someones rude to you, forget it and move on. Forget trying to be interesting it will come across as being false, you will be interesting by just being yourself not someone you think you should be. You've listed a number of interests you already have, concentrate on them, someone who shares those interests and with whom you have a lot in common will come along and you will find you form a relationship without trying (afterwards you have to work at it though lol). 

Stop trying so hard, it's off putting. Don't think, do as Bruce Lee said, goodadvice actually, don't overthink and analyse things so much, get out enjoy the sunshine on your face and thank whatever being you believe in that you're alive ( or just thank your luck), Instead of moaning count all your blessings and tust me you have far more than you imagine, make a big list of them. 

I've been with my other half now for 34 four years, it's been up and down of course, no marriage is plain sailing but it's actually far easier than you are making it out to be. I met him when I was posted into the same RAF station and we went around in a group of friends first of all, then we got together. A lot of my friends met their partners the same way, in a group of people with the same interests then finding the one they wantd to go out with. One friend went to a folk club as she loved folk music and found her partner there, she wasn't looking, just went to enjoy the music with like minded people.

Look up local clubs which do the things you're interested in, look at the interest first as you aren't hunting for women! Get stuck into activities, volunteering,sports all these will help you come in contact with like minded people and perhaps, maybe there will be a partner for you, if not then you are still doing something that you enjoy.


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## rdonovan1 (Aug 31, 2009)

Tez3 said:


> Oh my giddy aunt.
> Mr Donovan, you have already been given excellent advice by jks, stop treating it as a game or a hunt he said and you know what he's right!
> 
> You have such a negative attitude about people and women in particular that unless you change your views about them you will never be happy let along find a partner.
> ...


 
Wow Tez,

I did not know that you had been with your SO for so long. I hope that it is a really good relationship that you have with you SO.

You have a number of good points here. I'm not actively looking at it as a game per se as I am more interested in creating better relationships. I am however looking at things from the legal and evolutionary as well as business standpoints and in that sense it is basically a game in that both men and women can and do have different strategies for acheiving the same results.

I once read a book by a woman called 'Marketing to women' and in that book she talked about some of the dating, mating, and relating strategies that men and women tend to have. Much of it basically goes back to primitive times and even though we are now living in the modern world many of those same strategies that we developed back then can and do still exist in each and everyone of us to this day and according to a book that I have relating to human nature it does tend to explain at least in large part as to why we tend to act the way we do and as to why we say a lot of the things that we do.

This also tends to go hand in hand with what both psychologists, media, and the businessworld know about us and I think that is a large reason why we are seeing advertisements that bascially appeal to our primitive selve's. 

An example of this kind of marketing was used by McDonal's recently and that I fell for. I don't know if it is being showen in your country at all, but here in the United States McDonld's is advertising their Black Angus cheeseburger and the way that they are advertising it basically tends to get your mouth watering so much that you are going to want to go out to McDonald's and buy one. This concept has been used by the business world for a long time and it is called subliminal advertising as basically what they are doing is appealing to your primitive and unconscious mind.

This is not something that is new or untried as this stuff was actually discoverd a long time ago by a Russian scientist named Ivan Pavlov. I don't know if you are very familiar with any of his experiments at all or that of some other prominent scientists like B.F. Skinner, but they proved that by tapping into the unconscious mind you can not only influence the behavior of another person, but you can also learn to change your own behavior because the unconscious mind cannot differentiate fact from fiction. It basically accepts whatever you put into it whether for good or for bad.

Because of the girl that I mentioned before and because of my mistakes I have made with other women I am learning or at least trying to, to be more romantic and attentive without coming across as either a jerk or as being needy. It's not easy to do because there is a lot for me to really understand about it all, but I believe that I can do it and that by the time that I am done with all the work that I am putting into myself I will be all that much better for it and that the woman who gets me will be very happy with her choice. To use a business phrase, she will be one very happy customer. 

I also think that this stuff is important to learn at least for guys in the United States due to the fact that the American public is very litigious and will glad sue you today over something that you did not even do just so that they can get a buck. One area that is turning into a big mess legally and that the legal system is having a field day with is the area of sexual harassment as it is not really a matter of as to whether you did something or not, but more as to whether you are perceived to have done something. 

This applies not only with the realm of sexual harassment, but also with stalking as well.

I ran into something like this a few years ago when a neighbor of my mother's that I knew and was supposed to have been friends with basically turned on me. One day shortly after I moved here I was cleaning some CD's in my mothers bathroom sink because they were very, very dirty and it needed to be done. His wife saw me doing that and said something to me about it and I thought that would be the end of that as it really was no big deal. I don't know what her problem was but for some reason she somehow perceived my cleaning CD's in my mother's bathroom sink as some sort of pick up line and as a result she went back to her husband and told him that I was trying to pick her up.

This however was completely untrue, but he believed it and as a result he tried to fight me one day as I was returning home from a very long shift at work and on company property.


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## Tez3 (Aug 31, 2009)

I have to sigh and say 'only in America'!

Strategies...if we as women have them they are quite basic,instinctive one common to most people, thats just to be as happy as possible and make the best of life, please don't believe what some woman has written to make money. 
MacDonalds ads here are focused on what they put into their food, they make them here without additives and focus on healthy food, they make a big thing about their burgers being 100% beef (which if they say they are have to be by law here), fresh raw vegtables and salads that sort of thing. the image here is of a company trying to be health concious and serving fresh organic food, it's still fast food but not bad though the lack of salt in everything makes things like the chicken a bit bland lol!

You are basically living a second hand life at the moment living through whats written in books and thesis by people wanting to make make money by spouting pyschobabble. Throw the books away and discover your instincts and personality, that's yours - don't make one up using books.


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## Chris Parker (Aug 31, 2009)

rdonovan1. Jeez, dude, I don't even know where to start with all of this. Your game ideas are way off, that's why there's no success. You have not taken any self-editing on board at all, and really don't know when to stop talking about something that is not appropriate for here. But if you want to know, you are sub-comming neediness and a fair degree of desperation, no fun, and no confidence. That sets off the defences, including b.shields and s.tests, and you don't know how to deal with them. Your interpretation of "acting uninterested" is off base as well, so forget it. Your priority needs to be just being the kind of guy people want to be around, men and women, so forget the tech, you're missing too much for it to work.

And McDonald's advertising worked on you? And you're upset about that? Get some willpower! But the concept behind the ads are not Pavlovian, so bringing Pavlov into it was a little off as well. That is about trained responces, the concept of the ads is the generation of an emotional responce in order to sell burgers. Now, if you were guided to buy a burger every time you heard the jingle, to avoid a punishment or to be rewarded, then that would be the work of Pavlov. The rest is just advertising, man, get over it. Your take on the unconscious is very limited, and in these cases a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing. 

As to your former friends wife, honestly I think you are only giving a small part of the story here. I cannot see anyway that washing CDs in a sink (in a sink? What on earth for? All you're going to do is ruin the discs!) could be interpreted as a pick-up technique, so what was said, and how did you answer, that'll probably be more enlightening here. I'm not convinced of either side right now.

But back to topic, Lone Rider, I wish you the best in your search. Just remember to keep your eyes open, and not expect anything more than some new people to meet and talk to, and allow things to go from there. There are things that can help, but that's not important for you right now. As with rdonovan1, just get into the swing of meeting new people, enjoy their company, see if you click, and take it as it comes. Oh, and avoid the whole dinner date thing. Go for coffee instead.


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## Ken Morgan (Aug 31, 2009)

I cant believe this discussion is still going on, and over here now.

A dating site, IMHO, drops you off weeks or months into a relationship and tells you to sink or swim. It works for some people and not for others, it depends on how committed you both are to giving it a go. I think our OP has the right attitude, give it a shot, and see what happens.

As for Rdonovan1, Dude come on, on this thread and another you have been given some great advice by some good people. Stop over analyzing everything and just get your *** out there. 

Men are stupid, women throw out all sorts of subtle hints, positive and negative, and we tend to not see any of them.

I knew my current partner for four years before we started as a couple; she was one of the guys in the group I hung out in. Our personal lives went in various directions and we each looked to the other for help and ended up together. Its not a game with strategies. Be well groomed, be funny, be courtesy, dont whine or complain, act like a man not a dweeb, throw in some romance and stir, before you know it youll have someone worthy of you. Yes there are some shallow women out there, but come on, outta 3.5 billion people in the world, there will be somebody out there for you. 

34 years TEZ??? Thats great! Wow you must be at least.nope, Im shutting up


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## rdonovan1 (Aug 31, 2009)

Ok. It's all crap. How then do I get my ex-girlfriend back. I know that she is married and living in Colorado and from what everyone is telling me that is the best that I can ever do.

Finding anyone else and learning from any of my mistakes is just a complete waste of time.


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## Chris Parker (Aug 31, 2009)

You don't. You either become someone she wants to come back to, or you don't.

The last line of yours worries me.


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## Tez3 (Aug 31, 2009)

Ken Morgan said:


> I cant believe this discussion is still going on, and over here now.
> 
> A dating site, IMHO, drops you off weeks or months into a relationship and tells you to sink or swim. It works for some people and not for others, it depends on how committed you both are to giving it a go. I think our OP has the right attitude, give it a shot, and see what happens.
> 
> ...


 
I got married when I was 8? 

There's a video of me over on the MMA section under the title first female MMA ref outside the States or something like that, I'm the female in the cage with two men, nice work if you can get it!

The trick to staying together that long is marry a serviceman who is away alot and then when he comes out work separate shifts lol, I'm sure in total we've actually only been together a couple of years lol! It works though, you don't run out of things to say, service life is not for everyone though you have to be independant if you are to survive it as a wife.


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## Ken Morgan (Aug 31, 2009)

rdonovan1 said:


> Ok. It's all crap. How then do I get my ex-girlfriend back. I know that she is married and living in Colorado and from what everyone is telling me that is the best that I can ever do.
> 
> Finding anyone else and learning from any of my mistakes is just a complete waste of time.


 

Shes moved on, so should you.

What, dont you think everyone here has gone through heartache??? Do you think youre the only one who lost someone special????

Again, one last time, there are 3.5 billion women in the world. There is another special person out there.


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## Ken Morgan (Aug 31, 2009)

What type of idiot friends do you have telling you **** like that? No wonder youre so down in the dumps. Maybe its time for new friends?


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## rdonovan1 (Sep 3, 2009)

Chris Parker said:


> rdonovan1. Jeez, dude, I don't even know where to start with all of this. Your game ideas are way off, that's why there's no success. You have not taken any self-editing on board at all, and really don't know when to stop talking about something that is not appropriate for here. But if you want to know, you are sub-comming neediness and a fair degree of desperation, no fun, and no confidence. That sets off the defences, including b.shields and s.tests, and you don't know how to deal with them. Your interpretation of "acting uninterested" is off base as well, so forget it. Your priority needs to be just being the kind of guy people want to be around, men and women, so forget the tech, you're missing too much for it to work.
> 
> And McDonald's advertising worked on you? And you're upset about that? Get some willpower! But the concept behind the ads are not Pavlovian, so bringing Pavlov into it was a little off as well. That is about trained responces, the concept of the ads is the generation of an emotional responce in order to sell burgers. Now, if you were guided to buy a burger every time you heard the jingle, to avoid a punishment or to be rewarded, then that would be the work of Pavlov. The rest is just advertising, man, get over it. Your take on the unconscious is very limited, and in these cases a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing.
> 
> ...


 
I think that you need to develop a much more positive outlook on life.


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## Chris Parker (Sep 3, 2009)

rdonovan1 said:


> I think that you need to develop a much more positive outlook on life.


 
I really don't know if I should laugh or scream at this...

Dude, my outlook is plenty positive, I really have no idea where in all my posts here and our private conversations you got the idea it isn't... you, on the other hand, need a real dose of reality. Haven't seen that much of it from you.

In fact, I think I choose laugh. And I hope that this has all been a bad joke from you. But I unfortunately doubt it.


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## blindsage (Sep 3, 2009)

rdonovan1 said:


> Finding anyone else and learning from any of my mistakes is just a complete waste of time.


No, no one is telling you this.  What they are saying is that you are learning the wrong the wrong things from your mistakes.  You act like everything that happens to you is just externally inflicted.  Some of it may be, but the vast majority of it is self imposed.  You need to work on maturity, communication skills (not seduction, communication), learning what actually goes into a healthy relationship (not just what you think it would be like), and serious counseling to deal with whatever issues in your past are causing you to project all your problems externally.  Until you take responsibility for your own emotional and mental well-being none of the things you are hoping to accomplish will have fruit.

And stop trying to date right now, you need to work on yourself.  Once you get yourself in a better place mentally and emotionally, your ability to date and your perspective on it will be much healthier and easier.


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## rdonovan1 (Sep 3, 2009)

blindsage said:


> No, no one is telling you this. What they are saying is that you are learning the wrong the wrong things from your mistakes. You act like everything that happens to you is just externally inflicted. Some of it may be, but the vast majority of it is self imposed. You need to work on maturity, communication skills (not seduction, communication), learning what actually goes into a healthy relationship (not just what you think it would be like), and serious counseling to deal with whatever issues in your past are causing you to project all your problems externally. Until you take responsibility for your own emotional and mental well-being none of the things you are hoping to accomplish will have fruit.
> 
> And stop trying to date right now, you need to work on yourself. Once you get yourself in a better place mentally and emotionally, your ability to date and your perspective on it will be much healthier and easier.


 
I've been working on that stuff for a long time and prior to Swift Transporation terminating me in 2007 for refusing to violate federal DOT laws I was actually making quite a lot of progress as well. When they terminated me because I refused to violate the hour of service laws that effected my overall financial picture and that is something that I am working on correcting.

I have however had a lot of setbacks and keeping up with the game by understanding both myself and other people is not stupid as I know that if I had been more aware in December of 2007, then two girls that were trying to prostitute themselve's would not have gotten one over on me as I would have seen it coming and I would have been able to deal with the issue better. I however was not thinking about the game at that time as my thoughts were just on doing what I needed to do to get a job and to get some money coming in.

While I can't prove it I am pretty sure that at least one of the girls that tried to prostitute themselve's to me in December 2007 is responsible for much of the damage to my car as I really did not know of anyone else that might have wanted to see any harm to come to me at all. 

The stuff that I am studying right now and am working on apply not only to the dating world, but also to the business world. In 2008 I applied for a couple of jobs that were sales/customer service jobs and I was interviewed by women. One of the jobs would have had me working in the call center of Victoria's Secret Direct taking phone calls. The interviewer wanted me to hypothetically sell her a car, but because my sales skills are an area that I need to work on I was not able to do that and as a result I did not get the job.

It's also important that I do understand when people are truly crazy and when they are not as that is a security issue and was demonstrated to me in 2007 by a girl that I met via MySpace whom I thought was normal at first, but who soon proved herself to be a complete nutcase and a potential stalker.


