# Chinese American Goju



## dancingalone (Nov 19, 2007)

Wow, that's nothing like the Okinawan Goju I study.  Anyone study this style of Goju?


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## Brian S (Nov 19, 2007)

http://www.chinesegoju.com/history/default.asp

http://www.chinesegoju.org/intro.htm

http://www.chinesegoju.org/vanclief.htm

 Evidently Ron Van Clief had influences from his earlier TKD. Doesn't look anything like the American Goju I study either.

 I'm sure he is an exceptional martial artist and the style suits him.


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## tshadowchaser (Nov 19, 2007)

Interesting that Owen Watson is not mentioned anymore in the history of Chinese Goju. He was, shall we say, Van Clief's partner and was considered back in the early days to have had as much influence on the art .
Van Clief and Watson where both highly trained and damn good at fighting. Both had exceptional forms and where a pleasure to watch.
Also both where friendly to talk with most of the time


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## Brandon Fisher (Nov 20, 2007)

Awful lot of kiai for traditional kata.  His technique is not bad though.


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## cstanley (Nov 21, 2007)

Hey, it's garbage...pure and simple.


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## clfsean (Nov 21, 2007)

Chinese American Goju... that's so full of oxymorons it's not funny... 

Goju is Okinawan. There's a Japanese branch/variation but Goju doesn't have a Chinese branch.

How can somebody take something & "Chinese" it & then "Americanize" it & call it by 2 different originating names??? Plain damn silly... 

Chinese American Goju... right there with Korean Japanese Tai Chi (by that name) or Chinese Thai Shotokan (by that name)... 

Nothing about fight abilities or skills... that's people... but the rest... pfah...


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## Xue Sheng (Nov 21, 2007)

I know virtually nothing about Goju Ryu Katas but from what I saw it looked pretty impressive and was very well done, not at all sloppy. But I did not see anything I would call Chinese other than the claim in the beginning that links it to White Crane.

So I guess the title Chinese American Goju Ryu seems a bit silly to me but whatever floats your boat I guess.... well I am off to go train My Taekwonquanqijitsu now  sorry I couldn't resist.


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## stone_dragone (Nov 21, 2007)

When I was in my Native American Koga ryu muay tai kwon jutsu do class last week, I started learning a similar form that was practiced in Egypt by early Christian Pirates around 4500 BC.  I think that the Chinese American Goju folks _may_ have actually learned it from them.


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## elder999 (Nov 21, 2007)

tshadowchaser said:


> Interesting that Owen Watson is not mentioned anymore in the history of Chinese Goju.


 

He was crazy!! He passed away from diabetes back in 2005. 

He used to sign his name "o-wen wat-son," and wear his hair in some kind of afro-samurai topknot hybrid.....nice guy, but a bit loopy....

think he was mostly affiliated with Frank Ruiz's _Nisei goju_, though.....


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## Brandon Fisher (Nov 21, 2007)

stone_dragone said:


> When I was in my Native American Koga ryu muay tai kwon jutsu do class last week, I started learning a similar form that was practiced in Egypt by early Christian Pirates around 4500 BC. I think that the Chinese American Goju folks _may_ have actually learned it from them.


LOL


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## Revenant (Aug 16, 2008)

elder999 said:


> He was crazy!! He passed away from diabetes back in 2005.
> 
> He used to sign his name "o-wen wat-son," and wear his hair in some kind of afro-samurai topknot hybrid.....nice guy, but a bit loopy....
> 
> think he was mostly affiliated with Frank Ruiz's _Nisei goju_, though.....


Owen's dead? Delgado also from what I've read and Frank as well. Guess I waited too long to say hello.....


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## tshadowchaser (Aug 16, 2008)

> think he was mostly affiliated with Frank Ruiz's _Nisei goju_,


I belive that is correct from what I remember

I did not know he was dead  I am sorry to hear that.  He was always respectful and courteous to talk to. He was one hell of a fighter.


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## hogstooth (Aug 27, 2008)

That was interesting. I don't think that can be classified as Goju-Ryu but interesting non the less.


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## twendkata71 (Aug 27, 2008)

From what I have read. Van Clief named it chinese goju, because his base was Goju ryu, he went to Hong Kong and studied VingTsun Kung fu and some others, along with some Muy Thai while making movies in ThaiLand. So he added a more chinese element to his goju  and hence the name Chinese Goju .    He has always been an exceptional karate talent. A bit egocentric. Like his karate instructors.


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## Brian S (Aug 28, 2008)

hogstooth said:


> That was interesting. I don't think that can be classified as Goju-Ryu but interesting non the less.


 
 There was no mention of a ryu that I saw. People are too hung up on these things imo.
 His style is just his interpretation of the arts and the time he has put in.

 Funny, no one has a problem with Bruce Lee after only a short study of WT making his own style. I dunno...


