# I'm right, you're wrong.



## theletch1 (Mar 26, 2003)

> But what of those that arnt frauds or fakes that have branched off or started teaching there own style or at least a combination of the styles theyve learnt.



I'm in this situation right now and can say that I am very impressed with this particular style of teaching and the flexibility that it allows me.  My instructor has earned black belts in two styles of kenpo and has blended them together to make one particular style.  However, he continually pushes us to adapt the techniques to what ever flows best for the individual.  Once you learn a particular technique the way he wants it done he'll say, "OK, start the move and then just let it flow."  If it works on the street then it's the kind of stuff we like to see.  I didn't start MA for the old style traditions, although I enjoy the history and the spritual side of them.  I began MA for defense of myself and my family.  There are no grand claims to being the 624th great grand swami or no touch death touch moves.  Just, this base has worked for a couple thousand years so let's start there and see what we can add to it to make it work better for you.

I agree that there is a place for the VERY traditional as well as the more flexible.  That's what I like about this forum.  Seems to be a place for everyone, even rookies like me.  

respecfully,
theletch1:asian:


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## James Kovacich (Mar 26, 2003)

> _Originally posted by theletch1 _
> *I'm in this situation right now and can say that I am very impressed with this particular style of teaching and the flexibility that it allows me.  My instructor has earned black belts in two styles of kenpo and has blended them together to make one particular style.  However, he continually pushes us to adapt the techniques to what ever flows best for the individual.  Once you learn a particular technique the way he wants it done he'll say, "OK, start the move and then just let it flow."  If it works on the street then it's the kind of stuff we like to see.  I didn't start MA for the old style traditions, although I enjoy the history and the spritual side of them.  I began MA for defense of myself and my family.  There are no grand claims to being the 624th great grand swami or no touch death touch moves.  Just, this base has worked for a couple thousand years so let's start there and see what we can add to it to make it work better for you.
> 
> I agree that there is a place for the VERY traditional as well as the more flexible.  That's what I like about this forum.  Seems to be a place for everyone, even rookies like me.
> ...



Thats similar to a JKD mentality in the sense that in the end there is no technique. Thats what they say anyway. But actually the techniques are very much present. But in your mind you "just do" compared to "think and do".


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## theletch1 (Mar 26, 2003)

Exactly 

Thanks, I thought for sure I'd catch a bunch of flak about not being a "true" kenpoist.


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## Johnathan Napalm (Mar 26, 2003)

The shortcoming inherented in tournaments is obvious. But everyone jumps on the bandwagon to piss on tournys, including those who have never fought in one in their whole life time. 

Tournament competition is a useful training experience. None of you who "play" inside the safety of your dojangs/dojos know what an adrenaline rush can impact your ability to function.  Tournament gives young fighters the very few chances they have to experience the adrenaline rush (and how to deal with it) and the opportunity to engage unknown opponents.

Everybody knows there are artificial rules in tournys, and so forth and so forth. Yesterday's news.  THere are ways to train to compensate for that.   Throwing out tournys altogether, is like throwing out the baby with the water.


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## A.R.K. (Mar 26, 2003)

theletch1,



> My instructor has earned black belts in two styles of kenpo and has blended them together to make one particular style. However, he continually pushes us to adapt the techniques to what ever flows best for the individual



I very much agree with this philosophy and have to a great degree adopted it into my teaching.  I thing it wise as an instructor to teach several methods for a particular assault and then find out what works the very best for *them*  and concentrate on it.  I feel my job as an instructor is not to teach you what _I_  can do but to teach you what _you _  can do.

JN,



> But everyone jumps on the bandwagon to piss on tournys, including those who have never fought in one in their whole life time.



I don't think anyone is _pissing_  on tournaments or competitions so much as addressing there proper place.  They *may*  have a place in training, that can be a subject for debate.  And in some regards they may be as _real_  as can be safetly achieved given having a referee and rules.  But, anything that has a referee, rules or protective equipment is not reality based and can give the participant a false sense of security when it comes to a *real*  situation.

I've said it before and I'll say it again.  I appreciate and respect the tournament/competition particiapant/champion...but I am unimpressed.  I AM impressed with a 120 lbs house wife that successfully defends herself from a rapist.  That is *real* and means quite a bit more than a ribbon or trophy IMHO.


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## Johnathan Napalm (Mar 26, 2003)

Giving the 120 lb housewife the false sense of security that she can defeat a 250 cirminally insane psychopatic socialpath, is criminal.


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## A.R.K. (Mar 26, 2003)

> Giving the 120 lb housewife the false sense of security that she can defeat a 250 cirminally insane psychopatic socialpath, is criminal.



So your saying a woman is not capable of defending herself against a man?


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## A.R.K. (Mar 26, 2003)

Btw...



> psychopatic socialpath



is the same thing.


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## Johnathan Napalm (Mar 26, 2003)

No that is not what I am saying.  

I am saying :

1. Most 120 lb person (man or woman) would have a very tough time defeating a 250lb  criminal. For those who argue otherwise, next time when you go to a competition, ask to be matched against someone above your division. And tell the organizers that they are simply being stupid to put this weight division scheme there in the first place.  I am not saying you can't defeat someone bigger than you.  But * in the case of 120lb woman against a 250lb psychopath?  That is like YOU going up against a Sumo wrestler! *  Fat Chance!    Indeed!

2. Most MA instruction/lesson that the typical 120lb housewife get, IS NOT sufficient to equip her to defeat a 250lb criminal. I would laugh at those McDojo lessons focusing on throwing your attackers around.

3. Therefore, a lot of 120 lb housewives are being fooled by these McDojo operators.


It is criminal to sell them this false sense of security and the big lie that criminals are so stupid as to stand there and let you do all your neat  tricks that you play around in the safety of your dojo.


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## A.R.K. (Mar 26, 2003)

Well, lets take a good, hard look at what your saying;



> Most 120 lb person (man or woman) would have a very tough time defeating a 250lb criminal. For those who argue otherwise, next time when you go to a competition, ask to be matched against someone above your division



Well here you are basing your opinon by rules of competition.  Which are, as I and others have said is unrealistic.  A 120 lbs women in a boxing match with a 250 lbs man _probably_  wouldn't fare well.  But that has rules, referee and protective equipment.  Thats not real life my friend nor is it the meat of my comment.




> But in the case of 120lb woman against a 250lb psychopath? That is like YOU going up against a Sumo wrestler



Really???     I would take that bet.  You see, your trapped into fighting the same fight mentality.  If I were to fight a sumo wrestler....I wouldn't be wrestling him.   Would I do well?  Basing this fictional encounter with a real life event I would say better than average    Why?  Well probably because I am 6' and about 170 lbs and the biggest enemy I have faced was 6'8 and weighed 380 lbs.  He was a very violent and uncooperative felon and very intent on hurting me.  One well placed knee spike and a shoulder lock persuaded him to discontinue his rude behavior.  I don't have a big 'S' on my chest, but your fictional encounter doesn't cause me to lose sleep.  I does reveal to me that you seemed to be trapped into a tournament mind set.  I find this dangerous to yourself.



> . Most MA instruction/lesson that the typical 120lb housewife get, IS NOT sufficient to equip her to defeat a 250lb criminal. I would laugh at those McDojo lessons focusing on throwing your attackers around.



I don't recall anyone mentioning McDojo training for our young lady.....



> It is criminal to sell them this false sense of security and the big lie that criminals are so stupid as to stand there and let you do all your neat tricks that you play around in the safety of your dojo



Again, I don't think anyone has mentioned the method of training for our young lady.  I don't have any 'neat' tricks nor do we teach on static, non-resisting targets.  And since I have had a young female student, 5' tall defend herself MOST successfully against a would-be date rapist...AND since I work with a large number of female Deputies who reguarly are involved in uses-of-force against male inmates/prisoners and WIN I would have to consider your _opinion _  as uninformed and perhaps a bit testosterone laden.

Given proper training a woman with her wits about her can protect herself from grievace harm.  It does not, and should not take great strength to correctly utilize a technique or tactic that is appropriate to the situation.  

Perhaps you should not put your limitations on others....it's not accurate or realistic to do so my friend.


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## Johnathan Napalm (Mar 26, 2003)

Riight.   How typical.

More experienced fighters and masters would tell you that is the common fallacy of your average garden variety martial artist. Bill Wallace would tell you, that your assertion flies in the face of reality.

BTW, you love to claim credential. This is the internet. Claim is a dime a dozen. Proof is non-existence.

If you want to claim you win the argument, go right ahead.  Proof is another thing. This is the internet. Pointless argument.


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## Johnathan Napalm (Mar 26, 2003)

"...Given proper training a woman with her wits about her can protect herself from grievace harm...."

Actually this is true.   "...given* PROPER TRAINING * and * wits*..."


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## A.R.K. (Mar 26, 2003)

> More experienced fighters and masters would tell you that is the common fallacy of your average garden variety martial artist.



And your documentation to back up this claim would be.... 



> Bill Wallace would tell you, that your assertion flies in the face of reality.



Really???  I'll ask him when I see him next month.



> you love to claim credential.



Nope just stating the obvious.  And it's obvious your trapped into inside-the-box linear thinking.  



> If you want to claim you win the argument, go right ahead.



Why?  Do you feel that you lost the 'argument'.  I thought we were posting opinions and real life incidents.  See...that competition mind set creeping up on you again.

Bottome line, a women need not drop and spread eagle because a man makes a move on her.  As I've said, I know a woman can prevail.  You mentioned small men as well.  Hmm, I suppose all those small oriental guys should give up training as well since it's pretty much a gimmee they don't stand a chance against a larger opponent.

Seems I remember something along the lines of 'the bigger they are the harder they fall'.  

Hey, have yourself a nice day.


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## arnisador (Mar 26, 2003)

Thread split from "On the boards" thread.

-Arnisador
-MT Admin-


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## Disco (Mar 26, 2003)

JN, you are correct when you state that it is criminal to give false confidence.

MRJ, you are also correct with the tournament mind set.

JN, just remember that for many years the martial arts had no tournaments.  

And BOTH of you HIT the nail on the head with the statement of PROPER TRAINING. This to me is the major problem within the arts today.


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## arnisador (Mar 26, 2003)

Post moved from "On the boards" thread (simultaneous editing).

-Arnisador
-MT Admin-


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## A.R.K. (Mar 26, 2003)

Bingo  

Size and weight don't stack up to skill and knowledge.


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## James Kovacich (Mar 26, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Johnathan Napalm _
> *Giving the 120 lb housewife the false sense of security that she can defeat a 250 cirminally insane psychopatic socialpath, is criminal. *



So you think she has NO chance?


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## James Kovacich (Mar 26, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Johnathan Napalm _
> *No that is not what I am saying.
> 
> I am saying :
> ...



In a 'REAL" situation, the 120 lb. woman would not need to "DEFEAT" the 250 LB. attacker. "ALL" she needs to do is "ESCAPE".

