# Why and How Iron Palm.



## Ali Rahim (Dec 2, 2006)

Why Iron Palm? In the early days of Chang San- Feng the great hermit of Chi Kung, a lot of people were weak and sickly. And most of the monks were not able to stand up for a good fight. Chi theory and chi kung or iron palm were not applied to Chinese martial arts until the late Liang dynasty (502-557 A.D.) The monks use to easily break or hurt their hands during training, because of their weak bone marrow and bad blood flow to the hands. Iron palm is in the category of the Wai Dan chi kung, which strengthen the limbs. 

Before you put the hands wash on or dit di jow. You should force the chi to your hand, by putting them in hot water. Try this out; just give your arm one good slap. You may feel a sting in the area of the slap and also a buzzing feeling, that buzzing feeling is chi coming to the rescue of the maybe damage area. And you will have a good buzzing feeling in your hands, when you pull them out of the water, and thats when the dit di jow is applied. 

Well with the dit di jow when you buy it commercially, its never top grade, its sometimes having only half the herbs too make the batch complete. But thats ok if you know the right way to use it, far as preparation. Make sure you never wash your hands with any of type of hand wash. Stop the sink (drain), and stick your hands palm down, on the floor of the sink, then let the water raise up to your wrist or above the wrist, hot water that is. 

And never dry your hand off with anything-just air dry. You do not want to contaminate your dit di jow, because its half grade anyway. If its in a squeeze bottle for commercial sales thats bad, but it doesnt mean you shouldnt buy it, just simply rap the bottle up in some type of rag and put it in a paper bag, and store it a in a dark place for at least 3 months in complete darkness. To give the batch complete darkness for that long it makes the jow ferment like wine, and thats very good. I do recommend finding a glass jar thats big enough to fit at least three fingers in, so two of them can reach the bottom. 

Now when the fingers are wet with dit di jow you rub it around the wrist and the wrist bone, until it become slightly warm and do the same with each finger. And you must wet the two fingers for each application, the hands and fingers, wrists and elbows. My students and I use the 18 toastiest palm formula (dit di jow) which have 28 herbs in all. I teach my students to make it them selfs.

First thing you learn is how to sink your chi while in your stances. I know some of you must be saying what the h*ll is he keep taking about sinking your chi, (meaning calmness or strong root) what if someone runs up to you and throws you a beer and you catch it, would you open it right away, or what? I think you would wait until the contents of the can calms down, for whats inside is very restless. The same goes for the stances (you must uses wide stances of your choice) if you dont sink your chi before hitting the bags, you will cause all kinds of internal problems. 

Because; the shock from striking the bags will bounce back on you. Now when hitting the bags for the first month, bring the striking hand up to collarbone level and drop the hand naturally with no force at all, this is too develop muscle memory and timing for each hand position or strikes that is in your iron palm drill, and at the same time developing chi in the hands or heavy hand development. Oh yeah you must use correct brethren techniques, which I wont go into right at this moment. Now the next month you bring the hands up to your solar plexus and use A little jing when striking, natural movements only. Developing close quarters heavy hand power. The third month do the same by bringing the hands up to the bellybutton, and drop the hand with total shen and jing control. Recommend qualified sifu by your side for the first month of training.

In month three, as you hit the bags with shen & jing control, your strikes should resemble a brick on a string. Picture this; a string tied around your body with a cement block, tied to the other end. When you throw the brick you will feel nothing, until the rope reach the end of the line. Then you will feel a natural jerk to the body. That is called nothing, nothing and sometime. Meaning the hands is nothing until the moment of impact. 

But the question remains. How to Throw? Where the Throw generated. ... And how to control how deep the penetration....

Hitting the bags, as how to throw: first lets start with the height of the table. The table should be at dan tian level, only after you are in your stance (wide stance). So you are standing directly over the bags, while dropping the hands in a very relax but heavy hand kind of way. You focus on Jing & Shen. The throw generates clean through the bag its self. Once you get to a cretin level of iron palm the top of your iron palm table will seem moist & wet, where the chi as generated through the bags. With the three levels of penetration collarbone solar plexus and bellybutton, collarbone: first softness, solar plexus: second soft but yet with heavy hand ness, bellybutton: third with shen & jing. Explosiveness with chi energized muscle.

