# Swimming as Martial Arts Workout



## FearlessFreep (May 19, 2009)

I know swimming is a great cardio workout and a good all around workout, but  is it a good Martial Arts workout for developing the kinda of muscles and conditioning you need for martial arts?

My wife is a swimmer and has gotten me into swimming now and I told her that I would give it a try for a few weeks and then see how to work it into a workout schedule.  My wife wants to be a good swimmer, I don't want to be a good swimmer but I want to use swimming to improve my martial arts (if it can).

My fear is that the swimming is very time consuming and that while it will give me good cardio and good a good general workout I will be missing in some areas and need to supplement with other areas.

What I need specifically:
1) More endurance/stamina/cardio - a given for all athletes
2) More upper body explosive power.  (I'm not strong in my upper body and need more work on chest and arm strength for power)
3) More leg work.  I do Hapkido mixed in with Taekwondo, a lot of kicks and a lot strength needed in the hips/butt/thighs).

This is just targets, I know I need it all in measures.  My concern is that a) swimming won't give me the fast twitch explosive power need for strikes and that b) swimming favors more upper body, which I need, but I will need to use other exercises (pushups, weight and resistance, etc...) to develop the explosive power needed and I won't be getting the leg work I need.

Top ranked swimmers have great bodies, but they get those bodies with dry land exercises in order to develop the bodies needed to be great swimmers.  Home-run hitters work their timing, coordination, mechanics in the batting cage, but they get those muscles in the gym.  I would love to say that swimming could be an all over workout for 5 hours a week, but I don't know if iy will be the kind of workout I need, and I also don't know how I could tailor the swimming to get the kinda of workout I need, is possible

(I'll also post this to some of my wife's swimming message boards)

Thanks


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## LoneRider (May 19, 2009)

Swimming is a good way to build up general cardiovascular endurance _and _with proper technique can be anaerobic too. For anaerobic threshhold training try swimming four to six strokes per breath as opposed to the normal two strokes per breath.

 Try this workout on for size:

 300 meters warmup (75% effort)

 100 meter sprint (15 seconds rest afterward)
 200 meter sprint (15 seconds rest)
 300 meter sprint (15 seconds rest)
 200 meter sprint (15 seconds rest)
 100 meter sprint (15 seconds rest)

 300 meter cooldown (60% effort).


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## JadecloudAlchemist (May 19, 2009)

You may need to adjust your swimming routine.

For my jogging I work on footwork going side to side,backwards, and so on. You may need to practice kicking in the water,practice moving side to side and backwards. 

Swimming is a great cardio workout and great for endurance but you might have to get creative and tweak it to fit a Martial training.

You may also leave swimming as a Cardio workout like Biking or regular jogging and alternate days of swimming with other Martial training.


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## FearlessFreep (May 19, 2009)

LoneRider said:


> Swimming is a good way to build up general cardiovascular endurance _and _with proper technique can be anaerobic too. For anaerobic threshhold training try swimming four to six strokes per breath as opposed to the normal two strokes per breath.
> 
> Try this workout on for size:
> 
> ...



I think aerobic/anaerobic is orthogonal to muscle development.  I mean I can work jumprope for both by altering the way I use the rope, but neither is going to develop strong pecs 

I think 300 sprint with a 15 sec rest is...a bit much  A sprint ladder would be more like 15/50/75 or maybe 50/100/150 at tops.


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## Jenna (May 19, 2009)

I am no expert so excuse me and but I worry you would be missing a trick were you not to try the pool for your MA-specific training.  Not the same thing at all, and but I used to go to water aerobics (where the water itself provides the resistance).  I do not know if it would be possible for you to use the pool for this though - using the water as resistance is fantastic to build up ANY particular part of body - anything you like, you can try (shoulder height in water) running, pullbacks, jumping jacks, punches, turns, goodness, even forms and kata.  I did try some techniques separately and I found it such a unique and fun way to train MA - the only problem was the odd looks I got from the "serious" swim-cap brigade   I would recommend it - just a little lateral thinking - I think you are more than capable of visualising your MA neck deep in the pool   Naturally the swimming per se has its own well-documented benefits too.  Hope this does not sound too kooky and maybe helps even a little  
Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna


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## FearlessFreep (May 19, 2009)

> I do not know if it would be possible for you to use the pool for this though...



Not quite.  This is a Masters Swim Team ('master' being..'us adults.. : )  So you go and the entire pool is laned off and each lane has 2-5 swimmers based on speed.  So they usually do 1000 warmup.  Lot's of routines of various kinds and then a cool down.  about half the people there are triathlon competitors.  Most of the rest are trying to become faster swimmers, and the rest do it because the love it.  It's an hour and a half of...swimming.  There's not really the space/time to do other sorts of water training there.  I'm probably the only one who approaches it as "swimming as a workout to improve something else" and I'd probably need to talk to the coach to work out a modified schedule/workout if I needed to do something different then what the normally do to get he kinda workout I need, if I need to


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## Live True (May 19, 2009)

Fearless, 
I think everyone has to vary thier workouts and approach things from multiple angles and perspectives.  Swiming is GREAT cardio and good strengthening, particularly if you add fins, swim mits, and other drag and propulsion tools

Something I tried, when I had access to a pool, that helped me tremendously, was doing the laps...and then doing katas, kicks, and punches, in the pool. While I felt a bit silly at first, I was amazed at how the bouyancy made me focus on different things as I moved, and it was also interesting what kind of feedback I got from the water in how I moved.  Water will react more densly than air when you punch..and you can see your punches going in interesting directions if you are doing something wrong.  For me, I noticed that if I didn't keep my shoulders down and elbows tight against my sides (protecting my core), that my punches would go in all sorts of interesting directions.So, something to try, and see if it provides you any interesting insights.

