# John Leoning - from Kajukenbo to where?



## Matt (Nov 11, 2004)

John Leoning was an early Kajukenbo practitioner on the mainland. His school spawned a few innovators and he himself was as much known for innovation as he was for his part as Master Te on the Kung Fu series. 

I know there's at least one former Leoning student around here, so, if you can recall, what was it like. As he adated his kajukenbo, to the point it was no longer really kajukenbo, what was the curriculum and training like? 

Thanks for any insight,

Matt


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## GAB (Nov 11, 2004)

Hi, 

Charles Fisher has a nice webpage dedicated to Sifu John, it is at

www.geocities.com/colosseum/bench/8528/.

Regards, Gary


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## GAB (Nov 12, 2004)

GAB said:
			
		

> Hi,
> 
> Charles Fisher has a nice webpage dedicated to Sifu John, it is at
> 
> ...


 
Hi, This one also www.creatriumonline.com/kajukenbo/.

Regards, Gary


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## John Bishop (Nov 12, 2004)

John Leoning was the first Kajukenbo instructor on the mainland, in 1957.  There are a few of John Leoning's students still around. Some of the better known ones would be the actor "Robert Conrad" from the TV shows "Hawaiian Eye", "Wild Wild West", and "Black Sheep Squadrun". The first "Kajukenbo" displayed on TV was on the "Wild Wild West" tv show. One notable fight was between Conrad and the actor Robert Stroud (who was a early Kajukenbo black belt under Sijo Emperado). 
Leoning's student Carlos Bunda was the first lightweight black belt champion at Ed Parker's "International Karate Championships". He was also one of the few men to beat Chuck Norris in tournament competition. 
Leoning's student Bill Ryusaki is probably best known as the instructor of Benny "the Jet" Urquidez and his brothers and sister. Benny and his sister Lily were both world kickboxing champions. 
Leoning had trained with many notable instructors. Primarily Adriano and Joe Emperado, but also with William Chow, and later Share Lew.  Some confusion about the system he taught arises from the name of Leoning's organization "North American Kung Fu and Karate Association".  He did add some kung fu techniques to his teaching, but he was always a Kajukenbo instructor, as are his students who now teach. 
Some of his senior Kajukenbo students would be: Sijo Victor Gascon, Grandmaster Carlos Bunda, Grandmaster Bill Ryusaki, Grandmaster Ricardo Kingi, and Professor Doug Bunda.  Actually, the only one who dosen't teach Kajukenbo is Victor "Sonny" Gascon.


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## Matt (Nov 12, 2004)

GAB said:
			
		

> Hi,
> 
> Charles Fisher has a nice webpage dedicated to Sifu John, it is at
> 
> ...



Thanks for the link. I've been there before,and it is chock full of information,  but have trouble visualizing some of the typed out stuff. It seems still very much kajukenbo. From what I'd heard, he'd tinkered so much over the years, one wouldn't recognize much if one came in from a kajukenbo school, but perhaps not. 

What was the atmosphere / character of the school while you were there? I'm trying to get a feel for what it was like, as his school was the springboard for the folks who started karazenpo. 

Matt


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## GAB (Nov 12, 2004)

Hi Matt,

Because of his early death (1977) that has been along time ago.

But, none the less there is still quite a lot of information on Sifu John Leoning and Sijo Sonny Gascon. If you go to google or vivisimo both are pretty good search engines... 

Type in the two names together, quite a bit of information comes up concerning them both.

In 1977 two persons died that were very much involved in the formative years of Kajukenbo regarding the Mainland. One was Sifu John Leoning and the other was Sifu Al Reyes.

Sifu Al Reyes was very close to Sijo Emperado while Sijo Gascon and Sifu Leoning did break away and taught slightly different because of a problem that occured at the School in North Hollywood around 1960 +/- a few yrs.

Sigung John Bishop could fill in the blanks since he is the main Historian for the Kajukenbo organization I believe. 

