# Obama Day in schools Sept 8th



## jetboatdeath (Sep 2, 2009)

Let the *indoctrination* begin!!!

*Critics Decry Obama's 'Indoctrination' Plan for Students
*A suggested lesson plan that calls on students to write letters to themselves about what they can do to help President Obama following his address to students nationwide is troubling and establishes the president as a "superintendent in chief," education experts told FOXNews.com. 

By Joshua Rhett Miller
FOXNews.com
Wednesday, September 02, 2009 

A suggested lesson plan that calls on school kids to write letters to themselves about what they can do to help President Obama is troubling some education experts, who say it establishes the president as a "superintendent in chief" and may indoctrinate children to support him politically.

Obama will deliver a national address directly to students on Tuesday, which will be the first day of classes for many children across the country. The address, to be broadcast live on the White House's Web site, was announced in a letter to school principals last week by Education Secretary Arne Duncan. 

Obama intends to "challenge students to work hard, set educational goals and take responsibility for their learning," Duncan wrote. Obama will also call for a "shared responsibility" among students, parents and educators to maximize learning potential.

But in advance of the address, the Department of Education has offered educators "classroom activities" to coincide with Obama's message. 

Students in grades pre-K-6, for example, are encouraged to "write letters to themselves about what they can do to help the president. These would be collected and redistributed at an appropriate later date by the teacher to make students accountable to their goals." 

Teachers are also given guidance to tell students to "build background knowledge about the president of the United States by reading books about presidents and Barack Obama."

During the speech, "teachers can ask students to write down key ideas or phrases that are important or personally meaningful."

For grades 7-12, the Department of Education suggests teachers prepare by excerpting quotes from Obama's speeches on education for their students to contemplate -- and ask as questions such as "Why does President Obama want to speak with us today? How will he inspire us? How will he challenge us?"

Activities suggested for after the speech include asking students "what resonated with you from President Obama's speech? What lines/phrase do you remember?"

Obama announced his intention to deliver the address to students during an interview with Damon Weaver, a middle school student from Florida who gained a following of his own last year on the campaign trail for his interviews of high-profile figures.

The Department of Education is using the president's address to kick off a video contest titled, "I Am What I Learn," in which students are invited to submit videos of up to two minutes on the importance of education in achieving their dreams.

Obama's critics say the lesson plans and the president's calls for a "supportive community" are troubling on many levels.

"In general, I don't think there's a problem if the president uses the bully pulpit to tell kids to work hard, study hard and things like that. But there are some troubling hints in this, both educationally and politically," said Neal McCluskey, associate director of Cato Institute's Center for Educational Freedom.

Among the concerns, McCluskey said, is the notion that students who do not support Obama or his educational policies will begin the school year "behind the eight ball," or somehow academically trailing their peers.

"It essentially tries to force kids to say the president and the presidency is inspiring, and that's very problematic," McCluskey said. "It's very concerning that you would do that."

Parents of public school students would also have to pay for that "indoctrination," regardless of their political background, he said.

"That's the fundamental problem. They could easily be funding the indoctrination of their children."

Frederick Hess, director of education policy studies at the American Enterprise Institute, a conservative think tank, said the suggested lesson plans cross the line between instruction and advocacy.

"I don't think it's appropriate for teachers to ask students to help promote the president's preferred school reforms and policies," Hess said. "It very much starts to set up the president as a superintendent in chief."

Amid the debate on the federal government's level of involvement on issues like health care and others, Hess said, "There's a lot of people" on both sides of the political spectrum who will rightfully be concerned with the president's call to action.

"It shows exactly what the problem is," he said. "This is going to open the door to all kinds of concerns."

Messages to the White House seeking comment were not immediately returned early Wednesday.

After reading the Department of Education lesson plans for the speech, McCluskey said he noticed several passages that should set off "alarm bells," including language that attempts to "glorify President Obama" in the minds of young students.

"It could be a blatantly political move," he said. "Nobody knows for sure, but it gives that impression."

McCluskey also noted that the lesson plans for young students contain suggestions to write letters to themselves on how they can help the president, but that suggestion is not in the lesson plan for middle and high schoolers -- perhaps due to the likelihood of increased political ties at that age.

"You don't want to see this coming from the president," McCluskey said. "You don't want to see this coming from the federal government."

