# Ed Parker movement VS his senior 1st generation students



## Atlanta-Kenpo (Nov 20, 2005)

Which of the senior 1st generation top students (Tatum, Planas, Trejo, Wedlake, Doc, Sullivan, Kelly and several others.); do you think moves the most like Ed Parker and why?


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## Touch Of Death (Nov 20, 2005)

I would say Mike Pick for his ability to generate power.
Sean


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## Dark Kenpo Lord (Nov 20, 2005)

Atlanta-Kenpo said:
			
		

> Which of the senior 1st generation top students (Tatum, Planas, Trejo, Wedlake, Doc, Sullivan, Kelly and several others.); do you think moves the most like Ed Parker and why?


 
None of them, they don't have the same physical attributes.    All these guys have their own signatures, just as I have my own separate signature unique to me, and I move nothing like my instructor.   Think like him, yes, move like him, absolutely  not.

DarK LorD


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## Touch Of Death (Nov 20, 2005)

There is a most amoung them however.


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## Dark Kenpo Lord (Nov 20, 2005)

Touch'O'Death said:
			
		

> There is a most amoung them however.


 
Only to you.   AMONG?

DarK LorD


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## Brother John (Nov 20, 2005)

Gonna have to agree with Clyde on this one!!!
Doesn't seem to me that Mr. Parker wanted to have "Cookie-cutter" students and generate little "Parkers"....
but to create artists that were their own people, and could stand on their own two feet....
not on his.

Your Brother
John


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## VoodooChild (Nov 20, 2005)

I think Doc Chapel is the only one that comes close.  Just look at his record, Ed Parker Jr recieved his black belt from him.  No other student has done that.  Just contact Parker Jr.


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## Touch Of Death (Nov 20, 2005)

Brother John said:
			
		

> Gonna have to agree with Clyde on this one!!!
> Doesn't seem to me that Mr. Parker wanted to have "Cookie-cutter" students and generate little "Parkers"....
> but to create artists that were their own people, and could stand on their own two feet....
> not on his.
> ...


Guess I misread the question. My Bad.
Sean


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## parkerkarate (Nov 20, 2005)

Atlanta-Kenpo said:
			
		

> Which of the senior 1st generation top students (Tatum, Planas, Trejo, Wedlake, Doc, Sullivan, Kelly and several others.); do you think moves the most like Ed Parker and why?


 
I would say Mr. Tatum.


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## Doc (Nov 20, 2005)

VoodooChild said:
			
		

> I think Doc Chapel is the only one that comes close.  Just look at his record, Ed Parker Jr recieved his black belt from him.  No other student has done that.  Just contact Parker Jr.


I appreciate the vote,  but my promoting Edmund and how I move are mutually exclusive of each other. Additionally a couple of years after I promoted Edmund others like Huk Planas, and Frank Trejo also acknowledged and promoted Edmund as well. Once again, I do appreciate the rare vote for the "old man" who I think still moves pretty well like the real Old Man.


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## Atlanta-Kenpo (Nov 21, 2005)

Personaly, I always thought that Larry Tatum moves alot like Mr Parker with the exception of there size difference they seem to move a-like.  In fact I beleave that I read in an Black Belt mag article that even Ed Parker himself stated that Larry Tatum moved like himself.


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## Seabrook (Nov 21, 2005)

Okay, now let me ask the question that everyone has so wanted to ask for so long, but couldn't get themselves to type.

Do you think there is someone today that moves as good as Mr. Parker did? 


Jamie Seabrook
www.seabrook.gotkenpo.com


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## Brother John (Nov 21, 2005)

Seabrook said:
			
		

> Do you think there is someone today that moves as good as Mr. Parker did?


Maybe Paul Mills and a small handful of his top students.
My opinion... 


Your Brother
John


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## IWishToLearn (Nov 21, 2005)

That's going to be a can of worms discussion. Without offending anyone there's going to be nitpicking of details to pin that one down. From what I've seen and granted, I'm new to Kenpo (bout a year) I'd have to say Dr. Chapel, and then Master Tatum.


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## MJS (Nov 21, 2005)

As for the oiginal question:  I'm with Clyde and Bro John.  We are all built differently so we're all going to move differently with our own unique way about it.  I would have to say though that anyone that has spent alot of time with Mr. Parker would probably resemble him the most.

As for Jamies question:  I'd have to go with Mr. Tatum

Mike


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## Doc (Nov 21, 2005)

Atlanta-Kenpo said:
			
		

> Personaly, I always thought that Larry Tatum moves alot like Mr Parker with the exception of there size difference they seem to move a-like.  In fact I beleave that I read in an Black Belt mag article that even Ed Parker himself stated that Larry Tatum moved like himself.


