# World Tang Soo Do Association



## try81 (Oct 3, 2004)

Anyone out there a member or a former member of the WTSDA?


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## Yossarian75 (Oct 3, 2004)

Ive never been a member but my instructors were, some for 20+ years. My school along with about half the WTSDA schools in the UK left and formed thier own org. We still train the WTSDA curriculum(sp?) with some changes to self defence and Hyung. We dont do the Sae Kye hyung anymore out of respect for JC Shin. I still know them and practice them. Have you started with the bong yet? Plus I hear the WTSDA has introduced a lot of energy(Ki) training, sounds interesting.


Tang Soo


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## try81 (Oct 5, 2004)

Yeah, I am a 2nd Dan so I have trained with the Bong, Dan Gum, and a bit with the Jan Gum.  My all time favorite form is Bassai.  I also like Sip Soo, Ro Hai, and Pyung Ahn Oh Dan.  I haven't been taught Kong Sang Koon yet, but that form looks awesome.

What are the names of your instuctors who trained under Shin?  Have you heard of Master Khan in Great Britain?


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## Yossarian75 (Oct 5, 2004)

Im a cho dan, will be testing again soon. Dan gum Hyung is such a cool form, ive been working on a Jan Gum hyung(Yong Hung) too. My fav bong hyung has to be Bong Hyung sam bu. We dont learn Ro Hai till third dan, as well as Kong Sang Koon, second dan is Chinto. I learned the second and third naihanchi's at Cho dan. Bassai is also my fav Hyung along with Naihanchi cho dan, some great applications in those two. 

Master Khan was my schools master instructor before we left. He taught most of our current masters and instructors and I hear he is very talented and has the meanest Bit Chagi around. The only master I know for sure who has trained with JC Shin is Master Mark Adlington, others and older dan levels have been to his seminars over the years and even crossed the pond to train with him. I do remember hearing he gave his blessing to our masters to teach his curriculum when we left. Our org has schools from other lineages(C.S Kim) in it now which is very interesting, seeing slight differences in Hyung etc. Ive also learned the first two Chil Sung Hyung which are rather nice.

Its nice to talk to someone who does the same stuff as me, Ive found most TSD folks on the net are of the Moo Duk Kwan lineage and thats a wee bit different to our stuff.

Tang Soo


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## try81 (Oct 6, 2004)

JC Shin has begun introducing Qigong to the association.  The WTSDA is divided into 21 regions.  Region 8, the region which I belong to, is the Grandmaster's home region.  It encompasses PA, NY, NJ, DE, MD, and DC.  Anyway, every year Region 8 has a weekend long Dan clinic open to all Blackbelts and Cho Dan Bos.  Each morning at the clinic, we receive an hour or two of meditation and qigong instruction.  Also, each year there is a Qigong clinic in Myrtle beach open to all memebers of the association.

Which CS Kim were you talking about. The one which started the International Tang Soo DO Federation or the Pan-American Tang Soo Do Federation?  Also, is your school a part of an association or is it independent?


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## try81 (Oct 6, 2004)

Master Khan is a very respected master in our association.  I have heard rumers that he may be testing for Yuk Dan soon.  He was actually the Ring Master for my  division (E Dan 17-22)  at the WTSDA World Championships in Orlando, FL in July 2004.  I hate to brag, but he gave me an 8.9, the highest he gave to anyone, for my Dan Gum Hyung.  That score allowed me to secure the bronze medal for weapons.  

Which I thought was a great accomplishment because 1) I had just came out of a five year retirement (because of high school football, girls, etc.)  2) There year 19 people in my division 3) and 4 of them were master Khan's students

Enough bragging about myself, Master Khan is one of the most badass Masters in our association, you are lucky that you had the chance to study under him

I am glad I had found someone on this forum with similarities to my training (no disrespect to Moo Duk Kwan).  Someday when I am out of College (Penn State) and settle down, I want to open my own WTSDA studio.  If KWang Chan Nim JC SHin does not obeject, I want to name it Martial Virtue Institute (Moo Duk Kwan in English)

Tang Soo
WTSDA Dan #025067


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## Yossarian75 (Oct 7, 2004)

Well done on your recent tourney, ive competed with Dan Gum hyung also, didnt win though. Ive had a bit of success with Sip Soo.

Im a member of Scotland Tang Soo Do which is part of the Dragon Black Belt Academy, which is part of the International Goodwill Tang Soo Do Association.

The CS Kim I mentioned was Chun Sik Kim of the ITF

Good idea about opening your own school, I might do the same thing one day. Ive been assistant instructing for a while now and am really enjoying it. 
One thing though whatever you do, dont call your school Moo Duk Kwan. I dont know if JC Shin would object but HC Hwang and his org most definately would. They are in the process of copywriting the name Moo Duk Kwan and are sueing breakaway schools that are using the name. There was a big discussion/argument about this whole thing on the Dojang Digest recently.


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## try81 (Oct 7, 2004)

Really!!


