# Any Preppers on the board?



## Kong Soo Do (Aug 20, 2012)

Do we have any _preppers_ here?  I'm not talking about prepping for a zombie or martial invasion, rather for natural disasters, economic hard times/collapse, terrorist attacks etc.  

Who has a B.O.B. (bug-out-bag)?

Who has a G.H.B. (get-home-bag)?

Who has an E.D.C. (every-day-carry)?

Last year my wife watched an interview with the author of 'When All Plans Fail' (don't remember the author).  He's a medical Dr. who travels with emergency reaction teams to different countries when a hurricane, tsunami, earthquake etc happens.  He wrote the book with advice and check lists that made good common sense.

I've also read Cody Lundin's (Dual Survival) two books, _98.6 Degrees The Art of Keeping Your **** Alive_ and _When Disaster Strikes Things You Need to Know to Stay Alive_.  Great resources for everyday survival needs such as different ways to make fire, how to disinfect drinking water, emergency survival kits etc.

I've got a GHB in each vehicle, a BOB at the house and carry and EDC most of the time along with my off-duty firearm.  Simple things such as a lighter (I don't smoke but it's the easiest way to make fire), firesteel, a magnesium bar w/striker, cotton balls w/vasaline and hand sanitizer (I think it is important to be as redundant as possible in some critical areas).  Also carry a small LED flashlight.  I have several CREE LED flashlights where the LED is suppose to have a 100,000 hour life.  Three of them use AA's, some AAA's and I have one that has a special 18650 battery that throws about 1300 lumens about the length of a football field or more.  It also has medium and low settings, strobe effect and flashes SOS if necessary.  All this stuff is really light and fits in a small fanny pack that also fits my off-duty .40 S&W.

Anyone else?


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## zDom (Aug 21, 2012)

My girlfriend and I are balancing "readiness" with "enjoying life in the U.S.A."

We do have bug out bags, but they aren't as well-equipped as they should be

I do have and carry an EDC (S&W 442 w/ Crimson Trace).

We are armed, semi-stocked on ammunition. (Funny: mainstream media would call 500 rounds an "alarming ammunition stockpile" when really that is just enough ammo for 5-10 practice sessions for a single person).

We have discussed and are starting to get ahead on our bottled water rather than just buying what we use in a shopping period.

I'd like to have some more food tucked away, but we could probably make it a week or two without going without if we ate conservatively.

I like the idea of a GHB, and might suggest we put a couple of those together.. but then, we haven't completed our BOBs yet.

Flashlights? Check.

Lighters? Check.

Off-duty .40 cal? Check  (Of course my duties don't require me to be armed  )

Survival books? Check.

I'd like to get one of those water purifiers. I'd like to get a generator. I'd like to build a secure tower (something like Orthanc would do, but with solar panels ... I really, REALLY like electricity ...). Have a location picked out but that much cut stone and labor aren't going to be cheap.

I'd like to have one of those boxcar bunkers ... but not as much as I'd like to have a 2012 Dodge Challenger


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## elder999 (Aug 21, 2012)

We not only have bug-out bags, we have a bug-out truck-in addition to a sea vessel capable of going anywhere in the world. And a share in a plane.

I think home preparation is more important than being prepared to run. I think having somewhere to run _*to*_ is also more important.

I think most of what you've listed is good. I think most of what we have in addition to that isn't really worth sharing, or is _none of anyone's business.

_Though  I might make mention of passports, and gold coins for barter......maybe an extra watch or two.


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## smithr (Aug 21, 2012)

I just ordered a few books from Amazon:
[FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica][SIZE=-1]- Build the Perfect Bug Out Bag: Your 72-Hour Disaster Survival Kit
[/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica][SIZE=-1]- 98.6 Degrees: The Art of Keeping Your *** Alive[/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica][SIZE=-1]
 - Bushcraft: Outdoor Skills and Wilderness Survival[/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica][SIZE=-1]
[/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica][SIZE=-1]- Finding Your Way Without Map or Compass[/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica][SIZE=-1]

I am also going to buy emergency sleeping bags, maybe a small portable water filter, and other items after reading more on this subject. 

My wife and I did get stranded in our car once. A freak snow/ice storm came thru Alabama-Georgia-TN. We were stranded on the highway, along with a lot of other people, north of Atlanta.  We had food, water, blankets, and we were able to live in the car for a few days. You never know when or where you will need a survival kit.
[/SIZE][/FONT]


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## Blindside (Aug 21, 2012)

Yes.

And thats all you get.


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## zDom (Aug 21, 2012)

Yeah, the Ice Storm of January 2009 is what got me thinking.

My apartment was out of power for nine days.


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## Tez3 (Aug 21, 2012)

Wow, I've been reading this and thinking we really are completely different cultures or at the least very different countries. No one thinks like this here. 
I know peoiple will think that's probably short sighted of us but we manage.


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## elder999 (Aug 21, 2012)

Tez3 said:


> Wow, I've been reading this and thinking we really are completely different cultures or at the least very different countries. No one thinks like this here.
> I know peoiple will think that's probably short sighted of us but we manage.



We have way more extreme weather than you do, just for starters, Irene.

For starters, look at Hurricane Katrina, and what a disaster that was for so many people who couldn't get out of New Orleans, and how much better it would have been if they were better prepared.


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## Makalakumu (Aug 21, 2012)

I don't have anything prepared. Nothing at all...


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## Tez3 (Aug 21, 2012)

elder999 said:


> We have way more extreme weather than you do, just for starters, Irene.
> 
> For starters, look at Hurricane Katrina, and what a disaster that was for so many people who couldn't get out of New Orleans, and how much better it would have been if they were better prepared.




I think though we have also worked out over the centuries where to live and where not to as well!. Your weather may be more extreme but a lot of places aren't really suitable for living in. Forest fires have been common for millennia but only become dangerous to man when man decides to build his houses in or near the forests. Tornadoes have raged across the same country for millennia also but again are only dangerous to man because man built homes in their path. Nature is nature, you can't change it, being prepared would be not living in dangerous places to start with! 

The Japanese thought they had taken proper precautions against tsunamis but the last proved you can't really ever been prepared.


