# Jow Ga Vs Muay Thai Rounds 3-5



## JowGaWolf (Aug 7, 2016)

Some more video of me doing some light sparring against my brother.  I got a chance to try out some new things.  Lately I've been working on ways to use a cross stance in my fighting style.  Hopefully I'll have some new tricks in my bag before the end of the year. 

Jow Ga vs Muay Thai

I haven't studied the video yet so feel free to make recommendations, identify missed opportunities, etc.  By the way I'm not the one doing Muay Thai.  I'm the other guy.


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## drop bear (Aug 7, 2016)

Try not to have a break when you chin parry head kicks. Recovering from a shot and capitalising when you make one is still part of the dynamic.

It is hard because you don't want to appear like you have raged out. But just tell the guy before hand that you will continue on.


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## JowGaWolf (Aug 7, 2016)

drop bear said:


> Try not to have a break when you chin parry head kicks. Recovering from a shot and capitalising when you make one is still part of the dynamic.
> 
> It is hard because you don't want to appear like you have raged out. But just tell the guy before hand that you will continue on.


That's something I definitely need to work on. Thanks


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## kuniggety (Aug 7, 2016)

I know in most videos it's of you sparring with others of your same school. It was interesting seeing the change because you seem to have adopted your style a bit. You're usually rushing in with the punches but you kept more distance, threw a lot more kicks, and then waited for the right openings before charging in for the punches. I think you each got some solid hits but I'm sure when he stepped under your punch and grabbed you in a clinch you realized you just fucked up there, lol.


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## JowGaWolf (Aug 7, 2016)

kuniggety said:


> I'm sure when he stepped under your punch and grabbed you in a clinch you realized you just fucked up there, lol.


Yeah I knew right away that I was toast.  My brother is an excellent wrestler so at that point the only thing that went in my mind was that I was about to be slammed hard, Game over, Call 911 and tell them to bring life support. lol.


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## drop bear (Aug 7, 2016)

If you turn your back with those punches he is going to take your back. I wouldn't do them. 

Otherwise you would have to play with when and where you do them and how you recover from a missed shot. So I don't know. 

The takedown drill we do would help. Three guys. One holds focus mits one throws punches and defends takedowns one does takedowns. So then you are punching and have to defend the shot.


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## JowGaWolf (Aug 7, 2016)

drop bear said:


> If you turn your back with those punches he is going to take your back. I wouldn't do them.


 Sounds good.  I'll try that drill.

I need to find an escape for the type of technique he used on me.   He drove his shoulder under my armpit which made that arm useless and prevented me from being able to sink into a lower stance.  I would hate to get caught like that in a real fight.


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## drop bear (Aug 7, 2016)

JowGaWolf said:


> Sounds good.  I'll try that drill.
> 
> I need to find an escape for the type of technique he used on me.   He drove his shoulder under my armpit which made that arm useless and prevented me from being able to sink into a lower stance.  I would hate to get caught like that in a real fight.



The move is a duck under.  The defence is tyrannosaurus arms.


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## JowGaWolf (Aug 7, 2016)

drop bear said:


> The move is a duck under.  The defence is tyrannosaurus arms.


Thanks for the info.  I'll do some research on it.


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## Red Sun (Aug 7, 2016)

The biggest problem i see is that you're reacting to everything he does, while you 'try' to hit him he just slaps you.

If you're going to get hit while reacting to his strikes, then just attack when he attacks and use his attack as your opening. I promise, you won't get hit any more times than you would have if you'd stayed on the defensive.

Notice how he reacts to most of your attacks? Study that.


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## MAfreak (Aug 8, 2016)

i'd go with more straight hand strikes instead of the big swinging ones and with the guard more on the jaw but not sure if this would be your kung fu style if you want to keep it.
i liked the fakes and kicking combinations.


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## JowGaWolf (Aug 8, 2016)

MAfreak said:


> i'd go with more straight hand strikes instead of the big swinging ones and with the guard more on the jaw but not sure if this would be your kung fu style if you want to keep it.


Normally I try to use as many big punches as possible just so I can learn the limits of them. The big circular punches are the signature punches for Jow Ga. The system also has some straight attacks and angle attacks that I've been working on but haven't tested "in battle" yet.  Those linear and angle techniques are going to be a challenge for me.  But I can't learn unless I do it.  Maybe I'll make it a game where I can't use the Circular punches.



MAfreak said:


> i liked the fakes and kicking combinations


 Thanks the kicking is something new that I've been working on.  Jow Ga is a combination of 3 fighting systems and Choy Ga kung fu is what makes up a lot of our footwork.  In general, Jow Ga students don't kick much and I want to learn more about the Choy Ga side of it.  I suck at taking angles and I'm not all that great with kicking beyond a front heel kick and low shin kicks so it'll take some time for me to be really effective with kicking.


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## Tony Dismukes (Aug 8, 2016)

Thoughts...

Your brother isn't using anything like classically "pure" Muay Thai. It looks more like a generically eclectic kickboxing style.  (Not a criticism. My standup isn't pure MT either unless I'm doing it as an exercise.)

When your opponent gets the advantageous clinch position, you need to practice working out of it instead of just giving up. Have your brother promise not to slam you (since you don't seem to have much in the way of padded mats) and experiment until you can find a basic game plan for each of the disadvantageous clinch positions you can find yourself in.

If I were sparring you using a Muay Thai approach, I would be throwing a lot more leg kicks. Specifically, I would throw them immediately after you throw a kick of your own and settle down into a sidewise bladed horse stance. From a MT viewpoint, that's a big inviting target.


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## JowGaWolf (Aug 8, 2016)

Tony Dismukes said:


> Your brother isn't using anything like classically "pure" Muay Thai.


