# Olympic Taekwondo?



## Kwanjang (Aug 8, 2008)

So, it's time for the 2008 Summoer Olympic Games. This means some TKD action. hopefully the crowd won't boo like the last time. (maybe thats why it did not get much tv time- last time.) I have had this conversation with my instructor. Do you think TKD becoming an olympic sport has helped or hurt the art.


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## FearlessFreep (Aug 8, 2008)

Depends on what you mean by 'helped'

Certainly helped the visibility and popularity

Probably hurt the self-defense focus of the Art.


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## terryl965 (Aug 8, 2008)

Properlarity yes, Self Defense wise it has hurt Tae Kwon Do. People just see's the hands down and really do not understand the other aspects.


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## Laurentkd (Aug 8, 2008)

a little off topic, but you can watch Olympic TKD online at http://www.nbcolympics.com/

hopefully if we get into some medal matches they'll televise those- otherwise it looks like online is our only option.


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## ArmorOfGod (Aug 8, 2008)

Laurentkd said:


> a little off topic, but you can watch Olympic TKD online at http://www.nbcolympics.com/
> 
> hopefully if we get into some medal matches they'll televise those- otherwise it looks like online is our only option.


 
Thank you Lauren!
Online is better than nothing.  Last time around, I don't think online was on option.

AoG


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## crushing (Aug 8, 2008)

Thanks Lauren.  Here is a more direct link:  http://www.nbcolympics.com/tv_and_online_listings/zone=ET/day=11/sport=TK/online.html

As long as I am on the site, here is the online listings for Judo (which starts tomorrow):  http://www.nbcolympics.com/tv_and_online_listings/zone=ET/day=1/sport=JU/online.html


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## Laurentkd (Aug 8, 2008)

ArmorOfGod said:


> Thank you Lauren!
> Online is better than nothing. Last time around, I don't think online was on option.
> 
> AoG


 

I think you are right.  Supposedly if you count the online stuff this olympics will have more coverage than all the previous games combined.



crushing said:


> Thanks Lauren. Here is a more direct link: http://www.nbcolympics.com/tv_and_online_listings/zone=ET/day=11/sport=TK/online.html
> 
> As long as I am on the site, here is the online listings for Judo (which starts tomorrow): http://www.nbcolympics.com/tv_and_online_listings/zone=ET/day=1/sport=JU/online.html


 

Thanks for the Judo link, I didnt' realize it started tomorrow!


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## mango.man (Aug 8, 2008)

Here is a nice picture of George Bush meeting the USA TKD team either before or after opening ceremonies.  http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3026/2745110196_8edfef1b5a.jpg?v=0

I had to really focus on the one shaking the president's hand.  At first I would have sworn it was Steven, but on closer exam, I am about 90% sure it is Diana.

I understand that the Chinese will be verifying the sex of some athletes.  http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/30/sports/olympics/30gender.html?ref=science  She should hope that she is not picked out for that test.

Nice picture of Charlotte though who is the only US TKD Team member I really want to see.


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## IcemanSK (Aug 9, 2008)

mango.man said:


> Nice picture of Charlotte though who is the only US TKD Team member I really want to see.


 

*Said very sarcastically* Wait! You mean there's another member of the US team?! And their name ISN'T Lopez?

Ya wouldn't know that watching any coverage of these Olympics. 
Here's to Charlotte:asian:artyon:


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## YoungMan (Aug 10, 2008)

It has helped Taekwondo in the sense that it has helped popularize it and helped with the marketing.

It has hurt Taekwondo in the sense that traditional Taekwondo is a very complete martial art, while the Olympic version is very limited in scope. In other words, you see the same techniques over and over again.

It has hurt Taekwondo by giving students false expectations. Be realistic. How many students are really going to make it to the Olympics? About .0001%. But greedy instructors have to play up the possibility to keep students coming in. Delusional students buy into it because they want to believe they're that good.

I do think if the American team actually did well, which they never do, Olympic Taekwondo would be well received. Aside from the Lopezes, which Americans have won medals? Your typical American viewer isn't going to tune in to see his countrymen lose. The Koreans watch because they know the Koreans will clean up.


