# Is there any vulnerability in Wing Chun?



## Yeung (Jul 7, 2017)

I am not sure as some of the remarks in the forum are justifiable due to lack of proper understand of the art. Like every art there is room for improvement.


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## Flying Crane (Jul 7, 2017)

No person is perfect.  Every person can be vulnerable and has room to improve their skills and knowledge.

Wing chun is not an entity.  It is simply an approach to training.  Some people understand the methods better than others, some variants have more curriculum than others, but it boils down to the person.  No person is perfect.

Now, how many pages of pointless and repetitive argument will this thread get?


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## KPM (Jul 7, 2017)

Yeung said:


> I am not sure as some of the remarks in the forum are justifiable due to lack of proper understand of the art. Like every art there is room for improvement.



Now that my friend, as perfectly illustrated in recent discussions here, depends entirely upon who you talk to!    Some people try to use common sense and reason, while some people seem to look at their chosen system as if it was a religious belief.


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## Martial D (Jul 7, 2017)

Yeung said:


> I am not sure as some of the remarks in the forum are justifiable due to lack of proper understand of the art. Like every art there is room for improvement.


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## Headhunter (Jul 7, 2017)

Of course it's got weaknesses. The ones who say it's perfect with no weakness are the ones who don't understand the art


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## karatejj (Jul 7, 2017)

I think KPM is goin a long way to cover any holes in teh original wing chun by adding boxing! this is the way fwd!!


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## Martial D (Jul 7, 2017)

karatejj said:


> I think KPM is goin a long way to cover any holes in teh original wing chun by adding boxing! this is the way fwd!!


Not just boxing. It's about filling ranges.

Some claim their wc(or wt or vt etc) is already enough, but even they have to admit any and all WC systems are still of little use on the ground.

Me, with my (admittedly limited) understanding of Wing chun, it's only practical at trapping range; IMO there is no better system of short range striking. But short range striking is only a small part of combat, and at that same range there is also grappling(for which some judo or juijitsu doesn't hurt).


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## KPM (Jul 7, 2017)

karatejj said:


> I think KPM is goin a long way to cover any holes in teh original wing chun by adding boxing! this is the way fwd!!



Well thanks!  But saying "plugging holes" is too much like saying "gap-filling."   Wing Chun has ability at long range.  For some people that is enough and is workable.  But it may indeed be a vulnerability depending upon the situation.  So I would call it "augmenting" more than "gap filling."   But what I am doing actually goes beyond that.  I'm working one a smooth hybridization of Wing Chun and Boxing, the would truly be a new category...."Wing Chun Boxing."


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## Cephalopod (Jul 7, 2017)

It's absurd to think that a conceptual framework such as WC could lack vulnerability in all forms of combat.

200 yards downrange from a trained sniper, my wing chun skills won't help me worth a damn.

The skill of the practitioner lies in his/her ability to force an assailant to fight in the range and circumstances that are most comfortable and familiar to the practitioner.


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## Way_of_the_Crane (Jul 7, 2017)

Like previously stated, all arts have their vulnerability. If you are a student of the art, spar with any other Kung Fu or Martial art and you will see where these vulnerabilities are. 
I think telling someone will not get the same message across as an eye opening experience of a WC technique not working against another technique, especially in my past where the result was getting hit. 
When you think about how that happened, you will know it can happen/perhaps how to counter it. I love that the study of WC does not end, yet starts over to better yourself, if that hopefully makes sense.


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## SOD-WC (Jul 7, 2017)

i agree with mr crane any style will have gaps, every move has a counter and a counter to that move. At the end of the day you only need to be 0.5% better than the other person to win. 

Unless the other person has 3 arms......... then thats bad luck you're finished.

is that statement too general?


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## anerlich (Jul 7, 2017)

SOD-WC said:


> Unless the other person has 3 arms......... then thats bad luck you're finished.
> 
> is that statement too general?



I'd say it was too specific


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## Way_of_the_Crane (Jul 7, 2017)

SOD-WC said:


> i agree with mr crane any style will have gaps, every move has a counter and a counter to that move. At the end of the day you only need to be 0.5% better than the other person to win.
> 
> Unless the other person has 3 arms......... then thats bad luck you're finished.
> 
> is that statement too general?



Hahaha, I can say I have not had formal training on a person with three arms, I'm curious where this extra limb might even be on the body. Maybe if you try to get this 3 armed person wrapped up within themselves, like a pretzel, one may have a chance.


