# Kata and Bunkai



## Brandon Fisher (Aug 21, 2008)

I was thinking about this, how many of you teach the Tuite, Kyusho, Kansetsu Waza, kuzushi and Nage Waza found in kata to your students.  Also how many teach bunkai in henka and oyo versions.

If you don't why not?  If you do why do you and at what point?


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## Makalakumu (Aug 21, 2008)

I'm trying.  I do this because I feel that it gives the practice of kata more meaning.  I learned a martial art that used kata as competition pieces though, so basically, all I have left is to go back and reverse engineer.  The good news is that I've trained in several different arts and I know what good throws and good joint locks look like.  

I'm really excited because I may have a chance to train one on one with a godan in Isshinryu.  I feel that this will give me a better view regarding kata bunkai then anything I've done so far on my own.  

I guess the bottom line, in my honest opinion, is that karate isn't karate without kata.  And kata are nothing but dances without bunkai.


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## Brandon Fisher (Aug 21, 2008)

Thats good that you are making an effort.  Its sad that so much is lost in the teaching because someone wants to focus on competition and not substance.  If I can help in anyway please let me know.

Who's next?


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## twendkata71 (Aug 21, 2008)

I teach the basic bunkai, tegumi, oyo from about the early green belt.   I start teaching the more advanced parts when a student is at ikkyu and shodan.  I don't teach a lot of bunkai to children, especially the kyushu jutsu. When I feel that a student has been with me long enough and is trustworthy then I will start teaching the hidden waza of the kata.  Many students are not ready until shodan and sometimes nidan.  It all depends.


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## Hyper_Shadow (Aug 22, 2008)

Bunkai is what Kata was made for; oyo, henka and kakushi waza. It was made so farmers and poorer folk didn't get cut down for publicly practicing martial arts. To practice it without clear sight of it's purpose is restrictive to the growth of the practitioner.
The absolute fact is that Kata is one of the very few definitive and unchangeable records of okinawan martial arts.


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## astrobiologist (Aug 22, 2008)

I've been training for about 20 years.  Having come from a Korean style (Tang Soo Do), I never knew anything about bunkai.  My first instructor, Chong Soo Kim, never taught anything about the applications of the forms we were learning because he has never known any of the applications.  Indeed, most Tang Soo Do and Tae Kwon Do practitioners are never taught bunkai.  If they are taught applications of their forms, it's usually the stupid explanation.  Such as with the first three moves of Pinan Shodan/Heian Nidan/Pyung Ahn Eedan (all the same form, just small differences); so many of us are taught that we're blocking a hammerfist from one opponent high while blocking a punch or a kick from another opponent with the other arm.  I can't stand that explanation.  Is it possible that such a situation while ever arise?  Maybe, but most likely not.   

Recently, my father and his wife and I have begun training with master Jay S. Penfil.  Beyond being a Master of Tang Soo Do, he is also a Master of teaching bunkai.  He has introduced us to bunkai, henka, and oyo.  Since all of the original Tang Soo Do hyung are really just slightly changed (and in some cases renamed) Shotokan kata, what we're learning may be fairly similar to how many Karate practioners practice their bunkai.  I'm only beginning with the study, but the bunkai, henka, and oyo for our techniques are truly opening my eyes and expanding my martial ability like I never thought possible.


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## Ray B (Aug 22, 2008)

This is something I compiled from different discussion boards for my students.

Okuden = Secret or Hidden transmission
Ohyo = Application
Bunkai = Analysis
Omote = Conspicuous, Obvious
Ura = Inconspicuous, Not so obvious
Henka = Variation
Waza = Technique
Kihon = Basic

Okuden Ohyo Waza = Secret application techniques
Ohyo Omote Waza = Conspicuous application technique
Ohyo Ura Waza = Inconspicuous application technique
Ohyo Henka Waza = Alternate application technique

It is my opinion that every school has it's Ohyo Omote Waza.
It can be seen in the variation of kata. This should not be changed. It retains the shape
of the kata and teaches the basic defense of the system (Ryuha). This waza is
somtimes referred to as Kihon Bunkai or just Bunkai depending on the Ryuha.
The Ohyo Ura Waza can change per person to adapt to size, height or ability.
This is sometimes referred to as Bunkai Ohyo or just Ohyo, again, depending
on the Ryuha.
Any waza can be Ohyo Henka Waza.