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## James Kovacich (Aug 21, 2012)

Kong Soo Do said:


> Do we have any _preppers_ here?  I'm not talking about prepping for a zombie or martial invasion, rather for natural disasters, economic hard times/collapse, terrorist attacks etc.
> 
> Who has a B.O.B. (bug-out-bag)?
> 
> ...



Hell yea! Besides our earthquake emergency bags I have for each vehicle hiking survival bags. The survival shows opened up my eyes to expand my emergency bags to survival bags. That along with the fact I went off the trail and got lost in a Central CA state park. I have an Magellan handheld gps and numerous compasses, none of which I took! Walked in circkes for 2 hrs. Really thought I was staying overnight but somehow found my way back.

Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk


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## elder999 (Aug 21, 2012)

Tez3 said:


> I think though we have also worked out over the centuries where to live and where not to as well!. Your weather may be more extreme but a lot of places aren't really suitable for living in.



They're all suitable for living in, with the proper preparation. New Orleans is no more dangerous than Amsterdam.



Tez3 said:


> Forest fires have been common for millennia but only become dangerous to man when man decides to build his houses in or near the forests.



Once upon a time, we *all* lived in the forest-and you're kind of misstating the problem: forest fires became dangerous to man when we started putting them out all the time/



Tez3 said:


> Tornadoes have raged across the same country for millennia also but again are only dangerous to man because man built homes in their path.



Once upon a time, men lived in homes made of cloth in their path.



Tez3 said:


> Nature is nature, you can't change it, being prepared would be not living in dangerous places to start with!



I've been all over the world. Never found a place that *wasn't* a "dangerous place".....:lol:

We're part of "nature," though, and realizing _that_ is the first step towards preparation.....



Tez3 said:


> The Japanese thought they had taken proper precautions against tsunamis but the last proved you can't really ever been prepared.




Well, that's an engineering thing-they engineered for the "hundred year tsunami," and they got the "millenial tsunami," which is what I've said nukes should be designed to for close to 30 years now, "millenial events."

And what would you have us do? Relocate the entire west coast due to earthquake danger, and Alaska, too? Alaska especially, what with the added danger of freezing to death? The Dakotas, Montana, Wisconsin and Minnesota due to ice and flooding? The entire length of the Mississippi due to flooding? Florida due to flooding, hurricanes and sinkholes? Heck, New Mexico, Colorado and Wyoming are all part of the Yellowstone supervolcano complex. 

Of course, there's no preparing for the eruption of an enormous, long dormant volcano (in fact, we're *due*, geologically speaking) but there are things to prepare for, and ways to prepare. 

I'll bet the various Europeans who emigrated to these shores understood that-though your attitude does explain the blatant ineptitude of the English Puritans we came to call the Pilgrims....:lfao:


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## Blindside (Aug 21, 2012)

Tez3 said:


> I think though we have also worked out over the centuries where to live and where not to as well!. Your weather may be more extreme but a lot of places aren't really suitable for living in. Forest fires have been common for millennia but only become dangerous to man when man decides to build his houses in or near the forests. Tornadoes have raged across the same country for millennia also but again are only dangerous to man because man built homes in their path. Nature is nature, you can't change it, being prepared would be not living in dangerous places to start with!
> 
> The Japanese thought they had taken proper precautions against tsunamis but the last proved you can't really ever been prepared.



Uh, the only thing man figured out how to do over the centuries was to live in damn near every environment.  It is a poor survival strategy to compete for only tectonically and meterologically stable arable lands.  The problem is that people are so used to living with modern conveniences (like heat, running water, and electricity) that they aren't prepared for when those aren't available.


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## Tez3 (Aug 22, 2012)

I don't think my attitude exactly explains the English Puritans lol seeing as I'm a half Dutch half Scottish Jew! The Puritans would have had me put to death most likely, we certainly wouldn't have been welcome that's for sure. My people manage to survive all over the world in conditions that most people would have died in so not such a good comparison really.
I expect that living in the more primitive conditions of the UK means we are less likely to be concerned with losing the 'home comforts' as we have less of them besides in any emergency we always and we always have the WRVS through thick and thin, they are there. 

I expect too after invasions by Angles, Saxons, Romans, Vikings and Normans as well as threats of invasions,a few civil wars, the Blitz, the IRA etc the British have got used to making do without a fuss and without actually coining a new noun. I can say that as I'm not actually British, I spend a lot of time looking at the British and observing their behaviour which in an emergency is superb I must say.


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## Kong Soo Do (Aug 22, 2012)

zDom said:


> I'd like to get one of those water purifiers.



We use Sawyer filters http://sawyer.com/

Specifically *Sawyer Personal Water Bottle with Filter** [SP140]* and *Sawyer Point ZeroTWO&#8482; Bucket Purifier Assembly Kit [SP190] 

*They're rated for one million gallons and can be back-flushed in the field. Filters out giardia and cryptosporidiosis and other little nastys. 

There is also simple tincure idodine drops from the local drug store or even common bleach. There is also the SODIS method http://www.sodis.ch/methode/anwendung/index_EN

Of course boiling is a great option if you have the time and a fuel source. There are also several methods for making a solar still. They don't produce a tremdous amount of water, but something is better than nothing of course.


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## Kong Soo Do (Aug 22, 2012)

smithr said:


> I just ordered a few books from Amazon:
> [SIZE=-1]- Build the Perfect Bug Out Bag: Your 72-Hour Disaster Survival Kit
> [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]- 98.6 Degrees: The Art of Keeping Your *** Alive[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]
> - Bushcraft: Outdoor Skills and Wilderness Survival[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]
> ...



98.6 Degrees is a fantastic book!  So is Cody's other book I mentioned above.  I've got them in paper back, but I'm thinking about getting them in e-book format for my NOOK.  

Emergency sleeping bags and blankets are a great idea also.  Two biggest killers are hypothermia and hyperthermia.  The bags/blankets can help you out in both departments as well as a signalling device.

I always recommend several ways to start a fire beyond just a lighter.  Fire can be used for so many purposes, particularly in a survival situation.  Lighters, matches (preferably wind/water proof), firesteel, magnesium bars, cotton balls with vasaline or chapstick (both are petroleum products and will cause the cotton ball to burn for up to 10 minutes to get a fire going), dryer lint (towel lint works best as many clothes are fire-retardent), hand sanitizer etc.

http://firesteel.com/

Signal mirror.  I have the kind that has the small meshed focus hole in the center.  Got in off Amazon for about $5.