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## anerlich (Jul 7, 2017)

To truly understand your art, you need to treat it objectively and actively seek out its (and your) weaknesses. If you can't find any in Wing Chun, you probably aren't trying or don't want to for fear of what you might find.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Jul 7, 2017)

anerlich said:


> If you can't find any in Wing Chun, you probably aren't trying or don't want to for fear of what you might find.


Can you find "通背(Tong Bei) - one arm" concept in the WC system? When you punch right hand out, you pull left hand back. Both of your arms can be considered as one arm.









KPM said:


> Some people try to use common sense and reason, ...


If you keep your arm and chest as a 90 degree angle, both of your arms can hit on your opponent but your reach is limited. If you twist your body and punch out one arm as far as you can while pulling the other arm back as far as you can, you can have more reach.

This is just "common sense" but some people want to say, "my style doesn't do this".

Believe it or not, some people even say to bend your head down to pick up a $100 bill from the ground is against the Taiji principle. That's how seriously people may treat themselves as "the slaves of their MA system".


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## drop bear (Jul 7, 2017)

KPM said:


> Well thanks!  But saying "plugging holes" is too much like saying "gap-filling."   Wing Chun has ability at long range.  For some people that is enough and is workable.  But it may indeed be a vulnerability depending upon the situation.  So I would call it "augmenting" more than "gap filling."   But what I am doing actually goes beyond that.  I'm working one a smooth hybridization of Wing Chun and Boxing, the would truly be a new category...."Wing Chun Boxing."



One mans freedom fighter is another mans terrorist. Let's suggest it is gap filling when they do it and argumentation when we do it.


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## Way_of_the_Crane (Jul 7, 2017)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> Can you find "通背(Tong Bei) - one arm" concept in the WC system? When you punch right hand out, you pull left hand back. Both of your arms can be considered as one arm.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I've never heard Tong Bei until you brought it up. Its actually a solid technique, so I thank you for this, I spent the last hour or so doing research on it, its defiantly not something one gains over night. Do you know of any videos that might show this at max speed? I see it similar to a chain punch being, always occupying the space. But with the hip pivots and the arm pulled far back with it, i could see it being more powerful yet not as fast as the chain punch. I love to expand such knowledge, so the more the merrier.


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## anerlich (Jul 7, 2017)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> Can you find "通背(Tong Bei) - one arm" concept in the WC system? When you punch right hand out, you pull left hand back. Both of your arms can be considered as one arm.



Not sure what that had to do with my post, to which this was a response. I can't find your rhino guard in Wing Chun either, though whether that is good or bad is open to debate. No flying omoplatas either.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Jul 7, 2017)

Way_of_the_Crane said:


> i could see it being more powerful yet not as fast as the chain punch


Chain punch is like machine gun. One arm concept is like riffle or grenade. Both are useful in battle field.


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## Flying Crane (Jul 7, 2017)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> Can you find "通背(Tong Bei) - one arm" concept in the WC system? When you punch right hand out, you pull left hand back. Both of your arms can be considered as one arm.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


And turning the body like that is torso rotation which, when done correctly, increases power.  Tibetan white crane does this, only in fundamentals practice we exaggerate the movement to emphasize the rotation and the body connection.  But I always say that we are not the only system to use this, but in training, we just exaggerate more than the others.  Same principle, somewhat different manifestation.


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## Flying Crane (Jul 7, 2017)

anerlich said:


> Not sure what that had to do with my post, to which this was a response. I can't find your rhino guard in Wing Chun either, though whether that is good or bad is open to debate. No flying omoplatas either.


A few years ago I saw a video on YouTube of a wing chun guy doing punches with a very exaggerated rotation.  I don't know what lineage he was from, I've never seen any other wing chun guy do it quite like that.  I guess it's out there.


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## Martial D (Jul 8, 2017)

Flying Crane said:


> A few years ago I saw a video on YouTube of a wing chun guy doing punches with a very exaggerated rotation.  I don't know what lineage he was from, I've never seen any other wing chun guy do it quite like that.  I guess it's out there.


Keep in mind a lot of what is on YouTube is flat out fake.


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## ShortBridge (Jul 8, 2017)

Of course there are vulnerabilities in Wing Chun.


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## LFJ (Jul 8, 2017)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> Can you find "通背(Tong Bei) - one arm" concept in the WC system? When you punch right hand out, you pull left hand back. Both of your arms can be considered as one arm.



Not in VT. 

Because when you retract your right arm you are not protecting your space.
As indicated by the dotted white line, you are leaving a huge gap when retracting.

