# OK, I am a bit slow to figure stuff out sometimes but..



## Xue Sheng (May 27, 2009)

After almost 18 years of CMA I want to give those new to CMA a bit of advice that took me about 9 years to figure out (damn westerner stubbornness ). This will likely come as no shock to those that have been in CMA for awhile (or those smarter than me - and there are a lot of those). And this is very true if you train with a Sifu that was born, raised and trained in China or a Sifu who was trained by a Sifu that was born raised and trained in China.

If you&#8217;re Sifu corrects you just say "thank you", not "I know" and for God sakes don&#8217;t argue. In the long run you will learn a lot more that way. 

However after "thank you" and after class, discussion is ok... maybe :asian:

Or at least this has been my experience, your mileage may vary. :asian:


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## Tez3 (May 27, 2009)

Xue Sheng said:


> After almost 18 years of CMA I want to give those new to CMA a bit of advice that took me about 9 years to figure out (damn westerner stubbornness ). This will likely come as no shock to those that have been in CMA for awhile (or those smarter than me - and there are a lot of those). And this is very true if you train with a Sifu that was born, raised and trained in China or a Sifu who was trained by a Sifu that was born raised and trained in China.
> 
> *If youre Sifu corrects you just say "thank you", not "I know" and for God sakes dont argue*. In the long run you will learn a lot more that way.
> 
> ...


 

Ah that should be written in big bold letters over the door of every place of training not just CMA places! 
We and a lot of places I know, don't mind questions or discussion but arguing is just not on, it does our heads in and is liable to cause our chief instructor to demonstrate *exactly* how the technique is done and why it hurts so much.


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## blindsage (May 27, 2009)

Oh Xue *shaking my head*, what did you do?  I never really had a problem with this myself, but I've seen a few.  There's a guy in my current school that argues with my sifu whenever he feels he's doing something wrong and *sifu tells him he's* *doing fine*.  Seriously.  I've seen exchanges where he gets frustrated with himself, sifu says 'you did it right just relax', and he says 'No, I didn't, I went the wrong way', or 'No, are you kidding? My arm was way over here.'  Fortunately for him my sifu is extremely laid back and runs his classes very informally.  I would feel sorry for him in another school, and it annoys the hell out of me.


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## clfsean (May 27, 2009)

Xue... dude... why'd you let the cat out of the bag??? Now people will stick around more!!!!!!!!!!! ARGH!!!!!!!!


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## Tensei85 (May 28, 2009)

Hey Xue,
I agree 100%. this is one department that sometimes is lacking in a lot of Kwoon's.
Fortunately i grew up with those customs so it wasn't new for me, but I have seen people argue with their Sifu and I've also seen Sifu's let there todai know why they should'nt argue.
But I guess it sometimes comes down to cultural differences or maybe just lack of respect. Who knows? But its great to see so many people on here practicing proper wu da in whatever department!
On a side note its also proper to refer to one's Sifu in the 3rd person so as not to combine the words you and me in the same sentence structure another good sign of respect. Regardless of speaking to one's Sifu in Chinese or English or even Japanese for that much this is a good habit to pick up.

thanks again Xue Sheng,


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## Tensei85 (May 28, 2009)

On a side note,
Blindsage I see your location is Seattle.
Actually what style do you train? A friend of mine just moved to Seattle and has been looking for a place to train CMA. Have any recommendations? or do you train CMA?

thanks a lot,


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## Xue Sheng (May 28, 2009)

blindsage said:


> Oh Xue *shaking my head*, what did you do? I never really had a problem with this myself, but I've seen a few. There's a guy in my current school that argues with my Sifu whenever he feels he's doing something wrong and Sifu tells him he's doing fine. Seriously. I've seen exchanges where he gets frustrated with himself, Sifu says 'you did it right just relax', and he says 'No, I didn't, I went the wrong way', or 'No, are you kidding? My arm was way over here.' Fortunately for him my Sifu is extremely laid back and runs his classes very informally. I would feel sorry for him in another school, and it annoys the hell out of me.


