# "Happy Slapping" in the U.K.



## arnisador (Jun 19, 2005)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/chitribts/20050619/ts_chicagotrib/happyslapyobsbreedfearanger



> It's a criminal assault. Groups of teenagers approach an unsuspecting person and begin punching and kicking him or her while capturing it all on their mobile camera phones. The images are later uploaded and shared on the Internet.
> 
> The victims can be young or old, male or female. Bus stops, tube stations and parks are considered prime venues. In most cases, the injuries are minor. But on Saturday, British newspapers reported that an 11-year-old London girl had been raped by a gang of happy slappers, and Scotland Yard confirmed that three 14-year-old boys had been arrested.
> 
> ...


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## sgtmac_46 (Jun 21, 2005)

I think Robert Duvall summed up the problem best in "Second Hand Lions". 


"This is exactly what I'm talking about, ever since this boy was sucking on his mama's tit he has been given everything but discipline. Now his idea of being a man is coming around here, harassing the good natured folks too polite to put a stop to it." Who am I? Im Hub McCann. Ive fought in two World Wars and countless smaller ones on three continents. I led thousands of men into battle with everything from horses and swords to artillery and tanks. Ive seen the headwaters of the Nile, and tribes of natives no white man had ever seen before. Ive won and lost a dozen fortunes, killed many men and loved only one woman with a passion a flea like you could never begin to understand. Thats who I am. Now, go home, boy! 

Robert Duvall-"Second Hand Lions"

I doubt this will catch on in my neck of the woods. Why not? Two words..."concealed carry". Gang of youth versus old man? Gang of youth wins. Gang of youth versus old man armed with .40 Glock and 16 "friends"? It only takes one "incident" to steer youth away from "happy slapping".  It's hard to intimidate the public when you always have to wonder which adult is armed.


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## Tgace (Jun 21, 2005)

Funny you mention that movie. Heres my favorite quote from it.



> "Some times the the things that may or may not be true are the things a man needs to believe in the most. That people are basically good. That honor, virtue and courage mean everything. That money and power mean nothing. That good always triumphs over evil. That true love never dies. Dosen't matter if they're true or not. A man should believe in those things anyway. Because they are the things worth believing in."
> -Second Hand Lions


And on the topic...at least they have gun control huh?


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## Tgace (Jun 21, 2005)

This is interesting though. Its like an extension of our "Disorderly Conduct".
http://news.yahoo.com/s/chitribts/20050619/ts_chicagotrib/happyslapyobsbreedfearanger


> The government's main weapon against yobbery is the ASBO. An acronym for "anti-social behavior order," it is a civil order obtained from a court that prohibits a person from engaging in certain narrowly defined activities that are not necessarily criminal but are clearly anti-social.
> 
> A neighbor who habitually throws loud drunken parties might be slapped with an ASBO that sharply curtails the number of guests allowed on the premises after 9 p.m. People who violate an ASBO can be jailed.
> 
> ...


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## Bammx2 (Jun 21, 2005)

ASBO's are the most worthless thing ever created to suck tax payers money.

They are just basically restraining orders say junior can't go to streets A,B,C....
so he goes to D,E, and F.
At which point,the police say..."we can't do a thing because he's allowed legally".
There was a police officer here last month who was questioning some teens who were in question of asbo violations.....
He just got out of the hospital recently. No arrests as far as I know.
He didn't even get a chance to call for back up..they beat him pretty damn bad.
The "happy slapping" has become a competition amongst those who participate.Trying to see who can get the "best stunt" and it is escalating out of control big time.
Personally.....
I see a teenager with a video phone pointed at me...HE is the first one I hit,then I am going after his friends!
The biggest problem is....they know the victim is NOT ALLOWED TO FIGHT BACK.
So if the intended victim swings first (or at any point)...he's in jail and all the teenagers won't hesitate to testify.
For me...I'll take a deportaion for making an example! I wouldn't mind a free plane ride home!

What I see the main problem being is the fact these kids know thier "legal rights" and they know how to abuse them.
They have the same rights we had as a kid,but no one shoved them in our face to use as ammunition against the very people who fed us.
Except here,you definately are guilty until proven innocent,so these kids can hollar wolf all they want...and mom and dad are done for!
Screw the person at the bus stop,they have NO chance!
But alas,in true british fashion,there is a solution..........
BAN VIDEO-PHONES!


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## Adept (Jun 21, 2005)

Chavs are apparently an escalating problem in the UK.