That's why VT doesn't do chain punches retracting each one straight back to the elbow.

Very easy to cut into.

Also, the rotation is not done, because; 

1. the protected line is opened up by turning past it, and continuous attack is interrupted.
2. it's actually something we use against the opponent to attain flank position.










> If you twist your body and punch out one arm as far as you can while pulling the other arm back as far as you can, you can have more reach.
> 
> This is just "common sense" but some people want to say, "my style doesn't do this".



Not because of "style", but for intelligent consideration in fighting.


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## anerlich (Jul 8, 2017)

"you can have more reach."

Just because you can, doesn't always mean you should.

Trying to make the opponent overreach or over-commit is a pretty common strategy. He'll be very happy if you help him.


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## Tony Dismukes (Jul 8, 2017)

Flying Crane said:


> No person is perfect. Every person can be vulnerable and has room to improve their skills and knowledge.
> 
> Wing chun is not an entity. It is simply an approach to training. Some people understand the methods better than others, some variants have more curriculum than others, but it boils down to the person. No person is perfect.


I'll add to that ...

No approach to training is perfect.

No approach to training is right for all people.
No approach to training is right for all purposes and contexts.
No approach to training is perfect _even for the person and purpose and context it is best suited to_. Martial arts and training methods are created by people and as you noted, no person is perfect. Every art and training method has room for improvement.


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## geezer (Jul 8, 2017)

LFJ said:


> ...Also, the rotation is not done, because;
> 
> 1. the protected line is opened up by turning past it, and continuous attack is interrupted.
> 2. it's actually something we use against the opponent to attain flank position.
> ...



LFJ's remarks above ring true for the YM-VT branch I train as well. If you deliver a long-range, "push-pull" punch turning and "blading" the body --as John described in post #15, you lose your VT/WC wedging geometry and become more vulnerable to counterpunches. Boxers deal with this by tucking the chin behind the shoulder and adjusting to a higher guard:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-CYbNdvNCBW8/UGiPdRKJ6eI/AAAAAAAAADc/dwqW4XzxO7k/s1600/boxing+stance.jpg

These adjustments require a completely different structure and stance, and would conflict with your trained VT/WC responses. The VT I train is conceived as an integrated system. Mixing-in something so different would _not_ yield good results.

On the other hand, if you reserve this "boxing-like" approach specifically for a _longer range_, you could use it effectively, just as you can switch from VT/WC to grappling when going to the ground.

I have been able to do this to a certain degree myself, transitioning from my Escrima to VT, and from VT to grappling. I don't consider it gap filling, but just using the best tools I have for each situation. Others will make different choices.


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## Flying Crane (Jul 8, 2017)

Tony Dismukes said:


> I'll add to that ...
> 
> No approach to training is perfect.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I can agree with that.

I think then that we all decide how much time and energy we are willing to spend on our research and training, and how well it fits our purposes.

For me, as example, I have a job from which I am being laid off, I am preparing to go back to school full time, I have a wife and a three-year old son who need my time and energy, and until my lay-off is complete I have been taking night classes in preparation knowing that this is on the horizon.  And, i have a side job, renting a portion of my home to make ends meet in the most expensive region of the nation.

So, I'm busy.  It's hard to find time to train, period.

A system that makes sense to me, but may be imperfect, fits my needs and is all I have time and energy for.  The last thing I am looking to do is spend time looking to fill any "holes" and try to bring myself up to the level of a professional fighter.  I don't have the time or energy, or desire to do that.  What I do serves my purposes well.


Tony Dismukes said:


> I'll add to that ...
> 
> No approach to training is perfect.
> 
> ...


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## Kung Fu Wang (Jul 8, 2017)

LFJ said:


> Not because of "style", but for intelligent consideration in fighting.


If you can

- cut your opponent's head off, why do you bother to stab him 5 times?
- knock your opponent down by 1 punch, why do you bother to punch him 5 times on his face?


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## Kung Fu Wang (Jul 8, 2017)

anerlich said:


> "you can have more reach."
> 
> Just because you can, doesn't always mean you should.
> 
> Trying to make the opponent overreach or over-commit is a pretty common strategy. He'll be very happy if you help him.


Many years ago, in one sparring, I jumped in and threw right punch at my opponent's face. My opponent steps back and the distance was a bit too far. Since I had my right leg forward, my left hand was too far to reach to his face, I moved my left leg behind my right leg (exactly the same move at 0.41 - 0.43 in the following clip), leaned my upper body forward, twisted and extended my body to the maximum, my right punch could finally land on my opponent's face and ended that fight. That extra 3 inches reach made a big difference in that challenge fight.

