# Long Form 4



## jaybacca72 (Apr 26, 2002)

yeah what Mr.C said hehe great post dennis.
later
jay


----------



## jaybacca72 (Apr 26, 2002)

i figuered out who you are ! are you still training you know who's curriculum? i am currently teaching dave d ,jeff f and steve mc f how's that for irony? give me an email
jaybacca72@hotmail.com
later
jay


----------



## Robbo (Apr 25, 2002)

Although I train in an offshoot of EPAK where we don't do the AK curriculum we are close enough to the AK system to hear a few comments. The one that stuck out in my head was that Long 4 was the workhorse of Kenpo. I seem to recall that Long 5 deals with takedowns and Long 6 with weapons. So to take a stab at it I would think that Long 4 deals with all the empty hand aspects of the art. 

Now as I said I'm not familiar with these forms so I'm sure someone else can add more insight and possibly correct me.

Oh I shamelessy stole this from kenponet.com,

Short 1 - Retreating with a Front Hand Block 
Long 1 - Retreating with a Front Hand Block and a Rear Hand Counter 
Short 2 - Advancing with front hand block and front and rear hand counters, using multiple power principles 
Long 2 - Multiple attacks from a stance, crossovers, and elbow strikes 
The Basic Forms of Kenpo 
Short 3 - Basic Defenses against grabs, chokes, and holds 
Long 3 - Further defenses against grabs, chokes, and holds 
Long 4 - Defenses against punches and kicks 
Circular Hand Motions in Long 4 
Long 5 - Takedown techniques 
Long 6 - Weapons defenses against knives, clubs, and pistols 
Long 7 - Techniques with Kenpo sticks 
Two-Man Set - The Rules And Principles Of Kenpo In Combat


----------



## Robbo (Apr 25, 2002)

Also dug this up. 

http://www.kenpohands.com/long4.htm

Rob


----------



## AvPKenpo (Apr 30, 2002)

GD7,

What excatcly do you mean by the term Needling?

Michael


----------



## AvPKenpo (May 1, 2002)

Okay, 
I believe I got it.

Thanks, 

Michael


----------



## Goldendragon7 (Apr 25, 2002)

TEACHES:

 1. The use of the DOUBLE FACTOR against a 
    two-punch combination, one factor for each 
    punch.
 2. The use of quarter beat timing when 
    calculating the use of Borrowed Force.
 3. The diagonal fanning of parries to cancel both 
    Height and Width Zones.
 4. The use of a front crossover to add power to a 
    punch off the rear hand.
 5. Threading.
 6. How to utilize a Diversified Angle of Attack 
    from an Obscure Zone.
 7. The benefits of a Grafted Principle. 
 8. Familiarizes you with the concept of 
    Progressive Directional Harmony.
 9. An introduction to working on the inside of 
    two punches. 
10. How to employ various depths of action within 
    the Dimensional Stages of Action when using 
    reverse motion.
11. Teaches you instinctive responses to varying 
    depth factors related to the Dimensional 
    Stages of Action. 
12. How to take dual action from two Points of 
    Origin, whereby both block and strike occur 
    simultaneously.
13. How to control your opponent's Height and 
    Width Zones while following a figure 8 path of 
    action.
14. The continuous flow of circular moves to 
    counter your opponent.
15. To have your natural weapons travel from Point 
    of Origin in a looping overhead manner, while 
    employing the principle of guidelining to 
    create deceptive, powerful, and accurate 
    strikes.
16. Teaches you how to first intercept a kick and 
    then redirect it through a captured means of 
    parrying.
17. The use of Object Obscurity, when properly 
    timed with your footwork to provide multiple 
    effects.
18. How to function underneath a punch while 
    interacting and interchanging offensive and 
    defensive maneuvers within the identical 
    framework of your circular movements.
19. When the dimension of depth is at a standstill 
    the dimension of width generated from a 
    rotating twist stance can be duplicated to
    obtain the desired force. 
20. The offensive use of stance changes that 
    amplifies the effectiveness of your aggressive 
    action.
21. The use of reverse and returning motion where 
    Completed Paths of Travel accentuate the value 
    of following through with your strikes.
22. That not all combat commences when you find 
    yourself in a suitable position. 
23. You learn how reverse motion can residually 
    provide defensive and
    offensive answers to combination strikes.
24. You learn that the use of a twist stance is 
    twofold, (1) while retreating to help create 
    distance, and (2) when unwinding from your 
    twist stance to gain greater power rotational) 
    when applying your second defense.
25. How to employ your furthest leg to your 
    opponent's closest leg, and your closest leg 
    to his furthest leg when executing double
    kicks to the flank (side chicken kick).
26. Simultaneous moves: like as well as opposite 
    sides.
27. Needling.
28. The use of the DOUBLE FACTOR against a 
    combination kick-punch attack, one factor for 
    each attack.
29. Gaseous Motion against multiple attackers from 
    multiple directions.
30. A detailed study of the use of opposites and 
    reverses.
31. The use of a sweeping action to divert and 
    check.
32. Altered timing for specific needs. Rhythmatic 
    changes can contribute to the power of your 
    action.
33. The flow of action can continually stem from 
    the last flow of action.
34. Angle Matching
35. Rhythmatic changes of timing and breathing to 
    activate and enhance internal energy that 
    proportionally increases power.
36. Isolated moves that when taken out of context 
    can be gainfully employed.
37. Angular maneuvers employing twist stances.
38. Transitional buckles that weaken an opponent's 
    base more than once. The use of a follow up 
    buckle that destroys an already weakened base.
39. Cradling as a means of employing dual motion 
    from two Points of Origin.
40. The use of a rotating twist stance to take you 
    into the Gaseous State of Motion in multiple 
    directions while remaining in place.
41. How to advance and retreat in a Zig-Zag 
    Pattern.
42. Various methods of executing the fingers so 
    that if one method should fail the other 
    methods may be instantly called upon as
    back-ups.
43. The use of Mid-Point Balance.
44. The themes of the self-defense techniques 
    contained in the form.
45. The principles contained in each of the 
    self-defense techniques.
46. To convert techniques from the Liquid State of 
    Motion to the Gaseous State of Motion.


