# BJJ guy curious about WC help appreciated



## Rain (Aug 7, 2010)

Hey guys new user here curious about Wing chun. I dont know where to begin really but to give you some background info on 
me I do BJJ at ATT in florida. The best MMA academy in flordia even in the country some would say especially concerning 
aliveness and practicallity and the level of instruction offered to students. I have 3 years expierience in Tangsoodo. It 
took me that long to finnaly wake up and realize that what I was doing would not help me in a real life SD situation.I had 
fallen in love with martial arts and was blindly accepting at least at first what I was told would work.Of course I felt 
some what betrayed and like I had wasted my time when I started realizing that the things I was being taught arent very 
practical and beyond that even with 3 years of never missing a class of acing evrey test and being double promoted even, 
because I was so in love with martial arts(and because of this went out of my way to perfect what I was being taught) that 
I could not defend myself. I was so disenchanted in fact with TMAS that I entered a stage of hatred for all things TMA. and 
honestly for the most part these things are still justified. I hate that honest beginning martial artists are being scammed 
even if its by an honest instructor teaching the way he was taught even if it isnt applicable in the least altough he 
really thought it would work because he,s never really been in a fight or even sparred full contact (I,m not asking that an 
instructor be a troublemaker or that he has ever even needed Wc to defend himself just has long has he spars full contact 
regurlaly. It was the sparring being almost non-existent and even when it was around so light that it was more like dancing 
then anything else that really tipped me off to the mcdojoness.) To make a long story short after reading about CMA,s and 
seeing full contact WC I decided that since I,ve always wanted deep inside to take something traditional for striking that 
it was just has wrong of me to say that all systems of TMA,s are **** has it is for these fraud instructors to lie because 
then I would be just like them a liar. I looked at these WC,ers and saw that they where earnestly just trying to learn and 
apply what they learned in a full contact setting. Noone can ask anything more than that. They where in the same boat has 
me. So I come to you posters of martial talk asking for advice on where in the south florida area I might find a reputable 
instructor of Wing chun that implements medium contact to full contact sparring in the curriculum. I,ve read up on wing 
chun and agree with the philosiphy I really want to think that there is something to this and perhaps that I, if I do find 
a school could contribute in a way to the WC community. I believe that all I need is a shove in the right direction and 
that this would be the place to find it. Thank you in advance. 
-Rain


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## IrishMonk (Aug 7, 2010)

Well, I'm from Texas...so I do'nt know of a good Sifu in Florida...
But I will say that WC is one of the few truely practical TMA there is imo. I myself studied TKD before WC, so I hear you... 
Also, in my experience most WC schools I know of ( or hear of ) do practice full contact...even with multiple attackers etc, however I would say that it takes longer before a new student is allowed to participate...perhaps even up to a year or more. Again, this may not be the case everywhere...just my experience. 
Good luck !


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## coffeerox (Aug 7, 2010)

http://www.wcarchive.com/html/schools/wing-chun-schools-usa-florida.htm

you have a good variety of lineages in Florida.  Personally I would train in Duncan Leung or Wong Shun Leung lineage but it's good to check out various schools and teachers.


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## Rain (Aug 7, 2010)

Thank you both for your responses. I,ll be sure to visit the various schools near me. @Irish It seems that Wc gets a bed rep because most people out there on the internet at least would say that Wc,ers never spar however it appears to me that this isnt the case. Thanks again.


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## Vajramusti (Aug 7, 2010)

Finding a good wing chun teacher is not always easy.A lineage does not amount to much if the sifu has a shallow understanding of the art. If the teacher knows the art and you are learning well- reputation based on what most people do is not that important. Time finding a goos teacher is time well spent FWIW IMO.

joy chaudhuri
www.tempewingchun.com


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## IrishMonk (Aug 7, 2010)

Yeah, well if you speak to the Sifu of a class and he tells you there is no sparring... you might consider another class. We need to develop our skill to be useful in real life, as you know. 
Our school has sparring for the more advanced students, and even invites other schools of diff. styles to participate sometimes. But, like I said...it could be a year or more before students are allowed to participate.


