# Which came first ( this is not a slam post people)



## mystic warrior (Apr 1, 2006)

The Sul Sa or the Ninja

I have seen both sides claim to be the first on this.
So what is your thoughts on the matter.
(remember this is to be a fun post not bs politics)


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## MSUTKD (Apr 1, 2006)

The first time a student asked me about Sul Sa I was shocked.  I did not know if they had a medical problem because Sul Sa means diarrhea in Korean.  It is true, no joke.

ron


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## shesulsa (Apr 1, 2006)

MSUTKD said:
			
		

> The first time a student asked me about Sul Sa I was shocked.  I did not know if they had a medical problem because Sul Sa means diarrhea in Korean.  It is true, no joke.
> 
> ron



 Actually, I believe "sal sa" or "sol sa" means diarrhea.  "Sul" is technique. "Sa" is person, making Sulsa technician.


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## Carol (Apr 1, 2006)

The difference is in the pitch of the syllable, correct?  (One of those things that doesn't translate well to the roman alphabet.)   The high pitch is the digestive condition, the low pitch means technician?


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## Dan G (Apr 1, 2006)

lady_kaur said:
			
		

> The difference is in the pitch of the syllable, correct? (One of those things that doesn't translate well to the roman alphabet.) The high pitch is the digestive condition, the low pitch means technician?


 
My Korean is very very rusty, but from what I was taught it ceased to be a tonal language about 4 centuries ago. One for the linguistics types I guess.


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## MSUTKD (Apr 1, 2006)

Can you say homonym?  I speak Korean. (&#49444;&#49324 = diarrhea = sulsa


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## mystic warrior (Apr 1, 2006)

Sir with all due respect 
do not make fun of what you do not understand.
I do not make fun of Tae kwon do.
I would hope that you show the same respect that I would show you.


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## Lisa (Apr 1, 2006)

Moderator Note.

The topic of this thread is which came first Sul sa or Ninja, not what Sul sa means.

Please, return to the original topic.  Thank you.

-Lisa Deneka
-MT Moderator-


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## MSUTKD (Apr 1, 2006)

I was not making fun.  I think that during the 80s ninja craze the term might have been invented.  I have looked in every Korean history book I have and none talked about a Sulsa.  Technique would be sool, and I have checked that too.  Honesty just trying to help out, please take no offense.

ron


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## mystic warrior (Apr 2, 2006)

Sorry sir I was just picking on ya.
You can not be in hwa rang do and not have a sense of humor


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## shesulsa (Apr 2, 2006)

MSUTKD said:
			
		

> Can you say homonym?  I speak Korean. (&#49444;&#49324 = diarrhea = sulsa



Do you speak Korean fluently?


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## Carol (Apr 2, 2006)

From what I understand, the Sulsa (Sool Sa?) are of Won'Gwang's day, early 600's, where the first Samurai were of the late 800's.  

However....where there may be confusion is that the Samurai were not Japan's firs warring clan.   Some say the first person to have the tiitle of "Shogun" was Emporer Keiko...about 600 years before.  His son prince Yamato (Takeru?) was said to a gifted martial artist, perhaps the inspiration of the Samurai. 

But, the Sulsa/Sool sa were first


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## jfarnsworth (Apr 2, 2006)

shesulsa said:
			
		

> Actually, I believe "sal sa" or "sol sa" means diarrhea. "Sul" is technique. "Sa" is person, making Sulsa technician.


This makes my brains hurt.


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## Last Fearner (Apr 4, 2006)

mystic warrior said:
			
		

> The Sul Sa or the Ninja
> 
> I have seen both sides claim to be the first on this.
> So what is your thoughts on the matter.
> (remember this is to be a fun post not bs politics)


 
The term "Sul Sa," as written in Korean hangul (&#49696;&#49324 could possibly mean sul = technique, and sa = man, or gentleman, and combine to mean technician (makes sense). However, I do not know the original intended meaning, but consider that "Ma Sul" refers to magic, the black art, or sorcery. "Ma Sul Sa" (&#47560;&#49696;&#49324 is the Korean term for a magician. Perhaps there is some connection in terminology there.

I have had an interest in "ninjutsu" since the late 1960's when I ordered my first booklet on the subject. After many years of research, all I can say is we know about as much as makes sense for the type of profession, and skills required, and believed to have been used by the Ninja, and other such groups. However, I have serious doubt that anyone will ever know the extent of everything that was known by the ninja of that time (although we know much more now), nor will we know for sure when the earliest clandestine operations were undertaken, by what name, and in what country.

I am convinced that they each had their own spies, and similar infiltrators and assassins, but who refined it, and who did what or when, would be difficult to say with any certainty since it was all done in secret. The knowledge was passed from generation to generation, within a clan, by word of mouth. Anything that anyone claims to know about Ninjutusu can only be suspect as to what the ninja chose to reveal. Perhaps some modern students have access to ancient knowledge, and perhaps they only think they do.

Here is one site that speaks of the subject of "Sul Sa, but I have not verified the information presented:
http://www.hwarangdo.net/master/sulsa.php

BTW: The translation of the Korean Hangul is phonetic, and has proven to be confusing for some since many "non-standard" versions have been in use for so long. "Sul Sa" should be written as &#49696;&#49324; . The vowel "U" in "Sul" should be pronounced like the long "U" as in the name Sue, and is written in Korean like this &#12636; . The short "u" sound is pronounced like the "u" in "up," or an "aw" sound like in the word "fall." The Korean letter for this is written &#12627; , and should be translated as "uh" or "eo." In the past, it has been written as an "o" with an umlaut. The Korean word for diarrhea is &#49444;&#49324; , and should be translated as "suhl sa," or "seol sa," but not Sul sa which is written &#49696;&#49324; .  

CM D. J. Eisenhart


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