# Elevation Training Mask 2.0 is a great tool for amping cardio



## ali55 (Jun 17, 2015)

Awesome training tool. Highly recommend


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## Mephisto (Jun 17, 2015)

I'm curious about these things. How do they work? Do they just make breathing harder? Do they force you to focus on breathing technique more? I've seen a guy use one at my boxing gym, but I only see him around on occasion and he doesn't always use it. I'm a little skeptical of these things. It seems like a gimmick. I'd think if they worked that great they'd be more widely used. It seems like you could just up the intensity of the workout you're doing and get a similiar or better effect.


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## drop bear (Jun 17, 2015)

Mephisto said:


> I'm curious about these things. How do they work? Do they just make breathing harder? Do they force you to focus on breathing technique more? I've seen a guy use one at my boxing gym, but I only see him around on occasion and he doesn't always use it. I'm a little skeptical of these things. It seems like a gimmick. I'd think if they worked that great they'd be more widely used. It seems like you could just up the intensity of the workout you're doing and get a similiar or better effect.



They are pretty widely used.

It is a mask with a little air hole so you don't get enough air. And so you are forced to breath more efficiently. And it is a psychological hurdle.

Comes sort of from divers and apnea training.


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## drop bear (Jun 17, 2015)

Training for freediving

The diving version.


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## Tez3 (Jun 17, 2015)

or you can use the MOD issued gas masks which is what our guys use, no sense in buying things when you get them issued!


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## Andrew Green (Jun 17, 2015)

Mephisto said:


> I'm curious about these things. How do they work? Do they just make breathing harder? Do they force you to focus on breathing technique more? I've seen a guy use one at my boxing gym, but I only see him around on occasion and he doesn't always use it. I'm a little skeptical of these things. It seems like a gimmick. I'd think if they worked that great they'd be more widely used. It seems like you could just up the intensity of the workout you're doing and get a similiar or better effect.



There is a lot of mixed opinions, and there have been studies that don't show they do what they say they will do (increase VO2 Max).

Lot of people seem to like them, and they will definitely make you feel like you are achieving something, but I think so far the science says you aren't.


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## Dirty Dog (Jun 17, 2015)

The science is very clear on this. There is absolutely zero actual benefit to these stupid things. Don't use them. If you own one, throw it away.


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## Tez3 (Jun 17, 2015)

Dirty Dog said:


> The science is very clear on this. There is absolutely zero actual benefit to these stupid things. Don't use them. If you own one, throw it away.




I've read that too. Our guys wear them anyway on exercise etc and training in them I think amuses them when the civvies are impressed lol.


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## Dirty Dog (Jun 17, 2015)

A longer answer, now that I am home...

Training at altitude has a number of benefits. These masks claim (falsely) to provide the same benefits without requiring you to go to altitude.
When training at altitude, athletes are breathing air at a lower pressure than at lower altitude. The composition of the air remains the same.
The only way to duplicate this at low altitude would be to enter a sealed chamber and use vacuum pumps to reduce the air pressure.
These masks do absolutely nothing to the air pressure. They do one thing and one thing only. They restrict the FLOW of air by forcing you to, in essence, breath through a straw.
There is no benefit from this. Masks of this sort do an excellent job of simulating one thing. Breathing with an obstructive airway disease, such as asthma or emphysema.
Do you ever hear of athletes intentionally giving themselves emphysema to improve their athletic performance?
I didn't think so.

Training at altitude is (pay attention, because this is key...) _*not about the respiratory system*_.
Altitude training doesn't really do anything to the respiratory system at all.
What it _*does*_ do is force the body to produce more oxygen carrying red blood cells.
Gases cross between the lungs and the blood because of differences in pressure. Lower pressure means less gas crosses over. To compensate for this, the body produces more oxygen carrying red blood cells. _*That*_ is the benefit of altitude training. The lungs are capable of providing FAR more air than the body can use.
Altitude training is about increasing the oxygen carrying capacity of the blood by increasing hemoglobin production. That's it.

These masks will not, and cannot, cause the same increase in hemoglobin production. Because they do not and cannot affect the pressure of the air inside the lungs. All they do is make you work harder to move the same volume of air volume.

This is a list of the actual benefits of restricting air flow while exercising:
None.
Zilch.
Nada.
Bupkiss.
Zip.

These devices are a con game, playing to the gullibility of the buyer. That is all they are.


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## elder999 (Jun 17, 2015)

Dirty Dog said:


> A longer answer, now that I am home...
> 
> Training at altitude has a number of benefits. These masks claim (falsely) to provide the same benefits without requiring you to go to altitude.
> When training at altitude, athletes are breathing air at a lower pressure than at lower altitude. The composition of the air remains the same.
> ...


