# Having trouble picking an art and school in Dallas. Need advice.



## Brandon Miller (Mar 6, 2019)

I currently reside in Dallas and I’m wanting to get back into martial arts as a hobby for fitness and self defense. I’m torn on training in Kyokushin at Dallas Kyokushin which is 13 miles away  Learn Karate in Dallas, Texas | Dallas Kyokushin Karate. Also I’m torn at training in freestyle judo at the Judokai which is 16 miles awayThe Judokai - Dallas and Granbury Judo / JiuJitsu / Wrestling. The third place is a Sambo club in Arlington which is about 23 miles from me.   https://www.sambotexas.com/. Kyokushin is $80/month, Fresstyle Judo is $75 a month. Sambo is $95 a month. All schools offer training 3 times a week. If I could I would train in all three but time and finances are preventing me from doing so. What should I choose? I like all three schools. I want to get into either Kickboxing competitively or mma possibly in the future. I have a boxing and competitive mma background but stopped due to other life adventures. I’m 32 I’m 6’3” 225lbs athlete most of my life. Thanks for the advice guys! 
I definitely plan on crosstraining down the road but right now I can only choose one art to dedicate myself in right now. I plan on boxing on the side with whichever art I end up choosing.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Mar 6, 2019)

What do you expect to get from this that you havent gotten from your last few posts? If you started training after your first post asking kyokushin vs judo, youd be a couple months better at whichever one you choose.


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## Brandon Miller (Mar 6, 2019)

kempodisciple said:


> What do you expect to get from this that you havent gotten from your last few posts? If you started training after your first post asking kyokushin vs judo, youd be a couple months better at whichever one you choose.


Terrific response. The whole “ Go and try a free class at each” advice didn’t really help me. I like all three schools I’d train at all three if I could. My experience with kyokushin was it was a good workout but perhaps an art that is slow in progression might bore me. I like grappling because you learn effective techniques right away. I start next week so I have some decisions to make. I’m leaning towards freestyle judo. I see it as a damn near perfect grappling system for MMA with the freestyle judo competition rule set.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Mar 6, 2019)

If kyokushin bores you go with judo. But be aware it will take a while to get used to. Depending on the sambo school, itll either be basically judo with more focus on the ground, or almost MMA. Up to you whether you want an art that focuses mostly on throws, to combine with your boxing/kickboxing, or if you want a school that combines them with a focus on grappling. (Generalizations of styles, individual schools may vary)


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## Brandon Miller (Mar 6, 2019)

kempodisciple said:


> If kyokushin bores you go with judo. But be aware it will take a while to get used to. Depending on the sambo school, itll either be basically judo with more focus on the ground, or almost MMA. Up to you whether you want an art that focuses mostly on throws, to combine with your boxing/kickboxing, or if you want a school that combines them with a focus on grappling. (Generalizations of styles, individual schools may vary)


Yeah I agree with what you just stated. The judo school is basically judo/wrestling/bjj combined. The Sambo school is a sport Sambo school but they do a little combat sambo as well from my understanding. It seems as sambo and freestyle judo are very similar. My only worry if I choose Sambo is that sambo schools aren’t everywhere so if I ended up moving I wouldn’t prob find a sambo place since only 8 to 10 sambo schools exist in the United States. One thing I like about the judo school is that they host freestyle judo tournaments.


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## KenpoMaster805 (Mar 6, 2019)

Go American Kenpo karate


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Mar 6, 2019)

KenpoMaster805 said:


> Go American Kenpo karate


Do you even read the posts you respond to?


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## drop bear (Mar 6, 2019)

Sambo should give most bang for buck. Depending if the school is good.


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## Brandon Miller (Mar 7, 2019)

drop bear said:


> Sambo should give most bang for buck. Depending if the school is good.


Www.sambotexas.com


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## Tony Dismukes (Mar 7, 2019)

All other factors being equal, I'd go with the Sambo. Good Sambo schools are hard to find in the U.S., so you might as well take advantage of the opportunity while you have it.  If you move later on to an area without Sambo, your experience will carry over well into Judo or BJJ.


