# Can martial arts help a 59 year old beer gut?



## Bebe (Sep 21, 2006)

Hello everyone,
I'm not a martial artist and never desired to be one. That said, I'm exploring martial arts for two reasons;
1) First, at 59 years old and overweight with a beer gut that I swore I'd never have, I want to slim up and get in much better shape. As a younger man, I was trim and fit as a Vietnam soldier, police officer, and security officer. I played several sports well and was into bodybuilding. I still work out ocassionally but my joints hurt with the effort and make workouts unpleasant. I want to know if martial arts can help such an old beer gut as me.
2) I live in the Chicago area and I'm worried about my aging ability to protect myself on the street like I used to. I was a fair wrestler and street fighter in my youth but now I'm old and grey, stiff, fat, and slow with self defense skills. I can't carry any weapon in Illinois which is very strict in such laws. I still have broad shoulders, big arms, and a big chest but they are more window dressing than quick-fire weapons. I was thinking of developing my hands into some "iron fist or hand knife" weapon. Is this feasible for a man like me or not? 

Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks.


----------



## Andrew Green (Sep 21, 2006)

SHort answer yes.

But, there is a "but"...

Different classes will tackle fitness in different ways.  Some classes will get you in great shape, others seem to create beer guts...


----------



## Bebe (Sep 21, 2006)

Mr. Green,
What do you recommend for slimming up, and what would you recommend for a hand-oriented self-defense martial art?


----------



## Andrew Green (Sep 21, 2006)

I'd lean towards boxing.  It's fairly easy on the body, unless you start sparring hard.  The fitness aspect is always there, the coaches tend to have a good knowledge of sports science and it's easily one of the more effective arts.  

It's also something that can be done in varying degrees, you can start off doing fitness work, hitting the bag, working pads, etc.  And get in good shape, learn lots and have fun.  If at some point you decide to spar, it can be done at any level of contact.  

I'd not reccomend anything that relies heavy on kicks, which is rough on the knees, more so if you start late.  Same for throwing heavy arts like Judo, can be very hard on the knees.  They might be good arts, but at 59 they might not be the best choices to stay uninjured in.

If you want a more traditional approach Okinawan Karate might be a good choice, but really it all depends on the club.  Things aren't very "standardized" in terms of how everyone trains.


----------



## Brian R. VanCise (Sep 21, 2006)

You can definately lose that beer gut.  Bottom line you need to look around and find a martial art that suits you.  Andrew Green's suggestions were all good ones.  Go around and check out a few schools and find a school and instructor that you like and really want to train with.  Once that happens and you begin training that extra weight will probably come off.  Good luck.


----------



## Drac (Sep 21, 2006)

My introduction to MA insprired me to get my fat butt to a gym and start pumping iron...The combination of the 2 really helped...


----------



## Kacey (Sep 21, 2006)

First, welcome!

Second, any martial art can give you tools to help you lose weight, but some will do better than others.  Which one will work for you depends largely on what interests you; otherwise you won't stick with it.  Also, how much you put into it will make a big difference too.


----------



## Kenpodoc (Sep 21, 2006)

Cut the calories to lose the gut, exercise to get in shape and regain balance and coordination with martial arts training.

Jeff


----------



## Jade Tigress (Sep 22, 2006)

MOD NOTE -

Thread moved to Beginner's Corner.

Pamela Piszczek
MT Moderator


----------



## Grenadier (Sep 22, 2006)

Diet and excercise.  That can help reduce the beer gut.  

In all honesty, though, the key here is to eat a well-balanced diet, and to get a good workout.  Yes, this means cutting calories, but too many people try to literally starve themselves, and end up not getting enough nutrients, or lacking the energy.  

Given your physical situation, you still seem to be in somewhat decent shape, and could certainly hop into a martial arts program.  Any of the Okinawan or Japanese Karate systems would fit the bill, and you'd be getting a decent workout in the process.  

Karate is *not* hard on the joints.  You don't fully extend / snap out your arms / legs, and it does work the whole body.  

