# Underwater or Zero G jujutsu



## Makalakumu (Apr 14, 2009)

http://www.pixi.com/~mcjitsu/mizujitsu/mizujitsu.html



> This UnderWater Safety & Self Defense Course has been developed at the suggestions of such diverse organizations as NASA (as part of a request for a "Weightless Environment Combat Course"), YWCA (additional training for Lifeguards and pool personnel) and professional Dive Shops (for Rescue Divers, Dive Masters, and Dive Instructors). Every year there are drownings and severe injuries due to panic or anger in the water. There are several courses taught to Lifeguards, and Scuba instructors through the YMCA, Red Cross, PADI, and other fine organizations, such as the Advanced Lifeguard and the PADI Rescue Diver training, but these only cover the very basics. This course takes that training several steps further, in an organized, safe, and well documented manner.



Interesting.  Fighting in Space!  Thoughts?


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## zDom (Apr 14, 2009)

Check out "Ender's Game" by Orson Scott Card. Fiction worth reading.

(The series that followed, not so much ... )


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## Makalakumu (Apr 14, 2009)

I've read that book.  This is real.  I met the instructor last night.  Has anyone heard of any similar courses?  Any experience?  Or is this original?


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## Flying Crane (Apr 14, 2009)

maunakumu said:


> http://www.pixi.com/~mcjitsu/mizujitsu/mizujitsu.html
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting. Fighting in Space! Thoughts?


 
I did read that on the link you had posted. As a former PADI scuba instructor, I do have a few thoughts.

First, I think the need for such a thing would be EXTREMELY limited. Like primarily for Navy SEAL teams and such, and I imagine they already have it covered. I just cannot see a need for underwater combatives. Outside of a limited number of professional/industrial diving occupations, scuba is largely a form of recreation. The vast number of people doing it are there for fun and entertainment, and the very nature of the sport ensures that only those with proper training in scuba are taking part in it. So what I'm saying is: the chance of getting "attacked" by another scuba enthusiast while out on a dive is virtually nil. I just don't believe it will happen. And those wristlocks and leg scissor holds aren't gonna work on the average tiger shark who mistakes a diver for a sea turtle in murkey water.

Second, I believe there was a photo attached to the article, showing a guy applying a wrist/elbow lock simultaneous with a leg scissors across another guy's neck, both wearing full scuba gear, including fins. In applying such a hold, particularly the leg scissors, I can't imagine how the poor victim would manage to keep his regulator in his mouth and his mask on his face. Most likely in a real situation, if someone tried to apply such techniques, either one or both combatants would lose their regulators and drown, if they didn't break apart and recover them. Kicking around someones head with scuba fins would easily dislodge the mask and regulator. That kind of thing can happen if you are simply following too closely behind your dive partner. Seems like that would really be the ultimate fighting strategy for scuba: dislodge his regulator and don't let him recover it or, better yet, use that little utility knife and cut his hoses. Or, dump his weights and grab his low pressure inflator and inflate his BCD and send him rocketing to the surface with a good case of the bends or a lung injury from the expanding air in his lungs, if it happens too quickly for him to exhale. Just hope he doesn't grab ahold of you and take you with him.

My point being that getting into a combat situation in full scuba gear would be extremely awkward and dangerous for both parties. Just a whole lot to go wrong with the equipment and the dangers of being at depth that could cause the fight to end indecisively, or with the demise of both parties. And as I mentioned above, I just don't believe that ANYBODY (Navy SEALS and such excepted) would ever need the skills.

So maybe they use scuba gear simply to have more time underwater to train, with the real idea being that you would probably not actually be using scuba if you needed to use these skills. I dunno what kind of situation that would be. I suppose if I come to Hawaii for a vacation and I'm swimming in the water, some guy might swim out and drown me, but I find the notion to be extremely unlikely. And as I mentioned about the issues with the gear, it wouldn't make sense to train that way if the intended use is actually without the gear. It's just a completely different situation to be in the water with scuba gear, vs. swimming without gear. 

