# Food pricing



## terryl965 (Apr 22, 2008)

I have three very growing childern that just so happens to like Milk, well daddy is thinking about going back to soda pop it is cheaper and last longer, just over the last month I have spent almost 1,200.00 on food for the house and still every two days I go back and but bread, milk and cereal, those alone cast me about 50.00 a week. We go though five gallons of milk a week and we are never really home. I need to get a farm and some dairy cows so I can afford to buy the products to keep my family eating the right way. Anybody else getting sick of eating.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Apr 22, 2008)

terryl965 said:


> I have three very growing childern that just so happens to like Milk, well daddy is thinking about going back to soda pop it is cheaper and last longer, just over the last month I have spent almost 1,200.00 on food for the house and still every two days I go back and but bread, milk and cereal, those alone cast me about 50.00 a week. We go though five gallons of milk a week and we are never really home. I need to get a farm and some dairy cows so I can afford to buy the products to keep my family eating the right way. Anybody else getting sick of eating.


 
I am definately not getting sick of eating or eating out.  However, with the rising costs in fuel and the shocks around the world in the food market it appears that food costs will continue to soar.  So hold on Terry as you may be paying around $1500 a month soon. (sorry)


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## terryl965 (Apr 22, 2008)

Brian R. VanCise said:


> I am definately not getting sick of eating or eating out. However, with the rising costs in fuel and the shocks around the world in the food market it appears that food costs will continue to soar. So hold on Terry as you may be paying around $1500 a month soon. (sorry)


 
That is alright my boys and us love to eat so we will not stop, but I can still get mad about it while I enjoy a great steak.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Apr 22, 2008)

terryl965 said:


> That is alright my boys and us love to eat so we will not stop, but I can still get mad about it while I enjoy a great steak.


 
Yes we all have to eat.  I may however watch a little more what I am buying and cut some corners.


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## terryl965 (Apr 22, 2008)

Brian R. VanCise said:


> Yes we all have to eat. I may however watch a little more what I am buying and cut some corners.


 
For me it is fruit and veggies but they are getting to high as well, so Imay just start to loose wieght by default. My boys by the other hand eat like elephants and need there food every hour.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Apr 22, 2008)

terryl965 said:


> For me it is fruit and veggies but they are getting to high as well, so Imay just start to loose wieght by default. My boys by the other hand eat like elephants and need there food every hour.


 

One of mine is the same way.  The other well not so much.  Like you I may just lose some weight by default.


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## newGuy12 (Apr 23, 2008)

The Wall Street Journal predicts that food prices will continue to go up, in an accelerated pace.  They suggest that you stock up on food now, in order to get the better price:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120881517227532621.html

When the crap REALLY hits the fan, remember, those of you who are qualified, get involved with private security firms, because you will be able to get a job, protecting rich people's  houses.


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## terryl965 (Apr 23, 2008)

newGuy12 said:


> The Wall Street Journal predicts that food prices will continue to go up, in an accelerated pace. They suggest that you stock up on food now, in order to get the better price:
> 
> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120881517227532621.html
> 
> When the crap REALLY hits the fan, remember, those of you who are qualified, get involved with private security firms, because you will be able to get a job, protecting rich people's houses.


 
I need to start a garden very soon.


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## Bob Hubbard (Apr 23, 2008)

Garden's going in next week, and in the fall I'll be freezing and canning for a few days.


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## terryl965 (Apr 23, 2008)

Bob Hubbard said:


> Garden's going in next week, and in the fall I'll be freezing and canning for a few days.


 
Sounds like a great plan.


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## MA-Caver (Apr 23, 2008)

One of the neighbor's chickens gotten loose and is now roosting somewhere in my (step) mother's flower-bed. It's looking awfully tempting right now. 

Rising food costs coincide with rising gas prices as it costs more for the trucks to deliver the food to their destinations. 
But the rising cost of milk is particularly disturbing. It's not as if the cows are going on strike demanding more pay, hell I thought they were on a "eet mor chiken" bent than anything else.


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## elder999 (Apr 23, 2008)

MA-Caver said:


> Rising food costs coincide with rising gas prices as it costs more for the trucks to deliver the food to their destinations.
> But the rising cost of milk is particularly disturbing. It's not as if the cows are going on strike demanding more pay, hell I thought they were on a "eet mor chiken" bent than anything else.


