# Time does not equal skill



## dosk3n (Aug 16, 2010)

Good morning guys and gals, hope you had a good weekend?

Ive met a few random chunners while training at the weekends over the last few months and we welcome anyone to turn up but what I have noticed is a lot of people who talk big.

Recently there was someone who said they have trained for 12 years and has been told he is a very advanced student by his old sifu and that he could soon be able to teach. He said he hasnt trained in a little while so said he had to brush up as was a little rusty.

Well Ive only been training a year and a bit and managed to completly control him in Chi Sau very easily as his hands were every where. Now I do train 4 days a week and he did say he hadnt trained in a little while but he didnt even know the full 1st form fully as we had to end up showing him, but he knew little bits of each of the forms.

He mentioned all of these different Sifu's he had had lessons from also but as the day went on I wasnt sure if these were just videos and books he learnt from as well as maybe a few classes as he was mentioning all the different ways you can do certain things but these differences were usually the differences that are between lineages. I do think he was a little slow though, and not the measurement of speed kind, if you know what I mean.

So it was one of those days where I learnt a life lesson and I have came to understand that time in training (12 years etc) does not equal skill.


----------



## coffeerox (Aug 16, 2010)

> So it was one of those days where I learnt a life lesson and I have came to understand that time in training (12 years etc) does not equal skill.



I even posted this in the "New in Wing Chun" thread but of course, it got dismissed.  People need to realize that concepts are universal and can be applied elsewhere.


----------



## thefearofme (Aug 16, 2010)

That is really true time does not equal skill. It's how much training you do and what kind of training you learn. The more effort you make into something the better you understand that something. As for you saying about the person who did WC for 12 years. That person sounds like a joke to me. He might have different sifu's and learned tricks but never practiced them or even understood the basic concepts of WC.


----------



## Rion (Aug 16, 2010)

Someone can say they have trained for over 20 years but if you don't put the effort in and you are all over the place with your training, then it doesn't equal to much.

If the guy in question that you where talking about only had one lesson every two weeks then of course there would be huge gaps in his knowledge, which you could find and attack.


----------



## bully (Aug 16, 2010)

There are people like this in all walks of life.

He could be like me, I trained WC in the 90's and maybe got to a low intermediate level. I had done the 3 forms, but did not really have Chum Kui down to a tee. I then stopped due to personal reasons.

I started again just messing around a couple of years a go, training with one of my old training partners now and again. No one teaches here you see. 
I went to see Kevin Chan for a day last year and then trained on and off with some of the guys I used to train with. That came to a halt a the beginning of this year and I have just done what I can since.

Now I could say....

Yeah I know the 3 forms (I dont), been training since the 90's (not true really), yeah I know Master Chan and train with him (I only went once!!) Yeah I organsised a class here, probably could teach it. (NO way could I)

I am a novice and nothing more, and I don't mind admitting it. Some people have a problem saying that, I am unsure why. We all have to start somewhere.

Maybe a Walter Mitty type??

When I went to that Gary Lam seminar in London I stated I was a novice and did not have much chi sau experience, which showed when I chi sau with the other more experienced guys. Imagine what an idiot I would have looked if I said what I put above!!!! They were all really patient and helped me out with tips etc.

You will just set yourself up for a fall, it's like if one of your work mates says "Hey Bully, fancy a game of tennis later mate"
"Yeah ok, why not"
"You any good mate"
"Yeah I'm awesome"

Even if you are, you sound like a dick. Let your game do the talking, be gracious and offer help if you are better.

Sorry for the long post but this winds me up and gives all sports and MA a bad name.


----------



## coffeerox (Aug 16, 2010)

I dug up the post I made a few days earlier



> edit: I notice you say "no matter how long" this is wrong. Just because you have time does not mean you can become better than somebody. Time is certainly a factor, but quality of training within that time frame that you have is more important.


----------



## dosk3n (Aug 16, 2010)

Exactly right cofferox just what I put also.

I didnt read that other thread you posted on though as if it gets too long I get lazy and start reading or if its got more than 2 pages before Ive started reading I wont read it.

I say I get lazy, its mainly Im at work and not meant to be online so I do it quickly.

How ever if he had said nothing came and trained it would have been fine but he made me feel embaresed for him since he said he was so good but then reminded me of a new starter.