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## rdonovan1 (Sep 3, 2009)

I don't know if anyone can or will be able to understand this at all, but the reason that I am trying to keep up with the dating world while at the same time working on my career is because prior to me driving truck over the road I had spent a lot of time, money and energy focusing on computers and I think that might have contributed towards my divorce from my ex-wife.

My mother once told me that while you might be able to love a computer, the computer can never love you back and I believe that she is right about that and that along with other experiences that I have had with the opposite sex in which I was totally unprepared at the time is why I am focusing on updating and improving myself so that I do not come off looking, acting or sounding like I am a cold hearted person. 

People that look, act, or portray themselve's as cold hearted people are what psychology calls apathetic and that is not good because that is the exact same mentality that Adolf Hitler and his Nazi gang did during world war 2. It's also the same kind of behavior that lead Charles Manson to kill Sharon Tate in 1969 and that is something to be avoided at all costs.


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## blindsage (Sep 3, 2009)

There is no game.


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## rdonovan1 (Sep 3, 2009)

blindsage said:


> There is no game.


 
The game is human nature and it is very, very real. It applies not only to the dating scene, but also to a person's business and personal life and it is proven by things like psychology, the business world, and even by the martial arts. It is millions of years old and cannot be argued with at all. Trying to argue with it is a lot like trying to argue with the weather as both the weather and people can be very, very unpredictable at times. 

If human nature did not exist then where do comedians get much of their material from? Comedy according to one book that I read a long time ago is a combination of truth and pain and that is what tends to make comedians so damn funny. If you have never seen a comedian like George Carlin, George Lopez, Robin Williams, Chris Rock, or any of the others that are out there, then I would strongly suggest that you either go to a comedy club or that you get yourself some stuff from people like Jeff Foxworthy, Bill Engvall, Ron White, Larry the Cable Guy, or any of the others that are out there and listen to some of their stuff. When you are done listening to some of their stuff, then go out into the world and check to see as to just how much of it is really true and as to how much of it is false. More often than not you will find that what they are saying is true.

People who claim that people do not operate on instinct and emotion are very, very naive because if it weren't for things like your desire to acquire, to bond, to learn and to defend then you would not have what you have now nor would you even be alive.

Just earlier this morning I was watching a television program on the History Channel about how money is made and much of what they were talking about related to the human emotion called greed and according to them it is because of that greed that people have tried to become counterfeiter's and some of them have been very successfull at it. They also talked about how the governments of the world have made numerous changes to the way money is made so that it is extremely difficult to produce on your own.

In one section of the show they mentioned that Australia for example has done away with paper money and has now come up with a form of money that tends to look a lot like a credit card. They did not go into detail about how Australian money is made as their primary focus was on how the British Pound and the American Dollar were made. 

They also stated that counterfeiter's have done a lot to undermine the confidence of people in the Pound and the Dollar due to their activities. At one time in the 1800's things were so bad that the entire American economy was on the verge of collapse because counterfeiting was so rampant. 

They also stated that as late as 1974 there was one guy in England that was producing British Pound notes so perfect that it greatly alarmed the Bank of England. The only thing that it was missing was a metal strip in it. If the bills that he had been making had had the metal strip in it, then the bills most likely would have fooled even the Bank of England according to them. It was a very interesting show to watch to say the least.


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## jks9199 (Sep 4, 2009)

God almighty...

Get a freaking clue!

It's not always someone else's fault.  It's not always because they're out to get you or take advantage of you.

It really just might be YOU.  I've hinted this rather strongly... but there is exactly ONE factor common in all of your issues.

Stop treating dating and relationships as some sort of game, and simply be your freaking self!  Get out there and do things you enjoy with other people, and you just might discover that some of them are interesting people.


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## rdonovan1 (Sep 4, 2009)

jks9199 said:


> God almighty...
> 
> Get a freaking clue!
> 
> ...


 
Are you suggesting that we all run around afraid of our own shadows? 

Relationships of any sort are 50/50 as it take two to make or break something. Things just don't happen by chance, then happen because people want them to be the way they are.

If this were a perfect world and if I had my way there would be no such thing as stereotypes and men and women would be spending most of their time in bed playing with the old love gun, but things are not that way because society tends to put more social stigma on dating, mating, relating, and sex than they do violence and because of that many guys have become so afraid to go and walk up to any girl because they are afraid that she is going to bite their head off. 

What do people think she is a three headed hydra? I personally don't think that there is anything to fear from it as the worst thing that a girl can do to a guy in my book is to reject him. 

I don't know about you, but I personally don't think that rejection from a woman should mean that a guy has to stalk a girl and make her fear for her life. If she is not into you, then for christ sake move on to the next one, but don't let your guard down as there is nothing to say that there may not be some boyfriend or husband that is so jealous and possesive of her that he wants to come and rip your head off and crap down your neck and whether we like it or not there are a lot of guys like that out there.


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## Chris Parker (Sep 4, 2009)

rdonovan1, there is nothing that I can see in JKS's post that indicates suggesting anything of the kind (nor anything in any of my posts that suggests a less-than positive mental attitude, nor really anything in any pots that you have read similar ideas into at all. Ever). As he actually does say, look ot yourself. You are reading fantasies in other peoples posts, you are constantly complaining about people taking advantage of you and scamming you, seriously, you are the issue. No tact anymore, you are the issue.

In everything you have said you seem to have missed the point by being blinded by your very skewed vision, and have refused to take anything you have been offered freely on board. Your comments about Hitler and Nazi Germany being his "gang" is frankly so far out of touch that I can only believe that it is a very unfortunate choice of words and an attempt to make light of a serious situation. Oh, and might I suggest that you aren't the only person to have read the same texts, studied the same things, or heard of the same comedians. Some of this is just common life experience, you know, and suggesting that we look up the performances of Robin Williams is a little weird. Seriously, get a clue. You haven't got anywhere near one yet.


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## blindsage (Sep 4, 2009)

rdonovan1 said:


> The game is human nature and it is very, very real. It applies not only to the dating scene, but also to a person's business and personal life and it is proven by things like psychology, the business world, and even by the martial arts. It is millions of years old and cannot be argued with at all. Trying to argue with it is a lot like trying to argue with the weather as both the weather and people can be very, very unpredictable at times.
> 
> If human nature did not exist then where do comedians get much of their material from? Comedy according to one book that I read a long time ago is a combination of truth and pain and that is what tends to make comedians so damn funny. If you have never seen a comedian like George Carlin, George Lopez, Robin Williams, Chris Rock, or any of the others that are out there, then I would strongly suggest that you either go to a comedy club or that you get yourself some stuff from people like Jeff Foxworthy, Bill Engvall, Ron White, Larry the Cable Guy, or any of the others that are out there and listen to some of their stuff. When you are done listening to some of their stuff, then go out into the world and check to see as to just how much of it is really true and as to how much of it is false. More often than not you will find that what they are saying is true.
> 
> ...


Nope, sorry, there is no game.  I'm not really sure what the rest of the rambling in this post is suppose to be about, but it doesn't make your point.

There is no game.  You've learned the wrong thing from your experience and your readings.  Until you stop thinking in these terms none of your efforts towards growth and self-advancement will have any fruit.

And remember...

there is no game.


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## KELLYG (Sep 4, 2009)

*rdonovan1* 

After reading through this post is seems to me that you are trying way to hard.  A simple conversation about e harmony end up with Hitler, How money is made, and about "the game", how you got fired from a job etc.  Something so simple got complicated so quickly that it is unintelligible.  If this is "your game" it simply will not work.   Dude  just  chill.


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## Tez3 (Sep 4, 2009)

Pound notes went out of circulation here in 1984, we have pound coins now.
Mr Donovan, I'm not being rude here but have you ever had a thought you didn't share?

Ok I've thought about this a lot and decided to ask you publically as I think after all we've read and posted we probably deserve an honest answer so we can understand. Please don't be offended but has anyone ever diagnosed you with with anything like an autistic problem? is it likely that you may have something like Asbergers. I know thats a big thing to write and to think about but really I'm not trying to be offensive or intrusive but trust me your posts read very much as if you don't understand a lot about human interaction and you are trying so hard to understand. The people here are really trying to help you and are showing huge patience you won't find many places tbh. if we can continue to help because there's a problem we will but we need to understand what the problem is first. Take this is meaning well even if it sounds clumsy and it's by no means any sort of accusation, it's just so we can understand better so I apologise if it upsets you.


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## Xue Sheng (Sep 4, 2009)

rdonovan1 

Where to start

It is not a game and if you treat it as such remember you get what you play for.

As to fault and 50/50 I have learned there are 3 sides to every story, what person A believes happened from his or her POV what person B believes happened form his or her POV and somewhere in the middle is what actually happened. All one can do is take responsibility for their part, deal with it and move on.

As to getting back an ex anything...they are ex for a reason and you are best keeping them that way. As long as you pine for someone else you will find exactly what you are looking for, depression and self-pity.

I have been married and divorced. later engaged and broken up (I was engaged to a woman whose ex-husband made considerably more money than me and the guy she is now married to makes less than both of us so money is not everything to all people) and when I finally got absolutely fed up with the whole mess and decided that being single was what I was going to be and what I wanted to be I was introduced to a wonderful woman that is now my wife. You never know if and when you will meet somebody but if you spend your time whining about it you will put EVERYONE off in the first 15 seconds of any conversation that is assuming it gets that far.

As to weather and people being very, very unpredictable; yup, big deal, so what, stop worrying about it and get over it.

As to using comedians as life guides and philosophers; Don't, stop it, it is just plain silly. It makes as much sense as using an Oliver stone movie as a historical reference for a doctoral thesis

As to Australia doing away with paper money; if you go swimming off Australia one of the many species of man-eating shark that is there will not care and neither do I and I fail to see who this applies to your situation?

Personal questions and if you do not wish to answer then by all means don't; how long have you been divorced?



To the OP, 

I never used eHarmony but I was considering it just prior to me deciding I was better off single.


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## rdonovan1 (Sep 5, 2009)

Tez3 said:


> Pound notes went out of circulation here in 1984, we have pound coins now.
> Mr Donovan, I'm not being rude here but have you ever had a thought you didn't share?
> 
> Ok I've thought about this a lot and decided to ask you publically as I think after all we've read and posted we probably deserve an honest answer so we can understand. Please don't be offended but has anyone ever diagnosed you with with anything like an autistic problem? is it likely that you may have something like Asbergers. I know thats a big thing to write and to think about but really I'm not trying to be offensive or intrusive but trust me your posts read very much as if you don't understand a lot about human interaction and you are trying so hard to understand. The people here are really trying to help you and are showing huge patience you won't find many places tbh. if we can continue to help because there's a problem we will but we need to understand what the problem is first. Take this is meaning well even if it sounds clumsy and it's by no means any sort of accusation, it's just so we can understand better so I apologise if it upsets you.


 

I found nothing in your post offensive at all and to answer your question I don't have anything like autism or anything like that. My problem is that I just am not a very trusting person at all because I have been lied to and hurt so many times by so many people that it is very difficult for me to trust anyone anymore. 

I have trusted people both online and offline on multiple occasions, but instead of positive things happening all I got in return was crap and it was not just from men, but from women as well.

One example that I can give you is of a time when I was out in Ontario, California at a TA truckstop. I was sitting on what was called party row one night when I was approached by a girl who was what we in the trucking industry call a lot lizard. To other people she would be called either a hooker or a prostitute. What you choose to call it is up to you. 

Like most guys at the time and like most truck drivers I was of course feeling more than a little sexually frustrated at the time and I agreed to let her into my truck. The deal was and as it normally is in that kind of situation that the guy would give the girl money for sexual intercourse or something else of a sexual nature prior to them begining.

I being stupid at the time followed the SOP and gave this one girl the money thinking that I was going to get some in return. Once I gave her the money, she promptly told me that she needed to go take care of something and that she would be right back. Being the fool and the idiot that I was at the time I believed her and I let her go and take care of what she needed to take care of. She never came back at all.

Because of that and because of what I had been learning from people like Ross Jeffries, Mystery, and other's and because of a previous failed relationship that I had with a woman in 1987 I decided that I would do whatever it took to change myself so that I was not as gullable and so that I could be the type of man that I believe I should have been with the girl that I knew in 1987 and as a result I have just simply decided that I would change both myself and my life around for the positive so that I am being more of the man that women want and need in their lives, but don't get very often.

Because of that decision I have been doing everything that I could to not only attack and confront all of my fears and phobia's that might be holding me back from accomplishing my goal, but I have also tried very hard to learn from all of my past mistakes with women and while I don't have all of the answers I have at least learned quite a lot about both myself and the opposite sex.


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## rdonovan1 (Sep 5, 2009)

Chris Parker said:


> rdonovan1. Jeez, dude, I don't even know where to start with all of this. Your game ideas are way off, that's why there's no success. You have not taken any self-editing on board at all, and really don't know when to stop talking about something that is not appropriate for here. But if you want to know, you are sub-comming neediness and a fair degree of desperation, no fun, and no confidence. That sets off the defences, including b.shields and s.tests, and you don't know how to deal with them. Your interpretation of "acting uninterested" is off base as well, so forget it. Your priority needs to be just being the kind of guy people want to be around, men and women, so forget the tech, you're missing too much for it to work.
> 
> And McDonald's advertising worked on you? And you're upset about that? Get some willpower! But the concept behind the ads are not Pavlovian, so bringing Pavlov into it was a little off as well. That is about trained responces, the concept of the ads is the generation of an emotional responce in order to sell burgers. Now, if you were guided to buy a burger every time you heard the jingle, to avoid a punishment or to be rewarded, then that would be the work of Pavlov. The rest is just advertising, man, get over it. Your take on the unconscious is very limited, and in these cases a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing.
> 
> ...


 
I don't know what lead you to decide that you wanted to study about things like seduction, attraction, women, gender differences, the dating scene and other related topics, but for me it was all because I believed that I was such an ignorant and complete bonehead with women that it was causing me to lose the interest of women that I did meet. 

A lot of that was because I just did not know what the heck I was doing and I believe that is a big reason as to why I lost the girl that I knew in 1987.

I know that she loved me and I loved her with all of my heart, but because I was stupid and ignorant I did not tell her how I really felt about her at all nor did I really listen to anything that she had to say. 

Instead of listen and being attentive to her needs and wants while at the same time paying attention to myself I let my arrogance and ignorance take over and because of that I not only failed to communicate to her how I really felt about her, but I also was very insensitive to her needs and wants and I believe that it is because of that insensitivity towards her that she decided to end the relationship with me.

Like a lot of people out there I went off half cocked believing that I had all the answers and that I could not learn anything new and because of that attitude as well as my overall lack of knowledge about women I lost her.

