# Chow interview



## The Kai

I don't how many of you read Black Belt magazine.  In this month's issue they had a 20 year interview with GM William KS Chow.
Highlights.  Well Chow seemed to dismiss any of the people that were renouned for studying with him.  Called Mitose a fraud, a Con (big surprise), also big on the idea that he (chow) at one timed kicked Mitose's bodyguards a**.  Proclaimed himself a 15th degree.  He also said a guy by the name of Jacob (the interviewer did'nt give last name) as his inheritor (de jour).  Who was/is Jacob??


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## Rick Wade

Hey I don't have access to BB magazine right now I am currently in Iraq could I talk anyone into scanning in the article and emailit to me?

V/R

Rick English


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## koga ha

The Kai said:
			
		

> I don't how many of you read Black Belt magazine. In this month's issue they had a 20 year interview with GM William KS Chow.
> Highlights. Well Chow seemed to dismiss any of the people that were renouned for studying with him. Called Mitose a fraud, a Con (big surprise), also big on the idea that he (chow) at one timed kicked Mitose's bodyguards a**. Proclaimed himself a 15th degree. He also said a guy by the name of Jacob (the interviewer did'nt give last name) as his inheritor (de jour). Who was/is Jacob??


where do you get this stuff from?  a cracker jack box?  oh, black belt magazine.


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## The Kai

I know the reliablity of Black Belt has suffered since Durbin quit publishing his story articles.


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## dsp921

I saw the article and was wondering how reliabe the author was.  I was not surprised by the things Chow said about Mitose, but I was surprised by what he had to say about Parker.  I know they didn't part on the best of terms but his comments still were harsher than I would have expected.  

Rick, I should be able to scan the article as a couple of jpegs and forward them to you if you want.


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## koga ha

dsp921 said:
			
		

> I saw the article and was wondering how reliabe the author was. I was not surprised by the things Chow said about Mitose, but I was surprised by what he had to say about Parker. I know they didn't part on the best of terms but his comments still were harsher than I would have expected.
> 
> Rick, I should be able to scan the article as a couple of jpegs and forward them to you if you want.


if true, i am very surprised what chow said about mitose.  i wouldn't be to surprised about the parker comments.


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## The Kai

Why?  Chow was always arrogently dismissive of Mitose.  There truely seems to be no lost love there


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## koga ha

The Kai said:
			
		

> I know the reliablity of Black Belt has suffered since Durbin quit publishing his story articles.


off topic...i see that you have training under juchnik.  now i get why you are so angry at the koga ha ryu...it's not your fault you spent a lot of time, money, and effort learning some made-up system of ma.  

i think there is a thread on here called stoog foo


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## koga ha

The Kai said:
			
		

> Why? Chow was always arrogently dismissive of Mitose. There truely seems to be no lost love there


are you talking on a personal level or professional (ma)? 

personally, chow could have disliked mitose.  professionally, i would question that.


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## dsp921

koga ha said:
			
		

> are you talking on a personal level or professional (ma)?
> 
> personally, chow could have disliked mitose. professionally, i would question that.


If the interview is accurate with the quotes, and Chow did make the comments written, it would seem that Prof Chow didn't think highly of Mitose on either level, but that's just my read.


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## koga ha

dsp921 said:
			
		

> If the interview is accurate with the quotes, and Chow did make the comments written, it would seem that Prof Chow didn't think highly of Mitose on either level, but that's just my read.


i really, really have a hard time believing the article.

someone post it up, so we can see what it reads.


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## The Kai

koga ha said:
			
		

> off topic...i see that you have training under juchnik. now i get why you are so angry at the koga ha ryu...it's not your fault you spent a lot of time, money, and effort learning some made-up system of ma.
> 
> i think there is a thread on here called stoog foo


Actually, Bruce Juchnik is a stand up guy.  I would say, in spite of the controversy that surround him he is a great teacher.  Koga ha I'm not angry, just a kind of "bitter amusement".  There are a ton of ideas that Mr Juchnik teachs that are applicable to a wide range of arts...

Have you had any legitimate training??


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## Ray

I don't have the latest copy either.  Can you tell me who the author of the article is?

There was a man named Perkins that I bumped into several years ago who is/was a contributing writer to MA mags.  He said he was once a student of Mr. Chow's and that a young man named Jacob (or Joshua?) was picked by Chow as a successor.


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## The Kai

I'm pretty sure the name was William Perkins on the authorship


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## dsp921

Yup it was Perkins, but Jim, not William.


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## Gentle Fist

Who was/is Jacob is my question as well?


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## Ray

The Kai said:
			
		

> I'm pretty sure the name was William Perkins on the authorship


If it's the same Perkins (and I'm getting so old, I thought I recalled his first name as Jim), he was teaching as "Perkins Hawaiian Kenpo" in Des Moines back in 1996.


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## Ray

fistlaw720 said:
			
		

> Who was/is Jacob is my question as well?


According to my recollection of what I was told, Jacob was a kid somewhere in the age of 16 to 18 years old at the time.

Perkins told me that he (both Perkins and Jacob) was in one of the last groups of students that Chow taught.


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## koga ha

The Kai said:
			
		

> Actually, Bruce Juchnik is a stand up guy. I would say, in spite of the controversy that surround him he is a great teacher. Koga ha I'm not angry, just a kind of "bitter amusement". There are a ton of ideas that Mr Juchnik teachs that are applicable to a wide range of arts...
> 
> Have you had any legitimate training??


well, this stand up guy fraudulently posed as someone who was trained in kempo and taught masses of people like yourself.    

the real tragety here is the fact that people in "juchniks" system know absoulutely nothing about kempo.  

however, people got a tremendous lesson in imagination and how it works.  i think you hit the nail on the head when you said, "there are a ton of ideas..." because that's all they are, ideas...really.

all jokes aside, what juchnik teaches is fake and could cost his students more than just money.  

i'm sure some of his ex-students would back me up or maybe not because this is one place where you all hang out and talk about kempo. 

yes i have legitimate training.


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## dsp921

Ray said:
			
		

> According to my recollection of what I was told, Jacob was a kid somewhere in the age of 16 to 18 years old at the time.
> 
> Perkins told me that he (both Perkins and Jacob) was in one of the last groups of students that Chow taught.


The interview is from 1986, in it Perkins says that he was in Hawaii for 5 months, hardly enough time to claim to be Prof. Chow's student (in my opinion).  He also says that Jacob was 29 at the time.


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## Ray

dsp921 said:
			
		

> The interview is from 1986, in it Perkins says that he was in Hawaii for 5 months, hardly enough time to claim to be Prof. Chow's student (in my opinion). He also says that Jacob was 29 at the time.


I can't dispute what you say, I'm going by my recollection of conversations with Perkins back in 1996.  I believe I may have worked out with Perkins twice and had short conversations afterwards.  He also gave me some xerox's of some of his articles.


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## dsp921

Ray said:
			
		

> I can't dispute what you say, I'm going by my recollection of conversations with Perkins back in 1996. I believe I may have worked out with Perkins twice and had short conversations afterwards. He also gave me some xerox's of some of his articles.


Your memory is pretty good for conversations that are 10 years old. I don't mean to try to correct you or agrue with what you remember. I just read the interview so it's fresh in my mind.


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## Ray

dsp921 said:
			
		

> Your memory is pretty good for conversations that are 10 years old. I don't mean to try to correct you or agrue with what you remember. I just read the interview so it's fresh in my mind.


Thanks, but my memory gets worse by the week.  Does Jim's article say anything about Chow being reduced to collecting bottles and teaching MA for his support?  Supposedly he was bitter about the success of his students and his lack of; and that's some of the reason for his remarks about parker; but I understand he just loathed Mitose.


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## dsp921

Ray said:
			
		

> Thanks, but my memory gets worse by the week. Does Jim's article say anything about Chow being reduced to collecting bottles and teaching MA for his support? Supposedly he was bitter about the success of his students and his lack of; and that's some of the reason for his remarks about parker; but I understand he just loathed Mitose.


No, no mention of collecting bottles.  It's basically a transcript of a conversation they had one day after a class.  There is a part where Chow says something about everyone claiming to be his BB just to make money, though.  It's not really that long of an interview.


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## The Kai

koga ha said:
			
		

> well, this stand up guy fraudulently posed as someone who was trained in kempo and taught masses of people like yourself.
> 
> the real tragety here is the fact that people in "juchniks" system know absoulutely nothing about kempo.
> 
> however, people got a tremendous lesson in imagination and how it works. i think you hit the nail on the head when you said, "there are a ton of ideas..." because that's all they are, ideas...really.
> 
> all jokes aside, what juchnik teaches is fake and could cost his students more than just money.
> 
> i'm sure some of his ex-students would back me up or maybe not because this is one place where you all hang out and talk about kempo.
> 
> yes i have legitimate training.


 
So a guy who had like 9 months of training, knows all about Kempo, huh??

Anyhow, I'm not really one of Bruce Juchnik's students-so I won't assume to tell you about his style training
Can you tell  me where you got your legitimate training at???


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## dsp921

fistlaw720 said:
			
		

> Who was/is Jacob is my question as well?


Yeah, that is something I'm pretty curious about as well.  It says that Jacob was Chow's student from the time he was 5 years old, he was 29 when the interview took place in '86.  You'd think we'd have heard of him by now.  Maybe it isn't his real name?


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## The Kai

I thought it kinda odd that you never hear of jacob So and so being associated with Chow.  At the time he had trained 24 years so it's hard to imagine that he would dissappear


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## Michael Billings

====================
  Mod. Note. 
  Please, keep the conversation on topic.

  -Michael Billings
  -MT S-Moderator-
  ====================


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## koga ha

The Kai said:
			
		

> So a guy who had like 9 months of training, knows all about Kempo, huh??
> 
> Anyhow, I'm not really one of Bruce Juchnik's students-so I won't assume to tell you about his style training
> Can you tell me where you got your legitimate training at???


i was waiting for someone to post up this interview, article of chow...i guess we are still off topic.

well, on your site it said you trained with juchnik.  you (assuming) wrote it and now you are not one of his students?!?  you know you claim juchnik and pass on his ideas.  

i'll entertain your question (you know who i am).  i receive training in philly.


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## Rick Wade

The Kai said:
			
		

> I thought it kinda odd that you never hear of jacob So and so being associated with Chow.  At the time he had trained 24 years so it's hard to imagine that he would dissappear



Not everyone has a desire to teach I met a guy in another for of Kenpo that had been studying for over thirty years and I asked him what degree he was he said 1st degree.  So I then ask was that thirty years of continuous training he said yes.   After several more questions and answers he basically said I just want to learn, I dont want to teach, I dont even want a belt but it holds my Gi top closed.  I agree with most of his philosophy with the exception of teaching.

Maybe Jacob had a similar philosophy.  If anyone can dig up Jacobs last name I am sure he still lives in Hawaii I will try to look him up I will as all of the old timers and try to talk to him and report back.  That is of course when I get back to Hawaii.

V/R

Rick


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## Ray

The Kai said:
			
		

> I thought it kinda odd that you never hear of jacob So and so being associated with Chow. At the time he had trained 24 years so it's hard to imagine that he would dissappear


I'm on thin ice with this recollection: it had something to do with Kuoha having the monetary resources to "take over" Kara-ho and Jacob not having the resources.


