# Kali/Escrima/Arnis



## Bob Hubbard

From the rec.martialarts FAQ

(Contributor: Andy Maddox - modsox@clark.net)

Intro:

Kali, Escrima, and Arnis are all terms for the native fighting arts of
the Philippines, specifically the arts that use weapons.

Arnis is a Northern Term, Escrima more Central, and Kali is from the
South. In this view, the terms just refer to indigenous weapons
fighting systems. Arnis would be the term used in Northern Luzon,
Escrima from Manila through the central islands, and Kali on Mindanao.
People who use this definition tend to say that the words don't
matter - every village, and often every master, has a distinct style,
and that's what the important thing is - "do you study Illustrisimo,
Caballero, or Cabales style?"  Not "do you study escrima or kali?"

Origin:         The Phillipines

History:

Kali is an older art than Escrima or Arnis, and more comprehensive.
Escrima and Arnis were developed as streamlined, simplified ways to
teach people to fight the Spanish invaders.  Hence, Kali is more of a
"warrior's art" while Escrima and Arnis are "soldier's arts".  Kali is
usually considered to have 12 areas of combat, with Escrima containing
8 or 9 of them, and Arnis 4 to 6.

Description:

The "full" coverage alluded to above usually contains the following:

      1   Single Stick (or long blade)
      2   Double long weapon
      3   Long & Short (sword & dagger, e.g.)
      4   Single dagger
      5   Double Dagger
      6   Palm Stick/Double-end Dagger
      7   Empty Hands (punching, kicking, grappling)
      8   Spear/Staff, long weapons (two-handed)
      9   Flexible weapons (whip, sarong, etc.)
     10   Throwing weapons
     11   Projectile weapons (bows, blowguns)
     12   Healing arts

A further distinction that some people make is to say that Kali is, at
its heart, a blade art, while Escrima and Arnis are designed to work
with sticks.  This is a matter of some contention among practitioners
of the various styles and schools.

A distinctive feature of all of these Filipino arts is their use of
geometry. In strikes/defenses and movement, lines and angles are very
important. In addition, the independent use of the hands, or hands and
feet, to do two different things at the same time, is a high-level
skill sought after a fair amount of experience.

Training:

Filipino styles normally classify attacks not by their weapon, or
their delivery style, but by the direction of their energy - for
example, a strike to the head is usually analyzed in terms of "a high
lateral strike." A punch to the gut is treated much the same as a
straight knife thrust to that region would be. Students learn how to
deal with the energy of the attack, and then apply that knowledge to
the slight variations that come with different lengths and types of
weapons.

Filipino arts place great emphasis on footwork, mobility, and body
positioning. The same concepts (of angles of attack, deflections,
traps, passes, etc.) are applied to similar situations at different
ranges, making the understanding of ranges and how to bridge them very
important. The Filipinos make extensive use of geometric shapes,
superimposing them on a combat situation, and movement patterns, to
teach fighters to use their position and their movement to best
advantage. Some styles emphasize line-cutting (a la Wing Chun), while
some are very circular (like Aikido). Some like to stay at long range,
some will move inside as soon as possible. These differences are hotly
debated, as are most things, but they all work differently for
different people.

Most Filipino arts, but Kali in particular, stress the importance of
disarming an opponent in combat. This is not usually done gently, but
by destroying an attacking weapon (break the hand, and the stick will
fall.)

Sub-Styles: Latosa Escrima, Serrada Escrima, and others.


----------



## Bob Hubbard

From the Rec.Martial-arts FAQ
=====================

*Kali/Escrima/Arnis*
(Contributors:
Andy Maddox - modsox@clark.net
Russ Rader - rlrader@ix.netcom.com
Tim Rivera - river@umr.edu) 

Intro:
Kali, Escrima, and Arnis are all terms for the native fighting arts of the Philippines, specifically the arts that use weapons. 'Arnis' and 'Escrima' (or 'Eskrima') are words rooted in Spanish, while 'Kali' shows up in various pre-Spanish Pilipino dialects. 

