# Weapons Training



## Disco (Feb 14, 2003)

If this subject has been discussed before, please disreguard. But if you would be so kind, advise me where to look for it........

What is the PRACTICAL value of wepons training if you live in America. Our laws won't let you carry these weapons. Noe remember, the operative word here is practical........


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## MartialArtist (Feb 14, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Disco _
> *If this subject has been discussed before, please disreguard. But if you would be so kind, advise me where to look for it........
> 
> What is the PRACTICAL value of wepons training if you live in America. Our laws won't let you carry these weapons. Noe remember, the operative word here is practical........ *


Laws in the US won't permit carrying weapons?  No, that is not true.  For handguns, you do need a concealed weapon license if you want to carry it around for self-defense.

You can carry a bat, sticks, etc. legally though.

Practical lessons for what types of weapons?  Using weapons or defending against weapons?  Using weapons, you can take arnis or escrima.  You can also take other arts that incorporate some type of weapons training.


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## Cryozombie (Feb 14, 2003)

Ok, 
so you are walking down the street, weaponless.  Some Thug comes up to you with a Bat, or knife, or chain, or whatever he happens to be carrying.   In the garbage can next to you is a Broken Golf club, or your "Auto Club" steering wheel lock is on the seat next to you, or there is a piece of 2x4...

In Certain situations improvising a weapon from what is at hand is probably a great idea... and while your Dojo may not teach "Combat Golf Club" im sure you can see how training with a weapon can still be practical if you pick one up and compare its use to somthing else... say a sword, hanbo, etc...

And depending WHERE you live you may or may NOT be able to carry a weapon.  I carry two... legaly where I am, in a suburb of Chicago, a Kuboton on my keyring, and a CRKT M-16 Folding Tanto... I have had training with both... and I have to say that I feel that training with both was a practical thing and a good addition to my "martial arts arsenal"

And that doesnt even go into the "Help, I am at home and there is a Burglar and I have my Katana at hand..."


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## 7starmantis (Feb 14, 2003)

I don't think there is much of a practicle application to some weapons ie, the monk spade, but they are historic and are advanced to learn. The strength and agility if you will, that you receive is practicle. The staff can translate into many weapons, broom stick, pool que, metal pipe, etc. These can be practicle.


7sm


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## Zepp (Feb 14, 2003)

I would think that any art that teaches you how to use a weapon would also help you to defend against weapons when you don't have one.

Well, maybe not swords.  You'd need some kind object in your hands in that case.  But certainly against knives and blunt weapons.


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## Phil Elmore (Feb 14, 2003)

Weapons all operate according to specific principles -- principles of physics.  Learn to use a variety of different weapons and you will be able to defend yourself against those same weapons (for you've learned the principles that govern them if the instruction was good) -- but, more importantly, you've _learned to deal with any weapons that operate on the same principles_.  There are only so many ways a weapon can be used or designed and still be useful to an individual human being.

Perhaps most significant of all, though, is the fact that you are quite literally surrounded by weapons everywhere you go.  Improvised weapons are as close as the nearest pen and as benign in appearance as the nearest can of soda.

Learn weapons and you will never be unarmed, regardless of what you carry.


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## Matt Stone (Feb 14, 2003)

Weapons training is important not only for the skill with weapons (standard or improvised) that is developed, but for the impact such training has on your empty handed skills...

From sword training your grip becomes strong, your eyes become attentive, your timing becomes sharp as a razor.

From staff training, your grip becomes more effective in joint locking techniques and throws, your footwork improves and your concept of extension of technique beyond the body develops.

From stick training (as in arnis of whatever kind), your timing becomes more focused (more than can often be developed in sword training, simply due to the nature of potential injuries possible from each kind of training - you will likely survive a few missed stick shots, but missing a cut with a sword could potentially hamper your training permanently!), your understanding of techniques beyond what you are performing immediately (i.e. subsequent techniques) improves, and your ability to deal with multiple strikes from the opponent increases drastically.

There is more to empty handed benefits from weapons training than people give credit to.

