# Most comfortable firearm/holster for conceal carry.



## Instructor (Sep 22, 2021)

I wrote a post in the knife fighting thread about guns and holsters.  It occurred to me that it could lead to an interesting thread. I always carry my knife because it's quick and easy and comfortable and I need a knife for doing knife things pretty routinely.  I seldom carry my gun because it's heavy and bulky and uncomfortable and up till now I haven't needed it.  However, I should carry it.  I went to the trouble to get the conceal carry permit and buy all this stuff and train with it, may as well carry it.  So my question is which firearm and which holster is the most comfortable to carry in your opinion?  I currently have a 40 caliber Smith and Wesson M&P with a plastic Alien Gear shape shift holster.  I tend to carry inside the waist band at the 5 O-clock position which is over right rear thigh. I have a leather IWB holster that is just two flaps but I'm not happy with how well it protects the trigger and since its just two flaps of leather, once drawn it's pretty hard to re-holster the weapon.


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## jmf552 (Sep 22, 2021)

I think that varies from person to person, depending on how you like to carry, how you dress and your body type. There is a LOT of discussion on that on the Defensive Carry forum, but no one consensus. 

I like pocket carry for convenience and concealment, but it does not work well for larger guns. I like OWB 3:00 for larger guns, but that does not conceal well. AIWB seems to be the fastest and the most secure against attempts to take your weapon, but it can also be hard to conceal unless you are really thin. I keep experimenting and changing my mind. It is an ongoing process. 

BTW, I would be careful about depending on a knife for SD. I carry one as a tool, but the legal system seems to be more harsh on the use of knives in SD.


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## Instructor (Sep 22, 2021)

jmf552 said:


> I think that varies from person to person, depending on how you like to carry, how you dress and your body type. There is a LOT of discussion on that on the Defensive Carry forum, but no one consensus.
> 
> I like pocket carry for convenience and concealment, but it does not work well for larger guns. I like OWB 3:00 for larger guns, but that does not conceal well. AIWB seems to be the fastest and the most secure against attempts to take your weapon, but it can also be hard to conceal unless you are really thin. I keep experimenting and changing my mind. It is an ongoing process.
> 
> BTW, I would be careful about depending on a knife for SD. I carry one as a tool, but the legal system seems to be more harsh on the use of knives in SD.


I agree, particularly with the legal system and knives.  I'm not very thin, not anymore anyway, and I figure that ship has probably sailed at this point.  I've never been able to point a gun at my crotch either, I don't know how other people can do it.


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## Instructor (Sep 22, 2021)

When I hike I carry my handgun in a ribz pack: RibzWear it works out great.  But a person can look ridiculous hiking, not so much everywhere else.


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## ballen0351 (Sep 22, 2021)

Ive started appendix carring with a Tier 1 Concealment holster. It conceals well and Im not thin lol plus it has an extra mag holder and once I got use to it its surprisingly comfortable. 
When I dont use that holster I love the crossbreed holster at the 4 oclock position super comfortable I often forget I even have it on.  That was my go to for years lately its been the Tier 1 for me.


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## Dirty Dog (Sep 22, 2021)

Instructor said:


> I wrote a post in the knife fighting thread about guns and holsters.  It occurred to me that it could lead to an interesting thread. I always carry my knife because it's quick and easy and comfortable and I need a knife for doing knife things pretty routinely.  I seldom carry my gun because it's heavy and bulky and uncomfortable and up till now I haven't needed it.


Couple things...
If you're not carrying because it's too heavy and bulky, get a different gun. If you don't carry it because you haven't needed it... you might well not survive if you ever do need it.


Instructor said:


> However, I should carry it.  I went to the trouble to get the conceal carry permit and buy all this stuff and train with it, may as well carry it.  So my question is which firearm and which holster is the most comfortable to carry in your opinion?  I currently have a 40 caliber Smith and Wesson M&P with a plastic Alien Gear shape shift holster.  I tend to carry inside the waist band at the 5 O-clock position which is over right rear thigh. I have a leather IWB holster that is just two flaps but I'm not happy with how well it protects the trigger and since its just two flaps of leather, once drawn it's pretty hard to re-holster the weapon.