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## The Kai

I'm sorry Mr Juchnik was an important influence, since I don't really follow his system, I should'nt list myself as a member of his ryu.  However I think highly enough of him to mention it.  I sorry if this confused anyone.
Before i get too bad with things I'll leave things where they are at...


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## Michael Billings

Bruce Juchnik is not the topic.  Please either go with the Chow/Mitose Black Belt article, or reactivate one of the old, old, old, old, old Bruce Juchnik contraversy threads.

 Thanks, 
 -Michael Billings-
 -MT Super Moderator-


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## Thunderbolt

I read this article a few hours ago in a public library. If you are interested in the history of kenpo/kempo and are open-minded, this is a MUST read article even though it's short so that you can have a good understanding of what really HAPPENED in this past. Of course, you can have a picture of *present* and *future* in kenpo/kempo.

You have heard what other said why don't you see what Chow had to say.? it's interesting 

In all BB magzine articles, this is THE FIRST and only ONE which I read.


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## Gentle Fist

Jacob Goetz? He is listed under Master Bill Chun Jr, who studied under Professor Chow.​


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## John Bishop

fistlaw720 said:
			
		

> Jacob Goetz? He is listed under Master Bill Chun Jr, who studied under Professor Chow.​


The Jacob Goetz I know in No. Calif. (Under Bill Chun Jr.)  is in his late teens or early 20's.


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## Ray

fistlaw720 said:
			
		

> Jacob Goetz? He is listed under Master Bill Chun Jr, who studied under Professor Chow.​​


Gosh, I'm only an hour and a half from Des Moines.  Maybe I should reacquaint myself with Mr Perkins--I can't substantiate his accounts, but I can probably pass them on?​


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## tshadowchaser

Ray,
that would be nice if you could get togeather with him again and discuss the article  then let us know what he had to say


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## dsp921

Ray said:
			
		

> Gosh, I'm only an hour and a half from Des Moines. Maybe I should reacquaint myself with Mr Perkins--I can't substantiate his accounts, but I can probably pass them on?[/left]


At least find out who Jacob is.....


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## Doc

koga ha said:
			
		

> i was waiting for someone to post up this interview, article of chow...i guess we are still off topic.
> 
> well, on your site it said you trained with juchnik.  you (assuming) wrote it and now you are not one of his students?!?  you know you claim juchnik and pass on his ideas.
> 
> i'll entertain your question (you know who i am).  i receive training in philly.


Well considering copyright issues, I've posted a "synopsis" of the interview on another thread.


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## Jeff Boler

koga ha said:
			
		

> i'll entertain your question (you know who i am).  i receive training in philly.



Legitimate training he said, not the training of Imaguiltymurderer Ryu.  I find it hilarious that you consider yourself legitimately trained, yet your instructor (also your father) had to go find someone to write his history for him.

You have some serious issues if you are questioning anyone's credentials, knowing full well who you study under.


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## BlackCatBonz

koga ha said:
			
		

> well, this stand up guy fraudulently posed as someone who was trained in kempo and taught masses of people like yourself.
> 
> the real tragety here is the fact that people in "juchniks" system know absoulutely nothing about kempo.
> 
> however, people got a tremendous lesson in imagination and how it works. i think you hit the nail on the head when you said, "there are a ton of ideas..." because that's all they are, ideas...really.
> 
> all jokes aside, what juchnik teaches is fake and could cost his students more than just money.
> 
> i'm sure some of his ex-students would back me up or maybe not because this is one place where you all hang out and talk about kempo.
> 
> *yes i have legitimate training*.


hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha


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## The Kai

BlackCatBonz said:
			
		

> hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha


I thought you'd get a kick out of that!!!


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## Jeff Boler

> the real tragety here is the fact that people in "juchniks" system know absoulutely nothing about kempo.



No, the real TRAGETY is that some people on this board have no concept of proper spelling.  ABSOULUTELY none.


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## BlackCatBonz

i think the biggest TRAGETY is........people carrying on a charade even after 99.99% of people know its a load of bull


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## Doc

Gentlemen - I am NOT a moderator - However is this a useful conversation? Clearly there are some that believe in Bruce. Let them. Those that do, clearly you are on a forum that is not interested, and is not the topic of discussion. Let it go please. This conversation is not going to get any better and serves no positive purpose.


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## Michael Billings

To those who have chosen to disregard my previous warning - Bruce Juchnik is not the topic. Please either go with the Chow/Mitose Black Belt article, or reactivate one of the old, old, old, old, old Bruce Juchnik contraversy threads.

 I will lock the thread if you continue to hijack the thread.

   -Michael Billings-
   -MT Super Moderator-


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## Michael Billings

Please keep the discussion at a mature, respectful level. Please review our sniping policy. http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=314 Feel free to use the Ignore feature to ignore members whose posts you do not wish to read (it is at the bottom of each member's profile). Thank you.

  -Michael Billings
  -MT Super Moderator-


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## Doc

Michael Billings said:
			
		

> Please keep the discussion at a mature, respectful level. Please review our sniping policy. http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=314 Feel free to use the Ignore feature to ignore members whose posts you do not wish to read (it is at the bottom of each member's profile). Thank you.
> 
> -Michael Billings
> -MT Super Moderator-


Didn't mean to step on your toes sir, but it does get old. I pefer the exchange of information and productive discussions as most do.


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## Michael Billings

Doc said:
			
		

> Didn't mean to step on your toes sir, but it does get old. I pefer the exchange of information and productive discussions as most do.


 I am 100% with you Doc.  I appreciated your post.  Be careful, that was why I got this darn job.  Trust me, being a Mod is no fun at all, but ya gotta give to get.  I appreciate any member who goes out of their way to help the Board.

 Kudos,
 -Michael


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## dianhsuhe

I went to the bookstore and read this BB article.... Pretty interesting interview!

  I had always thought Ed Parker was a brown belt when he came to the mainland, but Professor said he was a purple belt?  Anybody else heard this previously?

  I will ask Grandmaster Kuoha if he knows who "Jacob" is when I see him next- maybe he can shed some light on this interview.

Take care everyone, and thanks for the heads=up on the interview,  I rarely pick up BB magazine anymore--- too many ads and too little content.

Cheers,
James


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## TChase

dianhsuhe said:
			
		

> I went to the bookstore and read this BB article.... Pretty interesting interview!
> 
> I had always thought Ed Parker was a brown belt when he came to the mainland, but Professor said he was a purple belt? Anybody else heard this previously?
> 
> I will ask Grandmaster Kuoha if he knows who "Jacob" is when I see him next- maybe he can shed some light on this interview.
> 
> Take care everyone, and thanks for the heads=up on the interview, I rarely pick up BB magazine anymore--- too many ads and too little content.
> 
> Cheers,
> James


 
Chow didn't say Parker was a purple belt when he came to the mainland.  He said Parker got to purple belt under him, then started working with Emperado.


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## 47MartialMan

In reference to BB magazine (which up until 5 years ago, I stopped getting them-(actually, subscriptions to this and other mags were xmas gifts from either my bro or sis), I believe its content has been spiralling down. Once in awhile, I will browse it on a newsstand, but return it to the shelf. One I do like is the "Asian Journal"


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## dianhsuhe

Mr. Chase,

  Oh, that makes sense then -


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## Ray

47MartialMan said:
			
		

> In reference to BB magazine... I believe its content has been spiralling down. Once in awhile, I will browse it on a newsstand, but return it to the shelf.


For me BB mag is like a twinkie, sometimes they are tempting and I get one.  After consuming it, I feel it was a waste of $.


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## Kenpodoc

I thought the purple comment was amusing since I don't believe they had colors other than white brown and black.

Jeff


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## Doc

Kenpodoc said:
			
		

> I thought the purple comment was amusing since I don't believe they had colors other than white brown and black.
> 
> Jeff


Actually sir, they did have and used colored belts in the islands, including William Chow. The misunderstanding comes from the fact that when Parker first came to the mainland, he didn't use colored belts for a time, opting instead for "tips" on a white belt up to brown. The length of time it took to get from white to black was so short, buying a different color belt seemed "excessively unnecessary."


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## Jeff Boler

Doc said:
			
		

> Gentlemen - I am NOT a moderator - However is this a useful conversation? Clearly there are some that believe in Bruce. Let them. Those that do, clearly you are on a forum that is not interested, and is not the topic of discussion. Let it go please. This conversation is not going to get any better and serves no positive purpose.



No offense, but that's quite an arrogant statement to make.  I looked at the name of the forum, and no where does it stated that Bruce Juchnik cannot be brought up.  However, I did see where it stated "Kosho Ryu" under the forum description, which Juchnik claims some rights to. Also...I didn't see any post that stated that you alone dictate what is, and isn't interesting to forum readers.  

As to whether or not it has to deal with the topic of discussion, I disagree.  Chow mentioned Mitose in the interview, and Juchnik claims lineage to Mitose, therfore, the arguement could be made either way.


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## Bode

Mr. Boler, the Moderator's had this to say:



> Please keep the discussion at a mature, respectful level. Please review our sniping policy. http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=314 Feel free to use the Ignore feature to ignore members whose posts you do not wish to read (it is at the bottom of each member's profile). Thank you.
> 
> -Michael Billings
> -MT Super Moderator-


 Perhaps you jumped the gun a bit on the disagreement with Doc. Read the entire thread before posting.


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## Jeff Boler

No, I did read the entire thread.  Although I think the sniping policy does apply to comments I made against the Koga Ha contigent, I do not think it's anybody's place to determine what is, and isn't, interesting to an entire forum of people.


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## Thunderbolt

dianhsuhe said:
			
		

> I will ask Grandmaster Kuoha if he knows who "Jacob" is when I see him next- maybe he can shed some light on this interview.
> 
> Cheers,
> James


i don'tunerstand why you need to *ask* him when you *see* him next time WHEN he is one of members and has a few posts here.?

perhaps, he will shed some light on this interview in this forum 

Can't wait to learn more.


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## Pacificshore

Thunderbolt said:
			
		

> i don'tunerstand why you need to *ask* him when you *see* him next time WHEN he is one of members and has a few posts here.?
> 
> perhaps, he will shed some light on this interview in this forum
> 
> Can't wait to learn more.


Perhaps it's because dianhsuhe has not has never heard of "Jacob" like other members here on the forum, therefore the need to *ask*.  
As for the next time dianhsuhe *see's* Grandmaster Kuoha, unless you know both of these mens schedules, maybe you can shed some light as to what you are inferring by *your* comment???

Otherwise we will all just have to wait on a response.


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## Ray

Jeff Boler said:
			
		

> No, I did read the entire thread. Although I think the sniping policy does apply to comments I made against the Koga Ha contigent, I do not think it's anybody's place to determine what is, and isn't, interesting to an entire forum of people.


You may be right about whether or not someone knows what's interesting.  Someone "owns" this forum and has appointed people to be responsbilities as moderators.  Although others, like me and you, get to post things and read other people's posts we should try to keep in mind that we're guests.

It's kind of like "letters to the editor" at a newspaper, or trying to get an article published---the editor's decide what gets printed and what doesn't.

