# In 50 years from now, what will people be nostalgic for from around today's time period?



## Chrisinmd (Aug 18, 2020)

In 50 years from now, what will people be nostalgic for from around today's time period?

And how accurate would people 50 years in the past from today (1970) have been at predicting what we today would be nostalgic about?


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## Buka (Aug 20, 2020)

I was a senior in high school in 70.

We discussed in a science class what life would be like in 30 years, in 50 years.

There was no question that some of us would undoubtedly be driving flying cars.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Aug 20, 2020)

Buka said:


> I was a senior in high school in 70.
> 
> We discussed in a science class what life would be like in 30 years, in 50 years.
> 
> There was no question that some of us would undoubtedly be driving flying cars.


Was that the Ford Pinto designed for?


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## dvcochran (Aug 21, 2020)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> Was that the Ford Pinto designed for?


The Pinto was designed to blow up when rear ended. My sister drove one for years until the news go out.
I do not doubt some of them 'flew'.


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## Steve (Aug 21, 2020)

dvcochran said:


> The Pinto was designed to blow up when rear ended. My sister drove one for years until the news go out.
> I do not doubt some of them 'flew'.


LOL.  "Designed to" suggests that they considered it a feature.  "This baby gets 18 mpg on the freeway, and has been designed to explode.  That's new for the '74 model."


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## Steve (Aug 21, 2020)

Things from today that people are nostalgic for.  

I think it's safe to say that in 50 years, people will be nostalgic for the relative simplicity of our lives now.  Doesn't necessarily feel simple to us, but technology will continue to move forward.
Physical money.  When I was a kid you could pay for things with special paper.  
Being able to drive a car.  When I was a kid, we would do something called "burning rubber."  
Camping in actual wilderness


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Aug 21, 2020)

Stars.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Aug 21, 2020)

dvcochran said:


> The Pinto was designed to blow up when rear ended. My sister drove one for years until the news go out.
> I do not doubt some of them 'flew'.


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## Buka (Aug 21, 2020)

I think fifty years from now people will read/hear about this current pandemic and think "Couldn't happen now, science and medicine have come too far."


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Aug 21, 2020)

Buka said:


> I think fifty years from now people will read/hear about this current pandemic and think "Couldn't happen now, science and medicine have come too far."


So you're guessing the next pandemic will be in about 51 years?


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## Steve (Aug 21, 2020)

Monkey Turned Wolf said:


> So you're guessing the next pandemic will be in about 51 years?


that's be fine with me.  But realistically, I give us a decade, tops.


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## Buka (Aug 21, 2020)

Monkey Turned Wolf said:


> So you're guessing the next pandemic will be in about 51 years?



Depends on China.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Aug 21, 2020)

Monkey Turned Wolf said:


> So you're guessing the next pandemic will be in about 51 years?


I don't know how long this one may last. I just watched today's news that we may have to

- wear mask, and
- keep social distance,

for the next 3 years.

2 days ago, there were more than 10 cars parked near one of my neighbor's house. I knew they might have a big party. I wasn't sure I should report this to the local police department or not.

I always believe in "avoiding trouble". Don't understand why people want to have big party this year.


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## Steve (Aug 21, 2020)

Buka said:


> Depends on China.


This is a joke, surely.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Aug 21, 2020)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> I don't know how long this one may last. I just watched today's news that we may have to
> 
> - wear mask, and
> - keep social distance,
> ...


I think if it reaches the 3 years point, it'll just become a societal norm/culture at that point. With the exception of parties/close friends and family, people will just stay socially distant. And there's already starting to be fashion around masks.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Aug 21, 2020)

Monkey Turned Wolf said:


> I think if it reaches the 3 years point, it'll just become a societal norm/culture at that point. With the exception of parties/close friends and family, people will just stay socially distant. And there's already starting to be fashion around masks.


A: My dear! After 6 months of staying home, I feel boring big time.
B: You should be glad that you don't have the COVID-19.

Life can be sad if the only happiness is "no COVID-19".


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## dvcochran (Aug 21, 2020)

Monkey Turned Wolf said:


> So you're guessing the next pandemic will be in about 51 years?


It all depends on how each election year goes.


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## dvcochran (Aug 21, 2020)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> I don't know how long this one may last. I just watched today's news that we may have to
> 
> - wear mask, and
> - keep social distance,
> ...


For every you would have held a party last year.


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## dvcochran (Aug 21, 2020)

Monkey Turned Wolf said:


> I think if it reaches the 3 years point, it'll just become a societal norm/culture at that point. With the exception of parties/close friends and family, people will just stay socially distant. And there's already starting to be fashion around masks.


I did not click the button but I cannot overstate how much I disagree with that.


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## dvcochran (Aug 21, 2020)

Steve said:


> LOL.  "Designed to" suggests that they considered it a feature.  "This baby gets 18 mpg on the freeway, and has been designed to explode.  That's new for the '74 model."


I didn't say it was an intentional design. But it was a seriously designed flaw.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Aug 21, 2020)

dvcochran said:


> The Pinto was designed to blow up when rear ended.


It was designed to maintain social distance.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Aug 21, 2020)

dvcochran said:


> I did not click the button but I cannot overstate how much I disagree with that.


Why? And to clarify I'm not saying that's what I want to happen. But 3 years of doing something tends to engrain itself in people.


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## Buka (Aug 21, 2020)

Steve said:


> This is a joke, surely.



When have you ever known me to joke?


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## Flying Crane (Aug 21, 2020)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> I don't know how long this one may last. I just watched today's news that we may have to
> 
> - wear mask, and
> - keep social distance,
> ...


Because some people are simply stupid.


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## hoshin1600 (Aug 22, 2020)

i think driving a car will be a top one,  once self directed cars work well, insurance companies will sky rocket the rates and make it impossible to own and drive a real car.
however i think America will be unrecognizable.   welcome to the USSA.


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## dvcochran (Aug 22, 2020)

Monkey Turned Wolf said:


> Why? And to clarify I'm not saying that's what I want to happen. But 3 years of doing something tends to engrain itself in people.



We are social animals. It is engrained in us, just like many other mammals. It is a key requirement to keep us mentally balanced, happy, and alive. Like most other people, it seriously creeps me out to see everyone walking around when you cannot see their face. It is akin to this forum; you only see words written on a screen so you cannot fully gauge someone's meaning or intent. 
I am not a great conversationalist because my nerdy/engineering mind tends to cut to the chase and wants to move a group conversation forward too quickly for some/most. But I am good at measuring someone when talking face to face. 
Case in point; I would Never buy a car online from a business like Carvana where there is no haggling and the price is 'fixed'. This is the biggest win for the Seller ever. I scratch my head that people are so gullible and not willing to negotiate what they pay for such a large ticket item. A classic case of social conditioning that is bad for people.


