# Atacx gym shaolin



## ATACX GYM (May 1, 2012)

Did you forget that I hold a Black Belt in Shaolin Kempo as well? Here's my variant of Shaolin Kempo Combination 3. It's much more functional than the traditional version. I hope you enjoy.


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## Josh Oakley (May 1, 2012)

Who is the "you" to whom you refer?

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## ETinCYQX (May 1, 2012)

Out of curiosity, how many black belts do you have? I can think of four you've said off the top of my head.


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## Josh Oakley (May 1, 2012)

Not bad. You can also change your height and then the groin is just fine as a target for a punch. And instead of grabbing the arm, you can grab the shoulder and pull down... As long as the guy reacts to the groin shot. 

Does your dm3 not have a takedown already? Mine didn't stop at the back two-knuckle punch.

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## ATACX GYM (May 2, 2012)

Josh Oakley said:


> Not bad. You can also change your height and then the groin is just fine as a target for a punch. And instead of grabbing the arm, you can grab the shoulder and pull down... As long as the guy reacts to the groin shot.
> 
> Does your dm3 not have a takedown already? Mine didn't stop at the back two-knuckle punch.
> 
> Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2




Absolutely. Your variants and suggestions are dead on target. I tend to focus on the bladder/groin shot set up because it's gender and largely age nuetral...kids of either sex, smaller men and women can use this approach with greater success. 

The takedowns I teach at my Gym at that lowest of ranks...Pre-White Belt Lvl A...are all used with every attack in that rank. So we'll do whatever sequence [ dm 3 in this case ] and shoot the double or single [ usually with help from another tech like a good bite on his thigh. I couldn't show that on the video because my uke--AL--is untrained and is no fan of such a move, lol ] or osotogare, tai otoshi, ashi, bodylock trip, etc. after, before, and in the midst of every attack sequence. 

We get in copious amounts of reps [ usually 300 per practice ] and work up lotsa sweat, but it's fun as hell and nobody gets bored...and my students get good really fast as a result.

And NO...the way I was initially taught dm 3? We had NO TAKEDOWNS in it. What did yours have?


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## ATACX GYM (May 2, 2012)

Josh Oakley said:


> Who is the "you" to whom you refer?
> 
> Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2




Ahhh, just a "general" you...nobody in particular. :ultracool


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## ATACX GYM (May 2, 2012)

ETinCYQX said:


> Out of curiosity, how many black belts do you have? I can think of four you've said off the top of my head.




Black belts in: Shaolin Kempo, Taekwondo, Tang Soo Do, Hapkido, Judo, Kenpo Karate, Hung Gar [ black sash ] the equivalent of same [ coach or assistant coach rank ] in boxing, wrestling, Muay Thai, and I'm a Capoeira instructor too. Capoeira has cords, not belts. There's more, but you get the point.


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## Josh Oakley (May 4, 2012)

The takedown in my version is right after the back two-knuckle, you grab the opposite shoulder, pulling it to you, while simultaneously pushing the opposite shoulder away, and pull down to take him to the ground. As he's falling, you can throw a front two-knuckle to the chin. From what I understand, it's a fairly common takedown from dm3. What lineage was yours though?

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## Chris Parker (May 5, 2012)

To be bluntly honest, Ras, I'd say that you've learnt some mechanics of all these systems, but you haven't learnt any martial art yet (itself). That's from your seeming complete lack of understanding of how and why they structure techniques the way they do, and the insistence that each art, regardless of it's history or origin, or it's ideal context, needs to be designed for your immediate needs where you are then and there. In this clip you show no understanding of the changing methods of attack that have been preferred in different areas, and at different times, as well as missing the basic tactics that the initial technique is teaching you. Additionally, your mechanics don't suit this system, as you've taken them from your more standard Kempo, and just changed the order of the strikes. Oh, and your guy isn't going to hit you a lot of the time, so your distancing, as well as your timing, is out.