I'm a big fan of Alien Gear holsters. If they're not comfortable, you just haven't adjusted them right for your body, or you just haven't worn it enough to get used to the feeling. I've got a huge box full of holsters. I've got an Alien Gear for every model of gun I own, plus some other brands for specific guns. In the last decade, I think I've carried in something other than an AG a handful of times.


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## Dirty Dog (Sep 22, 2021)

ballen0351 said:


> Ive started appendix carring with a Tier 1 Concealment holster. It conceals well and Im not thin lol plus it has an extra mag holder and once I got use to it its surprisingly comfortable.
> When I dont use that holster I love the crossbreed holster at the 4 oclock position super comfortable I often forget I even have it on.  That was my go to for years lately its been the Tier 1 for me.


Ick.
I will never appendix carry. While it's true that modern firearms are extremely reliable mechanically, unintentional discharges are a real thing. If that happens with a holster at the hip or behind, you're going to hit fat. Nothing all that vital. If that happens when appendix carrying, you are far more likely to hit something important. 
Gotta agree with you about the crossbreed. They're really nice, once they have time for the leather to break in. They're very similar to the AG. The two big differences are that AG uses neoprene, which I think breaths better and requires zero break in, and cost. My favorite local shop carries the AG for like $30.


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## ballen0351 (Sep 22, 2021)

Dirty Dog said:


> Ick.
> I will never appendix carry. While it's true that modern firearms are extremely reliable mechanically, unintentional discharges are a real thing. If that happens with a holster at the hip or behind, you're going to hit fat. Nothing all that vital. If that happens when appendix carrying, you are far more likely to hit something important.
> Gotta agree with you about the crossbreed. They're really nice, once they have time for the leather to break in. They're very similar to the AG. The two big differences are that AG uses neoprene, which I think breaths better and requires zero break in, and cost. My favorite local shop carries the AG for like $30.


Meh Ive been around 1000s of guns for decades between the military and law enforcement never seen one just go off for no reason.  Could it happen sure but my brakes in my car could fail also but im not going to give up driving.  For me its the fastest and most natural draw and presenting of a weapon.  Its comfortable and very concealable.  But I honestly dont care where someone else carries as long as they actually do.


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## lklawson (Sep 23, 2021)

Honestly, one of the most important, and most frequently overlooked, elements of comfortable carry is: A GOOD GUN BELT.  Most people seem to use a belt that is not made for the purpose.  "It's a quality leather belt" they'll tell me but in the end, it doesn't work well for supporting a gun.  It will sag, stretch, deform, and usually isn't sufficiently adjustable to give the customized fit that makes carry comfortable.  For 9 our of 10 people, this is where their "Carry System" fails.

If it's not comfortable to carry your gun, my first advice is usually, "buy an actual gun-belt."  There are dozens of brands ranging from the basic but functional with cobra buckles or slip buckles where you'll pay maybe $30 or something (they *LOOK* like gun belts), up through some very high dollar steel belted/reinforced leather stuff you could wear to a wedding.

But for holsters, a quality kydex OWB with a "sweat shield" (that protects from chafing at the skin), at 3 o'clock is the most comfortable carry for me.  A nice covering garment, like an untucked shirt with a long shirt tail (or a vest, or a cardigan, or a sweat-shirt, or hoodie, or...), hides it.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## CB Jones (Sep 23, 2021)

Instructor said:


> I wrote a post in the knife fighting thread about guns and holsters.  It occurred to me that it could lead to an interesting thread. I always carry my knife because it's quick and easy and comfortable and I need a knife for doing knife things pretty routinely.  I seldom carry my gun because it's heavy and bulky and uncomfortable and up till now I haven't needed it.  However, I should carry it.  I went to the trouble to get the conceal carry permit and buy all this stuff and train with it, may as well carry it.  So my question is which firearm and which holster is the most comfortable to carry in your opinion?  I currently have a 40 caliber Smith and Wesson M&P with a plastic Alien Gear shape shift holster.  I tend to carry inside the waist band at the 5 O-clock position which is over right rear thigh. I have a leather IWB holster that is just two flaps but I'm not happy with how well it protects the trigger and since its just two flaps of leather, once drawn it's pretty hard to re-holster the weapon.



I like the Crossbreed IWB holster.  It's a kydex holster that cover the trigger and is easy to reholster

I carry at 5 o'clock and it comfortable and doesn't print alot even with tee shirts.

