# Kali fundamentals question



## Kittan Bachika (Apr 8, 2012)

Karate has Kihon which is their blocks, foot stances and strikes. Does Kali have something similar?


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## Carol (Apr 8, 2012)

There are blocks, foot stances, and strikes in Kali, yes.


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## Blindside (Apr 9, 2012)

Well, part of this is an approach to teaching, but as an example, Pekiti-Tirsia Kali teaches its students movement, not stances.  GT Gaje is very emphatic about that.  Are there positions that another system might describe as a "cat stance" or a "forward stance" or something, yes, but you will never see it described that way.  The descriptions tend to be active like; "sidestep right" or "step the left foot on the forward triangle" or that sort of thing.

But yes, there tends to be an established way of doing blocks or strikes that are taught, and it can vary between systems, Pekiti as an unarmed art tends to be with open hands rather than systems that use fists as primary striking tools.


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## Tswolfman (Apr 9, 2012)

Most Filipino arts that i know of do not have basic "Kata" like Karate. They have basics but normally they are small pieces that get randomized and you learn more and more of them. I know some do use Anyos ( Filipino forms/Kata ) but most to my experience do not do a formalized Pattern other then maybe a sequence of strikes but even then you may do them moving forward backward in place and a variety of methods.


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## MJS (Apr 9, 2012)

Kittan Bachika said:


> Karate has Kihon which is their blocks, foot stances and strikes. Does Kali have something similar?



The Modern Arnis system that I train, has all of the above.  There are stances/footwork, strikes/kicks, and the anyos, both empty hand and stick.


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## Kittan Bachika (Apr 11, 2012)

Thanks for the responses. Just from watching youtube videos I know FMA is very effective. But what I have noticed is that the training is not like Karate or Kung Fu. It is
a different way of doing things and it works very well.


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## billc (Apr 14, 2012)

It depends, as all things do, on what type of kali you study.  In DTS, wing blocks, abinikos, and reinforced blocks would not be part of the main DTS system since it is a blade based art.  I have heard that Kali Ilustrisimo does not practice blocks.  Also with blade based kali systems, force on force, blade to blade blocking would not be attempted if at all possible.  We don't really have forms, we have footwork rather than stances.  You would need to look at each method of kali on its own really.


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## Kittan Bachika (Apr 16, 2012)

How does a system like DTS teach fighting empty handed?
Do the blade skills translate to empty hand?

I was watching this clip. Really interesting stuff.
http://youtu.be/K2sYDe86qhU

I am thinking if he could do the same technique w/o the blade.


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## Blindside (Apr 17, 2012)

Some examples of a some of the translations.


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## Kittan Bachika (Apr 17, 2012)

This is really cool. 
I can see the translations. 

From what I know, Kali training begins with the stick first. When do you start teaching the empty hand techniques? At the same time or after the 
student is more familiar with the stick?


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## Blindside (Apr 17, 2012)

The more appropriate translation is the relationship of knife to empty hand rather than stick, at least the way it is taught in PTK.  A longer weapon (bolo/stick) acts as a third jointed limb on the arm rather than the knife which is an extension of the hand.  I usually show the unarmed translations once the student is comfortable with a number of knife patterns and manipulations, call it a month or so.


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## Kittan Bachika (Apr 18, 2012)

Blindside said:


> The more appropriate translation is the relationship of knife to empty hand rather than stick, at least the way it is taught in PTK.  A longer weapon (bolo/stick) acts as a third jointed limb on the arm rather than the knife which is an extension of the hand.  I usually show the unarmed translations once the student is comfortable with a number of knife patterns and manipulations, call it a month or so.



I see. I always though that they started out with the stick first. But as billicihak said before, it depends on they style of kali.

Is it easier for students to pick up empty hand fighting after learning to use the knife? In other styles they usually do empty hand first.


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## Blindside (Apr 18, 2012)

Kittan Bachika said:


> I see. I always though that they started out with the stick first. But as billicihak said before, it depends on they style of kali.
> 
> Is it easier for students to pick up empty hand fighting after learning to use the knife? In other styles they usually do empty hand first.



The pithy answer is: "if you can deal with the blade, you can deal with the fist," but naturally it isn't that simple.  When you make the switch to unarmed the power generation needs to be emphasized, and that the opponent has available defenses against unarmed attacks that are simply not practical against a knife.

On the plus side, the assumption of weapon explains most of the oddball things you see in karate and kenpo, when you watch say Kyokushinkai guys do unarmed sparring you never see the classical blocking that is taught in the kata.  Add a knife into the sparring equation and all of a sudden they are absorbing hits anymore the defensive sphere expands as all those extension blocks and parries have to come into play.  Using the weapon first explains much of the basics that you see in most of the unarmed systems.


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## Kittan Bachika (Apr 20, 2012)

Blindside said:


> On the plus side, the assumption of weapon explains most of the oddball things you see in karate and kenpo, when you watch say Kyokushinkai guys do unarmed sparring you never see the classical blocking that is taught in the kata.  Add a knife into the sparring equation and all of a sudden they are absorbing hits anymore the defensive sphere expands as all those extension blocks and parries have to come into play.  Using the weapon first explains much of the basics that you see in most of the unarmed systems.



You know what is funny? When it comes Kyokushinkai sparing, I have never seen any clips of them sparring with one of them with a knife. I have seen self defense techniques against a knife. But I haven't seen sparring. But what you say makes a lot of sense. The point of Karate is to defend against an attacker, armed or unarmed. 


http://youtu.be/frzRwZTbRps
There is no way these guys could fight they way they are now if a knife thrown in. To a certain point, they can take hits from each other, but not from a knife.


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## Blindside (Apr 20, 2012)

I only mentioned the Kyokushinkai system because I share training space with a local club and we have crossover from their class to mine, and it takes them a bit of adjustment.  But the same could be largely said of my old Kenpo group as well, we all train and spar to our ruleset(s), the presence of weapons explains much of the actions that don't see play when focusing on unarmed vs. unarmed.


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