# Astral Projection and Chi?



## GeorgeWOE (Aug 27, 2012)

Hello everyone again,

Yes I know I'm starting to become annoying with my questions and my beautiful grammar.

But I have three questions for you:

1)Does astral projection and chi/ki/qi have any connection?

2)If yes then does it help you become better on it?

3)Do you have any experience on the subject astral projection?

(Those questions were asked to me via my Channel(Youtube) and I'd like to cross some opinions and knowledge with you.So I would appreciate it if you can tell me what you know :-D )

By George


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## Gnarlie (Aug 27, 2012)

GeorgeWOE said:


> Hello everyone again,
> 
> Yes I know I'm starting to become annoying with my questions and my beautiful grammar.
> 
> ...



Hi George

I'm going to put this as politely as I can, but you might want to build a little buffer of ki ready for it. 

1) Both external manifestations of ki generated into thin air, and astral projection, do not exist. 

2) See 1.

3) No, because it doesn't exist. 

I find your Youtube channel both irresponsible and misleading.  There is nothing that you have presented that demonstrates anything other than you fantasising about ki and performing a few parlour tricks.  This sort of pseudo-mysticism gives martial arts a bad name, and gives non-martial artists false expectations of what martial arts can do, something that takes legitimate martial artists a lot of time and effort to correct. 

Ki / Chi is merely another way to express effort, correct structure and body mechanics, breathing, etc when generating power to a strike or similar.  Anybody pretending otherwise has watched too much TV and has some growing up to do. 

Gnarlie


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## oaktree (Aug 27, 2012)

Hi George,
 What I am going to say regarding Qi and astral projection is in * a **religious setting and is not scientific.
*


> 1)Does astral projection and chi/ki/qi have any connection?


*

*In a religious setting it is said if you can  cultivate Qi&#27668; unite it with Shen&#31070;, the Shen will become Ling shen&#28789;&#31070; then the Ling Shen&#28789;&#31070;becomes Xian Ren &#20185;&#20154;&#12290;
*Iron-Crutch Li*&#26446;&#38081;&#25296; is famous in folk lore about traveling into someone's body.



> 2)If yes then does it help you become better on it?



In a religious setting it is said that if practice correctly your 3 treasures&#19977;&#23453; will be full and you can do what you wish once this is accomplished. 

If you are interested in studying deeper in the subject of Qi in the religious settings of Daoism and Buddhism then I highly recommend you seek a qualified teacher or books that are written on the scholar level.


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## GeorgeWOE (Aug 27, 2012)

Thank you for your honest reply.I'm glad that there is somebody out there that can be as polite as you.
(I don't even know how you found my channel if it was the right one you found)About what you saw there those weren't statements but theories.
The reason i had made this bunch of videos is to delete and "destroy" stupid theories that exist out there.

That's why they look stupid.

Don't worry about me being insulted.Not even close.

But another question that opened from you to me is that i saw myself getting up from my body.
I mean I saw my body sleeping and I was moving around the room.
I don't know if it was the so called "astral projection" or the weirdest dream i ever had (many times too).

George


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## GeorgeWOE (Aug 27, 2012)

So Cao Cao (I think that's your name)

You believe that astral projection is possible or the liquid dream?


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## oaktree (Aug 27, 2012)

> You believe that astral projection is possible or the liquid dream?



Religious experience or a psychological experience then yes. Scientific no. Holmes Welch mentions in his book parting of the way about the Daoist who does breathing exercises
to see "inner visions of interior gods" were most likely due to levels of carbon dioxide causing a hallucinogenic effect. Various accounts of people who perform rituals or deep trance have similar effects that if improperly done can cause psychosis.
http://www.kktanhp.com/kundalini.htm


> Psychosis will result when the enhanced qi goes up to the brain. This is quite common in the &#8216;Fukien White Crane&#8217; type of practice. The madness starts with arrogance and breaking of bones due to the power. Some of the other symptoms are (1) *Hallucinations with out-of-body experiences*, (2) Things are moving much faster then they actually are, (3) Stiffening of the internal and external body, (4) Thirst for power, (5) Feeling constantly active and restless and unable to calm down. 6) Experiencing involuntary movements and body spasms. The remedy is to drain and re-pattern the vibrational qi.


