# Biting off more than I can chew...



## Nolerama (Sep 15, 2009)

I just got back from a grappling tournament, and went into the Intermediate (1-3 yrs) division. One of my opponents from the last tournament asked why I did that, saying I'd probably lose (I did, and got a nice cracked rib souvenir). He was staying in the Beginner's category.

I told him that I came to learn more about my grappling ability fighting people that are better, which I did. But his comment, as well as several other competitor's comments made me think about why people compete.

I'll be the first to say I don't have that competitive thirst and it sometimes proves detrimental to my overall game. The journey is what it's all about.

So what are your thoughts? Should I move down in the skill level and have a better chance to win, even though I'm really classed as "Intermediate"? There seems to be a lot of sandbaggers around. Or should I just keep on in line with the rules and stay in my division and maybe get some good knowledge in the process?


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## Xue Sheng (Sep 15, 2009)

First you should let the rib heal


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## Flying Crane (Sep 15, 2009)

Do you like collecting trophies and medals?  If so, go back to the beginners where it's more likely you will win.

If you don't care about that, then do whatever you feel will most help you grow and develop.


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## Stac3y (Sep 15, 2009)

Follow the rules. If you fit in the Intermediate division, stay there. Competing unfairly is unethical, and won't teach you anything except how to be a slacker trying to beat the system.


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## Nolerama (Sep 15, 2009)

Xue Sheng said:


> First you should let the rib heal



Most definitely! I think the real bummer out of all of this is that I don't get to train for a little while.

FC: I'd rather go the development route. This past tournament was just a bummer to realize that some people would rather stay in the 1 year and under class just to win a medal.


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## Flying Crane (Sep 15, 2009)

Nolerama said:


> FC: I'd rather go the development route. This past tournament was just a bummer to realize that some people would rather stay in the 1 year and under class just to win a medal.


 
bingo.


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## Mike Hamer (Sep 16, 2009)

I say the higher the level of person you can go up against, the better.


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## crushing (Sep 16, 2009)

Nolerama said:


> I'll be the first to say I don't have that competitive thirst and it sometimes proves detrimental to my overall game. *The journey is what it's all about.*


 
It's sounds like your journey is about challenging yourself physically and mentally rather than counting wins and losses (and ace wraps).  I don't see anything wrong with the path you have chosen.  May you heal quickly and get back to it.


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## MJS (Sep 16, 2009)

Nolerama said:


> I just got back from a grappling tournament, and went into the Intermediate (1-3 yrs) division. One of my opponents from the last tournament asked why I did that, saying I'd probably lose (I did, and got a nice cracked rib souvenir). He was staying in the Beginner's category.
> 
> I told him that I came to learn more about my grappling ability fighting people that are better, which I did. But his comment, as well as several other competitor's comments made me think about why people compete.
> 
> ...


 
I'm not sure of your grappling experience, but IMO, I'd say enter the division that fits your experience.  In other words...if you've been grappling for 3 months, the beginner division is best.  If you've been doing it for 3 yrs., then the int. div. would be best.  Sure, we all want to test ourselves, but IMO, I dont think its good to fabricate skill level for that purpose.


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## PictonMA (Sep 16, 2009)

I've only got a couple years of formal BJJ training but I've been doing Judo ne waza and submission grappling for a long time (1993/94).  I refuse to enter any division but the highest division available at the competition I'm at.

I'd rather get my butt kicked in a BJJ Blackbelt division then clean up in a white belt division where most people only have a couple years on the matts.

I refuse to let my students compete in any division other than one that reflects how long they've been training.  If they've been training for 13mos and the division is 1year or less, then they move up to the next division - I don't care if they get mauled, it's a better test and learning opportunity.


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## Steve (Sep 19, 2009)

I think you probably did great.  A friend of mine who trains down in Olympia is a blue belt (a very experience blue belt, but still a blue belt) and I was surprised to see him competing in the advanced no-gi division at a submission only tournament.  His rationale was exactly the same as yours.  In this particular tournament, he was guaranteed several matches as it was round robin where everyone in a bracket competed against everyone else.  

I think it's about expectations and goals.  His, as was yours, involved pushing himself, finding out HOW much further he had to go and pushing his own personal boundaries.  He did very well.  Although he didn't win the tourney, he fared well against some very experienced no-gi competitors and several black belts.

While the injury sucks (sorry to hear about that!), I bet you felt pretty good regardless of the results.

