# My newest training weapon



## Runs With Fire (Jan 17, 2019)

I got a Modular Platform System Rifle for Christmas.  Call it an AR-15 if you don't know or don't care.  It's the Panther Arms DPMS sweet 16 .223 before they called it that.  From 04 or 05, right after the assault weapons ban expired.  I got it with two 30 round mags, a cheap red dot, and a nice (but awkward on a platform rifle) presision scope with a red dot.  The guy I got it from threw in 90% of a case of wolf .223 ammo.  Wolf, like in every other gun I've tried I bnbin, shoot a like crap. The best I could do was a ten shot, four inch group at 100 yards.  I just bought a few boxes of different HPBT match rounds to play with.  Hopefully I can creep in on 1 inch groups!   This thing is a blast to shoot.  Virtually no recoil, just a bit of muzzle rise.  Report isn't much either.  With a bit of practice, I hope to keep pace with my younger brother in three gun competitions.  And coyotes beware!


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## CB Jones (Jan 17, 2019)

Nice.

If you decide to change optics Vortex makes some great affordable optics for ARs.

Plus they have a no questions asked lifetime warranty


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## CB Jones (Jan 17, 2019)

Also if you are doing 3 gun you might look at the 45 degree iron sights.

Gast and Easy transition and nice for close targets


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## Runs With Fire (Jan 17, 2019)

CB Jones said:


> Nice.
> 
> If you decide to change optics Vortex makes some great affordable optics for ARs.
> 
> Plus they have a no questions asked lifetime warranty


I love Vortex!


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## Runs With Fire (Jan 17, 2019)

CB Jones said:


> Also if you are doing 3 gun you might look at the 45 degree iron sights.
> 
> Gast and Easy transition and nice for close targets


Mabey, but I'd probably try a good red dot first.


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## jobo (Jan 17, 2019)

Runs With Fire said:


> I got a Modular Platform System Rifle for Christmas.  Call it an AR-15 if you don't know or don't care.  It's the Panther Arms DPMS sweet 16 .223 before they called it that.  From 04 or 05, right after the assault weapons ban expired.  I got it with two 30 round mags, a cheap red dot, and a nice (but awkward on a platform rifle) presision scope with a red dot.  The guy I got it from threw in 90% of a case of wolf .223 ammo.  Wolf, like in every other gun I've tried I bnbin, shoot a like crap. The best I could do was a ten shot, four inch group at 100 yards.  I just bought a few boxes of different HPBT match rounds to play with.  Hopefully I can creep in on 1 inch groups!   This thing is a blast to shoot.  Virtually no recoil, just a bit of muzzle rise.  Report isn't much either.  With a bit of practice, I hope to keep pace with my younger brother in three gun competitions.  And coyotes beware!


why do you need an assualt rifle ?


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## Runs With Fire (Jan 17, 2019)

jobo said:


> why do you need an assualt rifle ?


In short, it's the best choice firearm in the industry for easy handling, ergonomics, low cost of ammo, durability, customization, low recoil, and still maintaining the ability to take small to mid sized game.


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## jobo (Jan 17, 2019)

Runs With Fire said:


> In short, it's the best choice firearm in the industry for easy handling, ergonomics, low cost of ammo, durability, customization, low recoil, and still maintaining the ability to take small to mid sized game.


right ok you need an assualt rifle to shoot rabbits !


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## Runs With Fire (Jan 17, 2019)

jobo said:


> right ok you need an assualt rifle to shoot rabbits !


Sure, but mainly squirrels, fox coyotes, hogs, and deer.


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## jobo (Jan 17, 2019)

Runs With Fire said:


> Sure, but mainly squirrels, fox coyotes, hogs, and deer.


 don't you think think having a laser sight to be a bit unsporting, which not just motor bomb the squirrels if you want to been sure not to miss


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## Dirty Dog (Jan 17, 2019)

jobo said:


> why do you need an assualt rifle ?



It's not full auto. Ergo, it's not an assault rifle.


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## Danny T (Jan 17, 2019)

jobo said:


> why do you need an assualt rifle ?


