# Mantis Taiji



## kelcca (Apr 20, 2003)

How can you tell if a teacher is qualified to teach or not. My past has been in karate/mma, I am interested in Taiji Mantis school in Yellowknife Canada where I will be moven soon, what do I look for in  a taiji teacher??Thanks, Frank.


----------



## Taiji fan (Apr 21, 2003)

That is a tricky one Frank.  Qualifictions are not generally standard in Taiji, nor is a belt system, infact you could just set up a taiji school after learning a form from a video ( in theory and I have seen it happen too.)  It is usful to do some reading up on taiji first to be able to arm yourself with some ideas and questions before visiting a school.  Find out what style they are teaching....and look up its background, does the teacher have a lineage to the founders, how long have they been training, how long have they been teaching?  What is their emphasis...do they teach all aspects of the art or do they focus on the 'health exercise' aspect.  Although to be honest I know of people who have been teaching 30 years and are pretty low in knowledge and equally I have seen people who have trained less than 10 years have a better understanding of the art so it is a mine field.  Have a look at the students, with your previous martial arts training you will know if they are in good stances or not and also when they go through their form as a group, how syncronised are they...do they look like they have been studying the same thing or are they all doing somthing different?   How does the teacher conduct the class, does he/she make corrections to stances and cover the 'basics' or do they just expect students to follow on without much actual instruction.  Do they over emphasis the use of Qi in explanations, do they talk about, demonstrate body structure and corrct practice etc etc.
I am afraid I have never heard of Taiji Mantis...is that the school name? do you have an website for them?


----------



## yilisifu (Apr 22, 2003)

I htink I may have heard of it eons ago....Kam Yuen, a mantis teacher from Los Angeles put it together, I think - back in the late 60's or early 70's.......


----------



## arnisador (Sep 11, 2003)

Thread moved.

-Arnisador
-MT Admin-


----------



## Randy Strausbaugh (Sep 27, 2003)

T'ai Chi Mantis (more popularly called T'ai Mantis or just Tai Mantis) is not a style of Taijiquan, but rather a style of Preying Mantis gongfu.  The name comes from the Taiji symbol (yin-yang) which the art's founder discovered on the back of a preying mantis which he had captured.  Or so the story goes.


----------



## 7starmantis (Oct 1, 2003)

Yeah, but I've never really heard it just called tai mantis. I would deffinatly look at the instructors leneage. Ask many questions, if he cant answer them, move on. If you know the instructors name, I may be able to offer some knowledge on his credaibilty, as I know many mantis practitioners around the globe.

7sm


----------



## Randy Strausbaugh (Oct 2, 2003)

> _Originally posted by 7starmantis _
> *Yeah, but I've never really heard it just called tai mantis. *



It is here , here , and here , among other places.  :asian:


----------



## 7starmantis (Oct 2, 2003)

I meant I've never heard of the actually system called Tai Mantis. Those places are called tai mantis but teach either shaolin, 7 star, tc mantis, or some derivative of kung fu. 
I meant I've never heard of a system of kung fu called tai mantis. But then there are probably many "systems" out there that I haven't heard of.
7sm


----------



## Randy Strausbaugh (Apr 24, 2004)

There's an article on Tai Mantis in the latest Black Belt.  The instructor profiled is Rob Moses, a student of Kam Yuen.  There's also a short mantis history sidebar included in the article.


----------



## 7starmantis (May 21, 2004)

Randy Strausbaugh said:
			
		

> There's an article on Tai Mantis in the latest Black Belt. The instructor profiled is Rob Moses, a student of Kam Yuen. There's also a short mantis history sidebar included in the article.


[font=Arial, Helvetica, Univers, 'Zurich BT', sans-serif]*Tai Shan Mantis* was developed and founded by Sifu Rob Moses, who is certified in Northern Shaolin/Tai Chi Praying Mantis. Tai Shan Mantis is a complete martial fitness system which incorporates both traditional and neo-classical Kung Fu. Its purpose is to illuminate living concepts, such as the 9 Psalms Praying Mantis system, also created by Sifu Rob, and written about extensively in Black Belt Magazine.  [/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, Univers, 'Zurich BT', sans-serif]              -from http://www.unitedmartialartists.org/vendrell/index.html    Rob Moses' website. [/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, Univers, 'Zurich BT', sans-serif][/font] 
[font=Arial, Helvetica, Univers, 'Zurich BT', sans-serif]I understand what your talking about, but I'm just simply saying the system is usually refered to as tai chi mantis or tai ___ mantis not simply tai mantis. Lets not argue over something this ridiculous however.[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, Univers, 'Zurich BT', sans-serif][/font] 
[font=Arial, Helvetica, Univers, 'Zurich BT', sans-serif]7sm[/font]