Here's a good question; Moves like Mr. Parker when? He wasn't born moving a certain way, and he evolved over his lifetime and his methods of execution changed as he became more knowledgeable of body mechanics. Another thread made the observation that Mr. Parker changed significantly. Then the other point is; How do you compare when you don't necessarily know what you're looking at? In general, all kenpoist move somewhat alike, howeer I see things that others may not. The more knowledge you have the more you can see an analyze what you are observing. I was watching a well known kenpoist doing Form 5 with another very well known kenpoist. He was impressed with the performance, I thought the body mecahnics were awful as I analized his movement as Mr. Parker had taught me. Consider yourself judging a gymnastics routine, that you thought was really well done, but the knowledgeable judges give it a low score because "they know what they're looking at." Observing motion is different from analyzing mechanics. My point is simple. These kind of questions will always be limited to the limited parameters of the observer and therefore are a moot point outside of his own subjective opinion. Me, I think I move like Barry Allen.


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## IWishToLearn (Nov 22, 2005)

I was thinking of more like Refridgerator Perry crossed with Emmett (sp) Smith. You're deceptively quick for a gentleman of your culinary prowess. ;-)


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## Doc (Nov 22, 2005)

IWishToLearn said:
			
		

> I was thinking of more like Refridgerator Perry crossed with Emmett (sp) Smith. You're deceptively quick for a gentleman of your culinary prowess. ;-)


Hey dude, don't blow my cover. That "fat old guy thing" works and I catch them off guard.


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## IWishToLearn (Nov 22, 2005)

My bad. I spose you'll have to tap Matt on the cheek again in penance for my crimes.


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## Atlanta-Kenpo (Nov 22, 2005)

Doc,

I know your use to hearin this but your right again!  When I travel down to Ft Myers to see Mr Wedlake he points out the most suttle things about body allignmnet, posture and mechanics that I would have never noticed.  So, what some of us thinks looks good someone such as yourself would think is not so good.

Who do you think are the best movers in Kenpo today (Besides yourself of course.)?

Talk about putting you on the hot seat!


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## Doc (Nov 22, 2005)

Atlanta-Kenpo said:
			
		

> Doc,
> 
> I know your use to hearin this but your right again!  When I travel down to Ft Myers to see Mr Wedlake he points out the most suttle things about body allignmnet, posture and mechanics that I would have never noticed.  So, what some of us thinks looks good someone such as yourself would think is not so good.


Lee is one of my favorite people. A very intelligent man and a gentleman whom I have always admired ever since he first came on the scene coming to California at the Old Man's house. I haven't seen him since a camp in Baltimore in 96'. I wish we had an opportunity to get together again. I feel we both would benefit from the experience.


> Who do you think are the best movers in Kenpo today. Talk about putting you on the hot seat!


Now that's just wrong!!!


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## Kenpobuff (Nov 23, 2005)

Seabrook said:
			
		

> Okay, now let me ask the question that everyone has so wanted to ask for so long, but couldn't get themselves to type.
> 
> Do you think there is someone today that moves as good as Mr. Parker did?
> 
> ...


 

Mr. Seabrook;

Although I haven't had the pleasure to have watched every practioner of "today's" generation of kenpoists or too have had the honor of meeting Mr. Parker but from what I have seen in my limited circles and tapes of Mr. Parker my vote for a person that "moves as good" as, not exactly like, Mr. Parker would be Jim Mitchell's son Jerald Mitchell.  

At just under 6 ft he has a similar build and an incredible ability to take kenpo principles and apply them to motion.  For those that have seen him on the tournament scene in the mid-west and northwest may agree, or not, but in my opinion he would get my vote until I am shown otherwise by those that have seen both.  He is still fairly young and with time he may move further in that direction but not likely.  He has been practicing for 30 years and is probably at his peak.  Again, just my limited opinion.

Good topic Mr. Seabrook!  Any other nominations out there?

Steve


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## Brother John (Nov 23, 2005)

.........all very interesting conjecture, but in the end...it's no more useful a set of questions than "Who'd beat who? Batman or the Hulk??"

we shouldn't get so wrapped up in who others 'were' but in whom we could be tomarow.

Your Brother
John


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## IWishToLearn (Nov 23, 2005)

On that note Batman would defeat ANY opponent given time enough to prepare for the confrontation.


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## Doc (Nov 23, 2005)

IWishToLearn said:
			
		

> On that note Batman would defeat ANY opponent given time enough to prepare for the confrontation.


