# A Dangerous Seed Sprouting in British Politics



## Sukerkin (May 13, 2009)

It is with persuasive use of icons and touchstones of our culture such as this that the BNP is gaining a dangerous currency in the political sphere:

http://tv.bnp.org.uk/2009/03/why-si...jected-by-todays-politically-correct-parties/

If you have a look through some of the available videos et al on the BNP site you will see that they hit all the right notes to harmonise with the fears and common opinions of ordinary people (I don't exclude myself from this). Clips like this one are a million miles away from the Great Game and bring politics into the tangible realm for most people:

http://tv.bnp.org.uk/2009/04/bnp-making-a-difference-in-stoke/ (by the way, I worked on the archaeological dig from this place and lived just down the road from the estate which was locally termed "Scabby Abbey")

http://tv.bnp.org.uk/2009/04/the-betrayal-of-our-soldiers/

Misuse and mistreatment of our troops, overly open borders, too many 'foreigners' already here, too much taxation, overtly corrupt politicians, the EU's drain on our coffers whilst giving nothing back, lack of good jobs (subtext: "for British people"), the corrosion of our culture and so on.

An impressive list and the scary thing is that I can agree with almost everything they say ... on the surface. 

Altho' they disarmingly use ordinary people rather than skilled orators to put the message across, there is much mileage made in the 'political' trick of the presentation of half the truth or just using the parts of same that support their message.

So you find yourself in agreement with what they say, especially if you don't know enough about politics and history to realise what they are not saying. For you see, this party is the British embodiment of the movement that occurred in a certain other European country in the 1930's - that didn't turn out so well, as I recall.

That is why they are 'dangerous'. Not for what they claim to represent but for the beginning of a road they could lead us down. A frightening thing to feel in myself is that, even knowing where such a path could lead, I still find myself wondering if that would be such a bad thing? After all, I'm English, from a family incredibly well rooted in English soil and patriotic as they come - surely they'd never turn their sights on such as me ... would they?

As most of the people who post here are American, I wonder what your opinions are of what the BNP 'platform' purports to be?


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## Sukerkin (May 13, 2009)

I just found this clip whilst browsing about trying to learn some more:





 
Very hard to disagree with cogent passion like that.  But you have to think what is tucked behind the truth being spoken.  Not necessarily in the mind of the speaker there, who seems very genuine to me (and, again, whose 'heart' I actually agree with)  but in the minds of those that are organising the political movement.


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## chav buster (May 13, 2009)

i would say the rise of the bnp is largely a back lash due to the libral facist politics that runs through modern british politics. i dont really agree with the bnp but people are concerned with the way things are going on issues such as imigration, positive disgrimination ect and the bnp seems to be the only party willing do answer these issues but yes its a very worrying!


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## Tez3 (May 13, 2009)

chav buster said:


> i would say the rise of the bnp is largely a back lash due to the libral facist politics that runs through modern british politics. i dont really agree with the bnp but people are concerned with the way things are going on issues such as imigration, positive disgrimination ect and the bnp seems to be the only party willing do answer these issues but yes its a very worrying!


 
Liberal fascist politics? what on earth are you talking about? Liberals in the UK are nothing like the liberals you have in the States and the fascists are the BNP.
The BNP are the British Nazi Party for crying out loud, they are not the only party to worry about immigration which is actually blown up out of proportion anyway. The BNP are Holocaust deniers and are known rascists.


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## Empty Hands (May 13, 2009)

I'll give them credit, the neo-fascist political groups have evolved a lot.  They have developed new media skills, image control, and other hallmarks of modern politicking.  I guess it was inevitable.  Even David Duke tries to sound moderate these days.

In a way, the development of such strategies shows how out of touch the values of groups like the BNP are with wider society.  When you have to hide the essential truth of what you are in order to gain popularity, then the people aren't really with your essential identity.  See also the Republican two-step on gay issues.  I take this as a heartening sign.



Sukerkin said:


> After all, I'm English, from a family incredibly well rooted in English soil and patriotic as they come - surely they'd never turn their sights on such as me ... would they?



I don't think you really believe that.  Assuming the BNP or someone like them fully implemented their vision, any dissenters from the True Faith would be punished - no matter what their pedigree.  Like if say a certain well-educated Economist disagreed with the farcical economic posturings of the powers-that-be.


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## Empty Hands (May 13, 2009)

Tez3 said:


> Liberal fascist politics? what on earth are you talking about?



Buzzwords rule.  "Liberals" are bad.  "Fascist" is bad.  Put them both together - extra bad!


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## Ken Morgan (May 13, 2009)

Parties like these are depended on the one issue voter.

