# Psychology of Confrontation Theory



## Dominic Jones

Dr Ron Chapel recently talked about the 4 Stages of Range.  When talking of the 1 Stage (Out of Range/Contact) he mentioned that it has a sub-category called Psychology of Confrontation Theory.

In my opinion important information regarding Stage 1 (Out of Range/Contact) includes the following areas of study:
1.	5 Stages of a Violent Crime- see Marc Animal MacYoung and Dianna Gordon http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/five_stages.html
2.	Ritualized Combat see Darren Laurs  Street 101 http://members.shaw.ca/tmanifold/laur.htm
3.	Bodies reaction to fear/stress see Darren Laurs and Bruce Siddles The Anatomy of Fear http://stickgrappler2.tripod.com/street/anatfear.html
4.	The Psychological Cost of Learning to Kill" see Dave Grossman http://www.killology.com/article_onkilling.htm
5.	Your Gut Instinct, see Gavin De Becker The Gift of Fear  http://www.gavindebecker.com/books-gof.cfm

I am interested in this sub-category Psychology of Confrontation Theory.  If possible Dr Chapel could you expand on this?

Cheers Dom :asian:


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## Doc

Dominic Jones said:
			
		

> Dr Ron Chapel recently talked about the 4 Stages of Range.  When talking of the 1 Stage (Out of Range/Contact) he mentioned that it has a sub-category called Psychology of Confrontation Theory.
> 
> In my opinion important information regarding Stage 1 (Out of Range/Contact) includes the following areas of study:
> 1.	5 Stages of a Violent Crime- see Marc Animal MacYoung and Dianna Gordon http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/five_stages.html
> 2.	Ritualized Combat see Darren Laurs  Street 101 http://members.shaw.ca/tmanifold/laur.htm
> 3.	Bodies reaction to fear/stress see Darren Laurs and Bruce Siddles The Anatomy of Fear http://stickgrappler2.tripod.com/street/anatfear.html
> 4.	The Psychological Cost of Learning to Kill" see Dave Grossman http://www.killology.com/article_onkilling.htm
> 5.	Your Gut Instinct, see Gavin De Becker The Gift of Fear  http://www.gavindebecker.com/books-gof.cfm
> 
> I am interested in this sub-category Psychology of Confrontation Theory.  If possible Dr Chapel could you expand on this?
> 
> Cheers Dom :asian:



Well sir, you have posted some recommended books on the subject (of which "Gift of Fear" is the only one I suggest), so I'm left to presume you've done some significant reading (5 books) on the topic. I'd be interested in your understanding and views of this component so that I might expand my perspective based on what you have gleaned from your reading.


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## Kembudo-Kai Kempoka

Careful, Dom.  If that doesn't sound like a chess-master baiting you to move your pawn to open your queen, not sure what does.

Good Luck,

Dave


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## Doc

Kembudo-Kai Kempoka said:
			
		

> Careful, Dom.  If that doesn't sound like a chess-master baiting you to move your pawn to open your queen, not sure what does.
> 
> Good Luck,
> 
> Dave



Not at all actually. I am as much a student as a teacher, and when you stand up in class and recommend 5 books on the topic of discussion, I have to presume you have done some extensive research on the topic, and actually have read those books, and have at least formed an opinion on some aspects of the topic. I know when posters like rmrobertson suggest reading material, he's not just spewing random titles, or suggesting others go out and read books he hasn't read himself.

It is easy to ask questions, but those that know me also know I take significant time and make a considerable effort to answers questions reasonably complete and concise to convey real information. It is only reasonable to expect the same from those who would participate that I might learn other points of view and therefore grow myself. I am not a "knowitall," I  just want to "knowitall" as any good student should be.

Mr. Parker used to become frustrated when students would ask questions that require complex and lengthy answers, which he supplied only to have the student reply, "I see." (or not at all). He was from the school that said, "You gotta put in the work, if you really want to get something out of it."

Students should avoid questions like, "So what's up with the universe?" 

Check!


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## Kembudo-Kai Kempoka

So...what is up with the universe? :boing2: 

I enjoy reading your posts, even if I don't understand half of what you've said, and think I may disagree with the half I think I do understand. I think.

Cogito, ergo, Con-sum. I think, therefore I drink (Philosophers Bar, Cali-Frisco).

I haven't read these books, yet, and as a former communication psychologist, find the phrase "Psychology of Confrontation Theory" itself quite interesting, if not poorly formed in description.  I, too, have been checking in on this thread for elaborations on what exactly the phrase means, both as a theoretical construct, as well as an application.

Do you, Doc, have any recommended resources (reading) on Confrontation Theory as referred to here, so that one might be able to follow along in an informed manner? Which, if any, of the above titles would you recommend reading first as an overview or primer? For now, at least, I have some time on my hands with which to read avocationally.

Respectfully,

Dr. Dave


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## Doc

Kembudo-Kai Kempoka said:
			
		

> So...what is up with the universe? :boing2:
> I haven't read these books, yet, and as a former communication psychologist, find the phrase "Psychology of Confrontation Theory" itself quite interesting, if not poorly formed in description. I, too, have been checking in on this thread for elaborations on what exactly the phrase means, both as a theoretical construct, as well as an application.



