# Wing Chun sparring basics



## kaimynas (Feb 8, 2013)

hello,

I'm 25 old and I training WC for about 5 months. After I gained first level - I''ve been transferred to not-rookies-group.
In some workout days after base training we have a slow-sparring with MMA gloves. I forgot to mention that these 5months is first Martial Arts training months in my life, before this i was doing bodybuilding for about 3 years.. So back to sparring topic. At sparring I'm feeling little disorganized, i feel that my reaction is very slow. I'm always trying to protect my nose - and it feels that the more I protect - the more i'm getting hit into the nose Also for me it's hard to protect from simple straight punches... which i feel should be easiest hits to block... i can't overcome myself to hit my sparring partner into his head instead his stomach... applying the techniques we learning into the sparring situation is also hard as hell..

maybe you guys have some advices or videos on this situation.. i really like Wing Chun and i want to be better at this martial art. Thanks..


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## Tez3 (Feb 8, 2013)

I can't give you WC advice but can tell you that what you are experiencing is normal for someone starting to spar in any style! It's trying to do what you've been taught whilst using your head arms, hands, feet and legs at the same time all while being hit by someone else! It will come and you will get good advice from the people here.


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## geezer (Feb 8, 2013)

_Tez_ is spot on. Give it time and the pieces will come together. 

Another thing. Get a little more _offensive_. If you don't want to get hit in the nose, Hit the other guy in the nose. One of the best defenses against against a straight punch ...is a straight punch. But you have to punch high against a high punch and low against a low punch. Your punch will deflect your opponent's punch, and your offense puts him on defense. Remember the old WC kuen kuit and _let your attacking hand be your defending hand_. Have fun and let us know how things turn out.


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## WC_lun (Feb 8, 2013)

As Tez said, what you are going through is normal.  To progress and get better, train your tail off and trust that training.  If you understand and implement WC training, your centerline (includes your nose) will be very difficult to strike.  It takes knowing what you train worls and the experience to relax and let it work.  Most beginners I've been around also have the dual tendincies of putting too much stress on themselves making thier bodies too tense for fluid movement, and the tendency to make everything more complicated than it has to be.


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## yak sao (Feb 8, 2013)

You say you keep getting hit in the nose and that you only go for the stomach...that may be part of the problem.
If you are going low while directly in front of your opponent, then your opponent hits high, right to the old nose.
Don't go to the stomach when directly in front of your opponent, unles you are wedging down on his arms.
Always stay behind your hands, wedging out his punch or wedging it down.
If at his flank, then going low is less of a problem, control the arm of the side you are on, keeping his center turned away from you, while you attack.

Don't be discouraged, we've all gone thru it.


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## mook jong man (Feb 8, 2013)

Practice four corner deflection.
Partner throws in sequence at a moderate speed these punches to your head: RIGHT HOOK then LEFT HOOK.
Then straight away without pause he throws these punches at your gut: RIGHT UPPER CUT then LEFT UPPER CUT.

Use the appropriated defences according to your lineage.

That is your basic four corner exercise , but because your having a bit of trouble with straight punches we will add a bit more to the sequence.
So after the upper cuts to the gut have your partner throw right and left straight punches to your face.

The whole sequence done without any pause between the punches will be as follows: 
RIGHT HOOK and LEFT HOOK TO THE HEAD
RIGHT UPPER CUT and LEFT UPPER CUT TO THE GUT
RIGHT STRAIGHT PUNCH and LEFT STRAIGHT PUNCH TO THE FACE
A total of six punches.
Have the partner increase the speed as you get better.

Now go and practice that about a  gazillion times.


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## geezer (Feb 8, 2013)

mook jong man said:


> RIGHT HOOK and LEFT HOOK TO THE HEAD
> RIGHT UPPER CUT and LEFT UPPER CUT TO THE GUT
> RIGHT STRAIGHT PUNCH and LEFT STRAIGHT PUNCH TO THE FACE
> A total of six punches.
> ...




_Then scramble the order_ so sometimes your partner throws a high right hook and a high left hook, 
other times: a right high hook and then a low left gut shot or high left and low right, 
or he can double up on one side throwing a low shot and high shot with the same hand...
Do it stationary and then moving, and have some fun.

This drill isn't emphasized a lot in my association, but since I also do escrima, I get exposed to a lot of people with more boxing moves like hooks and uppercuts. This "four corners" drill helps sharpen me up for dealing with stuff coming in at angles like this.