What do I teach and when?
Juniors (under 14) I only teach omote or kihon ohyo waza. Block and
punch. Teens I teach locks and escapes. Once they have shown me that
they are mature enough, I show some nastier bits. I do not have one set
of ohyo waza for any one combination.


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## Brandon Fisher (Aug 23, 2008)

Ray,
Very well done!!


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## Victor Smith (Aug 24, 2008)

Ray, very interesting.

Coming from the era where there were no applications studied for kata, both in my own art and at many other schools I trained with, and moving step by step to understand kata's potential I observed the rise of new terminology such as 'bunkai'.

Your list covers many interesting examples, but i wonder about all of them. I was just reading Pat Nakata's post on Terminology at http://karatejutsu.blogspot.com/2007/12/guest-post-terminology.html where he wrote "As soon as I started learning from Chibana Sensei, I noticed that he used very little terminology, choosing to demonstrate instead. Discussing this with Chibana Sensei, he pointed out that in the old days (when he was a student), there were no set terminology. Teaching was done with standard conversational Hogen (Okinawan) or Japanese. Actually, there were very little explanations, because as much as possible all techniques and movements were demonstrated."

THis seems consistent with numerous other instructors's observations on Okinawan training in the older ways.

Personally I have nothing against how anyone is trained or which answers they use, but as I've been restricted to mostly logical analysis of kata technique from friends sharings of their arts (at times rather deep) and my own efforts I don't think most of those terms touch the surface..

I once had a visiting Japanese English teacher explain to me that in normal japanese bunkai is not understood as a martial term. He had studied Shorinji Kempo through university and had no idea what I was talking about till I did quite a bit of explanation.

The way the average Japanese would understand bunkai is to take your car to a mechanic and have them bunkai the car (take it apart) to fix it.

Now as it developed in martial circles bunkai does take things apart, but to study and practice their usage, quite a different use of the term from standard Japanese, he concluded.

I even questioned  Mario McKenna about how Mabuni used the term bunkai in his 1933 'Goshin Karate Kempo' and he checked and explained the full usage was Mabuni used the term "bunkai setsumei" or "breakdown/apart and explanation".

In my undersanding any technique may have uncountable potential uses. Over 20 yeras ago I was looking at Seisan Kata's opening section from over 50 different application potentials, all of which follow the kata and work. Later I studed a little with Sherman Harill and in that brief time saw 800 applications from Isshinryu's 8 kata (all of which I have documented) and that was not everything he would approach, just that which he shared in a series of open clinics.

Is it the case that the use of such specific terminology actually focuses on just a small part of karate's potential. Not that that's bad either, just a question.


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## Ray B (Aug 25, 2008)

Victor,

As you know, terminology is as varied as there are schools. Even within
a Ryuha, terms for the same movement may vary. That is why I listed the
words and their translations. Heck, I just call it basic/primary ohyo and
advanced/scondary ohyo.

Standardization didn't start until karate came to the Japanese Universities.
This was so students of one university could compete/train with students
of other schools without confusion. Prior to that, students were personally
picked and dojos were small. Your only contact with your chosen art was
between you and your dojo mates. Everyone was on the same page.
Now-a-days we have so many different avenues of comunication, that
talking on boards like these becomes difficult without common ground.

Should there be a standard terminology for all of karate?
IMO, no. I love the diversity of the different Ryuha.


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## Hyper_Shadow (Aug 26, 2008)

> Should there be a standard terminology for all of karate?
> IMO, no. I love the diversity of the different Ryuha.



Variety is the spice of life. Besides it makes it more fun when we all get together for a big ol' punch up. Seriously though, that variety is what gives us all a greater scope of martial intellect. If we study specific areas based on each individual combative approach we are going to be a lot more productive (providing we take notice of other peoples views without being narrow minded). We're also gonna be a lot more well deifined as individuals and not get labelled with the dreaded McDojo slogan.


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## chinto (Sep 2, 2008)

we train in the bunkai and applications of kata all the time.. all of them.. I really enjoy that part of the class too.


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