I know that I can't go back in time and fix any of my mistakes, but what I can do is I can learn from that experience as well from my interactions with other women by trying to figure out what I did right and wrong so that I am not making the same mistakes again with women.

I am not going to say that I have all of the answers at all because I sure as heck don't, but over the years I have learned quite a lot about women and as to how they really think and act both from studying from many of the same sources that you have, but also from my own personal studies and observations.

Over the years however and due to what I have learned from people like Ross, Mystery, and others I have learned to pay very strict attention to the subleties in life and to keep my eye open for potential patterns that a girl might give me that she is interested in me.

Unlike guys, women in general are just not going to walk right up to you and ask you if you want to go to bed with them because of the stereotypes and gender roles that we tend to assign to both men and women. 

I have also learned that while both men and women tend to think about things like sex in equal amounts, men tend to think about it much more and more openly than women do and men in fact are even encouraged by our society to talk about their alleged sexual conquests.

Women on the other hand are discouraged by society to talk about such things or to even engage in sex before marriage because if they do then society can and will label that woman a slut and that is term that most women do not want to be associated with at all and that along with the fact that women know that if they were to have sexual relations with a man can result in them in being pregnant and that is why women tend to think more in terms about things like romance, whereas men for the most part really could care less about things like romance. 

I learned this not only from people like Ross and Major Mark, but from my own personal studies and from women that I have talked to in real life.

At one point I was told by one girl that I knew and that I had had sexual relations with that women can and do think about sex just as much as men do. I did not know that until this girl told me that.

I however did not come to this forum to talk about stuff like that at all. I came here to talk about things relating to the martial arts, security and self defense. Yes, part of it does relate to male/female relationships as I know for a fact that jealousy can and does play a big part in how relationships are either made or not made.

Sometimes that jealousy can be on the part of women and that is why you tend to see women getting into cat fights over men, but men do the same thing as well and that is why you oftentimes see men, espcially the big guys that look like Arnold Swarchenagger coming up to you and trying to fight you just because you might happen to look in the direction of some girl or just because you might even try to be friendly by talking with the girl and that is the where the martial arts comes in to play as well as the whole concept of security and self defense.

I also know that both men and women can and do lie to one another on a regular basis and that again is another self defense situation as a person needs to be actively thinking on their feet so that if a girl for example calls you a name, you can and you will be smart enough to come up with a good comeback that is both a backhanded compliment and humorous.

Whether we like it or not women tend to be better at verbal games than men are and as a result they are generally good at hurling insults and other related things at people and that is proven by things like psychology.

Men on the other hand really don't care. If for example you are a man and you insult another man or if you invade his personal space then you can expect him to get up pound on your face because guys are just naturally much more aggressive and violent than women are. 

This all goes back to our evolutionary days and it can and does tend to make a whole lot of sense when you really stop and think about it all.


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## rdonovan1 (Sep 5, 2009)

Xue Sheng said:


> rdonovan1
> 
> Where to start
> 
> ...


 
I've been married before myself to a woman that I probably should not have gotten married to, but for some reason did.

Both me and her agreed that we were not really physically attracted to one other and that we tended to make better friends than lovers.

Why we ended up getting married is something of mystery to me still, but I suspect that it was probably an issue of desperation on both of our parts, but at the moment I just can't prove that as of yet. There may be more to it than that as well, but that is my overall theory.


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## Chris Parker (Sep 5, 2009)

Okay rdonovan1, I'm going to try this one last time.

Stop talking about game and your studies there. I would actually advise you to stop studying it at all, as you have really missed everything there. Oh, and the approach I take is the study of masculinity. Much more far reaching than studying seduction... Your habit of talking about your sexual events (and non events) will only serve to alienate other members here. As I have said since my first post to you here, this is not the place. So stop.

You have also missed the basic concepts of NLP and everything else you have discussed, if you are looking for "patterns" that indicate a woman is interested, you have completely crossed your wires. A pattern is a conscious sequence of events (words, phrases, gestures) designed to generate a responce, and a person (woman, man, or indifferent), if giving you a pattern, is not showing interest. There are signs you can become aware of, most including things like is she talking to you, or walking away. No pattern here, just human nature. 

If you think there is any "proof" in psychology, you haven't understood it either. Psychology is refered to as a "soft" science, as it is more theory than anything else, and therefore not something that can offer proof. So using it to back up any claim because it is "proven" by psychology isn't really true. 

Now, while I am all for everyone doing all they can to improve themselves in each and every way they can, I would remind you that what you are studying is not what others are interested in, or needing in their lives. Game is probably the best example here, not all the guys here need, want, or are interested in that area at all. Many are happily married, or in great relationships, or simply don't find that there is a lack, so telling them all that they need to study this, or anything else, is going to come across as presumptive, arrogant, or downright offensive to many reading your posts. 

And true to my words, I support anyone who wants to improve themselves, but I am going to strongly suggest that you cut back severely on your readings and self-study. They have only added to your vocabulary, but not to your understanding, so they are actually doing more damage than good. Same with martial arts. Don't even try to learn from tapes/videos/DVDs without a teacher.

But I don't like leaving things without giving you an alternative, so this is my advise. Get a social circle. Get used to being around people you can relax around, and be more used to socially interacting with them. Forget analysing them, forget checking off body language triggers and key phrases, it's getting in the way, and that is what is leaving you open to being scammed. Like I've said since day one with you, your social calibration is off, and that needs to be addressed before you can move on to anything else.

Because this:

*"Over the years however and due to what I have learned from people like Ross, Mystery, and others I have learned to pay very strict attention to the subleties in life and to keep my eye open for potential patterns that a girl might give me that she is interested in me.

Unlike guys, women in general are just not going to walk right up to you and ask you if you want to go to bed with them because of the stereotypes and gender roles that we tend to assign to both men and women. 

I have also learned that while both men and women tend to think about things like sex in equal amounts, men tend to think about it much more and more openly than women do and men in fact are even encouraged by our society to talk about their alleged sexual conquests.

Women on the other hand are discouraged by society to talk about such things or to even engage in sex before marriage because if they do then society can and will label that woman a slut and that is term that most women do not want to be associated with at all and that along with the fact that women know that if they were to have sexual relations with a man can result in them in being pregnant and that is why women tend to think more in terms about things like romance, whereas men for the most part really could care less about things like romance. 

I learned this not only from people like Ross and Major Mark, but from my own personal studies and from women that I have talked to in real life.

At one point I was told by one girl that I knew and that I had had sexual relations with that women can and do think about sex just as much as men do. I did not know that until this girl told me that.

I however did not come to this forum to talk about stuff like that at all. I came here to talk about things relating to the martial arts, security and self defense. Yes, part of it does relate to male/female relationships as I know for a fact that jealousy can and does play a big part in how relationships are either made or not made.

Sometimes that jealousy can be on the part of women and that is why you tend to see women getting into cat fights over men, but men do the same thing as well and that is why you oftentimes see men, espcially the big guys that look like Arnold Swarchenagger coming up to you and trying to fight you just because you might happen to look in the direction of some girl or just because you might even try to be friendly by talking with the girl and that is the where the martial arts comes in to play as well as the whole concept of security and self defense.

I also know that both men and women can and do lie to one another on a regular basis and that again is another self defense situation as a person needs to be actively thinking on their feet so that if a girl for example calls you a name, you can and you will be smart enough to come up with a good comeback that is both a backhanded compliment and humorous."*

is completely off base, and should never have been brought here. Not part of the discussion. I won't go into how wrong some of this is here, but know that it is.


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## Ken Morgan (Sep 5, 2009)

RDonovan1,You have to be at least in your 40&#8217;s, you do MA, you have a job, and you have trouble trusting people because you&#8217;ve been screwed in the past. You sound like dozens of us here on this particular forum. What makes the rest of us different is that we can let go of the control the past had on us. We&#8217;ve all been screwed around, cheated to, lied to, but we&#8217;re not obsessed with keeping it in the forefront of our minds.

Example. That little witch who embarrassed you in High school? She&#8217;s a size 16 now, doing a mindless job somewhere wondering how *her* life got all screwed up. It was 25 years ago, forget her, you&#8217;re never going to see her again in your life. 

Forget the past, OK? Just toss it all out the window and start yourself from a clean slate. Don&#8217;t listen to your idiotic friends, don&#8217;t question every little look a woman gives you, and don&#8217;t be so bloody judgmental with everyone. 

You&#8217;re over analyzing the little bits and the big bits way, way too much. Stop it.

If you come across as damaged or needy or clingy, a woman will run the other way, very quickly. A man in a similar situation will do the same thing.

In addition to all the other advice given here and on other threads, you need to be confident when you talk to women, not cocky, not boorish, not a braggart but confident in whom you are. That is the real 1st secret. Act like you have a clue and that you are in control of your life and everything around you. 

2nd secret, make em laugh. Don&#8217;t belittle people, don&#8217;t mock others, but gently tease her, and most importantly laugh about yourself, laugh at a stupid situation you got yourself into. Don&#8217;t take life too seriously.

3rd secret, don&#8217;t go out looking for a relationship. Go out looking for a friend. Once the initial honeymoon stage is over, you&#8217;d better have something else in common. 

Lastly. Yes, manners are important, as is physical appearance, as is being attentive, as is being romantic, but do not go overboard on them and honestly at this stage, I won&#8217;t worry overly much about them.


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## rdonovan1 (Sep 5, 2009)

Chris Parker said:


> Okay rdonovan1, I'm going to try this one last time.
> 
> Stop talking about game and your studies there. I would actually advise you to stop studying it at all, as you have really missed everything there. Oh, and the approach I take is the study of masculinity. Much more far reaching than studying seduction... Your habit of talking about your sexual events (and non events) will only serve to alienate other members here. As I have said since my first post to you here, this is not the place. So stop.
> 
> ...


 
I am not approaching things on this forum from a seduction, attraction, or dating point of view. 

I am approaching things from a security and business point of view because right now that is where I am weak in. 

I am only stating what my experiences are and as to some of what I have studied. Everything that I started studying relating to seduction, attraction, and dating has lead me into studying business and things like sales and marketing. 

Because of some of the stuff that David D. talked about and because of the fact that I was an over the road truck driver for a long time I started studying ways in which to take some of the concepts that I had been learning from the seduction community and applying them to things like business, sales and marketing and that is what I am focusing on the most right now.

All of the online romance scams that I became a part of started because I wanted to practice what I had been learning from the seduction community, but in the process instead of meeting real and decent women online I have run into a lot of people that were either crazy or scammers.

My approach to things right now is on setting up basic security and in doing that will enhance things like how I feel about myself both in business context and in a personal sense.

Part of the personal issue is in my ability to defend and protect myself not only in business situations, but also in personal situations as well and not just from a physical standpoint, but also from a mental standpoint and it is not related to just women, but to men also as I have not only been accused by people for things that I haven't done at all, but I have also have had things stolen from me, my car vandalized, and I have even had one girl in my neighborhood steal my necklace from my neck because I would not take her somewhere in my car.

As far as I am concerned I am not the grocery store, the phone company, a taxi service, or even a cigarette shop. 

Just recently I ran into a situation in my neighborhood that kind of concerned me in which some guys from across the courtyard had asked me for a cigarette. I told them that I did not have any because I don't like giving out things to people and not getting anything in return.

One of the guys came up so close to me that I felt that my personal space was being invaded and as a result I really started to think that I was going to have to deliver a back kick to the guy.

Because of the vandalism and attempted thefts of my car I have kind of wished that there was some way of putting something like a Cobra or a rattlesnake in my car just to keep my car from being broken into.

I don't know about you, but I personally think that if a person were to see something like a Cobra in a car then they would definitely not want to even try to break into the car because I personally think that they would have a very difficult time explaining to both the doctors and to the cops as to how they got bitten.

It's not a bad idea, but there are problems with that idea. Two of the big problems that I see with them are the law and of course the problem of as to how you would prevent the Cobra or rattlesnake from bitting you when you decided that you needed to go somewhere. Of the two idea's I think that the Cobra would be the best deterent because of it's classical dance that it does with it's hood open.

I don't know about you, but I can just imagine the kind of conversation that might occur between a thief, the doctor and the police when asked as to how he got bitten. 

In my mind the conversation would be something along the lines of 'I got bit while trying to steal a car'. Ok, now maybe I am wrong, but I personally think that would be more than enough evidence for the cops to want to take the guy into custody once he is well enough to do so. Assuming that the snake did bite him and did not just happen to scare the living tar out of him. 

Because of everything that I have experienced and seen I have become a very, very skeptical person and as such I just don't believe everything that everyone says. At the same time however I try to look for the good in people and because of what I have studied relating to NLP I tend to believe that anything you put your mind to is possible.

Because of some of the people that I have run across in the past and because of my interest in the whole dating, mating and relating game I have also started to study things like psychology and the enneagram and according to psychologists all people are crazy and in severe need of medication.

I personally think that they are the ones that are crazy and that they are completely missing the big picture as they are not taking into account things like culture and personality at all into their equation. All that they are doing is looking for the negative and are not taking into account that some of people's behavior is and can be attributed to how they think and feel about themselve's and other's as well their environment.

Simple common sense says that if you take the average person and put them in some place where there is high crime then fear can and will take over and that can cause them to potentially fight. That is the fight or flight syndrome.

Those same emotions and instincts also effect and influence how people think and act in other situations as well and that is what I have been saying all along.

If for example you go to a comedy club with some friends that you know and trust or you are in an environment in which you feel you will not be adversely judged for being yourself then it is a lot easier for you to open up and to share things with friends and family like your thoughts, dreams, attitudes, and opinions about certain things and it is also generally a lot easier for you to be able to feel comfortable doing things like laughing and making jokes.

I've also learned that things like NLP can be used in business situations to help to overcome objections because people tend to think very negative and I have personally experienced that myself in various situations. 

One such situation was a job interview that I was in for a job in which I was being interviewed by a woman. This occured on more than one occasion. In one case I was asked to sell the woman a hypothetical car, yet the job did not have anything to do with selling cars. The job that I was at that time applying for was that of a customer service representative at Victoria's Secret Direct in their call center here in New Mexico. 

I did not get the job because I failed to ask her the right questions that would get her to picture the car in her mind and as to what was important to her in a car in terms of features and amenities. Had I been better with my questioning at the time then it is very possible that I could have talked her into wanting to by the hypothetical car and into wanting to hire me for the job.


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## rdonovan1 (Sep 5, 2009)

Ken Morgan said:


> RDonovan1,You have to be at least in your 40s, you do MA, you have a job, and you have trouble trusting people because youve been screwed in the past. You sound like dozens of us here on this particular forum. What makes the rest of us different is that we can let go of the control the past had on us. Weve all been screwed around, cheated to, lied to, but were not obsessed with keeping it in the forefront of our minds.
> 
> Example. That little witch who embarrassed you in High school? Shes a size 16 now, doing a mindless job somewhere wondering how *her* life got all screwed up. It was 25 years ago, forget her, youre never going to see her again in your life.
> 
> ...


