# My First Praying Mantis Class



## Jade Tigress (Jul 18, 2006)

Well I am on cloud nine. Went to my first southern praying mantis class last night. It was soooo awesome. It felt soooo good to train again. It is quite a bit different than the Sil Lum I had been training. The stances were similar, just small tweaks I had to make. First we stretched and did some warm-up exercises. The push-ups kicked my butt...push-ups have always been the hardest exercise for me...and oh man they do some _major_ push-up exercises. It's gonna take me quite a while to get those done properly me thinks. And my arms are already quite developed. 

Next we did some stance training, and what was cool was that afterward the stances were combined into a form. Then I worked on some "walking" and then some sticky hand drills, but they don't call it sticky hands, I can't remember the term they use. Then we did another drill, again, can't remember the terms yet, but it was a rooting drill. I thought I might be sore this morning but I'm fine, just a feeling a little bit in the shoulders. 

Class was an hour and half long, and even though the kwoon was air-conditioned, I was absolutely dripping sweat. I loved it. So I signed up before leaving. Next class is tomorrow. I can't wait! Woohoo! I am so pumped I'm still on an adreneline high this morning. Yipee!!!! 

Special thanks to John for turning me on to the school (Riley says hi) and to Adam for the stance reassurance. :asian:


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## CrushingFist (Jul 18, 2006)

Hehe.. Congratulations your back and I'm glad you liked it. 

I remember when I was 14 and went to my first ever Kung Fu school/class. At Yee's Hung Ga, I was so excited that I would go everyday since it was unlimited class. :ultracool 

I can't wait to get things straight and start training somewhere this time for good.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Jul 18, 2006)

Congratulations and keep training!

Brian R. VanCise
www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com


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## arnisador (Jul 18, 2006)

Northern Preying Mantis has some great stuff. I find it very hard to deal with when I spar such a person, personally! Good luck.


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## Kensai (Jul 18, 2006)

Excellent, sounds like you had fun!!  

Take it you opted against doing that Wing Chun class in the end?


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## Flying Crane (Jul 18, 2006)

Very good, glad you found something that gets your blood boiling.  Keep at it.


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## 7starmantis (Jul 18, 2006)

Congrats!! Also, its Southern not Northern correct? 

Sounds like a good class...actually sounds alot liek some of ours! I'm so excited for you, glad you found something you enjoy! Keep us up to date.

7sm


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## arnisador (Jul 18, 2006)

Ah, Southern! I missed that. Fascinating stuff, and I wish I had some direct experience with it. One-knuckle punches and dragon back, right?


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## evenflow1121 (Jul 18, 2006)

Are you doing Chow Gar?  I ve always heard so many great things about Southern Mantis, congratulations.


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## Lisa (Jul 18, 2006)

Glad you enjoyed yourself Pam!


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## Xue Sheng (Jul 18, 2006)

Congratulations, glad to hear you training again.

One of the best fighters I ever had the honor to spar was a Mantis guy. I got beat real bad, but he an absolutely amazing fighter.


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## green meanie (Jul 18, 2006)

Congrats Pam! Glad to hear things went well for you.


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## Jade Tigress (Jul 19, 2006)

Thanks everyone. 



> Take it you opted against doing that Wing Chun class in the end?


Yes. The Southern Praying Mantis suits me very well. Exactly the kind of training I was hoping to find. I feel very blessed, after a long search, to have this available so close to home. 



> Also, its Southern not Northern correct?


Yes, Southern. 



			
				Jade Tigress said:
			
		

> I thought I might be sore this morning but I'm fine, just a feeling a little bit in the shoulders.


Ummmm....I spoke too soon. As the day wore on I got so sore. I'm still very sore this morning and have class again tonight. And I was in shape going in too. Man. It kicked my butt. I love it. I must have some masochist in me or something....

I soooo can't wait for class tonight!


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## Jade Tigress (Jul 21, 2006)

Second class was as awesome as the first. I am soooo hooked already. When Sifu was demonstrating some applications he moved very much like my Sifu in Sil Lum. There are some similarities though different terminology used, yet at the same time they are very different. 

Now I'm up for a long weekend til class on Monday. Isn't that crazy? It's all I can think about.


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## Xue Sheng (Jul 21, 2006)

Now that I know it is Southern Mantis I can say the guy I referred to previously was a Southern Mantis guy. 

And I am glad you like it.


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## 7starmantis (Jul 21, 2006)

JAde, I now exactly how you feel! I'm like that about my training and its been years!! I just get more nad more excited and fascinated by it as time goes by.

I'm so very happy for you that you found something you liek this much and is such a great fit for you. Now you and I will have to do some fighting to see the differences in northern vs southern! 

7sm


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## Jade Tigress (Jul 21, 2006)

7starmantis said:
			
		

> JAde, I now exactly how you feel! I'm like that about my training and its been years!! I just get more nad more excited and fascinated by it as time goes by.
> 
> I'm so very happy for you that you found something you liek this much and is such a great fit for you. Now you and I will have to do some fighting to see the differences in northern vs southern!
> 
> 7sm



That would be awesome but I"m gonna need a little time to catch up in training to you. No doubt I will kick your butt when the time comes. 

Yeah, I am really happy too. This is a perfect fit for me. It's really all I can think about. All I want to do is practice and train. And I have work that needs to be done! lol...So, when I can't practice or train, I think about it. 