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## ATACX GYM (May 5, 2012)

Chris Parker said:


> To be bluntly honest, Ras, I'd say that you've learnt some mechanics of all these systems, but you haven't learnt any martial art yet (itself). That's from your seeming complete lack of understanding of how and why they structure techniques the way they do, and the insistence that each art, regardless of it's history or origin, or it's ideal context, needs to be designed for your immediate needs where you are then and there. In this clip you show no understanding of the changing methods of attack that have been preferred in different areas, and at different times, as well as missing the basic tactics that the initial technique is teaching you. Additionally, your mechanics don't suit this system, as you've taken them from your more standard Kempo, and just changed the order of the strikes. Oh, and your guy isn't going to hit you a lot of the time, so your distancing, as well as your timing, is out.




The entirety of this analysis, top to bottom, is incorrect. You have the right to voice your [ comprehensively incorrect in all forms ] analysis of what you think I know of mechanics and martial arts [ even though your analysis and perceptions have less to do with any form of reality than the The Cat in The Hat on a LSD trip induced dream ].  

And this:


Chris Parker said:


> . That's from your seeming complete lack of understanding of how and why they structure techniques the way they do, and the insistence that each art, regardless of it's history or origin, or it's ideal context, needs to be designed for your immediate needs where you are then and there. In this clip you show no understanding of the changing methods of attack that have been preferred in different areas, and at different times, as well as missing the basic tactics that the initial technique is teaching you. Additionally, your mechanics don't suit this system, as you've taken them from your more standard Kempo, and just changed the order of the strikes. Oh, and your guy isn't going to hit you a lot of the time, so your distancing, as well as your timing, is out.



A few decades ago I had the opportunity to show this sequence to one of Fred Villari's top West Coast guys. He was quite impressed...especially since this was decades before the UFC got its current full head of steam, and during the time that Pancrase had not yet yielded its position in the minds of combat martial arts fans worldwide as the premier and most popular combat sport on the planet. He proceeded to say the exact opposite of all that you opined above.


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## Chris Parker (May 5, 2012)

Then counter my criticism, Ras. Explain how the mechanics, power source, philosophy etc are different for Shaolin Kempo versus your American Kempo. Explain how you aren't missing the basic tactics of the technique in your version.

In other words, just saying "you're wrong" without any backup isn't a very convincing argument from you. And I'm basing my assessment of your knowledge on a lot more than just this one clip.


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## ATACX GYM (May 5, 2012)

Chris Parker said:


> Then counter my criticism, Ras. Explain how the mechanics, power source, philosophy etc are different for Shaolin Kempo versus your American Kempo. Explain how you aren't missing the basic tactics of the technique in your version.
> 
> In other words, just saying "you're wrong" without any backup isn't a very convincing argument from you. And I'm basing my assessment of your knowledge on a lot more than just this one clip.



The above isn't a counter to your criticism. The first part to any aspect of doing the above would be first for you to verify with an empirical analysis that your opinion holds factual merit. My grasp of mechanics, my power source, understanding of philosophy, etc etc are not questionable merely because you said they are.


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## Chris Parker (May 5, 2012)

Ah, you added a bit....



ATACX GYM said:


> And this:
> 
> 
> A few decades ago I had the opportunity to show this sequence to one of Fred Villari's top West Coast guys. He was quite impressed...especially since this was decades before the UFC got its current full head of steam, and during the time that Pancrase had not yet yielded its position in the minds of combat martial arts fans worldwide as the premier and most popular combat sport on the planet. He proceeded to say the exact opposite of all that you opined above.



Frankly, that's irrelevant (and a few decades ago? You would have been, what, 12?). Who knows, maybe you did it better back then than you did on this video? But what does the UFC/MMA have to do with a Shaolin Kempo technique? Name dropping out of context doesn't mean much, Ras.



ATACX GYM said:


> The above isn't a counter to your criticism. The first part to any aspect of doing the above would be first for you to verify with an empirical analysis that your opinion holds factual merit. My grasp of mechanics, my power source, understanding of philosophy, etc etc are not questionable merely because you said they are.



No kidding it's not a counter... 