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## Deleted member 39746 (Mar 7, 2019)

Cowboyery is always good.   (i couldn't resit)

Yeah Sambo is pretty uncommon i have seen that myself. So if its something you want to do, do that first at least.


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## Yokozuna514 (Mar 7, 2019)

Brandon Miller said:


> Terrific response. The whole “ Go and try a free class at each” advice didn’t really help me. I like all three schools I’d train at all three if I could. My experience with kyokushin was it was a good workout but perhaps an art that is slow in progression might bore me. I like grappling because you learn effective techniques right away. I start next week so I have some decisions to make. I’m leaning towards freestyle judo. I see it as a damn near perfect grappling system for MMA with the freestyle judo competition rule set.


I would be partial to Kyokushin although I think all the styles you are interested in will give you a good work out.   Kyokushin may have a larger footprint so if you do move, the chances of you finding a Kyokushin or offshoot school is very promising.   Good luck and keep us posted.


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## Headhunter (Mar 7, 2019)

Pick one go there if you like it stay there if you don't move on to the next choice


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## Headhunter (Mar 7, 2019)

kempodisciple said:


> Do you even read the posts you respond to?


Yeah that person doesn't seem to offer much useful advice and just tells everyone to go train their style


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## Headhunter (Mar 7, 2019)

Brandon Miller said:


> Terrific response. The whole “ Go and try a free class at each” advice didn’t really help me. I like all three schools I’d train at all three if I could. My experience with kyokushin was it was a good workout but perhaps an art that is slow in progression might bore me. I like grappling because you learn effective techniques right away. I start next week so I have some decisions to make. I’m leaning towards freestyle judo. I see it as a damn near perfect grappling system for MMA with the freestyle judo competition rule set.


Judo is not perfect for mma because judo doesn't deal with punches and kicks and knees and elbows. You want to get good for mma then go train at an mma gym


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## JR 137 (Mar 7, 2019)

kempodisciple said:


> Do you even read the posts you respond to?


I’m pretty sure he read it thoroughly. And came to his unbiased recommendation because it is the best art there is.


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## Headhunter (Mar 7, 2019)

kempodisciple said:


> What do you expect to get from this that you havent gotten from your last few posts? If you started training after your first post asking kyokushin vs judo, youd be a couple months better at whichever one you choose.


I honestly don't understand this whole having to ask everyone advice. When I first started I decided I wanted to train found a gym got on the phone to the boss turned up to class and trained. If I liked I came back next lesson if I didn't I looked for a new place simple.


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## Headhunter (Mar 7, 2019)

KenpoMaster805 said:


> Go American Kenpo karate


Why would he? When there's no kenpo schools in his area?


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## JR 137 (Mar 7, 2019)

Headhunter said:


> Why would he? When there's no kenpo schools in his area?


Have you ever seen him post anything else?

And Dallas is a major metropolitan area, so I’m quite sure there’s an American Kenpo school somewhere relatively close.


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## Brandon Miller (Mar 8, 2019)

Yokozuna514 said:


> I would be partial to Kyokushin although I think all the styles you are interested in will give you a good work out.   Kyokushin may have a larger footprint so if you do move, the chances of you finding a Kyokushin or offshoot school is very promising.   Good luck and keep us posted.


What separates kyokushin from the other arts I mentioned?


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## Brandon Miller (Mar 8, 2019)

JR 137 said:


> Have you ever seen him post anything else?
> 
> And Dallas is a major metropolitan area, so I’m quite sure there’s an American Kenpo school somewhere relatively close.


I don’t think I’m really interested in kenpo. I’m more into a grappling art or full contact stand up art like Kyokushin or its off shoots.


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## Brandon Miller (Mar 8, 2019)

Do you guys think Kyokushin and boxing is a good combo to train?


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## Tony Dismukes (Mar 8, 2019)

Brandon Miller said:


> Do you guys think Kyokushin and boxing is a good combo to train?


