# Mom, why are we in a lock down?



## Lisa (Mar 13, 2007)

...is the text message I received from my youngest daughter, yesterday afternoon.

My heart skipped a beat, my stomach turned and I replied "It was a safety precaution used to ensure that the students in the school remained indoors and out of the way of any preceived danger.  Are you in a lock down?"

"Yup and I am scared....."

I called the school and was told that the school was in a lock down.  The police had issued the lock down because of a "police incident" happening in  or around the school grounds.

This was about 1/2 hour before school was to be dismissed.  Since my youngest and oldest daughters go to separate school but are located in the same block, I texted my oldest to find out that she too was in a lock down and when she called me, I could here the fear in her voice as well.  She was a little freaked out.

Luckily they were both released shortly thereafter.  When I talked to my girls, I asked why no one had ever explained what a school locked down was.  They both agreed that it was mentioned and practiced but when it happened in reality it was upsetting to say the least.

So, how many of you have discussed the possibility of school lock downs with your children?  How many of you are aware of the school lock down policies in your school districts? and how do we work with our schools and children to help alleviate the fear when it comes up?


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## terryl965 (Mar 13, 2007)

Lisa that is and ordeal for sure for your daughters, as me and my wife both are teachers well I'm an ex. we have decussed this with them atleast twice a year. This is a drill the schools need to take more serious in my opinion, we do not feel like anything will happen at our schools, well history has said different. This is a great subject matter and I wonder how come schools do not send home packages abpout this very issue.


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## Kreth (Mar 13, 2007)

This happened at a local school a few weeks ago after a known sex offender was seen entering an apartment across the street. Full story here.


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## shesulsa (Mar 13, 2007)

My kids have been in a handful of lockdowns, each.  The first couple were scary, now they sometimes forget to even tell me they had one.  I regularly emphasize the need to follow procedure each time as though it were a real emergency, but to stay calm.

On 9/11, I went to the principal and asked about the emergency procedure and location to pick up the children and was surprised to find that approx. five elementary schools, two high schools and four middle schools in the area all went to one nearby stadium.  There were no organized means for distribution of children for that location, just show up and hopefully they can locate your child by use of radio communication.  Now it's a little more sophisticated, though the system depends upon student cooperation.

I remember having earthquake drills when I was in school.  Now they have shooting drills.

Lisa, I'm glad your girls are okay and the incident did not involve them or their friends.  Welcome to the 21st century.


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## kidswarrior (Mar 13, 2007)

As a teacher who has spent time in some of the rougher areas, this is not uncommon. If any type of crime happens in the vicinity of the school and the bad guy(s)'s on the loose, the police will do this. I've never seen anything come of it, except the police are free to do their job and all the kids go home safely.

It _*is*_ unsettling for kids and staff, but better than releasing hundreds or thousands of kids into a situation where a lunatic may be trying to evade LEO, and who could mix with a group of children as a great cover.

As far as not knowing what's going on (my biggest complaint when trying to explain to kids why we're locked into a room after hours), LEO can't compromise their manhunt or investigation of an active crime, so they _have_ to keep us in the dark.

It's a bad situation, but I hope this helps a little.


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## kidswarrior (Mar 13, 2007)

shesulsa said:


> I remember having earthquake drills when I was in school. Now they have shooting drills.
> 
> Lisa, I'm glad your girls are okay and the incident did not involve them or their friends. Welcome to the 21st century.


 
Amen to that.


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## Ceicei (Mar 13, 2007)

My son's junior high school and a nearby elementary school were put in lock down last fall because of a report of a sighting of a rifle in the neighborhood.  The school was in lock down for quite a while (practically all morning) with the SWAT team on standby and police searching the neighborhood as well as the school (in case the unknown person with the rifle might have gone to the junior school).  

The lockdown started shortly after school began (report came in around 7:30 ish, but the school officials and the police were trying to decide whether this warranted a lock down).  Half of the buses arrived during this time and dropped the students off, and by the time the school/police authorized the lockdown, the second half of the buses were then diverted to the high school.  The lockdown didn't end until three and a half hours later.

This is not the first time lockdowns happened, but this one is a bit more dramatic locally as SWAT teams usually aren't called in.

My son was fine with the lockdown once he saw the heavy police presence.  He and several classmates were kind of bored being trapped in his math class for several hours, but he did say it was kind of cool to watch the police and some SWAT checking the hallways all dressed up in battle gear (flak vests and rifles).  

The only negative about all this (my son explained) was was that when the school was initially put under lockdown (students were told over the PA system to remain in the classrooms with doors closed and those who were out in the hallways were to go to the auditorium immediately).  They were not told the reason of the lockdown.  That caused a lot of anxiety and confusion.  The only reason these students found out about the purpose for the lockdown was when they called on cell phones (which by the way aren't allowed in schools) to their parents and were told the news as reported from outside.  The school finally announced to the students the purpose about an hour later after lockdown (to dispel rumors which were already going on).  

There were students who were very shaken up about this experience and once the lockdown ended three and a half hours later, were allowed to leave one by one with a parent who desired to take them home early.  Parents had to go through the heavily guarded entrance, show their id, sign papers who they desired to check out, and the child escorted to the parents with a teacher, then allowed to leave.  My son did ask to leave early as this was on his mind and he couldn't focus on school, especially when some students around him were being very emotional.

This incident happened on Friday, the day before the duck hunting season started on Saturday.  The person with the rifle, realizing the cause of the neighborhood anxiety, came forward later that morning to explain he was carrying his rifle in a sock down the street to his neighbor's house in preparation for the hunting season.  

It is not illegal to carry a long gun covered with a sock on the shoulder, nor is it really that unusual to have people openly prepare for hunting (after all, this is a State where hunting is a big tradition).

Some people blamed this on over-reaction, others said this is just a byproduct of a time when people worried about school-shootings and wanted to be on the safe side.  Others said it is an ignorance of the local traditions (such as awareness of hunting seasons and the customs of people living there).  Nevertheless, no one complained about having the police and the SWAT team responding so quickly.

This did generate a lot of discussion within families and the community the pros and cons.  Overall, the incident was handled well (at least by the police/SWAT team), but the school officials were asked to be more forthcoming with the information given to the students.  Some said that the information given earlier at the beginning would have been more helpful rather than the confusion with uncertainty of what was going on.  Others said that the information (to students) would have caused more panic and better off withheld.

