# Prof. Presas' last interview



## Mao (Mar 27, 2002)

I had the opportunity to hear and see the last official interview that the Prof. gave.  Kelly Worden interviewed him during his last days.  Fortunately for me I have a copy. It was with Kelly Worden, and Roland Dantes with Remy. They talked about many things. A little about the "old days", a little about the present days, and a bit about the term datu and who Remy considered the datus to be. It was tear jerking for me to hear him again. I really miss his humor and how he was with my children every time he came here. There is some other conversation as well. I think that Kelly did the interview either for a radio show or an article he plans for in at least one magazine. If anyone has the opportunity to catch this when it comes out, they ought to. I could tell when Kelly was trying to let Remy rest during the conversation when he began to get tired. I think it was a very well done interview. One can see or hear some of it on KellyWorden.com  There are some pictures as well.
This is getting a bit long and has the potential to go on for a while so I'll close for now. I'll be listening to it again.


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## Bob Hubbard (Mar 27, 2002)

Couple of things were apparent to me.

I listened to this interview, as well as another that Datu Worden did about a year or 2 earlier (tapes in the car, so I dont have the date handy).  You could hear a definate difference in the GM.  His voice wasn't as sharp or clear, and he appeared to have a lot of trouble getting the words out.  Many times he excused himself, reminding the listener he'd just had surgery and was still recovering.  The fact that he could pass on as much information as he did was a testamony to his will.  On a few occations, he refered to Roland Dantes to pick up the topic as he needed the breather.

Datu Worden is a very good interviewer, asking questions that were leading, yet open enough to give the interviewee room to answer.

In comparing the 2 interviews, it makes me sad to realize what we as Martial Artists and students of Professor Presas have truely lost. 

I believe it was for his radio show (or seemed like it was for a radio show).

On the Datu subject, I'll say only this : 3 were named.  Then a 4th.  Then GM Presas asks that Roland Dantes expand on the Datu subject.  Interview then turns to GM Presas's relationship with George Dillman. (about 18 minutes into the file).

17 min in : 





> KW: We have a very close friend, and his name is Datu Shishir Inocalla. And Datu Shishir's been with you a long time,uh, he's in and out of the phillipines but right now he's here in Vancouver and I consider Shishir my senior, he's the first promoted to Datu, and then it was  myself, then I believe Deiter was next, and the progression continued from there.



GM then talks a bit about Datu Shishir.  Datu Worden is mentioned.  He mentions a bit about Datu Dieter Knuttel and then then Datu David Hoffman is discused. All are mentioned I believe in order of reciept of the Datu title.

At 19:40 on the mp3 the Professor again mentions he is recovering, and attempts to hand the discussion over to Roland Dantes to expand on "How you become a Datu". The conversation then turns to Mr. Dillman.



> 19:40
> GMRP : "Now I'm here in Victoria BC Canada,  I'm recovering from my surgury, you know, and here is my good friend Roland Dantes visiting me and Datu Kelly Worden and John, you know, John is helping me to cure some of my problem in my feet, you know, that is the only thing I can ????(cant make out the word) to all of you, I'll give you to Roland so that you will hear more about the, you know, the link(???) about how you become a Datu."
> 
> KW : "Thats right, thank you professor, thats very exciting. I've been honored through the years to train with many martial artists....."



Theres a subject change here, and either the part where Roland picked up the conversation is missing, or he wasn't given the chance to answer.  This I don't know.  

I encourage everyone to goto http://www.kellyworden.com/Pages/Audio/interview.html and listen for yourselves.


With his death, we all lost a great deal.  The wealth of knowlege he had.  Even as ill as he was, I could still sence the presence.  You hit it right on the head Mao, it was tear jerking..more so for me as I heard it right after the earlier tape.  It was very sad. I've seen many touching memories of GM Presas all over the web (most recently Datu Hoffmans here: http://www.xpres.net/~gmattson/ubbs/Forum37/HTML/000073.html )and I'm that much sadder that I didn't find Arnis sooner, so that I might have had the privilage of meeting him.