But no, that's not the first part. Partially because that's not what "empirical" means (again), but mainly because you're the one demonstrating, you're the one claiming to have all these disparate ranks, and you're the one whose clips all look the same no matter what art it is you're claiming to be showing. Your Judo clip has been classified as not being Judo, your Shaolin clip here looks just like your American Kempo stuff, your Capoeira suffers from similar issues, and so on. I'm actually giving you the opportunity to demonstrate some credibility here, you might want to grab hold of it while you can.


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## ATACX GYM (May 5, 2012)

Chris Parker said:


> Frankly, that's irrelevant (and a few decades ago? You would have been, what, 12?). Who knows, maybe you did it better back then than you did on this video? But what does the UFC/MMA have to do with a Shaolin Kempo technique? Name dropping out of context doesn't mean much, Ras.




You're incorrect--again--in every regard. Since you're in Australia, you might not appreciate the context of my commen regarding the UFC and Pancrase...which may explain why you misunderstood it.

QUOTE=Chris Parker;1488078]
But no, that's not the first part. Partially because that's not what "empirical" means (again), but mainly because you're the one demonstrating, you're the one claiming to have all these disparate ranks, and you're the one whose clips all look the same no matter what art it is you're claiming to be showing.[/QUOTE]

I apologize for assuming that you've spent time around enough quality scientists who use the term "empirical analysis" as shorthand for an analysis presenting comprehensive empirical data which propels their objective analysis to the reasonable conclusion which they have reached.


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## Chris Parker (May 5, 2012)

Please. I go back a while too, Ras. I was around when it all started, and again I ask what on earth that has to do with your understanding of the differences between arts, as you have yet to display any actual understanding whatsoever of anything beyond different combinations and sequences of movements.


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## ATACX GYM (May 5, 2012)

Chris Parker said:


> Please. I go back a while too, Ras. I was around when it all started, and again I ask what on earth that has to do with your understanding of the differences between arts, as you have yet to display any actual understanding whatsoever of anything beyond different combinations and sequences of movements.







ATACX GYM said:


> My grasp of mechanics, my power source, understanding of philosophy, etc etc are not questionable merely because you said they are.



In order to evoke the response that you wish, you need to provide evidence of the correctness of your assertion. You have not done so...you have merely opined about my [ in your opinion ] lack of understanding of this and that. Provide evidence that your opinion is frocked with something more potent, more concrete, more sure than...the posts asserting your opinions.


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## Chris Parker (May 5, 2012)

The evidence is your own videos and posts scattered throughout this forum and others, versus my posts on similar topics (the particulars of martial arts and so forth). You're not looking that good, and ducking the question like this just makes you look worse, Ras. I'm offering you a way out here.


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## ATACX GYM (May 5, 2012)

Chris Parker said:


> The evidence is your own videos and posts scattered throughout this forum and others, versus my posts on similar topics (the particulars of martial arts and so forth). You're not looking that good, and ducking the question like this just makes you look worse, Ras. I'm offering you a way out here.



Thank you for the offer. But this exchange would be curtailed if you would offer video of what you are specifically referring to. If the evidence is in my own videos? Simply copy and paste the relevant videos. You have spent 30 minutes going back and forth over various threads of mine responding to this and that post. Surely a mere minute or two more to post the specific video you're referring to won't inconvenience you further


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## Chris Parker (May 5, 2012)

Er, I think you meant to post that in the Sword and Hammer thread, Ras... you're not getting confused, now, are you?


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## ATACX GYM (May 5, 2012)

Chris Parker said:


> Er, I think you meant to post that in the Sword and Hammer thread, Ras... you're not getting confused, now, are you?



No, not confused. Observe the time stamps on this thread in question:


Today, 11:41 AM#17

*Chris Parker*

 





*Re: Atacx gym shaolin*
The evidence is your own videos and posts scattered throughout this forum and others, versus my posts on similar topics (the particulars of martial arts and so forth). You're not looking that good, and ducking the question like this just makes you look worse, Ras. I'm offering you a way out here.​With respect,
Chris Parker


Observe the time stamp of my response:


Today, 12:13 PM#18

*ATACX GYM*

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*Re: Atacx gym shaolin*







 Originally Posted by *Chris Parker*


The evidence is your own videos and posts scattered throughout this forum and others, versus my posts on similar topics (the particulars of martial arts and so forth). You're not looking that good, and ducking the question like this just makes you look worse, Ras. I'm offering you a way out here.



