# Is a horse a motor vehicle?



## Big Don (Jan 17, 2011)

Sounds like a stupid question, does it?
Well, according to CA Vehicle code §670


> A  "vehicle" is a device by which any person or property may be propelled,  moved, or drawn upon a highway, excepting a device moved exclusively by  human power or used exclusively upon stationary rails or tracks.


I can ride a horse, thereby being moved upon a highway...
According to CA Vehicle code §415


> a) A "motor vehicle" is a vehicle that is self-propelled.


A horse is a horse, of course, of course, but, it seems, by these definitions, it is also legally a motor vehicle.


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## Carol (Jan 17, 2011)

I don't think a horse qualifies as a "device".  Nice try tho


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## Tez3 (Jan 17, 2011)

Big Don said:


> Sounds like a stupid question, does it?
> Well, according to CA Vehicle code §670
> I can ride a horse, thereby being moved upon a highway...
> According to CA Vehicle code §415
> A horse is a horse, of course, of course, but, it seems, by these definitions, it is also legally a motor vehicle.


 
Depends on whether there's an accident! If another car hit you, you'd rightly claim off their insurance for your damage or vice versa but hitting a horse or having one hit you causes a lot of damage and if it's not insured then it's going to cost. If by stating it's a motor vehicle it means it has to have insurance then it's a good idea. It would also give the horse and rider the same rights a car driver would have. 
In our countryside we have a lot of horses using the road, just up from where I live are quite a few racing stables where the horses are out on the road in strings of up to twenty, perhaps that qualifies as a large truck! We also still have horse and drays to cart the beer around locally as well as pony and traps etc.


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## Archangel M (Jan 17, 2011)

Some states have a section of traffic law that stipulates horse riders "shall be subject to all the duties applicable to the driver of a vehicle".


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## Big Don (Jan 17, 2011)

Carol said:


> I don't think a horse qualifies as a "device".  Nice try tho


Merriam Webster:
*Definition of DEVICE*



> 1
> *:* something devised or contrived: as    _a _ _(1)_ *:* plan, procedure, technique   _(2)_ *:* a scheme to deceive *:* stratagem, trick
> _b_ *:* something fanciful, elaborate, or intricate in design


 Horses are clearly elaborate and intricate in design and many people find them quite fanciful... 





> _c_ *:* something (as a figure of speech) in a literary work designed to achieve a particular artistic effect    _d_ _archaic_ *:* masque, spectacle    _e_ *:* a conventional stage practice or means (as a stage whisper) used to achieve a particular dramatic effect    _f_ *:* a piece of equipment or a mechanism designed to serve a special purpose or perform a special function <an electronic _device_>
> 
> 2
> *:* desire, inclination <left to my own _device__s_>
> ...


 Horses are often used in heraldry.
Therefore, a horse can be a device.


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## Carol (Jan 17, 2011)

Big Don said:


> Merriam Webster:
> *Definition of DEVICE*
> 
> Horses are clearly elaborate and intricate in design and many people find them quite fanciful...



Oh yeah? Who designed them?


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## Archangel M (Jan 17, 2011)

Carol said:


> Oh yeah? Who designed them?


 
Why God did of course.

May as well turn this into a religious thread. 

AND WE'RE OFF!!!!


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## granfire (Jan 17, 2011)

DON'T go there! 

However, in general terms horses are regarded the same as a vehicle, motorized or horse drawn. 

Ohio and Pennsylvania have a lot of experience with those...


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## Ken Morgan (Jan 17, 2011)

Fire one....

Well the horse is actually one of the best examples of how evolution really works, in great detail i might add.....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_of_the_horse

This is Mennonite country around here, horses and buggys are on the road all the time, well not quite the road, but the shoulder. Lights on the buggys at night and an orange triangle on the rear at all times....Sadly a few times a year they get into serious accidents with motor cars.


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## Tez3 (Jan 17, 2011)

A two horsepower vehicle! A beer dray in front of Mickelgate in York, still the best way to deliver beer!


