# another jujitsu question



## drummingman (Oct 20, 2006)

i know am asking all kinds of questions and i hope thats ok.
can someone tell me the difference between daito-ryu jujitsu and daito-ryu aikijujitsu and daito-ryu aikijujutsu?
in all of the research that i have been doing i seem to keep coming back to these styles that i am most interested in but i don't really know the main differences in them.
also,does anyone know of any good schools that teach any of these styles in virginia?
thanks so much for your help.


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## Kempojujutsu (Oct 20, 2006)

They are the same art. Not sure of any schools in Virginia. Best bet is to go and visit them, maybe even try a class.


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## howard (Oct 20, 2006)

Kempojujutsu is right.  Daito-ryu techniques can be done as either jujutsu or aikijujutsu.  The aikijujutsu versions use aiki at the moment of contact with the attacker.  Some DR organizations teach both methods.  Some focus only on aikijujutsu.

Aikijujutsu and Aikijujitsu are just two different English spellings for the same Japanese term.

Where in Virginia are you?  I understand that there is a legitimate mainline DR group (affiliated with Katsuyuki Kondo) near Richmond.  If that's in your neck of the woods, I can probably get you more info... please feel free to PM me if you like.

btw, I'm a Norfolk native, transplanted to New Jersey many years ago.  VA is beautiful.


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## drummingman (Oct 20, 2006)

thanks for the info guys.
what does it mean to use aiki at the moment of contact? how would a technique work differently with the aiki and without it? do most instructors know the difference?
im near warrenton but i work in fredericksburg which is about an hour from richmond.but richmond is about an hour 45 minuets from where i live.


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## howard (Oct 21, 2006)

drummingman said:


> thanks for the info guys.
> what does it mean to use aiki at the moment of contact? how would a technique work differently with the aiki and without it? do most instructors know the difference?


Hi,

To use aiki at the moment of contact means that in aikijujutsu, it is imperative to unbalance your attacker at the very moment that he touches you.  There are several ways to do this.  Kondo sensei teaches seven primary ways of applying aiki.  In his organization, you will hear the phrase "touch equals unbalance" frequently.  This means that you must unbalance your attacker at the very moment of contact, and maintain that unbalance until you complete the technique.

Once you have taken the attacker's balance, you never give it back to him.  You maintain the aiki (imbalance) throughout the technique.

Techniques that don't rely primarily on aiki (basic Jujutsu) use leverage, physical force and other means to dominate the attacker and apply the technique.  It's a bit hard to describe... the best thing would be to find a school that teaches a legitimate form of aikijujutsu and ask an instructor to demonstrate a given technique in both its jujutsu version and its aikijujutsu version.

Do most instructors know the difference?  I believe that they should, especially if they claim to teach aikijujutsu.  If you find an instructor who does not, I'd be suspicious of his ability to teach you aikijujutsu.

btw, please don't take my comments as criticism of basic Jujutsu.  Jujutsu is a very effective art, it's probably the basis of most forms of my primary art (Hapkido), and it's easier to learn for most people than aikijujutsu.

Yeah, Fredericksburg is too far from the Richmond area to consider for regular training... sorry.

Good luck to you in aikijujutsu if you take that path.  Also, you might consider posting questions about the school you're considering over on e-budo.  There is a fair number of people over there who are pretty experienced in aikijujutsu and know or know of many of the people across the US who teach legitimate aikijujutsu.


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## drummingman (Oct 21, 2006)

thanks for the advice all.
would budoshin jujitsu be considered aiki or traditional jujitsu?
im going to check out a class on budoshin jujitsu tomorrow god willing.


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## KOROHO (Nov 2, 2006)

drummingman said:


> i know am asking all kinds of questions and i hope thats ok.
> can someone tell me the difference between daito-ryu jujitsu and daito-ryu aikijujitsu and daito-ryu aikijujutsu?
> in all of the research that i have been doing i seem to keep coming back to these styles that i am most interested in but i don't really know the main differences in them.
> also,does anyone know of any good schools that teach any of these styles in virginia?
> thanks so much for your help.



The correct name of the art is Daito Ryu Aikijujutsu
The first set of 118 Techniques are Jujutsu
The second set is Aikijujutsu
Then finally Aiki No Jutsu

This is what likely causes some confusion.  It would be possible for one to train in Daito Ryu and never learn Aikijujutsu, if they left the school after only learning Jujutsu. 

There is atleast 1 school in VA and there may be more.  I think there is a study group in D.C.


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## KOROHO (Nov 2, 2006)

Budoshin Jujutsu would be a fine style for you.  But it is not Aikijujutsu at all.

