# How to be fast when you're slow



## Bill Mattocks (May 29, 2016)

Speed, generally speaking, is good. We should try our best to develop our speed in martial arts, but not by sacrificing power or technique or balance. However, some people are faster than others naturally. How can a slower martial artist survive?

First, be aware that speed often encourages bad techniques. People who are naturally fast often depend on their speed and neglect basics. Notice those weaknesses to exploit them when you can.

Second, learn to detect motion that telegraphs attacks. Before the fist can fly, the arm must move. Train yourself to react to the movements that announce attacks. You don't have to be faster if your response starts sooner.

Third, learn distancing. This is the art of putting yourself at the correct distance for you, depending on the situation and physical characteristics of the person you face. Ideally you will be out of their range but able to hit them. There are myriad methods for doing the latter, including...

Bend the knees. It unlocks the hips, allowing the body to rotate and extend the punch.
Turn the body so the opponent's strong side is furthest away. That might mean training yourself to lead left.
Practice body shifting. Learn to let your body move in, out, turning, and moving to the sides. When made automatic, this can keep you out of range of even fast opponents.

Speed is a characteristic. It can be hard to overcome, but it is not impossible. Attack the other characteristics. Balance, power, breathing, stances, transitions, and so on. It can be as simple as crowding or even tackLing the opponent, or as complex as baiting them into overreaching their own guard whilst you slide inside and end it with a strike or a takedown.

We have a young brown belt in our dojo who is chained lightning. So fast! He tells me he doesn't like to spar me because I'm so quick. Balderdash, I'm slow! But he has tells, he telegraphs his movements, and he fears being crowded by a huge person. I stay out of his range, work him into a corner, let him overextend with a flashy kick, and slide inside to wreck him. Sometimes I have to pay with some bruises before I can play my knuckle music, but not always. Fast, I'm not.


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## SenseiHitman (May 29, 2016)

When speaking of speed their is speed from athleticism, then their is speed from experience. ( I am assuming proper from in both instances) Speed from  athleticism leads to the ability to throw multiple powerful and effective tech. in a moments notice. Speed from experience gets the fight over faster.  The two types of speed work together.  No matter how hard one trains, as time passes athleticism fades away, as it fades away speed from experience replaces it.


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## Bill Mattocks (May 29, 2016)

I have had the advantage of having all varieties of slow. This fashed me mightily until I learned to look at it from the other side.


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## Touch Of Death (May 29, 2016)

Fast is athleticism, speed, short for Godspeed, comes form knowing what makes you faster.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (May 29, 2016)

One word of warning for the second tip, if you do look for telegraphing, make sure not to make this obvious, as it allows the person to do quicker feints if you are primed to react without needing the full movement.
Also, focus on conserving energy. If you can keep your energy and momentum while causing them to gas out by missing or just expending more energy, there will be a distinct shift in who is 'faster'.


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## Bill Mattocks (May 29, 2016)

kempodisciple said:


> One word of warning for the second tip, if you do look for telegraphing, make sure not to make this obvious, as it allows the person to do quicker feints if you are primed to react without needing the full movement.
> Also, focus on conserving energy. If you can keep your energy and momentum while causing them to gas out by missing or just expending more energy, there will be a distinct shift in who is 'faster'.



Good points, thanks!

With regard to fakes, I agree, but since I also believe that a committed response can become whatever it needs to be, I just throw that technique and flow with it, hopefully salvaging a hit from a busted technique. Granted I might get popped if they are advanced enough to do something like fake low hit or kick high. I've eaten a kick or two that way. But for SD, I really don't see that happening a lot.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (May 29, 2016)

Bill Mattocks said:


> Good points, thanks!
> 
> With regard to fakes, I agree, but since I also believe that a committed response can become whatever it needs to be, I just throw that technique and flow with it, hopefully salvaging a hit from a busted technique. Granted I might get popped if they are advanced enough to do something like fake low hit or kick high. I've eaten a kick or two that way. But for SD, I really don't see that happening a lot.


