# Another wall bag thread



## yak sao (May 24, 2019)

While looking online for wall bags, I noticed various videos people had put out for wall back training.

The stuff I was taught was fairly basic stuff, single punch, double punches, triple punches, punching with a stance shift

What are some drills that you guys like to do on the wall bag?


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## jobo (May 24, 2019)

8m struggling to see the point of wall bags to be honest, there archaic  tech from before they invented the heavy bag and theres no reason for them unless you dont have access to a heavy bag.

there only benifit I can see is as a measure of punching power, that is, if you can hit a wall bag at full power and not break your hand then theres something wrong with your punching power.

and I've no idea how you practise hooks and and stomach  punches with them, putting gloves on and punching a tree a least gives some variation on punch techniques


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## wckf92 (May 24, 2019)

jobo said:


> 8m struggling to see the point of wall bags to be honest, there archaic  tech from before they invented the heavy bag and theres no reason for them unless you dont have access to a heavy bag.
> 
> there only benifit I can see is as a measure of punching power, that is, if you can hit a wall bag at full power and not break your hand then theres something wrong with your punching power.



Wall bags train your horse. Hand conditioning and punching structure is a by product. 
Wall bags take up less space.
Wall bags are inexpensive.
Wall bags are easily adapted to level of conditioning. You can quickly refill it with different fill to match your training goals.


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## jobo (May 24, 2019)

wckf92 said:


> Wall bags train your horse. Hand conditioning and punching structure is a by product.
> Wall bags take up less space.
> Wall bags are inexpensive.
> Wall bags are easily adapted to level of conditioning. You can quickly refill it with different fill to match your training goals.


I haven't got a horse ..? if you mean they train you to punch whilst holding a totally  ridiculous fighting stance, then there practical application is obvious ie non

if by hand conditioning you mean chronic arthritis when your older, il pass, any one with any sense use hand wraps and at least light gloves when punching a heavy bag, punching a thin bag rice hung   on a wall at anything approach full power seem ridiculously  reckless.


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## wckf92 (May 24, 2019)

jobo said:


> I haven't got a horse ..? if you mean they train you to punch whilst holding a totally  ridiculous fighting stance, then there practical application is obvious ie non
> 
> if by hand conditioning you mean chronic arthritis when your older, il pass, any one with any sense use hand wraps and at least light gloves when punching a heavy bag, punching a thin bag rice hung   on a wall at anything approach full power seem ridiculously  reckless.



Alrighty then...seems like you have it all figured out.  Have a good life.


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## jobo (May 24, 2019)

wckf92 said:


> Alrighty then...seems like you have it all figured out.  Have a good life.


you mean a good life with full functioning  hands, yes il try


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## wckf92 (May 24, 2019)

jobo said:


> you mean a good life with full functioning  hands, yes il try



Excellent. Good luck.


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## yak sao (May 24, 2019)

A classic example of why the Wing Chun forum is dying.
We're unable to have a conversation about the art we practice without being told we don't have a clue.
I miss the days when we were allowed to wallow in our ignorance.


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## jobo (May 24, 2019)

yak sao said:


> A classic example of why the Wing Chun forum is dying.
> We're unable to have a conversation about the art we practice without being told we don't have a clue.
> I miss the days when we were allowed to wallow in our ignorance.


I suspect its dying as wing Chun is dying, you could reasonably ask why that is so, but the answer is fairly obvious, its stuck in the past typified by punching rice bags and kicking ch7ks of wood


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## Highlander (May 24, 2019)

jobo said:


> I haven't got a horse ..? if you mean they train you to punch whilst holding a totally  ridiculous fighting stance, then there practical application is obvious ie non
> 
> if by hand conditioning you mean chronic arthritis when your older, il pass, any one with any sense use hand wraps and at least light gloves when punching a heavy bag, punching a thin bag rice hung   on a wall at anything approach full power seem ridiculously  reckless.



To claim you don't have a fighting stance is like claiming you breath without your lungs. 

And thanks to my years of wall bag and heavy bag training I very rarely use gloves or wraps. Because I've taking the time to properly strengthen my wrist and hands.
Just because you lack the understanding of the tool doesnt make it useless. It just makes it useless to you


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## yak sao (May 24, 2019)

jobo said:


> I suspect its dying as wing Chun is dying, you could reasonably ask why that is so, but the answer is fairly obvious, its stuck in the past typified by punching rice bags and kicking ch7ks of wood



see, now there you go again. Maybe we like beating our wood and playing with our long poles.