When I first saw the link I thought it might be a neat idea. But the more I thought about it, I realized it just didn't make much sense.  I think that even training in these techniques could be extremely dangerous.


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## Flying Crane (Apr 14, 2009)

another thought: from what I read on the website, it seems this guy is not a scuba instructor. He may be an expert in jiujitsu, but before trying to get creative in teaching his own courses involving scuba, he should at be at least the level of an Open Water Instructor with one of the major scuba agencies like PADI. Preferably he should reach a level higher than Open Water Instructor, something like Master Scuba Diver Traininer, or Master Instructor or higher, so that he has a lot of experience teaching in the scuba environment.

Without some kind of scuba agency backing, he is exposing himself to a lot of liability, by teaching a scuba related course and not being a scuba instructor of any level.  Scuba is a self-regulated industry and people are on the lookout for activities that might be dangerous.  Once the local dive shops get wind of what he is doing, I wouldn't be surprised if they refuse to fill his tanks, or the tanks of his students.  He may get himself cut off from the ability to keep diving.

With PADI, an instructor can author his own specialty course, and PADI will either choose to acknowledge and recognize it, or not. If they choose to NOT, then the instructor is on his own if he pursues it, and he won't have any liability insurance coverage for it. 

The first time a student drowns because he gets his regulator kicked out of his mouth and the other guy didn't realize it because he was too focused on getting that wrist and elbow lock applied just right, he's gonna be in for one heap of trouble...

Granted, I don't know the details of how he is teaching this program. But my gut tells me this is not a good idea.


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## fightingpower (May 7, 2009)

I know that the British Judo squad used to train in water and apparently was a succesfull training aid.  Also there were some amazing pics i saw in the 'world of Judo' mag as a result of this.  was worth it just for the images.  I am now going to search for them!  Ha


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## Gaius Julius Caesar (Aug 9, 2009)

I cant get the vids to work but this is an interesting subject.

There is a possability that in the next 30-100 years there will be many instalations in space and where people go, so does violence, conflicts and war.

 Zero G would make strikeing useless unless you had a grasp of your oponent, so I see Jujutsu joint locks and strangulations being more advantages in space.

 Also, it does seem that in the future, soldiers of modern nations will be wearing full armour, anyone who has studied armoured combat will tell you that joint locks, trips, takedowns and throws become more important than strikes.


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## lklawson (Aug 10, 2009)

Gaius Julius Caesar said:


> There is a possibility that in the next 30-100 years there will be many installations in space


It's funny.  They've been saying the same thing for the last half-century (and before if you include speculative SciFi that predates Sputnik).

I think I'll wait until there's actual a habitat or two before worrying about zero-g JiuJitsu.  

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## JadecloudAlchemist (Aug 10, 2009)

Mizujutsu....errr...It should be called Suijutsu.

Suijutsu is not a modern invention.

http://mylifeinbudo.blogspot.com/2006/01/swimming-with-armor.html

Now Steve Mclaughlin should do like a real Samurai and commit Seppuku for using Mizujutsu..


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## Makalakumu (Aug 10, 2009)

JadecloudAlchemist said:


> Mizujutsu....errr...It should be called Suijutsu.
> 
> Suijutsu is not a modern invention.
> 
> ...



Is the word mizujutsu somehow not appropriate?  I don't speak Japanese unfortunately.


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## JadecloudAlchemist (Aug 10, 2009)

> Is the word mizujutsu somehow not appropriate? I don't speak Japanese unfortunately.


 
Here it is:&#27700;&#27700; Mizu and Sui both mean water. But depending on the word used with it or in the context will depend on if the word changes from Mizu to Sui when saying it or reading it. In this case the correct reading or saying would be Suijutsu and not Mizujutsu. 

Is it not appropriate I don't think it will get you killed lol but people who can read it might look at it scratching their heads. Japanese are kinda of forgiving to Americans when they speak Japanese they seem to be appreciate the effort more than the semantics of Mizujutsu and Suijutsu just like we forgive them for ENGRISH:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/shaondiwakar/2816890634/ 

A typical ENGRISH sign note that it is called EnGRISH because Japanese get their L's and R's mixed up.


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