As for your age, I wouldn't let that stop you.  Just as an example, we have a 74 year old fellow, who got his black belt last year, and he's doing just fine.  The program has been great for him, and if I'm in half as good of a condition when I hit 74, I'll be as happy as a wealthy kid in a candy store.  

Just remember, that if you do have limitations, speak with the instructor.  There are alternate ways of doing things if there's a physical limitation, and the end result can be just as good.


----------



## CoryKS (Sep 22, 2006)

Bebe,

If you don't have any medical conditions that prevent it, I would suggest looking into running as a complement to your MA training.  After my first class in February, I was gasping so hard that I realized I needed a way to increase my endurance, so I started running on off days.  Started small, didn't worry about time, gradually added more distance and occasional sprints if I felt like it.  

Result:  I get more out of class, which was the main goal.  But as a side benefit, I've lost 30+ pounds and four pants sizes.  And I'm doing the KC half-marathon in a couple of weeks, which feels pretty good.  BTW I'm 37, if that matters.  Not exactly spring chicken.

I know everybody hates the idea of running.  But there's no faster way to get fat off a body, except for surgery.


----------



## Andrew Green (Sep 22, 2006)

Grenadier said:


> Karate is *not* hard on the joints.  You don't fully extend / snap out your arms / legs, and it does work the whole body.



Can I add a disclaimer? 

Karate is not hard on the joints if done right.  But unfortunately there are some that don't have the safest training practices, but that goes for any system.  And it doesn't take a big noticeable difference, slight variations in deep stances, a half inch extention on strikes, a little pivot on kicks...


----------



## charyuop (Sep 22, 2006)

First of all I would raccommend a better way of eating. Diet often is synonimous in people's heads of cutting food and starving. WRONG!
Diet means eat more often and less in quantity so that your methabolism kicks in. I don't know if it is considered wrong for me doing this, if so I am sorry, but you might want to look into something called Provida. It is a diet which also teaches you the correct way of eating.
As per Martial Art that depends on your preferences. Maybe for your age I would skip stuff with high kicks and big huge jumps. Just a humble suggestion, but maybe Aikido might do for you...but repeat, you need to look into it and choose for yourself.
You mentioned sore joints and for that I would greatly raccommend a Martial Art called Tai Chi Chuan. It takes a long time to learn Tai Chi as self defense, but its health and joints benefits can be noticed pretty soon. When my teacher started TAi Chi he could go down stairs only one foot at the time and he was often to the doctor for his back...now? well now he teaches the Art, so I guess it helped him alot.


----------



## exile (Sep 22, 2006)

If you want to lose weight, you need to put out more calories than you take in, ideally by some combination of (i) aerobic activity that lets you spend a good deal of your exercise time in the maximum fat-burning part of your heart rate, (ii) resistance training that build muscle tissue, which is metabolically active round the clock and can burn calories while you're sitting still or even sleeping,  and (iii) reduced calorie intake (but not to starvation levels, eh?!) Martial arts can supply (i), but you would see results faster if, _in addition_, you did something like running using intervals---this is very unpleasant (50 seconds jog, 10 all-out sprint out of each minute, for around half an hour to forty minutes a day) but _way_ effective. The bad part is, running can be hard on your joints and on your back, especially if you don't have a nice gravel path or cushioning composite-material track to run on. Any other aerobic exercise you do you can also do interval training in.

But first get yourself a good thorough checkup at your doctor's, letting him or her know what you have in mind, and start slowly. Figure it might take you three months to see marked results---the body hates to give up stored fat, and also builds muscle slowly unless you're lucky genetically. By six months you will probably look---and more important, feel---like a new person. Good luck!


