# Shotokan Karate or Wing Chun ?



## Michael89 (Oct 6, 2015)

I thought about taking up one of class after I reach my goals in Taekwondo which I been in for 8 years. What is pro and con ? they are very beautiful arts to me so it is kind of hard to pick one for me and they are near me. I am looking for that works on self defense and sparring. also what should i expect from shotokan or wing chun as TKD guy ?


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## Star Dragon (Oct 7, 2015)

TKD and Shotokan are similar in several respects, which is not surprising because Shotokan had a great influence on the development of TKD. Both take a power based approach, are literally straightforward (despite the round kicks in TKD), emphasize the long range, advocate high kicks, share essentially the same forms etc.

WC is quite the opposite, it stresses infighting; not many kicks there but fast punching and trapping. It relies on speed and striking vital targets rather than bone crunching power.

Although there could be arguments found for either option, I would suggest taking up WC as to become a more versatile fighter, equally proficient at long and short range, feet and hands etc.

A famous martial artist who combined the two arts was Bruce Lee whose base was WC, but who became famous especially for his high kicks which he originally learned from TKD.

Just some thoughts.


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## RTKDCMB (Oct 7, 2015)

Star Dragon said:


> I would suggest taking up WC as to become a more versatile fighter, equally proficient at long and short range, feet and hands etc.


You can do that with TKD as well.


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## RTKDCMB (Oct 7, 2015)

Michael89 said:


> I thought about taking up one of class after I reach my goals in Taekwondo which I been in for 8 years. What is pro and con ? they are very beautiful arts to me so it is kind of hard to pick one for me and they are near me. I am looking for that works on self defense and sparring. also what should i expect from shotokan or wing chun as TKD guy ?


Whichever one you chose will depend on whether you want something similar or different. Wing Chun has a different method of punching than TKD and Karate.


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## Star Dragon (Oct 7, 2015)

RTKDCMB said:


> You can do that with TKD as well.



In principle, yes. Like most striking arts, TKD has both long range and short range techniques, of course. But how sophisticated their use is, where the emphasis lays in training, and how proficient the practitioner becomes at a particular skill, all that differs from one art to the other.

What the question really boils down to is: Does the OP want more of (essentially) the same? Or complement his training by something very different?


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## Douglasmase (Oct 7, 2015)

When I was coming up through the ranks I was told by one of my instructors,  "when you tie on a black belt toy should tie on a white belt. "

Now that I'm a little wiser I completely disagree with that statement.   A BlackBelt means nothing,  this is just the beginning of your journey. 
Now I'm not saying don't try another at, far from it,  what I'm saying is stick to something similar.  If you go 180 from your at something that is totally different it can muddy your art.
I would suggest keep it similarly I have a BlackBelt in taekwondo, now I do shotokan  and Tang Soo Do (4th Degree BlackBelt).  These arts ate similar but different and gave me a new perspective on my existing art, I used these to improve what I already do. 

So I would suggest sticking to Shotokan rather than wing chun.


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## geezer (Oct 7, 2015)

RTKDCMB said:


> You can do that with TKD as well.



Quite so. They offer Wing Chun at my son's TKD school. The instructor sees them as very different , and yet complementary approaches. I'm not sure that studying TKD and Shotokan would offer as much benefit since the two arts overlap considerably. It's really just a question of what you are looking for.

Briefly I taught some WC classes at that TKD school, and over the years I have taught WC to a few TKD black belts. The different fist orientation was never a problem. The biggest issue was learning to relax, followed by adjusting to our very different stances. But those that liked WC enough to stick with it all eventually overcame these problems and never complained about confusing the two systems. The two styles are so different that it is easy to practice both without mixing up the movements. TKD has its best range of application, and WC has its. It is quite possible to seamlessly flow from one to the other.

Oh, and one guy insisted that his WC training improved his TKD. That learning to relax more elevated his TKD technique. I don't know about that, but I'll take him at his word.


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## Hanzou (Oct 7, 2015)

Michael89 said:


> I thought about taking up one of class after I reach my goals in Taekwondo which I been in for 8 years. What is pro and con ? they are very beautiful arts to me so it is kind of hard to pick one for me and they are near me. I am looking for that works on self defense and sparring. also what should i expect from shotokan or wing chun as TKD guy ?



