# Sacred White Buffalo killed and skinned.....



## elder999 (May 4, 2012)

Seen here :



> ** * **​According to a Fox News report, the extremely rare and sacred white buffalo born last year has been found dead and skinned along with its mother.
> Lightning Medicine Cloud, born May 12, 2011 on a stormy night at the Lakota Ranch in Greenville Texas, was a natural white buffaloan extremely rare occurrence, happening an estimated once per ten million births. In June, a naming ceremony attracted over 2,000 visitors to the ranch, and a report on the proceedings cited beliefs held by some Lakota that the calf was the third white buffalo ever, and the first male in 150 years. Such a white buffalo is tied to the story of White Buffalo Calf Woman, and is the most sacred animal, perhaps the most sacred thing on the planet, to the Lakota people.
> 
> ​




There's just not much hope for any of us, I'm afraid......​


----------



## Carol (May 4, 2012)

:wah:

My ancestors weep with yours.


----------



## granfire (May 4, 2012)

That is too awful for words on many levels.

I hope that hide will bring this Mensch nothing but ill!


----------



## WC_lun (May 4, 2012)

Wow, some people....


----------



## Tez3 (May 5, 2012)

granfire said:


> That is too awful for words on many levels.
> 
> I hope that hide will bring this *Mensch* nothing but ill!




??


----------



## granfire (May 5, 2012)

Tez3 said:


> ??



Das Mensch, vs Der Mensch.

A rural thing from back home to denote the relative worthlessness of a person.
Can't call this thing animal, that would be an insult to any and all critters that populate the world.


----------



## Tez3 (May 5, 2012)

granfire said:


> Das Mensch, vs Der Mensch.
> 
> A rural thing from back home to denote the relative worthlessness of a person.
> Can't call this thing animal, that would be an insult to any and all critters that populate the world.




Oh dear, in Yiddish it's the opposite meaning. http://judaism.about.com/od/glossary/g/whatisamensch.htm

_"Mensch_ (&#1502;&#1506;&#1504;&#1496;&#1513 a Yiddish word that means "a person of integrity." A _mensch_ is someone who is responsible, has a sense of right and wrong and is the sort of person other people look up to. In English the word has come to mean "a good guy." _Menschlichkeit_ (&#1502;&#1506;&#1504;&#1496;&#1513;&#1500;&#1506;&#1499;&#1511;&#1497;&#1497;&#1496 is a related Yiddish word used to describe the collective qualities that make someone a _mensch_.
The opposite of a _mensch_ is an _unmensch_, which means an evil or cruel person."


----------



## elder999 (May 5, 2012)

Tez3 said:


> The opposite of a _mensch_ is an _unmensch_, which means an evil or cruel person."



And this a-hole is _*gonsa* unmensch_.

Might as well have raped the blessed Virgin, or slaughtered the second coming of Christ......

......as ill omens go, this is probably about as bad as it gets, being an act of will and all......


----------



## Ken Morgan (May 5, 2012)

Taking it's hide would be akin to taking a Van Gogh, what the hell would you even do with it once you had it?? What a waste.


----------



## Tez3 (May 5, 2012)

To do that to a young animal and it's mother is cruel enough, to do it to a young animal that meant so much to so many is not only sacrilege, it's a sin. I hope, mixing religions maybe, that karma catches up with those who did this. To kill something like this I can't help thinking there will be payback along the line. 

There was a white stag down in Exmoor not long ago, it was nothing more than a white stag, not very rare, didn't mean anything, beautiful all the same but someone shot it just because they could, no other reason.


----------



## Sukerkin (May 5, 2012)

Not to divert this thread but just a quick insert that the White Stag (and other white animals) has a greater mythological meaning than might be presumed from what Tez said above (they can pass between the 'worlds' of men and the spirits).  It's just that a thousand years of Christianity has more or less washed the knowledge away.  

To some of us, even now, killing a White Stag is a shameful thing not only because of the wastefulness of the act to destroy something beautiful just because you can.  But of course, for a culture who has kept their religious traditions more or less alive, to have a sacred animal so needlessly slaughtered is even worse.

Is the act actually illegal does anyone know?  If it is, then perhaps there is a chance to find out who did this and punish them (tho' likely not as much as they deserve).


