# Selling gear in your dojo



## PhotonGuy

Most dojos sell training gear that is needed for classes, including uniforms. My question is this, where do the dojos get the gear they sell, do they have a contract with a MA store that supplies such stuff? Do they have a contract with the companies that produce the gear and have it delivered to the dojo directly from the company? How do they set it up?


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## Dirty Dog

They buy the gear at retail and resell it at cost, or at a markup. They buy it at a discount and sell it at cost, or at a markup. They have it custom made and sell it at cost, or at a markup. They tell students to buy it from XXXXX.


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## drop bear

Ring the suppliers who will have a rep.

Work from there.


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## K-man

Depends on how big your organisation is. For example, I have friends that order Gis from Pakistan 500 at a time. The get really cheap prices. I buy from a retailer one at a time and get an instructor discount. So I can make a small profit or sell at my cost. Normally I take the profit because I have the time and travel to cover. At other times I will buy some gear at the post Christmas sales.
:asian:


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## jks9199

PhotonGuy said:


> Most dojos sell training gear that is needed for classes, including uniforms. My question is this, where do the dojos get the gear they sell, do they have a contract with a MA store that supplies such stuff? Do they have a contract with the companies that produce the gear and have it delivered to the dojo directly from the company? How do they set it up?



Different schools have different approaches.  One I know of has a martial arts supply store as a business next door to the training hall.  I get wholesale prices from several martial arts equipment companies, and charge my students slightly over cost on occasional orders.


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## PhotonGuy

Well I've heard that gear, particularly uniforms can be one of the main money makers for the dojo. Martial arts has a very high turnover rate, especially for children. Lots of children go into the martial arts for something fun and exciting to do. After about a year or so they get their green belt and they put it on the wall, show it to their friends, and move on into the martial arts and go into other stuff. So somebody running a dojo will sell lots of uniforms to children who want to try out the martial arts and so it will bring lots of income.


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## Blindside

PhotonGuy said:


> Well I've heard that gear, particularly uniforms can be one of the main money makers for the dojo. Martial arts has a very high turnover rate, especially for children. Lots of children go into the martial arts for something fun and exciting to do. After about a year or so they get their green belt and they put it on the wall, show it to their friends, and move on into the martial arts and go into other stuff. So somebody running a dojo will sell lots of uniforms to children who want to try out the martial arts and so it will bring lots of income.



Most of the dropouts will occur in the first three months.  And many schools will include a cheap POS uniform as part of their intro package to get people in the door.  But yes, selling uniforms can make you money.  And if you want to be really money grubbing about it, you can require that they buy the school gear rather than somewhere else and you can mark up the school gear even higher because then you don't have competition from outside sources.


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## Big Don

Dirty Dog said:


> They buy the gear at retail and resell it at cost, or at a markup. They buy it at a discount and sell it at cost, or at a markup. They have it custom made and sell it at cost, or at a markup. They tell students to buy it from XXXXX.



Or something like that


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## Dirty Dog

Blindside said:


> Most of the dropouts will occur in the first three months.  And many schools will include a cheap POS uniform as part of their intro package to get people in the door.  But yes, selling uniforms can make you money.  And if you want to be really money grubbing about it, you can require that they buy the school gear rather than somewhere else and you can mark up the school gear even higher because then you don't have competition from outside sources.



You're right that must dropouts happen in the first month or so. 
Guess we're not money grubbing. We won't let people wear a dobak (or white belt) till they learn kicho il jang. That's a couple months for most people. 



Sent from an old fashioned 300 baud acoustic modem by whistling into the handset. Really.


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## jezr74

My dojang sells uniforms, and I'd prefer to buy it via them as well purely out of support since they are decent enough. I doubt they sell enough to make a crust out of it though, maybe one or two every three months if that.


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## PhotonGuy

Dirty Dog said:


> You're right that must dropouts happen in the first month or so.
> Guess we're not money grubbing. We won't let people wear a dobak (or white belt) till they learn kicho il jang. That's a couple months for most people.
> 
> Sent from an old fashioned 300 baud acoustic modem by whistling into the handset. Really.



