# The Shaolin in SKK



## Jonny Figgis (Jan 23, 2009)

Hi all

Can anyone shed any light on the Shaolin aspect of SKK? I keep reading that there is no evidence of any Shaolin kung fu in SKK so I'd like to know more about this side of the system. I did read recently that Shaolin Lohan is evident in nearly every conceivable Chinese, Japanese and Okinawan martial art but seems to be more an influence and not that there are Lohan techniques or forms in the various arts.

I've read the history on a lot of SKK websites but I still can't find any evidence of Shaolin martial arts in the actual system. Any information would be really appreciated so I can gain a deeper knowledge of SKK.


Many thanks



Jonny


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## John Bishop (Jan 23, 2009)

It's like the question: where's the grapes in grape nuts?  Grape nuts is still a good cereal.  And a lot of people enjoy eating it.  There's just no grapes in it.
But it's not uncommon for systems to claim some type of roots from Shaolin.  It's just a matter of how much, and how long ago.  
And there are some SKK organizations who have a present connection to the Shaolin temple.  So you'd have to look at your personal lineage.


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## Danjo (Jan 23, 2009)

Jonny Figgis said:


> Hi all
> 
> Can anyone shed any light on the Shaolin aspect of SKK? I keep reading that there is no evidence of any Shaolin kung fu in SKK so I'd like to know more about this side of the system. I did read recently that Shaolin Lohan is evident in nearly every conceivable Chinese, Japanese and Okinawan martial art but seems to be more an influence and not that there are Lohan techniques or forms in the various arts.
> 
> ...


 
SKK has an interesting history. It began with George Pesare who had a purple belt in Karazenpo under Sonny Gascon and then went to the East Coast where he later earned black belts in TKD and Judo and Escrima. He made up a series of forms and techniques based on the various things that he studied and called it TKD-Kempo and various other names. One of his black belts was Nick Cerio who broke off and started teaching what he had learned from Pesare with some of his own modifications. One of Cerios' black belts was Fred Villari who took the material he had learned from Cerio through 2nd degree black belt and called it SKK. There was no direct Shaolin influence, but the TV show _Kung Fu_ was popular at the time and probably accounts for where he got the idea for the name (which was also one of the many names that Prof. Chow used to call _his_ art and passed on the name to his student Ralph Castro who called his art Shaolin Kenpo spelled with an "n" rather than an "m" and no "karate" after it). All the material after 2nd degree was pretty much made up by either Villari or one of his guys.

A couple of Villari's students were Charlie Mattera and Steve Demascos. Both went up to 7th degree under Villari and then each broke away and joined forces to ressurect the USSD. They too taught SKK the way they had learned it until they got the idea of actually going to China and learning Wu Shu from the Shaolin acrobats that currently inhabit the rebuilt tourist-trap temple. They've since incorporated some of that material into their version of SKK.


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## RevIV (Jan 23, 2009)

Danjo pretty much cut it to the point with almost the same story I wouldve wrote.  Do not always get caught up in the names.  I have a school that opened up down the street from me.  It is called American Jujitsu --  They do no ground work and it looks a heck of a lot like the style of Kempo I do  (SKK root)


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## Matt (Jan 23, 2009)

Danjo said:


> SKK has an interesting history. It began with George Pesare who had a purple belt in Karazenpo under Sonny Gascon and then went to the East Coast where he later earned black belts in TKD and Judo and Escrima. He made up a series of forms and techniques based on the various things that he studied and called it TKD-Kempo and various other names. One of his black belts was Nick Cerio who broke off and started teaching what he had learned from Pesare with some of his own modifications. One of Cerios' black belts was Fred Villari who took the material he had learned from Cerio through 2nd degree black belt and called it SKK. There was no direct Shaolin influence, but the TV show _Kung Fu_ was popular at the time and probably accounts for where he got the idea for the name (which was also one of the many names that Prof. Chow used to call _his_ art and passed on the name to his student Ralph Castro who called his art Shaolin Kenpo spelled with an "n" rather than an "m" and no "karate" after it). All the material after 2nd degree was pretty much made up by either Villari or one of his guys.
> 
> A couple of Villari's students were Charlie Mattera and Steve Demascos. Both went up to 7th degree under Villari and then each broke away and joined forces to ressurect the USSD. They too taught SKK the way they had learned it until they got the idea of actually going to China and learning Wu Shu from the Shaolin acrobats that currently inhabit the rebuilt tourist-trap temple. They've since incorporated some of that material into their version of SKK.



Pretty good. Some of the East Coast schools have some kung fu items (a wushu staff and a few other things) that were probably picked up by Demasco when studying with Yao Lee and Tak Eng, but not so much with the Shaolin.


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## 14 Kempo (Jan 23, 2009)

Matt said:


> Pretty good. Some of the East Coast schools have some kung fu items (a wushu staff and a few other things) that were probably picked up by Demasco when studying with Yao Lee and Tak Eng, but not so much with the Shaolin.


 
Here's a post from another forum ... 



> Originally Posted by *4u2nv*
> 
> 
> _Some investigators you all turned out to be, the answers are quite simple. Who is Stephen B. Demasco, as for the traditional Chinese martial arts, not including his kempo back round or boxing. He Studied the Wah Lum Pai System for 13 yrs in Boston Chinatown. His certification is signed sealed and stamped by their organization's Grandmaster P. Chan, __the rank awarded to him, 7th level accompanied by the formal Black and Gold Sash, hangs on the wall in his office. His certificate dates sometime in the early 80's probably before most of you, not all of you, but most who are posting bullsh:"t about his credentials even stepped on the floor to study the arts._
> ...


 
This is posted, not for the comments regarding the break up, but rather the possibility of where some of the Shaolin in SKK may have come from. Unfortunately this was well after the style of SKK was established by GM Fred Villari.


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## LawDog (Jan 24, 2009)

Fact, having been there then.
The Shaolin was placed into the system because of all the Kung Fu that was on TV and in the movies at that time.
If some of you remember,
*The Green Hornet,
*Bruce Lee, who was the Man back then,
*The Kung Fu series
There were many many more during this time period. 
Many of the Kempo / Kenpo schools even adopted the Kung Fu uniform for their school.
All of this was used as a commercial draw and not because of someone's prior training. The original patches never even used the work "Shaolin", they just simply had "Kenpo" on them.

GM Cerio kept a harder power base for his own system while others slowly changed to a more flowery type of system.

Don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with the various Kung Fu systems. These systems, under a real Master, are very efficent.


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## Matt (Jan 24, 2009)

14 Kempo said:


> Here's a post from another forum ...
> 
> 
> 
> This is posted, not for the comments regarding the break up, but rather the possibility of where some of the Shaolin in SKK may have come from. Unfortunately this was well after the style of SKK was established by GM Fred Villari.