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## mook jong man (Feb 8, 2013)

geezer said:


> _Then scramble the order_ so sometimes your partner throws a high right hook and a high left hook,
> other times: a right high hook and then a low left gut shot or high left and low right,
> or he can double up on one side throwing a low shot and high shot with the same hand...
> Do it stationary and then moving, and have some fun.
> ...



Yep that's the way , once they get comfortable with it and can do it half decent.
Then you start ramping up the intensity and doing it in a random sequence and random timing , as well as adding other variables like moving as you said.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Feb 9, 2013)

kaimynas said:


> the more I protect - the more i'm getting hit into the nose..


You should try to make your opponent to protect his nose instead. Offense is the best defense.


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## Argus (Feb 10, 2013)

If you're having a hard time dealing with straight punches, you're probably not covering your centerline, or chasing your opponent's center.

I'm not any more experienced than you are, but I find keeping the following things in mind helps:
1) Hands in the center. Chase your opponent's center, not his hands.
2) When on the outside, keep your opponents hands low. Don't hit high. When on the inside, attack higher. If your opponent is hitting high while you're on the inside, you'll have the advantage if you just hit high at the same time.

Over all, don't think about it too much. Just concentrate on the core principles of staying square, covering your center, and chasing your opponent's center, and don't think about trying to pull off this or that technique. Just let it come out naturally as you would in chisau. At least, in my limited experience, that's what I've found helps me.


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## mook jong man (Feb 10, 2013)

kaimynas said:


> hello,
> 
> I'm 25 old and I training WC for about 5 months. After I gained first level - I''ve been transferred to not-rookies-group.
> In some workout days after base training we have a slow-sparring with MMA gloves. I forgot to mention that these 5months is first Martial Arts training months in my life, before this i was doing bodybuilding for about 3 years.. So back to sparring topic. At sparring I'm feeling little disorganized, i feel that my reaction is very slow. I'm always trying to protect my nose - and it feels that the more I protect - the more i'm getting hit into the nose Also for me it's hard to protect from simple straight punches... which i feel should be easiest hits to block... i can't overcome myself to hit my sparring partner into his head instead his stomach... applying the techniques we learning into the sparring situation is also hard as hell..
> ...



After further thought on your problem.
If you are tending to get hit a lot with the straight punches , it might be possible that your guard is too low.

What works for me is to have my guard in line with the tip of my nose , from that position I can easily intercept anything coming for my face , but still deal with anything coming in low.
You have to have a sense that you can generate force from the height of your guard position and also have maximum resistance against any force exerted by your opponent.

Now you don't want to have your guard up too high either , because you open yourself up to having both your arms seized and pushed over your head and you will be off balanced or vulnerable to low strikes and low grappling attacks.

Another common beginner problem related to the guard height issue is _*not returning to guard*_ after you complete your technique.
Students will successfully defend against one strike , but because they have not immediately returned to their guard , their hands will be out of position to deal with the next strike.

Every time after you do something go back to your _*guard position*_ , unless you are pressing your attack with your continuous punching , and then go back to your guard position.
Make sure it is _*always going back to the correct position too*_ , a lot of times students will start off with their guard at the correct height and then after a few exchanges they will get flustered , and without realising the guard will be lowered down again.

These sort of errors are quite common in beginners , and really they should be picked up by your instructor.


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## cwk (Feb 10, 2013)

mook jong man said:


> Another common beginner problem related to the guard height issue is _*not returning to guard*_ after you complete your technique.
> Students will successfully defend against one strike , but because they have not immediately returned to their guard , their hands will be out of position to deal with the next strike.
> 
> Every time after you do something go back to your _*guard position*_ , unless you are pressing your attack with your continuous punching , and then go back to your guard position.
> ...



this is good advice.


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## kaimynas (Feb 19, 2013)

thanks all, for advice's.
also am small person ~1.75m and my sparring partners almost all are higher,, so this makes everything more complex..


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## geezer (Feb 19, 2013)

kaimynas said:


> thanks all, for advice's.
> also am small person ~1.75m and my sparring partners almost all are higher,, so this makes everything more complex..



Not complicated at all. I'm about the same size. Just remember that your centerline angles upward to connect with your taller opponents' center. Or more simply put, most of their punches will angle downward at you, so yours will have to angle upward to deflect theirs. Also they will have a reach advantage on you. So you have to close.