Most days I don't even feel it and have to touch it to reassure my gun is still there. 

I like it better than the alien gear because it comes with much more durable metal belt clips.


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## CB Jones (Sep 23, 2021)

lklawson said:


> Honestly, one of the most important, and most frequently overlooked, elements of comfortable carry is: A GOOD GUN BELT.  Most people seem to use a belt that is not made for the purpose.  "It's a quality leather belt" they'll tell me but in the end, it doesn't work well for supporting a gun.  It will sag, stretch, deform, and usually isn't sufficiently adjustable to give the customized fit that makes carry comfortable.  For 9 our of 10 people, this is where their "Carry System" fails.
> 
> If it's not comfortable to carry your gun, my first advice is usually, "buy an actual gun-belt."  There are dozens of brands ranging from the basic but functional with cobra buckles or slip buckles where you'll pay maybe $30 or something (they *LOOK* like gun belts), up through some very high dollar steel belted/reinforced leather stuff you could wear to a wedding.
> 
> ...



Nexbelt Tactical Ratchet belts....they are great.


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## Dirty Dog (Sep 23, 2021)

ballen0351 said:


> Meh Ive been around 1000s of guns for decades between the military and law enforcement never seen one just go off for no reason.  Could it happen sure but my brakes in my car could fail also but im not going to give up driving.  For me its the fastest and most natural draw and presenting of a weapon.  Its comfortable and very concealable.  But I honestly dont care where someone else carries as long as they actually do.


It's not about "just go[ing] off", it's about human error. "I'm perfect and will never always draw and reholster absolutely perfectly" is an unreasonable attitude.  Using your analogy, it's not about the brakes failing, it's about you making an error while driving.


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## CB Jones (Sep 23, 2021)

Dirty Dog said:


> It's not about "just go[ing] off", it's about human error. "I'm perfect and will never always draw and reholster absolutely perfectly" is an unreasonable attitude.  Using your analogy, it's not about the brakes failing, it's about you making an error while driving.



I've never liked appendix carry either.  Never found it comfortable and was uneasy with it pointing at my junk.

Also, even though it is a easier draw....I always felt I could conceal alot of my draw from the 5 o'clock position by making it look like I'm reaching for my wallet or phone, etc...

Also, in my line of work our customers check the appendix area more than they do 5 oclock carry.


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## ballen0351 (Sep 23, 2021)

Dirty Dog said:


> It's not about "just go[ing] off", it's about human error. "I'm perfect and will never always draw and reholster absolutely perfectly" is an unreasonable attitude.  Using your analogy, it's not about the brakes failing, it's about you making an error while driving.


Well considering every accident on the road is caused by human error in some form or fashion driving is a risk Im willing to take.  Using properly trained safety measures will ensure Im as "perfect" as I can be. 
Appendix carry is not more dangerous than any other location on your body.  Anytime you have a gun on you there is a risk of human error being present and you or someone else being hurt or killed.  So again like driving you must weigh the risks, your experience, and training level and decide what's best for you.  Having been carrying and training with weapons my entire adult life professionally and on my own time and having attended multiple advanced level training courses I see no issue with Appendix carry nor do many industry experts and trainers in the field.  You dont like it that's cool dont do it.


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## ballen0351 (Sep 23, 2021)

lklawson said:


> Honestly, one of the most important, and most frequently overlooked, elements of comfortable carry is: A GOOD GUN BELT.  Most people seem to use a belt that is not made for the purpose.  "It's a quality leather belt" they'll tell me but in the end, it doesn't work well for supporting a gun.  It will sag, stretch, deform, and usually isn't sufficiently adjustable to give the customized fit that makes carry comfortable.  For 9 our of 10 people, this is where their "Carry System" fails.
> 
> If it's not comfortable to carry your gun, my first advice is usually, "buy an actual gun-belt."  There are dozens of brands ranging from the basic but functional with cobra buckles or slip buckles where you'll pay maybe $30 or something (they *LOOK* like gun belts), up through some very high dollar steel belted/reinforced leather stuff you could wear to a wedding.


100% agree with this.


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## CB Jones (Sep 23, 2021)

ballen0351 said:


> Appendix carry is not more dangerous than any other location on your body.



I disagree.