- Ceicei


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## kidswarrior (Mar 13, 2007)

Ceicei said:


> the school officials were asked to be more forthcoming with the information given to the students. Some said that the information given earlier at the beginning would have been more helpful rather than the confusion with uncertainty of what was going on. Others said that the information (to students) would have caused more panic and better off withheld.
> 
> - Ceicei


 
Glad it turned out OK for your kids and you, Ceicei, and all the others involved (And for Lisa yesterday). In this case, as someone who is locked down with the kids during these things, I would say a little more info might have been nice. The situation Ceicei cited didn't involve actual gunfire or a known crime of any kind (local robbery,etc.--all of which I've experienced, too :uhyeah, but just a 'sighting'. In my opinion, the kids could have been told that info without undue stress, and actually might have relieved some of the tension while they waited in cramped quarters. Also would have known what the SWAT officers were looking for, making it all the more cool to watch them at work. :ultracool But that's just IMHO.


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## Lisa (Mar 13, 2007)

Ceicei said:


> My son's junior high school and a nearby elementary school were put in lock down last fall because of a report of a sighting of a rifle in the neighborhood.  The school was in lock down for quite a while (practically all morning) with the SWAT team on standby and police searching the neighborhood as well as the school (in case the unknown person with the rifle might have gone to the junior school).
> 
> The lockdown started shortly after school began (report came in around 7:30 ish, but the school officials and the police were trying to decide whether this warranted a lock down).  Half of the buses arrived during this time and dropped the students off, and by the time the school/police authorized the lockdown, the second half of the buses were then diverted to the high school.  The lockdown didn't end until three and a half hours later.
> 
> ...



Excellent response Ceicei and thank you for sharing it.  I bolded part of it because I wanted to expound on it a little more.  NOTHING was said to my daughters as to "why" the lock down occurred, only that they were not allowed to leave and to stay in the class.  Now, I am not advocating telling them that there is a mad man in your school and scaring them.  I am saying that explaining to them that the threat was OUTSIDE the school would have perhaps alleviated some of the anxiety.  For all my daughter knew, someone was inside and dangerous.  It wasn't until I phoned the office, that I could text her back and tell her that there was no one in the school and to sit tight and everything would be okay.

There is suppose to be a note coming home today.  It will be interesting to see what it says.  I am expecting a blanket "police situation" response from the school.  They probably can't go into any more detail then that.  I would also like to say that I am pleased with the schools concern for my daughters' safety and their compliance with the lock down orders from the police.  I would rather they be overly cautious.


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## MJS (Mar 13, 2007)

This has happened a few times in the city in which I work, as well as recently in another of the larger cities.  One group of kids were chasing another group through the streets.  In addition to being chased, they were also being shot at.  A teacher at a nearby elementary school saw this, and brought the group that was being chased inside.  The other kids were not caught as of yet.  

Needless to say, that school was in lockdown for quite a while, while the city and state police did a search of the bldg as well as surrounding areas.  While the teacher was praised for what she did, there was also negative comments.  This teacher did not know if the kids that were being chased had weapons as well.  Now, in this case they did not, but if they had them, now the potential for a hostage situation was pretty good.

Between bomb scares, and people making threats to others at school, its really a shame things have to come to this.

Mike


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## Andrew Green (Mar 13, 2007)

Lisa said:


> NOTHING was said to my daughters as to "why" the lock down occurred, only that they were not allowed to leave and to stay in the class.




I think that is the problem, people should not be detained, even for there own safety, without being given a reason.  And you should also not detain peoples kids, without giving them a reason.

Even a simple "The police are dealing with a issue in the neighborhood and have requested we go to a temporary lockdown as a precaution until they are finished" would have been good.


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## Kacey (Mar 13, 2007)

We had a lockdown at my middle school a few weeks ago, caused by a phone call to the local PD that a woman was walking around the area holding a gun to her head.  We have 3 levels of lockdown - this was the lowest, with the outside doors locked, the kids in mobile classrooms kept in the main building, no PE classes outside, etc.  This occurred as kids were arriving in the morning; teachers and administrators were outside sending them in as they arrived.  The principal came on the intercom after school started, explaining that there was police activity in the area as the cause of the lockdown - no details were given beyond that.  A letter was sent home that day (which is our standard practice) explaining that a police situation had occurred, again, without details.

I agree that _some_ information needs to go out _immediately_ - the details may not, for a variety of reasons, but _something_ needs to be said.


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## kidswarrior (Mar 13, 2007)

Lisa said:


> Excellent response Ceicei and thank you for sharing it. I bolded part of it because I wanted to expound on it a little more. NOTHING was said to my daughters as to "why" the lock down occurred, only that they were not allowed to leave and to stay in the class. Now, I am not advocating telling them that there is a mad man in your school and scaring them. I am saying that explaining to them that the threat was OUTSIDE the school would have perhaps alleviated some of the anxiety. For all my daughter knew, someone was inside and dangerous. It wasn't until I phoned the office, that I could text her back and tell her that there was no one in the school and to sit tight and everything would be okay.


 
Lisa, I agree with your concern over the lack of communication. I've heard too many times of parents and students having to text each other to get outside news inside to the people actually affected by it. As you said, a little info can go a long way.


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## Lisa (Mar 13, 2007)

Kacey said:


> We had a lockdown at my middle school a few weeks ago, caused by a phone call to the local PD that a woman was walking around the area holding a gun to her head.  We have 3 levels of lockdown - this was the lowest, with the outside doors locked, the kids in mobile classrooms kept in the main building, no PE classes outside, etc.  This occurred as kids were arriving in the morning; teachers and administrators were outside sending them in as they arrived.  The principal came on the intercom after school started, explaining that there was police activity in the area as the cause of the lockdown - no details were given beyond that.  A letter was sent home that day (which is our standard practice) explaining that a police situation had occurred, again, without details.
> 
> * I agree that some information needs to go out immediately - the details may not, for a variety of reasons, but something needs to be said.*



bolded for my reference...