My daughter is 4'10" and she packs a punch along with a decent knowledge of the "VITAL" targets and is smart enough to use a stick if possible. No rules, just escape and live!

:asian:


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## RyuShiKan (Mar 27, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Johnathan Napalm _
> *The shortcoming inherented in tournaments is obvious. But everyone jumps on the bandwagon to piss on tournys, including those who have never fought in one in their whole life time.  *



I have been in and judged plenty of tournaments both here and the US.




> _Originally posted by Johnathan Napalm _
> *Tournament competition is a useful training experience. None of you who "play" inside the safety of your dojangs/dojos know what an adrenaline rush can impact your ability to function. *



Considering we spar full contact with bogu gear in my dojo and most of the tournaments outside my dojo are tippy-tap I dont get much of a rush.




> _Originally posted by Johnathan Napalm _
> *
> Everybody knows there are artificial rules in tournys, and so forth and so forth. Yesterday's news.  THere are ways to train to compensate for that.   Throwing out tournys altogether, is like throwing out the baby with the water. *



People often get caught up in training only for tournaments and neglect real
techniques. You will fight the way you train.






> _Originally posted by Johnathan Napalm _
> *Giving the 120 lb housewife the false sense of security that she can defeat a 250 cirminally insane psychopatic socialpath, is criminal. *




Most grown men, trained or untrained couldnt subdue such an adversary either.


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## Johnathan Napalm (Mar 27, 2003)

> _Originally posted by RyuShiKan _
> 
> People often get caught up in training only for tournaments and neglect real
> techniques. You will fight the way you train.


Without a doubt that is a problem.  One of the more practical advice I have heard is, if you want to defeat someone of a particular art, just locate their rule books on illegal strikes and learn those.  Lol, b/c they don't practice those and wouldn't know how to defend against such attack.



> Most grown men, trained or untrained couldnt subdue such an adversary either.



hahaha, tell that Zou David, or Mya Ryu Jitsu or David Shultz or whatever he calls himself. He claims that not only he could, but all the 120 lb females he claimed to have trained could too!  LMAO.


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## Johnathan Napalm (Mar 27, 2003)

> _Originally posted by akja _
> *So you think she has NO chance? *



No legitimate instructor of women self defence would even pretend to present such ludicurous notion.

A legitimate self defence instructor would NEVER make the BS claim that he is going to teach a 120lb woman to defeat a 250 lb psychopathic socialpath.

This kind of bogus claim is in the same league as "I'll teach you how to disarm knives and guns in 30 hours"  "I'll teach you to fight off a dozen attackers." "No painstaking training. Just my secret techniques from the Spetznaz and the IDF special forces."  

If you want to know what the really experienced fighters would instruct, PM me. I am not going to tip off the half baked operators on how to sound legit.


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## A.R.K. (Mar 27, 2003)

> haha, tell that Zou David, or Mya Ryu Jitsu or David Shultz or whatever he calls himself. He claims that not only he could, but all the 120 lb females he claimed to have trained could too! LMAO.



Could you post where I said all the 120 lbs females I have trained could do so please.....or are you merely running off at the mouth again with your hurt feelings?

I stated that one of my female students HAS successfully defended herself against a male who intended to rape her.  This means that in real life a woman CAN successfully defend herself against a male attacker.  I would hate to be a woman going to you for training, I can hear you saying "well, your just a woman so we know there is no way you can protect yourself so just lay down a spread your legs and hopefully he won't kill you afterwards".  People like you are a throwback to the 70's and make me sick.

If your form of training REQUIRES you to be a man with size and strength to have a CHANCE...then you've got the wrong training!  Like AKJA said all she needs to do is escape if nothing else.  

Your trapped in a competition mind set that doesn't allow you to view real world situations.  It is abundantly clear you have never been in a real world encounter.  Sitting next to me is a female Deputy with 15 years on the job who has had to fight men....and won.  Why?  Because she knows what she's doing and is determined to win.  Does that make her superwoman...no.  But it does blow your BS out the door.

To ALL women here who read this thread, ignore JN's nonsense.  There are usually two crime scenes in a rape situation.  The first is where the attack/abduction begins and the second is where the act is carried out.  It is your choice but be advised that your chances of surviaval drop DRAMATICALLY if you allow yourself to be taken to crime scene two.  It's your body and your life, don't let some know-it-all feed you a BS line that you haven't got a chance.

The last LEO statistics that I have seen are that only a small % of rapes are successfull against a victim that resists with wits and determination.  And only 1% against a woman that is armed with a firearm and is competent with it's use.  If you are hit...fight back.  If you are stabbed...don't panic and fight back.  If you are shot...don't panic and fight back.  Do it for yourself, your husband, your family, your kids...whatever is personal to YOU.  This is how LEO's are trained and you are NO LESS important.  

If a man can't breath...he can't fight.  If a man can't walk...he can't reach you.  If a man can't see...you can escape.  Jonathan thinks you will fail because your going to box them or try to throw them.  I think you are going to win because your going to strike with RAGE AND INDIGNATION a vital area, you are going to use naturally occuring weapons such as keys, a purse, a lamp...whatever.  Your not looking to score points....your looking to survive and win!!!!!

Stay safe :asian:


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## Quick Sand (Mar 27, 2003)

There are also a few throws/ take downs that are easier on a larger opponent becausae the smaller person has the advantage of a lower centre of gravity. 

I'm not saying all throws and take downs but there are a few that don't take much strength, they just need to be done correctly. 

One other little thing, I'm not sure your average women these days is 120lbs either. Most of my friends and the other women I know are larger then that. No, they're not as strong or as big as most guys but they are bigger then 120lbs. I have a small beef with guys assumeing all women at tiny. 

QS


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## Jill666 (Mar 27, 2003)

I worked in detox, I worked in psych. Worked 12 years total in state-funded programs for homeless, mentally ill addicts with criminal histories.

Now most of these men & women are in poor health, underfed and unco-ordinated, and were trying to get well. BUT occasionally I found myself in the company of a true psychopath, a rapist, a murderer. Ever sit for two hours 1 on 1 interviewing a man who rapes old ladies tied to a chair, then sets them on fire to destroy trace evidence? I have. I can't really describe the difference, except to say there are a handful of people that truly made me feel that my life didn't mean $h!t to them except maybe the money or amusement they could get off me. Man or woman, big or small, there are some people that are truly dangerous. Get out, shoot for the heart, call the cops, whatever- you don't want to go toe-to-toe.

As for being jumped by a large man, well I am not training to defeat him hand-to-hand, I am training to stay alive, use surprise, fight dirty, get an opening, get away. 

Yes, given certain situations it is horse manure to say "I can take any man". But I can and will do whatever it takes to survive. Period.


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## arnisador (Mar 27, 2003)

> _Originally posted by RyuShiKan _
> *Most grown men, trained or untrained couldnt subdue such an adversary either. *



Yes, an excellent point--this is setting the standard very high. Certainly one must consider and train for the possibility but if that's the standard then a lot of people would fail.


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## James Kovacich (Mar 27, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Johnathan Napalm _
> *No legitimate instructor of women self defence would even pretend to present such ludicurous notion.
> 
> A legitimate self defence instructor would NEVER make the BS claim that he is going to teach a 120lb woman to defeat a 250 lb psychopathic socialpath.
> ...



Whose making false claims. My daughter is 16 and she is well on her way to proving you (and anyone else that thinks like that) wrong.

We are not making any claims or selling any secret techniques. Just stating the facts. There are many men who think they can fight, but really can't. Are you saying no small woman can beat any of them enough to make a safe getaway?

Maybe you should evaluate why you are in the martial arts. You don't seem to think that they work.


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## A.R.K. (Mar 27, 2003)

Posted by Jill,



> As for being jumped by a large man, well I am not training to defeat him hand-to-hand, I am training to stay alive, use surprise, fight dirty, get an opening, get away.





> Yes, given certain situations it is horse manure to say "I can take any man". But I can and will do whatever it takes to survive. Period.



You go girl  

People would really be suprised what they are capable of when the adrenaline starts to flow and your fighting for your life or the life of a loved one.  I'm not aware of any rule that states "well this will only work up to a certain height or weight of bad guy" or "well if he's crazy you might as well give up".

It's better to fight and die for what is right than to just give up and die for nothing.


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## Disco (Mar 27, 2003)

JN, PM you to find out what REAL fighters would teach?

I was under the impression that these forums were for sharing information and to assist fellow Martial Artists 

I'm still trying to figure out just what your attempting to accomplish.... You keep refering to a total worst case scenario, where I too admit that even many men would have a problem dealing with, to validate your viewpoint. There are no absolutes in this world when dealing with self defense and personal protection. I feel that when you make a generalization about females and their training, using that WCS as your guideline, your doing a disservice to all who view these forums looking for insite and direction. If you truly feel that most / all females are being taken, then please post your full rationale for your reasoning. 

When you seek to go private with your answers, RED Flags go up.


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## James Kovacich (Mar 27, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Mya Ryu Jitsu _
> 
> 
> It's better to fight and die for what is right than to just give up and die for nothing. [/B]



YOU KNOW IT!!


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## Johnathan Napalm (Mar 28, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Disco _
> *JN, PM you to find out what REAL fighters would teach?
> 
> I was under the impression that these forums were for sharing information and to assist fellow Martial Artists
> ...



Short answer to a bunch of philosophical entertainment

Red flag?  My a$$! I am not selling anything. I have no website to promote. I don't even promote my name here. (unlike some over the hill dead-ender    )

I'll tell you what, I would simply give any one who asks, the name of another member who teaches self defence (who really knows the subject at hand, unlike some fly-by-night, over the hill, dead-ender who is out to make a buck)  to talk to. You don't even have to talk to me. I couldn't care less one way or the other.


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## A.R.K. (Mar 28, 2003)

> I don't even promote my name here.



Can't blame you there....



> who really knows the subject at hand, unlike some fly-by-night, over the hill, dead-ender who is out to make a buck



And who here fits this rambling description?

I think this is a clear case of you putting your limitations on others.


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## Disco (Mar 28, 2003)

Just stated my opinion and asked for a simple clarification and 

HOUSTON WE HAVE LIFT OFF.........

I'd hate to see the response if someone accused you of something.


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## A.R.K. (Mar 28, 2003)

Disco, I knew you were over the hill....but I didn't know you 'flew by night'.


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## Disco (Mar 28, 2003)

Only if I can get those discount prices at the ticket counter:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


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## D.Cobb (Mar 29, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Johnathan Napalm _
> *The shortcoming inherented in tournaments is obvious. But everyone jumps on the bandwagon to piss on tournys, including those who have never fought in one in their whole life time.
> 
> Tournament competition is a useful training experience. None of you who "play" inside the safety of your dojangs/dojos know what an adrenaline rush can impact your ability to function.  Tournament gives young fighters the very few chances they have to experience the adrenaline rush (and how to deal with it) and the opportunity to engage unknown opponents.
> ...



