# Fencing or battojutsu for this particular sword?



## CaptSaltyJack (May 5, 2010)

http://www.coldsteel.com/swordcanes.html

I'm looking at that heavy duty sword cane, the one with the curved handle. Do you think that blade would be better suited for fencing or battojutsu?


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## Sukerkin (May 5, 2010)

Assuming that the post is not just some sly way of edging a Cold Steel advert into the forum, the true answer is one you're not going to like - neither.

Modern fencing won't teach you how to use the edges of the blade and it is too short and wrongly formed/balanced to be used by any of the traditional JSA.

If you can find a local smallsword or shortsword WSA then you might be in luck.


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## CaptSaltyJack (May 5, 2010)

I see.. makes sense. Thanks!


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## kaizasosei (May 7, 2010)

How you use it is essentially up to you, but considering that it would probably be used with one hand, you will want to develop much strength and flexibility in the wrist of the dominant hand for starters-even if you plan not to rely on wrist for use in the future-as a safeguard so you really master it and can manuever quickly and adapt if necessary.  

I would work on lunges and stabs mostly for attack and parrying as well as countering for defense.  Definitly should stab many things many times, quickly as well as slowly with flex and conviction.  But battostyle suburi is necessary for all swordmanship because the basis for swordmanship is not the sword but the man.  The body must be a mean swordweilding machine, the shoulders forarms wrists-the many stances and postures must be drilled ad nauseum. -Essentially the tanden should be focused on and at best even the feet and legs trained as in japanese sword arts.

Also, i think it would be appropriate to learn many short staff striking and locking/throwing moves to be able to defend without drawing the blade.
Then you could focus also precisely on drawing of the blade and the implications that that has.  

As the principles of the sword are universal, it doesn't matter if you have a sword or another object or no object at all. The essence is to be in the right place at the right time.

Finally you can think of diverse grappling and striking to supplement and augment the bladework.



j


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## Langenschwert (May 7, 2010)

Not a fan of the grip. In using it, I wouldn't grab it by the cane handle... to much like a modern "pistol" foil grip. not ideal for combat IMO. I'd choke up a bit. I'd have to handle it to be sure.

Sword canes by and large are most useful in a smallsword style. However, there is no handguard whereas there is in smallsword fencing. Look here: http://www.martinez-destreza.com/lecolefrancaise.htm

So, develop a good lunge that's not TOO comitted... more like a rapier lunge than a foil lunge. Practice parries, as it's much harder to use single-time defences with so short a weapon. Practice closing to grappling from your parries... if someone's swinging something at you, the last place you want to be is near the tip of it.

Work on developing your unarmed hand. Keep it near your breastbone to parry your opponent's thrusts.

Remember when all else fails, grab 'n stab. 

Best regards,

-Mark


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## jks9199 (May 7, 2010)

Sword canes were not designed or intended for "lengthy" combat; they were intended as a backstop kind of comparable to carrying a derringer or similar back up gun.  I'd say that short stick/cane techniques are more appropriate, until the blade is revealed as a surprise finishing move.  You're not likely to fence with it so much as quickly respond to an unexpected situation with an improved tool in hand.


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## Sukerkin (May 7, 2010)

Very true, *JKS*.  I should've thought to mention that 'eskrima' style training might very probably be of utility for such a blade.


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## lklawson (May 10, 2010)

Jim Bowie was stabbed through the lung by a Sword Cane in the famous Sandbar Duel.  With the Sword Cane still in his chest, ol' Jim stabbed his antagonist, Maj. Norris Wright, to death.  

'Course Jim was a tough ol' bird and, besides being stabbed, was shot at least twice and beaten as well, but still manged to walk out the "victor" (as much as any man can be said to having been stabbed through the chest, shot, and pummeled).

That said, I own a Sword Cane myself and am not greatly enamored of them.  I really recommend a different hide-out weapon.  First, because Sword Canes are illegal to actually carry in most every jurisdiction.  Second, because, as has been pointed out, they're pretty mediocre as far as being a sword. No protective hilt, generally shorter length, and (in this case) a grip not particularly conducive to sword-work.

However, it does give you reach, and this version is capable of draw and push cuts.  Balance doesn't look promising, but that's not as big a deal in this type of sword.

One thing that many people overlook with Sword Canes is the scabbard.  The shaft of wood and/or metal which houses the sword.  In most cases it makes an excellent left-hand parrying weapon (as much as can be expected sans an effective guard).  Often it also makes a dandy bludgeon.  In the case of the Cold Steel offering, this is especially true.  The blasted thing hits as hard as and is more resilient than a hardwood stick.

What I would honestly suggest is using a two-weapon style.  Club in your forward hand (left hand if you're right handed) to act as a shield, parry, and bludgeon, and the blade in your rear hand to cut, thrust, and to generally convince your antagonist that trying to close range on your bludgeon in order to render it ineffective would be lethally stupid.

To be honest, this is a combination strategy that I personally find effective.  I like a cane in my right hand and a knife in my left, or a Saber in my right and a bowie in my left (when "revolver" isn't an option for the left.   ).

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## CaptSaltyJack (May 30, 2010)

Thanks for the responses! Something to definitely consider, though of course I'm a little concerned that it's not legal to carry this thing around.


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