Some authorities say that Arnis is a term used in the northern parts of Luzon Island, Escrima or Eskrima is used more commonly in the middle parts of the Philippines, such as Cebu City, and Kali is used in the southern island of Mindanao. Some of those who say that Kali is the term for the southern styles claim that, since Mindanao was never conquered by the Spanish to the extent that the rest of the Philippines was, Kali more closely resembles the original pre-Spanish arts of the area, and is more "complete" (covers more combative possibilities). 

There are also some who claim that the word Kali is part of a modern attempt to marginalize the Spanish (and other European) influence on Filipino martial arts, and some go so far as to refer to Kali as a "Filipino-American" style. 

However, most people tend to say that the words don't matter - every village, and often every master, has a distinct style, and that's what the important thing is - "do you study Illustrisimo, Caballero, or Cabales style?" Not "do you study escrima or kali?" 

Origin:
The Phillipines 
History:
Filipino martial arts are the result of the interaction of Spanish and possibly Italian and other European styles of sword-fighting (cut and thrust rather than fencing, probably) with the native arts that existed at the time. Although the European influence is probably mostly Spanish, there is some evidence of Italian and possibly other European mercenaries present in the Phillippines, and they probably used (and possibly taught) their own native fighting styles. 

The most popular legend concerning the Filipino arts is that Datu (Chief) Lapu Lapu killed the Spanish explorer Ferdinand Magellan in personal combat. 

Description: 
There are many different styles of Filipino martial arts, but general categories can be drawn along the lines of range. Largo Mano styles tend to prefer staying at long distance from their opponents, and using well-timed and placed strikes to the hands of their opponents to disarm them. Corto or Serrada styles are the opposite, tending to crowd into their opponents, where the opponent will hopefully be uncomfortable and unprepared, while the Serrada practitioner, by virtue of his practice, will feel at home at this range. Other styles prefer the medio, or middle range, which is between Largo Mano and Serrada. There are also styles, such as Lameco Escrima, that address all three ranges. The name Lameco even comes from these ranges; (La)rgo Mano, (Me)dio, and (Co)rto. 

The different Filipino styles typically cover some (or all) of the following areas:
1 Single Stick (or long blade) 2 Double long weapon 3 Long & Short (sword & dagger, e.g.) 4 Single dagger 5 Double Dagger 6 Palm Stick/Double-end Dagger 7 Empty Hands (punching, kicking, grappling) 8 Spear/Staff, long weapons (two-handed) 9 Flexible weapons (whip, sarong, etc.) 10 Throwing weapons 11 Projectile weapons (bows, blowguns) 12 Healing arts 

A further distinction that some people make is that some Filipino styles are, at their heart, blade arts, while others are designed to work with sticks. There are some arts, such as Sayoc Kali, that focus on the knife almost exclusively, while there are others, such as some lineages of Balintawak Eskrima, that focus almost entirely on the single stick. This focus in certain lineages or styles may be the origin of the notion that Kali is more "complete" than Arnis or Escrima. However, this is a matter of some contention. 

A distinctive feature of all of these Filipino arts is their use of geometry. In strikes/defenses and movement, lines and angles are very important. In addition, the independent use of the hands, or hands and feet, to do two different things at the same time, is a high-level skill sought after a fair amount of experience. 

Training:
Filipino styles normally classify attacks not by their weapon, or their delivery style, but by the direction of their energy - for example, a strike to the head is usually analyzed in terms of "a high lateral strike." A punch to the gut is treated much the same as a straight knife thrust to that region would be. Students learn how to deal with the energy of the attack, and then apply that knowledge to the slight variations that come with different lengths and types of weapons. 

Filipino arts place great emphasis on footwork, mobility, and body positioning. The same concepts (of angles of attack, deflections, traps, passes, etc.) are applied to similar situations at different ranges, making the understanding of ranges and how to bridge them very important. The Filipinos make extensive use of geometric shapes, superimposing them on a combat situation, and movement patterns, to teach fighters to use their position and their movement to best advantage. Some styles emphasize line-cutting (a la Wing Chun), while some are very circular (like Aikido). Some like to stay at long range, some will move inside as soon as possible. These differences are hotly debated, as are most things, but they all work differently for different people. 

