# Help me find my old kata



## nuxie (Oct 28, 2008)

howdy folks. I am new here. I took hapkido many moons ago and only got up to my yellow belt 8th kup. well I am starting to take okinawa karate now and we started doing a form called teno kata imultae (i know my spelling on these words are wayyyy wrong.) well memories of hap ki do started coming back. I really loved hap ki do but cannot afford the drive 40 miles to class anymore. so question is ... 20 years ago i learned 5 katas from my hap ki do instructor ( i think mainly cause i was a teenager is why he taught basic katas and saved the arm bars, grappling and more adult and controlled stuff for later on when i learned how to control my aquard teenager body and muscles etc) i learned 
kicho il jon
kicho e jon
kicho sum jon
palgwe 
and ashidago umpigo 
spelling is wrong but that is how it is pronounced for me. 
i remember the first four and a few moves here and there of the 5th one. 
doese anyone know any katas similar to that last ones name? i have searched online extensively trying every spelling i can possibly imagine.
 it has a lot of elbow strikes in it. but it starts out with sande datchi breathing( again spellig) and some tight close to body punchesand blocks. about six of them if i am correct. the breathing punches are in the stomach  and done as if somone has you in the closest of grasps.  it goese punch outside block punch outside block all while breathing and keeping the whole arm still exept the elbow to the hand. i want to relearn this kata sooooo much i miss it alot.

thanks,
Mary 
oh and if anyone can help me with teno kata as well that would be great.


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## Daniel Sullivan (Oct 29, 2008)

Hello Mary,

I'm not familiar with any but the palgwes, and those only by name and background.  Our school does not have kata as part of our Hapkido program.

The first three would be il-jang, yi-jang, and sam-jang, though I am not familiar with kicho forms.  Palgwe forms are what we used in Kukkiwon Taekwondo before the Taegeuk forms, and there are (I believe) eight of them.  Books detailing the Palgwe forms are readilly available.  

I've never heard of ashidago umpigo.

Best wishes to you in you search!

Daniel


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## Brad Dunne (Oct 29, 2008)

http://www.sungshilkwan.com/TangSooDo/forms.htm

This is McHenry's TSD site and he has many forms available for review. I'm pretty sure the one's your asking about are there.


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## MasterWright (Nov 15, 2008)

Did the forms start with a block to the left and have a lot of strikes and blocks. It sounds like the palgwe set of forms. Taekwondo and Hapkido are both Korean arts and perhaps the instructor was giving you something extra.

Good luck


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## nuxie (Apr 21, 2011)

Rock on ! thanks for the link. I found all the forms exept the Ashidido empigo.. ( spelling is terrible but thats how it sounds. ) Perhaps if I uploaded a video clip it was called something else by the mainstream? is there a way to upload a video clip in the forums? 

yes most of the forms started out block , strike, turn, and followed the letter I pattern. The lost form I am looking for was the one right before the pawlgwe forms. 

Thanks,
mary


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## Daniel Sullivan (Apr 21, 2011)

Hello Mary,

If it is on Youtube, just post the link.

Daniel


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## puunui (Apr 21, 2011)

nuxie said:


> kicho il jon
> kicho e jon
> kicho sum jon




The Kicho forms are what is called the Taikyoku kata in Shotokan. In Korean, Taikyoku is pronounced Taeguek. The Taikyoku kata are not used by all branches of Shotokan; it was taught mainly by FUNAKOSHI Gichin Sensei's son, Yoshitaka Sensei. The Moo Duk Kwan called the Taikyoku forms the Kicho forms, which leads me to believe that the above was taught by an instructor from the Moo Duk Kwan or from the Moo Duk Kwan lineage. I do not know why GM HWANG Kee chose to rename the forms the Kicho hyung, but my speculation is that he did so because he actually did learn Taichi in Manchuria when he worked for the railroad in the 1930's. To avoid confusion, he changed the name to Kicho, instead of Taeguek, which I believe is the way Tai Chi is pronounced in the Korean language.


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## Daniel Sullivan (Apr 22, 2011)

puunui said:


> I do not know why GM HWANG Kee chose to rename the forms the Kicho hyung, but my speculation is that he did so because he actually did learn Taichi in Manchuria when he worked for the railroad in the 1930's. To avoid confusion, he changed the name to Kicho, instead of Taeguek, which I believe is the way Tai Chi is pronounced in the Korean language.


I believe that the hanja for both is the same.

Daniel


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## dortiz (Apr 22, 2011)

And as usual what we have is TKD school teaching washed down Hapkido. Its an old thread but thats really what was going on here.  : (


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## puunui (Apr 23, 2011)

Daniel Sullivan said:


> I believe that the hanja for both is the same.




I have a book called Tai Ki Ken, which I haven't looked at in a long time, but I seem to remember it was a Japanese book on Tai Chi Chuan, which goes to the title, Tai Ki Ken. So the hanja for Taikyoku and Tai Ki might be different. But I believe is it pronounced the same in Korean, Tae Guek. GM Henry Cho wrote an early book which included the Taeguek (Taikyoku) forms in it.


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## nuxie (May 9, 2011)

I will try to make a video of myself doing what I remember of the ashidigo umpigo form, tomorrow morning and upload it to youtube, and then post a link.  I have started training more in Hapkido once again and will be testing soon. I have to work on adding in take downs. I will try to make videos of the stuff I am learning. we do not do katas anymore. I think it was mainly for kids. I haven't found any Hapkido videos on youtube that match what I have learned. Most of them are either tkd or jiu jitsu that is labeled as hapkido.. arggg..so if you have a TRUE Hapkido video that you know of on Youtube I would love to see it. 

Mary


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## dortiz (May 11, 2011)

http://www.sungshilkwan.com/TangSooDo/media/HapKiDoHyung.wmv
http://www.sungshilkwan.com/TangSooDo/media/AlainBuresseHapKiDo.wmv


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## nuxie (May 11, 2011)

This is a piece of the kata.


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## dortiz (May 11, 2011)

Surf through these..
http://www.sungshilkwan.com/TangSooDo/forms.htm


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## oftheherd1 (May 13, 2011)

There was a thought about 25 years ago to incorporate forms into Hapkido.  It was never officially sanctioned to my knowledge.  However, any Grand Master (GM) can do what he wants in his school.  So your GM may have decided to use forms for some reason.

Looking at your youtube video, it looks like a form for kick defense.  Tae Kwon Do has many techniques used in Hapkido incorporated into the forms.  Some are more recognizable than others.  But that is what it looks like to me.


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