# Throwing Knives



## scottcatchot (Mar 9, 2006)

I have recently started trying to learn to throw knives and was wondering if anyone could give me some pointers. I am really consistent with a throwing axe, sticking 6 out of seven throws. With a knife I suck. I always hit the target with the hilt. I have tried marking my distance and taking a step forward or back to try and get the correct rotation and regardless where I stand I still hit with the hilt. I usually attempt to throw holding the blade, but I tried throwing holding the hilt since I was always off half a rotation, and I still hit with the hilt. :idunno:


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## rutherford (Mar 9, 2006)

Hold your wrist straight when learning how to throw a knife.  You're probably unconsciously flicking your wrist and changing the rotation.  This is an advanced topic.

Also, don't be so concerned about the hilt hitting the target.  The point of throwing a knife isn't to get it to stick everytime because even the best knife throwers won't get it to stick every time if they're moving and the target is moving and distance is unsure.  It's a distraction, for the most part, giving you time to do something with a higher success rate.


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## rutherford (Mar 9, 2006)

Also, I really enjoy the "underhanded" throw where you hold the knife in the palm of your hand and release it straight off the tips of your fingers (Blade does rise a bit in flight).  In a short to medium distance there's no rotation, and the throw probably isn't good for a longer distances anyways.  If you put your body behind it right, it has nice power.


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## stickarts (Mar 9, 2006)

Sounds cool! I recently got some throwing knives as a gift. What should i buy or use as a target?


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## scottcatchot (Mar 9, 2006)

What I am using as a target, and I am just a biginning so .... Is a nice round slice out of a log about 6 inches thick and 2 1/2 ft diameter. I got it free from the local dump. I went and saw where there was some cut up trees out there and asked if i could have one and they let me. My kind of price. I have it mounted with eye bolts screwed into the "corners" ( I know it really doesn't have corners but close to where it curves) and I hang it by chains from a cross beam I attached to two cedar posts I stuck in the ground.


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## rutherford (Mar 9, 2006)

I prefer a nice, round, somewhat soft log set on its side and the target on one end.  The circular grains mean your knife can hit in a variety of ways and still stick easily.

But, really, you can use just about anything you don't mind putting holes in.  And you should always be very careful of bounce-back.

It goes without saying that you don't learn to throw with a good set of knives.  You're going to beat them up.  You'll probably lose a few.  It happens.

And, it's really important to try out a variety of knife sizes and balances.

EDIT - scottcatchot, that sounds like a very nice setup.


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## stickarts (Mar 9, 2006)

Awesome! thanks for the advice! Looking forward to trying it out.


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## Flying Crane (Mar 9, 2006)

I am by no means an expert on this, but a number of years ago I spent some time playing with throwing knives to see if I could figure them out.  I had no formal training, just wanted to be up front about that.

I started with a basic grip of the blade, and arbitrarily picked three different points on the blade at which I would grip it: the point, about half way up the blade, and more fully up the blade.   I then practiced throwing from each of these grips, to try and get used to how quickly the knife would rotate when thrown from each grip.  I started with just a half rotation (gripping the point, the knife only has to rotate half way around to stick in the target).  Of course this was a very short range throw, but was easy to figure out the distance for each of the grips.  I also tried to be as consistent as possible with how I throw each time, not over flick the rotation, but rather get a nice, easy, and consistent rotation each time.

Then, I started to work on a one and one half rotation, for a longer throw, again working it from each of the three grips and figuring out the distance.  From there, one could go on to two and one half, three and one half, etc. rotations for greater distances, but it definitely became much less consistent in sticking the target.  

My reasoning was that as I became proficient in judging distance I could choose an appropriate grip and number of rotations.  For something that seemed in between, I could pick the most apropriate grip and then "fudge" the throw a bit with some extra flick to rotate the blade a bit faster, for instance.

My approach gave some mixed results, I never became terribly consistent at the greater distances, but perhaps the approach has some merit.

Another thing I did was to practice juggling the knives.  This gives you more experience in timing the rotation of the knives so you always catch them by the handle.


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## scottcatchot (Mar 9, 2006)

Flying Crane said:
			
		

> IAnother thing I did was to practice juggling the knives. This gives you more experience in timing the rotation of the knives so you always catch them by the handle.


 
Preferably without losing any fingers right?:uhyeah:


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## Flying Crane (Mar 9, 2006)

scottcatchot said:
			
		

> Preferably without losing any fingers right?:uhyeah:


 
well I started with ten, figured there were a few to spare...


