# Chung Moo Doe, Oom yung doe, or whatever it is now called



## superdave (Feb 16, 2002)

:lol:  :rofl: :fart: check this out 

It seems that there is alot of information out there about our favorite SUPER HERO..."IRON" KIM!!
Take a look at the link that I posted above, there seems to be some mighty tall tales to be told here. 

My favorite sections are "the extraordinary achievements of grandmaster kim" and "true martial arts movements and fabricated movements". Also check out the FAQ section. There you will find pricing for various courses and such. They also claim to be able cram ten years of knowledge into someone's head in as little as three years.

Maybe this guy could dig up Count Dante and go on a world tour, doing flying side kicks off of 30 story buildings. But, then again I think that even Dante would'nt stoop this low.

SuperDave


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## GouRonin (Feb 16, 2002)

_**singing**_
I can be your hero baby!! Woo! Ah ha ha ha! :lol:


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## nathan_sau (May 2, 2002)

He forgot to mention tha he can also shoot lasers from his fingertips and bolts of lightning from his ****...


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## Kempojujutsu (May 2, 2002)

I have been around Martial Arts  for 11 years now and have never hear, seen, read anything about this art. Did they get their name from the three Stooges. Maybe the Master Kim Techniques came from watching late night tv reruns of the Three Stooges.
Bob Thomas


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## Damian Mavis (May 2, 2002)

hahahaha omg haha   anybody else notice that the camera man is floating in mid air since Iron Kim is jumping off a building and the corner of the roof that is visible is taken from an angle suggesting the camera man can fly!

I'm in tears this is so funny!  If your going to run a scam then get some intelligent people to come up with good ideas and run a proper scam for crying out loud! haha


Damian Mavis
Honour TKD


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## Klondike93 (May 3, 2002)

(grabing forehead)

Oh brother, not this loser again  

This guy probably couldn't pour water out of a bucket with the instructions engraved on the side, but he sure can sucker people with all that crap!!

Maybe we could talk the ninjitsu guys into a little assasination stuff on this loser  


:asian:


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## Seig (May 3, 2002)

Damn, I thought we put a stop to this guy.  Too bad I'm not still in Florida.......


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## auxprix (Jul 4, 2004)

I know this thread is old, but I thought I'd resurect it to post these links. I highly recommend at least skimming them.

http://www.rickross.com/reference/chung/chung3.html
http://www.freedomofmind.com/resourcecenter/groups/c/chung/

I came across this art while looking for traditional kung fu in my area. I wanted to find out a bit more, so I looked at one of their websites. What I saw was something that looked alot like traditional kung fu. I was a little interested, but thanks to some of the threads on martialtalk, I looked into it a little deeper. Thank god I didn't even invest the time to look into this school!

I can't believe that schools are even around after these events. Has anyone had any experience what-so-ever (even if it was just talking with a practitioner) with this frivilous art?


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## The Kai (Jul 5, 2004)

We just got one of theese schools in town,  saw a demo and thought it was crap. Always figured if people are dumb enough to fall for the Super karate guy stuff then they get what they deserve.  However the cult stuff is troubling.


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## Kevin Walker (Jul 8, 2004)

Kempojujutsu said:
			
		

> I have been around Martial Arts for 11 years now and have never hear, seen, read anything about this art. Did they get their name from the three Stooges. Maybe the Master Kim Techniques came from watching late night tv reruns of the Three Stooges.
> Bob Thomas


Hi Guys,

There is a good Chung Moo Doe school/studio located in Somerville, Massachusetts (about 4 miles outside of Boston) at 260 Elm Street, Somerville, MA. 02144 (617) 629-5888. 

I have sat and watched their classes, and watched their video tape of some of their seminars, demonstrations, and tournament. On first impression it seems to be just another Kuk Sul Do style of Korean martial art, or just another integrated Korean hand-to-hand combat method. Instead of a heavily based Japanese linear Zen Karate-do methodology, Chung Moo Doe appears to be heavily influenced by Chinese Kung-fu and Taoist philosophy.