To touch on this and Lawdog's answer - as was explained to me by someone who was 'there back then' - the 'animal techniques' for example,are not imported shaolin, they are Kempo techniques that were adjusted to look more 'kung fu' and organized (in a clever way, don't get me wrong) to take advantage of the 70's Kung fu craze. I'm guessing that Lawdog can confirm that 'Animals' were added after he started.


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## 14 Kempo (Jan 24, 2009)

14 Kempo said:


> ... Unfortunately this was well after the style of SKK was established by GM Fred Villari.





Matt said:


> To touch on this and Lawdog's answer - as was explained to me by someone who was 'there back then' - the 'animal techniques' for example,are not imported shaolin, they are Kempo techniques that were adjusted to look more 'kung fu' and organized (in a clever way, don't get me wrong) to take advantage of the 70's Kung fu craze. I'm guessing that Lawdog can confirm that 'Animals' were added after he started.



I'm not doubting that and not saying that the system was named "Shaolin" because of anything in the post, or for any other reason than pure business. In fact at the bottom of the posts it states that, or at least I felt it did. Just trying to point out that if it is a fact that GM Wai Hong has had an influence on some of the techiniques, then there may be some ties to Shaolin through him and Master Tak as well. I'm not claiming that personally, just pointing out the possibility. And even if it is fact, it was well after the style was labelled "Shaolin" and therefore had nothing to do with the naming.


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## Jdokan (Jan 24, 2009)

My understanding of the Shaolin insertion came from Fred's Wife side...Apparently, an in-law of some type....supposed to be valid master...wasn't rhere don't know....Lawdog you're an early member maybe you can offer your input....what I was told maybe just a story...

As for the animal techniques....I had a couple in my early training....them main push to intertwine them the material didn't occur (for me) until after my 3rd or 4th dan.....


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## savagek (Jan 24, 2009)

Hello all, 

Father in Law

Had been told the same story in January of 1976


I trained at the Saugus MA. United Studioes of Self Defense

Be well and Gassho, 

Ken


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## Matt (Jan 24, 2009)

14 Kempo said:


> I'm not doubting that and not saying that the system was named "Shaolin" because of anything in the post, or for any other reason than pure business. In fact at the bottom of the posts it states that, or at least I felt it did. Just trying to point out that if it is a fact that GM Wai Hong has had an influence on some of the techiniques, then there may be some ties to Shaolin through him and Master Tak as well. I'm not claiming that personally, just pointing out the possibility. And even if it is fact, it was well after the style was labelled "Shaolin" and therefore had nothing to do with the naming.



Right. I agree (I think). I think I may have misunderstood part of the statement. 

To clarify(in my opinion)-
Named Shaolin Kempo for business reasons.
Some authentic 'Kung Fu' from some authentic sources, probably via Steve Demasco and others. 
I was mentally separating 'kung fu' from 'Shaolin' (sort of like branding) which was why I think I was not quite getting your point. 
The post indicated that Demasco did very little training with Wai Hong, with Tak Wah Eng providing most of the instruction. 
That's what I've gotten out of this so far. 

That's what I'm thinking. Hope I'm more clear now.


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## Danjo (Jan 24, 2009)

14 Kempo said:


> Here's a post from another forum ...
> 
> 
> 
> This is posted, not for the comments regarding the break up, but rather the possibility of where some of the Shaolin in SKK may have come from. Unfortunately this was well after the style of SKK was established by GM Fred Villari.


 
Yeah, I'm sure Demasco inserted stuff after he broke away from Villari, but basic SKK is what it is.


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## 14 Kempo (Jan 24, 2009)

Danjo said:


> Yeah, I'm sure Demasco inserted stuff after he broke away from Villari, but basic SKK is what it is.


 
Agreed ... some of what we do is recognizable, but you can see it is way different from what I had at FVSSD or USSD.


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## Jonny Figgis (Jan 25, 2009)

Wow...that certainly got people talking!

I feel from reading this and reading other material from a variety of websites, that it should really be simply called 'Kempo' and left at that. Would anyone agree with this?

I can see from Mr. Bishop's website that the lineage goes back to Kajukenbo..so really it is an offshoot of that system which is made up of many different martial arts. I find the history very interesting and gives a deeper understanding to what one is studying.

Any more information or insights would be great. I'd love to hear more words from Mr. Bishop on this topic.

Many thanks and respect


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## LawDog (Jan 25, 2009)

Responding to Matt,
Yes you are correct, back then it was,
*Combinations, low number,
*Kenpos, limited number,
*Various weapons defense,
*Forms,
*Many drills,
*Sparring / fighting.
I did not learn the animal presets myself. I am guessing that they were modified Kenpos and other imported presets, probably way after the formation of FVSSD.
The USSD was what it was,
Early - fighting was the main focus, you were either tough or you were gone,
Later on - presets were the main focus.
"That was then and this is now".

p.s. Lawyers put an end to most of the real tough martial arts schools, not the systems or the individual schools.


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## almost a ghost (Jan 26, 2009)

LawDog said:


> p.s. Lawyers put an end to most of the real tough martial arts schools, not the systems or the individual schools.



I'd give them half the blame, the other half can be summed up by what my old Kempo instructor told me when he was talking about the harder training he went through in the days of yore (aka, early 1980's) "You don't keep students by sending them into work the next day with black eyes and split lips."


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## Danjo (Jan 26, 2009)

almost a ghost said:


> I'd give them half the blame, the other half can be summed up by what my old Kempo instructor told me when he was talking about the harder training he went through in the days of yore (aka, early 1980's) "You don't keep students by sending them into work the next day with black eyes and split lips."


 
That's the price of running a commercial school, i.e., where the instructor actually relies on the income from the school to make a living (rather than just some extra cash in his pocket.) Once that happens, you have to water it down to keep students like you say. Quantity replaces quality when you think of students, and since a very small amount of people want to bang hard in sparring and training in general, you water it down to keep the most people.


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## Sigung86 (Jan 26, 2009)

Coming from the outside of SKK, but being around the arts back in the late 60s and early 70s, most everything the old timers are saying was true.  I remember in San Antonio, Tx, studying with a gentleman named Dick Ranney.  It was, to all intent and purpose, Traco Karate, which was to say in many ways, Tracy's.  

