# The difference



## Eric Damon Rapier (Sep 6, 2019)

Can someone explain the difference between Goju Ryu karate and Shotokan Karate?


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## Deleted member 39746 (Sep 6, 2019)

I havent done either, but i think, unless i got my karates confused (which i do)     the former mixes a little of juitsu into it and has a bigger focus on internal training and that sort of thing than shotokan.  

thats what i have been told/read the diffrence as being or what makes Goju Ryu special.    or the one i may have mistook for it.


Edit: i always get Wado Ryu and Goju Ryu confused.      But i think they both have a bigger internal focus than shotokan.


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## Eric Damon Rapier (Sep 6, 2019)

Thank you for your input. As you can tell I'm new and feel like a kid in a MA candy store. I have questions on top of questions. Thank you all for having patience with me.


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## Headhunter (Sep 6, 2019)

All styles are different in different ways. Even the same style can have differences depending on the instructor. You could drive yourself mad comparing this style and that style and hey there's no harm in looking around and experimenting at all. It's what I'm doing now just looking at any that takes my interest and seeing the different methods. But for a begginer you should just take one and get yourself to a good level at that first so at least you have a base in something


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## Eric Damon Rapier (Sep 6, 2019)

I hear you. I have time...thanks


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## Mitlov (Sep 6, 2019)

It's like the difference between vanilla bean and French vanilla ice cream. In isolation, they can seem different, but compared to strawberry ice cream, or a cookie, they seem very very similar.

Goju is slightly more circular in movement; Shotokan is slightly more linear in movement and has lower, deeper stances. The biggest difference is their forms; the two styles have a completely different catalog of forms from each other. But in the big picture of martial arts from wrestling to wing chun, they're nearly identical.


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## Xue Sheng (Sep 6, 2019)

Eric Damon Rapier said:


> Can someone explain the difference between Goju Ryu karate and Shotokan Karate?



Gōjū-ryū

Shotokan


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## isshinryuronin (Sep 6, 2019)

Mitlov said:


> It's like the difference between vanilla bean and French vanilla ice cream. In isolation, they can seem different, but compared to strawberry ice cream, or a cookie, they seem very very similar.
> 
> Goju is slightly more circular in movement; Shotokan is slightly more linear in movement and has lower, deeper stances. The biggest difference is their forms; the two styles have a completely different catalog of forms from each other. But in the big picture of martial arts from wrestling to wing chun, they're nearly identical.


Your 1st 2 sentences are correct.  Goju, like other Okinawan styles, has a strong southern Chinese influence.  Originally, they were combat oriented and utilized joint locks, breaks, vital point attacks, and other nasty techniques which were incorporated into their forms.  When Funakoshi and Itosu adapted Karate for the public school system in Okinawa and Japan in the early 1900's, these dangerous techniques were removed and the forms were simplified and became more regimented in the Japanese way.  This new style became Shotokan.  Shotokan and old Okinawan karate do share some forms, though they appear somewhat different due to the modifications (Japanization) as mentioned above.  They are more different than French and vanilla bean - more like vanilla and chocolate fudge swirl.  Much information is available on the history and evolution of karate on-line and in several good books.


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## JowGaWolf (Sep 6, 2019)

Eric Damon Rapier said:


> Can someone explain the difference between Goju Ryu karate and Shotokan Karate?


Only because I can't resist.   One starts with a "G" and the other starts with an "S"


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Sep 6, 2019)

JowGaWolf said:


> Only because I can't resist.   One starts with a "G" and the other starts with an "S"


I believe that "One" actually starts with an "O" and "the other" starts with a "t".


