# Superman renounces US citizenship.



## Omar B (Apr 28, 2011)

So I was supposed to be in a meeting but 2 people didn't show yet so I'm puttering around with nothing to do.

An issue has been dancing around my head since last Wednesday.  Action Comics #900 which was a super sized issue with many special guest writers and artists had something a little shocking to some.

Speaking to the nation's National Security advisor he said ""Truth, justice and the American way - it's not enough  anymore.  I'm tired of having my actions construed as instruments of US policy, I've been thinking too small. I realize that now."  

Some people are against the idea, some are all for it.  Personally I think it's an outgrowth of Batman (Bruce Wayne's) "Batman International" storyline going on now where Bruce has left Gotham to Dick Grayson's Batman and Bruce's own Son Damian as Robin.  He's traveling around unifying the superheros who started out because they were inspired by Batman to pick up the fight.  Like England's Knight and Squire.




















Some are gonna take some knee jerk reaction about him being American and that's it.  But one could argue that he is Kryptonian rather and he has always protected the entire planet (universe indeed).  Or the way I look at it, my father's from India, I was born in Jamaica, I've lived in 8 countries, but I am American.


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## CoryKS (Apr 28, 2011)

Dude wasn't even born on this planet.  He's an illegal alien.


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## Omar B (Apr 28, 2011)

I hear that man.  Much like myself he is an immigrant and loyal to the USA.  But I care very deeply about the countries of my birth and father as well as the ones I've lived.  One can only imagine how Kal El feels since he has activly participated in events all over the world.


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## LuckyKBoxer (Apr 28, 2011)

I could care less Supes is a *****.


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## Omar B (Apr 28, 2011)

Is a what?









The Batman International team thus far.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batmen_of_All_Nations http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Batmen_of_All_Nations


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## CoryKS (Apr 28, 2011)

Omar B said:


> I hear that man. Much like myself he is an immigrant and loyal to the USA. But I care very deeply about the countries of my birth and father as well as the ones I've lived. One can only imagine how Kal El feels since he has activly participated in events all over the world.


 
No, I agree.  I figured that the point of having him land in the rural US was that it was being raised by a midwestern farm couple with traditional values that shaped his morality and guided him toward his role as a hero, not that it made him specifically or exclusively American.  I think there was something in The Dark Knight Returns when the nuclear bomb detonated where he alluded to his adoptive world, and it seems to me that that would be the greater loyalty for someone who is not of this planet.


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## Omar B (Apr 28, 2011)

One can also cite The Dark Knight Returns where they take the "truth, justice' and the American way" to the extreme and Superman's just a tool for Reagan and the Military helping to fight that proxy battle between US and Russia in Maltise.


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## CoryKS (Apr 28, 2011)

Omar B said:


> One can also cite The Dark Knight Returns where they take the "truth, justice' and the American way" to the extreme and Superman's just a tool for Reagan and the Military helping to fight that proxy battle between US and Russia in Maltise.


 
Yeah, it's like that's the situation they are trying to divorce from with this storyline.


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## Omar B (Apr 28, 2011)

Could be.  Although the conspiracy theorists are all attwitter about Henry Cavill being cast as Superman since he is English.  Personally, I would have never thought Cavill in a million years for the role but I'm no casting director.  But he is 4 inches shorter than Superman should be.


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## K-man (Apr 28, 2011)

Seems to me Donald probably demanded to see the birth certificate and Super told him to F... off!  He's welcome here but he won't find as much work  ... I mean crime fighting and stuff!


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## granfire (Apr 28, 2011)

Omar B said:


> Could be.  Although the conspiracy theorists are all attwitter about Henry Cavill being cast as Superman since he is English.  Personally, I would have never thought Cavill in a million years for the role but I'm no casting director.  But he is 4 inches shorter than Superman should be.



I am pretty sure you won't miss those 4 inches on the big screen!
They have experience in making the average man look good there! ^_^


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## Bill Mattocks (Apr 28, 2011)

Superman was awarded 'honorary' citizenship by _'All the Countries of the UN'_ in 1961, which would have included the USA.  So I suppose he could renounce his US citizenship if he wanted to.

However, the US State Department has a very strict procedure for renouncing US citizenship.  You can't just blag it around that you're done and all and have it stick.


