# Melbourne  Wing chun Mini history



## BlueBoy11 (Nov 12, 2016)

Hi guys  this is  a mini history of wing chun, in melbourne Australia. In  1974 william cheeung opened his first school in Russell street  chinatown  then shortly after that 1975  Mr Barry Pang opened his school at goju headquters in  lt bourke street then his own club in bourke st in 1976 at that time,  william challenged Barry pang to a bei mo which pang laughed it off mr pangs school became very well known after that.  Around 1981  a student of Barry pangs the only one who was being paid ,  to teach for him,  left for hong kong to train under  wong shun leung when he returened he opened his own school and bad mouthed his former teacher this got recived very badly and he was challeneged to a fair fight and lost badly . This happenened in box hill around 1982.This person only went to hong kong dueing school holidays and never lived there in fact , untill the late 90s you could only get three months visa and had to come back to oz to get renewed you could get extenidions but they were for bussness people and the like . ps the only person whom has completed , his training under wsl was Mr Barry Lee  and thats a fact hope people, find this helpful. . ps all other schools save one recently opened came from williams or barrys. there have been others but they keep to themselfs


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## Gerry Seymour (Nov 12, 2016)

BlueBoy11 said:


> Hi guys  this is  a mini history of wing chun, in melbourne Australia. In  1974 william cheeung opened his first school in Russell street  chinatown  then shortly after that 1975  Mr Barry Pang opened his school at goju headquters in  lt bourke street then his own club in bourke st in 1976 at that time,  william challenged Barry pang to a bei mo which pang laughed it off mr pangs school became very well known after that.  Around 1981  a student of Barry pangs the only one who was being paid ,  to teach for him,  left for hong kong to train under  wong shun leung when he returened he opened his own school and bad mouthed his former teacher this got recived very badly and he was challeneged to a fair fight and lost badly . This happenened in box hill around 1982.This person only went to hong kong dueing school holidays and never lived there in fact , untill the late 90s you could only get three months visa and had to come back to oz to get renewed you could get extenidions but they were for bussness people and the like . ps the only person whom has completed , his training under wsl was Mr Barry Lee  and thats a fact hope people, find this helpful. . ps all other schools save one recently opened came from williams or barrys. there have been others but they keep to themselfs


This is almost informative, but confusing to read. I'd love to have this fleshed out a bit (with proper punctuation and capitalization to make it easier to understand). You name several names, but dance around the one that seems to be the main point of your post. I presume this to be the same person mentioned in other thread, but would appreciate clarity in the reference.


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## BlueBoy11 (Nov 12, 2016)

Hi gerry my laptop is playing up a bit please forgive ny errorrs i will pm  you more later , and i am trying to be careful in what i say


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## Transk53 (Nov 12, 2016)

gpseymour said:


> This is almost informative, but confusing to read. I'd love to have this fleshed out a bit (with proper punctuation and capitalization to make it easier to understand). You name several names, but dance around the one that seems to be the main point of your post. I presume this to be the same person mentioned in other thread, but would appreciate clarity in the reference.



Perhaps he is one of those who kept themselves to themselves, but reading other Wing Chun threads, wants to make a point on ability maybe?


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## SOD-WC (Nov 12, 2016)

A little piece of WC history is always interesting. Not being critical but i had to read ur post a few times before getting the right picture. Thanks for sharing Blueboy.


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## Transk53 (Nov 12, 2016)

SOD-WC said:


> A little piece of WC history is always interesting. Not being critical but i had to read ur post a few times before getting the right picture. Thanks for sharing Blueboy.



Would you perhaps be able to elaborate, in keeping with the respect of the OP of course.


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## SOD-WC (Nov 12, 2016)

Of course, ill explain in more detail. The first half of the history i got confused because of all the names and linking them to events. They where writtent in a continuous sentence which cause me to confuse myself.

The second part of the post was easy to read. Hope that help.


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## Transk53 (Nov 12, 2016)

SOD-WC said:


> Of course, ill explain in more detail. The first half of the history i got confused because of all the names and linking them to events. They where writtent in a continuous sentence which cause me to confuse myself.
> 
> The second part of the post was easy to read. Hope that help.



Yeah no problem


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## Gerry Seymour (Nov 12, 2016)

Transk53 said:


> Perhaps he is one of those who kept themselves to themselves, but reading other Wing Chun threads, wants to make a point on ability maybe?


