# Need advice.



## Kframe (Feb 9, 2014)

Hey guys. 

I have been dealing with a issue for 9 years now and its not going away. I have just had another fight with her about it and I don't think it is ever going to change. We have a martial intimacy problem. She has almost no drive what so ever. Im lucky that I had the 2 kids I have now, it was pure luck. We fight about it every year and every year she promises to change and nothing does.. Im tired of feeling like a worthless fool..  

Honestly this is the only major issue we have, good other wise, but this is such a huge issue. It wracks me emotionally and makes me feel like im the problem.. I know im heavy, I have always been huge. She married me that way. I am trying to fix it, 100lbs down 100 to go.. Whats odd is that our sex life pre marriage was great.  I just feel like she doesn't  find me attractive.  

Its like it never even cross's her mind, ever. I don't know how such a thing is possible. I have tried many times to get us into councilling or sex therapy but she wants  no part of it. Says they are a waste of time  and that she does not feel that we have a problem. 

She hates that I bring up the past when we talk about it and says I need to move on and just shut up and get over it. That she's tired of my whining. 

There are times that go by when I do feel a little better, and I try not to think about it. How ever there comes a point when I get turned down for the 300th time that I start to get angry and resentful. Which then makes me short tempered and terse with her.  It is having such a profound negative impact on us. I have repeated kept trying to get her to tell me what is wrong and why she doesn't want me any more and she just says she doesn't know what to say and to let it go and stop whining and get over it. 

So the question is, seeing that I have 2 kids and we only make a combined $33k a year, how much is child support going to be for me if I leave her? I know no one can give accurate but id love to hear from some others on what to expect.

I don't want divorce but I cant be miserable for another 10 years. I know the bible says its wrong to divorce but I am nearing my limit to deal with this... I am so sick of being angry and miserable. 

Thanks for the imput guys.


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## jks9199 (Feb 9, 2014)

This is something that I don't even want to try to address here; it's way out of my areas of expertise.  Odds are that the problems aren't where you think they are, what you think they are, and probably lie deeper than you realize and at the very least, you have a communication problem.  I strongly encourage you to seek advice from a marriage counselor.  There are services everywhere that work on sliding scales; Catholic Charities is just one.


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## Kframe (Feb 9, 2014)

JKS I have tried repeatedly to get us into counseling. She flat out refuses to go to one with me. She wants no part of couples counseling or therapy.  I have been trying that for along time and every time it comes up it just starts a fight. 

I am just so sick of feeling like this, so sick of feeling like a worthless fool. I know its because I m heavy, I just wish she would come out and tell me about it. 

I have tried for years to talk to her to  ask every question I could think of in every possible way to get her to tell me what is wrong. All I get is I don't have a answer or I don't know or some snippy talk about how its just me that has a problem.


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## ballen0351 (Feb 9, 2014)

I have no answer to your problems.  I will address your child support question.  Most states use a formula and if you search the web you should be able to find the formula.  Usually on the court systems website someplace.  
As to the rest if your that unhappy it comes time to do what you got to do.  Maybe telling her your considering leaving will show her its serious and she may be more inclined to seeks help with you.  If not then at least you tried


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## Tgace (Feb 9, 2014)

I've heard the "you are the only one with a problem" excuse used with other couples....

When you are married and one person has "a problem", then by definition it is a problem for you both.

Have you discussed the "D" word?

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2


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## Kframe (Feb 9, 2014)

I have discussed it, ill have to see if anything comes of it. 

Ballen, ill look it up thank you for the suggestion. To the rest. Ya I am un happy but dang it  we had something. I don't want to give this up with out a fight.   There must be something im missing. Something over looked. I love her and I don't want to end it brashly or even at all. I am just so tired of being miserable. 

Im going to keep trying to push for counseling but I do know that I can not wait forever.  Maybe  a talk with the gynecologist will help as she has not been to the lady Doctor since our 5 year old was born....  (It didn't occur to me till now to go talk to her, not sure why we haven't done it before?)

I appreciate the advice guys.  This is not something I am taking lightly.  I am going to explore every thing I can before moving on to any final decisions. I feel that talking to the Gynecologist is the next logical step and then maybe the pastor. 

