# Most important thing



## theletch1 (Aug 31, 2008)

What, in your opinion, is the most important thing/attribute for an aikido-ka to possess?  Is it physicality?  Is it spirituality? Is it a killer instinct?


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## bluekey88 (Aug 31, 2008)

yes.


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## theletch1 (Aug 31, 2008)

:lfao:  Perfect answer.  I was waiting for the inevitable "it depends on the artist" answer but that one is cryptic enough to suit. 

Personally, I think it really depends on the specific type of aikido and what the individual wants to get from the art.


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## tshadowchaser (Sep 1, 2008)

A open mind and a willingness to learn


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## EternalAspirer (Sep 5, 2008)

I don't think a 'killer instinct' is at all what an aikido-ka should possess...indeed, it seems quite contrary to the concepts of aikido. 
I might say physicality, if I knew concretely what you meant by that. But basically I would say that an aikido-ka should have above all things a sense of open, calm readiness. Because aikido is about being centered and the flowing of energy around that center, an aikido-ka should feel himself at the center of things, with perfect balance, ready to accept any strike that should come his way, and deal with it calmly.


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## celtic_crippler (Sep 5, 2008)

tshadowchaser said:


> A open mind and a willingness to learn


 
What they said....regardless of style/system a willingness to learn (which requires a level of humility) is essential to become better.


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## charyuop (Sep 5, 2008)

celtic_crippler said:


> What they said....regardless of style/system a willingness to learn (which requires a level of humility) is essential to become better.



Trust I wish it was true, I really wish it....


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## Yari (Sep 8, 2008)

Ohhh can't helkp myself....... Killer instinct...... has to be. Though I might be strechting the definition (a bit).

My thoughs are not clear here, but I'll jot them down for discussion sake.

I think that to be able to do somthing good, you have to understand it and maybe even "tried" i( you don't have to brak your back to understand that its a bad thing, but if you break a leg you might better understand what an handicap might mean to you).

On the other hand if you wish to evolve, you will be moving towards somthing you probably "dont" understand, but you find as a good direction.

No matter; your though of mind defines how good your "aikido" will be. It will define your spirital and physical state.

I believe that harmony and love ( and other such fluffy nicey things) includes ruff things like breaking arms / death and such. Not saying that it only has the "negativ" things.

To be able to do "good" things you have to have a understanding of the "bad" things.

So the important thing is "killer instinct", or your "aikido" would only be a fluffy thingy.

;-)

/Yari


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## teekin (Oct 9, 2008)

I have done some research on Aikido and the idea of the "blend" is wonderful and makes intuitive sense to me. I can often find that moment in any encounter. 
 I must ask, why does the ability to understand the worst humans have to offer translate into "killer instinct". A soldier I am very very fond of has had occasion to beat other combatants to death with his fists ( described to me in vivid technicolor while he was wasted) as they were going to rape a child the same age as his daughter. I understand it, it sickens me, but I wouldn't have stopped him. 
 What does the ability to understand the worst of human nature have to do with the ability to blend and refocus/redirect energy?
What am I missing here?
Lori


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## theletch1 (Oct 9, 2008)

There is a continuum of force to be applied in any altercation that can run the gamut from simply stepping aside all the way to having to kill another human being.  It will depend on the will of your attacker to continue the attack.  Being able to understand the "killer instinct" will help you understand your enemy.  Being able to access that same instinct yourself will (hopefully) keep you from faltering at that last crucial instant when a kill is absolutely needed.  Your friend, and many like him (I include myself in that) have had occasion to truly find out if they have that ability to carry through with something that is certainly considered taboo in our society.  IMHO, the ability to understand the worst that the human animal has to offer translates to "killer instinct" because many humans have not evolved much beyond operating on instinct as we did thousands of years ago.  It's a yin and yang thing.  The light has no meaning without the dark.  Good means nothing without evil and so on.  Thoughts?