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## dvcochran (Aug 22, 2020)

dvcochran said:


> For every you would have held a party last year.


I saw how bad I butchered this, sorry. I meant to right:
"For every reason you would have held a party last year."


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## hoshin1600 (Aug 23, 2020)

dvcochran said:


> I would Never buy a car online from a business like Carvana where there is no haggling and the price is 'fixed'. This is the biggest win for the Seller ever. I scratch my head that people are so gullible and not willing to negotiate what they pay for such a large ticket item. A classic case of social conditioning that is bad for people.


get used to the idea.  dealers are going out of business.  as soon as the makers figure out how to go direct to consumer you wont have a choice.  people dont like to haggle.  for most it is one of the most stress full events in their life,  they don trust sales people.  everyone feels they are getting ripped off because they dont know the actual price. but for new cars the actual price is on the window sticker,, if you dont like it dont buy it,, its the people that do haggle who think they know "the dealer is making a fortune" , which they are not. and every dollar that you negotiate down is a dollar out of the sales guys pocket.  the entire haggle thing is the worst thing ever, it hurts the dealer and the sales guy just trying to feed his family.  the car makers already made their money before the car even hit the lot.


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## dvcochran (Aug 23, 2020)

hoshin1600 said:


> get used to the idea.  dealers are going out of business.  as soon as the makers figure out how to go direct to consumer you wont have a choice.  people dont like to haggle.  for most it is one of the most stress full events in their life,  they don trust sales people.  everyone feels they are getting ripped off because they dont know the actual price. but for new cars the actual price is on the window sticker,, if you dont like it dont buy it,, its the people that do haggle who think they know "the dealer is making a fortune" , which they are not. and every dollar that you negotiate down is a dollar out of the sales guys pocket.  the entire haggle thing is the worst thing ever, it hurts the dealer and the sales guy just trying to feed his family.  the car makers already made their money before the car even hit the lot.


For all the reasons you list negotiation is necessary. There are way too many buying choices to take the first thing available. This isn't like buying a pair of shoes. I never have and never will pay sticker price for a new vehicle.
I am dumbfounded by the generational mentality of 'there is nothing I can do about that'.


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## Steve (Aug 23, 2020)

dvcochran said:


> We are social animals. It is engrained in us, just like many other mammals. It is a key requirement to keep us mentally balanced, happy, and alive. Like most other people, it seriously creeps me out to see everyone walking around when you cannot see their face. It is akin to this forum; you only see words written on a screen so you cannot fully gauge someone's meaning or intent.
> I am not a great conversationalist because my nerdy/engineering mind tends to cut to the chase and wants to move a group conversation forward too quickly for some/most. But I am good at measuring someone when talking face to face.
> Case in point; I would Never buy a car online from a business like Carvana where there is no haggling and the price is 'fixed'. This is the biggest win for the Seller ever. I scratch my head that people are so gullible and not willing to negotiate what they pay for such a large ticket item. A classic case of social conditioning that is bad for people.


Do you haggle when you go to the grocery store or shop for clothes in the mall?  They have fixed prices, too.  It's very interesting to me that you associate haggling for a car price as social conditioning that is bad for people.  The car dealers need to make their money, and provided the markup is fair and the price is reasonable, what's wrong with not wanting to haggle?  There's also a value to time.  I don't know how you value your time, but if I am spending hours or more like going back and forth to the dealer multiple times, to get what is essentially a 5% discount on a car, no thanks. I have much better ways to spend my time.

Regarding the rest, could you point to your source for saying that most people are "seriously creeped out to see everyone walking around when you cannot see their face?"  That hasn't been my experience at all.  Most people, like I'd say 99 out of 100-ish, that I run into out in the world at large, seem to interact pretty much the same with masks as without.  

All that said, I do agree that we are social animals, and right now, at least in the USA, we have some members of the flock who are choosing to be anti-social, not wear masks, and who become obstinate about doing simple things to help their friends and neighbors.  Covid-19 is responsible for anywhere between 10 and 20% of all deaths in the USA right now, depending on the week, some of them most certainly unnecessarily.  So, socially, it's up to the rest of us to exert social pressure on these anti-social people who are exhibiting aberrant behavior and shame them into doing the right thing.  It's what social creatures do.


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## Buka (Aug 23, 2020)

Flying Crane said:


> Because some people are simply stupid.



And others are complexly stupid.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Aug 23, 2020)

dvcochran said:


> We are social animals. It is engrained in us, just like many other mammals. It is a key requirement to keep us mentally balanced, happy, and alive. Like most other people, it seriously creeps me out to see everyone walking around when you cannot see their face. It is akin to this forum; you only see words written on a screen so you cannot fully gauge someone's meaning or intent.
> I am not a great conversationalist because my nerdy/engineering mind tends to cut to the chase and wants to move a group conversation forward too quickly for some/most. But I am good at measuring someone when talking face to face.
> Case in point; I would Never buy a car online from a business like Carvana where there is no haggling and the price is 'fixed'. This is the biggest win for the Seller ever. I scratch my head that people are so gullible and not willing to negotiate what they pay for such a large ticket item. A classic case of social conditioning that is bad for people.


You mention we're social animals but also that people are moving to less social activities. Online forums/discussions (not necessarily here, but facebook, tumblr, twitter reddit), take out a lot of that personal face-to-face conversation and discussion, and sites like carvana is one of the biggest things.

Plenty of people never learned how to haggle. So they see the price on Carvana is lower than the in-person price, and they are now also saving themselves the effort of having to interact with someone, and it seems like a win-win. People are already ordering their groceries online, or using an app to order food in a 'grab and go' where they don't have to actually talk to anyone to buy/pick up their food.

Society was already heading this way, and COVID is just speeding it along. Again, not saying this is good, but it's what I see happening.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Aug 23, 2020)

dvcochran said:


> For all the reasons you list negotiation is necessary. There are way too many buying choices to take the first thing available. This isn't like buying a pair of shoes. I never have and never will pay sticker price for a new vehicle.
> I am dumbfounded by the generational mentality of 'there is nothing I can do about that'.


