# Kata and joints



## SammyB57 (Dec 4, 2004)

Is kata good for the joints or bad for them? My knees are incredibly beat up from high school football, but I am very interested in martial arts. I was wondering if karate and katas will help or hurt my knees. Anyone have any experience or information about this?


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## Andrew Green (Dec 4, 2004)

well...  that depends...

 they can be very bad, or very good depending on what you are doing and how you are doing it.

 Generally the snapping action of most kicks plus the unnatural stances of most styles are not the best thing you could do for your knees.


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## Lisa (Dec 4, 2004)

SammyB57 said:
			
		

> Is kata good for the joints or bad for them? My knees are incredibly beat up from high school football, but I am very interested in martial arts. I was wondering if karate and katas will help or hurt my knees. Anyone have any experience or information about this?


 Well I trained in Isshyn ryu karate for a while and it was very hard on my arthritic joints.  The snapping of my knees and the stances hurt them lots.  But that is me...and I was already pre-damaged before starting karate


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## SammyB57 (Dec 5, 2004)

What arts/styles would be good for someone with bad knees?


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## Lisa (Dec 5, 2004)

Sammy,

 I can't speak for anyone else but I do MMA.  The grappling and sub wrestling doesn't seem to bother my knees at all.


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## still learning (Dec 5, 2004)

Hello, We always have the students with injuries not to do the things that will  hurt them more.  Kata's will need to adjust to you, because in the real world you are going to have too any way?  Lots of people have some kind of handicaps, make what will work for you and use that. Bruce  Lee had one leg shorter than the other, thats why is face the right foot forward.  Super foot also had a leg problem and use only one side for the high kicks(super foot).  Your Sensi will need to also bend with the wind.....or go to another school?..Aloha

 If you have only one good leg?.. Learn use it ,and only one good arm? Learn use it. Make do with what you have?  Right?....Aloha


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## SammyB57 (Dec 5, 2004)

Nalia, I already do BJJ/Submissions and I absolutely love it. It doesn't seem to bother my joints either.

I am just looking into what all is out there, I am always open to try new things. I am really trying to choose between Judo and Karate.... I plan to start once the new year comes around so I have time to choose wisely.

I just want to make sure that if I do start something, it's something worth the time it will take away from BJJ and the money I'll have to spend


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## SammyB57 (Dec 5, 2004)

I also want to choose something that will be healthy for a lifetime.... BJJ doesn't seem to really tear down my body at all, in fact, I feel healthiest when I am doing it. I want martial arts to make me strong, and supple..... not on my way to early arthritis.


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## Ippon Ken (Dec 6, 2004)

You need to pick a system that emphasizes natural length and width stances and minimal stretching. It would also be good to look for a style that emphasizes hands and low kicks, and a good mixture of soft and hard principles. Styles like JKA Shotokan, TKD, Tang Soo Do, Japanese Shito Ryu, Kyokushinkai (this includes Ashiara, Enshin and Seidokaikan) and Japanese Goju Ryu tend to be more rigid and tense and the training includes lots of sweating and free sparring. These are all bad styles for the "joint-impaired". Styles like Uechi Ryu and many Goju styles emphasize body-hardening and this may not be good for the joints either. 

Styles which do not require a lot of athleticism or harsh training, but are actually some of the more effective (and original) systems include Higaonna Goju Ryu, Matsumura Seito Shorin, Okinawan Shito Ryu, Motobu Ryu (Bugeikan), Okinawan Shorinji Ryu and Ishimine Ryu, among a few others. Even many of the Okinawan styles which tend to use kata, basics and drills versus a lot of free sparring, like Shobayashi (Seibukan or Sukunaihayashi included) and Meibukan Goju, tend to be more for those without any physical deficit. Kobayashi Shorin and Matsubayshi Ryu can be very hard on the joints if not practiced correctly. Both emphasize lots of hard training, stretching, and Kobayashi uses all the kicks you can imagine (jumping, spinning, multiple, high and low) as well as lots of jiyu kumite (free sparring). It's a great style, but it can be bit on the "external" side of things.

Regardless of what you may think now, if you do a grappling system that could possibly be the worst thing you can do for your joints. Being in orthopedics I have colleagues and patients who wrestled and /or did arts like BJJ and they complain of joint and neck problems all the time. Many are on constant pain killers and have had numerous knee, ankle, and even hip surgeries. One of my friends who is a PA has been involved in NHB stuff for many years now and all the years of rolling has given him the arthritic neck (on X Ray) of a 65 year old man. He's 31. He may need to have his neck vertebra fused and may lose the ability to rotate his head with full range of motion. You need to think about what it is you're doing to your body everytime you roll. Just think about it.

I can't speak for the American Kenpo styles. I do know that good Yang Style Tai Chi is also an awesome and healthy style. Good luck and pick what you see and feel is the best style for you.


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## SammyB57 (Dec 6, 2004)

I also know of BJJ practicioners (take Helio Gracie for example) who are healthful well into old age (+90). What do you think could be done to prevent that kind of arthritis?

The style I am looking into is a combination of TKD and Chun Kun Do. My knees aren't really that bad, in a few months they will be healed from football. I just don't want to do something that will tear them down in the long run. I know any kind of physical activity will induce wear and tear, but I want it all to be for a purpose.

My biggest thought was that excessively kicking into the air would do tons of damage because there is nothing to absorb the shock of the kick. At least kicking a bag you have those forces going somewhere.

If the school I am looking into teaches karate in a way that is fluid (like a boxer for instance) instead of a robot (tense, rigid movements, not good for fighting anyway)..... I will probably go there. If it's robotics, I will probably due Judo. Eh, you only live once....


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## chinto01 (Dec 14, 2004)

SammyB57 I have been studying Shorin Ryu for the past 17 years and have experienced no joint pain after long kata sessions. This could be attributed to the shorter more natural stances of Okinawan karate.


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