# Tunnel vision and that weird feeling



## Yew (Oct 12, 2008)

How is it overcome?Of course you can feel brave and more confident through training but when the adrenaline starts rushing, your body feels weird and your vision turns blurry as well.And the tunnel vision and wierd feeling cannot be turned off or switched off just by being brave.So how do the rest of you 'get rid' of that feeling so that you can concentrate on what to do with the opponent?


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## newy085 (Oct 12, 2008)

I have found it is something that, through experience, you get better at dealing with. I wouldn't call myself an adrenaline junky, but I put myself in situation to get my adrenaline pumping. My biggest tool for this was my motorbike. I remember the first time I rode one, I got an adrenaline dump, and after a few times it took me pushing harder and harder to get the dump (only on a track, not with others around, lucky I got one 10 minutes away).

Long story short, the more you have to deal with it the better you will at dealing with it. Some people can naturally deal with it better than others, but everyone is different. I think the best thing you can do to see how your body reacts is to go to a sideshow with the rides. Get on the fastest scariest one, and just focus on what your body is doing and how it reacts. The more you undertand about how your body reacts to adrenaline, the better.


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## MBuzzy (Oct 12, 2008)

It can't be stopped, it can only be dealt with, as newy said.  It is a physiological response to adrenaline or loss of blood flow/oxygen flow to the brain.  It is your body's way of reallocating resources as needed.  In extreme stress situations, the same thing happens to ensure that focus is in the right place.  If you notice, your focusing system changes also....in many cases, this is a good thing - your body is doing what is best for you, you just don't know it.


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## zDom (Oct 13, 2008)

YMMV, but what worked for me is plenty of rough sparring.

By spending enough time in that weird-feeling place (or howabout that REALLY weird feeling when you get hit HARD in the head) while using techniques, you get a level of comfort and confidence in using those techniques.

Not recommending it, of course, as it is a fine line to tread in sparring hard enough to see these benefits while avoiding injury or messing up your brain.

But for me it was good.


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## morph4me (Oct 13, 2008)

MBuzzy said:


> It can't be stopped, it can only be dealt with, as newy said. It is a physiological response to adrenaline or loss of blood flow/oxygen flow to the brain. It is your body's way of reallocating resources as needed. In extreme stress situations, the same thing happens to ensure that focus is in the right place. If you notice, your focusing system changes also....in many cases, this is a good thing - your body is doing what is best for you, you just don't know it.


 
I agree totally with this.  An adreneline dump is a physiological response. It causes things like tunnel vision, audtiory exclusion, evacuation etc., depending on your level of fear.  It doesn't matter how brave you are, since bravery is about how you deal with fear, not the absence of fear.  It also does good things for you, makes you faster and stronger, thickens your blood so you won't bleed out as quickly if you're injured. The more you understand it and know what you can expect, the easier it is to deal with.


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## theletch1 (Oct 13, 2008)

morph4me said:


> I agree totally with this.  An adreneline dump is a physiological response. It causes things like tunnel vision, audtiory exclusion, evacuation etc., depending on your level of fear.  It doesn't matter how brave you are, since bravery is about how you deal with fear, not the absence of fear.  It also does good things for you, makes you faster and stronger, thickens your blood so you won't bleed out as quickly if you're injured. The more you understand it and know what you can expect, the easier it is to deal with.


Get out of my head, Tom! 

There used to be a kids cartoon on the said something along the lines of "Knowledge is power."  and it's very true with the adrenal dump.  The more you understand what's going on the more apt you are to view it in an almost clinical fashion when it happens.  I know these aren't the answers you were looking for but they are the ones that will help you find the path that will eventually allow you to come to grips with what's going on.


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## Leomhann (Oct 13, 2008)

That response varies from person to person. Personally I don't get tunnel vision, and the closest to a weird feeling I get is extremely light on my feet and a cold rush. You can train your mind to deal with this certain situation. Though as with anything else, its a technique and depending on which you choose and your particular mind set, it can be difficult or simple.


