# I got pretty mad last night



## Manny (Jul 15, 2014)

Afther finishing the tkd session last night the second dan teen who was giving class in absence os sabonim yelled "numbers" (line up!!!) to finish class. I lined up yelling Hana (1) en asumed a very martial kibon chumbee sogi posicion.... the following black belts and the oyher gups line up in such a way without counting in korean (dool, set,net....) that I told the instructor and the other students to yell the number of the line up lane... and.... what the f......???? the teen instructor with a smile told me.... Mr. Manny tht's something of the past.. we don't count in korean anymore.... What??? yes Mr. manny that's old stuff thet we don't.... wait a minute mait a minte I said. This is a dojang a training hall and WE STUDY TKD an ancient MARTIAL ART!!!! How you can tell me we don't speakj in korean comends?? In aikido all the isntructions are given in japanese, in Shotokan the sensei speaks the tecnikes in japanese.... How you can tell me (instructor) tahta you make meditation using korean comendas (muñon chishap) and bow to the flaf (kukideo kyunget) and don't use korean numbers.

Every time I teach class we practice in korean the comends and it's silly how thre black belts said to me WHAT? WHAT DO YOU SAY? and I have to translate to Spanish.

What if.... you guys have the oportunity to go to kukiwon for a seminar and the grandmaster only give you comands in korean? Are you gona say WHAT? or I DON?T KNOW?? c'mon.

Afther the class was over I stay ouside the dojang talking with some guys and told them that in TKD class is a MUST to know tht korena terminology and use it and WE (black blets seniors and new ones) are the only guilty to give TKD a bad reputation for been so light, and I pointed at the luminous advrertisement outside the dojang it reads Hwarang Tae Kwond Do Korean Martial Art school!!!!

It really pisses me up when the young people are so lazy to take TKD seriusly, teen se line up without respect or martiality, taking the time to rehidrate to grab the cel phones to chat or see the facebook or social net, people not payining atention to class and even lying flat on the matt in the few moment we have to rehidarte and take a breath...

I am very and truly mad.

Manny


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## Dirty Dog (Jul 15, 2014)

A - Taekwondo is not ancient.
B - Using Korean is purely the choice of the instructor. I do, but it's certainly not going to stop someone from learning if they don't count in Korean. 


Take one of those deep breaths you mentioned.


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## Touch Of Death (Jul 15, 2014)

Manny said:


> Afther finishing the tkd session last night the second dan teen who was giving class in absence os sabonim yelled "numbers" (line up!!!) to finish class. I lined up yelling Hana (1) en asumed a very martial kibon chumbee sogi posicion.... the following black belts and the oyher gups line up in such a way without counting in korean (dool, set,net....) that I told the instructor and the other students to yell the number of the line up lane... and.... what the f......???? the teen instructor with a smile told me.... Mr. Manny tht's something of the past.. we don't count in korean anymore.... What??? yes Mr. manny that's old stuff thet we don't.... wait a minute mait a minte I said. This is a dojang a training hall and WE STUDY TKD an ancient MARTIAL ART!!!! How you can tell me we don't speakj in korean comends?? In aikido all the isntructions are given in japanese, in Shotokan the sensei speaks the tecnikes in japanese.... How you can tell me (instructor) tahta you make meditation using korean comendas (muñon chishap) and bow to the flaf (kukideo kyunget) and don't use korean numbers.
> 
> Every time I teach class we practice in korean the comends and it's silly how thre black belts said to me WHAT? WHAT DO YOU SAY? and I have to translate to Spanish.
> 
> ...


If it can't be taught in Spanish, it might be too tedious, I am all for it.


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## Thousand Kicks (Jul 15, 2014)

Manny,

I feel your pain, but unfortunately the answer is you're going to have to find a way to adapt. It's not your school so you have to respect the way your instructor wants to run his classes. Just because it's not the way you did it when you were coming up doesn't mean it's wrong...it's just different.

I really feel your pain on the last point. I too see kids come in and talk and mess around before class. My instructor has told them many times if they get there early to use the time to practice and warm up so they can get more out of class, but they never do. Unfortunately. you can't make people care as much as you care.

You've mentioned the idea of leaving your existing TKD school and searching for something else. Maybe higher powers agree with you and are telling you it's time to move on.


