# My Daughter Took the SAT today



## Steve (Jun 4, 2011)

Just bragging a little.  Not making any bones about it.

I'm very proud of her.  She's in the 8th grade this year, and the deal is that she could register for AP Biology as a freshman if she scores over 1200 (out of possible 2400 points) on the SAT.  So, this morning, she took the test after only about 1 month of prep time.  No idea how she's scored, but she came out and said, "It was easy.  There was one math question I didn't know, but I think I did pretty good on the rest of them."  Whether she turns  out to be cocky or not, I'm blown away at how poised and confident my 13 year old daughter is.


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## granfire (Jun 4, 2011)

YEAH!!

(around here the kids take some sort of test every year. Pain in the buttocks and counter productive, because they practice it so much, for month on end)

But it is a crazy feeling when our young ones are so grown up!


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## Steve (Jun 4, 2011)

granfire said:


> YEAH!!
> 
> (around here the kids take some sort of test every year. Pain in the buttocks and counter productive, because they practice it so much, for month on end)
> 
> But it is a crazy feeling when our young ones are so grown up!


She's always been petite, so watching her go into the school, a head shorter than anyone else, with two pencils and her calculator was pretty awesome.


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## Blade96 (Jun 4, 2011)

stevebjj said:


> Just bragging a little.  Not making any bones about it.
> 
> I'm very proud of her.  She's in the 8th grade this year, and the deal is that she could register for AP Biology as a freshman if she scores over 1200 (out of possible 2400 points) on the SAT.  So, this morning, she took the test after only about 1 month of prep time.  No idea how she's scored, but she came out and said, "It was easy.  There was one math question I didn't know, but I think I did pretty good on the rest of them."  Whether she turns  out to be cocky or not, I'm blown away at how poised and confident my 13 year old daughter is.



I had to see what a sat is, because we dont have em. 

But i read it and now i say Good teenage girl Woot.


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## Steve (Jun 5, 2011)

Blade96 said:


> I had to see what a sat is, because we dont have em.
> 
> But i read it and now i say Good teenage girl Woot.


It's college admissions stuff.  Most of the kids who take them are either juniors or seniors in high school.  

The impetus for her taking the test is that if she gets above a 1200, not an exceptional score really, the principal at her high school will let her register for AP Biology as a freshman.  AP classes are college equivalencies.  Essentially, she could begin getting college credit as a freshman in high school.  She's really a testament to the idea that some people are born with a drive to excel.  

This kind of stuff is remarkable to me.  AP classes and Running Start are both programs where high schoolers can stay with their peer group but still work at an advanced pace.  I've said before that while public schools have problems, and they're different in every district (some are better than others), I can't complain overall about the quality of the education my kids are receiving.


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## Phenix_Rider (Jun 6, 2011)

2400 points??  I can't get over how much the SAT is changing, or how quickly!


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## Steve (Jun 6, 2011)

Phenix_Rider said:


> 2400 points??  I can't get over how much the SAT is changing, or how quickly!


Basically, they've added a writing section.  30 minutes essay worth 200 to 800 points.  So, instead of Language and Math, there are now three sections bringing the total possible score to 2400.  

What blows me away is that now, in addition to the standard SAT, there are subject tests.  Foreign languages among other things...  specific tests.  I'm sure I'll get to hear more about those in the next couple of years.


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## Carol (Jun 6, 2011)

That's really cool!  Great to hear she is doing well.

My 14 year old nephew is involve in what my sister says is an Early College program...we call College Gateways here.  He is attending high school at a local community college.  It is a 5 year commitment, but when he is finished, he'll have a H.S. diploma and an Associates degree...without further out-of-pocket costs to my sister.


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## Steve (Jun 6, 2011)

That's really cool, Carol.  In our area, the program is called Running Start.  Essentially, the kids go to high school part time and a community college part time.  At the end of their 4 years (presuming they do well), they graduate with a 2 year AA.    The high school also offers a lot of AP classes.  I'm leaning more toward AP because it's taught AT the high school.  I'm of the opinion that social skills are also important, and I like that the AP classes are with her peer group.  On the other hand, taking classes with older people might give her more perspective...  give and take, I guess.  We have a couple years to think about it. 

I hear stories like yours, Carol, and think about my situation here, and while there are problems in the school district I'd like to see addressed, I can't agree with people who doom and gloom about public education. 

Are there areas that need help?  Sure.  But overall, I see a lot of great kids coming out of our local public schools.


