# Floating Elbow Theory-Applied



## futsaowingchun (Dec 30, 2021)

In this video I show how the "Floating Elbow" can be applied in a simple direct manner..Which is a follow up to my original video "Floating Elbow Theory".


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## Kung Fu Wang (Dec 30, 2021)

You really should put up this video fist. The purpose of your floating elbow is clear to understand in this video. You just use your floating elbow to deflect an incoming straight punch, you then punch back at the same time.

I like to use my Tang Shou to "bounce" my opponent's incoming straight punch. Instead of using a sharp 90 degree angle, you just use a smooth circle. But the goal is all the same. I use it as a "metal strategy". You use it as a "water strategy".


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## futsaowingchun (Dec 30, 2021)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> You really should put up this video fist. The purpose of your floating elbow is clear to understand in this video. You just use your floating elbow to deflect an incoming straight punch, you then punch back at the same time.
> 
> I like to use my Tang Shou to "bounce" my opponent's incoming straight punch. Instead of using a sharp 90 degree angle, you just use a smooth circle. But the goal is all the same. I use it as a "metal strategy". You use it as a "water strategy".


Ok Cool..I like to see your method. I will make some other videos to show a more complex way of using the Floating Elbow..


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## Oily Dragon (Dec 31, 2021)

I'm going to get unreal here but...."floating elbow theory"?

You've got me hooked, master of the Fut Sao.  What do you know about really, really, big birds, and kung fu?









						Peng (mythology) - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


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## geezer (Dec 31, 2021)

futsaowingchun said:


> In this video I show how the "Floating Elbow" can be applied in a simple direct manner..Which is a follow up to my original video "Floating Elbow Theory".


Glad you posted this. It clears things up a lot. At least as much as a video alone without "crossing bridges" can.

What you are doing_ appears_ a lot like the "elastic" or "springy" energy used by in the lineage I trained ...that is if your arm and body movement are maintaining forward pressure and compressing and moving in response to the pressure of the incoming punch... essentially a soft and flexible interpretation of _Loi lau hoi sung, lat sau jik chung_. 

On the other hand, if you are releasing your forward pressure and using your _own_ force while pulling your own arm back with your "floating elbow" ...then you are not working with the same energy that I have trained.


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## futsaowingchun (Jan 1, 2022)

geezer said:


> Glad you posted this. It clears things up a lot. At least as much as a video alone without "crossing bridges" can.
> 
> What you are doing_ appears_ a lot like the "elastic" or "springy" energy used by in the lineage I trained ...that is if your arm and body movement are maintaining forward pressure and compressing and moving in response to the pressure of the incoming punch... essentially a soft and flexible interpretation of _Loi lau hoi sung, lat sau jik chung_.
> 
> On the other hand, if you are releasing your forward pressure and using your _own_ force while pulling your own arm back with your "floating elbow" ...then you are not working with the same energy that I have trained.


NO, Am not doing what you are saying. Am not using forward energy or compressing as you say.I  allow the force to travel to its target, I do not stop it ..I simple go with his force then redirect it with my floating  elbow. its like an exchange of Yin and Yang. I dont impose my force on my opponent.


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## geezer (Jan 1, 2022)

futsaowingchun said:


> NO, Am not doing what you are saying. Am not using forward energy or compressing as you say.I  allow the force to travel to its target, I do not stop it ..I simple go with his force then redirect it with my floating  elbow. its like an exchange of Yin and Yang. I dont impose my force on my opponent.


Nope. Perhaps we are not understanding each other?

I'm not talking about _"imposing my force"_. Not at all.  The forward "springy energy" I'm referencing can be very _yin ..._soft and yielding. But if you have no forward pressure, that is, if you just _follow _their energy, you 1. cannot_ borrow_ their force, and 2. if instead of receiving their energy, you try to follow their movement you are essentially "chasing hands". In this case, if your hand is freed, you do not automatically spring forward to their center (lat sau jik chung).

Another way to look at "springy energy" is to consider what a spring is  even a very soft spring. It is a simple energy storage device. When you press into a spring it bends or compresses and yields (yin) and then when freed it snaps back and recycles the energy it received.

