# Sensei YouTube?



## Urban Trekker (May 4, 2021)

So here's the story: I really want to learn judo grappling techniques, but the nearest open dojo is almost an hour away from me.  I've been wanting to do this for a long time, but there's no way to fit the commute time into my schedule.

So what have I been doing instead?  I looked up the promotion requirements for USA Judo and USJA, then I looked up the grappling techniques on YouTube - and then I practice them on my 15 year old daughter.  She doesn't like it, but she's a good sport.  I offer her the chance to get "revenge" by letting her do the techniques on me, but she refuses.

I don't care about being a "credentialed" judoka.  I just want to learn how to _do _the techniques.

What are your thoughts?


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## Dirty Dog (May 4, 2021)

It will take you ten times as long to learn anything, and there is a good chance you'll still be doing it wrong.


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## Urban Trekker (May 4, 2021)

Dirty Dog said:


> It will take you ten times as long to learn anything, and there is a good chance you'll still be doing it wrong.


No doubt.  I'm positive that there would be nuances that instructors would be looking for on a test that I'd be missing.

But my focus is getting the person from Point A (standing) to Point B (on the ground).

Judo just isn't as readily an available martial art as others, and I know of no plans for a judo dojo to open up in my town any time soon.  YouTube is all I have for now.


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## dvcochran (May 4, 2021)

Urban Trekker said:


> So here's the story: I really want to learn judo grappling techniques, but the nearest open dojo is almost an hour away from me.  I've been wanting to do this for a long time, but there's no way to fit the commute time into my schedule.
> 
> So what have I been doing instead?  I looked up the promotion requirements for USA Judo and USJA, then I looked up the grappling techniques on YouTube - and then I practice them on my 15 year old daughter.  She doesn't like it, but she's a good sport.  I offer her the chance to get "revenge" by letting her do the techniques on me, but she refuses.
> 
> ...


Sometimes the options are very limited in a situation like yours. My first question is what are the available schools near you? Possibly one of them could offer the same skills you are looking for. Especially since you are not worried about credentials or being qualified by the tournament rules. A lot of the skills translate. Possibly an Aikido, Krav, or Kenpo school?


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## jobo (May 4, 2021)

Urban Trekker said:


> No doubt.  I'm positive that there would be nuances that instructors would be looking for on a test that I'd be missing.
> 
> But my focus is getting the person from Point A (standing) to Point B (on the ground).
> 
> Judo just isn't as readily an available martial art as others, and I know of no plans for a judo dojo to open up in my town any time soon.  YouTube is all I have for now.


well you have to run with what youve got, there may come a point sooner rather than later where you need to substitute a resistance fully grown man for a compliant  female child

perhaps leaflet the area to see if there are any volunteers


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## Gerry Seymour (May 4, 2021)

Do you have a solid background in similar techniques? If so, this might work. If you have no grapppiing background, see if you can find anything with solid fundamentals (easiest to determine when they have some resistive training) to build a foundation.


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## Flying Crane (May 4, 2021)

As Ive said in countless similar discussions:   Video as the primary or only method of instruction is not a good idea.  Video can be an excellent supplemental tool for those who are already receiving good instruction.

so I don’t recommend it.


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## Urban Trekker (May 4, 2021)

jobo said:


> well you have to run with what youve got, there may come a point sooner rather than later where you need to substitute a resistance fully grown man for a compliant  female child
> 
> perhaps leaflet the area to see if there are any volunteers



My daughter is 5'9" and weighs 190 lb, so I've got a decent weight/size to work with for now.


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## jobo (May 4, 2021)

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Urban Trekker said:


> My daughter is 5'9" and weighs 190 lb, so I've got a decent weight/size to work with for now.


;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

190 lbs , she  would be better off going for a jog


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## wab25 (May 4, 2021)

Urban Trekker said:


> But my focus is getting the person from Point A (standing) to Point B (on the ground).


