# Please help a clueless person...



## Mastodon (Jul 30, 2007)

Hi there, 

I want to start-up a martial art and am torn between Juijitsu and Bujikinkan Ninjutsu. To be blunt, what with living in London, I want to learn a martial art that will be practical enough to help me in that life of death situation. I understand there is no ultimate art and that each combat situation represesents its own dificulties, so I guess my question does require a degree of hypothesis; tbh, I am troubled by people saying that Ninjutsu is a lost art that holds no weight in modern society.

Your thoughts would be appreciated!


----------



## Kreth (Jul 30, 2007)

Both can be effective, it really depends on the instructor's focus. Check out one class of each and see which appeals to you.


----------



## jks9199 (Jul 30, 2007)

Kreth said:


> Both can be effective, it really depends on the instructor's focus. Check out one class of each and see which appeals to you.


I lack direct experience with the Bujinkan -- but my understanding is that, in time, it would be more effective.  BBT includes weapons, extensive striking, stand up and ground fighting.  BJJ is pretty much just grappling -- but it's taught in a way that you'll likely acquire good skills fairly quickly.

But Kreth gave about the best advice.  If you don't like it and you aren't having fun -- you won't train, and no art, not even Sumito, will help.


----------



## Brian R. VanCise (Jul 30, 2007)

Kreth said:


> Both can be effective, it really depends on the instructor's focus. Check out one class of each and see which appeals to you.


 
This is good sound advice.  See what is in your area and then go check them out to see if one of the Training Hall's fit's your individual needs.  Good luck!


----------



## Mastodon (Jul 30, 2007)

Yes, that's true. But I don't know how much knowledge i'll gain from watching a class  - I am not experienced in martial arts so don't really know what to look for and one class may not represent the art as a whole right?

Would really like to hear more comparisons of the two arts. Of course I understand that ultimately it is my decision and that each teacher is different etc.

Thanks so far all!

M.


----------



## jks9199 (Jul 30, 2007)

Mastodon said:


> Yes, that's true. But I don't know how much knowledge i'll gain from watching a class  - I am not experienced in martial arts so don't really know what to look for and one class may not represent the art as a whole right?
> 
> Would really like to hear more comparisons of the two arts. Of course I understand that ultimately it is my decision and that each teacher is different etc.
> 
> ...


You don't need to be experienced.  Look at what the students and teachers are doing.  Does it look like something you want to do?  Do you like the attitude they're displaying during class, and does the general feel of the class make you want to come back.  Or, is it like the KobraKai Dojo in the first Karate Kid movie?  

Neither will make you invincible.  Both will require time and practice.  BJJ is pretty much limited to 1-on-1 grappling; that's a problem for self defense.  (See numerous threads elsewhere on this forum for discussions of that.)  But, my understanding of BBT is that it'll take you more time to learn to a functional level.  Either is good; neither is perfect or flawless. 

That's why we're saying that the TEACHER should be your guide, not the style.


----------



## Mastodon (Jul 30, 2007)

Ok, fair enough. I'll keep an open mind until i go take a look...

I should make it clear that i'm not talking about Brazilian JJ, but the Japanese variety.

The only thing I currently know about the Ninjutsu dojo I am going to take a look is that they emphasise training it as a martial art not a sport and train on hard-floors with no padding in order to mimic combat conditions.


----------



## Kreth (Jul 30, 2007)

Mastodon said:


> The only thing I currently know about the Ninjutsu dojo I am going to take a look is that they emphasise training it as a martial art not a sport and train on hard-floors with no padding in order to mimic combat conditions.


If you post the name of the dojo here, there may be members who know/have trained with the instructor(s).


----------



## Mastodon (Jul 30, 2007)

It's a dojo in Hammersmith, London, England...


----------



## Vonbek (Jul 31, 2007)

Someone shall bite and kick and punch my face but...

The advice about the teacher is highly valuable. About the art in itself. 
The Majority of the schools teached in the Bujinkan are not that different form the classical Jujutsu schools (very roughly said). 
The difference lies in the spirit and the approach. 
In classical Jujutsu, the ryu is a whole in itself. You learn the ryu's waza, your approach of the fight comes from the ryu's approach. In the Bujinkan the wazas from the schools are a tool to understand the core of the different techniques, and when all of that is deeply rooted in your body, you're are free to act accordingly to your nature. 
In order to have an efficient training in the Bujinkan, you must find a good teacher (By the way, what is a good teacher?), this someone must also suit your needs.

I wish you good luck and success in your quest.


----------



## Shidoshi0153 (Aug 2, 2007)

Its funny you would mention the two of these arts, as they are somewhat compliments of each other.  I would suggest both to be honest.  BJJ focuses almost exclusively on ground techniques, while BBT will expose you to very little if any ground techniques.  

BBT will offer you more in the way of concepts and techniques, along with some variety of weapons, but in general, the training methods they incorporate are not the best these days.  With BJJ you will actually be able to randori and work on timing at realistic speeds.


----------



## Mastodon (Aug 2, 2007)

Thanks for the posts, I think I will give BBT a go  - providing I am happy with the local dojo when I go to have a look!

Incidentally, I have recentally been made aware of Krav Maga which sounds like an awesome fighting method. I might do both at the same time in order to broaden my defensive capabilities. Anyone have any experience with Krav Maga? Think they would be a good combo?

M.


----------



## shesulsa (Aug 2, 2007)

Mastodon said:


> Thanks for the posts, I think I will give BBT a go  - providing I am happy with the local dojo when I go to have a look!
> 
> Incidentally, I have recentally been made aware of Krav Maga which sounds like an awesome fighting method. I might do both at the same time in order to broaden my defensive capabilities. Anyone have any experience with Krav Maga? Think they would be a good combo?
> 
> M.


In the first place, let me say that no - ABSOLUTELY NO - online or video training method will EVER give you ALL that you need to be successful.  

As far as Krav, I've only ever liked what I've seen and encourage you to ask in the Krav section.


----------



## Mastodon (Aug 2, 2007)

Who said anything anything about online or video training???

I'm talking about proper lessons...

I don't see why I cannot ask here as i'm talking about the possibility of combining it with BBT.

Thanks anyway.


----------



## jks9199 (Aug 2, 2007)

Mastodon said:


> Who said anything anything about online or video training???
> 
> I'm talking about proper lessons...
> 
> ...


From what little I know of the two systems -- you may find them to be at odds, especially for a beginner.

BBT seems to emphasize controlling the space around the attacker, controlling their balance, and taking them out.  (Note that this is only my impression from posters here, and similar sources.  I could be dead wrong!)

Krav Maga is, from what I've seen, a very direct approach emphasizing dominating and destroying an attacker quickly, with less of the subtlety and "higher concepts" of BBT.  All of the Krav Maga I've seen seems to focus on strikes, with holds only to enable more strikes.  (Again -- that's just my perception, without any actual hands on training.)

I realize that I'm probably speaking Greek to you.  I think you may find combining them, especially as a beginner, to be something like trying to combine French cooking with low fat & low calorie cooking.  A few people probably can do it... but most are going to make a mess.


----------



## stephen (Aug 2, 2007)

Mastodon said:


> It's a dojo in Hammersmith, London, England...




That dojo is very good.


----------



## Mastodon (Aug 3, 2007)

Cool! Any reason in particular?


----------



## kouryuu (Aug 5, 2007)

Mastodon said:


> It's a dojo in Hammersmith, London, England...


 
The guy's name is Duncan Olby, he has been training in the Bujinkan for over 20 years and travels to japan at least once a year(family permitting!)for his training, he's well worth a visit


----------

