# What Do You Think Are The Best Self Defense Weapons?



## StreetReady (Jul 23, 2012)

If you had to carry any weapon for self defense *besides a gun*, what would you use?


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## oftheherd1 (Jul 23, 2012)

First, I think the best weapon is your mind working on getting out of the situation without resorting to violence.

Second, as a Hapkidoist, I would carry a short stick.  It can by used in many defenses and doesn't set of metal detectors.

YMMV


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## oaktree (Jul 23, 2012)

Hi Streetready,
I won't say to much of the obvious like being aware of your surroundings(which is one of the greatest self defense tactic you can arm yourself with)avoiding bad areas etc etc.

Self defense is a pretty wide defination because I think you are more likely to need to defend against flat tires, accidents, emergency situations over someone trying to rob you.

I carry with me a knife, not really for stabbing someone but something to cut a seat belt or cut rope or cloth for first aid. My cell phone and thats about it. 
  My father-in-law in China carries &#20841;&#31680;&#26829; Liang Jie Gun also called Nunchaku, butterfly knife, and a kutoban, he also was in the Republic of China Marine Corp so he can handle himself fine. 

I think carrying any weapon without proper knowledge of use is dangerous, pulling a weapon on someone without the intent on using it might escalate the attacker to use lethal force on you even with your own weapon so something to consider with weapons.


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## Christian Soldier (Jul 23, 2012)

A lot of guys say Nikes are going to be your best ally but Starters from walmart work just as well for half the price. 

The best self defence weapon you have is your mind. The other things you might have in your pockets are just tools that help you survive. Whatever you choose, you will have to train with it, a lot. If it's your bare hands, spend a lot of time in the SD school, or MA school. If it's a knife, see if you can find a knife instructor and practice 'impact drills' often. If it's a gun, expct to spend a lot of time at the range. Money spent on ammo is money well spent. Practice CQB drills as well and drawing from your concealed holster. If you are looking into a gun for SD, I would suggest a light weight Ruger 38. 

The best tool is the one that keeps you alive. The most readily available and effective weapons might be your car, your camp knife, or your hunting rifle; the important thing is to be prepared, and stay alive.


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## StreetReady (Jul 23, 2012)

There's no doubt the human mind is the ultimate weapon in saving yourself. However, as a supplemental tool, ideally, I'd carry a gun everywhere I go. Unfortunately, that's not a feasible option everywhere. 

I think knives are a good weapon to carry but you risk it getting used against you if you have no clue to what you're doing. 

But if you definitely have no options, I think anything can be used as a weapon. Rocks, sticks, pens, even dirt and sand. It all starts with the survival mindset.


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## Tez3 (Jul 23, 2012)

StreetReady said:


> There's no doubt the human mind is the ultimate weapon in saving yourself. However, as a supplemental tool, ideally, I'd carry a gun everywhere I go. Unfortunately, that's not a feasible option everywhere.
> 
> I think knives are a good weapon to carry but you risk it getting used against you if you have no clue to what you're doing.
> 
> But if you definitely have no options, I think anything can be used as a weapon. Rocks, sticks, pens, even dirt and sand. It all starts with the survival mindset.







Always good to watch!


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## Chris Parker (Jul 23, 2012)

Proper training and knowledge of the local laws regarding such things.

To elaborate, the laws in different countries and locations (state to state, for instance) will have different laws regarding weaponry. You may prefer a gun, but you don't have that choice in Australia. Knives, similarly, are a difficult thing to explain (depending on your day-to-day life, and potential reasons for having it), so the first thing is to know what is available to you. 

Next, the greatest weapon in the world is useless if you don't have the proper training to be able to use it. So advising a short stick to someone who's never used such an item is rather pointless. It's a force multiplier, but still needs to be trained properly to really be a reliable weapon for self defence. And, of course, the same goes with the rest of the list.


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## StreetReady (Jul 23, 2012)

Chris Parker said:


> Proper training and knowledge of the local laws regarding such things.
> 
> To elaborate, the laws in different countries and locations (state to state, for instance) will have different laws regarding weaponry. You may prefer a gun, but you don't have that choice in Australia. Knives, similarly, are a difficult thing to explain (depending on your day-to-day life, and potential reasons for having it), so the first thing is to know what is available to you.



Excellent point regarding the law. What types of weapons are typically used in violent attacks in Australia? Are there any statistics on that?


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## Chris Parker (Jul 23, 2012)

There are statistics, if you know where to look. Dominantly knives, bats, sporting equipment (baseball bats, golf clubs etc). Rival gangs have been known to use firearms, but it's not a common weapon in "street" assaults.


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## Bobby135 (Jul 23, 2012)

I would always say that your awareness is best and if you can avoid the situation whether it be running or altogether then you are much better off.  Seeing that we are talking about potential weapons to use if the self defense situation were to arise I have a few points to make.

1. Make sure you have training in whatever it is that you are using
2. Be prepared to use it if need be.  This is especially true when it comes to knives.  Blood is never a pretty site, and cutting someone is very personal and very messy.
3. Make sure it is legal to carry and cannot be considered a weapon that is meant to cause harm.  As I have read, you are better off carrying an item that is useful in day to day business such as a pen or knife that is functional.  If you carry a "tactical weapon" whether it be a knife, pen, flashlight etc... then there is potential that you may not be looked upon favorably in the courts eyes.

As for me, I prefer a very good sturdy pen that is usable in my daily life.  I have a knife (typicallly a leatherman/survival type with multiple tools) and flashlight with me if I am going on trips or anything like that.


I hope that makes sense!!!


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## oftheherd1 (Jul 23, 2012)

Chris Parker said:


> ...
> 
> Next, the greatest weapon in the world is useless if you don't have the proper training to be able to use it. So advising a short stick to someone who's never used such an item is rather pointless. It's a force multiplier, but still needs to be trained properly to really be a reliable weapon for self defence. And, of course, the same goes with the rest of the list.



Since I am the only one who mentioned a short stick, I guess the above is directed at me?  The OP's question was "... what would you use?"  So what would I use?  As I said, as a Hapkidoist, I would use a short stick.  In the Hapkido I learned, we did a lot of short stick defense between 1st and 2nd dan, including for sword defense.  From 2nd to 3rd dan, there was even more training with the short stick.  So if I had to choose a weapon, that is what I would use since I am trained with it.

If others are students of Hapkido, and did not learn that, I would not advise them to try and use it.  But you are correct, no matter the weapon, you should train with it so you can indeed use it effectively.


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## Instructor (Jul 23, 2012)

My favorite self defense weapon is my car followed closely by my cellular phone.  After that, just whatever I can get my hands on.


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## Christian Soldier (Jul 23, 2012)

Instructor said:


> My favorite self defense weapon is my car followed closely by my cellular phone. After that, just whatever I can get my hands on.



I've also heard 'The best knife is the one you have with you' and I think this school of thought applies here. You probably always have your cell phone, which can bring ambulences, cops, and even fire trucks within a few minutes if you live in a residential area. Very usefull tool.

An attack helicopter might be your best tool to survive a fight, but chances are you won't have one with you, nor will you have time to deploy it when attacked. My father considered carrying a fullsize 1911 for awhile but settled on a light weight 38. becuase it's much more comforatable to carry and he'd be more likely to carry it because of that (it's also cheaper if you lose it to the legal system).

It'd be helpfull to know about where you live so we can make a more informed based on your local laws.


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## StreetReady (Jul 23, 2012)

I personally own a Glock Model 23. I love it and take it everywhere I'm allowed to.


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## Chris Parker (Jul 24, 2012)

oftheherd1 said:


> Since I am the only one who mentioned a short stick, I guess the above is directed at me?  The OP's question was "... what would you use?"  So what would I use?  As I said, as a Hapkidoist, I would use a short stick.  In the Hapkido I learned, we did a lot of short stick defense between 1st and 2nd dan, including for sword defense.  From 2nd to 3rd dan, there was even more training with the short stick.  So if I had to choose a weapon, that is what I would use since I am trained with it.
> 
> If others are students of Hapkido, and did not learn that, I would not advise them to try and use it.  But you are correct, no matter the weapon, you should train with it so you can indeed use it effectively.



Ha, no, not directed at you, more at our young thread starter, pointing out that a short stick would be good for you, given your training background, but the reason isn't the weapon, it's the training that you have in using and employing it. I was just using a previously mentioned item, which happened to be a short stick, to make my point about proper training being required.



StreetReady said:


> I personally own a Glock Model 23. I love it and take it everywhere I'm allowed to.



And exactly how does your Glock fit in with your own OP of "any weapon *besides a gun*"..? Not really following your own rules, there....


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## WingChunIan (Jul 24, 2012)

Personally I'm thankful that I live in a country where folks aren't allowed to carry guns and as a consequence gun related violence is restricted mostly to drug gangs and armed robbery. Knife attacks and attacks with improvised weapons are far more common here but would I carry a weapon? simple answer is no. Firstly carrying a weapon in the UK removes any basis for self defence as a defence in court, secondly producing a weapon in a confrontation immediately escalates the situation potentially leading to production / use of more weapons and /or the involvement of more parties (as illustration I was once privy to a little skirmish with about 20 or 30 on each side and not a weapon in sight, after about five or ten minutes of scrapping, a t*%t with a handle bar moustache and long leather coat suddenly produced a carving knife. Within seconds everyone within sight was armed with weapons ranging from knives and bars to house bricks, iron railings and car exhausts!). If i'm out matched or the assailant is armed I will look for something to tool up with but improv' weapons are the only sort I consider.


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## Christian Soldier (Jul 24, 2012)

StreetReady said:


> I personally own a Glock Model 23. I love it and take it everywhere I'm allowed to.



Well then, I'm not a big glock fan but a gun's a gun. Train with it very often (there are many different drills you can do) and take use of professional instruction. If you do that and remain situationally aware, you will be pretty well off.


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## oftheherd1 (Jul 24, 2012)

StreetReady said:


> I personally own a Glock Model 23. I love it and take it everywhere I'm allowed to.





Christian Soldier said:


> Well then, I'm not a big glock fan but a gun's a gun. Train with it very often (there are many different drills you can do) and take use of professional instruction. If you do that and remain situationally aware, you will be pretty well off.



Frankly, I am big on carrying guns.  Even when I carried a gun as part of my daily life, it would not necessarily have been the first thing I reached for.  Now granted, there are times that if you have one, that is the best thing to have in your hand.  

