# Origin of the Ninja uniform



## PhotonGuy (Jan 16, 2015)

I was at a martial arts center that taught Ninjutsu along with some other martial arts and what one of the instructors said about the classical all black Ninja uniform is that it originated from Japanese stage workers. When they would put on performances on Japanese stages they would have people who would help with some of the stuff that had to be done on stage but that the audience was not supposed to see them and that's why they wore the all black uniforms and that its basically the same way with the Ninja, people aren't supposed to see them. Basically Ninja are supposed to blend in and be unnoticed and while the classical all black uniform might not always be the best way to do that, that's where it originated from, from stage workers. At least that's what the instructor claimed that that's where the uniforms came from.


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## Dirty Dog (Jan 16, 2015)

Does this sound like a reasonable explanation to you?


Sent from an old fashioned 300 baud acoustic modem by whistling into the handset. Really.


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## Tony Dismukes (Jan 16, 2015)

To clarify - this is the origin of the ninja uniform _as seen in TV and movies_. It's not something that was worn historically.


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## Blindside (Jan 16, 2015)

So the all black dogi and tabi shoes look that seems to be popular in ninjutsu circles is ahistorical?  Who started it?


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## jks9199 (Jan 16, 2015)

I've seen that explanation before.  Makes a little bit of sense, but I kind of figure that the all black, masked costume was something that wasn't heavily used.  A lot of that stuff would be kind of obvious if you were found with it, solid black sucks for blending in generally, and disguise (as soldiers, monks, warriors, shopkeepers, farmers, etc) would probably have been more useful.  

I kind of suspect with little other than the tie to the Noh theater stagehand costume is that, somewhere along the way, someone went looking for a costume to use for ninja, and seized on one that carried an underlying "this person isn't visible/is hidden" message.


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## PhotonGuy (Jan 16, 2015)

jks9199 said:


> I've seen that explanation before.  Makes a little bit of sense, but I kind of figure that the all black, masked costume was something that wasn't heavily used.  A lot of that stuff would be kind of obvious if you were found with it, solid black sucks for blending in generally, and disguise (as soldiers, monks, warriors, shopkeepers, farmers, etc) would probably have been more useful.
> 
> I kind of suspect with little other than the tie to the Noh theater stagehand costume is that, somewhere along the way, someone went looking for a costume to use for ninja, and seized on one that carried an underlying "this person isn't visible/is hidden" message.



Well that's what the instructor said, that they classical black ninja uniform when they trained and that it is what's portrayed in movies but in reality ninja would dress and act however they could in order to blend in and be unnoticed. That of course would depend on the environment and the situation. And yes, supposedly solid black isn't good for blending in, even in dark conditions as it tends to leave a silhouette. Supposedly grey or dark blue is better.


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## drop bear (Jan 16, 2015)

jks9199 said:


> I've seen that explanation before.  Makes a little bit of sense, but I kind of figure that the all black, masked costume was something that wasn't heavily used.  A lot of that stuff would be kind of obvious if you were found with it, solid black sucks for blending in generally, and disguise (as soldiers, monks, warriors, shopkeepers, farmers, etc) would probably have been more useful.
> 
> I kind of suspect with little other than the tie to the Noh theater stagehand costume is that, somewhere along the way, someone went looking for a costume to use for ninja, and seized on one that carried an underlying "this person isn't visible/is hidden" message.



Did they do ninja in stage? When did it become a popular culture thing?


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## Chris Parker (Jan 17, 2015)

PhotonGuy said:


> I was at a martial arts center that taught Ninjutsu along with some other martial arts and what one of the instructors said about the classical all black Ninja uniform is that it originated from Japanese stage workers. When they would put on performances on Japanese stages they would have people who would help with some of the stuff that had to be done on stage but that the audience was not supposed to see them and that's why they wore the all black uniforms and that its basically the same way with the Ninja, people aren't supposed to see them. Basically Ninja are supposed to blend in and be unnoticed and while the classical all black uniform might not always be the best way to do that, that's where it originated from, from stage workers. At least that's what the instructor claimed that that's where the uniforms came from.



Okay, there's a lot of things to look at here… firstly, what is meant by "ninja"? Next, what is meant by "ninjutsu"? How are you defining it as a martial art?