When people talk about "freedom of the press" it means we're free to set up our own means of distributing our opinions (at our own expense) without gov't interference (in most cases).  Then we can make the rules.  That's the way I see it anyway.


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## MJS

Just to clarify a few issues here.  The title of this thread is about the Chow interview.  The original poster posted this to have a discussion on that topic.  When other topics are brought into the discussion, it takes away from the main purpose of the thread.  There have been other threads that have been dedicated to Bruce Juchnik.  Anyone that feels like discussing him can A) revive one of those old threads or B) start a new thread to discuss Bruce.

For the 3rd time and before this thread gets locked:


Mod. Note. 
Please, keep the conversation on topic..

-MJS
-MT Moderator-


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## Doc

Jeff Boler said:
			
		

> No, I did read the entire thread.  Although I think the sniping policy does apply to comments I made against the Koga Ha contigent, I do not think it's anybody's place to determine what is, and isn't, interesting to an entire forum of people.


Mr. Boler, I was not making a determination but simple observations that you may not be aware of.

1)  This forum may include aspects of what you wish to speak of, however this thread does not, and you need to stay on topic per the rules of the forum.

2)  There are numerous threads dedicated to Bruce, and a quick search will reveal them, and people willing and interested in that line of discussion.

3)  Since I began this thread topic; if you and others do not comply, than the discussion that others are respectfully having *on topic* will be shut down by the moderators.

Thank you for your consideration.


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## The Kai

Doc

First off ley me apologize, since I am a off thread culprit, and thank you for posting a great synopsis of the article along with the memories that it evoked from your end.  Not as an excuse but if cheap shots are taken at a good martial artist, ya gotta do something.  Leave it at that

Todd


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## Doc

The Kai said:
			
		

> Doc
> 
> First off ley me apologize, since I am a off thread culprit, and thank you for posting a great synopsis of the article along with the memories that it evoked from your end.  Not as an excuse but if cheap shots are taken at a good martial artist, ya gotta do something.  Leave it at that
> 
> Todd


 :asian:


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## Ender

After reading the article, I was struck by the similarity to my grandfather. He was a cranky and negative man, and some may say he had his reasons. Many times he would be dismissive and downright mean in his words. But it took a while to warm up to him and then he MIGHT say something positive. Then at the end of my visit, he would smile, give you a wink and make you promise to come see him again.

In the begining of the article the author quotes Chow as growling "yes I know Alo....and I no like him!" He then goes on to describe Chow's abrasiveness and his comments of some of his students. At the end of the interview, Chow says of Alo, "I like Alo!, He needs to come see me more. you tell him." So I'm kind of taking this article as a look at a man, who, on a certain day who may have been venting a bit, but may or may not be 100% accurate with his comments.


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## Doc

Ender said:
			
		

> After reading the article, I was struck by the similarity to my grandfather. He was a cranky and negative man, and some may say he had his reasons. Many times he would be dismissive and downright mean in his words. But it took a while to warm up to him and then he MIGHT say something positive. Then at the end of my visit, he would smile, give you a wink and make you promise to come see him again.
> 
> In the begining of the article the author quotes Chow as growling "yes I know Alo....and I no like him!" He then goes on to describe Chow's abrasiveness and his comments of some of his students. At the end of the interview, Chow says of Alo, "I like Alo!, He needs to come see me more. you tell him." So I'm kind of taking this article as a look at a man, who, on a certain day who may have been venting a bit, but may or may not be 100% accurate with his comments.


A very astute observation sir, and now that you made me think about it - sounds like my Grandad too.


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## 47MartialMan

Doc said:
			
		

> A very astute observation sir, and now that you made me think about it - sounds like my Grandad too.


Wow, my Grandad was Chow, except my Grandad played jokes on me.


----------



## dianhsuhe

Thunderbolt:  Grandmaster Kuoha may very well give his opinion on here about the article/interview, but I enjoy talking to him in person if I see him 

I am impressed by the amount of interest in everything that is Professor Chow related, too bad he did not receive all the credit when he was alive-

Take care everybody,
James


----------



## dianhsuhe

Oh yeah,  it is true that I am not familiar with the "Jacob" mentioned in the interview (As Pacificshore mentioned) but I have only been training in Kara-Ho since 1993.  I have conversed with Jacob Geotz (SP?) who trains/ed with Mr. Bill Chun jr. but as mentioned, he is a pretty young guy so he would not have been the gentleman from Professor's dojo.

I love all the history, and I am curious who this person is also 

Cheers!


----------



## The Kai

Actually while we are at it who is Ron Alo??
Is he still "listed" as a product of Chow?


----------



## Pacificshore

The Kai said:
			
		

> Actually while we are at it who is Ron Alo??
> Is he still "listed" as a product of Chow?


My original Kenpo training came down Ron Alo's line, however I never had the opportunity to meet Alo himself.  My understanding was that he did come from Professor's line.  From what I recall, Alo has been deceased for some time now.


----------



## The Kai

Sorry, I didnt know/think that (he seemed pretty young in the photos)


----------



## Thunderbolt

dianhsuhe said:
			
		

> Thunderbolt: Grandmaster Kuoha may very well give his opinion on here about the article/interview, but I enjoy talking to him in person if I see him


we are looking forward to seeing his comments about this article when the time is appropriate


----------



## Thunderbolt

Pacificshore said:
			
		

> Perhaps it's because dianhsuhe has not has never heard of "Jacob" like other members here on the forum, therefore the need to *ask*.
> As for the next time dianhsuhe *see's* Grandmaster Kuoha, unless you know both of these mens schedules, maybe you can shed some light as to what you are inferring by *your* comment???
> 
> Otherwise we will all just have to wait on a response.


have you noticed that nobody knows who jacob is UNTIL bb's article came out.? I'm also aware how busy these people are. My comment was if he only wants to hear what his grandmaster has to say about this article, he doesn't need to go to see him to know the answer because his grandmaster is a member of this forum and has posted a lot of interesting posts. I'm sure his grandmaster will have something to say about this article when the time is appropriate.

as he indicated in his late post, he enjoys seeing his grandmaster. I don't blame him. Southwest airline is a way to go.

if his grandmaster is generous enough to tell his students what he thinks about this article, i'm sure he will let us know also even though we don't study "karaho".


----------



## eyebeams

Is there any proof that Chow's father knew kung fu or taught it to him? Emperado said in an interview that he had no idea and that Chow developed techniques based on dreams he had of his grandfather. Article courtesy of John Bishop, here:

http://www.kajukenboinfo.com/sijointerview.html


----------



## kenmpoka

eyebeams said:
			
		

> Is there any proof that Chow's father knew kung fu or taught it to him? Emperado said in an interview that he had no idea and that Chow developed techniques based on dreams he had of his grandfather. Article courtesy of John Bishop, here:
> 
> http://www.kajukenboinfo.com/sijointerview.html


There is absolutely no proof that Professor Chow ever studied with anyone else but Mitose. None of his older or younger brothers ever picked up anything from their Father (the kung fu master), nor referred to him as a "Master". Professor Chow was a street wise and a street smart fighter and picked up information from many sources.
The truth is, at the time, Mr.Mitose was the big kahuna of Kenpo/Kempo on the islands or at least had established himself as one. Professor Chow even took his most senior student (Mr. Emperado) to Mitose for obtaining his teaching certificate. This has been verified by Sijo Emperado himself. Of course to claim to have studied with a dead father is always the best way to go. Didn't Mitose claim to have studied with his Grandfather?

Salute,


----------



## Doc

The Kai said:
			
		

> Actually while we are at it who is Ron Alo??
> Is he still "listed" as a product of Chow?


Ron Alo was a regular back in the day with his students on the tournament circuit. Nice unassuming man, and student of WIlliam Chow teaching his own brand of "Hawaiian Kenpo." I believe he passed away quite some time ago.


----------



## Kembudo-Kai Kempoka

Doc said:
			
		

> Ron Alo was a regular back in the day with his students on the tournament circuit. Nice unassuming man, and student of WIlliam Chow teaching his own brand of "Hawaiian Kenpo." I believe he passed away quite some time ago.


Any relation to the Rodney Alo of the open forms division, displaying kajukenbo, kenpo & won hop keun do forms competency?

D.


----------



## John Bishop

kenmpoka said:
			
		

> There is absolutely no proof that Professor Chow ever studied with anyone else but Mitose. None of his older or younger brothers ever picked up anything from their Father (the kung fu master), nor referred to him as a "Master". Professor Chow was a street wise and a street smart fighter and picked up information from many sources.
> The truth is, at the time, Mr.Mitose was the big kahuna of Kenpo/Kempo on the islands or at least had established himself as one. Professor Chow even took his most senior student (Mr. Emperado) to Mitose for obtaining his teaching certificate. This has been verified by Sijo Emperado himself. Of course to claim to have studied with a dead father is always the best way to go. Didn't Mitose claim to have studied with his Grandfather?
> 
> Salute,


I wouldn't be so positive about any of the above facts.  New information comes out all the time, if you look for it. 
Kajukenbo founder Joe Holck says that William Chow was training at the Okizaki dojo before he joined Mitose's classes.  In fact he tried to talk Holck into going with him to "see what this kenpo stuff, Mitose was teaching was about".  
A few months ago I got hold of a old 8mm movie (converted to video) of Aleju Reyes's students competing at differant tournaments in the 60's.  There, at Ralph Castro's tournament is Prof. Chow demonstrating a Hung Gar form.  So,where did Prof. Chow learn Hung Gar?  And what about all the people who say "Prof. Chow never did kata's" ?
When you do research, you have to keep a open mind.  If you follow only one trail, or only one theory, your going to miss out on a lot of information.


----------



## John Bishop

Kembudo-Kai Kempoka said:
			
		

> Any relation to the Rodney Alo of the open forms division, displaying kajukenbo, kenpo & won hop keun do forms competency?
> 
> D.


Sigung Rod is Ron's son.  He is a student of Prof. Allen Abad.


----------



## Kembudo-Kai Kempoka

John Bishop said:
			
		

> Sigung Rod is Ron's son. He is a student of Prof. Allen Abad.


Thank you. Do you happen to know where Mr. Reyes' son teaches, if he still does?

Thanks in advance,

D.


----------



## eyebeams

John Bishop said:
			
		

> I wouldn't be so positive about any of the above facts. New information comes out all the time, if you look for it.
> Kajukenbo founder Joe Holck says that William Chow was training at the Okizaki dojo before he joined Mitose's classes. In fact he tried to talk Holck into going with him to "see what this kenpo stuff, Mitose was teaching was about".
> A few months ago I got hold of a old 8mm movie (converted to video) of Aleju Reyes's students competing at differant tournaments in the 60's. There, at Ralph Castro's tournament is Prof. Chow demonstrating a Hung Gar form. So,where did Prof. Chow learn Hung Gar? And what about all the people who say "Prof. Chow never did kata's" ?
> When you do research, you have to keep a open mind. If you follow only one trail, or only one theory, your going to miss out on a lot of information.


 Interesting. It would be nice to see that. 

 From what I've been reading, it looks like Mitose taught a pretty limited currciculum (Naihanchi, some judo-style movements, some karate basics -- though I've found one reference to Henshuho practice coming from him). Given what happened later in his life, I wonder what degree Chow was merely brought under the umbrella as opposed to taught.


