# Training in Shanghai



## Kyoshi (Aug 25, 2009)

Hi there

Im probably going to Shanghai for about 3-4 months and im looking for some tempoary training there.

Do you have any ideas?

Im open for everything, but mostly wingtsun/chun, chinna or white crane.



Thx


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## Xinglu (Aug 25, 2009)

YES DO IT!   that is my advice


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## ggg214 (Aug 25, 2009)

IMO, there are less White Crane and Wing Chun practitioners here.
Chinna is not a specified style. 
every schools have some Chinna skills.


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## Kyoshi (Aug 26, 2009)

I know - BUT there are some styles which focus more - than for instance Eagle Claw - they are well known for their chinna skills.


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## Xue Sheng (Aug 26, 2009)

Pardon me but "Chinna" is driving me crazy, nothing personal but can we please use the pinyin "Qinna" thank you. For a minute I was not sure it was not a miss-spelling of China. I know Wade Giles spells it Chinna but you are talking modern day mainland and it is mostly pinyin which would be Qinna &#25810;&#25343; (Pinyin: qín ná; Wade-Giles: ch'in2 na2)

ggg214 is in Shanghai or very near it so he would know better than I as to what is there and who may legitimately teach a westerner. If it were Beijing I would suggest the Yao brothers since you are only there 3 to 4 months but that is Yiquan. But Shanghai I have no idea. There are others on MT that may be able to help you more as well

Now

Do you speak Mandarin? Start there.

If you do then it will be easier, if you don't then you may need to higher an interpreter and you will pay considerably more money for the training and you will need to pay the interpreter too. 

Also it is Buyer Beware; There are a ton of folks in China just waiting to take western $$$ so you need to figure out if there is a legitimate Sifu that will teach you and then decide on style.

All styles of CMA have Qinna to varying degrees but if you go there and find a legitimate Sifu and approach him with the attitude that you are only interested in Qinna you may find that they do not take you all that seriously and if you are from the US and don&#8217;t speak the language you are already at a disadvantage because so many westerners show up there looking for training and many are not really all that serious and many there have no problem charging a westerner 3 to 4 to 10 times more than they would charge a Chinese person. Or he may not teach you. Find a charlatan and he will happily take your money and show you junk.


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## Xinglu (Aug 27, 2009)

Not to nit pick.... BUT if you insist on him using pinyin spellings then you use non-pinyin spelling >>>I<<< get confused.

Sifu should be Shifu (&#24072;&#29238 if we are using pinyin  

Otherwise, yeah, I totally agree! Good advice. 

Kyoshi - Check out the Yongchun (&#21647;&#26149, or Cai Li Fo (&#34081;&#26446;&#20315  The latter should be easy to find.  Either way you go there is good Qinna to be found.  Of course there is Taijiquan (&#22826;&#26497;&#25331 and that is the easiest to find and the qinna there is amazing.

I say go and find a legit teacher, worry less about style and more about quality of instruction. Then you will have an amazing time and learn much!


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## clfsean (Aug 27, 2009)

Xinglu said:


> Not to nit pick.... BUT if you insist on him using pinyin spellings then you use non-pinyin spelling >>>I<<< get confused.
> 
> Sifu should be Shifu (&#24072;&#29238 if we are using pinyin
> 
> ...




You're not going to find CLF or Wing Chun in Shanghai most likely. It's too far north to find the Southern Hands. 

You should find Praying Mantis, Eagle Claw, Mi Zong, Taiji at the Chin Wu there though. You can probably find some other stuff around like Xingyi, Bagua or maybe some Shuai Jiao or some other long fist type stuff.


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## Jade Tigress (Aug 27, 2009)

Xinglu said:


> Sifu should be Shifu (&#24072;&#29238 if we are using pinyin



Off topic:

Can someone clear this up? I thought *Sifu* was the Cantonese and *Shifu* Mandarin. ??


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## clfsean (Aug 27, 2009)

Jade Tigress said:


> Off topic:
> 
> Can someone clear this up? I thought *Sifu* was the Cantonese and *Shifu* Mandarin. ??




It is. 

Sifu is the Cantonese (language of the patriots & southerners... both good things!!!  but I can't figure out how to say "Y'all" or "yonder" in cantonese. If I could, I'd be in heaven!! ) Fan Ching Fuk Ming

Shifu is the Mandarin (language of gov't & such) Bu xie

Pinyin is the standardized English spelling as put out by the PRC rather than the Wade Giles or other written spelling guides.