*PSYCHOLOGY OF CONFRONTATION THEORY*  The use of a series of historic, cultural, environmental, emotional, mental, and physical clues to assist in determining the intent and methodology of probable assaults for the purposes of mapping and predicting probabilities in aggressive human interaction.



> Do you, Doc, have any recommended resources (reading) on Confrontation Theory as referred to here, so that one might be able to follow along in an informed manner? Which, if any, of the above titles would you recommend reading first as an overview or primer?
> 
> Dr. Dave



Yes sir, I do recommend the Gavin De Becker books, all of which are excellent, but particularly The Gift Of Fear. As a personal risk assessment expert, in this book in part through anecdotal re-telling of severe physical assaults, he shows how from a third person perspective, we should easily have predicted much of the pre-physical behavior as high risk and dangerous. He does not deal with the physical self-defense, but prevention through the assessment of the probabilities based on human clues of behavior and pre-physical prevention.

In my opinion most moral people are socialized out of the power to recognize many subtle danger clues, and/or we choose to ignore them and our gut feelings in polite sociological human interaction. Then also for the majority of good people, they are not subjected to the possibility of being seriously assaulted on a day-to-day basis therefore they are precluded the opportunity to consciously exercise instinctual pre-physical self-defense behavior.

Ed Parker and I spent a considerable amount of time examining human behavior and physical clues to possible aggressive behavior, drawing on both our own ghetto experiences, my personal experiences as a career law enforcement officer, and a social psychologist student of his. Mapping behavior was/is fascinating because of the many variables that consistently lead to the same results. It was Ed Parker who suggested Mr. De Beckers work. This is the reason why I have been familiar with his work for quite some time.

Ed Parker used to say how humans are nothing but more intelligent animals whose intelligence and socialization can work against their chances for survival in a hostile environment. This is the source of his listing environment as the number one self-defense consideration. He often said, An animal walking through the jungle whose is attacked by other animals, would never say, I never thought that would happen to me.

Those who have chosen to study martial activity have at least taken the first step to acceptance of the possibility. In our curriculum the specific clues are taught as a part of the pre-assault and subsequent physical attack. Thus students, (who obviously aren't thugs or "street wise") are taught "how" the element thinks, reacts, body language, physical methodologhies, etc. that initiate assaults, and the ability to recognize them in advance and take preparatory measures to either avoid or physically deal with the "challenge" when it is unavoidable. We spend as much time on the "how" of a specific attack, as we do the defense.

Thanks Dr. Dave for the "non-universe" question.


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## Tgace

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13729

Similar thread I started a while ago that didnt get too much play.......


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## Michael Billings

> Yes sir, I do recommend the Gavin De Becker books, all of which are excellent, but particularly The Gift Of Fear. As a personal risk assessment expert, in this book in part through anecdotal re-telling of severe physical assaults, he shows how from a third person perspective, we should easily have predicted much of the pre-physical behavior as high risk and dangerous. He does not deal with the physical self-defense, but prevention through the assessment of the probabilities based on human clues of behavior and pre-physical prevention.


 Just started the book, synchronicity.

 Oss,
 -Michael


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## Kembudo-Kai Kempoka

I'll pick it up. Calibrating non-verbal behavior and paralinguistic modifications to probable shifts in cognitive processes as a predictor of human behavior has always been a thorny one to evidence empirically, but I believe anyone who has ever felt threatened by a change in another persons mood has "intuitively" experienced the validity of these concerns first hand.

I'll probably have some comments and/or questions after the read.

Regards,

Dr. Dave


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## Kenpo Yahoo

I will have to add this to my list of books to read.

I am a huge believer in body language.  The way a person looks (expressions), moves, and carries themself can give you a ton of information regarding possible intent.

For instance a little over a year ago I was fiddling around under the hood of my car while parked at a gas station in a decent part of town.  I was parked on the side of the station away from any phones, pumps, etc.  While I was looking at my car I noticed an individual coming up behind me.  I turned and made eye contact with an early 20's male in grungy clothing with an angry expression staring at me as he continued to move towards me.  The guy was less than 10ft. away and had not given any sort of verbal indication as to his intent (still making eye contact), i.e. "excuse me.."  "can you help me.." etc, so I stepped towards him grabbed him by the front of his shirt and pushed him about 3 feet back into the side wall of the gas station.  As I pinned him to the wall he immediately responded by saying,"hey what's up man?"  After a few exchanges I decided to release him and he walked on down the street.  Whether I over-reacted or not I'll never know, but based on our exchange I would guess that I didn't.  What I do know is that something didn't feel right about his energy at that time (I know that sounds weird, but it's how I felt).  Being a small guy (5'9" 170) I can't afford to get too far behind the "power curve."  Also, I don't really like the idea of being reactionary, not much room for error.  I would rather over-react a little and be wrong instead of not reacting at all and having to deal with those consequences whatever they may be.  I know it's a stupid story but it was the first time I remember fully analyzing someones body language and feeling like I had a full understanding of the situation before anything actually happened.


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## DavidCC

Kembudo-Kai Kempoka said:
			
		

> Calibrating non-verbal behavior and paralinguistic modifications to probable shifts in cognitive processes as a predictor of human behavior has always been a thorny one to evidence empirically, but I believe anyone who has ever felt threatened by a change in another persons mood has "intuitively" experienced the validity of these concerns first hand.


That is one heck of a sentence!  And a very good point, too.