______________________________________________________________


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## Andy Moynihan (Sep 2, 2009)

",,,,,,Man hands on misery to Man;
It deepens like a coastal shelf;
Get out as early as you can;
And don't have any kids yourself".


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## Carol (Sep 2, 2009)

And if President Bush did this, the reaction would be...?


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## jetboatdeath (Sep 2, 2009)

My reaction would be the same....
Has nothing to do with Bush,Or Obama.
School is not the place for any agenda of any politition.

Isn't that entire Bush did it thing getting a little old?

And Bush didn't do it so your point is well pointless....


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## Big Don (Sep 2, 2009)

Carol Kaur said:


> And if President Bush did this, the reaction would be...?


They would point out the Hitler Youth. But, if we point out the similarities between Nazi political goals and DNC goals... 
Well, lets watch:


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## Makalakumu (Sep 2, 2009)

Something like this could never have happened if we haven't progressed to a point in our government school indoctrination program where we are contemplating praising our dear leader.

This is just the tip of the iceberg.


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## blindsage (Sep 2, 2009)

Indoctrination?  Really?  What a crock of ****.


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## Bob Hubbard (Sep 2, 2009)

Rightthink.


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## Archangel M (Sep 2, 2009)

We should never have set-up a federal "Department of Education"...it's always been a "teach what we want or the funding gets cut off" operation.

Rightthink.


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## Archangel M (Sep 2, 2009)

blindsage said:


> Indoctrination?  Really?  What a crock of ****.


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## Bill Mattocks (Sep 2, 2009)

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalp...ssage----scribbled-with-some-controversy.html



> As one of the preparatory materials for teachers provided by the Department of Education, students had been asked to, "Write letters to themselves about what they can do to help the president. 
> Today, after Republicans accused the White House of trying to indoctrinate school children with liberal propaganda the White House and the Department of Education changed the section to now read, "Write letters to themselves about how they can achieve their short&#8208;term and long&#8208;term education goals.
> We changed it to clarify the language so the intent is clear, said White House Spokesman Tommy Vietor.


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## elder999 (Sep 2, 2009)

maunakumu said:


> Something like this could never have happened if we haven't progressed to a point in our government school indoctrination program where we are contemplating praising our dear leader.
> 
> *This is just the tip of the iceberg*.


 
Indeed.

[yt]dBVIY7hHkFg[/yt]


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## Steve (Sep 2, 2009)

I don't know, guys.  Bush or Obama, this isn't all that out there.  When I was a kid, we did this kind of thing all the time and it was considered a civic education.  Sure, it's indoctrination of a sort.  I don't disagree there. It's just not unique to Obama, and I don't think it's all that sinister.


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## crushing (Sep 2, 2009)

elder999 said:


> Indeed.



I read the description of the YouTube video.  Apparently, the teacher that created the video got in trouble. . . . for posting it to YouTube.


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## still learning (Sep 2, 2009)

Hello, Didn't Kennedy said something like that?

Aloha,


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## Makalakumu (Sep 2, 2009)

stevebjj said:


> I don't know, guys.  Bush or Obama, this isn't all that out there.  When I was a kid, we did this kind of thing all the time and it was considered a civic education.  Sure, it's indoctrination of a sort.  I don't disagree there. It's just not unique to Obama, and I don't think it's all that sinister.



I agree that it doesn't much matter who is in office.  I disagree on whether or not this is concerning.  From the inside looking out and the outside looking in, the way kids are being herded through all of these tests and standards is very much like a conditioning program.  I got out of public education when the government approved history tests were being prepped for public consumption.  Those are coming down the NCLB pipe.


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## Steve (Sep 3, 2009)

maunakumu said:


> I agree that it doesn't much matter who is in office.  I disagree on whether or not this is concerning.  From the inside looking out and the outside looking in, the way kids are being herded through all of these tests and standards is very much like a conditioning program.  I got out of public education when the government approved history tests were being prepped for public consumption.  Those are coming down the NCLB pipe.


Fair enough.  I am just saying that this is not unheard of and is very much like civics classes and projects that have been taught in American public schools since the 50s.


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## Makalakumu (Sep 3, 2009)

stevebjj said:


> Fair enough.  I am just saying that this is not unheard of and is very much like civics classes and projects that have been taught in American public schools since the 50s.



