# Martial Art most effective in MMA?



## Scout200 (Oct 6, 2010)

Which martial art(s) do you think is the best and most effective in the  MMA?

(ex: BJJ, Boxing, Karate, Kickboxing, Muay Thai, and/or Wrestling)

-Scout


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## Chris Parker (Oct 6, 2010)

Hmm, you know what? The most effective martial art in MMA is, and I know this is a big surprise here, MMA! It really is, in many cases, it's own martial art in and of itself, not a composite of different systems as most non-MMA people sometimes think, mainly because that simply wouldn't work.


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## terryl965 (Oct 6, 2010)

Well I will pnly say this it is never the art but the person who is training. People make arts look good or bad, people who have the drive will be better than those that just go at it half hearted.


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## MJS (Oct 6, 2010)

What you typically see....BJJ skills, boxing, MT, wrestling.  OTOH, Lyoto Machida has been very successful with his modified TMA, Shotokan.  

So I agree with Terry....its not necessarily the art, but the way its trained.


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## Grenadier (Oct 6, 2010)

People who want to enter mixed martial arts competitions generally select a grappling art, and a striking art.  No one particular art has any real advantage over another, as long as you have a good coach, and know how to blend the multiple arts together for competition purposes. 

Even back in the early days, when Brazilian Jiu Jitsu certainly held an advantage due to people not being familiar with it, a skilled wrestler or Judo-ka could certainly negate a BJJ practitioner's advantage on the ground, or come out ahead, depending on the skill of the wrestler / Judo-ka.    

Someone the likes of Rashad Evans or Quentin Jackson combines boxing and wrestling, and to great effect.  Others, like Lyoto Machida or Georges St. Pierre, choose to use Karate and Brazilian Jiu Jitsu.  

In addition to this, there are several schools that basically teach MMA as its own art, such as Greg Jackson's Gaidojutsu, which combines wrestling, judo, and kickboxing, or the American Kickboxing Academy, which combines kickboxing, Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, and Judo.


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## Xue Sheng (Oct 6, 2010)

Martial Art most effective in MMA? 

The one that wins....resaults may very based on individual fighters


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## punisher73 (Oct 6, 2010)

They did a study awhile back, and for the life of me can't remember when.  It looked at the winners of each match and what their BASE style was.  The most winners had "wrestling" as their base style and added from there.


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## Cirdan (Oct 7, 2010)

uh.. Striking and grappling I guess. (Since warhammers ain`t allowed)


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## Tez3 (Oct 7, 2010)

Few of our fighters in the UK have wrestling as their base art, it's not done here very much.
More and more though fighters don't have a base art, that was in the early days when MMa was relatively new, these days fighters are MMA fighters through and through with MMA as theirart.

Cirdan, we often have Norwegian fighters on our cards especially in the NE of England as it's close and we keep having to lock their warhammers up and give them back after the fightnight, nice weapons but the blood makes such a mess to clear up after the shows.

It is called MIXED martial arts for a reason.


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## Grenadier (Oct 7, 2010)

punisher73 said:


> They did a study awhile back, and for the life of me can't remember when. It looked at the winners of each match and what their BASE style was. The most winners had "wrestling" as their base style and added from there.


 
I wouldn't doubt that at all, given the success that various MMA fighters have had at various times throughout the years.  For example, in the 90's, you had catch wrestlers the likes of Ken Shamrock, "classical" wrestlers such as Dan Severn, Don Frye, Pat Miletich, Mark Coleman, etc.  Each of those guys went on to have a good MMA career.

In more recent times, you have wrestlers the likes of Matt Hughes, Josh Koscheck, etc., although these guys have added more striking techniques to their arsenals, which was to be expected, given how the sport has rounded itself.


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## Cirdan (Oct 7, 2010)

Tez3 said:


> Cirdan, we often have Norwegian fighters on our cards especially in the NE of England as it's close and we keep having to lock their warhammers up and give them back after the fightnight, nice weapons but the blood makes such a mess to clear up after the shows.


 
Hmph, do you at least allow us to eat poisonous mushroms before fighting so we can get a prober berzerk on?


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## Tez3 (Oct 7, 2010)

Cirdan said:


> Hmph, do you at least allow us to eat poisonous mushroms before fighting so we can get a prober berzerk on?


 

Sadly no, we give them what the loacls have, Newcastle Brown Ale, has the same effect! it's not nicknamed Nukey Brown for nought!


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## zDom (Oct 7, 2010)

Tez3 said:


> Newcastle Brown Ale



Good stuff!


