# Someone who does Taekwondo?



## andyjeffries

How do you refer to someone who does Taekwondo?

I'd always understood the correct term was Taekwondoin. I saw today though that the UK Telegraph (major national newspaper in the UK) suggests the term Taekwonda.  I've heard others combining English and Korean to come up with Taekwondoist.  On a related topic, I'm a stickler for not pluralising Korean words - so 1 Taekwondoin, 1000000 Taekwondoin.  Am I the only one, or do others pluralise Korean words when used in English sentences?

What do you guys use?

Also, they suggest Taekwondo is played rather than fought.  When I was younger (a child) I always used to consider "playing" an insult to be often met with "if you think it's playing, you step in the ring with one of us".  Recently (with the advent of the UFC) I do consider it playing a game with a ruleset rather than fighting.

What do you guys think - player or fighter?


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## granfire

I guess since some other games including players are so much more important than life and death (like college football, or football/soccer for the rest of the world) I think we can go with 'player' 

I suppose calling a TKD person a taekwondoka would be undue influence of japanese language into the Korean national pride?


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## dancingalone

I use TKDist myself.  It is utilitarian in the sense that most anyone will instantly understand what I mean.  I'm not sure the same is true for 'taekwondoin'.  Personally, taekwondoin smacks too much of 'a gaggle of geese' or 'a murder of crows' to me.  It just sounds pretentious in my ear, but I concede plenty of thoughtful, grounded people on this board use the word.

Perhaps someone can explain the etymology of 'taekwondoin' to me.


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## andyjeffries

dancingalone said:


> Perhaps someone can explain the etymology of 'taekwondoin' to me.



I'd look forward to this too.  I am aware of -bun and -saram meaning person/people so would have expected one of those at the end, but I don't know what -in means.

I've tried googling for it and can't find anything (and my Korean dictionaries are at home).

If any native speakers (or knowledgeable fellows/fellowesses) can help answer this...


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## terryl965

TKD'ist is what I use as well, I have heard the word taeKwondoin used alot by people but that is them. I am not sure there is a correct way of saying it, I am also sure that TKD is not a game but has been developed as one. When I think as played this means game to me, even though we do the sport aspect I still believe TKD can be used as a Self Defense art.


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## Balrog

I refer to myself first as a Taekwondo student and second as a Taekwondo instructor.


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## chrispillertkd

andyjeffries said:


> What do you guys use?


 
Taekwon-Do*in*.



> Also, they suggest Taekwondo is played rather than fought. When I was younger (a child) I always used to consider "playing" an insult to be often met with "if you think it's playing, you step in the ring with one of us". Recently (with the advent of the UFC) I do consider it playing a game with a ruleset rather than fighting.
> 
> What do you guys think - player or fighter?


 
Uh, Taekwon-Doin. 

Pax,

Chris


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## chrispillertkd

dancingalone said:


> I use TKDist myself. It is utilitarian in the sense that most anyone will instantly understand what I mean. I'm not sure the same is true for 'taekwondoin'. Personally, taekwondoin smacks too much of 'a gaggle of geese' or 'a murder of crows' to me. It just sounds pretentious in my ear, but I concede plenty of thoughtful, grounded people on this board use the word.


 
Do you use "karate-ist" instead of karateka when referring to karate practitioners?



> Perhaps someone can explain the etymology of 'taekwondoin' to me.


 
A friend of mine who lives in Korea told me this once. I cannot, of course, locate the e-mail. I'll look a bit more and see if it turns up.

Pax,

Chris


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## dancingalone

chrispillertkd said:


> Do you use "karate-ist" instead of karateka when referring to karate practitioners?



No, but I would understand it if someone used "karate-ist".  With that said, my antipathy for "taekwondoin" comes from an apparent misunderstanding on my part.  I did not realize "in" was Korean.  I thought it was an affectation made by an English speaker.  And if "in" is Korean, then I withdraw my opposition to the term.


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## andyjeffries

dancingalone said:


> I did not realize "in" was Korean.  I thought it was an affectation made by an English speaker.  And if "in" is Korean, then I withdraw my opposition to the term.



