# Just pokin the bears ;)



## Tgace (Oct 3, 2004)

Just got this e-mail...one of those "pass it around" things.


"I'm trying to get all this political stuff straightened out in my head
so I can persuade all my friends not make a stupid choice and vote for a guy
from Massachusetts who talks funny and mispronounces words like Gingas Khan
and nuclear this November. He doesn't talk or act like us Texans, or for
that matter most people in the South. Right now, we have one guy saying one
thing. Then the other guy says something else. For the most part I know
who to believe and he's nicknamed "W". Let me see; have I got this
straight? 

Clinton awards Halliburton no-bid contract in Yugoslavia -good... 
Bush awards Halliburton no-bid contract in Iraq - bad... 

Clinton spends 77 billion on war in Serbia - good... 
Bush spends 87 billion in Iraq - bad... 

Clinton imposes regime change in Serbia - good... 
Bush imposes regime change in Iraq - bad... 

Clinton bombs Christian Serbs on behalf of Muslim Albanian 
terrorists- good... 
Bush liberates 25 million from a genocidal dictator - bad... 

Clinton bombs Chinese embassy - good.. 
Bush bombs terrorist camps - bad... 

Clinton commits felonies while in office - good... 
Bush lands on aircraft carrier in jumpsuit - bad... 

No mass graves found in Serbia - good... 
No WMD found Iraq - bad... 

Stock market crashes in 2000 under Clinton - good... 
Economy on upswing under Bush - bad... 

Clinton refuses to take custody of Bin Laden - good... 
World Trade Centers fall under Bush - bad... 

Clinton says Saddam has nukes - good... 
Bush says Saddam has nukes - bad... 

Clinton calls for regime change in Iraq - good... 
Bush imposes regime change in Iraq - bad... 

Terrorist training in Afghanistan under Clinton - good... 
Bush destroys training camps in Afghanistan - bad... 

Milosevic not yet convicted - good... 
Saddam turned over for trial - bad... 

Ahh, it's so confusing!

Every year an independent tax watchdog group analyzes the
average tax burden on Americans, and then calculates the "Tax Freedom Day".
This is the day after which the money you earn goes to you, not the
government.

This year, tax freedom day was April 11th. That's the earliest it has been
since 1991. Its latest day ever was May 2nd, which occurred in 2000. Notice
anything special about those dates? 

Recently, John Kerry gave a speech in which he claimed Americans are 
actually paying more taxes under Bush, despite the tax cuts. He gave
no explanation and provided no data for this claim. Another interesting
fact: Both George Bush and John Kerry are wealthy men. 

Bush owns only one home, his ranch in Texas. Kerry owns 4 mansions, 
all worth several million dollars. (His ski resort home in Idaho
is an old barn brought over from Europe in pieces? Not your average
A-frame). 

Bush paid $250,000 in taxes this year; Kerry paid $90,000. Does that
sound right? The man who wants to raise your taxes obviously has figured out
a way to avoid paying his own. 

Pass this on. Only 60 days until the election"


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## Tgace (Oct 3, 2004)

I sense the bears are gathering...........


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## Flatlander (Oct 3, 2004)

> No mass graves found in Serbia...


 I don't believe this to be accurate. From this site:



> During Kosovo, Arbour was repeatedly quoted describing atrocities, massacres, mass graves and 740,000 Albanian Kosovars displaced by Serbs.
> 
> She sent teams of investigators and forensic specialists into Kosovo to find evidence. Arbour and her deputy Graham Blewitt defined seven specific sites where massacres had occurred and mass graves existed.


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## Flatlander (Oct 3, 2004)

Tgace said:
			
		

> I sense the bears are gathering...........


:rofl:


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## Tgace (Oct 3, 2004)

Details!!!!!



actually I caught that one too...I was in Bosnia from 99-00. Lived on Halliburton food.


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## rmcrobertson (Oct 3, 2004)

It's not that confusing.