----------



## charyuop (Sep 22, 2006)

I am sorry but don't agree on the running part. If he is someone who never did sport running is not a solution. Aerobic exercises are excellent but if properly done, if you do not do them right you don't burn fat (or better you don't burn only fat, but just a small percentage).
For a 60 year old man the area of max burning fat is around 105/110 heart beat per minute. Any effort carried out at a higher heart beat is just wasted energies. Any trainer in a gym when you do steps, running or cyclette will tell you to set speed so that you can check your heart rate (he will tell you how much it must be according to your age...if you want I can even tell you how to calculate it).
An overweight person will reach the target heart beating faster then a slimmer person, thus telling someone how to train according to your characteristics it is not advisable.
Moreover before starting any aerobic exercises, either you are 20, 30, 50 or 70 years old always have a check up with your doctor who will check your conditions. If he doesn't do it I would suggest requesting a ECC under stress (thing that when I started gym in the past they didn't do with me and only now I realize the risks I faced).
Just my 2 cents.


----------



## michaeledward (Sep 22, 2006)

> Can martial arts help a 59 year old beer gut?


 
Nope ... the best thing to do for that, is to drink younger beer. 





OK ... that's a cheap, gratuitous joke ... but I'm still chuckling at it. 

Welcome - Mike


----------



## exile (Sep 22, 2006)

charyuop said:


> For a 60 year old man the area of max burning fat is around 105/110 heart beat per minute. Any effort carried out at a higher heart beat is just wasted energies.



Not _totally_ wasted, surely... I mean, yes, less is burned directly from fat stores, but some still is, and if more total calories are burned, more does get taken out of his total caloric intake, no? 

Wasn't this a big debate among exercise physiologists a while back---was it better, for a fixed time frame, to expend fewer calories but get more of them in the max fat burning range, vs. expending more calories by more intense exercise but taking a somelow lower proportion of the calories burned directly from stored fat? If there really was such a debate, was there ever any consensus reached on the more efficient way to do aerobic exericse? I really don't have idea one way or the other...


----------



## Tames D (Sep 22, 2006)

michaeledward said:


> Nope ... the best thing to do for that, is to drink younger beer.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
I would recommend younger beer and Kenpo. On second thought, he better skip the Kenpo, that seems to add pounds to alot of people,  lol.


----------



## Bebe (Sep 22, 2006)

Thanks for all of the advice everyone. 
A couple of years ago I received a pair of Japanese "gift shop" swords as a gift from a relative. Being a nuts and bolts guy, I never liked to own something I didn't know how to use. I contacted a local school and I found the instructor somewhat arrogant and not very interested in me. He also said sword training was expensive. I got the impresson that he felt my age, weight, physical condition, or my personal worth (which he knew nothing about), or whatever, was not worth bothering with. He turned me off completely. 

Are his attitudes typical of sword art instructors? And if I made the investment in a real sword, would the training provide any significant physical fitness benefits? Just swinging a light katana with both hands doesn't seem too physically demanding but I'm sure there's a lot more to the art than that.


----------



## charyuop (Sep 22, 2006)

In my school I know people of your age and older who started practicing sword forms (but they went through normal forms before. I don't know other MAs', but it might be that before sword forms you need to work normal forms). Unfortuantely not all Martial Art teachers are good teachers. Knowing Martial Art and knowing how to teach it are two different things. I think that the suggestion I have seen given by some teachers often in this forum is very good. Go around and try different schools, some of them offer a free introductory class, use it to see if you like it.
One more thing, always procede at your step. Don't look at other beginners and think you must be doing the same thing. Our bodies are different, you might be behind compared to other beginners and might be ahead of others...just look at yourself and learn to be aware of your limits (time will help you to overcome those limits). I remember when I started Tai Chi I saw older people than me (much older) practicing and doing wider and lower stences and I thought if they can I can too...I would end up stuck and not able to do the next step coz my body limits were further behind. Now I can easily reach that width that I wanted to reach too early.
As per the sword as a physical work out. I think (and here I know only Tai Chi so I can speak about that) that the whole Martial Art in itself is good work out. Take for example the horse stence (wide legs, lower body till legs are parallel with ground and keep back streight), seems a simple movement with no extra weight, but it is very good for all the bottom part of your body (ankles, legs, knees, hips and lower back). With the right movements (that you find, I dare say,  in every Martial Art) gravity and your body will provide you the amount of weight you need to carry out good work outs.