I have never fought in a tournament! I have never wanted to! My martial arts journey is not about sport. 
I have nothing against tourny fighters, and I love to watch, but I have never felt the need to compete.
I have enough on my plate trying to better me, without trying to better someone else.
In our school, the advanced ranks wear protective equipment, and fight. No rules, no tip tap ****, no quarter given or expected.

We lose a lot of juniors when they happen to see the advanced classes going for it, I once left a school because I was expected to spar, and wanted to leave because, people kept getting upset at my lack of contact control. Of course I pulled my punches, but they always made contact, and they always hurt.

Hey if you want to compete, and it  makes you happy, then more power to you. As they say, whatever floats your boat!

--Dave


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## D.Cobb (Mar 29, 2003)

> _Originally posted by RyuShiKan _
> *Considering we spar full contact with bogu gear in my dojo and most of the tournaments outside my dojo are tippy-tap I dont get much of a rush.*




What is bogu gear?

--Dave:asian:


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## RyuShiKan (Mar 29, 2003)

> _Originally posted by D.Cobb _
> *What is bogu gear?
> 
> --Dave:asian: *



This is Bogu gear.


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## RyuShiKan (Mar 29, 2003)

A close up.


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## RyuShiKan (Mar 29, 2003)

A close up


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## DAC..florida (Mar 29, 2003)

I am 28 years old 6"2 and 240 lbs. I have been training in the martial arts since I was 7yrs. old, I have fought in ternaments and real life. I have won some and lost some, in my experience it doesnt matter how big,small,age,sex or weight you are, I have lost to smaller people and won against bigger people, I have also lost to a 95 lb. 18 year old female. I made the mistake of underestimating my oponent.

I see alot of people on this web site talk about real life scituations. Unless you work in security, law enforcement, corrections, bouncer or body guard how could you have that much experience. I'm not trying to offend anyone and I may have left out a couple careers.


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## Disco (Mar 29, 2003)

You most certainly did leave out some jobs.......

What about male ballet dancers.....huh!

Male hair dressers.....yeah huh!!

Cyber trolls..... OH YEAH!!!
  :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


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## Rich Parsons (Mar 29, 2003)

> _Originally posted by DAC..florida _
> *I am 28 years old 6"2 and 240 lbs. I have been training in the martial arts since I was 7yrs. old, I have fought in ternaments and real life. I have won some and lost some, in my experience it doesnt matter how big,small,age,sex or weight you are, I have lost to smaller people and won against bigger people, I have also lost to a 95 lb. 18 year old female. I made the mistake of underestimating my oponent.
> 
> I see alot of people on this web site talk about real life scituations. Unless you work in security, law enforcement, corrections, bouncer or body guard how could you have that much experience. I'm not trying to offend anyone and I may have left out a couple careers. *




DAC,

I know I have avoided this thread so far, yet on others, I have mentioned real life situations.  I would have to agree with your statment.

My experience for real life came from security and bouncing. 6+ years while I was going to college.

Maybe if people quoted a specific example of what they were doing and why, before the incident occurred then maybe you see where the experience comes from.

Have a Nice Day. 

:asian:


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## Johnathan Napalm (Mar 29, 2003)

> _Originally posted by D.Cobb _
> *I have never fought in a tournament! I have never wanted to! My martial arts journey is not about sport.
> I have nothing against tourny fighters, and I love to watch, but I have never felt the need to compete.
> I have enough on my plate trying to better me, without trying to better someone else.
> ...




DO you know what adrenaline stress response is? Have you experienced it?


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## Johnathan Napalm (Mar 29, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Disco _
> *Just stated my opinion and asked for a simple clarification and
> 
> HOUSTON WE HAVE LIFT OFF.........
> ...



You were asking for my motive. I just responded by stating that I have none and that to ensure that I wasn't soliciting for anything (unlike some dead-ender who try desperately to promote himself, shamelessly), I was going to only give reference to another member to whom you could discuss the topic.  That would clear any appearance of conflict of interest.

BTW, the "fly-by night, half baked operator , over the hill, dead ender", is not a reference to you.  Heck, I know precisely NOTHING about you. lol Didn't even know you exit, actually


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## DAC..florida (Mar 29, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Disco _
> *You most certainly did leave out some jobs.......
> 
> What about male ballet dancers.....huh!
> ...


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## Johnathan Napalm (Mar 29, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Quick Sand _
> *There are also a few throws/ take downs that are easier on a larger opponent becausae the smaller person has the advantage of a lower centre of gravity.
> 
> I'm not saying all throws and take downs but there are a few that don't take much strength, they just need to be done correctly.
> ...



lol  No beef necessary (unless in fried steak  )  If you go back to my posts, I stated that   "..1. *Most 120 lb person (man or woman)* would have a very tough time defeating a 250lb criminal....2. *Most MA instruction/lesson* that the typical 120lb housewife get, IS NOT sufficient to equip her to defeat a 250lb criminal. I would laugh at those McDojo lessons focusing on throwing your attackers around...."

Unfortunately you are correct that the average woman these days is not 120 lb.  

Nevertheless, experienced fighters all know that eventhough size is not the ultimate deciding factor, size has its advantage and a 120lb person (man or woman, trained or untrained) would have an extremely difficult time defeating a 250 lb psychopathic sociopath. It is has been proven time and time again. There is no dispute on this, except by those who are unware of the fact.  

Needless to say, you don't simply give up. That is absurd. Only an idiot would even bother to state that. (Obviously there are some here  lol )  

It is always the wannabe, phony instructors, half baked amateurs would advertise to teach a 120 lb person to go head butting against a 250 lb psychopathic sociopath.   Remember the ol saying ' the empty bucket makes more noise'? That is what it is.

Take a look at professional security details, they have all the firepower and resources. Do you think they would advocate head-on firefight with would be attackers?  Nope. Never. Only the idiots who watch too many Hollywood crap would think in terms of that. Same phenomena in the MA world. Only the incompetent, inexperienced phony instructors would advertise going buttheading with an attacker 2X your size.

And the argument of don't project your own weakness onto others, is nothing but childish outburst that has no bearing on the merit of the topics.  B/c you can use the same line of BS on the pros who work security details for State VIPs, and got LMAO by them.


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## Johnathan Napalm (Mar 29, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Jill666 _
> .....As for being jumped by a large man, well I am not training to defeat him hand-to-hand, I am training to stay alive, use surprise, fight dirty, get an opening, get away.
> 
> Yes, given certain situations it is horse manure to say "I can take any man". But I can and will do whatever it takes to survive. Period....



That's right.  But phony, self-anointed Masters are selling horse manure all over town and on the internet.


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## Johnathan Napalm (Mar 29, 2003)

> _Originally posted by DAC..florida _
> .....I see alot of people on this web site talk about real life scituations. Unless you work in security, law enforcement, corrections, bouncer or body guard how could you have that much experience. I'm not trying to offend anyone and I may have left out a couple careers. ...



How often do people in those professions have life and death  confrontation without backup? If they did, they didn't follow procedure.


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## Rich Parsons (Mar 29, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Johnathan Napalm _
> *How often do people in those professions have life and death  confrontation without backup? If they did, they didn't follow procedure. *



JN,

Bouncing, Many times only one a tthe door of for the small place. Not always back up available. Same for the lone security guard. Yes Police are a phone call away. Hmmm where is my cell or the nearest pay phone, Yes, 911, Yes my name is XYZ< Yes I need Help at, Yes My NAme is, IN the mean time you have been stabbed or shot or beaten.

There are cases where it does happen. Hmmm probably not every day. Yet when I was bouncing, From April through October, every Friday and Saturday I had at least one fight. Unless it was a full moon and then I had at least two a night. From May to September (* Summer *) I had on average 3 fights during the other five days a week. Now were they al life and death, Nope.
Yet even wit someone 100 yards away, they cannot get there to help you in time with multiple opponents and or weapons. Just from my experience. As for procedure, not everyone is a trained para military police officer, or ex-military security, they may not know procedure or have a procedure. You know how long it took me to train people that I needed at least one person to not run to the conflict and to call for the police or the back up.

Yet, how many people were doing jobs like mine in a city and metro area of 250,000 people. Probably only two or three, the rest all had headsets and trained teams and back numbers for back up. I even worked with some of them and assisted for security for concerts and bands. That was the light work 

So, JN I see your point, yet not all are with back up and not are all life and death. Yet from my limited experience, being out numbered, cut, shoot at, etc., does qualify as to me in my book as life and death. Yet, as I pointed out the number of people for the population was very small.

Good Points


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## A.R.K. (Mar 29, 2003)

Originally posted by JN,



> a 120lb person (man or woman, trained or untrained) would have an extremely difficult time defeating a 250 lb psychopathic sociopath.



I don't think anyone ever claimed that it would be easy, only that it can be done with skill and determination.  The oriental person is on average smaller in stature than many other cultures, yet the orient has been a hotbed of styles and systems with techniques that can be used, and have been used against a larger opponent.  It has been done by male and female time and again.

And again, psychopath and sociopath are the same thing.



> It is always the wannabe, phony instructors, half baked amateurs would advertise to teach a 120 lb person to go head butting against a 250 lb psychopathic sociopath.



Give us some examples of people who have done this....

You speak quite a bit about professionals, yet ignore the comments, views and experience from professionals here if they contradict your viewpoint.  Have you ever gone up against a 250 lbs mentally disturbed individual?  I have and so have several others here that I know of for a fact!  No one here is trying to give you a rough time, but if I or us disagree with you were going to say so and why we say so....from our experiences.

You underestimate the strength, will, and resoursfullness of a woman defending her life...or even worse, the life of her child.


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## A.R.K. (Mar 29, 2003)

> How often do people in those professions have life and death confrontation without backup? If they did, they didn't follow procedure.



All the time!  We don't normally patrol in two man units.  And quite often we need to intervene before BU arrives.  FHP for example may have BU 30 miles away at any given time.  We would like to have more Officers/Deputies/Troopers etc, but budgetary restrictions are what they are.


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## RyuShiKan (Mar 29, 2003)

Bouncing and bouncers. 

Most of the bars I have been in ( and that number is rather high) and have seen any sort of bouncing done was more often than not 2 or more bouncers knocking the stuffing out of some dumb guy that had the misfortune to drink too much and do or say something stupid. 
Additionally, most of the bouncers I have known have also more often than not been hotheads that like bouncing because it gives them an excuse to get in a fight.
Bouncers are supposed to keep stuff from happening however such is not always the case. I found bouncers to be rather unprofessional in their approach to handling many of the situations. 



Law Enforcement

I know of no state in America that doesnt strictly control Law Enforcement techniques used to subdue bad guys. 
I know several Police Officers in the US and they have said the techniques they are allowed to use are not always the best ones.


250lbs. Psychos.