			
				Xue Sheng said:
			
		

> Now that I know it is Southern Mantis I can say the guy I referred to previously was a Southern Mantis guy.
> 
> And I am glad you like it.



Cool Beans! (and like is an understatement...lol) Thank you.


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## CrushingFist (Jul 21, 2006)

I'm so glad too. 
I know how the feeling goes


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## mantis (Jul 21, 2006)

good to hear we got more peoples in CMA and mantis specificially
maybe we get more respect now in the MMA section haha (jk)

im glad you're trying mantis
im very interested to know the difference between our mantis and yours.  I will wait a couple of months until you start to get the hang of it and we'll talk again 
keep up the hard work!


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## Jade Tigress (Jul 21, 2006)

mantis said:
			
		

> good to hear we got more peoples in CMA and mantis specificially
> maybe we get more respect now in the MMA section haha (jk)
> 
> im glad you're trying mantis
> ...



Cool. Thanks. I take it you are studying Northern Mantis like Adam? How long have you been training? I would be interested in the differences too. I'll keep you posted as I learn more. It should make for an interesting discussion. :asian:


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## mantis (Jul 21, 2006)

Jade Tigress said:
			
		

> Cool. Thanks. I take it you are studying Northern Mantis like Adam? How long have you been training? I would be interested in the differences too. I'll keep you posted as I learn more. It should make for an interesting discussion. :asian:


Yes, in fact Adam and I both belong to the same northern mantis so  he is my older kung fu brother (si hing). 
I looked up southern mantis and I found contradicting information on it. Some say it is not related to northern mantis at all, and some say it came from the north when some monks migrated to the south. Anyway so far the high level characteristics are the same. but i would be interested in comparing the 'principles', and to see if you guys share the same keywords passed from 'wang lang' (the guy who invented mantis in shandong province)


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## Xue Sheng (Jul 21, 2006)

mantis said:
			
		

> Yes, in fact Adam and I both belong to the same northern mantis so he is my older kung fu brother (si hing).
> I looked up southern mantis and I found contradicting information on it. Some say it is not related to northern mantis at all, and some say it came from the north when some monks migrated to the south. Anyway so far the high level characteristics are the same. but i would be interested in comparing the 'principles', and to see if you guys share the same keywords passed from 'wang lang' (the guy who invented mantis in shandong province)


 
I have seen Northern mantis forms and I have seen Southern mantis forms as well (and from personal experience Southern mantis forms are much more painful to watch 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ). The only real difference I saw, in the forms, was it appeared that Northern mantis stances were a little lower and the strike range seemed longer where Southern stayed higher and the strikes seemed to be a bit closer. This however did not appear to phase the guy I spared, he beat the living daylights out of me... it was so cool.

One thing about Southern that amazed was that I was able to take him down, but that was not necessarily a good thing. the flurry of punches and kicks that came from the ground at me was absolutely amazing. I was much happier if he was standing up or at least until I got hit again..


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## mantis (Jul 22, 2006)

Yes i hear northern styles in general tend to have very low stances especially in forms.
in what way southern mantis forms are more painful to watch?  which norther styles have you seen?


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## Jonathan Randall (Jul 22, 2006)

*Glad it's working out for you!!!*
artyon: 
artyon: 
artyon:


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## Jade Tigress (Jul 22, 2006)

mantis said:
			
		

> Yes, in fact Adam and I both belong to the same northern mantis so  he is my older kung fu brother (si hing).
> I looked up southern mantis and I found contradicting information on it. Some say it is not related to northern mantis at all, and some say it came from the north when some monks migrated to the south. Anyway so far the high level characteristics are the same. but i would be interested in comparing the 'principles', and to see if you guys share the same keywords passed from 'wang lang' (the guy who invented mantis in shandong province)


I didn't know you and Adam trained together. That's cool.

You know, I looked up southern mantis too...I also saw that it said it is not related to northern mantis at all. I haven't read too much more on it yet. . I'd be interested in some of the other links you found because I didn't find anything yet that said it came from the north, though that migration would seem logical. 

Keywords...I have soooo much to learn. I don't understand any of the terms yet that my Sifu uses in class. What do you mean by keywords? Would that be the Chinese term for a specific technique? (I'm deducing that by the keywords thread in the Northern Styles forum). 

It is my understanding that northern and southern dialects are different. For example, the Sil Lum I studied was a southern Shaolin. Sil Lum = southern dialect, Cantonese, and Shaolin = northern dialect, Mandarin. 

I'm just making assumptions here. I'm guessing if keywords are chinese terms then there would be a difference in the term for similar techniques? Correct me if I'm wrong. I'm thinking out loud and trying to learn. I want all the info I can get to help me better understand this system I am dedicating myself to. 

Thank you. :asian:



			
				Xue Sheng said:
			
		

> The only real difference I saw, in the forms, was it appeared that Northern mantis stances were a little lower and the strike range seemed longer where Southern stayed higher and the strikes seemed to be a bit closer.


That seems to be a general, or common difference between Northern and Southern styles. Northern seems to fight in a longer range and Southern in a closer range. This was true in the Sil Lum I studied and has already been told to me in with the Southern Mantis. 

My Sil Lum Sifu taught us that the reason southern systems fight in closer ranges and northern in longer ranges is because of the terrain when the styles were developed. The northern countryside was open and hence made for long range fighting. The southern countryside (for lack of a better term) was close in, not open country. So they had to learn to fight in close quarters.