I'll say this : I never met GM Presas. I wish I had. Anyone who would use this great man's death or twist his words for their own political or financial gain, is scum.  That is -my- opinion.  Take it for what is is worth.
:asian:


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## Bob Hubbard (Mar 28, 2002)

Just wanted to be clear...my statement 


> I'll say this : I never met GM Presas. I wish I had. Anyone who would use this great man's death or twist his words for their own political or financial gain, is scum. That is -my- opinion. Take it for what is is worth.


 is not aimed at Mao, or anyone in general.  Its target was various other posts, and just fell here.  Sorry for any confusion on that one.

I've been in contact with Datu Worden about my concerns, and at this time, I have really nothing further to say, other than listen to the audio.  At the very least, it will bring back memories for the old-school folks, and show the new players a small part of who GM Presas was.  To those who knew him well, I hope to hear more of your memories of the GM, and I sincerly hope that Datu Worden makes available hit other interview(s) with the GM.

Arigato.

:asian:


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## Mao (Mar 28, 2002)

I agree. For someone to twist words or manipulate things after Remys passing, or even while he was alive, is a pathetic testament to their character. For the record though, I don't think that Kelly would do this. After having gotten to know him over time, he certainly does not need to create a facad or fish for legitimisation. He has done a tremendous amount of work for Modern Arnis and it's propagation and betterment. I am not saying this, in any way what-so-ever, to kiss up or position myself any differently than I am. I am a representative of Modern Arnis and IMAF, inc. and proud of it. I just happen to know, or at least I think I do, Kelly well enough to know that he is being forthright in his efforts. He does take issue with some people for specific reasons. Who and for what is for him to say, unless he asks someone else to.  I have said before on this forum that the Prof. felt comfortable enough with me to tell me how he felt about certain people and why. I also said that somethings are better left unsaid. If people spoke everything they knew all the time, there would be alot of friction and hurt feelings. I guess that I am saying that I gained a bit of insight as to what the Prof. looked for in some people. If I don't know someone well enough, I won't immediately jump to speak about them. That would be common sense I guess, but alot of people lack that. Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored, or misrepresented.


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## Mao (Mar 28, 2002)

Thanks for that. I did not think that you aimed your post at me. I posted what I did in an effort to dispell any possible wrong assumptions. But you did that apparently before I finished typing my post. POOP!     

 by the way, I wasn't hiding behind that smile.     or that one.


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## Toasty (Mar 29, 2002)

I listened to that interview as well.
First of all, I am not a Modern Arnis practitioner,{but my teacher Ted Buot & Prof. Presas were pretty good friends}and I have no interest how Modern Arnis restructures its house. 
One thing that confused me on that tape is why Mr. Worden kept saying "Espada DeeGah" (sic). Even after Remy corrects him with "Espada y Daga", i would think that with the amount of training in the Filipino arts Mr. Worden has he would know the correct pronunciation (cause he does it at least 3-4 times & is corrected as many).
Also i thought there was a perfect opportunity to enlighten everyone as to the future of Modern Arnis when the phone rings & after the come back from break to talk about the future of Modern Arnis. yet Mr. Worden glosses over it with an aside then moves to something else.  But perhaps that was neither the time nor place to get into such things. 

anyway, just a couple of observations.
My condolences to the Modern Arnis family for your loss of Prof. Presas.

Rob


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## bloodwood (Mar 29, 2002)

It would have been nice if Kelly let Roland Dantes answer the Datu question on either of the times the Professor passed the question on to him but it was good to hear Remy's voice again talking about what he loved most. Considering his health I think it went well.


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## Bob Hubbard (Mar 29, 2002)

It was a good interview.  It was sad though.  I noticed a big difference in GM from the earlier interview.  In comparing the 2 interviews, I noticed a more subdued tone. A loss for words, etc.  All of which was easily explained as he'd recently had surgury.  I have trouble when I get migranes, I can only imagine what one would go through after brain surgury.  You could sence the will was there, but the energy was dimmed.

