# Sparring



## Rob_Broad (Oct 19, 2001)

Should Sparring be part of regular class, or should it be a specialty class.  Most students enjough doing sparring drills, but do not enjoy actually sparring.  What do you think?


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## GouRonin (Oct 19, 2001)

Should be a specific class. Maybe 2 or 3 a week somewhere in the schedule of the school depending on the rank etc.

Students should HAVE to spar. Not every sparring class but at least 2 or 3 times a month. A good instructor will teach the in's and outs od sparring and keep it under control.

A specific class is good because that is what you will be dealing with. Sparring. It's a whole art unto itself.


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## Rob_Broad (Oct 19, 2001)

I think that sparring should not be mandatory.  There are people that are happy to do forms, self defense techniques, and basics.  they have no abition to throw on the gear and bang around.   I have to say that I have never forced a student to spar after they have sparred 3 times just to give it a chance.


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## GouRonin (Oct 19, 2001)

if I ever had my own school. Sparring would be manditory. It doesn't mean uncontrolled all out rage. It means learning to deal with actual interaction.

It's Martial arts, not dance class.

But that's just me.
:soapbox:


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## Rob_Broad (Oct 20, 2001)

The idea of making Sparring mandatory sounds good in theory.  But would you make a physician or chiropractor who was a student spar.  One misadventure and there could be a severe problem.   Accidents happen and people have lives away from their training,   An executive with a black eye doesn't seem to assuring, just like a surgeon with huge bruised knuckle doesn't look professional.


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## GouRonin (Oct 20, 2001)

I can't accept that. it doesn't have to be all out crazy but it they come out to learn martial arts they need to spar. That's just my opinion.
:soapbox:


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## Rob_Broad (Oct 20, 2001)

With your background from boxing I can respect your opinion about evrybody sparring, but there are many people that enjoy the martial arts for the fitness and the calming effect has on them.:cheers:


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## GouRonin (Oct 20, 2001)

Those people are gay, fruity-@ssed, granola-eatin', tree-huggin', sandal-wearing, whale-watchin', crystal pendant wearing, aura watching, chi freaks.

Sorry.

I'm cranky today.

:soapbox:


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## Rob_Broad (Oct 20, 2001)

Sounds like it is time for you to perform one of those self-no-touch knock outs.


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## Bob Hubbard (Oct 20, 2001)

Hey now there Gou...

I'm one of those fruity-@ssed, tree-huggin', sandal-wearing, whale-watchin', crystal pendant wearing, aura watching, chi freaks.  

Well, actually, I don't know the tree well enough yet to hug...we just shake limbs. :rofl: 


Seriously - I think it depends on a-the art, and b-what -you- want to achieve.

If you're doing 1 of the 'fitness' types  (cardio boxing, kickboxing, some tai-chi flavors, yoga, etc) you can probably lose the sparing part, no problem.

If you're doing it for a self defence aspects, you need the sparing.  Even if its just the "move in, tap and back off" type, it helps you to at least look for openings, get used to throwing a shot, loosen up, build some confidence, and helps in balance.

My personal opinion?  Most schools don't do enough sparring.  Local Kenpo school hasn't had a real sparing set since June sometime.  Oh, they've dont a few "clinics"  the jab right, then shuffle left then throw a left into the big pad your partners holding bit....but no free form, etc.  I like sparring...helps me seek out the practical uses for my training.
"Hmm...he's throwing a left straight punch, I'm off to his left, so I shouldshuffle to my right, slap with right, grab with left and guy shot."  "Ohh, spinning back kick, shoulda been ready for that"

Ya know? 

Course, if theres a reason the student doesn't want to spar, thats ok too....the gals at certain times, people obviously out of it (poor control, etc issues), people who just can't seem to understand that its training, not combat, etc.

:asian:


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## Bob Hubbard (Oct 20, 2001)

As an aside...last time I sparred, I worked with a guy who's a Jujistu (I think) champ.  I took a shot to the gut...oh man, I flew back onto my back, feet went over my head, and I'm bouncing back to my feet.  Everyone was concerned (esp him) that I got hurt...it was 1 of the most fun moments I've had sparring.