Sorry but what Runs With Fire listed is not an assault rifle. It is a rifle. It is a semi-automatic rifle. It is not automatic, or a select rate of fire weapon. It may have the look of some assault rifles but...nope it isn't an assault rifle. 
Which of the above are assault rifles? Hint: there is only one and it is not C.


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## Runs With Fire (Jan 17, 2019)

jobo said:


> don't you think think having a laser sight to be a bit unsporting, which not just motor bomb the squirrels if you want to been sure not to miss


I don't have a laser sight, I find lasers annoying.  I have a red dot which is an empty glass lens untill you switch it on, then it displays an illuminated red dot on the lens for aiming.  They are preferred for aging eyes or low light conditions, as well as very quick target acquisition.


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## jobo (Jan 17, 2019)

Danny T said:


> Sorry but what Runs With Fire listed is not an assault rifle. It is a rifle. It is a semi-automatic rifle. It is not automatic, or a select rate of fire weapon. It may have the look of some assault rifles but...nope it isn't an assault rifle.View attachment 22048
> Which of the above are assault rifles? Hint: there is only one and it is not C.


he has still bought a semi automatic assault rifle with laser sighting to shoot squirrels, I can take them out with a one pound 50 p catapult ,seems a bit over the top


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## jobo (Jan 17, 2019)

Runs With Fire said:


> I don't have a laser sight, I find lasers annoying.  I have a red dot which is an empty glass lens untill you switch it on, then it displays an illuminated red dot on the lens for aiming.  They are preferred for aging eyes or low light conditions, as well as very quick target acquisition.


quick target acquisition, ? are you afraid the squirrels may shoot back ?


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## Runs With Fire (Jan 17, 2019)

jobo said:


> quick target acquisition, ? are you afraid the squirrels may shoot back ?


Think more of a timed competitive event.  Red dots are renowned for fast, close range engagement. They are inaccurate past 50 yards.


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## Danny T (Jan 17, 2019)

jobo said:


> he has still bought a semi automatic assault rifle with laser sighting to shoot squirrels, I can take them out with a one pound 50 p catapult ,seems a bit over the top


No...he has a semi automatic rifle with a laser sight. That doesn't make it an assault rifle.


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## jobo (Jan 17, 2019)

Runs With Fire said:


> Think more of a timed competitive event.  Red dots are renowned for fast, close range engagement. They are inaccurate past 50 yards.


so are catapults, why do you need fast engagement when squirrels just sit on a branch waiting to be shot ? you could sneak up and knock them off with a broom handle


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## Dirty Dog (Jan 17, 2019)

jobo said:


> he has still bought a semi automatic assault rifle with laser sighting to shoot squirrels, I can take them out with a one pound 50 p catapult ,seems a bit over the top



It's not an assault rifle, and it doesn't have a laser sight.
But there's no need to let facts interfere with your rant.


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## jobo (Jan 17, 2019)

Dirty Dog said:


> It's not an assault rifle, and it doesn't have a laser sight.
> But there's no need to let facts interfere with your rant.


it is an assualt rifle, that it doesn't have full auto doesn't alter that fact, if you took the whole trigger mechanism off it would still be an assualt rifle,


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## Danny T (Jan 17, 2019)

jobo said:


> it is an assualt rifle, that it doesn't have full auto doesn't alter that fact, if you took the whole trigger mechanism off it would still be an assualt rifle,


Sorry sir, you are incorrect and that you continue to assert it is shows you do not know what you are talking about.
So which of the firearms I posted above is the assault rifle?


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## jobo (Jan 17, 2019)

Danny T said:


> Sorry sir, you are incorrect and that you continue to assert it is shows you do not know what you are talking about.
> So which of the firearms I posted above is the assault rifle?


how about you posted something to prove your point, that only guns with fully auto can be assualt rifles,


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## Dirty Dog (Jan 17, 2019)

jobo said:


> how about you posted something to prove your point, that only guns with fully auto can be assualt rifles,



From the good folks at Webster...