In my experience in politics, its amazing how many people will agree with you on 190 out of 200 issues, but they put an enormous amount of value of the other 10. They look for reasons not to vote for you. 

Honestly how many people, besides political geeks like me, actually read the policy books put out by the parties up here? 3%, maybe on a good day?

The BNP says some compelling things to the general people, the vast majority will not look any deeper, and the party will not say HOW it intends to implement its policies. 

Unfortunately or fortunately, in a democracy the nuts cases are allowed to speak and organize.


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## Jenna (May 13, 2009)

Empty Hands said:


> I'll give them credit, the neo-fascist political groups have evolved a lot.  They have developed new media skills, image control, and other hallmarks of modern politicking.  I guess it was inevitable.  Even David Duke tries to sound moderate these days.


Good post   And you are exactly right.  The BNP here also have a niche advantage - a kind of parasitic feeding off the idea that all the country's ills are simple solvable factors of race (non-white) and immigration.  I hate seeing these school-grade notions being crusaded by some of the tabloids here (Mail especially, pffft).  Unfortunately I do not think it is mere rhetoric and politicking because these ideas encourage racism and xenophobia themselves and which only polarises the communities and prejudices and paranoias further.  For me, the BNP do not offer any solutions besides insular, backward-looking anachronisms.  Mussolini is never lauded anywhere by the BNP that I can see, though their "fixes" for the UK would seem impossible without judicious use of his methodologies.  I never understand how they miss that   Anyway, I do not mean to rant and but at times before, my father and his family were considered immigrant here
Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna


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## CoryKS (May 13, 2009)

Empty Hands said:


> Buzzwords rule. "Liberals" are bad. "Fascist" is bad. Put them both together - extra bad!


 
Probably referring to situations like this one. Whether or not it's entirely accurate to label as fascist those who would threaten police action for something like this, I will leave to those wonks who don't think we have nearly enough "Socialism: I Do Not Think It Means What You Think It Means" threads. But no one could argue with a straight face that this sort of authoritarianism was instigated by a right-leaning individual. 

There are libertarian and conservative commentators who have made the point that some European countries have gone rather a bit far in accomodating immigrants, to the point of alienating sectors of their citizenry, and that the result is a growing interest in parties such as the BNP or Le Pen's party in France. They warn that the parties currently in charge need to offer some balance in their policies in order to ward off nationalist tendencies because when Europeans go xenophobic, they tend to do so on the bloodiest scale imaginable.


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## yorkshirelad (May 13, 2009)

Tez3 said:


> Liberal fascist politics? what on earth are you talking about? Liberals in the UK are nothing like the liberals you have in the States and the fascists are the BNP.
> The BNP are the British Nazi Party for crying out loud, they are not the only party to worry about immigration which is actually blown up out of proportion anyway. The BNP are Holocaust deniers and are known rascists.


The Labour party PM wrote a communist manifesto back i the early '70. There are a few racists in prominant positions in the Labour party. An aspiring, female Labour parliamentary candidate was told by an Islamic Labour councilman that she was too Jewish to be a candidate for his constituants. But of course most don't see this as racism, because it would be politically incorrect to label a Pakistani muslim as such and this one guy is also a holocaust denier.

The Labour controled areas of Harehill and Chapeltown in Leeds are also some of the racist places you will find. In Chapeltown, I have personally been threatened with "a good kicking" because I just happened to be a white guy in a black neighbourhood. In Harehills I have been refused service in one particular store because I was not asian. Both of these districts are Labour controlled areas, but if I complained about racism, I would have been laughed out of town. Why? Because of the tone set by the ruling idiots in Whitehall and the positive discrimination standards set by them. They are also becoming morwe and more anti-semetic because of their need to capture the islamic vote. Time for a change. It looks like Brown and his croneys are through. Lets hope the tory's can do a better job. If they're not up for the task, I'm sure the BNP will a some point gain ground. And if they do, good for them.


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## CuongNhuka (May 13, 2009)

CoryKS said:


> But no one could argue with a straight face that this sort of authoritarianism was instigated by a right-leaning individual.


 
Haven't we had this conversation before?


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## CoryKS (May 13, 2009)

CuongNhuka said:


> Haven't we had this conversation before?


 
We're not having it now, if that's where you're going with this.


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## Empty Hands (May 13, 2009)

Protip: racism is not fascism.


