# Martial Arts and Religeon



## Master of Blades (Apr 23, 2003)

How many people here treat Martial Arts as part of a religeon, and just out of interest are there any religeous people here who had to pick their MA around their Religeon? And just another one.....Do ya reckon Religeon has a place in the Martial Arts? 


Just thought I would get this place bubbling with ground breaking questions  :asian:


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## Jester (Apr 23, 2003)

Hmmm interesting one.

If we define religon as a set of beliefs and rules set in accordance to the worship of a higher power.

Although martial arts can obviously have a strong spiritual side which can perhaps seem like a religon, I don't think I've ever heard of it being focused towards a higher power of any kind except realising and realeasing the 'higher power' of the human spirit and mind.

I think religons can utilise the martial arts as a teaching tool but I think that's as far as it should go.


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## Master of Blades (Apr 23, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Jester _
> *
> 
> I don't think I've ever heard of it being focused towards a higher power of any kind except realising and realeasing the 'higher power' of the human spirit and mind.
> ...




You've obviously never trained under Aishida Kim!  

:rofl:


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## Bob Hubbard (Apr 23, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Master of Blades _
> *You've obviously never trained under Aishida Kim!
> 
> :rofl: *



Shh...he might be here. 

seriously...
I think its a personal thing....
For me, I find it helps me focus better at times.  My 'religious/philisopical' leanings are Taoist/Egyptian pagan in nature.  I've briefly studied TaiChi and find alot of  'makes sence to me' stuff in it and CM.

So...to answer your questions:


> How many people here treat Martial Arts as part of a religeon,



Not part of per say, but they do compliment each other.



> and just out of interest are there any religeous people here who had to pick their MA around their Religeon?



Yes, but not me.



> And just another one.....Do ya reckon Religeon has a place in the Martial Arts?



Yes.

:asian:


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## Gin-Gin (Apr 23, 2003)

My opinion (which you can take with a grain of salt): 

I've only been studying the martial arts for 5 years, but from what I've seen, one CAN study the Art without being religious (unless you're going to become a monk or a nun).  I know martial artists who are Christians and who do not seem to have any conflicts/problems with it, and I know martial artists (like myself) who are not very religious but who do have a set of values and have the Art as a guide to help me.

What do y'all think?

Respectfully,
Neko :asian:


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## cdhall (Apr 23, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Master of Blades _
> *Just thought I would get this place bubbling with ground breaking questions  :asian: *



You are a bit late for Groundbreaking, but that is OK.

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=4095&referrerid=391

I had my Thesis approved last week.  My topic for both my Black Belt Thesis and the accompanying form will be "Christianity and Kenpo."
 

I won't divulge any of the other details here. Yet.  I had a post written for the thread linked above but I decided not to post it after all.  Maybe I will do more later. 
:asian:


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## chufeng (Apr 23, 2003)

If one chooses the martial arts as a Way of life...then the martial art is so part of who you are that it will naturally influence everything you do, to include religion...

For anyone who really looks deeply into his/her art, there is a spiritual aspect to it...

However, no martial art should impose a religion on a student...
No martial art should discriminate based on religion...
The sensei/sifu should be open to talking about such things, if a student asks, but probably should refrain from initiating those discussions (beyond looking at historical information) because of the influence he/she has over the student.

Religion, spirituality, and martial arts are not mutually exclusive; neither are they mutually inclusive...each individual will walk his path in his own way.

:asian:
chufeng


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## MartialArtist (Apr 23, 2003)

To me, martial arts is NOT a religion.  Many martial arts are philosophical, but that's fine.  A lot of the arts use philosophy to teach martial principles, especially in the internal arts.


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## moromoro (Apr 24, 2003)

well catholisims is very influencial in the FMA,


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## moromoro (Apr 24, 2003)

in some styles with the (oracion) prayers and spiritual healing and such


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## Yari (Apr 24, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Master of Blades _
> How many people here treat Martial Arts as part of a religeon,



It really depneds on what is meant with religion. For me religion is philosofy were some predefine rules are set, which typically pint to a "person" or being that has all the answers but we cant understand. In that sense MA could be a religion, since were looking for answers that should be in the art. But on hte other hand it's not a "person" or being.....



> and just out of interest are there any religeous people here who had to pick their MA around their Religeon?



Not me, but I'm not that great a beleiver.



> Do ya reckon Religeon has a place in the Martial Arts?



That was difficult, because I would say it doesn't matter. But it's easy for me to say when I dont beleive in a God. But i liked what somebody else said that MA hightens your perception of reality. In that sense MA could fit to anything.




> Just thought I would get this place bubbling with ground breaking questions  :asian:



Keep on thinking and writing.... Whats your own meaning of this?

/Yari


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## moromoro (Apr 24, 2003)

what about hinduism


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## Master of Blades (Apr 24, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Yari _
> *
> 
> 
> ...



I dont know enough about Religeon or Martial Arts to answer most of my own questions, all I was looking for was answers :asian: 

I dont like chatting crap you see


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## moromoro (Apr 24, 2003)

hahaha

what do you think of Ascetics


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## Humble artist (Apr 24, 2003)

Religious philosophies have influenced martial arts to a considerable degree but never have I heard of a martial art that pushes a religion since all of the basical martial philosophy is applicable to any morally educated person regardless of religion or lack of it
Buddhism,taoism and confucianism as major examples have been important for Asian arts.
Certain christians seem to have issues with eastern arts being afraid that they may violate their faith but I believe this fear to be unnecessary.


