# Should local schools test up to first dan?



## Guro Harold (Apr 20, 2005)

Should local schools have the power and authority to rank up to first dan? What are the advantages to central as compared to local control in this matter?


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## Andrew Green (Apr 20, 2005)

It's all just money and control...


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## MJS (Apr 20, 2005)

Palusut said:
			
		

> Should local schools have the power and authority to rank up to first dan?



Currently in the IMAF, students can test up to 2nd Brown at their school.  Anything after that has to be done at a camp.  I say keep it as it is.  Once you start reaching the advanced levels, its good to get out there and meet the higher ups in the art, as well as get the experience of the camp itself, as well as having the cahnce to work with a wide variety of people with different skill levels.




> What are the advantages to central as compared to local control in this matter?



As I said above, it gives the student a chance to get out and see a variety of different things out there.  It also gives the heads of the org. the ability to see who is testing for Black or the various ranks of Black.  Speaking for me, I think its a great honor and feeling to be able to test in front of the upper ranked teachers.


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## Dan Anderson (Apr 20, 2005)

In most other martial arts types, the instructor can rank students one dan grade below his own so I don't see any problem with a 2nd dan (lakan dalawa) ranking a student up to 1st dan (lakan isa).

Yours,
Dan Anderson


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## Cebu West (Apr 20, 2005)

I think allowing local instructors to promote to within one rank their own opens the door for promoting for the wrong reasons. Money, favors you name it. We've all seen it before. 
You also lose quality control. 
It is also more satisfying when your promotion comes from the head of your system.

Sal    :asian:


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## arnisador (Apr 20, 2005)

This is true...it was great to be promoted by the Professor, and now my last promotion came directly from Mr. Hartman. When I studied Karate styles, I'd have to do some research to even learn who it was that headed the system!


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## dearnis.com (Apr 21, 2005)

The idea taht everyone should test in front of Professor was a perfectly valid; but that time is, sadly, past.  I was brought up with the limit being that a black belt could promote to half their holding rank- ie a 4th could promote up to 2nd dan.  I am not sure where I really stand on that now, but I am no fan of the "you must test before the master" theory either.  Too often abused and too often about money.


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## Datu Tim Hartman (Apr 21, 2005)

Im getting ready for my seminar in Chicago this weekend so Ill keep this brief. In the WMAA we have four levels of grading officers that can promote on their own. The levels and grading restrictions are as follow:

Level 1: Antas Anim (purple belt)

Level 2: Likha Tatlo (3rd brown)

Level 3: Lakan / Dayang Isa (1st black)

Level 4: Black Belt one below your own rank.

And yes we have two Level 3 officers at the moment with more to be added in the next couple years. There are some restrictions which I can get into after this weekends seminar. 

  :asian:


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## Dieter (Apr 22, 2005)

Hi,

here ein Germany with the DAV we have the following rules:

we have 5 student levels (white, yellow, green, blue and brown). Then the Lakans and Dayangs, no probationary black belt.

Gradings are always done on semniars and the examination dates have to be published in the internet at least 4 weeks before the date.

We have about 10 examiners, that are allowed to exame from white to blue belt. They must be at least Lakan/Dayang Tatlo, 3rd Dan.

We have 5 full examiners, that are allowed to rank up to brown belt.

Black belts exams are only 2 or 3 times a year and it has to be in front of a commission, that consists out of at lease 3 full examiners. 

This way we try to prohibit these black belt examinations for "wrong reasons".


Regards from Germany



Dieter Knüttel
DATU of Modern Anris


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## Mark Lynn (Apr 22, 2005)

Depends

Basically I think it depends upon what the parent organization standards are and you should follow that.  And different organizations have different rules governing rank promotion.  So in the MA world what ever the organization you belong to says than that should be what you do.

However as a general rule of thumb if I were conducting a BB test then I would have different/guest instructors on the board examing anyone whom I wanted to promote.  And they should be of higher rank than the person testing at least 2nd if not 3rd degrees.  A guest instructor even if they don't know your system can generally tell and give an honest assesment of the canidates skill level.  

If you are a small time instructor and your student is ready to test then I believe you should try and get some peers (other instructors) to examine them.  Especially if you in a pretty standard system (Karate/TKD etc. etc.).  

However in MA where there are governing bodies and you are teaching a version of MA then I would think you as the instructor should plan with the student to attend a camp seminar etc. etc.  Enquire to the governing board of the organization to see what you need to do to get your student ready for their test, and see about testing him that way.  If the student wants to test that is.  And if they just want to test under you (and you are an independent) since your their instructor then set up a good test with some local guest instructors and go that route.

Mark


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## Han-Mi (Apr 23, 2005)

Cebu West said:
			
		

> I think allowing local instructors to promote to within one rank their own opens the door for promoting for the wrong reasons. Money, favors you name it. We've all seen it before.
> You also lose quality control.
> It is also more satisfying when your promotion comes from the head of your system.
> 
> Sal :asian:


I should hope that an instructor would not send someone out to teach their own school if they believed that without constant supervision would give up on what he/she learned and give rank for money instead of skill.


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## Mark Lynn (Apr 23, 2005)

Han-Mi said:
			
		

> I should hope that an instructor would not send someone out to teach their own school if they believed that without constant supervision would give up on what he/she learned and give rank for money instead of skill.



I think most of us would agree that we wouldn't hope an instructor would do this but sadly I've seen the case where an instructor starts a school and then sells it to a student (who is all of the sudden promoted up some ranks) as the head instructor moves on pocketing the cash.  And then repeats the process again in another town.

Mark


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## Guro Harold (Mar 2, 2011)

This poll was truly 50/50.


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## Mass (Mar 28, 2011)

I say the instructor should be able to test up to 1st dan without any oversight from any board. After 1st dan then have the board watch, test and grade student. I am lucky enough to train directly under my Professor/Hanshi a few times a week, so I do have the top of the top in my style with me all the time.


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