# Discussion idea



## GouRonin (Nov 13, 2002)

*"Activity Vs. Action"*

Okie, who wants to start?


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## Elfan (Nov 13, 2002)

ac·tiv·i·ty 
n. pl. ac·tiv·i·ties 
The state of being active. 
Energetic action or movement; liveliness. 

A specified pursuit in which a person partakes. 
An educational process or procedure intended to stimulate learning through actual experience. 
The intensity of a radioactive source. 
The ability to take part in a chemical reaction. 
A physiological process: respiratory activity.  



ac·tion    
n. 
The state or process of acting or doing: The medical team went into action. 
Something done or accomplished; a deed. See Usage Note at act. 
Organized activity to accomplish an objective: a problem requiring drastic action. 
The causation of change by the exertion of power or a natural process: the action of waves on a beach; the action of a drug on blood pressure. 
A movement or a series of movements, as of an actor. 
Manner of movement: a horse with fine action. 
Habitual or vigorous activity; energy: a woman of action. 
Behavior or conduct. Often used in the plural. 

The operating parts of a mechanism. 
The manner in which such parts operate. 
The manner in which a musical instrument can be played; playability: a piano with quick action. 
A change that occurs in the body or in a bodily organ as a result of its functioning. 
A physical change, as in position, mass, or energy, that an object or a system undergoes. 
The series of events and episodes that form the plot of a story or play. 
The appearance of animation of a figure in painting or sculpture. 
Law. A judicial proceeding whose purpose is to obtain relief at the hands of a court. 

Armed encounter; combat: missing in action. 
An engagement between troops or ships: fought a rear-guard action. 
The most important or exciting work or activity in a specific field or area: always heads for where the action is.


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## D_Brady (Nov 13, 2002)

In martial arts most people are active  just repeating or practiceing the same technique over and over. Never looking at different ideas or views. Action to me would be exploring new avenues new concepts and tacking your training to a new level.Is that why you began to look at systema? I think in other aspects of life you could also look at  activity vs action as you can look busy as hell but still not be productive without taking action. But hey thats just me .


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## GouRonin (Nov 13, 2002)

Action = Something that has to be done.

Activity = Something that you do that is not needed.

How much of what your art is action and what is activity?


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## D_Brady (Nov 13, 2002)

To me it depends on how you veiw your training I own a small club were we use hubud drills as entrys . I personly think this keeps students training leaning more towards Action than Activity.
The drills outcome is never the same due to the spontinaity and unpredictability of the responses and counters. I think it leans

  more action,rather than waiting for the standard right punch then stand thier and let someone do Five swords every time(avtivity).
I have no problem with standard thechs, but I think you need to learn to think not only on your feet but while thier moving too.


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## KenpoGirl (Nov 13, 2002)

There is a quote that I really like........

*"I Will Never Stop, For If I Do Then Surely This Will Be The Very Place Where I Will Die."  Unknown* 

People, and or Martial Artists that strive for some far dangling carrot, alway reaching out for that brass ring are to be admired.  They don't need a reason to do something they just do it because they want to.  They live for the journey not the prize on the other side.

I think many MA'ist that have succeeded in flourishing, in the martial arts, have that inner need to keep striving to improve and to grow.

Something I myself am working towards.

Dot
:asian:


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## GouRonin (Nov 14, 2002)

> _Originally posted by KenpoGirl _
> *People, and or Martial Artists that strive for some far dangling carrot, alway reaching out for that brass ring are to be admired.  They don't need a reason to do something they just do it because they want to.  They live for the journey not the prize on the other side.*



There is a concept that I would like to bring forward to counter this line of thought. It might be hard to grasp because this somewhat goes against the grain of what you are saying, and against the grain of many martial artists for a long time.

This is action vs activity. As you stated, _"They don't need a reason to do something they just do it because they want to."_ However, nothing happens in a void. There is a reason for everything. People often trick themselves into believing this. Motive is the mother of all inititive.

As Vald has told me, and I quite agree, an action takes place when the situation demands it. Activity comes from a restless mind and not from demand. Doing tons of push ups because you think it will help you in your martial arts is not always an action, it is an activity to keep one occupied. Working on hubud with a partner or a 6 count drill can be activity. Look at kids in class when the instructor tells them to do a certain drill. They go into doing it rote, per memory, without thinking, but it's no more than a choreographed dance in which they have no purpose and they don't understand what they do. How the drills and push ups are done and applied for a certain reason and what mindset is used while doing them is VERY important.

A better example might be, when you are hungry, you eat. This is action. When you are not hungry and you eat, this is activity. Both will provide you with sustenance and give you energy but which is needed and demanded and which is just killing time?

One of the things that drives me nutty about Kenpo is that, imho, people have focused in on the techs and lost what they are there for. Like a person who goes to a job interview they prepare their answers and behaviors in advance but when they get to the interview the questions are different. You have become too selective and eliminated yourself. How many times have you seen an instructor ask to see short one and suddenly the student zones out to do a repetitive set of motion? Is that action or activity? The mindset while doing it or how he does it to understand it might make a difference.