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## Carol (Jun 6, 2011)

stevebjj said:


> That's really cool, Carol.  In our area, the program is called Running Start.  Essentially, the kids go to high school part time and a community college part time.  At the end of their 4 years (presuming they do well), they graduate with a 2 year AA.    The high school also offers a lot of AP classes.  I'm leaning more toward AP because it's taught AT the high school.  I'm of the opinion that social skills are also important, and I like that the AP classes are with her peer group.  On the other hand, taking classes with older people might give her more perspective...  give and take, I guess.  We have a couple years to think about it.
> 
> I hear stories like yours, Carol, and think about my situation here, and while there are problems in the school district I'd like to see addressed, I can't agree with people who doom and gloom about public education.
> 
> Are there areas that need help?  Sure.  But overall, I see a lot of great kids coming out of our local public schools.



I understand the gloom and doom. When my oldest nephew and niece (21 and 20, respectively) were in high school, the only option they had was the county high school...which was (still is) one of the worst in the state.  My oldest nephew is a seriously bright, hard-working fellow -- he graduated UNC with a BSBA when he was 20.  He would have seriously benefited from the Early College program but that was not an option when he was there.    He was able to take his AP classes at the community college with the college kids...that was a help.


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## Steve (Jun 6, 2011)

Carol said:


> I understand the gloom and doom. When my oldest nephew and niece (21 and 20, respectively) were in high school, the only option they had was the county high school...which was (still is) one of the worst in the state.  My oldest nephew is a seriously bright, hard-working fellow -- he graduated UNC with a BSBA when he was 20.  He would have seriously benefited from the Early College program but that was not an option when he was there.    He was able to take his AP classes at the community college with the college kids...that was a help.


Thanks, again, Carol.  I believe that there are areas of our country with poor public education.  But there are working models of successful public education, as well.  

When I said, 'doom and gloom' I was talking about people who paint the entire country with one broad stroke.  We've seen this here on these boards, people talking about how broken public education is without acknowledging that for most of our country's kids, the system works pretty well.  

Again, this isn't saying that we're doing everything perfectly, even in areas that are working well.


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## Balrog (Jun 6, 2011)

stevebjj said:


> When I said, 'doom and gloom' I was talking about people who paint the entire country with one broad stroke. We've seen this here on these boards, people talking about how broken public education is without acknowledging that for most of our country's kids, the system works pretty well.


 
I have to disagree with that.  Schools like your daughter's are the exception, not the rule.  Heck, take a look at the Houston Independant School District, one of the largest school districts in the country.  Their flagship school is the High School for the Performing and Visual Arts, and HISD brags about how HSPVA grads consistently score 30 points higher on average on each segment of the SAT.  Sounds really good until you find out that the segment average for HISD is 500, which absolutely sucks.

Your daughter, at 8th grade, will probably outscore the average HISD graduating senior.


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## Steve (Jun 6, 2011)

Balrog said:


> I have to disagree with that.  Schools like your daughter's are the exception, not the rule.  Heck, take a look at the Houston Independant School District, one of the largest school districts in the country.  Their flagship school is the High School for the Performing and Visual Arts, and HISD brags about how HSPVA grads consistently score 30 points higher on average on each segment of the SAT.  Sounds really good until you find out that the segment average for HISD is 500, which absolutely sucks.
> 
> Your daughter, at 8th grade, will probably outscore the average HISD graduating senior.


I've spent some time looking around the National Center for Education Statistics website trying to get some perspective and I've come to a couple of conclusions.  I'm not an expert on this topic, so I'm open to correction.  But for what it's worth, the impression I have is this:

First, we're pretty much right in there with the rest of the world.  Based on the statistics I could find, we're slightly ahead in some areas and slightly behind.  This was a nice summary document that leads into more detailed stats: http://nces.ed.gov/pubsearch/pubsinfo.asp?pubid=2011034

The gist of it is that we're slightly behind in math, but not by much.

Regarding the SAT scores, I don't know what the national average is to give some sense of where Houston falls.  Frankly, though, the stats I'm interested in are drop out percentages, literacy rates and functional math.

After this, I wonder what's available.  When I was a student at Garfield HS in Seattle, I took full responsibility for my failure.  I skipped an average of about 10 classes per week, and spent more time at night school than at day school in order to graduate on time.  Even as they offered at the time a terrific biology program and had all sorts of AP classes and more than its share of national merit scholars, I squeaked through with a 1.7 GPA (technically only possible because night school classes were pass/fail.)  

