# The State of American Kenpo



## Not Important (Jan 16, 2002)

I haven't been on a forum in well over a year, but those that have been around a while know who I am.

I am very concerned about the state of American Kenpo, just based on the information that is constantly posted.  Nothing of a true learning nature.  

I still read other forums from time to time and love seeing the posts about techniques and forms.  The sad thing this forces me to see is the complete lack of understanding of the basics.

I would like to see a discussion on the basics of yellow belt.  Make it real though, and remember Mr. Parker's quote: "Motion without meaning has no purpose."


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## Cthulhu (Jan 16, 2002)

Actually, some time back, Gou was trying to put up yellow belt techniques, but the response wasn't so hot.

Seeing that there are now more kenpo people on the board (American, IKCA, Tracey, and whatnot), maybe he should try again?

Cthulhu


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## GouRonin (Jan 16, 2002)

Like many things in life, if you want to see some advancement you yourself have to take the first initial steps to make it happen and guide it along it's way.

If you wish to see more posts on the basics and forms and techniques you will have to start. It is not enough to have the idea, sometimes you have to pull people in the direction you want.

I look forward to your nuture of this thread.


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## Bob Hubbard (Jan 16, 2002)

The earlier posts are still available too.  Perhaps dust them off and pick up the earlier threads again?

:asian:


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## Nate_Hoopes (Jan 17, 2002)

my first two techniques for yellow belt made me fall in love with it, Especialy "Fang of the Cobra" a technique against a two handed front choke. The opponet grabs you around the neck, Take your left arm and swing it over his two arms grabbing his left hand WHILE SIMULTANEOUSLY doing a spear hand to the throat (swinging the arm over is mostly just a misdirection tatic, something for him to look at so he dosent notice the spearhand heading straight for his throat) next a left claw to the eye, then a right claw to the eye, grab the opponet behind the head and pull them into a knee to the face/groin/stomach/, then stomp down onto the instep of his foot and follow it all up with an  elbow smash to the head. that was the technique that really opened my eyes to kenpo, showing me it can be very effective. I am due to test for my purple belt next week, but still if someone started choking i think i would "go fang of the cobra on em"


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## Rob_Broad (Jan 17, 2002)

Aww yes a classic Tracy technique.  One of the hidden principles in this techniques is the placement of the hands after the claws to the eyes, is to make a "V" with the finger tips of your two hands  behind the attackers neck.  most people garb the head to pull it down, but that can trigger an involuntary reflex for the head to move backward.  By making a "V" so the finger tips touch  just below their neck, this isolates the muscles so that the neck remains loose during the pull, knee to the groin,causing a whiplash effect.


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## Kirk (Jan 17, 2002)

hehehe ..it's funny .. I've only been training for a few months, and
I've heard "while simultaneously" a BUNCH of times LOL.  

I have a question about short form 1.  For yellow belt, we had to
do short form 1 right side only.  Now for orange, we'll have to
do right side, AND left side.  In doing right side only, the directions
were 12 o'clock, 3 o'clock, 9 o'clock, 6 o'clock, and then back to
12.  When doing left side .. are the directions the same, or
is it 12, 9, 3 , 6, 12???  Also ... are you supposed to vision an
attacker while doing forms, or focus on strict execution of the
block/strike/kick and stance?


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## Rob_Broad (Jan 17, 2002)

You are correct the left side of Short Form 1 is 12:00, 3:00, 9:00, 6:00 and back to 12:00.  I always visualize attackers when doing my forms.


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## Nate_Hoopes (Jan 18, 2002)

You havent seen anything yet kirk, you hear "while simultaneuously" more and more often everyweek in training (well at least this is how it appears to me) more and more techniques im learning now include the simultaneous movement concept, I dont know if youve gotten into simultaneous strikes yet, (the first techs i used only used simultaneous movement as a part of misdirection) if you haven't wait till your sifu shows them to you, try to block 2 punches at the same time, not that easy to do.


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## Not Important (Jan 18, 2002)

This is what I'm talking about.

I love the questions about Short One.

I am going to start a new strand about the form.


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## Rob_Broad (Jan 18, 2002)

I think we as students are responsible for the state of American Kenpo.  We always say how this pioneer did this or that, and how these guys splintered away and did this.  We all, myself included are too easily apt to point the fingers at a different group.  Instead we should be extending a hand in friendship to bridge the differences.


