# American Kenpo History Question



## KenpoRush (Sep 22, 2002)

First off I want to say this is a great martial arts gathering place.  I've been looking for a martial arts message board for some time and think this is the best thing since sliced bread!  I hope to spend a lot of times discussing martial arts philosophies/principles/techniques with everyone.

My question today deals more with a bit of history that has puzzled me for some time now.  I've read many articles which named Larry Tatum as the "Heir Apparent" to the IKKA prior to SGM Ed Parker's untimely death.  My Kenpo instructor mentioned once of a situation that caused Larry Tatum to be expelled from the IKKA, much like it was described in Ed Parker's "Infinite Insights Into Kenpo," Vol. 1, where there is a description of the IKKA crest and the explanation for the axe shape at the bottom of the crest.  My instructor would not go into any more detail other than he was expelled and that was that.

I am unable to find any literature that explains if this actually occured and if the IKKA/LTKKA camps have reconciled since Ed Parker's death.  Can anyone give any light to this story?

Thanks.


----------



## rmcrobertson (Sep 22, 2002)

As one of Mr. Tatum's students, all I'll say is, "Oh boy."

Actually, I don't find the particular issue all that interesting. I do find it interesting that this sort of thing happens in the martial arts again and again and again.


----------



## KenpoRush (Sep 22, 2002)

> _Originally posted by rmcrobertson _
> 
> *As one of Mr. Tatum's students, all I'll say is, "Oh boy."*


I don't mean any disrespect towards Mr. Tatum...on the contrary, I had the opportunity to meet him during a seminar he conducted once here in San Antonio and found him to be one of the most intriguing, down-to-earth, likable persons ever.  The only reason I ask this is because that was a question my instructor could not answer either because he refused to divulge more info and further compound confusion with commotion, or did not have all the facts, or whatever.  If my asking this will cause a problem then I don't want anyone to offer any explanation and I'll accept what I know so far-that to me this will be a rumor, nothing more.



> _Originally posted by rmcrobertson _
> 
> *Actually, I don't find the particular issue all that interesting. I do find it interesting that this sort of thing happens in the martial arts again and again and again. *


I don't understand your comment...has this issue been brought up in other threads I have yet to explore?  Has this been rehashed somewhere else 'tll people were blue in their face?  Again, I don't want to cause any problems with my question...I don't want anyone to become offended or feel that they have to protect their instructor's reputation.  I just wanted to know if there was any validity to the rumor I heard.  Until I hear otherwise, I'll consider this just that-a rumor.


----------



## rmcrobertson (Sep 22, 2002)

First, I didn't think you were trying to be anything but inquisitive.

Second, it ain't a rumor.

Third, it had at least as much to do with Mr. Parker as anything else.

Fourth, the same seems to happen over and over and over within martial arts of all kinds, at least those touched by the Western world at all...which is all of them...


----------



## Seig (Sep 22, 2002)

it is best to let sleeping dogs lie.


----------



## Doc (Sep 22, 2002)

> _Originally posted by rmcrobertson _
> 
> *First, I didn't think you were trying to be anything but inquisitive.
> 
> ...



Although I disagree that it had anything to do with Parker himself, (I was involved and know ALL the facts) I will state that Larry tatum was NOT expelled from the IKKA. He left voluntarily. Do not let anyone tell you he was kicked out. Not so. More than that is not appropriate for the internet forums.


----------



## rmcrobertson (Sep 22, 2002)

First off, I think the history of kenpo is very much an appropriate topic for forums. 

Second off, I'm sorry I posted anything at all. It's not that I don't think the matter worthy of discussion, it's that I actually see no way usefully to discuss such questions. Among other things, the distortion of what I wrote ticks me off.

I don't appreciate being lectured, either, and the struggle to remain polite while being addressed rudely is more than I need to bother with. So I'll simply repeat myself: yes, there was a kaboom; apparently, these kabooms are a part of the tradition of modern martial arts.


----------



## Zoran (Sep 22, 2002)

> _Originally posted by KenpoRush _
> 
> *First off I want to say this is a great martial arts gathering place.  I've been looking for a martial arts message board for some time and think this is the best thing since sliced bread!  I hope to spend a lot of times discussing martial arts philosophies/principles/techniques with everyone.
> 
> ...



Through my experience, the best route to these questions is to ask the people that were either involved and/or there. (by email or phone)

Remember to listen to both sides and know that you will NEVER be sure what really happened. Some things are just unimportant in the big picture anyway.


----------



## rmcrobertson (Sep 22, 2002)

Finally! Someone sensible...now why didn't I have the brain to write that?


----------



## Goldendragon7 (Sep 23, 2002)

This is an issue which is a very touchy one.  And an issue that is long since dead.  As far as being Kenpo History...... I think you know all you need to know and that is that Mr. Tatum at some point left the Ikka and struck out on his own.  

He now is the head of the LTKKA and if you would like further info..... you may contact him directly and ask any further questions.  The exact how and why's of this break up is really not Kenpo History...... other than it did in fact happen....... deeper looks boarder on being nosey.

:asian:


----------



## KenpoRush (Sep 23, 2002)

Thanks to all who replied to my question.  I know this is a sensitive subject.  I did not ask Mr. Tatum or the IKKA camp this question directly as I did not want to become nosey.  I just wanted to know if such an event did happen and, if anyone could share light into it to please do so.  I did not realize that this subject would touch off a lot of raw nerves...this was never my intention.

Seig, you are so right...let sleeping dogs lie.  I never realized just how cranky the dogs would get if they were awakened!!!