CREE LED flashights!!!!  100,000 hours of run time on the LED.  I've gotten several off Ebay for around $5-$7 with free shipping.  The Sipik and Sipik clones run 300 lumens on a single AA.  Some models are 3-mode with high/low/strobe.  And they will throw the light a looong way.  You can also get 400 lumens and up that run on 3 AAA's or a single 14500 battery.  I have one that throws 1400 lumen on a single 18650 battery that has high/medium/low/strobe/SOS functions.  Came with 2x18650 batteries and a charger for $17 off Ebay.  

I've also got several 'higher end' flashlights like the Maglite XL50, again off ebay for less than $20 (I like bargains!!!) and an LED Streamlight Stinger.  I've also got a bunch of Mini-Maglites for the cars and around the house.  And hey...hard to beat the free 9 LED flashlights at Harbor Freight


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## ballen0351 (Aug 22, 2012)

I need to get cracking on this.  I keep saying I want to and other then gins and ammo I'm pretty far behind.


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## Kong Soo Do (Aug 22, 2012)

ballen0351 said:


> I need to get cracking on this. I keep saying I want to and other then gins and ammo I'm pretty far behind.



It's like anything really, a little here and a little there and before you know it you're ahead of the curve.

I think the motivational thing is that the infrastructure and power grid of any modern country really isn't very hard to disrupt from either a natural disaster or man-made event.  Too many people are dependent on the infrastructure and grid and really wouldn't know what to do if/when they fail.  

On top of that is being stranded in your vehicle as has been mentioned already in the thread.  These types of things just aren't how we expect the day to unfold, but yet it does happen from time to time.


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## Carol (Aug 24, 2012)

The neat thing about preparing for an emergency is that you are better prepared for inconveniences and troublesome situations that occur more often than emergencies.   When a LEO here on MT heard I liked to hike and spend time in the back country, he recommended I purchase one of those Duracell power packs for the car that can jump start the engine, inflate the tires, provide emergency lighting, and a voltage inverter/power outlet.  The whole rig runs on a rechargeable lead-acid battery (the kind used to power wheelchairs) so it is also a portable source of power.  I think I've only used the jumper cables once, but I've used that darn inverter more times than I can count.   The technical (microfiber) clothing that I keep in my car for emergencies or trips away once came to my aid when a colleague accidentally dowsed me with coffee -- on a day the big execs were coming to the office with customers (priceless!).  Having non-perishable, high-protein food in the car as well as water has been helpful on one occasion.  I don't think I have ever regretted NOT carrying the things I have with me.

My "bug out bags" aren't exactly planning for the end of the world, but they are pre-packed bags so I can quickly pack the car (and the cat) to get out of dodge.  That might be because there is an incoming ice storm and I want to drive to my beloved mountains to escape the storm and have a good day in the wilderness while I'm at it...or it may just be so I can escape town for a short holiday before I get another phone call from my boss asking me if I could do something else before I leave. :lol:

I refined the practice because I go up north hiking so often, its easier to have a certain number of things pre-packed, instead of constantly running around the night before to pack and repack the same things.  For example, I keep cat litter in the car at all times.  It might help get my AWD Honda unstuck someday, it will definitely help the next time I travel with the cat.  I don't usually wear my technical clothing when I am not hiking, rather than keeping it in a drawer, I keep it in a duffel bag along with bottles of my usual toiletries. I keep a bag of plastic kitchen stuff in the car, along with smaller packages of common spices.  I also learned over time that full-size tools and utensils are often more handy, or at least less cumbersome than something such as a multitool.  I keep a few tools with me including kitchen essentials such as a can opener and a corkscrew.  (Who said preparing had to be boring? )

Having lived for most of my life in New England, I'll say this about winter.  I'm not as worried cold snaps, overall.  Heck, I've been snowshoeing on the AT in subzero temps and had a great time...although it helped that the winds were calm.    I'm most worried when the weather is around the freezing point.  That's when icing happens.  Even if icing does not occur, and you are on the "rain" side of the freezing point, its easy to get wet and cold, which could put the body at greater risk for hypothermia (or other exposure problems) than colder temperatures. As zDom notes, you don't have to live in a northern state to have winter really make things difficult.

Last deadly storm that hit my area was the infamous Halloween Storm of 2011.   After watching the storm move towards New England, I could not envision how the snow was going to turn to rain as the forecasters were saying.  I ultimately decided that sticking around wasn't worth the risk, so I packed up to head north, which was predicted to be 50 miles above the storm.     As I was heading up, the forecast changed to snow -- and a lot of it.  I had made my reservation before the power companies started filling up nearby rooms up north with tree techs and electricians from other states. There were a few flakes falling but nothing that made travel difficult.  I spent the weekend at a modest hotel in a mountain town.  I watched 3-6 inches of light snow fall while my city got clobbered with at least two feet of the wet heavy stuff.  While my colleagues and neighbours were dealing with no power and no heat, I had a pile of photos to process and admire, a piece of fresh game from a local coop on the grill, a glass of wine in my hand, and the tabby cat contentedly purring on a blanket.  

Preparing = a great weekend in the woods when nearly everyone I know was miserable.  I'll take that trade-off any day! :asian:


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## Brian R. VanCise (Aug 24, 2012)

I would say that I am well prepared to take care of my family in an emergency.  I have and continue to make regular contributions to our emergency preparedness.  In the event of an natural emergency (ie. earthquake, flood, etc.) or a man made one I think we will have an advantage and also be able to help others along the way.  I think if you are serious about your Martial Science and your ability to protect your family that it is natural to have plans in place for all sorts of emergencies!


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## jezr74 (Aug 25, 2012)

Tez3 said:


> Wow, I've been reading this and thinking we really are completely different cultures or at the least very different countries. No one thinks like this here.
> I know peoiple will think that's probably short sighted of us but we manage.



I have to agree, I'm an Australian living in MA, US for 2 years. I've had more culture shock moving here than time spent in Asian countries. We just don't think that way, might grab some tinned food, and have an exit plan, about it.

