# Pyung Ahn Oh Dan



## agemechanic03 (Jul 23, 2007)

Ok...So I've been on Pyung Ahn Oh Dan for a couple of weeks now, a hard, but FUN hyung that I really enjoy studying. I do have one problem with the Hyung that I can't get down to well and I imagine you all that have done this hyung know what I am talking about. The movement is when you turn around to go back towards the north and you have to JUMP up and turn 180 and land with your feet crossed but at the same time get as low as you possibly can. Just curious if anyone has any kind of good practice advice on it. Right now, when I get a chance, my instructor has me take one of those 3 section mats and make a triangle and jump over that over and over. Any new advice would be greatly appreciated.

Tang Soo!!!


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## Tez3 (Jul 23, 2007)

Aaargh! it's the nightmare move! It's also in the corresponding Wado kata and it's taken me years to learn to do it, the problem I have now is teaching it. The only thing I can suggest is that you go from landing into the double block as quick as you can as it keeps your balance, if your instructor allows you to do this. I'm afraid though it's a practice thing as you are doing.


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## Makalakumu (Jul 23, 2007)

Break the move down and practice steping into it when your right post leg comes out of hu gul jaseh.  Once you can step into it, add a little hop and then just make the hop bigger and bigger.


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## JT_the_Ninja (Jul 23, 2007)

Ah, this is a fun hyung, and a fun move. 

My advice is to do exactly the opposite of Tez3's advice, at first. Practice it slowly, in this order:

(1) From the two-fisted block/uppercut in hugul jase, snap both fists to your right hip, right on top, while you simultaneously bring your left knee straight up to your chest. Practice this part especially, making sure you get the snap before you go any further. Also practice standing in this position for more than a second or two, just to work on balance. Keep your right knee slightly bent -- in other words, don't stand up or raise your body _at all_ from your hugul jase. 

(2) Once you have that part down, continue to the next part: slam your left foot back down into the ground, propelling yourself upward as you bring up your right knee, all the while keeping your hands at your hip in the same position. You shouldn't be going forward more than a front-stance length or two; too much forward momentum will throw off your balance, and you want to use gravity here anyway. When you land, land with just your right foot. Your right foot should be pointed slightly to your relative left, at about a 45-degree angle off the direction of your previous motion. Again, don't have your right knee locked out; keep it slightly bent, for balance. Stop here, just after you've landed on your right foot, and practice up to there a few more times.

(3) After you have all that down comfortably, add the last part. Your hands are still at your hips, and you're balancing on your right leg. From here, just drop your left leg down behind your right one so that your left shin touches your right calf and your left foot is directly behind your right one, pointing straight towards what was your left when you started. Get that position first, both your knees still slightly bent.  

(4) Now, pivoting back your right hip slightly, snap your hands down into a low x-block in front of your right knee, dropping your butt straight down, your back straight, your knees bending low. You're sitting down, basically. Your right arm should be on top of your left. Also, your right foot may pivot so that it's facing in the same direction as the left, so they're in alignment. You can try landing it that way, but it might be a bit more awkward, and you'll lose some snap. Practice (3) and (4) a few times, from set down to snap, until it's all comfortable.

(5) Now go back to the uppercut in hugul jase and do (1) through (4), this time making the left foot and the block land *simultaneously*( <-- important ). Remember to keep your back straight, getting low by bending your knees and dropping your butt as opposed to bending forward. It should be pretty comfortable, for a few moments, at least. Keep practicing it until it's all fluid. 

I'll post a video of this as soon as I can, if it'd help anyone, and if none of my seniors in TSD don't have one readily available. 

Tang Soo!


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## Tez3 (Jul 24, 2007)

Er, I only said go from the landing to the double forearm fast! 
I can't do that bit slowly as my balance is flawed due to a medical condition so that's the easiest way, plus a lot of my fellow students adopted it as we are elderly lol!
I know exactly how to do it.........in my head! it's the body that has trouble.