I agree with this wholeheartedly.  My daughter was told she shouldn't have texted me about the situation.  It was 1/2 hour before school was to be let out and I was going to be heading to the school to pick her up.  I can only imagine the confusion on the part of the parents as they are waiting outside the school for their children and they aren't coming out.  Some probably tried to get into the school.  It would alarm me if I had been sitting outside school and they weren't being dismissed.  Lack of information makes the mind go crazy with worry.  I am glad my daughter texted me and allowed me the opportunity to find out what was going on and help calm her fears as well.


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## kidswarrior (Mar 13, 2007)

Kacey said:


> I agree that _some_ information needs to go out _immediately_ - the details may not, for a variety of reasons, but _something_ needs to be said.


 
Yes, well said, Kacey.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Mar 13, 2007)

Andrew Green said:


> I think that is the problem, people should not be detained, even for there own safety, without being given a reason. And you should also not detain peoples kids, without giving them a reason.
> 
> Even a simple "The police are dealing with a issue in the neighborhood and have requested we go to a temporary lockdown as a precaution until they are finished" would have been good.


 
Communication in this type of matter is essential.  I agree with the above that people, children, etc should not be detained without being given a reason.  A simple statement like Andrew's above would go along way to alleviate fears and keep everyone up to date.  

Having said that I have been in several fluid situations like this and it is not always easy to communicate right as the situation is unfolding.  Sometimes we must just trust the Police, SWAT, School Administration, teachers, etc to do their job and inform us when the time is appropriate.  Even if that is a real pain.


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## KeeblerElf (Mar 13, 2007)

It's interesting that schools don't give the information. Lockdowns started when I was in Junior high and continued through high school. Although information was never given at the moment we always found out exactly why we were in lockdown within five minutes of being in the classroom. All we would know in the beginning was that we were in a "code red" and no one ever said anything just went to the nearest classroom. The teachers would check their email where there would be a note explaining the situation, the email was also sent to any parents that were on the schools email list.
This always helped us understand how serious the situation was.

This really helped when there was an actual threat on the school and it was in lockdown for a full day and continued under lockdown for a second day. And for a week no one was allowed backpacks, purses, or any clothing or things that could conceal a weapon or explosives. The school was very forward with what the problem was and everyone was very compliant, although not much schoolwork was completed for a week.


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## bluemtn (Mar 13, 2007)

Wow.  I never thought of it until I just read this.  I've had lockdown drills while in high school, but no one ever gave it much thought-  I guess location?  A lot of people in this area still don't lock their car doors.  I guess it ranks right along with tornado drills, earthquake drills, fire drills, etc.  I don't know that there really is any kind of prepping a student for one, emotionally.  I remember when I first heard a tornado siren.  I was 13 and all by myself, but everything came to me all at once.  Grab flashlight and dog, head for center of house...  It wasn't the first time I heard one, but it sure did seem like it.  That said, I think the drill just becomes engrained through good practice.


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## Carol (Mar 13, 2007)

tkdgirl said:


> Wow.  I never thought of it until I just read this.  I've had lockdown drills while in high school, but no one ever gave it much thought-  I guess location?  A lot of people in this area still don't lock their car doors.



It's not necessarily location.  I'm working right now in a similar area where people don't always lock there car doors and there is very little crime.  However, a few months ago a small private high school in the area went in to lockdown mode.  I know this because a colleague sent out an e-mail to the company when he, like Lisa, got a text message from one of his daughters saying that the school was in lockdown.   It can happen anywhere, anytime.


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## jks9199 (Mar 13, 2007)

Brian R. VanCise said:


> Having said that I have been in several fluid situations like this and it is not always easy to communicate right as the situation is unfolding. Sometimes we must just trust the Police, SWAT, School Administration, teachers, etc to do their job and inform us when the time is appropriate. Even if that is a real pain.


 
Communication is often all but impossible between the people trying to handle an incident and others affected by it.  There's just a whole lot going on, and often, all that the police department has done is notify the school authority (possibly not even the individual school!) about "an incident."  The school authorities then decide what steps to take.

That said -- when possible and tactically appropriate, it's absolutely proper that the school know at least the broad scope of what's going on, and relay that information in an age appropriate manner to students and parents promptly.  I'm not certain that I consider a note sent home the next day "promptly", though I would suspect that anything that actually locked down a school probably was worth at least a comment on the evening news!  (Hey... Some of the best "intelligence sources" out there are reporters simply covering the events!)


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## kidswarrior (Mar 13, 2007)

jks9199 said:


> Communication is often all but impossible between the people trying to handle an incident and others affected by it.  There's just a whole lot going on, and often, all that the police department has done is notify the school authority (possibly not even the individual school!) about "an incident."  The school authorities then decide what steps to take.
> 
> That said -- when possible and tactically appropriate, it's absolutely proper that the school know at least the broad scope of what's going on, and relay that information in an age appropriate manner to students and parents promptly.



You've obviously been there, done that. Very articulate and logical take on this type situation.

I remember awhile back getting the call to lock myself and the kids in our alt ed classroom. Info as you said was sketchy at first. Then, as we watched out front windows, saw SWAT--rifles in hand--filing along the ridgeline of the roof of an apartment building across the street. Obviously at that moment the entire police dept. was involved at some level and too busy to communciate further with the school. Turned out later that some knucklehead had cut a hole in the roof of a check cashing outlet around the corner and, caught in the act, refused to give up without a fight. (He later did, no one hurt, good ending). We got the all clear in a timely manner, and details later.


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## Jonathan Randall (Mar 13, 2007)

*Oh, man, Lisa! I am SO glad your children are all right!*  

Actually, more schools are going into "lockdown" type situations as neighborhoods and police are taking no chances anymore on crime spilling over into the schoolyard. Example; when I was in school, we were only locked down only once (they didn't call it that then) and that was when a fugitive was thought to have entered school grounds fleeing from a robbery (he hadn't). By the time my younger sister was in High School, they would keep children confined in classrooms, the library or the cafeteria even for an incident blocks away. Times have changed since you and I were kids!

OH, forgot to mention, in Florida once, we were confined to our elementary classroom when an alligator came into the yard! He was only at the far end (near the canal) and posed no real threat as it was a part of the yard out of bounds, but it was still exciting for us second graders.