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## Tez3 (May 13, 2009)

yorkshirelad said:


> The Labour party PM wrote a communist manifesto back i the early '70. There are a few racists in prominant positions in the Labour party. An aspiring, female Labour parliamentary candidate was told by an Islamic Labour councilman that she was too Jewish to be a candidate for his constituants. But of course most don't see this as racism, because it would be politically incorrect to label a Pakistani muslim as such and this one guy is also a holocaust denier.
> 
> The Labour controled areas of Harehill and Chapeltown in Leeds are also some of the racist places you will find. In Chapeltown, I have personally been threatened with "a good kicking" because I just happened to be a white guy in a black neighbourhood. In Harehills I have been refused service in one particular store because I was not asian. Both of these districts are Labour controlled areas, but if I complained about racism, I would have been laughed out of town. Why? Because of the tone set by the ruling idiots in Whitehall and the positive discrimination standards set by them. They are also becoming morwe and more anti-semetic because of their need to capture the islamic vote. Time for a change. It looks like Brown and his croneys are through. Lets hope the tory's can do a better job. If they're not up for the task, I'm sure the BNP will a some point gain ground. And if they do, good for them.


 
It will never be a good day when the BNP gain control of anything. I go to the places you mention in Leeds all the time and have never had problems. My synagogue is in Chapeltown. 
There is however a huge amount of anti Islamic feeling in Leeds.
the BNP are a foul pestilance and never should they be allowed to take control of even one council seat, their militant wing, Combat 18, will literally batter people into submissin. Please don't think I'm exaggerating or being melodramatic, they really are clones of the Nazi stormtroopers.
Rascists you will find everywhere and in every party but never will you find a party other than the BNP with racism as their policy.
http://www.skrewdriver.net/


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## yorkshirelad (May 13, 2009)

Tez3 said:


> It will never be a good day when the BNP gain control of anything. I go to the places you mention in Leeds all the time and have never had problems. My synagogue is in Chapeltown.
> There is however a huge amount of anti Islamic feeling in Leeds.
> the BNP are a foul pestilance and never should they be allowed to take control of even one council seat, their militant wing, Combat 18, will literally batter people into submissin. Please don't think I'm exaggerating or being melodramatic, they really are clones of the Nazi stormtroopers.
> Rascists you will find everywhere and in every party but never will you find a party other than the BNP with racism as their policy.
> http://www.skrewdriver.net/


To tell you the truth, I know nothing of Combat 18, but I see the left in Britain becoming more and more left and the right becoming more and more right. Racism is rampant in the Labour party. It's called positive discrimination. Tez, with all due respect, your Synagogue may be in Leeds, but you live in North Yorkshire. I lived in West Yorks for all of my childhood, apart from just a few years when I lived in Haxby in York. When we moved to Haxby, I loved it. It was safe and friendly. When we moved back to Leeds I hated it. As a young man, I had to keep my head down most of the time in the areas I mentioned in my last post, for fear of being pummeled.

It seems that anti-racism laws are also being used in the UK, to try to coherse dissenters into towing the party line. So I think that the liberals in charge or the Labour party are becoming totalitarian fascists themselves. Like I said before. When a woman is labelled too Jewish to be a Labour candidate, there obviouslt is a problem.

BTW enjoy Leeds. I much prefer Southern California these days. I have freedom of speech, I can own a gun and have great weather at the same time.


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## tellner (May 13, 2009)

Damn. Other than Tony Blair's "New Labor" and warm beer I thought you Brits had more sense than us Yanks. I remember when the NF was an object of scorn.


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## Sukerkin (May 13, 2009)

Empty Hands said:


> I don't think you really believe that. Assuming the BNP or someone like them fully implemented their vision, any dissenters from the True Faith would be punished - no matter what their pedigree.


 
Quite right, sir.  It was intended to stand out as broad-brush irony.  The path of fascism, whilst initially giving people the 'strong rulers' they crave, has an inivitability about it when it comes to the crushing of any dissent or disagreement.


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## Tez3 (May 13, 2009)

yorkshirelad said:


> To tell you the truth, I know nothing of Combat 18, but I see the left in Britain becoming more and more left and the right becoming more and more right. Racism is rampant in the Labour party. It's called positive discrimination. Tez, with all due respect, your Synagogue may be in Leeds, but you live in North Yorkshire. I lived in West Yorks for all of my childhood, apart from just a few years when I lived in Haxby in York. When we moved to Haxby, I loved it. It was safe and friendly. When we moved back to Leeds I hated it. As a young man, I had to keep my head down most of the time in the areas I mentioned in my last post, for fear of being pummeled.
> 
> It seems that anti-racism laws are also being used in the UK, to try to coherse dissenters into towing the party line. So I think that the liberals in charge or the Labour party are becoming totalitarian fascists themselves. Like I said before. When a woman is labelled too Jewish to be a Labour candidate, there obviouslt is a problem.
> 
> BTW enjoy Leeds. I much prefer Southern California these days. I have freedom of speech, I can own a gun and have great weather at the same time.