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## Touch Of Death (Aug 27, 2012)

GeorgeWOE said:


> Hello everyone again,
> 
> Yes I know I'm starting to become annoying with my questions and my beautiful grammar.
> 
> ...


In my opinion, no. They are not related, in that Chi refers to the doing side of your brain and Astral projection has to do with memory. Chi does exist if you understand that its a state you reach when your body mind and breath are all working as a unit so that the sum is greater than the parts, but if you think of it as magic, then fine, it doesn't exist.


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## Gnarlie (Aug 27, 2012)

GeorgeWOE said:


> But another question that opened from you to me is that i saw myself getting up from my body.
> I mean I saw my body sleeping and I was moving around the room.
> I don't know if it was the so called "astral projection" or the weirdest dream i ever had (many times too).
> 
> George



I imagined the same thing when I was on morphine after a bike accident.  That doesn't mean it actually happened.  Just because your brain creates it, doesn't mean it's real. 

At least I hope not, otherwise last night I really did steal next door's dog and take it to a salsa class, where Will Smith paid 16 dollars to eat pickles.



Gnarlie


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## jezr74 (Aug 27, 2012)

While I don't believe there has been any credible scientific evidence for either. I recall "astral projection" is commonly more related to lucid dreaming. When you sleep, a part of your brains activity to your nerve system is shut down to prevent you hurting yourself. You might recall the feeling of running in dreams and not being able to go fast? This is the result of impulses being dulled to prevent you actually trying to move as you are in a dream in bed. It's quite common for people to start to come out of their sleep cycle and be caught in between so to speak, your brain then finds it hard to discern fantasy from reality for that period of time. Astral projection is commonly this state which can be induced. It's also the common state people are in when they report they have had an alien encounter.

I'd have to dig around the science journals to get the correct terminology but that's my vivid recollection.


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## GeorgeWOE (Aug 28, 2012)

jezr74 said:


> While I don't believe there has been any credible scientific evidence for either.QUOTE]
> 
> Yes sadly we don't either for the astral projection or Chi.At least for the western science I don't know what
> the eastern states about this subject... :-/


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## Dirty Dog (Aug 28, 2012)

GeorgeWOE said:


> But another question that opened from you to me is that i saw myself getting up from my body.
> I mean I saw my body sleeping and I was moving around the room.
> I don't know if it was the so called "astral projection" or the weirdest dream i ever had (many times too).
> 
> George



Dreams, delusions and hallucinations are not science.



GeorgeWOE said:


> jezr74 said:
> 
> 
> > While I don't believe there has been any credible scientific evidence for either.QUOTE]
> ...


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## GeorgeWOE (Aug 28, 2012)

jezr74 said:


> I imagined the same thing when I was on morphine after a bike accident. That doesn't mean it actually happened. Just because your brain creates it, doesn't mean it's real.
> 
> At least I hope not, otherwise last night I really did steal next door's dog and take it to a salsa class, where Will Smith paid 16 dollars to eat pickles.
> 
> ...


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## GeorgeWOE (Aug 28, 2012)

Dirty Dog said:


> There is no "western science" and "eastern science". Science is science. It makes no difference where (geographically) tests are performed.



Well from this thread I THINK that it does a little...:/

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php/32912-Debate-on-the-existence-of-Chi


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## Dirty Dog (Aug 28, 2012)

GeorgeWOE said:


> Well from this thread I THINK that it does a little...:/
> 
> http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php/32912-Debate-on-the-existence-of-Chi



No, all that means is that you're confused by the difference between science, religion, mysticism and nonsense.


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## GeorgeWOE (Aug 28, 2012)

Dirty Dog said:


> No, all that means is that you're confused by the difference between science, religion, mysticism and nonsense.



Maybe...maybe not...

That depends on a lot of things though.The differences between us for example.
You are older than I am so obviously you have more experience and knowledge on the subject that 
we are talking about but also that effects a part of you.From the knowledge that you have aquired all 
these years you started decline new theories that come out or subjects that are being discussed.

