# Training On My Own Now



## Runs With Fire (Nov 2, 2016)

I have trained in Tang Soo Do at the same school for about six years.  I earned my second dan.  About two months ago, I talked with the head master and decided to discontinue the course.  Since first dan, the black belt class has left me wanting more.  I am hungry for practical and sensible  (functional) skills.  Three points of contention exist for me.  Forms
  I understand forms have a use and purpose. But but when forms make up most of the curriculum and class/ testing time, I ask myself what the use is.
       Purpose of the school.  In the past few years, there has been a shift in the goal of the school.  Instead of creating martial artists, it is more about giving everybody an equal chance to grow and achieve. The head master has gone more the ministry route (After becoming a grandpa). There is instructor-itis.  As a way to encourage young students to stretch and grow, a vast majority of black belts and brown belts have been brought into the instrucor program.  Considering the size of the school, that's about 33 instructors and instructors in training.  Most of them are far too immature and inexperienced as non-adults.  
       Nose looker downers.  Mostly from the immaturity an lack of life experience, a number of the young instructors look down their upturned nose at the likes of me.  I don't make things look pretty. I don't make forms look beautiful.  I don't have a dainty method of performance. I love sparring.  They think it's too aggressive and distasteful (Mostly the young instructors).
       I suppose the last point would be the discouragement of competition.  In the headmaster's opinion ,fighting is wrong and competition is never against others; only against yourself.  Now I was raised with five rowdy brothers.  Competition is as essential as air.  I thrive on the adversity of a tournament.  
   I would like to find a more suitable school, but for now I am on my own.


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## Gerry Seymour (Nov 2, 2016)

Runs With Fire said:


> I have trained in Tang Soo Do at the same school for about six years.  I earned my second dan.  About two months ago, I talked with the head master and decided to discontinue the course.  Since first dan, the black belt class has left me wanting more.  I am hungry for practical and sensible  (functional) skills.  Three points of contention exist for me.  Forms
> I understand forms have a use and purpose. But but when forms make up most of the curriculum and class/ testing time, I ask myself what the use is.
> Purpose of the school.  In the past few years, there has been a shift in the goal of the school.  Instead of creating martial artists, it is more about giving everybody an equal chance to grow and achieve. The head master has gone more the ministry route (After becoming a grandpa). There is instructor-itis.  As a way to encourage young students to stretch and grow, a vast majority of black belts and brown belts have been brought into the instrucor program.  Considering the size of the school, that's about 33 instructors and instructors in training.  Most of them are far too immature and inexperienced as non-adults.
> Nose looker downers.  Mostly from the immaturity an lack of life experience, a number of the young instructors look down their upturned nose at the likes of me.  I don't make things look pretty. I don't make forms look beautiful.  I don't have a dainty method of performance. I love sparring.  They think it's too aggressive and distasteful (Mostly the young instructors).
> ...


It sounds like time to start a new phase of your journey. Training on your own gets lonely (I know this from first-hand experience). You'll probably be happier finding an instructor to work with. If there's not another TSD school in the area, then pick a new art to learn in. Starting something new from the beginning is frustrating and fun all at the same time.


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## Runs With Fire (Nov 2, 2016)

gpseymour said:


> It sounds like time to start a new phase of your journey. Training on your own gets lonely (I know this from first-hand experience). You'll probably be happier finding an instructor to work with. If there's not another TSD school in the area, then pick a new art to learn in. Starting something new from the beginning is frustrating and fun all at the same time.


Sure is.  Add to all that, I got married October 1st (to an instructor from that school ironically).  I did sign a voluntary three year contract at that school so I am continuing with my krav maga study.  I like the idea of learning a bit of BJJ.


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## Gerry Seymour (Nov 2, 2016)

Runs With Fire said:


> Sure is.  Add to all that, I got married October 1st (to an instructor from that school ironically).  I did sign a voluntary three year contract at that school so I am continuing with my krav maga study.  I like the idea of learning a bit of BJJ.


BJJ would be a very nice addition to TSD. A fairly different approach, and most of the guys I know who train in it have a lot of fun with their training. Your spouse being a TSD instructor will give you someone to practice those skills with from time to time, too - always nice.


