# Muay Thai Round Kick.



## arnisador (Feb 21, 2002)

I was taught the Muay Thai round kick in JKD the other night. Does anyone here practcie it? Any advice on perfecting it? I still throw a snappy roundhouse kick with my instep from years of karate and it may be a hard habit to break.


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## KumaSan (Feb 23, 2002)

Check out this thread. Hope it makes sense. If any of that isn't like what you were taught, let me know the differences. I'm still learning too.


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## arnisador (Feb 23, 2002)

Thanks, I had forgotten about that thread!


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## ThuNder_FoOt (Apr 7, 2002)

Hi everyone, I'm just posting in request to Kumasan.

I'll try to point out a few subtle differences that I have noticed. Well,in the first part of MT, the pivot of the hip begins at the start of the kick. AS you chamber you begin to pivot so you can generate more power. Upon impact, you continue into your target until there is almost no recoil, then pivot your hips back to facing your opponent and drop your leg down straight in front or in back and resume fighting stance (no rechamber position). During this time, you are in on-guard in fighting stance, and can easily launch another kick if the situation calls for it.

With TKD, you don't pivot on the chambering portion of the kick. In TKD, you bring the kick up chambered like a front snap kick, then pivot your hip as you extend your leg. So the first half of the TKD roundhouse kick, is actually a front kick. Then upon impact, you continue into your target until about half recoil. You use the rest of the recoil energy to recover, getting in a quick rechambered position. From this crane stance, you are pretty much on-guard in fighting stance, as TKD uses crane stance for advanced offense and defense techniques. Even so, you could still place your leg down, while still ready to lauch another kick if need be.

Basically MT kicks seem to dig in a bit more than TKD kicks. TKD kicks do have more potential to be faster because they travel a shorter distance, and the reverse that MT kicks have the potential to be stronger because they travel a further distance. To tell the truth, both kicks pretty much have the potential for the same speed and pretty much same power. The only thing that might differ would be the initiation of the kicks.

Generally speaking though, MT kicks are a bit stronger, and TKD kicks are a bit faster.

Let me know if you guys have any other view on this. I think its a very controversial subject, as this was only my personal experience.
:asian: :asian:


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## KumaSan (Apr 7, 2002)

Thank you sir, that's exactly the sort of information Iwas looking for. I'm not interested in the "you're style sucks, mine is better" kind of junk. I appreciate the info.
:asian:


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## ThuNder_FoOt (Apr 10, 2002)

Thats good to here. I'm glad you appreciate the martial arts, because one can grow tired of trivial crap bewtween arts. So you train Muay Thai right?

Have you experienced a similar situation in your training, another kicking style... then MT? I often find myself throwing some TKD combinations, with a couple exceptions. They seem to work well! I love the feel of both the arts.  Most boxers are used to standing at mid-distance, but my stance is at far distance, because of my TKD. Now I have a better understanding altogether.

Also, do you feel a tingling sensation in you r striking area rite before you strike? I've noticed it before, but  recently the feeling has been getting stronger for me. It doesn't hurt at all, it actually kinda tickles... I just wonder if anyone else feels this.


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## KumaSan (Apr 10, 2002)

I don't have very much direct experience with other kicking styles. A friend showed me the basics of performing the sidekick, but that's about all I have. I have sparred people that had a TKD background, and the big problem I have is the number of different kicks. They can easily catch you off guard. If you get locked into a MT mindset, then you only expect teeps and round kicks. The axe kick or side kick (just to name two) can catch you completely unawares. I like that, it forces me to keep an open mind.

No, I've never got a tingly feeling right before striking. Sounds kind of odd.


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## Damian Mavis (Apr 11, 2002)

I teach Tae Kwon do but train at a Muay Thai school.  I agree with the poster that said tkd kicks are faster and muay thai is stronger, that has been my experience too.  But i think you were asking for advice on how to perfect the Muay thai roundkick?  

