# A need for accreditied rank



## Beth Parker (Sep 11, 2003)

I sure wish the rank system of martial arts was like the degree systems of universities. It would make it alot easier to tell whos really what they claim. If the university is acrredited then the educational stadands are pretty close. In the martial arts it seems there are 1000's of people who are self proclaimed ,self promoted, and memebers of good old boy clubs like hall of fames and other. that swap rank and titles. Im glad real professors at college dont do that.  Im only a mom with kids interested in martial arts so im no authority but what im seeing is the rank system that was began for placement of judoka competitors by Kano has become meaningless do to its abuse by western egotists. I quess im craving standardized accredidation in a world full of posers


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## Cruentus (Sep 11, 2003)

That's hilarious...where'd you get that pic, and please tell me that the sign on the door isn't real!


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## dearnis.com (Sep 11, 2003)

So what rank is the possum in the window??


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## Aegis (Sep 11, 2003)

The possum has been allowed into the headquarters, so must be at least a Dai-Soke Professor 10th Dan PhD holder. It's as simple as that.


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## Old Fat Kenpoka (Sep 11, 2003)

Did that guy actually break the bricks near the front of the toilet?  Did he use his bare...


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## Bob Hubbard (Sep 11, 2003)

Heh...

Actually, there are colleges just like it.... I get email from some of em all the time.


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## theletch1 (Sep 12, 2003)

I'm bettin' the possum claims to be soke of one of the animal styles of MA.  Must be the one characterized by fallin' over and pretending to be dead when attacked.

Gotta love toilet humor.


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## Ceicei (Sep 12, 2003)

Looks like he is conducting "business" in more than just one way (phone and ....)

:toilclaw: 

- Ceicei


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## DAC..florida (Sep 13, 2003)

> _Originally posted by PAUL _
> *That's hilarious...where'd you get that pic, and please tell me that the sign on the door isn't real! *



I first saw this picture on e-budo.com and the sign on the door was added by the person who posted this on e-budo.com!


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## tshadowchaser (Sep 13, 2003)

Great picture.:rofl: 
Possum rolling over and playing dead while hanging upside down. must be one of the ninja sokes


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## YouAgain (Sep 24, 2003)




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## someguy (Dec 5, 2003)

You are all wrong he is a thirteenth degree super grand master soke in kung fu


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## hardheadjarhead (Dec 7, 2003)

Great picture...it was originally titled "Redneck outhouse" or something like that.  I pray that was a posed shot.  It probably wasn't...which could give one nightmares.

As for accreditation...we'll never see it at the level of a university.  Right now we have very large organizations certifying people and not insuring any standard of proficiency.  We have independent schools who have high standards.  

It reminds me of American dentistry in the late nineteenth century...except that there isn't any concerted movement towards accreditation.  Likely there won't be.  We'll have the "McTeagues" with us for a long time.

Obscure literary reference...did anyone get it?



Regards,


Steve


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## jkn75 (Dec 7, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Beth Parker _
> *I sure wish the rank system of martial arts was like the degree systems of universities. It would make it alot easier to tell whos really what they claim. If the university is acrredited then the educational stadands are pretty close. *



But we know that not all universities are created equal. We would have a US News and World Report on top certifying organizations.  Everyone would clamor to the top ones. There are some quality, smaller organizations out there. 



> *In the martial arts it seems there are 1000's of people who are self proclaimed ,self promoted, and memebers of good old boy clubs like hall of fames and other. that swap rank and titles. Im glad real professors at college dont do that.  *



Ah, but some College professors do some bad things to get the almighty tenure. Some will fake their research to get the results they want. Some will do studies funded by corporations where the results will benefit the corp depending on the outcome. For example, professors will do studies sponsored by Ocean Spray on the effects of Cranberry Juice and urinary health, what do you think the results will be?

However, if this is found out, there is something that can be done: The professor will lose his job and credibility. It will be very difficult to get back on track and find a professor job anywhere else.