----------



## John Bishop

Kembudo-Kai Kempoka said:
			
		

> Thank you. Do you happen to know where Mr. Reyes' son teaches, if he still does?
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> 
> D.


Reyes Kajukenbo-Kenpo Karate
674 Parker Road
Fairfield, CA 94533
(707) 437-0351


----------



## kenmpoka

John Bishop said:
			
		

> I wouldn't be so positive about any of the above facts.  New information comes out all the time, if you look for it.
> Kajukenbo founder Joe Holck says that William Chow was training at the Okizaki dojo before he joined Mitose's classes.  In fact he tried to talk Holck into going with him to "see what this kenpo stuff, Mitose was teaching was about".
> A few months ago I got hold of a old 8mm movie (converted to video) of Aleju Reyes's students competing at differant tournaments in the 60's.  There, at Ralph Castro's tournament is Prof. Chow demonstrating a Hung Gar form.  So,where did Prof. Chow learn Hung Gar?  And what about all the people who say "Prof. Chow never did kata's" ?
> When you do research, you have to keep a open mind.  If you follow only one trail, or only one theory, your going to miss out on a lot of information.


Mr.Bishop,

I did not say the Professor never studied Jujutsu. I just don't think for any noticable length of time. Was he a DanZan ryu rank holder Sir? I doubt it. Professor Chow was too wild to have trained under Sensei Okazaki on a regular basis.....My belief. We are talking of the Professor's knowledge in the 40's 50's 60's and not the late 70's at the Castro's. Do you know for a fact that was a Hung GAR form?  Please compare the footage you speak of with any Hung Gar form available on Video or DVD. Hung Gar has very few forms. Is it possible the Professor made up the form? Is it possible he was showing "Hansuki" on that tape? Do Mr. Kuoha and Mr.Chun Jr. know that form? According to Mr. Kuoha, the Professor only knew Naihanchi (Naifuanchi). Why not go by what Sijo Emperado has repeatedly said?

I do have a very open mind......

Salute,


----------



## dianhsuhe

Thunderbolt:  I am fortunate to train at the "main" Kara-Ho dojo about 3 times per week, which is behind Grandmaster Kuoha's house.  I saw him tonight but did not get a chance to ask him about the magazine interview.  I know he has posted quite a bit on the Kara-Ho thread but I am not sure he has seen or read this particular thread...

  I really enjoy these threads, and everyone who contributes information about our Kempo predecessors! It is nice to hear so many senior Kempoists pitching there .02  

  I have competed against Mr. Rodney Alo and Mr.Tim Bowles, they are both awesome...

Take care everyone,
James


----------



## John Bishop

kenmpoka said:
			
		

> Mr.Bishop,
> 
> I did not say the Professor never studied Jujutsu. I just don't think for any noticable length of time. Was he a DanZan ryu rank holder Sir? I doubt it. Professor Chow was too wild to have trained under Sensei Okazaki on a regular basis.....My belief.


I haven't verified it, and probably never will be able to, but Chow did claim a 5th dan in judo. And two of his brothers were Danzan Ryu black belts. And of course there were many other judo and jujitsu instructors in Hawaii who were not from Okizaki dojo. 
So, judo and jujitsu training was quite common in Hawaii. 



			
				kenmpoka said:
			
		

> We are talking of the Professor's knowledge in the 40's 50's 60's and not the late 70's at the Castro's. Do you know for a fact that was a Hung GAR form? Please compare the footage you speak of with any Hung Gar form available on Video or DVD. Hung Gar has very few forms.
> Is it possible the Professor made up the form?


I have been told that this demonstration was around 1964. And no,it is not Honsuki, (Honsuki was a Bill Chun invention. I have never found anyone in Hawaii, who had learned Honsuki.) 
It is typical of a Hung Gar form with very low stances, slow dynamic tension moves, and claw type strikes. I've seen the form done at tournaments, but I don't know it's Chinese name.




			
				kenmpoka said:
			
		

> Do Mr. Kuoha and Mr.Chun Jr. know that form?


Like I said I have only had the video for a few months, so I haven't shown it to GM Kuoha, or GM Chun Jrh. It has been viewed by Wilfred Peladeau, who was Bill Chun Sr's first black belt. In fact Peladeau was present when Prof. Chow demonstrated the form. He did not recognize it as a form that Chun taught. And you have to be aware that Bill Chun came to Prof. Chow from another system, and trained with him for a short time before moving to California. He kept close contact with the Prof. during the 60's and early 70's, and brought him to California a few times during that period. But when GM Chun's wife died he dropped out of the martial arts completely, and didn't have any more contact with Prof. Chow. He only became active again for a short time after Prof. Chow's passing. 
I don't think any of the Prof.'s student's, including GM Kuoha, SGM Parker, and Sijo Emperado, were taught everything that Prof. Chow knew. He just wasn't the type to let people know everything he knew. 
Plus many people fell in and out of favor with the Prof. during his lifetime. Probably his longest student was Brother Abe Kamahoahoa. 



			
				kenmpoka said:
			
		

> According to Mr. Kuoha, the Professor only knew Naihanchi (Naifuanchi). Why not go by what Sijo Emperado has repeatedly said?
> 
> I do have a very open mind......
> 
> Salute,


I communicate with Sijo Emperado almost monthly, and have had many very long conversations with him about the "old days". 
And I've had many long visits and discussions with GM Kuoha, and a few with the late SGM Parker. 
These men may have said that "the only form Prof. Chow taught was Naihanchi", but I have never heard any of them say that it was the only form Prof. Chow knew. 

I see people write all the time that "there is absolutely no evidence that Prof. Chow learned kung fu from his father". 
But there is a equal argument that "there is absolutely no evidence that Prof. Chow didn't learn kung fu from his father".


----------



## kenmpoka

John Bishop said:
			
		

> I haven't verified it, and probably never will be able to, but Chow did claim a 5th dan in judo. And two of his brothers were Danzan Ryu black belts. And of course there were many other judo and jujitsu instructors in Hawaii who were not from Okizaki dojo.
> So, judo and jujitsu training was quite common in Hawaii.>
> 
> Well probably much like his 15th, it was self-claimed. Like I said I cannot picture Professor Chow in a traditional Dojo. I am aware of his bother was a high ranking DanZan Ryu practitioner, and that is where the Professor's knowledge came from.
> 
> <I have been told that this demonstration was around 1964. And no,it is not Honsuki, (Honsuki was a Bill Chun invention. I have never found anyone in Hawaii, who had learned Honsuki.)>
> 
> I was told by GM. Bill Chun Jr, that "Hansuki" was a joint creation of his Father and the Professor.
> 
> <It is typical of a Hung Gar form with very low stances, slow dynamic tension moves, and claw type strikes. I've seen the form done at tournaments, but I don't know it's Chinese name.>
> 
> "Hansuki" when performed correctly has claw type strikes, low stances, dynamic tentioning, and rapid striking.....
> 
> <I don't think any of the Prof.'s student's, including GM Kuoha, SGM Parker, and Sijo Emperado, were taught everything that Prof. Chow knew. He just wasn't the type to let people know everything he knew.>
> 
> I believe they were taught different things because they studied with the Professor at different times. They have each expanded on his teachings as well.
> 
> 
> <I communicate with Sijo Emperado almost monthly, and have had many very long conversations with him about the "old days".
> And I've had many long visits and discussions with GM Kuoha, and a few with the late SGM Parker.
> These men may have said that "the only form Prof. Chow taught was Naihanchi", but I have never heard any of them say that it was the only form Prof. Chow knew.>
> 
> C'mon Mr. Bishop what are the chances.....
> 
> <I see people write all the time that "there is absolutely no evidence that Prof. Chow learned kung fu from his father".
> But there is a equal argument that "there is absolutely no evidence that Prof. Chow didn't learn kung fu from his father".>
> 
> Yes, but not likely, in my opinion. Mr. Bishop, I have been at this for 28 years as well, and hold significant rank in a few systems. I can see and feel if one has any knowledge of various systems. Professor Chow was great at what he did, but he was not a Kung Fu man, or at least never had any significant training at it.
> 
> I thank you for the dialogue.
> 
> Salute,


----------



## John Bishop

I don't know how many of Prof. Chow's students you have talked to, but your right that differant students at differant times learned differant things. 
But I have talked to old Hawaiian instructors who have witnessed Chow performing kung fu techniques. 
As to the video I have being Hansuki, it dosent resemble any of the video clips I've seen of Hansuki. But there again I've been told that there are differant Hansuki forms being put forward as the "real form".  But like I said, Wilfred Peladeau said it wasn't, so that's good enough for me. 
The Chow video I have only has 2 hand strikes, no kicks, and a few very slow linear claw/palm strikes. Of course there's some slow stepping patterns along with slow blocks. The only technique that is done with speed is a double punch.


----------



## kenmpoka

John Bishop said:
			
		

> I don't know how many of Prof. Chow's students you have talked to, but your right that differant students at differant times learned differant things.
> But I have talked to old Hawaiian instructors who have witnessed Chow performing kung fu techniques.
> As to the video I have being Hansuki, it dosent resemble any of the video clips I've seen of Hansuki. But there again I've been told that there are differant Hansuki forms being put forward as the "real form".  But like I said, Wilfred Peladeau said it wasn't, so that's good enough for me.
> The Chow video I have only has 2 hand strikes, no kicks, and a few very slow linear claw/palm strikes. Of course there's some slow stepping patterns along with slow blocks. The only technique that is done with speed is a double punch.


Thank you Mr. Bishop. The form you saw The Professor perform, probably was not "Hansuki". "Hansuki" has two versions. The Chun's version, and the Shaolin Kempo version. Close but different in parts.
I can show you many Kung Fu techniques, but that doesn't make me a Kung Fu Master.

Again, thank you.

Salute,


----------



## dianhsuhe

Is the debate whether Professor Chow practiced/learned Kung-Fu from his father, or that he was a master of Kung-Fu?  (Understanding that the term Kung-Fu is not an actual art but a definition)

I can tell you that many advanced Kara-Ho techniques are circular and seem to have a significant Chinese influence-- I have seen Kosho-Ryu and even a few Goshin-jitsu tech's, and there are very few similarities. The art seemed to be continually changing-- 

For me, while it IS interesting to trace the history of certain techniques or forms, I am not as concerned where they are from but rather if they are effective- and they are   (I have felt them)

Take care everybody,
James


----------



## IslandBoy

John Bishop said:
			
		

> ...And you have to be aware that Bill Chun came to Prof. Chow from another system, and trained with him for a short time before moving to California...


Any idea what system Bill Chun trained in before training with Professor Chow? He must have learned a lot in a short time because I read some where he was one of Chow's top student.  Any idea if Chun developed GoShin Jitsu Kai Chinese Kempo in Hawaii or when he moved to California?