 
The only thing that I am doing with that relationship is trying to learn from it so that I am not making the same mistakes again in the future. 

I am also trying to learn from my other interactions with both men and women so that I am not being taken or lied to at all by anyone as I really don'tlike that at all. 

I am trying to find ways of making friends, but that is not easy to do because people in my experience tend to be more judgemental than I am.

My sister is one of those people and because of some things that have happened in the past with my family and because of her arrogance and ignorance I along with people like my mother and my aunt are not very happy with her as she tends to think that her crap does not stink.

I don't know why but she tends to act like she is the Queen of England and that really bugs the hell out of me. I've tried to get her to come down off of her high horse, but at the moment she will not budge at all and right now I am very angry and disappointed in and at her because of her overall attitude.


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## Tez3 (Sep 5, 2009)

The Queen of England (actually its more than England but I'll let that ride for the sake of the post lol) is actually a very nice lady not in the least stuck up, she has been married for years to a rather difficult man, has seen her family go through the usual things the rest of us go through and still manages to be gracious,*private* and gets on with life, this probably why most of her subjects actually do love her, she would be a hugely good role model Mr. Donovan for anyone wanting to actually live a life instead of reading about it.


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## JadecloudAlchemist (Sep 5, 2009)

Hi rdonovan1

I understand where you are coming from I think everyone has been in the dumps before.

Two things really strike me concerning your outlook:

1. Over analyzing things

2. Holding on to the past

It sounds to me as if you are building a shell around yourself and act in an unnatural manner to avoid getting hurt again. Though it is understandable it seems counterproductive. You may need professional help in dealing with these issues and learning to accept people as they are without a preconceived notion that they will hurt you in some way. It is a shame to go thru life with the fear that everyone is untrustworthy or out to cause you some form of harm the ability to break free from this cycle may need the additional help of a trained professional. You may want to rethink what people are telling you they may have a point.


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## JadecloudAlchemist (Sep 5, 2009)

Sorry double post


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## rdonovan1 (Sep 5, 2009)

Tez3 said:


> The Queen of England (actually its more than England but I'll let that ride for the sake of the post lol) is actually a very nice lady not in the least stuck up, she has been married for years to a rather difficult man, has seen her family go through the usual things the rest of us go through and still manages to be gracious,*private* and gets on with life, this probably why most of her subjects actually do love her, she would be a hugely good role model Mr. Donovan for anyone wanting to actually live a life instead of reading about it.


 
It was just an analogy to describe some of the behavior patterns that my sister tends to display towards me and to others.

While I don't know the Queen of England personally I am really starting to think that maybe the Queen of England might be able to teach my sister a few things about charm and manners, but given the way that my sister tends to act I am seriously doubting it as my sister would probably try to tell the Queen of England how to think and act. 

That's just how she is and it really makes us angry and frustrated with her.


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## rdonovan1 (Sep 5, 2009)

JadecloudAlchemist said:


> Hi rdonovan1
> 
> I understand where you are coming from I think everyone has been in the dumps before.
> 
> ...


 
I understand what you are saying, but I am not trying to hold on to the past at all. When it comes to my past all that I am trying to do is to learn from it.

As far as therapy and other people are concerned no amount of therapy is going to stop someone from doing things like trying to steal your car or anything else like that nor is it going to change the behavior of people like my sister. 

It is not normal thinking to think that there are not people in this world with attitudes, stereotypes, and prejudices that are basically unhealthy. People who think that there are not negative people in this world are either people that are very naive or that have psychological problems of their own.

Of the two I would much rather deal with someone that is naive than with someone with psychological problems because the naive person is capable of recognizing and dealing with reality.

One example of reality comes from a story that I heard yesterday while at the gun firing range from one of the instructors about how they found a big rattlesnake in front of the port a potty.

Supposedly this incident happened last year according to them and supposedly this rattlesnake was blocking access to both of the port a potty units that were there. They however did not say as to how they got rid of the rattlesnake. My guess is that the police had to remove it, but that is just a guess. It's also possible that someone may have shot it with a gun as well considering the incident occured on a firearm firing range.


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## mook jong man (Sep 5, 2009)

I feel like I'm trapped in an episode of The Twilight Zone after reading all this.
Anyhow mate why don't you get yourself a really cute little dog , we got one recently and he's a mixture of Japanese Chin , Pomeranian and Papillon .

He's a beautiful little bloke and women of all ages can't resist him , when I'm out taking him for a walk they'll come up and say "Oh isn't he cute " and I'll reply with "Yeah and the dog's not to bad either".

I'm already married so I'm not looking to start anything with these women I'm just engaging in light hearted banter , basically just being my normal smart **** self.

What I'm getting at is that the little fella is a chick magnet and women don't seem to mind starting conversations with you , specially if there out walking there dog as well.

And believe me its all him , I'm no Brad Pitt , in fact I've got a head like a dropped pie.
If I was by myself they'd see me coming and cross over the other side of the road.

But what I have noticed is that there are ample opportunities for a single man to engage in social interaction with members of the fairer sex , particularly if you take your dog to obedience training at the local dog training club or even some of the parks where dog owners congegrate to let their dogs have a run around off the leash.

I'm not saying for sure you'll get a girlfriend out of it , but its got to be better than trawling stupid internet dating sites and filling your melon with psychobabble crap from books.
Get away from the computer mate , get out in the fresh air , feel the sun on your face and start talking to real people.


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## Xue Sheng (Sep 5, 2009)

rdonovan1

So basically your in a position that you put yourself in do to your current view of relationships and woman and you don't like it but you are unwilling change and have copious excuses and stories to combat anything anyone else says regardless if those excuses or stories apply.

OK then live with it and quit complaining. The only person that can change things is you and until you are will to change and except responsibility you are going to have to live with it.

I'm done, I wish you luck


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## JadecloudAlchemist (Sep 5, 2009)

rdonovan1 said:


> I understand what you are saying, but I am not trying to hold on to the past at all. When it comes to my past all that I am trying to do is to learn from it.
> 
> As far as therapy and other people are concerned no amount of therapy is going to stop someone from doing things like trying to steal your car or anything else like that nor is it going to change the behavior of people like my sister.
> 
> ...


 
To me you seem more fixated on the past then someone who is learning from it.  I understand your anger towards someone breaking into your car it happen to me recently...we all got stories. Yes there are people out there who are untrustworthy,manipulative and so on but that's life rolling with the punches is part of it. I don't know your situations only by what you type on this forum. To me you seem to be one fixated on the past and over analyzing things. You come off as someone who tries to fit a particular form or mold and not acting in a natural manner. This could be the wrong impression and others have said similar things so perhaps the majority have a point? Maybe you are going off on things in a wrong way but you think it is the right way and need a professional to direct you?

Maybe you need to reexamine things look into what everyone else is saying and try to see yourself thru their eyes.


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## Chris Parker (Sep 5, 2009)

You know, I've stared at this post for about 15 minutes, wondering if I should answer it. I'll throw caution to the wind, and take it point by point, and see if we can get something out of that. But before I do, I will just reiterate that you have bee given these answers time and time again, and still haven't taken a single point on board from myself or any other member here. I suggest you start or we may stop answering you. There is a limit to the amount of energy I expend, at least, and it is relative to the amount of influence it has. Here, it doesn't appear to have had much. But here goes:



rdonovan1 said:


> I am not approaching things on this forum from a seduction, attraction, or dating point of view.
> 
> Yet you constantly refer to the game, the teachers in that field, make constant references to "the dating, mating and seduction..." community/game etc, and give us stories to demonstrate this aspect. Wrong place. See two paragraphs down.
> 
> ...


 
Okay, that was rather involved. But it seems that this thread has been completely hijacked, and hopefully we can put an end to it now. rdonovan1, this is enough, really. I ask that you stick to the thread topics in future, as you have a way to go in your forum etiquette. So I actually recommend you don't answer this post, although I will welcome anything you wish to say via PM, as this thread has been off it's rails for too long now, and this is not the first time it has happened with you. 

Hopefully we can get better from here. Remember, everything I have said, as well as others, has been to help you. But you need to start to take it on board, or else I don't see much that you are really getting out of this.


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## Tez3 (Sep 5, 2009)

I want to know where this 'seduction community' is that Mr Donovan speaks of!!  perhaps he's been to Catterick!

OK to be crude here, I work on the largest garrison in the world (wikipedia says so!) and we get women travelling quite a long way just to shag soldiers! No, not for money, we don't have any prostitutes here as theres too many doing it for free rofl. If dating, seduction etc is a game I don't know what the hell you'd call whats going on here! women don't think anything of grabbing a guy and saying 'your place then'. We stopped a taxi one night full of army nurses and found a guy shoved in the boot (the thing you keep luggage in in cars lol) he was terrified, it sounds like a fantasy being kidnapped by women but quite scary when it happens.Said nurses now in Afghanistan btw.
A favourite thing for the Barclays bank staff on Monday mornings is to view the CCTV tapes in their foyer where the ATM is, it's full of couples 'at it' as they say.
Sometimes you can't walk round without falling over couples lol! there's drunk squaddies offering you a piece of pizza from the takeaway or some of their curry. One chap dropped his curry on the ground, scooped it up then carried on eating, probably a bit like army rations but it doesn't clog you up lol!
A favourite trick of all squaddies of every rank is the Zulu warrior, there's a song thats sung while the lad strips. My other half broke his nose once doing it on a table but he fell off trying to take a sock off.
When I go home in the morning at about half six after a night shift you can see all the squaddies on their 'walk of shame', they've gone home with a woman and had to walk back to their camps. Great fun!

There, I hope thats changed the subject for you guys! :angel:


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## mook jong man (Sep 5, 2009)

Tez3 said:


> I want to know where this 'seduction community' is that Mr Donovan speaks of!! perhaps he's been to Catterick!
> 
> OK to be crude here, I work on the largest garrison in the world (wikipedia says so!) and we get women travelling quite a long way just to shag soldiers! No, not for money, we don't have any prostitutes here as theres too many doing it for free rofl. If dating, seduction etc is a game I don't know what the hell you'd call whats going on here! women don't think anything of grabbing a guy and saying 'your place then'. We stopped a taxi one night full of army nurses and found a guy shoved in the boot (the thing you keep luggage in in cars lol) he was terrified, it sounds like a fantasy being kidnapped by women but quite scary when it happens.Said nurses now in Afghanistan btw.
> A favourite thing for the Barclays bank staff on Monday mornings is to view the CCTV tapes in their foyer where the ATM is, it's full of couples 'at it' as they say.
> ...


Ha , sounds like New Years Eve on Bondi Beach with all the British back packers running amok.


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## Chris Parker (Sep 5, 2009)

See now, I thought you'd have just mentioned King's Cross... always a colourful part of town when I visit Sydney...


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## Tez3 (Sep 5, 2009)

The thing is though these lads find life simple. Booze, women, fighting, motorbikes, football, mates, fast cars, good craic and it's damn good to be alive because next tour in Afghan they may not be. Moral of story, live life to the full, eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow we die.


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## Tez3 (Sep 5, 2009)

Mr Donovan, watch, *listen* and inwardly digest.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-H3rDzsvis&feature=related


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## Ken Morgan (Sep 5, 2009)




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## Joab (Sep 5, 2009)

I have to say I'm impressed with the time and energy some posters are spending trying to help rdonovan out. Rdonovan, you need to keep trying, its a bit of a numbers game. I've had lots of bad experiences with online matchmaking. The one that worked out and is in fact my wife of over four years was one I never thought would amount to anything but being an email penpal. This freed me in a way, I just wrote about my life, warts and all. I was making $30,000 a year as a security officer, needed to lose a lot of weight, and she was in the process of moving across the state of Washington. We emailed back and forth, had our first date at the Seattle Aquarium. During the summer she came back to the Puget Sound area on summer break from college and we spent a lot of time together including weeks camping. That's when our realationship got serious. The monday before Thanksgiving of that year I proposed, we got married the next summer and have been happily married ever since. There are good ones out there, you need to keep trying and be yourself-warts and all. I know you have problems, but if the woman loves you she will accept you. I would forget about the ex girlfriend, she's married, it's over.


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## rdonovan1 (Sep 5, 2009)

I wonder if anyone ever happened to think of asking the OP what he looks like and as to how much money he actually has as those are the two most important criteria that every guy needs and that every girl looks for.

Everything is all about looks and money. If you don't look like a movie star and make over a million dollars a year then you are basically screwed.

Some people say that personality is more important than anything, but based upon the posts here it is obvious that is not true because as long as you have the looks and the money then you can have a personality like a boulder and still attract women without any problem at all.


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## rdonovan1 (Sep 5, 2009)

Tez3 said:


> I got married when I was 8?
> 
> There's a video of me over on the MMA section under the title first female MMA ref outside the States or something like that, I'm the female in the cage with two men, nice work if you can get it!
> 
> The trick to staying together that long is marry a serviceman who is away alot and then when he comes out work separate shifts lol, I'm sure in total we've actually only been together a couple of years lol! It works though, you don't run out of things to say, service life is not for everyone though you have to be independant if you are to survive it as a wife.


 
How does anyone get married when they are 8. I don't know what it is like in your country, but in the United States the earliest that two people can get married is 16 and that is with parental consent. Outside of that it has to be at least age 18 for a couple to get married by law in the United States without parental consent.


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## rdonovan1 (Sep 5, 2009)

Ken Morgan said:


> Shes moved on, so should you.
> 
> What, dont you think everyone here has gone through heartache??? Do you think youre the only one who lost someone special????
> 
> Again, one last time, there are 3.5 billion women in the world. There is another special person out there.


 
The argument has been made here by everyone that I should be focusing on one and only one and should forget anything else beyond that.


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## Joab (Sep 5, 2009)

Rdonovan, did you read my post? I wasn't making that much money and I was overweight and she married me. She did think I was good looking, but it was more that we made each other better persons, had a lot of common interests, just really clicked very well overall, and most important of all we fell in love with each other, and are still in love with each other after four years. Click 5, scroll down to the bottom and read my post, not all women are only interested in looks and money.


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## Flea (Sep 6, 2009)

rdonovan1 said:


> Everything is all about looks and money. If you don't look like a movie star and make over a million dollars a year then you are basically screwed.



Rdonovan, you've come back to this sentiment repeatedly since joining MT regardless of all the responses and anecdotes to the contrary.  I think it's just that you _want_ to believe this for whatever reason.  Clearly this belief makes you unhappy.  Why cling to it when you've been shown so many alternatives?  I won't presume to answer this for you, but I think you could profit a lot by examining this ...


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## Chris Parker (Sep 6, 2009)

rodnovan1,

Dude, there is not one single piece of reality on this entire page from you. 

