# WC clips.



## skinters (Feb 20, 2009)

i found these homemade clips,you might find of interest.both from a good chunner in the uk.one of the reasons i like this guys wingchun,is he comes through with some good common sense.i aslo find clips like this more helpfull,than ones that dont explain the reasoning behind the technques,in a down to earth kind of way,in which we can all relate to.most of you have maybe seen these,but was thinking of an idea of everyone posting clips like this,and maybe discuss them as we go.i know there is a sticky of clips on the forum but was hoping to try something a bit different. 






http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZWbWAP6hrs&feature=channel_page


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## paulus (Feb 20, 2009)

El Guapo doing Wing Chun!


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## skinters (Feb 20, 2009)

paulus said:


> El Guapo doing Wing Chun!



hahahaha you swear they twins.

what you think of the wingchun ?


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## geezer (Feb 20, 2009)

skinters said:


> ...i like this guys wingchun,is *he comes through with some good common sense*.i aslo find clips like this more helpfull,than ones that dont explain the reasoning behind the technques,in a down to earth kind of way,in which we can all relate to...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks for sharing this. You know if we WC/WT/VT people could look for all the common sense ideas we share rather than bicker over our differences, we'd all benefit. Please, keep those clips coming.


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## paulus (Feb 21, 2009)

skinters said:


> hahahaha you swear they twins.
> 
> what you think of the wingchun ?


 I like what he says about the ineffective chain punching, its an observation my sifu has made in class too. I noticed that he seemed to be leaning back in his juen ma drills and thats something we dont do  although Ive seen others doing it. Maybe its a style thing. Hes very precise though, which I like. His carpets not going to last long if he keeps training there!


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## skinters (Feb 21, 2009)

geezer said:


> Thanks for sharing this. You know if we WC/WT/VT people could look for all the common sense ideas we share rather than bicker over our differences, we'd all benefit. Please, keep those clips coming.




cheers m8.

thats what i like about clips like this, there is no hollywood style production advertising any kind of lineage or school.he freely offers any knowlegde he has,in a down to eath way.


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## skinters (Feb 21, 2009)

paulus said:


> I like what he says about the ineffective chain punching, its an observation my sifu has made in class too. I noticed that he seemed to be leaning back in his juen ma drills and thats something we dont do  although Ive seen others doing it. Maybe its a style thing. Hes very precise though, which I like. His carpets not going to last long if he keeps training there!



cheers paulus.

aye all that machine gun rubbish.i remember watching this guy doing those juen ma drills,and thought i would never match being that fluid,but his advice on making the drills less tick tock and more flowing,made a good impression on me .


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## mook jong man (Feb 21, 2009)

That was great stuff , apart from the leaning back when he pivots , which is just a lineage thing . But the rest of it I couldn't find any fault in it at all , I found myself in agreement with everything he said .

 His Wing Chun is very direct and to the point , economical of movement and theoretically sound .

 Thanks for digging those up Skinters , what we need is more skillful and knowledgeable guys like that putting stuff up on the web and less of the posers and nobheads polluting youtube with their fancy inefficient drivel.


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## skinters (Feb 21, 2009)

right this is another homemade offering,and want to note,that the title can maybe start one of those versus debates,which i hope to look beyond.

this is a spar session where the chunner executes some nice interceptions of kicks presumably aimed at the head.

you can pick up on the chunners overall technique if you like,but what i found of interest was a good show of economy of movement,and timing.the interception at 1:35,notable.


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## paulus (Feb 21, 2009)

He looks good. I was surprised at how low his hands were throughout that session. I think I would have felt a bit exposed in his shoes. He was very quick though and I also agree about the economy of movement.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Feb 21, 2009)

Clearly the Wing Chun guy was the Alpha male in that particular encounter.  He controlled the distance and space where he wanted to be and hit pretty much at will.  The kick boxer looked out of his realm and really was trying to rely on kicking with absolutely no hand techniques. 