Ok, I'm babblin now....it's nap time!

:asian:


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## Rob_Broad (Oct 21, 2001)

When I first started training 20 yrs ago, I  sparred at the end of every class.  But as time went by and I gained rank and the classes got smaller there were less and less people to spar.  It eventually came to the point where I could only spar the beginners and people lower than me because there was no one at my level or higher in our school.  I did the tournament thing but politics reigned supreme, you either got called for hitting too hard, or too soft, or the ref was checking out some woman on the sidelines.  I became very dissatisfied with sparring.  I eventually got into self defense style sparring which I enjoy much more.  I used to love tournament sparring with the takedown, sweeps, throws, now a days you can't look hard at the opponent or you get called.  Or you get the guy who taps you and runs around the ring with his hand up to declare he got a point.

Sparring is a good tool, but it is just one of the many tool in the martial arts.


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## GouRonin (Oct 21, 2001)

I have to be careful with those. Remember the last time? I put myself out for almost an hour!
:shrug: 
As for the not sparring. YOU MUST SPAR! Even if it's just playful. You MUST! Play tag. Make specific tag targets. Make it light. Make it heavy. Whatever! YOU MUST SPAR!
I don't know if I can handle another 5 year old black belt kata champion who cannot throw a punch unless it's in the air...
:soapbox: 
Kaith...don't do this to me baby! It's me! Yer old Pal Gou! Tell me you spar! TELL MEEEE!!!!
:wah:


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## Rob_Broad (Oct 21, 2001)

I like to spar with weapons especially my bo does that count?


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## Bob Hubbard (Oct 21, 2001)

Gou,
 I -LOVE- to spar.  Can't get enough of it myself.  If it wasn't for my bloody eyes and a lack of proper head gear, I'd do it alot more.  

Once I get the cash to get the gear, I wanna go full contact sometime.  Staff, sword, stick, sai, bokken, it dooont matter.  I just wanna play!


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## Cthulhu (Oct 21, 2001)

May we ask about the problem with your eyes?

I have really bad astigmatism, and have a risk of getting a detached retina if I take too many hard blows to the head.  I spar anyway.  I don't ignore the risk, I don't fear it, but I am aware of it.  I just don't let it control me.

I look at it this way...astronauts risk their lives everytime they step into the shuttle.  They could blow up on the pad, on lift-off, in orbit, or on re-entry.  However, they love what they do, so they accept the risk.  I love martial arts.  I'll accept the risk.  I figure as long as I don't just stand there and let someone thump me on the head all day long, I should be alright 

Cthulhu
  damn...babbling again


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## arnisador (Oct 21, 2001)

> _Originally posted by Rob_Broad _
> *Sounds like it is time for you to perform one of those self-no-touch knock outs. *



I recently attended a three-day seminar by George Dillman. It was the first time I have ever been embarrassed to be at a seminar. While I left with many useful pieces of information, the no-touch knockouts were clearly "social pressure" knockouts--the students feigned fainting in order not to show up their instructors. (Several instructors did these "knockouts".) They had a young girl "move" her instructor by standing behind him and using her "ki/chi" to pull him back; students were also asked to form "balls of ki" and hand them back-and-forth. It was stage magic.

I didn't attend the seminar on using sound to increase the effectiveness of locks and such--luckily there were often two or more seminars going at once during the camp.

In addition to the no-touch knockouts, there was extensive discussion of the differences in the ways that men and woemn should fight--men should strike one side of the face, women the other--together with discussion of how this should be modified if the striker is a homosexual. Again, I was absolutely embarrassed to be there.


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## arnisador (Oct 21, 2001)

> _Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz _
> *As an aside...last time I sparred, I worked with a guy who's a Jujistu (I think) champ.  I took a shot to the gut...oh man, I flew back onto my back*



Perhaps Mr. Hartman will regale us with the memory of the time Ron Van Browning landed an elbow in his midsection...if he remembers.

If not, I do.


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## Bob Hubbard (Oct 21, 2001)

Eye-Problem : LASIK "Issues".  Short form is that since 7-5-01 (when they flap n zapped me) I've had a series of "Ah Sh!T!" weeks with my eyes.  Reading which used to be a pleasure is pure hell for me now.  (When MAD magazine kicks your ***, its a problem).  Eyes aren't healing right, and are still way outta focus.