1) Looks and money can help, but are not in any way necessary. Asking the OP about this type of thing are not relevant. There is not a single post here who has said anything that even remotely suggests it, so I would say that that is you projecting again. Not what anyone else has said.

2) Uh, Tez was playing along with a joke started by Ken Morgan, as she has been happily married for 34 years (I'm assuming happily, right Tez?), Ken commented that her age must be at least...? So Tez suggested that she married when she was 8, to lower her age in jest. The fact that you are taking that seriously as an answer shows that you are unable to glean even the simplest details from the written word. I mean no offence here, but that at least ties in with everything else, and I would be echoing the question as to whether you have been diagnosed with any mental condition, as there appears to be a lack of comprehension in all of your studies and posts. It could be as simple as a form of dyslexia, or something more serious. But I ould heartily recommend you look into it. If it turns out you are suffering from any condition, you can start to get some assistance, and maybe we can start to help you seriously. At the moment it is not something we are able to do, not for lack of trying. Please get yourself checked out.

3) Actually, the opposite comment has been made. I mean, even in the post you quote it talks about 3.5 BILLION women in the world, almost all of which you have never been married to, so that is saying that there are plenty of other women out there, and to STOP focussing on the one ex. STOP focussing on the one, okay?

I don't want to be harsh, as it really seems that you are in need of help (psychologically, possibly chemically). I hope you get it, as this isn't helping you, us, the OP, or anyone.


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## Tez3 (Sep 6, 2009)

Spot on Chris, it was definitely a joke and it is worrying that anyone could take it seriously.
I would say I'm happily married, like most marriages it's had it's up and down but you get through them if you want to and we did. I wouldn't say my other half is handsome and he certaily did't have a lot of money when I met him, he was serving in the RAF Regiment at the time, spending a lot of time in Northern Ireland, when the children came along we never had any money! both of them are grown up now, we have some spare money so enjoy going on holidays etc.
I've been out with a few guys before I met him, none I can honestly say none had model good looks and no-one was rich, there usually was just a mutual attraction. Being married doesn't stop me either from finding some men attractive (doesn't mean you have to do anything about it but being happily married doesn't mean you have to stop finding people attractive)) but again it's never been because they were good looking or rich, usually it's something in their personality that makes you go ..mm, he's nice, I like him. 
Likability is a huge factor in whether people find you attractive, it's well known that you find some more attractive is you like them than if you don't! What I like in people is usually also what I like in men, confidence, kindness, sense of humour, compassion, generosity (thats not to do with money) and a sense of fun, oh and fighting ability ( not kidding nearly all the people I know fight lol) 

Oh and I had to laugh because over here 'getting screwed' is another way of saying getting laid so Mr Donovan's post came out here meaning the opposite of what he thought! 

_ "If you don't look like a movie star and make over a million dollars a year then you are basically screwed."_


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## Ken Morgan (Sep 6, 2009)

rdonovan1 said:


> The argument has been made here by everyone that I should be focusing on one and only one and should forget anything else beyond that.


 
Focusing on one woman? Who said that? Where? No one said that. What weve said is, become friends with women, and one of them will become the right one. You havent even got the friends part done yet. Dont even think about a relationship until you make some female friends.


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## Ken Morgan (Sep 6, 2009)

When a women tells you how long shes been married, you always throw out the old, so you were married at.8 routine. TEZ, being TEZ felt the need to do it herself!!

Also if a woman complains about herself getting fat, just tell her, good clothes shrink as they age, they love that routine too!!

See humour, not taking the world seriously and you make them laugh. Easy!


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## Tez3 (Sep 6, 2009)

Ken Morgan said:


> When a women tells you how long she&#8217;s been married, you always throw out the old, so &#8220;you were married at&#8230;.8&#8221; routine. TEZ, being TEZ felt the need to do it herself!!
> 
> Also if a woman complains about herself getting &#8220;fat&#8221;, just tell her, &#8220;good clothes shrink as they age,&#8221; they love that routine too!!
> 
> See humour, not taking the world seriously and you make them laugh. Easy!


 
LOL, give and take thats all it needs, you give, I take!
Ooops better explain THAT'S A JOKE too!
If you can't have a laugh, lifes not worth living really.
You should always look on the bright side of life!

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]_words and music by Eric Idle_[/FONT] 
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Some things in life are bad[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]They can really make you mad[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Other things just make you swear and curse.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]When you're chewing on life's gristle[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Don't grumble, give a whistle[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]And this'll help things turn out for the best...[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]And...always look on the bright side of life... [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Always look on the light side of life... [/FONT]​[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]If life seems jolly rotten[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]There's something you've forgotten[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]And that's to laugh and smile and dance and sing.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]When you're feeling in the dumps[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Don't be silly chumps[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Just purse your lips and whistle - that's the thing.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]And...always look on the bright side of life... [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Always look on the light side of life... [/FONT]​[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]For life is quite absurd[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]And death's the final word[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]You must always face the curtain with a bow.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Forget about your sin - give the audience a grin[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Enjoy it - it's your last chance anyhow.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]So always look on the bright side of death [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Just before you draw your terminal breath [/FONT]​[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Life's a piece of ****[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]When you look at it[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Life's a laugh and death's a joke, it's true.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]You'll see it's all a show[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Keep 'em laughing as you go[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Just remember that the last laugh is on you.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]And always look on the bright side of life...[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Always look on the right side of life... [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif](Come on guys, cheer up!)[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Always look on the bright side of life...[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Always look on the bright side of life...[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif](Worse things happen at sea, you know.)[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Always look on the bright side of life...[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif](I mean - what have you got to lose?)[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif](You know, you come from nothing - you're going back to nothing.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]What have you lost? Nothing!)[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Always look on the right side of life...[/FONT]


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## Chris Parker (Sep 6, 2009)

Ken Morgan said:


> When a women tells you how long shes been married, you always throw out the old, so you were married at.8 routine. TEZ, being TEZ felt the need to do it herself!!
> 
> Also if a woman complains about herself getting fat, just tell her, good clothes shrink as they age, they love that routine too!!
> 
> See humour, not taking the world seriously and you make them laugh. Easy!


 
Brilliant, Ken. I'm stealing this, by the way...


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## Ken Morgan (Sep 6, 2009)

Tez3 said:


> LOL, give and take thats all it needs, you give, I take!
> Ooops better explain THAT'S A JOKE too!
> If you can't have a laugh, lifes not worth living really.
> You should always look on the bright side of life!
> ...


 
Ahh you beat me too it!! As I was reading ur post I was thinking of that scene, then i noticed you already listed the lyrics and link. Classic MP, the best of the movies IMO.


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## jks9199 (Sep 6, 2009)

*My mistress' eyes are nothing like the sun (Sonnet 130)*

by William Shakespeare ​
My mistress' eyes are nothing like the sun;
Coral is far more red than her lips' red;
If snow be white, why then her breasts are dun;
If hairs be wires, black wires grow on her head.
I have seen roses damasked, red and white,
But no such roses see I in her cheeks;
And in some perfumes is there more delight
Than in the breath that from my mistress reeks.
I love to hear her speak, yet well I know
That music hath a far more pleasing sound;
I grant I never saw a goddess go;
My mistress when she walks treads on the ground.
     And yet, by heaven, I think my love as rare
As any she belied with false compare.


(It does work both ways...  And, I think you're missing the point.  When I tell you that you need to look in the mirror -- it's not to assess your looks.  And when I tell you that there's ONE area you should focus on... it ain't finding your "one true love.")


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## Ken Morgan (Sep 6, 2009)

Tez3 said:


> [FONT=Arial, Helvetica]_words and music by Eric Idle_[/FONT]
> [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Some things in life are bad[/FONT]
> [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]They can really make you mad[/FONT]
> [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Other things just make you swear and curse.[/FONT]
> ...


 
Thanks TEZ, its been hours since this post and the bloody song is still going through my head!!! Maybe some Scotch will help....


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## Tez3 (Sep 6, 2009)

Ken Morgan said:


> Thanks TEZ, its been hours since this post and the bloody song is still going through my head!!! Maybe some Scotch will help....


 

Better make it a double after you hear this one rofl.
we sing it at work when going off shift to annoy the oncoming shift ALL DAY !!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKzzH50gn0A&feature=related

Glenfiddich or Glenmorangie?


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## Ken Morgan (Sep 6, 2009)

LOL. Youre mean. Yeah, thats annoying.kinda like this one. 



 
I have Glenmorangie, Glenlivit, Glenfiddich and Glenrothes here right now. Im kind of partial to the Glenrothes. The advantage of being half Scottish, I get to visit, sleep at relatives houses and therefore have more money to buy Scotch! Funny thing is Scotch in Scotland and in Canada is the same price!! Though pop over to the states and its half the price!! Ah you have to love sin taxes.


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## Carol (Sep 6, 2009)

Ken Morgan said:


> LOL. Youre mean. Yeah, thats annoying.kinda like this one.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hehehe.  OK, if I ever visit Canada, I'll bring a few bottles of some good single malts


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## Tez3 (Sep 6, 2009)

Ken Morgan said:


> LOL. You&#8217;re mean. Yeah, that&#8217;s annoying&#8230;.kinda like this one.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
My dad brought us up on Scotch lol, if we had colic or when we were teething it was a drop of Scotch! Once when I was about 12 we were on a ferry to the Channel Islands and I felt sea sick and yep, it was a drop of Scotch again. 
When my children were babies they had colic so I drank the Scotch myself then fed them rofl.
Ah a pleasant discussion....I just know we'll get interrupted though! Perhaps we could carry on discussing Scotch or even return to the OP lol, either way we need to get it off the railway lines this thread is stuck in at the moment of being a stream of conciousness for one poster only.


Ken, slainte mhath!!


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## rdonovan1 (Sep 6, 2009)

Chris Parker said:


> rodnovan1,
> 
> Dude, there is not one single piece of reality on this entire page from you.
> 
> ...


 
Plenty of people here have made the argument that one should focus on just one person and that nothing else is possible. 

If you've really studied NLP then you would be able to make the connection. All you have to do is just listen to the way people talk.

My argument has been otherwise, but since I am not a psychologist and since everyone believes only in what psychologists say, then people have no choice to believe in what Dr. Warren Farrell said in his book 'Why Men are the way they are'.

While I think that his book is interesting and that the parts about how culture tends to influence us, I know that is only a small part of it.

That was proven by Ross, Milton Erickson, and Richard Bandler on more than one occasion and it has been proven by the business world for a long time as well.

Unlike everyone else I am not looking at the surface. I am looking at what is beyond that.

Ask yourself what you think might happen if you meet someone you are romantically interested in and you decide to get married. 20 or thirty years pass by and the looks and the money have faded. What reason or motivation do you or your spouse have to stay with one another and to keep the relationship alive and well? 

Now that the looks and the money have faded, should they by your standards continue to stay with you or do you have something more that you can offer?

I'm just curious because unlike a lot of other people I have been looking at things from the personality side and as to what it really takes to make a relationship grow and to be not only mutually beneficial to one another, but also emotionally and psychologically healthy.

Stop and ask yourself as to what you think would be most important to you in a partner and as to what would be least important. Also ask yourself as to what areas you think were negotiable and that you would be willing to work on with that partner.

I don't know about anyone else here, but one of the most important things to me would be honesty. If I could not trust the person that I am with, then what point is there to be with that person.


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## Tez3 (Sep 7, 2009)

rdonovan1 said:


> Plenty of people here have made the argument that one should focus on just one person and that nothing else is possible.
> 
> If you've really studied NLP then you would be able to make the connection. All you have to do is just listen to the way people talk.
> 
> ...


 
Personally I want a man hung like a donkey.


Now if that isn't a conversation stopper I don't know what is and I give up even trying.


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## Chris Parker (Sep 7, 2009)

Fine.



rdonovan1 said:


> Plenty of people here have made the argument that one should focus on just one person and that nothing else is possible.
> 
> Point them out. They have indicated that you should not be looking at multiple women, rather look to establishing a single, monogamous, relationship, but that is not the same as what you are saying here.
> 
> ...


----------



## rdonovan1 (Sep 7, 2009)

Having financial problems does not mean that a person is crazy nor does it mean that they don't know anything. All it means is that they are currently experiencing financial difficulties.

I commented on this thread because I have used eHarmony in the past and all that I was doing was sharing my personal experiences. 

Yes, I have had a lot of negative experiences in my life both online and offline and even to this day I still run across people whom I do not feel are being honest with me and as a result I am extremely cautious about who I trust and who I don't trust. 

As far as I am concerned a person needs to prove themselve's to me and not the other way around. Until a person proves to me that they are honest and trustworthy I am not and will not trust them for all of the tea in China.

If they can successfully prove to me that they are normal and that they are honest, then there is a good chance that I will start to trust them. Once a person screws me over though or otherwise gives me some reason to not trust them, then I will cannot and will not trust them at all and will basically scrutinize every move they make and because of the things that I have studied and experienced it is very unlikely that I will ever trust someone again that I once trusted and that is assuming that they can ever regain my trust again.

Unlike a lot of other people out there I am very committed to my morals and values that I learned from my grandparents and from the martial arts as I was growing up and that is something that I will not give up on at all.

If someone else wants to be stupid, naive, or dishonest then that is their problem and not mine.

Everything that I was referring to talks about the importance of being smart enough to not only believe in yourself and in what you are doing, but to also be able to find out what you don't know and to think outside of the box and that is something that is important not only in relationships, but in every other area of a persons life whether it be personal or professional. 

Never assume anything, because if you do then you are only making yourself out to be stupid, naive, or crazy and that is why I try not to assume anything at all. I admit that there is a lot that I don't know, but there is also a lot that I do know as well. What I do know I know because I took the time to find out what I was talking about.

I also don't really believe in stereotyping at all. In my book the only place that any kind of stereotype belongs is when it comes to comedy and humor and only when you are around people that you know, trust, and that understands your sense of humor and can relate to what you are joking about. 

I can't remember where I heard this at all, but one saying that I heard was to take your work serious and to take yourself lightly. Another saying that I heard was 'Think globally, Act Locally'. 

The reason that I brought up people like Jeff FoxWorthy and Bill Engvall is because they both have some very valuable advice to offer. Jeff says that single people are entertainment to married people and I personally think that the is right about that because single people can basically do things that married people can't do.

Bill Engvall also has a good point to make as well and that is to not be stupid or naive because if you do then you will be a candidate for his here's your sign award. His point is that if you are so stupid or naive that you are likely to put on a shark suit and you get bit by a shark because you don't believe that they can hurt you then you deserve to have that sign saying that you are stupid. 

I tend to look at it from an even bigger perspective because I unlike a lot of other people out there tend to see a lot of stupid stuff out there by a lot of people and it is really starting to make me wonder as to how stupid people have to be before they figure out that something like a shark or a rattlesnake can hurt you.