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## Archangel M (Jan 17, 2011)

Ken Morgan said:


> Fire one....
> 
> Well the horse is actually one of the best examples of how evolution really works, in great detail i might add.....
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_of_the_horse
> ...


 
Evolution is a fine example of God's design process. 

Speaking of horse riding and traffic law...

http://video.foxnews.com/v/4497544/cowboys-busted-for-drunk-riding



> Cops arrest men for riding horses drunk


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## granfire (Jan 17, 2011)

Ken Morgan said:


> Fire one....
> 
> Well the horse is actually one of the best examples of how evolution really works, in great detail i might add.....
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_of_the_horse
> ...



well, a few times a year motor vehicles tangle with each other, too...a torn up car is just not as bad as a tornup horse...


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## Big Don (Jan 17, 2011)

granfire said:


> well, a few times a year motor vehicles tangle with each other, too...a torn up car is just not as bad as a tornup horse...


Not as bloody, but, often more expensive...


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## Ken Morgan (Jan 17, 2011)

granfire said:


> well, a few times a year motor vehicles tangle with each other, too...a torn up car is just not as bad as a tornup horse...


 
The mennonites tend to buy the standard bred racehorses no longer used for racing. A few years ago it wasn't uncommon to see them wandering around the barns at the tracks looking for people to sell horses. Probably still do.

Problem with buggy vs. motorcar crashes is of course, a couple of hundred pounds of wood traveling at 25kmh in no match for 2 tonnes of steel traveling at 100kmh. Rips your heart out when you hear children involved and 99% of the time its some idiot in a car not paying attention.


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## granfire (Jan 17, 2011)

Ken Morgan said:


> The mennonites tend to buy the standard bred racehorses no longer used for racing. A few years ago it wasn't uncommon to see them wandering around the barns at the tracks looking for people to sell horses. Probably still do.
> 
> Problem with buggy vs. motorcar crashes is of course, a couple of hundred pounds of wood traveling at 25kmh in no match for 2 tonnes of steel traveling at 100kmh. Rips your heart out when you hear children involved and 99% of the time its some idiot in a car not paying attention.



Yep, and they also use saddlebreds...but the STBs are cheaper and already pretty unflappable and trained to drive. ^_^


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## granfire (Jan 17, 2011)

Big Don said:


> Not as bloody, but, often more expensive...



almost always more expensive, but you don't usually need a biohasmat suit for cleanup...


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## Big Don (Jan 17, 2011)

granfire said:


> almost always more expensive, but you don't usually need a biohasmat suit for cleanup...


Fuel and oil are hazardous materials, as well as blood and offal.


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## granfire (Jan 17, 2011)

Big Don said:


> Fuel and oil are hazardous materials, as well as blood and offal.



yes, but not all of the car contains it... ^_^ 

where as the horse is all full of blood...(though some drivers are all full of Sh....car or buggy )


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## jks9199 (Jan 17, 2011)

Carol said:


> I don't think a horse qualifies as a "device".  Nice try tho


It really depends on the jurisdiction.  In Virginia, it's not -- but I know that in some states, you can actually make a DUI arrest for a person on horseback on the highway...


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## Carol (Jan 17, 2011)

jks9199 said:


> It really depends on the jurisdiction.  In Virginia, it's not -- but I know that in some states, you can actually make a DUI arrest for a person on horseback on the highway...



Now that I did not know!


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## Big Don (Jan 17, 2011)

Oh, yeah, Carol. I notice the stories online every few months, mostly in Florida and Texas. Apparently, some people ride their horses to the bar. I'd worry about it being stolen. It isn't like there is a Club for horses...


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## ballen0351 (Jan 17, 2011)

In Maryland You can get DUI on horse, bike, lawnmower, golf cart ect.

We still have unauthorized use of livestock as a law we use it alot since it applies to cars and I guess horses too since it says live stock. Its like a lesser degree of vehicle theft.