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## arnisador (Jan 20, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Rob_Broad _
> *I think we as students are responsible for the state of American Kenpo.  We always say how this pioneer did this or that, and how these guys splintered away and did this.  We all, myself included are too easily apt to point the fingers at a different group.  Instead we should be extending a hand in friendship to bridge the differences. *



Is there a diagram somewhere that shows just how things splintered after Mr. Parker's death and who the current major players are? I know that the split after his death was an unpleasant issue but I didn't follow it as I was never a kenpo practitioner. Is there a chart or summary somewhere of what happened? And has all the dust settled at this point?


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## GouRonin (Jan 20, 2002)

I doubt it ever will. People now "co-exist" for the most part.


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## Rob_Broad (Jan 20, 2002)

I don't know if we have learned to co-exist I think we have just learned to endure each other.  Although I have seen some amazing steps forward I have seen a few egos set us back decades.


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## Kirk (Jan 21, 2002)

From what I've listened to from experienced kenpoists, it comes
across to me that a lot of the first tier of Parker's kenpoits have
different theories for it all.  Like Chapel, and his emphasis on
nerve strikes, Tatum with his emphasis on speed, Huk with his
emphasis on power, etc.  Am I wrong?


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## jaybacca72 (Jan 21, 2002)

what you learned from Mr.Parker depended on what he thought you needed. Kenpo was his science project and we are all his guinea pigs still today ie some will run the wheel and keep up,others go into the corner and eat and then there is gou who just tries to mate haha!!!!!!!!!!!
later
jay


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## Not Important (Jan 21, 2002)

I wouldn't say that Mr. Planas is big on power, or that Dr. Chapel is big on nerve strikes, or that Mr. Tatum is big on speed.

More or less from watching all of them and having done techniques on two of the three, and having two of the three perform techniques on me.  

Mr. Tatum is a fluid dynamic user of motion.  Mr. Planas seems to try and make people concentrate on power, and utilize thrusting strikes, but that doesn't make power.  Finally Dr. Chapel, dosen't seem to focus on nerve strikes rathr than he is more concerned about the positioning of the body and the strikes for multiple reasons, of which the nerve strikes get the most attention.

Let me pose this, what seperates the good from the great?

The answer is what really generates power!


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## Kirk (Jan 21, 2002)

I was relaying merely what I heard.  I couldn't possibly reply
at this point in my Journey.  I do know that I would consider
MY instructor great, for the way he relates information, for
his patience in teaching, for so, so many reasons.  The others,
those already termed as 'great' ... I reserve my opinion until
much, much later.


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## GouRonin (Jan 22, 2002)

It's a dirty job but someone has to do it.


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## Sandor (Jan 22, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Kirk _
> *hehehe ..it's funny .. I've only been training for a few months, and
> I've heard "while simultaneously" a BUNCH of times LOL.
> 
> ...



The second half is a mirror image of the first. Some people even call a complete short one 'blocking set'. I prefer to just call it short one and prevent the confusion at test time that occurs when the students are asked for blocking set and half do short one while the other half executes start block. When I teach the form I always do both sides and provide this explanation about mirrors;

In a mirror the image you see inverts left and right, you move your right and you see the image move a left. However, front and back movement never change in a mirror. You move forward so does the image. You move back and the image once again reciprocates by moving back. 

For your last question I'll post a quote from Master Planas that may help you a bit;

_"If you practice a given form a thousand times you will be able to imagine the attackers as you execute the movement. If you practice the form another thousand times you will see the opponent there along with the attacks. If you practice the form yet another thousand times I will see your attackers there as I watch you do the form."_ 

Just a few thoughts. Hope this helps  

Peace,
Sandor


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## brentb (Jan 23, 2002)

"Not Important" wrote this: 

>Let me pose this, what seperates the good from the great? 

>The answer is what really generates power!


I'd guess that the answer would be good technique. Something all the best Kenpo practitioners exemplify more than speed, power, or nerve strikes. Good precise technique, utilizing proper body mechanics.

so do I win???

take care
Brent


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## arnisador (Jan 24, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Sandor _
> *
> For your last question I'll post a quote from Master Planas that may help you a bit;
> 
> ...



I like this. With someone who really knows their forms you can almost see the fight that is happening.


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## Kirk (Jan 24, 2002)

I can't wait to get to that point!  The only frustration I see
at my school is the black belts, and high browns are trying
to explain to me what they've learned over their years of
training.  There's no way they could, because it's experience
and afterthought that's gotten them to the point of understanding
at the level that they do.  They say how much it would help
the learning process if they could just present in a way that
us beginners could understand, but I don't see that happening.
I can just train train train until I reach that level on enlightenment
for myself.