Our family is well spread, rural, urban etc and some live in what would be considered dangerous territory, they would have exit plans for an emergency but that would be about it, maybe strategic hoses for fires but not much more.


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## Kong Soo Do (Aug 25, 2012)

jezr74 said:


> I have to agree, I'm an Australian living in MA, US for 2 years. I've had more culture shock moving here than time spent in Asian countries. We just don't think that way, might grab some tinned food, and have an exit plan, about it.
> 
> Our family is well spread, rural, urban etc and some live in what would be considered dangerous territory, they would have exit plans for an emergency but that would be about it, maybe strategic hoses for fires but not much more.



In case of a natural, or man-made emergency where the power grid and infrastructure have been compromised, what would you do for food, shelter, water, first aid, self-protection etc?


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## jezr74 (Aug 25, 2012)

Kong Soo Do said:


> In case of a natural, or man-made emergency where the power grid and infrastructure have been compromised, what would you do for food, shelter, water, first aid, self-protection etc?



We have had natural disasters through Australia over recent years with floods and fires, few cyclones, ten years of drought etc. Generally a rally point is ovals at schools for fire prone areas and high ground for flooding.

Generally my experience and what I've seen happen is the communities rally together and have a zone to collectively ration supplies. And\or have a safe zone stocked with food and supplies that everyone would use. This is for areas that are more susceptible to something happening.

I've been without power for days before when I lived in Queensland and was able to survive off what I had in the house, we always have a first-aid kit. And pooled our supplies with the immediate local neighbors... and that generally propagated out depending on peoples needs, some people had nothing to offer, others had heaps. We all just took it in our stride. It was a lot harder for single parents with kids, but everyone helped out.

Self protection never play a thought to be honest, there have been reports of looters etc... but can't recall ever hearing of any violent encounters.

Not sure how it stacks up compared to the twisters I have heard about that happen further south from where I live now. If I had a house in the area and prone to have these come through, I would likely have a basement with some rations and blankets. 

I've been advised that the New England winters can be harsh and I should keep blankets and food in the boot of the car in case of blizzards. I've been warned but will likely never get around to it..


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## elder999 (Aug 25, 2012)

And this:



jezr74 said:


> I've been advised that the New England winters can be harsh and I should keep blankets and food in the boot of the car in case of blizzards. I've been warned but will likely never get around to it..




is how the unprepared die.

In the Jemez, it wasn't unusual for a good snowfall to put us out of power for a week, and we might even be stuck at the house for a day or two. Once or twice we left work, had to park the truck and snowshoe into the house-where we had a diesel generator, a radio for communication, and several month's worth of food and water-this one, I don't understand how anyone could not do, once they realize how easy it is to have several months of unperishables and an adequate water supply, and the variety of ways such a supply could become essential.


Likewise, not having your vehicle prepared (here in the high desert, we have to have water in the car as well as winter preparation) is something I don't understand. You have a spare and a jack, why not a coupla gallons of water, some roadside breakdown stuff, jumper cables, blankets, etc.?


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## Kong Soo Do (Aug 25, 2012)

elder999 said:


> Likewise, not having your vehicle prepared (here in the high desert, we have to have water in the car as well as winter preparation) is something I don't understand. You have a spare and a jack, why not a coupla gallons of water, some roadside breakdown stuff, jumper cables, blankets, etc.?



What do you store the water in while in your vehicle?  I always worry about leeching if kept in plastic when the temp gets up there in the vehicle.

Road side stuff is common sense and something you're glad you took the time to do when you need it.  I've got rain gear in each vehicle (nothing fancy, just simple rain jackets that can be picked up at the dollar store), those emergency blankets which also make a good improvised shelter/signal device, flashlights (cause flashlights are my fetish) etc.  

A tidbit to toss out there, get some reflective tape from Wally world and put strips of it on things like the first aid kit, GHB etc.  That way if you're on the side of the road with a flat or whatever, you can put these things out a little ways from your vehicle (at night of course) where oncoming traffic start 'seeing' you on the side of the road in advance of actually getting up to you.  This in addition to flares and emergency lights and such.  

Also a handy thing is a reflective vest that only costs a few bucks.  If you're changing a flat or whatever at night it pays to be as visible as possible.  And of course in an emergency situation where you're trying to be spotted it comes in handy.


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## elder999 (Aug 25, 2012)

Kong Soo Do said:


> What do you store the water in while in your vehicle? I always worry about leeching if kept in plastic when the temp gets up there in the vehicle.



If it came down to dying of thirst, or "leeched plastic," I know which I'd choose. Of course, some say that people have been found dead beside dirty, muddy water that was perfectly good to drink.....

There's stainless  steel containers, anyway....:lol:


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## Kong Soo Do (Aug 25, 2012)

elder999 said:


> If it came down to dying of thirst, or "leeched plastic," I know which I'd choose. Of course, some say that people have been found dead beside dirty, muddy water that was perfectly good to drink.....
> 
> There's stainless  steel containers, anyway....:lol:



I understand what you're saying, I was just curious what you've done.  I also catch rain with 5 rain barrels, but wonder about any chemical run-off from the roof.  I know that I could make it safe for drinking by boiling it and catching the condensation i.e. distilling it.  And it has a plethora of other uses of course.


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## jezr74 (Aug 25, 2012)

I don't think I have a true appreciation for what a winter will be like here, I'm thinking once it starts getting cold I might make the time to put in some of those space blankets  and at least water.


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## Kong Soo Do (Aug 25, 2012)

jezr74 said:


> I don't think I have a true appreciation for what a winter will be like here, I'm thinking once it starts getting cold I might make the time to put in some of those space blankets  and at least water.



Good idea.  Anything you do now just puts you ahead of the curve should the need arise.  Like the spare tire mentioned above, you don't want a flat, you don't go looking for a flat, but sometimes it happens.  When it does you depend on that spare in the trunk.  A little here and a little there can go a long way should you ever need it.


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## Carol (Aug 25, 2012)

elder999 said:


> If it came down to dying of thirst, or "leeched plastic," I know which I'd choose. Of course, some say that people have been found dead beside dirty, muddy water that was perfectly good to drink.....
> 
> There's stainless  steel containers, anyway....:lol:



Also certain plastic bottles (recycling code 1) are used to decontaminate water using sunlight and warm temps alone.