If you do have an AD while drawing with the appendix carry the gun is pointing at much more vital areas than the gun at 3 - 5 o'clock.

The AD is still human error but the error has more dire consequences in the Appendix carry position...therefore anyone carrying in the appendix position needs to be squared away.


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## ballen0351 (Sep 23, 2021)

CB Jones said:


> I disagree.
> 
> If you do have an AD while drawing with the appendix carry the gun is pointing at much more vital areas than the gun at 3 - 5 o'clock.


If you look at the mechanics of the draw from the appendix you're actually pushing the barrel away from your body as you draw.  Now look at the mechanics of how most people holster at the 3-5 o'clock position they lead with the barrel pointing into the body


CB Jones said:


> The AD is still human error but the error has more dire consequences in the Appendix carry position...therefore anyone carrying in the appendix position needs to be squared away.


I disagree if you are carrying at any position you should be "squared away" regardless of the location


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## ballen0351 (Sep 23, 2021)




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## Dirty Dog (Sep 23, 2021)

ballen0351 said:


>







Carry how you like. I'm not trying to convince you to change. I'm merely pointing out possible issues that might be worth considering.


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## ballen0351 (Sep 23, 2021)

Dirty Dog said:


> Carry how you like. I'm not trying to convince you to change. I'm merely pointing out possible issues that might be worth considering.


There are possible issues no matter where you carry.  Thats my point.


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## Dirty Dog (Sep 23, 2021)

ballen0351 said:


> There are possible issues no matter where you carry.  Thats my point.


Agreed. And minimizing the damage if one of those uncommon issues does arise is, I think, a good idea.


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## ballen0351 (Sep 23, 2021)

Dirty Dog said:


> Agreed. And minimizing the damage if one of those uncommon issues does arise is, I think, a good idea.


We shall have to agree to disagree on what minimizing is.


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## CB Jones (Sep 23, 2021)

ballen0351 said:


> If you look at the mechanics of the draw from the appendix you're actually pushing the barrel away from your body as you draw. Now look at the mechanics of how most people holster at the 3-5 o'clock position they lead with the barrel pointing into the body



The gun is pointed at some pretty vital areas until it clears the holster whereas 5 o'clock is pointed at less vital areas.

So there is a little more danger if a mistake is made.

And holstering at the 5 o'clock position with kydex IWB is vertical...it doesn't start with the barrel pointing into the body.

Carry how you want....its just why I don't prefer it.


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## john_newman (Sep 23, 2021)

Do carry your gun with you Bro.
It doesn't take much time to be shot by the thief or robber..


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## Dirty Dog (Sep 23, 2021)

ballen0351 said:


> We shall have to agree to disagree on what minimizing is.


Do we? 
Accidental discharges happen. 
We should try to minimize the chances of that happening through training and equipment.
If an AD happens, we should try to minimize the damage to ourselves.
What part of that do we disagree on?


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## seasoned (Sep 23, 2021)

It all boils down to personal preference and comfort. While sitting or standing just behind my right hip suits me just fine. The most important thing is to clear and get on target with the least effort.....


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## ballen0351 (Sep 23, 2021)

Dirty Dog said:


> Do we?
> Accidental discharges happen.
> We should try to minimize the chances of that happening through training and equipment.
> If an AD happens, we should try to minimize the damage to ourselves.
> What part of that do we disagree on?


The part where you claim apendix carry is inherently more dangerous then other positions.


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## ballen0351 (Sep 23, 2021)

CB Jones said:


> The gun is pointed at some pretty vital areas until it clears the holster whereas 5 o'clock is pointed at less vital areas.
> 
> So there is a little more danger if a mistake is made.
> 
> ...


You ever watch people holster at the 4 of 5 o'clock?  Almost all of them use the muzzle to "feel around" for the holster opening.  I was a range instructor for my PD.  Whenever we did off duty carry guns and holsters it was rather frightening.  
The Kydex IWB also isnt vertical unless you stand perfectly stright with your legs together


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## ballen0351 (Sep 23, 2021)

john_newman said:


> Do carry your gun with you Bro.
> It doesn't take much time to be shot by the thief or robber..


Im not sure who "bro" is but yes everyday for decades.