Unfortunately, martial arts is a business. In Martial Arts, these instructors merely lose credibility. However a new student standing in front of a school doesn't see the sign McDojo. It is only when they start to research into the school/instructor that they see things for what they are. 



> *Im only a mom with kids interested in martial arts so im no authority but what im seeing is the rank system that was began for placement of judoka competitors by Kano has become meaningless do to its abuse by western egotists. I quess im craving standardized accredidation in a world full of posers *



But you did something that not a lot of people do: research. You looked into the schools and tried to find one with high standards and quality instruction. Accredition would not be necessary if everyone researched the instructors and organizations that certified them. Noone contacts the governing body and checks to see that instructor is actually certified. No new students would walk in the door and they eventually would fade away. 

Yes, for some reason everyone is concerned with rank. Everyone wants to  train with 25 yr old Dr. 10th degree Super Grandmaster Possum PhD, MA, JD, PE. But what people forget is until you are a Master you don't get Dr 10th Degree, you get 1st degree Squirrel, 2nd degree Rat, 3rd Degree Raccoon or 4th degree Armadillo. If you are lucky you may get Master Woodchuck. Are the people instructing you good or at least, do they do things the way you see yourself doing at their level. This is what people should concern themselves with but no, "I train at Dr 10th Super Grandmaster Soke Possum's School."


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## Disco (Dec 7, 2003)

Apparently even so called legit instructors with accredited backgrounds are not beyond shearing the sheep (see kwans). Mabey, just mabey the state of NY is not that far off the mark for trying to regulate martial arts schools. I know nobody really cares or want's that to happen, but at least students and even people that have trained for years would have some recourse against fraud if it was to slip in. As was pointed out, a professor would lose their job and be hard pressed to find another. We sure could use something like that to rid ourselves of the unethical in the arts.


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## Rich Parsons (Dec 7, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Disco _
> *Apparently even so called legit instructors with accredited backgrounds are not beyond shearing the sheep (see kwans). Mabey, just mabey the state of NY is not that far off the mark for trying to regulate martial arts schools. I know nobody really cares or want's that to happen, but at least students and even people that have trained for years would have some recourse against fraud if it was to slip in. As was pointed out, a professor would lose their job and be hard pressed to find another. We sure could use something like that to rid ourselves of the unethical in the arts. *



Disco,

I am not against a formal system, yet the NY system was to be run with a board of masters, and to own a school you had to have a 3rd degree black belt and been teaching as an assistant under a Master. You had to have a certain amount of schools in teh area to get recogition and representation or direct feedback into the system.

So systems that do not have rank or convential rank of degrees would not have a chance to teach or be taught. The FMA's and the Russian systems come to mind. 

It is not that I am against a formal recognition ssytem, just not happy wiht any of the proposed solutions as of yet.

:asian:


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## hardheadjarhead (Dec 7, 2003)

Accreditation systems like that mentioned wouldn't necessarily stop the problems we face in the MA.  It'd probably cause more political problems, with various systems jockeying for political supremacy.

The "McDojo" syndrome wouldn't necessarily go away.  The frauds like our friend Eric Young (Hapki bujutsu) who used to grace this forum would continue to plague us.

I'd rather we all had a caveat emptor (buyer beware) attitude.  The free market system is always going to have its hucksters.  People will have to learn to be careful when the walk into a school.


Steve


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## cali_tkdbruin (Dec 24, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Beth Parker _
> *I sure wish the rank system of martial arts was like the degree systems of universities...I quess im craving standardized accredidation in a world full of posers *



Now that's frightening photo of a guy growing a tail, it's really the last thing I wanted to see...YIKES! :anic: 

But you're correct, unfortunately any knuckleheaded idiot off the street can call himself a MA master if he feels like it.


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## theletch1 (Dec 25, 2003)

> But you're correct, unfortunately any knuckleheaded idiot off the street can call himself a MA master if he feels like it.


 Too true, but most of the more outrageous ones don't last long and hopefully the others will be outed by folks like us.  It is just as much the responsibility of every serious martial artist to attempt to keep the hucksters at bay as it is the responsibility of the new MA student to investigate the potential new instructor.


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