# Impact weapons?



## KenpoTex (Jun 10, 2007)

Just curious to see what types of impact weapons everybody carries/uses. Note: I'm not interested in things you may train with at the studio (bo-staffs, sticks, etc.), I want to see what you actually carry on a daily basis whether it's job-related or just for personal protection.
Why do you carry the tool? What do you like about it? Dislike?

Show me what y'all got...I love gear-porn 

Here are the ones that I carry or have carried at various times.
Clockwise from left:

-21" ASP Collapsable baton--Great tool, very versatile. The downside is that it's heavy.
-9" 14 oz. Blackjack, manufacturer unknown--absolutely wicked, hit someone with this and it's over. Unfortunately, awkward and heavy to carry.
-8" 10 oz. "Van De Camp" flat-sap, made by Todd Foster--Much easier to carry than the 'jack or baton, still hits hard. Good retention due to strap, designed to hit with the edge rather than the flat in order to focus more energy at the point of contact. Downsides? haven't found one yet.
-Worden "Travel-Wrench" impact karambit--very versatile, doesn't look like a weapon to most people, good retention due to the ring. Downside-it's a little weird to carry due to the shape
-5 1/2" Kubaton, aluminium--one of my favorites...easy to carry, very effective and a variety of objects can perform the same role (flashlight, marker, etc.) Downside? limited range
-Keating "Stinger"--vicious little devil  can be attached to keys and carried in hand, focuses a tremendous amount of force on the target, easy to hide. downside-you're limited to punching range.


----------



## megat (Jun 10, 2007)

woaaa what an arsenal u have there, i usually just rely on my belt or screwdriver. the long kind. nasty for thrusting.


----------



## tellner (Jun 10, 2007)

The Great Toad Hoard has quite a number, but I don't generally carry around museum pieces on a daily basis. The ones I actually take when leaving the house depend on a lot of things but include bookweights, flat saps, palm saps, a cane-length knobkerrie, a belt with a truly fearsome buckle, weighted scarves and a cane carved out of a pick handle.


----------



## MaartenSFS (Jun 10, 2007)

I will swear by the baton. I just almost used it again last night. I had my hand around it in my pocket, ready to draw, but the situation de-escalated by itself and it wasn't necessary. Just knowing it was there was a major confidence booster. The others I dislike because of range - especially the Kubaton. And the knife also because it is difficult to use without killing or creating irriversable damage.


----------



## Drac (Jun 10, 2007)

I carry and teach the Monodnock Auto Lock baton, far superior to Asp..I carry a Kubotan but never brandish it, its more of a painful surprise..I also carry one of the canes from CaneMasters..I have the privledge of attending a quite class taught by GM Mark Shuey Sr the founder...


----------



## Dave Leverich (Jun 10, 2007)

Pretty much just hands and feet, although I have a 6" kubaton I made from rattan as a keychain.


----------



## Grenadier (Jun 10, 2007)

Metal kubotan on the keychain.  Even though I'll use my Spyderco Police knife before it, sometimes, you need a hard, blunt tool, when edged weapons aren't idea.  

While in my car, though, that's a different story.  I have a 5 D-cell Maglite flashlight (loaded up with 5 D-cell Energizer batteries), just in case if I need to change a tire at night time, and a Brazilian Cherry (Jatoba) Hanbo that I keep in there in case if someone needs a makeshift tourniquet.


----------



## Drac (Jun 10, 2007)

Grenadier said:


> and a Brazilian Cherry (Jatoba) Hanbo that I keep in there in case if someone needs a makeshift tourniquet


 
RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Bill Bednarick (Jun 11, 2007)

I have a few pieces that I have carried at various times in the past and still keep close.

Worden Travel Wrench -- One in the visor of the car, and one in the gear bag for training. I like it and train with it often.

Keating Stinger -- Light and easy to carry with a Rivercity sheath I got it with. I like it and carry one in the gear bag to train with. I put the keychain sheath on the keys from time to time, but it's not EDC.

Combative Customs cane -- This has been going everywhere lately. It's bulletproof and low key. I make these BTW. It's .750 solid fiberglass with a red Oak handle.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Saps -- What can I say... I made these too. 
I don't carry one, but feel they are would be much better than a knife when used properly. They do not need to be used with lethal intent to be effective, and would expose you to much less bio-hazard should you employ one. They have certainly been making a comeback in popularity.


