# What goes through your head in a street fight?



## O'Malley (Oct 11, 2015)

Hey everyone! It's been a while since I last posted here.

I've recently been in situations where I came close to getting in trouble. Last night I was getting out of a nightclub and when a guy asked my friend for cigarettes in a rather aggressive manner, it turned into the classic "shoving each other" scenario between them but it de-escalated thanks to the bouncers nearby. On some occasions, I've been stared down/provoked by groups of guys but so far I've been lucky and have only taken one hit (a sucker punch by a guy who was with 5-6 of his buddies, to which I just said "leave me alone" and walked away). That time I was surprised at how weak the punch felt compared to the mugger's build, it hit me near the temple yet it didn't throw me off balance.

The problem is that whenever things start to look like trouble, I just don't know what to do. I just can't think "ok if the situation goes out of control I'll have to punch this guy". And now I just can't help asking myself "what if I really get into a fight?" How will I react? I think that at some point I'll get angry and hit him/them but I'm afraid that I'll take too much time to set my mind to "go for the kill" and get beaten up by someone I could have handled otherwise. I've done some sparring and I feel like most of the bullies I see in the street are worse than me at fighting but it's not like I'm used to hitting strangers!

I'd like to ask some questions to people who have actually had to defend themselves in a street fight: what went through your head at that moment? How did you manage to bring yourself to act and protect your health? Did you have to train for it or does it just come from instinct? Any tips on how to mentally handle potentially violent situations?

Thanks!


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## drop bear (Oct 12, 2015)

You settle down a bit once it gets physical.  A lot of that anxiety is about getting in a fight. Once you are in a fight you are not going to be anxious about getting in one. Then you can get a bit of depression or anger afterwards.

I set a logical line that if they cross I go for them. So I will mostly just guage their threat level decide it is getting dangerous and then go right we may as well be on and then attack them.


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## RTKDCMB (Oct 12, 2015)

Hopefully not my opponent's fist.


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## Jenna (Oct 12, 2015)

@O'Malley What is it that gets you into a situation where you are "stared down/provoked by groups of guys" or sucker punched by one of a group?  If it is ok, I would ask what are you getting up to that these situations are the culmination?  Are you more unlucky than others that you attract that kind of attention?


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## Touch Of Death (Oct 12, 2015)

I find that trying to remember the lyrics to, "Singing In The Rain", has a very calming effect.


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## Paul_D (Oct 12, 2015)

O'Malley said:


> The problem is that whenever things start to look like trouble, I just don't know what to do.




Very simple, leave.

You have, as many do, confused “fighting” with self defence, they are not the same thing, not even close (for more information listen to the Iain Abernethy’s Podcast The Martial Map).

As for avoiding trouble once you have identified it, I would suggest you purchase a copy of Dead or Alive: The Ultimate Self Protection Handbook, by Geoff Thompson, or if you are in America, The Little Black Book of Violence by Lawrence Kane & Kris Wilder.

These books focus primarily not of “fighting” once you get into trouble, but how to identify the warning signs so you can then avoid trouble in the first place.

Think of it like teaching a child to cross the road.  You wouldn’t say to them “OK, if you want to cross just step out into the road, don’t bother looking, don’t bother finding a safe place to cross, just step out and then if a car hits you do this stuntman role I’m going to teach you and you’ll dole over the bonnet (or hood if you’re American) over the roof and land safely behind the car.

Instead you teach children how to avoid getting hit by the car in the first place.

If you familiarise yourself with the rituals of violence you are can spot trouble devolving, and take the necessary action.  Dead or Alive for example has an entire section dedicated to dealing with eye contact challengers in pubs (bars).  It tells you how to kill the incident dead, straight way, and it won’t develop into “fight” (for want of a better word).

The other skills in these books (Threat Awareness & Evaluation, The Fence, Coppers colour Codes, Target Hardening etc) will give you all you needed to avoid most incidents ever getting to the point where a physical response becomes necessary.


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## O'Malley (Oct 12, 2015)

drop bear said:


> You settle down a bit once it gets physical.  A lot of that anxiety is about getting in a fight. Once you are in a fight you are not going to be anxious about getting in one. Then you can get a bit of depression or anger afterwards.
> 
> I set a logical line that if they cross I go for them. So I will mostly just guage their threat level decide it is getting dangerous and then go right we may as well be on and then attack them.



That's more or less what I thought would happen if I ever get in a fight. The "gauging" part is what I'm not able to do as I just get puzzled because I usually don't expect this kind of trouble. My mind goes blank and I continue whatever I'm doing while trying to figure out the situation. It goes like a "Oh is this really an attack? Didn't see it coming. What do I do?" loop.



RTKDCMB said:


> Hopefully not my opponent's fist.



Hahaha saw that one coming miiiiiiiiiles away! 



