# Ex-cop arrested for fatal shooting over texting during the previews



## Steve (Jan 14, 2014)

This is unbelievable:

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/201...man-for-texting-at-florida-movie-sheriff?lite

I don't really know what to say.


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## ballen0351 (Jan 14, 2014)

Steve said:


> This is unbelievable:
> 
> http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/201...man-for-texting-at-florida-movie-sheriff?lite
> 
> I don't really know what to say.



Not much too say


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## Steve (Jan 14, 2014)

Dude was texting during the previews.  I mean, I get that it's annoying to have people talking and texting during a movie.  It would be REALLY annoying.  But, the movie hadn't even started yet.


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## ballen0351 (Jan 14, 2014)

Steve said:


> Dude was texting during the previews.  I mean, I get that it's annoying to have people talking and texting during a movie.  It would be REALLY annoying.  But, the movie hadn't even started yet.



Reading more reports I think it was more about the texter kept turning around and making smart *** comments to the old man.  Even after the man walked out and came back they guy turned and made more comments to the old man.


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## Steve (Jan 14, 2014)

ballen0351 said:


> Reading more reports I think it was more about the texter kept turning around and making smart *** comments to the old man.  Even after the man walked out and came back they guy turned and made more comments to the old man.


It sounds like they were jawing back and forth.  Let's presume the worst, that the guy who was killed was being a complete dirtbag.  Is there any context where that's a legitimate reason to shoot him?


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## Instructor (Jan 14, 2014)

Rude to the wrong guy on the wrong day.


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## Tgace (Jan 14, 2014)

Steve said:


> It sounds like they were jawing back and forth.  Let's presume the worst, that the guy who was killed was being a complete dirtbag.  Is there any context where that's a legitimate reason to shoot him?



I don't think that was his point. 

Looks like murder 2 here to me.


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## pgsmith (Jan 14, 2014)

I agree. It wasn't the texting that prompted the shooting, it was the 43 year old man physically confronting the 71 year old man. 

  While it is both tragic and stupid, the moral of the story is "being a jerk can get you shot."


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## ballen0351 (Jan 14, 2014)

Steve said:


> It sounds like they were jawing back and forth.  Let's presume the worst, that the guy who was killed was being a complete dirtbag.  Is there any context where that's a legitimate reason to shoot him?



I'm not excusing the shooting just saying sounds more to it then guys sends text old man pulls guy and shoots him


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## Steve (Jan 14, 2014)

Tgace said:


> I don't think that was his point.
> 
> Looks like murder 2 here to me.


Then please explain it to me.


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## Drasken (Jan 14, 2014)

Not much to debate here really. Even if the guy had physically attacked this old man, self defense isn't usable since it was a gun free zone and he had a gun, which he then used.
Old man is in deep trouble, and should have known better considering his background.

It is a horrible event. I feel bad for the family of the victim. I feel bad for the family of this old man. It never should have happened, and if the older man did indeed report the disturbance of the texting, the theater staff should have asked him to leave or to move in order to diffuse any potential situations.

It is what it is. Not much more to say...


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## Tgace (Jan 14, 2014)

Drasken said:


> Not much to debate here really. Even if the guy had physically attacked this old man, self defense isn't usable since it was a gun free zone and he had a gun, which he then used.




Not really...most of these "gun free zone" places are store policy vs "law". They don't override legitimate self-defense incidents.


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## ballen0351 (Jan 14, 2014)

Drasken said:


> Not much to debate here really. Even if the guy had physically attacked this old man, self defense isn't usable since it was a gun free zone and he had a gun, which he then used.
> Old man is in deep trouble, and should have known better considering his background.
> 
> It is a horrible event. I feel bad for the family of the victim. I feel bad for the family of this old man. It never should have happened, and if the older man did indeed report the disturbance of the texting, the theater staff should have asked him to leave or to move in order to diffuse any potential situations.
> ...


Gun free zones are not legally binding and police and retired police are exempt anyway.    But I do see a big suit filed against theater if in fact it was reported to them and nothing was done.


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## Drasken (Jan 14, 2014)

ballen0351 said:


> Gun free zones are not legally binding and police and retired police are exempt anyway.    But I do see a big suit filed against theater if in fact it was reported to them and nothing was done.



Good to know. I disagree with gun free zones anyway, if you have a permit for concealed carry then you should be able to carry period.
Even still it seems like use of deadly force without justification at the moment, so that's besides the point.


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## ballen0351 (Jan 14, 2014)

Drasken said:


> Good to know. I disagree with gun free zones anyway, if you have a permit for concealed carry then you should be able to carry period.



You can the most they can do in a gun free zone is tell you to leave.   The only legal "gun free zones" are some govt buildings.  But private places like the movies or chain restaurants etc can't do anything other then refuse service kinda like no shirt no shoes no service 


> Even still it seems like use of deadly force without justification at the moment, so that's besides the point.