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## Eric Damon Rapier (Sep 6, 2019)

Y'all funny


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## Mitlov (Sep 7, 2019)

isshinryuronin said:


> Your 1st 2 sentences are correct.  Goju, like other Okinawan styles, has a strong southern Chinese influence.  Originally, they were combat oriented and utilized joint locks, breaks, vital point attacks, and other nasty techniques which were incorporated into their forms.  When Funakoshi and Itosu adapted Karate for the public school system in Okinawa and Japan in the early 1900's, these dangerous techniques were removed and the forms were simplified and became more regimented in the Japanese way.  This new style became Shotokan.  Shotokan and old Okinawan karate do share some forms, though they appear somewhat different due to the modifications (Japanization) as mentioned above.  They are more different than French and vanilla bean - more like vanilla and chocolate fudge swirl.  Much information is available on the history and evolution of karate on-line and in several good books.



The one thing I don't like about the "Goju has dangerous techniques; Shotokan doesn't" is that that distinction characterizes Shotokan as a single thing, a snapshot in time, in just one context, about a hundred years ago.  And Shotokan, perhaps more than any other karate style right now, can be radically different things depending on which school you go to.

There are certainly still Shotokan schools where there's minimal contact and bruising and it's all about perfection of movement through kihon and kata, almost like the karate version of a tai chi school.  But there's also Shotokan schools where you learn to hit hard and be hit for much of each class, where every "block" is interpreted as a smashing forearm blow, and you go home with bruises all over your body.  (I've trained at a Shotokan school like the first, and a Shotokan school like the second).  There's Shotokan schools heavily invested in drawing out and learning the throws and joint locks from Shotokan's forms (Iain Abernethy is an example) instead of the sanitized "block-and-punch" oriented surface bunkai; at an Abernethy-style school, you're going to be learning just as many joint locks, breaks, and other "nasty techniques" as any other karate style.  And there's Shotokan schools heavily invested in the competition sparring circuit, where a lot of emphasis training in WKF sparring as a competitive sport just like, say, Olympic fencing.

I don't know nearly as much about Goju, so I don't know if there's more consistency from one Goju school to another in approach and training method than there is in Shotokan.


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## Eric Damon Rapier (Sep 7, 2019)

Very in depth and detailed. Thank you


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## JR 137 (Sep 7, 2019)

I think you’re looking for general/stereotypical answers, so I’m going to go that way with it...

Goju and Shotokan share very few kata. The kihon (basics) are a bit different as well. Comparatively speaking, uses big and exaggerated movements, whereas Goju’s movements are far smaller and more compact. Goju’s movements may look sloppy to the Shotokan-trained eye. Shotokan’s movements may look way too over the top and a waste of energy to the Goju-trained eye. 

Goju’s stances are higher up and shorter. Shotokan’s are lower and deeper.

Shotokan tends to favor a medium range where they can kick rib to head height, whereas Goju doesn’t like to kick above their own waist and prefers a more up-close distance.

In the real world, these stereotypes can be reversed, completely true or completely false, depending on the individual teacher. Shotokan gets stereotyped by the point fighting competition training, but there are plenty of Goju schools who are competition heavy. In these, the only real difference can be the kata list. And there are Shotokan schools that don’t do anything resembling point fighting and look far more like Kyokushin than stereotypical Shotokan. And everything in between for both schools.


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## Gerry Seymour (Sep 7, 2019)

Eric Damon Rapier said:


> Y'all funny


Don't encourage them.

(Unless I become one of "them". In which case, encouragement is always encouraged.)


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## Gerry Seymour (Sep 7, 2019)

Since this thread is already here...

I've heard, several times, references to Goju ryu being more circular than Shotokan. Can someone point me to a clip or two that might illustrate this difference in an obvious fashion?


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## Mitlov (Sep 7, 2019)

gpseymour said:


> Since this thread is already here...
> 
> I've heard, several times, references to Goju ryu being more circular than Shotokan. Can someone point me to a clip or two that might illustrate this difference in an obvious fashion?













I definitely think it's an oversimplification, but watching the kata collections of each style, I personally see a very different feel in the two styles. I see a lot more joint locks in Goju kata, and a lot more straight punches and kicks and forearm smashing in Shotokan kata (at least in terms of surface-level bunkai).


