# Robbed at Gunpoint, Some Bronx Victims Resist



## arnisador (Apr 28, 2013)

[h=1]Robbed at Gunpoint, Some Bronx Victims Resist[/h]





> The first armed robbery attempt was in October, on a residential Bronx  block near an elevated train stop. The victim fought back. He was shot  in the leg.
> 
> The next came a month later and roughly a mile away. Once again, the victim resisted and was shot.
> 
> ...




Seems like quite a risk to me if only money is on the line--of course, one never knows that for sure. The speculation in the article on why more people are resisting in some areas (though not nationally) is interesting but doesn't seem to come to a clear conclusion.


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## Cyriacus (Apr 28, 2013)

Well, theyre free to risk their lives over some money. *shrugs*
Choice and consequence.


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## Drasken (Apr 29, 2013)

arnisador said:


> [h=1]Robbed at Gunpoint, Some Bronx Victims Resist[/h]
> 
> 
> Seems like quite a risk to me if only money is on the line--of course, one never knows that for sure. The speculation in the article on why more people are resisting in some areas (though not nationally) is interesting but doesn't seem to come to a clear conclusion.



Personally with my training I'd rather give up the money. I'm more than capable of dealing with the threat, but the risk is too much.
People may be more desperate for their money. Or there could be more to the stories. For example, if I were asked to give up my wallet, no problem. If I were ordered to get in a car to be taken to a bank to empty my account... Well, no I'm not getting in your car. If you're going to shoot me you'll do it right here.
I know in the last 2 years we had a group here that were riding around to find their lone victims. They would then stalk them and attack at gunpoint, then order them into the car. After emptying their account, there was a 50/50 chance that they'd let you go or shoot you and dump your body.

So there could be more to it, or the guys might be all gung ho and feel their money is more important than their lives. Which is their choice, more power to them. I'd still suggest losing the wallet and canceling the cards personally.


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## MJS (Apr 29, 2013)

Yup, its a 50-50 chance....hand over your stuff, and hopefully it'll just be a bad memory, or hand over your stuff, and still get blown away.  Personally, I wish we heard more stories about victims who turned the table on the bad guys, with a gun of their own.  Anyways...I hate to see the bad guys always win, so I'm more inclined to say that it'd be worth fighting back.  Of course, it's important to view each situation accordingly.


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## jezr74 (Apr 29, 2013)

Drasken said:


> Personally with my training I'd rather give up the money. I'm more than capable of dealing with the threat, but the risk is too much.
> People may be more desperate for their money. Or there could be more to the stories. For example, if I were asked to give up my wallet, no problem. If I were ordered to get in a car to be taken to a bank to empty my account... Well, no I'm not getting in your car. If you're going to shoot me you'll do it right here.
> I know in the last 2 years we had a group here that were riding around to find their lone victims. They would then stalk them and attack at gunpoint, then order them into the car. After emptying their account, there was a 50/50 chance that they'd let you go or shoot you and dump your body.
> 
> So there could be more to it, or the guys might be all gung ho and feel their money is more important than their lives. Which is their choice, more power to them. I'd still suggest losing the wallet and canceling the cards personally.




Absolutely agree, never ever get in the car.


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## jezr74 (Apr 29, 2013)

MJS said:


> Yup, its a 50-50 chance....hand over your stuff, and hopefully it'll just be a bad memory, or hand over your stuff, and still get blown away.  Personally, I wish we heard more stories about victims who turned the table on the bad guys, with a gun of their own.  Anyways...I hate to see the bad guys always win, so I'm more inclined to say that it'd be worth fighting back.  Of course, it's important to view each situation accordingly.




Gun, fist, legs, stick, handbag or good Samaritans helping out. The more they publicize this the better, start the promotion of positive feedback and re-enforcement. I'd like to know more about what your\my rights are when going to the defense of people. A lot of stories I hear of people not getting involved is not that they feel they will get hurt. (which is a real threat), but they worry about being sued for one reason or the other.


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## MJS (Apr 29, 2013)

jezr74 said:


> Gun, fist, legs, stick, handbag or good Samaritans helping out. The more they publicize this the better, start the promotion of positive feedback and re-enforcement. I'd like to know more about what your\my rights are when going to the defense of people. A lot of stories I hear of people not getting involved is not that they feel they will get hurt. (which is a real threat), but they worry about being sued for one reason or the other.



As of right now, my course of action, when it comes to helping someone else, is to call the cops, stay on the phone with them, and be a good witness.  Too many times, we hear about a guy beating the **** out of his wife, gf, the cops come in, go to arrest the guy, and all of a sudden, the girl turns on the cops, and starts attacking them!  

Like I said, I'd have to assess each situation and go from there.  Some little old lady getting knocked to the ground by some punk trying to steal her purse....yeah, I'd be more inclined to try to offer some aid.  Then again, in those seconds, I need to weigh my decision.  This guy pulls a gun and blows me away..is it worth me dying for someone elses purse?  I'm sure that sounds cold and mean, lol...but you know where I'm coming from.