As typical of the synergistic Koreans, Chung Moo Doe incorporates: Archery, knife throwing, strikes & kicks, Politics & classical literature (Confuscius & Menicius), hunting & fishing, body throws, playing music, swordsmanship, combat in water while swimming, to achieve a fully integrated martial art. The highest rank achieved is called: "Sun Bi" Brave and intelligent warrior!

Chung Moo Doe is a legitimate martial art - and to their credit they strive for the holistic man, and not just a muscle bound winning machine.

Iron Kim making controlled jumps off of rooftops was demonstrating the Taoist principles of internal strength. Don't forget, when the average human being falls off, or jumps off, a building, death is the direct result from massive internal hemorage (bleeding to death) due to arteries and veins being sheered in half and internal organs being split from the impact of landing on the sidewalk or other hard object (or poor pedestrian). 

Iron Kim was demonstrating his mastery of internal strength due to his Chung Moo Doe training because he suffered no internal injuries from a 30 foot drop to the ground(good for him).

So lets give credit where credit is due; and I don't think the 'Three Stooges' had anything to do with this particular unique martial art.


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## Kevin Walker (Jul 8, 2004)

auxprix said:
			
		

> I know this thread is old, but I thought I'd resurect it to post these links. I highly recommend at least skimming them.
> 
> http://www.rickross.com/reference/chung/chung3.html
> http://www.freedomofmind.com/resourcecenter/groups/c/chung/
> ...


Hi Guys,

I just read the two links of 'complaints' against Chung Moo Doe, and it reminds me of how the martial arts used to be taught here in Boston in the 1960s, according to the Old School. Very tough, and very demanding - don't forget that the martial arts is a way of life! And it seems that is how Iron Kim is approaching to teach his Chung Moo Doe. Americans today are very weak and soft as compared to the mid 50s & 60s and cannot accept the same discipline my buddies and I did as kids (there was corporal punishment in Boston schools until 1967 for example). 

The Old School in Asia is where one had to apply and be accepted as an indentured servant to the master (no, indentured servitude is not slavery!) and then you had to emmulate the master in all manners! 

As far am I'm concerned, Martial Arts training is elite training; and alcoholics, drug addicts, and troubled children have no business in the martial arts until their problems are solved by the appropriate social worker. Martial arts are not group therapy!

The cult aspect of Martial arts is common in the old school of training in Asia, and Iron Kim is probably just applying the same values he grew up with to Americans.


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## auxprix (Jul 8, 2004)

Now, I embrace the differences within the martial arts community. I am aware that some people want a very spiritual experience. I have absolutely no problem with this. What I do have a problem with is the deification of the headmaster.

I, for one, believe the picture displayed on the site to be fake. As one person mentioned, the camera man appears to be floating in midair to take the shot. Now I once worked in construction. I've worked on the edge of some very tall structures without any protective harness. Untill you've done this, you can not really appreciate the hight of 4 stories, let alone 11!

Anyone would be crazy to jump, as they claim, an 11 story building! I have alot of appreciation for the asian religions, and I do think that practice in them can lead to levels of self awareness and body control that is beyond our experience and understanding (especially the zen buddhists' uncanny ability to predict the hour of their death up to weeks beforehand). But I cannot accept that anyone can fall that height unharmed.

One other thing, the only place I can see documentation of the jumping off building stunt is on the Oom yung doe websites. I would assume that such a feat would recieve better coverage.


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## Kevin Walker (Jul 8, 2004)

auxprix said:
			
		

> Now, I embrace the differences within the martial arts community. I am aware that some people want a very spiritual experience. I have absolutely no problem with this. What I do have a problem with is the deification of the headmaster.
> 
> I, for one, believe the picture displayed on the site to be fake. As one person mentioned, the camera man appears to be floating in midair to take the shot. Now I once worked in construction. I've worked on the edge of some very tall structures without any protective harness. Untill you've done this, you can not really appreciate the hight of 4 stories, let alone 11!
> 
> ...


Hi,

I believe the photo of Iron Kim could have been taken with the use of a camera boom, as is constantly used in Hollywood to get panning or wide angle shots, and used by professional photographers.

Also, I am a rigger by trade, in April of 2000 I fell 40 feet straight head first to a wooden fender separating the pier from a barge when scaffolding let go beneath my feet, I bounced off, then I plunged about twelve feet into Boston Harbor. The cold water revived me and I stroked to the surface and pulled myself onto the wooden fender. My left ankle ached.