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## girlbug2 (Apr 28, 2011)

granfire said:


> I am pretty sure you won't miss those 4 inches on the big screen!
> They have experience in making the average man look good there! ^_^


 
I am trying...so...hard...to resist...


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## Omar B (Apr 28, 2011)

Bill Mattocks said:


> Superman was awarded 'honorary' citizenship by _'All the Countries of the UN'_ in 1961, which would have included the USA.  So I suppose he could renounce his US citizenship if he wanted to.
> 
> However, the US State Department has a very strict procedure for renouncing US citizenship.  You can't just blag it around that you're done and all and have it stick.



Well since Superman never gets carded, IDed or anything of the sort I don't see it as an issue.  Besides, Clark Kent is still American, as is his wife and son, plus he owns lots of property, pretty nice house in the city and lots of land out there in Kansas (that he still manages to farm).


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## CoryKS (Apr 28, 2011)

Bill Mattocks said:


> Superman was awarded 'honorary' citizenship by _'All the Countries of the UN'_ in 1961, which would have included the USA. So I suppose he could renounce his US citizenship if he wanted to.
> 
> However, the US State Department has a very strict procedure for renouncing US citizenship. You can't just blag it around that you're done and all and have it stick.


 
That's because they want their tax dollars.  Does Superman pay taxes?  Clark Kent probably does, I wonder if he's going to renounce also.


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## Bill Mattocks (Apr 28, 2011)

Omar B said:


> Well since Superman never gets carded, IDed or anything of the sort I don't see it as an issue.  Besides, Clark Kent is still American, as is his wife and son, plus he owns lots of property, pretty nice house in the city and lots of land out there in Kansas (that he still manages to farm).



Well, wait a minute.  When did Clark Kent become an American citizen?  He was legally adopted by the Kents, but that doesn't confer citizenship; at least it did not at that time.  Since 2000, a new US law confers automatic citizenship on foreign babies adopted and brought to the USA legally by parents who are US citizens, but since Kal-El's foreign birth wasn't recorded, nor was he 'brought into the US' after his adoption, I doubt even that would apply to Clark Kent.

In fact, it would be interesting to know how he managed to come by a Social Security card, or how he proves his citizenship to his employer, the Daily Planet.  By law, they have to maintain an I-9 form on him, proving his right to legally work in the USA.  Just being adopted by parents who are US citizens doesn't make him one.

Now, Clark Kent's son would be a US citizen by birth; an anchor baby.  I've been out of the loop - I didn't even know he had married.


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## Omar B (Apr 28, 2011)

Your going off of an old version of the story.  Since the Superman restart in the 80's Clark has been an American Citizen.  The Superman movies (including Superman Returns) follow the old version of the story (since the first one was before the comic restart) with the elderly parents and the father dieing.  In the current story they are a younger couple, they found him and due to being isolated and being snowed in for months it was quite easy to convince the town that Martha gave birth during the winter.  Everyone knows John and Martha have been trying for years and people accepted him as their miracle baby.  Doesnt hurt that he looks almost exactly like his adopted dad too.






  Last page -


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## Omar B (Apr 28, 2011)

Oh, Here's Kal El with the chip off the old blow Kon El (Conner Kent).


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## Bill Mattocks (Apr 28, 2011)

Then he's definitely an illegal alien.  Just because _"people accepted"_ the lie that he was born to the Kents, he wasn't.  Tsk, tsk.


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## Omar B (Apr 28, 2011)

I love that you fixate on the "how" he is a citizen part of the alien living god story.  I would hate to watch a movie like Beastmaster with you, fuy born from a cow but you would fixate on the who really owns the cow part.

But yeah, small town in the country, where most births are at home.  Sure the town doctor/midwife/whoever else is involed in such paperwork would see to him having the necessary paper ... so yeah he is a citizen.  Fact is it happened even if it was fraudulent and a few people in town know.  Small town hide big secrets.


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## CoryKS (Apr 28, 2011)

Omar B said:


> I love that you fixate on the "how" he is a citizen part of the alien living god story.  I would hate to watch a movie like Beastmaster with you, fuy born from a cow but you would fixate on the who really owns the cow part.
> 
> But yeah, small town in the country, where most births are at home.  Sure the town doctor/midwife/whoever else is involed in such paperwork would see to him having the necessary paper ... so yeah he is a citizen.  Fact is it happened even if it was fraudulent and a few people in town know.  Small town hide big secrets.



