# Spreading Branch



## jfarnsworth (Jul 7, 2002)

For my curriculum this is the next technique in line. I don't know if every does this technique but next week we can put in Captured Twigs. O.K., Same as always what's everyone's likes or dislikes about this technique. Is there some other tech.'s you like to graph into? I have some different endings I like to put on the end of this technique. 
Salute,
Jason Farnsworth


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## Kempojujutsu (Jul 7, 2002)

Hey Jason, you might list what the technique is for us non-EPAK kempo guys. Or I can go some web page and try to figure it out. I hope the info for deflecting hammer was useful.
Bob


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## jfarnsworth (Jul 7, 2002)

I do have that technique typed out on my computer but it's not mine. I can not share it with the rest of you. I think it would break a personal trust with someone here. Most of the techniques I have on my computer have been written by me for me. They are all my terms so I can go back a year or so later to pick up where ever I left off or had written down. If someone wouldn't mind on this technique to share. I definatley found a lot of use on those throws that was real cool of you to help out.
Jason Farnsworth


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## Klondike93 (Jul 7, 2002)

1. Pin attacker's arm to your body with your left hand. Step back to 7:30 into a left forward bow as your right leg buckles his left leg as you do a right back hammerfist to the groin.

2. Deliver a right back-knuckle to attacker's face.

3. Grab attacker's head with both arms, right hand on top.

4. Pull attacker's head toward 1:30 into a right knee to the face.

5. Land forward into a right neutral bow with a right inward overhead elbow to upper spine or base of the skull. Left arm continues to press against his shoulder or head.



My problem is I seem to forget the back-knuckle all the time and I have trouble with the over head elbow,my arm gets stuck between me and the attacker.


:asian:


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## Kempojujutsu (Jul 7, 2002)

Is spreading Branches a EPAK tech or Tracy's Tech. Also What type of attack is it. The site I use to figure these techniques out doesn't have it listed. What belt rank do you find it. That maybe my problem.
Bob


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## Goldendragon7 (Jul 7, 2002)

(Rear High Bear Hug - - Arms Pinned)

a.  With your feet together shift your fight foot back to 8 o' clock (into a left forward bow)_ to buckle opponent's left knee{from inside out}.  Simultaneously have your left hand pin both of your opponent's arms as you execute a right hammerfist strike to opponent's groin.

b.  With your opponent reacting to your groin strike, thus releasing his grasp, have both of your arms grab back of opponent's neck and deliver a right knee kick to opponent's face as both of your arms pull down, therefore increasing the force of your knee kick.

c.  As you're planting your right foot forward toward 1 o' clock, have your left hand push down on opponent's head while your right arm circles counter clockwise.

d.  As you plant your right foot (employing marriage of gravity) and in coordination with the foot plant, conclude your counter clockwise motion by execution a right looping overhead downward elbow strike to upper spine of opponent.

Old Yellow Belt  # 5
:asian:


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## Kempojujutsu (Jul 8, 2002)

Does this technique go by another name. Is Crushing Hammer a different tech. How about Caputure Twigs different also. Can't find Spreading Branches on the site I use.
Bob


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## Goldendragon7 (Jul 8, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Kempojujutsu_*
> Does this technique go by another name. Is Crushing Hammer a different tech. How about Caputure Twigs different also. Can't find Spreading Branches on the site I use.
> *



Spreading Branch was a Yellow Belt Technique that was deleted from the normal charts years ago... yet some still teach the technique.

Crushing Hammer is a different S/D Technique with a similar attack.

Captured Twigs is the newer Technique tha replaced Spreading Branch.

:asian:


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## Kempojujutsu (Jul 8, 2002)

Thanks GD7 for the info.
Bob:asian:


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## Goldendragon7 (Jul 8, 2002)

:asian:


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## Klondike93 (Jul 8, 2002)

Do you know why Mr. Parker replaced it? Captured Twigs seems easier to do than Spreading Branch.


:asian:


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## Goldendragon7 (Jul 9, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Klondike93 _*
> Do you know why Mr. Parker replaced it? Captured Twigs seems easier to do than Spreading Branch.
> *



Right it is....... that's why!


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## kenpo3631 (Jul 9, 2002)

> quote: Originally posted by Klondike93...Do you know why Mr. Parker replaced it? Captured Twigs seems easier to do than Spreading Branch.





> quote: Originally posted by Goldendragon7...Right it is....... that's why!



It is easier, but I found it needs modification from the way it is written in the books. 

