# Cung Le



## Transk53 (Oct 9, 2014)

Got to be real careful how I present this, but I think this only right in the human sense. There are not many that I believe in, but Cung Le is one of them. I could prattle on about the injustice, but the UFC appear to have listened. A politicla climb down for sure, but still right.

*Clicky*


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## Buka (Oct 9, 2014)

I couldn't get the clicky to work. So I looked up the story.

UFC middleweight Cung Le has legal option to appeal a one-year suspension - ESPN

I hope he wins this. Drug testing is so screwed up.


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## Transk53 (Oct 9, 2014)

Buka said:


> I couldn't get the clicky to work. So I looked up the story.
> 
> UFC middleweight Cung Le has legal option to appeal a one-year suspension - ESPN
> 
> I hope he wins this. Drug testing is so screwed up.



Really, loads up fine for me. Yeah, but so is the UFC. I don't understand how they can be self regulating outside of the states.


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## Xue Sheng (Oct 9, 2014)

I read the original story a while ago and it actually upset me because I have always like Cung Le as a fighter. 

Thanks for the update

I do hope he wins this one


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## Tez3 (Oct 9, 2014)

You haven't seen the before and after photos then? Of course he was doping, watching him it's obvious. Too many signs say he's guilty I'm afraid.


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## Transk53 (Oct 9, 2014)

Tez3 said:


> You haven't seen the before and after photos then? Of course he was doping, watching him it's obvious. Too many signs say he's guilty I'm afraid.
> 
> 
> 
> [/QUOT


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## Transk53 (Oct 9, 2014)

Transk53 said:


> Tez3 said:
> 
> 
> > You haven't seen the before and after photos then? Of course he was doping, watching him it's obvious. Too many signs say he's guilty I'm afraid.
> ...


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## Transk53 (Oct 9, 2014)

Tez3 said:


> You haven't seen the before and after photos then? Of course he was doping, watching him it's obvious. Too many signs say he's guilty I'm afraid.




My Wifi keeps playing up.


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## Transk53 (Oct 9, 2014)

Just before my connection drops (on BT Fon) Cung Le, please no!


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## Transk53 (Oct 9, 2014)

Yeah I was a bit passionate a bit, but maybe so! How many ????????????????????


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## Tez3 (Oct 9, 2014)

Many of us said well before the fight Cung Le was doping. He may get off with it on a technicality though. How many? Most in the UFC I imagine. The company has fighters on a bit of string, perform or out so the pressure to perform is immense.
http://www.bjpenn.com/comprehensive-list-of-ufc-fighter-drug-test-failures/


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## Transk53 (Oct 11, 2014)

Tez3 said:


> Many of us said well before the fight Cung Le was doping. He may get off with it on a technicality though. How many? Most in the UFC I imagine. The company has fighters on a bit of string, perform or out so the pressure to perform is immense.
> Comprehensive List Of UFC Fighter Drug Test Failures



Blimey. Guess I am a little naive over sports drug use, especially the use of Marijuana. I know that its use causes great debate about many things, but an athlete the effects would be very profound I would guess. I have been watching some youtube stuff on Mark Kerr. Some of the injuries that he had sustained would probably floor most people. Indeed, the pressure to fight.






There is a full un cut version, but in German


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## Buka (Oct 11, 2014)

Tez3 said:


> You haven't seen the before and after photos then? Of course he was doping, watching him it's obvious. Too many signs say he's guilty I'm afraid.



I don't look at those two photos the same way. He's in fairly good shape on the left - and with all the stupid weight cutting these people do, it isn't much of a stretch to get to the photo on the right. And IF the photo on the right was done just before re-hydration, another photo twelve hours later might just look like the one on the left.
I'm amazed at the size difference in some MMA matches. To me....weigh in should be just before you step into the ring.

As for drug testing, man, I have a long history of study on the subject. It's kind of crazy. Not so much the science, but how they utilize their procedures.


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## Tez3 (Oct 11, 2014)

Buka said:


> I don't look at those two photos the same way. He's in fairly good shape on the left - and with all the stupid weight cutting these people do, it isn't much of a stretch to get to the photo on the right. And IF the photo on the right was done just before re-hydration, another photo twelve hours later might just look like the one on the left.
> I'm amazed at the size difference in some MMA matches. To me....weigh in should be just before you step into the ring.
> 
> As for drug testing, man, I have a long history of study on the subject. It's kind of crazy. Not so much the science, but how they utilize their procedures.