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## jks9199 (Jul 15, 2014)

I suspect that it wasn't so much about counting in Korean as the name in which he corrected you.  Seems like he was rather disrespectful towards his literal and TaeKwonDo  senior.  Perhaps a discussion between you two and your shared instructor could resolve this and help the young man in his future relationships.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk


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## Dirty Dog (Jul 15, 2014)

I'm sure Manny can expand, but in other recounted conversations, "Mr Manny" seems to be what he's called all the time.


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## skribs (Jul 15, 2014)

Granted, we're only hearing one side of the story, but "that's the past, we don't do that anymore" is the issue I saw.  With that said, I don't think that Taekwondo needs to be in Korean to be taught.  Do I do a better technique because I heard it in another language?  No.  Learning the Korean in addition to the art is a good thing, but not necessary.

I'll echo a point above, though.  Taekwondo isn't ancient.  It derives from Tang Soo Do, which has it's recent roots in Karate, and Takkyeon (?spelling?) which is an ancient Korean art.

Just curious, how much Korean do you think someone should know?  I know 1-29, the names of the forms, and a couple of techniques, but not every technique/stance/etc.  My master instructor and all of the primary instructors at the school are Korean (as in, they've spent most of their lives there).  I also know "hurry up" because we hear that a lot when putting on/taking off our sparring gear.


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## Gnarlie (Jul 15, 2014)

skribs said:


> I also know "hurry up" because we hear that a lot when putting on/taking off our sparring gear.



Palli Palli! 

I think for someone serious about Taekwondo (for that read a dan grade who intends to visit and train in Korea) then Korean is important, as is an insight into the culture of Korea.

You certainly can get access to more information when you show willingness to learn the language and culture of Korea. 

For someone who views Taekwondo as a leisure activity rather than a way of life, I guess it's up to the individual instructor. 

The official language of sport Taekwondo is allegedly English, but it seems not everyone involved speaks it. 

Personally, I'd seek out somewhere where Korean commands are taught. They would be difficult to learn at the last minute on the flight to Korea, and I think not teaching them speaks volumes about the instructors connection (or lack of) to the home culture of the art.


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## Dirty Dog (Jul 15, 2014)

skribs said:


> I'll echo a point above, though.  Taekwondo isn't ancient.  It derives from Tang Soo Do, which has it's recent roots in Karate, and Takkyeon (?spelling?) which is an ancient Korean art.



Well, no... Taekwondo is a modern art that has it's roots primarily in Shotokan Karate. Tang Soo Do was what GM Hwang Kee called the art taught in his Moo Duk Kwan before he changed the name to Soo Bahk Do. Tang Soo is nothing other than the Korean pronunciation of "Karate". Claiming that taekwondo is derived from TSD is wholly inaccurate. 
As for takkyon, there is no real evidence that this game survived the occupation of Korea and the suppression of its culture by the Japanese. Certainly there was nobody involved with the unification of the Kwans and the development of taekwondo with a takkyon background.
GM Hwang, for example, wasn't even born until 9-10 years after the occupation began.

I do agree (and have said many times) that speaking Korean is absolutely not necessary for teaching or learning taekwondo. Neither is knowing the history of the art. Both are nice, but not mandatory.


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## donald1 (Jul 15, 2014)

My instructions has would sometimes tell stories how his karate teacher spoke mostly Japanese and when he spoke English it was hard to understand him.  And would hit the students with all stick when they didn't listen,  don't do technique correctly or don't follow correct orders 

In my opinion maybe they just need someone to be more strict with them


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## jks9199 (Jul 15, 2014)

Dirty Dog said:


> I'm sure Manny can expand, but in other recounted conversations, "Mr Manny" seems to be what he's called all the time.



You can call someone sir or by title and be extremely disrespectful...  But even without that sort of thing, the manner of the correction here is what I caught.  It wasn't "hey, we haven't counted in Korean in a long time..." but almost "you geezer!  we don't do that anymore!"


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## Marnetmar (Jul 16, 2014)

Hasn't TKD only been around since like the '30s?


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## Metal (Jul 16, 2014)

In my opinion Korean terminology should be used and in my opinion every 1st Dan should know the basics.

Whenever I'm training outside of Germany it's never a problem to join any classes due to the Korean terminology. I mean, besides the commands and terminology they use their native language, but there was at least a common base.

And yeah, what about joining a Kukkiwon instructor's course? As a matter of respect you should know the basic commands, techniques and be able to count to ten.

I mean, you don't need to speak Korean when you drive a Hyundai or when you use a Samsung smartphone. You also don't need to speak Korean when you train Taekwondo. But when you go to a Korean Restaurant then you order Bibimbap and not the 'mixed rice bowl' and when you train Taekwondo you do Yeop Chagis and not sidekicks.