Any damage to them, only makes it worse.  Oh, and they dry out like crazy...I go through $30 to $100 in eye drops a week.

It sucks....really ruined bikini season for me. :shrug: 


That seminar sounds, um, "Specul"


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## Cthulhu (Oct 22, 2001)

Yow, Kaith.  I hope you're suing somebody's pants off.  Out of the several people I know who've had LASIK done, yours is the first problem incident that I've heard of.

I've been toying with the idea myself, but:

1) TOO DAMN EXPENSIVE
2) Still too early to tell if there will be any problems in the long term.
3) TOO DAMN EXPENSIVE
4) Don't like what I heard about point light sources having halos around them
5) TOO DAMN EXPENSIVE

I would like to be rid of glasses and contact lenses, but at least they are a known risk.  Haven't really ever had problems with contact lens in a martial arts class, but I have had an instance where my glasses got 'smooshed'.  Luckily, they're made of a fairly sturdy metal frame and could be coaxed back into something approaching their original shape.  If I wear glasses to class, I just remove them for sparring.  Things are a wee bit blurry, but I've managed to survive so far 

Cthulhu


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## GouRonin (Oct 22, 2001)

Oh you guys and your silly weapons...
:rofl:


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## Bob Hubbard (Oct 22, 2001)

Suing, not ...yet....  but am consulting with a shark, errr, attorny. 

The halos and warp lines are interesting....night driving is sorta like looking at the old Star Trek transporter effect, with a few Futon Torps tossed in for 'effect'.  Its, um, not fun.....:shrug: 

If I could do it again, I'd rather have a vacectomy with a weedwacker.... its definately been a lose situation so far for me.

Plus side - no glasses

Minus side - Expensive, spend $60/WEEK on eye drops (avg), night driving is very poor, reading is a chore, extreme dry eye problems, gaming on the pc is also no fun anymore, eyes focus  comes and goes...its worse in the darker areas than in lighter ones...Going to the movies, or just watching TV isn't much fun anymore as its either washed out, or blurry.... and the seeing tripple part just plain sucks.:shrug: 


Ya just deal, ya know?

Hmmm....gotta get Gou out to Renegades school....he's got those nerf swords.......:rofl:


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## GouRonin (Oct 22, 2001)

I am coming down this Wednesday. Someone e-mail me the directions on how to get there from Fort Erie Crossing will ya? Or I suppose I can call the Renegade. :erg:
I get very frustrated with the sticks. It's a new area for me and it takes some talent which I do not seem to have aquired yet. I tend to just drop my sticks and start punching which mr. Hartman has assured me is ok but I should try and hold onto my sticks longer than 3 seconds.  
Anyway, hope to see people there. I have yet to see the new school.
And whatever shall i wear?:shrug:


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## Bob Hubbard (Oct 22, 2001)

Clothes....PLEASE!!!!!!  

I'll try and get ya the driving directions tonite.


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## GouRonin (Oct 22, 2001)

I'll wear a gi.

Man, you guys have some weird hang ups...

:hammer:


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## Big Guy (Oct 22, 2001)

It does not matter what you wear it won't  help  I plan to have just street clothes. Hope to work on stick and knife. I can not think of working with any one else as good as Mr. Tim Hartman with STICK'S! Hope to see you at Hartman's:samurai:


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## GouRonin (Oct 22, 2001)

I'll just wear sweats.
:asian:


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## Bob Hubbard (Oct 22, 2001)

Rough directions... (mind you, i'm totally fried mentally now) 

From Peace Bridge:
Take I190 South (towards Buffalo) 

Take the I-90 W exit, exit number 54-61, towards ERIE (NOT! Airport)

Take 1st exit (It'll say East Aurora or 400 or rt 16.

Go over the bridge and take the 1st exit (Seneca Street)

Go to the end, and turn Left at the light.

At Fork in road, goto the left nect to Sunoco Station.

School is in Wimbeldon Plaza on the Left....
(Bowling Ally, and other nice eats places.... 