Only once you have a solid foundation in one or the other. For a beginner I think there’s too much overlap and contradictions within that overlap.

You’ve been asking advice for a while and have gotten plenty of feedback. You have some good options to choose fro. Go ahead and sign up for one of those schools. If you can’t decide, go with the one that’s closer to your house. If they’re tied for distance, go with the one that’s cheaper. If they’re tied on that, then flip a coin or roll a die. 

Get in there, train, and see how you like it. If you train at one school for a while and realize you don’t enjoy it, there’s nothing stopping you from switching to another school or another art.


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## Brandon Miller (Mar 8, 2019)

Tony Dismukes said:


> Only once you have a solid foundation in one or the other. For a beginner I think there’s too much overlap and contradictions within that overlap.
> 
> You’ve been asking advice for a while and have gotten plenty of feedback. You have some good options to choose fro. Go ahead and sign up for one of those schools. If you can’t decide, go with the one that’s closer to your house. If they’re tied for distance, go with the one that’s cheaper. If they’re tied on that, then flip a coin or roll a die.
> 
> Get in there, train, and see how you like it. If you train at one school for a while and realize you don’t enjoy it, there’s nothing stopping you from switching to another school or another art.


I have competed in Amatuer boxing and Amatuer mma along with no gi bjj comp. the kyokushin school is the closest school to me. I think I might go with kyokushin since it’s the closest school to me. Blend it with boxing on the side and jump into the kickboxing scene. Then later down the road as a hobbyist I’ll pick up a grappling art while I still stay active in kyokushin.


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## Yokozuna514 (Mar 8, 2019)

Brandon Miller said:


> What separates kyokushin from the other arts I mentioned?


To be clear, I have trained in Judo and Kyokushin but have never studied Sambo.  From what I understand Sambo is a full contact sport so I expect it will require you to get in good physical condition to participate fully.   Judo is also a great sport that requires its practitioners to be in good physical shape to be able to perform the techniques against non-compliant opponents.   Neither Judo nor Sambo require you to work on katas or forms.   

What separates Kyokushin from the the other arts is that Kyokushin has a sport side as well as a non-sport side.   The curriculum is such that anyone from the age fo 4 to 64 (or older) can continue to train in aspects of the art.   Sure you could probably say the same for judo and sambo but I am not sure how many people over the age of 40 still participate in either sport.   You still see many 40+ veterans competing at Kyokushin tournaments either in kata, semi-knockdown or knockdown at the local, regional and sometimes at the national level (if the category exists).   There are also millions of people training in Kyokushin all over the world so the chances of finding another Kyokushin or offshoot dojo is very good.  

Like I said, I am partial to Kyokushin.  To me, it has all the elements that I want out of a MA.  I bring my dogi with me where ever I travel because I know I can typically find a dojo in the city where I can train and generally folks are happy to train with others especially if they come from another country.


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## JR 137 (Mar 8, 2019)

Brandon Miller said:


> I don’t think I’m really interested in kenpo. I’m more into a grappling art or full contact stand up art like Kyokushin or its off shoots.


My post you quoted was in response to the guy who’s posted practically nothing but “train American Kenpo” and not towards you.


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## Brandon Miller (Mar 8, 2019)

Yokozuna514 said:


> To be clear, I have trained in Judo and Kyokushin but have never studied Sambo.  From what I understand Sambo is a full contact sport so I expect it will require you to get in good physical condition to participate fully.   Judo is also a great sport that requires its practitioners to be in good physical shape to be able to perform the techniques against non-compliant opponents.   Neither Judo nor Sambo require you to work on katas or forms.
> 
> What separates Kyokushin from the the other arts is that Kyokushin has a sport side as well as a non-sport side.   The curriculum is such that anyone from the age fo 4 to 64 (or older) can continue to train in aspects of the art.   Sure you could probably say the same for judo and sambo but I am not sure how many people over the age of 40 still participate in either sport.   You still see many 40+ veterans competing at Kyokushin tournaments either in kata, semi-knockdown or knockdown at the local, regional and sometimes at the national level (if the category exists).   There are also millions of people training in Kyokushin all over the world so the chances of finding another Kyokushin or offshoot dojo is very good.
> 
> Like I said, I am partial to Kyokushin.  To me, it has all the elements that I want out of a MA.  I bring my dogi with me where ever I travel because I know I can typically find a dojo in the city where I can train and generally folks are happy to train with others especially if they come from another country.