Exile, I am not an expert, I just know what I was told by my gym trainer and dietician. Yes, if you go past your raccommended heart beat you still burn calories. But what you want to burn is the fat that your body has in storage, not calories. Calories are used by anything in the body, including muscles. If you don't burn only the excessive fat you will go touch (reduce) your muscolar tone as well as the excessive fat.


----------



## exile (Sep 22, 2006)

charyuop said:


> Exile, I am not an expert, I just know what I was told by my gym trainer and dietician. Yes, if you go past your raccommended heart beat you still burn calories. But what you want to burn is the fat that your body has in storage, not calories. Calories are used by anything in the body, including muscles. If you don't burn only the excessive fat you will go touch (reduce) your muscolar tone as well as the excessive fat.



Charyop---yes, I understand this, you're quite right. But there's another side. I found an interesting thread on an exercise-physiology board a few (i.e., many) years back suggesting that if you do a certain amount of weight training at the same time that you do your aerobic exercise---so do your interval sprints and then do a few heavy sets of some compound exercise---that you can `switch off' the routing of the call for calories that might otherwise target muscle protein. The idea is that the body will call for hypertrophy if it gets sufficiently overextended on weight training demands, regardless of the fact that you're also demanding compensation for calorie expenditure. So that only leaves any residual stored carbs (and of course the brain takes first dibs on these) and fat. I took these results seriously and tried it in the gym: I would do half an hour of hard intervals, followed by ten or fifteen minutes of serious leg presses or bench presses---big compound exercise, the idea was. And even though I'm pretty sure I went consistently into the red zone on my aerobic weights, I never lost any muscle tone at all---just got very cut. I'm restarted that program now, actually. So there's maybe more than one way to skin this particular cat. It's something to experiment with, anyway...

I really hate to monotor my heart rate, is what it comes down to...


----------



## charyuop (Sep 23, 2006)

LOL Exile, that shut my mouth up...to technical for me. You went beyond my knowledge. If it worked for you and the people you have seen in the gym I am sure your reasoning makes sense.
Still, I would pay caution to suggest to a 59 year old man overweight an exercise that might bring his heart rate up to 150/180 if not higher.

Anyway dear sir, exept technicality the main idea is...work out and Martial Arts give for sure a better quality of life  So pick up the the method you like and try it out...BUT REMEMBER WE ARE NOT DOCTORS NOR WE DO WANT TO SUBSTITUTE YOUR DOCTOR!!!!! A VISIT WITH YOUR DOCTOR BEFORE ANY PHYSICAL ACTIVITY IS A MUST!!!!!


----------



## exile (Sep 23, 2006)

charyuop said:


> LOL Exile, that shut my mouth up...to technical for me. You went beyond my knowledge. If it worked for you and the people you have seen in the gym I am sure your reasoning makes sense.



Hi Charyuop---the basic idea is just that if you demand calorie expenditure of your body and also demand muscle growth, the only way to square the two is for the body to burn fat (and mebbe some stored carbs, but those don't go far)



charyuop said:


> Still, I would pay caution to suggest to a 59 year old man overweight an exercise that might bring his heart rate up to 150/180 if not higher.



Oh yeah!, absolutely true. Even with a complete green like from the doctor, serious overexertion is an absolute invitation to something really, really unpleasant. Probably _under_doing it to start with is the smartest thing.



charyuop said:


> Anyway dear sir, exept technicality the main idea is...work out and Martial Arts give for sure a better quality of life  So pick up the the method you like and try it out...BUT REMEMBER WE ARE NOT DOCTORS NOR WE DO WANT TO SUBSTITUTE YOUR DOCTOR!!!!! A VISIT WITH YOUR DOCTOR BEFORE ANY PHYSICAL ACTIVITY IS A MUST!!!!!



Yes, yes and yes. One thing that I would do in this gentleman's situation is to ask my doctor for an ultrasound to screen the abdominal aorta. It could save a lot of grief later on.

If he follows your advice, Charyuop, I think he can look forward to a safe and very productive (and _re_ductive!) physical program that will also have some important self-defense payoffs.


----------