Thanks for the warning.  I doubt JC Shin would go for that. He probably would think I was trying to be disrespectful.  But he is a really nice guy, I doubt he would take too much offense. 

I have bought a few of CS Kims Hyung videos.  I never knew there were two Bassai hyungs.  We only do Bassai Dai, I beleive it is called the "greater form"  Not my opinion, I have just heard it called that.  

Are the Dan Gums we do the same?  Ours starts with a backward stab in fighter stance, folowed by a horizonatl slash in front stance - front kick - horizontal chest slash in fighter stance - horizontakl neck slash in horse stance.  Then the same on the other side.

Do you know the history between JC Shin's and CS Kim's break off from WTSDA.  DO the two of them like each other?  Who would they test under?  I am waiting for the dauy for Shin to advance to 9th Dan.  Is HC Hwang a 9th Dan?


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## Mark Jorgensen (Oct 8, 2004)

Nice to see another WTSDA member here...especially one from Penn State. I myself am a PSU alum and always enjoyed training w/ Master Kaye.

I was promoted to 4th dan master this year at the World Championship...still getting used  to it actually...

Just wanted to respond to a couple of things...

I got to see Master Khan test for 6th Dan this past year along with Master Sharpe...let me tell you they were both extremely impressive...the skil level was phenomenal, especially in Sparring...


I've heard people talk about GM Shin taking 9th Dan...he's already been asked to do it by many other Korean grandmasters here in the US, but has always remained at 8th dan out of respect for his teacher, GM Hwang Kee.  With Hwang kee's passing, many assumed he would take up 9th Dan, but so far he has not felt any need to do so.

Perhaps when Master Beaudoin is tested for 8th Dan, Grandmaster Shin will feel there is a reason, but I respect him greatly for staying at 8th Dan even with the tremendous pressure there has been for him to assume the rank of 9th Dan.

Grandmaster Shin was awarded his 8th Dan many years ago by Hwang Kee, and has remained at this rank ever since...

..but with the past world Championships promotions , we now have 2 7th Dans in the Association as well...who can say what the anwer is.  I can only say that Kwan Chang Nim will move to 9th Dan when there is a legitimate need for it.


I'd stay away from naming a studio Martial Virtue Institute...too many political associations with that you want to avoid, and GM Shin very likely would ask you to name it smething else just to protect you.

I'll agree with what you've said about GM Shin... I've never met anyone quite like him, and doubt I ever will.

BTW...try81...have we met?  send me aPM if you want...I figured I knew all the black belts at PSU, but it's been awhile since I was there....


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## Yossarian75 (Oct 8, 2004)

I think HC Hwang was promoted to 9th Dan by his father before he passed away. Or he might have inherited the rank as head of the Moo Duk Kwan, I cant remember just now.

The Dan Gum Hyung we do are the same. As for the two Bassais, Dai and Sho, greater and and lesser. Bassai sho seems to have been dropped by most TSD orgs but ive been wanting to learn it for ages. Ive only ever seen the Shotokan version. Seems to share some of the same moves as Sip Soo, perhaps why it was dropped.

There are also two Kong Sang Koon hyung, again Dai and sho. Some Karate styles practice both but call it Kanku dai/sho.


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## try81 (Oct 11, 2004)

Master Jorgenson

Hi, it's Tom Yahner.  Nice to see another WTSDA member, I was wondering why I couldn't find any on here.  

Thanks for the info on Grandmaster, very interesting.

I was comtemplating the name MVI out of pure respect, just to let you know that I meant no disrespect to Kwang Chang Nim by using the name.  You are definately correct, I wouldn't even think about asking to use it, although I thought it would be cool to use the English translation.

Are you going to the poconos this weekend?  I will be there competing in all four areas.  I will be doing Dan Gum Hyung and Jin Do.  Any suggestions on what to work on for Jindo?  Master Arteca and Jared Aretca have already given me a lot of suggestions, but it never hurts to get a third opinion.

Nice to see you on this forum, and see you maybe this weekend.  

By the way, I really enjoyed the sparring seminar you gave at the Black Belt Clinic, I learned a lot.

Tang Soo


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## try81 (Oct 11, 2004)

Master Jorgenson

I forgot to mention, I sent you a PM, so check  your inbox when you have a chance
Tang Soo


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## Mark Jorgensen (Oct 12, 2004)

Tom-

good to hear from you...I was having difficulty placing an E Dan in the Penn State area, but it all makes sense now.

I sent you areply, and if you ever have any other questions feel free to ask.

Good luck in the competition this weekend...I'll see you there...
I suppose it's even possible that I'll be one of your judges.

As for your hyung...The best advice I can give is don't try to make any big changes now.

Jared is an excellent competitor, so definitely pay attention to his advice.


The biggest things I can tell you are:

1. Pay attention to stances- not too high, not too low.  Use YOUR best stance, not someone else's ideal of what your stance should be.