What I find interesting is that you observed the northern stances were lower than the southern stances, as there seems to be a generalization that southern styles incorporate lower stances. Thanks for posting your observations as I have not had the opportunity to see northern mantis yet.


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## mantis (Jul 22, 2006)

Jade Tigress said:
			
		

> I didn't know you and Adam trained together. That's cool.
> 
> You know, I looked up southern mantis too...I also saw that it said it is not related to northern mantis at all. I haven't read too much more on it yet. . I'd be interested in some of the other links you found because I didn't find anything yet that said it came from the north, though that migration would seem logical.
> 
> ...


I do not train with Adam in fact i have never met him.  But we share the same lineage except he trains in northern texas and i tran in southern california 

keywords are something like the 'principles' and they are not necessarily chinese.  You may or may not have them. I was asking because the 'wang lang' guy wrote those and passed them down and now every mantis system shares them.  I was wondering if souther mantis shares the same keywords too.  They are something like 'intercepting', 'sticking', 'making contact', 'leaning' and so on..... you will probably get into this when you're passed basic classes.
i am assuming you are starting from the beginning, correct? or did they count any previous experience you have?


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## Xue Sheng (Jul 22, 2006)

mantis said:
			
		

> in what way southern mantis forms are more painful to watch? which norther styles have you seen?


 
We were sparing and I was getting hit. 

However when I saw it later it was not as painful to watch. It was higher than the Northern mantis and appeared to be a bit quicker. But the speed could be more the practitioner than the style.

He was incredibly fast.

I was just watching the Northern mantis form from the sidelines; I was not sparing the Northern mantis person.

As to which Northern styles have I seen if you are asking specifically about the Mantis, I only know it was Northern mantis. 

If you are asking in General 
I have also seen and done Xingyi, Tai Chi, and bit of Bagua which are Northern

I have also seen Eagle claw done by a Northern trained fighter and Shaolin Long fist (I believe northern) and Yiquan.

And Jade Tigress

That is how it was explained to me as well by my first Sifu. The terrain is what makes the difference. As he put it there was a lot of open space in the North and a lot of closed in city streets in the South.


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## Jade Tigress (Jul 22, 2006)

mantis said:
			
		

> I do not train with Adam in fact i have never met him.  But we share the same lineage except he trains in northern texas and i tran in southern california



Gotcha. I misinterpreted that other post. Sorry 'bout that. Still cool you two train the same system. I never had anyone else on the board I could really discuss Sil Lum with so I'm excited to have others familiar with mantis, be it northern or southern, for discussion and most likely to answer a whole bunch of newb questions lol.


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## CrushingFist (Jul 25, 2006)

I can't wait to start training either and tell you guys about it =]


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## mantis (Jul 25, 2006)

CrushingFist said:
			
		

> I can't wait to start training either and tell you guys about it =]


are you going to start mantis any soon?
what do you study now?


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## Jade Tigress (Jul 25, 2006)

mantis said:
			
		

> are you going to start mantis any soon?
> what do you study now?



Ditto. We want details man. Start a thread and tell us about it.


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## CrushingFist (Jul 25, 2006)

mantis said:
			
		

> are you going to start mantis any soon?
> what do you study now?



Nah, I won't be taking mantis, I'm looking into an internal art. I'm still researching and stuff. It'll probably be Xingyi and Bagua first, then move into Taijiquan in a few more years. I was trying to find a My Jhong Law Horn school but none in NY. THere's Master Su Yu-Chang that teaches Tang Lang and stuff maybe I'll see how much I'm interested in it. Mainly I am more attractive to Wudang for the past 2months. 

But hey we are all studying CMA  

Currently I'm not training and havent trained since I was 16.


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## Jade Tigress (Jul 25, 2006)

CrushingFist said:
			
		

> Nah, I won't be taking mantis, I'm looking into an internal art. I'm still researching and stuff. It'll probably be Xingyi and Bagua first, then move into Taijiquan in a few more years. I was trying to find a My Jhong Law Horn school but none in NY. THere's Master Su Yu-Chang that teaches Tang Lang and stuff maybe I'll see how much I'm interested in it. Mainly I am more attractive to Wudang for the past 2months.
> 
> But hey we are all studying CMA
> 
> Currently I'm not training and havent trained since I was 16.



Well good luck in your search. Please keep up posted.


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## CrushingFist (Jul 25, 2006)

Jade Tigress said:
			
		

> Well good luck in your search. Please keep up posted.


 
Thanks for the luck ,, Will keep you folks posted every move


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## Xue Sheng (Jul 27, 2006)

Jade Tigress

I spilled a large cup of tea today all over a bookcase and had to pull out all of the books. I happened to find this book &#8220;The Complete Guide to Kung Fu Fighting Styles&#8221; which I have had for years and I also forgot about. As I was looking through it in a section called &#8220;Esoteric Southern Styles&#8221; I found a description of Southern Mantis, that from the point of view of someone that spared a Southern mantis person it made a lot of sense. 

The Complete Guide to Kung Fu Fighting Styles 
By Jane Hallander
ISBN: 0865680655

Southern Preying Mantis; The &#8220;Machine Gun&#8221; Striking System.

I am not sure if it is still in print. 

If you like I will type it up the Southern Mantis section and PM it to you when I get the chance.  

It apparently is not related to the Northern system, Southern mantis bears little or no resemblance to the insect. I did notice that the characteristic hand positions of the Northern mantis stance were not there in the Southern and if I had spared the Northern I may have noticed more differences and if I saw the Southern and the Northern in the same day I may have noticed differences as well. 