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## Thousand Kicks (Jul 16, 2014)

I will agree that knowing Korean terminolgy is nice, but it in no way means that you understand the Korean culture or understand TKD any better. Yeop chagi means sidekick. Sidekicks were not invented by Koreans. Sidekicks are used in many other martial arts. Yeop chagi is a Korean word(s) that is directly translated in English to sidekick. 

We are not talking about learning the language, we are only talking about learning words. So, I don't understand why it's a big deal. If I went to train in Germany, and couldn't speak German, it might help to know the Korean terms so there would be a way to understand what the instructor wanted me to do. However, If I knew German the result is the same or better. Because they're just words, not the meaning of life.

TKD is a part of Korean culture, it is the the whole culture itself. Saying we understand Korean culture because we study TKD and know some terminolgy is...in error.


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## Manny (Jul 16, 2014)

Metal said:


> In my opinion Korean terminology should be used and in my opinion every 1st Dan should know the basics.
> 
> Whenever I'm training outside of Germany it's never a problem to join any classes due to the Korean terminology. I mean, besides the commands and terminology they use their native language, but there was at least a common base.
> 
> ...



Ypu got my point. It's importante to know the korean terminoly and comands? ABSOLUTELY YES!!! It's part of the Korean Martial Art of Tae Kwon Do period. In every single karate dojo or judo dojo or aikido dojo I have listening the comands in japanese even the counting numbers, the names of the katas, names of the kicks,blocks,stances,hand techs, etc,etc why the we can't do the same? I will tell you.. because we are lazy to teach and to learn period.

I don't wana students learn Korean ( I will happy if they do but that's not necesary or mandatory) however I want the students to be polite and follow the rules and know the name of the techs and some kind of stuff. When I ask students to perform a taeguk I always ask the korean name of the taeguk followed by his number in spanish for example... Please Bob do taeguk palyang/forma numero ocho, chariot (atention) kyonget (bow), chilchat (start).

Yes I know that's not my dojang but as long as I know my sambonim has given me carte blanche to teach my class as I wanted but following comon sense and faollow certain rules, and I use kjorean terminology and certanly I would use it when I have my own dojo.

Manny


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## Manny (Jul 16, 2014)

A long time ago Grand Master An Dae Sup came to my city to give tkd seminars, this old tkd champion from Korea spoke english a little, korean and barely some words in Spanish he always gave the comands in korean and very rarely spoke a few words in English, so if grand master asked you a kick or a hand tech or stance (using korean comands) and you froze he will give you a slap in the forehead or.... worst.... pushups!!!

We need to encorage our students to study the comands and some words in korean, many years ago this was a must and was a part of the teste/examinations so we studied a lot this because we knew the importance of it.

Call me square! I don't mind.

Manny


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## skribs (Jul 16, 2014)

Manny, I'd rather spend my time learning the techniques by names I understand than also learning the names   (A bit tongue-in-cheek, but you get the point).

One thing that's interesting (and I'll have to ask them why they do this) but there are a few lower-grade black belts that will say "Cheryeot...Bow".  Why not say "Attention, bow" or "cheryeot, kunye"...I don't know.

Every once in a while we'll start using random languages for counting, i.e. one person will use Spanish, then Japanese, Chinese, etc.  I'm wondering how many pushups I'll get when I bust out the Klingon.


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## donald1 (Jul 16, 2014)

My instructor doesn't. Get on to people when they speak English instead of Japanese commands but it's mostly lower ranks and younger students

Once my instructor used the strict training for a week cause a lot of the upper belts (i was one that was also curious)  what it was like and he said it would be a good idea to do it for a week.  That was almost scary when you couldn't see him cause you never knew when he would come up to you and hit you but when he did you felt it and he expected you to know why and if you do didn't fix it next time was harder.  And don't turn around and look (i didn't make that mistake but the upper belt next to me did and the instructor went right for him) 

I don't know what is the best way to help students get motivated besides strictness and tell them to do pushups but I will probably know an effective method,
Best of luck


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## drop bear (Jul 16, 2014)

If you are going to learn a style learn all of it.

I did capo and had to learn songs. The culture is part of the martial arts.


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## Gwai Lo Dan (Jul 19, 2014)

Manny said:


> Every time I teach class we practice in korean the comends and it's silly how thre black belts said to me WHAT? WHAT DO YOU SAY? and I have to translate to Spanish.
> 
> What if.... you guys have the oportunity to go to kukiwon for a seminar and the grandmaster only give you comands in korean? Are you gona say WHAT? or I DON?T KNOW?? c'mon.