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## Dominic Jones

I'm off on holiday for a few days.  I'll follow up with my thoughts on the first five references; directly (as they say in Cornwall).

Interesting so far...

Cheer Dom :asian:


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## Kembudo-Kai Kempoka

DavidCC said:
			
		

> That is one heck of a sentence!  And a very good point, too.


Thank you, and sorry. Every once in a while, the ritalin kicks and the brain wakes from the fog.  God, I'd be dangerous if I could just keep a train of thought!:wink1:


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## Doc

Dominic Jones said:
			
		

> I'm off on holiday for a few days.  I'll follow up with my thoughts on the first five references; directly (as they say in Cornwall).
> 
> Interesting so far...
> 
> Cheer Dom :asian:


It has now been more than a month. I'm still waiting.


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## kenpo_cory

Doc said:
			
		

> *PSYCHOLOGY OF CONFRONTATION THEORY*  The use of a series of historic, cultural, environmental, emotional, mental, and physical clues to assist in determining the intent and methodology of probable assaults for the purposes of mapping and predicting probabilities in aggressive human interaction.



Could this fall under Variable Expansion and Environmental Awareness? I'm probably way off as usual.   :asian:


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## RCastillo

Michael Billings said:
			
		

> Just started the book, synchronicity.
> 
> Oss,
> -Michael



I've read it myself, twice. How ever, I wouldn't let anyone get close if I could help it, just to many variables. I gotta see!

As for Kenpo Yahoo, he doesn't sound small to me! :asian: 

Moral of the story; never mess with a mechanic! :xtrmshock


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## sumdumguy

kenpo_cory said:
			
		

> Could this fall under Variable Expansion and Environmental Awareness? I'm probably way off as usual.   :asian:



    Well, that's pushing it I think. It's largely if not all based on documented studies that determined specific actions and reactions of individuals in, before, and after a confrontation. I am sure Doc will clear this up better.
 :asian:


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## kenpo_cory

sumdumguy said:
			
		

> Well, that's pushing it I think. It's largely if not all based on documented studies that determined specific actions and reactions of individuals in, before, and after a confrontation. I am sure Doc will clear this up better.
> :asian:



Yeah that's one of the things I like about Doc, he'll definitely let me know if Im wrong.


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## Doc

kenpo_cory said:
			
		

> Could this fall under Variable Expansion and Environmental Awareness? I'm probably way off as usual.   :asian:



"Variable Expansion" is a mis-understood physcal execution concept. 

As I stated previously, it was partially the work on PSYCHOLOGY OF CONFRONTATION THEORY, that made him consider "enviroment" as a significant component in all confrontations. 

Parker in an effort to illustrate the importance of environment told me a story about an adversary of pre-president Abraham Lincoln who was always challenging him to fight. Lincoln always turned him down. Then one day after much persistence and insistence on a fight, Lincoln observed that his challenger was only about 5'11'' in height. As most know, Lincoln was well over 6 feet tall. So finally Lincoln said, "I'll fight you if I can pick the place and you can pick the time." His adversary seeing satisfaction within his reach agreed quickly. So Lincoln said, "I'll meet you at the river outside of town in 6 feet of water. What time do you want me there?" 

"In our curriculum the specific clues are taught as a part of the pre-assault and subsequent physical attack. Thus students, (who aren't thugs or "street wise") are taught "how" the element thinks, reacts, their body language, physical methodologies, etc. that initiate assaults, and them the ability to recognize them in advance and take preparatory measures to either avoid the assault when possible, or physically prepare and deal with the "challenge" when it is unavoidable. We spend as much time on the "how" of a specific attack, as we do the "how" of the defense."


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## mj-hi-yah

Doc said:
			
		

> Parker in an effort to illustrate the importance of environment told me a story about an adversary of pre-president Abraham Lincoln who was always challenging him to fight. Lincoln always turned him down. Then one day after much persistence and insistence on a fight, Lincoln observed that his challenger was only about 5'11'' in height. As most know, Lincoln was well over 6 feet tall. So finally Lincoln said, "I'll fight you if I can pick the place and you can pick the time." His adversary seeing satisfaction within his reach agreed quickly. So Lincoln said, "I'll meet you at the river outside of town in 6 feet of water. What time do you want me there?"


Doc,

 This is a great story!  It seems that most martial arts schools don't take environment into consideration when training.  At our school we train on nice flat mats and in very good lighting. There are no extra background noises or other distractions.  To me there is no reality here.  In a real fight the terrain will most likely be uneven, and there will be lots of obstacles to get around...cars, trees, furniture, maybe other people etc., and lots of background noises and other distractions.  

Do you train students in your school under different environmental conditions?  Do you think this is important, and if so do you have any suggestions for how to bring more environmental reality to training?