What I'm getting at is, in the main, the idea of "ninja" wasn't what most think of… largely, it was a job description, more than anything else, and was more spy than soldier (there were exceptions, particular groups often classed as ruppa, rappa, suppa, and so on, who had particular uses), and the most historically valid use of the term "ninjutsu" refers to a skills set relating to espionage, information gathering and so on… not combative skills. The idea of a set of combative skills (martial techniques) being what is meant by the term "ninjutsu" is really a fairly modern take on things.

That said, yeah, the idea of there being a "ninja uniform" is largely a product of popular culture's creation, rather than historical fact. One such source for the inspiration of the image of the "classical" shinobi shozoku (the hood, the gauntlets, the tied-in hems on the hakama etc) is the set-dressers of Noh and Kabuki theatres (as well as the puppeteers for traditional puppet shows), which would be deemed "invisible" by the audience. That, however, is not the entire story. 

There are a number of ukiyo-e (woodblock prints) from the Edo period that show what we would easily recognise as a "ninja outfit" in use… commonly to show that a particular character was a thief, or at least, acting like one. In this regard, it's similar enough to the popular Western movie habit of showing thieves in balaclavas, black skivvies, and so on… it doesn't mean that that's what they wear, but it's a popular enough image to pervade the zeitgeist. Then again, an equal number identified "ninja" characters without such costumes… there are images of "ninja" characters from popular Noh dramas and Kabuki plays which see them dressed pretty much like everyone else.



Tony Dismukes said:


> To clarify - this is the origin of the ninja uniform _as seen in TV and movies_. It's not something that was worn historically.



Yep.



Blindside said:


> So the all black dogi and tabi shoes look that seems to be popular in ninjutsu circles is ahistorical?  Who started it?



Of course it is, ha!

Who started it? Well, tabi have been standard footwear for Japan for centuries… and many traditional Japanese arts continue to train in them (I wear them for a range of things I train in, with them being prescribed for Kyudo, for example). The modern jika-tabi (outdoor versions, with rubber soles), are really common workman's boots, providing a fairly comfortable, light footwear with excellent grip. While traditional arts (being trained indoors on tatami-mat dojo) don't utilise them, they became relatively popular in the Bujinkan in the early 80's, mostly with Western practitioners. Personally, I feel that this was more to do with a connection to the actual footwear worn in Japan (naka-tabi, the regular, soft soled version), combined with the fact that much of the early training was done at outdoor seminars, and that's what Hayes chose to wear at those events. These days, indoor tabi are far more common in ninjutsu circles.

As for the black uniforms, that's largely down to Hatsumi. When training under Takamatsu, they wore a white do-gi, just like many other arts… it was only later that Hatsumi changed it to a black one. Whether to better fit the popular image, or to reduce the staining on the uniforms in outdoor training, you'd have to ask him…



PhotonGuy said:


> Well that's what the instructor said, that they classical black ninja uniform when they trained and that it is what's portrayed in movies but in reality ninja would dress and act however they could in order to blend in and be unnoticed. That of course would depend on the environment and the situation. And yes, supposedly solid black isn't good for blending in, even in dark conditions as it tends to leave a silhouette. Supposedly grey or dark blue is better.



Okay, I just want to clarify something here… you talk about the "classical black ninja uniform" being worn in training… does it include the headgear, sleeve gauntlets etc? Or is it more just a black karate-style gi? The reason I ask is that, well, if it's the former… then the person you're talking to is most likely a member of one of the fraudulent groups… no legit organisation has that piece of theatre garb as it's uniform… so I wouldn't take anything they say as definitive or correct… most of what they might get right would likely be more from reading more authentic sources, rather than anything in their own understanding. So you know… 



drop bear said:


> Did they do ninja in stage? When did it become a popular culture thing?



During the Edo period… some 300 years ago… at least…


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## Instructor (Jan 17, 2015)

While the black clothed Ninja in Tabi with he face covered is as others have said a pop culture phenomenon, I have to say it's a fun one!  When I was a kid I used to love all those old cheesy ninja movies and of course Ninja's in mazazines and comic books.  It wouldn't be uncommon for me to doodle Ninja's scaling the pages of my notes or in desperate combat in the margins of my steno pad.

I wonder, do legitimate schools embrace the pop culture look or do they keep to actual historical tradition.  I bet the pop culture version brings the kiddies in droves.


