# TSD Weapons?



## arnisador (Feb 2, 2002)

What weapons, if any, are taught in TSD?

If any, is the practice principally by forms or are there two-person forms of some type of sparring?


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## Cthulhu (Feb 2, 2002)

I'm not sure of the specifics, but the TSD BB I know trains with bo and nunchaku.  Next time I see him, I'll try to remember to ask him more about that.

Cthulhu


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## Shinzu (Mar 14, 2002)

we study both nunchaku and staff (bong).

there are exercises and forms for each weapon plus some tournament forms also, but i guess it would depend on where you study.


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## ShiN (Mar 14, 2002)

hi,

We study also the knife and stick (short & long)
(Tang Soo Do Moo Duk Kwan)


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## Shinzu (Mar 14, 2002)

yes we have several dagger forms and  i know there are some short staff (jo) forms and sword forms also.  i am looking forward to learning these.

TANG SOO!


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## TangSooGuy (Mar 18, 2002)

Most of our (World tang Soo Do) weapons training is forms related, although many instructors incorporate two person drills, and we do have some pre-arranged self-defense techniques.

What I have personally been exposed to includes the following:

1. Long Staff: 3 forms, several one-step sparring scenarios, choreographed two person sparring,  basic dexterity including strikes, blocks, and twirls.

2. Knife (dagger- usually single edged)- 1 form, numerous self defense techniques against an attacker with a knife, cutting seminars, dexterity, protocol, knife against knife.

3. Long Sword- Drawing and cutting, protocol, 1 basic form, 1 long form, another form I've seen but haven't learned yet, sword against sword one-steps

4. Cane- 1 form, numerous self-defense techniques

5. Rope- Not yet an official weapon, but have been exposed to basics of using rope as a weapon and in self-defense situations.

I have also been exposed to but have not studied in depth nunchaku, tonfa, and escrima.

The only weapon students will work with regularly prior to black belt is the staff.


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## Shinzu (Mar 19, 2002)

i love weapons training.  even if a weapon is not korean based i would like to learn it.

it takes much skill and practice to perform with weapons but i feel it is definitely worth it.

sounds like you do alot TSGuy. very cool!


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## Deaf (Mar 19, 2002)

Officially, we teach knife self-defenses however as far as having any formal weapons training, there is none that I have officially seen that is not tournament/forms related and many of those types of forms are from other styles that have been picked up since the forms are "pretty" for tournaments.

I do recally seeing a demonstration by a high ranking Soo Bak Do practicioner.  He demonstrated a 4 man form using the short staff.  Was interesting however I was not very impressed since you could tell that he was not comfortable with using the weapon.

HTH.

Deaf


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## Shinzu (Mar 20, 2002)

there are formal weapon forms in TSD. these are the ones i know of.

3 staff forms. 
3 dagger forms. 
sword forms.

these are performed by the organization that i belong to.  they are not tournament forms.  those are extra.


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## arnisador (Apr 1, 2002)

I was speaking to a TSD practitioner today who emphasizes staff but also does some knife and some rope (belt).


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## Shinzu (Apr 6, 2002)

it is said that there are no real traditional weapons in TSD, and that these weapons come form the origins of okinawa.  

they have been incorporated into many different styles and arts.  depending on your school and instructor weapons may or may not be taught.  i prefer to learn weapons regardless of their origin.

i have experienced training in staff, nunchaku, sai, tonfa, and sword.


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## shihantae (Apr 6, 2002)

Hi,
I can use almost any weapon.  However, unfortunatley when I was coming up through the Ranks, our school only taught Bo.

I learn the others in other styles.

I hear TSD has changed some..that is good.  Good luck on your weapons.   

Peace,
Tae


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## Yossarian75 (Sep 13, 2002)

Nunchuka(E chul bong), two forms various self defence

Bong(long staff), Five forms various sd

Knife, one form

Sword, two forms

We tend to learn the form and then we are shown the applications for each move and practice them in pairs


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## Shinzu (Sep 13, 2002)

i guess it all depends on where you train.  i believe that there are more non traditional forms than traditional ones.


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## Yossarian75 (Sep 14, 2002)

"i guess it all depends on where you train. i believe that there are more non traditional forms than traditional ones"

True the nunchuka forms were added by my school as were two of the bong forms(Okinawan in origin, very different from WTSD bong forms). The other three bong forms and the knife form were developed by JC Shin and I believe the two sword forms come from Kuk Sool Won.


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## Shinzu (Sep 15, 2002)

i think we use the same 3 bong forms as you.  bong hyung ill bu, e bu, and sam bu.

the knife form is dan gum hyung.  the sword forms i am not familiar with yet, but i look forward to learning them.  we also have other non traditional bong forms too.

we do not do alot of nunchaku, but we have several exercises, one steps, and two non traditional forms.

i enjoy working with different weapons, even if they are not TSD related.


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## arnisador (Oct 5, 2002)

There are two discussions of TKD weapons currently taking place in the TKD forum.

http://www.martialtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3917
http://www.martialtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=857


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## Yossarian75 (Oct 7, 2002)

About the knife, what kind do you use and where could I get one. My clubs supplyer can no longer provide the knives we have been using(single edge, 6-7 inches long, 2-3 wide, wooden handle), the closest thing we can get is a Japanese tanto.

Cheers


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## arnisador (Nov 7, 2002)

Watch the wooden ones--they're often pointed and can leave a cut or take an eye out.


