# Banda Y Banda



## Rich Parsons

Banda Y Banda:

Please see Striking 1 - 12

As I was taught, Banda Y Banda is a side to side motion. The right hand can cross over the left or the left hand can cross over the right. 

Start with both hands out palms up and bring them across you in a horizontal fashion for strikes. i.e. a Number 3 strike. Rotate the wrists so now the palms are down, and then strike back. i.e. Number 4 stike.

Our club uses this to teach flowing techniques where the feeder strikes the patter 1, 2, 9, & 8 and then repeats. Once the person practicing Banda Y Banda becomes more familiar with the technique and timing, they then can insert other techniques into the drill such as Disarms


Thoughts, comments, issues?

Do you teach this special strike?

If so, then how? 

Thank You for your discussion.
 :asian:


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## Mark Lynn

I heard (I think from the Professor) that the term/name Banda y Banda refers to the motion of the tall grass in the fields as it is blowing in the wind.  Back and forth back and forth.

Anybody hear a similar/same descrition of the term/name?  The reason I ask is banda y banda a back and forth motion on the horizontal only (such as the desription refers to) or is it a back and forth motion on any line such as the diagonal lines?  Say you strike a high forehand (#1) and then reverse the motion cutting back on the same diagonal line. 

Is the crossada motion (opening and closing the X) considered a Banda y Banda type of technique?  Because the way I practiced/learned the Banda y Banda ws off of the block check and counter drill format.

Should Banda y banda be capitialized as a proper name or same letters?  I'm so confused   :idunno: 

Mark


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## DoxN4cer

In my interpretation, banda y banda is a lead-in to cruzada and what MA folks call  "the flow". Payong and pluma (umbella block and slant block) are also lead-ins to cruzada. If you tie all of that stuff in, you get cruzada. The main difference is how the live hand is employed, and whether ot not you have a weapon occupying your live hand. 


Tim Kashino


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## Dan Anderson

banda y banda = side by side.

Dan Anderson


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## Rich Parsons

Dan Anderson said:
			
		

> banda y banda = side by side.
> 
> Dan Anderson



So what you are saying there Dan, is that I misspelled it in the first post? 

I apologize for that.
 :asian:


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## Dan Anderson

El Rikki,

Reference for the spelling is in the original pink book, _Modern Arnis Philippine Martial Art "Stick Fighting"_ page 153.

the Big Daddy  :asian:


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## Rich Parsons

Dan Anderson said:
			
		

> El Rikki,
> 
> Reference for the spelling is in the original pink book, _Modern Arnis Philippine Martial Art "Stick Fighting"_ page 153.
> 
> the Big Daddy  :asian:



Yes it is. I just forgot to check my references as 12:12 AM


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## Cruentus

I teach the special strikes like banda y banda as if they are blade (sword) techniqes first, as that is their origin. Then, they learn to translate the concept to other mediums.

 :asian:


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## Guro Harold

What I like about Hock's Archipelago and Filipino Combatives system is that he shows that Banda Y Banda can be used diagonally for strike angles 1, 2,  8, and 9, while 3, 4, 10 and 11 can be used on the horizontal plane, and 12 can be used for the straight vertical plane.

Playing around with them, I noticed some interesting progressions:

(Note: These are from a Right-handed perspective - Left is translatable.)
(Note: Unless otherwise noted, these strikes use a wrist turn.)

Strike 1 - Diagonal down, return strike becomes an umbrella/payong block or "nasty" punyo follow-up.

Strike 2 - Diagonal down, return strike becomes a slant/payong or upper-cut strike.

Strikes (3 - 4), (10 - 11) - Can be wrist turning execution or static wrist.  If a static wrist is used, it introduces sungkitis on the return path.  This technique is used in other systems to slide off a power block and then follow up with a poke.

Strike 8 - Diagonal up with return path strike introduces rompida.

Strike 9 - Diagonal up with return path strike introduces arco.

Best regards,

Palusut


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## arnisador

Hey, that's an interesting way to view it!


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## lhommedieu

The Boar Man said:
			
		

> I heard (I think from the Professor) that the term/name Banda y Banda refers to the motion of the tall grass in the fields as it is blowing in the wind.  Back and forth back and forth.
> 
> Anybody hear a similar/same descrition of the term/name?  The reason I ask is banda y banda a back and forth motion on the horizontal only (such as the desription refers to) or is it a back and forth motion on any line such as the diagonal lines?  Say you strike a high forehand (#1) and then reverse the motion cutting back on the same diagonal line.



I was taught (not in Modern Arnis but in San Miguel Eskrima) that "banda" refers to a diagonal backhand downward strike that goes all the way (or almost all of the way) down to the floor, and then returns back on the same diagonal line as an upward forehand diagonal strike.  It's done very quickly, as if the first strike "bounces" off the floor and returns back the way it came.  

It's interesting to note that both (MA and SME) uses  of the term "banda" carry the connotation that the strike has a lively, elastic quality.