Jenna said:


> @O'Malley What is it that gets you into a situation where you are "stared down/provoked by groups of guys" or sucker punched by one of a group?  If it is ok, I would ask what are you getting up to that these situations are the culmination?  Are you more unlucky than others that you attract that kind of attention?



No problem, feel free to ask. I don't know where you live but here in Belgium I guess that being alone is enough to get you in trouble. A woman filmed herself walking in the streets of Brussels (not in dark alleys, I'm talking about rather busy streets) and men were shouting at her "you wh****! suck my ****! you're just a ***!". And as a man I just have more chances to get physically assaulted by a guy who thinks it's cool to beat people up. I also happen to live in a "dangerous" place and to have studied in risky cities because none of this has ever happened to me when I was abroad. For example, I used to study in a Belgian city near the French border and sometimes there would be some French guys who came to pick up fights and then flee back to their country so that the police would not bother pursuing them. 

So when I'm alone and the "meanies" are in a group they stare me down and try to provoke me. It's funny because when they're alone they never even look at me. Last month I was walking home and I encountered two guys who started staring at me from the distance. I tried to ignore them but I caught them looking at each other, then one of them looked at me and said "no" to his friend. Then we walked past each other and I heard one of them loudly say something in arab. Back then I was quite anxious but looking back at it I could have seriously messed up each one of them in a "one-on-one" situation so my guess would be that they thought they were not many enough to prey on me, they never attack if they suspect that the victim might fight back.

The time I got hit, I was like 16 yo and I was going to the bakery with a friend of mine. A kid rode past us on his bike and started to insult us. I didn't take him seriously and ignored him. Then he gathered 5-6 older guys (16-20 yo) and they started throwing things at us from behind. We didn't react. Then I sensed that someone was tapping on my shoulder to call me and as I turned my head he punched me in the eye.

I didn't really register what was going on. I just said "WTF is your problem?". Then I saw that one of them was filming: they were trying to beat me up and record it so that they could show off to their friends. We escaped by locking ourselves up in the bakery. When the police caught them they said that most of them had already been charged with assault.

Another example: a few years ago, I was getting on a train and the guy behind me bumped into me. He caught my arm and said "hey you made me drop my weed motherfucker! Say you're sorry!". I was still trying to process what was happening when my friend just kicked him in the face and the guy fell off the train. But again I didn't do anything and still got in trouble.



Touch Of Death said:


> I find that trying to remember the lyrics to, "Singing In The Rain", has a very calming effect.



How about the Flintstones theme? 



Paul_D said:


> Very simple, leave.
> 
> You have, as many do, confused “fighting” with self defence, they are not the same thing, not even close



I do not think I have. So far, I've been able to avoid fighting and I would love to be able to defuse any situation (wouldn't that be the ultimate form of Aïkido?) but I know that at some point I might be compelled to fight.



> Think of it like teaching a child to cross the road.  You wouldn’t say to them “OK, if you want to cross just step out into the road, don’t bother looking, don’t bother finding a safe place to cross, just step out and then if a car hits you do this stuntman role I’m going to teach you and you’ll dole over the bonnet (or hood if you’re American) over the roof and land safely behind the car.
> 
> Instead you teach children how to avoid getting hit by the car in the first place.
> 
> ...



I get your point. Yet, as I said, I'm already trying my best to avoid physical confrontation. I certainly would benefit from the strategies found in these books but I'm afraid that there are some times where you can't avoid fighting. I was at the train station and a man was "walking" in crutches not far from me. Some guys came up to him and kicked his crutches, then when he was down they started kicking him. Someone called the security and they fleed away. I don't think the guy in crutches was being uncautious by trying to take the train, he just happened to bump into the wrong people.

To use your analogy, even if you try your best not to cross the road when it's dangerous, there are some cars that will race on the sidewalk to try to run over you.

I hope my original question is clearer now


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## drop bear (Oct 12, 2015)

O'Malley said:


> That's more or less what I thought would happen if I ever get in a fight. The "gauging" part is what I'm not able to do as I just get puzzled because I usually don't expect this kind of trouble. My mind goes blank and I continue whatever I'm doing while trying to figure out the situation. It goes like a "Oh is this really an attack? Didn't see it coming. What do I do?" loop.




Yeah if you keep really still mabye they will go away. 

You need to start making yourself a bit safe instead. Creating space getting your hands up that sort of thing.


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## Jenna (Oct 13, 2015)

@O'Malley I understand how you mean about Brussels, though I have been around the town on occasions and sofa surfed in Molenbeek for a time even though I was well warned not to haha.. still I do not have lasting memories of threat in Brussels and had not trouble beyond what I would call drunken boisterousness exactly like those insults you listed of the lady who filmed her self.  

