# Question



## Xue Sheng (Oct 28, 2006)

Not knowing all that much about Ninjutsu I was wondering if anyone had any information on this school. I am just curious since I did not even know that there was a school anywhere near me and I have been asked on rare occasion by people if there was a Ninjutsu school around and I have always said not as far as I know. Now that I see one is in my area I was wondering what info I could get on it so the next time I am asked I know whether or not to refer them here

Bujinkan Buyu Dojo
http://www.tonypereiraonline.com/mikewoerner.htm

And one more question, what would the curriculum at a typical Ninjutsu be like. 

For example my Yang Tai Chi sifu use to always start with the long form then teach basic push hands then short broadsword form and more advanced push hands, etc.

Thanks :asian:
XS


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## Grey Eyed Bandit (Oct 28, 2006)

Seems fair enough.



Xue Sheng said:


> And one more question, what would the curriculum at a typical Ninjutsu be like.


 
Simple answer - no such thing.


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## Makalakumu (Oct 28, 2006)

Nimravus said:


> Simple answer - no such thing.


 
That's weird.  How does that work?  I was under the impression that there were two man kata lists like many other Japanese arts.


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## Cryozombie (Oct 28, 2006)

Xue Sheng said:


> And one more question, what would the curriculum at a typical Ninjutsu be like.
> XS



It has been my experience from the handfull of schools I have seen, that It depends on the school.  Most dojos teach... for lack of a better term, willy-nilly, Everyone, regardless of rank, is gonna work on technique "blah blah" today, and everyone does that.  Don't take my use of the word willy-nilly as a bad thing mind you... it was just the simplist term I could think of for someone to underastan the lack of "structure d curriculum" in most Buj schools.

SOME, (like the one I am in now) has a curriculum of ideas that each rank works on that build on each other... and techniques that use those ideas.


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## Don Roley (Oct 29, 2006)

Xue Sheng said:


> Not knowing all that much about Ninjutsu I was wondering if anyone had any information on this school. I am just curious since I did not even know that there was a school anywhere near me and I have been asked on rare occasion by people if there was a Ninjutsu school around and I have always said not as far as I know. Now that I see one is in my area I was wondering what info I could get on it so the next time I am asked I know whether or not to refer them here
> 
> Bujinkan Buyu Dojo
> http://www.tonypereiraonline.com/mikewoerner.htm



It looks like a legit dojo. But am I the only one with a problem about the following?



> He is a Shidoshi Instructor, Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu, with Black Belt Shidoshi licenses in the following Japanese Martial Arts:
> 
>  Togakure Ryu Ninpo
> 
> ...



Xue, I know you read the rant thread.   Do you remember how I wondered aloud about how some people can claim to teach an entire school when the process tends to be so hit and miss? Yet the typical person would look at the above and think that he not only knew Gyokushin ryu, but could teach it to you.

I know some Gyokushin ryu, as well as Gikan ryu and Kumogakure ryu. But what I know is very slim indeed. And I know more than most people outside of Japan! Before you train with this guy, ask him straight to his face to show you a formal kata from Gyokushin ryu and see how he responds.


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## Xue Sheng (Oct 29, 2006)

Don Roley said:


> It looks like a legit dojo. But am I the only one with a problem about the following?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Theres a rant thread.. what is this rant you speak of ???  

Not really knowing the Japanese terminology let me see if I understand this by relating it to CMA

For example if someone shows up claiming they know all, every last aspect, of Ip Man's Wing Chun. When he taught only the parts he thought were applicable to you, those things that can best be used by you, based on personality, stature and physical ability.  

This does not mean you do not know Wing Chun and it does not mean you are not good at it. It only means you do not know every aspect that Ip Man knew.

Am I close to what you are talking about here?

Thanks Don
XS


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## Grey Eyed Bandit (Oct 29, 2006)

upnorthkyosa said:


> That's weird. How does that work?


 
It doesn't, all the time.:uhyeah:  



upnorthkyosa said:


> I was under the impression that there were two man kata lists like many other Japanese arts.


 
Put two good Bujinkan shidoshis in a room and you'll have three different methods of teaching in there. At least.


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## stephen (Oct 29, 2006)

He just copied it from his teacher's website:

http://www.livingvalues.com/bio.htm

While I don't have any experience with his students, I'd imagine they'd be good - as I only have the highest respect for Jack Hoban.


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## Fu_Bag (Oct 29, 2006)

Nimravus said:


> Put two good Bujinkan shidoshis in a room and you'll have three different methods of teaching in there. At least.


 
LOL!!! Uhhhh....no comment.................................


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## Kreth (Oct 29, 2006)

He does look to be legit, although as others have said, the issue of claiming licensing in the individual schools of the Bujinkan is a little misleading.
Xue, I didn't realize you're in Albany. You're only about an hour from me.