----------



## gmkuoha

Wow, I am away for a couple of weeks and things are stirring up. There are several questions that require my addressing so I will try to take some time off tomorrow to answer them. I was asked by Dianshuhe tonight at class if I would take a look at this forum top answer these questions and I will do so....but just getting back in town from an important event was very pertinent to my family. As most of you know my students are like my extended family so I traveled to San Francisco to attend one of my daughter's black belt student who just graduated from UCSF Law school and his fiancee just graduated from dental school in New York and she came there also and she is my student so this was an important event for us as we care about them all so that is the reason I was gone. Prior to that I was in Las Vegas to witness a wedding sealing of a dear friend and his wife at the Las Vegas Mormon Temple. Many of you might know him as he is in many films and is the cousin of the "Rock". His name is Sid Liufau so that was also important to us. I am back again for a short time before my travelling starts up again, so if there are more questions, please ask and I will do my best to answer them at once.
 Grandmaster Kuoha


----------



## Thunderbolt

IslandBoy said:
			
		

> Any idea what system Bill Chun trained in before training with Professor Chow? He must have learned a lot in a short time because I read some where he was one of Chow's top student. Any idea if Chun developed GoShin Jitsu Kai Chinese Kempo in Hawaii or when he moved to California?


i was thinking about asking this question and i'm glad that you posted it. Great thinkers think alike 

hopefully, we will see our answers here


----------



## punisher73

As far as this Jacob person is concerned, it states in the interview that Jacob wanted no rank or inherit the system he only did it out of love.

If that is the case then it's probably no wonder no one knows who this person is. He probably stopped after Chow passed on and didn't teach anyone.


----------



## gmkuoha

Okay, here goes with attempting to answer all your questions. Please let me know if I have been able to shed some light on these or if you have more. Remember these are my account of things that Professor Chow has told me and things that I have seen over the years.

 Number one I have been training in The Chinese Kempo of Kara-Ho System for over 20 years but have trained in other arts since I was 4 years old. I started back again with Professor Chow in the mid 70's where I was going back to Hawaii at least twice a year and sometimes three. I spent 2-3 weeks at a time where about 90% of the time I spent at his home training in the park next door or in the evening at the church hall. During all this time I have not been able to train with Jacob as he was never there and yes, his name is Jacob and at the time in question (1986) he was supposed to have been training for 4-5 years. I did have an opportunity to train with a white belt name Walter and there were a few others that never stayed. When I went to classes, I normally would start the classes. It is to be known that I have in my possession one of the first printed Mitosi's Book of Self Defense where Professor Chow is shown doing some techniques. In the front it was signed by Professor Chow and it reads: To my Chief Instructor, Samuel 5th degree. Aloha from Hawaii, Professor William Kwai Sun Chow. This was in the early 80's, and I also have a recorded tape interview with me and Professor Chow from the early 80's where he states I am his top student and will carry on his name and his system. This interview will remain for myself and my black belts to listen but will not go any farther then that. It is very derogotory and statements made towards other old timers were not in the positive so it will never be allowed to be printed in any magazine...for we are a positive system to grow and move forward we  need to put all these "small talks" on the side and move on with our lives. I want my students to grow srong and move foward with positive Ki and there is no room for that kind of negativity.

 When Professor Chow passed away I could not go back home for the funeral as it was forbid by my doctors, so I made arrangements to go back about 6 weeks after. It is to be noted that almost everyday since Professor Chow passed away I was getting collect calls from Steven Chow (Professor Chow's son) and he kept asking me to come to Hawaii and take over everything. When I did go back Steven told me that they were having a meeting and in this meeting were several people, none that was important as Patsy Chow and Dr. Perry were not invited, and they were the ones that spent time with Professor before his death, but at this meeting was Steven, Jacob, Walter and a couple of Professor's older students that never stayed for any length of time. They all discussed things and said that I should take over and run the system because I knew the most about Kara-Ho. I told them that I did not want to be the head of anything and that I was satisfied of where I was, a 9th dan under Professor Chow. They all kept telling me that I had to do that and finally to brush them off, I told them I would think about it. It also to be known that Steven, who did not train in Kara-Ho as he and his dad could never see eye to eye as Steven was heavy into drugs asked me to promote him to 9th dan after I got my 10th. I told him that there was no way I would do that as I wanted students to be able to look up to the higher ranking instructors and that could not happen on this case. Of course he was very angry about this. I even tried to help him as he moved here for the entire summer of 1983, but when he went home, he went back to his old ways.

 In this article, I don't know who this Jim Perkins is, but he never says he trained with Professor Chow and in fact I remember at that time, Professor calling me by phone and telling me that some guy under Alo was there asking him all kinds of questions and what should he do. I told him to contact Dr. Perry and do not talk to this guy or do not sign anything or teach him anything. This can be verified through Dr. Perry as he knows everything and everybody that went to visit Professor and for what reason. I later spoke to Professor and I remember him telling me that he didn't sign nothing and didn't say too much to him, which showed in this very short...concise so...called lost interview. Evidently his memory is not so good as he states he went home and tried to remember what he had been told so I think more then a few of his memory brain cells have lapsed. Professor never claimed that Mr. Parker only recieved a purple belt, but he has always stated that he trained with him for only 2 years but got a brown belt and it is true that in those days we only used the white, brown and black belts. Then one moment he hated Ron Alo and the next moment he wanted to see him. That is one thing I learned about Professor Chow all these years, but if you were on his bad side...you would forever be on his bad side and he was not afraid to tell anything to your face. So that there does not fit the Professor. Another thing I have noticed is that if he was angry at your instructor, he would get upset but never at you as a person as he knew that it wasn't your fault. All he wanted to do was make sure that everyone knew the truth about everyone that trained with him for a few weeks and used his name for fame or money. These are the tapes that I have in our archives, but won't release them.

 The comments he made and said about Parker and Mitosi are probably true as there was no lost love between them, but for the most part these things should not have been printed in any public forum such as a magazine, but to each his own, I guess. Some people thrive on negativity and controversy.

 Regarding Professor Chow's training...yes i believe him when he says his training came first from his father as I have seen him do techniques resembling Kung Fu as I have trained in Kung Fu also for many years. Plus I have spoken to a very old Chinese Man that comes from Shanghai, China that now lives out here and after speaking with him, he told me that it was highly unlikely that a member of any Chinese Family that lived in Shanghai especially a son that did not know or practice in the Gung Fu Art extensively as it was almost mandatory for children there to train for health at least. He also said there was many fightings going on between families of various farms so all the sons would train in Gung Fu to become better then their neighbors so they could defeat them in battle.

 I have in my possessions a bunch of photos taken of Professor Chow doing what might be determined as the Naihanchi Kata. These photos seem to be around the same time the photos for the Mitosi Book was printed in the early 50's. Professor told me that this was not his form so he did not want me to teach it. He said that his forms would have the kung fu flavor and so the development of the katas we now have which was done with he and I in the mid 70's.

 Regarding Hanshi Bruce Juchnik, though many people belive that what he is teaching is not Kenpo, I beg to differ. I really cannot tell you or know for fact on the amount of knowledge he obtained from Mitosi but have no doubt that the system was bestowed upon him. I find him to be a humble yet direct teacher and no matter how much of what is taught is Koshu-ryu, I believe that he was given the system and if any of you have seen him working out, there would be no doubt in anyone's mind about the talent this man has. He is a dynamic teacher and even if he didn't have Koshu-ryu, he can handle himself quite well. He carries around with him all the time the aloha spirit and defines himself as a true martial artists and I have to stand next to him on that.

 Though I never met Bill Chun Sr, Professor Chow used to tell me allot about him and yes, at one time he was Professor Chow's right hand man till the late 70's-early 80's when Professor Chow never heard from him and in fact Professor told me that he thought Bill Chun Sr. wanted nothing to do with him again and he didn't know why. He said he tried calling him several times but did not get a response since he always called collect, so he disassociated himself from Chun. Jr. claims to have the true Kara-Ho but how do you have something that is true when the man himself decides it's time to improve and you're not around to accept those teachings.

 You must all take what is printed in BB Magazine with a grain of salt. I did one of the largest selling issues in 1989 for their cover and they promised me it would not be a controversial article and I was wrong to trust them so because CFW (IKF, MA, IK) have been trying to modify their magazines to be more positive, I have been doing allot with them. I have also done covers in England, All through Latin America, Spain, Germany and others including several throughout the US and have tried desperately to have positive articles that would give a reader something to relate too instead of something that had a debate. I just found out that I will be on the cover of IKF in November of this year and my daughter, Sensei Ka'imi will be on the cover in early 2006 with her kung fu instructor. I will also be doing 2 covers shots in Mexico City and Spain (Budo) wants us back there to do another.

 Ron Alo at one time was a friend of mine and then we lost contact, but I have many of his black belt students, some were his top people in Wyoming that have joined our organization. In 1974, I approached Ron to assist me in helping Professor establish an organization for him to preserve the Kara-Ho System. He asked me what was in it for him, and I responded, having the taking the time to help sopmeone who has been important to us for all our martial arts training. He refused and the rest is history. Yes, Professor did not like him either but on the scale of 1-10 and 10 being the most hated, he was about a 3-4. Hey, at times I think I was in that range also. I remember once when I was training allot and he called me up and told me that he wanted to skip some ranks for me and wanted to promote me to 8th dan because he said it was my dedication and knowledge of his art. I refused and he started yelling at me over the phone. He sounded so angry that I postponed my trip back home till he called me about 7 months later and asked when I was coming home to train. I asked him if he was all right and he said yes, so I went home, but then he promoted me to 5th dan and I didn't refuse because I was so close to him. In his later years (70's and on) he believed in paperwork so that is when the notarizing of instructor's certificate came in and has continued even to this day.

 Someone wrote that they thought that I was given the system because I was better off monetarily then Jacob and if you think raising 4 kids and a wife on a police salary is being rich, then you don't know nothing. Both Patsy and Dr. Perry signed a notarized a declaration for me that read that I was given this seat because that is what Professor Chow wanted to do because he felt I was the one with the knowledge, and I appreciated that. In 1988, the then Inside Kung Fu Magazine did a cover shot and an article and it read, The Reluctant Grandmaster. The editor was John Soet and he did allot of investigation and then came to me. I, indeed did not want the mantle and tried to get out of it several times and to be honest I sometimes wish that I never took it. It took them a year to convince me that I was denying Professor Chow's wishes and was being dishonorable to him. I certainly did not want to do that, but I did not franchise the schools as my attorneys advised me too but I just sunk my own money to help others find the truth and in the end my immediate family suffered for that decision...but we have never regretted that decision that I made many years ago. When we look at all the friends that we have made all these years and the joining of extended families, spending over $100,000 to do this and not getting it all back has been well worth it for me and my family.

 Yes, Professor Chow had been humbled to picking up cans and recycled bottles but he did not have to do that as we had arranged a bank account for him in Hawaii whereas every month the bank was sending him money for his bills and essentials. All the money I collected from my 20-30 students each month went directly to this account and we continued to care for Patsy Chow after Professor passed on. Tell me where any of his students, past or present, did even half as much.....None, because they did not love that man like I did. He wanted my daughter named after him and so we gave her his middle name, Kwai Sun, and when we saw him 5 weeks before his passing he told her (3 years old then) that someday she would run his system, and till today she has always remembered those words and someday she will when I am gone and she will do him proud. It is to be noted that after his death, they found over $6,000 under his bed in US coins packed in shoe boxes (though the bank was giving him money each month, he did not trust them and also did not trust in paper money as he said rats could eat them. The truck that took this money to the bank was weighted to the springs and when someone asked Patsy where he got all this money from, she uttered, Samuel. I gave and gave and gave and when it hurt...I gave again...because I truly loved him. I'd like to see anyone else rebute that. Hope this answers allot of your questions....Sorry for it being so long but that was 7 long pages for me to go through all because of this dumb article, but if you've learned something from this...then it's worth all the time it's taken me to type this, which is about 5 hours.
 Grandmaster Kuoha


----------



## gmkuoha

punisher73 said:
			
		

> As far as this Jacob person is concerned, it states in the interview that Jacob wanted no rank or inherit the system he only did it out of love.
> 
> If that is the case then it's probably no wonder no one knows who this person is. He probably stopped after Chow passed on and didn't teach anyone.