NOTES ON LONG FORM #4

1. The use of corresponding angles will greatly enhance the aesthetics and effectiveness of your movements.

2. Learn to use cat stances and forward bows as "holding points" in the form. These "poses" allow you moments to harness the force, and gather your mental energy.

3. The use of rhythmatic breathing throughout this form will allow for those moments where you wish to use explosive breathing.

4. Study moments in the form where you can lock out movements.

5. Look for other moments where you can kiai in the form. 

6. Be in shape. Improve your muscle response, especially your endurance.

7. Accentuate the strength in your stances and the depth of your foot maneuvers.

:asian:


----------



## Goldendragon7 (Apr 26, 2002)

:asian:


----------



## Goldendragon7 (Apr 29, 2002)

That's not a complete list either!!:rofl: 

:asian:


----------



## Goldendragon7 (Apr 30, 2002)

> _Originally posted by tonbo _
> 
> *So, GoldenDragon......quick question:  Can I petition you to get a *complete* list of what is in Long 4?
> 
> *



Sure, but you'd have to be a direct student or your school a member of the IKKO.  LOL, I share a good deal with the "net" but I must keep some for my organization and direct students.

I'm sure you can understand my position.

:asian:


----------



## Goldendragon7 (Apr 30, 2002)

> _Originally posted by AvPKenpo _
> 
> *GD7,
> 
> ...



A method of contouring.

:asian:


----------



## Goldendragon7 (May 3, 2002)

> _Originally posted by AvPKenpo _
> 
> *Okay, I believe I got it.Thanks,
> 
> Michael *



Ok, here's a little better definition.

Needling - A method of contouring that requies 2 natural weapons simultaneously TRACK their way to the target.

:asian:


----------



## tonbo (Apr 29, 2002)

Ya know, after seeing such in depth discussions of forms (see the kenponet reference above and GoldenDragon's list), it reminds me just how *little* I really know about this stuff.

And my instructor wonders why I kept telling him I didn't feel like I was ready for my Black yet.....:rofl: 

Ever see "Joe vs. the volcano"??  "I know he can *get* the job, but can he *do* the job?"  Hehe.  Yeah.  Something like that.

Back to practice, back to study, back to analyzing.  Never ends, does it?  But, that is a good thing.  A *very* good thing.

Peace--


----------



## tonbo (Apr 29, 2002)

Yeah, let's see......out of that list of 46 items (not a complete list?    hehe...of *course* not!!) I know/knew.....uh....probably about....uh....like......5?  I knew some of the concepts, but obviously, I knew a *LOT* less than I thought I did.

However, I LOVE it when the lightbulb appears over my head, and I have that rushing feeling of "OHHHHH!!!"  I had that a couple of times, reading through that list.

Now, I just have to work on some of those items, and actually put them into practice.  Eeesh.  Okay, I will argue with anyone on that topic about "nothing more to learn when you get your Black Belt".  

hehe.....I'd just show them that list and watch their eyes bug out....:rofl: 

Oh, yeah....and I'd have to restrain myself from smacking them if they said, "Oh, that....yeah, I know all that."  :shrug: 

Sure, buddy.  So *show* me, already....hehe.....

Peace--


----------



## tonbo (Apr 30, 2002)

So, GoldenDragon......quick question:  Can I petition you to get a *complete* list of what is in Long 4?

I have had a love/hate relationship with long 4 since I learned it.  I love how it works, and how it flows, love what it teaches, but I have NEVER felt like I can do it right, and that bugs me.  I have now set a goal that I will someday OWN long 4, but it is going to be a long road.  Looking at the whole, I think the reason I don't like it as much is that I don't understand it fully......if I can gain more insights, then I think I will really get to like this form.

Would you be willing to help me out on this one?  If the list is too long to post here, well......you have my email...

My thanks, sir.  You have given me *plenty* to think about in my new "quest" already....

:asian: 

Peace--


----------



## tonbo (Apr 30, 2002)

Yes, GoldenDragon, I understand fully, and respect it as well.

Still, thanks for pointing out the door.  Now, I just have to open it up myself (for the time being)........

If I can get out that way sometime, I will look you up.   Likelihood is, at the present, kinda slim, but fate's been known to be a surprise from time to time.

Thanks again!!

:asian: 

Peace--


----------



## jeffkyle (Apr 25, 2002)

I had heard that Mr. Parker once said something like "Any one that knows ALL about Long Form 4, everything about what is IN it, would deserve a black belt", and he would promote them any day.  I am sure it involves more than just the moves.  But i curious as to what he meant.   
Any Suggestions????


----------



## jeffkyle (Apr 26, 2002)

Thank you Mr C.  Very Helpful!


----------



## jeffkyle (Apr 26, 2002)

I sure will!


----------



## kenpokid (Apr 29, 2002)

I never knew there was that much in long four i knew about all the angles but golden dragon you have shown me things i never knew.

Well I shall keep reading and finding more out about the forms.


----------

