# Multiple Attackers



## MJS (Dec 8, 2006)

What is your strategy or what do you feel is the best strategy, when dealing with multiple attackers?  Specifically, I'm looking to discuss how you position yourself, your method of attack, how you take into consideration other people that may be with you, and the potential for weapons.

Looking forward to your replies!:ultracool 

Mike


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## bushidomartialarts (Dec 8, 2006)

avoiding injury through rapid flight is always the second best policy.

the best policy is avoiding the need for rapid flight through solid awareness and good decisions.

now if neither of those are an option, you're at a serious disadvantage. here are some strategies:

-- try to position yourself so you're only ever dealing with one attacker at a time. 

 --use moves designed to knock down the person, rather than set them up for a big shot -- while you're setting them up, their pal is lining up on you.

-- continually seek the opportunity to escape, whether it's full on flight or just creating space.

-- keep moving so they can't set up to take advantage of your position.

that's some of what i know.  please re-read the best and second-best strategies.  they really are the only sane way to deal with multiple attackers.


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## exile (Dec 8, 2006)

I see two phases (and I'm visualizing two attackers, maybe three here, with no possibility at the outset of a quick retreat in any direction---your objective in this scenario is to break out of the box they're trying to put you in). In the first, you need fast, continuous motion, moving in on one of them, then moving towards one of the others, with very intimidating techniques so that no one of them feels too comfortable getting close to you, in order to keep the radius of the fight as large as possible---you don't want them to be able to converge on you! In the second, you move very, very suddenly and quickly towards one and do everything you can to inflict the maximum damage to him that you can, and I mean _maximum_, as fast as possible. As soon as he's out of the fight, you're off like a shot through the gap you've created by taking him out.


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## MJS (Dec 9, 2006)

Great replies! Thanks!:ultracool 

For myself, I feel, first and foremost, being aware of whats going on and not getting too focused on one person, is most important.  Of course, getting out of there asap, is important as well.  Doing what you can to position yourself to possibly use one as a shield against the others is another option.

Inflict the most damage on the closest person as quickly as possible.  Considering that you're already at a disadvantage, using something as an equalizer may be necessary.  If that means picking something up and using it to aid in your defense, I'd say go for it.


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## exile (Dec 9, 2006)

MJS said:


> Great replies! Thanks!:ultracool
> 
> For myself, I feel, first and foremost, being aware of whats going on and not getting too focused on one person, is most important.  Of course, getting out of there asap, is important as well.  Doing what you can to position yourself to possibly use one as a shield against the others is another option.
> 
> Inflict the most damage on the closest person as quickly as possible.  Considering that you're already at a disadvantage, using something as an equalizer may be necessary.  If that means picking something up and using it to aid in your defense, I'd say go for it.



Yes, this makes sense, and the crucial idea is, find the weak point in the `box' and punch a hole in it there to break out. I was in one dicey situation with a friend a long time ago, and at one point it definitely looked as though it was going to go sideways on us, and I realized that one of our antagonists was giving off `I'm gonna do this but I'm kind of worried about doing it' vibes. _He_ was the one I was going to target immediately once things started, because I figured he would be taken out of the fight most easily and that would be our tunnel out... we got lucky, it never came to that in the end. But it taught me to assess the opposition carefully and think about who was the highest-value target in terms of escaping...


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## terryl965 (Dec 9, 2006)

MJS said:


> Great replies! Thanks!:ultracool
> 
> For myself, I feel, first and foremost, being aware of whats going on and not getting too focused on one person, is most important. Of course, getting out of there asap, is important as well. Doing what you can to position yourself to possibly use one as a shield against the others is another option.
> 
> Inflict the most damage on the closest person as quickly as possible. Considering that you're already at a disadvantage, using something as an equalizer may be necessary. If that means picking something up and using it to aid in your defense, I'd say go for it.


 

Yes thta is pretty much the same for me.


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## morph4me (Dec 9, 2006)

bushidomartialarts said:


> avoiding injury through rapid flight is always the second best policy.
> 
> the best policy is avoiding the need for rapid flight through solid awareness and good decisions.
> 
> ...


 
Excellent post, great advice


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## KenpoTex (Dec 10, 2006)

I actually just started a series on dealing with multiple attackers in the self-defense class that I teach.

To me, the most important thing in this situation is your mindset.  Remember: multiple attacker situations are DEADLY FORCE situations...treat them as such.

If you have to fight:

-ATTACK!!! don't wait for them to set you up, go on the offensive.

-Seek to "line up" your attackers so you only have to deal with one at a time.

-introduce a weapon at the earliest possible moment and use it until all threats have been neutralized.  

-don't waste time with ineffective strikes...be nasty, attack the eyes, throat, and knees in an effort to take the opponents out of the fight as quickly as possible.

-KEEP MOVING!  if you remain stationary, you're going to get "boxed in" and you will not like what happens next.

