# Should Political/Religious/Orientational Debate be allowed here.



## Bester (May 18, 2004)

I see a lot of traffic on a few hot threads.  Some of the discussion in there is, rather rude and inflammatory to say the least.

Should this be allowed to continue?  Is this really the face people want the world to see?  It seems to me than many peoples petty bigotry is shining through.

Where are the moderators to throw their traditional 'water' on these flames?

Personally, I think a few of those 'debating' have missed a core lesson of their own religions, and that this type of 'argument' shouldn't be allowed here.  It cheapens us all, and seriously distracts from the boards stated mission..."Friendly Discussion" that is.

How long I wonder before this hostile environment starts pushing people away, and we start seeing requests for account closures? The loss of those people will lessen us all I suspect.


----------



## CanuckMA (May 18, 2004)

OTOH, this part of the forum is for non-MA discussions. This issue has been brought up on other MA boards I frequent. Seems that the consensus is that since it is an off-topic part of the board, everybody is free to participate or not in any particular thread. Those threads tend to die out on their own anyway.


----------



## Touch Of Death (May 18, 2004)

Bester said:
			
		

> I see a lot of traffic on a few hot threads.  Some of the discussion in there is, rather rude and inflammatory to say the least.
> 
> Should this be allowed to continue?  Is this really the face people want the world to see?  It seems to me than many peoples petty bigotry is shining through.
> 
> ...


Hello!... The discussions are topic specific; so, those that are easily offended can safely avoid them by not participating. I think it would greatly diminish the integrity of the whole forum if people were not afforded to discuss the things that interest them.
Thank you.
Sean


----------



## xianshino (May 18, 2004)

I think as long as it stays in the study then it is within limits but i'm fairly new and haven't seen alot of the aforementioned "questionable" posts.


----------



## heretic888 (May 18, 2004)

No, I don't think its a problem.


----------



## Cruentus (May 18, 2004)

Touch'O'Death said:
			
		

> Hello!... The discussions are topic specific; so, those that are easily offended can safely avoid them by not participating. I think it would greatly diminish the integrity of the whole forum if people were not afforded to discuss the things that interest them.
> Thank you.
> Sean



I agree with Sean.

I think that the study is a place for educated discussions and debates. Sure, not all comments are educated, and they get heated, but I think that those going in need to be able to handle it. The mods. should only intervene if the thread blows way out of proportion.

I think that lienency in the study is important.

 :asian:


----------



## Bester (May 18, 2004)

Leniency when _*discussing *_a heated issue is required.

But, where is the line that separates "discussion" from "debate" from "argument" from "pissing match"?

Is it truly that important that everyone around you 'know' your positions and beliefs?  

What truly does political affiliation, sexual orientation or belief system have to do with the arts?  Yes, it is a non art area, and yes these discussions do occur on other boards.

A few interesting examples I found while looking elsewhere:
- A debate surrounding Nazi symbolism and fashion that tangents into Internet issues on E-Budo
- The whole "gay marriage" fiasco on several boards
- The 9/11, Iraq and Afghanistan issues again on several boards.

I look up above and see "MartialTalk", not "PoliticalTalk" or "SexTalk" or "WarTalk" and wonder.

Maybe I'm over reacting. I see the majority disagrees with me and that is fine.

I just wonder where all the 'martial arts' talk is these days.


----------



## Tgace (May 18, 2004)

Well, on the "War Talk" issues at least I dont have a problem...we are talking about "martial arts" here and most of them have military roots.

People can only talk about martial techniques so much on a medium like this. I just cant follow "if he attacks at this angle, you respond with this.." type talk too long. Bores the #@!! out of me. This is a place to "discuss" philosophy, history, mentality etc. of the arts.