Also in a way, they still do what you discuss, just online. They'll look at the sticker price at 10 different dealers for three different cars, and their listings on 5 different sites for each, and buy it from whomever's offering the best deal at which site. They're not haggling still, but that doesn't mean their 'taking the first thing available'.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Aug 23, 2020)

Steve said:


> Do you haggle when you go to the grocery store or shop for clothes in the mall?  They have fixed prices, too.  It's very interesting to me that you associate haggling for a car price as social conditioning that is bad for people.  The car dealers need to make their money, and provided the markup is fair and the price is reasonable, what's wrong with not wanting to haggle?  There's also a value to time.  I don't know how you value your time, but if I am spending hours or more like going back and forth to the dealer multiple times, to get what is essentially a 5% discount on a car, no thanks. I have much better ways to spend my time.


Really? If you buy a new/1year old car it'll probably be 20k+. that means a couple hours of going back and forth is saving you $1000, which is more than most people I know make in a couple hours working at their jobs. How much money would you have to save for it to be worth it?


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## Buka (Aug 23, 2020)

Steve said:


> Do you haggle when you go to the grocery store or shop for clothes in the mall?  They have fixed prices, too.  It's very interesting to me that you associate haggling for a car price as social conditioning that is bad for people.  The car dealers need to make their money, and provided the markup is fair and the price is reasonable, what's wrong with not wanting to haggle?  There's also a value to time.  I don't know how you value your time, but if I am spending hours or more like going back and forth to the dealer multiple times, to get what is essentially a 5% discount on a car, no thanks. I have much better ways to spend my time.
> 
> Regarding the rest, could you point to your source for saying that most people are "seriously creeped out to see everyone walking around when you cannot see their face?"  That hasn't been my experience at all.  Most people, like I'd say 99 out of 100-ish, that I run into out in the world at large, seem to interact pretty much the same with masks as without.
> 
> All that said, I do agree that we are social animals, and right now, at least in the USA, we have some members of the flock who are choosing to be anti-social, not wear masks, and who become obstinate about doing simple things to help their friends and neighbors.  Covid-19 is responsible for anywhere between 10 and 20% of all deaths in the USA right now, depending on the week, some of them most certainly unnecessarily.  So, socially, it's up to the rest of us to exert social pressure on these anti-social people who are exhibiting aberrant behavior and shame them into doing the right thing.  It's what social creatures do.



The one thing that gives me pause about this....until the pandemic, if you walked into a bank here wearing a cap and sunglasses, they'll ask you to remove them as you come in. And having worked in the banking world I understood why.

Now everybody walks into the banks here wearing masks and sunglasses. it's so odd to me.


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## dvcochran (Aug 23, 2020)

Monkey Turned Wolf said:


> Also in a way, they still do what you discuss, just online. They'll look at the sticker price at 10 different dealers for three different cars, and their listings on 5 different sites for each, and buy it from whomever's offering the best deal at which site. They're not haggling still, but that doesn't mean their 'taking the first thing available'.


Yes, but they are still averaging their price based on sticker prices. Total BS, IMHO. I have no problem driving 2 hours for a better deal.


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## dvcochran (Aug 23, 2020)

Monkey Turned Wolf said:


> You mention we're social animals but also that people are moving to less social activities. Online forums/discussions (not necessarily here, but facebook, tumblr, twitter reddit), take out a lot of that personal face-to-face conversation and discussion, and sites like carvana is one of the biggest things.
> 
> Plenty of people never learned how to haggle. So they see the price on Carvana is lower than the in-person price, and they are now also saving themselves the effort of having to interact with someone, and it seems like a win-win. People are already ordering their groceries online, or using an app to order food in a 'grab and go' where they don't have to actually talk to anyone to buy/pick up their food.
> 
> Society was already heading this way, and COVID is just speeding it along. Again, not saying this is good, but it's what I see happening.


Possibly in your area, definitely not in the southeast. Things are quickly heading back to normal here.
There is no 'new normal'. Maybe a temporary thing but not permanent.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Aug 23, 2020)

dvcochran said:


> Possibly in your area, definitely not in the southeast. Things are quickly heading back to normal here.
> There is no 'new normal'. Maybe a temporary thing but not permanent.


Definitely different in different areas. But my comment was also towards the idea that culture would change if people continued with current measures for 3 years


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## dvcochran (Aug 23, 2020)

Steve said:


> Do you haggle when you go to the grocery store or shop for clothes in the mall?  They have fixed prices, too.  It's very interesting to me that you associate haggling for a car price as social conditioning that is bad for people.  The car dealers need to make their money, and provided the markup is fair and the price is reasonable, what's wrong with not wanting to haggle?  There's also a value to time.  I don't know how you value your time, but if I am spending hours or more like going back and forth to the dealer multiple times, to get what is essentially a 5% discount on a car, no thanks. I have much better ways to spend my time.
> 
> Regarding the rest, could you point to your source for saying that most people are "seriously creeped out to see everyone walking around when you cannot see their face?"  That hasn't been my experience at all.  Most people, like I'd say 99 out of 100-ish, that I run into out in the world at large, seem to interact pretty much the same with masks as without.
> 
> ...


5% on an $80,000 truck, yea I am going to haggle all I can and it is time well spent. You can spend your time and waste you money however you wish.
I do my research and have a pretty good idea what I am going to pay before I ever show up. I run enough service trucks that I am confident I am getting a good price.

Yes, without a doubt people are seriously creeped out about the mask. Apparently "the world at large" that you run around in is pretty small. Just talk to retailers and people outside your circle. It will be interesting when the numbers for the huge increase in shop lifting come out.

Your last paragraph is TOTAL BS. I think you need to stay WAY Northwest. It seems to fit your mentality much better, because dude, you don't have a clue what is going on. Just keep buying the lies and you will be fine.


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## dvcochran (Aug 23, 2020)

Monkey Turned Wolf said:


> Definitely different in different areas. But my comment was also towards the idea that culture would change if people continued with current measures for 3 years


Okay, why would that be a good thing?


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Aug 23, 2020)

dvcochran said:


> Okay, why would that be a good thing?


I never said that it would be a good thing. This is actually the third comment where I've clarified that I wasn't saying it's a good thing. I think you quote the other two comments where I clarified that as well.


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## dvcochran (Aug 23, 2020)

You must be repeating yourself if I am doing the same.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Aug 23, 2020)

Will this happen in 50 years?

A guy has 39 wives and 86 children.