First off, ya trusted an anonymous e-mail--why's this a good idea?

Second off, a number of the comparasions are either far-fetched or incomplete. For example, we kinda left out the whole coalition-building thingy, eh? As in getting UN support vs. telling the UN to go **** itself?

Third off, nothing in this top ten list changes the fact that Bush II is the child of a very wealthy and powerful family, who has been privileged his entire life.

Fourth off, why not add some further comparasions? Bill Clinton admits to getting a blowjob in the Xerox room--bad; George Bush launches undeclared, illegal, and unjustified war, good.

See?  it's easy to do; don't mean diddley.

By the way, I see there's a new Christian Conservative documentary coming out on Bush II. In it, his supporters claim that Bush II was chosen by God. 

That, right there, would do it for me. But hey, keep your mind so open that your brain falls out---isn't, "keeping you mind open," what we're being told all the time by the Right? The guys who ban books, enforce loyalty oaths, try to get evil-lution out of the schools?

Apparently, "pokin the bears," means, "Say some outrageously goofy, then try to recast any criticism as simply pointless carping."


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## Tgace (Oct 3, 2004)

Im sorry...THE NEO-CONS ARE OUT TO TAKE OVER THE WORLD!!!!!!!

Better???


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## rmcrobertson (Oct 3, 2004)

I don't so much mind if it's, "neo-cons," whatever that means.

I do object if it's mean-spirited dorks who aren't very bright and who refuse to look at reality, and whose real point is to push their moral and religious agendas as well as to suck as much money out of the rest of us as they possibly can.


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## Flatlander (Oct 3, 2004)

Nice banana.


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## RandomPhantom700 (Oct 3, 2004)

rmcrobertson's points

1.  What does the source of the email have to do with anything?  Whatever their motives in writing it, the message stands on its own to be criticized.  

2.   Yeah, I agree.

3.   And this, ladies and gentlemen, is a CRIME!  It's right there in the books!  Right there...somewhere...um, just let me find it....hold on...I highlighted it, I swear!

4.   No comment.

As for the documentary, would this be the same god that unleashed 9/11 on us because of all the sin in America that Bush represents?

Oh yeah, love the dancing banana.


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## Makalakumu (Oct 3, 2004)

Tgace said:
			
		

> Im sorry...THE NEO-CONS ARE OUT TO TAKE OVER THE WORLD!!!!!!!
> 
> Better???



Nope.  They are out to reform Islam by force, though.  They also think that the war on terror is WW4.  1.6 billion people "reformed" is a damned tall order.  An interesting book that gives a lot of good info about this is _House of Bush House of Saud_, by Craig Unger.  Check it out.  I never knew a lot of the details surrounding Iran/Contra, the Iran/Iraq war, and the CIAs support of the Mujahideen were so intimately tied to what we are seeing today...


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## michaeledward (Oct 3, 2004)

Tgace said:
			
		

> Just got this e-mail...


Man, I just hope the bear rips your arm off.. it'ld serve you right.


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## RandomPhantom700 (Oct 4, 2004)

Detecting a bit of hostility there, Mr. Edward?


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## kenpo tiger (Oct 4, 2004)

Tgace said:
			
		

> Just got this e-mail...one of those "pass it around" things.
> 
> 
> "I'm trying to get all this political stuff straightened out in my head
> ...


Okay.  First point:  W misprounces nuclear, as do the vast majority of people (nucular).  They also misprounounce veteran (vetran) and a myriad of other words.  So he's 'ignant'.

Secondly, Mr. Kerry is _married_ to a very very wealthy woman, who owns the majority of those homes and properties.  His town house on Beacon Hill is very nice, but not a vast mansion like the one I'm sure W has in the south 40.

Thirdly, and it's Monday, so I must be feeling a bit weak from the weekend, I agree with Robertson.  You trust every email you receive as gospel?  Yeesh.  I have a bridge I can sell you...


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## loki09789 (Oct 4, 2004)

Don't like playing with you Tom it seems.