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## twendkata71 (Aug 29, 2008)

You make a good point. Irreguardless of weither or not his style is of his own creation or a hodgepodge of styles. He is a very talented martial artist and his system is very effective and useful.


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## Brandon Fisher (Aug 29, 2008)

twendkata71 said:


> You make a good point. Irreguardless of weither or not his style is of his own creation or a hodgepodge of styles. He is a very talented martial artist and his system is very effective and useful.


No doubt I have seen VanClief in action in person and he is so fluid and fast.  Yet takes a very simple not complicated approach to his techniques which certainly contributes to the effectivness.


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## Brian S (Aug 29, 2008)

Do you guys remember him in one of the first ufc's? At age 50 he looked phenomenal!  Too bad he didn't know the ground game,but who did at the time. I'll bet he could have more than held his own standing against alot of the ufc champions.


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## tshadowchaser (Aug 30, 2008)

That was a long time ago I am surprised that anyone remembered it.

I think he would have held his own standing


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## SenseiRuss (Jan 18, 2013)

This thread got off to a false start. The video is of a Chinese AMERICAN Goju practitioner, Gary Card, which is William Louie's USA-Goju-derived style, NOT Ron Van Clief's. Ron Van Clief's style is called Chinese Goju, which, though also has some roots in USA Goju. Gary card studied William Louie's flavor of "Goju" NOT Ron Van Clief's, which another thing entirely. The video does not have anything to do with Van Clief, not his style.

-RB


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## K-man (Jan 18, 2013)

The first thing I noticed was the badge which is based on Yamaguchi's design.  Then the kata don't have anything in common with Okinawan Goju. in fact they are nothing like the Japanese Goju either. So I did some reading and came up with this from an interview with Gary Card.



> Martialforce.com: Is Chinese American Goju a combination of systems? Can you tell us what in your opinion makes its practice unique?
> 
> 
> GARY CARD: The Chinese American Goju system is not really a combination of systems but more a system with influences.  According to Shihan Bill Louie, the system is 80% USA Goju and the other percentage is a combination of kung-fu, jujitsu and judo.  Shihan Bill Louie's major influence is his instructor, Maestro Peter Urban. Shihan Louie teaches his classes in basically the same format as Maestro Urban.  He has kept his technique and kata basically the same as what Maestro Urban taught him.  Shihan Louie is truly the best person to demonstrate the system; his movements and punctuation of technique are phenomenal.
> http://www.martialforce.com/GARY CARD INTERVIEW ON MARTIALFORCE.COM.htm


The system is obviously a hybrid and as long as it doesn't claim to be a traditional style I have no problem with that. The kata are rather flamboyant and that ties in with the fact that these guys were big into competition. 


Regarding Ron Van Clief though. Mmm!


> Okinawa and Japan marks the origin of the Goju style founded by the honorable Chojun Miyagi (1888-1953). Honorable Miyagi reformed his former styles after mastering "Chinese Kempo" and "Naha-te", he named the style "Goju-Ryu Karate".
> 
> 
> Meitoku Yagi* became the successor of Okinawan Goju-Ryu Karate, after the death of the honorable Miyagi. Moreover, Gogen Yamaguchi** was designated as the successor of Japenese Goju-Ryu in Japan. In 1935 Gogen Yamaguchi established the "All Japan Goju-Kai Karate-do Association" in Kyoto, Japan.
> ...


Then we have this collection of misinformation that suggests that what is being shown is a return to the roots of Goju. In fact it is as far away from what Miyagi passed down as anything I have seen.



> * Yagi was never Miyagi's successor. He thought he should have been but Eiichi Miyazato was elected as successor in Yagi's presence following Miyagi's death. (Chuck Merriman released the minutes of that meeting some years back.)
> 
> ** Yamaguchi was never designated as the successor of Japanese Goju in Japan. He was the originator of Japanese Goju in Japan but he was not one of Miyagi's students as far as the records show. He was a student of Jitsuei Yogi who was a student of Miyagi.
> 
> *** This appears to say that Urban established his system under Yamaguchi but in fact Yamaguchi did not give him permission. He established his system regardless and it is significantly different to Yamaguchi's.


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## punisher73 (Jan 21, 2013)

Here is a video of GM VanClief doing his style's ippon.


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## punisher73 (Jan 21, 2013)

Brian S said:


> Do you guys remember him in one of the first ufc's? At age 50 he looked phenomenal!  Too bad he didn't know the ground game,but who did at the time. I'll bet he could have more than held his own standing against alot of the ufc champions.



I do, I have been watching the UFC's since the first came out when I was 20.  Didn't get to see much showcasing of his talents since he was armbarred very quickly by Royce (not a slam, but most were back then).  Would have been interesting to see him fight another striker in the tournament first.


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