> assault rifle noun
> Definition of assault rifle
> : any of various intermediate-range, magazine-fed military rifles (such as the AK-47) that can be set for automatic or semiautomatic fire



That ignorant people have tried to expand the definition to include any sporting rifle with Scary Black Plastic Bits is irrelevant.

But, again, we know there's no reason to let facts interfere with a good rant.


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## Runs With Fire (Jan 17, 2019)

Danny T said:


> Sorry but what Runs With Fire listed is not an assault rifle. It is a rifle. It is a semi-automatic rifle. It is not automatic, or a select rate of fire weapon. It may have the look of some assault rifles but...nope it isn't an assault rifle.View attachment 22048
> Which of the above are assault rifles? Hint: there is only one and it is not C.


Am I looking at a mini 30 in standard black in the D slot?


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## Runs With Fire (Jan 17, 2019)

jobo said:


> so are catapults, why do you need fast engagement when squirrels just sit on a branch waiting to be shot ? you could sneak up and knock them off with a broom handle


I'd like to see you run a course at a 3 gun competition with good time using a catapult.  That's just goofy.  For the record, in all quality cammo and using good stalking skills all the while utalising available cover, I've never come closer than 30 yards to a squirrel.  They are tiny, fast, vigilant, and tasty.  But this post isn't about squirrels, it's about weaponry arts.  If you don't like the style, choose a different one.


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## CB Jones (Jan 17, 2019)

jobo said:


> why do you need an assualt rifle ?



The question you should be asking is why wouldn't you want one.

The AR platform is a great and fun rifle to shoot and use hunting, plinking, or in competition.


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## Runs With Fire (Jan 17, 2019)

CB Jones said:


> The question you should be asking is why wouldn't you want one.
> 
> The AR platform is a great and fun rifle to shoot and use hunting, plinking, or in competition.


It's nearly universally required for tactical long gun training here in the states.


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## jobo (Jan 17, 2019)

Dirty Dog said:


> From the good folks at Webster...
> 
> 
> That ignorant people have tried to expand the definition to include any sporting rifle with Scary Black Plastic Bits is irrelevant.
> ...


by ignorant, you mean anyone who isn't an arm's dealer or part of the NRA, ? semi auto is scary never mind be the plastic bits,


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## jobo (Jan 17, 2019)

Runs With Fire said:


> I'd like to see you run a course at a 3 gun competition with good time using a catapult.  That's just goofy.  For the record, in all quality cammo and using good stalking skills all the while utalising available cover, I've never come closer than 30 yards to a squirrel.  They are tiny, fast, vigilant, and tasty.  But this post isn't about squirrels, it's about weaponry arts.  If you don't like the style, choose a different one.


I feed them pea nuts, they come right to my feet, there's one that will take them out of my hand, why is it you kill them again, can't afford macds ?


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## Buka (Jan 17, 2019)

Oh, boy, here we go.


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## CB Jones (Jan 17, 2019)

jobo said:


> semi auto is scary never mind be the plastic bits,



Only scary because you aren't comfortable or knowledgeable about them.


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## jobo (Jan 17, 2019)

CB Jones said:


> Only scary because you aren't comfortable or knowledgeable about them.


no they are scarry because serious disturbed people seem to have little trouble obtaining them,

I think the background check, should start with the basic premise that any one who wants an assualt rifle to shoot squirrels is automatic judged unsuitable to have one.

I mean come on, that's got to set alarm be bells off


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## Runs With Fire (Jan 17, 2019)

jobo said:


> by ignorant, you mean anyone who isn't an arm's dealer or part of the NRA, ? semi auto is scary never mind be the plastic bits,


Usefull and effective.  A vast majority of civilian owned firearms are auto loading(semi automatic). Here, depending on the town, about 50 percent of residents own one.  I own four.  I like my 21st century weapons.


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## jobo (Jan 17, 2019)

Runs With Fire said:


> Usefull and effective.  A vast majority of civilian owned firearms are auto loading(semi automatic). Here, depending on the town, about 50 percent of residents own one.  I own four.  I like my 21st century weapons.


useful and effect if your trying to take out an Isis fuel depot, complete over kill( literally) for shooting squirrels , why not get a flame thrower then you wouldn't have to BBQ and hem later


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## Runs With Fire (Jan 17, 2019)

Ar style. 223 rifles are mass marketed to prairie dog, and gopher hunters.  The .223 was designed for varmints.


