# Fajing?



## SFC JeffJ (Mar 28, 2006)

Don't come in this part of MT very often as I'm a jujisuka.  But recently, one of the black belts in my class has been teaching us to relax our strikes.  He calls it Fajing (think that's the correct spelling).  Can anyone explain the why's and how's of it too me?  

Thanks in advance,

Jeff


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## Xue Sheng (Mar 29, 2006)

JeffJ said:
			
		

> Don't come in this part of MT very often as I'm a jujisuka. But recently, one of the black belts in my class has been teaching us to relax our strikes. He calls it Fajing (think that's the correct spelling). Can anyone explain the why's and how's of it too me?
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> 
> Jeff


 
Big question, hard to answer, short simplified version - a punch

Fajing is more than a relaxed punch. It is, from a Tai Chi view, the manifestation of Qi of energy internally at the Dan tian, or it could be using your root to send the energy to your waist which directs it via spine sending the energy is then sent to your arm and fist. 

Basically you are using your thoughts to direct your movements more than muscle. Yes you need to remain relaxed, in your muscles and tendons to allow the Qi to flow easily to where you want it to go. There are varying schools of thought as to what to do once the Qi gets to your fist. Soft style, like tai Chi says stay relaxed and do not over extend in order to protect bones, muscles and ligaments from injury. Hard/soft style such as Xingyi (and much to my surprise White Crane) say tense up upon the instant of contact and relax imiediately thereafter. 

Either of these by the way are not easy to do and takes a lot of practice.

The power you can generate the Tai Chi way, if you get it right is amazing. And the power you get if you can generate this the Xingyi way can be devastating. 

As one of my Sifus explained it; it all comes down to penetration of energy into your opponent. Hard style the penetration is wide and shallow (like a hammer), Hard/soft style the penetration is deeper and not as wide (like the end of a staff), soft style the penetration can be deep and they area is very small (like an arrow). Note, obviously it is not as devastating as a arrow, but the was the example I was given

There is much more to it, this is a quick and simple explanation.


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## SFC JeffJ (Mar 29, 2006)

Thanks for the info.  Makes me wish we had some Tai Chi around here that wasn't all fitness and wellbeing.

Thanks again,

Jeff


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## TigerWoman (Mar 29, 2006)

We have that as well in TKD.  We relax into the kick and punch and tense at the last second at the strike.  TW


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## pete (Mar 29, 2006)

JeffJ said:
			
		

> Thanks for the info. Makes me wish we had some Tai Chi around here that wasn't all fitness and wellbeing.
> 
> Thanks again,
> 
> Jeff


 
check these guys out when they are in indy... tell 'em pete sent ya.

http://www.artemis-seminars.com/schedule.html


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## SFC JeffJ (Mar 29, 2006)

Thanks!!  Looks like interesting stuff.  I'll have to see if I can open my schedule up to get down there on some of those dates.

Jeff


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## Xue Sheng (Mar 29, 2006)

JeffJ said:
			
		

> Thanks for the info. Makes me wish we had some Tai Chi around here that wasn't all fitness and wellbeing.
> 
> Thanks again,
> 
> Jeff


 
You can get similar training if you have a good Xingyi, White Crane, or Bagua school if there is one near you as well. 

I do not know how a Good Bagua or White Crane school will start you out, but a good Xingyi school generally starts you out with stance training and San Ti training that is a good way to start learning how to be relaxed in your stances and form to prepare you for Fajing. However you can get to fajing training if you train to strike in San Ti, I forget the exact name for that training right now, but I will get it to you later if you are interested.

Generally a good MA Tai Chi class will always start you out with form in order to get you to relax in your form. And some of the Tai Chi for health schools, if they truly know what they are doing can get you to learn how to relax while doing the form and that could help as well.


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## SFC JeffJ (Mar 29, 2006)

Thanks for the advice.  The problem is after several exhaustive searches, I haven't been able to find any of those styles in my area.  Closest have been about two hours away.  That wouldn't be too much of a problem, but I'm on call more often than not and just can't be that far away from home on a regular basis.  When I first got back into martial arts, about eight years ago, I really wanted to study Wing Chun and couldn't find anyplace close.  Every now and then I'll get a bug up my butt and do series of searches for anything that isn't Karate or TKD in the area, but always end up with the same results.  I will see if I can find any competent tai chi for health people in the area.