It definitely is a Korean term.  If you google for &#53468;&#44428;&#46020;&#51064; you'll have lots of hits.  I don't know what &#51064; means though.  I'm now at home so have access to one (rather rubbish) Korean dictionary (I don't know where my decent one is).  &#51064;&#44036; (ingan) means "Man" so assuming -in is an abbreviated form then "Taekwondo Man" would be reasonable.  

Knowing the Koreans and their love of brevity, I'd imagine they are thinking of Man as in Human not Male (of course, given their sexist society I wouldn't be surprised).


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## puunui

dancingalone said:


> Perhaps someone can explain the etymology of 'taekwondoin' to me.



The "in" in Taekwondoin is pronounced "jin" in Japanese. Japanese usage examples would be Nihonjin (Japanese person) or Gaijin (person from another country). I believe "in" means "person". I don't know why "in" is used in Korea instead of "ka", like Karateka or Judoka. But that is how Taekwondo practitioners are referred to there. 

I tend not to use "ist"; no one I know uses that term in daily life. I use in or practitioner or student. Some people use the term "player", but I try to stay away from that one because some others may take it the wrong way and go off and we certainly don't need another "sport vs. martial art" argument. I also tend to avoid the word "sport" for the same reason, and say "competition" instead.


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## puunui

granfire said:


> I suppose calling a TKD person a taekwondoka would be undue influence of japanese language into the Korean national pride?




I have seen Taekwondoka written before. I can't say that I have seen that usage in Korean language books though or used by native Korean speakers. I am sure there is a translation for the Japanese term ka into Korean, and perhaps it is ka or ga. And I don't know about the undue influence part but I don't think that it is used all that frequently in Korean language situations, if at all.


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## puunui

andyjeffries said:


> What do you guys think - player or fighter?




Sometimes I use fighter, but but there are those who oppose the use of fighter because they consider fighting to be armed military conflicts and not tournaments. I think player offends others because they think of Taekwondo as a martial art and not a sport, which is a dirty word and low concept to them. So I instead use "competitor", and no one seems to have a problem with that word.


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## ralphmcpherson

I have always said tkdist but thats just because its what Ive heard others say. I tend not to use the term 'player', mainly because many of the guys who do the refereeing in my club say "feet together", "bow", "sparring stance" and then "fight" as the commands when we spar. Some say "sijak" to start the sparring, but many these days just say "fight". I also hear a lot of instructors yell at the kids when they just throw their kicks and punches with no real intent on making good contact, and they will say "you are fighting, not playing a game", so Ive always sort of had issues with the term "playing", although Ive heard the koreans at our club say 'playing' regularly.


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## ATACX GYM

dancingalone said:


> I use TKDist myself. It is utilitarian in the sense that most anyone will instantly understand what I mean. I'm not sure the same is true for 'taekwondoin'. Personally, taekwondoin smacks too much of 'a gaggle of geese' or 'a murder of crows' to me. It just sounds pretentious in my ear, but I concede plenty of thoughtful, grounded people on this board use the word.
> 
> Perhaps someone can explain the etymology of 'taekwondoin' to me.


 
I use TKDist most often myself...sometimes I use it to make the distinction between TKD players because 'players' carries a strong connotation of purely sport orientation.I do compete in tournies--undefeated,thanks--but my focus is self-defense.


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## sfs982000

I refer to myself as a martial artist   Plain and simple.


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## Daniel Sullivan

andyjeffries said:


> How do you refer to someone who does Taekwondo?
> 
> I'd always understood the correct term was Taekwondoin. I saw today though that the UK Telegraph (major national newspaper in the UK) suggests the term Taekwonda. I've heard others combining English and Korean to come up with Taekwondoist. On a related topic, I'm a stickler for not pluralising Korean words - so 1 Taekwondoin, 1000000 Taekwondoin. Am I the only one, or do others pluralise Korean words when used in English sentences?
> 
> What do you guys use?
> 
> Also, they suggest Taekwondo is played rather than fought. When I was younger (a child) I always used to consider "playing" an insult to be often met with "if you think it's playing, you step in the ring with one of us". Recently (with the advent of the UFC) I do consider it playing a game with a ruleset rather than fighting.
> 
> What do you guys think - player or fighter?