Hmmm.. when I first joined Muay Thai I found it extremely difficult to make the transition from tkd to thai.  Basically I just really focused on keeping the knee slightly bent and keeping the shin prominently exposed for the striking area without straightening my leg on impact.  The other major concept I kept in my mind was really turning the hip and shoulder into the kick.  In TKD we often fudge a little and dont turn all the way to increase speed.  Other than that I just practiced it a zillion times until it became natural.  My best advice to anyone about any technique is always pratice it over and over until your body recognises it as a natural movement.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD


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## ThuNder_FoOt (Apr 14, 2002)

Wow Damien, that's my exact training situation. I teach TKD, but I'm currently learning MT along with perfecting my TKD techniques under tutolage of my Master. I have never really had a problem with executing an MT kick from TKD. I practice constantly to keep my MT separate from my TKD and vice versa. For some reason, this seems to help me when I want to mix up in combinations. Keeping the two martial arts separate, allows me to better transfer from one techniqe to another between arts if necessary.

So, you too feel that MT kicks are stronger, and TKD are faster? Yes, I've noticed in my MT class I can usually score the kick faster than my fellow juniors and seniors. Obviously, I'm speaking in general terms, but I openly share my knowledge with my classmates, so they may be better prepared against various styles.

I must admit, I am more skilled in TKD, as I have more training time in TKD. Mixed with leg kicks, you can take full advantage of TKD kick cuts and proceed to set up from just about anything!!!! Do you find your TKD techniquea valuable in the MT ring? What are some of your views of associating MT with TKD?  
    :asian:


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## Damian Mavis (Apr 14, 2002)

In the ring I find hammer kick and sidekick catches my opponent off guard alot.  The hammer kick comes from an angle they don't train to defend from and the sidekick can look like a round kick and then go up the middle while they are shielding on the side for a round kick so it works pretty good too.  Spinning hook kick is good too...but I find that unless I use it as a counter and full speed and power (no pulling that kick) it won't work.  If I counter with it full speed it lands...the only problem is it is dangerous if I catch them in the face instead of the head gear.  When sparring with a buddy I won't use it unless I'm goofing around and pull it...it's the kind of kick you gotta go full power or not at all.  When we do serious sparring I use it if the opurtunity arises and hope I don't hit a soft target.  One of my students caught a full power heel in the face in my TKD class and he had to get a steel plate put into his face to keep his eye from sinking into his head (the cheek was cracked and shifting).  Not something I want to do to someone unless it's life and death.

In general TKD gave me a huge foundation to learn Muay Thai.  The boxing aspects and clich knee were harder to learn than the kicking techniques thanks to 12 years of kicking training in TKD.

You have the same instructor for TKD and MT? Or 2 different instructors?  And do you run your own school or teach for your TKD instructor? 

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD


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## ThuNder_FoOt (Apr 15, 2002)

Damien,

I actually have two separate teachers for  TKD and MT. My TKD teacher does't really have knowledge of MT, although I did mention to him that I was taking up the MA. He was a little disappointed at first, because he thought I was leaving TKD. Ever since then, he has increased my training vastly, so I don't forget my TKD training... because every now and then, I accidentally slip up and throw a MT technique which are always illegal.

I am an instructor (not to be confused with chokyonim), but I don't own my own school. My master asked me to open  one, but I'm no where near ready for that kind of responsibility. Not only that, but I feel that I need major improvement on my techniques before I can consider myself good enough to operate my own school. I may be selfish, but I want to have more time to improve my own technique, instead of trying to improve other's. Also, with me working under his school, I can easily have time to study other systems while still getting the benefits of teaching and learning TKD.

I totally agree on the part of MT boxers not being able to defend against such kicks. I notice more and more MT boxers training in TKD so that they may expand their range of techniques, as well as being able to defend against them. Do you find it easier to throw an effective TKD roundhouse or a MT roundhouse? I seemed to be able to pick up on the MT roundhouse very easily... its actually easier than the TKD version, for me... but ALOT slower. AS far as the clinch techniques, they are fairly simple, but its a little hard to get into that mind set at first.  