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## Runs With Fire (Jan 17, 2019)

I even know several hunters who consider it too small for coyotes.


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## Runs With Fire (Jan 17, 2019)

jobo said:


> useful and effect if your trying to take out an Isis fuel depot, complete over kill( literally) for shooting squirrels , why not get a flame thrower then you wouldn't have to BBQ and hem later


My preference for combat would be an AR-10 ,platform in a 6.5 creedmore.  Possibly built off of a Savage MSR 10.


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## CB Jones (Jan 17, 2019)

jobo said:


> no they are scarry because serious disturbed people seem to have little trouble obtaining them,
> 
> I think the background check, should start with the basic premise that any one who wants an assualt rifle to shoot squirrels is automatic judged unsuitable to have one.
> 
> I mean come on, that's got to set alarm be bells off



No the only bells that are set off is that you dont know much about firearms and choose to judge those that have a different view of them from yours.


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## Buka (Jan 17, 2019)

jobo said:


> no they are scarry because serious disturbed people seem to have little trouble obtaining them,



Is that over there, or over here?


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## Buka (Jan 17, 2019)

By my kitchen door. Spider spray for cane spiders, fly swatter, plinker.




 

I be a rooster shooter.


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## CB Jones (Jan 17, 2019)

Buka said:


> By my kitchen door. Spider spray for cane spiders, fly swatter, plinker.
> 
> View attachment 22049
> 
> I be a rooster shooter.



Not sure if legal in Hawaii....but Talstar P...no more spider or bugs


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## Buka (Jan 17, 2019)

Thanks for the tip, CB, I'll see if they have it here. We do have some rather nasty centipedes.


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## CB Jones (Jan 17, 2019)

Buka said:


> Thanks for the tip, CB, I'll see if they have it here. We do have some rather nasty centipedes.



You have to order it from Amazon or other sites.  It's a concentrate so it goes a long way.

I spray our house and shop every 3 months


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## Buka (Jan 17, 2019)

CB Jones said:


> You have to order it from Amazon or other sites.  It's a concentrate so it goes a long way.
> 
> I spray our house and shop every 3 months



I'll check to see if Amazon will ship it here. They don't ship a lot of stuff here for some damn reason or another.


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## Grenadier (Jan 17, 2019)

jobo said:


> right ok you need an assualt rifle to shoot rabbits !



*Admin's note:*

Ladies and gentlemen...

I'm going to ask y'all to keep things apolitical here.  This forum is for the discussion of weaponry in a technical, tactical, practical, etc., manner.  Political discussions, outside of talking about the facts of laws, isn't allowed here.  

If you want to talk about firearms in a political manner, the Forum Foundry has plenty of other options that I would encourage you to seek.


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## Gerry Seymour (Jan 17, 2019)

jobo said:


> quick target acquisition, ? are you afraid the squirrels may shoot back ?


Have you seen those suckers draw from concealment?? Scary!

Seriously, they do tend to move.


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## Gerry Seymour (Jan 17, 2019)

jobo said:


> it is an assualt rifle, that it doesn't have full auto doesn't alter that fact, if you took the whole trigger mechanism off it would still be an assualt rifle,


Without the trigger mechanism, it's an assault club.


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## drop bear (Jan 18, 2019)

Dirty Dog said:


> It's not full auto. Ergo, it's not an assault rifle.



L1A1.


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## Gerry Seymour (Jan 18, 2019)

drop bear said:


> L1A1.


??


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## Runs With Fire (Jan 18, 2019)

gpseymour said:


> ??


I know R2D2, must be a cousin.


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## CB Jones (Jan 18, 2019)

gpseymour said:


> ??



FN FAL = L1A1


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## Danny T (Jan 18, 2019)

drop bear said:


> L1A1.


