# Science: Athletes' Brains Reveal Concussion Damage



## Bob Hubbard (Jan 27, 2009)

*Science: Athletes' Brains Reveal Concussion Damage on Tuesday January 27, @04:14PM  							 				 						*

*	 		Posted 		by  	 	 		 			kdawson 		 	 	  	 	 	on Tuesday January 27, @04:14PM* 
*from the chronic-traumatic-encephalopathy dept.* 
 
jamie found a story on research about what concussions do to athletes, with the insights coming mostly from the study of the donated brains of dead athletes. The NFL has the biggest profile in the piece, but other sports make an appearance too. Turns out that repeated concussions can result in depression, insomnia, and the beginnings of something that looks a lot like Alzheimer's. "The idea that you can whack your head hundreds of times in your life and knock yourself out and get up and be fine is gone," said [retired wrestler] Nowinski. "We know we can't do that anymore. This causes long-term damage."
http://slashdot.org/#


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## exile (Jan 27, 2009)

Ain' it just bloody typical, though, that the NFL apparatchiks&#8212;whose long-term luxury lifestyles are funded by the kind of human cannon fodder whose brains are now being pickled, sliced up and scanned&#8212;offer as their first reaction the same kind of crap that the tobacco industry moguls came up with when first confronted by harsh, unequivocal evidence that toxins in cigarette smoke do serious multi-organ damage and trigger cancerous cell mutations: _It's controversial, more study is needed, lots of people don't die from it_, etc. We can look forward to another decade or two of industry-funded junk science, just as with the cigarette megacorporations, before they finally admit (as the cigarette people have essentially done), yes, you were right all along...

By no means should you worry about your 'frungible assets'&#8212;hell, there's lots more where they came from, eh?


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## grydth (Jan 27, 2009)

I believe there is a group of former athletes who have seen their peers stricken by dementia, depression and suicidal urges in very disproportionate numbers. They have either cited or commissioned this work.

I would love to see the "science" that contends that severe head blows do not cause degenerative brain damage and that said damage does not produce a variety of physical and mental maladies. But many years in court taught me that one can produce an *expert *to say almost anything - if you have no ethics and if the price is right. There are more questionable experts loose in the legal system that silly sokes infesting the MA world.... and that's saying something.

The Steelers - Ravens rivalry has produced some fantastic hits, as have some hockey contests. I love the highlight reels....but this is a sobering reminder of the price tag on my entertainment. I tell myself I don't really want to see anyone killed, just flattened..... and these deaths, very obligingly, occur years later outside the public view.

Sorry, I don't want the fights taken out of hockey, and I don't want football players looking like the Michelin Man, either. PC just isn't me. Nobody makes us go to the games and nobody makes the players play, either. But, you know, we could mandate some better protection, better lifetime care and rehabilitation ... and we could be honest with ourselves, too.


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## exile (Jan 27, 2009)

grydth said:


> But many years in court taught me that one can produce an *expert *to say almost anything - if you have no ethics and if the price is right. There are more questionable experts loose in the legal system that silly sokes infesting the MA world.... and that's saying something.



You _said_ it, G. 



grydth said:


> But, you know, we could mandate some better protection, better lifetime care and rehabilitation ... and *we could be honest with ourselves, too.*



That's the major thing, the part I bolded. If this is what is happening to these players, then we won't get anywhere toward minimizing the chance of them dying some extremely ugly deaths&#8212;deaths we probably wouldn't really wish on our worst enemy&#8212;until we accept the facts of the matter and try think through how we can maintain the physicality of these games (which is what people _do_ want) without leaving these chaps broken-down wrecks dying in their mid-40s as a result of nightmarish syndromes and conditions, which I'd like to think most people _don't_ want for them...


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## tellner (Jan 27, 2009)

That's just the tip of the iceberg. If Chemistry lab had half the injury and fatality rate of football there would be no science classes. And all for a rather stupid form of entertainment.