So how about you? 2 instructors or just 1? do you own your own school? Also, do you find yourself watching Ernie Reyes Jr. alot, as he has a TKD background, but is now competing in Fairtex? I've gotten a few inspirations from him. :asian: :asian:


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## Damian Mavis (Apr 15, 2002)

I unfortunately had to leave my TKD instructor (after training with him for 9 years).  So I don't actually attend a TKD school anymore, instead I get together with other instructors in my city to train and spar with; I also train with my students but it's not the same as training with a fellow instructor.  I teach in the ITF and in my city the instructors often get together for black belt trainings.  My ability and technique is light years ahead of what it was when I was training under my instructor, but he gave me the foundation.

As for Muay Thai I train at a Muay Thai academy that is under the Dan Inosanto/Ajarn Chai family tree.  I train every day.

I find the Thai roundkick slower than a snappy TKD round kick but not a whole lot slower..... yes most Thai boxers kick pretty slow compared to TKD but I've seen professional Thai boxers that kick extremely fast.  I think it just has to do with skill level.

I don't own my own school... I rent.  I'd love to watch Ernie Reyes Jr. but I have no idea were to go to see him, give me some links! 

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD


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## Shadowdean (Apr 25, 2002)

Interesting, in my school, the TKD roundhouse is almost a hybrid...the leg is chambered, but there is no true 2 part round house..we leave back a bit and continually drive the hip through the kick.


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## nasigoreng (May 8, 2002)

The 2 are actually very different. The Jun Fan kickboxing kick is also a straight leg kick so it  LOOKS like a MT roundhouse. 

The difference is the MT roundhouse kick generates more power by 'pushing through'  the target with the hips.   

The MT kicker will often take a small  step towards opnt. and  to the side ( like defensive triangle in arnis).

Whereas the j.f. kickbxr is more or less squared up with the opnt when throwing the kick,  the MT fighter on the other hand is not. I've found that this orientation puts the MT fighter's oppnt. inside the kicker's  'power arc' = the oppnt will absorb a lot more energy from the kick.

The TKD kickers are fast and they've got some really confusing kicks. But MT kicks, even if blocked, will drive the opponent backwards to the ropes.

any comments?


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## sweeper (May 18, 2002)

"The Jun Fan kickboxing kick" ?

I have always been told to throw a hook kick in as tight of an arc as posibal, basicly trying to get your foot to travel as close to a strate linne as you can, so it doesn't swing like a MT round kick. Am I thinking of the same kick as you are?

Also question about TKD round kicks. I don't know the first thing about TKD besides 1: it's korean 2: there are lots of kicks ;-) . Now I have a freind who practices TKD and one day we were talking about the way he trains and the way I train. Anyway we got on the subject of kicks and "non-telegraphic" kicks came up, basicly an unchambered speed kick, he didn't demonstrate but I was wondering, is this something particular to his school? Or is that a typical TKD method of kicking? And if so why does everyone say TKD fighters chamber their legs?


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## Damian Mavis (May 18, 2002)

Hello again Sweeper 

TKD can chamber the leg but you don't have to.  We are taught to chamber but if your looking for tricks to sneak in some kicks that your opponent might not see coming as well then not chambering is a good trick.  It could be particular to his school or his style of TKD but I have often kicked unchambered in TKD and it was just a strategic way of kicking at that moment.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD


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## sweeper (May 20, 2002)

so than it is a part of TKD training.

I mean to say that TKD fighters kick from a chambered position is incorrect when comparing to another art because they don't only kick from a chambered position.


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## Damian Mavis (May 20, 2002)

Honestly I think you can label TKD as a chambering art.... I just happen to use unchambered kicks sometimes.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD


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## sweeper (May 20, 2002)

ok nevermind thanb 

thanks for the info.


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## arnisador (Aug 2, 2002)

I'm finally getting this--someone at the school worked one-on-one with me on it recently and it clicked. the power in it is truly impressive.


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## arnisador (Aug 3, 2002)

A bit off-topic, but "The Man with the Golden Gun" (with Roger Moore as James Bond) is on and it has some pretty good Muay Thai action going on while Bond and his opponent talk.


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## MartialArtist (Sep 6, 2002)

> _Originally posted by sweeper _
> 
> *"The Jun Fan kickboxing kick" ?
> 
> ...