I was involved for a time (mid 60's) with Sifu John Leoning prior to becoming a LEO.
His teaching was a great asset to me in the years that followed and I still train to this day with similar techs and skills. 

I am now a firm believer in FMA, This was the art that Sijo Emperado brought to Kajukenbo, there are so many systems and styles. It is superior to most in my opinion. When people think of FMA they mainly think of sticks, not true, there is much much more to it then that.

Now that I am learning and reading about FMA I see quite a lot of the Art in what I remember in the Basics Sifu John taught and the early Katas.

Not to be confused with the same ones taught today.

Sifu John was from (family) the filipines and he was a good practioner of that also, "copper skin" was his nick name, I believe.

Probably why Sijo Emperado sent him to the mainland and had him teach one of the first schools that was here (both of filipino heritage) Al Reyes also.

If you search you will discover quite a bit of good information on the Man.

A really nice human being.

Regards, Gary


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## Matt (Nov 12, 2004)

John Bishop said:
			
		

> John Leoning was the first Kajukenbo instructor on the mainland, in 1957.  There are a few of John Leoning's students still around. Some of the better known ones would be the actor "Robert Conrad" from the TV shows "Hawaiian Eye", "Wild Wild West", and "Black Sheep Squadrun". The first "Kajukenbo" displayed on TV was on the "Wild Wild West" tv show. One notable fight was between Conrad and the actor Robert Stroud (who was a early Kajukenbo black belt under Sijo Emperado).
> Leoning's student Carlos Bunda was the first lightweight black belt champion at Ed Parker's "International Karate Championships". He was also one of the few men to beat Chuck Norris in tournament competition.
> Leoning's student Bill Ryusaki is probably best known as the instructor of Benny "the Jet" Urquidez and his brothers and sister. Benny and his sister Lily were both world kickboxing champions.
> Leoning had trained with many notable instructors. Primarily Adriano and Joe Emperado, but also with William Chow, and later Share Lew.  Some confusion about the system he taught arises from the name of Leoning's organization "North American Kung Fu and Karate Association".  He did add some kung fu techniques to his teaching, but he was always a Kajukenbo instructor, as are his students who now teach.


I've heard much about the acting, and I had read a bit about him delving into the Chinese arts with Share K. Lew, but much of the literature seemed to paint him as a bit of an explorer, and in one case essentially said he had dropped just about everything to follow Share Lew. I recalled at least one person who mentioned training with him (Gary, I believe) so I thought I'd put the question up here to get a more 'first hand' set of second hand info.:idunno:


> Some of his senior Kajukenbo students would be: Sijo Victor Gascon, Grandmaster Carlos Bunda, Grandmaster Bill Ryusaki, Grandmaster Ricardo Kingi, and Professor Doug Bunda.  Actually, the only one who dosen't teach Kajukenbo is Victor "Sonny" Gascon.



Yes, the references that got me started were the ones in the Victor Gascon backgrounds. John Leoning has been part of the mystery as we on the East Coast try to trace our way back, but he sure sounds like an interesting guy with whom to have trained. 

Now what would really be sweet would be some footage...besides the stuff on TV, because I bet that would not be too representative.

Thanks for the help guys, 

Matt


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## GAB (Nov 12, 2004)

Matt said:
			
		

> Thanks for the link. I've been there before,and it is chock full of information, but have trouble visualizing some of the typed out stuff. It seems still very much kajukenbo. From what I'd heard, he'd tinkered so much over the years, one wouldn't recognize much if one came in from a kajukenbo school, but perhaps not.
> 
> What was the atmosphere / character of the school while you were there? I'm trying to get a feel for what it was like, as his school was the springboard for the folks who started karazenpo.
> 
> Matt


Hi Matt, 

Very good observation regarding the springboard for Sijo Sonny Gascon's Karazenpo.

If you will notice Sijo Gascons Crest, he gave a prominate position to "Buddha".