----------



## Gary Crawford (May 18, 2004)

I agree with Bester,but maybe not for the same reasons.First-I love this site and I would hate to see anything make it go downhill in any way.I think these political and religious discussions have gotten too heated and might cause some potential new members to not join.I made the mistake(I shouldn't have) or reading some of the political threads.I discovered what I wish that I didn't,who is left and who is right.Because at this point in time,because of events that are occuring,politics(and religion) have become very personal issues for many of us.We are at war and there is an election coming up.Reading those threads,I lost respect for a few people that I had respected MA wise(like I said,I wish I never read them).There are hundreds,if not thousands of political forums that are for just that.I just don't think MT will suffer without the political talk.This will just get more heated as the election nears.It took a lot of self control for me  to let some of the posts go unanswered,but in the interest of not pissing anyone off(and I would have!) I didn't post a thing.If the threads continue,that's fine.I know not to read them now,and maybe I should spend less time here.


----------



## Bob Hubbard (May 18, 2004)

I tend to agree.

I like scifi/music/anime/pro wrestling and a ton of other stuff.
I run another forum dedicated to that stuff.
I don't mind seeing an occational thread on it here (hey, it breaks the monotony up right?) but when I start thinking I should add a seperate foum here for the 'non-art' stuff, well.....there be a problemo. 

Now, where the political/religious/moral/social issues are concerned, we enter a grey area.

I don't mind having the discussions and debates...hell, sometimes its fun to 'mix it up'.  I've personally learned alot from both sides of the debate.  Its when it gets to the 'Fire n Brimstone' or 'Im right and your not and I have to get the last best word in' stage that makes me wonder about folks.

We've gotten several complaints concerning the attitudes of several folks in a few threads.  We've lost 2 members so far over it. 

The study was setup so that the people wanting to take a serious focused look at a topic could do so.  We did this because there was concern that the Locker Room drifted too much.  

We don't mind if you discuss various issues.  I honestly appreciate it when someone on the other side of an arguement teaches me something. 

As Tom said "This is a place to "discuss" philosophy, history, mentality etc. of the arts."  Other issues are cool too.

Just remember, when its all said and done, that faceless person on the otherside today might be the guy you see on the floor tomorow.  

Do any of us really want a reputation as a racist, homophobic, bigoted, antisematic womanizing, sexist, marxistic, narcistic weenie?  Definatly hard to fit all that on my business cards. 

Play nice, and keep it professional.  Much easier to follow the discussions and appreciate the insight without the personal shots and needling.

Thanks.


----------



## Touch Of Death (May 18, 2004)

Kaith Rustaz said:
			
		

> I tend to agree.
> 
> I like scifi/music/anime/pro wrestling and a ton of other stuff.
> I run another forum dedicated to that stuff.
> ...


I was just called narrow minded bigot today for using the term "our word". Sucks to be me. :asian: 
Sean


----------



## OUMoose (May 19, 2004)

Kaith Rustaz said:
			
		

> I tend to agree.
> Do any of us really want a reputation as a racist, homophobic, bigoted, antisematic womanizing, sexist, marxistic, narcistic weenie?  Definatly hard to fit all that on my business cards.



Hey, if the President can do it, so can I durnit!    :jedi1:


----------



## loki09789 (May 19, 2004)

No problem with a forum for these topics, just think that moderation, by posters themselves and by mods/admins, should be a little tighter at times.  Maybe a formal warning/suspension/banning continuum review and then some consistent enforcement - especially on these topics - would help.

These topics are really personal and folks tend to be so invested in them that they take topical criticism and differences as personal criticism and differences.  It is sort of like the level of emotional license that people give themselves driving down the road... I would never tell his mother, but my son's first word was one that I use too much while driving


----------



## Cruentus (May 19, 2004)

I think that when the "heated discussion" goes south is when people result to insulting each other, especially through direct name calling, or direct attacks. That's when the mods should step in in my opinion.

In terms of 2 members leaving over the study, all I have to say is that is their problem, not Bob Hubbard's or any of the mods. They are the ones who need to build up a little tenacity. I say this because for one, they don't need to go to the study in the first place. For two, unless they were hammered and called a bunch of names and no one did anything about it, debating is fair game, so what right do they have to complain? This sounds like it may be a case of "these people's opinions don't fit my worldview, so I'm going to leave!" And with that attitude, they were on their way out the door anyways; they would have left over a martial arts "debate" just the same as a political/religious one.