The book says basically the following

1) Southern Mantis has its origins in the Ming Dynasty 

2) It was taught only to members of the royal house

3) It was originally called Jew Gar (royal family Kung fu)

4) When Ming fell to the Manchu the fled to the Northern Shaolin Monastery

5) Manchu burn Northern Monastery

6) Ming Flee to Southern Monastery

7) Manchu Burn Southern Monastery (the Manchu were looking for Jew Gar practitioners)

8) Change name to Southern Mantis to protect family.

9) The surviving members of the Royal family became known as the Hakka minority. 
     Hakka means Northern Guests

10) Southern mantis use to be taught secretly to the Hakka only.

After rereading this section of the book, based on what I experienced I can tell you I agree with what she is saying.

It is quick direct and very effective. It do not give an opponent a chance to deliver more than one blow (I can tell you this is true) It attacks rapidly until the opponent falls down (or backs up &#8211; that&#8217;s what I did, damn he was fast with strikes)

Also punches come from just about anywhere, they do not draw back to punch and he could hit several times from roughly the same position with either hand with power in very short range. This makes sense as to why I was hit so much and did so much blocking.

And this line is exactly what I experienced

&#8220;The opponent must ward of a barrage of machine gun like blows.&#8221;


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## mantis (Jul 27, 2006)

Xue Sheng
Where are you located? i think it's about time I show you northern mantis.  
jk, but I'd be more than happy to invite you to mantis seminars if you're close.


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## Xue Sheng (Jul 27, 2006)

mantis said:
			
		

> Xue Sheng
> Where are you located? i think it's about time I show you northern mantis.
> jk, but I'd be more than happy to invite you to mantis seminars if you're close.


 
Aw your just lookin to beat me up like the Southern guy did.


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## mantis (Jul 27, 2006)

Xue Sheng said:
			
		

> Aw your just lookin to beat me up like the Southern guy did.


Oh no, not the idea at all.  I'm sure you can take me with a chi ball 
but I do like to show people how authentic mantis styles look like.


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## Jade Tigress (Jul 28, 2006)

Xue Sheng said:
			
		

> Jade Tigress
> 
> I spilled a large cup of tea today all over a bookcase and had to pull out all of the books. I happened to find this book The Complete Guide to Kung Fu Fighting Styles which I have had for years and I also forgot about. As I was looking through it in a section called Esoteric Southern Styles I found a description of Southern Mantis, that from the point of view of someone that spared a Southern mantis person it made a lot of sense.
> 
> ...




Thank you soooo much. Yes, if you wouldn't mind, please PM or e-mail the rest. What I have been learning the past 2 weeks is exactly what you have described, including some of the history I have been begun learning. 
:asian:


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## Xue Sheng (Jul 28, 2006)

mantis said:
			
		

> Oh no, not the idea at all. I'm sure you can take me with a chi ball
> but I do like to show people how authentic mantis styles look like.


 
Thats good cause I'm deadly with those kamayamaya type Chi ball attacks 

Thank You I would enjoy seeing it sometime but for all intensive purposes I live in a martial arts wilderness. Nothing round but squirrels, chipmunks and trees. That is why Sanda was so good when I trained, a lot of trees to beat up on.


Also I am not saying anything against Northern Mantis, all I saw of it was form and I liked what I saw. The Southern Mantis I saw much more of at much closer range and I was rather impressed as well as battered. (Didn&#8217;t have that Chi ball thing down back then  ) I use to spar a lot back then and he was by far the most impressive. Not the only one better than me, but definitely the most impressive, but as I said I never spared Northern Mantis.

But I should also add this guy may not be the typical CMA student you generally run into. He had trained Traditional Southern Mantis for greater than 12 years with a Southern Mantis teacher from Southern China and he had just got out of the Marines.


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## Jade Tigress (Jul 28, 2006)

Xue Sheng said:
			
		

> But I should also add this guy may not be the typical CMA student you generally run into. He had trained Traditional Southern Mantis for greater than 12 years with a Southern Mantis teacher from Southern China and he had just got out of the Marines.


That's typical south mantis technique though he had many years of training to perfect it. The style becomes useful quickly even to the new student though...(I was going to make a smart *** comment to mantis about whuppin his butt, but figured I better wait til I'm a little better..next week should be good...*runs*)


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## Xue Sheng (Jul 28, 2006)

Jade Tigress said:
			
		

> That's typical south mantis technique though he had many years of training to perfect it. The style becomes useful quickly even to the new student though...(I was going to make a smart *** comment to mantis about whuppin his butt, but figured I better wait til I'm a little better..next week should be good...*runs*)


 
Looks like we're heading for a Mantis smack down...ARE YOU READY TO RUMBLE 

Also I may have time to type that up today, not working today, injured reserve if you will, if so I will PM it to you.


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## 7starmantis (Jul 28, 2006)

Hey Hey Hey, I'm in on this too!!!


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## mantis (Jul 28, 2006)

Jade Tigress said:
			
		

> That's typical south mantis technique though he had many years of training to perfect it. The style becomes useful quickly even to the new student though...(I was going to make a smart *** comment to mantis about whuppin his butt, but figured I better wait til I'm a little better..next week should be good...*runs*)


no matter how hard you train you cannot kick my butt....  I'm with Adam  haha


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## mantis (Jul 28, 2006)

7starmantis said:
			
		

> Hey Hey Hey, I'm in on this too!!!


dude i thought ur on my side.  I may have to stick to lee kam wing side more hehe.

and man what happened to kicking my butt when you come down to irvine?