----------



## LawDog (Jun 11, 2007)

My favorite all time impacting tool,
A 12" stick with a set of ***** at the other end. Bought it in 1982, has never failed me.


----------



## jks9199 (Jun 11, 2007)

Classic truncheon!  Gotta love the old stuff...  I still know a couple of cops who carry a hickory stick.  (One guy has the stick his father used...  And has added his own dents to it.)

Me... I carry a 26" ASP.  I own a similar Monadnock Autolock, but I'm not permitted to carry items not issued to me by the department, outside strict limits.  (The Autolock is nicer 'cause it can be opened by pulling on it, and closed by pushing the button, not thrusting into the pavement.)


----------



## Blindside (Jun 11, 2007)

Keating Stinger

Inova XO3 flashlight, I like it because it doesn't look "tactical" in way an accessorized Surefire does.  Bright enough to blind in day and sturdy enough to act as a decen fistload.


----------



## MaartenSFS (Jun 11, 2007)

jks9199 said:


> Classic truncheon! Gotta love the old stuff... I still know a couple of cops who carry a hickory stick. (One guy has the stick his father used... And has added his own dents to it.)
> 
> Me... I carry a 26" ASP. I own a similar Monadnock Autolock, but I'm not permitted to carry items not issued to me by the department, outside strict limits. (The Autolock is nicer 'cause it can be opened by pulling on it, and closed by pushing the button, not thrusting into the pavement.)


 
How is the quality of the 26"? I heard that because they are the same weight as the 21" they are more likely to break. Or is that true of other companies. I don't like the Autolock because there are more ways that it can fail you. If one employs the system I developed for the telescopic baton (Bagunshu), they will find that it is indeed an almost perfect self defense weapon. Try deploying it from straight out of your pocket.


----------



## MaartenSFS (Jun 11, 2007)

Chinese police and security guards often carry these. 






About 21" with spikes projecting from the top area.


----------



## megat (Jun 11, 2007)

woaaa deadly. that can easily tore off some skin, just wanna ask, is it legal to carry these things in ur country.


----------



## LawDog (Jun 11, 2007)

I had an expandable Monadnock that had been issued to me. I only used it when I ran baton classes at the police academy or at a police baton seminar. A few years ago I was demonstrating to a class on how you can stike someone with the end on the stick while making the expansion swing. The expandable baton broke at the securement pin letting the plastic end fly out of the metal handle striking a student in the face. I had two more break while making this same expansion swing.
Trust them now I do not.


----------



## Drac (Jun 11, 2007)

LawDog said:


> I had an expandable Monadnock that had been issued to me. I only used it when I ran baton classes at the police academy or at a police baton seminar. A few years ago I was demonstrating to a class on how you can stike someone with the end on the stick while making the expansion swing. The expandable baton broke at the securement pin letting the plastic end fly out of the metal handle striking a student in the face. I had two more break while making this same expansion swing.
> Trust them now I do not.


 
You BROKE an AutoLock??????????????????Now that's the reason I still carry my old fashion one piece PR-24..I broke the original assisting the FD on a fire under a bridge, but that's a story best told over a beer or several...


----------



## LawDog (Jun 11, 2007)

Drac,
Tomorrow I will take a photo of it and post the jpeg on this thread.


----------



## Drac (Jun 11, 2007)

LawDog said:


> Drac,
> Tomorrow I will take a photo of it and post the jpeg on this thread.


 
That is scary...I have used my Monodnock Auto Lock numerous times in classes without incident..Maybe its living on borrowed time...


----------



## Rich Parsons (Jun 11, 2007)

Go the the stationary or supplies area of your work place.

Grab one black and one red pen. Both are medium point. 

This is what I carry on me and with me all the time.


----------



## jks9199 (Jun 11, 2007)

Huh...

They'd just come out within the last year or so when I was in the academy.  We got a deal, and most of us bought one.  During training with them, we did have the impact tip break off of a couple, and Monadnock was great about replacing them.  In fact, they not only wanted to replace them, but wanted to examine why they'd broken.   (Is that what happened to yours, Lawdog?  'cause I can't figure out how the actual metal barrels of it could come apart...)