So, that's my feeling. Keep the study, because you get a lot of good traffic and discussions there. Take the "Walk softly but carry a big stick" approach to moderating it. And, if you don't like the debates in the study, then don't go there. And don't worry about people who leave because of the study, because I am of the opinion that they would have left anyways.

Problems solved. :ultracool


----------



## someguy (May 19, 2004)

If you start with debating stuff you sometimes go back and adress specific points people have raised.  They address what you have countered with some oter peopple come in and in the end every body gets mad and bam you got a flame war.  Sort of.
The study probably has the most flame wars simply because of te volital nature of what is being disscussed.  We also learn more about the people we are meeting with.  We also learn something about ourselves.  I realized I'm kind of psuedo-agnostic in a way.  
There does seem to be a lack of women who frequent the study.  Just something I find intresting.  I wonder if that is tied to this.
Most importantly though if I have offended anybody tthat wasn't my intent.  If I offend you feel free to say it and I'll probably correct it if I see that it needs correction.
 :asian:


----------



## Cryozombie (May 19, 2004)

Another problem I see is that people only see a small part of who we are in the discussions... and then decide we are "racist" or "homophobic" or whatnot... 

It doesn't make it so... but if you "Ban" discussions because someone might be offended, we should all sit home with duct tape on our mouthes, because anything we say could be offensive to someone...


----------



## Touch Of Death (May 20, 2004)

Technopunk said:
			
		

> Another problem I see is that people only see a small part of who we are in the discussions... and then decide we are "racist" or "homophobic" or whatnot...
> 
> It doesn't make it so... but if you "Ban" discussions because someone might be offended, we should all sit home with duct tape on our mouthes, because anything we say could be offensive to someone...


Hey!, now I'm offended!


----------



## Cruentus (May 20, 2004)

Touch'O'Death said:
			
		

> Hey!, now I'm offended!



Yea, techno...I can't believe you called TOD a raceist homophobe, and a whatnot!

 :rofl:


----------



## Bob Hubbard (May 20, 2004)

Technopunk said:
			
		

> Another problem I see is that people only see a small part of who we are in the discussions... and then decide we are "racist" or "homophobic" or whatnot...
> 
> It doesn't make it so... but if you "Ban" discussions because someone might be offended, we should all sit home with duct tape on our mouthes, because anything we say could be offensive to someone...


 I dunno....I think some folks need some 'Duct' taping....

Then again....Paul only wrote 1 sentence...it may have already happened....

:rofl:


----------



## Cruentus (May 20, 2004)

Kaith Rustaz said:
			
		

> I dunno....I think some folks need some 'Duct' taping....
> 
> Then again....Paul only wrote 1 sentence...it may have already happened....
> 
> :rofl:



:roflmao:


----------



## Nightingale (May 20, 2004)

if you find a post objectionable, please use the "report to mod" feature.  We try read everything, but sometimes we just don't see a problem post.  Click on the little red thingie in the top right corner of the post and let us know about it.


----------



## Fortis (May 20, 2004)

As much as those threads tend to be fertile ground for people to start throwing around insults, I don't think they should be banned. For every person letting off steam (which I'd rather them do on an internet board anyhow), there are 10 fine posts by people that are giving legitimate beliefs and opinions without "flame-throwing. :flame: " If someone is easily offended by these types of threads, then they should inherently know to avoid them.


----------



## Jay Bell (May 20, 2004)

As long as people act like adults, I think it's good.  Learning the perspective of others is necessary.  Of course...with those topics...


----------



## Cryozombie (May 21, 2004)

haha.  Yes, Jay, I agree.  I admit myself to sometimes acting in an immature manner regarding some threads... and I always look back and go... "what was i thinking..."


----------



## tshadowchaser (Jul 4, 2004)

```
I think that when the "heated discussion" goes south is when people result to insulting each other, especially through direct name calling, or direct attacks.
```


```
We also learn more about the people we are meeting with. We also learn something about ourselves.
```

These two statements about sum up my thoughts on the subject.
Name calling and the "I'm right your wrong" attitude are not discussions, they are specific points of view ment to insult and/or subjugate (sp) a person.
 Two or more sides of a given statement  can be a learning experience.
 Very few people ever change their minds on a subject of religion, politics , etc,. from a discussion, but they may see clearer the other guys point of view.