When Kung Fu (David Carradine) came on the scene, we used to close down the school on Friday evenings, pull out the snacks and such and watch... Then we'd sit around till 10:00 pm discussing and making ourselves "deeper"... :mst:

Somehow, sorry I don't remember details after this time, Mr. Ranney hooked up with a fellow named L'iang Sang, or something similar while I was still there ... We just called him Fred.  He was hawaiian, and had a Shaolin basedFamily system.  We studied it with him, and learned quite a bit, but the material did not lend itself to being a part of the Kenpo Karaté, and so, later, became fill in for the higher belts.  The way it was in the old days in San Antonio Kenpo (probably due to all the then extent politics) was that there was really nothing, for whatever reason, after 3rd Dan... And so it was a matter of finding something else to go with.

Actually, after the Shaolin Kung Fu debacle, Sifu Ranney then  ended up in Kajukembo under Don Nahoolewa, but by that time I was in Nam, and then on to a three year tour of England.

Sorry for the prattling, but thought to get in here and roil of the waters a little more, and try to get all this out before I go to that great Kenpo retirement home in the sky.  :angel:

Sorry for any major interruptions, but it's fun to talk about the old days.


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## Danjo (Jan 31, 2009)

Here's an enlightening article about Villari and the original USSD. Turns out that Black Belt Magazine has all of it's issues scanned on Google in a searchable database.

http://books.google.com/books?id=Z9...+villari+markets+the+martial+arts&output=html


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## LawDog (Feb 1, 2009)

Yep,
I remember that article and have a copy of it.
What Fred did back then today most everybody is doing or trying to do now.
Why bang on just Fred?
:idunno:


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## Matt (Feb 1, 2009)

Danjo said:


> Here's an enlightening article about Villari and the original USSD. Turns out that Black Belt Magazine has all of it's issues scanned on Google in a searchable database.
> 
> http://books.google.com/books?id=Z9...+villari+markets+the+martial+arts&output=html



Fantastic. I have a cruddy copy of this one, but the google scan is much better. I think this one is a must read for SKK folks, and is a pretty good primer for any discussion regarding Villari and the Early USSD. Thank you for finding and sharing this gem. How about that picture spread of Combination 13!

Anyone who doubts if FV ever 'had it' should definitely read Massad Ayoob's (author of In the Gravest Extreme, a pretty compelling book on the role of the handgun in self defense) description of him. 

One thing I think is funny (haven't read this one in a long time) is where they say that despite the longer hours, the road to black belt at USSD is no shorter than the other established competitors, about two or three years...


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## Matt (Feb 1, 2009)

P.S. - Just for fun, find the biggest 'whopper' told in the article!


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## Danjo (Feb 2, 2009)

Matt said:


> P.S. - Just for fun, find the biggest 'whopper' told in the article!


 
The part where he said he wasn't getting rich off of the USSD?


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## Danjo (Feb 2, 2009)

LawDog said:


> Yep,
> I remember that article and have a copy of it.
> What Fred did back then today most everybody is doing or trying to do now.
> Why bang on just Fred?
> :idunno:


 
Wasn't banging on him, just pointing out the article and what he said concerning the techniques in SKK.


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## LawDog (Feb 2, 2009)

Danjo,
I didn't think that you were, my point was that if people were going to bang Fred that they should bang on the others as well.


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## DavidCC (Feb 2, 2009)

Matt said:


> P.S. - Just for fun, find the biggest 'whopper' told in the article!


 
hard to say... some of these might be true

"While in the islands, Villari studied under a Chinese-Australian instructor, Soo, and gained his third and fourth degrees.  After working with another master, Len Chou, Villari received his fifth degree and soon decided to open his own school."

"Kenpo is virtually the same as kung-fu"

"Within a few moths any student of mine  has learned  combinations I know will work because I have tested them on the street"

"I can put 6 knives into a postage stamp from 12 feet"


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## Danjo (Feb 2, 2009)

Gotta love self promotion.


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## almost a ghost (Feb 2, 2009)

DavidCC said:


> hard to say... some of these might be true
> 
> "While in the islands, Villari studied under a Chinese-Australian instructor, Soo, and gained his third and fourth degrees.  After working with another master, Len Chou, Villari received his fifth degree and soon decided to open his own school."



Combine that with this quote

"The Chinese Masters I have studied under refer to their art as 'Chinese boxing.' If you were to ask them what style, they'd be insulted. And these are the true masters."

So Chinese masters get insulted if you ask them what style of Kung fu they do, but have no problem using a Japanese ranking system. Riiiiiiight.


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## DavidCC (Feb 2, 2009)

This was the first time I had ever heard of Mr. Villari having any rank between 2nd and 10th.


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## Danjo (Feb 2, 2009)

DavidCC said:


> This was the first time I had ever heard of Mr. Villari having any rank between 2nd and 10th.


 
Good point. And it wasn't like they each gave him a 1st in their arts, they just kept promoting him up the ladder one stripe at a time. Hmmmm...


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## Hand Sword (Feb 2, 2009)

Danjo said:


> Gotta love self promotion.


 

Something that most if not all of our pioneers were/are guilty of.


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## Hand Sword (Feb 2, 2009)

Danjo said:


> Good point. And it wasn't like they each gave him a 1st in their arts, they just kept promoting him up the ladder one stripe at a time. Hmmmm...


 

Which still goes on with high rankers, organizations, etc....


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## Danjo (Feb 3, 2009)

Hand Sword said:


> Which still goes on with high rankers, organizations, etc....


 
Too true. Sad, but true.


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## Jonny Figgis (Feb 3, 2009)

Hand Sword said:


> Something that most if not all of our pioneers were/are guilty of.


 

Okay, I am not trying to be controversial or ruffle any feathers but is it not true that when a style is developed that the originators/creators would be considered 10th Dan or 10th Degree? (taking it that 10th Dan or 10th Degree is the highest rank one can achieve) In self defence systems, they are referred to as being the founders of the system which equates to this dan ranking.

Fred Villari created SKK from various styles of martial arts so therefore he could be considered a 10th Degree. Some other examples of this would be...EPAK is made up of various martial arts and SGM Parker was a 10th Degree and he created the system. This would be the same for Kajukenbo, JKD, Hapkido or Tae Kwon Do. If I am wrong here, please correct me as I may misunderstand the process and would like correction if this is so.

Great to start a thread and get the conversations going with some great martial artists...many thanks for your contributions.


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## LawDog (Feb 3, 2009)

Being a legit 10th dan is subject to biased and non-biased opinons. If a true span of control exists than who can point a finger.
There are many "legit" 9th & 10th dan's out there who do not have their own student base, school, or are one of those "instructors at large" types.
It comes down to this in many cases, who are their friends.
Judge a senior rank by the quality of thier own student base.


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## kidswarrior (Feb 3, 2009)

LawDog said:


> Being a legit 10th dan is subject to biased and non-biased opinons. If a true span of control exists than who can point a finger.
> There are many "legit" 9th & 10th dan's out there who do not have their own student base, school, or are one of those "instructors at large" types.
> It comes down to this in many cases, who are their friends.
> *Judge a senior rank by the quality of thier own student base.*


Very interesting perspective, LD. As I apply it to the people I know, seems pretty accurate. 

