# Little variations in Hyungs



## Snapcrackler (Jan 24, 2006)

That thread about katas got me thinking: Have you guys ever come across slight variations in TSD hyungs, for example when working with a different master than your own, or perhaps watching a DVD with TSD hyungs in it? We study Moo Duk Kwan, recently I was watching a forms DVD and noticed that the second hyung (Kee Cho Hyung E Bu) performed on DVD had only sang dan mah kees and sang dan kyucks, but under our master it is learned that when turning, we also use han dan mah kees as well.

I sure don't mind either way, and most importantly I just want to be respectful to my master of course, I was a little cautious about asking him because I did not want to offend in any way. I am sure there is a logical answer to this. Thanks for your help! -Snap


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## JWLuiza (Jan 24, 2006)

Sometimes there are huge variations among the hyungs.  In my school we've been an independent for over 40 years now and we look very different than most TSD schools still associated someway with an organization.  For example we do Kae-Bek at 2nd dan and without sine wave motion like in the ITF...  Body mechanics can be different from school to school as well as style to style.  

I'd love to work with someone else to check out how deep the differences go with other TSD in the area.


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## stoneheart (Jan 25, 2006)

Variation is the spice of life.  Look at the Okinawan kata, notably the pinan series.  The Japanese karateka perform them with lower stances and put a large emphasis on hip rotation.

Even within the same style, you will gradually see some kata drift, if there is not periodic visits from the grandmaster to make sure all of his schools do things exactly the same way.


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## Makalakumu (Jan 28, 2006)

One source of difference is the fact that people's body types are all different.  This often leads to subtle differences in position that still capture the basic meaning in the hyung.

Another source of difference are changes that were made by certain masters for whatever reasons.  Often a master will change a hyung to fit their understanding of that hyung.  These changes can be positive and negative, so most masters attempt to be as conservative as possible, changing just enough to get the point across and still preserving the nature of the hyung.


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## Master Jay S. Penfil (Feb 1, 2006)

It is as Hwang Kee discussed; Ryu Pa-The natural order of the flow in nature.

Each time a different practitioner executes a Hyung/Kata, he/she will to some degree, based on body style, understanding of Bunkai, kinesiology, etc. will look different. 

I can remember as a gup level student in Tang Soo Do back in the early 70s, I trained with 3 different instructors that all came from the same organization (Karate Institute-KI). They each did the Hyung differently from one another, so I had to know and perform the same Hyung 3 different ways in order to train correctly in each dojang. It was a good thing to me, as it taught me that there was more then one way to use a given technique.

Since that time I have cross-trained in several Okinawan and Japanese systems with several instructors per system. It is always interesting to inquire about the individual instructors understanding of Bunkai, Henka and Oyo as well as the principles and philosophies of the movements. There isnt a wrong way to perform a technique, as long as you can explain and demonstrate the techniques application. 

There will always be the basic structure and foundation for each technique in each Hung/Kata. The way that we execute the technique will afford us the ability to perform different Bunkai, or Henka (variation in Bunkai). 

For example:
When you place your elbow in front of you, while executing Yuk Jik Kong Kyuk in Naihanchi Cho Dan, you have to understand where the power line of the technique is. Without this understanding you will never be able to execute the technique correctly. (This is much easier to demonstrate then write)

When you see someone perform a Hyung/Kata differently then you were taught, ask them about their way. Find out why they do it the way that they do. This is how we all grow in the martial way.


Yours in Tang Soo Do,


Master Jay S. Penfil

TANG SOO!!!


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## Makalakumu (Feb 1, 2006)

Have you ever seen a variation of a hyung that has totally (in your opinion) lost the original intent of that hyung?  Why?


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## Master Jay S. Penfil (Feb 8, 2006)

I am a Shodan/1st Dan in Isshinryu. When Shimabuku created Isshinryu he chose to incorporate the kata learned in Goju-Ryu and Shorin-Ryu. These same kata are used in Tang Soo Do, Shotokan and other

Shimabuku changed the stance structure and the basic principles in the technique to the point that most practitioners, unless hearing the names of the kata prior to seeing them executed, would not recognize them.


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