2. Stay focused- keep your head up,and look like you know what you are doing, not thinking abou t the next move.

3. Don't rush through the form.  It should have a definite rhythm, that is yours, and nobody else's, but it shouldn't look like you are trying to getto the end as fast as possible. Make sure every single move is deliberate and done with purpose.

4. Make sure that your techniques are thrown with intent and realism.  Too many times I see competitors trying to look pretty, but have no power whatsoever.

5. Jindo is very much about balance, and generating quick bursts of speed and power from a stationary position. It is a form that really encompasses the transition of um to yang and back again, so try to make that apparent when preforming the hyung.


I'm not sure whether it was helpful or not...mostly just do what you have been training to do, and have fun.  Competition is just a game, anyway....


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## try81 (Oct 12, 2004)

Master Jorgenson

Thanks for the advice, especially how I should not rush to the end of the form.  I tend to start out at a good pace, but speed up and rush it as the form goes on.  I will keep this in mind as I go to do my form.

I am training at Master Arteca's studio.  About a year ago I ran into Jared in downtown State College, and our conversation inspired me to get back into Tang Soo Do.  I am really glad I did.  I was out of Tang Soo Do for five years and during that time I dabbled in Tae Kwon Do, Aikido and Jujitsu, but nothing compares to belonging to an association like ours.

Thanks for answering my questions, I have always been interested in the history of the association and Grandmaster ever since I was a little kid.  I am sure I will have more questions in the future.

I am definately going to be at the tournament this weekend.  I love tournaments, I wish there was more of them.  I think I am going to Master Vaughn's Winter Championship this year.  I am having a difficulty switching from regular sparring to tournament sparring.  Master Arteca has been working with a few of the black belts around my age outside of class each week, so I am getting a lot better.  I just tend to leave myself open unless I stay in a sideways stance.

One thing I have been working on is stregthening my kicking muscles, so I can hold my leg up in the air for a long time.  I have been using ankle weights to hold my leg in chamber position for a count of ten, then extending my leg slowly into a side kick and holding for 10 seconds, then back to chamber postion.  I think this will help me throw multiple kick fast while tournament sparring without setting my leg down.


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## coastguard (Oct 14, 2004)

I used to be a WTSDA member in Niagara Falls, NY.... My instructor disassociated himself from the association after my first year of training.  When I moved down here, I looked for a WTSDA school first, but none were anywhere close to me.  I currently train at Miller's Tang Soo Do Institute in southern Maryland....  a very traditional MDK school.  Very different from what I'm used to but i'm learning a large amount of new information every class.  Master Miller is an intense instructor.


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## joshpb (Aug 10, 2006)

Great to see some fellow members of the WTSDA on here!! I started TSD about a year ago and I train under Master William Strong (7th dan) and Master Vaughn Henry (4th dan).

Tang Soo!!


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## joshpb (Aug 10, 2006)

Great to see some fellow members of the WTSDA on here!! I started TSD about a year ago and am currently 7th gup.  I train under Master William Strong (7th dan) and Master Vaughn Henry (4th dan).

Tang Soo!!


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## MSTCNC (Aug 10, 2006)

Currently, I'm a 3rd gup at a local TSD school. Initially, KMAI was a WTSDA school... but, during my absence (last 3-years) they've evidently broken away from GM Shin's organization...

Not sure if it has anything to do with it... but, GM Ji Han Jae began teaching SMH at the school in the last 5-years or so... and the school now teaches both TSD and SMH...

Should be intersting when I return to training in the Fall... as I plan to start training in SMH as well... if for no other reason than getting to train with GM Ji...

Somewhere, there is video of GM Ji wiping the mat with my 6' 5", 225# butt! I was standing there... then (after a loud "snap!" from my wrist) I was staring at the ceiling... I swore my wrist was broken! It wasn't... but it sure hurt for weeks! I guess it's better to have your wrist tore up my a GM... than a 10th gup!

Best Regards,

Andy


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## mjd (Aug 13, 2006)

WTSDA members, greetings from Illinois, Region 5 is in the house.

Trained under Master Schmitt of Region 3 up to Edan, started my own studio in region 5 Carthage Tang Soo Do, hope to be testing for sumdan this fall, if the honorable Master's approve of coarse.

I have some great stuff to tell you, you won't believe this. Out of the Mouth of GM Shinn himself at our Region 5 May Dan test, he spook of being interviewed by someone?? and was answering questions about his bio, he said when he was a kid, his mother brought him to the Seoul once a month, each time he would climb up a tree a watch these monk's do Martial Arts in a court yard and he would Mimic their movements, this was he first training in Martial Arts, at age 20 he joined GM Hwang Kee's gym and was presented 1st Dan because of his skill were already very well developed, he had no formal training or certificates before 1st Dan. There was more but I couldn't here everything he said, he talked low and I have bad hearing, Master Ochs took notes and is suppose to post sometime on the region 5 web site.

Master Shinn never talks about himself, this was like unheard of, everybody was so excited about it, we're all hoping he is writing a bio for publication, would that be awesome.


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