The guys took me to the Tufts New England Medical Center emergency room where I got x-rayed and found to have a broken left foot. The doctor refused to believe I fell 40 feet because he said that height would cause a fatality. He believed me only after the eyewitnesses who brought me in told the doctor what happened. I was also covered in lacerations as I tried to slow my self using the sides of the building on my way downward. I was told to take three days off work but I got off the table, went back to work, and finished my eight hour day and rest of the week (old school).

I truly believe that my 12+ straight years of Judo, with constant ukemi (falling experience, plus some skydiving at Orange, Massachusetts), had incidentally toughened up my innards to the point where a 40 foot drop was not fatal. In fact, I did a right-shoulder roll just as I hit the damn wooden float (called a 'camel', as hard as concrete), and got away with just a heavily sprained left ankle, plus a zillion cuts and scrapes.

So the photograph and description of Iron Kim going off a building struck a note of recognition with me. Yes, it is possible to do that, and apparently, one can purposely train to do it as well.

Yet, it might not receive wide coverage since stunts haven't been newsworthy since Harry Houdini.


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## auxprix (Jul 9, 2004)

Wow, great story. I also practice Judo, so I can appreciate the benefits of a good ukemi (it saved me once falling off a ladder. Not so spectacular though, it was a height of 8-10 feet. Still hurt like hell:erg: ).

I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree though. On the website, it claims that he jumped off an 11 story and an 8 story building. Personally, I can't fathom anyone falling between 110+ feet unscathed. Nor do I believe that anyone would attempt this. Lastly, nor do I believe that, had someone attempted it, all that would exist as proof was one photograph that doesn't put the hight into perspective.

I realize that it is your opinion, though, and I respect that. It is yours to have and I will not try to sway you on this matter.


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## deadhand31 (Jul 9, 2004)

Kevin Walker said:
			
		

> Hi Guys,
> 
> There is a good Chung Moo Doe school/studio located in Somerville, Massachusetts (about 4 miles outside of Boston) at 260 Elm Street, Somerville, MA. 02144 (617) 629-5888.
> 
> ...



Dude!! Iron Kim admitted in court that the lineage he touted was a fraud!!! He was a janitor from Korea who was talented in Tae Kwon Do, but nothing else. He's a phony. Fraud. Fake. Matchstick man. Carpet bagger. Snake oil salesman.

Not to mention their prices. Just to be an official Oom yung doe school, you gotta shell out $2500 a month. I hope they give their franchisees (yes, it's a franchise!!) a kiss before they bend them over the table, preceding things most often seen in a prison shower room.

But I do agree, it's a very deadly art. Anybody who uses it on the street gets their asses handed to them on a silver platter.

 :boing2:


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## Kevin Walker (Jul 9, 2004)

deadhand31 said:
			
		

> Dude!! Iron Kim admitted in court that the lineage he touted was a fraud!!! He was a janitor from Korea who was talented in Tae Kwon Do, but nothing else. He's a phony. Fraud. Fake. Matchstick man. Carpet bagger. Snake oil salesman.
> 
> Not to mention their prices. Just to be an official Oom yung doe school, you gotta shell out $2500 a month. I hope they give their franchisees (yes, it's a franchise!!) a kiss before they bend them over the table, preceding things most often seen in a prison shower room.
> 
> ...


Hi,

I am not doubting a single thing you just wrote.  Even if Iron Kim is a charlatan, and there are tons of them out there, this particular Oom yung doe franchise in Davis Square, Somerville, MA. has done a good job of establishing a decent martial art practice.

I fully admit that my only exposure to Chung Moo Doe (Sp?) is this one studio, but I have visited it several times and liked what I saw.  I saw decent technique practiced by serious students taught by dedicated instructors.  The demonstrations were well organized, and the art itself seemed no more esoteric than some Chinese styles in the Kung fu kwoons I've visited in Boston's Chinatown.

1.  I liked the  fact that it was a Korean style not influenced by the linear karate-do methodology.
2.  I liked the fact that it has a Taoist based viewpoint and not a Buddhist based view point.
3.  But it did seem just like another Kuk Sool Do Korean style.

