# Peak Water



## FearlessFreep (Apr 29, 2008)

To finish off the doom&gloom trifecta of Rising Oil Prices and Rising Food Prices...

From The Crisis is Coming: How Peak Water Could Reshape Civilization



> If you think peak oil is a big deal, then just wait until the peak water crisis is in full swing. Experts say that in many areas aquifers and rivers are starting to run dry as human consumption and other factors are straining one of our most essential resources: fresh water.
> 
> In highly populated developing nations, water shortages and poor access to clean water has been a common concern. Currently 1.1 billion people living without access to safe drinking water. Even so, the problem seems far away in the minds of many who are living in more privileged circumstances. However, that may be about to change.
> 
> ...


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## Sukerkin (Apr 29, 2008)

Ain't it marvellous?!  Just when you think we might have a stab at creating and maintaining a high-tech civilisation and the whole thing comes crashing down yet again .

No oil, no water, no bees = no food == very few humans.  Most depressing.

It's ironic that we've thought mostly about the 'Big Event' catastrophies that could finish us off (asteroids and their ilk) and it looks like poorly bees may be the end of our great rise.

P.S. Does anyone remember a book called the "Death of Grass" by John Christopher (I think that was the author).  That was a "Survivors" type scenario posited on the failure of agricultural cereals.


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## tellner (Apr 29, 2008)

The aquifers that allowed the development of the Prairies and the American West are essentially gone. We drained millions of years of accumulation in one human lifetime. Sorry, six thousand years of fossilized water from the Great Flood _**intolerant speech removed per policy**_. 

Every once in a while some wishful thinking moron, _**intolerant speech removed per policy**_, says that there's just *got* to be infinite water down there somewhere just waiting to be found and save us all from our short-sightedness.

It's exactly the same story as deforestation, global warming, toxic chemicals in the food chain and every other disaster that snuck up on us. First there's derision for any lunatic who could imagine that things would ever change. Then there are the hired guns for the rich vested interests. Then the scientists are Communists and traitors. Then the data are true, but it's *not our fault*. Then there are more rounds of paid lies, trashing the good name of the people with the data, looting of the government coffers by the same people who caused the problem, and finally the whining that there's nothing we can do about it, so there.


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## terryl965 (Apr 29, 2008)

That is great fresh water is going to be gone, So lets see high cost of food and gas and now the same for water. What is next?


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## Big Don (Apr 29, 2008)

tellner said:


> Every once in a while some wishful thinking moron, almost without exception a large "C" Christian


That is some blatant bigotry there.


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## Twin Fist (Apr 29, 2008)

tellner said:


> mouth-breathing Know Nothings.
> 
> Every once in a while some wishful thinking moron, almost without exception a large "C" Christian



wow


ok, moving on, here's an idea, we do mass sea water de-salinization. As the water level rises from global warming, we can lower it by boiling out the salt and drinking it. 

It's a win/win


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## Archangel M (Apr 29, 2008)

Where did the water go? I always thought that matter couldnt be destroyed. Do we have a surplus of Oxygen and Hydrogen now?

Evaporators and desalinaton plants....


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## Archangel M (Apr 29, 2008)

Has there ever been a civilization or generation that DIDNT have some doomsday prophesy? Ours are just based on "scientific" studies rather than Angels pouring out fire upon the earth.


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## The Last Legionary (Apr 29, 2008)

tellner said:


> The aquifers that allowed the development of the Prairies and the American West are essentially gone. We drained millions of years of accumulation in one human lifetime. Sorry, six thousand years of fossilized water from the Great Flood according to the mouth-breathing Know Nothings.
> 
> Every once in a while some wishful thinking moron, almost without exception a large "C" Christian and political Conservative, says that there's just *got* to be infinite water down there somewhere just waiting to be found and save us all from our short-sightedness.
> 
> It's exactly the same story as deforestation, global warming, toxic chemicals in the food chain and every other disaster that snuck up on us. First there's derision for any lunatic who could imagine that things would ever change. Then there are the hired guns for the rich vested interests. Then the scientists are Communists and traitors. Then the data are true, but it's *not our fault*. Then there are more rounds of paid lies, trashing the good name of the people with the data, looting of the government coffers by the same people who caused the problem, and finally the whining that there's nothing we can do about it, so there.