----------



## Randy Strausbaugh (May 23, 2004)

7starmantis said:
			
		

> [font=Arial, Helvetica, Univers, 'Zurich BT', sans-serif]*Tai Shan Mantis* was developed and founded by Sifu Rob Moses, who is certified in Northern Shaolin/Tai Chi Praying Mantis. Tai Shan Mantis is a complete martial fitness system which incorporates both traditional and neo-classical Kung Fu. Its purpose is to illuminate living concepts, such as the 9 Psalms Praying Mantis system, also created by Sifu Rob, and written about extensively in Black Belt Magazine.  [/font]
> [font=Arial, Helvetica, Univers, 'Zurich BT', sans-serif]              -from http://www.unitedmartialartists.org/vendrell/index.html    Rob Moses' website. [/font]
> [font=Arial, Helvetica, Univers, 'Zurich BT', sans-serif][/font]
> [font=Arial, Helvetica, Univers, 'Zurich BT', sans-serif]I understand what your talking about, but I'm just simply saying the system is usually refered to as tai chi mantis or tai ___ mantis not simply tai mantis. Lets not argue over something this ridiculous however.[/font]
> ...


Agreed, but I didn't post on the article to argue, I just thought people interested in the subject might want to read it.  Sorry I was unclear.


----------



## 7starmantis (May 23, 2004)

No Problem.  :asian: 

7sm


----------



## aNadia (Jul 15, 2004)

Teehee, that's my sifu, rob moses. yay!


----------



## chee (Jul 17, 2004)

Sifu Rob Moses is one of the founders of Tai Mantis. He is one of the finest Martial Artist (along with Grandmaster Michael Vendrell: Yee Chuan Tao) I've ever known and seen. He does Fu like liquid, flowing grace, a martial _artist_ in every sense of the word. He is well-known and respected in the Martial Arts world. He is the current guest writer for the David Carradine's monthly column in newest issue of Black Belt Magazine. So far, Black Belt Magazine has had two 3-5 page spread article on him and his Tai Mantis style.

I am truly honored to know him and to be one of his student. 


Regards,

Chee
Hawaii 

- Those united in purpose will be victorious -​Sun Tsu _The Art of War_​


----------



## chee (Jul 17, 2004)

Correction: (It was late when I posted last) Sifu Rob Moses created 9 Palm Mantis (also referred as Nine Psalms Mantis). That is the feature published by Black Belt Magazine. His style is also called Tai Shan Mantis (named after Tai Shan (mountain) in China).


----------



## Thundering Mantis (Jul 21, 2004)

Hi everyone,

  Frank, I am somewhat familiar with the school in question, indeed it is not a Tai Chi school yet a kung fu school that teaches a branch of Shaolin Mantis called Taiji Praying Mantis Kung Fu, if you're only interested in Tai Chi, it is possible that the instructor of this school could know (just speculating) the Yang Style Tai Chi short form or long... 

  I think that we all would agree that frank should talk to the sifu of the school to find out all the answers he needs   especially since he's moving to a region that is really close to Alaska!

  I am learning Taiji Preying Mantis in Toronto, our school is affiliated with the one in Yellowknife,  through the U.S. Chiu Chuk Kai Tai Chi Praying Mantis Federation, the website of this association is currently under construction, the old website had this school listed, plus photos of the class and their sifu.  Do a websearch on the federation and you'll find other sifu's websites come up on your browser.  I would definitely check out the school in Yellowknife, as it is a bona fide martial system, however I have never met any of the students or their Sifu so I can't vouch for them entirely but I do know that the standard of quality amongst those who have completed any traditional mantis system is always kept at a high bar.