Maybe it's really 'poking the Teddy Bear' that you ended up doing.


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## loki09789 (Oct 4, 2004)

kenpo tiger said:
			
		

> Okay. First point: W misprounces nuclear, as do the vast majority of people (nucular). They also misprounounce veteran (vetran) and a myriad of other words. So he's 'ignant'.
> 
> Secondly, Mr. Kerry is _married_ to a very very wealthy woman, who owns the majority of those homes and properties. His town house on Beacon Hill is very nice, but not a vast mansion like the one I'm sure W has in the south 40.
> 
> Thirdly, and it's Monday, so I must be feeling a bit weak from the weekend, I agree with Robertson. You trust every email you receive as gospel? Yeesh. I have a bridge I can sell you...


I don't think it was a matter of 'trust' as much as 'alignment.'  The post points something out - if you want to take the time to discredit the source then prove it wrong.

There have been just as thin pieces of text or sources from SERIOUSLY biased sources that have gone unchallenged.

If you can't discuss the topic attack the source I guess.


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## D_Brady (Oct 4, 2004)

Thirdly, and it's Monday, so I must be feeling a bit weak from the weekend, I agree with Robertson.  You trust every email you receive as gospel?  Yeesh.  I have a bridge I can sell you...[/QUOTE]


Maybe CBS can check it out for us.


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## michaeledward (Oct 4, 2004)

Those doin' the pokin' apparently haven't figured out that there is no one on the ballot named 'Clinton'.

That is the first, but certainly not the only problem with the premise. 

And some think the President is an intellectual lightweight ... geesh ... with supporters like this . . . .


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## loki09789 (Oct 4, 2004)

michaeledward said:
			
		

> Those doin' the pokin' apparently haven't figured out that there is no one on the ballot named 'Clinton'.
> 
> That is the first, but certainly not the only problem with the premise.
> 
> And some think the President is an intellectual lightweight ... geesh ... with supporters like this . . . .


Making a point about politics and the formation of political reactions AND how they can create perceptions/judgements...., not trying to say the people are relevant.  

If that is being lost on the interpreters geesh...and who said anything about supporting anyone as much as commenting that is more than just "I hate so and so"?


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## michaeledward (Oct 4, 2004)

loki09789 said:
			
		

> Making a point about politics and the formation of political reactions AND how they can create perceptions/judgements...., not trying to say the people are relevant.
> 
> If that is being lost on the interpreters geesh...and who said anything about supporting anyone as much as commenting that is more than just "I hate so and so"?


BULLHOCKEY ! ! ! 

Look at the title of the thread. Look at the content of the thread. 

This is not a 'Gee, I found this interesting' post. The objective is to continue to disperse falsehoods and suppress knowledge. It is easier to spew hyperbole than to defend defenseless positions. Kick up the dust, so nobody can see.

Again ... BULLHOCKEY!

Some people actually delete SPAM from their inbox.


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## loki09789 (Oct 4, 2004)

michaeledward said:
			
		

> BULLHOCKEY ! ! !
> 
> Look at the title of the thread. Look at the content of the thread.
> 
> ...


Somebody needs a hug......

This is a little light in presentation by Tgace (who cares what the post 'says' to you as much as what TGace is using it for)  to be considered "Spreading Falsehood" I would say.

Is it false to consider or make a point about voter perceptions or the incongruity of how similar actions/policies may be viewed.

YES, it is not verifiable or substantial in sourcing, but can you dispute that the disparity in public approval/reaction to the similar actions/policies?

I have said in the past that the "Cowboy President" persona has worn thin on many Americans (and probably Foreign Diplomacy too).  This could just as easily be seen as an indicator of how Bush has shot himself in the foot as it is an observation on voters....


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## Tgace (Oct 4, 2004)

Fishin' is so easy when you use the right bait. Ill have to try some Republican bait next time to see what I catch..... 

