# Finishing the real naked choke ??



## quasar44 (Jan 23, 2020)

I have had 4 instructors show me 3-4 different finishes and now I am confused 

1) you keep back of hand behind neck and squeeze elbows and drive head forward

2) same set up but you bring and squeeze lats back . Opposite motion 

3) drive forward with head and squeeze lats back while squeezing elbows . This has many forces working and different directions

nothing in BJJ is Easy . Confused


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## quasar44 (Jan 23, 2020)

I meant rear naked lol

I assume they all work 

bringing lats back decreases Space 
Driving head forward decrease space 

seems odd to have 2 opposing motions at same time


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## Tez3 (Jan 23, 2020)

Which works for you? If it works and your opponent doesn't have a defence it doesn't matter which way you do it. Often techniques have to be adjusted for the person using it, I don't do any of the above and still make it work.
BJJ isn't a style where every technique has to be done by every student exactly the same way, it's as I said, adjustable to the height, weight and build of the person using it.
If I were you I'd spend more time practising and less time worrying about so called 'complexities'.


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## wab25 (Jan 23, 2020)

Tez3 said:


> it's as I said, adjustable to the height, weight and build of the person using it.


I agree with this... but wanted to add that the differences of your opponent need to also be factored in. When you are the short guy all the time, you may favor one way of doing it... when suddenly you are the tall guy in the match, you may need to make further adjustment. The better you are at adjusting, the better you will be at applying the technique. The more you understand the core of the technique, the better you will be able to adjust it. 

Note: the 3 or 4 finishes listed in the OP are details, not the core of the technique. They all lead to the core of the technique, but they are what Tez is calling the 'complexities.'


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## Danny T (Jan 23, 2020)

Do you know What the purpose of the RNC is and what fundamental things need to happen in order to apply a RNC? 
IF you have that information and are able to apply them then the rest are different options available to finish it. There is more to the RNC than just wrapping your arm around the neck. Where is your elbow and Why is it there? What happens if it isn't where it needs to be and Why? Where is the hand of the choking arm and Why is it there? If you don't know these then you may have difficult applying properly and finishing.


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## Tez3 (Jan 23, 2020)

wab25 said:


> They all lead to the core of the technique, but they are what Tez is calling the 'complexities.'




I was paraphrasing the OP when I called them complexities as many of his posts are about his difficulties with certain martial arts such as Judo and TKD because they are too 'complex' for him.

Your other points are totally spot on though, should have mentioned them myself but you did a better job. 



Danny T said:


> Do you know What the purpose of the RNC is and what fundamental things need to happen in order to apply a RNC?



I doubt it because he is in a class for experienced BJJer's although he's a beginner. I think that's why he's finding everything so difficult.


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## Danny T (Jan 23, 2020)

Tez3 said:


> I doubt it because he is in a class for experienced BJJer's although he's a beginner. I think that's why he's finding everything so difficult.


Yes ma'am, I agee.


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## quasar44 (Jan 23, 2020)

I am doing the beg class tonight !!

When I did Krav Maga it was every technique is done this way 

in BJJ it seems more concepts with huge variation


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## quasar44 (Jan 23, 2020)

I watched videos on ytube a ton 
And half did it going forward and half back

so both work


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## Tez3 (Jan 23, 2020)

quasar44 said:


> I watched videos on ytube a ton
> And half did it going forward and half back
> 
> so both work




Have you considered answering everything on just one post? You can multi-quote.

Another thing to consider is that you should stop comparing KM with BJJ and take each as it's own style preferably not confuse the two. As the human body only does certain things you will find similar techniques in all martial arts. And we say there's variations and why in BJJ. Have you looked up it's history yet and that of Judo?


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## wab25 (Jan 23, 2020)

quasar44 said:


> When I did Krav Maga it was every technique is done this way
> 
> in BJJ it seems more concepts with huge variation


The variation and adjustment thing is part of all arts. Sure, you can study arts with lots of forms or kata, and people get all crazy about exactly what angle and position everything is, and if you are not a carbon copy, then you are doing it wrong. However, as soon as you introduce resistance, then the adjustments and variation need to take place. The form, kata or drill should be done in order to study the core components. Ideally, if you really have the core components and an understanding what you are doing and why... the adjustments and variations become second nature.

When doing kata / form based arts, the problem is that people forget to look deep to find the core concepts of the movements they are practicing. If you stay at a surface level, it gets very confusing and very hard to understand how what you practice relates to what you doing against resistance. Making adjustments and variations is then also hard. 

When doing an art where they don't study kata / forms, but go straight to the applicable techniques... people have the same problem of not looking deep to understand the core components of what the techniques are working on. Again, it then gets confusing and frustrating when resistance is added because you never get the opportunity to use the exact drill you practiced. Without knowing the core concepts, its hard know how to make the necessary adjustments and variations.

These two types of training are really trying to solve the same problem. How to teach and pass on the core concepts in an effective manner. Some people learn one way better, some learn the other way better. No matter what style you choose to train, you need to go beyond surface level to understand the core concepts. And you need to get out of the drills and meet some resistance.