Although I do wish him luck in his journey. Just reminded me of someone that likes kung fu movies more than someone that trains kung fu.


----------



## zepedawingchun (Aug 16, 2010)

dosk3n said:


> . . . . but what I have noticed is a lot of people who talk big.
> 
> Recently there was someone who said they have trained for 12 years and has been told he is a very advanced student by his old sifu and that he could soon be able to teach. He said he hasnt trained in a little while so said he had to brush up as was a little rusty.
> 
> ...


 
The guy may have been an advanced student when he was training with his sifu, but it's obvious he didn't train with a sifu for 12 years. Maybe the first 2 years were with a sifu, but nothing more. Looks like another Wing Chun frawd or geek to tarnish the good name and reputation of our art.

dosk3n, the guy was probably a liar and a frawd, trying to impress you with his supposed knowledge of WC until you let your hands do the talking.  That's the way to measure someone's skill in Wing Chun, let their hands do the talking.


----------



## mook jong man (Aug 16, 2010)

People say a lot of things , a lot talk themselves up , and very few talk themselves down.

But the hands don't lie , once you touch hands with someone you can tell how much training they've done.


----------



## coffeerox (Aug 16, 2010)

> Looks like another Wing Chun frawd or geek to tarnish the good name and reputation of our art.



dosk3n opened up an important discussion for today's Wing Chun.  We have people like that guy who claims to have been taught for 12 years but in actuality have the training of a, (maybe I'm being generous here) an intermediate level student, yet, this guy is on his way to teaching!!

I don't need to tell you how dangerous this is for his potential students to learn these techniques and then get creamed out there in the street.  It's a good thing that I got beat in sparring first to know that I had serious flaws I needed to fix.

This goes to my next point.  I've seen sparring and sparring events with Wing Chun in it going up against other styles such as Muay Thai and their boxers beat the **** out of a WC student.  So bad that it made me wonder why or how they let the WC guy step into the ring into the first place.  These are guys that train for 2+ years.

What is this time trained really telling me? Nothing that I need to know about.  I can at least trust a recognized and respected Sifu (unlike the 12 years guy) to pass the system down the way it's supposed to be done, however, another important aspect that I feel is lacking in Wing Chun is the question of if this teacher will hone my fighting ability with the art he taught me?

If I was given the option to train with a WC teacher or Paul Vunak, I'd go Paul Vunak any day because he teaches you how to FIGHT.  He has that killer instinct and intent that I felt Wing Chun as martial art was perfect for.  I believe that these days, very few teachers out there can even teach the art to fight at this level.

zepeda, if you want it so much, you can have your precious WC name and your style and I, as a self-trainer won't be calling what I do Wing Chun.  What I do is closer to Jeet Kune Do Concepts and through that, will free me to be a better fighter.  I am more suited to a 'young man's' art so yes, there will be elements from WC and JFJKD however it's not any of those systems.


----------



## zepedawingchun (Aug 17, 2010)

coffeerox said:


> I believe that these days, very few teachers out there can even teach the art to fight at this level..


 
You obviously haven't seen the right Wing Chun teachers yet.  You need to come to Atlanta, GA, I can introduce you to several Wing Chun teachers that are great fighters and will change your mind about Wing Chun in about 2 seconds.  And I'm sure there are a few on this forum as well.  I understand, you're still young and have a few more years to live, you'll meet them.  



coffeerox said:


> zepeda, if you want it so much, you can have your precious WC name and your style and I, as a self-trainer won't be calling what I do Wing Chun.


 
Good idea. Name and reputation is important, even in this day and age. Because sometimes that's how people meet you, know you, and understand you. It may determine whether you are a success or a failure in life, business, or anything else. 




coffeerox said:


> What I do is closer to Jeet Kune Do Concepts and through that, will free me to be a better fighter. I am more suited to a 'young man's' art so yes, there will be elements from WC and JFJKD however it's not any of those systems.


 
Free you to be a better fighter? Just because you copy the ideas of JKD Concepts (or anything else), doesn't make you a better fighter. And martial arts has no distinction of age or gender. Besides, the majority of Jun Fan JKD concepts came from Wing Chun from which Bruce Lee borrowed. 