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## Gerry Seymour (Sep 7, 2019)

Mitlov said:


> I definitely think it's an oversimplification, but watching the kata collections of each style, I personally see a very different feel in the two styles. I see a lot more joint locks in Goju kata, and a lot more straight punches and kicks and forearm smashing in Shotokan kata (at least in terms of surface-level bunkai).


I see that, too. I don't see (outside the movements in the grappling hands) a lot of circles. But that might be me looking for circular movement as I'd define it, expecting more than is there.


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## Mitlov (Sep 7, 2019)

gpseymour said:


> I see that, too. I don't see (outside the movements in the grappling hands) a lot of circles. But that might be me looking for circular movement as I'd define it, expecting more than is there.



When I say Goju is more circular than Shotokan, those circular hand movements and such are what I mean. I guess you could call them small circles, as opposed to the big circles of Choy Li Fut, or the circle walking of Baguazhang. It's still very linear compared to those two Chinese arts, but less linear than Shotokan's heavy emphasis on bum-rush style fighting.


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## Gerry Seymour (Sep 8, 2019)

Mitlov said:


> When I say Goju is more circular than Shotokan, those circular hand movements and such are what I mean. I guess you could call them small circles, as opposed to the big circles of Choy Li Fut, or the circle walking of Baguazhang. It's still very linear compared to those two Chinese arts, but less linear than Shotokan's heavy emphasis on bum-rush style fighting.


That makes sense. I was looking for something in the footwork. The hand movements are similar in some ways to what I see in Nihon Goshin Aikido.


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## isshinryuronin (Sep 8, 2019)

Mitlov said:


> The one thing I don't like about the "Goju has dangerous techniques; Shotokan doesn't" is that that distinction characterizes Shotokan as a single thing, a snapshot in time, in just one context, about a hundred years ago.  And Shotokan, perhaps more than any other karate style right now, can be radically different things depending on which school you go to.
> 
> There are certainly still Shotokan schools where there's minimal contact and bruising and it's all about perfection of movement through kihon and kata, almost like the karate version of a tai chi school.  But there's also Shotokan schools where you learn to hit hard and be hit for much of each class, where every "block" is interpreted as a smashing forearm blow, and you go home with bruises all over your body.  (I've trained at a Shotokan school like the first, and a Shotokan school like the second).  There's Shotokan schools heavily invested in drawing out and learning the throws and joint locks from Shotokan's forms (Iain Abernethy is an example) instead of the sanitized "block-and-punch" oriented surface bunkai; at an Abernethy-style school, you're going to be learning just as many joint locks, breaks, and other "nasty techniques" as any other karate style.  And there's Shotokan schools heavily invested in the competition sparring circuit, where a lot of emphasis training in WKF sparring as a competitive sport just like, say, Olympic fencing.
> 
> I don't know nearly as much about Goju, so I don't know if there's more consistency from one Goju school to another in approach and training method than there is in Shotokan.


The "sanitization" of Okinawan karate for public schools leading to Japanese Shotokan lasted for more than a snapshot - more like 70 years or more.  It wasn't just Shotokan that lost many of the original moves by design - Okinawan styles did too, though maybe not as much, as their katas retained more of their original design containing the combat bunkai.  Obviously you don't want school kids learning breaks and dislocates.  Okinawans kept their kata unchanged pretty much, though did not teach the true applications to the Americans who brought karate back to the USA.  So even though Okinawan katas had those moves, few American people knew it!



No doubt, each dojo is unique in what and how it teaches.  Every individual is different.  But looking at the styles as a whole and the way the katas are performed, assuming the style is contained in the katas, a very noticeable difference can be seen between the two, as the video clips supplied by Mitlov show.


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## Mitlov (Sep 9, 2019)

isshinryuronin said:


> The "sanitization" of Okinawan karate for public schools leading to Japanese Shotokan lasted for more than a snapshot - more like 70 years or more.  It wasn't just Shotokan that lost many of the original moves by design - Okinawan styles did too, though maybe not as much, as their katas retained more of their original design containing the combat bunkai.  Obviously you don't want school kids learning breaks and dislocates.  Okinawans kept their kata unchanged pretty much, though did not teach the true applications to the Americans who brought karate back to the USA.  So even though Okinawan katas had those moves, few American people knew it!
> 
> 
> 
> No doubt, each dojo is unique in what and how it teaches.  Every individual is different.  But looking at the styles as a whole and the way the katas are performed, assuming the style is contained in the katas, a very noticeable difference can be seen between the two, as the video clips supplied by Mitlov show.