Bad example.  The cow was just a surrogate, not the mother.

I was not aware that they changed the story of Superman's origin.  Makes you wonder what else they're not telling us about.  Awfully suspicious there, "Kal El", if that is indeed your name.


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## Omar B (Apr 28, 2011)

It was not changed, just updated and clarified.  The whole mild mannered thing was thrown out because an award winning reporter working for one of the biggest papers in the world is no shrinking violet.  They made him a strong confident man.

They also made the Kents much younger so they could actually be parents.  In the original his dad died at 16 and his mother at 22.  So he was alone in the world with his secret, now he's got his family as a sounding board and support.  Originally he didn't even go to college, he just showed up at the Planet when he was 32 with articles and Perry hired him, in the current version he went to college and traveled the world doing freelance work till the Planet snapped him up.

Notice how the TV shows Lois & Clark didn't have a nerd Clark or dead parents, nor does Smallville.  Because they are working off the version of the story that started in the 80's.  While Superman Returns because it follows the original 70's Donner movies they had to maintain the nerd Clark and such.


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## Omar B (Apr 29, 2011)

CoryKS said:


> Bad example.  The cow was just a surrogate, not the mother.
> 
> I was not aware that they changed the story of Superman's origin.  Makes you wonder what else they're not telling us about.  Awfully suspicious there, "Kal El", if that is indeed your name.



I never thought I would say this, but I gotta watch Beastmaster again.


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## CoryKS (Apr 29, 2011)

Omar B said:


> I never thought I would say this, but I gotta watch Beastmaster again.


 
Tanya Roberts.  Rowr.


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## granfire (Apr 29, 2011)

bwahahahahahahaha... guy moments....




anyhow, back to SUPERMAN....

mild mannered don't get you far these days...


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## yorkshirelad (Apr 29, 2011)

I thought Doomsday killed Superman. Let's just have the bastard killed for good and stop the nonsense.


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## Omar B (Apr 29, 2011)

No way dude, you can't keep a good man down.  Since his resurrection (even more christ allusions, which are intended) he has beaten several clones of Doomsday.  At this point he's the most powerful he has ever been.  

At some point he grows so powerful he moves into the sun ... or if you follow Grant Morrison's story he actually keeps the damn thing running (Atlas allusions intended).


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## Bob Hubbard (Apr 30, 2011)

I've been rolling this one around in my head for a bit.

Nope. Don't like it.

Ok, Batman, I can see the whole Inc. story line.  He's basically looking for a way to extend his reach, keep his mission going when he's no longer there to do it, and solve some of those identity issues. He's not moving to England, he's looking for an English crime fighter who is comparable with his ideals, to fund, train and extend his coverage.  He's basically building a Batman Army.  It works.

But the whole "Superman's for the world" thing.....no. Sorry.  Superman IS and American icon.  He wears the American colors, and was born at a time when America was a shining beacon to the world. When America was the 'must goto' destination of the worlds hopeful.  This...is a turning away from that all, little more to me than yet another attempt to dilute, apologize, distance from failed politics and bad PR.  I expect it will backfire on DC.  What next, Wonder Woman switches to a new uniform that's all black spandex and also drops the RWB?


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## Steve (Apr 30, 2011)

It remains to be seen, but I'm surprised you capitalists are forgetting that DC is a business, not a political activist group.  Their job is to make money and sell comic books first.  Anything else is extra.


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## Omar B (Apr 30, 2011)

Good points guys.  My whole thing about Superman's status as an American icon is this, I was a huge Superman fan growing up, even before my family moved to the US.  I was there every Saturday after karate at the comic shop buying my Superman, Batman, Flash, Green Lantern and Hulk (for some reason as a kid I really loved Hulk, go figure).

In the comics he has always been depicted as a savior for the world and even the universe several times.  Maybe like Bruce stepping aside as Batman leaving the role to his protege and son so he can use his business acumen at running a big machine to expand his mission.  I think just like that Superman might just be stepping up and finally saying, this is bigger than Metropolis, Kansas and even the US as a whole.