He sounds like he may have some valid input - I'd just like to be able to read them.


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## BlueBoy11 (Nov 12, 2016)

gpseymour said:


> He sounds like he may have some valid input - I'd just like to be able to read them.


hi guys, sorry about mising gramma laptop hassales, Now despite what some aussies claim sifu Barry lee was the only person, authorized to teach for w sl  in Australia . Others were told to comlpete their training under and did not no aussie except one had any more than 18 months training under wsl thats fact. Mr barry pang was the first person who train with wong he says 9 months but this cant be because of visa  issues , of that time more to come later


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## BlueBoy11 (Nov 12, 2016)

BlueBoy11 said:


> hi guys, sorry about mising gramma laptop hassales, Now despite what some aussies claim sifu Barry lee was the only person, authorized to teach for w sl  in Australia . Others were told to comlpete their training under mr lee  and did not no aussie except one had any more than 18 months training under wsl thats fact. Mr barry pang was the first person who train with wong he says 9 months but this cant be because of visa  issues , of that time more to come later


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Nov 13, 2016)

As someone ignorant in wing chun, but curious, what is a bei mo?

Also, from what I gather, Barry Pang is your sifu, but you do not think he is qualified to teach Wing Chun? I'm sure that is incorrect somewhere, but could you clarify the discrepance in what I read?


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## LFJ (Nov 13, 2016)

kempodisciple said:


> As someone ignorant in wing chun, but curious, what is a bei mo?



Competition or challenge match. 比武


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## guy b (Nov 13, 2016)

BlueBoy11 said:


> hi guys, sorry about mising gramma laptop hassales, Now despite what some aussies claim sifu Barry lee was the only person, authorized to teach for w sl  in Australia . Others were told to comlpete their training under and did not no aussie except one had any more than 18 months training under wsl thats fact. Mr barry pang was the first person who train with wong he says 9 months but this cant be because of visa  issues , of that time more to come later



Do you have any details on Barry Lee's VT beyond what little is available on the internet? Any pictures, articles, clips and so on? He is one I of WSL's students that I really don't know anything about.


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## Vajramusti (Nov 13, 2016)

guy b said:


> Do you have any details on Barry Lee's VT beyond what little is available on the internet? Any pictures, articles, clips and so on? He is one I of WSL's students that I really don't know anything about.


---------------------------------------
WSL used to call him  "the machine" because of his persistence. He is an ex-brother in law of WSL


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## JowGaWolf (Nov 13, 2016)

The story has a similar feel to what happened in my style where a student isn't made a Sifu but teaches as one.  

I wonder if much of the agrees in the wing Chun community comes from this. In Jow Ga the Sifu to be is given special training that other students don't get.  I can only assume this is common in Chinese martial arts.

This may also be one of the reasons why some people claim that certain lineages are missing components that another lineage has.


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## guy b (Nov 13, 2016)

JowGaWolf said:


> what happened in my style where a student isn't made a Sifu but teaches as one.
> 
> I wonder if much of the agrees in the wing Chun community comes from this



Don't think so, no. Not sure what "made a sifu" would mean in the context of VT. People can complete the system or not. Many people that are/were teaching it didn't have a complete understanding of the system, but there isn't anything secret that is reserved for "sifus-to-be", and there are no ranks.


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## BlueBoy11 (Nov 13, 2016)

kempodisciple said:


> As someone ignorant in wing chun, but curious, what is a bei mo?
> 
> Also, from what I gather, Barry Pang is your sifu, but you do not think he is qualified to teach Wing Chun? I'm sure that is incorrect somewhere, but could you clarify the discrepance in what I read?[/QUOHi  Kempo i was training with  Barry Pang from 1976 to 87  ,  i left there after finding out many thimgs about his so called training , like other people who talk big in australia and did not  train with wong  much directly at all , this is what i am trying to get arcross . in hong kong you would be taught by the senors , with a bit of correction by the sifu whomever , that maybe


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## guy b (Nov 13, 2016)

BlueBoy11 said:


> Hi Kempo i was training with Barry Pang from 1976 to 87 , i left there after finding out many thimgs about his so called training , like other people who talk big in australia and did not train with wong much directly at all , this is what i am trying to get arcross . in hong kong you would be taught by the senors , with a bit of correction by the sifu whomever , that maybe



Any info about Barry Lee?


