# Who makes a good bo that doesn't cost the world?



## Bill Mattocks (Apr 1, 2009)

I just bought my first bo.  My sensei recommended a rattan bo about six feet long.  There are some in the dojo, but he does suggest strongly that people buy their own.  My style is Isshinryu.

So I bought a bo from Tiger Claw, and I have to say, I'm underwhelmed.  It's warped, it's very light, and it bends like crazy.  It even has a label on it that says "not to be used for sparring."  Uh, what else would I use it for - not to mention, how about putting that on the website?  Oops, I'm ranting, nevermind.

Anyway, I'm looking for a bo that I can use for sparring in the dojo.  Hard enough to take knocks, heavier than this ultra-light rattan bo I bought from Tiger Claw.  I looked online for 'premium bo staffs' and found some nice ones, but not at $85 USD each, thanks.  I'm looking to spend about $25 to $30 USD.

Any thoughts?


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## jks9199 (Apr 1, 2009)

If you're looking for rattan, use the MT search function.  I recall a couple threads recently about where to buy quality rattan for Filipino training.

If you're looking for hardwood, there's a couple of possibilities.  Check a good wood supply for oak dowels of an appropriate diameter.  (I'm doing this myself soon.)  I'm not talking a Lowe's/Home Depot -- but the sort of place that provides wood for serious woodcrafters/woodworkers.  Or... take a walk in the woods.  If you're real lucky, you might find ironwood or a variant that'll do you right, if you take some care in sealing it.


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## Omar B (Apr 1, 2009)

Yeah dude, I would suggest making one.  You first Bo is gonna take a beating till you get a handle on your tech.  Go take measurements of your Sensei's  (length and diameter) then get a hardwood dowel of the same dimensions at Home Depot, give it a fine sanding and a light finish with Tung Oil.


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## Carol (Apr 1, 2009)

Have you talked with your sensei?  S/he may be looking for you to buy a certain type.

Rattan is generally used for sparring instead of hardwood, because it is safer.  Rattan frays, where hardwoods can shatter and splinter.


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## Bill Mattocks (Apr 1, 2009)

Carol Kaur said:


> Have you talked with your sensei?  S/he may be looking for you to buy a certain type.
> 
> Rattan is generally used for sparring instead of hardwood, because it is safer.  Rattan frays, where hardwoods can shatter and splinter.



Yes, he told me to buy a six-foot long rattan bo.  I did.  It's not like the ones in our dojo, and I don't know where he got them from.  My 'rattan bo' is complete crap, unfortunately.  I think it will shatter with one good blow when we do kumite.


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## Flying Crane (Apr 1, 2009)

hmmm, sometimes you get what you pay for.  Cheap cost often translates into cheap quality.

A bo used for contact sparring will eventually be destroyed, there is no doubt about that.  Maybe the rattan on you got is OK for that after all. You probably want to have two bo, one a cheap rattan one that will be sacrificed on the alter of sparring, and the other can be a good solid hardwood bo that you will use for kata training.  That one might cost you a bit more, but if you only use it for kata, it should last you virtually forever.

Bo are commonly made out of Red Oak, and this can be fine for kata training.  I've got one that is actually pretty heavy, and that makes for a good trainer.  Problem with Red Oak is that it is known to be splinter-prone, so I never use it for contact training.

You can find specialists who make bo out of better hardwoods that are less splinter-prone, but they can be expensive.  Again, you get what you pay for.  Contact Grenadier here on MT, I know he's weighed in on this in the past.

You might try a thicker Chinese White Waxwood staff, for your contact trainer.  They are actually fairly tough as well as flexible, but will eventually fall apart with contact.  But they are not generally too expensive, but you want to get a thicker one.  The thin ones that they use for Modern Wushu spear shafts would be a big disappointment to you.  You can finish these with a few coats of linseed oil or dutch oil.  The oil soaks into the wood and cures, which hardens them somewhat and they will take the beating a bit better.  This also stiffens them a bit, so if it is really flexible it will be somewhat less so, however it will still remain flexible.  But a thicker one ought to be less flexible anyway.


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## Carol (Apr 1, 2009)

That makes sense.  You'd definitely want to stick with rattan over the hardwoods.

Unfortunately many of the larger martial arts suppliers buy rattan without regard to the quality of the stick.  If the rattan has been over dried, or if it isn't of sufficient density, it really doesn't have much value as a martial arts training tool.

Try ordering one from Kombat Instruments, Ltd.  (www.bloodsport.com)   I've heard on FMAtalk from an MP serving in Iraq that they've been supplying his group with rattan (incl. shipping to Iraq), that the service was great and the rattan was good quality.  

http://bloodsport.com/product_info.php?cPath=2&products_id=33


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## Flying Crane (Apr 1, 2009)

Flying Crane said:


> You might try a thicker Chinese White Waxwood staff, for your contact trainer. They are actually fairly tough as well as flexible, but will eventually fall apart with contact. But they are not generally too expensive, but you want to get a thicker one. The thin ones that they use for Modern Wushu spear shafts would be a big disappointment to you. You can finish these with a few coats of linseed oil or dutch oil. The oil soaks into the wood and cures, which hardens them somewhat and they will take the beating a bit better. This also stiffens them a bit, so if it is really flexible it will be somewhat less so, however it will still remain flexible. But a thicker one ought to be less flexible anyway.