Taekwondoin is both singular and plural to my knowledge; kind of like moose.  So far as I know, it has the same connotation as the general usage of karate*ka*. 

Otherwise, taekwondoist serves nicely.  

Or trampling-foot-striking-fist-wayist. 

Daniel


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## miguksaram

Ok....woke my wife up for this one. ha.ha.ha.  She is unaware of the term of Takwondoin in proper Korean language.  I mean proper meaning that sometimes there are terms used in Taekwondo that are related to TKD (slang if you will) and not to common Korean language.  

If you were to refer to someone who does Taekwondo you would say Taekwondotaewayo (I think that is how you would spell it).  'In' may be an offshoot of 'jin' from the Japanese language which Glenn pointed out.  'Saram' usually mean person (Example Miguksaram=America person).  

Even using 'in' as in Taekwondoin you would not use it in a plural since like Taekwondoins, as there are no plural words in Korean language.  You don't say Doboks isseyo? (Do you have dobok?)  You would just say Dobok isseyo?


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## puunui

miguksaram said:


> Even using 'in' as in Taekwondoin you would not use it in a plural since like Taekwondoins, as there are no plural words in Korean language.  You don't say Doboks isseyo? (Do you have dobok?)  You would just say Dobok isseyo?




Where it comes up the most is in relation to forms - Palgwaes, Taegueks, poomsaes, tuls, hyungs, etc. But so many people say it like that, it is difficult to correct them all. And some will get really angry if you try to point the above out to them.


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## miguksaram

puunui said:


> Where it comes up the most is in relation to forms - Palgwaes, Taegueks, poomsaes, tuls, hyungs, etc. But so many people say it like that, it is difficult to correct them all. And some will get really angry if you try to point the above out to them.


I have been and still am guilty of doing that.  I have been trying my best to adhere to the right way of saying that.


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## andyjeffries

miguksaram said:


> Ok....woke my wife up for this one. ha.ha.ha.  She is unaware of the term of Takwondoin in proper Korean language.  I mean proper meaning that sometimes there are terms used in Taekwondo that are related to TKD (slang if you will) and not to common Korean language.
> 
> If you were to refer to someone who does Taekwondo you would say Taekwondotaewayo (I think that is how you would spell it).  'In' may be an offshoot of 'jin' from the Japanese language which Glenn pointed out.  'Saram' usually mean person (Example Miguksaram=America person).



Interesting.  Given that it's not an everyday Korean word, I wonder if there are any native Korean Taekwondoin on here that know the history of the term?



miguksaram said:


> Even using 'in' as in Taekwondoin you would not use it in a plural since like Taekwondoins, as there are no plural words in Korean language.  You don't say Doboks isseyo? (Do you have dobok?)  You would just say Dobok isseyo?



I absolutely agree (hence why I said I'm a stickler for it), but I wondered if others do use plurals with Korean words.  From what Puunui said, some people do...


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## karatemom

sfs982000 said:


> I refer to myself as a martial artist  Plain and simple.


 
me 2!


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## Daniel Sullivan

Okay, I believe that 'in' may be a variation of a Japanese reading of the hanja.  The first time that I heard the term 'in' was on a kumdo forum; kumdoin.  Most everyone used it and there were many Koreans and Korean speakers.  Type kendo person into a translator and you get kendo-jin.  The kanji is &#21091;&#36947;&#20154;.  The last character is person, which is saram in Korean.

I am supposing (completely extrapolation on my part) that the suffix came into vogue during the occupation and simply stuck around.  It is, after all, easy to say.

That is the best that I can come up with, and my level of scholarship in this area is relatively low, so if someone else has a more correct explanation, feel free to correct me.

Daniel


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## puunui

Daniel Sullivan said:


> Okay, I believe that 'in' may be a variation of a Japanese reading of the hanja.  The first time that I heard the term 'in' was on a kumdo forum; kumdoin.  Most everyone used it and there were many Koreans and Korean speakers.  Type kendo person into a translator and you get kendo-jin.  The kanji is &#21091;&#36947;&#20154;.  The last character is person, which is saram in Korean.