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## Buka (Aug 23, 2020)

dvcochran said:


> 5% on an $80,000 truck, yea I am going to haggle all I can and it is time well spent. You can spend your time and waste you money however you wish.
> I do my research and have a pretty good idea what I am going to pay before I ever show up. I run enough service trucks that I am confident I am getting a good price.
> 
> Yes, without a doubt people are seriously creeped out about the mask. Apparently "the world at large" that you run around in is pretty small. Just talk to retailers and people outside your circle. It will be interesting when the numbers for the huge increase in shop lifting come out.
> ...



As for shoplifting, it's pretty much legal in California now.


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## Buka (Aug 23, 2020)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> Will this happen in 50 years?
> 
> A guy has 39 wives and 86 children.



To me, the idea of having that many wives is like wishing, "Gee, if only I could have a few dozen more toothaches every year, that would be swell."


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## Steve (Aug 23, 2020)

Monkey Turned Wolf said:


> Really? If you buy a new/1year old car it'll probably be 20k+. that means a couple hours of going back and forth is saving you $1000, which is more than most people I know make in a couple hours working at their jobs. How much money would you have to save for it to be worth it?


couple of hours?  I don't think so.  The price of the car is going to be withing a few hundred of whatever the fair market value is, which is easy to find online.  You might get free carwashes or a few hundred off, but that's about it.  I stay away from dealerships that expect you to haggle.  Frankly, if you're really interested in saving some dough, don't finance for more than 60 months, don't finance at all for more than 1 or 2%, and pay the car off early if you can.  Folks brag about saving a few hundred on the asking price while they finance at 5% for 84 it even 96 months.  Lol.


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## Steve (Aug 23, 2020)

dvcochran said:


> 5% on an $80,000 truck, yea I am going to haggle all I can and it is time well spent. You can spend your time and waste you money however you wish.


 if you know how much you're going to pay, I think you have choices.  You can go to the dealer that marks it up and makes you dicker to get to that price, or you can go to a dealer or service that offers you that price out the gate.  I choose the latter.  





> I do my research and have a pretty good idea what I am going to pay before I ever show up. I run enough service trucks that I am confident I am getting a good price.
> 
> Yes, without a doubt people are seriously creeped out about the mask. Apparently "the world at large" that you run around in is pretty small. Just talk to retailers and people outside your circle. It will be interesting when the numbers for the huge increase in shop lifting come out.
> 
> Your last paragraph is TOTAL BS. I think you need to stay WAY Northwest. It seems to fit your mentality much better, because dude, you don't have a clue what is going on. Just keep buying the lies and you will be fine.


who says Americans don't appreciate irony?


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## granfire (Aug 23, 2020)

Steve said:


> This is a joke, surely.


Don't call him Shirley


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## granfire (Aug 23, 2020)

dvcochran said:


> Possibly in your area, definitely not in the southeast. Things are quickly heading back to normal here.
> There is no 'new normal'. Maybe a temporary thing but not permanent.


that's why we lead the country in new COVID cases and past capacity hospitals. 
YMMV


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Aug 23, 2020)

Steve said:


> couple of hours?  I don't think so.  The price of the car is going to be withing a few hundred of whatever the fair market value is, which is easy to find online.  You might get free carwashes or a few hundred off, but that's about it.  I stay away from dealerships that expect you to haggle.  Frankly, if you're really interested in saving some dough, don't finance for more than 60 months, don't finance at all for more than 1 or 2%, and pay the car off early if you can.  Folks brag about saving a few hundred on the asking price while they finance at 5% for 84 it even 96 months.  Lol.


I was going off your statement about saving 5%


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Aug 23, 2020)

dvcochran said:


> You must be repeating yourself if I am doing the same.


If that's to me, I don't get what your point is. I am repeating myself.


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## Steve (Aug 23, 2020)

Monkey Turned Wolf said:


> I was going off your statement about saving 5%


Sure. But even if we take the 5% comment at value, if you know a truck is worth $80k and you pay $81k at a fixed price or "save" 5% at a dealer who marks it up to $90k, what's the difference?  The dealer is still running up against a margin and honestly, there are about a dozen other ways they could get their money. Whether it's the dealer add ons, the maintenance packages, the trade in value etc.  And the banks get a lot of folks, too, as I mentioned.

To be clear, the idea that people not haggling at a dealership as some kind of social conditioning is pretty stupid.  That's what I was commenting on.  But hopefully the above clarifies what I meant by 5%.


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## dvcochran (Aug 23, 2020)

Steve said:


> if you know how much you're going to pay, I think you have choices.  You can go to the dealer that marks it up and makes you dicker to get to that price, or you can go to a dealer or service that offers you that price out the gate.  I choose the latter.  who says Americans don't appreciate irony?


Hilarious. You really believe buying a large ticket item works that way don't you?


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## dvcochran (Aug 23, 2020)

W


Steve said:


> couple of hours?  I don't think so.  The price of the car is going to be withing a few hundred of whatever the fair market value is, which is easy to find online.  You might get free carwashes or a few hundred off, but that's about it.  I stay away from dealerships that expect you to haggle.  Frankly, if you're really interested in saving some dough, don't finance for more than 60 months, don't finance at all for more than 1 or 2%, and pay the car off early if you can.  Folks brag about saving a few hundred on the asking price while they finance at 5% for 84 it even 96 months.  Lol.


Well, you have the financing part right at least. But why would you ever think you know what a dealer has in a vehicle? That is what is going to set the price, not some made up 'fair market value' that is dictated by the automakers and dealers in the first place. Fair market value is just a sales tool to lure tools into thinking they got a good deal.


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## Buka (Aug 24, 2020)

granfire said:


> Don't call him Shirley



Nearly choked on my beer.


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## Steve (Aug 24, 2020)

dvcochran said:


> Hilarious. You really believe buying a large ticket item works that way don't you?


It can and does, but you've been socially conditioned.

Look at it like this.  I put myself through college by working in sales and know a little bit about how sales work.  The margin varies from industry to industry, but businesses rely on income.  I sold everything from furniture to jewelry to computers.  

Do you know what the standard markup for jewelry is?  About 400%, as a rule of thumb, though on some items it could be much higher.  But they don't sell on volume, and each sale basically keeps the lights on.  So, if you go into a jewelry store, even if you get 25% off the retail price, you're probably still paying at least 300% over the wholesale cost to the vendor.  This all translates to a typical operating margin overall for a jewelry store of 50% or more. 