The only concern I would have are guys who sabotage their own success.  While it doesn't sound to me like it's the case here, I've seen guys fail to push themselves by seeking out situations in which they can't win.  It's akin to making excuses for a loss before you eve compete.  I'm prone to this myself, although I consciously try to avoid it.  If you say things before a tournament like, "I'm just doing it for fun.  I don't expect to win, but I'll learn a lot."  These may be true, but they're likely just keeping you from doing your best.  In the same way, jumping up to a skill category above your level is an easy way to say, "Hey, I didn't expect to win.  Those guys have all been training a lot longer than I."  

I guess in a rambling way, what I'm saying is that I see many good and at least one very bad reason for competing slightly above your skill level, and really, only you can know if it's positive for you or not.


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## chinaboxer (Oct 1, 2009)

that's the biggest complaint i have about NOGI competition. There's no way to verify even in the slightest a person's experience. With the Gi, there's federations that track that stuff, plus the belt itself that you wear is a visual cue of your experience. this just doesn't happen in NOGI and it's unfortunate.

IMO i don't see why NOGI even has a "intermediate" division, because most don't follow the guidelines. Might as well just have a "beginner" and "advanced" division.

What's really sad is when schools enter NOGI competition as a team and have their students sign in below their true experience just to win lots of trophies for the school, which leads to more students because of the hype.

I don't think you can have an "honor" system in the NOGI tournament, because for every "honorable" competitor, there's twenty liars entering against him. It's truly sad.

My advice to you is to enter "honorably" and try and find tournaments with a "double elimination", which ensures you two matches at the very least, giving you more experience on the mat.


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## Pyrock (Dec 1, 2009)

You also have to consider what people consider "a year of experience".  If you have a year of experience but you only train 1-2 days/eek, this is different than a person who has trained for a year but trains 5-7ays/week.  All other things being equal, you will probably get your but kicked because the other guy has been training twice as much or more.  Also, what someone else mentioned...someone has been training in BJJ for <1 year but has been training in traditional jiu jitsu for 5 years yet enters as a beginner.  Too many variables.


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## Perpetual White Belt (Dec 2, 2009)

Keeping kinda' in the same thought here, what division would you say a person with say 15years overall training, but only 1-1.5years of grappling fit into for both gi and no-gi competition?


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## Pyrock (Dec 3, 2009)

Perpetual White Belt said:


> Keeping kinda' in the same thought here, what division would you say a person with say 15years overall training, but only 1-1.5years of grappling fit into for both gi and no-gi competition?


 
What did you train in for 15 years?  What type of Grappling in the 1-1.5 years? 

If you've only been training 1-1.5 years in BJJ (gi only) then I would think that you have 1 - 1.5 years of BJJ (gi) and very little experience in No Gi because they are two different disciplines.  No Gi different than Gi IMO.


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## jarrod (Dec 3, 2009)

up to you, if you feel like you learned more, good deal.  i train to improve, but compete to win.  within the boundaries of the rules of course.  

jf


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## Perpetual White Belt (Dec 3, 2009)

Pyrock said:


> What did you train in for 15 years? What type of Grappling in the 1-1.5 years?
> 
> If you've only been training 1-1.5 years in BJJ (gi only) then I would think that you have 1 - 1.5 years of BJJ (gi) and very little experience in No Gi because they are two different disciplines. No Gi different than Gi IMO.


 
I didn't have anyone specific in mind when I was asking the question, but for the sake of apossibly more detailed answer let's use my background as an example, I've 19years of Okinawa karate overlaped with 9 years of Arnis, so let's say I've been studying BJJ for 1 year (I haven't.  I know maybe enough BJJ to avoid getting stuck on the ground with the average person), does that change your opinion at all?


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## Pyrock (Dec 4, 2009)

Perpetual White Belt said:


> I didn't have anyone specific in mind when I was asking the question, but for the sake of apossibly more detailed answer let's use my background as an example, I've 19years of Okinawa karate overlaped with 9 years of Arnis, so let's say I've been studying BJJ for 1 year (I haven't. I know maybe enough BJJ to avoid getting stuck on the ground with the average person), does that change your opinion at all?


 
IMO, you would have 1 year of experience if you were going to enter into a BJJ tournament.  Dont get me wrong because the other experience is great but if you claimed all that experience in a BJJ tournament in a...let's say...no gi event?  You would get owned by someone who possibly had 20+ years of BJJ experience (ie Blackbelt in BJJ).  Obviously, that wouldn't be fair to you.


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## Perpetual White Belt (Jan 23, 2010)

I agree with you.  I've actually been toying with the idea of doing some more training and competing a little, so it's nice to have an idea of where I should compete starting out.


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