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## Cryozombie (Oct 29, 2006)

stephen said:


> While I don't have any experience with his students, I'd imagine they'd be good - as I only have the highest respect for Jack Hoban.



Ive only trained with Jack once, and it was an amazing seminar... If his students become half as good as him they will be 1000x better than I am... thats for sure.


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## Cryozombie (Oct 29, 2006)

Kreth said:


> Xue, I didn't realize you're in Albany. You're only about an hour from me.



Don't train with Kreth, he hits girls...


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## Xue Sheng (Oct 29, 2006)

Kreth said:


> Xue, I didn't realize you're in Albany. You're only about an hour from me.


 
Actually I live near there just a bit further north, but I currently spend way to much time in big city of Smalbany



Cryozombie said:


> Don't train with Kreth, he hits girls...


 
Thanks for the warning, will not bring any girls should I go see Kreth.


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## furyu (Oct 30, 2006)

I have a shidoshi level student that lives in the Albany area (Mechanicville).  If you are interested let me know.

Matt Hildreth
Bujinkan Tohoku Dojo
nybujinkan.com


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## Xue Sheng (Oct 31, 2006)

furyu said:


> I have a shidoshi level student that lives in the Albany area (Mechanicville). If you are interested let me know.
> 
> Matt Hildreth
> Bujinkan Tohoku Dojo
> nybujinkan.com


 
Thank You, I may just do that sometime.


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## Xue Sheng (Oct 31, 2006)

Thank you for the responses. 

Although since joining MT I have become very interested in Ninjutsu I currently do not have the time to pursue any training in it, although the more I read the more I think about it. But currently I am very busy trying to keep up my Tai Chi, Xingyi and train my new CMA (so many trees so little time you know), but thanks for the offers, I do greatly appreciate them and I will keep them in mind. Even the fact that Kreth isnt that far away, actually I use to drive through there about once or twice a year, up until 3 years ago.

As I originally said I wanted to know if it was a good school just in case I was asked again by someone about a Ninjutsu school in the area. And as you are probably all very aware if someone knows you practice martial arts many refer people to you that are asking about specific training. Up until now I have said no when asked about Ninjutsu. 

Many Thanks :asian:


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## DWeidman (Oct 31, 2006)

Don Roley said:


> ...Yet the typical person would look at the above and think that he not only knew Gyokushin ryu, but could teach it to you.


 
You mean you don't have the full transmission of this school?  I apparently do (it says so right on my certs) -- I just assume it was a ninja school because i don't remember ever learning it (damn ninjas snuck into my head and taught me without me even knowing they were there...).

My fav is when someone asks to learn Togakure Ryu.

I take them around the corner from where I used to teach -- and we would stand in front of this huge brick wall...  and I would say,  _"when you find it - you will be able to start your training..."_

*sighs*

I love screwing with the noobs.

-Daniel Weidman
Bujinkan TenChiJin Guy...


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## kouryuu (Oct 31, 2006)

furyu said:


> I have a shidoshi level student that lives in the Albany area (Mechanicville). If you are interested let me know.
> 
> Matt Hildreth
> Bujinkan Tohoku Dojo
> nybujinkan.com


 
Matt, it was good to see you in Japan again, glad you got back home safely, i`ll be back there next April, how about you??


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## furyu (Nov 1, 2006)

kouryuu said:


> Matt, it was good to see you in Japan again, glad you got back home safely, i`ll be back there next April, how about you??


Norman,
Hope all is well with you.  It was great to see you again as well.  I will be back there in March and then again in Sept/Oct.  

Matt


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## kouryuu (Nov 1, 2006)

furyu said:


> Norman,
> Hope all is well with you. It was great to see you again as well. I will be back there in March and then again in Sept/Oct.
> 
> Matt


 
I`ll see you in September then, you have a good year and please keep in touch.


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## Xue Sheng (Nov 1, 2006)

Pardon me but I think my idiocy is showing. 

After reading through the thread again I realize I have more questions. I no longer train any Japanese martial arts and I haven&#8217;t for many years. I train CMA and I have discovered that the Japanese terminology being used I do not understand fully or at all. 

From WAAAAAY back in my Jujitsu days all I can remember are belt rankings from White to Black; White, Green, Brown, Black and the various grades in between. 

So what does shidoshi level student mean?

Also I made an assumption here that maybe I should not have made. I assumed that Togakure Ryu Ninpo, Gyokko Ryu Kosshijutsu, Koto Ryu Koppojutsu, Shinden Fudo Ryu Daken Taijutsu, Kukishin Ryu Taijutsu, Takagiyoshin Ryu Jutaijutsu, Kumogakure Ryu Ninpo, Gyokushin Ryu Ninpo, Gikan Ryu Koppojutsu were various styles or schools of Ninjutsu much the same as there is Chen Style Tai Chi, Yang style Tai Chi. Or Hebei style xingyi, Shanxi style xingyi, Henan style Xingyi, etc. 