 But as Tgace said: At least they got those evil guns under control, right?


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## Adept (Jun 21, 2005)

Bammx2 said:
			
		

> But alas,in true british fashion,there is a solution..........
> BAN VIDEO-PHONES!


 I read about the Brits actually calling for a ban on Kitchen Knives a while back. Please tell me I remember incorrectly...


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## Franc0 (Jun 21, 2005)

Adept said:
			
		

> But as Tgace said: At least they got those evil guns under control, right?



Yeah, but give it some time and they'll soon be outlawing slapping too


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## Yossarian75 (Jun 21, 2005)

There was talk recently about banning kitchen knives with points as well as replica hand guns. It makes the government look like they are doing something about our violent crime problems. 

As for ASBOS, I live in a housing estate and there has been absolutely no difference in anti social behavour around here at all. A friend of mine who lives in a nicer part of town can now go to jail if he plays the drums in his flat again.


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## mj-hi-yah (Jun 21, 2005)

Bammx2 said:
			
		

> BAN VIDEO-PHONES!


This would certainly take away the notoriety.  Video phones also create problems like credit card number theft, and issues concerning invasion of privacy.  In the local YMCA where my son swims, _any type_ of cell phone has been banned in the locker rooms and pool areas.  I think it's the right decision.


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## arnisador (Jun 21, 2005)

There was something like this in the U.S., at least in Boston, some years back--a game of "knockout" where someone tries to knock a stranger out from behind with a single blow. I believe there were some deaths.

Banning kitchen knives in the U.K.:
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24481


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## sgtmac_46 (Jun 22, 2005)

Bammx2 said:
			
		

> ASBO's are the most worthless thing ever created to suck tax payers money.
> 
> They are just basically restraining orders say junior can't go to streets A,B,C....
> so he goes to D,E, and F.
> ...


Cops must be different in England.  If a teenager takes a swing at a cop here, he's made a HUGE mistake that he'll be whinning about for a while.  Most kids in my community wouldn't DARE swing at an officer, because they still know we will respond aggressively.


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## sgtmac_46 (Jun 22, 2005)

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24481

I thought gun control was supposed to stop all the violence? Isn't Great Britain a paradise of crimelessness?

As for "happy slapping", how about taking the offending youth and flogging them? I have to think that 10 lashes in the public square would cure the problem.  Of course I have a sneaking suspicion that, while everyone says they want an answer, they don't want an effective one.


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## Bammx2 (Jun 22, 2005)

Here in the UK....the police are fighting a major uphill battle and they aren't fairing to well.
Take personal training for instance...
They are given jujitsu classes for self-defense.Exellent.....for 1-on-1.
 NO ONE here fights 1-on-1..its always multiples.
They have thier ASP baton and some times pepper spray.
If they come against an assailant,procedure is to have baton on shoulder,back away 10 feet and call for back up.
If the assailant has a knife (or weapon in general)...baton on shoulder,back 15 feet,call for back up.
Thats it.
Assaults on police has gone up 300% in the last 2 years and its getting worse, almost 5 fold this year alone!
 I have personally seen officers try and talk to kids and the kids tell the officer "get you F'n hands off me" and the officer has to do what he is told....BY THE KID!
One major incident I have to mention here....
 6 years ago,a drunk man standing in low light threatened the fire arms unit with a "shotgun"....they opened fire.He died.
 They followed all proper procedures and gave him all the chances they could.
The "shotgun" turned out to be a table leg.
 Now...6 years later...the officers in question have been arrested AGAIN on the suspicion of neglegent homicide...this something like the 4th or 5th time they have tried to get these officers on some form of a MURDER charge.
 The majority of all the firearms units have stated they will quit if these guys get fired or convicted.Don't blame them a bit!
 If an officer shoots someone,he is automatically desk-bound on an investigation of homicide or negligent homicide.
 I saw video footage from Cardiff in Wales...12 officers attacked by 52 drunks at closing time.....use your imagination.
 Now...if the police have to put with this.....
Think about your average citizen who has NO right to self-defense what so ever.
 2 years for carrying a pocket knife with a lock..................
:shrug:


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## Franc0 (Jun 22, 2005)

Bammx2 said:
			
		

> Here in the UK....the police are fighting a major uphill battle and they aren't fairing to well.
> Take personal training for instance...
> They are given jujitsu classes for self-defense.Exellent.....for 1-on-1.
> NO ONE here fights 1-on-1..its always multiples.
> ...