 
I haven't done any of this for 9 years but there was a time when my responses tended to be "I know" and of course making excuses for why I didn't do it right. A good Sifu knows more about what is going on than you do when it comes to the forms and things related that you are doing and it took me a while to figure that out. And the other night while doing the long form at home I lost my balance, laughed about it, and remembered my Sifu&#8217;s corrections and that made me think about this and then in class recently I saw someone doing the same exact thing I use to but this time I was the observer and got to watch my Sifu&#8217;s reaction and I remember those so well. He smiles and walks away and that&#8217;s it for correction for awhile. 



clfsean said:


> Xue... dude... why'd you let the cat out of the bag??? Now people will stick around more!!!!!!!!!!! ARGH!!!!!!!!


 


No they won't, just look around any CMA class and pick out any one of the people that do this and tell this to them...you know they won't listen... particularly with most TCMA styles you know they won't stay anyways.. you just don't get deadly fast enough.... or....DAMN this training that hurts...it's not suppose to hurt (see Wing Chun, Sanda, Xingyiquan or Qinna apps ).... and then they will leave just the same.. ok maybe they will stay a little longer....sorry 



Tensei85 said:


> Hey Xue,
> I agree 100%. this is one department that sometimes is lacking in a lot of Kwoon's.
> Fortunately i grew up with those customs so it wasn't new for me, but I have seen people argue with their Sifu and I've also seen Sifu's let there todai know why they should'nt argue.
> But I guess it sometimes comes down to cultural differences or maybe just lack of respect. Who knows? But its great to see so many people on here practicing proper wu da in whatever department!
> ...


 
I have seen people argue with 2 of my martial arts teachers and my Taiji Sifu simply walks away and stopped correcting anything and those people generally leave. My Jujutsu sensei took it as a challenge and&#8230;well&#8230; I think you know what happened then. It happened 3 times with the same guy in jujutsu... the third was his last but that's another story. 

There is also a student that I have talked to my Sifu about who does the form absolutely horrible and has for a few years. I asked my Sifu why he does not correct him. His response &#8220;he won&#8217;t listen so I won&#8217;t waste my time&#8221;


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## Xue Sheng (May 28, 2009)

Tez3 said:


> Ah that should be written in big bold letters over the door of every place of training not just CMA places!
> We and a lot of places I know, don't mind questions or discussion but arguing is just not on, it does our heads in and is liable to cause our chief instructor to demonstrate *exactly* how the technique is done and why it hurts so much.


 
True, the post just before this I remembered my old Jujutsu class and my sensei tended to take such things (arguing) as challenges.


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## Tensei85 (May 28, 2009)

> I have seen people argue with 2 of my martial arts teachers and my Taiji Sifu simply walks away and stopped correcting anything and those people generally leave. My Jujutsu sensei took it as a challenge andwell I think you know what happened then. It happened 3 times with the same guy in jujutsu... the third was his last but that's another story.
> 
> There is also a student that I have talked to my Sifu about who does the form absolutely horrible and has for a few years. I asked my Sifu why he does not correct him. His response he wont listen so I wont waste my time




Its sad to see that, but hey what can you do? As a Sifu if they are going to waste your time, then you might as well spend it on someone worthwhile who has the proper etiquette.


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## East Winds (May 28, 2009)

Xue Sheng,

Yes, like you, it took me many years to lean that lesson. But when I had learned it, Boy, what a difference it made to my training!!!!

Very best wishes on yoiur journey


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## JadecloudAlchemist (May 28, 2009)

I have never tried to correct any of my teachers or say I know or any ill manner thing its bad enough I am half paying attention(maybe I have ADD)and asking stupid questions(slow learner) 

I do show my graditude with the effort I put in and when I am corrected I am usually smiling or saying "Ah that feels much better/natural or "I see what you mean" and usually I am greeted with a smile or a laugh or something really painful.  I think because I do private lessons it is a little more relaxed and a more Father Son realtionship so there is a little more slack in my stupidity which I hope is forgivable.


