# backknuckles



## kevin kilroe (Nov 2, 2004)

If a punch is defined as hitting with the front of the first two knuckles then why is a stiff arm lifting backkknuckle and a thrusting vertical backknuckle categorized as punches when in both cases you are not hitting with the front of the first two knuckles?

Respectfully,

Kevin Kilroe


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## Touch Of Death (Nov 2, 2004)

I wouldn't define the punch by the weapon used, I would define the punch by its other components such as method of execution and the extending of the arm from short to long at velocity greater than a push. That way even an heel palm strike gets classified as either a punch or a push.... anyways, your premise is flawed in that you are breaking the rules it sets in your basic vernacular. The simple answer is to lose that little rule, do some studies on punching and come up with a new premise. :supcool: 
Sean


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## kenpoworks (Nov 2, 2004)

Why not call it by its other name a "Back fist", that would seem to fulfil the criteria , o.k. its too easy, I know.
Respectfully
Richi


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## TigerWoman (Nov 2, 2004)

That was good. Back fist - that's what its known by.  Also thrusting verticle backknuckle, alot of descriptive words for uppercut???  Alll these moves have a one word name.  The same for a "hook" too.  TW


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## Gary Crawford (Nov 2, 2004)

"Backknuckle" is a Kenpo term.When I changed to jkd,my backfist(I like that term better) was one of the first things that improved drastically.It was no longer stiff,very relaxed and much faster.


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## Touch Of Death (Nov 2, 2004)

Gary Crawford said:
			
		

> "Backknuckle" is a Kenpo term.When I changed to jkd,my backfist(I like that term better) was one of the first things that improved drastically.It was no longer stiff,very relaxed and much faster.


Wait a second. Whats the difference? The only way to improve the backknuckle is to graft into a thrust, which most kenpoists learn sooner or later. Its not as if we are taught to be stiff and tense... Hook me up brother. :ultracool 
Sean


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## Gary Crawford (Nov 2, 2004)

Touch'O'Death said:
			
		

> Wait a second. Whats the difference? The only way to improve the backknuckle is to graft into a thrust, which most kenpoists learn sooner or later. Its not as if we are taught to be stiff and tense... Hook me up brother. :ultracool
> Sean


I'd rather show you,I didn't think I was slow or stiff before either,but I now know I was


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## Touch Of Death (Nov 2, 2004)

Alas, I cannot see you, could you describe the path of action?
Sean


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## Doc (Nov 3, 2004)

kevin kilroe said:
			
		

> If a punch is defined as hitting with the front of the first two knuckles then why is a stiff arm lifting backkknuckle and a thrusting vertical backknuckle categorized as punches when in both cases you are not hitting with the front of the first two knuckles?
> 
> Respectfully,
> 
> Kevin Kilroe



"Punching" is a rather universal term used beyond kick punch arts that essentially means to strike with the front of the knuckles, utilizing a specific arm and shoulder action to initiate the movement. "Punching" is a generic term with a general universal understanding of its action.

The other terms you mention are specific to particular martial disciplines or styles that have their own terminology and manner of expressing and defining what they do. They may vary from style to style, system to system even when performed exactly the same. ToMAYto - ToMato.


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## 8253 (Nov 4, 2004)

is a backknuckle a backfist?


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## Mark Weiser (Nov 4, 2004)

A good way to think about this is if you take your fingers and curl them up to make a fist no matter which direction you employ the natural weapon it is a fist. It is not so much if it is a fist but the real question is the deployment or direction of the natural weapon. The idea of changing from circular to linear movement is a good topic for discussion glad to see it.


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## Touch Of Death (Nov 4, 2004)

I feel there are two possible weapons available. If you accept thrust as a master key to emptyhanded fighting your back knuckels are going to cut a very sharp angle to the point of being a very liniar strike , where contact is made just to the back of the rams horns before full pentetration. A spinning back fist for intstance would compose of the entire back of your fist, and your backup mass a balled up fist or fist in glove. The back up mass for a backnuckle could concievably be your entire body... in a launch.
Sean


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## GAB (Nov 7, 2004)

Touch'O'Death said:
			
		

> I feel there are two possible weapons available. If you accept thrust as a master key to emptyhanded fighting your back knuckels are going to cut a very sharp angle to the point of being a very liniar strike , where contact is made just to the back of the rams horns before full pentetration. A spinning back fist for intstance would compose of the entire back of your fist, and your backup mass a balled up fist or fist in glove. The back up mass for a backnuckle could concievably be your entire body... in a launch.
> Sean


Hi, Sounds like 'chicken soup' main ingredient, the other stuff supports it. 

You can tell when someone uses gloves or padding, when not using them the punch's change very quickly or else we are talking, broken...

Regards, Gary


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## GAB (Nov 7, 2004)

Mark Weiser said:
			
		

> A good way to think about this is if you take your fingers and curl them up to make a fist no matter which direction you employ the natural weapon it is a fist. It is not so much if it is a fist but the real question is the deployment or direction of the natural weapon. The idea of changing from circular to linear movement is a good topic for discussion glad to see it.


Hi Mark, I did a  recon on your website, now I am circling back and doing a linear strike and communicate, I like it...

Regards, Gary


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