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## Kickboxer101 (Nov 2, 2016)

Nothing wrong with that but you probably won't be Improving as much


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## marques (Nov 2, 2016)

Kickboxer101 said:


> Nothing wrong with that but you probably won't be Improving as much


That is quite clear, alone is the last option. 

BUT he doesn't want to 'improve' in the way the school is going, anyway. And the OP has an instructor at home (I suppose), so I don't know why the OP says that he will be on his own (perhaps not completely). And finally, he will be training Krav Maga. Sure, it is not the same, but he will keep active and apply some of his TSD training, potentially. Nothing dramatic. 

@Runs With Fire, you would prefer just keep training TSD as on your first years, right? Rather than be looking for second options now...


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## dancingalone (Nov 2, 2016)

I hope you find a better training situation soon.  Your problem unfortunately is a common enough one, and it spans across all the karate-related arts.

I suggest training in a boxing gym until you can find a more suitable TSD dojang.  You'll pick up some complementary skills to your TSD and there's plenty of sparring in boxing.


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## msmitht (Nov 2, 2016)

Leave the style. find one that better suits your needs. Bjj is great but will make you want to do TSD less and less.


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## Gerry Seymour (Nov 2, 2016)

msmitht said:


> Leave the style. find one that better suits your needs. Bjj is great but will make you want to do TSD less and less.


Not necessarily. It may make him want to incorporate key parts of his TSD more and more. BJJ doesn't replace a striking art.


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## Runs With Fire (Nov 2, 2016)

msmitht said:


> Leave the style. find one that better suits your needs. Bjj is great but will make you want to do TSD less and less.


I am a stand up fighter. Bjj won't change that. My father taught me to box when I was a kid.  Black belts in TSD, TKD, KM, and a jujitsu/kenpo program just reinforced it.  I'd like a bit more grappling because it sounds fun and potentially useful.


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## Runs With Fire (Nov 2, 2016)

marques said:


> @Runs With Fire, you would prefer just keep training TSD as on your first years, right? Rather than be looking for second options now...


Not necessarily.


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## marques (Nov 2, 2016)

Runs With Fire said:


> Not necessarily.


So you are ready to change. Again.


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## Gerry Seymour (Nov 2, 2016)

Runs With Fire said:


> I am a stand up fighter. Bjj won't change that. My father taught me to box when I was a kid.  Black belts in TSD, TKD, KM, and a jujitsu/kenpo program just reinforced it.  I'd like a bit more grappling because it sounds fun and potentially useful.


It will be highly useful, especially something like BJJ that forces you to the ground. It will teach you how to get back up (to get back to your striking game), as well as how to not end up on the ground in the first place even if your striking fails. IMO, every striker should train a bit in something that involves putting people to the ground and/or fighting on the ground. It's a change of perspective that improves the striking game and adds some key principles you don't have the opportunity to practice unless someone good at grappling is trying to throw you.


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## msmitht (Nov 2, 2016)

Runs With Fire said:


> I am a stand up fighter. Bjj won't change that. My father taught me to box when I was a kid.  Black belts in TSD, TKD, KM, and a jujitsu/kenpo program just reinforced it.  I'd like a bit more grappling because it sounds fun and potentially useful.


You misunderstood .  I did not suggest that you would stop being a stand up fighter. I meant that due to the very practical nature of BJJ you might not want to do tsd anymore.


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## Gerry Seymour (Nov 2, 2016)

msmitht said:


> You misunderstood .  I did not suggest that you would stop being a stand up fighter. I meant that due to the very practical nature of BJJ you might not want to do tsd anymore.


I'm not sure about that. I know at least one TSD instructor (not sure he's teaching any more - a guy I went to college with) who was pretty practical in his approach to the art. With a practical approach to TSD, BJJ makes a great complement to it.


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## Flying Crane (Nov 2, 2016)

msmitht said:


> You misunderstood .  I did not suggest that you would stop being a stand up fighter. I meant that due to the very practical nature of BJJ you might not want to do tsd anymore.


spending some time with BJJ can also convince one that one has no interest in it.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Nov 2, 2016)

Runs With Fire said:


> I have trained in Tang Soo Do at the same school for about six years.