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## elder999 (Aug 25, 2012)

Carol said:


> Also certain plastic bottles (recycling code 1) are used to decontaminate water using sunlight and warm temps alone.



I did not think of that! 

And, having reviewed the process, I'd have to say "decontaminate, but not necessarily completely."  A lot is going to depend upon the source of the water, and ambient temperatures-the method in question could be a breeding ground for bacteria.....neat trick, though!


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## Kong Soo Do (Aug 26, 2012)

Carol said:


> Also certain plastic bottles (recycling code 1) are used to decontaminate water using sunlight and warm temps alone.



This is the SODIS method.  According to their site, if the water is clear, 6 hours of direct UV (sunlight) should kill water-borne pathogens.  If the water is cloudy, it may take up to 2 days to fully work.  I'm sure a lot of this is subject to where you live, how much direct sunlight you get etc.


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## elder999 (Aug 26, 2012)

Kong Soo Do said:


> This is the SODIS method. According to their site, if the water is clear, 6 hours of direct UV (sunlight) should kill water-borne pathogens. If the water is cloudy, it may take up to 2 days to fully work. I'm sure a lot of this is subject to where you live, how much direct sunlight you get etc.



And what was in the water in the first place; dirt and algae can provide shielding from UV.


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## Carol (Aug 26, 2012)

jezr74 said:


> I don't think I have a true appreciation for what a winter will be like here, I'm thinking once it starts getting cold I might make the time to put in some of those space blankets  and at least water.



Personally I would recommend extra bottles of washer fluid...they are good for defrosting the snow/ice in case you get stuck, plus in winter you will be using a lot more to keep your windshield clear.  Also recommend a can of Fix A Flat (getting stuck can wear your tires out...especially if they are not in optimal condition) and a pair of jumper cables.  The colder the temperature, the more work the battery has to do to start the car...which also means its easy for an old battery or an accidental goof (a map light left on, etc) to cause trouble in colder temps than in warmer temps.  Those to me are essentials, next for me would be an extra cell charger, bottled water and protein bars.

Also, good winter prep is not just about a collection of stuff in the car.  Good tires and a good battery will go a long way, so will keeping your wits about you.  If you can get away with not driving in the messy stuff, don't.  Pay close attention to the weather forecasts...especially for the towns where you live and work.Mass. is a small state, but the weather, especially in winter, is nowhere near uniform.  A storm that might bring snow to the south shore may only bring rain on the north shore.  A storm where only a few inches are predicted inside 128 may bring 6 to 12 north and west of 495.  Last winter was a lot milder than usual.


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## Carol (Aug 26, 2012)

Kong Soo Do said:


> This is the SODIS method.  According to their site, if the water is clear, 6 hours of direct UV (sunlight) should kill water-borne pathogens.  If the water is cloudy, it may take up to 2 days to fully work.  I'm sure a lot of this is subject to where you live, how much direct sunlight you get etc.



Not something I would personally count on being this far north...but its enough for me to not get too concerned about plastic water bottles in the car.


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## Blindside (Aug 26, 2012)

Carol said:


> Not something I would personally count on being this far north...but its enough for me to not get too concerned about plastic water bottles in the car.



Just a word of warning, I have had plastic bottles start pinholing after repeated freeze thaws, fun thing to find out that your car GHB has that funky mildew smell coming from it...


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## Kong Soo Do (Sep 5, 2012)

Prep poll for those interested:

http://safecastle.blogspot.com/2012/09/poll-your-prepper-posture-september-2012.html


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## Carol (Nov 11, 2012)

Kong Soo Do said:


> We use Sawyer filters http://sawyer.com/
> 
> Specifically *Sawyer Personal Water Bottle with Filter** [SP140]* and *Sawyer Point ZeroTWO Bucket Purifier Assembly Kit [SP190]
> 
> ...



I borrowed a friend's Sawyer Personal Water Bottle this weekend and was quite impressed.  My friend was sold on them, and said The Sawyer family was originally from southern NH and made kidney dialysis filters somewhere in Boston's biotech belt.  The company has migrated to create water filters.  

The bottle is 1L and was easy to fill and easy to use, even in chilly (35F) temps.  The water tasted great.  It was relatively easy to clean, the bottle has a special syringe to wash the filter through back pressure.  The filter is apparently good for life (1 million gallons!!).  It is plastic and very light...not so good for folks who prefer aluminum, but great for ultralight/imperfect hikers like me who try to reduce every ounce of carry weight possible.

Using the bottle is as simple as unscrewing the cap, filling the bottle, and rescrewing the cap.  This was helpful because when you fill a bottle from a mountain stream, your hands will get wet.  And when temps are in the 30s...the water is COLD.  I was glad to be able to get a drink without a need to operate a pump or other manual device with my cold, dead, han.....er......numb, tingly fingers.

Only downside that is that the bottle had no gear loop so I could clip to to the front of my pack.  The bottle does have a recessed area so a lanyard and clip could be improvised.  I think I will be picking one up.


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## Kong Soo Do (Nov 14, 2012)

I've been pretty impressed with the Sawyer.  As you mentioned, some prefer aluminum and I understand why as far as being able to boil the water/make soup etc.  But I figure with the Sawyer, boiling will pretty much be unnecessary.  

You mentioned ultralight hiking.  Can you give me some tips on the types of stuff you carry.  I have an ALICE pack (large) as a B.O.B. and figured on using it for hiking/camping as well but don't know how it stacks up to other types of light packs.  Thanks.


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## Blindside (Nov 14, 2012)

Kong Soo Do said:


> I've been pretty impressed with the Sawyer.  As you mentioned, some prefer aluminum and I understand why as far as being able to boil the water/make soup etc.  But I figure with the Sawyer, boiling will pretty much be unnecessary.
> 
> You mentioned ultralight hiking.  Can you give me some tips on the types of stuff you carry.  I have an ALICE pack (large) as a B.O.B. and figured on using it for hiking/camping as well but don't know how it stacks up to other types of light packs.  Thanks.



I haven't been seriously backpacking in years (kids), but when I was going for both distance and weight savings my 3 day overnight pack was down to about 25 pounds (four of that was the pack).  Most of that weight is a sleeping bag in an internal frame pack.  I was talking about backpacking with my cousin, he mentioned that his weekend backpack was down to 14 pounds, but he lives in San Diego so he packs less in terms of cold weather gear.  Your ALICE pack is way more than you need for an ultralight setup.