This is a great article on multiple attacker situations...definately worth the read.
http://www.personalprotectionsystems.ca/Fighting Multiple Opponents.doc


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## exile (Dec 10, 2006)

kenpotex said:


> This is a great article on multiple attacker situations...definately worth the read.
> http://www.personalprotectionsystems.ca/Fighting Multiple Opponents.doc



Good article. It reinforces something I've always felt about such situations:  the keys to survival are _accuracy_ and _ferocity_ working in tandem. My one experience with this kind of situation gave me the idea that there's always someone in the pack who probably would rather not be there. Go for maximum damage to that one, act in terms of what the phrase `tear him limb from limb' suggests (the point of accuracy is that every single move you make must count as much as it possibly can), use your well-trained mid-low back kick if you can and must, don't be afraid to go for his eyes,  and you've probably got a way out. At that point, sprint-jutsu takes over.

It's not nice but what choice do you have?


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## Shotgun Buddha (Dec 12, 2006)

Hmmm. Just wondering how many people have done some sort of realistic multiple opponents training?
By which I mean they try to swarm you and kick your head in, not the one at at time and graceful falling routine.
Has anyone done a Geoff Thompson Animal Day style training, where you and a few others suit up in full protective gear, and basically have them attack full force and see how you handle it? If so, how'd it go?
Its something I want to try out myself, because it would give a clearer understanding of whats involved. Although I'll wager the one guy usually winds up on the ground getting stomped.


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## bushidomartialarts (Dec 12, 2006)

we trained that way in the alley behind the dojo i came up in.  it usually went very badly for the guy acting alone.

my lesson from that:  don't wind up in a blind alley with five people who're gonna hit you.

that article was interesting, but i wondered on two points:

first, the author didn't even mention the value of avoidance or even escape.

second, there's a point where he recommended stepping between two attackers.  that's the worst possible place to be.  now, he also stressed the importance of constant movement, so i could be misreading his intent there.  still, does anybody know some details about his training and credentials?


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## Shotgun Buddha (Dec 12, 2006)

bushidomartialarts said:


> we trained that way in the alley behind the dojo i came up in. it usually went very badly for the guy acting alone.
> 
> my lesson from that: don't wind up in a blind alley with five people who're gonna hit you.
> 
> ...


 
Darren Laur? You can request his background details off his site, I'm not sure what they are. All I know of him is from his articles, and he always seems to know what he's talking about.
I know he was an LEO but not much after that, and that he runs one of the more solidly constructed self-defences courses around.


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## stabpunch (Dec 12, 2006)

Shotgun Buddha said:


> Hmmm. Just wondering how many people have done some sort of realistic multiple opponents training?
> By which I mean they try to swarm you and kick your head in, not the one at at time and graceful falling routine.
> Has anyone done a Geoff Thompson Animal Day style training, where you and a few others suit up in full protective gear, and basically have them attack full force and see how you handle it? If so, how'd it go?
> Its something I want to try out myself, because it would give a clearer understanding of whats involved. Although I'll wager the one guy usually winds up on the ground getting stomped.


 
Yeah i don't know about animal day, i guess it's a form of reality based training. 
Anyways we train multiple attackers in class regularly. There are varied levels of aggression we use. The first would be to have three on one with, three people with kick shields all vying for the persons attention in the form of strikes and kicks (delivered hard fast and continously against a person who keeps the pressure on by constantly moving toward the striker), two minutes of this is usually enough to tire even the fittest student (if it's done correctly), the next level introduces a fourth shield, the striker takes the 'takedown' shield holder to the mat and applies grounded strikes. This kind of training is good and gives you a solid understanding of the energy required to defend against three or four assailants.

The next level we use is in a sparring context. Headguard mouthguard and gloves, full contact sparring two or three on one. The only rule in this sparring is try not to seriously injure your friends 

To date the best technique i've found is to grapple the weakest opponent and knee them in a kickboxing fashion whilst using them to swing into the other attackers. In that we wear protective equipment and the fact we aren't really in a mindset to KO each other i guess there are boundless opporunities in aggressive maiming techniques. *The main tool in dealing with multiple attackers is fitness*, and i say this because if your ultra aggressive attack don't knock them out or savage them you will be in for a exhausting, messy struggle. 

Avoidance and awareness are key. 

Act crazy, all people fear the unexpected to some degree, if you can convince two out of the three attackers you're an 'insane blood lusting loony' they might not be enthusiatc about getting close to you. Who knows. 

Try it out, grab your head guard gloves and mouth guard and get some MA friends to swarm you. Test your savagery, unless you experience at least a part of the feeling of being attacked by numbers you can theorise all day long for little reward.

Awareness and avoidance are key.


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## Shotochem (Dec 13, 2006)

First off, the odds are against you from the start.  Running is an excellent strategy and I highly recommend it.

When that fails try not to get anyone behind you.  If you can't see your attackers at all times your chances are slim to none.

Take no prisoners and have no inhibitions.  When you are out numbered it is life threatening and you have to use everything elbows, knees, chairs, hand grenades ect... and anything without hesitation don't worry about hurting anyone as they are not too concerned about your well being.  If you get away and feel bad call an ambulance afterwards.

Keep in constant motion till you have an opening for escape.  Grab the smallest or closest one to you and use him to shield you from the others or throw at them to buy you time to get away.