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## kidswarrior (Mar 14, 2007)

Jonathan Randall said:


> OH, forgot to mention, in Florida once, we were confined to our elementary classroom when an alligator came into the yard! He was only at the far end (near the canal) and posed no real threat as it was a part of the yard out of bounds, but it was still exciting for us second graders.



:boing1:        :boing2:          :boing1:


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## Lisa (Mar 14, 2007)

jks9199 said:


> Communication is often all but impossible between the people trying to handle an incident and others affected by it.  There's just a whole lot going on, and often, all that the police department has done is notify the school authority (possibly not even the individual school!) about "an incident."  The school authorities then decide what steps to take.



You are very right about what you wrote above.  The police in a time of a serious incident aren't worried about long explanations, they are worried about keeping people safe.



> That said -- when possible and tactically appropriate, it's absolutely proper that the school know at least the broad scope of what's going on, and relay that information in an age appropriate manner to students and parents promptly.  I'm not certain that I consider a note sent home the next day "promptly", though I would suspect that anything that actually locked down a school probably was worth at least a comment on the evening news!  (Hey... Some of the best "intelligence sources" out there are reporters simply covering the events!)



Since the incident occured at the end of the school day, there truly wasn't enough time to get a note created and sent home, especially when the school wasn't aware of the exact cause itself.

A note did get sent home yesterday, of course both my children left it in their lockers! :shrug:

They told me that there was really no explanation as of yet, just that the police called for the lock down.

Now, if ya want rumors, well I have PLENTY! LOL!  Varying from a sniper on the highschool rooftop, the middle school rooftop, and the elementary school roof top.  It depends who you talk to!

I will let you all know anything more when I hear it.


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## shesulsa (Mar 14, 2007)

I spoke with my daughter about the lockdowns at her school and the level of info they're given and she also expressed frustration.  She (13 going on 30) feels that she should have a general idea as to the happenings so she can make her own decision; i.e. if nuclear warfare has broken out, she wants to find her family ... if there's a sniper on the rooftop she knows staying put is her best bet ... etcetera.

I dunno, after that explanation, I think I'd rather her not know as she might make a decision in a real situation which could be fatal to her.

:idunno:

But I do think parents should be given the news.


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## CuongNhuka (Mar 14, 2007)

Our school doesn't really have a lockdown procedure. According to the school code (or something) we're supposed to go to the catacombs (designed to be a shelter against the Ruskys). In reality, we just don't leave class until they say otherwise. And lock the doors. They never tell us why, and aren't supposed to. Why is beyond me and all forms of logical reason.


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## Tez3 (Mar 14, 2007)

Good grief! For once I was left (almost) speechless! I have never heard of lockdown in a school! Here it is entirely a thing that happens in prisons. My children are well beyond school age but when I take the children's MA class tomorrow I shall elicit some opinions from parents and post them up. I think I'm totally horrified but I do wonder what procedures we have in place apart from fire practices.


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## Eternal Beginner (Mar 14, 2007)

My daughter had a scheduled lockdown drill at school today and one of the things that was stressed is that they did not want kids calling out of the school during a lockdown.  For two reasons, A) they are supposed to stay absolutely quiet B) if there was a real situation they didn't want parents/guardians flocking to the school and maybe involving more people in a dangerous situation.

From what I gathered from the info that was sent home on the lockdown is that, if possible, the children will be notified what the danger is if they don't think it will cause mass hysteria and some children trying to escape or if they actually have verifiable, reliable information from a reputable source such as the police.  It has happened in my son's school where there was a lockdown and some kids called out, got parents worried, parents called news sources and the school phone lines got tied up with calls.  Turned out it was a lockdown drill and the kids that called out hadn't  were not there the day it was announced and didn't realise it was a drill.

Scary that kids have to worry about lockdowns, but I would rather they be prepared than at risk if a situation develops.  From my understanding, a lot of these issues and the need for "lockdowns" is parent custody issues.  They need to lock down schools if a "prohibited" parent is trying to access a student and the easiest way to make sure the one student is safe is if they can easily and quickly ascertain where said student is and make sure that they can control a situation before it escalates.


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## Kacey (Mar 14, 2007)

Eternal Beginner said:


> My daughter had a scheduled lockdown drill at school today and one of the things that was stressed is that they did not want kids calling out of the school during a lockdown.  For two reasons, A) they are supposed to stay absolutely quiet B) if there was a real situation they didn't want parents/guardians flocking to the school and maybe involving more people in a dangerous situation.



These are two very good points.  To address B first:  we had a bomb scare at our middle school a couple of years ago (someone called the registrar and claimed there was a bomb in the school - nothing was ever found, thankfully).  The call came in before school started, so as kids arrived, we put them on the track (far enough from the building, and a contained area, because the track is around the football field; the whole area is fenced).  So many kids called their parents - and so quickly - that the second emergency squad called in to investigate (to help the first squad) couldn't get into the parking lot... and since we couldn't get into the building to check who had the right to pick kids up, we couldn't let them leave anyway.  Had there really been a bomb, the parents would have been the most likely to be injured, as the parking lot is much closer to the school than the track.

Then to address A - if there is an intruder in the school, the interior doors are locked, the kids are moved to a wall not visible from the door (all doors have windows), and kept as silent as possible.  We have had full lockdown drills, in which the SWAT team moves through the building, checking doors to make sure they're locked, calling through the door that everything is clear and we should come out (exiting lockdown requires a key phrase be broadcast over the school intercom), etc.  In a real emergency, the last thing you want is a cell phone to ring - in fact, turning off all cell phones (or at least the ring) was recently added to the list of actions to take in a lockdown.  The idea is to make it difficult to tell which rooms actually have kids and staff in them - hard to do when someone's cell phone suddenly rings, or they start talking.


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## Jonathan Randall (Mar 14, 2007)

Kacey said:


> These are two very good points. To address B first: we had a bomb scare at our middle school a couple of years ago (someone called the registrar and claimed there was a bomb in the school - nothing was ever found, thankfully). The call came in before school started, so as kids arrived, we put them on the track (far enough from the building, and a contained area, because the track is around the football field; the whole area is fenced). So many kids called their parents - and so quickly - that the second emergency squad called in to investigate (to help the first squad) couldn't get into the parking lot... and since we couldn't get into the building to check who had the right to pick kids up, we couldn't let them leave anyway. Had there really been a bomb, the parents would have been the most likely to be injured, as the parking lot is much closer to the school than the track.


