# Nunchaku Set 3



## Ceicei (Sep 12, 2003)

What memory tips do you use for Nunchaku Set 3? The Nunchaku Sets 1 & 2 basically follow Lines 1 & 2, but NS3 differs from L3.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

- Ceicei


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## jfarnsworth (Sep 12, 2003)

Well I don't know Nunchaku Set 1, but I certainly didn't know that there were 3.


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## Bill Lear (Sep 15, 2003)

> *Originally posted by Ceicei *
> 
> _What memory tips do you use for Nunchaku Set 3? The Nunchaku Sets 1 & 2 basically follow Lines 1 & 2, but NS3 differs from L3.
> 
> Any suggestions would be appreciated._



I have never heard of Nunchaku Sets Two and Three. Are you studying / practicing Ed Parker's American Kenpo as outlined in the Infinite Insights books, or are you studying a hybrid system?


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## MisterMike (Sep 15, 2003)

I would find out just who is teaching/made up the Nunchaku set and ask them.

I don't believe Mr. Parker ever made a Nunchaku Set. He may have been shown it by someone and gave it a nod, but most likely it just came out of the air and someone is trying to sell you on it.

:soapbox: 

I have found that a lot of schools teach many different things to make up for the fact that they haven't mastered one.

I hope you find what you are looking for and share it back. Personally I would like to see a Nunchaku set. I think it is a beautiful weapon.


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## Bill Lear (Sep 15, 2003)

> *Originally posted by MisterMike *
> 
> _I don't believe Mr. Parker ever made a Nunchaku Set._



According to everyone I know there is an actual Nunchaku Set One.

I have asked many about this...

Dennis Conatser, Bryan Hawkins, Tommy Chavies, Wes Idol, Frank Trejo, to name a few... They all seem to agree that there is indeed a Nunchaku Set One.

It is also important for me to mention that while I do not know the enntire set myself, I have been exposed to it.


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## Ceicei (Sep 15, 2003)

We do follow Mr. Ed Parker's system (techniques, lines, and forms), but there are some additional techniques to round out our training.  These include weapons and ground techniques (the latter I had mentioned in a different thread). 

My instructor apparently does believe in a progressive approach and wants to give us more choices in being able to defend ourselves.

I can post the first nunchaku set if you are interested.

Please don't think that just because we aren't as "traditional" with our training that it invalidates Mr. Ed Parker's teachings or intent.   

When Mr. Parker taught at Provo, Utah, he had emphasized to his students they needed to be flexible enough to adapt and change. Sometimes techniques, by necessity, may be tweaked because of situations when they are used and the sizes of the attacker/defender.  Mr. Parker, while developing Kenpo, willingly changed techniques when his students as police officers reported to him what worked and what didn't.

- Ceicei


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## Nightingale (Sep 15, 2003)

I haven't heard of set 2.... could you post it?


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## Bill Lear (Sep 15, 2003)

> *Originally posted by Ceicei *
> 
> _Please don't think that just because we aren't as "traditional" with our training that it invalidates Mr. Ed Parker's teachings or intent._



I don't think there is anything invalid about experimenting with different things... But, if your instructor has changed the curriculum then I would call it your instructor's Kenpo System and not Ed Parker's. The name itself doesn't make what you're doing any more or less valid, unless there is a misrepresentation of the truth involved. I only think that there does need to be a distinction between what Mr. Parker did and what others do.


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## Ceicei (Sep 15, 2003)

So are you suggesting that even when the base remain the same and just the mere addition of a few more techniques taught in the same format would dramatically alter the kenpo style?

I don't think kenpo was meant to be taught for the sake of tradition alone.
- Ceicei


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## Nightingale (Sep 15, 2003)

as long as the complete kenpo system is there, seems to me that they're doing Parker kenpo.  She made it clear that the added portions were, in fact, not part of the original Parker system, so it seems like they're doing EPAK plus some other stuff, not other stuff INSTEAD of EPAK.


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## Bill Lear (Sep 15, 2003)

> *Originally posted by Nightingale *
> 
> _as long as the complete kenpo system is there, seems to me that they're doing Parker kenpo.  She made it clear that the added portions were, in fact, not part of the original Parker system, so it seems like they're doing EPAK plus some other stuff, not other stuff INSTEAD of EPAK. _



I know what was said thanks.


