# "Swat"ing, when the left disagrees with you...



## billc (May 28, 2012)

A new game the left is playing on the conservatives/republicans, is getting their home addresses...and calling in shooting incidents to the police so that the police response is hard, and swift...

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/05/27/cnn-contributor-targeted-in-swating-attack



> *Erik Erickson, editor-in-chief of RedState.com and a CNN political contributor, reports that he is the latest conservative to be "SWAT"ed. *
> 
> Local police received a call from an individual claiming to be Erickson, stating that an accidental shooting had occurred at his home. Says Erickson, "Tonight, my family was sitting around the kitchen table eating dinner when sheriffs deputies pulled up in the driveway."
> In a statement to Breitbart News, Erickson further explained:I can say that the Sheriff's Deputy told me someone had called from my number, giving my home address, claiming an accidental shooting.
> ...



Two incidents is not a trend but it is still two incidents too many.  This needs to stop now before some innocent person gets killed...

Here is an article on Brett Kimberlin, another terrorist bomber...

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/05/25/Kimberlin-2012

http://www.popehat.com/2012/05/25/blog-about-brett-kimberlin-day/




> *First*, let's look at some language from the Sixth Circuit describing what Kimberlin did: Kimberlin was convicted as the so-called &#8220;Speedway Bomber,&#8221; who terrorized the city of Speedway, Indiana, by detonating a series of explosives in early September 1978. In the worst incident, Kimberlin placed one of his bombs in a gym bag, and left it in a parking lot outside Speedway High School. Carl Delong was leaving the high school football game with his wife when he attempted to pick up the bag and it exploded. The blast tore off his lower right leg and two fingers, and embedded bomb fragments in his wife&#8217;s leg. He was hospitalized for six weeks, during which he was forced to undergo nine operations to complete the amputation of his *529 leg, reattach two fingers, repair damage to his inner ear, and remove bomb fragments from his stomach, chest, and arm. In February 1983, he committed suicide.
> After being convicted of the bombings and related offenses, Kimberlin was sentenced to a fifty-year term of imprisonment for manufacturing and possessing a destructive device, and malicious damage by explosives with personal injury in violation of 26 U.S.C. §§ 5861(d) and (f), and 18 U.S.C. §§ 844(f) and (i). He received a concurrent twelve-year sentence for impersonating a federal officer, illegal use of a Department of Defense insignia, and illegal use of the Presidential Seal in violation of 18 U.S.C. §§ 912, 701, and 713, respectively, and a five-year term for receipt of explosives by a convicted felon in violation of 18 U.S.C. § 842(i)(1). Finally, he was given a four-year sentence by the United States District Court for the Southern District of Texas on an earlier, unrelated conviction for conspiracy to distribute marijuana.​



Who is Kimberlin now...

http://theothermccain.com/2012/05/2...-a-bizarre-turn-forcing-me-to-leave-maryland/



> Kimberlin is a known associate of Neal Rauhauser, a Democrat campaign consultant who has described himself as a computer &#8220;hacker.&#8221; Kimberlin, director of the tax-exempt Justice Through Music Project, is also involved in another tax-exempt group, Velvet Revolution, which has gained national attention by demanding criminal prosecution of high-profile figures including Republican strategist Karl Rove, U.S. Chamber of Commerce president Tom Donohue, and the late Internet news entrepreneur Andrew Breitbart. Kimberlin&#8217;s name also surfaced last year in connection with the so-called &#8220;Anonymous&#8221; international hacker conspiracy. Kimberlin has pursued numerous strategies to harass journalists and bloggers who have attempted to call attention to his criminal past and his notorious dishonesty &#8212; a &#8220;top-flight con man,&#8221; as _Publisher&#8217;s Weekly_ called him in a review of award-winning journalist Mark Singer&#8217;s 1996 book, _Citizen K: The Deeply Weird American Journey of Brett Kimberlin._


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## WC_lun (May 28, 2012)

Agreed this is bad behaviour and should never happen.

Should we list evertime someone from the right does something stupid as well?


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## Big Don (May 28, 2012)

WC_lun said:


> Agreed this is bad behaviour and should never happen.
> 
> Should we list evertime someone from the right does something stupid as well?



When it causes an innocent man and his wife to be held at gunpoint by the police, I would hope so.