 
I understand your point and it is definitely a valid one. OTOH, I can't really blame Lisa's daughter for text messaging her mother in this case. Remember, Canada doesn't have near the level of school violence that we have in the U.S. and it probably wasn't adequately reinforced with the children that they were not to use their cells.


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## Carol (Mar 14, 2007)

And the lockdown here, the child text messaged her dad.

I can understand needing to be quiet but I have no issues with a child text-messaging their parents telling them they are in a lockdown.


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## Kacey (Mar 15, 2007)

Jonathan Randall said:


> I understand your point and it is definitely a valid one. OTOH, I can't really blame Lisa's daughter for text messaging her mother in this case. Remember, Canada doesn't have near the level of school violence that we have in the U.S. and it probably wasn't adequately reinforced with the children that they were not to use their cells.



True... although I still stand by my original reason.  Parents flocking to the school could create a greater hazard than already exists - and while I understand parents being concerned, if you were the child, how would you feel if your text message drew your parent into danger, however unintentionally?



Carol Kaur said:


> And the lockdown here, the child text messaged her dad.
> 
> I can understand needing to be quiet but I have no issues with a child text-messaging their parents telling them they are in a lockdown.



See above - I do have a concern with it, because it can (and in my experience, has) pull parents into a potential danger they need not be exposed to, and thereby increase the potential risk(s) to the students.


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## shesulsa (Mar 15, 2007)

I think it's understandable that a girl who has never been in a lockdown would text her parents if she never even knew what a lockdown was.

I'm amazed that the district did not brief the children on the first day of school what a lockdown was, what the rules were, why, etcetera.


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## Jonathan Randall (Mar 15, 2007)

shesulsa said:


> I think it's understandable that a girl who has never been in a lockdown would text her parents if she never even knew what a lockdown was.
> 
> I'm amazed that the district did not brief the children on the first day of school what a lockdown was, what the rules were, why, etcetera.


 

That's my take on the situation, as well. I do understand and respect Kacey's points.


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## Carol (Mar 15, 2007)

Jonathan Randall said:


> That's my take on the situation, as well. I do understand and respect Kacey's points.



Same here, and I respect that Kacey is a teacher and that she and her students live under the decisions that are made every day.

But, I have a serious issue with the concept.   

If I had kids, they would be my kids.  I would have a huge issue with my child being told not to tell their parents about something that is going on at the school, and I would have a equally huge issue with my district insisting that I can't be trusted with such information.  Thats just my thoughts though. :asian:


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## Lisa (Mar 15, 2007)

The lock down caused the other schools and school districts to do "lock down" practices with their students and I think that is a good idea.  I think, just as fire drills are practiced, so should lock down drills.  I just wish it wasn't after the fact.

As for my daughter text messaging me.  Yes, Kacey has very good points.  When my daughter told me about it I was suppose to be going to get her from school.  Instead I kept myself at home, out of harms way and more importantly, out of the police's way.  The police had more then enough to handle due to the fact that parents had already started to congregate around the school due to the fact that it was home time, not out of fear for their child.

The confusion for my daughter was they were told that they were in a lock down situation.  I believe she would have been more comfortable if they had explained that it was not an "inside" problem, but a problem in the neighbourhood.  See, she didn't understand that if it was in the school she would be sitting up against the wall in absolute silence.  Instead they tried to continue with their afternoon.  She just didn't know the difference between the two.


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## MJS (Mar 15, 2007)

Eternal Beginner said:


> My daughter had a scheduled lockdown drill at school today and one of the things that was stressed is that they did not want kids calling out of the school during a lockdown. For two reasons, A) they are supposed to stay absolutely quiet B) if there was a real situation they didn't want parents/guardians flocking to the school and maybe involving more people in a dangerous situation.
> 
> From what I gathered from the info that was sent home on the lockdown is that, if possible, the children will be notified what the danger is if they don't think it will cause mass hysteria and some children trying to escape or if they actually have verifiable, reliable information from a reputable source such as the police. It has happened in my son's school where there was a lockdown and some kids called out, got parents worried, parents called news sources and the school phone lines got tied up with calls. Turned out it was a lockdown drill and the kids that called out hadn't were not there the day it was announced and didn't realise it was a drill.
> 
> Scary that kids have to worry about lockdowns, but I would rather they be prepared than at risk if a situation develops. From my understanding, a lot of these issues and the need for "lockdowns" is parent custody issues. They need to lock down schools if a "prohibited" parent is trying to access a student and the easiest way to make sure the one student is safe is if they can easily and quickly ascertain where said student is and make sure that they can control a situation before it escalates.


 
IMO, I think that this is a great idea!  Much like a fire drill, it will hopefully prepare the students and staff for the procedure and hopefully things will run smooth in the event a real situation takes place.

Mike


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## Lisa (Mar 15, 2007)

MJS said:


> IMO, I think that this is a great idea!  Much like a fire drill, it will hopefully prepare the students and staff for the procedure and hopefully things will run smooth in the event a real situation takes place.
> 
> Mike



I agree that it is a great idea.  I just wish it would be a regular part of school not because it happened somewhere and they are all scrambling to make sure they have their bases covered.

Every year they do fire drills and bus evacuation procedures.  I think they need to add this one to the list and explain to the students the difference beween a class room lock down and a general lock down of the school.  At least by the time the kids are in middle school and above.


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## Jade Tigress (Mar 15, 2007)

Eternal Beginner said:


> My daughter had a scheduled lockdown drill at school today and one of the things that was stressed is that they did not want kids calling out of the school during a lockdown.



I agree and understand that making _calls_ in a situation like this would be a problem. However, when I read that Lisa's daughter _texted _her I thought "brilliant!" What a smart girl, keeping quiet yet contacting her mom for both her personal need in her fear, and to keep mom in the loop. I hope to God if my daughter is ever in that situation she will have the presence of mind to _text_ me. For herself and for me. Kudos to your daughter Lisa.