I think you're equating "lack of joint locks" with "sanitized."  There's no doubt that Shotokan has fewer jiu-jitsu-like elements than Goju does.  But that doesn't mean the katas are sanitized.  Elbow smashes and knees are just as much "combat" as wrist locks and armbars are.

One of the most popular bunkai guys in the Shotokan scene explaining some of the bunkai of that kata you just classified as sanitized.  It's very much combat-oriented, not at all "sanitized" at all in my mind, but it's still that Shotokan-y feel of "charge them and smash things" instead of jiu-jitsu-ish.


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## Flying Crane (Sep 10, 2019)

gpseymour said:


> That makes sense. I was looking for something in the footwork. The hand movements are similar in some ways to what I see in Nihon Goshin Aikido.


Circular can mean different things in different systems.  So I guess understanding what  it means in goju would be a good place to start.  I don’t have an answer for that.


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## dvcochran (Sep 10, 2019)

JowGaWolf said:


> Only because I can't resist.   One starts with a "G" and the other starts with an "S"


Somebody just had to go there didn't they!!


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## dvcochran (Sep 10, 2019)

gpseymour said:


> I see that, too. I don't see (outside the movements in the grappling hands) a lot of circles. But that might be me looking for circular movement as I'd define it, expecting more than is there.


The first video has circular elements, but not nearly as much as say a Kung Fu form. The Shotokan form, not so much.


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## _Simon_ (Sep 11, 2019)

Some say... both styles have linear and circular techniques (with each emphasizing one moreso), but that it moreso applies to strategy and overall approach in application (that perhaps linear means more directness, force, here to there; circular meaning more redirection and utilising body movement around your opponent).

But potentially off topic territory!

Even a straight reverse punch is a series many many circles/spirals acting together in order to direct the linear force of a punch (circles at hips/waist, shoulder, elbow, wrist pronation).

Again, off topic, disregard as you wish!


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## JowGaWolf (Sep 11, 2019)

dvcochran said:


> The first video has circular elements, but not nearly as much as say a Kung Fu form. The Shotokan form, not so much.


That's what I saw too.  Some things have to be done in circular motion because that's the most efficient way to produce results.  For me circular would be more optional for example a punch can be linear or circular but both are still efficient punches.  

Circular movements consists of redirects and continuation of energy flow that can then be used to strike or grab..  Linear movements consist of starting at one point, stopping and then going to the next point. The closer the movement gets to a 360 degree circle and the number of techniques within the system that do this, then the more I would be willing to call that system "Circular".  Circular systems tend to build their fighting philosophy on circular movement.  Linear systems tend to build their fighting philosophy on linear movement.

The first video had circular elements but I would still call it a linear form.  If most of the forms are similar then I would call it a linear system with circular elements.


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## Eric Damon Rapier (Sep 14, 2019)

I see the circular emphasis on movement in Goju Ryu. It seems to me that Goju Ryu uses centrifugal force to add extra power behind strikes and blocks. It registers in my head at least that it has similar perspectives as Aikido. I'm  gonna research in hopes of broadening my understanding.


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## Ivan (Sep 17, 2019)

Eric Damon Rapier said:


> Can someone explain the difference between Goju Ryu karate and Shotokan Karate?


