# Bennefits of studying Judo?



## BmillerWarrior (Nov 27, 2017)

What are some bennefits of studying Judo? Looking for responses from current judokas or anyone who have studied Judo. Also any advice for a beginner would be great.


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## lklawson (Nov 29, 2017)

Decide what you want to get out of it and work toward that goal.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Nov 29, 2017)

BmillerWarrior said:


> What are some bennefits of studying Judo?


To learn a throwing art will change your attitude toward how you may train your striking art. 

You will understand that

- using your opponent's body weight to develop MA skill is faster than kick/punch into the thin air.
- each and every dependable MA skill will require at least 6 months of development time.
- it's not how much that you know in your head that's important. It's how well you can do on your body that's important.
- every technique has counters. Every counter also has counters.
- all MA skill require entering strategy and finish strategy.
- attack both legs if you can, otherwise attack one leg after another.
- if you want to push/pull, you need to pull/push first.
- ...


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## PiedmontChun (Jan 2, 2018)

Judo will teach you how to fall and be thrown without getting hurt, like no other art will. Seriously. I know lots of systems have breakfalling as part of curriculum, but the mechanics of many Judo throws puts you on the ground so quickly and efficiently, so its unavoidable to not learn to deal with it. At a high competitive level, you even see judokas contort or twist their bodies out of a throw and land all kinds of ways to avoid their back slapping the mat and therefore losing the match (not safer, just impressive you can learn that kind of control). I went into Judo having some striking experience (Wing Chun) but no grappling experience, and not super athletic. For me, learning to fall and somewhat still be in control of my body when I could not control the fact I was being thrown, was just huge honestly. Once you can fall, 1) you don't fear it so much, 2) you can also feel it coming, and 3) you can react and regain good position after falling.

Grips. Judo will teach you how to grip someone's clothing and really use it against them in self-defense, and vice versa how to deal with others gripping you. This is also pretty huge, and other arts are pretty hit and miss on how much they focus on this. In Judo, dealing with grips becomes second nature.


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## MI_martialist (Jan 2, 2018)

You learn Judo.


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## Headhunter (Jan 2, 2018)

MI_martialist said:


> You learn Judo.


Very informative


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## Flatfish (Jan 2, 2018)

Well you learn grappling in stand up and on the ground, the latter not as much as BJJ but  still useful. The benefits depend on what you want to learn.


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## Anarax (Jan 2, 2018)

BmillerWarrior said:


> What are some bennefits of studying Judo? Looking for responses from current judokas or anyone who have studied Judo. Also any advice for a beginner would be great.



I studied Japanese Jujitsu which is very similar to Judo. You will learn a lot of important concepts in Judo that include but aren't limited to weight distribution, balance, leverage and positioning. From my experience break falls are crucial to learn, practice them on your own but with caution. Being able to take a fall without tensing up will help you avoid injuries.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Jan 3, 2018)

The "sport" Judo has 2 weakness.

1. No jacket wrestling.
2. Apply throwing skill in kick/punch environment.

If your opponent only has T-shirt on, when he tries to knock your head off, how will you be able to create a chance to apply your Judo throw? IMO, this is a very important issue.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Jan 3, 2018)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> The "sport" Judo has 2 weakness.
> 
> 1. No jacket wrestling.
> 2. Apply throwing skill in kick/punch environment.
> ...


There as plenty of throws in judo that don't need the gi, or are very easy to adapt.


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## Gerry Seymour (Jan 4, 2018)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> The "sport" Judo has 2 weakness.
> 
> 1. No jacket wrestling.
> 2. Apply throwing skill in kick/punch environment.
> ...


Most Judo throws can be easily delivered without the use of the clothing grab, with minimal practice. And many kinds of clothing will suffice for some of the uses Judoka train.


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## lklawson (Jan 4, 2018)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> The "sport" Judo has 2 weakness.
> 
> 1. No jacket wrestling.
> 2. Apply throwing skill in kick/punch environment.
> ...


Ummm...  No.

Sorry, but this just isn't right.  I've seen lots of evidence that neither of these objections are particularly true.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## Kung Fu Wang (Jan 4, 2018)

kempodisciple said:


> There as plenty of throws in judo that don't need the gi, or are very easy to adapt.





gpseymour said:


> Most Judo throws can be easily delivered without the use of the clothing grab, with minimal practice. And many kinds of clothing will suffice for some of the uses Judoka train.





lklawson said:


> Sorry, but this just isn't right.  I've seen lots of evidence that neither of these objections are particularly true.


Besides the issue of dealing with punch/kick, Judo jacket throw depends on:

1. sleeve hold - can be replaced by arm wrap.
2. front lapel hold - has no replacement.
3. upper collar hold - can be replaced by single neck tie, but has less pulling ability.
4. back belt hold - can be replaced by waist surround, but not effective when your opponent has fat waist line.