So where is your place? And what do students wear before they learn the first form?


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## Dirty Dog

PhotonGuy said:


> So where is your place? And what do students wear before they learn the first form?



It's at the YMCA. They wear whatever workout clothes they choose.


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## donnaTKD

most places round here force you to wear their schools gear  

i want the choice whether i choose to wear RDX, BadBoy, MAR, Maxx or Kicksport gear or their gear with everything about the dojo/gym plastered all over it (i hate that).  

don't get me wrong some people like their gear and wear it - to me that's their choice for though i wear RDX not just cos i'm sponsored by them but cos i find their kit really really comfy 

so should it not be down to the student to say i wear this cos 

(1) i bought it 
(2) i feel really comfy in it
(3) it's mine

then it's upto you to tell me why i should buy the gear you're selling and what makes your gear so special that it's the "must have" kit in your dojo.


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## PhotonGuy

Dirty Dog said:


> It's at the YMCA. They wear whatever workout clothes they choose.



Im not saying this about your YMCA but most martial arts programs at YMCAs are known for being generally inferior and of lower quality than the training you would get at a dojo that just teaches martial arts. There are exceptions with some YMCAs being known for having really good martial arts programs and your YMCA might be one of them.


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## Dirty Dog

PhotonGuy said:


> Im not saying this about your YMCA but most martial arts programs at YMCAs are known for being generally inferior and of lower quality than the training you would get at a dojo that just teaches martial arts. There are exceptions with some YMCAs being known for having really good martial arts programs and your YMCA might be one of them.



And on what do you base this ridiculously sweeping and insulting generalization?


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## Instructor

PhotonGuy said:


> Im not saying this about your YMCA but most martial arts programs at YMCAs are known for being generally inferior and of lower quality than the training you would get at a dojo that just teaches martial arts. There are exceptions with some YMCAs being known for having really good martial arts programs and your YMCA might be one of them.



That's utter BS...


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## Blindside

PhotonGuy said:


> Im not saying this about your YMCA but most martial arts programs at YMCAs are known for being generally inferior and of lower quality than the training you would get at a dojo that just teaches martial arts. There are exceptions with some YMCAs being known for having really good martial arts programs and your YMCA might be one of them.



The entire martial arts "industry," including so called professional dojos/dojangs/whatever are filled with different levels of quality instruction.  Just because someone has a full time dojo doesn't mean they offer a quality product.  

There are many instructors who don't want to deal with having the headache of a full time dojo, I am one of those, but there are many others.  I know instructors who teach out of athletic centers, Elk/Eagles/FOE/whatever halls, churches, health clubs, and warehouses.  Does your sweeping generalization include them as well or are you just talking about the Y?


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## Dirty Dog

PhotonGuy said:


> Im not saying this about your YMCA but most martial arts programs at YMCAs are known for being generally inferior and of lower quality than the training you would get at a dojo that just teaches martial arts. There are exceptions with some YMCAs being known for having really good martial arts programs and your YMCA might be one of them.



Here's a hint: we ARE a dojang that just teaches martial arts. We don't teach yoga. We don't teach zoomba. We don't bake cakes. We teach martial arts. 
The fact that there may be other people in the building teaching/doing those other things is no more relevant than the services offered at other shops near whatever commercial dojo you have in mind.
The only difference is that we're not a commercial school. The fact that there's no profit motive is neither good nor bad. It just is.

I'm sorry that you think teaching in a program that allows us to do something good for the members of our community is somehow inferior. 
Not because there's any truth to it, but because it says something about you. And what it says is not good.


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## PhotonGuy

Dirty Dog said:


> And on what do you base this ridiculously sweeping and insulting generalization?



I've seen many YMCAs and the martial arts programs they've got. Like I said, they're exceptions. In case you didn't notice, I wasn't singling out your YMCA.


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## jks9199

PhotonGuy said:


> So where is your place? And what do students wear before they learn the first form?



They train naked, of course!


