# Martial Arts in Fantasy/Sci-Fi Part 2 - Legendary Swords



## skribs (Mar 15, 2018)

The fictional scenario:  Johnny Dragonhunter has the Flamebreaker, a sword that's been in his family for 700 years.  The Flamebreaker has been used to slay tens of thousands of dragons over its lifetime.  It was an honor for Johnny to receive this family heirloom as his birthright when he, the eldest son of his father, turned 18.  With the sword in his hand, he knows he will not fail in a dragon hunt.  The others in his hunting party have their morale bolstered with this legendary sword in their midst.

Here's my question, and I wasn't sure if this should go into OT (since we're talking about fantasy) or in the weapon's forum, because the question comes from fantasy but is based on real world physics:

How does a functional sword stay functional this long?  There are thousands of stories out there where the hero has a sword that's been in the family for generations, used in hundreds or thousands of battles, and yet the sword is still battle ready. 

My understanding of swords is that as they hit armor and bone, they chip and dull, just like any other edge.  When they chip and dull, the only way to restore their edge is to sharpen it, and a whetstone will only remove material, so after several battles a sword will become lighter, thinner, and weaker, to the point it will eventually become useless and need to be replaced.

So how would Johnny Dragonhunter's sword have served his family for several hundred years?  What would need to happen in order for the sword to stay in fighting shape?  What should Johnny do to keep his sword in shape, or how should he repair the sword if it is past the point where a sharpening stone would fix the problem, but he doesn't want to take away from the legendary status of the weapon?


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## Gerry Seymour (Mar 15, 2018)

skribs said:


> The fictional scenario:  Johnny Dragonhunter has the Flamebreaker, a sword that's been in his family for 700 years.  The Flamebreaker has been used to slay tens of thousands of dragons over its lifetime.  It was an honor for Johnny to receive this family heirloom as his birthright when he, the eldest son of his father, turned 18.  With the sword in his hand, he knows he will not fail in a dragon hunt.  The others in his hunting party have their morale bolstered with this legendary sword in their midst.
> 
> Here's my question, and I wasn't sure if this should go into OT (since we're talking about fantasy) or in the weapon's forum, because the question comes from fantasy but is based on real world physics:
> 
> ...


Working off some pretty thin knowledge here, so ignore anything here that the weapon experts contradict when they post.

If the sword got too damaged to use, I think the only choice is to re-forge it and add material. As for keeping it in good shape, remember that the sword is just the blade if it's made in the traditional Japanese style. The grip/hilt, bindings, and guard (tsuba, IIRC) are all replaceable. He would likely keep it oiled and might occasionally polish it. When not in use, perhaps it would be kept in an oiled cloth.

Of course, since it's a fantasy story, some simple expediencies can be taken. If magic enters this story, then there might be runic carvings on the sword that protect it. Perhaps master blacksmiths work with magic that allows them to repair a sword without re-forging. If you use either of these, be sure to temper them (no pun intended) with difficulty. It bugs me when a sword simply cannot be made dull because of a spell cast 1,000 years ago or is entirely unbreakable, or when a broken sword is repaired in a day with a quick and simple spell. All of that takes too much struggle out of the story and makes the world seem superficial.

One other note: if the sword is 700 years old and has killed tens of thousands of dragons, that means it has been used to kill 30+ dragons per year, on average (30*700=21,000). That seems excessive. Unless dragons are simple kills and quite plentiful, even a dragon a year seems excessive.


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## AngryHobbit (Mar 15, 2018)

gpseymour said:


> One other note: if the sword is 700 years old and has killed tens of thousands of dragons, that means it has been used to kill 30+ dragons per year, on average (30*700=21,000). That seems excessive. Unless dragons are simple kills and quite plentiful, even a dragon a year seems excessive.



30+ dragons a year, let's make a nice, convenient number 36. So, that's 6 dragons a month. A dragon killed every five days. That's how dragons end up on the endangered species list!


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## skribs (Mar 15, 2018)

gpseymour said:


> Working off some pretty thin knowledge here, so ignore anything here that the weapon experts contradict when they post.
> 
> If the sword got too damaged to use, I think the only choice is to re-forge it and add material. As for keeping it in good shape, remember that the sword is just the blade if it's made in the traditional Japanese style. The grip/hilt, bindings, and guard (tsuba, IIRC) are all replaceable. He would likely keep it oiled and might occasionally polish it. When not in use, perhaps it would be kept in an oiled cloth.
> 
> ...



