# TSA: We're not the bad guys.  OK, we look like them.



## Bill Mattocks (Jan 22, 2010)

http://www.tsa.gov/blog/2010/01/can-tsa-copy-your-laptop-hard-drive-and.html

Long and short - the TSA says it's not them that searches your laptop and copies files from your hard drive.  It's the Customs and Border Patrol.  Sure, they both work for the Dept of Homeland Security.  Sure, they both wear blue uniforms and hassle innocent people and get off on their power trips.  But hey - the TSA's shirts are 'royal blue' and the C&BP's shirts are 'navy blue'.

Well, that clears up everything.  Our laptops are being searched and our files copied by the C&BP, not the TSA.  Makes a world of difference to us.  Thanks, TSA.


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## Bob Hubbard (Jan 22, 2010)

That's why I don't take my laptop when I travel and might run into either goon squad.


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## Sukerkin (Jan 22, 2010)

Just keep telling yourself it's the land of the free and you'll be fine :lol:.


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## seasoned (Jan 22, 2010)

All well and good, but, where is that fine line between being safe and being free? Can both coexists? Some times you have to give up one to get the other.


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## Deaf Smith (Jan 22, 2010)

I wonder, will a usb flash drive set off a metal detector? If not, just put it in your underwear. You guys know usb flash drives are now in 64 GB.

So just copy any files you need onto one of them, stick it DEEP inside your checked luggage (or skivvies), and then use a clean laptop to take on the plane.

Deaf


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## Scott T (Jan 22, 2010)

Deaf Smith said:


> I wonder, will a usb flash drive set off a metal detector? If not, just put it in your underwear. You guys know usb flash drives are now in 64 GB.
> 
> So just copy any files you need onto one of them, stick it DEEP inside your checked luggage (or skivvies), and then use a clean laptop to take on the plane.
> 
> Deaf


Just one small change to your plan, email the needed files to yourself. While not 100% secure it lessens the risk of having a flashlight shoved up your **** after they find that flash drive


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## grydth (Jan 22, 2010)

Customs has traditionally had very broad powers of search, much more than local police do. That is a good thing in general, and we seldom hear of all the dangerous things they find and prevent from coming in here. I think you'll find pretty much the same thing in most countries.

Generally speaking, when traveling don't take something you would not want some species of government official seeing. The funniest examples have been those couples who just couldn't leave the sex toys at home.

Where Bill may have a sound point, though, is that all of this copying may well go beyond a security search and indeed may not even be part of the entry search... not sure how much the Patriot Acts have degraded our protections against needless snooping and illicit government records keeping. Like to hear from an expert on this......


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## Bob Hubbard (Jan 22, 2010)

Use PGP, encrypt your files.  Oh wait, wanting privacy = suspicious person. You get detained and put on ice until you hand over your encryption keys.


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## grydth (Jan 22, 2010)

Devil's advocate: if Customs and TSA just let an al-Qaeda operative stroll through with a computer containing the master plan for a devastating WMD attack on the USA, would not everyone here be all over them for failing to protect the country?

I'm as concerned as you are with the erosion of our freedoms and privacy, but at times it seems we are putting our police forces in a position where nothing they do is right.


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## Bob Hubbard (Jan 22, 2010)

Step 1 - build wall
Step 2 - man wall
Step 3 - shoot on sight anyone not using the door
Step 4 - strip search, include a BCS on anyone using the door.
Step 5 - search all property brought in by those using the door. Include papers, phones, and any item or device capable of carrying data.
Step 6 - require all passwords, keys and decodes as a requirement for entry.
Step 7 - establish a DNA based passport system connected to a central database for all citizens. Check DNA at all doors.

Now, we're safe.  Entry takes forever, the Constitution is no where to be seen, and privacy is non-existent.  But, we're safe.

If that level of inspection is not acceptable, then a line between a no check open border and ultimate lock down must be drawn, and consistently enforced around the nation, by trained professionals, who act as professionals, who do not stoop to bullying, can restrain their anger, refrain from retribution and avoid temptation.
If we can not find those high quality people, then that line must be moved, until we find an acceptable amount of graft, corruption and ineptitude to employ in keeping us "safe", if only in a land where elves and orcs play.