My goal is to start to either finally deal with it or get to the point were I can make the decision to move on.. 


I cant rush in to this. Sudden change is bad for my autistic son, it would drive him literally insane. The amount of mental damage that would do to him would take years to undo. I know my son and this would be horridly bad for him. 

So thanks again for the advice guys, and I appreciate it.   Truthfully this is mostly just venting, as it feels good to get it out there.


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## granfire (Feb 9, 2014)

Ok, the gal's point of view:

First of all, get counseling. If she won't go with you, go for yourself. Maybe she'll join you, maybe she won't. ut at least you gave it a go. 

Things that turn a gal off, in no particular order:
Being tired from chasing the kids
Cleaning house
Birth control

You mention 10 years, so your kids are under ten. That's an age that sucks a lot of energy out of you. (and frankly, 2 kids is plenty, really)

I know guys don't get it when I tell them that the most sexy thing they can do to 'get more' is to clean house, scrub the toilet, do dishes, etc (and I mean well, not so that you flood the house, ruin her favorite sweater and all the dishes need to be washed again!). so if it is not currently on your plan, have you thought about doing this?

The pill comes in many different formulations. Some kinds kill the mood. Plain as that.

and of course, there is that other possibility: 
She has checked out already, doesn't want t anymore. Being roommates is fine with her (or she is getting her kicks some place else)


I was going to say something significant about the religious aspect, but I got run over by my train of thought....

I am assuming that your wife has a similar spiritual back ground...and heaven help me I am putting myself out here...maybe there are some issues of her own she is not comfortable talking about. The 'downtown' areas are sometimes difficult to discuss, even with the person who has seen you naked before.


I would not put too much stake into the biblical thing about divorce. It takes two to tango, and if one has already checked out, you are better off cutting ties than to live with the growing resentment. it's better for you and for your kids! 

Good luck to you!

PS:
The OB/GYN will probably not tell you much, but I suppose it won't hurt to have a talk. (but if she has not been back in 5 years, that's not good. Getting the plumbing checked every year, every other at bare minimum....)


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## Tgace (Feb 10, 2014)

granfire said:


> Ok, the gal's point of view:
> 
> First of all, get counseling. If she won't go with you, go for yourself. Maybe she'll join you, maybe she won't. ut at least you gave it a go.
> 
> ...



Good points. One of the best moves I made was to get the "Big V" and let my wife get off of BC.

...but even so, mood..lack of energy..kids..etc...10 years of "problems" in the bedroom? Isn't there some point where ya have to "just do it" for the sake of the marriage?


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## oftheherd1 (Feb 10, 2014)

Granfire has good advice, from a woman's point of view.  Worth listening to.  

Except the part about religion.  If it's that much a part of your life, don.  If you are willing to ask people on the MT forum, why not ask your pastor?

I wish you luck with this problem.  I can't really offer any advice beyond what has already been offered, and what you have already tried.  I will pray for you and your family.


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## arnisador (Feb 10, 2014)

Good advice! Counseling is key--but getting her to join you may be tough. One caveat to what was said: 



granfire said:


> I know guys don't get it when I tell them that the most sexy thing they can do to 'get more' is to clean house, scrub the toilet, do dishes, etc (and I mean well, not so that you flood the house, ruin her favorite sweater and all the dishes need to be washed again!). so if it is not currently on your plan, have you thought about doing this?



Statistically, it doesn't work out like people expect:
*Does a More Equal Marriage Mean Less Sex?*



> A study called Egalitarianism, Housework and Sexual Frequency in Marriage, which appeared in The American Sociological Review last year, surprised many, precisely because it went against the logical assumption that as marriages improve by becoming more equal, the sex in these marriages will improve, too. Instead, it found that when men did certain kinds of chores around the house, couples had less sex. Specifically, if men did all of what the researchers characterized as feminine chores like folding laundry, cooking or vacuuming  the kinds of things many women say they want their husbands to do  then couples had sex 1.5 fewer times per month than those with husbands who did what were considered masculine chores, like taking out the trash or fixing the car. It wasnt just the frequency that was affected, either  at least for the wives. The more traditional the division of labor, meaning the greater the husbands share of masculine chores compared with feminine ones, the greater his wifes reported sexual satisfaction.