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## PhotonGuy

Sheesh, people don't have to take such offense and be so hostile just because I talk about an observation I make about martial arts programs in YMCAs. I do know there are exceptions and some YMCAs have really good martial arts programs, so people don't have to get so worked up, golly, its just an observation of mine.


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## Dirty Dog

PhotonGuy said:


> Sheesh, people don't have to take such offense and be so hostile just because I talk about an observation I make about martial arts programs in YMCAs. I do know there are exceptions and some YMCAs have really good martial arts programs, so people don't have to get so worked up, golly, its just an observation of mine.



I'm not saying this about you, but most people who use the word "Guy" in their login are known for being incredibly ignorant, socially inept douchebags. There are exceptions with some being really cool people and you might be one of them.


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## Tames D

YMCA is a great place. My kids learned how to swim at the Y. Now they compete at a high level. I don't know about the Martial Arts program, but if it's near as good as the swimming program, then it's top quality. I've noticed that the people that work at the Y are talented and very giving of their expertise.


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## PhotonGuy

Dirty Dog said:


> I'm not saying this about you, but most people who use the word "Guy" in their login are known for being incredibly ignorant, socially inept douchebags. There are exceptions with some being really cool people and you might be one of them.



Fair enough. I won't take it personally.


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## donnaTKD

one of my friends teaches at my local YMCA and she's got spadefulls of quality running through her programmes.

one suggestion don't go slagging off what you don't know cos it will come back and bite you on the ***


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## seasoned

No hijacking here just clarity of post #14, and my 2 cents

It's not the YMCA or the church gym or the health spa and lets throw in the store front along with the mall dojo. It's all about what people are looking for and the quality of the instruction. Hell, there's awesome garage and cellar dojo that are "kicking butt".


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## Buka

PhotonGuy said:


> Sheesh, people don't have to take such offense and be so hostile just because I talk about an observation I make about martial arts programs in YMCAs. I do know there are exceptions and some YMCAs have really good martial arts programs, so people don't have to get so worked up, golly, its just an observation of mine.



You might want to consider reading Dale Carnegie's How to _Win Friends and Influence People_. It's a good read.

I think "golly" was a nice touch, though.


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## PhotonGuy

Buka said:


> You might want to consider reading Dale Carnegie's How to _Win Friends and Influence People_. It's a good read.


I'll look into it.


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## Grenadier

PhotonGuy said:


> Im not saying this about your YMCA but most martial arts programs at YMCAs are known for being generally inferior and of lower quality than the training you would get at a dojo that just teaches martial arts.



That's a silly statement.  

Many instructors start their programs at the local Y's, because startup costs are relatively inexpensive, and they can build up a decent sized program in a relatively short time.  If anything, understanding how to build up a martial arts program from almost nothing is a great skill, and those who can build up a decent sized program at such a place will usually have a solid understanding about teaching.  



> There are exceptions with some YMCAs being known for having really good martial arts programs and your YMCA might be one of them.



Y's will vary, some are great, some are bad.  Just because it's a Y, though, does not say anything about the quality of the programs and / or services they offer, and even the quality of such things can vary within a Y.  

For that matter, it's no different than a place the likes of SportPlex, etc.


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## donnaTKD

i think Y's are just like every other dojo / gym that's out there -- there are some quality places to train and there are some that really shouldn't be in business but they are cos mummy and daddy want little junior to go and learn MA.

just cos it's a Y don't go slagging it off the instruction is often way better than any mcdojo out there


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## Tames D

It's fun to stay at the YMCA.


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## donnaTKD

i'm glad that you enjoy where you train cos a few people responding to this thread think differently


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## WaterGal

Regardless of whether martial arts classes at the Y are generally good or not, telling someone "what you do is usually terrible" to their face is rude. It reminds of me an event I tabled a few weeks ago - I was next to a local gym, and some guy walks over to them and says something like, "gyms are for lazy people who sit on their butt in an office all day.  I work out by doing my job".  Why would you say that?  I always wonder that.  I think poorly of a few schools in this area, based on what I've seen of them, but I don't go over to their place and insult them.

