# Required reading for Hapkidoists



## SmellyMonkey (Sep 30, 2004)

To all you Hapkidoists who have been around a while, please help me out.

If you were a professor of Hapkido teaching the art at a university, what would your required reading list be?

Please give title, author, and why it should be required reading.

Thanks!
Jeremy


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## iron_ox (Sep 30, 2004)

Hello Jeremy,

I my opinion, there is not a single book in print (or out of print) that properly covers Hapkido.  This includes the 1000 page overpriced paperweight by Tedeschi.

There are some fun techniques to see in print from time to time - but save your money for training or a new dobok - it will be much better spent.  Furthermore, get the college students just to bring blank paper - then make then write down what they learn and how to teach it - a much more valuable resource than any store bought book...

Sincerely,

Kevin Sogor


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## glad2bhere (Sep 30, 2004)

Dear Jeremy: 

I hate to sound like I am putting you off but the fact is that what you want to read is going to be greatly influenced by the way in which you want to grab the subject. The person who wants a simple yu sool approach to the Hapkido arts could easily pick up on any of the books by Choe and be satisfied. That does not mean that "I" would be satisfied with them, but some people might be. Taking the Hapkido arts in another vein perhaps you might want a more Mu-Do oriented approach in which case the work of In Sun Seo or Joo Bang Lee might be something to look at. Maybe you are interested in pre-Choi Yong Sul in which case you are looking at the MYTBTJ, or maybe you are really interested in the DRAJJ roots in which case Kondo has a great book out. There simply isn't one single book that encapsulates the entire subject --- soup to nuts--- just like there is no such single book on Karate or Chuan Fa.  The books that may come closest IMO are the two volume sert by He-young Kimm but there again the subject is limited to the yu sool level of the art. FWIW. 

Best Wishes,

Bruce


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## SmellyMonkey (Oct 1, 2004)

Oops!  I really wasn't clear in my first post.

I'm not looking for one book, or focusing on books with techniques/strikes/kicks.  (Actually, I would rather stay away from "picture" books showing techniques.  I get the techniques in class.)

I am interested in books on Korean/Japanese/Chinese history, books that deal with martial art honor, books that discuss general self defense, books that deal with Eastern medicine, books on Taoism/other philosophy, books on stretching and flexibility, etc.  Even textbooks to help me study the Korean language.

I meant to pose a very open-ended question.

Thanks,
Jeremy


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## SmellyMonkey (Oct 18, 2004)

I'm going to give this thread a bump.

After reading "Hapkido Q&A", anyone can see that there are quite a few well read Hapkidoists out there.

Well, I want to be well-read too!  Help me out!  

Feel free to private message me if you want.  

Jeremy


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## glad2bhere (Oct 18, 2004)

Dear Jeremy:

Sorry but your question is still too general for me to help you. Maybe if you could narrow things down a bit I might be able to make some recommendations. 

I know that the one book any person who says that he studies Korean Martial Arts of ANY kind should and must read is the Mu Yei Tobo Tong Ji or "Comprehensive Illustrated Manual of Martial Arts". I can't imagine how anyone could possibly say they study Korean martial arts and not read this book cover to cover and get a feel for what authentic Korean martial practice is and the manner in which it can to be adopted by Korea. Once you have that under your belt then you can move off in a particular direction with some more specialized art.  FWIW. 

Best Wishes, 

Bruce


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## SmellyMonkey (Oct 18, 2004)

Thanks Bruce. I will try and find that book. Hopefully you'll be around for me to ask questions about what I have read?


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## glad2bhere (Oct 18, 2004)

Sure, nottaproblem. The easiest way to pick up on a copy is either to go straight to Turtle Press (they advertise in TKD TIMES) or sometimes Barnes and Nobles or even Borders has copies. You can certainly order it through Amazon and might even get a used copy cheap. It comes in both PB and HC. FWIW. 

Best Wishes, 

Bruce


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## ajs1976 (Oct 18, 2004)

Bruce,

I found this on bn.com, does it look like the right book?

