# Why do they not teach Commando Krav Maga or Jujutsu Krav Maga in the US?



## moonhill99 (Apr 12, 2015)

Why do they not teach Commando Krav Maga or Jujutsu Krav Maga in the US?

Jujutsu Krav Maga






Commando Krav Maga





It seems if people want this they have to go to Israel and train there.

Well the Jujutsu Krav Maga looks really awesome!!

And well some of this may be too rough for self defense but normally it is the practitioner that chooses how rough you want to go!! 

I think in US if you wanted a package like that you would have to take Judo,Jujutsu and Krav Maga.

But again I think normally it is the practitioner that chooses how rough you want to go!!

Some schools may be throw him to ground and strike and walk away. Other schools may be strike,throw him to ground and strike one or two times and walk away. Other schools just throw him to the ground.

If he gets up and goes after you than repeat the above.

The Krav Maga  in Israel seems more rough. More Commando Krav Maga or Jujutsu Krav Maga

May be they don't teach this in the US because it is too rough. But there is nothing stopping some one from taking MMA and the practitioner adding strike or two!!!


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## K-man (Apr 12, 2015)

Hmm! Not sure where you are getting your information from but Commando Krav Maga has heaps of schools in the U.S. The only issue with CKM are the credentials of the founder Moni Aizik and the marketing ideology of his organisation. I have no issues with most of what he teaches. It is no different from the other branches of Krav that you find around the place. I don't know why you would say it is too rough. If CKM is too rough so is all other Krav.

As to Jujutsu Krav Maga, I have never come across it. The top video is just straight Krav and the guy is from Los Angeles.

REKM - Official IDF Krav Maga Instructors Krav Maga LA

Naturally intructors will add bits from other styles of MAs they have trained or been shown. No two instructors will be the same. I teach a lot of restraints because you don't always have to totally destroy someone. In fact, if you do, it is likely you will be in trouble also. Skills in Jujutsu or Aikido are easily transferable to Krav.


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## oftheherd1 (Apr 13, 2015)

Moonhill99, where are you in your MA journey?  Do you study a martial art?  Have you attained belted status?  I get the impression you are very new, and haven't yet bought into any art you may be studying.  I am a Hapkidoist and I am happy being one.  I think of it as a very good and very effective MA.  But I have no doubt that had I continued my TKD studies as they were taught when I studied TKD, I would be a very effective martial artist, and take back seat to nobody.  I would no doubt have learned some things from other arts as well, but still considered myself an accomplished TKD MA.  Having studied both, I prefer HKD.  But if a striking art is all that is available, take it and get good at it.  I have told students not to discount TKD or other striking arts.  If all you train is blocks, kicks, and strike for years, it only makes sense you will be very fast and good at it.

If I am wrong, my apologies, but you seem to have that new-to-martial-arts awe of other arts that seem to do things your art doesn't do.  If you are a long time and accomplished MA, the above may seem insulting.  It isn't intended to be; only a suggestion that you take any martial art available to you and get really good at it before deciding it is of no value.  Also, as you progress in most striking arts, you will likely find yourself being taught things such as some grappling techniques.


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## MJS (Apr 13, 2015)

moonhill99 said:


> Why do they not teach Commando Krav Maga or Jujutsu Krav Maga in the US?
> 
> Jujutsu Krav Maga
> 
> ...



Well, let's see....CKM has tons of controversy around it.  I've heard good and bad things about it.  There are places around the US, that do teach this, but like anything, buyer beware.  Jujitsu KM?  Umm....what's that?  LOL!  Many KM schools have incorporated ground work into their training.  There are lots of people offering KM, however, as I said, buyer beware.  Sorry, but the people that take a short course, and buy some inst. cert. and then claim to be a KM expert, well, let's just say that it's very important to do your homework before joining.  Why give your hard earned money to someone who's a fake?


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## frank raud (Apr 13, 2015)

There are 125 instructors of Commando Krav Maga in the U.S. I discovered this by using something called the internet and going to the Commando Krav Maga website. You could try it.