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## Kong Soo Do (Nov 15, 2012)

I think you're right on the ALICE pack.  Makes for a good BOB but probably not the best choice for hiking/camping.  Suggestions would be appreciated.  Preferably choice that are on the frugal side   Perhaps a medium ALICE pack?  I see these all the time on ebay.


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## Carol (Nov 15, 2012)

Alice packs are rather heavy, even the smaller ones.  They are designed more for toughness and size than weight conservation....ultralight becomes a game of ounces.  Be careful when buying used, used packs up for sale may have a lot of wear, or a lot of skank...or both.   

Try to find something on close out....now is actually a really good time as the outfitters have their warmer season gear at good prices.  Your pack is the most important thing you carry, as it holds everything else.

I haven't done any overnight backpacking.  The extent of mine so far have been hikes where I have returned after dark.  I dont know if this would help but I would be happy to share what I carry. 

My "first aid kit" consists of a ziploc bag with bacitracin, cortisone, a few band aids, gauze, sports tape and Advil.  I keep my asthma inhaler in my pocket, unfortunately I can't usually keep that packed away.  I also carry hand sanitizer, 5-6 GU packets and a tube of Nuun tablets.

These sporks by Light My Fire are awesome!  The fork has a serrated edge to be used as a knife.  They are very light, and they are also tough.  The do not scratch your cookware, nor do they pick up stains from your food.

http://www.amazon.com/Light-My-Fire...1353031524&sr=8-2&keywords=lite+my+fire+spork

I have a small esbit stove that a friend made.  If you have the patience for a small aluminum project, making your own stove is a good way to save coin.  I only take this on long hikes, usually with some freeze dried scrambled eggs that I may cook up with some cheese.  Believe it or not, fresh cheese will actually keep well on the trail as long as you keep it out of sunlight and don't touch it with your bare hands.  I bring a ziplock bag for the spent esbit tabs.  I light the tabs with kitchen matches that Icarry in an old Nuun tube (the tubes are waterproof)  I do not carry a lighter, butane is not too dependable in colder temps.

My backpack came with a Camelbak hydration pack.  The Camelbak isn't the best for hiking to be honest, it usually stays home.  I usually water in half-liter plastic bottles.  Not elegant, but practical...I currently have Aquamira drops for purification which requires some waiting, so on longer hikes I fill and innoculate my empty water bottles as I can.  The Aquamira drops are super lightweight, easy, and leave the water tasting drinkable.  I'll add a half of a Nuun tab if the chlorine taste gets to me.  

Emergency stuff....I have a head-mounted lamp, extra batteries, and a bivvy sac.  I should probably get a whistle but I have not.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## James Kovacich (Nov 15, 2012)

Compass compass compass

Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk 2


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## Kong Soo Do (Nov 16, 2012)

I appreciate everyone's thoughts and advice, very much appreciated.  And Carol, thank you for the link to the sporks, never seen those before but very cool.

I have a 5-in-1 Trame Pannier bag coming from ebay.  Small enough for a waist pack or to carry over-shoulder.  I figure I'd use a larger pack to backpack to the camp site, then use this for day hikes while camping.  Also doubles as a good EDC pack.  I got a good deal on ebay for 6 emergency space blankets for under 9 bucks so I toss one or two in the EDC along with the usual magnesium bar, extra firesteel, first aid kit, cotton balls & chapstick, flashlights, a knife or two, rain poncho etc.  

A whistle is a fantastic ideal!  I pick them up at Harbor Freight for 99 cents.  This is where I get the mag bars as well for $1.99 and I've used them, work great.

And James is right, a good compass is a must.  I really need to pick one up.  I hear good things about Silva?


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## jks9199 (Nov 16, 2012)

Silva's one of the best companies for compasses -- but truthfully, you don't need to spend a lot of money on one.  Any decent, liquid filled compass will do the job, and it's not even essential that it be liquid filled.  (Liquid filled are a little steadier).  Don't jump out and by a lensatic compass unless you know how to use it, either.  Any on this page are more than satisfactory.  

I've done bare-minimum backpacking for a couple days with a daypack, rain fly, and hammock.  That pretty much meant eating everything cold, and sleeping in clothes if it got cold.  Better in warmer weather.  For packs -- I'd go to an REI or similar good camping supply place, and examine what they've got.  Find what you like the design and fit of, because there are differences in how they're set up, and the folks at the better shops know how to help you get what you want.  If you want to shop for the same thing cheaper, then, it's up to you.  (Personally, I generally give a place that helps me my business... especially if I know they're on commission and they were honestly helpful, not steering me towards the most expensive stuff.)


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## James Kovacich (Nov 16, 2012)

I haven't said much but I do follow this thread because it highly interests me. I haven't yet purchased any of the 20 year shelf life food yet. I am planning on purchasing a a pack with a good variety hopefully all of the meals and I plan on eating them right away so I know what I like and don't like.

Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk 2


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## Blindside (Nov 16, 2012)

Quite frankly I wouldn't worry about playing the ultralight backpacking game.  Adding ten pounds of weight can provide a lot of luxury on the trail.  Tent instead of a tarp, filtered water instead of purification tablets, propane/white gas stoves instead of sterno/esbit tablets.  My not ultralight 3 day pack load out was more in the 45 pound range, which is pretty comfortable for about 7-10 miles a day, though I did go 14 one time.  

My cousin is trying to recruit me to do the Pacific Crest Trail with him, and if we do that, it will be an ultralight affair as we are going to shoot for 20 miles/day.


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## Blindside (Nov 16, 2012)

James Kovacich said:


> I haven't said much but I do follow this thread because it highly interests me. I haven't yet purchased any of the 20 year shelf life food yet. I am planning on purchasing a a pack with a good variety hopefully all of the meals and I plan on eating them right away so I know what I like and don't like.
> 
> Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk 2



You should also look at long term storage of basics beyond the freeze dried stuff.  Wheat, corn, pasta, rice, barley etc.  The grains will pretty much keep forever if kept in a cool storage location.  My dad and I opened up some of the sealed wheat cans that he packed when I was born (1972), and the grain was perfectly good and ready to be milled.  It is an investment that can literally be handed down to your kids and it is far cheaper than freeze dried foodstuffs.  If you are looking at long-term stores you pretty much have to go that route, the freeze dried stuff is just too expensive.  We went with a mix of those basics and freeze dried.