 
I was born and raised in Brixton London, have lived all over the country as well as abroad. North Yorkshire is where I'm posted at the moment. My other half is from Oulton, Leeds.
I am not a Labour supporter btw, I'm Liberal in the British sense.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brixton


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## Tez3 (May 13, 2009)

I don't get the California weather but then don't get the earthquake problem either lol. I own guns and get to carry too.


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## yorkshirelad (May 13, 2009)

Ken Morgan said:


> Unfortunately or fortunately, in a democracy the nuts cases are allowed to speak and organize.


 Yes indeed. The proof of the pudding is the Labour party.


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## yorkshirelad (May 13, 2009)

Tez3 said:


> I own guns and get to carry too.


 That's probably why you get no problems in Chapeltown lol. The earthquake thing is a little scary. My mother lives in Harrogate. Whenever there is a wild fire or an earthquake, I always keep my phone handy because she thinks that I've either been burned or buried alive. God bless her.


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## Sukerkin (May 13, 2009)

In response to *Tez*'s last there ("_I'm Liberal in the British sense_"), a hearty "Me too!" .

I don't think we can dismiss *YL*'s experiences tho'. 

Altho' I generally find that you get back what you give with people of all faiths and nations, because of the polarisation that is occurring I have myself gotten some very cold and hostile reactions until I've had chance to interact as a human being (rather than A.N. Other Whiteman).

Now I would also be less than human if that didn't irk me. I'm an Englishman in his own city in his own country being treated as if I didn't belong. I've seen this especially from Pakistani's in traditional garb (in Longton for crying out loud!) but given that Longton has BNP councillor's that might not be too much of a surprise. However, I think the troubles roots are deeper than that.

The refusal of a very visible segment of the immigrant population to integrate is going to be a powder keg issue at some point in the not too distant future. It is something that is a very easy handle for the fascist inclined to seize upon. 

It also is a very real problem. I know that doesn't knit very well with what *Tez* said above but that's because it's regional in it's intensity e.g. there are more Polish living in Crewe than there are British or there are several quarters of Stoke-on-Trent where you'll be lucky to see another white face.

Whilst Liberal values are of common sense and reasonable consensus, there does come a point where a problem has to be recognised for what it is and also to what malevoloent political purposes it can be put.

The solution to the problem is an easy one and it was a process that was in motion when I was younger - I'm at a loss to know why it stopped. That solution is assimilation and integration. When I was in my 'teens and twenties, the Indians living in the area around the university I attended were Stokies first and British next. They weren't quite "Browner than usual for Englishmen" but, particularly the second generation children, weren't far off that level of cultural 'comfort'. 

What went wrong? The obvious answer is religious radicalisation and racism that targeted the 'indig's'. Those combined drove a nasty wedge between the racial/religious groups and I don't see how to undo the damage at this stage.


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## Tez3 (May 13, 2009)

We never like any government thats in and no one at the moment likes any Member of Parliament due to the expenses row. Our present government however is a socialist one, left wing the BNP is the ultra right wing fascist party. The Tories are the right wing, moderate by BNP standards though. The Liberal Democrats are the middle of the road party, some would say neither one thing or another lol! there still is the old Liberal party hangin in there though.
http://www.liberal.org.uk/policies/indrights.htm

"The Liberal Party exists to build a Liberal Society in which every citizen shall possess liberty, property and security and none shall be enslaved by poverty, ignorance or conformity. Its chief care is for the rights and opportunities of the individual, and in all spheres it sets freedom first."


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## Tez3 (May 13, 2009)

Sukerkin said:


> In response to *Tez*'s last there ("_I'm Liberal in the British sense_"), a hearty "Me too!" .
> 
> I don't think we can dismiss *YL*'s experiences tho'.
> 
> ...


 

The problem isn't that we've taken in too many immigrants, the problem is that as human nature will,the immigrants have clustered together. If they were spread throughout the country there would be a balance and you'd find there weren't as many immigrants as you thought.
People like to stay with their countrymen, this reinforces all the customs and languages they brought with them instead of becoming part of the community at large they have become a community in themselves.My people are as guilty of this as any but as people become better off they disperse more widely and integrate better. The problem at the moment is poverty among the communities who have come over here with little education or business knowledge. The perception is that these are the people who are taking the benefits etc and demanding special services and concessions.
The first thing this country needs for all it's citizens, immigrants or not is a proper education system where all children have high standards in literacy etc. The cost of university education must go back to being free, we need well educated people here, we need people who can work their way out of poverty. If you notice multi culturalism always works well when everyone has enough! 
We also need to look at working practices and the belief that working at any job for money is shameful! We've brought up a generation of kids who think they are too good to work at any manual job nor do they want to start at the bottom and work their way up. They want it all given to them. It's their right, they whinge! Immigrant people will often do the jobs that Brits don't want to do but it doesn't stop Brits accusing them of stealing jobs! 
The whole country needs a kickup the backside, we get the government we deserve, we can't blame it all on Labour or the Tories, its us mate, we need to change our attitudes!


