# Tamashiwari



## Yokozuna514 (Jun 20, 2022)

I entered into the tournament for a second time as itt was again for a worthy cause (Canadian Cancer Society).    Most of my students did well and to me I think it's important to walk the walk if you are gong to encourage anyone to compete,   At the end of the day, raising the funds for CCS is the most important part of the excise, learning what I need to do to get better is just a bonus.

Tamashiwari is the art of board breaking and we do this in Kyokushine for a number of reasons.   Breaking boards tells us the truth of our technique.   Either the boards break or they do not.   Boards are 11" x 12" x 1" thick stacked one on top of the other with no gaps,  I upped the number of boards this year and perhaps I overshot on two of the 4 disciplines,   The four disciplines were:   Seiken (fist), Sokto (Blade of foot), Shuto (knife hand), Hiji (elbow).   I attempted 6, 8, 6, & 7 boards respectively.   I was unsuccessful on  Seiken and Hiji.   Out of the 10 competitors, no one was successful with Seiken.   Hiji, I broke 6 out of 7 but that still scored me a 0 as I didn't break them all.    In this tournament you have the option to attempt the unsuccessful strikes again but with maximum 3 boards.   I opted for the rebreak and although I was successful the second time, it only allowed me to finish in 5th place.

I hope to be back for a 3rd time next year and I hope to see this tournament continue to grow and raise funds for the CCS.


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## O'Malley (Jun 20, 2022)

No wonder you didn't make it on the seiken. After all, fake Japanese tameshiwari comes from Korean breaking Gwonbup. In pictures it looks Gwonbup because Japanese did not have hitting from the front. Great master Yoon Ji-gong says it's Gwonbup. 

Now you wait here while I search for my trusty historical pictures from history, because those are scholarly sources that you cannot contradict. Hitting the front is Korean.


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## J. Pickard (Jun 20, 2022)

O'Malley said:


> No wonder you didn't make it on the seiken. After all, fake Japanese tameshiwari comes from Korean breaking Gwonbup. In pictures it looks Gwonbup because Japanese did not have hitting from the front. Great master Yoon Ji-gong says it's Gwonbup.
> 
> Now you wait here while I search for my trusty historical pictures from history, because those are scholarly sources that you cannot contradict. Hitting the front is Korean.


Fake news. The only known historical texts to mention Gwonbup are in the muyejebo and the revised muyesinbo (16th century). Both of which are compiled into one chapter on gwonbup in the Muyedobo tongji (18th century). Within those it is expressly mentioned that Gwonbup is the Korean interpretation of Shaolin fist from China as adapted by Jang Song Qi. It mentions kicking, grappling, striking, jumping but nothing about testing skills through breaking. It is also expressly stated that most of what is known of Gwonbup is passed down through oral traditions by means of poetry so many skills were lost or misinterpreted  over time.

Source: Muyedobo Tongji Book 4, Chapter 1

Early Shoalin pictograms (around 13th century) show  breaking tiles as a display of martial prowess, so more accurately it is a Chinese practice adopted by both the Koreans and Japanese


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## Dirty Dog (Jun 20, 2022)

O'Malley said:


> No wonder you didn't make it on the seiken. After all, fake Japanese tameshiwari comes from Korean breaking Gwonbup. In pictures it looks Gwonbup because Japanese did not have hitting from the front. Great master Yoon Ji-gong says it's Gwonbup.
> 
> Now you wait here while I search for my trusty historical pictures from history, because those are scholarly sources that you cannot contradict. Hitting the front is Korean.


What a load of codswallop.


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## J. Pickard (Jun 20, 2022)

Dirty Dog said:


> codswallop.


This is a new word for me and it made me chuckle. I'm gonna start using it.


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## O'Malley (Jun 21, 2022)

Dirty Dog said:


> What a load of codswallop.


Korean Breaking was not from fighting martial arts. It was from power circus regardless of how it was for Japan and China. There are historical records proving that Korean Breaking was from power circus Kihapsul/Charyuk/Kiaijutsu. Masato Tamura testified that Kihapsul/Kiaijutsu/Charyuk had Breaking. Aside from how Iron Palm & Karate managed Breaking, Korea had Breaking as power circus; Masato Tamura testified such form of Breaking really existed in 1940.

Also, circular slap, scrunchie side hitting nonsense is a lie for Subak. Subak had straight slap, swing slap hitting front (it's possible & common), punches. Also, Korean had Sibak besides Subak as well as also having Gwonbeop even 100 years ago as proven by Mas Oyama's book "Karate for a million people". Subak had frontal slap cause Manchuria's Subak Dance & Korean Taekkyeon (both the Sibak Yetbub and also the regular Taekkyeon) & Subyuk have frontal slap. Big conspiracy to claim they all lied and made up frontal slap. There are also ancient Subak pictures which look like frontal slap to head or chest. Pictures are acceptable proof commonly accepted in history. Therefore, Subak had punch and frontal slap.

