# Red stripe on 4th Dan belt



## Muwubu16858 (Aug 15, 2007)

I have one question. How long ago did they start using that red stripe on the Sa Bom belt(4th Dan up)? Although I have one too, my teacher tells me when he was Head Instructor at the Moo Duk Kwan Central Gym in Seoul in 1979, they didn't use that belt at the school. Just wanted to know when it was added to Tang Soo Do?


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## Chizikunbo (Aug 30, 2007)

Muwubu16858 said:


> I have one question. How long ago did they start using that red stripe on the Sa Bom belt(4th Dan up)? Although I have one too, my teacher tells me when he was Head Instructor at the Moo Duk Kwan Central Gym in Seoul in 1979, they didn't use that belt at the school. Just wanted to know when it was added to Tang Soo Do?


Hello,
unfortunately, I think you may have a hard time finding this out...we still do not know when the Moo Duk Kwan made a change from the black belt and dohbak trim to the midnight blue...usually there is an "about date" in the late 60's and early 70's. What I can tell you is that SGM Hwang Kee appeared on the cover of "Inside Kung Fu" in 1975 wearing the obvious midnight blue trimmed dohbak, and midnight blue belt with the red center stripe.

take care,
--josh

p.s. who is your instructor out of curiosity?


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## Muwubu16858 (Aug 30, 2007)

Lee Jung Hwan. Dan Bon was 1651. I know they used Midnight Blue trim and Belt when my teacher began learning at the Moo Duk Kwan central gym in Seoul in 1960. However, my teacher was Chief Instructor at the MDK Central Gym in 1979, and he says he never used a Red striped belt at that time, but like you said, and I've seen the pic of GM Hwang too, that he's in a pic from 1975 whering the belt. Maybe, what I'm guessing, is that it may not have been fully instituted until later?


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## Chizikunbo (Aug 30, 2007)

I think you are on the right track, maybe it was just not in full use then...


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## GreenEyedDespereaux (Sep 27, 2007)

I recieved my 4th dan belt in 2006, and I have a red stripe on my belt.


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## Master K (Oct 20, 2007)

The red stripe was instituted prior to the 70s.


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## Muwubu16858 (Oct 22, 2007)

I'm guessing only in the US if you say prior to the 70's, cause my teacher became Head Instructor of the Moo Duk Kwan Central Gym in 1979, and told me during that time, he never wore any red stripe, nor anyone else there for that matter.


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## Master K (Oct 27, 2007)

Actually that is not the case.  The red stripe on the belt was used in the 1960s.  My instructor wore one and so did a number of other instructors at the Moo Duk Kwan Central Gym.  If you look in the Soo Bahk Do Dae Gahm you will see a number of Kodanja with the red stripe.  The pictures that appear in the Soo Bahk Do Dae Gahm were taken in the mid to late 1960s.

One reason that perhaps your instructor did not see it was a fair amount of active kodanja from the Central gym were dispersed throughout the world to propagate Moo Duk Kwan Tang Soo Do.


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## Butch (Oct 28, 2007)

I had this diccussion with GM JJ Kim (Dan Bon #38) back in the late 90's and here is what he told me. The midnight blue trim came about in 1957 and was world wide by 1962 and the red stripe was introduce in 1964 and world wide by 1968.


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## Taiji_Mantis (Oct 28, 2007)

He give any explanation as to why the red stripe Master Voss? Or is this just another one of those times we follow the orderrs of the Commandant?

Good to see you over here!


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## Butch (Oct 29, 2007)

Sorry, we didn't go into that. As a matter of fact I can't remember what brought the topic up, but I think it was the picture of him in his office when he was a lot younger with the single red stripe on his bis belt.


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## Butch (Oct 29, 2007)

I hate to double post but for some reason I couldn't get the edit to work. 
Anyway I've been on here for a while I'm just not active here as I am in other places.


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## Master K (Oct 29, 2007)

Those dates seem to fit for the most part with what my instructor told me as well.


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## thesandman (Nov 19, 2007)

I can't answer the original post, but I can tell you that the red stripe in my school represents the "master instructor" rank which technically is a seperate distinction from 4th degree.  In practice they do go hand in hand as that the master instructor requirements shadow 4th degree ones so closely.

When I received my 4th degree black belt in 2001 I did not receive this distinction as that my Grandmaster (Soke Michael Kinney) was at that time waiting until 5th degree.  I received the title of "Master Instructor" once I received my 5th degree.

That has since changed (I think mostly to more closely allign the school with what others in our assocation were doing) and 4th degree has become the master instructor rank.

Honestly, I rarely wear my belt with the red stripe through it as I consider it a bit fancy really.  I save it for special occasions (exams, seminars ect).  When teaching or training I generally just wear my black belt with the 5 bars indicating degree.


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## JWLuiza (Nov 20, 2007)

thesandman said:


> I can't answer the original post, but I can tell you that the red stripe in my school represents the "master instructor" rank which technically is a seperate distinction from 4th degree.  In practice they do go hand in hand as that the master instructor requirements shadow 4th degree ones so closely.
> 
> When I received my 4th degree black belt in 2001 I did not receive this distinction as that my Grandmaster (Soke Michael Kinney) was at that time waiting until 5th degree.  I received the title of "Master Instructor" once I received my 5th degree.
> 
> ...



Michael Kinney got his blackbelt with my school in Maryland before he moved to Florida and we don't use the Red Stripe officially.  Since he might have added it himself, that might explain why he does it slightly different.


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## thesandman (Nov 21, 2007)

JWLuiza said:


> Michael Kinney got his blackbelt with my school in Maryland before he moved to Florida and we don't use the Red Stripe officially. Since he might have added it himself, that might explain why he does it slightly different.


 
Small world huh?  Master Kinney always speaks highly of his time in Maryland and Washington.  Did you train with him yourself?


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## JWLuiza (Nov 25, 2007)

thesandman said:


> Small world huh?  Master Kinney always speaks highly of his time in Maryland and Washington.  Did you train with him yourself?



No, I started in 91.  He was already in FL then.


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## astrobiologist (Aug 31, 2008)

I'm a 3rd dan.  I recently put my black belt with gold name and school embroidery and gold stripes away and began wearing just a straight black belt.  If I am promoted to a higher rank in my art, I'll just use that same black belt until a day comes when the thing is so old it just falls apart.

My students know my rank.  I know my rank.  If someone asks, I'll tell them my rank.  But I'd rather have people in the martial arts community respect me for my martial arts than for stripes, patches, ribbons, decals, logos, and whatever else there is that people wear.

No offense to those who prefer having the stripes and such on their belts; for me, it's a matter of preference.


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