To start, explode forward aggressively, moving _inside_ their reach, and keep punching upwards hitting them on the chin and in the nose. Knock 'em back on their heels, and keep driving forward with upward angling chain punches till they slam back into the wall. It won't work on your seniors, but it should take care of any other beginners you spar with. Good luck!


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## kaimynas (Mar 11, 2013)

hey guys..

what is the best technique to defend/attack when your opponent does classic chain punching against you?


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## Cyriacus (Mar 11, 2013)

Pro tip: You cant win on pure defense. (By which i mean blocking and evasion)
You have to actually do something. Now i know you probably already know that in theory, but theres sometimes a void between theory and practice.


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## mook jong man (Mar 11, 2013)

kaimynas said:


> hey guys..
> 
> what is the best technique to defend/attack when your opponent does classic chain punching against you?



There are a few things you can use , but in our lineage we tend to use Tan/Bong , that is simply focusing forward and rapidly rotating from Tan to Bong and back again.
Make sure you use Bong on the same side punch and Tan on the back of his wrist on his other arm.

It redirects the chain punches , and if you press forward with your stance you will eventually cramp up their punching and collapse their angles , at that point you can punch over the top with your back hand as your front hand does a Tan.

You will see the technique done quite a lot in this video.

[video=youtube_share;iPuzQMrXZ98]http://youtu.be/iPuzQMrXZ98[/video]


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## WingChunIan (Mar 12, 2013)

kaimynas said:


> hey guys..
> 
> what is the best technique to defend/attack when your opponent does classic chain punching against you?


move your feet - simple.
Either turn / shift or step off the line on an angle at the same time attacking your opponent's centre


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## jeff_hasbrouck (Mar 12, 2013)

kaimynas said:


> hey guys..
> 
> what is the best technique to defend/attack when your opponent does classic chain punching against you?



Get offline, create an angle, and attack.


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## jeff_hasbrouck (Mar 12, 2013)

Ok, I said get offline, create an angle and attack. But you can also occupy the center line and "steal it", or you can go from the outside in and "cut" his punches out. It's not very easy to do for a beginner, but hell, we don't have nothin but time, so why not try it


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## geezer (Mar 12, 2013)

jeff_hasbrouck said:


> Ok, I said get offline, create an angle and attack. But you can also occupy the center line and "steal it", or you can go from the outside in and "cut" his punches out. It's not very easy to do for a beginner, but hell, we don't have nothin but time, so why not try it



It's kinda like the old axiom, "No two objects can occupy the same space at the same time". If you occupy the centerline, your opponent can't. When your opponent charges in with chain punches, his momentum and size (I believe you said that you were of smaller stature than many of your classmates) will make it hard to oppose him straight on. So use a bit of a sidestep and counter deflecting punch against punch, wedging in to take control of his center. Get your opponent turned and keep up the forward pressure.

Here is a drill I found on Youtube that is a little simpler than the one _Mook_ showed back in post 17. In this version, they just use punch to punch to deflect oncoming chain punches. Notice that they practice both inside and outside gates, and it can be practiced on the same side (right vs. left) or across (right vs. right) It can be done slowly, to concentrate on position and not clashing arms or sped up, like working a speed bag. With good forward pressure, it can be a very aggressive way to counter. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERsLaXqGHPI&list=PL3C8A19CEBF5087AC

Incidentally, these guys are not from the organization I belong to, but we do have  a common lineage. In my group, we typically begin training with a _pak-punch_ or _jut-punch_ pattern, and later go to this punch to punch pattern since there can be a tendency to use too much force rather than deflection when you cross punches. Still, I like these clips. By keeping the speed down in these demos, I think these guys do a good job of showing that it's not a contest of strength.


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## Nabakatsu (Mar 13, 2013)

Ebmas lat sau is so drastically different to that.. I have a hard time watching it really.. 
The only way I know how to deflect an indoor punch from the outside with a punch, is by maintaining a low elbow, I get that they are far away.. but the form of the punches just looks mediocre to me..
I detect some slight downward movement.. it took so long for them to establish shin connection, and they aren't even protecting their groins with their fighting stances.. ugh.. so many things I want to nitpick. I'm sorry to be so negative towards an offshoot of WT.. but yeah.. those dudes have been at it way longer than me.. maybe I'm just missing something..