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## chinto (Apr 29, 2013)

you have to call the situation as you see it! if you are the one being robbed, the question is will he/she shoot anyway?  if the answer is yes, then you better get very very very violent and try and kill that individual or at least maim them enough they can not be a threat! ( yes this means getting past the muzzle and controlling the gun and then do as much damage as you can as fast as you can!  

On the other hand if you do NOT think they will shoot but just take the money and run.. give them the stupid money!

as to helping some one else... that is your call! and remember people get sued and all sorts of stupid BS for helping. so call it as you see it and live with the consequences.


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## Dirty Dog (Apr 29, 2013)

Been there, done that, gave the guy my wallet, he tried to kill me anyway. What I *should* have done was drop the wallet and when he took his eyes off me, dropped *him*. Had I done that, I'd still have two eyes.
These days, I'd drop the wallet and then shoot the bad guy. Repeatedly.

Of course, if certain people have their way, that won't be an option and only the thug will be armed.


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## Drasken (Apr 29, 2013)

Thankfully in Texas the law is more on your side as a victim. If someone is robbing someone else at gunpoint, just pull your weapon and shoot them. When the cops come they take witness statements, check for your concealed carry license and tell you to have a good day as long as everything checks out and there are no questions surrounding the incident.

Other than that you definitely have to play it by ear. And stay calm. Which is harder than people think, especially with a weapon involved. I've been robbed twice. Once I hurt the guy before he could hurt or kill me. The other time we were both calm, I gave up the wallet and laughed as he walked away with a 6 year old beat up $20 wallet I had planned on replacing and a debit card that was canceled before he could use it. I laughed even harder when he tried to buy beer with my card and got arrested.
You can USUALLY tell how things are going to go by the way a crook acts during the robbery. And if you're calm it throws them off because they aren't expecting that. It's all about psychology.


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## jezr74 (Apr 29, 2013)

Drasken said:


> Thankfully in Texas the law is more on your side as a victim. If someone is robbing someone else at gunpoint, just pull your weapon and shoot them. When the cops come they take witness statements, check for your concealed carry license and tell you to have a good day as long as everything checks out and there are no questions surrounding the incident.
> 
> Other than that you definitely have to play it by ear. And stay calm. Which is harder than people think, especially with a weapon involved. I've been robbed twice. Once I hurt the guy before he could hurt or kill me. The other time we were both calm, I gave up the wallet and laughed as he walked away with a 6 year old beat up $20 wallet I had planned on replacing and a debit card that was canceled before he could use it. I laughed even harder when he tried to buy beer with my card and got arrested.
> You can USUALLY tell how things are going to go by the way a crook acts during the robbery. And if you're calm it throws them off because they aren't expecting that. It's all about psychology.



Is that how it goes down? You can shoot if you see a armed mugging or robbery? You don't need to state your intention or along those lines. Are police able top do that as well?




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## jezr74 (Apr 29, 2013)

Dirty Dog said:


> Been there, done that, gave the guy my wallet, he tried to kill me anyway. What I *should* have done was drop the wallet and when he took his eyes off me, dropped *him*. Had I done that, I'd still have two eyes.
> These days, I'd drop the wallet and then shoot the bad guy. Repeatedly.
> 
> Of course, if certain people have their way, that won't be an option and only the thug will be armed.



Well I hope that time never comes around again for you.


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## Drasken (Apr 29, 2013)

jezr74 said:


> Is that how it goes down? You can shoot if you see a armed mugging or robbery? You don't need to state your intention or along those lines. Are police able top do that as well?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It depends. Stating your intention is required, yes. But you can state your intention literally a second before firingif the situation warrants it. Also if shots are fired or the criminal is making aggressive gestures with the weapon you may fire with no warning as it is believed that you are in danger.
Basically we have laws that state if you are threatened or feel you or someone else's life is idanger, stand your ground. If threatened with serious to deadly force, you are fully within your rights to use deadly force in self defense.
You'd be surprised as well. People think that because of that law, we would have more violence. But we don't. Criminals know that anyone could have a concealed carry permit. And we are able to use deadly force if metaphorically backed into a corner. So it's rare for violent crime to happen. Unless it is related to gangs or the cartels.

Also, I know of only one case in the past few years where someone tried to exploit that stand your ground law. And he's in prison right now. We don't play around in Texas when it comes to violent crimes.


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## jezr74 (Apr 29, 2013)

Drasken said:


> It depends. Stating your intention is required, yes. But you can state your intention literally a second before firingif the situation warrants it. Also if shots are fired or the criminal is making aggressive gestures with the weapon you may fire with no warning as it is believed that you are in danger.
> Basically we have laws that state if you are threatened or feel you or someone else's life is idanger, stand your ground. If threatened with serious to deadly force, you are fully within your rights to use deadly force in self defense.
> You'd be surprised as well. People think that because of that law, we would have more violence. But we don't. Criminals know that anyone could have a concealed carry permit. And we are able to use deadly force if metaphorically backed into a corner. So it's rare for violent crime to happen. Unless it is related to gangs or the cartels.
> 
> Also, I know of only one case in the past few years where someone tried to exploit that stand your ground law. And he's in prison right now. We don't play around in Texas when it comes to violent crimes.