Most Filipino arts stress the importance of disarming an opponent in combat. This is not usually done gently, or by using a complex disarm (although these are taught), but by "destroying" the hand holding the attacking weapon using your weapon (break the hand, and the stick will fall.) This is often referred to as "de-fanging the snake", since a poisonous snake that has no fangs cannot harm you. 

Sub-Styles:
Latosa Escrima, Serrada Escrima, Dumog, Panandiakman, Panantukan, Sikaran, Balintawak Eskrima, Modern Arnis, Garimot Arnis, Inosanto/LaCoste Kali, Sayoc Kali, Doce Pares, Pekiti-Tirsia Kali, many more.


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## lhommedieu

test


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## Rich Parsons

> _Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz _
> 
> *From the Rec.Martial-arts FAQ
> =====================
> 
> Kali/Escrima/Arnis
> (Contributors:
> Andy Maddox - modsox@clark.net
> Russ Rader - rlrader@ix.netcom.com
> Tim Rivera - river@umr.edu)
> 
> Intro: . . .
> 
> There are also some who claim that the word Kali is part of a modern attempt to marginalize the Spanish (and other European) influence on Filipino martial arts, and some go so far as to refer to Kali as a "Filipino-American" style.
> 
> However, most people tend to say that the words don't matter - every village, and often every master, has a distinct style, and that's what the important thing is - "do you study Illustrisimo, Caballero, or Cabales style?" Not "do you study escrima or kali?"
> . . .
> 
> Sub-Styles:
> Latosa Escrima, Serrada Escrima, Dumog, Panandiakman, Panantukan, Sikaran, Balintawak Eskrima, Modern Arnis, Garimot Arnis, Inosanto/LaCoste Kali, Sayoc Kali, Doce Pares, Pekiti-Tirsia Kali, many more. *




This belief or sentiment is becoming the more popular belief/idea/theory, as more people who travel to the Republic of the Philippine Islands and ask questions of the living Masters their.

Kaith - Good information thanks for the posts.

Rich


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## Brother John

This is THE BEST explanation I've ever heard of these fine arts.
THanks for you work.
Your Brother
John


----------



## modarnis

The following is a short excerpt from an article by Grandmaster Dionisio Canete titled the History of Arnis.  This was published in a souvenier edition of Arnisador magazine in 1995:

" Arnis, the only known traditional Filipino Martial Arts, has its roots deep in the culture and history of the Filipino people.  The exact date of its origin, however, remains unclear.  Traces of historical evidence reveal that this manly art of self defence-involving the use of a single stick, two sticks, a long and a short stick, a dagger, or some other blunt instrument, no doubt existed long before the arrival of the first Spanish colonizers in the country.

The first known Filipino hero, Lapulapu, was believed to  be one of the foremost masters of Arnis, which was known at that time in the native dialect as pangamut.  In fact, LapuLapu had vigorously trained and prepared his men for 'showdown' fights against his enemies long before his historic battle with Ferdinand Magellan  on April 27, 1521, in Mactan Island"

This of course contadicts the previous information presented, along with the original history I was presented with.  Remy Presas' Modern Arnis Philippine Martial Art (the pink book) gives a great overview of historical background, more in line with the previous posts. 

Geography, language and culture in the different regions  of the archepeligo seem to support this theory.  In that analysis, the origin of the word Arnis as we use it today comes much later than Grandmaster Canete would have us believe.

