# Saiga 12?



## Cryozombie (Dec 23, 2008)

Anyone have an opinion of the Saiga 12?

I'm a fan of the AK and I've been considering a new shotgun for a couple months... my coworker mentioned the Saiga to me, and I watched a few videos and read some reviews and it _seems_ like somthing worth owning.

I have an 870, but a second shotgun, especially since it's different, being Semi-auto wouldn't be a bad addition to my firearms collection, if they are good firearms.  I have read they have some problems Jamming, for example if you load them with the bolt closed, or if you store the ammo in the magazine for an extended period of time (and the reviewer listed extended period of time as approx a month) 

Anyone have experience with them either good or bad they can share before I make any purchasing decsions?


----------



## punisher73 (Dec 23, 2008)

I have no personal knowledge about the gun other than what I have read.  But, for what it's worth one of our firearms instructors just went through a shotgun instructor school for law enforcement and a couple of the guys there had the new Saiga's.

The deputy said that they were neat guns, but the only malfunctions that occured at the range were on the Saiga's none of the Remington's had any problems.

The Remington and Mossberg might be plain guns without alot of fancy stuff, but I think that is what makes them so reliable and the choice of most LE agencies (along with cost).


----------



## Andy Moynihan (Dec 23, 2008)

Be forewarned that Saiga 12 magazines are rare as well. ( Standard capacity is 8 shells which until you and I can manage to leave MA and IL and rejoin the United States, are over the 5 round semi shotgun fake "assault" limit and the Saiga 12 being post 94 we can't circumvent that.

If you MUST have a semi shotgun, it must be a Benelli, or the new Mossberg 930 series.


----------



## Grenadier (Dec 23, 2008)

Saiga 12 shotguns are fun to shoot, indeed.  Because of their construction, and their semiautomatic operation, you actually get less recoil, which is especially noticeable when firing full power loads.  

Most of the feed problems seem to come from using reduced recoil loads, such as Federal Tactical Buckshot, or birdshot.  It seems that the Saiga 12 needs a bit of "oomph" to reliably cycle.  

To be honest, I'd rather have a FN SLP instead.  You'll get 8+1 rounds of 12 gauge ammo, and these are as rock solid reliable as any out there.  

Keep in mind, that the detachable box magazine of the Saiga 12 has at most, a 10 round capacity, and to get 20 rounds, you need the drum magazine.


----------



## HM2PAC (Dec 23, 2008)

Grenadier hit the nail on the head. The Saiga is reliable with nice hot 12Ga ammo. Mags are pricey.


----------



## arnisandyz (Dec 23, 2008)

There is also an inherent reliability issue with the rimmed shells stacked on top of each other in a magazine much like a 22 rimfire.

The Saiga's that I''ve seen running in 3 gun Open division are the fastest shotguns around...when they are running right. Dean Makos, a local GrandMaster is running tricked out Tromix Saiga and its amazing to watch him shoot it.

There are also a couple other guys running the Saiga and more often then not I can still beat them using my 1187 20 gauge loading one at a time.


----------



## Cryozombie (Dec 23, 2008)

Thanks... I was also looking at the Remmington 453 autoloader, since the 870 has been such a reliable shotgun.


----------



## jarrod (Dec 23, 2008)

for semi auto, there's always the beretta...





 
but why just go _semi_ auto?





 
jf


----------



## Deaf Smith (Dec 23, 2008)

Cryozombie,

If you go with a simi-auto be careful of the Benelli M1. Great gun, but like the Saga don't use reduced 'tactical' loads. I found that out the hard way in a 3 gun match. If you want the reduced loads, the Remington 11-87, being a gas operated weapon, would be more reliable.

Deaf


----------



## arnisandyz (Dec 24, 2008)

One + for the Saiga is that it will probably be one of the first guns BANNED (or at least before any of the sporting shotguns) so if you get one and end up not liking it, you will more than likely get what you put into it, probably more.


----------



## jks9199 (Dec 24, 2008)

On the legal note... it's barely legal in VA.  First time one gets some press as it's used by a gangmember or otherwise gets some attention, I bet it'll be added to 18.2-308.8 in VA.  Especially since it's a "scary looking" shotgun...


----------



## HM2PAC (Dec 24, 2008)

Another SG you may want to think about is the Benelli M4.

It is a semi that can switch over to pump action if the semi mechanism becomes jammed. 

The SPAS 12 could do this as well, but it was like carrying around a small tree.


----------



## sgtmac_46 (Dec 29, 2008)

Cryozombie said:


> Anyone have an opinion of the Saiga 12?
> 
> I'm a fan of the AK and I've been considering a new shotgun for a couple months... my coworker mentioned the Saiga to me, and I watched a few videos and read some reviews and it _seems_ like somthing worth owning.
> 
> ...