You will see every thing you need to see, by just hitting the bags correctly through repartition. Must be three kinds of bags, start of with sand for three months, then dry peas or beans, the kind that you buy in a plastic bag, put in iron palm bags three months. Hit the bags until peas or beans are all crushed. The last bag fill with daisy BBs hit for three months. Then you will be complete.


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## Changhfy (Dec 3, 2006)

Thanks again Ali for the great post!

When I have more time Ill list how we train Iron Palm and Iron Shirt in our kwoon.





take care,
Chang


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## Changhfy (Dec 3, 2006)

Hey Ali,

When we train Iron Palm, its similar to what you described.

We start by having the student already practise various sets of internal Qigong before they move on to the Iron Palm training.

The student has to be able to concentrate and move his/her Qi before they are able to start Iron Palm practise.

Then we start the student by hitting a normal sand bag by letting the hands or fist fall and hit the bag. Its important not to use muscle for these exercises.

The next step is to hit wooden benches or sand bags with mung beans.
Also a further note this practise has to be performed slow and will take long periods of time to develop the correct way.

The next step is for the student to hit steel shots or something equivalent in the sand bags, or hit concrete of some type after this is completed.

Also there are further exercises for Iron palm using the urn if you have one.


Our Iron shirt generally starts as most do, with the focus on the dan tien area. And moving Qi to the dan tien this is most important in Iron shirt.

So a basic exercise we start off with is having two people place a pole in the dan tien area of each other and let the dan tien push against the pole and then the partner does the same thing.

THis is just basics but has to be trained for long periods of time before the student moves on to more advanced training.

By the way Ali, you mentioned the type of Jau that you use. 
How does it work for you?



take care,
Chang


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## mantis (Dec 3, 2006)

thanks for the post.  it's really great.
I have concerns though.  What if i do not follow the instructions correctly? how bad will that be?  
I think im not quite sure how to apply the 'dit di jow' or where to get it from, or how to make it. 
the other thing is, what's jing & shen? 
should this be tried without supervision of a senior/instructor?


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## Jade Tigress (Dec 3, 2006)

mantis said:


> thanks for the post.  it's really great.
> I have concerns though.  What if i do not follow the instructions correctly? how bad will that be?
> I think im not quite sure how to apply the 'dit di jow' or where to get it from, or how to make it.
> the other thing is, what's jing & shen?
> should this be tried without supervision of a senior/instructor?




Get the best dit da jow here.


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## tshadowchaser (Dec 3, 2006)

great opening post, thanks.

I'd like to hear more about how people go about there iron palm training


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## mantis (Dec 3, 2006)

Jade Tigress said:


> Get the best dit da jow here.


can you re-post this link? this took me to the 'happy birthday' thread

thanks!


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## PeaceWarrior (Dec 3, 2006)

mantis said:


> thanks for the post.  it's really great.
> I have concerns though.  What if i do not follow the instructions correctly? how bad will that be?
> I think im not quite sure how to apply the 'dit di jow' or where to get it from, or how to make it.
> the other thing is, what's jing & shen?
> should this be tried without supervision of a senior/instructor?



First off, Great post Ali!

Second, my Sifu makes and sells high grade authentic Dit Da Jow (and also many other formulas) with many high quality ingredients shipped from around the world. I can assure you its the real deal and not "half grade" 

if anybody is interested, check the pro shop for a thread called "Dit Da Jow"


Peace

keith


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## mantis (Dec 3, 2006)

let me ask another question.  i remember my sihing mentioning something that you have to drink along with applying the dit da jow stuff.  do you guys know about that? what is it?


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## bcbernam777 (Dec 4, 2006)

mantis said:


> let me ask another question.  i remember my sihing mentioning something that you have to drink along with applying the dit da jow stuff.  do you guys know about that? what is it?