And because of our differing experiences it is making me think a deal about your Brussels as it present it self to you.. So I wonder, if it is ok to say - you seem hypervigilant - and which would be exactly expected after having been assaulted previously - does that feel true??  Like a perception of threat when others might not perceive the same and which might then be tempering your demeanour when you are out on your business on the streets?  What do you think?  Is that plausible at all?? I mean how do you act when you are out and around?  

How is your eye contact when you encounter these groups?? I think appropriate eye contact is paramount in avoidance and assertive de-escalation.  How would you rate your eye contact with these groups and your own demeanour in that situation?? Like I mean not staring them down, just make eye contact so they know you are there and you know likewise?  I think eye contact is key to being assertive and yet not seeming aggressive.. you know about assertiveness over aggressiveness yes?  

Sorry if this diverts from your original question.. I hope today is good one for you Jxx


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## Hanzou (Oct 13, 2015)

Paul_D said:


> Very simple, leave.
> 
> You have, as many do, confused “fighting” with self defence, they are not the same thing, not even close (for more information listen to the Iain Abernethy’s Podcast The Martial Map).
> 
> ...



So if we just need to read some books for self defense, I guess we don't need to practice any martial arts to learn how to fight and protect ourselves.


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## O'Malley (Oct 13, 2015)

drop bear said:


> Yeah if you keep really still mabye they will go away.
> 
> You need to start making yourself a bit safe instead. Creating space getting your hands up that sort of thing.



Yep, that makes sense. Wouldn't getting my hands up be seen as a sign of aggression, though?



Jenna said:


> @O'Malley I understand how you mean about Brussels, though I have been around the town on occasions and sofa surfed in Molenbeek for a time even though I was well warned not to haha.. still I do not have lasting memories of threat in Brussels and had not trouble beyond what I would call drunken boisterousness exactly like those insults you listed of the lady who filmed her self.



I just study and party in Brussels so I don't know much about Molenbeek. I actually live in Charleroi, a city in the south that happens to have the worst reputation among all Belgian cities. I wouldn't describe it as being as dangerous as people like to depict it but it's not safe either. Apart from the cigarettes incident (which happened in Brussels) I've mostly had trouble here in Charleroi. My point here was that if a woman can be called names just because she happens to pass by (and btw the people in the video didn't seem drunk) I'm not surprised that a man can be physically assaulted just because he happens to be there. I don't mind drunk people being a little hotheaded as it's not dangerous. I'm more concerned about guys that think it's fun to beat up people just because they outnumber them. They think they can do whatever they want because the police never catches them and they feel like violence is cool, like they're playing GTA. 



> And because of our differing experiences it is making me think a deal about your Brussels as it present it self to you.. So I wonder, if it is ok to say - you seem hypervigilant - and which would be exactly expected after having been assaulted previously - does that feel true??  Like a perception of threat when others might not perceive the same and which might then be tempering your demeanour when you are out on your business on the streets?  What do you think?  Is that plausible at all?? I mean how do you act when you are out and around?



It's a legitimate question, and one I've asked myself a couple of times. It's true that the girls around me don't usually notice dangerous people but the guys definitely do and among them I am one of the most relaxed and carefree. I just mind my own business and that's why I usually get caught unprepared and I need time to figure out what's actually going on. I can be texting a friend while walking in the street just before feeling a hand on my shoulder, looking up and seeing that 5-6 guys are forming a circle around me and getting dangerously close. 



> How is your eye contact when you encounter these groups?? I think appropriate eye contact is paramount in avoidance and assertive de-escalation.  How would you rate your eye contact with these groups and your own demeanour in that situation?? Like I mean not staring them down, just make eye contact so they know you are there and you know likewise?  I think eye contact is key to being assertive and yet not seeming aggressive.. you know about assertiveness over aggressiveness yes?
> 
> Sorry if this diverts from your original question.. I hope today is good one for you Jxx



I do what I was "taught" to do: I look at them like they're a part of the scenery, show no reaction whatsoever and try not to stare them down while not overtly avoiding eye contact. I also make sure that when I break eye contact I look sideways because when you look down you look like a victim. It usually works but sometimes there's no helping it. When I was 17 I was walking with a friend when a car slowly passed by us. I glanced at the car, it stopped and the inhabitants got out and screamed at us "what'cha looking at? Want me to break your face?!". They looked like they were in their early 30s, instead of getting a job they'd rather pick up fights with kids.

I must have one of those faces hahaha. I take it with philosophy but it still bothers me as I've never hit someone seriously (I did knock a man out once but we were sparring and I didn't mean to). I'm afraid that if things get out of hand my legs could give out or that I could miss the target and get beaten or that I would be too busy trying to understand the situation to properly avoid getting my butt kicked.

Have a nice day too!


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## drop bear (Oct 13, 2015)

O'Malley said:


> Yep, that makes sense. Wouldn't getting my hands up be seen as a sign of aggression, though?



Depends on the over all package you are presenting. You will get the best results if you are doing them a favor avoiding the fight. Not the other way round.