 
Beyond the simple cost of fuel, everything you touch, and every form of energy that you use is wholly dependent upon petroleum fuel.....as are those plastic milk jugs, as are the milking machines that provide the milk, as are the trucks that deliver feed to the cows, as are the machines used to move cows and manure, and to tend pasture, etc., etc., etc......


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## MA-Caver (Apr 23, 2008)

elder999 said:


> Beyond the simple cost of fuel, everything you touch, and every form of energy that you use is wholly dependent upon petroleum fuel.....as are those plastic milk jugs, as are the milking machines that provide the milk, as are the trucks that deliver feed to the cows, as are the machines used to move cows and manure, and to tend pasture, etc., etc., etc......


Yeah, I know. Sadly, I know. Just there are lots of households like Terry's where there are growing children and too many of them are not like Terry who can afford the buying of milk every time it runs out (all due respect to Terry). Thinking of single, holding two jobs parents who are probably trying to make ends meet just to keep the car running to get to those two jobs... let alone buying milk for their little ones. 

My step-sister tells me of how there were months where she could do nothing but make potatoes and beans every day for dinner as a single mother of 3 children. She remarks on how, compared to today's prices that it was probably a lot easier on the pocket. But given rate of inflation and adjustment it was just as hard as it is today.


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## FearlessFreep (Apr 23, 2008)

... and this is where the turnover that healthy food is now much more expensive then cheap junk (milk vs soda) is really going to bite us...


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## Kacey (Apr 23, 2008)

Bob Hubbard said:


> Garden's going in next week, and in the fall I'll be freezing and canning for a few days.



Normally I'd be putting my garden in this weekend, but I will be out of town at a family event this weekend, so it will have to wait until the next weekend.  I've never canned anything, but I freeze quite a bit, and I've been considering investing in a dehydrator for some time.



FearlessFreep said:


> ... and this is where the turnover that healthy food is now much more expensive then cheap junk (milk vs soda) is really going to bite us...



This is somewhat true and somewhat not; healthy food is, _in the long run_, cheaper than junk food, _if you buy it as unprocessed as possible_.  The less processed food is, the less it costs, even if you have to discard some of it because not all of it is usable - think about raisins vs. grapes, for example; you pay more per pound for raisins, because you are paying for the processing (drying) and packaging, while you have to discard the stems from the grapes.  Junk food comes in more convenient, and often smaller, packages, so while the total cost may be lower for junk food, the price per pound between comparable items is almost always lower for unprocessed, healthy foods than for junk.  

To see the real costs, you have to stick to comparing comparable foods - and while soda and milk are both drinks, they are not comparable in their food value.  Soda has virtually no food value, unless you _need_ sugar as a nutrient - say, if you're diabetic and your sugar level is low; milk is considerably more versatile, can be used in many more ways, and has a variety of nutrients.  Candy bars are cheap compared to many fresh fruits, but even though they are often eaten at the same part of a meal (dessert) or as a snack, they are not comparable foods.  The comparison I made previously between grapes and raisins shows _comparable_ foods.  

The place where you really see high costs is in convenience foods.  For example, I grew up on Hamburger Helper... I started buying it myself in college, until one day I looked at the price per ounce, and realized it cost more for the _helper_, intended to _stretch_ the hamburger, than it did for the hamburger itself.  Such things are easy to make yourself, but Americans have been so inculcated into the idea that cooking from scratch requires extensive training, a horrendous amount of time, and a massive variety of ingredients, that many people don't even _try_ cooking from scratch - and it's just not that hard, and it costs less to cook from scratch, or even mostly from scratch (I tend to use cream soups as a sauce base for many things)... and it usually tastes better, too!


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## terryl965 (Apr 23, 2008)

MA-Caver said:


> Yeah, I know. Sadly, I know. Just there are lots of households like Terry's where there are growing children and too many of them are not like Terry who can afford the buying of milk every time it runs out (all due respect to Terry). Thinking of single, holding two jobs parents who are probably trying to make ends meet just to keep the car running to get to those two jobs... let alone buying milk for their little ones.
> 
> My step-sister tells me of how there were months where she could do nothing but make potatoes and beans every day for dinner as a single mother of 3 children. She remarks on how, compared to today's prices that it was probably a lot easier on the pocket. But given rate of inflation and adjustment it was just as hard as it is today.