I believe there's a couple of years between the photos. 

Most weigh in here are done on the day, most fighters have jobs so can't leave them so weigh's have to be on the day.


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## Transk53 (Oct 11, 2014)

Buka said:


> I don't look at those two photos the same way. He's in fairly good shape on the left - and with all the stupid weight cutting these people do, it isn't much of a stretch to get to the photo on the right. And IF the photo on the right was done just before re-hydration, another photo twelve hours later might just look like the one on the left.
> I'm amazed at the size difference in some MMA matches. To me....weigh in should be just before you step into the ring.
> 
> As for drug testing, man, I have a long history of study on the subject. It's kind of crazy. Not so much the science, but how they utilize their procedures.





Tez3 said:


> I believe there's a couple of years between the photos.
> 
> Most weigh in here are done on the day, most fighters have jobs so can't leave them so weigh's have to be on the day.



I agree with both of you. Interesting points, but to me could be 50 - 50. Gatlin did it twice and is back. So maybe Cung doing it is probably not that bad in the grand scheme of things. Still though, something just does not smell right!


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## Skpotamus (Oct 18, 2014)

The thing with those two pics though: the one on the left (the "before" pic) was him during weight cutting, at the lowest weight he could get to, on the scales at a UFC weigh-in.  The "after" pic on the right is him at a training camp, as in, not weight cutting yet.  

The guy has been a pro fighter his entire adult life.  He's trained like a madman the entire time.  Suddenly, at 42, he changes his whole physique rather drastically, enough so that people were saying he's on some form of PED.  Then he tests positive for a PED?  I know it's not foolproof, but if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck.....


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## punisher73 (Oct 18, 2014)

Skpotamus said:


> The thing with those two pics though: the one on the left (the "before" pic) was him during weight cutting, at the lowest weight he could get to, on the scales at a UFC weigh-in. The "after" pic on the right is him at a training camp, as in, not weight cutting yet.
> 
> The guy has been a pro fighter his entire adult life. He's trained like a madman the entire time. Suddenly, at 42, he changes his whole physique rather drastically, enough so that people were saying he's on some form of PED. Then he tests positive for a PED? I know it's not foolproof, but if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck.....



Agreed.  Strangely enough, it looks like the Sylvestor Stallone physique pics as well before Sly started using GH.

It's one thing for a young untrained person to make drastic changes in a physique once they start lifting and dieting right.  But, a pro athlete isn't going to make those kinds of changes at age 42 without some type of chemical assistance.

I like Cung Le and have always been a fan, but I just don't buy it that the physique is JUST due to diet changes and training.


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## Transk53 (Oct 18, 2014)

punisher73 said:


> Agreed.  Strangely enough, it looks like the Sylvestor Stallone physique pics as well before Sly started using GH.
> 
> It's one thing for a young untrained person to make drastic changes in a physique once they start lifting and dieting right.  But, a pro athlete isn't going to make those kinds of changes at age 42 without some type of chemical assistance.
> 
> I like Cung Le and have always been a fan, but I just don't buy it that the physique is JUST due to diet changes and training.




It would appear so (Oh when I made the original post, I had taken one of my plutonium grade Tramadol meds, kinda spun out a bit. Opioid and all that). I'm really torn over this replying in a normal mode. Cung Le kind of became a hero figure to me. I first saw him in Dragon Eyes with JCVD, good film, plus Peter Weller does the usual devils own. My reasoning was that if he could fight in Strike Force and UFC at forty, well then I could drag my **** up and set about trying to mitigate the aftermath. The irony for me is so funny now. I am what I am because of drugs. Now Cung has become the same. Well, life sure does make you appreciate that whatever another person does or does not do, it can still reflect upon you. Whether by circumstance or design, it still shocks!

EDIT> That is prescribed as well.


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## Tez3 (Oct 18, 2014)

The thing to remember though is that the doping helps with some of the physical efforts in fighting but if you aren't a fighter, aren't skilled, aren't determined and aren't brave enough to step into the cage no amount of those type of drugs is going to help. A lot of people could take whatever dope he and the others have but never in a million years could they train as long or as much. The dope may enable the body to take more training but you do have to get off your backside and push yourself to do that training. It's cheating in one respect of course but the actual fights are real, nothing can give you heart or courage when you are in there, nothing can give you the will to win.