Another aspect is that with most schools using Korean terms, you can follow along much easier if you were to visit a foreign school.  For instance, I liked the drills in this video from France.  Manny, you would probably catch some things based on French and Spanish being latin languages, but then you also understand a bit more with the Korean.  For instance, at 3:55 when he has his leg up, points to his eyes and says "up chagi" you know he means that your opponent sees a front kick coming.


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## TrueJim (Jul 20, 2014)

I think part of the fun of eating Chinese food is learning to eat with chopsticks. Part of the fun of learning taekwondo is learning basic Korean vocabulary. Imagine if there were now bowing as you entered the dojang, no bowing to the flags at the end of class, no Hanja banners or Korean flags hanging from the walls...yah it would still be taekwondo, but you'd have taken a lot of the fun out of it. 

I wouldn't get *mad* if my school stopped using Korean, but I'd definitely get _annoyed_ if the reason they cited was that it was "old fashioned." That's like saying chopsticks are "old fashioned." They're not old fashioned, you're just being lazy. And if you want to be lazy, that's fine, that's your choice, but don't cover your laziness by pretending it has anything to do with _modernity_. At least be honest enough to admit, "We're lazy and we don't want to do that because it's hard."  

I wouldn't be irritated by the lack of Korean, I'd be irritated by the lame excuse given.


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## andyjeffries (Jul 21, 2014)

skribs said:


> One thing that's interesting (and I'll have to ask them why they do this) but there are a few lower-grade black belts that will say "Cheryeot...Bow".  Why not say "Attention, bow" or "cheryeot, kunye"...I don't know.



Out of interest, are you American?

I hear Americans pronounce "bow" as "kunye", but that's wrong.  

It should be "kyuhng-yeh" (technically kyeong-rye, but the r is almost silent and "eo" is pronounced "uh" rather than "ee-oh" which the spelling often makes people do).

Here's an audio clip of how to pronounce it properly - ?? pronunciation: How to pronounce ?? in Korean


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## skribs (Jul 21, 2014)

I am American.  All of the primary instructors at my school are Korean (as in, spent more than half their lives there, were born there), including the master instructor, his wife, and the other primary instructor.  He pronounces stuff correctly, obviously, but sometimes I don't quite get the exact pronunciation because he's talking in a pace and cadence that emphasizes energy over enunciation (pretty much anyone directing physical activity does this, or else there's no motivation for the class).  



> Part of the fun of learning taekwondo is learning basic Korean  vocabulary. Imagine if there were now bowing as you entered the dojang,  no bowing to the flags at the end of class, no Hanja banners or Korean  flags hanging from the walls...yah it would still be taekwondo, but  you'd have taken a lot of the fun out of it.



What's fun is subjective.  If you took out sparring I'd be disappointed, but more than a few students in my school would find it more fun.


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## Jaeimseu (Jul 21, 2014)

I personally see nothing wrong with conducting classes entirely in English or Spanish or whatever. The majority of students will never "need" to know the Korean terminology.

That said, I do wish people who decide to use Korean commands or terms would take the time to learn to at least sort of pronounce the words correctly. In the USA, too many people can't even pronounce the name of the art correctly.

Also, I dislike when Korean commands are given along with the translation ("Ready position joonbi"). Outside of a beginner class, I find this practice kind of silly. If the students can't respond to the commands after a reasonable number of classes, why bother with them at all?


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## Dirty Dog (Jul 21, 2014)

Jaeimseu said:


> I personally see nothing wrong with conducting classes entirely in English or Spanish or whatever. The majority of students will never "need" to know the Korean terminology.
> 
> That said, I do wish people who decide to use Korean commands or terms would take the time to learn to at least sort of pronounce the words correctly. In the USA, too many people can't even pronounce the name of the art correctly.
> 
> Also, I dislike when Korean commands are given along with the translation ("Ready position joonbi"). Outside of a beginner class, I find this practice kind of silly. If the students can't respond to the commands after a reasonable number of classes, why bother with them at all?



Have to agree with this. We do give parallel commands in the beginner class, sometimes. But even then, new students can hear the term and figure out what it means by a "monkey see monkey do" system. That's how they learned English, after all. Other than the beginner class, we use one language at a time.


