# Moved from the PR-24 to a straight baton.



## Hudson69 (Jan 21, 2010)

Just got the new piece of equipment and have to say it fits the belt better and seems simpler to use......

Any experience with either one of these for comment?


----------



## Gordon Nore (Jan 21, 2010)

Hudson69 said:


> Just got the new piece of equipment and have to say it fits the belt better and seems simpler to use......
> 
> Any experience with either one of these for comment?



Indirectly, through police officers I've spoken to. The PR-24 was introduced in the Toronto Police Service in the early eighties and abandoned before 2000, I think. Today constables carry an expandable baton -- only officers with riot training carry a regular straight one.

I've heard a couple of explanations about why the PR-24 bit the dust. One was a lack of training, thus it was just an expensive impact weapon with an extra handle on it. Another officer I spoke to last year, a veteran of many years, said he found the baton too light -- he found that it bounced if he was hitting a hard object, like breaking a lock I suppose.

What's your new baton like? Is it hollow? What's the weight?


----------



## seasoned (Jan 21, 2010)

As a Constable I carry an expandable baton. From a martial arts perspective I train Okinawan GoJu which incorporates the tonfa as an Okinawan weapon. The tonfa looks much like the PR-24 and takes more practice and is more cumbersome. When you mention the straight baton, are you talking solid or expandable? I find the expandable baton to be a valuable tool that works well as is, or at full length. Once it is out and fully deployed, it is very convincing, and hurts like hell when used per SOP.


----------



## Drac (Jan 21, 2010)

I have taught and carried both batons..While the straight baton is easier to carry on your belt, I personally believe that you can do a lot more with the PR-24..Even when every officer I know was going with the expandable straight baton, I prefered the expandable PR-24..Its just a personal choice..


----------



## Brian R. VanCise (Jan 21, 2010)

I think the PR-24 is very effective if you know what you are doing and how to handle the tool correctly.  However, it is more complicated that a straight baton.  Personally most officer's I know prefer an expandable baton simply because of its convenience of carry.  However, almost all of them would say that a straight baton (non expandable) is simpler and probably more effective to use! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 (but they are a pain to move around and carry)


----------



## jks9199 (Jan 22, 2010)

Drac said:


> I have taught and carried both batons..While the straight baton is easier to carry on your belt, I personally believe that you can do a lot more with the PR-24..Even when every officer I know was going with the expandable straight baton, I prefered the expandable PR-24..Its just a personal choice..


I disagree, Drac.  Just about anything you can do with a side handle baton, you can do with a straight stick.  And a few things that you can't do with the side handle very easily...  

The one advantage the side handle baton has is that, used properly, it can generate tremendous force with the rotational swing.

Oh, and there's always the TJ Hooker flying baton take down...


----------



## Drac (Jan 22, 2010)

Brian R. VanCise said:


> I think the PR-24 is very effective if you know what you are doing and how to handle the tool correctly. However, it is more complicated that a straight baton


 
I agree..You do need to PRACTICE with the PR-24 as you would with any baton..



jks9199 said:


> I disagree, Drac. Just about anything you can do with a side handle baton, you can do with a straight stick. And a few things that you can't do with the side handle very easily...
> 
> The one advantage the side handle baton has is that, used properly, it can generate tremendous force with the rotational swing.


 
I must disagree with you JKS..Blocking with the PR-24 is far easier than with a straight baton as your hand is protected ( somewhat) by the baton shaft and I believe that grip on the short knob allows the blocks to be more effective..



jks9199 said:


> Oh, and there's always the TJ Hooker flying baton take down...


 
LOL..I forgot about that being shown in the opening sequence of that show..


----------



## Drac (Jan 22, 2010)

*Funny Story Time:* When exiting your cruiser you took your PR from the seat next to you and placed it in your carrier ..A good friend of mine was a PR instructor and his skill with it was legendary, and most of the bad boys knew him on sight..He was able to throw the baton into the carrier as he walked...

So one day he responds to a group of teens( actually males in their 20's) loitering in front of a story, he pulls up and exits his cruiser and starts approaching the teens..Without looking taking his eyes off the subjects he goes to throw the baton into its carries, and *he misses* and it goes clattering down the road..

He doesnt stop to pick it up,he just puts on his " game face" approaches the biggest one and says "I'm not gonna need that am I"??? "No Sir", was the answer and they departed..


----------



## Hudson69 (Feb 10, 2010)

Gordon Nore said:


> Indirectly, through police officers I've spoken to. The PR-24 was introduced in the Toronto Police Service in the early eighties and abandoned before 2000, I think. Today constables carry an expandable baton -- only officers with riot training carry a regular straight one.
> 
> I've heard a couple of explanations about why the PR-24 bit the dust. One was a lack of training, thus it was just an expensive impact weapon with an extra handle on it. Another officer I spoke to last year, a veteran of many years, said he found the baton too light -- he found that it bounced if he was hitting a hard object, like breaking a lock I suppose.
> 
> What's your new baton like? Is it hollow? What's the weight?


 
The new baton is hollow but definitely has some mass too it, probably twice the weight of the old PR-24.  I will agree with the comments on the PR-24 as being too light as well.  My primary problem with it was the side handle; I dont have much realestate on my duty belt so the side handle really got in the way.

P.S. have used it and it is a great tool (makes a heck of a door knocker as well)


----------



## Hudson69 (Feb 10, 2010)

seasoned said:


> As a Constable I carry an expandable baton. From a martial arts perspective I train Okinawan GoJu which incorporates the tonfa as an Okinawan weapon. The tonfa looks much like the PR-24 and takes more practice and is more cumbersome. When you mention the straight baton, are you talking solid or expandable? I find the expandable baton to be a valuable tool that works well as is, or at full length. Once it is out and fully deployed, it is very convincing, and hurts like hell when used per SOP.


 
When we got the tasers the PR's went in the trunk until a crowd control or riot situation breaks out (hopefully this will not happen) because there wasn't enough room on most belts.  The new MEB (Manodnok Expandable Baton) is expandable and more user friendly.

To address another post about personal preference and more uses I agree to both.  I hope that use/carry of a baton at my agency will be personal preference and I think that the PR with it's side handle makes it more versatile but the problem is that enhanced versatility requires practice.  Anyone here who is in law enforcement knows that probably 75-90% of officers are going to learn the basics, keep it simple and carry on from there. Investing the time in getting good at locks and holds with the PR is not going to be on their list of things to do, the PR is simply going to be a baton with a side handle that they can swing two handed and allows easier blocking which is why (in my humble opinion) that the straight, expandable baton, is better for law enforcement/military because of its simple "club" like appeal.

I like the PR but it is a too complicated a "club" for LEO/military unless the agency/branch is willing to really invest the time into the training and quite frankly I have never had to use my PR in away that the baton would not have been just as adequate and as easy to set up.

My .02 is that the straight baton is a better tool due to being a simpler tool based off of the amount of time it takes to train (I am now an instructor) and how often and how it will be employed.


----------



## Drac (Feb 10, 2010)

Hudson69 said:


> The new MEB (Manodnok Expandable Baton) is expandable and more user friendly.


 
I carried the MEB on my duty rig once we were issued tazers..I will always like the old PR-24...


----------