This was just an example to show that the sword has been heavily used.  And maybe a lot of those dragons were in one battle.  Plus, it's a legendary sword!  This wasn't a story I'm writing, just something I wrote to set the "legendary sword, hundreds of years old, been used in battle regularly" criteria.

As to your point about magic, I was trying to avoid that.  I mean, that's easy enough to write in.  And I don't think that an unbreakable sword takes too much struggle out of the story...there's still the whole battle vs. evil.


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## skribs (Mar 15, 2018)

To add:

I am thinking of magic in the other way.  That the history of the blade makes it stronger, whether the blacksmith who initially forged it imbued it with properties to make the sword or the swordsman better in combat, or that the more a blade becomes legendary, the more power it holds, and that reforging the sword would dull that history.


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## AngryHobbit (Mar 15, 2018)

skribs said:


> The fictional scenario:  Johnny Dragonhunter has the Flamebreaker, a sword that's been in his family for 700 years.  The Flamebreaker has been used to slay tens of thousands of dragons over its lifetime.  It was an honor for Johnny to receive this family heirloom as his birthright when he, the eldest son of his father, turned 18.  With the sword in his hand, he knows he will not fail in a dragon hunt.  The others in his hunting party have their morale bolstered with this legendary sword in their midst.
> 
> Here's my question, and I wasn't sure if this should go into OT (since we're talking about fantasy) or in the weapon's forum, because the question comes from fantasy but is based on real world physics:
> 
> ...



Since we are specifically talking about dragon hunting, it would stand to reason the sword has been exposed to great blasts of extreme heat. Having studied thermodynamics, heat transfer, fluid dynamics, and transport phenomenon, my concern would be the cumulative impact of heat and thermal expansion on the sword's structure. 

While heating and cooling in the manufacturing process, carried out in appropriate quantities by a skilled sword maker, serves to temper and improve the weapon, repeated heating and cooling without any consistency (I assume the dragons do not have any sort of regulation mechanism for their firebreathing temperature, do they?), combined with the slicing and dicing associated with dragon slaughtering, is bound to result in stress points all along the sword's blade. 

Considering dragon scales are reputed to be exceedingly tough, there would be some dents on the sword's working surfaces - microscopic at first, but certain to expand and create areas of weakness due to repeated heating and cooling when trying to struggle through and possibly deflect the dragon flames. 

If we assume the material the sword is made of is some type of steel - an alloy of iron, carbon, and other additives, depending on the desired properties - repeated heating will cause the material balance within the alloy to shift, more carbon will be absorbed, making the overall structure more fragile. 

@gpseymour , am I overthinking this?


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## skribs (Mar 15, 2018)

AngryHobbit said:


> Since we are specifically talking about dragon hunting, it would stand to reason the sword has been exposed to great blasts of extreme heat. Having studied thermodynamics, heat transfer, fluid dynamics, and transport phenomenon, my concern would be the cumulative impact of heat and thermal expansion on the sword's structure.
> 
> While heating and cooling in the manufacturing process, carried out in appropriate quantities by a skilled sword maker, serves to temper and improve the weapon, repeated heating and cooling without any consistency (I assume the dragons do not have any sort of regulation mechanism for their firebreathing temperature, do they?), combined with the slicing and dicing associated with dragon slaughtering, is bound to result in stress points all along the sword's blade.
> 
> ...



You are WAY overthinking this....but keep going.  How would one keep the blade in fighting shape against those stressors?

Also, don't be bogged down by my description of it being a dragon-hunting blade.  Like I said, my criteria is basically that its really old and battleworn.  It could be the Orcslayer, it could be the Undead Deadener, it could just be a world in which humans fight humans (apparently those exist, too).  It's more about the repair of the sword than specifically a dragon-hunter's sword.


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## Gerry Seymour (Mar 15, 2018)

skribs said:


> This was just an example to show that the sword has been heavily used.  And maybe a lot of those dragons were in one battle.  Plus, it's a legendary sword!  This wasn't a story I'm writing, just something I wrote to set the "legendary sword, hundreds of years old, been used in battle regularly" criteria.


