# Question for you Martial Art Masters.



## stungunsusa (Sep 15, 2016)

I'll be honest, aside from taking Judo when I was a kid, I'm probably a pushover nerd when it comes to fighting lol!  I recently have been given the opportunity to sell a product known as a "Kubotan" 

My concern is that most people  wouldn't know what to do with the thing, I sure as hell wouldn't. My question is simply this, is this an item that someone with little to no experience use effectively to fend off an attacker, and if so what crucial tutorial videos or blogs should I include to ensure it is utilized properly. Way to many floating around afraid of misinformation :/



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## Tony Dismukes (Sep 15, 2016)

Honestly, a Kubotan is no more useful for self-defense than a heavy duty pen would be. Someone who knows how to fight can use a Kubotan to get a little extra oomph in certain strikes, pressure point attacks, and joint locks. Someone who doesn't already know how to fight won't get any more benefit from it than they would from picking up whatever hard object is close at hand for hitting an attacker with.

A tutorial video or blog is not going to be of any use to someone who isn't actually training on a consistent basis. Even if the techniques shown are solid, they won't be of any use to someone who isn't training regularly to develop the necessary instinctive skillset.


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## Tez3 (Sep 15, 2016)

You also need to know if it's legal to sell and use where you intend to sell them, for most it's actually a novelty item however police officers may have a different idea if they see someone with one. Legality can depend on what type it is too.


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## oftheherd1 (Sep 15, 2016)

I once showed one to my GM.  He wasn't impressed, and only opined it might be of use to strike inside an elbow pressure point as a block to a punch.  Other than that, the only practical use he thought was as a key chain, but a little awkward.  

But they can have their uses if you train to use them.  Usually I would expect to strike a pressure point or for pain compliance.  But you would need some practical uses, and practice them a lot.  And you could probably do just as well without it.


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## Danny T (Sep 15, 2016)

First off I'm a master of nothing but my own mistakes.

Have trained with objects like the above... kubotan, pasak, tactical pen, flashlight...etc.
Takes training, it is not an intuitive action. Like Tony stated if one doesn't know how to fight it is likely to be of little use.
As Tez advises kubotans are illegal in many places and in some states in the US so be aware of the legalities.


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## Dirty Dog (Sep 15, 2016)

Why would anyone pay money for a stick? I can pick up sticks off the ground for free...
Hell, every time we have a storm, my wife insists I go pick up sticks for free from around our trees...

The use of any weapon carries with it legal ramifications. Doesn't matter what the weapon is. And any weapon requires training to use most effectively. Doesn't matter what the weapon is.
Using a weapon of any kind against an unarmed opponent is always a legal can of worms. 
And here, at any rate, if you use a weapon of any kind, you've just pretty much justified my use of lethal force. 
If I am going to carry a weapon (and I do, daily), it's going to be something a lot more lethal than a little stick.


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## stungunsusa (Sep 15, 2016)

Tony, Danny, I very much agree with what your saying. So I suppose the only logical conclusion for me is to learn how to effectively use them myself, which would take time out of my day being a nerd... Better yet, find me an expert martial arts specialist who wants 1000s of referrals from me


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## Tez3 (Sep 15, 2016)

I noticed the ad for your 'store' that you have on your posts, can I ask if you cleared that with the site and they are okay with you advertising, perhaps you paid to have it there? Not being funny it's just that ads are usually paid for.


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## Juany118 (Sep 15, 2016)

Dirty Dog said:


> Why would anyone pay money for a stick? I can pick up sticks off the ground for free...
> Hell, every time we have a storm, my wife insists I go pick up sticks for free from around our trees...
> 
> The use of any weapon carries with it legal ramifications. Doesn't matter what the weapon is. And any weapon requires training to use most effectively. Doesn't matter what the weapon is.
> ...



This however is why I like the, small tactical flashlights and "indestructible" pens.  They are actually small enough that a Jury, even a Judge won't see it as justifying lethal force because they are small everyday objects with a primary purpose not related to being a weapon.  These also, vs the kubaton, don't run into legal issues.  However, if you know how to use them they can be dang effective.


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## Buka (Sep 16, 2016)

stungunsusa said:


> I'll be honest,



Do tell. From your site, looks like you've been selling them already. What up with dat?