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## Boozmork (Aug 7, 2010)

With regards to sparring, my school concentrates more on slow attacks to begin with, that way we're programming our bodies to stay relaxed and not tense up when we attack at speed. Sparring begins later when we're in proper control of the techniques and structure.


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## Rain (Aug 7, 2010)

I,ve been looking around on the internet for schools near me. Some look sketchy But I,m planning on visiting all of them this week. Do any of you know anyone on these forums that might recommend a school in the Coral springs or boca area? If not I understand.  Again you all have my gratitude.  I,ll be sure to keep you posted on weather or not I find a sifu that I click with.


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## coffeerox (Aug 7, 2010)

Vajramusti said:


> Finding a good wing chun teacher is not always easy.A lineage does not amount to much if the sifu has a shallow understanding of the art. If the teacher knows the art and you are learning well- reputation based on what most people do is not that important. Time finding a goos teacher is time well spent FWIW IMO.
> 
> joy chaudhuri
> www.tempewingchun.com



That is exactly why at the end of my post I put:



> but it's good to check out various schools and teachers.



Lineage is important as certain things are passed down or implemented that are unique to that lineage.  For instance in Duncan Leung's lineage, they do what is called 'circle' fighting where people will attack the single WC student in a controlled situation.

Wing Tsun, and only Wing Tsun that I know of, implements the Lat Sao program prior to Chi Sao.  Their training program is structured differently so that they can go to any WT school and pick up where they left off.

William Cheung's Traditional Wing Chun passes down a distinct style of Wing Chun.  I don't think I need to explain beyond that.


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## Rain (Aug 7, 2010)

coffeerox said:


> That is exactly why at the end of my post I put:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
So are you saying that perhaps I should look for a school with leungs lineage. Do you mean that Leungs lineage is more realisitc or alive? Or do you mean that I should avoid chuen  wing chun for its lack of sparring? 
thats one thing about wc I dont like there is sooo much banter about my lineage Vs yours thats it hard for a noob to Wc to follow.


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## coffeerox (Aug 7, 2010)

Rain said:


> So are you saying that perhaps I should look for a school with leungs lineage. Do you mean that Leungs lineage is more realisitc or alive? Or do you mean that I should avoid chuen  wing chun for its lack of sparring?
> thats one thing about wc I dont like there is sooo much banter about my lineage Vs yours thats it hard for a noob to Wc to follow.



I'm trying to demonstrate that lineages are different in what they practice.  Joy said it doesn't matter as long as they are good teachers.  That's not necessarily good advice.  

What you wanted was sparring so you need a program that includes it, as well as a teacher that emphasizes on a real world approach.  That is why you shop around for a school, you need to find out what suits you the most.

Leung's lineage is called Applied Wing Chun.  Everything that he has learned and teach is based on applying Wing Chun to real fighting situations.  Here, read his background

http://www.appliedwingchun.com.au/master_duncan.htm


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## dungeonworks (Aug 7, 2010)

Rain said:


> Hey guys new user here curious about Wing chun. I dont know where to begin really but to give you some background info on
> me I do BJJ at ATT in florida. The best MMA academy in flordia even in the country some would say especially concerning
> aliveness and practicallity and the level of instruction offered to students. I have 3 years expierience in Tangsoodo. It
> took me that long to finnaly wake up and realize that what I was doing would not help me in a real life SD situation.I had
> ...




Rain, as someone that's come from Karate and kickboxing backgroud and dabbled in grappling and MMA, trained JKD Concepts for spell, I can save you some trouble.  Do not expect Wing Chun to make any sense for at the least, about one year.  Wing Chun has curriculum in sensitivity unlike any other martial art or martial sport around.  They do thing far different, from your stances and movement, to the basic way you might be used to punching....and well beyond.  Expect to be frustrated and maybe even bored with it because the concepts of the art are entirely different than what you have seen at American Top Team and TSD.  I will tell you this though as I have found for myself, once you start to begin understanding Wing Chun, the concepts of the art will make any art you have done better.  Stick with it.  It will pay off and it will especially aid you in your ground game, speciffically punching power from your back/guard or side mount.

