# Picking Your Targets



## MJS (Dec 4, 2007)

When you're fighting or running thru your techniques, do you pick your targets or aim for the general area?  For example:  You're striking to the face.  Do you just throw the strike and take whatever you get or do you look for something specific such as the nose or eyes?  This can apply to the rest of the body as well.

Personally, I like to look for the specific target, but hey, in the heat of the moment, it may not always be an option.  Sure, the hit to the eye may take the fight out of him sooner, but if thats not an option, I'm not going to sacrifice a general hit to the facial area.  I'm bound to hit something.


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## Guardian (Dec 4, 2007)

_I've been in enough altercations to know that being target specific is usually not an option (as you pointed out), as long as I connect to where I am aiming in general, I'm happy with that._


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## exile (Dec 4, 2007)

MJS said:


> When you're fighting or running thru your techniques, do you pick your targets or aim for the general area?  For example:  You're striking to the face.  Do you just throw the strike and take whatever you get or do you look for something specific such as the nose or eyes?  This can apply to the rest of the body as well.
> 
> Personally, I like to look for the specific target, but hey, in the heat of the moment, it may not always be an option.  *Sure, the hit to the eye may take the fight out of him sooner, but if thats not an option, I'm not going to sacrifice a general hit to the facial area.  I'm bound to hit something. *



That's exactly how I think of the throat/neck/jaw area. There are so many plexi and sinuses and small breakable bones and shock-transmitting skeletal structures in that part of the body that a hard strike in a small area is going to do some very useful damage, regardless. 

I think more important than focusing on the target of attack to the last square millimeter is making sure that your impact weapon is as small as you can get it. It's like I tell my students about why balance is at least as important as power in kicking: no matter how powerful the strike, if the force is spread out over too big an area, the effect is going to be much less than it could be. Good balance makes it much easier to get yourself configured to strike using the smallest possible surface&#8212;the forward part of the heel in a side kick, say, rather than the whole bloody sole. A somewhat less powerful thrust kick with a very small striking surface can do way more damage than a very hard forceful kick with a big striking surface; board breaking really illustrates this point (one of the many reasons why it can be a very valuable part of training)

In the same way, a knifehand can be very effective or relatively ineffective for the same terminal velocity of the strike, depending on how narrow you can make the striking ridge&#8212;which means attention to small details of angle, hand tension, the placement of fingers. Training for precision in the striking tool itself is, I think, more important than pinpoint surgical accuracy in the specific location targeted, as long as the general area is one with a range of valuable targets...


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## KempoGuy06 (Dec 4, 2007)

I train target specific. My reasoning behind this is muscle memory. While muscle memory works for SD's and stuff, so when you are in the heat of things it comes natural but I dont know if it works in a target specific sense. Theoretically it should be the same. With that being said if you train target specific it shoule be more likely that you would hit that specific target in an altercation on the street, if you dont hit the target spot you will still connect somewhere within the area and still cause damage.

Does this sound good? What do you all think of this?

B


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## Sensei Payne (Dec 4, 2007)

Guardian said:


> _I've been in enough altercations to know that being target specific is usually not an option (as you pointed out), as long as I connect to where I am aiming in general, I'm happy with that._


 
Agreed


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## MJS (Dec 4, 2007)

KempoGuy06 said:


> I train target specific. My reasoning behind this is muscle memory. While muscle memory works for SD's and stuff, so when you are in the heat of things it comes natural but I dont know if it works in a target specific sense. Theoretically it should be the same. With that being said if you train target specific it shoule be more likely that you would hit that specific target in an altercation on the street, if you dont hit the target spot you will still connect somewhere within the area and still cause damage.
> 
> Does this sound good? What do you all think of this?
> 
> B


 
Sounds good to me.


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## JadecloudAlchemist (Dec 4, 2007)

One of my old Boxing coaches use to say" When you hit em in the nose thats when the fun starts" 
I usually aim for what ever is able. But I also take in consideration my opponent. Meaning in my experience hitting a 250lb line backer type guy in the stomach area may not be as great as hitting him in the throat region.
So for me taking advatage of what target is available and knowing my opponent determines my strikes.


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## redfang (Dec 4, 2007)

JadecloudAlchemist said:


> One of my old Boxing coaches use to say" When you hit em in the nose thats when the fun starts"
> I usually aim for what ever is able. But I also take in consideration my opponent. Meaning in my experience hitting a 250lb line backer type guy in the stomach area may not be as great as hitting him in the throat region.
> So for me taking advatage of what target is available and knowing my opponent determines my strikes.


