# Collapsable batons....good or bad for carrying?



## beau_safken (Mar 21, 2006)

You know the ones.  Telescoping batons that are used for self defense.  Illegal or legal to carry?


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## RoninPimp (Mar 21, 2006)

Illegal in most areas.


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## elder999 (Mar 21, 2006)

RoninPimp said:
			
		

> Illegal in most areas.


 
While that's mostly irrelevant-and partially untrue, in that if you have CCW, it's usually not just for firearms-I have to say, having owned and used several, that they're generally worthless, and good for only one-time use, especially if you hit "something" really hard.

After that, they usually don't collapse anymore.....pretty cool things to play with, though.....


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## RoninPimp (Mar 21, 2006)

How is answering the question irrelavent? They are indeed illegal to carry in MOST areas.


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## SFC JeffJ (Mar 21, 2006)

Not illegal where I'm at.  And if you get the good quatlity ones, they last a good long while.  Love mine, goes a lot of places with me.  Never had it bend out of true even, and it gets a lot of hard impact.


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## Rich Parsons (Mar 21, 2006)

elder999 said:
			
		

> While that's mostly irrelevant-and partially untrue, in that if you have CCW, it's usually not just for firearms-I have to say, having owned and used several, that they're generally worthless, and good for only one-time use, especially if you hit "something" really hard.
> 
> After that, they usually don't collapse anymore.....pretty cool things to play with, though.....


 
I believe in Michigan it is a CPL for Pistol License, which means you cannot carry a knife, or a bat, or a baton or a sawed off shot-gun. 

Could you let me know which states allow a CCW to carry other than a Gun. I would be very interested in the legislation to present to the Michigan State legislation so I could get a permit to carry my ever day carry (* EDC *) which is over the size limit in most if not all states.

Thanks


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## beau_safken (Mar 21, 2006)

Hmmm thats the first time I heard you needed a Conceal carry license to carry a knife...or such device...  Weird.  Hmmmm

California doesn't give out those because criminals are the only ones allowed to legally carry.  

Sides San Fran has literally banned owning a pistol at all...weird eh?


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## tshadowchaser (Mar 21, 2006)

Highly illigal to carry whee i am but I do love those littl expandable batons


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## bushidomartialarts (Mar 21, 2006)

portable, easily concealed.  i'm pretty sure they're legal to carry in oregon, so long as they're plainly visible (heck, switchblades are legal out here).  

i used to love my collapsable baton -- it was pricey, and withstood some serious wallops.  and then i got into cane fighting.

the cane is the absolute best walk-around weapon there is.


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## Hand Sword (Mar 21, 2006)

I love how even though they're illegal to have in my state, you could easily find them in stores and buy them over the counter. I used to love mine, made a great companion on the overnight shift, doing a security patrol-- alone. However, the ones I got never did last that long.


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## KenpoTex (Mar 22, 2006)

Rich Parsons said:
			
		

> I believe in Michigan it is a CPL for Pistol License, which means you cannot carry a knife, or a bat, or a baton or a sawed off shot-gun.
> 
> Could you let me know which states allow a CCW to carry other than a Gun. I would be very interested in the legislation to present to the Michigan State legislation so I could get a permit to carry my ever day carry (* EDC *) which is over the size limit in most if not all states.
> 
> Thanks


In Missouri, with a CCW we can carry *ANY* knife except for an automatic or a balisong (no blade length restrictions, single or double-edge, fixed-blade or folder, whatever).  We can also carry impact weapons including blackjacks, saps, batons, etc.
In Florida (to the best of my knowledge) CCW holders can carry automatics, and I believe, fixed blades.  I think Kentucky is another state where it's a concealed *weapons* license, not just a concealed handgun license.

edit: (with regard to the original post).  Threads like this crack me up...If you want to discuss the merits or methods of using a particular weapon, fine.  However, I don't understand why someone would get on here to ask about the legality of a particular weapon in their area.  Think about it, you're asking people you don't know, many/most of whom are from different states, whether something is legal in _your_ state.  No matter how well-intentioned people may be, they can give you false information.  When it comes to weapons, it's much better to find out for yourself.  Because, after all, you're the one that's ultimately responsible for whatever you choose to carry.  Just do a google search for your state weapons statutes, they're not hard to find.  That way you'll know for sure.


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## MJS (Mar 22, 2006)

Personally, I've never seen anyone carry one, excpet for a LEO.

Mike


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## elder999 (Mar 22, 2006)

RoninPimp said:
			
		

> How is answering the question irrelavent? They are indeed illegal to carry in MOST areas.


 
While it was relevant in terms of his having asked it, it's _mostly_ an irrelevance in that, well, I'm not going to let the law stop me from carrying a weapon if I feel the need to......and neither should anyone else.


