# Intro to Popular MMA terms



## Rook (Feb 2, 2007)

I decided to create a thread for MMA slang and shorthand used on the internet.  I intend to link to this thread in the future rather than having to use long explanations everytime.  

*3Cs*- The 3 Cs refers to _Consistancy_, _Competency_ and _Convincing proof._  Consistancy means the subject in question has a reasonable ratio of sucess to failure. Competency means it has been used sucessfully against competent opponents.  Convincing proof means that proof on the order of video or court documents is available, people can consult sources themselves and there is little doubt that the incident unfolded as described.  

*Resisting Opponent* - an opponent who is trying not to allow you to perform the subject against them.  

*Fully Resisting Opponent* - an opponent who is not part of a uke-tori or attacker/defender role, is bound not bound by a syllabus requirement, is competing against you in a full speed, full power manner.  

*Full speed* - you are permitted to go as fast as you can or as slow as you want without your opponent being compelled by the rules to follow suit.  It differs from slow speed or variable speed work.  

*Full power* - you are permitted to strike, throw and push etc as hard or soft as desired without your opponent being compelled by the rules to follow suit.  It differs from low or no contact rules. 

*syllabus requirement* - if a syllabus requirement applies, you are only permitted to use techniques or tactics from within an approved list or art.  Anything not permitted if off limits.  MMA does not have a syllabus requirement in sparring or competition, that is, anything not explicitly ruled out is ok.  

*Pressure testing* - as origionally used, the term mean competition against a fully resisting opponent, with full speed, full power and no syllabus requirement in the hope of sorting out what subjects were and were not practical and the degree to which subjects were practical in reality as opposed to theory.  The term has been appropriated by the RBSD movement, which has assigned an almost entirely different meaning to the term.  In this new definition, it refers to any practice that is more difficult or involves more resistance than solo kata.  

*sports grappling* - BJJ, Judo, Catch wrestling, modern submission wrestling, shootfighting, SAMBO

*"crappling"* - groundwork not present in any sports grappling system

*freeform* - no requirement exists on where one may move or  resist etc. within the ruleset.  That is, there is no pre-set pattern or patterns that must be adhered to.


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## Shogun (Feb 2, 2007)

we should also cover common slang such as "rocked" and common positions such as half guard as they are use as terms so much.


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## The Kidd (Feb 2, 2007)

Thanks, I know I need all the help I can get.


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## rutherford (Feb 2, 2007)

The difference between your usage of Pressure testing and the RBSD use of the term brings up two related definitions:

*Symmetrical Drill* - Equal intention, agenda and permissions (Rules of Engagement) between two or more players 

*Asymmetrical Drill* - Disequal drills such as the case of an attacker and a defender (uke / tori); or a defender and multiple attackers

RBSD pressure testing often refers to Asymetrical Drills done at full speed and intention.  Your usage seems to refer only to Symmetrical Drills.


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## Rook (Feb 2, 2007)

Shogun said:


> we should also cover common slang such as "rocked" and common positions such as half guard as they are use as terms so much.


 
I was origionally going to make this just stuff that is unique to or almost unique to MMA, but I could expand it.  

I started to write out some grappling stuff, but it might go better in the grappling section.


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## Rook (Feb 2, 2007)

rutherford said:


> The difference between your usage of Pressure testing and the RBSD use of the term brings up two related definitions:
> 
> *Symmetrical Drill* - Equal intention, agenda and permissions (Rules of Engagement) between two or more players
> 
> ...


 
Thats a good way to put it.


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## Tez3 (Feb 8, 2007)

This is MMA Jim but not as we know it!

Sorry, myself and a lot of fighters over here have been trying to figure what you mean but it's over our heads I'm afraid! It must be an American MMA thing? We don't use any of those terms. Interesting though.


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## Shotgun Buddha (Feb 8, 2007)

Tez3 said:


> This is MMA Jim but not as we know it!
> 
> Sorry, myself and a lot of fighters over here have been trying to figure what you mean but it's over our heads I'm afraid! It must be an American MMA thing? We don't use any of those terms. Interesting though.


 
I'd say that has alot to do with Straight Blast Gym's effect. Do they have much of a presence in England?


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## Tez3 (Feb 8, 2007)

Shotgun Buddha said:


> I'd say that has alot to do with Straight Blast Gym's effect. Do they have much of a presence in England?