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## mango.man (Aug 10, 2008)

YoungMan said:


> I do think if the American team actually did well, which they never do, Olympic Taekwondo would be well received. Aside from the Lopezes, which Americans have won medals? Your typical American viewer isn't going to tune in to see his countrymen lose. The Koreans watch because they know the Koreans will clean up.


 
OK, let's see.  TKD was introduced to the Olympics in 1988 as an exhibition sport.  All 8 weight divisions were used and each country could send 1 male and 1 female athelte per division.

I am not sure if the USA sent all 16 that they could or not, but 11 did medal

1988 Jimmy Kim - Gold
1988 Lynnette Love - Gold
1988 Dana Hee - Gold
1988 Arlene Limas - Gold
1988 Debra Holloway - Silver
1988 Juan Moreno - Silver
1988 Mayumi Pejo - Bronze
1988 Han-Won Lee - Bronze
1988 Greg Baker - Bronze
1988 Jay Warwick - Bronze
1988 Sharon Jewell - Bronze

In 1992 TKD remained an exhibition sport.  Again all 8 weight divisions were used but coutries were limited to 3 male and 3 female athelete per country.

The USA sent their maximum of 6 and all 6 picked up medals

1992 Herbert Perez - Gold
1992 Juan Moreno - Silver
1992 Diane Murray - Silver
1992 Jennifer Laney - Bronze
1992 Terry Poindexter - Bronze
1992 Lynnette Love - Bronze

In 1996 TKD was excluded from the Olympic games.

In 2000 TKD became an offical recognized sport in the Olympic games.  The 8 weight divisions were combined into 4 and countries were limited to a max of 2 male and 2 female athletes per country. 

The USA sent their max of 4 and only 1 medaled.

2000 Steven Lopez - Gold

In 2004 the rules were the same as 2000.

The USA sent 2 athletes and both medaled.

2004 Steven Lopez - Gold
2004 Nia Abdallah - Silver

With the exception of 2000, the USA has not done all that bad on the TKD Olympic stage.


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## tshadowchaser (Aug 10, 2008)

the question I have is did the USA send our best team or do you think the team was predetermined by the coach.
Seems funny  to me that all where from the same family.
As for watching the competition I thank those that gave links so I can watch what our crap tv coverage misses
.


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## mango.man (Aug 10, 2008)

Of course the USA did not send their best team.  This has been discussed.

Steven Lopez, absolutly the best.

You can make arguments as to why the other 3 do not belong on the team.

Diana Lopez:  Video from the original team trials back in August 07 seemed to show that Nia Abdallah should have won.  Then in the 2nd round of team trials in April of this year, again video seems to show that Nia won again.

Mark Lopez:  Although I have not seen any video, I have heard from sources that I consider reliable that he to did not really win his fight against David Bartlett at team trials last August and his bid should have been ended there.

Charlotte Craig:  Well, Mandy Meloon (the most decorated female athlete in USA TKD history) had a complete mental breakdown and was removed from the team and Charlotte just kinda slid right into that spot.  She has performed very well though since taking the spot, but had Mandy not become a raging lunatic, she would be the one in Beijing today.

The deal with the Lopez's though was completly transparent and as soon as the qualification details were posted on the USAT website, it was completely obvious that 3 of the 4 spots were reserved for those with a surname of Lopez.  (See my prediction from may of last year @ http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showpost.php?p=780222&postcount=7)


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## terryl965 (Aug 10, 2008)

mango.man said:


> Of course the USA did not send their best team. This has been discussed.
> 
> Steven Lopez, absolutly the best.
> 
> ...


 

I have to agree with you mango.man, to bad the very best will not be there, but politics will always give way to actual talent.


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## YoungMan (Aug 10, 2008)

Okay, the Americans did well when Taekwondo was an exhibition sport back in 1988 and 1992. They do not perform well currently. Aside from the Lopezes, name one current American favored to win the gold. I just don't think the Americans take it as seriously as athletes in other parts of the world. Why should they, when everything is handed to them?
Me? I'll be rooting for the athletes (Taekwondo included) who aren't looking to get their faces on a Wheaties box.


