# shaolin the wheel of life



## bushidomartialarts (Apr 1, 2006)

saw this today.

'shaolin -- the wheel of life'

think cirque de soleil, only actual monks from the shaolin monastery.

zowie.


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## OnlyAnEgg (Apr 1, 2006)

I thought it was a remarkable show.  I especially liked the last half where they displayed their skills.


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## MartialIntent (Apr 1, 2006)

Came to my litte neck of the woods a number of years back - I enjoyed the "operatic" portrayal of the temple invasion but was even more impressed with the balancing on spear-point "bodily" feats *ouch*.

Shaolin is an explicitly commercial and necessarily modern organisation nowadays but I didn't think the show exploitative in light of that. I mean, they've got money to make too like the rest of us and they're taking the once esoteric art forms to the widest audiences which can only be applauded. And for me, it was still nice to learn the significant history that put Shaolin in the vanguard of progressive martial practices.

Good show.

Respects!


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## Xue Sheng (Apr 1, 2006)

MartialIntent said:
			
		

> Shaolin is an explicitly commercial and necessarily modern organisation nowadays but I didn't think the show exploitative in light of that. I mean, they've got money to make too like the rest of us and they're taking the once esoteric art forms to the widest audiences which can only be applauded. And for me, it was still nice to learn the significant history that put Shaolin in the vanguard of progressive martial practices.
> 
> Good show.
> 
> Respects!


 
I have seen a Shaolin show before and it is very impressive. But remember the monks that you see are there for the show. They are incredibly well trained, but there are many more back in China that are equally well trained that you will never see on stage.

They are more commercial than they use to be but still incredibly well trained in the martial arts and extremely dedicated.


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## theletch1 (Apr 1, 2006)

Saw the show several years ago.  I loved it.  Bought a t-shirt there that night and still wear it now and then.  Every time I do someone asks if I've seen the show and tells me they'd love to see it as well.


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## Kensai (Jun 1, 2006)

Hey guys, anyone here know if/as/and when they're touring in the UK again please? I saw them in 2000, but would like to see them again, as I remember being blown away by them... 

Cheers,

K


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## Drac (Jun 1, 2006)

MartialIntent said:
			
		

> I enjoyed the "operatic" portrayal of the temple invasion but was even more impressed with the balancing on spear-point "bodily" feats *ouch*Respects!


 
Yes that IS impressive..It hurts me just watching it...


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## Jonathan Randall (Jun 1, 2006)

I have to admit that I, personally, didn't care for it as much as I thought I would - although I do respect and admire their athleticism, skill, dedication and performance ability.


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## Xue Sheng (Jun 1, 2006)

Jonathan Randall said:
			
		

> I have to admit that I, personally, didn't care for it as much as I thought I would - although I do respect and admire their athleticism, skill, dedication and performance ability.


 
If they are truly Shaolin, and they are, they are not dedicated performance ability. The ability they have to perform is a side effect of the very hard realistic training they do. 

Believe me they can fight rather well if necessary.


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## AceHBK (Jun 1, 2006)

Xue Sheng said:
			
		

> If they are truly Shaolin, and they are, they are not dedicated performance ability. The ability they have to perform is a side effect of the very hard realistic training they do.
> 
> Believe me they can fight rather well if necessary.


 
Great video.
I should pop it int he dvd again to refresh my memory.

I heard that there are different shaolin monks.  Is this true.  I heard they have monks and then they also have fighting monks.  The fighting monks are the one's who you know can fight and are represented by the circular dots in their head.  Is this true??


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## Kensai (Jun 1, 2006)

Sorry to be a pain guys, but I've checked on t'interweb to see if I can track down new touring dates, but to no avail. Any one else heard when and where they're heading next?


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## Xue Sheng (Jun 1, 2006)

AceHBK said:
			
		

> Great video.
> I should pop it int he dvd again to refresh my memory.
> 
> I heard that there are different shaolin monks. Is this true. I heard they have monks and then they also have fighting monks. The fighting monks are the one's who you know can fight and are represented by the circular dots in their head. Is this true??


