# Tai Chi questions



## Chat Noir (Oct 15, 2011)

Hi folks,

I just started Tai Chi recently which is Yang style and I'm enjoying it so far. I'm curious about Chen style though.  I know Yang comes from that system but how are the two styles different in application and weapon forms? Are they both martial?  Where I live, there's mainly Yang style so I've never really seen Chen to compare it. Thank you.

Laura


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## oaktree (Oct 15, 2011)

Chat Noir said:


> Hi folks,
> 
> I just started Tai Chi recently which is Yang style and I'm enjoying it so far. I'm curious about Chen style though.  I know Yang comes from that system but how are the two styles different in application and weapon forms? Are they both martial?  Where I live, there's mainly Yang style so I've never really seen Chen to compare it. Thank you.
> 
> Laura


 I do not practice Yang style so I will leave that to a Yang stylist. However I do practice Chen style. Chen Taijiquan has lower stances than Yang however this does not mean you have to go very low to practice Chen my teacher was saying that if you are going very low and your Kua is locked meaning the area around your thighs, hips then you should not be going so low. You need to have movement and an open Kua.

In Chen Taijiquan we have in the form leaps, jumps and very tight circles as found in the Lao Jia Er Lu(Pao Chui) form.
  Chen Taijiquan has lots of Qin na applications and you can see in our silk reeling that it looks kinda of like we are holding someone's arm to throw them.
We have alot of strikes with Fa Jin that are more evident than Yang which you do not see it as so much "external looking" 
There is some things in Chen not in Yang and some things Yang has Chen does differently. Both are very martial if the teacher knows and shows you the applications but all the movements do make it martial art there.

You can watch some videos of Chen Taijiquan to see some of the differences. And you can also look into Wu and Sun and a couple of others to compare and better understand your form. Xue Sheng and East Wind I know here practice Yang style so maybe they can talk more about the Yang style.


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## furtom (Oct 15, 2011)

You are going to get a lot of good answers here from very knowledgeable folks. My 2 cents is only the following.

Any stye taiji can be quite martial or not depending on how the teacher teaches and what the student is interested in learning. People say Yang is slow and Chen is fast therefore Chen is obviously more martial. But if you practice Yang in a martial way, sooner or later, you're going to speed it up. Also speed is not nearly as important as the manifestation of energy. Most Yang teachers first try to "open you up" to experience the energy flow, therefore it's slow and relaxed. Chen works on the energy manifestation right away, which most martially oriented people find compelling. 

Don't forget: If all you do is practice the form you'll never find the martial aspects anyway.

In the end, you'll get there if you really want it and you find good teaching.


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## mograph (Oct 15, 2011)

Without getting into the technicalities of it:
Chen style is harder to find.
Since Yang style is taught by everyone and his grandmother, the quality of instruction will vary widely. Since Chen style is harder to find, if you find a teacher, the odds that he or she will be authentic are greater. 
I'm not saying that one is better than the other, just that there are probably ore bad Yang teachers out there just because there are more Yang teachers out there in general, and Tai Chi instruction is not standardized.


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## Chat Noir (Oct 15, 2011)

Thanks for the feedback. Obviously since I just started Tai Chi, I'll be sticking with Yang style.  I have a good teacher, who himself had a good teacher so that's where I'm going to keep my focus.  If I ever find a Chen stylist and have the income to pursue it, I may, but I see myself with Yang style for the long haul.


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## East Winds (Oct 16, 2011)

If your Yang teacher places great emphasis on Yang Cheng-fu's 10 essences then you are on the right track. Unfortunately Yang style has suffered badly from the "New Age" influence and the introduction of modern Wushu forms from the Chinese Government and Wushu organisations in China. Chen has not had this attention and has consequently mainly retained its original lineaged forms. Good luck with your studies and keep us informed of your progress. Incidentally, the first 15 moves of Traditional Yang, follow exactly the first 15 moves from Chen. Just performed in a different manner!!

Very best wishes


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## Bob Klein (May 25, 2012)

The fast and slow mixture of movements in Chen gives an impression of more energetic dynamics.  In Yang style, those dynamics must also be there, but internally.  If you can express vibrant, martial arts dynamics by using the sequential expansion and relaxation of the joints, the compression into the root on the outbreath and the release of energy out of the body on the inbreath as an example (breathwork from William C. C. Chen), while at the same time moving in a subtle, even and minimal way with the body as a whole, then you are laying the foundation for both martial arts and health practice.  