May be it's time to test your skill against people from other MA systems.

You just can't depend on your instructor all your life. Soon or later your instructor will be old and passes away, and you will be alone by yourself. If you have learned enough from your instructor, you should have enough information to train by yourself for the rest of your life. Of course it's better to have a training partner.

- There is a time to read books. There is a time to write books.
- There is time to learn your MA system. There is time to test your skill against people from other MA systems.


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## msmitht (Nov 3, 2016)

Flying Crane said:


> spending some time with BJJ can also convince one that one has no interest in it.


Yes. we have many martial art instructors who come in and never return. maybe they stay for a year or two, to get to blue belt, but then leave. I was one but I stayed.
"...I chose the one less travelled by and that has made all the difference."


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## msmitht (Nov 3, 2016)

gpseymour said:


> I'm not sure about that. I know at least one TSD instructor (not sure he's teaching any more - a guy I went to college with) who was pretty practical in his approach to the art. With a practical approach to TSD, BJJ makes a great complement to it.


We had a guy come in and was warming up before bjj class doing bassai and nahanchi. A few blue and purple belts were giggling when a 2 stripe black belt walk over to the newbie and joined in. within 5 minutes 12 high level bjj guys were doing Bassai. 5 were old shotokan black belts, one a 3rd Dan. the rest were TSD or old school TKD. 
After a good 10 minutes we started bjj class and learned something practical.


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## Flying Crane (Nov 3, 2016)

msmitht said:


> Yes. we have many martial art instructors who come in and never return. maybe they stay for a year or two, to get to blue belt, but then leave. I was one but I stayed.
> "...I chose the one less travelled by and that has made all the difference."


Sure, and I don't mean to diminish BJJ, but it has sort of become the standard answer that we see a lot.  There is sense in it in terms of becoming a well-rounded martial artist, but it seems many people just make an assumption that everyone should and needs and wants to do it.  Not all of us want to do it, not all of us have any interest in it, regardless of whatever value the experience may potentially hold.


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## JowGaWolf (Nov 3, 2016)

Runs With Fire said:


> I have trained in Tang Soo Do at the same school for about six years.  I earned my second dan.  About two months ago, I talked with the head master and decided to discontinue the course.  Since first dan, the black belt class has left me wanting more.  I am hungry for practical and sensible  (functional) skills.  Three points of contention exist for me.  Forms
> I understand forms have a use and purpose. But but when forms make up most of the curriculum and class/ testing time, I ask myself what the use is.
> Purpose of the school.  In the past few years, there has been a shift in the goal of the school.  Instead of creating martial artists, it is more about giving everybody an equal chance to grow and achieve. The head master has gone more the ministry route (After becoming a grandpa). There is instructor-itis.  As a way to encourage young students to stretch and grow, a vast majority of black belts and brown belts have been brought into the instrucor program.  Considering the size of the school, that's about 33 instructors and instructors in training.  Most of them are far too immature and inexperienced as non-adults.
> Nose looker downers.  Mostly from the immaturity an lack of life experience, a number of the young instructors look down their upturned nose at the likes of me.  I don't make things look pretty. I don't make forms look beautiful.  I don't have a dainty method of performance. I love sparring.  They think it's too aggressive and distasteful (Mostly the young instructors).
> ...


Your training focus is not in alignment with their teaching focus and there's nothing wrong with that.  I'm always running my mouth about the importance of training martial arts based on the purpose in which it is to be used.  Your focus seems to be more aligned with self-defense or competitive sparring (Lei Tai or continuous sparring).  If there is another school that has that focus then you can just change schools.  Changing schools will allow you to build on your existing techniques.  If there isn't another school then you would need to find one that teaches with the focus of self-defense and competitive sparring.

Just from my own experience in my style.  Training Jow Ga to do the forms correctly is not the same as training Jow Ga for self-defense.  A brand new world opens up when a student trains with the focus of self-defense.


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## Gerry Seymour (Nov 3, 2016)

msmitht said:


> We had a guy come in and was warming up before bjj class doing bassai and nahanchi. A few blue and purple belts were giggling when a 2 stripe black belt walk over to the newbie and joined in. within 5 minutes 12 high level bjj guys were doing Bassai. 5 were old shotokan black belts, one a 3rd Dan. the rest were TSD or old school TKD.
> After a good 10 minutes we started bjj class and learned something practical.