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## Steve (May 28, 2012)

Big Don said:


> When it causes an innocent man and his wife to be held at gunpoint by the police, I would hope so.


Yeah.  Someone needs to put that guy, Left, in jail.  Dude's a menace.


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## WC_lun (May 29, 2012)

You kinda miss my point. The guy needs to be in jail, no doubt.  The article is an effort to paint every person who does not believe politically what Billi believes to Kimberlin.  Just look at the title of the thread.  Got news for you guys, there are asshats and criminals from all over the political spectrum.  Why is it everytime someone from the left does something stupid it must be posted on these boards, but when someone on the right does something stupid it is never mentioned or some excuse is made?


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## Steve (May 29, 2012)

WC_lun said:


> You kinda miss my point. The guy needs to be in jail, no doubt.  The article is an effort to paint every person who does not believe politically what Billi believes to Kimberlin.  Just look at the title of the thread.  Got news for you guys, there are asshats and criminals from all over the political spectrum.  Why is it everytime someone from the left does something stupid it must be posted on these boards, but when someone on the right does something stupid it is never mentioned or some excuse is made?


I just don't know how this guy, "The Left," is still on the street.  According to BillC, he's personally responsible for a huge number of criminal activities and while the conservative media outlets seem to know exactly who the culprit is (The Left), they can't seem to catch him and put him in jail.  It's amazing.  The Left is a serial criminal and must be stopped.  

Remember, guys.  Opinions (even political ones) don't kill people.  People kill people.


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## Master Dan (May 29, 2012)

How about voter intimidation like Florida and other places the Republicans set up plain clothes people wearing guns visably at polling places during the Bush elections? seems alot more violent to repress free elections just as the the Poll tax on the poor and elderly making them get new ID to vote when it has not been required in the past my favorite Texas your gun id was enough but not other pieces??????????????????????


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## billc (May 29, 2012)

Well, the left and his buddies sure do like to cause a ruckus.  The left and his buddies seem to like violence and bombs, just look at the NATO summit and the guys the President hangs out with.  

WC lun, the study is a big place.  Post away on what you like.  If you want to highlight that guy, the right, then feel free.


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## Steve (May 29, 2012)

billcihak said:


> Well, the left and his buddies sure do like to cause a ruckus.  The left and his buddies seem to like violence and bombs, just look at the NATO summit and the guys the President hangs out with.
> 
> WC lun, the study is a big place.  Post away on what you like.  If you want to highlight that guy, the right, then feel free.


Then, get that guy in jail, so we can stop listening to you whine about him.  Between you and Big Don, there are dozens of threads about this "The Left" character in which he's done just about every underhanded thing imaginable.


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## elder999 (May 29, 2012)

Steve said:


> Then, get that guy in jail, so we can stop listening to you whine about him. Between you and Big Don, there are dozens of threads about this "The Left" character in which he's done just about every underhanded thing imaginable.



We're trying:



:lfao:


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## WC_lun (May 29, 2012)

billcihak said:


> WC lun, the study is a big place.  Post away on what you like.  If you want to highlight that guy, the right, then feel free.



Umm No.  It would be just as wrong to paint every conservative the same as any conservative that does something stupid.  Do you even understand what I am critisizing?


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## elder999 (May 29, 2012)

WC_lun said:


> Umm No. It would be just as wrong to paint every conservative the same as any conservative that does something stupid. Do you even understand what I am critisizing?



Of course he does!
View attachment $77693101_rush_limbaugh_oxyparody_answer_2_xlarge.jpg
:lfao:


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## billc (May 29, 2012)

hmmm... Canuckma, makalakumu, ken morgan, elder, wc lun, steve, last legionaire, empty hands, Sukerkin, Tez, granfire, josh oakley master dan, depending on the issue Bob hubbard, and a few I have missed, and then there is Big Don and myself.  Excuse me while I dab at the tear forming in the corner of my eye as I contemplate the unfairness that Big Don and I represent on Martialtalk.com.  (sob...sob...sniffle...sniffle...):angel:

Hmmm, I would also ask, which thing that has been brought up is untrue...fast and furious, bowing to foreign leaders, ....?

Now he has gone and insulted Poland....