I wasn't sure if that was actually part of a story, or just to set up the question. Either way, I like @AngryHobbit 's response.



> As to your point about magic, I was trying to avoid that.  I mean, that's easy enough to write in.  And I don't think that an unbreakable sword takes too much struggle out of the story...there's still the whole battle vs. evil.


If it's to survive 700 years and hundreds of battles, you might need magic. Combine it with what would help a sword survive generations and a dozen battles (which is what I'm hoping the weapon experts will post), and you have a reasonable (for that world) solution. That way the magic isn't "the answer" - it just enhances what can already be done. The reason I don't like magic that solves the problem easily is that for consistency you'd have to extend that to other parts of the world, and it would simply solve too many problems. Characters tend to become unrelatable if all the small problems are solved. Good vs. evil is the big problem, but it's always made more poignant when it involves characters with problems we relate to. That's why Harry Potter had tests to deal with.


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## Gerry Seymour (Mar 15, 2018)

AngryHobbit said:


> @gpseymour , am I overthinking this?


Yes, of course you are. That's what engineers do.

However, it's a good point. One of the ways magic can get involved is in solving the heating/cooling problem. That's the kind of detail that makes a world seem more real to me. Robert Jordan gets into some of those kinds of details in the forging of the Darksword.


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## AngryHobbit (Mar 15, 2018)

skribs said:


> You are WAY overthinking this....but keep going.  How would one keep the blade in fighting shape against those stressors?
> 
> Also, don't be bogged down by my description of it being a dragon-hunting blade.  Like I said, my criteria is basically that its really old and battleworn.  It could be the Orcslayer, it could be the Undead Deadener, it could just be a world in which humans fight humans (apparently those exist, too).  It's more about the repair of the sword than specifically a dragon-hunter's sword.


Well.... you could reforge it in the fires of Mount Doom every 400 - 500 years or so. Provided the original sword maker left behind his exactly formula and process - because the alloy will need tinkering with, to reestablish the correct proportions of all the components. 

Heat is easily the most dangerous stressor when metals are involved. Orcslayer - not a big deal, just keep it honed. And you probably want a heavier blade for orc slaying - since orcs are thickset with big necks and hard skulls. So, you want something with good chopping ability. In Alexander Kuprin's novella _The Duel_ there is a lovely description of practicing a cross-the-body chop, executed by an expert swordsman with a good blade, on a wet clay dummy. Good times! 

Undead Deadener - also not a problem, as long as the slime the undead produce when you cut their heads off is not acidic. If it is - then you have chemical contamination and weakening, with similar risks to thermal damages. You'll want to consider some type of coating to resist the crud. 

The cool thing is - heat also increases the metal's electrical resistance... so... you could stick a sword in front of a fire-breathing dragon, then shove it into the middle of a high-voltage circuit, and cause a really spectacular short-circuit.


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## Gerry Seymour (Mar 15, 2018)

skribs said:


> You are WAY overthinking this....but keep going.  How would one keep the blade in fighting shape against those stressors?
> 
> Also, don't be bogged down by my description of it being a dragon-hunting blade.  Like I said, my criteria is basically that its really old and battleworn.  It could be the Orcslayer, it could be the Undead Deadener, it could just be a world in which humans fight humans (apparently those exist, too).  It's more about the repair of the sword than specifically a dragon-hunter's sword.


Okay, so the stresses are more prosaic with all those other uses, so maybe that is the place to start (and remember the strength-of-materials lesson should you decide to include dragons). Now you're talking about just the dents. I'm not sure about the absorption of additional carbon - that is probably driven by the heating cycle. @AngryHobbit?


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## Gerry Seymour (Mar 15, 2018)

@skribs, you started this thread looking for expert information on sword maintenance and repair. Instead, you got a couple of F&SF nerds who are getting all into the story of the sword.

Now you know who you're dealing with.


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## skribs (Mar 15, 2018)

gpseymour said:


> @skribs, you started this thread looking for expert information on sword maintenance and repair. Instead, you got a couple of F&SF nerds who are getting all into the story of the sword.
> 
> Now you know who you're dealing with.



Yeah I didn't think this through.