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## Highlander (May 24, 2019)

yak sao said:


> While looking online for wall bags, I noticed various videos people had put out for wall back training.
> 
> The stuff I was taught was fairly basic stuff, single punch, double punches, triple punches, punching with a stance shift
> 
> What are some drills that you guys like to do on the wall bag?


All these drills but at very close ranch. Really works short power generation, body unity, and stance.


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## yak sao (May 24, 2019)

Highlander said:


> All these drills but at very close ranch. Really works short power generation, body unity, and stance.



I think autocorrect got you, unless you're a cowboy, then my apologies.


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## Highlander (May 24, 2019)

yak sao said:


> I think autocorrect got you, unless you're a cowboy, then my apologies.


I stand by what I said. Train this on a ranch or don't even bother


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## yak sao (May 24, 2019)

Highlander said:


> I stand by what I said. Train this on a ranch or don't even bother



gotcha pardner


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## Tony Dismukes (May 24, 2019)

wckf92 said:


> Wall bags train your horse.





Highlander said:


> I stand by what I said. Train this on a ranch or don't even bother


Makes sense.


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## yak sao (May 24, 2019)

Tony Dismukes said:


> Makes sense.



yeah, there's no arguing with that kind of logic.


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## Buka (May 24, 2019)

yak sao said:


> yeah, there's no arguing with that kind of logic.



Why I never use logic.


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## hoshin1600 (May 24, 2019)

I had one in my dojo at floor level for training my toe kicks.  Was great until my instructor made a visit and toe kicked the bag through the 3/4 drywall behind it. Lesson learned back it with 3/4 plywood.


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## Deleted member 39746 (May 24, 2019)

Running at it might work, seems fun to do anyway.


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## Danny T (May 24, 2019)

yak sao said:


> While looking online for wall bags, I noticed various videos people had put out for wall back training.
> 
> The stuff I was taught was fairly basic stuff, single punch, double punches, triple punches, punching with a stance shift
> 
> What are some drills that you guys like to do on the wall bag?


3 Count-3 Count-5 Count
5 Count-5 Count-7 Count
20 second speed punching
High line-Mid line-High line punching
High-High-Mid
Mid-High-Mid
Mid-Mid-High


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## jobo (May 24, 2019)

Highlander said:


> To claim you don't have a fighting stance is like claiming you breath without your lungs.
> 
> And thanks to my years of wall bag and heavy bag training I very rarely use gloves or wraps. Because I've taking the time to properly strengthen my wrist and hands.
> Just because you lack the understanding of the tool doesnt make it useless. It just makes it useless to you


punching a wall bag hasn't strengthen  your hands, your fingers/ wrist are just as likely to break as anyone elses, it will however have made you more likely to develop arthritis.  that what I mean about out of time nonsense

and I didn5 say I dont have a fighting stance,  but any stance is a fighting stance if you fight from that position, just some are better than others,


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## wckf92 (May 24, 2019)

jobo said:


> punching a wall bag hasn't strengthen  your hands, your fingers/ wrist are just as likely to break as anyone elses, it will however have made you more likely to develop arthritis.  that what I mean about out of time nonsense


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## Highlander (May 25, 2019)

jobo said:


> punching a wall bag hasn't strengthen  your hands, your fingers/ wrist are just as likely to break as anyone elses, it will however have made you more likely to develop arthritis.  that what I mean about out of time nonsense


Do a quick Google on Wolff's Law.


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## jobo (May 25, 2019)

Highlander said:


> Do a quick Google on Wolff's Law.


I supose I shouldnt be suprised 5hat people advocating archaic  and harmful practises should cite an archaic  medical law, that modern science has shown not to be a " law " at all,and even if you take it at face value, it doesn't come close to suggesting that regularly punching a wall will keep on strengthen the bone in definitely  or ignore the rather obvious side effect that it will wreck the joints.  so even if the strengthening occurs at all, you would end up with strong and otherwise useless hands,

if 5here was any authenticity to 5his then boxers who have the best strengh and condition coaches availqble would be doing it, to prevent the not infrequent breaking of bones 5hat have big fights cancelled. 8n fact it 5he principle applied they wouldn't be breaking bones at all.
 to believe that 1800s ma gurus  or scientists know more about anatomy  that current exsperts is delutional


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## Danny T (May 25, 2019)

Highlander said:


> Do a quick Google on Wolff's Law.


