# Would you rather live in Hiroshima or Detroit?



## Archangel M (Feb 6, 2011)

http://yourbadneighbor.posterous.com/two-major-cities-64-years-after-the-bomb-was



> Was there a bomb in Detroit that we never heard about?? This Area Seems Like It Was Doused With Radiation, Why?


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## Makalakumu (Feb 6, 2011)

The bomb was called Globalism.  Ross Perot heard the giant sucking sound of it going off before many other politicians.


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## Bill Mattocks (Feb 6, 2011)

There were many 'bombs' in Detroit.

First the riots in 1967:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1967_Detroit_riot

Followed by 'white flight' to the suburbs, then years of elected criminals running the city, and then the collapse of the auto industry.

Detroit was a wonderful city; it is on its knees and trying to survive.  Parts of it have experienced a revival; the rest wants to.  I don't know if it will happen or not, but it deserves to survive (perhaps in a new form, but survive nonetheless).

The suburbs are mostly terrific around Detroit.  Good school systems, low crime, decent neighborhoods, racial and religious diversity, the whole thing.  Michigan itself is wonderful.  Beautiful, bountiful, and full of wonderful people.  I am a recent transplant, but I love it here.  It's too bad that photographs of blighted neighborhoods in inner-city Detroit are all many people see of Michigan.

http://www.michigan.org/


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## Big Don (Feb 6, 2011)

I read a story about a year ago, about how there were houses for sale in Detroit for under $10,000. For about 10 minutes, I considered moving to Detroit and buying a house. Then, I remembered the one word that stopped me: SNOW, and the fact that they measure it in FEET...


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## granfire (Feb 6, 2011)

Big Don said:


> I read a story about a year ago, about how there were houses for sale in Detroit for under $10,000. For about 10 minutes, I considered moving to Detroit and buying a house. Then, I remembered the one word that stopped me: SNOW, and the fact that they measure it in FEET...




The average house price was stated at one time at 7500 US Dollars...it came up in the context of tearing down towns and returning them to their rural roots.

Somehow Detroit seems to be a prime candidate for such a project....

And yes, there is snow....But I think I'd rather live in Hiroshima...glowing in the dark and all...


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## Big Don (Feb 6, 2011)

granfire said:


> glowing in the dark and all...


You'd save a fortune on light bulbs...


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## Bill Mattocks (Feb 6, 2011)

granfire said:


> The average house price was stated at one time at 7500 US Dollars...it came up in the context of tearing down towns and returning them to their rural roots.
> 
> Somehow Detroit seems to be a prime candidate for such a project....
> 
> And yes, there is snow....But I think I'd rather live in Hiroshima...glowing in the dark and all...



There are many houses in Detroit that are available for $1,000.  Many for $500.  A lot of them have been stripped for copper, so they'd need a lot of rehab to make them habitable again.  And even then, it would be quite dangerous to live there; for some more than for others.

http://articles.cnn.com/2009-06-17/..._1_cope-neighborhood-hurricane-proof?_s=PM:US



> For less than a few thousand dollars, Cope and Reichert snapped up a  dilapidated bungalow in a north Detroit neighborhood called  "BanglaTown," for its unexpected mix of Bangladeshis, African-Americans,  Polish and Ukrainians and the occasional shady character.
> Scrappers had cleaned the house to the bone. The copper had been stolen; the electrical wiring was stripped.
> But  no matter. Here was a chance for Cope and Reichert, who run a popular  Detroit art store, to rehabilitate the 1920s brick house into a bastion  of energy savings, with solar panels, LED lights, recycled wood and  high-end insulated windows.



Nevertheless, many have taken advantage of the economic climate and done great things.

http://www.freep.com/article/20110127/COL20/101270314/Word-mouth-Ribs-come-quicker-Slows-Go

Brian Perrone and his partner bought a run-down building near the old (and soon to be torn down) Tiger Stadium in Corktown and opened a restaurant, Slows BBQ.  They're doing fine; could not have done it where real estate prices were much higher; Detroit's low prices allowed them to become established.

Snow?  Yeah, we got it.  We also have not one, not two, not three, but FOUR of the Great Lakes bordering us - more miles of lakefront shoreline than any other state.  Cheap real estate means great bargains in remote cabins; hunting, fishing, and just vacationing in a winter wonderland with four-season sports from skiing to fishing to hunting to hiking to you name it.

Michigan is one of the corridors of bird migration; we get great views of all the wonderful birds that migrate north and south; we have a fantastic (if short) growing season and fertile land; we have a thriving wine industry, local beer and hard liquor making.  We grow many varieties of fruit and the 'local food' industry is going great guns in Michigan.  Our 'Eastern Market' in Detroit is one of the finest farmer's markets in the country - not just for the size, but for the diversity; due to the many countries that auto workers were imported from, you can get everything here; from halal to kosher to middle-eastern spices and eastern-european delicacies as well as traditional German, Chinese, Italian, Mexican and Jewish cuisine.