Jeeziz! I do not envy the job of LEO's in the UK. It seems that it will get to a major boiling point over there, and only until all the UK's officers band together to force a change in policy, that things will get better for them.
It seems that the banning of firearms in the UK didn't really help things much violence wise for law enforcement or civillians, they just pimp slap ya now.

Franco


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## adouglasmhor (Jun 23, 2005)

The "drunk man" who "threatened officers with a shotgun" was a partially deaf man who had only drunk lemonade that day. He turned round probably because being almost totally deaf he could not hear what they were saying, seeing the table leg in his carrier bag and having told by a lying anonymous telephone informant he had a shotgun (and that he was Northern Irish at a time when C/R IRA were active?) they felt they had to fire. I was not there and I would probably have made the same call as them but blackening the dead guy's actions does not help get the two officers cleared.


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## Bammx2 (Jun 23, 2005)

adouglasmhor said:
			
		

> The "drunk man" who "threatened officers with a shotgun" was a partially deaf man who had only drunk lemonade that day. He turned round probably because being almost totally deaf he could not hear what they were saying, seeing the table leg in his carrier bag and having told by a lying anonymous telephone informant he had a shotgun (and that he was Northern Irish at a time when C/R IRA were active?) they felt they had to fire. I was not there and I would probably have made the same call as them but blackening the dead guy's actions does not help get the two officers cleared.


Ok.....
 I wasn't there either.
I was only quoting the news stories I have seen and read.
 Just as you were,obviously.
either way,for whatever reason,it's over.Done and dusted.
 Everyone agrees,it was a justifiable shoot.
Except the family,of course.
 What IS a big problem in this country with the gov't is they are ALWAYS looking for someone or something to blame.....they are not interested in fixing the problems.


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## sgtmac_46 (Jun 26, 2005)

Bammx2 said:
			
		

> Ok.....
> I wasn't there either.
> I was only quoting the news stories I have seen and read.
> Just as you were,obviously.
> ...


Sounds like the law in the UK is only designed to be obeyed by law abiding citizens.


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## Bammx2 (Jun 26, 2005)

sgtmac_46 said:
			
		

> Sounds like the law in the UK is only designed to be obeyed by law abiding citizens.


 It is...sort of.
 I asked an officer in Hastings once:
 "If I kickoff on a mugger and and I use something at hand to defend myself and he runs off,why do I get arrested when I call the police"?
 His reply...
 "because the mugger has run off and you still there".

 Here,If you get attacked by someone with a knife(or anything for that matter) and you pick something and hit him more than once,REGARDLESS of wether the first hit was effective,YOU get arrested for excessive use of force and the attacker gets to press charges!


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## sgtmac_46 (Jun 27, 2005)

Bammx2 said:
			
		

> It is...sort of.
> I asked an officer in Hastings once:
> "If I kickoff on a mugger and and I use something at hand to defend myself and he runs off,why do I get arrested when I call the police"?
> His reply...
> ...


If that were the case, i'd run off before the police arrived too.


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## Bammx2 (Jun 27, 2005)

sgtmac_46 said:
			
		

> If that were the case, i'd run off before the police arrived too.


 That is exactly what I tell my students now!

 ...and I went straight out and bought a new pair of running shoes after that


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## Corporal Hicks (Jun 28, 2005)

masterfinger said:
			
		

> Jeeziz! I do not envy the job of LEO's in the UK. It seems that it will get to a major boiling point over there, and only until all the UK's officers band together to force a change in policy, that things will get better for them.
> It seems that the banning of firearms in the UK didn't really help things much violence wise for law enforcement or civillians, they just pimp slap ya now.
> 
> Franco


Lol, the stupid thing is I'm going to be and LEO soon, yeah great job I'm lined up for. As for the police force and officers banning together its already happening, simply because they are too fed up of this political human rights crap. I think the Japanese style policing should be adopted. I just hope it changes before I get in, if I get in.
As for happy slappy having spent the last year in education Ive seen it done once by younger years, and it wasnt a full on attack but more of a joke, since one guy had his mobile out filming and another just charged unsuspectingly at another from behind barging straight into him and knocking him flat, the fact the kid was crying meant that they didnt continue. Still at least it shows how dangerous and stupid it can be.
Maybe Police should start abusing their own human rights, until something is done, though that wouldn't be a very good idea. Talk about legal rights though, one of your American female police officers was almost beaten to death by a guy and the guy got 50 years (50 YEARS) now that is a sentence, in Britain they would get a pathetic 2/3 years for assault, or not even that. Its pathetic!