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## kickcatcher (Mar 22, 2006)

Illegal in most places in Europe, including UK. Aside from LE, I've never seen anyone use an extendablre batton. I have seen people use pick-axe handles and side-arm battons (tofna...) for "real" - both cases the guy with the batton was not justified - the victim of the pick-axe handle attack was able to leg it out of harms way and the tonfna appeared rather inadequate and despite many blows, the victim was able to retreat still mouthing-off. These telescopic battons tend to be lighter (at least the ones I've seen), so whilst they _can_ be used effectively, I wouldn't rate them as all that. I'm sure they are attractive to weapons fetishists so each to their own I guess.


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## beau_safken (Mar 22, 2006)

kenpotex said:
			
		

> edit: (with regard to the original post). Threads like this crack me up...If you want to discuss the merits or methods of using a particular weapon, fine. However, I don't understand why someone would get on here to ask about the legality of a particular weapon in their area. Think about it, you're asking people you don't know, many/most of whom are from different states, whether something is legal in _your_ state. No matter how well-intentioned people may be, they can give you false information. When it comes to weapons, it's much better to find out for yourself. Because, after all, you're the one that's ultimately responsible for whatever you choose to carry. Just do a google search for your state weapons statutes, they're not hard to find. That way you'll know for sure.


 
Because it is interesting to hear people's opinions mostly I guess.  Course I could do a Google search, but then I wouldn't hear all the nice alternatives to said weapon.  But point well taken...however in Cali its kinda of a mute point as pretty much everything is illegal.


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## terryl965 (Mar 22, 2006)

I love the collapsible batons easy to carry and easy to use.
Terry


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## INDYFIGHTER (Mar 22, 2006)

I have several I've bought over the years.  My buddy and I dressed up our senior year in high school and posed as security guard new hires for a local company to buy them at a secuity supply store.  Told the guy we'd signed up for the 'class'.  I've never hit anyone with one.  I've been stopped and had them found on me by the police in searches and they always ask about it but they've never taken it.


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## Rich Parsons (Mar 22, 2006)

MJS said:
			
		

> Personally, I've never seen anyone carry one, except for a LEO.
> 
> Mike


 
They were very popular in the 80's by a lot of people.

I say more than one bend or wrap around another weapon. Which made the people think it was no good for further action. Both stopped, Hmmm you do what you train, as in broken equipment, you break?

Well I do not like them but that is just personal.


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## Rich Parsons (Mar 22, 2006)

kenpotex said:
			
		

> In Missouri, with a CCW we can carry *ANY* knife except for an automatic or a balisong (no blade length restrictions, single or double-edge, fixed-blade or folder, whatever). We can also carry impact weapons including blackjacks, saps, batons, etc.
> In Florida (to the best of my knowledge) CCW holders can carry automatics, and I believe, fixed blades. I think Kentucky is another state where it's a concealed *weapons* license, not just a concealed handgun license.


 
Thank you and When I get home this gives me a place to begin my search.




			
				kenpotex said:
			
		

> edit: (with regard to the original post). Threads like this crack me up...If you want to discuss the merits or methods of using a particular weapon, fine. However, I don't understand why someone would get on here to ask about the legality of a particular weapon in their area. Think about it, you're asking people you don't know, many/most of whom are from different states, whether something is legal in _your_ state. No matter how well-intentioned people may be, they can give you false information. When it comes to weapons, it's much better to find out for yourself. Because, after all, you're the one that's ultimately responsible for whatever you choose to carry. Just do a google search for your state weapons statutes, they're not hard to find. That way you'll know for sure.


 
I agree, it is not what I would expect. Yet I did get some new information from you.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Mar 22, 2006)

Get an ASP expandable baton they will not bend unless you use some ungodly amount of force. They will also retract and extend for a long time. Most LEO use ASP if they are allowed to carry them. Here is a 
link to one dealer whom I have never ordered from before but at least
you can see the picture and the price. I have had several for a long time 
and have never experienced a problem. http://www.copsplus.com/prodnum1551.php

Brian R. VanCise
www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com


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## SFC JeffJ (Mar 22, 2006)

ASP is the only way to go for that type of baton.  Wouldn't get anything else.  They cost, but if you are going to use one as a defensive weapon, it's well worth it.


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## Cujo (Mar 23, 2006)

I'm an ASP instructor and believe me, I will not teach anything that I do not believe works. ASP batons are tough, reliable, and easy to use. (They are also VERY effective).
Pax
Cujo


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## Hand Sword (Mar 24, 2006)

I like them, plus, it beats walking around with a big stick!


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## Drac (Mar 24, 2006)

MJS said:
			
		

> Personally, I've never seen anyone carry one, excpet for a LEO.
> 
> Mike


 
Nor have I..In many States you have to be a LEO in order to undertake the training..I remember the time when only LEO's could purchase one..


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## still learning (Mar 25, 2006)

Hello, A good friend of mines lives in LA and bought a collapsable baton, whip style.  He and his friends got into a road rage with a another car and both sides came out to fight.  He use the baton on the 6' guy, hitting couple of times on the head, and did not phase the guy, so he kick him to take him down.

later he give it away.... not big enough and no weight...like using chop sticks?  ....Aloha


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## thetruth (Mar 25, 2006)

I'm not a fan of carrying weapons full stop.  Would much prefer to use the environment and what it has to offer.  It is also something to be used against you.  Plus Australia's law is very strict so even if I was to defend my self with an extendable baton I would end up in prison too, probably with the guy I defended myself against but with out my trusty baton.

