# american goj ryu



## drummingman (Jan 1, 2007)

what sets this style apart from normal goju ryu? can someone give me a good sum up of what american goju ryu is and what its strengths and weaknesses are? can you also do the same for normal goju ryu? and can you then compare american and normal goju ryu and which one you like best and why?
thanks


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## cstanley (Jan 1, 2007)

American Goju is an altered, "modernized" version of Goju which probably should not really be called Goju. There are some good martial artists in that style, but it isn't Goju. Goju is a specifically Okinawan art, with standard kata, kihon, and training regimens and techniques. American Goju is different.


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## Haze (Jan 14, 2007)

American goju or USA goju (Peter Urban) derived from Japanese goju (Yamaguchi) which originated in Okinawa with the teaching of Miyagi Sensei (goju ryu) and has a standard set of warm ups, conditioning excersizes and standardized kata. 

Each off shoot from Miyagi's goju made some changes but I believe that each one is still a great system and each one, in my oppinion, can use the name goju as long as it is used in context with the origination of that particular system of goju.

Okinawan Goju Ryu (Miyagi)
Japanese Goju or GojuKai (Yamaguchi)
American Goju (Peter Urban)
Chinese Goju ( Ron VanClief)


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## cstanley (Jan 14, 2007)

Haze said:


> American goju or USA goju (Peter Urban) derived from Japanese goju (Yamaguchi) which originated in Okinawa with the teaching of Miyagi Sensei (goju ryu) and has a standard set of warm ups, conditioning excersizes and standardized kata.
> 
> Each off shoot from Miyagi's goju made some changes but I believe that each one is still a great system and each one, in my oppinion, can use the name goju as long as it is used in context with the origination of that particular system of goju.
> 
> ...


 
I see you have them listed in properly "descending" order.


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## stone_dragone (Jan 14, 2007)

Haze said:


> American goju or USA goju (Peter Urban) derived from Japanese goju (Yamaguchi) which originated in Okinawa with the teaching of Miyagi Sensei (goju ryu) and has a standard set of warm ups, conditioning excersizes and standardized kata.
> 
> Each off shoot from Miyagi's goju made some changes but I believe that each one is still a great system and each one, in my oppinion, can use the name goju as long as it is used in context with the origination of that particular system of goju.
> 
> ...


 
I have never trained with shidoshi VanClief, but having recently viewed the 5 tape Blackbelt video series demonstrating his system, the nicest thing that I can say is that it resembles nothing that even sounds like Goju.  

I'm no expert in the more traditional, "authentic" (if you will) schools of Goju Ryu by any means, but a side by side comparison of a yudansha level practitioners of Chinese Goju and even Japanese Goju Ryu or Gojukai will demonstrate a 180 degree difference.

I am not here saying that VanClief is not a great teacher or martial artist, only that his system, in my opinion, shouldn't be included in a list of Goju styles.

For those who haven't seen it, get the tapes and decide for yourself. Better yet, study with him or one of his instructors.

BTW, the tapes may still be available on Blackbelt's website in the clearance area...thats where I got mine...5 tapes x $2.99/ea.


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## twendkata71 (Jan 14, 2007)

Van Clief was originally a student of Goju ryu under Peter Urban and Frank Ruiz. That is why he uses the Goju in his style name. He later added Many chinese Gong Fu styles, VingTsun,Taekwondo, and others. I have seen demonstrations by some of his people, and it does not show its original Goju ryu background anymore. Each branch off group has changed the kata slightly.  I think that it started with Yamaguchi Gogen O Sensei, He was a great teacher, but I do not think that he spent enough time with Miyagi Chojun O sensei and this leaves little gaps in knowledge. this in turn would created changes, out of adaptation of loss of memory on the kata. Many Masters from all styles have changed the kata that were handed down to them because is suited their body type. Not every person can perform a kata exactly the same way that the person who taught them did. But, that does not mean one should arbitrarily change the kata just because he/she feels like it.


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## jtbdad (Jan 14, 2007)

Haze said:


> American goju or USA goju (Peter Urban) derived from Japanese goju (Yamaguchi) which originated in Okinawa with the teaching of Miyagi Sensei (goju ryu) and has a standard set of warm ups, conditioning excersizes and standardized kata.
> 
> Each off shoot from Miyagi's goju made some changes but I believe that each one is still a great system and each one, in my oppinion, can use the name goju as long as it is used in context with the origination of that particular system of goju.
> 
> ...




Wasn't Lou Angel a Student of Peter Urban?


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## Haze (Jan 14, 2007)

stone_dragone said:


> I am not here saying that VanClief is not a great teacher or martial artist, only that his system, in my opinion, shouldn't be included in a list of Goju styles.



I was just listing these to show how an art can change as each generation may see things diferently. The art that Miyagi taught was not necesarily what was taught to him. The name, goju, was choosen for what reasons? There is many stories about this. The Miyagi family crest was of the Heavens and Earth which was also thought to represent hard and soft or the Chinese principal of yin yang. 

Members of Jundokan tells a story one way and Meibukan folks tell it another way. 

Each school of goju has their own ways.


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## twendkata71 (Jan 14, 2007)

Lou Angel trained with Urban and Yamaguchi. More Urban than Yamaguchi.


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## Burnerbob (Mar 5, 2007)

drummingman said:


> what sets this style apart from normal goju ryu? can someone give me a good sum up of what american goju ryu is and what its strengths and weaknesses are? can you also do the same for normal goju ryu? and can you then compare american and normal goju ryu and which one you like best and why?
> thanks


Their web site http://americangoju.com/


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## ziason (Mar 13, 2007)

Does anyone have any knowledge of how the Urban Amaerican Goju style compares (i.e. is related, not which dog is better) to Shaolin Kempo or SHorinji Kempo in any form? I have trained in SKK and am considering American Goju, and just wondering if there is any overlap. I understan the okinawan arts developed from exposure to Shaolin in China. Any input would be appreciated.