I'm going to bed now....4 days with 4 hrs sleep each = BaaaaD!!!!


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## GouRonin (Oct 22, 2001)




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## Cthulhu (Oct 22, 2001)

If you guys are gettin' together: must...take...pics...and...post...them!

Damn.  Jedi mind tricks don't transfer through the keyboard.

Cthulhu


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## GouRonin (Oct 23, 2001)

Ladies love us...are you sure you wanna take this chance? You might get swamped with people coming to this site.
:shrug:


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## Cthulhu (Oct 23, 2001)

Actually, I was hoping the pics would frighten people off 

Cthulhu


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## Bob Hubbard (Oct 23, 2001)

Course, I never did find out when everyone is gonna be there.... I got a client meeting at 4pm, and am taking the SO to her Brown Belt test in the evening (Kenpo school in Alden NY)  

I'm gonna have to swing back out to my office n grab the digital camera....


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## Cthulhu (Oct 23, 2001)

Cool beans...you da man, Kaith.

I'll admit it...I really just want to see pics of all of you being knocked on yer a$$es 

Cthulhu


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## GouRonin (Oct 24, 2001)

Being with these 2 jokers for me is like living in the land of the giants.

Sheesh. you'll know which one I'll be, the elf. Hee hee hee!
:rofl:

Brown Belt in Kenpo? American Kenpo right? Please tell me American Kenpo. I don't think I could handle any other news today.


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## Bob Hubbard (Oct 24, 2001)

Gou,
  She says its "mostly American with the chinese influences....derived from Parker Kenpo."

dumb ? - whas da diference?


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## GouRonin (Oct 25, 2001)

Parker had lots of chinese influence.

But as per our conversation the other night it just sounds liek it's all a matter of who you learn it from. If she's happy there then stay and be happy.

"When bone meets flesh, that's Karate"
Paraphrased from Ed Parker

"Anytime you get to punch or kick someone that's a good time."
Gou Ronin - yesterday


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## Bob Hubbard (Oct 25, 2001)

I've had a lot of chinese influence too....lunch time, every day.  

I'll get those special pics up ASAP.  :rofl:


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## GouRonin (Oct 25, 2001)

Yes, we posed especially nice for Cthulhu. I hope he enjoys them.
:moon:
Actually the blonde at the bar afterwards should have posed for some pics. Yowza!  :wavey:


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## Rob_Broad (Oct 25, 2001)

Sounds like everyone had a good time.  As Gou said to me earlier today he was there for the bruises and the beer.  Sounds like a lot of fun.


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## Bob Hubbard (Oct 31, 2001)

I will hopefully have the pics up this weekend.... My eye crappimg out has put me way behind.   We need more of these get togethers.


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## Cthulhu (Oct 31, 2001)

that he doesn't get to hang with  y'all.  It'd be nice to be up around that area for get togethers, but then I'd have to deal with my mother for taking her only granddaughter so far away.  Believe me...you do NOT want to piss off a small Okinawan woman. 

Cthulhu


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## GouRonin (Nov 1, 2001)

I don't want to go the same way Princess Di did!
:boing2:


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## Rob_Broad (Nov 5, 2001)

That one was truly tasteless.  Princess Di jokes, you are smarter than that.  Besides I see you taking the Sean Penn route.


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## GouRonin (Nov 7, 2001)

Can't stand 'em.
:soapbox:


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## Bob Hubbard (Nov 7, 2001)

Watch da tasteless jokes...we have an image here to uphold as being -better- than RMA.


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## Cthulhu (Nov 7, 2001)

Sorry, all, but I'm going to have to second Kaith's request.  Now, if the tasteless joke was MA related... 



Cthulhu


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## girlychuks (Nov 9, 2001)

Dudes, this was supposed to be about sparring?
Which I did for the first time last night 
It rocked. I only had brown belts (I am a baby yellow!) to go up against so I had a LOT of fun learning to block. I also got to feel what a roundhouse kick to the lower ribs feel like. I won;t let THAT happen again any time soon.
Only kind of bummer about it- I felt like kind of a novelty,  everyone was really interested in watching "the girls" spar- eren got a "this is better than women's wrestling" comment.