It looks fairly high if you look at 2010 statistics, just looking at Wikipedia, but it doesn't differentiate the type of homicides. So it might be the cartel influence.

Very interested in traveling to Texas while here, looks like an interesting state.




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## Drasken (Apr 29, 2013)

jezr74 said:


> It looks fairly high if you look at 2010 statistics, just looking at Wikipedia, but it doesn't differentiate the type of homicides. So it might be the cartel influence.
> 
> Very interested in traveling to Texas while here, looks like an interesting state.
> 
> ...



We have problems with gangs and cartels for sure. The border towns are almost a warzone at times. For a while, hearing about Cartels unleashing hit squads with machine guns were fairly common. But that seems to have died down some thankfully, though news might just be not reporting it. Still the border towns are horrible.

Here we still have violence, but as I said it is mostly gangs.
We still have the occasional bar fight etc just like everywhere else. But we're not nearly as bad off as Detroit or Chicago.


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## Zero (Jun 12, 2013)

Drasken said:


> We still have the occasional bar fight etc just like everywhere else. But we're not nearly as bad off as Detroit or Chicago.


Is that right?  I had a good friend, not from, but who worked in Detroit for several years, left about 2 yrs back.  He said his experience going out was that people were less inclined to get into fights or to act on what might be minor provocations as no one knew who was armed or not, sounded like a good thing if that was correct. I'm pretty sure that was re Detroit.


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## DavidMoreland (Jul 6, 2013)

Drasken said:


> Thankfully in Texas the law is more on your side as a victim. If someone is robbing someone else at gunpoint, just pull your weapon and shoot them. When the cops come they take witness statements, check for your concealed carry license and tell you to have a good day as long as everything checks out and there are no questions surrounding the incident.


Its ok when you have weapons but what about that circumstances when i  have not weapon to fire on robber?


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## Cyriacus (Jul 6, 2013)

DavidMoreland said:


> Its ok when you have weapons but what about that circumstances when i  have not weapon to fire on robber?



Dont interfere. Simple.


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## DavidMoreland (Jul 23, 2013)

Cyriacus said:


> Dont interfere. Simple.


No, that's not the solution I think one has to use common sense if don't have weapon to fire on robber, If we have mobile call on the emergency police number. but, better to learn self defense tactics to handle this type situation when one doesn't have a weapon.


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## Balrog (Aug 14, 2013)

arnisador said:


> *Robbed at Gunpoint, Some Bronx Victims Resist*
> 
> Seems like quite a risk to me if only money is on the line--of course, one never knows that for sure. The speculation in the article on why more people are resisting in some areas (though not nationally) is interesting but doesn't seem to come to a clear conclusion.


When the weapon comes out, all bets are off.  Your life is on the line.


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## DavidMoreland (Aug 19, 2013)

But we have to use weapon whenever actually required but only to protect ourself and others and avoid the misusage of it because it's a serious crime so handle with care.


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## Takai (Aug 19, 2013)

DavidMoreland said:


> Its ok when you have weapons but what about that circumstances when i  have not weapon to fire on robber?



The most important weapon you have is the one between your ears. Use accordingly.


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## Tgace (Aug 19, 2013)

Takai said:


> The most important weapon you have is the one between your ears. Use accordingly.



True...but many smart people get killed by people with weapons. 

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## Takai (Aug 20, 2013)

Tgace said:


> True...but many smart people get killed by people with weapons.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I405 using Tapatalk 2



But where they "thinking" or just "reacting" at the time? Being smart doesn't indicate that you have common sense.


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## Tgace (Aug 20, 2013)

The whole "your mind is the greatest weapon" has become a platitude. Its true but many people misunderstand it. My mind tells me that if I have to place myself or my loved ones into a situation that increases our risk I should bring a weapon. 

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## Takai (Aug 21, 2013)

Tgace said:


> The whole "your mind is the greatest weapon" has become a platitude. Its true but many people misunderstand it. My mind tells me that if I have to place myself or my loved ones into a situation that increases our risk I should bring a weapon.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I405 using Tapatalk 2



A meaningless, banal, triviality? That is what you consider it? You are correct that most people just pay it lip service but that doesn't cause it to be any less applicable. I find it to more of an elucidation than a platitude. People just don't seem to be able to think anymore but....YMMV.


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## DavidMoreland (Aug 26, 2013)

Tgace said:


> The whole "your mind is the greatest weapon" has become a platitude. Its true but many people misunderstand it. My mind tells me that if I have to place myself or my loved ones into a situation that increases our risk I should bring a weapon.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I405 using Tapatalk 2



I agree with your point that our mind is thebiggest weapon because this is our mind who tell us to use weapon but if wehave good control on our mind no one force us to use it.


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## Fritz (Oct 24, 2013)

Hmmm, depends on "where" this took place in the Bronx. Anywhere but Riverdale I would wager that the person being mugged was going to be shot anyway and the only reason they were not shot yet was b/c they didn't hand over their money. They know it. The attackers know it. No real choice.


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