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## Chris Parker (Sep 7, 2009)

Dude, I've known plenty of rich, crazy people, you're reading your fantasies into posts again. As to your posts here, you started with your experience and opinion of eharmony, that was cool, but then you've gone completely off topic over and over again.

Trust is not a matter of proof, it is a matter of faith. And it seems you have no faith in anyone being worthy of trust, so that is your issue, not anyone elses.

What is this about "unlike a lot of other people out there", how on earth do you know they're (or our) values or how true to them we stay? This self-agrandising is just sad. You don't know, you are just putting yourself above others to justify your narrow views and inability to understand. None of this is cool. Again, this is all in your head, so it is your problem, not anyone elses.

Oh, jeez, man. No. It is not about being "smart" enough, but there is no point going through what it is, as you won't take it in. Oh, and that isn't assumption, it is based on every interaction in which I have seen you or been involved in with you. And you may have found a lot of information, but that doesn't mean you understand it, or know it in the true sense. Cause you don't.

I don't even know what to say about the last three paragraphs... Who mentioned stereotyping? Comedians again? What are you going on about? Do you have a filter at all? Seriously, get yourself checked out, you are showing multiple signs of a mental imbalance, and it would be best if you got some help. To paraphrase, how (I don't want to use the word stupid here, as I'm not convinced it truly applies, so...) sheltered in your own head do you need to be before you figure out that this is going nowhere?


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## rdonovan1 (Sep 7, 2009)

Chris Parker said:


> Dude, I've known plenty of rich, crazy people, you're reading your fantasies into posts again. As to your posts here, you started with your experience and opinion of eharmony, that was cool, but then you've gone completely off topic over and over again.
> 
> Trust is not a matter of proof, it is a matter of faith. And it seems you have no faith in anyone being worthy of trust, so that is your issue, not anyone elses.
> 
> ...


 
Why do you have such a problem understanding and accepting that I know and have experienced things that you haven't?

By the same token you have also studied and experienced things that I haven't. I have never once attacked you because of that, so why in the heck would you choose to attack me because I know and have experienced things that that are different from what you have studied and experienced. 

Part of creating rapport with someone is understanding what another persons similarities and differences are and in being able to adjust yourself accordingly so that you are in rapport. This applies not only to romantic relationships, but to everything else that you do in life. 

If you haven't figured that out as of yet, then perhaps you need to go back and really study NLP in greater depth. 

Unlike a lot of people here I have never attacked anyone for any reason, and as such I deserve to not be attacked at all either. 

I'm not judging you, so you shouldn't be judging me. It's that simple and it does not exactly take a rocket scientist to figure that out.

If you lived in a bad neighborhood and had a lot of negative things happen to you both online and offline then you too would be very skeptical and cautious of a lot of people out there.

Maybe you haven't experienced it, but I have and I constantly see it all the time. I don't know about you, but some of the things that I have seen that are pretty stupid (and this is not even a complete list) are people driving at night without their lights on, people having sex while doing 65 MPH, people mooning other people while out on the freeway, and so forth. The amount of stuff that I have seen and experienced is staggering and I often don't think about it because I personally don't believe that is stuff that I should be actively thinking about. 

The things that I am actively thinking about are things like my personal and financial security, finding love and romance, and of course doing things that most people would consider to be fun like learning how to play the guitar, going horseback riding, spending time with friends and family and of course spending time outdoors in the wilderness doing things like kayaking, canoeing, hiking, camping, and other related activites that one might do outdoors and that is just for starters.


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## elder999 (Sep 7, 2009)

Tez3 said:


> Personally I want a man hung like a donkey..


 
Would a Shetland pony do?? :lol:


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## Chris Parker (Sep 7, 2009)

Not attacking you... that would be a lot more severe than the positively gentle I have been so far.

What I am saying is that you are not exhibitting any evidence of anything you are posting about in terms of your studies. None. So that leads me to believe that you haven't got it at all. And who said I was trying to establish raport with you anymore? I did that to begin with, you were completely off base, so I tried to help, you didn't take anything on board. So now you should be looking at my posts to you as being more rapport breaking. 

But for the record, I have no problem with you having your own personal and individual experiences, I however am having problems with you thinking that having read some books, watched some DVDs, and thinking that you have an understanding of these subjects, as you continually demonstrate that you  have none. Again, that is not an attack, it is just a statement of my belief based on every post of yours I have read here and elsewhere, as well as private messages between us.

And I will once again ask that you refrain from attempting to "educate" me in regards to things such as NLP or my knowledge of such. Yours is so sadly lacking that I cannot even begin to start to help you.

I haven't judged you. I have simply responded and reacted to your posts, you on the other hand have taken posts out of context, accused people of giving you advice they haven't given, implied non-existant arguments, and basically whined for pages here and on other threads. No, you haven't attacked, but you have constantly acted as if others here have been attacking you. I'm not surprised you have gotten into situations where you have been scammed, you have vicitm written all over you. You are being a victim even here where you are not being attacked.


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## rdonovan1 (Sep 7, 2009)

elder999 said:


> Would a Shetland pony do?? :lol:


 
I can't say for sure, but if she is like most women then she is probably looking for a stallion.


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## rdonovan1 (Sep 7, 2009)

I don't know who said it first, but I remember seeing a card at a TA in Texas that said 'Save a horse, Ride a cowboy'.


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## elder999 (Sep 7, 2009)

rdonovan1 said:


> I can't say for sure, but if she is like most women then she is probably looking for a stallion.


 

Not a whinny-a definite "_neigh!_" :lol:

Most women would never be so cruel as to tell a man "it's too small," though they might think as much. They tend to work around such things, from what little I've come to understand of the female of the species..

...the other thing I more than understand, though, is that quite a few of them will say "It's too big!"

Though they're _usually_ wrong.


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## rdonovan1 (Sep 7, 2009)

Chris Parker said:


> Not attacking you... that would be a lot more severe than the positively gentle I have been so far.
> 
> What I am saying is that you are not exhibitting any evidence of anything you are posting about in terms of your studies. None. So that leads me to believe that you haven't got it at all. And who said I was trying to establish raport with you anymore? I did that to begin with, you were completely off base, so I tried to help, you didn't take anything on board. So now you should be looking at my posts to you as being more rapport breaking.
> 
> ...


 
You have no idea as to what I have really studied or experienced as you have not studied or experienced what I have studied and to say that you have is being presumptuous. 

You have no idea what it is like to drive a truck over the road nor have you any idea as some of what I have actually experienced in person out in the real world. 

I would suggest that you get a book called 'It's not what you say, but how you say it' as it applies to everyone of my posts and it goes to the same thing that Bandler and Erickson have been talking about for a long time. 

You're giving David D. way too much credit. He even states that he is not really good at it and in case you didn't know he was at one time a student of Ross's until they had a falling out over a girl. Ross doesn't like to talk about it either because he really doesn't like anyone that is not in his little circle. 

He's good, but he is not the best and that is why I believe in surrounding myself with the best while at the same time actually going out and practicing what I have studied. Reading about something or watching some dvd's does little good if you are not willing to go out and actually put into practice that in which you learned. 

Another concept that you should check out is the business principle called the Paretto Principle or 80/20 rule. 

My focus right now is not in really trying to find a girlfriend or a wife, but I am still thinking about it. It is more on finding full time stable good paying work and in getting myself out of my financial hole so that I can and will have more time to actually go out and practice that in which I have learned from people like Ross, Mystery and others in environments that are reasonably safe. That however cannot happen unless I pay strict attention to security. 

Studying things like NLP is great and I don't have a problem with it, but it is not going to stop someone from trying to do something like steal your car or beating you up or even worse. That is why I am focusing on trying to figure out as how I am going to come up with the money so that I can do things like getting my car repaired, getting a gun, and moving into a better neigborhood. 

Until that stuff is resolved nothing can or will happen at all for me that is positive.


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## rdonovan1 (Sep 7, 2009)

elder999 said:


> Not a whinny-a definite "_neigh!_" :lol:
> 
> Most women would never be so cruel as to tell a man "it's too small," though they might think as much. They tend to work around such things, from what little I've come to understand of the female of the species..
> 
> ...


 
I've heard some say that it's the size that matters most while others tend to say that it is more the motion of the ocean.

From what I have seen, they tend to be either divided on that or just plain outright lying about the latter. 

Tends to make a guy wonder a bit about it all.


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## elder999 (Sep 7, 2009)

rdonovan1 said:


> Tends to make a guy wonder a bit about it all.


 

And there you go.........

Dude-there are very few absolute truths. One of them is that _women have secrets._

Most of the time (I _think_) it really doesn't matter. If they get what they (think they?) want in that regard, they consider it a "bonus," because a lot of other things matter more. In any case, you shouldn't bother wondering: if it's "too small" she isn't going to tell you, because they're usually not that cruel (unless they're kicking you to the curb :lol: ) there's very little to be done about it, and a lot of other things matter way more-like that "motion of the ocean,"..or how well you kiss...whether you can make them laugh _with you_....or _what kind of person you are._

I wouldn't suggest that NLP is a complete waste of time, but you'd be better served at first by taking some classes in basic conversation-honestly. Paying attention to where they look when they're talking to discern whether they're telling the truth or not is fine and dandy, but you'd do better by _learning how to *listen*_.

As for "dating," I'm long out of that game, but hey-I always took them out to dinner. I like going out for dinner. We either had a good conversation and a good dinner,or we didn't, but either way-*I* got a good dinner! No auditioning, no strategy, just talk. If it's a total flop (like that one who talked the whole time-I spent the evening wondering how she got food into her mouth!) at least you've eaten well, you never have to see her again, and it's on to the next one.....


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## rdonovan1 (Sep 7, 2009)

Chris Parker said:


> Not attacking you... that would be a lot more severe than the positively gentle I have been so far.
> 
> What I am saying is that you are not exhibitting any evidence of anything you are posting about in terms of your studies. None. So that leads me to believe that you haven't got it at all. And who said I was trying to establish raport with you anymore? I did that to begin with, you were completely off base, so I tried to help, you didn't take anything on board. So now you should be looking at my posts to you as being more rapport breaking.
> 
> ...


 
NLP is not about who is superior to one another. It is about creating rapport and asking the right questions.

By my own admission I am not really all that great at asking the right questions and I think that tends to have a lot to do with why I was not hired by Victoria's Secrect Direct.

If I had been better at it all then I would have been able to capture and lead the imagination of the female interviewer when she asked me to sell her a hypothetical car. 

It's difficult for me to focus on stuff like that when people in my neighborhood continually attempt to attack either me or my car and the same goes for one of the Pastor's at the church that I have tried to attend. 

If he had been smart and if he had understood any of this stuff then he would have asked me questions about what lead me to believe what I was believing about the church, what the Senior Pastor had been talking about and other related topics and he would have had an open mind about it all as well. Unfortunately he did not do any of that at all and instead he attacked me and that is something that really bothers me as you would think that a person like him would be able to understand things that the Senior Pastor had been talking about in his sermons. 

Had I fully understood everything that Ross had been talking about as well as things that Bandler and Erickson were talking about and had been able to combine them with things like psychology and sales and marketing then it is also possible that I might have been able to get a girl that I knew in 2008 that was a next door neighbor and had I fully understood everything like I should then in theory I would have also been able to deflect a lot of the stuff that one girl that I met on MySpace was doing to me and if my finances were not such a concern of mine, then I probably would also have had more time to really get to the meaning of what at least one of the online scammers was doing. 

That however is no guarantee that I would have been successful in detering and stopping the scams from happening at all because whether we like it or not people can and often do lie about a great number of things and being able to accurately predict as to whether a person is telling you the truth or a lie can and often is a hit or miss situation. 

I have learned that not only from studying psychology, but also from asking a police officer about it as well. His response to me when I asked him as to what tactics and techniques they used to get to the truth was that no matter what you do or say all you can do is to just take your best guess and to hope that you are right. 

I don't know about you, but I for one am not going to doubt the word of a police officer as they are out there every day doing it and more often than not they are very, very experienced at it because in their line of work people can and often do deny things that they have either done or said.


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## rdonovan1 (Sep 7, 2009)

elder999 said:


> And there you go.........
> 
> Dude-there are very few absolute truths. One of them is that _women have secrets._
> 
> ...


 
Those are all really good points and that is what I was working on prior to a lot of things that started to happen to me both with the scams and within my neighborhood.

Because of some of the stuff that has happened in my neighborhood and because of this whole business with Paypal and all of these online scams I am really paying attention to security big time.

I have to admit that the last couple of days when I was out on the firing range kind of woke me up a little in regards to firearms as it has been quite a while since I have fired any kind of gun. It was also really fun as well.

Thankfully I passed the class and will be getting my guard card shortly. I however don't know if it is going to show the caliber of the weapon that I qualified with which was a .38 Special. 

Hopefully I will be able to find a good job soon that pays good so that I will be able to repair the damage to my car and to do things like get a gun as well as things like pepper spray and a baton and so that I can really start to work on resolving many of my computer problems that I been having with my hardware and software..

The sooner that I can get a lot of the things that are stressing me out, then the sooner that I can get back to some of the things that I really enjoy doing. Finding that work/life balance however is difficult to do in this economy as a lot of places just don't seem to be hiring. It's tough out there for anyone in the job market due to the economy.


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## Tez3 (Sep 7, 2009)




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## rdonovan1 (Sep 7, 2009)

Tez3 said:


>


 
That's cute. Are you being robbed by Billy the Kid or Jesse James? If you are then I think that you need to call the Lone Ranger and his sidekick Tonto to come and rescue you.


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## rdonovan1 (Sep 7, 2009)

elder999 said:


> And there you go.........
> 
> Dude-there are very few absolute truths. One of them is that _women have secrets._
> 
> ...


 
Be cautious about the one's that are just out to use you. There seems to be a lot of that going around and for some reason the better looking girls seem to be the worst at it as they tend to think that you are beneath them and that you really don't have any right to talk to them at all. 

Those types of girls are generally very insecure and needy, but they are also the one's that most guys tend to approach the most and that is why they tend to develop defense strategies as that is their way of screening out all of the losers and chumps and that is why things like personality and humor are so important. 

If you can accurately mimick their behavior and if you can do it in the right context, then more often than not you can get them to come down off of their high horse and actually be sociable with you. That's something that can and does take some practice to master, but it's also kind of fun to do as you can never really be sure as to what their reaction to you is going to be.


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## elder999 (Sep 7, 2009)

rdonovan1 said:


> Be cautious about the one's that are just out to use you. There seems to be a lot of that going around and for some reason the better looking girls seem to be the worst at it as they tend to think that you are beneath them and that you really don't have any right to talk to them at all.
> 
> Those types of girls are generally very insecure and needy, but they are also the one's that most guys tend to approach the most and that is why they tend to develop defense strategies as that is their way of screening out all of the losers and chumps and that is why things like personality and humor are so important.
> 
> If you can accurately mimick their behavior and if you can do it in the right context, then more often than not you can get them to come down off of their high horse and actually be sociable with you. That's something that can and does take some practice to master, but it's also kind of fun to do as you can never really be sure as to what their reaction to you is going to be.