Cheers
Sam


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## bushidomartialarts (Mar 25, 2006)

i understand the theory behind the whip ones, but they're too short for the theory to work.

a solid asp to the head will get a man's complete and undivided attention.

(but canes are still better)


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## Drac (Mar 25, 2006)

bushidomartialarts said:
			
		

> but canes are still better)


 
Amen Brother..A totally unassuming and devistating weapon..As Grandmaster Shuey Sr of CaneMasters says "A billyclub with a meathook"..


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## Hand Sword (Mar 27, 2006)

thetruth said:
			
		

> I'm not a fan of carrying weapons full stop. Would much prefer to use the environment and what it has to offer. It is also something to be used against you. Plus Australia's law is very strict so even if I was to defend my self with an extendable baton I would end up in prison too, probably with the guy I defended myself against but with out my trusty baton.
> 
> Cheers
> Sam


 
True, But, you'd be in a lot better shape!


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## West_Virginia_judoka (Mar 28, 2006)

The best practical legal tool is a 4/5/6 D-cell Maglite flashlight. It is legal to carry everywhere. It doesn't bend as easily as an collapsable baton. And it has enough heft, those D-cell lead batteries add mass, to dent someone if needed. 

I teach the local LEO's. They have stopped using the plastic tonfa. The ASP might be used on someone weighting less than 150 lbs. More than that, out comes the Maglite.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Mar 28, 2006)

An ASP baton in the hand's of a trained user is a very, very effective tool. I have little fear of my ASP bending unless I was hitting it against a steel beam repeatedly. : )

The whip style batons are just not effective at all for what I do and are generally poorly made. : (

Brian R. VanCise
www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com


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## beau_safken (Mar 28, 2006)

ASP....  gotta get one of those for my Bday I think....  Do they have some shaped like a umbrella


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## Drac (Mar 29, 2006)

beau_safken said:
			
		

> ASP.... gotta get one of those for my Bday I think.... Do they have some shaped like a umbrella


 
Look into a Monadnock baton..They are a heck of a lot easier to close...


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## beau_safken (Mar 29, 2006)

Drac said:
			
		

> Look into a Monadnock baton..They are a heck of a lot easier to close...


 
Thanks for the tip, I'll check that out.


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## Flatlander (Apr 18, 2006)

I finally got to play with an ASP.  The handle was a bit longer than I expected - I figured there'd be at least 4 sections, maybe 5, and that they'd all be shorter.   I was expecting it to maybe fit in a pocket a bit better than that.   Anyway, if you had a good holster for it, it wouldn't be too bad.

It was a bit shorter than my 33" hickory, and a little heavier.  You'd have to work with it quite a while before you could really move it well, IMO.  The grip was good - foamy and grippy, but tight.

All in all, I couldn't carry one here unless it was much more concealable (they're illegal here), and I'd rather rip with my hickory (a little more forgiving), which I can't carry with me either.


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## Hand Sword (Apr 19, 2006)

At least the narrow's down your choice of what to carry.


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## frank raud (Apr 20, 2006)

bushidomartialarts said:
			
		

> i understand the theory behind the whip ones, but they're too short for the theory to work.
> 
> a solid asp to the head will get a man's complete and undivided attention.
> 
> (but canes are still better)


I haven't used a new issue one, but have played with an authentic WWII spring cosh, and it is quite capable of doing serious damage. The problem with it is not the damage it can do by striking, it is the damage you can do to yourself as the rebound of the head off your target is not controllable.


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## Hand Sword (Apr 21, 2006)

:erg:  Oww!


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## Henderson (Apr 21, 2006)

My Asp is usually with me on a daily basis.


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## Hand Sword (May 1, 2006)

Yep! Better to be caught with it, than without it, if needed!


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## Drac (May 2, 2006)

Hand Sword said:
			
		

> Yep! Better to be caught with it, than without it, if needed!


 
Yep...


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## Kwiter (May 2, 2006)

Why not a nice Maple Str8 Cane as a walking stick?


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## still learning (May 2, 2006)

Hello, Carrying a conceal weapon, like the collapsable batons, will you be more prone to attack someone and use it? ....or walk away?

People who carry weapons...seems to be more intend on fighting back...then escaping or avoiding situtions.  Therefore leads to more trouble.  (Have it..most likely to use it).

Carrying a cane or walking stick (heavy duty type), or a nice mag flash light is legal everywhere.  Have you try the 5 "C" size mag light? ...it is smaller in diameter, than the "D" sizes, and lighter too...still have the weight to cause some damages. One is always under my seat. (Use for,as a Flash light.)

Best to practice awareness and running.......safer....Aloha


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## Hand Sword (May 3, 2006)

From my experience, only the criminals that carry are intent on using. Those others that carry, do so, because they can't handle the "tough guys", and use only when attacked.


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