# Is it Wrong When Free Weight Curls...



## KangTsai (Sep 30, 2016)

Work my shoulders more than my actual bicep? I've curled with 10kg dumbbells for a while now (about 10-11 reps), the work on my arm now seems to be more evenly distrbuted around my shoulder and outer bicep. Any comments/advice? Thanks.


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## paitingman (Sep 30, 2016)

Would you consider your biceps to be weak or needing some work? 
Are your shoulders notably strong?


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## KangTsai (Sep 30, 2016)

paitingman said:


> Would you consider your biceps to be weak or needing some work?
> Are your shoulders notably strong?


Other way around. My shoulders are the weakest part of my arms.


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## drop bear (Sep 30, 2016)

Going to say yeah.  That sounds wrong.


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## JowGaWolf (Oct 1, 2016)

I'm don't understand what you are trying to accomplish with your routine.  What do you want to accomplish by lifting the weights? What are you trying to make strong?


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## KangTsai (Oct 1, 2016)

JowGaWolf said:


> I'm don't understand what you are trying to accomplish with your routine.  What do you want to accomplish by lifting the weights? What are you trying to make strong?


You curl for bigger/stronger biceps.


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## Ademadis (Oct 1, 2016)

I don't know gym Jargon but instead of using dumbells you could try doing reverse curls on a cable machine (if you're at a gym). I find that replacing exercises every now and again spruce things up and keep you from getting into bad habits.


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## Charlemagne (Oct 1, 2016)

Check your technique. If you are standing, make sure that you are not bringing your arms forward at the shoulder, but rather keeping your upper arms near your sides and only flexing at the elbow. If you are on a preacher curl bench make sure you aren't cheating the lift by leaning back and throwing the weight up.  Also, replacing the exercise from time to time can be a good thing as well, as noted above.


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## jks9199 (Oct 2, 2016)

KangTsai said:


> Work my shoulders more than my actual bicep? I've curled with 10kg dumbbells for a while now (about 10-11 reps), the work on my arm now seems to be more evenly distrbuted around my shoulder and outer bicep. Any comments/advice? Thanks.


Yes.  

If you're doing them right, curls should be concentrated on the bicep unless you have a major lack of strength elsewhere.  You're elbows should essentially be acting like hinges, the upper arm staying as stationary as possible while you raise and lower the weight.  Here's a decent write up and video at BodyBuilding.com.  

If you're feeling stress in your shoulders, I'd guess the weight is probably too heavy, and you're compensating by kind of rolling the shoulders or shrugging to initiate the movement.  Another common error I see on standing curls is what I sometimes jokingly call "ankle curls" where the lifter initiates with a sway in the ankles or upper body...  Some of them are so bad that I think they're doing a hamstring exercise more than one for the arms!

Question though...  Why are you doing curls?  Do they fit with your goal -- or do you only think they do?  Note -- I haven't said they're bad, just that you want to make sure that the exercises you do with weights are consistent with your goals.


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## JowGaWolf (Oct 2, 2016)

KangTsai said:


> You curl for bigger/stronger biceps.


If this is your goal then you may be at high risk for some muscle imbalance issues. I say this because most people who only work out one muscle group will forget to work out other important muscle groups related to the muscle group they are making bigger.  For example, when you are doing standing curls, it's not just the biceps that you are working out.

"Curls primarily train the small (but mostly useless) biceps muscle, and doing too many too often can lead to bad posture and shoulder or elbow injury. "Curls pull your shoulders forward and bend your elbow out," says celebrity trainer Harley Pasternak, whose clients include Robert Downey Jr. and LL Cool J. "If your biceps are stronger than your triceps – which is the larger, stronger, and more important muscle – it will make your arms look shorter and your pecs droopy, and give you gorilla posture."  Source

Making your Biceps bigger is not the same as making them stronger.  A lot of time strength has more to do with functional strength vs, just bigger muscles.  From the view point of strength you can make you muscles only strong for one type of movement or you can make your muscles functionally strong.  These are things you'll need to keep in mind because if you just make your bicep muscle bigger without consideration of how your body functions and how the muscles pull your structure then you'll end up with some muscle  imbalances that will affect your martial arts and motion in general.


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## Gerry Seymour (Oct 3, 2016)

KangTsai said:


> Other way around. My shoulders are the weakest part of my arms.


Shoulders (deltoids) are a secondary muscle group in some bicep curls (there are several exercises/variations we could call "bicep curl"). So, if your shoulders are demonstrably weak compared to your biceps, you may feel it as much or more in that group. That said, it may also be a problem with form. Ask someone with good knowledge (preferably a personal trainer) to look at the form to make sure you're not putting undue stress on the shoulder. If you aren't, then it's just an imbalance, and should correct itself in time.

I have a similar issue with push-ups. My shoulders usually feel it before my chest or triceps. I've had a couple of injuries that kept my shoulders less-active, so I've lost some muscle mass there. Until I rebuild it, I'll continue to feel more in those support muscles than is normal for that exercise.


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## Flatfish (Oct 3, 2016)

Everybody trains for different reasons. If you want to do curls to grow your biceps for aesthetic reasons, then maybe try to get someone experienced to show you proper technique. Related to what JowGa was saying above, there are plenty of exercises that will train your biceps and other parts of your body in a way that would increase overall strength in maybe a more meaningful way. Think about pull ups for example. Works your back and arms and even your core. Change up grips every once in a while and you'll work the muscles slightly differently. But I realize it's a personal thing.


