# Off duty police officer



## Ceicei (Mar 10, 2008)

This is an article of a very observant off duty police officer working as a part time security guard who was able to help a teenage girl.

She was apparently walking (didn't say what time) when she was abducted and in the wee hours (4:30 am) he found two men trying to sexually assault her.  He arrested both men.  Kudos to him--he deserves commendation!

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,695260507,00.html

It seemed like almost every police officer I've met also moonlight as a security guard or a bouncer elsewhere.  If they aren't doing security or bouncing, they are often involved with a defense type situation (as a firearms instructor, martial arts instructor, or similar).  I also know of a few who are in the National Guard.  

This brings up the question:  Is the off-duty choice of activities an extension of the primary occupation and never being able to let go of this mindset due to training, or is it more of a certain personality profile of gravitating to these types of activities?

- Ceicei


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## kailat (Mar 10, 2008)

It's an obligation as part of being a sworn officer to protect and serve your community and wherever you are no matter what time it is, or what your doing.  Whether or not the officer wants to act on a crime or at least we are obligated to call dispatch if we see a crime in progress.  ALot of time if were w/ our families etc... we may not act on a potentially dangerous situation.  But then again some may.  It is our obligation.

 Florida is passing or wanting to pass a law that 'ALL' retired officers carry firearms. 

 Alot of times offeses occur because a uniformed officer is not present but an off duty or undercover officer is less conspicuous... if i see a misdemeanor or felony in progress it is my duty as a police officer and yet as a member of society to act upon either restraining, arresting the offender if anything else calling dispatch and keeping survelience until a uniformed unit arrives.


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## Drac (Mar 10, 2008)

Ceicei said:


> It seemed like almost every police officer I've met also moonlight as a security guard or a bouncer elsewhere. If they aren't doing security or bouncing, they are often involved with a defense type situation (as a firearms instructor, martial arts instructor, or similar). I also know of a few who are in the National Guard.
> 
> This brings up the question: Is the off-duty choice of activities an extension of the primary occupation and never being able to let go of this mindset due to training, or is it more of a certain personality profile of gravitating to these types of activities?- Ceicei


 
To me its a choice..My department doesn't allow officers to work as bouncers or bartenders..So the choice is security, and you have to be real carefull there..Some agencies up here have the WORST reputations imaginable, that's because their owners have NEVER been LEO's and but think that a BS degree make them our betters...

I am lucky that I found a part time job that dictates only off duty or retired cops are allowed to work as security...


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## Brad Dunne (Mar 10, 2008)

This brings up the question: Is the off-duty choice of activities an extension of the primary occupation and never being able to let go of this mindset due to training, or is it more of a certain personality profile of gravitating to these types of activities?...................

It depends on what a particular departments policies are, with regards to off duty employment (ie: moonlighting). NYPD years ago, frowned upon any form of moonlighting. The only thing we were allowed to do was drive a cab and that was only because at the time, there were a lot of cabs being held up. Almost every officer I see today, works off duty in some form of security. The reason is that it pays good and no additional qualifications are needed.


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## Drac (Mar 10, 2008)

Brad Dunne said:


> Almost every officer I see today, works off duty in some form of security. The reason is that it pays good and no additional qualifications are needed.


 
They don't pay all that well Brad..During the holiday season its a different story, off duty cop can command a lot more..But even with 21 years of experience I'm lucky if I can get a dollar an hour more above minimum wage if working for a private security company...


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## MA-Caver (Mar 10, 2008)

With my friends (off line, and a :asian: to those here) who are LEO's I've heard them say "Once a cop, always a cop." Dunno if that's always true, I've heard of LEO's gone bad after leaving the force but I think those are very few and far between. 
But observing the ones who were still working even off duty they are in a mind-set it seems, of being vigilant, and calling dispatch when they see a traffic violation (most commonly DUI's) and so forth. 
And yes, they've told me that they feel a sense of civil obligation (as mentioned here) to be "On Duty even if they're off the clock." It's good to know that at times. 
Had an occasion to be in a bad part of town (Washington D.C.) one evening. This one gentleman came up to me and asked me if I was headed to a particular destination (a university I briefly attended), he "escorted" me to the entrance gates and to the officer/security kiosk and waved me and the officer on duty, goodnight and went on his way. 
Turned out to be a cop obeying the first rule of law enforcement... going home alive. Seeing me in a potentially bad situation just did his duty of protect/serve.