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## master dave (Nov 30, 2002)

origionally tang soo do had no weapons training, but now were seeing the bow and the dagger being introduced. i have been fortunate to train years ago under the late master ormanian, and be a member of his weapons and demo team. i teach all weapons at my dojang. along with forms i teach practical defense tecniques using weapons. bo staff, 3 sectional staff, fans, knife or dagger, chinese spear, sai, kama, tonfa, single broad sword, double broad swords, nunchucku, single and double, battle axe ect. weapons played a big part of the history of the martial arts. the weapon is considered an extension of the hand.  tang soo do is such a beautiful martial art with a rich heritage. weapons training can only enhance its beauty! tang soo!!!!!!!!!!!:asian:


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## Shinzu (Dec 1, 2002)

indeed weapons training is one of my favorite aspects in the martial arts.  most of the weapons you mentioned are of okinawan decent, but it all depends on where and who you train with.  i am up for learning any and all types of weapons no matter what style i am involved with.


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## master dave (Dec 1, 2002)

exactly my friend, the okinawan weapons were the creations of the common farmer, as a means of defense against bandits. the bo staff would be found as a tool to carry supplies, it was held behind the neck resting on the shouldes, at each end would be tied supplies mostly water. when under attack it proved a perfect striking weapon, allowing the farmer to keep his distance from his attacker while defending his property. the sai were used by the farmer, it was drug through the soil , another farmer walking behind would plant seeds in the trench made by the sai. the farmer would carry three sai with him, the thrid pair hidden in his back. this sai would be used to throw at his attacker usually on horse back. the chinese weapons to me are the most beautiful to watch and the most difficult to learn. the koreans had threre share in the history of weapons, the sword gum do. a proud korean weapon which took skill and percision to master the cuts. the fan was also populiar in korean history. lets not forget hapkidos cane.  women also played a big part in koreas history. women were often used to protect royalty, for they were the perfect deversion, no one expected them to be body guards. they were highly skilled in various forms of weapons including throwing knives.   TANG SOO!!!!!!!!


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## arnisador (Dec 1, 2002)

The story of the sai as a farming implement is now believed to be in error, I think; most think it was intended as a weapon of some sort.


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## master dave (Dec 1, 2002)

did not hear that theory, can you elaborate further. how it was thaught a farming tool at first but now only a weapon?  is master fumio demura and okinawan master kenshin taira wrong also with their history of the sai being a farming tool? im very interested in your findings!


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## arnisador (Dec 1, 2002)

See:
http://www.martialtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4379
http://www.martialtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1603

It's too short to have been a practical farming tool, and too simialr to other weapons to not suspect that it was always meant as a weapon. I'm adequately convinced that this argument is correct.


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## Shinzu (Dec 1, 2002)

i thought the sai was always meant as a weapon also.  as far as people throwing the 3rd sai, i have heard of that.  it is indeed a unique weapon that could have been used in a variety of ways.


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## master dave (Dec 2, 2002)

great discussion!  i did a little checking, from the maru dojo, ryu kyu kobudo or the okinawan art of using farming tools as a weapon of defense. these weapons included the bo or staff,sai,kama,tonfa, nunchucku. the sai was used to plant rice and is still in use in some parts of the world today.
.....................................................................................................
taken from martial arts terms dictonary......

sai a pronged trunchen, used against attacks from various weapons including the sword. it was developed from an okinawan farming tool.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

sensi toshihiro oshiro......

believes the sai was allways a weapon. couldnt be practicle as a farmers tool.
..................................................................................................
alan shen l cheung...............


kenpo karate, the sai was a mere farmers tool which was often mistaken. the sai we see today does not resemble the origional farming tool. the sai was used to plant rice and also used as a defensive weapon.

who knows? the sai is a fun weapon to learn anyway! weather or not it was a farming tool or not. the modern farmers pitch fork kind of looks like a sai with a long handle dosent it now. makes you wounder huh!     TANG SOO!!!!!!!!!!!my friends!


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## Shinzu (Dec 6, 2002)

thanx for the info MD


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## Cthulhu (Dec 6, 2002)

The sai was not derived from a rice planting tool, nor was it derived from anything related to rice harvest, growth, or production.

Even if it was based on a tool of similar design, that tool very likely would have been wooden.  Why waste precious metal on something like that?

Cthulhu


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## arnisador (Jan 18, 2003)

Would anyone else care to comment on what weapons their TSD school teaches?


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## Shinzu (Jan 19, 2003)

we just reciently got a new member in our school who is TKD based.  he is experienced in many different weapons.  i hear he is skilled in the kama also.  i just learned a new nunchaku form which is excellent.  even though it is non traditional, i am always up for new weapons


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## Juche02 (Jan 19, 2003)

Well, the TKD organization I came from did not teach weapons. Not cool.

I have learned 3 bong forms in Tang Soo Do so far.
     1) Bong Hyung Cho Dan
     2) Bong Hyung Ee Dan
     3) Bong Hyung Sam Dan

Those are the only weapons forms I know.
In class, we practice knife self-defense.
Black belts are required to do sword defense (using a Juk Do (Shinai) ) as part of their second degree testing, I think.


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## Shinzu (Jan 20, 2003)

we call your bong forms.. bong hyung ll bu, e bu, and sam bu.  yes they are great forms


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## Juche02 (Jan 20, 2003)

we may call it the same. i dunno.. i don't remember . ih
What organization you in?


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## Shinzu (Jan 21, 2003)

i am with the international tang soo do moo duk kwan association.  my instructor is master eric kovaleski.


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