Gambarimasu.
:asian:


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## Despairbear (Feb 15, 2003)

In addition to the ability to use a defend from a weapon. I have always felt that wepaons training teaches movement and timing that is sometimes harder to pick up without a weapon. Some times in Aikido a throw will be shown to a new person while they have a bokken in their hand, some of the esoteric moves make more sence when you realise they where derived from sword combat.



Despair Bear


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## ace (Feb 15, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Disco _
> *If this subject has been discussed before, please disreguard. But if you would be so kind, advise me where to look for it........
> 
> What is the PRACTICAL value of wepons training if you live in America. Our laws won't let you carry these weapons. Noe remember, the operative word here is practical........ *



Try modern Arnis or Bando.
I Find Both to be verry good on this subject


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## Master of Blades (Feb 15, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Despairbear _
> *In addition to the ability to use a defend from a weapon. I have always felt that wepaons training teaches movement and timing that is sometimes harder to pick up without a weapon. Some times in Aikido a throw will be shown to a new person while they have a bokken in their hand, some of the esoteric moves make more sence when you realise they where derived from sword combat.
> 
> 
> ...



Well said...........I have found the same thing. Doing Kali has made my responses when about to be hit with something a lot better cuz I actually know where I need to grab etc and not just flail around like a little girl (Not that I did that anyway).


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## Cryozombie (Feb 15, 2003)

> Well, maybe not swords.  You'd need some kind object in your hands in that case.  But certainly against knives and blunt weapons. [/B]



Actually, we do a lot of unarmed against the sword.  I myself am not very good at it... id be afraid to try it unless I absolutley had no choice at this point... But ive seen guys with Dan ranks (or close to it)  take swords away like they had no blade on em at all...


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## DAC..florida (Feb 15, 2003)

I have just finished teaching my law enforcement class how to defend against an edge weapon attack, I guess that you could assume that i respect weapons training and feel that it is very practical.

As far as teaching weapons if your dojo competes than regardless of the wether you feel thier practical or not you must teach them. If your asking if teaching students weapons like swords,tonfa,bo staff.sai ect. is going to help a student against some thug.....than no thier not practical.


Hard training breeds warriors....


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## MartialArtist (Feb 15, 2003)

> _Originally posted by DAC..florida _
> *I have just finished teaching my law enforcement class how to defend against an edge weapon attack, I guess that you could assume that i respect weapons training and feel that it is very practical.
> 
> As far as teaching weapons if your dojo competes than regardless of the wether you feel thier practical or not you must teach them. If your asking if teaching students weapons like swords,tonfa,bo staff.sai ect. is going to help a student against some thug.....than no thier not practical.
> ...


You really misunderstand the concept of indirect training.

Do you know how fast you need to be and how coordinated you have to be to use a sai?  It helps on response time, and most people who practice using the sai don't use it but you can throw a punch out of the blue and then all of a sudden you wonder why you got hit.

A lot of boxers do indirect training.  I know this one guy who would get a long pole and do jabs and slashes with it and the students could only dodge it (slipping, weaving, bobbing, and at times, rolling).  Then, he would give them this tiny, 7" stick and they had to now block it.


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## pesilat (Feb 17, 2003)

Most of what I'm about to say has already been said in this thread, I think. But oh well ... here's my 2 cents.

I feel that weapons training is useful for several reasons:
1) It can help your empty hands development ... coordination is coordination
2) The principles applied with, for instance, a bo are just as applicable with a pool cue. The principles applied with a stick are just as applicable with a cane. The principles applied with a palm stick are just as applicable with a cell phone.
3) Weapons are (for most people) fun so can be a nice change of pace to keep people interested ... and if you tie the training back to 1 & 2, then it's completely practical as well. 

Training with weapons can ingrain the principles of weapon usage into your body. Then, no matter what you pick up, it can be used as a weapon.

Personally, I think one of the biggest advantages to weapons is that, unlike my body, they don't bleed or feel pain. So I'll use any inanimate object I can get my hands on if it'll help prevent me from bleeding or feeling pain.

The world is chock full of weapons. Training with weapons helps you see this and helps you understand how to use various items.

Mike


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## Cryozombie (Feb 18, 2003)

Very Well said!


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