So did Sifu John Leoning. I did a search on the characters he used with his Crest and they reflect that  thought also " the fighting way of the hand or palm of Buddha".

Sifu Johns Crest also had the yin and yang and the early I Ching Hexagrams on it. I will look it up in my files and if you want, I could send it to you or maybe I could figure a way to send it to this talk board...PM me or e-mail me and I can do it that way with no problems...

Regards, Gary


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## John Bishop (Nov 12, 2004)

Matt:

There were a lot of people who trained under Leoning for a few weeks or months.  But the ones that can help you would be his long time students like the Bunda brothers, John Leoning Jr., or Rick Kingi.  
The reason I can comment on his (Leoning's) Kajukenbo is because my first Kajukenbo instructor was from the Leoning lineage.  So I was taught Leoning's techniques up to Black Belt.  I've sat on black belt boards at Grandmaster Kingi's school and Prof. Bunda's school, so I've also seen the teachings of Leoning's first generation black belts.  
For the last 14 years, I've been under a instructor who is a first generation student of Aleju Reyes, so I've been able to make comparrisons.  Leoning's teachings contain very little kung fu techniques that wasn't already in Kajukenbo.  But, Rick or Doug will be able to describe it betterfor you.     
Tomorrow myself and some of the other senior black belts from Gary Forbach's school will be spending the day with Sijo Emperado, so I will ask him a little more about Leoning.  I will also PM you email addresses for Doug Bunda and Rick Kingi.  I'm not sure if Carlos Bunda uses the internet, but Doug will be able to tell you.  Just tell them I referred you to them.  The Bunda's and Kingi were with Leoning from the 50-60's until he died.


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## Matt (Nov 12, 2004)

GAB said:
			
		

> Hi Matt,
> 
> Because of his early death (1977) that has been along time ago.
> 
> ...



I did that, and though I got quite a bit of info, much of it was conflicting. That's why I thought I might do better here. 


> In 1977 two persons died that were very much involved in the formative years of Kajukenbo regarding the Mainland. One was Sifu John Leoning and the other was Sifu Al Reyes.
> 
> Sifu Al Reyes was very close to Sijo Emperado while Sijo Gascon and Sifu Leoning did break away and taught slightly different because of a problem that occured at the School in North Hollywood around 1960.



That was a tough year for the arts. In addition, Thomas Miyashiro of the Hawaii Seinenkai died the day before John Leoning. I've heard about the 'problem' - it's reverberated throughout the East coast, and it's the local pastime among historians guessing who the visitor was who 'brought the message'. The karazenpo folks have been very good about letting that identity 'fade into history'.



> Sigung John Bishop could fill in the blanks since he is the main Historian for the Kajukenbo organization I believe.



Care to fill in any details on the 'problem'? We know it was about 'sending back a percentage' but folks are mum on the messenger. 



> I was involved for a time (mid 60's) with Sifu John Leoning prior to becoming a LEO.
> His teaching was a great asset to me in the years that followed and I still train to this day with similar techs and skills.
> 
> I am now a firm believer in FMA, This was the art that Sijo Emperado brought to Kajukenbo, there are so many systems and styles. It is superior to most in my opinion. When people think of FMA they mainly think of sticks, not true, there is much much more to it then that.
> ...



I agree. Even in our post breakaway / karazenpo material, you can still see the FMA influence in much of the footwork and movement. I felt quite at home visiting both the Modern Arnis world and the Amok Kali / Leo Gaje / Tom Sotis world. I just wish we got more influence on the knife defenses from the FMA.



> Not to be confused with the same ones taught today.



Really? That was sort of where I was getting at. What kind of changes? Was it what they did or how they did it?



> Sifu John was from (family) the filipines and he was a good practioner of that also, "copper skin" was his nick name, I believe.
> 
> Probably why Sijo Emperado sent him to the mainland and had him teach one of the first schools that was here (both of filipino heritage) Al Reyes also.
> 
> ...