MJ :asian:


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## Doc

mj-hi-yah said:
			
		

> Doc,
> 
> This is a great story!  It seems that most martial arts schools don't take environment into consideration when training.  At our school we train on nice flat mats and in very good lighting. There are no extra background noises or other distractions.  To me there is no reality here.  In a real fight the terrain will most likely be uneven, and there will be lots of obstacles to get around...cars, trees, furniture, maybe other people etc., and lots of background noises and other distractions.
> 
> Do you train students in your school under different environmental conditions?  Do you think this is important, and if so do you have any suggestions for how to bring more environmental reality to training?
> 
> MJ :asian:



Absolutely. One of the best distractions you can use is verbal. Once a student has reached a point where a particular physical movement is learned, then the sequence and action must be subjected to an "adrenal dump" to harden the muscle memory and synaptic pathways. "Soft muscle memory" causes the body to "stutter" under stress even though a student may mentally know what to do. So a good place to start is to induce stress while a student is attempting a technique or manuever. Also once we reach a certain level the attack is "real" at some point. If the attack is a right punch, than your student partner is trying to hit you with it and you know and assume responsibility for not being hit. This raises the level of stress to beyond reality. On the street your only concern is survival. In the classrooom you are subject to teacher and peer revue and you don't want to look bad. More stressful than a real confrontation I've found. Those that can't handle the "stress" are dismissed to continue to "re-learn" the material until they perform successfully unphased by external induced stress. After all, if you can't do it in class, how are you going to do on the street? If you want to run with the big dogs, you better be able to bite.

- Go Lakers


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## mj-hi-yah

Doc said:
			
		

> Absolutely. One of the best distractions you can use is verbal.


Hmmm interesting...maybe I should shout, "GO LAKERS" at my students:idunno: it could work...  




> Once a student has reached a point where a particular physical movement is learned, then the sequence and action must be subjected to an "adrenal dump" to harden the muscle memory and synaptic pathways. "Soft muscle memory" causes the body to "stutter" under stress even though a student may mentally know what to do. So a good place to start is to induce stress while a student is attempting a technique or maneuver.



This is very interesting...does this cause an actual (stress induced) physiological change in the muscle, or does this change take place in the neural pathways to the brain, both or neither?    I myself have experienced a feeling that after a test the techniques were somehow cemented in my mind. I didn't understand the correlation between the stress of testing and the hardened muscle memory from the adrenal dump, I figured it was from the preparation, but what you are saying makes sense.  You can prepare for months for a test, but not experience that feeling in quite the same way until after the stress of the test.  





> More stressful than a real confrontation I've found. Those that can't handle the "stress" are dismissed to continue to "re-learn" the material until they perform successfully unphased by external induced stress.



I have one concern here for the tactile learner - someone whose perceptual learning preference is primarily through touch and feelings may not perform well under stress and for instance should not be put up for a test unless they are extremely comfortable with the learned material.  This may even help to explain the population of people who know the material in their mind, but are dismissed to "re-learn" the material due to lack of performance.  Even being asked to demonstrate things in a class can be extra stressful for the tactile learner.  The implications are that a tactile learner should not be made to feel embarrassed in front of peers, as the emotional impact could be quite damaging.  However how do you then develop hardened muscle memory for this type of learner?  Just a thought, but in this case I wonder if it would be beneficial to create the adrenal dump in a smaller group setting prior to a test date - perhaps over time - to harden the muscle memory at least a bit before the actual test.   




> Also once we reach a certain level the attack is "real" at some point. If the attack is a right punch, than your student partner is trying to hit you with it and you know and assume responsibility for not being hit. This raises the level of stress to beyond reality on the street your only concern is survival. In the classroom you are subject to teacher and peer revue and you don't want to look bad.


 I can relate to this.  In our school we have a black belt prepatory class where the intensity is turned up quite a bit.  We try as best as possible to go for reality.  Lots of incidental bruising takes place, but for the most part in this class if you get hit it's mostly your fault.  Unless the move is Back Breaker where you're at their mercy!  It really can be stressful, and you need full concentration for it.  I learn more there and now I understand why that is.  It stresses me out !  :ultracool  Thanks!


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## Doc

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc
Absolutely. One of the best distractions you can use is verbal.


> Hmmm interesting...maybe I should shout, "GO LAKERS" at my students it could work...



Maybe you should shout it at the Lakers and wake them up.

Quote:
Once a student has reached a point where a particular physical movement is learned, then the sequence and action must be subjected to an "adrenal dump" to harden the muscle memory and synaptic pathways. "Soft muscle memory" causes the body to "stutter" under stress even though a student may mentally know what to do. So a good place to start is to induce stress while a student is attempting a technique or maneuver. 



> This is very interesting...does this cause an actual (stress induced) physiological change in the muscle, or does this change take place in the neural pathways to the brain, both or neither?



Both/All



> I myself have experienced a feeling that after a test the techniques were somehow cemented in my mind. I didn't understand the correlation between the stress of testing and the hardened muscle memory from the adrenal dump, I figured it was from the preparation, but what you are saying makes sense. You can prepare for months for a test, but not experience that feeling in quite the same way until after the stress of the test.



Well yes, thats true. The effects of an adrenal dump are quite pronounced and significant in the human survival mechanisms.

Quote:
More stressful than a real confrontation I've found. Those that can't handle the "stress" are dismissed to continue to "re-learn" the material until they perform successfully un-phased by external induced stress. 



> I have one concern here for the tactile learner - someone whose perceptual learning preference is primarily through touch and feelings may not perform well under stress and for instance should not be put up for a test unless they are extremely comfortable with the learned material.



Agreed with the understanding that they may take significantly longer to physically assimilate the information to an acceptable level.



> This may even help to explain the population of people who know the material in their mind, but are dismissed to "re-learn" the material due to lack of performance. Even being asked to demonstrate things in a class can be extra stressful for the tactile learner. The implications are that a tactile learner should not be made to feel embarrassed in front of peers, as the emotional impact could be quite damaging.



