# Internal arts and celibacy?



## qi-tah (May 11, 2007)

Hi all;

i'm a bit confused on this score - i've heard a bit about how, in order to open the "small heavenly circle" and strengthen your qi in ba gua walking, you must remain celibate for years, or at least not have sex more than once every couple of months. Apparently this requirement becomes even more important when you start practice walking the "lower basin", as it is a very taxing exercise. My questions are as follows:

1) How many ppl here follow these precepts?

2) Is the ban on sex the same for men and women? Some people i've spoken to to say yes, others no.

Interested to hear yr comments.


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## tshadowchaser (May 11, 2007)

answere to number 1    NOT ME by any means


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## Tames D (May 12, 2007)

1) Not in this lifetime.
2) Don't know the anwser to this one.


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## Xue Sheng (May 12, 2007)

qi-tah said:


> Hi all;
> 
> i'm a bit confused on this score - i've heard a bit about how, in order to open the "small heavenly circle" and strengthen your qi in ba gua walking, you must remain celibate for years, or at least not have sex more than once every couple of months. Apparently this requirement becomes even more important when you start practice walking the "lower basin", as it is a very taxing exercise. My questions are as follows:
> 
> ...


 
1) How many ppl here follow these precepts? - don't know, don't care and I never asked them

2a) Is the ban on sex the same for men and women? - See my answer to #1

2b) Some people i've spoken to to say yes, others no. - Are they Monks?


Internal Martial arts come from Taoist roots.

Taoists have for a very long time had training for sexual practices in order to maintain energy. That does not sound like they have been practicing celibacy to me.

Also there are 2 major sects of Taoism in China today, one practices celibacy and the other doesn't.

Celibacy is not necessary to do anything in Internal CMA. Look at the Internal CMA masters of the past. They generally had rather large families. Where do you think these family lineages come from if they all practice celibacy?


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## mrhnau (May 12, 2007)

I'm waiting for others to jump in and talk about the immorality of celibacy now.


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## qi-tah (May 12, 2007)

Xue Sheng said:


> 1) How many ppl here follow these precepts? - don't know, don't care and I never asked them
> 
> 2a) Is the ban on sex the same for men and women? - See my answer to #1
> 
> ...


 
Ok, so maybe all the stuff i've been hearing has come (ultimately and no, i haven't been speaking to any monks - ascetics, but not monks) from the sect that does practice celibacy? And i guess one could still practice celibacy for long periods and then "resurface" for a bit to get the missus up the spout again. Ack... i don't know... and yr right, if it's not practical then it hardly bears thinking about! Twas just casually interested, that's all.


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## Xue Sheng (May 12, 2007)

qi-tah said:


> And i guess one could still practice celibacy for long periods and then "resurface" for a bit to get the missus up the spout again. Ack... i don't know... and yr right, if it's not practical then it hardly bears thinking about! Twas just casually interested, that's all.


 
Actually that would be monogamy, not celibacy.

I have kids, my Taiji sifu has kids, his Taiji sifu (Tung) had kids and his sifu's sifu (Yang) had kids. Hell the Chen family is into the 20th and I believe the 21st generations now. Xingyi, Bagua, yiquan all the same just about all I know or read about have kids.

If you choose to practice celibacy that is your choice and there is nothing wrong with it, but it is not required to train internal CMA nor is it required to be good at internal CMA.


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## JadecloudAlchemist (May 12, 2007)

> Hi all;
> 
> i'm a bit confused on this score - i've heard a bit about how, in order to open the "small heavenly circle" and strengthen your qi in ba gua walking, you must remain celibate for years, or at least not have sex more than once every couple of months. Apparently this requirement becomes even more important when you start practice walking the "lower basin", as it is a very taxing exercise. My questions are as follows:
> 
> ...


