# Wing Chun or Northern Style Praying Mantis- ???



## lhall13 (Sep 16, 2011)

Hey everyone,

         I'm a current student of the Mike Foster Yoshukai Karate and I am wanting to branch towards a Chinese style of martial arts in a few years. I'm not someone that just jumps into something without some serious consideration and after looking around in my area I came across to Grandmasters each of their respective styles. There is Grandmaster Lee Swift and Grandmaster Pui Chan. Grandmaster Swift teaches Wing Chun and claims his lineage to the sons of Yip Man. Then there is also Grandmaster Pui Chan who teaches Northern Style Praying Mantis and claims lineage to Grandmaster Lee Kwan Shan. My confusion lies in my lack of understanding to Chinese martial arts. Whats the main differences between the two mentioned styles? I'm trying to find something that would be a good addition to my martial arts training. I only want to train in the Yoshukai Karate and a Chinese martial arts- any advice would be fantastic!


 LDH


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## clfsean (Sep 16, 2011)

Nutshell... broad wide ranging strokes... 

Wing Chun... Rent the movie Ip Man. Short, stand up, basic ideas, complex training for maximum efficiency. I'm not a WC guy.

Praying Mantis... Not Wing Chun. Wah Lum Mantis is long ranged in striking & kicking. I've studied PM before.

In both cases, it's easy to get lose sight of the forest due to trees. Know what I mean? Biggest question... what do you want?


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## WC_lun (Sep 17, 2011)

This is a generalization, but it is usually on the mark.  Southern or short arm styles, which Wing Chun is one of, mainly concentrate on the hands and use narrower stances. Northern styles tend to have wider stances, include more kicks, and have more twisting motions.  There are good teachers of each type and there are frauds as well.  Check out the schools before you make a decision.


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## seasoned (Sep 17, 2011)

(Northern styles emphasize more kicking techniques for long range fighting, while southern stylists specialize in more hand techniques and a limited number of low kicks. This is why it is commonly said "Southern fist and Northern leg", in Chinese martial arts society). Taken from Dr. Yang, Jwing-Ming's book "The Essence of Shaolin White crane". It has a lot to do with the cultural back ground of each region, as to how their martial arts progress.


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## Eric_H (Sep 19, 2011)

Do the mantis, WC requires a listening ability that most karate practitioners find difficult in my experience.


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## clfsean (Sep 19, 2011)

Eric_H said:


> Do the mantis, WC requires a listening ability that most karate practitioners find difficult in my experience.



Mantis listening hands isn't all that different.


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## ilhe4e12345 (Sep 19, 2011)

I actually study both 7 Star Praying Mantis and Wing Chun. I am only a first level Sash in WC and half way to black belt in mantis and ill tell you...the styles are completely different. It depends on what you are looking for in a chinese martial art. I love mantis for its devestation kicks, twisting and "popping" strikes. Its brutal and you learn a lot of interesting kick and hand attacks plus the forms are beautiful.

Wing Chun is short, simple devastating but very complex in its simple movements. I have only just recently "completed" the first firom in the IP Man lineage of WC and watching it you almost laugh at how simple it is...but then your teacher will show you the applications and in the first movement alone my eyes were opened......

both are amazing, both are great and beautiful styles but both are different....

you have to figure out what you want....honestly, sit in on a class or watch some videos. My primary style is 7 Star Mantis but i do take lessons on WC. Just dont take too many at once, as i got myself into a little trouble and had to put my Hsing-I training on hold (only learned the 5 Elements) 

 happy training


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## Eric_H (Sep 19, 2011)

clfsean said:


> Mantis listening hands isn't all that different.



First I've heard of the nothern mantis doing much like that. Southern is a different story.


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## clfsean (Sep 19, 2011)

Eric_H said:


> First I've heard of the nothern mantis doing much like that. Southern is a different story.



Northern will do it. If I'm not mistaken (not 100% on it) but 7 Star mantis practices Chi Sao. 

In the Mantis I've done, I've done Chi Sao/Tui Sao drills & such. Not saying it's like a southern shorthand, but it has qualities & similarities.

Hell I do stuff like that in CLF. Again, not the same, but still...


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## Flying Crane (Sep 19, 2011)

clfsean said:


> Biggest question... what do you want?



spot on, and I'll add to this thought a bit.

You've got to understand that different systems often are designed to function on a very specific type of foundation, and that can be vastly different from one system to another.  You've got to be careful to understand if one system can blend with another on a similar foundation, or if they are so different that they need to be kept separate and not mixed.  If different enough, then the practice of one can actually hamper the practice of the other.  If similar but still different, then the practice of one will be just a bit "off" compared to the other, and again you can find that the systems "conflict" with each other.  Practicing one develops bad habits for the other, and vice versa.

I don't know anything about Yoshukai karate or Mantis, but I did study wing chun for a few years.  I know that Wing Chun works with a foundation that is somewhat unique and very specific.  The system that I train is Tibetan White Crane.  Wing Chun is incompatible as a training method, because the foundation and training methodologies are so different.  You cannot layer wing chun techniques on a white crane foundation, and vice versa.  They will not work that way.

For many years I attempted to study a few systems at the same time.  I finally got clarity and understood these conflicts.  When that happened, I jettisoned all but one, and that is the one that I like the most, that speaks to me the most, and for which I have the best instruction.  I just could no longer see any sense in trying to train the others, the practice of which was counter to the system that was best for me.

There is nothing wrong with exploring several different systems, but I think that ultimately what you should be trying to do is figure out what is best for you, so that you can place all of your focus on that one.  Making that decision can mean exploring for a while, but don't forget that ultimate goal.  When it comes to the martial arts, it really is better to master one, than to be a jack of all trades.  It is a rare individual who is able to really practice several systems and keep them all up to high quality.  Most of us cannot do it well enough to justify it, but many people BELIEVE they can.  I think they are misleading themselves.


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## Eric_H (Sep 19, 2011)

clfsean said:


> Northern will do it. If I'm not mistaken (not 100% on it) but 7 Star mantis practices Chi Sao.
> 
> In the Mantis I've done, I've done Chi Sao/Tui Sao drills & such. Not saying it's like a southern shorthand, but it has qualities & similarities.
> 
> Hell I do stuff like that in CLF. Again, not the same, but still...



Cool, good to know. Thanks.


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