 
There are different levels of Shaolin practitioners at the Shaolin Temple, not all end up as monks. 

I believe there is on level referred top as the 7 year monk, not a monk exactly but a Chinese person that studied at Shaolin for 7 years. There are now classes that I believe just about anyone can join and train at Shaolin but you will not be a monk.

But as far as I know if you are a monk from Shaolin you know how to fight rather well.


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## Kensai (Jun 1, 2006)

No new tours planned yet. They've just been round by me not 6 months ago. Birmingham UK that is. It's now Kung Fu Masters? Or something along those lines. Can't believe I missed them... Stupid man...


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## pstarr (Jun 8, 2006)

I watched a Shao-lin show some years back and the alleged monks looked plenty flashy but possessed no real martial skill at all.  They'd had some wushu training  - their chigong was just a bunch of stunts (poorly done at that).  But a very colorful show with lots of smoke and mirrors which impressed the audience.

     I think we need to work out some math here, though...

     The Cultural Revolution kicked off in 1965 and lasted until the mid to late 70's.  During that time, all schools were shut down and institutions (and people) who represented the "old China" were destroyed - in the case of many of the people, they were often "re-educated."

     After Mao regained control of the country, martial arts were held up as a national treasure and, once the government saw how much $$ there was in tourism - particularly with regards to sites such as the razed Shao-lin Temple, they decided to refurbish it and repopulate it (all of the original, surviving monks had either been sent out for re-education or killed).
     So.  Wushu-trained "monks" were installed and the temple was renovated.  And tourism flourished as never before.

     Sadly, what is practiced there nothing close to the original form(s) of Shao-lin boxing.

     Do the math.  If a "monk" - which is an odd thing to be in a communist state (?) - is, say, 40 years old today, he'd have been born in 1966...during the Cultural Revolution.  He wouldn't have even attended school until the age of about ten (1976).
     He allegedly goes to the Temple (how does he get there since no one owns cars and there's no bus service)...but who teaches him?  The original monks are all gone.  All.  Gone.  He can learn wushu from a state-trained/certified "coach" or he can learn from someone who teaches in a local park or something...but not from _real_ Shao-lin monks.

     If he's good enough, he can be admitted to the Temple and he might even become part of some demo team.  But what he's been taught isn't the real thing by a long shot.

     Contemporary Shao-lin has become a tourist trap and little else.  Taekwondo is popular in the area around the Temple because, as one monk put it, "Everyone knows that kung-fu doesn't work."  Quite a statement, coming from a "Shao-lin monk."
     Another one (who has since become famous as a teacher in the U.S.) took up western boxing because he believed that it would teach him how to fight much faster than studying the material taught at Shao-lin.  And considering what's now being taught there, he was right...

     I'm afraid that this post might raise the ire of some folks, but let's get real.  The recent history of China (Cultural Revolution), the math, the fact that China is, after all, a communist state with a pressing need for U.S. dollars (and there's a HUGE martial arts market over here)...take all of it into consideration.


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## Xue Sheng (Jun 8, 2006)

pstarr said:
			
		

> I watched a Shao-lin show some years back and the alleged monks looked plenty flashy but possessed no real martial skill at all. They'd had some wushu training - their chigong was just a bunch of stunts (poorly done at that). But a very colorful show with lots of smoke and mirrors which impressed the audience.
> 
> I think we need to work out some math here, though...
> 
> ...


 
Not questioning your math, but many Chinese question anyone education and training that is currently in there 50s. That is the age group that was most influenced by the Cultural Revolution when it comes to education. They were not required to take any entrance exams and generally they were friends of the party or children of party members.

And as far a Shaolin training it may or may not be the 50 year old and it may be the forty year olds. It depends on whether or not any one was admitted during that time, which is unlikely because martial arts was not high on the list of Mao's promotion list, actually he was pretty much against them. 