Goju Ryu is a much older karate variant; one of the first. It's influences from kung fu are more provident, as it originated in Okinawa. Styles that originated there, which was then known as the Ryukyu kingdoms, were influenced by the Chinese immigration of the organisation known as the 36 Families from Min. This immigration allowed Okinawans to assimilate Chinese culture, which led to the blending of the Okinawan un-organised martial style called 'Te' (it was very unofficial, and different families had different techniques passed down through generations) with Fujian (or Fukien) White Crane. These influences are evident in the techniques; a good example is the Hourglass Stance (Sanchin Dachi)

In contrast, Shotokan was one of the first _Japanese_ styles of karate. The official date of it's founding is 1922, and in contrast to the direct roots that Goju Ryu has taken, Shotokan was developed from other styles of karate, namely Shorin-Ryu and Shorei-Ryu. Moreover, Goju Ryu has 12 katas, whereas Shotokan has over double that, an estimate of about 26. Goju Ryu also has a deep concentration of balance, so it has an even distribution of 'soft' and 'hard' techniques, but Shotokan emphasizes more on 'hard' techniques, though it does include some 'soft' ones too.


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## JR 137 (Sep 17, 2019)

Ivan said:


> Goju Ryu is a much older karate variant; one of the first. It's influences from kung fu are more provident, as it originated in Okinawa. Styles that originated there, which was then known as the Ryukyu kingdoms, were influenced by the Chinese immigration of the organisation known as the 36 Families from Min. This immigration allowed Okinawans to assimilate Chinese culture, which led to the blending of the Okinawan un-organised martial style called 'Te' (it was very unofficial, and different families had different techniques passed down through generations) with Fujian (or Fukien) White Crane. These influences are evident in the techniques; a good example is the Hourglass Stance (Sanchin Dachi)
> 
> In contrast, Shotokan was one of the first _Japanese_ styles of karate. The official date of it's founding is 1922, and in contrast to the direct roots that Goju Ryu has taken, Shotokan was developed from other styles of karate, namely Shorin-Ryu and Shorei-Ryu. Moreover, Goju Ryu has 12 katas, whereas Shotokan has over double that, an estimate of about 26. Goju Ryu also has a deep concentration of balance, so it has an even distribution of 'soft' and 'hard' techniques, but Shotokan emphasizes more on 'hard' techniques, though it does include some 'soft' ones too.


How is Goju Ryu much older than Shotokan? Gichin Funakoshi (founder of Shotokan) and Chojun Miyagi (founder of Goju Ryu) were both alive at the same time and were contemporaries of each other. If you’re arguing Goju’s lineage/roots are much older, that’s not really true either.


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## tigercrane (Sep 17, 2019)

JR 137 said:


> How is Goju Ryu much older than Shotokan? Gichin Funakoshi (founder of Shotokan) and Chojun Miyagi (founder of Goju Ryu) were both alive at the same time and were contemporaries of each other. If you’re arguing Goju’s lineage/roots are much older, that’s not really true either.


Both, Shotokan and Goju-ryu were contemporary style creations for that time. What Ivan probably meant to emphasize was that Miyagi went to China and brought back most of the older system, which he then molded into Goju. By contrast, Funakoshi never went to China to study, but had indeed studied with Itosu and Azato, which of course were the descendants of Matsumura, whose teachings are what we now see as Shorin-ryu or Shuri-te lineage, which was long before Shotokan was even in Funakishi's thoughts. In that sense, Goju-ryu is older than Shotokan in a sense that it is truly Okinawan Naha-te lineage, where as Shotokan is a derivative of Funakishi's original studies.


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## tigercrane (Sep 17, 2019)

I am a Goju-ryu life long student, and being as such, I'd like to point out that no one on this thread mentioned anything about how grounded Goju-ryu is. One important aspect of Goju that never gets mentioned is that Goju practitioner is not supposed to lift feet off the floor while moving. The practitioner slides. That is one of the important differences between Shotokan and Goju. Another remarkable difference is a a presence of two Chinese breathing katas in Goju; Sanchin and Tensho. There is a notable absence of breathing kata in Shotokan.


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## Mitlov (Sep 18, 2019)

Ivan mentioned that Shotokan lacks an hourglass stance and tigercrane mentioned that Shotokan lacks a breathing kata. Neither of these are strictly accurate; Hangetsu is a breathing kata and Hangetsu dachi is an hourglass stance.