Different contact points training such as under hook, over hook, head lock, .... can be added in. But it all requires extra training.

When you switch from jacket to no jacket, you will suddenly realize that there are 2 things that you no longer be able to do.

1. Use stiff arm to hold your opponent back.
2. Pull your opponent's jack to throw him.

In the following picture, in no jacket Judo, the blue guy's right hand hold will no longer be available.


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## JP3 (Jan 4, 2018)

Grappling arts such as BJJ and Judo classes are some of the toughest conditioning, as in your aerobic conditioning, you can do. It's a great workout, so judo, which was "created" as a means of physical education (but, drawn out of jujutsu so the techniques can be devastatingly effective) is very good for your body as long as you train your way into it. Good for conditioning, strength development, coordination, etc. From the finesse side, to get "good" at judo, you have to learn, almost internalize, concepts of balance and posture, and comparative body relationships. It's a trip, learning judo. Some of the most fun I've ever had on the mat.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Jan 4, 2018)

If you look at this Judo throw, You will find out that the technique starts from both your hands have the correct grips on your opponent's Judo jacket. How to get your grips in a

1. jacket wrestling environment,
2. no-jacket wrestling environment,
3. kick/punch environment,

are not explained.






IMO, a detail Judo throw should start from outside of the kicking range. What will happen when you try to get your grips, your opponent tries to punch/kick you?

In other words, you will need "entering strategy - how to move in and obtain your contact points" before you can apply "finishing strategy - throw your opponent".


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## Gerry Seymour (Jan 5, 2018)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> If you look at this Judo throw, You will find out that the technique starts from both your hands have the correct grips on your opponent's Judo jacket. How to get your grips in a
> 
> 1. jacket wrestling environment,
> 2. no-jacket wrestling environment,
> ...


Just because it's not explained in that bit, doesn't mean it's not understood. My Judo instructor taught for competition, so taught only approaches for competition. Even with my pretty sparse training, I had no trouble using my Judo techniques when playing around with friends who were wrestlers, with neither of us wearing a gi.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Jan 6, 2018)

gpseymour said:


> Just because it's not explained in that bit, doesn't mean it's not understood.


Your logic "Just because ..., doesn't mean ..." can also be applied as:

- Just because I'm poor, doesn't mean I'm not rich.
- Just because I'm ugly, doesn't mean I'm not good looking.
- Just because I'm stupid, doesn't mean I'm not smart.
- ...

Let's not discuss so abstract. Let's discuss with some concrete examples.

Without Judo jacket, what will be your "pulling contact points"?


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## Gerry Seymour (Jan 6, 2018)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> Your logic "Just because ..., doesn't mean ..." can also be applied as:
> 
> - Just because I'm poor, doesn't mean I'm not rich.
> - Just because I'm ugly, doesn't mean I'm not good looking.
> ...


Arms. I teach osoto gari very similarly to how I learned it in Judo, just replacing jacket holds with am leverage. Hip throws move from sleeve and scarf grips to arm and under hook.


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## PiedmontChun (Jan 8, 2018)

gpseymour said:


> Just because it's not explained in that bit, doesn't mean it's not understood. My Judo instructor taught for competition, so taught only approaches for competition. Even with my pretty sparse training, I had no trouble using my Judo techniques when playing around with friends who were wrestlers, with neither of us wearing a gi.


I agree with this. I have done a little bit of no-gi BJJ recently, and broke people's grips (to their amazement) while standing, gave them a hell of time of time staying out of my underhook grip as well. Many Judo throws like O Goshi develop getting and using an underhook, and others can be adapted easily to use an underhook when there is no lapel to grip. I also had a good base without having to crouch pretty low like a wrestler, which I credit Judo for developing, even in the short time I did it.


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## JR 137 (Jan 8, 2018)

From a non-judoka perspective...

Judo throws seem very similar to wrestling throws in theory/principle.  It’s about push-pull, momentum, leverage, center of gravity, etc.  The main difference I’ve seen is Judo throws often involve the thrower using a leg to add to the effectiveness of the throw at times.

If a judoka absolutely has to use the opponent’s gi to make the throw, it seems he/she’s relying a bit too much on muscling the throw vs purely technique.  Grabbing the gi definitely makes the throw more effective and harder to counter, but it seems a proficient judoka doesn’t absolutely need it and could easily adapt to not having that option available.

IMO a judoka could easily practice without relying on the gi whenever he/she wants.  He/she would only have to consciously tell themself not to rely on the gi during practice and randori.  It doesn’t have to literally be no-gi to effectively be “no-gi.”