But with that being said, many modern Chinese do not look at Wushu like we do, to them Wushu and Kung Fu are one in the same. And the fact that we say a Wushu person is no good or a forms person only they tend to find pretty funny. In some cases, at least in China, there are some people that are considered Wushu here that are pretty effective. 

And when China decided that MA was a good thing they did go searching for actual MA masters if you will. I am not sure how many they actualy found, "the nail that stands up gets pounded down" was pretty nuch the thought of the day, so I am not sure how many voluntered. I believe there was at least on Xingyi guy, Di Gouyong (please for give the spelling) but I am not sure who else.

Now, I am not entirely convinced that a wushu person is as good as a long time student of a traditional Sifu in say Northern mantis not do I feel a wushu person would stand a chance against the average Chinese police office trained in Shanshou (some of those guys are pretty hard core) 

But I do feel that there are many trained in Shaolin today that should be taken seriously.


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## pstarr (Jun 8, 2006)

No doubt, there were a few well-trained people left after the revolution but they were few and far between.  Many never came forth simply because they feared that they'd eventually go through the ringer again.  I can't blame them.

     You're right to some extent about how the Chinese view wushu - although many of them now make a distinction between "traditional" and "contemporary" wushu.  When I was in China, one of the teachers with whom I spoke (he'd led the Beijing Wushu Team to the U.S. in 1973) said that contemporary wushu was only for demonstration, strictly a performing art.

     The real stuff, he said, was being taught in the parks or at people's homes.  But he cautioned me that there were very, very few real "experts" left.  And from what I saw and experienced, he was right.


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## Xue Sheng (Jun 9, 2006)

pstarr said:
			
		

> No doubt, there were a few well-trained people left after the revolution but they were few and far between. Many never came forth simply because they feared that they'd eventually go through the ringer again. I can't blame them.
> 
> You're right to some extent about how the Chinese view wushu - although many of them now make a distinction between "traditional" and "contemporary" wushu. When I was in China, one of the teachers with whom I spoke (he'd led the Beijing Wushu Team to the U.S. in 1973) said that contemporary wushu was only for demonstration, strictly a performing art.
> 
> The real stuff, he said, was being taught in the parks or at people's homes. But he cautioned me that there were very, very few real "experts" left. And from what I saw and experienced, he was right.


 
Currently (in Beijing) there is real stuff being taught in the parks, but not all is what I would consider real, particularly if you are talking Yang Style Tai Chi. hundreds of people doing CMA and some are actually skilled in MA, but not all. The other truly real people are teaching in their home or in a private school. 

And you are absolutely correct, there is a distinction between contemporary and traditional Wushu. Most of the people I talked to did not even seem to be considering contemporary wushu as part of a CMA discussion. But then again I did not talk to that many people about it.


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## pstarr (Jun 9, 2006)

Some years ago when contemporary wushu was all the rage, the traditional wushu people finally stamped their feet down because everyone (even in China) was referring to it simply as "wushu" - which would necessarily refer to martial arts in general.

     The government actually did something right for a change and drew a distinction between contemporary and traditional wushu.

     You're absolutely right about the quality of Taiji taught.  I trained with one of their top teachers when I was there and a number of the fundamental principles he espoused were totally wrong.  Being a bigmouth, I told him (off to one side) that he was dead wrong and showed him why...

    For instance, he insisted that the rear leg of the bow and arrow stance should be locked ramrod straight.  He said the pushing/striking arm of "brush knee and twist step) should likewise be straightened.  And so on.


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## Xue Sheng (Jun 10, 2006)

pstarr said:
			
		

> rear leg of the bow and arrow stance should be locked ramrod straight. He said the pushing/striking arm of "brush knee and twist step) should likewise be straightened. And so on.


 
Yup, part of why I am so fed up with Yang style. 

I saw Chen, Wu, and Yang in Tienten park and Chen, Wu, Sun looked pretty darn good especially Chen

Yang...well that's another story


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