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## Kacey (Mar 15, 2007)

I will also add that we _do_ have lockdown drills, along with fire drills and tornado drills - so when we do go on lockdown, it's not completely foreign to the kids, which helps immensely.  These drills are district-wide (and, I assume, occur across the Denver Metro area; Columbine HS is only about 30 miles from here), and kids are as familiar with lockdown drills as they are with fire and tornado drills.  They know we (the teachers) will tell them what is going on as soon as we are informed - in the meantime, sit down against the wall and be quiet - the same rules they have for tornado drills, except we don't lock the door (although it is closed) and the lights stay on for tornado drills.

When we've had real lockdowns (usually Level 1 - the building is locked but things inside go on as usual - the full lockdown, Level 3, has never happened except in drills), an announcement is made about the cause as soon as it's over (sooner, in some cases, depending on the cause), and a letter goes home to the parents that night, and I think that that is very important.  If that's not happening in your school, then it's something the parents need to make known is a priority.


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## Lisa (Mar 15, 2007)

I just was on the phone with the school's guidance counsellor.  As it stands the school division has just finally adopted a "lock down" policy in the division and steps were being taken to go school to school and practice these lock down procedures with the kids.  My youngest daughter's school is scheduled for March 21/07.

I expressed my concerns with the lack of information given to the kids and also explained why my daughter felt the need to speak to me via text.  The guidance counsellor told me that it didn't surprise him at all that the children went to the parents via tex messaging considering they had never even heard of "lock down" procedures before that day.  He knew, of course, that children will contact those they love and trust to get the answers that they aren't getting from the school and that they now have policies and procedures to deal with those situations.  He said they already had to deal with them to some extent as the children remained in lock down after the bell had rang and parents, curious as to why their kids weren't coming out of the school began phoning and coming to the door.


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## shesulsa (Mar 15, 2007)

Lisa said:


> I just was on the phone with the school's guidance counsellor.  As it stands the school division has just finally adopted a "lock down" policy in the division and steps were being taken to go school to school and practice these lock down procedures with the kids.  My youngest daughter's school is scheduled for March 21/07.
> 
> I expressed my concerns with the lack of information given to the kids and also explained why my daughter felt the need to speak to me via text.  The guidance counsellor told me that it didn't surprise him at all that the children went to the parents via tex messaging considering they had never even heard of "lock down" procedures before that day.  He knew, of course, that children will contact those they love and trust to get the answers that they aren't getting from the school and that they now have policies and procedures to deal with those situations.  He said they already had to deal with them to some extent as the children remained in lock down after the bell had rang and parents, curious as to why their kids weren't coming out of the school began phoning and coming to the door.


Forgive me, I've been multi-tasking when reading this thread.

It makes sense that they took these measures in what sounds like a situation that could have turned disastrous without drill and I think it was a responsible decision for them to make, even if this had to go down without a drill.

So, again, please forgive the caffeine-free fog, and know I'm VERY glad everyone's all right, that your girls are no worse for the wear and that your school district has now officially implemented a tactic which is likely the best one to take in these kinds of circumstances.


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## Ceicei (Mar 15, 2007)

Another Utah lockdown in today's newspaper.  Below is an excerpt that caught my attention from the article:



> Jones' mother, Bobbi, said she learned about the incident when she picked her son up from school. She said she is grateful for the quick action taken by law enforcement and school officials but wishes something had been sent home with her son explaining what had happened.
> 
> "I wish there had been more information given to the parents about why there was a lockdown," Jones said. "It's kind of scary to have that happen."



Link to article:

http://www.deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,660203359,00.html

- Ceicei


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## Eternal Beginner (Mar 15, 2007)

shesulsa said:


> I think it's understandable that a girl who has never been in a lockdown would text her parents if she never even knew what a lockdown was.
> 
> I'm amazed that the district did not brief the children on the first day of school what a lockdown was, what the rules were, why, etcetera.


It surprises me as well because my daughter is in the same school division and the children are fully aware of what lockdown involves and practice drills.  I think the concern here is with administration of those particular schools, rather than individual children's reactions.

Information can calm a lot of fears.


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## Ceicei (Mar 15, 2007)

Thinking back to the lockdown my son was in, it would have been nearly impossible to prevent children/parents from contacting each other anyway.  This is human nature, a powerful need for loved ones to contact each other in times of stress.

The police knew that, so when they determined the lockdown would start, they had already set up a perimeter barrier around the schools stretching about a block or two away from each entrance onto the school grounds.  They knew the parents would come, so they were prepared.  No one is allowed to go through the barrier to the school, and conversely, no one allowed to leave the school buildings.  This perimeter is also to enable them to search the immediate areas right next to and within the school grounds.

This lockdown was well executed by the police/SWAT teams.  As had been often noted in this thread, it would have been great if  the school administration would have done more to notify the students and/or parents better.  The school administrators seem to worry more about the appropriateness of sharing information.

In spite of the reluctance of the schools to explain what was going on, the parents who were waiting at the perimeter got some of the information from the police manning the points as well as from the news media.  That was how the students were informed more of the details when they contacted their parents by cell phones (many via text messages).  

I will have to give kudos for the school to finally step up to say more about the situation after the first hour of the lockdown.  I guess the threat decreased by then and they felt reasonably safe to explain as well as to dispel rumors that were multiplying.

- Ceicei


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## Kreth (Mar 16, 2007)

Eternal Beginner said:


> It surprises me as well because my daughter is in the same school division and the children are fully aware of what lockdown involves and practice drills.  I think the concern here is with administration of those particular schools, rather than individual children's reactions.
> 
> Information can calm a lot of fears.


Was there a point to this other than sniping at the OP?


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## Lisa (Mar 16, 2007)

Eternal Beginner said:


> It surprises me as well because my daughter is in the same school division and the children are fully aware of what lockdown involves and practice drills.  I think the concern here is with administration of those particular schools, rather than individual children's reactions.
> 
> Information can calm a lot of fears.



It doesn't suprise me at all and it has nothing to do with the administration of the school.  It has to do with the fact that the school division has only just adopted this policy this year and is going to each school to help the administration of the school familiarize themselves with the policies.  As I said upthread, my daughter's school is scheduled for March 21st.  My older daughter informed me that this had been done at her school, only she was away at the time.  I was reassured by the guidance counsellor yesterday that they will be performing lock down drills from now on.