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## Touch Of Death (Oct 13, 2015)

drop bear said:


> Depends on the over all package you are presenting. You will get the best results if you are doing them a favor avoiding the fight. Not the other way round.


Time to scratch that itch on your neck, ya know?


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## Kung Fu Wang (Oct 13, 2015)

O'Malley said:


> I'd like to ask some questions to people who have actually had to defend themselves in a street fight: what went through your head at that moment?


When bad guys try to hurt your family members, what go through your head at that moment is you try to hurt those bad guys enough so they won't be able to hurt your family members any more. Sometime it takes violence to stop violence.



drop bear said:


> avoiding the fight.


You can run if you only need to defense yourself,. You can't run if you need to defense your family members.


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## drop bear (Oct 13, 2015)

Touch Of Death said:


> Time to scratch that itch on your neck, ya know?



Yeah that sort of thing. The fence. The thinking man.  What worked for me was my hands in between their hands and my head. As their hands moved  mine did and it forced them to go around which gave me a bit of time.

Now I take that one step further an just try to stay out of the pocket. Outfighting if you do sport,reactionary gap if you do street. But it is the same thing.

It is a bit further than a lot of people think.


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## hoshin1600 (Oct 13, 2015)

I would like to point out that the delayed or non existing response is actually very common and natural. It's not somthing we want but it's not just you. Know that it's very common and can be worked on.


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## Dinkydoo (Oct 13, 2015)

"What goes through my mind" depends on the circumstances: 

If it's 3am outside a club and I'm feeling a bit drunk/tired, have just been sucker punched randomly by a guy a good foot taller than me, if I'm lucky enough to collect my marbles before they strike again my instinct would be (and has been) to run. Nobody needs to carry on in a situation with that kind of unpredictability and danger when you're not at your sharpest. 

On the other hand, I've had a (really shady looking) guy approach me on the street and start chatting to me as if I'd just been with him at a nearby train station, I was a bit confused, and instinctively felt something was "a bit off". Without thinking I took one step backwards with my right foot and turned my lead shoulder slightly as he was talking to me, he looked me up and down, said "sorry mate, wrong person" and left. My girlfriend at the time agreed that it could have been a potential mugging and that he totally disengaged conversation after I'd practically shifted into a fighting stance whilst taking a step away from him - he was in my personal space before that, and I felt uncomfortable. 

I'd like to point out that I've had no "self defence" training. I think that frequent training in any martial art will affect how you subconsciously behave in some of these situations.


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## Buka (Oct 13, 2015)

Not really time to think, more like processing information really fast.

But, I do remember one time, a long while ago, thinking "how did I not see this coming?"


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## drop bear (Oct 13, 2015)

I like this video because you can actually see the thought process.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Oct 14, 2015)

When someone tries to rob you, what you may have in your mind at that particular moment can be:

- How much money do I have in my pocket?
- How long does it take me to make that much money?
- Can I afford to lose this money?
- Does he have a knife or a gun?
- Do I have a knife or a gun?
- Does he have friends near by?
- If I start this fight, do I have chance to take off afterward?
- Do I have the right shoes to take off?
- How fast and how far can I run?
- Do I know the environment well enough?
- Can I afford never come back to this location for the rest of my life?
- Can I afford to leave this city after this fight?
- Can I use this opportunity to test my MA skill?
- When was the last time that I had used my MA skill successfully?
- Can I rob him after I have won this fight?
- How much money do I think he may have in his pocket?
- ...


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## RTKDCMB (Oct 14, 2015)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> You can run if you only need to defense yourself,


And if you are confident you can get away.


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## Buka (Oct 14, 2015)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> When someone tries to rob you, what you may have in your mind at that particular moment can be:
> 
> - How much money do I have in my pocket?
> - How long does it take me to make that much money?
> ...



God, I loved that last one.


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## JowGaWolf (Oct 14, 2015)

This is what I do to prepare for a street self-defense.
1. Prepare myself mentally by acknowledging that self-defense is not the same as a street fight.  Often self-defense is deadlier and could involve weapons.
2. Prepare myself mentally to be able to do whatever is needed to defend myself no matter how bad it may hurt the guy I'm fighting.  A bad self-defense mentality would be me being more concerned about me hurting my attacker than my attacker is concerned about hitting me.
3. Prepare myself mentally by acknowledging that I'm going to get hit if fists start flying. I can't be afraid of being punched and kicked.
4. Prepare myself mentally by analyzing a situation.  I don't want all of my conflicts to result in fights, I have to take cues of when I can exit or when the aggressor can exit.  I had a case where the attacker showed signs of wanting to back off.  If I see something like this then I'll let attacker make his exit by not taking a victory lap on his exit by saying "yeah you better walk away."
5.  Every few months I remind myself of what my first sifu told me. About how I should approach my martial arts training. "Strike your enemy, break his nose, and make him drown on his own blood." This is the energy of not only my training, but also for my self-defense if I'm every in a situation where I'm actually having to fight because everything else failed.