I bolded the last sentence because that's always been my goal, to foster certain qualities in students. Have never thought about this in terms of my own rank, but has been about their growth and welfare.


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## Danjo (Feb 3, 2009)

Jonny Figgis said:


> Okay, I am not trying to be controversial or ruffle any feathers but is it not true that when a style is developed that the originators/creators would be considered 10th Dan or 10th Degree? (taking it that 10th Dan or 10th Degree is the highest rank one can achieve) In self defence systems, they are referred to as being the founders of the system which equates to this dan ranking.
> 
> Fred Villari created SKK from various styles of martial arts so therefore he could be considered a 10th Degree. Some other examples of this would be...EPAK is made up of various martial arts and SGM Parker was a 10th Degree and he created the system. This would be the same for Kajukenbo, JKD, Hapkido or Tae Kwon Do. If I am wrong here, please correct me as I may misunderstand the process and would like correction if this is so.
> 
> Great to start a thread and get the conversations going with some great martial artists...many thanks for your contributions.


 
You got it. If you start your own system, you can rank yourself anything you want to because it's _your_ system. I have no problem with Villari claiming 10th degree based on that (or anyone else for that matter). It's when they try to convince me that they _earned_ their rank through years of hard work etc. mastering many systems that I have an issue with it. Villari seems less guilty of that than many others that have come along since him. At least he acknowledged his original teacher and the rank he got from him.


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## LawDog (Feb 3, 2009)

Danjo,
Agreed.


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## Rabu (Feb 4, 2009)

I dont see the link anymore, but for a long time I remember Danjo having a link to his super duper 10th degree master martial arts page.

Perhaps a revisit would be amusing?

Rpb


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## Danjo (Feb 4, 2009)

Rabu said:


> I dont see the link anymore, but for a long time I remember Danjo having a link to his super duper 10th degree master martial arts page.
> 
> Perhaps a revisit would be amusing?
> 
> Rpb


 
That was the one with the Taj Mahal being pictured as my dojo. 

I thought it was gone for good, but I found it was still up:

http://www.geocities.com/danjo.rm/kayraytay.html


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## Jonny Figgis (Feb 4, 2009)

Danjo said:


> You got it. If you start your own system, you can rank yourself anything you want to because it's _your_ system. I have no problem with Villari claiming 10th degree based on that (or anyone else for that matter). It's when they try to convince me that they _earned_ their rank through years of hard work etc. mastering many systems that I have an issue with it. Villari seems less guilty of that than many others that have come along since him. At least he acknowledged his original teacher and the rank he got from him.


 
Thanks Danjo, I'm glad I'm on the right track with this one.


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## amcgroup (May 14, 2009)

There is a problem how people define lineage regarding GM Villari which explains where the "Shaolin" aspect comes into play. 
Villari did earn his black belt from GM Cerio. GM Cerio was a black belt under GM Pesare. But GM Cerio also trained and was given a black belt in 1967 from William Chow, eventually Cerio was awarded his 5th degree in 1971. 
GM Villari began his training under Cerio AFTER Cerio was a black belt with Chow. Chow reportedly studied Shaolin Kung Fu and Kenpo jiu-jitsu then combined the two into what he called a number of names including Shaolin Kenpo.
GM Villari trained with Cerio until approximately 1971 and therefore was taught the Chow Shaolin Kenpo via GM Cerio.
I began traing with GM Villari and James Bryant in the Dedham, MA. studio in the mid 1970's, becoming a full time instructor and awarded my Shodan rank in 1980. At this time GM Villari's style was called Chinese Kenpo jiu-jitsu. In the early 1980's the name was changed to Shaolin Kempo Karate. This was long after the tv, hollywood Kung Fu craze of the 1970's. I have all of my rank diplomas showing the names of the system during the specific time frames. The Shaolin term within the style is not meant to state the style is Shaolin Kung Fu but that some Shaolin type techniques and theories are applied within the system. The Shaolin comes from Professor Chow to GM Cerio to GM Villari. Many people seem to take offense to GM Villari utilizing the Shaolin name but in reality that comes from Chow who Villari has a direct connection to via his lineage, GM Villari then formed his own style and utilized the Shaolin term as part of the style name.
 One simply has to go back through all of the so called Kenpo/Kempo masters and see that they all took what they learned from their teachers, applied there own theories and experiences and created a new, sub-set, style of Kenpo. 
It always seem that this theory is ok for Masters such as Parker, Emperado, Castro and so on but Villari's system and how he achieved it is always questioned. The truth be told many kenpo masters were just Shodan rank when they went on there own, continued training and then named there own style.
Having trained with and worked for GM Villari personally I cant attest to his ability and the quality of his students, at least in the 1970's. Back then one common denominator existed in most all of Master Villari, Cerio and Pesare black belts in New England; they could fight, in or out of the dojo. For all of these instructors to be able to turn out so many quality black belts shows that regardless of the name the basic system, applied correctly by people willing to learn,  works.


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## Danjo (May 14, 2009)

amcgroup said:


> GM Villari trained with Cerio until approximately 1971 and therefore was taught the Chow Shaolin Kenpo via GM Cerio.


 
Not according to Cerio or the films of Pesare from the early 1960's which show the current SKK techniques and forms. Cerio passed on to Villari what he got from Pesare. His renovation of his system was after Villari left. When Joe Shuras and his wife left to train with Cerio, he told them that he could either "clean up what they had" from Villari which was the system that he no longer taught, or else they could start all over again with his new system. They opted for cleaning up the SKK they learned from Villari.

As I said above, if you look at the techniques that Pesare and his guys were doing from the early 1960's, it is pretty much the same as what SKK is doing now in terms of the basic techniques and forms. That tells me that there wasn't a lot of direct Chow influence in what Villari learned from Cerio.

Also, Cerio barely trained at all with Chow. Perhaps three weeks total time and then some time with Bill Chun Sr. who was one of Chow's black belts. This is all admitted to by Cerio and those that were there. Cerio also sought out training with Ed Parker and others a well when creating his new system.

The only one that I know that was told directly to call his art "Shaolin Kenpo" by Prof. Chow was Ralph Castro.


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## amcgroup (May 14, 2009)

I don't disagree with you that Castro was told by Chow to use the name of Shaolin Kenpo. 

I respectfully disagree with you regarding the Chow to Cerio to Villari connection. 