I'm not sure what that has to do with my comment. My point was that TSD can be taught with a practical approach and intent. In that case, there's no reason BJJ's practicality would be much of a surprise.


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## TMA17 (Jun 11, 2018)

gpseymour said:


> I'm not sure about that. I know at least one TSD instructor (not sure he's teaching any more - a guy I went to college with) who was pretty practical in his approach to the art. With a practical approach to TSD, BJJ makes a great complement to it.



I don't know how good this school is, but they incorprate some basic BJJ.


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## JowGaWolf (Jun 11, 2018)

Runs With Fire said:


> it is more about giving everybody an equal chance to grow and achieve.


I can't stand when people get like this.  There is no equal growth and achievement when it comes to personal development.  Self-development is not a comparison challenge.


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## JowGaWolf (Jun 11, 2018)

Flying Crane said:


> Sure, and I don't mean to diminish BJJ, but it has sort of become the standard answer that we see a lot.  There is sense in it in terms of becoming a well-rounded martial artist, but it seems many people just make an assumption that everyone should and needs and wants to do it.  Not all of us want to do it, not all of us have any interest in it, regardless of whatever value the experience may potentially hold.


I'm one of those people.  I try to find solution within my own system.  As long as I'm able to find a viable solution then I'll keep at it.  The only grappling system that I want to take now is shuai jiao.

Eventually I'll probably end up learning a little BJJ, but for now that's way down the road if at all.


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## JowGaWolf (Jun 11, 2018)

just realized this is an old post


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## dvcochran (Jun 11, 2018)

Runs With Fire said:


> I have trained in Tang Soo Do at the same school for about six years.  I earned my second dan.  About two months ago, I talked with the head master and decided to discontinue the course.  Since first dan, the black belt class has left me wanting more.  I am hungry for practical and sensible  (functional) skills.  Three points of contention exist for me.  Forms
> I understand forms have a use and purpose. But but when forms make up most of the curriculum and class/ testing time, I ask myself what the use is.
> Purpose of the school.  In the past few years, there has been a shift in the goal of the school.  Instead of creating martial artists, it is more about giving everybody an equal chance to grow and achieve. The head master has gone more the ministry route (After becoming a grandpa). There is instructor-itis.  As a way to encourage young students to stretch and grow, a vast majority of black belts and brown belts have been brought into the instrucor program.  Considering the size of the school, that's about 33 instructors and instructors in training.  Most of them are far too immature and inexperienced as non-adults.
> Nose looker downers.  Mostly from the immaturity an lack of life experience, a number of the young instructors look down their upturned nose at the likes of me.  I don't make things look pretty. I don't make forms look beautiful.  I don't have a dainty method of performance. I love sparring.  They think it's too aggressive and distasteful (Mostly the young instructors).
> ...



You are 2nd Dan, are you not teaching at some level? If your school if full of people younger (much younger?) than you I can certainly see your quandary. A grappling style would certainly compliment your TSD. If there are no other TSD dojangs in your area the most similar would be TKD particularly Moo Duk Kwan.


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## Deafdude#5 (Jun 12, 2018)

You’re newly married and your spouse is also an instructor at this school? Do you not train with them?

Have you talked to them about your feelings and thoughts on this?



dvcochran said:


> You are 2nd Dan, are you not teaching at some level? If your school if full of people younger (much younger?) than you I can certainly see your quandary. A grappling style would certainly compliment your TSD. If there are no other TSD dojangs in your area the most similar would be TKD particularly Moo Duk Kwan.



This may be an opportunity for you to consider. Expand your horizons. Perhaps your spouse would be interested in this as well.


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## Runs With Fire (Jun 12, 2018)

Deafdude#5 said:


> You’re newly married and your spouse is also an instructor at this school? Do you not train with them?
> 
> Have you talked to them about your feelings and thoughts on this?
> 
> ...