I am not 250 lbs. and not a psycho and yet I know women trained and untrained they couldnt handle me in a real situation. I know women that might be able to handle some 250lbs psychokeyword is might.nobody knows the future.
To tell students if they train they can handle themselves in such a situation is a lie.
To tell students if they train they will be better prepared to handle a situation is more accurate.


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## Johnathan Napalm (Mar 29, 2003)

> _Originally posted by akja _
> *Whose making false claims. My daughter is 16 and she is well on her way to proving you (and anyone else that thinks like that) wrong.
> 
> We are not making any claims or selling any secret techniques. Just stating the facts. There are many men who think they can fight, but really can't. Are you saying no small woman can beat any of them enough to make a safe getaway?
> ...



If you haven't made any claims, then what the heck is your problem?  

In any case, please read my response to QuickSand above.  Save me the trouble of reposting the same reply.

But it is dissappointing to read someone who founded a new style and an instructor, and yet shares the illusion that somehow martial art can transform one person into some superbeing.  The experienced fighters would tell you that 





> _Originally posted by RyuShiKan _...Most grown men, trained or untrained couldnt subdue such an adversary either....


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## Johnathan Napalm (Mar 29, 2003)

> _Originally posted by RyuShiKan _
> 
> .....To tell students if they train they can handle themselves in such a situation is a lie.
> 
> To tell students if they train they will be better prepared to handle a situation is more accurate......




Now, that is the word of a real martial artist. 

The amateur knows about _everything_.

True master knows the _limitation_


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## A.R.K. (Mar 29, 2003)

RSK,

In regards to bouncers, it depends on the individual.  Some are run-of-the-mill and some are highly trained professionals.  Same with security or E.P.

You are generally correct with LEO D.T. academy training.  It is usually basic and state controlled.  However, in many areas advanced training may be available.  For example, at S.E.P.S.I. we are fortunate to have individuals such as Gracie, Horenstein, Blauer, Lambria, Hess, Boatman, Yadin etc come in a teach throughout the year.  And MA's training of some sort is always encouraged.



> I am not 250 lbs. and not a psycho and yet I know women trained and untrained they couldnt handle me in a real situation.



Perhaps..perhaps not.  No one can ever fully know till it's over.  However, you do have the correct mind set.

JN,



> But it is dissappointing to read someone who founded a new style and an instructor, and yet shares the illusion that somehow martial art can transform one person into some superbeing.



Still waiting for you to expound on examples of who these individuals are....


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## Johnathan Napalm (Mar 29, 2003)

MRJ or ZDW or DS, in case you haven't noticed, I have long ceased to respond to your posts.  Your posts are generally long on philosophy, short on reality and full of regurgitated selective bits and pieces of info that you twist around to support your claims.  Hardly worthy.

P.S. I am sure the Admin and mods are relieved that I chose this course of action. lol


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## Johnathan Napalm (Mar 29, 2003)

> _Originally posted by DAC..florida _
> *I am 28 years old 6"2 and 240 lbs. I have been training in the martial arts since I was 7yrs. old, I have fought in ternaments and real life. I have won some and lost some, in my experience it doesnt matter how big,small,age,sex or weight you are, I have lost to smaller people and won against bigger people, I have also lost to a 95 lb. 18 year old female. I made the mistake of underestimating my oponent.
> 
> I see alot of people on this web site talk about real life scituations. Unless you work in security, law enforcement, corrections, bouncer or body guard how could you have that much experience. I'm not trying to offend anyone and I may have left out a couple careers. *



In response to the first part, nothing is absolute. But the exception only reinforces the norm. Ever heard of the expressino, "The strongest horses are not always the winners, but that is the way professionals bet" ?  It is easier for me to just quote someone than to paraphase ...." 





> _Originally posted by RyuShiKan _
> ...250lbs. Psychos?To tell students if they train they can handle themselves in such a situation is a lie.
> To tell students if they train they will be better prepared to handle a situation is more accurate. ....



In regards to the second part, RSK also already provided a better response.

I do not see the point for me to talk about my life story.  (If you care, you can check out the Armpit pressure point thread). There is no point to go on the internet to argue, "I have done this, have you....blah blah blah." I have lived through some interesting times in some interesting places that is too problematic for me to explain to most people.


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## A.R.K. (Mar 29, 2003)

JN, 



> MRJ or ZDW or DS, in case you haven't noticed, I have long ceased to respond to your posts.



You responed last night, is that _long_  to you?  And if your unclear on the screen name it's in the upper left hand corner of the screen  



> Your posts are generally long on philosophy, short on reality and full of regurgitated selective bits and pieces of info that you twist around to support your claims. Hardly worthy.



Really?  Funny, since you only read about what I have done in real life, and continue to do on a daily basis.  Basically your just still peeved that I proved a bullet can't throw a man to the ground, thereby dashing a cherished and erroneous belief on your part.  You want to close your mind to information because of your grudge then be my guest.  

Your life is not my fault.

BTW, there are several questions you have yet to answer, simply an oversight I'm sure.


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## D.Cobb (Mar 29, 2003)

> _Originally posted by RyuShiKan _
> *This is Bogu gear. *



Thanks, we wear similar in our school.

--Dave

:asian:


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## D.Cobb (Mar 29, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Johnathan Napalm _
> *DO you know what adrenaline stress response is? Have you experienced it? *



Hell yeah! I know what it is and I still have trouble dealing with it. I was a security guard for nearly 10 years, and the school where I train, uses reality type drills and exercises at every opportunity. My instructor needs to know we can make it work, before we get promoted.

--Dave:asian:


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## A.R.K. (Mar 29, 2003)

D. Cobb,

There is ALOT to be said for adrenaline stress response drills or reality based senerios.   Ever been able to use the branching live fire F.A.T.S. before?  We usually have recruits leaving the range after several senerios and go lose their lunches because of the stress.  But it's very good intensive training.  We have one system that will fire back at you [paint pellets] stressing proper use of cover tactics.

Beats standing there shooting paper


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## SteelShadow (Mar 29, 2003)

I wasnt going to respond to this thread simply because it seemed to be quickly turning into a flame.But after all the talk of security law enforcement and such.I had to say something.I was a bail enforcement agent for 4 yrs.For those that dont know what that is its a bounty hunter.I have been in some very hairy situations.And I am very glad for the martial training I have .It has saved my but more than once.I have been Shot once and ive been stabbed twice.Ive been cut open and even smashed in the head.By people both smaller and larger than me.It is not impossible for someone to survive an attack by a much larger and deranged person.I have the scars and medical records to prove it.Im not big im 6 ft 3 and i weigh a wopping 185lbs.And ive had people ask me if ive had all that happen how can I say martial arts helped me my answer is always the same.Im still here aint I.

JN you keep using refrence to fly by night instructors yet noone on this thread has said anything about being an all incompising founder of a new unbeatable style.They have however responded with the truth a 120lbs women with good training and in a desperate fight for there life can stand up to a 250lbs lunitic man maybe they couldnt beat them all out. But if they keep there wits and have had some good training there chances of being able to escape with there life is greatly improved.

just my two cents worth.........


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## RyuShiKan (Mar 30, 2003)

A few years back I started working on translating Sun Tzus Art of War from Chinese to English because I didnt care for the translation I had read previously.
This is an on going project for me that I do for fun.OK Im weird.
One thing good about it is I get to study the book more in depthly as I translate because I have to really think of what it says and how to relay it into English with the same nuance.

One passage I like and that may apply here is this one:

When you engage in conflict and know only yourself but not your opponent you can only hope to have a 50% chance of victory.


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## DAC..florida (Mar 30, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Johnathan Napalm _
> *How often do people in those professions have life and death  confrontation without backup? If they did, they didn't follow procedure. *





Policies and proceedures are there to protect you and in a perfect world back up would always be right around the corner, but we dont live in a perfect world and to get back up you must be able to get to your radio to call for it. You must think that LEO personell are able to see  everything before it happens and have eyes in back of there heads, I'm here to tell you that even your most elite LEO personell can be suprised or taken off guard. Not every traffic stop is that simple and you never know who you could be dealing with, not every inmate in jail or prison is completely sane and sometimes even veteran officers can get sucker punched or jumped on. Trust me when I say that this happens everyday even if your doing everything by the book you could be dealing with a syko or someone who is on drugs and dont feel no pain, but you have to remember that these people are still human and braking bones will stop them.


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## arnisador (Mar 30, 2003)

> _Originally posted by RyuShiKan _
> *A few years back I started working on translating Sun Tzus Art of War from Chinese to English*



How different is the Chinese of "Art of War" from modern Chinese? It must be quite a task!


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## Disco (Mar 30, 2003)

RYU, very daunting task, I applaud you just on your courage to undertake it. And no your not weird, a little strange mabey but not weird.:rofl: 

When you stated the concept of only knowing yourself and not your enemy = 50% chance for victory, I understand the inference for the constrants of actual war between nations, but in your estimation, does or can that statement be relavent to our everyday lifestyle. When we have an incounter with someone, it is most likely with a stranger. 

Thanks in advance for your reply... :asian:


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## Johnathan Napalm (Mar 30, 2003)

> _Originally posted by SteelShadow _
> .....JN you keep using refrence to fly by night instructors yet noone on this thread has said anything about being an all incompising founder of a new unbeatable style.They have however responded with the truth a 120lbs women with good training and in a desperate fight for there life can stand up to a 250lbs lunitic man maybe they couldnt beat them all out. But if they keep there wits and have had some good training there chances of being able to escape with there life is greatly improved.
> 
> just my two cents worth.........




Much to my dissappointmet (not really actually), all of you who claimed to work in Law enforcement, security, bouncing, yada yada yada, for how long and how long and so forth and so forth, NOT one of you have even mentioned the first principle of security!  Shame on all of you. Some of you ought to be fired from your positions if you were actually IN those positions at all.

The most successful bouncers DO NOT get into fights!  Sheeze!  Any one who has been in the bouncing business successfully, would tell you that the NUMBER 1 rule is De-escalating the situation!  Your job is to stop the confrontation from happening.  No business owner would give a hoot about your ability to pound the trouble makers into a bloody pulp.  No, dumb ***! You are not hired to create lawsuits for the owner. You are hired to PREVENT problems from happening in the first place!.

As for LEO. LMAO at those who claim to be LEO here.  You ought to be fired for incompetency.  Only the dumbest of the rookies would charge right into a situation without sufficient backup.  You have been watching too much Hollywood BS.  Every experienced COP will tell you his first and foremost concern is to go home alive at the end of his shift.  It is always the phony BS instructors who would be talking about how to clear a house room by room ALONE!  LMAO.  Every experienced cop will tell you DON'T DO THAT  you DUMB ***!  Get a team of back up!   As for Cops fighting criminals in hand to hand combat using MA.... LMAO  Riiiightttttttt  Watching too much TV again, huh?  Just how did you graduate from the academy?  