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## Carol (Jan 23, 2010)

A proven way of clearing a TSA checkpoint without hassle (domestic flights only)

Step 1 - Take one cat
Step 2 - Put the cat in ATA bag. Tranquilizers recommended but optional. 
Step 3 - Approach TSA checkpoint
Step 4 - Take off shoes and jacket, load in bin
Step 5 - If other belongings are being brought on, put them in a bin also
Step 6 - Take cat out of ATA bag. Hold cat in arms, while putting ATA bag in bin
Step 7 - Walk through metal detector with cat in arms
Step 8 - Steal a glance at the TSA officers as they stare uneasily at the cat.
Step 9 - Put cat back in ATA bag
Step 10 - Put on shoes
Step 11 - Gather belongings and walk to gate.


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## Jenny_in_Chico (Jan 23, 2010)

Carol said:


> A proven way of clearing a TSA checkpoint without hassle (domestic flights only)
> 
> Step 1 - Take one cat
> Step 2 - Put the cat in ATA bag. Tranquilizers recommended but optional.
> ...


 
So you put the flash drive with the encrypted files describing the plan to destroy the US Capitol using WMD in the *cat's bottom*. I see. Very clever, Carol. Very clever indeed.


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## Ken Morgan (Jan 23, 2010)

Youre bloody well right I'm Tranquilizing the cat! Vicious little bastards when you try to *make* them go into a cage!

Carol your smuggling stuff in your cats butt?? Thats really quite sad in so many ways.and we think we know people.


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## Bill Mattocks (Jan 23, 2010)

grydth said:


> Devil's advocate: if Customs and TSA just let an al-Qaeda operative stroll through with a computer containing the master plan for a devastating WMD attack on the USA, would not everyone here be all over them for failing to protect the country?
> 
> I'm as concerned as you are with the erosion of our freedoms and privacy, but at times it seems we are putting our police forces in a position where nothing they do is right.



Would any law enforcement officer know the difference between a master plan for attack and a new advertising campaign for chocolate milk when searching a laptop in a hurried fashion?

Knowing that the C&BP searches laptops, would any terrorist bring his or her plans into the USA on a laptop, as opposed to say mailing it or even simply transferring the data to something like Google Docs and then retrieving it once they were in the USA?

Would any terrorist make their terrorist attack plans look like a word document labeled perhaps 'terrorist attack plan 1.doc' or would they perhaps disguise it as 'moms chocolate cake recipe.doc'?

I know for a fact that I've got gigabytes of data on my company laptop that no one but a serious geek like me could deciper; and the C&BP people are not them.  Logical architecture diagrams, data layouts, EMC volume layouts, chunkfile and ,v version control gzipp'd ascii files, etc.  I guarantee that no one but me is going to know what they're looking at.

The Israelis have it right - they look at the people.

So in answer to your question - no, I do not think they ought to be doing it.  In addition to being an unlawful search and seizure (as 'unreasonable'), it's a gigantic waste of time for all concerned.


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## Carol (Jan 23, 2010)

Ken Morgan said:


> Youre bloody well right I'm Tranquilizing the cat! Vicious little bastards when you try to *make* them go into a cage!
> 
> Carol your smuggling stuff in your cats butt?? Thats really quite sad in so many ways.and we think we know people.



But...but....Jenny said she wouldn't tell anyone... :idunno:


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## grydth (Jan 24, 2010)

Bill Mattocks said:


> Would any law enforcement officer know the difference between a master plan for attack and a new advertising campaign for chocolate milk when searching a laptop in a hurried fashion?
> 
> Knowing that the C&BP searches laptops, would any terrorist bring his or her plans into the USA on a laptop, as opposed to say mailing it or even simply transferring the data to something like Google Docs and then retrieving it once they were in the USA?
> 
> ...



You might be surprised at the capabilities of some of the specialists in law enforcement..... just because the TSA guy you're seeing looks like a moron doesn't mean that specialists aren't far away. Even in my day the forensics guys were impressive; our Tech folks at work are terrific and that makes me wonder just how good the govt snoopers (and their equipment) could be. I'm betting they can read more than you'd guess.

As for the criminals, you might be surprised at how stupid they can be, Just read your local paper regularly and you will see numerous examples of criminals dumber than my Black Lab (and way dumber than our Jack Russell). 

Is it an unlawful search? While I'm not an expert in that field, customs has traditionally had *very* broad authority. I don't recall many cases reversing their searches.... but if they're not stopping the folks and only spying on the contents later - you've likely got a sound legal point.


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## Marginal (Jan 24, 2010)

Ken Morgan said:


> Youre bloody well right I'm Tranquilizing the cat! Vicious little bastards when you try to *make* them go into a cage!
> 
> Carol your smuggling stuff in your cats butt?? Thats really quite sad in so many ways.and we think we know people.