I do a lot of physical training for fighting but for self-defense most is mental preparedness. I think what you are experiencing will stop once you are mentally prepared.  You should always run through some worst case "what if" scenarios through you mind.  What if I go to a club and this guy sucker punches me: Think of ways to avoid it, ways to spot someone who might want to sucker punch you, and what to do if it resulted in a fight.  When situations get bad you can instantly tell who was mentally prepared vs the ones who were caught totally by surprise.  

I don't know if this will work for you but it's what I do almost monthly at least 3 or 4 times a month to make sure that I'm mentally prepared.  Also for me hitting a stranger is much easier to do than to hit someone I know.  Once a gain this is mental training on my part.


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## JowGaWolf (Oct 14, 2015)

drop bear said:


> I like this video because you can actually see the thought process.


lol  what thought process?  Dude shouldn't have slapped him with a pizza lol.  In what world do people live in that they would think there would be no consequence for slapping someone in the face with a pizza?  My life experience book clearly states that if I slap someone in the face with a pizza that there's a 99% chance that I'll have to pay the consequence for it.  There's a 85% chance that I'll pay right away.  If I'm in the inner city then there's a 95% chance I'll pay right away. lol.  

Slap a person in the face with a pizza then then tell the person that you just slapped with a pizza to calm down? lol.  That's what happens when you kids don't learn how to think beyond Step: 1


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## JowGaWolf (Oct 14, 2015)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> When someone tries to rob you, what you may have in your mind at that particular moment can be:
> 
> - How much money do I have in my pocket?
> - How long does it take me to make that much money?
> ...


Can I use this opportunity to test my MA skills? lol. I'm forever thinking of this.  I sit and think of the day where I might actually have to use what I've been learning and training on some guy who is just determined that he's going to fight me on the streets.  To unleash the full range of MA with no rules of what can or can't be done in the process of self-defense.


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## drop bear (Oct 15, 2015)

JowGaWolf said:


> lol  what thought process?  Dude shouldn't have slapped him with a pizza lol.  In what world do people live in that they would think there would be no consequence for slapping someone in the face with a pizza?  My life experience book clearly states that if I slap someone in the face with a pizza that there's a 99% chance that I'll have to pay the consequence for it.  There's a 85% chance that I'll pay right away.  If I'm in the inner city then there's a 95% chance I'll pay right away. lol.
> 
> Slap a person in the face with a pizza then then tell the person that you just slapped with a pizza to calm down? lol.  That's what happens when you kids don't learn how to think beyond Step: 1




I agree. I am sure though there will also be the argument that deescalation is always the correct answer. And so the guy who got pizza slapped should have walked away.

But you can see the reaction that goes from disbelief to what do I do here? To screw that.

 I am also impressed by the thought process of the guy who did the pizza slap in that he did not understand where the violent reaction stemmed from. And did not understand why the other guy hit him. All quite an amazing look into two peoples psyche in a kind of awkward social situation.


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## Paul_D (Oct 15, 2015)

Hanzou said:


> So if we just need to read some books for self defense, I guess we don't need to practice any martial arts to learn how to fight and protect ourselves.


You are still confusing fighting with self defence.

If your 80 year old grandmother wants to learn self defence are you going to tell her she's got to join an MMA gym and roll?  Or are you going to teach her the skills to avoid situations in the first place? 

Prevention is better than cure, I refer you back to the children crossing the road analogy.


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## Paul_D (Oct 15, 2015)

For the benefit of Hanzou

This is an example of both Threat Awareness and Target Hardening, two self defence skills.

www.suzylamplugh.org/personal-safety-tips/free-personal-safety-tips/safety-on-the-street/

This is fighting.  It is illegal and has absolutely nothing to do with self defence:-

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2831609/Shocking-footage-Ireland-shows-two-men-violent-bare-knuckle-street-fight-terrified-families.html

Yes, SD still requires some physical skills/techniques of course, but they form only a very small percentage of SD as a whole, the majority is on avoidance and awareness.  Fighting, and proficiency at fighting, should still not be confused with SD or proficiency at SD.


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## JowGaWolf (Oct 15, 2015)

drop bear said:


> I agree. I am sure though there will also be the argument that deescalation is always the correct answer. And so the guy who got pizza slapped should have walked away.
> 
> But you can see the reaction that goes from disbelief to what do I do here? To screw that.
> 
> I am also impressed by the thought process of the guy who did the pizza slap in that he did not understand where the violent reaction stemmed from. And did not understand why the other guy hit him. All quite an amazing look into two peoples psyche in a kind of awkward social situation.