Absolutely agree regarding SD, my points were primarily directed towards sparring.


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## JowGaWolf (May 29, 2016)

Bill Mattocks said:


> Second, learn to detect motion that telegraphs attacks. Before the fist can fly, the arm must move. Train yourself to react to the movements that announce attacks. You don't have to be faster if your response starts sooner.


 You could have just posted this one tip since it works extremely well.  People think that I'm fast but in reality I just get a head start. lol. The other instructor uses the same techniques and when we drill he jokes that it's almost like cheating. I still train speed, but I don't give it as such a high rating as before.  I used to think speed was everything but it isn't.


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## Buka (May 29, 2016)

Do any of you folks do any speed work - exercises or drills to increase your speed?


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## JowGaWolf (May 29, 2016)

Buka said:


> Do any of you folks do any speed work - exercises or drills to increase your speed?


Yes.  My speed training = doing my forms as fast as I can and doing some Chin Na drills to help improve the speed.


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## drop bear (May 29, 2016)

Buka said:


> Do any of you folks do any speed work - exercises or drills to increase your speed?



Same as jow gar pretty much.  I just punch the pads faster and harder. 

Most people dont because they are trying to last the round.

But in reality you should be crawling after a pad round.


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## Brian R. VanCise (May 29, 2016)

Yes Buka, all the time and that is an excellent point.  This really should be an important point in anyone's training.  Maximize your attributes through specific drills designed to improve them as well as weight and cardiovascular training. (both aerobic and anaerobic)  This will allow you to implement your skill sets!

I have been told in the past that I will never be outmatched with pure speed.  As I grow older of course this is changing.   However, my timing and distance control is better now than when I was in my twenties.  So I am able to compensate.

Bill hits a lot of points regarding controlling the distance and understanding of how you work with distances.  See the slow moving parts of your opponent as they will tell you what they are going to do. ie. hips, shoulders 

Timing is important as well and should be cultivated at every opportunity during your training.



Bill Mattocks said:


> First, be aware that speed often encourages bad techniques. People who are naturally fast often depend on their speed and neglect basics. Notice those weaknesses to exploit them when you can.



I know so many people who are incredibly fast but also have spectacular technique.  So while this may play out with some individuals it definitely is not the norm in my experience!  It would be a mistake to count on this!


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## JR 137 (May 29, 2016)

After a few months of consistent heavy bag training, my hand speed is increased dramatically.   It wasn't because I kept trying to get faster; actually, I was just trying to get better technically.  I focused on correct form, posture, and keeping my guard up.  I videotaped myself, watched it in slo-mo, and kept my mistakes and how to fix them in my head.  Punching fast haphazardly is a wast of time, unless all you're looking for is cardio conditioning, Billy Blanks style.

But far more important than speed is what I consider being sharp, which is basically what I think you guys are saying too...

Recognizing openings, being at the proper distance, timing your technique correctly, hitting those openings with accuracy, hitting those openings with the right technique, and performing said technique with proper mechanics are cumulatively what I call being sharp.  You can have the fastest hands and feet the world has ever seen, but if you're not sharp, being that fast won't carry you too far.  It'll be enough to beat up on the beginners and a few steps up, but that's really it.

One of these days I'll be fast as lightning and razor sharp.  One of these days.  I'll get back to you when that happens.


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## Don Johnson (May 29, 2016)

Several great points already made in this thread.  At 51, I admit that I'm not as athletically fast as I was at 21.  That's ok though.  It requires time and practice to develop true speed.  Very few of the younger crowd have developed their skills to fully incorporate my following *Ten Secrets to Become Faster*...

1.  Distance management.  If you are at least just out of their range, they have to move their entire body toward you to strike.  Pretty easy to see them coming.

2.  Linear Kicks.  Legs are longer and stronger.  Kicks such as front thrust, side, and back can stop the opponents movement toward you before the opponent is ever close enough to hit you.