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## Andy Moynihan (Jan 27, 2009)

Bob Hubbard said:


> *Science: Athletes' Brains Reveal Concussion Damage on Tuesday January 27, @04:14PM                                                                       *
> 
> *             Posted         by                                kdawson                                  on Tuesday January 27, @04:14PM*
> *from the chronic-traumatic-encephalopathy dept.*
> ...


 

We needed research to tell us THIS????


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## Flying Crane (Jan 27, 2009)

Bob Hubbard said:


> Turns out that repeated concussions can result in depression, insomnia, and the beginnings of something that looks a lot like Alzheimer's.


 
Wow, stop the presses!  Now THIS is NEWS!!!


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## AMP-RYU (Jan 27, 2009)

Andy Moynihan said:


> We needed research to tell us THIS????


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## Empty Hands (Jan 27, 2009)

Andy Moynihan said:


> We needed research to tell us THIS????



Yes actually, considering that the NFL officials were already prevaricating.


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## Andy Moynihan (Jan 27, 2009)

My tax dollars at work. I feel so safe.


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## Bob Hubbard (Jan 27, 2009)

Keep in mind that some of this research is being done due to the Chris Benoit case, as well as several other athletes who went off the deep end.  In all cases, the employers (WWE/NFL/etc) are claiming deniability because to do otherwise will open them to huge liability.


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## exile (Jan 27, 2009)

Bob Hubbard said:


> Keep in mind that some of this research is being done due to the Chris Benoit case, as well as several other athletes who went off the deep end.  In all cases, the employers (WWE/NFL/etc) are claiming deniability because to do otherwise will open them to huge liability.



But is it _plausible_ deniability?

As the car mechanic/dentist/whoever says, you can pay me now or you can pay me later. The tobacco industry was hit with massive class-action lawsuits in the 1990s that, among other things, forced into the open information about their own internal pathology studies from the 1950s on, showing that outfits like R.J. Reynolds _knew_ the hypertoxic effects of the chemicals created in the burning of cigarettes. That not only resulted in huge settlements, but also shredded their credibility with _everyone_. These days, the surest way to establish the truth of some health claim about tobacco is for the industry to dispute that claim. This has had a significant effect on the success of anti-second-hand smoke legislation, on tobacco advertising restrictions, and so on.

If the big sports outfits were smart, they'd see the handwriting on the wall and try to establish some kind of good-faith meeting halfway with the players and the health advocacy groups that are starting to form around these issues.  I know that the name of the game is supposed to be cover-your-***, but there comes a point when you have to look at the history of ***-covering in other sectors and see that, when damaging medical information starts coming out and gets circulated, you're not doing yourself any favor protesting that we need another half-century of careful post-mortems on 40-year-old ex-NFL defensive linemen.


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## Bob Hubbard (Jan 27, 2009)

Thye'll fight it, fund some crap research, maybe even petition Congress to outlaw disagreeing with them.  Congress however seemed very interested in things after Benoit's murder/suicide, and put the pro wrestling world under scrutiny. They (pro wrestling) will be more than happy to point at football and hockey to deflect attention from themselves. 

In the mean time, more guys get messed up, and die too soon.


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## Makalakumu (Jan 27, 2009)

Lets bring this closer to home.  Martial arts.  Lots of people are taking blows to the head and are being generally beaten on, especially in MMA contests.  We have no idea how these people will fare twenty years from now.  Imagine if Randy Couture becomes the next Chris Benoit.  You can't get knocked out without getting some form of brain damage.  The physiology of getting knocked out requires brain damage.  So, are people who are getting choked and punched out on a regular basis putting themselves at the same risk?  

I would say YES.


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## jks9199 (Jan 27, 2009)

I don't think there's any doubt.  Consider, simply, the stereotypical punch drunk former fighter...  The stereotype came from somewhere!


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## Empty Hands (Jan 28, 2009)

maunakumu said:


> Lets bring this closer to home.  Martial arts.  Lots of people are taking blows to the head and are being generally beaten on, especially in MMA contests.  We have no idea how these people will fare twenty years from now.  Imagine if Randy Couture becomes the next Chris Benoit.  You can't get knocked out without getting some form of brain damage.  The physiology of getting knocked out requires brain damage.  So, are people who are getting choked and punched out on a regular basis putting themselves at the same risk?
> 
> I would say YES.



