# Please explain this to me



## Burnerbob (Jan 1, 2011)

Funny some years ago (Kung Fu TV series era) every dojo that I saw in my travels advertised that they were teaching Kung Fu, yeah right.
Now every Korean Do Jang is teaching "Hapkido". Why is there not some governing group to oversee such atrocities.
The average person has no clues, but are willing to shell out hard earned dollars only to be mislead.
Sorry just had to vent.


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## jks9199 (Jan 1, 2011)

How would you create such a governing body?  Which art is legitimate?  How do you prove it? 

Lots of TKD schools in my area still have a karate label, for example, because it was more recognizable when they (or the parent chain) opened years ago.


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## Burnerbob (Jan 1, 2011)

Point: I guess you misunderstood what I was saying. Not a label, but rather jumping on the bandwagon of knowing an art that they are not trained in.
"Hapkido" taught, meanwhile the instructor has no knowledge at all.

Point : When "Kung Fu" was popular, everyone wanted to cash in, eventually they fell by the wayside.

Counterpoint: There are enough legitamate organizations who could ban together to help inform the public.


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## WC_lun (Jan 1, 2011)

The problem I see with the organisations banding together to promote "legitimate" arts is that at first thier aim are good.  As time goes on and people see they can make a buck through the organization, and egoes get involved, the organisation devolves into what it was established to fight.


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## dancingalone (Jan 1, 2011)

You can't generalize this particular issue.  Not all TKD dojang teach bad or improper hapkido.  In fact, there's some highly ranked ITF or KKW people who also hold accepted hapkido ranks from Ji or Myung.  Kind of a slippery slope to start on this particular crusade IMO.


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## leadleg (Jan 1, 2011)

Burnerbob said:


> Point: I guess you misunderstood what I was saying. Not a label, but rather jumping on the bandwagon of knowing an art that they are not trained in.
> "Hapkido" taught, meanwhile the instructor has no knowledge at all.
> 
> Point : When "Kung Fu" was popular, everyone wanted to cash in, eventually they fell by the wayside.
> ...


 I have a TKD school and teach HKD,I would not advise anyone to teach HKD,I do not think HKD is well known to the public. I barely pay my electric bill from my HKD program. 
Now I should take down my TKD/HKD sign and put MMA,that would be bandwagon material.


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## DMcHenry (Jan 1, 2011)

My first TKD dojang said in a big sign "Korean Karate and Kung Fu", painted in the window "Tae Kwon Do".

I remember asking (someone asking) the master why does it say Kung Fu when he wasn't actually teaching Kung Fu?  He explained that whenever someone was asking about martial arts they asked if you did Kung Fu.  Most don't know the difference, but he said what they really wanted was what he was teaching.   He said he thought that Kung Fu was actually only for lazy people or movie makers 

I've seen many schools still say "Karate" out front, only to find they actually teach Tang Soo Do or Tae Kwon Do as the *style* of Karate they were teaching.

Again, if you asked a new student what was the difference between Karate, Kung Fu, Taekwondo, Tangsoodo, Hapkido, etc. they wouldn't know.  They are just looking for a martial arts school.  I remember years back people asking me if I did Judo too - they just have no clue.


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## terryl965 (Jan 1, 2011)

Funny every TKD school in my area is teaching MMA along with there TKD and must advetrtise they are MMA certified instructors :erg:, problem with that how does one become MMA certified when they have neveer done it in there life?


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## KarateMomUSA (Jan 1, 2011)

Burnerbob said:


> The average person has no clues, but are willing to shell out hard earned dollars only to be mislead.


This is most likely the root of the problem. Since the general public often doesn't know, they can be taken advantage of easier


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## KarateMomUSA (Jan 1, 2011)

DMcHenry said:


> I've seen many schools still say "Karate" out front, only to find they actually teach Tang Soo Do or Tae Kwon Do as the *style* of Karate they were teaching.


Isn't Tang Soo Do karate?
Don't some apply the name TKD to the Korean karate that they didn't really evolve from?
(Above points not meant as a slur)


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## leadleg (Jan 1, 2011)

terryl965 said:


> Funny every TKD school in my area is teaching MMA along with there TKD and must advetrtise they are MMA certified instructors :erg:, problem with that how does one become MMA certified when they have neveer done it in there life?


 Through Pelegrini's org you can get an mma certificate stating you are certified to teach MMA,$150 dollars I think. You can buy a charter from him for $500 dollars and get a school certification, an instructor liscense,a school flag and one patch that says you teach combat hapkido.


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## KarateMomUSA (Jan 1, 2011)

I think it is clear that at some point TKD did become the world's most popular martial art. In order for that to happen, the customer base had to expand. Once that did, some school owners in attempts to keep their customer base & the revenue that it brings, catered the training to this new wider range of students, from the very young to the much older. To me, once that started to occur, students who sought out real street or combat self defence started to look elsewhere. In the 1970s it was called combat karate. Now we have MMA as an alternative. As this happened TKD school owners to compete with the new model have tried to advertise hapkido, karate & MMA, as they have the self defence tone to it. 
This is just my viewpoint & why I think that we can learn from history when we see that TKD was 1st named & devised by the Korean military & used as a means for self defence, compiling or consolidating from the fighting systems available to them at the time. So in original TKD, the hoo sin sul component allows whatever you need, from where ever you can get it, as long as it works, as long as it does the job, the job of defending yourself


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## Daniel Sullivan (Jan 2, 2011)

No offense to the OP, but *what* hapkido bandwagon???  Being a hapkidoin and instructor, I would be pleased as punch to know that there is indeed a bandwagon and that I am legitimately riding in it.  

But so far, outside of martial arts circles, I have to explain to virtually everyone what hapkido is.