Not everyone does that.  Everyone does chamber their leg, but not all the time.  It really depends on the environment and the situation, and you will either use a speed or the power one depending on those factors.


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## Bagatha (Sep 19, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Damian Mavis _
> 
> *I teach Tae Kwon do but train at a Muay Thai school.  I agree with the poster that said tkd kicks are faster and muay thai is stronger, that has been my experience too.  But i think you were asking for advice on how to perfect the Muay thai roundkick?
> 
> ...




Really? I thought they were pretty close, like VERY close. The only difference I thought was that the Muay Thai round kick at the moment of impact had the kicking knee still bent. While the TKD side turning was close to straight. Maybe it is just the combination of instructors (both the MT and the TKD instructors are just teaching it similar). Everyone has different experiences though.


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## Damian Mavis (Sep 19, 2002)

Well in ITF TKD we teach you to turn your hip, chamber your leg and release while striking with the instep.  In muay Thai I've been taught to not chamber the leg, snap the hip and turn my shoulder and hip all the way into the kick.  Not to mention that you launch the TKD one from way back and launch the MT one almost from the hip in a squared off stance.  And the whole knee slightly bent thing for MT.  Those are the 2 technical ways of doing those kicks relative to their art...  Ask your 2 instructors for all the details on how to exactly stand when doing the kick and how to launch it, see what they say and let me know.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD


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## Bagatha (Sep 19, 2002)

actually.....thats what we did this week(in TKD anyways). Ok there is that "fluff kick" for sparring(my personal description)...or the cut kick..like a cross between the front and the turning. The actual side turning we use in patterns....ok your right @ chambering there... and then the board breaking one....now this is the one that I thought was close to the MT one, basically all leg, little bend in the knee.<-the one we did this week. This evening @ MT class, the instructor explained the round kick as being in perfect line with the body and the foot fully pivoted (like the side kick). In this respect I thought the 2 were identical, except 1 was bent knee at contact, and the other wasnt. Where it starts from has never really been a topic in my TKD classes... I will ask and get back to you on that. It always started from wherever your foot was...which was usually in a basic fighting stance when sparring. Whatever was comfortable when breaking. 

Oh yeah, we were taught that the tool was not restricted to the instep, it went from halfway of the top of your foot, to halfway up the shin(in TKD). So ok there is another difference, as MT does not include the foot at all (from what Ive seen so far). But still....pretty close. I feel quite comfortable doing it, as opposed to the front kick....whoa now there is a big difference I have to get used to! I feel so akward...like Ive never been in MA before when I do that one. lol.


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## Damian Mavis (Sep 19, 2002)

Ya its alot of small differences and I guess it really makes no difference to someone that is learning both as they go.  For me I spent 10 years in TKD learning it a certain way so when I started to learn the Muay Thai way it was a whole new kick to me.... even though they look the same to most people.  The front kick your having trouble with.. you mean the Teep kick?

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD


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## Bagatha (Sep 19, 2002)

*sigh* yeaah....thats the one...

Trying desperatley not to chamber....buuut....doing it a bizillion times one way and then having to change it is difficult. That and the biggest part for me is doing it on my toes+leaning back slightly (so I was taught), I keep falling backward onto my heel when I lean back. Im a total noob. lol.


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## Damian Mavis (Sep 19, 2002)

Well you're supposed to lean back to extend your leg a little farther for greater range and hopefully intercept your opponent while he's throwing a technique (like the round kick) and to keep your head out of range of his punches while your doing it.  When you do it that way you should be balanced with the leg further out to counter the action of leaning back and making it all even again.  If you over extended without leaning back you would fall forward.  Any of that make sense or am I just confusing you more?

I actually love the teep kick, it's one of the few things I can do well the easily translated from TKD to MT.  If you've got good timing you can really keep your opponent off balance.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD


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## Bagatha (Sep 19, 2002)

It makes sense, I just suck lol. Ill keep practicing.


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## Damian Mavis (Sep 19, 2002)

Bah no such thing as sucking, just learning and getting better every day.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD


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