# Why can't we protect ourselves?



## Lisa (Jun 28, 2008)

Excellent article in the Winnipeg Sun.  Thought I would share.



> Events in the U.S. and Toronto highlight differences between our two countries on firearms.
> 
> 
> As Toronto city council bans shooting clubs within city limits, the U.S. Supreme Court issues a ruling validating private gun ownership as constitutionally protected , overruling a restrictive D.C. law banning handguns. Canadians have an interesting relationship with guns. Canada is home to millions of firearms and our level of gun ownership of 22% is close to France and Sweden, yet we speak about them with terror and pretend guns are something only Americans own.



FULL STORY


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## MA-Caver (Jun 28, 2008)

> Canada has a problem with the idea of weapons for self-defence.


 With millions of guns in the country (overall) you'd think that this wouldn't be the case. Ok food procurement and protection from non-human threats in the rural areas (isn't that self defense??) but it sounds like Canadians are against using a weapon or a firearm in particular against another human being, or at least against the idea of it. Well that's all fine and good but I'm sure they're aware that there are those who do not have such compunctions? What do you do about those people? 
I think the quoted line could use a bit more clarification if you're able please.


edit: Took me a while to read the article in full... got distracted by the SUNshine girl... :uhyeah:


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## sgtmac_46 (Jun 29, 2008)

MA-Caver said:


> With millions of guns in the country (overall) you'd think that this wouldn't be the case. Ok food procurement and protection from non-human threats in the rural areas (isn't that self defense??) but it sounds like Canadians are against using a weapon or a firearm in particular against another human being, or at least against the idea of it. Well that's all fine and good but I'm sure they're aware that there are those who do not have such compunctions? What do you do about those people?
> I think the quoted line could use a bit more clarification if you're able please.
> 
> 
> edit: Took me a while to read the article in full... got distracted by the SUNshine girl... :uhyeah:


 We Americans are unique in some aspects.....we are a more individualist country and distrust government more than any developed country on the planet.....Austrailia might be a distant second.  

Our view on such things is truly unique and we don't realize that much of the rest of the world is simply more passive in nature and more collectivist than we are as a whole.  Many of us simply don't trust government to protect us.....and for good reason.

The late great Col. Jeff Cooper wrote an wonderful essay, in his excellent collection of essays entitled 'Fireworks', entitled 'The Deadly American' where he explores some of the reasons for this difference.  Anyone interested in the subject should check it out....

Actually, there is a sample on Amazon that shows the first part of the essay.....it's worth a read, and I recommend buying the rest of the book or digging up a loaner copy. http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0873649966/ref=sib_dp_ptu#reader-link


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## Sukerkin (Jun 29, 2008)

MA-Caver said:


> edit: Took me a while to read the article in full... got distracted by the SUNshine girl... :uhyeah:


 
You are not alone :lol:.

Is this an issue in Canada that is across the country?  Or are there differences between the West and the East?

When I was in Calgary a few years ago (work related but at least it got me three weeks over there ), chatting with the staff of the company we were training at, revealed a more relaxed view on guns and their use than the article would suggest.


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## sgtmac_46 (Jun 29, 2008)

Sukerkin said:


> You are not alone :lol:.
> 
> Is this an issue in Canada that is across the country? Or are there differences between the West and the East?
> 
> When I was in Calgary a few years ago (work related but at least it got me three weeks over there ), chatting with the staff of the company we were training at, revealed a more relaxed view on guns and their use than the article would suggest.


 I'd say you'll find a more relaxed view on guns and their use in a rural setting versus an urban one, and of course western Canada versus eastern.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Jun 29, 2008)

Great article Lisa and it is important to note that their is a differance between rural canada and urban canada just as their is a differance between urban america and rural america.  In rural america most people have guns for hunting and yes some have them for self protection.  In urban america not as many people will be going hunting so firearms are then more for protection. (though there will be some that go hunting)  You see  in many ways Canada and the United States are very, very similar.

Americanphobia was printed right at the end?  Interesting because I like canadians and do not have canadianphobia.  Most of the canadians that I know also do not have americanphobia. :idunno: (heck quite a few of them live here)


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## Lisa (Jun 29, 2008)

If you ask a lot of western Canadians they don't equate their Canada with the Canada of the East.  Seems there is an  imaginary line somewhere east of Winnipeg past the Ontario border.  Our democratic system is based on population.  The more dense the population the more seats in the house of commons an area has.  That being said, the east controls the majority, so what they say kinda goes.

Toronto has had some real serious gang related problems and serious problems with violent gun crimes.  Unfortunately they believe that to solve the problem you need to get rid of the guns instead of punish the users of the gun crimes.  I really don't see it working but I guess desperate times call for...well you get the picture.


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## Grenadier (Jun 29, 2008)

Brian R. VanCise said:
			
		

> Americanphobia was printed right at the end? Interesting because I like canadians and do not have canadianphobia. Most of the canadians that I know also do not have americanphobia. :idunno: (heck quite a few of them live here)


 
Quite true, but unfortunately, those who yell the loudest are often times heard more predominantly than the silent majority.  When the silent majority doesn't speak up, that's when the outspoken folks get their way by default.