Also, on a side note, if you see Thiago Alves, tell him to START CUTTING WEIGHT EARLIER OR MOVE UP TO MIDDLEWEIGHT!!!!  JEEEZUS that guy is just plain too big for Welterweight and tired of him messing up fights because he shows up 600 lbs. over! :BSmeter:


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## IrishMonk (Aug 7, 2010)

dungeonworks said:


> Rain, as someone that's come from Karate and kickboxing backgroud and dabbled in grappling and MMA, trained JKD Concepts for spell, I can save you some trouble. Do not expect Wing Chun to make any sense for at the least, about one year. Wing Chun has curriculum in sensitivity unlike any other martial art or martial sport around. They do thing far different, from your stances and movement, to the basic way you might be used to punching....and well beyond. Expect to be frustrated and maybe even bored with it because the concepts of the art are entirely different than what you have seen at American Top Team and TSD.


 
Absolutely correct...


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## Vajramusti (Aug 7, 2010)

coffeerox said:


> I'm trying to demonstrate that lineages are different in what they practice.  Joy said it doesn't matter as long as they are good teachers.  That's not necessarily good advice.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Geez- that is not what I said. The point was that a lineage does not guarantee that everyone in a lineage is good or that he(or she) is a good teacher.
> But no worries- I don't plan to argue with cofferox.
> ...


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## Nabakatsu (Aug 7, 2010)

Hopefully nobody beat me to it, to lazy to wade through a few posts atm.
http://www.ebmasflorida.com/
That is the lineage I study, if your as much as a fanatic as you say I will post a few other videos of my lineage.
(long seminar taped) 



(demo or two) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pT83yLvIsyk&playnext=1&videos=scmkjt8S-Xw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QI-xGLAHa4&playnext=1&videos=DgdrwIQUzAY


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## IrishMonk (Aug 8, 2010)

Nabakatsu said:


> Hopefully nobody beat me to it, to lazy to wade through a few posts atm.
> http://www.ebmasflorida.com/
> That is the lineage I study, if your as much as a fanatic as you say I will post a few other videos of my lineage.
> (long seminar taped)
> ...


 
That's what I'm talking about.... nice !


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## Rain (Aug 8, 2010)

Thanks nabakatsu. I was aware of sifu Emin and know that alot of people in the martial arts community hold him in high regard. I watched your videos and my only complaint was that the drills seemed a bit compliant. However Sifu Emin himself is athletic (something I admire in all martial artists.) and I,ve actually seen a student who trains with him beat a MMA guy in a full contact fight. However his student out weighed  the MMA guy by about 30 pounds. I was originally on the side of the MMA guy and can aslo say that the MMA guy wasnt very skilled  but thats not the WCs guys fault, he won fair in sqaure and used WC. I saw some of EBMAS anti grappling work well in that match. If you want too see it its Dr_tzun_tzu vs Sirc gong sau. Yes I,m a  member  of Bullshido has well  I looked for videos of Sifu Emin sparring and only found chi sao could you please direct me to some sparring done by his students or himself?


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## Rain (Aug 8, 2010)

Also The ebmas school directory is not functioning on the site. So still the only WC school near me is the "Authentic Wing Chun Academy" Of course I,m always being too harsh on websites and maybe even to suspicous but thats the only school close enough to me for now. At least to my knowledege my google-fu doesnt seem to show any Ebmas near me eithier.


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## geezer (Aug 8, 2010)

Rain said:


> Also The ebmas school directory is not functioning on the site...


 
Yeah, their whole site is down. What's up with that? Alex, the EBMAS secretary goes on vacation and then this happens! I imagine they'll get it fixed soon, but I need more info on the Emin Boztepe/Rene Latosa seminar _now._ Grumble... grumble...


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## Poor Uke (Aug 9, 2010)

Hi Rain,

I think from a BJJ perspective you will learn alot from Chi Sau, like ways to gain dominant arm position etc.. Also there are some obvious conceptual cross overs that you will pick up on quickly (relaxation versus tension, that kinda thing). Good luck I hope you find a decent school, as there is sooo much crap out there.

Uke


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## dungeonworks (Aug 9, 2010)

geezer said:


> Yeah, their whole site is down. What's up with that? Alex, the EBMAS secretary goes on vacation and then this happens! I imagine they'll get it fixed soon, but I need more info on the Emin Boztepe/Rene Latosa seminar _now._ Grumble... grumble...