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## pesilat (Apr 24, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Master of Blades _
> *How many people here treat Martial Arts as part of a religeon, and just out of interest are there any religeous people here who had to pick their MA around their Religeon? And just another one.....Do ya reckon Religeon has a place in the Martial Arts?
> 
> 
> Just thought I would get this place bubbling with ground breaking questions  :asian: *



Personally, MA is about the closest thing I have to "religion." I'm not a part of any organizes religion. To me, the Golden Rule sums up everything (morally speaking) that I need to know. And, to me, the MA is kind of an embodiment of the Golden Rule.

I personally don't feel that religion has any place in martial arts. Religion is (my personal definition) the expression of spirituality according to a specific group. Spirituality (my def.) is a person's personal connection to whatever higher being they perceive (or don't ... in which case it's their personal connection to themselves, I guess).

So, IMO, spirituality is too personal to bring into the martial arts (except in ones own personal training) and religion (the expression of spirituality according to a specific group) has no place outside of that specific group.

Personally, I think if people bring religion into the MA, they (often) lose sight of either their religion or their MA.

I do think it's good (though not necessary) to learn about the culture a MA comes from. In some cases, the religion and culture are so closely integrated that it's impossible to separate them. In this case, I see no problem with _learning about_ the religion/culture. But that's a different critter than "involving the religion in the MA."

But this can be a very tricky situation because some arts are so tied to their culture and their culture is so interrelated to their religion that it's very difficult to separate the MA.

What it boils down to, though, is that each person must make his or her own decision as to how he/she will apportion religion and MA within his/her own life. I don't think there's an across-the-board answer.

Mike


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## moromoro (Apr 24, 2003)

> Personally, MA is about the closest thing I have to "religion."



hahahaha

true for many i believe


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## lost_tortoise (Apr 25, 2003)

I don't generally mix my spirituality with my martial arts training.  I think that, at the higher levels, an art can be spiritual as in altered states of consciousness or a feeling of well-being; or even a heightened awareness.  About the time taoism started morphing into something spiritual for me, as opposed to exclusively philosophical doctrine, I sought Tai Chi as a physical manifestation of that spirituality.  So I guess when I was studying Tai Chi the two were intertwined.  Perhaps the internal arts lend themselves to such synthesis.....


~geoffrey~


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## arnisador (Apr 25, 2003)

The martial arts have been the largest single influence on my personal philosophy.


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## moromoro (Apr 25, 2003)

> The martial arts have been the largest single influence on my personal philosophy.



what MA do you study and your rank?


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## arnisador (Apr 26, 2003)

> _Originally posted by moromoro _
> *what MA do you study and your rank? *



Why do you keep asking people that?


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## moromoro (Apr 26, 2003)

i think part of the reason of this forum is to know who it is you are talking to and also there skill levels

i.e

are they masters of the art they practice or are they just beginner students who train with their instructors and not their GM's

now this forum is large and has both..........



> The martial arts have been the largest single influence on my personal philosophy.



since you said this i thought you may really know the FMA............

:rofl:


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## Wmarden (Apr 26, 2003)

For me it is a personal matter, but an important one.  Martial arts are not inherently religious, neither are other forms of physical activity.  It is the purpose and person behind the art(IE YOU).  

Each person has different things that work for them. I know I always feel closest to God when I am training (weights, martial arts, etc).  And surely you have heard of fishermen who say the lake/ocean/river is their church. Each person is reached or touched spiritually in different ways.  

I am a poor Christian, but I do try to serve my God as best I can.  Martial arts is one vehicle to perfect myself so as to be a better servant.  It is one way to pursue excellence.  And I believe God wants us to live up to our potential or he would not have given us our various gifts.  That is my personal belief anyway.  

Religion or philosophy is just so many words if you do not live up to your code(religious, philosophical, personal, etc).  Or at least strive to live up to it anyway, Lord knows I stumble.  

As far as being an active part of a religion, I do not think martial arts are meant to be that way for everybody.  However if a person is living up to their personal code it will seep out into everything they do.  Not so much as proselytizing as being a good example.  If you are that example you will not need to speak for people to know where you stand.  This applies to all different beliefs, be it Christianity, Taoism, Judaism(the worship of Judy Tenuda) or whatever.


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## moromoro (Apr 26, 2003)

does any one actually go the next level and become a devoted buddhist will also practicing martialarts...

i mean has anybody found a religion from beginning the martial arts......

e.g. steven seagal found buddhism after practising aikido


thanks


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## Master of Blades (Apr 26, 2003)

> _Originally posted by moromoro _
> *i think part of the reason of this forum is to know who it is you are talking to and also there skill levels
> 
> i.e
> ...



Moromoro,
                  If your interested in Rank etc then click on their profiles and find out for yourself :asian: But dont just pay attention to their rank, EVERYBODY on this site that I have seen posting has got something good to say :asian:


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## moromoro (Apr 26, 2003)

WELL SAID KIDDO


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## arnisador (Apr 26, 2003)

> _Originally posted by moromoro _
> *since you said this i thought you may really know the FMA............*



Actually, the philosophy of the Karate I studied while in high school is what really affected my thinking--then I've picked up things here and there from a kung fu instructor, from the Professor, and from others.


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## Ma_Kuiwu (Jul 1, 2003)

There is no religion.


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