Cerio trained with Pesare and recieved his black belt in the early to mid sixties. Cerio began training with Chow from approximately 1966 to 1971. I can not state the amount or time of training but Chow did award Cerio his Shodan in 1967 and his fifth degree in 1971 so I would have to think there was a considerable amount of training to reach such high ranking.

Cerio did train with GM Parker as you state and Cerio did start Nick Cerio Kempo with the blessing of Chow. Cerio formed his own system in the 1970's after training with Chow and Parker.

My only point is that Villari began training with Cerio AFTER Cerio was a black belt awarded by Chow. That being the case it is reasonable to assume that what Cerio taught Villari was some type of combination of what Cerio had learned from his previous instructors; Chow and Pesare. This would show why films of Pesare and Cerio in the 1960's would resemble what SKK later taught.

I in no way mean to disparage any of the Masters I referred to in my post. I am only a student and in no way would I disrespect any of the recognized Kempo Masters from Chow to Castro to Parker or Emperado, etc. I am only pointing out what I know to be the facts.

There were clearly many political issues regarding all of the people who went off on there own. I have trained in Villari's first brand of kempo and under instructors who then went to GM Cerio after a break from GM Villari in the "cleaned up" version. Many of these instructors now deny any connection to Villari although he was there original instructor. Thats there decision not mine.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that if numerous people can rename their Kenpo which is evidenced by the numerous names for a similiar style then why not Villari. My other point is that whatever you call it as long as you were trained properly the system is very street effective, I know this from personal experience and am grateful to everyone before me who molded and modified the system to what its become.

Please don't take my post as a negative attack on anyone, these are the facts as I recall them and via internet research. Kenponet has an extensive Kenpo family tree and it clearly lists GM Cerio as a Chow black belt and then onto Villari. I realize Cerio is also a Pesare black belt via the Chow-Emperado-Gascon lineage my point being Villari began his training with Cerio after Cerio had already been awarded black belts from both Pesare and Chow. This would show why there are so many similiarities in the multitude of kenpo styles.


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## Danjo (May 14, 2009)

Well, pretty much everyone that was around knows that Cerio had less than a month of training with Prof. Chow. It's not really something anyone contends at this point. Write to Bill Chun Jr. and ask him about it. As to the black belts that Chow awarded Cerio... check out what art it was in.

I'll post some more information after I've gone back through my files.


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## amcgroup (May 14, 2009)

I would like to make one more point in my belief of the Chow to Cerio to Villari lineage and that involves the kata Hansuki.

The form was taught by Chow to Cerio, to Cerio's brother and then to Villari. That specific kata does not exist, nor taught in the Pesare lineage.

Cerio could only have learned it from Chow and Villari only from Cerio which shows me that Villari was taught by Cerio from both the Pesare and Chow training.

I'm sure Professor Shuras or Joseph Rebello can expound on this specific subject and link with knowledge.

Thank you.


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## Danjo (May 14, 2009)

amcgroup said:


> I would like to make one more point in my belief of the Chow to Cerio to Villari lineage and that involves the kata Hansuki.
> 
> The form was taught by Chow to Cerio, to Cerio's brother and then to Villari. That specific kata does not exist, nor taught in the Pesare lineage.
> 
> ...


 
Cerio learned Hon Suki from Bill Chun Sr., not Chow. Chun is the one who created the form.


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## Twin Fist (May 14, 2009)

i didnt know that Danjo was a shodan in martial arts history too!!


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## amcgroup (May 15, 2009)

Well I stand corrected, if your right.

So if you are correct Cerio learned Hansuki ( maybe my spelling is wrong) from Chun. 

If thats correct as you state then Cerio learned it from Chun, Cerio then trained Villari.

So then Villari was trained by Cerio who was trained and studied with Pesare, Chow, Parker and Chun. If thats correct, as you state, then Villari appears to have a pretty good lineage of instructors to back up his system. 

I'm sure my Villari kenpo seniors like Prof. Shuras, Joe Rebello and GM Cunningham can verify the truth of the matter, whatever that is.

Please understand I'm not trying to take a negative position with you I'm just tired of hearing GM Villari constantly referred to as if he is not worthy of his position yet people in his lineage are considered true Masters.

My training with Mr. Villari literally saved my life. I left my position in the original USSD and worked for twenty six years in high risk law enforcement assignments where I was forced to fight for my life on a number of occasions. I'm here today because of the training I learned via Mr. Villari, James Bryant and others which I was able to use on the street where ultimately it counts.

Regarding GM Cerio's BB staus from Prof. Chow, according to you it was not real and/or not from Prof. Chow's system.

I don't know but if Chow was simply assigning rank as you infer then I guess all subsequent rank from Chow is not legitimate going on your theory.

If thats correct then all of the BB rank Chow awarded to Emperado, Parker et al is apparently illegitimate. Therefore subsequent rank to Gascon, Chapel, Tracy and Pesare would also be suspect.

I hope not because then were all illegitimate. 

What I've read about Prof. Chow I don't think he would just "give out" advanced ranking for no reason.


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## Matt (May 15, 2009)

amcgroup said:


> Well I stand corrected, if your right.
> 
> So if you are correct Cerio learned Hansuki ( maybe my spelling is wrong) from Chun.



Well, I guess you stand corrected. I've looked into it a little myself.


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## Matt (May 15, 2009)

amcgroup said:


> If thats correct as you state then Cerio learned it from Chun, Cerio then trained Villari.



Yes. 


> So then Villari was trained by Cerio who was trained and studied with Pesare, Chow, Parker and Chun. If thats correct, as you state, then Villari appears to have a pretty good lineage of instructors to back up his system.


The early parts, yes. The upper black belt material reflects GM Villari's 'creativity'. 



> I'm sure my Villari kenpo seniors like Prof. Shuras, Joe Rebello and GM Cunningham can verify the truth of the matter, whatever that is.



Yes, they can. GM Cunningham has been especially forthright. 



> Please understand I'm not trying to take a negative position with you I'm just tired of hearing GM Villari constantly referred to as if he is not worthy of his position yet people in his lineage are considered true Masters.



It's not that exactly. It's what has happened since. The early generation could fight. As the material base expanded to keep the upper belts busy, and the quality control of black belts declined to keep the franchise instructor supply coming, and the ridiculous stories accumulated to explain the history of his art compounded, that's where the questions of legitimacy came from. 



> My training with Mr. Villari literally saved my life. I left my position in the original USSD and worked for twenty six years in high risk law enforcement assignments where I was forced to fight for my life on a number of occasions. I'm here today because of the training I learned via Mr. Villari, James Bryant and others which I was able to use on the street where ultimately it counts.