Don't get me wrong, it was a very good interview.  But the mental image I'll keep is the previous interview, where you could hear the power.  I've got 3 interviews on the tape, 1 from 99, from a seminar with George Dillman, this one, and 1 with Roland Dantes.  I do hope Datu Worden makes them all available publically.  The history alone is eye opening.


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## no fefe (Mar 29, 2002)

This is in response to comments and statements have been made by certain parties the first is from Roland Dantes, the second is from Greg Walker.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Dear Brother Datu Kelly,
>
>Thank you for the communication once again and keeping me informed
>of developments...First of all...Let me compliment you for your
>outstanding accomplishments most especially in the propagation of
>the Philippine Martial Arts as a whole !
>BROTHER DO NOT BE AFFECTED BY ANY NEGATIVE COMMENTS OR CRITIZISM
>.....THAT IS A SIGN AND PART OF YOUR SUCCESS...REMEMBER THAT
>IF YOU ARE A NOBODY....NO ONE WOULD EVEN MIND..BUT BECAUSE YOU
>ARE A SOMEBODY....JEALOUSY WILL ALWAYS ARISE !
>THE LATE PROFESSOR EVEN EXPERIENCED SO MANY NEGATIVE COMMENTS
>AND RIDICULOUS CRITIZISM.....IT ALL BOILED DOWN TO...PROFESSIONAL
>JEALOUSY....OF COURSE REMY GOT HURT TOO..AS I KNOW YOU WOULD ...BECAUSE
>...I KNOW YOUR INTENTION IS FOR THE GOOD OF THE ART ...AND ALL YOU ARE AFTER 
>IS ...FOR THE TRUTH...REMEMBER AGAIN BROTHER...NO MATTER WHAT
>...THE TRUTH WILL ALWAYS PREVAIL ..AND GOING BACK TO THE PROFESSOR...
>HE JUST DISREGARDED ALL THOSE COMMENTS AND CRITIZISM..AND IN THE END
>...WHAT HAPPENED...HE BECAME MORE POPULAR THAN EVER AND THIS IS NOW
>PART OF HIS TREMENDOUS SUCCESS...HE ATTAINED A NAME AND A LEGACY THAT 
>SURPASSED
>THE PREDICTIONS AND ASSUMPTIONS OF THOSE WHO HAD CRITIZISED HIM..
>SO THEN BROTHER...CARRY ON YOUR GOOD WORK..FOR YOU WILL NEVER BE ALONE
>..YOU HAVE MY PERSONAL SUPPORT AND THAT OF THE MOTHER ORGANIZATION OF
>THE PHILIPPINE MARTIAL ARTS ( ARNIS PHILIPPINES )UNDER THE PHILIPPINE
>OLYMPIC COMMITTEE..WHICH IS NOT A PRIVATE ENTITY OR CORPORATION..
>BUT DIRECTLY UNDER THE PHILIPPINE GOVERNMENT.
>
>MABUHAY KA DATU KELLY !
>
>YOUR BROTHER IN THE ARTS,
>ROLAND
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When I founded Full Contact I became aware, in a very short span of time, just how juvenile and petty the martial arts world can be.
Over the course of many, many hours of interviewing, training, meeting, listening to, and evaluating those whom I came in contact with as the magazine's editor, I learned the following.

The "classical mess" today is found in the mean-spirited, self-serving, childish antics of far too many students and instructors who would be better off taking care of their businesses and reputations than rat-packing others in the same line of work.

Kelly Worden, who is a great friend of mine, has recently come under such "fire". When I heard about this I offered him the following advice.

Let it go.

Kelly, as is the case with many other accomplished professionals in the world of the Arts, doesn't need to entertain ankle biters.

And ankle biters, the real world out here doesn't care a whit about your claims, concerns, outrage, accusations, challenges, or anything else We don't. Nada. Zip. Aloha, brudder. 