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## Blade96 (Jan 18, 2011)

I suppose, considering some people use horses and buggies to get around a horse would be kind of a vehicle but not a real vehicle since a horse is a live flesh and blood living being.


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## granfire (Jan 18, 2011)

Blade96 said:


> I suppose, considering some people use horses and buggies to get around a horse would be kind of a vehicle but not a real vehicle since a horse is a live flesh and blood living being.



The buggy they put behind it is a vehicle though.


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## Blade96 (Jan 18, 2011)

granfire said:


> The buggy they put behind it is a vehicle though.



Yup.


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## Archangel M (Jan 18, 2011)

A horse is an animal that reaches thousands of pounds. They could be a major danger if directed into traffic by an intoxicated rider.


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## granfire (Jan 18, 2011)

Archangel M said:


> A horse is an animal that reaches thousands of pounds. They could be a major danger if directed into traffic by an intoxicated rider.



Yes, Black beauty covered that I believe.

Thankfully a horse also has (arguably) a self preservation instinct. cars lack that as of now.


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## Blade96 (Jan 18, 2011)

i love black beauty


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## Ken Morgan (Jan 18, 2011)

ballen0351 said:


> We still have unauthorized use of livestock as a law we use it alot


 
I'm guessing you don't get many tourists from Scotland out your way then.....


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## ballen0351 (Jan 18, 2011)

Archangel M said:


> A horse is an animal that reaches thousands of pounds. They could be a major danger if directed into traffic by an intoxicated rider.


 I have a friend that works for another police department. He was running code 3 down a 4 lane highway about 2 am and a horse came out of nowhere jumped onto the hood of his car.  I saw the pictures Ive never seen so much blood.  Totalled the police car thankfully it hit the passenger side the hardest so my frined was not hurt.


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## Big Don (Jan 18, 2011)

granfire said:


> Yes, Black beauty covered that I believe.
> 
> Thankfully a horse also has (arguably) a self preservation instinct. cars lack that as of now.


For all the romance people have about horses, they are remarkably stupid animals. A horse will walk right off a cliff, if you let it.


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## granfire (Jan 18, 2011)

Big Don said:


> For all the romance people have about horses, they are remarkably stupid animals. A horse will walk right off a cliff, if you let it.



LOL, some have outright suicidal tendencies, indeed.


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## granfire (Jan 18, 2011)

ballen0351 said:


> I have a friend that works for another police department. He was running code 3 down a 4 lane highway about 2 am and a horse came out of nowhere jumped onto the hood of his car.  I saw the pictures Ive never seen so much blood.  Totalled the police car thankfully it hit the passenger side the hardest so my frined was not hurt.



He was damn, lucky!


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## Big Don (Jan 18, 2011)

A good friend of mine rides a mule. He gave me a whole list of reasons, a mule is stronger, a mule is smarter, a mule this, a mule that... But, what is really comes down to, he does it just to be contrary. His whole family drives Chevy trucks, he drives a ford...


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## ballen0351 (Jan 18, 2011)

granfire said:


> He was damn, lucky!


Yes he was if he had a passenger they would have been killed no doubt. that car was crushed. The horse got up and wanted to move but it was hurt bad and had to be put down


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## granfire (Jan 18, 2011)

Big Don said:


> A good friend of mine rides a mule. He gave me a whole list of reasons, a mule is stronger, a mule is smarter, a mule this, a mule that... But, what is really comes down to, he does it just to be contrary. His whole family drives Chevy trucks, he drives a ford...



LOL!

(But Mules _are_ smarter)


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## Emma (Jan 18, 2011)

jks9199 said:


> It really depends on the jurisdiction.  In Virginia, it's not -- but I know that in some states, you can actually make a DUI arrest for a person on horseback on the highway...


It's the same over here in Australia, you can also be arrested for riding a camel drunk, or a pushy.