What's the average retail markup for furniture?  When I sold furniture, it was between 200 and 300%.  The store I worked at was a small business boutique, and we did a lot of custom furniture.  Just me, one other guy, and the owner, so every one of us had to be able to design a piece of furniture and calculate an accurate wholesale cost plus shipping in order to apply our standard markup (225%) to give the customer a retail cost.  Did they haggle?  Well, they tried, but outside of a 10% designer discount (if you could show us your business card as an interior designer) you were out of luck.  Even if we sold items at 30% off, we were making a profit on that piece.   So, all of that translates to an average operating margin of about 40 to 50%. 

Standard markup for clothing is 200%.  So, it works very much the same as furniture, though at a lower price point, they rely more on volume, so depending on the retailer, you'll see a LOT of sales where they are operating closer to the margin.  This can be very profitable, but makes it hard to weather a bad economy.

There are many industries that run a lot closer to the margin.  It's harder to quantify the markup for a restaurant.  I mean, I guess you could look at what they pay for the fish of the day vs what they charge.  But we can still see their typical operating margin is much lower, around 5%.  That's been widely publicized as an effect of the pandemic on restaurants, local ones in particular which often run on a tighter margin to compete with chains.

So, where to car dealers fit in?  "The average pretax profit margins for car dealerships was just 2.2% last year, down from 2.3% a year prior, according to the National Automobile Dealers Association 2013 report -- and this year, that pretax profit margin is expected to remain at just 2.2%."   "Last year and this year" refer to 2013 and 2014, when the article was written.  So, I'll share with you what I heard from a neighbor who is a sales manager for a large car dealership, and has worked in auto sales for about 20 years.  To sum up what he said.  According to him, the markup (not margin) on a new car at MSRP is about 10% (give or take).  If you pay whatever the market value of the car is for your area, you are probably paying somewhere between 1 and 5% above the dealer cost, and are likely in the middle of that somewhere.  The dealers make their money in different ways.  Some focus on the used cars (which is a completely different kettle of fish), on parts and service, on repeat customers, volume sales (i.e., fleet sales and service), trade in values, and incentive from the auto maker.

If you're a committed haggler who wants the best deal, is willing to get last year's model, etc, you might actually save a few more percent.  What does this mean in real dollars?  If a car has an MSRP of $60,000.  The actual dealer cost is probably right about $54,000.  You're probably going to pay between $54,500, if you're a very skilled and committed haggler who is willing to leave the lot a few times and negotiate over a week or two, and $57,500 if you're not at all interested in haggling.  If you do some research online and aren't a complete jerk, you'll probably pay between $55k and $56,500.  If you financed 100% of this at 1.99% financing for 60 months, we are talking $20 to $50 per month difference in payments, less if you're like many people now who are financing cars for 72, 84, or even 96 months.  

All of that said, @dvcochran created a completely unnecessary dichotomy.  The kerfuffle here is that @dvcochran made a judgmental statement that folks who don't haggle are gullible and have been "socially conditioned".  That's a pretty disparaging position to take, and one that he can't really support beyond snide comments like the one I quoted above.  As far as I'm concerned, if you want the best deal and are willing to do that, go for it.  You might even save a few bucks, and everyone likes feeling good about a deal.  My goal here isn't to disparage anyone who chooses to dicker at the dealer.  It's not for me.  Similarly, you'll never find me at a Black Friday sale.  But I do love a good garage sale or thrift shop.  

So, that's what the point isn't.  The point is that there is plenty of actual information about how retail markup works.  Everything is marked up when new.  Retail vs wholesale prices are pretty significant.  How many of you school owners sell gear to your students at a "modest" markup?  If you buy a gi for $20 to $40 and sell it for $60 to 100, are your students gullible?  Are you ripping them off?   Also, car dealer prices aren't as jacked up as most people think, that as long as you know the average, fair market value for the new car you're looking to you shouldn't get ripped off.  And lastly, that folks who choose NOT to dicker at the dealership may just have different priorities from you.  People shop differently.


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## dvcochran (Aug 24, 2020)

Steve said:


> It can and does, but you've been socially conditioned.
> 
> Look at it like this.  I put myself through college by working in sales and know a little bit about how sales work.  The margin varies from industry to industry, but businesses rely on income.  I sold everything from furniture to jewelry to computers.
> 
> ...



Like I said, you can waste you time and money as you wish. I still call BS on your vehicle markup pricing determination. 
I am currently running 12 basic white service trucks. They are all 2017's bought in 2018. The sticker for each truck was somewhere north of $36k (I do not remember the exact price). I paid 24k for each truck, and my dealer was very honest that he still made money on each of them. I suspect this trend only goes higher on current model year vehicles. So you can buy all the auto market industry fed information you wish. But it is just that, market driven information to condition buyers to feel 'good' about what they are paying. 
You cannot seem to get beyond the dealer/retail barrier and understand there is the actual cost of a product. That is where the buyers position starts from.


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## Steve (Aug 24, 2020)

dvcochran said:


> Like I said, you can waste you time and money as you wish. I still call BS on your vehicle markup pricing determination.
> I am currently running 12 basic white service trucks. They are all 2017's bought in 2018. The sticker for each truck was somewhere north of $36k (I do not remember the exact price). I paid 24k for each truck, and my dealer was very honest that he still made money on each of them. I suspect this trend only goes higher on current model year vehicles. So you can buy all the auto market industry fed information you wish. But it is just that, market driven information to condition buyers to feel 'good' about what they are paying.
> You cannot seem to get beyond the dealer/retail barrier and understand there is the actual cost of a product. That is where the buyers position starts from.


Couple of quick thoughts.  Fleet sales are not the same as typical consumer sales.  So, if you're buying 12 service trucks (which is not something a consumer will ever do), the dealer could make money through incentives with the manufacturer.  If they're willing to pass those savings to you, great.  But that sort of purchasing power isn't available to a consumer.  When I sold furniture, the person who owned the store I worked at had a business partner in SoCal who had two stores of his own. Their partnership was, in large part, so that they had the purchasing power to import full shipping containers of goods, rather than partial containers.  Because they were buying in larger quantities, they could negotiate better terms with the manufacturers, and they saved money on shipping, as well.  Point is, I would be very careful drawing any conclusions about consumer retail prices from this.  It's just apples to oranges.