 

No offense taken and you are right we have set up a little supply shop at the school to help those that need it.


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## MA-Caver (Apr 23, 2008)

terryl965 said:


> No offense taken and you are right we have set up a little supply shop at the school to help those that need it.


Now that is a right mighty wonderful thing to have done. Keep it up. :asian:


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## aedrasteia (Apr 23, 2008)

Yay Kacey!!

Bring back home food!!! Cooking has almost disappeared from most homes - whether done by women or men - i end up teaching friends about things I thought most people knew, really basic stuff. And I have an extra refrigerator with a huge bottom slide out freezer drawer(much better than top or side by side). I buy in quantity, freeze the right way and replace as available. Luckily I grew up helping my aunts cook, can and freeze. 

We've belonged to a food co-op for over 25 years., with about 20 families in it, usually 10-15 active. Every 2 weeks we leave an envelope w/$10 and name in big letters in a box on the porch of a member (same one each time). Each family takes turns picking up the $$ at 6 am, going to our large farmer's market, buying, separating and leaving boxes/bags w/envelope for each family on the porch of another member. Buyers make all the choices, depending on whats in season and covering basic groups: greens, citrus, beans, other fruits, staples and seasonal specials. You pick up sometime during the day. I have to do buying about twice a year. we call it the no- choice, no-hassle, no-name co-op.

Other friends are members of a CSF, (community supported farm) they pay a basic amount to a local small farmer (around $300-400 per yr). Farmer supplies them with whatever comes in all during the growing season, with a pickup every 7-14 days. The farmer benifits from steady $ and families get great bargains.

i'm betting you could organize either of these with folks you know-its a big help for families - but you absolutely have to know how to store, process food and cook it. thats how i ended up teaching friends what to do with 8 pounds of sweet potatos... :->

tonight was stuffed poblano chilies, corn on the cob, homemade corn tortillas and a huge marinated tomato salad. poblanos, corn, onions and tomatos from co-op order, masa flour for tortillas and cheese from our mexican grocery. stuffing was slow-cooked black beans, brown rice, ground turkey, jalapenos and cumin, not much from the big grocery store.

Kids love to cook and it seems to really open up the willingness to eat new things. At 4yrs , Doug was helping me do a lunch for 12, poaching vegetables for salad nicoise - fire!, knives! wierd vegetables!, hunks of meat! whole big fish - with EYES! and then you get to eat stuff!!

what are other people cooking?


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## tellner (Apr 24, 2008)

I've been reading the backs of the financial sections and a number of population and food supply studies. They seem to agree that the speculators have been pulling their money out of the mortgage and securities markets and putting them into agriculture and food commodities. Considering the hash they've made of those I am terrified of what they'll do to basic foodstuffs.

On top of that, there has been a sea-change in the past twenty years. 

For about a century and a half governments have been stockpiling basic commodities like grain to stabilize prices. That way a bad harvest will be an inconvenience, not a disaster. When times are good they keep prices higher for the farmers by buying up surplus. When times are bad that surplus keeps market prices low and buffers the supply. 

In the last couple decades that has broken down. Governments, particularly the US, have abandoned the practice and allowed the world to make do with whatever supplies happen to be on hand. 

The combination along with long-term drought in Australia, bad harvests in India, the "free trade" end of farm subsidies, Chinese demand and the rest is setting us up for a dangerous and unpredictable future. Speculators will do well. Regular wage-earners are screwed. Food riots in Haiti are nothing new. But food riots and "active demonstrations" in Egypt, South Africa, Kenya and the Philippines are a terrifying development.

With any luck we'll go back to a saner less capitalist-fundamentalist food supply regime. If we don't, may G-d have mercy on us. Because food and water are the two things that people will reliably kill each other for without a second thought.


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## Bigshadow (Apr 24, 2008)

newGuy12 said:


> because you will be able to get a job, protecting rich people's  houses.



If you aren't too busy protecting your own.