As for no note going home the afternoon of the incident.  It occurred at 2:50 pm and the children are usually out at 3:15.  They didn't get released until 3:35, in truth the school had no time to prep and distribute a response to the children.  They did, however, have one ready when they returned to school the next day and the administration stayed after school and spoke to parents on a one to one basis, giving them all the information they had, which, wasn't much.  According to the guidance councellor yesterday, they still don't know details and probably never will.


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## shesulsa (Mar 16, 2007)

Eternal Beginner said:


> It surprises me as well because my daughter is in the same school division and the children are fully aware of what lockdown involves and practice drills.  I think the concern here is with administration of those particular schools, rather than individual children's reactions.
> 
> Information can calm a lot of fears.


Oh, do you and Lisa know each other?


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## Eternal Beginner (Mar 16, 2007)

Kreth said:


> Was there a point to this other than sniping at the OP?


Sorry, don't know what you mean by "sniping at the OP"...

I was hoping to clarify that I wasn't faulting Lisa's kids for looking to their parent for answers - that is what most kids do.  What I was saying is that in my kids school, they are told not to and it seems for valid reasons.  If Lisa's kids are being kept in the dark, that is very scary and I think it should be changed...no "sniping" intended.

The school division has only adopted this policy so it is new and there are still some glitches.  My daughter was lucky that they have had previous preparation and my son is in a different division that has practiced lockdown drills in past years.  Lockdowns drills are important, just as important as fire evacuation drills and bus evacuation drill. My children have done for years but have never needed them thankfully, but I am glad they know what to do in case of emergency - same with lockdowns.


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## Jade Tigress (Mar 16, 2007)

Eternal Beginner said:


> I was hoping to clarify that I wasn't faulting Lisa's kids for looking to their parent for answers - that is what most kids do.What I was saying is that in my kids school, they are told not to and it seems for valid reasons.



I'm a bit confused by this. Are you saying your kids are taught at school not to seek their parents for answers? Personally, I would be very upset with any school district teaching my children not to come to me with their questions. If the school hasn't provided the information they need, it makes sense they would ask me for it instead. If the school has provided adequate information, then there would be no questions left. Seems logical to me.


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## jks9199 (Mar 16, 2007)

Jonathan Randall said:


> *
> Actually, more schools are going into "lockdown" type situations as neighborhoods and police are taking no chances anymore on crime spilling over into the schoolyard. Example; when I was in school, we were only locked down only once (they didn't call it that then) and that was when a fugitive was thought to have entered school grounds fleeing from a robbery (he hadn't). By the time my younger sister was in High School, they would keep children confined in classrooms, the library or the cafeteria even for an incident blocks away. Times have changed since you and I were kids!
> *


*

That's another good point; a lock down isn't always a response to a threat AT or TO the school.  There may be a police incident or other situation nearby, and keeping the kids inside is just a move to avoid tragic freak accidents or avoid adding one more level of chaos to an already chaotic situation.  Other times, lock downs are simply response to possibilities...  For example, a few years back, I spent several days guarding kids as they arrived and left school, and they weren't allowed out at all during the day when Mohammad and Malvo were running around the DC area.  (I also searched more white vans than I ever want to remember!) 

There might just have been a crash with a possible HAZMAT concern in the area, and until the risk is known and the wind direction is determined... keep the kids in school, in one place.  

Lock downs are, in other words, sometimes just people management tools.*


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## Lisa (Mar 16, 2007)

jks9199 said:


> There might just have been a crash with a possible HAZMAT concern in the area, and until the risk is known and the wind direction is determined... keep the kids in school, in one place.
> 
> Lock downs are, in other words, sometimes just people management tools.



This is also very true.  My husband works for he local electric company and he told me that his company can go to the police and ask for a lock down if there is an emergency hazzard in the area that needs to be dealt with and could be hazzardous to the kids.  Its part of crowd control, a downed hydro line is a great curiousity.


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## jks9199 (Mar 16, 2007)

Tez3 said:


> Good grief! For once I was left (almost) speechless! I have never heard of lockdown in a school! Here it is entirely a thing that happens in prisons. My children are well beyond school age but when I take the children's MA class tomorrow I shall elicit some opinions from parents and post them up. I think I'm totally horrified but I do wonder what procedures we have in place apart from fire practices.


A lockdown is just a procedure where kids are kept in the school during an incident.  They came about following the Columbine shooting, among other things; previously, they had just "been done" without any special name for the procedure.  Many schools have different levels of lockdown; at the bottom, outdoor activities are cancelled and classes that may be held in external classrooms or facilities (like the trailer classrooms many schools use when students exceed building) are squeezed inside.  At the highest level... NOBODY moves outside a classroom, and very possibly not even inside.  Students stay where they are when it starts, and they don't move until released.  A tornado alert or HAZMAT incident or bank robbery nearby might trigger the bottom level; an active-shooter situation (gunman in the school) or other serious, immediate threat to students within the school would result in the top.  I've also seen the top level used as the initial response to a bomb threat at the school; that way, you don't have kids moving around and possibly finding the bomb.


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## jks9199 (Mar 16, 2007)

Eternal Beginner said:


> Scary that kids have to worry about lockdowns, but I would rather they be prepared than at risk if a situation develops.  From my understanding, a lot of these issues and the need for "lockdowns" is parent custody issues.  They need to lock down schools if a "prohibited" parent is trying to access a student and the easiest way to make sure the one student is safe is if they can easily and quickly ascertain where said student is and make sure that they can control a situation before it escalates.



I've responded to a few of those.  The absolute last thing we want to have to deal with when we've already got one (or more) irate parent/guardian is lots more kids...  Try calming someone down while a small army of kids is being marched onto the bus, and they're wanting to know where THEIR child is!  Then there are the well meaning parents who try to "help"...

A few requests... If cops are there, and trying to work something out, don't stick your nose into it unless someone's bleeding to death and you're a doctor/nurse/EMT.  And even then... ASK FIRST.  (Unless, of course, you want to find yourself with an insider's view of a fire fight...)  Seriously, we may have info that you don't know, no matter how well you know Mrs. So&So or Mr. Such&such...