Since I don't use it on the street, I don't have much to say about how it holds up...  With the ASP, I've found that you do need to do a little maintenance, and watch the tension clip.  It'll wear out...


----------



## LawDog (Jun 12, 2007)

jks9199,
The batons that I broke are the standard expandables, these have a metal handle with a plastic expanding rod. The plastic rod broke in half at the point where it is attached inside the metal handle. All three broke at the same location.


----------



## MaartenSFS (Jun 12, 2007)

http://www.2dao.cn/Shop/sg/casp/200604/88.html

You should have gotten one of these. I missed my target and hit a concrete wall once with no damage whatsoever, not even a stratch. And mine was a Chinese copy.

It only consists of five pieces (But could better be reduced to 4). Two steel "rods", the steel handle with some kind of foam-like grip (Excellent), the butt end (A powerful magnet), and the worst piece - a simple ring where the "rods" slide out. The latter I have had to re-glue several times, but this is hardly anything more than aesthetically pleasing.

If I could get one a little longer and with the ring being an actual part of the handle, it would be better. DAMN ASSEMBLY LINES!


----------



## MaartenSFS (Jun 12, 2007)

megat said:


> woaaa deadly. that can easily tore off some skin, just wanna ask, is it legal to carry these things in ur country.


 
Quite. It can puncture the skull. Tearing off skin and hair is an effortless byproduct of every strike.  In China (Not my country) they are in the standard line-up of police/guard weapons and there are different variations. I'm not sure if civilians can carry these, but telescopic batons are legal.


----------



## KenpoTex (Jun 12, 2007)

thanks for all the replies...some neat stuff


----------



## jks9199 (Jun 12, 2007)

LawDog said:


> jks9199,
> The batons that I broke are the standard expandables, these have a metal handle with a plastic expanding rod. The plastic rod broke in half at the point where it is attached inside the metal handle. All three broke at the same location.


The Autolock is all metal; http://www.batons.com/autolock.aspx will take you to their page.  I'm guessing, based on their product line, that you're talking about the Positive Lock Baton (http://www.batons.com/positivelocksx.aspx) which is a different product.  

I would be hesitant about a polycarbonate baton, especially expandable.  I remember some time back being part of a group given some supposedly "unbreakable" poly/wood batons; we broke all 12 of them.


----------



## MaartenSFS (Jun 12, 2007)

Sounds like a field day.


----------



## LawDog (Jun 12, 2007)

jks9199,
Thanks for those links. I do know about the autolocks, we have tested them to see if they would work well in our area of the four seasons. Our results were a mixed bag of pros and cons.


----------



## Blindside (Jun 12, 2007)

Whoops forgot one, I have a "tire thumper" in my car.  It is a small (18") bat with a two inch metal head and a lanyard.  I found it at a Flying J and decided that such an item could be potentially very useful for you know, checking tires.

Lamont


----------



## LawDog (Jun 12, 2007)

One of three broken Monandnock expandables.


----------



## Brian R. VanCise (Jun 12, 2007)

LawDog said:


> One of three broken Monandnock expandables.


 
Ouch.  I am not a fan of the Monandnock.  I still like the old PR-24.  However for pure impact I would go with an ASP anyday over just about any other blunt tactical tool partly because it works so well with what I do and partly because I have literally abused some ASP's and never had a problem.


----------



## Carol (Jun 12, 2007)

I absolutely _*love *_my E2D.  Got a lot more use out of it than I expected.  Haven't had any issues taking it on a plane either.







I also have my super secret marking kubotan in silver    Used to carry a green one but I used it so many times it....it....it.....ran out of ink.


----------



## LawDog (Jun 12, 2007)

Brian,
That is why I stand by that ole 12" steel ball stick of mine.


----------



## Drac (Jun 12, 2007)

Brian R. VanCise said:


> Ouch. I am not a fan of the Monandnock. I still like the old PR-24. However for pure impact I would go with an ASP anyday over just about any other blunt tactical tool partly because it works so well with what I do and partly because I have literally abused some ASP's and never had a problem.