Second, the dealer invoice is the amount paid by the dealer to the auto manufacturer.  As noted above, sure they make some money through manufacturer incentives.  I just don't get why you're so derisive about it or call it BS.  I mentioned manufacturer incentives earlier.  I mentioned buying previous year models earlier.  You can get a good deal this way.  But those factors can come into play with or without haggling.  And neither the incentives nor buying previous year stock is intrinsic to haggling.  Nor is buying in bulk.   In fact, we see all of these things regularly in every day shopping.  Look at the price per unit on any item at the grocery store.  The larger the container, the cheaper the price per unit.  When you buy 24 rolls of toilet paper, it costs less per roll than when you buy 4.  No haggling required. 

You know.  I'm beginning to think you actually don't know as much about how car dealerships work as you're suggesting.  You seem to be basing your entire position on a fleet transaction you made a few years ago, I'm the one actually explaining the process, and the best you can say is, "I still call BS."   The impression I have is that you feel like you really got a really good deal, which is great.  Sounds like you did.  Good on you.  There is absolutely nothing wrong with haggling to get a better deal with a dealership that expects you to haggle.  If that's what it takes for you to feel good about your purchase, knock yourself out. 

But that doesn't make folks who don't purchase cars from dealerships which expect you to negotiate a price foolish or gullible or "socially conditioned" (whatever you mean by that).  That's where I think you're off base.


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## dvcochran (Aug 24, 2020)

Steve said:


> Couple of quick thoughts.  Fleet sales are not the same as typical consumer sales.  So, if you're buying 12 service trucks (which is not something a consumer will ever do), the dealer could make money through incentives with the manufacturer.  If they're willing to pass those savings to you, great.  But that sort of purchasing power isn't available to a consumer.  When I sold furniture, the person who owned the store I worked at had a business partner in SoCal who had two stores of his own. Their partnership was, in large part, so that they had the purchasing power to import full shipping containers of goods, rather than partial containers.  Because they were buying in larger quantities, they could negotiate better terms with the manufacturers, and they saved money on shipping, as well.  Point is, I would be very careful drawing any conclusions about consumer retail prices from this.  It's just apples to oranges.
> 
> Second, the dealer invoice is the amount paid by the dealer to the auto manufacturer.  As noted above, sure they make some money through manufacturer incentives.  I just don't get why you're so derisive about it or call it BS.  I mentioned manufacturer incentives earlier.  I mentioned buying previous year models earlier.  You can get a good deal this way.  But those factors can come into play with or without haggling.  And neither the incentives nor buying previous year stock is intrinsic to haggling.  Nor is buying in bulk.   In fact, we see all of these things regularly in every day shopping.  Look at the price per unit on any item at the grocery store.  The larger the container, the cheaper the price per unit.  When you buy 24 rolls of toilet paper, it costs less per roll than when you buy 4.  No haggling required.
> 
> ...


Again, whatever makes you feel good. You do realize the vast majority of consumables come here via ships in containers don’t you? That is a far cry from a big ticket purchase. I pay the same price as anyone else at Walmart or such. 
I am not a fleet buyer, far from it. I will only buy ever 5 or 6 years. I negotiate no different for my personal vehicles, farm equipment, home improvements/repairs, leisure craft and such. Hell, I even traded out a surgery once for electrical work. 
If you don’t like the phrase socially conditioned how about just plain lazy or lambs to slaughter?


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## Buka (Aug 24, 2020)

Car salesmen......must be a difficult job having nobody trust you.


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## Steve (Aug 24, 2020)

Buka said:


> Car salesmen......must be a difficult job having nobody trust you.


The same could be said for being a cop?


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## Steve (Aug 24, 2020)

dvcochran said:


> Again, whatever makes you feel good. You do realize the vast majority of consumables come here via ships in containers don’t you? That is a far cry from a big ticket purchase. I pay the same price as anyone else at Walmart or such.
> I am not a fleet buyer, far from it. I will only buy ever 5 or 6 years. I negotiate no different for my personal vehicles, farm equipment, home improvements/repairs, leisure craft and such. Hell, I even traded out a surgery once for electrical work.
> If you don’t like the phrase socially conditioned how about just plain lazy or lambs to slaughter?


I'm pretty sure you scanned my post, picked out a few key words and reacted.  Your post makes very little sense.


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## Buka (Aug 24, 2020)

Steve said:


> The same could be said for being a cop?



Nowadays, yup, there's a whole lot of that going around.


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## dvcochran (Aug 24, 2020)

Steve said:


> I'm pretty sure you scanned my post, picked out a few key words and reacted.  Your post makes very little sense.


Just following you lead.


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## Steve (Aug 24, 2020)

dvcochran said:


> Just following you lead.


It’s hilarious, because it’s so demonstrably untrue.  If anything, I’ve given you way more attention than you warrant, trying to respond to your posts earnestly and share actual information.  In contrast... you post things like this,


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## Steve (Aug 24, 2020)

Buka said:


> Nowadays, yup, there's a whole lot of that going around.


Like the catholic priests in Boston, the situation isn’t entirely unwarranted.


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## Buka (Aug 25, 2020)

Steve said:


> Like the catholic priests in Boston, the situation isn’t entirely unwarranted.



No, it's not. It makes me wonder about a lot of things. I don't personally know any cops who would do some of the things I've seen done on the news. And, trust me, I know a whole lot of cops, and I mean a whole LOT. More than probably anyone you know, or ever will know. Both personally and professionally.

It makes me wonder who the F trains some of these people I've seen on film.


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## Buka (Aug 25, 2020)

Back to the topic of this thread....

I think there will be a certain nostalgia for gas burning cars. Especially muscle cars.

And gas that was less than twenty five dollars a gallon.

And polar bears.


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## dvcochran (Aug 25, 2020)

Buka said:


> No, it's not. It makes me wonder about a lot of things. I don't personally know any cops who would do some of the things I've seen done on the news. And, trust me, I know a whole lot of cops, and I mean a whole LOT. More than probably anyone you know, or ever will know. Both personally and professionally.
> 
> It makes me wonder who the F trains some of these people I've seen on film.



I am convinced it has as much to do with the film makers and reporting group. And the ease to get Everything on video now a days. Funny how you seldom see the whole interaction until much later after an encounter if at all 
In our area and as far as I know every area, all officers are required to go through a federally regulated training academy. You would think that makes for a pretty level playing field but I still remember a few from my class that were, well squirrelly. Even in our area where there has been no social issues to speak of there is a shortage of LEO applicants and open positions. I can't imagine what is like in towns like Portland, Chicago or Stockton.