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## JP3 (Jan 23, 2020)

quasar44 said:


> I have had 4 instructors show me 3-4 different finishes and now I am confused
> 
> 1) you keep back of hand behind neck and squeeze elbows and drive head forward
> 
> ...


Options & variations...

For me, hadaka-jime is best when the very slightest of bicep contraction of the arm around the neck causes the blood strangle.  All those other things are things you can do when you really don't have it "in there" quite right. If it's in right & tight, it takes very little effort to get the tap or cause unconsciousness if the guy refuses to tap... or he doesn't feel it oming on in time. That can be  thing, too.


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## quasar44 (Jan 23, 2020)

I am going to keep it super tight then push forward 
If fails , then I will pull back with lats 

so I can chain together 2 variations 
Or vice versa

also did the one arm choke : I have always done it as trachea choke but coach wants it as blood choke . It just depends where you put the crook of your elbow


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## drop bear (Jan 23, 2020)

Elbows together and compress forward rather than try to pull the head off.

You are not really squeezing so much as trying to lock your body in progressively tighter.


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## dunc (Jan 24, 2020)

A little rotation at the end works wonders too


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## quasar44 (Jan 24, 2020)

dunc said:


> A little rotation at the end works wonders too



That famous BJJ Dahmer does his with massive Elbow rotation


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## Tez3 (Jan 24, 2020)

quasar44 said:


> That famous BJJ Dahmer does his with massive Elbow rotation



Well, good for him but* you* have to make it work for* you*.


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## quasar44 (Jan 24, 2020)

drop bear said:


> Elbows together and compress forward rather than try to pull the head off.
> 
> You are not really squeezing so much as trying to lock your body in progressively tighter.



I tried in both ways On myself 
Pulling lats back does put more pressure


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## drop bear (Jan 24, 2020)

quasar44 said:


> I tried in both ways On myself
> Pulling lats back does put more pressure



On yourself?


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Jan 24, 2020)

quasar44 said:


> I tried in both ways On myself
> Pulling lats back does put more pressure


All I'm picturing is the scene from the office where dwight fights himself during a karate 'seminar'.


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## quasar44 (Jan 24, 2020)

drop bear said:


> On yourself?



yes ..lol 
Just to feel the pressure difference lol 
I also did one arm and gable grip chokes on myself to feel pressure and where the space closes


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## quasar44 (Jan 24, 2020)

I can’t choke myself out and I wanted to see how the space closed based on what I learned in class


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## quasar44 (Jan 24, 2020)

I am an odd guy as you may have noticed lol


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## Martial D (Jan 24, 2020)

quasar44 said:


> I have had 4 instructors show me 3-4 different finishes and now I am confused
> 
> 1) you keep back of hand behind neck and squeeze elbows and drive head forward
> 
> ...


Yes


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## Buka (Jan 24, 2020)

I think I get it now. If I hold my hands and elbows a certain way it feels like somebody else is choking the chicken.

I guess all roads do indeed lead to Rome.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Jan 24, 2020)

Buka said:


> it feels like somebody else is choking the chicken.


Umm...


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## Gerry Seymour (Jan 24, 2020)

quasar44 said:


> I am doing the beg class tonight !!
> 
> When I did Krav Maga it was every technique is done this way
> 
> in BJJ it seems more concepts with huge variation


That's because most techniques actually work across a pretty wide range of variation..........so long as you understand and apply the key principles.


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## Gerry Seymour (Jan 24, 2020)

wab25 said:


> The variation and adjustment thing is part of all arts. Sure, you can study arts with lots of forms or kata, and people get all crazy about exactly what angle and position everything is, and if you are not a carbon copy, then you are doing it wrong. However, as soon as you introduce resistance, then the adjustments and variation need to take place. The form, kata or drill should be done in order to study the core components. Ideally, if you really have the core components and an understanding what you are doing and why... the adjustments and variations become second nature.
> 
> When doing kata / form based arts, the problem is that people forget to look deep to find the core concepts of the movements they are practicing. If you stay at a surface level, it gets very confusing and very hard to understand how what you practice relates to what you doing against resistance. Making adjustments and variations is then also hard.
> 
> ...


Well stated.


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## Gerry Seymour (Jan 24, 2020)

quasar44 said:


> I am an odd guy as you may have noticed lol


You keep making that point. Many of us on here are older.


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## JP3 (Jan 24, 2020)

quasar44 said:


> I am going to keep it super tight then push forward
> If fails , then I will pull back with lats
> 
> so I can chain together 2 variations
> ...


Trachea chokes suck and really "shouldn't" be used on the mat just rollin'... they get people quite irritated and they'll want to retaliate in some way... might not be the most sporting thing to do while training with your buddies... that's probably why your coach is trying to get you to not do that.


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## drop bear (Jan 24, 2020)

gpseymour said:


> You keep making that point. Many of us on here are older.



And odder


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## pdg (Jan 25, 2020)

Buka said:


> I think I get it now. If I hold my hands and elbows a certain way it feels like somebody else is choking the chicken.
> 
> I guess all roads do indeed lead to Rome.



Sit on your hand for a bit first so it goes numb...


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