It calls for you to, 1.) Step out to 9 o'clock as you simultaneously trap you opponents hands with you left, while sinking into a horse stance and delivering a backhammerfist strike to the opponent's groin.

2.) Pivot to face 3 o'clock in a cat stance, left hand high to check the mid to high zone, and the right low, to check the low zone (also loads the elbow for the last srtike).

Here's where I see people having most of their problems I'd say about 90% of the time. 

The opponent in the first set of movements has his body shifted to the left as you step out to 9 o'clock. That should happen in all practicality because if he is commited to the attack he doesn't want to let you go. But that's not where the potential problem lies. As you begin to pivot the rotation of your shoulders causes the opponent to roll back and away to the left of you. This now puts him out of range for the foot stomp and/or the elbow strike. Your balance is also comprimised if the opposite happens and he collapses his weight on you while in the cat stance.

I know this is so because the point I have brought up was a question I had and it was demonstrated to me not only by my instructor but by other Kenpo Seniors as well. Mind you, I did the technique on them, then I applied the hold and had them do the technique on me. At 6' 5" tall, if I had a trouble getting the stomp never mind the elbow to work, what happens to all those of normal hieght?

In conclusion I am not saying Captured Twigs doesn't work, I just think it needs modification TO work. I prefer to stay with Spreading Branch for the rear bear hug attack. :asian:


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## Scott Bonner (Jul 9, 2002)

A variation on Captured Twigs I've been taught (if I can write it up clearly enough:

1) same as normal - step left to 9 into horse while pinning with left hand and doing back hammerfist to groin

2) immediately (to catch the bad guy's forward lurch) push-drag to the right (toward the bad guy) while doing right obscure upward elbow contouring up their torso and into thier jaw

3) disengage hold, step left foot to 12 and do right rear kick into thier stomach or groin or whatever.

4) land the right foot into crossover and cross out

I like it much better, though I never do it right.  I learned the other version (with the stomp) first, so by reflex I end up doing the stomp version and just tacking that back kick on the end.  It's easy to do, since the modified version is just the first version without the cat and stomp, and with an extra kick on the end.


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## kenpo3631 (Jul 24, 2002)

Excellent variation!

Looking at it from a laymens perspective though. If I bought the training manual for reference when I trained at home, would it be written like that? What if I bought Ed Parker Sr's from Ed Jr.'s website. Would it be written like that? 

I know I am being a nit-picker on this, but that is not the "ideal" base technique as outline by Mr. Parker. So herein lies the dilemma. Do we teach the technique as written or so that it actually works?

I bring up this point because you do not have to do this with _Spreading Branch_. So why was it taken off of the charts? Who knows. Why does the technique Circling the Storm *NOT*  follow Mr. Parker's weapons rule of divert, seize, control, disarm? yet that technique is still in the curriculum. Who knows.

Any thoughts?:asian:


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## Scott Bonner (Jul 24, 2002)

This brings us into the whole debate about whether Kenpo techniques are supposed to:

1)  be completely effective exactly as written in a life-or-death situation, or

2)  a learning tool to teach us the elements of self-defense more effectively, and if they are effective as written good but the defender needs to be able to adapt as well.

At this early point in my training, I go with 2, so I say keep the techs as written, teach them as written, talk about what works and what doesn't.  After all that, one can go into the optional ways to do a given tech, but don't leave the original ideas untaught.

One person's trash is another person's treasure.  That's true with techniques, too.  So, if it doesn't work for you it may still work for someone else, and so students should be taught the option and decide for themselves (or with their teacher).


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## Scott Bonner (Jul 24, 2002)

Besides that, the textbook version of Captured Twigs works just fine.  The only question is, is there something that works better?

I forget the quote about techs can be more effective and less effective but not ineffective, blah blah.


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## Goldendragon7 (Jul 24, 2002)

> _Originally posted by kenpo3631 _*
> Why does the technique Circling the Storm NOT  follow Mr. Parker's weapons rule of divert, seize, control, disarm? yet that technique is still in the curriculum. Who knows.
> *



that there is always an exception to the ideal rule..........

:asian:


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## kenpo3631 (Jul 24, 2002)

I beleive it was created when the system was broken down into the 24 technique series. More techniques were needed to fill the gaps. Circling the Storm was on of them. I beleive it was taken from the forms. It works the hinges and different checking principles and can be used on the front or rear of the opponent. 

Think about it...if you did that technique in the street against an experienced fighter he would eat you up.