Seriously, anyone who disses Michigan hasn't spent any time here.  It's a great place.  I guess I should be glad that people believe their prejudices about it; keeps prices low for people who can appreciate all Michigan has to offer, like me.

Michigan rules.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/wigwam/sets/


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## K-man (Feb 6, 2011)

1. Because the bomb was detonated in the atmosphere there is very little residual radiation in Hiroshima.
2. Hiroshima today is a beautiful city.
3. Detroit is an industrial city with the associated drawbacks.

Give me Hiroshima.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





Interesting aside. After the early testing of atomic bombs in the US many Americans died as well from radiation relatedcancers.



> In 1963, the U.S. and the Soviet Union halted atmospheric testing due to worries over fallout, after widespread exposure to radiation in fallout. According to a 2002 study by the U.S. National Center for Environmental Health, almost all Americans born since 1951 carry radioactive contamination from aboveground nuclear bombs tests. The report blamed very roughly 11,000 cancer deaths on the fallout.
> The fallout, from more than 400 Cold War atmospheric bomb tests, include the radioactive isotopes strontium 90, which bonds to bones, and iodine 131, which causes thyroid cancer. A previous study by the National Cancer Institute estimated that 11,300 to 212,000 thyroid cancers resulted from atmospheric testing. Most thyroid cancers are curable.


 http://www.whyfiles.org/020radiation/index.php?g=4.txt


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## granfire (Feb 6, 2011)

Bill Mattocks said:


> There are many houses in Detroit that are available for $1,000.  Many for $500.  A lot of them have been stripped for copper, so they'd need a lot of rehab to make them habitable again.  And even then, it would be quite dangerous to live there; for some more than for others.
> 
> http://articles.cnn.com/2009-06-17/..._1_cope-neighborhood-hurricane-proof?_s=PM:US
> 
> ...


yep.

Compared to that, my first ever house was in the high rent district....20k....

(naturally, average means there are a lot of houses bringing it down)


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## crushing (Feb 6, 2011)

This Chrysler commercial during the Super Bowl had me thinking of this thread and, in particular, Bill's comments.

[yt]SKL254Y_jtc[/yt]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKL254Y_jtc


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## Carol (Feb 6, 2011)

Big Don said:


> I read a story about a year ago, about how there were houses for sale in Detroit for under $10,000. For about 10 minutes, I considered moving to Detroit and buying a house. Then, I remembered the one word that stopped me: SNOW, and the fact that they measure it in FEET...



We measure snow in feet here too.  Its nice being on this side of the glass, lemmetellya.


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## Big Don (Feb 6, 2011)

Since the 1940's both Hiroshima and Detroit had MASSIVE amounts of US Tax dollars sent in, so, why is Detroit such a hole?


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## Ken Morgan (Feb 6, 2011)

Its really quite sad, they're are some many beautiful building falling down....


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## 5-0 Kenpo (Feb 7, 2011)

Bill Mattocks said:


> Detroit was a wonderful city; it is on its knees and trying to survive. Parts of it have experienced a revival; the rest wants to. I don't know if it will happen or not, but it deserves to survive (perhaps in a new form, but survive nonetheless).


 
Just curious:  Deserves to survive, or deserves the _opportunity_ to survive?


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## SenseiMattKlein (Feb 7, 2011)

I'm sure if you looked hard enough, you would find beautiful areas within any city, and not so beautiful areas. In general, I think the Japanese take more pride in their neighborhoods than most Americans. Their culture recognizes and values the beauty of nature.


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## Tez3 (Feb 7, 2011)

I'd live in neither nor any other city. I like the countryside, the slower pace of life and the friendlier people as well as less traffic, less noise and generally a better quality of life I like. I think it's much the same for most cities and most country areas whereever you go in the world. Ther is often less money in the countryside but other things make up for that like growing your own fruit and veg, hearing the birds sing then shooting them for dinner etc etc.


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## Bill Mattocks (Feb 7, 2011)

5-0 Kenpo said:


> Just curious:  Deserves to survive, or deserves the _opportunity_ to survive?



Well said.  The latter.  Thanks.


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## Bill Mattocks (Feb 7, 2011)

SenseiMattKlein said:


> I'm sure if you looked hard enough, you would find beautiful areas within any city, and not so beautiful areas. In general, I think the Japanese take more pride in their neighborhoods than most Americans. Their culture recognizes and values the beauty of nature.



Yes on the first part, no on the second.  I lived in Okinawa in the early 1980's.  Clean it wasn't.  Pretty it wasn't.  Stinking, polluted, run-down and filled with garbage, it was.  As you said, every city has good parts and bad parts.  But no, the Japanese are not particularly different from us in terms of the value they place on the beauty of nature, particularly in the most recent generations.

The grass always tends to look greener (no pun intended) on the other side.  We tend to denigrate our own cultures and look with envy at the culture of others.  I've spent a lot of time overseas in non-touristy areas and I don't buy that anymore.  People are people; filthy, vile, unspeakably cruel, and also clean, decent and wonderfully kind.  Doesn't seem to be attached to any one culture that I know of.