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## CB Jones (Sep 23, 2021)

ballen0351 said:


> You ever watch people holster at the 4 of 5 o'clock?  Almost all of them use the muzzle to "feel around" for the holster opening.  I was a range instructor for my PD.  Whenever we did off duty carry guns and holsters it was rather frightening.
> The Kydex IWB also isnt vertical unless you stand perfectly stright with your legs together



Meh....if you are used to the iwb holster you shouldn't have to feel around for it, that just shows they are using a holster they are not really familiar with.

I still feel way more comfortable having a gun pointing down the back of my leg as opposed to at my junk and/or femoral artery.


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## Buka (Sep 23, 2021)

I hate guns, but I've been carrying for so long I can't even remember. Off duty, especially on airplanes, I carry in my pocket. Works for me. Back east, depending on the weather, I switch it up.

I have small hands so I carry small firearms. Again, works for me.


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## CB Jones (Sep 23, 2021)

@ballen0351 

Let me clarify.....I don't have a problem with people carrying in the appendix position....its just not for me.  We still teach it though and probably half the guys I have worked with  use that position.

I do think it has a little more danger because of the vitals in that area.  There is lesser room for error with that gun in that position.

It just makes me uncomfortable for that reason.


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## CB Jones (Sep 23, 2021)

Buka said:


> I hate guns, but I've been carrying for so long I can't even remember. Off duty, especially on airplanes, I carry in my pocket. Works for me. Back east, depending on the weather, I switch it up.
> 
> I have small hands so I carry small firearms. Again, works for me.



I love flying armed especially with Southwestern.  Don't have to deal with the lines going through TSA and I get 1st pick of seating.

I'm not ashamed.....I take full advantage of it.  Lol.


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## Buka (Sep 23, 2021)

CB Jones said:


> I love flying armed especially with Southwestern.  Don't have to deal with the lines going through TSA and I get 1st pick of seating.
> 
> I'm not ashamed.....I take full advantage of it.  Lol.


Yeah, me too!


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## seasoned (Sep 23, 2021)

ballen0351 said:


> You ever watch people holster at the 4 of 5 o'clock?  Almost all of them use the muzzle to "feel around" for the holster opening.  I was a range instructor for my PD.  Whenever we did off duty carry guns and holsters it was rather frightening.
> The Kydex IWB also isnt vertical unless you stand perfectly stright with your legs together


On range eyes scanning or on target, holstering draw arms back to chest and use baby finger to make contact with vest and trace back to holster. Once finger hits holster then left and re-holster. Off duty carry baby finger and index finger are your eyes same deaL..... By using index finger it is off the trigger..... as it should be. There are no standards other then don't look at your holster.


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## jmf552 (Sep 24, 2021)

CB Jones said:


> Nexbelt Tactical Ratchet belts....they are great.


+1 on the Nexbelt. I never thought I could be so impressed with something as mundane as a belt design. It takes a little getting used to, but wow! I doubt I will ever buy another brand of belt.


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## lklawson (Sep 24, 2021)

seasoned said:


> There are no standards other then don't look at your holster.


Many instructors are now teaching "Look the gun into the holster," especially for concealed carry.

This change is for two reasons.  First, if there is still enough potential threat that you can't afford to take your eyes off of your environment, then you shouldn't be putting your gun away in in the first place.  Second, reholstering is a really common place for "accidents" to happen, including things like clothing getting in the way, fouling the reholster, or even getting into the trigger.  These issues can easily be prevented by watching your gun into the holster.

Here's a Mas Ayoob article:








						How To: Safe Re-Holstering Tips
					

Procedural tactics regarding the safe holstering of a handgun have changed dramatically over the years. Here are some things to know.




					gundigest.com
				




NRA:








						NRA Family | How to Safely Reholster Your Handgun
					

“Be very, very careful when you holster a firearm.”




					www.nrafamily.org
				




A Girl And A Gun:








						How to Reholster Your Pistol
					

There may be times when you need to draw your pistol quickly, but reholstering is to be done slowly and deliberately following these steps.




					www.agirlandagun.org
				




I'm not saying that there aren't still a lot of people teaching DON'T look your gun into the holster, but I am saying that this isn't an exclusive standard any more and there has been a paradigm shift.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## seasoned (Sep 24, 2021)

lklawson said:


> Many instructors are now teaching "Look the gun into the holster," especially for concealed carry.
> 
> This change is for two reasons.  First, if there is still enough potential threat that you can't afford to take your eyes off of your environment, then you shouldn't be putting your gun away in in the first place.  Second, reholstering is a really common place for "accidents" to happen, including things like clothing getting in the way, fouling the reholster, or even getting into the trigger.  These issues can easily be prevented by watching your gun into the holster.
> 
> ...