Some Shotokan karateka barely touch Hangetsu--it's not central to the style--but I trained with a guy where that was his favorite kata.


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## tigercrane (Sep 18, 2019)

Mitlov said:


> Ivan mentioned that Shotokan lacks an hourglass stance and tigercrane mentioned that Shotokan lacks a breathing kata. Neither of these are strictly accurate; Hangetsu is a breathing kata and Hangetsu dachi is an hourglass stance.
> 
> Some Shotokan karateka barely touch Hangetsu--it's not central to the style--but I trained with a guy where that was his favorite kata.


Interestingly enough, Hagetsu appears to be derived from Seisan kata, and it looks a lot like Seisan. I wonder if it is performed with the same tension as Sanchin? My son trained in Shotokan and I observed his group training many times. During these many sessions I never saw their Sensei ever mention, let alone perform Hangetsu. It is however interesting to learn that some Shotokan schools practice this kata. My hat is off to you for this information!


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## Mitlov (Sep 18, 2019)

tigercrane said:


> Interestingly enough, Hagetsu appears to be derived from Seisan kata, and it looks a lot like Seisan. I wonder if it is performed with the same tension as Sanchin? My son trained in Shotokan and I observed his group training many times. During these many sessions I never saw their Sensei ever mention, let alone perform Hangetsu. It is however interesting to learn that some Shotokan schools practice this kata. My hat is off to you for this information!



A good explanation of tension in Hangetsu:

”Most of the kata's slow moves are executed with atypical tension and isometric contraction. Emphasis is on strong breathing and muscular contraction of the legs, buttocks, and abdominals. Some instructors teach the slow moves with ibuki breathing (hard, forceful breathing accompanied by throat contraction). However, this is not the norm for Shotokan schools and is much more common in styles like Goju-ryu."

Hangetsu

I don't recall doing any throat contraction at my old dojo when we did Hangetsu, though I do remember the very slow, audible, forceful breathing with each movement in the slow part of the form.


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## JR 137 (Sep 18, 2019)

Mitlov said:


> A good explanation of tension in Hangetsu:
> 
> ”Most of the kata's slow moves are executed with atypical tension and isometric contraction. Emphasis is on strong breathing and muscular contraction of the legs, buttocks, and abdominals. Some instructors teach the slow moves with ibuki breathing (hard, forceful breathing accompanied by throat contraction). However, this is not the norm for Shotokan schools and is much more common in styles like Goju-ryu."
> 
> ...


Just as a heads-up, ibuki breathing is done differently by many different schools. It gets debated whenever anyone (not really here on MT) brings up how it should be done. Different Goju lineages will do it differently, let alone different schools entirely.


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## isshinryuronin (Sep 19, 2019)

tigercrane said:


> Interestingly enough, Hagetsu appears to be derived from Seisan kata, and it looks a lot like Seisan. I wonder if it is performed with the same tension as Sanchin? My son trained in Shotokan and I observed his group training many times. During these many sessions I never saw their Sensei ever mention, let alone perform Hangetsu. It is however interesting to learn that some Shotokan schools practice this kata. My hat is off to you for this !


From the clip supplied by Mitlov (thank you) this Hangetsu kata is most definitely derived from Seisan - no doubt.  But, it has the breathing and tension of Sanchin.  It is interesting to note that these two kata are among the oldest kata known, with a long history in Okinawa (this is why many of their styles share these katas)  What is more interesting to me is that Seisan is a Shuri-te based kata and Sanchin is a Naha-te based form.  To my knowledge, Funakoshi did not have a big Naha-te influence, but his close acquaintance Itosu did.  I don't know the history of Hangetsu kata (does anyone out there?) but is it possible this kata is a later addition to Shotokan to recapture some of the old traditional aspects of Okinawan karate that Funakoshi and Itosu removed from the curriculum when teaching the school kids?

