# EPAK Curiousity



## Zoran (Apr 18, 2002)

As many of you may already know, I am not EPAK or Tracy. The Kenpo system I come from would be considered an off-shoot. My lineage is Parker/McSweeney/Saviano.

We still employ the same Kenpo principles, just our method is very different. Example, _(correct me if I'm wrong)_ there are aprox. 154 SD techniques in EPAK. We have very few prearranged SD techniques that we have to learn. What we do learn are several "variations" of SD tech. By the time you test for BB, you are required to show all "base techniques" with 4 "variations" for each. These variations are not prearranged and need to come out natuarally. The main requirement at that level is effectiveness and ability to adapt.

These are only empty handed defenses. It's not counting defense against knife, hand gun, club and etc. Also, we have what we call "spontaneous" defense. Basically it's when you will have no idea what type of attack will be thrown at you. At BB level, it's all against an armed attacker while you are empty handed. 

Anyway, here is my question. Does EPAK have something similar, and could someone describe it to me? I originally started in EPAK under Lee Wedlake back in 81-82. I was only there long enough to get to purple.


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## Rainman (Apr 18, 2002)

The short answer is yes but in many different ways.   It may come in the form of a drill such as delayed sword for a rt. round kick whereas a universal block is added...  We have the equation formula that gives us many tools.   If you look at the offensive teks they may more closely resemble what your thinking about.  I hate to say this again but book V of Infinite Insights would probably give a better answer on some of the how's and why's of AK.

:asian:


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## Klondike93 (Apr 18, 2002)

Zoran, could you describe some of the base techniques and variations you talk about?
My kenpo instructor started with Mr. Wedlake too but I'm not sure when (in Chicago).

:asian:


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## kenpo3631 (Apr 18, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Rainman _
> 
> *The short answer is yes but in many different ways.   It may come in the form of a drill such as delayed sword for a rt. round kick whereas a universal block is added...  We have the equation formula that gives us many tools.   If you look at the offensive teks they may more closely resemble what your thinking about.  I hate to say this again but book V of Infinite Insights would probably give a better answer on some of the how's and why's of AK.
> 
> :asian: *



Did you know that there are deficiencies in Mr. Parker's books? Some placed on purpose and some are oversights. So all this look at book V stuff, not all of his stuff was the way he wanted it. It was to tell if someone was B.S' ing him that they learned from a legit instructor or from a book. Example - the Two Man Set in the Secrets of Chinese Karate has incorrect moves.

But like I said I was not there, so how could I know this...:asian:


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## Zoran (Apr 18, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Klondike93 _
> 
> *Zoran, could you describe some of the base techniques and variations you talk about? *



Our base techniques _(which means that they are prearranged)_ are not the EPAK techniques. Although, there is a tech called flying hammers that is similar to thundering hammers. The strikes use large circles instead of small. There is another tech for a defense against a 2 hand lapel grab. Think of Lone Kimono without the first movement to hyperextend the elbow, second move is almost the same as our first move and the handblade is a full circle handblade. John McSweeney (god rest his soul) felt that quantity hinders quality _(my words and definition to his thoughts, as a spoke to him quite often)_.

Variations are nothing more than you're own self-defense technique. During class on self-defense, we would start with a base tech for a certain attack, then he would continue to teach other ways of defending against that attack. During the course of your training, you may learn several ways to defend against that particular attack. Sometimes you are encouraged to be creative and create your own stuff, with supervision. Even if what you tried is completely ineffective, you are able to learn from your mistakes.  As you test for Brown 3 to 1st Black, you have to have more variations. The whole purpose of this exercise is to create unique, effective, and adaptable fighters.



> *My kenpo instructor started with Mr. Wedlake too but I'm not sure when (in Chicago).*



I started with Mr. Wedlake in the Jan. 1981 and left around Sept. 1982. The schools name was Dragon Wind, and it was in the Southwest Suburbs of Chicago. I remember Jim Lowel who was a Brown Belt at the time. I think he's a 5th or 6th now. I left because I was young and stupid. :drink2tha 

Long winded reply. Just hard to explain our system in a couple sentences.


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## Rainman (Apr 18, 2002)

Yeah, yeah me and book v.  It was particularly relevent to these discussions because of sd teks and offensive/freestyle teks and the definitions and listings of what can go on during a particular combination.  In my opinion very basic stuff and also a very helpful point of reference.

Yes some of the material was taken from older parts of ak's evolution.  I had heard that about 2 man set, but also while traveling I had practiced a version that while still simular to our version it had some combinations that left me scratching my head.
That was from one of the larger associations passed down from a  MA.  

:asian:


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## Goldendragon7 (Apr 19, 2002)

that there in fact were several oversites and poor proof reading but the gist is there.  And for those who were there it is as plain as day.  As for those that were not...... well they will just have to guess. lol

:asian:


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## Zoran (Apr 19, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Goldendragon7 _
> 
> *As for those that were not...... well they will just have to guess. lol
> 
> :asian: *



OW....Argh.....eeooow... ugh....
Sheez, warn me next time, I wasn't wearing a cup.:erg:


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## Goldendragon7 (Apr 19, 2002)

:rofl: 
:asian:


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## Klondike93 (Apr 19, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Goldendragon7 _
> 
> *that there in fact were several oversites and poor proof reading but the gist is there.  And for those who were there it is as plain as day.  As for those that were not...... well they will just have to guess. lol
> 
> :asian: *



Or just keep bugging you .... 

:asian:


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## Rob_Broad (Apr 21, 2002)

I say we are quite lucky to be able to have access to someone like GoldenDragon.  His insights have helped  many of us to understand the art that we love much better.


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## Goldendragon7 (Apr 21, 2002)

Will get  you guys  everywhere!

lol

:asian: 

you guys make me blush


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## Kirk (Apr 21, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Bonehead _
> 
> *I say we are quite lucky to be able to have access to someone like GoldenDragon.  His insights have helped  many of us to understand the art that we love much better. *




Major dittos!  But it's necessary to include yourself in that group,
Rob.  It hasn't been typical until recently, that an orange belt can 
talk to a 4th black everyday, about basic things.

I hope you both know you're appreciated!


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## Goldendragon7 (Apr 21, 2002)

:hammer: :cheers: :wavey:


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## Zoran (Apr 23, 2002)

All of a sudden, I feel all fuzzy inside.
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wait, it's just a hairball. :barf:


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## brianhunter (Apr 25, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Kirk _
> 
> *
> 
> ...




I too appreciate this...........Ive been very lucky, to be taught by Tom Kelly and have access to Mr.C...he is very easy to ask questions and hes a straight shooter!


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## Goldendragon7 (Apr 26, 2002)

:asian:


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## kenposikh (Sep 24, 2003)

Err spontaneous reaction is what we all strive for the SDT's are there to teach us a language of motion but don't forget the attacker plays an all important role also. Leading to an awareness of different types of attack. Not everyone attacks in the same way and recognition of these different types of attacks helps us to be spontaneous.

Therefore training with many different partners is a must.


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