Yeah as its written in the story I could see a 2nd def murder or manslaughter charge


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## Drasken (Jan 14, 2014)

ballen0351 said:


> You can the most they can do in a gun free zone is tell you to leave.   The only legal "gun free zones" are some govt buildings.  But private places like the movies or chain restaurants etc can't do anything other then refuse service kinda like no shirt no shoes no service
> 
> 
> Yeah as its written in the story I could see a 2nd def murder or manslaughter charge


Here all gun free zones list it as a crime to carry a weapon on the premises. But I think we have something in state law allowing such treatment. Which is weird because my state is the biggest group of pro gun people out there. I'll look into it, but seeing as I haven't applied for a license to carry yet there has been little point to me researching. But now I'm curious, so I'll have to find out.


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## ballen0351 (Jan 14, 2014)

Drasken said:


> Here all gun free zones list it as a crime to carry a weapon on the premises. But I think we have something in state law allowing such treatment. Which is weird because my state is the biggest group of pro gun people out there. I'll look into it, but seeing as I haven't applied for a license to carry yet there has been little point to me researching. But now I'm curious, so I'll have to find out.



Yeah each state may be different but I don't see how Buffalo Wild Wings refusing to allow customers to posses firearms is an arrestable offense.  Unless the state made some law about it.  We have no laws like that here at most they call the police we tell you to leave but then again nobody carries guns here since the communist state of MD its almost impossible to get a CC permit.


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## Carol (Jan 14, 2014)

ballen0351 said:


> Yeah each state may be different but I don't see how Buffalo Wild Wings refusing to allow customers to posses firearms is an arrestable offense.  Unless the state made some law about it.  We have no laws like that here at most they call the police we tell you to leave but then again nobody carries guns here since the communist state of MD its almost impossible to get a CC permit.



Its not as far as I know, as its a matter of private property rights.  The restaurant can ask a customer to leave, and if the customer doesn't, then the customer could be arrested for trespassing.  But not for an otherwise legal carry of a firearm.

I heard Buffalo Wild Wings was strict, but the one up here permits open carry.  :idunno:


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## ballen0351 (Jan 14, 2014)

Carol said:


> Its not as far as I know, as its a matter of private property rights.  The restaurant can ask a customer to leave, and if the customer doesn't, then the customer could be arrested for trespassing.  But not for an otherwise legal carry of a firearm.
> 
> I heard Buffalo Wild Wings was strict, but the one up here permits open carry.  :idunno:


I don't know I've heard of one that refused to serve detectives who were on duty just trying to get some lunch and were armed and had badges.  So I guess it depends on location


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## Drasken (Jan 14, 2014)

So apparently in Texas, it is a crime to carry a concealed weapon on any premises that sells alcohol. And if a store owner marks a location as gun free then it is considered a gun free zone and someone who carries anyway is subject to possible charges. Apparently there are attempts to fight this, and relax the concealed carry laws a little bit... But for a state who loves their guns so much, Texas seems rather strict. On top of that, the laws are confusing and thus seem to be a case by case basis when on the topic of prosecution. Which honestly isn't a good thing :/


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## Carol (Jan 14, 2014)

One thing I'm not sure about is how the gun free zones affect Castle.  Ours was recently revised to include home, curtilage, and anywhere one has a legal right to be.  

If one is CC in a gun-free establishment, or if one's carry was the reason why one was asked to leave a gun-free establishment, does that mean Castle would not apply?   Probably a better question for a local defense attorney but I'm kinda curious.


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## Tgace (Jan 14, 2014)

Simply being in a "gun free zone" should not mean you have to just let someone kill you if you happen to possess an otherwise legal firearm...In terms of Castle Doctrine or Duty to Retreat I would certainly avoid using a gun in a GFZ if at all possible.


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## jks9199 (Jan 14, 2014)

ballen0351 said:


> Yeah each state may be different but I don't see how Buffalo Wild Wings refusing to allow customers to posses firearms is an arrestable offense.  Unless the state made some law about it.  We have no laws like that here at most they call the police we tell you to leave but then again nobody carries guns here since the communist state of MD its almost impossible to get a CC permit.


The only way I see it working is to make it a trespass.  You're given permission to enter private property (violate the close) to conduct business there -- but you have to abide by the rules.  However, without some pretty specific codes, I think I'd want them to have been told to leave and refuse to do so rather than rely on a "no guns" sign.


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## ballen0351 (Jan 14, 2014)

jks9199 said:


> The only way I see it working is to make it a trespass.  You're given permission to enter private property (violate the close) to conduct business there -- but you have to abide by the rules.  However, without some pretty specific codes, I think I'd want them to have been told to leave and refuse to do so rather than rely on a "no guns" sign.


Right that's what I'm saying.  The most the store could do is ask you to leave.  If you refuse then your trespassing.  They call the police and we tell them OK you need to leave.  Private property can make the rulesfor service as they see fit.  You either follow them or don't shop there


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