SHAZAM!


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## Brother John (Nov 23, 2005)

Green Lantern!!!!!


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## Touch Of Death (Nov 23, 2005)

Brother John said:
			
		

> .........all very interesting conjecture, but in the end...it's no more useful a set of questions than "Who'd beat who? Batman or the Hulk??"
> 
> we shouldn't get so wrapped up in who others 'were' but in whom we could be tomarow.
> 
> ...


Again the question is not who would beat who, but who is most like Mr Parker. As for super heroes I say the Badger Moves most like Mr. Parker, but Spiderman is a close second.
Sean


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## parkerkarate (Nov 28, 2005)

Well it is deffinitely not the Hulk.


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## kevin kilroe (Nov 29, 2005)

Atlanta-Kenpo said:
			
		

> Doc,
> 
> I know your use to hearin this but your right again! When I travel down to Ft Myers to see Mr Wedlake he points out the most suttle things about body allignmnet, posture and mechanics that I would have never noticed. So, what some of us thinks looks good someone such as yourself would think is not so good.
> 
> ...


 
I don't know who the best movers are but I do know who the worst spellers are!


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## parkerkarate (Nov 29, 2005)

kevin kilroe said:
			
		

> I don't know who the best movers are but I do know who the worst spellers are!


 

Cuz we all be edjumicated


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## DavidCC (Nov 30, 2005)

kevin kilroe said:
			
		

> I don't know who the best movers are but I do know who the worst spellers are!


 
ROFL!!!!!!


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## Harley Quinn (Nov 30, 2005)

Did anyone mention that Ed Parker received any trophies for his movement or is this just 'hero' worship gone awry? Is there any proof to all this?
It is a question.
Harley


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## Touch Of Death (Nov 30, 2005)

I have been to his house and saw a wall of placks. Each a vote of recognition for contributions to the art. Does that count?


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## Harley Quinn (Nov 30, 2005)

Touch'O'Death,
I am not sure, were any for good movement. I would figure that since he was pretty much a 'numero uno' he would get the plaques anyway. But I don't believe he compiled ribbons and trophys for what we are talking about. 
No question he was good at what he did. But like others have said this really is not for us to say. I don't have any videos of his and I don't believe at the time he wrote his Infinite Insight books he was doing much of anything like others are now. 

So for me I don't have the foggest, I would have to go along with what one of the first posters said, 'have a good kenpo day'.

Harley


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## Touch Of Death (Nov 30, 2005)

What are we talking about? A trophy proves good motion? and unless someone comes on here to testify he took fist place in a forms competition you are not buying the possibility that he possessed refined motion?


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## Brother John (Nov 30, 2005)

Harley Quinn said:
			
		

> Touch'O'Death,
> I am not sure, were any for good movement. I would figure that since he was pretty much a 'numero uno' he would get the plaques anyway. But I don't believe he compiled ribbons and trophys for what we are talking about.
> No question he was good at what he did. But like others have said this really is not for us to say. I don't have any videos of his and I don't believe at the time he wrote his Infinite Insight books he was doing much of anything like others are now.
> 
> ...



hmmm..

I'd STRONGLY suggest that "Trophies and ribbons" are an extremely shallow and false way to judge excellence. 
There are many who have'm and yet their abilities are little more than mediocre...

find a better standard, like maybe the impact the person had on the martial arts community on many different levels. Let alone the Beautiful and powerful art he created.

Your Brother
John


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## Harley Quinn (Dec 1, 2005)

Brother John said:
			
		

> hmmm..
> 
> I'd STRONGLY suggest that "Trophies and ribbons" are an extremely shallow and false way to judge excellence.
> There are many who have'm and yet their abilities are little more than mediocre...
> ...


 
OK, here is the deal, I have given SGMEP much praise and respect. My simple question is not being answered because, no he did not. He was kind of above it at that point he did bring forth several systems and much controversy. 
He taught one thing for a while and then changed and taught it different and by doing so angerd his first generation and second generation. They ended up not continuing in his steps but stopped at a crossroad. 

There is no reason to attack me and reverse the hold you can't. One of the reasons Larry Tatum's name comes up and should is because he took the time to lay down everything in video tape so it would be there for all to see. Something SGMEP did not do. He was going to do it but did not and then when it was being done he was on the wrong train and to old to compete with the new guys. Pretty simple. Huk Planas was another. Who did he replace?

When it come's to discussion, stay with the point I was making and don't attack me. I know he created a good system, but others came up and replaced him. Which is exactly what he wanted by the way. 