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## Bigshadow (Apr 24, 2008)

tellner said:


> With any luck we'll go back to a saner less capitalist-fundamentalist food supply regime. If we don't, may G-d have mercy on us. Because food and water are the two things that people will reliably kill each other for without a second thought.



I fear we have not seen the worst of it yet.  We may very well see that here in the USA.  It isn't much of an imaginative stretch in seeing fuel truck hijackings and even killings over fuel, in my opinion.  Crime will rise as a result as people resort to it to feed their families.  If people cannot travel to work or afford their electric bills, and cannot otherwise feed themselves or their families, dissent will follow.

Are these things still considered light and transient causes?


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## Bob Hubbard (Apr 24, 2008)

Anyone see what's happening to rice at the moment?  Sams Club is putting limits on sales citing a huge increase in the price.


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## newGuy12 (Apr 24, 2008)

Bigshadow said:


> If people cannot travel to work or afford their electric bills, and cannot otherwise feed themselves or their families, dissent will follow.



Um... martial law and the police state will follow.




Bigshadow said:


> If you aren't too busy protecting your own.



There are those with no family.  These are the ones poised to benefit from the private security work that will certainly be abundant.  I'm talking houses in gated communities, not the "$1000 Millionaires" who go on and on about free markets and such.  They will "protect their own" until the Man comes to give them the police state.  Then they will certainly PUT DOWN their little pea shooters.  Trust me on this one.

And please note, I am nothing but serious.  I have no children, I hold that to be of supreme importance as we enter into the fruit of the last 8 years of The Empire.


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## newGuy12 (Apr 24, 2008)

Bigshadow said:


> Crime will rise as a result as people resort to it to feed their families.



This is true.  In the US, this will resemble post-occupation Korea, except the people will be a LOT more stupid, and they will have guns.  Also, the "powers that be" are ready to keep their stuff safe.  That's about the long and the short of it.


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## FearlessFreep (Apr 24, 2008)

newGuy12 said:


> There are those with no family.  These are the ones poised to benefit from the private security work that will certainly be abundant.  I'm talking houses in gated communities, not the "$1000 Millionaires" who go on and on about free markets and such.  They will "protect their own" until the Man comes to give them the police state.  Then they will certainly PUT DOWN their little pea shooters.  Trust me on this one.
> 
> And please note, I am nothing but serious.  I have no children, I hold that to be of supreme importance as we enter into the fruit of the last 8 years of The Empire.



After your earlier post I had a serious conversation with my wife about some of these topics and one topic of conversation that came up was about adding firearms training to my MA training...


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## newGuy12 (Apr 24, 2008)

FearlessFreep said:


> After your earlier post I had a serious conversation with my wife about some of these topics and one topic of conversation that came up was about adding firearms training to my MA training...



As I have said before, I _*STRONLY*_ support gun rights, and would encourage anyone to be a RESPONSIBLE gun owner, including training from an accomplished shooter.

However, when the "crack down" comes, remember -- if you raise your gun, you WILL die.  You might take some people out with you, but you will buy the farm.

I myself have reasons NOT to own a gun (though I am legally able to).  I simply don't want the responsibility -- that is all.  I dislike big responsibility, I wish to live care free.  If I were you, though, and had a family to protect, I would have to do this -- to purchase a firearm "just in case", and engage in training with a competent shooter of some sort, hopefully a military veteran.


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## FearlessFreep (Apr 24, 2008)

newGuy12 said:


> As I have said before, I _*STRONLY*_ support gun rights, and would encourage anyone to be a RESPONSIBLE gun owner, including training from an accomplished shooter.
> 
> However, when the "crack down" comes, remember -- if you raise your gun, you WILL die.  You might take some people out with you, but you will buy the farm.
> 
> I myself have reasons NOT to own a gun (though I am legally able to).  I simply don't want the responsibility -- that is all.  I dislike big responsibility, I wish to live care free.  If I were you, though, and had a family to protect, I would have to do this -- to purchase a firearm "just in case", and engage in training with a competent shooter of some sort, hopefully a military veteran.



