# Lap Sau in the 1st chi sau section



## izeqb (May 24, 2011)

Hi everyone...

I'm training wing chun and I've recently started to learn to the lap-sau drill.

I have a few questions and I'm interested to hear what you guys have to say about this and how you do it in your linage...

*Lap-sau without turning:*

In my linage (which is a descentant of leung ting, but we do things more and more like wong sheung lung) we start by doing lap-sau without turning.

Also, the attacker (A from here on) leaves his non-attacking hand in wu-sau.

The defender (D from here on) makes a bong (without turning) the moment he feel the lap. D keeps his other hand in wu-sau position..

Now, we only do the lap-sau drill this way for a short period of time and it could be seen as a "dan-chi sau" exercise...

*Lap-Sau with turning:
*

The next step is obviously to turn when doing bong-sau, to deflect the attack.

So, A will punch with his right, he'll get diagonal contact with D's right arm, do a lap-sau motion, while striking with his left arm. A will leave his right hand on D's arm/wrist.

D will (the moment he feels the lap) make a bong-sau and when he get contact with A's left arm (which is punching) he will turn and deflect.

The D will strike, get diagonal contact en the cycle reverse.

Now, I've seen a lot of videos and discussed this with a lot of fellow chunners... I believe there's a principle in wing chun called "never two hands on one" or something like that...

But in this particular case, it seems that this concept is being ignored... 

Why is that?

I can understand, that if you'd only have one hand on the bong sau, then the bong could turn into tan-sau or fark-sau (depending on the pressure), but then again... If the pressure is not 100% straight into the centerline of the opponent, the bong-sau can still transform into either tan- or fark-sau...

*How do you guys do this drills in your linage and why?*


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## wtxs (May 24, 2011)

izeqb said:


> Hi everyone...
> 
> I'm training wing chun and I've recently started to learn to the lap-sau drill.
> 
> ...



As you had pointed out yourself ... it's a training drill, hopefully will one day leads to the concept of " "one hand against his two".

Keep your eyes open and mind alert, like baby steps one at a time ... you have to learn to learn to walk with your legs/feet before you can use them to run with.


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## cwk (May 25, 2011)

What WTXS said. One of my favourite little "tricks" came from this drill. When my opponent attempts a lap da ( or equivalent in their system ) I like to bong to trap both arms up on my arm and simultaneously hit them with a pao choi ( usually with leopard fist hand formation ) that slips under my bong and into their throat. The strike is a very short, very quick strike that whips in and snaps back instantly so they don't really have time to see it coming and try to drop their arms. If your in a front stance when they grab you, it's best to go with the pull and step in so your square on for this to work best.

Sorry if this is taking the thread a little off track, it was the first thing that came to mind when talking about 2 hands on one from the bong sao.


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## mook jong man (May 25, 2011)

izeqb said:


> Hi everyone...
> 
> I'm training wing chun and I've recently started to learn to the lap-sau drill.
> 
> ...



If we are just doing the standard thing where we are in close proximity , then we will not pivot .

But if the bloke is coming in hard from some ways back then we will definitely pivot to redirect that force so as to  avoid being uprooted out of our stance .

The never two hands on one thing is a load of ***** quite frankly , because it depends on the circumstances.
Obviously we would always prefer to control or deflect with one hand and strike with the other which is what we should be doing where ever possible.

But when there is a large discrepancy in the size and strength of the combatants or a lot of force coming in then sometimes a two handed deflection is required.

If you have a 120 kg heavy set male throwing a spinning back fist at a diminutive framed 45 kg woman , instead of moving in with the standard Tan Sau  and palm strike to the kidneys and risk having the Tan Sau  collapse  , it may be more appropriate for her two throw up to Fook Sau's first  and then apply something from there .


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## wtxs (May 25, 2011)

mook jong man said:


> The never two hands on one thing is a load of ***** quite frankly , because it depends on the circumstances.



Stop being so logical already, you are bursting all kinds of bubbles.