But then again, I got called "aggressive" too!
Sigh. I guess I will just have to learn how to kick butt so I;m less "entertaining" and more SCARY 

Ah, to throw a punch.... next time I will focus on breathing more and flailing less


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## Cthulhu (Nov 9, 2001)

Sparring is like recess after working on basics for a while.  Glad you enjoyed it!  Next time, find the person who made the women's wrestling comment and spar them.  Be sure to scare the pee out of him 

Cthulhu


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## Bob Hubbard (Nov 9, 2001)

da kick - I hope you weren't doing full contact sparring without proper gear?  You should never leave a class feeling like you've taken a beating.  A Brown belt -should- have enough control to pull the shots.

da comments - I politely let em know it wasn't a proper comment...or, spar with em and 'accidently' do a "cup check".

1 other word of advice...."Blocking with Head" = Baaaaad.  

:asian:


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## Rob_Broad (Nov 9, 2001)

As a therapist would say, if you are enjoying it and no one is getting hurt, enjoy yourself.  I used to love sparring with higher belts.  The bigger the lumps the more I learned.  "That might expalin things," sorry Gou it was easier for me to take the cheap shot at myself than let you have it.


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## GouRonin (Nov 9, 2001)

Actually, any part of the body can be an effective block/destruction if you cut short the distance the punch is travelling. Stopping the full extention of the arm before the punch removes the summation of joint forces and deletes a good portion of the power. Not only that but the hand can be easily broken.


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## Ms J (Nov 9, 2001)

Being Aggressive has a definite place for a women, balancing it though between when and where is the deal when training-sparing or using self-defense or a martial art regardless of your gender. 

In addition, for man in General that is untrained, An Aggressive woman is Scary as hell. 

I know, i have had a number of them run like the wind as soon as i pulled a blade out or whacked them with a stick in defense of there untrained attack. Learning an art or self-defense for a woman again is on a different level. We do it for a number of reasons. Self defense-self esteem-empowerment normally comes first on the lists of whys.

Reading the attack or aggression that is coming at you needs to be taken into account and quickly. Partly that is what a block is for, you are learning how to read your attacker, and after reading the attack you give an appropriate physical or other response... A Block or defense to an attack does not always come in the form of a physical bodily Block.

My Personal trainer has been screaming at me for nearly 4 years about me being too aggressive and using the long range, passive aggressive or evavison action more. 

18 years ago my private teacher would drag me on the beach chase me around with the butt of his Dos manos stick,  and tell me i was not Aggressive enough. though he was a WWII Filipino war Vet. :uzi: 

Bahhhhh because of this, I would rather just go in take them out and get the hell out but thats my core self defense training talking and its just as important to learn the long as well as the short and mid ranges when sparing in or learning an art. Therefore, I do know it and I teach and use it. However, it is not my personality to be sure.....  

Note: I know I am sort of generalizing here. In addition, there are always exceptions to the rules. But, generally speaking its the way I have found it too be based on, first the real life experience-then the education- then the past 5 years of research I have done for the programs we have going for women and victims of abuse-rape-assault and domestic violence. 

Ms. J bows deeply:asian: 

 The Woman with the Big Sticks 
 Well behaved Women Seldom Make History


Ms. Johnaleen Castro
CEO/F.A.T.E. 1-888-526-4626
Facilitating Awareness Through Empowerment
FATE@f-a-t-e.org
www.f-a-t-e.org


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## Testdummy (Aug 28, 2002)

I think sparring should be part of every class once or twice a week. The reason I say that is because it gives the students a time to use what they have learned in class.  It  also gives them the chance to get use to someone throwing a punch or a kick when  the student is not ready for that kind of punch or kick to be throwen at the. So in a way it keeps them on there feet just as if they were in a fight out in the streets. :erg:


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## Seig (Aug 29, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Testdummy _
> 
> *I think sparring should be part of every class once or twice a week. The reason I say that is because it gives the students a time to use what they have learned in class.  It  also gives them the chance to get use to someone throwing a punch or a kick when  the student is not ready for that kind of punch or kick to be throwen at the. So in a way it keeps them on there feet just as if they were in a fight out in the streets. :erg: *


It also gives the instructor the chance to slap someone silly who desperately needs it, right


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## Stick Dummy (Aug 29, 2002)

Seig,

LMAO, Did I miss any gratuititous violence last night????