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politic...-outrage-with-reference-to-polish-death-camp/



> Poles and Polish-Americans expressed outrage today at President Obama&#8217;s reference earlier to &#8220;a Polish death camp&#8221; &#8212; as opposed to a Nazi death camp in German-occupied Poland.
> &#8220;The White House will apologize for this outrageous error,&#8221; Foreign Minister Radek Sikorski tweeted.  Sikorski said that Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk &#8220;will make a statement in the morning. It&#8217;s a pity that this important ceremony was upstaged by ignorance and incompetence.&#8221;
> The president had been trying to honor a famous Pole, awarding a Presidential Medal of Freedom to Jan Karski, a resistance fighter who sneaked behind enemy lines to bear witness to the atrocities being committed against Jews. President Obama referred to him being smuggled &#8220;into the Warsaw ghetto and a Polish death camp to see for himself.&#8221;
> Sikorski also tonight tweeted a link to an Economist story noting that &#8220;few things annoy Poles more than being blamed for the crimes committed by the Nazi occupiers of their homeland. For many years, Polish media, diplomats and politicians have tried to persuade outsiders to stop using the phrase &#8216;Polish death camps&#8217; as a shorthand description of Auschwitz and other exemplars of Nazi brutality and mass murder. Unfortunately this seems to have escaped BaracK Obama&#8217;s staff seem not to have noticed this.&#8221;



And here is a new book on the lefty group Service Employees international union (S.E.I.U.) and their violent activities and intimidation tactics...

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1439285225/dennismiller-20/ref=nosim



> *The Devil at Our Doorstep [Paperback]*
> 
> David A. Bego (Author)





> Bego, an entrepreneur and business owner, experienced first-hand the intimidation, the physical threats and the character assassination labor unions will utilize to achieve their goals during his battle to protect his employees from the Service Employees International Union (SEIU). In this true-life expansion to his successful book, The Devil at My Doorstep, Bego finds his efforts to be vindicated, receives an apology and recommendation from an SEIU ally and describes the final stages of his victory against one of the largest labor unions in the world.


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## WC_lun (May 29, 2012)

...and again you dodge my question.  Yes, yes, poor you because you are being called out on doing something that is quite honestly underhanded.  Please play the victim some more.

Not every person on the left would do something as stupid and illegal as Kimberlin. No more than every conservative is a pill popping hypocrit like Rush Limbaugh.  Why do you insist on trying to paint the left like that?  Are there really so few real political issues to talk about?  Or are those political issue arguements lacking merit enough that you must resort to attacking the entire left with these character assasination threads as your best arguement for conservatism?  I REALLY hope that is not the case, but when you post threads like this, it makes it seem so.


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## billc (May 29, 2012)

The left for too long has been seen as the underdog, the good guys, the guys out for the little guys, the guys who stand up to the evil conservatives, the ones who care about clean air, water, and saving the planet.  In the main stream media, hollywood, and in schools across the country, the left wing causes and their leaders are portrayed as the good guys, the ones who care about the poor.   I enjoy putting out a little balance to that equation.  When people say republicans are racists, I think it only fair to point out the hundreds of years of real racism of the slave owning democrats.  When people say the left helps the little guy, I like to balance it by pointing out the soviet gulags, the thug like behavior of the unions, the corruption of the democrat politicians.  When people say that democrats and the left support women's rights, someone needs to point out the real history of how the left treats women.  For example, the 5 female, democrat senators pushing for equality in pay for women...3 of the 5 pay their female employees less than their male employees.  That is funny, and true.  Obama himself pays his female staffers less than the male staffers, and yet the MSM and hollywood, and schools say the republicans hate women.  I simply like to add the balance that is lacking in the rest of the universe.

Sure, everyone knows Rush was addicted to pain pills due to actual pain.  Yet everyone still gives respect to the serial, sexual predator, Bill Clinton.  You know, the one who was accused of raping at least two women, and using his power to intimidate the other women who he had sex with or attempted to have sex with.  You know, the guy whose wife led the private detectives and staffers to destroy those women to protect their political power.  Yes, Rush is a bad guy all right.  And so I add a little balance to this great big univers.  Sue me...

Playing the victim?  Hardly.  I am just pointing out that there are plenty of people who have opinions that are different from mine, and Big Don's, who have the ability to post just about whatever they want here on the study.  So I would encourage you to stop complaining WC lun and post away.  Be a happy warrior for your causes, beliefs or interesting news items.  Why so serious?

Good night, sweet dreams and may your tomorrows always be bright...