But the problem with guns, is that if you draw a gun, you have no where else to go.  You have to shoot it if you must defend yourself.  You may say you can pistol whip someone, and I guess that is true, but the gun is not designed as a club.  It is designed to forcefully and quickly move a projectile into an opponent, and that is the way it is best used.  I believe a trained MA should be able to, and to seek to, use other defenses in most circumstances.


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## Chris Parker (Jul 24, 2012)

Except the OP states:



StreetReady said:


> If you had to carry any weapon for self defense *besides a gun*, what would you use?



Followed by (the OP themself):



StreetReady said:


> I personally own a Glock Model 23. I love it and take it everywhere I'm allowed to.



Huh?


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## oftheherd1 (Jul 24, 2012)

oftheherd1 said:


> Frankly, I am big on carrying guns. Even when I carried a gun as part of my daily life, it would not necessarily have been the first thing I reached for. Now granted, there are times that if you have one, that is the best thing to have in your hand.
> 
> But the problem with guns, is that if you draw a gun, you have no where else to go. You have to shoot it if you must defend yourself. You may say you can pistol whip someone, and I guess that is true, but the gun is not designed as a club. It is designed to forcefully and quickly move a projectile into an opponent, and that is the way it is best used. I believe a trained MA should be able to, and to seek to, use other defenses in most circumstances.



I don't seem to be able to edit the above post.  What I meant to say was I am *NOT* big on carrying guns.


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## Christian Soldier (Jul 24, 2012)

oftheherd1 said:


> Frankly, I am big on carrying guns. Even when I carried a gun as part of my daily life, it would not necessarily have been the first thing I reached for. Now granted, there are times that if you have one, that is the best thing to have in your hand.
> 
> But the problem with guns, is that if you draw a gun, you have no where else to go. You have to shoot it if you must defend yourself. You may say you can pistol whip someone, and I guess that is true, but the gun is not designed as a club. It is designed to forcefully and quickly move a projectile into an opponent, and that is the way it is best used. I believe a trained MA should be able to, and to seek to, use other defenses in most circumstances.



Yeah totatly agree, the first thing you should reach for should be your wallet and then your cell phone. A gun is designed to be a projectile weapon and it can be used from many ranges. 

 To the OP guy: Honestly, if you've already gotten in the habbit of carrying a gun, just stick with it. You don't want to stop carrying your gun and switch to a neck knife right away because, unless you've completely 'untrained' yourself, you are going to reach for your hip and waste a precious second in a SD scenario. A second that you can't afford to lose. Nothing wrong with just carrying a gun and knowing how to use it.

Any other option is going to be more dangerous for you becaus it either won't be as effective (peper spray for instance), or will require you to be very close to an adreniline filled mad man who is intent on making you 'combat inefective'.

A taser (the shooting kind, don't go with a stun gun) isn't a bad option either, but it has it's disadvanatges just like any other weapon.


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## WC_lun (Jul 24, 2012)

The best weapon to use in self defense is the one you have trained enough in to be very comfortable with...and one you are prepared to be charged with using.


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## zDom (Jul 25, 2012)

So just to clarify, you are talking about practical weapons to have on in hand in a civilized society, right?

Because if not, I'm choosing a spear. Or a sword. Or a bokken. Or a machete.


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## Instructor (Jul 25, 2012)

Come on guys.  Have any of you actually been in a self defense situation?  I have... You just use whatever is at hand.  I've trained in a number of weapons but strangely I didn't have any of them on me when I got attacked.

Heck when I was a cop I carried a sidearm all the time, but never had to use it.


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## Kong Soo Do (Jul 25, 2012)

StreetReady said:


> If you had to carry any weapon for self defense *besides a gun*, what would you use?



A knife;


Doesn't jam.
Doesn't need to be reloaded.
Doesn't misfire.
Is silent.
Can be used as a rescue tool.
Can be used as a survival tool.
Can be used in many everyday functions.


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## monk64 (Jul 29, 2012)

Within the spirit of the OP's question - other than a gun, what would you carry - it would probably be something other than a knife.  Given the choice between stabbing someone and escaping or bashing someone and escaping, I'd choose the latter, because there are likely less legal consequences (regardless of fault).  There's a greater risk of killing someone with a knife.


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## Chris Parker (Jul 29, 2012)

I don't know that I'd agree with any of that, really. For one thing, I don't think many laws differentiate between degrees of lethal force... it's more like, if it's lethal force, it's lethal force. Then, when it comes to there being a greater risk of killing someone with a knife, again, I don't really think that that's the case either. I'll put it this way - when using a weapon, the typical reason is that you're searching (psychologically) for the strongest response you can get, whether it's appropriate or not. And with a blunt instrument, the most common target (for that reason) is the head. That means that the most common injuries from someone just being "beaten" are severe blunt instrument trauma to the head, including things like fractured skulls and major brain injury... whereas a knife, superficial wounds are semi-common. For these reasons, and others, we teach that an opponent armed with a baseball bat is more likely to result in death than a knife-armed attacker.

Really, it'd depend on exactly what your "not a knife" weapon is... and how you're trained in it's use. Something like a security baton, for instance, can still result in some pretty nasty injuries, unless trained specifically to be a measured response. Something like a Kubotan/Yawara won't give you the ability to "bash" the attacker, but also won't allow you to cut/stab them. Of course, you remove any reach advantage a longer weapon would give you as well... so it really does depend on what your talking about.

Bear in mind, I'm not arguing against the idea of "not a knife", just that your reasoning is a little off, from the way it's worded here.


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## chubbybutdangerous (Jul 29, 2012)

Other than my XD carrying several doses of 45acp diplomacy, I always have both some sort of edged weapon, tactical flashlight and a cell phone.  I think all are necessary EDC tools in case of self defense scenario.  Other than that, my favorite weapon is whatever I have in my hand at the time one is needed. But in any case, like someone else mentioned earlier, train, train, train with whatever you use.  I'm just very partial to edged weapons probably because I train/instruct FMA.


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## Aiki Lee (Jul 29, 2012)

I'd probably say a tactical flashlight. You can use it as a kubaton and as a blinding instrument, and most people won't bat an eye over someone carrying a flashlight around as opposed to noticing a knife or some kind of staff.

I prefer a keychain kubaton over a knife for self-defense over a knife and the reason for that is like the flashlight I mentioned above, people aren't immediately concerned if you are holding it in your hand, and I'm more likely to use it than a knife because I'm less concerned over legal issues surrounding its use.


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## geezer (Jul 29, 2012)

WingChunIan said:


> Personally I'm thankful that I live in a country where folks aren't allowed to carry guns ...carrying a weapon in the UK removes any basis for self defence as a defence in court...



This shows how the answer to the question of "what to carry for self-defense" depends heavily on your local environment. Where I live, it is very common for people to legally carry guns and knives, openly or concealed, with no permit required. This directly affects behavior. For example, unarmed individuals, like myself try to avoid honking our horns or making obscene gestures when driving "just in case". No need to end up as another "road rage" victim.



WingChunIan said:


> If i'm out matched or the assailant is armed I will look for something to tool up with but improv' weapons are the only sort I consider.



I love the way you think. It's a personal "game" of mine to try and keep an eye out for potential "improv" weapons wherever I go. Also, I think its a good idea to keep "useful" tools and pieces of sporting equipment handy about the house and in my car. I prefer objects that have a legitimate practical function as well as the potential to serve as weapons of self-defense. That way, if I ever have to use one to defend myself, it's presence would be easy to justify. And, if I don't ever use it as a weapon, at least I can get some practical use out of having it around.

Oh, another thing, I hang with people like "Chubby" from the previous post. He's always sufficiently armed and dangerous enough that I really don't have to worry!


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## WingChunIan (Jul 30, 2012)

Chris Parker said:


> For these reasons, and others, we teach that an opponent armed with a baseball bat is more likely to result in death than a knife-armed attacker.



I don't disagree with the rest of your post Chris, but I personally think you're off the mark with this comment. Most people who attack with bats actually end up aiming at the body and legs rather than the head in my experience. Most bat attacks are viscious and savage but typically leave the victim with multiple broken bones, contusions etc rather than dead. Contrary to what the films would have us believe it actually takes alot to kill someone with blunt force trauma as the body is designed to protect against exactly that kind of impact. Knives on the other hand often result in fatal injury and in many cases it is unintentional. The body is not designed to repel stab wounds and even an initially non fatal blow can be become fatal due to blood loss. Knives are also a hell of a lot harder to see coming and move very quickly and can hurt you at even the shortest of ranges without any build up or chambering making them difficult to defend against. 
I know its off thread  so maybe its worth a thread of its own.


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## jezr74 (Jul 30, 2012)

WingChunIan said:


> I don't disagree with the rest of your post Chris, but I personally think you're off the mark with this comment. Most people who attack with bats actually end up aiming at the body and legs rather than the head in my experience. Most bat attacks are viscious and savage but typically leave the victim with multiple broken bones, contusions etc rather than dead. Contrary to what the films would have us believe it actually takes alot to kill someone with blunt force trauma as the body is designed to protect against exactly that kind of impact. Knives on the other hand often result in fatal injury and in many cases it is unintentional. The body is not designed to repel stab wounds and even an initially non fatal blow can be become fatal due to blood loss. Knives are also a hell of a lot harder to see coming and move very quickly and can hurt you at even the shortest of ranges without any build up or chambering making them difficult to defend against.
> I know its off thread  so maybe its worth a thread of its own.



I think what he means is that in Australia an assailant is less likely to actually use a knife in an attack than a bat. If confronted with someone welding a knife you may be more likely to intimidate and have them back out, than if confronted with someone with a bat and using the same tactics.



Sent using Tapatalk


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## Kong Soo Do (Jul 31, 2012)

Himura Kenshin said:


> I'd probably say a tactical flashlight. You can use it as a kubaton and as a blinding instrument, and most people won't bat an eye over someone carrying a flashlight around as opposed to noticing a knife or some kind of staff.
> 
> I prefer a keychain kubaton over a knife for self-defense over a knife and the reason for that is like the flashlight I mentioned above, people aren't immediately concerned if you are holding it in your hand, and I'm more likely to use it than a knife because I'm less concerned over legal issues surrounding its use.



A tactical flashlight would be a good choice, and can be taken into areas other 'tools' cannot. It also serves more than one purpose, so it is good for a survival tool. Additionally, several varieties have very sharp ends. A Kubaton is a nice tool as well, though it may not go places a flashlight can go.