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## Transk53 (Oct 18, 2014)

Tez3 said:
			
		

> nothing can give you heart or courage when you are in there, nothing can give you the will to win.



You believe that?


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## Tez3 (Oct 18, 2014)

Transk53 said:


> You believe that?



If not what else would get in you the cage, fighting an opponent to the best of your ability, there's nothing that you can take that will give you heart or courage not alcohol or drugs, it's in the person or not. There's no drug that can give you the will to win, you have the will or you don't, doesn't come in tablet or liquid form.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Oct 18, 2014)

Having been and athlete and around a lot of athletes through the years every athlete I have ever known is always looking for the next edge.  Whether it be training methods, technique, performance enhancing drugs, etc.  This is just the way it is.  Older fighter trying to keep up with the younger fighters.  What do you think he is going to do?  Particularly when the other fighters are doing it as well.  

Having said the above I have always enjoyed watching Cung Le.  Great fighter who had a different style and it was a joy to watch him do his thing!


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## Transk53 (Oct 19, 2014)

Tez3 said:


> If not what else would get in you the cage, fighting an opponent to the best of your ability, there's nothing that you can take that will give you heart or courage not alcohol or drugs, it's in the person or not. There's no drug that can give you the will to win, you have the will or you don't, doesn't come in tablet or liquid form.



Okay from a pure human perspective I agree, but I meant from a substance viewpoint. Chemical interactions can change the average joe into juiced up gorrilla. Of course, very unlikely in the ring or cage, but with modern day science and crap testing methods, not impossible IMHO.


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## Tez3 (Oct 19, 2014)

Transk53 said:


> Okay from a pure human perspective I agree, but I meant from a substance viewpoint. Chemical interactions can change the average joe into juiced up gorrilla. Of course, very unlikely in the ring or cage, but with modern day science and crap testing methods, not impossible IMHO.



The point of taking whatever Cung Le did wouldn't be to turn him into a 'juiced up gorilla', he wasn't a complete beginner nor is he in anyway average lol. For him the benefits of doping would have to be purely physical and to replace what nature in the form of aging has taken away. Being juiced up would only cloud things for him not improve them. he would look to replace any muscle loss and strength not mess with his mind. what does mess with your mind sometimes is that you are aging, it's hard to come to terms sometimes with the fact you can't do as much as you used to and you have all those niggling injuries that take longer to heal ( another reason to dope, to heal quicker or at least at the same speed you used to) sigh I know all about it lol.


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## Transk53 (Oct 19, 2014)

Tez3 said:


> The point of taking whatever Cung Le did wouldn't be to turn him into a 'juiced up gorilla', he wasn't a complete beginner nor is he in anyway average lol. For him the benefits of doping would have to be purely physical and to replace what nature in the form of aging has taken away. Being juiced up would only cloud things for him not improve them. he would look to replace any muscle loss and strength not mess with his mind. what does mess with your mind sometimes is that you are aging, it's hard to come to terms sometimes with the fact you can't do as much as you used to and you have all those niggling injuries that take longer to heal ( another reason to dope, to heal quicker or at least at the same speed you used to) sigh I know all about it lol.



Never said he was. Sorry I have not conveyed my point correctly so I will leave it there. Thanks.


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## Tez3 (Oct 19, 2014)

Transk53 said:


> Never said he was. Sorry I have not conveyed my point correctly so I will leave it there. Thanks.




I know you didn't say he was, just saying that whatever he took will be for a different effect, male HRT if you like.


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## Buka (Oct 19, 2014)

Tez3 said:


> If not what else would get in you the cage, fighting an opponent to the best of your ability, there's nothing that you can take that will give you heart or courage not alcohol or drugs, it's in the person or not. There's no drug that can give you the will to win, you have the will or you don't, doesn't come in tablet or liquid form.



I'm with Tez. You can't teach heart, you can't inject heart....(not sure you can train yourself into heart, not sure you can't, either.)


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## punisher73 (Oct 19, 2014)

Buka said:


> I'm with Tez. You can't teach heart, you can't inject heart....(not sure you can train yourself into heart, not sure you can't, either.)