A lot of high ranked TKD instructors do have some exposure to hapkido, and some are ranked highly enough to teach it as a separate art.  Most incorporate it into their existing taekwondo curriculum.  Exchange between hapkido and taekwondo is as old as both arts.  Gen. Choi brought in a hapkido master to develop the hoshinsul for the ITF.

Daniel


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## miguksaram (Jan 4, 2011)

Things to keep in mind is that some Koreans who were originally from Kyung-hee or Young-in University, majored in either TKD or HKD and minored in the other.  Some TKD schools have subscribed to Pelligrini's CHKD course as a supplemental program to their TKD curriculum.  There are some instructors who are certified HKD instructors, but TKD brings in the money.  

My TKD instructor's good friend is a Kuksulwon master.  They would work with each other all the time and he eventually put together a small basic HKD program that he implements into the school curriculum.  So as you see, they may not be false advertising.  The only way to know is to go train with them or just ask them.

In reference to the MMA certification, there are several organizations around today that are doing that one most famous is America's Top 10 group.


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## Kong Soo Do (May 19, 2011)

There is a legitimate side of the coin, and an ilegitimate side.  Many of the original Kwan founders had ranking (or at least training) in arts such as Shotokan, Shudokan, Shuri Te etc.  When the 60's explosion came about for TKD, many of the first and second generation instructors used 'Taekwondo Karate' or 'Korean Karate'.  And as noted above, Tang Soo Do has done this as well.  The motive wasn't to deceive the public but rather bring the art of TKD/TSD into the limelight by using a more recognized term.

Nowadays of course, we occassionally have the term 'karate' still attached to Korean arts for the commerical value.  I've not seen this specifically with Hapkido though.  But I have seen a plethora of TKD/MMA schools open and close.  The ilegitimate side is the ones that perpetuate falsehoods such as TKD/TSD being 2000 years old and such.  And unfortunately, many take a weekend MMA seminar somewhere and now they are World Champions that have of course taught the Navy SEALs.  

Discussion board and Yahoo/Google searches will better inform the public than any banding together of organizations.  With organizations it will always turn to 'who's the boss'?


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## Burnerbob (May 19, 2011)

Daniel Sullivan said:


> No offense to the OP, but *what* hapkido bandwagon??? Being a hapkidoin and instructor, I would be pleased as punch to know that there is indeed a bandwagon and that I am legitimately riding in it.
> 
> But so far, outside of martial arts circles, I have to explain to virtually everyone what hapkido is.
> 
> ...


 Re-read please. What I mean is those who do not know the first thing about Hapkido, but since it has become a way of making money from persons of no knolwedge at all.


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## shesulsa (May 20, 2011)

I see much more of every freakin' martial art out there claiming to teach "MMA" - and to make matters worse, there's an MMA store here IN THE MALL.  IN THE MALL!!  Who claim that only ranked, certified teachers teach there. Know what you have to do to become a certified teacher? Train for 20 hours.

I do see a lot of KMA dojangs saying they teach HKD along with TKD when the truth is they teach a few joint locks they learned in a seminar or two.

Really, it's discussion boards like this and the frankness of people like us out in the community that can make any difference whatsoever.


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## Daniel Sullivan (May 20, 2011)

Burnerbob said:


> _
> 
> 
> Daniel Sullivan said:
> ...


Re-read please. What I mean is those who do not know the first thing about Hapkido, but since it has become a way of making money from persons of no knolwedge at all.[/quote]
I got what you were saying when I responded five months ago. Hapkido is a poor choice of arts to make money from people with no knowledge at all; nobody knows what it is. The most popular arts for such fleecing seem to be BJJ, MMA and Krav Maga.

Daniel

*Edit: not sure why it is breaking up the quotes like that, but no matter how many times I go in and fix it, it keeps putting it back that way.*


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## oftheherd1 (May 27, 2011)

dancingalone said:


> You can't generalize this particular issue. Not all TKD dojang teach bad or improper hapkido. In fact, there's some highly ranked ITF or KKW people who also hold accepted hapkido ranks from Ji or Myung. Kind of a slippery slope to start on this particular crusade IMO.


 
I understand where Burnerbob is coming from, having seen TKD schools advertise Hapkido instruction, and yet not really know much, having only learned a few techniques.  They apprently teach some techniques during class to some select students.  @ Daniel Sullivan - There is a TDK school on Little River Turnpike in Annadale, VA, that may fit that bill.  Hapkido didn't seem to be the thrust of their school when I once visited, but it was listed on their building.

On the other hand, it may not.  As dancingalone said, many martial artists, masters and grand masters especially, are belted in more than one MA.  My former GM (RIP), was a GM in Hapkido, 5th Dan in TKD, 1st Dan in Kumdo, and trained to 1st Dan in Judo but didn't test due to a shoulder injury.  In Korea, once a student reaches 3rd dan in their art and indicate a desire to continue, they are often encouraged to learn and be belted in another art.  Then if they still wish to continue, return and continue.  At least it used to be so.


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## oftheherd1 (May 27, 2011)

Daniel Sullivan said:


> Re-read please. What I mean is those who do not know the first thing about Hapkido, but since it has become a way of making money from persons of no knolwedge at all.


I got what you were saying when I responded five months ago. Hapkido is a poor choice of arts to make money from people with no knowledge at all; nobody knows what it is. The most popular arts for such fleecing seem to be BJJ, MMA and Krav Maga.

Daniel

*Edit: not sure why it is breaking up the quotes like that, but no matter how many times I go in and fix it, it keeps putting it back that way.*[/quote]

I would guess it is indeed a poor choice to make money from; it isn't well known, it isn't a team sport and is difficult have competitions with, it requires a lot of touching which seems to make women uncomfortable, it seems to be equated with something very difficult to learn.  But fortunately, you seem to be doing something with it.  I salute you for that.


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