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## MBuzzy (Oct 13, 2008)

Leomhann said:


> That response varies from person to person. Personally I don't get tunnel vision, and the closest to a weird feeling I get is extremely light on my feet and a cold rush. You can train your mind to deal with this certain situation. Though as with anything else, its a technique and depending on which you choose and your particular mind set, it can be difficult or simple.



Which goes to show that physiological responses differ for every person.  Although, tunnel vision is something that tends to be pretty standard in some situations, especially in the lack of oxygen/blood situation.  I'd say that you're the exception!


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## terryl965 (Oct 13, 2008)

Yew said:


> How is it overcome?Of course you can feel brave and more confident through training but when the adrenaline starts rushing, your body feels weird and your vision turns blurry as well.And the tunnel vision and wierd feeling cannot be turned off or switched off just by being brave.So how do the rest of you 'get rid' of that feeling so that you can concentrate on what to do with the opponent?


 
To be honest I just re-act to every stituation with whatever my opponet or attacker is doing. I do not believe one can turn it off just like that but learn to deal with it on a daily bases.


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## Deaf Smith (Oct 13, 2008)

Hate works pretty well for me. Hate and an unreasonable feeling of superiority. No wait... last time I tried that I dissed three 250lb weighlifters and they made a basketball out of me.

Ok, I really think the Samurai and the right idea with deciding they were dead already. In other words free yourself from fear.

Deaf


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## jks9199 (Oct 13, 2008)

Leomhann said:


> That response varies from person to person. Personally I don't get tunnel vision, and the closest to a weird feeling I get is extremely light on my feet and a cold rush. You can train your mind to deal with this certain situation. Though as with anything else, its a technique and depending on which you choose and your particular mind set, it can be difficult or simple.


Then you've probably never yet really faced a true life-or-death adrenalized situation, because the tunnel vision is part of the physiological effects of the stress hormones.

Let me explain that a bit...

Several people have done a lot of research into the physiological effects of combat or fighting stress.  Dave Grossman has collected and done a lot with this; his website is at www.killology.com (though he's joining with some others for a new site www.warriorsciencegroup.com).  Basically, as the body responds to situations, hormones do various things (shut down capillaries, pool blood into the vital organs, and more) to prepare the body to survive.  Properly formatted training can simulate and innoculate you against some of these responses -- but you almost have to be in situations that are a very near approximation of the real event to achieve all of it.  (Note that I'm summarizing material that could -- and does -- fill several books here.)  We each respond to different situations differently.  For some people, their first sparring match gets pretty close, but over time, they get accustomed to it and sparring becomes a comfortable experience.  And the innoculation effect is somewhat specific to the stressor; comfort in a fist fight situation doesn't automatically equal comfort in a gun fight or a car crash.

There are training exercises that can be done - with reasonable safety - to prepare and innoculate you.  See, for example, the book *Training at the Speed of Life* by Kenneth Murray, or some of the exercises described by Rory Miller in *Meditations on Violence*.  

And, remember, that bravery is not the same as not feeling fear.  Bravery is acting IN SPITE of feeling fear.  Chesty Puller, Audie Murphy, and any others you care to name all felt fear.  They simply refused to allow their fear to control their actions.


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## Em MacIntosh (Oct 14, 2008)

I learned to control my shaky knees by tapping my foot.  Unfortunately it tends to be a sign of aggression.  As far as dealing with the adrenaline dump, it's better to be angry than catatonic, from a self defense point of view.  Many of us are better at having some degree of control over our adrenaline than those with no training.  Getting hit hard in sparring used to cause a brief bit of a panic, but that's sparring.  It's still getting a taste of the unexpected and that helps keep you on your toes.


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## SKB (Oct 15, 2008)

I know this will sound simple but most things in life are simple when you break them down.