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## sgtmac_46 (Oct 7, 2010)

Scout200 said:


> Which martial art(s) do you think is the best and most effective in the MMA?
> 
> (ex: BJJ, Boxing, Karate, Kickboxing, Muay Thai, and/or Wrestling)
> 
> -Scout


 
None of the above.  Have you ever heard the boxing phrase 'Styles make fights'.  Well, styles have strengths and weakesses that other styles are either vulnerable or can exploit.

For example, BJJ worked great against boxers.......but wrestling tended to successful exploit the weaknesses in the BJJ game........wrestling is great against many strikers, but Muay Thai knee and elbow strikes, and dirty boxing, as successfully countered many wrestling techniques, specifically the rising knee is hell on traditional wrestling leg shoots.

It's really a game of escalation and counter.


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## Cirdan (Oct 7, 2010)

Tez3 said:


> Sadly no, we give them what the loacls have, Newcastle Brown Ale, has the same effect! it's not nicknamed Nukey Brown for nought!


 
Sounds good, like you brits say "We need a pint before us bash"


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## Tez3 (Oct 7, 2010)

Cirdan said:


> Sounds good, like you brits say "We need a pint before us bash"


 
Usually a few pints lol!

I find people who ask what style is the most effective, best or whatever in MMA usually wants to be told that one style dominates and it's usually the style they do 

The best fighters have all round skills, a tactical brain, good cardio and stamina, a well developed sense of good sportsmanship and a bit of showmanship.

Styles don't matter, it's what you do with what you know. It's knowing what works for you.

Look at MMA for what it is, all round fighting. No one style is better than another if you know what you are doing. MMA doesn't equate to single style fights, it's what it says it is.


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## Scout200 (Oct 8, 2010)

sgtmac_46 said:


> None of the above.  Have you ever heard the boxing phrase 'Styles make fights'.  Well, styles have strengths and weakesses that other styles are either vulnerable or can exploit.
> 
> For example, BJJ worked great against boxers.......but wrestling tended to successful exploit the weaknesses in the BJJ game........wrestling is great against many strikers, but Muay Thai knee and elbow strikes, and dirty boxing, as successfully countered many wrestling techniques, specifically the rising knee is hell on traditional wrestling leg shoots.
> 
> It's really a game of escalation and counter.



Good point!


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## Xue Sheng (Oct 8, 2010)

sgtmac_46 said:


> None of the above. Have you ever heard the boxing phrase 'Styles make fights'. Well, styles have strengths and weakesses that other styles are either vulnerable or can exploit.
> 
> For example, BJJ worked great against boxers.......but wrestling tended to successful exploit the weaknesses in the BJJ game........wrestling is great against many strikers, but Muay Thai knee and elbow strikes, and dirty boxing, as successfully countered many wrestling techniques, specifically the rising knee is hell on traditional wrestling leg shoots.
> 
> It's really a game of escalation and counter.


 

Or an old CMA view. 

Qinna fights Shuaijiao 
Shuaijiao fight kicking and punching
Kicking and Punching fights Qinna


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## teekin (Oct 8, 2010)

Tez3 said:


> Sadly no, we give them what the loacls have, Newcastle Brown Ale, has the same effect! it's not nicknamed Nukey Brown for nought!


 
Good Lord I must move to the UK!


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## stonewall1350 (Oct 8, 2010)

Just my 2 cents on watching and having done MMA. MMA fights are not about styles. They are ALL about the fighter. Honestly how many of you guys that wrestle can do NOTHING on your back and cannot perform...say...a triangle choke or rubber guard? I think if you are looking at MMA and what arts to train in...then look at what the art focuses on and what part of your MMA game you want to improve. If you have BJJ then your going to be better off on the ground in a knowledge standpoint. I think the arts you learn separate of MMA are a way of giving yourself options...adding things to your gym bag of knowledge.


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## Gaius Julius Caesar (Oct 9, 2010)

Grendel308 said:


> Good Lord I must move to the UK!


 
I've allways wondered if Newcastle tasted a bit different in the UK?

My usual first choice of beers. next being Bass, Sam Adam's Oktoberfest (when around) is very good as well and a regular Sam is better than any other production American beer by far.


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## chinto (Oct 22, 2010)

that is for you to decide.  MMA is a sport. with rules and a ref. there is a difference in what it is designed to do then  for most of your older arts. They were developed in general for self defense.


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## Josh Oakley (Oct 23, 2010)

The Wierding Way. I say this only because Xue-Fu is far too deadly for the ring.


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## nails (Nov 13, 2010)

I see boxing as being the most fundemental. Every fighter learns to box for MMA, regardless of their fighting foundation. They might already know how to punch and bob and weave and but at the end of the day, its all boxing.


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## Tez3 (Nov 14, 2010)

nails said:


> I see boxing as being the most fundemental. Every fighter learns to box for MMA, regardless of their fighting foundation. They might already know how to punch and bob and weave and but at the end of the day, its all boxing.


 
or karate or TKD or TSD etc etc. The stance in MMA is not a boxing stance by the way, that gets you taken down. So no it's not all boxing at all.