You can also consider swimming your cardio/cool down after working weights.  It really depends on how you approach it and the tools/sets you use.

It's also good for folks recovering from injuries (or, as in my case, pregnant) as it allows you to work the muscles while relieving weight/stress on the joints.

So, it's kinda what you want it to be, but you can look at this as just another tool in your training toolbox.

and...it's fun! BONUS!


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## LoneRider (May 20, 2009)

> I think aerobic/anaerobic is orthogonal to muscle development. I mean I can work jumprope for both by altering the way I use the rope, but neither is going to develop strong pecs
> 
> I think 300 sprint with a 15 sec rest is...a bit much  A sprint ladder would be more like 15/50/75 or maybe 50/100/150 at tops.
> __________________


 
Well you could always try an old Navy SAR School favorite:

25m/50m/75m/100m/75m/50m/25m

That variation repeated several times over was a nice little kick to the stomach as well as another area I will decline to mention as there are ladies persent.


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## stickarts (May 20, 2009)

I think swimming is great and I did it for years, even competing, however, I think the best way to train in martial arts is by practicing martial arts! 
I think swimming is a valuable life skill that everyone should have.
Fitness training is good to supplement martial arts training.


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## LoneRider (May 21, 2009)

Lord knows I agree with you, stickarts. But fitness training ensures that you can do a technique properly. That being said I tend to utilize a lot of Crossfit-esque strength training workouts thrice weekly (with running and swimming 6 times weekly) to keep my body in fighting form and maximize my training time.


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## Kajowaraku (May 21, 2009)

LoneRider said:


> For anaerobic threshhold training try swimming four to six strokes per breath as opposed to the normal two strokes per breath.


 
Technicality: but when doing crawl the normal frequency of breathing is every 3 strokes, not two. That way you'll breathe left and right, and it allows for a more straight, positioning in the water. 

Back OT: I used to swim ( also competitively) in combination with a rigorous karate training schedule. It worked well, since swimming was a way to train the body with minimal risk of injuries. Alson, alternating a day of really hard phyiscal training that leaves you all sore with a day of swimming to get rid of the soreness is a sure way to build up strength and flexilibilty (if you take the time to stretch, obviously). My swimming usually gave me an edge in aerobic endurance, although those that jogged or skipped rope could match that, but more importantly: it helped me to maximise endurance of muscles throughout my body much more effectively. You could probably get the same result in a gym, but it would be more injury prone unless you had a good coach or lots of experience and temperance (not overdoing it). 

Second point: Swimming is great provided you take the effort of learning more than just crawl. Proper breast stroke develops chest, arm ànd explosive kicking power. Backstroke is more relaxed, but develops the arm more fully in combination with crawl, and finally: the ultimate killer: butterfly... Lots of fun if you know how to properly, but it takes both great flexibility and power. I can honestly say that shoulderlocks are alot easier for me to escape from simply because the stretching i got when training for butterfly, it tends to surprise people. However, this does take quite some effort, and I was quite young at that time (like 14 or something), which probably made it easier to gain flexibility and learn proper swimming techniques fast. 

oh, and BTW; i wasn't the only one in my swimming team with martial sports in mind. My coach was a reputable boxer, and a few other guys were into Judo and such, also on national level. WE had a rather peculiar equipe, I must say. We also had fitness training at least once a week, combining swimming with other training such as push ups, sit ups, et cetera. Quite an interesting period. 

So yes, I strongly believe swimming can be a valuable addition, and in fact i still go for a swim if my body needs a workout that eases the soreness of the day before. Works wonders.


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## kaizasosei (May 21, 2009)

I think swimming is an unparalleled workout.  
The greatest thing about swimming is the resistance that the water provides. Firstly it is easy on the joints and overall good for the body, secondly, it trains to move in a continious way.  
  Also training in shallow water is excellent for balance and to understand the generation of power as well as the chanelling the controlled release of that power.  A strike for example must be quick and explosive.  In water, it is even more difficult to bypass the waters natural resistance.  If you practice striking over and over again outside of the water, you can come to the point where certain joints reach their limit and become stressed fromt he sudden violent motions.  In water, you easily reach that level of resistance from outside, the water, whilst the limbs need not worry about controlling the extreme decelleration because the water does it automatically.  
 Also, a real strike must be fast, powerful and continious-very similar to moving through water.


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