# learn knife fighting at home?



## thescottishdude (Apr 14, 2006)

I've done some kinfe defense training with my martial arts club. But they don't really go into it in depth and don't show you how to use a knife.

As a knife is the main weapon of attackers in the UK, how do I learn knife fighting from home (DVD, online video files)? Ideally, I'd also need info about fighting a knife weilding attacker with my fists as well.

Any links or recommendations?


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## SFC JeffJ (Apr 14, 2006)

I don't have the link available atm, but check out Hock Hockhiems stuff.  It's pretty darn good.  A lot of FMA deals with both of those aspects as well.

Jeff


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## Shinkengata (Apr 14, 2006)

Honestly the only recommendation i can give you and still keep a clean conscience is to find someone to teach you face to face. I don't personally advocate trying to learn anything by video or book, unless you have prior experience or training in the subject.

I'm just now attempting to pick up things from videos, now that i've gotten a decent amount of facetime instruction and have a foundation to what i am attempting to learn.


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## SFC JeffJ (Apr 14, 2006)

Shinkengata said:
			
		

> Honestly the only recommendation i can give you and still keep a clean conscience is to find someone to teach you face to face. I don't personally advocate trying to learn anything by video or book, unless you have prior experience or training in the subject.
> 
> I'm just now attempting to pick up things from videos, now that i've gotten a decent amount of facetime instruction and have a foundation to what i am attempting to learn.



He's right.  Hock does seminars over in the UK.  Others do too I'm sure.  Also FMA over there as well.

Jeff


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## MJS (Apr 14, 2006)

thescottishdude said:
			
		

> I've done some kinfe defense training with my martial arts club. But they don't really go into it in depth and don't show you how to use a knife.
> 
> As a knife is the main weapon of attackers in the UK, how do I learn knife fighting from home (DVD, online video files)? Ideally, I'd also need info about fighting a knife weilding attacker with my fists as well.
> 
> Any links or recommendations?


 
IMO, I'd seek out a qualified teacher to get some training under.  A video is good for a reference, but as a sole learning tool, it does not rate that high.  The finer points will not be there with a tape.

Mike


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## Rich Parsons (Apr 15, 2006)

thescottishdude said:
			
		

> I've done some kinfe defense training with my martial arts club. But they don't really go into it in depth and don't show you how to use a knife.
> 
> As a knife is the main weapon of attackers in the UK, how do I learn knife fighting from home (DVD, online video files)? Ideally, I'd also need info about fighting a knife weilding attacker with my fists as well.
> 
> Any links or recommendations?



Pat O'Malley a member of this site is in the UK. He should be able to help you find out someone to train with or keep you apprised to seminars in the UK. 

You might send him a PM.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Apr 17, 2006)

MJS said:
			
		

> IMO, I'd seek out a qualified teacher to get some training under. A video is good for a reference, but as a sole learning tool, it does not rate that high. The finer points will not be there with a tape.
> 
> Mike


 
I second that!  Hopefully you can find someone in your area that teaches good knife protection skills.

Brian R. VanCise
www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com


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## thescottishdude (Apr 18, 2006)

I live in a small town though and there's only about 8 martial arts clubs here. i was wanting to teach myelf the moves. I'v been doing martial arts for 9 years now karate and kung fu and I have some basic defenses against kinves so  think i should eb able to learn abit by myself. But I know I need a video rather than a book to do it.


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## MJS (Apr 19, 2006)

thescottishdude said:
			
		

> I live in a small town though and there's only about 8 martial arts clubs here. i was wanting to teach myelf the moves. I'v been doing martial arts for 9 years now karate and kung fu and I have some basic defenses against kinves so think i should eb able to learn abit by myself. But I know I need a video rather than a book to do it.


 
There are a number of 'instructional videos' on the market.  Keep in mind, that the video will not tell you what you're doing wrong, it will not make corrections for you, nor will it provide you with any fine points.  Many times, when people talk about video instruction, they usually say the same thing you did, that there isn't much around the area.  Many times, some of the best training isn't always in your backyard.