I hope it's just another piece of ******** American jingoism.  That would help me sleep better at night.  OTOH, we have some unprecedented differences in education now vs. the 50s.  There has never been more Federal control over local school boards then there is now.  There has never been a Federal curriculum that is forced on every public school child until now.  What makes the jingoism of the 50s different from today is that now students just might be required to learn that in order to graduate...in order to get a piece of paper that means you can have a job and a life in this country.  That kind of Federal control over our children worries me.


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## Archangel M (Sep 3, 2009)

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=50632298

Check out 03:17 and most importantly 03:53

WTF...?

If THIS is the sort of mentality circulating out there..count me and my children OUT!


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## David43515 (Sep 3, 2009)

Let`s not read too much into this. 

I DON`T like Obama or his policies, but if the theme of the speech is just "work hard in school to learn to better yourself and achieve your goals" I see nothing wrong with it. However, if it contains any, repeat that ANY, policy then I think it`s grossly out of place. But I teach jr high for a living, and as long as the lesson plans and activities are just suggestions and not requirements, I think it`s basically a civics lesson.

Trust me there will be some hard core Dem teachers who`ll spend way too much time on this. But there will be just as many teachers who could care less about having anything to do with it. They`re too busy trying to get thier kids to learn thier subjects.


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## Carol (Sep 3, 2009)

David43515 said:


> Let`s not read too much into this.
> 
> I DON`T like Obama or his policies, but if the theme of the speech is just "work hard in school to learn to better yourself and achieve your goals" I see nothing wrong with it. However, if it contains any, repeat that ANY, policy then I think it`s grossly out of place. But I teach jr high for a living, and as long as the lesson plans and activities are just suggestions and not requirements, I think it`s basically a civics lesson.
> 
> Trust me there will be some hard core Dem teachers who`ll spend way too much time on this. But there will be just as many teachers who could care less about having anything to do with it. They`re too busy trying to get thier kids to learn thier subjects.



Personally I'm fine with an overall focus of working hard to better oneself in school.  And if the president's role is emphasized in an effort to reach out to children that have been more at risk, I don't have much of an issue with that either, nor do I have an issue with encouraging folks to get off the couch and take steps to being the change they wish to see in others.

Work/study hard, set goals, don't quit, don't give in to every single indulgence, and reach for someone or something you believe in.  Great ideas!  But pledging oneself as a _servant _to the president?


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## chrispillertkd (Sep 3, 2009)

One more reason why I'm glad my daughter doesn't go to public school and that my son will not (now, if they'd just give me back the money I am forced to pay to support that largely failed institution...).

Pax,

Chris


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## CoryKS (Sep 3, 2009)

These things tend to have a way of backfiring.  My son's class was studying the election last fall.  His left-leaning teacher made a point of telling the class that she was voting for Obama.  Don't know how she worded it exactly, but my son's understanding was "She wants Obama to win because he cares more about education than McCain."

Which is how my son, not the biggest fan of school, decided that he wanted McCain to win.


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## celtic_crippler (Sep 3, 2009)

crushing said:


> I read the description of the YouTube video. Apparently, the teacher that created the video got in trouble. . . . for posting it to YouTube.


 
She should have got in trouble for bringing a political agenda into a classroom. 

Classrooms are for encouraging learning and that means teaching these kids* HOW* to think, not *WHAT *to think. Excercises should focus on getting them to think about how they feel and then backing it up with reasoning. Not how they can support a single ideology. 

That's a huge problem many college professors have, and I know from personal experience some of them get quite testy when you challenge their rhetoric thoughtfully. 



> Write letters to themselves about how they can achieve their short&#8208;term and long&#8208;term education goals.


 
Now I don't see this as a bad idea, really. I would expand on it and have them think about how their educational goals are going to impact the rest of their lives as well. 

6 P's man! 
Proper Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance


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## geezer (Sep 3, 2009)

celtic_crippler said:


> Classrooms are for encouraging learning and that means teaching these kids* HOW* to think, not *WHAT *to think. Excercises should focus on getting them to think about how they feel and then backing it up with reasoning. Not how they can support a single ideology.


 
I'm a high school art teacher, and a lot of times my students try to draw me out on politics. I just side-step these issues during class presentations, especially since they are not pertinent to the subject. 