Could be more innocent. 

"The galaxy is on Orion's belt."


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## Bill Mattocks (Jan 24, 2010)

grydth said:


> You might be surprised at the capabilities of some of the specialists in law enforcement..... just because the TSA guy you're seeing looks like a moron doesn't mean that specialists aren't far away. Even in my day the forensics guys were impressive; our Tech folks at work are terrific and that makes me wonder just how good the govt snoopers (and their equipment) could be. I'm betting they can read more than you'd guess.



I've worked with the best, inside and outside the government.  I've been in buildings inside the beltway where you were escorted and overhead lights told everyone you were coming, and if you stepped off the yellow lines, you got shot.  Trust me, I know more than they do, I taught a lot of them.  If I encrypt it, they're not reading it.  And not one of them can read the code I've written, because I wrote it.  And I'm not the best there is.  Point is, no, they won't know what they're looking at on over half the documents on my laptop.  And they've got what, 30 minutes, maybe an hour, to examine my laptop and decide whether or not to let me back into the country?  Nope; this is security theater.  They do not know what they're looking at.  Unless it's labeled _'sekrit plans to destroy Amerika'_, they won't have a clue.


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## Jenny_in_Chico (Jan 25, 2010)

Carol said:


> But...but....Jenny said she wouldn't tell anyone... :idunno:


 
Never trust a woman, Carol. We'll borrow your favorite shoes, flirt with your man and eat your secret stash of chocolate.


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## teekin (Jan 25, 2010)

Jenny_in_Chico said:


> Never trust a woman, Carol. *We'll borrow your favorite shoes, flirt with your man and eat your secret stash of chocolate.*


 
Jenny darlin, switch around some of those adjectives and you have a much more accurate picture. -vampfeed-

lori


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## xJOHNx (Jan 25, 2010)

> Never trust a woman, Carol. We'll borrow your favorite shoes, flirt with your man and eat your secret stash of chocolate


Like: We'll borrow your favorite man, flirt with your chocolate and eat your secret stash of shoes?


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## teekin (Jan 25, 2010)

xJOHNx said:


> Like: *We'll borrow your favorite man, flirt with your chocolate and eat your secret stash of shoes?*


 
Uhhhh, close, care to try again? :angel:
lori


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## Jenny_in_Chico (Jan 25, 2010)

Grendel308 said:


> Uhhhh, close, care to try again? :angel:
> lori


 
I thought that I was the only one here with a secret stash of men! Awww!!!


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## Bruno@MT (Jan 26, 2010)

grydth said:


> Devil's advocate: if Customs and TSA just let an al-Qaeda operative stroll through with a computer containing the master plan for a devastating WMD attack on the USA, would not everyone here be all over them for failing to protect the country?
> 
> I'm as concerned as you are with the erosion of our freedoms and privacy, but at times it seems we are putting our police forces in a position where nothing they do is right.



If an al qaeda operative would carry the doomsday plan with him on a laptop, he would be an idiot. Why would he take the risk?
encrypt it, Upload it to a secure server and download it in an internet cafe. Then decrypt it on the laptop itself on an encrypted drive.
These laptop searches are just part of the security circus.

And indeed, the officials will never get it right as long as the US public cannot accept the fact that you are never 100% safe and that sometimes, **** happens. You'd be a lot safer if the US simply stopped messing with middle eastern countries as if they were peons in a global game of chess.


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## xJOHNx (Jan 26, 2010)

Grendel308 said:


> Uhhhh, close, care to try again? :angel:
> lori



We'll favorite your borrowed man, flirt with your chocolate and secret your eaten  shoes of stash?


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## Carol (Jan 26, 2010)

xJOHNx said:


> We'll favorite your borrowed man, flirt with your chocolate and secret your eaten shoes of stash?


 
I would be mortified!


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## Jenny_in_Chico (Jan 26, 2010)

Carol said:


> I would be mortified!


 
God, I could really flirt with some chocolate right now.


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## Bruno@MT (Jan 26, 2010)

Jenny_in_Chico said:


> God, I could really flirt with some chocolate right now.



I am Belgian. My Kitchen and pantry probably contain several kilos of Belgian chocolate in various forms at all times. There's bars and plates of chocolate, bonbons, chocolate eggs, chocolate spread for sandwiches, chocolate crumbs for sandwiches, little chocolate balls for use in cakes etc.



Yep.
Looooooooooots of chocolate...
all Belgian...
all mine


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## xJOHNx (Jan 26, 2010)

Just ate some fine côte d'or. All black 86% cacao... Luckily chocolate is vegan.