It's not the crackdown I'm worried about..not yet anyway/  Mostly the 'mob'  to protect my family against as a worst case, and expanding options for some of the...career opportunities you alluded to


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## Bigshadow (Apr 24, 2008)

newGuy12 said:


> Um... martial law and the police state will follow.



Actually, that would be the knee jerk remedy to the chaos.  But at that point it is too late for martial law if the people are organized.  Unfortunately, I don't think the landscape will look very nice as different factions attempt to seize control of various regions or areas.




newGuy12 said:


> They will "protect their own" until the Man comes to give them the police state.  Then they will certainly PUT DOWN their little pea shooters.  Trust me on this one.




I would disagree with you there.  You would be surprised at the weapons and training many civilians have.  Many folks are raised around firearms and are taught at an early age how to use them.  There are many (good and bad, see the show on History channel about gangs in the military) that have been taught military strategy and tactics.  If you envision the stereotypical fat redneck slogging around with their lever action deer rifle like the media portrays, you will be surprised and possibly horrified at the sheer firepower and skill of many in the general population.


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## Bigshadow (Apr 24, 2008)

newGuy12 said:


> However, when the "crack down" comes, remember -- if you raise your gun, you WILL die.  You might take some people out with you, but you will buy the farm.



I complete disagree!  How so.  You can't go it along like "rambo"... again that is the movies.  People will band together, there is strength in numbers (especially trained with weapons).



newGuy12 said:


> I myself have reasons NOT to own a gun (though I am legally able to).



Your reasons are your own and I think they have possibly jaded your views about those that have guns.  Of course that is fine, just don't write off those that do have them and know how to use them.


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## Bigshadow (Apr 24, 2008)

Bob Hubbard said:


> Anyone see what's happening to rice at the moment?  Sams Club is putting limits on sales citing a huge increase in the price.



Yes, I saw that.  Here are a couple of links I was reading (coincidentally) before seeing this thread.

Rice Rationing

More Rice Rationing 

Encouraging Stockpiling


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## MA-Caver (Apr 24, 2008)

Bigshadow said:


> I would disagree with you there.  You would be surprised at the weapons and training many civilians have.  Many folks are raised around firearms and are taught at an early age how to use them.  There are many (good and bad, see the show on History channel about gangs in the military) that have been taught military strategy and tactics.  If you envision the stereotypical fat redneck slogging around with their lever action deer rifle like the media portrays, you will be surprised and possibly horrified at the sheer firepower and skill of many in the general population.


It is probably why, armed with that knowledge of the diversity of Americans and the diversity of temperaments and our relatively lax gun laws that *nobody* has really _tried_ to invade this country in a very long time. It wouldn't be that easy. 
Like Bogart said to the Nazi in Casablanca: "...well major there are certain parts of New York I wouldn't advise you to try and invade..." Same with just about anywhere in the country. If we think the insurgency is bad in Iraq just imagine the insurgency here in this country if the situation was reversed. 
But the same idea goes with inner-American conflict today. Imposing a strict martial law would be a bloody affair indeed. Casualty rate on both sides would be horrendous before it's over. 

But aren't we talking about food pricing??


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## newGuy12 (Apr 24, 2008)

Bigshadow said:


> Your reasons are your own and I think they have possibly jaded your views about those that have guns.



Oh, no.  Nothing of the sort.  I hope the True Patriots all the best, when it comes down to it.




Bigshadow said:


> Of course that is fine, just don't write off those that do have them and know how to use them.


I don't in the least "write off" true shooters.  I have obviously (to me) been misunderstood.  How, I do not know.



Bigshadow said:


> I would disagree with you there. You would be surprised at the weapons and training many civilians have. Many folks are raised around firearms and are taught at an early age how to use them. There are many (good and bad, see the show on History channel about gangs in the military) that have been taught military strategy and tactics. If you envision the stereotypical fat redneck slogging around with their lever action deer rifle like the media portrays, you will be surprised and possibly horrified at the sheer firepower and skill of many in the general population.



Again, I hope for the Best, that the Rebels beat the Empire, I truly do.  Just be advised that they have a lot of hardware that is not broken out yet
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/09/19/wirq319.xml
and a lot of tricks
http://www.dhs.gov/xprevprot/laws/gc_1172767635686.shtm
to keep people down.