 Here is the theory: When you perform a sexual act and ejaculate your Jing or essence transform into its state known as semen. You are suppose to for 100 days of training not engage in acts of loosing your Jing this in theory will build the foundation for culitvation of Qi. Now this does not mean giving up sex which is a common misunderstanding it simply means do not loose your Jing. Jing also leaks out thru the Ming men even more so in cold weather hence sick people sometimes wear a special wrap around the Tan tien and Ming men. to answer your question on number#1 I have no idea how many nor how many have guys practicing ways to be immortal together with plugs in their anus and someone pinching their spine as Charles Luk describes. To answer your question for number#2 Woman are a little bit different they do not loose Jing the same way a male does in reference to sex that is.  A woman recieves Jing that is how a baby is born. Should a woman not engage in sexual acts to perform what you said in your post? I would say yes if you are trying do this exercise regardless it still takes 100 days. Now this 100 days I refer to is building the foundation and opening the small heavenly circuit if you perform this correctly you should have control of when your Jing leaves thru sexual acts. By all means you can still open the circuit without going thru the 100 days process it is not impossible but it will not lead to higher stages of culitvations and may take longer to accomplish.


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## seasoned (May 12, 2007)

I think I will stick to the old fashion way, kicks and punches. Ba Gua walking sounds like it may not be for me.


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## oddball (May 13, 2007)

Well - are there any physical advantages to celibacy? Like I've heard people don't feel as much pain?
Or also social advantages - like having no life outside of training?


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## lhommedieu (May 13, 2007)

I'm reminded of the quote from Augustan:  "Oh Lord, make me chaste - but not yet!"

In Taoist health practices a man should ejaculate less frequently as he gets older.  This is in keeping with what has been said about Jing (essence) above.  What "less frequently" means depends upon how you define "frequently" of course - but generally it is tied into seven year cosmological cycles.

Women do not lose Jing when they orgasm but lose Qi and Blood due to their menstrual cycle.  There was a famous Chinese princess who is said to have lived past 130 due to her practice of Taoist sexual practices involving multiple younger partners.  But that is another story...

Best,

Steve Lamade


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## Steel Tiger (May 13, 2007)

qi-tah said:


> Hi all;
> 
> i'm a bit confused on this score - i've heard a bit about how, in order to open the "small heavenly circle" and strengthen your qi in ba gua walking, you must remain celibate for years, or at least not have sex more than once every couple of months. Apparently this requirement becomes even more important when you start practice walking the "lower basin", as it is a very taxing exercise. My questions are as follows:
> 
> ...


 
Personally, I think that Daoist ascetic practices are a bit crazy and probably dangerous.  Remember these were created by people so afraid of dying they would try anything.

As for your questions.  
My teacher tried some of the celibacy practices for a while, but found that they were painful and uncomfortable so he stopped.  I haven't tried any (internal ejaculation is *not* for me).

Men and women work differently in terms of Qi and Jin.  So it is very likely that the processes of celibacy practices would work differently.


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## qi-tah (May 13, 2007)

Steel Tiger said:


> Personally, I think that Daoist ascetic practices are a bit crazy and probably dangerous. Remember these were created by people so afraid of dying they would try anything.
> 
> As for your questions.
> My teacher tried some of the celibacy practices for a while, but found that they were painful and uncomfortable so he stopped. I haven't tried any (internal ejaculation is *not* for me).
> ...


 

Internal ejaculation?? What the hell is that... that *sounds* painful and i'm not even male! Ok, so the theory is that blokes lose jing in their sperm and chicks lose qi in their menstural blood... I guess the common factor behind these two events is that fluids come out of the body, ie. a visible event. So it has to be related to the biological cost of replacing that fluid. It can't be related to the loss of genetic material otherwise post-menopausal women would be stuffed. But what about the electrical disturbance of orgasm itself? Wouldn't that bugger about with yr qi, regardless of any fluid loss? Or is that seen as immaterial?

One aquaintance of mine mentioned something about some Taoist women's thing called "turning back the blood" to stop mentruration... i didn't ask what it was but yr right, it all sounds rather extreme. I mean, why not just eat a bit more protein at that time of the month instead.