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## WC_lun (May 29, 2012)

Really?  This is your excuse?  Who here on the forums say Repubs are evil, racist, women haters?  Not to mention that your descriptions of the left are full of inaccuracies, some of which has been pointed out again and again.  Your excuse falls flat.  If balance was your true incentive then you would post more about things such as the inequalities of pay in those who support the women's equal pay law and what Republicans would do instead.  Instead you post drivel such as this thread, equating all progressives to criminals.


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## billc (May 29, 2012)

Hmmm...I believe I stated the MSM, hollywood and schools as the problem...as well as others.  I point out a lot of things WC lun.  There are so many things the msm, hollywood, and the education system...and others do to smear republicans, conservatives and regular americans that I could keep posting much more, but I have been trying to cut back.  Hmmm...was this terrorist bomber not a man of the left?  Was the "Swat"ing not targeting critics of the left?  Did not obama send thousands of automatic weapons and heavier ordinance down to mexican drug cartels against the advice of front line agents?  Are obama and other democrats not under paying women staffers?  Did the democrats not stand by as the likes of Ted Kennedy and Bill Clinton and others abuse women, and then give them a pass because the protect abortion rights?  Did the left kill close to 100 million innocent people around the world following the failed system of communism? (I'll leave off the nazi thing for tonight)  Did left wing climate scientists not destroy evidence, undermine critics and promote false science to empower themselves in the debate on climate change?  Was the democrat party the real party of racism, that is slavery, jim crow, the ku klux klan, seperate but equal, bombing churches, hanging african americans, and then they call the republicans racists?  Hmmmm...you tell me....

Inaccuracies...in your opinion.


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## Steve (May 29, 2012)

billcihak said:


> hmmm... Canuckma, makalakumu, ken morgan, elder, wc lun, steve, last legionaire, empty hands, Sukerkin, Tez, granfire, josh oakley master dan, depending on the issue Bob hubbard, and a few I have missed, and then there is Big Don and myself.


What's really funny about this, is that you are so far to the right, you actually believe Canuckma, makalakumu, elder999, myself and Last Legionnaire, Sukerkin and Tez share the same political opinions.  That's a doozy.  It's clear you don't listen, or you'd know better.


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## billc (May 29, 2012)

I didn't say you shared the same political opinions, I point out that you are counterpoints to myself and Big Don.  You shouldn't assume things steve.



> that you are so far to the right,


  Compliments will get you no where steve...


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## elder999 (May 29, 2012)

billcihak said:


> hmmm... Canuckma, makalakumu, ken morgan, elder, wc lun, steve, last legionaire, empty hands, Sukerkin, Tez, granfire, josh oakley master dan, depending on the issue Bob hubbard, and a few I have missed, and then there is Big Don and myself. Excuse me while I dab at the tear forming in the corner of my eye as I contemplate the unfairness that Big Don and I represent on Martialtalk.com. (sob...sob...sniffle...sniffle...):angel:



Dude, it's just that you're out there-I agree with you on a bunch of issues, at their most basic, but you make real conservatives sound like barking nutbags-"Nazis were on the left," it's just errant nonsense, like a lot of the stuff you post. Kind of obscures the real issues....and lumping me in with such good company is great, but I've notably disagreed on political issues with each and every one of those people-especially Tez, Canuck, Bob, Ken, Steve-that Legionaire fella? WHOO BOY!  

And I think John is largely out to lunch on a bunch of things-9/11, climate change, and probably the moon landings as well....:lfao:......seriously?


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## Steve (May 29, 2012)

elder999 said:


> Dude, it's just that you're out there-I agree with you on a bunch of issues, at their most basic, but you make real conservatives sound like barking nutbags-"Nazis were on the left," it's just errant nonsense, like a lot of the stuff you post. Kind of obscures the real issues....and lumping me in with such good company is great, but I've notably disagreed on political issues with each and every one of those people-especially Tez, Canuck, Bob, Ken, Steve-that Legionaire fella? WHOO BOY!
> 
> And I think John is largely out to lunch on a bunch of things-9/11, climate change, and probably the moon landings as well....:lfao:......seriously?



^^^^^ this.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## granfire (May 30, 2012)

Huh? What?

I didn't even say nothing in this thread!

