# 'Bear and the Ram' naming conventions



## satans.barber (Oct 29, 2003)

With regards to 'Bear and the Ram', where does the Ram come from 

From previous experience, all of the Ram techniques that I know indicate a tackle of some kind, yet in this case the person acting as the ram is doing a right punch..?

Why is it not called 'Bear and the Mace' for example?

I was wondering if this was because of some historical reason, or maybe because of an application that I've overlooked (this is a 1st Dan technique in my syllabus, so I've only just coem accross it, and haven't had chance to properly mull it over yet!).

Thankyou,

Ian.


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## rmcrobertson (Oct 29, 2003)

Yeah, I've wondered about that too...only thing I can figure out, is that the front guy's charging you while you're stuck in place...but I don't find that terribly convincing, as an explanation...

Then, there's Reprimanding the Bears, a rather similar technique...but the name seems more comprehensible...

In short, I dunno either.


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## dcence (Oct 29, 2003)

As I understand it the "Ram" refers to the oncoming  fist.  I know it would  seem to refer to a tackle, but look at the pictures in  Parker's "Secrets of Chinese Karate" where he is describing the  natural weapons and  there are  little pictures of things inset next to the different natural weapons you can make.  With the fist is a ram.  Same with Ram and the Eagle

derek


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## cdhall (Oct 29, 2003)

I'm new to all these but I think Mr. Ence probably has it well-covered.  

I did want to add my theory that it is not Bear and Mace because both attackers would not then be "animals."  Are all the 2Man Attacks named for animals?  Bear and the Ram, Gathering the Snakes, Courting the Tiger (just one Tiger?), Grasping Eagles, etc.  

There seem to be far fewer 2Man Attacks than I thought. I know this is not all of them.

Perhaps someone will list them here.  Here is my guess at them (from Mr. Billings' site of course http://www.kenpo-texas.com/techref.html#24 Tech Charts):

*	Falcons of Force
*	The Bear and the Ram
*	Courting the Tiger
*	Gathering the Snakes_
*	Grasping Eagles
*	Snakes of Wisdom

*	Marriage of the Rams
*	The Ram and the Eagle
*	Reprimanding the Bears

I know I could have checked to see if they were all 2Man Attacks but that would leave no work for someone else.


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## Michael Billings (Oct 30, 2003)

Also:

Parting of the Snakes


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## Goldendragon7 (Oct 30, 2003)

> _Orig. posted by satans.barber _*
> With regards to 'Bear and the Ram', where does the Ram come from   Thankyou,  Ian. *



*BEAR AND THE RAM*
The name of this technique stems from two sources: (1) Your rear opponent is likened to a bear because he applies a rear bear-hug. (2) Your front opponent is likened to a ram, because the front two knuckles of his punching hand have been historically referred to as "Ram's Horns". Thus the technique has been given the name, The Bear and the Ram.



> _Orig. posted by rmcrobertson _*
> Then, there's Reprimanding the Bears, a rather similar technique...but the name seems more comprehensible...  In short, I dunno either.
> *



*REPRIMANDING THE BEARS*
The name of this technique stems from the movements and positions, utilized by your two opponents, that resemble the mauling tactics of a bear. It is the knowledge learned to reprimand, protect, as well as overcome such action, that gave this technique its name -- Reprimanding the Bears. 

There ya go.

:asian:


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## Shodan (Oct 30, 2003)

Curious........did Mr. Parker name all the techniques himself or did other people give him suggestions- students, friends, etc??

  Thanks-
                 :asian:  :karate:


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## Goldendragon7 (Oct 30, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Shodan _
> *Curious........did Mr. Parker name all the techniques himself or did other people give him suggestions- students, friends, etc??  Thanks-
> :asian:  :karate:
> *



Both

:asian:


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## satans.barber (Oct 30, 2003)

Thanks all, it makes more sense now!

Ian.


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## MisterMike (Oct 31, 2003)

> I did want to add my theory that it is not Bear and Mace because both attackers would not then be "animals." Are all the 2Man Attacks named for animals? Bear and the Ram, Gathering the Snakes, Courting the Tiger (just one Tiger?), Grasping Eagles, etc.



Maybe it is YOU who are the Tiger in that one. Just a thought...

I've found that some techniques are ambiguous as to what the name is referring.


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## jeffkyle (Oct 31, 2003)

> _Originally posted by MisterMike _
> *Maybe it is YOU who are the Tiger in that one. Just a thought...
> 
> I've found that some techniques are ambiguous as to what the name is referring. *



Which ones??


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## MisterMike (Oct 31, 2003)

> _Originally posted by jeffkyle _
> *Which ones?? *



I should have made that statement sound more past tense. During my studies, I remember hearing a technique for the first time and saying to myself, "What on Earth..." but my teacher always explained the connection in the end.


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## Goldendragon7 (Nov 5, 2003)

> _Originally posted by cdhall _*
> Are all the 2Man Attacks named for animals?
> *



Not really.  The 2 man attacks contain the use of "and the", or "of the" or plurals in the names such as "Courting".

:asian:


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