# Fists in Karate-Do Kyohan and Nyumon.



## arnisador (Apr 13, 2002)

In these texts the fist is tilted slightly upwards in the final position of the punch--the wrist is bent, not straight. Does anyone still do this? What is the reason for it?

Both also teach that the index finger should be straight in the fist, as the DKI Ryukyu Kempo still does.


----------



## Shinzu (Apr 13, 2002)

after reading your post i took a look at karate-do nyumon and i see what you are talking about.  i do not know the reason why anyone would practice this kind of punch unless they intended to hit with the finger joints instead of the knuckles.

much damage could be done to your wrist if a punch is delivered in this manner so i think most artists would avoid this technique.


----------



## RyuShiKan (Jun 25, 2002)

> _Originally posted by arnisador _
> 
> *In these texts the fist is tilted slightly upwards in the final position of the punch--the wrist is bent, not straight. Does anyone still do this? What is the reason for it? *



The book you mentioned was published by the group that trains near Tamachi Station in Tokyo.
I went to their dojo when I first arrived in Japan and asked them the same question.
They said it was bent to extend their reach and they also strike with the 2nd joint from the tip of your fingers.  I also think it is crap since it puts the wrist in a position of absolutely no strength and can easily sprain your wrist.
Their reason for doing this they said was because the weren't hitting hard objects like boards they needn't use the normal knuckle punch.

I didn't much care for the attitude of that dojo and thought their ideas on defense were a joke. (too much to explain here, suffice it to say they would be laughed off this BB if they posted here)


----------



## arnisador (Jun 25, 2002)

> _Originally posted by RyuShiKan _
> 
> *They said it was bent to extend their reach and they also strike with the 2nd joint from the tip of your fingers. *



Aha! I would not like to punch like this but at least now I understand the pictures. Thanks!


----------



## RyuShiKan (Jun 25, 2002)

I wouldn't either. The basic body mechanics tell you there is something REALLY wrong with it.
However, the Shotokan guys at that dojo swear by it.  
Did you notice their stances in the book by the way...................just a little to deep don't ya think?


----------



## shape_square (Aug 25, 2002)

I trained in karate for three months and lost all dexterity in my hands due to poor teacher.

Shape Square grip destroyer gave me back that all important abiliity to hold a pen or wipe my *** unassisted.

*YOU BUY NOW IT HELP GRIP!:soapbox:*


----------



## arnisador (Aug 25, 2002)

Threads merged for convenience.

-Arnisador
-MT Mod-


----------



## chufeng (Aug 25, 2002)

RyuShiKan,

Correct me if I'm wrong...I don't have much training in Karate...my discipline is Chinese...

I thought the idea in a fight is to close with the attacker...if you do that, you don't need the "extra inch" to hit him.

:asian:
chufeng


----------



## RyuShiKan (Sep 5, 2002)

> _Originally posted by chufeng _
> 
> *RyuShiKan,
> 
> ...




In most cases I would say yes, unless the other person has the advantage of reach and it is difficult to close in.
However, the poses in the book are ludicrous. They lack any for thought or consideration for real fighting technique.


----------



## Mike Clarke (Oct 17, 2002)

I believe the shoto-kai people also use this punching method?
I had a few yudansha from that system come to my dojo in England many years ago and I asked them why they make their fist this way?
They said that the energy in their punch (coming out of a smaller point of contact than with a normal punch), puts more shock (and so power) into the person they hit.
(Ehmmm?)
"Okay, can you please show me on the makiwara. and don't worry if you smash it, I won't mind."

Guess what? They didn't believe in hitting inanimate objects!

I guess like most other things, your karate is what you make it.

Mike.


----------



## RyuShiKan (Oct 19, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Mike Clarke _
> 
> *I believe the shoto-kai people also use this punching method?
> I had a few yudansha from that system come to my dojo in England many years ago and I asked them why they make their fist this way?
> ...




I got the same wonderful insight from the people that posed for the photos in the Nyumon book.
They weren't to eager to give me a demo either. 
Too bad if your wrist is in a weak postion, like the way they punch, you will have nothing in your punch this is if your wrist doesn't snap off.


----------



## Kong (Oct 30, 2002)

I`ve seen a similar use of the fist in some Chinese systems. I always thought it was for hitting soft spots on the body or pressure points. 
On a side note, wasn`t it common in traditional Karate to fold the fist with only the first three fingers folded completely, leaving the index fingers` last joint straight? Supposedly to create more focus on the striking surface of the fist. I read an article about it at fightingarts.com, yes here it is:  http://www.fightingarts.com/reading/article.php?id=215
Very interesting,,,


----------



## RyuShiKan (Oct 30, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Kong _
> 
> *............On a side note, wasn`t it common in traditional Karate to fold the fist with only the first three fingers folded completely, leaving the index fingers` last joint straight? Supposedly to create more focus on the striking surface of the fist. I read an article about it at fightingarts.com, yes here it is:  http://www.fightingarts.com/reading/article.php?id=215
> Very interesting,,, *




This method of making a fist is/was used in order to use the larger muscles group on the bottom of the forearm (the side you little finger is on). This fist method is/was believed to be stronger since you are using the larger muscle group and the smaller muscles on the top (thumb side of the arm) are more relaxed and not opposing the muscles on the bottom......tightening both the top and bottom actually makes your wrist weaker and punch slower when delivering a punch. The point of contact is still the same but your likelihood of accidentally bending your wrist is greatly decreased.

We use a somewhat similar punch but with out the finger protruding but it is still relaxed to some degree. Punching in this way seems to make the fist, wrist and forearm punch in a more natural and stornger way.


----------



## RyuShiKan (Oct 30, 2002)

Don't know why it double posted


----------