(but I like the company billi put me in. Most of the time)


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## billc (May 30, 2012)

I didn't say you guys were the borg collective.  When Big Don posts something, one or more of the above mentioned rogues gallery will be on the opposite side of the issue.  The same for me.  I forgot to list Bill Mattocks, he hasn't posted much recently, that I have seen,  so he slipped my mind.

Not all of the above disagrees with everthing I post either, so once again, not the borg collective, just opposite posters.


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## Sukerkin (May 30, 2012)

I think perhaps the angle you might not be seeing on this, Bill, is that those of us who chime up to (most usually) counter something that you post tend only to comment on political matters when the need for that occurs.  Even then, for me at least, it is normlly only when something is so far away from reason and truth that it would be a dereliction of duty not to speak up or when I can offer meaningful expertise to try and elaborate or explain more accurately.  Otherwise I either use self-discipline to keep my fingers off the keyboard or cave in and actually put you on Ignore {something I hate to do by the way, it seems so rude to do so (crazy English manners and morality, what can I say :shrugs: )}.

You don't see me banging in threads day after day making up something nasty to say about the Tories do you?  Believe me I could if I wanted - but what purpose would it serve?  If nothing else it would give the impression that I am some ideologically blinkered person who can only see things one way and always thinks the worst of those who see things otherwise.  That's not how I would choose to be perceived.


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## elder999 (May 30, 2012)

Sukerkin said:


> You don't see me banging in threads day after day making up something nasty to say about the Tories do you? Believe me I could if I wanted - but what purpose would it serve? If nothing else it would give the impression that I am some ideologically blinkered person who can only see things one way and always thinks the worst of those who see things otherwise. That's not how I would choose to be perceived.



Again, ^^^^^^^*THIS*.

Seriously, billi, I like to post on political issues-lord knows, but it's just constant with you, none of it's original-it's mostly fringy stuff that's hardly credible, and, well, honestly-if people want to read the stuff over at _bigpajamasbreitbartfoxnewslunaticsareus.com_ then they will. It's gotten to be so that I've pretty much avoided replying to all but the most ridiculous of your threads.


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## Master Dan (May 30, 2012)

WC_lun said:


> ...and again you dodge my question.  Yes, yes, poor you because you are being called out on doing something that is quite honestly underhanded.  Please play the victim some more.
> 
> Not every person on the left would do something as stupid and illegal as Kimberlin. No more than every conservative is a pill popping hypocrit like Rush Limbaugh.  Why do you insist on trying to paint the left like that?  Are there really so few real political issues to talk about?  Or are those political issue arguements lacking merit enough that you must resort to attacking the entire left with these character assasination threads as your best arguement for conservatism?  I REALLY hope that is not the case, but when you post threads like this, it makes it seem so.



If not for the left we would not have Anti Trust Laws , Child Labor Laws, OSHA, EPA, MEDICARE, MUCH OF THE PUBLIC INFRASTRUCTURE. It is the right that wants total freedom to pursue excessive profits at the expense of the poor and middle class but I think it is a total waste of time to use any facts to convince Mr. Bill other wise he is looking for like minded people to chime in. He may as well start a thread on Obama's birth certificate not being valid it holds about as much truth as the rest of the left bashing. Thanks for your imput I wish Keith Oberman was back but too much money corupted even him?


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## elder999 (May 30, 2012)

Master Dan said:


> If not for the left we would not have Anti Trust Laws , Child Labor Laws, OSHA, EPA, MEDICARE, MUCH OF THE PUBLIC INFRASTRUCTURE. It is the right that wants total freedom to pursue excessive profits at the expense of the poor and middle class but I think it is a total waste of time to use any facts to convince Mr. Bill other wise he is looking for like minded people to chime in. He may as well start a thread on Obama's birth certificate not being valid it holds about as much truth as the rest of the left bashing. Thanks for your imput* I wish Keith Oberman was back *but too much money corupted even him?



You had me until "Olbermann..." :lol:


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## cdunn (May 31, 2012)

elder999 said:


> Again, ^^^^^^^*THIS*.
> 
> Seriously, billi, I like to post on political issues-lord knows, but it's just constant with you, none of it's original-it's mostly fringy stuff that's hardly credible, and, well, honestly-if people want to read the stuff over at _bigpajamasbreitbartfoxnewslunaticsareus.com_ then they will. It's gotten to be so that I've pretty much avoided replying to all but the most ridiculous of your threads.