			
				Monk64 said:
			
		

> Within the spirit of the OP's question - other than a gun, what would you carry - it would probably be something other than a knife. Given the choice between stabbing someone and escaping or bashing someone and escaping, I'd choose the latter, because there are likely less legal consequences (regardless of fault). There's a greater risk of killing someone with a knife.



In regards to the legal issue, it really isn't an issue. Using a 'weapon' in most locals will cause the charge (if any is issued) to become 'aggrivated'. Doesn't matter whether you're using a knife, a bat or a toaster or a car. One cannot say there is a greater risk of death in any particular weapon used. It all depends on too many factors i.e. place of injury/force used/depth of injury/health of individual injured/outside influences.

While a flashlight and kubaton are great choices (I carry both regularly), if it could be ONLY one thing, a knife is a far better choice simply due to the variety of things that can be done with it as I stated above. In this venue, usability is paramont. Normally, I carry my off-duty firearm (Glock 23 .40 S&W), Spyderco Endura serrated clip knife [doubles as a great rescue tool i.e. cuts seat belts etc], Swiss Army knife [McGyver approved], couple of tactical flashlights [one small on keychain], kubaton on keychain and if I have my fanny pack with me I have firesteel, chapstick/cotton balls [some will know what this is useful for], mag bar w/striker, extra LED flashlight, whistle.


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## Chris Parker (Aug 1, 2012)

WingChunIan said:


> I don't disagree with the rest of your post Chris, but I personally think you're off the mark with this comment. Most people who attack with bats actually end up aiming at the body and legs rather than the head in my experience. Most bat attacks are viscious and savage but typically leave the victim with multiple broken bones, contusions etc rather than dead. Contrary to what the films would have us believe it actually takes alot to kill someone with blunt force trauma as the body is designed to protect against exactly that kind of impact. Knives on the other hand often result in fatal injury and in many cases it is unintentional. The body is not designed to repel stab wounds and even an initially non fatal blow can be become fatal due to blood loss. Knives are also a hell of a lot harder to see coming and move very quickly and can hurt you at even the shortest of ranges without any build up or chambering making them difficult to defend against.
> I know its off thread  so maybe its worth a thread of its own.



I'll jump into the other thread, but first a bit of clarification. 

If someone is determined to kill you, a knife is the easier way for them to achieve it. But that's not what makes a knife more potentially lethal when introduced into a confrontation, mainly as there are a large number of attacks with a knife which are little more than superficial (commonly slashing attacks). Baseball bat/impact weapon attacks, on the other hand, from every conversation I've had with emergency workers, police, reading all statistics I've found etc, have a dominant tactic of attacking the head. In that case, if we were to take 10 attacks with a knife, and 10 with a baseball bat (leaving out simple intimidation, although that reduces the numbers for knife even more [not that a baseball bat isn't used for intimidation, just that a knife is far more common that way]), even if we allow a 50/50 split for stabbing versus slashing (which I think is generous to the stabbing attacks), baseball bats would have 7 or 8 out of the ten being strikes to the head. In other words, the attack with a baseball bat itself is more likely to be a potentially lethal attack, as opposed to a knife, which could be a potentially lethal attack, or not. The reasons for this include a knife being used in an offensively "defensive" fashion (which is what slashing is really about, maintaining distance by creating a "barrier" with the moving knife) in quite a number of cases, particularly when the knifeman is unskilled or has a lack of experience/confidence. And, while they can be quite nasty, and potentially deadly (depending on targeting), slashes just don't tend to result in as many deaths (relatively speaking) compared to stabs, or blunt trauma to the skull.

In terms of your experience with people who have been attacked with bats, all I can say is that goes against all other accounts I've come across. A simple google for "Baseball bat injuries statistics" brings up consistent references to "facial injuries, brain trauma, cranial injuries" etc, with this (old) comment being representative of the most common accounts I've come across: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8483176 Note in particular this section:



> Multisystem trauma was documented, with craniocerebral injury being the most frequent, and the most frequent cause of death.


.

In other words, the most common target was the head, and that was the most common cause of death when a baseball bat was involved. It may be important to note that in many cases, the person involved didn't just die on the spot, but may be knocked out, end in a coma, or pass away from injuries over a short time.


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## hechavez (Aug 1, 2012)

I have a purple sash in Choy Li Fut Kung Fu and a blue sash in Tai Chi Chuan Yang.  I am Visayan born in Tampa, Florida, who is !/4 Amoy Chinese,  I have an anting-anting given to me by an ancestral spirit.  It has helped me stay out of serious trouble.  I also walk away from potential confrontations (which used to be more common decades ago).  I also have taken Pangasinan Toledo Eskrima and Eskrima Serrada.  Something like 85% of Filipino martial artists carry a small knife in their pocket.  I have taken several years of Filipino knife training.  My knife (which was a gift to me) has the point rounded off.

First of all, in an actual confrontation, I would use Tai Chi and chi.  It would quickly flow into a blend of Kung Fu and bare-hands Filipino martial arts only if necessary.


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## 72ronin (Aug 1, 2012)

If we were to look at the vast majority of assault (battery/aggravated etc), we would also find overwhelming statistics showing defensive trauma to the forearms from a raised position.
In other words, the head is targeted - resulting in injury to the forearms raised in a defensive position. Generaly, the head is targeted so commonly, you could summise that most attackers almost go tunnel vision for it as a target.
The psychology involved also plays into this. 

I dont carry a weapon (Australia), rarely is there not a weapon available in any given environment/scenario. I would consider a tactical pen or sturdy keychain implement to act as a kobutan type of thing before carrying an obvious weapon. I use clublocks for my vehicles which remain easily accessed while driving etc that kind of thing.
And will typicaly be aware of potential items while walking/jogging and so on - that partialy comes from a multitude of dog attacks actualy lol, while most (for example) dogs will get to a few feet away and snap at you, not entirely commited to making contact, there are quite a few that have not built that psychological barrier and will go for you. 

At this point, being aware of the immediate environment that being - potential weapons and potential threats (Whatever that may be, in this example dog), isnt too far removed from many other type of threats we may encounter imo.

I am ofcourse speaking from the point of view as an Australian, where the law may be quite different from yours. Carrying a weapon here (lets say, a standard folding knife under 3 inches length) and finding cause to use it will get you grilled and you may find yourself being interviewed for potential charges you didnt expect - not advised. 
As always, if your not prepared to fully use it/ face the possible consequences of using it, dont carry it. (thats my legal advice worth about 2 cents lol)
Proceed with caution


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## chinto (Aug 21, 2012)

a good walking stick or a staff.


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## szorn (Aug 25, 2012)

StreetReady said:


> If you had to carry any weapon for self defense *besides a gun*, what would you use?



Whatever I have on my person or within reach is the best self-defense weapon. That said, I am a fan of edged weapons for potential lethal force situations and the use of pens / felt-tip markers for less-than-lethal situations.

Steve


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## szorn (Aug 25, 2012)

72ronin said:


> If we were to look at the vast majority of assault (battery/aggravated etc), we would also find overwhelming statistics showing defensive trauma to the forearms from a raised position.
> In other words, the head is targeted - resulting in injury to the forearms raised in a defensive position. Generaly, the head is targeted so commonly, you could summise that most attackers almost go tunnel vision for it as a target.
> The psychology involved also plays into this.



This is a common physiological response to assault. Even highly trained martial artists will resort to head-hunting under stress (even if that's not how they train) because everyone instinctively knows it's the center of motor-control. It goes back to the research on the reptilian brain. Also, intended victims will instinctively protect the head during assault because they subconsciously know they must remain conscious in order to protect themselves.

Knowing this can actually be advantageous for both offense and defense.




> I dont carry a weapon (Australia), rarely is there not a weapon available in any given environment/scenario. I would consider a tactical pen or sturdy keychain implement to act as a kobutan type of thing before carrying an obvious weapon. I use clublocks for my vehicles which remain easily accessed while driving etc that kind of thing.



Here in the states the tactical pen and kubotan are considered to be unlawful martial arts weapons by some states and jurisdictions. This is why I advocate improvised weapons training, learning to use anything on the person or the immediate environment rather than going out and buying specialized items designed for self-defense that may be frowned upon by law enforcement or in a court of law.


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## zilverkakashi (Mar 31, 2013)

uhmmm i have a small knife as well but i rarely bring it. i only choose to do so if i feel like it... our area is always very dangerous though... but most of the time i choose to bring a normal ballpen (common object) for self defense or a small tactical flashlight.. of course you need to train in a martial art as well just in case... nail cutter sometimes but metal detectors at certain malls can also detect it... so i would go for COMMON OBJECTS like a pen or bag or flashlight etc.


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## aaradia (Mar 31, 2013)

hechavez said:


> I have a purple sash in Choy Li Fut Kung Fu and a blue sash in Tai Chi Chuan Yang. .




At the risk of being too off topic............

You do realize that this means nothing outside of your school, right? I mean, every school has their own sash system and a purple sash in one school might mean intermediate level, while a purple sash in another school - even a CLF school may mean Advanced or beginnning level? 
For others to understand your frame of reference, it might be more useful to mention beginning, intermediate, or advanced. Or maybe years of training instead.

With regards you your statistic on FMAists carrying knives, I respectfully have to ask. How many Filipino martial artists do you personally know? How can you speak for what percentage of all FMAists do what? What do you base this statistic off of? I am curious.


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## Carol (Mar 31, 2013)

A principle in ultralight backpacking is to make sure your base weight (meaning: your non-consumables - things other than food, water, fuel, etc) consists of items which have more than one use.

For self-defense, a similar principle applies.  The more use one can get out of an item, the more likely one is to carry it on an every day basis.


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## zilverkakashi (Apr 1, 2013)

and oh i forgot to mention that i also bring an long umbrella during rainy days as a possible self defense weapon just in case along with a pen


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## RTKDCMB (Apr 1, 2013)

3 things off the top of my head in no particular order.

1) Your mind.
2) Common sense.
3) A good pair of legs for running away.

Also keep in mind that any weapon you use can potentially be used against you.


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## GaryR (Apr 2, 2013)

Some of these others have said.  Of course check your local laws, and aside from your head, shoes, and a firearm;

1) A shooting taser is a good non-lethal option. 

2) An expandable baton, they can give a reach advantage, and unlike say ....a stick, or a baseball bat, can actually be carried unnoticed and not be so cumbersome. 

3) Tactical Flashlight

4) Pepperspray

5) A Benchmade combat blade. 