Good luck to you in your training.

Mike


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## beau_safken (Apr 19, 2006)

thescottishdude said:
			
		

> I've done some kinfe defense training with my martial arts club. But they don't really go into it in depth and don't show you how to use a knife.
> 
> As a knife is the main weapon of attackers in the UK, how do I learn knife fighting from home (DVD, online video files)? Ideally, I'd also need info about fighting a knife weilding attacker with my fists as well.
> 
> Any links or recommendations?


 
Thats kind of a tough one dude...  Learning to work with a blade isn't just a matter of technique or something in my experience.  Learning to hold and use a blade really involves an overall change and mindset to use.  Example:  Many of the knife programs I have seen will advocate the holding of a blade in the furthest back hand with a free hand to defend yourself in front.  However in practice, I have seen this really lead to bad things.  The human brain is one of those that acts more like a direct one way switch than a series of joined circuits.  We tested the theory of the knife in the back hand with training blades and lipstick.  Instintually the blade would hit that front hand as often as the intended target as that front hand would react to defend and the back for attack.  I stabbed by own hand more times that I could imagine just from that.  The trick was using the front hand for the blade as to not have a means of poking yourself with it.  Not to mention a blade so close to your core is foolish and can lead to not so good things if your rear knife holding hand is comprimised.  Always better to have it away from your core as its far better for them to focus on the hand with the knife than the one closer to your center.  Just an idea, but I would find a group to practice with.  It's like trying to learn to drive without a car.


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## frank raud (Apr 20, 2006)

beau_safken said:
			
		

> Thats kind of a tough one dude... Learning to work with a blade isn't just a matter of technique or something in my experience. Learning to hold and use a blade really involves an overall change and mindset to use. Example: Many of the knife programs I have seen will advocate the holding of a blade in the furthest back hand with a free hand to defend yourself in front. However in practice, I have seen this really lead to bad things. The human brain is one of those that acts more like a direct one way switch than a series of joined circuits. We tested the theory of the knife in the back hand with training blades and lipstick. Instintually the blade would hit that front hand as often as the intended target as that front hand would react to defend and the back for attack. I stabbed by own hand more times that I could imagine just from that. The trick was using the front hand for the blade as to not have a means of poking yourself with it. Not to mention a blade so close to your core is foolish and can lead to not so good things if your rear knife holding hand is comprimised. Always better to have it away from your core as its far better for them to focus on the hand with the knife than the one closer to your center. Just an idea, but I would find a group to practice with. It's like trying to learn to drive without a car.


 
Wow. I am trying to figure out how you can stab yourself in the front hand. In most of the styles I have trained in or read about using the knife ein the back hand,( military and prison) the front hand is not used to defend, but to jab and grab, for controlling and manhandling the opponent/victim.

There are advantages and disadvantages to each style of knife handling(knife in rear hand, knife in back hand, forward and reverse grip, edge in/edge out). The problems lies when it comes time to use it, can you choose your technique, or will your grip be decided by how you can access the knife?

As martial artists, we get caught up in the "art" of knife fighting, forgetting that the very simple basics are pointy end goes in other guy, repeat as necessary. Fighting with a knife in your hands against an unarmed opponent is relatively easy, if you are willing to use it. Fighting knife on knife is a martial arts fantasy. Fighting unarmed against someone else with a knife is a nightmare.


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## SFC JeffJ (Apr 20, 2006)

I always liked what Paul Vunak said when asked the proper way to hold a knife.  "In your hand"

Jeff


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## James Patrick (Apr 20, 2006)

JeffJ said:
			
		

> I always liked what Paul Vunak said when asked the proper way to hold a knife. "In your hand"
> 
> Jeff


 
lol. How true. 