If your tan-sau softly compresses and your body turns aside receiving energy then you are borrowing power which can be recycled and _returned to the sender._ It also the lyrics to a great old song!

Now I never studied the WSL lineage, so my understanding of "Loi lau hoi sung, lat sau jik chung" may be a little different than theirs. We have another saying that may clarify this:

1. First you get rid of your own force.
2. Then you get rid of your opponent's force.
3. And only then can you learn to _borrow_ their force.

To this some, such as Emin Boztepe have added:

4. Then add back in your own force!


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## seasoned (Jan 1, 2022)

futsaowingchun said:


> NO, Am not doing what you are saying. Am not using forward energy or compressing as you say.I  allow the force to travel to its target, I do not stop it ..I *simple go with his force then redirect it with my floating  elbow. *its like an exchange of Yin and Yang. I dont impose my force on my opponent.


Am I missing something here. Below is my comment in your other thread,
Floating Elbow Theory​I think the name "Floating Elbow theory" is what is throwing people off. As I watch the video you put up it is no more then the proper way to preform* sticky hands with a partner. (Adhere. follow, redirect) your partner,* is all done within our open hand... "blocking"... techniques.


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## Oily Dragon (Jan 1, 2022)

geezer said:


> essentially a soft and flexible interpretation of _Loi lau hoi sung, lat sau jik chung_.


Jik kiu is the Direct Bridge.  So I agree.


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## futsaowingchun (Jan 1, 2022)

geezer said:


> Nope. Perhaps we are not understanding each other?
> 
> I'm not talking about _"imposing my force"_. Not at all.  The forward "springy energy" I'm referencing can be very _yin ..._soft and yielding. But if you have no forward pressure, that is, if you just _follow _their energy, you 1. cannot_ borrow_ their force, and 2. if instead of receiving their energy, you try to follow their movement you are essentially "chasing hands". In this case, if your hand is freed, you do not automatically spring forward to their center (lat sau jik chung).
> 
> ...


I   would have to see someone doing what your saying, perhaps its similar. I dont follow the hand i just let my oppoent move my hand..Kind of like hitch'in a ride then when hes at his full yang I recyle it.. kind of like push hands..I have a few other basic drills i do to show the floating elbow..unfortunately, YouTube suspended my acount so I cant upload any more videos..I will have to try to open a new one if they let me..


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## Dirty Dog (Jan 1, 2022)

futsaowingchun said:


> I   would have to see someone doing what your saying, perhaps its similar. I dont follow the hand i just let my oppoent move my hand..Kind of like hitch'in a ride then when hes at his full yang I recyle it.. kind of like push hands..I have a few other basic drills i do to show the floating elbow..unfortunately, YouTube suspended my acount so I cant upload any more videos..I will have to try to open a new one if they let me..


Were you misbehaving?
Suspended means temporary, and your account will reopen when you've been suspended for however long the YouTube people decreed.


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## futsaowingchun (Jan 1, 2022)

Dirty Dog said:


> Were you misbehaving?
> Suspended means temporary, and your account will reopen when you've been suspended for however long the YouTube people decreed.


I've received a letter from Google..It's permanent..


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## geezer (Jan 1, 2022)

futsaowingchun said:


> I   would have to see someone doing what your saying, perhaps its similar. I don't follow the *hand i just let my opponent move my hand..Kind of like hitch'in a ride *then when hes at his full yang I recyle it.. kind of like push hands..


^^^^ _This _(the bolded section above) is what I'm talkin' about!

This is what we try to train with our soft, "springy energy" ....you stick to your opponent's bridge with flexible forward "spring" and let your opponent's heavy, "yang" energy press and move your arm "like hitchin' a ride" ....so your opponent actually makes your defense ...in a sense he defeats himself if you do it right! Then your arm snaps free and gives his borrowed force back to him. "Recycling."

This _concept_ was shared with my old sifu by the aging Yip Man. So the _idea_ you are working with, if not the specific details, is deeply rooted in old Wing Chun. 



futsaowingchun said:


> I have a few other basic drills i do to show the floating elbow..unfortunately, YouTube suspended my acount so I cant upload any more videos..I will have to try to open a new one if they let me..