To address another item from Mitlov, Funakoshi's Shotokan was developed in a format suitable for school age children.  When teaching 40, 80 or more kids at a time, it was a necessity to simplify and _sanitize _the curriculum to allow such a group to learn and practice safely. (If you've ever taught a big group of kids, you well understand this)  According to Funakoshi's and Itosu's own writings, the main goals for Shotokan was moral and physical development, as well developing spirit in the kids.  Disabling and killing opponents were not a priority.  This is not to say that a Shotokan expert would not be able to use his techniques to defend himself, just that the style was not developed as a battlefield defense system as were the early Okinawan styles.


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## letsplaygames (Jul 4, 2021)

gpseymour said:


> Since this thread is already here...
> 
> I've heard, several times, references to Goju ryu being more circular than Shotokan. Can someone point me to a clip or two that might illustrate this difference in an obvious fashion?


That’s the only real difference. Circular vs linear  .  I.e angles…  Currently I train Shotokan… & I’ve trained in other Ryu.

Shotokan is very linear in the angles when compared to other forms of Karate.

Because of this, the power generation is lower and more from the floor.

As…for one being better than the other lol… 

karate is karate… to think that one is better than another is juvenile.


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## ThatOneCanadian (Jul 10, 2021)

Something to add:

Shorei Kata:
Gekisai dai ichi/ni, Sanchin, Saifa, Shisochin, Sanseiru, Seipai, Seisan, Kururunfa, Suparinpei, Gojushiho, Unsu, and Nijushiho. Yes, according to some sources, those last three are Shorei kata.

Shorin Kata:
Taikyoku, Heian, Tekki, Bassai, Kanku, Enpi, Jion/Jitte/Jiin, Meikyo, Sochin (Funakoshi's version), Chinte.

Shotokan has a mix of both Shorei and Shorin kata while Goju is purely Shorei kata, although Goju does not contain the last three I mentioned (apparently though, Nijushiho almost became a Goju kata). In other words, Shotokan has overlap between the two - with a focus on Shorin - while Goju sticks to Shorei.


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## Koryuhoka (Aug 17, 2021)

Eric Damon Rapier said:


> Can someone explain the difference between Goju Ryu karate and Shotokan Karate?


Goju Ryu is an Okinawan art that emphasizes Sanchin training and principles of movement and generation of power. Its techniques are executed in a direct forward facing body, for the most part. The footwork of Goju Ryu always moves in an arc, and the feet always meet and separate. Centerline theory is predominant in all techniques. The movements of the kata teach coiling, spiraling and shaking power to effectuate the techniques. 

Shotokan is a modified form of Shorin Ryu, which was taught by Funakoshi Gichin - an Okinawan, to the Japanese. Shorin kata emphasize whipping power and relaxed transitions into power. Shotokan does not use these concepts, and is more straightforward punching, blocking, kicking and takedowns and throws. It is more physical in nature and forges muscular strength. The kata are variations of Shorin Ryu kata, but they are applied in very different ways.


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## Gerry Seymour (Aug 17, 2021)

Koryuhoka said:


> Goju Ryu is an Okinawan art that emphasizes Sanchin training and principles of movement and generation of power. Its techniques are executed in a direct forward facing body, for the most part. The footwork of Goju Ryu always moves in an arc, and the feet always meet and separate. Centerline theory is predominant in all techniques. The movements of the kata teach coiling, spiraling and shaking power to effectuate the techniques.
> 
> Shotokan is a modified form of Shorin Ryu, which was taught by Funakoshi Gichin - an Okinawan, to the Japanese. Shorin kata emphasize whipping power and relaxed transitions into power. Shotokan does not use these concepts, and is more straightforward punching, blocking, kicking and takedowns and throws. It is more physical in nature and forges muscular strength. The kata are variations of Shorin Ryu kata, but they are applied in very different ways.


I learned something new about Shotokan today. Thank you.


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## letsplaygames (Aug 17, 2021)

_"Shotokan is a modified form of Shorin Ryu, which was taught by Funakoshi Gichin - an Okinawan, to the Japanese. Shorin kata emphasize whipping power and relaxed transitions into power. Shotokan does not use these concepts, and is more straightforward punching, blocking, kicking and takedowns and throws. It is more physical in nature and forges muscular strength. The kata are variations of Shorin Ryu kata, but they are applied in very different ways."_


Shotokan is Modified form of Shorin Ryu? 

