# Liberty and Martial Arts and Do



## Makalakumu (Nov 14, 2010)

When I think of the self defense aspects of my art, I've begun to think of them as training myself to resist the unjust use of force against me.  Training in martial arts has helped me understand why the First Amendment is backed up by the Second Amendment, for example.  

For me, teaching it has become a way of introducing people into the concept of liberty by explaining what it means to be a free man and then explaining the concept of force and what that entails.  Do you think these ideals could be incorporated into the concept of Do?  Is this just a Westerner's view on the concept?  What do you think?


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## David43515 (Nov 14, 2010)

What a good question.  I think that deciding that you, and only you, have any say in how much force you`ll tolerate someone using on you (ie: you define your own boundries) is a VERY western concept. But from what I understand of the concept of a "Do" the main focus is turning the practitioner into a better person via whatever that art may be (Unarmed MA, Fencing, Archery, Flower arranging, Tea ceremony, or my wife`s fav calligraphy). So by that rather broad definition, I`d answer yes 100% of the time. Teaching a person they have rights that can`t be taken away from them implies that others have these rights too, and they must be respected. Being aware of that makes for a more polite society. Maybe more compassionate and respectful too. And isn`t that a fair enough definition of a better person?


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## chrispillertkd (Nov 14, 2010)

"I shall be a champion of freedom and justice."
- From the Taekwon-Do Student Oath, Gen. Choi Hong Hi.

Pax,

Chris


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## Thesemindz (Nov 15, 2010)

I'm an anarchist, and I believe that the two, (individual anarchism and philosophical martial arts practice), are deeply intertwined concepts which arise from self discipline, personal honor, and individual potential. I could not divorce the two concepts in my mind, as they define who I am.

But the karate school is no place for politics. It is the place for karate. It is the Way place. There is no place for anything but budo there. We may be men and women, statists, religionists, vegetarians, whatever. That is beyond the doors of the training hall. Once I bow at the edge of the training mat and put on my gi and belt, I am karateka.

The Way deserves this much.

I believe in teaching philosophy and character. That is a part of what separates a martial artist from an accomplished thug. But the pursuit is inward. The discipline is self discipline. We make ourselves better.

The world will naturally follow.


-Rob


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## Xue Sheng (Nov 15, 2010)

From my Sanda sifu, born, raised and trained in China

Sanda is not better or worse than any other martial art, it is just a quick way to learn how to hurt someone very badly. It is also a great way to stay in shape

He also will not teach just anyone because if this since he does not want to be responsible for training someone that will just use it to hurt people.

My Taiji sifu also born, raised and trained in China... it is a great way to stay healthy.

From what I can tell, liberty has nothing to do with it

And to be honest, IMO, it has nothing to do with "Do" or the CMA Tao. It would be a westernization of "do" and if that works for you that is great but IMO it is not "Do"


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## Makalakumu (Nov 15, 2010)

Are we so sure that the concept of liberty is divorced from Do, that it is political, and that it is not found in traditional arts?  In the Bubishi, the so called "bible of karate", self defense is stressed as a way of preventing one man from using force against you to deprive you of life, liberty, and/or property.  1/3 of the book is devoted to the philosophic aspects of self defense and proper use of force.  

From a Western point of view, it sounds like Liberty to me.  They may not call it that, but that is what it sounds like.


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## Xue Sheng (Nov 15, 2010)

&#8220;Do&#8221; is the way and the way is suppose to lead one to the very center of humanity and Nature itself

Karatedo, Kendo, kado, shodo, budo, etc.

Do in and of itself is simply the way. 

If you are saying liberty is part of &#8220;Do&#8221; then no it is not. If you are saying you could practice something like Liberty-Do or the way of liberty then maybe yes.

If you are looking at it forma Chinese perspective then everything comes from the Tao and I suppose that would include liberty but it is not necessarily something you separate from the Tao just like you do not separate living, breathing and dying from the Tao... but to study the Tao is not to study living, breathing, dying or liberty...


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## Yondanchris (Feb 14, 2011)

maunakumu said:


> When I think of the self defense aspects of my art, I've begun to think of them as training myself to resist the unjust use of force against me.  Training in martial arts has helped me understand why the First Amendment is backed up by the Second Amendment, for example.
> 
> For me, teaching it has become a way of introducing people into the concept of liberty by explaining what it means to be a free man and then explaining the concept of force and what that entails.  Do you think these ideals could be incorporated into the concept of Do?  Is this just a Westerner's view on the concept?  What do you think?



I think that our concept of freedom is vastly different than the east and our concepts of "do" are also different. 
In the west we view the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution as our paradigm, 
versus the east views religion and the reality of communism as theirs. 
Even within the west's view of "Do" there are multiple permutations based on culture, heritage, and religion. 
For example I am a Caucasian, Californian, and Southern Baptist Minister each of these infrastructures 
influence my paradigm and thus my idea of "Do". 
We all have our own understanding of "do" and our influences are many and varied, 
that's why I believe western (American) martial arts and "Do" is so varied. 

On a side note Christians where first called "the way" well before they where ever called Christians:

Acts 9:1-2 NKJV
"Then &#65279;Saul, still breathing threats and murder against the disciples of the Lord, went to the high priest &#65279;
and asked &#65279;letters from him to the synagogues of Damascus, so that if he found any who were of _the Way_, 
whether men or women, he might bring them bound to Jerusalem." (Italics and underlines are mine) 

Acts 19:23 NKJV
"&#65279;23&#65279; And &#65279;&#65279;about that time there arose a great commotion about &#65279;_the Way_."
(Italics and Underlines are mine) 

Acts 24:14 NKJV
"But this I confess to you, that according to _&#65279;__the Way_ which they call a sect, so I worship the &#65279;God of my fathers,
believing all things which are written in &#65279;the Law and in the Prophets" (Italics and Underlines are mine) 


 Just thought I would share! 

Chris


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