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## Xue Sheng (Aug 27, 2009)

Xinglu said:


> Not to nit pick.... BUT if you insist on him using pinyin spellings then you use non-pinyin spelling >>>I<<< get confused.
> 
> Sifu should be Shifu (&#24072;&#29238 if we are using pinyin
> 
> ...


 
Actually it is likely just me I can deal with sifu and most recognize sifu, I know shifu is pinyin where sifu&#8230;well I am not sure what it is. It is not Wade-Giles (or at least I don&#8217;t think it is - shi pinyin is shih wade-giles) and Chinna is Wade-Giles. Basically I have a problem with Wade-Giles. SO that leads to I cannot deal with things like Chinna that the majority of mainland people would be clueless about that is if they understood or knew pinyin and it is my guess that a lot of legitimate shifu types in China may not due to age they will understand &#25810;&#25343;. 

But Wade-Giles&#8230; I am not sure many young or old on mainland would know what the heck you were trying to say. I suspect they may, if they know pinyin, be able to figure out sifu, particularly in the south (and Shanghai is south), but I could be wrong. I know more about things North.



Jade Tigress said:


> Off topic:
> 
> Can someone clear this up? I thought *Sifu* was the Cantonese and *Shifu* Mandarin. ??


 
First let me preface this with, the little mandarin I know has a Beijing accent so my pronunciation of Shifu may be somewhat different than a lot of mandarin speakers

Sifu is Cantonese with a Cantonese tone si1 fu6 and Shifu is Pinyin with the mandarin tone of shi4 fu&#8230; but don&#8217;t ask me how to pronounce si1 fu6 Cantonese have more tones than Mandarin. Beijing Mandarin stops at 4 tones

Since I believe that the Wade Giles equivalent to Shi is Shih. Sifu is to my mind pronounces seefoo where shifu is (here is the Beijing accent part) pronounced shrfoo. But so be honest I am not actually sure where the spelling of sifu comes from I will have to ask my wife. 

And anyone please feel free to correct me if I am wrong on any of this but

Both &#24107;&#20613; and &#24107;&#29238; are I believe used for shifu but 

&#24107;&#20613; is more directly translated into teacher tutor

Where&#24107;&#29238; is directly translated into teacher father

However my Chinese characters are not so good and I had to look the first one up so I could be wrong on that or both actually


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## Xue Sheng (Aug 27, 2009)

clfsean said:


> You're not going to find CLF or Wing Chun in Shanghai most likely. It's too far north to find the Southern Hands.
> 
> You should find Praying Mantis, Eagle Claw, Mi Zong, Taiji at the Chin Wu there though. You can probably find some other stuff around like Xingyi, Bagua or maybe some Shuai Jiao or some other long fist type stuff.


 
Sounds right to me, but then what do I know about Shanghai..its south and everyone knows all the GREAT stuff is in the NORTH 

But it is my understaning, as far as Taiji goes, is that it is mostly Wu style but there are other things there and there is Xinyiquan too but I am not sure how much. There was a poster on MT a while back whose name was Xinyiquan and he trained in or around Shanghai and he also had a website. I think you can find it in one of his posts of possibly profile if it is still active.



Xinglu said:


> Kyoshi - Check out the Yongchun (&#21647;&#26149, or Cai Li Fo (&#34081;&#26446;&#20315 The latter should be easy to find. Either way you go there is good Qinna to be found. Of course there is Taijiquan (&#22826;&#26497;&#25331 and that is the easiest to find and the qinna there is amazing.


 
As to finding Qinna in Taiji; Yes there is lots of it (to varying degrees depending on style) but finding a real live taiji shifu that will teach a foreigner that is only there for a few months a lot of Qinna I am not sure about



Xinglu said:


> I say go and find a legit teacher, worry less about style and more about quality of instruction. Then you will have an amazing time and learn much!


 
That about covers it


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## Jade Tigress (Aug 27, 2009)

clfsean said:


> It is.
> 
> Sifu is the Cantonese (language of the patriots & southerners... both good things!!!  but I can't figure out how to say "Y'all" or "yonder" in cantonese. If I could, I'd be in heaven!! ) Fan Ching Fuk Ming
> 
> ...





Xue Sheng said:


> Sounds right to me, but then what do I know about Shanghai..its south and everyone knows all the GREAT stuff is in the NORTH
> 
> But it is my understaning, as far as Taiji goes, is that it is mostly Wu style but there are other things there and there is Xinyiquan too but I am not sure how much. There was a poster on MT a while back whose name was Xinyiquan and he trained in or around Shanghai and he also had a website. I think you can find it in one of his posts of possibly profile if it is still active.
> 
> ...