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## Jade Tigress (Jul 28, 2006)

7starmantis said:
			
		

> Hey Hey Hey, I'm in on this too!!!



Ohhh...you want me to kick your butt too?  heehee


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## Xue Sheng (Jul 28, 2006)

mantis said:
			
		

> dude i thought ur on my side. I may have to stick to lee kam wing side more hehe.
> 
> and man what happened to kicking my butt when you come down to irvine?


 
Not to worry, you can count on me and my Kamyamaya qi ball attack to be on your side.


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## Jade Tigress (Jul 28, 2006)

Xue Sheng said:
			
		

> Not to worry, you can count on me and my Kamyamaya qi ball attack to be on your side.




:xtrmshock   That is soooooo not fair.


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## Xue Sheng (Jul 28, 2006)

Jade Tigress said:
			
		

> :xtrmshock That is soooooo not fair.


 
Hey!! Youre the southern mantis person and I'm the guy that received the beating from a southern mantis person in the past. This is pay back for the beating and do you think I'm going to face you by myself.


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## Jade Tigress (Jul 28, 2006)

Xue Sheng said:
			
		

> Hey!! You&#8217;re the southern mantis person and I'm the guy that received the beating from a southern mantis person in the past. This is pay back for the beating and do you think I'm going to face you by myself.




But...but...but...

OK...FINE.


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## Xue Sheng (Jul 28, 2006)

Jade Tigress said:
			
		

> But...but...but...
> 
> OK...FINE.


 
HEY... Wait a minute... that was to easy... YOU just want to but another Southern mantis hurting on me don't you????? 

Might as well face facts and just say it.
I surrender already 

artyon:


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## mantis (Jul 28, 2006)

i just want to touch hands with someone who does not know mantis because they will definitely not cooperate.  I want to see where i am. 
btw, i just received my tiger hooks in the mail.  they look nice but i dont know what to do with them... haha any clue?


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## Jade Tigress (Jul 28, 2006)

Xue Sheng said:
			
		

> HEY... Wait a minute... that was to easy... YOU just want to but another Southern mantis hurting on me don't you?????
> 
> Might as well face facts and just say it&#8230;.
> I surrender already
> ...



You're damn straight I do!!! ...but those chi balls...I don't know man...I think I need you to throw a couple at mantis and 7* ... heehee 



			
				mantis said:
			
		

> i just want to touch hands with someone who does not know mantis because they will definitely not cooperate. I want to see where i am.
> btw, i just received my tiger hooks in the mail. they look nice but i dont know what to do with them... haha any clue?



Tiger hooks? Whoa..do tell.


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## Rich Parsons (Jul 28, 2006)

Jade Tigress said:
			
		

> You're damn straight I do!!! ...but those chi balls...I don't know man...I think I need you to throw a couple at mantis and 7* ... heehee
> 
> 
> 
> Tiger hooks? Whoa..do tell.



 My Special Maneuver is not that cool. :wah:


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## Xue Sheng (Jul 28, 2006)

Rich Parsons said:
			
		

> My Special Maneuver is not that cool. :wah:


 
Damn straight... You have to be the evil overlord of Xuefu before you can master th the Kamyayamaya Qi balls...that or Goku.



			
				mantis said:
			
		

> btw, i just received my tiger hooks in the mail. they look nice but i dont know what to do with them... haha any clue?



You mean these

http://www.wushudirect.co.uk/acatalog/Chinese_Hand_Weapons.html

I don't know how to use them but they sure look cool.


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## mantis (Jul 28, 2006)

Xue Sheng said:
			
		

> Damn straight... You have to be the evil overlord of Xuefu before you can master th the Kamyayamaya Qi balls...that or Goku.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


yep those tiger hooks.  I shipped them to my work address.  My coworkers were having fun with them today!
I was supposed to go to a seminar but couldnt make it.  I sent my brother instead.  I'll have him teach me the form and tell you guys about it.  I looked at that thing and i swear i cannot even imagine  how this thing can be used!!  embarrassing.

btw, i got your message.  I live 'diagonally' across the country from you (souther california).  I really hope to go to NY one day to check out KF schools. I'll ping you then


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## Xue Sheng (Jul 28, 2006)

mantis said:
			
		

> yep those tiger hooks. I shipped them to my work address. My coworkers were having fun with them today!
> I was supposed to go to a seminar but couldnt make it. I sent my brother instead. I'll have him teach me the form and tell you guys about it. I looked at that thing and i swear i cannot even imagine how this thing can be used!! embarrassing.
> 
> btw, i got your message. I live 'diagonally' across the country from you (souther california). I really hope to go to NY one day to check out KF schools. I'll ping you then


 
I once saw a guy do a form with them, but I was just watching and all I can remember is thinking I am WAY to close to this. 

let me know if you get to NY.


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## Cryozombie (Jul 28, 2006)

Heh, I'm glad you like it.

I'll be seeing Riley on Sunday at the services for my sister, Ill be sure to ask him how you are doin.

LOL.