The only reason to engage is to correct the record for interested third parties.


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## Master Dan (May 31, 2012)

elder999 said:


> You had me until "Olbermann..." :lol:


I liked him from the getting the facts and in your face Bush but he got to big for his pants started sitting in a chair reading an esoteric satire book to the little people condesending slophe self destructed which is a good example of people who amass wealth with out humility.

To be factual and fair most of the public programs taxes and protections like all I listed before were in the majority started by Republican Presidents who according to most experts would be called liberal or left now according to the new extreme right that controls the GOP the RNC and most of the anti poor, ageing , middle class and last but not least minority voter intimidation or restriction. I am not supprised at any of Bills threads we know where he stands and those who chime in to support him probably instead of trying to speak up for ourselves it would be better to start oppossing threads with constant links to extreme liberal or left dogma? That seems a waste of time? All that concerns me is that it would seem a majority of MA members seem to sympathize with his positions because maybe the silent majority have better things to do like earning a living?


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## WC_lun (May 31, 2012)

Master Dan said:


> instead of trying to speak up for ourselves it would be better to start oppossing threads with constant links to extreme liberal or left dogma? That seems a waste of time?



I don't like what Billi does with the constant links.  I don't think it would be right to do the same thing.  It wouldn't be any better because I was doing it and I really dislike hypocrits 

There are things about this country that are great due to both Democrats and Republicans.  The _repectful _opposition to each other actually helps keep a good balance between the two parties' various interest. However, when the opposition becomes disrespectful and politics becomes more about treating the other side as _*them, *_always attacking, regardless of truth or consequence, it becomes like a cancer for our country.  Even though this is a political section of Martial Talk, and political discussions can get heated, there should be respect among us.  In my opinion, the constant links attacking anything and everything "left," many times equating anyone who is left with criminals and stupid behaviour, is just plain disrespectful and rude.  Rather than forward any discussion, it makes people defensive and irritated, when it is not neccesary.


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## elder999 (May 31, 2012)

Master Dan said:


> To be factual and fair most of the public programs taxes and protections like all I listed before were in the majority started by Republican Presidents who according to most experts would be called liberal or left now according to the new extreme right that controls the GOP the RNC and most of the anti poor, ageing , middle class and last but not least minority voter intimidation or restriction



And there you have it, the party of Teddy Roosevelt and Eisenhower is no more, and has been replaced by the very people Eisenhower tried warning us about.......of course, they also run the Democrats, but hey......


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## Big Don (May 31, 2012)

WC_lun said:


> I don't like what Billi does with the constant links.  I don't think it would be right to do the same thing.  It wouldn't be any better because I was doing it and I really dislike hypocrits


 [/personal attack]





> There are things about this country that are great due to both Democrats and Republicans.  The _repectful _opposition to each other actually helps keep a good balance between the two parties' various interest. However, when the opposition becomes disrespectful and politics becomes more about treating the other side as _*them, *_always attacking, regardless of truth or consequence,


 Like 8 years of "Shrub" and "Bushitler" etc? Yeah, cuz, that's respectful...


> it becomes like a cancer for our country.  Even though this is a political section of Martial Talk, and political discussions can get heated, there should be respect among us.


 Yes! I've seen the respect some of you show Billi...





> In my opinion, the constant links attacking anything and everything "left," many times equating anyone who is left with criminals and stupid behaviour, is just plain disrespectful and rude.


 Because when a republican does something heinous, his party is the first to demand he step down, how many times was Ted Kennedy elected and reelected after Chappaquiddick? Or maybe Marion Barry after the "*****" set him up?





> Rather than forward any discussion, it makes people defensive and irritated, when it is not neccesary.


So, you're admitting you're wrong for instantly attacking Billi and anything (everything) he posts? 
where is that damn amazed smiley?


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## Sukerkin (May 31, 2012)

{/emote :heavy sigh:}

You chaps really are doomed, you know that?  If you individually refuse to see that this way of proceeding with regard to political matters is destructive then you're collectively never going to get anywhere useful.

Politics is the art of the possible not the science of the absolute.  Forget that at your nations peril.


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## Big Don (May 31, 2012)

> All compromise is based on give and take, but there  can be no give and take on fundamentals. Any compromise on mere  fundamentals is a surrender. For it is all give and no take.