Your world is la-la land. Personality cult poo-poo. Whinerville.

Again, NO ONE in the real world of daily living cares about martial arts politics, personalities, or how bad you may think you are or what "master" or "art" you feel you have to defend to the death to get attention from your peers or equally bled-out "instructors".

Get real.

As I shared with Kelly the proper response thing is simply this.

Be normal. 

Be happy.

Continue to make others normal and happy through their contact with you. Live life fully. Each day given us is blessed. Tomorrow may never come, or may take someone we love and care for away. Don't waste a moment on an idiot, or on feeling sorry for one's self.

Early on in Full Contact a young instructor shared a handwritten and signed letter from another instructor regarding, in part, myself and the new magazine. The author's written words were far different in tone and intent than what I'd been hearing from him since we'd met. It was his "secret" plan to use me and to exploit the publication for his own benefit by pretending to become a valued friend and teacher.

The young instructor who'd received this letter was mortified. He asked me what he should do, and offered his sincere apologies for anything he may have said or done that contributed to the charade discussed in the letter.

In short, he was a man of honor.

I simply told him he was now at peace with himself over the issue, and that was all that counted. We remain friends.

As for the letter, I found its content extremely educational. It's author and I went on to work together for some time afterward. I doubt he ever knew I'd read his correspondence. He ended up contributing valuable, informative, timely work to the magazine and for this I made sure he received due credit, compensation, and publicity. He was never able to exploit me or the title, and I learned some wonderful things from him along the way. 

We also became respectful friends.

And we are friends to this day.

His name is not important nor would I share it with anyone even if it were.

Kelly Worden, however, helped me to understand such a person and this flaw in the martial arts world. He guided my approach on how to best deal with this situation so - if it were possible - a positive and constructive resolution might be brought about.

This is the one trait I've always seen in Kelly Worden...

The immense capacity he has to absorb the arrows flung at him by truly small people with small hearts, and to then give, give, and keep on giving to help the same road rats that on a moment's notice will betray his loyalty, faith, assistance, friendship, and transfer of skills.

Kelly, you see, had great teachers himself.

So I continue to tell him to ignore the detractors and emotional pinheads who unfortunately infest the Arts as they always have.

It's not necessary.

Kelly Worden is first and foremost a man.

He is then a husband and a father.

He is then a friend.

He is then a warrior among warriors.

He is then a teacher and keeper of the flame.

He is a grandmaster in his own right.

And a Grandmaster in the Art of Life, as well.

He need not explain or defend himself to anyone, much less those of us who care for him as part of his extended family.

All this other "classical mess" is just that.

Do your own work and no one can touch you.

Thank you Professor - and Datu Worden - for teaching us this through your own work and manner of living that work.

Greg Walker

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

These posts can also be read at http://www.xpres.net/~gmattson/ubbs/ in the World Modern Arnis Coalition: "The art within your art".  forum.

Robert Koenig


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## Bob (Mar 29, 2002)