Very well said. I agree with you on for the most part you can find a kyokushin dojo or an off shoot in most cities so the availability to train wherever you go is good. I’m a huge fan of kyokushin. I took a few Classes at Dallas Kyokushin where I live and I like the balance of the art as well it definitely satisfies my needs in wanting an art that toughens you up and gives you a good balance of tradition and hard contact and sparring. I’m thinking I’m going to choose to go back to the Kyokushin school since it’s the closest school to me in the list of schools I mentioned above in my original post. I’m going to take a long life journey in Kyokushin and cross train with some boxing on the side and try and compete in knockdown as well as kickboxing while I’m still in my early 30’s. When I’m done competing I’ll pick up a grappling art as a hobbyist and cross train that while I continue my Kyokushin journey into my later years. I think that’s a good plan for me.


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## Yokozuna514 (Mar 8, 2019)

Brandon Miller said:


> Do you guys think Kyokushin and boxing is a good combo to train?


It can be.  I know a few folks that crosstrain both.  Something to consider is that there is no face punching in Kyokushin and there are typically no gloves worn in knockdown (the only equipment you can wear is a mouthpiece and a cup).   Boxing also encourages level changes that can be a disaster in Kyokushin as this can result to bringing the head closer to kicking range.   I wouldn't discourage the cross training in both but you need know that the reflexes developed in boxing may not good good for Kyokushin and vice versa.   You will need to keep them separate if you want to do well in both at the same time.


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## Yokozuna514 (Mar 8, 2019)

Brandon Miller said:


> Very well said. I agree with you on for the most part you can find a kyokushin dojo or an off shoot in most cities so the availability to train wherever you go is good. I’m a huge fan of kyokushin. I took a few Classes at Dallas Kyokushin where I live and I like the balance of the art as well it definitely satisfies my needs in wanting an art that toughens you up and gives you a good balance of tradition and hard contact and sparring. I’m thinking I’m going to choose to go back to the Kyokushin school since it’s the closest school to me in the list of schools I mentioned above in my original post. I’m going to take a long life journey in Kyokushin and cross train with some boxing on the side and try and compete in knockdown as well as kickboxing while I’m still in my early 30’s. When I’m done competing I’ll pick up a grappling art as a hobbyist and cross train that while I continue my Kyokushin journey into my later years. I think that’s a good plan for me.


Sounds like a good direction and look forward to following your Kyokushin journey.   You never know, perhaps we will meet up in a tournament one day.   I have met a few people from the old Kyokushin4life forum and it is always interesting to train with people that you have spoken with on the interwebs.    Good luck with the training !


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## JR 137 (Mar 8, 2019)

Yokozuna514 said:


> Sounds like a good direction and look forward to following your Kyokushin journey.   You never know, perhaps we will meet up in a tournament one day.   I have met a few people from the old Kyokushin4life forum and it is always interesting to train with people that you have spoken with on the interwebs.    Good luck with the training !


There were a lot of good people on that forum. No idea why people stopped posting. At the end it was pretty much me and one other guy (Sasha?) posting. I went to log in one day and it said the website no longer existed. A shame really. There was a lot of great information in the archives that I’d like to read and reference.


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## JR 137 (Mar 8, 2019)

@Brandon Miller keep in mind a lot of very successful kickboxers came from Kyokushin. Perhaps the best of them all, Andy Hug was a Kyokushin guy. He left Kyokushin and went to Seidokaikan (not Seido Juku, aka Seido) simply because Kyokushin had (or possibly still has) the rule that forbids them from fighting for money. I think that rule has been eliminated because Fransisco Filho has competed professionally and is still active in Kyokushin.