Funny how when you look at some of the other "who would win in a fight King Kong or Godzilla" threads nobody complains about waste of bandwidth. Mention politics though....

Must have been all that Halliburton water I drank in 99'.....


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## michaeledward (Oct 4, 2004)

Kaith Rustaz said:
			
		

> This forum is for the serious discussion of non-martial arts topics including world events, social and political issues, or other items not covered in the other forums.
> 
> Please keep thread drift to a minimum, and focus on the main ideas of the topic. If you find yourself drifting off, please start a new thread to focus on it.
> 
> This forum is for the more serious/focused discussions. Please keep the discussions to a friendly level. We understand that some topics will get heated at times. Lets keep it professional, and avoid any personal insults or similar activites out of those debates.


I believe Tgace knew exactly what he was doing. 
I believe Tgace knew exactly what he was posting and where he was posting it.

There is another forum, over there, if one wishes to discuss 'King Kong vs. Godzilla'.


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## RandomPhantom700 (Oct 4, 2004)

You know, despite the humorous thread title, the original post IS about politics, which is very much within The Study's jurisdiction (there I go with legal terms again, but it works).  

Is the point of the "email" close-minded, unrealistic?  Quite possibly.  Does it make a valid point about political double-standards?  I don't think so, but it's worth discussing.  

It's at least worth more than just ignoring it based on who sent it (which has nothing to do with the validity of the content/message) or based on Tgace's intent to rile up a few members here (which, golly gee, nobody else on this forum has ever attempted before, we all KNOW that).


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## rmcrobertson (Oct 4, 2004)

I'm afriad that I agree with Mr. Edwards.

My reasons, though, are a little different (though I certainly agree with the whole, "throw enough mud at the wall...," argument) : I'm about tired of these, "Don't you leftists have a sense of humor?" routines.

In the first place, haven't you ever wondered why right-wing types never seem to produce great comedians? Yes, yes, I know--Dennis Miller. Well, Mr. Miller hasn't been funny in about five years; just about the time he went rightist, his whole act got tireder and tireder. Compare  him to Jon Stewart, who's gotten funnier and funnier, and you'll get my point...

In the second, yes yes, funny joke, ha-ha. "Have you heard the one about the two black guys who walk into a bar....?" Hey, what about the one about the two fags who are watching....hey, didja get the joke about the two lesbians...yes yes, ha-ha, funny funny, regrettably I stopped finding this crap always funny about fifteen years back

It's always the same: deployment of bad comedy in support of ideology, iced over with the old, "It's just a joke! Don't you people have a sense of humor?" frosting just in case anybody says anything.

Of course, oddly enough, topics such as our absurd President, American flag mania, Dick Cheney, Bible-thumpers....NOT A FIT TOPIC FOR COMEDY!!! These are serious times!!! You should support our idiot...uh, President--in time of undeclared pointless war....uh, I mean, action justifiably taken in the name of national defense and feedom-loving peoples throughout the world!!! (Gee...did I substitute, "fee," for, "Free?" I'll be darned.)

But I'm just pokin' the bears. Don't you right-wing nutcases have a sense of humor anymore?


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## RandomPhantom700 (Oct 4, 2004)

Yes, cursed be the one who attempts to interject humor into a topic.  

Incidentally, and if you care to actually respond, who might be the right-wing nutcases who've posted in this topic that you're addressing?


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## TwistofFat (Oct 4, 2004)

michaeledward said:
			
		

> I believe Tgace knew exactly what he was doing.
> I believe Tgace knew exactly what he was posting and where he was posting it.
> 
> There is another forum, over there, if one wishes to discuss 'King Kong vs. Godzilla'.


What did Tgace know and when did he know it?  BearPokeGate?  PokeBearGate?


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## loki09789 (Oct 4, 2004)

TwistofFat said:
			
		

> What did Tgace know and when did he know it? BearPokeGate? PokeBearGate?


Funny how folks who would speak out against McCarthyism and such are now asking him to "Name Names".....