Presas audio Tape retraction

Well I want to thank everyone with an opinion for clarifying my motives. Of course I think the critics of the interview give me way to much credit to have the power to lead questions and force the correct response from Professor Presas with his personal friend and student in the room Roland Dantes. 
When a Man, especially a great man is faced with death, it would seem those that really care about him would go out of their way to make their relationship right before it is to late. What this nitpicking is about is really one Man who did not, he got left out in the interview, not even mentioned, Professor was no fool and certainly wasn't so ill as to be manipulated. It was Professors' choice not mine, like it or not the interview was conducted without a script or an agenda. Similar questions were asked in the first interview done live on the spot, on the Radio. Interestingly Professor actually answered some of the questions in the second interview a little more in-depth than in the first.
What is really sad, this interview was a gift, a gift to others in Modern Arnis, a record of days gone by. I do not think anyone else took the time or effort to record this rare look into a dying Master's final words. Some exciting, some emotionally hard. The critics were not there, they didn't even know him, yet they want to judge me as deceitful, Remy as incoherent and manipulated, and Roland Dantes to weak to protect Professor against the "evil mind controlling Datu"... Three Men, friends,,, Remy referred to Roland and I as brothers, no longer students, Brothers! Thirty years for Roland, Twenty for me, good bad and indifferent we didn't always see eye to eye, but we loved each other and shared the love of the art, Professors' Art, Modern Arnis....
There is much more to say, but you can say it to each other in your internet squabbles, my relationship and trust of Remy Presas is not open for you to trash, nor is Professors' memory open for you to question his mental state or reasoning. None of you would step up and question it when he was living, and I doubt if you would step up in front of me with your insults. If you would, please come to Oregon with Tim Hartman in June and I will discuss anything you would care to discuss.
So as the old saying goes, and since it is an American saying and I can actually speak English, "You shouldn't kick a gift horse in the mouth!"
For those who had nothing to offer but negative nitpicking, you will probably always be negative and miserable looking for the worse in people and life... For those who enjoyed hearing Remy Presas speak, remember any words of wisdom he shared and remember who your friends are and seek to resolve issues now so you do not become miserable, cynical, and critical of others...
As of this weekend the audio interview of Remy A. Presas will be excluded from my website and not available to further access.... 
Issue closed,
Kelly S. Worden
Friend and Brother of Professor Presas


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## Bob Hubbard (Mar 29, 2002)

This is my reply to that statement on Mr. Wordens forum.  I expect it to be removed shortly.  Get the interview while you can folks.  



> Sigh.
> 
> My Statement was not a challenge.  Why does the small membership of this group -always- seem to see challenges where there are none?
> I considered the issue closed and I had not recieved a reply to my email from Mr. Worden.  I simply stated that fact, and that I was not CONCERNED with with it any more.  not that I didn't care which is different.
> ...


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## bloodwood (Mar 29, 2002)

If I am not mistaken it was Datu Worden's people who several months ago landed on Martial Talk like a ton of bricks, making accusations and telling of how Datu Worden had some big thing he was soon do disclose. When Datu Worden jumped head first into the Modern Arnis political scene with such a splash, people are going to question his motives. I don't believe anyone was saying anything negative about Datu Worden until all his people started defending him and accusing people when there was no need to do so. As for Datu Worden's relationship with the Professor I am happy for him that he has those memories to treasure. With so much of what the Professor did or wanted being unavailable to the public after his passing I believe that people out of frustration to find answers are picking everything apart piece by piece in an attempt to find what little info they can. Maybe if his will would be probated maybe the questions we ask could be answered. So to who ever out there that is the executer of the Professor's will, how about doing the right thing making it public. If you don't, it only stands to reason that something in the will would not do the executer and whatever group they are associated with any good or it would have be done already.
And Datu Kelly, don't be childish by giving a piece of candy then taking it away. There are many people who would cherish the Professor's words just as you do.


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## Bob Hubbard (Mar 29, 2002)

I think this thread at E-Budo says it all.
http://204.95.207.136/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10980



> Endless Rivalry
> The Irritating and Complex Politics of the Online Self-Defense World
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> ...



Please go there and read the full thread.  It speaks volumes on many of the controvercies we see.

Arigato.
:asian:


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## bloodwood (Mar 29, 2002)

It would seem the term childish does apply to Datu Worden. After reviewing a post made by Datu Worden on Uechi-Ryu forum, I found this as a part of  his recent quote concerning the Professor interview





> and the title of Datu, if you listen closely Professor only lists 4 people as Datu Ranked!