Best,

Steve Lamade


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## DoxN4cer

Palusut said:
			
		

> What I like about Hock's Archipelago and Filipino Combatives system is that he shows that Banda Y Banda can be used diagonally for strike angles 1, 2,  8, and 9, while 3, 4, 10 and 11 can be used on the horizontal plane, and 12 can be used for the straight vertical plane.
> 
> Playing around with them, I noticed some interesting progressions:
> 
> (Note: These are from a Right-handed perspective - Left is translatable.)
> (Note: Unless otherwise noted, these strikes use a wrist turn.)
> 
> Strike 1 - Diagonal down, return strike becomes an umbrella/payong block or "nasty" punyo follow-up.
> 
> Strike 2 - Diagonal down, return strike becomes a slant/payong or upper-cut strike.
> 
> Strikes (3 - 4), (10 - 11) - Can be wrist turning execution or static wrist.  If a static wrist is used, it introduces sungkitis on the return path.  This technique is used in other systems to slide off a power block and then follow up with a poke.
> 
> Strike 8 - Diagonal up with return path strike introduces rompida.
> 
> Strike 9 - Diagonal up with return path strike introduces arco.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Palusut



Put another stick or a knife in your hand and you have Cruzada.

Tim


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## Guro Harold

DoxN4cer said:
			
		

> Put another stick or a knife in your hand and you have Cruzada.
> 
> Tim



Hi Tim,

I agree with you 100%.  To me it seems that banda y banda is a base for alot of the more advanced techniques.  A couple of students and myself were playing with the doublestick hubad drill with cruzada action last night.

Best regards,

Palusut


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## loki09789

So which came first:  Banda Y Banda or Crossada/Cruzada?  Was Flow the "laboratory" basic that eventually would lead to the introduction of the others in MA?  I know that MA has conceptual "flow" which could also be called "fluidity" of mind and body while in motion, so I guess I am really asking about the application motions and not the philosophy here.


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## Guro Harold

loki09789 said:
			
		

> So which came first:  Banda Y Banda or Crossada/Cruzada?  Was Flow the "laboratory" basic that eventually would lead to the introduction of the others in MA?  I know that MA has conceptual "flow" which could also be called "fluidity" of mind and body while in motion, so I guess I am really asking about the application motions and not the philosophy here.



Hi Paul,

That's a good question.  I don't have the history to answer it myself.

It is interesting. however, that by adding the checking hand or opposing weapon, that the concept of double-action is introduced as well.  Since double-action is more complicated than single-action, it seems that the combination itself leads to a progression.

Also, I learned that crossada/crossada is not just the opposing double-action technique but also a stationary block with the opposing sticks or the espada Y daga crossed.  Tuhon Ray Dionaldo demonstrated some techiques the first seminar that I met him at a few years ago.

Best regards,

Palusut


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## DoxN4cer

loki09789 said:
			
		

> So which came first:  Banda Y Banda or Crossada/Cruzada?  Was Flow the "laboratory" basic that eventually would lead to the introduction of the others in MA?  I know that MA has conceptual "flow" which could also be called "fluidity" of mind and body while in motion, so I guess I am really asking about the application motions and not the philosophy here.



That's like asking "which came first, the chicken of the egg?" However, the logical teaching progression in my mind would be banda y banda... flow drill... cruzada. That would show the more simple movements before the more adavnced material... you know, crawl-walk-run. Does that clarify it a little?

Palusut, cruzada can be a jamming type "X" block followed by a pass and entry as well (... but please don't stay stationary YIKES!!!). That's where the connection is made between b-y-b, flow and cruzada. 

Tim Kashino


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## Guro Harold

DoxN4cer said:
			
		

> That's like asking "which came first, the chicken of the egg?" However, the logical teaching progression in my mind would be banda y banda... flow drill... cruzada. That would show the more simple movements before the more adavnced material... you know, crawl-walk-run. Does that clarify it a little?
> 
> Palusut, cruzada can be a jamming type "X" block followed by a pass and entry as well (... but please don't stay stationary YIKES!!!). That's where the connection is made between b-y-b, flow and cruzada.
> 
> Tim Kashino



Hi Tim,

Thanks for your concern, however, for clarification, my use of the word "stationary" did not mean a constant state of being, it actually meant for only the instantaneous moment of the block itself.

I only mentioned this technique only as a side note to cruzada and with no relationship with the flowing attributes of banda Y banda.


Respectfully,

Palusut :asian:


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## Mark Lynn

loki09789 said:
			
		

> So which came first:  Banda Y Banda or Crossada/Cruzada?  Was Flow the "laboratory" basic that eventually would lead to the introduction of the others in MA?  I know that MA has conceptual "flow" which could also be called "fluidity" of mind and body while in motion, so I guess I am really asking about the application motions and not the philosophy here.



Hi Paul

Could it be that they came seperate with no connection between them until later.

GM Remy told me that he would travel around and fight other escrima players (teachers) from this area or that and take the esscence of their style and incorperate it into his own.  Could this not be two movements (b y b and crossada) of two different styles that share some same movements during the course of their execution. 

For instance there is the abaniko system, the up and down system, etc. etc. and I think that the crossada and the b y b were styles of play as well.  After GM Remy incorperated them into MA now we on the other end say hey if we do this or that or insert this or that then we have this technique.  I mean the up and down method is just b y b on it's side without the wrist twist, or Rompedia done horizontally instead of vertically.