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## Tez3 (May 13, 2009)

yorkshirelad said:


> That's probably why you get no problems in Chapeltown lol. The earthquake thing is a little scary. My mother lives in Harrogate. Whenever there is a wild fire or an earthquake, I always keep my phone handy because she thinks that I've either been burned or buried alive. God bless her.


 
I only carry at work lol! Harrogate? I say old chap thats a bit posh!
I tend to get few problems whetever I go tbh, I may be the Pride & Glory, Fighters Only etc hoodies I wear lol! I think they are trying to work out why this middleaged woman is walking around like a gangsta rofl!
This is me in Leeds, I'm the female lol!


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## Sukerkin (May 13, 2009)

The only thing I disagree on there is the 'numbers game'.  We have taken in too many immigrants, too fast.  Just as we have had too many British people leave, too fast.  It's the pace that is the real problem but the magnitude does exist and is exacerbated by foolish policies that force the onus of change onto those people for whom Britain is their country of origin.

It's that feeling of 'disenfranchisement' that parties like the BNP can use to fan the flames of something very unpleasant and altogether not 'British'.  

I know the rest of the world laughs at our notions of 'playing a straight bat' and 'giving the other bloke a chance'.  I also know that these notions grew out of having the power base to be 'fair minded' because noone else could seriously challenge us anyway.  But they do exist and I hate to see that background I grew up with be twisted into something distasteful (Evil is not too strong a word in this case).


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## yorkshirelad (May 13, 2009)

I don't want to get off of the thread topic here, but talking about political parties, I had a great deal of respact for Robert Kilroy-Silk in the past. I've been away from the UK for quite some time and recently heard that he started his own political party, I know that Sukerkin and Tez will know something about this. Is his party a viable alternative, to the average Joe who is fed up with Tories and Labour?


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## Sukerkin (May 13, 2009)

Ah, Mr. Silk . I too had always thought him to be an urbane and well educated man (which he is). But he was also deemed to be an inveterate racist and got kicked off the BBC because of it. He landed in the arms of UKIP (a 'flavour' of the BNP to be simplistic about it) but then went Independant and is now an MEP.

http://www.robertkilroysilk.org.uk/

Oddly enough, I think that some of our friends here, of Republican bent, might find his views quite familiar.


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## Tez3 (May 13, 2009)

yorkshirelad said:


> I don't want to get off of the thread topic here, but talking about political parties, I had a great deal of respact for Robert Kilroy-Silk in the past. I've been away from the UK for quite some time and recently heard that he started his own political party, I know that Sukerkin and Tez will know something about this. Is his party a viable alternative, to the average Joe who is fed up with Tories and Labour?


 
He didn't start his own party he joined the United Kingdom Independance Party but left in a sulk.The UKIP a bit of a joke tbh.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_Independence_Party

He was outed as a rascist bully, lost his tv programme as well as any political reputation he may have had.
http://bfewster.members.gn.apc.org/euro/kilroy.htm
He did a cheap reality show set in Australia and came out looking childish petulant and a bully. We haven't heard of him for a long time now.


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## yorkshirelad (May 13, 2009)

Tez3 said:


> I only carry at work lol! Harrogate? I say old chap thats a bit posh!


 Posh indeed. I've never been to Harrogate, but Mum says it's "lovely". She must have seen some value in us living in the council estates of Leeds. 

The utube clip was great. When I left in 1994, I don't believe there was anywhere to train with a cage. I use to train at Burmantofts boxing club, right next to Jimmy's hospital and felt priveleged to be able to spar in a standard ring. Happy days.


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## yorkshirelad (May 13, 2009)

Tez3 said:


> He didn't start his own party he joined the United Kingdom Independance Party but left in a sulk.The UKIP a bit of a joke tbh.
> quote]
> I just read that Darth Vader joined the UKIP this May. No joke David Prowse joined the party. Thanks for the info.


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## Tez3 (May 13, 2009)

yorkshirelad said:


> Tez3 said:
> 
> 
> > He didn't start his own party he joined the United Kingdom Independance Party but left in a sulk.The UKIP a bit of a joke tbh.
> ...