 

Oh..._kay_.....

Here ya go:


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## Chris Parker (Sep 7, 2009)

Right.



rdonovan1 said:


> You have no idea as to what I have really studied or experienced as you have not studied or experienced what I have studied and to say that you have is being presumptuous.
> 
> I've read your posts. I've actually studied all of this stuff. Next.
> 
> ...


 
Okay, this came up while I was replying...

[originally posted by rdonovan1 - blue is my responce]
*NLP is not about who is superior to one another. It is about creating rapport and asking the right questions.*

NLP is about understanding the construct of the mind, and how to use that to the greatest benefit of yourself and those around you. Rapport building is one small part of it. And I never said that NLP was about superiority, I said that you were coming off as believing yourself to be morally superior. And I stand by that, as you are continuing to do that right now.

*By my own admission I am not really all that great at asking the right questions and I think that tends to have a lot to do with why I was not hired by Victoria's Secrect Direct.*

Don't look to blame your not getting one job on something like that. It was a combination of things, including the other applicants being better. 

*If I had been better at it all then I would have been able to capture and lead the imagination of the female interviewer when she asked me to sell her a hypothetical car. *

Really? I would say that if your interview went better, if you were the best suited person for the job, then you would have gotten it. Stop looking to NLP to solve your problems, that's not what it's for.

*It's difficult for me to focus on stuff like that when people in my neighborhood continually attempt to attack either me or my car and the same goes for one of the Pastor's at the church that I have tried to attend. 
*
So everyone's attacking you? As has been stated by others, there is one common factor here.

*If he had been smart and if he had understood any of this stuff then he would have asked me questions about what lead me to believe what I was believing about the church, what the Senior Pastor had been talking about and other related topics and he would have had an open mind about it all as well. Unfortunately he did not do any of that at all and instead he attacked me and that is something that really bothers me as you would think that a person like him would be able to understand things that the Senior Pastor had been talking about in his sermons. *

Hmm, I would want to hear his side of things, I am not placing a lot of faith in your interpretation of facts here. And that is based again on your actions and communications here, not anything about your personality, so not an attack.

*Had I fully understood everything that Ross had been talking about as well as things that Bandler and Erickson were talking about and had been able to combine them with things like psychology and sales and marketing then it is also possible that I might have been able to get a girl that I knew in 2008 that was a next door neighbor and had I fully understood everything like I should then in theory I would have also been able to deflect a lot of the stuff that one girl that I met on MySpace was doing to me and if my finances were not such a concern of mine, then I probably would also have had more time to really get to the meaning of what at least one of the online scammers was doing. *

None of this is relevant to anything here. If you understood things fully? If you could combine them? You might have gotten a girl a year ago? What on earth is this in aid of?

I would say if you understood the first thing about what most of these guys are saying then you wouldn't be here in this conversation, and I wouldn't be needing to say this to you now.

*That however is no guarantee that I would have been successful in detering and stopping the scams from happening at all because whether we like it or not people can and often do lie about a great number of things and being able to accurately predict as to whether a person is telling you the truth or a lie can and often is a hit or miss situation. *

Yes, the world is out to get you, people lie, and you are the one true bastion in the world. Or you have no way to deal with the world, and are constantly looking for others to blame... I think we've covered this before.

*I have learned that not only from studying psychology, but also from asking a police officer about it as well. His response to me when I asked him as to what tactics and techniques they used to get to the truth was that no matter what you do or say all you can do is to just take your best guess and to hope that you are right. *

Yeah, but remember that the police officer is trained, and is in a situation where they have a very good reason to believe the person (suspect) may be lying to them. This is very different to the types of people you may encounter in your everyday life. The lies and deceptions you may encounter are also going to be quite different as well, with different intentions, methods, and causes. So while I agree with the advice, I feel that you are taking it out of context, and are approaching everyone with the mindset that they are going to screw you over (phrasing just for you, Tez), and that just ain't going to happen. Not every day.

*I don't know about you, but I for one am not going to doubt the word of a police officer as they are out there every day doing it and more often than not they are very, very experienced at it because in their line of work people can and often do deny things that they have either done or said.* 

Really? Depends on the police officer... But again, you are taking things out of context. If you are not a police officer, then their approach to a criminal is going to be different to your approach to someone you meet in the street, or at work.


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## Chris Parker (Sep 7, 2009)

You know what, after seeing what was posted while I was replying I am in agreement with Tez.

rdonovan1, you have constantly posted out of context, with little to no relevance at all to other posts, read attacks where there were none, read messages where none were to be found, and ignored every single piece of advice you were given with generosity and care.

There is no point to this at all. So finally, do not get a gun unless required by your security work. Even then, if you can avoid it, do so. 

But I am done trying to help you. But know that you have shown no comprehension of anything you have discussed, and that has not changed since your first post about ninjutsu. I wish you the best, but I feel that we cannot help you at all.


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## Tez3 (Sep 7, 2009)

Chris, you have my total admiration and respect, this is the equivilant of the beetle rolling the ball of the proverbial up hill lol!!

Mr Donovan I rarely need anyone to come and rescue me LOL, I either talk them to death or belt them whichever seems the most stress relieving to me at the time. I don't offiically condone violence but there comes a time when frankly you need to knock out people who are really really bothering and bullying you, sad reflection of society but sometimes that's all they understand.

Life is really simple you know.


Alfred D Souza ...

"For a long time it had seemed to me that life was about to begin.
But there was always some obstacle in the way, something to be gotten through first, some unfinished business, time still to be served, a debt to be paid. Then life would begin. At last it dawned on me that these obstacles were my life."

This perspective has helped me to see that there is no way to happiness. Happiness is the way.

So, treasure every moment that you have. And treasure it more because you shared it with someone special, special enough to spend your time ... and remember that time waits for no one ...

So stop waiting until you finish school ... until you go back to school ... until you lose ten pounds ... until you gain ten pounds ... until you have kids ... until your kids leave the house ... until you start work ... until you retire ... until you get married ... until you get divorced ... until Friday night ... until Sunday morning ... until you get a new car or home ... until your car or home is paid off ... until spring, until summer ... until fall ... until winter ... until you are off welfare ... until the first or fifteenth ... until your song comes on ... until you've had a drink ... until you've sobered up ... until you die ... until you are born again to decide that there is no better time than right now to be happy ...

Happiness is a journey ... not a destination!!"


I've been told on here by one or too I'm a drama queen, I'm not, I'm THE drama queen! And I'm going to throw a hissy fit right now because I really cannot stand much more wallowing in self indulgent self pitying bollocks. Such good advice has been offered and thrown back in the posters faces and enough is enough.

Take a good look at this face Mr. Donovan, this is the face of a friend of my daughters, he was an apprentice jockey, 18 years old and he died in the early hours of Saturday morning in an arson attack, Another friend of my daughter, a jockey too also died, she was 19, now take your books, your dvds, your experts and homilies, stick them somehwere and really look at this lad. He had everything to live for, he was a bright, friendly bubbly Irish lad who's whole life centred around horses and he died horribly in a fire and you have the nerve to shimf and winge? You think your life is lousy, you have alife Mr. Donovan now just get on with it, I have a daughter to console.

Jamie Kyne RIP








I'm not going to post up again on this thread, lifes too short and I've done everything I can to change subject, take it back to OP etc, thanks guys to those who've tried as well and if anyone wants to chat etc with UK service people (if necessary I will translate lol) heres a link.

http://www.forcespenpals.co.uk/?source=webgains&siteid=1098


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## rdonovan1 (Sep 7, 2009)

Chris Parker said:


> Right.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
I don't have a superiority complex at all. All that I am doing is talking out of experience. Talking to people like Ross, David D, Mystery or any of the others cannot and will not do you a bit of good unless you are actually out in the world applying the concepts with real women.

Whether people like it or not what they say and what really works with real women out in the real world are two different things and I unlike a lot of people have been attempting to put what I have learned to work out in the real world where anything can happen.

You need to realize and remember that these guys are just out to make a buck off of you and that the only way you are really going to learn is by applying it out in the real world on real women. Sitting at home trying to practice what you have learned on something like your computer makes you what Mystery calls a keyboard jockey.

I'm not saying that I understand everything at all because out in the real world people can and do react to things differently than they might react on the internet. Anyone that knows anything about the internet knows that anyone can be anything that they want to be on the internet. I know that because I have not only experienced it first hand, but also because I once knew a truck driver and his wife that just loved to go online and pretend that he was a girl and more often than not his wife would help him out. He personally thougt that it was funny as he knew that women tend to get more responses than men on dating websites and that many of these women tend to like to play games with these men because they know that they can.

The stuff that David D teaches is ok, but as Ross once pointed out you have to be careful that you don't become a joke machine. Ross is also right about women compartmentalizing things in their minds as that is stuff that Bandler and Erickson touched upon as well.

Bandler also went on to state that people tend to think negatively and that is why people like him and Ross tend to use negation as they know that the mind cannot process a negative. It's also why children often don't do what they are told to do. 

David D's Cocky Funny stuff is fine, but that will only get you so far. I know that because I and a friend of mine know that and so does my ex-wife. When I was married I used to used the cocky funny stuff on my ex-wife and while it usually got a laugh it never did anything to deepen the relationship at all and that is why Ross said that you need to be careful about that. He also stated that you need to use what people give you and that it is a lot like the martial arts. 

Dr. Paul said the same thing as well and I understand that because in many ways it is a lot like aikido as you are basically taking their energy and using it against them. Erickson and Bandler knew that as well.

Bandler and Grinder knew that so well that they used it on Erickson to get Erickson to meet with them and to let them observe him in action and Erickson himself said that what he and Bandler did was nothing more than sales and marketing. My mother brought that up to me a long time ago when I tried showing her what Ross was teaching.

Because of that and because of a few books that I have read relating to rapport I have been learning or at least trying to learn how to apply the concepts to the business world and that is why I would ideally like to be able to get into things like sales and marketing as I know that it is all nothing more than sales, marketing, influence and persuasion. 

I was working on that before all this scam stuff started and I still am as I know that NLP can and will help me in my attempts to find work and to come up with enough money to take care of things like fixing my car and getting out of the apartment complex that I currently live in. 

While I haven't had a chance to read all of the books that David D suggested I do understand what he is talking about when it comes to things like jealously as I have personally experienced it in person with one of the people that I knew when I first moved to Albuquerque. 

For some reason he thought that I wanted his wife and as a result he tried to fight me one day when I came back from my run. He is and was completely way off base because I really was not interested in his wife at all. Only in making some new friends.

I did however think about and wonder about some of what Ross and Mystery were talking about relating to the girl that I knew a long time ago. Because of what they were teaching and because of things that I have noticed with that relationship I have learned to pay attention to patterns just like a police officer would and during the course of my studies I discovered some patterns that tended to make me wonder as to what really happened with that relationship. That in turn has had me looking at not only myself, but the relationship as well as I have been trying to figure out what I did right and wrong with that relationship. 

I would explain it to you if I thought that you were actually willing to listen, but since you are not willing to listen there really is no point in me trying to explain anything at all and since that is the case then it is probably best for me to just do the same thing as everyone else and that is to assume and to blame as that seems to be what everyone else seems to understand and accept. I personally don't like it at all as I tend to believe that if one is going to really be honest then they need to learn how to be honest both with themselves and with others, but that is something that most people don't seem very willing to do. 

I'm not interested in being like Ross or Mystery at all. My interest is in just simply creating better relationships with women and in being the best that I can possibly be in life.


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## Chris Parker (Sep 7, 2009)

You know, I was done, so I'm not going to go through how bad this all is. 

BUT...

This is the wrong forum for all of this. It is completely off topic, and out of place. Stop. People here are not at all concerned with your take on women, and trying to educate me is a desperate reach at best. I am far more experienced at all of this, in every way you can think of. But that is not for here. So stop.


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## Tez3 (Sep 7, 2009)

:hb:


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## rdonovan1 (Sep 7, 2009)

Good. I guess that we can all agree that hate is the best thing in the world. 

People love to hate and argue and I guess that is all that matters in the world.


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## Tez3 (Sep 7, 2009)

http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?i...images?q=Leeds+Cage&gbv=2&hl=en&sa=G&ie=UTF-8
http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?i...images?q=Leeds+Cage&gbv=2&hl=en&sa=G&ie=UTF-8 
How I like my men, two of them, stripped the waist fighting with me in charge, yes that *is* me in there! the t shirt says "Warrior"!


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## Chris Parker (Sep 7, 2009)

You know, we have similar tastes... with one little difference...

 My t-shirt says "Lover", not fighter...

Oh, damn, yeah, not men either. Not that there's anything wrong with that... I don't judge you, Tez!


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## Tez3 (Sep 7, 2009)

Chris Parker said:


> You know, we have similar tastes... with one little difference...
> 
> My t-shirt says "Lover", not fighter...
> 
> Oh, damn, yeah, not men either. Not that there's anything wrong with that... I don't judge you, Tez!


 
It's okay you can call me Irene lol! I have a friend who swears blind he's a lesbian coz he only likes women.


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## Ken Morgan (Sep 7, 2009)

I just thought of something.

We got an Aussie, and Canadian and a Brit trying, (unsuccessfully I might add), to talk sense into an American.like that has ever been successful in the past.


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## Tez3 (Sep 7, 2009)

ken morgan said:


> i just thought of something.
> 
> we got an aussie, and canadian and a brit trying, (unsuccessfully i might add), to talk sense into an american.like that has ever been successful in the past.


 

qft!


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## LoneRider (Sep 7, 2009)

Tez3 You have facebook? 

And on my own note I've already started an OKCupid.com profile and have started some conversations with some nice women there. I'm feeling better about the situation than I did when I first wrote this forum post.


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## Tez3 (Sep 7, 2009)

LoneRider said:


> *Tez3 You have facebook?*
> 
> And on my own note I've already started an OKCupid.com profile and have started some conversations with some nice women there. I'm feeling better about the situation than I did when I first wrote this forum post.


 
guilty! find Irene Bottomley and send a request ( goes for anyone!) you'll know it's the right one, I have the same avatar lol!
Please don't let some of the more shall we say self centred posts here put you off, life is a lot easier than some make out.


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## jks9199 (Sep 7, 2009)

Tez3 said:


> Personally I want a man hung like a donkey.
> 
> 
> Now if that isn't a conversation stopper I don't know what is and I give up even trying.


Full size pony or miniature pony?


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## Tez3 (Sep 7, 2009)

jks9199 said:


> Full size pony or miniature pony?


 
At my age I'm grateful for anything I get....usually just a cuppa these days lol!


