# Need some input on concrete breaking material??



## dcsma (Apr 15, 2012)

Going up in the ranks and testing for my 1st and 2nd Dan's I remember getting the concrete bricks that was call a cinder block.  Which is the lightest compound of concrete that was made.  Now days I'm having trouble finding that compound for demonstrations and for my students. One is the concrete mixture that you guys use still the Cinder Block? Two do I have to specially order them from a online company or can I get it at your local Lowes / Home Depot stores.  What I've seen at them stores are a stronger compound but don't know the name of that compound. And before an event has anyone baked a brick in the oven to loosen it up??


----------



## Bill Mattocks (Apr 15, 2012)

We use concrete pavers they sell at hardware stores for around a dollar each.  Something like 18 inches by 2 inches by 8 inches as I recall.  Just make sure they are dry; I'm told that wet ones can resist breaking and really mess you up.

That's it.  No magic.  Standard pavers.


----------



## mastercole (Apr 15, 2012)

dcsma said:


> Going up in the ranks and testing for my 1st and 2nd Dan's I remember getting the concrete bricks that was call a cinder block.  Which is the lightest compound of concrete that was made.  Now days I'm having trouble finding that compound for demonstrations and for my students. One is the concrete mixture that you guys use still the Cinder Block? Two do I have to specially order them from a online company or can I get it at your local Lowes / Home Depot stores.  What I've seen at them stores are a stronger compound but don't know the name of that compound. And before an event has anyone baked a brick in the oven to loosen it up??



My belief is that heavy breaking is not healthy for your students, and can potentially permanently injure them. We never have regular students do heavy breaking at our school, unless it is a guy with a bad attitude, then he gets to do heavy Poomsae, heavy breaking, and of course, heavy sparring. I would recommend only light breaking for paying customers.

However, a student that is very interested in breaking can make a pursuit out if it and take it as far as they like. The US Hanmadang in the USA, and finally the World Hanmadang in Korea are the pinnacle of breaking competitions in Taekwondo.  That special student would start out learning to break light objects, then slowly build over the years adding more layers and then graduating to heavier materials.


----------



## RobinTKD (Apr 15, 2012)

mastercole said:


> My belief is that heavy breaking is not healthy for your students, and can potentially permanently injure them.



That definitely needs to be taken into account, never let a student break heavy objects unless you are convinced they have proper technique. Some injuries never go away, years ago I tried to break a brick, I hit it wrong, bounced off and because my whole body was going with the punch, re-hit it unintentionally. On the second hit I struck the knuckles on my little finger and the one next to it, i sent the knuckle of my little finger back into my hand and despite treatment, it has never sat right since.


----------



## mastercole (Apr 15, 2012)

RobinTKD said:


> That definitely needs to be taken into account, never let a student break heavy objects unless you are convinced they have proper technique. Some injuries never go away, years ago I tried to break a brick, I hit it wrong, bounced off and because my whole body was going with the punch, re-hit it unintentionally. On the second hit I struck the knuckles on my little finger and the one next to it, i sent the knuckle of my little finger back into my hand and despite treatment, it has never sat right since.



Ouch. yeah, breaking is like full contact sparring, it has to have a very scientific and cautious approach, then it is really up to the practitioner to take it as far as they want. At least one Kwan founder that I know, who is in his 90's and who's specialty was knife hand breaking of bricks in his earlier days is now against that type of breaking, or even using the talyunbong (makiwara). He said that it is not worth damaging your hands and today there are better ways to train.


----------



## Bill Mattocks (Apr 15, 2012)

There is soft breaking as well as hard.






[video=youtube_share;UHaKD3ehDVI]http://youtu.be/UHaKD3ehDVI[/video]

The above is not me, nor my dojo.  Our method of breaking is similar, though not exactly the same, so I used it for demonstration purposes here.

We use a phone book instead of a cloth.  We do not use spacers between pavers; some do.  In our method that we use in our dojo, we use a similar motion, using the palm, trying to focus ki and not use power, but we set the pavers up on blocks and drop from a standing position to one knee as we deliver the blow.  It looks the same in terms of breaking, though.  Fairly lower speed and power than many full-power breaks.

I can do two pavers.  Not many.  We have very small people in our dojo who can do three.  A couple guys can do four, and our sensei can do seven.  He has done four with the back of his hand.

I'm not saying breaking is safe, but it doesn't have to be a major risk, I think.  I certainly made my palm sting when I was trying to break for the first time.

We only do this like a couple times per year.  It's not a dojo requirement and if a person doesn't want to do it, they don't have to.


----------



## RobinTKD (Apr 15, 2012)

mastercole said:


> Ouch. yeah, breaking is like full contact sparring, it has to have a very scientific and cautious approach, then it is really up to the practitioner to take it as far as they want. At least one Kwan founder that I know, who is in his 90's and who's specialty was knife hand breaking of bricks in his earlier days is now against that type of breaking, or even using the talyunbong (makiwara). He said that it is not worth damaging your hands and today there are better ways to train.



I'd like to point out that I do NOW have the correct technique to break, and that I haven't injured myself since when doing hard breaks. The same with all full contact activities (sparring and breaking), good technique is essential to prevent injury. The same should be said of talyunbong training, hojo undo, and weight lifting.