Actually delete the "decline" and put "don't accept easily".It sounds better. 

I am a young man (age 19) who has experienced a lot of weird things with the subject Chi
for those 5 years that I expiriment with it.I have started this thing with chi alone and I have come 
across a lot of people with their own theories about that subject.I didn't have anyone to tell me 
this is right or wrong but only my own judgement and my ability to ask people around[I even made 
a youtube channel in order to find people(that didn't work out well though because the dbz fans misguided my purpose)].

We are getting out off topic so to conclude this:

Yes I might be wrong about what I'm saying because I can't prove it to you and I can't show you anything.I'm not trying to make you believe me.I'm just trying to get info from you.

Yes I might sound confusing,weird and stupid but I prefer to make stupid questions than have stupid beliefs.

I might see things different than you guys see them.Maybe I need to update my drivers or do a format on me(language of a programmer  )

By George


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## Gnarlie (Aug 28, 2012)

GeorgeWOE said:


> Maybe...maybe not...
> 
> That depends on a lot of things though.The differences between us for example.
> You are older than I am so obviously you have more experience and knowledge on the subject that
> we are talking about



Clearly. 



GeorgeWOE said:


> but also that effects a part of you.



Yes, it makes us more likely to know what we are talking about. 



GeorgeWOE said:


> From the knowledge that you have aquired all
> these years you started decline new theories that come out or subjects that are being discussed.
> 
> Actually delete the "decline" and put "don't accept easily".It sounds better.



No.  Experience allows us to tell the difference between dreams/fantasy and reality.  This is not a new idea, theory or subject that you're putting out there, it's older than all of us.  The fact that we've been around a little longer means we've spent a bit more time and thought on the issue.  Chi/Ki is present as a concept in most martial arts.  That doesn't mean that magic exists. 



GeorgeWOE said:


> I am a young man (age 19) who has experienced a lot of weird things with the subject Chi
> for those 5 years that I expiriment with it.I have started this thing with chi alone and I have come
> across a lot of people with their own theories about that subject.I didn't have anyone to tell me
> this is right or wrong but only my own judgement and my ability to ask people around[I even made
> a youtube channel in order to find people(that didn't work out well though because the dbz fans misguided my purpose)].



It's clear from your posts and your Youtube video that you haven't had much reliable guidance on this topic.  The fact that Dragon Ball Z fans rather than martial artists are responding to your videos should tell you a lot about the sort of person who believes in transmission of Ki through the air. 



GeorgeWOE said:


> We are getting out off topic so to conclude this:
> 
> Yes I might be wrong about what I'm saying because I can't prove it to you and I can't show you anything.I'm not trying to make you believe me.I'm just trying to get info from you.



At this point I'm not sure exactly what you are saying, but your posts and videos suggest that you believe that ki / chi can be thrown around, or wielded like a magic +2 enchanted staff.  That's quite incorrect. 



GeorgeWOE said:


> Yes I might sound confusing,weird and stupid but I prefer to make stupid questions than have stupid beliefs.



At the moment, I think you have a tent in each camp, but I'm sure we can clear it up.  By that, I mean that it doesn't sound like you really understand how Chi / Ki applies in a martial context.



GeorgeWOE said:


> I might see things different than you guys see them.Maybe I need to update my drivers or do a format on me(language of a programmer  )
> 
> By George



Seeing facts differently and disagreeing are no problem.  Believing something that is at best nonsense, and presenting that belief via Youtube as fact, could make life difficult for you.  If I were you, I'd hold the production of further videos until you better understand what Ki / Chi really means. 

