# Is Tang an example of the yin-yang principle?



## Lynne (Jul 30, 2008)

This has been bugging the devil out of me.  I was thinking about ways that yin-yang apply to martial arts.  Is defense to offense an example of the yin-yang priciple?

If the answer is no is it because blocks are really strikes (at least in self-defense)?


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## girlbug2 (Jul 30, 2008)

Can only speak generally, but there is a lot more to defense than blocks. Evasion, using momentum against the opponent -- examples of yin perhaps, to the yang of offense.


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## terryl965 (Jul 30, 2008)

Yin - Yang represent the two opposites of the warrior sides, one being good and humble, the other being a killing machine. One cannot live without the other, we must embrace both to be one of self worth and understanding to all of lifes people.


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## Lynne (Jul 30, 2008)

terryl965 said:


> Yin - Yang represent the two opposites of the warrior sides, one being good and humble, the other being a killing machine. One cannot live without the other, we must embrace both to be one of self worth and understanding to all of lifes people.


 Thank you, Terry.  I have never heard the yin-yang explained related to martial arts.  I've read up on the School of Military Virtue a little and understand what a martial artist is.  Now, the principle makes sense to me regards martial arts (good versus evil, dark versus light wasn't cutting it for me).


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## Xue Sheng (Jul 30, 2008)

Yin Yang
http://www.answers.com/topic/yin-yang-east-asian-mythology 

Taiji (not Taijiquan)


Also in CMA you can attack with either Yin or Yang, but most attack with Yang


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## Lynne (Jul 30, 2008)

Xue Sheng said:


> Yin Yang
> 
> 
> Taiji (not Taijiquan)
> ...


 Hi Xue,

Very interesting.  I read both articles.  I'm trying to figure out attacking with Yang.  Does that mean to attack in an honorable manner since Yang is light?


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## Xue Sheng (Jul 30, 2008)

Lynne said:


> Hi Xue,
> 
> Very interesting. I read both articles. I'm trying to figure out attacking with Yang. Does that mean to attack in an honorable manner since Yang is light?


 
Nope, honorable has nothing to do with it. It is the way the internal energy is used I believe. However I know little about attacking with Yin I just know that there were those that use to specialize in it in old China (well within the last 70 years) and I would not be surprised if some still do. 

Basically in CMA it is balance and that balance is not always immediate, but there are most certainly those that will disagree with that right here on MT and I am not going to get into a debate about it but. You can attack with yang and absorb or deflect with Yin but it is not necessarily a 50/50 thing since you are dealing with an opponent that is also attacking and trying to absorb or redirect. 

Dont get mixed up between Taoist theory of Taiji and Yin and Yang and how that applies to Martial Arts, it is most certainly applicable and it does come form Taoists but it is not always exactly the same thing when you apply it to Martial arts.


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## Lynne (Jul 30, 2008)

Xue Sheng said:


> Nope, honorable has nothing to do with it. It is the way the internal energy is used I believe. However I know little about attacking with Yin I just know that there were those that use to specialize in it in old China (well within the last 70 years) and I would not be surprised if some still do.
> 
> Basically in CMA it is balance and that balance is not always immediate, but there are most certainly those that will disagree with that right here on MT and I am not going to get into a debate about it but&#8230;. You can attack with yang and absorb or deflect with Yin but it is not necessarily a 50/50 thing since you are dealing with an opponent that is also attacking and trying to absorb or redirect.
> 
> Don&#8217;t get mixed up between Taoist theory of &#8220;Taiji&#8221; and &#8220;Yin and Yang&#8221; and how that applies to Martial Arts, it is most certainly applicable and it does come form Taoists but it is not always exactly the same thing when you apply it to Martial arts.


 Thanks for answering, much appreciated.  I will need to study some more.


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## MBuzzy (Jul 30, 2008)

First, I'm curious where the reference to Tang comes in if you wouldn't mind explaining.

As to the concept of Yin and Yang (or Yang and Um in Korean), the concept is relatively abstract.  A lot of it depends on your own interpretation.  The concept represents the dependence of opposites on each other.  This can mean light and dark, block and attack, good and evil, push and pull.  Basically two opposites cannot exist without each other.

I have heard MA interpretations that say each movement represents one or the other, I have also heard that every movement has elements of each.  

The fact that you refer to blocks as defenses shows the concept in my opinion.  A block is simply thrown to stop an attack, a defense is thrown to keep the attacker from continuing.  In this case, I can see a defense having elements of each.  The defensive and offensive.


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## Lynne (Jul 30, 2008)

MBuzzy said:


> First, I'm curious where the reference to Tang comes in if you wouldn't mind explaining.
> 
> As to the concept of Yin and Yang (or Yang and Um in Korean), the concept is relatively abstract. A lot of it depends on your own interpretation. The concept represents the dependence of opposites on each other. This can mean light and dark, block and attack, good and evil, push and pull. Basically two opposites cannot exist without each other.
> 
> ...


 I was looking at the yin-yang symbol and thinking, "Yin-yang are two opposing forces that create balance.  How does yin-yang apply to Tang Soo Do?"  From defense to offense (Tang) immediately popped into my head.  That was just my subconcious working but I have wondered if that's truly an example of the principle.  It seems it would be - someone is attacking and someone is defending.  What about tension and relaxation? Would those terms be an example of the principle?


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## Ninjamom (Jul 30, 2008)

Ahhhh, Tang Soo Do!!!!

I read the thread title and couldn't for the life of me imagine what yin and yang might have to do with an orange-flavored powdered instant drink mix. 

Looking at the symbol of the taiji (or taeguk in Korean), the swirling design implies that yin and yang flow effortlessly and naturally from one to the other.  The form of the symbol with the 'islands' (a small circle of yin contained in the yang side, and vise versa) shows that both yin and yang contain the seed of the other.

In martial arts, I see this most clearly shown in the natural ebb and flow between offense and defense.  A good martial artist will switch effortlessly and imperceptibly between the two, and offensive (and defensive) actions/tactics will include defensive (and offensive) applications.  

I do not practice Tang Soo Do, but I know that in TKD, the basic forms (poomsae/hyung) are based on this concept.  In the Taeguk forms 1 through 8, the line of each form is based on one of the eight tri-grams in the traditional TaeGuk. (Four of these eight tri-grams are found in the corner bars of the Korean flag.)  In each TaeGuk form, the 'solid lines' in a tri-gram are reflected in the forward-stepping, more aggressive (yang) motions, while the broken lines are reflected by stationary or backwards-stepping (yin) motions.


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## Lynne (Jul 30, 2008)

Ninjamom said:


> Ahhhh, Tang Soo Do!!!!
> 
> I read the thread title and couldn't for the life of me imagine what yin and yang might have to do with an orange-flavored powdered instant drink mix.
> 
> ...


 TKD and TSD have strong similarities.  I'm glad you see the flow from defense to offense as being an aspect of yin-yang. I'm not crazy after all.   (Sometimes, I can't see the forest for the trees.)


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