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## Haris Lamboo Faisal (May 25, 2011)

Some People use two hands , i use my pinky finger to deflect roundhouse kicks, in then i use the same pinky finger to disembowel my opponent because in Russia we are professionals haha \m/


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## mook jong man (May 25, 2011)

Haris Lamboo Faisal said:


> Some People use two hands , i use my pinky finger to deflect roundhouse kicks, in then i use the same pinky finger to disembowel my opponent because in Russia we are professionals haha \m/



I'll have half a kilo of whatever it is you've been smoking Haris.   :supcool:


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## Haris Lamboo Faisal (May 25, 2011)

mook jong man said:


> I'll have half a kilo of whatever it is you've been smoking Haris.   :supcool:



Hahaha the dope's on its way mook  ... in my last post i was inspired by a troll with severe issues at grasping reality and well lets just say the OP was enough for me to roflmfao http://martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=91715


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## yak sao (May 25, 2011)

Haris Lamboo Faisal said:


> Hahaha the dope's on its way mook  ... in my last post i was inspired by a troll with severe issues at grasping reality and well lets just say the OP was enough for me to roflmfao http://martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=91715


 

I went to that link ......I'm going to have to venture out of the WC forum more often....I could have had fun with that one


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## Haris Lamboo Faisal (May 25, 2011)

yak sao said:


> I went to that link ......I'm going to have to venture out of the WC forum more often....I could have had fun with that one



LoL i was gonna recommend a chainsaw


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## zepedawingchun (May 25, 2011)

I thought it was funny, this dude thought he needed any kind of weapons other than firearms.  To me, his choice was a little on the weak and un-educated side, especially talking about not having or considering developing any weapons training skills. 

*why i shouldnt mount the uk-sfk on the end of a 7 ft lignum vitae pole and call it the worlds most practical real life combat spear?*

The first thing that struck me was any beginner Kali student with two ratan sticks would blast right past him and his spear in 2 seconds and drop him immediately.  If he was to run into someone experienced, with real blades such as a broadsword, katana, darn dao, butterfly swords, etc, he'd be done in, in a matter of seconds.


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## zepedawingchun (May 25, 2011)

Haris Lamboo Faisal said:


> LoL i was gonna recommend a chainsaw


 
Don't forget to stock gasoline, and recycle it often cause even gas goes bad.


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## Eric_H (May 25, 2011)

In Hung Fa Yi, we don't have a Lop Sau drill like I did in YM wing chun. 

We have a Kiu Sao (bridge arm) set called Bong/Lop Kiu sao which is for changing the shape of space, how to move in and out while challenging your opponent's elbow consistently. This one primarily uses the Eagle Bong Sao (straight wrist).

We also have a drilling set called Hok Bong Gong Yao Faat (Crane Wing hard/soft method) which is about learning hard and soft energies, how to re-orient yourself when someone tries to grab and pull your arm and then replace one arm for another without giving up center space.


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## Haris Lamboo Faisal (May 25, 2011)

zepedawingchun said:


> Don't forget to stock gasoline, and recycle it often cause even gas goes bad.



hehe .. im not one of those guys who thinks an apocalypse is coming Z specially not a zombie apocalypse though if it were hypothetical it mighta shown some sanity in the guy's demeanor,it was just funny how the guy kept giving huge arguments with so many contradictions in it that a twelve year old could see that there was something really wrong with this guy ... what it allowed me to deduce about him was that he has a certain sort of dis-attatchment from the world which i might have seen before in one or two individuals and well its only a matter of his perspective being corrupted , But then it just became sad so i thought **** it ... i mean the dude was convinced that an apocalypse was gonna come within his lifetime. and that he was gonna train for it after it came and right now he was just stacking up using money for buying seeds and food which he is never gonna use instead of saving up for emergencies ,you know stuff like kid's education etc. A sad contradiction in itself that shows how much he didnt believe what he was saying rather he wanted an apocalypse to come he was probably prisoner or outcast to his social circle TT... these issues stem from other things and i'm pretty sure the kid wasnt trolling, anywho im not gonna bore you with a psychoanalysis. and i dont wanna mislead the thread.
Peace Haris


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## Haris Lamboo Faisal (May 25, 2011)

izeqb said:


> Hi everyone...
> 
> I'm training wing chun and I've recently started to learn to the lap-sau drill.
> 
> ...



Sorry to mislead the thread but i got carried away a little anyway ... since you're probably a little farther than i am in WC i can try to make up for it by showing you a few videos that you might find interesting 




You should watch all the parts i think there are four very interesting how the guys explained it to each other a definite attention to detail aswell.


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## izeqb (May 29, 2011)

Haris Lamboo Faisal said:


> Sorry to mislead the thread but i got carried away a little anyway ... since you're probably a little farther than i am in WC i can try to make up for it by showing you a few videos that you might find interesting
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That's actually very interresting... thanks mate!


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## yak sao (May 29, 2011)

I like the laid back family atmosphere...that is very much like our group


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