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## Cyriacus (Mar 13, 2013)

Nabakatsu said:


> Ebmas lat sau is so drastically different to that.. I have a hard time watching it really..
> The only way I know how to deflect an indoor punch from the outside with a punch, is by maintaining a low elbow, I get that they are far away.. but the form of the punches just looks mediocre to me..
> I detect some slight downward movement.. it took so long for them to establish shin connection, and they aren't even protecting their groins with their fighting stances.. ugh.. so many things I want to nitpick. I'm sorry to be so negative towards an offshoot of WT.. but yeah.. those dudes have been at it way longer than me.. maybe I'm just missing something..



I cant speak for WC, but when things get changed for whatever reason, things change. Just remember that youre comparing to a staple youre familiar with


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## yak sao (Mar 13, 2013)

Nabakatsu said:


> Ebmas lat sau is so drastically different to that.. I have a hard time watching it really..
> The only way I know how to deflect an indoor punch from the outside with a punch, is by maintaining a low elbow, I get that they are far away.. but the form of the punches just looks mediocre to me..
> I detect some slight downward movement.. it took so long for them to establish shin connection, and they aren't even protecting their groins with their fighting stances.. ugh.. so many things I want to nitpick. I'm sorry to be so negative towards an offshoot of WT.. but yeah.. those dudes have been at it way longer than me.. maybe I'm just missing something..



Yannis is a former student of Emin. I met him at one of the fighter camps back in '98. He was very good then and I'm sure his skill has done nothing but increase.
Emin has had him on some of his featured videos back in the day and he was a featured bad guy in one  or two of Emin's magazine articles
I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt here and assuming that he is showing the lat sao from a beginner's perspective. Since it's level one, as he calls it, he is probably keeping it long range and less combative, getting the students in the ballpark.


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## Nabakatsu (Mar 13, 2013)

Yeah, I knew he was once a top guy of Emin's. I guess when I was originally taught Lat sau, We had foot connection, for maybe 2-3 months, and than shin connection. I realize my opinion is biased, and much more so since it's one of the closest things to what I do myself... it just looks like really bad form to me all around.. I think he's just trying to differentiate himself from what EBMAS looks like, and.. it was a bad idea.. in my clearly and sadly.. not so humble opinion.


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## geezer (Mar 13, 2013)

_Nabakatsu_, I agree with _Yak_. I think what you were objecting to is primarily a distance thing. When you move in closer your "punch to punch" deflection takes on different characteristics ...more of the low elbow you mentioned. Same for the shin to shin vs. foot to foot contact. I'm former WT but *not* EBMAS, so I start out with a jut or pak and punch, at the foot-contact range. And in truth, I personally don't work the shin contact as much because of my knee and ankle injuries. For me, I'd be risking more than I'd gain by working knee locks, and the shin to shin position messes with my bad ankle and negatively affects my structure.

You take what you've got and adapt it to the situation. Which brings us back to the OP. Does it have to look a certain way, or is it better to find what works for your body in a given situation?


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## Nabakatsu (Mar 13, 2013)

Yeah.. I think you need to be structurally sound for your WT to work and thus be WT. I know I'm a novice compared to you guys, and Yannis, I'm sure I wouldn't stand a chance at exploiting what I see as bad structure. But it really looks sloppy to me. 
I guess I've never even played in that distance.. it just seems so unsafe.. chain punching from Iras.. what's to stop a kick to the balls.. or those goofy steps to make connection, and than still, not even lining it up so your groin is covered.. I don't know why you wouldn't just start training the right way first.. or at least the way I deem right. I know if I did some of those things, my classmates and instructor would eat me for lunch..  It's interesting to finally be the biased one. Usually I'm on the outside of all the drama. Anyways, I mean no disrespect, and I'm sorry if it comes off that way, perhaps we should just agree to disagree, but I'm more than interested in hearing everyone's opinions, maybe I can learn something yet! 
As far as the original idea behind the thread goes.. WT is WT if the principals/concepts are applied, and the structure is functional.


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## Nabakatsu (Mar 13, 2013)

Of course, you have to adapt the art to yourself, and your body type, and whatever physical constraints you may or may not have. I'd love to see how you have adapted your wt. I am still not quite at that place, but it's so interesting to see how people develop!