Comprehensive Illustrated Manual of Martial Arts of Ancient Korea: Muye Dobo Tongji
Sang H. Kim (Translator), Yi Duk-Moo, Park Je-Ga
*Product Details:**ISBN: *1880336480*Format: *Paperback, 400pp*Pub. Date: *October 2000*Publisher: *Turtle Press CT

SYNOPSIS
Organized into 24 disciplines comprised of empty hand fighting, weaponry and horsemanship, this is an accurate historical snapshot of the warrior arts of the late 18th century. In 1789, King Chongjo, ruler of the Yi dynasty, ordered General Yi Duk-moo to compile an official textbook on all martial art forms present in Korea. The result, the Muye Dobo Tongji, is the only surviving classical text on the Korean arts of war. Based on the earliest known Korean martial arts treatise, the Muye Chebo (1599), the Muye Dobo Tongji clearly shows the influence of neighboring Japanese and Chinese armies.Through hundreds of wars and invasions, Korean soldiers adapted battlefield skills and tactics from their enemies, creating a unique system. Organized into 24 disciplines comprised of empty hand fighting, weaponry and horsemanship, this is an accurate historical snapshot of the warrior arts of the late 18th century. This marks the first time this volume is available in English. Carefully translated from the original text and illustrated with reproductions of ancient woodblock carvings, this book provides fascinating insights into Korea's martial arts legacy. 
FROM THE CRITICS
Internet Book Watch
In 1789, King Jungjo, ruler of the Yi dynasty (1392-1910), ordered General Yi Duk-moo, Park Je-ga and Pak Dong-soo to compile an official textbook on all martial arts forms then extent in Korea for the purpose of preserving them for future generations. Their efforts became the "Muye Dobo Tongji", and the only surviving classical text on the Korean arts of war. Organized into twenty-four distinct disciplines comprised of empty hand fighting, weaponry and horsemanship, The Comprehensive Illustrated Manual Of Martial Arts Of Ancient Korea is ably translated into English for the benefit of a western readership and a core contribution to any personal, professional, or academic martial arts library collection.


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## glad2bhere (Oct 19, 2004)

Yep, thats the one.  Enjoy. 

Best Wishes, 

Bruce


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## glad2bhere (Oct 19, 2004)

A look down the road........

OK, so lets say that you have read the MYTBTJ. Where can you go from there? Lets take a look at a couple of options. 

From a curricular standpoint you can always tease out a single chaper or weapon and begin to trace the use of that weapon. For instance, the Kwon Bup chapter takes a look at the requirements for what a Korean soldier needed to know as far as MTHanded fighting. Taking a look at the single techniques and then the way they are matched together would be one approach. Looking for other hints by researching Taizu Long Fist in China would be another approach.  In this same way a person could tease out the chapter on staff or spear or any other weapon. 

Let say you want to know more about the history that produced this book. Well there are more than a few personalities identified and in the front of the book is a timeline for organizing your research of these personalities as they impacted Korean tradition. You could just go right down the line and read up on each of those people or kings if you wanted to. The holds true for the foreign contributors. 

Lets say that you want to know more about the culture or society in which these arts developed. There are a host of history books beginning with the SAMKUK YUSA (recently translated into English) all the way up to Lees' book (A NEW HISTORY OF KOREA). And I have not even started with articles and bibliographes........ 

Best Wishes, 

Bruce


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## SmellyMonkey (Oct 21, 2004)

Has anyone heard of Sam Il Shin go?  My master asked me to help her find a copy of the book.  She doesn't care if it is in Korean or English.


From what I understand, it is a very old book (hundreds of years old) that explains the Korean understanding of ki and ki development.

I tried googling for it and looking it up on Amazon.  No luck.

Thanks,
Jeremy


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## hardheadjarhead (Oct 21, 2004)

iron_ox said:
			
		

> Hello Jeremy,
> 
> I my opinion, there is not a single book in print (or out of print) that properly covers Hapkido.  This includes the 1000 page overpriced paperweight by Tedeschi.
> 
> ...




I wouldn't say its overpriced given the quality of the paper and binding.  It is a ponderous work, though.  Must way eight pounds or more.

