# How does kungfu stick work compare with other styles? and beggar style?



## qianfeng (Jun 13, 2014)

So my teacher is gonna teach me some stick work and i was wondering how sticks in chinese martial arts compare with other arts like kali. And i mean a short stick not a gun (staff) or anything.

And are there specific styles that just teach staff? i hear there is a beggars style that focuses on it or is that just modern wushu inspired by the beggars sect from wuxia novels?


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## Marnetmar (Jun 14, 2014)

I don't practice Kali but from my training I do know that CMA tends to "work" sticks, so to speak, while other arts tend to move them without changing grip. It's quite hard to explain really.


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## clfsean (Jun 14, 2014)

The only stick work I've done of any note is not short stick. Long stick only for me. I would expect it to be similar to bian (hard whip) or the like. Maybe reminiscent of some sword like techniques.


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## Xue Sheng (Jun 14, 2014)

The shortest stick I ever trained much was xingyi short staff, and that is 6 feet long.

However my first sifu taught a form he called yang style short staff which is exactly what you have in the old beggers staff video. I trined that a bit but since there is no short staff from the yang family, and my first sifu was known to make stuff up for purposes of $$$$ I did not take it seriously and never finished the form


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## geezer (Jun 14, 2014)

The first clip especially reminded me of TCMA_ jian,_ and neither clip looked very practical when compared with the more combat-oriented branches of Filipino stick-fighting. 

_@ Marnetmar:_ The system of Filipino martial art that I teach basically uses 6 grips: standard, punyo, reinforced, double-handed, double-end, and reverse. However, you are quite correct in that we do not unnecessarily switch grips, add decorative twirls or flourishes. We keep it simple and efficient, just like WC. And just as WC despises "flowery hands", we avoid "flowery-sticks"!


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## arnisador (Jun 14, 2014)

In the FMA there's a strong emphasis on stick-on-stick (often representing sword-on-sword), not stick vs. empty hands or stick vs. other weapons. Is that so in the CMA?


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## Blindside (Jun 14, 2014)

This interview might be of interest, it is of a CMA practitioner who participates regularly with the Dog Brothers.
dogbrothers.gr - Interview with Thomas "Gong-Fu Dog" Holtmann


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## jks9199 (Jun 14, 2014)

Some styles feature a "live grip" where the stick is moved within the grip, or the grip changes.  For example, you might start with the hands a bit wider than your shoulders in a middle grip (each hand about 1/3 from the end, in other words), and as you make a horizontal swinging strike, slide the hand on the front end in to add speed and power, or you might thrust and slide the stick through the lead hand, sort of like shooting pool.  Other styles feature a more rigid hand position, that doesn't move or change much.  Sometimes, it depends on the form or particular stick syllabus, as well.  And, of course, with shorter sticks or single hand grips, moving it around is much less common.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Jun 14, 2014)

Never heard about Chinese short stick. Chinese have many short weapon such as sword, knife, hook, ... but not stick.


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## qianfeng (Jun 14, 2014)

Really sorry guys made a mistake my teacher said short staff not short stick. He said &#30701;&#26829; so i assumed a short staff was a stick like in Kali and other arts. Soz.


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## qianfeng (Jun 14, 2014)

That interview was pretty good but i would really would of loved a video of him fighting with the 3 section staff (never seen anyone use it lol).


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## Blindside (Jun 14, 2014)

couple of bits of 3 section at 1:24, he shows up in other DBMA highlight reels as well.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Jun 14, 2014)

qianfeng said:


> Really sorry guys made a mistake my teacher said short staff not short stick. He said &#30701;&#26829; so i assumed a short staff was a stick like in Kali and other arts. Soz.


I assume the &#30701;&#26829; (short staff) idea may come from the &#38159; (jian) - a weapon that's used to break sword or knife.


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## qianfeng (Jun 15, 2014)

Hey do you know whats the point of  a &#38829; which is really similar to &#38159;?


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## Kung Fu Wang (Jun 15, 2014)

&#38829; can be bent.  &#38159; is a solid piece of metal that cannot be bent.


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## blindsage (Jun 15, 2014)

There is also the Taiji Bang, but it's a very short stick and most people only do the qigong practice.


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## qianfeng (Jun 15, 2014)

I dont mean mean bian as a whip but the weapon used by general yuchigong


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## Xue Sheng (Jun 15, 2014)

blindsage said:


> There is also the Taiji Bang, but it's a very short stick and most people only do the qigong practice.


Also there is the taiji ruler, not the sme as the bang, but short and used for qigong. The bang is also used for strengthening as well


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## Kung Fu Wang (Jun 15, 2014)

This can be with &#38829; or &#38159;, depending on whether it can be bent or not.







This is  &#38159;. It's a solid piece metal and cannot be bent.


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## qianfeng (Jun 16, 2014)

So i searched up the stuff and &#30828;&#38829; cannot bend. it is heavier and larger than the &#38159; and has a small weight at the end. Also it is used more for cavalry while &#38159; is for foot fighting.


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## tonglongpractitioner (Jun 23, 2014)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> Never heard about Chinese short stick. Chinese have many short weapon such as sword, knife, hook, ... but not stick.


possibly the walking stick or hard whip (bian?)?
I know in Chow Gar we have a rattan walking stick form as part of our weapon sets


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## Kung Fu Wang (Jun 23, 2014)

tonglongpractitioner said:


> possibly the walking stick or hard whip (bian?)?
> I know in Chow Gar we have a rattan walking stick form as part of our weapon sets



I had hand carried back a big bundle of rattan material from Taiwan back to US. I'm very familiar with that material. I truly don't think the rattan material can be use to "kill". If any weapon cannot be used to kill, by definition, it's not a weapon.


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## Xue Sheng (Jun 24, 2014)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> I had hand carried back a big bundle of rattan material from Taiwan back to US. I'm very familiar with that material. I truly don't think the rattan material can be use to "kill". If any weapon cannot be used to kill, by definition, it's not a weapon.



You might want to talk to an Eskrima guy about that...and your definition is flawed. a chair, a rolled up newspaper and a set of keys can all be a weapon for self defense....nowhere in the definition of weapon is "kill" used to define it and changing the definition just to be right is not acceptable, sorry

 a weapon is something that is used for fighting or attacking someone or for defending yourself when someone is attacking you...that would be the definition.... It is also defined rather similarly in multiple state penal codes....


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## mograph (Jun 24, 2014)

Xue Sheng said:


> ...It is also defined rather similarly in multiple state penal codes....


Canadian Criminal Code: 

_Weapon means any thing used, designed to be used or intended for use
(a) in causing death or injury to any person, or
(b) for the purpose of threatening or intimidating any person
and, without restricting the generality of the foregoing, includes a firearm._


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## Blindside (Jun 24, 2014)

Rattan is a training tool, not a fighting weapon.  Sure, you can fight with it, but you wouldn't want to, in FMA weapons are made out of hardwood, horn, or steel.
Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express


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## blindsage (Jun 26, 2014)

But if you hit somebody hard in the temple, throat, back of neck, solar plexus, etc. a rattan weapon could kill, right?  Of course that goes for any number of things.  So, wait, I guess it doesn't take much to kill.  So, I guess being able to kill is a ridiculous standard for something being defined as a weapon, huh?


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