0.41 - 0.43.








geezer said:


> On the other hand, if you reserve this "boxing-like" approach specifically for a _longer range_, you could use it effectively, just as you can switch from VT/WC to grappling when going to the ground.


Sometime, you should be able to tell whether or not it's safe to extend your arm fully. When your opponent moves back, and lose his ground. it should be safe to do so. IMO, it's better to have the ability to do both. In the above example, if I followed the WC principle, I would give up that right punch.


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## KPM (Jul 8, 2017)

Flying Crane said:


> I am preparing to go back to school full time, I have a wife and a three-year old son who need my time and energy, .



Good for you for going back to school!  And I know from first hand experience that it isn't easy after being in the work force for awhile!  Good luck man!


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## Kung Fu Wang (Jul 8, 2017)

Flying Crane said:


> I am preparing to go back to school full time,...


After my retirement, I did consider seriously to go back to school to finish my PhD degree that I had almost finished. I then asked myself, "What can I do with that new PhD degree?" I soon decided to spend the rest of my life in MA and nothing else.


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## Flying Crane (Jul 8, 2017)

KPM said:


> Good for you for going back to school!  And I know from first hand experience that it isn't easy after being in the work force for awhile!  Good luck man!


Thank you!  I will say tho that I am excited about the change.  I am looking to go into the hard sciences, physics and/or biology, and for the last year I have been taking night classes in math to catch up with that background and be ready for calculus.  I am enjoying being in school again, and I know that I am a much better student now at the age of 46 than I was in my early 20s.


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## Flying Crane (Jul 8, 2017)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> After my retirement, I did consider seriously to go back to school to finish my PhD degree that I had almost finished. I then asked myself, "What can I do with that new PhD degree?" I soon decided to spend the rest of my life in MA and nothing else.


Well, I'm not retired yet, I've got a couple decades left so I figure it's just enough time to make a good run of it.


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## Nobody Important (Jul 8, 2017)

Flying Crane said:


> Thank you!  I will say tho that I am excited about the change.  I am looking to go into the hard sciences, physics and/or biology, and for the last year I have been taking night classes in math to catch up with that background and be ready for calculus.  I am enjoying being in school again, and I know that I am a much better student now at the age of 46 than I was in my early 20s.


Congrats! It's a tough road balancing family, school & work, but I'm sure you can do it. Just about ready to graduate with my second science degree, and already scoping out schools for my masters. I totally agree with you, I'm a much better student now than I was 20 years ago, kinda weird though graduating at the same time a my middle daughter, lol. I wish you the best of luck!


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## Flying Crane (Jul 8, 2017)

Nobody Important said:


> Congrats! It's a tough road balancing family, school & work, but I'm sure you can do it. Just about ready to graduate with my second science degree, and already scoping out schools for my masters. I totally agree with you, I'm a much better student now than I was 20 years ago, kinda weird though graduating at the same time a my middle daughter, lol. I wish you the best of luck!


Thanks, and good luck to you too!

I have a bachelors degree in social sciences, I fell into the legal and finance world and have worked there for over twenty years. It worked well enough, but was never fulfilling.  It provided a stable income but I was never passionate about it.  Now with a layoff and severance, I am revisiting old interests that I had when I was young, realizing that maybe I didn't need to be intimidated by the math and science if I am actually interested in it.  It is exciting!


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## anerlich (Jul 8, 2017)

KPM said:


> Good for you for going back to school!  And I know from first hand experience that it isn't easy after being in the work force for awhile!  Good luck man!



After my retirement, I did and have continued to do a number of online courses from prestigious universities. I scored in the top 30 of an Android development course of four semesters with over 3000 students and won a prize as a result. I've done courses in Exercise Physiology and Psychology as well.

What can I do with this? Not really the point. I could have devoted all of my retirement to martial arts as well, but what would I have done with that? The process and the learning are where the true gold is. I train and teach martial arts four days a week, but I am glad that's not all I do. There's to much other interesting stuff out there.

I'm a student for life in the martial arts for sure. But I have other interests, and wish to be a student of them also. You only get time around to do everything..

Best of luck to my fellow students out there.


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## anerlich (Jul 8, 2017)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> Sometime, you should be able to tell whether or not it's safe to extend your arm fully. When your opponent moves back, and lose his ground. it should be safe to do so. IMO, it's better to have the ability to do both. In the above example, if I followed the WC principle, I would give up that right punch.