 *Even the best of the best, who work security detail for States VIPs, would take RISK AVOIDANCE as the cardinal principle of operation.  The FIRST RULE is DON"T TAKE the Unnecessary RISK!

Only 2 types who advocate the stupidity of resorting to force against a psychopatic sociopath 2X his/her size.  The first type is the inexperienced newbies who do NOT know anything about the concept of RISK.  They are what you called "all brawl and no brain".  They will learn, if they live long enough.      The second type is the phony half baked promoters who are pathetically patronizing the women and children by selling them a false sense of security, ie selling what Jill put as "horse manure" and what RSK called " a lie" .


Life is precious. There are OTHER options besides resorting to using force against a 250 lb psycho, putting your life and health at risk consequently!!     It is called RISK AVOIDANCE!!!


Personal security is about SITUATION AWARENESS!   THe first rule of preventing rape is TO AVOID Getting into HIGH RISK SITUATIONS !!  Not the horse manure about how to defeat a 250lb psycho!  Sheeze! Using force is the last of the last resort!  Every genuine professional would tell you that!  Always be aware of your situation. Take all necessary precaution and preemption. Do not assume unnecessary risk.  ONLY when all other options are lost then you have no choice but to use force, taking a great risk to your health and life.  

Moreover, EVERY genuine professional would teach you to use all sort of weapons (household goods or security devices such as OC spray etc), to put the odds in your favour.   NOT one responsible professional instructor would advocate the horse manure been peddled here about using bare hand MA to taggle a 250 psycho!  

*

To go straight to counting on resorting to using force, is plain stupid!  You are betting the health and life of the women on an uncertain outcome!  You are giving her a false sense of security. That is immoral and criminal!  Not to mention incompetence! 

Sheeze !  The degree of ignorance of these self appointed ''masters", founders (or flounders are probably more accurate) is mind boggling!


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## arnisador (Mar 30, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Johnathan Napalm _
> *To go straight to counting on resorting to using force, is plain stupid! *



That's probably why no one has been doing it in this thread.


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## Johnathan Napalm (Mar 30, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Mya Ryu Jitsu _
> *JN,
> 
> 
> ...



Oh please!  You proved squat. If anything, that Gun thread proves beyond a doubt what kind of phony operator you are. If I were you, I would wish no one would look up that thread ever.  BTW, is that why you changed your name half way thru that threat?  LOL

I chose to ignore your quetions because you are nothing but a waste of time.  

Don't stoop that low as to prove words in my mouth.


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## SteelShadow (Mar 30, 2003)

I will agree jn that going home saftly is one of the formost thoughts .And I will even agree that trying to deescalate a situation is far better than use of force.But on the opisite side of the same coin It not always possible to do that.And in the situations that cant be taken care of peacfully as im sure any member here will agree you better be able to handle yourself.The moto of my system is simple but very true.

It Is Better To Have The Training And Not Need It Than Need It And Not Have It...........


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## GouRonin (Mar 30, 2003)




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## arnisador (Mar 30, 2003)

Please, keep the discussion polite, respectful, and professional.

-Arnisador
-MT Admin-


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## Rich Parsons (Mar 30, 2003)

> _Originally posted by RyuShiKan _
> *Bouncing and bouncers.
> 
> Most of the bars I have been in ( and that number is rather high) and have seen any sort of bouncing done was more often than not 2 or more bouncers knocking the stuffing out of some dumb guy that had the misfortune to drink too much and do or say something stupid.
> ...



I agree, that many places have multiple bouncers, yet I jsut wanted to point out, that things do happen when you are alone, or without backup.

Nice description of Bouncers. 

Have A Nice Day, I know I have had one


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## Rich Parsons (Mar 30, 2003)

JN,


Talking them down.

Yes of course, I had to talk many down. I also got many to leave while they were calling me every name in the book, because it did not matter. Avoidance is the issue, yes I agree. Yet there are times, it just cannot happen. 

If I was such a Jerk as to just start a fight, then I would have been in the police station longer then I was, and spent actual time in the local jail for assault and or other charges.

Did it get tiring? and did I want to quit? Somedays yes. Yet there were many times I could sit back and study for school and get paid. I could also get hours working around  my school schedule. For me it was a means to an ends, to getting want I truly wanted.


(* Note: See we can have a discussion. *)


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## RyuShiKan (Mar 31, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Johnathan Napalm _
> *The most successful bouncers DO NOT get into fights!  Sheeze!  Any one who has been in the bouncing business successfully, would tell you that the NUMBER 1 rule is De-escalating the situation!  Your job is to stop the confrontation from happening.  No business owner would give a hoot about your ability to pound the trouble makers into a bloody pulp.  No, dumb ***! You are not hired to create lawsuits for the owner. You are hired to PREVENT problems from happening in the first place!. *



EXACTLY!!

If I had my own place I sure as heck wouldnt hire some half-cocked hothead with an insecurity complex that needed to prove himself at the drop of a hat.


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## Johnathan Napalm (Mar 31, 2003)

> _Originally posted by arnisador _
> *That's probably why no one has been doing it in this thread. *



Sure... Especially now that after I have pointed it out.... duh!  

Ever heard of the expression, "Success has a thousand fathers while failure is a bastard" ?


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## Bod (Mar 31, 2003)

> _JN writes: _I do not see the point for me to talk about my life story. (If you care, you can check out the Armpit pressure point thread).


Like the fool I am I just read your life story on the armpit pressure point thread.

It was not even entertaining fiction.

Because endless troll/anti-troll flame wars are disruptive to a discussion forum I am particularly tolerant of trolls, as a search through my posts here and on e-budo will show, but I have finally had enough, and I can't keep quiet any longer. I've had enough of you calling into question every posters credentials and credibility, while never, _ever_, giving me a reason to believe anything you say.

So I am calling you out. Tell us what your name is, where you are from (the unspecified Oriental village you speak of), what you do, and how old you are.

I am not asking for verifiable facts. Make the answers up if you have to. Just come up with three out of four of the above and I promise I will not make it my business to hound you wherever you wish to lurk.


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## Johnathan Napalm (Mar 31, 2003)

I have turned down better men (people I respect) such as Yilisifu, Chufeng and Yiliquan1. What makes you think I would care what you think?  LMFAO....

I have lived a life that you cannot even imagine. And I am only in my 30's.   LOL. What do you think I have or care to prove to you?    lol   Do I care whether you believe my life story? Hell NO! I have already lived it!  I never even wanted to talk about it, until Yiliquan1 dragged it out of me.

Posters whose credential I questioned, are b/c their assertions have holes in them, their claims are bogus, their facts are wrong.


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## Johnathan Napalm (Mar 31, 2003)

> _Originally posted by RyuShiKan _
> *A few years back I started working on translating Sun Tzus Art of War from Chinese to English because I didnt care for the translation I had read previously.
> This is an on going project for me that I do for fun.OK Im weird.
> One thing good about it is I get to study the book more in depthly as I translate because I have to really think of what it says and how to relay it into English with the same nuance.
> ...



From the original text (written in classical Chinese) or one that has been translated into modern Chinese?


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## James Kovacich (Mar 31, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Johnathan Napalm _
> *I have turned down better men (people I respect) such as Yilisifu, Chufeng and Yiliquan1. What makes you think I would care what you think?  LMFAO....
> 
> I have lived a life that you cannot even imagine. And I am only in my 30's.   LOL. What do you think I have or care to prove to you?    lol   Do I care whether you believe my life story? Hell NO! I have already lived it!  I never even wanted to talk about it, until Yiliquan1 dragged it out of me.
> ...



You don't respect me?


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## Infight (Mar 31, 2003)

Well i wont enter in this personal discussion, i think it will lead to no point!

             My point is, i dont believe any girl has any chance against a bigger man, no matter MArtist or not, once no way out, shes lost, mainly if she trains some striking technique, there is no chance of some girl lighter make some bruise to some big man, never saw anything of this happen, even in newspaper, on TV Journal or anyplace. And im sure no girl could go away from me, but thats cause i do MA, but even a simple scum is unbeatable by a girl.


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## arnisador (Mar 31, 2003)

Factor in the element of surprise for starters, if the attacker doesn't expect a defense! We're not talking about a boxing match here.


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## Johnathan Napalm (Mar 31, 2003)

> _Originally posted by akja _
> *You don't respect me?   *



I respect that you are an honest and decent man , as well as an upstanding martial artist and instructor, who has a strong confidence in your skills and your art.   :asian:

There are issues that we disagree, but that is expected. As reasonable people can and do disagree on issues.


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## RyuShiKan (Apr 1, 2003)

I am using both versions inorder to try and understand thr differences, if any, between the Classical and Modern and also to better translate it to English..........hance the slowness in getting it done.


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## A.R.K. (Apr 1, 2003)

Lots of very good input here over the last few days  

JN, You may have any opinion you like in regards to me and my viewpoint.  I would encourage anyone interested in firearms to read that locked thread and the various links we both provided.  I stand behind what I said therein.  It is based on two decades of LEO experience and instruction.  You have questioned my credentials with inuendos but never once with fact.  I am who I have said I am and have done what I have said I've done.  I have put it out there, you have not.  I have provided sources for verification, you have not.  If you want to believe a little handgun bullet will knock a man down, when even rifle bullets don't, please be my guest.  If you want to tell women they have no chance against a man, please be my guest.  I WILL tell women they have a chance and teach them how to exploit opportunities and keep a calm head.  I will teach them what they are capable of and how to maximize their options.  I don't write them off as you have seem to do.  Far to many real-world examples destroy your position.

You have used terms such as 'fly-by-night' in regards to posters who do not share your opinion....without backing up your allegation.

You have used other disparaging remarks on posters experience and credentials...without backing them up with reason or evidence.

You 'just not liking someone' doesn't make them bad or wrong.  If you don't think I'm who I say I am....please list your *facts*  why.  What do you *know*  for a *fact*  about me, or several other posters that leads you to the conclusions that you post?  And again, just because you 'say so' doesn't make it fact.  

Can a 120 lbs woman step into a boxing ring against a 250 lbs mentally disturbed man and have a good shot at victory...probaby not.  Can a woman in a life and death situation where her life or the live's of her children are on the line have success...yes!  Especially if she keeps her wits, uses naturally occuring weapons and has even a periphreal amount of knowledge on where and when to strike.  Since woman HAVE been victorious over men in these instances...your point is mute and unrealistic.  If you question me and my teaching methods...it is out of ignorance because you have no first hand knowledge of what I teach or what I know.  

You are putting your limitations on me....and I don't accept them.  If you would like to discuss in detail any particular area with courtesy and politeness I will be most happy to discourse with you.  If you just want to continue trolling...your on your own.  I think most posters here realize what is what and who is who.  Have a wonderful day and I truly hope we can diologue on topics such as this and others, here and in other threads.

