# Weight Lifting or conditioning with Wing Chun



## PiedmontChun (Oct 15, 2014)

I am curious what kind of workouts other WC/WT guys are doing for overall conditioning? Lifting weights at all? More bodyweight / calisthetic type stuff? Cross fit type workouts?

I'm a big guy. 6 feet, 235-240 pounds, fairly solid build. Flexibility has been an uphill battle for me. I have noticed that my ability to keep elbows in takes focus for example, and my wrist / forearm flexibility doing SLT is a challenge. My teacher has commented it is improving and I am a bit getting looser / springier as well which is awesome. 

I worry that going back to lifting weights heavy like I used to do (high weight / low rep) will ultimately counter act or work against my WT. However I do need to get back in shape. I just installed a pull up bar. I was thinking maybe a combo of this with pushups, kettlebell swings, crunches and other bodyweight exercises on alternating days (and completely seperate form WC time) might be the best fit. Any other ideas or suggestions?


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## KPM (Oct 15, 2014)

That last bit sounds like a good plan to me!  Lifting heavy weights can be counter-productive for Wing Chun.  Lifting lighter weights with more reps is less likely to be a problem.   I haven't been hearing good stuff about Cross Fit lately.  Too many people ending up hurt, so I wouldn't go that route if I was you.  Another thing that helps is getting some light dumbbells (only 3 lbs, or even 1 lb!) and holding them while you do lots of punches and other Wing Chun related drills.    As far as elbows in....this is often over-emphasized.  Your elbows don't have to be on the centerline, just down.  In general, if you have your elbow aimed at the opposite knee, its going to say coupled with the hip and give you good structure, regardless of how close to the centerline it actually may be.    I've done some Kettlebells, but it didn't really "take."  I like doing Indian Club swinging instead.  ;-)


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## Kwan Sau (Oct 15, 2014)

PiedmontChun said:


> I am curious what kind of workouts other WC/WT guys are doing for overall conditioning? Lifting weights at all? More bodyweight / calisthetic type stuff? Cross fit type workouts?
> 
> I'm a big guy. 6 feet, 235-240 pounds, fairly solid build. Flexibility has been an uphill battle for me. I have noticed that my ability to keep elbows in takes focus for example, and my wrist / forearm flexibility doing SLT is a challenge. My teacher has commented it is improving and I am a bit getting looser / springier as well which is awesome.
> 
> I worry that going back to lifting weights heavy like I used to do (high weight / low rep) will ultimately counter act or work against my WT. However I do need to get back in shape. I just installed a pull up bar. I was thinking maybe a combo of this with pushups, kettlebell swings, crunches and other bodyweight exercises on alternating days (and completely seperate form WC time) might be the best fit. Any other ideas or suggestions?



Dude I could talk your ear off on this topic. Been doing fitness stuff for most of my life. Before diving in to this thread topic...can you narrow it down a little? I.e. is there a specific area of fitness your after? Or, a specific skill?


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## PiedmontChun (Oct 15, 2014)

Kwan Sau said:


> Dude I could talk your ear off on this topic. Been doing fitness stuff for most of my life. Before diving in to this thread topic...can you narrow it down a little? I.e. is there a specific area of fitness your after? Or, a specific skill?



I generally want to be in better overall shape, strong but leaner with increased flexibility, and not carry excess bulk. I generally dislike cardio so a regimen of running would likely just burn me out, but I never minded lifting weights and it always seemed a good way to burn calories / stay strong. My typical day now is fairly sedentary between desk job and a decent commute so I am looking for good bang for my buck time-wise, thats why I was thinking high intensity stuff like burpees, kettlebell swings to still have resistance exercies with some cardio benefit as well.


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## Kwan Sau (Oct 15, 2014)

PiedmontChun said:


> I generally want to be in better overall shape, strong but leaner with increased flexibility, and not carry excess bulk. I generally dislike cardio so a regimen of running would likely just burn me out, but I never minded lifting weights and it always seemed a good way to burn calories / stay strong. My typical day now is fairly sedentary between desk job and a decent commute so I am looking for good bang for my buck time-wise, thats why I was thinking high intensity stuff like burpees, kettlebell swings to still have resistance exercies with some cardio benefit as well.



Well, you're on the right track if you are considering HIIT routines. I've used them pretty much every other day for the last decade or so. Like you, I don't have a lot of time and therefore prefer routines/exercises that give me the most bang for my buck. So, I use kettlebells, burpees, thrusters, jump squats, tire slams w/sledge-hammer, neutral-grip pullups, gymnastic ring pushups, and steep uphill short sprints (just to name a few).  
The intense nature of these ballistic drills (using weights mixed w/cardio) in the HIIT fashion (i.e. I typically use the Tabata protocol) can pack in a ****-whoopin' workout in a mere 4 minutes. I caution you though: at maximal intensity, these can and will fatigue your CNS so be sure to take a day or two rest between sessions. 
The payoff: combined with healthy smart choices...lots of lung capacity and fat melting!  You will get in shape, and get lean, powerful, explosive. 
Further resources: the guru of this sort of stuff is Ross Enamait. Been around a long time, probably before Crossfit took off. His manuals are cheap and will give you a very good info dump and crash course into HIIT style fitness. RossTraining.com Blog
Another good resource would be Dragon Door. Two products that come to mind from my library would be: The Naked Warrior by Pavel; and Convict Conditioning by Coach Wade. Additionally, Pavel has numerous products focused on flexibility, stretching, etc. 
Hope this helped a little dude.


