# Grappling and kneeinjuries



## kONG (Sep 29, 2005)

Hello everyone!
This great mma center just opened near where I live, and I was thinking about taking grappling classes there, either bjj or submission wrestling.  
My question is I have had some pretty serious surgery to my knee, Im not certain about the english terms, but the meniscula is removed, and the posterior ligaments (?(Ligamentum cruciatum posterius) has been reconstructed with material from the hamstring 
So I was wondering is it any idea at all to do grappling, or is that just going to mess me up even more, are knee injuries common in bjj or other grappling systems?
Im in pretty good shape, Ive been recovering training hard for a little over two years, and I have aaaalmost complete range of motions and no pain normally. 
Id appreciate any advise from you guys!
Thank you in advance. 
k


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## Andrew Green (Sep 29, 2005)

Well... Ask your Doctor.

 No one on a webforum knows what you're knee should and shouldn't do.

 Chances are if you do train, You are going to want to avoid certain things (Knee locks being an obvious one) and would need to make sure everyone you train with knows that.

 As long as you train safe I don't think it is any harder on your knees then any other sport, most of which involve running and quick pivots that can destroy knees.  Probably want to avoid some things, but if your doc says your clear for it you should be ok, just be careful.


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## hardheadjarhead (Sep 29, 2005)

My understanding--and I could be wrong--is that the PCL ought to be stronger after the surgery.  When they did my ACL last year they used the patellar tendon, and the new ACL is supposed to be 20% stronger than the original.

I wouldn't think the meniscus would inhibit you as long as you avoided those things that aggravate it.

The best thing to do is get a general sense of WHAT they do, and then run it by an orthopod with a background in sports medicine and see what he says.  My guess is you're going to be just fine for most grappling moves...even knee bars and heel hooks.  Just go slow with them and make sure your knee is fully recovered.  

And DON'T hesitate to tap.


Regards,


Steve


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## kONG (Sep 29, 2005)

> Well... Ask your Doctor.


lol I should have seen that coming, of course I have already, Ive had a bunch of consultations with my doctor and physiotherapist, I was just wondering what the actual practitioners point of wiew would be and if anyone have had similar experience. Im pretty much fully recovered, and I train hard in stand up ma systems no problem, full contact sparring, takedowns and throws no problem, Im also relatively young and in good shape, I was really just wondering if there are any special factors or anything related to the groundwork that would cause problems for me, and that Id have to look out for 
Anyways, thx for the replys, Ill probably give it a go just for fun and see how it works out. 
peace!


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## Andrew Green (Sep 29, 2005)

Never allow heel hooks to be done on you when you roll.

 Apart from that, full contact sparring and takedowns are probably as hard on your knees if not harder then ground work.


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## kONG (Sep 29, 2005)

> Apart from that, full contact sparring and takedowns are probably as hard on your knees if not harder then ground work.


cool thats kinda what I was hoping to hear
cheers!


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## Old Tiger (Sep 29, 2005)

I blew out my knee afer the '96 sombo nationals while training. I had a compelte ACL reconstruction using part of my patellar ligament. I also had most of the meniscus on both sides removed and a arthritic growth on my femur removed. I was 42 at the time. It took about 3 years to get it to the point where I could train again. I don't think I can really hurt it but it is always sore. Initially I wore a reinforced brace for a long time. Now I just use a foam brace which I highlly recommend. They keep the knee warm and to be honest it feels better once it gets hot in the kneepad than any other time. Do be careful on heel hooks they are your knee's worst enemy. have fun.


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## arnisador (Sep 29, 2005)

Judo can be hard on th eknees, but you can protect them in BJJ a bit more.

Tap as needed, and bow out if an exercise seems dangerous...but otherwise, if you're medically cleared, go for it!


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## MJS (Sep 30, 2005)

If the doctor says that you're able to resume grappling, then go for it.  If you're still a bit worried, you may consider wearing a brace for some extra support.  Do what you feel comfortable with, and don't be afraid to tap.  Many times you see people who are put into a lock and should be tapping, end up getting hurt because they either waited too long to tap or wanted to try one last time for an escape.  If it means tapping or getting injured or re-injured, I'll pick tapping any day!

Mike


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## arnisador (Sep 30, 2005)

MJS said:
			
		

> Do what you feel comfortable with, and don't be afraid to tap. Many times you see people who are put into a lock and should be tapping, end up getting hurt because they either waited too long to tap or wanted to try one last time for an escape. If it means tapping or getting injured or re-injured, I'll pick tapping any day!


Yes, this is good advice for anyone--maybe more so for the young and uninjured, who sometimes think it's "weak" of them to tap out. Then they lose two months' worth of training time to recovery...

It's been said that in BJJ your job for the first year or so is to tap out. The hope is to make it take the other person longer and longer to get you there!


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## Eternal Beginner (Sep 30, 2005)

arnisador said:
			
		

> *
> It's been said that in BJJ your job for the first year or so is to tap out.* The hope is to make it take the other person longer and longer to get you there!


 The part I bolded is the most important thing to remember!!!! I have found (and I have CRAPPY knees) that BJJ has been the least damaging to my knees compared to the other MA's that I do.

 It can be done safely, and if you have been cleared by your doctor, have strengthened your quads (don't forget to balance your quads with good hamstring exercises) to support your knee you should have a long and happy life ahead of you grappling.

   Good luck and enjoy.

 **EDIT**

 Of course, if you do practice lots of takedowns from standing your knees are at greater risk.  If you do not plan on competing,  you can always start your matches from your knees and not take the risk.  Just a thought.


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## arnisador (Sep 30, 2005)

I have some knee issues and have rarely had problems in BJJ--but we don't do as much by way of takedowns, and often start from the knees in class. (Upper belts do more from standing of course.) But, I haven't had surgery or anything.


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## kempoguy71 (Oct 4, 2005)

I've suffered from various knee injuries since I was a teenager (from competitive soccer and alpine skiing) and have struggled at times when practicing martial arts.

If you've already had knee injuries you could potentially experience some injuries down the road... but in my opinion it greatly would depend on the intensity of training.

Personally I had little to no problems with my previous knee injuries during BJJ/MMA training (which was about a 2 year period) until I tore my patella tendon during a BJJ class a year ago. This was completely unrelated to my previous knee injuries and could have been due to overtraining... 

FWIW, most of the injuries I've seen in grappling has usually been to other parts of your body (fingers / elbows / shoulders in particular).

Just my $0.02.

KG


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