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## donald1 (Jul 22, 2014)

In my karate class i prefer to say the commands whether it's starting class,  calling out the techniques,  or ending class.  I think it's important if you ever go to a different place that uses the traditional language.  There are situations where it may not be important but to me it is.


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## andyjeffries (Jul 22, 2014)

Jaeimseu said:


> I personally see nothing wrong with conducting classes entirely in English or Spanish or whatever. The majority of students will never "need" to know the Korean terminology.



I 100% agree.



Jaeimseu said:


> That said, I do wish people who decide to use Korean commands or terms would take the time to learn to at least sort of pronounce the words correctly. In the USA, too many people can't even pronounce the name of the art correctly.



Amen brother!! You've hit on my pet peeve.  Far too many people in the UK (including seniors in our official WTF MNA) pronounce it as "Thai-kwondo".  Aaaarrrrggghhhhh!!!  Bugs the HELL out of me!

If people mispronounce other word it bugs me, but I can live with it.  The name of our art though, that they have dedicated decades to...  C'mon, take the effort to learn how to say it correctly.


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## andyjeffries (Jul 22, 2014)

From http://www.talktomeinkorean.com/shows/how-to-pronounce-1/


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## Jaeimseu (Jul 22, 2014)

andyjeffries said:


> I 100% agree.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah, in general, westerners' pronunciation of Korean is pretty terrible, but you'd hope people could get closer than "tie".


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## skribs (Jul 22, 2014)

> In my karate class i prefer to say the commands whether it's  starting class,  calling out the techniques,  or ending class.  I think  it's important if you ever go to a different place that uses the  traditional language.  There are situations where it may not be  important but to me it is.​



What if you go to a Karate class that uses the local language?

I also think its unfair to assume I shouldn't have an accent when using another language.


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## andyjeffries (Jul 22, 2014)

skribs said:


> I also think its unfair to assume I shouldn't have an accent when using another language.



I'm sure my British accent comes through when I pronounce a lot of Korean, but (uncharacteristically for my countrymen) I make my best effort to improve.  One of the things I think it's most important to pronounce correctly is the name of the art.

This isn't talking about using another language, this is talking about pronounce the proper noun of a global martial art and sport.


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## Manny (Jul 22, 2014)

Gwai Lo Dan said:


> Another aspect is that with most schools using Korean terms, you can follow along much easier if you were to visit a foreign school.  For instance, I liked the drills in this video from France.  Manny, you would probably catch some things based on French and Spanish being latin languages, but then you also understand a bit more with the Korean.  For instance, at 3:55 when he has his leg up, points to his eyes and says "up chagi" you know he means that your opponent sees a front kick coming.




The names of the kicks I heard was Ti-Chagui, Mom Dolyo Chagui, Ap Chagui.

Manny


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## Gwai Lo Dan (Jul 23, 2014)

Manny said:


> The names of the kicks I heard was Ti-Chagui, Mom Dolyo Chagui, Ap Chagui.
> 
> Manny


Ahhh.....I heard mon dolyo, with mon being the French word for my.  Thanks Manny.


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## WaterGal (Jul 25, 2014)

andyjeffries said:


> Amen brother!! You've hit on my pet peeve.  Far too many people in the UK (including seniors in our official WTF MNA) pronounce it as "Thai-kwondo".  Aaaarrrrggghhhhh!!!  Bugs the HELL out of me!
> 
> If people mispronounce other word it bugs me, but I can live with it.  The name of our art though, that they have dedicated decades to...  C'mon, take the effort to learn how to say it correctly.



I think, honestly, we're at the point where that's just the English pronunciation of the word. It's just like how English speakers pronounce karate "kuh rah tee".  It's not really right, but it's not worth getting annoyed about either.  (Personally, I blame whoever decided that "&#12624;" should be transliterated as "ae".)


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## Earl Weiss (Jul 26, 2014)

drop bear said:


> If you are going to learn a style learn all of it.
> 
> I did capo and had to learn songs. The culture is part of the martial arts.



Some may consider the language part of the style. Some may not. 

When I had Nam Tae Hi guest instruct he still used some japanese names for certain techniques. 

After publishing his first text in Korean General Choi published texts in English. (Later also Spanish and Russian and perhaps other languages as well.)  Except for basic commands like Attention, Ready, bow and return, when he taught in the USA and most countries outside Korea he taught in English using English names for the techniques. 