I knew I could count on you two. :asian: 

And by the way Xue....everyone knows all the good stuff is in the SOUTH.


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## Xue Sheng (Aug 27, 2009)

clfsean said:


> It is.
> 
> Sifu is the Cantonese (language of the patriots & southerners... both good things!!!


 
 Just another typical Southern North envy type response 

Now if I may ask a favor.... :anic: please don't tell my Taiji sifu or my last Wing Chun sifu I said that 



Jade Tigress said:


> I knew I could count on you two. :asian:
> 
> And by the way Xue....everyone knows all the good stuff is in the SOUTH.


 

:jaw-dropping: YEAH!!! :tantrum: Well if you wern't hundreds of miles away with your SOUTHERN Preying mantis style..... :anic: I wouldn't be so brave in my response...


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## Jade Tigress (Aug 27, 2009)

Xue Sheng said:


> Just another typical Southern North envy type response
> 
> Now if I may ask a favor.... :anic: please don't tell my Taiji sifu or my last Wing Chun sifu I said that
> 
> ...



LOL! Damn straight boy. (and if I wasn't hundreds of miles away I wouldn't be so brave in _my_ response)  Now, if I had my SIFU here with me, then it'd be a go. hee hee


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## blindsage (Aug 27, 2009)

Xue Sheng said:


> Pardon me but "Chinna" is driving me crazy, nothing personal but can we please use the pinyin "Qinna" thank you. For a minute I was not sure it was not a miss-spelling of China. I know Wade Giles spells it Chinna but you are talking modern day mainland and it is mostly pinyin which would be Qinna &#25810;&#25343; (Pinyin: qín ná; Wade-Giles: ch'in2 na2)


Just because it annoys you?  Pinyin may be considered more 'correct' these day (including by me), but many Americans' exposure to particular Chinese terms is only to the Wade-Giles version.  That's not their fault.  If you don't like Wade-Giles, no problem, don't use it, but don't get upset with others who don't have your level of exposure to the Chinese language or the 'official' transliteration system.  Take the time to explain it if you feel the need, but telling people they need to get with the program in this fashion is kind of counter productive.


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## Xinglu (Aug 27, 2009)

Xue Sheng said:


> Actually it is likely just me I can deal with sifu and most recognize sifu, I know shifu is pinyin where sifu


  I'm just giving you a hard time 




Xue Sheng said:


> And anyone please feel free to correct me if I am wrong on any of this but
> 
> 
> Xue Sheng said:
> ...


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## Xinglu (Aug 27, 2009)

clfsean said:


> You're not going to find CLF or Wing Chun in Shanghai most likely. It's too far north to find the Southern Hands.
> 
> You should find Praying Mantis, Eagle Claw, Mi Zong, Taiji at the Chin Wu there though. You can probably find some other stuff around like Xingyi, Bagua or maybe some Shuai Jiao or some other long fist type stuff.




True, but if he is to find any southern hands, I think he'd have an easier time finding those as they seem more widespread.

Personally, I favor xingyiquan so I will biasly and shamelessly plug it   The problem will be finding some one to train him for such a short time.

Any chance you can extend your stay over there?


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## Xue Sheng (Aug 27, 2009)

blindsage said:


> Just because it annoys you? Pinyin may be considered more 'correct' these day (including by me), but many Americans' exposure to particular Chinese terms is only to the Wade-Giles version. That's not their fault. If you don't like Wade-Giles, no problem, don't use it, but don't get upset with others who don't have your level of exposure to the Chinese language or the 'official' transliteration system. Take the time to explain it if you feel the need, but telling people they need to get with the program in this fashion is kind of counter productive.


 
As I said in a post after that, it is likely just me.... but since Wade-Giles is understood by just about no one in Shanghai and that is where the OP is going&#8230;&#8230;..

And I am sorry I will strive to be nicer next time, and I was not upset with the OP I was upset with the use of a Wade-Giles that is not used in China and if ones goal is to live in China it is best to hear it here not there. 

There are a lot of people that feel you can just pop over to China and train MA and that is simply not the case if you don't have connections there and/or you don't speak the language and if it is a real live Chinese Sifu the don't take to kindly to someone showing up and saying I want to learn X from you. It is not easy to hear but most good Chinese sifus know better than you do as to what you are ready to learn and they are not real trusting of strangers.... but they may like the strangers money. And it is real easy to find someone that will take your money to show you just about anything.... although they themselves may no little. 