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## TKD USA (Jun 28, 2005)

Here is a story I read on another Martial arts forum about 4 days ago.

The manwho posted this story was being followed by teenagers and then he heard one of them say " I'll give you five pounds if you do it to him." Soon after one of them started running straight for him at that point he turned around and grabbed the kid by the neck. he was som stunned about what happened he didnt know what else to do but squeeze. So eventually the kid " fell asleep" and the man ran home 

I just thought this would be interesting to hear


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## Bammx2 (Jun 28, 2005)

TKD USA said:
			
		

> Here is a story I read on another Martial arts forum about 4 days ago.
> 
> The manwho posted this story was being followed by teenagers and then he heard one of them say " I'll give you five pounds if you do it to him." Soon after one of them started running straight for him at that point he turned around and grabbed the kid by the neck. he was som stunned about what happened he didnt know what else to do but squeeze. So eventually the kid " fell asleep" and the man ran home
> 
> I just thought this would be interesting to hear


 :uhyeah:


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## CuongNhuka (Aug 2, 2005)

stuff like this is the reason i don't like most law systems. in the u.k. you get couple years for assualt, in america, maybe 5 years of living off my payrole. i think that all world countries should adapt a more realistic viewon how to punsh people. your a racist, you become someones slave (i don't like racists') after all are you really human at this point? assualt, you get the bloody hell beat out you. "Happy slapping", can you say death? and if you have to send them to jail, make them work and pay for their own cost of living! hay we do and we are the good folks!!!! or if nothing else test exerimental drugs on them. you know like a cure for aids, we will end up finding a cure for one of the most horrifing deases in the world, and along the way kill alot of con.'s. srcew THEIR rights, what about mine???? and why are the only countries who will acculy put a stop to this kind of bull **** considered 'evil'. if every countrie was more realilistic avout punishment, the world as a whole would have less crime, after all would you want to go pull a knive on me if you could be killed for it? or if i could kill you for trieing and not get punished for it? and make it so that if some tried to rape my girlfreind and she could ACCTULY FIGHT BACK. i don't know if this true for most countries, but in the u.s. you can only defend yourself if your life is threatened. politicians and law makers have abboviosly never had to worry about that. and if anyone is wondering what political pary i'm a part of, its the rationalists lol.

sweet Brighit bless your blade, and wake up those stupid english law makers.

John

and if any english out their are ticked off at me know for that last line, i'm english too.


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## OUMoose (Aug 2, 2005)

"A society should be judged not by how it treats its outstanding citizens but by how it treats its criminals."  _Fyodor Dostoevsky_


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## Kenpojujitsu3 (Aug 4, 2005)

And here I looked at the title and thought this was the usual "Kenpo Slap Art" thread LOL.  All I can say is D%$&.  Here in the US all the 'cons' carry guns and nobody really fist fights because whoever loses tends to try and "comeback" and shoot the winner (at least that's how it is here in Baltimore).  Sounds like over there in the UK it's reversed none/few of the 'cons' carry guns and nobody really gets shot instead the 'cons' just beat the h*ll out of people.  Just shows that guns aren't the root cause of violence, they are just a tool for already violent people.  Wonder when the governments will (a) figure that out or (b) since they already know like everybody else do something about.  Sigh...Time will tell.


"Guns don't kill people, people kill people" -- original author unknown


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## sgtmac_46 (Aug 4, 2005)

OUMoose said:
			
		

> "A society should be judged not by how it treats its outstanding citizens but by how it treats its criminals." _Fyodor Dostoevsky_


_ Dostoevsky was speaking like a criminal. If criminals didn't feel that they should be treated better than others, they wouldn't be criminals in the first place._


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## arnisador (Aug 8, 2005)

Perhaps he was also thinking of political prisoners, those protesting unjust laws, etc.?


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## Shotochem (Aug 9, 2005)

OUMoose said:
			
		

> "A society should be judged not by how it treats its outstanding citizens but by how it treats its criminals."  _Fyodor Dostoevsky_


_

A very Chamberlinesque attitude by Mr Dostoevsky.  An overly forgiving and 
pacifistic nature will put the inmates in charge of the assylum.

I prefer a "speak softly but carry a big stick" attitude with an added "use it often when needed" :jedi1: ._


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