3.  Action vs reaction.  Be the first to strike, especially in Self Defense.  By definition, action is always faster.

4.  Eliminate waste.  1 is faster than 1-2.  Most people can literally double their speed by eliminating unnecessary movement.  The most common example is moving the front foot 4-6 inches toward the opponent before executing the intended technique.  Stop it!  

Another practical application is that if you must block, strike at the same time.  Block _and_ Strike is faster than Block _then_ Strike.

5.  Alternating Combinations.  Alternating sides doubles speed when you throw more than one technique.  For example, two punches thrown when thrown left-right will always be faster than left-left or right-right.  The second strike is reaching the target while the first is re-chambering.

6.  Target selection.  Some targets produce trauma in the opponent.  Some render them unconscious.  Some hurt more now.  Some hurt more later.  To accomplish your desired result faster, know your purpose and choose your targets appropriately.  

7.  Accuracy.  As we say in firearms, there is no such thing as a fast miss.  You must not only know your targets, you must hit them.

8.  Good technique.  In firearms there is an old saying that slow is smooth and smooth is fast.  Good technique is efficient and thus fast.

9.  Relax-Explode.  When one is tense, resistance against movement exist.  Relax until time to strike, then explode directly to the target.

10.  Think fast.  To get anything, you must first decide that you want it.  If you want to be faster, then think about becoming faster, expect it, and work for it.


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## Touch Of Death (May 30, 2016)

Don Johnson said:


> Several great points already made in this thread.  At 51, I admit that I'm not as athletically fast as I was at 21.  That's ok though.  It requires time and practice to develop true speed.  Very few of the younger crowd have developed their skills to fully incorporate my following *Ten Secrets to Become Faster*...
> 
> 1.  Distance management.  If you are at least just out of their range, they have to move their entire body toward you to strike.  Pretty easy to see them coming.
> 
> ...


I like this but it is missing that one little thing, and that is to use points of reference, otherwise known as, Keep Your guard up, but it is much bigger than that. It is a wax on, wax off, thing where after everything you do, you go through the check list: Stance, posture, knees bent, and hands in a position of readiness. This doesn't make you move any faster, but the early bird gets the worm.


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## Jaeimseu (May 30, 2016)

Action is faster than reaction, but if I anticipate the likely attack and have good timing it won't matter. In sparring, you must understand the game you're playing. It's also useful to know your opponent, if possible. It's easy to look fast when you know what's coming. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Jaeimseu (May 30, 2016)

Double post


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## Touch Of Death (May 30, 2016)

Jaeimseu said:


> Action is faster than reaction, but if I anticipate the likely attack and have good timing it won't matter. In sparring, you must understand the game you're playing. It's also useful to know your opponent, if possible. It's easy to look fast when you know what's coming.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Part of that is baiting attacks. Then, you look real fast.


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## Kung Fu Wang (May 30, 2016)

Buka said:


> Do any of you folks do any speed work - exercises or drills to increase your speed?


1. Punching speed - Jump in the air, throw 3 punches before your feet land back down to the ground.
2. Arm speed - Swing your arms around your body until you can't even see your own arms.
3. Kicking speed - After shower, front kick your leg, make sure all water on your leg is gone.
4. Throwing speed - Spin your body in such a way that your can feel your eye balls are going to fly out of your eye sockets.
5. Combo speed - Try to make 1,2 into 1 and 1,2,3 into 1,2.
6. Fighting speed - Hide your preparation in your previous move.
7. Body speed - coordinate your arm with your leg.
8. ...


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## Jaeimseu (May 30, 2016)

Touch Of Death said:


> Part of that is baiting attacks. Then, you look real fast.


Certainly, if you have a good understanding of the game, you can effectively bait people because you know what responses are likely to given positions or movements. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## lklawson (May 31, 2016)

kempodisciple said:


> One word of warning for the second tip, if you do look for telegraphing, make sure not to make this obvious, as it allows the person to do quicker feints if you are primed to react without needing the full movement.


Well, that *is* pretty much the whole point of feints.  