 
If you want to give the waxwood a try, I could probably put something together for you.  I've got a good relationship with Brendan Lai's Supply Shop here in San Francisco.  They let me go in the back room and rummage around their stocks and pick out the good stuff.  I could pick out a good staff and have them mail it to you.  I could finish it for you, or you could do it yourself, or leave it unfinished, up to you.  Sometimes they don't have a good supply in and it can take a while before some new shipments arrive.  

Waxwood is a natural shaft, it's not turned at all to even it out so it does taper a bit and can have some unevenness about it.  But I could try and find a thicker one with minimal taper and it might work as well as anything for you.

I'm not sure what it would cost, it depends on the size of the staff.  Bigger one's are more expensive, but the shaft itself might cost around $20-$30.  I would charge a little bit if you wanted me to finish it for you, and I don't know what shipping would cost.

Send me a PM if you want to discuss it.


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## terryl965 (Apr 1, 2009)

I belief FC has given you the best option so far, I get most of mine at my Local shop and she lets me look though everything to pick out the right ones.


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## Blindside (Apr 1, 2009)

I will second the bloodsport.com, they are a very good supplier of rattan.  I have ordered their sticks for years, and have found them to be much denser than most of the commercial suppliers out there.  I have never ordered a bo from them but I'm hard pressed to believe that it would be less than there usual high quality.


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## searcher (Apr 1, 2009)

I get my bo from Crane Mountain, but you stated that $85+ is not what you are after.   So I suggest you just get ahold of Century and get one of their straight oak bo.   It is the one I use for my I-ryu bo kata and it works great.    I also use it for bo kumite and have never had a problem.    They are also cheap.

http://www.centurymartialarts.com/Martial_Arts_Weapons/Bos/Hardwood_Bo_Straight.aspx


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## Bill Mattocks (Apr 1, 2009)

Thanks, everybody!


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## tellner (Apr 1, 2009)

The local hardwood vendors. Leftover 2x2 lengths of some decent wood. A router and/or sander. Danish- or boiled linseed-oil.


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## Grenadier (Apr 2, 2009)

Typically weapons purchased from the bulk chains (AWMA, Tiger Claw, Century, et al) are going to be of inferior quality, and shoddy construction.  Most of the wood or rattan is stored in warehouses that do not have decent thermal control, and the humidity conditions are unsuitable for long term storage.  

Better to buy one good bo, than several inferior ones.  

Carol offered some good advice, that if your sensei believes that your system is best performed with a rattan bo, then ask him to order one for you.  

Otherwise, you may want to look a nice hardwood bo.  For economy purposes, hickory wood is pretty tough to beat, since it combines all of the qualities of durability, resilience, flexibility, and a relatively low price.  

Just as an example:

http://www.woodenswords.com/AMA/staves_ama.htm

The 1" diameter bo would be plenty strong.  

There are other woods that are fantastic for bo's, but as expected, you're going to pay more for them.


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## chinto (Apr 4, 2009)

hmm i have a "banger bo" used for kumite and such. its a cheep one that my sensei had had for a few years. bought it for like $20 from him. sanded it, soaked it in some linsead oil and a bit of turpantine, and its wonderful. 

If i had to use one in combat, I would grab my Shureido bo. cost about $100 but the feel is night and day.  so you do get what you pay for. 


THAT SAID,  THIS IS WHAT YOU DO to the cheep bo you have! 

1. sand it smooth  with 80 and 100 and 150  or 225 grit sand paper and get the finish off it! its provably laquer or varithain kinda stuff. the 80 grit does that and then go up till its smooth!

2: either rub a bunch of linseed oil into it, 6 coats as thick as you can let soak in for 15 min and then wipe off.  Or soak it in a peice of PVC pipe with a cap glued on one end and screwed on the other end. Use about 80 to 90% linseed oil to the rest of turpentine in the pipe if you soak it.  If you do the pipe soak, do it for about 3 hours to 6 hours, wipe the bo clean and keep wiping it ever 20 min till it stops weeping if it is indeed doing that. 

3:  Get the rags you used with the linseed oil into a bucket of water and out side. ( linseed oil in rags spontainisly combusts!!! IT WILL START A FIRE!!!!)  so stick it in a bucket of water or the washer with lots of soap and wash them. 

now your bo will be a lot heavier and a lot tougher and feel a lot better.  other wise go get a shureido bo, you will not regret it if you do! I sure have not regretted getting mine!