I was talking about my daughter earlier and I have to tell you all about one of her favourite jobs, it's helping the vet when he gelds the horses, the vet removes the horses testicles and puts them on the ground while he/she stitches the wound up, well the stable has a couple of Jack Russell terriers who have the run of the yard and they love nothing better than pinching the testicles and eating them up.

Now* that* should kill the conversation!


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## Carol (Sep 7, 2009)

Tez3 said:


> guilty! find Irene Bottomley and send a request ( goes for anyone!) you'll know it's the right one, I have the same avatar lol!
> Please don't let some of the more shall we say self centred posts here put you off, life is a lot easier than some make out.



Friend request sent


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## jks9199 (Sep 7, 2009)

rdonovan1 said:


> NLP is not about who is superior to one another. It is about creating rapport and asking the right questions.
> 
> By my own admission *I* am not really all that great at asking the right questions and I think that tends to have a lot to do with why *I* was not hired by Victoria's Secrect Direct.
> 
> ...



Do you see a hint above?  

EVERYTHING happens "to you" or is "against you."  

It couldn't possibly be that you're looking the WRONG DIRECTION for the problem and answers, could it?

Can I make myself any more clear?


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## Tez3 (Sep 7, 2009)

Carol Kaur said:


> Friend request sent


 
Yay, now that is cool!


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## Flea (Sep 7, 2009)

Carol Kaur said:


> Friend request sent



What Carol said.  :ultracool


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## Sukerkin (Sep 7, 2009)

Okay ladies and gentlemen, amusing as some of the above is, I think that it is time to either return to the true topic of the thread or let it fade away.

Further, this is in the General area of the site and as such there are no restrictions on who might be reading it, so a touch more attention to 'family friendliness' may be in order.

We don't want to unnecessarily quash the entertainment that posters afford themselves when the opportunity strikes but it would be much appreciated if the injunction to return to topic takes hold without the Moderation team having to begin placing posts with big, bold, letters in them.

Mark A. Beardmore
MT Moderator


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## Tez3 (Sep 7, 2009)

Sukerkin,I know we've been naughty but we have been trying either to gently (okay a little more than gently) derail this thread off the worrying rails it had got itself stuck on or return it to the OP as I said in one of my posts. It's been a bit risque admittedly but as only over 16's are really supposed to be here, a little bawdy humour we thought would restore some equilibrium to some of us. The under current has been far from pleasant and some I think should be thanked for their restraint. A lot of the humour has come with clenched teeth.
Not that I wish to speak for the majority but I think we'd prefer this thread died now with all best wishes to the OP in his quest.


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## Grenadier (Sep 7, 2009)

*ATTENTION ALL USERS:*

This thread has been veering off-topic, and has also turned towards a rather unpleasant direction.  I am going ask that everyone please return to the original topic, and keep things civil.  

-Ronald Shin
-MT Supermoderator


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## The Last Legionary (Sep 7, 2009)

jks9199 said:


> Do you see a hint above?
> 
> EVERYTHING happens "to you" or is "against you."
> 
> ...


You're talking to the deaf mate.  Taint no way such as that will ever evolve to walk upright. His kind fear the light, live neath dirty swamp bridges and prey on the living and minded.  Best to ignore him, hope he sinks back in to the muck and cess that spawned him.  His ilk couldn't get a date at the Moonlight Bunny Ranch, with a fist full of hundred dollar bills, a vial of viagra, and no other males for days.  A sad pitiful existence really, but normal for trollkin.


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## rdonovan1 (Sep 7, 2009)

The Last Legionary said:


> You're talking to the deaf mate. Taint no way such as that will ever evolve to walk upright. His kind fear the light, live neath dirty swamp bridges and prey on the living and minded. Best to ignore him, hope he sinks back in to the muck and cess that spawned him. His ilk couldn't get a date at the Moonlight Bunny Ranch, with a fist full of hundred dollar bills, a vial of viagra, and no other males for days. A sad pitiful existence really, but normal for trollkin.


 
Thank you for destroying my confidence and my self esteem. 

I should know better than to think that anything in life is possible.


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## The Last Legionary (Sep 7, 2009)

rdonovan1 said:


> Thank you for destroying my confidence and my self esteem.
> 
> I should know better than to think that anything in life is possible.


If your ego is so fragile that a couple dozen words on a message board written by someone who only knows you from the crap you port is all it takes to shatter you, and leave you a burned out wreck, then there is really no hope at all for you. It's time for you to log off the Internet, unplug then throw away your modem, pull the curtains shut, crawl back into bed, pull the blanket up over your head, and wait for your body to expire, because your heart and soul are already long since departed.  If you think to give me a guilt trip, express remorse, or otherwise coddle your shallow empty self, you are sadly mistaken.  Life is pain, life is risk, life is agony. You come on here, post after post filled with self pity, and blaming others for all that is wrong in your life. You are where you are, experiencing what you experience, feeling what you feel, because you, and only you are responsible for the choices that brought you here. Only you can change that, and until you accept that responsibility, stop posting whiney sad sack ****, you will be nothing more than a useless waste of DNA in my, and many many others eyes.  Grow a set of balls, man up, and grow the **** up already.   Join the military. They'll either make a man out of you, or you'll die in the process.  Either way, society will be better for it.  Or keep being a walking, posting bleeding vagina.  I personally could care less about you, your issues, your problems, or your continued sorry sad lame *** existence.   Hard words? Can't take it? Go ask your mamma to change your diaper and get off the internet.  You might have missed that this site's only for those over the age of 16 kiddo.

In any event, this is a discussion about dating, which is an activity you're not ready for it seems. Better to bow out. Or will you post more whiney sobby pitiful crap like what was lost when the site went **** up a few back?


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## Jenny_in_Chico (Sep 7, 2009)

The Last Legionary said:


> ...Or keep being a walking, posting bleeding vagina. I personally could care less about you, your issues, your problems...


 
Cut that out, man. That sort of insult is not acceptable on a reputable site, especially one which hosts members such as myself who are actually in possession of vaginas.


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## elder999 (Sep 8, 2009)

*Oh, for Pete&#8217;s sake.*




The Last Legionary said:


> In any event, this is a discussion about dating, which is an activity you're not ready for it seems. Better to bow out. Or will you post more whiney sobby pitiful crap like what was lost when the site went **** up a few back?


 
You're funny sometimes, dude, but your whole post was really unnecessary, and bordered on cruel. It was also downright offensive-and not just to the person it was directed towards;I&#8217;d probably have no problem with _that_, as you know.

Of course, _everyone_ should keep in mind that those particular words of wisdom came from a guy who consorts with transvestite hookers in police drag. :lol:

In light of the direction the thread has now taken, though, I figure I&#8217;ll try and get some last thoughts in before it&#8217;s locked-down.

A couple of years after my kids' mom died, my boy told me that I should put my wedding ring away, get one of &#8220;the girls,&#8221; like the Porsche, out of storage, and find myself a girlfriend. 

Mind you, I wasn&#8217;t exactly &#8220;in mourning&#8221; anymore (though-and here&#8217;s another *absolute truth*-_mourning *never* ends_) but I hadn&#8217;t been on a &#8220;date&#8221; with a strange woman in more than 13 years, and the very thought scared the crap out of me. The world had changed-there were all these new rules,and diseases, and I&#8217;d been fending off relatively crazed, predatory women who thought a single dad &#8220;needed a woman,&#8221; and that that woman was them. *Newsflash*: I didn&#8217;t &#8220;need&#8221; a woman-I hired a nanny :lol: The notion of dating had occurred to me before, though, so I set about, in spite of my trepidation, to dating-and _flirting,_ which I remembered being good at, but hadn&#8217;t really practiced much, that I knew of anyway.

Along the way, I tried online dating-such as it was in 1995(there was no eHarmony), and had a little success with it. Power to anyone who tries it,Lonerider, in any of the available venues. I know several couples who met this way, and it-well, it beats picking up waitresses, which I also did, along with librarians,a musician,way too many artists, schoolteachers, and a genuine rocket-scientist&#8230;&#8230;I also learned a few key things, _like what I wanted in a *companion,*_ at that point in my life. 

In the end, these things tend to solve themselves-be happy, or at least content with your life, and what you're doing, know what you want in a companion, and, you know what? Odds are good that she'll _show up_-that's what happened to me. 

More importantly: I&#8217;d avoided getting close to anyone for a while, simply from the belief, and the fear, that I&#8217;d only lose them, as I had before-and, you know what?

_I will_ Such is the nature of life. Another absolute truth. And yet another:

The only people who can hurt you-really break your heart-are the ones that you let get close to you. If you don&#8217;t want to get hurt that way, don&#8217;t get close to anyone-but if you don&#8217;t get close to anyone, _don&#8217;t go whining about how you can&#8217;t find anyone to get close to. _It&#8217;s the risk that you take with your &#8220;security&#8221;, Mr. Donovan, &#8216;cause there&#8217;s only one safe place on the planet, and that&#8217;s the grave. If you spend your life afraid of gold-diggers and scammers-and, oh yeah, I managed to use a couple of those gold-diggers myself along the way, along with a genuine, raving stalking psycho-then you simply should stay at home, but don&#8217;t cry about how you can&#8217;t meet anyone decent anymore. Sounds like-what with your employment situation and everything-that you&#8217;re hardly &#8220;gold-digger bait,&#8221; anyway. What are you so worried about? Get on with it, get out there, and take some risks-

-or content yourself with the company of the one person on earth you should *absolutely* trust: _yourself._


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## rdonovan1 (Sep 8, 2009)

I know that this is and will probably sound crazy to a lot of people, but I have always believed that one of the most important things that a guy needs to have when dating or in doing anything in life is confidence and the belief in themselve's.

You may not have all of the answers in life right away to everything, but if you don't believe in yourself and if you don't take some risks in life then who the heck is going to believe in you. 

I know that there are scammers and gold diggers out there as I have come across both of them, but just because they are there doesn't mean that you have to give into them at all. 

If someone disrespects you whether they are male of female for any reason then a person should have the right to voice their displeasure and to walk away from the person if need be. 

Cutting down a person just because they are different from you in any fashion is in my book wrong and should not be tolerated by anyone for any reason and it is very harmful to the one being cut down. 

In my book there is a big difference between playful teasing between friends and family and actually insulting someone just because they are in some way different from you. 

People who choose to insult another person either intentionally or accidentally are by definition bullies. Especially when it is on going and deliberate and when it is something that is on going and deliberate then that tends to be very damaging to the person's psyche and well being that is being insulted. 

I may not have all of the answers to the dating, mating, and relating scene and I doubt that anyone else does either, but I have at least studied the subject enough to understand many of the things that I have done wrong in the past with women.

Just because I have done things wrong in the past with women does not mean that I have to keep making those same mistakes with them as part of the entire learning process is being able to learn from our mistakes and that is what is supposed to set us apart from the animals.

I don't have all of the answers to everything and I never will. All that I know is that I have made a lot of mistakes with women in the past and I still do even to this day, but instead of sitting around whining about it all I am at least trying to understand what I did right and what I did wrong so that the next time will be different

I don't know if any of that makes sense at all, but it is all that I can muster at the moment. I tried to make it as understandable and as simple as I could so that people could understand as to where I am coming from better.


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## MJS (Sep 8, 2009)

*ADMIN NOTE*

*2ND MOD WARNING*

*Folks,*

*We already have 1 mod note in place, which has apparently been ignored.  Return to the topic at hand please, don't fire back at rude posts, but instead use the RTM as well as placing the person on ignore.  It makes everyones job a bit easier.*

*Mike Slosek*
*MT Asst. Admin*


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## Flea (Sep 8, 2009)

elder999 said:


> *Oh, for Pete&#8217;s sake.*
> 
> 
> You're funny sometimes, dude, but your whole post was really unnecessary, and bordered on cruel. It was also downright offensive-and not just to the person it was directed towards



Thank you.  This thread has undergone a dramatic downward spiral in the past few days and I for one hope for some moderator intervention.  I'd hate to see the whole thread deleted because there is some good advice, but this is getting out of control.  I wouldn't presume to tell the moderators how to do their jobs, but would it be feasible to delete all the hijacking and leave the intended content of the thread in place?  Just an suggestion ...

* edit *  I see my post crossed with the Moderator's.  Well and good.


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## rdonovan1 (Sep 8, 2009)

elder999 said:


> *Oh, for Petes sake.*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
I know what you mean, but I think that perhaps it would be best to take this into a separate thread as men and women are different in many ways and whether we like it or not it can and does effect how we think and act towards one another. 

What I have been trying to say all along is that if you want to understand the opposite sex then learn from the opposite sex. 

I know that many people might disagree with me on this but men generally don't understand women and women generally don't understand men at all.

This concept applies to eHarmony and to every other dating website out there and what I was trying to say at the begining is that I have learned quite a lot about women not only from my studies, but also from my own personal experiences with them both online and offline.

eHarmony might work for some people, but I for one did not find it very worth while at all. They had very few people on there that were from my area and I found that the only way that I could get any kinds of matches at all was if I opened myself up to the entire United States.

That had it's pluses and it's minuses. One of my matches that they set me up with was with a girl from Oklahoma who was supposedly into the martial arts or at least that is what her profile said was one of her interests.

I never got very far with her at all because she never really finished things up on her end at all for some reason. I'm guessing that she probably gave up on eHarmony and met someone else through some other means like either in person or through another dating website. 

They also had me matched up with some girl from Oregon as well. I think that we made it into open communication, but things just didn't work out as neither of us really seemed to be interested in the same things.

Perhaps part of my problem with eHarmony is that I probably did not fill out the questionare as well as I should have because I really did not understand myself as well as I thought that I did and I still have problems with that even today when I fill out online employment applications.

Some of the questions that they ask on eHarmony really tend to get you to think about things that you think you might like, but have never really done.

In all of the matches that eHarmony hooked me up with none of them were from my local area. All of them were way out of town or out of state which of course made actually meeting them in person next to impossible.

I did try another one that was similar to eHarmony, but at the moment I can't remember the name of the website. 

I think that I have tried Cupid.com as well, but I can't remember. I know however that I have tried the Yahoo Personals and that is ok, but unless you write a really good captivating ad with a good headline your chances of success with it are minimal at best. 

I've also tried Friend finder and Adult Friend Finder, but with about the same amount of success that I did with any of the others. 

I don't know if I will ever try any of the online sites again or not given my experiences with them in the past. At this point in time I think that I am probably more likely to try looking offline than I am online and that is one of the main reasons as to why I came to MT to begin with.

I'm pretty much to the point now where I figure that the internet is only really good for business and that it is probably better to look offline for love, but that is just my personal opinion given my experiences with it all.


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## Jade Tigress (Sep 8, 2009)

*MOD NOTE:

All off topic or rude posts from the eHarmony thread have been split. If you care to read them, here they are, but the thread is locked for further replies. 

Pamela Piszczek
MT Super Moderator*


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