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## Rob_Broad (Jan 24, 2002)

I know I will get in trouble for this answer Kirk, but if it was easy it would be called Tae Kwon Do.


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## Not Important (Jan 26, 2002)

You are correct, but I was looking for stances and transitions on stances or footwork.

That is what I love about this system, their is almost always more than one option.

And Rob, your right it isn't that easy


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## vincefuess (Feb 10, 2002)

They ALL have their points Kirk, and they are ALL right.  The art of Kenpo is vast and rich in its content, and it is the individuals own attributes that determine the direction for them to pursue.

As to the "state" of Kenpo- as far as I can see, the various "camps" of Kenpo are getting along better now than I have ever seen.  There was a while there after SGM Parkers passing, that you couldn't even mention some names around many Kenpo practitioners without firing up a huge dispute.  I think we are all getting along better now than ever before, and respecting one another for our differing viewpoints rather than criticizing one another, and this is a wonderful thing.  Everybody has something to share, and all knowledge is good.

As to the content of the postings, well I love to talk "nuts and bolts" as much as anybody.  I also like to discuss topics here that ARE NOT discussed on the mat at the school.  Rumors, politics, events, musings, trivia, and peripheral data on Kenpo and martial arts.  There is a faction of martial artists who believe that if EVERY discussion is not about technique or form that it is wasted time- but we are human and our interest in discussing our arts goes WAY BEYOND techniques and forms, and there is nothing wrong with that.  All work and no play not only makes Jack a dull guy, but it also limits his knowledge.


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## kenpo_cory (Feb 17, 2002)

Different people do focus on different aspects. I think it depends on what your strong point is. And someone correct me if I'm wrong but the way I understand it, Mr. parker would focus on different aspects of the art with different people. He had the talent to recognize what your strong points were and give you deeper insight into those areas. Thats not to say he would neglect other areas of training. Also, from what I understand Mr. parker did this on purpose in the idea that it might unite all kenpoists in the case that he died. Just some things that Ive heard. If anyone knows if this is true or not, let me know.


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## Goldendragon7 (Feb 23, 2002)

had a saying....... work with his strengths.... He was a master of that.  We must put this in proper context.  Ed Parker in his latter years worked mainly  with Black Belts except at Seminars.  When he worked with the instructors he already had a  person that had some knowledge of the Art.  He would ask ..... "What can I do for yak today?"  Then proceed to teach what the individual wanted or direct him to what he needed to improve on what ever he was talking about.

He related to everyone at their own level of understanding yet the content of his Art was not ad diversified and some think.  He stuck to his principles yet used different wrapping paper for some.  LOL
:asian:


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## WilliamTLear (Feb 25, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Goldendragon7 _
> *He stuck to his principles yet used different wrapping paper for some.  LOL*



He did say that he went to college to communicate with anyone on any level.
LOL :idea: 

Billy Lear


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## Jim Micozzi (Feb 25, 2002)

Hello

   I am new to the board.  I have been studying American Kenpo for almost 6 years now.  I previously trained in Tae Kwon Do and Tracy's Kenpo.  I see the latest thread is about techniques. I have a complete list of both Tracy's and Parker's techniques.  Here is a yellow belt technique for American Kenpo.  I will post the tracy's version next week for comparision.  



1. GRIP OF DEATH (flank head lock) 

1. With opponent applying lock from your left side, step forward and to your left (to 10 o'clock) with your right foot (into a right close kneel) while turning your head to the left and tucking your chin against your chest. Simultaneously deliver a right hammer  fist to opponent's groin and a left hammer fist to opponent's kidney. 
2. As you pivot into a left forward bow facing 6 o'clock, have the fingers of your left hand press under opponent's nose or,      depending upon the circumstances, have your left hand grab opponent's hair to force opponent's head back. 
3. Immediately follow-up with a right heel of palm thrust to opponent's chin as you pivot into a left forward bow. However, make sure that the head of your opponent in either of the above cases is arched and forced back and down to minimize your opponent's leverage thus preventing him from executing a right knee kick to your groin area


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## GouRonin (Feb 25, 2002)

One of the things about Grip of Death is that it assumes a lot in some ways. I'd rather roll with some grappling if I can but then there are times you just can't because of the enviromental concerns etc. In any case it leaves you the avenue to do both.