 
And the process for increasing hemoglobin actually requires _sleeping_ at altitude far more than _training_ at altitude....if you could train at sea level and sleep eight hours at 10,000 ft., that would be best.....


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## Tez3 (Jun 17, 2015)

elder999 said:


> And the process for increasing hemoglobin actually requires _sleeping_ at altitude far more than _training_ at altitude....if you could train at sea level and sleep eight hours at 10,000 ft., that would be best.....




You should see the Gurkha recruits who come from the mountain villages when they arrive here first, their stamina is great. It does wear off I've been told by my old shift partner, when he goes back to his village in Nepal he says he's breathless at first but gets used to it again after a week or so.


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## Dirty Dog (Jun 17, 2015)

elder999 said:


> And the process for increasing hemoglobin actually requires _sleeping_ at altitude far more than _training_ at altitude....if you could train at sea level and sleep eight hours at 10,000 ft., that would be best.....



It's not even sleeping, really. It's just plain being at altitude. The training part does the same thing it does at any other altitude. It's just that being at high altitude forces the body to adapt. By increasing hemoglobin production. Training at sea level would make them feel better while they're exercising, but it would actually slow the increase in hemoglobin.
Of course, it's not like a world class athlete trains at sea level 99% of the time and then goes to altitude 3 days before an event.
One reason the US Olympic Training Center is in Colorado Springs is the altitude (a touch over 6000 feet) and the ready availability of REALLY high altitudes to train in (12000+ feet in a number of places).



Tez3 said:


> You should see the Gurkha recruits who come from the mountain villages when they arrive here first, their stamina is great. It does wear off I've been told by my old shift partner, when he goes back to his village in Nepal he says he's breathless at first but gets used to it again after a week or so.



Absolutely. Because that's about how long it takes his hemoglobin to lower, when he comes down hill, and increase, when he goes back up hill.


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## ali55 (Jun 18, 2015)

Mephisto said:


> I'm curious about these things. How do they work? Do they just make breathing harder? Do they force you to focus on breathing technique more? I've seen a guy use one at my boxing gym, but I only see him around on occasion and he doesn't always use it. I'm a little skeptical of these things. It seems like a gimmick. I'd think if they worked that great they'd be more widely used. It seems like you could just up the intensity of the workout you're doing and get a similiar or better effect.


Its love hate with people. Obviously you cant really simulate the same altitude effect as being at high altitude instead. Any idiot can say that.  But Its definately a good tool for mental training and breathing technique.  It forces you to breath properly or you dont get enough air . Because sometimes people breath too shallow, so this makes you breath properly in a situation with less air. So good mental and technique training. Absolutely not ********.  Never claiming that it will produce same effects as the real altitude but its a great tool that I have been using past 2 years and my stamina results can be seen. watch my other videos for my fitness if you want to see for yourself! All the best!


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## Dirty Dog (Jun 18, 2015)

ali55 said:


> Its love hate with people.



No, it's gullible vs reality.



ali55 said:


> Obviously you cant really simulate the same altitude effect as being at high altitude instead.



So it's false advertising then. It's good that you can admit this.



ali55 said:


> Any idiot can say that.



I'd say "idiot" is more appropriate to someone who makes false claims...



ali55 said:


> But Its definately a good tool for mental training and breathing technique.  It forces you to breath properly or you dont get enough air .



No, it doesn't. It forces you to struggle to breathe IMPROPERLY.



ali55 said:


> Because sometimes people breath too shallow, so this makes you breath properly in a situation with less air.



Your understanding of the physiology is...lacking...



ali55 said:


> So good mental and technique training. Absolutely not ********.



You have an erroneous "not" in that sentence...
It is absolute ********.



ali55 said:


> Never claiming that it will produce same effects as the real altitude but its a great tool that I have been using past 2 years and my stamina results can be seen. watch my other videos for my fitness if you want to see for yourself! All the best!



It is an idiotic waste of money with zero benefits.


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## chan jackson (Jun 18, 2015)

Dirty Dog said:


> No, it's gullible vs reality.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




You made your point that you think its ********, while others support it. 
Everyone just wants to help in their own way, even if its offering advice you dont like. Just dont make it personal attacks. 
Its just like how some people love and others hate a martial art.
lets keep this friendly and not too rude man. We all just want to become better, in our own ways. 

All the best!


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## Dirty Dog (Jun 18, 2015)

chan jackson said:


> You made your point that you think its ********, while others support it.
> Everyone just wants to help in their own way, even if its offering advice you dont like. Just dont make it personal attacks.
> Its just like how some people love and others hate a martial art.
> lets keep this friendly and not too rude man. We all just want to become better, in our own ways.
> ...