I totally understand how people can be upset about it.  I am too, really.  But I try to see it from the other side.  It kinda works in the context of the story and it will sell issues for DC.  At this point Batman is the highest selling character in comics and coming up on a new Superman movie they have to start pushing the character forward again, put him in the public eye.  Just like how the Clark and Lois wedding in the comic coincided with the TV show Lois and Clark.


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## granfire (Apr 30, 2011)

stevebjj said:


> It remains to be seen, but I'm surprised you capitalists are forgetting that DC is a business, not a political activist group.  Their job is to make money and sell comic books first.  Anything else is extra.




:lfao:

(so there goes the communist argument...)


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## Randy Strausbaugh (Apr 30, 2011)

Omar B said:


> At this point he's the most powerful he has ever been.


Hmm. Nope, not quite. I recall a story from the 60's in which Myxyzptlik made Supes sneeze. For safety's sake, he flew to another solar system before letting loose. The sneeze destroyed all of the planets (uninhabited) in the system. He's not that powerful (or that fast) today.


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## Omar B (Apr 30, 2011)

Yeah, but that was back in the day when they did silly stuff like super sneezes.  









But in modern times they have upped his power levels to levels just as high as back then.  Just not the silly ones.  He's more of a bruiser now.


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## LuckyKBoxer (Apr 30, 2011)

Omar B said:


> Is a what?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

no I still think supes is a *****... I am more vigilante hero then fantasy goodie goodie boy supes... I like Batman, Punisher, Deadpool, Wolverine, Daredevil, Electra.. mostly Marvel heros, and anyone with an edge... I like the smallville series, but I never really could get into the superman titled comics.


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## granfire (Apr 30, 2011)

:highfive:


This is so nerdy!

opcorn:



:lfao:


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## Omar B (Apr 30, 2011)

I hear ya man, we both chatted about Punisher and Moon Knight before.


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## Cryozombie (May 3, 2011)

I do kinda wonder what's going on in the comic book world...

American Icon Captain America?  Killed.

American Icon Superman?  Giving up "The American Way" for world Citizenship

Gi Joe, a Real American Hero?  Became the International Task Force.

There is a definate trend going on here I think...


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## granfire (May 3, 2011)

Cryozombie said:


> I do kinda wonder what's going on in the comic book world...
> 
> American Icon Captain America?  Killed.
> 
> ...




Dagnabbit, gotta change your red white and blue for the baby blue and white of the UN?



No man is an island....and the world is growing smaller.


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## punisher73 (May 3, 2011)

I agree, Superman was always "truth, justice and the American way".  But, he has always maitained that he was there to help whoever needed it from evil.

Having him renounce his US citizenship is kind of a slap in the face.  It's another effort to have a world gov't and not recognize or have pride in your country.


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## granfire (May 3, 2011)

punisher73 said:


> I agree, Superman was always "truth, justice and the American way".  But, he has always maitained that he was there to help whoever needed it from evil.
> 
> Having him renounce his US citizenship is kind of a slap in the face.  It's another effort to have a world gov't and not recognize or have pride in your country.




maybe he is just fed up with the partisan crud...


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## crushing (May 3, 2011)

granfire said:


> maybe he is just fed up with the partisan crud...


 
You don't think he would realize that partisanship leads to gridlock, and that gridlock is what helps prevent the government from doing stupid things in an accelerated manner?


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## Omar B (May 3, 2011)

Can I point out that #900 is the conclusion of (this current) conflict with Lex Luthor, a story which took about 30 pages to wrap up.  The rest were 2 page back-up stories meant to pad the issue.  The first was a 2 page peice on a scientist highering an engineer to build him a small experimental, story ends with you seeing the El family crest on the desk.  This specific story with the citizenship was about Superman standing in the middle of the ongoing protests with Ghadafi.  He stands there and does not move for 2 whole days, like a rock ... his presence stopped violence cold and the people's voices were heard.  This story reminds me of when Captain America took down Hitler.

Question is, are these couple back up stories at the end of an ongoing tale figure directly into continuity?  Non of the stories feature the current staff of Superman, the first is by Paul Dini who wrote on Batman The Animated Series and Detective Comics, then the story in question is by Dave Goyer who wrote the two most recent Batman movies as well as the upcoming one, and the last was a script/storyboard style piece by Richard Donner, the director of the first 2 Superman movies.