The goal was to spread TKD worldwide. The fastest way to do this was to use the local language.   Many early instructors had to use Korean names since they had insufficient grasp of the native language to convert the names of techniques and some terms dont readily convert


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## oftheherd1 (Jul 26, 2014)

WaterGal said:


> I think, honestly, we're at the point where that's just the English pronunciation of the word. It's just like how English speakers pronounce karate "kuh rah tee".  It's not really right, but it's not worth getting annoyed about either.  (Personally, I blame whoever decided that "&#12624;" should be transliterated as "ae".)



I seem to remember reading back in the 70s that there were something like 12 different systems for transliterating Korean into English.  Most never gained popularity.

Of course, when most American English speakers see something like 'ae,' they are likely going to pronounce both letters distinctly, not as the Koreans would.


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## tshadowchaser (Jul 27, 2014)

I think some of the native language should be used at least for most commands and techniques in the school.  This keeps some connection to the country of origin. It also allows someone from your school to visit a different school or system from the same country and have some idea what is going on. 
That being said I teach in English because I was taught that way and I let the instructors under my guidance use a different language if they wish, seeing as they deal with others in the Filipino community more that i do.  
We do have nights where we will use French, Spanish, German, Chinese, Japanese, etc.  to count or call to attention etc. this gives the student a chance to learn some basics of another language and broadens their knowledge base . we do these commands at the appropriate time so they know what  we want.

( I know this is a TKD thread but I felt what I do may apply to the thread)


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## skribs (Jul 28, 2014)

I think the important thing for me is the techniques, not the language.  I don't think it's wrong to use the origin language or the native language.  I do think it's wrong to say the origin language is outdated or to say it's not real unless you use the origin language.


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## Gnarlie (Jul 28, 2014)

I think the language is a great link to Korean cultural ideas outside of Taekwondo. 

There are links between the core philosophical principles of Hangul and those of Taekwondo.

I think it's a shame if practitioners of Taekwondo are denied the opportunity to investigate that link by not being exposed to Korean and Hangul.

I think using Korean highlights that Taekwondo values are also part of wider Korean culture. Understanding wider Korean culture can help us to understand where Taekwondo came from, why it is the way it is, and what its future might look like.


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## Dirty Dog (Jul 28, 2014)

Gnarlie said:


> There are links between the core philosophical principles of Hangul and those of Taekwondo.



OK... you've lost me. How does an alphabet have a philosophy?


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## Gnarlie (Jul 29, 2014)

Dirty Dog said:


> OK... you've lost me. How does an alphabet have a philosophy?


Its vowel characters are built around Haneul, Tang, and Saram, Heaven, Earth, and Man, the concepts that the practice of Taekwondo aims to unify. King Sejong intended it to be a language for all, to unify within his Kingdom. The same principle lies behind Taekwondo becoming a world culture, an inclusive sport for all.

I can't post the link right now but there's a nice YouTube video called 'Hangul: Language of Compassion' that covers some of this.


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## oftheherd1 (Jul 29, 2014)

Gnarlie said:


> Its vowel characters are built around Haneul, Tang, and Saram, Heaven, Earth, and Man, the concepts that the practice of Taekwondo aims to unify. King Sejong intended it to be a language for all, to unify within his Kingdom. The same principle lies behind Taekwondo becoming a world culture, an inclusive sport for all.
> 
> I can't post the link right now but there's a nice YouTube video called *'Hangul: Language of Compassion' that covers some of this.*



When I was studying Korean in Korea, I was told that there was a story that King SeJong derived the shape of Hangul from looking at the lattice work in doors and windows.  Probably makes more sense than that they were made after studying the shape of the mouth in making the sound.  But everyone is entitled to believe as they want.


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## Gnarlie (Jul 29, 2014)

oftheherd1 said:


> When I was studying Korean in Korea, I was told that there was a story that King SeJong derived the shape of Hangul from looking at the lattice work in doors and windows.  Probably makes more sense than that they were made after studying the shape of the mouth in making the sound.  But everyone is entitled to believe as they want.


In 1940 the following document was made public, and it corroborates the phonetic and philosophical rationale. 

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunmin_Jeongeum_Haerye


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## Jaeimseu (Aug 2, 2014)

WaterGal said:


> I think, honestly, we're at the point where that's just the English pronunciation of the word. It's just like how English speakers pronounce karate "kuh rah tee".  It's not really right, but it's not worth getting annoyed about either.  (Personally, I blame whoever decided that "&#12624;" should be transliterated as "ae".)


I still think they should be able to get it right. All it takes is the instructor to not be lazy. Do minimal research and learn how to say it correctly. Instead, people learn the wrong way and then "correct" people who do say it correctly.


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