Maybe I *should* have made this thread in the weapons forums


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## AngryHobbit (Mar 15, 2018)

gpseymour said:


> Okay, so the stresses are more prosaic with all those other uses, so maybe that is the place to start (and remember the strength-of-materials lesson should you decide to include dragons). Now you're talking about just the dents. I'm not sure about the absorption of additional carbon - that is probably driven by the heating cycle. @AngryHobbit?


Here is a pretty good article on various heat effects when it comes to metal. It's basic but gives you a decent idea. In order to repair a seriously heat-damaged sword, it would have to go through all of the heat treatment methods described in the article - annealing, normalizing, hardening, and tempering. 

How Heating Metal Affects Its Properties | Metal Supermarkets - Steel, Aluminum, Stainless, Hot-Rolled, Cold-Rolled, Alloy, Carbon, Galvanized, Brass, Bronze, Copper


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## AngryHobbit (Mar 15, 2018)

skribs said:


> Yeah I didn't think this through.
> 
> Maybe I *should* have made this thread in the weapons forums


What? I don't see any issue.


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## Gerry Seymour (Mar 15, 2018)

AngryHobbit said:


> Here is a pretty good article on various heat effects when it comes to metal. It's basic but gives you a decent idea. In order to repair a seriously heat-damaged sword, it would have to go through all of the heat treatment methods described in the article - annealing, normalizing, hardening, and tempering.
> 
> How Heating Metal Affects Its Properties | Metal Supermarkets - Steel, Aluminum, Stainless, Hot-Rolled, Cold-Rolled, Alloy, Carbon, Galvanized, Brass, Bronze, Copper


Why isn't there a "too informative" rating?


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## Buka (Mar 15, 2018)

Sting will always remain my favorite mythical sword.


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## pdg (Mar 15, 2018)

Something being forgotten (or more possibly, overlooked)...

A sword is steel, yes.

But no...

It's unlikely a legendary sword would simply be forged from a lump of random steel - we're not talking a wall hanger.

It will be multiple types of steels, folded and forged to get the properties desired. It'll have a hard edge with a much more maleable spine.

Heating may not have as much effect as at first assumed, something like HSS for instance can be heated to glowing red and it'll pretty much maintain it's properties whether you air cool or use a different medium (oil or water). I can grind a lathe tool from HSS until the tip is red, dunk it in water or leave it in air and it'll still cut other steels.

Carbon absorption may or may not happen at temperatures less than making the steel alloy floopy (technical term). Ditto stuff like hydrogen embrittlement. You certainly couldn't hang onto the hilt at the temperatures required.

Heat treatment takes time too, tempering from a hardened state can sometimes be multiple hours.

So yeah, theoretically it's possible, kinda.


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## Anarax (Mar 15, 2018)

skribs said:


> How does a functional sword stay functional this long?


Well, take your comment below into consideration 



skribs said:


> The Flamebreaker has been used to slay tens of thousands of dragons over its lifetime.


There are essentially two ways we can approach this. The metallurgical approach or the Fantasy, but I think it's a bit of both. From a metallurgical standpoint if it's strong enough to either shatter or piece dragon scales, it must be made of an extremely durable metal/alloy. There is also the option of reforging the blade anew to restore it. From a more fantasy standpoint it can be enchanted with magical runes or some other form of magic or it was forged from a metal with naturally occurring magical elements.  



skribs said:


> My understanding of swords is that as they hit armor and bone, they chip and dull, just like any other edge. When they chip and dull, the only way to restore their edge is to sharpen it, and a whetstone will only remove material, so after several battles a sword will become lighter, thinner, and weaker, to the point it will eventually become useless and need to be replaced.


Not exactly, but your touched on important points. Dulling is caused by the edge becoming misaligned and thus won't cut. Think of a papercut, cutting yourself with a crisp piece of paper is very easy to do because the the paper's edge is aligned. However; cutting yourself with wrinkled paper is next to impossible because the edge isn't aligned. The same dynamics apply with blades and swords. There are however instances where you do need to put a new edge on a blade and that does involve removing *some* metal to make it razor sharp. 

