# Good starter rifle?



## Almost (Dec 1, 2008)

I'm looking to get into shooting both rifles and hand guns but since i'm 18 rifles are what I have to start out with. I was wondering what would be a good rifle to buy to start off with to help me learn a bit more about the workings of gun? I want to start a collection of weapons and it is my goal/dream to own a very nice custom AR that I have built myself. However because I know so little about the workings of guns a lot of the upgrades that I have looked at for ARs look really cool but i don't know how they fit in with the weapon or what they really do. I don't even have the rail system fully comprehended.  Do you have any suggestions as to a good rifle that could help teach me? I have only shot an old wooden stock .22, nothing fancy. 

Also are there permits required for more powerful weapons like ARs  and AKs and so on?


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## Deaf Smith (Dec 1, 2008)

Ruger 10/22 rifle. 10 shot simi-auto that is a dandy. I've owned many a .22 and the Ruger is the most rugged and reliable of the bunch.

I saw one at a pawn shop, 16 inch barrel with 'fire sights', for $199. I'd get it but I have a good Ruger already. Hope someone has a fun Christmas present under the tree!

Deaf


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## Carol (Dec 1, 2008)

Before deciding, RUN don't walk, to the nearest NRA safety class and complete their training.  An qualified instructor can help you select your first rifle and may even have a few for you to try....or have resources for you to try them before buying.

Safety and skills are way more important than anything else, and what you can learn can be transferred to any make, model, or caliber.  Good luck and good shooting.  It's an addicting hobby


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## Journeyman (Dec 1, 2008)

Ruger 10/22 is what I suggest, too.  They're inexpensive to buy and shoot.  They work, and there's lots of aftermarket doodads you can add to them.  Sounds like you're more interested in a "tactical" type gun(or at least a "tactical" looking gun) than a hunting rifle, and there are even a few 10/22 stocks(like the one made by Tapco) that will give that appearance.  That combined with one of those curved higher capacity magazines makes the 10/22 look a bit like the bastard child of an AR15 and an AK47.  http://www.sportsmansguide.com/zoom...&ui=3&mz=2&cf=2&nv=3&c=&mode=zoom&adid=359272

No permits required for rifles in Colorado. Just gotta go through the standard background check when you buy one at a store.

The NRA training is a good idea.


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## grydth (Dec 1, 2008)

Add my vote for the 10/22.... started my oldest daughter out with one.


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## KenpoTex (Dec 1, 2008)

I'll jump on the 10/22 bandwagon as well...great rifles (and you can almost buy two of them for what a case of 5.56 costs nowadays... )


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## jks9199 (Dec 1, 2008)

Carol Kaur said:


> Before deciding, RUN don't walk, to the nearest NRA safety class and complete their training.  An qualified instructor can help you select your first rifle and may even have a few for you to try....or have resources for you to try them before buying.
> 
> Safety and skills are way more important than anything else, and what you can learn can be transferred to any make, model, or caliber.  Good luck and good shooting.  It's an addicting hobby


Fantastic advice.

They'll also offer some guidance on a good choice for a first rifle.

.22s are good to learn on, and they're cheap enough to shoot that you'll actually be able to shoot them regularly.  (There are some guns where the rounds cost more than $1.00 a piece...  You won't find yourself shooting those very often, unless someone else is paying for the ammo.)

Why do you want the rifle?  Hunting?  Target shooting?  Self defense?  (To be honest, a rifle isn't an ideal self defense weapon as a general rule.  You can't carry it when you probably need it...)


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## MA-Caver (Dec 1, 2008)

Before you even consider buying a gun... please stop and ask yourself "why do I want one?" & ask "why do I want to learn how to shoot?" 

Is it for hunting? A hobby? For defense? Or all three. I've got nothing against guns and nothing against all three reasons... but they should be the right ones for you. It's serious business and a heavy responsibility owning a gun. Always remember that guns can kill if they're in the *wrong hands*... also remember that in the heat of the moment those "wrong hands" can be yours. The heat of the moment can be a fight, anger, self pity, depression, fear or just plain recklessness. 
Be sure that you know what you're getting into in assuming the responsibility of owning a firearm.

Sorry if I seem lecturing but I've personally seen too many guns in the hands of those who didn't deal with the responsibility very well. It's those idiots that inevitably make gun ownership an increasing difficult thing to bear.    

Which ever one you choose, get the right training with it, memorize the gun safety rules and live/breathe them whenever a firearm is in your hands... and also... have fun.


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## jks9199 (Dec 1, 2008)

MA-Caver said:


> Before you even consider buying a gun... please stop and ask yourself "why do I want one?" & ask "why do I want to learn how to shoot?"
> 
> Is it for hunting? A hobby? For defense? Or all three. I've got nothing against guns and nothing against all three reasons... but they should be the right ones for you. _It's serious business and a heavy responsibility owning a gun. Always remember that guns can kill if they're in the *wrong hands*... also remember that in the heat of the moment those "wrong hands" can be yours. _The heat of the moment can be a fight, anger, self pity, depression, fear or just plain recklessness.
> Be sure that you know what you're getting into in assuming the responsibility of owning a firearm.



