# Square Dancing?!



## Josh Oakley (Sep 7, 2008)

So I'm doing paperwork for my dojo and one of my prospective students walks in and invites me to a square dancing demonstration happening three doors down from my dojo. I decide to show support for them and go to watch. I never thought too much of square dancing, but then again, I'd never seen it. I was amazed. 

What I saw was a group of eight people doing a series of uncoreographed moves with amazing intricacy. it totally shattered my preconceptions of square-dancing as a backwater yokel dance. 

Then my prospective students called me up. Now I didn't know any of the moves and was partly baffled by what I was seeing, but I'm also not one to back down from a challenge. Ever. So I got up there. I was for the most part pulled or pushed to where I needed to go but it was an invigorating experience in controlled chaos.

Then I sat down and thought, "Wow, that would be great training for self defense!" I know. Square dancing for self defense??? It seems odd. But it is really good training for defense against multiple opponents, riots, or barfights. It would be good for developing situational awareness, logic/analysis skills, trains you to keep moving, and trains your instinct response. 

Go fig.

I'm not a square dancer, though, so I'm not sure. Are there any square-dancer/ martial artists out there? If so, would you say it complements your training?


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## tshadowchaser (Sep 7, 2008)

While I have not done square dancing for many years now I remember it as being an invigorating event.  The fact that you are constantly moving and changing partners dose help your perception of where you need to be and who is around you.  If you try it with your class let us know how they receive it and if they fell it helps with perception


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## sgtmac_46 (Sep 7, 2008)

Any activity that improves coordination, conditioning and awareness is beneficial to self-defense.....but don't fall in to the trap of thinking that necessarily means it's a valuable use of limited training time.


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## EternalAspirer (Sep 8, 2008)

It would probably be useful the way any open area, large group, situational awareness training would be. There's constant activity among a large number of people, and that's good, but don't use square dancing to exclusion of any other type of similar training. There are many possibilities for this type of thing, as sgtmac said, since you have a very limited amount of time, choose carefully. Don't let something new and exciting distract you.
That being said, maybe you could look into square dancing as a new hobby!


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## Josh Oakley (Sep 8, 2008)

I have no plan on taking it up as a hobby, I don't have time. I DO plan on studying it a bit, and seeing if I can come up with some decent drills based on it. I DO NOT plan on having actual square dancing in the dojo. I DO NOT plan on using anything exclusively (when your only tool is a hammer....).

I DO think there is a benefit to be found.


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## Hawke (Sep 8, 2008)

Ballet, jazz, and ballroom can also be an intense workout.

An interesting exercise I did years ago was in an Aikido class where we had to move among a mass of people.  I still do this for fun and sometimes not even aware I am doing it.


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## Xue Sheng (Sep 8, 2008)

Martial Arts Square dancing....

Swing your partner through the air slam them down and leave them there

Grab your partner dosy doe, take you foot and smash their toe.

Allemande left allemande right turn around and start a fight.

OK the forced me to take square dancing in high school so I have had a LOT of time to think about this


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## Catalyst (Sep 9, 2008)

Xue Sheng said:


> Grab your partner dosy doe


 
Since we're talking MA wouldn't it be "dosydo" (kind of like Judo, Hapkido, etc.). I'm kidding, I'm kidding


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## shihansmurf (Sep 9, 2008)

I can tango, and I learned a great deal about reading tactile clues.You can feel your partner shift and learn to respond to sublte movements as aform of communication. This helped me improve my trapping skills quite a bit.

It also impresses women, so thats always a plus.

Mark


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## theletch1 (Sep 9, 2008)

One of my younger students is also a dance student.  She moves very gracefully and seems much more aware of what her body is capable of doing than others her age.


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## Xue Sheng (Sep 9, 2008)

theletch1 said:


> One of my younger students is also a dance student. She moves very gracefully and seems much more aware of what her body is capable of doing than others her age.


 
A few years back before I was married I was dating a woman that was quite good at Changquan and she was a beginner at it. I found out she was a trained Ballet dancer.


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## still learning (Sep 9, 2008)

Hello, For those who do not get a full workout...the sweats and more?

Will find any type of dancing or excerise that achive those goals will always improve themselves.

The number one goal for every martial artist's?   ....is physcial fitness FIRST.....SECOND...THAN ....LEARNING the skills of punching...kicking and everything else.

Phycial fitness is the key to martial artist success's...to survivie on the streets ...running or fighting back.