----------



## Tez3 (May 5, 2012)

Sukerkin said:


> Not to divert this thread but just a quick insert that the White Stag (and other white animals) has a greater mythological meaning than might be presumed from what Tez said above (they can pass between the 'worlds' of men and the spirits). It's just that a thousand years of Christianity has more or less washed the knowledge away.
> 
> To some of us, even now, killing a White Stag is a shameful thing not only because of the wastefulness of the act to destroy something beautiful just because you can. But of course, for a culture who has kept their religious traditions more or less alive, to have a sacred animal so needlessly slaughtered is even worse.
> 
> Is the act actually illegal does anyone know? If it is, then perhaps there is a chance to find out who did this and punish them (tho' likely not as much as they deserve).



I was tryng to play down any percieved significance with the white stag so as not to make it seem I was comparing it to the obviously greater significence of the White Buffalo. It's not particularly significant to modern people in the way the White Buffalo is, didn't want to seem crass.


----------



## Sukerkin (May 5, 2012)

Not to worry, duck, perfectly understandable and laudable motivation there.  I know that by having a penchant for the pagan mores of my forbears, these days I am very much in the minority :nods:.


----------



## ballen0351 (May 5, 2012)

Sukerkin said:


> Is the act actually illegal does anyone know?  If it is, then perhaps there is a chance to find out who did this and punish them (tho' likely not as much as they deserve).



If it was actually owned by someone which it looks like it was then yes its illegal.  if it was wild and you had proper hunting permits and if your allowed to hunt that type of animal then it would not be illegal to kill an animal just because of a birth defect. It looks like Buffalo hunting is legal in Texas so it would come down to ownership of the animal.


----------



## granfire (May 5, 2012)

Tez3 said:


> Oh dear, in Yiddish it's the opposite meaning. http://judaism.about.com/od/glossary/g/whatisamensch.htm
> 
> _"Mensch_ (&#1502;&#1506;&#1504;&#1496;&#1513 a Yiddish word that means "a person of integrity." A _mensch_ is someone who is responsible, has a sense of right and wrong and is the sort of person other people look up to. In English the word has come to mean "a good guy." _Menschlichkeit_ (&#1502;&#1506;&#1504;&#1496;&#1513;&#1500;&#1506;&#1499;&#1511;&#1497;&#1497;&#1496 is a related Yiddish word used to describe the collective qualities that make someone a _mensch_.
> The opposite of a _mensch_ is an _unmensch_, which means an evil or cruel person."



Ah, sorry.

But yeah, in Hochdeutsch you would be right. It's a dialect thing, and so much worse than Unmensch.


----------



## CanuckMA (May 5, 2012)

Words fail. 

One can hope that the a-hole who did that meets with a similar fate.


----------



## MA-Caver (May 6, 2012)

elder999 said:


> And this a-hole is _*gonsa* unmensch_.
> 
> Might as well have raped the blessed Virgin, or slaughtered the second coming of Christ......



Well they're trying. Stuff I've been seeing on line is at or near blasphemous (to me anyway) and they call it humor. 

Since when has (my) race ever respected the deep core belief's of another's? Look at what the settler's did to the native population when they came across the Atlantic? Less than 200 years too. Call it progress, it's the rape of the natural world and the people who lived and honored it. 

Ahhh what does it matter? Sacred and spiritual stuff is just nonsense. Science and technological progress is what counts and if any living creature gets in the way... kill it and mount it on the wall or a museum for study. 

Or even better... leave thousands of stripped carcasses where they fell to rot in the sun.


----------



## Sukerkin (May 6, 2012)

Having a bad time, mate?  I know times have been tough lately but don't let despair ride you like that (hard as it is to resist sometimes).

Anyhoo, 'Spiritual stuff' *is* nonsense, Caver :chuckles:.  The credence people give it is not, however :nods:.  

Even a once agnostic-now-atheist like me will, most of the time, not go out of my way to offend religious people (unless their views are just too outrageous to be borne in silence).  Sadly not everyone feels that way and those with strong religious views are often the worst offenders if belief systems start butting heads.  That raises a thought about the villains who slaughtered the creature venerated by the Indians - could it be more than just mindless thuggery?  :shakes head:  Nah, that road leads to baseless conspiracies and I can't see that anyone would know enough about the mythos to know what doing such a thing meant and still go ahead and do it.


----------



## granfire (May 6, 2012)

MA-Caver said:


> Well they're trying. Stuff I've been seeing on line is at or near blasphemous (to me anyway) and they call it humor.
> 
> Since when has (my) race ever respected the deep core belief's of another's? Look at what the settler's did to the native population when they came across the Atlantic? Less than 200 years too. Call it progress, it's the rape of the natural world and the people who lived and honored it.
> 
> ...