 
No they don't, the only SBG gym I know of is Karl Tanswell's in Manchester, he's an excellent instructor though. Rosi Sexton fights out of there, she recently fought in Las Vagas and is currently in Puerto Rico for a fight with Bodog. the most biggest over here are probably London Shoot, Wolfslair and Trojan ( Bispings camp), there are a great many very good smaller clubs though who all produce good fighters. SBGIreland of course has the great John Kavanagh, a very good fighter and instructor and someone I think is great!


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## Shotgun Buddha (Feb 8, 2007)

Tez3 said:


> No they don't, the only SBG gym I know of is Karl Tanswell's in Manchester, he's an excellent instructor though. Rosi Sexton fights out of there, she recently fought in Las Vagas and is currently in Puerto Rico for a fight with Bodog. the most biggest over here are probably London Shoot, Wolfslair and Trojan ( Bispings camp), there are a great many very good smaller clubs though who all produce good fighters. SBGIreland of course has the great John Kavanagh, a very good fighter and instructor and someone I think is great!


 
Kavanagh definitely has a major effect on the MMA scene here alright.
How spaced out are the clubs over there? Here they're showing up everywhere, but in a good solid way.


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## Tez3 (Feb 8, 2007)

Shotgun Buddha said:


> Kavanagh definitely has a major effect on the MMA scene here alright.
> How spaced out are the clubs over there? Here they're showing up everywhere, but in a good solid way.


 
John "More Mojo" Kavanagh had a major effect on the girls over here lol! We have a huge amount of clubs and more and more events, most of us train at each others clubs which is why I know none of us understood the terms posted up here. I'd say I know nearly all the clubs and fighters over here. It's a good scene. Most towns have at least one MMA club now.


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## Shotgun Buddha (Feb 8, 2007)

Tez3 said:


> John "More Mojo" Kavanagh had a major effect on the girls over here lol! We have a huge amount of clubs and more and more events, most of us train at each others clubs which is why I know none of us understood the terms posted up here. I'd say I know nearly all the clubs and fighters over here. It's a good scene. Most towns have at least one MMA club now.


 
Excellent. From what I can see as well, there's starting to be a fair bit of interaction between Irish and and English MMA clubs through the competitions as well. Which is quite nice.
Im mentally blocking any images to do with that comment about JK for the sake of my sanity.


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## Tez3 (Feb 8, 2007)

Shotgun Buddha said:


> Excellent. From what I can see as well, there's starting to be a fair bit of interaction between Irish and and English MMA clubs through the competitions as well. Which is quite nice.
> Im mentally blocking any images to do with that comment about JK for the sake of my sanity.


 
Well you can imagine the looks I got standing waiting for him at the airport with a sign saying "more mojo please" rofl! I was meeting him and taking him and one of his fighters Arnie Isaakson to our event and didn't know him then! I was dared to use his user name, never again! Great fun and his fighter was very good, Karl Tanswell came up as well to do the corner with him. I have it on DVD if you fancy, pm me an address you don't mind me using and I'll send it on.
I will ask around and gather up phrases we use and see if any of them are the same.


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## Shotgun Buddha (Feb 8, 2007)

Tez3 said:


> Well you can imagine the looks I got standing waiting for him at the airport with a sign saying "more mojo please" rofl! I was meeting him and taking him and one of his fighters Arnie Isaakson to our event and didn't know him then! I was dared to use his user name, never again! Great fun and his fighter was very good, Karl Tanswell came up as well to do the corner with him. I have it on DVD if you fancy, pm me an address you don't mind me using and I'll send it on.
> I will ask around and gather up phrases we use and see if any of them are the same.


 
I'd say that was good for a laugh 
Sure I'll PM you it in a minute, just got to confirm it first Im only recently moved in.
Over here anyway the different clubs would have different phrases and approaches anyway. Seem to be alot of different backgrounds the clubs come from. The club Im in, Kokoro MMA, is fairly recent, and hails back to John Bluming in Holland, you have SBG from America, and then plenty of other home grown clubs too


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## Rook (Feb 8, 2007)

Tez3 said:


> This is MMA Jim but not as we know it!
> 
> Sorry, myself and a lot of fighters over here have been trying to figure what you mean but it's over our heads I'm afraid! It must be an American MMA thing? We don't use any of those terms. Interesting though.


 
Yeah, in America MMA has become more of its own subculture, with its own slang and its own problems.  I think it probably has a lot more to do with the way MMA got started in Brazil and the US as a system of thought opposed to TMA doctines, and in Britain you got it already developed, whereas here we had to continually defend it against TMA through all the stages of its development.