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## Transk53 (Nov 13, 2016)

Barry Lee Ving Tsun Martial Arts Academy  -  Home Page

Maybe of some help?


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## JowGaWolf (Nov 13, 2016)

JowGaWolf said:


> The story has a similar feel to what happened in my style where a student isn't made a Sifu but teaches as one.
> 
> I wonder if much of the agrees in the wing Chun community comes from this. In Jow Ga the Sifu to be is given special training that other students don't get.  I can only assume this is common in Chinese martial arts.
> 
> This may also be one of the reasons why some people claim that certain lineages are missing components that another lineage has.


I made a typo.  Should be "I wonder if much of the disagreements in the Wing Chun community comes from this"


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## JowGaWolf (Nov 13, 2016)

guy b said:


> Don't think so, no. Not sure what "made a sifu" would mean in the context of VT. People can complete the system or not. Many people that are/were teaching it didn't have a complete understanding of the system, but there isn't anything secret that is reserved for "sifus-to-be", and there are no ranks.


How are Wing Chun Sifu's created?  Are they approved by the current Sifu or is it something they can do on their own after completing the system or can someone become a recognized Sifu even if they didn't complete the system.  Are their organizations that help list "approved sifu's"  Does one get a certificate showing that they are now a Sifu?


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## drop bear (Nov 13, 2016)

JowGaWolf said:


> How are Wing Chun Sifu's created?  Are they approved by the current Sifu or is it something they can do on their own after completing the system or can someone become a recognized Sifu even if they didn't complete the system.  Are their organizations that help list "approved sifu's"  Does one get a certificate showing that they are now a Sifu?



When i did it for a month or so i think one of them was teaching and then decided to move out under his own banner.  He sort of was the guy under williem cheung.  That caused sad faces all round. 

The school itself had a really weird culture.


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## guy b (Nov 14, 2016)

JowGaWolf said:


> How are Wing Chun Sifu's created? Are they approved by the current Sifu or is it something they can do on their own after completing the system or can someone become a recognized Sifu even if they didn't complete the system. Are their organizations that help list "approved sifu's" Does one get a certificate showing that they are now a Sifu?



Like most things in life, in VT you can have as a teacher anyone who is willing to teach you and who you think beneficial to learn from. It isn't karate, there aren't coloured belts and silly titles, it is just a way of fighting


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## drop bear (Nov 14, 2016)

guy b said:


> Like most things in life, in VT you can have as a teacher anyone who is willing to teach you and who you think beneficial to learn from. It isn't karate, there aren't coloured belts and silly titles, it is just a way of fighting



Wing chun does though.  Sashes and titles.


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## guy b (Nov 14, 2016)

drop bear said:


> Wing chun does though.  Sashes and titles.



Never heard of it


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## drop bear (Nov 14, 2016)

guy b said:


> Never heard of it



Never heard of wing chun?


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## guy b (Nov 14, 2016)

drop bear said:


> Never heard of wing chun?



Not heard of a system called wing chun with sashes and titles.


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## drop bear (Nov 14, 2016)

guy b said:


> Not heard of a system called wing chun with sashes and titles.



Wing Chun Level 2 Grandmaster William Cheung's Global Traditional Wing Chun Kung Fu Association


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## guy b (Nov 14, 2016)

drop bear said:


> Wing Chun Level 2 Grandmaster William Cheung's Global Traditional Wing Chun Kung Fu Association



Looks unfamiliar


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## Danny T (Nov 14, 2016)

guy b said:


> Not heard of a system called wing chun with sashes and titles.


The System Wing Chun doesn't have sashes and titles. However, there are numerous organizations and instructors who now use sashes as a means to denote who has been instructed the different aspects of their curriculum and show skills sets for that material. Doesn't mean anything but to those organizations or instructors.


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## JowGaWolf (Nov 14, 2016)

Danny T said:


> The System Wing Chun doesn't have sashes and titles. However, there are numerous organizations and instructors who now use sashes as a means to denote who has been instructed the different aspects of their curriculum and show skills sets for that material. Doesn't mean anything but to those organizations or instructors.


It's a marketing thing as most people like the color belt system.


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## Transk53 (Nov 14, 2016)

JowGaWolf said:


> It's a marketing thing as most people like the color belt system.



