# Pressure points in grappling



## allenjp

Sorry if this topic has been discussed before, but I haven't seen any threads on it, and it's something I've been thinking about a lot lately.

I always seem to hear about pressure points being discussed in terms of points to strike. But there are many where it is more effective in my opinion to apply steady pressure, such as squeezing or pinching them hard and not letting go. Since while grappling you are in close proximity with your opponent, many of them are quite open to attack.

 Specifically I remember my grandpa always telling me about the nerve behind the elbow (hurts like a mutha when you grab it right). 

Another one I have thought of to break down an opponent's posture when they are in your guard is to reach up and grab the ears, and pull them toward you. 

A flesh grab and pinch/twist of the inner thigh might work well to open your opponents guard too. 

Has anyone trained specifically in this? Anyone have any ideas of others? Maybe we should start a list...

BTW I fully realize that these techniques would be illegal in almost any grappling tournament or MMA. I don't train for tournaments, I train for SD, so there are no rules or fouls in this thread.


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## jarrod

i have no experience in pressure point k.o.'s, so i can't testify to using those in grappling.  however a lot of the ones you mentioned can be effective.  the elbow one you described has been used on me a couple times, i also have run into a lot of people who liked to dig their knuckles into your ribs when they are in an inferior position.  

my experience with those types of pressure points is that eventually your body will just harden up.  it's been years since i have reacted to a knuckle dig.  the double ear grab you mentioned might work, however in a self-defense situation you now have two hands on your opponent's ears & none guarding your face!  kind of important if you like to stay pretty like me 

imo, it's better to integrate pressure points into your fundamental techniques.  for instance, when going for a juji-gatame (armbar) from the mount, instead of placing your hands on their chest, dig a thumb into their salvatory gland right under their jaw.  this keeps them from sitting up just the same as pinning their chest, plus they will often straighten their arm in an effort to push you away.  

or instead of using your hand to pinch their thigh when in guard, pinch the skin with your knee & elbow as you walk over.  i think that approaching things this way has two advantages 1) you're not relying on pressure points & "cheats" in situations when they may not work & 2) you're still focusing on the fundamentals of grappling instead of missing these opportunites by focusing on pinching & grabbing.

hope this was helpful,

jf


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## DavidCC

here are some points I ahve found useful in grappling:

the mental foramen, when rubbed, will loosen the neck allowing it ti turn or bend backwards even against the firmest resistance.  Also UB2 is good for getting the chin up.

Spleen 10 or Liver 9 are good for breaking open a closed guard

Liver 13 and Spleen 16 are good for getting a body to shift weight to one side or the other

UB 50 can make them straighten their body out, which can be useful for gettign out of triangle (they straighten their hips, can allow you to get leverage/angle)

Spleen 6 makes for a painful as hell slicer

kidney 27 can be used to make the body twist.  I like to use this as part of a lapel grab, dig the fist into k27 while pulling with other hand.


thesea re just some cliff notes, if you don;t know these points already then this prolly won;t make a lot of sense; if you do hopefully you get some ideas...


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## jarrod

david, i have no idea what you're talking about.  could you translate a couple of those coordinates into layman's terms?

thanks,

jf


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## Kembudo-Kai Kempoka

jarrod said:


> david, i have no idea what you're talking about. could you translate a couple of those coordinates into layman's terms?
> 
> thanks,
> 
> jf


 
The code he's writing in refer to acupuncture points on the body. Energy in the body is believed in Chinese Medicine to travel along a periovascular system, akin to nerves but not able to be dissected out, called "meridians". In some spots, these points are mroe accessible than others. The spots can be stimulated for clinical treatment of disease of dysfunction, or you can drive one of your bony prominences into one of them to cause pain or mechanical disruption of nerves, arteries, veins, or muscles for defensive purposes.

http://www.acupuncture.com.au/education/meridians/meridians.html

If the bladder is summarized as "BL", and it's the 15th point along that invisible line, then the notation is "BL15", and so on. Exploring meridian charts and poking your finger into some of them will reveal some that are more sensitive than others.

Hope that helps,

D.


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## DavidCC

DavidCC said:


> here are some points I ahve found useful in grappling:
> 
> the mental foramen, when rubbed, will loosen the neck allowing it ti turn or bend backwards even against the firmest resistance. Also UB2 is good for getting the chin up.
> 
> Spleen 10 or Liver 9 are good for breaking open a closed guard
> 
> Liver 13 and Spleen 16 are good for getting a body to shift weight to one side or the other
> 
> UB 50 can make them straighten their body out, which can be useful for gettign out of triangle (they straighten their hips, can allow you to get leverage/angle)
> 
> Spleen 6 makes for a painful as hell slicer
> 
> kidney 27 can be used to make the body twist. I like to use this as part of a lapel grab, dig the fist into k27 while pulling with other hand.
> 
> 
> thesea re just some cliff notes, if you don;t know these points already then this prolly won;t make a lot of sense; if you do hopefully you get some ideas...


 
the mental foramen is a hole in your skull where a nerve runs through.  It is just below the corner of yoru mouth on eitehr side.