Probably could have saved the obvious anti-Christian bigotry and bias and made the same points. But what do I know?


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## shesulsa (Apr 29, 2008)

_*Admin Note:

Please return to the original thread topic and keep the tone polite, respectful, review our complaint policy as well as our religious tolerance policy.

Remember: if you think a post here is downright nasty or against the rules, report the post.

Thank you,

G Ketchmark / shesulsa
MT Assist. Administrator*_


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## CoryKS (Apr 29, 2008)

Aw jeez, what's the worst that could happen.  So we have the big environmental catastrophe that some on this board _fap-fap-fap_ over, all humans gone, and then the world starts over again.  With sentient cockroaches or something.  And then, eventually, they'll screw it up too.  And then our bloated, fuel-deprived sun expands and engulfs the Earth, rendering it permanently uninhabitable.

BFD.  Our time here is limited, no matter how you slice it.


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## Sukerkin (Apr 29, 2008)

ROFL ... and  I thought *I* was a pessimist .


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## terryl965 (Apr 29, 2008)

Sukerkin said:


> ROFL ... and I thought *I* was a pessimist .


 

Me too, but Corky holds the record now.


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## Archangel M (Apr 29, 2008)

Hes right. Once we all accept it, then we can all stop getting ulcers over the next doomsday prophesy.


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## Makalakumu (Apr 29, 2008)

Me?  I'd like to see me and mine live long happy lives where we are able to prosper and live peacefully with one another.  We'll see the worst case scenario effects of peak oil and water in our lifetimes if we do nothing.  The extinction of the human race may be the only mitigation of the misery we all feel starting with our generation.


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## Archangel M (Apr 29, 2008)

Gonna be hard to do what with all the stuff the doomsday fans keep dredging up. Been happening since when? The Myans?


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## Makalakumu (Apr 29, 2008)

Archangel M said:


> Gonna be hard to do what with all the stuff the doomsday fans keep dredging up.


 
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but are you implying that if the "doomers" would just put a lid on it, we'd all be a lot happier?


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## Bob Hubbard (Apr 29, 2008)

Well, we'll know in 4 years or so if they (the Mayans) were right.


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## Makalakumu (Apr 29, 2008)

Bob Hubbard said:


> Well, we'll know in 4 years or so if they (the Mayans) were right.


 
Heh.  I train by watching Apocalypto now...

Jaguar style!


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## Empty Hands (Apr 30, 2008)

FearlessFreep said:


> To finish off the doom&gloom trifecta of Rising Oil Prices and Rising Food Prices...


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## Bob Hubbard (Apr 30, 2008)

Empty Hands said:


>


Interesting shot, have to tanget a hair and ask where that is.


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## elder999 (Apr 30, 2008)

Bob Hubbard said:


> Interesting shot, have to tanget a hair and ask where that is.


 

I believe that's the Aral sea-or used to be.It's between Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan, and was once the fourth largest "inland sea." (Most sailors call 'em what they are:*lakes!*)


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## Empty Hands (Apr 30, 2008)

Bob Hubbard said:


> Interesting shot, have to tanget a hair and ask where that is.



The Aral Sea.  Decades of severe overuse and catastrophic mismanagement by the Soviet Union and then Russia have resulted in a surface area loss of about 75%.  It isn't even a single body of water anymore, but three lakes, two of which are so salty that fish cannot live there.  The fishing industry that used to thrive there is completely gone, with many former port towns now fronting sand dunes and the fleets beached on the sands.

When people talk about fresh water supplies going away due to mismanagement, this is the kind of thing they are talking about.


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## Big Don (Apr 30, 2008)

Empty Hands said:


>


Reminds me of an essay I had to write in my high school Naval JROTC class, "What would happen to the US Navy if there were no oceans?"


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## mrhnau (May 1, 2008)

Peak water? Hold on, these same macadamia nuts just finished telling us that global warming will melt all the ice caps, right? thus producing tons of fresh water being dumped into the ocean, right? Could they please make up their mind? Are we running out of water or going to have too much? Has anyone ever heard of desalination? Maybe we can save New York City from drowning by drinking enough melting ice burgs! yay!

I do get tired of the hearing of this list of catastrophes that are destined to destroy us all. oil, water, new virus, squirrels... every new discovery seems to put us on the brink and pose some form of threat reminiscent of the Biblical Apocalypse...