I think from memory there are 3 basic types of dit da jow and one of them is a soupy concoction that can be drunk, can others confirm or deny this


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## Ali Rahim (Dec 4, 2006)

bcbernam777 said:


> I think from memory there are 3 basic types of dit da jow and one of them is a soupy concoction that can be drunk, can others confirm or deny this


 

I think I just bust a kidney, now thats funning is h*ll. Man I just cant stop laughing. I need to go take walk, its 8:30 in the morning here, I better do something before I hurt myself LOLLOLLOL

Ali.


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## Ali Rahim (Dec 4, 2006)

But I think you are right, so let me go do some research.

Ali.


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## Jade Tigress (Dec 4, 2006)

mantis said:


> can you re-post this link? this took me to the 'happy birthday' thread
> 
> thanks!



Sorry about that! Try this.


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## bcbernam777 (Dec 5, 2006)

Ali Rahim said:


> I think I just bust a kidney, now thats funning is h*ll. Man I just cant stop laughing. I need to go take walk, its 8:30 in the morning here, I better do something before I hurt myself LOLLOLLOL
> 
> Ali.



Your a hard man to work out Ali


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## mantis (Dec 5, 2006)

Jade Tigress said:


> Sorry about that! Try this.


thanks! ur the bestest Jade Tigress on MartialTalk!


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## Ali Rahim (Dec 5, 2006)

bcbernam777 said:


> Your a hard man to work out Ali


 
I didnt mean any harm, but the stuff that I always use, witch is a family tradition formula by the Woo family, which was actually formulated by the co-creator of the choy le fot system, the uncle of my teacher (not like thats suppose to mean something), and I use the 18 taoist palm formula also, and they both can actually melt right through a plastic bottle. 

I was told that drinking any dit di jow can burn out the lining of your stomach, and may cause great harm to your organs, maybe theres a new dit di jow I dont know about.

Im sorry I thought you were making a joke, looks like the joke is on me again. 

Ali.


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## bcbernam777 (Dec 5, 2006)

Ali Rahim said:


> I didnt mean any harm, but the stuff that I always use, witch is a family tradition formula by the Woo family, which was actually formulated by the co-creator of the choy le fot system, the uncle of my teacher (not like thats suppose to mean something), and I use the 18 taoist palm formula also, and they both can actually melt right through a plastic bottle.
> 
> I was told that drinking any dit di jow can burn out the lining of your stomach, and may cause great harm to your organs, maybe theres a new dit di jow I dont know about.
> 
> ...



We are cool man, No I actually got it from a book from HK on Iron Palm Training, I think I may still have it somewhere, if I find it I will scan the page on Dit Jow. I know the stuff you're refering to. Sifu just used to use that commercial stuff from HK


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## bshovan (Dec 6, 2006)

Lot of great info here especially from Ali- Thanks.
Just to add a few- on top of soaking hands in hot water I also nuke my little bottle of iron hit wine in the microwave to heat it up. I keep my big batch jar in the dark. Remember not to use plastic containers as certain herbs will react to the plastic.
Another thing from research is that I rub from the finger tips to above the elbows. When doing the all around method I also do it from the kneeling position- keeping hit pad app. 3" below navel.
In the past I have responded to some posts such as this and talked about how true iron palm takes much time. Many want quick results which lead can lead to negs. Hope some of this helps and I look forward to learning from all.

Bill Shovan


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## profesormental (Dec 6, 2006)

Greetings.

Great posts! Good level of exchange, as I hoped!

There is a beverage to release the flow of Qi from impacts, increase the blood flow for healing, etc. for Iron Body, including Iron Palm, training.

It is NOTHING like the Dit Da Jow, and it is sort of like a tea/soup. There are several recipies.

Dit Da Jow, if drunk, can be harmful. Mine is made with vodka to ensure high grade of ethanol, and I've tried several reciepies.