Aloha,


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## MBuzzy (Sep 9, 2008)

Ok.....so this isn't the first time I've heard of this.  I actually saw/participated (kind of) in a self defense drill based on Square Dancing.  We had about 10 people standing in a circle.  Unfortunately, I don't know enough about square dancing or dancing in general to know what was going on, but basically every other person went a different direction, and this is supposed to be done with arms intertwined, and passing from person to person.

The drill was that while doing this, each person was to perform some joint lock or self defense technique on each person, but only had the amount of time that it took to get to the next person.....so basically every person to trying to perform a technique and have a technique performed on them at the same time....kind of an offense defense drill.  

I know that this description sucks, but it looked cool in person.  Until we figured out that none of us were coordinated enough to keep it up for more than a few seconds.  The instructor was good at it though!


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## Franc0 (Sep 10, 2008)

Both self defence and fighting (yes there is a difference) can always be viewed as akin to dancing. If you react too slow or too fast, you either get hit, or you trip and/or get your toes stepped on. I often tell my guys that timing, which is essential to dancing is an often neglected training ingredient, which is just as important as relaxation, power, speed & good form. A favorite analogy that I like to use is that a fight starts out as a waltz, then ends up like a mosh pit slam dance in a matter of seconds.

Franco


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## MA-Caver (Sep 10, 2008)

Josh Oakley said:


> Then I sat down and thought, "Wow, that would be great training for self defense!" I know. Square dancing for self defense??? It seems odd. But it is really good training for defense against multiple opponents, riots, or barfights. It would be good for developing situational awareness, logic/analysis skills, trains you to keep moving, and trains your instinct response.


I'm glad that you as an instructor just found yet another avenue which to teach your students. 

As far as using "dance" that's nothing new actually, any type of dance. It's how Woo Ping Yuen is able to choreograph a lot of those great Martial Arts fights between two or more actors. 
Chinese opera benefited from the Shaolin Martial Arts techniques to make their shows more exciting and Martial Arts in general benefited from the choreography of the stage opera. 

Still you may come up with some really good new techniques if not for your art, then in the way it's taught. Particularly for the younger set who needs it fresh and fun to keep it interesting.


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## Josh Oakley (Sep 10, 2008)

It helps that I actually used to be a ballroom dancer and even performed it. I KNOW that dancing and martial arts are complimentary. I just never threw in square dancing into that lot before because I had some negative preconceptions about square-dancing.


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## MA-Caver (Sep 10, 2008)

Josh Oakley said:


> It helps that I actually used to be a ballroom dancer and even performed it. I KNOW that dancing and martial arts are complimentary. I just never threw in square dancing into that lot before because I had some negative preconceptions about square-dancing.


Yeah it's hard to conceive a bunch of hillbilly rednecks actually doing something that requires thought... :lol: It was basically their idea of "Rocking Through the Night". Still is in some circles. (get it circles? get it? huh? )


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## Xue Sheng (Sep 10, 2008)

MA-Caver said:


> (get it circles? get it? huh? )


 
Swing your partner *round* and *round* kick em the knee and knock him down


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## Josh Oakley (Sep 10, 2008)

MA-Caver said:


> Yeah it's hard to conceive a bunch of hillbilly rednecks actually doing something that requires thought... :lol: It was basically their idea of "Rocking Through the Night". Still is in some circles. (get it circles? get it? huh? )


 
Well, If there's one thing I love, it's discovering new information and shattering my own preconceptions.


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## MA-Caver (Sep 10, 2008)

Josh Oakley said:


> Well, If there's one thing I love, it's discovering new information and shattering my own preconceptions.


Yep, me too.


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## jarrod (Sep 14, 2008)

we were forced to square dance in grade school music class.  i guess it was a western kansas thing.

as for dance as a form of self-defense training, anyone a fan of moshing?  anyone?

jf


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## tahuti (Sep 14, 2008)

This reminded me of Apache dance, based on _Les Apaches_, Parisian underworld in late 1800s to early 1900s. They also created Apache revolver, had various techniques for group stalking, etc.

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## jarrod (Sep 14, 2008)

should i be concerned that i found myself really aroused by that?

jf


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## tko4u (Sep 20, 2008)

Never seen it, but when I saw it on t.v., it looks hard! Then again, my rhythm isnt the greatest


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## sgtmac_46 (Sep 23, 2008)

jarrod said:


> we were forced to square dance in grade school music class.  i guess it was a western kansas thing.
> 
> as for dance as a form of self-defense training, anyone a fan of moshing?  anyone?
> 
> jf


 Moshing is probably more applicable to SD and fighting than square dancing.  Square dancing is still choreographed, while moshing is chaotic.


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