What you carry, can of course depend where you are going, and what you are wearing.  Keeping all of the above in your vehicle could be a good idea (law permitting of course).  But like others have said, whatever you carry, the training of it's deployment, use, and retention should be extensive. 

G


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## jks9199 (Apr 2, 2013)

GaryR said:


> Some of these others have said.  Of course check your local laws, and aside from your head, shoes, and a firearm;
> 
> 1) A shooting taser is a good non-lethal option.


The only currently available stun gun I'd even begin to consider advising for a civilian is the Taser C2.  Currently, only Taser's products have the Neuromuscular Incapacitation effect of their shaped pulse.  The C2 was designed as a throwaway; deploy it, and while the attacker is incapacitated, you run away.  Even then, it requires an effective deployment and two probe hit under pressure with limited practice.  A Taser isn't a bad thing to have -- but not something I'd heavily encourage, either.


> 2) An expandable baton, they can give a reach advantage, and unlike say ....a stick, or a baseball bat, can actually be carried unnoticed and not be so cumbersome.


Again, we have problems of deploying it under pressure, as well as requiring sufficient room to use it effectively.  And it can VERY easily be lethal force.  It's a freakin' metal pipe, certainly capable of doing "serious bodily harm."  


> 3) Tactical Flashlight


Lights are something I strongly encourage.  They're useful in dark places, they may blind an attacker (if you can lay hands on it, in a functional manner under pressure), and a few are even designed to have some enhancements for self defense.


> 4) Pepperspray


"Piss off juice" is the best name I've heard for OC.  Unreliable, and easily beaten by a determined assailant.  That's if you can even find, grab, and functionally deploy it in the first place.  If I could, I'd take it off my duty gear...


> 5) A Benchmade combat blade.


Knives are useful.  Benchmade are decent, at a good price point -- but far from the only brand worth recommending.  (I'm personally partial to Spyderco, and also their Byrd line.  But that's just my own preferences.)  And I'd encourage a knife that can be easily opened with one hand -- but also is useful as a tool, not merely a weapon.  Also worth mentioning or recalling that a knife automatically means lethal force.


> What you carry, can of course depend where you are going, and what you are wearing.  Keeping all of the above in your vehicle could be a good idea (law permitting of course).  But like others have said, whatever you carry, the training of it's deployment, use, and retention should be extensive.
> 
> G


Practice and training in the use is important.  It's also very important to couple carrying any sort of weapon with training and education on the use of force, and how to articulate your use of force.


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## Instructor (Apr 3, 2013)

I think the best weapon is well trained and disciplined mind and body.  Everything else that you might pick up or carry are merely extensions.


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## Cyriacus (Apr 3, 2013)

I dont know if ive ever replied to this thread, but, one way or another, ill answer again, with this as a revision if need be.

The best weapons for self defense are the ones youve got with you at the time.


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## Janina (May 2, 2013)

StreetReady said:


> If you had to carry any weapon for self defense *besides a gun*, what would you use?



If I would choose one, Tonfa could be my choice for weapon. My favourite weapon is obviously Iaito and also Bo, but those are both quite heavy weapons to carry with you on the street. Tonfa however would be catchy to carry and quick to use as self defence weapon.

Still, when we talk about real life situations they rarely are situations where you carry the weapon you are trained to use. For that reason I would say, like few others have already stated, that the best weapons are those you can find for the situation, and the best trained mind with sharp awareness and capability to use whatever it takes (including your hands and feet) to defence oneself, is the best possible weapon..


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## Cirdan (May 3, 2013)

Captain America`s Shield 

Anyway I don`t carry a weapon unless you count my tiny multi tool with a 5cm blade. More importantly I always wear clothing, especially pants and shoes, that does not restrict my movement. Jacket, belt and cell phone can be used as weapons depending on the situation. The most important thing is the will to do whatever is neccecary to get home in one piece, should a threat present itself.


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## Cyriacus (May 3, 2013)

Cirdan said:


> Captain America`s Shield
> 
> Anyway I don`t carry a weapon unless you count my tiny multi tool with a 5cm blade. More importantly I always wear clothing, especially pants and shoes, that does not restrict my movement. Jacket, belt and cell phone can be used as weapons depending on the situation. The most important thing is the will to do whatever is neccecary to get home in one piece, should a threat present itself.



To be fair, a multitool is pretty much one big weapon. If you use it that way


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## rframe (May 3, 2013)

LOL'ing reading some of this...

Who walks around with a staff? What are you, Moses or a shepherd?
Nunchaku tucked in your leather jacket?  Yep, good call whenever riding your hoverboard to the local arcade while carrying your boombox, but only if your headband is color coordinated with the nunchaku handles.
Is that a tonfa in your pants or are you just happy to see me?
Walk around with a "tactical" (aka "black) flashlight is a good idea, too bad probably permanently duct taped to your uber realistic airsoft toy gun and that's harder to conceal.


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## Janina (May 3, 2013)

rframe said:


> LOL'ing reading some of this...
> 
> Who walks around with a staff? What are you, Moses or a shepherd?
> Nunchaku tucked in your leather jacket?  Yep, good call whenever riding your hoverboard to the local arcade while carrying your boombox, but only if your headband is color coordinated with the nunchaku handles.
> ...




I don´t know if you were writing response to my earlier post where I, by change, mentioned bo and tonfa by saying:



Janina said:


> My favourite weapon is obviously Iaito and also  Bo, but those are both quite heavy weapons to carry with you on the  street. Tonfa however would be catchy to carry and quick to use as self  defence weapon.



But like I later on the same post mentioned:



Janina said:


> when we talk about real life situations they  rarely are situations where you carry the weapon you are trained to use.  For that reason I would say, like few others have already stated, that  the best weapons are those you can find for the situation, and the best  trained mind with sharp awareness and capability to use whatever it  takes (including your hands and feet) to defence oneself, is the best  possible weapon..



I am a practitioner of Iaido and Kobudo, but also a practitioner of Karate and Boxing and do not believe in carrying any weapon. Actually I believe that trained mind can avoid unnecessary fiughts itself (except when one has more ego than mind control). 

In real situation I would probably use hairspray or something else which I would carry anyway. So even if the weapon choice to me would be flaslight there should be function to that. I would not carry light just because I may end up fighting..


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## GaryR (May 4, 2013)

jks9199 said:


> The only currently available stun gun I'd even begin to consider advising for a civilian is the Taser C2.  Currently, only Taser's products have the Neuromuscular Incapacitation effect of their shaped pulse.  The C2 was designed as a throwaway; deploy it, and while the attacker is incapacitated, you run away.  Even then, it requires an effective deployment and two probe hit under pressure with limited practice.  A Taser isn't a bad thing to have -- but not something I'd heavily encourage, either.



I'm curious as to why you think the recommendation for a civilian is more limited?  With proper training, I think a civilian could do just fine with the same equipment an LEO uses.  I know a lot of prison guards who swear by them.  Have you had bad experiences with stun guns?



jks9199 said:


> Again, we have problems of deploying it under pressure, as well as requiring sufficient room to use it effectively.  And it can VERY easily be lethal force.  It's a freakin' metal pipe, certainly capable of doing "serious bodily harm."




Sans a spike ring, or chest mounted sensor operated machine gun,  deploying a weapon under pressure is a universal problem. Also using  ones own material under pressure is even a problem for most.  I  mentioned reach advantage here for a reason... Can definitely do serious  bodily harm, most weapons worth using fit in this category.  



jks9199 said:


> Lights are something I strongly encourage.  They're useful in dark places, they may blind an attacker (if you can lay hands on it, in a functional manner under pressure), and a few are even designed to have some enhancements for self defense.



Glad you like one thing on my list, lol. 




jks9199 said:


> "Piss off juice" is the best name I've heard for OC.  Unreliable, and easily beaten by a determined assailant.  That's if you can even find, grab, and functionally deploy it in the first place.  If I could, I'd take it off my duty gear...



It's on your duty gear for a reason, it's been known to have a good use on certain occasions.  Pepper spray is not usually a one shot solution,  it's a window opener.  Again, functional deployment is a universal issue.  Agree to disagree I guess.  



jks9199 said:


> Knives are useful.  Benchmade are decent, at a good price point -- but far from the only brand worth recommending.  (I'm personally partial to Spyderco, and also their Byrd line.  But that's just my own preferences.)  And I'd encourage a knife that can be easily opened with one hand -- but also is useful as a tool, not merely a weapon.  Also worth mentioning or recalling that a knife automatically means lethal force.



No, benchmades are the only brand worth buying...kidding.  Of course there are others, I didn't think anyone would take me so literal as to think that is the only knife brand worth buying!  I'm not a big fan of Spyderco, but to each his own.  I'm also a lefty, and the axis lock is handy.    



jks9199 said:


> Practice and training in the use is important.  It's also very important to couple carrying any sort of weapon with training and education on the use of force, and how to articulate your use of force.



Another thing we agree on.  All too often people carry weapons they do not know how to use/deploy/retain, or are aware of the legal implications on presenting/using such a weapon.  Articulating boundaries, etc. to a would-be assailant can be a great idea, especially loudly, so as to alert others it is not in fact a mutual combat situation. No matter how nice the Police Officer (i.e. friendly interrogator) seems, I would let your Attorney do any articulating re your use of force after the fact.  Very explicitly invoke your right to counsel, then questions must cease ("I think I need an attorney" doesn't cut it).         

So anyhow Jim, I know what you think of my list, what is your list?  Just blade, light...firearm? 

best,

G


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## jks9199 (May 4, 2013)

Why the Taser C2 versus the X2 (which is what I carry on duty) or one of their other models?  It's designed for civilian purposes.  The 5 second cycle of the X2 and other "pro" models is designed to allow us to move in and cuff the subject while their under power.  The C2 is designed as a "fire & forget", kind of like a LAW rocket.  It's got a 30 second cycle to give a civilian time to escape.  And Taser is advertising a lifetime replacement policy, if you make a police report.  

Why Taser vs any other contact stun gun -- or even the handful of others that use some sort of projectile?  Because all of the others are simple pain compliance.  The Taser products aren't -- if properly deployed, and if you get  both darts to hit the subject.  Their proprietary technology uses a cycle that really does incapacitate.  The little video I've seen of someone "defeating" it typically does it by breaking the contact, and every one of them I've seen actually starts the action before the hit and before the power cycle engages.