It is largely based on modern Judo with some techniques from Aikido, although as far as I know the Aiki principles are not taught.  There was also some borrowing from Karate to add strikes.

I own Prof Kirby's Patnther Video series and thought it was rather well done.
He travels to VA fairly often for seminars so you will be able to train with him directly.  I think his senior in the area is Mr. Salandar who will likely be able to train you quite well in that style.


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## KOROHO (Nov 2, 2006)

drummingman said:


> what does it mean to use aiki at the moment of contact? how would a technique work differently with the aiki and without it? do most instructors know the difference?



Sadly, most I have encountered do not know the difference.  The only real way to understand the difference is to feel the technqiue of someone skilled in Aiki.

If you were to watch demonstrations of both Aikijujutsu and Jujutsu technqiue, you very likely would not see a difference - especially if both showed the same technique.  But in being on the receiving side, there would be a definite difference in the way you feel yourself going off balance and your feet leaving the ground.

I have very little exposure to Daito Ryu, my Aiki training is from Aikido.  But Aiki is essentially a harmonizing or blending with the energy of the attacker, which needs to happen as soon as you make contact.  As opposed to Jujutsu or "yielding technqiue" where you yield to the incoming force of an attack and then execute your technique.


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## KOROHO (Nov 2, 2006)

http://www.virginiakempo.com/
Try this link to find a good school in VA.  If they are too far away I'm sure Rob Rivers Sensei will be able to point you to a good school somewhere else in the state.

You seem to be looking at all sorts of arts, which is good to an extent.  You can spend years looking for the perfect style and never find it.  What you'll end up doing is reading alot and have some knowldge of what differetn styles are but will not have training.

My advice would be to find the best martial arts teacher in your area and train with him.  If the best teacher is teaching Jujutsu, then learn Jujutsu.  If the best teacher is teaching Karate, then you learn Karate.

Of course you are looking for something self defense oriented as opposed to sport oriented.  You seem to be more interested in trhwoing and grappling arts than striking.  So stick to Jujutsu, Aikijujutsu or find a Karate school and ask if they teach the grappling aspects of the art.


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## howard (Nov 2, 2006)

KOROHO said:


> The first set of 118 Techniques are Jujutsu
> The second set is Aikijujutsu
> Then finally Aiki No Jutsu


This may vary across Daito-ryu organizations.

In Kondo's "mainline" organization, the first scroll of 118 techniques (the Hiden Mokuroku) are all taught as Aikijujutsu.  They can be done as basic Jujutsu techniques, but they are taught in their Aikijujutsu versions.  Check out his Aikido Journal dvd's of the first of the five sets of techniques (the Ikkajo set) to see this.  There is great emphasis on aiki in these dvd's, from the first technique to the last.

The Aiki No Jutsu scroll is simply another scroll of techniques (53 techniques).

I've heard that the Daitokai teaches the Jujutsu versions of the techniques, but I can't confirm that.


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## KOROHO (Nov 2, 2006)

I do intend to get some of Kondo Sensei's DVDs.
I am looking into training in Daito Ryu with Bokuyokan.  Are you familiar with them?

Thanks.


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## howard (Nov 3, 2006)

KOROHO said:


> I am looking into training in Daito Ryu with Bokuyokan.  Are you familiar with them?


Only very slightly... a friend who trains with me in Hapkido went to a handful of classes at their East Rutherford, NJ dojo.  If I remember correctly what he told me, it's a very small group that trains in the home of the instructor, whose name I don't recall.

Sorry I can't tell you more.


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## robertmrivers (Nov 3, 2006)

Drummingman

The words usually imply the same thing...however, as one said, there is a difference in principle between Jujutsu, Aikijujutsu and Aiki no Jutsu in Daito Ryu.

I lead a Bokuyokan Study Group in Virginia...was forwarded a message that you stopped by. You must have missed the Jujutsu class. Feel free to come by any time. 

Gassho

Rob Rivers
Shin Dojo
www.virginiakempo.com


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## still learning (Nov 4, 2006)

Hello, When the founder of Aikido die...many of his senior people did not want his son to be the next leader and other for other reasons too...left Aikido to form there own organzitions,

That is why there is so many other Aikido schools with different names..each Sensi went on to teach there version of Aikido, each with there own style and names.

Just like "Ed parker Kenpo"  same thing happen! 

Today any person who learns a particular art..can leave, form his own and call it "anything they want too"  

What's the difference...just there version of there idea's of what they had learn.

Take two people in the same school and under the same Instructor...at the end of 5 years..each one will teach differently if they left the school...Aloha


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## KOROHO (Nov 4, 2006)

That certainly clears up the Jujutsu questions asked.  Thank you.


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