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## michaeledward (Oct 4, 2004)

Tgace said:
			
		

> Clinton spends 77 billion on war in Serbia - good...
> Bush spends 87 billion in Iraq - bad...


For you who called me a 'whiner', you are entitled to your opinion, but Tgace is intentionally spreading lies.

United States Operations in Serbia were around 12 Billion dollars.
http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d02294.pdf

United States Operation in Iraq, to date have surpassed 120 Billion, with additional Billions appropriated.


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## kenpo tiger (Oct 4, 2004)

Why, if Clinton is cited as the comparison, weren't the good things he accomplished as president worth mentioning? Even the (few) good things (one might find) that W has done?

You posit negative, you get negative in this case.

Don't these people who write these kinds of emails have lives (other than the internet)?


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## Tkang_TKD (Oct 4, 2004)

D_Brady said:
			
		

> Maybe CBS can check it out for us.


Or maybe Fox News? http://www.usatoday.com/news/politicselections/nation/president/2004-10-02-fox-kerry_x.htm


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## Tgace (Oct 4, 2004)

> The item also quoted Kerry as saying of himself and President Bush: "I'm metrosexual &#8212; he's a cowboy."



Pretty creative writing.....what a knucklehead.


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## Feisty Mouse (Oct 4, 2004)

I think that's pretty funny.  But I like self-deprecating humor.


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## Tgace (Oct 4, 2004)

Here lets make everybody happy now....

dread the thought of bush being Presendent!

Election Propaganda

I'm trying to get all this political stuff straightened out in my head
so I'll know how to vote come November. Right now, we have one guy saying
one thing. Then the other guy says something else. Who to believe. Let me
see; have I got this straight?

Clinton awards Halliburton contract in Yugoslavia - good...
Bush awards Halliburton no-bid contract in Iraq , cheney bankin it- bad...

Clinton spends 77 billion on war in Serbia -finished the job,the world respects us, good...
Bush spends 200+ billion in Iraq and counting, we getting our butts kicked 1000 dead,1000's mamed country is in chaos- bad...

Clinton and the world imposes regime change in Serbia - good...
Bush and neo-cons and jews imposes regime change in Iraq , the damn country is in a mess- bad...

Clinton bombs Christian Serb criminals on behalf of Muslim Albanian women and children-good...
Bush goes to iraq on false intel from jews kills 1000's of iraqi's the whole world hates us - bad...

airforce bombs Chinese embassy by accident apologizes and the chinese accept it - good...
Bush bombs cities kills women and children to make up for daddy's mistakes oil buddies stand to make a killing- bad...

Clinton takes country to prosperity surplus- good...
Bush lands on aircraft carrier in jumpsuit while soldiers are getting killed for lies and still are,us showing record deficits- bad...

mass graves found in Serbia - good...
No WMD,no nukes no nothing found in Iraq - bad...

Stock market soars under Clinton - good...
Economy crashes, millions unemployed, millions have no insurance ,millions in poverty under Bush - bad...

Clinton handles Bin Laden ,keeps him in check- good...
World Trade Centers fall under Bush he sits there reading my pet goat for 15 minutes- bad...

Milosevic not yet convicted in jail- good...
Saddam turned over for trial not yet convicted- good...

Ahh, it's so confusing!

tax burden has shifted to middle class for first time while 85% of companies did not pay taxes under bush--bad

Recently, John Kerry gave a speech in which he claimed Americans are
actually paying more taxes under Bush, despite the tax cuts. this happens to be the fact
Another interesting fact: Both George Bush and John Kerry are wealthy men.
Bush owns only one home, his ranch in Texas he bought after ripping off arlington residents on stadium deal ran two companies bk. Kerry owns 4 mansions he worked for,all worth several million dollars. (His ski resort home in Idaho is an old barn brought over from Europe in pieces. Not your average A-frame).

The conclusion; you must be dumb to love Bush. you have to be have an iq to vote for a hero like Kerry!