You can do whatever you want, self train JKD Concepts, Muay Thai, Kali, or Wing Chun. It doesn't matter and you can use it however you want. But if you're going to bastardize something and take from this art or that art, at least give it credit by saying I got it from this art or that art. Even if you do it badly. But don't call it that art because without proper instruction and learning the whole system to back it up, it's not complete and it's not the system. It's like taking an engine (or parts) off a Ferrari and putting them in an old VW Beetle, you got a very fast Beetle that amazes people, but it the end, it's still a Beetle.


----------



## coffeerox (Aug 17, 2010)

> Just because you copy the ideas of JKD Concepts (or anything else)


I'm not copying the ideas of anybody else's JKD concepts (such as the specific style people teach), rather, it's my own personal JKD.  I'm not even calling it JKD because there's legit groups of JFJKD out there and I don't want to step on their turf like I did on Wing Chun.  Like Bruce said.  If there has to be an argument about the name of what you do, let there be no name at all.  Using no way as way.  I'll let you have your silly little names, titles or whatever the hell. 



> But if you're going to bastardize something and take from this art or that art


You would think that I would bastardize something because I self-train but that is not the case at all.  I don't bastardize anything I do.  I think you need to lay off of the performance analysis until you actually see me in real life.  



> It's like taking an engine (or parts) off a Ferrari and putting them in  an old VW Beetle, you got a very fast Beetle that amazes people, but it  the end, it's still a Beetle.


Try telling that to Paul Vunak.  You would be shocked at what he did to chain punching and cannibalizing parts of systems into his own system but I would GUARANTEE YOU, 100% that this guy will destroy you.

Nobody, including me of course, is claiming this system or that system, like i said, it remains nameless.  If it has to have a name, it's total fighting LOL I don't know if you got that reference but whatever.

edit:

don't get me wrong. I will receive proper instruction from the arts that I choose, which includes Wing Chun.  For now, this is just a little idea that I have.


----------



## BloodMoney (Aug 17, 2010)

Met plenty of guys like the OP mentioned.

In all honesty if youve seriously trained WC for 12 years you will never EVER forget Siu Lim Tao aka 1st form. If you do then you clearly havent even got past the most basic start of chun (ie: learning the 1st form). In fact I would go as far as to say that if you seriously did WC for a single year you should never forget the form, because theoretically youve done the form 365 times 

My master said the one thing that annoyed him was guys who came back after years and couldnt remember the form, and I can see why.


----------



## coffeerox (Aug 17, 2010)

> Free you to be a better fighter? Just because you copy the ideas of JKD  Concepts (or anything else), doesn't make you a better fighter. And  martial arts has no distinction of age or gender.


Yes. Free me to a better fighter.  Without the ties to Wing Chun, I can focus on fighting and become proficient in that.  I don't need you telling me that I can only learn sensitivity from a Wing Chun teacher when I've thrown that entire system out the door and instead focus on accurate striking, footwork and evasion.  The best MMA fighters don't use any trapping at all and they are successful.

I say young man's art because it is based on physical attributes, speed, strength, stamina, etc.  What people refer to as a 'hard' or external style.

Chinaboxer talks about this occasionally in his videos.  What he practices is the 'old man's' Wing Chun that doesn't rely on physical strength or conditioning.  Completely internal.

What makes me a good fighter, zepeda, is that I've actually been in real street fights, from growing up, to adult life (well not anymore, NOW) so I understand what it is and how dire that situation is.  I'm actually at a point where I can avoid the fight completely through diplomacy.  

But best believe, if I'm in one, I'm coming out the victor.  I don't care how skilled you or anybody are in martial arts because you do not know the level of brutality I will go to protect myself.  If I have to shoot you, I'm doing it.  I will go for the critical shot and if I don't hit it, I'll walk up to you when you are down and get that shot.  

I am an extremely dangerous person and when I have proper training, I'll be even more so.  Even though I am dangerous, I'm actually a very cool and nice guy.  I follow all the principles of being a good person, not just in real life but online as well.  If i disrespect somebody, it is for good reason but deal with me like I'm a fellow human, and you'll see that I can be great to have around. I'm not asking you to respect me, or anything like that.  Just talk to someone in a humane fashion and expect to receive the same.

People that know me, love me because I stand up for them, encourage them to be the best they can be.  They can rely on me to be a good friend.  Just an example, but my friend was in jail for 2 years and nobody, not even his family wrote him letters but I wrote for all 2 years and called the 1/2 a year he was in the halfway house from beginning to end.