But if Iron Kim only has a Tae Kwon Do background, how did all the very sophisticated non-Tae Kwon Do techniques get integrated into his style?  Obviously some of his students and instructors have taken it a step further past Iron Kim, just as Tae Kwon Do has evolved away from General Choi's vision.

Thanks for pointing out Iron Kim's background, being a janitor is not that bad a job.


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## Kevin Walker (Jul 9, 2004)

auxprix said:
			
		

> Wow, great story. I also practice Judo, so I can appreciate the benefits of a good ukemi (it saved me once falling off a ladder. Not so spectacular though, it was a height of 8-10 feet. Still hurt like hell:erg: ).
> 
> I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree though. On the website, it claims that he jumped off an 11 story and an 8 story building. Personally, I can't fathom anyone falling between 110+ feet unscathed. Nor do I believe that anyone would attempt this. Lastly, nor do I believe that, had someone attempted it, all that would exist as proof was one photograph that doesn't put the hight into perspective.
> 
> I realize that it is your opinion, though, and I respect that. It is yours to have and I will not try to sway you on this matter.


Hi,

You're right in that the 11 story & 8 story leap is probably mythical; just as Mas Oyama killing a bull with a single reverse punch to the head.  As you know, Mas Oyama chopped off the bull's horns with a shuto (karate chop) then proceeded to twist the animals head cowboy fashion until it's neck broke.  So things get exaggerated in the story telling.

I'm interpreting Iron Kim's claim as allegory, equivalent to some of the ancient Taoist master's of China, where an elderly kung fu master kills a leaping tiger with 'inner strength', etc. etc.

I'm sure Iron Kim did something to the extent of leaping off a building, though it might have been a hut.

But again, the Chung Oom Doe (sp?) studio outside of Boston (Somerville) struck me, upon several visits, as a serious and valid martial art school - though it may be heavily based on Kuk Sul Do.  Thanks!


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## The Kai (Jul 9, 2004)

From what I seen in demo's the forms look largley well"made-up".  What they were calling Bag-wa was really out there!  I'm not a kung fu guy so it is not my area but I have seen a little bit.


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## deadhand31 (Jul 9, 2004)

The Kai said:
			
		

> From what I seen in demo's the forms look largley well"made-up".  What they were calling Bag-wa was really out there!  I'm not a kung fu guy so it is not my area but I have seen a little bit.



Their bagwa IS made up. If you try fighting in their "bagwa sparring stance", you won't be able to get a kick or punch off without seriously telegraphing your moves. 
I saw them do a demo. Alot of their stuff will wow those who are quite ignorant of the arts, but to those who know what they are talking about, they are exposed real quick. Obviously, their crap has to look good to at least some people, otherwise noone would pay their hefty fees.

I'd like to see them in an open tournament. It could be quite fun.  :uhyeah:

As for a janitor not being a bad job, I agree. Everybody has to make a living. But if a guy lies about his lineage, saying he has devoted his life to "True Martial Arts Study", and in fact had spent more concern on unclogging a toilet, I tend to be rather wary of any of his "Moo Doe" knowledge.


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## Kevin Walker (Jul 10, 2004)

deadhand31 said:
			
		

> Their bagwa IS made up. If you try fighting in their "bagwa sparring stance", you won't be able to get a kick or punch off without seriously telegraphing your moves.
> I saw them do a demo. Alot of their stuff will wow those who are quite ignorant of the arts, but to those who know what they are talking about, they are exposed real quick. Obviously, their crap has to look good to at least some people, otherwise noone would pay their hefty fees.
> 
> I'd like to see them in an open tournament. It could be quite fun. :uhyeah:
> ...


Hi,

I just came from the Chung Moo Doe studio in Somerville, MA. today (July 10th @ 4:00pm) and spoke extensively with one of the instructors, a young Korean/American.

Again, he was an enthusiastic and skilled practitioner, very happy and proud of Chung Moo Doe, and quite the businessman.

Similar to the legacy left behind by Fred Villari and his United Studios of Self-Defence in the Boston area, Iron Kim may be a royal fake, but his students are gallantly carrying on and expanding his martial arts dream.  