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (May 31, 2016)

lklawson said:


> Well, that *is* pretty much the whole point of feints.


I saw this at work, and had to explain to my coworker why I laughed suddenly. He didn't seem to appreciate it...


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## WaterGal (May 31, 2016)

Buka said:


> Do any of you folks do any speed work - exercises or drills to increase your speed?



On the athleticism front, I've started doing a class at the gym that involves a lot of plyo, which is amazing and totally kicking my ***.  It's all, like, frog jump, touch the floor, hop back, touch the floor, x8, then lunge this way, jump 180 and lunge that way, x8, etc for an hour.  I think this is really going to help me.


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## JowGaWolf (May 31, 2016)

WaterGal said:


> On the athleticism front, I've started doing a class at the gym that involves a lot of plyo, which is amazing and totally kicking my ***.  It's all, like, frog jump, touch the floor, hop back, touch the floor, x8, then lunge this way, jump 180 and lunge that way, x8, etc for an hour.  I think this is really going to help me.


Sounds like my kung fu classes.


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## Buka (May 31, 2016)

WaterGal said:


> On the athleticism front, I've started doing a class at the gym that involves a lot of plyo, which is amazing and totally kicking my ***.  It's all, like, frog jump, touch the floor, hop back, touch the floor, x8, then lunge this way, jump 180 and lunge that way, x8, etc for an hour.  I think this is really going to help me.



This is going to help you a whole bunch. Oh, you'll have so much fun! After it stops kicking your ***, of course.


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## drop bear (May 31, 2016)

WaterGal said:


> On the athleticism front, I've started doing a class at the gym that involves a lot of plyo, which is amazing and totally kicking my ***.  It's all, like, frog jump, touch the floor, hop back, touch the floor, x8, then lunge this way, jump 180 and lunge that way, x8, etc for an hour.  I think this is really going to help me.



At the very least it helps you avoid poor structure


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## Don Johnson (Jun 1, 2016)

Jaeimseu said:


> Action is faster than reaction, but if I anticipate the likely attack and have good timing it won't matter. In sparring, you must understand the game you're playing. It's also useful to know your opponent, if possible. It's easy to look fast when you know what's coming.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


To anticipate is to guess.  When training for the street, your paradigm must shift.  When your life or the lives of your family may be on the line, you can't afford to be wrong.  On the street, it's not sparring, it's not a game, you won't know your opponent(s) abilities, strategies, nor full intentions.  You may be seriously outmatched by size, strength, age.  There may be multiple attackers.  They may have weapons.  You don't care about looking fast.  You simply need to stop the attack quickly while minimizing damage to yourself and loved ones.  How to be fast when you are slow may be life or death.  When one believes they are good enough to use reaction rather than action, then one is violating a basic Sun Tzu principle of never underestimating one's opponent.  Why choose to start at a disadvantage?  If the fight is inevitable and unavoidable, strike first and don't stop striking.  Action is always faster than reaction.


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## Jaeimseu (Jun 1, 2016)

Don Johnson said:


> To anticipate is to guess.  When training for the street, your paradigm must shift.  When your life or the lives of your family may be on the line, you can't afford to be wrong.  On the street, it's not sparring, it's not a game, you won't know your opponent(s) abilities, strategies, nor full intentions.  You may be seriously outmatched by size, strength, age.  There may be multiple attackers.  They may have weapons.  You don't care about looking fast.  You simply need to stop the attack quickly while minimizing damage to yourself and loved ones.  How to be fast when you are slow may be life or death.  When one believes they are good enough to use reaction rather than action, then one is violating a basic Sun Tzu principle of never underestimating one's opponent.  Why choose to start at a disadvantage?  If the fight is inevitable and unavoidable, strike first and don't stop striking.  Action is always faster than reaction.