Breath and know it is normal. Tell your body to breath and get oxygen in so your body has more to work with. Part of the response is your body diverting resources to what it thinks you really need in the situation. I agree with reading Lt. Col. Grossmens books! They have helped me put into words what I already knew was happening!!!! 

Breathing calms you down which means you can focus and in the middle of a "bad day" you want to stay calmer then the next guy! Also when you train try to take yourself to the point where the adrenaline starts to flow, as was pointed out in another reply. If you can experience the feeling in training it will not over take you in a real situation. But remember the adrenaline and/or feeling of bungee jumping is not the same as the feeling when the bad guy across from you wants to smash your face in. Close but not the same!

Have your training partner yell, scream, maybe add two people attacking you or even have your partner pull a training knife on you when you expect them to throw a punch. Lots of people have really good training methods for bringing you to the point where the adrenaline dumps. I think the start to getting there is you have to mentally train as if you are in a real situation! 

Hope this helps even a little.


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## 7starmarc (Oct 15, 2008)

Yew said:


> How is it overcome?Of course you can feel brave and more confident through training but when the adrenaline starts rushing, your body feels weird and your vision turns blurry as well.And the tunnel vision and wierd feeling cannot be turned off or switched off just by being brave.So how do the rest of you 'get rid' of that feeling so that you can concentrate on what to do with the opponent?



There have been many good answers regarding the possibility to accommodate to high stress situations to help lessen the adrenaline effect. Of course, when you lessen the negatives (e.g. tunnel vision), you are probably also lessening the positives (e.g. increased blood flow, etc.).

In addition to learning to accommodate to potential stressors (calm down, refocus, etc.), you should also realize that that reaction is the exact reason why people who are expected to act while stressed are overtrained for their reactions. In MA, you drill techniques, counters, etc. until you respond without having to concentrate the particulars. The same can be said for any other combat or high stress skill. We overtrain so that we can still perform when the adrenaline in running.


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## chinto (Oct 16, 2008)

Its called 'fight or flight' and its a basic response to danger. there will be tunneling and such to a point no matter what you do. I think that to some extent it will diminish with exposure, but not go away completely.  there are instances of cops trained to use sights on pistols no matter what the range that have fired even 15 round magazines from their weapons and hit nothing at 5 ft! that is because they tunneled and could not see the sights. ( that is why Col. Rex Applegate and others taught 'instinct shooting for such short ranges)  so even experienced people have it happen.


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## teekin (Oct 16, 2008)

jks9199 said:


> Then you've probably never yet really faced a true life-or-death adrenalized situation, because the tunnel vision is part of the physiological effects of the stress hormones.
> 
> Let me explain that a bit...
> 
> ...


 
So blacking out and coding out several times would qualify as "very near approximations" right? Perhaps the closer you come to loosing your life the more it takes to create that panic that will cause tunnel vision or parylasis. There is a reason that the older warriors who lived through a tour or a few live fire fights had a much better chance of coming back than a raw recruit. They stay chilly under fire, the blood can flow and they still stay chilly, people die and they stay chilly. Once they and theirs are safe, then they blow. I don't know if anyone can learn to stay that chilly without facing the dragon of their own mortality.
lori


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## jks9199 (Oct 16, 2008)

Grendel308 said:


> So blacking out and coding out several times would qualify as "very near approximations" right? Perhaps the closer you come to loosing your life the more it takes to create that panic that will cause tunnel vision or parylasis. There is a reason that the older warriors who lived through a tour or a few live fire fights had a much better chance of coming back than a raw recruit. They stay chilly under fire, the blood can flow and they still stay chilly, people die and they stay chilly. Once they and theirs are safe, then they blow. I don't know if anyone can learn to stay that chilly without facing the dragon of their own mortality.
> lori


It's a very near approximation of dying.  (In fact, it sounds like it was dying -- but modern medicine saved you.)  But that doesn't necessarily mean it prepared you for the particular stress of a fight for your life.