Qouted for truth.

Vital point -- and worth repeating.


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## Deaf Smith (Dec 2, 2008)

MA-Caver,

These 'wrong hands' of mine have been messing with those evil guns for over 35 years with no bloodshed. My parents, my cousins, uncles, aunts, etc.. all have those evil guns and still no bloodshed. Over 50 percent of my co-workers have those evil guns and no bloodshed. We even keep them in our cars at work not 20 yards from my office! Done that for over 27 years. Still no bloodshed.

Ever occur to you that it's not the tool, but the person?

Now I presume you being here on this forum you practice martial arts. You know well how to smash a throat or twist a neck, right? Does that make your hands evil? And do you practice with a bo, or staff, or sword, or nachuka, or other such instrument? Can they not kill? Are they evil?

Evil is in the heart of the person. Plenty of people kill, in the heat of an arugment, with lamps, knives, fist, feet, or just about anything they can get a hold of.

It's what's in the persons heart, not what is in their hand that matters.

Teach your children respect for others. Teach them self-respect. Teach them love. Do that and you won't have any problems, guns or no.

Deaf


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## MA-Caver (Dec 2, 2008)

Deaf Smith said:


> MA-Caver,
> 
> These 'wrong hands' of mine have been messing with those evil guns for over 35 years with no bloodshed. My parents, my cousins, uncles, aunts, etc.. all have those evil guns and still no bloodshed. Over 50 percent of my co-workers have those evil guns and no bloodshed. We even keep them in our cars at work not 20 yards from my office! Done that for over 27 years. Still no bloodshed.
> 
> ...



Umm... err... ahh... uhh... I ... I think... I'm not quite sure, but... wellll... you see, umm, that's all what I meant by "in the wrong hands". 


:idunno: Or maybe I'm missing something 

If you gotten drunk and shot someone, if you got angry for no apparent reason and shot someone, if you got careless and shot someone, if you decided to take something by intimidation and force with a gun, OR if you got *really* depressed and shot yourself! (besides the fact that you wouldn't be reading this right now).... the gun is in the wrong hands. 

If you've been wholly responsible throughout your gun ownership... then well... the gun is in the right hands isn't it? :uhyeah:


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## Lisa (Dec 3, 2008)

I think the Ruger is a good idea as well.

However, my first question to you is what do you want it for?  What type of shooting do you want to do?  Are you just going to go down to your local range and plink around or do you have a specific type of shooting you want to do?  What options are there open to you as far as clubs and are you interested in competing?

A Ruger .22 is a great gun, but I wouldn't be using that if you are planning to shoot in long range competitions. 

Around where I live our various rifle associations really encourage new people to come out and try different things and we supply you with instruction and at times the rifle itself so you can try things out and see what interests you.

Check around and see what people have to offer.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Dec 3, 2008)

First always get some professional training. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





However, I would agree with everyone else that a .22 is a perfect
rifle to start with.  There are several brands out there that make 
excellent .22's.  Ruger, Remington, Savage, etc.


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## Frostbite (Dec 3, 2008)

I'm going to go with the Ruger 10/22 as well.  The ammo is cheap, the rifle is pretty accurate, and there's lots of aftermarket parts for it.

I'll also echo what others have said and say get some safety training and practice safe gun handling until it becomes second nature.


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## jarrod (Dec 3, 2008)

hello, am i the one who sees what's wrong here?

most track officials begin the race with a starter _pistol_.  there is no such thing as a starter rifle.

you're welcome.

jf


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## Almost (Dec 3, 2008)

Journeyman said:


> Ruger 10/22 is what I suggest, too.  They're inexpensive to buy and shoot.  They work, and there's lots of aftermarket doodads you can add to them.  Sounds like you're more interested in a "tactical" type gun(or at least a "tactical" looking gun) than a hunting rifle, and there are even a few 10/22 stocks(like the one made by Tapco) that will give that appearance.  That combined with one of those curved higher capacity magazines makes the 10/22 look a bit like the bastard child of an AR15 and an AK47.  http://www.sportsmansguide.com/zoom...&ui=3&mz=2&cf=2&nv=3&c=&mode=zoom&adid=359272
> 
> No permits required for rifles in Colorado. Just gotta go through the standard background check when you buy one at a store.
> 
> The NRA training is a good idea.



You pretty much got it right on. I am interested in the tactical type guns which is kinda why i'm interested in an AR or M-16 like gun but again i just don't know the workings that well so I can't customize it as much as i would like so i kinda want something to start out with so that I can learn the ropes first. The Ruger 10/22 is looking really good especially with those add ons. 