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## Brandon Miller (Mar 8, 2019)

JR 137 said:


> @Brandon Miller keep in mind a lot of very successful kickboxers came from Kyokushin. Perhaps the best of them all, Andy Hug was a Kyokushin guy. He left Kyokushin and went to Seidokaikan (not Seido Juku, aka Seido) simply because Kyokushin had (or possibly still has) the rule that forbids them from fighting for money. I think that rule has been eliminated because Fransisco Filho has competed professionally and is still active in Kyokushin.


Yes. I see kyokushin being a terrific base going into kickboxing competition.  I feel if I compliment my kyokushin with boxing on the side I should do really well especially since I have competed in every combat sport on an Amatuer level except I have never competed in straight kickboxing before.


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## Deleted member 39746 (Mar 8, 2019)

Brandon Miller said:


> Do you guys think Kyokushin and boxing is a good combo to train?



without getting into the base thing, there are better kickboxing styles which blend boxing better in them than the traditional asian ones.

So if that is a goal it might be a good idea to look for generic kickboxing schools.  (i dont know how U.S boxing differs from U.K though)
This isnt a experts view, but the  base of Savate seems to be hands are a mix of Anglo and french boxing and kicks come from where ever so obviously works better than doing TKD to get your kicks blended in easier and faster.     Just a example anyway. 

(but then nothing says you cant do that anyway, its more efficiency and speed)

Not insulting the Asian styles anyway.

edit: also worth noting, bartisu merged Boxing, savate, jujitsu and i think mainly vigny cane fighting.  And that seems to have worked pretty well.


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## frank raud (Mar 9, 2019)

Rat said:


> without getting into the base thing, there are better kickboxing styles which blend boxing better in them than the traditional asian ones.
> 
> So if that is a goal it might be a good idea to look for generic kickboxing schools.  (i dont know how U.S boxing differs from U.K though)
> This isnt a experts view, but the  base of Savate seems to be hands are a mix of Anglo and french boxing and kicks come from where ever so obviously works better than doing TKD to get your kicks blended in easier and faster.     Just a example anyway.
> ...


  Bartitsu worked pretty well? Honestly, in what context? And are you referring to Classical Bartitsu, of a 100 years ago, or the neo-bartitsu?


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## Deleted member 39746 (Mar 10, 2019)

frank raud said:


> Bartitsu worked pretty well? Honestly, in what context? And are you referring to Classical Bartitsu, of a 100 years ago, or the neo-bartitsu?



I would say classical, but it wasnt exactly prolific.   Plus if it was prolific it would mean the trump card of Juijitsu didnt work so well as a lot of people would know it and thus should know how to counter it. 


Neo seems better as some have incorporated modern and improved training methods and tactics to it.   And applying modern science to it. I think the goal is to keep the atmosphere of the classical one while improving it where they can.


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## JR 137 (Mar 10, 2019)

Rat said:


> I would say classical, but it wasnt exactly prolific.   Plus if it was prolific it would mean the trump card of Juijitsu didnt work so well as a lot of people would know it and thus should know how to counter it.
> 
> 
> Neo seems better as some have incorporated modern and improved training methods and tactics to it.   And applying modern science to it. I think the goal is to keep the atmosphere of the classical one while improving it where they can.


Shouldn’t every art try to do this? At least without making said art unrecognizable from its origins.


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## Deleted member 39746 (Mar 10, 2019)

JR 137 said:


> Shouldn’t every art try to do this? At least without making said art unrecognizable from its origins.



They should, doesn't mean all of them do.  

I would say most modern styles are unrecognizable unless they were made in the 50's. 


I am a big supporter of using what works for you and disregarding what doesn't, which requires studying in a few styles unless it supports it.  (thats at least whats accredited to JKD philosophy by most)


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## JR 137 (Mar 10, 2019)

Rat said:


> They should, doesn't mean all of them do.
> 
> I would say most modern styles are unrecognizable unless they were made in the 50's.
> 
> ...