Was that a correct assumption?


*EDIT:* and addition

I study non-sport Sanda as well and it pretty much trains kicks, punches, joint locks, take downs, etc.

Jujitsu, WAAAAY back when I did it had kicks punches, joint locks, throws, etc. 

Other style I have done or do include weapons training

What makes up Ninjitsu? 
Or if there is a post I should read somewhere else just tell me or possibly a book that might give me an idea.


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## Grey Eyed Bandit (Nov 1, 2006)

Xue Sheng said:


> So what does shidoshi level student mean?


 
Fifth dan and above (well, some say up to 10th dan, that's when many people will refer to you as shihan).



Xue Sheng said:


> Also I made an assumption here that maybe I should not have made. I assumed that Togakure Ryu Ninpo, Gyokko Ryu Kosshijutsu, Koto Ryu Koppojutsu, Shinden Fudo Ryu Daken Taijutsu, Kukishin Ryu Taijutsu, Takagiyoshin Ryu Jutaijutsu, Kumogakure Ryu Ninpo, Gyokushin Ryu Ninpo, Gikan Ryu Koppojutsu were various styles or schools of Ninjutsu much the same as there is Chen Style Tai Chi, Yang style Tai Chi. Or Hebei style xingyi, Shanxi style xingyi, Henan style Xingyi, etc.


 
Those are the nine schools that make up Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu. 



Xue Sheng said:


> What makes up Ninjitsu?


 
Ninjutsu per se is nothing you can actively practice, it is a specialized topic that mainly deals with the gathering and usage of information. What we practice within the Bujinkan is Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu, armed and unarmed concepts drawn from the nine traditional Japanese schools (and every now and then, a few others).


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## Xue Sheng (Nov 1, 2006)

Nimravus said:


> Ninjutsu per se is nothing you can actively practice, it is a specialized topic that mainly deals with the gathering and usage of information. What we practice within the Bujinkan is Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu, armed and unarmed concepts drawn from the nine traditional Japanese schools (and every now and then, a few others).


 
So from this I can gather I am an idiot.  

Let me see if I can get this into my brain, (and believe me at thie point in my day it is doubtful ) Instead of telling someone there is a Ninjitsu school in my area I should be saying a Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu school.

And this is sounding more and more interesting. 

Thanks


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## DWeidman (Nov 1, 2006)

Xue Sheng said:


> Let me see if I can get this into my brain, (and believe me at thie point in my day it is doubtful ) Instead of telling someone there is a Ninjitsu school in my area I should be saying a Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu school.


 
yep.

Or just walk into the place and ask them to show you what they know of "ninjutsu".  Most of us have about 15 mins of material...

LOL

-DW


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## Tenchijin2 (Nov 1, 2006)

DWeidman said:


> yep.
> 
> Or just walk into the place and ask them to show you what they know of "ninjutsu". Most of us have about 15 mins of material...
> 
> ...


 
Does this count the time it takes you to finish putting on your gi and walk out to the mats?



The truth is, we mainly practice taijutsu. Which is to say jujutsu, koppojutsu, and kosshijutsu mostly. Those are physical fighting arts with complex techniques and methods that require much study.

A ninja would probably know those things, but studying 'ninjutsu' wouldn't teach you about them. Does that make sense?


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## DWeidman (Nov 2, 2006)

Tenchijin2 said:


> Does this count the time it takes you to finish putting on your gi and walk out to the mats?


 
Of course.  It also involves counting out the correct change for the _"ninja secrets sold here for $29.95"_  and filling out the non-disclosure statement as well as the release of liability (since death is almost always involved with sharing these secrets).

Daniel _"Death-Dealer"_ Weidman


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## Xue Sheng (Nov 2, 2006)

DWeidman said:


> Of course. It also involves counting out the correct change for the _"ninja secrets sold here for $29.95"_ and filling out the non-disclosure statement as well as the release of liability (since death is almost always involved with sharing these secrets).
> 
> Daniel _"Death-Dealer"_ Weidman


 
This would of course explain why I have meant so few ninjas....


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## Xue Sheng (Nov 3, 2006)

OK another question from one who knows little of the ways of the Ninja 

Seriously I seem to becoming more intersted in Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu and I was looking around the web and I found a general description here

http://www.answers.com/topic/bujinkan

How good of a general over view of Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu is this?


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## Fu_Bag (Nov 4, 2006)

Xue Sheng,

Hi  How's the search going? That seems to be a pretty good article. I'd imagine you'd pick things up pretty quickly with all of your previous training. It's weird that the article didn't mention the reverse-edge kamehameha blast +1,000,000,000,000 spiked Ninja Armbands of Doom. 

I don't know what's up with that..........  

What were they thinking?

Anyway, hope the search goes well. 

Fu Bag


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