I think the emotional impact of being seriously physically injured is a greater concern. Than being embarrassed doesnt look quite so bad.



> However how do you then develop hardened muscle memory for this type of learner?



As a professional teacher in many areas I, at least in Sublevel Four kenpo, have the luxury of not accepting those who dont pack the gear. Not teaching the commercial kenpo allows me to do something the public school systems doesnt. I set a high standard and students are forced to meet it or try something commercial.



> Just a thought, but in this case I wonder if it would be beneficial to create the adrenal dump in a smaller group setting prior to a test date - perhaps over time - to harden the muscle memory at least a bit before the actual test.



I never said anything about only stressing students during a test. It is an ongoing process that occurs at some level in every class. During the test the stress level is taken to a higher level psychologically, emotionally, and physically.

Quote:
Also once we reach a certain level the attack is "real" at some point. If the attack is a right punch, than your student partner is trying to hit you with it and you know and assume responsibility for not being hit. This raises the level of stress to beyond reality on the street your only concern is survival. In the classroom you are subject to teacher and peer revue and you don't want to look bad.



> I can relate to this. In our school we have a black belt prepatory class where the intensity is turned up quite a bit. We try as best as possible to go for reality. Lots of incidental bruising takes place, but for the most part in this class if you get hit it's mostly your fault. Unless the move is Back Breaker where you're at their mercy! It really can be stressful, and you need full concentration for it. I learn more there and now I understand why that is. It stresses me out !  Thanks!



When we have a test, everyone participates in the test whether they are testing or not. It is part of the process.


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## Doc

> "Variable Expansion" is a misunderstood physical execution concept.
> 
> As I stated previously, it was partially the work on PSYCHOLOGY OF CONFRONTATION THEORY, that made him consider "environment" as a significant component in all confrontations.
> 
> Parker in an effort to illustrate the importance of environment told me a story about an adversary of pre-president Abraham Lincoln who was always challenging him to fight. Lincoln always turned him down. Then one day after much persistence and insistence on a fight, Lincoln observed that his challenger was only about 5'11'' in height. As most know, Lincoln was well over 6 feet tall. So finally Lincoln said, "I'll fight you if I can pick the place and you can pick the time." His adversary seeing satisfaction within his reach agreed quickly. So Lincoln said, "I'll meet you at the river outside of town in 6 feet of water. What time do you want me there?"
> 
> "In our curriculum the specific clues are taught as a part of the pre-assault and subsequent physical attack. Thus students, (who aren't thugs or "street wise") are taught "how" the element thinks, reacts, their body language, physical methodologies, etc. that initiate assaults, and them the ability to recognize them in advance and take preparatory measures to either avoid the assault when possible, or physically prepare and deal with the "challenge" when it is unavoidable. We spend as much time on the "how" of a specific attack, as we do the "how" of the defense."



Now that the Lakers have ruined my workday let me continue - 
Environment is the number one self-defense consideration for a variety of reasons and is a resident of distance one - out of reach of the Four defined distances of combat. However all of the real information is contained in the subcategories of the distances, not in the superficial commercial definitions that basically teach nothing.

The subcategory of distance one is the aforementioned Psychology of Confrontation Theory. Confrontation and possible assaults usually on some level start outside of ones reach and are discernable by the perceptible. It may be a simple glance, or a stare. Perhaps the opposite would be a clue, like a quick diverting of the eyes to avoid eye contact as an example. Maybe a hand in the pocket, or hands you cant see. Profuse sweating or nervous body language are all clues that something is not right and you should move into condition red.

Psychology of Confrontation Theory is prominent at all distances and although it begins at distance one, it presents itself at the physical distances as well. There are many examples that broaden the scope of the understanding of an assault that allows a mapping of the probabilities. The more and the sooner you perceive, the greater your options, and the faster you are by virtue of the acceleration of perpetual speed.

When the attack actually is imminent or begins, how the attacker proceeds itself will yield many useful clues to the most successful methodology of retaliation. It is the beginning of what I call Surviving The Initial Assault.


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## Shiatsu

Stress and different types of training is essential.  I believe Mr. Parker once said " no matter how good of a swimmer you are, if you you swim in a pool of sharks you are bound to get bit".

 lot of schools teach the theory that you will be so good that you will never get hit in a confrontation, or the fact of the matter being that every techniquee will work all the time.

I am not pointing fingers I am just stating a point. :asian:


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## mj-hi-yah

> Maybe you should shout it at the Lakers and wake them up.


 Wait a minute.  Isn't that your job loyal fan? :wink1: 




> As a professional teacher in many areas I, at least in Sublevel Four kenpo, have the luxury of not accepting those who dont pack the gear. Not teaching the commercial kenpo allows me to do something the public school systems doesnt. I set a high standard and students are forced to meet it or try something commercial.


  I've found what you say to be true and this speaks for the usually higher levels of achievement of students in private schools. I spent a couple of years in a private school too...there's a big difference, you don't have to accept all students.  It was a pleasure to teach there.  Also the ones who have special learning needs or considerations really struggled there, because the help they needed was simply not available.   Private schools have the luxury of accepting only the cream of the crop in terms of parental support, behavior and personal motivation and achievement.  
However there have been in my opinion reliable studies that showed that even children living in most unfortunate circumstances with no parental support etc., with the lowest projections for success (based on test scores, assessed learning needs etc.,) can achieve the very highest standards as a whole when the expectations are raised for them and consistently maintained.  So I agree it's so much easier to teach the ones who are intrinsically motivated and "pack the gear", but within a specific framework very high standards can be achieved with all types of students.  Raise the bar high, but in the right way and they will jump it.  I realize it's much more work though.