Why don't I like pepper spray?  Because it is, at best, unreliable.  The response is very individual; I've seen it range from "oh, gee... ow since you want me to be in pain..." to "OH MY GOD THE WORLD IS ENDING!!!!"   A determined individual can reliably fight past it; look at all the video of people during training exposures.  Sure, it's got it's place.  But I'd rather take it off my belt, and carry the fire extinguisher size model in my trunk for crowd dispersal.  Ask a group of cops; almost none would mind losing OC from their belt.


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## GaryR (May 4, 2013)

jks9199 said:


> Why the Taser C2 versus the X2 (which is what I carry on duty) or one of their other models?  It's designed for civilian purposes.  The 5 second cycle of the X2 and other "pro" models is designed to allow us to move in and cuff the subject while their under power.  The C2 is designed as a "fire & forget", kind of like a LAW rocket.  It's got a 30 second cycle to give a civilian time to escape.  And Taser is advertising a lifetime replacement policy, if you make a police report.
> 
> Why Taser vs any other contact stun gun -- or even the handful of others that use some sort of projectile?  Because all of the others are simple pain compliance.  The Taser products aren't -- if properly deployed, and if you get  both darts to hit the subject.  Their proprietary technology uses a cycle that really does incapacitate.  The little video I've seen of someone "defeating" it typically does it by breaking the contact, and every one of them I've seen actually starts the action before the hit and before the power cycle engages.



Gotcha, makes sense.  Thanks for the info. 



jks9199 said:


> Why don't I like pepper spray?  Because it is, at best, unreliable.  The response is very individual; I've seen it range from "oh, gee... ow since you want me to be in pain..." to "OH MY GOD THE WORLD IS ENDING!!!!"   A determined individual can reliably fight past it; look at all the video of people during training exposures.  Sure, it's got it's place.  But I'd rather take it off my belt, and carry the fire extinguisher size model in my trunk for crowd dispersal.  Ask a group of cops; almost none would mind losing OC from their belt.



I agree, a determined individual can certainly fight past it.  But I do think it's something that a civilian can easily keep on their key chain just in case.  It's a an option that can be deployed without escalating the force to lethal, and can create an opening for something else.  

What is your list?  Oh, and what is your preferred firearm?

Best,

Gary


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## Brian R. VanCise (May 4, 2013)

*I'll give you an idea of what I think you should carry to have balance.*  1)handgun: this really is a no brainer as it is the preeminent personal self defense tool. (ie over a rifle because you can conceal it otherwise a rifle would be first)  2)Knife: find you favorite mine is benchmade but there are lots of good ones.  3)small flashlight designed for law enforcement as they typically are crenulated and also have a high lumens.  4)A good pen.  Does not have to have tactical on it.  My favorite is: http://www.riteintherain.com/inventory.asp?CatId={07D475E2-B68D-4D45-B646-B82223E119DE}.  They have a lot of good pens and they write in any weather!  Now the best thing about everything above is that all of it together is not that heavy and gives you both lethal and non lethal options.


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## Brian R. VanCise (May 4, 2013)

Okay the pen link is not working and I cannot edit it so try this: www.riteintherain.com


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## jks9199 (May 4, 2013)

For civilians...  It's an individual answer.  What's the person willing to deal with?  Carrying a gun requires some clothing planning, and can become a challenge, even if you have a CCW, since there are places you can't go, and things you can't do while carrying.  I have the ultimate CCW, my badge & creds, which pretty much let me ignore "no gun" signs, even off duty.  Worst case, I'll leave.  But a civilian can't carry in a number of places that I can; they only recently changed the laws in Virginia to allow carrying a concealed firearm (with CCW, of course) in any establishment that serves alcohol, for example.  Didn't matter if you drank or not.   Looking at other things -- options that work fine for my wife may not be acceptable for someone else.  The few universal items I suggest are cell phones, and flashlights.  And -- honestly, the flashlight is discretionary, too.  If I'm working with someone on how to defend themselves, I'm going to assess what they're willing and able to carry, and employ, and work from there, rather than hand them a cookie cutter shopping list.

The reality is that tools aren't going to make you safe.  They're there for when things get totally fubar because you should have avoided the situation as much as possible.  I could carry enough crap that I clink as bad as I do on duty.  And I might be tempted to get into a stupid situation or go somewhere I shouldn't.  Lot of people already said it, as I recall this thread: the best weapon for self defense is knowledge coupled with simply staying out of places where violence is likely.


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## chinto (May 4, 2013)

szorn said:


> Whatever I have on my person or within reach is the best self-defense weapon. That said, I am a fan of edged weapons for potential lethal force situations and the use of pens / felt-tip markers for less-than-lethal situations.
> 
> Steve


I agree with you, but in some places using a blade will have you in more trouble then if you used a gun!! also in a lot of foreign country's, UK for example a blade is a serious offense I understand! just having it, let alone using it, self defense or not  I am told!!


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## chinto (May 4, 2013)

jks9199 said:


> For civilians...  It's an individual answer.  What's the person willing to deal with?  Carrying a gun requires some clothing planning, and can become a challenge, even if you have a CCW, since there are places you can't go, and things you can't do while carrying.  I have the ultimate CCW, my badge & creds, which pretty much let me ignore "no gun" signs, even off duty.  Worst case, I'll leave.  But a civilian can't carry in a number of places that I can; they only recently changed the laws in Virginia to allow carrying a concealed firearm (with CCW, of course) in any establishment that serves alcohol, for example.  Didn't matter if you drank or not.   Looking at other things -- options that work fine for my wife may not be acceptable for someone else.  The few universal items I suggest are cell phones, and flashlights.  And -- honestly, the flashlight is discretionary, too.  If I'm working with someone on how to defend themselves, I'm going to assess what they're willing and able to carry, and employ, and work from there, rather than hand them a cookie cutter shopping list.
> 
> The reality is that tools aren't going to make you safe.  They're there for when things get totally fubar because you should have avoided the situation as much as possible.  I could carry enough crap that I clink as bad as I do on duty.  And I might be tempted to get into a stupid situation or go somewhere I shouldn't.  Lot of people already said it, as I recall this thread: the best weapon for self defense is knowledge coupled with simply staying out of places where violence is likely.


in my state, you are not on duty and responding to a call and my business says no weapons.. you go to jail! cop or not!!  

but it does have to be posted. but off duty you may not enter a place with no weapons sign armed... exception is court house and hospital.. other wise its a serious no no


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## martial sparrer (May 5, 2013)

how about your  3 middle fingers for an eye poke.....or a good old weapon of a sidekick to the knee....or a nipple twist lol


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## grumpywolfman (May 5, 2013)

martial sparrer said:


> how about your  3 middle fingers for an eye poke.....or a good old weapon of a sidekick to the knee....or a nipple twist lol



[video=youtube_share;xxg716xgTcI]http://youtu.be/xxg716xgTcI[/video]


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## Janina (May 6, 2013)

martial sparrer said:


> how about your  3 middle fingers for an eye poke.....or a good old weapon of a sidekick to the knee....or a nipple twist lol




One teacher once told that best possible self defence weapon are your quick feet, but I suppose he did not mean kicking by that..


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## Cyriacus (May 6, 2013)

martial sparrer said:


> how about your  3 middle fingers for an eye poke.....or a good old weapon of a sidekick to the knee....or a nipple twist lol


Index finger, thumb, or index AND middle finger work better. Just, you know. Sayin.


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## Balrog (Aug 2, 2013)

StreetReady said:


> If you had to carry any weapon for self defense *besides a gun*, what would you use?


The brain is the best weapon in all situations.  But it never hurts to have a backup.

I personally carry a small Maglite with my keys attached.  It never gets taken away at airports like a kubaton will, and it can be used quite nicely as a kubaton.  It's amazing how handy and helpful that flashlight is.

In the car, I carry a larger Maglite.  Again, the flashlight is very helpful and it can be used in much the same manner as a bahng mahng ee.


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## Blaze Dragon (Aug 2, 2013)

As was pointed out already. Your mind, and then your weapon choice based upon your training. I feel the best self defense weapons are those you can carry comfortably, regularly and are confidence enough to use. In some cases this maybe getting a makeshift weapon. Also it would depend on where you are, for example having a walking staff out hiking vs in a store, in which case a cane would be a much better option, as long as you have the training.

 I feel that movements can be translated from one weapon to another. The effectiveness of such translation is easily debatable. However if your trained in sword, swinging a stick like a sword would still, in my opinion at least be better then grabbing something your not comfortable with at all. Like wise if you are trained in some form of short stick, a cane, or hastily broken broom/mop handle might be a viable option. Wearing a belt can make for a quick weapon as long as it's not needed to hold your pants up (in fact wearing one even if you don't need one, might make this a good option). Kubotan is another easy to carry weapon.

However essentially what ever you can use effectively that you could comfortably do your daily day to day route with I feel would be worth considering. As long as it's legally allowed to be carried where your day to day routine happens


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## Jackthekarateguy (Aug 10, 2013)

carrying any kind of offensive weapon is as far as i'm aware prohibited in the uk and using a pencil as a weapon is less likely to be seen in a good light by the courts. Doesn't stop me carrying four thrusting weapons, two on each hand, and four clubbing weapons, one in each sleeve and trouser-leg.These are the weapons I'm used to using the most, If you get my drift. I'm not an animal person, but a really big dog probably has a lot going for it in terms of legality, and affection for that matter


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## MaxRob (Oct 18, 2013)

A water pistol filled with a concentrated solution of ammonium hydroxide ( ammonia)
 It is absolutely devastating  and debilitating on any attacker.
target nose or eyes, face. The fumes are paralyzingly effective.
SRTICTLY ONLY TO BE USED in those conditions where one is in a REAL LIFE TREATENING CONDITION where avoidance and awareness and escape the magior self defense tactics have failed.check with your local laws, as this can cause severe harm and even permanent eye damage.


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## MaxRob (Oct 18, 2013)

A screw driver.


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## Hyoho (Oct 18, 2013)

Its as good job you don't live in the Philippines. A local with. a sundang is by very very proficient.

Anything can be construed as a weapon if carried or used with intent. Maybe waving a coloured belt at them might frighten them away?

The ammonia gun sounds good but like mace not so good in a confined space.

3 locals stabbed their cousin 23 times last year. About all that will stop them is a tazer.


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## Veee (Nov 2, 2013)

Kama's


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## iluvmycam (Mar 27, 2014)

I'm just getting started so I am no expert. This is what I've settled on:  a 500 lumen Surefire flashlight, a can of pepper spray and a collapsible baton. For back up a divers stiletto mounted in a waist bag. If someone is on top of me and is killing me it is easy to insert into their torso.