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## mango.man (Aug 11, 2008)

YoungMan said:


> Okay, the Americans did well when Taekwondo was an exhibition sport back in 1988 and 1992. They do not perform well currently. Aside from the Lopezes, name one current American favored to win the gold. I just don't think the Americans take it as seriously as athletes in other parts of the world. Why should they, when everything is handed to them?
> Me? I'll be rooting for the athletes (Taekwondo included) who aren't looking to get their faces on a Wheaties box.


 
Well, other than the Lopez's, there is only one other USA TKD team member in Beijing.  Remember each country can only send 4 (2 male and 2 female).  Her name is Charlotte Craig, and I think that she has an excellent shot at medaling.  She was a last minute fill in at last year's World Championships, also held in Beijing, and she picked up a bronze there.  She didn't even know she was going to Worlds until just a week or 2 before the event.


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## cali_tkdbruin (Aug 17, 2008)

It would be completely cool if the 3 Texas Lopez siblings could earn medals at these Olympic Games. Not only are they the first 3 siblings to compete in the same Games since the turn of the last century, but TKD is a Korean martial art. So for 3 Americans to medal in this great, beautiful martial art brings pride to my country. I'm a Yankee martial artist, so I guess I'm biased... :idunno:

Anyway, the Lopezes aren't event Asian Americans, they're Latinos, Nicaraguan-Americans. Since TKD is practiced worldwide, now you don't even have to be Korean or from Korea, the birthplace of my art, to be on the elite level.


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## terryl965 (Aug 17, 2008)

Yes the Lopezs are a family united and a family that has had alot of string pulled to get them all on the same team. I will wish them the best because they are our athletes but I still do not believe this was the best team to send. Lets hope we win medals in all four matches.


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## YoungMan (Aug 18, 2008)

I will root for the best athletes. If it's not the Lopezes that's fine. From what I've seen of the Americans they don't impress me.


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## igillman (Aug 18, 2008)

It sounds like they wasted everyones time and money by holding the olympic tryouts. They should have just announced who they were picking at a press conference.


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## mango.man (Aug 18, 2008)

The brackets have been posted.  Don't forget if you want to follow the action live, to subtract 15 hours (for those of us on the west coast) from the posted start times.  So for instance, Charlotte Craig's first fight (Vs Switzerland) is at 7:15PM Pacific Time Tuesday night.

http://www.usa-taekwondo.us/ has links to the brackets and times.


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## Miles (Aug 18, 2008)

I hope the USA does very well in Taekwondo.  I think it helps the visibility of the sport to have the Lopez family marketed as the first family.  It does not hurt that Ms. Craig is also very photogenic.

What we do with that visibility is up to us-do we capitalize on this opportunity and teach true Taekwondo to a whole new group of interested students or do we let the moment pass by saying it is just a small part of the art?  You decide!


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## crushing (Aug 19, 2008)

The matches have started, I don't think they are on NBC, so you may have to view them here:  http://www.nbcolympics.com/taekwondo/index.html


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## mango.man (Aug 19, 2008)

That is the only place to see them.

TPE defeated COL in the first fight of the night, 0 to -1


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## Loomie (Aug 19, 2008)

The first fight was very boring. Both girls seemed very gun shy. The third fight was pretty decent. Looking forward to watching Charlotte Craig hopefully win!


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## IcemanSK (Aug 19, 2008)

Charlotte was impressive in comparison to many, so far. I even saw her throw a puch. All kidding aside, it's a good start for her.


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## crushing (Aug 19, 2008)

IcemanSK said:


> Charlotte was impressive in comparison to many, so far. I even saw her throw a puch. All kidding aside, it's a good start for her.


 
I agree.  I thought she looked pretty relaxed too.


Do you think the GER woman's kicks to the head should have counted?


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## Loomie (Aug 19, 2008)

I also agree. She looked good to me. Hope she medals


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## IcemanSK (Aug 19, 2008)

crushing said:


> I agree. I thought she looked pretty relaxed too.
> 
> 
> *Do you think the GER woman's kicks to the head should have counted?[/*quote]
> ...