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## JT_the_Ninja (Jul 24, 2007)

@Tez3: I was speaking more in agemechanic03's direction, but do whatever helps you do the move. 

And I know exactly what you mean about knowing it in your head. That's what makes it so difficult to explain in words; you come to know it more by muscle memory than terminology.


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## Catalyst (Jul 25, 2007)

JT the Ninja,
Thanks for the detailed breakout (above).  This is the new hyung that I'm learning and your step-by-step guide helps very much.  Thank you for taking the time to share this with us.

p.s. any links to a video to show this would be very much appreciated.


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## crushing (Jul 25, 2007)

Catalyst said:


> JT the Ninja,
> Thanks for the detailed breakout (above). This is the new hyung that I'm learning and your step-by-step guide helps very much. Thank you for taking the time to share this with us.
> 
> p.s. any links to a video to show this would be very much appreciated.


 
Try this one:

http://mchenry.homeip.net/TangSooDo/forms/


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## Makalakumu (Jul 25, 2007)

Here is a good thread on bunkai for this form...

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29375

This is a video of me performing the form...

http://www.martialtalk.com/videos/jk_pyungahnodan.avi


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## JT_the_Ninja (Jul 26, 2007)

@crushing: I wouldn't recommend _anything_ by "Master" MacHenry. 

@upnorthkyosa: Good video, but at the move in question here, the jump, you landed with both feet at the same time, already crossed, so it doesn't illustrate the move very well.

Unfortunately, I can't find any decent vids on either YouTube or Google video. I'll do some more looking later, I guess, or get off my lazy behind and make a vid myself :þ

Tang Soo!


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## crushing (Jul 26, 2007)

JT_the_Ninja said:


> @crushing: I wouldn't recommend _anything_ by "Master" MacHenry.
> 
> @upnorthkyosa: Good video, but at the move in question here, the jump, you landed with both feet at the same time, already crossed, so it doesn't illustrate the move very well.
> 
> ...


 
JT,

How shall I put this.  We don't do it quite like Mater McHenry either, but it was the only free video I could find.

I look forward to your posting of the vid!  Thanks!


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## agemechanic03 (Jul 26, 2007)

*Remember Guys, we all do the forms a lil different from each other*. UpNorths and Master Macs Vid both have a few diff things than what I do. I'm in Korea being taught by a Korean Master and MBuzzy just left here and is back in the states and they use a lot of different stances in there forms too. Just remember they are not all the same. I will say this tho, Master Macs is the closest to the way my forms are done.


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## MBuzzy (Jul 26, 2007)

agemechanic03 said:


> *Remember Guys, we all do the forms a lil different from each other*. UpNorths and Master Macs Vid both have a few diff things than what I do. I'm in Korea being taught by a Korean Master and MBuzzy just left here and is back in the states and they use a lot of different stances in there forms too. Just remember they are not all the same. I will say this tho, Master Macs is the closest to the way my forms are done.


 
That is a GREAT point.  Even though we are all Tang Soo Do or Soo Bahk Do, many minor differences have evolved in different organizations and forms.  I can definately attest to this as I have been through 4 different organizations' schools - and everytime I go somewhere else, they are showing me a new place to put my hands for prep movements or minor differences in hyung.  It all boils down to the same stuff and the same basis, but there are minor differences.

Also - lets all try to keep in mind that if we evaluate another person based solely on OUR school's way of doing things, they may not be exactly right, but if they are evaulated in their school, they may be perfect.


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## agemechanic03 (Jul 27, 2007)

MBuzzy said:


> Also - lets all try to keep in mind that if we evaluate another person based solely on OUR school's way of doing things, they may not be exactly right, but if they are evaulated in their school, they may be perfect.


 
Hit the nail on the head Cap.

JT--you can still post the vid too, it's nice to see how other schools do their forms.

I'll try this week and see what I can do with video tape on how we are instructed here in Korea!

TANG SOO!


