# Tracy Kenpo



## thetruth (Jun 25, 2007)

My old Kenpo instructor came via the Tracy system (though he is now with Jeff Speakman) so I am in no way bagging those that are a product of the Tracy system.  I saw a video of the Tracy's doing some techniques that my instructor had and quite frankly I wouldn't have received my orange belt doing techniques the way they were.  My instructor suggeseted that it was their students that really made the system as they saw the potential in Kenpo and delved further into the art and trained with others.  I don't know if this is true but I know what I saw on the video and it was woeful.  How did they gain such a following?   Was it the direct students of theirs that made the art?



Cheers
Sam:asian:


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## Flying Crane (Jun 25, 2007)

what videos did you see?


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## Jim Hanna (Jun 25, 2007)

I remember thinking the same thing myself one time after viewing some video of an internationally known American Kenpo master. I was really disappointed in what I saw on video.

That changed when I got a chance to see him move in person and to uke up for him.

I was told, at the time, to not judge a person's kenpo by evaluating "video kenpo". 

The purpose of the Tracy videos are to preserve the system. They are done at a certain pace so that the viewer can see what is happening, but only on a basic level. There is so much more going on within the techniques than what is capable of being shown on video.

If you ever get a chance to uke up for some of the old timers like Dave Simmons, you will feel what its really about.

Jim


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## bushidomartialarts (Jun 25, 2007)

Jim Hanna said:


> They are done at a certain pace so that the viewer can see what is happening, but only on a basic level.



This is part one of two on why that video received that sort of a reception.  I had the same disappointment with my teacher's videos. I even had some trouble at my recent rank test in similar vein:  I had to redo several techs because I was doing them at 'teaching speed' rather than 'combat speed'.

Part two might be the age old enmity between Parker and the Tracy bros.  I don't know the deal there, but I'd bet a beer one of 'em slept with another's wife.  There's just nothing else I can imagine that would keep people spewing this long after the events.  

Grain of salt, my friend.  Parker vs. Tracy is like Spanish vs. Portugese.  Same language spoken by very similar cultures.  The difference is emphasis, nothing more.


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## hongkongfooey (Jun 29, 2007)

I think that if someone is going to make a video that will showcase their talents, regardless of system or style, please for the love of God do it right. Re shoot 1000 times if you have to. But, don't put out a video that looks like it was made by a 4th grade AV club.


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## thetruth (Jun 29, 2007)

hongkongfooey said:


> I think that if someone is going to make a video that will showcase their talents, regardless of system or style, please for the love of God do it right. Re shoot 1000 times if you have to. But, don't put out a video that looks like it was made by a 4th grade AV club.



It wasn't the video that was of poor quality but the kenpo.  In my opinion one can look sharp and powerful during a technique even when doing it slowly for demonstration purposes.  These guys just didn't.

Cheers
Sammy:asian:


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## hongkongfooey (Jun 29, 2007)

thetruth said:


> It wasn't the video that was of poor quality but the kenpo. In my opinion one can look sharp and powerful during a technique even when doing it slowly for demonstration purposes. These guys just didn't.
> 
> Cheers
> Sammy:asian:


 
That is what I was getting at. Why put out a sloppy production when it can be done over if there is a mistake.


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## Karatedrifter7 (Jul 24, 2007)

When you say the Tracy's doing techniques on a video, who exactly do you mean? Al Tracy and his brother? Or Tracy students? Or the Elite Fighters comparison dvd? 
 I am confused as Confucious say.


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## Touch Of Death (Jul 24, 2007)

thetruth said:


> My old Kenpo instructor came via the Tracy system (though he is now with Jeff Speakman) so I am in no way bagging those that are a product of the Tracy system. I saw a video of the Tracy's doing some techniques that my instructor had and quite frankly I wouldn't have received my orange belt doing techniques the way they were. My instructor suggeseted that it was their students that really made the system as they saw the potential in Kenpo and delved further into the art and trained with others. I don't know if this is true but I know what I saw on the video and it was woeful. How did they gain such a following? Was it the direct students of theirs that made the art?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Be carefull dimissing other arts. They have different things to work on than you are familiar with, but they are good at what they know.
Sean


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## Monadnock (Jul 24, 2007)

thetruth said:


> *How did they gain such a following?* Was it the direct students of theirs that made the art?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Timing and the market.


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## kidswarrior (Jul 24, 2007)

Touch Of Death said:


> Be carefull dimissing other arts. They have different things to work on than you are familiar with, but they are good at what they know.
> Sean


Well said, Touch of Death. I think we all should be careful with another's reputation. When I can do my own art perfectly, then I guess I'll have the time to evaluate how others are doing in theirs. In the meantime, when I do get a chance to see others perform, I try to learn what I can from it.


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## Sigung86 (Jul 27, 2007)

I have to say a couple of things.

First... One must consider that the Tracy videos were among the first complete system tapes, if not the first put out for public consumption.  
As i no longer have access, I don't know about the quality of the new CDs.  I will say that for their days (mid to late 80s) they served a purpose very well.  Those of us who had them were able to learn from them, or be reminded of what we had already learned.

The early tapes were, essentially, an adventure in capitalism, as well as educational items.  I believe that Al Tracy was, and still is, a forward looking business man.  And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.
He had an idea, and took a chance that they would not be a loss-leader.

Interestingly, to me, at any rate, the Tracy Tape Series was more widely available, due to my physical location, than the Parker material up until the advent of the internet, and the late 90s and turn of the century.

I'm thinking that some of the comments here are a little rude when you consider that the material was put out for people who had already had training (instructor series, neh?).  And that no one else did it for quite a while in the volume that Al Tracy did it.  No glitz, no glamour, just the techniques and a lot of information from the man who had the answers.


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## Doc (Jul 27, 2007)

bushidomartialarts said:


> I don't know the deal there, but I'd bet a beer one of 'em slept with another's wife.



You're absolutely right. You don't know. keep your beer.


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## Doc (Jul 27, 2007)

Sigung86 said:


> I have to say a couple of things.
> 
> First... One must consider that the Tracy videos were among the first complete system tapes, if not the first put out for public consumption.
> As i no longer have access, I don't know about the quality of the new CDs.  I will say that for their days (mid to late 80s) they served a purpose very well.  Those of us who had them were able to learn from them, or be reminded of what we had already learned.
> ...



I concur.


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## KenpoDave (Jul 29, 2007)

Sigung86 said:


> I have to say a couple of things.
> 
> First... One must consider that the Tracy videos were among the first complete system tapes, if not the first put out for public consumption.
> As i no longer have access, I don't know about the quality of the new CDs. I will say that for their days (mid to late 80s) they served a purpose very well. Those of us who had them were able to learn from them, or be reminded of what we had already learned.
> ...


 
Well said.


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