Only stupid people suck down the lies from the neo-con #$@%%#'s!


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## SMP (Oct 4, 2004)

michaeledward said:
			
		

> For you who called me a 'whiner', you are entitled to your opinion, but Tgace is intentionally spreading lies.
> 
> United States Operations in Serbia were around 12 Billion dollars.
> http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d02294.pdf
> ...


 

I was wondering why you neglected to include a dudgeting report for Iraq ?

Not does not look very good to point a finger then only half follow through.


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## OULobo (Oct 4, 2004)

Tgace said:
			
		

> Here lets make everybody happy now....
> 
> dread the thought of bush being Presendent!
> 
> ...




What is this, sedate the bear you poked. Nice sum up.  :lol: 


If bear pokin was a sport, you could be an olympian, a one armed one, but still a medal contender.


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## michaeledward (Oct 4, 2004)

SMP said:
			
		

> I was wondering why you neglected to include a dudgeting report for Iraq ?
> 
> Not does not look very good to point a finger then only half follow through.


Yeah, it probably doesn't look good. I did not quote the Iraq numbers because I figured this information was much more available. There have been several numbers thrown around. Kerry said 200 billion in the debate. The fact check organizations after the debate say 120 billion. Project Billboard says 141 billion. Doesn't really matter which one you choose, although, I prefer Project Billboard. http://www.projectbillboard.org 

And, what will the Iraq cost be when we are looking back 8 years from now? Does anyone think we will not spend the 200 billion? 300 billion?

Perhaps you all remember that we were told that the Iraqi Oil was going to be able to pay for all the reconstruction anyhow ... and it wasn't going to cost the American Taxpayer very much money, at all. Oh, yeah, and when some people in the Congress wanted to make some of the money 'loans' (you remember, that 87 billion), the President threatened a veto. 



> *Speaker:* Wolfowitz, Paul - Deputy Secretary of Defense
> *Date:* 3/27/2003
> *Quote/Claim:*
> The oil revenues of Iraq could bring between $50 and $100 billion over the course of the next two or three yearsWe're dealing with a country that can really finance its own reconstruction, and relatively soon. [Source: Congressional Testimony]
> ...


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## Tgace (Oct 4, 2004)

OULobo said:
			
		

> What is this, sedate the bear you poked. Nice sum up. :lol:
> 
> 
> If bear pokin was a sport, you could be an olympian, a one armed one, but still a medal contender.


Yeah...I lost the other one in a tragic pokin gone awry.


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## kenpo tiger (Oct 4, 2004)

There was a story on our local news tonight about two women who got into a 'brawl' over Bush vs. Kerry.  The one woman, who didn't live in the building, 62 years old, came in with a Bush poster and some other literature.  Well, one of the residents of the building took exception to that, in spite of the things being 'for a friend', and told the first woman to 'get rid of that garbage - now!'  She didn't comply, and the second woman started hitting her on the arms so she would drop everything.  First woman filed a police report.

Oh yes.  The second woman (the attacker) is 86 years old - a retired Economics professor.  She stated "I just don't know what came over me, but I was incensed!  I'm usually such a rational person."

Poke _that_ bear...


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## PeachMonkey (Oct 4, 2004)

kenpo tiger said:
			
		

> There was a story on our local news tonight about two women who got into a 'brawl' over Bush vs. Kerry.  The one woman, who didn't live in the building, 62 years old, came in with a Bush poster and some other literature.  Well, one of the residents of the building took exception to that, in spite of the things being 'for a friend', and told the first woman to 'get rid of that garbage - now!'  She didn't comply, and the second woman started hitting her on the arms so she would drop everything.  First woman filed a police report.



I've got $5 that says that O'Reilly will feature this story to show how "violent" liberals are, and how "oppressed" the "patriots" who support Bush really are.


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## Tgace (Oct 4, 2004)

Strange...most of the Kerry supporters here have been so nice.