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## drop bear (Sep 16, 2016)

I have seen basic martial arts novices use kubotan like objects effectively.  

Hold it and hammer fist dudes.


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## stungunsusa (Sep 16, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> I noticed the ad for your 'store' that you have on your posts, can I ask if you cleared that with the site and they are okay with you advertising, perhaps you paid to have it there? Not being funny it's just that ads are usually paid for.



lol! My friend, I must admit, that selling things is of much importance to me in many ways as a web developer, chasing a dream in the ecommmerce world for sure! But irregardless of what sales experience you have, I would hope you would know that a man with a sales pitch selling a defensive product to people who actually are masters of it's utilization, and informing them of my lack of fighting experience would have to be one of the worst sales pitches in the world!

I very much admit that my intent with any knowledge I acquire at this gem find message board might be used for selling, but logically I would think it obvious this place would be off limits. So long as you don't subscribe to a mailing list on my site, you needn't worry about tom spammery from me good sir!


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## Dirty Dog (Sep 16, 2016)

Using silly words like "irregardless" should be off limits too.


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## Tez3 (Sep 16, 2016)

stungunsusa said:


> lol! My friend, I must admit, that selling things is of much importance in one way or another in the ecommmerce world im sure. But irregardless of what sales experience you have, I would hope you would know that a man with a sales pitch selling a defensive product to people who actually are masters of it's utilization, and informing them of my lack of fighting experience would have to be one of the worst sales pitches in the world!
> 
> I very much admit that my intent with any knowledge I acquire at this gem find message board might be used for selling, but logically I would think it obvious this place would be off limits



Er what? Do you speak English as a second language? Not your sale pitch whatever that is but your advertisement you have as your signature. Did you contact the site to pay for the advertising


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## stungunsusa (Sep 16, 2016)

I don't know Tez, did the presence of my website put any temptation upon you to click the link and visit it. I have absolutely no qualms whatsoever about telling you precisely why I have my website in my signature. It's my work, with several hours of suffering I made it, im proud of it. I put a lot of work into it, so therefore it very much belongs in my signature just as you masters of martial arts breaking bricks into dust do as a portrait. You are proud of it and rightfully so!

Secondly, we no longer live in a world where it's whoever has the lowest prices, and the smoothest silver tongue that makes his milk money. A complex systematic devised by the new superpower of the world, aka google, essentially wants people and their websites to be within relation to whatever they are selling, discussing, doing at all period! So by taking this verbal assault, and attempting to acquire knowledge, I might get my black belt in SEO someday 

So i'll either be banned, or blessed with you gentlemen's wealth of knowledge which I would greatly appreciate.


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## Tez3 (Sep 16, 2016)

stungunsusa said:


> you gentlemen's



Excuse me?



stungunsusa said:


> I don't know Tez, did the presence of my website put any temptation upon you to click the link and visit it. I have absolutely no qualms whatsoever about telling you precisely why I have my website in my signature. It's my work, with several hours of suffering I made it, im proud of it. I put a lot of work into it, so therefore it very much belongs in my signature just as you masters of martial arts breaking bricks into dust do as a portrait. You are proud of it and rightfully so



My days, I've haven't heard such a load of waffle for a long time. The site has a policy about advertising, why should they carry your ad for free? Whether you are proud of it or not is no import, the designers and owners of MT are equally proud of it, why would you want to do them out of the small amount of revenue you ad would bring in when they do this for free? I don't, never have nor ever would break bricks so no I'm not 'proud' of such things, nor do I appreciate brown nosing.


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## Gerry Seymour (Sep 16, 2016)

stungunsusa said:


> I don't know Tez, did the presence of my website put any temptation upon you to click the link and visit it. I have absolutely no qualms whatsoever about telling you precisely why I have my website in my signature. It's my work, with several hours of suffering I made it, im proud of it. I put a lot of work into it, so therefore it very much belongs in my signature just as you masters of martial arts breaking bricks into dust do as a portrait. You are proud of it and rightfully so!
> 
> Secondly, we no longer live in a world where it's whoever has the lowest prices, and the smoothest silver tongue that makes his milk money. A complex systematic devised by the new superpower of the world, aka google, essentially wants people and their websites to be within relation to whatever they are selling, discussing, doing at all period! So by taking this verbal assault, and attempting to acquire knowledge, I might get my black belt in SEO someday
> 
> So i'll either be banned, or blessed with you gentlemen's wealth of knowledge which I would greatly appreciate.