Great to hear. It's nice to hear something nice about a significant figure from someone who used to train with him. 

Matt


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## Matt (Nov 12, 2004)

John Bishop said:
			
		

> Matt:
> 
> There were a lot of people who trained under Leoning for a few weeks or months.  But the ones that can help you would be his long time students like the Bunda brothers, John Leoning Jr., or Rick Kingi.
> The reason I can comment on his (Leoning's) Kajukenbo is because my first Kajukenbo instructor was from the Leoning lineage.  So I was taught Leoning's techniques up to Black Belt.  I've sat on black belt boards at Grandmaster Kingi's school and Prof. Bunda's school, so I've also seen the teachings of Leoning's first generation black belts.
> ...



Thanks - some folks have written some pretty strange things, so I would be delighted to get some information from some long term students. I don't know enough about Kajukenbo as a whole to make some of the comparisons you did between his and 'mainstream' Kajukenbo, although, he didn't stray that far from mainstream apparently. 

Matt


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## Karazenpo (Nov 12, 2004)

Matt stated: That was a tough year for the arts. In addition, Thomas Miyashiro of the Hawaii Seinenkai died the day before John Leoning. I've heard about the 'problem' - it's reverberated throughout the East coast, and it's the local pastime among historians guessing who the visitor was who 'brought the message'. The karazenpo folks have been very good about letting that identity 'fade into history'.

I say: Matt, from my understanding one of the three was Tony Ramos.


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## GAB (Nov 12, 2004)

Matt said:
			
		

> John Leoning was an early Kajukenbo practitioner on the mainland. His school spawned a few innovators and he himself was as much known for innovation as he was for his part as Master Te on the Kung Fu series.
> 
> I know there's at least one former Leoning student around here, so, if you can recall, what was it like. As he adated his kajukenbo, to the point it was no longer really kajukenbo, what was the curriculum and training like?
> 
> ...


Hi Matt,

I noticed about a year ago you posted about some problems within your school, did that ever get taken care of?

I was wondering what you are looking for here.

I think Professor Joe and Sigung John will be able to give you the correct scoop.

I do not have any information as to who or what was the problem other then hearsay, (regarding the muscle) and that is not a good place to go.

I mentioned in a prior post on another board, the ramifications that will consume the Kajukenbo Group, if it is not taken care of properly or maybe even if it is taken care of properly (Robert Trias tried, did not work).

To many egos and to much money out there at this point and time...

Not very many people around, that are like the late Thomas Young, loyal and devoted.

I think I know of a couple here and there, but as a rule most are in the wings waiting for father time...

Let me ask you this, if you had a sister would you leave all your hard work to her, especially when you know her??? 

I would hope not...I understand she is one tough cookie, and that is from many sources.

Good luck Kajukenbo, you will need it...

My money is on Thomas Mitose.

Regards, Gary


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## John Bishop (Nov 12, 2004)

Here you go again GAB.  Going from forum to forum posting rumor and innuendo, as if you really have any personal experience, or knowledge of the true facts.  

I think the topic here was "what kind of techniques John Leoning taught".


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## GAB (Nov 12, 2004)

John Bishop said:
			
		

> Here you go again GAB. Going from forum to forum posting rumor and innuendo, as if you really have any personal experience, or knowledge of the true facts.
> 
> I think the topic here was "what kind of techniques John Leoning taught".


John, I was asked about the problem that occured at Sifu John's school,
it is all over the net and every one I ever met talked about it, in the old days.

I thought I placed it in your and Joes hands very well.

I explained my position. I also read on the net about the question Matt asked advice for. That talk occured on Martial talk,and you were in it about a year 
ago.

I mentioned what I did for a reason...

John and Joe... If you had not trash talked Hanshi and again just recently on Sanjosekenpo this would not be coming up to raise its ugly head...