The delayed response was probably his alpha male coming out. He could either risk appearing weak or he could handle his business.  I can't say that I wouldn't have responded the same way (punching the other guy), it would have been an immediate punch right after the pizza slap. That's just "streets" that's in me where something like that could be seen as a weakness.  If a guy can slap me with a pizza and get away with it then I'm just asking for others to take advantage of me in the future. That punch was probably more about saving face than anything else.  There were women standing around him as well which makes the matter even worse.  To be slapped in the face with a pizza, to appear weak in front of women, and to be humiliated all at the same time.... hmmm that would pretty much back me into the corner of "why you gonna make me hit you" lol.

The thing that really amazes me more than the pizza slap is how unaware everyone else is that something happened.  I would have been on high alert so I can get out of the way if things get crazy. They just stand around like no big deal.


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## JowGaWolf (Oct 15, 2015)

Paul_D said:


> For the benefit of Hanzou
> 
> This is an example of both Threat Awareness and Target Hardening, two self defence skills.
> 
> ...


I agree.
Self-defense could include using anything to fend off an attacker. In the U.S. when people think self-defense one of the first things they think about is some kind of weapon with the goal of not getting into a toe-to-toe fight or to end a fight quickly.  Just because someone can't fight doesn't mean that they can't defend themselves.   People have dogs so that the dog can defend them.





just be sure to have a larger dog if that's the plan lol


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## Kung Fu Wang (Oct 15, 2015)

JowGaWolf said:


> Can I use this opportunity to test my MA skills?


One time I walked on the street in Hawaii. A guy tried to pull a girl into his car. The girl was screaming for help. I walked behind that guy, gave him a neck choke. The guy screamed, "Please don't kill me!" (even today, I still can't believe he would say that.) He let go the girl, the girl ran away, I let go my choke, the guy ran toward the opposite direction. I saved the girl and I also got a chance to test my "neck choke". Nobody got hurt. It was a happy ending.


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## Dirty Dog (Oct 15, 2015)

Did you "test drive" his car after he ran away?


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## Kung Fu Wang (Oct 15, 2015)

Dirty Dog said:


> Did you "test drive" his car after he ran away?


I left the scene soon after. Didn't want  to wait for him to come back with a gun.


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## JowGaWolf (Oct 15, 2015)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> I left the scene soon after. Didn't want  to wait for him to come back with a gun.


that is so funny to me because that's how I think lol.  I grew up during a time where it was common for the losing person to leave and come back with a gun. lol.  A lot of times you didn't even have to fight to have that happen.  People losing basketball games and getting clowned on the courts were known to come back with a gun.  And according google it still looks like people are getting shot on basketball courts.


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## Dirty Dog (Oct 15, 2015)

What you describe sounds to me like an attempted kidnapping. Honestly, I'd probably have kept the hold on till he passed out (to make sure he didn't draw a weapon immediately) and then called 911. But circumstances...


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## JowGaWolf (Oct 15, 2015)

Dirty Dog said:


> What you describe sounds to me like an attempted kidnapping. Honestly, I'd probably have kept the hold on till he passed out (to make sure he didn't draw a weapon immediately) and then called 911. But circumstances...


Maybe if the girl didn't run away.


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## Hanzou (Oct 15, 2015)

Paul_D said:


> You are still confusing fighting with self defence.
> 
> If your 80 year old grandmother wants to learn self defence are you going to tell her she's got to join an MMA gym and roll?  Or are you going to teach her the skills to avoid situations in the first place?



If she's serious about self defense, then she would need to learn both in order to be completely safe (though I'd put her in Bjj or Run-fu instead of MMA).

We can have all of the best intentions in the world, but sometimes we simply can't avoid violence when it comes our way.


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## Dirty Dog (Oct 15, 2015)

Hanzou said:


> If she's serious about self defense, then she would need to learn both in order to be completely safe (though I'd put her in Bjj or Run-fu instead of MMA).



I'd recommend a gun club as an even better choice.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Oct 15, 2015)

Dirty Dog said:


> What you describe sounds to me like an attempted kidnapping. Honestly, I'd probably have kept the hold on till he passed out (to make sure he didn't draw a weapon immediately) and then called 911. But circumstances...


That event happened in the summer of 1984 (more than 31 years ago). I was young back then. I may think more as you have suggested if it happens today.

The interested thing is, Was that

- fighting? There were no punches exchanged.
- self-defense? I wasn't defend for myself.

The guy attacked the girl, I attacked the guy. I don't know what I should call this.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Oct 15, 2015)

Hanzou said:


> We can have all of the best intentions in the world, but sometimes we simply can't avoid violence when it comes our way.


Agree! Sometime we just have to take certain risk in our life time. I love the battle speech in the Braveheart movie.

"Fight, you may die. Run, you live, at least for a while, and die in your bed many years from now  ..."






