# Entertainment value?



## jkd friend (Jun 10, 2009)

Does the entertianment value take a bit away from the overall skill aspect of fighters in the UFC. For example one of my favorite fighters(lyoto machida) was cirticized for not being flashy enough and/or forward enough. Can this be the cause of some fighters losing, trying to give the fans a big show? I for one can deal with a slow probing type of fight because when things happen the skill of the fighter truely comes out and all that training comes forth for that individual. I know I maybe one in a million rooting for a slow skillful and careful fight over a slugfest but in my opinion it shows the true winner!


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## MA-Caver (Jun 10, 2009)

jkd friend said:


> Does the entertianment value take a bit away from the overall skill aspect of fighters in the UFC. For example one of my favorite fighters(lyoto machida) was cirticized for not being flashy enough and/or forward enough. Can this be the cause of some fighters losing, trying to give the fans a big show? I for one can deal with a slow probing type of fight because when things happen the skill of the fighter truely comes out and all that training comes forth for that individual. I know I maybe one in a million rooting for a slow skillful and careful fight over a slugfest but in my opinion it shows the true winner!


Aesop noted that slow and plodding wins the race. Unfortunately we live in a society of hares and tortoises are oh so passe'. Either that or they got rockets strapped to their shells (ala Warner Brother's take on the fable). 

WWF type Wrestling used to be slow gritty and ugly. Now it's all flash and dash and oh how pretty am I with my costume and flowing hair and the girls hanging off each arm. 

Coming soon to a UFC nearest you.


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## Tez3 (Jun 10, 2009)

Take the UFC with a pinch of salt and get yourself off to the grassroots shows.


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## jarrod (Jun 10, 2009)

i like a good middle ground.  i like an intelligent fighter, but i hate seeing a fighter who thinks he's ahead on the scorecards coast for the last minute or two.  

jf


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## CoryKS (Jun 10, 2009)

For me, the entertainment value of MMA comes strictly from the skill of the fighters.  I like watching good technique, and in that respect Machida is becoming one of my favorite fighters to watch.  

OTish:  You know, I've never been a sports person.  My wife loves basketball, and understands the game to the degree that she often gives commentary that is echoed seconds later by the announcer on tv.  She can tell you what kind of defense they're playing, so-and-so is setting up a screen, etc.  To me, games like basketball and football look like a bunch of guys running around each other.  So you can understand the thrill I got the first time I called out "armbar!" seconds before a fighter hooked his leg around and stretched out.  I think I finally found my sport!


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## Ronin74 (Jun 10, 2009)

I think this is one of those topics where personal opinion and taste plays a big role.

Now I haven't seen any of Anderson Silva's fights since he fought James Irvin, but when he fought Patrick Cote, most of the feedback I got was how much Silva played it out too long, or even how much he was playing more to the crowd than fighting the fight. On the other hand, a few people told me they felt Silva fought his fight and made it his game. Again, I never saw the fight, but here are two differing opinions from two different groups.

Personally, I enjoy watching the sport when I can, and see it more as a test of skills. Whether it's a quick KO or a drag-out to a decision, I think it's cool to see the product of what years of training come down to. That said, I see it as the sport I enjoy watching. Like football, there are good games and bad games- it's all on opinion.

On a sidenote, while I'd like to attend a live event someday, I prefer watching it PPV or online. I don't get up and cheer, but I tend to watch the fights much like I'm reading a book. On top of that, I'm a pretty short guy and 4 out of 5 times, a taller person usually sits in front of me... lol.


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## Tez3 (Jun 11, 2009)

Ronin74 said:


> I think this is one of those topics where personal opinion and taste plays a big role.
> 
> Now I haven't seen any of Anderson Silva's fights since he fought James Irvin, but when he fought Patrick Cote, most of the feedback I got was how much Silva played it out too long, or even how much he was playing more to the crowd than fighting the fight. On the other hand, a few people told me they felt Silva fought his fight and made it his game. Again, I never saw the fight, but here are two differing opinions from two different groups.
> 
> ...


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## crushing (Jun 11, 2009)

Tez3 said:


> Take the UFC with a pinch of salt and get yourself off to the grassroots shows.


 
I've been to a 'grassroots' show and it was actually worse.  Within moments of the fight going to the ground the crowd would start chanting "Stand them up!", like they were expecting kick boxing rather than MMA.  Unfortunately, the ref easily caved to the crowd pressure independent of how well the fight was really going on the ground.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Jun 11, 2009)

Well I could do with less posturing and less attitude and just plain good old fights.  Take for instance the TUF series on SpikeTV.  Usually it is all drama in the house and really that is a waste of my time.  However, last night I turned it on and they had two fights back to back with little to no drama and walla the end product was two pretty good fights.  That is what the UFC needs to work on good fights with less of the low class, low end drama.