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## Bill Lear (Sep 15, 2003)

> *Originally posted by Ceicei *
> 
> _So are you suggesting that even when the base remain the same and just the mere addition of a few more techniques taight in the same format would dramatically alter the kenpo style?_



I would say that additional information wouldn't hurt... If the base material is changed or deleted, then I would reconsider calling it Ed Parker's Kenpo. That's all. :asian:


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## dcence (Sep 15, 2003)

You don't know anything until you learn Nunchaku Set #3.  Wait until you get to Nunchaku Set #12.  Man, that  is some great stuff.

Seriously, the numchuks -- what a practical weapon.  Right up there with the sai and the three section staff.  Most people don't even practice hitting anything with it, doing their best Bruce Lee impersonation, only to learn that when they do try hitting something with it, it actually rebounds.  Surprise, surprise.


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## Nightingale (Sep 15, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Bill Lear _
> *I know what was said thanks. *



I was responding to Ceici's question of:



> [would] just the mere addition of a few more techniques taught in the same format would dramatically alter the kenpo style?



my answer to her question was basically "with what she is doing, in my opinion, no."

I wasn't talking to you.


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## Ceicei (Sep 15, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Nightingale _
> *as long as the complete kenpo system is there, seems to me that they're doing Parker kenpo.  She made it clear that the added portions were, in fact, not part of the original Parker system, so it seems like they're doing EPAK plus some other stuff, not other stuff INSTEAD of EPAK. *



Thank you, Nightingale.  Your words expressed better what I was trying to say.

- Ceicei

P.S.  I will post the nunchuk sets 1 & 2 soon, probably by tomorrow.


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## Ceicei (Sep 15, 2003)

> _Originally posted by dcence _
> *You don't know anything until you learn Nunchaku Set #3.  Wait until you get to Nunchaku Set #12.  Man, that  is some great stuff.
> 
> Seriously, the numchuks -- what a practical weapon.  Right up there with the sai and the three section staff.  Most people don't even practice hitting anything with it, doing their best Bruce Lee impersonation, only to learn that when they do try hitting something with it, it actually rebounds.  Surprise, surprise. *



You're right, the chucks do re-bound, and can hurt if not aware of that point.  That's why its important to follow through with the strikes completely instead of stopping at the point of contact (when rebounding happens) as many students tend to do.  

To get the feel how nunchuks handle, we practice strikes on free-standing torso bags or dummies. 

- Ceicei


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## Bill Lear (Sep 15, 2003)

> *Originally posted by Ceicei *
> 
> _You're right, the chucks do re-bound, and can hurt if not aware of that point.  That's why its important to follow through with the strikes completely instead of stopping at the point of contact (when rebounding happens) as many students tend to do.
> 
> To get the feel how nunchuks handle, we practice strikes on free-standing torso bags or dummies._



You are correct in you analyzation of how the Nunchaku work when flailing, but snapping them is also an effective way of striking without getting hit by a rebound.

Just a thought. :asian:


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## MisterMike (Sep 16, 2003)

Since the Nunchaku Set 1 "exists," does anyone know who created it. I know a lot of the sets may not have been created by Mr. Parker, but were adopted and printed in the Infinite Insight series and Web of Knowledge. (Staff Set)

Also, why would Mr. Parker have included any weapons in his system? Kenpo is an open hand art. An American one at that, so why would he have created anything to work with Oriental weapons?

I practiced the original system and we didn't get into much of the Set "2's" or weapons sets. (I guess this reflects on my conservative nature as well  ). But if Mr. Parker had anything to do with their creation, I'd be interested to see them. Otherwise I'm content on what I've learned so far.

Thanks,


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## Nightingale (Sep 16, 2003)

Mr Parker also included a staff set (or two??) and I believe a knife set, but I'm not sure about that last one.


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## dcence (Sep 16, 2003)

You should see my Briefcase Set #1.  It really helped on the way through downtown Vegas on the way to courthouse.  The part where you hit the latch and the briefcase springs open and hits the guy in the head is a work of art.

Seriously, teach me to defend myself with anything I might find in my environment.  A stick of any length (staff to pencil), a pocket knife, a briefcase, boombox, belt, shoe, etc.  Don't burden me with knowledge of a weapon I am going to get arrested for just carrying, and will probably will never have in my environment anyway.

Yes, Kenpo is an empty hand art, but those empty hands are good for grabbing something and using it.


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## Bill Lear (Sep 16, 2003)

> *Originally posted by dcence *
> 
> _Yes, Kenpo is an empty hand art, but those empty hands are good for grabbing something and using it. _



 I couldn't agree with you more.


