# tai chi joint locks



## lonecoyote (Jul 27, 2004)

When I hear or read about the martial aspect of Tai Chi it seems mostly about push hands or redirecting energy, but I recently saw a video of a Wu style guy doing tai chi joint locks that were just brutal. When do practitioners get informed about the chin na of Taijiquan? Does anyone emphasize the locking in their training? I've even read that some techniques hidden in the forms are for separating the muscle from the bone. Is this true?


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## Randy Strausbaugh (Jul 27, 2004)

Check out Yang Jwing Ming's book, Taiji Chin Na, for full coverage of the topic.  As to when it's taught, it depends on the instructor's preference (and his/her knowledge).  But it is in there.


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## 7starmantis (Jul 27, 2004)

Very true, as far as martial application to tai chi I would think it would be there all the time, but some schools dont get into the applications as much. There are alot of chin na techniques in tai chi however.

7sm


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## grappling_mandala (Jul 29, 2004)

7*-

My main training partner and I incorporate all kinds of locks into our push hands practice, but we work into them gradually. 

-We start with fixed footwork and practice the basic redirections and work uprooting one another.

We practice uprooting one another without using musclar force (that is force that is discconnected from the movement of the whole, so no jerking, pushing, etc... ONLY GUIDING your partner) This way as soon as someone uses muscle you can feel it for sure!

-After we both have felt GOOD uproots we move on to switching arms and taking steps. 

-After that we move into a more free sparring stage where the basic redirections start combing with joint locks including wrist, elbow and shoulder. At this point if either of us experiences pain we tap immediatly on our partner. Things are still done slow and flowing.

Have you seen that Dong style tai chi push hands video that's out there? That guy is smooth. I'll see if I can find the link. Or search Dong style push hands video or something.

Anyways, we've successfully incorporated chi na into pushhands for a couple years now, its's not very hard. I can shoot video of it if you want. 

Dave


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## grappling_mandala (Jul 29, 2004)

I'm thinking of shooting video from a vertical angle to capture something new. Pretty sure we can find something interesting out of the experiment. heheh 

Dave


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## Katsu Jin Ken (Jul 30, 2004)

anyone know somewhere i can download some push hands video? Ive never seen it done.  How is it different from chi sao?


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## Empty Fist (Aug 1, 2004)

Check this link out for this differences between push hands and sticky hands:

http://www.patiencetaichi.com/tai_chi_push_hands_and_wing_chun.htm


Check this link out for a push hands video clip
http://www.patiencetaichi.com/nature_of_push_hands_competition.htm#America

Hope this helps.


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## grappling_mandala (Aug 1, 2004)

I really enjoy this masters push hands. Check the push hands videos near the bottom. Some nice chin na in these. Enjoy.

http://www.chipellis.com/videos/videos.htm#Fast

Dave


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## Guro Harold (Aug 4, 2004)

Randy Strausbaugh said:
			
		

> Check out Yang Jwing Ming's book, Taiji Chin Na, for full coverage of the topic.  As to when it's taught, it depends on the instructor's preference (and his/her knowledge).  But it is in there.


Great reference book!!!


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## Guro Harold (Aug 4, 2004)

7starmantis said:
			
		

> Very true, as far as martial application to tai chi I would think it would be there all the time, but some schools dont get into the applications as much. There are alot of chin na techniques in tai chi however.
> 
> 7sm


I agree! There are joint and finger locks in Tai Chi that can be overlooked if there is not a concentration on martial applications.


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## pete (Aug 4, 2004)

i've learned that each of the movements in the tai chi form have several applications that can be used depending on the attack and relative position of your attacker.  some are chin na, some not chin na.  the tai chi solo form teaches you how to move and maintain center in a more generic way, so once those principles are internalized, one can use the movements as self defense in various situations.  that is one reason why we practice to be subtle with regard to the external demonstration of the form... so as not to associate a specific movement strictly with a singular intent.

the 2-person chin na set (or, da lu) is practice more overtly, with specific response to specific conditions.  same tai chi principles, but different emphasis on demonstrating applications.  the internal mechanics are truly manifested in the external response.  

pete


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