Big don, while I agree with you that horses aren't the smartest (equivalent to a sheep apparently), they aren't quite that stupid, unless they are in a blind panic.


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## elder999 (Jan 18, 2011)

Here in NM someone gets cited for riding their horse DUI just about every year.....


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## Rayban (Jan 19, 2011)

I'm not too sure if you can register a horse on the roads.  At least I've never seen one with a numberplate taped to its backside.

Here in Victoria you have to register anything that goes on the road with the exception of towed vehicles (trailers...etc) No where does it say anything about horses :S


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## Hollywood1340 (Jan 19, 2011)

I know where I live a horse is a motor vehicle. You can tie them to parking meters but you must pay for the time they are there.


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## ballen0351 (Jan 20, 2011)

Hollywood1340 said:


> I know where I live a horse is a motor vehicle. You can tie them to parking meters but you must pay for the time they are there.


 Where do you stick the parking ticket when the meter time runs out


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## granfire (Jan 20, 2011)

ballen0351 said:


> Where do you stick the parking ticket when the meter time runs out




There is a slot in the front....


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## Big Don (Jan 20, 2011)

5 year old kid just got a bike for Christmas  and was riding it around the street, when a police man on a horse came  and said "Did Santa get you this for Christmas," in  a cute voice "yep"  said the kid proudly. The police man gave the kid a ticket and said  &#8220;Tell Santa to get you a helmet next time&#8221; .The kid replied angrily &#8220;Did  Santa get you that horse?&#8221; &#8220;yes&#8221; he said smugly. The kid replied &#8220;tell  him to put the Dick on the bottom of the horse not on top.


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## granfire (Jan 20, 2011)

big don said:


> 5 year old kid just got a bike for christmas  and was riding it around the street, when a police man on a horse came  and said "did santa get you this for christmas," in  a cute voice "yep"  said the kid proudly. The police man gave the kid a ticket and said  tell santa to get you a helmet next time .the kid replied angrily did  santa get you that horse? yes he said smugly. The kid replied tell  him to put the dick on the bottom of the horse not on top.



ahahahahahahhahaha!!!


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## Rayban (Jan 20, 2011)

Big Don said:


> 5 year old kid just got a bike for Christmas  and was riding it around the street, when a police man on a horse came  and said "Did Santa get you this for Christmas," in  a cute voice "yep"  said the kid proudly. The police man gave the kid a ticket and said  Tell Santa to get you a helmet next time .The kid replied angrily Did  Santa get you that horse? yes he said smugly. The kid replied tell  him to put the Dick on the bottom of the horse not on top.




That is Brilliant!!


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## Emma (Jan 21, 2011)

Rayban said:


> I'm not too sure if you can register a horse on the roads.  At least I've never seen one with a numberplate taped to its backside.
> 
> Here in Victoria you have to register anything that goes on the road with the exception of towed vehicles (trailers...etc) No where does it say anything about horses :S


What about pushbikes?


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## Blade96 (Jan 21, 2011)

Big Don said:


> 5 year old kid just got a bike for Christmas  and was riding it around the street, when a police man on a horse came  and said "Did Santa get you this for Christmas," in  a cute voice "yep"  said the kid proudly. The police man gave the kid a ticket and said  Tell Santa to get you a helmet next time .The kid replied angrily Did  Santa get you that horse? yes he said smugly. The kid replied tell  him to put the Dick on the bottom of the horse not on top.



lollollol


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## Blade96 (Jan 22, 2011)

I gotta fb that joke now


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## Rayban (Jan 23, 2011)

Emma said:


> What about pushbikes?




That's where the whole "I'm a vehicle too", "no you're not, get the hell out of my way" arguments come from.  As far as my understanding is, they are not powered and are exempt and have their own lanes.  Similar rule applies to postie bikes.  They are underpowered enough to be driven on both the roads and foot paths.  However they still have to be registered.

Maybe the power limit for registration in 1 Hp 

Then again when was the last time you knew Vicroads to be coherent about anything :S


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