If those are your only choices, Wing Chun would be the better option. TKD and Shotokan are similar to each other that you'll pretty much be doing the same things in Shotokan that you did in TKD.

I'd recommend going WC, or if you're open to it, try a grappling style like Bjj, Judo, or Aikido.


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## Michael89 (Oct 7, 2015)

Hanzou said:


> If those are your only choices, Wing Chun would be the better option. TKD and Shotokan are similar to each other that you'll pretty much be doing the same things in Shotokan that you did in TKD.
> 
> I'd recommend going WC, or if you're open to it, try a grappling style like Bjj, Judo, or Aikido.


well, i already know Hapkido. there is also kickboxing and BJJ. it's all depends on price too.


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## Danny T (Oct 7, 2015)

As much of an affinity I have for WC, if you already are strong with Hapkido & TKD and BJJ is available I would recommend BJJ. With Hapkido and TKD you have striking covered. Get a good skill set with groundwork and then add in edged and impact weapons.


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## Michael89 (Oct 7, 2015)

you guys made alot of good agruements. I do want to try something different. with Bjj i guess i would be well round martial artist. alot to think about.


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## Hanzou (Oct 7, 2015)

Danny T said:


> As much of an affinity I have for WC, if you already are strong with Hapkido & TKD and BJJ is available I would recommend BJJ. With Hapkido and TKD you have striking covered. Get a good skill set with groundwork and then add in edged and impact weapons.



Agreed. Bjj would compliment the OP's existing skills in Hapkido and TKD very well.


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## TSDTexan (Oct 7, 2015)

Douglasmase said:


> When I was coming up through the ranks I was told by one of my instructors,  "when you tie on a black belt toy should tie on a white belt. "
> 
> Now that I'm a little wiser I completely disagree with that statement.   A BlackBelt means nothing,  this is just the beginning of your journey.
> Now I'm not saying don't try another at, far from it,  what I'm saying is stick to something similar.  If you go 180 from your at something that is totally different it can muddy your art.
> ...



Tkd transition to Karate etc very well.

WC can teach a lot of principles, tenants, tactics and strategies to other styles without having to learn new kicks and punches.

But many TKD places also teach Hopkido.
Which is a similar art but some branches of hopkido are very different.

My recommendation to the OP is try both. Get a solid read on both instructors. Find out how the upperclassmen treat each other and how they treat junior students.

Ultimately picking a good instructor and a classfamily that creates a open encouraging environment that fosters learning is ideal.

And yes... everyone should learn both ground fighting and takedown defense. Bjj to purple at least.


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## TSDTexan (Oct 7, 2015)

Michael89 said:


> you guys made alot of good agruements. I do want to try something different. with Bjj i guess i would be well round martial artist. alot to think about.



If you are thinking with options open, consider a good judo school that teaches standing throws/takedowns and judo groundfighting, (which is a scaled down, older root from which the Tree of BJJ grew)

There are some judo halls that have BJJ instructors, perhaps you live near one.

You will keep your hopkido takedowns sharper that way, instead of letting them rust. Hopkido got "most" of its sweeps and takedowns from Judo.


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## TSDTexan (Oct 7, 2015)

Hanzou said:


> If those are your only choices, Wing Chun would be the better option. TKD and Shotokan are similar to each other that you'll pretty much be doing the same things in Shotokan that you did in TKD.
> 
> I'd recommend going WC, or if you're open to it, try a grappling style like Bjj, Judo, or Aikido.



If he is going to do aikido... he should do Hankido.
Its a combination of hokido and aikido so he can keep the skills sharp.

But I think Judo, or Sombo would be of most benefit.


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## TSDTexan (Oct 7, 2015)

This is something a lot of "transitioners" shoutld read.

8 ranges of combat, maai, irimi, closing the gap

But the author is blind to ranged combat.
In addition to arrow tag... which is like paintball with bows and special arrows...

I recomend pepperball /slingshot training for learning ranged fighting.
So 9 ranges of combat.