On another line of thought...if divorce is in the works, a thread like this could potentially be used against you.


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## donald1 (Feb 10, 2014)

Kframe said:


> Hey guys.
> 
> I have been dealing with a issue for 9 years now and its not going away. I have just had another fight with her about it and I don't think it is ever going to change. We have a martial intimacy problem. She has almost no drive what so ever. Im lucky that I had the 2 kids I have now, it was pure luck. We fight about it every year and every year she promises to change and nothing does
> 
> ...



sometimes when i do really big challenges it helps to break it down into small steps(as few steps as possible)

weight problems only seem like a problem if you think about it, a well balanced eating plan with a routine excersize could help that(it dosnt have to be a big excersize, it can start out easy then progress as youget better)

this is just a guess, is it denial? sometimes when people see there is a problem they know there is a problem but there too scared to do anything about the problem

its okay to remember them, that's what makes you normal. i don't remember the full saying but "what dosn't kill them makes them stronger"

maybe you can persuade her that you guys could see a marriage counselor ("for the kids and that your marriage lasts longer")

Best of luck


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## EddieCyrax (Feb 10, 2014)

I am not a lawyer, just a guy who has witnessed many friends go through the bid "D".

My only advise to you, is be careful what you put in print.  This very thread "can and will" be used against you in a D hearing.


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## granfire (Feb 10, 2014)

arnisador said:


> Good advice! Counseling is key--but getting her to join you may be tough. One caveat to what was said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Interesting study.

However, I am speaking more from personal experience...less on my plate to take care of, more chances somebody gets lucky, vs getting his fool head chewed off.


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## Kframe (Feb 10, 2014)

Hey guys. 

We talked about it today. She is still uncertain about the validity of the counseling arts, but has agreed to start looking for a councilor.  Secondly we are going to pursue the medical side of this as because this isn't just a few times a month issue, its more like we only get busy twice a year issue. So I feel that maybe something medical is going on.  

She doesn't like the fact that we fight about it all the time. She has agreed there is a issue but wants me to stop getting so angry about it.  


I think that it is a start.  I am not going to give this up with out a fight. I have been coasting through this for to long. Ill keep you posted and let you know what's up. 

To my lady friends here. Along time ago she had Polyps removed from her Ovaries. I wonder if maybe they returned and could be causing some hormonal issues??


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## granfire (Feb 10, 2014)

The polyps she needs to discuss with her doctor. I suppose it is possible (Web MD can tell you more though)

But seriously - again speaking from my heart here - don't involve too many strangers with her medical history.

A couple of years ago I found a lump in my breast. Before I even got t see my doctor my boob was on every prayer list in the county! I was really unhappy about that! While I understood my husband's fears (my sister had passed away from breast cancer a few years prior) I am private about my boobs. I did not rip him a new one, but I was pretty mad! 

Glad to hear she is giving it a go.
Marriage isn't for the faint of heart!
It takes a lot of work.


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## jks9199 (Feb 10, 2014)

Kframe said:


> Hey guys.
> 
> We talked about it today. She is still uncertain about the validity of the counseling arts, but has agreed to start looking for a councilor.  Secondly we are going to pursue the medical side of this as because this isn't just a few times a month issue, its more like we only get busy twice a year issue. So I feel that maybe something medical is going on.
> 
> ...



Regarding counseling... what you need isn't someone to "fix" your relationship.  You need someone to help the two of you learn how to communicate more effectively.  You're looking at a symptom write now (not enough activity in the bedroom) and not the root cause.


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## Brian King (Feb 10, 2014)

Counseling can give you or you both new or better communication skills. They are not a perfect pill and come with homework that will need to get done. If you cannot get her to go to counseling go yourself. Your church should be able to help find a counselor or pastor to help you. Sounds like you both are angry and hurt, so besides learning how to speak a more helpful language, counseling might help you to deal with guilt, blame, and forgiveness. Again if she wont go, get yourself to counseling. If she sees improvement maybe that will help to convince her in the benefit but even if she doesn't, you can only change yourself and you can only effect yourself and counseling might give you the tools to do so. 