  And now we have a "Test Dummy" posting from By-GaWd, WeSt ViRgiNNy  to boot. 



Ms J,

Welcome! I dun scene yur posts at Mas Terrys place methinks. 


Ahhh The exotic smell of Burning Rattan in the Morning..........



Later Gaters!

And you to TessMania!


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## Sigung86 (Aug 29, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Ms J _
> 
> *Being Aggressive has a definite place for a women, balancing it though between when and where is the deal when training-sparing or using self-defense or a martial art regardless of your gender.
> 
> ...



Ms Castro,

Thanks and a good post.  Sounds like the advice from your old Philipine WWII Vet stuck!  Good thing!  Being an old Nam Vet and with some history of confrontation here and there, I teach my students to be quick, effective, and thorough.  Life threatening is a whole lot different than irritating someone because you are an aggressive female in a sparring class.  That, to me, is always a big cop out.

Agressive men are "Alpha Males" ... Agessive women are bitches or have PMS or ...  I personally never understood that line of reasoning.

Keep on keeping on and if I can ever be of any assistance, let me know! 

Dan Farmer


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## tonbo (Aug 29, 2002)

I *love* sparring aggressive women at our school.  

It's funny....the aggressive guys are seen as always having something to prove.  They are the "gunfighters" or "tigers"; they are always too tight, too rigid....and can't flow, generally.  On the other hand, the women tend to get right down to business, and start trying to take you apart in a calculated way.  Man, it's fun, gotta say.

Even better, I still have yet to hear any one of them say that someone is "hitting too hard" or treating them differently.  Sheeesh....last upper belt lady that I sparred actually whispered to me just before we started, "Don't be nice to me".  Heh.  I wasn't.  Then again, she wasn't nice back, so it worked out, and fun was had by all.......

I think that aggressive sparring partners, male or female, teach you a lot.  Love 'em.  *sighs wistfully, wishing for his next sparring class*

Peace--


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## KenpoTess (Aug 29, 2002)

is there a hot tub around?

when it was just sparring our own students.. I had confidence in myself.. in my abilities.. I could block.. get in strikes.. and we all, on the basic side .. knew each others sparring techniques so there was no contest.  Now... there's Stickdummy and another guy who  fight us weekly .. and I'm feeling rather whitebeltish.. Sooooooooo different to fight someone from another style.. it's not that because they are blackbelts .. it's not their speed or fluidity.. but a combination of everything .. 
We were taught  with the 'rules of engagement'  and now those rules are on the way side .. which is good because it's opening a new world of sparring /street fighting.  
Stickdummy tells me to relax.. and not use so much power.. ok. .I can deal with that and am trying my utmost.. the leg sweeps .. chokes.. etc.  take me off guard but I'm learning from them 
though even with my armadillo padding.. I still have major bruises~!! Maybe I'm too old for this *pondering*
I would like to have all sorts of coaching lessons.. from various stylists.. It keeps the interest up and hey if you're out in real time and get attacked..it's paramount you have a variety of abilities.

Seig did some ground work during sparring Tuesday night.. I looked over and he had been tackled by Randy .. and the pair of them rolled with Seig ending on top.. who says there's no groundwork in Kenpo.. 


All in all.. you can learn every technique but without practical utilization.. they are just that.. techniques.. 

with Respect..

TessMania


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## FLY (Aug 29, 2002)

> _Originally posted by GouRonin _
> 
> *Actually, any part of the body can be an effective block/destruction if you cut short the distance the punch is travelling. Stopping the full extention of the arm before the punch removes the summation of joint forces and deletes a good portion of the power. Not only that but the hand can be easily broken. *



Hehe....I've broken more than one hand on my face before :rofl: :rofl: :shrug: 

FLY.

:asian:


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## Kalicombat (Aug 29, 2002)

Guess I got in late, but I think that sarring is a must if you are going to train and study martial arts. You dont necessarily have to tournament spar. But simulating confrontation is a must.