On the other hand if I am sitting with a small group of students, working on projects, we often have casual conversations. At those times I'm willing to offer up opinions, usually phrased as a _question_ and encourage the kids to respond. Many will disagree with me, and some are really good at making their points. It's pretty cool to see. The important thing is that they have the gumption to tackle these issues and make up their own minds. It's the kids with _no opinions_ that worry me.


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## CoryKS (Sep 3, 2009)

geezer said:


> I'm a high school art teacher, and a lot of times my students try to draw me out on politics. I just side-step these issues during class presentations, especially since they are not pertinent to the subject.
> 
> On the other hand if I am sitting with a small group of students, working on projects, we often have casual conversations. At those times I'm willing to offer up opinions, usually phrased as a _question_ and encourage the kids to respond. Many will disagree with me, and some are really good at making their points. It's pretty cool to see. The important thing is that they have the gumption to tackle these issues and make up their own minds. It's the kids with _no opinions_ that worry me.


 
I had no opinions in school.  Life and experience changes things.  Most of the kids with opinions have no real first-hand knowledge of the subjects at hand anyway.


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## blindsage (Sep 3, 2009)

Archangel M said:


>


Yeah, that's what I said.


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## geezer (Sep 3, 2009)

CoryKS said:


> I had *no opinions* in school.


 
Yeah, right.





CoryKS said:


> Life and experience changes things. Most of the kids with opinions have *no real first-hand knowledge* of the subjects at hand anyway.


 
Yup. What'ya expect. They're _kids_.


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## Makalakumu (Sep 3, 2009)

CoryKS said:


> I had no opinions in school.  Life and experience changes things.  Most of the kids with opinions have no real first-hand knowledge of the subjects at hand anyway.



I encourage my students to take opinions on subjects based on the information they have and then change those opinions when new information presents itself.  This is one of the ways that I am able to tie science and the scientific method into my students every day life.  I think that many teenagers are perfectly capable and knowledgeable enough to hold opinions.  The trick is to teach them how to be self critical and flexible enough to recognize when they need to change them.


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## Gordon Nore (Sep 3, 2009)

Archangel M said:


> Check out 03:17



This video was widely discussed here post-election. The fact that the guy -- whoever he is -- kisses his own biceps after pledging loyalty to the President makes is pretty hard to take seriously anyhow.  



Archangel M said:


> and most importantly 03:53
> 
> WTF...?



Dude, it's Ashton and Demi, not exactly two of the brightest lights in the array. Ashton's big thing a few months ago was getting a million "followers" on Twitter.


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## Gordon Nore (Sep 3, 2009)

maunakumu said:


> The trick is to teach them how to be self critical and flexible enough to recognize when they need to change them.



QFT. It is also a trait that is not modeled in the media or practised particularly well in general. The saddest part of partisan thinking is that if one identifies as left/right or liberal/conservative or Rep/Dem, one is then expected to identify with a fixed set of core values.


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## Makalakumu (Sep 3, 2009)

Gordon Nore said:


> QFT. It is also a trait that is not modeled in the media or practised particularly well in general. The saddest part of partisan thinking is that if one identifies as left/right or liberal/conservative or Rep/Dem, one is then expected to identify with a fixed set of core values.



The thing is, if you really look at our national education standards, they teach exactly the kind of inflexible partisan thinking that we are talking about.  The focus on testing produces students who see things are right or wrong and black or white.  They are unable to assimilate new information unless it is filtered through the proper channels.  It's really sad....


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## geezer (Sep 4, 2009)

maunakumu said:


> The thing is, if you really look at our national education standards, they teach exactly the kind of inflexible partisan thinking that we are talking about. The focus on testing produces students who see things are right or wrong and black or white. They are unable to assimilate new information unless it is filtered through the proper channels. *It's really sad*....


 
Boy, do I ever agree. Now here's the latest installment on this topic in my district. We teachers just received a form letter to send home with the kids. It asks theat the parents mark their choice and sign permission as to whether or not their child should be allowed to watch the President's speech. 

Now remember, I teach_ high school_. My students are 14-18 years old. Many have jobs, cars, and other responsibilities. Hell, some even have kids of their own. And they need to have _special permission_ to watch the President address them on the topic of education??? I swear, the inmates are running the asylum!