Being a good fighter is more than about martial arts.  It encompasses so much.  You know *A* range of combat but there's another side to it that you do not possess.  You probably won't ever know but I'm happy that I'm privileged to understand it.


----------



## BloodMoney (Aug 18, 2010)

coffeerox said:


> But best believe, if I'm in one, I'm coming out the victor.  *I don't care how skilled you or anybody are* in martial arts because you do not know the level of brutality I will go to protect myself.



Uh...okay.

You keep going with that and see how far it gets you mate


----------



## coffeerox (Aug 18, 2010)

BloodMoney said:


> Uh...okay



BloodMoney, you would do well to listen.  You have no idea what I know.  My friend has actually been in those situations day in and out, and the horrible things people do.  You can't ever be ready for things like this but you can be more informed.  I'm just saying, don't dismiss it.


----------



## cwk (Aug 18, 2010)

Coffeerox,
This is isn't a personal attack on you or anything like that so please don't take it as one.
it's just that this is the 3rd or 4th thread that has gone from the original OP to a bickering match between yourself and others.
now, I'm not saying it's completely all your fault, it takes 2 (or more) to tango, but I think you really need to chill out mate.
I personally have no problem with you training yourself and calling it what you want, that's your choice and I respect that you defend your choices. But saying things like " I'm dangerous" or saying that you would shoot someone is just taking things in the wrong direction and pretty much inviting people to start having a go at you. This then gets you on the defensive and then we have another thread that goes down the drain, with pages of bickering.

I know sometimes people like to antagonize you but in this thread nobody made any statement whatsoever about you personally.
so please, for the good of the forum,
Chill out mate and don't take things so seriously.
 I wish you all the best in your martial journey.
cwk


----------



## coffeerox (Aug 18, 2010)

cwk: I agree and I apologize to everyone in the thread.  I'll add zepeda to my ignore list.


----------



## BloodMoney (Aug 18, 2010)

coffeerox said:


> BloodMoney, you would do well to listen.  You have no idea what I know.  My friend has actually been in those situations day in and out, and the horrible things people do.  You can't ever be ready for things like this but you can be more informed.  I'm just saying, don't dismiss it.



You talk like your the only person that would be brutal to defend himself. Or the only person that got into fights as a kid, or has natural fighting ability. Look around at the forum your on.

Coming onto a martial arts forum and saying "I am a dangerous man" is kinda asking for ridicule man. Are you trying to troll or just subconsciously doing it? Theres guys round here that make me look like a little girl and ive been training since I was ten years old in numerous arts. Am I confident in my abilities? Of course, im an instructor I have to be. Do I walk around telling people "they have no idea what I could do to them?". Uh...yeah not really. 

I have no idea what you know, no. I have seen a few of your posts around and gather you are largely self trained, and thats fine. But some of us here are disciplined, studious people whove trained in martial arts our whole lives and are a bit sick of the old "I dont need training I just go psycho" speech. Heard it a thousand times at a thousand bars and parties mate, and quite frankly its boring.


----------



## coffeerox (Aug 18, 2010)

> Heard it a thousand times at a thousand bars and parties mate, and quite frankly its boring.



Bars and parties is not even the beginning.  The realities of combat go far beyond petty **** like that.



> But some of us here are disciplined, studious people whove trained in martial arts our whole lives



I may not be trained in MA, but I'm disciplined and studious too but my life experience is a bit different than everyone else's.



> "I dont need training I just go psycho" speech.



That's not it at all.  Actually what I said was very real and downright frightening if you knew what I knew.  What is your martial arts going to do for you if you get ran over by a car expecting an honest fight? There is no honest fight.  What's your martial arts going to do for you when you are staring down the barrel of a gun?  

The truth is, people ARE going to bring equalizers, in any form, and despite what you may believe about your martial arts skills, these equalizers will work and they are completely unexpected.  You have to accept and understand that your MA training is not going to cover everything and even knife defense trained to a high degree won't prepare you for a real encounter, it'll just increase your chances.

It's not "not needing training" and it's not "going psycho".  Not at all.  It's survival.  You don't survive by being stupid saying you don't need training and losing your mind.