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## Kalicombat (Aug 29, 2002)

DOH!!!!! Sparring, not sarring


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## Klondike93 (Aug 29, 2002)

Does sparring only happen when you put on the gloves?

                                        or


What is sparring?



:asian:


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## Sigung86 (Aug 29, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Klondike93 _
> 
> *Does sparring only happen when you put on the gloves?
> 
> ...



We don't need no stinkin' gloves, booties, headgear or nuttin!!!

We bad! We bad!  We prob'ly were kind of dumb way back then!

 :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:  

Dan


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## Klondike93 (Aug 29, 2002)

I was in TKD at the time, but I remember a time when I first started we didn't wear pads.




:asian:


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## Sigung86 (Aug 29, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Klondike93 _
> 
> *I was in TKD at the time, but I remember a time when I first started we didn't wear pads.
> 
> ...



Lesseee... Um-hum... That would make you one of the guys in the white gi's!  :lol:

Dan


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## Klondike93 (Aug 29, 2002)

Yup, that it would.

Although, when I made it to a high enough rank, we did get to wear black.



:asian:


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## Chronuss (Aug 30, 2002)

I think sparring should be a must in any type of martial arts training.  it doesn't really simulate a life-like confrontation, but it does get a person used to executing attacks and blocking actual attacks being thrown at them, also showing what type of reach they have with certain techniques and they should practice.  it also shows that getting hit doesn't really "hurt", unless you're one of those peope that do NHB fights.  it gives a person the oppurtunity to see what they're capable of in a "fight situtation", but of couse it does have controlled variables.


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## Klondike93 (Aug 30, 2002)

My question still has not been answered, what is sparring?

At what point are you sparring or what dictates that your sparring?


:asian:


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## KenpoTess (Aug 30, 2002)

Sparring to me.. is an Exchange... attack /Defend.. Defend/ Attack
It was a pugilistic term before the advent of the Oriental Martial Arts.. 
The Use of Control 
to perfect your own capabilities and techniques.. it's not meant to harm your partner.. you are using your own knowledge and abilities.  You are practicing... 

Having different partners allows you to challenge yourself.. One partner may be very aggressive with kicks.. or hands.. or feetwork.. you then work on your own defense /attack techniques differently with each partner.  

each person utlizing the ability to attack and defend.. using techniques learned,  in a controlled setting.    You can be the antagonist  or protagonist.. Stand and defend yourself or charge in and attack.  There are no winners or losers in Sparring ( unless you're doing it for points.. and then it's still only a game)
Sparring allows me to make contact with my opponent in not only a physical way.. but also an emotional avenue.. some just stand there.. letting me back them into a wall..or as I shadow their every move.. and I have control of them.. It opens up an arena into their pysche.. and mine.. 
I'm quite aggressive in sparring.. males or females.. matter's not.  

"At what point are you sparring or what dictates that your sparring?"

 It's the exchange of  balancing each persons abilities against another.  It's your practical application of what you know..and how you react.  It's not fighting the opponent.. but challenging yourself.

with respect,

Tess


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## Rich Parsons (Aug 30, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Rob_Broad _
> 
> *The idea of making Sparring mandatory sounds good in theory.  But would you make a physician or chiropractor who was a student spar.  One misadventure and there could be a severe problem.   Accidents happen and people have lives away from their training,   An executive with a black eye doesn't seem to assuring, just like a surgeon with huge bruised knuckle doesn't look professional. *



Rob,

I think that is professional Surgeon or someone else who has lives or their job relying on their hands, may want to re-think Martial Arts. If they are in it for physical exercise and not self defense then there would be no need for Sparring for them. 

The counter, Gou's point of view, is that all Martial arts are MARTIAL, or physical in that they should teach the correct way to fight, injure or avoid getting injured. Sparring is mandatory to test your knowledge of the techniques and dealing with unexpected events as they happen.

Now, for two points that it does not completely destroy your career to have a black eye, in a professional office environment.

1) A few years ago I was covering for a friend at the door, while he was up north hunting. I nice little fight broke out. Details available if requested. Needless to say I was busy with two different people and the third got through my defense and scored a hit on my eye. Hit so hard, it crossed and I had to close it to continue and see. Well afterwards all was well the eye was nice Black and Blue and the rest of the colors in the rainbow. Everyone at work, was shocked, yes, but not a career ending event.