----------



## Flatlander (Jul 5, 2004)

Didn't even know this thread was here in May.  I just voted.  It feels good to exercise your right to vote.  There should be more polls.


----------



## Feisty Mouse (Jul 6, 2004)

Ditto.  I think the mods do a good job of prodding when things get out of hand.  I am very interested to hear what people think, even when I disagree with them.


----------



## Gary Crawford (Oct 17, 2004)

Fiesty,You do a very good job of being respectful to those you don't agree with,but not everyone does.I have found a member or two who would rather attack the messenger than discuss the message.


----------



## Feisty Mouse (Oct 17, 2004)

Thanks, Gary!  Well, sometimes things do get out of hand, but (to me) it seems worth it for the other discussions we can have.


----------



## Flatlander (Oct 17, 2004)

Above and beyond that, everyone gets a chance to really think about these issues, and get different points of view.  Discussion of these topics is vital and necessary, IMHO, in order for us to test our beliefs, and reinforce our convictions.  As well, it keeps us all informed of current events, and allows us to explore the the meaning behind those issues.  Critical thinking is a good thing.  

Go team!


----------



## Lisa (Oct 18, 2004)

I don't post much in the study but that being said I do enjoy reading the opinions of the other people here on the board.  Yes, sometimes it gets heated and turns into a he said/she said arguement but for the most part the conversations are interesting.  I think it makes us better people to be able to at least admit that there is another side to a story.  Many times I have read threads and have been enlightened by someone.  I may not agree with their perspective but they have given me a reason to re-evaluate my position or at least agree that there is another side.  Thank you for giving me the opportunity to grow. 

As Flatlander said... Go Team!


----------



## TwistofFat (Oct 18, 2004)

Flatlander said:
			
		

> Above and beyond that, everyone gets a chance to really think about these issues, and get different points of view. Discussion of these topics is vital and necessary, IMHO, in order for us to test our beliefs, and reinforce our convictions. As well, it keeps us all informed of current events, and allows us to explore the the meaning behind those issues. Critical thinking is a good thing.
> 
> Go team!


I also think history shows the martial arts developed (in part) to defend country and beliefs (Shaolin Monks for example). I find it very interesting to see what modern day martial artists think about Political/Religious issues and how we react to verbal pokes as a reflection of how we might react to real ones.

There are, for example, some in consumption establishments (er..bars) that look for offense where often, none is intended. MA.com reflects real life...I love it. It seems certain to me that MA's in the 16th century did not agree on a whole host of issues we "fight" about today. We use the web, they used swords...this is only a bit safer.

Regards - Glenn.


----------



## kenpo tiger (Oct 18, 2004)

someguy said:
			
		

> If you start with debating stuff you sometimes go back and adress specific points people have raised. They address what you have countered with some oter peopple come in and in the end every body gets mad and bam you got a flame war. Sort of.
> The study probably has the most flame wars simply because of te volital nature of what is being disscussed. We also learn more about the people we are meeting with. We also learn something about ourselves. I realized I'm kind of psuedo-agnostic in a way.
> There does seem to be a lack of women who frequent the study. Just something I find intresting. I wonder if that is tied to this.
> Most importantly though if I have offended anybody tthat wasn't my intent. If I offend you feel free to say it and I'll probably correct it if I see that it needs correction.
> :asian:


As one of the only women who frequent the Study, I'm chiming in.  There's a few good reasons for it, as we have all discussed in our private forum and in pms:
1)  Most don't want to debate because they feel they aren't equipped to post all of the references that some of the other participants do.  This is usually because women run households and have other things to do than sit on the Internet and surf. 
2) Most don't want to debate because they do not want to be a target for some of those who insist on arguing for the sake of argument.  They fail to realize that 'sticks and stones' is applicable here.  I personally do not take any offense to what is said to me by any of the men here because I don't know them and I could care less what they are saying about what I've written.  You disagree with my opinion?  Too bad.  That's why it's _my_ opinion and not yours.
3) My personal peeve about the Study is that sometimes there are people who do get out of hand and feel that this is a place where they can prostelytize their religious beliefs.  The world is made of many many diverse religions and cultures.  I don't mind reading about another religion if it's factual and sensibly, sanely, accurately, and calmly explained.  Ranting and raving drives me out of the thread, and I will always state that in hopes that a moderator will step in and quell it.