In fact, some of Iron Kim's students may very well have surpassed their master in ability just as, I'm sure,  many of Fred Villari's students have made a quantum leap past him.  I have visited the United Studios of Self Defense years ago, and it did give a student a place to start, and a legitimate black belt a paycheck to teach!

From the generous demonstration presented to me by the Chung Moo Doe students, Chung Moo Doe is obviously heavily influenced by the circular techniques of Chinese Kung fu, and philosophically by Taoism;  rather than the linear techniques of Karate and Buddhist philosophy, all from the Korean perspective.

Again, I liked what I saw at this particular Chung Moo Doe studio.


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## deadhand31 (Jul 11, 2004)

Kevin Walker said:
			
		

> Hi,
> 
> I just came from the Chung Moo Doe studio in Somerville, MA. today (July 10th @ 4:00pm) and spoke extensively with one of the instructors, a young Korean/American.
> 
> ...



The only dream that Shyster Kim had involved the emptying of wallets. He is not a pioneer by any definition, he is simply a scam artist. The only thing he was qualified to teach was Tae Kwon Do, if that. 



			
				Kevin Walker said:
			
		

> In fact, some of Iron Kim's students may very well have surpassed their master in ability just as, I'm sure,  many of Fred Villari's students have made a quantum leap past him.



They made a leap past Shyster Kim? probably by doing something unlike him, and being honest!!! 




			
				Kevin Walker said:
			
		

> From the generous demonstration presented to me by the Chung Moo Doe students, Chung Moo Doe is obviously heavily influenced by the circular techniques of Chinese Kung fu, and philosophically by Taoism;  rather than the linear techniques of Karate and Buddhist philosophy, all from the Korean perspective.



Alot of the chung moo doe circular patterns MAY have been influenced by Kung Fu, but it probably came down to what Shyster Kim thought could pass as Kung Fu, and dupe people into believing it. It would be rather hard to have a genuine influence if the guy who invented the art never had instruction in any of the arts he claimed to teach. Could this be one good Chung moo doe school that has wisely abandoned all of the Chung Moo Doe teachings, and instead teaches a genuine martial art? Doubtful, but hey, stranger things have happened.


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## Kevin Walker (Jul 11, 2004)

deadhand31 said:
			
		

> The only dream that Shyster Kim had involved the emptying of wallets. He is not a pioneer by any definition, he is simply a scam artist. The only thing he was qualified to teach was Tae Kwon Do, if that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, similar and equally strange things do happen, like the students from the former United Studios of Self Defense turning out to be decent martial artists, or the same for student's of Toyko Joe's!


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## deadhand31 (Jul 11, 2004)

Kevin Walker said:
			
		

> Yes, similar and equally strange things do happen, like the students from the former United Studios of Self Defense turning out to be decent martial artists, or the same for student's of Toyko Joe's!



Well, the general concensus with Fred Villari's schools is that they are hit and miss. Some are good, some are bad. However, Fred Villari actually had legitimate teaching in the systems he represents. Shyster Kim did not. Shyster Kim didn't even have ILLEGITMATE teaching in the styles he taught. To compare him with Fred Villari is like comparing a competent doctor to a guy who watches ER regularly.


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## Kevin Walker (Jul 12, 2004)

deadhand31 said:
			
		

> Well, the general concensus with Fred Villari's schools is that they are hit and miss. Some are good, some are bad. However, Fred Villari actually had legitimate teaching in the systems he represents. Shyster Kim did not. Shyster Kim didn't even have ILLEGITMATE teaching in the styles he taught. To compare him with Fred Villari is like comparing a competent doctor to a guy who watches ER regularly.


Hi, 

I think the same can now be applied to the Chung Moo Doe franchise, some are hit and miss, and the one in Somerville, MA., from my observation, is a hit.

Also, exactly what kind of 'legitimate' training did Fred Villari receive?  He's been a standing joke here in the Boston area for decades.  Even you pointed out that Iron Kim had Tae Kwon Do training, which is legitimate training.

Fred Villari's franchise teaches styles never studied by Fred, just as is occuring in Iron Kim's franchises.  Maybe I should start a "Toyko Joe's" martial arts franchise?  Coudn't hoit?


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