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## dvcochran (Aug 25, 2020)

Steve said:


> It’s hilarious, because it’s so demonstrably untrue.  If anything, I’ve given you way more attention than you warrant, trying to respond to your posts earnestly and share actual information.  In contrast... you post things like this,


Fair enough, but your 'information' is general knowledge that most everyone already knows. Retail markup is not some 'ancient Chinese secret'. I gave you real world, personal life experience and you kept trying to debunk it because it doesn't fit your agenda. Untruth is untruth no matter how you try to water it down or paint it a different color. 
I never said negotiation is easy. It is actually quite hard because personalities and emotions are involved. Two dynamics I have to work very hard at when trying to manipulate. 
Your logic appears to be coming from the common use of internet information, or should I say misinformation. One of the biggest pitfalls we can get into with the ease of information today is false of unfair conditioning.


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## Steve (Aug 25, 2020)

Buka said:


> No, it's not. It makes me wonder about a lot of things. I don't personally know any cops who would do some of the things I've seen done on the news. And, trust me, I know a whole lot of cops, and I mean a whole LOT. More than probably anyone you know, or ever will know. Both personally and professionally.
> 
> It makes me wonder who the F trains some of these people I've seen on film.


We can agree to disagree, because I see a lot of parallel.  Not every priest was a bad apple, the church hid the enormity of the issue from the public for as long as it could, it took decades for the church to publicly acknowledge the issues and commit to fixing them, and as a result, there is a long lasting mistrust.  ****, man.  It looks like another unarmed guy was shot in the back 7 times at point blank range in front of his three kids.  It seems to keep happening.  Things didn't change in the church until folks started believing the victims.



dvcochran said:


> I am convinced it has as much to do with the film makers and reporting group. And the ease to get Everything on video now a days. Funny how you seldom see the whole interaction until much later after an encounter if at all
> In our area and as far as I know every area, all officers are required to go through a federally regulated training academy. You would think that makes for a pretty level playing field but I still remember a few from my class that were, well squirrelly. Even in our area where there has been no social issues to speak of there is a shortage of LEO applicants and open positions. I can't imagine what is like in towns like Portland, Chicago or Stockton.


I think you're right.  It has a lot to do with the ease of getting things on video, so that people have some evidence that these "bad apples" aren't telling the truth. 



dvcochran said:


> Fair enough, but your 'information' is general knowledge that most everyone already knows. Retail markup is not some 'ancient Chinese secret'. I gave you real world, personal life experience and you kept trying to debunk it because it doesn't fit your agenda. Untruth is untruth no matter how you try to water it down or paint it a different color.
> I never said negotiation is easy. It is actually quite hard because personalities and emotions are involved. Two dynamics I have to work very hard at when trying to manipulate.
> Your logic appears to be coming from the common use of internet information, or should I say misinformation. One of the biggest pitfalls we can get into with the ease of information today is false of unfair conditioning.


Ah, so we're back to this one again.  You're sniping and snarking isn't your fault.  I'm just not sharing interesting enough information for you.  So your poor behavior is now my fault.  I'll give you one thing.  You are a master manipulator.  If I ever need any advice on manipulating folks and then being completely unaccountable, you're the first person I would go to. 

And so far, you're denying what you admit is common knowledge, and have instead entrenched behind that time you bought some amount of white vans (that number seems to change from post to post) from a guy who complimented you on being a master negotiator, and assured you that you got a really great deal.  We could talk about the psychology of that one. Whew. 

I have never claimed to be the keeper of any secrets.  In fact, I'm a big fan of believing things based on actual information and I generally like to provide sources.  So, if I know something, I'll still often look it up to make sure I'm not misremembering before sharing it.  And I do think sharing information vs sharing anecdotes is an important distinction.  Anecdotes are great, if they are supported by information.  They're like the cayenne pepper of discussions.  A little goes a long way.  But in the end, common knowledge is still actual knowledge.  Information that "everyone knows" is still information.  It may be a little boring, like rice and beans, but it's actual food.


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## Steve (Aug 25, 2020)

Buka said:


> Back to the topic of this thread....
> 
> I think there will be a certain nostalgia for gas burning cars. Especially muscle cars.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I mentioned driving actual cars earlier.  I think that will be a big one.  

But there are some electric cars that are scary fast, and electric motorcycles are crazy.


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## Buka (Aug 25, 2020)

Steve said:


> We can agree to disagree, because I see a lot of parallel.  Not every priest was a bad apple, the church hid the enormity of the issue from the public for as long as it could, it took decades for the church to publicly acknowledge the issues and commit to fixing them, and as a result, there is a long lasting mistrust.  ****, man.  It looks like another unarmed guy was shot in the back 7 times at point blank range in front of his three kids.  It seems to keep happening.  Things didn't change in the church until folks started believing the victims.
> 
> I think you're right.  It has a lot to do with the ease of getting things on video, so that people have some evidence that these "bad apples" aren't telling the truth.
> 
> ...



Catholic priests have been sexually abusing people, many of them children, for hundreds of years, world wide.


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## dvcochran (Aug 25, 2020)

Steve said:


> And so far, you're denying what you admit is common knowledge, and have instead entrenched behind that time you bought some amount of white vans (that number seems to change from post to post) from a guy who complimented you on being a master negotiator, and assured you that you got a really great deal. We could talk about the psychology of that one. Whew.


As usual I am having to clean up your poor attempts at misdirection. I am glad you were there with me when I purchased my last group of service trucks to regale the transaction. I have never wavered on quantity; 12 is 12. No dealer gave me their price. No body 'complimented' me which I would give 2 shxx's about. I determined the price and made the offer. I ended up going from a Dodge dealer to a Ford dealer to pay what I wanted to pay. 
Yea, I would say there is a great deal of psychological head games trying to be played. Myself and I am sure other are tired of your continual attempts to twist what has been said. A real dixx move. But at least you are consistent.


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## dvcochran (Aug 25, 2020)

Buka said:


> Catholic priests have been sexually abusing people, many of them children, for hundreds of years, world wide.


You know, it is one of those things I am aware of but it does not affect my sphere at all so I do not give it a ton of thought. 
A fuel depot is attempting to build relatively close to one of our properties. You can bet I am being very active in stopping it. We have voted down the plan, mostly stopped the property purchase with injunctions and a contract violation suit , and have 4 commissioners in the hot seat for what appear to be illegal contract negotiations. 
When it it affects me, my family, and my community I will get involved. What happens to the Pope, I will read about it and that is about it.


