# Vatican Forgives Lennon



## MA-Caver (Nov 23, 2008)

> *Vatican forgives John Lennon for Jesus remark*
> 
> 11/22/2008 3:00 PM, Reuters
> http://music.yahoo.com/read/news/61898954
> ...


42 years later and they NOW forgive him? ...  Wonder how he would've taken it if he were still alive?. Probably would've written a song that just edged with sarcasm... remember "The Ballad Of John & Yoko" ?

38 years later after breaking up... hard to "imagine" (but it's easy if you try) and their music just still rocks on. It wasn't *just* Lennon-McCartney either, Harrison and Starr/Starkey had individually & collectively made their significant contributions to the Beatles. 

Still that "we're more popular than Jesus" remark today wouldn't have caused as much ire except among "radical" fundamentalists. Anyway it was a joke, tongue in cheek remark about their fame that just was at the time unlike any ever seen (except of course by Elvis-mania). 
I still find it sad that those blokes got thoroughly ripped off  by the lack of royalties from merchandising, concerts and record sales when they hit the states. To my understanding they received a pithy sum for their concerts and record sales and just about nothing from all the Beatle-mania merchandising. There SHOULD'VE been a law back then.


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## grydth (Nov 23, 2008)

The time for a gesture like this would have been right after Lennon's statement was made. Imagine all the silly outrage that could have been averted.

Now, this is superficial and silly. Where, indeed, is either the sin or the repentance here? 

If it takes you 42 years to forgive something this trivial, are you any example to follow?


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## MBuzzy (Nov 23, 2008)

I'd have to agree there. Too little, too late.  Especially from an organization that preaches forgiveness, but it often seems that they practice condemnation.


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## arnisador (Nov 23, 2008)

Eh, big of them.


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## MA-Caver (Nov 23, 2008)

MBuzzy said:


> I'd have to agree there. Too little, too late.  Especially from an organization that preaches forgiveness, but it often seems that they practice condemnation.


True, but then again they might have not thought about it until some jr. priest walked by one of the cardinals humming a Beatles tune to himself and the cardinal went... *ding* :idea: "ohh yeah, him!"


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## Gordon Nore (Nov 23, 2008)

If I read this correctly, Lennon has been forgiven by the Vatican for expressing an opinion.


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## Carol (Nov 23, 2008)

Perhaps it would have been better if the Vatican didn't forgive him at all.


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## Cryozombie (Nov 23, 2008)

Gordon Nore said:


> If I read this correctly, Lennon has been forgiven by the Vatican for expressing an opinion.


 
Actually, he was forgiven for Blaspheming the man they consider a savior.

If I came on here and called someone an *******, it would be opinion, but it would still be wrong by the standards of Martialtalk... and my understanding of the Sniping policy, unless it has changed is the points that earns me NEVER go away, so at least the Vatican is more forgiving than Bob.  



Sorry Bob.


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## Gordon Nore (Nov 23, 2008)

Cryozombie said:


> Actually, he was forgiven for Blaspheming the man they consider a savior.
> 
> If I came on here and called someone an *******, it would be opinion, but it would still be wrong by the standards of Martialtalk...



But John Lennon didn't call someone a *******. He said The Beatles were more popular than Jesus.



> ...and my understanding of the Sniping policy, unless it has changed is the points that earns me NEVER go away, so at least the Vatican is more forgiving than Bob.
> 
> Sorry Bob.


Now here's a test of forgiveness: _The Bible is more popular than MT._


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## Xue Sheng (Nov 23, 2008)

Not bad actually for the Vatican, I don't think they forgave Galileo until the 1970s or 1980s for saying the earth revolves around the sun


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## Tames D (Nov 23, 2008)

Gordon Nore said:


> But John Lennon didn't call someone a *******. *He said The Beatles were more popular than Jesus*.
> 
> Now here's a test of forgiveness: _The Bible is more popular than MT._


 
Perhaps at that time his statement was not untrue?


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## Cryozombie (Nov 23, 2008)

Gordon Nore said:


> But John Lennon didn't call someone a *******. He said The Beatles were more popular than Jesus.


 
Yes, but the point is no less valid, To the Vatican blasphemy is blasphemy regardless. 

YOU call it opinion, they call it Blasphemy.  Or we could look at this another way.

If it's OK for John Lennon to say it, because its his opinion...

It's ok for the Vatican to call it Blasphemy, because it's their opinion.  So they then have the perrogotive to forgive or not.  How's that?


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## Archangel M (Nov 23, 2008)

Name me another religion that bothers to apologize for ANYTHING.

Which is worse...the Church forgiving, or people being offended at the Church forgiving? It apparently would have been better for them to have said nothing.


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## Gordon Nore (Nov 23, 2008)

Archangel M said:


> Name me another religion that bothers to apologize for ANYTHING.



They didn't apologize; they forgave him. To my knowledge, he has never sought an apology from the church. He did later qualify his remarks and express regret over offense that the remarks caused.

I don't even know if Lennon was Catholic. 



> Which is worse...the Church forgiving, or people being offended at the Church forgiving? It apparently would have been better for them to have said nothing.



I'm not necessarily offended by this, I just don't get the point of it. I haven't been able to find the original article from the Vatican publication online, which might shed more light on this...


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## arnisador (Nov 23, 2008)

Archangel M said:


> Name me another religion that bothers to apologize for ANYTHING.



Nothing wrong with apologizing, but if they were less quick to judge they might have less for which to apologize. How often must the Buddhists apologize for some offensive thing they've said?