Subak - Wikipedia Comb picture.

Koreans invented hitting the front. How do you contradict this without contradicting my sources from sourceable history? Japanese made a big conspiracy to claim ownership of breaking things but way before Japan had any breaking Korea had Gwonbup, which means "frontal slap clackledockling".


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## J. Pickard (Jun 21, 2022)

O'Malley said:


> Korean Breaking was not from fighting martial arts. It was from power circus regardless of how it was for Japan and China. There are historical records proving that Korean Breaking was from power circus Kihapsul/Charyuk/Kiaijutsu. Masato Tamura testified that Kihapsul/Kiaijutsu/Charyuk had Breaking. Aside from how Iron Palm & Karate managed Breaking, Korea had Breaking as power circus; Masato Tamura testified such form of Breaking really existed in 1940.
> 
> Also, circular slap, scrunchie side hitting nonsense is a lie for Subak. Subak had straight slap, swing slap hitting front (it's possible & common), punches. Also, Korean had Sibak besides Subak as well as also having Gwonbeop even 100 years ago as proven by Mas Oyama's book "Karate for a million people". Subak had frontal slap cause Manchuria's Subak Dance & Korean Taekkyeon (both the Sibak Yetbub and also the regular Taekkyeon) & Subyuk have frontal slap. Big conspiracy to claim they all lied and made up frontal slap. There are also ancient Subak pictures which look like frontal slap to head or chest. Pictures are acceptable proof commonly accepted in history. Therefore, Subak had punch and frontal slap.
> 
> ...


Your source cites itself as chinese from the Qing dynasty. Its right there at the bottom of the picture.

Additionally. Every refference source from this wikipedia page is a reference to either a modern Taekwondo or "subak" text that makes certain assumption but has no historical evidence to back it up (heresay at best) and 4 of them are just uncited images from imgur with no context. There is no historical reference or academic text hat can be examined anywhere in this article. Additionally your claim was originally that breaking was invented in Korean Gwonbup which, as I mentioned above, is nonsense. Changing your argument to "it actually came from Korean circus and hitting the front was invented in Subak" is akin to changing the goalpost. Additionally the Koreans did not "invent" hitting the front. Hitting a target straight in front of you was developed on multiple continents across multiple times because its the most effective way to hit someone. They may have descovered it on their own, but so did literally every other culture in the world. You said Subak was around even 100 years ago, which is also demonstrably false because 100 years ago was 1920 when Japan anexed Korea and banned various korean cultural practices including martial arts. 

Additionally, according to the encyclopedia britannica, an actually reliable source, pugilism (with striking to the front) existed in Greece as early as 1500 BCE ove 3500 years ago and in an anthropologial paper published in The American Journal of Philology in 1990 by anthropologist Nigel B. Crowther and John Hopkins University (you can download here https://www.jstor.org/stable/294973 ) demonstrates through anthropological evidence that kicking was also a common part of ancient greek boxing. So no, none of it was "invented" as a purely korean invention. As far as the "korean power circus" inventing breaking I cant seem to find any information outside of this forum on such a thing and the earliest record listed here is that it was seen by japanese in the 1920s. Even if I accept that part as true, there are still records that go back to early Shaolin in the 15th century (over 600 years ago) breaking things for show, most common is clay roof tiles/shingles. Even farther back around the 2nd century BCE Muay Thai fighters were breaking wood and stones as a form of conditioning.  20 minutes of looking this stuff up and you could have seen your sources are unreliable at best and dubiously dishonest at worst. 
No aspect of martial arts was developed purley by one nation at one time. Many nations developed the same and similar martial practices independently because there are only so many ways the human body can effectively move for fighting. 

And to finish this rant off, calling something "fake" because they got the idea from another country, like you did when you called it "fake japanese" breaking, is absurd. Cars were invented by germans, that doesnt make Toyota or Ford "fake cars" because they werent made in germany.


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## _Simon_ (Jun 21, 2022)

Fantastic, well done mate, amazing effort!! That's an insane amount of boards haha, much respect, osu!


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## O'Malley (Jun 21, 2022)

J. Pickard said:


> Your source cites itself as chinese from the Qing dynasty. Its right there at the bottom of the picture.
> 
> Additionally. Every refference source from this wikipedia page is a reference to either a modern Taekwondo or "subak" text that makes certain assumption but has no historical evidence to back it up (heresay at best) and 4 of them are just uncited images from imgur with no context. There is no historical reference or academic text hat can be examined anywhere in this article. Additionally your claim was originally that breaking was invented in Korean Gwonbup which, as I mentioned above, is nonsense. Changing your argument to "it actually came from Korean circus and hitting the front was invented in Subak" is akin to changing the goalpost. Additionally the Koreans did not "invent" hitting the front. Hitting a target straight in front of you was developed on multiple continents across multiple times because its the most effective way to hit someone. They may have descovered it on their own, but so did literally every other culture in the world. You said Subak was around even 100 years ago, which is also demonstrably false because 100 years ago was 1920 when Japan anexed Korea and banned various korean cultural practices including martial arts.
> 
> ...