If someone objects to some of the content of the threads in here, then don't come into this area.  I can't stand the threads elsewhere in the forum where it's bantering back and forth.  My opinion, and I stay out of that area for that reason.  There's plenty of information and wonderful wonderful people who belong to this forum.  Use it wisely and you'll benefit.  I have.


----------



## GAB (Oct 18, 2004)

Hi KT,

Well said. 

I think in reality women have more time on their hands, especially when they are not employed.

As far as opinions go, it is nice to read yours.

Regards, Gary


----------



## raedyn (Oct 18, 2004)

What I like about discussing these topics on this board (versus others I've tried) is that the vast majority of the time, everyone here makes an honest effort at thoughtful, educated discussions, and there is generally an effort to listen and understand and inform each other.


----------



## loki09789 (Oct 18, 2004)

raedyn said:
			
		

> What I like about discussing these topics on this board (versus others I've tried) is that the vast majority of the time, everyone here makes an honest effort at thoughtful, educated discussions, and there is generally an effort to listen and understand and inform each other.


Awwwwww, I feel a group hug coming on .

I don't think the problem is the topics of discussion as much as how people deal with the discussion.

If people contribute/respond/start discussions on a topic but don't do so with the understanding that they are laying themselves/their values on the dissection table for examination - doom on them.


----------



## Feisty Mouse (Oct 18, 2004)

GAB said:
			
		

> Hi KT,
> 
> Well said.
> 
> ...


I'm going to have to disagree with you there, if by "not employed" you mean "taking care of house and family".

Oh well.

I think part of the reason more women aren't in the study is... 1) not many ladies on MT in general, and 2) in my own experience, women tend to seek out conflict a bit less than men.


----------



## loki09789 (Oct 18, 2004)

Feisty Mouse said:
			
		

> I'm going to have to disagree with you there, if by "not employed" you mean "taking care of house and family".
> 
> Oh well.
> 
> I think part of the reason more women aren't in the study is... 1) not many ladies on MT in general, and 2) in my own experience, women tend to seek out conflict a bit less than men.


1.  YUP.
2.  Uh-Uh!  Yes they do.....


----------



## hardheadjarhead (Oct 18, 2004)

I like "The Study".  Having been to other forums I find MT is one of the best for political/religious discussions.  The mods have done a good job of keeping the discussions somewhat civil and the intellectual level of debate is high.  Topics  often have nothing to do with the martial arts, of course...but then "The Study" wasn't meant for that.

One of the things "The Study" has done for me is to show me the diversity of political opinion and the level of intelligence many martial artists hold.  I had come to believe that a large number of us were what the public perceived us to be:  Thick necked jocks lacking an education.  While that may or may not be true, I took solace from the discussions here.  They let me know that there were some martial artists out there who somehow convinced the man behind the curtain to give them a brain.

Such a forum as "The Study" will certainly lead to conflict.  We are, if anything, political animals and often combative to boot given our training in the arts.  People have been banned for posting inflammatory comments here...but some of those were abrasive in the martial arts sections as well.  Is it the topic or the agent of discussion?  Think too of all those who haven't been banned but have listened to the adomonitions of the moderators to be polite.  Remember the misses, as well as the hits.

Keeping politics/religion out of our lives is impossible. Will barring it as a topic from MT do so?  Can we discuss the ramifications of teaching martial arts to children with disabilities without bringing up the political challenges facing their parents and educators?  Can we talk about martial arts schools and their insurance rates without talking about tort reform?  Can we talk about self defense without talking about guns and gun control?   When the mods start directing our conversations away from those areas in the name of civility how is that anything different from censorship?