:asian:


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## James Kovacich (Apr 1, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Johnathan Napalm _
> *I respect that you are an honest and decent man , as well as an upstanding martial artist and instructor, who has a strong confidence in your skills and your art.   :asian:
> 
> There are issues that we disagree, but that is expected. As reasonable people can and do disagree on issues. *



Thanx buddy! You know a lot of times I re-read my posts the next day and I say I should have said it differantly.


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## Johnathan Napalm (Apr 1, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Mya Ryu Jitsu _
> *Lots of very good input here over the last few days
> 
> JN, You may have any opinion you like in regards to me and my viewpoint.  I would encourage anyone interested in firearms to read that locked thread and the various links we both provided.  I stand behind what I said therein.  It is based on two decades of LEO experience and instruction.  You have questioned my credentials with inuendos but never once with fact.  I am who I have said I am and have done what I have said I've done.  I have put it out there, you have not.  I have provided sources for verification, you have not.  If you want to believe a little handgun bullet will knock a man down, when even rifle bullets don't, please be my guest.  If you want to tell women they have no chance against a man, please be my guest.  I WILL tell women they have a chance and teach them how to exploit opportunities and keep a calm head.  I will teach them what they are capable of and how to maximize their options.  I don't write them off as you have seem to do.  Far to many real-world examples destroy your position.
> ...



Your lies and distortion NEVER end.  You want to bring up the Gun threat? Fine. Love to.

Your lies:

1. You lied about the 9mm being more lethal than the 45.

Fact: Every one knows that the 45 is proven in battles for over 90 years. 1 shot 1 kill. This is even before the hollowpoint was invented.  

You lied in asserting that the 9mm is better b/c you do "2 taps to the chest and 1 to the head"  LMAO!   That is the dumbest argument!!  With the 45, you only need 1 shot to the torso! Dumbass!

2. You lied about the 9mm being the selection of choice by LEO and military.

FACT:  In the military, SOCOM (Special Orperation Command) uses the 45. The elite Delta Commando, uses the 45.   In LEO, the elite US Marshal Special Operation Group uses the 45. The FBI SWAT team uses the 45. The FBI HRT (Hostage Rescue Team) uses the 45. The HRT is called in for jobs that are too difficult even for the SWAT.  The LAPD "D' Platoon SWAT team uses the 45. Words on the street is if the "D" Platoon uses it, you can bet your life on it too.  THere are a whole list of counties and PD that use ythe 45.  

When it comes CRITICAL MISSIONS, the elite go with the 45!

3. You deliberately attempted to mislead the readers by lying that it was a bad thing that one PD in PA has decline in qualification after switching from the 9 to the 40. When in fact, that only proves that the 40 is MORE powerful than the 9mm and hence requires more training to be proficient! Proven another BS of yours that the 40 is not more powerful than the 9mm.

4. You shamelessly attempt to mislead readers by asserting that shot by a 12 gauge is not lethal.  You cited a case, but deliberately omitted the mitigating details of that case.  LMAO!  Anyone who knows anything about firearms know that within effective range, a torso shot with a 12 gauge OO buck shots, will kick a gapping wound in you or CHOP your freaking limbs off!  Gosh the stupidity!  I don't know how many gun owners would LMAO at your ignorance!  BTW, why do the guy walking point always carry a SHOTGUN, huh? Sheeze!  

5. You lied about the lethality of many types of ammo, by misleadingly claiming that only ammo that penetrate 12" in gelatin tests would be effective.

FACTS: The 357 SIG, the 130g 1300FPS 40, the ISP load, ALL proven to deliver ONE SHOT STOP in hundreds and hundreds of police shooting cases reported over 20 years by many police departments, the US Border patrols. None of these meet your regurgutated 12" penetration mandate. 

6. You lied about only effective shot is vital organ shot.

FACT: Gelatin test by the government PROVED that the ISP load CLEARLY tore aortas without actually hitting it.
And hundreds and hundreds of coroner reports where ONE SHOT STOP   without hitting vital organs.

7. You lied about Col Hackworth by falsely accusing him of hidden agenda.

FaCT: You have no basis nor proof. You got nothing, but your filthy mouth in your futile attempt to smear America's Most Decorated War Hero currently still living.   www.hackworth.com    Shame on you!  Truly pathetic!

8. You lied about the battlefield reports on the superiority of the 45 over the 9mm.  

9. You lied about the effectiveness the 130g 1300fps 40, by making the ludicruous claim (in doing so made you the biggest moron in the firearm world) that it wouldn't shoot a camera light off the table. LMAO!  How stupid you want to present yourself? IS anyone buying this moronic BS? that an ammo that shoot a wound in you that not only KILL you instantly but would make the coroner wander if the bullet had exploded inside your body, CANNOT shoot a camera light off the table?  LMAO!!  Gee the idiocy of this guy?  Were you drunk that night when you post this trash?

10. Your credential.  HAHAHAHAHAHAH  LMAO!  Your first moniker was Zhou Da Wei (sp). Among the heavy weights of MT, ZDW is synonymous to "someone who makes bogus credential claim and refuses to back it up"  LMAO. Remember the line "The guy has just pulled a Zhou Da Wei" ? LOL   You claimed to have a doctorate degree. Upon being pressed (as you cannot fake this) you changed the story to it was an honorary degree awarded by, get this, A SAUDI PRINCE!!  hahahahaahah!  Yeah right!!  Honorary degrees are awarded DIRECTLY by the institutions!   

Since the moniker Zhou Da Wei (Sp) really sucks. I guess it was time to do what every con man does, come up with a new moniker.   BTW, Zhou Da Wei is just a Chinese moniker for Shultz, David. 


AS for the rest of the credential, LMAO. Sure 8th Dan 9 th Dan of some Pangai-noon martial art...   Yeah IMPRESSIVE! And  KRAV MAGA, the K-Mart/711 of Martial art. Everyone and anyone can get a certification for Krav Maga.  If you tell them you are an instructor, HELLO KRAV MAGA INSTRUCTOR CERT is on the way, all for a fee and a short workshop!  

I have always heard that if you need instant credentials in a hurry, then get your Krav Maga credential right away, then check out in the Soldier of Fortunes mag ad by people who claim to be IDF special forces teaching KNIFE fighting, gun disarm, counter terrorism blah blah blah. A small investment and a short weekend workshop, you get all the certs and claims of credential you need, get this, TO START your own school!! LMAO !  Obviously, someone has gone farther and founded his own style!  


*  I don't have a problem with people holding wrong opinions, or opinions different from mine.  I don't even have problem with people NOT liking me or  criticise me.  I would still respect the person as a genuine person, if the person is an honest and decent person. What I have nothing but utter contempt for, is a spineless scumbag with no integrity what so ever. A liar is not a man. *  So, ask yourself, "Am I a scumbag? Am I a liar?"  lol


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## A.R.K. (Apr 1, 2003)

You are quite emotional aren't you?  And not very accurate.  Let's take a look;



> You lied about the 9mm being more lethal than the 45.



I've continually asserted that neither is lethal as far as being absolutes.  I believe in my professional opinion that they are relatively the same, and have stated so.  What you hit i.e. vital organ, CNS etc is far more important that what you use.  I have both and have said so.  I feel comfortable with both and have said so.



> Fact: Every one knows that the 45 is proven in battles for over 90 years. 1 shot 1 kill. This is even before the hollowpoint was invented.



First off, both the 9mm & .45 are 'battle proven'.  The 9mm for a longer period.  1 shot 1 kill is for those that watch to much TV.  To believe this is....well silly in handgun terms.  Nobody teaches shoot only once with any handgun caliber.  I can't believe anyone seriously thinks 1 shot with any caliber is all you need.  I am starting to question your mental faculties.



> You lied in asserting that the 9mm is better b/c you do "2 taps to the chest and 1 to the head" LMAO! That is the dumbest argument!! With the 45, you only need 1 shot to the torso! Dumbass!



This is false.  My original comment on the 2/chest and 1 head is that this is taught to and used as a motto by some SF's units as well as SWAT for when the perp is believed to be wearing armour.  Many people have been shot multiple times with a .45 in the chest and NOT been stopped.  This is fact that cannot be denied by any knowledgable person.  I particuarly question the 'dumbass' flame...I thought this against the rules of this site.



> You lied about the 9mm being the selection of choice by LEO and military.



No I did not.  You are thinking exclusively USA, there are special units outside the US that prefer 9mm.  .45 is really a US round and is not widely used outside the USA by other nations.



> You deliberately attempted to mislead the readers by lying that it was a bad thing that one PD in PA has decline in qualification after switching from the 9 to the 40. When in fact, that only proves that the 40 is MORE powerful than the 9mm and hence requires more training to be proficient! Proven another BS of yours that the 40 is not more powerful than the 9mm.



It takes far more control with a larger more powerful caliber.  I never said the .40 was less powerful...only that in real life, at handgun power levels the point is mute.  Once again it is where you hit them that counts far, far, far, far above what they are hit with.  A 1mm larger bullet traveling at similar velocity and sectional density is hardly worth getting exited about   



> You shamelessly attempt to mislead readers by asserting that shot by a 12 gauge is not lethal.



Nope, wrong again.  I did say that people have been shot with a shotgun and NOT die or even fall down.  This is fact and cannot be disputed in the real world that is.



> You lied about the lethality of many types of ammo, by misleadingly claiming that only ammo that penetrate 12" in gelatin tests would be effective.



Nope    But I did say that underpenatrating ammo is unwise such as Magsafe and Glazer.



> FACTS: The 357 SIG, the 130g 1300FPS 40, the ISP load, ALL proven to deliver ONE SHOT STOP in hundreds and hundreds of police shooting cases reported over 20 years by many police departments, the US Border patrols.



Well, I hate to break this to you...the .357sig has not been around for 20 years.  Nor do I believe it has had 'hundreds and hundreds' of shootings.  Were is your documentation for this?  And here we go again with the One Stop Shot nonsence that doesn't exist in the real world.




> FaCT: You have no basis nor proof. You got nothing, but your filthy mouth in your futile attempt to smear America's Most Decorated War Hero currently still living. www.hackworth.com Shame on you! Truly pathetic!



Your rambling here.  And flaming, hmm I thought that was also against the rules.  Not only did I disagree with his stance on the Beretta, so did many other military commanders and troops.  I pointed out the source data for this...you ingnored it. 



> You lied about Col Hackworth by falsely accusing him of hidden agenda



I disagreed with him on his conclusions.  What hidden agenda did I accuse him of?  



> 9. You lied about the effectiveness the 130g 1300fps 40, by making the ludicruous claim (in doing so made you the biggest moron in the firearm world) that it wouldn't shoot a camera light off the table.



More name calling and flames..your on a roll.  To bad your not accurate.  There are no 130 .40 bullets.  And the load I was refering to was the Magsafe Agent load which is roughly 85grains at 1800 fps.  And it wasn't a light it was a polaroid camera that took two shots to knock it off the table.  It's on video...wanna copy?  