Tedeschi's book is probably the best one out there with "Hapkido" in the title.  Some of them are awful.  

Some good non-Hapkido books to reference are Joo Bang Lee's Hwarangdo series (out of print, I think), Mike Echanis' series on stick and knife fighting, and Wally Jay's Small Circle Jujitsu books.  George Kirby's books are pretty good too.  Gozo Shioda had a book on Aikido that was interesting.  


Regards,


Steve


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## iron_ox (Oct 21, 2004)

Hello Steve,

I own all the other works you mention and they are quite good.  The Tedeschi book is a farce!  I think he said "lets take every movement possible with the human body and document it and call it Hapkido" - many of hand and kicking techniques can only be done if your opponent is motionless or already dead.  Being a big volume does not make it any better than the others - I mean the Titanic didn't last long did it?

The Echanis book on the knife is a realistic book from a guy that fought with a knife for real, the other "big knife" book is "The Five Rings" - I recommend the 1974 editionfrom The Overlook Press, 13th Edition, Translated by Victor Harris - in my opinion, the best edition.

Sincerely,

Kevin Sogor


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## Kumbajah (Oct 21, 2004)

Not Hapkido books but IMO explain some of the principles behind the art. "Aikido and the Dynamic Sphere" - A. Westbrook & O. Ratti  and "Secrets of Judo - A Text For Instructors And Students"  - Jiichi Watanabe and Lindy Avakian. There needs to be a Hapkido Book like this. Bruce, Rudy, Up for the challenge? 

Brian


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## glad2bhere (Oct 21, 2004)

Derar Jeremy: 

I think its fair to say that if you approach your investigation the way you are you will get into trouble and become very frustrated. Let me use mysaelf as an example. 

I have working to purchase a copy of the Wu Bei Zhi. In Korean it would be pronounced "Moo Bee Zee". If you write the Chinese pronounciation in Han gul and the Korean name in Hangul you get different titles because Hangul is phonetic. Thats one of the reason we have so much trouble with a lot of Korean technique titles.  What you will need to do is have your teacher write out the Chinese or Han-ja characters for the book title. Its a pain in the butt to deal with but I can guarentee that where ever you go this is what librarians and bookstore clerks are going to ask you for before they even begin to start to help you.

Kevin: 

How did you make your choice on "Five Rings"? What did you like to much about that translation?  I have Harris, but recently bought the Cleary translation and find it is much more technically to the point and less "poetic". What about you? 

Best Wishes, 

Bruce


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## iron_ox (Oct 21, 2004)

Hello Bruce,

Personally, have the Cleary to, I think The Book of Five Rings is poetry, life poetry, I don't look at it as a technical manual, but rather a life stategy guide...

Also, newer book about Aikido founder from Shambala Press called Invincible Warrior is my most recent fun read...

Sincerely,

Kevin Sogor


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## greendragon (Oct 21, 2004)

For my money the best book IMHO is the first Hapkido Bible by Dr. He Young Kimm... I am partial to this book for many reasons, but it has good layout, pictures are big, the sequencing is good and basically it is the complete early curriculum of the KHA set forth and put down by Ji Han Jae....
                                                                    Michael Tomlinson


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## Paul B (Oct 23, 2004)

In regards to "static" technique books....Why is it that the Hapkido books I own, or have perused,are organized in an ABC format? They are usually quite "dry",also.

The principles behind the motion(balance/center taking) are rarely, if ever touched on. We all know(or should) that there is so much more to it than "twist wrist this way,strike this way,throw this way",and I do think it's time some of the senior practitioners address this lack of depth.There are just not that many quality Hapkido books out there,outside of the general technique overkill.

I think it would be outstanding to see some conceptual theory and well explained technique,regardless of Kwan or affiliation.It may just broaden our horizons!


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## glad2bhere (Oct 23, 2004)

Dear Paul: 

I think this falls into the category of "be careful what you ask for." Let me give you an example. 