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## moonhill99 (Apr 13, 2015)

K-man said:


> Hmm! Not sure where you are getting your information from but Commando Krav Maga has heaps of schools in the U.S. The only issue with CKM are the credentials of the founder Moni Aizik and the marketing ideology of his organisation. I have no issues with most of what he teaches. It is no different from the other branches of Krav that you find around the place. I don't know why you would say it is too rough. If CKM is too rough so is all other Krav.
> 
> As to Jujutsu Krav Maga, I have never come across it. The top video is just straight Krav and the guy is from Los Angeles.
> 
> ...



Krav Maga in self is a rough style hitting the groins,hitting the knees,jabs to the throat,hitting the eyes,neck twisting, knee strikes, scratches/pokes to eyes so on. 

attacks to  vulnerable points, such as: the eyes, neck or throat, face, solar plexus, groin, ribs, knee, foot, fingers, etc.

Fast hard kicks and punches.

There is very little if any throws,wrist locks and take downs.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Apr 13, 2015)

Interestingly enough in the US there were a few weekend seminars taught where after three day's school owners were given Krav Maga instructor credentials.  Next thing you know there were Krav schools everywhere and some of them have very low quality.  Always check out thoroughly any instructor before you train with them.


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## moonhill99 (Apr 13, 2015)

K-man said:


> Hmm! Not sure where you are getting your information from but Commando Krav Maga has heaps of schools in the U.S. The only issue with CKM are the credentials of the founder Moni Aizik and the marketing ideology of his organisation. I have no issues with most of what he teaches. It is no different from the other branches of Krav that you find around the place. I don't know why you would say it is too rough. If CKM is too rough so is all other Krav.
> 
> As to Jujutsu Krav Maga, I have never come across it. The top video is just straight Krav and the guy is from Los Angeles.
> 
> ...



Yeah that video is too fancy. Any thing I read from Krav Maga instructors don't waste your time on those throws and wrist locks in street fight that slow you down and you get hit trying to do it.

That not Krav Maga. That is Krav Maga  mixed in with Jujutsu.

Krav Maga has very little throws and take down nothing fancy like Judo or Jujutsu.

Israeli Krav Maga  & Commando Krav Maga

Israeli Krav Maga vs. Commando Krav Maga

*About 20 years ago I went through Krav Maga civilian self-defense instructor class ran by late Eli Avikzar based on his KAMI (or I.K.M.F., as it known in the US) style. This class drew in a diverse group of combat sport and martial art enthusiasts ranging from under 20 to over 50 years old and from fresh high school graduate to well known public figure, like novelist and boxer Eli Luxemburg. 





Eli Avikzar was a prolific fighter with strong background in Aikido and (sport) karate with some Judo expose. As he described to us (bunch of Judo, karate, wushu, and boxing instructors and coaches) what defines and differentiates his fighting style from the rest of martial arts, he said that in Aikido and Judo you will throw attacker out, in karate you’ll block him, and in KAMI you’ll beat him down to the ground, you’ll “punish” him (and he stressed the “punishment” notion). The second thing was the strong emphasis on the natural movement vs. formal (stronger than in other, more formal, martial art styles, but for me it is a questionable difference – just poor understanding or misrepresentation of Judo and Aikido may “find” non-natural movements here). *


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## moonhill99 (Apr 13, 2015)

MJS said:


> Well, let's see....CKM has tons of controversy around it.  I've heard good and bad things about it.  There are places around the US, that do teach this, but like anything, buyer beware.  Jujitsu KM?  Umm....what's that?  LOL!  Many KM schools have incorporated ground work into their training.  There are lots of people offering KM, however, as I said, buyer beware.  Sorry, but the people that take a short course, and buy some inst. cert. and then claim to be a KM expert, well, let's just say that it's very important to do your homework before joining.  Why give your hard earned money to someone who's a fake?



May be that some thing new they are doing? Learning to fight on the ground?

Or is it only the Commando Krav Maga?


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## moonhill99 (Apr 13, 2015)

Brian R. VanCise said:


> Interestingly enough in the US there were a few weekend seminars taught where after three day's school owners were given Krav Maga instructor credentials.  Next thing you know there were Krav schools everywhere and some of them have very low quality.  Always check out thoroughly any instructor before you train with them.



Or for people into Krav Maga to find a instructor higher than G level.