I'm not training specifically for the "street" and I'm not really concerned about the possibility of needing to fight for my life. In my opinion, if you need to fight for your life you've either already failed or you've just got horrible luck. When I reference understanding the game, I'm talking about sparring or competitive fighting. I apologize if that wasn't clear. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Don Johnson (Jun 1, 2016)

Jaeimseu said:


> I'm not training specifically for the "street" and I'm not really concerned about the possibility of needing to fight for my life. In my opinion, if you need to fight for your life you've either already failed or you've just got horrible luck. When I reference understanding the game, I'm talking about sparring or competitive fighting. I apologize if that wasn't clear.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It was clear.  Thanks.  After teaching many years of martial arts and both I and my students competing successfully in tournaments, I get the game.  I've simply transitioned to pure self defense now so I post from that perspective for those who are interested.


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## drop bear (Jun 1, 2016)

Reaction is faster than action.

That is science.

Reactions Faster than Actions, Study Finds

Otherwise if crap is looking a bit hairy create some distance. Keep your options open.try to avoid re stomping the groin on every body who approached you wanting to know the time.


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## lklawson (Jun 1, 2016)

drop bear said:


> Reaction is faster than action.
> 
> That is science.
> 
> Reactions Faster than Actions, Study Finds


The title is a little bit misleading, which they kinda admit later in the article where they point out that the time it takes to process the stimuli of an action is 10 times greater than "the reaction advantage" which they apparently noted.

The simplified version: Reaction movements are 21 milliseconds faster than action movements but it takes 200 milliseconds to "respond" to an action.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## drop bear (Jun 1, 2016)

lklawson said:


> The title is a little bit misleading, which they kinda admit later in the article where they point out that the time it takes to process the stimuli of an action is 10 times greater than "the reaction advantage" which they apparently noted.
> 
> The simplified version: Reaction movements are 21 milliseconds faster than action movements but it takes 200 milliseconds to "respond" to an action.
> 
> ...



There is that.


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## Touch Of Death (Jun 1, 2016)

drop bear said:


> Reaction is faster than action.
> 
> That is science.
> 
> ...


They should have bought a flippin' watch.


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## JowGaWolf (Jun 1, 2016)

Don Johnson said:


> To anticipate is to guess. ...you won't know your opponent(s) abilities, strategies, nor full intentions. you won't know your opponent(s) abilities, strategies, nor full intentions. Action is always faster than reaction.


I try not to guess anymore.  90% of the time I know where the first strike is going to be and what type it's going to be.  It's not magic or expert fighting and self-defense.  It's more about understanding how people naturally react and solve problems and taking advantage of it.  The benefit of what I do makes it possible for me to be faster than other people's action.

This is how I see attacks.  An attack has these 5 phases:
Intent > Preparation of action> Pre-action movement > Commitment > Physical attack Action.

If I can react before the Physical Attack Action occurs then I can be faster than the attack.  For me reaction is not always physical confrontation.  If I see that a person is slowly creeping towards and closing the gap in an effort to attack me, then I'll just increase the gap and as a result I have reacted faster than the Physical Attack action.  Some will say that I reacted before the Attack Action was committed, but in my mind that attack started when the creeping started.  This same mindset can be used in self-defense fighting and sparring.  Ideally I want to react to what happens before the Physical Attack Action. In a fight, this process of identifying Preparation of Attack can happen a split second before the punch, kick, or takedown. The good news is that the phases of an Attack is slower than the actual physical attack which means I'm reacting and committing action during a slower phase of the attack.

If I'm standing directly in front of someone and we are going to see who can punch who first, then my goal is to react to one of the 4 phases. If I can identify the type of attack then I can actually counter with my own attack faster than my opponent can send off a second attack.

This is how I identify the type of attack I'm getting.
Intent > *Bait Specific Attack* > Preparation of action> *Identify prep action* > Pre-action movement > _Commitment_ > *Counter+* *Attack* *Action* > Physical attack Action.
My actions are in Bold
The commitment phase is both what I must do and what my opponent must do. Even if my opponent doesn't commit I must continue to with my counter which will fall empty but my attack will still land before his.