Thank you for the offer. But this exchange would be curtailed if you would offer video of what you are specifically referring to. If the evidence is in my own videos? Simply copy and paste the relevant videos. You have spent 30 minutes going back and forth over various threads of mine responding to this and that post. Surely a mere minute or two more to post the specific video you're referring to won't inconvenience you further       



That's more than 30 minutes.​


​


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## Chris Parker (May 5, 2012)

I get the timestamp, the point is that there was no request for video, my comment was that all of your videos (combined) show it, as do all your posts (combined), as much for what you don't say, and what you avoid answering, as well as your seeming inability to understand what I consider fairly basic, rudimentary questions for someone of your claimed training background. You have, however, been insisting that I repost the same videos that you posted in the Sword and Hammer thread over there, and the post of yours here seemed to be another call for the same thing.

In other words, your post here made no contextual sense, but would have in the other thread. So I thought you may be getting confused... the timestamps don't actually prove much in that regard, you understand.


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## Twin Fist (May 5, 2012)

and i have some ocean front proerty in arizona for sale too........./rollingeyes




ATACX GYM said:


> Black belts in: Shaolin Kempo, Taekwondo, Tang Soo Do, Hapkido, Judo, Kenpo Karate, Hung Gar [ black sash ] the equivalent of same [ coach or assistant coach rank ] in boxing, wrestling, Muay Thai, and I'm a Capoeira instructor too. Capoeira has cords, not belts. There's more, but you get the point.


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## Twin Fist (May 5, 2012)

just like all the other vids, 5 1/2 minutes of listening to his mouth, and 15 seconds of slow mo action against a compliant partner.

in other words

USELESS CRAP



ATACX GYM said:


> Did you forget that I hold a Black Belt in Shaolin Kempo as well? Here's my variant of Shaolin Kempo Combination 3. It's much more functional than the traditional version. I hope you enjoy.


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## ATACX GYM (May 5, 2012)

Twin Fist said:


> just like all the other vids, 5 1/2 minutes of listening to his mouth, and 15 seconds of slow mo action against a compliant partner.
> 
> in other words
> 
> USELESS CRAP



Feel free to post your uncraptacular videos.


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## ATACX GYM (May 5, 2012)

Chris Parker said:


> Please. I go back a while too, Ras. I was around when it all started, and again I ask what on earth that has to do with your understanding of the differences between arts, as you have yet to display any actual understanding whatsoever of anything beyond different combinations and sequences of movements.




You have not proven that any of the above assertions you make are factually correct. Prove yourself to be correct; otherwise, you merely have posted your opinion.


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## Twin Fist (May 5, 2012)

someone could cure cancer and this mother****er would claim to have done it 5 years earlier......


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## ATACX GYM (May 5, 2012)

Twin Fist said:


> someone could cure cancer and this mother****er would claim to have done it 5 years earlier......




I have impacted you so much--by merely posting on the internet--that you have changed your sig to carry my name, and you are trotting all over the web to find my threads. Thank you ,John, for the attention but...you're acting like you've been smitten with a man-crush. It's a bad look for you. And your attempts at wit? Merely prove that you're...ATTEMPTING wit. Please remember that you're nearly 20 years my senior and act and speak accordingly. Thanks.


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## Twin Fist (May 5, 2012)

i like to laugh, what can i sy, and i can always count on you for a laugh....lol

HOLD UP

Please remember that you're nearly 20 years my senior and act and speak accordingly. Thanks.


I am 45, if you are nearly 20 years younger than me that makes you 30 ish? yet ALL those blacks belts and high ranks by the age of 30? and meeting vic la Rouxe in 82, as you claimed to do, lets see, in 82 i was 15, so if you are nearly 20 years YOUNGER thanme, i just caught you in another lie. First you lied and said Vic was a color belt in 82 when he was in fact a 5th dan, now you are 20 years younger than me, so that would have put you at -5 years old in 82 when you CLAIM to have met Vic.........

there is no way this can all be true.

which is the lie?

mind you, i CAN find out how old you really are in like 5 minutes, so dont lie.