Thanks again for the advice,

Jeff


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## brothershaw (Mar 29, 2006)

Even if you cant find an internal school in your area, being able to relax and stay relaxed when striking will do alot for you.  Most people do not realize how much tension they are carrying / using in thier movements. 
another big part of it is alignment,and how you move the body so you can execute movements with out relying on muscualar strength , but the rabbit hole gets very deep.........


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## dmax999 (Mar 29, 2006)

In short, fajing should be the "strongest" strike your body is capeable of producing. 

It is counter-intuitive to learn, but makes great sense when you think about it. More striking power is produced by more speed. More speed can only be done when your striking arm is relaxed otherwise you have to fight your tensed muscles to go faster. It is almost incomprehensible that it works when you are taught how to do it correctly. It is almost impossible to find somone capeable of teaching it correctly as well.

Putting muscles into a punch causes a push, not a strike.

As Brothershaw also said, alignment is also key, that is called peng in Tai Chi.


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## pete (Mar 30, 2006)

dmax999 said:
			
		

> Putting muscles into a punch causes a push, not a strike.


 exactly... a good exercise is to get in front of a heavy bag and hit it 'hard' without allowing the bag to swing.  that's a tai chi punch... that's fajing. 

anyone else use a heavy bag in their tai chi training?

 pete.


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## SFC JeffJ (Mar 30, 2006)

Thanks for all the great advice.  Going to keep looking for some instruction, and Sensei Recupido, the man who introduced me to the concept in the first place is working with me on it a lot as well.  Going to keep looking for the CMAs that were mentioned to expand upon that.

Thanks again,

Jeff


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## 7starmantis (Mar 30, 2006)

What other CMAs are in your area?

7sm


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## SFC JeffJ (Mar 30, 2006)

7starmantis said:
			
		

> What other CMAs are in your area?
> 
> 7sm



After many searches, there are none.  I'm getting this from an advanced karate-ka.  Wish there were some CMA's around.  Have wanted to study Wing Chun for about 20 years now.  Also have a groing interest in Tai Chi.

Jeff


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## Xue Sheng (Mar 30, 2006)

JeffJ said:
			
		

> After many searches, there are none. I'm getting this from an advanced karate-ka. Wish there were some CMA's around. Have wanted to study Wing Chun for about 20 years now. Also have a groing interest in Tai Chi.
> 
> Jeff


 
Don't give up looking; you never know what you might find.

I looked for another Xingyi school for 10 years and right as I was about to give up someone told me about one near me.

The teacher just didnt advertise.


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## SFC JeffJ (Mar 30, 2006)

I'm to stubborn to give up the search.  Been doing that search for almost 10 years now, every few months.  I'll find one eventually.  Just wish my job allowed me to travel more.  But on the other hand, it allows me a lot of time here on MT.


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## Xue Sheng (Mar 30, 2006)

JeffJ said:
			
		

> I'm to stubborn to give up the search. Been doing that search for almost 10 years now, every few months. I'll find one eventually. Just wish my job allowed me to travel more. But on the other hand, it allows me a lot of time here on MT.


 
Good to hear. 

There are Tai Chi seminars from time to time throughout the US by the Yang Family and the Chen family. The Yang family Webpage could probably tell you were and when and Chen Zhenglei's web page has his seminar schedule, but I will have to post that one, it is out of China, but not to worry it has an English version.

Also I believe Yip Ching (Wing Chun) may do seminars form Time to time, but he may only do them with associated schools.

Another thing to consider, I have no idea where you are located, but if there is a Chinese community it is possible that there are teachers there. Chinese martial artists, especially the very good ones, tend not to advertise.

There is a form of Post training from Xingyi and Yiquan that is fairly simple that helps with relaxing in the stance. There is a web page somewhere that gives the basics of what to do, if I find that I will get the link to you. I am not big on internet training, but this is a pretty good description of Post training and it is fairly simple description.

But until you find someone just keep on working on relaxing the punch, because it sounds like you are going in the right direction already.


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## Gaoguy (Mar 30, 2006)

Fajing means to express whole body power in a short jarring force (if using short power). You can use any contact point of your body (because it's whole body power). You do it very relaxed, no tensing at the end. You can't just do a relaxed strike, you have to have good alignment and structure. It isn't really that difficult to grasp (practice is another thing altogether), you just need to find someone who can show you.