Wolff's Law is limited. Bone will increase in density with loading. That is true but there are limitations. 
Punching on a wall bag isn't the same a punching the wall. I'm sure you know that, others may not.
If you like the gains you get from using a wall bag great, obviously others are not getting the same results as you. I've been using a wall bag for over 40 years 3-4 times a week. Keeps the skin tough and I punch with a tightly compressed yet relaxed fist. I have no concerns with my hands.


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## yak sao (May 25, 2019)

Danny T said:


> Wolff's Law is limited. Bone will increase in density with loading. That is true but there are limitations.
> Punching on a wall bag isn't the same a punching the wall. I'm sure you know that, others may not.
> If you like the gains you get from using a wall bag great, obviously others are not getting the same results as you. I've been using a wall bag for over 40 years 3-4 times a week. Keeps the skin tough and I punch with a tightly compressed yet relaxed fist. I have no concerns with my hands.



Yeah, it all comes down to using common sense and listening to our bodies.


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## Highlander (May 25, 2019)

jobo said:


> I supose I shouldnt be suprised 5hat people advocating archaic  and harmful practises should cite an archaic  medical law, that modern science has shown not to be a " law " at all,and even if you take it at face value, it doesn't come close to suggesting that regularly punching a wall will keep on strengthen the bone in definitely  or ignore the rather obvious side effect that it will wreck the joints.  so even if the strengthening occurs at all, you would end up with strong and otherwise useless hands,
> 
> if 5here was any authenticity to 5his then boxers who have the best strengh and condition coaches availqble would be doing it, to prevent the not infrequent breaking of bones 5hat have big fights cancelled. 8n fact it 5he principle applied they wouldn't be breaking bones at all.
> to believe that 1800s ma gurus  or scientists know more about anatomy  that current exsperts is delutional


Wolffs law isnt out dated at all. Its actually the base of alot of physical rehabilitation programs. And it also explains why boxers break so many bones. When boxers use wraps and pads on their hands when fighting it actually causes the bones and muscles to become weaker because they rely on the extra structure. You can argue this all you want but you're literally going against science


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## jobo (May 25, 2019)

Highlander said:


> Wolffs law isnt out dated at all. Its actually the base of alot of physical rehabilitation programs. And it also explains why boxers break so many bones. When boxers use wraps and pads on their hands when fighting it actually causes the bones and muscles to become weaker because they rely on the extra structure. You can argue this all you want but you're literally going against science


ok show me some science that punching a wall bag has lead to a measurable 8ncrease 8n bone density?

and show me some more science that Antony Joshua  has weak wrists


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## Highlander (May 25, 2019)

Danny T said:


> Wolff's Law is limited. Bone will increase in density with loading. That is true but there are limitations.
> Punching on a wall bag isn't the same a punching the wall. I'm sure you know that, others may not.
> If you like the gains you get from using a wall bag great, obviously others are not getting the same results as you. I've been using a wall bag for over 40 years 3-4 times a week. Keeps the skin tough and I punch with a tightly compressed yet relaxed fist. I have no concerns with my hands.


The law states that bones will adapt to stress placed on them. So you don't have to punch a wall. That would be silly. But, punching the wall bag or even a heavy bag without any wraps causes the bones and surrounding tissues stress that they adapt to over time. Just like muscles respond to stress. They've  done experiments on tennis player's humerual and radial bones to study this law. Since tennis players only use the one arm, they can be used as their on control group. They found that the bones in the arm used to play were stronger and denser than the no dominant arm.
You have the results from punching just like I do. The skin around your knuckles is tougher than average. The bones are too


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## Highlander (May 25, 2019)

jobo said:


> ok show me some science that punching a wall bag has lead to a measurable 8ncrease 8n bone density?
> and show me some more science that Antony Joshua  has weak wrists


Glady, we must be able to back up our point of view. Otherwise were just talking out our *ss... right


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## jobo (May 25, 2019)

Highlander said:


> Glady, we must be able to back up our point of view. Otherwise were just talking out our *ss... right


they are about tennis players who dont at first seem to have been punching walls.

that exercise strengthen bone is not in dispute, that punching walls does is.

so where this science you claim to be using on the topic of wall bags

and you've not even attempted to bag up your claim that boxer have weak wrists


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## wckf92 (May 25, 2019)

jobo said:


> they are about tennis players who dont at first seem to have been punching walls.
> 
> that exercise strengthen bone is not in dispute, that punching walls does is.
> 
> ...