Sword vs armor isn't exactly how the movies and tv make it out to be. Very rarely are broadswords used to pierce right through armor, though half-swording(link) was heavily used against armored opponents. Exploiting armor's weaknesses and openings were the main focus when fighting an armored opponent.    



skribs said:


> What would need to happen in order for the sword to stay in fighting shape?


Depending on what it's made of, protecting it from the elements, coating it in some type of protective coating(oil, museum wax, etc) performing maintenance to the pommel, hilt and hand guard.


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## Anarax (Mar 15, 2018)

Every time I read "Magic Runes" my inner reading voice pronounces this way


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## pdg (Mar 15, 2018)

Anarax said:


> if it's strong enough to either shatter or piece dragon scales



That's not how to slay a dragon - doesn't everyone know you get it to rear up and then attack the relatively unprotected armpit?


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## Anarax (Mar 15, 2018)

pdg said:


> That's not how to slay a dragon - doesn't everyone know you get it to rear up and then attack the relatively unprotected armpit?


Depends on the type of dragon, you could also go for the vulnerable area around/below the throat. However; I'm sure the dragon won't just stand there waiting for you to kill it, thus the sword must be strong enough to block attacks as well.


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## skribs (Mar 16, 2018)

Anarax said:


> Sword vs armor isn't exactly how the movies and tv make it out to be. Very rarely are broadswords used to pierce right through armor, though half-swording(link) was heavily used against armored opponents. Exploiting armor's weaknesses and openings were the main focus when fighting an armored opponent.



I assume people also generally miss the open areas and still hit the armor anyway, even if they're not trying to.  Same with the other person's sword or shield.



> Not exactly, but your touched on important points. Dulling is caused by the edge becoming misaligned and thus won't cut. Think of a papercut, cutting yourself with a crisp piece of paper is very easy to do because the the paper's edge is aligned. However; cutting yourself with wrinkled paper is next to impossible because the edge isn't aligned. The same dynamics apply with blades and swords. There are however instances where you do need to put a new edge on a blade and that does involve removing *some* metal to make it razor sharp.



I thought it was just wear on the edge.  I have a box cutter that's been through it's fair share of boxes, and the blade is still straight but it doesn't cut like it used to.


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## drop bear (Mar 16, 2018)

I just google images hundred year old sword. And got thousand year old swords in reasonable knick.


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## drop bear (Mar 16, 2018)

Anarax said:


> Depends on the type of dragon, you could also go for the vulnerable area around/below the throat. However; I'm sure the dragon won't just stand there waiting for you to kill it, thus the sword must be strong enough to block attacks as well.



Ok so I hunted down best ways to kill a dragon and got this.

10 Epic Ways To Slay A Dragon - Listverse

The explosive sheep was the most fun I think.


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## Gerry Seymour (Mar 16, 2018)

drop bear said:


> Ok so I hunted down best ways to kill a dragon and got this.
> 
> 10 Epic Ways To Slay A Dragon - Listverse
> 
> The explosive sheep was the most fun I think.


So you're saying he should have a 700 year old sheep?


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## AngryHobbit (Mar 16, 2018)

gpseymour said:


> Why isn't there a "too informative" rating?


Because there is no such thing as "too informative". Like wizards, who always arrive at exactly the right time, information sought out and provided by me is always in exactly the right amount.


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## AngryHobbit (Mar 16, 2018)

Buka said:


> Sting will always remain my favorite mythical sword.


As a hobbit, I approve of this message!


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## AngryHobbit (Mar 16, 2018)

pdg said:


> Something being forgotten (or more possibly, overlooked)...
> 
> A sword is steel, yes.
> 
> ...


Oh, that's right - I forgot about the hilt! If one specializes in dragons, he or she would need some serious heat-proof gauntlets. Also, let's not forget about the natural stress point where the hilt is attached to the sword. That could get wonky (technical term) if super-heated.


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## AngryHobbit (Mar 16, 2018)

Anarax said:


> Every time I read "Magic Runes" my inner reading voice pronounces this way


For some reason this made me think of this.


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## AngryHobbit (Mar 16, 2018)

drop bear said:


> Ok so I hunted down best ways to kill a dragon and got this.
> 
> 10 Epic Ways To Slay A Dragon - Listverse
> 
> The explosive sheep was the most fun I think.


