# Backfists



## InvisibleFist (Mar 11, 2005)

Why doesn't Muay Thai use backfists?


----------



## OUMoose (Mar 11, 2005)

InvisibleFist said:
			
		

> Why doesn't Muay Thai use backfists?


My guess would be that it's a fairly weak strike compared to the more damaging ones like a cross or a hook, especially with full size boxing gloves on.  I could see where it would be similar in style to a stiff jab, but I would just assume to do the jab instead, as it's direct and sets the body for combinations. 

That's just personal preference, though.  YMMV.  

Hope that helps!


----------



## Infrazael (Mar 11, 2005)

The need to be on the recieving end of a spinning Gwa Choy InvisibleFist. . . . . ..  :uhyeah:


----------



## Hayabusarider (Mar 12, 2005)

Most likely because you can't see your opponent when your back is turned. We don't practice those or back round house kicks.
We do use a back fist after you block a shot. 
Example= Your opponent throws a left jab, you block it with a downward right, then up to their face with the back of your glove. More like an irritating jab than a power shot


----------



## KumaSan (Mar 13, 2005)

Once upon a time, I was taught that if you're in range for a back fist, you might as well make a step in and hit with the back elbow instead. I think that you'll find that the back elbow is much more devatsating than a back fist any day. Why bother with a back fist, I say.


----------



## OUMoose (Mar 14, 2005)

I guess my question to the initial poster is are we talking about a standard backfist from the front, or a spinning backfist?  I was under the assumption you were speaking of a standard backfist.  Just personal opinion, but I would never do a spinning backfist, because I don't feel comfortable turning my back on an opponent under any circumstances.



			
				KumaSan said:
			
		

> Once upon a time, I was taught that if you're in range for a back fist, you might as well make a step in and hit with the back elbow instead. I think that you'll find that the back elbow is much more devatsating than a back fist any day. Why bother with a back fist, I say.


I could see that, but in the same respect, if you're that close, why do a back elbow and cross your centerline up, when you could do a normal elbow (horizontal or vertical), keep your centerline open, and setup for another shot?  (Yes, I know that's a runon sentence...)


----------



## KumaSan (Mar 15, 2005)

I was thinking for more of a situation where your centerline is already compromised, like covering a recovery for a missed kick, while getting charged by the other guy. Or for engaging someone not directly in front of you. They're both kind of unlikely situations, but it never hurts to have the tools in the toolbox.


----------



## Kenpo_man (Jul 11, 2005)

A muay thai style roundhouse calls for full commitment. Thus, if you miss, you generally swing all the way around and should lift the other leg to block the potential counterkick. Real muay thai practitioners rarely throw the "flicky" style roundhouse seen in many japanese styles. You shouldn't need a backfist to recover from a missed roundhouse in that case.


----------



## Drag'n (Aug 2, 2005)

Basically backfists just dont have alot of power.OK for point fighting where you only have to touch your opponent, not hurt them. May as well use a jab. Just as fast, and more powerfull, if you put your hip into it.
Spinning backfists tend to leave your guard wide open if you miss, and sometimes off ballance too. A spinning elbow has more controll and just as much impact with a harder weapon.Although shorter range.
Sometimes a spinning move can work beautifully as a counter and catch your opponent by surprise.Not something you want to do too often.But as already said , good to have in your tool box.


----------



## Kenpo_man (Aug 7, 2005)

Drag'n said:
			
		

> Basically backfists just dont have alot of power.OK for point fighting where you only have to touch your opponent, not hurt them. May as well use a jab.


They aren't all that powerful but without gloves on the effects of a backfist to the temple are devastating. It is a good technique because the trajectory is usually unexpected. Admittedly, it isn't the best for kickboxing.


----------



## Kenpo_man (Aug 7, 2005)

Drag'n said:
			
		

> Basically backfists just dont have alot of power.OK for point fighting where you only have to touch your opponent, not hurt them. May as well use a jab.


It's true they aren't all that powerful but without gloves on the effects of a backfist to the temple are devastating. It's a good technique because it's hard to read the trajectory. For kickboxing it's only useful as a spinning backfist for the added power and as mentioned by Drag'n, turning your back is always a risk.


----------



## Kenpo_man (Aug 15, 2005)

KumaSan said:
			
		

> Once upon a time, I was taught that if you're in range for a back fist, you might as well make a step in and hit with the back elbow instead. I think that you'll find that the back elbow is much more devatsating than a back fist any day. Why bother with a back fist, I say.


I agree mostly but you do have to be that little bit closer to land the elbow. I just hit a guy who outweighs me by 60 lbs with a spinning backfist and sent him stumbling to the corner. It's hard enough that it's worth doing. They're really good if you can roll off of a front push kick and hit the guy while he's still on one foot. But those elbows . . .:mp5:


----------



## eyebeams (Aug 17, 2005)

You often see jabs that are backfist-like when the fighter has their hands down and clser to their center for whatever reason


----------



## BostonÜberAlles (Aug 25, 2005)

On a side note, Bas Rutten performed a beutiful spinning backhand after missing a thai style round kick when he faced Frank Shamrock for the "King of Pancrese" title.  Also, Genki Sudo in the Pride championships practices Muay Thai for his standup and uses spinning elbows and backfists quite regularly. In fact, he knocked out a koren martial arts medalist with a spinning elbow.


----------



## tradrockrat (Aug 29, 2005)

I'm guessing that you meant a plain ole' backfist, cause I've seen many Thai fighters throw a spinning back fist as part of a combo.

 I never trained in Muay Thai, but I trained many years in Thiang (Burmese boxing) which is very similar. We use a spinning backfist as well. It's not so dangerous to the attacker as one might expect. Yes your back is turned, but it is not meant to be your first technique. However, if you should throw a thrusting front kick to the stomach that pushes your opponent onto the rope or his heels, a spinning back fist might just finish the fight! Also, if you're in boxing range and you give the guy a good right cross that knocks him straight back, a spinning backfist is almost always perfectly set up...:ultracool

   Also, it can be thrown after a hard leg kick, but really, you want to continue your spin and protect your legs from a counter.

   A plain old backfist would in all likelyhood never get past your opponents gloves.  Too much stuff in the way.


----------