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## agemechanic03 (Jul 27, 2007)

UpNorth...I watched your vid once again on this Hyung. I can land the jump everytime no problem the way you land it. My instructor has me sitting up as straight as possible. I can land it, but have to move very quickly and usually looks like crap. He also has us getting lower too. Like I said in my last post, I will try and get a vid of myself doing this hyung.


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## Makalakumu (Jul 27, 2007)

This move was always a complete conundrum to me because I could never figure out exactly what it was used for.  Then, I started training jujutsu and an old throw popped back into my mind.  The move immediately preceeding the jump looks awefully like hani goshi or the spring hip throw.  

Which would mean that the jump is meant to land on a downed opponent.  Not neccessarily exactly in the way that it is shown in the form, but using some combination of hands and feet.  

Another thing to keep in mind is that Itosu designed these forms so that moves had three purposes.

1.  They were showing actual self defense moves.
2.  They portraying self defense principles.
3.  They were meant to increase physical fitness.

This move could be very heavy on 2 and 3, but less so on 1.


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## Yossarian (Jul 27, 2007)

Ive noticed similar things since taking up Judo. You could follow up the hip throw by applying a Dobok(Gi) choke(low x block) and im sure ive seen someone use the crossed legs as a choke on the downed opponent too. You dont have to do the jump, you can just step instead. Ive also seen the moves before the jump used as a neck break/crank. 

agemechanic03 just wait untill you learn Bassai(usually comes after Oh dan) it has some of the same moves and most TSD folks will start doing Oh dan half way through Bassai.


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## agemechanic03 (Jul 27, 2007)

Yossarian said:


> agemechanic03 just wait untill you learn Bassai(usually comes after Oh dan) it has some of the same moves and most TSD folks will start doing Oh dan half way through Bassai.


 
I am looking forward to Bassai, but once I get Oh Dan down, then I can start the study of Bassai  but I completely understand. I'm not ready, then I'm not ready.


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## agemechanic03 (Jul 28, 2007)

So I worked on Pyung Ahn Oh Dan a lil bit today. And after try after try after try, it's getting better. Today I actually landed the jump, sat there for a sec then came up and that's where I messed it up b/c i didn't get a good footing...Hahaha...typical of me. I did record it, but the lighting in the gym was bad, so I'll try to redo it tomorrow when I get out of church. Hopefully will have it up tomorrow when you guys wake up!


Tang Soo!!


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## JT_the_Ninja (Jul 30, 2007)

Cool. Practice always precedes improvement. 

Tang Soo!


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## mssg2laura (Nov 9, 2008)

Try lifting your left foot slightly and then using it as a springboard (pressing it hard into the floor) to launch your jump. For some reason when I tried this it not only improved the height of my jump but my ability to land lower to the floor. If jumping in general is an issue I would suggest jumping onto a step/platform about 1 foot off the ground (a set of 15 slow jumps focusing on a light landing, and a set of 15 fast jumps with no pause in between). Jumping rope will also help with coordinating your jumps. Keep practicing - you will succeed!


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## Dana (Nov 9, 2008)

I do not know if you are still interested in advice, but simply go for height and not for distance.  This way you do not have excessive forward movement off your dan jon.

Dana


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## Montecarlodrag (Nov 10, 2008)

I think he's Cho Dan by now


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## foggymorning162 (Nov 10, 2008)

Montecarlodrag said:


> I think he's Cho Dan by now


 Just a question because every organization is different. What rank do you learn Pyung Ahn Oh Dan at? For us it is a requirement to go from 4 gup green to apprentice red.


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## DMcHenry (Nov 10, 2008)

I agree with Dana - more height over distance should help.

I teach pyungahn ohdan at 3rd gup.


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## Makalakumu (Nov 10, 2008)

The kind of jump you do, really depends on what you are using it for.  The move directly before it can be interpreted as a throw, so the jump could be used to jump on someone.  Also, the crossed legs and hand position could indicate chokes or locks of some kind.  In both of these scenarios, the jump is going to be different.