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## granfire (Aug 25, 2020)

dvcochran said:


> You know, it is one of those things I am aware of but it does not affect my sphere at all so I do not give it a ton of thought.
> A fuel depot is attempting to build relatively close to one of our properties. You can bet I am being very active in stopping it. We have voted down the plan, mostly stopped the property purchase with injunctions and a contract violation suit , and have 4 commissioners in the hot seat for what appear to be illegal contract negotiations.
> When it it affects me, my family, and my community I will get involved. What happens to the Pope, I will read about it and that is about it.


NIMBY....


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## Steve (Aug 25, 2020)

dvcochran said:


> As usual I am having to clean up your poor attempts at misdirection. I am glad you were there with me when I purchased my last group of service trucks to regale the transaction. I have never wavered on quantity; 12 is 12. No dealer gave me their price. No body 'complimented' me which I would give 2 shxx's about. I determined the price and made the offer. I ended up going from a Dodge dealer to a Ford dealer to pay what I wanted to pay.
> Yea, I would say there is a great deal of psychological head games trying to be played. Myself and I am sure other are tired of your continual attempts to twist what has been said. A real dixx move. But at least you are consistent.


Alright, calm down.  You're the guy talking about being a good manipulator.  You literally wrote it clearly as a point of pride.  You're the one saying that folks who don't do it your way are suckers.  You admit you aren't reading the posts to which you are responding.  What you can't admit is that you're just off base.  You're taking an extreme, judgmental position over something that really doesn't warrant it.

There is nothing wrong with haggling for a price.  While I am pretty certain you didn't save as much as you believe, you probably saved yourself some dough.  As I've said several time, good for you.  You got 12 commercial trucks for what you believe is a really good price, and clearly you still feel pretty darn great about it.  Way to go.

AND, some folks just aren't interested in the time and effort it takes to manipulate (in your words) the sales person in order to possibly save a few percent.  Nothing wrong with that, either.  As with martial arts, people do things for different reasons, and have different priorities.  If you buy literally anything new in any store, you're doing the same thing you consider others foolish for doing.  It's the same thing.. in fact, as I tried to painstakingly explain to you, it's probably more egregious.  Rather than 3 to 5% for a car, you're probably paying closer to 100 or 200% markup on clothes, furniture, food, jewelry, phones....  More on some things.  Or, I guess I'm presuming you don't haggle at the HEB or Piggly Wiggly.  I mean, I guess you could, though I'm not sure how agreeable they'd be to your attempts to manipulate them.

AND, you don't seem to know as much as you assert, because you flounder all over the place like a fish on the beach.  I share information and you share a war story about that time you bought 12 trucks.  I share the same information and you say I'm wrong.  I share the same information again and you say I'm right, but it's common knowledge.

Literally, all you have are war stories, arrogance, and insults.   That's what you bring to the party.  Well, that and a lack of accountability.


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## dvcochran (Aug 25, 2020)

Steve said:


> Alright, calm down.  You're the guy talking about being a good manipulator.  You literally wrote it clearly as a point of pride.  You're the one saying that folks who don't do it your way are suckers.  You admit you aren't reading the posts to which you are responding.  What you can't admit is that you're just off base.  You're taking an extreme, judgmental position over something that really doesn't warrant it.
> 
> There is nothing wrong with haggling for a price.  While I am pretty certain you didn't save as much as you believe, you probably saved yourself some dough.  As I've said several time, good for you.  You got 12 commercial trucks for what you believe is a really good price, and clearly you still feel pretty darn great about it.  Way to go.
> 
> ...



Do you even read the posts or just continue with your blather?


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## Steve (Aug 25, 2020)

dvcochran said:


> Do you even read the posts or just continue with your blather?


And that's a wrap, folks.


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## granfire (Aug 26, 2020)

Buka said:


> Catholic priests have been sexually abusing people, many of them children, for hundreds of years, world wide.


Not just catholic priests. 
we just had a youth pastor get busted, with cases all over the country, from a church where a friend of mine went, with a small boy......
being in authority, and 'Christian' is a really good cover!


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## Kung Fu Wang (Aug 29, 2020)

I was joking when I said that Ford Pinto was designed as a flying car.

*The Flying Pinto Was the Worst Idea in Flying Car History*

The idea was simple enough: take a regular *car* and a small airplane and modify them both, so a person could drive the *car* to an airport, fit the *car* and the waiting airframe together, take off from the runway, come down a few hundred miles away at another air strip, detach from the airframe and then drive the *car* away.


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## granfire (Sep 6, 2020)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> I was joking when I said that Ford Pinto was designed as a flying car.
> 
> *The Flying Pinto Was the Worst Idea in Flying Car History*
> 
> The idea was simple enough: take a regular *car* and a small airplane and modify them both, so a person could drive the *car* to an airport, fit the *car* and the waiting airframe together, take off from the runway, come down a few hundred miles away at another air strip, detach from the airframe and then drive the *car* away.


what could possibly go wrong?!


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## Kung Fu Wang (Sep 6, 2020)

granfire said:


> what could possibly go wrong?!


May be the Pinto 

- didn't have enough horse power to fly.
- was not strong enough to land.
- ...


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## dvcochran (Sep 7, 2020)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> May be the Pinto
> 
> - didn't have enough horse power to fly.
> - was not strong enough to land.
> - ...


And blew up on landing.


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## Ivan (Sep 10, 2020)

Chrisinmd said:


> In 50 years from now, what will people be nostalgic for from around today's time period?
> 
> And how accurate would people 50 years in the past from today (1970) have been at predicting what we today would be nostalgic about?


I would say listening to music from our smart phones or even phones in general. There are already talks about devices such as Elon Musk's replacing the functions of smartphones via brain chips etc


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## Flying Crane (Sep 12, 2020)

I think maybe in fifty years people will look back and say “hey remember when we could still breathe the air?  Remember when people used to live in California, Oregon, Washington, Utah, and Nevada, before it became it a firestorm hellscape?  Remember when the Western United States didn’t average in temperature over 120 degrees, and that vast desert was inhabitable and inhabited?”


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## Flying Crane (Sep 12, 2020)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> I was joking when I said that Ford Pinto was designed as a flying car.
> 
> *The Flying Pinto Was the Worst Idea in Flying Car History*
> 
> The idea was simple enough: take a regular *car* and a small airplane and modify them both, so a person could drive the *car* to an airport, fit the *car* and the waiting airframe together, take off from the runway, come down a few hundred miles away at another air strip, detach from the airframe and then drive the *car* away.


Maybe they explained this, but I don’t speak German.  But my question is, why the Pinto?  If they had done this with the Mustang, now that would have really taken off! (See what I did there?)


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