He tried, like all martial artists to stay one step a head of his students, he did this by changing things and finally he came up with the Infinite Insight 
volume and barely was able to do that. He referenced books that he was writing and never finished, for he died prior to doing that.

His Encyclopedia of Kenpo which was finished by his son and his (EP) wife. It was in full swing or else I don't believe Edmund would have been able to complete it. Other books that SGMEP talked about writing have never hit the shelf. He had not started on them other than at the moment of the creation in his mind while writing the one he was in.

In my opinion 'Have a great Kenpo day' said it right out of the get go. Brother John you agreed with him and now you are trying to make me the goat. Don't go there. 
Trophies and ribbons are only shallow and false to those who don't posses them. IMHO. Or maybe George C. Scott was right?

Harley


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## Touch Of Death (Dec 1, 2005)

Harley,
Actualy they are right on. The fact that you are looking for an etched in stone reference to kenpo just proves you totaly misunderstood Mr. Parker. He was a man just like anyone else and that man was constantly thinking and throwing out what did not fit his new way of thinking. You are trying to project possibly your own victim mentality on Mr. Parker and upon all martial artist for that matter by stating that he was trying to stay ahead of his students. He was the master purly because he was ahead of the game because he lived and breathed refinement of Ideas and Motion as pertaining to music, sports, Kenpo, or anything he did. He was just that guy. For those who feel betrayal that he parted from the understanding of Kenpo that he once had, they were at their destination and Mr. Parker was on the Journey.
Sean


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## Harley Quinn (Dec 1, 2005)

OH Oh, Here we go again, Moderators you have to give them some slack when it comes to there opinions, NOT. Don't attack me! 
This is not about that, if you want to go there fine for it just goes to show your weak side. Yin and Yang and all that.

I am not a victim mentality, I am about as far away a victim as you will ever meet, but I don't think we will, that is good if you were running your mouth off in person and attacking me.

I am talking about his Movement by winning awards for it. He did not. Simple he was praised by others and got mentions, sure great. 

Stick to the subject and don't throw down a glove, I will pick it up.

Harley


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## Touch Of Death (Dec 1, 2005)

Your question is formed in part by your understanding of the art? Is this not the case?
Sean


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## Brother John (Dec 1, 2005)

Harley Quinn said:
			
		

> OK, here is the deal, I have given SGMEP much praise and respect. My simple question is not being answered because, no he did not. He was kind of above it at that point he did bring forth several systems and much controversy.
> He taught one thing for a while and then changed and taught it different and by doing so angerd his first generation and second generation. They ended up not continuing in his steps but stopped at a crossroad.
> 
> There is no reason to attack me and reverse the hold you can't. One of the reasons Larry Tatum's name comes up and should is because he took the time to lay down everything in video tape so it would be there for all to see. Something SGMEP did not do. He was going to do it but did not and then when it was being done he was on the wrong train and to old to compete with the new guys. Pretty simple. Huk Planas was another. Who did he replace?
> ...


 
I have NO idea where you get your ideas.


I never said you didnt praise or respect Mr. Parker. I never said you disrespected him or put him down either. You are drawing things out of what I said that I Did NOT say.
How close to Mr. Parker were you? Your reply here made it sound like you had an inside track on his plans, motivations and intentions. The vast majority of his first generation students dont even come close to claiming that much. 
Attack you? Reverse the hold??  Take yourself pretty seriously huh? I wasnt being snide beforeNOW I am. Can you tell the difference??
I dont claim to know Mr. Tatum. From everything I know all I can tell you is that hes a fine martial artist, had a wonderful instructor and is at least decent at marketing. But I will say this: Id _HIGHLY_ doubt that any success or achievment hes had as a martial artist or Kenpo instructor comes to him as a Result of his Kenpo video series. They are a tool that some use as a reference and something the LTKKA has used to promote their association and make some money. (they are well made after all)
I DID stay to the point, you asked if he had lots of trophies to show he had excellent motion.I said I felt that was superficial and HIGHLY irrelevent and that there are better criteria.Dont like the point?? Deal with it, its simple fact. Refute my claims with facts, don't try to paint me some other way.
Ill GO where I please. I didnt try to make you the Goat in any way.
Trophies and ribbons _ARE_ shallow. They, at best, are reminders of good times and memory pegs for particular days when you were better than those who showed up. Ive known LOTS of martial artists with rooms full ofm, but they werent Great martial artists by any stretch. Some actually werent that good at martial arts at all. They prove/show nothing more than the athletic endevours a person has taken up. Gichen Funakoshi, any trophies? Chojun Miyagi, trophies? Kenwa Mabuni, trophies? Mr. Chow? The Emprados? .come on. You really dont think that trophies and ribbons are THE halmark of greatness do you?
 
