# Open containers...



## Carol (Dec 17, 2008)

Just heard about a strange story, and I'm curious to know about what you folks in the LE community would say about it. 

A guy, lets call him "Bjorn", was having a small holiday get-together at his house.  A few family members, a few friends, a mix of children and adults.  Bjorn and a couple of the guys were having a drink or two.   A decision was made to see a movie.  Bjorn says his SUV is big enough to fit everyone.  Bjorn's gf volunteers to drive, because Bjorn has been drinking.  They drive a couple towns away to the theatre, catch the film, 90 minutes later they are back on the road again heading for home, Bjorn's gf is driving again.

On the way home, Bjorn's gf says she wants a Diet Coke, and pulls in to a convenience store.  Bjorn and his gf go in to the store, the other friends and relatives stay behind in the truck, chatting about the movie.  

Bjorn and his gf come back to the car.  The gf cracks open her Diet Coke.  Bjorn hands bottles of water to the folks in the back, and is met by a chorus of "Thanks". 

As the gf eases the truck out of the driveway, the sound of a bottle opening can be heard.  It isn't a bottle of water.  The youngest of the group (a seventh grader), says "Uncle Bjorn, what did you get to drink?"

Bjorn answered, "A Sam Adams"

Bjorn's gf seemed unfazed at the prospect of driving Bjorn's SUV with Bjorn riding shotgun, pounding a brewski.  However, at least one of the adults in the back two rows was extremely uncomfortable.


When I was told this story, I turned to the person telling and asked "So what did you do?"

The person said they didn't know what they could do.  They thought about calling the police, but was worried about family repercussions (no way to make a private phone call in an SUV).  They had also heard stories about how "everyone can get in trouble" if there is an open container in the car, and was worried that they would be arrested themselves if they tried to make a report.  If this sounds naive...its because the person telling me the story is young (college-age).  As far as I know, the young person decided to just keep it cool, and everyone made it home without incident.

I know y'all can't give legal advice....but if a young person came up to you and asked what to do if they found themselves in a car where someone (other than the driver) had an open container, what would you tell them?


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## Archangel M (Dec 17, 2008)

Get smarter friends.

Seriously though. Id tell my "friend" he better not open that bottle in the car because if we get pulled over Im telling the cop it was YOU and only YOU that had the open container. Open container here is a traffic infraction that can get you a ticket if you are a driver or a passenger. Underage possession is a law violation that can result in arrest.

But Im a cop so thats easy for me to say.


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## Carol (Dec 17, 2008)

Tough call when its family though.   "Bjorn's gf" is the college kid's mom, and "Bjorn" (mom's squeeze) is definitely not under age, he sounds like he's more in the  "old enough to know better" category.  

Nice, huh?  Poor kid.


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## Korppi76 (Dec 17, 2008)

As not native English speaker I didn't understand this. Or was this that you cant have open bottle of beer on car?


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## Carol (Dec 17, 2008)

No worries.   You can't have an open bottle of beer (or any other kind of alcohol) in the car.  This is sometimes referred to as an "open container law" because the problem is the open alcohol, regardless of the container its in (bottle, can, cup).


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## Korppi76 (Dec 17, 2008)

Ok thanks. Now I understand.
And I agree with Archangel M.
We have little bit similar thing with seatbelts and  ticket is given to person who is without seatbelt. (but  if that person is your kid you get that ticket.)


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## jks9199 (Dec 17, 2008)

Many, if not most or all, states have a law on the books that prohibits having an open container of alcoholic beverage in a car while it's being driven.

If you find yourself in a car where the *driver* is drinking -- get out of the car!  If you're the driver of a car, and your buddies want to start or continue the party -- stop the car, and tell them it's not going anywhere as long as there's an open container, because you don't want the ticket.  If you're simply a passenger in a car where someone's drinking... I'd still encourage you to tell them to stop, and ask the driver to stop the car.  But, like Archangel said, that's easy for me to say as a cop.

The driver of a car is kind of like the captain of a ship; they're responsible for whatever is going on in the car.  I can tag the driver and the passenger for open container, if I want to, if there's an open container in the car.


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## Drac (Dec 17, 2008)

With all the heightned awareness about drinking and driving it would be a real bad thing to even contemplate getting into a motor vehicle with an open container..