Not too long ago we had that one guy who made a number of threads to claim that Koreans had invented hitting from the front and breaking stuff. He even changed the whole Wikipedia page for tameshiwari, very dedicated guy. So I was parodying those threads but the joke was a bit too "meta". Hate to have to explain it but I felt bad for making you put so much effort into this post, which was very informative BTW.






						History of Korean Breaking before Karate started Breaking
					

I'm a bit hostile to Japan, but I'm not a troll. I'm not doing this for the fun of causing anxiety. I'm just spreading the truth and the facts. I feel obligation to it. I don't want my country Korea to lose nor share any of its traditional wealth, which is why it's important to clearly...



					www.martialtalk.com
				




Trolling aside, props to @Yokozuna514 for walking the walk!


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## Dirty Dog (Jun 21, 2022)

O'Malley said:


> Not too long ago we had that one guy who made a number of threads to claim that Koreans had invented hitting from the front and breaking stuff. He even changed the whole Wikipedia page for tameshiwari, very dedicated guy. So I was parodying those threads but the joke was a bit too "meta". Hate to have to explain it but I felt bad for making you put so much effort into this post, which was very informative BTW.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Just an FYI...
Trolling is a violation of the TOS, but we get that you were joking rather than trying to generate outrage. 
However...
The folks in the back room remember people like Steven Lee. And your parody was spot on. As a result, we start to wonder if your account has been hacked or if Steven Lee has created a new account to evade his ban. Which then leads to me doing a deep dive into the IP logs, checking to see if someone is using a VPN, and on from there.
So maybe (and this is meant as information for all, not just you) if you're going to do this sort of parody, drop a tag line or something in the post so we know it's not something we need to dig into.


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## J. Pickard (Jun 21, 2022)

well now I just feel like I fell for the greatest practical joke on the forum 😆

Glad we can all agree OP did great in his competition.


O'Malley said:


> Not too long ago we had that one guy who made a number of threads to claim that Koreans had invented hitting from the front and breaking stuff. He even changed the whole Wikipedia page for tameshiwari, very dedicated guy. So I was parodying those threads but the joke was a bit too "meta". Hate to have to explain it but I felt bad for making you put so much effort into this post, which was very informative BTW.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## drop bear (Jun 21, 2022)

O'Malley said:


> Not too long ago we had that one guy who made a number of threads to claim that Koreans had invented hitting from the front and breaking stuff. He even changed the whole Wikipedia page for tameshiwari, very dedicated guy. So I was parodying those threads but the joke was a bit too "meta". Hate to have to explain it but I felt bad for making you put so much effort into this post, which was very informative BTW.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yeah. There is a belief that everything was invented in Korea or something.


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## drop bear (Jun 21, 2022)

Anyway. This thread needs more Bruce Haynes.


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## _Simon_ (Jun 21, 2022)

O'Malley said:


> Not too long ago we had that one guy who made a number of threads to claim that Koreans had invented hitting from the front and breaking stuff. He even changed the whole Wikipedia page for tameshiwari, very dedicated guy. So I was parodying those threads but the joke was a bit too "meta". Hate to have to explain it but I felt bad for making you put so much effort into this post, which was very informative BTW.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


MATE!!! I was literally thinking about that guy reading through your posts, and I legitimately thought he had hacked your account!!! Was going to say something! As soon as I saw the word Gwonbup it triggered me haha.

Bravo sir, bravo 🤣👏🏻


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## Gerry Seymour (Jun 22, 2022)

O'Malley said:


> Not too long ago we had that one guy who made a number of threads to claim that Koreans had invented hitting from the front and breaking stuff. He even changed the whole Wikipedia page for tameshiwari, very dedicated guy. So I was parodying those threads but the joke was a bit too "meta". Hate to have to explain it but I felt bad for making you put so much effort into this post, which was very informative BTW.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You did it too well.


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## Gyakuto (Jul 7, 2022)

J. Pickard said:


> This is a new word for me and it made me chuckle. I'm gonna start using it.


It comes from a type of Victorian fizzy drinks bottle with a marble (cod) closing the aperture through gas pressure. To open it, one used a kind of dowel with pad on top. The dowel was placed on top of the marble and the pad struck (‘walloped’) to break the pressure seal and vent part of the CO2, and thus open the bottle. 

Codswallop may be used in polite company in Britain in the way our US cousins might use ‘bullsh*t’.


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## Gyakuto (Jul 8, 2022)

J. Pickard said:


> This is a new word for me and it made me chuckle. I'm gonna start using it.


Also try using ‘bunkum’, ‘hogwash’, ‘blather’, ‘balderdash’, ‘claptrap’, ‘bilge’, ‘drivel’ and ‘gobbledygook’. These are all words we English use _everyday_ and our press frequently used when reporting on a certain ex-PM’s utterances!


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