Doesn't Funokoshi's linage predate any existing Shorin Ryu linage?  Coming before what people think Modern Shorin Ryu is... How can it be a modified form? 

Modern Shotokan is not that far removed from what Funakoshi taught. 

 linage that is close to Funakoshi O-Sensei  i.e. Nakayama's JKA, Nishiyama AAKF... My linage i.e.  ISKF Okazaki ( both my instructors trained under Okazaki Sensei...)  and there are others equally close to the source. (Kanazawa's SKIF comes to mind.)  Train a lot of what people think of as Shorin waza.

Shorin compared to Shotokan ... in a non specific general sense... Usually its the angles that are different, Shotokan is more direct, more linear.  Shorin is more circular, but that is it.   Personally  I think Karate is Karate... there is good karate and there is bad karate... nothing more.  

The problem with Shotokan is it got to big for it's breeches in many parts of the world.  Joe lunch bucket, who never went through a JKA formatted Instructor training course, got a dan grade then opened a dojo and called it Shotokan Karate. 

the result.. lots and lots of ????


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## Koryuhoka (Aug 17, 2021)

Paul Calugaru said:


> _"Shotokan is a modified form of Shorin Ryu, which was taught by Funakoshi Gichin - an Okinawan, to the Japanese. Shorin kata emphasize whipping power and relaxed transitions into power. Shotokan does not use these concepts, and is more straightforward punching, blocking, kicking and takedowns and throws. It is more physical in nature and forges muscular strength. The kata are variations of Shorin Ryu kata, but they are applied in very different ways."_
> 
> 
> Shotokan is Modified form of Shorin Ryu?
> ...


Karate is classified according to their kata. The Naha forms prevalent in Goju Ryu - Sanchin, Suparinpai, Sanseiru, Seisan(varies from Shorin's Seisan version), to name a few, can be found in Uechi Ryu - another Naha origin Ryu. 

Shorin Systems were originally called - Shuri Te, and have Naihanchi, Passai, Chinto, Unsu, Gojushiho - to name a few. Then there are the Tomari City forms like Rohai, Wankan and others, which were absorbed when Shorin Ryu became the banner term. 

It is important to point out that these styles were named according to the cities in which they were developed. Shorin became a unified name for the groups of kata that originate from Shuri AND Tomari. Also, the Kanji in which they were written dictate the pronunciation of the name. For instance - the Kanji for Shorin, is pronounced Matsubayashi, or even Matsuhayashi, when other radicals are added to the original kanji "Shorin". In translation, they all mean the same thing - Small Forest. 

The style of Funakoshi predates the modernization of the names and what he studied was Shuri Te.


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## Koryuhoka (Aug 18, 2021)

gpseymour said:


> I learned something new about Shotokan today. Thank you.


You're welcome.


gpseymour said:


> I see that, too. I don't see (outside the movements in the grappling hands) a lot of circles. But that might be me looking for circular movement as I'd define it, expecting more than is there.


Exactly. This I mentioned on another post saying the footwork moves in an "arc" shape. If you draw an arc, and continue the line, it meets up and becomes - eventually, a circle. Semantics. Many practitioners also modify what they have learned to 'personalize'. In my study of the versions of Bubishi I read, one thing was constant. The poem of the 8 fists. I began to apply the theories this poem outlines and things began to make more sense. These are some of the things left out of curriculum taught to Westerners. The 3rd line reads Howa GoJu wo Donto Su. Method of Hardness and Softness, Inhale and Exhale. These principles originate with the Chinese Hakka and Fujian Arts - Sink - float - swallow - spit. Another line says that the "feet advance and retreat - separate and meet". Combine all the concepts taught within this poem to ANY art, and you have something new. I tell people that the kata is the real sensei. But you also need a human sensei who knows the principles to guide you towards that understanding.


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