Great articles, Kirt thanks... Scanning for threats before holstering "is" key.....


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## Instructor (Sep 24, 2021)

I'm enjoying the discourse and learning a great deal.  I knew some would favor appendix carry and others wouldn't that seems to be a debate whenever this topic is raised and that is okay. The gun belt advice will be headed, I got paid today and I plan to order one.

I think the way I carry at the range is slightly different than out in the world.  I understand the logic of train at the range with what you have in the world but the situation is different. At the range I may draw and re-holster several times.  In the world I go around holstered all the time and (God forbid) if I do have to draw it will only be once.

I've seen those appendix carry video's before. I'm still not comfortable with it.

I am used to open carry on my right hip when I was a cop.  Open carry is allowed in my state but... I think concealing is far more practical.  I was taught the first rule of gun safety is to never point it anything you don't want to shoot.  This is why I just can't bring myself to appendix carry..


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## ballen0351 (Sep 24, 2021)

jmf552 said:


> +1 on the Nexbelt. I never thought I could be so impressed with something as mundane as a belt design. It takes a little getting used to, but wow! I doubt I will ever buy another brand of belt.


Same I use Nextbelt and Hanks leather belts as my go-to depending on what Im wearing.


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## ballen0351 (Sep 24, 2021)

Instructor said:


> I was taught the first rule of gun safety is to never point it anything you don't want to shoot.  This is why I just can't bring myself to appendix carry..


I get that point but the reality is the barrel isn't pointing at anything in the appendix position.  Most men's Ummm "twig and berries" are centerline on the body.  The barrel at least for me the barrel rides in the area of the crease where the hip joint is so it's not really pointing at anything.  If you think about where your appendix is it's off to your right side.  That's where my grip on my pistol sits a good 3 to 4 inches away from the centerline and not pointing at my twig or berries.  As im sitting here typing if for some reason my weapon fired the round wouldn't even touch my skin Id have a hole in my jeans and some powder burn on me but that's about it.  Same as the 3 or 5 o'clock position if it were to fire it would just put a hole in my pants and burn my butt a little lol.  

Drawing and Holstering are the most likely time for a negligent discharge and at least how I draw from the appendix as Im getting a nice high firm grip Im rolling my wrist towards my body as I draw.  That pushes the barrel away from my body so again if it were to go off id have a hole in my pants but nothing else.  However, looking at how I would draw from the 3-5 the mechanics of the draw for me naturally rolls my wrist away from my body which pushes the barrel into my body (which I never realized before until now and is something I need to fix)  

Again I don't really care how anyone carries as long as they do.  I wish more people would.


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## ballen0351 (Sep 24, 2021)

Oh, I never answered the 1st part of the question my current go-to carry pistol is the sig p365.


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## Instructor (Sep 24, 2021)

ballen0351 said:


> Im not sure who "bro" is but yes everyday for decades.


It does seem to be a bit familiar for a stranger on the internet LOL..


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## Instructor (Sep 24, 2021)

ballen0351 said:


> I get that point but the reality is the barrel isn't pointing at anything in the appendix position.  Most men's Ummm "twig and berries" are centerline on the body.  The barrel at least for me the barrel rides in the area of the crease where the hip joint is so it's not really pointing at anything.  If you think about where your appendix is it's off to your right side.  That's where my grip on my pistol sits a good 3 to 4 inches away from the centerline and not pointing at my twig or berries.  As im sitting here typing if for some reason my weapon fired the round wouldn't even touch my skin Id have a hole in my jeans and some powder burn on me but that's about it.  Same as the 3 or 5 o'clock position if it were to fire it would just put a hole in my pants and burn my butt a little lol.
> 
> Drawing and Holstering are the most likely time for a negligent discharge and at least how I draw from the appendix as Im getting a nice high firm grip Im rolling my wrist towards my body as I draw.  That pushes the barrel away from my body so again if it were to go off id have a hole in my pants but nothing else.  However, looking at how I would draw from the 3-5 the mechanics of the draw for me naturally rolls my wrist away from my body which pushes the barrel into my body (which I never realized before until now and is something I need to fix)
> 
> Again I don't really care how anyone carries as long as they do.  I wish more people would.