Yeah, there can be a time for that. You initially made it sound like it was some secret weapon that would nullify everything.


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## Yeung (Jul 9, 2017)

Ranges, grappling, inability to force an assailant to fight that are most comfortable and familiar to the practitioner, not knowing other styles, and not knowing various developments are general issues applicable to any Chinese Martial Arts. In this thread, Issues of turning and full extension of arm are relevant in differentiating from Tong Bei. But these are not vulnerability specific to Wing Chun.

I quite like to use the sets of three rings trapping the moon (san huan tao yue 三环套月) in Gong Li Quan to test the skills of Wing Chun practitioners. But incompetent practitioner of any art does not represent the art itself.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Jul 9, 2017)

Yeung said:


> I quite like to use the sets of three rings trapping the moon (san huan tao yue 三环套月) in Gong Li Quan to test the skills of Wing Chun practitioners. But incompetent practitioner of any art does not represent the art itself.


A striking MA system should include more that just jab and cross. It should include jab, cross, hook, uppercut, back fist, hammer fist, side strike, hay-maker, ...

The "三环套月(san huan tao yue) - three rings trapping the moon" is used to train a back fist that can turn into a wrist grabbing, and then set up for the next hammer fist. It's circular and not linear. IMO, all MA systems should have both linear moves and circular moves.


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## PiedmontChun (Jul 10, 2017)

Just for practicality's sake, I would say:
1) WC/WT/VT movements are very linear (even accounting for the BJ set). That itself is not a weakness; it is a strength since a straight line is usually the most efficient. However, if in training you become overly accustomed to that type of linear striking from your partner / opponent, and have no exposure to other arts that have much more circular movement, or even just some low level boxing / brawling that doesn't adhere to that...... I think it could be a hole in your fighting ability. Not in the system itself, but in a training method. This almost falls in the same category as not training with intent, or not sparring with your WC. Very narrow training habits, or bad training habits can hinder it from being effective.
2) The biggie. WC/WT/VT does not equip you when a fight goes to the ground, or even in deep clinching range. The various grappling arts like wrestling, Judo / Sambo, BJJ, catch wrestling...... even at a low level, have solutions for this. Again, I don't think the system itself is the issue. I don't fault a screwdriver for not being a good hammer as well. You likely need both in your tool belt. I think it makes more sense to try and cross train two complementary arts than to try and graft some grappling knowledge onto WC. Grappling also lets you overpower someone without having to break their nose or knock them out as well, which can be useful.

Contrary to what some say, I don't think WC lacks long range solutions. If you spar, and have training that starts outside chi-sau range.... you are training strategy against a long range striker. There's no shame in admitting WC is excellent at short range and therefore wanting to get into that range when fighting. Mixing it up with some TKD or other kung fu styles that kick a lot more wouldn't hurt though.


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## DanT (Jul 10, 2017)

The key to being proficient in a single style is having the ability to command the fight and FORCE the fight to go your way.

Let me start with a metaphor...

Does the crocodile complain that it can't leap on top of people like a tiger?

When a crocodile and a tiger fight, neither of the animals are stupid.... the crocodile tries to drag drag drag the tiger into the water, and the tiger tries to drag drag drag the crocodile out of the water.

The crocodile doesn't need to jump on top of people, it just charges forward and BANG, it bites your leg off! Does it complain? Does it say, "oh, I wish I knew how to leap in the air!" NO ABSOLUTELY NOT. Because it is so skilled at is SPECIALIZATION, namely, its bite.

Same thing with wing chun. Go find yourself a real wing chun Sifu, one who's fist is like iron, and who doesn't need anything else because the moment they decide to fight, BOOM you get hit by the punch, just like a crocodile bite, and the moment you try to change the range, they pull you back in and KEEP YOU IN THE RANGE THEY WANT YOU IN. Just like a crocodile.


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## Martial D (Jul 10, 2017)

DanT said:


> The key to being proficient in a single style is having the ability to command the fight and FORCE the fight to go your way.
> 
> Let me start with a metaphor...
> 
> ...


In an ideal world I guess. In reality the tiger will just pluck the crock out of the water and eat them at their leisure, because the tiger is very dangerous in the water too.

Make with this , metaphorically, what you will.


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## Lobo66 (Jul 11, 2017)

The problem is, DanT, that we are human and we 1) make mistakes and 2) can be manipulated, fooled, surprised etc.  

Over-specialization does not allow you a high degree of adaptability should the situation not go your way.