Number 10 appears to be a bizarre combination of _Joseph and His Amazing Technicolor Dream Coat_ and the true story of Karl the Brave, King of Burgundy, who stuck a big honking diamond into his helmet, chose the position facing the sun, blinding and killing his opponent in single combat. 

Number 8 - forget the dagger ("It's not the size, mate, it's how you use it!"). How the hell did she make it to the shore with all that stuff? Hauling the dagger, the statue, and the dragon, while wearing ceremonial robes? Have you SEEN how big and heavy those robes are? Lifeguard certification level - advanced. 

Number 6 - I think something got confused in translation (as it often happens). A man asks a woman for her girdle to help tame his... dragon? Uh-huh...

Number 4 - dancing aside, it's a little bit helpful to be a god. 

Number 3 - the reason they chained Andromeda to the cliff naked is to spare the dragon the trouble of having to unwrap his lunch. Duh!

Number 2 - so, it's not REALLY seafoam. It's having the god of destruction handy.

Number 1 - YEAH! Exploding sheep. Let's do this!


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## pdg (Mar 16, 2018)

AngryHobbit said:


> Oh, that's right - I forgot about the hilt! If one specializes in dragons, he or she would need some serious heat-proof gauntlets. Also, let's not forget about the natural stress point where the hilt is attached to the sword. That could get wonky (technical term) if super-heated.



If it gets heated to the point of floopy and wonky it's almost a worst case scenario.

Add in a bit of flonkiness and some wibble and you're guaranteed a bad day...


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## Flying Crane (Mar 16, 2018)

AngryHobbit said:


> Oh, that's right - I forgot about the hilt! If one specializes in dragons, he or she would need some serious heat-proof gauntlets. Also, let's not forget about the natural stress point where the hilt is attached to the sword. That could get wonky (technical term) if super-heated.


I’m not sure I understand what you are getting at.  The blade and tang ought to be of single-piece construction, and the tang should be quite robust.  The pieces of the hilt, meaning grip, guard, and pommel are fitted to the tang and can be replaced as components if need be, and depending on how they are secured on.

Your comment sounds to me like you envision the blade as one piece, without a tang, and the hilt is a separate piece that is bolted on, or something...


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## AngryHobbit (Mar 16, 2018)

pdg said:


> If it gets heated to the point of floopy and wonky it's almost a worst case scenario.
> 
> Add in a bit of flonkiness and some wibble and you're guaranteed a bad day...


Not only some wibble but quite possibly also some wobble! That would be really tragic.


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## AngryHobbit (Mar 16, 2018)

Flying Crane said:


> I’m not sure I understand what you are getting at.  The blade and tang ought to be of single-piece construction, and the tang should be quite robust.  The pieces of the hilt, meaning grip, guard, and pommel are fitted to the tang and can be replaced as components if need be, and depending on how they are secured on.
> 
> Your comment sounds to me like you envision the blade as one piece, without a tang, and the hilt is a separate piece that is bolted on, or something...


With blade and tang being a single piece, you still need to attach the hilt somehow. And any point, at which parts meet, no matter how they are fitted, will create a stress point. 

Here is a good basic image - this is the simplest scenario, in which the hilt is all one piece. So, in this case, from the thermal and chemical integrity standpoint, we have a stress area where the cross guard meets the blade. Even if the tang extends to the pommel, there will be some cantilever effect at that exit point. Also, even in this very basic construction, some type of rivet is used to secure the hilt to the tang. These two create natural stress points. 

Basically, anyplace you have two different pieces of anything come together, a vulnerability is created. If we consider any tool, weapon, or mechanism, what are the areas where it gets worn out the most? The edges. The joints. The fasteners. And if we are back to dealing with dragons, the super-heating of the blade and the heat transfer from the blade along the tang to the hilt might not only damage the hand holding the blade but also result in unpredictable chemical and electrical effects between the two materials. It would be interesting to obtain an infrared image of a sword in action, while being exposed to a dragon flame and observe where we have heat and stress concentration.