Punching walls??? Nobody is punching walls.
Wall bag training is not punching walls.


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## jobo (May 25, 2019)

wckf92 said:


> Punching walls??? Nobody is punching walls.
> Wall bag training is not punching walls.


if I punch the nose on a horse I've still punched a horse


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## Highlander (May 25, 2019)

jobo said:


> they are about tennis players who dont at first seem to have been punching walls.
> 
> that exercise strengthen bone is not in dispute, that punching walls does is.
> 
> ...


I'm not saying boxers have weak wrist. I'm saying *fighters* who only ever punch with a wrap or glove on never learn proper body alignment and never properly strengthen the supporting muscles of the wrist and hands. So when they get in a fight without gloves they end up breaking bones. Happened to Mike Tyson. If you wear a knee brace on a perfectly healthy knee every time you run, than one day try and run without it, you'll more than likely hurt your knee. Because. Its. Weak. It never learned to stabilize itself.

As far as those studies not being about punching. See the attachment. 
You can argue this point till you're blue in the face, but I've given actual scientific papers to look at and read. 

Anyone want to talk about wall bag drills?


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## Highlander (May 25, 2019)

jobo said:


> if I punch the nose on a horse I've still punched a horse


Lol stay scientific Jobo


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## Highlander (May 25, 2019)

Danny T said:


> Wolff's Law is limited. Bone will increase in density with loading. That is true but there are limitations.
> Punching on a wall bag isn't the same a punching the wall. I'm sure you know that, others may not.
> If you like the gains you get from using a wall bag great, obviously others are not getting the same results as you. I've been using a wall bag for over 40 years 3-4 times a week. Keeps the skin tough and I punch with a tightly compressed yet relaxed fist. I have no concerns with my hands.


Danny brought up a great point here for any beginners looking to do some wall bag training. Make sure you don't hang your bag directly on the wall. Build a mount for it with plywood and 2×4. This allows the bag to have some 'give' to it and it won't rattle the joints


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## yak sao (May 25, 2019)

jobo said:


> and you've not even attempted to bag up your claim that boxer have weak wrists



You


Highlander said:


> Anyone want to talk about wall bag drills?



I wanted to talk about wall bag drills, but all this talk about horses I'm not even sure if I'm on the right thread anymore.


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## Gerry Seymour (May 25, 2019)

jobo said:


> ok show me some science that punching a wall bag has lead to a measurable 8ncrease 8n bone density?
> 
> and show me some more science that Antony Joshua  has weak wrists


I'm unclear where in that post where anything was said about wall bags.


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## Gerry Seymour (May 25, 2019)

Highlander said:


> Lol stay scientific Jobo


Good luck with that.


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## jobo (May 25, 2019)

Highlander said:


> I'm not saying boxers have weak wrist. I'm saying *fighters* who only ever punch with a wrap or glove on never learn proper body alignment and never properly strengthen the supporting muscles of the wrist and hands. So when they get in a fight without gloves they end up breaking bones. Happened to Mike Tyson. If you wear a knee brace on a perfectly healthy knee every time you run, than one day try and run without it, you'll more than likely hurt your knee. Because. Its. Weak. It never learned to stabilize itself.
> 
> As far as those studies not being about punching. See the attachment.
> You can argue this point till you're blue in the face, but I've given actual scientific papers to look at and read.
> ...


no you said fighter get weaker as they use gloves and wraps, that's what you need to evidence

you said you had science about wall bags not tennis rackets, one really doesn't prove the other. I could put up a paper about sunburn and it would be just as relevant as your science


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## jobo (May 25, 2019)

gpseymour said:


> I'm unclear where in that post where anything was said about wall bags.


I said punching wall bags doesn't strenth your fingers he said it does, then he abandoned wall bags and started on tennis rackets and knees braces, in fact an6 thing but wall bags


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## Gerry Seymour (May 25, 2019)

jobo said:


> I said punching wall bags doesn't strenth your fingers he said it does, then he abandoned wall bags and started on tennis rackets and knees braces, in fact an6 thing but wall bags


Yeah, you don't get to put your priorities on another's posts, mate. If you respond to their post, it should be (wait for it) a response to their post.