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## kaizasosei (Oct 9, 2008)

in my opinion, -precision-

j


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## teekin (Oct 9, 2008)

Well as I said given the circumstances I would not have stopped him, I would not have held the guy down, but nor would have interfered or stopped him from killing the others. I agree that the brighter the light the darker the black. This seems to be true in most people but vividly so in warriors. Combat seems to widen the gap between yin and yang. They need to able to access the reptile and use it to it's full potential. 
 Perhaps some one can tell me if MA helps them keep the reptile under control? Does Akido with it's emphasis on the blend and redirection help you control the violence?
lori


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## kaizasosei (Oct 9, 2008)

i think it has lots to do with leading and following.

people follow only to lead and lead only to follow.  it's like a hunt.  but hunting in essence is fairly animalistic.  to be human, one must be mentaly sound as well as independant as possible.  of course, through our center the hara, we are all connected and our centers are the source of our physical and spiritual power.

and that is just without physical contact.  

i think, the closer the encounter and the more benevolent, the greater the reward of aiki.  for example, wrestling without striking.

i am really impressed by the above ideas you have shared.


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## morph4me (Oct 9, 2008)

Grendel308 said:


> Well as I said given the circumstances I would not have stopped him, I would not have held the guy down, but nor would have interfered or stopped him from killing the others. I agree that the brighter the light the darker the black. This seems to be true in most people but vividly so in warriors. Combat seems to widen the gap between yin and yang. They need to able to access the reptile and use it to it's full potential.
> Perhaps some one can tell me if MA helps them keep the reptile under control? Does Akido with it's emphasis on the blend and redirection help you control the violence?
> lori


 
I can tell you that Aikido has helped me keep the reptile under control. I've come to understand the continuum of force better as my skill has increased. At one time my attitude was to do the most damage in the least amount of time and maybe throw in a little extra for punitive measures. The more skillful I've become the more my attitude has changed, I think I'm less likely to go farther than necessary to do what is necessary.


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## girlbug2 (Oct 9, 2008)

Pants. Which are tied so they don't fall down during kata.


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## morph4me (Oct 9, 2008)

I think the most important thing for an aikido-ka is the ability to relax and feel the energy given and a sense of centerdness and balance.


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## Yari (Oct 10, 2008)

Grendel308 said:


> I have done some research on Aikido and the idea of the "blend" is wonderful and makes intuitive sense to me. I can often find that moment in any encounter.


I belive in that too, but this momentum is neither "good" or "bad". It's a way of handling an issue. If its the right way or not is not defined by how you see it, but how the result is, and that is how your "oppponent" sees it too.



> What does the ability to understand the worst of human nature have to do with the ability to blend and refocus/redirect energy?
> What am I missing here?
> Lori


 
I think your comparing to different things, just my view on it. Your comparing a moral action/thought to a way of moving. The "moral" in killer instinct is to kill. There is no moral in the way you move, it's just a way of movement. Put another way , your way of movement is deadly, but it's a question of mentallity.

/Yari


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## teekin (Oct 10, 2008)

morph4me said:


> I can tell you that Aikido has helped me keep the reptile under control. I've come to understand the continuum of force better as my skill has increased. *At one time my attitude was to do the most damage in the least amount of time and maybe throw in a little extra for punitive measures. The more skillful I've become the more my attitude has changed, I think I'm less likely to go farther than necessary to do what is necessary*.


 
I have allways thought of my reptile as "The Red Queen" out of Alice Through the Looking Glass.  She has no morals or scuples, is completely asocial and will do whatever it takes to keep me safe. She is the one who I would turn to in the screaming room, who keeps me tough and going forward no matter what or who is in my way. I need her for the road ahead.
 But she meets violence with violence, do the most damage in the least time with no regard for the aftermath or the wreckage left behind. Quite the slash and burn policy. This aspect will carry over to daily life and I can become less than pleasent to deal with.
 The better option seems to be to lock the Red Queen away and not have to deal with the carnage. It does however deprive me of her strength. I think the word I am looking for is "Balance", right?
 Perhaps this is why Aikido and the blend are drawing me. Any thoughts or observations are greatly appreciated. Thanks much for sharing and wisdom. humbly
lori