(My wife came in and discussed the family resposnibilities of the day, totally braking my concentration on the point I was trying to make.)

The banda y banda movement is common in many systems, the crossada is common in many systems, to me they are seperate, taught as seperate techniques.  No disrespect intended and maybe I'm reading to much into the way the thread is going.  If so I apologize.  
Mark


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## Guro Harold

The Boar Man said:
			
		

> The banda y banda movement is common in many systems, the crossada is common in many systems, to me they are seperate, taught as seperate techniques.  No disrespect intended and maybe I'm reading to much into the way the thread is going.  If so I apologize.
> Mark



Hi Mark,

I can see your point also if one grouped banda Y banda and the up and down movements as crossada/scissors because of the weapons crossing.

From what I have heard true crossada is considered as a seperate sub-system.  It appeared to me that the Professor presented the subsystems as striking styles and presented techniques based on the striking styles.

Best regards,

Palusut

PS Mark, if you are Mark A. and you attended the Ring of Fire this year, your good reputation has preceeded you.


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## Rich Parsons

Palusut said:
			
		

> From what I have heard true crossada is considered as a seperate sub-system.  It appeared to me that the Professor presented the subsystems as striking styles and presented techniques based on the striking styles.




I would have to agree with this statment.
 :asian:


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## Mark Lynn

Palusut

No sorry your thinking of another guy.  I do train with Hock though and Lyndon J. helped me with teaching a segment on the Tapi drill at Hock's Arch. Combatives camp.  But to my knowledge we (you and and I) haven't met yet.  Maybe sometime in the future at one of Hock's seminars we can hook up.

Mark L.


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## Guro Harold

The Boar Man said:
			
		

> Palusut
> 
> No sorry your thinking of another guy.  I do train with Hock though and Lyndon J. helped me with teaching a segment on the Tapi drill at Hock's Arch. Combatives camp.  But to my knowledge we (you and and I) haven't met yet.  Maybe sometime in the future at one of Hock's seminars we can hook up.
> 
> Mark L.



Hi Mark,

No we have not met but Lyndon has spoken highly of you.  Look forward to meeting you in the future.

Best regards,

Harold


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## Mark Lynn

Palusut said:
			
		

> Hi Mark,
> 
> No we have not met but Lyndon has spoken highly of you.  Look forward to meeting you in the future.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Harold



Same here.  Hey I'm planning on making the Kansas seminar with Dr. Remy, come on out than we can be training partner's.  At least I know I would have someone skilled to work with.

Lyndon is a great guy good to demo with.

mark


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## Guro Harold

Hi Mark,

Unfortunately I won't be able to make it to Kansas but I am sure it will be an awesome event.

Best regards,

Harold


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## Cruentus

Palusut said:
			
		

> Hi Mark,
> 
> From what I have heard true crossada is considered as a seperate sub-system.  It appeared to me that the Professor presented the subsystems as striking styles and presented techniques based on the striking styles.



I agree!  :asian:


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## Mark Lynn

The Boar Man said:
			
		

> Hi Paul
> 
> Could it be that they came seperate with no connection between them until later.
> 
> GM Remy told me that he would travel around and fight other escrima players (teachers) from this area or that and take the esscence of their style and incorperate it into his own.  Could this not be two movements (b y b and crossada) of two different styles that share some same movements during the course of their execution.
> 
> For instance there is the abaniko system, the up and down system, etc. etc. and I think that the crossada and the b y b were styles of play as well.  After GM Remy incorperated them into MA now we on the other end say hey if we do this or that or insert this or that then we have this technique.  I mean the up and down method is just b y b on it's side without the wrist twist, or Rompedia done horizontally instead of vertically.
> 
> (My wife came in and discussed the family resposnibilities of the day, totally braking my concentration on the point I was trying to make.)
> 
> The banda y banda movement is common in many systems, the crossada is common in many systems, to me they are seperate, taught as seperate techniques.  No disrespect intended and maybe I'm reading to much into the way the thread is going.  If so I apologize.
> Mark



OK I'm wrong here

At the MARRIPO seminar last weekend I asked Dr. Remy about this, in fact about banda y banda, crossada (kruzada? I think on their tapes it's spelled like this, however in the book it's spelled like crossada), etc. etc. he told me the following.

He went back to the Philippines and decided to check this out (the terms and such) and he found out that when the art was first started that his father was not real good with names and such so his mother (who was an educator) named the techniques.  In fact prior to their printing of the first book there was names pre say for these techniques.  So she came up with the names based on movement not styles of arnis play.

Banday banda is a side to side movement, so if you do a crossada block and then pass the technique off to the side and return with a side to side motion then the technique could include actually three movements (that before I thought were styles); crossada (block), palis palis (going with the force the passing motion) and banda y banda the side to side motion.

So we did some techniques off of the roof / umbrella block and the slanting block, but then he would refer to them as palis palis and such in the way that you treated the strike not the method of the block or what the block looked like.

All of this was news to me.  I have to run to the store for dinner.

Mark


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