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## jobo (May 25, 2019)

gpseymour said:


> Yeah, you don't get to put your priorities on another's posts, mate. If you respond to their post, it should be (wait for it) a response to their post.


I think I can, but that post was a furtherance of the discussion and needs to be read and replied to in that context


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## Gerry Seymour (May 25, 2019)

jobo said:


> I think I can, but that post was a furtherance of the discussion and needs to be read and replied to in that context


Or you could reply to a post that contains the thing you’re replying about.


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## yak sao (May 25, 2019)

jobo said:


> I said punching wall bags doesn't strenth your fingers he said it does, then he abandoned wall bags and started on tennis rackets and knees braces, in fact an6 thing but wall bags



See you keep saying this b*******. No where does he say it strengthens his fingers. You build these stupid *** straw man arguments.... you don't approve of wall bags we get it.
After listening to you for the last two pages I'm ready to bang my head against the wall.... minus the wall bag for protection.


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## Highlander (May 25, 2019)

jobo said:


> I think I can, but that post was a furtherance of the discussion and needs to be read and replied to in that context


You shut the thread down with the very first response. The OP was asking for drills, not for people's opinions on wall bags. 

Make no mistake, I didn't take time out of my life to respond for your benefit. I'm putting up this info for the people coming to this thread looking for information. If you lack the power of deduction that's not on me. 
To bring it back to our horse theme....
You can lead a horse to water, but you cant make him drink.


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## yak sao (May 25, 2019)

yak sao said:


> You
> .



I have no idea what happened on that above post , I'm sure I tried to post something very clever but it ended up a one word response, which is like the exact opposite of clever.


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## jobo (May 25, 2019)

Highlander said:


> You shut the thread down with the very first response. The OP was asking for drills, not for people's opinions on wall bags.
> 
> Make no mistake, I didn't take time out of my life to respond for your benefit. I'm putting up this info for the people coming to this thread looking for information. If you lack the power of deduction that's not on me.
> To bring it back to our horse theme....
> You can lead a horse to water, but you cant make him drink.


that's exactly why you tried to respond, clearly it wasnt for my benifit, as I asked for the scientific evidence you said you had for wall bags and boxers weak wrists.

you really shouldnt claim to have science on your side with out checking first.

tennis


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## jobo (May 25, 2019)

gpseymour said:


> Or you could reply to a post that contains the thing you’re replying about.


I was pointing it DIDNT contain the things he had promised


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## Highlander (May 25, 2019)

jobo said:


> I supose I shouldnt be suprised 5hat people advocating archaic  and harmful practises should cite an archaic  medical law, that modern science has shown not to be a " law "





jobo said:


> that exercise strengthen bone is not in dispute



Um...


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## jobo (May 25, 2019)

Highlander said:


> Um...


it does in certain bones in certain circumstanceI in certain individuals  but but not nessersarliy in accordance with wolffs law


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## Highlander (May 25, 2019)

jobo said:


> that's exactly why you tried to respond, clearly it wasnt for my benifit, as I asked for the scientific evidence you said you had for wall bags and boxers weak wrists.
> 
> you really shouldnt claim to have science on your side with out checking first.
> 
> tennis


I gave you the science behind it. You called it an "out dated law that was disproven". I think you're just a slow learner. Maybe try reading through this thread again


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## Highlander (May 25, 2019)

jobo said:


> it does in certain bones in certain circumstanceI in certain individuals  but but not nessersarliy in accordance with wolffs law


Dude... have you even studied anatomy haha.


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## jobo (May 25, 2019)

Highlander said:


> I gave you the science behind it. You called it an "out dated law that was disproven". I think you're just a slow learning. Maybe try reading through this thread again


no you gave an example that had nothing at all to do with wall bags, if you claiming wall bags  strengthen bones, that put up some measured evidence for it.

if you meant all along that tennis strengthen bones and not wall bags you should have made that clear, though why you would raise that in a thread about wall bags I'm not sure


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## yak sao (May 25, 2019)

I couldn't find an article on the science of hitting a wall bag to build bone density ..... I know, I'm just as surprised as you are. But I did find this.