This short film makers me to feel that if I was on that bus and I didn't do anything, I may live for the rest of my life with shame.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Oct 15, 2015)

Dirty Dog said:


> I'd recommend a gun club as an even better choice.


In certain country, gun is not available.


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## Dirty Dog (Oct 15, 2015)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> That event happened in the summer of 1984 (more than 31 years ago). I was young back then. I may think more as you have suggested if it happens today.
> 
> The interested thing is, Was that
> 
> ...



I'd call it defending another, which is also one of those things I've been taught is a Good Thing to do.



Kung Fu Wang said:


> In certain country, gun is not available.



I know. I've lived in such countries. It's sad.


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## Hanzou (Oct 15, 2015)

Dirty Dog said:


> I'd recommend a gun club as an even better choice.



Guns in conjunction with unarmed training, just in case she can't get to the gun.


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## Dirty Dog (Oct 15, 2015)

Hanzou said:


> Guns in conjunction with unarmed training, just in case she can't get to the gun.



There you go.


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## Hanzou (Oct 15, 2015)

Dirty Dog said:


> There you go.



Yeah, I forgot that grannies like to pack heat;


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## Dirty Dog (Oct 15, 2015)

I love my grannie!



But please, tell your granny to get her finger OUT of the trigger guard...


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## JowGaWolf (Oct 15, 2015)

Dirty Dog said:


> I'd recommend a gun club as an even better choice.


Definitely for someone who is 80 years old.  lol


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## tshadowchaser (Oct 15, 2015)

to answer the OP  the only thought that came to me when i was put in the situation of  a street fight was " survive at all costs and if that means putting the other people in the hospital so be it"
Time for reflection on what may have been done to prevent the situation and what else I might have done could/would come after it was all over and i was in a safe place once again.


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## JowGaWolf (Oct 15, 2015)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> Agree! Sometime we just have to take certain risk in our life time. I love the battle speech in the Braveheart movie.
> 
> "Fight, you may die. Run, you live, at least for a while, and die in your bed many years from now  ..."
> 
> ...


Why did I watch that film..now I'm angry lol.  I see a lot of videos from china with that same mentality and it burns me up.  The video below may be what the short film was based on. I don't know how people can just sit by and do nothing.
I removed the video because I forgot there are some youngins on the site.  But if you look up 
" Chinese girl rape the crowd just stood watching no one helps"  on youtube then you will see the video of people not helping. 
Here's one that's has a good ending





When I see people in trouble I think of my own family.  I understand that could be someone I know or someone in my family and I would want someone to help them.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Oct 16, 2015)

JowGaWolf said:


> When I see people in trouble I think of my own family.





Dirty Dog said:


> I'd call it defending another, which is also one of those things I've been taught is a Good Thing to do.



Sometime I though the spirit of "侠(Xia) - take risk to help others" no longer exists in the 21th century. People like you guys bring "hope" back into humanity. You guys posts just make me so happy.


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## Dinkydoo (Oct 16, 2015)

JowGaWolf said:


> Why did I watch that film..now I'm angry lol.  I see a lot of videos from china with that same mentality and it burns me up.  The video below may be what the short film was based on. I don't know how people can just sit by and do nothing.



When I was in China for a bit last year, that kind of "don't-give-a-crap about strangers" attitude was prevalent - I was only in 3 cities within one province (Suzhou, Nanjing and Shanhai), so it may be different elsewhere. My theory is that it's simply because of how populated the place is - I was getting pushed out the way on the undergound, at work waiting for the lift, seeing people let their kids crap in the street, driving motorbikes on the pavement and kids peeing in plantpots within the Shangai TV Tower!!

You'd have to be pretty set in that mindset to ignore an attack as serious as rape. Not that I'm in any way justifying it.


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## Hanzou (Oct 16, 2015)

JowGaWolf said:


> Definitely for someone who is 80 years old.  lol



The sad fact about guns is that they're just as likely (if not more so) to harm someone you don't intend it to harm than some perpetrator trying to take something from you.

Toss in paranoia and mental degradation that occurs with advanced age, and you have a potential recipe for disaster.

No, it's better to teach an elderly person how to fight without guns, so that they don't live in a constant state of fear, or become overly reliant on such weapons for protection.

As for that Bus video, that same thing happens everywhere, not just in Asia. There was a famous case where a man beat a woman to death on a bridge in front of thousands of Americans, and no one did anything.


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## Tony Dismukes (Oct 16, 2015)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> - Can I rob him after I have won this fight?
> - How much money do I think he may have in his pocket?



This reminds me of my wife when she plays video games. "How dare those bandits attack me when they don't have anything worth looting after I've killed them all?"

I tell her that if they had any money they wouldn't be so desperate as to try mugging someone who they  just saw kill a dragon.


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## geezer (Oct 16, 2015)

Dinkydoo said:


> When I was in China for a bit last year, that kind of "don't-give-a-crap about strangers" attitude was prevalent - ...driving motorbikes on the _pavement_ ....