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## TSDTexan (Oct 8, 2015)

geezer said:


> Quite so. They offer Wing Chun at my son's TKD school. The instructor sees them as very different , and yet complementary approaches. I'm not sure that studying TKD and Shotokan would offer as much benefit since the two arts overlap considerably. It's really just a question of what you are looking for.
> 
> Briefly I taught some WC classes at that TKD school, and over the years I have taught WC to a few TKD black belts. The different fist orientation was never a problem. The biggest issue was learning to relax, followed by adjusting to our very different stances. But those that liked WC enough to stick with it all eventually overcame these problems and never complained about confusing the two systems. The two styles are so different that it is easy to practice both without mixing up the movements. TKD has its best range of application, and WC has its. It is quite possible to seamlessly flow from one to the other.
> 
> Oh, and one guy insisted that his WC training improved his TKD. That learning to relax more elevated his TKD technique. I don't know about that, but I'll take him at his word.



A hard stylist who can learn how transition into internal arts has a longer life in martial arts when he learns how to power his attacks with something besides muscle.

I still envy my Judo coach. He only knew two arts. WC... and Judo. And those two are pretty deadly together. He was pretty ace at no gi judo... and wc traping is great for setting up throws.

He could hold his own on the ground if you took him there.
I asked him why he never took up mt for clinch fighting.
He said he had more then enough with WC and Judo.

He said he had a small plate and had too big a steak and potato.
He also said Wing Chun was deadly, and Judo was dangerous but not as lethal.


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## Hanzou (Oct 8, 2015)

TSDTexan said:


> If he is going to do aikido... he should do Hankido.
> Its a combination of hokido and aikido so he can keep the skills sharp.
> 
> But I think Judo, or Sombo would be of most benefit.



Where did the OP say that there was a Hankido or Sombo school near him? Hankido and Sombo are extremely rare. It's also difficult to find Judo schools these days that teach a wide curriculum that would include no-gi, newaza, leg-based takedowns, and/or leg locks. He would have to find a freestyle judo school for that, and again that's pretty hard to find.

Additionally, if he's already taken Hapkido, taking Aikido would be pretty redundant. He can keep his skills sharp by simply continuing to practice Hapkido.

Bjj is the better option in this case. He gets the benefit of learning Judo/Wrestling takedowns, Sombo leg locks, no-gi grappling, and Bjj's ever-evolving ground game. Again, a compliment to the skills he already has. If he's really lucky, the Bjj gym will have a Judo coach on staff.

Oh and yeah, there's a Bjj school near him.


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## Michael89 (Oct 9, 2015)

Hanzou said:


> Where did the OP say that there was a Hankido or Sombo school near him? Hankido and Sombo are extremely rare. It's also difficult to find Judo schools these days that teach a wide curriculum that would include no-gi, newaza, leg-based takedowns, and/or leg locks. He would have to find a freestyle judo school for that, and again that's pretty hard to find.
> 
> Additionally, if he's already taken Hapkido, taking Aikido would be pretty redundant. He can keep his skills sharp by simply continuing to practice Hapkido.
> 
> ...


I agree with you on everything. btw i find out there is two different BJJ school near me. one called "Carlson Gracie Indianapolis Jiu-jitsu" and other one is "Indiana Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu".


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## Hanzou (Oct 9, 2015)

Michael89 said:


> I agree with you on everything. btw i find out there is two different BJJ school near me. one called "Carlson Gracie Indianapolis Jiu-jitsu" and other one is "Indiana Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu".



Hmm, both appear to be great choices. The IBJJ gym is definitely more MMA and competitive slanted. That can be a positive or a negative depending on your needs. A gym with a MMA slant could go a long way towards bridging your skill set, and make you a more well rounded martial artist. The downside is that schools with a competitive slant can feel alienating as everyone is driven to be "the best", and guys are driven towards competing.

The Carlson Gracie school is a very good option as well. That school seems a bit more laid back and family oriented, and the instructor is a legit Carlson Gracie Black Belt, which is not a bad thing. The Gracie school appears to be solidly Bjj. However, as in the other gym, there's positives and negatives to this. A more laid back school may not be as "hardcore" as the MMA school. That school may sacrifice its combative edge in order to foster a more friendly environment for all comers. The flip side to that is the environment may be far more welcoming, and make you feel like more part of the group, despite your personal skill level.

So the choice is yours here; Do you want the more competitive/MMA oriented school, or do you want the more laid back family school that probably teaches more traditional Bjj? I would check out both and see which one is right for you. I think either one would be great if it fits your individual needs.


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## Michael89 (Oct 22, 2015)

I probably will end up taking kickboxing then BJJ.


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