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## Nabakatsu (Mar 13, 2013)

Of course WT in the end starts doing all sorts of crazy things, incorporating some formlessness, from what little I have seen.
I don't understand why he is doing what he is doing.. if your heels are touching on the outside, you still can't reach each others torso or face with punches.. and the lack of groin coverage makes me think their adduction must be lacking if even there.. meh.. lol.. I'll just stop, put me in my place though.. I want to learn!


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## yak sao (Mar 13, 2013)

Nabakatsu said:


> Of course WT in the end starts doing all sorts of crazy things, incorporating some formlessness, from what little I have seen.
> I don't understand why he is doing what he is doing.. if your heels are touching on the outside, you still can't reach each others torso or face with punches.. and the lack of groin coverage makes me think their adduction must be lacking if even there.. meh.. lol.. I'll just stop, put me in my place though.. I want to learn!



I really do hear what you're saying. and I don't dispute it overall, but take what he is doing in context to who it is meant for.
A begiinner is for the most part, stiill trying to figure out left hand from right hand. They are squeamish much of the time about contact, both giving and receiving.
I really think this is a dumbed down drill to have them working hands only , not having to worry about their feet, and doing so from a safe distance so they're not hitting each other and are able to learn the gist of it from a non threatening range.
Now, if they're still in this mode after a week or two, then we have issues.


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## jeff_hasbrouck (Mar 13, 2013)

geezer said:


> It's kinda like the old axiom, "No two objects can occupy the same space at the same time". If you occupy the centerline, your opponent can't. When your opponent charges in with chain punches, his momentum and size (I believe you said that you were of smaller stature than many of your classmates) will make it hard to oppose him straight on. So use a bit of a sidestep and counter deflecting punch against punch, wedging in to take control of his center. Get your opponent turned and keep up the forward pressure.
> .



No sir, I am one of the biggest (fat and tall wise) dudes in the class. But the fact still remains, if you occupy the center; no matter how big your opponent is, he/she will have an un-advantageous position.

Let me break it down for ya'll.

I'm 5'11 3/4, (and was 240lbs at the time when I was 18) my reach is that of a person whom is 5'6, so I make up for it by jealously guarding the center and stealing space form other indivuduals. My big problem with WT people is that they think too much about the "correct position" and not enough about "making effective movements"... 

This was in the point I made in Geezer's post of "Is this Wing Chun". My sifu was an ***, to be sure. But he did know how to really make wing tsun applicable in real life situations. You need to be dynamic. I've actually had many of occasion to try out my WT in real life. At the bars and clubs. The only time I didn't win ( and it was only a draw), was when I was sparring someone who was under 17 and I pulled my punches and did NOT occupy the center. 

I'm telling ya'll, the center is the key.

My best friends daughter (who is 16) can send me reeling on my toes, and she only wieghs about 100-120lbs... I should make a video with her in it and just show how she crowds the center. I've been gone off and on from my birthplace (washington state) since she was 9. But I taught her how to guard the centerline, and she is the only one who can actually make me work for it. I mean god bless it Alecia, give your uncle Guff a break, but she just keeps going.

It makes me believe that anyone (since I outweigh her by easily 100lbs) that if you occupy the center, you at least stand a fighting chance. I'm not saying that you will be victorious in all your endeavors, but that is how I personally win. No matter if the opponent is smaller or bigger. Just like emin in that video I had of him and Obasi... occupy the center and you will be in control of the engagement.

Sorry for the long reply; I really enjoy this thread and everybodies differing viewpoints on how the "basic reactions" should be trained.


Again a call back to Geezer's post; That feller from england had it right; it's better to punch than to deflect!


All the best my good sirs,


Jeff


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## jeff_hasbrouck (Mar 13, 2013)

geezer said:


> It's kinda like the old axiom, "No two objects can occupy the same space at the same time". If you occupy the centerline, your opponent can't. When your opponent charges in with chain punches, his momentum and size (I believe you said that you were of smaller stature than many of your classmates) will make it hard to oppose him straight on. So use a bit of a sidestep and counter deflecting punch against punch, wedging in to take control of his center. Get your opponent turned and keep up the forward pressure.
> 
> Here is a drill I found on Youtube that is a little simpler than the one _Mook_ showed back in post 17. In this version, they just use punch to punch to deflect oncoming chain punches. Notice that they practice both inside and outside gates, and it can be practiced on the same side (right vs. left) or across (right vs. right) It can be done slowly, to concentrate on position and not clashing arms or sped up, like working a speed bag. With good forward pressure, it can be a very aggressive way to counter.
> 
> ...