Divorce rarely helps and brings along many more problems. HIGHLY recommend this book by Diane Medved  http://www.amazon.com/Case-Against-...8&qid=1392094200&sr=1-1&keywords=diane+medved

(If you send me an address and promise to read it, I will buy one of the used ones and send it to you as a gift with the caveat that when finished with it, you give it to some other couple scared and having trouble)

Good luck
Regards
Brian King


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## Carol (Feb 10, 2014)

Tgace said:


> Good points. One of the best moves I made was to get the "Big V" and let my wife get off of BC.
> 
> ...but even so, mood..lack of energy..kids..etc...10 years of "problems" in the bedroom? Isn't there some point where ya have to "just do it" for the sake of the marriage?



*Yes.* * Absolutely.*

I went through hell for a long time with a disorder that was sucking the soul out of me and leaving only generic symptoms (such as exhaustion).  A neurological/autoimmune matter was finally identified and treatment was a smashing success.  But before the success, I had to sustain many failures and misdiagnoses.  Unfortunately that's a rather standard course for patients that have a rare disorder of some sort.  The common causes are explored before the rare causes. Brutal as it was though, it was great to get better.  The day I was diagnosed was one of the best days of my life 

Failed treatments are no fun, because it means the meds aren't making you better and often bring side effects that make you feel even worse.  But even when the med-du-jour took my libido away, I was married at the time and still pushed myself to have some sort of intimate relations with my husband.   It wasn't what we were used to but I wasn't exactly leaving him in the cold either.   I didn't want to, even though my own body was betraying me.

No intimacy at all...there's a lot going on there, in my untrained opinion.  There may be a medical component to the picture, but even if a medical issue is addressed, getting a prescription filled will not address 10 years of habits.


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## donald1 (Feb 11, 2014)

Kframe said:


> Hey guys.
> 
> We talked about it today. She is still uncertain about the validity of the counseling arts, but has agreed to start looking for a councilor.  Secondly we are going to pursue the medical side of this as because this isn't just a few times a month issue, its more like we only get busy twice a year issue. So I feel that maybe something medical is going on.
> 
> ...



good luck with that hope all works out


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## Brian R. VanCise (Feb 11, 2014)

Good luck and I hope you guy's are able to get some counseling and work things out!


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## wingchun100 (Feb 12, 2014)

I don't know where you live (and I am still new here so I don't know you or what marital problems you have), but in New York State these are the rules:

If you have one child together, they take 17% of your adjusted gross income. For two kids, it is 25%.


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## Kframe (Feb 12, 2014)

Thanks all for the thoughts..  Neither of us wants to divorce, and honestly my spiritual beliefs are against it.   

Quite honestly we have been putting this off way to long. Coasting through until we boiled over into a huge fight and then make up and rinse and repeat.  

JKS is correct in that I have been looking at only the symptom, not the cause. I hope we can identify them. I am sure I am one of them..  I am a guy after all and I do dumb guy things.. 

Thanks guys for the advice. Ill keep you guys updated as time goes by.


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## Instructor (Feb 13, 2014)

My heart goes out to you Kframe.  I've been in a difficult marriage myself before.  I am in a fantastic one now thankfully.  It is not the same marriage...lol.  I ended up having to lose a marriage and then found a woman who is a great match for me.  As painful as that marriage was and the the divorce I am happy now.

Do you and your wife attend Church or anything?  Sometimes a pastor can find a way in to help when a counselor will be rebuffed.  Also I hate to say it you might just try a big fat ultimatum.  Tell her to choose between a counseling or a divorce lawyer.  It's tough love but it sounds like she needs to be rattled into reality.


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## Kframe (Feb 13, 2014)

Instructor she has agreed to see counseling with me. She is very uneasy about it but will go.   I am glad to hear you are in a good relationship. I wish there was more research in to problems like this. I honestly think what I am going through goes beyond the stereotypical stuff. Such as wife not happy with husband who comes home and does not chores, so im going to punish him with nothing..   There must be something deeper to this.  

Heck I have a male co worker who is low drive! Like nearly on the same level as my wife low!