Making your own and leaving it for a few weeks in darkness is so much more effective than buying in plastic containers...

Also, for some reason, "charging" the Dit DA Jow with "intention" has many benefits arising from proven mind/body connection mechanisms. It does make it better.

As a friend of mine said "I know it sounds corny and cliche, but whenever I cook, the most important ingredient for a tasty meal is 'love'!".

Lots to do now. More later!

Enjoy!

Juan M. Mercado


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## bcbernam777 (Dec 7, 2006)

profesormental said:


> Greetings.
> 
> Great posts! Good level of exchange, as I hoped!
> 
> ...



I knew there was something like that


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## Iron Monkey (Dec 7, 2006)

mantis said:


> thanks for the post.  it's really great.
> I have concerns though.  What if i do not follow the instructions correctly? how bad will that be?
> I think im not quite sure how to apply the 'dit di jow' or where to get it from, or how to make it.
> the other thing is, what's jing & shen?
> should this be tried without supervision of a senior/instructor?


My teacher makes it and He got it from one of Grand Master Reeders and Arthur Sikes students  Robert Baker.  It is the best I have ever used and I am not just saying that.  contact me and I can get it for you.  It is very strong and works wonders on anything.


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## Gufbal1982 (Dec 14, 2006)

if you want to check out a really good iron palm DVD, check out Master Tak Wah Eng's.  It's really good.


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## Ali Rahim (Feb 14, 2007)

Here I am using an iron palm strike while on my knees, mostly because of a sprang ankle that I got from running up and down the hills in the park near my neighborhood or just five houses from my home.

Enjoy, 

Ali.


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## Nobody (May 10, 2007)

There are many internal hit medicine which is probably what the book you read was saying bcbernam777.  Like for instance Yunam Baiyao is one of the thing used for the internal hit medicine side.  The thing is it can cause if over used hypersensitivity.  What is in Yunam Baiyao is called miniature ginsing or sanjiao.  There are several other used but they each have major draw backs an if over used can make you sick.  What the external method has on the internal method is that it takes less time but in time the joints are some what injured.  What the internal has on the external is it has less damage to the joints and it take a lot longer(due to using different concoctions an totally understanding what you are feeling after taking each medicine type).  So the internal methods are less used an they have first like a trial period where you would have to first see what each medicine does for you how you feel after taking them.  Internal is slightly more dangerous.    

The thing i have always done after studying for some time now iron kung's is that i always massage the area used to help keep down the joint injury type swelling.  Also do a lot of stretching the tendons to.


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## Touch Of Death (May 11, 2007)

Changhfy said:


> Hey Ali,
> 
> When we train Iron Palm, its similar to what you described.
> 
> ...


Iron shirt?... interesting. We train the Bear Sarker method.
Sean


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## larry (May 11, 2007)

It's for conditioning, for work in all iron body training,  as well as for use on the mook jong. It has an alchohol base.  There is nothing needed to drink,  although it is said to stop internal bleeding,  even though alchohol promotes bleeding.


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## Dale Dugas (May 27, 2007)

bshovan said:


> Lot of great info here especially from Ali- Thanks.
> Just to add a few- on top of soaking hands in hot water I also nuke my little bottle of iron hit wine in the microwave to heat it up. I keep my big batch jar in the dark. Remember not to use plastic containers as certain herbs will react to the plastic.
> Another thing from research is that I rub from the finger tips to above the elbows. When doing the all around method I also do it from the kneeling position- keeping hit pad app. 3" below navel.
> In the past I have responded to some posts such as this and talked about how true iron palm takes much time. Many want quick results which lead can lead to negs. Hope some of this helps and I look forward to learning from all.
> ...



You should never nuke your iron palm jow.  You should heat it up in a small pot of water that is heated and then let your jow heat up indirectly.  

Iron Palm does take a long time.  You should start out with a fixed number of strikes(Many systems will argue about said number) and add a strike every week until you reach 50-100(again depending on your system)

Great thread.  Good to see others out there training in iron skills.


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