I told you the other day you want to trash Mitose fine, you trash Hanshi, you  are fair game, including your system. Joe, you took that extra step, that is my thought.

I am only responding to what Matt asked me specifically.

I believe Thomas would be a good person for consideration.

None of my business, well then get your face out of Hanshi's business.

Regards, Gary


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## John Bishop (Nov 12, 2004)

GAB said:
			
		

> John and Joe... If you had not trash talked Hanshi and again just recently on Sanjosekenpo this would not be coming up to raise its ugly head...
> 
> I told you the other day you want to trash Mitose fine, you trash Hanshi, you are fair game, including your system. Joe, you took that extra step, that is my thought.
> 
> ...


Gary; 
If you've got a personal problem with me, take it to email or PM.  It has nothing to do with this thread, and it's just trolling.


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## GAB (Nov 13, 2004)

Come on John,

That is not a fair quote. Like I say, I don't mind the quote, but quote the whole thing don't just take a line here and a line there and put it into a sentence.

Come on John, why have you gone here?

Regards, Gary


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## GAB (Nov 13, 2004)

GAB said:
			
		

> John, I was asked about the problem that occured at Sifu John's school,
> it is all over the net and every one I ever met talked about it, in the old days.
> 
> I thought I placed it in your and Joes hands very well.
> ...


Hi John.
This is what I said.
I don't think that is trolling.

Regards, Gary


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## Karazenpo (Nov 13, 2004)

GAB said:
			
		

> Hi John.
> This is what I said.
> I don't think that is trolling.
> 
> Regards, Gary



Regards, Gary[/QUOTE]

Wait a minute Gary, let's reconsider that one, about me trashing Juchnik on the San Jose Kenpo forum or any other time for that matter. First of all, I have always stated that although I have never seen the man perform I heard many good things from people I know about him. I also stated and went on record that I never questioned his ability in any way, shape or form (that's not my style), it had nothing to do with that. It was all over giving us some information so that we may fill the gaps in our kenpo history. We were promised it but never got it and we got fustrated. It's the same thing, year in and year out. Do you blame us? Furthermore, I, also heard the stories of the drinking, attitude and so forth that you mentioned publically on the San Jose forum but if you noticed I never, ever posted anything on that whatsoever for I felt it very inappropiate and disrespectful toward Mr. Juchnick, but Gary, YOU POSTED IT! Now, let's get back to what I commented on that you referred to as 'trashing' and let the people decide:

John Bishop stated this to Gary on the San Jose forum:

"I really got a good laugh out of your other statement about why Mr. Juchnik sought out Mitose. You said something to the effect that Bruce was drinking too much, too violent and on the wrong path. So what does he do? He goes to Folsom Prison to seek counsel and guidance of a man serving a life sentence from being a liar, fraud, cheat and murderer.

Gary, when I read that I immediately took issue with what YOU stated and I told you so, nothing to do with Juchnik. I even apologized for putting it as harshly as I did, for we always got along, but I do stand by it. I felt you were playing us and having a good laugh over it, for how could you possibly believe that WE would believe such nonsense? That's as ridiculous as hearing of Usama Bin Laden winning the Nobel Peace Prize. I agree totally with John Bishop's above quote of which I commented on as I'm sure everyone else reading it does also and it has nothing to do with trashing anyone, outside of maybe Mitose, lol, but it is Mitose who has to blame himself for that one, not John!  Take care & Be safe, Joe


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## Justin Audia (Dec 16, 2014)

Hello. I am John Leoning's nephew. Sadly he died before I was born but my mother was very close to him. From what she has told me, he was a great and talented man. I have some of his weapons they are special. Thank you for talking about him.


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## TKU-USA (Apr 26, 2015)

I was a student of Master Leoning at the North Hollywood, CA school.  I remember the School as the North American Kung Fu Karate Association and his teachings, well.  This is the patch that we wore on our gi.


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