# Pilot to TSA: 'No Groping Me and No Naked Photos'



## Bob Hubbard (Oct 17, 2010)

Interesting read.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig11/roberts-m1.1.1.html


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## jks9199 (Oct 17, 2010)

Maybe it's just me... but it seems to me that, should an airline PILOT want to do a lot of damage, they don't need to take anything on board the airplane.  After all, they're on the business side of that locked cockpit door, and the plane is going to go where and do what they tell it to.  Seems like we've seen a scenario kind of like that somewhere previously...


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## Sukerkin (Oct 17, 2010)

Like I ever say (and usually get scolded by one or two members for it because no non-American is ever allowed to say anything bad about America) ... 

... you chaps are not as free as you think you are.  Telling you that you live in the "Land of the Free" becomes ever more a self-evident joke as time goes by.

I don't know whether it is too late to take your country back - I would guess it is without a violent upset for which no-one has the stomach these days (that being because the methods set in place to make such civil war unnecessary have been circumvented).


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## Bob Hubbard (Oct 17, 2010)

The pilot'll probably lose his job over this. Common sense of course and the TSA are unacquainted.   I hope to never have to fly again as I'd honestly trust Moe, Larry, Shemp, Joe, & Curly Joe to secure our airports better than these *** clowns.


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## CanuckMA (Oct 17, 2010)

I remember the pilot's association in Canada making a fuss after some pilots had tweezers and nail clippers confidcated from their shaving kits.

Said one pilot: "First, we're locked in the cockpit already. Second, I don't need the tweezers, there is an axe in the cockpit with me."


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## David43515 (Oct 17, 2010)

As a foreigner, I have to have my fingerprints electronically taken every time I enter Japan. This began about 2 years ago. Never mind that I have no crimminal record that would put me on any lists. Never mind that I`ve lived here almost 8 years. I`m a foreigner, and must submit to fingerprinting on entry. Native Japanese don`t have to.The government says it`s an effort to combat terrorism in Japan......despite the fact that in all Japan`s history the only terrorist act ever to take place was carried out by Japanese. And of course they say that they`re happy to share my fingerprints with any and all law enforcment agencies anywhere in the world. My only choice to avoid this is to avoid entering Japan, which my Japanese wife and 2 Japanese daughters might find troublesome.

The idea that the pilot wasn`t allowed to leave after he refused what was supposedly a voluntary search makes me so mad I want to spit. They never said he did anything to give them any probable cause to detain him other than exercise his choice not to be searched.  So you can`t enter w/o being searched, BUT if you decide not to enter, you can`t leave. Someone shoot me.


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## Bill Mattocks (Oct 18, 2010)

Bob Hubbard said:


> The pilot'll probably lose his job over this. Common sense of course and the TSA are unacquainted.   I hope to never have to fly again as I'd honestly trust Moe, Larry, Shemp, Joe, & Curly Joe to secure our airports better than these *** clowns.



They're not just *** clowns.  They're *evil* *** clowns.  It's important to make the distinction.


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## Empty Hands (Oct 18, 2010)

Bill Mattocks said:


> They're not just *** clowns.  They're *evil* *** clowns.  It's important to make the distinction.



No, they're not.  They are a group of mostly unskilled, low wage workers trying to support themselves and their families.  Some abuse their authority, as some cops or some teachers or some martial arts instructors abuse their authority - yet we do not call teachers evil.  The evil is institutional, not personal.  That institutional evil was furthermore called for and supported by the American public.  We got what we voted for.


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## punisher73 (Oct 18, 2010)

Sukerkin said:


> Like I ever say (and usually get scolded by one or two members for it because no non-American is ever allowed to say anything bad about America) ...
> 
> ... you chaps are not as free as you think you are. Telling you that you live in the "Land of the Free" becomes ever more a self-evident joke as time goes by.
> 
> I don't know whether it is too late to take your country back - I would guess it is without a violent upset for which no-one has the stomach these days (that being because the methods set in place to make such civil war unnecessary have been circumvented).


 
I read somewhere (not sure where) that the US has more laws on the books than any other country.  We also incarcerate more per capita than any other country.

I think one of the biggest problems is that with this many "freedoms", there comes a point of personal responsibility.  Just because you CAN do something, doesn't mean you SHOULD do something.

It's frustrating when common sense gets over ridden by "the law".