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## mango.man (Aug 19, 2008)

Big time congrats to Charlotte.  Her next fight is at 12:30AM Pacific vs VEN.  She looked awesome in her first fight scoring on 2 counter and 2 hard off the line kicks.

Cuba got totally screwed.  Watching that fight was like watching Nia Vs Diana.  WOW!!!


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## Windsinger (Aug 19, 2008)

Canada's Ivett Gonda was robbed!

(Okay, I'm biased. I admit it. )

Seriously, though, she landed a few kick I though should have counted. Not to take anything away from the Swedish fighter.

All in all, I'm enjoying the competitions so far.

Karine Sergerie for gold!


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## Laurentkd (Aug 19, 2008)

So far there seems to be a lot more action than I remember seeing last Olympics.  It is nice to actually see kicks being thrown instead of just watching the stare down!


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## Laurentkd (Aug 19, 2008)

It also looks like they are all wearing the new hand guards but no one has on the new foot guards.  Have the foot guards been dropped? Are the gloves required?


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## mango.man (Aug 20, 2008)

Laurentkd said:


> It also looks like they are all wearing the new hand guards but no one has on the new foot guards. Have the foot guards been dropped? Are the gloves required?


 
Yes and Yes


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## Windsinger (Aug 20, 2008)

Just watching the quarter-finals match between Thailand and Vietnam. The Vietnam fighter called a time out, and her coach sprayed something on her leg under her shin guard. Can anyone tell me what that was? I'm curious.

Thanks in advance.


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## mango.man (Aug 20, 2008)

cold spray to numb away some pain most likely


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## Windsinger (Aug 20, 2008)

Thank you. I was wondering about that.


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## DojangMom (Aug 20, 2008)

Windsinger said:


> Karine Sergerie for gold!



Yeah!! :ultracool


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## Loomie (Aug 20, 2008)

I was getting annoyed at the girl in the round before Diana Lopeze's round.She'd do a little fist pump when she thought she scored. Well Diana did it too....hehe, her kihap got on my nerves. I thinking I hope I don't sound like that during our sparring.....Diana's second point was a nice move though


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## Loomie (Aug 20, 2008)

The 57k women's round Turkey vs Malaysia was awesome. Scoring back and forth.


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## hinky (Aug 20, 2008)

Appears to me that Olympic TKD helped the sport before it actually appeared. Once it did, it is clear why NBC decided to bury it as deeply as possible. It's even more difficult to watch the dancing, squawking chickenfest than it is to watch the joke called "boxing." It's a staredown - hands down (!!!) - and then the unleashing of kick after kick without any true defense against the punch. Any great habits that you learn as a martial artist are thrown out the window for this boring, staring contest.

On occasion there is action but mostly it's dull. Even my brother who has never taken a martial arts or boxing class thought both were pitiful systems designed to score points in a completely unnatural way. Now it appears some of these fighters do posses some great talent but it must take a lot of training to learn all the terrible habits you see at the Olympics. I don't know how some of these martial artists would fare in something like K-1 but if you train to spar like what I've seen then you can expect to get killed in any kickboxing match. You will do well in the one legged hop races in your local carnival.

It's sad. TKD will be a thing of the past after the 2012 Olympics where it will be buried online again. It should have been synchronized swimming, steeplechase, rhthmic gymanstics, handball or some other useless activity masquerading as a sport.


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## IcemanSK (Aug 20, 2008)

hinky said:


> Appears to me that Olympic TKD helped the sport before it actually appeared. Once it did, it is clear why NBC decided to bury it as deeply as possible. It's even more difficult to watch the dancing, squawking chickenfest than it is to watch the joke called "boxing." It's a staredown - hands down (!!!) - and then the unleashing of kick after kick without any true defense against the punch. Any great habits that you learn as a martial artist are thrown out the window for this boring, staring contest.
> 
> On occasion there is action but mostly it's dull. Even my brother who has never taken a martial arts or boxing class thought both were pitiful systems designed to score points in a completely unnatural way. Now it appears some of these fighters do posses some great talent but it must take a lot of training to learn all the terrible habits you see at the Olympics. I don't know how some of these martial artists would fare in something like K-1 but if you train to spar like what I've seen then you can expect to get killed in any kickboxing match. You will do well in the one legged hop races in your local carnival.
> 
> It's sad. TKD will be a thing of the past after the 2012 Olympics where it will be buried online again. It should have been synchronized swimming, steeplechase, rhthmic gymanstics, handball or some other useless activity masquerading as a sport.