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## Steel Tiger (May 13, 2007)

qi-tah said:


> One aquaintance of mine mentioned something about some Taoist women's thing called "turning back the blood" to stop mentruration... i didn't ask what it was but yr right, it all sounds rather extreme. I mean, why not just eat a bit more protein at that time of the month instead.


 
Now you've got something of an idea about internal ejaculation.  So as to not lose vital Jin, semen is diverted into the bladder (OUCH!!).  But when you think about it the fluids supposedly saved will simply be expelled through urination.  Remember the guys who invented this stuff were in fear of their lives, and thus a little crazy, I think.


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## tellner (May 13, 2007)

qi-tah said:


> Internal ejaculation?? What the hell is that... that *sounds* painful and i'm not even male!



Today it is known as retrograde ejaculation. The ejaculate travels up the urethra into the bladder. It is routine for men who have had prostatectomies. 

A lot of the pre-scientific Taoist physiology is a little wierd. It was based on ideas of physiology that are not consistent with what we now know about the physical sciences. Much of the rest is analogy and metaphor. And there's a big sprinkling of plain human craziness. Human beings are nuts, and there's nowhere that it comes out more than in anything related to sex.


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## JadecloudAlchemist (May 14, 2007)

> nternal ejaculation?? What the hell is that... that *sounds* painful and i'm not even male! Ok, so the theory is that blokes lose jing in their sperm and chicks lose qi in their menstural blood... I guess the common factor behind these two events is that fluids come out of the body, ie. a visible event. So it has to be related to the biological cost of replacing that fluid. It can't be related to the loss of genetic material otherwise post-menopausal women would be stuffed. But what about the electrical disturbance of orgasm itself? Wouldn't that bugger about with yr qi, regardless of any fluid loss? Or is that seen as immaterial?


You loose Jing and Qi other ways as well. You have both Prenatal and Post natal Jing you can replace Post but you can not replace Prenatal.
An Orgasam does not disturb your Qi in fact I would think it enhances it since it allows the mind to be one of its highest peaks.


> One aquaintance of mine mentioned something about some Taoist women's thing called "turning back the blood" to stop mentruration... i didn't ask what it was but yr right, it all sounds rather extreme. I mean, why not just eat a bit more protein at that time of the
> 
> 
> 
> ...


extreme? If you choose to live a life dedicated to developing this it is similar to any other religious or spiritual practice. 





> semen is diverted into the bladder (OUCH!!). But when you think about it the fluids supposedly saved will simply be expelled through urination. Remember the guys who invented this stuff were in fear of their lives, and thus a little crazy, I think.


 Once you feel the moment of ejaculation and you try to use the "Million dollar point" you are already to late it has already become Semen 
thus leaking down and when you try to channel it back it is already in its refined substance thus leading back into the bladder instead of performing correct practice and not letting it become Semen does it go back to correct path. Taoist being affraid of their life I think is an unfair comment and Buddhist also practices similar exercises. It is not about avoiding Death remember there are many levels of what Taoist refer to as "Immortal". 





> lot of the pre-scientific Taoist physiology is a little wierd. It was based on ideas of physiology that are not consistent with what we now know about the physical sciences. Much of the rest is analogy and metaphor. And there's a big sprinkling of plain human craziness. Human beings are nuts, and there's nowhere that it comes out more than in anything related to sex.


Is this in reference towards how Organs lay? What makes it weird?  Perhaps your view point of weird is 
actually logical and not so out of the ordinary. Does ingesting Jade and Mercury mean your crazy in today's world yes but in those days it seemed logical and if a person was of unintelligent wits they may think the same 
hence why so many think they can touch Mercury.


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## MaartenSFS (May 14, 2007)

First of all... Interesting question.

I have a small point to add to what was already said, about Chinese people and celebacy. They dont exactly go hand in hand. China has 1.3 billion people (I can hear them all day and even scurrying in the night, like rats - what ARE they doing? Mostly construction). They didn't get here by virgin birth!