Could you share a photo?


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## ballen0351 (Sep 24, 2021)

Instructor said:


> Could you share a photo?


LOL I was actually thinking about it when I typed that to make it easier to explain but was hesitant due to the massive amount of crotch shots it would be.  But yeah let me take a few pics.


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## Instructor (Sep 24, 2021)

ballen0351 said:


> LOL I was actually thinking about it when I typed that to make it easier to explain but was hesitant due to the massive amount of crotch shots it would be.  But yeah let me take a few pics.


Shouldn't be an issue so long as you keep your pants on. LOL.


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## ballen0351 (Sep 24, 2021)

Instructor said:


> Shouldn't be an issue so long as you keep your pants on. LOL.


darn it now I have to go retake the photos


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## seasoned (Sep 24, 2021)

ballen0351 said:


> Again I don't really care how anyone carries as long as they do.  I wish more people would.


I could not agree more....


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## ballen0351 (Sep 24, 2021)

Instructor said:


> Shouldn't be an issue so long as you keep your pants on. LOL.


So it's actually harder than I thought to take pictures of yourself at that angle I'll need to get my tripod out of my office to take a good pic.  But here is my carry set up.  Pretend the TV Remote is your area of concern.  The orange highlighter is the bullet path if it were to fire.


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## john_newman (Sep 24, 2021)

ballen0351 said:


> Im not sure who "bro" is but yes everyday for decades.


Great..!!


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## CB Jones (Sep 24, 2021)

ballen0351 said:


> So it's actually harder than I thought to take pictures of yourself at that angle I'll need to get my tripod out of my office to take a good pic.  But here is my carry set up.  Pretend the TV Remote is your area of concern.  The orange highlighter is the bullet path if it were to fire.
> 
> View attachment 27340



Yep...no thank you.....move that inside the  pants and there is a good chance my junk is getting hit.


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## ballen0351 (Sep 24, 2021)

CB Jones said:


> Yep...no thank you.....move that inside the  pants and there is a good chance my junk is getting hit.


Except theres not.  But you do you.


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## CB Jones (Sep 24, 2021)

ballen0351 said:


> Except theres not.  But you do you.



Uh....awkward but your picture suggests otherwise.


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## ballen0351 (Sep 25, 2021)

CB Jones said:


> Uh....awkward but your picture suggests otherwise.


How many times have you shot yourself in the past?  How many times has a gun gone off in your holster?  If you are that worried about shooting yourself perhaps you shouldnt carry at all.  I personally dont plan on shooting myself anywhere no matter where I carry.  Nor have I ever seen anyone shoot themselves while carrying as long as they are using a quality holster and practice even minimum safe handling procedures.  I have seen ummmm wanna be gangsters shoot themselves pleanty most didnt have a holster at all or used cheap neoprene holsters and they had little to no formal training. And among them zero shot off their genitals


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## Dirty Dog (Sep 25, 2021)

ballen0351 said:


> I get that point but the reality is the barrel isn't pointing at anything in the appendix position.  Most men's Ummm "twig and berries" are centerline on the body.  The barrel at least for me the barrel rides in the area of the crease where the hip joint is so it's not really pointing at anything.


Well, nothing other than your femur. Your pelvis. Your femoral artery...
At 3-5, it's pointed at the fat pad on your butt.
While rare, I've seen people with ND's in both. The ones carrying 3-5 go home. The ones appendix carrying go to the OR. The difference in risk is small, but real. It can be mitigated but not eliminated by training. If that higher risk is acceptable to you, then go for it.


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## ballen0351 (Sep 25, 2021)

Dirty Dog said:


> Well, nothing other than your femur. Your pelvis. Your femoral artery...
> At 3-5, it's pointed at the fat pad on your butt.
> While rare, I've seen people with ND's in both. The ones carrying 3-5 go home. The ones appendix carrying go to the OR. The difference in risk is small, but real. It can be mitigated but not eliminated by training. If that higher risk is acceptable to you, then go for it.