Which make?
There are many different manufacturers who have taken the designation 'L1A1'.
The original L1A1 was a redesign by the Brits of the FN Fal to remove the auto function to a semi auto to prevent personnel from just spraying wildly expending and wasting ammo.


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## Dirty Dog (Jan 18, 2019)

jobo said:


> by ignorant, you mean anyone who isn't an arm's dealer or part of the NRA, ? semi auto is scary never mind be the plastic bits,



People are often scared of things they don't understand.
Semi-auto isn't the least bit scary. There are at least a dozen semi-auto handguns within 10 feet of me. Not scared in the least.


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## jobo (Jan 18, 2019)

Dirty Dog said:


> People are often scared of things they don't understand.
> Semi-auto isn't the least bit scary. There are at least a dozen semi-auto handguns within 10 feet of me. Not scared in the least.


you told me not to discuss my views on weapons, semi auto or other wise as its " political" then you quote me to provoke further discussion, is this a trap ? if being Pro gun isn't political, the hen being anti gun isn't either? can we have some clarification on what is and isn't politics

and I'm less anti gun and more pro squirrels


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## CB Jones (Jan 18, 2019)

jobo said:


> you told me not to discuss my views on weapons, semi auto or other wise as its " political" then you quote me to provoke further discussion, is this a trap ? if being Pro gun isn't political, the hen being anti gun isn't either? can we have some clarification on what is and isn't politics
> 
> and I'm less anti gun and more pro squirrels



I would guess...

Talking about the danger or safety concerns or reliability of the semi automatic action is ok.....discussion about someone's right to own or purchase a semi automatic gun is political.


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## CB Jones (Jan 18, 2019)

jobo said:


> you told me not to discuss my views on weapons, semi auto or other wise as its " political" then you quote me to provoke further discussion, is this a trap ? if being Pro gun isn't political, the hen being anti gun isn't either? can we have some clarification on what is and isn't politics
> 
> and I'm less anti gun and more pro squirrels



So what scares you about the semi-auto action as opposed to bolt action, pump action, lever action, single action revolver, and double action revolver?


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## jobo (Jan 18, 2019)

CB Jones said:


> So what scares you about the semi-auto action as opposed to bolt action, pump action, lever action, single action revolver, and double action revolver?


I not got an irrational fear of guns, only people with guns, the problem is that anyone who wants, as opposed to needs, a gun is obviously not the sort of person who should be trusted with guns, just as they don't hand nuclear bombs out to people who want one.  I've also got a deep suspicion of people who kill for fun, if you add those together someone who WANTS a ( semi auto) assualt rifle to kill squirrels, should not have a gun at all


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## CB Jones (Jan 18, 2019)

jobo said:


> I not got an irrational fear of guns, only people with guns, the problem is that anyone who wants, as opposed to needs, a gun is obviously not the sort of person who should be trusted with guns, just as they don't hand nuclear bombs out to people who want one.  I've also got a deep suspicion of people who kill for fun, if you add those together someone who WANTS a ( semi auto) assualt rifle to kill squirrels, should not have a gun at all



And see that's a political statement


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## jobo (Jan 18, 2019)

CB Jones said:


> And see that's a political statement


want to cut down the odds of somebody being cut down by some bobzo machine guning squirrels, is no more political than suggesting letting a baby play with razor blades is a bad idea,


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## CB Jones (Jan 18, 2019)

jobo said:


> want to cut down the odds of somebody being cut down by some bobzo machine guning squirrels, is no more political than suggesting letting a baby play with razor blades is a bad idea,



Yet no one has mentioned using a machine gun


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## jobo (Jan 18, 2019)

CB Jones said:


> Yet no one has mentioned using a machine gun


its a) a machine and b) a gun , that means it's a machine gun, just like the thing that washes is a washing machine


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## CB Jones (Jan 18, 2019)

jobo said:


> its a) a machine and b) a gun , that means it's a machine gun, just like the thing that washes is a washing machine



Wrong...you dont know anything about firearms you are just in this thread to troll


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## jobo (Jan 18, 2019)

CB Jones said:


> Wrong...you dont know anything about firearms you are just in this thread to troll