That said, a recent survey showed that Chinese people are the least satisfied with their sex life. Everybody in China that is able will try to procreate. Why? Because retirement is usually death and pensions are unheard of. They need children to take care of them when they are olde. It's sometimes sickening how dependent parents can become on their children. The parents' and childrens' perfect life would be to live together for all eternity in one big house *GAG*. I'm trying to hash a plan to keep my wife's parents at bay (But with good livings standards) when they are olde. 

Anyways, Chinese people do not practise celibacy, especially when they want sons to take care of them and continue the family legacy, et cetera. If anything, they want to have more. Thank God they are alloted ye one. &#20877;&#35265;


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## qi-tah (May 14, 2007)

MaartenSFS said:


> First of all... Interesting question.
> 
> I have a small point to add to what was already said, about Chinese people and celebacy. They dont exactly go hand in hand. China has 1.3 billion people (I can hear them all day and even scurrying in the night, like rats - what ARE they doing? Mostly construction). They didn't get here by virgin birth!
> 
> ...


 
When i was talking about celibacy i wasn't really talking about a lifelong commitment to not having sex... more along the lines of voluntary celibacy for a defined period of time (in order to achieve some goal), kind of analogous to the word monogamy in the term "serial monogamy". Doesn't take much to get someone up the duff and if that's all sex in China is seen as good for then i can see why their satisfaction rating is so low! :erg: 

JadeCloudAlchemist, could you explain the whole "becoming semen" thing? What does that mean? When is semen not semen?
Btw, the only ways i know to stop yr menstural cycle is to put it under extreme stress through fasting, physical exercise or mental stress. I wouldn't have thought that any of that was particuly conducive to long-term health. Or go on the pill i guess! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Hey, if a woman did go on the pill, would that have the same benifits to her qi as doing this "internal ejaculation" thing?


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## qi-tah (May 14, 2007)

Don't know anything about any "highest peaks". Lying in the gutter, staring at the stars maybe! (apologies to Oscar Wilde)


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## Xue Sheng (May 14, 2007)

MaartenSFS said:


> Because retirement is usually death and pensions are unheard of.


 
Unless of course they are highly educated then retirement is between 55 and whenever and the pension is close to 100%.

 Or at least that is what it is like in Beijing.


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## JadecloudAlchemist (May 14, 2007)

[QUOTEJadeCloudAlchemist, could you explain the whole "becoming semen" thing? What does that mean? When is semen not semen?][/QUOTE]It works like this so we can clarfiy.
Jing means your essence(or can simply means essence of something)
You are given a set amount of Prenatal Jing. When you ejaculate for let us say the sake of procreation the Jing becomes transformed into semen.
For a nice article on Jing you can check on Wikipedia.



> Btw, the only ways i know to stop yr menstural cycle is to put it under extreme stress through fasting, physical exercise or mental stress. I wouldn't have thought that any of that was particuly conducive to long-term health. Or go on the pill i guess!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Actually there is a safer method of stopping it
but that requires instuction from a teacher. The pill prevents you from becoming pregnant it does not prevent your menstrual cycle and again woman do not loose Jing thru sex they can loose Qi from sex but not Jing.
There are many ways a person can loose Jing ejaculation for men is the main reason. You do not have to give up sex. This is a point of confusion. However it is important to not have it during the first 100 days.
Once you have built a foundation then you can engage in sexual acts because you would have known how to control your 3 treasures.
I can go on and on about this because the topic and teaching is alot.
So I will simply say this and let all other concern or question be addressed in private. If you have a good teacher than he knows what is the correct path for you and how far along he can take you on that.
Nuff said.


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## tellner (May 14, 2007)

Frankly, Jade, a lot of it is weird, ignorant, pre-scientific, ignorant superstition. That's not to fault the people who came up with it. They were at the cutting edge in their day. Now we know infinitely more about the human body. "It takes forty days and forty drops of blood to make one drop of semen"? No. It takes about a day and a half and doesn't put any real sort of load on the metabolism. The innaccuracies of TCM physiology would fill volumes. The spleen is not the governing organ. Ejaculation does not drain you metabolically. The kidney and pericardium do not do what is claimed. There is no organ known as the triple heater. And so on. And on.