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## lklawson (Jun 1, 2016)

JowGaWolf said:


> I try not to guess anymore.  90% of the time I know where the first strike is going to be and what type it's going to be.  It's not magic or expert fighting and self-defense.  It's more about understanding how people naturally react and solve problems and taking advantage of it.  The benefit of what I do makes it possible for me to be faster than other people's action.
> 
> This is how I see attacks.  An attack has these 5 phases:
> Intent > Preparation of action> Pre-action movement > Commitment > Physical attack Action.
> ...


You might find the construct of the OODA loop to be quite useful to your strategy.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## JowGaWolf (Jun 1, 2016)

lklawson said:


> You might find the construct of the OODA loop to be quite useful to your strategy.
> 
> Peace favor your sword,
> Kirk


Thanks.  that was my first time hearing of OODA, it was a good read and it's similar to what I described. I'll have to read about this more.  This stood out to me on one of the sites that I talked about OODA

"Human reaction time is defined as the time elapsing between the onset of a stimulus and the onset of a response to that stimulus"    This is how I see action and reaction.  Some people think that an attackers action is solely his / her own. But it's not.  The actions of an attacker are actually reactions that are based on what their victim is doing or not doing.  It's easy to think of Reactions as one sided, for example, someone attacks me I react.  But in reality the attacker also reacts and attacks based on what I'm doing.  Understanding this makes it possible for me to manipulate my attacker's actions and gives me a better opportunity to control a situation as well as his/her actions.

This is where fighting becomes a science.  When I understand that my actions trigger a specific reaction, then I can trigger that reaction at will and take advantage of it.   If my attacker does Attack B when I do action A, then I can do action A  for the specific goal of triggering action B.  Since I know that B is most likely to occur, then I can be prepared allowing me to react to Attack B faster than my attacker can execute B. 
 In this scenario one can say that the human attack time is defined as the time elapsing between the onset of a stimulus and the onset of a response to that stimulus.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Jun 1, 2016)

JowGaWolf said:


> Intent > *Bait Specific Attack* > Preparation of action> *Identify prep action* > Pre-action movement > _Commitment_ > *Counter+* *Attack* *Action* > Physical attack Action.
> My actions are in Bold.


IMO, not to let that attack to happen is always better than to let that attack to happen and then counter it.

To

- raise guard to bait for kick, or
- drop guard to bait for punch,

is good strategy. But the better strategy is "not to give your opponent that opportunity to attack". In order to do so, more strategies will be involved.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Jun 1, 2016)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> IMO, not to let that attack to happen is always better than to let that attack to happen and then counter it.
> 
> To
> 
> ...


I think that this depends on your personal skills. If you are very good at closing distance and preventing attack, go for that. If you are very good at avoiding attack and finding openings in their attacks, then do that strategy. Both are good, and both depend on the person doing it.


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## Touch Of Death (Jun 1, 2016)

kempodisciple said:


> I think that this depends on your personal skills. If you are very good at closing distance and preventing attack, go for that. If you are very good at avoiding attack and finding openings in their attacks, then do that strategy. Both are good, and both depend on the person doing it.


The attack itself adds power to your reaction, as well.


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## Touch Of Death (Jun 1, 2016)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> IMO, not to let that attack to happen is always better than to let that attack to happen and then counter it.
> 
> To
> 
> ...


Baiting is bigger than where you put your hands. It is also where you put yourself. Are you to the right, to the left, or squared off. As for the hands, I never even thought of up or down to bait a kick, LOL, but apart guarantees a shot up the middle, and hands in the center guarantees a hook, or a straight shot to the hands; so, you punch yourself in the face.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Jun 1, 2016)

Touch Of Death said:


> but apart guarantees a shot up the middle, and hands in the center guarantees a hook, or a straight shot to the hands; so, you punch yourself in the face.


To open your

- front door will bait your opponent to come in through that front door.
- side doors will bait your opponent to come in through that side doors.

If your straight punch can hit your opponent's hand and make his own hands to punch on his own face, he should get a rope, find a quite place, and hang himself. 