Hope this helps Geezer.


Date / DatumCity / OrtCountry / LandSeminar leader / Seminarleiter01.08.10AntalyaTurkeySifu Emin Boztepe & Großmeister René Latosa 13.08.10Las Vegas / NVUSASifu Emin Boztepe & Großmeister René Latosa 14.08.10Las Vegas / NVUSASifu Emin Boztepe & Großmeister René Latosa 15.08.10Las Vegas / NVUSASifu Emin Boztepe & Großmeister René Latosa 23.08.10Latin AmericaLatin AmericaSifu Emin Boztepe 24.08.10Latin AmericaLatin AmericaSifu Emin Boztepe 25.08.10Latin AmericaLatin AmericaSifu Emin Boztepe 26.08.10Latin AmericaLatin AmericaSifu Emin Boztepe 27.08.10Latin AmericaLatin AmericaSifu Emin Boztepe 28.08.10Latin AmericaLatin AmericaSifu Emin Boztepe 29.08.10Latin AmericaLatin AmericaSifu Emin Boztepe 

Sorry....that came out messy!

It came from this link here:  http://www.ebmas.net/usa/seminare.php?aktion=seminare&stil=WT


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## zepedawingchun (Aug 9, 2010)

Vajramusti said:


> But no worries- I don't plan to argue with cofferox.
> 
> joy chaudhuri
> www.tempewingchun.com


 
Looks like you were one of the many who sat back and watched the festivities in the 'New to Wing Chun' thread.


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## Vajramusti (Aug 9, 2010)

zepedawingchun said:


> Looks like you were one of the many who sat back and watched the festivities in the 'New to Wing Chun' thread.


----------------------------------------------------------------
Festivities? I don't think so. Just did not want to belabor points already made several times.I already stated that you(anyone)cannot learn wing chun without the assistance of competent wing chun instruction.

joy chaudhuri


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## coffeerox (Aug 9, 2010)

zepedawingchun said:


> Looks like you were one of the many who sat back and watched the festivities in the 'New to Wing Chun' thread.



There is a clear difference between you and Joy.  You reveled in putting me down, bragged about your senior students and how they would beat me down, etc.  That continues to show me that, not only is your kung fu is bad, but your character is bad too.  I don't need to know who you are to know how you act and there are ways I can trap you right into it to show me things that you normally keep back.  

Trust me on this one, you are outmatched.  There are many many posts out there detailing what has to be done, what has to be said.  I'm not going to make it easier for you to understand what I did, you find it yourself.

The problem I have with you is, I actually agree with you (and everyone else).  The argument should have ended right then and there but you keep pressing it, and even today, you keep pressing it by proclaiming yourself the victor.  That is epic failure.  

I don't expect you guys to understand my concepts, and the way I do things, but it would benefit you to keep an open mind (look beyond the self-training, what am I really saying?).  If you kept an open mind, used your common sense, you would come to the conclusion that self-training isn't viable, but what does coffeerox talk about, would be useful?  If you caught those things, your skill can be taken to the next level 1000x over.  Look at what geezer said, about going to the seminar, he is stepping his game up and becoming better than how he is right now.  You were too busy being pigheaded about being a WC pro, and I'm a self-training nobody, that you missed the finer points.

Joy on the other hand, I respect Joy.  He has different opinions of course, and just b/c I caught his mistake on the other thread, does not mean I have animosity towards him.  He avoided the conflict b/c he's already said his piece.  Even when he said it, he did not carry it the same way you did.  He might've felt the need to attack me, but he didn't, and that is what counts.  It shows a lot of character.


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## mook jong man (Aug 9, 2010)

coffeerox said:


> There is a clear difference between you and Joy. You reveled in putting me down, bragged about your senior students and how they would beat me down, etc. That continues to show me that, not only is your kung fu is bad, but your character is bad too. I don't need to know who you are to know how you act and there are ways I can trap you right into it to show me things that you normally keep back.
> 
> Trust me on this one, you are outmatched. There are many many posts out there detailing what has to be done, what has to be said. I'm not going to make it easier for you to understand what I did, you find it yourself.
> 
> ...


 
No one cares mate , just friggin drop it.


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