The millions of slaughtered buffalo......I am sure the people allowing it to happen had a vague idea that it would have a profound impact on the plains tribes.

However, killing the white buffalo that was privately owned and revered as holy...
As elder put it, like raping the Virgin Mary. 
Even if you don't regard the animal as spiritually important, there is still the vile act of killing somebody elses animal on their own property.
Not one, but twice....


----------



## Carol (May 6, 2012)

granfire said:


> The millions of slaughtered buffalo......I am sure the people allowing it to happen had a vague idea that it would have a profound impact on the plains tribes.
> 
> However, killing the white buffalo that was privately owned and revered as holy...
> As elder put it, like raping the Virgin Mary.
> ...



And an extremely rare being at that.

I would hope that staunch, unquestioning obedience to an ideology doesn't warrant a dismissal of all logical thought and reason...regardless of what one has been taught, eh?


----------



## shesulsa (May 7, 2012)

ballen0351 said:


> If it was actually owned by someone which it looks like it was then yes its illegal.  if it was wild and you had proper hunting permits and if your allowed to hunt that type of animal then it would not be illegal to kill an animal just because of a birth defect. It looks like Buffalo hunting is legal in Texas so it would come down to ownership of the animal.



Are anyone other than Lakota allowed to hunt on Lakota land? Was the animal ON Lakota land?


----------



## granfire (May 7, 2012)

shesulsa said:


> Are anyone other than Lakota allowed to hunt on Lakota land? Was the animal ON Lakota land?



As I understand it it was on a privately owned ranch or farm. really does not matter who owns it, it was not on the open range.


----------



## Tez3 (May 7, 2012)

What I find more worrying than targeted attacks or conspiracies is that more and more commonly these days such outrages are greeted with a shrug of the shoulders and 'whatever'. It's not even a lack of respect, it's the lack of knowing that some things such as people's property, beliefs etc should be respected. it's a general ennui that is taking over. If you point out that dropping litter in the street is wrong ( illegal here too) you will be looked at in amazement, it's not just 'young' people either. One of my pet hates is able bodied people who park their cars in disabled people places, remonstrate with them and they want to know what it has to do with you. Tell people that a sacred object like the buffalo has been destroyed and you will get a blank look..ie 'what's it got to do with me?' they ask. A complete lack of interest in anything is getting to be and more the norm now.
"What it got to do with me?'' well quite a lot actually, the White Buffalo isn't from my religion but if people don't respect that are they going to respect items or beliefs from my religion? Are they going to respect anything at all about others beliefs? At what point will they realise than this attitude leads to those who really do want to 'take over the world' being able to, just by the sheer lack of interest and effort of people to actually take some responsibility for themselves and for their society?


----------



## granfire (May 7, 2012)

The people who do not care deserve to have the thinking done for them.

Too bad it will suck for the rest of us.


----------



## Tez3 (May 7, 2012)

Sadly I think they need to be taught how to think and care, too much parenting is now 'whatever'. This goes back a couple of generations now, it will continue and as Granfire says, it _will_ suck for us.


----------



## RandomPhantom700 (May 7, 2012)

Given how rare a white buffalo apparently is, how valuable would its hide be to relevant markets?  I'm guessing that whoever killed and skinned the beasts was probably motivated by pure greed.


----------



## Brian R. VanCise (May 7, 2012)

Horrible!  Just horrible!


----------



## Tez3 (May 7, 2012)

RandomPhantom700 said:


> Given how rare a white buffalo apparently is, how valuable would its hide be to relevant markets? I'm guessing that whoever killed and skinned the beasts was probably motivated by pure greed.



More than likely, another symptom of society, the 'greed is good' thought.


----------



## aedrasteia (May 7, 2012)

someone who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.

the hungry ghost; someone who has cursed his own soul.


----------



## granfire (May 7, 2012)

RandomPhantom700 said:


> Given how rare a white buffalo apparently is, how valuable would its hide be to relevant markets?  I'm guessing that whoever killed and skinned the beasts was probably motivated by pure greed.




I have not followed up on it, but I read that at least one ranch offered 'white buffalo hunts'

However, it seemed that those animals where not naturally occurring, but engineered by man. 
That would take the value of the white hide away to an extend.


----------



## Buka (May 7, 2012)

elder999 said:


> Seen here :
> 
> 
> 
> There's just not much hope for any of us, I'm afraid......[/COLOR][/LEFT]



As long as there are those of us who will face these monsters, there will always be hope.


----------