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## Marnetmar (Oct 15, 2014)

If you're gonna weight train while doing W.C, make sure not to place too much emphasis on your chest or biceps since that seems to slow down a lot of WC guys' striking ability. Not entirely sure how that works though.


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## drop bear (Oct 16, 2014)

Marnetmar said:


> If you're gonna weight train while doing W.C, make sure not to place too much emphasis on your chest or biceps since that seems to slow down a lot of WC guys' striking ability. Not entirely sure how that works though.




There are people with large chests and biceps who are fast. Mike Tyson is usually the standard example.
But let's look at kieth Liddell who holds the record.

?Fastest Punch? Guinness Record holder is also a mathematician and author

Push ups is a chest exercise.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OGooLoL1GiU

Not the one I was looking for but I do love an epic beat down.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zpRWtYC9HOI


Anyway. Where wing chun wins a fight they tend to be physical guys. So a strength training programme is worthwhile.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1f7td8Hc-V4


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## Kung Fu Wang (Oct 16, 2014)

In "general" TCMA training, we usually lift weight with "fast" speed to develop that "explosive" power. One thing is very important, "you should control your weight, never let weight to control you".


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## Eric_H (Oct 16, 2014)

PiedmontChun said:


> I am curious what kind of workouts other WC/WT guys are doing for overall conditioning? Lifting weights at all? More bodyweight / calisthetic type stuff? Cross fit type workouts?
> 
> I'm a big guy. 6 feet, 235-240 pounds, fairly solid build. Flexibility has been an uphill battle for me. I have noticed that my ability to keep elbows in takes focus for example, and my wrist / forearm flexibility doing SLT is a challenge. My teacher has commented it is improving and I am a bit getting looser / springier as well which is awesome.
> 
> I worry that going back to lifting weights heavy like I used to do (high weight / low rep) will ultimately counter act or work against my WT. However I do need to get back in shape. I just installed a pull up bar. I was thinking maybe a combo of this with pushups, kettlebell swings, crunches and other bodyweight exercises on alternating days (and completely seperate form WC time) might be the best fit. Any other ideas or suggestions?



Crossfit yo. Harder to find a good gym these days since everyone thinks they can do crossfit now, but if you get a good one, don't ever leave. Other option is learning/doing it on your own. Someone already mentioned Ross Enamait, his stuff is gold.


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## OzPaul (Oct 16, 2014)

If you just train WC for a hobby like most here do I would be getting in the gym, lifting some weights and getting on the treadmill.  Chicks down the pub don't care how fast u can punch but they sure care about how you look... My thoughts on the matter &#55357;&#56842;


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## Eric_H (Oct 17, 2014)

OzPaul said:


> Chicks down the pub don't care how fast u can punch



You're going to the wrong pub


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## MJS (Oct 17, 2014)

PiedmontChun said:


> I am curious what kind of workouts other WC/WT guys are doing for overall conditioning? Lifting weights at all? More bodyweight / calisthetic type stuff? Cross fit type workouts?
> 
> I'm a big guy. 6 feet, 235-240 pounds, fairly solid build. Flexibility has been an uphill battle for me. I have noticed that my ability to keep elbows in takes focus for example, and my wrist / forearm flexibility doing SLT is a challenge. My teacher has commented it is improving and I am a bit getting looser / springier as well which is awesome.
> 
> I worry that going back to lifting weights heavy like I used to do (high weight / low rep) will ultimately counter act or work against my WT. However I do need to get back in shape. I just installed a pull up bar. I was thinking maybe a combo of this with pushups, kettlebell swings, crunches and other bodyweight exercises on alternating days (and completely seperate form WC time) might be the best fit. Any other ideas or suggestions?



Body weight exercises are great!  I do them in addition to going to the gym.  Nothing says that when you lift at the gym, that you have to go heavy/low rep.  Go lighter with high reps.  There are many different workout plans available.  Lately, my focus is full body workouts.  I design my workout to include some cardio as well.  I'll use a medium weight, going from 1 exercise to the next, no rest, until I'm done with the circuit.  I then rest 30sec to 1min, and repeat that at least 3 times.  I'll usually do 15-20min of cardio after that. I'm in and out within an hour.


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## PiedmontChun (Oct 17, 2014)

Thanks for tips everyone. I think crossfit is out for me, mostly since it would be another expensive monthly fee and a drive across town to work out. I dig their approach when its not over the top though (I know the owner and trainer at one in a neighboring town), which is why I was curious if other WC-ers do it and how it jived for them with their WC.