You can see more of him doing Muay Thai in the Post Round 1. Jow Ga vs Muay Thai
You can see him work his techniques on the other instructor. Kicks to the inside of the leg, knees, and some clinches. He didn't work as many of those techniques on me.  My goal was to keep him at a distance so that he would be limited on what he could do.  The other instructor likes to fight within a closer range to jab punches and kicks, and as a result my brother was able to do more techniques. 



Tony Dismukes said:


> When your opponent gets the advantageous clinch position, you need to practice working out of it instead of just giving up. Have your brother promise not to slam you (since you don't seem to have much in the way of padded mats) and experiment until you can find a basic game plan for each of the disadvantageous clinch positions you can find yourself in.


We practice on a rough carpet that covers concrete which sucks because it limits the types of takedowns we can do and practice. I'm glad he was able to pull it off because now I'll do those big punches in the context of someone putting me in a bad situation like that.  When I looked at the video again, I found that I should have started a grappling technique of my own when he stopped punch.  The only one I can think of doing at that point may break my opponents arm so I'll have to test it first. I'm going to just assume that he would have been able to do the same thing even if I was throwing punches full speed and I noticed in the clips before that he was trying to jam my punch but I didn't take notice of it, if I had picked up on that then I would have changed the punching plan.

Unfortunately for me my brother lives 12 hours away so I'll have to find someone near by who has control that will allow me to safely learn.



Tony Dismukes said:


> If I were sparring you using a Muay Thai approach, I would be throwing a lot more leg kicks. Specifically, I would throw them immediately after you throw a kick of your own and settle down into a sidewise bladed horse stance. From a MT viewpoint, that's a big inviting target.


 I would welcome the leg kicks especially since kicks to my head would be my biggest weakness. Would you kick with your rear leg or your lead leg?


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## Tony Dismukes (Aug 8, 2016)

JowGaWolf said:


> You can see more of him doing Muay Thai in the Post Round 1. Jow Ga vs Muay Thai


Yeah, I watched that one too. His stance and movement are not typical of pure Muay Thai.



JowGaWolf said:


> When I looked at the video again, I found that I should have started a grappling technique of my own when he stopped punch. The only one I can think of doing at that point may break my opponents arm so I'll have to test it first. I'm going to just assume that he would have been able to do the same thing even if I was throwing punches full speed and I noticed in the clips before that he was trying to jam my punch but I didn't take notice of it, if I had picked up on that then I would have changed the punching plan.



As far as early defenses against that clinch...

You know how you're always saying that a low stance is a good defense against takedowns? Look at how high you are in the moment when he enters on you.

While you're at it, look at the relative positions of your feet. At the moment before the entry, he had stepped out with his right foot to your 10 o'clock while your feet were still pointing straight forward with your left foot forward. That was already exposing your left flank. When you threw the overhand left swing, that gave him the spot under your left armpit on a silver platter. Adjusting your feet before swinging would have helped you. Also remember that throwing an overhand swing with your lead hand is an open invitation to a wrestler unless you set it up just right.

As far as starting your own pre-emptive grappling technique which could break an arm - are you talking about attacking the left arm that he was using to stiff arm you in the face while setting up his shot? If so, your feet were in a poor place to do so. You'd need to fix your stance first.



JowGaWolf said:


> I would welcome the leg kicks especially since kicks to my head would be my biggest weakness. Would you kick with your rear leg or your lead leg?



I'd kick with whichever leg allows me to target the back of your leg. So if you're standing in a side horse stance with your right leg forward, I'd be kicking with my left leg. First option is to kick your leg as you plant it after a kick. Second option is to lead with a flurry of punches and end the combination with the leg kick as you cover or retreat.


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## JowGaWolf (Aug 8, 2016)

Tony Dismukes said:


> Yeah, I watched that one too. His stance and movement are not typical of pure Muay Thai.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes the counter I was looking at, that might break the arm, is applied to the arm that you are referring to.  I think I may be able to lock it but I'm not sure. I have to test it out.

You are also 100% correct about my high stance. As much as I preach about it, I still made the mistake.  A lower stance would have given me the strong stance I needed and it would have made the duck under more difficult to perform.  Silly me.  
Part of a good defense is to make it as difficult as possible for my opponent to do offensive attacks.
 I'll have the students attack as you described to see what my first reaction will be.  Just as soon as my shins and calves heal.  I learned the hard way that heel kicks to the still damage the calf muscles. I also learned that the shin pads don't stop the shock that travels through the bone and comes out the other side of the bone.  Hopefully my legs will be back to normal in 2 weeks.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Aug 9, 2016)

Something can be learned from the following clip. When your opponent kicks, try to catch his kicking leg and take him down (at 0.56, 1.37, 1.44, 3.02). That's a very important part of the Sanshou/Sanda training.


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## FriedRice (Mar 26, 2017)

Muay Thai winning, just sayin'.


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## FriedRice (Mar 26, 2017)

Tony Dismukes said:


> Yeah, I watched that one too. His stance and movement are not typical of pure Muay Thai.



He's a Western Boxer + Muay Thai. Lots of shoulder rolls and even popping elbow up defense, like Mayweather.



> As far as early defenses against that clinch... .



Kung-Fu Cats seems to have a lot of problems vs. the Muay Thai clinch work. And KF is supposed to have grappling in their systems. I spar once in a while vs. a big Shaolin Wu Shu school and they do hit me with weird, animalistic pawing punches but usually always stay on the outside, not wanting any part of the MT clinch. The MT clinch work is a science of its own. Clinch sparring 10+ rounds a week, at least and for years.... is the only way to address against it.


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