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## Lynne (Dec 20, 2008)

When we lived in Texas, about 18 years ago, I'm fairly sure one could drive around with open containers. Well, people did it all the time. Maybe the law wasn't enforced. After all, Tx is a country unto itself, lol.

It wasn't that long ago one could carry concealed weapons in Texas without a permit (as far as I know). Or maybe it was unlawful also but not enforced.


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## MBuzzy (Dec 20, 2008)

I totally depends on the state.  There is no federal regulation regarding open containers.  While I lived in VA, I was actually advised by a police officer that it was legal for passengers to have open containers.  In fact, there are currently 8 states that do not have the standard open container laws.  Arkansas, Connecticut, Delaware, Mississippi, Missouri, Tennessee, Virginia, and West Virginia are all states in which the passengers in a vehicle ARE ALLOWED to have open containers of alcohol while the vehicle is in motion.  There is still currently one state, Mississippi, which allows DRIVERS to drink while the vehicle is in motion and while the driver's BAC stays below 0.08%.  In PA, the back seat passengers may have open containers, but front seat passengers or the driver may not.

So the answer to the question is....depending where I was, I may do nothing.  I have lived in VA and PA....so the whole open container thing isn't as big of a deal to me.


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## MA-Caver (Dec 21, 2008)

Here in Tennessee you get busted with an open container... you're BUSTED... period! No ticket, no warning... straight to jail do not pass go and all that. 
Same with Georgia and Alabama where I live just a few miles from each border and the interstate runs through all three if I were to go down to certain caves that I know of in Alabama. So it's running a triple gauntlet with an open container. 
But then again... I don't drink and do not allow alcohol in my vehicle at all. Soooo I got no worries really. :uhyeah:


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## jks9199 (Dec 21, 2008)

MBuzzy said:


> I totally depends on the state.  There is no federal regulation regarding open containers.  While I lived in VA, I was actually advised by a police officer that it was legal for passengers to have open containers.  In fact, there are currently 8 states that do not have the standard open container laws.  Arkansas, Connecticut, Delaware, Mississippi, Missouri, Tennessee, Virginia, and West Virginia are all states in which the passengers in a vehicle ARE ALLOWED to have open containers of alcohol while the vehicle is in motion.  There is still currently one state, Mississippi, which allows DRIVERS to drink while the vehicle is in motion and while the driver's BAC stays below 0.08%.  In PA, the back seat passengers may have open containers, but front seat passengers or the driver may not.
> 
> So the answer to the question is....depending where I was, I may do nothing.  I have lived in VA and PA....so the whole open container thing isn't as big of a deal to me.


In VA, technically, a passenger can have an open container.  Functionally -- the driver's likely to get charged, because the code reads:
_A rebuttable presumption that the driver has consumed an alcoholic beverage in violation of this section shall be created if (i) an open container is located within the passenger area of the motor vehicle, (ii) the alcoholic beverage in the open container has been at least partially removed and (iii) the appearance, conduct, odor of alcohol, speech or other physical characteristic of the driver of the motor vehicle may be reasonably associated with the consumption of an alcoholic beverage.
_​Additionally, some localities have ordinances that more generally prohibit having an open container or simply drinking in public.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Dec 21, 2008)

Smart rule of thumb and a survival rule as well is to simply have and allow no open containers in a car and also always to have a designated driver that has had no alcohol!  Really folks it is pretty simple!


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## MBuzzy (Dec 21, 2008)

jks9199 said:


> In VA, technically, a passenger can have an open container.  Functionally -- the driver's likely to get charged, because the code reads:_A rebuttable presumption that the driver has consumed an alcoholic beverage in violation of this section shall be created if (i) an open container is located within the passenger area of the motor vehicle, (ii) the alcoholic beverage in the open container has been at least partially removed and (iii) the appearance, conduct, odor of alcohol, speech or other physical characteristic of the driver of the motor vehicle may be reasonably associated with the consumption of an alcoholic beverage.
> _​Additionally, some localities have ordinances that more generally prohibit having an open container or simply drinking in public.



Very true, maybe I should have added - just because something is legal, doesn't make it a good idea.  Or doesn't mean that there are other ways that they can get you.  Still not something that I would ever do.