			
				Randy Strausbaugh said:
			
		

> T'ai Chi Mantis (more popularly called T'ai Mantis or just Tai Mantis) is not a style of Taijiquan, but rather a style of Preying Mantis gongfu. The name comes from the Taiji symbol (yin-yang) which the art's founder discovered on the back of a preying mantis which he had captured. Or so the story goes.


  That is how one of the stories goes, what must be clarified here is that what differentiates the Taiji mantis system from others is its focus on principles found in Taijiquan.



			
				yilisifu said:
			
		

> I htink I may have heard of it eons ago....Kam Yuen, a mantis teacher from Los Angeles put it together, I think - back in the late 60's or early 70's.......


  that's right, way back then,  Dr. Kam Yuen, with the permission of his Sifu, Grandmaster Chiu Chuk Kai, established the first Taiji Praying Mantis school in North America, I believe it was called Shaolin West  Healing and Martial arts Centre. Sifu Rob Moses was amongst his first group of students to  complete  the system. 



			
				Randy Strausbaugh said:
			
		

> There's an article on Tai Mantis in the latest Black Belt. The instructor profiled is Rob Moses, a student of Kam Yuen. There's also a short mantis history sidebar included in the article.


 That's Tai Shan Mantis, a system in which he teaches traditional Taiji praying mantis along with his own 9-Psalms  Kung  Fu (you can read more on 9 Psalms in the Black Belt Mag. Archives)  I have met Sifu Rob Moses, he's my Sigung, and even though what he's teaching today is called Tai Shan Mantis, he's still a Taiji Praying Mantis Sifu (check link to lineage below)



			
				7starmantis said:
			
		

> I meant I've never heard of the actually system called Tai Mantis. Those places are called tai mantis but teach either shaolin, 7 star, tc mantis, or some derivative of kung fu.
> I meant I've never heard of a system of kung fu called tai mantis. But then there are probably many "systems" out there that I haven't heard of.
> 7sm


  I know what you're talking about here, I too have seen websites of people who teach "Tai Mantis" but it's usually 7star mantis or another form of mantis taught along with tai chi chuan, but to make things clear....

  Tai Mantis Kung fu is an abbreviation that we (we being official taiji mantis lineage guys) use as a short form for Tai Chi Mantis - tai mantis- rolls nicely off the tongue.  

  The U.S. Chiu Chuk Kai Tai Chi Praying Mantis Federation used to be called the Tai Mantis Association, but I guess after 30 years or so this new name (i think the name was changed only recently - 5 years ago?) is more definitive, as it makes it clear that the members of the federation 
  come from a certain recognized lineage.  

http://www.geocities.com/mantiscave/taiji.htm

  that's the descendancy chart for the taiji (tai mantis) school of mantis, descending from Wong Long.  look for Zhao Zhu Xi, (another way to spell Chiu Chuk Kai) in the number 8 column under 7 Ren Feng Rui.


  Frank, i wish you all the best in your search..

  selim


  P.S. Greetings and regards to  Chee, aNadia, 7sm...  I hope to meet you all in person some day.  peace.


----------



## Randy Strausbaugh (Jul 22, 2004)

Thundering Mantis said:
			
		

> Tai Mantis Kung fu is an abbreviation that we (we being official taiji mantis lineage guys) use as a short form for Tai Chi Mantis - tai mantis- rolls nicely off the tongue.


Thank you for clearing that up.


----------



## 7starmantis (Jul 22, 2004)

Thundering Mantis said:
			
		

> Tai Mantis Kung fu is an abbreviation that we (we being official taiji mantis lineage guys) use as a short form for Tai Chi Mantis - tai mantis- rolls nicely off the tongue.


Exactly, well said, that is what I was trying to get at. 



			
				Thundering Mantis said:
			
		

> that's the descendancy chart for the taiji (tai mantis) school of mantis, descending from Wong Long.


This confused me, are you saying there is anyone else besides Wong Long that a mantis system could be linked back to in lineage?

7sm


----------



## Thundering Mantis (Jul 22, 2004)

I see where I wasn't too clear with my choice (or lack of) words...
 it's the descendancy chart for the taiji branch of mantis, it's another school that shares it's descendancy directly from wong long.  As far as I know, I think  all mantis schools should be able to draw their lineage back to Wong Long?



_selim



_


----------



## 7starmantis (Jul 22, 2004)

Yeah, thats what I was thinking too.

 7sm


----------