I'm going to steal from Cooper's Color Code because it's well known, and it works.  Postulate 5 levels of stress response; White, Yellow, Orange, Red and Black.  Each is a different level of stress and awareness.  Code White is completely relaxed, no stress.  Heartbeat is at normal rest.  Yellow is a mild level of stress, and some awareness of potential dangers.  Heartbeat is elevated, but very mildly.  More caterpillars in the stomach than butterflies.  Code Orange is moderate stress, anticipating imminent danger.  The butterflies in the stomach are fluttering away, and your heartbeat is notably elevated.  You've got "the shakes" as your body is readying itself for a fight.  In Code Red, the fight's on.  You're there...  Butterflies have died, because the adrenaline that causes them is being used the way it's supposed to be.  Heartrate is up there...  but you're still managing.  If you've trained well and appropriate, probably in the 120s to140s.  At Code Black... it's all FUBAR.  You're panicking.  Your heartrate is off the chart (170 to 200+).  You ain't thinking, you ain't planning... you're gone.  As Col. Grossman says, "the puppy's in control."  See http://www.killology.com/art_psych_combat.htm for a more detailed breakdown of these effects, though I don't believe Grossman ties them to the color codes.

The goal of training is to repeatedly, UNDER CONTROL, expose yourself to situations that allow you to develop the confidence and mental pathways to move to Code Orange/Code Red appropriately, and remain there for the duration of a fight -- and not move into Code Black.  Good simulation training mimics many of the factors of a real situation, but is set up for student success.  This builds a background of confidence, and provides a well of experiences to draw on when the real deal goes down.  So, for example, when we practice entries for search warrants, we create a variety of challenges -- but always have a way to win through.  We try to expose ourselves ahead of time to different layouts of rooms, different sounds and scenes, so that when we do a real entry, our subconscious can grope around, and pull out one that's not too far off, and we "know" how to handle it.


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## thardey (Oct 17, 2008)

Most of the adrenalin dump situations I've been in have been over in under 2 seconds, so I sort of got a quick "shot" that passed too quickly to respond to, only the shakes afterward. Many times the adrenalin actually hit after the situation was over, which was always a weird feeling. I don't usually remember much about those instances, other that a specific "snapshot" of memory at the moment I realized the danger. (Most of these were on a motorcycle)

There was once that I was on the verge of panicking, while scuba diving at night (I was a beginner, and was in no real danger, but I didn't have the experience to recognize that.) I remember hearing by heart rate increasing, but I was able to control my breathing, and keep from panicking (code black), but I don't remember any sort of tunnel vision. (Of course, it was night, in 5 foot visibility, with only my flashlight, so even if I had tunnel vision, I couldn't have told the difference!)

One other time I decided to go much faster on my bike that was "prudent" I could tell right when I transitioned from "Code Orange" to "Code Red" but in that situation, instead of going to "tunnel vision" I did the opposite. I actually saw _everything_ at once, which is hard to describe. Also, my perception of time slowed way down, and everything became highly focused, including my hearing. I held that for about 40 seconds, just experiencing this odd new feeling. After I slowed down I had a severe case of the shakes, and had to pull over until it subsided.

However, in all of those situations, there was never a personal element involved, that is, there was no enemy, or personal wish to cause me harm, just me against the elements. So I think that if I hit "Code Red" against a personal attack, it would likely be different, from some of the research I've read. I could see where the tunnel vision would be focused on the perceived threat, where in my experiences, there was no single threat, just a threatening situation.


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## jks9199 (Oct 17, 2008)

A key factor is the time to anticipate or prepare.  If you're driving down the road, and a deer jumps in front you, it's over before you get a chance for the fight or flight stuff to happen... until after.  The effects are also kind of cumalitive; that's why PTSD, "shell shock" or "combat stress syndrome" becomes a factor.  Read Grossman's work; he's done a great job talking about it.

Again, one of the goals of training is to be able to move to a point under stress where your survival is optimized -- without moving beyond that point into true, unreasoning panic.


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