I guess this is one of the major problems with a culture that lacked a great written tradition, the difficulty of finding academic support to answer questions


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## modarnis

The first couple of Chapters of Mark Wiley's Filipino Martial Culture illustrate the difficulty in tracing FMA's from a more academic perspective.  This book is a good place to begin because it defines the major regions, time periods and players


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## MartialArtist

Great info


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## Mormegil

> _Originally posted by modarnis _
> *The following is a short excerpt from an article by Grandmaster Dionisio Canete titled the History of Arnis.  This was published in a souvenier edition of Arnisador magazine in 1995:
> 
> " Arnis, the only known traditional Filipino Martial Arts, has its roots deep in the culture and history of the Filipino people.  The exact date of its origin, however, remains unclear.  Traces of historical evidence reveal that this manly art of self defence-involving the use of a single stick, two sticks, a long and a short stick, a dagger, or some other blunt instrument, no doubt existed long before the arrival of the first Spanish colonizers in the country.
> 
> The first known Filipino hero, Lapulapu, was believed to  be one of the foremost masters of Arnis, which was known at that time in the native dialect as pangamut.  In fact, LapuLapu had vigorously trained and prepared his men for 'showdown' fights against his enemies long before his historic battle with Ferdinand Magellan  on April 27, 1521, in Mactan Island"
> 
> This of course contadicts the previous information presented, along with the original history I was presented with.  Remy Presas' Modern Arnis Philippine Martial Art (the pink book) gives a great overview of historical background, more in line with the previous posts.
> 
> Geography, language and culture in the different regions  of the archepeligo seem to support this theory.  In that analysis, the origin of the word Arnis as we use it today comes much later than Grandmaster Canete would have us believe.
> 
> I guess this is one of the major problems with a culture that lacked a great written tradition, the difficulty of finding academic support to answer questions *



If you speaking Tagalog or Pilipino, you will call FMA "Arnis."  I don't think he's making the distinction of Nothern, Central or Southern in this case.  He was probably being inclusive of all the FMAs, or at least the fencing styles.


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## moromoro

"and some go so far as to refer to Kali as a "Filipino-American" style."

i dont know about style,  

But i can tell you that the word "KALI" does not exist in any of the major languages of mindanao, it is not a chavacano word, a tausug word, a magindanao word and definately not a bisaya word. In recent years in wileys book it is believed that the term was started by floro villabrille who told this to Dan inosanto..

people in Zambaonga city and basilan certainly do not use the term kali.........


thanks

terry


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## Rich Parsons

> _Originally posted by moromoro _
> *"and some go so far as to refer to Kali as a "Filipino-American" style."
> 
> i dont know about style,
> 
> But i can tell you that the word "KALI" does not exist in any of the major languages of mindanao, it is not a chavacano word, a tausug word, a magindanao word and definately not a bisaya word. In recent years in wileys book it is believed that the term was started by floro villabrille who told this to Dan inosanto..
> 
> people in Zambaonga city and basilan certainly do not use the term kali.........
> 
> 
> thanks
> 
> terry *




Dear Sir,

From one of the following books, in a paper I tried to write once, I found the following information.

*
           Corcoran, John; Frakas, Emil; and Stuart, Sobel,
           The Original Martial Arts Encyclopedia, Los Angeles, California
           (Pro-Action Publishing) 1993

           Alejandro, Reynaldo G., SAYAW SILANGAN  The Dance in the
           Phillipines, New York, New York, (Dance Perspectives Foundation)
           1972

           Reid, Howard; Croucher, Michael, THE FIGHTING ARTS, New York,
           New York, (SIMON AND SCHUSTER) 1983


           Inosanto, Dan, The Filipino Martial Arts. (Los Angeles,
           California., KNOW HOW Publishing Co.)

*


_
Some of those names are as follows: Bothoan, taught to school children on Panay; Kaliradman, by the Visayans; Kalirongan, by the Pangasinese; Pagkalikali, by the Ibanags; Balintawak or Garote, by the Cebuanos; Baston, by the people of Panay and the Negros Occidentals; Sinawali, by the Pampangenos; Estocada, by the Tagalogs; and many more as well as the more common terms of: Kali; Escrima; Arnis and Arnis de Mano.
_

Now you will see that the word Kali is not there by itself, yet it is found embedded into other words.

