# Kenpo Techniques @ Jkd Seminar



## Michael Billings (Nov 7, 2002)

I had a seminar this weekend as part of the annual push to pay the insurance and property tax on my school.  Associated with me in the same facility is Ray Parra, a JKD instructor training with Danny inosanto for over 30 years.  Although we share the same space we seldom see each others classes due to our schedules.  

I was very suprised to see him teaching a Kenpo technique with a twist.  He did Gift in Return as we do through the passing the hand between the legs, then instead of suppressing the hip and striking, he used his right hand to control the head pushing down while pulling up with his left and throwing the opponent in a somersalt.  This was a TIGHT technique.  I demonstrated our version with strikes and extension.  

He was suprised when he saw our active checking and specifically the suppressing, feeding (gunting?) and occassional slap checks I use.  I have seen other posts about Dan Inosanto doing Dance of Death on a tape circa 1960, but it was very interesting to see where the early techniques of the 60's developed in another lineage.  There were many more similarities as verses differences, but the principles were there and applied correctly, just with different names, and obviously not as sytematized and expanded.  We both do flow drills, hubud for him and me, I flow into contact manipulations and he was strikeing.  I had parry drills he did not have, but were a logical extension of what he did and easily learned; he had the same lock-flow I use, plus some unique counters and releases that were different.

It seems like they start with the flow and incorporate techniques into patterns of movement as appropriate.  In Kenpo we learn a massive number of techniques, so that hopefully by the time you get to my level, the flow is spontaneous and motion is in a gaseous state.  

Am I way off base on this?  It sure looks the same ... with the notable exception that when they gear up it is with boxing gloves, headgear and external groin protectors and full contact is the norm.  Sticks and knives for everyone and there was a fair trade there also.  I focus on leverage, fulcrums, contact manipulations, and contact locks with sticks.  We alternated every 15 or 20 minutes for two 2 hour sessions and had a great time.  Our respect for each other increased dramatically and I hope we can do this again soon.  

I had read this and seen lots of guys on the forums cross training in JKD and Kenpo, or Brazilian ground work or shoot fighting, but it was another thing to see how close we were.  Is this normal for JKD / Kenpo, or was the fact that both of us came from the same era with 30+ years apiece in the Arts the common factor.

-Michael
UKS-Texas


----------



## Roland (Nov 7, 2002)

at my old jujitsu school.

I have also seen a version of Dance of Death, but against a headlock. There were probally a lot more like that, but I only stayed for a year. Lots of fun, but time to move on!


----------



## eternalwhitebelt (Nov 8, 2002)

I have been saying they are great compliments for years.  They blend extremely well together.  I mainly use the the Jkd drills blended with my kenpo principals and techs. more than the other way around.  I am glad to see other people coming around.


----------



## Seig (Nov 8, 2002)

Or could it simply be that Bruce Lee spent a great deal of time with Mr. parker and that Mr. Inosanto was at one time of Mr. Parker's students?  Would they ahve not brought what they learned from him to their art as well?


----------



## Michael Billings (Nov 8, 2002)

I just liked seeing where American Kenpo evolved from, and where Mr. Parker had influenced other systems.  Since I was a LaBounty / Swan / Duffy Chinese Kenpo black belt prior to switching in the mid 80's, I know some of the divergence first hand, but had not seen it in the contect of another system of Martial Arts.  It was way cool!

-Michael
UKS-Texas


----------



## Kirk (Nov 8, 2002)

Wish I could've made it to the seminar!  Keep me in mind as one
to inform whenever you have open sessions up there!


----------



## Elfan (Nov 8, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Seig _
> 
> *Or could it simply be that Bruce Lee spent a great deal of time with Mr. parker and that Mr. Inosanto was at one time of Mr. Parker's students?  Would they ahve not brought what they learned from him to their art as well? *



Mr. Inosanto was a black belt as I recall.


Michael Billings, are their any websites for finding JKD seminars?  I'm not a student of JKD but I would love to attend some seminars with Dan Inosanto or one of his students.


----------



## Michael Billings (Nov 8, 2002)

... after all JKD and cross training are very popular right now.  You may want to ask your question on the JKD thread.  Their first two postings are seminars.  If really interested I can get the Inosanto Academy's number from Ray for you.  Ray gets all over the country almost weekly due to his daytime job.  Might just get lucky, there is a link to his site on my home page.  Click on Academy of Martial Arts for more info.

Link to: 

Inosanto Academy 

I saw this posted:

Nov. 16, 17 2002
Inosanto Seminar, South Carolina

Yours in Kenpo,
-Michael
UKS-Texas


----------



## Sanddragon (Nov 14, 2002)

> Mr. Inosanto was a black belt as I recall.



Yes you are correct Mr. Inosanto was a Black under Mr. Parker.


----------



## Elfan (Nov 14, 2002)

Thanks Michael.