The last character, the one that looks like a tent, is pronounced saram or in, depending on the context.


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## Daniel Sullivan

puunui said:


> The last character, the one that looks like a tent, is pronounced saram or in, depending on the context.


So in the context of 'taekwondo person,' would in or saram, or something else, be correct?

Daniel


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## puunui

Daniel Sullivan said:


> So in the context of 'taekwondo person,' would in or saram, or something else, be correct? Daniel




I hear and read Taekwondoin all the time; I never hear or read Taekwondo saram. So I would say Taekwondoin.


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## miguksaram

puunui said:


> I hear and read Taekwondoin all the time; I never hear or read Taekwondo saram. So I would say Taekwondoin.


Yes the last symbol is 'saram' or person.  'In' is most likely derived from Japanese 'jin' as you pointed out before.  

What would be interesting is to hear from people who take Taekkyon or Sirum or other Korean born arts to see if they use the term 'in'.  Perhaps since, TKD and Kumdo are derived from Japanese arts that is why they refer to 'in'.


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## puunui

miguksaram said:


> Yes the last symbol is 'saram' or person.  'In' is most likely derived from Japanese 'jin' as you pointed out before.




I've been looking all over the house for my Japanese kanji dictionary, so I can look up the character for Ka in Karateka. I'm wondering if it is the same character for jin.


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## Daniel Sullivan

puunui said:


> I've been looking all over the house for my Japanese kanji dictionary, so I can look up the character for Ka in Karateka. I'm wondering if it is the same character for jin.


No, assuming that karate, judo, and aikido use the same 'ka' as kendo.  Kendoka: &#21091;&#36947;&#23478;.  I know translators are not always the best for this, but when I plug that into google tranlate, I get geomdoga &#44160;&#46020;&#44032;.

Generally, kendo*ka *is used to describe someone who is more than just a practitioner or competitor and usually who functions in something resembling a professinal capacity, such as an instructor, coach, or club owner.  The term used for a general kendo practitioner is actually ken_shi _&#21091;&#22763;, which is swordsman.

Daniel


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## puunui

Daniel Sullivan said:


> No, assuming that karate, judo, and aikido use the same 'ka' as kendo.  Kendoka: &#21091;&#36947;&#23478;.  I know translators are not always the best for this, but when I plug that into google tranlate, I get geomdoga &#44160;&#46020;&#44032;.
> 
> Generally, kendo*ka *is used to describe someone who is more than just a practitioner or competitor and usually who functions in something resembling a professinal capacity, such as an instructor, coach, or club owner.  The term used for a general kendo practitioner is actually ken_shi _&#21091;&#22763;, which is swordsman.
> 
> Daniel



Thanks for the explanation. Off topic, but I recently purchased this awesome book on the history of kendo. It is written in both japanese and english, and the author is american or british. For example, I thought the shinai was a relatively recent innovation, but the book explains that it has been around for hundreds of years. Things like that. The book is changing my view of kendo and its development.


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## miguksaram

puunui said:


> Thanks for the explanation. Off topic, but I recently purchased this awesome book on the history of kendo. It is written in both japanese and english, and the author is american or british. For example, I thought the shinai was a relatively recent innovation, but the book explains that it has been around for hundreds of years. Things like that. The book is changing my view of kendo and its development.


What is the name of the book?


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## Daniel Sullivan

puunui said:


> Thanks for the explanation. Off topic, but I recently purchased this awesome book on the history of kendo. It is written in both japanese and english, and the author is american or british. For example, I thought the shinai was a relatively recent innovation, but the book explains that it has been around for hundreds of years. Things like that. The book is changing my view of kendo and its development.


Don't keep us in suspense!  What is the name and who is the author?

Daniel


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## puunui

It's called the History of Kendo. You can buy it here:

http://cgi.ebay.com/History-Kendo-J...9?pt=US_Texbook_Education&hash=item2c571830b5


Hurry there are only four left.


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