Bad YouTube!


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## futsaowingchun (Jan 1, 2022)

geezer said:


> ^^^^ _This _(the bolded section above) is what I'm talkin' about!
> 
> This is what we try to train with our soft, "springy energy" ....you stick to your opponent's bridge with flexible forward "spring" and let your opponent's heavy, "yang" energy press and move your arm "like hitchin' a ride" ....so your opponent actually makes your defense ...in a sense he defeats himself if you do it right! Then your arm snaps free and gives his borrowed force back to him. "Recycling."
> 
> ...


That's great then  I guess am still doing Wing Chun. 

BTW off topic but any fans of the Cobra Kai  Netflix show..Just watched all of season 4 in 1 day great cliff hanger at the end.. Am addicted to that show..It stink have to wait a whole year for season 5


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## geezer (Jan 1, 2022)

futsaowingchun said:


> I've received a letter from Google..It's permanent..


Never had a channel on Youtube. What was their beef?


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## futsaowingchun (Jan 2, 2022)

geezer said:


> Never had a channel on Youtube. What was their beef?


Just said I broke communities guidelines..


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## geezer (Jan 2, 2022)

futsaowingchun said:


> Just said I broke communities guidelines..


Hey_ Futsao-_ I was just watching some stuff on YouTube and came across short video by Paul Fernandez who trained under my old sifu. 

Some of Paul's movement here reminded me a little of what you show in video posted above about "floating elbow" application. It's short enough to watch the whole thing, but I was especially referring to the section from about 2:20 to 3:00.  

Watch how his arm and body relax, flex and turn slightly to absorb and then release the energy received. Unfortunately, the action takes place on the far side of his body away from the camera, but you can still get a sense for the movement.


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## Oily Dragon (Jan 3, 2022)

"Wing Tchun".  Errgh.


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## geezer (Jan 3, 2022)

Oily Dragon said:


> "Wing Tchun".  Errgh.


Well, the branch he studied used the romanization, _Wing Tsun_, but they copyrighted that spelling so anyone breaking away from their European WT organization (EWTO) had to change the spelling. Many of these instructors wanted to still use the letters "WT" to indicate their specific lineage but changed the spelling to avoid legal problems. This resulted in some really bizarre spellings!   

Here in the states, the guy I was associated with was hit by a really nasty and expensive lawsuit when he continued using the WT name. So he switched to calling his stuff "Ving Tsun" as GM Yip Man had done.

When I left his organization, I decided just to use:


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## Oily Dragon (Jan 3, 2022)

geezer said:


> Well, the branch he studied used the romanization, _Wing Tsun_, but they copyrighted that spelling so anyone breaking away from their European WT organization (EWTO) had to change the spelling. Many of these instructors wanted to still use the letters "WT" to indicate their specific lineage but changed the spelling to avoid legal problems. This resulted in some really bizarre spellings!
> 
> Here in the states, the guy I was associated with was hit by a really nasty and expensive lawsuit when he continued using the WT name. So he switched to calling his stuff "Ving Tsun" as GM Yip Man had done.
> 
> When I left his organization, I decided just to use: View attachment 27885


It's my own private uncanny valley, I know a dozen pronunciations of springtime, and some of these romanizations just sound wrong.

The closest to "Tchun" is Wu or Middle Chinese and would sound more like "tshen", but even that doesn't match up.

I've noticed Wing Chun schools run by Chinese people never have this problem.


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## Wing Woo Gar (Jan 3, 2022)

futsaowingchun said:


> I've received a letter from Google..It's permanent..


Why?


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## geezer (Jan 3, 2022)

Oily Dragon said:


> I've noticed Wing Chun schools run by Chinese people never have this problem.


Dunno. A lot of the romanization used by Cantonese speakers from Hong Kong don't work at all when given a North American pronunciation. For example_ bart cham do _ ...Americans pronounce the letter "r" very differently from a typical British accent. And regardless, most of us _gwailo_ are better off keeping quiet instead of butchering Chinese terms.

It seems that relatively few foreigners ever do justice to Chinese pronunciation (Mandarin or Cantonese).