That's where the question comes in, is it in continuity?  Written by outside writers, no foreshadowing coming up on this, a backup story by Donner who clearly works on the pre-80's restart model of Superman ... which is without a doubt not in continuity with Superman now.


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## granfire (May 3, 2011)

Continuity is a <female dog> when you write your own thing front to finish.

I really can't blame a guy (or many) when they have serious lapses in a story that has likely been started long before they were a twinkle in their daddy's eye...

Writing a new chapter for the Man of Steel, that is a Super Heroic effort!


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## Omar B (May 6, 2011)

Omar B said:


> Can I point out that #900 is the conclusion of (this current) conflict with Lex Luthor, a story which took about 30 pages to wrap up.  The rest were 2 page back-up stories meant to pad the issue.  The first was a 2 page peice on a scientist highering an engineer to build him a small experimental, story ends with you seeing the El family crest on the desk.  This specific story with the citizenship was about Superman standing in the middle of the ongoing protests with Ghadafi.  He stands there and does not move for 2 whole days, like a rock ... his presence stopped violence cold and the people's voices were heard.  This story reminds me of when Captain America took down Hitler.
> 
> Question is, are these couple back up stories at the end of an ongoing tale figure directly into continuity?  Non of the stories feature the current staff of Superman, the first is by Paul Dini who wrote on Batman The Animated Series and Detective Comics, then the story in question is by Dave Goyer who wrote the two most recent Batman movies as well as the upcoming one, and the last was a script/storyboard style piece by Richard Donner, the director of the first 2 Superman movies.
> 
> That's where the question comes in, is it in continuity?  Written by outside writers, no foreshadowing coming up on this, a backup story by Donner who clearly works on the pre-80's restart model of Superman ... which is without a doubt not in continuity with Superman now.



Gotta quite myself because I'm so awesome.  Anyways, my theory about the story being out of continuity because it pretty much was a backup story at the end of an ongoing story (like what does the cartoon have to do with the feature film).  Well it's true, that story is not in continuity, Superman is still American.  I don't know if this is DC running scared or the way they planned it.  But as I said before, there was no foreshadowing in the lead up months.  Not even a mention of a trip to the middle east ... he's been in space, Conner and Mon El were holding things down at home.  http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansi...acktracks_Superman_renouncing_his_citizenship


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## LuckyKBoxer (May 6, 2011)

Omar B said:


> I hear ya man, we both chatted about Punisher and Moon Knight before.


 
Moon knight was a favorite of mine.
I actually just read Rick Riordans new book the throne of fire... cheesy teenage fiction books but they are a fun quick read, this series is about the egyptian gods and myths come alive in modern times... like the percy jackson series, but a little different. Khunsu is in it, made me decide to go pull my moon night collection out of storage and share it with my son.


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## Randy Strausbaugh (May 6, 2011)

Cryozombie said:


> American Icon Captain America? Killed.


Not any more. He was dead, but then he got better. James "Bucky" Barnes was wearing the suit and shield (before he was thrown into a Russian prison), Steve Rodgers now has Nick Fury's (then Tony Stark's, then Norman Osborne's) old job. Expect Steve back slinging the shield come July (in time for the Cap movie).


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## Randy Strausbaugh (May 6, 2011)

Omar B said:


> I don't know if this is DC running scared ...


That's where my money is riding. Word of this got around fast, and the negative feedback started immediately.


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## granfire (May 6, 2011)

Omar B said:


> Gotta quite myself because I'm so awesome.  Anyways, my theory about the story being out of continuity because it pretty much was a backup story at the end of an ongoing story (like what does the cartoon have to do with the feature film).  Well it's true, that story is not in continuity, Superman is still American.  I don't know if this is DC running scared or the way they planned it.  But as I said before, there was no foreshadowing in the lead up months.  Not even a mention of a trip to the middle east ... he's been in space, Conner and Mon El were holding things down at home.  http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansi...acktracks_Superman_renouncing_his_citizenship





:lfao:


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## Omar B (May 6, 2011)

granfire said:


> :lfao:



I deserve my own tribute thread about my awesome.


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## granfire (May 6, 2011)

you couldn't make it in to read it... swelled head and all!






^_^


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