If you are trying to learn Judo throws from youtube... with no real instruction... I would be worried about uke. Does your uke (the person you are throwing) know how to take the falls correctly? What surface are you using to throw her on to? Do you know when she is or is not taking the fall right? I would be worried more about injuring your uke than I would be about missing a few nuances. (of coarse a lot of the nuances you are missing are the ones that keep uke from getting broke)


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## Yokozuna514 (May 4, 2021)

Urban Trekker said:


> So here's the story: I really want to learn judo grappling techniques, but the nearest open dojo is almost an hour away from me.  I've been wanting to do this for a long time, but there's no way to fit the commute time into my schedule.
> 
> So what have I been doing instead?  I looked up the promotion requirements for USA Judo and USJA, then I looked up the grappling techniques on YouTube - and then I practice them on my 15 year old daughter.  She doesn't like it, but she's a good sport.  I offer her the chance to get "revenge" by letting her do the techniques on me, but she refuses.
> 
> ...


Learning Judo from YouTube is not ideal.  YouTube may give you an explanation of the techniques but it will not have the benefit of a proper pedagogy from going to a good school and learning the progression of techniques.   You also need to prepare the body for Judo.  Learning how to fall properly and safely is something that needs to be practiced at each opportunity.  Guided practice is the best as there is someone there to give you feedback.    Your body also needs to be accustomed to throwing people and being thrown.   There is also learning the concept of 'kazushi' which is central to the idea of Judo.

It is not all about having credentials.   It is about learning an art without stumbling around through trial and error.   Hopefully you will also avoid needless injury that will stop you from pursuing the art of your choice.


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## MadMartigan (May 4, 2021)

I agree. Learning proper falling technique is critical to both of your safety.
That said, let's assume you have that side of things covered. While you can't commute to this school an hour away all the time; can you do it sometimes?
Perhaps a middle ground of booking some private lessons with the sensei there and periodic group classes can split some of the difference. Then YouTube can be used as it's more intended for, a supplemental tool.


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## Steve (May 4, 2021)

Urban Trekker said:


> So here's the story: I really want to learn judo grappling techniques, but the nearest open dojo is almost an hour away from me.  I've been wanting to do this for a long time, but there's no way to fit the commute time into my schedule.
> 
> So what have I been doing instead?  I looked up the promotion requirements for USA Judo and USJA, then I looked up the grappling techniques on YouTube - and then I practice them on my 15 year old daughter.  She doesn't like it, but she's a good sport.  I offer her the chance to get "revenge" by letting her do the techniques on me, but she refuses.
> 
> ...


Honestly, I'm more worried about your relationship with your daughter.


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## Steve (May 4, 2021)

Flying Crane said:


> As Ive said in countless similar discussions:   Video as the primary or only method of instruction is not a good idea.  Video can be an excellent supplemental tool for those who are already receiving good instruction.
> 
> so I don’t recommend it.


Depends on the goals for the training.  Doesn't it?


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## isshinryuronin (May 4, 2021)

Yokozuna514 said:


> There is also learning the concept of 'kazushi' which is central to the idea of Judo.


And karate as well.  Learning to break the opponent's balance structure is key to making most techniques actually work, whether grappling or striking.  When one's moves do not seem to be having the intended effect, kazushi is not being employed.  

Videos and kata do not teach this well as getting a feel for the opponent's body and entering the setup are sometimes subtle.  In the case of karate kata, very difficult as kazushi is not often illustrated in the forms (and so has given the impression that katas are ineffective) and many practitioners do not know what lies between the lines.  The knowledge of reading between the lines requires a well taught instructor, for, often, this is where the important stuff is found.


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## Gerry Seymour (May 4, 2021)

wab25 said:


> If you are trying to learn Judo throws from youtube... with no real instruction... I would be worried about uke. Does your uke (the person you are throwing) know how to take the falls correctly? What surface are you using to throw her on to? Do you know when she is or is not taking the fall right? I would be worried more about injuring your uke than I would be about missing a few nuances. (of coarse a lot of the nuances you are missing are the ones that keep uke from getting broke)


This is a good point. I didn't get around to this in my earlier reply from my phone. This is part of that grappling foundation that would be really important before trying too much self-study.