That's where the disconnect is. You were there before the upper black belt forms began to resemble cheerleading choreography, and before the secret kung fu supply appeared. You studied with Jim Bryant, who hits hard, has very precise technical skill, and who has since discarded much of the 'stuff' that came along after you left. Jim Bryant used to tell stories about what they did in the early days, how it changed, and why he left.  Then Mr. Bryant went back to study with Nick Cerio, and after Mr. Cerio's death, began to study with GM Pesare. 



> Regarding GM Cerio's BB staus from Prof. Chow, according to you it was not real and/or not from Prof. Chow's system.


He's actually stating that the training time was about 1 month, and that it was in Kenpo in general, and not in a specific system of Chow's. I think that's as far as he was inferring. 



> I don't know but if Chow was simply assigning rank as you infer then I guess all subsequent rank from Chow is not legitimate going on your theory.



I think the rank reflects professor Chow's judgement /  assessment of Mr. Cerio. I can't infer much else from there. I think it's like a lot of ranks at that time. I think that a lot of folks skipped around in rank at those days. 



> If thats correct then all of the BB rank Chow awarded to Emperado, Parker et al is apparently illegitimate. Therefore subsequent rank to Gascon, Chapel, Tracy and Pesare would also be suspect.



Or at least pretty equal in legitamacy. 


> I hope not because then were all illegitimate.


Well, see above. 


> What I've read about Prof. Chow I don't think he would just "give out" advanced ranking for no reason.


I'm sure he had his reasons.


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## Twin Fist (May 15, 2009)

Not so fast.

You said "subsequent"

Emperado was already a 5th Dan under Chow in 1947 when he helped form Kajukenbo.

Parker was a Shodan from Chow PRIOR to 1960

thats not "subsequent" to the time period you are talking about. Thats PRIOR to it.

Look, the whole problem with Villari is that he promoted himself from 2nd Dan to 10th.

 All that "i learned on an island from someone named lo Fat (or whatever) dont worry about if no one has ever heard of him" is just so much crap

And he dinged himself to 10th without creating a new system.

All the new material (that is, the stuff he hadnt learned from Cerio, Pesare) didnt show up for many years after he dinged himself. It doesnt work that way. You want to cal yourself Grand Master, you have to earn it by created a new system FIRST. He didnt.
*
"I guess all subsequent rank from Chow is not legitimate going on your theory.

If thats correct then all of the BB rank Chow awarded to Emperado, Parker et al is apparently illegitimate. Therefore subsequent rank to Gascon, Chapel, Tracy and Pesare would also be suspect."*

All this is is just a passive agressive threat, a way of saying "if you say my guy is a fraud, then your guy is a fraud too"

Friad not.

Emperado helped created a whole new system

Parker created a whole new system

Neither claimed a 10th untill AFTER, in both cases MANY YEARS after they had created whole new systems.


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## Danjo (May 15, 2009)

amcgroup said:


> Well I stand corrected, if your right.
> 
> So if you are correct Cerio learned Hansuki ( maybe my spelling is wrong) from Chun.
> 
> ...


 
Firstly, I'll pretty much agree with what Matt wrote regarding Villari and when people studied with him. He's hardly the only one that went down the commercial path to mediocrity in terms of requirements for rank in his system (he now sells them via video testing).

As to Cerio and his rank from Chow, Prof. Chow would do "rank recognition" for people who were not trained in his system like many others do these days. It's not the same as saying that they had earned a black belt from him. Anyone with a black belt from Prof. Chow in Prof. Chow's art is legitimate. I have video of Nick Cerio from several decades of his life (early years with Pesare; Late 60's/early seventies on his own; 80's to 90's on his own) He was a very talented martial artist and I am in no way taking away from his ability by pointing out the rank recognition thing.

People trained harder in the "old" days. I'm not saying that they were more _athletic (_people do amazingly acrobatic things these days), but it was harder contact and the mentality was different. Whether it was Shotokan, TKD, Shaolin Kempo etc., schools were where fighters trained, they weren't a health club. So I have no doubt that your training has served you well and that your loyalty is justified. But we'll continue to point out the facts as we know them.

To me lineage isn't "everyone that I ever learned something from". If that were the case, then I could list a ton of martial artists that I'd met at seminars, belt tests, trained with in PE classes (took Aikido in PE in college), etc. To me lineage is the instructor that you earned your rank from, not the one who awarded you some rank in consideration for what you already knew. I feel badly for those that trained in SKK in the old days who have to put up with what has happened commercially in the system. I also feel badly for those that currently train in SKK under someone who is legit now, and trains like they used to.


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## punisher73 (May 15, 2009)

Danjo said:


> To me lineage isn't "everyone that I ever learned something from". If that were the case, then I could list a ton of martial artists that I'd met at seminars, belt tests, trained with in PE classes (took Aikido in PE in college), etc. To me lineage is the instructor that you earned your rank from, not the one who awarded you some rank in consideration for what you already knew. I feel badly for those that trained in SKK in the old days who have to put up with what has happened commercially in the system. I also feel badly for those that currently train in SKK under someone who is legit now, and trains like they used to.


 
That is a good point.  I guess the issue would be, if you started your own style and you added in Aikido principles and techniques into it.  Then would you include the training you got from that in your lineage?  All of the Cerio bio's I have read made it sound like the training that Cerio recieved from Chow/Chun Sr. that is made an impact and he incorporated moves and ideas from that into his version of kenpo.

That aside, it should be clearly stated if you informally trained with someone and added ideas from that training into what you did versus claiming what was essentially rank recognition to make it seem like your informal training was done as a formal student and then adding that as lineage. For example, Ed Parker for instance, trained with different chinese masters and acknowledged their influence, but he was never formally a student and did not claim lineage through Ark Wong or the others.  

Nor do I think that if you studied an art and achieved rank, and then created your own art and put NOTHING of that other art into it, should you have to claim that in your lineage.  I still see that argument about Mitose in kenpo lineages.


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## Danjo (May 15, 2009)

punisher73 said:


> That is a good point. I guess the issue would be, if you started your own style and you added in Aikido principles and techniques into it. Then would you include the training you got from that in your lineage? All of the Cerio bio's I have read made it sound like the training that Cerio recieved from Chow/Chun Sr. that is made an impact and he incorporated moves and ideas from that into his version of kenpo.
> 
> That aside, it should be clearly stated if you informally trained with someone and added ideas from that training into what you did versus claiming what was essentially rank recognition to make it seem like your informal training was done as a formal student and then adding that as lineage. For example, Ed Parker for instance, trained with different chinese masters and acknowledged their influence, but he was never formally a student and did not claim lineage through Ark Wong or the others.
> 
> Nor do I think that if you studied an art and achieved rank, and then created your own art and put NOTHING of that other art into it, should you have to claim that in your lineage. I still see that argument about Mitose in kenpo lineages.