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## bshovan (Mar 9, 2006)

Great thread to talk about but always remember to keep your ego in check and have safety- THAT'S SAFETY- of first concern. Just like in most Martial Arts a little knowledge can be dangerous if not trained by a competent instructor. I've been engaged in edged weapons throwing for over 30 years and again- keep safety of first concern.
Be cognitive of the target your throwing at and those around you. Rebounds or penetrating through a soft target may injure others and yourself. Make sure all people are behind you or in a safe area. Make sure you also check your throwing tool after each toss for burrs that can and will rip your skin while throwing while also impacting your throw. Again, just because you may start to " stick " some hits- keep your ego in check and remember safety.
I still consider myself a beginner at edged weapons ( Shuriken/Shaken Jutsu ) throwing but I am morally obligated to pass on at least my views on safety issues. Feel free to ask and/or give any more advice so I can also add to my knowledge.

Bill Shovan


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## stickarts (Mar 10, 2006)

Thanks all!!


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## bshovan (Mar 11, 2006)

Alot of good advice here on this thread. One thing in regards to throwing targets I'll pass on. Nothing beats a good ole piece of tree log, especially if treated with some substances to preserve the wood and assist in the edged weapon sticking. Also remember about the rebound effect- safety is always of first concern. Advanced edged weapon throwers, and you'll learn from years of experience, are seperated from others in the " penetration principles " and above all in the manner ( and I stress whether it's sportive and/or combative throwing ) and intent on one's type of training modes. It's a good idea to also get a target made of material that will leave less chance of rebounds- styrofoam/etc. with a solid back, especially when teaching and demonstrating for safety reasons. In my over 30 years of experience I have seen many people that think they are knife throwers demonstrate their ignorance with no basic knowledge of what the shuriken/shaken Jutsu arts are, especially with no concept of safety issues to mention the least. Good thread- let's keep it going.

Billy


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## stickarts (Mar 11, 2006)

I plan to get a big tree log, FAR away from everyone, and start practicing very short range. I will see how it goes and check back. Thanks guys. Looking forward to a new learning experience.


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## rutherford (Mar 12, 2006)

So, how many people who throw train both hands equally?

I'm of the opinion, and learned from my teacher, that especially at a basic level one hand will train the other and that by alternating after each round of throws (throw everything, pick it all up, and then you switch) you will gain proficiency faster and be more adaptable.


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## scottcatchot (Mar 12, 2006)

I have noticed in my stick fighting and etc. that I really have to fight the fact that I am left hand stupid. My fine motor skills suck with my left hand. It would be cool and advantagious to train both, but I am afraid at this point the safest place to be if I was throwing a knife left handed, would be in front of me.


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## stickarts (Mar 13, 2006)

We normally start by teaching techniques right handed, and as the student progresses, the techniques learned earlier must also be performed left handed. I can't say that we ever become equally proficient with both hands though.


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## bshovan (Mar 13, 2006)

Knife/edged objects throwing is done by many for various reasons. First off, when one gets a little bit of skill the " Ego Factor " comes into play and impressing others with this skill does serve an educational learning journey, if again, safety and growth develop. 
Before I continue I also want to say that the throwing arts, if taught ( and yes indeed they can be self-taught to a certain extent ) by those that know can lead students to a form of training that is like Zen Archery. 
Remember the difference between sport and combative throwing principles and training, a big difference just as Judo and Ju-Jitsu ( or Ju-Jutsu ) principles and training also differ.
Whether to throw one's knife, and/or any edged object in an actual situation is up to the individual. All I can say about this is that in true Bugei combative arts one trains to do what's needed at any given situation. The art of throwing is as old as the caveman when he threw rocks or any object to assist in self-preservation, whether to scare, stun or injure whatever target presented itself. 
One time while doing security work and after escorting a person out the door I went back inside and found his shoe or sneaker. I went back outside to give it to him and to make a long story short, threw it at him from a distance of app. 30-40 feet and hit him in the forhead, knocking him out and back into a puddle. So I guess I can say I have experience in shoe-fu/sneaker-fu.
Anyway, always remember that many very educated, experienced martial artists and people view these forums and have much knowledge to offer.

Billy


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## scottcatchot (Mar 13, 2006)

bshovan said:
			
		

> One time while doing security work and after escorting a person out the door I went back inside and found his shoe or sneaker. I went back outside to give it to him and to make a long story short, threw it at him from a distance of app. 30-40 feet and hit him in the forhead, knocking him out and back into a puddle. So I guess I can say I have experience in shoe-fu/sneaker-fu.
> Billy


 
Nice throw. It goes to show with practice anything can become a ballistics weapon.


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## Monadnock (Mar 16, 2006)

That's a great story.