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## punisher73 (Oct 18, 2010)

David43515 said:


> As a foreigner, I have to have my fingerprints electronically taken every time I enter Japan. This began about 2 years ago. Never mind that I have no crimminal record that would put me on any lists. Never mind that I`ve lived here almost 8 years. I`m a foreigner, and must submit to fingerprinting on entry. Native Japanese don`t have to.The government says it`s an effort to combat terrorism in Japan......despite the fact that in all Japan`s history the only terrorist act ever to take place was carried out by Japanese. And of course they say that they`re happy to share my fingerprints with any and all law enforcment agencies anywhere in the world. My only choice to avoid this is to avoid entering Japan, which my Japanese wife and 2 Japanese daughters might find troublesome.
> 
> The idea that the pilot wasn`t allowed to leave after he refused what was supposedly a voluntary search makes me so mad I want to spit. They never said he did anything to give them any probable cause to detain him other than exercise his choice not to be searched. So you can`t enter w/o being searched, BUT if you decide not to enter, you can`t leave. *Someone shoot me*.


 
don't give them any more bad ideas.


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## Flea (Oct 18, 2010)

David43515 said:


> As a foreigner, I have to have my fingerprints electronically taken every time I enter Japan. This began about 2 years ago.



Not so.  I lived in Japan from 1984-1987, and my whole family (including 11 year old me) had to get fingerprinted too.  We also had to carry a particular ID at all times (though as a child I was exempt from that.)  Once my Dad and I were out to dinner and a cop randomly stopped us on the street asking him to produce that ID card.  When he realized he'd spaced it and left it at home, we got dragged down to the local precinct and they called my mom to confirm that we were indeed not fugitives or gaijin wetbacks.  (My own sarcasm here, not a slam on Mexicans.  :uhyeah: )  I called it harassment then, and I still do some 30 years later.

Even at 11 I thought it was asinine and intrusive.  As I recall, they also made third-generation descendants of Korean immigrants get prints and that stupid ID too.  I don't know whether they still do that, but it was a big controversy then.


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## Bob Hubbard (Oct 18, 2010)

In the US the only people who don't need to carry ID are US Citizens. Everyone else needs to have it.(Short version).


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## Bill Mattocks (Oct 18, 2010)

Empty Hands said:


> No, they're not.  They are a group of mostly unskilled, low wage workers trying to support themselves and their families.  Some abuse their authority, as some cops or some teachers or some martial arts instructors abuse their authority - yet we do not call teachers evil.  The evil is institutional, not personal.  That institutional evil was furthermore called for and supported by the American public.  We got what we voted for.



I did not vote for the creation of a Department of Homeland Defense, nor for the TSA.  I don't recall there being a vote.


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## Empty Hands (Oct 18, 2010)

Bill Mattocks said:


> I did not vote for the creation of a Department of Homeland Defense, nor for the TSA.  I don't recall there being a vote.



Was everyone responsible voted out in 2004?

Hey, I hate the security theater too.  I think it all should be abolished, even the pre-2001 stuff.  I don't imagine for a minute though that the majority of Americans share my views.  Everyone I've heard talk about airport security in real life (instead of internet message boards) is fully supportive, and some wanted more.


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## Steve (Oct 18, 2010)

Bill Mattocks said:


> I did not vote for the creation of a Department of Homeland Defense, nor for the TSA.  I don't recall there being a vote.


Maybe a better way to say it is, "Well, that's what we get for living in a representative democracy."   We didn't vote on the issue, but we voted for the people who voted on the issue.  

What chaps my hide about this whole thing is that none of this actually makes the airports any safer.  It's all smoke and mirrors.  I wouldn't mind the indignity if it actually made a difference.


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## MJS (Oct 18, 2010)

Bob Hubbard said:


> Interesting read.
> 
> http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig11/roberts-m1.1.1.html


 
Hmmm...IMO, this guy is an *******!  Why?  Because everyone on the plane should be subject to the same security process.  How do I know that the pilot, stewardess, etc., are not some nutjobs, who want to blow up the plane.  

Yes, I know, I know....we could say the guys 'rights' are being violated, etc, etc., but it irks the hell out of me, when you see guys like this, who feel it necessary to 'prove a point', instead of just going thru the routine, and dealing with it later.


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## Bob Hubbard (Oct 18, 2010)

I think plane staff, and all those who potentially have access to the plane, should be under strict security guidelines, which means, if there's any reason NOT to trust them, you don't give them access period.  Checking them for a nail file when they could use the fire axe on the co-pilot then fly into the ground doesn't help.  Then again, how much checking do the baggage goons get?  We already know the TSA hiring guidelines are a joke......