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## 7starmantis (Jul 29, 2006)

Jade Tigress said:
			
		

> You're damn straight I do!!! ...but those chi balls...I don't know man...I think I need you to throw a couple at mantis and 7* ... heehee


 HAH!! I eat chi balls for breakfast!! Or maybe that was cheesy poofs...not quite sure.



			
				mantis said:
			
		

> yep those tiger hooks.  I shipped them to my work address.  My coworkers were having fun with them today!
> I was supposed to go to a seminar but couldnt make it. I sent my brother instead. I'll have him teach me the form and tell you guys about it. I looked at that thing and i swear i cannot even imagine how this thing can be used!! embarrassing.


 Oh yeah, I just finished learning a set with them. Its pretty tough to keep from hurting yourself! There is of course alot of hooking limbs and such. Its pretty cool, not one of my favorites, but its nice. I'm not sure if your Sifu teaches that weapon or not. 

7sm


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## mantis (Jul 29, 2006)

7starmantis said:
			
		

> HAH!! I eat chi balls for breakfast!! Or maybe that was cheesy poofs...not quite sure.
> 
> Oh yeah, I just finished learning a set with them. Its pretty tough to keep from hurting yourself! There is of course alot of hooking limbs and such. Its pretty cool, not one of my favorites, but its nice. I'm not sure if your Sifu teaches that weapon or not.
> 
> 7sm


and yes, it's cheese balls. same sing 

we had a tiger hooks seminar night.  I couldnt go though.  I have to go to chi sau this morning and learn it from whoever is there to review it.  I hear it's a lot of difficult maneuvers and transitions. 
but man, when i saw this weapon i was like who the heck invented that, he must be a genius!


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## Jade Tigress (Jul 30, 2006)

Technopunk said:
			
		

> Heh, I'm glad you like it.
> 
> I'll be seeing Riley on Sunday at the services for my sister, Ill be sure to ask him how you are doin.
> 
> ...


Yeah, yeah, you were right. 

Be sure to pass along the feedback k? 



			
				7starmantis said:
			
		

> HAH!! I eat chi balls for breakfast!! Or maybe that was cheesy poofs...not quite sure.


I like the crunchy chi balls. 



			
				mantis said:
			
		

> we had a tiger hooks seminar night. I couldnt go though. I have to go to chi sau this morning and learn it from whoever is there to review it. I hear it's a lot of difficult maneuvers and transitions.
> but man, when i saw this weapon i was like who the heck invented that, he must be a genius!


Bummer you couldn't make it to the seminar. Once you start learning the weapon you _must_ post a video for us. 

Not only a genius weapon inventor, but c'mon, how cool is that! :supcool:


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## Cryozombie (Jul 31, 2006)

Jade Tigress said:
			
		

> Yeah, yeah, you were right.
> 
> Be sure to pass along the feedback k?


 
He didnt have anything bad to say.

You better come to the Pig Roast on Saturday!


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## Jade Tigress (Jul 31, 2006)

Technopunk said:
			
		

> He didnt have anything bad to say.
> 
> You better come to the Pig Roast on Saturday!



Well that's good to know! lol

I plan on being there. Looking forward to it.


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## Xue Sheng (Aug 2, 2006)

So how did you're second and possibly third Mantis class(es) go?


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## Jade Tigress (Aug 3, 2006)

Xue Sheng said:
			
		

> So how did you're second and possibly third Mantis class(es) go?


Class has been fantastic. All my classes are the same so far because I'm learning the basics, getting things into muscle memory by repetition after repetition.

Doing alot of stance, rooting, and strength training. I was already in good shape and my arms and shoulders are building up even more. I hope I don't get too bulky! I am always eager for class and practice as much as I can at home. I also have to study the history for testing so I am trying to learn that too. Sifu gave me the info I need to know. Now I just have to get it into *brain memory* lol. 

Thanks for asking.


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## Xue Sheng (Aug 3, 2006)

Jade Tigress said:
			
		

> Class has been fantastic. All my classes are the same so far because I'm learning the basics, getting things into muscle memory by repetition after repetition.
> 
> Doing alot of stance, rooting, and strength training. I was already in good shape and my arms and shoulders are building up even more. I hope I don't get too bulky! I am always eager for class and practice as much as I can at home. I also have to study the history for testing so I am trying to learn that too. Sifu gave me the info I need to know. Now I just have to get it into *brain memory* lol.
> 
> Thanks for asking.


 
Cool

I am glad to hear it is going well.


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## mantis (Aug 3, 2006)

Jade Tigress said:
			
		

> Class has been fantastic. All my classes are the same so far because I'm learning the basics, getting things into muscle memory by repetition after repetition.
> 
> Doing alot of stance, rooting, and strength training. I was already in good shape and my arms and shoulders are building up even more. I hope I don't get too bulky! I am always eager for class and practice as much as I can at home. I also have to study the history for testing so I am trying to learn that too. Sifu gave me the info I need to know. Now I just have to get it into *brain memory* lol.
> 
> Thanks for asking.


so when u starting to learn and eventually tape for us some forms?


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## 7starmantis (Aug 3, 2006)

Feel free to use this thread as a place to practice posting history and such you are having to learn. Would be interesting to read.

7sm


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## Xue Sheng (Aug 3, 2006)

7starmantis said:
			
		

> Feel free to use this thread as a place to practice posting history and such you are having to learn. Would be interesting to read.
> 
> 7sm


 
Yes please do, I too would be very interested.


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## Jade Tigress (Aug 4, 2006)

Okie Doke..here goes.

In the mid 1700's of the Qing Dynasty in Kwong Sai province in southern China, a Shaolin monk named Som Dot became fascinated with the praying mantis in the bamboo forest called Jook Lum. Skilled in the Kung Fu styles of other monasteries, Som adopted the deadly grace of the insect and thus began Kwong Sai Jook Lum (Southern Praying Mantis).