 If I was younger and better shape I'd put more effort and skill in hand to hand. I'm working in that direction now. But at 60 with a bad back and neck I prefer some weapon help.


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## iluvmycam (Mar 27, 2014)

MaxRob said:


> A water pistol filled with a concentrated solution of ammonium hydroxide ( ammonia)
> It is absolutely devastating  and debilitating on any attacker.
> target nose or eyes, face. The fumes are paralyzingly effective.
> SRTICTLY ONLY TO BE USED in those conditions where one is in a REAL LIFE TREATENING CONDITION where avoidance and awareness and escape the magior self defense tactics have failed.check with your local laws, as this can cause severe harm and even permanent eye damage.



Sounds good except the water pistol. Ones I've had leak all over.


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## iluvmycam (Mar 27, 2014)

Cyriacus said:


> I dont know if ive ever replied to this thread, but, one way or another, ill answer again, with this as a revision if need be.
> 
> The best weapons for self defense are the ones youve got with you at the time.



That is what they say about cameras too!


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## iluvmycam (Mar 27, 2014)

oftheherd1 said:


> Since I am the only one who mentioned a short stick, I guess the above is directed at me?  The OP's question was "... what would you use?"  So what would I use?  As I said, as a Hapkidoist, I would use a short stick.  In the Hapkido I learned, we did a lot of short stick defense between 1st and 2nd dan, including for sword defense.  From 2nd to 3rd dan, there was even more training with the short stick.  So if I had to choose a weapon, that is what I would use since I am trained with it.
> 
> If others are students of Hapkido, and did not learn that, I would not advise them to try and use it.  But you are correct, no matter the weapon, you should train with it so you can indeed use it effectively.




Yes, sticks are good. I got a couple of DVD's on them. Never knew so much could be done with them.


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## iluvmycam (Mar 27, 2014)

StreetReady said:


> I personally own a Glock Model 23. I love it and take it everywhere I'm allowed to.



Yes, good protection. But when I travel overseas or certain states it is not legal. I need legal weapons or at least somewhat more legal than a gun. But isn't it sad how law abiding people have to be scared to defend themselves against the criminals?


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## iluvmycam (Mar 27, 2014)

Kong Soo Do said:


> A tactical flashlight would be a good choice, and can be taken into areas other 'tools' cannot. It also serves more than one purpose, so it is good for a survival tool. Additionally, several varieties have very sharp ends. A Kubaton is a nice tool as well, though it may not go places a flashlight can go.
> 
> 
> In regards to the legal issue, it really isn't an issue. Using a 'weapon' in most locals will cause the charge (if any is issued) to become 'aggrivated'. Doesn't matter whether you're using a knife, a bat or a toaster or a car. One cannot say there is a greater risk of death in any particular weapon used. It all depends on too many factors i.e. place of injury/force used/depth of injury/health of individual injured/outside influences.
> ...




When I got my 500 lumen Surefire I tested it on my hand. I lightly hit the bone on my back hand with the crenellated bezel. Caused a bruise immediately and some blood. I shined it in my eyes is a dim room. I was still seeing stars a minutes later. They are fantastic tools. If you want to go to the next level, laser weapons are the thing. But they can cause perm eye damage.


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## iluvmycam (Mar 27, 2014)

szorn said:


> Whatever I have on my person or within reach is the best self-defense weapon. That said, I am a fan of edged weapons for potential lethal force situations and the use of pens / felt-tip markers for less-than-lethal situations.
> 
> Steve



I just got a tactical pen. 

They look pretty scary. I keep it as a last ditch weapon.


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## iluvmycam (Mar 27, 2014)

jks9199 said:


> The only currently available stun gun I'd even begin to consider advising for a civilian is the Taser C2.  Currently, only Taser's products have the Neuromuscular Incapacitation effect of their shaped pulse.  The C2 was designed as a throwaway; deploy it, and while the attacker is incapacitated, you run away.  Even then, it requires an effective deployment and two probe hit under pressure with limited practice.  A Taser isn't a bad thing to have -- but not something I'd heavily encourage, either.
> Again, we have problems of deploying it under pressure, as well as requiring sufficient room to use it effectively.  And it can VERY easily be lethal force.  It's a freakin' metal pipe, certainly capable of doing "serious bodily harm."
> Lights are something I strongly encourage.  They're useful in dark places, they may blind an attacker (if you can lay hands on it, in a functional manner under pressure), and a few are even designed to have some enhancements for self defense.
> 
> ...



All good choices. Although I don't like folding knives that much.


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## Buka (Mar 27, 2014)

Blade.


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## Jaeimseu (Mar 28, 2014)

Brain.

Sent from my SHV-E210K using Tapatalk


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## Instructor (Mar 28, 2014)

Jaeimseu said:


> Brain.
> 
> Sent from my SHV-E210K using Tapatalk



This....  Good judgement is the best weapon a person can have.


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## cloud dancing (Nov 19, 2014)

300 year old Illini Indian throwing stone inside end of my 4 inch wide brown yellow silk belt sash. allows heavy hits.distance from opponent and throws with sash.Legally is simply sash I'm wearing with artifact inside of it. flashlight seems most legal of weapons to use if large light.shine around area.see what's going down. Clear mind from doing minimum one hour meditation,style taught by Prem Rawat.I don't allow strangers inside my 1 meter body circle.prevent anyone from violating my space. Heard of old guy who took out 3-4 young-uns with squirt gun filled with ammonia.Inside a bar.Stay inside the LIGHT avoid DARKNESS.


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## geezer (Nov 25, 2014)

cloud dancing said:


> 300 year old Illini Indian throwing stone inside end of my 4 inch wide brown yellow silk belt sash. allows heavy hits.distance from opponent and throws with sash.


 

You wear _a sash _on a daily basis?




cloud dancing said:


> I don't allow strangers inside my 1 meter body circle.prevent anyone from violating my space.



That must be tough to do in crowded places. What would you do you do in elevators, etc.? Back into a corner and flail with your sash?  Or wear oppressively strong cologne?


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## The Scythian (Dec 27, 2014)

A sling and/or blade.


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## tkdwarrior (Dec 27, 2014)

A gun, the bigger the caliber the better.


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## tkdwarrior (Dec 27, 2014)

For non lethal self defense weapon a tazer or stun gun.


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## tkdwarrior (Dec 27, 2014)

Of course the best weapon is your brain. And outrightly avoiding any dangerous situation, places and people.


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## Dirty Dog (Dec 27, 2014)

tkdwarrior said:


> A gun, the bigger the caliber the better.


 
Although there was a time when this was true, it no longer is. The damage done by a handgun with modern ammo is pretty much the same regardless of caliber. The only way we can tell what caliber the gun was is to find the bulllet and measure it. Doesn't mater if it's a little .380ACP or a .45. The damage to the body is identical. What matters with modern ammo is shot placement. Not caliber.


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## tkdwarrior (Dec 27, 2014)

There is a new kind of ammo with the acronym RIP. You get hit by one of these it splinters and spreads out in a sun radial pattern all over your body causing ballistic impact lacerations damage to all your internal organs. Ensuring death. In other words turns your insides into hamburger. One bullet will definitely do the job.


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## tkdwarrior (Dec 27, 2014)

But even with this ammo I will still double tap just to be sure.


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## Dirty Dog (Dec 27, 2014)

tkdwarrior said:


> There is a new kind of ammo with the acronym RIP. You get hit by one of these it splinters and spreads out in a sun radial pattern all over your body causing ballistic impact lacerations damage to all your internal organs. Ensuring death. In other words turns your insides into hamburger. One bullet will definitely do the job.


 
Not true. That's their advertising, but the ballistics do not support the claims. It's expensive and has far less penetration than is ideal. In actual testing, the core of the bullet provides adequate penetration, but the trocars will only cause superficial injuries.
You're better off with a good quality conventional defensive round such as the Hornady Critical Defense or somesuch and spend the money saved on range time.


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## tkdwarrior (Dec 27, 2014)

Dirty Dog said:


> Not true. That's their advertising, but the ballistics do not support the claims. It's expensive and has far less penetration than is ideal. In actual testing, the core of the bullet provides adequate penetration, but the trocars will only cause superficial injuries.
> You're better off with a good quality conventional defensive round such as the Hornady Critical Defense or somesuch and spend the money saved on range time.


Oh I see, thanks for the tip, I guess since it is designed to splinter at impact the trade off is that the penetration will be off. Thanks


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## Dirty Dog (Dec 27, 2014)

tkdwarrior said:


> Oh I see, thanks for the tip, I guess since it is designed to splinter at impact the trade off is that the penetration will be off. Thanks


 
I'm going to add the caveat that I have not yet seen a patient shot with the RIP ammo. I am basing my statements off ballistic jelly testing and my experience with other types of gunshot wounds.


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## ballen0351 (Dec 27, 2014)

That Rip ammo is also bad for Glock and I'd guess other guns as well
G2 Research s R.I.P. .45 ACP Ammo Is Dangerous... To Glock Shooters - Bearing Arms


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## tkdwarrior (Dec 27, 2014)

Well I guess the verdict is still out until someone really gets shot with the RIP then.


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## ballen0351 (Dec 27, 2014)

tkdwarrior said:


> Well I guess the verdict is still out until someone really gets shot with the RIP then.


DD and I have seen plenty of people shot.  Leave the Gimmicks alone stick to professional high quality ammo.  Anything with a zombie or RIp or any other gimmick just leave it alone


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## Dirty Dog (Dec 27, 2014)

tkdwarrior said:


> Well I guess the verdict is still out until someone really gets shot with the RIP then.


 
Not really. Ballistic gel is pretty good stuff. If anything, a human torso is likely to result in even less penetration of the trocars as they deflect off the ribs. 


Sent from an old fashioned 300 baud acoustic modem by whistling into the handset. Really.


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## Dirty Dog (Dec 27, 2014)

ballen0351 said:


> DD and I have seen plenty of people shot.  Leave the Gimmicks alone stick to professional high quality ammo.  Anything with a zombie or RIp or any other gimmick just leave it alone


Well...
Hornady sells their zombie ammo. It's exactly the same as their Critical Defense (excellent ammo, and what I have in my carry guns) except that the plastic cap is green instead of red. 
The RIP ammo is just a gimmick and I expect it to vanish. 