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## jks9199 (Nov 16, 2012)

Blindside said:


> Quite frankly I wouldn't worry about playing the ultralight backpacking game.  Adding ten pounds of weight can provide a lot of luxury on the trail.  Tent instead of a tarp, filtered water instead of purification tablets, propane/white gas stoves instead of sterno/esbit tablets.  My not ultralight 3 day pack load out was more in the 45 pound range, which is pretty comfortable for about 7-10 miles a day, though I did go 14 one time.
> 
> My cousin is trying to recruit me to do the Pacific Crest Trail with him, and if we do that, it will be an ultralight affair as we are going to shoot for 20 miles/day.



Absolutely!  I did the ultra bare bones stuff to prove I could...  It's been a while, but if I were to go backpacking today -- I'd get a nice pack, definitely carry a stove.  Tents... Depends on where you're hiking.  In the Shenandoah National Park, I've actually found that a hammock is a better option.  It can be a real challenge finding a place to camp, and the hammock/tarp combo magnifies options greatly.  You're not stuck finding 12 to 18 sq ft of level ground, just two trees the right distance apart, and enough of a level spot for your stove.


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## James Kovacich (Nov 16, 2012)

Blindside said:


> You should also look at long term storage of basics beyond the freeze dried stuff.  Wheat, corn, pasta, rice, barley etc.  The grains will pretty much keep forever if kept in a cool storage location.  My dad and I opened up some of the sealed wheat cans that he packed when I was born (1972), and the grain was perfectly good and ready to be milled.  It is an investment that can literally be handed down to your kids and it is far cheaper than freeze dried foodstuffs.  If you are looking at long-term stores you pretty much have to go that route, the freeze dried stuff is just too expensive.  We went with a mix of those basics and freeze dried.



I'm definately going to look more into this.

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## Kong Soo Do (Nov 17, 2012)

jks9199 said:


> Silva's one of the best companies for compasses -- but truthfully, you don't need to spend a lot of money on one.  Any decent, liquid filled compass will do the job, and it's not even essential that it be liquid filled.  (Liquid filled are a little steadier).  Don't jump out and by a lensatic compass unless you know how to use it, either.  Any on this page are more than satisfactory.



Appreciate the links.  I'm planning on looking for a good compass and/or multitool today and whatever other 'goodies' that pop up.



			
				jks9199 said:
			
		

> I've done bare-minimum backpacking for a couple days with a daypack,  rain fly, and hammock.  That pretty much meant eating everything cold,  and sleeping in clothes if it got cold.  Better in warmer weather.  For  packs -- I'd go to an REI or similar good camping supply place, and  examine what they've got.  Find what you like the design and fit of,  because there are differences in how they're set up, and the folks at  the better shops know how to help you get what you want.  If you want to  shop for the same thing cheaper, then, it's up to you.  (Personally, I  generally give a place that helps me my business... especially if I know  they're on commission and they were honestly helpful, not steering me  towards the most expensive stuff.)





			
				Blindside said:
			
		

> Quite frankly I wouldn't worry about playing the ultralight backpacking  game.  Adding ten pounds of weight can provide a lot of luxury on the  trail.  Tent instead of a tarp, filtered water instead of purification  tablets, propane/white gas stoves instead of sterno/esbit tablets.  My  not ultralight 3 day pack load out was more in the 45 pound range, which  is pretty comfortable for about 7-10 miles a day, though I did go 14  one time.
> 
> My cousin is trying to recruit me to do the Pacific Crest Trail with  him, and if we do that, it will be an ultralight affair as we are going  to shoot for 20 miles/day.





			
				jks9199 said:
			
		

> Absolutely!  I did the ultra bare bones stuff to prove I could...  It's  been a while, but if I were to go backpacking today -- I'd get a nice  pack, definitely carry a stove.  Tents... Depends on where you're  hiking.  In the Shenandoah National Park, I've actually found that a  hammock is a better option.  It can be a real challenge finding a place  to camp, and the hammock/tarp combo magnifies options greatly.  You're  not stuck finding 12 to 18 sq ft of level ground, just two trees the  right distance apart, and enough of a level spot for your stove.



I like the idea of a hammock.  Very comfortable.  I have several tents w/carrying case already that are pretty small (for the 1 and 2 man type).  Something to check into.  Looking at going out to Montana next year with my son and my nephew and his son for a backpacking/camping trip (perhaps around a week).  I would definitely take the esbit stove.  I don't yet know the terrain so hammock/tent is still up in the air.  I'll take the Sawyer bottle with me, along with my small iodine bottle.  I'll need to get all the stuff I think I'll need together and see what the weight is.  Go from there.


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## Kong Soo Do (Nov 17, 2012)

James Kovacich said:


> I haven't said much but I do follow this thread because it highly interests me. I haven't yet purchased any of the 20 year shelf life food yet. I am planning on purchasing a a pack with a good variety hopefully all of the meals and I plan on eating them right away so I know what I like and don't like.
> 
> Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk 2





			
				Blindside said:
			
		

> You should also look at long term storage of basics beyond the freeze  dried stuff.  Wheat, corn, pasta, rice, barley etc.  The grains will  pretty much keep forever if kept in a cool storage location.  My dad and  I opened up some of the sealed wheat cans that he packed when I was  born (1972), and the grain was perfectly good and ready to be milled.   It is an investment that can literally be handed down to your kids and  it is far cheaper than freeze dried foodstuffs.  If you are looking at  long-term stores you pretty much have to go that route, the freeze dried  stuff is just too expensive.  We went with a mix of those basics and  freeze dried.



Echoing on Blindside's comments, most of the freeze-dried offerings are extremely high in sodium.  Anywhere from 700m-3000mg per serving.  And adult man only needs around 2000mg per day.  That amount of sodium, over an extended period can effect your health.  Mountain House does have several low-sodium offerings, but as Blindside mentions, it isn't cheap.