 
Duuuuude...I would rather cut out my tongue that disagree with a Dark Lord, but Asp sucks...I have carried an Monadnock expandable for years and never had a problem..PLUS to close it its just a push of a button, no wacking it on the ground..We all have our likes and dislikes..And I STILL carry my old PR-24 in my cruiser case every shift..


----------



## LawDog (Jun 12, 2007)

Carol,
I am not real familiar with your E2D, how big is it? Does it have the new high intensity light?


----------



## Carol (Jun 12, 2007)

LawDog said:


> Carol,
> I am not real familiar with your E2D, how big is it?



Not very big...it's smaller than the AA maglite that I broke (I'm kind of infamous for breaking indestructible flashlights )  

Its about 4.8" long and weighs 3 ounces.  VERY easy to carry.  I'm thinking about getting a holster for it though...accidentally making contact with the crenolated bezel can hurt.  

Its good at keeping predators away...4-legged and 2-legged 

Does it have the new high intensity light?[/quote]

Yup it does.  Only drawback is high intensity=high power drain...the energy for the light has to come from someplace.  I keep a spare pair of batteries in the car just in case.


----------



## LawDog (Jun 12, 2007)

Carol,
Thanks for the quick response. I get the impression that you just tested the intensity of the light on yourself.
Did you close one eye?


----------



## Carol (Jun 12, 2007)

LawDog said:


> Carol,
> Thanks for the quick response. I get the impression that you just tested the intensity of the light on yourself.
> Did you close one eye?



Heh.  Andy M. taught me to close one eye to keep the rhodospiril (??  whatever that protein is that gives your eyes night vision) from bleaching out in the light.   

I did try it on myself...I couldn't raise the beam all the way to eye level before I wimped out..and that was in the basement with some ligths on.   I carry it with me if I'm out walking or jogging and turn it on I see something else moving.  I'm amazed at the output, even in lit areas.


----------



## LawDog (Jun 12, 2007)

For some reason I could picture that.
:lfao:


----------



## Carol (Jun 12, 2007)

LawDog said:


> For some reason I could picture that.
> :lfao:



Hey man.....gotta make sure it works on the street.  :lol2:


----------



## jks9199 (Jun 12, 2007)

LawDog said:


> jks9199,
> Thanks for those links. I do know about the autolocks, we have tested them to see if they would work well in our area of the four seasons. Our results were a mixed bag of pros and cons.


Any weapon is a balance; expandable batons are, by definition, not as solid as a hickory stick or other solid stick.  But you can carry it around a whole lot easier than a straight stick...  Which means that it's got a much better chance of being with you when you need it, instead of strapped on top of your war bag.  Within the expandables, you've got other tradeoffs, like you CAN thrust with an Autolock -- but you can't with an ASP or other friction lock baton.

The bottom line is -- like so much -- you gotta find what'll work for you in your situation.


----------



## arnisador (Jun 12, 2007)

I've never carried a sap. My image of it is all from the movies--a K.O. weapon to be used from behind. Has anyone used one in self-defense?


----------



## tellner (Jun 12, 2007)

arnisador said:


> I've never carried a sap. My image of it is all from the movies--a K.O. weapon to be used from behind. Has anyone used one in self-defense?



They're remarkably versatile and useful. A good sap can be anything from gentle remonstrance to deadly force depending on what part of the body you hit with what part of the sap, bruise, break, concuss, kill, cause pain or deaden a limb for a while. Hit someone in the back of the head and the results are going to be in the concussion to death part of the spectrum. Whack a bicep or thigh and it will be towards the other end.

Unfortunately, saps are illegal to carry most places and illegal to own in many. I happen to be lucky enough to live in an area where they can be carried legally as long as they are not concealed. Of course, if you carry one you run a serious risk of getting Officer Friendly's undivided and unsympathetic attention.


----------



## MaartenSFS (Jun 13, 2007)

jks9199 said:


> Any weapon is a balance; expandable batons are, by definition, not as solid as a hickory stick or other solid stick. But you can carry it around a whole lot easier than a straight stick... Which means that it's got a much better chance of being with you when you need it, instead of strapped on top of your war bag. Within the expandables, you've got other tradeoffs, like you CAN thrust with an Autolock -- but you can't with an ASP or other friction lock baton.
> 
> The bottom line is -- like so much -- you gotta find what'll work for you in your situation.


