# Question



## DAP (Feb 27, 2008)

I currently train in TangSooDo.  I may switch schools because I found a school very close to my house.  It lists the following displines:

Okinawan Shorinji-Ryu Toude Karate-Do
Koryu Seibukan Karate-Do 


Can some explain what these mean.  

Has anyone switched from TangSooSo Okinawan based Karate.  What should I expect?

Thanks for any input...


----------



## cstanley (Feb 27, 2008)

DAP said:


> I currently train in TangSooDo. I may switch schools because I found a school very close to my house. It lists the following displines:
> 
> Okinawan Shorinji-Ryu Toude Karate-Do
> Koryu Seibukan Karate-Do
> ...


 
Shorinji ryu is the style of Joen Nakazato. Toude Karate could mean anything. Koryu used in reference to karate is a stretch. Don't know anything about Seibukan except that it is a latter day style...hence NOT koryu.

RE: Okinawan Karate vs TSD: no high kicks, emphasis on developing a strong punch, kata are more subtle, intricate, and truer to their origins than the Shotokan filtered kata in TSD. Lots of bunkai. Kobudo.


----------



## twendkata71 (Feb 28, 2008)

I don't know about he use of koryu"ancient style" , but the Seibukan, if it is Okinawan would refer to Seibukan Shorin ryu which was founded by Shimabukuro Zenryo,(or Zenpo), one is the son, was a student of Kyan Chotoku. He founded his branch around the 1950's if I remember correctly.
I am not sure why they would use "toude, and karate do " together. toude is an old word for the Okinawan art, and karate do is the newer( as of 1936). Perhap they are trying to make is sound more authentic or older. I would check their credentials.  
The only other Seibukan I know of is the Seibukan international in Japan, which is a Goju ryu school founded by Suzuki Hanshi,(now deceased).
Some of Fuse Kise's students that branched off still call what they teach Shorinji ryu, because Kise Hanshi used was a student of Nakazato's for a while and went back and forth. He has master rank in both Matsumora seito Shorin ryu(from Hohan Soken) and Shorinji ryu.
He now calls what he teaches Kenshinkan Shorin ryu, and or, Matsumora seito Shorin ryu. 
I realize this is a quite lengthy response, but I tried to give you in depth information.
Shorinji ryu, does use some deeper stances than, shorin ryu. Now, Japanese Shorinji ryu is a whole other animal in itself. Its more of a full contact, sport style karate with a traditional base. Depending on which version/school of thought you run into.


----------



## twendkata71 (Feb 28, 2008)

One more note. Shorin ji ryu means' small forest temple style, or the Japanese version of Shoalin temple style, connecting it to the shoalin temple origin of the style.


----------



## searcher (Feb 28, 2008)

Expect more use of front kicks in place of side kicks, slightly higher stances, more cat stance and very little(if any) back stance, more bunkai(application), tighter , more powerful punching and a high level of body conditioning.


----------



## TimoS (Mar 1, 2008)

twendkata71 said:


> I don't know about he use of koryu"ancient style" , but the Seibukan, if it is Okinawan would refer to Seibukan Shorin ryu which was founded by Shimabukuro Zenryo,(or Zenpo), one is the son, was a student of Kyan Chotoku. He founded his branch around the 1950's if I remember correctly



Zenryo Shimabukuro was the founder and Zenpo Shimabukuro, his son, is the current head of style. I guess officially Shorin ryu Seibukan was started when the Seibukan dojo was built, which was apparently in 1962. Of course he was teaching his own version before that, but whether it was already called Seibukan back then, I don't know (but I guess not)


----------



## TimoS (Mar 1, 2008)

cstanley said:


> Shorinji ryu is the style of Joen Nakazato. Toude Karate could mean anything. Koryu used in reference to karate is a stretch. Don't know anything about Seibukan except that it is a latter day style...hence NOT koryu



Koryu in connection with okinawan karate is always a stretch, IMO


----------



## TimoS (Mar 1, 2008)

twendkata71 said:


> Shorinji ryu, does use some deeper stances than, shorin ryu.




I would say that that applies to some but not all Shorin branches. E.g. Seibukan uses quite deep stances



> Now, Japanese Shorinji ryu is a whole other animal in itself. Its more of a full contact, sport style karate with a traditional base



Having done that for a few years, I fully agree, although the traditional base seems to me that they've maintained the kata (and modified them somewhat), but not the bunkai (which was one of the reasons for me to switch to okinawan karate)


----------