Paulus you are correct in that the WC guy did have his hands low.  Still with the ineptitude of the kickboxer it did not matter.


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## skinters (Feb 21, 2009)

Brian R. VanCise said:


> Clearly the Wing Chun guy was the Alpha male in that particular encounter.  He controlled the distance and space where he wanted to be and hit pretty much at will.  The kick boxer looked out of his realm and really was trying to rely on kicking with absolutely no hand techniques.
> 
> Paulus you are correct in that the WC guy did have his hands low.  Still with the ineptitude of the kickboxer it did not matter.



thanks for watching brian.

you right about the kick boxer,although i have seen a lot worse.

the purpose of these clips,was to show if possible good form and technique from a wing chun perspective.ill be honest with you there is not a lot of it out there,and 90% is for want of a better word crap poor.

so although this particular clip shows a kickboxer,it could be a grizzly bear he was sparring with.i dont want it to be a case of well the kick boxer didnt give a good show .i was hoping to show some decent clips as i see it of some decent wingchun.


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## skinters (Feb 21, 2009)

you know if i spent as much time training as i do sat in front of this thing id be incredible haha.

right last one for a bit.i remember the first time i watched this,and didnt really care who it was but,what i liked about it was for me,a really good sparring session,and to be honest i was quite suprised of the intensity of it.

so take a look, forget who it is,be interesting to see what you think.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJfguxnlCqA&feature=PlayList&p=F4B2798571677577&playnext=1&index=42


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## graychuan (Feb 21, 2009)

Brian R. VanCise said:


> Clearly the Wing Chun guy was the Alpha male in that particular encounter...
> Paulus you are correct in that* the WC guy did have his hands low.* Still with the ineptitude of the kickboxer it did not matter.


 
I completely agree with all of you about the hands being low but may I offer one idea...that _the low hands were actually just a combative ploy_ to goad the KBXER to bridging distance. Make the other guy do all the work. As good and complete as the Chunner's skills looked I would not be surprised if it was exactly this. I admit I am reaching a bit but I only bring up the case because my Sifu trains our group in these type of ploys.


In the earlier clip at about 32-33 seconds in the Chunner stops a high round kick with a bong-sao :eye-popping:. Did anyone notice that?!?


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## David Weatherly (Feb 21, 2009)

graychuan said:


> I completely agree with all of you about the hands being low but may I offer one idea...that _the low hands were actually just a combative ploy_ to goad the KBXER to bridging distance. Make the other guy do all the work. As good and complete as the Chunner's skills looked I would not be surprised if it was exactly this. I admit I am reaching a bit but I only bring up the case because my Sifu trains our group in these type of ploys.
> 
> 
> 
> That's an interesting possibility here and may be the tactic he was emplyoing.  Either way, nice clip.  Thanks for posting it.


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## mook jong man (Feb 21, 2009)

I reckon he just knew he would jam every kick that guy threw at him , and just couldn't be bothered holding his hands up because he didn't have to.
Sort of like one of my instructor's who used to spar us with one of his hands behind his back versus our two hands and would still beat us.


But I agree with you Skinters , he could have been sparring someone a lot better at kickboxing but he still would have used the same defences and I think the result would have been much the same . The Wing Chun guy was sharp and had good reflexes and was just waiting for the slightest twitch of the shoulder before launching an attack. 

It is very hard to beat someone who is not only quick but attacks you down the centerline as soon as you move , because as we all know , there is a reason we attack on the centerline and that is because it is the quickest and the most direct path.


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## skinters (Feb 21, 2009)

graychuan said:


> I completely agree with all of you about the hands being low but may I offer one idea...that _the low hands were actually just a combative ploy_ to goad the KBXER to bridging distance. Make the other guy do all the work. As good and complete as the Chunner's skills looked I would not be surprised if it was exactly this. I admit I am reaching a bit but I only bring up the case because my Sifu trains our group in these type of ploys.
> 
> 
> In the earlier clip at about 32-33 seconds in the Chunner stops a high round kick with a bong-sao :eye-popping:. Did anyone notice that?!?



yeah noticed the bongsao.although we all now through practice and sparring that the techniques work,its good to watch things like this and SEE them working. 

as for using the ploy of dropping the hands,one of the things i kinda put to memory was the technique of dropping the lead hand say to expose a clear shot to the face,therefore DRAW a response.

to use this kind of fight stratergy demands a lot of skill and confidence imo.