----------



## matsu (Aug 18, 2010)

here we go again....... another thread crapped on!

dosk3n... sifu always says the minute you touch hands you should be able/will be able to know if you can beat him.one of our sifus was challenged by a hooooge guy the other week as he is starting a new class in a new area.he said the minute he touched hands he had the other guy beat and both of them knew it.
we did chi sau last night at the adanced class and i am by far the least experienced,with only single figures of hours rolling and i got creamed by almost everyone most of the time but even so there were a few guys with much more experience that the minute i touched hands i knew i wasnt in as much trouble as with the guy before.... lol not quite the same as knowing youre better but ill get there.
i cant wait for that time tho.

coffeedude..... you are making a lot of assumptions about the guys on here with their backgrounds. i appreciate you come from a tough turf and you have had a hard life and you are super tough and prepared to use a gun to win etc etc etc. how do you know there are not guys with similar backgrounds.....AND they have training in a formal system.

please for the love of everything pretty and flowery stop picking fights oer petty things people say. 
for example
*Try telling that to Paul Vunak. You would be shocked at what he did to chain punching and cannibalizing parts of systems into his own system but I would GUARANTEE YOU, 100% that this guy will destroy you.*
do you know either of these guys?
have you touched hands or sparred with either of these guys?
C'mon fella. you cannot make statements like that without losing the respect of everyone on here when you do!
and despite what you think everyone was granted the same respect when they arrive on this forum, it is how you behave that allows you to keep it and earn more .... or lose it.
i have/had a grudging respect for you for doing what you do, the research you do the effort you put in, your knowledge of wing chun techniques etc, you know more chinese than i... but everytime you post and get confrontational with someone i switch off bit by bit!


this is just an internet forum for wing chunners so lets keep the threads on topic and with respect to the OP who has a real point of discussion instead of trying to tell everyone how well endowed you are metaphorically.
and i know you are an expert in reading people via the worldwide web and that you are probably gonna hunt me down across continents and oceans and put me to sleep permanantly with some ninja technique you hae perfected while levitating in an astral plane not of this dimension ........but it had to be said.take the chill pill dude!

and please guys..... stop feeding the trolls
and lets keep the threads on topic, it was amusing at first but now im losing the will to visit the forum right now!
matsu


----------



## dosk3n (Aug 18, 2010)

Admin please close the thread now as the same thing is starting up again...


----------



## matsu (Aug 18, 2010)

dosk3n... sorry fella for getting involved. i have made an comment ON topic lol.
matsu


----------



## coffeerox (Aug 18, 2010)

> that you are probably gonna hunt me down across continents and oceans


I can actually do that lol!  One time this guy was getting bad with me following me to other threads and I demonstrated that I found his mom, his real name, and phone number and threatened to call his mom due to his behavior, I even found the place he hangs out at, plus what he looks like.  Have you seen what the 4chan guys do to people? Those guys are crazy and they're 10 times better at it than I am.



> do you know either of these guys?



look at his credentials.  He's trained Navy Seals.


----------



## cwk (Aug 18, 2010)

I think it's more a case of how you train not how long you've been doing it.
some people put 100% into everything they do and thus reap the rewards in a relatively short time. My good friend Sifu Julian Williamson ,who some of you London boys might know, is one of these types of people, a very hardworking practitioner. Then on the other hand there's  people like a thai guy I trained with for a short spell called Chung. He had about 7 years of training on me but I ended up having to teach him basic stuff, and believe me, I'm not that good myself. He was way too stiff and made a lot of fundamental mistakes and I was left wondering how he could of trained for so long and still be at the level he was. It turns out the reason was just...him. His personality was such that he never stayed with anyone long enough to learn stuff from.  He was (and still is)constantly bouncing from place to place and when he trained he only wanted to do what he liked and thought he was good at, always trying to ignore his weaknesses and not wanting to work on them.

IMHO, you can only begin to improve when you can admit your weaknesses and also be willing to put the hard work in, not just the hours.

just my tuppence worth and a last attempt to get this thread back on track.


