# Arthroscopy, anyone?



## qi-tah (Jun 11, 2007)

Hi all;

At the moment i'm recovering from an arthroscopy on my left knee... it's been nearly 6 weeks now and i'm still not back to full training. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 The problem is partly my left leg - the muscles have atrophied hardcore over the 14 weeks since the original injury (i spent 8 weeks limping about whilst waiting for my op) and i'm still building them back up. I also feel a little pain in the knee joint if i do too much.

What i would like to know is, has anyone else had an knee arthroscopy, and if so, how long did it take you to recover to full fitness? How long 'til you trained on it? Ran on it? Squatted with your full weight on the knee joints? Were there any movements that took longer to be able to do than others? Do you have any tips to improve recovery time?  

I guess i'm scared that i might re-injure myself by coming back too soon... but i am horribly impatient at the same time. Doctors and physios seem useless... all i get is the old "how long is a piece of string" answer when i ask about going back to training.

Many thanks :asian:


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## tellner (Jun 11, 2007)

qi-tah said:


> I guess i'm scared that i might re-injure myself by coming back too soon... but i am horribly impatient at the same time. Doctors and physios seem useless... all i get is the old "how long is a piece of string" answer when i ask about going back to training.



Unfortunately, the doctors and physios are absolutely correct. They can tell you how much you've recovered and make some guesses. But they are technicians, not magicians. There is no way to rush the process, and there's no way of telling in advance how much you will get back or how quickly it will come. Do your PT religiously. Cultivate patience. Don't let impatience or wishful thinking make you stupid.

I was supposed to have arthroscopic surgery on a knee about fifteen years ago. It turned into open surgery when they took a look inside. It took weeks before I walked without a brace or crutches, a few months before I could train for real, and I still can't do full squats with a heavy load. My wife had arthroscopic surgery on her shoulder. It's been almost two months. She's making progress, but she still doesn't have full range of motion or strength and may never recover part of it. She's adjusting her martial arts practice accordingly.


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## Shuto (Jun 11, 2007)

qi-tah said:


> Hi all;
> 
> 
> What i would like to know is, has anyone else had an knee arthroscopy, and if so, how long did it take you to recover to full fitness?


 
That depends.  Not all knee operations are the same and neither are all knee patients.  Your recovery will depend upon what theya did.  Did they just 'clean' it out?  That's the easiest to recover from if what I've heard is correct.  Did they cut/remove a meniscus?  Did they 'smooth' out rough spots on vascular cartiledge?  The latter is what I had done and I couldn't run on it for many months (~ 6 IIRC) after the operation.  Walking was no problem though.  

Note to the wise.  I am not a MD.


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## shesulsa (Jun 11, 2007)

qi-tah said:


> What i would like to know is, has anyone else had an knee arthroscopy, and if so, how long did it take you to recover to full fitness? How long 'til you trained on it? Ran on it? Squatted with your full weight on the knee joints? Were there any movements that took longer to be able to do than others? Do you have any tips to improve recovery time?
> 
> I guess i'm scared that i might re-injure myself by coming back too soon... but i am horribly impatient at the same time. Doctors and physios seem useless... all i get is the old "how long is a piece of string" answer when i ask about going back to training.
> 
> Many thanks :asian:


Yup, had it.

It really depends on what you had done in the surgery - was it a diagnostic surgery? did you have a partial menisectomy? fluid drawn? what?

If your leg was weak before your surgery, it may take you a few months to have the functionality you had before the surgery back and then longer if you need to rehab your knee to close to its condition before injury (and I don't know what your injury was).

You absolutely will have problems if you push too much.  Are you in physical therapy at all?


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## Nomad (Jun 11, 2007)

Been there, got the T-shirt.