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## yorkshirelad (May 13, 2009)

Tez3 said:


> yorkshirelad said:
> 
> 
> > Ah before he was Darth Vader he was this...
> ...


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## Tez3 (May 13, 2009)

The BNP on the Gurkhas
http://www.stopthebnp.org.uk/index.php?location=news&art=1195

BNP and the KKK
http://www.stopthebnp.org.uk/index.php?location=news&art=1185
BNP lies
http://www.stopthebnp.org.uk/index.php?location=news&art=1192

The Hope not Hate campaign.

http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/
http://www.stopthebnp.org.uk/index.php

I've got the Tshirt and will campaign to keep the BNP out.


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## yorkshirelad (May 13, 2009)

Tez3 said:


> The BNP on the Gurkhas
> http://www.stopthebnp.org.uk/index.php?location=news&art=1195
> 
> BNP and the KKK
> ...


Damn shame. How anyone can deny Gurkhas settlement rights in the UK is beyond me. You're absolutely right, if this is the way the bastards do business, they have no place in British politics as far as I'm concerned. Then again, show me which government have treated these people fairly. 

I have no problem with the BNP protesting the rights of the KKK to enter British soil as a freedom of speech issue. But this obviously goes beyond freedom of speech, to some kind of twisted brotherhood issue. 

Can't there be a party out there that stresses common sense and fairness to all. It seems that we're held to ransom by the left and right zealots in both the UK and US.


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## Tez3 (May 13, 2009)

yorkshirelad said:


> Damn shame. How anyone can deny Gurkhas settlement rights in the UK is beyond me. You're absolutely right, if this is the way the bastards do business, they have no place in British politics as far as I'm concerned. Then again, show me which government have treated these people fairly.
> 
> I have no problem with the BNP protesting the rights of the KKK to enter British soil as a freedom of speech issue. But this obviously goes beyond freedom of speech, to some kind of twisted brotherhood issue.
> 
> Can't there be a party out there that stresses common sense and fairness to all. It seems that we're held to ransom by the left and right zealots in both the UK and US.


 
The Monster Loony Raving Party!
Before mocking have a think, they suggested years ago that the voting age should be 18, people laughed yet we have a voting age of 18. Theres a surprising amount of common sense here!
Have a look at their manifesto and you will be surprised that among the loony clauses there some very sensible ones!
http://www.omrlp.com/index.php?page=manifestoproposals-1


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## yorkshirelad (May 13, 2009)

Tez3 said:


> The Monster Loony Raving Party!
> Before mocking have a think, they suggested years ago that the voting age should be 18, people laughed yet we have a voting age of 18. Theres a surprising amount of common sense here!
> Have a look at their manifesto and you will be surprised that among the loony clauses there some very sensible ones!
> http://www.omrlp.com/index.php?page=manifestoproposals-1


Raving Lord Such.....another nostalgia moment Tez. You're gona have me crying into the Kleenex if you're not careful.


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## Tez3 (May 13, 2009)

yorkshirelad said:


> Raving Lord Such.....another nostalgia moment Tez. You're gona have me crying into the Kleenex if you're not careful.


 
A prince among men, much lamented.

Nah then. . . .Yorkshire pudding with gravy served as main course, a pint of best bitter, fruitcake and cheese, ferrets down the trousers... Eh lad get yersel back ome!


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## Deaf Smith (May 13, 2009)

Looks to me like a British version of the Tea Party. Those people look like average joes that pay taxes. At least the youtube video seems to show that.

Questions:

1) Do they have 'brown shirt' thugs like the SA Germany had?

2) Are they pushing to expell people for just being there?

3) Does there positions indicate a 'cesar' or 'leader' to have all the power to straiten up the mess in England?

If not, ever thought they are just tired of the taxes and spending and bloaded immigration and..... well not much different than over here in the U.S.

Let me know the answers to the questions above.

Deaf


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## Tez3 (May 13, 2009)

Deaf Smith said:


> Looks to me like a British version of the Tea Party. Those people look like average joes that pay taxes. At least the youtube video seems to show that.
> 
> Questions:
> 
> ...


 

the answers to all three questions is yes, a very resounding yes at that.