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## MJS (Oct 18, 2010)

Bob Hubbard said:


> I think plane staff, and all those who potentially have access to the plane, should be under strict security guidelines, which means, if there's any reason NOT to trust them, you don't give them access period. Checking them for a nail file when they could use the fire axe on the co-pilot then fly into the ground doesn't help. Then again, how much checking do the baggage goons get? We already know the TSA hiring guidelines are a joke......


 
Well, thats a good point.  I mean, we see these guys take the bags, but is anyone watching the guys who put the bags on the plane?  The handful of times that I fly, I've never had any baggage issues.  (Hopefully I didn't just screw myself by saying that...lol)  But when you think about it, how do you know someone isn't tampering with something down there?


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## Bill Mattocks (Oct 18, 2010)

stevebjj said:


> Maybe a better way to say it is, "Well, that's what we get for living in a representative democracy."   We didn't vote on the issue, but we voted for the people who voted on the issue.
> 
> What chaps my hide about this whole thing is that none of this actually makes the airports any safer.  It's all smoke and mirrors.  I wouldn't mind the indignity if it actually made a difference.



Agreed.


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## Bill Mattocks (Oct 18, 2010)

Empty Hands said:


> Hey, I hate the security theater too.  I think it all should be abolished, even the pre-2001 stuff.  I don't imagine for a minute though that the majority of Americans share my views.  Everyone I've heard talk about airport security in real life (instead of internet message boards) is fully supportive, and some wanted more.



I wanted the Coast Guard to take over the airport security detail.  I wrote up a dedicated paper on the issue and went way out of my way to get it to my elected representatives, but it went nowhere.  The Democrats wanted the TSA and the Republicans wanted more private security companies.  They settled on TSA with a promise of no unionization.  Snort.


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## Bob Hubbard (Oct 18, 2010)

Check Youtube sometime for hidden camera stuff on baggage.  I'd trust UPS more.


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## Carol (Oct 18, 2010)

Bob Hubbard said:


> Check Youtube sometime for hidden camera stuff on baggage.  I'd trust UPS more.



Well, with the bag fees that some airlines are charging, it could very well be cheaper to use UPS or FedEx 2-day or 3-day to ship your belongings to a hotel to arrive the day before or the day of your arrival, and then ship back home.  

I did this when I was traveling to NYC on a regular basis, usually because my carry on bag was filled with telecom hardware...and getting from LGA in Queens to the job site in Manhattan juggling a suitcase full of hardware and a suitcase full of clothes, while in a skirt suit and heels was...not something I could do in a dignified manner.  :lol:

Just want to make sure the hotel knows about it ahead of time


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## Ken Morgan (Oct 18, 2010)

Carol said:


> Well, with the bag fees that some airlines are charging, it could very well be cheaper to use UPS or FedEx 2-day or 3-day to ship your belongings to a hotel to arrive the day before or the day of your arrival, and then ship back home.
> 
> I did this when I was traveling to NYC on a regular basis, usually because my carry on bag was filled with telecom hardware...and getting from LGA in Queens to the job site in Manhattan juggling a suitcase full of hardware and a suitcase full of clothes, while in a skirt suit and heels was...not something I could do in a dignified manner. :lol:
> 
> Just want to make sure the hotel knows about it ahead of time


 
You just know its going to be one hell of a weekend when the woman sends all her electronic toys to the hotel in advance . :angel:


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## jks9199 (Oct 18, 2010)

Bob Hubbard said:


> I think plane staff, and all those who potentially have access to the plane, should be under strict security guidelines, which means, if there's any reason NOT to trust them, you don't give them access period.  Checking them for a nail file when they could use the fire axe on the co-pilot then fly into the ground doesn't help.  Then again, how much checking do the baggage goons get?  We already know the TSA hiring guidelines are a joke......


You really don't want to know about the baggage handlers...  Really you don't.

There are plenty of bangers working there, for example.


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## Carol (Oct 18, 2010)

Ken Morgan said:


> You just know its going to be one hell of a weekend when the woman sends all her electronic toys to the hotel in advance &#8230;. :angel:



No darlin, my clothes and personal effects like cosmetics were shipped in advance.  The electronics stayed with me on carry-on.  I didn't trust 'em to anyone else


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## Carol (Oct 18, 2010)

jks9199 said:


> You really don't want to know about the baggage handlers...  Really you don't.
> 
> There are plenty of bangers working there, for example.



Yup.