 
Unless I trained under someone that certified me to teach their system and issue rank in it, I wouldn't put them in my lineage, nor would they count me in their's I would think. I would acknowledge their influence, and my training under them, and they might acknowledge me as their student, but that's it.


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## amcgroup (May 15, 2009)

I'll end my discussion of GM Cerio and how the "Shaolin" is in SKK by posting a link for Cerio's bio from the web page Martialinfo.com.

The bio clearly states Cerio's training with Chow and Chun including the dates of his Shodan and Godan. I mean no disprespect to anyone just trying to state the facts as I was told them. I find it hard to believe that Chow would award such high ranks to someone he never trained.

http://www.martialinfo.com/isearchd.asp?id=13615

g Jiu-jitsu, Boxing,
Shaolin Gong-fu, Karate, Kobudo, and Kenpo from George Pesare, whom he received his Black Belt from in 1966.
Around that time he sought out Professor William K.S. Chow. Before Cerio could study with Chow, he was instructed to study with one of Chow's top students, William Chun.
This was traditionally done as a test of patience, honor, and skill.
After training with William Chun, he was given permission to train under Professor Chow. On August 15, 1967, Cerio was awarded his Shodan (Black Belt) in Kenpo by William K. S. Chow, and in December 1971, Cerio was awarded his Godan (5th Degree Black Belt) in Kenpo by Chow, making him one of Professor Chow's highest ranudents at that time, and he also presented Nick Cerio with his belt.


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## amcgroup (May 15, 2009)

By the way I enjoyed the discussion, its good to be able to debate like gentlemen.

I learned somethings I didn't know and appreciate your input.

I do agree that the current SKK is a watered down version of what it was supposed to be, guess I'm lucky I trained in the 70's before the almighty dollar became the deciding factor.

Danjo loved your health club analogy and with your permission I'll use it with my students.

Be well.


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## Matt (May 15, 2009)

amcgroup said:


> By the way I enjoyed the discussion, its good to be able to debate like gentlemen.



We try!



> I learned somethings I didn't know and appreciate your input.



I  learn new things about this all the time. 



> I do agree that the current SKK is a watered down version of what it was supposed to be, guess I'm lucky I trained in the 70's before the almighty dollar became the deciding factor.



You are very lucky. The seniors I talk to miss that time, and what is done in most schools these days bear no resemblance to the training you enjoyed / endured. A lot of the better SKK guys these days are working to get back to where you started. 

Thanks for your input as well, and I hope  you are spreading the art as you learned it. We need more schools like that.


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## punisher73 (May 18, 2009)

Danjo said:


> Unless I trained under someone that certified me to teach their system and issue rank in it, I wouldn't put them in my lineage, nor would they count me in their's I would think. I would acknowledge their influence, and my training under them, and they might acknowledge me as their student, but that's it.


 
That is how I feel as well.  I see so many instructors padding their resume and listing masters of styles in their lineage that they might have taken a seminar or two from, but were never a formal student.


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## marlon (May 18, 2009)

amcgroup said:


> Well I stand corrected, if your right.
> 
> So if you are correct Cerio learned Hansuki ( maybe my spelling is wrong) from Chun.
> 
> ...


 

Danjo is correct about the form.  As a skk practitioner who had a lot of misgivings about the legitimacy of GM Villari and his system, i did a great deal of invetigation.  GM Villari's marketing and business practices bother many people as well as his self promotion to 10th dan.  however, i have found that the skk system, properly taught and trained is exceptionally effective.  Most people do not question his skills (especially as a Nick Cerio black belt) adn i have tried to find all the things wrong with skk and other than the way some people teach and practice it (true of almost all martial art systems) it is lacking in very little.  I personally wish that  GM Villari would have just waited for the martial arts community to judge the merit of his style and i am sure he would have been recognized and we all could have avoided much drama.  Business is something else entirely...earning money is good, having it is great so, what can i say, i am not very adept at making money from martial arts and have almost had to close a few times...does that make me somehow more ethical than GM Villari, not really...There is nothing wrong with selling a good product at a good price...just make sure of the quality assurance, though because there is nothing more dangerous that teaching crap and passing it off as self defense.  In the case of skk that is more about the organization and / or teacher than the system.

Respectfully,
Marlon


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## marlon (May 18, 2009)

Danjo said:


> People trained harder in the "old" days. I'm not saying that they were more _athletic (_people do amazingly acrobatic things these days), but it was harder contact and the mentality was different. Whether it was Shotokan, TKD, Shaolin Kempo etc., schools were where fighters trained, they weren't a health club. So I have no doubt that your training has served you well and that your loyalty is justified. But we'll continue to point out the facts as we know them.
> 
> To me lineage isn't "everyone that I ever learned something from". If that were the case, then I could list a ton of martial artists that I'd met at seminars, belt tests, trained with in PE classes (took Aikido in PE in college), etc. To me lineage is the instructor that you earned your rank from, not the one who awarded you some rank in consideration for what you already knew. I feel badly for those that trained in SKK in the old days who have to put up with what has happened commercially in the system. I also feel badly for those that currently train in SKK under someone who is legit now, and trains like they used to.


 
So well said, sir.  I thank you for your integrity and honesty.  hopefully, yourself and those of us who think along the same lines can find way to inspire a greater return to the positive aspects of the early days of training.

Respect,
Marlon


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## Danjo (May 18, 2009)

marlon said:


> So well said, sir. I thank you for your integrity and honesty. hopefully, yourself and those of us who think along the same lines can find way to inspire a greater return to the positive aspects of the early days of training.
> 
> Respect,
> Marlon


 
Thanks for the kind words. 

We still train like they used to. Kajukenbo has never been commercial and so the level of training has stayed pretty consistent over the years. With us, it's the exceptions that don't train hard rather than the rule. Given that, we don't retain very many students and Prof. Bishop only makes enough money from teaching to get a little fishing gear or maybe some ammo for hunting.

We may not look the prettiest in terms of forms etc. as a group (there are some that look excetionally well and compete), but we're some roughneck mothers, and those that aren't don't last beyond the first sparring class.

You'll just have to blame that attitude on Sijo Emperado. He always wanted to see the gi's messed up, soaked in sweat and at least a little blood spilled before training was over.

We're always happy to oblige.