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## Bill Mattocks (Feb 7, 2011)

crushing said:


> This Chrysler commercial during the Super Bowl had me thinking of this thread and, in particular, Bill's comments.
> 
> [yt]SKL254Y_jtc[/yt]
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKL254Y_jtc



Yeah, I was thinking of this thread when I saw this on the news this morning (didn't watch the Superbowl).  Great commercial, and I'm not a huge fan of the way the new cars look.  I wanted the cars to look better.  But the commercial itself cuts right to the heart of the matter; I know all those streets, I've been everywhere that commercial shows.  It's the heart of Detroit.  Good, bad, all of it.

As a transplant, I can't speak for Detroiters.  But I think Detroit matters.


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## Xue Sheng (Feb 7, 2011)

*Detroit*






The Ruins of Detroit

*Hiroshima*








Hiroshima Before

Hiroshima After

Hiroshima Now


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## ballen0351 (Feb 7, 2011)

Wow Some of the buildings in the Detroit Pics looked like at one time they were amazing its sad to see how they look now


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## Carol (Feb 7, 2011)

Rehabilitation is possible.  This is Lowell, Mass.  In the 1960s, efforts were put forth to restore and preserve the great old mill buildings from its heyday in the mid 1800s.  The city is still a work in progress -- but after nearly 50 years of efforts, there has been a lot of progress.  I captured these photos last May.

The old Lawrence Mills...




Where we have PRIDE in our product by Sikaranista, on Flickr

.....is now Renaissance on the River (condos)




Renaissance On The River by Sikaranista, on Flickr

With grounds that look like this...




Lowell's DNA by Sikaranista, on Flickr

...and a nearby park that looks like this...




Lowell 2 441 by Sikaranista, on Flickr






Ruins from the old Boott Mill...




Lowell 2 327 by Sikaranista, on Flickr




Lowell 2 326 by Sikaranista, on Flickr




Lowell 2 344 by Sikaranista, on Flickr



And its rehabilitation...note the broken glass or boarded up windows on the right, and the modern windows on the left.




Renovations In Progress by Sikaranista, on Flickr


Part of the finished product:




Lowell 2 324 by Sikaranista, on Flickr




Some fully restored and/or preserved buildings:

Wannalancit Mills -- residential and university space for UMass Lowell



Wannalancit Mills by Sikaranista, on Flickr


Storage Building No. 1:  Yarn storage for Boott Mills, preserved as part of Lowell National Park.




Storage Building No. 1 by Sikaranista, on Flickr


The mills on the stretch of the Pawtucket Canal called "Industrial Canyon" are now modern lofts.



Lowell 079 by Sikaranista, on Flickr


Boarding House Park -- the park itself is used for concerts and other public events in the summer.  The boarding houses behind it were boarding houses for the workers at the Boott Cotton Mills and is now living space.



Boarding House Park by Sikaranista, on Flickr


Market Mills -- Retail, galleries, office space, residential space



Peeking at Old Glory -- Day 5 of 365 by Sikaranista, on Flickr

Mills in the background are multi-use.  There is also a lot of public art around the city:



Mill City Girls by Sikaranista, on Flickr


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## Xue Sheng (Feb 7, 2011)

Hey if Hiroshima can recover why can't Detroit, but it will not happen over night


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## David43515 (Feb 7, 2011)

I`ve been to both and enjoyed myself immensely.......it`s a tough call but I`ve gotta pick Detroit. Both have hot humid summers, but I`d miss the snow in Hiroshima. (Of course I`d miss the huge numbers of Japanese girls in short skirts in Detroit, so it balances out.)


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## Big Don (Feb 8, 2011)

Part of the reason Detroit looks like it does: LANGUAGE WARNING


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## granfire (Feb 8, 2011)

Xue Sheng said:


> Hey if Hiroshima can recover why can't Detroit, but it will not happen over night



If they nuked it, maybe


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## crushing (Feb 8, 2011)

granfire said:


> If they nuked it, maybe


 
I was also thinking that often it is easier to build new than to re-build over old.

I first thought of Dresden for comparison, then started a google search of before and after photos when I found this site: 12 unrecognizable before and after views of cities


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## Big Don (Feb 8, 2011)

granfire said:


> If they nuked it, maybe


But, both had BILLIONS of American tax dollars poured in, one flourished, the other floundered.


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## granfire (Feb 8, 2011)

Big Don said:


> But, both had BILLIONS of American tax dollars poured in, one flourished, the other floundered.




Well, I am not going to try to pick up a turd by the clean end... the reason it don't work are manyfold...and many have no interest in having Detroit succeed...


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## Big Don (Feb 8, 2011)

granfire said:


> Well, I am not going to try to pick up a turd by the clean end... the reason it don't work are manyfold...and many have no interest in having Detroit succeed...


Yeah, I guess you can't point to 49 years of Democrat mayors...


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## granfire (Feb 8, 2011)

Big Don said:


> Yeah, I guess you can't point to 49 years of Democrat mayors...



No, that was not where I was aiming at, but it shall do.


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