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## theletch1 (Oct 11, 2008)

Grendel308 said:


> I have allways thought of my reptile as "The Red Queen" out of Alice Through the Looking Glass.  She has no morals or scuples, is completely asocial and will do whatever it takes to keep me safe. She is the one who I would turn to in the screaming room, who keeps me tough and going forward no matter what or who is in my way. I need her for the road ahead.
> But she meets violence with violence, do the most damage in the least time with no regard for the aftermath or the wreckage left behind. Quite the slash and burn policy. This aspect will carry over to daily life and I can become less than pleasent to deal with.
> The better option seems to be to lock the Red Queen away and not have to deal with the carnage. It does however deprive me of her strength. I think the word I am looking for is "Balance", right?
> Perhaps this is why Aikido and the blend are drawing me. Any thoughts or observations are greatly appreciated. Thanks much for sharing and wisdom. humbly
> lori


As Tom said in his post it's about going further than necessary to accomplish your defense.  That doesn't mean that he isn't prepared to utterly destroy an attacker or even to kill an attacker in defense of himself or others.  The choice is in the hands of the attacker.  The big thing about the blend is entering into the attackers space and matching his speed. Becoming the center of the hurricane, as my instructor likes to say. That's the physical side of it.  The mental side of the blend is only a little different in that you aren't expected to become enraged like your attacker but should remain the calm center of the situation.  Where you have to match the attacker mentally is the point of how far does this damage need to go.  It's the continuum of force again.  If the attacker simply refuses to cease regardless of the damage that you are inflicting upon them, then and only then, would you kill that person instead of using the "Red Queen" analogy of "kill 'em all".  I have a ton more on this going through my head right now.  Once my first pot of coffee kicks in (yes, I said 1st pot) I should be able to be a bit more clear.


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## morph4me (Oct 11, 2008)

It's about options, if all you have is a red queen that's the only card you can play. Having access to the red ueen is very important, she's a necessary and useful component, it's just a matter of adding more cards so you have a choice of which ones to play, and realizing you can win the hand without playing the queen, unless you really need her.


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## teekin (Oct 11, 2008)

theletch1 said:


> As Tom said in his post it's about going further than necessary to accomplish your defense.  That doesn't mean that he isn't prepared to utterly destroy an attacker or even to kill an attacker in defense of himself or others.  The choice is in the hands of the attacker.  The big thing about the blend is entering into the attackers space and matching his speed. Becoming the center of the hurricane, as my instructor likes to say. That's the physical side of it.  The mental side of the blend is only a little different in that *you aren't expected to become enraged like your attacker but should remain the calm center of the situation. * Where you have to match the attacker mentally is the point of how far does this damage need to go.  It's the continuum of force again.  If the attacker simply refuses to cease regardless of the damage that you are inflicting upon them, then and only then, would you kill that person instead of using the "Red Queen" analogy of "kill 'em all".  I have a ton more on this going through my head right now.  Once my first pot of coffee kicks in (yes, I said 1st pot) I should be able to be a bit more clear.



Oddly enough rage is not ever in the picture, that would be a distraction. In order to be efficient a coldness drops, there is no emotion at all, just analysis of what to target; physically, mentally and emotionally to achieve the goal. Often the goal is to shatter, to leave lasting scars, permenant reminders to not to try me again. The Red Queen wants anyone who crosses her to suffer. ( hmmmmm, perhaps there is rage there after all, just very very controlled focused rage. What an interesting idea.) When pushed, most particularly in a physical way, I have little control of the Red Queen. I do not play her, she just takes over. My choices thus far are to deal with the aftermath (damage control) or lock her away and not be aggressive AT ALL. At this point not being aggressive is an unrealistic option so I need to find a more tools. I thank you guys for your insights, I do appreciate them a great deal.
lori


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