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## Gerry Seymour (May 4, 2021)

D Hall said:


> I agree. Learning proper falling technique is critical to both of your safety.
> That said, let's assume you have that side of things covered. While you can't commute to this school an hour away all the time; can you do it sometimes?
> Perhaps a middle ground of booking some private lessons with the sensei there and periodic group classes can split some of the difference. Then YouTube can be used as it's more intended for, a supplemental tool.


This kind of "study group" format has been used successfully at times. I think it has a lot of advantages over only using video.


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## drop bear (May 5, 2021)

Urban Trekker said:


> So here's the story: I really want to learn judo grappling techniques, but the nearest open dojo is almost an hour away from me.  I've been wanting to do this for a long time, but there's no way to fit the commute time into my schedule.
> 
> So what have I been doing instead?  I looked up the promotion requirements for USA Judo and USJA, then I looked up the grappling techniques on YouTube - and then I practice them on my 15 year old daughter.  She doesn't like it, but she's a good sport.  I offer her the chance to get "revenge" by letting her do the techniques on me, but she refuses.
> 
> ...



When se can drop you with those moves. Then you have learned the technique.


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## drop bear (May 5, 2021)

wab25 said:


> If you are trying to learn Judo throws from youtube... with no real instruction... I would be worried about uke. Does your uke (the person you are throwing) know how to take the falls correctly? What surface are you using to throw her on to? Do you know when she is or is not taking the fall right? I would be worried more about injuring your uke than I would be about missing a few nuances. (of coarse a lot of the nuances you are missing are the ones that keep uke from getting broke)



She is 15. He could probably swing her around like a handbag. Let her down gently.


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## wab25 (May 5, 2021)

drop bear said:


> She is 15. He could probably swing her around like a handbag. Let her down gently.


You are correct! He can swing her around like a 190 pound handbag and let her down gently. There is still greater potential for injury, since neither one knows what they are doing... and 190 pounds coming over your shoulder is still 190 pounds coming over your shoulder and hitting the ground. Doesn't matter if she is 15 or 25... if she puts her hand out to reach for the mat, hits her head on the ground, lands on her shoulder, allows her knees bounce off her face.... she still gets injured.


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## Gerry Seymour (May 5, 2021)

drop bear said:


> She is 15. He could probably swing her around like a handbag. Let her down gently.


For an inexperienced person, lowering 190 lbs. gently is a bit of an ask.


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## jobo (May 5, 2021)

gpseymour said:


> For an inexperienced person, lowering 190 lbs. gently is a bit of an ask.


the whole thing is a lot more use as a strength building exercise than a judo skill exercise, im sure his daughter would be quite relived if he bought a barbell instead of using her as dead weight, im not surprised she not keen on the idea, its hardly flattering


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## Blindside (May 5, 2021)

See if that Judo instructor that is an hour a way will take you for private lessons.  If he will, have him teach you to breakfall and then pick 3 throws that you want to focus on and then focus on those.


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## reeskm (May 11, 2021)

I'm a bit late to comment on this but I have to say - despite all the things that everybody else has said above that I agree with - especially that having a great judo instructor and dojo to train at is critical to proper learning - right now we are still under a full stage 1 lockdown, COVID everywhere, variants killing left right and centre and mandatory stay at home orders with increasing penalties.

These are not normal times, at least where Iive. Until we get our life back do what you gotta do and learn virtually. Stay in shape any way you can. Be careful not to injure yourself.

Personally I would say that your best bet is to practice as many falling and tumbling techniques as you can. There are tons of them all over YouTube. Use your judgement and find the best videos and ignore the rest - and learn in your back yard in the grass, your garage with puzzle mats, etc. And be careful to take it slow and not throw your back out on day #1 of "Mr. Watanabe's Judo for YouTube Beginners"


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## reeskm (May 11, 2021)

jobo said:


> the whole thing is a lot more use as a strength building exercise than a judo skill exercise, im sure his daughter would be quite relived if he bought a barbell instead of using her as dead weight, im not surprised she not keen on the idea, its hardly flattering