When I went there I thought it would be easy too (and my wife is from there) and it wasn't. I eventually found a real live Sifu but I chickened out because of lack of self confidence in the style, not much time and the fact he spoke no English and I spoke so little Mandarin I might as well say I didn't speak any at all. And he scared the hell out of me with a look, which Xingyiquan people are very good at doing.

I apologize if I offend but just popping over to China to learn Qinna is not as easy as it sounds and using a spelling that pretty much no one there will know will not help. 

If one comes to MT and ask about Chinna I might say it is spelled Qinna you come on MT and say I am going to China and I want to learn Chinna you better know at least the pinyin, but to be honest I saw none there. And that is absolute no guarantee that the Sifu you find will have a clue as to what Qinna is. The guy that scared me off would have no clue what Xingyiquan or Hsing-i Chuan was, but he would know &#24418;&#24847;&#25331; and he knew what I was talking about when I said Xíngyìquán.

I don't mean to offend and I do not mean to be argumentative and I do not want to upset anyone but the reality is it just is not that easy to do and there are a lot of people there (some legitamate masters) that feel taking money from westerners is a sport and he who takes most and shows least wins. However, speak the language you will be taken more seriously or have a real trusty translator who will tell you what is going on you are less likely to have problems. 



Xinglu said:


> I'm just giving you a hard time
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## blindsage (Aug 27, 2009)

Xue Sheng said:


> As I said in a post after that, it is likely just me.... but since Wade-Giles is understood by just about no one in Shanghai and that is where the OP is going&#8230;&#8230;..


I understood that, I just thought explaining it would be better than implying someone was way out of line for using Wade-Giles on an english forum when they probably have no idea of the points your making.



> And I am sorry I will strive to be nicer next time, and I was not upset with the OP I was upset with the use of a Wade-Giles that is not used in China and if ones goal is to live in China it is best to hear it here not there.


Now _this _is a very useful explanation.



> There are a lot of people that feel you can just pop over to China and train MA and that is simply not the case if you don't have connections there and/or you don't speak the language and if it is a real live Chinese Sifu the don't take to kindly to someone showing up and saying I want to learn X from you. It is not easy to hear but most good Chinese sifus know better than you do as to what you are ready to learn and they are not real trusting of strangers.... but they may like the strangers money. And it is real easy to find someone that will take your money to show you just about anything.... although they themselves may no little.
> 
> When I went there I thought it would be easy too (and my wife is from there) and it wasn't. I eventually found a real live Sifu but I chickened out because of lack of self confidence in the style, not much time and the fact he spoke no English and I spoke so little Mandarin I might as well say I didn't speak any at all. And he scared the hell out of me with a look, which Xingyiquan people are very good at doing.


and even more great contexual information, thanks for sharing.



> I apologize if I offend but just popping over to China to learn Qinna is not as easy as it sounds and using a spelling that pretty much no one there will know will not help.


Do most people actually know pinyin transliterations in China?



> If one comes to MT and ask about Chinna I might say it is spelled Qinna you come on MT and say I am going to China and I want to learn Chinna you better know at least the pinyin, but to be honest I saw none there. And that is absolute no guarantee that the Sifu you find will have a clue as to what Qinna is. The guy that scared me off would have no clue what Xingyiquan or Hsing-i Chuan was, but he would know &#24418;&#24847;&#25331; and he knew what I was talking about when I said Xíngyìquán.


That all makes sense.



> I don't mean to offend and I do not mean to be argumentative and I do not want to upset anyone but the reality is it just is not that easy to do and there are a lot of people there (some legitamate masters) that feel taking money from westerners is a sport and he who takes most and shows least wins. However, speak the language you will be taken more seriously or have a real trusty translator who will tell you what is going on you are less likely to have problems.


Thanks for following up with a _lot_ of insightful points.


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## Xue Sheng (Aug 27, 2009)

blindsage said:


> Do most people actually know pinyin transliterations in China?


 
Younger and educated, meaning mostly under 50, who learned English in school likely know pinyin.

My wife is very good with pinyin but she was taught English from junior high on. And her Hospital even sent her for more English and Japanese after she was out of college and she teaches Chinese in college here and all the students must learn pinyin and Chinese characters. Also my young nephew that lives there in China is pretty good with pinyin, but he has been studying English since the 2nd grade and is now in Junior high and another nephew is pretty good to but he is now in college and has been studying English since grade school. So there are people in China that know pinyin but the also read and write Chinese and that is what you see everywhere. I do believe you would be hard pressed to find any that know Wade-Giles.