Geezer, this is just for you;

But don't you think the jut-da is just a little over-used in LTWT? I find that utilizing a puch (or chainpunching) is much more effective than using a deflective technique. This is of course assuming you have at least experienced the Dummy chi-sau the way LT does it.

My dai-si-hing introduced me and showed me all the dummy chi-sau (with chi-gerk) and it seems after 7th section (and really after 3rd sectioon) that punching is much more to the point than deflecting.

In 4th section (LT chi-sau) we learn the double punches and thats when my sifu really emphasized utilizing cutting punches. And the 5th, 6th and 7th section all did that. 

Then when my si-hing taught me dummy chi-sau, same thing... Matter of fact 1st section dummy chi-sau; when your opponent tries the "grab pull" and you utilize the low pull with the pak-da (but underneath and then go above the arms) is a perfect example of not utilizing the "cover, cover, cover, punch" tactic. What do you think? Is it better to strike as fast (and first) as you can, or is the main idea (in your mindset) defense, and then offense?

I can't emphasize how much I would like to pic your brain for a day... or rather a few weeks! Geez, you seem like you hold so much latent knowledge that it's just second nature for you. Grrrr. I'm fixing to move back to texas and train with my dai-si-hing and my si-dai (who run a school together)... Because they are so aweomse.

Actually if you get the chance, check it out geezer! alamocitywingchun(maybe tsun?).com Sifu Glenn Tillman (my dai-si-hing) is probably the nicest guy you'll ever meet, and he is totally a bad-*** when it comes down to it. And Sifu Ramfis (Ram) De Pena (Ya, he is my si-dai, but he is much MUCH better than me. The guy has so much natural skill and is so dedicated to the art; I can't think of a high enough praise for his hardwork and time spent in the saddle). 

But check them out, and if you ever get the chance definately roll with them; Aside from being the most gentlemenly people you have EVER met, they are most certainly qualified and very well practiced WT instructors!

All the best Geez!

Jeff


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## Ediaan (Mar 14, 2013)

I agree with jeff_hasbrouck, if you occupy the center you will have the upper hand.
Also, in WT / WC a chain punch can be deflected by also chain punching in a worst case scenario, but stepping fowards and to the side is key. It would not be beneficial to step backwards because you would not be moving the target (your face, in other words), so moving forward, and a bit to the side ( but not too much ) would already give you the advantage.


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## Harm0nys0ul (Mar 16, 2013)

For sparing remember the basics focus on what you know. Dont worry about what the person your sparing is doing, dont think about your next move what if this what if that how should I respond if this.  None of that matters in a real fight anyway.  You want to focus on staying calm, focus on breathing.  A lot of sparing I see is people trying to throw this move or that move and so forth, a lot of them forgot the basics and footwork as well.  As long as you have a good base and are calm youll be fine.
I also agree with jeff_hasbrouc Center is the key


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## geezer (Mar 16, 2013)

jeff_hasbrouck said:


> ...don't you think the jut-da is just a little over-used in LTWT? I find that utilizing a puch (or chainpunching) is much more effective than using a deflective technique. ...Is it better to strike as fast (and first)...



er ...yes!  :bangahead:

Rhetorical questions?


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## kaimynas (Mar 30, 2013)

thanks again for very valuable advices.. the more i train - and reading this topic again, the more I understand 
also i forgot to ask you about basic stance when sparring. By the standards it should be "classical WT" with both legs in one line (like doing siu nim tau) or or other postion when one leg is moved forward... (don't know the names of stances...) thanks


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## mook jong man (Mar 30, 2013)

kaimynas said:


> thanks again for very valuable advices.. the more i train - and reading this topic again, the more I understand
> also i forgot to ask you about basic stance when sparring. By the standards it should be "classical WT" with both legs in one line (like doing siu nim tau) or or other postion when one leg is moved forward... (don't know the names of stances...) thanks



Now your opening up a can of worms.
It depends on your lineage , some will have one leg forward , others like mine will square up the stance as in the yckym.


