# Pros and cons



## Lobo

hey, I'm new and all i know is that this martial arts dwells deeply in weapons training. I was impressed by many videos, and learned that there are many, many styles. All i want to know are some pros and cons of this Martial art. I've heard that its best defence is its offence, is this true? Are the movements and defence complicated? Does it lack in grappling? I've heard its great with disarming foes, but does horrible in group fights. So whats true, whats false, what are the advantages, and what are the disadvantages? Please, I understand all martial arts have their own pros and cons, but can you guys compare to other arts so i can have an idea of this beautiful art?


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## MJS

Lobo said:
			
		

> hey, I'm new and all i know is that this martial arts dwells deeply in weapons training. I was impressed by many videos, and learned that there are many, many styles. All i want to know are some pros and cons of this Martial art. I've heard that its best defence is its offence, is this true?


 
You'll find aspects of both.




> Are the movements and defence complicated?


 
Everything is complicated when you're first learning.  With time, things will become much easier.




> Does it lack in grappling?


 
There are grappling type moves, takedowns, locks, joint manipulations, etc. but not to the extent of BJJ.  I would say that the grappling that you see in the FMA's is effective.



> I've heard its great with disarming foes, but does horrible in group fights.


 
Any art has the potential to encounter problems in a mult. attacker situation.  However, a stick or blade in the hands of someone who knows how to use it..well, lets just say that you won't be disappointed with your results!




> So whats true, whats false, what are the advantages, and what are the disadvantages? Please, I understand all martial arts have their own pros and cons, but can you guys compare to other arts so i can have an idea of this beautiful art?


 
IMO, if you want to really get a good understanding of weapons, the FMA's can't be beat!  The techniques can easily be translated from weapon to empty hand and empty hand to weapon.  Another difference that you'll see is with the blocking.  Rather than just blocking an incoming limb, the Filipinos will attack that limb with a destruction.  No fancy kicks in the FMA's.  Instead you'll see alot of low line attacks.

This should give you a good idea of what this art is about.  Doing a quick search online should also provide you with some other details.

Mike


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## Lobo

MJS said:
			
		

> You'll find aspects of both.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Everything is complicated when you're first learning. With time, things will become much easier.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are grappling type moves, takedowns, locks, joint manipulations, etc. but not to the extent of BJJ. I would say that the grappling that you see in the FMA's is effective.
> 
> 
> 
> Any art has the potential to encounter problems in a mult. attacker situation. However, a stick or blade in the hands of someone who knows how to use it..well, lets just say that you won't be disappointed with your results!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IMO, if you want to really get a good understanding of weapons, the FMA's can't be beat! The techniques can easily be translated from weapon to empty hand and empty hand to weapon. Another difference that you'll see is with the blocking. Rather than just blocking an incoming limb, the Filipinos will attack that limb with a destruction. No fancy kicks in the FMA's. Instead you'll see alot of low line attacks.
> 
> This should give you a good idea of what this art is about. Doing a quick search online should also provide you with some other details.
> 
> Mike


 
Thanks, it did  . Im just trying to find a school in Queens, New York City.


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## Blindside

There is a listing here for a Pekiti instructor, I seem to recall that Eddie was in NYC but I could be wrong.

http://www.pt-go.com/training_instructors.asp


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## arnisador

I enjoyed the two seminars I attended with Jeff Chung, a (former?) *MartialTalk* member:
http://ntkali.org/


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## Lobo

what makes neo tribe Kali different from modern Arnis, or Arnis in general? In fact, who ever created the site seems a little ticked off at other martial art systems, boasting how great Neo Tribe Kali is. I was looking for an efficient, but beautiful art, that could be used in real life, but also fought in tournaments- which i see as Arnis. Does Neo Tribe Kali change this? I might have the wrong view, but i see it as stripping the beautiful and tornament part for a little ju jitsu.


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## arnisador

As I understand it, it's a spin-off from Sayoc Kali. But, I took the seminars from him before he split from the Sayoc group. Look for posts by *Guro Jeff* here.