We didn't know better then. We do now. It really is as simple as that.


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## Xue Sheng (May 14, 2007)

tellner said:


> Frankly, Jade, a lot of it is weird, ignorant, pre-scientific, ignorant superstition. That's not to fault the people who came up with it. They were at the cutting edge in their day. Now we know infinitely more about the human body. "It takes forty days and forty drops of blood to make one drop of semen"? No. It takes about a day and a half and doesn't put any real sort of load on the metabolism. The innaccuracies of TCM physiology would fill volumes. The spleen is not the governing organ. Ejaculation does not drain you metabolically. The kidney and pericardium do not do what is claimed. There is no organ known as the triple heater. And so on. And on.
> 
> We didn't know better then. We do now. It really is as simple as that.


 
TCM OMDs from Beijing University are also trained in Western Medicine. I am not qualified to really discuss any of this, that would be my wife, but she thinks posting on a web page is a bit weird so it is not likely she would respond at all. 

However much of what you are talking about is used in diagnostics and they do know what the organs really do. 

Also my Taiji sifu is a Trained TCM guy from the old school in Southern China (basically he followed a Sifu for years) and he is an MD here in the US and he still talks about the stuff you mentioned in relation to TCM.


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## Xue Sheng (May 14, 2007)

I also should add

TCM Docs in Beijing today recognize the fact that there are cases where you need an antibiotic, X-rays and Lab tests and they prescribe them too. There are also certain things they realize Western Medicine handles better and Western Docs there realize that there are some things that TCM is better at and they work very well together.


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## qi-tah (May 14, 2007)

JadecloudAlchemist said:


> Actually there is a safer method of stopping it
> but that requires instuction from a teacher. The pill prevents you from becoming pregnant it does not prevent your menstrual cycle and again woman do not loose Jing thru sex they can loose Qi from sex but not Jing.


 
You are obviously not conversant with the way most women use the pill... the sugar pills are skipped and they just stay continually on the hormone pills, thus preventing menstruation.  Actually i'm actually finding your language rather difficult to follow, for instance in your previous post it wasn't clear what exactly was "becoming semen", i assumed you meant ejaculate. You can understand my confusion!

I don't know that any system is perfect, either Western medicine or TCM. Really, i guess you just have to go with what works. The benifits of acupuncture, Tui na and herbs i can understand. I can look at the senior students in my school and see the benifits of practicing Ba gua, not to mention feel them in my body. A system that demands significant sacrifices over an extended period of time for an uncertain gain is not, however, something that i am likely to try.


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## tellner (May 14, 2007)

Xue Sheng: Absolutely. TCM certainly has value. And the Chinese medical schools turn out excellent doctors who are skilled in both Chinese and Western medicine. You just have to be careful not to take thousand year old explanations of physiology any more seriously than you would the four humors, non-circulating blood and Galen's Amazing Detachable Uterus. At best they're analogies.


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## qi-tah (May 14, 2007)

Hey JadeCloudAlchemist; do you practice these Taoist sexual exercises to preserve your Jing etc? If so, i'd be really interested to hear about what you feel you have gained from such exercises and how important you feel that they are as a part of your overall Qi gong practice.


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## Xue Sheng (May 15, 2007)

tellner said:


> Xue Sheng: Absolutely. TCM certainly has value. And the Chinese medical schools turn out excellent doctors who are skilled in both Chinese and Western medicine. You just have to be careful not to take thousand year old explanations of physiology any more seriously than you would the four humors, non-circulating blood and Galen's Amazing Detachable Uterus. At best they're analogies.


 
OH and I suppose the NEXT Thing you'll try and tell me is that there are more elements than Metal, Water, Wood, Fire and Earth :uhyeah:

But to be serious for a moment, I agree with what you posted

A short, off topic side story and then I am done.