> I think the emotional impact of being seriously physically injured is a greater concern. Than being embarrassed doesnt look quite so bad.


  Hmmm yes for certain you're right about that.  I totally agree that this is/should be the ultimate goal.  It's your job to do all you can to help them learn it for purposes of self defense.  If a person can't actualize it than what good is it?  However in the circumstances under which I teach presently, the student does not necessarily always come with the right gear packed, and if this results in them stopping their training than what have I really given them?  Should I not be responsible for teaching them what they need to pack as individuals?  I want to help them develop their muscle memory but also have them come back.  I think this one may require more thought on my part...





> I never said anything about only stressing students during a test. It is an ongoing process that occurs at some level in every class. During the test the stress level is taken to a higher level psychologically, emotionally, and physically.


  Yes, sorry i didn't mean to imply that - I know, that's why I'll be shouting some Lakers trash talk at them in class  . 



> When we have a test, everyone participates in the test whether they are testing or not. It is part of the process.


   That's a very good requirement especially in terms of this discussion.

Thanks Doc!:asian:   

Go Yankees!


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## mj-hi-yah

Doc said:
			
		

> Environment is the number one self-defense consideration for a variety of reasons and is a resident of distance one - out of reach of the Four defined distances of combat. The subcategory of distance one is the aforementioned Psychology of Confrontation Theory. Confrontation and possible assaults usually on some level start outside of ones reach and are discernable by the perceptible. It may be a simple glance, or a stare. Perhaps the opposite would be a clue, like a quick diverting of the eyes to avoid eye contact as an example. Maybe a hand in the pocket, or hands you cant see. Profuse sweating or nervous body language are all clues that something is not right and you should move into condition red.


When you refer to environment I see here you are referring to not just the physical environment in which you are standing.  This part about body language seems so important, yet aside from women's self defense classes in my school we rarely discuss it, and even then not in such detail.  My friend was violently assaulted when getting onto an elevator that she'd traveled thousands of times in her life.  The man who assaulted her was stealing computer equipment and all the signs you described had to have been there, but my friend admits to being absorbed in thought and not looking into the elevator before attempting to enter it.  He came running out toward her and punched her in the nose sending her across the hall and her head went into the wall - blood was everywhere, and she had all kinds of bumps and bruises from the impact.  The police called it a random act of violence.  We get too complacent in the comfort zone of our daily environment, most people don't even know what to look for.  This is very valuable...thanks!

MJ:asian:


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## howardr

mj-hi-yah said:
			
		

> When you refer to environment I see here you are referring to not just the physical environment in which you are standing.  This part about body language seems so important, yet aside from women's self defense classes in my school we rarely discuss it, and even then not in such detail...This is very valuable...thanks!
> 
> MJ:asian:



Dr. Chapel isn't doing himself justice. Here's why I say that (and Dr. Chapel, please correct me if I'm wrong). As good as the information is that he is providing on this subject in this thread, he's only offering an "x-ray" or outline of Psychology of Confrontration theory and practice - the meat, the details, how it actually works and is applied is something that is taught hands-on in class.

I'd also like to add that The Psychology of Confrontation is not just a general injunction or advice like we so often hear. "Be aware of your evironment," which while true and valid doesn't give you the specifics to know *how* to be aware and what exactly to be aware *of*. I think this is the sort of issue that a lot of people have with how self-defense is typically taught (whether Kenpo-based or otherwise). In my opinion, what Dr. Chapel is bringing with the Psychology of Confrontation theory is a combination not just of years of practical law enforcement "street" experience, but a tremendous amount of thought and hard work.

Now, another reason why I say that he isn't doing himself justice is because he's only communicating part of the story, the part that is readily expressible in this medium. In fact, the following (and more) is what is actually going on in the material that he teaches:

- Psychology of Confrontation is a component not just discussed and taught separately from the rest of the art (as "environmental awareness," if it is taught at all, usually is). What Dr. Chapel has done so ingeniously, is to *wholly integrate the Psychology of Confrontation into the Kenpo techniques themselves*. When you have it explained in person and see it done (and, of course, do it yourself) it just makes sense, it all fits together. Actually, it seems so obvious now I can't imagine doing it any other way. Of course, that's easy to say now, but I can tell you that at several "prominent" Kenpo schools, this is NOT taught at all, nor have I ever heard it taught this way by anyone else in Kenpo anywhere.

The above is evidenced by the all too familiar, "All those years in training and I just froze!" or "You could never do a Kenpo technique on someone in a real fight." Etc. Well, of course people are freezing, how could they do anything approaching a technique or technique-like response using Kenpo principles, when they are not hard-wiring the techniques and basics into their nervous system by training with adrenal stress, with training for and understanding realistic assaults and what they look like. In other words, if all you train in class are some half-baked basics and techniques without understanding and working with how the situations arise that lead to the various assaults, then when such real situations occur you won't know what you are seeing and by the time you realize it, it will be too late and you will be frozen, injured, or worse.