----------



## matsu (Aug 18, 2010)

*and threatened to call his mom due to his behavior,*

OMG....you DID not just type that lmao....... ok this is definately a wind up now!

do you know either of these guys? *look at his credentials. He's trained Navy Seals.* 
and my dad used to train the sealions at the zoo  !!!

i dont doubt he is any good matey!
but the statement you made and others before were incredibly aggerssive and with no substance behind them. fact is untill someone touches hands with him,neither would know who is the better so to state "he will destroy you" was a little immature and just asking for a full on arguement?
am i making sense?
we would all like to give you the benefit of the doubt but with input onto this forum like those, people will just abusing you and none of us want that.

cwk- or the guy might have just been crap... or just a sloooooow learner like me lol. people in 10yrs might say that about me, wow hes trained for 10yrs and is still soooo bad.
i think we have to take into consideration just natural raw talent or genetic ability.
if we took say 20 14yr olds that were keen and hardworking and trainined them identically 5 hours per day for 6 months we would probably find that one of those kids just blew eeryone away, they would all have skill and be able but the kid/s with the raw natural talent would still get way ahead.

but like you say its about quality not quantity...as i was just telling my girlfriend last nite lol.


----------



## WC_lun (Aug 18, 2010)

Unfortunately there are people out there that inflate what they have done and what they know a great deal.  Most of us with any time in the arts have seen this.  It isn't exclusive to Wing Chun either.  You are correct in never assuming that someone is good from what they tell you.  My personal opinion is that if they have been a Wing Chun practioner for 12 years they should definitley know the forms.  My sifu drilled form into me so much that I had dreams about them! 

cofeerox, you are a bad man.  Satisfied?  Now please stop.  If you want my name and particulars, send me a private tell.  I'll save you the work and the threats.


----------



## dosk3n (Aug 18, 2010)

coffeerox said:


> Have you seen what the 4chan guys do to people? Those guys are crazy and they're 10 times better at it than I am.


 
As a /b/tard you should be aware that anon is not your personal army.


----------



## zepedawingchun (Aug 18, 2010)

Coffeerox, you told BloodMoney 'he would do well to listen' in an earlier post. You need to follow your own advice.

I'm not even going to attempt to answer your last stabs at me. It's not worth my time and effort anymore. We have a saying here in the south and it goes 'it's the dog that doesn't bark that you need to be careful of'. 

And it holds true on this forum. You have barked and barked, touted your skills, knowledge, and abilities over and over. I don't see others doing that. You insult members first and then get mad at them when they insult you back. Only for you to claim they started it when in fact you did. You've insulted everyone who has ever tried to help you and make you understand that YOU are not emperor of this planet and that you are not the most dangerous person ever known. You tout that nobody knows you or what you can do. Well, the same can be said in reverse. You don't know me, or anyone else on this forum, our skills, history, knowledge, backround, accomplishments, nothing. And you've never really asked to find out, either. 

A good fighter researches his opponent before he/she engages in any contest. And it appears that is how you view posting on this forum, a contest. Too bad you haven't done your due diligence to find out about your opponents. And BTW, a master of anything, doesn't matter what, doesn't brag and shout to the heavens me, me, me, me. Because lest they do, lightning will come down and strike them at that instant. Or better yet, Murphy will slap them around just for the fun of it. 

Since you are so good at online research, you would do well to be quiet and research the people you have and are about to scream harshly to, find out a little bit about them. You'd be surprised what you might find, or better yet, what you can't find which is even more dangerous. You, my friend, play with matches way too much, and one day, you will get burned.


----------



## yak sao (Aug 18, 2010)

An old saying....." if you have to tell them who you are, you ain't"


----------



## jks9199 (Aug 18, 2010)

A word to the wise...

Cyberstalking, in any form, is a really good way to get yourself what Lady Callahan would call a permanent invitation to the world around these parts.  Threats to do the same aren't whole lots better.


----------



## Boozmork (Aug 18, 2010)

Should we be worried about our posts if one of the readers is telling us that he's a dangerous man who would shoot someone whilst they were down and can also track us via the internet?
I don't use forums a lot but that seems a little beyond flaming.

 Just curious


----------



## jks9199 (Aug 18, 2010)

If you have concerns about any post, by any poster (including staff!), please use the Report To Moderator button.  It's a red triangle at the top right of each post, near the rep button.


----------



## MJS (Aug 18, 2010)

*Admin Note*

Folks,

There have been a number of threads in this section lately, that have caused nothing but trouble.  This is turning into one of those threads.  

Please return to the original topic.  If people are going to continue to take shots at each other, steer threads off topic, and disregard the rules, you will soon find yourself removed from the forum.

Consider this the one and only warning.