 I have a Saiga 12 and it's an excellent shotgun.  I have never experienced Jamming problems, but they are external magazine fed.  A Jamming problem would likely be the result of a particular magazine.  Excellent aftermarket magazines are available and made in the USA that are superior to the stock magazines.


----------



## searcher (Dec 29, 2008)

Here is my takeon the Saiga.   It is of a reliable, simple construction.   They are fun to shoot.    They are different, being detachable magazine fed.   They are expensive and not worth what they charge for them.   I see guys shoot them in competions(USPSA andtactical matches), they are a novelty and your money would be better spent on something else.


----------



## sgtmac_46 (Dec 29, 2008)

searcher said:


> Here is my takeon the Saiga.   It is of a reliable, simple construction.   They are fun to shoot.    They are different, being detachable magazine fed.   They are expensive and not worth what they charge for them.   I see guys shoot them in competions(USPSA andtactical matches), they are a novelty and your money would be better spent on something else.


I paid $300.00 for mine.  Another $200.00 for after-market parts, and i've got $500.00 in to it.  My Remington 1100 Tactical cost me $600.00 and my Benelli M2 cost me $700.00.  Of the three, it's actually the most reliable and versatile.

Of course now that the price of Saiga's has gone through the roof you're correct as it's better than $1000.00 for a functional one.


----------



## searcher (Dec 29, 2008)

sgtmac_46 said:


> I paid $300.00 for mine. Another $200.00 for after-market parts, and i've got $500.00 in to it. My Remington 1100 Tactical cost me $600.00 and my Benelli M2 cost me $700.00. Of the three, it's actually the most reliable and versatile.
> 
> Of course now that the price of Saiga's has gone through the roof you're correct as it's better than $1000.00 for a functional one.


 

When was this?   The current prices are pretty dang high.    I looked into a Tromix Conversion Saiga 12 and it was right at a grand.   I decided to get a new M4 instead and stick with my 870.  I am not doubting the reliability of the Saiga, just whether it is worth that much money.


----------



## Cryozombie (Dec 29, 2008)

They have them here for 500. 

My roommate actually came home with one 2 days ago.  Damn him.


----------



## sgtmac_46 (Dec 29, 2008)

searcher said:


> When was this?   The current prices are pretty dang high.    I looked into a Tromix Conversion Saiga 12 and it was right at a grand.   I decided to get a new M4 instead and stick with my 870.  I am not doubting the reliability of the Saiga, just whether it is worth that much money.



I bought my in 2003......I hopped on that train early. 

At that time they were going for $329.00 from CDNN plus the $20.00 fee I paid my FFL holder.  Add another for after market US made components to bring it in to compliance with having the trigger moved back to it's original position, pistol grip, folding stock, and I got it set up like I like it for $500.00.

When I first saw the Saiga I knew the price on that thing was going to go up.


----------



## searcher (Dec 30, 2008)

sgtmac 46, the prices went nuts after Barry O got elected.


----------



## Blindside (Dec 30, 2008)

searcher said:


> sgtmac 46, the prices went nuts after Barry O got elected.


 
They were up well before that because all the Saigas have been gaining in popularity as a brand and the Russian exporter wasn't and isn't meeting demand.  As one RAA importer put it, the Russians send you what they want to send you, not what you request.


----------



## sgtmac_46 (Dec 30, 2008)

searcher said:


> sgtmac 46, the prices went nuts after Barry O got elected.


 They sky-rocketed after that, but have been on the rise for the last 4 years.  2 years ago the same model I bought was going for $450.00......product got scarce due to rising popularity.

Now when Papa Doc Barrack signs a new, more comprehensive AWB, and bans virtually all semi-automatic weapons, rifle, handgun and shotgun, the prices really WILL sky-rocket!


----------



## searcher (Dec 30, 2008)

sgtmac_46 said:


> Now when Papa Doc Barrack signs a new, more comprehensive AWB, and bans virtually all semi-automatic weapons, rifle, handgun and shotgun, the prices really WILL sky-rocket!


 

That is the reason why we must support the NRA, GOA, and all of our political allies.   If we do not, we will end up like so many other countries around the world, where we all become sheeple and not citizens.


----------



## sgtmac_46 (Dec 31, 2008)

searcher said:


> That is the reason why we must support the NRA, GOA, and all of our political allies.   If we do not, we will end up like so many other countries around the world, where we all become sheeple and not citizens.


 Touche!


----------



## sgtmac_46 (Dec 31, 2008)

In the wake of proposed legislation, it's time to remind our confused friends in Washington of 1994, and give them a sincere promise that if they aren't careful we'll do our level best to make 1994 a FOND memory compared to 2010 and 2012!


----------