Brutality is your friend.  Disable, run, and live to fight another day.


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## Old Fat Kenpoka (Dec 13, 2006)

I was recently confronted by a gang of juveniles.  I used Brazilian Jiu Jitsu.  I knocked them down, piled them on top of each other, and pinned them from side-mount until my wife broke up the fight.  Good thing they were all 6-year olds.


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## ares (Dec 13, 2006)

I train against multiple attackers that try to take my head off all the time. I keep positioned so I can see all attackers at once if possible. The first person that comes is not only my example person, but if need be I can use this person as a blocker against other attackers. You need to keep movements short and compact. The more you extend the more balance you lose. Your ultimate goal is to get away as safe as possible. The use of pressure points  comes in handy with multi attackers. Usually if you only have 2 attackers, if you make  the first person pay the price and the second person usually backs down. 3 or more attackers then you have to actually think about excessive force to save your life. Use all that you know to get out of the situation. Attack eyes, throat, knees and what ever else you feel is necessary to get out. That is if talking doesn't work first. You should also use distraction like pretending you're too scared to do anything. SUPRISE. hope this helps. ares


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## Brian R. VanCise (Dec 13, 2006)

I am all about giving myself an advantage.  In a situation against multiple attackers you are at a *serious disadvantage*.  No matter who *you* are.  Personally I am looking to get away or improve position and bring a tool to bear to give myself an advantage. (hopefully the tool will change the situation to my favor)  Most importantly I want to be aware of my surrounding's in the first place and potentially head off an attack of this nature by simply not being there.  Multiple attacking situations are and always will be a brutal test and if at all possible your should avoid them.


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## still learning (Dec 14, 2006)

Hello, Lots of great ideas here.   Your first response should be to find a way to escape (run away)!

2nd response: Is to find a way to escape and run away!

3rd response: Is to find a way to escape and run away!

Remember multiple attackers have the advantage,one of them can grab a weapon(anything nearby) when you are watching the others...If more then two....you will lose...because anyone of them can throw rocks,find weapons (anything nearby) and use it against you...UNLESS you can get a weapon to use first...

When three or more....you will lose...they have the advantage in a street fight with NO rules...

PS: Try practice street style (NO rules) outside of the class and have several people attack you? ....NO rules...(then you know..BEST to RUN!)

Eyes,throat,groin,knees,nose,are good tarkets....always tarket practice...and break anything you can get your hands on (fingers,elbows,neck...) 

These are just my thoughts here...sometimes we need to stay and try to survive...then you fight to END IT....whatever it takes....NO Rules..


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## stabpunch (Dec 14, 2006)

i would use a nice smile and some humour perhaps:

at times i like to envoke my black dragon spirit which freezes all but one opponent so as i can deal with them one at a time. 

At other times i carry around 4 or five separate containers of special fried rice and chopsticks and challenge them to an eating contest, there is a special technique if you carry plenty of sweet and sour sauce you can disadvantage your opponents by coating their rice with the sauce. 

In saying this and not being an eastern traditionalist martial artist myself, you don't have to use rice, a large double cheese pepperoni pizza by chopsticks is also quite the duel. 

However the best story i have heard was about a 40 something man, offering out a drunk meathead in a game of 'snake wrestling' whence he offered his snake onto a bar stool. needless to say the guy and his mates lost it laughing and ended up bying him a drink. 

What isn't being discussed is the motive of the attackers. 

Lets say 5 attackers in a maximum security prison/jail/gaol/belly of the beast/correctional facility. 

Perhaps three 15 year olds who want your wallet and your watch. (one has a slight limp possibly a twisted ankle)

What would a man do against a group of four women whom one he'd alledgedly verbally assaulted.

What would a woman do against the same group of women. If her friend who'd verbally assaulted them was a paraplegic with tourets syndrome and had bogged his wheel chair in lava (carefully laid out to prevent take downs).

Say there were twelve 8 year olds with hyperdermic needles and .22 calibre pistols, would you use your gloch or the one inch punch twelve times. If you did use the one inch punch 12 times would you then have 12 inches?


:soapbox: Soap soap soap get you're hot soap. (is the scrolling ascii one long expletive or the same one repeated over and over? I mean sure it's looping but do the characters represent a letter each or is it a blanket censor?)

speaking of blankets, carry a blanket around in a back pack and if you're confronted by multiple attackers pretend to be a magician and tell them that your next trick will be to make 1000 ninjas appear from under a blanket.

sorry i get carried away sometimes :uhyeah:


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## jdinca (Dec 15, 2006)

First, what's the quickest way I can extract myself from the situation with the least amount of damage to my person (hopefully with verbal judo). Second, if I have to go through somebody to achieve #1, who's it going to be? The one between me and my escape route is the bad guy of choice but it may not be viable. If it's not, then the closest person I can dispatch the quickest, followed by whoever else happens to be within reach as the next victim, until I can get the heck out of there. Quickly disabling by hitting targets of opportunity and then showing them them my heels would be my philosophy of choice.


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