I'll post more later after dinner.  I think,and so do others that your bi-polar.  I feel sorry for you.


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## Johnathan Napalm (Apr 1, 2003)

LMAO!  *Perfect example* of what I posted earlier as "...Your posts are generally long on philosophy, short on reality and full of regurgitated selective bits and pieces of info that you twist around to support your claims......"

I can add another post of 10 more lies from MRJ, Zhou Da WEi/ Schultz David , if I care to reply to bunch of trash you just posted.

You are a sad case of an over the hill, dead ender, trying desperately to promote your little name.

Insulting me would not help your case. Your past posts sank you. 


You Bogus Credential results in views on firearms that makes you a laughing stock of the community.  You are reduced to lies and distortions. Hard to get away from the lies you posted in the gun thread, no matter how hard you are trying here.  It is a good feature of this forum that you cannot go back edit your past posts.

How can you expect anyone to ever take you seriously, after all the ludicurous trash you posted at the Gun Thread and those posts about your CREDENTIAL your posted under Zhao Da Wei before that moniker became a laughing stock ?


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## Johnathan Napalm (Apr 1, 2003)

Oh yeah. Sorry about that. That was 135g 1300 fps 40 . Duh   Typo.


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## Johnathan Napalm (Apr 1, 2003)

MRJ, ZHOU DA WEi/ Schultz David

Your pathetic attempt at distorting the facts only serves to highlight your lack of integrity and what a half baked, fly by night, amateurish wannabe "flounder" of a fake art that you really are.

You see,

1. You tried desperately in a pathetic but futile attempt to mislead readers into the false belief that somehow this is about a grudge over bullet knocking power, while the * TRUTH is you are sored over the fact that you have been uncovered as a fake phony wannabe firearm expert that have posted one post after another of erroneous trash.*  Trash is trash. Trying to dress it up as from "sources" or with "credential"(albeit fake ones) still does not change the fact that it is trash.

2. You tried desperately in a pathetic but futile attempt to mislead readers into the false belief that somehow I said smaller women have no chance, while the TRUTH is: 




> _Originally posted by Johnathan Napalm _
> *Much to my dissappointmet (not really actually), all of you who claimed to work in Law enforcement, security, bouncing, yada yada yada, for how long and how long and so forth and so forth, NOT one of you have even mentioned the first principle of security!  Shame on all of you. Some of you ought to be fired from your positions if you were actually IN those positions at all.
> 
> ........As for LEO. LMAO at those who claim to be LEO here.  You ought to be fired for incompetency.  Only the dumbest of the rookies would charge right into a situation without sufficient backup.  You have been watching too much Hollywood BS.  Every experienced COP will tell you his first and foremost concern is to go home alive at the end of his shift.  It is always the phony BS instructors who would be talking about how to clear a house room by room ALONE!  LMAO.  Every experienced cop will tell you DON'T DO THAT  you DUMB ***!  Get a team of back up!   As for Cops fighting criminals in hand to hand combat using MA.... LMAO  Riiiightttttttt  Watching too much TV again, huh?  Just how did you graduate from the academy?
> ...


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## A.R.K. (Apr 1, 2003)

Lets take a further look shall we at your shotgun style accusations...



> Since the moniker Zhou Da Wei (Sp) really sucks.



Taking a shot at my original screen name...hmmm, that is really mature and helps you make your point    I renamed my system at the suggestion of my Sensei, Grandmaster Jack 'Pappasan' Stern.  I changed my screen name with the assistance of the administrators, in fact they did it for me.  




> LOL You claimed to have a doctorate degree. Upon being pressed (as you cannot fake this) you changed the story to it was an honorary degree awarded by, get this, A SAUDI PRINCE!! hahahahaahah! Yeah right!! Honorary degrees are awarded DIRECTLY by the institutions!



Thank you for your concern, but I do have a Doctorate in Philosophy.  At the recommendation of a Saudi Prince a college in Deleware awarded my this honor.  It is as legite as they come.  Your opinion of it is of little consequence to me  



> And KRAV MAGA, the K-Mart/711 of Martial art. Everyone and anyone can get a certification for Krav Maga



Never claimed any certification in Krav Maga.  I have studied it under Moti Horenstein though who was taught by Dennis Hanover who was taught by Krav Maga's founder.  Another inaccurate attempt to take a cheap shot.  



> You are a sad case of an over the hill, dead ender, trying desperately to promote your little name.



And ANOTHER cheap shot.  Ok, what makes me 'over the hill'?  A dead ender?  I'm 'desperately' trying to promote my name?  Your the only one actually using my real name here....what's your real name?




> You Bogus Credential results in views on firearms that makes you a laughing stock of the community.



And your proof that my credentials are bogus?  You don't have any...because they are solid and have been attested to by others on this board, several times.  People who actually know me personally, not someone in internet land *creating*  works of fiction because he is mad at me.




> Hard to get away from the lies you posted in the gun thread, no matter how hard you are trying here.



I'm trying to get away from it?  Seems as if I brought it up again and encouraged people to not only view it..but read both your links as well as mine.  Yeah I can see how you could get mixed up here    




> Your pathetic attempt at distorting the facts only serves to highlight your lack of integrity and what a half baked, fly by night, amateurish wannabe "flounder" of a fake art that you really are.



Wow, do you feel better now :shrug:  Care to back any of this up with facts?  Hmmm, I thought flaming was against the rules  



> You tried desperately in a pathetic but futile attempt to mislead readers into the false belief that somehow I said smaller women have no chance,



I think everyone her knows your views on women...and mine.

Anything else you'd like to go into?  I think your signature line speaks volumes as to your thinking process......


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## A.R.K. (Apr 1, 2003)

It would seem that you either don't read posts fully or ignore them altogether.  So I will quote something from Arnistor from earlier...



> Please, keep the discussion polite, respectful, and professional



I'm sure all your previous posts were merely an oversite.  If you feel the need to flame me further...you have my email.  Feel free to use it.


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## Bob Hubbard (Apr 1, 2003)

*Admin Warning: 


Keep the conversation polite and respectful.

Failure to do so will result in this thread being locked.

*


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## A.R.K. (Apr 1, 2003)

Kaith,

I just spoke with a couple of admin/mods in the chatroom about the situation.  I will not be responding to anything JN posts from this point on.  Peace and long life to him :asian:


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## arnisador (Apr 1, 2003)

We always advise that if one is bothered by another member, report post as appropriate but also ignore that member. There is an ignore option that will automatically delete all posts by a given user(s)--we encourage members to use this filtering mechanism.

-Arnisador
-MT Admin-


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## D.Cobb (Apr 2, 2003)

> _Originally posted by RyuShiKan _
> *OK Im weird.
> *



Um, OK I agree....... 



--Dave

:rofl: :rofl:


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## DAC..florida (Apr 3, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Johnathan Napalm _
> *LMAO!  Perfect example of what I posted earlier as "...Your posts are generally long on philosophy, short on reality and full of regurgitated selective bits and pieces of info that you twist around to support your claims......"
> 
> I can add another post of 10 more lies from MRJ, Zhou Da WEi/ Schultz David , if I care to reply to bunch of trash you just posted.
> ...







Jonathan napalm,

You sure can shovel alot of B.S.!
You make alot of claims about people wich you have never met, you also use alot of words like like dumb a## and fake how can you back up those claims jn.
In aug. of 2000 I met Mya Ru Jitsu at my corrections academy, he was my defensive tactics and firearm instructor and since aug. of 2000 he has also been my sensai and I can honestly say that he is the real deal and not a fake. can you?

During that gun site I asked you how many F.B.I agents or special foces / L.E.O. you have trained with and you still have not responded?

I do agree that descalating the scituation is always the best answer, and going home safe is the number one goal, but if you go back in this site and actually read the posts you will see that we were discussing the extreme case and not the norm.

I dont understand why the MODS continue to ignore your violations on this site. I hope they catch you and band you, I'm sure you wont be missed by many.


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## DAC..florida (Apr 4, 2003)

JN,


I forgot to mention if you want proof next time you come to disney where only about 2hrs. away, or central florida for that matter. I would love to meet you and possibly train. 




                                                                     :goop:


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## Johnathan Napalm (Apr 4, 2003)

DAC, it is kind of expected for you to make the posts above. I kind of feel sorry for you.


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## DAC..florida (Apr 4, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Johnathan Napalm _
> *DAC, it is kind of expected for you to make the posts above. I kind of feel sorry for you. *





Dont feel sorry for me I have been in martial arts since I was seven so I am no newbie and I know that Mya Ru Jitsu is the real deal!  :asian:


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## Johnathan Napalm (Apr 4, 2003)

Now I truly feel sorry for you!  LMAO!!      A Very sad case indeed....

Didn't you mention that you have had 50 martial instructors?


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## DAC..florida (Apr 4, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Johnathan Napalm _
> *Now I truly feel sorry for you!  LMAO!!      A Very sad case indeed....
> 
> Didn't you mention that you have had 50 martial instructors? *




Negative you must have me confused with someone else!!

Why wont you answer the questions I have asked?  



:goop:


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## Kenpo Yahoo (Apr 4, 2003)

> Jonathon Napalm
> Your lies:
> 
> 1. You lied about the 9mm being more lethal than the 45.
> ...



This is not a correct statement.  I work at a local hospital and we see quite a few GS victims.  One patient had a GS wound (.45 caliber at less than 15 feet, shot by his wife) and he lived.

It is nearly impossible to characterize the destructiveness of something without getting incredibly specific.  If you were to say that a .45  caliber slug ripping through someones liver or heart would prove fatal, then quite possibly this could be true.  However, to make such all encompassing blanket statements, as the ones that you have made, is both an asinine and remiss characterization of the martial arts.

Things function on a probability scale.  By learning the martial arts from a qualified and talented instructor you slightly increase your odds of surviving an encounter.  This goes for women, men, and children.  Does this mean that you can take out anyone at anytime? NO!  It simply means that you have a better chance today than you did yesterday.  It means that you develop a sense of self worth that will make you fight harder today, than you would have yesterday.  It's about developing an appreciation for life that makes you want to live more today than you did yesterday.  See a pattern yet.

Being bigger, stronger, or faster, are all qualities that increase your odds of surviving an altercation but they are by no means a guarantee of anything.  Anyone can be caught off guard, especially if they are an attacker expecting compliance.


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## Johnathan Napalm (Apr 4, 2003)

> _Originally posted by DAC..florida _
> *Negative you must have me confused with someone else!!
> 
> Why wont you answer the questions I have asked?
> :goop: *



That must be someone else then.

Your question is irrelevant to the issue.


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## chufeng (Apr 4, 2003)

The standard issue pistol in the Army, at one time was the .38 caliber...unfortunately, to the dismay of many a soldier, the Army found out that an entire magazine could be unloaded into a rushing opponent, and he would keep coming (even with a fatal wound)...