I once did a seminar down at the University of Indiana at Bloomington. Since the folks had been doing Hapkido for a while I decided to introduce them to some Brown Belt )say, about 3rd or 2nd guep material. It was a fiasco. The concepts focused on the six simple converting motions that allow a person to switch techniques first taught off the grab to using those same techniques when punched or struck at. It was very obvious that the students, regardless of how much time they had spent with Hapkido material simply could not get their heads around this information. I think such material is just a bit to "intellectually rich" for the typical students' palate. Let me use a metaphor you might appreciate. 

In using a computer, many times I find that I manual goes into a lot of explanation I don't need. Often I will buy on of the ".....for Idiots" manuals because it simply gives me the information that I need to make a particular thing happen. Now, after I see that same bit consistently make a range of things happen I begin to absorb the concept. However, had someone tried to talk about the concept in and of itself, I would have fallen asleep. 

In the books I write I go as far as defining concepts so that people have some idea of what those things are, but its really up to the individuals teacher to share that information appropriately. I once went to a seminar put on by one of the premier people in the Hapkido community and was astonished at how very little to person mantioned the concepts I was familiar with. I will go one step further and say that the overwhelming numbers of people who purport to teach Hapkido have little clue on the dynamics behind the art that makes it work. Rather they teach the physical part and leave it at that. For myself, I figure this recognition of the existence of this "hidden" work and the hunt for it in instruction is what separates the Hapkido hobbyist from a person who actually practices the art. FWIW. 

Best Wishes, 

Bruce


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## greendragon (Oct 23, 2004)

As most people understand you cannot learn Hapkido from a book.  There is too many hidden variables that are not in the pictures.  A good Hapkido book is only a reference tool nothing more.  I find that someone that doesn't practice Hapkido with a competent instructor can in no way learn by the book.. on the flip side of that if you are already adept in Hapkido and understand the basic concepts involved in the movement and application then the good books make sense.  Your mind can fill in the areas of sequencing between the pictures and you can actually visualize the movement taking place... this comes from doing the movements yourself prior to seeing the book and not the other way around....because of this I don't think you can add the subtle theories and stepping in a Hapkido book, this has to be done on the mat... and by feel... which is one of the human senses used a lot in Hapkido practice.
                                                               Michael Tomlinson


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## Paul B (Oct 23, 2004)

Thanks Guys.  

You both bring up excellent points,and that is what I meant by "know(or should)by now that"....

Don't you guys think that maybe it could help those unfortunate souls "stuck" in a "static" training rut,through an exposure to new ideas? Maybe such a theoretical work might help somebody look at techniques in a new light? Heck...I have nowhere near your guys' experience,but I think it could really do no harm. 

I am aware that some people don't like to think. But maybe such a book could be a valuable reference to those who do.

BTW Bruce....that's funny and truely sad that it was such a fiasco. I have seen that myself when people go from training statically from a grab and then have to use dynamic motion for a strike,why do you think that is?!?:idunno:


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## glad2bhere (Oct 23, 2004)

Dear Paul: 

Its hard to respond in detail to your thoughts, but I think that Michael gave the best general response overall. There is a point at which, if one wants to progress with their Hapkido art (and this is regardless of organizational affiliation) that what is required is to simply experience the movement kinesthetically. This is a huge part of what I was trying to convey on another string when I made such a big thing about my experience in Korea. The amount of Kinesthetic information I received truly exceeded anything that I have had in the last few years. That doesn't mean that it would be impossible to find such an experience in the US, or that there is not the potential for people to do this if they are not doing it already. What I mean is that without focus a person could experience, say, 100 techniques before beginning to realize something new about the technique, whereas with the correct focus a person might have the same experience with, say, 10 repetitions. Many times what I have found in the US is more of a focus on WHAT a person is trying to do rather than HOW a person is doing it. And to pursue investigation along these lines Michael is completely correct. The technique must be experienced for all of the subtlties. Now if a person is only interested in dropping someone on their butt, well gross motor skills can be picked up just about anywhere including books, tapes and in the backyard with friends. 