:asian:


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## Goldendragon7 (Jul 24, 2002)

you underestimate me.


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## kenpo3631 (Jul 24, 2002)

> I beleive it was created when the system was broken down into the 24 technique series. More techniques were needed to fill the gaps. Circling the Storm was on of them. I beleive it was taken from the forms. It works the hinges and different checking principles and can be used on the front or rear of the opponent.



Can you validate this?


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## Goldendragon7 (Jul 24, 2002)




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## kenpo3631 (Jul 24, 2002)

It must be the Arizona heat...:rofl: 

Didn't you read the quote? or is the only explanation for that technique NOT following the weapons rule chocked up to the "Exception Rule"?


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## Goldendragon7 (Jul 24, 2002)

to my knowledge..... I'm not sure where the additional techniques came from "exactly" but I do know that Ed Parker would not insert anything that he didn't want.  

As to the specifics of the technique yes there is always a possibility for a change of rules...........

As an example............ in the Yellow Belt we have a initial saying that goes....... "Deflection then inflection of pain" don't we.

Well in the advanced phase that is changed to .... "Deflection "with" inflection of pain"

So yes there is always exceptions to the rules sooner or later..... maybe you haven't went over some of these yet....... I don't know.

:asian:


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## rmcrobertson (Jul 25, 2002)

In my little chunk o' kenpo, Spreading Branches was removed--perhaps because of the toll it levied on white belts.

However, it survives, virtually unchanged, embedded in a two-man technique, "Reprimanding the Bears."


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## kenpo3631 (Jul 25, 2002)

> Spreading Branches was removed--perhaps because of the toll it levied on white belts.



What toll? Spreading Branch was taken from Reprimanding the Bears, rather than the reverse. Remember yellow belt was created last.

Let's get back to the toll... What kind of toll are you talking about? I found that my students have an _easier_ time doing Spreading Branch than they do Captured Twigs!

Can you clarify for me what toll you are talking about?:asian:


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## Klondike93 (Jul 25, 2002)

I have done them both and I found it harder to do Spreading Branch than Captured Twigs. Personaly I think both should be taught at some time, they both have uses.

:asian:


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## kenpo3631 (Jul 25, 2002)

What did you find hard about the technique?

I find that with beginners that they are "afraid" to move their training partner in fear of hurting them. Also they are leary of their physical control with the knee shot. Sometimes its just a break in the motion that throws them off. 

Did you experience any of the above?:asian:


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## Klondike93 (Jul 25, 2002)

The only trouble I've had with Spreading Branch is the right overhead elbow at the end. My right arm usually gets trapped with the attackers left arm and I find it hard to get my arm out.

I've never had any trouble with Captured Twigs, it's a pretty easy one to get.



:asian:


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## kenpo3631 (Jul 25, 2002)

> The only trouble I've had with Spreading Branch is the right overhead elbow at the end. My right arm usually gets trapped with the attackers left arm and I find it hard to get my arm out.



Did Mr. Scornavacco go over with you anyways to fix that hiccup with the elbow? It's usually just a timing thing.

Does he still teach Captured Twigs?


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## Klondike93 (Jul 25, 2002)

> _Originally posted by kenpo3631 _
> 
> *
> 
> ...



He's been trying to get it through my noggin, but as you said it is a timing thing. I just need to practice it more. 

No he doesn't teach Captured Twigs, at least it's not in his curriculum, but he's said if you want to learn he'll teach it to you. I learned it from my first kenpo instructor many years ago.


:asian:


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## rmcrobertson (Jul 26, 2002)

Fair enough about the sequence of events, but I'd be interested to see your authority for it--just so I'll know which came first. 

Generally speaking, I guess it seems to me unwise to teach beginners techniques that end with elbows to the back of the neck, and I agree it's hard to get that elbow out of there.


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## kenpo3631 (Jul 26, 2002)

> Fair enough about the sequence of events, but I'd be interested to see your authority for it--just so I'll know which came first.



Authority? Like who told me about which technique came first?

If that is your question then it was Mr. Planas, Wedlake, and Trejo.


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## Doc (Sep 1, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Klondike93 _
> 
> *1. Pin attacker's arm to your body with your left hand. Step back to 7:30 into a left forward bow as your right leg buckles his left leg as you do a right back hammerfist to the groin.
> 
> ...



From  my experience, if someone really grabs you number one will not be possible. One of the reasons this technique idea was dropped from the yellow belt list.


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