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## jks9199 (Mar 10, 2008)

It takes a special mindset to be a cop.  That mindset doesn't turn off when you put the uniform up at the end of the day.  And the culture of law enforcement in the USA is that we don't stop being cops when we go home.  As Dave Grossman puts it -- we're sheepdogs.  We're not going to stop being sheepdogs just because the day is done.  We may be more selective about what we bother with -- but we don't sit idly by.

As to off-duty activities -- I was training in martial arts long before I became a cop.  But there is a definite influence of my profession on my training.  Off duty employment at my agency has to be approved by the chief; we don't have a lot of details or other off-duty/special duty gigs.  But we're paid pretty well, all things considered, so we don't have a lot of guys needing to work off duty.


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## LawDog (Mar 17, 2008)

Most LEO's have been prepairing for a career in law enforcement since their school and college days. Because of this they are usually not trained in any other profession. So if they looking for extra work to help with their personal income they will usually pick a job that they know something about.
:supcool:


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## redfang (Mar 17, 2008)

My department has an off-duty coordinator. Off-duty work goes through the city, jobs are all law enforcement in nature. The employer pays the city, the city pays the cop, because the work is through the city, we arre covered by insurance and protected from liability the same as if working a regular shift. Outside employment that does not go through the city must be approved. Some officers do landscaping or automotive work etc.


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## Drac (Mar 17, 2008)

redfang said:


> My department has an off-duty coordinator. Off-duty work goes through the city, jobs are all law enforcement in nature. The employer pays the city, the city pays the cop, because the work is through the city, we arre covered by insurance and protected from liability the same as if working a regular shift.


 
An off-duty coordinator?? Must be nice..We have no such luxury, we get what we can find...And because my full time depatments terrible reputation we don't get many offers..I lucked out because I knew a few from training classes and they spoke up for me...


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## jks9199 (Mar 17, 2008)

LawDog said:


> Most LEO's have been prepairing for a career in law enforcement since their school and college days. Because of this they are usually not trained in any other profession. So if they looking for extra work to help with their personal income they will usually pick a job that they know something about.
> :supcool:


Actually, in my experience, you'll find that lots of cops have lots of different skills.  For example, in my department, we've got licensed electricians, a carpenter, several skilled mechanics,a licensed or certificated (or whatever they do) veterinary technician, and lots more.  If I go out of my own small department, I know guys who are welders, even more in various construction trades, cabinet makers...    For a while, one of our department's most common side job was working at a local mortuary...

The thing about police work, especially, is that any and all of those skills can come into play.  You never know what the next call will entail -- and being able to locate a gas shutoff or the power mains and knowing how to shut 'em down can be vital.  Or being able to bond with a victim or suspect over jobs or hobbies can make a big difference in the success of an interview.  In fact -- in terms of college, I generally discourage someone from getting a degree in administration of justice/police science solely to get a job!  The academy and on-the-job training teaches all of the LE stuff you need; having a degree in accounting or computer science or whatever may make the difference in getting a specialty assignment or doing an investigation.


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## punisher73 (Mar 17, 2008)

Our dept. is very conservative on the type of off-duty work you can get.  ANY outside job has to be approved ahead of time by the Sheriff.  Most people are able to get enough OT with the dept. so not too many people do outside work.

The city PD tried to do the moonlighting thing as security for some local businesses, and there was an incident and a big deal about liability and I think they put a stop to it.


