# Woman, 83, is shot by police after calling 9-1-1 to report a burglary



## Bill Mattocks (Sep 26, 2012)

I feel sorry for her family.  But to be very blunt, she messed up.  There are lessons here, though, for all gun owners or for those who want to be gun owners.

http://www.whptv.com/news/local/sto...-calling-9-1-1-to/e2b1kAsGUkSsmonZ-tQv_w.cspx



> Woman, 83, is shot by police after calling 9-1-1 to report a burglary
> 
> By Michael Walsh / NEW YORK DAILY NEWS
> 
> ...



http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/333608



> Elderly woman shot by police as she looks for burglar
> ...
> The Virginia State Police stated the Altavista officers took cover upon hearing the gun shots and then saw Towlers leave the back of the house. The officers approached Towlers and ordered her to drop the weapon several times. She refused their commands and pointed the gun at officers. One of the officers then fired his weapon, striking Towlers.
> KSEE reports that the elderly woman was not wearing her glassed or hearing aid at the time and may not have heard or recognized the officers.



Lessons:

1) No warning shots.  Not now, not ever.  If you have a legal reason to fire a weapon at a person, fire it AT THAT PERSON.  You never fire at what you cannot see, you never fire a 'warning' shot (or shots, as in this case).

2) You do not go out to hunt for the burglar.

3) If you cannot see or hear, you should be doubly careful about whom you point your gun at.

I feel very badly for this woman's family.  I hope that through her mistakes, others can learn valuable lessons.


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## kgoffin (Sep 26, 2012)

Quoting this for emphasis.



> 1) No warning shots.  Not now, not ever.  If you have a legal reason to  fire a weapon at a person, fire it AT THAT PERSON.  You never fire at  what you cannot see, you never fire a 'warning' shot (or shots, as in  this case).
> 
> 2) You do not go out to hunt for the burglar.
> 
> 3) If you cannot see or hear, you should be doubly careful about whom you point your gun at.



Very much a tragedy for all involved.


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## seasoned (Sep 26, 2012)

Nice find, Bill, and well worth the read. People for the most part don't have a clue, and the ones that do just have some gun handling skills taught to them.
Not being taught what to do when encountering LE is a down right shame.


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## Sukerkin (Sep 26, 2012)

*KSEE reports that the elderly woman was not wearing her glasses or hearing aid at the time and may not have heard or recognized the officers.*

What a tragedy .  Altho' it is tempting to blame the officers for their actions (it was a very old woman after all) I can only imagine how the fellow who killed her must feel.


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## Gentle Fist (Sep 26, 2012)

Yikes...   Once saw a bumper sticker :  No Warning Shots Authorized


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## arnisador (Sep 26, 2012)

Sad...but I agree, preventable with common sense. (Age may be the reason in her case.) Don't leave the house to hunt for them--call 911 and let many cops with guns and experience and organization and communications and backup do it.


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## punisher73 (Sep 27, 2012)

Another thing is to describe yourself to dispatch and that you are armed so the police have an idea when they show up.

More people get into trouble trying to hunt down the criminal after they are safe.


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## Bill Mattocks (Sep 27, 2012)

punisher73 said:


> Another thing is to describe yourself to dispatch and that you are armed so the police have an idea when they show up.
> 
> More people get into trouble trying to hunt down the criminal after they are safe.



I would bet a lot that when she called 911 to report the prowler, and told them she had fired out the window, they told her to STAY ON THE PHONE and she didn't.


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## seasoned (Sep 27, 2012)

[FONT=Arial, Verdana, sans-serif]


> Towler had never fired her gun before that night. She fired a warning shot out the window to scare the burglar off.





> [/FONT]*Then she started walking through her backyard toward her sister's house.*[FONT=Arial, Verdana, sans-serif] She grasped the gun for protection from the reported intruder - not the police, her family maintains.


.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Verdana, sans-serif]The above might be an assumption, Bur, she may have called her sister, who said "come on over where it is safer".......................   [/FONT]


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## Tgace (Sep 27, 2012)

Dont let assumptions get you killed. Thinking someoene is not a threat because they are old can cost you...


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## Bill Mattocks (Sep 27, 2012)

Tgace said:


> Dont let assumptions get you killed. Thinking someoene is not a threat because they are old can cost you...



The officer was Randy Vetter, and he did die of his injuries; the retired rancher had shot him directly in the head with his rifle.  The old man was apparently known by local law enforcement to be unbalanced; he had threatened to shoot any officer who pulled him over for not wearing a seat belt.  State Trooper Vetter did not know that, but he pulled the old man over for exactly that offense.  The old man exited his vehicle, took aim, and killed the officer (although it apparently took Vetter three days to pass away while in the hospital).  The old man was eventually convinced to surrender (why the first officer on the scene did not shoot him dead is beyond me entirely) and was sentenced to life in prison.  He died in 2008, after spending 8 years in prison.  Vetter's wife sued his estate for all his assets, which apparently were considerable.

It does illustrate the reason why the police may have shot the old woman.  The fact that she was elderly and apparently somewhat blind and deaf does not have any meaning when a police officer has to decide if an armed person coming towards them in the darkness is a threat or not.  In Vetter's case, he clearly hesitated to shoot; it cost him his own life and it cost his family a husband and father.  The old man was unbalanced; too bad for him.

In this case, the old woman appeared to have done some unwise things.  Not to put too fine a point on it, but too bad for her.