I'm really interested in guns for the hobby aspect. Yea protection from a late night robbery would be helpful but i'm not terribly worried. 

Also gotta stock up for the zombies...   :2pistols: :armed:


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## Deaf Smith (Dec 3, 2008)

MA-Caver,

There are plenty of weapons around if one is prone to 'crimes of passon'. The gun is only one form, one way.

Consider this:

http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm

There is about 301,000,000 people in the U.S. and around 50,000,000 gun owners. There were 16,929 murders in 2007 (all kinds, commision of a robbery, car jacking, arguments, etc... and all kinds of weapons, guns, knives, clubs, etc..)

Now let's say in every murder a gun was used (but we know it wasn't), and every murder was a 'crime of passion' with an 'easly availiable gun' (but we know it wasn't).

And we round it off to 17,000 murders.

All you have to do is take the last 3 zeros off both sides and you have:
301,000  and 17 muders. Or even more... 30,100  and 1.7 murders per year.

Now that means you have basicly 1.7 in 30,100 chance of being in a crime of passion where a gun was used ... per year.

Now you see how rare it really is? Most people don't get that upset nor have such a knockdown-dragout fight they decide to kill the other one right then and there.

So your fears are misplaced. You have far more chance of being killed by other circumstances, like slipping on the floor.

Deaf


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## Blindside (Dec 3, 2008)

Almost said:


> You pretty much got it right on. I am interested in the tactical type guns which is kinda why i'm interested in an AR or M-16 like gun but again i just don't know the workings that well so I can't customize it as much as i would like so i kinda want something to start out with so that I can learn the ropes first. The Ruger 10/22 is looking really good especially with those add ons.
> 
> I'm really interested in guns for the hobby aspect. Yea protection from a late night robbery would be helpful but i'm not terribly worried.
> 
> Also gotta stock up for the zombies...   :2pistols: :armed:


I learned on a bolt action 22 rifle, and it will be what I start my son on when he gets old enough.  

I'll recommend the 10/22 as well, and if you really have your heart set on getting an AR later you could outfit it with these iron sights: 
http://www.tech-sights.com/ruger3.htm

And it would give you the same sight picture as an AR.  Also, the .22 is way way cheaper a practice round than 5.56.

If you are interested in building an AR, you can do it from scratch if you are even moderately handy.  I'd recommend starting with a basic kit and improve from there, IMO most of the tactical thingamagigs that people hang off the AR are a bit of overkill.


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## MA-Caver (Dec 3, 2008)

Deaf Smith said:


> MA-Caver,
> 
> There are plenty of weapons around if one is prone to 'crimes of passon'. The gun is only one form, one way.
> 
> ...


Well since you put it that way.... :lol: 

As one who has stared *into* the barrel of a loaded .45 held by a very irate drug-dealer while I was delivering pizza to the stoner who order it without the dealer's knowledge... and stared down several other types of calibers and been shot at by a few more... whell... I guess you can say I'm a bit biased. 
But then having also been stabbed, twice, sliced deeply once, been cracked over the center line of my skull by a 1 inch diameter wooden curtain rod (broke that sucka too)... and a host of other near attempts on my life... well they weren't near... they were actual but failed attempts...(there that's better).... 
All I can (still say) is guns don't belong in the wrong hands. 
Now for your benefit I'll add , Knives, swords, automobiles, wooden curtain rods, hammers and a host of ANYTHING else that is capable of killing a human being by another human being without the use of their bare hands (ok and feet -- for the tkd-ers here on MT :wink1: ) don't belong in the wrong hands. 

We're talking *specifically* about guns here, now aren't we... we can jump and create another topic/thread I think... 


:asian:


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## cdunn (Dec 3, 2008)

Ditto learning on the bolt action .22LR. It was on a bunch of old rifles that came out of the civilian marksmanship program, I think Remingtons of some sort. 

Until you've ingrained safety habits, I can see a single-shot (or at least manually loading) rifle being a wise decision.


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## Deaf Smith (Dec 3, 2008)

Well MA-Caver, England has banned knives and clubs, and guns, but bummer, they still fall into the wrong hands. What we hope is they also fall into the right hands.

I've lived 54 years. Never stared down a .45, nor been stabbed, shot, clubbed, and other clamities. I don't know where you live but it seems to be a rough place. Where I live, even awash with guns, seems to not be as violent a place. I suspect that has more to do with it than if guns are in wrong hands.

Honesty, how can you prevent them from being in the wrong hands and still keep them in the right hands? Mexico has many a stringent gun law (as does India) but violence, especially with firearms, is very prevailiant there.

I feel one cannot keep guns out of the 'wrong hands', period. All it does is take them out of the 'right hands'. 

And as has been said, The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.  Edmund Burke (1729-1797).

And if good men have no arms, they can do nothing.

Deaf


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