BTW are you Chinese, or did you grow up in a Chinese speaking area? You seam to have a great deal of knowledge about the language.


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## geezer (Jan 3, 2022)

Wing Woo Gar said:


> Why?


Maybe they think foot-sow is a fetish?


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## Wing Woo Gar (Jan 3, 2022)

geezer said:


> Maybe they think foot-sow is a fetish?


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## Wing Woo Gar (Jan 3, 2022)

geezer said:


> Maybe they think foot-sow is a fetish?


Mmm mm! I like pigs feet, sure do, nothing dirty about it.


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## Oily Dragon (Jan 3, 2022)

geezer said:


> Dunno. A lot of the romanization used by Cantonese speakers from Hong Kong don't work at all when given a North American pronunciation. For example_ bart cham do _ ...Americans pronounce the letter "r" very differently from a typical British accent. And regardless, most of us _gwailo_ are better off keeping quiet instead of butchering Chinese terms.
> 
> It seems that relatively few foreigners ever do justice to Chinese pronunciation (Mandarin or Cantonese).
> 
> BTW are you Chinese, or did you grow up in a Chinese speaking area? You seam to have a great deal of knowledge about the language.


I'm not Chinese, but I have lived around speaking peoples for a long time now.  I've been studying Chinese as a language for about ten years.

The Chinese can say something a thousand ways, it's another thing to hear the difference between "chun" and"tchun" in my head.  It's just like when people call it a "frigerator".  The spelling check kicks in.


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## geezer (Jan 4, 2022)

Oily Dragon said:


> I'm not Chinese, but I have lived around speaking peoples for a long time now.  I've been studying Chinese as a language for about ten years.
> 
> The Chinese can say something a thousand ways, it's another thing to hear the difference between "chun" and"tchun" in my head.  It's just like when people call it a "frigerator".  The spelling check kicks in.


That's _figerator,_ thank you very much!


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## futsaowingchun (Jan 4, 2022)

geezer said:


> Hey_ Futsao-_ I was just watching some stuff on YouTube and came across short video by Paul Fernandez who trained under my old sifu.
> 
> Some of Paul's movement here reminded me a little of what you show in video posted above about "floating elbow" application. It's short enough to watch the whole thing, but I was especially referring to the section from about 2:20 to 3:00.
> 
> Watch how his arm and body relax, flex and turn slightly to absorb and then release the energy received. Unfortunately, the action takes place on the far side of his body away from the camera, but you can still get a sense for the movement.


yeah i watched the video..its a bit of what am doing when hes using his right tan sao..he retracts his elbow a bit..


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## futsaowingchun (Jan 4, 2022)

Wing Woo Gar said:


> Why?


google did not give any reason other then I broke their community guidelines..I lost a lot of private vidos of me training with my sifu that can not be replaced..


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## Wing Woo Gar (Jan 5, 2022)

futsaowingchun said:


> google did not give any reason other then I broke their community guidelines..I lost a lot of private vidos of me training with my sifu that can not be replaced..


That seems unfair. Sorry for that loss.


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## hunschuld (Jan 10, 2022)

I am confused. Not by the poster. This seems to be an attempt to address some peoples chi sau issues but rather by the reply's

For us Chi Sau is a drill to help learn fighting skills. the point is not to be good at chi sau and learn chi sau games. How does this floating elbow stop a jab,cross ,hook, real wing chun punch  by someone that understands spiral energy . How does removing a  key to wing chun combat, elbow position and distance, help you fight.  How does bringing your elbow back to your body  help you not get thrown by a  player of Judo, greco roman wrestler or shuai jiao? Yes  your elbow can float within the context of proper distance and position.

Relaxation and softness are accomplished by use of your lower body allowing energy to flow through your upper body  to the ground or cycled back into your opponent and allowing energy to flow up from the lower body and out through your arms. How do these modifications improve upon the natural structure and use of the body in actual combat?


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## Eric_H (Jan 12, 2022)

futsaowingchun said:


> google did not give any reason other then I broke their community guidelines..I lost a lot of private vidos of me training with my sifu that can not be replaced..


You might have luck getting some of them from the internet archive.


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