I had an arthroscopic ACL construction and removal of some of the meniscus in my left knee in August, 2005.  I did the full course of physiotherapy, and started light training (no jumps, kicks, stances) after about 6-8 weeks.  Gradually worked up from there (listen to your body - if your knee tells you to stop, STOP), using liberal ice applications when it started to ache.  It took about 6 months to start feeling "right" again, and at least a year until it was "good as new".  That said, it still feels a little different on kicking, and if overused will ache for a couple of days afterwards.

The big goal for you at the moment is probably to regain full range of motion (being able to completely straighten your knee, bending it past 90 degrees, etc.) if you haven't already, and to build up those atrophied muscles (gradually!).  If you aren't doing physiotherapy, I strongly recommend it.


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## Yeti (Jun 11, 2007)

Nomad said:


> Been there, got the T-shirt.


 
Well, at least you got a shirt!

As everyone has said, it depends on what you had done. I had some cartilage removed from my knee about 15 years ago. It took me a good 6-8 weeks to get back to "normal".  Here's the key though...YOU MUST DO YOUR PT RELIGIOUSLY.  I REPEAT...YOU MUST DO YOUR PT RELIGIOUSLY. Doing it whenever you feel like it will cause you further regression and will not promote healing. I know it sucks but even when you only want to go to bed, do your PT. I needed surgery in the first place because I didn't do my PT on an earlier injury (I was 17 and knew more than the doctors) and ended up compensating for the injury which over time led to cartilage damage. It ain't worth it. Patience is key.

If you need to train and don't have full use of the leg back yet, go over your hand sets, or try to develop your breathwork. Trust me...don't rush. Listen to your body. It knows you best and will tell you when you can start putting a bit more of a load on it.


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## qi-tah (Jun 11, 2007)

Hey, thanks to all for the responses... Tellner, i kinda knew someone was going to tell me that there is no "when you should" etc, it's just hard to hear. It helps to hear it from ppl who have been there themselves tho. :asian:



shesulsa said:


> It really depends on what you had done in the surgery - was it a diagnostic surgery? did you have a partial menisectomy? fluid drawn? what?


 
I had a a bit of a clean up of the cartilage surfaces of the medial femoral condyle and the posterior of the patella. The surgeon reckoned the damage to those surfaces was equivilent to about a grade 2 to 3 tear. No meniscus removal at all, thank dog! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






shesulsa said:


> If your leg was weak before your surgery, it may take you a few months to have the functionality you had before the surgery back and then longer if you need to rehab your knee to close to its condition before injury (and I don't know what your injury was).
> 
> You absolutely will have problems if you push too much. Are you in physical therapy at all?


 
My last physio appt was last Friday.... that's it for me now. I was given physical therapy exercises to do after the op but i'm beyond those now, so i'm doing some swimming and weights at the gym. I stop when it hurts, and i try to vary my exercises so i'm doing mainly non-load bearing stuff. I do quite a bit of cycling. 
I started light training a couple of weeks ago but i keep having to stop and rest during the class, and there is a lot of stuff that i simply can't do. It makes me feel like crap... i've waited so long and i feel like my return is so close that i can taste it... but i also feel like this is the time when i have to be extra careful with myself, or i could be out for much longer.

Oh, and my teacher has shown me some pressure points around to knee to that i can play with to accelerate the healing. And i do lots of qi-gong, which i guess is good too.

Now, where do i send away to to get my shirt??


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## qi-tah (Jun 23, 2007)

Knee update... since everyone's kind suggestions (many thanks again to you all!) to keep hammering on the remedial exercises, i've slowed down a bt and gone back to the mat for some more work on the joint. And it seems to be paying off... in the last week i feel like i've turned the corner and am regaining a bit of the strength and stability i'd lost. Still nowhere near full training yet, but i'm doing modified forms ok now and slowly challenging myself each week.

Btw, those pressure points around the knee are gold! For anyone that is interested, they are the heads of vastus medialis and lateralis, the middle of the medial ligiment, the spot where the medial ligiment attaches to the tibia and the middle of the back of the knee (you basically hang the knee over your middle finger). They really ease overuse pain and i've noticed that the popping and cracking noises in my knee have decreased since i've been using those points regularly.