Again, I still think baiting is too conservative. If you move your arms through your opponent's striking path before he has a chance to do so, you will put your opponent in defense mode. To me, that's more aggressive approach.


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## JowGaWolf (Jun 1, 2016)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> IMO, not to let that attack to happen is always better than to let that attack to happen and then counter it.
> 
> To
> 
> ...


Denying your opponent the opportunity to attacks depends on how long each phase is and the distance.  The actions that I put in Bold is what changes on my end. The rest stay fairly consistent.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Jun 1, 2016)

JowGaWolf said:


> Denying your opponent the opportunity to attacks ...


When you detect your opponent's intention to attack, in

- wrestling, you push his shoulder to prevent that shoulder from moving forward. Since you don't give your opponent any chance to generate his speed and power, you can interrupt his attack in the early stage.
- striking, you move your arm toward and between his attacking arm and his head. Since you don't give your opponent a valid striking path, you can interrupt his attack in the early stage.


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## oftheherd1 (Jun 2, 2016)

Don Johnson said:


> To anticipate is to guess.  When training for the street, your paradigm must shift.  When your life or the lives of your family may be on the line, you can't afford to be wrong.  On the street, it's not sparring, it's not a game, you won't know your opponent(s) abilities, strategies, nor full intentions.  You may be seriously outmatched by size, strength, age.  There may be multiple attackers.  They may have weapons.  You don't care about looking fast.  You simply need to stop the attack quickly while minimizing damage to yourself and loved ones.  How to be fast when you are slow may be life or death.  When one believes they are good enough to use reaction rather than action, then one is violating a basic Sun Tzu principle of never underestimating one's opponent.  Why choose to start at a disadvantage?  If the fight is inevitable and unavoidable, strike first and don't stop striking.  Action is always faster than reaction.



I don't see anything that hasn't been said by many people here, and only one thing that you didn't say; that being that being the first to attack has possible legal risks where you have more burden in why you physically attacked first.  Those risks may be more or less easily overcome in the legal system depending on the exact laws in the jurisdiction where the fight occurs. 

Even so, for me, you still haven't shown why your system is better, or even equivalent to years of training.  I am still willing to be convinced however, probably partly because my art is Hapkido.


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## oftheherd1 (Jun 2, 2016)

lklawson said:


> The title is a little bit misleading, which they kinda admit later in the article where they point out that the time it takes to process the stimuli of an action is 10 times greater than "the reaction advantage" which they apparently noted.
> 
> The simplified version: Reaction movements are 21 milliseconds faster than action movements but it takes 200 milliseconds to "respond" to an action.
> 
> ...



I have some doubts that the two types of testing are going to give useful answers.  My biggest disbelief given the conclusions, is how the action time figures into the conclusion when computers were used.


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## Touch Of Death (Jun 2, 2016)

oftheherd1 said:


> I have some doubts that the two types of testing are going to give useful answers.  My biggest disbelief given the conclusions, is how the action time figures into the conclusion when computers were used.


If I hit you with a laptop, it increases my range, my about a foot, making me just a bit faster.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Jun 2, 2016)

Touch Of Death said:


> If I hit you with a laptop, it increases my range, my about a foot, making me just a bit faster.


He stated computers not laptops. If I have to hit someone with an actual computer, I have to lift it first, which gives them time to react


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## Touch Of Death (Jun 2, 2016)

kempodisciple said:


> He stated computers not laptops. If I have to hit someone with an actual computer, I have to lift it first, which gives them time to react


If I left a door partway open, and placed the computer, on the wedge of the door, above, I need only wait for the bad guy to come get me.


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## oftheherd1 (Jun 3, 2016)

Touch Of Death said:


> If I hit you with a laptop, it increases my range, my about a foot, making me just a bit faster.



Oh please Great Zen Master, tell us lowly and unworthy learner-wanna-bes how we can also increase speed by increasing distance.  The meaning of life can then be complete.