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## MA-Caver (Sep 16, 2003)

dcence wrote: You should see my Briefcase Set #1. It really helped on the way through downtown Vegas on the way to courthouse. The part where you hit the latch and the briefcase springs open and hits the guy in the head is a work of art.

Seriously, teach me to defend myself with anything I might find in my environment. A stick of any length (staff to pencil), a pocket knife, a briefcase, boombox, belt, shoe, etc. Don't burden me with knowledge of a weapon I am going to get arrested for just carrying, and will probably will never have in my environment anyway.

Yes, Kenpo is an empty hand art, but those empty hands are good for grabbing something and using it.
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Indeed. My oldest brother taught me when I was young and life re-affirmed the truth that "there is no such thing as a fair fight".  So grabbing a bottle, or broken piece of two-by-four off the ground to even the odds or to help come out ahead is gonna work. I've been enough street fights and lost more than I've won but I made durn shure that my opponent was hurting at least when they walked away. In the fights I lost/won in highschool I was never accousted by the same person twice.  
On one such student I used my hard flute case upside his head when he had me pinned to the wall after band practice.

Nunchckus are a good weapon, as are many others, provided anyone has the chance to use them.  But they're not practical to carry around and as pointed out you can go to jail.  But, IMHO they (Nunchakus) are more of teaching the user eye-hand-mind coordination than anything else.  Being able to grab something out of the corner of your eye quickly and having your hands at the right place at the right time.  The more complicated the set the better your chances are at catching/blocking a fast punch/kick from your opponent...in the real life situtation. 

Learning to use whatever is at your disposal isn't bad MA on the streets, it's effective. Learning various types of formal weapons in the DOJO helps adapts whats at hand on the street.  Being a survivor of such environs I see no problem with it. Attackers/muggers/gangs aren't gonna be as formal and choosy. Why should you? 

MA weaponry decades and centuries ago had practical real life (fighting) applications, these days they're more for show than anything else. But they are an effective teaching tool as a student can learn more about themselves and their abilities by learning and mastering those weapons...in the DOJO. 

:asian:


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## MisterMike (Sep 17, 2003)

I have to agree with the main direction of this thread. But I would be a hypocrite to say they are antiquated and of no use. I practice in the art of Kobu-Jutsu and while 90% of these weapons are not even remembered by most today, I just enjoy learning about the past.

Many methods can be directly transferred to a broom handle (or one broken in half ) and can be put to use rather effectively.


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## Ceicei (Sep 17, 2003)

Ok, here is the Set #1.  I will post the Set #2 shortly.  Later this week, I will post the #3 once I have learned it well enough.  

Notes clarifications:  R = right, L = Left, N = nunchaku, LNB = left neutral bow, DS = drag step, LPS = left pivot stance, R pivot figure 8 = R hand moves nunchaku in figure 8 while R foot is in pivot position, RH = roundhouse, 1/2 8 = nunchaku in circular move on side.   

********************
*Nunchaku Set #1*

Ready position, N behind R arm, N under R arm, snap head to L as you slide L foot back slightly to to LNB, DS fwd to LNB with L vertical snap punch to nose, LPS with R pivot figure 8, R step through RH kick to head, plant fwd to RNB, look, step and cover toward 3:00 with a LNB.

DS fwd to LNB with L vert snap punch to nose, LPS with R pivot figure 8, R step through RH kick to head, plant forward to RNB.

DS fwd to RNB with R 1/2 8 RPS with L snap punch to solar plexus, L guard up, L step through RH kick to head, plant forward to LNB, look, step and cover toward 9:00 with a RNB.

DS forward to RNB with R 1/2 8 RPS with L snap punch to solar plexus, L guard up, L step through RH kick to head,  plant forward to LNB, look R, L foot slides to horse, N behind R arm, ready stance.

********************
- Ceicei


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## Michael Billings (Sep 17, 2003)

The only one I learned was the EPAK one for 2nd Black.  It was certainly much, much longer and more involved than this.  

This looks like a good drill for the beginning student to start getting used to the sticks.  I am relatively certain it is not an original part of the curriculum, but something created and inserted to help students on their way.

Oss,
-MB


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## Ceicei (Sep 17, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Michael Billings _
> *The only one I learned was the EPAK one for 2nd Black.  It was certainly much, much longer and more involved than this.
> 
> This looks like a good drill for the beginning student to start getting used to the sticks.  I am relatively certain it is not an original part of the curriculum, but something created and inserted to help students on their way.
> ...