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## AceHBK (Feb 22, 2009)

skinters said:


> i found these homemade clips,you might find of interest.both from a good chunner in the uk.one of the reasons i like this guys wingchun,is he comes through with some good common sense.i aslo find clips like this more helpfull,than ones that dont explain the reasoning behind the technques,in a down to earth kind of way,in which we can all relate to.most of you have maybe seen these,but was thinking of an idea of everyone posting clips like this,and maybe discuss them as we go.i know there is a sticky of clips on the forum but was hoping to try something a bit different.



I had no idea about the subtle technique that he showed with the chain punch.  It now makes me look at how I do chain punches to make sure that I am doing it correctly.

Has everyone else been taught to do their chain punches this way?  Thank goodness I am a beginner so it won't be hard to correct this.


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## mook jong man (Feb 22, 2009)

AceHBK said:


> I had no idea about the subtle technique that he showed with the chain punch. It now makes me look at how I do chain punches to make sure that I am doing it correctly.
> 
> Has everyone else been taught to do their chain punches this way? Thank goodness I am a beginner so it won't be hard to correct this.


 
We were always taught to drive them out through the elbow , its just a natural by product of trying to use your elbow force to penetrate right through the pad or wall bag . Always extend your punches right out , some people might say it damages your joints , but thats bull .

 I've been punching like this for 20 years and my elbow joints are fine . One common mistake I see with beginners is that they punch in a circular fashion which leads to a hammering type of action where they scrape their knuckles down the pad instead of using their elbows to drive through the pad. 

If you want to develop a good action stand in front of the mirror and punch out slowly with one hand at solar plexus height , when it reaches full extension drop it down about a inch and a half to 2 inches .

 Then retract the hand and let the other hand pass over the top of the retracting hand . Let the edge of the hand going forward lightly scrape along the top of the thumb so it makes a noise . Its like you are trying to cut the top of your own thumb off where it joins the hand , with the bottom edge of your top hand .

 Eventually with practice you will be able to go faster and faster and your hands wont make contact anymore and your punches will be nice and linear and piston like. Couple of points to remember is make sure your wrists are on the centerline , and only make the fist at the end then open the hand right up again and relax , do this at medium speed with perfect form .
 Later on when you get pretty fast the hand only opens about halfway , also make sure each punch lands on the same spot, I use my ring fingers as a guide .


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## mook jong man (Feb 22, 2009)

skinters said:


> you know if i spent as much time training as i do sat in front of this thing id be incredible haha.
> 
> right last one for a bit.i remember the first time i watched this,and didnt really care who it was but,what i liked about it was for me,a really good sparring session,and to be honest i was quite suprised of the intensity of it.
> 
> ...


 
It was a good sparring session and intense , but to be perfectly honest there seemed to be a bit of brute strength being used as well . Some thing else I noticed is the lack of being sunk down in the stance , I used to notice this in our school as well with the big guys . 

If they were big and been there for a long time they would get very lazy in their stance and start standing straight up all the time and sometimes in chi sau they would even be leaning , and these were instructors I'm talking about too.

 I think the reason is laziness and because they are big they can get away with it , being a small bloke I was always sunk down out of necessity , otherwise I would get thrown around and because I was an instructor I was conscious of setting a good example for lower grades who are always watching you .