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## StormShadow (Mar 30, 2013)

kaimynas said:


> hello,
> 
> I'm 25 old and I training WC for about 5 months. After I gained first level - I''ve been transferred to not-rookies-group.
> In some workout days after base training we have a slow-sparring with MMA gloves. I forgot to mention that these 5months is first Martial Arts training months in my life, before this i was doing bodybuilding for about 3 years.. So back to sparring topic. At sparring I'm feeling little disorganized, i feel that my reaction is very slow. I'm always trying to protect my nose - and it feels that the more I protect - the more i'm getting hit into the nose Also for me it's hard to protect from simple straight punches... which i feel should be easiest hits to block... i can't overcome myself to hit my sparring partner into his head instead his stomach... applying the techniques we learning into the sparring situation is also hard as hell..
> ...



Sounds like you make be trying to think too much instead of allowing to flow out of you naturally. I suspect with more time sparring, these things will no longer be an issue for you.  It will be second nature soon to utilize your teachings.


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## kaimynas (Mar 31, 2013)

thanks for reply..
but what is the rule of stance when you standing with one leg forward. If i like hitting with right hand so my right leg with right hand should always be in front?


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## mook jong man (Mar 31, 2013)

kaimynas said:


> thanks for reply.. but what is the rule of stance when you standing with one leg forward. If i like hitting with right hand so my right leg with right hand should always be in front?



    To a large degree what hand you hit with will be decided by your opponent , if he decides to initiate the attack.

    As I said we don't use that type of stance , but if it were me , since I am right handed that would be my front guarding hand and I would have my right leg forward.

 Right arm forward , and left leg forward doesn't make much biomechanical sense to me .
But to be certain you should probably check with one of the WT guys like Geezer , Yak Sao etc.


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## Danny T (Apr 1, 2013)

We work the squared off neutral stance, Rt lead, Left lead, and with either arm forward.
Fighting is never ideal and if you spar enough you will find that the most comfortable stance and arm position happens only when you are disengaged or when drilling. Sparring changes it all and ideal seldom happens. Learn to be comfortable in all positions keeping forward pressure through the central line.


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## geezer (Apr 1, 2013)

mook jong man said:


> To a large degree *what hand you hit with will be decided by your opponent* , if he decides to initiate the attack.
> 
> As I said we don't use that type of stance , but if it were me , since I am right handed that would be my front guarding hand and I would have my right leg forward.
> 
> ...



What_ Mook_ said in the first sentence above. When pursuing and pressing-in on an opponent I favor a stance with one foot forward. Most people tend to favor leading with the same foot and hand. In Escrima, we call this "power-side forward" and it makes perfect sense with a weapons-based art. It equally makes sense for a JKD-type approach where your body is turned to the side.

 In Wing Chun by contrast, your body is square to your opponent, with your centerline pointing right at his center and both arms can reach the same targets with ease. This means that you should be ambidextrous and comfortable leading with either arm, regardless of which foot is forward.

That said, everybody has a favorite position. Because of my ankle and leg problems, I usually step forward with my left foot and have a left _man-sau_ lead.  "Biomechanically" as mook put it, this allows me to easily link my right (rear-hand) punch with my right hip as I step forward, and that way I can focus my whole body into my punch. Still, IMO it's very important to work both sides, as well as fighting out of YGKYM. After all, if it's true that your opponent's attacks dictate your response, you have to be able to respond freely to either side, ...or neither, right?


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## kaimynas (Apr 3, 2013)

after a little youtubing of boxing and wingchun sparring videos, i saw that right handed boxing people in sparring stance uses right hand and right leg in rear ( as i assume to make a room for hit ), but in some wing chun videos when right handed people sparring they move with right hand (and leg) in front..


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## StormShadow (Apr 3, 2013)

jeff_hasbrouck said:


> No sir, I am one of the biggest (fat and tall wise) dudes in the class. But the fact still remains, if you occupy the center; no matter how big your opponent is, he/she will have an un-advantageous position.
> 
> Let me break it down for ya'll.
> 
> ...




Do you have any video examples of this? I'm interested in what you are conveying.


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## kaimynas (Apr 3, 2013)

another newbie question: how to improve reaction?


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## mook jong man (Apr 3, 2013)

kaimynas said:


> another newbie question: how to improve reaction?



Old timer answer: Train


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## kaimynas (Apr 4, 2013)

thanks all for support, currently i don't have any questions... now my objection is to learn technique. And objection in sparring training is to give more attention to reaction improvement and to be able to block (first react to) my opponent simple straight punches..