Now as far as being in a rut, or looking for exposure to new ideas, well thats what people join groups for. In traditional Korean MA the kwan serves this purpose. Here in the West joining an organization is suppose to be the remedy. The problem I have seen is that once a person joins an organization there starts to be a kind of "us" and "them" spirit that takes over and people start talking about who has THE inside information, or is teaching the most "authentic" art. ( I can report that I had a very uncomfortable experience with my own private students exactly along this line.) Having heard this processed a number of different ways in Korea I can honestly report that things only got as far as someone identifying another people as "different". I know that a lot of people make a big deal about why folks can't simply get together and train and exchange ideas and so forth. Unfortunately ego is a fact of life and most folks simply won't let it go. 

As far as the shift from static to dynamic attacks, there are certain things that seem to uniformly get in the way. The biggest thing is that people are instructed in such a way that they will always take the long way to competence in training. By this I mean that most folks who use the Confucian Model for learning simply have TOO much to think about all at once and it DOES take a long time before the mind can sort out what is important and what isn't. I don't know why people continue to use this teaching model as unless a person WANTS to spend their lives to learn an art and keep it vital it doesn't make a lot of sense. When I use the Academic Approach I work to keep things as uniform and simply as possible. In this way I want to help the student to find those all important patterns, make it easier for them to retain information, and find an overall logic as we move from point A to point B. In this way, when its time to do a static technique under dynamic circumstances the person has only a small bit to add, subtract or modify and not a "whole new technique" to learn.  Hope this last paragraph made sense. 

Best Wishes, 

Bruce


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## greendragon (Oct 23, 2004)

That is a good learning tool Bruce,, knowing the why it works is important... I like to teach the techiques and then explain the technique literally from the ground up.. stepping first,, then posture etc... I'll let everyone go through this rudimentary stage for a while and then I'll come back and do what I call "sharpening the knife" which is just my term of fixing the small pieces of their technique.. during this phase I explain plenty of times why and how things work and why and how they don't and or can be countered when some part of the overall technique is wrong... lastly after they can do the technique pretty well I have them teach it to someone else... in the education field we call this "cooperative learning", once you have to verbalize you internalize....   overall I like to teach from general to specific...I have foung if you teach specific first you lose the big picture and quite a few people get confused...
                                       Michael Tomlinson


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## Paul B (Oct 23, 2004)

Yes,that is a great observation about people wanting to know the end result instead of how or why the technique "works".  How can you "will" someone to dig deeper?

I think such a book,if it existed,might just open some eyes,no? Or...if it does exist,where can I find it?   I just think it would be interesting to read,and maybe pick up a new perspective or aspect of a particular technique,ya know? That you can't learn technique from a book is a given,but why not applied theory or simple exposure to another method without having to join a different kwan? Thoughts?


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## glad2bhere (Oct 23, 2004)

Dear Michael: 

When I was in school for my teachers' certification (lo, these many years back...) the term for that approach was "shaping".  I still use it and for the very reason that you pointed out. The fast kids are always ahead of the curve but the teaching model does not leave the slower students in the dirt. 

Dear Paul: 

A good example of the sort of book you might be looking for might be something along the lines of what Nakayama did for Shotokan Karate. Certainly we have Funakoshis' textbook but it tended to be more along the philosophical lines. Nakayamas' book was more of a "this is how we stand, and heres' a good reason for doing it that way."

As far as actually inciting or encouraging people to learn the key is to have them understand how what they are doing will produce a direct benefit. The problem with this reason-driven approach is that when the reason goes away the students motivation goes with it. Purpose-driven motivation comes from inside of the student and is much more powerful, but also harder to reveal and engage. A student in this case a.) knows something fundamental about themselves and b.) wants to change that something into something else. Its not the sort of thing a teacher identifies without getting to know the student pretty well, and there are not that many teachers who are motivated to want to do this in the first place. 

Best Wishes, 

Bruce


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## Paul B (Oct 23, 2004)

glad2bhere said:
			
		

> there are not that many teachers who are motivated to want to do this in the first place.
> 
> Why do you think that is? Is it the "clone" mentality? "This is the way I learned it,so that's the way it is,no need to dig deeper!" I am sincerely interested in senior practitioners' opinions,and please don't "hold back",I am here to learn!
> 
> Also,is there such a book for Hapkido? Thanks.