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## Steve (Feb 13, 2014)

I'm really glad to hear that you guys are going to counseling.  I'd bet that all of the things you think are causing this are just symptoms and agree that at the very least, you guys aren't communicating very well.

 At 10 years, you guys are actually at the point in your marriage most likely to end in divorce.  Between 10 and 20 years, over 30% of marriages end in divorce.  While I would never suggest that your weight has anything to do with the lack of intimacy, I WOULD encourage you to recommit to being the best possible version of yourself that you can be.  

good luck!


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## Mauthos (Feb 14, 2014)

Sad to hear the issues you are going through and I hope the counselling helps and things get sorted for you.  Having just come out of a 15 year relationship followed by a 18 month legal battle to have access rights to my daughter, I can honestly say that going from a comitted relationship to being single is a hard adjustment and we had simlar issues as to yourself when it came to the bedroom.  Although that wasn't the reason we ended up splitting.

Anyway, I am comfortable being single now, but I am not looking forward to looking for another partner, so I hope that you can both work things out before it gets to that stage where it has gone too far, which is what happened to me.  My thoughts are with you.


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## Instructor (Feb 14, 2014)

One thing I've learned is relationships are not about how many years they've existed.  It's about what's happening right now, this moment.  Live moment by moment and cherish that way.  The years will take care of themselves.


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## Kframe (Feb 16, 2014)

Valentines has come and gone, promises made and broken. Apologies issued but I feel they are empty.  I am more convinced it is me. I have been reading various blogs about sexless marriages and it has been eye opening.  

Christ help me..


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## Kframe (Feb 16, 2014)

Steve said:


> I'm really glad to hear that you guys are going to counseling.  I'd bet that all of the things you think are causing this are just symptoms and agree that at the very least, you guys aren't communicating very well.
> 
> At 10 years, you guys are actually at the point in your marriage most likely to end in divorce.  Between 10 and 20 years, over 30% of marriages end in divorce.  While I would never suggest that your weight has anything to do with the lack of intimacy, I WOULD encourage you to recommit to being the best possible version of yourself that you can be.
> 
> good luck!



Steve as time goes by I am more and more convinced i am the problem. I think i am unattractive to her any more. Despite the fact i was 100lbs heavier then i am now.  I am so close to dropping a bunch of cash on personal training at Absolute results here in fort wayne. They had a The biggest looser contestant working out there. I have seen the results they can bring. Its going to be expensive but by god ill melt in 6months.. 

Im about to shake things up. Im going to Beat my *** so senseless that when the year is up, no one will recognize me. Im sure that will change things. I hate my self so much..


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## Steve (Feb 16, 2014)

Kframe said:


> Steve as time goes by I am more and more convinced i am the problem. I think i am unattractive to her any more. Despite the fact i was 100lbs heavier then i am now.  I am so close to dropping a bunch of cash on personal training at Absolute results here in fort wayne. They had a The biggest looser contestant working out there. I have seen the results they can bring. Its going to be expensive but by god ill melt in 6months..
> 
> Im about to shake things up. Im going to Beat my *** so senseless that when the year is up, no one will recognize me. Im sure that will change things. I hate my self so much..



Couple things.  First. If your marriage fails, it's not just you.  It's not just your fault.  Certainly, you were both involved.  Which is why I think counseling is a great idea for you guys.

Second, it sounds like losing weight is something you really want to do, but it seems to me that you have some esteem issues that are causing a lot of problems for you.  And I'd bet that until you address those, losing weight isn't going to be the panacea you think.

It just really sounds like talking to a pro would help a lot.  


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## Kframe (Feb 17, 2014)

Steve said:


> Couple things.  First. If your marriage fails, it's not just you.  It's not just your fault.  Certainly, you were both involved.  Which is why I think counseling is a great idea for you guys.
> 
> Second, it sounds like losing weight is something you really want to do, but it seems to me that you have some esteem issues that are causing a lot of problems for you.  And I'd bet that until you address those, losing weight isn't going to be the panacea you think.
> 
> ...




Steve I have had issues with my weight for a long time. Its only recently that I have really started to take it seriously.(not hard to loose a 100lbs, its the other 100lbs that's hard)   Its not just my weight  that is causing esteem issues.  With relationship problems like this it  only adds to the feeling. Getting rejected every day for years starts to make you feel worthless and unattractive. 