So, the Army switched to the .45 caliber pistol...one shot, if it encountered the intended target, would STOP the assailant...not necessarily kill him...but stopping power was what the Army wanted...

More recently, the Army has adopted the 9mm pistol...largely because it is a bit more accurate (people are less intimidated by its kick) in MOST soldiers' hands...
The .45 is still the weapon of choice for many in the armed services...it would be my choice...but hitting the target is probably more important than launching "potentially" dangerous rounds randomly down-range...so both weapons are effective DEPENDING on the shooters capabilities.

:asian:
chufeng


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## Johnathan Napalm (Apr 4, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Kenpo Yahoo _
> .....This is not a correct statement.  I work at a local hospital and we see quite a few GS victims.  One patient had a GS wound (.45 caliber at less than 15 feet, shot by his wife) and he lived.\
> 
> It is nearly impossible to characterize the destructiveness of something without getting incredibly specific.  If you were to say that a .45  caliber slug ripping through someones liver or heart would prove fatal, then quite possibly this could be true.  However, to make such all encompassing blanket statements, as the ones that you have made, is both an asinine and remiss characterization of the martial arts.....



Nothing is absolute. That goes without saying. The exception only confirms the rule.  I pressume any grown person would know that.

The lethality of the 45 is beyond question. Its stopping power is proven on numerous battlefields and wars and LEO shooting.

It is braindamaged to quote 1 case in an attempt  to prove other hundreds of thousands of cases wrong. (Which happens to be MRJ/Zhou Da Wei/Schultz David's modus operandi) I can bring up a case where a suspect was shot with a .223 from an ASSAULT RIFLE and he was NOT injured!  So, are you going to make MRJ/Zhou Da WEi/Schultz David  type of bold face BS that the 223 is non-lethal ??  

(Unlike MRJ/Zhou Da Wei/Schultz David, I am going to cue you in on the mitigating circumstances of that case. You see, the 223 hit the guy's front chest!  Yes. CENTER SHOT. But the lucky bastard had a huge metal lighter in his front pocket and the 223 disintegrated when hitting that lighter!!   That's how he survived.)

If you look at GS cases, sure, people died from even BB shots from airguns, and yet survive 223!  DUH!  

But the EXCEPTION only confirms the rule!!  That is the operating principle!

In the civilian world, you can use hollowpoint and that greatly increased the lethality of other caliber.  In the military world (excluding counter terrorism), FMJ/ball ammo is the rule.   Battlefield reports UNIVERSALLY confirmed the lethality of the 45!!
Therefore, *if you use hollow-point 45, YOU DO NOT NEED TO DOUBLE TAP AND A HEAD SHOT!  Which technique (2 to chest + to head) is something soldiers from the battlefield reported back as IMPRACTICAL! * 

Moreover, even hollowpoint may fail to open up. But the 45, even not opened up, has proven KO power on its own!

There your go. Free firearm education.  
[/quote]


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## Johnathan Napalm (Apr 4, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Kenpo Yahoo _
> .....Things function on a probability scale.  By learning the martial arts from a qualified and talented instructor you slightly increase your odds of surviving an encounter.  This goes for women, men, and children.  Does this mean that you can take out anyone at anytime? NO!  It simply means that you have a better chance today than you did yesterday.  It means that you develop a sense of self worth that will make you fight harder today, than you would have yesterday.  It's about developing an appreciation for life that makes you want to live more today than you did yesterday.  See a pattern yet.
> 
> Being bigger, stronger, or faster, are all qualities that increase your odds of surviving an altercation but they are by no means a guarantee of anything.  Anyone can be caught off guard, especially if they are an attacker expecting compliance. ...



Try reading this:



> _Originally posted by Johnathan Napalm _
> *Much to my dissappointmet (not really actually), all of you who claimed to work in Law enforcement, security, bouncing, yada yada yada, for how long and how long and so forth and so forth, NOT one of you have even mentioned the first principle of security!  Shame on all of you. Some of you ought to be fired from your positions if you were actually IN those positions at all.
> 
> The most successful bouncers DO NOT get into fights!  Sheeze!  Any one who has been in the bouncing business successfully, would tell you that the NUMBER 1 rule is De-escalating the situation!  Your job is to stop the confrontation from happening.  No business owner would give a hoot about your ability to pound the trouble makers into a bloody pulp.  No, dumb ***! You are not hired to create lawsuits for the owner. You are hired to PREVENT problems from happening in the first place!.
> ...


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## Johnathan Napalm (Apr 4, 2003)

> _Originally posted by chufeng _
> *The standard issue pistol in the Army, at one time was the .38 caliber...unfortunately, to the dismay of many a soldier, the Army found out that an entire magazine could be unloaded into a rushing opponent, and he would keep coming (even with a fatal wound)...
> 
> So, the Army switched to the .45 caliber pistol...one shot, if it encountered the intended target, would STOP the assailant...not necessarily kill him...but stopping power was what the Army wanted...
> ...



EXACTLY! 

However, the 45 is inherently accurate. It is the untrained shooters who are the problem.  If people think after getting a gun and they are all set to defend themselves and their home.....oh well....

"... hitting the target is probably more important than launching "potentially" dangerous rounds randomly down-range..."

Over penetration is also a concern.  That is why in residential environment, prefrag may save one's *** from the DA.


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## A.R.K. (Apr 4, 2003)

Hard to know where to begin...

D.A.C. I would caution you not to get caught up into Jonathan's world.  He is not abiding by the same sense of reality as the rest of us.  He gets caught up into his own lies and then tries to rationalize them with supposed humor or attack others truthfull observations or both.  

You asked...



> Why wont you answer the questions I have asked?



He responds...



> Your question is irrelevant to the issue.



Yet your questions were made in the thread directly involved with the content of the topics involved.  He will not answer your questions as it will expose the weakness of his position.  He has stated that I am 'over-the-hill' yet he has no idea of my age.  He doubts my credentials and background yet does not know me nor has he bothered to check into any reference/resourse I have given him.  He simply doubts because my opinion differs from his...not based on anything factual.  

He is like the Iraqi information minister that states Coalition forces are not within 100 miles of Bagdad despite the fact the citizens can see us in the distance.  At first I thought he was merely a troll, as he clearly has no knowledge of things he claims expertise in such as the martial arts and firearms, and simply desires to create strife.  And that is still a possibility, but truly feel now that he atually believes the things he types.  His pattern is that of a bi-polar individual.  We both have experience with individuals such as this, take a long look at his mood swings.

Kenpo Yahoo,

Good post sir and thank you for your observations. We appreciate the insight but do not get offended if JN does not choose to be open minded in analyzing the input.  He has stated that a .40 bullet that hits ONE time in the chest of ANYONE...whether of not it hits a vital, will instantly kill them.  It is in the thread dealing with firearms that was locked.  I feel it safe to say that anyone even slightly familar with firearms will know that this is of course untrue but I don't think any amount of factual data or common sense will convince Jonathan.  He is to filled with rage.

Chufeng,



> The standard issue pistol in the Army, at one time was the .38 caliber...unfortunately, to the dismay of many a soldier, the Army found out that an entire magazine could be unloaded into a rushing opponent, and he would keep coming (even with a fatal wound)...



I will both agree and disagree with you on some points.  Yes the .38 was used prior to the very early 1900's however it is not the .38 of today.  Yes the army switched to .45 as the result of asian action with the Morro's.  An entire *cylinder*  [not magazine] of .38's failed dismally BUT the .45 handgun did NOT fair much better.  The .45 gained an inflated reputation especially during WWII with half-starved Japanese soldiers being shot.  The .45 is a fine caliber and a very vialble choice for both LE and military.  I have one and carry it daily.  But it is not the wonder death ray that JN makes it out to be.  Even Marshal Evans and Ed Sanow,despite their highly questionable reputation, admitts that the .45 has a tremendous number of failures to stop people despite multiple upper torso hits.  

Good caliber...yes.  Better than any other...depends on your personal definition of better I suppose.  I like both the .45 and 9mm, have both, carry both [depending on situation] and feel comfortable with both...as far as one can be comfortable with a handgun caliber.




> both weapons are effective DEPENDING on the shooters capabilities.



Exactly...well spoken.

Gentlemen, as far as JN is concerned, I would suggest you leave any action towards him, if any, to the moderators/administrators.  They seem to be fair so trust thier judgements and timing.

:asian:


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## DAC..florida (Apr 5, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Johnathan Napalm _
> *Try reading this: *




Again we are not talking about the norm but the extreme cases, that unfortunately do accure READ THE NEWS PAPER LATELY!!!
:goop:


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## DAC..florida (Apr 5, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Johnathan Napalm _
> *That must be someone else then.
> 
> Your question is irrelevant to the issue. *




How is it irrelevent, my claims are made by actual discussion with LEO personel and I would simply like to know where you get your info....... 


 :goop:


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## Bob Hubbard (Apr 5, 2003)

*Admin Note:*

Guys...

Enough already.

We've gotten a number of complaints about this (and a few other) threads with the same folks butting heads. We've put out enough warnings, yet the sarcasm and disrespect still runs hot.

Next person to fire a round that we deem 'disrespectful' or otherwise against the intentions of this forum will be taking a vacation.

I trust I'm clear here?

:asian:


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## SteelShadow (Apr 5, 2003)

I mean no disrespect but ive been a memebr here awhile granted not near as long as some.but I know You and the other mods have to see  it seems like every post or new thread jn is responding to he does so by disrespecting or trying to belittle someone.Maybe im wrong if i am then im sorry its just my oppion .Thats why i rarely respond to his post .Its easy to see in most cases he simply tries to goad someone into an argument.Always questioning linage back grounds and legitamacy of others yet never giving any insight into his own.I have nothing personal against him.I have better things to do than argue on the internet.I was just wandering what it takes to cross the line one of the main resons I come here is because it is friendly.Not to say theres not a fair share of disagreements.But for the most part its is conducted very cival like even when the people involved totally disagree.But to go around trying to start flame wars and then hiding behind OH I was just exspressing my oppion is just childish.Everone should exspress there oppion openly,But to many times to many people use that right to start flames.Anyway  was just wandering.If i crossed the line with this post just say so.But I feel like its something alot of folks on here are wandering just havnt gotten around to asking....


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## arnisador (Apr 6, 2003)

> _Originally posted by SteelShadow _
> *I was just wandering what it takes to cross the line *



We have rules, but it's mostly a matter of staying within our basic guideline of _friendly_ discussion. It's a case-by-case thing. We want to preserve a certain atmosphere.




> *
> one of the main resons I come here is because it is friendly. *



That's what we like to hear, and that's the kind of place we are trying to keep it. Please, have patience! We're trying our best to keep it that way but we also try to be fair to all our members.

I'm going to close this thread; I think the time has come. Feel free to start new threads for anything discussed in this one.

-Arnisador
-MT Admin-


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