It's in the Terms of Service you agreed to when you registered. For obvious reasons, the site owners placed limits on advertising. As you have your business, they have theirs.


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## Dirty Dog (Sep 16, 2016)

Folks... let the moderation team worry about what's allowed under the TOS, ok? If you have an issue, hit the report button. If you go after someone in the forums, you're as likely to end up getting reported yourself.
The TOS are available to everybody. See that link down in the bottom right hand corner of every single page?



> *2.4 Signatures:*
> 
> Each MartialTalk membership comes with the ability to display a signature. This signature can be used to promote your site, business, or other ventures. Your Signature must follow these guidelines:
> 
> ...


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## Tez3 (Sep 16, 2016)

Dirty Dog said:


> Folks... let the moderation team worry about what's allowed under the TOS, ok? If you have an issue, hit the report button. If you go after someone in the forums, you're as likely to end up getting reported yourself.
> The TOS are available to everybody. See that link down in the bottom right hand corner of every single page?


Okay but when a poster is using this place *only* to advertise and not post about martial arts etc and to manage to write nonsense too it's everyone's concern, well,if we care about this place it should be. Reporting is official, mentioning it in a post is friendly.


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## Gerry Seymour (Sep 16, 2016)

Dirty Dog said:


> Folks... let the moderation team worry about what's allowed under the TOS, ok? If you have an issue, hit the report button. If you go after someone in the forums, you're as likely to end up getting reported yourself.
> The TOS are available to everybody. See that link down in the bottom right hand corner of every single page?


I only mentioned it to him to make sure he was aware of it. Sometimes folks think others are being anti-business when they note that someone has an ad, and most of us didn't read the full TOS on the way in. Just trying to keep folks from getting a ban (not even sure if that would happen) without being aware they were in voilation.


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## stungunsusa (Sep 16, 2016)

From what I did get out of my initial question, I greatly appreciate guys. It most certainly confirms in fact that when it comes to self defense, there isn't an easy button. and any form of weapon, although an advantage, you must train in using it.

I guess I just want to provide people with accurate information.  I have absolutely no expectation that anyone is going to buy the kubotan that I posted a picture for. The purpose of posting it was if something about that peticular style had something bad about it, like say for example there are ones available put up like say the ones that resemble a dull pencil, had anyone informed me that those in particular were horrible, I obviously have respect and value top level expert knowledge when it is provided, because I definetely am no expert in the field of fighting.

As to your initial advice Tez on the shipping and legalities, It was most certainly grueling! Basically to setup shipping generally you just pick the countries and your good. Of coarse as you stated, my distributor has all the legalities of each, state, and in some cases, specific zip codes! So rather than my usual 5 minutes setup time, it was more like 3 hours


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## Tony Dismukes (Sep 16, 2016)

stungunsusa said:


> So I suppose the only logical conclusion for me is to learn how to effectively use them myself, which would take time out of my day being a nerd...


Training martial arts has done absolutely nothing to take me away from being a nerd.


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## stungunsusa (Sep 16, 2016)

"Training martial arts has done absolutely nothing to take me away from being a nerd."

Lol! under normal circumstances Tony I very much agree. pretty soon I will have some free time to take on a few extra hobbies outside of working 15 hours a day trolling and hitting freecodecamp finishing up my java cert. I honestly would like to take some form of martial arts, of coarse all my friends say "Brazilian jiu jitsu"

However, being that they have never taken any form of martial arts, how they conclude that must be watching the UFC. I'm sure several factors change when you go from a controlled environment of professional fighters, to everyday life. 
As to which is a good beginning martial art, whatever you guys say definitely would be the one i'd consider for sure over anything my poker buddies drop on me based on their favorite fighter lol! All I know is Judo didn't really do to much for me when I was younger, but I don't think I put in enough to have an opinion.