 Jacob was indeed a black belt and yes, he took that when it was offered, but Professor would always say that Jacob always got carried away, and that means he was a double O student....off and on. But from the ones that he had there, Jacob did keep coming back even in between his time offs.
 Grandmaster Kuoha


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## Ray

gmkuoha said:
			
		

> Someone wrote that they thought that I was given the system because I was better off monetarily then Jacob and if you think raising 4 kids and a wife on a police salary is being rich, then you don't know nothing.


Sir, I meant no disrepect.  I was repeating what I recalled from a 1996 conversation with Perkins {the author of the article}.

I will admit that I know nothing of kenpo's history first hand; and I'm indebted to people, like you, who were there and take the time to share your memories.


----------



## kenmpoka

I have in my possessions a bunch of photos taken of Professor Chow doing what might be determined as the Naihanchi Kata. These photos seem to be around the same time the photos for the Mitosi Book was printed in the early 50's. Professor told me that this was not his form so he did not want me to teach it. He said that his forms would have the kung fu flavor and so the development of the katas we now have which was done with he and I in the mid 70's.
  Grandmaster Kuoha[/QUOTE]


Thank you Grandmaster Kuoha for taking the time and clearing more of the same controversy.

Couple of questions if I may;

1) To your knowledge, did The Professor practice any other kata besides "Naihanchi" prior to mid 70's and your joint colaboration?

2) In one of your books, you refer to Mr. Mitose as the Great Grandmaster or Grandmaster, and the teacher of Professor Chow. Do you still hold the same belief?

I also wanted to express my appreciation to you and Mr. Juchnic for expanding on your teachings, and keeping the roots of Kenpo / Kempo alive.

Respectfully,


----------



## gmkuoha

Thank you Grandmaster Kuoha for taking the time and clearing more of the same controversy.
 * My pleasure!

 Couple of questions if I may;

1) To your knowledge, did The Professor practice any other kata besides "Naihanchi" prior to mid 70's and your joint colaboration?
 * No...even when I trained with him in the 70's, he did not show me that kata and his whole idea was to develop forms that would deplict his style, the Kara-Ho System which is what he and I did starting in 1978. I learned that form in around 1958-60 with Professor's protege/student, Sensei Charles Kuheana who I trained with for many years from 1958-69 and at times saw and worked out with Professor Chow at the Salvation Army Gym.

 2) In one of your books, you refer to Mr. Mitose as the Great Grandmaster or Grandmaster, and the teacher of Professor Chow. Do you still hold the same belief?
 * I still say that Professor Chow did in fact learn some things from Mitosi, however I believe that Professor learned as much from Mitosi as Mitosi learned from Chow. I spoke to Emparado some years back and he told me that Professor Chow was the hands on teacher and Mitosi ran the organization due to his education.

 I also wanted to express my appreciation to you and Mr. Juchnic for expanding on your teachings, and keeping the roots of Kenpo / Kempo alive.
 * You're more then welcome.
 Grandmaster Kuoha


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## gmkuoha

Ray said:
			
		

> Sir, I meant no disrepect. I was repeating what I recalled from a 1996 conversation with Perkins {the author of the article}.
> 
> I will admit that I know nothing of kenpo's history first hand; and I'm indebted to people, like you, who were there and take the time to share your memories.


 * No harm done. I guess we just need to consider the source.
 Grandmaster Kuoha


----------



## gmkuoha

punisher73 said:
			
		

> As far as this Jacob person is concerned, it states in the interview that Jacob wanted no rank or inherit the system he only did it out of love.
> 
> If that is the case then it's probably no wonder no one knows who this person is. He probably stopped after Chow passed on and didn't teach anyone.


 Here is a portion of an e-mail recieved from Dr. Perry of Hawaii regarding these concerns. Hope this puts allot of questions and concerns to rest.
 Grandmaster Kuoha
 Great-Grandmaster Sam.  I heard very little of Jacob and I met all of Prof Chow's students.  You and only you are the chosen one to carry out his teachings, school and legacy. I was Prof. Chow's confidant and closest friend and consultant and knew him better than anyone. I would be happy to write a letter to whoever needs verification of this situation. I am the authority on the story of Prof. Chow's life. 
Sincerely, Dr. Perry


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## Thunderbolt

Grandmaster Kuoha,

if my memory serves me well, you told us that you will tell us more about Dr. Perry in "karaho" thread. If you have *free time*, can you tell us how this man relates to Prof Chow and how do you / Chow know this man.?

thanks


----------



## IslandBoy

Thunderbolt: Good question. Great thinkers do think alike...


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## Thunderbolt

IslandBoy said:
			
		

> Thunderbolt: Good question. Great thinkers do think alike...


let hope we have our questions answered as well. Yours has not been answered.Perhaps, it's a difficult one but I hope mine is not that hard


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## punisher73

> Great-Grandmaster Sam. I heard very little of Jacob and I met all of Prof Chow's students. You and only you are the chosen one to carry out his teachings, school and legacy. I was Prof. Chow's confidant and closest friend and consultant and knew him better than anyone. I would be happy to write a letter to whoever needs verification of this situation. I am the authority on the story of Prof. Chow's life.


thanks for taking the time to pass that information on.


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## 47MartialMan

Whos is this in reference to? Which two people?


_Great-Grandmaster Sam. I heard very little of Jacob and I met all of Prof Chow's students. You and only you are the chosen one to carry out his teachings, school and legacy. I was Prof. Chow's confidant and closest friend and consultant and knew him better than anyone. I would be happy to write a letter to whoever needs verification of this situation. I am the authority on the story of Prof. Chow's life._


----------



## gmkuoha

Thunderbolt said:
			
		

> Grandmaster Kuoha,
> 
> if my memory serves me well, you told us that you will tell us more about Dr. Perry in "karaho" thread. If you have *free time*, can you tell us how this man relates to Prof Chow and how do you / Chow know this man.?
> 
> thanks


 Dr. Perry is a internal medicine doctor located in Hawaii. He is very well known and very connected there on the islands. He does not or never have trained in the martial arts. He doesn't need to as he had friends like Professor Chow and others. In the late 50's he was working in the emergency room of the hospital in Hawaii when 3 big local Polynisian men were wheeled into the hospital. They all weighed in the 300+ pounds. They were all very damaged and a couple of them were very critical. He thought they got into a major auto wreck and so when the police officers came there, he asked them how many cars were involved as one man that weighed over 350 had some internal bleeding as his lungs were pierced under one side of the ribs. (It was later learned that Professor Chow had stuck his knife hand under his ribcage and punctured his lung). The cop advised Dr. Perry that it wasn't an auto accident but these guys had picked on the wrong man. Man....asked Dr. Perry, that being singular. Yep, answered the cop and then suggested to watch for him as he had to come there so they could get more info about what happened.

 About an hour later he was at the desk and then short, thick Chinese man walked up to him and asked where the cops were and Dr. Perry pointed to the back lounge, which the Chinese man walked there. He went back to looking at some records when the cop he orginally was talking too, came walking by and Dr. Perry told him that a real short guy came by looking for them and he sent them back to the lounge area. The cop then replied....ohhhhh, that must be the guy these guys picked on. This floored Dr. Perry as the damage done were so severe, it was hard to believe that one man could do all that damage, actually bringing them close to death, and in fact one of them did die after. He took a better look and went to the lounge to meet this man and said after more careful investigation, he saw the most gigantic black knuckles (he said caluoses stood about an inch above the regular hands) on anyone and knew that this man was a martial artists (one of the big things in Hawaii with everyone training in karate was to build their knuckles). The cop introduced them both and they became friends ever since. When I was training with Professor Chow in the 70's he took me to meet Dr. Perry and told me that is the man that knows everything about him and his system because he was his closest, personal friend and the only one he could really trust. I believe that is because Dr, Perry did not need anything and would not benefit anything from Professor Chow. Everytime I went home to Hawaii we would always meet up with Dr. Perry for breakfast or lunch and I got to know exactly what he would order each time. He took them for breakfast almost every morning and also helped support his family. He was their personal doctor and performed a few operations on Professor Chow and Patsy and did not charge them any money and in fact paid the hospital bill. He also paid for a portion of Patsy living expenses along with the state and our organization. He became Professor Chow's closest friend and was told everything that needed to be done. He also told him to tell me that if anything happened to him...that he wanted to be sure that I would take care of Patsy and I did. He was the one that promoted me to 10th dan...Grandmaster, as per his conversations with Professor Chow. He was the one that signed Professor Chow death certificate. He had control over the estate of Professor Chow and Patsy Chow. But by the time I got home, Steven Chow had thrown everything that was owned by Professor away in the dumpster. I did get all his photo albums, the scrolls and many other things that Patsy was instructed by Professor to hide for me. Dr. Perry and I have thus became friends since I met him through Professor Chow. Professor Chow told him that someday after me he would want my daughter, Ka'imipono Kwai Sun Kuoha to run the system as he said she could do that and would be the first female to do something like this.
 Grandmaster Kuoha


----------



## gmkuoha

47MartialMan said:
			
		

> Whos is this in reference to? Which two people?
> 
> 
> _Great-Grandmaster Sam. I heard very little of Jacob and I met all of Prof Chow's students. You and only you are the chosen one to carry out his teachings, school and legacy. I was Prof. Chow's confidant and closest friend and consultant and knew him better than anyone. I would be happy to write a letter to whoever needs verification of this situation. I am the authority on the story of Prof. Chow's life._


 Sorry this letter was writen by Dr. Perry, MD of Hawaii who was Prof. Chow's personal friend and physician and his closest friend. He was given the responsibility for acting as Prof. Chow's attorney after he passed away and also Patsy Chow. I wrote him and sent him some questions that everyone had and this was his response.
 Grandmaster Kuoha


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## kelly keltner

The Kai said:
			
		

> I thought you'd get a kick out of that!!!


 Here I am stickicking my head out of my cave

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!
Shawn and Kai keep up the good work.

To Mr. Kahoa
thank you for the kind words about my teacher.

To koga-ha
I guess all the stuff my teacher(Mr. Juchnik) taught me is false. 
HAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

kelly


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## hongkongfooey

deleted


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## hongkongfooey

Jeff Boler said:
			
		

> No, the real TRAGETY is that some people on this board have no concept of proper spelling. ABSOULUTELY none.


 
 The real tragedy consists of incorrectly spelling both tragedy and absolutely.
 Sorry couldn't resist. :whip:

 HKF


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## Kembudo-Kai Kempoka

Mr. Kuoha:

I am about to ask a question in a context that will, no doubt, anger many. Please know in advance that I mean no disrespect; merely to clarify what I had learned of Mr. Chow's mental status prior to his passing. 