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## celtic_crippler (Sep 4, 2009)

No doubt. I wish they'd put as much energy into improving education in this country as they are into healthcare reform. It would have a longer lasting, and more far-reaching impact on our society than anything else.


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## Steve (Sep 4, 2009)

celtic_crippler said:


> No doubt. I wish they'd put as much energy into improving education in this country as they are into healthcare reform. It would have a longer lasting, and more far-reaching impact on our society than anything else.


I agree, completely.  At the same time, though, I think it's overly optimistic to believe that any sincere efforts to reform public education would go through without much the same kind of vehement opposition.  There are powerful lobbies all around education and plenty of real hot button issues from vouchers to magnet schools to homeschooling to standardized testing.  Any comprehensive overhaul of public education would be propagandized by both sides, each with plenty of money and powerful lobbies.


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## geezer (Sep 4, 2009)

celtic_crippler said:


> No doubt. I wish *they'd *put as much energy into improving education in this country as they are into healthcare reform. It would have a longer lasting, and more far-reaching impact on our society than anything else.


 
They? You mean the big federal _they?_ I used to think that way. Now with NCLB and heavy handed micro-management of my job (I'm a teacher) at the state and mega-district level, I'd just as soon that "They" would leave us the hell alone! Before all that junk, I used to be a pretty effective teacher. Now, I'm not so sure.


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## JDenver (Sep 4, 2009)

Wowzers, you know that partisanship in the US is out of control when a 'credible' news source talks of worship and political indoctrination around presidential quotes regarding hard work and goal setting.

Sheesh.


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## Makalakumu (Sep 4, 2009)

JDenver said:


> Wowzers, you know that partisanship in the US is out of control when a 'credible' news source talks of worship and political indoctrination around presidential quotes regarding hard work and goal setting.
> 
> Sheesh.



IMO, the GOP missed the boat on this one.  There is a point to be made regarding the Federal Government's involvement in public education, however, its getting lost in the mindless hyperbole.  There's irony in the fact that the head of the Executive Branch is going to speak to children about goal setting and achievement when that very same branch is mucking it up so poorly.


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## geezer (Sep 6, 2009)

JDenver said:


> Wowzers, you know that *partisanship in the US is out of control *when a 'credible' news source talks of worship and political indoctrination around presidential quotes regarding hard work and goal setting.
> 
> Sheesh.



_Totally_ out of control. 

BTW remember Obama's first nationally broadcast speech at the 2004 Dem convention... the one that catapulted him onto the national stage? You know the, "There are no 'red states' or 'blue states'... only the United States of America" (or something like that). Boy, was he wrong! And that's pretty sad for the country. 

My guess is that if he had a 'do-over' on this education speech, he would have made it a joint address, delivering it together with a top Republican figure. After all, at least we _should_ be able to agree on the value of hard work, a good education, and committing yourself to worthwhile life goals!


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## Gordon Nore (Sep 6, 2009)

jetboatdeath said:


> Students in grades pre-K-6, for example, are encouraged to "write letters to themselves about what they can do to help the president. These would be collected and redistributed at an appropriate later date by the teacher to make students accountable to their goals."



Here's what I find troublesome about the proposed suggested lesson. It's not the doctrinaire aspect of -- that's almost to be expected. It is the banality and the meaninglessness of the exercise.

In some of his earlier books on US public education, Jonathan Kozol wrote about what he called a pre-ordained "exercise in failure and denial." These are the sorts of lessons in which school teachers ask children to write to *their* elected officials about injustices they see in the world. Invariably these queries are met with no response, save perhaps for a polite letter saying that so-and-so is very concerned with this problem and is working on it.

In other words, nothing happens. The lesson, however, is that one never demands change but requests it and quietly acquiesces to failure. It is a message that basically any government wants to be taught.


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## Andrew Green (Sep 6, 2009)

crushing said:


> I read the description of the YouTube video.  Apparently, the teacher that created the video got in trouble. . . . for posting it to YouTube.



It's a inner city step-dance team, not a "indoctrinated army"

Is it really that surprising that inner-city black youth, who grow up surrounded by racism, see the first black president of the United States as a bit of a inspirational figure?

Now where did that video of the kids worshiping a cut out of George W Bush go...