Except that I actually have an understanding of the physiology involved. 
These masks are in no way helpful. They're a con, scamming money from the gullible.


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## Andrew Green (Jun 18, 2015)

Both the martial arts industry and the fitness industry are full of things that make claims that can't be backed up, this is just one more.  I think it is a good thing that the industry speaks out against these claims, after being burned by false promises people start distrusting the industry as a whole.  

The diet industry has probably gotten the worst of this, but fitness devices aren't too far behind.  Training masks have been proven to not do wha they claim to do.  Maybe some people do get a psychological boast from pushing through the obstacle, maybe not.  Doesn't matter, the masks claim to do something they have been proven to not do, any effect they are having is basically a placebo effect.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Jun 18, 2015)

As DD, Elder999 and Andrew have said this product does not do what it claims. 
Do not and I repeat, do not waste your time with one!


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## Buka (Jun 18, 2015)

I don't know anything about masks. But I did enjoy Dirty Dog's list  and with his knowledge, that's all I need to know.

But altitude training I'm more than a little familiar with. Lived at 4,000 feet for ten years, and used to go to the top of the mountain twice a week and work out at 10,023 feet. Helped us develop killer cardio. Not a bad view, either.
My wife...


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## elder999 (Jun 18, 2015)

I live at 7000 ft-for a while, we lived at 8200 ft.....but I've been at 6500 or above since 1993......makes getting a good workout in at sea level kind of a challenge, even now....


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## drop bear (Jun 19, 2015)

My fitness coach uses them. This is his take on it.

"Yeah man, few different theories on it. It's supposed to make your body work (or apparently work) with a reduced level of oxygen available. This meaning that if you can keep the intensity as high as possible with about 50% less oxygen, your conditioning is much much better with normal access to air. Therefore it helps your body process oxygen into the bloodstream as efficiently and effectively as possible. It's had people claim that because you're gasping for breaths when wearing it and labouring to keep filling your lungs up, it strengthens your lungs also... I've found it to do a couple of those things but I haven't measured test results. 

 Personally, I've liked it for the mental challenge that comes with keeping your breathing under control as much as possible. If you start to panic or lose your breathing rhythm, it's very hard not to rip the thing off...

 On the negative side, I've heard some people say that they reckon it trains your body to only work at about 75% of its optimal output because you're not utilising every bit of your lung capacity. They reckon that because your purposely handicapping yourself, you're repetitively practicing working at 75% of your max...

 I like it, but it needs to be used on and off doing the same routines so you have the best of both scenarios..."


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## Juany118 (Jul 5, 2016)

ali55 said:


> Awesome training tool. Highly recommend



Actually they aren't that good.  You feel like there was improvement but only because with the mask on you basically become hypoxic, so of course if you perform similar tasks without the mask you feel better, stronger, because you are getting the oxygen you should.

The two types of altitude "training" that works.  1. Training at altitude.  As little as a week can produce a benefit but 4 weeks is ideal as it is in the 4th week, on average, where the "real" adaptation takes place.  2. Altitude tents work, but not as well.  The density of air is still the same but it works by using a machine to replace some of the oxygen with nitrogen. However to get the added benefit you need to spend about three weeks in the tent at about 12 hours a day to get benefits marginally less than the 1 week at altitude.

My proof?  Not just numerous studies but a personal experiment.  I am also a cyclist.  I use a heart rate monitor and a power meter, all of the data for years of cycling is saved on both my computer and on an online account.  I trained with the mask as recommended.  I did feel "better" after training with the mask but here is the rub.  I compared post mask performance with the heart rate and power meter data to the same period of my season the previous year.  There was no change, of any statistical value, between to two periods.

Numbers don't lie.


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## Charlemagne (Jul 5, 2016)

Live high, train low, is still what the majority of research says, though there are some times when training high is appropriate, such as if you are going to be competing at altitude in the not too distant future.  At altitude, the partial pressure of oxygen is lower, which diminishes one's VO2max.  As such, what feels like training at 85% of your capacity, is actually much lower.  In layman's terms, it feels hard, but you are actually doing less work.  

In regards to masks, perhaps additional investigations will show something different, but the data I have seen so far on the altitude masks is not promising at all.  This makes sense when you consider how the body actually works.  Minute Ventilation (break frequency x tidal volume) is only a predictor for aerobic performance in some of the most elite endurance athletes, and even then not always from the data I have seen. Persons who are not in that elite status of endurance show little if any predictive relationship between the amount of air moved and aerobic performance variables.


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## Kickboxer101 (Jul 11, 2016)

I hate all that stuff it's all money making gimmicks you don't need all that suff to get good cardio all you need is a pair of running shoes


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