I think that video is a great training tool if you are working with a training partner and another qualified instructor in a martial art. As far as recommendations, I hear that Modern Knives Video-zine is a good training supplement (check out James Keating or Pete Kautz), as they cover a lot of different instructor viewpoints.

James


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## Calm Intention (May 17, 2006)

frank raud said:
			
		

> Fighting knife on knife is a martial arts fantasy. Fighting unarmed against someone else with a knife is a nightmare.


 
Agreed.
I think the guy's name was 'Mark the Animal'  who wrote a book, and made a video too,  on the subject.   Anyway,  'martial art fantasy'  is something he would stress-  also,  'get out of the way'.

I think the stess should be put upon defense(to answer 'thescottishdude'),  rather his concern about offense-  because its really about someone surprising you with their attack.

I'll just say,  even the 'slow' guy on the other end of that knife butt,  can cause you to go into shock very quickly.   I may have heard that one good slice can leave you with 8 seconds to think clear....not much.
And if you don't go into shock,  a well focused(or accidentally focused) hit, can render your hand or limb useless.

Remember,  some guy pulls a knife on you,  you got the 'unconscious sociopathic breed'  of animal in front of you,  and they aren't there for discussions-  and you treat that situation as such.
If you aren't up to run,  you best not be thinking some strategy then.
Work whatever strategy you desire out now,  and the tactics will 'happen' in the moment.
Always be aware of your surroundings,  whats available, etc.
Maybe your jacket can provide your defense, or your belt(either may knock/grab that knife away).

I believe the Filipino Arts, and Aiki Jitsu,  are well versed in dealing with knife issues.


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## Jonathan Randall (May 17, 2006)

thescottishdude said:
			
		

> I've done some kinfe defense training with my martial arts club. But they don't really go into it in depth and don't show you how to use a knife.
> 
> As a knife is the main weapon of attackers in the UK, how do I learn knife fighting from home (DVD, online video files)? Ideally, I'd also need info about fighting a knife weilding attacker with my fists as well.
> 
> Any links or recommendations?


 
As other's have mentioned, Marc McYoung has some great information:
http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/knifefighting.html

BTW, on a personal level, I'd recommend spending the most time working on Situational Awareness, as even experts such as W.E. Fairbairn and Rex Applegate stated that there was no _real _defence against an ambush knife attack initiated by a competent aggressor.


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## Dwight McLemore (May 25, 2006)

I hope noone minds if I jump in here with my 2 cents.  I think you can learn the skills and drills from a video at home. However! When you start going into situational awareness work, and other applications that ultimately lead to some form of full speed sparing one really needs to be working with an instructor. How often is usually the question.  I've sat through regular classes and gained absolutely nothing from some instructors, the days, weeks, and months passed and I was not any different than I was when I went in. On the other hand I've trained once a month and even once a quarter and really  'Got Something' from it.  Something that made me want to train again, motivated me to take the material and adapt it to other uses.  I think everyone needs a core martial art to begin with.  No matter what it is , sport or reality training just something that will expose one to the body dynamics at medium, close, and ground fighting approaches. You've got to attend regular classes to get this. Now, after that, however long it may take, it's time to expand your knowledge beyound the Dojo.  I think training at home is more about building a good library of material that you can reference and use. If you are an instructor, this is extremely critical to having an active, vibrant, program of instruction that won't bore the hell out of your students.  We are lucky to day to have all this wonderful electronic information available.  We are stupid if we don't use it. 

Best
Dwight


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## CMS (May 25, 2006)

Knife defense: good idea. Knife fighting: only as an academic exercise. Defending against a knife might save your life. Fighting with a knife will either get you killed, or jailed (after you get out of the hospital).  The better knife defense is to quickly leave the area.  The best is to not be there in the first place.  Any other knife defenses are best learned along with knife fighting.  FMAs are good for this. Systems that don't teach fighting with a knife as well as defending tend (in my opinion) to lack addressing the kinds of possible knife attacks.


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