And if you think that the "powers that be" are not fully aware of what they will be up against, please think again.

​


MA-Caver said:


> But aren't we talking about food pricing??



We certainly are.  Its just that you are considering the short term, and I am considering the not-so-short-term, when things get, say, "interesting".


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## Bigshadow (Apr 25, 2008)

newGuy12 said:


> And if you think that the "powers that be" are not fully aware of what they will be up against, please think again.​



No doubt.  However, with all that technology, they still have to fight door to door in Iraq.  Hmmmmm.....​


> But aren't we talking about food pricing??


Yes we are.  But less face it, when people are having a hard time getting basic necessities, they will do drastic things.  It really wouldn't take much to send the world we know into chaos.  It is times like this that we are closer to it than many realize.  It is things like this can be markers or signs of more troubles to come.  IMO, it is important to "read the air", to apply someone else's words.


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## Bob Hubbard (Apr 25, 2008)

On the subject of violence: Guy in tee shirt with hunting rifle is not equal to trained military wearing body armour and an assault rifle.


I think we're going to have to adapt for a while. Grow our own, join communes/farm groups/barter. Turn a spare bedroom, unused closet or part of the basement into a hydro farm that will work year round. Tack a mini green house onto the garage. Do things to offset our rising food bills and lowering food quality.


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## Makalakumu (Apr 26, 2008)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007-2008_world_food_price_rises



> The years *20072008* saw dramatic *world food price rises*, bringing a state of *crisis* to some of the poorest regions in the world, and causing political instability and social unrest in several nations.
> 
> Short-term causes include poor harvests in various parts of the world, especially Australia. Systemic causes for the world-wide food price increase have been currently identified as the increasing use of biofuels in developed countries (_see also Food vs fuel_),[1] and an increasing demand for a more varied diet (especially meat) across the expanding middle-class populations of Asia.[2][3] As well, the continued rise in the price of oil has heightened the costs of fertilizers, food transport, and industrial agriculture as a whole. These factors, coupled with falling world food stockpiles and instability brought about by the subprime mortgage crisis, have all contributed to the dramatic world-wide rise in food prices.[4]


 
People laughed at me when I said that turning fuel to food was a crime against humanity.  Now it looks like we'll reap what we sowed...


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## Imua Kuntao (Apr 26, 2008)

Greetings everybody. I am not an alarmest,but so many of you are right and have reason to worry and to take measures to safeguard you and yours, gardens and cutbacks are good to start with. I say try building a group or circle of close friends that you trust to be able to trade with in the future. Also I say watch what you say on the net, someone is always watching us and listening, we are a group of a different kind in our society. Train hard and be healthy for me has been changed to train hard and be smart.


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## 5-0 Kenpo (Apr 26, 2008)

Bob Hubbard said:


> On the subject of violence: Guy in tee shirt with hunting rifle is not equal to trained military wearing body armour and an assault rifle.


 
Guy wearing black pajamas carrying gun made in 1947 (and earlier) not equal to a trained military wearing body armor and an assault rifle???

Guy in Islamic garb carrying gun made in 1947 and living in a cave not equal to trained military wearing body armor and an assualt rifle???

It is not the equipment one uses, but the mindset and techniques of the soldiers using them.


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## Bigshadow (Apr 28, 2008)

Bob Hubbard said:


> is not equal to trained military wearing body armour and an assault rifle.



On the subject of body armor, does those vests stop high powered rifle bullets or just shrapnel and low velocity rounds?  I didn't think they stopped things like the 7.62x39, 7.62x54R, and other high velocity rounds such as .30-06, 7mm mags, .375h&h, .308, .243, .223 (M-16), and stuff like that (BTW, many of these latter calibers are shot in the average hunting rifle).  




Bob Hubbard said:


> I think we're going to have to adapt for a while. Grow our own, join communes/farm groups/barter. Turn a spare bedroom, unused closet or part of the basement into a hydro farm that will work year round. Tack a mini green house onto the garage. Do things to offset our rising food bills and lowering food quality.



I think some of these sound good.


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## Big Don (Apr 28, 2008)

Imua Kuntao said:


> circle of close friends that you trust to be able to trade with in the future.


That then, would be a _Crop Circle_ wouldn't it?


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