Er...where else would you drive them? 




Ohh. You must be in the UK. Over there I've heard that "pavement" refers to what we call the _sidewalk_.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Oct 16, 2015)

Tony Dismukes said:


> This reminds me of my wife when she plays video games. "How dare those bandits attack me when they don't have anything worth looting after I've killed them all?"
> 
> I tell her that if they had any money they wouldn't be so desperate as to try mugging someone who they  just saw kill a dragon.


One joke that I always like:

- Dear! Don't run in the central park. People always get mobbed. It's not safe there.
- That's why I'm going over there. I'm a bit short on cash.

One night I was walking in the dark street of Rio de Janeiro by myself. One guy stood against the wall. He looked at my watch ($160 Seiko), looked at me, and then turned his head away as if not worthy to rob me. The next evening, I had nothing better to do. I went to the same street, stood against the wall. Not only street people tried to stay away from me as far as they could. Even those stranger guys who stood against the wall soon all left one after another. I then realized that I was either considered as "the bad guy" or an under cover cop.

That life experience taught me that bad guys have fear too. It's not proper to live in fear and  always treat ourselves as pray and treat others as predators.


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## JowGaWolf (Oct 16, 2015)

Hanzou said:


> The sad fact about guns is that they're just as likely (if not more so) to harm someone you don't intend it to harm than some perpetrator trying to take something from you.
> 
> Toss in paranoia and mental degradation that occurs with advanced age, and you have a potential recipe for disaster.
> 
> ...


It's a shame.  After I read this, I did a google search and read a few articles of it happening in the U.S. It turns my stomach. People just standing there doing nothing while someone is being raped.  People like that should have the favor returned.


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## JowGaWolf (Oct 16, 2015)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> One joke that I always like:
> 
> - Dear! Don't run in the central park. People always get mobbed. It's not safe there.
> - That's why I'm going over there. I'm a bit short on cash.
> ...


It would be interesting to see a survey about how people think of themselves when they go out.  Hunter or hunted?


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## Kung Fu Wang (Oct 16, 2015)

JowGaWolf said:


> It would be interesting to see a survey about how people think of themselves when they go out.  Hunter or hunted?


It may depend on whether you are rich or poor, single or married. Old saying said, "Those who wear shoes should never mess with those who is bare foot". You will have more courage if you have less to lose.


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## The Great Gigsy (Oct 17, 2015)

Tony Dismukes said:


> This reminds me of my wife when she plays video games. "How dare those bandits attack me when they don't have anything worth looting after I've killed them all?"
> 
> I tell her that if they had any money they wouldn't be so desperate as to try mugging someone who they  just saw kill a dragon.


Tony tell your wife to kill spiders they always have gold for some reason. In response to the op in my younger years nothing went through my mind when it came to a fight. I just fought as it was the norm in my neighborhood, since then I have matured and based on those instances from my past I can read a situation better. In my time since beginning MA I have only once have to fight and in that case there was no real thought. It was almost like I was on autopilot and my training was driving.


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## Koshiki (Oct 23, 2015)

What goes through your head in a "street fight"?

Honestly, there are, I think, literally only two options.

1. "Weeeeee!"
or
2. "Oh (#&&^*&^(&#(&!!!!!"


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## Tez3 (Oct 23, 2015)

That people don't help in a situation when they 'should' is called the Bystander Effect. 
What Is the Bystander Effect?

Violence often causes people to freeze even when it's not them being attacked so many prefer 'not to see' when someone is being attacked. However there are plenty of cases where people have helped, we've had incidents where in accident, a crowd has moved a bus to free someone trapped underneath and there's others who have gone for an attacker.
It may also be a matter of training, I live near the largest garrison in Europe, we have soldiers everywhere most of the time, shopping, taking kids to school, skiving lol etc so just about every vehicle accident that happens you can guarantee a squaddie or two will be there, organising first aid, directing traffic etc. while the civilians look on. In criminal attacks they will also wade in. It's second nature to do something. I was in the Forces and the training means instead of waiting for others you do the job that needs to be done. It's just instinctive, military training does that and good martial arts and self defence training helps to 'wade in' effectively and as safely as possible.


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## Buka (Oct 23, 2015)

I know it happens, but I've never actually seen an assault (at least a violent one) where bystanders just stood by and watched. I've seen a whole bunch where the public screamed and called for help and a whole lot more where bystanders went into serious action. A couple of times that action being as brutal as the original assault.

Reminiscing sometimes make me smile.


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## The White Ghost (Oct 24, 2015)

In a fight, a true fight to the death, I shut down the part of my brain that thinks and rely solely on the part that acts.  I am also quite thankful to the stupidity of my opponents.  When faced with multiple foes they tend to attack one at a time.


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