MJS
MT Asst. Admin


----------



## matsu (Aug 18, 2010)

i honestly dont think there has been any real threats.
a few tongue in cheek comments,some ridiculous showboating and a distinct clash of personalities.
but nothing that would worry me seriously or i hope any member on here.
its the internet after all and we can choose not to read/post or interact.
lets keep it clean guys lol
matsu


----------



## Drac (Aug 18, 2010)

Boozmork said:


> Should we be worried about our posts if one of the readers is telling us that he's a dangerous man who would shoot someone whilst they were down and can also track us via the internet?
> I don't use forums a lot but that seems a little beyond flaming.
> 
> Just curious


 
Ignore the chattering..The folks who are *REAL THREATS* would *NEVER *broadcast it..



			
				JKS9119 said:
			
		

> If you have concerns about any post, by any poster (including staff!), please use the Report To Moderator button. It's a red triangle at the top right of each post, near the rep button.


 
What he said...


----------



## Boozmork (Aug 18, 2010)

I wasn't really worried in any real way to be honest. It just concerns me that people think in such a way, even if it is to try to impress people or whatever. I just see it all escalating each time these threads go a bit awry and I'm starting to wonder where it's going to go next lol.
My view on this subject is that martial arts isn't about violence and it shouldn't ever go against the laws of the land, no matter what the situation. We learn to better ourselves, not to make us effective killing/maiming machines. The ability to defend ourselves should be used to raise our confidence and to be able to spot when a situation is going in a bad direction and effectively deflate the situation before it turns violent. Wing Chun is about economy of motion and efficiency, the most efficient way to fight is not to fight. 

And to try and add my penny to the OP. I think time does equate to skill. But you also need to absorb what you're being taught and to study away from class. Dedication is important and dedication takes time.


----------



## coffeerox (Aug 18, 2010)

> i honestly dont think there has been any real threats.



you're right, there hasn't been any.  It's just discussion on the dangers of what people can do, and being informed make us better martial artists.


----------



## geezer (Aug 18, 2010)

Boozmork said:


> ...And to try and add my penny to the OP. I think time does equate to skill. But you also need to absorb what you're being taught and to study away from class. Dedication is important and dedication takes time.


 
Time, effort and dedication yield progress, but we each progress according to our own abilities. potential, and _personal goals._ Another thing is that we need to be totally honest with ourselves about what we have invested in our training. For example, I have numerous si-dei (junior kung-fu brothers) who have passed me in skill. And some, but not all of them are more gifted than I. They mostly just worked harder and longer. 

For example, I could factually say that I've been studying kung fu since 1976 and WC/WT since 1079, spending about a dozen years as the number 2 US disciple of a famous Chinese Grandmaster who studied under Ip Man himself. But that would be a misrepresentation since it doesn't take into the account that during that time I was working on college and graduate degrees and frequently had to take time off from training to attend to my academic demands and financial needs. Nor does it mention that I quit training completely from about 1992 to 2007, only returning to WC in my 50s as a _hobbiest. _And that now I train and teach casually without the delusion of ever becoming a great master... rather, I just do it for my personal satisfaction. 

My point is that I know a lot of people who have come further than I in less time. Heck, _two of them are my instructors! _And you know what? I'm good with that. It's not about the destination. _It's about the journey._


----------



## BloodMoney (Aug 18, 2010)

matsu said:


> i appreciate you come from a tough turf and you have had a hard life and you are super tough and prepared to use a gun to win etc etc etc. *how do you know there are not guys with similar backgrounds.....AND they have training in a formal system.*



lol yup, exactly what I was getting at. Agreed.



coffeerox said:


> I can actually do that lol!  One time this guy was getting bad with me following me to other threads and I demonstrated that I found his mom, his real name, and phone number and threatened to call his mom due to his behavior, I even found the place he hangs out at, plus what he looks like.  Have you seen what the 4chan guys do to people? Those guys are crazy and they're 10 times better at it than I am.



So...on top of being a troll you cyber stalk people?

Im new to this forum as is obvious, and in all honesty if people like this are allowed to operate here then maybe I should find somewhere else to chat about martial arts?....



yak sao said:


> An old saying....." if you have to tell them who you are, you ain't"



Amen


----------



## MJS (Aug 19, 2010)

*Admin Note*

*Apparently my earlier warning was missed.  *

*Thread locked.*

*MJS 
MT Asst Admin*


----------