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## MattJ (Jun 11, 2009)

jkd friend said:


> Does the entertianment value take a bit away from the overall skill aspect of fighters in the UFC.


 
I don't think so - some guys are very skilled with the flashy stuff (Jon Jones, Jose Aldo). They are not easier opponents because they are flashy. It's a different type of skill from what Machida does.


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## Ronin74 (Jun 12, 2009)

Tez3 said:


> Now this is where it's such a shame that we have a ruddy great ocean between us, I'd invite you to one of our shows and make sure you got a front seat....unless you wanted to fight lol?


They'd better be short fighters... lol. Even at my ideal weight, there's still quite a few fighters with a significant reach advantage. Back when I did Karate as a teenager, I sparred with a guy who's arm reach was maybe two inches shorter than my leg reach... lol.

I actually went to a Golden Gloves boxing event a few years ago, and one of my friends who was fighting got me ringside tickets. Because the ring is elevated (and I'm assuming this is usually the norm for MMA events as well), I had to stand up to watch the most of the fights.


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## Tez3 (Jun 12, 2009)

crushing said:


> I've been to a 'grassroots' show and it was actually worse. Within moments of the fight going to the ground the crowd would start chanting "Stand them up!", like they were expecting kick boxing rather than MMA. Unfortunately, the ref easily caved to the crowd pressure independent of how well the fight was really going on the ground.


 

The people we get here are now mostly knowledgable about MMA and over the past couple of years there's been few shouts of 'stand em up' or anything else that isn't feasible! it's taken a while but theres a good core of fans now who come to the shows here. Obviously there's still some idiots but it's getting far better. 


Ronin, here's the showreel for our fight night "Unstoppable" from the other week, just to give you a taster!


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## Ronin74 (Jun 12, 2009)

Brian R. VanCise said:


> Well I could do with less posturing and less attitude and just plain good old fights. Take for instance the TUF series on SpikeTV. Usually it is all drama in the house and really that is a waste of my time. However, last night I turned it on and they had two fights back to back with little to no drama and walla the end product was two pretty good fights. That is what the UFC needs to work on good fights with less of the low class, low end drama.


I can only echo Brian's thoughts as well. Personally, I don't mind hearing a *little* of the backstory to a rivalry, but not to the point where petty squabbles make for a bigger part of the show than the fighters. If anyone caught that same episode I believe Brian mentioned, there was hardly any drama and the fights were good. Incidently, those tow guys impressed me from the get-go, since their elimination fights in the UK.

Thanks for that clip Tez. I can appreciate fights like that, where it's a sense of a great fight, and not a fight with some huge backstory. In the end, what I enjoy watching is a good match-up, regardless of whether the fighters are sluggers, punchers, brawlers, technicians, etc. Two trilogies I'd like to point out are the Tito Ortiz/Ken Shamrock rivalry, and the GSP/Matt Hughes rivalry. Both had quite a backstory to them, and both fighters had some kind of grudge that probably helped with marketing as well as being planned by it/ However, once we take away all that dramatic crap, one trilogy came off as two well-conditioned fighters trying to outclass the other; the other trilogy seemed more like a young guy beating up an older guy who was still asking for more.


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## Tensei85 (Jun 12, 2009)

Tez3 said:


> The people we get here are now mostly knowledgable about MMA and over the past couple of years there's been few shouts of 'stand em up' or anything else that isn't feasible! it's taken a while but theres a good core of fans now who come to the shows here. Obviously there's still some idiots but it's getting far better.
> 
> 
> Ronin, here's the showreel for our fight night "Unstoppable" from the other week, just to give you a taster!




Awesome! Looks great, that's something that were really lacking in Michigan.
But atleast we have some amateur MMA events, so I guess its better than none.


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## TheArtofDave (Jun 28, 2009)

_*I think when it comes right down to it. The company sees the entertainment value that the match ups, the back story, and the trash talk can produce. As long as the trash talk is not over done to the point where it becomes annoying, and point less.

The drama of the fighters in the house are usually that they're not use to being on national television competing for a contract. They're not thinking about hey I'm gonna go home and work my third shift job once I lose. Very few times do you see any humble fighters, just stay out of the drama, go to bed early, get up even earlier, and train even harder.

I watch TUF for that because sooner or later there has to be a fighter who just wants to fight, regardless of whether he wins or loses. He'll fight, and be successful any place he goes.

We as fans see the technique. Dana White does to an extent. Reviewing tapes, or hearing about the next big cash cow to line the companies pockets.

I enjoyed the technique of submission fighters more so than power fighters. Submission fighters seem to be more methodical than the power ones. Of course Machida is also a favorite of mine too. I didn't like Evans because of his attitude.

The fights can take several different directions and turns, and that's what makes it exciting for me. Whose technique is better? And whose technique will constantly improve? That is a good formula for me.
*_


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