In the 1800's, a monastic Zen Buddhist monk named Lee Siem See, from the Kwong Sai province Jook Lum Temple, and disciple under Som Dot and a Taoist monk named Huang, both added the essence of Wundang internal skill to Som Dot's system, which later became known as Mui Far (plum flower) Tong Long, by the Hakka. Lee Siem See carried this syle to South China, Canton province, where he called it Som Dot Jook Lum Temple Praying Mantis Kung Fu. He also took a youth named Chung Yel Jung, from the Wai Yung province of south China, back to the Jook Lum Temple to be trained.

In 1890, Chung Yel Jung opened a medicine shop and a Kung Fu school, called Kwong Sai Jook Lum Temple Tong Long Pai, in his native Hakka province of Wai Yung where it was said he taught the art of Shaolin Som Dot and his teacher was Lee Siem See. The school of Chung Yel Jung soon got the attention and popularity from the Hakka people of Wai Yung for it's powerful and deadly Kung Fu. A second school was to open in Hong Kong in the early part of the 1900's and the deadly Jook Lum Mantis Boxing was taught by his student, Wong Yook Kong. This art was then restricted to only the Hakka people of China and was still referred to as Hakka Kuen.

In the 1920's the old monk, Lee Siem See came down to Hong Kong to oversee the rebuilding of the Jook Lum Temple. During the temple building, the monk took one of Chung Yel Jung's youngest students, named Lum Wing Fei (ordained Lum Sang), to help rebuild the temple. Lee Siem See took on Lum Sang as his companion and furthered his training in the art. Lum Sang did not reutrn to Chung Yel Jung until seven years later.

In the 1930's, a third school of Kwong Sai Jook Lum was opened in Kwonloon. This school was taught by Sifu Lum Sang at the age of 26. He soon gained the nickname "Little Monkey" because of his stature and the deadly abilities of his fighting skill. 

During the Chinese-Japanese War in the 1930's, the extrememly old monk Lee Siem See had some down to Hong Kong again, this time to unite his students, Chung Yel Jung and Lum Sang. Lee Siem See knew Hong Kong would not be a safe place if World War II broke out. So, he ordered Lum Sang to take the responsibility of Som Dot's Kung Fu system, and the property deed of the Jook Lum Temple, and instructed him to run overseas.

Soon Hong Kong was occupied by the Japanese, and Chung Yel Jung and his top student, Wong Yook Kong, were ordered back to their native Wai Yung province to fight in the Japanese War. Lee Siem See headed to the peninsula of Macao, and Lum Sang's faith carried him to Liverpool, England, where he began to teach this system of Kung Fu to the Hakka people. 

With WWII in motion, the Germans bombed England and Sifu Lum Sang sought refuge for his life aboard a ship, only to be bombed in high seas and then rescued by an American warship. Months later, this warship needed some repairs and docked in Virginia, where Sifu Lum Sang was deported. Later he became a citizen of the United States. Subsequently, Sifu Lum Sang resided in New York City, Chinatown.

In 1942, Sifu Lum Sang taught his Kung Fu in Chinatown's Hakka Chinese Association. In his later years, before retiring in 1968 from teaching, he taught in the New York City Chinese Free Mason Association.

There are still only a handful of Lum Sang's disciples throughout the world teaching this traditional art of self-defense Kung Fu to the general public. With a history of about 300 plus years, Kwong Sai Jook Lum Gee Tong Long Pai has been a carefully guarded system of traditions and secrecy.

However, within that 300 plus years, additional branches have immerged from the original Jook Lum system. These branches are Chu Gar, and Chow Gar.


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## TenTigers (Sep 27, 2006)

Hey Jade Tigress, I also am studying Kwong Sai Jook Lum Ji Nam Tong Long Pai here in NYC. Brace yourself-you are in for one hell of a ride. I have been studying MA for over thirty years and this system is kicking my butt, both physically and mentally, but it is the best training I have ever had.


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## Jade Tigress (Sep 27, 2006)

TenTigers said:


> Hey Jade Tigress, I also am studying Kwong Sai Jook Lum Ji Nam Tong Long Pai here in NYC. Brace yourself-you are in for one hell of a ride. I have been studying MA for over thirty years and this system is kicking my butt, both physically and mentally, but it is the best training I have ever had.



Cool! Man, it really does kick your butt too. In the past, if I have been a little under the weather, I still managed to get through training. I'd just take it a bit easy is all. Well, Monday I woke up and was feeling really tired all day, just not up to par, but I went to class as usual. Well, I could barely get through the warm-up. It is always brutal but this time my whole body was shaking from the exertion. I ended up leaving an hour into training. It is definitely the most intense thing I've done both physically and mentally. 

How long have you been training this style? Tell about your training so far, and welcome to Martial Talk!


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## TenTigers (Sep 27, 2006)

Ive been in it for almost two years, working on Sam Bo Gin,two-man form, and drills, drills, drills. Getting the "Mantis Body" is key. SBG teaches the body, the power, and the breath. Learning the breathing was at times almost like drowning, until my body adjusted. Getting the power out took more mental than physical work. Getting up at 4am to do my form was probably the easiest part.