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## ETinCYQX (Nov 14, 2010)

I really believe you can't apply any one martial art "as is." Each one needs modification to work well.


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## TheArtofDave (Nov 26, 2010)

No one art is better than the other. You need them all to make you a better rounded fighter. If you can't use all of the styles to your advantage you may not last long in training or competition.


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## ForeverStudent (Nov 26, 2010)

I'm not envolved to much in MMA, but..

I think MMA is pretty undefined. There is no rules which moves you can use and which you can't (except few like eye gauging etc.). You don't have to fight by any style, you create your own. From whichever art fighter trained, or arts, he extract what works best for him. 

I think it's very honest way of fighting and testing your skills, if not the honestly one!

You can enter the ring and fight any style you want. It's free fight and i think it's more honestly than traditional martial arts competitions, where you must fight under rules of your style.

So my final opinnion that only style in MMA is the one that fighter creates.

And just one off topic question: is it true that in MMA fights hand joint locks are forbidden (like those you can see in Aikido or Hapkido)?


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## TheArtofDave (Nov 26, 2010)

In Pro, although you'd have to look up the rules on it, or write directly to them if you didn't find an answer. 

I think it would count as a submission to end the fight.

In Amateur I can see how they could be forbidden. Of course another opportunity to ask just to be sure.


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## Rich Parsons (Nov 26, 2010)

Scout200 said:


> Which martial art(s) do you think is the best and most effective in the MMA?
> 
> (ex: BJJ, Boxing, Karate, Kickboxing, Muay Thai, and/or Wrestling)
> 
> -Scout


 

Well if mix in all arts as a possibility ...

FMA's and other blade systems. 

Have you ever rolled with someone and had them pull a balde on you? 
Not fun, unless you are the one surprising them with the blade. (* Traing baldes and folders can be bought and used for such. Also it helps to practice deploying the tool from your pocket even if you use it for nothing more than an impact tool or paiin amplifier. *)

Then again the Group Arts work as well. I mean while one or more grapple with you one waits outside and then takes his shots to hurt you real bad. 

Then there are the firearm systems. close combat, looking for cover, dealing with multiple opponents, all the way out to you are the target, and you never see the person as they are 500 meters plus away from you. 


Oh you mean sport MMA, as in the competition with rules. 

Look at the rules, optimize your training to the rules. 
i.e. Ring position and or control means defensive fighter look bad even if they suck the person into the side and then spin around get their opponent up against the ring. UFC 123 is an example of this or at least from the seat I had at the Palace gave me that percepion. 


Also if you knnow one art, I would say that is the most important, as you cannot go learn twelve new systems to address specific rules. But you can learn tactics and technqiues that will help you keep in your range of preferrence for fighting.


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## Skpotamus (Nov 26, 2010)

My $0.02:  

It really is the fighter, not the style.  

I think in the early days, it was pretty clear that in the style vs style fights, BJJ and other grappling styles did better than the striking styles (with bjj doing the best).  It wasn't until Maurice Smith (a kickboxing champion with a lot of ground training under his belt) came around that mma in the US got a standup striker for a champ.  That was 4 years after BJJ and wrestling had been pretty much king of MMA.  

I don't think this was so much due to the art itself as it was the BJJ guys from brazil had been fighting in challenge matches for quite a while and were used to dealing with punches and kicks.  They'd learned to adapt their art to the fight and make it work for them.  

Now, I think some styles train a bit more...... I don't want to say realistically, because it is a sporting duelistic atmosphere, but with more pressure and in an alive fashion so their practitioners are more used to making their art work against pressure.  Arts like Muay Thai, boxing, wrestling, the other grappling arts, tend to train harder and with a fully resisting partner.  Other styles, like most TMA schools, train with a "helpful" partner that means they don't get to work with failure and learn how to make their stuff work against different kinds of resistance.  

I think if you train realistically, against fully resisting opponents, you can learn to make most styles work for you.


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## sgtmac_46 (Dec 12, 2010)

Skpotamus said:


> My $0.02:
> 
> It really is the fighter, not the style.
> 
> ...


 
The statement 'it's about styles' doesn't just mean 'arts'........a fighter's particular style fighting is his 'style'. A fighter can be very successful with his 'style' versus many other fighters, but he meets a fighter with a different 'style' of fighting and he can't overcome that person, simply because his strengths and weaknesses are successfully countered and exploited by the style of that particular opponent.

So, when I say 'styles make fights' I don't mean it in the 'your tiger style kungfu is strong, but my dragon style will defeat it' sense, but in the boxing sense of 'styles make fights'.


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