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## stickarts (Mar 16, 2006)

Sounds like something out of Crocodile Dundee!! :0)


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## bushidomartialarts (Mar 16, 2006)

on the subject, anybody see any of the episodes of 'the osbournes' when ozzy's in back chucking throwing knives at a target?  they usually hit flat-side-to and then he'd shuffle up to retrieve them, shaking and cussing and hollering 'sharon!'.

not usually one for reality tv, but that show makes me laugh.  remember kids, if you do drugs, try not to do all of them all at once.


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## Airyu@hotmail.com (Mar 17, 2006)

Hello Guys,

I've been out of the loop with posting lately due to a home remodel and work issues, but I'm back!

On throwing:

Lot's of good advice here(all the posts) so use it wisely!

Targets
Tree rounds
2 X 4's which are then sheathed by a 2 x 12 (I use this alot)
Styrofoam for light weight indoor throwing
Cardboard for light weight indoor throwing

Distance
No rotation
1/2 rotation
full rotation
as well as further distances

Practice all grips and throws!
Overhand
Underhand
Cross draw
Side throw
Multiple blades to throw in one hand 
Alternate right and left hands etc.

Throw all types of projectiles
Blades
Screwdrivers
chopsticks
shurikens
rocks
billy clubs
etc!!!

Here is a link to a sample of me throwing at my school last year go to:
www.Bujinkandojo.net/PMultimedia/Basicprojectiles.wmv

Keep an eye out for a Projectile training manual coming out soon!!

Train Hard it is the Way!
Guro Steve L.

www.Bujinkandojo.net


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## bshovan (Mar 19, 2006)

Nice video and techniques. Privately e-mail me and we'll talk further.

Billy


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## still learning (Mar 19, 2006)

Hello, There are a few good books on "How to throw knives".

It is not easy to throw them too?  I have three different sizes, but prefer the the largest ones because of the weight and impact when it hits.

Like most of the books says just a couple of thousand times...will lead you into getting better.   and a few more couple of thousand times...a bit more.

sounds familiar? ...........Aloha


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## rutherford (Mar 19, 2006)

still learning said:
			
		

> Hello, There are a few good books on "How to throw knives".
> 
> It is not easy to throw them too? I have three different sizes, but prefer the the largest ones because of the weight and impact when it hits.


 
I hate it when the pages flutter open.  Just ruins the whole flight path and drops speed quickly.  

:roflmao: 

Nice one.


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## rutherford (Apr 13, 2006)

It is such a nice day here in VT.  I think after work I'm gonna find a nice target and scare the neighbors for a bit.  Gotta wonder what they think when I stand out back throwing knives for an hour.  

%-}


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## liuseongsystem (May 4, 2006)

well i am no expert but i have spent a fair amount of time training knife throwing in the past.

the point made about the wrist is very important. it has to remain relatively straight or the knife will go off to the side.

lay the knife across your palm at the base of the fingers at an angle.  you must hold the knife with only your thumb, the fingers splay and the thumb holds the knife against them.

when you throw the knife, make sure your hand drops down your centerline, and that your center is lined up with target.  this gives the basic lay for the throw

when you release the knife, a trick i use is to let go when the back of the hilt is just about to be pointing at the target, in the arc of the throw.  distance is usually 5 to 8 feet depending.  the knife makes one half rotation. takes a minute to get the hang of it.

be relaxed and dont throw it like a ball, it actually feels more like a shuto or chopping motion.

and someone mentioned the zen aspect and the lack of a need to hit. that is something i found to be very true... wait till you miss like 500 times in a row....lol

thanx.


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## liuseongsystem (May 4, 2006)

i should add that sometimes knife take a funny bounce especially if throw them at something hard.  it can and will richocet back at you.

so have a soft target and a backer.

or have quick feet.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Jul 11, 2006)

I throw a variety of different blades and spikes but the one I enjoy throwing the best is a good old K-Bar.  The heavy handle really drives the blade in and makes for a very enjoyable throwing tool.

Brian R. VanCise
www.insitnctiveresponsetraining.com


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## Bill Bednarick (Jul 12, 2006)

I personally like the 14" Cold Steel Pro-Flight throwers, for the money I think they are the best production thrower out right now.
And they are made in the States!


A good target can be made out of 2 by 4s on edge held together with threaded rod on the top and bottom. Then when you tear up a section you can swap the boards around to repair it. I have one made like this for travel.

Truthfully I throw at a 12" round by 6' high maple log set into the ground, and it can be a little hard on the knives if they aren't tough enough.
The good thing about it is you KNOW that the thrown blade has power when you sink it into hardwood.

Brian, I hope to make it to your throwing seminar, so I'll show you these knives then.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Jul 12, 2006)

Hey Bill,

I have never had a chance to work with the Cold Steel 14# pro flight throwers.  I would be interested to get a chance to throw them.  

Nothing beats a log!  They are just great to throw at weather knives, spikes or Tomahawks.