I don't really see this as an issue. Families training together stay together and it's a great way to bond with your kids. As long as you're not beating them up of course! Watch out, she might just make you a star in "kick to the groin comics" if you mess this up 

(sorry, edited due to wrong quote reference)


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## Gerry Seymour (May 11, 2021)

reeskm said:


> I'm a bit late to comment on this but I have to say - despite all the things that everybody else has said above that I agree with - especially that having a great judo instructor and dojo to train at is critical to proper learning - right now we are still under a full stage 1 lockdown, COVID everywhere, variants killing left right and centre and mandatory stay at home orders with increasing penalties.
> 
> These are not normal times, at least where Iive. Until we get our life back do what you gotta do and learn virtually. Stay in shape any way you can. Be careful not to injure yourself.
> 
> Personally I would say that your best bet is to practice as many falling and tumbling techniques as you can. There are tons of them all over YouTube. Use your judgement and find the best videos and ignore the rest - and learn in your back yard in the grass, your garage with puzzle mats, etc. And be careful to take it slow and not throw your back out on day #1 of "Mr. Watanabe's Judo for YouTube Beginners"


The issue I see with this is someone with no experience on Judo falls trying to figure out what's a good video on Judo falls.


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## frank raud (May 11, 2021)

Assuming your are in Hampton Va, 2 minutes of google brings up  Log into Facebook  which apparently operates out of Grappling - Five Crow Martial Arts


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## Shatteredzen (May 11, 2021)

frank raud said:


> Assuming your are in Hampton Va, 2 minutes of google brings up  Log into Facebook  which apparently operates out of Grappling - Five Crow Martial Arts


He said he wanted Judo and has experience in grappling, that looks more like an integrated grappling class which could be good but if he really wants to learn Judo specifically, he is going to want a Judo dojo or one that teaches it as its own class.


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## Urban Trekker (May 11, 2021)

frank raud said:


> Assuming your are in Hampton Va, 2 minutes of google brings up  Log into Facebook  which apparently operates out of Grappling - Five Crow Martial Arts


I know about Five Crow.  I actually live less than a mile away.

Two issues, though:

1.  They train in other martial arts besides judo, and I don't want the awkward situation where it's pointed out that I'm training elsewhere, when I could just do everything there.
2.  I know I said I don't care about being a "credentialed" judoka, but that's in a situation where I'm not actually paying money.  If I am paying money, I want the credentials.  That being said, the judo program is not affiliated with USA Judo or USJA.

There's a BJJ spot in Williamsburg that also has a judo program (USJA affiliated), and the commute is shorter than the one I referenced in Virginia Beach (USA Judo affiliated).  The issue with the one in Williamsburg is that they've resumed BJJ after the COVID shutdown, but not the judo program.  I'm also not certain if I want to commit to that commute either; though I admit that I've never driven to that particular spot before, so I may soon, just to see what the commute is like.


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## angelariz (May 11, 2021)

Urban Trekker said:


> So here's the story: I really want to learn judo grappling techniques, but the nearest open dojo is almost an hour away from me.  I've been wanting to do this for a long time, but there's no way to fit the commute time into my schedule.
> 
> So what have I been doing instead?  I looked up the promotion requirements for USA Judo and USJA, then I looked up the grappling techniques on YouTube - and then I practice them on my 15 year old daughter.  She doesn't like it, but she's a good sport.  I offer her the chance to get "revenge" by letting her do the techniques on me, but she refuses.
> 
> ...


Drive the hour.
The set up makes the difference and you only get the set up via private lessons or small group class with different size and strength people.


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## Shatteredzen (May 11, 2021)

Urban Trekker said:


> I know about Five Crow.  I actually live less than a mile away.
> 
> Two issues, though:
> 
> ...


This is what I thought, I would say try the commute. You are learning this as a specific discipline, not just trying to freshen up your standing grappling, it will be worth the drive to learn Judo as its own thing. Its like learning boxing, I have been looking for gyms near me recently, I don't want to take a striking class, I want to learn BOXING, totally different.