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## Xue Sheng (Mar 30, 2006)

Gaoguy said:
			
		

> Fajing means to express whole body power in a short jarring force (if using short power). You can use any contact point of your body (because it's whole body power). You do it very relaxed, no tensing at the end. You can't just do a relaxed strike, you have to have good alignment and structure. It isn't really that difficult to grasp (practice is another thing altogether), you just need to find someone who can show you.


 
How come you can say in a few lines something that took me at least a page?

I like this description


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## Gaoguy (Apr 3, 2006)

Thirty years of training?
Thank you.


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## Xue Sheng (Apr 3, 2006)

Gaoguy said:
			
		

> Thirty years of training?
> Thank you.


 
I'm right there with you...I have 30 years of trianing as well.


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## ninhito (Apr 3, 2006)

may i have the link myself, and should i get into tai chi quan or tai chi to learn this, there's both near me?


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## Xue Sheng (Apr 3, 2006)

ninhito said:
			
		

> may i have the link myself, and should i get into tai chi quan or tai chi to learn this, there's both near me?


 
Tai Chi, Tai Chi Quan and Taijiquan all pretty much mean the same thing today. Tai Chi Quan and Taijiquan are the same and a Tai Chi is actually the avatar I am currently using. But today they are all interchangeable.

As for which one to go to, that depends on the school itself. Is the teacher well trained and qualified. Also there are different styles of Tai Chi. Chen, Yang, Wu, Wu/Hao, Sun, Li, Zhaobao, to name a few. Mainly what you find is Yang, but there are others around.

But it takes a while to get yourself to relax and it takes a while to learn.

More on Tai Chi here 
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31269

I will post the link as soon as I find it.


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## Xue Sheng (Apr 4, 2006)

Chen Zhenglei link
www.cstjq.com 

As far as the post training link, it is apparently no longer accessible it was at

http://www.yiquan.com

I am not sure if I can send an attachment in a PM or not, but I do have the PDF for the Yiquan Nourishing life post training.

This is NOT Qi Gong training this is beginning stance training (Yichuan and Xingyi) to get you to learn how to relax in a stance.


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## mantis (Apr 5, 2006)

oh... simply it means to not stiff what you are using to strike with.. (ur leg, or arm) and rely on "body" motion thru movement of hips in striking...
the principle is easy.. applying it (ie being relaxed) isnt! g'luck


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## Koryuhoka (Apr 12, 2006)

JeffJ,

My teacher explained it simply this way...

(think of a heavy Chinese accent while reading, he is illustrating with a string) You know... string! You take in finger, one end, let hang... you turn bottom... turn, turn turn, ... cannot turn anymore... you let go... ahhh! (as the string reached its point where you can't twist it anymore and it turns back from that last squeezing twist) This is Fajing! (as he laughs loudly). 

Also: (same heavy accent) You know, a... a... (from his hand motion I can tell he means a spring) (I say "a spring!") Yes! you know on door to close... automatic! (as we realize he means when you open a door that has a spring on it to shut it) yes! this is also fajing!!! 

So Basically, Fajing is Coiling power. 

K.:asian:


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## Gaoguy (Apr 12, 2006)

I think your teacher made a good analogy. But fajin isn't coiling power, that's (what we call in Yizong bagua) luoxun jin. Fajin implies that you have jin, or trained power. Fa is to release or express that trained power.


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## marlon (Apr 12, 2006)

Try looking into the chinese kempo of master Chun jr.  They are doing some amazing stuff along these lines

Respectfully,
Marlon


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## Koryuhoka (Apr 17, 2006)

Gaoguy, 

the comment that it is coiling power is from me. I know that it is actually that point that Lao Sih pointed out in the analogy. I understood although I could not verbalize it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





Fajing = release trained power. Interesting. That actually clarifies what Lao Sih said. Like a spring, releasing energy. Not the movement itself but the origin of it... maybe. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Either way, I understand it better now. Thank you.

K.:asian:


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## Gaoguy (Apr 18, 2006)

My pleasure. Sometimes all this stuff gets lost in the "mystery" and it doesn't really need to. Glad I could help in some small way.


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