2) My executive Director, just one level below Vice President, had a nice Bike Accident where he hit a Deer on his bike. Had broken hands and spent some time in the Hospital. No one asked why the Executive Director was out riding his Harley? No one said wow, he hurt himself, we need to avoid him. We are all impressed at little damage he had taken and his skills of controlling the bike. Well at least I was. 

And a third point, I just remembered, my Director, just under the Executive Director, has a back eye and bruises from his Rugby game. No one thought it was bad, and he just recently got another position change for the advancement of his career.

Yes to some, like surgeons it can be a problem if you cannot operate the next day.

Just some experience with Sparring or badges of sparring and the office environment.

Good Training all

Rich


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## Klondike93 (Aug 30, 2002)

> Sparring to me.. is an Exchange... attack /Defend.. Defend/ Attack



I agree with what you say here. There is more to sparring than putting on the gloves and trying to see who, on that day, is the better.


:asian:


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## RCastillo (Aug 30, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Seig _
> 
> *
> It also gives the instructor the chance to slap someone silly who desperately needs it, right  *



Maybe I do need it. Whatcha waiting for?:rofl:


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## RCastillo (Aug 30, 2002)

> _Originally posted by tonbo _
> 
> *I *love* sparring aggressive women at our school.
> 
> ...



I love sparring aggressive women too!:ladysman:


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## KenpoGirl (Aug 30, 2002)

> _Originally posted by RCastillo _
> 
> *
> I love sparring aggressive women too!:ladysman: *



Some how I'm not surprised.  :shrug: 

Dot


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## GouRonin (Aug 30, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Rich Parsons _
> *The counter, Gou's point of view, is that all Martial arts are MARTIAL, or physical in that they should teach the correct way to fight, injure or avoid getting injured. Sparring is mandatory to test your knowledge of the techniques and dealing with unexpected events as they happen.*



Why is it Rich so many people failt to see this point of view? Has the PC hammer swung that far?
:hammer:


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## Seig (Aug 31, 2002)

> _Originally posted by RCastillo _
> 
> *
> 
> Maybe I do need it. Whatcha waiting for?:rofl: *


C'mon up!


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## Seig (Aug 31, 2002)

> _Originally posted by RCastillo _
> 
> *
> 
> I love sparring aggressive women too!:ladysman: *


C'mon up! *NOW*


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## Chronuss (Aug 31, 2002)

yes, we quite a few aggressive females in class, KenpoTess being one of them.  a few of them quite enjoy getting right in the middle of the action, but some of the males also have to be careful of them because they significantly smaller and if the males used even half power, we'd no longer have the females, hell, we'd no longer have some of the males in the class!  but as KenpoTess said, it's more of a game to help excel in skills, not a bashing contest.


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## Rich Parsons (Aug 31, 2002)

> _Originally posted by GouRonin _
> 
> *
> 
> ...



Gou,

If I knew the answer to this, I would write a book and make money on the answer. THe money could be used for my training.  

I always knew Gou was PC, just that PC means Politically Challenged. :rofl: 

Talk to you later

Rich


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## Seig (Sep 1, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Rich Parsons _
> 
> *
> 
> ...


No, in his case it means Pickled Canadian:drink2tha


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## RCastillo (Sep 1, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Seig _
> 
> *
> No, in his case it means Pickled Canadian:drink2tha *



So true!:rofl:


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## Rob_Broad (Sep 1, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Seig _
> 
> *
> No, in his case it means Pickled Canadian:drink2tha *



There is nothing wrong with being a pickled Canadian.  Many times I have been a pickled Canadian and a few times I have been pickled in Canadian.:cheers:


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## pineapple head (Sep 1, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Rob_Broad _
> 
> *Should Sparring be part of regular class, or should it be a specialty class.  Most students enjough doing sparring drills, but do not enjoy actually sparring.  What do you think? *



I'm really looking forward to do regular sparring sessions.
I think sparring should be practiced as often as possible , techniques alone will not prepare you for a battle in the street.


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