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## kenpo tiger (Oct 5, 2004)

You all have obviously never visited the upper West Side of NYC, which is where the altercation took place.  A bastion of liberalism, as opposed to the upper East Side, which is primarily Bush country.

Wanna bet the old lady is a relative of Robertson's????:idunno:


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## rmcrobertson (Oct 5, 2004)

If she'd shared my genetic material, she wouldn't have hit anybody, especially not for such a silly reason as this.

She'd have outargued everybody else and provided better references.


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## RandomPhantom700 (Oct 5, 2004)

So nobody in your family has ever been in a fight, huh?


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## rmcrobertson (Oct 5, 2004)

Not over something as dumb as that. Beer, the Orioles, fishing, Jacques Derrida--something serious, sure.

But as I've remarked before, I don't think that martial arts is really a matter of fighting, anyway.


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## kenpo tiger (Oct 5, 2004)

rmcrobertson said:
			
		

> If she'd shared my genetic material, she wouldn't have hit anybody, especially not for such a silly reason as this.
> 
> She'd have outargued everybody else and provided better references.


Gotcha.:mp5: 

Besides, she was extremely articulate in her interview. 

Off to watch the debate.


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## Tgace (Oct 5, 2004)

Been quiet lately....

http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20041005/1063016.asp

COMMENTARY
A statement of belief in Bush 

10/5/2004  

By MARY KUNZ 

How sweet it is, to be able to mouth off to your boss. 
Or your ex-boss, anyway. I'm talking about Murray Light, the former editor of The Buffalo News. He hired me 11 years ago, and I always liked that about him (along with his knowledge of what makes a good martini). 

But for months now, I've had to weather his attacks on President Bush. One column bore the headline "Bush popularity hard to understand." 

And guess what? Now, I can speak up. 

If Bush's popularity is hard to understand - well, I'll explain it. The best way to do this might be by explaining what makes many Republicans like myself tick. This Buffalo gal believes that: 

 Fundamental to the human spirit is a yearning for freedom. Given the choice, people in Iraq, though they've never known freedom, will embrace it. Democracy is the greatest gift America can offer the world. I flatly reject the argument that cultural relativism gives tyranny a pass. 

 Bush has a real war plan. It's easy for his opponent, John Kerry, to say, had he been president on Sept. 11, 2001, that he would have done everything differently. As Patti LuPone puts it, "Coulda, woulda, shoulda." 

 I say, right war, right place, right time. In the short term, Bush's plan takes the war to the enemy so we don't have to fight them here at home. In the long term, a free Iraq will weaken its totalitarian neighbors. It will be much harder for Arab nations harboring terrorists to operate with a U.S. ally on their borders. Bush believes the democratization of these tyrannical states will be the stabilizing force that brings a peaceful future for our children. 

 Bush is realistic. In Thursday's debate, Kerry relished proclaiming that Osama bin Laden, and not Saddam Hussein, attacked us. True, but that doesn't mean bin Laden is our only enemy. In action movies, civilization is saved by offing one mega-villain. Reality, though, is different. 

Al-Qaida is designed to be fail-safe, like the Internet - decentralized, redundant, tough to eradicate. Islamic fundamentalists have declared a take-no-prisoners holy war against the United States. They won't be stopped by diplomacy, sensitivity or a six-month war. The Democrats' politicization of the Iraq war shows some of them missed the 9/11 wake-up call and others have a callous disregard for our security. We need real resolve. 

 Kerry lacks that resolve. He has said we have to win in Iraq but has often contradicted himself for political expediency and said the war has been a mistake. 

 Bush believes 35 percent is the highest income tax rate anyone should pay. Me too. Income taxes weren't originally intended to redistribute wealth or punish achievement but to fund necessary government services. 

 Most feel-good social programs championed by Democrats have harmed many people. While arguably a worthy experiment, they've condemned generations to a cycle of poverty, dependence and shame while depriving society's weakest members. 