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## glad2bhere (Oct 23, 2004)

Dear Paul: 

Its what is loosely known as a "dirty contract". 

People gather together under the pretense of learning a martial art except--

a.) the teacher (who is mostly likely unqualified to teach) is only interested in cash flow and will corrupt whatever he is teaching into whatever people will buy if it will keep the money flowing his way. 
&
b.) the student, for their part actually don't want to learn a martial art but will pay for the illusion of learning a martial art. 

The key to the whole ugly interaction is that the student wants to "buy an image" and the the teacher is out to sell an image. The student will give money if the teacher "agrees not to be too demanding". The teacher agrees not to be too demanding if the student will agree to keep the money coming at a reasonably constant rate. 

Pretty simple, cut and dried. Are there actually enough sincere practitioners? Sure but not usually enough in any one single location to keep a decent KMA school going. 

Best Wishes, 

Bruce


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## Paul B (Oct 24, 2004)

That's......yeah,ugly. I have been very fortunate in my studies to not come across these type of people often. Mutual parasitism is indeed a problem in some schools,but don't you think they are the more the exception?

Thanks for your help.


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## glad2bhere (Oct 26, 2004)

Dear Paul: 

".......That's......yeah,ugly. I have been very fortunate in my studies to not come across these type of people often. Mutual parasitism is indeed a problem in some schools,but don't you think they are the more the exception?...." 

I wish they were but the facts speak otherwise. It has become common practice for people who teach Hapkido to organize "childrens' classes" not because these kids can make edcuated decisions about their training or get taught the same curriculum but because it keeps the doors open. It has become common practice to test people with a non-fail attitude such that all folks are moved to the next level (once they pay their fees) whether they have the proper skill level or not. It has become common practice for people to hop from organization to organization and negotiate promotions based on the number of students that they bring to the new organization rather than skill level or knowledge base. It has become common practice for people to mix and match a variety of traditions to address short-comings in understanding or application of Hapkido rather than stick with Hapkido and accept it on its own merits. And when all of these practitioners are weeded out and put to one side who is left in the class. Certainly there are some dedicated practitioners, but again its not enough to keep the doors open and the lights on.  FWIW. 

Best Wishes, 

Bruce


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## howard (Oct 26, 2004)

i would recommend the book _daito-ryu aikijujutsu: hiden mokuroku ikkajo_, by katsuyuki kondo (current head of the mainstream japanese daito ryu organization) and stanley pranin.  check www.aikidojournal.com for info about the book and to order it online.  it's a nice quality paperback, less than $30.

if daito ryu is in fact the source of our art, this book is a great source of original information.  it provides detailed, photographic illustrations of the first 30 formal daito ryu techniques, as well as a brief history of the art.

if nothing else, reading this book will give you a greater appreciation for _aiki_, and will probably lead you to a clearer understanding of how pervasive the concept of _aiki / hapki_ is in hapkido.

unfortunately from our perspective, the book offers nothing to help establish the truth (or falsehood) of the choi / takeda connection.


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## glad2bhere (Oct 26, 2004)

From a little different standpoint you may also like DAITO-RYU AIKIJUJUTSU by Stanley Pranin (ISBN 4-900586-18-8). For those looking for a technical manual this book won't help much. What it is are transcriptions of interviews with some of the genuine greats from the DRAJJ discipline. Sometimes, when a person wants to seek out traditions it pays to hear the same story told a number of times by a number of people. Its not that one person is telling the truth and everyone else is lying. Rather there are many views and versions of what happens and hearing a number of views brings us closer to the most accurate history. FWIW. 

Best Wishes, 

Bruce


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## Paul B (Oct 26, 2004)

Thank you for your recommendations,guys.

I do have to say that if a book covers Aiki,I more than likely have it,or have read it.  I do have a couple of videos by Kondo Sensei,and they are spectacular!(at least to me)

 I am familiar with the Aiki "concepts" that are readily apparent in Hapkido,but was wondering why that has never been addressed in book about Hapkido,specifically? The great leap I see between Aiki/Hapki is in application,but the theory is all there,but rarely exposed.


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