Good point. To a degree one automaticaly picks a specific target, or you might as well close your eyes and swing for the fences. Depending on the opponent. That said, your specific target doesn't have to be 2 cm sq, it can be fairly large. In a fight, expect that you aren't going to hit the target a lot of the time. I'm pretty average sized. I probably would not attack the same targets on someone the size of an offensive lineman as someone closer to my own size. There needs to be a target, face, neck, upper leg, knee, torso etc.


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## Blindside (Dec 4, 2007)

Aim small, miss small.  If I aim at a small target and miss so be it, I'll probably in the general vicinity, if I just aim a big target, I may miss entirely.

Lamont


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## thardey (Dec 4, 2007)

I've done some surveying work this summer, and they use a principle similar to Lamont's for marking pins.

They'll mark a pin down to the 1/10th of an inch, for work being done the size of a football field, with bulldozers. There's no way these guys can achieve that kind of accuracy, so I asked why the surveyors spent the extra time to be so precise.

The answer they gave me was that if they put the pin in exactly the right spot, the bulldozer will miss by a little bit, then the concrete layer will miss the bulldozer's work by a little bit, then the carpenters will miss the the concrete by a little bit, but over all, everything will be close enough.

If the surveyors were off on their pins, then the bulldozers will be farther off to start, and down the line there will be more error.

I think of it the same way in a fight. I will train for specific targets: eyes, throat, nose, solar plexus, groin, etc, and will aim for them in a fight, knowing that if I miss, I will still hit somewhere along the centerline, which can still cause damage.

If I aim for the face and miss, then I miss completely.


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## Xue Sheng (Dec 4, 2007)

Guardian said:


> _I've been in enough altercations to know that being target specific is usually not an option (as you pointed out), as long as I connect to where I am aiming in general, I'm happy with that._


 

yup, that about covers it


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## morph4me (Dec 4, 2007)

Guardian said:


> _I've been in enough altercations to know that being target specific is usually not an option (as you pointed out), as long as I connect to where I am aiming in general, I'm happy with that._


 
Yep, there's too much going on and to many variables to gaurantee pinpoint accuracy,  so I look for what's available and get as close as I can to where I'm aiming.


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## jks9199 (Dec 4, 2007)

Aim small, miss small is a good principle.  Training for focused, small targets is a good principle, too.

And I use both... but I also use a zone-based approach.  I'll strike to the large zone first (center of the chest, for example).  Then, within that zone, I can focus more narrowly (sternum).  

And, to lift an idea from shooting... I aim for what's available.  In combative shooting, we aim at the center of the visible mass.  That's the chest/upper abdomen in a person standing square in front of you.  If they're standing sideways, it's around the elbow, but if all that's visible is the upper arm and shoulder, it's kind of in the middle of the shoulder.  In hand-to-hand, you do the same thing; if all that they're leaving available for you is their leg -- that's what you hit.


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## still learning (Dec 4, 2007)

Hello,  We will automatic tarket those areas...we train for..

We will hit them the way we train in class...

HENCE: ...you will fight the way you were train....DO YOU HIT TARKETS WITH FORCE IN PRACTICE? 

Most of us tarket the head first...than the rest of body...just a more natural intinct even for those who never trains at all....watch any fights

Aloha ( my tarket is to avoid any confrontations...that is my aim!)

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PS: My aim is to keep the toilet clean...you aim will help too...


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## arnisador (Dec 4, 2007)

I do train targets but I don't expect to be lucky enough to hit them in a real fight. I train targets that will still have an effect if I'm in the general ballpark!


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## Steel Tiger (Dec 4, 2007)

Blindside said:


> Aim small, miss small. If I aim at a small target and miss so be it, I'll probably in the general vicinity, if I just aim a big target, I may miss entirely.
> 
> Lamont


 
This is, I think, the essence of why we do what we do.  Training so that focused targeting is simply part of how we react.  In this way we are looking to hit a small area even in the heat of an encounter when we are not really thinking about specific targets.

I have to say on those occasions when I have been in a fight I have been looking to hit, say, the head or the upper torso or the arm.  That 's my thinking, the effect, however, was a shot to the nose or the pecs or forearm or elbow.  I was not thinking of specific targets but broad areas but the result was striking a more specific location.


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## INDYFIGHTER (Dec 4, 2007)

I agree with the aim small, miss small concept as well.  In the heat of battle it may not matter but I like to think about specific targets when I practice.