?? are you saying it isn't a machine?

if m back in this thread  because you quoted me and ask me a question, stop quoting me and I'll stop posting


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## CB Jones (Jan 18, 2019)

jobo said:


> ?? are you saying it isn't a machine?
> 
> if m back in this thread  because you quoted me and ask me a question, stop quoting me and I'll stop posting



That is not the definition of a machine gun.  Again you are just trolling


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## drop bear (Jan 18, 2019)

Danny T said:


> Which make?
> There are many different manufacturers who have taken the designation 'L1A1'.
> The original L1A1 was a redesign by the Brits of the FN Fal to remove the auto function to a semi auto to prevent personnel from just spraying wildly expending and wasting ammo.



By definition the semi auto. 

But I was thinking the Australian one.


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## drop bear (Jan 18, 2019)

gpseymour said:


> ??



It was Australias main battle rifle for years until we got the steyr.

Huge bullets.


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## jobo (Jan 18, 2019)

CB Jones said:


> That is not the definition of a machine gun.  Again you are just trolling


. countable noun A machine gun is a gun which fires a lot of bullets one after the other very quickly.
Machine gun definition and meaning | Collins English Dictionary


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## CB Jones (Jan 18, 2019)

drop bear said:


> It was Australias main battle rifle for years until we got the steyr.
> 
> Huge bullets.



7.62x51

I wish my agency would allow us to carry .308.  That way I could carry a AR-10 for work and hunt with it


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## drop bear (Jan 18, 2019)

CB Jones said:


> 7.62x51
> 
> I wish my agency would allow us to carry .308.  That way I could carry a AR-10 for work and hunt with it



I really only know the about three different guns I have handled. 

The 7.62 doesn't stop for anything. Go through you then go through the house behind you. And just travels forever. 

You would want to be be able to hit what you aim at.


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## CB Jones (Jan 18, 2019)

drop bear said:


> I really only know the about three different guns I have handled.
> 
> The 7.62 doesn't stop for anything. Go through you then go through the house behind you. And just travels forever.
> 
> You would want to be be able to hit what you aim at.



Over penetration is why they dont authorize them although that is the caliber our snipers use.


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## Danny T (Jan 18, 2019)

drop bear said:


> But I was thinking the Australian one.


Yep...the British version of the FN Fal. The Commonweath L1A1. And yes it's a semi-automatic.


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## lklawson (Jan 23, 2019)

jobo said:


> it is an assualt rifle, that it doesn't have full auto doesn't alter that fact, if you took the whole trigger mechanism off it would still be an assualt rifle,


So what you're saying is that despite the fact that you don't know what the parts are, what the mechanism is, how it works, what the accessories are or are not, what it is or is not capable of, or what the potential uses are, you still feel qualified to make pronouncements from your ignorance and lack of expertise on the subject.

Nice.

Your logic in this thread reminds me of those kids who jabber on about how the Katana is the ultimate sword, has 8-gazillion layers, cuts through gun barrels, and turns any goofball holding it into a combat master.

Serious question, are you trolling?


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## lklawson (Jan 23, 2019)

drop bear said:


> I really only know the about three different guns I have handled.
> 
> The 7.62 doesn't stop for anything. Go through you then go through the house behind you. And just travels forever.
> 
> You would want to be be able to hit what you aim at.


Have to use expanding point ammo.  Hardball, while less expensive, is good for target shooting but not so good for "stopping."


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## drop bear (Jan 23, 2019)

lklawson said:


> Have to use expanding point ammo.  Hardball, while less expensive, is good for target shooting but not so good for "stopping."



Yeah don't know. We just used the same bullets we killed people with.


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## lklawson (Jan 23, 2019)

drop bear said:


> Yeah don't know. We just used the same bullets we killed people with.


Full Metal Jacket (FMJ), or "hard ball," is inferior and you are forced to use it due to compliance with the Hague convention.


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## Runs With Fire (Jan 25, 2019)

lklawson said:


> Full Metal Jacket (FMJ), or "hard ball," is inferior and you are forced to use it due to compliance with the Hague convention.


And price point.


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