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## zDom (Feb 8, 2007)

Rook said:


> ... a system of thought opposed to TMA doctines ...



That pretty much sums it up for you, doesn't in Kevin?  

I'm not convinced everybody who is into MMA even in the U.S. is of a like mind.

Maybe this antagonistic viewpoint is more of a sub-subculture.

What baffles me is, given your rigid viewpoints, why you still show up to your karate classes  or have you finally quit?


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## Tez3 (Feb 8, 2007)

Oops! Are things so bad between TMA and MMA that arguments break out as easy as this?


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## Tez3 (Feb 8, 2007)

My club's website is www.shotaikai.co.uk just to show you how we do MMA and TMAs so we don't argue which is best! thereos links to other places too both trad and MMA related.


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## Rook (Feb 8, 2007)

zDom said:


> That pretty much sums it up for you, doesn't in Kevin?


 
Not really.  That is simply a part what MMA has had to become in the United States.  



> I'm not convinced everybody who is into MMA even in the U.S. is of a like mind.


 
No, not everyone is.  



> Maybe this antagonistic viewpoint is more of a sub-subculture.


 
Thats fair enough.  



> What baffles me is, given your rigid viewpoints, why you still show up to your karate classes &#8212; or have you finally quit?


 
I have.  

I'm not sure why my simultaneous involvement in karate and defense of MMA would be so confusing to you.  Although it might seem like I spend alot of time on here arguing with you guys, and although I spent alot of time of time on karate (not very well spend in retrospect) I have a life outside of either activity and up until recently have not really considered spending the necessary amount of money and time to become a better fighter.  Though I live in an urban area, I have avoided fights to my satisfaction and I do not take the attitude that I must personally devote my life to fighting ability; that said, I do have a great deal of respect for the people who do have different priorities and greater dedication and I feel that the professional fighters whose abilities I admire have earned my respect.


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## Rook (Feb 8, 2007)

Tez3 said:


> Oops! Are things so bad between TMA and MMA that arguments break out as easy as this?


 
In the United States, yes.


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## Tez3 (Feb 8, 2007)

Rook said:


> In the United States, yes.


 
That's not good to say the least! I have to say that the MMA stuff I see on here is nothing much I recognise from what we do, this thread is indicticive of that. When I showed it to people they scratched their heads,drills with more than one attacker? Pressure testing? Attacker and defender? That's not MMA. You have a MMA fight between two people of equal weight and experience, in a cage or ring. There is a referee and judges, timekeeper etc. Ring girl too if you wish lol! Bell goes, the fighters fight. 
What goes on before the fight is training, fitness work, weights, running. In the club sparring, grappling, practicing takedowns, chokes, locks, anything and everything.Studying your opponent, watching his fights. making a plan, sorting tactics. preparing for the fight.This is all MMA.
Everything else is..... well everything else!


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## Rook (Feb 8, 2007)

Tez3 said:


> That's not good to say the least! I have to say that the MMA stuff I see on here is nothing much I recognise from what we do, this thread is indicticive of that. When I showed it to people they scratched their heads,drills with more than one attacker? Pressure testing? Attacker and defender? That's not MMA. You have a MMA fight between two people of equal weight and experience, in a cage or ring. There is a referee and judges, timekeeper etc. Ring girl too if you wish lol! Bell goes, the fighters fight.
> What goes on before the fight is training, fitness work, weights, running. In the club sparring, grappling, practicing takedowns, chokes, locks, anything and everything.Studying your opponent, watching his fights. making a plan, sorting tactics. preparing for the fight.This is all MMA.
> Everything else is..... well everything else!


 
In the US, most of the MMA gyms are not purely ring competition oriented.  Many have retained either the BJJ weapons defenses or added ones from Ken or Frank Shamrock, Bas Rutten, SBG, or any number of others.  Many still do multiple opponent drills.  There is a strong relationship here between MMA and military/LEO stuff... some gyms have special classes that focus on helping LEOs.  Many big name MMA trainers spend as much time on military bases and in police gyms as they do on their own stable.  

I gain the impression that the because Europe got MMA when it was established as its own style you have gotten to leapfrog over all the challenge matches and associated bad blood and good recruiting that happened in the US.  

I have heard you comment before that your gym gets along well with the TMA schools around you.  While that is by and large the case here as well, there are some very, very common debates between MMA and TMA here which unfortunately have still not been fully resolved and may never be.