Agreed, but it doesn't stop people from taking drugs that do mask the pain and give them perceived benefits in the ring.  I have known of many fighters that self dose with cocaine for the hyper feeling and dulling the pain.


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## Tez3 (Oct 19, 2014)

punisher73 said:


> Agreed, but it doesn't stop people from taking drugs that do mask the pain and give them perceived benefits in the ring.  I have known of many fighters that self dose with cocaine for the hyper feeling and dulling the pain.



That though is a different thing, the hyper feeling isn't the same as heart, it's just feeling hyper. Heart is in the training not the fighting, the day in day out grind of training when you could be with family and friends, when you don't feel too bright. Adrenaline will give the hyper feeling and dull pain so perhaps if the adrenaline is lacking and the fighters have to take cocaine then their heart is lacking.


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## punisher73 (Oct 19, 2014)

Tez3 said:


> That though is a different thing, the hyper feeling isn't the same as heart, it's just feeling hyper. Heart is in the training not the fighting, the day in day out grind of training when you could be with family and friends, when you don't feel too bright. Adrenaline will give the hyper feeling and dull pain so perhaps if the adrenaline is lacking and the fighters have to take cocaine then their heart is lacking.



I was agreeing with you that you can't take "heart in a pill".  It's something that you have to reveal through hard training.

My point was that people do take drugs to create an "invincible feeling" when they go in there.  Call it what you will, but people will try to get any advantage they can in a pill/shot.


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## Tez3 (Oct 19, 2014)

punisher73 said:


> I was agreeing with you that you can't take "heart in a pill".  It's something that you have to reveal through hard training.
> 
> My point was that people do take drugs to create an "invincible feeling" when they go in there.  Call it what you will, but people will try to get any advantage they can in a pill/shot.



You can't however be sure that's the effect you will get from drugs though, risky and probably pointless, an invincible feeling is useless when it comes to fighting, much like being angry you end up making basic mistakes. Far from an advantage taking drugs of that sort is a liability.


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## Transk53 (Oct 19, 2014)

Tez3 said:


> You can't however be sure that's the effect you will get from drugs though, risky and probably pointless, an invincible feeling is useless when it comes to fighting, much like being angry you end up making basic mistakes. Far from an advantage taking drugs of that sort is a liability.



Heightened senses would be a little prone to mistakes.


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## Reedone816 (Oct 20, 2014)

UFC due to media ridicule extent 9 mo ban to 12 mo ban, and it still ridiculed since Le fough once per several years.
And now for PR sake after Le post his rebuttal online, UFC gives "answering right" to Le...
Now with new HGH test already taken several casualties, including Chael and Wand, I wonder what 2015 will like when the test will be done randomly year round...
Sent from my RM-943_apac_indonesia_207 using Tapatalk


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## Transk53 (Oct 20, 2014)

Reedone816 said:


> UFC due to media ridicule extent 9 mo ban to 12 mo ban, and it still ridiculed since Le fough once per several years.
> And now for PR sake after Le post his rebuttal online, UFC gives "answering right" to Le...
> Now with new HGH test already taken several casualties, including Chael and Wand, I wonder what 2015 will like when the test will be done randomly year round...
> Sent from my RM-943_apac_indonesia_207 using Tapatalk



Politics as usual.


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## Transk53 (Oct 22, 2014)

UFC now back down as they now have an excuse irrespective of guilt or innocence. Man against the machine, machine must win I guess. Next there will be a bumper pay day as way of an apology irrespective of guilt or innocence. Well probably not in Cung Le's case, but then again being 40 plus. ABBA were right years ago, money money money .. .... .... .....


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## Reedone816 (Oct 22, 2014)

Transk53 said:


> UFC now back down as they now have an excuse irrespective of guilt or innocence. Man against the machine, machine must win I guess. Next there will be a bumper pay day as way of an apology irrespective of guilt or innocence. Well probably not in Cung Le's case, but then again being 40 plus. ABBA were right years ago, money money money .. .... .... .....




A loophole on technicality, even though his level was way way beyond normal level...
The hgh test should have a method like steroid test, that can differentiate syntetic and natural produced one.


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## Transk53 (Oct 22, 2014)

Reedone816 said:


> A loophole on technicality, even though his level was way way beyond normal level...
> The hgh test should have a method like steroid test, that can differentiate syntetic and natural produced one.



Guess so. Maybe some boffin will invent a foolproof one some day.


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