It is this emphasis on the incorporation of vibrant dynamics AT THE SAME TIME as slow evenness that is indicative of Yang style, rather than separating them out in time. And in Yang style you are releasing the energy (out of the body) at the moment that you finish the expansion phase and begin to enter the relaxing and sinking phase of each movement, so that expansion and sinking are linked in this way.  So the release of energy outward allows you to sink downward. 

I  practice Chen style as well as Yang and love both.


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## hechavez (Aug 5, 2012)

I have a blue sash in Tai Chi Chuan Yang.  We do Tai Chi walking, Tai Chi forms.  I have seen the more advanced Tai Chi students practice Tai Chi with bamboo flutes and swords.  I am learning Tai Chi moves where you use brush knee to block/parry and counter with a punch.  You can do the same with partition of the horses mane.  We practice push hands, my chi is very strong (and just informative) I am 5'4", 145 lbs and doing push hands with heavier opponents or taller and heavier opponents, I find it is very difficult for them to move me, and I am able to push them out of balance quite a few times.  Tai Chi Chuan Yang is a martial art from the Shaolin temple.


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## oaktree (Aug 5, 2012)

Oh wow I didn't know Yang style had a flute form.
 Do you guys play the dizi or xiao?
I play the dizi and I am a 4th generation flute player
Going back to my great grandfather.
As far as Yang taijiquan coming from xiaolin,
Well that would dismiss the widely belief it came from
Chen village which both Chen and Yang accept.
I think Chen village has a statute of Yang luchan.

Good you are enjoying your training


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## WC_lun (Aug 5, 2012)

The martial of things depend entirely upon the training, not so much the system itself.  The one diference I have noticed in general, is Yang teachers do not emphasize the fajin as much as the Chen teachers do.  Again, that is a generalization.


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## yak sao (Aug 6, 2012)

hechavez said:


> I have a blue sash in Tai Chi Chuan Yang. We do Tai Chi walking, Tai Chi forms. I have seen the more advanced Tai Chi students practice Tai Chi with* bamboo flutes *and swords. I am learning Tai Chi moves where you use brush knee to block/parry and counter with a punch. You can do the same with partition of the horses mane. We practice push hands, my chi is very strong (and just informative) I am 5'4", 145 lbs and doing push hands with heavier opponents or taller and heavier opponents, I find it is very difficult for them to move me, and I am able to push them out of balance quite a few times. Tai Chi Chuan Yang is a martial art from the Shaolin temple.




Perhaps this is the ruler??


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## Xue Sheng (Aug 6, 2012)

hechavez said:


> Tai Chi Chuan Yang is a martial art from the Shaolin temple.




No, no it isn't


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## mograph (Aug 6, 2012)

Is it reasonable to say that the Chen villagers learned a martial art (long fist?) which had Shaolin roots, but they modified it to give it its essential taijiquan qualities, giving birth to what is taijiquan?


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## clfsean (Aug 6, 2012)

mograph said:


> Is it reasonable to say that the Chen villagers learned a martial art (long fist?) which had Shaolin roots, but they modified it to give it its essential taijiquan qualities, giving birth to what is taijiquan?



The Chen family's original art that they brought with them from Shaanxi I've read is Tong Bei. I've also read they learned Pao Quan from Shaolin. 

But it's incorrect to say Chen Taiji is a Shaolin art. It's also incorrect to say it's a Wudang art. Chen Taiji is Chen Taiji.


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## Xue Sheng (Aug 6, 2012)

mograph said:


> Is it reasonable to say that the Chen villagers learned a martial art (long fist?) which had Shaolin roots, but they modified it to give it its essential taijiquan qualities, giving birth to what is taijiquan?



Saying Chen Taijiquan comes from Shaolin &#8230;no

That is like saying Yiquan comes from the Dai family because that is where Xingyiquan came from and Wang Xiangzhai the, founder of Yiquan, studied Xingyiquan


which is pretty much what clfsean already said said



clfsean said:


> The Chen family's original art that they brought with them from Shaanxi I've read is Tong Bei. I've also read they learned Pao Quan from Shaolin.
> 
> But it's incorrect to say Chen Taiji is a Shaolin art. It's also incorrect to say it's a Wudang art. Chen Taiji is Chen Taiji.



I did not know it might be Tongbei but I heard it was whatever thier original art was (which could have been tiongbei) with some Shaolin Paoquan and then possibly an older qigong form that may actually have been called Taiji Qigong (Or whatever Qigong was labeled as back then).... possibly Taiji Daoyin or an even older name for it.


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