And beyond that--political discussion is a requirement for each of us to claim membership in an informed electorate.  We are a land of diversity and adversity and the only way to hammer out the issues facing us is to discuss them...not squelch them.  I suppose we all could go elsewhere for such discussions but I'd miss those I've come to know here.  They sponsored my membership in that informed electorate.  For that I'm grateful.


Regards,


Steve


----------



## kenpo tiger (Oct 18, 2004)

Steve, You're my hero :boing2: :boing1: -- but you knew that.  KT


----------



## hardheadjarhead (Oct 19, 2004)

kenpo tiger said:
			
		

> Steve, You're my hero :boing2: :boing1: -- but you knew that.  KT




Actually, I didn't know that.  Thank you.

Ooops...is that a spot of rust on my shining armor?  Where IS that WD-40?


Regards,


Steve


----------



## jaymo (Oct 19, 2004)

call me chicken, but i've spent most of my time just lurking here at MT. i don't post often, largely because i want to keep my identity anonymous, and someone inevitably asks the questions that are on my mind--i'm happy reading. this is a little different for me, because i'm actually a fairly outgoing person in other online groups and in real life. 


one thing i have learned from online groups is that much is lost in reading text. sure, we have our smiley faces, frowny faces, bold type, and the like to include while we articulate our innermost passions, but nothing will ever substitute face to face conversation. because of this, i try not to take other's opinions online personally. like anything else in this world, i find a spectrum of cattiness here. i try to keep an open mind about this, realizing that my perception of what is going on doesn't mean that it is really happening.  freedom of speech is just that, freedom of speech-specifically freedom of speech that i don't agree with. we're all so different here, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that personalities will clash, and opinions will differ. live and let live, take what you like and leave the rest, yadda, yadda, yadda.


----------



## Flatlander (Oct 19, 2004)

jaymo said:
			
		

> call me chicken,


OK.  Chicken.  Now, dive in and join the discussion.  A salad is always better with more vegetables.


----------



## jaymo (Oct 19, 2004)

huh?


----------



## Flatlander (Oct 19, 2004)

Your opinions count and we would like to hear them.  So, less lurky, more posty.


----------



## raedyn (Oct 19, 2004)

I *think* flatlander meant discussion is better with more people in the discussion. (If I may be so bold as to translate for him)


----------



## raedyn (Oct 19, 2004)

darn, he beat me to it. He's a quick one, that flatlander.


----------



## GAB (Oct 20, 2004)

Feisty Mouse said:
			
		

> I'm going to have to disagree with you there, if by "not employed" you mean "taking care of house and family".
> 
> Oh well.
> 
> I think part of the reason more women aren't in the study is... 1) not many ladies on MT in general, and 2) in my own experience, women tend to seek out conflict a bit less than men.


Hi Feisty,

I think 'even if they do have a house and family'.

When at home you are not at another location, unable to.

I agree with 'outside' (away and not related to home issues, marriage etc.)open aggression, but at home they feel it is their territory and do get pretty
vocal. 

I have seen both sides of 'Domestic Violence' it is a two sided coin and relative to 'mathematical heads or tails' it is very similar.

Regards, Gary


----------



## kenpo tiger (Oct 20, 2004)

GAB said:
			
		

> Hi Feisty,
> 
> I think 'even if they do have a house and family'.
> 
> ...


Gee Gary.  
There are even some of us who:
1)  work _outside the home_ (although sometimes my office starts resembling home)
2)  raise children
3)  run a house
4)  take a martial art
5)  and teach a martial art
6)  read a little
7)  do some craft/home/other projects
8)  go back to school to finish a degree or get another

I understand the tenor of your remarks, but for the sake of those who might not, there it is.


----------



## Feisty Mouse (Oct 20, 2004)

You go, KT.


----------



## raedyn (Oct 20, 2004)

Interestingly, the women who ARE active on this part of the boards are just as vocal as the men, from what I've seen.