Unbreakable - How Martial Artists Strengthen Their Bones


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## jobo (May 25, 2019)

yak sao said:


> I couldn't find an article on the science of hitting a wall bag to build bone density ..... I know, I'm just as surprised as you are. But I did find this.
> 
> 
> Unbreakable - How Martial Artists Strengthen Their Bones


but tennis Stenghens bones, why wouldn't they just play tennis


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## yak sao (May 25, 2019)

jobo said:


> but tennis Stenghens bones, why wouldn't they just play tennis



Because tennis is a racket.


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## Highlander (May 25, 2019)

Wall bag drills
-double punch 
-weight shift punch (shift with punch, square up with 2 punches, shift punch other side. Repeat)
-burst (2, 3, 5)
-step with punch
-punch with hand movement (tan,pak,fook, etc)
-general chain punch focusing on speed


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## yak sao (May 25, 2019)

Highlander said:


> Wall bag drills
> -double punch
> -weight shift punch (shift with punch, square up with 2 punches, shift punch other side. Repeat)
> -burst (2, 3, 5)
> ...



What in the hell are you going on about???
Oh yeah, wall bag drills...  I almost forgot what this thread was about.


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## Highlander (May 25, 2019)

jobo said:


> no you gave an example that had nothing at all to do with wall bags, if you claiming wall bags  strengthen bones, that put up some measured evidence for it.
> 
> if you meant all along that tennis strengthen bones and not wall bags you should have made that clear, though why you would raise that in a thread about wall bags I'm not sure





jobo said:


> but tennis Stenghens bones, why wouldn't they just play tennis


He's  just trolling at this point. Stop responding and maybe he'll go away


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## Gerry Seymour (May 26, 2019)

yak sao said:


> What in the hell are you going on about???
> Oh yeah, wall bag drills...  I almost forgot what this thread was about.


Pfft...some people insist on trying to stay on topic. Just ignore him.


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## Buka (May 26, 2019)

yak sao said:


> Because tennis is a racket.



Rim Shot!


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## geezer (May 27, 2019)

gpseymour said:


> Pfft...some people insist on trying to stay on topic. *Just ignore him.*



Ignore him? I can't. I have this inner Jojo that has been really acting up lately. And a lot of what Jojo says is pretty logical. Like pointing out that excessive wall-bag work can lead to long term hand problems. Yep. And like pointing out that wall bag training may be less valuable to developing practical fighting skills than other kinds of bag work. Gotta agree. And I spent a long time doing too much wall bag work. Got to a point of diminishing returns pretty quickly. Except for some probably permanent joint issues.

Finally, how come no one has thanked Jojo for making this one of the most active threads we've had on this forum in quite a while. Sometimes you just need an evil clown.


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## yak sao (May 27, 2019)

geezer said:


> Ignore him? I can't. I have this inner Jojo that has been really acting up lately. And a lot of what Jojo says is pretty logical. Like pointing out that excessive wall-bag work can lead to long term hand problems. Yep. And like pointing out that wall bag training may be less valuable to developing practical fighting skills than other kinds of bag work. Gotta agree. And I spent a long time doing too much wall bag work. Got to a point of diminishing returns pretty quickly. Except for some probably permanent joint issues.
> 
> Finally, how come no one has thanked Jojo for making this one of the most active threads we've had on this forum in quite a while. Sometimes you just need an evil clown.



Haha, yeah, there's just something about an angry clown that spurs debate .
 Of course if you're beating your knuckles into oblivion then that is not good , whether on a heavy bag or wall bag.
 But I think if you use it as part of an overall sensible, balanced training regimen, there are definite benefits to it... Again the key phrase being sensible and balanced.


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## yak sao (May 27, 2019)

Well here's one for you , after all this talk about the benefits or detriments of Wall bag training , I went ahead and ordered one that was recommended by Danny T . I filled it, hung it up in my building and had a good workout on it last night .
 My little building has French doors in the front and in the back and I keep it open pretty much year-round except in wintertime when it's too cold .
 So I went down in my building today as a bird was flying out of it .
 I was training a little bit with long pole and happened to glance over at the wall bag and saw where a bird , probably that little bastich that came flying out as I walked in , had poked a hole in it and was eating the mung beans out of it!!!

 After all that it looks like Jobo was right . Wall bags are for the birds.


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