The 'seucrity' ie military wing of the BNP is Combat 18, 18 for Adolph Hitlers initials. They have been seen parading around in black shirts, they are virulently rascist and extemely violent. 
In April 1999 David Copeland a member of Combat 18 and BNP bombed three pubs using nailbombs and targeting, black, gay and Asian communities, the last one killed three and injuried over a hundred people. They have beaten up Asians, Jews and blacks some elderly, in the street, damaged synagogues and mosques. They are also are extremely threatening when acting as security on BNP meetings. Protestors at these meetings have also been beaten up.
The BNP wants to rid the UK of all non white, non Protestant, non heterosexual, non communist people.Their manifesto makes it plain that all non whites are to shipped out of the country. They also believe girls are being pushed to have careers when they would really find staying at home having a family would be more rewarding. One of Hitlers pet plans that.

The BNP is actually a reincarnation of the National Front although theres still the remains of an organisation of that name. Many of the BNP memebrs were former NF members. The love of Hitler, his policies and the swastica signs, tattoos and parroting of Mein Kampf among BNP supporters can surely leave no one in any doubt what we have to face up to here. These aren't ordinary people who pay their taxes, they are the Nazis among us, we've fought them once we need to do it again. I've seen them at work and it's far from pleasant or democratic.


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## Sukerkin (May 13, 2009)

As I said in the OP, *DS*, the presentation of the 'surface' is just that and is an attempt to get the Ordinary Joe (TM) onside. Underneath, however, you would find very little to differentiate them from the German National Socialist Party.

It's a touch irritating in it's format as it was meant as a presentation (using Page Down to navigate seems best) but this short 'slide show' for young students bears reading and studying for comparisons:

http://www.schoolshistory.org.uk/worksheets/Presentations/Hitler/The%20Nazi%20Party%92s%20Rise%20to%20Power.ppt#1

The still plainer answer to your questions is "Yes".

Edit:  Ach, gott in himmel!  Irene is clearly lightning fast tonight as she got there before me ... again :lol:.


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## Tez3 (May 13, 2009)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3894529.stm
BNP activists admit to race crimes

http://libcom.org/news/shooting-spree-bnp-man-jailed-for-life-23022007
BNP member jailed for shooting spree "wanted to kill all blacks"

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2009/05/06/exposed-when-bnp-met-the-kkk-115875-21335664/
BNP leader with the leader of the KKK.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...P-leaflet-says-black-Asian-Britons-exist.html
bloodless genocide and the BNP leader who says you aren't British if you are born here and black.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Griffin
the BNP leader and would be fuhrer.


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## Tez3 (May 13, 2009)

Sorry Sukerkin! As you know, terrorism is my Mastermind specialised subject lol! have done a lot of watching these guys both for professional and personal reasons.


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## Sukerkin (May 13, 2009)

It's perfectly fine, duck.  I commend you on the clear way you have pared away the 'cover story' to show what is behind the somewhat reasonable facade :sensei rei:.


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## Tez3 (May 13, 2009)

"All there is to know about Adoph Eichman 
Eyes: medium
Hair:  medium
Weight:  medium
height:  medium
Distinguishing features:  none
Number of fingers:  ten
Number of toes:  ten
inteliigence:  medium
What did you expect?
Talons?
Oversize incisors?
Green saliva?
Madness?"

Leonard Cohen.


Never Again!!!


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## Deaf Smith (May 13, 2009)

Well it looks like you are in for some trouble in Britian then (and maybe the whole world.)

You do know what Berthold Brecht wrote in his play, The Resistible Rise of Arturo Ui, about this kind of situation?

Deaf


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## yorkshirelad (May 13, 2009)

Tez3 said:


> A prince among men, much lamented.
> 
> Nah then. . . .Yorkshire pudding with gravy served as main course, a pint of best bitter, fruitcake and cheese, ferrets down the trousers... Eh lad get yersel back ome!


Ey up lass! You got mi cryin and mi mouth waterin. A pint of best sounds right nice now a tell thi.


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## Tez3 (May 14, 2009)

The British public is not stupid and will only be hoodwinked for a while, there's plenty of support for the anti fascist movements. If it takes another pitched battle to rid ourselves of this evil then so be it.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/london/content/articles/2006/10/03/cablestreet_battle_feature.shtml