It's acceptable by me and countless others who have far greater training and experience then I do.   So I guess we are back to agree to disagree.  But I would say you should actually get a quality appendix holster and give it a try you would see the barrel placement isn't going to hit anything important other then atmost skim the inner thigh.


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## Dirty Dog (Sep 25, 2021)

ballen0351 said:


> It's acceptable by me and countless others who have far greater training and experience then I do.   So I guess we are back to agree to disagree.  But I would say you should actually get a quality appendix holster and give it a try you would see the barrel placement isn't going to hit anything important other then atmost skim the inner thigh.


I don't think I do. As I said, I've already seen multiple examples of ND wounds in pretty much any carry method you care to use. I don't really need to shoot myself to know what injuries are likely to occur.


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## ballen0351 (Sep 25, 2021)

Dirty Dog said:


> I don't think I do. As I said, I've already seen multiple examples of ND wounds in pretty much any carry method you care to use. I don't really need to shoot myself to know what injuries are likely to occur.


If you are that worried about shooting yourself you probably shouldnt carry at all.


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## Dirty Dog (Sep 25, 2021)

ballen0351 said:


> If you are that worried about shooting yourself you probably shouldnt carry at all.


You really seem like you're reading a lot of stuff that I never actually wrote. Why is that, do you think?


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## ballen0351 (Sep 25, 2021)

Dirty Dog said:


> You really seem like you're reading a lot of stuff that I never actually wrote. Why is that, do you think?


Every post you make is about shooting yourself or damage from guns going off on thier own for no reason. Seems to be an unhealthy fear of being shot by your own gun. Kinda odd to me.  You also seem really concerned about how I carry which is touching and all but im good.


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## Dirty Dog (Sep 25, 2021)

ballen0351 said:


> Every post you make is about shooting yourself or damage from guns going off on thier own for no reason.


Well, no. I've never said that. I've explicitly said that guns don't just go off on their own. But it is undeniable that negligent discharges are a real thing.


ballen0351 said:


> Seems to be an unhealthy fear of being shot by your own gun. Kinda odd to me.


Odd to me too, since what you're attributing to me only exists in your own mind.


ballen0351 said:


> You also seem really concerned about how I carry which is touching and all but im good.


Again, you're fantasizing. I've said plainly that you should carry however you like.
I have corrected your erroneous claim that wounds from an ND will not be more serious from appendix carry than from 3-5. You clearly don't believe this to be true, but that's the cool thing about facts. You can disbelieve them and they're still true.


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## ballen0351 (Sep 25, 2021)

Dirty Dog said:


> I have corrected your erroneous claim that wounds from an ND will not be more serious from appendix carry than from 3-5. You clearly don't believe this to be true, but that's the cool thing about facts. You can disbelieve them and they're still true.


Except your "corrections" are wrong.  If you carry a quality holster and train properly the round wont even strike your leg.  The Tier 1 hoslter I showed in the picture I guess I should have showed the back side also. It had 2 large foam wedges pushing the barrel away from the body and pushed the top the pistol into the gut to help prevent printing.   Added to the claw on the right side of the holster which also pushes the exposed part of the weapon the rear of the slide and the grip into the body pushing the barrel even farther away from the body.  Bullets travel in a straight line until they hit something.  So if that gun goes off its not even pointed at my body.  Even if it was parallel to my body at most it will skim my inner thigh.  I dont draw pointing at myself so again if it goes off when drawing it still wont hit me.  I suppose the most vulnerable time is reholstering and I put the weapon on safe when I reholster then flip it to fire once hosltered.


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## Instructor (Sep 27, 2021)

ballen0351 said:


> So it's actually harder than I thought to take pictures of yourself at that angle I'll need to get my tripod out of my office to take a good pic.  But here is my carry set up.  Pretend the TV Remote is your area of concern.  The orange highlighter is the bullet path if it were to fire.
> 
> View attachment 27340


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## Instructor (Sep 27, 2021)




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## john_newman (Sep 27, 2021)

ballen0351 said:


> If you are that worried about shooting yourself you probably shouldnt carry at all.


Point!!!


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## ToddSMedley (Nov 11, 2022)

Comfort label is different for different people.  I like the Crossbreed IWB holster.


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