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## Adept (Jun 1, 2008)

Unfortunately my departement expressly forbids it's officers to work in the security industry. Or rather, to work in any capacity which requires them to hold a security licence.


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## Drac (Jun 1, 2008)

jks9199 said:


> Actually, in my experience, you'll find that lots of cops have lots of different skills. For example, in my department, we've got licensed electricians, a carpenter, several skilled mechanics,a licensed or certificated (or whatever they do) veterinary technician, and lots more. If I go out of my own small department, I know guys who are welders, even more in various construction trades, cabinet makers... For a while, one of our department's most common side job was working at a local mortuary...
> 
> The thing about police work, especially, is that any and all of those skills can come into play. You never know what the next call will entail -- and being able to locate a gas shutoff or the power mains and knowing how to shut 'em down can be vital. Or being able to bond with a victim or suspect over jobs or hobbies can make a big difference in the success of an interview. In fact -- in terms of college, I generally discourage someone from getting a degree in administration of justice/police science solely to get a job! The academy and on-the-job training teaches all of the LE stuff you need; having a degree in accounting or computer science or whatever may make the difference in getting a specialty assignment or doing an investigation.


 
Good post...I was a puppeteer, bartender, bouncer and nightclub manager before taking the oath...


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## Drac (Jun 1, 2008)

Adept said:


> Unfortunately my departement expressly forbids it's officers to work in the security industry. Or rather, to work in any capacity which requires them to hold a security licence.


 
There are only a few agencies here that we cannot work for..Most of the others find part time jobs with campus security/police... There are some cities here that have more part time work than they can fill..The Chief will not allow any other departments to work any of these slots, one bad apple ruined it for all...


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## 5-0 Kenpo (Jun 2, 2008)

I agree with most of the posts here, except (in a limited circumstances) this one:



> It's an obligation as part of being a sworn officer to protect and serve your community and wherever you are no matter what time it is, or what your doing.


 
First of all, that "Protect and Serve" stuff is LAPD's motto.  *S*

But, I am not going to get involved in an off-duty incident when I have my wife and child with me.  The only thing I am going to do is get the hell out of there and be a good witness later.  Now, if I am by myself, I *may* get involved.  But not because of the job, but my own moral feelings.  And, I would suffer no repercussions with the job if I didn't.

As a matter of fact, most officers are trained not to get involved in an off-duty incident.  You don't have a radio to call for help, a vest to stop bullets, and often, no extra ammo.  The key is to be a good witness.


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## jks9199 (Jun 2, 2008)

5-0 Kenpo said:


> I agree with most of the posts here, except (in a limited circumstances) this one:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Off duty, the first thing I consider is whether my involvement is going to increase or decrease the risk and general safety.  Lots of the time, my "involvement" off duty is an anonymous (or occasionally not anonymous) call to the local jurisdiction.  In fact, since I'm in a plainclothes assignment, even on-duty, often my first choice is to call in the troops from patrol.  After all, the guys and gals on the clock have all their tools; the most I typically carry is a gun and restraints.  No OC, no impact weapon (other than my hands or improvision), and no body armor.  And - most importantly - no uniform.  No immediate, strong evidence of my authority.  Too many cops have been killed by other cops in the chaos of sorting out what's going on....

If I'm with others, than their safety is also a major part of the assessment of what I can do.  If I'm hanging out with a bunch of my buddies who are all cops... we might jump in.  Especially if it looks like we might "get some..." with a minimum of paperwork.   But if I'm with my wife, or my 3 year old niece... Nope.  I'm not directly intervening unless I reasonably believe I can do so safely for them, AND that if I don't, someone will be killed or seriously injured.  I don't recall all the details off the top of my head, but there was one incident where a cop was in a fast food place, and a guy came in to rob it.  As I recall the story -- the cop did take him out.  Unfortunately, in the firefight, the cop's young daughter caught a stray round, and was killed.  The conclusion is left for the student...


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## arnisador (Jun 3, 2008)

Awareness is still the big thing!


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