I did not see any pinyin or much English written anywhere and when I was last there, but that was before the Olympics, I am told there are more English signs there now.


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## Tensei85 (Aug 27, 2009)

For the OP, I would give these recommendations personally for Shanghai area. To better serve your inquiry what part of Shanghai will you be staying?
As it would be much better to find somewhere closer rather than far away as Shanghai is pretty massive!

Try Long Wu International Kung Fu Centre, they also teach Wing Chun (Yong Chun)

Check this program out for short term Summer programs relating towards Internal arts: http://www.mystudyinchina.com/shanghai/cma/shus/sump.htm

Check out Peter Hsu for more Wing Chun: http://www.phwingchun.com/

Also check out a guy named John Xue for teaching Sum Nung Wing Chun in Shanghai. 

Hope these options will work for your schedule.


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## Tensei85 (Aug 27, 2009)

Also to note: the Simplified would be &#24072; as opposed to &#24107;. And &#29238; still being the same alongside &#20613;.


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## Tensei85 (Aug 27, 2009)

Also for the OP, if your ever in the Shandong area you should check out a Shifu Li Guo Cheng. I've personally trained with him & can attest to his awesome skills! I'm hoping to go back & finish my training in the near future but he's worth checking out on another trip perhaps ; ) 

He instructs in Wu Xing Tong Bei Quan, Xingyi Quan, Bagua Zhuang as well as Yang Taiji Quan.

Good luck & safe travels!


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## clfsean (Aug 27, 2009)

Xue Sheng said:


> I did not see any pinyin or much English written anywhere and when I was last there, but that was before the Olympics, I am told there are more English signs there now.



When I was there in '01, I actually saw English almost every where I went except in Chen Village. Even then there were a few signs... like Chen Changxing's house where Yang Lu Chan learned Chen taiji. BUT... there wasn't any sign to point to the village, Chinese or otherwise. Wenxian nearby had English signs. I've even got a pic of a PBR table shade at a bar in Lhasa. However, the proliferation of English language signs wasn't anything like I saw from Beijing over the summer though. Most of the large highways had English road signs & such.


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## ggg214 (Aug 28, 2009)

Shanghai is preparing for Expo2010, so there are more and more english signs here, including wrong words or wrong expression.^-^


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## Xue Sheng (Aug 28, 2009)

clfsean said:


> When I was there in '01, I actually saw English almost every where I went except in Chen Village. Even then there were a few signs... like Chen Changxing's house where Yang Lu Chan learned Chen taiji. BUT... there wasn't any sign to point to the village, Chinese or otherwise. Wenxian nearby had English signs. I've even got a pic of a PBR table shade at a bar in Lhasa. However, the proliferation of English language signs wasn't anything like I saw from Beijing over the summer though. Most of the large highways had English road signs & such.


 
Now that you mention it I did see some street signs in English and some signs at tourist places but absolutely none at the bus stops or in many of the places I went to, but then I was going place with my wife. Although I did find myself in a Star Bucks there and I don't remember any English signs (other than Star Bucks) and I was once in a McDonalds (out of curiosity) and I was marveling at all the menus in Chinese, same with KFC and my sister-in-law took me to a pizza hut, thinking Im an America so that must be where I want to go, and there was no English there at all and it was a rather fancy sit-down type restaurant with doormen. But I didnt see any Pinyin in any of those places

It is my understanding that, since the Olympics, there are a lot more english signs


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## Kyoshi (Sep 1, 2009)

Thanks alot for the answars - im from Denmark and knows only little chinese.
I've been training for 14 years in various arts - so i should be able to know whos a fraud and whos the real thing.

Elsewise, what do you think about teaching over there - you think it would be possible? I mix alot of my stuff into what I like and what fits my body if i could teach and also train that - then it would suit me perfectly - since i think its very hard to find a master over there, who will teach someone who has no relation to him nor his style, and or doesn't speak their language.


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## ggg214 (Sep 1, 2009)

what do you want to learn from masters in shanghai? 
if you want to gain sth. of CMA, i think you'd better to empty your bowl firstly.
as you said, the language is a big problem, because most of masters who have a good kong fu, are middle age, they don't know english at all. some of them don't speak mandarin either. it will make your communication is tough. 
another suggestion for you: visit public parks in the morning.many gread masters like to spend their time there.


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## East Winds (Sep 1, 2009)

"_*i think youd better to empty your bowl first*_"

Thats good advice from ggg214

Very best wishes


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