----------



## ProfessorKenpo (Nov 14, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Michael Billings _
> 
> *I had a seminar this weekend as part of the annual push to pay the insurance and property tax on my school.  Associated with me in the same facility is Ray Parra, a JKD instructor training with Danny inosanto for over 30 years.  Although we share the same space we seldom see each others classes due to our schedules.
> 
> ...



Bob Bremer (one of the original JKD students under Bruce and part of the Original Nucleus) walked into my studio one time during a private lesson I was giving and told me I was doing JKD.   I laughed and told him I was still doing Kenpo and he insisted I wasn't.   I then told him of the concepts involved in what we were doing and he stood back and looked kinda funny at me and was amazed at  the similarities in the system.   We then got to delve into the concepts of JKD he's been taught by Bruce and we were on the same page, and same line LOL.   He told me I was doing better JKD than most of the JKD instructors out there.   Hmmm, interesting paradox huh?

Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde


----------



## satans.barber (Nov 14, 2002)

It's my understanding that in JKD, people flow from one style to another, using whatever works best in each situation....so how could anyone look at someone teaching and claim they were doing JKD? Surely, by it's very nature, it would be impossible to tell?

Dan Inosanto says 'Jeet Kune Do is a concept, not a style', maybe I misunderstood what he meant.

Ian.


----------



## ProfessorKenpo (Nov 14, 2002)

> _Originally posted by satans.barber _
> 
> *It's my understanding that in JKD, people flow from one style to another, using whatever works best in each situation....so how could anyone look at someone teaching and claim they were doing JKD? Surely, by it's very nature, it would be impossible to tell?
> 
> ...




To the untrained eye I'm sure it would be difficult.

Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde


----------



## Michael Billings (Nov 14, 2002)

I said similar, not identical.  In Kenpo we flow from one thing to another in our art also.  To the untrained the contact manipulations look like small circle Jui-Jistu, Wally Jay, the founder of Small Circle Jui-Jitsu was a close friend of Mr. Parker.  At long range and in some extensions we focus on kicks, our buckles, especially in the extensions look a lot like the Silat demonstrated at our seminar.  Great fun all around.  

Danny Inosanto also talks about Mr. Parker.  After all, that was his teacher at the time that Mr. Parker introduced Bruce Lee to the World in LA.  He confirms the relationship Bruce Lee had with Mr. Parker, as do Kenpo Black Belts such as Bob Liles and Frank Trejo, who were around the school at that time.  The idea of No Style is much more sophisticated than that.  Kenpo guys generally are familiar with some boxing drills, some flow drills, buckles, etc.  Then to see actual techniques I know for a fact came from the early days of Kenpo, and are still part of the system, show up in JKD, was just cool.  Not good, not bad, cool!  

"You don't make your line longer by cutting another's shorter."

Peace,
-Michael


----------



## gravity (Nov 20, 2002)

Hey,

Isn't there 2 main branches of JKD?
The original and the concepts one....I've read over over the last few years on the web/ mags about the politics between the 2. I'm not too sure what original JKD is, perhaps a mix of wing chun, fencing and boxing. The concepts is based (I think) on kali, silat, wing chun, muay thai plus some other arts....I think thats the one Dan Inosanto practices. I suppose the ideology are similar just the methods are different.

With that said I was wondering about the different branches of kenpo (both in organisations and styles - chinese, EPAK etc), do they share the same ideology with different means of achieving them?

Thanks Kindly

-LATER-


----------



## Kempojujutsu (Nov 21, 2002)

The two JKD branches are nuclus and concepts. I believe Ted Wong is one of the head guys in nuclus awhile Dan Inosanto is concept. The concept jkd is to use what ever style that helps  makes you a better martial artists. In jkd concepts you will see alot of brazilian jujutsu, filipino stick and knife fighting, and muay thai. In jkd nuclus it is about preserving what Bruce Lee taught. They tend to stay on a strict line and try not to vary from what Bruce who have done. It seems to me that both groups are fighting over the cup filled half way up. Some say it is half full, while the other group says it's half empty. Who's right? In my opinion Bruce would not want his group to stay stagnite, not varying from what he taught ie JKD nuclus. He would want them to explorer and find skills that would help each persons fighting skills improve.
Bob     :asian:


----------



## Kempojujutsu (Nov 21, 2002)

In my opinion, you take Kempo/kenpo, JKD, and Krav Maga and any other Martial Arts that does real self defense/combat, and put street clothes on, you probably couldn't tell who was doing Kempo from the guy doing Krav Maga. Sometimes the only way to tell each style apart is the martial art uniform. The style of martial arts is just a name, a name can not help defend you. It is about you, and how you train. Simply put here are three different martial arts, that come from different parts of the world, and they all seem to have some of the same concepts on how to defend yourself. Who cares  what technique came from what style as long as it works and it helps defend you or your love ones.
Bob   :asian:


----------