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## frank raud (May 11, 2021)

Shatteredzen said:


> He said he wanted Judo and has experience in grappling, that looks more like an integrated grappling class which could be good but if he really wants to learn Judo specifically, he is going to want a Judo dojo or one that teaches it as its own class.


The facebook link is for the Virginia Academy of Judo, which operates out of Five Crows.  They state they are available for private lessons.


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## Hanshi (May 11, 2021)

If something is all you got then it's all you got.  However, watching videos is only a supplement to actual instruction.  General movements can be "mostly" learned from videos but actual techniques, not so much.  This route will have you learning mistakes more than anything else.  In any of the throwing arts the first thing that is taught is how to take a fall.  Sometimes falling techniques compose 50% or more of class time and it can go on like that for months.  Taking falls safely from any position is absolutely mandatory so learning starts there.  If one can manage a personal instruction class, solo or group, at least once every week or two then videos might be a good thing to study, if, and that's a big IF, one practices material covered in the last class.  

You might consider getting the heaviest kicking/punching bag you can find, tie a belt or rope around it and learn to handle it as if it were a live partner.  This will give you at least some experience with kuzushi and maneuvering a standing partner.  You don't have a bag?  In that case use a stationary post, tree, whatever.  Most importantly get _some _instruction from a teacher at any and every opportunity.


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## angelariz (May 11, 2021)

Hanshi said:


> If something is all you got then it's all you got.  However, watching videos is only a supplement to actual instruction.  General movements can be "mostly" learned from videos but actual techniques, not so much.  This route will have you learning mistakes more than anything else.  In any of the throwing arts the first thing that is taught is how to take a fall.  Sometimes falling techniques compose 50% or more of class time and it can go on like that for months.  Taking falls safely from any position is absolutely mandatory so learning starts there.  If one can manage a personal instruction class, solo or group, at least once every week or two then videos might be a good thing to study, if, and that's a big IF, one practices material covered in the last class.
> 
> You might consider getting the heaviest kicking/punching bag you can find, tie a belt or rope around it and learn to handle it as if it were a live partner.  This will give you at least some experience with kuzushi and maneuvering a standing partner.  You don't have a bag?  In that case use a stationary post, tree, whatever.  Most importantly get _some _instruction from a teacher at any and every opportunity.


Bjj dummies are pretty good for learning basic positioning flows.


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## frank raud (May 11, 2021)

Urban Trekker said:


> I know about Five Crow.  I actually live less than a mile away.
> 
> Two issues, though:
> 
> ...


They do private lessons in judo. USA Judo and USJA are not the only judo organizations out there.  But don't take advantage of what's in walking distance of your house.


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## Gerry Seymour (May 12, 2021)

Urban Trekker said:


> I know about Five Crow.  I actually live less than a mile away.
> 
> Two issues, though:
> 
> ...


As for comments about trraining elsewhere, it's been my experience that's more likely to be an issue in places that only train one art. Places that really train multiple arts (rather than just putting multiple base arts on their window for marketing) usually have a proportion of students who have and/or still do train elsewhere.

For the Judo affiliation, consider what the value is to you. If you're thinking you may be moving around and want to take your rank with you, organizational affiliation may matter. If that's not the case, affiliation may not matter as much. Look for the value it provides to you, personally.


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## Gerry Seymour (May 12, 2021)

angelariz said:


> Drive the hour.
> The set up makes the difference and you only get the set up via private lessons or small group class with different size and strength people.


What are you saying is lost in moderate or larger classes?


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## Tony Dismukes (May 12, 2021)

Urban Trekker said:


> But my focus is getting the person from Point A (standing) to Point B (on the ground).


I'll second all the comments that Judo is very difficult to learn from video unless you have prior relevant experience and that you are risking injury to your daughter without a proper foundation in ukemi skills on her end and proper technique on your end.

However I will add that if you are bound and determined to practice takedowns based on video, that wrestling offers a repertoire which can generally be practiced more safely for the beginner. Judo has a focus on high magnitude throws which slam the recipient down hard. In comparison, something like a wrestling single leg is easier to execute safely for the receiver. (Wrestling also includes the big slams, but they aren't the primary focus.)