My apologies to anyone I offended.  I officially consider this subject moot.


----------



## Hollywood1340 (Sep 23, 2002)

Fellow Artists,
 I recently loaned a friend "Land of the Free". What do y'all think of that flick? I enjoyed the kenpo in it, and the rest....well it was kinda like watching the A-Team, with cars being flipped every fifteen minutes. I hear Mr. Speakman has come out with another one, or will here very soon. I've asked this before and will ask again, anyone around here seen "Hot Boyz"? And if so, what did you think of it? I see Mr. Speakman is listed as Master Keaton. Any more info would be much apisiated!


----------



## Seig (Sep 23, 2002)

I saw Hot Boyz, as I believe I posted in the Entertainment forum.  I thought it was a very poor movie done in bad taste.  I feel that with the intention of portraying Kenpo in a positive light, it fell short.  Mr. Speakman's role was very minor, yet could have been much more important and influential.  The movie was not realistic and poorly acted.  After watching it, I not only wanted my $3.50 back, I also wanted my two hours wasted in watching it back.  This is with a doubt, in my opinion, the absolutely worst tripe our art (Kenpo) could have possibly been assosciated with.


----------



## RCastillo (Sep 24, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Seig _
> 
> *it is best to let sleeping dogs lie. *



Yes, especially this one! Leave my chinese buffet alone!:soapbox:


----------



## Klondike93 (Sep 24, 2002)

You all got my curiosity up so I went and checked out the trailer and I have to agree, what a :bomb:  :barf: 

Why would Speakman do such garbage? 


:asian:


----------



## Blindside (Sep 24, 2002)

Gee I dunno.  For the money? :shrug: 

Lets face it, the royalties off of "Escape from Atlantis" probably weren't paying for his cell phone bill.

Did anyone see his bit part on VIP, playing well, himself?  I don't watch the show (no really, I don't!) but I was flipping through the channels and saw a Jeff Speakman kenpo sign so I had to watch.  It was only a couple of minutes long, but fun to watch kenpo on the TV.

Lamont


----------



## Chiduce (Sep 25, 2002)

The Perfect Weapon. Great Movie!
Sincerely, In Humility;
Chiduce!


----------



## Tiger84 (Nov 18, 2015)

Not sure if any of you guys are still around, I see this question was asked 13 yrs ago. According to my source (and no I will not name names) Larry Tatum was axed from the system. I'm not here to burn him so I'll just say it was because of his taste in women and leave it at that. You can use your imagination. Whether or not he was presented with the opportunity to save face and leave the system is unclear to me but the general consensus is that he was axed. I can't believe no one answered this in 13 yrs.


----------



## Tiger84 (Nov 18, 2015)

KenpoRush said:


> First off I want to say this is a great martial arts gathering place.  I've been looking for a martial arts message board for some time and think this is the best thing since sliced bread!  I hope to spend a lot of times discussing martial arts philosophies/principles/techniques with everyone.
> 
> My question today deals more with a bit of history that has puzzled me for some time now.  I've read many articles which named Larry Tatum as the "Heir Apparent" to the IKKA prior to SGM Ed Parker's untimely death.  My Kenpo instructor mentioned once of a situation that caused Larry Tatum to be expelled from the IKKA, much like it was described in Ed Parker's "Infinite Insights Into Kenpo," Vol. 1, where there is a description of the IKKA crest and the explanation for the axe shape at the bottom of the crest.  My instructor would not go into any more detail other than he was expelled and that was that.
> 
> ...


Not sure if any of you guys are still around, I see this question was asked 13 yrs ago. According to my source (and no I will not name names) Larry Tatum was axed from the system. I'm not here to burn him so I'll just say it was because of his taste in women and leave it at that. You can use your imagination. Whether or not he was presented with the opportunity to save face and leave the system is unclear to me but the general consensus is that he was axed. I can't believe no one answered this in 13 yrs.


----------



## Touch Of Death (Nov 18, 2015)

Tiger84 said:


> Not sure if any of you guys are still around, I see this question was asked 13 yrs ago. According to my source (and no I will not name names) Larry Tatum was axed from the system. I'm not here to burn him so I'll just say it was because of his taste in women and leave it at that. You can use your imagination. Whether or not he was presented with the opportunity to save face and leave the system is unclear to me but the general consensus is that he was axed. I can't believe no one answered this in 13 yrs.


Actually he left on his own. Read through this again, and you will find that answer.


----------



## Tiger84 (Nov 18, 2015)

Touch Of Death said:


> Actually he left on his own. Read through this again, and you will find that answer.


Well... Yes others have given the "he left on his own" answer but no one wanted to say what the reason was. I didn't go into great detail but that question was left unanswered by all who posted here. To say he left doesn't clarify whether or not he had a choice. I believe if he was not "officially" kicked out then it was a matter of get out or I'm kicking you out. It's my understanding that he could very well have been Mr. Parkers successor... So why would he leave? The answer is that Mr. Parker was a man of high moral standards and after "events" transpired he could not let Larry Tatum be the face of his system. Mr. Parker left the system without a leader so to speak because people are corruptible, he wanted his system to change and grow and not be labeled by those who ran it. This is really more for those who do Parker Kenpo as an example of what moral standards one should have and what could get you axed. To those who are Tatum Kenpoist this information is sort of irrelevant as some have stated here because Tatum has created his own offshoot of the system. There are other reasons that I don't really care for Tatums system but that would be context for a different post.


----------