Another piece of information I gathered was the following:

_
Although, around 200 B.C.  the Malayas migrated to the Philippines bringing with them the bolo. The bolo was added to the existing list of weapons of choice for the Filipinos.  Hence, an art already existed in some form or another at this time.  The point is that the history of this art is barried in a time of history when written records were slim or none. The list already consisted of the Bow and Arrow, and the Stick or Cane. A further fact pointing to the influence of the Indonesians is the name Kali. It was shortened from Kalis which was translated from the Indonesian word Tjakalele, which was the name of the local fencing art.
_

So, maybe in certain locations of he VAST Islands of the Phillipines, one or more small villiages kept a verbal history of the beginnings of their art?

Now, I and these books maybe wrong. I admit that. Yet, could it not also be possible that they are also right?

With every Family or Town or Village having their own system of fighting, is it not possible that the word of Kali was not used?

Just some words for thought.

Enjoy your research into history. :asian:


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## arnisador

I too have noticed that the letter grouping _kali_ appears in some words describing FMA, even though _kali_ may not be traditional. I do not know enough to know if it's a root word of some sort or a coincidence, e.g., the letters _the_ appear in many English words but it doesn't mean that _there_ and _theatre_ are connected or even that the three letters together have some great significance (apart from _the_ being a common word).


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## moromoro

hi 

yes the book the secrets of kalis illustrisimo the filipino fighting art explained........ tells you exact origins......

on page 8 the first paragrah of the intro explains this

i shall cite the paragraph
in respect to research

"we would like to make it clear from the onset that kalis illustrisimo is not to be confused with kali. Kali has become a generic name used for Filipino martial arts" as practised in the U.S. Kali is not however, the name of an ancient, all encompassing "mother art" of the philippines.  In fact, nobody that we know in the Philippines ever used that term, or had even herd of it, until it was usedin yambao's book and, later in Inosanto and Johnsons book."
"inosanto began using the term kali because his teacher, Floro villabrille, it was the ancient art of our country." (Diego & Ricketts, 1999:8)
the rest second paragraph the goes on to explaine how much of a fraud illustrisimo's relative villabrile is.......

as you can see the authors have the same views as 100% of the filipino population in the philippines KALI IS NOT A PHILIPINO WORD.........
YOU CAN CHECK ALL OF OUR 70 + DIALECTS AND LANGUAGES AND YOU WILL NOT FIND THE TERM KALI......

in an older article tatang has said that he only dicided to use the term kali because students from america kept asking if he could show them KALI..........


The secrets of kalis illustrisimo 'the filipino fighting art explained' , 2002, tuttle martial arts, boston, vermont , tokyo..


thanks guys i hope this has clarified many confusions...

terry


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## Rich Parsons

> _Originally posted by moromoro _
> *hi
> 
> yes the book the secrets of kalis illustrisimo the filipino fighting art explained........ tells you exact origins......
> 
> on page 8 the first paragrah of the intro explains this
> 
> i shall cite the paragraph
> in respect to research
> 
> "we would like to make it clear from the onset that kalis illustrisimo is not to be confused with kali. Kali has become a generic name used for Filipino martial arts" as practised in the U.S. Kali is not however, the name of an ancient, all encompassing "mother art" of the philippines.  In fact, nobody that we know in the Philippines ever used that term, or had even herd of it, until it was usedin yambao's book and, later in Inosanto and Johnsons book."
> "inosanto began using the term kali because his teacher, Floro villabrille, it was the ancient art of our country." (Diego & Ricketts, 1999:8)
> the rest second paragraph the goes on to explaine how much of a fraud illustrisimo's relative villabrile is.......
> 
> as you can see the authors have the same views as 100% of the filipino population in the philippines KALI IS NOT A PHILIPINO WORD.........
> YOU CAN CHECK ALL OF OUR 70 + DIALECTS AND LANGUAGES AND YOU WILL NOT FIND THE TERM KALI......
> 
> in an older article tatang has said that he only dicided to use the term kali because students from america kept asking if he could show them KALI..........
> 
> 
> The secrets of kalis illustrisimo 'the filipino fighting art explained' , 2002, tuttle martial arts, boston, vermont , tokyo..
> 
> 
> thanks guys i hope this has clarified many confusions...
> 
> terry *




What does Kalis Mean?????