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## ATACX GYM (May 5, 2012)

Twin Fist said:


> i like to laugh, what can i sy, and i can always count on you for a laugh....lol
> 
> HOLD UP
> 
> ...




Holy CRAP.You're ONLY 45? Nope you're not nearly 20 years my senior. I'm actually feeling sad for you now. I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt...having seen your pic...


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## Twin Fist (May 5, 2012)

thats ok, i have felt sad for you for months now. such a sad little lost boy begging for aproval......


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## ATACX GYM (May 5, 2012)

Twin Fist said:


> thats ok, i have felt sad for you for months now. such a sad little lost boy begging for aproval......




Today, 04:13 PM#30

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[h=2]Re: Atacx gym shaolin[/h]
thats ok, i have felt sad for you for months now. such a sad little lost boy begging for aproval......​
Talking to Ras is like playing chess with a chicken. No matter what you say, all he does is knock over pieces, crap on the board and strut around like he won something.​**********************************************************************************************************************************************

You must clearly feel something for me. You changed your sig to keep my name close to you wherever you roam on the internet. Lolol.

Seriously though, John. If you hate me so much...why even take the time trot all over the net and hunt my threads from pillar to post just to drop grade school insults? For real now...most of that other stuff I was posting [ except for that post on KT about not wanting to go round and round with you ] about you was just me poking fun at you. Nothing legitimately serious on my part. And for real...why would you even waste your time commenting on my threads and stuff if I'm so beneath you and all of that other stuff that you say and apparently believe?

Man. If I'm so much trash? Keep away from me and stick to the classy threads that has no ATACX GYM in it.


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## Twin Fist (May 5, 2012)

cuz it is sooo easy to laugh at this crap.


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## Josh Oakley (May 5, 2012)

Regardless, Twin Fist, your conduct here is directly against the rules of Martialtalk and you know it.

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## Josh Oakley (May 5, 2012)

And to clear the mystery, Ras is 42, and did SKK at USSD. His version is an accurate portrayal of DM3 I. The 80's as far as I know. The takedown I know came later from what I understand.

I don't prefer the bladder shot myself either, and the ridgehand to the groin is similar to a modification by ... Jim Brassard, I think. I will check it when I get home.

Later in USSD they added a left check to the punching hand, though it isn't in the training DVD they give you.

And, sad to say, USSD doesn't really talk much about power generators specifically. 

So it's not really wrong as he was taught it. I don't generally like a street takedown where you purposely go to the ground yourself. That is not SKK in philosophy, and it's a bad idea. The potential of more opponents than you know of originally exists in Seattle. I would imagine it exists in Long Beach just as much. Take him down sure, but don't go with him. 

Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2


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## ATACX GYM (May 5, 2012)

Josh Oakley said:


> And to clear the mystery, Ras is 42, and did SKK at USSD. His version is an accurate portrayal of DM3 I. The 80's as far as I know. The takedown I know came later from what I understand.
> 
> I don't prefer the bladder shot myself either, and the ridgehand to the groin is similar to a modification by ... Jim Brassard, I think. I will check it when I get home.
> 
> ...



All of the foregoing is correct...including the time period from which my DM3 is derived. 

I like the bladder shot because

1. It's age and gender nuetral so it's an effective shot for anyone.

2. The look on the BG's face when you pop him there is sooo funny

3. It's more accessible than the groin and compromises the BG's balance by displace the hip girdle so he does the 'butt back cuz my nuts been smacked' dance.

The takedowns I show don't mandate that you go to the ground with the BG but you can if you so choose. Sometimes it's a good idea to follow the BG down and administer some righteous gnp.


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## Josh Oakley (May 5, 2012)

Ask any of the girls here; a groin shot is quite gender neutral as well. There's a great concentration of nerves in that area that WILL react if struck. And you get the nice bonus of impacting the pubic crest and the pubic symphsis.. which will ALSO displace the pelvis.