Gnarlie


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## GeorgeWOE (Aug 28, 2012)

Gnarlie said:


> It's clear from your posts and your Youtube video that you haven't had much reliable guidance on this topic. The fact that Dragon Ball Z fans rather than martial artists are responding to your videos should tell you a lot about the sort of person who believes in transmission of Ki through the air.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yes you are right I made a mistake about it.I too believed that with Ki I would move stuff with Ki but then I took reality to the face.
About the Youtube videos they were 70 in total.Now they are 50 and I'm still trying to delete other stuff that attract those kind of people.
The worst scenario is that those people are saying weirder stuff than I do.There is a team out there that they believe they are half saiyans,
another one that they believe they are werewolves and vampiresand many others.The worst one was a guy(very old too) that told me that when the end of the world 2012 happens GOKU would come from heaven to save us.

If they were near me I would throw potatoes,shoes,cats whatever I could find on them...

I'll probaly delete everything and start from the beginning... :-/

Anyways thank you for your honesty Gnarlie


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## Gnarlie (Aug 28, 2012)

No problem.  I have a Youtube channel too, and I have to say, the Youtube population (the ones that leave comments)  is one of the worst places to look for advice or information.   If you want to know more about Chi, I'd recommend you ask a qualified instructor and/or grab some literature on Chinese medicine. 

Gnarlie


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## GeorgeWOE (Sep 5, 2012)

i fixed it mate.Deleted everything and answered with a last video.
I also gave credit to you guys.

Thank you again


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## seasoned (Sep 5, 2012)

GeorgeWOE said:


> 3)Do you have any experience on the subject astral projection?



Paul twitchell and Eckankar come to mind. I had friends involved with Eckankar many years age.

Eckankar   (Look for soul travel)   "Soul Travel",

Side note, I have nothing to do with any of this, just reporting.


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## Khaos55 (Sep 28, 2022)

GeorgeWOE said:


> Hello everyone again,
> 
> Yes I know I'm starting to become annoying with my questions and my beautiful grammar.
> 
> ...


Hi, George let me go ahead and answer your question, first off  I do not agree with what  Gnarlie states, but I respect his opinion as he is someone who never experienced it itself one common thing in this world just like martial arts is there are many people who are ignorant but we all are at some point until we go through many life experiences and see reality.

Anyways here is my answers based to your questions.

Hello everyone again,

Yes I know I'm starting to become annoying with my questions and my beautiful grammar.

But I have three questions for you:

1)Does astral projection and chi/ki/qi have any connection? No Qi energy is pretty much life force vital energy what you have internally and can gather all living things have qi, and many things can be done through understanding and using qi energy,   while astral projection is normally using mental and spiritual energy using your mind to be able to experience astral projection also known for others as the out of body experience, you can achieve this through concentration and other states, including meditation if you understand the concept and can visualize, just like there are masters who were able to achieve this and other techniques like bi-location

2)If yes then does it help you become better at it? Well, it depends on your path and what you're looking to do, if your someone looking to get better health or physical training not entirely only you do some training through spiritual practices similar to imagining training, everything has its cons and pros, and it's better you experience it yourself to answer this part of the question mainly.

3)Do you have any experience in the subject of astral projection? Yes, it's part of my philosophy and into this practice but i won't be saying I can do it or it's soo real because just like the above person who stated to you doesn't exist not everyone believes it we live in times that it's not the same as it was in the past when we had thicker spiritual energy and oxygen on this planet.

My only tip is to research and tries it yourself if you can visualize then it will be much easier as this requires visualization in many cases. remember don't let others say it doesn't exist because it's like in the past many laughed saying aliens don't exist and the government already made it public about the existence of non-identity objects.


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## Xue Sheng (Sep 28, 2022)

BTW, this is a bit over 10 year old thread that has not been posted in...well..in 23 days over ten years


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## Khaos55 (Sep 28, 2022)

Xue Sheng said:


> BTW, this is a bit over 10 year old thread that has not been posted in...well..in 23 days over ten years


True I'm actually new to this forum actually, and well we have access to more things than what we did back 10 years ago right? lol


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## Gerry Seymour (Sep 28, 2022)

Khaos55 said:


> True I'm actually new to this forum actually, and well we have access to more things than what we did back 10 years ago right? lol


I think the salient point is that most of the folks involved in the thread 10 years ago will no longer be active on the forum.


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## Jimmythebull (Sep 29, 2022)

What's "Astral projection" ??


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