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## StormShadow (Apr 4, 2013)

I have a question Wing Chun Family, how soon should you begin sparing outside of the kwoon with a fellow practitioner?


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## yak sao (Apr 4, 2013)

StormShadow said:


> I have a question Wing Chun Family, how soon should you begin sparing outside of the kwoon with a fellow practitioner?



Some good stuff on this thread from a while back.
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php/93276-Sparring-with-Wing-Chun


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## StormShadow (Apr 4, 2013)

Thanks good info on situational sparing.  Viewing sparing vids, you see that alot, wing chun artists stand, wait for guy to kick, he kicks, hits wing chun guy with a spinning back fist too, wing chun guy then rushes in, hits guy with a barrage of chain punches, ref steps in and it repeats.  I view these vids and wonder, where is the footwork, where are the kicks being used to deflect and then attack neutralizing the opponents next attack before he begins?  I have seen a video of a guy effectively utilizing these techniques against a kick boxer.  It looks like light sparing, but the techniques he used to block/deflect the attackers kick then immediately take away his balance seemed pretty well done in my eyes.  In practice, you also see alot of guys giving up their centerline and look like their reverting to some form of mma with their punching form.


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## martial sparrer (Apr 4, 2013)

in my opinion you have to get back in there and work at it.  one thing that can work is when yu have a sparring partner, do 3-5 minutes where all you do is parry and block, then switch and you be offensive for a time.  also, if you want to spar and apply technique you have to get over your fear of getting hit....make peace with it, and make sure you get hit.....because if you can overcome your fear of being hit.....you will be more relaxed, you can get in deeper, land shots, and also have better defense.  hit yourself if there is no one else to hit you!


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## martial sparrer (Apr 4, 2013)

for chain punching.....I always tell my sparring partner to knee me to get me off him or uppercut.....but again he never does and he ends up bent over hugging himself.....which is bad....but yeah also move left or right and punch him!


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## mook jong man (Apr 5, 2013)

martial sparrer said:


> for chain punching.....I always tell my sparring partner to knee me to get me off him or uppercut.....but again he never does and he ends up bent over hugging himself.....which is bad....but yeah also move left or right and punch him!



If you can perform a knee strike while someone is chain punching you , I would advocate they are not pressing forward and doing it properly.
There is also the small matter of chain punching having a slightly longer range than a knee strike , so in other words they can reach you with the punching , but you can't reach them with the knee.


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## mook jong man (Apr 5, 2013)

StormShadow said:


> I have a question Wing Chun Family, how soon should you begin sparing outside of the kwoon with a fellow practitioner?



What type of sparring are you talking about ? , Chi Sau sparring , light hand sparring from the guard ( your typical type of Wing Chun attacks) 
Or do you mean random arms and random legs Wing Chun versus ( your non Wing Chun types of attacks , round house punch , round house kick etc) ?

If it's the Wing chun type you can start almost immediately with light hand sparring from the guard  once you know Pak Sau and punch.

If it's the latter type of sparring  then you should probably be competent at random four corner deflection first , and for the leg attacks be able to jam front kicks , side kicks and use leg raising deflection for circular type kicking attacks.

But having said that , you can take any counter you have learned and spar with it , it will just be in isolation that's all , and that is perfectly fine , it depends on your competency level.
One that I often give beginners to do is one armed sparring , they find it easy because they only have to work on retaining the shapes and focusing with the one arm.
Do it starting from contact range , and from further out.
Work it from all the permutations , same side arm to same side arm , opposite arm to opposite arm.
Keep driving through with forward force at all times , keep the wrist on the centerline.


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## Argus (Apr 8, 2013)

martial sparrer said:


> in my opinion you have to get back in there and work at it.  one thing that can work is when yu have a sparring partner, do 3-5 minutes where all you do is parry and block, then switch and you be offensive for a time.  also, if you want to spar and apply technique you have to get over your fear of getting hit....make peace with it, and make sure you get hit.....because if you can overcome your fear of being hit.....you will be more relaxed, you can get in deeper, land shots, and also have better defense.  hit yourself if there is no one else to hit you!



I think that is very bad thinking. If all you're doing is "blocking", you're just learning to chase hands. You should be attacking and chasing center with every technique, and every response, when possible. When someone throws a punch at you, throw a better punch back. This is why we're not trying to "block" things in Wing Chun. We're trying to deflect them, and follow through with a counter attack in one motion.


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