# The Cross-Counter



## lklawson (Aug 6, 2010)

The Cross, as we know it now, didn't exist in early boxing. A punch with  the back hand was simply called a "Rear Straight." A "Cross" was an  abbreviation for the term "Cross-Counter."

The Cross-Counter was a single-time counter-punch in which a defender  would let the attacker's Lead Straight (usually a straight left) pass  over his right shoulder and punch the attacker in the left side of his  head, crossing his right over the attacker's left. Everyone knew it and  you see it all the way up through even the great Jack Dempsey.

Besides the Cross-Counter, there were other, similar, single-time  counter-punches. One of the most interesting ones is to avoid the Lead  Straight Left by stepping to the right and upper-cutting underneath the  opponents left arm.

Here's a sample of a few of them.

Theory and Practice of Boxing - Cross-Counter:






Donnelly's Right Hand Cross-Counter:





Doran's Right-Hand Cross-Counter:





Shaw's Right-hand Cross-Counter:





Fitzsimmons Duck and Right Hand Body Blow:





Davie's Cigarette Cards - Right Hand Cross-Counter:





Corbett - Crossing on the Jaw:





Corbett - Left-hand Cross-Counter:





Davies - Avoiding the right and Cross-Countering with the right:





Davies - Avoiding a right lead and Cross-Countering with and uppercut:





Dempsey - Cross-Counter





Edwards - Cross-Counter:





Davies - Avoiding a left lead at the head and Cross-Countering with an uppercut:





Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## Skpotamus (Aug 11, 2010)

http://www.mmaconvert.com/wp-content/uploads/post-images/machida_shogun_4.jpg

Shogun KO'ed machida with the same technique.  

He also did it with a left in before the KO: http://www.octagonbuzz.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/Machida-vs-Shogun2.jpg


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## girlbug2 (Aug 11, 2010)

I enjoy threads about historical martial arts. IMO there should be a folder just for posting about it.


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## lklawson (Aug 11, 2010)

Skpotamus said:


> http://www.mmaconvert.com/wp-content/uploads/post-images/machida_shogun_4.jpg
> 
> Shogun KO'ed machida with the same technique.
> 
> He also did it with a left in before the KO: http://www.octagonbuzz.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/Machida-vs-Shogun2.jpg


Yeah, you see it sometimes in boxing/mma still.  But it seems like it's not specifically identified anymore by most modern boxers.  <shrug>

Funny thing, I had an argument online (I know, I know) on rec.boxing with a fella who claimed that this couldn't be done.  

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## lklawson (Aug 11, 2010)

girlbug2 said:


> I enjoy threads about historical martial arts. IMO there should be a folder just for posting about it.


I'm not sure it would get enough traffic.  But I appreciate the enthusiasm!

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## fighterxaos (Aug 14, 2010)

This is exactly the kind of stuff I came here to learn. I do know the cross counter, there's even some fictional pugilists that use the cross counter. But I didn't know that the cross back then just meant cross counter. I'd definitely visit a section specifically for historical martial arts, it would probably get more traffic than you think.


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## lklawson (Aug 14, 2010)

fighterxaos said:


> This is exactly the kind of stuff I came here to learn. I do know the cross counter, there's even some fictional pugilists that use the cross counter. But I didn't know that the cross back then just meant cross counter.


If you look at the old manuals, the "cross" doesn't appear as anything other than a cross-counter prior to the middle (or later) of the 20th Century.



> I'd definitely visit a section specifically for historical martial arts, it would probably get more traffic than you think.


Maybe.  I know that, for Western Arts, anyhow, most of them get discussed in the WMA subforum, except for Wrestling and Boxing which have their own forums.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## VASI (Aug 25, 2010)

awesome thread. I really love this stuff. 
I actually used one or two of those!


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## Lee Mainprize (Aug 2, 2011)

I didn't know that!

Lots of great images to show examples!

Slip and counter punch


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## Skpotamus (Jan 4, 2012)

Came across this guys blog where he goes over the cross counter with some videos of it in use in modern fighting venus (boxing, kickboxing and MMA) and thought of this thread.  

http://fightsgoneby.blogspot.com/2012/01/cross-counter.html


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