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## KPM (Jul 11, 2017)

*The key to being proficient in a single style is having the ability to command the fight and FORCE the fight to go your way.*

---Counting on being able to force something to go your way is not a very good strategy.   You are almost guaranteed to fail at some point, because nothing is 100%.

*Same thing with wing chun. Go find yourself a real wing chun Sifu, one who's fist is like iron, and who doesn't need anything else because the moment they decide to fight, BOOM you get hit by the punch, just like a crocodile bite, and the moment you try to change the range, they pull you back in and KEEP YOU IN THE RANGE THEY WANT YOU IN. Just like a crocodile.*

---And what happens when that doesn't work?  Better have a back-up plan!  Crocodiles miss plenty of "bites" when their target is just a bit further out.  That's like saying all a good BJJ guy needs to know is ground-fighting.  BJJ figured out they better also be able to function on their feet a long time ago!


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## DanT (Jul 11, 2017)

Lobo66 said:


> The problem is, DanT, that we are human and we 1) make mistakes and 2) can be manipulated, fooled, surprised etc.
> 
> Over-specialization does not allow you a high degree of adaptability should the situation not go your way.


While I agree you have to be dynamic and have the ability to adapt, having a specialization with a particular style is what will make you more dangerous than being a jack of all trades.


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## DanT (Jul 11, 2017)

Malos1979 said:


> A crocodile won't jump because that's it's limitation, so you are comparing this with Wing Chun, doesn't make sense at all.


It's simply a metaphor, showing how limitation for the sake of limitation is not always a bad thing.


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## Lobo66 (Jul 11, 2017)

Being a "jack of all trades" is as dangerous as being over-specialized in one area.  This is not what I am advocating.  

I, personally, focus on specialising in Ving Tsun and supplementing my training with grappling and BJJ.  
Because I know that sometimes, no matter how skilled at VT I am, I can't always determine the conditions of or dominate the fight.


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## Cephalopod (Jul 11, 2017)

don't do it, don't do it.....arghhh I can't stop myself


Martial D said:


> In an ideal world I guess. In reality the tiger will just pluck the crock out of the water and eat them at their leisure, because the tiger is very dangerous in the water too.
> 
> Make with this , metaphorically, what you will.


THAT'S NOT A TIGER!!!!!

Sorry. Pretty badass cat tho'. My lunch was considerably easier to procure.


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## Phobius (Jul 11, 2017)

Malos1979 said:


> A crocodile won't jump because that's it's limitation, so you are comparing this with Wing Chun, doesn't make sense at all.








We have a tendency to declare what is and what is not. A crocodile cares not for the limitations we claim they have.


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## Bigsarg (Jul 13, 2017)

Yeung said:


> I am not sure as some of the remarks in the forum are justifiable due to lack of proper understand of the art. Like every art there is room for improvement.




Every art has its great gifts to the martial art community. The Wing Chung Dummy is the best training tool I have used. I use it for precision while applying American Kenpo techniques. 
If you use the formula for force:
Muscle relaxation builds speed
Speed + distance = speed (distance can be replaced or & added to with other theories)
Speed + focus (aiming) = power
Power applied with penetration = force
Using the dummy in this fashion makes your training more effective. All you have to do in a real world situation is move 1 inch or so closer to an opponent and u have completed the formula with penetration.


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## Flying Crane (Jul 13, 2017)

Phobius said:


> We have a tendency to declare what is and what is not. A crocodile cares not for the limitations we claim they have.


Beautiful, and quite to the metaphor, actually.

Just when people say This or That cannot be done, well there is someone doing exactly This or That.  And it's far more common than some people want to believe.


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## Yeung (Jul 30, 2017)

The lack of proficiency in any art is vulnerable. The system of Wing Chun taught by Yip Man is very unique compare to the other schools of Wing Chun taught in Foshan, Guangzhou and Gulo Village with special focus in sticking hands to entertain the aggressor and sends him or her away. Proficiency is achieved in doing sticking hands with the teacher and fellow practitioners in attacking, defending, and encounters. This was the in house contest system from the beginning when Yip Man taught his art openly in Foshan as well as in Hong Kong. Maybe this sort of explained the lack of proficiency with Wing Chun practitioners who did not have the opportunity in such practical training. This thread has come up with a few interest topics such as Wing Chun encounters to the three rings trapping the moon (san huan tao yue 三环套月) in Gong Li Quan or long range techniques, Wing Chun linear and circular techniques, the use of Wing Chun dummy as a training tool.


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