And bruno, you'll have to share I'm in Ghent right now


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## Carol (Jan 26, 2010)

I just got my braces off (yay me!) so to celebrate I bought a bag of Swiss chocolate (Lindt truffles) to share with my counterparts at work.

The guys are all having a great time flirting with chocolate, lemme tell ya.


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## grydth (Jan 26, 2010)

Bill Mattocks said:


> I've worked with the best, inside and outside the government.  I've been in buildings inside the beltway where you were escorted and overhead lights told everyone you were coming, and if you stepped off the yellow lines, you got shot.  Trust me, I know more than they do, I taught a lot of them.  If I encrypt it, they're not reading it.  And not one of them can read the code I've written, because I wrote it.  And I'm not the best there is.  Point is, no, they won't know what they're looking at on over half the documents on my laptop.  And they've got what, 30 minutes, maybe an hour, to examine my laptop and decide whether or not to let me back into the country?  Nope; this is security theater.  They do not know what they're looking at.  Unless it's labeled _'sekrit plans to destroy Amerika'_, they won't have a clue.



Based on the totality of your posts here, I would trust you... and thereby conclude these searches should not be taking place.


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## Jenny_in_Chico (Jan 26, 2010)

Bruno@MT said:


> I am Belgian. My Kitchen and pantry probably contain several kilos of Belgian chocolate in various forms at all times. There's bars and plates of chocolate, bonbons, chocolate eggs, chocolate spread for sandwiches, chocolate crumbs for sandwiches, little chocolate balls for use in cakes etc.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
And you're already married, isn't that right?


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## Ken Morgan (Jan 26, 2010)

Jenny_in_Chico said:


> And you're already married, isn't that right?


 
The first time I came back from Belfast, I had 28 pounds of chocolate. The second time, with the kids, we had closer to 50...

Yeah....I got problems.

"Hi, my name is Ken"
"Hi Ken"
"...."


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## Ken Morgan (Jan 26, 2010)

Checking anything on a computer looking for terrorists secrets is a waste of resources.

The first misconception that most people have is that terrorists are stupid. No theyre not, theyre fanatics, but most are certainly not stupid. Are there stupid terrorists? Of course.

Perhaps it has more to do with industrial/economic snooping more than anything. All these business guys coming from all over the world are probably in competition with some American companies, what a great way to keep/create jobs. Or find someones secret tax files. 

The reason why there has been no major terrorist attack in the US for years is more because the terrorists got what they wanted, rather than a the success of security. They have the west/US involved in costly, bloody wars around the world, where before much of the local populous was indifferent or supportive of the west, they now are indifferent or hate the west. Great environment for the terrorists to take over sections of these countries.


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## Gordon Nore (Jan 26, 2010)

Ken Morgan said:


> Checking anything on a computer looking for terrorists secrets is a waste of resources.



Splendid post, Ken. Indeed, looking at 9/11 and the would-be shoe- and underwear bombers, the ones that got through have avoided devices like laptops that normally attract attention. The 9/11 hijackers used box-cutters, which escaped detection at the time.

The two more recent events in which airport security had been breached which did not involve terrorists were partly the result of officials not being at their posts.

But for some crafty explosives work, terror attempts on US planes have been rather blunt, crude efforts.


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## Blade96 (Jan 26, 2010)

seasoned said:


> All well and good, but, where is that fine line between being safe and being free? Can both coexists? Some times you have to give up one to get the other.


 
I think you can have both but, as one character says in one of my fave tv shows "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance." Its also made clear that if you are 'safe' you dont have to watch yourself but you give up your autonomy and independence. neither is good. Therefore i think a balance needs to be made. you can be safe but not retardedly so. You can be free and not be retardedly cautious where you're afraid of everything and violate others rights in the process.



grydth said:


> Generally speaking, when traveling don't take something you would not want some species of government official seeing. The funniest examples have been those couples who just couldn't leave the sex toys at home.
> 
> .....


 
LOL I just spit my tea on my monitor at the mental picture you created in my head of some species of gov official reaching into someone's trunk - and all he pulls out is someone's stash of used sex toys! =]



Jenny_in_Chico said:


> So you put the flash drive with the encrypted files describing the plan to destroy the US Capitol using WMD in the *cat's bottom*. I see. Very clever, Carol. Very clever indeed.


 
Ewww. carol


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## Carol (Jan 26, 2010)

Blade96 said:


> LOL I just spit my tea on my monitor at the mental picture you created in my head of some species of gov official reaching into someone's trunk - and all he pulls out is someone's stash of used sex toys! =]



LMAO!  They're supposed to go in checked baggage.

