# Grabbing with the thumb



## Handsword (May 26, 2003)

From a top position, when going for a figure-4 arm lock, do you separate your thumb from the rest of your fingers when grabbing the opponent's wrist (like when picking up a drinking glass) or do you cup the hand?

I've previously used my thumb for this grip as I felt that it gave better control for all directions of movement by closing-off the circle.

However, I recently been using the cupped hand grip which a number of BJJ-ists (of much greater skill than myself) seem to use.  I think that the reason is that it allows greater power when pushing the wrist to the floor.  Can anyone else shed some light on this?

Also, when attempting a figure-4 from the botton position (say, the guard), which grip do you use?

Thanks in advance!


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## arnisador (May 26, 2003)

I've been told that, when doing this from the mount, the thumb should be kept with the fingers.


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## bob919 (May 30, 2003)

the thumb is ptreyy vulnerable keeping it cupped with your fingers keeps it safer


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## James Kovacich (May 30, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Handsword _
> *From a top position, when going for a figure-4 arm lock, do you separate your thumb from the rest of your fingers when grabbing the opponent's wrist (like when picking up a drinking glass) or do you cup the hand?
> 
> I've previously used my thumb for this grip as I felt that it gave better control for all directions of movement by closing-off the circle.
> ...



Its easier, faster and safer to keep the thumb alongside the fingers. Theres no need for added power and I will apply it that way from any position.

Mobility is important in grappling and the thumb alongside the fingers will allow for swift transitions.


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## KenpoDragon (May 30, 2003)

Honestly I prefer grabbing and locking with the thumb,i.e separating the thumb from the other fingers. Why you may ask, two words "transitional locks", if you have your thumb securing the opponent's wrist you can switch locks easier as opposed to not locking their wrist up. I agree that keeping the thumb with the other fingers does add power, but it takes away possibilities. You are more committed when you use the entire hand as opposed to locking your thumb and getting a better "grip". Of course you could always switch after you have the hold, starting with the fingers together, and then switching, if you choose. Just my opinion though.

:asian:


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## James Kovacich (May 30, 2003)

> _Originally posted by KenpoDragon _
> *Honestly I prefer grabbing and locking with the thumb,i.e separating the thumb from the other fingers. Why you may ask, two words "transitional locks", if you have your thumb securing the opponent's wrist you can switch locks easier as opposed to not locking their wrist up. I agree that keeping the thumb with the other fingers does add power, but it takes away possibilities. You are more committed when you use the entire hand as opposed to locking your thumb and getting a better "grip". Of course you could always switch after you have the hold, starting with the fingers together, and then switching, if you choose. Just my opinion though.
> 
> :asian: *



I believe that there is more power using your thumb to wrap around the wrist but my analogy came from a submission grapping position. When rolling, position transitions are faster keeping your thumb next to your fingers.

Were you talking about standing? Can you explain your transitional locks better? What lock to what lock? Thanx

:asian:


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## KenpoDragon (May 30, 2003)

Possibility of 2 scenarios......

1. Standing up, you have your opponent in the "figure 4' arm lock, but have not taken him down yet. Assuming that you have his right arm locked up, instead of forcing him down, pull him back towards your right shoulder while stepping back with your right leg. While in the motion bring his right arm under you left armpit, you should now have your back against his right ribcage. Now the pressure of the lock should be focused on his right elbow joint. If you wanted you could also have driven him down face first into the ground while pulling him towards you and rotating your hips and "winding down" , no pausing in the motion.

2. While having "the mount" position,i.e you on top of him, swing your left leg over his head and across his neck. Simultaneously placing your right leg across his chest, now in a basic armbar position, push up with your hips and apply pressure.

I didn't get into the "switching" of the hands position because it's fairly easy to figure out if you know the other locks. I hope that clarifies what I said earlier.

:asian: KenpoDragon


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## Handsword (Jun 1, 2003)

Thanks for the responses.

I'm trying to enforce a new habit of using the thumb with the fingers while grappling, but still tend to separate the thumb during most stand-up, wrist grabbing techniques.

KenpoDragon - I found the 'transitional locks' distincition quite helpful and it's got me thinking about a few related issues.

Here's a related question that I'll keep in the same post - 

From a groundfighting perspective - how do you take advantage of an opponent who grabs your wrist with the thumb separated?

Thanks again,


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## ace (Jun 12, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Handsword _
> *From a top position, when going for a figure-4 arm lock, do you separate your thumb from the rest of your fingers when grabbing the opponent's wrist (like when picking up a drinking glass) or do you cup the hand?
> 
> I've previously used my thumb for this grip as I felt that it gave better control for all directions of movement by closing-off the circle.
> ...



i Use Both:asian:


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