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## LawDog (May 19, 2009)

Shaolin in the original SKK, there was none.
On my first USSD patch there was no "Shaolin Kenpo / Kempo. The first "Shaolin Kenpo" patch came out during the mid 70's followed by a "Shaolin Kempo" patch. The Bruce Lee craze and the Kung Fu series made the term "Shaolin" very marketable.
In my first USSD instructors booklet, very early 70's, there was no mention of Hansuke. A few years later I was given another instructors booklet, in this booklet the words, #6 Kata, Shodanqua, (as spelled) and Hansuke, had been hand written in.
I was first taught "Shodanqua" around 73 ish and then Hansuke a year or so later. 
During the early 70's we were taught what all of the early USSD staff was trained in, SGM Cerios system. Later on both GM Cerio and the USSD change the system from top to bottom.
I did not train under GM Cerio directly but I did attend many of his seminars and met him on many occasions at a martial arts supply store that was located in Rhode Island, it is called "Ninja World". When I did see him at this store he was very open and candid about things. I will go into this area at another time because dinner is waiting.


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## amcgroup (May 22, 2009)

So much confusion. I strongly agree that the use of the term "Shaolin" was utilized as a marketing ploy to captialize on the kung fu craze at the time but I'm not sure if it happened at all the studios at the same time.

I began training at the Dedham, MA. studio in the mid-seventies directly under Mr. Bryant and Mr. Villari, eventually working there as a fulltime instructor.

All of my promotion certificates up to Shodan, which I have, state my ranking was in "Chinese Kenpo", which was what the art was always referred to during my time there.

I am not disputing anyones else recollection of events at their dojo's, I just don't know how uniformly things were done at every studio.

In the early 1980's I recieved a BB ranking which now called the system "Shaolin Kempo". under the USSD banner prior to Mr. Villari creating his "own" system.

Mr. Cunningham and Mr. Shuras are both my seniors with more experience I'm just relating what I know went on at the Dedham studio during that time period.

I think we all agree the infamous Shaolin title was used for business which was the beginning of the downfall for the credibility of the system. 

The original style, descended from Cerio-Pesare-Gascon-Emperado and Chow, all called by different names, was a complete SD style that works. I don't know whats gone on since but my experience with the Villari students of today has not been good.


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## Danjo (May 22, 2009)

amcgroup said:


> The original style, descended from Cerio-Pesare-Gascon-Emperado and Chow, all called by different names, was a complete SD style that works.


 
Prof. Chow's Kenpo/Kempo changed and evolved a lot over the years until his death. It was never systematized by him, but at the time that Adriano Emperado trained it was a pretty linear system with a lot of rapid-fire strikes to vital areas.

Sijo A.D. Emperado formed Kajukenbo with four other martial artists in the late 1940's and it was and is substantially different than Prof. Chow's Kenpo. In fact, it's not really Kenpo, although it does have a lot of Kenpo concepts and elements in it.

Gascon was a student of John Leoning. Leoning was a brown belt in Kajukenbo when he came out to California in the 1950's and opened a school. Gascon left training with him before he reached black belt and started teaching on his own with the help of a Kajukenbo black belt named Walter Godin. They called their art Karazenpo and had a school for a while.

George Pesare trained with Gascon for a few of months (the story varies from 3 months to 6 months depending on who's telling the story, Gascon said it was three months) and Pesare got to purple belt and then moved back to the East Coast (RI) and started teaching there what he called "Kenpo". He later earned black belts in TKD and Judo and formed his art of "TKD-Kenpo" which has changed names several times over the years.

Cerio was a student of Pesare and got his black belt from him. Cerio later cross-trained with various other martial artists and later left the Pesare system and formed his own that he called "Nick Cerio's Kempo".

Villari, trained under Cerio while he was still teaching what he'd learned from Pesare (as wittnessed by the early Pesare footage). Villari got to 2nd degree and then left Cerio to start his schools and system of what eventually became Shaloin Kempo Karate.

Mattera trained under Villari to 7th degree, then broke off from him in the late 1980's and started the USSD teaching the same system of SKK he got from Villari (I have the entire curriculum on video from both and it's the same stuff).

SKK has exactly one-half of one technique that is the same as Original Method Kajukenbo (SKK Combo #4 and Kajukenbo Punch Counter #6). That's how much of Kajukenbo ended up in SKK. This was due to Pesare's only being a purple belt when he quit training and the fact that Gascon and Godin had already changed the Karazenpo curriculum from Kajukenbo before Pesare trained with them.

Pesare was/is a creative guy. He pretty much created his own system from only a small handful of techniques. I have said for a long time that he should be considered the true root of the SKK system, since it was all pretty much built on his foundation.

Going back to Emperado and Chow is merely an academic excercise since very little of what they taught is left in SKK and nearly everything Pesare taught Cerio is there still. Pesare seems to get short changed IMO.


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## Senjojutsu (May 23, 2009)

amcgroup said:


> So much confusion. I strongly agree that the use of the term "Shaolin" was utilized as a marketing ploy to captialize on the kung fu craze at the time but I'm not sure if it happened at all the studios at the same time.
> 
> I began training at the Dedham, MA. studio in the mid-seventies directly under Mr. Bryant and Mr. Villari, eventually working there as a fulltime instructor.
> 
> ...


Hello,

Your post caused me the interest to dig out my old rank certificates while I trained out of Quincy signed by Freddy J&#8230;. I mean &#8220;By the Supreme Authority of: President Frederick J. Villari&#8221;.

My very first certificate, issued in January 1981 read &#8220;United Studios of Self Defense&#8221;.

The very next one in March 1981, and all subsequent certificates I received, then read &#8220;Fred Villari&#8217;s Studios of Self Defense&#8221; and countersigned by Director Charles Mattera - with the exact words, with a minor different font, and the fist image within the Shaolin Kempo Karate seal slightly modified.

I do see my first certificate was countersigned by Director Arthur Singer. Anyone know what happened to Art Singer? I mean I never met the man, just curious. 

FWIW, I have always wondered (with my corporate word experience) the logic behind rebranding a company&#8217;s name. Often rebranding is the empty suit CEO&#8217; s answer &#8220;to rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic&#8221;&#8230; as in nobody is buying our lousy products - so let&#8217;s change our name to justify my existence. In the large corporate world renaming costs are simply amazing, it&#8217;s a lot more than just reordering stationary. 

But in this case I know Freddy&#8217;s empire was still growing robustly at least during the early 1980s - before all the defections started. But it would be interesting if anyone would have the exact timeline on when the &#8220;Shaolin Kempo Karate&#8221; imprimatur was introduced into his system. Perhaps after a certain TV Series Pilot movie was broadcasted on Sunday night, 02/22/1972?


I do know that phrase &#8220;Shaolin Kempo Karate&#8221; so annoyed the traditional CMA people back in the day. Now looking at it (culturally) there is so much wrong with it. As in saying I&#8217;ll have a me a &#8220;British Croissant&#8221; and some &#8220;French Borsht&#8221; for breakfast. But then at least Mr. Villari, to my knowledge, never named himself a "Soke&#8221;.


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