Would that be across all MA?


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## JowGaWolf (Nov 14, 2016)

Transk53 said:


> Would that be across all MA?


Nope.  Just the ones who give into the business success of meeting the needs of of students who like belts.  I'm willing to bet that there are more students out there who care more about the color of their belt than about their ability to actually fight using the skills that they train in.   I don't see this as a bad thing since people take martial arts for many reasons and out of the many, the ability to actually fight is not the most popular reason.

By the way, even business management certifications use a color belt system.  For example, SixSigma.


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## drop bear (Nov 14, 2016)

guy b said:


> Looks unfamiliar



That is the school being discussed in this thread.


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## anerlich (Nov 14, 2016)

BlueBoy11 said:


> Hi guys  this is  a mini history of wing chun, in melbourne Australia. In  1974 william cheeung opened his first school in Russell street  chinatown  then shortly after that 1975  Mr Barry Pang opened his school at goju headquters in  lt bourke street then his own club in bourke st in 1976 at that time,  william challenged Barry pang to a bei mo which pang laughed it off mr pangs school became very well known after that.  Around 1981  a student of Barry pangs the only one who was being paid ,  to teach for him,  left for hong kong to train under  wong shun leung when he returened he opened his own school and bad mouthed his former teacher this got recived very badly and he was challeneged to a fair fight and lost badly . This happenened in box hill around 1982.This person only went to hong kong dueing school holidays and never lived there in fact , untill the late 90s you could only get three months visa and had to come back to oz to get renewed you could get extenidions but they were for bussness people and the like . ps the only person whom has completed , his training under wsl was Mr Barry Lee  and thats a fact hope people, find this helpful. . ps all other schools save one recently opened came from williams or barrys. there have been others but they keep to themselfs



History doesn't get more mini than this. 

I've heard a story similar, though different in key respects and far less confusingly told, to this from someone who witnessed a "challenge match" between Cheung and Pang. 

Not really interested in spewing hearsay about stuff that happened over 30 years ago, though.


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## guy b (Nov 15, 2016)

drop bear said:


> That is the school being discussed in this thread.



I thought he was talking about Barry lee vs the ones that weren't worth worrying about


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## BlueBoy11 (Nov 15, 2016)

ok   to clear up things and i dont know how anybody, got confused cheung challenged  pang is sept 1976 . bill called him out saying he only had 6 months training , which was right  i joined pangs a week later


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## drop bear (Nov 15, 2016)

guy b said:


> I thought he was talking about Barry lee vs the ones that weren't worth worrying about



No I dont really think that was the thrust of the thread.


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## guy b (Nov 15, 2016)

drop bear said:


> No I dont really think that was the thrust of the thread.



I think that's probably because you haven't read it very closely, or noticed what he said on the other thread he posted on. I will explain:



> Hi guys this is a mini history of wing chun, in melbourne Australia. In 1974 william cheeung opened his first school in Russell street chinatown then shortly after that 1975 Mr Barry Pang opened his school at goju headquters in lt bourke street then his own club in bourke st in 1976 at that time, william challenged Barry pang to a bei mo which pang laughed it off mr pangs school became very well known after that.



Scene setting about the history of wing chun in Melbourne



> Around 1981 a student of Barry pangs the only one who was being paid , to teach for him, left for hong kong to train under wong shun leung when he returened he opened his own school and bad mouthed his former teacher this got recived very badly and he was challeneged to a fair fight and lost badly . This happenened in box hill around 1982.This person only went to hong kong dueing school holidays and never lived there in fact , untill the late 90s you could only get three months visa and had to come back to oz to get renewed you could get extenidions but they were for bussness people and the like .



Detail of the experience of the person mentioned by this poster on the other thread. 



> ps the only person whom has completed , his training under wsl was Mr Barry Lee and thats a fact hope people, find this helpful



Reiteration that Barry Lee completed the system under WSL, in contrast to the person mentioned on the other thread and discussed in detail above. 

So it appears to be a post about WSL VT in Australia, and the experience of a particular WSL VT teacher in particular, not a post about other unrelated wing chun which also happens to exist in Australia and which the above mentioned person started out learning before switching to WSL VT.


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## BlueBoy11 (Nov 15, 2016)

Thanks  guy b for your help i appericate  it


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