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## Lobo

Hmmm...i see. I'm going to check it out, see how it is.


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## Brian R. VanCise

Good luck, let us know how it went.

Brian R. VanCise
www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com


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## arnisador

I liked him a lot, but again, that's based on two seminars with Mr. Chung at *hardheadjarhead*'s place, before he split off from the Sayoc group. I recommend checking him out; after that, you'll be in a much better position to make a decision!


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## Lobo

MJS said:
			
		

> You'll find aspects of both.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Everything is complicated when you're first learning. With time, things will become much easier.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are grappling type moves, takedowns, locks, joint manipulations, etc. but not to the extent of BJJ. I would say that the grappling that you see in the FMA's is effective.
> 
> 
> 
> Any art has the potential to encounter problems in a mult. attacker situation. However, a stick or blade in the hands of someone who knows how to use it..well, lets just say that you won't be disappointed with your results!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IMO, if you want to really get a good understanding of weapons, the FMA's can't be beat! The techniques can easily be translated from weapon to empty hand and empty hand to weapon. Another difference that you'll see is with the blocking. Rather than just blocking an incoming limb, the Filipinos will attack that limb with a destruction. No fancy kicks in the FMA's. Instead you'll see alot of low line attacks.
> 
> This should give you a good idea of what this art is about. Doing a quick search online should also provide you with some other details.
> 
> Mike


 
  From what i've read and researched, _modern arnis _has a flow, rhythm, whilst some other styles don't. I find the rhythm fancy, if you ask me, its like dancing, and reminds me of capoeira (only standing up). Many other Martial artists argue that Arnis/Kali/Escrima helps benefit _their_ arts a lot, but on its own it isn't all that good. If this is true, should i learn another art to help develop both? If so, which arts would help? I've recently seen Ong Bok, and yeah, its influenced me to appreciate Muay Thai...Arnis + Muay thai= Good? Or are empty hands good enough on its own?


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## MJS

Lobo said:
			
		

> From what i've read and researched, _modern arnis _has a flow, rhythm, whilst some other styles don't. I find the rhythm fancy, if you ask me, its like dancing, and reminds me of capoeira (only standing up).


 
The 'flow' is one of the beauties of the art.




> Many other Martial artists argue that Arnis/Kali/Escrima helps benefit _their_ arts a lot, but on its own it isn't all that good.


 
Whoever is saying this apparently does not have that good an understanding of the art.  MA has enhanced the other arts that I do, however it will do just fine on its own.




> If this is true, should i learn another art to help develop both? If so, which arts would help? I've recently seen Ong Bok, and yeah, its influenced me to appreciate Muay Thai...Arnis + Muay thai= Good? Or are empty hands good enough on its own?


 
Nothing wrong with doing more than one art, but I suggest having a solid base art first.  Then if you're interested in looking at something else, go for it.

Mike


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## arnisador

Lobo said:
			
		

> Many other Martial artists argue that Arnis/Kali/Escrima helps benefit _their_ arts a lot, but on its own it isn't all that good.



For the most part, I've found that these are people who came to FMA from extensive training in other arts when they wanted to add weapons. They dabbled in sticks/swords/knives, then went back to their own art. In fairness, many FMA instructors are willing to "give the people what they want" and if asked for sticks may have shown only sticks.

Find someone who trains FMA exclusively and you'll see a different side of it. While there are a few FMAs that are indeed weapons-only, most use the weapons to train a vareity of modalities, including empty-hands. If you can defend against a knife, which you can't even let touch you, you can defend against a punch!

That having been said, sure, cross-training is always great. I've found that JKD has helped me better functionalize my FMA, for example. I'm sure Muay Thai would be a fine fit with FMA, and vice versa. (There's also Krabi Krabong if you study Muay Thai, but it's hard to find.) But most FMA styles will be as 'complete' as most other arts are. I do agree that getting a base in one art first is generally a good idea.


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