Another way to look at this is that all the other Kenpo I've seen is taught like a person who learns to play football by having his dad throw the football to him and running up and down the field, and then enters a college game only to be immediately creamed. What he needed to do is join a team with other players, and a good tough, intelligent coach, run drills, practice basics while the coach is yelling and screaming at him and then run scrimmages, etc., all while being verbally "abused." Then when he enters a real game, he won't panic or freeze, but he'll be able to use his skills and knowledge and have a fighting chance.

- The verbal and physical stress is added in layers, as the students can handle it and sometimes is more than the student can handle (in order to progress we must go past what we thought were our limits). It ranges from mere correction under pressure to some fairly extreme stress. I haven't seen nor heard of this being done at other schools (at least the way it's done by Dr. Chapel).

Howard


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## mj-hi-yah

howardr said:
			
		

> Dr. Chapel isn't doing himself justice. Here's why I say that (and Dr. Chapel, please correct me if I'm wrong). As good as the information is that he is providing on this subject in this thread, he's only offering an "x-ray" or outline of Psychology of Confrontration theory and practice - the meat, the details, how it actually works and is applied is something that is taught hands-on in class.


  I don't disagree with you on this in the least.  Don't think I'm not at least a little jealous that I can't be in LA  (aside from there being no Knicks there  ) I would love to experience this.  It is reality based, practical, thoughtful learning.  I've only seen one school where this type of learning takes place and it's not a kenpo school.  The training takes place in uneven terrain with blaring lights and fog horns and gauntlets.  People rush out at you in body armor and they train in elevators, actual buses and outdoors -  talk about dumping some adrenaline...However this school is also too far away to be practical to train at.  

Howard I totally appreciate that this is merely the very tip of the iceberg.  In the name of practicality you are lucky...the rest of us can only do our best and learn what we can, but believe me I appreciate the complexity of it all. My son is a NY State champion swimmer.  I watch him as he learns to perfect his stroke all the time.  By watching him I know I will never be able to swim the butterfly so precisely, but I like to swim and definitely get something out of just being in the pool.

Hey I know, how about you guys come open a satellite school in NY?  
Seriously!

Respectfully,
MJ:asian:


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## kenpo_cory

Doc said:
			
		

> "Variable Expansion" is a mis-understood physcal execution concept.
> 
> As I stated previously, it was partially the work on PSYCHOLOGY OF CONFRONTATION THEORY, that made him consider "enviroment" as a significant component in all confrontations.
> 
> Parker in an effort to illustrate the importance of environment told me a story about an adversary of pre-president Abraham Lincoln who was always challenging him to fight. Lincoln always turned him down. Then one day after much persistence and insistence on a fight, Lincoln observed that his challenger was only about 5'11'' in height. As most know, Lincoln was well over 6 feet tall. So finally Lincoln said, "I'll fight you if I can pick the place and you can pick the time." His adversary seeing satisfaction within his reach agreed quickly. So Lincoln said, "I'll meet you at the river outside of town in 6 feet of water. What time do you want me there?"
> 
> "In our curriculum the specific clues are taught as a part of the pre-assault and subsequent physical attack. Thus students, (who aren't thugs or "street wise") are taught "how" the element thinks, reacts, their body language, physical methodologies, etc. that initiate assaults, and them the ability to recognize them in advance and take preparatory measures to either avoid the assault when possible, or physically prepare and deal with the "challenge" when it is unavoidable. We spend as much time on the "how" of a specific attack, as we do the "how" of the defense."



I just got back to my computer today, thank you for the reply Mr. Chapel.  :asian:


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## kenpo_cory

Doc said:
			
		

> Now that the Lakers have ruined my workday let me continue -
> Environment is the number one self-defense consideration for a variety of reasons and is a resident of distance one - out of reach of the Four defined distances of combat. However all of the real information is contained in the subcategories of the distances, not in the superficial commercial definitions that basically teach nothing.
> 
> The subcategory of distance one is the aforementioned Psychology of Confrontation Theory. Confrontation and possible assaults usually on some level start outside of ones reach and are discernable by the perceptible. It may be a simple glance, or a stare. Perhaps the opposite would be a clue, like a quick diverting of the eyes to avoid eye contact as an example. Maybe a hand in the pocket, or hands you cant see. Profuse sweating or nervous body language are all clues that something is not right and you should move into condition red.
> 
> Psychology of Confrontation Theory is prominent at all distances and although it begins at distance one, it presents itself at the physical distances as well. There are many examples that broaden the scope of the understanding of an assault that allows a mapping of the probabilities. The more and the sooner you perceive, the greater your options, and the faster you are by virtue of the acceleration of perpetual speed.
> 
> When the attack actually is imminent or begins, how the attacker proceeds itself will yield many useful clues to the most successful methodology of retaliation. It is the beginning of what I call Surviving The Initial Assault.



Definitely makes since, thanks again Mr. Chapel. Can you recommend some reading material that would benefit me in my research on how adrenaline affects the brain and body?


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## GaryM

kenpo_cory said:
			
		

> Definitely makes since, thanks again Mr. Chapel. Can you recommend some reading material that would benefit me in my research on how adrenaline affects the brain and body?


 Geof Thompson's "dead or alive, the choice is yours" has very good desciptions of the effects of  adrenalin dump. G.