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## Tez3 (Feb 8, 2007)

I don't think we got MMA exactly from the States although perhaps the UFC made it more popular. A lot of the TMA's here have done a mixture of styles and Pankration has never died out in Greece.A lot of martial artists I know have always trained in more than one club and have often combined styles when fighting. I also do Wado Ryu karate, the founder of which was also a Juijitsu Master so there are elements of both in it.  Although my club is based on a military camp we are a 'leisure or sport' facility as far as the MOD is concerned, the same as any other sport. Our spec ops units do their own thing....secretly lol!
I have noticed an atmosphere that is quite uptight about American Martial arts with insistance on lineage, strictly upheld traditions and fierce arguments about history! Lineage in relation to martial arts was a new concept to me, no one asks it here. A lot of us keep traditions to a minimum.


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## zDom (Feb 9, 2007)

Tez3 said:


> Oops! Are things so bad between TMA and MMA that arguments break out as easy as this?



Locally? Nope.

On MT? Unfortunately, yes.


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## zDom (Feb 9, 2007)

Rook said:


> ... I do not take the attitude that I must personally devote my life to fighting ability ...



That's one of the GOOD things about hapkido (and quality "do's" in general): it isn't just about devoting myself to fighting ability (although I believe HKD is serving me well enough in that department, also),

HKD is "good medicine" for my mind, spirit and body. It has truly made me a better person in significant ways.


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## zDom (Feb 9, 2007)

Tez3 said:


> Ring girl too if you wish lol!



I LIKE the ring girls! And those cute little Xience shorts they wear 

I wish we could get hapkido-mat girls to walk around the mat during breaks in hapkido class *sigh*


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## zDom (Feb 9, 2007)

Tez3 said:


> I have noticed an atmosphere that is quite uptight about American Martial arts with insistance on lineage, strictly upheld traditions and fierce arguments about history! Lineage in relation to martial arts was a new concept to me, no one asks it here. A lot of us keep traditions to a minimum.



This isn't limited to TMA, though: the MMA camps are coming with NEW lineages:

Gracies, Miletich, Bas, etc., etc.

And nobody as is uptight about lineage as the Japanese! 

Personally, I think it is nice to know where your roots are, but quality instruction always should take precedence over a "lineage" of ANY type, IMO.


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## rutherford (Feb 9, 2007)

Rook said:


> I'm not sure why my simultaneous involvement in karate and defense of MMA would be so confusing to you.  Although it might seem like I spend alot of time on here arguing with you guys, and although I spent alot of time of time on karate (not very well spend in retrospect) I have a life outside of either activity and up until recently have not really considered spending the necessary amount of money and time to become a better fighter.  Though I live in an urban area, I have avoided fights to my satisfaction and I do not take the attitude that I must personally devote my life to fighting ability; that said, I do have a great deal of respect for the people who do have different priorities and greater dedication and I feel that the professional fighters whose abilities I admire have earned my respect.



It's confusing because much of physical and martial culture has to be FELT to be understood.

You can read about Martial Arts all you like.  But until you have actual experience, you don't Know anything.  Only by consitantly and daily deepening your practice, will you ever have any understanding.


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## zDom (Feb 9, 2007)

Something occurred to me as I was surfing other threads:

Out of respect for Rook's topic (MMA terminology), could a moderator move the last part of this thread somewhere else?

Maybe title it "MMA culture discussion"?

This is a nice discussion, but I'm feeling guilty for my part in what now appears to be a thread hijack.


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## Rook (Feb 9, 2007)

rutherford said:


> It's confusing because much of physical and martial culture has to be FELT to be understood.
> 
> You can read about Martial Arts all you like. But until you have actual experience, you don't Know anything. Only by consitantly and daily deepening your practice, will you ever have any understanding.


 
The karate I did the last 3 years of my experiance was not that dissimilar to what I am doing with MMA.  We had an instructor belted in BJJ and we did some work with it.  We had sparring more similar to kickboxing that other karate.  I ultimately decided to switch because I felt that my time was not well spent doing some of the distractions that went along with it (kata, one-step sparring, some standup joint locks, the formalities at the begining and end of class and belt tests).


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## rutherford (Feb 9, 2007)

Rook said:


> The karate I did the last 3 years of my experiance was not that dissimilar to what I am doing with MMA.  We had an instructor belted in BJJ and we did some work with it.  We had sparring more similar to kickboxing that other karate.  I ultimately decided to switch because I felt that my time was not well spent doing some of the distractions that went along with it (kata, one-step sparring, some standup joint locks, the formalities at the begining and end of class and belt tests).



Your timeline does not match the one you posted in your Welcome thread.

Where do you study MMA?


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