*The Context* (also a question as to how true this may be): I have heard that Mr. Chow was slowly slipping into either insanity or Alzheimers in his last decade or two of life. I have spoke with a couple of guys who, having flown over and met him, insisted he was not quite "all there" anymore...one particular story involved him stapling bottle-caps to his kimono, and taking pride in his medals.

*The Question*: If he was slipping off into his own private mind-space, why would one be willing to place much emphasis on what he had to say in an interview in the first place? Was he lucid when he gave it? If he was, then we know a bit of the opinions and recollections of the man who fathered Hawaiian Kenpo, and many of it's offshoots. If he was less than lucid, then we have little more in this interview than the half-remembered observations of a dimming (although lethal) senior, colored by senescence.

Please understand: I'm an old Waianae boy, and grew up with the greatest respect for the "kenpo royalty", including GGM Chow and SGM Parker. No disrespect: I wish simply to improve clarity via the input of a man who was there: You.

I apologize in advance for any unpleasantness that my arise fom this, and look forward to your response.

Best Regards,

Dave Crouch


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## gmkuoha

I believe that in his days in the past 20 years Professor Chow was an angry man. Angry at many people that came to him for a few short weeks and then went and made exaggerated claims of being high ranking belts from him and this is why since the mid 70's he decided to make all his instructor's certificates signed and notarized. If you met him and be mindful this is the way he was for the past 20 somewhat years, you might get that impression. He was not going crazy by all means and did not have even a faint trace of Alzheimer's disease. He did repeat himself allot when trying to make a point, but he has always done that. He flew off the handle allot when speaking of people that he claims has ripped him off...but if you know what he went through, you would not blame him either. His mind was still sharp up to 5 weeks prior to his passing away. He was able to still repeat things that happened to him or someone he knew years prior and he could still work the dickens out of me. His talents as a martial artists was impeccable, demonstrating awesome strength and lightening speed. No...I think that on this editorial article the writer is the one with the memory lapse and even as he himself stated that he went back to his hotel and wrote down things that he could remember...a little exaggerated..I'd say and a pretty hollow interview if you ask me...very meaningless and full of holes. Trying to get his name in the magazines...that's what I can see.
 Hope this helps and answer your questions. Glad to know you are a local. I'm a very....very old Kalihi Boy myself
 Grandmaster Kuoha


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## JakeG

John Bishop said:


> Like I said I have only had the video for a few months, so I haven't shown it to GM Kuoha, or GM Chun Jrh. It has been viewed by Wilfred Peladeau, who was Bill Chun Sr's first black belt. In fact Peladeau was present when Prof. Chow demonstrated the form. He did not recognize it as a form that Chun taught. And you have to be aware that Bill Chun came to Prof. Chow from another system, and trained with him for a short time before moving to California. He kept close contact with the Prof. during the 60's and early 70's, and brought him to California a few times during that period. But when GM Chun's wife died he dropped out of the martial arts completely, and didn't have any more contact with Prof. Chow. He only became active again for a short time after Prof. Chow's passing.


 
I am a Chun (Sr. and Jr.) student and he(sr.) told me that the only system he learned before meeting the Professor was boxing. What other system is this that you are referring to? For the most part what you are saying is true, however, regarding the form Honsuki. This form was taught from Chow by Chun and he said it was Kempo. Those were his direct words to me. It was a special form and it is much different than the version taught on the East coast. Would love to see the tournament footage.

thanks,
Jacob


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## JakeG

err, i meant to say from Chow to Chun. Thankyou

Jacob


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## youngbraveheart

JakeG said:


> I am a Chun (Sr. and Jr.) student


 
Hey Jacob, did you know that there's only two of you (you and Brian) that are students of _both_ Grandmaster Bill Chun Sr. and Master Bill Chun Jr.? (No one else in the world or history can ever say that! How cool is that! That'll make a good Kenpo/Kempo trivia question...)

Take care, JY


----------



## John Bishop

youngbraveheart said:


> Hey Jacob, did you know that there's only two of you (you and Brian) that are students of _both_ Grandmaster Bill Chun Sr. and Master Bill Chun Jr.? (No one else in the world or history can ever say that! How cool is that! That'll make a good Kenpo/Kempo trivia question...)
> 
> Take care, JY



So would that be Jacob Goetz and Brian Peladeau?


----------



## youngbraveheart

John Bishop said:


> So would that be Jacob Goetz and Brian Peladeau?


 
You are correct.  I believe Jacob Goetz and Brian Peladeau are the only _black belts_ that have been students under both Grandmaster Bill Chun Sr. and Master Bill Chun Jr.  _Actually, there's another student who started with Sr. and has trained some with Jr. but has not reached black belt rank....let me not forget that Master Wilfred Peladeau (Sr.'s first blackbelt) has also trained with Master Chun (Jr.). _


----------



## John Bishop

JakeG said:


> I am a Chun (Sr. and Jr.) student and he(sr.) told me that the only system he learned before meeting the Professor was boxing. What other system is this that you are referring to? For the most part what you are saying is true, however, regarding the form Honsuki. This form was taught from Chow by Chun and he said it was Kempo. Those were his direct words to me. It was a special form and it is much different than the version taught on the East coast. Would love to see the tournament footage.
> 
> thanks,
> Jacob




Without digging thru my notes I can't recall who it was that told me that GM Chun Sr. had previous training prior to joining Prof. Chow's school.  
I can say that it wasn't Sijo Emperado, since he told me that he didn't know GM Chun when he lived in Hawaii.  
Right now the only other people I can remember talking to about GM Chun would be GM Kuoha and your father.   But I'm sure Master Peladeau or GM Chun Jr. would know more about GM Chun Sr. then most.   So if they said his previous training was in boxing, then that's probably what it was.


----------



## JakeG

Yes, I guess we are two lucky guys. 

take care,
Jake


----------



## JakeG

youngbraveheart said:


> You are correct. I believe Jacob Goetz and Brian Peladeau are the only _black belts_ that have been students under both Grandmaster Bill Chun Sr. and Master Bill Chun Jr. _Actually, there's another student who started with Sr. and has trained some with Jr. but has not reached black belt rank....let me not forget that Master Wilfred Peladeau (Sr.'s first blackbelt) has also trained with Master Chun (Jr.). _


 
That man is in a class of his own. Well, I don't know how to explain it, but Master Peladeau is definitely a living treasure. Like a time capsule of what Kenpo was when Bill Chun Sr. came to California and began teaching. A part of our history/training many would say alot of the offshoots and styles are missing today. If you ever get a chance to train with him, I definitely recommend it. You will see how simple yet effective the art really is, and he has some great "sea stories" as well.

Jake


----------



## JakeG

John Bishop said:


> Without digging thru my notes I can't recall who it was that told me that GM Chun Sr. had previous training prior to joining Prof. Chow's school.
> I can say that it wasn't Sijo Emperado, since he told me that he didn't know GM Chun when he lived in Hawaii.
> Right now the only other people I can remember talking to about GM Chun would be GM Kuoha and your father. But I'm sure Master Peladeau or GM Chun Jr. would know more about GM Chun Sr. then most. So if they said his previous training was in boxing, then that's probably what it was.


 

I just dug through my own notes. GM Chun Sr. had about 3-6 months training in Goju, TKD and Boxing during his 3 yrs. in the Army. He began training with Prof. Chow in 1951 and received his blackbelt in 1960 before moving to the mainland. 

Jacob


----------



## youngbraveheart

JakeG said:


> ...Master Peladeau is definitely a living treasure...


 You're so right! Master Peladeau is awesome. At his age (sixty something I guess), he'll still make anyone flinch (especially me) with his snaps... I have so much respect for him. (I remember seeing a "young" Master Peladeau in an old picture with Professor Chow...must have been when Professor Chow was visiting Grandmaster Chun Sr.)

Take care Jacob

Johnny


----------



## The Perk

Aloha,
This is Jim Perkins, author of the Blackbelt Mag piece on Professor Chow.  I've written dozens and dozens of Marial Arts articles and columns for many publications and have taught for many years. I'm glad so many of you are keeping the Professors memory alive by talking about the piece. 

To those who try and chime in as to how authentic it is, help yourself. Sam Kuoha has written on this site about what he thought was true and untrue about this piece, which I found humorous. I guess he doesn't remember calling me when the Professor died and telling me to stop sending money to Patsy Chow, Professor's wife. (I sent money to the Professor and Patsy often) He said he had several photos of me that the Professor had and several of my letters and asked me to write and sign a sworn affadavit that stated the Professor had wanted him (Sam) to take over the system when he died. I told him I couldn't do that because that's not what the Professor told me. He may have felt that way, but Jacob was the one he told me SHOULD take over the system as he had trained him for 20 years, since he was a boy. 
He asked me a couple times to do it during that conversation, but I refused. I also find it offensive that he would talk about Sensei Alo the way he did in a durogatory manner. He was a good man, martial artist and teacher. May he rest in peace!
I have nothing against Sam Kuoha and I'm glad he is passing the art on. I just resent the fact that he claims to know that the Professor would have or would not have told me certain things. I wrote in that article from my notes made thast evening. Many, many other memories I could have written about, but were not as clear, so I left them out.
Also, Sam wrote that the Prof. called him about "questions I was asking and told him not to sign anything", I was there as a student to learn, but was more of a friend. I was not a writer until many years later. What I teach now is not the Professor's art, but I have always tried to duplicate some of his traning methods and his passion in teaching. 

SO believe what you would like to, but most importantly, stay passionate about your art and never stop learning.

Aloha Nui
Jim Perkins
6th Degree
Keokin Kenpo


----------



## Doc

The Perk said:


> Aloha,
> This is Jim Perkins, author of the Blackbelt Mag piece on Professor Chow.  I've written dozens and dozens of Marial Arts articles and columns for many publications and have taught for many years. I'm glad so many of you are keeping the Professors memory alive by talking about the piece.
> 
> To those who try and chime in as to how authentic it is, help yourself. Sam Kuoha has written on this site about what he thought was true and untrue about this piece, which I found humorous. I guess he doesn't remember calling me when the Professor died and telling me to stop sending money to Patsy Chow, Professor's wife. (I sent money to the Professor and Patsy often) He said he had several photos of me that the Professor had and several of my letters and asked me to write and sign a sworn affadavit that stated the Professor had wanted him (Sam) to take over the system when he died. I told him I couldn't do that because that's not what the Professor told me. He may have felt that way, but Jacob was the one he told me SHOULD take over the system as he had trained him for 20 years, since he was a boy.
> He asked me a couple times to do it during that conversation, but I refused. I also find it offensive that he would talk about Sensei Alo the way he did in a durogatory manner. He was a good man, martial artist and teacher. May he rest in peace!
> I have nothing against Sam Kuoha and I'm glad he is passing the art on. I just resent the fact that he claims to know that the Professor would have or would not have told me certain things. I wrote in that article from my notes made thast evening. Many, many other memories I could have written about, but were not as clear, so I left them out.
> Also, Sam wrote that the Prof. called him about "questions I was asking and told him not to sign anything", I was there as a student to learn, but was more of a friend. I was not a writer until many years later. What I teach now is not the Professor's art, but I have always tried to duplicate some of his traning methods and his passion in teaching.
> 
> SO believe what you would like to, but most importantly, stay passionate about your art and never stop learning.
> 
> Aloha Nui
> Jim Perkins
> 6th Degree
> Keokin Kenpo



Mr. Perkins, although we have never met, I have heard your name on many occasions and always in a positive light. That is why I started this thread. I too knew Alo personally here on the mainland, and I agree with you completely.