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## PhotonGuy (Jan 18, 2015)

At the Ninjutsu school I visited, they wore black uniforms but they did not have any kind of mask. They didn't have any gauntlets or any other gear and I didn't see them do any training with weapons that one day I was there. Interestingly, this was in North Carolina and the instructor said that NC has the same latitude as Japan and as such much of the same trees and vegetation grow in both places and supposedly the kinds of trees that grow in Japan had an effect on how the Ninja operated since trees were sometimes used for stealth or other operations. He said that since the same kinds of trees grow in NC since they're at the same latitude they can do some of the same stuff.


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## Chris Parker (Jan 20, 2015)

Okay… the whole thing about the latitude and trees is not entirely correct, and more importantly, completely irrelevant here. When it came to the school you saw, it was most likely a Bujinkan school, I'd suggest, yeah? The reason I asked about the masks was that they were implied in your post, and the schools who tend to use such things are not in any way genuine… so was just ensuring that that wasn't what we were talking about.


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## Deleted member 32980 (Jan 20, 2015)

Back in the day I drew a amazing drawing of a ninja at practice with his swords. Would anyone like to see?


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## jks9199 (Jan 20, 2015)

Nate the foreverman said:


> Back in the day I drew a amazing drawing of a ninja at practice with his swords. Would anyone like to see?


What the heck does that have to do with the origin of the ninja costume?


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## Deleted member 32980 (Jan 21, 2015)

jks9199 said:


> What the heck does that have to do with the origin of the ninja costume?


Oh, it has the most logical costume/outfit in it


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## Chris Parker (Jan 22, 2015)

What???


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## Cirdan (Jan 22, 2015)

Nate the foreverman said:


> Oh, it has the most logical costume/outfit in it



I think I found your drawing...


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## jks9199 (Jan 22, 2015)

Chris Parker said:


> What???


I think this a new record for your shortest post!  I guess we found one thing that the gone but not lamented Nate did excel at -- rendering Chris Parker near speechless!


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## PhotonGuy (Jan 23, 2015)

Chris Parker said:


> Okay… the whole thing about the latitude and trees is not entirely correct, and more importantly, completely irrelevant here.


Well you see here's the thing, I can be random.


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## Chris Parker (Jan 24, 2015)

jks9199 said:


> I think this a new record for your shortest post!  I guess we found one thing that the gone but not lamented Nate did excel at -- rendering Chris Parker near speechless!



Ha! For the record, there were a lot more words that were inspired, or prompted by Nate's posts (not just this thread)… just… well… there are rules as to what words can be typed here… 



PhotonGuy said:


> Well you see here's the thing, I can be random.


 
Sure… but being able to stick to a topic without obfuscating it with unnecessary tangents can be better in terms of communicating...


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## Rev Az (Feb 8, 2015)

PhotonGuy said:


> I was at a martial arts center that taught Ninjutsu along with some other martial arts and what one of the instructors said about the classical all black Ninja uniform is that it originated from Japanese stage workers. When they would put on performances on Japanese stages they would have people who would help with some of the stuff that had to be done on stage but that the audience was not supposed to see them and that's why they wore the all black uniforms and that its basically the same way with the Ninja, people aren't supposed to see them. Basically Ninja are supposed to blend in and be unnoticed and while the classical all black uniform might not always be the best way to do that, that's where it originated from, from stage workers. At least that's what the instructor claimed that that's where the uniforms
> 
> The Ninja of feudal Japan did what was necessary to blend. So yes they wore black dogi but unless you are training in a traditional school ( I know of only three in the US) most just train in either street clothes or a Karate- style Gi. Personally in my school we wore street clothes for training and the Gi for ceremonies. The only ones tables to wear the black Gi/dogi were 5th Dan and above


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## Chris Parker (Feb 9, 2015)

Rev Az said:


> The Ninja of feudal Japan did what was necessary to blend. So yes they wore black dogi but unless you are training in a traditional school ( I know of only three in the US) most just train in either street clothes or a Karate- style Gi. Personally in my school we wore street clothes for training and the Gi for ceremonies. The only ones tables to wear the black Gi/dogi were 5th Dan and above



Hmm… there's a few things in this post that have me asking a few questions… especially as you cite Hatsumi in another post. Without that, to be blunt, the way you describe things here would have me thinking you were of the "Ashida Kim" variety of ninjutsu practitioners, frankly. Let's see what we have…