The following is from the Eskrima Digest Volume #10 Issue #119:

With many of the Old Masters Contradicting each other, I find it hard to know whom to believe. 

Message: 3
From: "David Foggie" <david.foggie@bigpond.com>
To: <eskrima@martialartsresource.net>
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 02:24:51 +1100
Subject: [Eskrima] kali
Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net

"Garrote Olisi Eskrimador" wrote:

"Well David, name me a Philippine island that uses the word kali and I'll give you my one months pay!!!  I'll go there myself to check it out. You've probably never set foot in our country, so stop assuming you know too much about Eskrima. " The following is a response by Guro Roland Dantes.

I was born in the south island of  Mindanao, in  the province of Cotabato. My father was also born in  Mindanao, but in  the province of Clarin, Misamis Oriental . My mother came from the north island ( Luzon ) the Ilocos  Pangasinan provinces. My grandfather was for a  while settled in the Visayan region islands (the island of Leyte). Because my late father was a military officer he was assigned to different islands ( north to south ). During his time,   my father Climaco Pintoy was assigned as Military Provincial Commanders of the provinces of Cotabato, Davao, Lanao, Dipolog, Zamboanga. After his promotion to Brigadier General, he became the military zone commander of the 4th military area which comprised all the main southern islands of the Philippines namely, Mindanao, Jolo, Sulu , including Palawan (It was then abbreviated to "Minsupala").My father also became the Deputy Commander in Camp Lapu Lapu  (located in Cebu City , the Visayan Region ).His last command was at Camp Evangelista, in Cagayan De Oro. Furthermore,  he was the camp Commander of Camp Murphy (now known as Camp Aguinaldo), which is the General Headquarters of the Armed Forces of the Philippines, located in  Metro Manila.My father was fluent ( aside from the National language Tagalog  of course ) in the Ilocano, Pangasinan, Ibanag dialects of the north  island of Luzon, the Bisayan, Ilongo dialects  of the Visayan Regions, but also  knew Maguindanao, Maranaw, and Tausog dialects of the south islands (  Mindanao, Jolo, Sulu ). There is even a camp in Iligan, Lanao named after my late father, Camp General Climaco Pintoy that I visited recently wherein I  gave a free seminar/clinic to a full battalion of Philippine Army soldiers on the knife fighting techniques of our art Kali/Eskrima/Arnis!

As you can see, I grew up in  the different islands of the Philippines from north to south.My relatives come from different islands. Although the Philippines is  predominantly a Christian nation, I have Muslim relatives in the south islands.  I grew up in different islands in our country  because the whole family (incidentaly, 3 brothers and 4 sisters all born in different islands), had to keep on moving wherever my father was  reassigned. However I found this an advantage because we (my brothers and sisters)  learned how to speak different dialects!

Now as to the subject of the term "kali". In my position with Arnis Philippines (33rd Member of the Philippine Olympic Committee), there  are members that use the term kali in their club/federation/association  name. There is nothing wrong with that. And nobody questions their choice of word.

Once I was invited  by the then Vice-Governor  of the island of Panay, Vice -Govornor Noemi Villareal together with my wife and the late Grandmaster Ben Lema to a big celebration wherein there was a gathering of Philippine masters of different styles a lot of them nobody even heared of I was amazed at the number of participants who demonstrated. There were a number of these  masters from different styles that used the term KALI in their groups. We must remember that the island of Panay is where the legend of the ten Datus  settled down and established the " School of Bothoan " ( Vice Governor knew all  about this part of the history of the island of Panay) , and I saluted him for it ). I also know of the existence of another group in the province of  Pangasinan that named  their association Kalirodman (which is the term used in  their dialect, "Pangalatok"). Remenber, my mother was from that island and  again, I have relatives there.

If we go down south to the island of Mindanao, my Muslim relations even use the term kali in reference to their art, aside of course engaging  themselves in SILAT. THIS IS A FACT!

"Garrote Olisi Eskrimador", you said you would give one months pay if  my student, David Foggie could name an island where the term kali is used.  My Muslim relatives in Mindanao use the term, as I mentioned above. Are  you willing to cover our travel expenses and visit these people to see for yourself. You may be worried about your safety travelling around  Mindanao, but I will be with you. You will be safe.