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## Kacey (Jun 23, 2007)

Sounds like things are really going well - thanks for the update, and here's hoping things continue to improve.


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## qi-tah (Jun 24, 2007)

Kacey said:


> Sounds like things are really going well - thanks for the update, and here's hoping things continue to improve.


 
Thanks Kacy... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




But really, i shouldn't have said anything to tempt fate... my back went out today when doing my exercises. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 At least i was at home when it happened, so it wasn't far to hobble to the fridge to grab the icepack!

Arghhh! This is so frustrating!


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## qi-tah (Jul 13, 2007)

Another knee update... sorry for banging on about my injury, but it's nice to have somewhere to put all my recovery notes! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



Anyway, it's been term break for the last two weeks so no formal ba gua class. Doesn't mean i haven't been training though! At the beginning of the month i started introducing some serious walking into my recovery regeime... 7-10km treks over rocks and uneven ground. It stood up to that really well. I also started practicing kneeling on soft surfaces, which was very painful at first but is slowly getting better. Now i can (slowly) squat all the way to the ground and stand back up again, even if i am still using the ground a little for support. I still can't quite sit on my left heel yet, but i'm working on it! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




My horse stance (modified with toes pointed out 45 degrees) is slowly improving... i'm up to 75 punches in high horse stance. My quads are taking their sweet time getting back to pre-injury strength, i can tell you! I've worked myself a little too hard last week (three sessions of 90 minutes training) and my knee is a bit grumbly, but nothing serious. It very much seems to be a two steps forward, one step back affair... 

My goal is a pain free swallow touches the water drill. I'm probably 2-3 months away from that, based on my current progress.


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## MeatWad2 (Jul 13, 2007)

qi-tah said:


> Hi all;
> 
> At the moment i'm recovering from an arthroscopy on my left knee... it's been nearly 6 weeks now and i'm still not back to full training.
> 
> ...


 
I hate to tell you this, but you will never have full range of motion ever again.  Your doctor should let you know that...you'll get as good as 95%.  I've had shoulder surgery...never was 100% after it.  I went to the physical therapy and everything the doctor told me to do.  Sorry to be pessimistic, but that's the truth.


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## qi-tah (Aug 5, 2007)

It's been three months now since my operation, and my knee is at about 75% operational capacity. I have little problem with high and mid horse stance, although i'm careful to turn out my foot on the affected side to minimise the pressure on the damaged medial condyle. I've also been working on my hip flexibility so that when i perform the deep stances and transitions, i'm not getting my joints (hip/knee/ankle) out of alignment with each other. After all, i do not want to go through this rigmarole again in a hurry! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I also have to watch my kicks supported by the affected leg.. the "snap" at the end of the kick tends to spark a bit still.

Apparently the long recovery time is not just due to my particular injury... a couple of weeks ago i had a follow up with another physio (not the one i was seeing originally), who told me that i hadn't been given the right exercises after the initial 3 week recovery! Grr. Since then i've been religiously doing my VMO exercises (for vastus medialis) and i've come along in leaps and bounds. Heaps less pain and heaps more stability, which is a great feeling! Although the swelling is still an issue... i guess because i'm testing the joint out more and more as i improve. Ah well, heaps of RICE and pressure point stuff i guess. (Unfortunately i can't do NSAID's) I've also been told that lectric soda in a stocking is good for swelling too, so i might try that.


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## karate-dragon (Aug 6, 2007)

Everone is different, every surgery is different. The amount of miniscus they remove is individual. Some docs are now trying to stitch the miniscus if they think the vascular supply is good, and in that case you need more time to recover. Yuo need to take your time. I had mine done and was pain free and running and training in 4 weeks. Physical therapy before and after is very important. But pain and swelling are definitely telling you something. You can still train. Work your hand tecniques. Walk through your katas slowly concentrating on your hand movements, your breathing, etc. Good luck.


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