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## kenpo_cory

GaryM said:
			
		

> Geof Thompson's "dead or alive, the choice is yours" has very good desciptions of the effects of  adrenalin dump. G.



Thank you   :asian:


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## Dominic Jones

Hi All 


> by DOC 04-28-2004
> 
> I'd be interested in your understanding and views of this component so that I might expand my perspective based on what you have gleaned from your reading.




I`ve finally got round to posting my thoughts on the 5 books I recommened.  I`ll start in reverse order:  

The Gift of Fear by Gavin be Becker - A review by Dominic Jones

This book (ISBN: 0440226198) is primarily aimed at women wanting to avoid being the target of violent crime; but I feel its lessons are applicable to all.  Its about looking at the phenomenon of intuition/gut feeling as a cognitive process.  As De Becker says when talking about intuition I refuse to call it a mystery its a puzzle its about recognizing the pre-incident indicators (PIDs) that precede events.  

Intuition of danger is always in response to something and has your best interest at heart.  Messages of intuition involve: nagging feelings, persistent thoughts, humour, wonder, anxiety, curiosity, hunches, gut feelings, doubts, hesitation, suspicion, apprehension, fear.  The bottom line is trust your instincts, thats what they are there for.

*Intuition*
The book starts with the description of a lady who is raped in her own home and then escapes her attacker because she had a gut feeling that he would kill her next.  The author, after interviewing the victim, was able to identify the PIDs for the initial attack that she was aware of but didnt act upon.  It also identified the PIDs that she identified and DID act upon thus probably saving her life.

*Manipulation*
Be aware that capable criminals use techniques to manipulate their victims.  These techniques can include the following.  Identifying one in isolation is not necessary a bad sign but seeing a few of them should get the alarm bells a ringing:

FORCED TEAMING 
Creating shared experiences by using we sentences.  Offering unsolicited help and then capitalising on our shared experiences.

CHARM and NICENESS
Charm is an ability, he charmed her to do XXX.  Niceness is not always equal to goodness.  Look for the motivation of their niceness.  It may be harmlessor not.

TOO MANY DETAILS
People who want to deceive you often give too many details  as if trying to prop up their story.


TYPECASTING 
Tries to get you to do something you wouldnt normally do.  Works well against peoples reaction be being labelled X.  For example, you probably too XXXX to do YYYY. 

LOANSHARKING
They want you to do something in return for what they did for you.  But if you didnt ask for the favour then you dont have to return it.

THE UNSOLICIATED PROMISE
Used by people to convince you that your doubts are unfounded Dont worry.  
I promise I wont XXXX

DISCOUNTING THE WORD NO
When people disregard the word No they are trying to control you; or are already in control and dont want to relinquish it.

De Becker has two useful bits of advice No - is a complete sentence and if you are in need of help its better to ask someone than accept unsolicited help.

Its good to remember that as the author says you are not comparing the man who approaches you to the vast majority of men who have no ulterior motive.  Instead you are comparing him to other men who make unsolicited approaches and dont listen when you say no.  Remember, especially with unsolicited approaches; you dont have to be nice to everyone.  Verbally enforcing your boundaries is a good way of staying safe.

When trying to understand your intuition the multiple choice prediction game is a good tactic.  Choose 3 or 4 reasons for a situation and the correct answer will usually become obvious.

*Harassment*
As part of his job De Becker has been asked to help identify people who have been anonymously harassed.  One of his best techniques is to talk to the victim and listen for extra unnecessary details.  He refers to them as non-required elements in a story: in these details the identity of the harasser is often found.  Its like the sub-conscious brain trying to get the attention of the conscious brain.

Be Becker had some good advice about harassers:
Never respond to them.  

If they call you all the time, buy an answer phone for that number and get another phone line for your other calls.  Approaching the stalker and complaining, threatening them is not usually a good idea it just feeds their obsession and has had fatal results.

*Dominics View*
When I read the book The Gift of Fear I noticed that I have used some of the above manipulating techniques and have allowed other people to use them on me.  Id like to think that Im one of the vast majority of people with no ulterior motive.  

I agree that looking out for PIDs could save my life, being aware is the key.  This book contained some great advice on staying safe and successfully made the case for trusting your instincts.  It has some statements that I dont agree with for example at core, men are afraid women will laugh at them, while at core women are afraid me will kill them.

So in conclusion; trust your instincts - its your subconscious mind trying to get your attention.  Fear is a safety feature that is hard wired into you; ignore it at your peril.  Criminals and manipulators like to use your wish not to make a scene or appear rude, against you.  Being aware of their tactics is half the battle.

I recommend reading this book, as it says on the front cover this book may save your life.  Melodramaticyes; trueyes.

Cheers Dominic :asian:


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## GAB

Hi all:

Observing this post and wanting to get it into the light again, I thought I would post a question or two.

Hi Doc! 
In your encounters, also being LEO Have you noticed that some one with the LEO training has a better ability to handle the various stress situations? Do you think they are able to cope better or not, "time in grade," is it helpful?
How about people who are street wise? Or how about the military minded who are seeking a continuation of their training. Not that they are better at reading the situation, or are they? 

How much time in the arts, does a student need, before you will part with your information to them?

Last but not least. Have you found it to be just the opposite? Are these above people so biased that they feel what you have to offer, is more of a form of clouding, then the reality of actual experience.   

Regards, Gary


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