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## Gerry Seymour (Sep 16, 2016)

stungunsusa said:


> "Training martial arts has done absolutely nothing to take me away from being a nerd."
> 
> Lol! under normal circumstances Tony I very much agree. pretty soon I will have some free time to take on a few extra hobbies outside of working 15 hours a day trolling and hitting freecodecamp finishing up my java cert. I honestly would like to take some form of martial arts, of coarse all my friends say "Brazilian jiu jitsu"
> 
> ...


The right fit isn't something we can tell you. The best advice is to go visit schools in your area. Watch classes and talk to instructors (and students if you get a chance). When you find one where you see something that looks interesting and meet people who seem interesting, sign up. That's probably the one for you.


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## Touch Of Death (Sep 16, 2016)

Tony Dismukes said:


> Training martial arts has done absolutely nothing to take me away from being a nerd.


You become, like, a magical nerd, and magicians are weird people.


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## Buka (Sep 16, 2016)

Tony Dismukes said:


> Training martial arts has done absolutely nothing to take me away from being a nerd.



That's just so cool.

Wish I was intelligent enough to be considered a nerd. Ah, well, good looks will have to do.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Sep 16, 2016)

stungunsusa said:


> As to which is a good beginning martial art, whatever you guys say definitely would be the one i'd consider for sure over anything my poker buddies drop on me based on their favorite fighter lol! All I know is Judo didn't really do to much for me when I was younger, but I don't think I put in enough to have an opinion.



Like gpseymour said, the best option is to just go around and find what you enjoy the most. If you know some websites of nearby ones, or the names of the instructor, we can certainly give you some advice based on that, but ultimately it should still be where you find the most enjoyment.


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## Steve (Sep 16, 2016)

Buka said:


> That's just so cool.
> 
> Wish I was intelligent enough to be considered a nerd. Ah, well, good looks will have to do.


I hate to be the bearer of bad news, Buka, but I wouldn't count on your looks, either.  Let's just say, I hear you have a "great personality."


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## Tony Dismukes (Sep 16, 2016)

Steve said:


> I hate to be the bearer of bad news, Buka, but I wouldn't count on your looks, either.  Let's just say, I hear you have a "great personality."


Well, I don't know if he's exactly _handsome_, but I've heard that he's quite ... striking.


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## Steve (Sep 16, 2016)

Tony Dismukes said:


> Well, I don't know if he's exactly _handsome_, but I've heard that he's quite ... striking.


Oh, that pun actually hurt.


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## wingchun100 (Nov 18, 2016)

So how are the sales going?


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## stungunsusa (Nov 18, 2016)

wingchun100 said:


> So how are the sales going?



Quite horribly! It wasn't doing to bad for awhile and then all of a sudden stripe shut off my payment gateway.Apparently banks don't like tobacco, weapons, or gambling. Well, they do but they want to charge you monthly for the gateway and hard hit your credit score b4 they will heh.

Luckily I had some guy pay me to make a website for his aquarium store and register him in google maps, or i'd be broke. Stripper stores doing lovely though!




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## drop bear (Nov 18, 2016)

stungunsusa said:


> Quite horribly! It wasn't doing to bad for awhile and then all of a sudden stripe shut off my payment gateway.Apparently banks don't like tobacco, weapons, or gambling. Well, they do but they want to charge you monthly for the gateway and hard hit your credit score b4 they will heh.
> 
> Luckily I had some guy pay me to make a website for his aquarium store and register him in google maps, or i'd be broke. Stripper stores doing lovely though!
> 
> ...



Pole dancing is an international sport these days. All sorts of legitimate.

World Pole Sports Championship Event Times


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## Psilent Knight (Jun 2, 2017)

Dirty Dog said:


> Why would anyone pay money for a stick? I can pick up sticks off the ground for free...
> Hell, every time we have a storm, my wife insists I go pick up sticks for free from around our trees...



LOL. This is true. A couple of days ago I made a DIY Pocket Stick/Palm Stick from the wooden handle of a plunger. It was a spare plunger, brand spanking new and never used. I simply hack sawed 6 inches off and rounded off the edge and end of it with my folding knife and some sand paper. Took me only 20 minutes and _VOILA_! My own DIY Yawara/Pocket Stick.


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