 
I have to disagree about the thrusting. I've been practising fencing-like thrusts on heavy bags for a while and it has not once "un-locked" on me. To "un-lock" the baton you must strike a hard un-movable surface. The only reason that it would "un-luck" is because one did not use enough force (Perhaps from momentum) to lock the rods into place well or it was oiled or something along those lines.

One can get quite accurate with the thrusts. Targeting the throat, the eyes, or other soft areas would not "un-lock" it. The solar plexus and the skull are more risky, but one can lock it again easily using momentum and it is also possible to lock it as you strike. And if collapsed the handle can be used as a "pocket stick".


----------



## Brian R. VanCise (Jun 13, 2007)

jks9199 said:


> Any weapon is a balance; expandable batons are, by definition, not as solid as a hickory stick or other solid stick. But you can carry it around a whole lot easier than a straight stick... Which means that it's got a much better chance of being with you when you need it, instead of strapped on top of your war bag. Within the expandables, you've got other tradeoffs, like you CAN thrust with an Autolock -- but you can't with an ASP or other friction lock baton.
> 
> The bottom line is -- like so much -- you gotta find what'll work for you in your situation.


 
I also thrust all the time on a heavy bag with no problem.  As a matter of fact I need concrete or something similar to collapse my ASP.


----------



## Brian R. VanCise (Jun 13, 2007)

LawDog said:


> Brian,
> That is why I stand by that ole 12" steel ball stick of mine.


 
That is a brutally effective tool!


----------



## Brian R. VanCise (Jun 13, 2007)

Drac said:


> Duuuuude...I would rather cut out my tongue that disagree with a Dark Lord, but Asp sucks...I have carried an Monadnock expandable for years and never had a problem..PLUS to close it its just a push of a button, no wacking it on the ground..We all have our likes and dislikes..And I STILL carry my old PR-24 in my cruiser case every shift..


 
Hey Drac that is fine everyone has to use what they like.  I do not like the feel of the Monadnock as well.  I do agree that closing an ASP is a pain at times when closing it.  However, they have never malfunctioned for me in any way.  I like the ASP because it is closer to the stick that I am familiar with and that is one of the major reasons why I like them.  I have also probably spent several thousand hours banging on a heavy bag with them so I am pretty familiar with it by now.

On a side note the old PR-24 is a great old trusty tool.  Technologically the Monadnock is a step up but that old trust one is still a good one.


----------



## Drac (Jun 13, 2007)

Brian R. VanCise said:


> On a side note the old PR-24 is a great old trusty tool. Technologically the Monadnock is a step up but that old trust one is still a good one.


 
I couldn't agree more..I carried it as an Aux Officer before I carried a sidearm...


----------



## jks9199 (Jun 13, 2007)

The headache, in my opinion (and that of a few DT instructors plus other cops that I've chatte with), of the PR-24 is that it takes more training to be safely effective, and it requires that the user practice more consistently to maintain that effectiveness.  Look at the Rodney King video; PR-24s were used, and nobody was using them effectively.  There's very little, outside of the circular/rotational strikes using the side-handle, that you can do with a PR-24 that you can't do with a straight stick.  (As an aside... there are collapsable models of the PR-24.)


----------



## Batleth (Jul 11, 2007)

I usually carry a mini-mag, or a kubaton. When I'm at work (I'm a RN-Paramedic) I usually carry a pair of those curved EMT shears. They make a great impact kerambit.


----------



## frank raud (Jul 18, 2007)

Bill Bednarick said:


> I have a few pieces that I have carried at various times in the past and still keep close.
> 
> Worden Travel Wrench -- One in the visor of the car, and one in the gear bag for training. I like it and train with it often.
> 
> ...


 
Bill, I like the cane. Looks very low key , most ordinary folks wouldn't ping to it's potential.


----------



## Bill Bednarick (Jul 19, 2007)

frank raud said:


> Bill, I like the cane. Looks very low key , most ordinary folks wouldn't ping to it's potential.



Yup that it the point of it. Unseen, yet powerful.

I cut down a 2" Poplar tree with the one in the picture. Took 3 hits, but hey it is a TREE after all.
My wife suddenly understood why I had this particular "stick" along for our walk after she saw that.


----------