The bladder CAN be a good Target, but it requires the bladder to be full. And because of how far down it sits it is decently protected by the pelvic bone bone. Full or empty, it's a MUCH better Target for a knife than a fist. But even then, the better angle to attack the bladder is from below.

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## ATACX GYM (May 5, 2012)

Josh Oakley said:


> Ask any of the girls here; a groin shot is quite gender neutral as well. There's a great concentration of nerves in that area that WILL react if struck. And you get the nice bonus of impacting the pubic crest and the pubic symphsis.. which will ALSO displace the pelvis.
> 
> The bladder CAN be a good Target, but it requires the bladder to be full. And because of how far down it sits it is decently protected by the pelvic bone bone. Full or empty, it's a MUCH better Target for a knife than a fist. But even then, the better angle to attack the bladder is from below.
> 
> Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2




All of these are good points. Allow me to clarify a bit:

In my exprience, a full bladder is a very good target. What I mean is..a good hard punch or knee prefer or kick or [  some non-bodily weapon like a knife or bat if you can get it there ] to the bladder is a good way to ruin a BG's day too. And because the testes and the equivalent target is harder to access? I and a number of my students strike the area just below the belt all the way to the sausage area because it's generally easier to access than a direct testes or femal equivalent shot...plus it shoots the butt back--disrupting the BG's balance--so we CAN smack the testes with a follow-up shot should we wish.

But yeah...if you can smack them thar testes? Smack em! The better angle of attack IS from below imo. The bladder? Ahhh...kinda breaks even for me. Alot of my students prefer your way more and I'm cool with that. We work em both. 

And yeah...a knife is a better weapon for pretty much any target on the body. Lol.


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## jks9199 (May 5, 2012)

Folks, 
I appreciate that the last few posts have come back on track.  Let's keep it that way, OK.  

Please don't take that as a gentle reminder.  It's a demand, a directive, and a warning.

jks9199
Assistant Administrator


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## Twin Fist (May 5, 2012)

Fine.


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## Chris Parker (May 6, 2012)

ATACX GYM said:


> You have not proven that any of the above assertions you make are factually correct. Prove yourself to be correct; otherwise, you merely have posted your opinion.



Yeah, that's really the point I've been making, Ras. It is my opinion, which is all anything like this (critiques) can ever be, which is why your constant asking for "empirical" evidence, that things be "factually correct". This is the realm of opinion, Ras. And my opinion is based in your presentation and my reading of it.


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## punisher73 (May 7, 2012)

Here are some videos for comparision on the technique...

Jim Brassard's Combo #3





Joe Rebelo's Karazenpo Goshinjitsu #3 (precursor technique to SKK)





If you watch Master Rebelo's video, the history will show you how the attack was changed from Karazenpo's right cross where a punch to the bladder will fit, to the SKK stepthrough punch where the punch will not fit, and how the stepthrough attack did allow the takedown.


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## punisher73 (May 7, 2012)

Chris Parker said:


> Then counter my criticism, Ras. Explain how the mechanics, power source, philosophy etc are different for Shaolin Kempo versus your American Kempo. Explain how you aren't missing the basic tactics of the technique in your version.
> 
> In other words, just saying "you're wrong" without any backup isn't a very convincing argument from you. And I'm basing my assessment of your knowledge on a lot more than just this one clip.



From my limited understanding, SKK is an offshoot from various arts.  If you take the lineage back far enough, you will see a Kajukenpo influence.  If go more modern, and look at Nick Cerio, who probably added the most material before Villari, you will see a heavy japanese karate influence, so their power methods and execution are going to favor that.

Nick Cerio showing some basic SKK training (before he exchanged ideas with SGM Parker of American Kenpo and refined his style later on in his Nick Cerio's Kenpo, which has a more American Kenpo flavor to it).


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## ATACX GYM (May 7, 2012)

punisher73 said:


> Here are some videos for comparision on the technique...
> 
> Jim Brassard's Combo #3
> 
> ...




Thanks man! good find!


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## Grenadier (May 7, 2012)

*Admin's note:*

Thread closed.  

-Ronald Shin
-MT Assistant Administrator


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