Oh did I type that out loud?





> Ewww. carol



PETA fears me.


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## Bill Mattocks (Jan 26, 2010)

Blade96 said:


> LOL I just spit my tea on my monitor at the mental picture you created in my head of some species of gov official reaching into someone's trunk - and all he pulls out is someone's stash of used sex toys!



When I traveled for a living, I used to pack a rubber chicken in my luggage on top of my clothes.  He was the first thing the inspector saw when he or she opened my luggage.  I called him 'Bony, the anti-terrorist rubber chicken' because wherever I took him, I never saw any terrorists, so he must be working.

However, in Dallas, on my way back from Brazil, the Customs Officer opened my luggage and there was Bony.  He picked Bony up and held it up (I'm thinking he was hoping to humiliate me) and loudly announced _"What's *THIS* for?"_  I looked him right in the eye and said _"Sex."_

That was the fastest clearance I ever got through customs.


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## Ken Morgan (Jan 26, 2010)

A guy I use to work with, karate, man&#8217;s man, a legend in his own mind type guy was coming back from Mexico to Toronto when the hot 18 year old beside him asked if he could take her bag through customs for her. There was alcohol in the bag and she was too young to drink/buy. 

So buddy gets up to customs, they open the bag, look at him and ask whose bag it was. He of course says mine. Then they proceeded to pull out pink panties, a couple of thongs, makeup and a vibrator.


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## Blade96 (Jan 27, 2010)

Carol said:


> LMAO! They're supposed to go in checked baggage.
> 
> Oh did I type that out loud?




Yep. 



			
				carol said:
			
		

> PETA fears me.


 
should fear me too. cause i'd stop em if i could.



Bill Mattocks said:


> When I traveled for a living, I used to pack a rubber chicken in my luggage on top of my clothes. He was the first thing the inspector saw when he or she opened my luggage. I called him 'Bony, the anti-terrorist rubber chicken' because wherever I took him, I never saw any terrorists, so he must be working.
> 
> However, in Dallas, on my way back from Brazil, the Customs Officer opened my luggage and there was Bony. He picked Bony up and held it up (I'm thinking he was hoping to humiliate me) and loudly announced _"What's *THIS* for?"_ I looked him right in the eye and said _"Sex."_
> 
> That was the fastest clearance I ever got through customs.


 


Ken Morgan said:


> A guy I use to work with, karate, mans man, a legend in his own mind type guy was coming back from Mexico to Toronto when the hot 18 year old beside him asked if he could take her bag through customs for her. There was alcohol in the bag and she was too young to drink/buy.
> 
> So buddy gets up to customs, they open the bag, look at him and ask whose bag it was. He of course says mine. Then they proceeded to pull out pink panties, a couple of thongs, makeup and a vibrator.


 
Now THESE are funny!


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## Bruno@MT (Jan 27, 2010)

Jenny_in_Chico said:


> And you're already married, isn't that right?





Yes. Happily married and faithful I might add


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## Jenny_in_Chico (Jan 27, 2010)

Bill Mattocks said:


> However, in Dallas, on my way back from Brazil, the Customs Officer opened my luggage and there was Bony. He picked Bony up and held it up (I'm thinking he was hoping to humiliate me) and loudly announced _"What's *THIS* for?"_ I looked him right in the eye and said _"Sex."_
> 
> That was the fastest clearance I ever got through customs.


 
Hah, Bill...I have to say, your balls must be made of pure brass.


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## Jenny_in_Chico (Jan 27, 2010)

Bruno@MT said:


> Yes. Happily married and faithful I might add


 
That last bit wasn't necessary...I have zero interest in married men. Nor do I have interest in men I talk to on the internet. So you're safe from me, sguar pie.


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## Bruno@MT (Jan 27, 2010)

Yeah no worries. I wasn't implying anything 

I never understood why anyone would want a relationship with someone who is married. It's a recipe for disaster. I also don't understand why anyone would be unfaithful. It's also a recipe for disaster. and frankly, if my wedding would be so bad I'd feel the need to be unfaithful, I'd get a divorce first.


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## Bob Hubbard (Jan 27, 2010)

Not to derail the interesting tangent but lets focus on the TSA stuff please.  Rest should go in a non-serious area.  Danke.


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## teekin (Jan 27, 2010)

I 'm not the one eating my shoes and chocolate makes me break out.
 just sayin:angel:
lori


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