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## agemechanic03 (Nov 10, 2008)

Hehe...Yes, I have since then recieved my cho dan, but new advice is ALWAYS accepted. You never know till you try. Personally, I prefer height over distance, I can control the landing SOOO much better. I have a tendancy to tip over and look sloppy if I go for distance. Thanks!!!


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## Montecarlodrag (Nov 10, 2008)

foggymorning162 said:


> Just a question because every organization is different. What rank do you learn Pyung Ahn Oh Dan at? For us it is a requirement to go from 4 gup green to apprentice red.


 
Oh Dan is required to go from 3rd Gup (brown) to 2nd Gup (red).
It is also required to know Bassai So and 7 kichos.


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## Montecarlodrag (Nov 11, 2008)

agemechanic03 said:


> Hehe...Yes, I have since then recieved my cho dan, but new advice is ALWAYS accepted. You never know till you try. Personally, I prefer height over distance, I can control the landing SOOO much better. I have a tendancy to tip over and look sloppy if I go for distance. Thanks!!!


 
I have never found much sense in that movement (jump, block high, then land and block low with both hands while you're almost on your knees with feet crossed).

We blackbelts sometimes practice it with a low punch when landing instead of blocking. The punch is with left fist, right fist is retracted, something like a Ha Dan Kong hyuck. It is harder to keep balance, but it looks way better on tournaments and seems a lot more practical.
The highest you jump, the lowest you land and the better you keep balance, the better it looks. It looks yet better if you keep the low position for a second (without losing balance) before resuming. It helps to show you have absolute control of the hyung.


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## Lynne (Nov 12, 2008)

agemechanic03 said:


> Hehe...Yes, I have since then recieved my cho dan, but new advice is ALWAYS accepted. You never know till you try. Personally, I prefer height over distance, I can control the landing SOOO much better. I have a tendancy to tip over and look sloppy if I go for distance. Thanks!!!


 
Last night, we were told we must sit on our heel when we land.  I had never gone down that far.  I guess the instructors wait until we can land without falling over before they tell us we need to go all the way down!


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## Montecarlodrag (Nov 13, 2008)

Lynne said:


> Last night, we were told we must sit on our heel when we land. I had never gone down that far. I guess the instructors wait until we can land without falling over before they tell us we need to go all the way down!


 
That is a common practice when you don't have the neccesary leg strenght, you can sit on your heel to help you land without falling or losing balance.
It's easy to notice for a trained eye when you don't have strong legs, but for everybody else, it looks ok.
Once you have developed stong legs you can do the position as it should be and hold it for a split second (it looks better).


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## Lynne (Nov 13, 2008)

Montecarlodrag said:


> That is a common practice when you don't have the neccesary leg strenght, you can sit on your heel to help you land without falling or losing balance.
> It's easy to notice for a trained eye when you don't have strong legs, but for everybody else, it looks ok.
> Once you have developed stong legs you can do the position as it should be and hold it for a split second (it looks better).


 I'm finding it harder to sit on the heel than not.


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## bluemtn (Nov 13, 2008)

I did this form in TKD, and found the balance after I land to be a bit hard.  I just started kind of easing my way down slow at first, until I got the feel, and then pretty soon I didn't have a problem in the landing.


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## JT_the_Ninja (Nov 14, 2008)

My biggest tip is not to try to land both feet at the same time. Just take it step-by-step:

(1) Both hands come down to right hip as left knee comes up.
(2) Push off with left foot; hands stay at right hip.
(3) Land with right foot; hands are still at right hip.
(4) Set down left ball of foot just behind and to right of right foot. Don't have them too far apart. Keep all your weight over your right foot. 
(5) Rotate hips as you force your fists down in the blocking motion (which, of course, could be other things, but for the sake of description...) and bend both knees. Keep your back straight...do not lean over, as this will cause you to tip. Your weight should stay over your feet. Most of your weight should still be on your right foot, with the left there for more balance. This can be done simultaneously (or near-simultaneously) with step (4), but practice with a pause first, so you don't rush the movements. If you try to slur it all together, you stumble. 

Tang Soo!

Btw, should we merge the two threads on this topic?


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