I'm going to watch it with lifting weights to failure and try and keep an equal emphasis on stretching along with bodyweight resistance training. I may just be a lowly junior level student when it comes to WC, but I can see the flexibility and sensivity of my teachers that I would love to work toward without making it harder than it already is given my history of being very tight and tense (chiropracter even told I was stiff as a board once, ha!)


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## Carol (Oct 17, 2014)

Weight training is a phenomenal exercise.   I could not have made the fitness and health gains I've made over thw last several months without it.   There is a lot of static against weight lifting amongst devotees of Chinese styles...which has always struck me as odd.   It doesn't swem to be a TMA thing, i've been in renown Judo schools and TaeKwon Do schools that had floor space dedicated to weight training.

Its your path, your experience.    If your regimen does not take you where you want to be, adjust it accordingly.


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## geezer (Oct 18, 2014)

Carol said:


> Its your path, your experience.    If your regimen does not take you where you want to be, adjust it accordingly.



That's great advice, Carol. I really enjoyed weight training for a while until an unrelated back injury, knee injury and shoulder issues steered me in a different direction. Now I'm not as strong or fit as I was. 

On the other hand, my chi sau is faster and more responsive. Bulk can be very problematic for some of the traits we train for in my lineage of WC. The essential qualities of relaxation and "springiness" that give quickness of response are not encouraged by a heavily muscled physique.


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## drop bear (Oct 18, 2014)

Eric_H said:


> You're going to the wrong pub




 trust me. Chain punching in a pub impresses nobody


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## drop bear (Oct 18, 2014)

PiedmontChun said:


> Thanks for tips everyone. I think crossfit is out for me, mostly since it would be another expensive monthly fee and a drive across town to work out. I dig their approach when its not over the top though (I know the owner and trainer at one in a neighboring town), which is why I was curious if other WC-ers do it and how it jived for them with their WC.
> 
> I'm going to watch it with lifting weights to failure and try and keep an equal emphasis on stretching along with bodyweight resistance training. I may just be a lowly junior level student when it comes to WC, but I can see the flexibility and sensivity of my teachers that I would love to work toward without making it harder than it already is given my history of being very tight and tense (chiropracter even told I was stiff as a board once, ha!)




Look up kettle bell and plate workouts. That will help you core strength a bit as well.


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## wingchun100 (Nov 4, 2014)

I do home fitness routines like P90X and Insanity. In fact, I did a hybrid routine of those two that worked really great and got me the best results out of everything I have tried. I know they aren't for everyone, but that has been my journey.


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## Eric_H (Nov 7, 2014)

drop bear said:


> trust me. Chain punching in a pub impresses nobody



[h=2]sar·casm[/h] _noun_ \&#712;sär-&#716;ka-z&#601;m\: the use of words that mean the opposite of what you really want to say especially in order to insult someone, to show irritation, or to be funny


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## drop bear (Nov 7, 2014)

Eric_H said:


> *sar·casm*
> 
> _noun_\&#712;sär-&#716;ka-z&#601;m\: the use of words that mean the opposite of what you really want to say especially in order to insult someone, to show irritation, or to be funny




Admit it you are "that guy"

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AURS8yvM7X0


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## Eric_H (Nov 11, 2014)

drop bear said:


> Admit it you are "that guy"
> 
> http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AURS8yvM7X0



dear god, i hope not.


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## JPinAZ (Nov 12, 2014)

Eric_H said:


> dear god, i hope not.



You're right, you're not 'that guy'. I've seen you shadow box in the club, you got nothin' on that speed demon!


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## angelariz (Dec 10, 2014)

I do the Obstacle course run type work outs.
Flip tractor tires, pull ups, muscle ups, wall climbs, snatch, cleans, squats, triceps extensions, curls...weights with heavy(for me) chains.
Lots of treadmill and martial training make up my cardio work.
My intention is to build explosive strength and stamina.
Do to the nature of the cardio work, I do not gain much in the way of size.
I am not a heavy weight so my results might be different than another person that does what I do.


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## Thunder Foot (Dec 15, 2014)

Hi Piedmont,
I'm close to your size at 6'2 and used to be 230. I used to rely heavily on weight lifting and running. Nowadays I do more bodyweight exercises and resistance band training. I walk around at 195-200 and am leagues faster than before and in much better physical shape. My experience has been to exercise with motions I will use in my training. Augment with bands or weights like weight vest, ankle weights, etc.
Personally Im a believer in training how you fight so you fight how you train. So I try to streamline everything I do. Hope this is helpful.


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## catch (Dec 17, 2014)

My experience has been in using multiple repetition with light weights integrated with controlled and accurate MA technique execution develops those muscles used in your art. For cardio, as I age, I've gone to less physically impacting exercises without sacrificing achieving sustained target heart rates/times.

I am happy with the results....cut, fast, and strong. Not so much on attempting to gain massive muscles.


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