So always doing something, always training for the sake of training is just activity. Not action. People fool themselves that they do things for s purpose when they are not. We're good at tricking ourselves as we want to think that what we do is for a purpose when it can often be busy work. Many instructors claim that they do this for muscle memory, that your body will take over when the real thing happens. I think deep down inside people know, that this is not the case. The body must be driven by the mind. While the body is used to doing certain actions, it is the mind that must have position recognition before the body can be told to react.



> _Originally posted by KenpoGirl _
> *I think many MA'ist that have succeeded in flourishing, in the martial arts, have that inner need to keep striving to improve and to grow.*



I think that the reason many martial artists have done well is that they live the life of the soldier, not the life of the king. The soldier is subservient to his activity. The king is served by his action. How you train, using activity vs action is how you get there.


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## KenpoGirl (Nov 14, 2002)

Gou, I'm impressed.  That is an incredibly perceptive observation.

I can't dispute anything you've said.

Be it activity or action, anything that a person does to improve their life, health and lifestyle, should be applauded and praised.  If what they do improves other peoples lives then they should be given a medal.  

Life seems too full of inactivity and distraction.  Focousing on a goal and not being sidetracked is what differentiates success from failure.  Keeping that focous is a constant battle for some easy for others, but that doesn't mean the victory is any more or less sweet.  

Bravo!

Dot
:asian:


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## GouRonin (Nov 14, 2002)

> _Originally posted by KenpoGirl _
> *Gou, I'm impressed. Bravo!*



Yeah, I hear that a lot.



> _Originally posted by KenpoGirl _
> *That is an incredibly perceptive observation.*



While I would like to take credit for all of that, and believe me I would if I could, Vlad helped me put my thoughts into words when I lacked them.

The philosophy degree helps too.



> _Originally posted by KenpoGirl _
> *I can't dispute anything you've said.*



That's because I am a genious! A genious damn it! You'll all be sorry when I am gone! Sorry I say! You'll all be lost without me and when the chaos is waist deep, you'll collectively look to me and say _"Save us!"_ and I'll look back as I continue to preach the truth and I'll whisper ..._"no"_...

Uh...sorry...was that my _"out-loud"_ voice?



> _Originally posted by KenpoGirl _
> *Be it activity or action, anything that a person does to improve their life, health and lifestyle, should be applauded and praised.  If what they do improves other peoples lives then they should be given a medal.*



NOOOOOOOOO! You've missed my point! Augh! Activity does not help improve lifestyle. Action for action's sake is activity. Applause and praise for busy work is what the soldier gets because he is just a drone. Like a child in kindergarden who works for not himself but the pat on the head and approval of work done for the sake of nothing.

Oh the humanity. Excuse me while I weep.
:waah:

Improving your own life should be a priority. That is action. Jaybacca has said many times that he is not a teacher per say. He is a compass. He will guide you to where you want to go. He will not take you by the hand and lead you, rather he will point a direction. How you decide to go there or if what direction you want to go in is up to you. This is not something that just happens. Some people have this innate skill, some develop it. Many martial arts teachers are devoid of it and many more still seek to crush their students!

Action is a demand. Activity is lighting up a smoke because you have nothing better to do. You must have purpose! With purpose comes the mental recognition of what surrounds you.

How many times have you heard me say that the best forward bow you will ever do is the one you will be doing as you push your car when it breaks down? Because that is an action. Something demanded of you. When it is an activity in the school people do all sorts of weird things because it has no purpose. The moment you ask them to show you how they push a broken down car and you give them purpose that they recognize suddenly the brain kicks into position recognition and they KNOW how to execute a perfect forward bow.



> _Originally posted by KenpoGirl _
> *Life seems too full of inactivity and distraction.*



Mostly because people trick themselves into thinking these things are meaningful work.

A lot of what I do people often tell me is crazy and not worth doing. In reality, it means a lot to me on many different levels. My choices are to have what I do serve me, not have me serve what I do.



> _Originally posted by KenpoGirl _
> *focousing on a goal and not being sidetracked is what differentiates success from failure.  Keeping that focous is a constant battle for some easy for others, but that doesn't mean the victory is any more or less sweet.*



Sometimes being sidetracked is what makes the journey. I think people often become so focused on the goal that they don't realize that the goal they claim to seek is not the goal they are working towards.


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## KenpoGirl (Nov 14, 2002)

> _Originally posted by GouRonin _
> 
> *NOOOOOOOOO! You've missed my point! Augh! Activity does not help improve lifestyle. Action for action's sake is activity. Applause and praise for busy work is what the soldier gets because he is just a drone. Like a child in kindergarden who works for not himself but the pat on the head and approval of work done for the sake of nothing.
> 
> *



Touche, Gou.  I again agree, thank you for clarifying.  My appologies I typed to quickly not thinking it through enough.

