# Standing Armbar Break!



## Brian R. VanCise (Apr 6, 2008)

This is a pretty wicked technique for breaking the arm.  Funny thing is I was teaching a variant of this just last week.  This is the first time I have observed someone do it in MMA though.

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What makes it wicked is that you cannot tap out of it.  Once the motion has been determined if you are not fast enought o stop it then the arm is broke. (end of story)


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## theletch1 (Apr 6, 2008)

Brian, that's exactly how we teach students to get their uke moving if they are facing an attacker that's throwing a planted punch. Step in, take control of the energy as it comes out.  Soon as you feel uke's energy stop you turn and arm bar their arm out by using your own body as leverage.  Uke will either move in the direction you want him to go so that you can affect a front wrist throw or he'll get his elbow broken.  Just depends on how much force you put on the elbow.  I've had my elbow hyper-extended with the technique a few times.  It's a great technique for smaller folks as it brings to bear all of the smaller persons body weight on the larger persons one joint.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Apr 6, 2008)

theletch1 said:


> Brian, that's exactly how we teach students to get their uke moving if they are facing an attacker that's throwing a planted punch. Step in, take control of the energy as it comes out. Soon as you feel uke's energy stop you turn and arm bar their arm out by using your own body as leverage. Uke will either move in the direction you want him to go so that you can affect a front wrist throw or he'll get his elbow broken. Just depends on how much force you put on the elbow. I've had my elbow hyper-extended with the technique a few times. It's a great technique for smaller folks as it brings to bear all of the smaller persons body weight on the larger persons one joint.


 
Hey Jeff,

Yes you are absolutely right on the motion and letting them feed themselves to the technique.  This was a cool video clip as that particular armbar is old school jiujitsu.  I to have felt that hyperextension as well.  This is a scary move even done slow! :erg:


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## Makalakumu (Apr 6, 2008)

My first comment is ick.  That's why I'm not going to do MMA.  I prefer to have both of my arms intact so I can play with my kids, make dinner, go fishing, do martial arts, etc...

My second is I'm glad that people are trying these things in the MMA ring.  I've practiced that technique in my dojang and you think you know how it would go for real, but you never actually know because you've never done it for real.  As difficult as it is to watch someone get their arm broke, I think you can see that some of these standing techniques really do have a chance of working.


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## terryl965 (Apr 6, 2008)

It is nice to see someone actually break someone arm with that tech. We have been doing a variation of that for years.


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## Andy Moynihan (Apr 6, 2008)

Um.....

Well, I know it's good that the "pressure test" of alternative moves is continuing and all.....

....and I know that for anyone stepping between those ropes there *IS* a certain assumption of a certain degree of risk, of which a broken limb is a part.

But it would've been nice to see the guy offer at least a token apology to the opponent assuming he knew the arm was broke rather than just doing the glory hound bit without so much as a second thought. Other dude has a living to make same as you.

Sorry to be the voice of dissent and all, but this one left a bad taste in my mouth.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Apr 6, 2008)

Andy Moynihan said:


> Um.....
> 
> Well, I know it's good that the "pressure test" of alternative moves is continuing and all.....
> 
> ...


 
Andy personally I do not like to see anyone hurt at any given time.  Still when one enters a ring sport their is a very good chance that you will be hurt and possibly extremely so.  We do not know if the other fighter talked with the fighter with the broken arm but I would assume so knowing most MMA people.


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## kidswarrior (Apr 6, 2008)

This is why I have my guys practice slowly. We don't need this in one of our classes to know it would work.  :uhohh:



Andy Moynihan said:


> Um.....
> 
> Well, I know it's good that the "pressure test" of alternative moves is continuing and all.....
> 
> ...





			
				Brian R. VanCise said:
			
		

> Andy personally I do not like to see anyone hurt at any given time. Still when one enters a ring sport their is a very good chance that you will be hurt and possibly extremely so. We do not know if the other fighter talked with the fighter with the broken arm but I would assume so knowing most MMA people.



Brian, I understand what you're saying, but I think I agree with Andy's point that any such words--if offered--were too little, too late, after the winner'd already gone through the self-promotion routine.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Apr 6, 2008)

kidswarrior said:


> This is why I have my guys practice slowly. We don't need this in one of our classes to know it would work. :uhohh:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Having only the video clip to go on I cannot disagree.

However I am with you one hundred percent in that you do not need to go fast to know that this technique works.  It is a brutal technique!