----------



## kenpo tiger (Oct 20, 2004)

Absolutely.  That's because we're scholars as well as warriors, and we know that scholar hides warrior until the warrior is unleashed...


----------



## hardheadjarhead (Oct 21, 2004)

kenpo tiger said:
			
		

> Gee Gary.
> There are even some of us who:
> 1)  work _outside the home_ (although sometimes my office starts resembling home)
> 2)  raise children
> ...



Bravo.

My wife is a school teacher, teaches Spanish on the side to a home school class, runs a large martial arts school, teaches martial arts classes, subs for me when necessary, and is a mother to a young man in college...on top of that she keeps my a** in line.  As for aggression (or assertiveness), my wife is not only vocal in the home but in public as well...though she does have a measure of tact I lack.  

Not many women post to MT, perhaps, but those that do make excellent contributions.  I don't recall any of them writing anything stupid...on the other hand we've seen some men who barely own the English language and still others who can rub a noun and a verb together but can't think cogently.  

Now...if any here want to think I'm pandering to the women, perhaps I am.  Most of my best friends are women, and my heroes are women I have in my life.  I am either a lecherous heterosexual with a sordid agenda, a sensitive eighties male, or I'm fabulously gay and simply want someone with whom to go shopping.  

Or pehaps I'm not pandering at all and am calling it as I see it.


Nah.  I'm gay.



Regards,


Steve


----------



## kenpo tiger (Oct 21, 2004)

hardheadjarhead said:
			
		

> Bravo.
> 
> My wife is a school teacher, teaches Spanish on the side to a home school class, runs a large martial arts school, teaches martial arts classes, subs for me when necessary, and is a mother to a young man in college...on top of that she keeps my a** in line. As for aggression (or assertiveness), my wife is not only vocal in the home but in public as well...though she does have a measure of tact I lack.
> 
> ...


:xtrmshock 

Nah.  You're not gay.  Unless your gi with the lattice insert sides counts...

Seriously, even the guys who have problems expressing themselves in writing on this forum can be open to new ideas at times.  I have yet to run into any who aren't, with one exception and he was kicked off here a long time ago.  Hmm...  maybe he was run off by the ladies...  In any event, I _will_ go to bat for the guys who particpate in the Study because it's always thought-provoking discussion, and one can even learn a little if one reads the posts carefully.

Steve, Careful.  Robertson is in the running for MT Sensitive Man of the Week -- your crown may be in jeopardy!


----------



## raedyn (Oct 21, 2004)

didja hear that, robertson? YOU GET A *CROWN*!


----------



## hardheadjarhead (Oct 21, 2004)

My crown is in my Heart, not on my Head; Not deck'd with diamonds, and Indian stones, Nor to be seen: my Crown is called Content; A crown it is that seldom Kings enjoy.


Okay.  I stole that from Shakespeare.  I admit it.  Its a sour grapes response should Robertson take my crown away from me...which would be tragic, as I just now learned I had possession of it.    

I warn you, if forced to cede the crown of sensitivity...I might cry.  I'm THAT sensitive.


Regards,


Steve


----------



## raedyn (Oct 21, 2004)

so even when it's about sensitivity, the thought of losing to robertson bristles yr macho ego? *wink*

egads. I am encouraging the degeneration of this thread. *slaps own hand* badbad raedyn. too much time spent in the Grill today, methinks. (any idea how long it takes to get up to speed on the word association thread? it's nearly 250 pages long!!!)


----------



## Ender (Oct 22, 2004)

Well I haven't been around much here because of the way the discussions have degenerated into squabbling by a few. Then you have the other few who post OPINIONs and try to pass them off as facts *rme....So I went to some Classic Car Restoration boards, and you know what? There are idiots there too!*L...There was one guy who vehemently insisted that the 1969 Chevy Nova was the greatest car ever built. This, despite the fact that it had a short wheel base and lacked the suspension system required for performance handling. But it turns out that he had one as a kid, so therefore that was his reasoning. Much like alot of people on here. They are familiar with a certain position and will defened it despite proof otherwise.