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## astrobiologist (Apr 4, 2009)

I was at a Celtic and Irish Fling at the local Renaissance Fair about a year ago.  My girlfriend and I were enjoying beers and turkey legs and listening to music and such when I saw it...  at a small purveyor of wooden weapons such as midevil style swords and spears, shields and axes, there was my bo.  I knew it right away.  The bo knew it too.  I grabbed it up tight.  Squeezed in jun nigiri.  Slid my hands along.  The just less than 5'6" bo is the perfect length for me.  Rather than being rounded it has octagonal edges.  I rolled it to check for straight; it did not pass with flying colors, but who's perfect?  My bo is a mid-weight wood.  There is no polish.  It feels great to work with, the edges will give ya a stinger when you hit yourself, and sometimes it seems like this piece of wood and I have an understanding: neither of us are perfect, but we get the job done.


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## Grenadier (Apr 6, 2009)

chinto said:


> 2: either rub a bunch of linseed oil into it


 
Good advice on the linseed oil, but I would strongly advise someone to use *boiled linseed oil* instead of "regular" linseed oil.  Otherwise, one could die of old age before the regular linseed oil cures itself to hardness.  

Boiled linseed oil contains catalysts that greatly speed up the process of curing (hardening).


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## Grenadier (Apr 6, 2009)

On another note, has anyone else noticed, that the cheap bo's coming from the usual wholesale sources (Century, AWMA, et al) have been looking really bad lately?  

It seems that most of them arriving are already warped, and those that aren't horribly warped are horribly lop-sided.  

Once we get our next shipment of bo's (good quality from a really awesome craftsman), I'm going to use these junk bo's as bashing targets, much like the same way Japanese Sword Arts practitioners use straw mats and pool noodles for _tameshigiri_.


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## harlan (Apr 6, 2009)

Yes. I'm so mad about the last one I could spit. 

I purchased my first bo for $20 5 years ago from a local shop. It was solid, and straight. Had some nasty finish on it, but after sanding and oiling...a great bunkai bo. Wanted something lighter now (shoulder injury), and went to the same place and ordered another...thinking I'd get something similar. Nothing in stock...so I had to pick one out of Century catalogue.

When it arrived, it was: warped, spiraling, some kind of paint instead of varnish, cracks and splinters with glue in them and improperly turned...leaving the center too much to one end. I get mad every time I use it. 

Better to buy something good, with a guarantee. I bought a Purpleheart bo for about $80 from Crane as a gift for my teacher and I actually get to use it. 

Consider a good bo a gift to yourself.


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## bowser666 (Apr 8, 2009)

My suggestion is cheap and effective.  Bud K catalog , $20 + S + H , for a White Wax wood 6' staff.  They can take alot of abuse in training ( Not against bladed weapons though) and they are cheap to replace if you happen to break one. THough realistically it will be very tough to do so as they are very strong.


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## clfsean (Apr 8, 2009)

You can get waxwood cheaper than that if you shop around.


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## HG1 (Apr 9, 2009)

I go to a rattan & bamboo furniture supply store.  Cheap & lots to choose from.


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## goodwrench_mc (Apr 18, 2009)

You get what you pay for - and you should only pay once

Take a look at this product
http://www.durattan.com/
Both the staff and sticks take full strength hits and won't break

And this one
http://www.bostaff.com/
Will build you anything you want out of most any type of wood


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## Ken Morgan (Apr 18, 2009)

Not as inexpensive as youd like, and I admit its my Senseis shop but all weapons Ive bought from him are still in one piece and going strong ten+ years out.
http://sdksupplies.netfirms.com/cat_karate.htm


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## chinto (May 3, 2009)

Grenadier said:


> Good advice on the linseed oil, but I would strongly advise someone to use *boiled linseed oil* instead of "regular" linseed oil.  Otherwise, one could die of old age before the regular linseed oil cures itself to hardness.
> 
> Boiled linseed oil contains catalysts that greatly speed up the process of curing (hardening).




hmm I thought i mentioned that you should only use boiled linseed oil... did I forget to do that?  if so I do apologize! 
If you use anything but boiled linseed oil in a linseed oil it will be sticky for ever!!!! bad thing!


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## chinto (May 3, 2009)

Grenadier said:


> On another note, has anyone else noticed, that the cheap bo's coming from the usual wholesale sources (Century, AWMA, et al) have been looking really bad lately?
> 
> It seems that most of them arriving are already warped, and those that aren't horribly warped are horribly lop-sided.
> 
> Once we get our next shipment of bo's (good quality from a really awesome craftsman), I'm going to use these junk bo's as bashing targets, much like the same way Japanese Sword Arts practitioners use straw mats and pool noodles for _tameshigiri_.




If you want the real advice i would give on a bo/kun  is this:  Go and buy a shuriedo bo and be happy! you pick up one and a cheep one and the difference is night and day! the Shuriedo bo feels like it wants to hit something and the other does not feel as good!  also the wood is top notch and hand split out then turned.  If I need a weapon in the house besides a fire arm or blade its my shuriedo bo that I grab!  ( on by the way a staff is in a lot of ways a better weapon then a sword... lots of swordsman in the asia, and also in europe, found out that even in full armor they were not able to survive an encounter with a staff.


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