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## Tony Dismukes (Apr 13, 2015)

moonhill99 said:


> Krav Maga in self is a rough style hitting the groins,hitting the knees,jabs to the throat,hitting the eyes,neck twisting, knee strikes, scratches/pokes to eyes so on.
> 
> attacks to  vulnerable points, such as: the eyes, neck or throat, face, solar plexus, groin, ribs, knee, foot, fingers, etc.
> 
> ...


If I might make a suggestion ...

I believe you have not yet begun training in a martial art and are just looking at different styles online to see if any of them appeal to you. Is that correct?

Given that you do not yet have personal experience in any art (let alone Krav Maga specifically) it might be a good idea to refrain from lecturing someone (K-man) who is an actual instructor in Krav about what the art encompasses.


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## moonhill99 (Apr 13, 2015)

Tony Dismukes said:


> If I might make a suggestion ...
> 
> I believe you have not yet begun training in a martial art and are just looking at different styles online to see if any of them appeal to you. Is that correct?
> 
> Given that you do not yet have personal experience in any art (let alone Krav Maga specifically) it might be a good idea to refrain from lecturing someone (K-man) who is an actual instructor in Krav about what the art encompasses.



Tony sorry if I came across lecturing anyone it just some of the web sites I read got this info from.

I'm sure some other members here can clarify.

But from what I read Krav Maga has little to no throws and take downs. That not part of the program. Nothing fancy like Judo or Jujutsu.

May be some other members here can clarify on this .


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## Xue Sheng (Apr 13, 2015)

I'm not a Krav Maga guy, but you may want to look into things from Boaz Aviram 

and this is a takedown






Look through his videos and you will find joint locks too


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## K-man (Apr 13, 2015)

moonhill99 said:


> Krav Maga in self is a rough style hitting the groins,hitting the knees,jabs to the throat,hitting the eyes,neck twisting, knee strikes, scratches/pokes to eyes so on.
> 
> attacks to  vulnerable points, such as: the eyes, neck or throat, face, solar plexus, groin, ribs, knee, foot, fingers, etc.
> 
> ...



Okinawa not Karate is also a rough style and I'm sure a few other people here may consider their style to be rough. Everything you listed is in my karate including the throws wrist locks and takedowns.

There are several things in Krav that are signature to Krav. They are cerebellum blocking and 360 defence, and there are some combinations of techniques that tie back into the 360 defence. To my mind the rest of Krav is an accumulation of techniques from Boxing, Wrestling, Karate, Muay Thai, Judo, Ju-jutsu and Bjj, plus a few other bits from others. 

When you first start you are learning basic drills like in any other martial art. Basic Krav is explosive and straight to the point. It does have some throws, it has takedowns and a lot of the disarms are built around wrist locks. As you advance, you learn more techniques, just the same as any other martial art.



moonhill99 said:


> Yeah that video is too fancy. Any thing I read from Krav Maga instructors don't waste your time on those throws and wrist locks in street fight that slow you down and you get hit trying to do it.
> 
> That not Krav Maga. That is Krav Maga  mixed in with Jujutsu.
> 
> Krav Maga has very little throws and take down nothing fancy like Judo or Jujutsu.


Mmm! The video was a combination of two styles of martial arts. I think it was to demonstrate the common links. 

If someone grabs you around the neck from behind, you might use a hip throw, if someone is attacking you with a knife you would almost certainly use a some form of lock.

Krav Maga is not a pure breed dog. It is a mongrel. It takes techniques from everywhere.



moonhill99 said:


> May be that some thing new they are doing? Learning to fight on the ground?
> 
> Or is it only the Commando Krav Maga?


Krav has always incorporated ground fighting. Initially it would have been mainly derived from wrestling but as it developed it used judo and, more recently, BJJ techniques. 

Krav is a living style of martial art. It has a basic frame and adds bits and pieces as it develops. In that area it could be compared with BJJ which started about the same time and has continued to develop ever since.