In an urban area, the challenges are going to be different than in a rural area, and I'd be wary of putting the onus of responsibility only on the school district.  Parents have to share responsibility for student success and at some point, as they approach graduation and adulthood, the students themselves need to step up and accept responsibility for their own success or failure.

Ultimately, the main point I was making before is that the way public schools are set up, they're funded up and down at all levels of government, each operating independently with significant latitude to do things their own way.  There are federal and state guidelines, and there are budget constraints, but from town to town, district to district, public schools in one area looks very different than in another.  Most, however, have good programs available to students who take advantage of them including accelerated learning classes and such.   But saying that public schools are broken or failing is specious.  There are tons and tons of kids graduating each year who are well prepared for college, the military, a trade apprenticeship or whatever their next chapter might be.


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## Steve (Jun 6, 2011)

Looking at the SAT, according to the collegeboard.com website, it looks like the Houston school district is about average, while 530 as a school average would be something to brag about.    Wikipedia's got a pretty good article on the SATs, too.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAT


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## Carol (Jun 6, 2011)

stevebjj said:


> Thanks, again, Carol.  I believe that there are areas of our country with poor public education.  But there are working models of successful public education, as well.
> 
> When I said, 'doom and gloom' I was talking about people who paint the entire country with one broad stroke.  We've seen this here on these boards, people talking about how broken public education is without acknowledging that for most of our country's kids, the system works pretty well.
> 
> Again, this isn't saying that we're doing everything perfectly, even in areas that are working well.



For most?  For some, definitely.  Not sure about most. Its great that your daughter is getting challenged.  My nephew got in to AP classes because he was home schooled all the way through grade 8.  The county wasn't producing students that were doing AP work...that's why a 14 year old had to take his AP classes with 18, 19, and 20+ y.o. college students.

Take a look at these statistics from the City of Boston, 2002.  25% of all students attended a "non-boundary" school -- private, parochial, METCO, charter, etc.  50% of the "non-boundary" students are white.  Less than 20% of the Boston Public School students are white. 

http://www.tbf.org/indicators/education/indicators.asp?fID=210&fname=Children and Youth&id=512#


Is this not cause for some gloom and doom?


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## Ping898 (Jun 6, 2011)

Good for her!  I tutor high school kids for the SAT and it is just sad how many of them can barely crack a 1200/2400....


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## Steve (Jun 6, 2011)

Carol said:


> For most? For some, definitely. Not sure about most. Its great that your daughter is getting challenged. My nephew got in to AP classes because he was home schooled all the way through grade 8. The county wasn't producing students that were doing AP work...that's why a 14 year old had to take his AP classes with 18, 19, and 20+ y.o. college students.
> 
> Take a look at these statistics from the City of Boston, 2002. 25% of all students attended a "non-boundary" school -- private, parochial, METCO, charter, etc. 50% of the "non-boundary" students are white. Less than 20% of the Boston Public School students are white.
> 
> ...


Statistically, most kids are graduating.  Drop out rates are declining.  Again, I'm open to learning more about it, but from what I've seen, national level statistics aren't terrible.  I've already acknowledged that some school districts are in trouble.  But from the stats I've seen on the website I referenced earlier, it seems as though most kids are doing just fine.  

Regarding AP classes, are we talking about the same thing?  AP classes are, at least around here, classes taught at the high school.  It may be that he was in something along the lines of the Running Start program I mentioned where high school age kids can take college courses at their community college.  While AP classes need teachers qualified to teach them and students to teach them to, it's good that he had access to something that allowed him to accellerate.  I'm not sure what your criticism is.  I mean, he DID have a publicly funded alternative.  Didn't he?


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## Steve (Jun 6, 2011)

Ping898 said:


> Good for her! I tutor high school kids for the SAT and it is just sad how many of them can barely crack a 1200/2400....


 According to the wikipedia article, 1200 and below would have been about 15% of those who took the test.  Maybe you get a disproportionate amount of struggling kids.  Would make sense, as the kids who need tutors are usually the ones who seek them out.   

Ultimately, I really only mean for this to be positive.  Don't lose hope.  I have seen the youth of today, and they're not the dissaffected, unengaged, mindless, texting, illiterate drones that some would have us believe that they are.  And by and large, the education they need is there for them if they're being motivated to take it by their teachers, coaches, and parents.  And I believe that most do.


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