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## Drag'n (Apr 30, 2008)

That fighter in the vid is Aoki Shinya. I train with him at least 3 times a week.
He's an awesome grappler.
And I have total respect for his ability and dedication.
BUT, even in our sparring sessions he has a bit of a lack of regard for his opponents.
When I get a guy in a strong neck clinch, I'll  throw a knee or 2, but just lightly tap him, enough so he knows that he just got nailed.
Aoki just knees you full force in the face.
I've had my nose bloodied by a full force knee from him that left me dizzy. Didnt quite KO me.
But even with Knee pads on, I felt that was a bit harsh.
He throws full force front kicks in your face too where there is no padding.

But thats his mentality I guess. Hes not there to play around.
You either defend yourself or get hurt.
He competes with that same mentality. knowing his personality I don't think he saw anything wrong in what he did. He would see it as the other fighters own fault for putting himself in such a situation. Maybe thats why Aoki is a world champ.
But thats why I dont compete in pro MMA.
For me it just goes a bit too far. 
I know most fighters have a high level of regard for their opponents, but there are some that just like to hurt people and win.
Where do you draw the line between senseless violence and sport?
Its an individual choice for each of us.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Apr 30, 2008)

Drag'n said:


> That fighter in the vid is Aoki Shinya. I train with him at least 3 times a week.
> He's an awesome grappler.
> And I have total respect for his ability and dedication.
> BUT, even in our sparring sessions he has a bit of a lack of regard for his opponents.
> ...


 
Hey Drag'n thanks for posting your inside information.  It definately gives us all a better perspective.  Thanks.


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## punisher73 (Apr 30, 2008)

I've noticed that many of the more skilled MMA guys have done and do "Traditional" techniques.  It just goes to show you that most moves in TMA are combat applicable if trained as such and the time/effort to make them your own is gone through.


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## JWLuiza (Apr 30, 2008)

Sick.

Great vid though.  Poor American guy.


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## MattJ (Apr 30, 2008)

Good find, Brian. Rare to see that one in competition!


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## Brian R. VanCise (May 1, 2008)

MattJ said:


> Good find, Brian. Rare to see that one in competition!


 
Absolutely you just do not see this technique in competition as this is the first time I have observed it recorded.


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## Brian S (May 1, 2008)

Andy Moynihan said:


> Um.....
> 
> Well, I know it's good that the "pressure test" of alternative moves is continuing and all.....
> 
> ...


 

 Me too,however I'm not totally convinced the guy did it on purpose. If he intentionally broke the guys arm then he is sadistic and should be banned from competetion. What's next? Neck breaks? "Oh well, the guy knew the risks!" 
 From the look on his face I think he was bewildered and not sure exactly what he had done though.


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## Nolerama (May 1, 2008)

Brian S said:


> Me too,however I'm not totally convinced the guy did it on purpose. If he intentionally broke the guys arm then he is sadistic and should be banned from competetion. What's next? Neck breaks? "Oh well, the guy knew the risks!"
> From the look on his face I think he was bewildered and not sure exactly what he had done though.



It seems to me that Aoki was trying to break the clinch in the most dominant way possible: threatening a hyperextension and creating space to go in for more blows. If his opponent didn't react in time, that's going to be something he should work on in his next fight.

If Aoki did "do it on purpose" that doesn't make him sadistic, nor does it tell other MMA fighters that it's honorable or okay to break someone's neck. 

That is how the fight ended. "Oh they knew the risks" is not an excuse, it's a matter of fact; just like someone in training knows that there are risks in martial arts.

Drag'n said "Where do you draw the line between senseless violence and sport?"  I like that. Another thanks for the personal information. 

I want to pose this question to Drag'n:
*
Does Aoki's contact level give you a better insight into your own methods for defending yourself?*


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## Drag'n (May 2, 2008)

Nolerama said:


> I want to pose this question to Drag'n:
> *
> Does Aoki's contact level give you a better insight into your own methods for defending yourself?*



Absolutely.
He made me aware of my weaknesses in controlling a clinch and defending against knees.
I used to dominate him in stand up sparring, but once he found my weakness he started nailing me with knees almost every time we sparred.
I got dropped to the floor a number of times from one of his crushing knees to my SP.
Then after he nearly broke my nose I really started making more effort to  improve my defence in clinching range. 
I knew I either had to get bettter quick or I was going to get hurt everytime I faced him.

So now my clinching has improved a lot and hes not nailing me any more.

But Aoki and I are both competing fighters. He knows I can handle that level of contact.
I always really enjoy sparring with him cause he pushes my boundaries.
I dont agree with that kind of contact for the average guy in the dojo.

Regarding the arm break I dont think it was intentional. 
He was just using the joint manipulation techs he excells at to control his opponent. But the guy was just caught on the wrong foot and couldnt react in time.

Not something I would like to do nor have done to me though.


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