Question .......

You are training in Martial arts, you haven't quite discovered the "higher meaning" in the reason for you training as yet.  (ie better self esteem, purpose, knowledge etc..) you started just to do "something".  Though in the big picture what you are doing is just an activity, the fact that you took the step to start doing it would that not be an action?

Dot


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## tarabos (Nov 14, 2002)

Gou...everything you've stated is very thought provoking, and to many people that read it, i think it could and should be a little enlightening. 

It seems to be part of the essence of systema's though process is to help you learn to focus on what is really neccessary, to clear you mind so to speak of all the schluck that may have been clouding it up. And no one here can say that they don't have some kind of "clouding" going on in their mind. Even if you started a MA from scratch you most likely go in with some type of sterotypical thinking of what "should" happen and why. 

I can't really add to anything you've said, and if I tried I think I would not be able to put it into words correctly. So I'll just say I hope most of the people on this forum will read what you typed here today and take a little something from it. I have.


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## Roland (Nov 14, 2002)

Watching TV is an activity! Yes?
Small talk is an activity, true?
Running on a tread mill for an hour is also an activity, just as is doing 50 kicks when 5, or even 1, might have done the job while working out.
Busy work, even if it is 'sold' as a benefit is still busy work.
Maybe an idea would be - Do what is needed to accomplish your needs, and then move on!

I think, it comes down to purpose. And who you are as a person.
What are your goals?
Will doing a repeatitive exercise get you in better shape? Maybe.
Will it accomplish much else? Probaly not.
Are there other ways of getting in shape? For sure.
The best ways are probally the ones that you do for some other purpose other than plain old exercise. 

The exercise thing is just an example, one I have heard Martin use a few times, there are many other ways it can be looked at.

This is one of those ideas I feel is hard to get across to others.


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## GouRonin (Nov 14, 2002)

> _Originally posted by KenpoGirl _
> *Question .......
> You are training in Martial arts, you haven't quite discovered the "higher meaning" in the reason for you training as yet.  (ie better self esteem, purpose, knowledge etc..) you started just to do "something".  Though in the big picture what you are doing is just an activity, the fact that you took the step to start doing it would that not be an action?*



On some level it might be an action but if we follow the idea that action is something demanded of us then it would still be an activity.

If you are getting at the fact that you are doing something that is a choice but it is a HEALTHY choice I would agree with you.


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## GouRonin (Nov 14, 2002)

> _Originally posted by tarabos _
> 
> *Gou...everything you've stated is very thought provoking, and to many people that read it, i think it could and should be a little enlightening.
> It seems to be part of the essence of systema's though process is to help you learn to focus on what is really neccessary, to clear you mind so to speak of all the schluck that may have been clouding it up. And no one here can say that they don't have some kind of "clouding" going on in their mind. Even if you started a MA from scratch you most likely go in with some type of sterotypical thinking of what "should" happen and why.
> I can't really add to anything you've said, and if I tried I think I would not be able to put it into words correctly. So I'll just say I hope most of the people on this forum will read what you typed here today and take a little something from it. I have. *



I had a conversation about Vlad with a senior kenpoist a while ago. After the conversation I very much understood what it must have been like to have met and trained under Mr. Parker. Vlad is very much the same.


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## Klondike93 (Nov 14, 2002)

Impressive Gou, very impressive. 

Brad tells me something and I usually forget it by the time I hit the door  


:asian:


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## Roland (Nov 14, 2002)

Activity would be doing a self-defense technique that your instructor has drilled into you so many times.
Action would be defending yourslef against the attack in a natural free flow way. No memorized movements, just go!
or
Standing there in class while hitting the pad (activity) versus
Being active in your pad drills, not only as the hitter, but the pad holder also, Hitting what ever tarket presents itself, not waiting for the one you have been taught to hit (action).

Maybe.


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## tarabos (Nov 15, 2002)

> _Originally posted by GouRonin _
> 
> *I had a conversation about Vlad with a senior kenpoist a while ago. After the conversation I very much understood what it must have been like to have met and trained under Mr. Parker. Vlad is very much the same. *



i look forward to meeting the man myself whenever the chance comes to me. there's something to be said about someone who can inspire so many people just by being themselves. kenpoists have seen first hand what losing someone like that can do to a "community" so to speak.

and it isn't fighting ability that makes someone so admired and inspirational. sure, in the world of martial arts you better be one hell of an artist, but proffessional boxers, kickboxers, mma'ists don't always get that admiration because they may either be arrogant, mean, or just a bad person all together.


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## Rich Parsons (Nov 16, 2002)

So Gou,


If I drink a beer to get drunk that is action, yet if I drink a beer while talking with friends and or watching the ballet, then that is activity.


Just looking for someone to understand this deep stuff in terms I know.

Rich


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