I told my wife that when TCM first came to America just a about every MD said TCM was worthless garbage. She said that is interesting because when Western Medicine came to China, just about every TCM Doc said Western Medicine was Worthless Garbage as well.


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## oxy (May 15, 2007)

tellner said:


> "It takes forty days and forty drops of blood to make one drop of semen"? No. It takes about a day and a half and doesn't put any real sort of load on the metabolism.



I remember some people interpreting this as having been originated as a "scare tactic" used by the conservative people of that time to curb sexual activity. Did Chinese doctors believe this stuff about 40 drops of blood back then? A lot of them probably did, but their predecessors probably understood it as propaganda (see below).



> The innaccuracies of TCM physiology would fill volumes. The spleen is not the governing organ. Ejaculation does not drain you metabolically. The kidney and pericardium do not do what is claimed. There is no organ known as the triple heater. And so on. And on.



That may be true, but the principle of TCM's focus on organ health seems to be overlooked in Western Medicine, just as bacterial and viral causes seem to be overlooked in TCM.

TCMedicines are theoretically more gentle on the organs than western refined chemical medicines. I say theoretically because using the wrong TCMedicines can cause serious damage as well (and is a lot more common than the "advertisements" say). TCMedicines are largely ineffective against the more resistant bacteria and viruses (things like hospital superbugs and HIV, obviously). Although it must be said that the Chinese were successfully vaccinating against smallpox (albeit using the wrong medicine theories) long before it was discovered in Europe.

Anyway, conversely, western medicines of a refined chemical nature do a lot of damage to bad bacteria etc, but also harm normal cells more.

As I understand it, a lot of TCM herbal remedies consist largely of herbs that softens the blow to the stomach and kidneys (and sometimes liver) from the other part of the mixture. Makes sense since TCM herbal mixtures are taken orally and bypasses the stomach first and then mostly through the kidneys. Hence, only a relatively minor amount of the useful medicine is absorbed where it needs to be. The rest goes through to the kidney which is forced to suffer the side effects if none of the other herbs are added.



> We didn't know better then. We do now. It really is as simple as that.



You also have to understand that the reason why a lot of medicines, from the East or West, fails is that patients are inherently stupid.

It was almost necessary that physicians (from older China) was taught to give "over the top" reasons to patients in the hopes of scaring them into following advice directly. It didn't help that certain dynastic laws held that execution was a suitable punishment for doctors who failed to cure a patient. Western medicine doctors suffer from the ignorant patients as well.

These stupid patients are largely those who fancy themselves as knowing enough about medicine to convince themselves that what they do (in the face of professional advice) will be all right. I have read the testimonies of many "converts" to TCM and the conclusion I have reached is that a lot of them were too stupid to follow good advice (like eating right, exercising regularly and challenging your mind) and after their fear of mortality kicked in, they finally decided to follow advice incidentally after switching to alternative medicines.

This is not to put down real situations where TCM was able to cure illnesses that western medicine couldn't.

Maybe we do know more now, but people are just as comparatively stupid.


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## Nobody (May 15, 2007)

The people i know from China told me the medical schools over there are so intense that the student have the highest suicide rate in China.  The medical schools are very intense over there.  This is not to say that Allopathy(conventional medicine) in America is easy.

On topic now, yea not sure if celibacy all the time was what they meant maybe like all boxer do to day just for 8 weeks prior to the fight.  At least Mayweathers said something to this on Tonight show.

Also, i think most of those old saying an ideas by the TCM was more to be describe of the idea an to build a method for understanding at that time in history you know mans need to explain his world an all.  Just cause you do not get it does not mean that they did not know what the organ was or what they looked like after all the first known forms of surgery was done in China an on the Emperor they would remove the organs while he was at a certain age and wash them.  Soft tissue surgery is what i mean.  That we know there was allot of brain surgery from the bones left behind from the past in many different areas of the world not just China.

Personally i think that both medicine have a place.  They can work good for certain thing in both cases.