It could be that the lesser nunchaku sets we have would train us and lead up to the one you are thinking about, the 2nd black nunchaku set.  

Our core instruction is supposed to be EPAK, but I am aware that dojo I train in do have some additional techniques (such as ground-fighting) to expand our knowledge/skills and make it into a good self-defense training.  

****
I do wonder, however, how much variation there are among the Kenpo schools that profess to use/teach Parker's system?  

There are other (Parker) Kenpo schools I have seen whose training schedule may have a few technique difference (ie. some techniques put under one belt color and in another school, these same techniques placed under a different color).  Even a scan on the internet of some Kenpo schools that put their techniques online may place them in different color categories.   I have not found a kenpo school to be identical to another (unless they branched off from each other [parent dojo] or work together extensively).  The only similarity being that they all have the Ed Parker techniques, just not necessarily in the same order.  

Even then, I have noted there are some minor variations within the same technique (maybe an additional move here or there or the change of one strike (ie. a palm instead of a punch). 

Noting some earlier objections in this thread about adhering to the tradition of a martial arts system, specifically EPAK:  Why would it matter how Kenpo is taught if in the end, the students have learned all the necessary techniques needed to achieve 1st dan?  Why would it matter if there are additional techniques on top of the core techniques--this shouldn't make the student be any less than a kenpoist? 

- Ceicei


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## Bill Lear (Sep 17, 2003)

> *Originally posted by Ceicei *
> 
> _Why would it matter if there are additional techniques on top of the core techniques--this shouldn't make the student be any less than a kenpoist? _



I don't think that adding additional information makes a student any less of a Kenpoist at all... I do, however, think deleting something is a different story all together.


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## Ceicei (Sep 17, 2003)

Tonight, I will put on Nunchaku Set #2 for your perusal.

- Ceicei


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## Ceicei (Sep 17, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Bill Lear _
> *I don't think that adding additional information makes a student any less of a Kenpoist at all... I do, however, think deleting something is a different story all together. *



No argument with you there.  To delete or replace with something different would alter the system.

- Ceicei


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## Ceicei (Sep 17, 2003)

Nunchaku Set # 2

Ready position, N behind R arm, under R arm, snap your head to left (facing 9:00), hopping L front kick, L back fist, RPS, R cross whip, R hatchet kick, R 1/2 8, R lift, L lift, L RH kick, L full 8, R lift, ready, butterfly kick, look to 3:00, step and cover.

R shoulder whip, R hopping front kick, R cross strike, R lift, L pivot punch, L hatchet kic, RPS, R 1/2 8, R lift, L lift, R RH kick, LPS, L full 8, L lift, ready, butterfly kick.

L N behind arm, N under arm, R hopping front kick, R back fist, LPS, L cross whip, L hatchet kick, L 1/2 8, L lift, R lift, R RH kick, R full 8, R lift, ready, butterfly kick, look to 9:00, step and cover.

L shoulder whip, L hopping front kick, L cross strike, R pivot punch, R hatchet kick, LPS, L 1/2 8, L lift, R lift, L RH kick, RPS, R full 8, R lift, ready, butterfly kick, N behind R arm, ready position.

- Ceicei


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## Ceicei (Oct 3, 2003)

Nunchaku Set #3


Ready stance holding nunchaku in front, step forward to 12:00 in a LNB with R shoulder whip, LPS R cross strike, rotate clockwise as you drop to a R 45 degree cat to 6:00, R behind the arm, step through forward to LPS R 1/2 8, cover to 12:00 in RNB R inverted 8, catch behind the R arm, lunge toward 9:00 to LPS R figure 8, R cross strike, R lift, L lift, rotate clockwise to $ cat facing 3:00, step out to RPS with L cross strike, step through forward to LNB L 1/2 8, L lift, R lift, move L foot clockwise to horse stance facing 6:00, R figure 8, R cross strike, R 1/2 8, R lift, L lift, L foot steps forward to 6:00 as you cover clockwise to 12:00 to RPS L figure 8, L lift, R lift, as you step through forward to LPS R figure 8, step through forward to RNB R cross strike, R lift, L lift as you step through forward to LNB L figure 8, L cross strike, L lift, R lift, R cross strike, R pass behind the back, L pass around the neck, R behind the arm, L lifting pass front, ready  as R foot slides forward to horse stance.

- Ceicei


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