My reading on the blogs has enlightened me. A big factor after kids and medical stuff was finding your partner unattractive. That is the one thing I can change. So im going to beat my self silly and make my self look better. I have to do it any ways, what better reason then to gain the attraction of your partner..


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## granfire (Feb 17, 2014)

Not trying to be harsh, mate, but you seem to be a bit centered around your problems.

Maybe with you losing this much weight, your wife is developing issues of her own?
I have been told women can have a lot of trouble losing weight (and kids tend to mess up the metabolism for you, making it even harder). So maybe she has her own fears about being to fluffy, unfit, etc for you.


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## Kframe (Feb 17, 2014)

Gran you may be right.  She is not unhealthy or at a unhealthy weight, so im not sure how it can be a problem? We have not really talked about it. She has mentioned that she wants to loose more weight.   I guess my thing is out side of non existent libido, I don't see a problem.  Could there be a problem?  Hopefully we can have a discussion and have it not turn into a fight.


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## granfire (Feb 17, 2014)

Kframe said:


> Gran you may be right.  She is not unhealthy or at a unhealthy weight, so im not sure how it can be a problem? We have not really talked about it. She has mentioned that she wants to loose more weight.   I guess my thing is out side of non existent libido, I don't see a problem.  Could there be a problem?  Hopefully we can have a discussion and have it not turn into a fight.



Womens self image is totally verkackt. 
You see models who can't spell wrinkle advertise anti aging cream, girls you can drive a truck between their closed legs show you what clothes to wear.
Beautiful women are photoshopped into crotesque images of beauty which resemble Barbie more than anything, reality cannot keep up with that!
A guy's magic number is his football jersey, a woman's worth is tied to her dress size!

If she stays home with the kids, she is a moocher, if she goes off to work, she is a bad mother, leaving her precious children in the care of others. You can simply not win!

Maybe you can help her along in her journey for fitness. Invite her to come to the gym with you (but be advised, there is a huge thresh hold there, some/many women do not like to be surrounded by young muscle bound guys when they feel fat and ugly) and work out. it's not easy to do this with a spouse though, you might need a (female?) trainer for her. 
Getting physical is a mood booster, toning up an aphrodisiac. 
Maybe (with the help of your counselor) you can make this a family project, date night at the gym, include the kids where possible, healthy foods, etc.

But be warned:
It looks good on paper.
I am right now trying this with my family. 
I think I will have better results talking to a brick wall!


ETA:
Have you told her you find her attractive?
I mean, not that that matters a lot  when her mind is made up.
but still, girls like to hear that.

Also, one huge problem with women: they live by the scale far to often. There are often problems when the scales go up instead of down when dieting and working out! It's a steep learning curve to accept fitness and dress sizes over weight as indicator of progress.


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## Brian King (Feb 18, 2014)

K-Frame, I have to echo Grans observations regarding a womans self-esteem and the connection that has to sex drive. Also connected to the drive is if a women feels appreciated, loved, understood, etc. Focusing on yourself is fine but expecting losing weight to make a lot of difference is setting up an expectation that might not be met. The loss of weight can just as easily further sabotage a weak relationship. A gym membership for your wife might work but I doubt it. It could easily be seen as your saying she is not good enough or that you are looking to change her cause you are not satisfiedtype of friction. 

As a Christian I am going to assume that you have leadership in your spirit and soul. Rather than bring her dragging to the gym to fix her, start to talk to her about your dreams. You sir are motivated, but because you know where you want to go (weight loss) and how you want to get there (gym membership) you have part of the why and how, while your wife does not have that information or motivation (yet). She may not love you more for losing weight, if you are lucky and work at it, she will love you more in spite of your losing weight. Coming on all strong will confuse her and perhaps set up a defensiveness cycle that will wear on you or that you will negatively react to. Instead of coming on strong with how you are going to change and you will support her changing I suggest that you start sharing the big picture, your dreams. I am not talking about having a talk and the stress that can bring. I am talking a few minutes here and there. Late at night while drifting off to sleep, a few minutes while doing dishes together, while muting a commercial during a movie on T.V. all of these and many many more are an opportunity to bring her onboard, to start sharing a dream of what the future you two will be sharing might look like. Some examples but come up with your own based on what you both see the perfect future looking/feeling like.