BL2 is in your eyebrow ridge

Spleen 10 and liver 9 are on the inside of your thigh, just above the knee

Liver 13 and Spleen 16 are on the ribs

UB (or BL) 50 is on the bottom of you butt-cheek

Spleen 6 is on the inside of your shin, a few inches above the ankle

Kidney 27 is on the bottom of your collar-bone.

And I agree with waht you wrote before, that you can become 'harneded' to these.  The trick is to use them quickly, briefly, authoritatively, with surprise...


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## Josh Oakley

putting a knee to the saphenous nerve or an elbow to the bicep or inside of the arm, used right, can help you get into position more easily.


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## allenjp

Josh Oakley said:


> putting a knee to the saphenous nerve or an elbow to the bicep or inside of the arm, used right, can help you get into position more easily.


 
Applying pressure to the saphenous nerve with the elbow is a common tactic for opening the guard in BJJ.


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## Brother John

jarrod said:


> imo, it's better to integrate pressure points into your fundamental techniques.


 
Jarrod-
I couldn't agree more!!!
I consider the 'use' of a pressure point as "Extra-credit" to an already existing move. I don't do moves for the sake of pressurepoints, but if I'm "in the neighborhood" ...I do stop on by!

Your Brother
John


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## thetruth

Brother John said:


> Jarrod-
> I couldn't agree more!!!
> I consider the 'use' of a pressure point as "Extra-credit" to an already existing move. I don't do moves for the sake of pressurepoints, but if I'm "in the neighborhood" ...I do stop on by!
> Your Brother
> John



Exactly.  Targeting pressure points for pressure points sake will get you submitted, hurt or killed.   In BJJ tournament scenarios there is no adrenaline stopping their effect however unless they are within an area you have access to on your way to an escape (or whatever) then you open yourself up unnecessarily to being tapped.  In the street however if it is a true encounter and not you trying to get a drunk mate out of a pub the adrenaline will prevent the points having any significant impact anyway.

Cheers
Sam:asian:


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## MJS

IMHO, any additional tool that you can use is worth it.  I'm far from a pressure point expert, but from what I hear, there're alot of them all over the body, so getting to one shouldn't be that hard.  During grappling however, depending on the position you're in, I'd say ones that are activated by rubbing vs. striking may be more accessable.  

Have I used them and had them used on me during grappling?  Yes to both.  Amazing how quick the guard is opened when you hit that spot.


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## lklawson

thetruth said:


> Exactly. Targeting pressure points for pressure points sake will get you submitted, hurt or killed. In BJJ tournament scenarios there is no adrenaline stopping their effect however unless they are within an area you have access to on your way to an escape (or whatever) then you open yourself up unnecessarily to being tapped. In the street however if it is a true encounter and not you trying to get a drunk mate out of a pub the adrenaline will prevent the points having any significant impact anyway.


The Carotid Sinus doesn't care if you're drunk or not.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## zDom

During one defense against multiple attackers, I was fending off one person in front of me when another jumped on my back with their arm around my neck.

I reached around and dug my thumb into the pressure point located just under the ear. He immediately let go and fell off my back.

I would not presume to base an entire self defense system on pressure points, but they ARE good to have in your tool box.


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## thetruth

lklawson said:


> The Carotid Sinus doesn't care if you're drunk or not.
> 
> Peace favor your sword,
> Kirk


I never mentioned drunks were harder to make things work on.  I actually just said that it may work in getting you drunk mate out of a pub.   However when adrenaline kicks in any pain compliance holds/points are pretty much hit and miss as to whether they will work.  I guarentee the carotid sinus does care if your assailant is going off his dial or is high on drugs.

Cheers
Sam :asian:


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## lklawson

thetruth said:


> I never mentioned drunks were harder to make things work on. I actually just said that it may work in getting you drunk mate out of a pub.


Ah.  I guess I misunderstood what you were trying to communicate.  My mistake.



> However when adrenaline kicks in any pain compliance holds/points are pretty much hit and miss as to whether they will work.


I completely agree.



> I guarentee the carotid sinus does care if your assailant is going off his dial or is high on drugs.


No it doesn't.  The Carotid Sinus is a baroreceptor nerve cluster which controls blood pressure.  A heavy strike to the Carotid Sinus can cause a dramatic drop in blood pressure and cause temporary blackout due to drop in blood flow to the brain.  Before effective blood pressure medicines were widely available it was common for doctors to massage the Caratid Sinus to reduce blood pressure in patients.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## Brother John

thetruth said:


> In the street however if it is a true encounter and not you trying to get a drunk mate out of a pub the adrenaline will prevent the points having any significant impact anyway.
> 
> Cheers
> Sam:asian:


 
You make some good points, Sam. Especially in the "exactly" part where you agree with me.  

....but really....
I concur with what you said, except in regard to adrenaline 'preventing' points. I know where you're coming from, but really....those only stop the sensation of pain. Not all pressure points rely on pain compliance for their practical application. Those that do, YES.....they can be MUCH less useful when people aren't disposed to sensing physical pain.