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## Nate_Hoopes (Feb 25, 2002)

We learned a technique just like grip of death, except reverse it, we started with opponet on the right etc, funny how all these different styles work together.


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## Jim Micozzi (Feb 26, 2002)

Gou Ronin

Could you elaborate on your last post?  I was wondering what type of grappling technique you would utilize against a side headlock?  

Here is the Tracy's version for a side headlock

HEADLOCK (ABC) - FOR THREE VARIATIONS OF HEADLOCKS 
SIDE HEADLOCK - Step up right horse stance in front of the opponent, do a double hammerfist strike to the groin and kidney. Grab the hair from behind with the left hand and turn to a hard bow as the right palm strikes the jaw. 
SIDE HEADLOCK AS THE OPPONENT PULLS YOU FORWARD Take two or three steps then drop to the knee closest to the opponent. Cover the face and do a ridge hand to the groin from between the legs. 
FRONT FACE LOCK Push forward into opponent's stomach using your shoulder. Do rapid ridge hand strikes to the groin. It is important to remember Constant Forward Pressure.


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## Goldendragon7 (Feb 26, 2002)

> _Originally posted by GouRonin _
> *One of the things about Grip of Death is that it assumes a lot in some ways. I'd rather roll with some grappling if I can but then there are times you just can't because of the enviromental concerns etc. In any case it leaves you the avenue to do both. *



Yes, as in all techniques you have choices depending upon your level of experience and understanding of the Art.  At the Formulation Phase you should have  examinined "several" options for "several" reasons thus leading to your choice of action.

Environmental conditions, "feel" of the grab, strength of the opponent, your personal abilities at the time of the encounter ie., current conditions of health, age, conditioning to falling or lack thereof....... so there are many independent or individual options that one may have at different times of thier life which will determine exactly how or what you respond with during any specific encournter....... just something to think about.

:asian:


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## GouRonin (Feb 26, 2002)

Jim, I would like to work on a single side leg takedown if I could but like I said it is all based on what if's.

As for GoldenDragon. I wouldn't grapple with him. I'd rather run him over with a mack truck. Even then I doubt it would faze him much. We're talkin' one LARGE dude.


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## Goldendragon7 (Feb 28, 2002)

Actually, I'm quite enthusiastic about the State of the Art today.  I think there are several groups expanding Kenpo and its growing in numbers.  
As can be expected there will always be spin off groups that have no clue..... this happens with all aspects of life.

:asian:


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## brianhunter (Apr 16, 2002)

>Here is the Tracy's version for a side headlock 

>HEADLOCK (ABC) - FOR THREE VARIATIONS OF HEADLOCKS 
>SIDE HEADLOCK - Step up right horse stance in front of the >opponent, do a double hammerfist strike to the groin and >kidney. Grab the hair from behind with the left hand and turn to >a hard bow as the right palm strikes the jaw. 
>SIDE HEADLOCK AS THE OPPONENT PULLS YOU FORWARD Take >two or three steps then drop to the knee closest to the >opponent. Cover the face and do a ridge hand to the groin from >between the legs. 
>FRONT FACE LOCK Push forward into opponent's stomach using >your shoulder. Do rapid ridge hand strikes to the groin. It is >important to remember Constant Forward Pressure

Well the first one against a side headlock sounds an awful lot like grip of death except for the stances.....

The second sounds alot like locking horns but it is against a front headlock


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## RCastillo (Apr 16, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Goldendragon7 _
> 
> *Actually, I'm quite enthusiastic about the State of the Art today.  I think there are several groups expanding Kenpo and its growing in numbers.
> As can be expected there will always be spin off groups that have no clue..... this happens with all aspects of life.
> ...



Of course you're enthusiastic, cause over power us, dominate us, abuse us all lower ranks. It's kinda like your"Dark Hobby!"

I also know you're looking to eliminate a few of us, assimilate some, and turn the rest into orphans. Oh woe is us!


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## Kirk (Apr 16, 2002)

> _Originally posted by GouRonin _
> 
> *As for GoldenDragon. We're talkin' one LARGE dude. *



How large are we talking about here?  GD7 ... could you email
me, kirknchristy@sbcglobal.net .  As embarassing as this is to
say publicly ... I need a larger ghi than what's commercially
available.  If you know somewhere I can purchase a new ghi,
could you let me know?


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## Goldendragon7 (Apr 19, 2002)

I will email you some vendors.:asian:


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