Again, non-judoka speaking.


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## lklawson (Jan 8, 2018)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> Besides the issue of dealing with punch/kick, Judo jacket throw depends on:
> 
> 1. sleeve hold - can be replaced by arm wrap.
> 2. front lapel hold - has no replacement.
> ...


I'm sorry friend but your understanding of Judo throws is superficial. Yes, they are "traditionally" taught as jacket grips but that certainly doesn't require those grips most of the time.  As an example, Koshi Guruma is "traditionally" taught with a sleeve pull.  But it is child's play to switch from a sleeve grip to a wrist or elbow grip for no-jacket throwing.  In fact, this is the way that old school pugilistic throws analogous to Koshi Guruma, a sub-set of the Cross-Buttock, were performed.




19191 by lklawson on MartialTalk.Com - Friendly Martial Arts Forum Community

To claim that Judo depends upon or even requires the jacket grips is simply a misunderstanding.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## lklawson (Jan 8, 2018)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> If you look at this Judo throw, You will find out that the technique starts from both your hands have the correct grips on your opponent's Judo jacket. How to get your grips in a
> 
> 1. jacket wrestling environment,
> 2. no-jacket wrestling environment,
> ...


O Soto Gari?  Seriously?  I teach O Soto "no gi" all the time.  The pugilism version is called Back-Heel.



 

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## Gerry Seymour (Jan 8, 2018)

lklawson said:


> O Soto Gari?  Seriously?  I teach O Soto "no gi" all the time.  The pugilism version is called Back-Heel.
> 
> View attachment 21192
> 
> ...


The version I teach looks similar to that, just move the hand grips. His right hand would ideally be in almost an overhook position, pulling toward his hip. His left hand would ideally be above the opposite elbow and underneath the arm (does that make sense?), pushing toward his opponent's ear. That puts the opponent in basically the same position. In fact, now I want to play a bit with the position in that picture to see what feels different. It's a versatile technique (especially as broadly as we view it as our "Leg Sweep"), and one I resort to rather readily.


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## lklawson (Jan 9, 2018)

gpseymour said:


> The version I teach looks similar to that, just move the hand grips. His right hand would ideally be in almost an overhook position, pulling toward his hip. His left hand would ideally be above the opposite elbow and underneath the arm (does that make sense?), pushing toward his opponent's ear. That puts the opponent in basically the same position. In fact, now I want to play a bit with the position in that picture to see what feels different. It's a versatile technique (especially as broadly as we view it as our "Leg Sweep"), and one I resort to rather readily.


Quite a bit of variation in "no gi" options.  Here are two from Edwards and one from "Gunner" Moir.

 

 



Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## Gerry Seymour (Jan 9, 2018)

lklawson said:


> Quite a bit of variation in "no gi" options.  Here are two from Edwards and one from "Gunner" Moir.View attachment 21196 View attachment 21197 View attachment 21198
> 
> Peace favor your sword,
> Kirk


The first two are quite similar to variations I've taught and used (used the first one - the double-leg variation) to shut down a BB who was being too rough with yellow belt students. The more I think about it, the more I think this might be my favorite technique, though not necessarily the one I use the most.


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## PiedmontChun (Jan 15, 2018)

You watch a couple White Belt / Yellow Belt level Judo tournaments.... and you see a ton of mediocre Osoto Gari attempts. Its pretty instinctive to sweep / trip / throw someone by attacking the back of their supporting leg, which is why some variation of it seems to be in nearly every fighting system and people also take to it quickly as a "go to" technique. There is a *lot* of nuance there though.
In Judo, the sleeve grip on the elbow of the gi really helps unbalance the opponent and 'load' their weight onto the leg you are attacking, but the throw is still there without it. The mid / high lapel grip really helps drive the opponent back and makes for a more explosive throw, but hooking on the back of their neck and bracing your forearm / elbow into their chest if there is no gi works too. Even in the gi, I remember our Judo club working a variant that looked a bit like a clothesline - no grips, just our normal lapel gripping hand coming across the body and driving the opponent backward as we stepped thru and attacked the leg. There are so many ways to make a throw like that work, some better, some more crude, but because the basic mechanics exist in all of them.


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## BmillerWarrior (Jan 25, 2018)

I apologize, I am gay and just needed someone to give me some attention. I love MMA Guys!


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## BmillerWarrior (Jan 25, 2018)

I apologize, I am gay and just needed someone to give me some attention. I love MMA Guys!


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## kravmaga1 (Feb 9, 2018)

Benefits of learning Judo are:

Developing physical fitness.
Growth in strength and flexibility.
Increased speed and agility.
Greater endurance.
Good static and dynamic balance.
Improved reaction time.
Excellent coordination.
Increased self-confidence.


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