Your Brother
John


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## kaizasosei

taking a look at various grappling systems, for example wrestling, bjj,chin na and aikido it is interesting to compare.  in wrestling, strikes, pressure points are not really part of the sport, but if one takes a closer look, there are some techniques where one diggs ones chin into various parts of the opponents body.  digging the chin or other bony bodyparts into the chest, neck, back or even arms(wrists) of an opponent could be seen as pressure point manipulation.

in bjj,  escaping strikes is a big part of the strategy, so that means that one counts on an opponent to strike.  this is another good point of bjj, is that they do not neccessarily count on the opponent or enemy to be of the same style, but recognize that an opponent may be a striker. part of the strategy is to neutralize the striking power of the opponent. so, having the freedom to strike is there, although as far as i have learned, bjj does not directly aim to 'hurt' the opponent, but cause submission. in freefighting, it may be common to place pressure on the opponents head or even simply cover the eyes(as i was recently told by trainer), as a distraction to follow up with a technique, escape or counter.

in chin na, there are very many sophisticated striking, pinching and pressure techniques, that focus on many different parts of the body. one needs to take a closer look into books or actual training, but there are strikes to the nerves between the ribs to cause being winded, or solar plexus as well as muscle grabbing and pinching techniques.  it is the same or very related in socalled ninjutsu styles.  good grabs are the pectoral muscle, the ligaments of the neck, the skin on the face, the skin on the side of the neck, the flabby parts of skin such as the triceps area, the kidney area etc.  basically, many ligaments grabs can have a substantial effect as can skinpinches(especially when one gets alot of skin).  of course, something like grabbing the testicals can also cause great pain or submission if not just alot of screaming.   digging ones thumbs or fingers or knuckles into various meridian points can also have an effect, but it is generally more reliable and causes more pain to strike them accordingly, for example the back of the hand or parts of the head,neck or back.  forcefullly striking or applying pressure into various parts of the neck can even cause death or vomiting.

i would say that striking should play a great role in serious aikido, because it cannot be aikido to its fullest if there is no striking, because respect should play a great role, like the respect for a live blade or a direct strike.  that is part of aiki.  without that respect, the power of aikido is greatly compromised.  so aikido at its greatest potential should actually incorporate more freedom than freefighting or cagefighting even does, where certain techniques the players need not worry about(example eyegauging..groinstrikes..etc.)

hope i covered enough. im sure i left some good ones out..-with ´some imagination and a little trying out, im sure one can discover on ones own


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## davj22

There are pressure points all over the body.  A good basic concept to keep in mind is that any belly of a muscle is a pressure point.  In other words if you strike the beefy part of any muscle such as the center of the bicep (can strike with an extended knuckle to get even deeper penetration) you can cause substantial trauma and cause the muscle to cramp up.  That's one example of pressure points.

Additionally, there are nerves or "pressure points" between the separation of muscles all over the body.  For instance, if you strike with your thumb or knuckles between the inner arm where the bicep and tricep separate there is a nerve there that can easily deaden the arm.  Similarly the strike can also be done to the outside of the arm at that same separation point between the bicep and tricep.  That's just one example but this concept holds true all over the body.

There are other particular points that can be pushed such as the space just behind the ears near where the ear meets the jaw bone and particular accupunture points which is probably getting into a little too much depth.  

Hope that is helpful.


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## Kwan Jang

I use pressure points as the "poison on the arrow" in my grappling. Many points are not related to pain compliance, so adrenal stress is not much of a factor for these. The momentary weakness that they can cause allows me easier and faster transitions to either escape or apply my technique. I rely on superior body positioning and technique (the "arrow") for the most part, but the pressure points (the "poison") do help to enhance the process. I'll often strike, push, or rub a point to attack a joint. However, I will never give up a dominant position or leave myself vulnerable to go after a point. I have found them to be a worthwhile skillset to develop, but some make the (IMO) mistake of relying on this as a crutch instead of developing their solid grappling fundamentals.


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## Karjitsu

Judo Gene Lebell who was a grappler long before all this MMA became popular would teach his students to use pressure points to make opponents move to a more favorable postion. My favorite is the nerve just where the Tricep Tendon is just above the elbow. He would roll the Gi sleeve with his grip and use his middle knuckles to massage that tendon. Also grabbing the lapel and using your knuckles on the top of your fist pressing into the jawbone can seperate the whole jaw.


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## lklawson

Kwan Jang said:


> I rely on superior body positioning and technique (the "arrow") for the most part, but the pressure points (the "poison") do help to enhance the process.


And that's the crux of the matter.  They can give you a little extra "bump" which is valuble, but it's just hedging your bets.

I teach something similar with Bowie Knife.  *Placement* of a Cut or Thrust can greatly enhance the effectiveness of said cut or thrust, even be a "fight ender."  But it doesn't matter how effective a cut or thrust _would have been_ if it can't be applied, if it's blocked or evaded.  The first two rules of knife fighting is: Your pointy end goes in him while you prevent him from putting his pointy end in you.  Everything else is gravy.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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