Honey, I heard a story about a guy I knew in high school that died last month. He was carrying too much weight and now his family is struggling. Hearing about Jerry, touched my heart. I saw you and the children when I looked into the mirror. I think I truly saw myself honestly and it has been too long since I looked. I have been attempting to be a better father and a better husband and I REALLY like how it is making me feel. I love you and I want to be here for you. I promise that I will do whatever it takes to take care of my family

Sugar, I saw a couple at the park by the office today. You could just tell that they were so in love. Something about the way they were holding hands while they were walking and the way they were looking at each other. It was like, total commitment, totally engaged in each other. I flashed back to that night we were walking after that show back when we were dating. Honey, lets go for a walk after dinner tonight. I miss sharing that feeling with you. It has been too long since I gave you my 100 percent attention and walked with my stomach pulled in because I wanted you to be proud of me.

 Honey, dinner was fantastic. Let me do the dishes and dish up two bowls of ice cream. You go sit on the couch and put in a movie and I will join you in a few minutes.

Honey, I saw a really cool house today. Someday, we will be able to live in a home like that. There were a bunch of fruit trees in front and looked like a garden on the side. It had two fireplaces and a big bay window. It had a large yard with a big dog on the porch. I can really see us retiring someday to a place like that.

These talks have to be honest and from the heart and for Heavens sake *listen and HEAR *if she talks and shares her dreams. It is about building a shared future. It is about learning how to communicate using a safe subject. 

K-Frame. Have you seen the movie Fireproof? The acting is amateurish and the message is not hidden, but it is worthwhile. The book and movie should be available at your library. Watch it alone and then if it speaks to you act on it. 

Change of subject- It is great taking responsibility but is not helpful to take the blame. There is a difference. You did not start out wanting to sabotage the relationship. You did not consciously gain weight just to piss her off. The language you used above thread is not helping you. A very large part of spirituality is learning how to forgive. It has to start in our own heart first. We cannot blame others but equally we have to see that we did not do evil on purpose but simple got off track, we didnt do whatever wrong, we just did it in a way that could have been done better. How we communicate to ourselves limits and define how we communicate to others. Lord have Mercy on me a sinner goes a very long ways brother. 

Good luck
Regards
Brian King


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## Steve (Feb 19, 2014)

There's so much here that we can't really know.  10 years of marriage and more time in the courtship leading to this point in your life, plus a life time of scars and poorly healed battle wounds.

My opinion (and that is all this is!) is that you have plenty of issues on your own to confront without trying to ALSO "fix" your wife's issues.  One issue that _seems _clear from what you've posted so far is that you and your wife have communication challenges.  A marriage counselor can help you guys with that, if you are both willing to confront the issue.  But outside of that, there is NO WAY for you to really know what your wife is thinking or feeling until she has both the desire AND the ability to tell you.  And it doesn't sound, frankly, like either of you have the tools to speak from the heart.  You need some help.

It also sounds like you guys have some issues with trust. 

Beyond that, if your wife has esteem issues, you CANNOT HELP HER until you get your own house in order.  As I said before, you have to work on yourself before you take on someone else.  What you CAN do for your wife is to encourage her to help herself.  Ultimately, change MUST come from the inside.  You can only provide the opportunities for her self improvement, but you cannot force your wife to confront esteem issues, confidence issues, body image issues, communication issues or any  other kind of issue.  She has to both acknowledge the issue AND be willing and able to confront the issue before any change will happen.  And she needs the "tools" to do it, which again, it doesn't sound like you guys have.  

Bottom line for me, it really, really, really, really sounds like you guys need to talk to a real, live, competent and qualified therapist.  If your wife won't go with you initially, go on your own.  Get help and advice from a trained professional and not from a bunch of strangers (however well meaning and genuinely concerned we might be).  Here in the States, many employees offer an Employee Assistance Program, where you can get in to see a therapist at no cost for at least a few sessions.   A trained therapist will help you identify the root issues at work AND will help you develop the skills you need in order to overcome them.


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