# What Hapkido's Founder, Choi Dojunim said about his art...



## iron_ox (Nov 15, 2012)

This is a single, simple quote from Choi Dojunim, again it is a direct translation, so it may be a little rough to understand at face value.

"In Hapkido, one can acquire the basic senses at the age of 40. Who can claim to be a learner of Hapkido without experiencing the time and tide, and the sweet and bitter?
To my fellow black belt holders, as a master who practiced Hapkido for 20 years and who is just about to know what Hapkido is, I will step into your shoes and can only be as humble as a two-year-old learning how to walk.
As you just acquired the requirement of learning the techniques of Hapkido, I hope that you become true followers of Martial Arts of diligence and perseverance, and modesty."

Choi Dojunim often commented that one needs to be over 40 to understand the art.  Before 40, he believed one used too much physical force and not the subtleties built into the techniques.


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## Doomx2001 (Nov 15, 2012)

When GM Choi says he practiced Hapkido for 20 years, is he referring to Daito ryu Aikijujutsu/training in Japan or is he just referring to his creation of Hapkido? 
Also, thanks for the quote. Its nice to actually read something from founders mouth for a change.


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## Dwi Chugi (Nov 16, 2012)

iron_ox said:


> This is a single, simple quote from Choi Dojunim, again it is a direct translation, so it may be a little rough to understand at face value.
> 
> "In Hapkido, one can acquire the basic senses at the age of 40. Who can claim to be a learner of Hapkido without experiencing the time and tide, and the sweet and bitter?
> To my fellow black belt holders, as a master who practiced Hapkido for 20 years and who is just about to know what Hapkido is, I will step into your shoes and can only be as humble as a two-year-old learning how to walk.
> ...



Thank you Mr. Kogor, I can not agree with the above statement more! At least for me that is.  As I age and continue to train my techniques, I understand more and more about hapkido and how to give way and use my "attackers" energy to off balance them, oppose to using levering movements or push/pull method to get a throw or take down.  I think your statement is pretty true for most softer arts.  I look at some of the videos shot of me in the early 90's as a low ranking Black Belt Hapkidoin and some shot not too long ago and my Hapkido has went to a more flowing approach.  On the flip side, as I age my "sport" Taekwondo has declined.  I think perhaps the sport style arts are made for the younger generation where the more traditional art are made for the aging population to understand.  I know Traditional Taekwondo can be very street ready and there are things to understand about that as you age as well, but most of the population I see are younger, athetic, martial artists.  

As I age, I am amazed how much I learn just training with the Hapkido students that I have trained at my Dojang, not to mention how much I continue to learn when I train with my Master or Grandmaster.  

On a side note Mr. Kogor, can you please pass along where you found that quote by Choi?  Master Park Quotes things that Grandmaster Choi said when he is instructing classes but I have never found any quotes online or in books.  I am usually occupied with the lesson on hand to really remember the direct quotes.  Plus, my master's quotes are given almost three decades after the founders death so I am sure there is something lost in translation from his memory.  If you look up Bruce Lee, Morihei Ueshiba, or Helio Gracie there are a lot of books or websites with their quotes that are verified by several generations of stuents.  Young Sul Choi, not so much.  Thank you for your two cents.


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## Kong Soo Do (Nov 16, 2012)

iron_ox said:


> This is a single, simple quote from Choi Dojunim, again it is a direct translation, so it may be a little rough to understand at face value.
> 
> "In Hapkido, one can acquire the basic senses at the age of 40. Who can claim to be a learner of Hapkido without experiencing the time and tide, and the sweet and bitter?
> To my fellow black belt holders, as a master who practiced Hapkido for 20 years and who is just about to know what Hapkido is, I will step into your shoes and can only be as humble as a two-year-old learning how to walk.
> ...



Thank you for the quote Master Sogor.  This definitely puts a different perspective on things such as;



> *Originally Posted by puunui*
> Sinmoo Hapkido GM JI Han Jae was 8th Dan when  he was 29, 9th Dan when  he was 35 and 10th Dan when he was 47. His  student, GM MYUNG Kwang Sik,  was 6th Dan at 27, 7th Dan at 29, 8th Dan  at 33, and 9th Dan at 47.



JI only had about 12-13 years actual training by the time he was an 8th Dan.


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## iron_ox (Nov 16, 2012)

This quote was most likely said after Choi Dojunim had been teaching in Korea for about 20 years, around 1968 or 1969.  That is the most likely explanation for saying 20 years of Hapkido training.  He lived and trained in Japan for almost 40 years.

This quote came from Choi Dojunim's longest student of record, Grandmaster Lim Hyun Soo.  

There is a great deal of conjecture as to how and when Choi Dojunim taught, and his other activities in the dojang, there is an ongoing project to answer some of these questions, as well as producing an actual scholarly work about his life and the men in Daegu that trained with him.  Although it will attempt to be as unbiased as possible, there is already much evidence that points away from some of the training times people quote with Choi Dojunim, as well as rank they claim.

KSD, Ji's rank past third dan does not seem to be related to Choi Dojunim at all.


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## Kong Soo Do (Nov 16, 2012)

iron_ox said:


> KSD, Ji's rank past third dan does not seem to be related to Choi Dojunim at all.



Agreed.


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## Dwi Chugi (Nov 16, 2012)

My apologies Master Sogor. I put a "K" instead of an "S" on your last name. I have no idea why.


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## Kong Soo Do (Nov 16, 2012)

Kong Soo Do said:


> Thank you for the quote Master Sogor.  This definitely puts a different perspective on things such as;
> 
> 
> 
> JI only had about 12-13 years actual training by the time he was an 8th Dan.



I made a mistake also, JI would have had around 15-16 years of training time, which in my opinion is far less than what it should be to hold that rank.


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## Dwi Chugi (Nov 16, 2012)

Kong Soo Do said:


> I made a mistake also, JI would have had around 15-16 years of training time, which in my opinion is far less than what it should be to hold that rank.



I do not know much about Ji. My grandmaster said something about him two years ago. I can't remember exactly what he said but the point he was making was that Grandmaster Choi was the founder of Hapkido and not Madter Ji. I know my grandmaster never trained under Ji and makes it clear we did not come from Ji's line of Hapkido. He never bad mouth Ji, at least not to my knowledge. He is just blunt on stuff like that. 

I think Master Ji has done a lot to bring Hapkido to the surface when he did movies with Bruce Lee. I'm not really sure if that is a good thing or a bad thing. I also do not know Masters Ji's skill levels. Perhaps the Gup/Dan rankings were different in the 1950's/60's. Remember the ranking system is not that old and neither is Hapkido. I'm sure it was done for some kind of political reason. But I can agree today, that 20 years of training you should not be a 6th, 7th or 8th Dan. I have 27 years under my belt and I am nowhere near those ranks. 

Just my two cents worth.


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## iron_ox (Nov 16, 2012)

It is a challenge to find many thing that Choi Dojunim said directly for the record, but for those of you that have not seen this:


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