Show me where I attacked you in my original response?? Show me where I tried to make you into a goatreally, I dare ya.
Got a ribbon for you if you can.

Yer bro.
John
PS: Feel free to quote Mr. Scott. 
I love good quotes, but they don't stand as evidence of truth... just pithy sayings.


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## Kenpodoc (Dec 1, 2005)

Mr. Parker didn't make official tapes at the end of his career but there are lots of videos showing him in action. Those tapes show power, speed, accuracy and control. When he hit he didn't just use his arms but struck using his whole body as a unit with sinuous whiplike motion accentuating the speed. 


> Did anyone mention that Ed Parker received any trophies for his movement or is this just 'hero' worship gone awry? Is there any proof to all this?
> It is a question.
> Harley


As to hero worship gone awry, I believe that there are a remarkable number of extremely skilled students of Mr. Parker's who still marvel at his mechanics. I believe that this coupled with the video i've seen far outweigh any trinkets earned competitively. Further, I believe that Mr. Parker along with a handful of others created the competitions and the trinkets handed out.

As to students of Mr. Parker's moving like him, I see a part of him in each of the student's I've met. Oddly enough the person I've met who moves the most like the Mr. Parker I've seen in videos from the '70's and '80's is Al McLuckie a Fillipino/Systema stylist.

Respectfully,

Jeff


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## Doc (Dec 2, 2005)

A fire can only burn so long without fuel.


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## bdparsons (Dec 2, 2005)

Brother John said:
			
		

> Green Lantern!!!!!


 
Amen! Can I get a witness?!?


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## Flying Crane (Dec 2, 2005)

Brother John said:
			
		

> I said I felt that was superficial and HIGHLY irrelevent and that there are better criteria.


 
I have a box full of medals that I won at tournaments over the years.  I keep the box in the BACK of the closet.  What does the medal mean?  At best, it means I had a fun afternoon, and met up with some old friends who I only see once a year or so.  Once the tournament is over and we all walk out the door, the medals mean NOTHING.  There are far far better ways to judge a martial artist.


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## Bill Lear (Dec 3, 2005)

Flying Crane said:
			
		

> I have a box full of medals that I won at tournaments over the years. I keep the box in the BACK of the closet. What does the medal mean? At best, it means I had a fun afternoon, and met up with some old friends who I only see once a year or so. Once the tournament is over and we all walk out the door, the medals mean NOTHING. There are far far better ways to judge a martial artist.


Sounds like you should throw them away. The space in your closet could be used for something else.


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## Flying Crane (Dec 3, 2005)

Bill Lear said:
			
		

> Sounds like you should throw them away. The space in your closet could be used for something else.


 
Eventually, when I have enough, I am going to make a suit of armor out of them.


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## Doc (Dec 4, 2005)

Bill Lear said:
			
		

> Sounds like you should throw them away. The space in your closet could be used for something else.


Who are you?


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## Touch Of Death (Dec 4, 2005)

I'd like to take this oportunity to suggest we steer toward the Topic.
Thank you,
Sean


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## Bill Lear (Dec 4, 2005)

Doc said:
			
		

> Who are you?


You know me. Honey... I'm home!

:toilclaw: 

P.S. Send me an e-mail if ya get the chance. My address is listed in my profile.


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## Atlanta-Kenpo (Dec 13, 2005)

WOW!,

I never really considered Al McLuckie simply because he studies and teaches Kali/Systema.  Now, that being said I have had the pleasure to take quite a few seminars from Al and have been hit by him and it was like nothing I have ever felt.  In my opinion he is the most amazing martial artist that I have ever personaly seen.  Not only is he explosive like no one that I have ever seen, he has a sort of snake like movement anlog with the agility of a cat. Other then that he is simply a really nice and cool guy to have a beer with.

Who here has seen Al and what r ur thought on what he has done for Kenpo?  I ask that because I beleave that he mainly does seminars ti kenpo schools.


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## hongkongfooey (Dec 31, 2005)

Beats me. I've never had the pleasure of witnessing how Mr. Parker moved.

HKF


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## kenpotroop (Jan 8, 2007)

I personally train with Jim Mitchells son Jerald Mitchell and have for 9 years. From all the videos I've seen of Mr. Parker I would have to say Jerald Mitchell moves real similar to Mr. Parker and he just continues to get better. Anyone that has seen him in tournments could see the similarity. I'm very happy to be learning kenpo and plan on keeping at it until I can't walk anymore.


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