 I can't stand the way Democrats patronize people with incentives not to succeed in order to perpetuate an underclass voting constituency. John Edwards' "Two Americas" is a tired trick to divide America and rally the poor against the rich, encouraging the poor to stay poor and voting Democratic. 

 I like Bush, personally. You know where he stands. I respect his convictions, even the few I don't share. I get a kick out of that schoolboy giggle: "My opponent could spend 90 minutes debating with himself." And I like how he doesn't hide what he's feeling. Yes, he looked tired at Thursday's debate. Kerry had spent the day getting a manicure and a tan. Bush had to work. 

 The debate's first question was: "Who can best prevent another 9/11?" Bush can. He already has. 


e-mail: mkunz@buffnews.com


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## heretic888 (Oct 5, 2004)

Well, there is a lotta garbage in the previous post (no offense) that I personally disagree with, but this one stuck to me...



> The Democrats' politicization of the Iraq war shows some of them missed the 9/11 wake-up call and others have a callous disregard for our security. We need real resolve.



I absolutely _love_ how conservative Republicans collapse 9/11 and the Iraq war --- even though we all know full well now that there is absolutely no connection between Saddam Hussein and "terrorism". Talk about politicization. These guys are going to be using 9/11 to justify everything they do for the next 25 years.

Gawd.


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## kenpo tiger (Oct 6, 2004)

heretic888 said:
			
		

> Well, there is a lotta garbage in the previous post (no offense) that I personally disagree with, but this one stuck to me...
> 
> I absolutely _love_ how conservative Republicans collapse 9/11 and the Iraq war --- even though we all know full well now that there is absolutely no connection between Saddam Hussein and "terrorism". Talk about politicization. These guys are going to be using 9/11 to justify everything they do for the next 25 years.
> 
> Gawd.


And further to your comments, Herry:  cheapening the deaths of almost 3,000 innocents, whose only crimes were being Americans and reporting to work to earn a living wage to feed and support their families and themselves is despicable.  To use 9/11 as a political cudgel is disgraceful.  If it was so important to Bush, where's the rest of the federal funds we were promised??!!

New York should secede!


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## rmcrobertson (Oct 6, 2004)

While it's impossible to sort through the endless tangle of goofy nonsense, distortions of history, bizarre ideology, and just plain lies in that newspaper piece, I DID think that the single funniest bit was, "Bush is realistic."

Here's a guy who honestly thinks that gigantic tax cuts for the wealthiest will lead to financial stability and that we can nation-build in Iraq (though his VP several times claimed that we couldn't, which was why we shouldn't go into Iraq)--and oh yes, who honestly believes he's been chosen by God to lead America.

And he's the realistic one.

Oooookayyy, all righty then.


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## pete (Oct 6, 2004)

Kenpo Tiger said:
			
		

> New York should secede!


 as if anyone else, besides maybe jersey, would stand in its way.


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## kenpo tiger (Oct 6, 2004)

pete said:
			
		

> as if anyone else, besides maybe jersey, would stand in its way.


might make your tai chi commute tough then.


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## Feisty Mouse (Oct 6, 2004)

pete said:
			
		

> as if anyone else, besides maybe jersey, would stand in its way.


I'd want to keep it!  If nothing else, the finances of the country would suffer.


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## Tkang_TKD (Oct 6, 2004)

Feisty Mouse said:
			
		

> I'd want to keep it! If nothing else, the finances of the country would suffer.


That's happened without New York seceeding(sp?).


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## Feisty Mouse (Oct 6, 2004)

True - but it just wouldn't be the same without people from all over the country going to wander around Manhattan and be engulfed by waves of impatient, irritable, interesting people.


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## kenpo tiger (Oct 7, 2004)

Feisty Mouse said:
			
		

> True - but it just wouldn't be the same without people from all over the country going to wander around Manhattan and be engulfed by waves of impatient, irritable, interesting people.


What makes you say that?  Huh?  Huh? :ultracool


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