That being said, to the actual topic of the thread.  Commercial schools that sell gear and uniforms usually buy the gear from a wholesaler/supplier at a reduced/wholesale price, and then resell it for some amount of profit.  Popular suppliers in the US include Century, Dynamics, and Tiger Claw. To set up a wholesale account, there's generally an application process that involves sending them a copy of your business license, to prove that you're a real incorporated martial arts school.  And if you want them to print your school logo on the gear, you have to pay them a couple hundred bucks as a setup fee.


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## PhotonGuy

WaterGal said:


> That being said, to the actual topic of the thread.  Commercial schools that sell gear and uniforms usually buy the gear from a wholesaler/supplier at a reduced/wholesale price, and then resell it for some amount of profit.  Popular suppliers in the US include Century, Dynamics, and Tiger Claw. To set up a wholesale account, there's generally an application process that involves sending them a copy of your business license, to prove that you're a real incorporated martial arts school.  And if you want them to print your school logo on the gear, you have to pay them a couple hundred bucks as a setup fee.



There is no such thing as a business license for a martial arts school. To set up a business as a doctor or a lawyer or lots of other professions you do need a license of some sort but there are no regulations regarding instruction in the martial arts. Technically speaking, somebody who knows nothing about the martial arts can read a book on martial arts and then set up a school, although their business probably won't last long.


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## Dirty Dog

PhotonGuy said:


> There is no such thing as a business license for a martial arts school. To set up a business as a doctor or a lawyer or lots of other professions you do need a license of some sort but there are no regulations regarding instruction in the martial arts. Technically speaking, somebody who knows nothing about the martial arts can read a book on martial arts and then set up a school, although their business probably won't last long.



You don't actually know what a business license is, do you?
:face palm:
In many (most?) places in the USA, running a business requires a (wait for it...)... Business license...
Thats right... a license issued by the municipality that allows you to run a business.


Sent from an old fashioned 300 baud acoustic modem by whistling into the handset. Really.


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## donnaTKD

not much different from where i live 

i set up trading for myself and all i really needed was a bank account and an accountant to make sure that HMRC knew i was above board. at the time of registering (you gotta fill out a bunch of forms) your firm they do a bunch of checks and you get sent a photocard so you can pay your tax more easily.


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## jezr74

PhotonGuy said:


> There is no such thing as a business license for a martial arts school. To set up a business as a doctor or a lawyer or lots of other professions you do need a license of some sort but there are no regulations regarding instruction in the martial arts. Technically speaking, somebody who knows nothing about the martial arts can read a book on martial arts and then set up a school, although their business probably won't last long.





you might be thinking of credentials for practice, like a doctor or notary etc.



In Australia like most places you need to be registered to run a business


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## WaterGal

PhotonGuy said:


> There is no such thing as a business license for a martial arts school. To set up a business as a doctor or a lawyer or lots of other professions you do need a license of some sort but there are no regulations regarding instruction in the martial arts. Technically speaking, somebody who knows nothing about the martial arts can read a book on martial arts and then set up a school, although their business probably won't last long.



A _business_ license, not a professional license. A business license is a piece of paper you get from your state or county giving you the right to operate a business there. It's something that you get when you incorporate your business, or at least it was for us.  It doesn't have anything to do with whether you're any good at teaching martial arts, cooking pizza, fixing electronics, selling clothes, or whatever else your business does.

What it does, in this context, is to prove to the supplier that John Doe owns and operates an actual business called John's Karate Academy, which if it's successful will be need to buy thousands or tens of thousands of dollars worth of uniforms, sparring gear, equipment, etc every year.


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## PhotonGuy

Dirty Dog said:


> You don't actually know what a business license is, do you?
> :face palm:
> In many (most?) places in the USA, running a business requires a (wait for it...)... Business license...
> Thats right... a license issued by the municipality that allows you to run a business.
> 
> 
> Sent from an old fashioned 300 baud acoustic modem by whistling into the handset. Really.



Im supposed to be facepalming you, not the other way around. Get it right.


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