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## Sukerkin (Jun 29, 2008)

As a stand alone point, that last sentence of *Gren*'s applies to such a vast panoply of subjects :rei:.


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## Lisa (Jun 29, 2008)

Americaphobia comes from Canadians feeling that if we change our laws and rights too much we will become too "american" and lose our diversity and individuality.


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## Sukerkin (Jun 29, 2008)

Fear not *Lisa*, my face-to-face contact with Canadians and Americans reassures me that you are very different in nature (when in urban environments at any rate).

I mean no insult to the many American virtual-environment friends I have when I relay the fact that the Canadians I have met were very much more polite and relaxed than their American counterparts.

My sample group is unfairly small of course and it may well not be statistically reliable but going by the customs at Chicago and Calgary I know which one I preferred.

The lovely red head smiling "Welcome to Canada" at me at 2:30 in the morning (after more than a day in the air) went down a lot better than the hugely overweight black chap ignoring me *completely* at 4 in the afternoon.  That was despite the .357 on her hip :lol:.


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## Kacey (Jun 29, 2008)

Lisa said:


> Excellent article in the Winnipeg Sun.  Thought I would share.
> 
> FULL STORY


It is always easier to ban _all_ of something, than to have a tangled set of rules about who is allowed to have which items when, where, and in what condition (working, unloaded, etc.).  This is the same reason why it is easier to call _all_ forms of corporal punishment *abuse*, whether referring to a light tap on the bottom of a diapered child or beating with a broom handle - to lump everything together avoids differences in interpretation.  It also assumes that all people are incapable of following - or enforcing - any law that _requires_ interpretation.  And therefore, as has been said in other contexts - the law-abiding follow the laws, the law-breakers ignore them, and the gulf between what one can legally have, and what the law-breakers have, grows larger all the time... or the law-abiding cease to be so.   And the nanny state continues to assume that writing laws will solve problems involving law-breakers.  :idunno:


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## mrhnau (Jun 29, 2008)

Sukerkin said:


> I mean no insult to the many American virtual-environment friends I have when I relay the fact that the Canadians I have met were very much more polite and relaxed than their American counterparts.
> 
> My sample group is unfairly small of course and it may well not be statistically reliable but going by the customs at Chicago and Calgary I know which one I preferred.


It really depends on where you are. Chicago? I could see that. Go further South, where the Yankees have not invaded (is there any such populated place in the South anymore?), and you will get a bit more hospitality. Of course, this is still a generality, but it sort of holds


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## Deaf Smith (Jun 29, 2008)

I have noticed in history the more 'civilized' a country gets, the more they seem to abhore violence, any type of violence (good or bad, self defense or premeditated attack.) They also seem to lower their defenses and get soft. More importantly they these countries failed and were taken over by people who didn't have such qualms.

This may also be a trait of most humans in general. Many sheep, few lions. Life of leasure more important than security.

Canada is more closely entertwined with Britian than the U.S. (same for Austrailia to.) Britian, like most of the European Continent, have very long histories and many times dictoral governments (kings, emperor, dictators, etc... along with wars, invasions, genocide, and the like.) Same goes for Asian and African countries.

Their feelings for their people are those of 'subjects' and not citizens. A subject does not have any particular right. Priviliges, yes, rights no. And as we all get more 'civilized' we tend to think of weapons as being crude, or brutal, and being subjects, the government can take away their weapons. And thus banning guns or knives or any 'offensive weapon'.

Now the Americans. Our history is young. We flat gained our independace by the rifle, and against a king no less. Our Manifest Destiny, across the rest of the continent, was also made possible by the rifle (and pistol, the Colt SSA was the high capacity handgun of the day just was the Winchster 73, and both were much faster to reload than muzzle loading weapons of the time.)

We are hugely indebted to our founding fathers for insisting on a Bill of Rights. Hugely. And in particular, the 2nd Amendment. For without that one, the others are just a piece of paper.

For you see, Chairman Mao was right. Political power does come out of the barrle of a gun. The citizen's guns!

Deaf


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## chinto (Jun 30, 2008)

OK PEOPLE !!   HISTORY LESSON TIME !!  lol..

In all the worlds history, including places like Okinawa, for over 200 years any weapon at all, and in Colombia, and the old Soviet Union (USSR) where possession of a fire arm is not only illegal, but like in Colombia possession of one round of ammo is a  death penalty offense, punishable by summery execution!!   NO WEAPONS BAN HAS EVER STOPPED PEOPLE WHO WANTED A WEAPON FROM GETTING ONE!!!!! 
This is historical fact.  Now on the other hand.. there are lots of examples like Switzerland and the USA, so far, where the right to own a weapon has maintained liberty for the populace for century's!!!! 
I live in the USA.. the only other country I would consider living in is Switzerland.. there you are requierd to train for the military and are issued a weapon .. ( full auto capable battle rifle, or assault rifle) and ammo on demand!!  they have one of the lowest crime rates in the world.. cant Imagine why!!!  perhaps because the crooks know the people are armed too???!??
you decide!!


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