Incidently, David has accompanied me in some of my travels  to the Philippines and met and trained with a number of masters. This cannot be disputed. Also, in teaching my direct students, I ensure they are knowledgeable in our culture.

In general, I personally believe that there shouldn't be any controversy on anyone using the term kali in the name of their organization or style.The reason is that this is in the history of the Philippines as approved by  the Department of Education in the Republic of the Philippines.

The Filipino martial arts has a very unique and diverse history. Kali/Eskrima/Arnis has developed tremendously through the constant evolution of combat. Always RESPECT those masters who have diligently trained and  passed on the principles and teachings of the art. 
OUR ART !

P.S. In  1981 while I was in Hawaii promoting a movie of mine and I was fortunate enough to have timed it during the celebration of the late Grandmaster Floro Villabrille's birthday.I was invited to this  celebration on the beautiful island of Kauai by my kababayan (countrymen), together  with Grandmasters Tabosa and Snookie Sanchez from Honolulu...May they rest in peace...great masters.Even the Governor of Hawaii at the time, Governor  George Ariyoshi declared it an official public holiday on the island Kauai to  honor Grandmaster Floro Villabrille. This was the last occasion Dan Inosanto  and I saw each other, together with Grandmaster Ben Largusa and a big group  from the mainland.I can even remember Dan jokingly saying to me at the time,"  Roland, we are getting old."Incidently, the late Grandmaster Villabrille called  hisart once again,.KALI !

Roland Dantes.

--__--__--


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## moromoro

hi 

very interesting the above view of dantes seems to be  from modern times
I think the view of diego, ricketts and tatang illustrisimo is the correct view,  of course since the popularity created by yambaos book and to a much greater extent Inosanto's the term will NOW be used by certain training groups in the philippines, but the fact of the matter is that the term KALI still does not exist as a word in any of our dialects.......


terry


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## lhommedieu

Use of the word "Kali" has been exhaustively detailed in Mark Wiley's "Filipino Martial Culture."  One aspect of his argument is that while "Kali" may be used by some Filipino martial artists to describe their art, it is generally more useful to use regional terms that describe tribal names, clan names, village names, family names, styles of fighting, techniques, etc. (all of which reflect differences in language and dialect). These probably number into the hundreds.

However, at this point in the history of Filipino arts, the word "Kali" is so firmly embedded in the consciousness of many Western martial artists that it will continue to be used  no matter how many forum debates about its appropriateness occur in the future.  Without question the terms "Arnis" and "Eskrima" will continue to be used as majority terms in the Philippines (i.e, as catch-all terms, in addition to the regional names referrred to above) to refer to Filipino martial arts.  Without question the term "Kali" will continue to be used in Western countries like the United States.  Why?  Because it has become part of the vernacular, like "pizza," and "won ton."  

Why not just assume that the word "Kali" has become a part of the American vernacular, i.e., that as a regional idiom that serves the same purpose here that "Arnis" serves in many parts of the Philippines?  Languages are living phenomena - in a hundred years no one will question the legitimacy of the word "Kali" because it will either be in favor or not.  That is, with regional terms, it is the use of a term that determines it's legitimacy, not its etymological pedigree.  Everyone knows that "Egg Foo Young" (sp?) did not originate in China; no one doubts what you mean when you order it in a restaurant, or questions the legitimacy of the term with respect to its practical use.

Of course, I do not mean to beg the question of whether the use of the word "Kali" to denote a single, all-encompassing, indigenous Filipino art is still legitimate.  A little research into sources that, in all fairness, were not available thirty years ago, will show that this is not the case.  Use of the term to differentiate "blade vs. stick" arts will similarly not survive serious scrutiny.  

My point is merely (and I hope you do not confuse a sense of humor for a lack of respect for Filipino terminology) that the term is here to stay.   Further argument about the term is in inverse proportion to the amount of time you spend practicing the art.  Having said that, it's time to go to the park.

Best,

Steve Lamade


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