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## wingchun100 (Oct 3, 2016)

I would say do some front/side raises and overhead presses to get your shoulders stronger.


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## drop bear (Oct 3, 2016)

they are too heavy. There is no way you are doing proper bicept curls with 10kg. 

And that will be why your shoulders are sore.


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## drop bear (Oct 3, 2016)

JowGaWolf said:


> If this is your goal then you may be at high risk for some muscle imbalance issues. I say this because most people who only work out one muscle group will forget to work out other important muscle groups related to the muscle group they are making bigger.  For example, when you are doing standing curls, it's not just the biceps that you are working out.
> 
> "Curls primarily train the small (but mostly useless) biceps muscle, and doing too many too often can lead to bad posture and shoulder or elbow injury. "Curls pull your shoulders forward and bend your elbow out," says celebrity trainer Harley Pasternak, whose clients include Robert Downey Jr. and LL Cool J. "If your biceps are stronger than your triceps – which is the larger, stronger, and more important muscle – it will make your arms look shorter and your pecs droopy, and give you gorilla posture."  Source
> 
> Making your Biceps bigger is not the same as making them stronger.  A lot of time strength has more to do with functional strength vs, just bigger muscles.  From the view point of strength you can make you muscles only strong for one type of movement or you can make your muscles functionally strong.  These are things you'll need to keep in mind because if you just make your bicep muscle bigger without consideration of how your body functions and how the muscles pull your structure then you'll end up with some muscle  imbalances that will affect your martial arts and motion in general.


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## Gerry Seymour (Oct 3, 2016)

drop bear said:


> they are too heavy. There is no way you are doing proper bicept curls with 10kg.
> 
> And that will be why your shoulders are sore.


That would be what, about 24 lbs? That doesn't seem so heavy - I do that much even now, after my injuries. Have I been doing these things wrong all along? (An actual possibility, so I ask.)


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## drop bear (Oct 3, 2016)

gpseymour said:


> That would be what, about 24 lbs? That doesn't seem so heavy - I do that much even now, after my injuries. Have I been doing these things wrong all along? (An actual possibility, so I ask.)



not sure. But we are comparing a grown man who has done akido for most of his life vs a fairly skinny kid.

In theory you should have arms like a brickies labourer.


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## Gerry Seymour (Oct 3, 2016)

drop bear said:


> not sure. But we are comparing a grown man who has done akido for most of his life vs a fairly skinny kid.
> 
> In theory you should have arms like a brickies labourer.


I wish.


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## JowGaWolf (Oct 3, 2016)

gpseymour said:


> That would be what, about 24 lbs? That doesn't seem so heavy - I do that much even now, after my injuries. Have I been doing these things wrong all along? (An actual possibility, so I ask.)


20lbs isn't heavy. But then I read drop bear's post below and was reminded that there's a lot of strength building exercises that are done in kung fu.  I'm not sure what we do that works out our biceps muscles unless it's when we practice catching kicks and when we do conditioning for staff training (just using the weight of the staff to build muscles.) or it could be the 1.5 pound iron rings that I use doing forms.  I guess that stuff is enough to build significant amount of strength.



drop bear said:


> But we are comparing a grown man who has done akido for most of his life vs a fairly skinny kid.


One of the things that I often forget that I'm stronger than what I feel that I am in comparison to people who don't do martial arts.  I literally have to remind myself to be careful not to hurt people because my forearms are hard, but I rarely think about my strength that way.  I probably need to re-evaluate my strength so I can have understanding of where I actually stand in terms of strength.


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## JowGaWolf (Oct 3, 2016)

drop bear said:


> not sure. But we are comparing a grown man who has done akido for most of his life vs a fairly skinny kid.
> 
> In theory you should have arms like a brickies labourer.


I'll pass.  I like the way neck back and neck function.  I'll just have to make more than one trip. lol


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## Flatfish (Oct 4, 2016)

drop bear said:


>




I call BS on that. Proper curls need to be done in the squat rack.....


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## JowGaWolf (Oct 4, 2016)

I just knocked off the cobwebs from a 30lb dumbbell that I haven't worked out with in about 20 years.  I was expecting for it to be heavy but it wasn't.  Things that noticed right away is that I didn't have the weak grip / finger feeling that I had in my 20's when trying to old on.  I was expecting to feel that but my grip strength is stronger and my fingers and my hands didn't have any problem to maintain the grip. 

I also noticed that the weight didn't feel heavy when I picked it up. I was expecting to feel weighted down but I didn't.  My guess is that my legs are much stronger and my core is much stronger and that all of my muscles were working together functionally.  In the past when I used to lift weights, there were movements of transitioning that would feel weaker until I could settle into the proper stance for curling standing up. I didn't feel any of that.  I was able to to 5 curls with no problem, I'm sure I could have gotten 10, but my elbows felt uncomfortable when curling.  I'm pretty sure I was using correct technique so I don't think that was the problem.  The area of where the discomfort was is the same area where I damaged my elbows 3 years ago from hyper extended elbows doing Tai Chi.   I don't know if that's a scar tissue issue or what but I definitely need to address that issue.

It wasn't bad for 20 years of not weight lifting.  It definitely felt like I'm stronger now with curling a 30lbs dumbbell.


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