----------



## Earl Weiss (Apr 15, 2012)

Bill Mattocks said:


> We use concrete pavers they sell at hardware stores for around a dollar each. Something like 18 inches by 2 inches by 8 inches as I recall. Just make sure they are dry; I'm told that wet ones can resist breaking and really mess you up.
> 
> That's it. No magic. Standard pavers.



Ditto only we call them patio blocks. Pavers are typicaly for vehicle traffic wihich these will not stand up to, nor would you want to try and break rela brick pavers.  These are pretty consistent as to formula. 

BTW baking stuff in an oven to prepare it for breaking is called...cheating.


----------



## Dirty Dog (Apr 15, 2012)

I'm with Master Weiss on this. Baking is cheating...

I buy blocks at a local shop that sells them for landscaping. The ones that we used to call cinder blocks they call light weight. 


Sent from my iPhone using TapaTalk.


----------



## Cyriacus (Apr 15, 2012)

Baking is Cheating. If You want to not break hard things, go back to wood or something.

Other than that, Cinderblocks are usually a good start. They break much easier than a solid slab.


----------



## Buka (Apr 16, 2012)

Once you take it out of an oven.....is it technically a "McBrick"?


----------



## Earl Weiss (Apr 16, 2012)

ANother common Cheat:





& same idea disguised a little better

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAmzg64452M&feature=related

Disguised poorly

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-c9IkwzyY4k&feature=related


----------



## andyjeffries (Apr 16, 2012)

Earl Weiss said:


> ANother common Cheat:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I've seen these types of break done before.  How are they cheating though?  The stones aren't laying flat on a surface, but that's the same as all downward breaks?


----------



## Bill Mattocks (Apr 16, 2012)

Earl Weiss said:


> BTW baking stuff in an oven to prepare it for breaking is called...cheating.



I don't recall advocating that.  I said that from what I've been told, wet ones are significantly harder to break.  When you buy them at the store, they're often stored outside.  We try not to get the ones sitting in puddles of water.  I said nothing about baking them.


----------



## Carol (Apr 16, 2012)

Bill Mattocks said:


> I don't recall advocating that.  I said that from what I've been told, wet ones are significantly harder to break.  When you buy them at the store, they're often stored outside.  We try not to get the ones sitting in puddles of water.  I said nothing about baking them.



You didn't advocate it Bill -- the OP brought it up, asking about baking a brick in an oven to "loosen it up" before a competition.


----------



## Dirty Dog (Apr 16, 2012)

I think water has a greater affect on wood breaks. 
We did a demo at a school Thursday. I did a 7-slab break for 7 groups of kids. My pavers were stored outside and about half of them were quite wet because it rained a lot overnight. 
I can't say I noticed any difference breaking the wet ones. 


Sent from my iPhone using TapaTalk.


----------



## Bill Mattocks (Apr 16, 2012)

Carol said:


> You didn't advocate it Bill -- the OP brought it up, asking about baking a brick in an oven to "loosen it up" before a competition.



Sorry, thought it was directed at my comment about 'wet' bricks.  Context is everything.


----------



## Archtkd (Apr 16, 2012)

Bill Mattocks said:


> We use concrete pavers they sell at hardware stores for around a dollar each.  Something like 18 inches by 2 inches by 8 inches as I recall.  Just make sure they are dry; I'm told that wet ones can resist breaking and really mess you up.
> 
> That's it.  No magic.  Standard pavers.



Be sure to check the pavers are not reinforced with fiber glass. That happens once in a while, in some hardware stores. I think the moisture level issue will depend on technique of breaking. It doesn't seem to be too big of an issue when I've used a palm-heel strike.


----------



## Bill Mattocks (Apr 16, 2012)

Archtkd said:


> Be sure to check the pavers are not reinforced with fiber glass. That happens once in a while, in some hardware stores. I think the moisture level issue will depend on technique of breaking. It doesn't seem to be too big of an issue when I've used a palm-heel strike.



Ow, yeah, that would hurt a lot, I'm guessing.  Would I be correct in guessing that the reinforced ones would not be the cheapest?  We always buy the cheapest ones there; sometimes less than $1 each.


----------



## Archtkd (Apr 16, 2012)

Bill Mattocks said:


> Ow, yeah, that would hurt a lot, I'm guessing.  Would I be correct in guessing that the reinforced ones would not be the cheapest?  We always buy the cheapest ones there; sometimes less than $1 each.


I personally have not come across the reinforced variety, but I've heard sad tales from folks who bought them without knowing. I usually get mine at Home Depot, but I always ask if they are reinforced or not. I would think they cost more.


----------



## Earl Weiss (Apr 16, 2012)

andyjeffries said:


> I've seen these types of break done before. How are they cheating though? The stones aren't laying flat on a surface, but that's the same as all downward breaks?



Watch closely. Videos 1&3. Where they have on hand on the end of the rock they raise the other slightly so it slams down into the support.  That is why below the support they have another piece of stell or cement. Video 2 is supported at both ends but just barely. It's struck at a slight angle so it slips of one side and slams into the base. That is why the supports are always very short. So it can drop off a half inch and slam into the base.  Most other breaks spanning 2 supports are 12 inches or more above the base. There is a reason it is so close.


----------