Sent from an old fashioned 300 baud acoustic modem by whistling into the handset. Really.


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## ballen0351 (Dec 27, 2014)

Dirty Dog said:


> Well...
> Hornady sells their zombie ammo. It's exactly the same as their Critical Defense (excellent ammo, and what I have in my carry guns) except that the plastic cap is green instead of red.
> The RIP ammo is just a gimmick and I expect it to vanish.
> 
> ...


That's the ammo I was thinking about when I said that. If you were to ever need to defend yourself and used that  I can see some prosecutors trying to paint the picture of you living out some fantasy zombie killer and not really needed self defense.  I was once told by a lawyer "the facts are not nearly as important as the impression."  So even though it's the same ammo the impression that can be painted could cause you more headaches then it's worth.


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## Dirty Dog (Dec 27, 2014)

ballen0351 said:


> That's the ammo I was thinking about when I said that. If you were to ever need to defend yourself and used that  I can see some prosecutors trying to paint the picture of you living out some fantasy zombie killer and not really needed self defense.  I was once told by a lawyer "the facts are not nearly as important as the impression."  So even though it's the same ammo the impression that can be painted could cause you more headaches then it's worth.



Show me cases where this has actually happened...

The same argument has been made against carrying hollow points. After all, it's more lethal than FMJ, so you're a blood crazed killer. 

The same argument has been made against accurizing a gun, or just a trigger job. 

The same argument has been made against cerakoting a gun, or changing the slide cover to one with a decoration on it. 

None of these arguments seem to have any factual basis, and I will continue to carry hollow points. And make my guns as accurate as possible. The bedside gun (a Glock 41) has a 2 lb trigger. And the slide cover has a "Punisher" skull on it. And I may have some smart-*** but funny quote  like "smile and wait for flash" put on the suppressor. 

In the unlikely event that I'm forced to use a gun outside the range, here in the home of the "Make My Day" law, I'll trust that my lawyer can ensure the right impression. If the public defender can get a total scumbag released, I have no real worries. 


Sent from an old fashioned 300 baud acoustic modem by whistling into the handset. Really.


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## ballen0351 (Dec 27, 2014)

I'm not saying it will. I'm saying why take the chance when regularly packaged ammo will do the sane without the added risk.  If you think there are not antigun prosecutors looking to make an example your mistaken.  Carry what you want I don't care just don't be surprised if your choice brings extra scrutiny


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## Matt Bryers (Jan 21, 2015)

Jumping into this topic a little late, but I think it's a great question.

As many of you have said: Brain, Awareness, Cell-Phone... etc etc etc etc.  Yea, that's cool. But it's a safe answer.  We all have those.

I have personally been thinking a lot about personal weapons recently, especially since I actually had to pull my knife recently (second time in my life, first one was over 10 years ago.)  I didn't have to open it (which I'll explain in a second), but it was in my hand and ready to "go".

I personally carry a 4" folder (legal in CT).  My favorite is the Emerson Combat Karambit with the wave, but I have noticed people tend to notice it more due to the profile of the knife.   My EDC is typically the Cold Steel AK-47.

But due to my recent experience.  I have a few thoughts on knives and personal weapons.

1.) I have spend a lot of time training on deploying my knife.  I understand and am confident getting it into my hand the way I need to.  So, I think that if you are going to carry a knife, this is one of the most important things.  Being familiar with your blade.

2.) You don't need to actually deploy your knife to make it effective.  It is an excellent blunt object similar to a kukaton or other small blunt object.  Along those lines I decided to buy a smith and wesson tactical pen.  This is a nice option as well.

3.) I don't necessarily need to carry a knife, a tactical pen, kukaton or other.  But, I am happy that I do.

4.) Flashlights are probably my favorite.

When I worked security I also carried the Surefire E2D Defender flashlight and own a few of these.  (Bedroom, Car, & Carry).  The profile of the light is hard to carry in your pocket.  But, it depends on what I wear or where I am going I use it.  I traveled to Spain recently to Valencia to train, and this is what I brought with me.

I really like the flashlight because it's extremely bright and when shined in the eyes is causes disruption, quick blindness, and can also be used as a blunt object.  When working security the flashlight was an awesome option because it seems to just "stop" people, cause them to put their hands up (to stop the light in their eyes), and changed their "mood".  I NEVER actually had to hit anyone with the flashlight after.  Some would get pissed, but they never decided to take it any further.

When I pulled my knife a few months ago, 2 people in masks and large camo jackets came walking down a long private driveway into a private party.  It was a couple of weeks before Halloween.  The didn't say a word and kept advancing.  I interjected.  Long story short, it turned out to be the drunk brother of the host and his friend (they weren't supposed to be there).  They thought they were being funny.... it wasn't.  Looking back - I am glad I didn't open the knife, but glad it was on me at the same time.  Putting it in my hand and advancing on them, changed their mood quickly.

In my experience, when alcohol is involved, people tend to go for their knife or weapon much more quickly.  Booze breaks down inhibitions which can make it fun when talking to the ladies or but bad when violence makes an appearance.  Side note: I was not drinking that day (driving) and glad I had the wherewithal to not actually open the knife.

Lastly, I am a huge fan of weapons of opportunity.  Fight "levelers".  I always ask myself: "What can I smaller, weaker person do to level the fight if attacked by a larger person or a group of people?".  Depending on what you have available, there's a lot!  It's just creativity and understanding that what you carry can be a weapon.  Purse, Pen, Backpack, Keys, Wallet, Phone (weapon), Bottle, Chair... .the list goes on.  Things can be used as distractions, objects to strike with, or both.  Again, I'll go back the flashlight because it has both.  It can distract / deter your attacker with the light and hit them with the blunt object.

So - I think there is no right answer to "what is the best weapon".  It's what you are comfortable with, combined with your training and combined with your mindset.  If you are someone who parties a lot - I would NOT suggest carrying a knife.  If your job requires you to be in difficult situations or has you traveling to places that are difficult, then carry something that is appropriate for that situation.  This is not the Zombie Apocalypse  - yet   So there's no need to be armed to the teeth.  Carry something that you know how to use, is effective, but also not truly deadly.

Thanks, Matt


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## Dirty Dog (Jan 21, 2015)

If the situation devolves to the point that weapons are needed, I believe in overkill. I carry a knife, sure (mostly used for cuticles and opening packages). Usually it's either the Benchmade Auto Stryker or Camillus Cuda, but honestly I am extremely unlikely to ever reach for the knife in a self defense situation. Instead of reaching into my front pocket for a knife, I'll reach a few inches further to the rear and use whatever gun I'm carrying that day. Most commonly that is either a Taurus PT111 Millennium G2 or a Glock 26.


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## PhotonGuy (Jan 21, 2015)

StreetReady said:


> If you had to carry any weapon for self defense *besides a gun*, what would you use?



I would say the best self defense weapon is the mind.


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## wingerjim (Jan 21, 2015)

StreetReady said:


> If you had to carry any weapon for self defense *besides a gun*, what would you use?


 Well I do carry a gun when appropriate with the lawful credentials. Since I cannot all the time I study martial arts. But to answer your question in the context it was asked, I would carry a 6' wooden pole or well made solid wooden cane. You get hitting power, defense, light weight and does not look too far out of place as a weapon.


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## wingerjim (Jan 21, 2015)

oaktree said:


> Hi Streetready,
> I won't say to much of the obvious like being aware of your surroundings(which is one of the greatest self defense tactic you can arm yourself with)avoiding bad areas etc etc.
> 
> Self defense is a pretty wide defination because I think you are more likely to need to defend against flat tires, accidents, emergency situations over someone trying to rob you.
> ...


I agree, the best offense is a great defense. Situational awareness is very important.


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## tshadowchaser (Jan 21, 2015)

I appended to mention this thread to my wife and her answer as soon as I said the name of the thread was:  A double barrel 12 gauge or a 45 automatic with hollow points. 
I tend to think she brakes things down to the most basic and deadliest of situations and options.


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## Instructor (Jan 22, 2015)

tshadowchaser said:


> I appended to mention this thread to my wife and her answer as soon as I said the name of the thread was:  A double barrel 12 gauge or a 45 automatic with hollow points.
> I tend to think she brakes things down to the most basic and deadliest of situations and options.



Gotta love a practical woman.


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## Cirdan (Jan 23, 2015)

No gun? A flamethrower then mohahaha!






Anyway depends on the situation, I have carried a stick that I could explain away as a walking stick (icy roads in the country, not to mention some unstable people) for instance.


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## MaxRob (Mar 28, 2015)

Very interesting indeed.
In my aspect first I would use avoidance and awareness to actually not get into conflict. if need be even run for it. Running is effective and requires training.
If that is not possible one needs to assess the degree of harm aimed at you and the corresponding force you need to free yourself and in many cases ensuring you are not using excessive force or you may have issues with the Law.
A knife is effective but one really must have trained how to fight with one, allowing there may be that person out there who may have had basic martial art training.
I like to rely on situational weapons which the environment provides there and then and what I carry in my pocket,  ie a coin if thrown with high kinetic energy can open up  a defensive attack, followed up with multiple strikes.
Your attacker may have a very high pain threshold, and this if often not considered, they can overcome the most painful of strikes, as a rule never let your guard down even when you have struck a sensitive area, ones distraction can be ones  undoing , using multiple very fast strikes try for a knockout blow, and then get the hell out of there.


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## Orange Lightning (Mar 29, 2015)

StreetReady said:


> If you had to carry any weapon for self defense *besides a gun*, what would you use?



I live in Michigan. The law on the subject is kind of open to interpretation. It's all about intent. I don't mean my likeliness to get in trouble for carrying something depends on the nature of the object. I mean I can literally carry a huge hunting knife or a big stick anywhere, *as long as I don't plan on hurting anyone* xD There are a couple things that are illegal (automatic knives, gravity knives, double sided knives, a few other things), but that's it.
I'm a huge fan of walking sticks. I practice with them sticks and staffs of multiple varieties all the time, and I make them too. I made "walking" sticks for my most of my close family and friends. I also live in the wilderness. I carry a jo or bo length stick everywhere, but they are justifiable *walking* sticks. The jo length is more preferable for walking in more urban areas.  Wooden weapons are my go to for anything.  I also carry a knife. 
Because I live in the wilderness, I can getaway with carrying big sticks everywhere. Need to protect myself from coyotes and such. I can see this not being the solution for most people. I've found that nunchuks are highly concealable, but of highly potent length and power when deployed. Not legal everywhere though. Questionable intent too. 
A kubotan really eliminates the whole intent thing from my game. Nobody ever went out looking to do harm with their "keychain". But I see it losing to a guy with a knife.
For the car, a straight tire iron can be a great choice. Acceptable intent, intimidating, can be used with one hand, and hefty. If you have a short one, it's still hits really hard. 