That's why people who choose to carry and keep weapons MUST know how and when they may and may not use them.  When tragedy results, it won't be fun.

http://www.sanmarcosrecord.com/local/x1169226920/Cop-killer-dies-in-prison


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## aedrasteia (Sep 27, 2012)

Bill Mattocks said:


> I feel sorry for her family.  But to be very blunt, she messed up.  There are lessons here, though, for all gun owners or for those who want to be gun owners.
> 
> http://www.whptv.com/news/local/sto...-calling-9-1-1-to/e2b1kAsGUkSsmonZ-tQv_w.cspx
> http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/333608
> ...



Bill and others

*Her* mistakes?  Lessons for whom?  All reported information tells me she is not the competent person
I think you intend to address.

An 83 year old, frightened woman, poor vision and limited hearing who has a gun which she has fired at
something she thinks are intruders, goes outside en route to a relative's house near-by (still carrying the gun)
encounters someone else with a gun.  

Am I the only person who wonders *why *this agitated, frightened and likely seriously upset, *perceptually impaired  *woman has access to a loaded firearm?  

Somebody in her family was OK with her having that gun. Unless it was a secret (highly unlikely).
Information about these issues is the missing core of this news report.

I will bet that she had no legitimate training or preparation what-so-ever, even
at a younger age.

Based on my experience working with women of all ages on self-protection and safety:
someone in her family thought it was OK for her to have this weapon - possibly even more than OK -
it's certainly likely that someone near to her provided the weapon (possibly but probably not at her
request).  For 'safety'.  If it was hers, acquired at an earlier age and level of competency, her family may 
have accepted her keeping it, despite her age, mental state and level of perceptual capacity. Even though
she was unable to use it responsibly, she still had it.

'Mistakes' ??  from a frightened 83 yr old woman, unable to see or hear clearly, highly agitated, terrified
and in an unfamiliar intensely adrenalized state ?    And no one anticipated this outcome?  No.  
Denial (in advance) serves useful purposes.

I'm hesitant to blame the LEs involved but I wonder about their training and prep . Too early for
criticism. ( how to approach w/caution - calm tone, use the lady's name) and I am sure the officer is devastated.

Angry, defensive enraged family members.  *But somebody gave that woman a gun or let her retain it*
despite her inability to use it responsibly: physical problems - mental confusion - impaired judgement.
And likely with no training of any kind. And  denial about her ability to see, hear, think clearly when frightened.

But her having that gun made people feel ok about her safety.

I began to address this strongly after multiple experiences with women (of different ages etc) bringing 
LOADED HANDGUNS, usually in purses, into classes and workshops.   LOADED.

They DID NOT KNOW HOW TO SAFELY CARRY or UNLOAD.  They just dropped into the purse or totebag and 
flung it around. After all, the person who gave it to them didn't tell or show them anything else and he was
a man, someone who cared about their safety, somebody who knew about this stuff, right? 

I discovered that when i asked them to unload or properly store while in class (or leave) 
AND THEY ADMITTED THEY DIDN'T KNOW HOW. and that the person who gave them the weapon
hadn't insisted on them learning anything  (much less become competent) about safe handling/using.

or where the safety was.   what's that?

ok, I know I'm shouting and I apologize - these expereinces terrified me and still enrage me.

Without exception, these women had been given a gun by a  father, son, brother, husband, boyfriend.
*No training*  (beyond saying  'hold here, finger goes here, point, shoot)  maybe plunking cans in the backyard.

I have added very serious conversations about firearms to my work. I have added handling an *unfireable gun*
to classes and workshops. that's another post   Now I ask every time about what they have with them.

But most women trust the men in their lives to tell them what to do about their own safety and they trust 
whatever those people tell them to do. What I do now is different from most of the SD4W classes I read about
on MT and other websites *   Women work with me to think out their own*
*safety and choices, including weapons*. If that includes firearms I will go with them to a range 
where they can learn and they get contact info from me for 2 certified instructors. And I will follow up
with phone calls to them about training.

And I post after dealing for years with the safety worries of elderly women who live alone 
(my moma, my MIL and others).

A  77 yr old woman in a class (retired nurse)  casually told me about her 'little gun'  at home in her 
bedroom . Her son gave it to her after her husband died. He provided 10 minutes on 
'hold it here, point it, put your finger here, shoot, call me, then call 911' - 
thats what she told me he said.  Sound OK?

*she has PARKINSON"S w/hand tremors.* 
but she sure trusted her son.

apologies for ranting.


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## Master Dan (Sep 27, 2012)

well yeh she is obivously a threat just like the guy with one leg and one arm to the dickless law enforcement officers that wet thier pants at an oportunity to hurt someone I support more guns to shoot law enforcement out of control


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## The Last Legionary (Sep 27, 2012)

Master Dan said:


> well yeh she is obivously a threat just like the guy with one leg and one arm to the dickless law enforcement officers that wet thier pants at an oportunity to hurt someone I support more guns to shoot law enforcement out of control



"I support more guns to shoot law enforcement"

WTF? Ok, you need help, seriously. As in a lock up and psych eval.


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## Steve (Sep 27, 2012)

The Last Legionary said:


> "I support more guns to shoot law enforcement"
> 
> WTF? Ok, you need help, seriously. As in a lock up and psych eval.


Agree with the sentiment.  Mastar Dan, take it easy.


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## Bob Hubbard (Sep 27, 2012)

**** thread locked pending staff review ****


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