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## grydth (Nov 23, 2008)

Gordon Nore said:


> Now here's a test of forgiveness: _The Bible is more popular than MT._




You may expect forgiveness from Bob in November, 2050. Or, Bob may riot outside your home. Or........


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## grydth (Nov 23, 2008)

Archangel M said:


> Name me another religion that bothers to apologize for ANYTHING.
> 
> Which is worse...the Church forgiving, or people being offended at the Church forgiving? It apparently would have been better for them to have said nothing.



I see where you are trying to go, but your first sentence may also be taken as a convincing condemnation of all organized religion.

Yes, it would indeed have been better to say nothing.


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## JadecloudAlchemist (Nov 23, 2008)

> Experience has sown few seeds of doubt in him: not that his mind is closed, but it's closed round whatever he believes at the time. 'Christianity will go,' he said. 'It will vanish and shrink. I needn't argue about that; I'm right and I will be proved right. We're more popular than Jesus now; I don't know which will go first-rock 'n' roll or Christianity. Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. It's them twisting it that ruins it for me.' He is reading extensively about religion.


 
John seems to have been speaking that if corruption within Christianity keeps going on it will loose popularity which would make The Beatles at the top of their game in 1966 more popular than Jesus.

At this time period Rock and roll was very popular so it could be safe to say his comment was crude but in some ways correct.

I doubt John would really care if the Vatican forgave him or not he seems like the kinda of person that does not concern himself in that manner.


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## Gordon Nore (Nov 23, 2008)

JadecloudAlchemist said:


> John seems to have been speaking that if corruption within Christianity keeps going on it will loose popularity which would make The Beatles at the top of their game in 1966 more popular than Jesus.
> 
> At this time period Rock and roll was very popular so it could be safe to say his comment was crude but in some ways correct.
> 
> I doubt John would really care if the Vatican forgave him or not he seems like the kinda of person that does not concern himself in that manner.



Thanks for posting the full quote, JCA. I had forgotten it.


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## Ramirez (Nov 23, 2008)

JadecloudAlchemist said:


> I doubt John would really care if the Vatican forgave him or not he seems like the kinda of person that does not concern himself in that manner.



Yep, I don't think Lennon gave a rat's *** what anyone thought about him.


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## Rich Parsons (Nov 23, 2008)

MA-Caver said:


> 42 years later and they NOW forgive him? ...  Wonder how he would've taken it if he were still alive?. Probably would've written a song that just edged with sarcasm... remember "The Ballad Of John & Yoko" ?
> 
> 38 years later after breaking up... hard to "imagine" (but it's easy if you try) and their music just still rocks on. It wasn't *just* Lennon-McCartney either, Harrison and Starr/Starkey had individually & collectively made their significant contributions to the Beatles.
> 
> ...


 

It is Ok.

I still have not forgiven them for:

 helping the Nazi's.

 contributing to backwards development in science by having people killed.

 population control with the crusades.

Someday I hope to be a big enough person to forgive them. 

Maybe it will be a day when I need a favor from them or good press.


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## MBuzzy (Nov 23, 2008)

Archangel M said:


> Name me another religion that bothers to apologize for ANYTHING.
> 
> Which is worse...the Church forgiving, or people being offended at the Church forgiving? It apparently would have been better for them to have said nothing.



I am not offended that they forgave John Lennon.  I think that it was a great gesture.  Though way too late....

I am offended that they had the need to forgive him in the first place.  As others have said, if the religion that preaches peace, understanding, and forgiveness would have practiced a bit when the comment was made, this would have never been an issue.  At a time when half of the country was burning Beatles memorabilia, Churches simply jumped on the bandwagon instead of being the beacon of understanding and forgiveness that they claim to be - thereby making things worse.  Basically, they fueled the fire....and now, they're trying to say that it was ok all along?


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## shesulsa (Nov 24, 2008)

I'm sure good ol' John's made peace with the real man now.  The catholic church ... well ... it seems they have a ways to go.


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## zeeberex (Nov 24, 2008)

I have never been allowed to drive the Bubble Car, yet I can forgive.


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## MA-Caver (Nov 24, 2008)

Very devout Catholics call the Pope "God on Earth" ... I can forgive that.


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## Xue Sheng (Nov 24, 2008)

I can forgive the fact that the Vatican did not completely admit Galileo Galilei was right until 1992&#8230;. 350 years after his death

Actually I believe they began to admitted the Earth revolved around the sun in 1757 by removing some books form the Banned Books list&#8230;115 years after the death of Galileo

But what the heck, I'm feeling magnanimous so I can forgive that as well.


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## Kreth (Nov 24, 2008)

I'll forgive them for the Spanish Inquisition, and doing basically nothing while priests were molesting altar boys...
Ya know what, **** that, those priests *still* need to pay. Where's that rusty, dull knife?


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## zeeberex (Nov 24, 2008)

Kreth said:


> I'll forgive them for the Spanish Inquisition, and doing basically nothing while priests were molesting altar boys...
> Ya know what, **** that, those priests *still* need to pay. Where's that rusty, dull knife?




for the altar boys, no, not forgiven for that....


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## Xue Sheng (Nov 24, 2008)

Kreth said:


> I'll forgive them for the Spanish Inquisition, and doing basically nothing while priests were molesting altar boys...
> Ya know what, **** that, those priests *still* need to pay. Where's that rusty, dull knife?


 
Spanish Inquisition.... maybe

The rest...NO!! and in an effort not to go into a rant and take this WAAAAAY off post I will stop here.


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## Empty Hands (Nov 24, 2008)

Kreth said:


> I'll forgive them for the Spanish Inquisition...



It's not really their fault, no one expects the Spanish Inquisition.


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