No doubt true to an extent.  However, it seems to be less of a problem than boxing.  Paradoxically, having those pillows on your hands means a lot more hits and damage to the head cumulatively before fights get stopped.  One or two good hits to the noggin in an MMA match and the match is over.  In boxing, you can get pounded there all night long.  Also, just having many other options for striking and grappling means a lesser focus on hitting to the head than boxing.

Both boxing and MMA fare better than football though.  Mohammed Ali may have been and sounded like a mess, but at least he could get dressed in the morning in less than 2 hours.  Plus he didn't sound like that at 40.


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## Makalakumu (Jan 28, 2009)

I've heard rumors that professional football players really go down hill in terms of health after they retire.  Does anyone have anymore information on that?

I also agree that MMA is probably better on the brain then boxing.  It's still not good, but its better.  One thing that I've often wondered though, is about the incidence of overall injury in MMA.  I wonder about the long term effects on the body over all.  Anyway, that's a different thread.


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## Empty Hands (Jan 28, 2009)

maunakumu said:


> I've heard rumors that professional football players really go down hill in terms of health after they retire.  Does anyone have anymore information on that?



Link.  "Nearly two-thirds suffer an injury serious  enough to require surgery or sideline them eight games or more. In addition, six of every 10 players suffer a concussion; more than a  quarter will suffer more than one, and the odds are that any player who  suffers a concussion will later experience headaches and memory problems.  Nearly half of all players retire from football because of an injury"


The stories from players after retirement aren't as well documented, but many of the individual anecdotes are horrifying.  Several are included in the article.  Part of the problem is that due to their own driven natures as well as the connivance of coaches and team doctors, players continue to play injured.  That exacerbates the problem far more than normal.


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## Bob Hubbard (Jan 30, 2009)

From PWI



> *CHRIS NOWINSKI DISCUSSES HIS RESEARCH INTO BRAIN TRAUMA ON ATHLETES, WWE DISTANCING THEMSELVES FROM HIM, THE LAST YEAR OF CHRIS BENOIT'S LIFE AND MORE*
> *by Mike Johnson @ 2009-01-30 08:39:33*
> 
> Alex Marvez's latest syndicated column features a discussion with the Sports  Legacy Institute's Chris Nowinski on his work in concussion study and research.   You can read the piece by clicking here.


 



> In discussing SLI's research on the brain of Chris Benoit, Nowinski  commented, "Chris had the most progressed case of CTE (chronic traumatic  encephalopathy, a degenerative brain disease caused by head trauma) that we  found, more than the NFL players.  I have no doubt that if he didn't have  brain damage he wouldn't be a murderer.  He told me personally he had more  concussions than he could count a year or two before the tragedy. In talking to  guys who hung out with him the last three to six months of his life, they all  have stories about him just being very strange and emotional. Someone told me  Chris spent an hour in a hotel hallway in Italy crying about something that was  completely pointless. He was unraveling. We knew if CTE cases like (former NFL  player) Andre Waters weren't killing themselves, there's always the possibility  they'll get violent toward someone else as well."






> Nowinski noted that once he began his research into the Benoit situation, WWE  failed to sign him to a new contract, commenting, "It was all fear of lawsuits.  If we say Benoit had brain damage from being a pro wrestler, that makes WWE  liable to an on-the-job-injury (claim). I think that's the only reason they want  no part to this. It's just dollars."





> WWE spokesperson Robert Zimmerman commented the company parted ways with  Nowinski on amicable terms as, "it became clear that he was becoming more  focused on his research, where his true interests were/are."


  For more information on the SLI and their work, visit www.sportslegacy.org.


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## Marginal (Jan 30, 2009)

Not surprising with Benoit. That flying headbutt never looked like something you could do day in and day out without building up a lot of damage.


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