People looking in on Britain and gaining their information from partisan media and from their own prejudices have little idea what life is like here. As Britons we probably don't help because we have a habit of emphasising the worst of everything, we aren't very good about praising whats actually good about our country so people think we have rampant knife and gun crime, immigants everywhere taking over, bad weather, and loads of strikes yet when you really look at our country and remember we've been going a couple of millenia now on a scale of one to ten we aren't that bad off. We need of course to be vigilant, to watch what the government is doing but it is again our habit to always moan about the incumbant government whoever they maybe!
Whatever people think our country is actually less violent than years gone by, our people on the whole are better off than they've ever been, ask anyone who's lived through the 1920s and 30s. The NHS may creak and groan but again if you ask people what it was like pre NHS days they will tell you it's a godsend. Our social secuirty system may be abused, it may cost a fortune but in it's way it works, not pefect but is there any system in any country that is?
We are a people with a social conscience and I think few would go back to the old days of workhouses and medicine only for those that can afford it. If left to ourselves and not stirred up by the fascists we quietly do get on in our multi cultural society. We need as I said to take a long hard look at our education system and we need to start changes attitudes to working. this hasn't come about becuase of socialism quite the opposite I believe it's come from the Thatcher years when the slogan was 'greed is good', altruism was seen as bad and it was everyman for themselves, its left us with young people expecting to have the good things in life given to them. 'I will work for it' is replaced by 'I want it now!'
The immigrant communities have a lot to give us, after all there's no such thing as a pure blood Englishman, even our royal family aren't English let alone British. We have always absorbed immigrants we can again given common sense, not just by us but also by them. Encouragement to learn English, to integrate while keeping their identity is perfectly possible. Half the time it's not the immigrants but the white people who are the problem in that they get enamoured of the idea of being 'broadminded' and showing how much they 'understand' immigrants, actually it usually comes off as being bloody patronising.
One thing Thatcher did that was criminal was sell off council housing, we had a huge stock in this country of affordable rented housing which meant people who needed homes got them, more should have been built for councils not allow people to buy them at a discount and sell them on at a profit. More council housing would have spread immigrant populations across the country, making integration easier and no one council struggling to meet the needs of a large immigrant population. The councils should have been able to keep the council housing they had in good repair not let them run down because of capping by the successive governments. Still that's the Tories for you, greed is good. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_estate

Good housing at affordable prices, good education with students leaving fulltime education equipped to work would go a long way to making this country a better place. As people get better jobs, earn more, buy their own houses, more council housing is available and so on and so on. A more prosperous and secure country is much better able to withstand the onslaught of the fascists.


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## Sukerkin (May 14, 2009)

Some very good points, *Tez*, most particularly about the fundamamentals of the British 'character' and what damage was done to that by erosion of social conscience and emphasis of greedy self-aggrandisement.

The disjunction of community that has come about through several avenues is a major player in what ails 'us' at present. People need to get to know their neighbours again and be considerate to them (as opposed to just thinking of their own needs and pleasures).

One of the ways to re-cement neighbourly relations is found via the garden, of all things. I have met and conversed with most of the people in our street now through the simple auspice of being out in the front garden weeding, watering and planting i.e. I am there to be seen and spoken too rather than just being "that bloke with the long hair who lives at number such-and-such".

A change in town planning is needed to bring that about in many places tho' as there has been an explosion in 'luxury apartments' (are there ever any non-luxury ones ?) and overly crowded housing. No gardens and not enough parking space are a recipe for disharmony as far as I can tell - but of course the private developers care only for how much profit they can squeeze from a piece of land rather than for the quality of life their 'developments' promote.


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## Tez3 (May 14, 2009)

It was one of the things I was wondering about on another thread here on whether American states would become independant of the whole. I wonder if people actually _need_ to feel part of a smaller community rather than a huge one, that they need to know their neighbours and have a more 'village' type lifestyle where communities could keep a firmer grasp on what happens to them. The phrase it takes a village to raise a child comes to mind.
The way things are going in Europe where communities are trying to become independant from the bigger countries makes me think we have probably lost something in the move to big cities and ever expanding mindless estates of houses. People have moved away from the immediate families, leaving parents to cope on their own without the benefit of the extended family, there's no neighbours to keep an eye on all the children out playing, strangers aren't noticed anymore.
Our playing fields where child could play safely have been sold off to developers from private housing too. Communal gardens would be a wonderful idea, I watched a programme recently where the people in the street all decided to green it, they planted boxes, and trees all along the street wherever they could and it looked marvellous as well as bringing people together.
People coming together should be the battlecry here, so much harder to hate when you know your neighbour. Much easier to understand problems when you talk. Better to take control as a community of what happens in your neighbourhood. 
The hard face of capitalism doesn't suit us, the everyman for himself and blow you isn't what the British people are really like, we need to look at ourselves and realise we are first class Brits not second class Americans. We are conservative liberals (with small c and l) not rampant capitalists in the crass 'I'm alright Jack' manner, we may not have always succeeded by we've always started out with good intentions to do the right thing by people. The British version if you like of the Aussie 'fair go'.
The belief and idea of British fair play must never be trampled, even if it gets battered sometimes, it's what will save us in the end.


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## Xue Sheng (May 14, 2009)

v


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