> This week marked 18 years since the body of Susan Taraskiewicz, 27, a  baggage handling supervisor for Northwest Airlines, was found in the  trunk of her car 36 hours after she went out to get sandwiches for  coworkers. One of the first female supervisors in the division, Susan  was beaten, stabbed and strangled.


http://bostonjustice.blogspot.com/2010/09/who-killed-susan-taraskiewicz-case.html


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## David43515 (Oct 19, 2010)

Flea said:


> Not so. I lived in Japan from 1984-1987, and my whole family (including 11 year old me) had to get fingerprinted too. We also had to carry a particular ID at all times (though as a child I was exempt from that.) Once my Dad and I were out to dinner and a cop randomly stopped us on the street asking him to produce that ID card. When he realized he'd spaced it and left it at home, we got dragged down to the local precinct and they called my mom to confirm that we were indeed not fugitives or gaijin wetbacks. (My own sarcasm here, not a slam on Mexicans. :uhyeah: ) I called it harassment then, and I still do some 30 years later.
> 
> Even at 11 I thought it was asinine and intrusive. As I recall, they also made third-generation descendants of Korean immigrants get prints and that stupid ID too. I don't know whether they still do that, but it was a big controversy then.


 
You`re right Flea, if you`re going to stay here longer than 90 days you have to carry your Alien Registration Card at all times, and until a few years ago that had your fingerprints. But if you were a short-term tourist you just carried your passport and you didn`t have to be fingerprinted until 2 years ago. Now, if you`re not Japanese you are electronically fingerprinted  on arrival as you go through customs. 

And yes, many Koreans whose families were forced to come here in the 1920`s as forced laborers stayed after the war. Neither they or thier decendants are elligable for citizenship. If they marry a Japanese thier children 1/2 Japanese kids are citizens. But if you are Korean on both sides you`re out of luck. I had a friend years ago whose family had been here for 4 generations, and she still had to carry an Alien Registeration Card despite having been born and raised in Japan. It`s kind of like saying that any black whose anscestors were brought to America against thier will aren`t citizens.So despite having lived in the US for generations they`d still have to go down and register with immigration every few years.


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## David43515 (Oct 19, 2010)

MJS said:


> Hmmm...IMO, this guy is an *******! Why? Because everyone on the plane should be subject to the same security process. How do I know that the pilot, stewardess, etc., are not some nutjobs, who want to blow up the plane.
> 
> Yes, I know, I know....we could say the guys 'rights' are being violated, etc, etc., but it irks the hell out of me, when you see guys like this, who feel it necessary to 'prove a point', instead of just going thru the routine, and dealing with it later.


 
I can`t agree. If the pilot wants to blow up the plane, what does he need to bring? All he`s got to do is lock the door to the cockpit (oh wait that part`s already done) and fly it into the ground. If there`s any doubt as to the pilot`s reliability, he shouldn`t be flying planes. Period. If he was a bus driver or a train conductor and refused to be searched each day before his shift would you feel the same way? There have been alot of school shootings. should the teachers and principal be searched each morning before class? If so, isn`t a metal detector enough?

I don`t think he did anything to "prove a point". He just decided that he didn`t want to put up with something. Just because something is routine doesn`t make it right. Besides, just because they have these image scanners doesn`t mean they`re effective. They`ve had x-rays looking into our bags for years and they can look right at a bomb w/o recognizing it. they only things they really pick out are knives and guns which could be found easier w/ metal detectors. Dogs can smell explosives easier than humans can see them, and they cheaper than image scanners and mobile.


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## chaos1551 (Oct 19, 2010)

The U.S. government is turning me into a libertarian.


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## Bob Hubbard (Oct 19, 2010)

It's turning me into someone looking at the possibility of moving to a free nation. Sadly I don't yet meet the citizenship requirements for New Zealand.


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## Carol (Oct 19, 2010)

Bob Hubbard said:


> It's turning me into someone looking at the possibility of moving to a free nation. Sadly I don't yet meet the citizenship requirements for New Zealand.



You could always move to a free state


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## Ken Morgan (Oct 19, 2010)

Bob Hubbard said:


> It's turning me into someone looking at the possibility of moving to a free nation. Sadly I don't yet meet the citizenship requirements for New Zealand.


 
Dude, you're 10 minutes from a country more free then the USA....simply cross the border....

http://www.heritage.org/index/ranking.aspx


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## Bob Hubbard (Oct 19, 2010)

NH still has to deal with Uncle Comerade Sam, and it's cold in Canada.

I need to win the lotto and buy a small tropical island, and defend it with my private army of robot ninja assassins.


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## Empty Hands (Oct 20, 2010)

Bob Hubbard said:


> I need to win the lotto and buy a small tropical island, and defend it with my private army of robot ninja assassins.



No robots, but I do have some Fleshy Minions I can sell you at a very reasonable price...


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