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## Xue Sheng (May 16, 2007)

Nobody said:


> The people i know from China told me the medical schools over there are so intense that the student have the highest suicide rate in China. The medical schools are very intense over there. This is not to say that Allopathy(conventional medicine) in America is easy.


 
My wife graduated from one of those and there were no suicides, one kid did get a syndrome from to much Qi training but no suicides. But that is only one school (Beijing University of Traditional Chinese Medicine - supposedly the best in China) I have no idea what it is like in any others.

However you are correct the curriculum that she went through for just her undergrad - our equivalent Bachelors degree was evaluated at slightly over a masters degree here by the federal government.


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## tellner (May 16, 2007)

This is China we're talking about, right? A three thousand year tradition of competitive examinations for everything? Thought so...

Seriously, my wife left high school a year or two early when her family moved back to the States from Tanzania. On the basis of that she essentially skipped the first year of a very rigorous American college.


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## Xue Sheng (May 16, 2007)

tellner said:


> This is China we're talking about, right? A three thousand year tradition of competitive examinations for everything? Thought so...
> 
> Seriously, my wife left high school a year or two early when her family moved back to the States from Tanzania. On the basis of that she essentially skipped the first year of a very rigorous American college.


 

Maybe they confused it with Japan, the suicide rate there is climbing, but that is mostly due to pressure in High School not College.


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## Nobody (May 16, 2007)

Let me try to remember what she said in combine English an Chinese(Mandarin).  I was not totally sure what she said do to my newness to hearing Mandarin, but i had studied for some time it is different than hearing it.  She did say there was a lot people that end up dropping out an something about what i thought was suicide.  It was probably my misunderstanding her than.

O, yea the thing i liked about her was that she an her husband had been in America for about 10 years and her English was just moderate to bad.

Yea i have heard that to about the completion of there degree in China.

Xue Sheng so yea i might have got that wrong.

I do think that at one time America lead the world in education in the primary schools but as we seem to progress scenes about 1980 we now seem to be falling way behind.


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## Xue Sheng (May 16, 2007)

Nobody said:


> Xue Sheng so yea i might have got that wrong.


 
No biggie, I can't tell you how many times I have misinterpreted my wife and her English is rather good.


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## CuongNhuka (May 19, 2007)

JadecloudAlchemist said:


> Here is the theory: When you perform a sexual act and ejaculate your Jing or essence transform into its state known as semen. You are suppose to for 100 days of training not engage in acts of loosing your Jing this in theory will build the foundation for culitvation of Qi. Now this does not mean giving up sex which is a common misunderstanding it simply means do not loose your Jing. Jing also leaks out thru the Ming men even more so in cold weather hence sick people sometimes wear a special wrap around the Tan tien and Ming men. to answer your question on number#1 I have no idea how many nor how many have guys practicing ways to be immortal together with plugs in their anus and someone pinching their spine as Charles Luk describes. To answer your question for number#2 Woman are a little bit different they do not loose Jing the same way a male does in reference to sex that is. A woman recieves Jing that is how a baby is born. Should a woman not engage in sexual acts to perform what you said in your post? I would say yes if you are trying do this exercise regardless it still takes 100 days. Now this 100 days I refer to is building the foundation and opening the small heavenly circuit if you perform this correctly you should have control of when your Jing leaves thru sexual acts. By all means you can still open the circuit without going thru the 100 days process it is not impossible but it will not lead to higher stages of culitvations and may take longer to accomplish.


 
This is the metaphysical explaination. Here's the creepy part. There is a physical reason to be celibate/monogamous. When you (in refernce to guys) ejaculate you lose semen. Semen has a lot of vitamins your body could be useing for other things. Which is the general excuse science nerds give for not having a girl freind. I kid, I kid. It's creepy though what you can learn from a book on Tai Chi.
Part of this (going back to metaphysics) is it also shows your devotion. Catholic preists aren't supposed to have sex to show ther devotion to God. Same theory behind Lent.