This thread was started two years ago, but I'll play ball.  When I'm on the floor, I get serious.  I don't like to play around.  I'm no jerk, but the people who can't be serious just grind my gears.  I started at 20 years old.  For most of the time, I was the oldest student, most were 13-15 years old.  My wife teaches 1st-3rd grade in a school PE "enrichment program" once a week. She chose martial arts out of tennis and dancing.  I chose martial arts because I got in a bad situation She does martial arts for fun and sociality.  I train for preparedness, don't care about fun.  She hates sparring and grappling because it's so confrontational.   Most of the black belt study is working on forms.  For my purposes, forms are mostly a useless waste of time.  They have no practicality outside of the dojo.  They are only usefull in a forms competition.


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## Tony Dismukes (Jun 12, 2018)

Runs With Fire said:


> This thread was started two years ago, but I'll play ball.  When I'm on the floor, I get serious.  I don't like to play around.  I'm no jerk, but the people who can't be serious just grind my gears.  I started at 20 years old.  For most of the time, I was the oldest student, most were 13-15 years old.  My wife teaches 1st-3rd grade in a school PE "enrichment program" once a week. She chose martial arts out of tennis and dancing.  I chose martial arts because I got in a bad situation She does martial arts for fun and sociality.  I train for preparedness, don't care about fun.  She hates sparring and grappling because it's so confrontational.   Most of the black belt study is working on forms.  For my purposes, forms are mostly a useless waste of time.  They have no practicality outside of the dojo.  They are only usefull in a forms competition.


I’ve probably missed an update along the way, but what is your training situation now?


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## Runs With Fire (Jun 12, 2018)

Tony Dismukes said:


> I’ve probably missed an update along the way, but what is your training situation now?


I train Krav in a school once or twice a week 2hrs  as work and family allow.  I work on combat accuracy and draw/fire with my pistols as well as well as general handgun handling.  Took a few firearms courses recently.  General exersise, cardio with a bit of light streangth training in there too


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## watching (Aug 24, 2018)

If I were you, I would try a second MA to study now. It's not like you will be giving up your black belt or throwing away everything you've learned. You could take some time to expand your skills and find a school that values the same things as you. It seems to me that many schools out there love competing and going to tournaments (not really a huge deal to me).


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## kitkatninja (Dec 13, 2018)

I know this is an old thread, but I wanted to know, out of curiosity...



Runs With Fire said:


> ...Since first dan, the black belt class has left me wanting more.  I am hungry for practical and sensible  (functional) skills.  Three points of contention exist for me.  Forms  I understand forms have a use and purpose. But but when forms make up most of the curriculum and class/ testing time, I ask myself what the use is...



How were you learning the forms?  As there are alot of techniques in forms apart from kicking and punching...  For example there is throwing, trapping, joint locks, holds, gouging, breaking, etc...  The closest example of how we are taught the applications for forms is this from Iain Abernathy.


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## Bruce7 (Dec 13, 2018)

watching said:


> If I were you, I would try a second MA to study now. It's not like you will be giving up your black belt or throwing away everything you've learned. You could take some time to expand your skills and find a school that values the same things as you. It seems to me that many schools out there love competing and going to tournaments (not really a huge deal to me).



I agree,  when I join the Navy there was no Taekwondo schools where I was station, so I train in Kung Fu long fist. It was the same but different. Learning a new Martial Art added to my skills, it did not diminish my Taekwondo skills. It made me a much better Martial Artist. Most of the best grand-masters knew other Martial Arts ,than the one they taught.
Kung Fu taught me how to slip kicks and punches, how to redirect the force of the attack. It made me look at things from a different perspective,  It made me a much better fighter. 

I feel for the person who started the post. I have trained in schools I though were lacking, so I quit and train on my own, I never could do it for very long. Training on your own is very hard, I have tried it many times. The discipline to train with no human interaction is very hard.


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## Bruce7 (Dec 13, 2018)

kitkatninja said:


> I know this is an old thread, but I wanted to know, out of curiosity...
> 
> 
> 
> How were you learning the forms?  As there are alot of techniques in forms apart from kicking and punching...  For example there is throwing, trapping, joint locks, holds, gouging, breaking, etc...  The closest example of how we are taught the applications for forms is this from Iain Abernathy.



I agree with what you are saying, but what I really like is the this link.


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