Now that is childish and politically motivated. And if Roland Dantes is part of this, shame on him too. Maybe thats why Roland never jumped in on the Datu issue when the Professor passed him the ball. A truly sad day for Modern Arnis.:wah:


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## Mao (Mar 30, 2002)

What a bunch of B.S.. There is a biblical passage that speaks to casting pearl before swine. It holds true here. I f I had posted something I cherished publicaly and it got ridiculed, torn apart and challenged or questioned, I'd remove it too! Remys memory doesn't deserve that! Shame on you! Why would Kelly have to manipulate? He was around LONG before most of those who are involved in all this, me included.  I appreciate his willingness to share this memory with me. Tim has many memories too. I'm sure some are as sherished as Kelly's. I know some are not. Tim was around before me, too. I was luckey enough to have gotten close to the Prof. and him feel comfortable enough to share his feelings with me. If many of those feelings were made public, many people would be hurt, pissed, disturbed.They are the facts however. And even though they are, I'm sure some people would challenge them, attempt to distort them or just call me a liar. So I don't make them public. Kelly chose to and got kicked in the nuts for it. I don't think that he deserved that, especially by those who are so uninformed, did not know Remy, weren't there, and can't back up their words. I can, Kelly can, both by people who were there with us and by audio or video tape. Even with that there would people who would dispute them. People dispute the bible. People dispute undisputable facts about the various wars that America has been in. There will always be those people. Those who would avail themselves or their cherished memories to such ridicule are pretty ballsie. They risk this ridicule. Do they deserve it? I'd take my ball and go home too. My feelins would be hurt. I might even cry, in private, because to do so in public would expose a part of me to more punishment. How cruel people can be! Lets just "do our work" and "nevermind the barking dogs" as Remy said to me. Go ahead, slam that one too.


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## Don Rearic (Mar 30, 2002)

The "Endless Rivalry" article was written by a friend of mine. How ironic. I believe if Phil knew the matter at hand, he would not be hanging the title or accusation on Datu Worden.  Not that he did either, it is just cited in this thread.


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## Bob Hubbard (Mar 30, 2002)

Other than this, I will not be addressing this issue further:

I asked questions.  Things have been blown out of proportion, exagurated, and misunderstood.  This has turned from a gift and a question, to threats and a mess.

I considered the matter answered after Mr. Wordens email to me.  Things exploded after that.  It has left all involved looking poorly.

I am publicly again asking Kelly Worden to continue to share the interviews he did with Gm Presas.  They are his property, he can do with them as he wishes.

If I am the sole reason for his retraction, as seems to be indicated, then I apologize to the Modern Arnis community.

I am moving on. There are other things of more concern to us all than this issue, of 1 mans questions, and another hurt feelings.

If anyone has a problem with my position on this issue, feel please free to email me.  If you wish to discuss it here, that is fine too, but I will say no more.

Good day to you all.


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## bloodwood (Mar 30, 2002)

MAO, I am not here to argue with you or anyone else, in fact I've enjoyed reading your posts in the past. You have much to offer. I am mearly pointing out some issues that I feel were not done in good taste and I believe were meant to discredit someone. Maybe I'm wrong but I'm only looking at what I've seen and heard on posts, here and elsewhere. So if only 4 Datus were mentioned on the tape then let the tape speak for itself. It did not need to be reiterated again in a post. That's the childish and political part. And for Roland, WHY didn't he chime in when asked to do so? I'm not making this up, this IS how the audio went. 
It started to look like everyone was starting to get along and then this, I just don't get. Is this the big event that Datu Kelly's people have been hinting at for some time now? I hope not. 
And just so you know, I did know the Professor , and I am informed. and have a right to question what I don't see as good for Modern Arnis 
:asian:


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## Mao (Mar 30, 2002)

I did not use your name. If you choose to put yourself in that position, then fine. The post speaks for itself.


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## Dan Anderson (Mar 30, 2002)

Wow!  FOODFIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :flame: I wish I had heard the tape so I could see what all the ruckus was about.  Could anyone make me a copy and send me one?
Dan Anderson


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## Datu Tim Hartman (Mar 30, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Dan Anderson _
> 
> *Wow!  FOODFIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :flame: *



The funny thing is that I didn't start this one for once. 

Dan, 
    call me on my cell when you get a chance. 716-432-0600


Tim


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