 

Wrestling, & Judo were also only online. They don't like contact sports, I guess.


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## hinky (Aug 20, 2008)

IcemanSK said:


> Wrestling, & Judo were also only online. They don't like contact sports, I guess.



Everything is avaialble online. I watched those two sports on MSNBC even though it's not live. I didn't see any time when TKD would be on MSNBC. After seeing what it is, save yourself. It's an embarrassing roundhouse kickfest.


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## mango.man (Aug 21, 2008)

hinky said:


> Everything is avaialble online. I watched those two sports on MSNBC even though it's not live. I didn't see any time when TKD would be on MSNBC. After seeing what it is, save yourself. It's an embarrassing roundhouse kickfest.


 
What you saw on MSNBC of Judo and Wrestling was only because USA team members picked up medals.  There was no Judo or Wrestling scheduled for TV coverage.  Just like if USA medals in TKD, you will see replays on MSNBC or one of the other 25 TV channels covering the games even though there is no TKD scheduled for TV coverage.

With regards to your perception of the Olympic game of TKD, Why don't you make your way onto the USA 2012 Olympic team and show the world how it is done if you think you can do better?


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## matt.m (Aug 21, 2008)

Kwanjang said:


> So, it's time for the 2008 Summoer Olympic Games. This means some TKD action. hopefully the crowd won't boo like the last time. (maybe thats why it did not get much tv time- last time.) I have had this conversation with my instructor. Do you think TKD becoming an olympic sport has helped or hurt the art.


 
Oh wow is this going to sound like a double edge answer from me so don't flame too hard.  Kwanjang knows my GM Charles Hildebrand very well.  So learning TKD from Charle's perspective is "Train like you fight, then dumb it down to follow the rules."  The man is a walking encyclopedia in TKD and Hapkido.  He like me is always in Self defense mode.  It is reflective at how St. L always does a great job at tournaments in sparring.  Olympic, AAU, and Point.  Last year we sent two competitors to the AAU and the qualified for nationals.

I am not a fan of TKD chess if you will.  In my opinion living in St. L there are so many McDojo's it makes me sick.  I am not kidding, 3 yr contract via eft and a guarantee of a 2nd dan at the end.  A lot of schools are broken up into 4 categories of specificity: Demo, Sparring, those there for exercise with horrible technique, and those who want to go to the olympics.

I thought, and I have grown up in Moo Sul Kwan since 1979, that Judo, Tae Kwon Do  and Hapkido encompass all aspects not just one individual.

I really think that Olympic Tae Kwon Do has been bad for business in the aspect that a lot of schools do a rush job on getting their students a black belt.  I feel sorry for the folks who get attacked on the street.  They would become "Street Pizza."

I know of 2 clubs specifically where 7 people got their black belt in 1 yr.  How sad.

Judo is not innocent either, I know of many judo clubs in St. L that have promoted folks to 1st dan in 2 yrs and under.  The black belts always look like yellow-green belts with all their mistakes.  So commercialism has been good, quality not so much.  It takes 10,000 reps of 1 technique to understand its principle.  These BB Spa's don't have to do 10,000 reps it total to have their black belt.

Notice I didn't say "Earn" in any part of this post as I don't believe it to be relevant.


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## mango.man (Aug 22, 2008)

mango.man said:


> OK, let's see. TKD was introduced to the Olympics in 1988 as an exhibition sport. All 8 weight divisions were used and each country could send 1 male and 1 female athelte per division.
> 
> I am not sure if the USA sent all 16 that they could or not, but 11 did medal
> 
> ...


 
I just wanted to update this message so that when this topic comes up again in 4 years all the info will be at our fingertips:

In 2008 the rules were the same as 2000 and 2004.

The USA sent 4 atheletes and 3 medaled.

2008 Mark Lopez - Silver
2008 Steven Lopez - Bronze
2008 Diana Lopez - Bronze


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