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## Xue Sheng (May 28, 2009)

JadecloudAlchemist said:


> I have never tried to correct any of my teachers or say I know or any ill manner thing its bad enough I am half paying attention(maybe I have ADD)and asking stupid questions(slow learner)
> 
> I do show my graditude with the effort I put in and when I am corrected I am usually smiling or saying "Ah that feels much better/natural or "I see what you mean" and usually I am greeted with a smile or a laugh or something really painful. I think because I do private lessons it is a little more relaxed and a more Father Son realtionship so there is a little more slack in my stupidity which I hope is forgivable.


 
Gotten a smile..... check
Been laughed at...check
learned via pain... double check... but generally this is where I have always responded with "That is so cool" of course I am generally picking myself up off the floor 

And I am referring to the second 9 years


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## blindsage (May 28, 2009)

Tensei85 said:


> On a side note,
> Blindsage I see your location is Seattle.
> Actually what style do you train? A friend of mine just moved to Seattle and has been looking for a place to train CMA. Have any recommendations? or do you train CMA?
> 
> thanks a lot,


I train Bagua right now.  My sifu also teaches Yang and Chen taiji, Qigong, some Aikido/Aikijujitsu, and if we're lucky, an occasional Xingyi workshop.  Tell your friend to check out my sifu's website www.wuji.com, it has extensive information about the school, styles, my sifu, his teachers, and classes.  If he's looking for something else CMA wise I could recommend a phenomenal Wing Chun sifu, some decent Choy Lay Fut, and maybe point him in the direction of a couple other things....oh, and tell him what's easy to find, but best to avoid.


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## Tensei85 (May 28, 2009)

Awesome! Thanks a lot Blindsage, its much appreciated ill send him the link & tell him to check it out. He has a background in Wing Chun a little Bagua (Dragon style) but has a huge interest in Xingyi. So it sounds like he would fit in pretty well as far as interest wise.


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## ggg214 (May 30, 2009)

this topic is really helpful for someone who wants to learn some real things from their teacher.
many people here thinks it's hard to find a teacher who really wants to teach them. they never consider there is any thing wrong in their reaction when meeting with their teachers.


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## clfsean (May 30, 2009)

blindsage said:


> ... some decent Choy Lay Fut...



*oiy my head*

Trust me... the CLF in Seattle is a smidge better than "decent". That's like saying... "Oh yeah, there's some good Chinese restaurants in San Fran... "...


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## Rabu (May 30, 2009)

Sounds about right to me.  

If you went to them to learn, the least you can do is let them teach you.

Best regards,

Rob


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## Xue Sheng (May 31, 2009)

clfsean said:


> *oiy my head*
> "Oh yeah, there's some good Chinese restaurants in San Fran... "...


 
There ARE!!!!  NAH!!!! You're just makin this up 

Actually a friend of mine, who is from Guangzhou, recently retired and moved to San Francisco. He said it was the closest he could get to China (Southern) and not be in China.


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## Xue Sheng (May 31, 2009)

Rabu said:


> Sounds about right to me.
> 
> If you went to them to learn, the least you can do is let them teach you.
> 
> ...


 
That is it exactly. One of the hardest things I believe in TCMA is excepting the fact that your sifu (if he knows his stuff) knows more about what you are doing and know better what you are ready to learn that you do. At least that was a bit of a leap for me. 

But as soon as I got there...well...then things got real hard....he began correcting me (a lot) and although it was damn cool...it is harder than just going through the motions believing you are right. But it is then you start actually learning the style.