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## Flying Crane (Mar 16, 2018)

AngryHobbit said:


> With blade and tang being a single piece, you still need to attach the hilt somehow. And any point, at which parts meet, no matter how they are fitted, will create a stress point.
> 
> Here is a good basic image - this is the simplest scenario, in which the hilt is all one piece. So, in this case, from the thermal and chemical integrity standpoint, we have a stress area where the cross guard meets the blade. Even if the tang extends to the pommel, there will be some cantilever effect at that exit point. Also, even in this very basic construction, some type of rivet is used to secure the hilt to the tang. These two create natural stress points.
> 
> Basically, anyplace you have two different pieces of anything come together, a vulnerability is created. If we consider any tool, weapon, or mechanism, what are the areas where it gets worn out the most? The edges. The joints. The fasteners. And if we are back to dealing with dragons, the super-heating of the blade and the heat transfer from the blade along the tang to the hilt might not only damage the hand holding the blade but also result in unpredictable chemical and electrical effects between the two materials. It would be interesting to obtain an infrared image of a sword in action, while being exposed to a dragon flame and observe where we have heat and stress concentration.


Gotcha, that jives with my experience as well.


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## AngryHobbit (Mar 16, 2018)

Flying Crane said:


> Gotcha, that jives with my experience as well.


We had this Strength of Materials professor back in Ukraine - Professor Bardzilovski. He was a total douche - especially with female students. Great scientist though. Wrote totally brilliant problems on the subject - eventually published a book of them. One of the problems was about an I-beam set this deep into a wall, with two different scenarios for how the weight was applied to it (one - hanging off the end, another - with weight evenly distributed along the exposed length of the beam). Electrical current is run through the beam. The question was - how much further the beam would flex in both weight application scenarios under the impact of the electrical current. Sadistic but brilliant. If memory serves, the solution took up something like six or seven handwritten pages. 

He would have LOVED the problem of a sword, its hilt, and the fire-breathing dragon.


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## Flying Crane (Mar 16, 2018)

AngryHobbit said:


> We had this Strength of Materials professor back in Ukraine - Professor Bardzilovski. He was a total douche - especially with female students. Great scientist though. Wrote totally brilliant problems on the subject - eventually published a book of them. One of the problems was about an I-beam set this deep into a wall, with two different scenarios for how the weight was applied to it (one - hanging off the end, another - with weight evenly distributed along the exposed length of the beam). Electrical current is run through the beam. The question was - how much further the beam would flex in both weight application scenarios under the impact of the electrical current. Sadistic but brilliant. If memory serves, the solution took up something like six or seven handwritten pages.
> 
> He would have LOVED the problem of a sword, its hilt, and the fire-breathing dragon.


This is all well above my pay grade, I am afraid.


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## drop bear (Mar 16, 2018)

gpseymour said:


> So you're saying he should have a 700 year old sheep?



That would make the story more interesting than a sword.

Dragon slaying swords are pretty common.


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## Anarax (Mar 17, 2018)

skribs said:


> I assume people also generally miss the open areas and still hit the armor anyway, even if they're not trying to. Same with the other person's sword or shield.


The swords are still forged to be durable enough to strike other swords and armor, but the overall tactic isn't "thrust through any part of the armor". There are entire sword styles that are built around targeting the weak and open areas of armor.



skribs said:


> I thought it was just wear on the edge. I have a box cutter that's been through it's fair share of boxes, and the blade is still straight but it doesn't cut like it used to.


Blade misalignment isn't always visible to the naked eye. Box cutters are usually cheap and aren't made with the same longevity as knives and swords. Hence is why the box cutter blades are usually removable so you can replace them entirely.


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## Anarax (Mar 17, 2018)

drop bear said:


> Ok so I hunted down best ways to kill a dragon and got this.
> 
> 10 Epic Ways To Slay A Dragon - Listverse
> 
> The explosive sheep was the most fun I think.


Very interesting.
I think this would be my favorite method. Skip to 2:45


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## Anarax (Mar 17, 2018)

AngryHobbit said:


> For some reason this made me think of this.


LOL, I thought the same thing.

J.A.R.V.I.S (Ironman's AI) is programmed with a British accent 
F.R.I.D.A.Y(Jarvis's replacement after he became vision) is Irish
I hope S.E.U.M.A.S is the next AI with a thick Northern Scottish accent


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## Steve (Mar 17, 2018)

Buka said:


> Sting will always remain my favorite mythical sword.


Mine will always be Stormbringer.  But Excaliber is a close second.  I'm a sucker for an Arthur story.


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