I agree and disagree with using what works for you and discarding what doesn’t. Some things need far more skill and practice to actually work for you. Some things seem like they’ll never work for you, then somehow you find yourself using it at a random time. Other things don’t make sense until years later it just clicks because you finally looked at it the right way.

There were plenty of times I used a wrestling move in a match that I didn’t use much in practice because I couldn’t get it to work during practice and/or didn’t think I could pull it off. Sometimes stuff just has a way of working without thinking about it. Within reason of course; I’m not talking about doing backflip kicks here.


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## Deleted member 39746 (Mar 10, 2019)

JR 137 said:


> I agree and disagree with using what works for you and discarding what doesn’t. Some things need far more skill and practice to actually work for you. Some things seem like they’ll never work for you, then somehow you find yourself using it at a random time. Other things don’t make sense until years later it just clicks because you finally looked at it the right way.
> 
> There were plenty of times I used a wrestling move in a match that I didn’t use much in practice because I couldn’t get it to work during practice and/or didn’t think I could pull it off. Sometimes stuff just has a way of working without thinking about it. Within reason of course; I’m not talking about doing backflip kicks here.




I would also extend and say some styles and teacher are up for more deviation in how you do things than others. so they facilitate you finding your style better.    Some would shut down any deviation from the norm and the like. 


Also a amusing example i have is a historical youtuber who does HEMA and he literally leans back to avoid swords now and then and it works for him. (given he has a reach advantage sometimes)    Kind of that suck in the gut one. 

So the dispute there is, why should he stop doing it if it works for him?


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## frank raud (Mar 10, 2019)

Rat said:


> I would say classical, but it wasnt exactly prolific.   Plus if it was prolific it would mean the trump card of Juijitsu didnt work so well as a lot of people would know it and thus should know how to counter it.
> 
> 
> Neo seems better as some have incorporated modern and improved training methods and tactics to it.   And applying modern science to it. I think the goal is to keep the atmosphere of the classical one while improving it where they can.


  If the classical was efficient, why did no instructor continue to teach a semblance of Bartitsu after the breakup of the club in 1902? The only influence I can think of off the top of my head is Cherpillod teaching jiu jitsu when he returned to Switzerland. Tani and Uyenishi continued to teach jiu jitsu, Vigny the cane and savate. No student that I know of attempted to continue the art. It was a great experiment that died when the club ceased to exist.


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## JR 137 (Mar 10, 2019)

Rat said:


> I would also extend and say some styles and teacher are up for more deviation in how you do things than others. so they facilitate you finding your style better.    Some would shut down any deviation from the norm and the like.
> 
> 
> Also a amusing example i have is a historical youtuber who does HEMA and he literally leans back to avoid swords now and then and it works for him. (given he has a reach advantage sometimes)    Kind of that suck in the gut one.
> ...


Sure some teachers want something done exactly as taught. But more often than not, that is due to the rank/experience of the student. You shouldn’t start changing things too much until you’ve got a good understanding of it. 

As far as why should that guy change what he’s doing even though it’s completely the opposite of what he should do (I don’t know HEMA, so it’s an assumption)? He may very well be getting away with it against lesser opponents and will pay the price against better opponents. I had a baseball player at a college I worked at who was the best hitter I’ve seen. Set all kinds of HR and hitting records. Actually, he buried every record. Despite this and the fact that he was a Div 1 player, he didn’t get drafted. According to a scout that used to come around often, he refused to change his swing. He was obviously too good at the level he was playing at, but the scout said he wouldn’t touch the ball at the next level if he kept swinging like he was. Sure enough he was signed to an independent league team and went 0 for however many dozen at bats. Other than a couple walks, he didn’t reach first base in the 2 months or so he was playing before he was cut. The only reason he lasted that long was he was a very good outfielder. 

Perhaps that’s the case with that guy. Or he’s so good at everything else that he can afford to do that. Or it really works for him and no one else.


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## Steve (Mar 10, 2019)

Allen Mohler mma is legit.  Guy is old school BJJ.  Been at it a long time.


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