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## moonhill99 (Apr 13, 2015)

K-man said:


> Okinawa not Karate is also a rough style and I'm sure a few other people here may consider their style to be rough. Everything you listed is in my karate including the throws wrist locks and takedowns.
> 
> There are several things in Krav that are signature to Krav. They are cerebellum blocking and 360 defence, and there are some combinations of techniques that tie back into the 360 defence. To my mind the rest of Krav is an accumulation of techniques from Boxing, Wrestling, Karate, Muay Thai, Judo, Ju-jutsu and Bjj, plus a few other bits from others.
> 
> ...



K-man would you say you learn Judo and Jujutsu moves in Krav Maga? Or is it only some Krav Maga schools?

Or is it some thing advanced students learn like after 4 years or more?


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## K-man (Apr 13, 2015)

moonhill99 said:


> K-man would you say you learn Judo and Jujutsu moves in Krav Maga? Or is it only some Krav Maga schools?
> 
> Or is it some thing advanced students learn like after 4 years or more?


I don't know the answer to that. It would depend on the instructors background. I doubt anyone would be teaching straight Judo or Jujutsu. That just doesn't make sense, but there are elements a Judo or Jujutsu that fit perfectly with many martial arts.

Now my only exposure to Judo was back in the 60s. I still teach the same break falls in Krav. The hip throws you see in Krav are pretty much the same as you will see in Judo. 

You raise a very interesting point with the question on when do you teach advanced techniques. I actually start from day one. My theory is that it can take a long time to become fluent enough to utilise a lot of seemingly simple techniques. Sure, you might get lucky but a lot of the locks and holds require lots of practice. 

If you look at that from the perspective of the new student. They get in a bad situation, the adrenalin kicks in and the gross motor skills are first and foremost, kick, knee, punch, bite, etc. Hopefully that was all that was required. Now we go up a notch. Someone who has been training for say two years. They will be very confident in their basic skills. The adrenalin rush won't last so long. They may now be able to utilise more controlling techniques, if that is appropriate. Extend that to someone who has trained for five years or more. Now they will be starting to have confidence in their ability to control their opponent without the need to destroy him.

Krav training is not all that different to other martial art training. It's major point of difference is that it is designed to give you basic skills very quickly.


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## moonhill99 (Apr 13, 2015)

K-man said:


> I don't know the answer to that. It would depend on the instructors background. I doubt anyone would be teaching straight Judo or Jujutsu. That just doesn't make sense, but there are elements a Judo or Jujutsu that fit perfectly with many martial arts.
> 
> Now my only exposure to Judo was back in the 60s. I still teach the same break falls in Krav. The hip throws you see in Krav are pretty much the same as you will see in Judo.
> 
> ...




K-man what I was trying to get at in this video. Is it like this at all schools or only the Commando Krav Maga or Jujutsu Krav Maga schools in the US?






You said Krav Maga have techniques from Boxing, Wrestling, Karate, Muay Thai, Judo, Ju-jutsu and Bjj, plus a few others.

Is it same with all the schools or is it really mixed with the program? Meaning some schools may have lot of throws and take downs like in that video above and other schools hardly any thing remotely like that video above. And hardly any throws and take downs?

How mainstream is that like video above? Most Krav Maga schools have hardly any throws and take downs and only some small elite schools have that?

Or if there was say 80 Krav Maga schools in Florida they would be all different.


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## K-man (Apr 13, 2015)

moonhill99 said:


> K-man what I was trying to get at in this video. Is it like this at all schools or only the Commando Krav Maga or Jujutsu Krav Maga schools in the US?


As I said, I can't speak for other schools but I do have a lot of material from different organisations which would suggest what you see in this video, apart from the spectacular bits, is pretty common. What I teach is similar but I don't teach sacrifice falls and I don't teach spinning or jumping kicks. I do teach those arm bars, locks, holds and takedowns. The grabbing and kneeing is typical of Krav all over as are the weapon disarms. I think what is confusing in the video is the change in clothing but what I think it is trying to show is that the training crosses the boundaries between Krav and Jujutsu.



moonhill99 said:


> You said Krav Maga have techniques from Boxing, Wrestling, Karate, Muay Thai, Judo, Ju-jutsu and Bjj, plus a few others.
> 
> Is it same with all the schools or is it really mixed with the program? Meaning some schools may have lot of throws and take downs like in that video above and other schools hardly any thing remotely like that video above. And hardly any throws and take downs?