 Mahatma Gandhi 



> Compromise is but the sacrifice of one right or good in the hope of retaining another - too often ending in the loss of both.


 Tryon Edwards 



> Compromise: An agreement between two men to do what both agree is wrong.


 Lord Edward Cecil 


> Courage, not compromise, brings the smile of God's approval.


 Thomas S. Monson 



> Don't compromise yourself. You are all you've got.


 Janis Joplin 



> From the beginning of our history the country has  been afflicted with compromise. It is by compromise that human rights  have been abandoned.


 Charles Sumner 


> If my house was on fire, I can't compromise about  which part of the house I'm going to save. You save the whole house or  it will all burn down. We either save this country or we do not.


 Marco Rubio


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## WC_lun (May 31, 2012)

I do not think you know the meaning of personal attack.  I said I do not like what he is doing.  I said nothing about him personally.  Get the difference?

Politics is the art of compromise.  Politics without compromise is fascism or totalorism.  For those that get confused, neither of those is the same as communism or socialism.

Because you think someone else acts badly is no reason to act in a manner you know is bad.  Point it out, but repeating thier bad behaviour is at best childish.


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## Sukerkin (May 31, 2012)

Context is King, Don.  Do you really want to draw on a terrorist, a religious fanatic and a junkie as being amongst your sources?

I truly sometimes think that the Net, more specifically Google, has been the death of informed debate.  

Shallowness of thinking and avoidance of understanding have become all too common-place because people can substitute a search string for knowledge - or, more accurately, the considered rumination of information into knowledge over time.


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## Steve (May 31, 2012)

All I know is, I don't want anyone to think elder999 and I have the same political beliefs.  That guy is a loon! 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Master Dan (May 31, 2012)

WC_lun said:


> I don't like what Billi does with the constant links.  I don't think it would be right to do the same thing.  It wouldn't be any better because I was doing it and I really dislike hypocrits
> 
> There are things about this country that are great due to both Democrats and Republicans.  The _repectful _opposition to each other actually helps keep a good balance between the two parties' various interest. However, when the opposition becomes disrespectful and politics becomes more about treating the other side as _*them, *_always attacking, regardless of truth or consequence, it becomes like a cancer for our country.  Even though this is a political section of Martial Talk, and political discussions can get heated, there should be respect among us.  In my opinion, the constant links attacking anything and everything "left," many times equating anyone who is left with criminals and stupid behaviour, is just plain disrespectful and rude.  Rather than forward any discussion, it makes people defensive and irritated, when it is not neccesary.


  This is a very good perspective well thought out I agree. One of the points I would like to rebuff is the rights constant bantering as to who are the only people qualified to be president? I am going to start a new thread.


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## billc (Jun 1, 2012)

WC lun, you need to study socialism,nazism, facism and communism a little more deeply.  Then you would see that they are all the same, with small, surface differences.  I can recommend some wonderful economists, political scientists and other specialists in various fields that can help you in your research.


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## WC_lun (Jun 1, 2012)

Billi, you need to stop reading fringe authors whose work is sketchy, at best.  Socialism, nazism, facism, communism, and the one you missed, totalorism are not the same, no matter how hard you may wish it so.  They are not all the sole domain of left wing politics either.  While some of those things may exsist at the same time, in the same government, they are not the same.  Time for you to stop singing that old tune.


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## billc (Jun 1, 2012)

From the new film "For Greater Glory,"...


> > &#8220;Freedom has no compromise. By its definition, it is absolute.&#8221; So states General Enrique Gorostieta in the new film _For Greater Glory. _



http://www.johnhanlonreviews.com/interview/andy-garcia-interview/

Friedrich Von Hayek

Ludwig Von Mises,

Thomas Sowell

George Reisman, Ph.D., is Pepperdine University Professor Emeritus of  Economics, Senior Fellow at the Goldwater Institute, and the author of _Capitalism: A Treatise on Economics_

John Ray

R. J. Rummel

These are not "fringe" authors, but real economic scholars, Hayek and Mises having written about nazism when it was coming to power.  You may disagree with what they have written about socialism, an economic system they were familiar with, but calling them "fringe," is not possible.

Thomas Sowell, began his career in econiomics as a marxist, so he has some idea of what he is talking about, so once again, "fringe," is not a word that describes him.