This is the President of the United States addressing students in the United States regarding goal setting and hard work, the fact that pundits can turn this into a polarizing issue should be a embarrassment.


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## crushing (Sep 6, 2009)

Andrew Green said:


> It's a inner city step-dance team, not a "indoctrinated army"
> 
> Is it really that surprising that inner-city black youth, who grow up surrounded by racism, see the first black president of the United States as a bit of a inspirational figure?
> 
> ...



???   All I posted was "I read the description of the YouTube video. Apparently, the teacher that created the video got in trouble. . . . for posting it to YouTube."  I didn't call them any kind of army, that they were indoctrinated, or that they should not find inspiration in Obama's election.

The problem many parents had (as well as some pundits) was the materials that asked children how they can help President Obama (D), not about the parts concerning goal setting and hard work.  Personally, I didn't think it was such a big deal.  A very similar thing happened in the 1990s with President Bush, once again showing how hypocritical the major parties can be when the situations are reversed.


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## Andrew Green (Sep 6, 2009)

crushing said:


> ???   All I posted was "I read the description of the YouTube video. Apparently, the teacher that created the video got in trouble. . . . for posting it to YouTube."  I didn't call them any kind of army, that they were indoctrinated, or that they should not find inspiration in Obama's election.



Sorry, I had seen it elsewhere, with Glen Beck referring to it as such and trying to connect them with The Black Panthers and militant black groups.


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## elder999 (Sep 7, 2009)

Carol Kaur said:


> And if President Bush did this, the reaction would be...?


 

Actually, to be fair, President Bush *did* do this.......


....Bush_ 41_, that is, October of 1991

*<sarcasm mode "on>*_The outrage from both sides was simply *palpable* at the time..How *dare* he???!!!._*<sarcasm mode "off">* :lol:


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## Todd (Sep 8, 2009)

Carol Kaur said:


> And if President Bush did this, the reaction would be...?





jetboatdeath said:


> My reaction would be the same....
> Has nothing to do with Bush,Or Obama.
> School is not the place for any agenda of any politition.
> 
> ...



Oh, the humanity!



> President Bush gets nearly a quarter-million letters a year from America's schoolchildren. Now he's looking for more.
> 
> Bush appealed to students Tuesday to write him with ideas for improving their schools.He made the pitch at the end of a nationally televised speech from an eighth-grade classroom, urging students to "make it your mission to get a good education."
> 
> ...


http://www.deseretnews.com/article/186081/


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## crushing (Sep 8, 2009)

Todd said:


> Oh, the humanity!
> 
> 
> http://www.deseretnews.com/article/186081/


 
Here is another thread on MT discussing how different the reactions from political parties have been:  When Bush spoke to students, Democrats investigated, held hearings


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## geezer (Sep 8, 2009)

Maybe I'm nuts to take a chance like this, but (gulp) I've decided to go ahead and watch the speech today. I know I risk getting indoctrinated and may be come an "Obamatron". Still, I'm going to watch it and try to view it as objectively as I can. If tomorrow you catch me posting, "I... serve... my... President... smootch (kissing bicep)..." Well then you'll know I paid the ultimate price. Wish me luck.


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## Steve (Sep 8, 2009)

geezer said:


> Maybe I'm nuts to take a chance like this, but (gulp) I've decided to go ahead and watch the speech today. I know I risk getting indoctrinated and may be come an "Obamatron". Still, I'm going to watch it and try to view it as objectively as I can. If tomorrow you catch me posting, "I... serve... my... President... smootch (kissing bicep)..." Well then you'll know I paid the ultimate price. Wish me luck.


LOL.  Good luck, Geezer.


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## CoryKS (Sep 8, 2009)

geezer said:


> Maybe I'm nuts to take a chance like this, but (gulp) I've decided to go ahead and watch the speech today. I know I risk getting indoctrinated and may be come an "Obamatron". Still, I'm going to watch it and try to view it as objectively as I can. If tomorrow you catch me posting, "I... serve... my... President... smootch (kissing bicep)..." Well then you'll know I paid the ultimate price. Wish me luck.


 
It's funny because you actually come off sounding indoctrinated.  :rofl:


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## Steve (Sep 8, 2009)

CoryKS said:


> It's funny because you actually come off sounding indoctrinated. :rofl:


Must be an inside joke.


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