If you go back to Europe in the 1930s you had the originator of Krav, Imi Lichtenfeld, teaching his people how to survive on the streets. What they knew in those days was pretty basic. Mainly boxing, wrestling and animal cunning. After the war when he moved to Israel he modified Krav to suit training of the military and seeing that included just about all the Jewish males, it was very widely taught.
Imi Lichtenfeld - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia



moonhill99 said:


> How mainstream is that like video above? Most Krav Maga schools have hardly any throws and take downs and only some small elite schools have that?


As I said, it will depend on the instructors background. Even the guys with IDF credentials are likely to have trained another martial art. You teach what you are comfortable with. My school is heavily influenced by Karate, Aikido and Systema. I wouldn't claim for a minute that it is 'elite', but I would hope people would agree that it is good training.



moonhill99 said:


> Or if there was say 80 Krav Maga schools in Florida they would be all different.


Pretty much. There should be a foundation of good basics but once you get up a bit you will notice the influence of the instructor.


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## moonhill99 (Apr 13, 2015)

K-man said:


> As I said, I can't speak for other schools but I do have a lot of material from different organisations which would suggest what you see in this video, apart from the spectacular bits, is pretty common. What I teach is similar but I don't teach sacrifice falls and I don't teach spinning or jumping kicks. I do teach those arm bars, locks, holds and takedowns. The grabbing and kneeing is typical of Krav all over as are the weapon disarms. I think what is confusing in the video is the change in clothing but what I think it is trying to show is that the training crosses the boundaries between Krav and Jujutsu.
> 
> If you go back to Europe in the 1930s you had the originator of Krav, Imi Lichtenfeld, teaching his people how to survive on the streets. What they knew in those days was pretty basic. Mainly boxing, wrestling and animal cunning. After the war when he moved to Israel he modified Krav to suit training of the military and seeing that included just about all the Jewish males, it was very widely taught.
> Imi Lichtenfeld - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> ...



So how would I find a Krav Maga school in Florida that teaches like the above video? How would I find school? Do the school web site of Krav Maga say what they are teaching and the level of the instructor?

In the above video they where wearing army clothes and gi do some schools wear this? 

How would I find what schools teach what in Florida that alone a Jujutsu Krav Maga school.


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## Blindside (Apr 14, 2015)

moonhill99 said:


> So how would I find a Krav Maga school in Florida that teaches like the above video? How would I find school? Do the school web site of Krav Maga say what they are teaching and the level of the instructor?
> 
> In the above video they where wearing army clothes and gi do some schools wear this?
> 
> How would I find what schools teach what in Florida that alone a Jujutsu Krav Maga school.



The easiest way is to get off of the computer and go visit them in person.


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## K-man (Apr 14, 2015)

As *Blindside* said ... Go and look. Try a few classes. Talk to the senior students. Look at what they can do. Don't stress about the uniform. We don't have 'camo' but that is just our style's policy.


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## moonhill99 (Apr 15, 2015)

K-man said:


> As *Blindside* said ... Go and look. Try a few classes. Talk to the senior students. Look at what they can do. Don't stress about the uniform. We don't have 'camo' but that is just our style's policy.



I don't know may be Krav Maga is different and do not do this but most other martial art schools have web site on the info on the program they teach, instructor background info, pictures and promote videos.

Some schools seem more strict on dress code.


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## BMhadoken (Apr 15, 2015)

moonhill99 said:


> So how would I find a Krav Maga school in Florida that teaches like the above video? How would I find school? Do the school web site of Krav Maga say what they are teaching and the level of the instructor?
> 
> In the above video they where wearing army clothes and gi do some schools wear this?
> 
> How would I find what schools teach what in Florida that alone a Jujutsu Krav Maga school.



I know bupkis about Krav Maga but personally any martial arts/combatives school that wanted me to wear camo clothes in training would be immediately rejected as too tacti-cool to learn anything useful from.


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## Blindside (Apr 15, 2015)

moonhill99 said:


> I don't know may be Krav Maga is different and do not do this but most other martial art schools have web site on the info on the program they teach, instructor background info, pictures and promote videos.
> 
> Some schools seem more strict on dress code.