Really though, get some actual instruction and some training partners who aren't your teenage daughter.


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## frank raud (May 12, 2021)

gpseymour said:


> For the Judo affiliation, consider what the value is to you. If you're thinking you may be moving around and want to take your rank with you, organizational affiliation may matter. If that's not the case, affiliation may not matter as much. Look for the value it provides to you, personally.



In my experience, no one really cares about who you got your orange belt from. OP stated he is noted interested  in being a "credentialed" judoka, I doubt he is going to get a black belt.  Very little difference in requirements between IFJA and USA Judo.


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## Yokozuna514 (May 12, 2021)

gpseymour said:


> For the Judo affiliation, consider what the value is to you. If you're thinking you may be moving around and want to take your rank with you, organizational affiliation may matter. If that's not the case, affiliation may not matter as much. Look for the value it provides to you, personally.


I am not certain that this would apply to Judo per se.   Judo is mainly geared for competition so rank is a useful when entering tournaments to ensure you are categorized properly.   It is also useful when travelling around but I suspect most dojos would want to see you in a few classes to observe your skill level before allowing you to wear the coloured belt you walked in with especially if you plan on competing under the blanket of the club.  

If competition is not your goal for Judo and you only want to practice and train, I would still tend to go with a club that has some affiliation to a larger organization so that the terms and techniques that I learn can be cross-referenced to another source should I want to have a more than one reference and I am not spending my time learning something that basically Bullshido.   

Sure there are ever evolving MA that are innovative and work but there are also schools that are no more than belt factories and babysitting pens.


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## frank raud (May 12, 2021)

Yokozuna514 said:


> , I would still tend to go with a club that has some affiliation to a larger organization so that the terms and techniques that I learn can be cross-referenced to another source


Kodokan judo is Kodokan Judo is Kodokan Judo. It matters not if what organization teaches it, all Kodokan judo dojos use the same terminology. Judo is a little unique in that it is universally taught the same way, perhaps with a different emphasis on techniques depending on whether it is a recreational or a competitive club. Much like French is the universal language of ballet, and a ballerina in California or Bosnia will know what a demi-plie is,  Judoka throughout the world know what O-goshi, or nage-waza is.  The organization does not dictate the terms, the art does.


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## Yokozuna514 (May 12, 2021)

frank raud said:


> Kodokan judo is Kodokan Judo is Kodokan Judo. It matters not if what organization teaches it, all Kodokan judo dojos use the same terminology. Judo is a little unique in that it is universally taught the same way, perhaps with a different emphasis on techniques depending on whether it is a recreational or a competitive club. Much like French is the universal language of ballet, and a ballerina in California or Bosnia will know what a demi-plie is,  Judoka throughout the world know what O-goshi, or nage-waza is.  The organization does not dictate the terms, the art does.


Yes, I understand and appreciate that.   I was referring to a comment made by GPSeymour.   In my mind, he was suggesting that a club without any affiliation teaching "Judo" may be just as valid as a club with an affiliation.  If there is no affiliation you may get something akin to McJudo.


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## frank raud (May 12, 2021)

Yokozuna514 said:


> Yes, I understand and appreciate that.   I was referring to a comment made by GPSeymour.   In my mind, he was suggesting that a club without any affiliation teaching "Judo" may be just as valid as a club with an affiliation.  If there is no affiliation you may get something akin to McJudo.


If the club has no affiliation to the Kodokan, you get generic jiu jitsu, not judo.


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## Shatteredzen (May 12, 2021)

Yokozuna514 said:


> Yes, I understand and appreciate that.   I was referring to a comment made by GPSeymour.   In my mind, he was suggesting that a club without any affiliation teaching "Judo" may be just as valid as a club with an affiliation.  If there is no affiliation you may get something akin to McJudo.





frank raud said:


> If the club has no affiliation to the Kodokan, you get generic jiu jitsu, not judo.



I agree with these, I have seen MMA gyms that claim to train "Judo" and its more like dollar menu Judo a la carte, than actual Judo.


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