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## Empty Hands (May 1, 2008)

mrhnau said:


> Peak water? Hold on, these same macadamia nuts just finished telling us that global warming will melt all the ice caps, right? thus producing tons of fresh water being dumped into the ocean, right?



So all of that tasty ocean salinity will decrease from 3.5% to 3.3%.  So much more drinkable!



mrhnau said:


> Are we running out of water or going to have too much?



Conflating drinkable fresh water and melting ice cap into the ocean water is dishonest.  Both can be true.



mrhnau said:


> Has anyone ever heard of desalination?



Yeah, it's so freaking expensive that the Saudis are pretty much the only ones to do it on a large scale.  You know, the guys living in the middle of a vast desert with no water sources.  It may have also escaped your attention that most of the world is poor, and can't particularly afford expensive desalinated water.



mrhnau said:


> I do get tired of the hearing of this list of catastrophes that are destined to destroy us all. oil, water, new virus, squirrels... every new discovery seems to put us on the brink and pose some form of threat reminiscent of the Biblical Apocalypse...



Pretend that it's impossible that things will change, that we will ever screw ourselves over and cause a catastrophe.  I'm sure that will make sure nothing ever happens.

Hey, I'm sure there were plenty of maroons in the Soviet government absolutely convinced it would be impossible to drain off an entire inland sea due to agricultural overuse.  Look how well that turned out!


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## mrhnau (May 1, 2008)

Empty Hands said:


> Conflating drinkable fresh water and melting ice cap into the ocean water is dishonest.  Both can be true.


I understand, it just seems ironic. I can't decide whether to wring my hands about losing water or gaining water. I'm so conflicted!



> Yeah, it's so freaking expensive that the Saudis are pretty much the only ones to do it on a large scale.  You know, the guys living in the middle of a vast desert with no water sources.  It may have also escaped your attention that most of the world is poor, and can't particularly afford expensive desalinated water.


And that is why we should fund research into cheaper desalination! If indeed we will have a water crisis, should we just wring our hands and cry about our ultimate demise, or should we actually do something? Such as find cheaper processes for desalination?



> Pretend that it's impossible that things will change, that we will ever screw ourselves over and cause a catastrophe. I'm sure that will make sure nothing ever happens.
> 
> Hey, I'm sure there were plenty of maroons in the Soviet government absolutely convinced it would be impossible to drain off an entire inland sea due to agricultural overuse.  Look how well that turned out!


I never said we don't do anything. If we can prove a problem exists, we find a solution if possible! Desalination, reasonable conservation are good options. I don't believe in creating a panic. Works great for selling newspapers and ads for CNN, but it really does not do anything other than upset people. Instead of trying to convince everyone that the end of mankind is at hand, why not try something optimistic, like suggesting alternatives?

Same thing with oil. We know its a limited supply. Don't panic! Fund other sources of energy. Drill more until we can sustain ourselves without it or with minimal usage of it. Then again, that does not work well with groups/people that need an issue to harp against... always need something negative to bring up...


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## Empty Hands (May 1, 2008)

mrhnau said:


> And that is why we should fund research into cheaper desalination! If indeed we will have a water crisis, should we just wring our hands and cry about our ultimate demise, or should we actually do something?



Yes, we should do something...prevent the problem from occurring in the first place!  Then we wouldn't need desalination, which due to simple physics, will always be much more expensive than that nice fresh water falling from the skies and storing itself above and belowground.



mrhnau said:


> Fund other sources of energy. Drill more until we can sustain ourselves without it or with minimal usage of it.



Environmentalists have been saying this for a long time.  They then usually get derided as wacky prophets of doom by those with a vested interest in the _status quo_.  Since most people are lazy, they are going to go with the easier option - believing what is comfortable and what won't affect their lifestyle.  Environmentalists have been saying "optimistic" things for a long time now and not getting far, and the grim pictures are a way of trying to pierce the apathy.  In some areas, things really are that dire - they are approaching potential tipping points where all the money and intervention won't matter.

It would be so much easier and cheaper to do the little things now to prevent drastic upheaval and cost later.  Of course, you can't convince people to get off their butts and turn off the TV at 30 so they can avoid a fatal heart attack at 50, so I don't see much success on this front.


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