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## Kacey (Dec 4, 2007)

Blindside said:


> Aim small, miss small.  If I aim at a small target and miss so be it, I'll probably in the general vicinity, if I just aim a big target, I may miss entirely.
> 
> Lamont



Definitely.


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## kidswarrior (Dec 4, 2007)

jks9199 said:


> I also use a zone-based approach.  I'll strike to the large zone first (center of the chest, for example).  Then, within that zone, I can focus more narrowly (sternum).


I train/teach a similar concept, but the zones we use in general are the high, mid, low regions. Which leads to *jks*' second point:  



> And, to lift an idea from shooting... I aim for what's available.... if all that they're leaving available for you is their leg -- that's what you hit.


But the leg is an oh-so-good target.  Talk about rich with smaller targets.... You almost can't miss something crucial with a good kick or even the right punch. This would be an example of our low-line target area, and of course, if I can hurt his leg, that's more likely to open up the high or mid-regions (e.g., drops his guard, is hobbled, or even falls down).


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## dewey (Dec 4, 2007)

From a practitioner of a non-striking art (Aikido), my realistic target is whatever arm you try to hit me with. My intent is, once you commit that arm (and I'm able to get a hold of it), I'm not going to let go until I can maneuver into an armbar or some other sort of joint lock. 

That's how we train at my dojo, at least. I'm not going to politely ask you to grab my wrist. I'll wait until you commit yourself to an attack. Whatever limb I get a hold of...I'm not letting go until I can manipulate the joint(s) to my advantage.


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## punisher73 (Dec 5, 2007)

I think you should train for specific targets.  If you train to hit precisely you are more apt to hit a moving target when the adrenaline gets flowing. Also, I think you need to have specific targets in mind so you know what it will do when struck there.  If you can recognize and have a target available to you that you know will give you a great return for you effort, it is better than not knowing target priority and taking a shot at something else that is also open that won't give you the same return.


Some people have used the "shooting" approach and talk about hitting visible center mass.  One of the things our department addresses is what happens when you don't have center mass available.  You better have spent the time and learned a little bit of precision shooting.  The scenario we use (that has happened before to LEO's) is the person is wearing body armour so your center mass shots aren't having effect.  You had better have trained for that to know how to recognize that and switch targets by either a) going lower and breaking the pelvic or b) going high and taking out his computer.

I think the same thing applies to fighting.  You need to know what targets are available to you and what you have as a backup plan if that fails.


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## ares (Dec 6, 2007)

I tend to aim for specific targets. If the strike is to the temple, I block out all parts of the face and only see the temple. I've been in some fights in my 40 years and people move differently then in the dojo, but if I move them where I want them to be, then I find it easier to hit those targets. I like to aim for the large areas first. Knee, thigh ect, then the joints. Stomach shots on a really fat man isn't as effective then a side blade kick to the knee. scott


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## zDom (Dec 7, 2007)

Very specific dime-sized targets (with not only X and Y coordinates, but also Z for specific penetration  )

"Aim small, miss small."


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## tshadowchaser (Dec 7, 2007)

When sparing in class it depends on whom I am sparing with and what I want to accomplish at that moment.
I think a few on the board will attest that I do tend to target areas on the arms and legs, at times to get my point across
I like to practice hitting certain targets because if I ever need to use the technique again in the street i want to be sure to hit the target


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## Sukerkin (Dec 7, 2007)

It'll come as no surprise, given my art, when I say that precision is de rigeur in iai.  

It's completely analagous to rifle-shooting, except whereas you use the sights on a gun to determine point of impact, we aim the mouth of the saya where the cut is going to go - ideally I should know where I'm going to hit before my right hand even touches the tsuka.  

However, unlike with a gun where once you've pulled the trigger your influence over the shot is over, with the sword we can alter our aimpoint on the fly if the target should move.  That's a skill I'm working on at present as making the visualisation work convincingly is very difficult as, in effect, you have to surprise yourself .


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## JadeDragon3 (Dec 28, 2007)

Depends on who the opponent is. I train for specific targets (eyes, nose, throat, groin, knees, etc...) but in reality who knows if during the heat of battle if you will hit that target or not. Everyone would like to think they will hit thier target. But for example, if I'm aiming for the nose and I hit him in the jaw instead.....oh well. I hope I break his jaw instead of his nose. I like the throat area though because it's a little bit larger target. If I'm fighting someone that I'm pretty confident that I can beat then I obviously I wouldn't go for such areas as the throat or knees.


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## TrainHardFightEasy (Dec 28, 2007)

Don't mean to sound too raw here but I usually like belting them straight in the mouth and have no problems with this.


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