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## fnorfurfoot (Mar 13, 2007)

ziason said:


> Does anyone have any knowledge of how the Urban Amaerican Goju style compares (i.e. is related, not which dog is better) to Shaolin Kempo or SHorinji Kempo in any form? I have trained in SKK and am considering American Goju, and just wondering if there is any overlap. I understan the okinawan arts developed from exposure to Shaolin in China. Any input would be appreciated.


I trained in an offshoot of Urban's Goju.  There is very little that is similar between SKK and Goju.  There were only two things that were similar.  One Pinan is called Gedan and the 8 point blocking system has the same blocks but in a different order.  They also have a series of techniques that are taught in a particular order like combinations that they call Geipoons.


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## ziason (Mar 14, 2007)

Can you tell me anything else about the syste? Waht does it focus on? What type of things are included (throws, locks, kicks?). Just trying to get a little more info. I tried looking it up online, but I'm not finding much except some really pooprly designed websites listing the different schools.


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## fnorfurfoot (Mar 14, 2007)

The school that I trained at focused a lot on point fighting.  Along with the other stuff that I mentioned before, they also have a number of "sets".  There are kicking sets, hand striking sets, a stance set, and a slapping out set.  Each contains 12 moves each.  I borrowed the kicking and hand sets and added them to my kempo system.  They are like mini katas but you don't move around a whole lot.  Within the geipoons there are throws and locks.  They system has alot to offer.  

My only problem with the school I went to is that they love tournaments so they really focused on forms and sparring.  I would have prefered to have seen more techniques while I was there.


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## Brian S (Oct 19, 2007)

fnorfurfoot said:


> The school that I trained at focused a lot on point fighting. Along with the other stuff that I mentioned before, they also have a number of "sets". There are kicking sets, hand striking sets, a stance set, and a slapping out set. Each contains 12 moves each. I borrowed the kicking and hand sets and added them to my kempo system. They are like mini katas but you don't move around a whole lot. Within the geipoons there are throws and locks. They system has alot to offer.
> 
> My only problem with the school I went to is that they love tournaments so they really focused on forms and sparring. I would have prefered to have seen more techniques while I was there.


 
This clearly shows the differences between not just styles, but schools within the styles.

We focus on anything BUT point fighting and tournaments. Those, to me, are political aspects and are a waste of my time and money.

It's much better for me to focus on what karate, in my opinion, is supposed to be about. Self preservation and self perfection.



> posted by cstanley
> American Goju is an altered, "modernized" version of Goju which probably should not really be called Goju. There are some good martial artists in that style, but it isn't Goju. Goju is a specifically Okinawan art, with standard kata, kihon, and training regimens and techniques. American Goju is different.


 
To me, this represents an elitist attitude. It is indeed Goju. Goju is not specifically an Okinawan art, Goju-Ryu is, but Goju is not.

If someone says they teach American Goju-Ryu, they are mistaken.


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## chinto (Oct 20, 2007)

Brian S said:


> This clearly shows the differences between not just styles, but schools within the styles.
> 
> We focus on anything BUT point fighting and tournaments. Those, to me, are political aspects and are a waste of my time and money.
> 
> ...


 

Goju ryu was systemized and made on Okinawa. that makes it Okinawan as far as Okinawan Goju.  then there is a branch known as Japanese Goju, and its slightly diferent then its Okinawan roots as I understand it... ( I am a Shorin Ryu guy not a goju guy...)  so from what has been said in this and a difernet thread I think the one called "American Goju" is aparantly decended from Japanese Goju... but I would bet there is some one here who is a Goju Ryu practioner who can tell us exactly the diferences..


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## SenseiRuss (Jul 12, 2012)

I studied American Goju way back in the 1970's and 1980's. It was, at the time,called (and I'm pretty sure, still is) called USA Goju, at least in Grandmaster Peter Urban's schools of that style. It's a very good style, but does not adhere to much of Okinawan Goju-Ryu. Japanese Goju-Ryu is much closer to Okinawan Goju-Ryu. All are good and effective schools of Goju, depending of course, on which dojo you study at. There, are, obviously, superior and inferior schools in any widespread style of karate.


So, if you want to study "American" Goju, make sure to watch a class, or better yet, a few classes, and get a good sense of:
&#8226; how well the teacher knows his/her stuff
&#8226; how disciplined and respectful the students are
&#8226; how practical the self defense aspects look
&#8226; how good a physical workout you'll get
&#8226; how sharp the teacher's and students' techniques look
&#8226; Whether they do sparring and whether they use protective gear


All these things, taken into consideration, will help you decide if "American Goju" is a good choice for you. Good luck.


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## dancingalone (Jul 12, 2012)

There are a number of American/USA Goju lineage schools in the San Antonio, Texas area.  They're very active in the open tournament scene there and do well in both sparring and forms.  As others have said, the principles their practitioners work off of are very dissimilar to what I would expect to see within Okinawan Goju-ryu karate.

That said, I don't deny that it can be a worthwhile form of karate to train in.


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## Black Belt Jedi (Jul 14, 2012)

American Goju is mixed with Goju-kai, Kyokushin-kai and Shorinji-ryu, since Peter Urban had trained under Yamaguchi, Mas Oyama and Richard Kim. I think Urban system should be commonly called Urban-ryu.


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