Well, I attribute it to the "Elvis Factor".  The EF is: that given an adequate sample population size, there will about 8% who beleive that Elvis is still alive. No matter that they have no proof.

So you just go on, identify those in the Elvis group and ignore them. Because they don't listen anyway, and you're just wasting your time.*Shrugs.


----------



## kenpo tiger (Oct 24, 2004)

Ender said:
			
		

> Well I haven't been around much here because of the way the discussions have degenerated into squabbling by a few. Then you have the other few who post OPINIONs and try to pass them off as facts *rme....So I went to some Classic Car Restoration boards, and you know what? There are idiots there too!*L...There was one guy who vehemently insisted that the 1969 Chevy Nova was the greatest car ever built. This, despite the fact that it had a short wheel base and lacked the suspension system required for performance handling. But it turns out that he had one as a kid, so therefore that was his reasoning. Much like alot of people on here. They are familiar with a certain position and will defened it despite proof otherwise.
> 
> Well, I attribute it to the "Elvis Factor". The EF is: that given an adequate sample population size, there will about 8% who beleive that Elvis is still alive. No matter that they have no proof.
> 
> So you just go on, identify those in the Elvis group and ignore them. Because they don't listen anyway, and you're just wasting your time.*Shrugs.


Exactly. Besides which, prodding these guys and then sitting back to watch can be most entertaining.

As to name calling, if that's ever happened to me, I'm unaware of it.  I don't ever view anyone coming back at something I've said in a post as a personal attack.  That's because it isn't, and shouldn't be viewed as such.  You're working in a medium which is extremely difficult to manipulate as well as a face-to-face debate.


----------



## GAB (Oct 25, 2004)

kenpo tiger said:
			
		

> Exactly. Besides which, prodding these guys and then sitting back to watch can be most entertaining.
> 
> As to name calling, if that's ever happened to me, I'm unaware of it. I don't ever view anyone coming back at something I've said in a post as a personal attack. That's because it isn't, and shouldn't be viewed as such. You're working in a medium which is extremely difficult to manipulate as well as a face-to-face debate.


 
Hi KT,

I have not been on this post for awhile, going good though. 
I have to agree with you KT some of the ones (name calling) who are, won't be for long. Good moderation is the key.

I am or was on a post that degenerated and I think it was really not that big of a deal...

I will never be called sensitive by someone who is being nominated for that Crown...But, But I am sensitive, just not that good at expressing on the board with the written word I guess...

Robert is sensitive, overly, I think regarding some things. 
I am going to look at it in another way, 'passion' is the word I would use.

I think HHJH will be able to keep his crown. 
Because in my opinion, 'Passion' is the word.
Regards, Gary


----------



## kenpo tiger (Oct 25, 2004)

Aw, give Robertson a break.  He, and a couple others I'll keep under wraps for now, really do love a good (metaphorical) fight.  Better here than out there.  As for you, as long as you keep a low profile in the kenpo section...  I just read there, for the most part, and try to see if I can pick up anything new.  Interplay among the personalities in there is interesting, though.


----------



## GAB (Oct 25, 2004)

kenpo tiger said:
			
		

> Aw, give Robertson a break. He, and a couple others I'll keep under wraps for now, really do love a good (metaphorical) fight. Better here than out there. As for you, as long as you keep a low profile in the kenpo section... I just read there, for the most part, and try to see if I can pick up anything new. Interplay among the personalities in there is interesting, though.


 
Hi KT, I am being very fair, Passion is very proper I think..

KT said...As for you, as long as you keep a low profile in the kenpo section...

Say What...LOL.. I am pretty low profile, I have not been there in quite a while...
Its all the other persons fault...I am to blame have not you read???LOL

I think when Clyde came in and boomed his presence, I realized how important it was, I guess they thought I was off base...

I have to go relatives just came in the door, they have been on the road for 7 hours...

I will get back in a few days.. Regards, Gary
Ps. I wonder if Clyde is really Robert???


----------



## kenpo tiger (Oct 25, 2004)

I have it on good authority that Clyde is Clyde and Robertson is Robertson.  They just share Larry Tatum's kenpo is all - might even train together.


----------