And forgive the cop who responds more than a little gruffly to any sort of "what's going? Can I help?" type crap... While it wasn't at a school, I once had a homeowner's association president walk up while I'm dealing with 3 people, in a foreign language, and trying to sort out where #4 got to, and why he vanished...  And the HOA president wanted to know what I was doing.  I ended up explaining a less than polite response to my sergeant and captain on that one...  He'd already called before I got done with the jerks!


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## jks9199 (Mar 16, 2007)

Carol Kaur said:


> And the lockdown here, the child text messaged her dad.
> 
> I can understand needing to be quiet but I have no issues with a child text-messaging their parents telling them they are in a lockdown.


I do...

I was going to hold off on this, but, if the lockdown is in response to a bomb threat...  We don't want extraneous radio frequency chatter (to include cell phones and car alarm buttons) going on.  We don't know what will trigger the bomb; many IEDs are triggered by a cell phone call.  Some triggers can go off at a strong enough radio signal nearby...  Which can kinda ruin someone's day if they're trying to safely remove the bomb.

(That's also why you see signs to turn off 2-way radios and cell phones in blasting zones...)


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## Andrew Green (Mar 16, 2007)

If that was the case, everyone would get instructions to turn off all cellphones and wireless devices immediately.  People have no control over incoming calls / messages.


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## Carol (Mar 16, 2007)

jks9199 said:


> I do...
> 
> I was going to hold off on this, but, if the lockdown is in response to a bomb threat...  We don't want extraneous radio frequency chatter (to include cell phones and car alarm buttons) going on.  We don't know what will trigger the bomb; many IEDs are triggered by a cell phone call.  Some triggers can go off at a strong enough radio signal nearby...  Which can kinda ruin someone's day if they're trying to safely remove the bomb.
> 
> (That's also why you see signs to turn off 2-way radios and cell phones in blasting zones...)



It is a risk on paper. However the 600 mW  max. output of apersonal commuciations device does not radiate a strong enough field to set an explosive simply by proximity.  If such devices were truly a risk to blasting zones, there would be unfortunate accidents: between OnStar, GPS units, satellite radios, cell phones, wireless PDAs, broadband internet access cards, there are many RF gadgets that assuredly don't get turned off when drivers approach them.

I can understand the desire for public safety officials to need every possible advantage in their favor when dealing with a deadly threat.  I certainly don't want our first responders to have a tougher time than they do.   But these children aren't the government's kids, they are their parent's kids.  Plus, the practicality seems reminicent of King Canute trying to hold back the tides with his bare hands.


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## Drac (Mar 16, 2007)

jks9199 said:


> That's another good point; a lock down isn't always a response to a threat AT or TO the school. There may be a police incident or other situation nearby, and keeping the kids inside is just a move to avoid tragic freak accidents or avoid adding one more level of chaos to an already chaotic situation.
> There might just have been a crash with a possible HAZMAT concern in the area, and until the risk is known and the wind direction is determined... keep the kids in school, in one place. Lock downs are, in other words, sometimes just people management tools.





jks9199 said:


> I do...
> 
> 
> 
> but, if the lockdown is in response to a bomb threat... We don't want extraneous radio frequency chatter (to include cell phones and car alarm buttons) going on. We don't know what will trigger the bomb; many IEDs are triggered by a cell phone call. Some triggers can go off at a strong enough radio signal nearby... Which can kinda ruin someone's day if they're trying to safely remove the bomb.(That's also why you see signs to turn off 2-way radios and cell phones in blasting zones...)





Bravo..Well said...


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## jks9199 (Mar 17, 2007)

Carol Kaur said:


> It is a risk on paper. However the 600 mW  max. output of apersonal commuciations device does not radiate a strong enough field to set an explosive simply by proximity.  If such devices were truly a risk to blasting zones, there would be unfortunate accidents: between OnStar, GPS units, satellite radios, cell phones, wireless PDAs, broadband internet access cards, there are many RF gadgets that assuredly don't get turned off when drivers approach them.
> 
> I can understand the desire for public safety officials to need every possible advantage in their favor when dealing with a deadly threat.  I certainly don't want our first responders to have a tougher time than they do.   But these children aren't the government's kids, they are their parent's kids.  Plus, the practicality seems reminicent of King Canute trying to hold back the tides with his bare hands.


The problem with comparing a homemade bomb trigger to professional/commercial equipment is that most homegrown bomb makers aren't electronics experts.  (Hell... Every year we discover a couple of pipe bomb makers when they aren't careful screwing the end caps on, and generate enough friction to ignite some grains, triggering the whole pipe bomb...)  We just don't know what they've done, how they've set it to trigger, and so on -- or what mistakes they've made.  And we just don't like to let Mr. Murphy get involved in a situation like that.I'm not a bomb squad officer; I don't want to be one.  I played enough with homegrown explosives during my youth that I respect the hell out of them...    Currently, there are two primary methods police bomb units use to deal with a bomb.  They either remove it (in a very impressive container vehicle) or they use various methods (water cannon, shotguns, and more) to set it off in place.  They very seldom try to disarm a bomb...  Mistakes just seem to ruin people's days.

Yes, it's a low likliehood that a cell phone, or even our police radios will set off the bomb.  And it's often impractical, especially in today's world, to shut everything off in the area.  OK... let me rephrase that.  It's all but impossible to do so.  But we still try.  Also -- there's a very simple side concern.  ANY radio transmission can be picked up by someone else; there are commercially available scanners that can pick up cell phone calls, and even that can track our police comms gear.  We've had incidents where press coverage alone gave away a tactical approach on buildings; we now take that into account.  And we don't have the luxury of assuming that the bad guys don't have these things or watch TV.


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## kidswarrior (Mar 17, 2007)

Carol Kaur said:


> It is a risk on paper. However the 600 mW  max. output of apersonal commuciations device does not radiate a strong enough field to set an explosive simply by proximity.  If such devices were truly a risk to blasting zones, there would be unfortunate accidents: between OnStar, GPS units, satellite radios, cell phones, wireless PDAs, broadband internet access cards, there are many RF gadgets that assuredly don't get turned off when drivers approach them.



If I knew what you just said, I could turn it into Big Bucks.  :idunno: But alas, the dog's too old, the tricks're too new.  OK, bowing out now.


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