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## Jade Tigress (Sep 28, 2006)

TenTigers said:


> Ive been in it for almost two years, working on Sam Bo Gin,two-man form, and drills, drills, drills. Getting the "Mantis Body" is key. SBG teaches the body, the power, and the breath. Learning the breathing was at times almost like drowning, until my body adjusted. Getting the power out took more mental than physical work. Getting up at 4am to do my form was probably the easiest part.



Man, I can't wait to get to the 2 man forms and drills. Right now I am learning basics, basics, basics. It will pay off for sure. I am an impatient thing though! lol 

Does your school have a website? Who is your Sifu?


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## TenTigers (Sep 28, 2006)

My Sifu does not teach openly, and maintains his privacy.He only teaches about five people. He studied for 40 years under one of Lam Wing-Fei's disciples, still does-and even trained with the old man himself. 
 Jook Lum is a very small world, and some of these guys simply don't want to get involved in the politics, so they stay out of the limelight. But they're out there.


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## Jade Tigress (Sep 28, 2006)

TenTigers said:


> My Sifu does not teach openly, and maintains his privacy.He only teaches about five people. He studied for 40 years under one of Lam Wing-Fei's disciples, still does-and even trained with the old man himself.
> Jook Lum is a very small world, and some of these guys simply don't want to get involved in the politics, so they stay out of the limelight. But they're out there.



I understand. Glad you are one of the lucky few. :asian:


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## Jade Tigress (Oct 12, 2006)

Testing Saturday for my white sash. Wish me luck!


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## Yeti (Oct 17, 2006)

Good luck on your test. I'm sure you'll do great.
I'm glad that you've found a school that you can be happy in - it makes all the difference in the world. I'm also very glad that your son is doing so well. That puts a big smile on my face.


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## Jade Tigress (Oct 17, 2006)

Yeti said:


> Good luck on your test. I'm sure you'll do great.
> I'm glad that you've found a school that you can be happy in - it makes all the difference in the world. I'm also very glad that your son is doing so well. That puts a big smile on my face.



Thank you Yeti. I certainly have been very fortunate in my training. :asian:


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## Jade Tigress (Oct 24, 2006)

I passed! Woohoo! Was nervous as hell but made it. heh. Got my sash and certificate yesterday. :asian:
Now I get to learn new stuff.


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## Xue Sheng (Oct 24, 2006)

Jade Tigress said:


> I passed! Woohoo! Was nervous as hell but made it. heh. Got my sash and certificate yesterday. :asian:
> Now I get to learn new stuff.


 
Congratulations
artyon: artyon:


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## exile (Oct 24, 2006)

Jade Tigress said:


> I passed! Woohoo! Was nervous as hell but made it. heh. Got my sash and certificate yesterday. :asian:
> Now I get to learn new stuff.



Hey, Pam, that's _*great*_---well done!! Now on to the next phase, eh?


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## Jade Tigress (Oct 25, 2006)

Thank you! 

Yep...learning new stuff is da bomb!


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## exile (Oct 25, 2006)

Jade Tigress said:


> Thank you!
> 
> Yep...learning new stuff is da bomb!



Just out of curiosity... what is the rank system in the Praying Mantis system like? I have the impression that it's quite different from that in the karate-based MAs [?]


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## Jade Tigress (Oct 25, 2006)

exile said:


> Just out of curiosity... what is the rank system in the Praying Mantis system like? I have the impression that it's quite different from that in the karate-based MAs [?]



We actually start with a black cord and have to test for white sash, which is new to me. We really have to have the basics down solid, in addition to knowing the history, and being able to demonstrate applications (vs. performing a technique.) It's challenging and I love it. It motivates me. 

I'll try to remember the ranking correctly, next there is advanced white, then yellow/advanced, green/advanced, blue/advanced,  red/advanced, black. 

Which is actually very similar to my previous style which was a different kung fu system. That ranking went: white, yellow, green, blue, brown, and black. Red was for Sifu's, and we started with a white sash, first test was for yellow. It took me 2 years to reach green.


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## exile (Oct 25, 2006)

Jade Tigress said:


> We actually start with a black cord and have to test for white sash, which is new to me. We really have to have the basics down solid, in addition to knowing the history, and being able to demonstrate applications (vs. performing a technique.) It's challenging and I love it. It motivates me.



That sounds like my idea of a really good curriculum. You struck gold there, Pam.



Jade Tigress said:


> I'll try to remember the ranking correctly, next there is advanced white, then yellow/advanced, green/advanced, blue/advanced, brown/advanced, red/advanced, black.



OK, not so different then. It was the advancement _to white_ that threw me. You get so ingrained in the white = total novice coding of rank.



Jade Tigress said:


> Which is actually very similar to my previous style which was a different kung fu system. That ranking went: white, yellow, green, blue, brown, and black. Red was for Sifu's, and we started with a white sash, first test was for yellow. It took me 2 years to reach green.



Very similar to my TKD dojang system... but they clearly were in no rush to get their students up the ladder. Good for them! 

Anyway, I think it's really outstanding both that you've already begun the advancement process in your new school and that the school seems to have such a good, complete take on the curriculum.


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## Jade Tigress (Oct 26, 2006)

exile said:


> That sounds like my idea of a really good curriculum. You struck gold there, Pam.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks. I feel like I've struck gold too.


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## Carol (Oct 26, 2006)

Jade Tigress said:


> Thanks. I feel like I've struck gold too.


 
That is so awesome Jade!!  Finding the right school is a precious thing indeed.  

And congrats on your sash!!!!  YAY!!!  :boing2:


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