----------



## Danjo

The Perk said:


> Aloha,
> This is Jim Perkins, author of the Blackbelt Mag piece on Professor Chow. I've written dozens and dozens of Marial Arts articles and columns for many publications and have taught for many years. I'm glad so many of you are keeping the Professors memory alive by talking about the piece.
> 
> To those who try and chime in as to how authentic it is, help yourself. Sam Kuoha has written on this site about what he thought was true and untrue about this piece, which I found humorous. I guess he doesn't remember calling me when the Professor died and telling me to stop sending money to Patsy Chow, Professor's wife. (I sent money to the Professor and Patsy often) He said he had several photos of me that the Professor had and several of my letters and asked me to write and sign a sworn affadavit that stated the Professor had wanted him (Sam) to take over the system when he died. I told him I couldn't do that because that's not what the Professor told me. He may have felt that way, but Jacob was the one he told me SHOULD take over the system as he had trained him for 20 years, since he was a boy.
> He asked me a couple times to do it during that conversation, but I refused. I also find it offensive that he would talk about Sensei Alo the way he did in a durogatory manner. He was a good man, martial artist and teacher. May he rest in peace!
> I have nothing against Sam Kuoha and I'm glad he is passing the art on. I just resent the fact that he claims to know that the Professor would have or would not have told me certain things. I wrote in that article from my notes made thast evening. Many, many other memories I could have written about, but were not as clear, so I left them out.
> Also, Sam wrote that the Prof. called him about "questions I was asking and told him not to sign anything", I was there as a student to learn, but was more of a friend. I was not a writer until many years later. What I teach now is not the Professor's art, but I have always tried to duplicate some of his traning methods and his passion in teaching.
> 
> SO believe what you would like to, but most importantly, stay passionate about your art and never stop learning.
> 
> Aloha Nui
> Jim Perkins
> 6th Degree
> Keokin Kenpo


 
Do you remember Jacob's last name and if he is still active?


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## The Perk

Ron, glad you posted originally and glad to hear from you. I am familiar with your name as well and it's always mentioned with admiration. I'm also glad you knew and felt kindly towards Sensei Alo. I have not kept up much with Kenpo on line, but I'm glad to see so many great Kenpo artist are interested in the Professor. He was one of a kind and I wrote the piece to honor his memory and let people know about the real Professor, quirkyness and all. Most of the artilces that I had read before my BB piece were about other martial artist talking about themselves, but always throwing in the Professor's name to bolster their position in the MA's world. I just thought he deserved to be showcased and remembered as the one-of-a-kind, type of man that he was. I have many other fond and funny memories of him that I may write about someday. Take care!
The Thunderbolt lives!

Aloha Nui,
Jim Perkins


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## The Perk

Danjo,
I don't remember his last name, he was a fireman for the city of Pearl, I think. He was 28 or 29 at that time, Hawaiian or Island heritage, as was Walter. He wore a Kung Fu uniform and was horter but very strong and powerful, much like the Professor. Don't know if he is still active, never spoke with him after I left. Spoke with Walter a couple times on the phone after I moved back to the mainland, but no contact with him since the Professor died. Happy to answer any questions I have knowledge of.

Aloha Nui,
Jim Perkins


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## Danjo

The Perk said:


> Danjo,
> I don't remember his last name, he was a fireman for the city of Pearl, I think. He was 28 or 29 at that time, Hawaiian or Island heritage, as was Walter. He wore a Kung Fu uniform and was horter but very strong and powerful, much like the Professor. Don't know if he is still active, never spoke with him after I left. Spoke with Walter a couple times on the phone after I moved back to the mainland, but no contact with him since the Professor died. Happy to answer any questions I have knowledge of.
> 
> Aloha Nui,
> Jim Perkins


 
Thank you for the information.


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## Doc

The Perk said:


> Ron, glad you posted originally and glad to hear from you. I am familiar with your name as well and it's always mentioned with admiration. I'm also glad you knew and felt kindly towards Sensei Alo. I have not kept up much with Kenpo on line, but I'm glad to see so many great Kenpo artist are interested in the Professor. He was one of a kind and I wrote the piece to honor his memory and let people know about the real Professor, quirkyness and all. Most of the artilces that I had read before my BB piece were about other martial artist talking about themselves, but always throwing in the Professor's name to bolster their position in the MA's world. I just thought he deserved to be showcased and remembered as the one-of-a-kind, type of man that he was. I have many other fond and funny memories of him that I may write about someday. Take care!
> The Thunderbolt lives!
> 
> Aloha Nui,
> Jim Perkins


Ron Alo was a fixture in Southern California in the golden era of tournaments and camaraderie among martial artists before the politics set in. He was always a soft spoken gentleman and a class act. 

People today seemed to be polarized in that they seem to want to claim Mitose as the progenitor and as "Chow's teacher." Parker dismissed that as "rediculous."  Despite their differences, Parker never forgot where he came from and whom gave him his start, and always made a point to say so.

Parker always said that he felt Kwai Sun had been burned by Mitose and became distrustful of people as a result. He attributed this experience as the reason Chow was reluctant to join him when Parker tried to bring him to the mainland. He would have been wholly dependent on others and he wasn't comfortable with that prospect. The "Professor" has always been a controversial character, but no one ever suggested that he wasn't capable of backing up every bit of what he had to say, whether you liked it or not. Parker often described Chow as "fearless." Parker was quoted in an interview as saying, "Mitose showed me nothing, but Chow was truly an impressive man."


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## youngbraveheart

The Perk said:


> ...I guess he doesn't remember calling me when the Professor died and telling me to stop sending money to Patsy Chow, Professor's wife. (I sent money to the Professor and Patsy often) He said he had several photos of me that the Professor had and several of my letters and asked me to write and sign a sworn affadavit that stated the Professor had wanted him (Sam) to take over the system when he died. I told him I couldn't do that because that's not what the Professor told me...


 
....interesting...


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## youngbraveheart

gmkuoha said:


> ...In this article, I don't know who this Jim Perkins is, but he never says he trained with Professor Chow and in fact I remember at that time, Professor calling me by phone and telling me that some guy under Alo was there asking him all kinds of questions and what should he do. I told him to contact Dr. Perry and do not talk to this guy or do not sign anything or teach him anything. This can be verified through Dr. Perry as he knows everything and everybody that went to visit Professor and for what reason. I later spoke to Professor and I remember him telling me that he didn't sign nothing and didn't say too much to him, which showed in this very short...concise so...called lost interview. Evidently his memory is not so good as he states he went home and tried to remember what he had been told so I think more then a few of his memory brain cells have lapsed...


 
Okay, sooooo..we have some controversy...it is very interesting!


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## John Bishop

As a martial arts journalist and book author who has written around 70 articles for 10 differant magazines in 3 countries, I have done dozens of interviews and cover stories.  So I know one of the most important things to a magazine is timeliness. 
So I just gotta ask.  Why did you wait 20 years to submit this interview for publication?  Especially a interview of someone like Prof. Chow. 
I can probably count on one hand the numbers of articles written about him (two being by me), and don't think there has ever been a interview of him published before yours.


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## The Perk

Hi John,
I also have written dozens of pieces for MA magazines, had my own columns and written for many other types of publications as well as a couple books. I admire all your stuff, by the way!!
I didn't start writing for the MA magz until the mid nineties and I didn't go there to write about him. I went there to Learn Kara Ho, but ended up becoming a friend of a legend instead. I wrote the piece after getting upset, once again, with another piece about a big shot who used the Professor's name to tout their own credibilty. 
That's why I wrote it when I did. I didn't want to feel that I was writing about him to bolster my own rep. I hadn't seen anything about him in years except people who name dropped. That's what I can tell you as to the timing. Hope that makes sense...sensei. (sorry, bad pun)
Aloha,
Jim Perkins


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## John Bishop

The Perk said:


> Hi John,
> I also have written dozens of pieces for MA magazines, had my own columns and written for many other types of publications as well as a couple books. I admire all your stuff, by the way!!
> I didn't start writing for the MA magz until the mid nineties and I didn't go there to write about him. I went there to Learn Kara Ho, but ended up becoming a friend of a legend instead. I wrote the piece after getting upset, once again, with another piece about a big shot who used the Professor's name to tout their own credibilty.
> That's why I wrote it when I did. I didn't want to feel that I was writing about him to bolster my own rep. I hadn't seen anything about him in years except people who name dropped. That's what I can tell you as to the timing. Hope that makes sense...sensei. (sorry, bad pun)
> Aloha,
> Jim Perkins



OK.  Thanks for the clarification.  Just curious, since it was very rare to have any writings about Prof. Chow.  
We were just discussing him on another forum last week, and the only written book referance to him we could find other then SGM Parker's books was James Yimm Lee's 1962 book.  So to have a actual interview with him suitable for publication would be a great prize.  
So I guess it's better late then never.


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## GSJKCK

Danjo said:


> Do you remember Jacob's last name and if he is still active?


 
I know this is an old post but I don't think anyone has answered this question. The Jacob mentioned in the article has recently thanked Master Chun for his dedication to the Professa's Kempo and the Plaque at the YMCA in Hawaii. You can read about a recent visit on our website in the news\events page. http://www.chinesekempo.org/news.htm


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## Danjo

GSJKCK said:


> I know this is an old post but I don't think anyone has answered this question. The Jacob mentioned in the article has recently thanked Master Chun for his dedication to the Professa's Kempo and the Plaque at the YMCA in Hawaii. You can read about a recent visit on our website in the news\events page. http://www.chinesekempo.org/news.htm


 
Brian (see I didn't even call you "Rob" like I did in the earlier email---sorry), thanks for the information and link.


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## dianhsuhe

I know a MR Jacob Goetz who is a long time student of GM Chun Jr. and an advocate of GSJKCK.  Not sure if that is what you are looking for.

Oops! never mind it looks like Brian-San has answered this post above.

Mr Paladeau and Mr Goetz are quality martial artists and gentlemen on these forums, even if we have had disagreements in the past-

I hope that some day Kara-Ho and GSJKCK can become "friends" and realize we both teach true Professor Chow techniques.

Full bow,
Jamey


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## GSJKCK

dianhsuhe said:


> I know a MR Jacob Goetz who is a long time student of GM Chun Jr. and an advocate of GSJKCK. Not sure if that is what you are looking for.
> 
> Oops! never mind it looks like Brian-San has answered this post above.
> 
> Mr Paladeau and Mr Goetz are quality martial artists and gentlemen on these forums, even if we have had disagreements in the past-
> 
> I hope that some day Kara-Ho and GSJKCK can become "friends" and realize we both teach true Professor Chow techniques.
> 
> Full bow,
> Jamey


 
Thanks for the kind words Jamey!

We can always agree to disagree and remain friends. We are in the same family tree with Chow as our Root.  I appreciate your positive character.
Maybe one day we will see our Instructors sharing at the same seminar.

Respectfully,

Brian


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