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## sgtmac_46 (Dec 27, 2008)

Carol Kaur said:


> Just heard about a strange story, and I'm curious to know about what you folks in the LE community would say about it.
> 
> A guy, lets call him "Bjorn", was having a small holiday get-together at his house.  A few family members, a few friends, a mix of children and adults.  Bjorn and a couple of the guys were having a drink or two.   A decision was made to see a movie.  Bjorn says his SUV is big enough to fit everyone.  Bjorn's gf volunteers to drive, because Bjorn has been drinking.  They drive a couple towns away to the theatre, catch the film, 90 minutes later they are back on the road again heading for home, Bjorn's gf is driving again.
> 
> ...



State and local laws vary.....in Missouri it's not illegal for a passenger to have an open container, it IS illegal for the driver.Some  municipalities have ordinances for open containers, but they apply to the person in constructive possession of the open container.  

But again, by Missouri law, if you're a passenger with a designated driver, pop a top and ENJOY, I guess.....as we haven't made it illegal yet!

But even with an open container law, how an officer could apply that to everyone in the vehicle if one person is obviously in control and ownership of it is beyond me.......but that would depend on the wording of the statute.


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## Adept (Dec 30, 2008)

Well, down here in the land of Oz, I'd tell the kid to stop being such a girly-man. It ain't illegal!


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## Cryozombie (Jan 4, 2009)

How do open containers apply to non-passenger compartments of a vehicle?  Such as the trunk?

What about reclosable containers that are completly full, and obviously not being drinken (drank, drunk?) from, such as a flask?

What about empty, refillable containers (such as the kind used for bottling homebrews) being transported in the vehicle? or a garbage bag full of empties being taken for recycling?

How does the open container law apply to these?


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## Drac (Jan 5, 2009)

Cryozombie said:


> How do open containers apply to non-passenger compartments of a vehicle? Such as the trunk?
> 
> What about reclosable containers that are completly full, and obviously not being drinken (drank, drunk?) from, such as a flask?
> 
> ...


 

*4301.62 Opened container of beer or intoxicating liquor prohibited at certain premises.* Except as provided in division (D) or (E) of this section, while operating or being a passenger in or on a motor vehicle on any street, highway, or other public or private property open to the public for purposes of vehicular travel or parking;

*(E)* An opened bottle of wine that was purchased from the holder of a permit that authorizes the sale of wine for consumption on the premises where sold is not an opened container for the purposes of this section if both of the following apply:*(1)* The opened bottle of wine is securely resealed by the permit holder or an employee of the permit holder before the bottle is removed from the premises. The bottle shall be secured in such a manner that it is visibly apparent if the bottle has been subsequently opened or tampered with. *(2)* The opened bottle of wine that is resealed in accordance with division *(E)(1)* of this section is stored in the trunk of a motor vehicle or, if the motor vehicle does not have a trunk, behind the last upright seat or in an area not normally occupied by the driver or passengers and not easily accessible by the driver.


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## jks9199 (Jan 5, 2009)

Cryozombie said:


> How do open containers apply to non-passenger compartments of a vehicle?  Such as the trunk?
> 
> What about reclosable containers that are completly full, and obviously not being drinken (drank, drunk?) from, such as a flask?
> 
> ...


Common sense...

The law is aimed at preventing literal drinking and driving.  In VA, technically, a passenger can have an open container -- but if there's any evidence that the driver has been drinking, we can charge them.  So... the examples you list don't really fall under the intent of the law.  But if there's any reason for doubt... just put them somewhere that's not accessible to the driver while they're operating the car.  Like in the trunk, or in the back seat out of reach.

(And the question about the empties on the way to recycling is just playing the what-if monkey game on a legal question...)


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## Drac (Jan 5, 2009)

jks9199 said:


> (And the question about the empties on the way to recycling is just playing the what-if monkey game on a legal question...)


 
Dammit, ya beat me to saying it....


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## Carol (Jan 5, 2009)

I would hazard a guess that a Hefty bag full of empties, tied up and  in the rear of the car (out of reach of the driver) looks a lot more like recyclables than loose empties on the floor of the car.  Just sayin'


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## jks9199 (Jan 5, 2009)

Carol Kaur said:


> I would hazard a guess that a Hefty bag full of empties, tied up and  in the rear of the car (out of reach of the driver) looks a lot more like recyclables than loose empties on the floor of the car.  Just sayin'


:rofl:

I've stopped people with enough of that sort of "recycling" in the car to buy a tank of gas -- at it's peak price!


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