I have no idea where you are but I'm going to guess that you have less than 5 krav maga schools within an hours drive of you, more likely it will be less than two unless you are in a major city.  This narrows down your choices a lot.  The other thing is that a bad instructor (and Krav Maga is notorious for weekend promotions) can muck up a perfectly good system, and you can't tell a good instructor by his certs, his proof is his students, which you need to see in person.  So leave the computer and go for a visit.

Oh, and you can then ask the instructor about their specific curriculum, in person, and he can like, talk to you back face to face and stuff.


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## MJS (Apr 20, 2015)

moonhill99 said:


> May be that some thing new they are doing? Learning to fight on the ground?
> 
> Or is it only the Commando Krav Maga?



The IKMA group, let by GM Gidon, has ground fighting in it.  The Krav Maga Federation, let by Rhon Mizrachi, also has ground fighting in it.


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## K-man (Apr 20, 2015)

MJS said:


> The IKMA group, let by GM Gidon, has ground fighting in it.  The Krav Maga Federation, let by Rhon Mizrachi, also has ground fighting in it.


All Krav has 'ground fighting' in it. Just that it is tailored to get back up on your feet, not stay fighting on the ground.


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## blindsage (Apr 22, 2015)

Be careful of using these videos as a standard for anything you might actually learn.  The biggest take away from them is that these guys are good at fight choreography.


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## Andrew Green (Apr 22, 2015)

moonhill99 said:


> So how would I find a Krav Maga school in Florida that teaches like the above video? How would I find school? Do the school web site of Krav Maga say what they are teaching and the level of the instructor?
> 
> In the above video they where wearing army clothes and gi do some schools wear this?
> 
> How would I find what schools teach what in Florida that alone a Jujutsu Krav Maga school.




Here's the real secret, Krav Maga is just a name.  The things they do have been done in countless other schools under a huge variety of names for a very long time.  If you want a school that is self-defence orientated there will likely be several to choose from, under several different names.  Right now the name "Krave Maga" is hot, it's basically become a marketing buzzword and there are a huge range of organizations all willing to certify instructors, most of whom started in some other style and already know a good chunk of the techniques, if not the way the curriculum is structured and the way the application is taught. 

Just go find a school that suits you, you're worrying way too much about the things that don't matter, choice of uniform is completely irrelevant to how good the training is.  That first video looked very performance orientated, not really practical with a lot of it.  Flying submissions and Aikido like maneuverers are not really what should make up a self-defence based curriculum.  

And the name is even weird...  "Jujitsu" is Japanese, "Krav Maga" is Israeli.  In reality they cover a lot of the same material, but the name "Jujitsu Krav Maga" is just odd.  Both are already eclectic in nature, why someone would put two words that largely have the same meaning but from different parts of the world together is a question to be asking.  To me it's like someone telling me they invented a new game called Soccer-Football, that is a combination of North American Soccer and European Football...  just doesn't really make sense.

Anyways, I guess the point is find a school that teaches what you want to learn, don't get to caught up in making sure it matches the name and uniforms used by guys doing demo videos you found on youtube.


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## donald1 (Apr 22, 2015)

K-man said:


> As *Blindside* said ... Go and look. Try a few classes. Talk to the senior students. Look at what they can do. Don't stress about the uniform. We don't have 'camo' but that is just our style's policy.



If im reading this correctly it sounds like your saying the uniform is camo colored? (Reason why asked, mostly because never seen one before) if so what kind of uniform would come in camo?


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## K-man (Apr 23, 2015)

donald1 said:


> If im reading this correctly it sounds like your saying the uniform is camo colored? (Reason why asked, mostly because never seen one before) if so what kind of uniform would come in camo?


Hmm! Think you might have misread my post.



K-man said:


> Don't stress about the uniform. *We don't have 'camo' *but that is just our style's policy.


We don't have Camo because it can give the wrong impression to the general public. In Australia there is a group of people, anti-violence, who never miss an opportunity to have a go at MAs like Krav because they are seen as 'para-military'. We don't want to feed that sentiment by running around in army style clothing.

This is the type of press we could do without ...
Krav maga Israeli self-defence system gaining popularity amid focus on alcohol-fuelled violence - ABC News Australian Broadcasting Corporation


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