We store a lot of pasta, lentils (which we eat a LOT of), canned goods (tuna for example) etc.  This is stuff we enjoy (which is important) and eat regularly.  And it stores well for extended periods of time.  I've thought of ordering one of those 'buckets' of food just as a back-up to what I already have.  But wouldn't have it as my main go-to source of food.  Just in my stored goods I've probably got a good 4-6 weeks of food by just buying a little bit at a time when I shop.  Extra few cans of tuna, couple of bags of lentils.  And if I catch something on sale I stock up since it will last.  For example, I like oatmeal.  I have probably 8 containers of just oatmeal.  Good carbs, easy to make, fills you up and can be 'spiced up' though I like it plain.  I mark everything with a date and then rotate as I use them.  

Plus my wife and her girlfriend are into gardening so we have a good part of the backyard going right now.  Broccoli, tomatoes, kale, onions, lettuce etc along with several types of fruit trees.

Also, consider your water options.  If something was to happen to the infrastructure i.e. water/electricity/services etc what would you do for water?  Hurricane Sandy is a good example of people being both unprepared and infrastructure/grid going off-line.  We have several rain barrels in the backyard that catch rain water from the roof.  Primarily for the garden, but in a pinch can be used for drinking water as well as bathing etc.  Know how to get water and just as important, how to purify/disinfect it.  Iodine, bleach, purification tablets, SODIS, boiling, distilling etc are all options people should be familiar with.

And of course, know and have multiple ways of starting a fire.  Again, looking at Sandy, in some areas the news reported a box of matches going for $10!  You can buy a magnesium bar at Harbor Freight (or whatever is in your area) for as low as $1.99.  And one mag-bar will start hundreds if not thousands of fires (to cook food, purify water, provide warmth, provide protection etc).  Same with firesteel and something as simple as a cotton ball with some vasaline or chapstick smeared on it (both are petroleum based and will allow the cotton ball to burn for several minutes to start a fire), or dryer lint from towels, or alcohol wipes in a first aid kit etc.


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## jks9199 (Nov 17, 2012)

Kong Soo Do said:


> I like the idea of a hammock.  Very comfortable.  I have several tents w/carrying case already that are pretty small (for the 1 and 2 man type).  Something to check into.  Looking at going out to Montana next year with my son and my nephew and his son for a backpacking/camping trip (perhaps around a week).  I would definitely take the esbit stove.  I don't yet know the terrain so hammock/tent is still up in the air.  I'll take the Sawyer bottle with me, along with my small iodine bottle.  I'll need to get all the stuff I think I'll need together and see what the weight is.  Go from there.



You can find very compact hammocks (mine used to pack down to smaller than soup can), so take both.  It's comfy for something to sit or rest in, even if you don't spend the night in it.


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## Kong Soo Do (Nov 18, 2012)

jks9199 said:


> You can find very compact hammocks (mine used to pack down to smaller than soup can), so take both.  It's comfy for something to sit or rest in, even if you don't spend the night in it.



Have you found the need for any type of fly or mosquito netting with the hammock?


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## jks9199 (Nov 18, 2012)

Kong Soo Do said:


> Have you found the need for any type of fly or mosquito netting with the hammock?



Depends on the hammock design, what you're doing with it, and where you are.  I never used mosquito netting.  If I was just using the hammock as a comfy chair, and sleeping in a tent, then I didn't bother with a fly for the hammock unless it was raining.  If I was sleeping in the hammock, unless 100% certain of no rain -- a fly is a must.  There are lots of ways to rig a fly, and one of the first lengthy trips we did with hammocks actually turned out to be rather wet -- but we didn't have a problem.  Some of the hammocks I've seen on the market today integrate rain covers or mosquito netting, or at least look like they do online.  That's getting into the spendy range though...

By the way -- some of the options out there now are a lot more durable than the ones I and my buddies were using...  More expensive  -- but at least you don't have the special experience of laying back, starting to get comfy, and plummeting through to the ground. :uhoh::jaw-dropping::rofl:


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## Carol (Nov 18, 2012)

I also carry some cash, a credit card, and a photocopy of my DL and health insurance card.  Because you never know when you're out in the back country and need to find an ATM.  :lol2:

In all seriousness, I did this after I was in a bike accident riding through farm country in Massachusetts.  I was taken to a city hospital 30 miles away from where I was.  CT scan was negative, I was given a tetanus booster and after a few hours I was feeling a lot more like myself, and released.  No shoes, no ID, no cash, no credit card...all I had was my cell phone and my car keys.  By that time it had gotten late in the night and I was in a not-so-nice part of a not-so-nice city.  I ended up calling several cabs, trying to bribe the cabbies  with a $20 tip (on top of a flat rate $40 fare)  to take me to my car and follow me to an ATM where I'd pay him.  Finally found one that agreed.

The irony isn't lost on me that I got stranded....not in the back country, but 20 miles from home in one of the largest cities in Mass, within a mile or so of my university.  I don't want to be in that scenario again.


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## jks9199 (Nov 18, 2012)

Carol said:


> I also carry some cash, a credit card, and a photocopy of my DL and health insurance card.  Because you never know when you're out in the back country and need to find an ATM.  :lol2:
> 
> In all seriousness, I did this after I was in a bike accident riding through farm country in Massachusetts.  I was taken to a city hospital 30 miles away from where I was.  CT scan was negative, I was given a tetanus booster and after a few hours I was feeling a lot more like myself, and released.  No shoes, no ID, no cash, no credit card...all I had was my cell phone and my car keys.  By that time it had gotten late in the night and I was in a not-so-nice part of a not-so-nice city.  I ended up calling several cabs, trying to bribe the cabbies  with a $20 tip (on top of a flat rate $40 fare)  to take me to my car and follow me to an ATM where I'd pay him.  Finally found one that agreed.
> 
> The irony isn't lost on me that I got stranded....not in the back country, but 20 miles from home in one of the largest cities in Mass, within a mile or so of my university.  I don't want to be in that scenario again.



Excellent advice -- especially carrying identification.  Several years ago, an off-duty officer in a nearby jurisdiction was riding her road bike and was struck by a car.  She had no ID on her -- and the only thing that made the responding officers start checking cops for ID was a cuff key.  That was all that kept her from being a Jane Doe until she recovered consciousness -- and could have been prevented simply by carrying her O/L or even just a copy of it.


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