Brian R. VanCise
www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com


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## ginshun (Jul 12, 2006)

Have any of you guys ever tried throwing "spear style" as in non-rotating?

The knife needs to be weighted more to the back as opposed to the front, or at least it works better like that.  I can relatively consistantly stick a target at distances between 0 and 15 feet using this method.  No worrying about rotations for how far away you are. Using this method, you can also throw the knife very hard.

If anyone is interested there is a book called "Combat Knife Throwing" by Ralph Thorn that describes the method in detail.  Personally I love the book and the method.  There is also a video available on the web of him demonstrating.  Its really pretty amazing stuff. He can do it at a lot longer distances too.  I will see if I can find a link to download it.


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## Bill Bednarick (Jul 12, 2006)

I do a non-rotating throw only at very close ranges, and have no idea how Ralph Thorn does those long throws.
I've seen the videos on his site and they are pretty cool.


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## Bill Bednarick (Jul 12, 2006)

http://www.combatknifethrowing.com/ is Ralph Thorn's site for those that have not found it before.


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## bujuts (Jul 12, 2006)

I don't mean to rain on any parades, or cause any disurbance to this good thread.  But in terms of actually throwing knives in a (obviously, life threatening) scenario..

_Why discharge a perfectly good weapon?_

Off topic, yes, but I'm curious as to the reasoning you all steer towards on this one.

Thanks and good day.

Steven Brown
UKF


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## Bill Bednarick (Jul 13, 2006)

bujuts,

It's a perfectly valid question, and one that is raised time and time again.
Problem is most people that want to "throw knives for combat" stumble on the answer to it.

Here's my 2 cents on the question.

Most people that seriously train with weapons also train to improvise the weapons they favor for the times when they don't have that favorite weapon.

So if someone trains to knife throw and only has one blade, they may improvise a projectile from any handy object. It could be a screwdriver, coins, a book, coffee and cup, heavy ashtrays, etc.


The other idea I like is IF I have something in my hands that I no longer need to hold, (see the list above) maybe I should throw it in my attackers face to gain an advantage and to free my hands for use.

I know that these kinda skirt the discharge of useful weapons question, but I basically treat knife throwing as a drill to train for throwing other stuff.


Brian VanCise may have some insight on this too.


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## rutherford (Jul 13, 2006)

bujuts said:
			
		

> _Why discharge a perfectly good weapon?_


 
Because it often gives you the chance to escape?

Because you have more than one?

Fun.

The difference between the knife in the air and the knife in your hand is, of course, distance.  Throwing something is certainly safer than letting your attacker get within your reach.

As I said in the second comment in the thread, it's mostly just a distraction and shouldn't be your primary strategy.  You might get lucky, but that's about it.


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## ginshun (Jul 13, 2006)

I throw more as a hobby than anything else, in a real self defence situation, I think I would tend to hold onto the knife.  

I do like Ralph Thorn's style though, as you don't have to worry about distance or rotation with it, so theoretically it should be much more useful in combat that traditional circus style throwing.  I am no expert at it, and like I said I can't consistantly do it past about 15ft out.  But really, if I am going to throw a knife at somebody and plan to for sure hit them, it probably wouldn't be from farther away than that anyway.

The way I see it, its just another option that is better to have than to not have.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Jul 13, 2006)

Bill Bednarick said:
			
		

> bujuts,
> 
> It's a perfectly valid question, and one that is raised time and time again.
> Problem is most people that want to "throw knives for combat" stumble on the answer to it.
> ...


 
Absolutely being able to throw other object's is just as important. Bill's list above is great. Change, screwdriver, etc. Knowing how to throw tools is always going to be to your advantage. (even if you never need to)

Now, why would I throw something. Simply to get an advantage. Would I throw a knife or other tool if it was the only thing I had to defend myself? Probably not, unless I had no other means to cover the distance and had what I believed to be one shot only. The thing is that people like myself or Bill or other's of similar mindset rarely have just one tool on us. Generally we have multiple tools. So if I throw something, you can be sure that I will have something immediately in my hand and either engage or disengage quickly and in the most efficient manner possible. 

Hope that helps.

Brian R. VanCise
www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com


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## Bill Bednarick (Jul 13, 2006)

Brian, something along the lines of the old saying "1 to throw 2 to go"?

Dang I do believe I've been profiled...


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## arnisador (Jul 13, 2006)

rutherford said:
			
		

> Because you have more than one?



That's the plan.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Jul 13, 2006)

Bill Bednarick said:
			
		

> Brian, something along the lines of the old saying "1 to throw 2 to go"?
> 
> Dang I do believe I've been profiled...


 
Yes, that is about right and I am sure we both have been profiled more than once. :ultracool (fortunately for us we are the good guys)

Brian R. VanCise
www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com


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