No, there was no "traditional black dogi" worn… the dogi as we have it is a very modern thing, stemming largely from it's usage in judo, where it was taken from some basic wear for some Jujutsu systems… but still rather different to today's. More common training gear was hakama and uwagi. As far as black, well, that colour didn't exist for ninjutsu training until Hatsumi started employing it in the 70's… 

I would ask, however, what differentiates a "dogi" from a "Karate-style Gi"… 

The whole thing about "the only ones able to wear a black gi were 5th Dan  and above" makes no sense… and is one of the things that would raise red flags for me… 

Can I ask who you train with? Your profile states 7th Dan Ninjutsu, as well as 5th Dan Jujitsu (sic) and 4th Dan Aikido…


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## Rev Az (Feb 9, 2015)

Chris Parker said:


> Hmm… there's a few things in this post that have me asking a few questions… especially as you cite Hatsumi in another post. Without that, to be blunt, the way you describe things here would have me thinking you were of the "Ashida Kim" variety of ninjutsu practitioners, frankly. Let's see what we have…
> 
> No, there was no "traditional black dogi" worn… the dogi as we have it is a very modern thing, stemming largely from it's usage in judo, where it was taken from some basic wear for some Jujutsu systems… but still rather different to today's. More common training gear was hakama and uwagi. As far as black, well, that colour didn't exist for ninjutsu training until Hatsumi started employing it in the 70's…
> 
> ...


All I can do is repeat what I've been told. If you say that is not correct, all I can do is recheck my information. If it is incorrect I apologize


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## Chris Parker (Feb 11, 2015)

Okay… yeah, it's not correct. At all. Of course, I'm still interested in the answer to my question….


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## jaikali (Feb 12, 2016)

hi,
 i think the traditional uniform that we saw in shinobi no mono movies were first introduced by the kabuki theatre in japan .
ninjas actually like to wear dark blue clothes instead of jet black.

By the way ...what was the name of the garment that appeared beneath the black jacket of ninja that looked like crisscross woven structure  and closely resembled a fishnet or chainmail ???


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## Chris Parker (Feb 21, 2016)

Again… not even wrong… Not even wrong - RationalWiki

I heartily recommend reading the thread preceding your post.


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## Dirty Dog (Feb 21, 2016)

jaikali said:


> By the way ...what was the name of the garment that appeared beneath the black jacket of ninja that looked like crisscross woven structure  and closely resembled a fishnet or chainmail ???



You think that fishnet and maile (chainmail is a silly redundancy) look the same?


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## jaikali (Feb 21, 2016)

Question remains unanswered .......


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## Chris Parker (Feb 21, 2016)

Okay, you want some kind of answer? 

"Ninja", as depicted in popular media, never existed. There were a number of terms used for certain personages, including samurai in many cases, who engaged in acts that are identified as "ninjutsu", such as rappa, suppa, shinobi no mono, monomi, kusa, Iga no mono, nokizaru, and others… and these persons certainly didn't have any kind of "uniform" or easily identifiable clothing. After all, they were engaging in acts of spy craft, espionage, and so on… (note: not assassination… there is no evidence at all of any "ninja-related" assassination in Japan's history), so the idea of being somewhere you shouldn't be, wearing something that immediately identifies you as a member of the enemy is not exactly the smartest decision that could be taken. So you can forget about "what colours would they have worn" in the first place.

For the record, the modern wearing of black uniforms is also incredibly modern… in the 60's and early 70's, white uniforms (basically the same as Karate and Judo) were worn by the practitioners of what are claimed to be "ninja arts"… it was only in the mid-70's and onwards that Hatsumi Masaaki, founder of the Bujinkan organisation, decided to start using a black uniform… but even the uniform itself is very modern (late 19th, early 20th Century), so there's little "traditional" about it from that front.

As far as the name of the garment worn in chambara and jidai geki dramas, as well as being featured in anime and manga, eh, no idea. You could call it a shitagi (under-garment) if you want… if it's supposed to be chain, then you'd use the term "kusari"… but in any case, it's a feature of the entertainment industry, not anything historically accurate or authentic.


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## jaikali (Feb 21, 2016)

This is the answer i wanted ...thanks a lot..you could have done it before...


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## Chris Parker (Feb 21, 2016)

And you could have read the thread, and seen much of the information that shows how far off your ideas were before as well.


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