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## pstarr (May 20, 2007)

Yep - I stil make my students practice the 100 day abstinence during the beginning of qigong training-  After many years of comparing those who did vs. those who didn't, I have to say that the intrinsic force of those who did undergo the abstinence was much stronger...


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## Xue Sheng (May 20, 2007)

pstarr said:


> Yep - I stil make my students practice the 100 day abstinence during the beginning of qigong training- After many years of comparing those who did vs. those who didn't, I have to say that the intrinsic force of those who did undergo the abstinence was much stronger...


 
I generally find I fully agree with you but on this I am not.

Of course I am only basing this on me and I do not have a group of students to compare. When I tried celibacy I found I was less focused and it was CONSIDERABLY more difficult to relax and concentrate on anything. I will add the only time I can say that I had more difficulty with focus was at the beginning of relationships. But in general celibacy was not of benefit to me for the study of qigong or Taiji. But again I am only talking about me.


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## pstarr (May 21, 2007)

Of course, we have a lot of fun with the students trying it for the first time...seems like once they start, available females suddenly appear...!  One poor fellow made it 68 days and then had a nocturnal emission!   

I think it's a subject that's not well understood...I tell the students that after they've been married for some time, such lengthy "dry times" are really normal!  :uhyeah:


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## qi-tah (May 21, 2007)

Hello pstarr 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






pstarr said:


> Yep - I stil make my students practice the 100 day abstinence during the beginning of qigong training- After many years of comparing those who did vs. those who didn't, I have to say that the intrinsic force of those who did undergo the abstinence was much stronger...


 
If you don't mind me asking, i would like to know what you mean by "intrinsic force" - is that like overall health, or thier ability to do certain exercises, or some other external measure? 
Also, do you have female students? If so, how does the abstinence thing work for them, since they don't ejaculate? I know all about the "getting jing" theory for women during hetero sex, but what about lesbians? Is being a lesbian in Taoist theory the equivilent to being a lifelong celibate?? (ie. Nothing gained, nothing lost through sex)

Be interested to hear yr thoughts.


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## Xue Sheng (May 21, 2007)

pstarr said:


> I tell the students that after they've been married for some time, such lengthy "dry times" are really normal! :uhyeah:


 
ok, now we agree :uhyeah:


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## Nobody (May 28, 2007)

So, does abstaining help in developing energy in the person that does go a on to be celibate for some time?


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## tellner (May 28, 2007)

Xue Sheng said:


> ok, now we agree :uhyeah:


Shades of Jeff Foxworthy on how gay men and married men have a lot in common...

"If you sleep on a bed with a dust ruffle and seven pillows you're either gay or married.

If you've ever missed the big game to go antique shopping you're either gay or married. 

If you can't remember the last time you had sex with a woman you're either gay or married."


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## tellner (May 28, 2007)

Nobody said:


> So, does abstaining help in developing energy in the person that does go a on to be celibate for some time?



I don't know about developing energy. But it does make you meaner.


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## Nobody (May 28, 2007)

I get that cause when i go without i get snappy, i mean verbally snappy.  Not so much mean an that was what i wanted someone to say the person will get kinda aggressive going without.  Going without = celibate!


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## Callandor (May 28, 2007)

Interesting thread!


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## Em MacIntosh (May 30, 2007)

Holding on too your jing can increase your sex drive immensely and you can use that energy to develop tremendous perineal and abdomen power.  A good chinese doctor can help you transform this energy into a form more palletteble to the rest of your body.  Once it has been transformed into chi energy (through proper breathing and muscle contraction) it can be distributed through any part of your body's facia (membranes that surround each of your organs, all your organs together, muscular tissue and subdermal layers).  You also need to develop your microcosmic orbit, inner smile and learn and perform the healing sounds.  There are also imperfections of the body that can inhibit proper chi flow (I have crooked teeth, for example, and can feel where my energy flow is cinched and builds up like a dam around my forehead).  I don't know much about chi yet so I don't reccomend or condone anything but that's my opinion on how celebacy (or just not losing you jing) can help your internal arts.


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