A coat! It's surprisingly hard to cut through fabric. Especially certain kinds. Wearing a coat will protect your arms from most cuts, and even small stabs. Mitigates a lot of percussive force too, again, depends on the material.
I've never taken the training, but I understand that people can also disarm other people of their weapons using their coats. The Manly art of Bartitsu! Look it up. It's awesome. Lots of stuff on coats, canes, and umbrellas.


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## Hyoho (Mar 29, 2015)

If you live in a country that allows you to carry a weapon all well and good. Thing is you have to "prove' in a court of law your actions were self defence. As a kid I had a pocket knife in my pocket and happened to walk into a gang fight outside a disco and got attacked. Holding my own until we all got arrested. Emptied my pockets out at the station and I was in trouble. I insisted that I had not drawn the knife but they said its "intent". If you have it on you? You probably intended to use it. Can you use a big stick in a car?

 Its 2015. I live in the jungle. Not in the car but have weapons all over the place. King Cobras coming through the garden where I live. Lizards over a meter long trying to steal my chickens. Everyone carries a blade everywhere they go except shopping in town.


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## Orange Lightning (Mar 30, 2015)

How about a telescoping baton? They are light, compact, sturdy, can fit in a pocket when retracted, and are surprisingly painful! They come in various lengths, but I'm pretty sure they are illegal in most places in America. There isn't much to be argued as far as intent is concerned though. It's obviously designed to open veritable cans of whooped buttocks.


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## Instructor (Mar 30, 2015)

Dirty Dog said:


> Show me cases where this has actually happened...
> 
> The same argument has been made against carrying hollow points. After all, it's more lethal than FMJ, so you're a blood crazed killer.
> 
> ...


 
You can never have too much accuracy!  Hitting what you are shooting at is extremely important second only to not missing and hitting somebody you were not shooting at.


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## Orange Lightning (Mar 30, 2015)

Hyoho said:


> If you live in a country that allows you to carry a weapon all well and good. Thing is you have to "prove' in a court of law your actions were self defence. As a kid I had a pocket knife in my pocket and happened to walk into a gang fight outside a disco and got attacked. Holding my own until we all got arrested. Emptied my pockets out at the station and I was in trouble. I insisted that I had not drawn the knife but they said its "intent". If you have it on you? You probably intended to use it. Can you use a big stick in a car?
> 
> Its 2015. I live in the jungle. Not in the car but have weapons all over the place. King Cobras coming through the garden where I live. Lizards over a meter long trying to steal my chickens. Everyone carries a blade everywhere they go except shopping in town.



Dude, it sounds like you should be carrying a super illegal machete. Or a long stick at the very least. Do you carry something? 
Maybe something that can be easily disposed? The telescoping baton I just posted is easy to get rid of quickly. Throw it in some bushes or something and you'd have a hard time finding it, even if you knew it was there. Especially in the dark. My dad once told me a story of doing exactly that, even as police were walking towards him.


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## Hyoho (Mar 30, 2015)

Orange Lightning said:


> Dude, it sounds like you should be carrying a super illegal machete. Or a long stick at the very least. Do you carry something?
> Maybe something that can be easily disposed? The telescoping baton I just posted is easy to get rid of quickly. Throw it in some bushes or something and you'd have a hard time finding it, even if you knew it was there. Especially in the dark. My dad once told me a story of doing exactly that, even as police were walking towards him.






 I carry and use all these. Mostly the top and far right one as a pair. Kids carry the middle one to use at school.


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## Orange Lightning (Mar 30, 2015)

Hyoho said:


> I carry and use all these. Mostly the top and far right one as a pair. Kids carry the middle one to use at school.
> 
> 
> View attachment 19245



Holy crap. I have clearly underestimated the level badassery that is necessary for your community.
Machete and stick? Hm. That sounds hard to learn. I'm curious now. Is that Kali?  
I have found wielding paired weapons possible, but difficult. Does the methodology make it simpler? Do you view each weapon as a separate entity with a different role, or as a 2 parts of the same whole to be used in conjunction with each other? Paired weapons are a bit uncommon and contextually fascinating as to why it is preferred over a different method.


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## Hyoho (Mar 30, 2015)

Orange Lightning said:


> Holy crap. I have clearly underestimated the level badassery that is necessary for your community.
> Machete and stick? Hm. That sounds hard to learn. I'm curious now. Is that Kali?
> I have found wielding paired weapons possible, but difficult. Does the methodology make it simpler? Do you view each weapon as a separate entity with a different role, or as a 2 parts of the same whole to be used in conjunction with each other? Paired weapons are a bit uncommon and contextually fascinating as to why it is preferred over a different method.


All standard Filipino tools. The basis of arnis/escrima. Agricultural and 'other use' if need be. Top one is the usual weapon/agricultural. I like the far left one. Cuts and sweeps. They all have specific use. Most of the imagews on the net are collectors stuff. Difficult to find a good smith. They know little of hardening apart from quenching in water. Dropped in a bath of oil to temper I'm sure would work wonders. Only other thing is that hook shape on the hilt. Gets in the way when you try to grip with the pinky.

 I've taken Japanese blades into the jungle to use but as yet have found nothing to beat that kukri shape. Makes a nice 45 deg cut through a 10" banana stem.


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## moonhill99 (Apr 1, 2015)

I believe only females should be allowed to carry pepper spray or stun gun in public.

Only guys with clear record and living in high crime area should be allowed to get permanent to carry pepper spray.


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## Dirty Dog (Apr 2, 2015)

moonhill99 said:


> I believe only females should be allowed to carry pepper spray or stun gun in public.
> 
> Only guys with clear record and living in high crime area should be allowed to get permanent to carry pepper spray.



Yeah. You're not sexist at all. 
I'll keep my gun, thanks. 


Sent from an old fashioned 300 baud acoustic modem by whistling into the handset. Really.


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## tshadowchaser (Apr 2, 2015)

I think a good lawyer is a good defense weapon


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## Tez3 (Apr 2, 2015)

moonhill99 said:


> I believe only females should be allowed to carry pepper spray or stun gun in public.
> 
> Only guys with clear record and living in high crime area should be allowed to get permanent to carry pepper spray.




So obviously males don't get attacked, robbed or raped.

Stun gun?

Males to get permanent what?


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## Instructor (Apr 3, 2015)

moonhill99 said:


> I believe only females should be allowed to carry pepper spray or stun gun in public.
> 
> Only guys with clear record and living in high crime area should be allowed to get permanent to carry pepper spray.


 
Females do not have a monopoly on getting attacked.. Trust me on this.


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## moonhill99 (Apr 12, 2015)

Dirty Dog said:


> Yeah. You're not sexist at all.
> I'll keep my gun, thanks.
> 
> 
> Sent from an old fashioned 300 baud acoustic modem by whistling into the handset. Really.



Yes normally the case why people can't have tasers or pepper spray in public is fear of robbery and used on females.

People say that if you allow guys to have tasers or pepper spray in public than rape and robbery on females would go up. Than reason why you cannot have tasers or pepper spray in public.

But law allowing only females to have it could pass with out massive protests of females saying that robbery and rape on females would be very high if they allow it.


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## Hyoho (Apr 12, 2015)

Pepper spray is not much use in a confined space. Even worst if you are downwind


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## Buka (Apr 12, 2015)

moonhill99 said:


> People say that if you allow guys to have tasers or pepper spray in public than rape and robbery on females would go up. Than reason why you cannot have tasers or pepper spray in public.



Can't say I've ever heard of anyone saying that. But, then, I've never seen a unicorn either.


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## jks9199 (Apr 12, 2015)

moonhill99 said:


> Yes normally the case why people can't have tasers or pepper spray in public is fear of robbery and used on females.
> 
> People say that if you allow guys to have tasers or pepper spray in public than rape and robbery on females would go up. Than reason why you cannot have tasers or pepper spray in public.
> 
> But law allowing only females to have it could pass with out massive protests of females saying that robbery and rape on females would be very high if they allow it.


Where is this?  Who are these "people"?


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## Blaze Dragon (May 11, 2015)

Something I think is worth considering is in regards to an article I read that my brother sent me a while back.

Choosing a knife to carry

the point is you might be all ready to go and have your awesome tactical survival weapons from hell and any attacker is going down...but yeah you get in the situation and your @$$ is in jail for murder. I think something to keep in mind is your weapon of choice needs to be practical and something that you could justify having in a court of law. The article I posted recommends staying away from anything that is auto open, or is called "tactical" if it's a blade. a knife should be a utility weapon that you applied to self defense...

I think the same goes for anything you are considering using, brass knuckles, taser, shuriken, spikes, collapsible baton, kubotan etc. Can you defend in a court of law why  you where carrying it? convince a judge and your peers that you needed to have it on you for self defense? and that you used it as a last resort? That you where not looking for trouble?

self defense is about being the one to walk away when S*#t goes down. It doesn't mean being battle ready for a gang fight. IMO

Just some food for thought...


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## Hyoho (May 11, 2015)

BlazeLeeDragon said:


> Something I think is worth considering is in regards to an article I read that my brother sent me a while back.
> 
> Choosing a knife to carry
> 
> ...


As I mentioned in post 114 this did happen to me. I walked into a gang fight from an alleyway and was grabbed from behind by two guys. The police question the fact that I had a knife. Possibly lucky for me the other people arrested told the police that at no time did I draw it. Carrying 'anything' that might be used as weapon may be used against you. People have eyes. They have testicles. Why carry anything?


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## Dirty Dog (May 11, 2015)

Hyoho said:


> As I mentioned in post 114 this did happen to me. I walked into a gang fight from an alleyway and was grabbed from behind by two guys. The police question the fact that I had a knife. Possibly lucky for me the other people arrested told the police that at no time did I draw it. Carrying 'anything' that might be used as weapon may be used against you. People have eyes. They have testicles. Why carry anything?



If you are legally allowed to carry, the answer is simple. Because street fights are not tournaments. There IS no fair play or equal chances. I'm going to do anything I can to stack the odds as far in my favor as possible. For me, in the USA, that means I carry a gun at all times and in all places where it is legal to do so.


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