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## Sukerkin (Jun 1, 2012)

Hmmm, partially grasped truths, can be more misleading than outright lies sometimes.

Hayek is a prime example of that and the school of thought founded on his work is fundamentally flawed.  Some important questions are posed by that school, I wouldn't seek to deny them that, but, where they have fallen short since the inception of Hayek's thoughts, is that they have no answers to give for the guidance of the pertinent economic factors.


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## Carol (Jun 1, 2012)

I'm a VoIP engineer in the emergency communications field, please pardon my interruption of the partisan mudslinging to provide some data.

SWATing is a form of a false 911 call.   Its rise has been concurrent with the use of consumer-level VoIP phone systems, that make it easier to "spoof" an emergency call, and more difficult (but not impossible) to trace.  There has been no evidence that I have seen that indicates that this form of 911 call is driven by partisan politics.

Here is an industry mag that describes the phenomenon in an article from (I think) early 2009

http://www.911dispatch.com/911/swating_pranks.html

The overall issue of SWATing and false 911 calls is bigger than patisanship.


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## billc (Jun 1, 2012)

Erik Erickson and Patrick Frey, as well as 





> Mike Stack, a New Jersey private citizen


, are a conservative pundit and a conservative blogger and a private citizen who were all "Swat"ed.  Is it a coincidence that they were all swatted.


> *Erik Erickson, editor-in-chief of RedState.com and a CNN political contributor, reports that he is the latest conservative to be "SWAT"ed.
> 
> *This tactic has previously been used on conservative  blogger Patrick Frey aka Patterico, a California Deputy District  Attorney, and Mike Stack, a New Jersey private citizen, both of whom  were targeted by the left following the sex scandal which forced Anthony  Weiner to resign from Congress.


*
*


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## Master Dan (Jun 5, 2012)

Sukerkin said:


> {/emote :heavy sigh:}
> 
> You chaps really are doomed, you know that?  If you individually refuse to see that this way of proceeding with regard to political matters is destructive then you're collectively never going to get anywhere useful.
> 
> Politics is the art of the possible not the science of the absolute.  Forget that at your nations peril.


 Sukerkin Tooshie great response!! Everthing positive in the US today from the constitution on was accomplished by comprimise and working together now we have litterly class warfare a juvinile focus on personal atacks as opposed to real substance for solutions. All attention given to who is more worthy on some quasi moral higher ground and worst of all the voting masses are so uneducated are baited and swerved by religous ferver he is a non christian or he is a muslim ignore the fact the person running will not tell the truth or answer a simple yes or no question? 

Bill has a right to his opinion but I would not want to eat dinner with him or Don becuse it would upset my Zen digestion. Again how can you sit down with the extreme left or right its like cats and dogs or Palistine and Isriel one is dedicated to the destruction of the other?

You cannot reason with a person who refuses to listen to any facts or has no ears?


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## Tez3 (Jun 5, 2012)

Master Dan said:


> Sukerkin Tooshie great response!! Everthing positive in the US today from the constitution on was accomplished by comprimise and working together now we have litterly class warfare a juvinile focus on personal atacks as opposed to real substance for solutions. All attention given to who is more worthy on some quasi moral higher ground and worst of all the voting masses are so uneducated are baited and swerved by religous ferver he is a non christian or he is a muslim ignore the fact the person running will not tell the truth or answer a simple yes or no question?
> 
> Bill has a right to his opinion but I would not want to eat dinner with him or Don becuse it would upset my Zen digestion. Again how can you sit down with the extreme left or right its like cats and dogs or *Palistine and Isriel one is dedicated to the destruction of the other*?
> 
> You cannot reason with a person who refuses to listen to any facts or has no ears?




Sigh, Israel just wants to be left the hell alone, it isn't dedicated to the destruction of Palestine. when Israel became independant and wrote out it's dEclaration of Independance it offered all Arabs within it's borders, the same rights, the same treatment, the same citizenship as it did to the Jewish people, it was turned down. Even today though, Arab citizens in Israel get to vote in Israeli elections, they get to be MPs, they get more in Israel than they do in Palestine their 'own' country. The Palestinians are stuck with leaders who insist on wanting the Jews wiped out, this is histotical and leads back to the Nazis and the Mufti of Jerusalem, I have no doubts at all that the ordinary Palestinians, wants peace and quiet to get on with their own lives, just like the rest of us.


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