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## oftheherd1 (Jun 3, 2016)

Touch Of Death said:


> If I left a door partway open, and placed the computer, on the wedge of the door, above, I need only wait for the bad guy to come get me.



Wow!  Wow!  So by forcing him to initiate the action, your speed increases.  Brilliant use of quantum mechanics oh Great Zen Master.  *;-)  *


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## Touch Of Death (Jun 3, 2016)

oftheherd1 said:


> Oh please Great Zen Master, tell us lowly and unworthy learner-wanna-bes how we can also increase speed by increasing distance.  The meaning of life can then be complete.


It's a timing issue. I don't need to take the time to close the distance if the length of the laptop covers it for me.


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## Touch Of Death (Jun 3, 2016)

oftheherd1 said:


> Wow!  Wow!  So by forcing him to initiate the action, your speed increases.  Brilliant use of quantum mechanics oh Great Zen Master.  *;-)  *


Again, my timing has increased as my genius-ly evil plans come to fruition.


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## Touch Of Death (Jun 3, 2016)

Again, speed is a religious term. Much like chi; it is fastness-chi.


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## Touch Of Death (Jun 3, 2016)

Timing really is everything.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Jun 3, 2016)

Touch Of Death said:


> Timing really is everything.


Before timing, you have to be able to recognize that "opportunity".

recognize opportunity > good timing > correct angle > good balance > fast speed > strong power


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## Touch Of Death (Jun 3, 2016)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> Before timing, you have to be able to recognize that "opportunity".
> 
> recognize opportunity > good timing > correct angle > good balance > fast speed > strong power


Before time, huh? Timing is pretty much your ability to recognize those opportunities, choose a correct angle, use good balance, with or without speed, and with or without power. If it happened on a timeline, it was a function of timing.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Jun 3, 2016)

Touch Of Death said:


> Before time, huh? Timing is pretty much your ability to recognize those opportunities, choose a correct angle, use good balance, with or without speed, and with or without power. If it happened on a timeline, it was a function of timing.


- Recognize an opportunity is "knowledge" that's in your mind (you know how to do it).
- Respond with good timing is "skill" that's on your body (you have the ability to do it).

For example, when your opponent blocks your punch, your mind tell you that you have an opportunity to borrow his blocking force, change your straight punch into a hay-maker, and hit on the side of his head. Whether your body will be able to respond fast enough that's separate timing issue.

Old MA saying said, "If your don't spar/wrestle for 3 days, your arms and legs will no longer be yours." You mind may still be sharp enough to recognize a good opportunity when you see one. But your body may not be fast enough to respond to it (timing).


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## Touch Of Death (Jun 3, 2016)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> - Recognize an opportunity is "knowledge" that's in your mind (you know how to do it).
> - Respond with good timing is "skill" that's on your body (you have the ability to do it).
> 
> For example, when your opponent blocks your punch, your mind tell you that you have an opportunity to borrow his blocking force, change your straight punch into a hay-maker, and hit on the side of his head. Whether your body will be able to respond fast enough that's separate timing issue.
> ...


Yeah, its all timing. You might say attitude is everything, but you would be wrong, because, just when did you develop that attitude?


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## Touch Of Death (Jun 3, 2016)

Are we not all little Timex's that wanna keep on ticking? Or, as we train, don't we go from: Cheap knock off; to Casio; To Timex; to Rolex?


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## lifelongstudent1 (Jul 26, 2016)

Am sure a huge many covered it, what is more important than speed, is quality of technique.  The old saying "slow is smooth and smooth is fast" is very true in martial arts.  After you grasp the proper technique, timing is the next important hurdle.  A person can be as fast as they want, but a person who can time the proper technique (even slowly) will win.  The next important step, is to relax!  This comes with what we talked about timing.  Speed can only be gained by relaxation and timing.  Take a simple "back fist", if we take our time and understand how to perform it properly and the application.  Then we learn to relax, and only apply tension right before contact (timing), in truth we generate more power.  Then we work on after the "strike", to relax to retract the movement.  It takes time, relax, understand the technique, speed will come.


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