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## Tensei85 (May 31, 2009)

Xue Sheng said:


> That is it exactly. One of the hardest things I believe in TCMA is excepting the fact that your sifu (if he knows his stuff) knows more about what you are doing and know better what you are ready to learn that you do. At least that was a bit of a leap for me.
> 
> But as soon as I got there...well...then things got real hard....he began correcting me (a lot) and although it was damn cool...it is harder than just going through the motions believing you are right. But it is then you start actually learning the style.




Man, I know exactly what your talking about. My Sifu began to understand that I was dedicated so every time I came to class I was being corrected even if I was off by an inch for a technique or my generation of "jing" was a little well "not there" 

But I'm thankful for it even though at times its embarrassing, you think your the Sh**
and then your Sifu gives you a reality check and shows you exactly what your lacking lol. 

But in the long run its more than worth it, and by your Sifu giving you corrections you realize you have the right Sifu that is worthwhile to learn from. 

However make sure you keep an open mind, your Sifu may be awesome and the 10th level of godhood but he's capable of mistakes. So most important try what you learn experiment with it, see if it works and then see if it doesn't. In controlled environments most things will work, but sometimes its good to get a reality check!

all the best,


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## Xue Sheng (May 31, 2009)

Tensei85 said:


> Man, I know exactly what your talking about. My Sifu began to understand that I was dedicated so every time I came to class I was being corrected even if I was off by an inch for a technique or my generation of "jing" was a little well "not there"
> 
> But I'm thankful for it even though at times its embarrassing, you think your the Sh**
> and then your Sifu gives you a reality check and shows you exactly what your lacking lol.
> ...


 
Doing push hangs with my sifu one time I gained the advantage... I was so amazed I kind of hesitated in one of those "wow" moments.... to which he responded, in a very relaxed manor, with high pat and I fell down   It was cool and it was also proof, at least to me that invest in loss works.


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## Tensei85 (May 31, 2009)

Xue Sheng said:


> Doing push hangs with my sifu one time I gained the advantage... I was so amazed I kind of hesitated in one of those "wow" moments.... to which he responded, in a very relaxed manor, with high pat and I fell down   It was cool and it was also proof, at least to me that invest in loss works.




I agree with that,

In fact I would say due to the fact you gained an advantage no matter how small or for what time period that it goes to show your Sifu is transmitting knowledge and skills properly. (of course experience is always a factor) However don't get me wrong there are other factors involved as well, for instance a Students ability to retain or how fast they can catch on to what is being taught all plays a part as well. 

On a side note I've been on the receiving end of techniques, its awesome til you take a shower and see a perfect palm print on your chest! But its great anyways, come back the next day and start over again.


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## Tensei85 (May 31, 2009)

Lol,
But you don't need me telling you whats authentic or not...
Especially Neigong you know your stuff. (not to sound like I was being condescending in my last post) Just thought I would explain my self in further detail so as not to give the wrong idea.


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## blindsage (Jun 1, 2009)

clfsean said:


> *oiy my head*
> 
> Trust me... the CLF in Seattle is a smidge better than "decent". That's like saying... "Oh yeah, there's some good Chinese restaurants in San Fran... "...


LOL!  That may be true.  I don't know enough about CLF, honestly, to tell 'decent' from 'real darn good'.  I just know there is at least one very well known teacher here, but I also know that doesn't necessarily equal quality.  We have a very well known Hun-Gar sifu here and though I'm no expert, I would not take classes at his school.  But if I was into CLF I would go to the first sifu.


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## clfsean (Jun 1, 2009)

blindsage said:


> LOL!  That may be true.  I don't know enough about CLF, honestly, to tell 'decent' from 'real darn good'.  I just know there is at least one very well known teacher here, but I also know that doesn't necessarily equal quality.  We have a very well known Hun-Gar sifu here and though I'm no expert, I would not take classes at his school.  But if I was into CLF I would go to the first sifu.



It's cool... you probably know the sifu I'm talking about & he's A#1 good. Has a history of fighting & winning... in & out of the ring.


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