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## skinters (Feb 23, 2009)

mook jong man said:


> It was a good sparring session and intense , but to be perfectly honest there seemed to be a bit of brute strength being used as well . Some thing else I noticed is the lack of being sunk down in the stance , I used to notice this in our school as well with the big guys .
> 
> If they were big and been there for a long time they would get very lazy in their stance and start standing straight up all the time and sometimes in chi sau they would even be leaning , and these were instructors I'm talking about too.
> 
> I think the reason is laziness and because they are big they can get away with it , being a small bloke I was always sunk down out of necessity , otherwise I would get thrown around and because I was an instructor I was conscious of setting a good example for lower grades who are always watching you .



another reason i have looked at ,when you look at stepping out of stance,is just the plain fact we spent so much of our time upright,and to me even now ,sinking into stance dont feel naturel,and i think it is one of the hardest things to do in wingchun,and be consistent.


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## mook jong man (Feb 23, 2009)

skinters said:


> another reason i have looked at ,when you look at stepping out of stance,is just the plain fact we spent so much of our time upright,and to me even now ,sinking into stance dont feel naturel,and i think it is one of the hardest things to do in wingchun,and be consistent.


 
It does get easier after a lot of years and actually feels quite comfortable , sometimes you catch yourself standing like it when you don't even mean to because it becomes such a habit .

 I have been somewhere with non-chunners and they will remark to me , why are you standing like that for ? , you look like your having a piss lol. And I will find that unconsciously I have sunk down into bit of a stance , used to happen a lot when I was drunk .

I have learnt to break the habit of going into stance involuntarily , but I can't break the habit of my feet always being shoulder width apart where ever I am .


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## Yoshiyahu (Feb 23, 2009)

A good way to increase your stance work...

Do SLT in your stance really sink it. Every time you come out start SLT over

Do the Mook Jong Form in low YGKYM stance an transition from each move using counter step and side step and front step.


Hold you stance when doing one thousand punches.


Practice each day sitting in the stance for ten minutes(eventually work up to that.)

Do Chi Sau with a partner in stance.

Practice sparring in your stance and keep your legs close together.

Practice your steps while concentrating on your stance.


Have a buddy tell you everytime you come out your stance. I hate to hear that...so it made correct my stance on my own. 

Now I can feel myself leaving my stance.

Also strecth before and after you start sinking in the stance. I promise if your strecth like a karate and Tae Kwan Do kicker you will have no problem holding that stance...man my legs feel tight now...i think i need to strecth.





skinters said:


> another reason i have looked at ,when you look at stepping out of stance,is just the plain fact we spent so much of our time upright,and to me even now ,sinking into stance dont feel naturel,and i think it is one of the hardest things to do in wingchun,and be consistent.


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## skinters (Feb 24, 2009)

mook jong man said:


> I have been somewhere with non-chunners and they will remark to me , why are you standing like that for ? , you look like your having a piss lol. And I will find that unconsciously I have sunk down into bit of a stance , used to happen a lot when I was drunk .
> 
> .



laff my head off

i used to walk around the house sunk down into the stance,never done it while out and about tho haha.

i used to watch others stance in class,they would start out sunk into stance,but soon as they were pressed or coming forwards,they would raise up out of the stance,and you could really see the difference,where balance and footwork were concerned.

i think there are a lot of people who after years of training still dont utilise the stance enough ,and i have said plenty of times,that so much time and emphasis is spent on hand techniques,the legs are fogotten,and it is only after frustration sets in wondering why we are unbalanced and being controlled so much,do we then take a harder look at the stance,and put the required work in .


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## mook jong man (Feb 24, 2009)

Yeah a lot of people have a problem with keeping the stance while they move , but like everything else it takes practice .  A good one for that is to practice moving in your stance in all different directions forward , back , and moving to the left and right . 

Make sure to stay sunk down , do it in front of a mirror if you got one , concentrate on what your legs and feet are doing , the thighs should feel relaxed and springy , don't lift your feet up too high , just enough that the feet glide over the surface of the floor .

 In our lineage we also do a slight gripping action with the toes , this increases the surface area of the foot which strengthens the stance . Once you can do all this stuff without thinking , then forget about what your legs and feet are doing and just concentrate on moving from your waist .


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## skinters (Feb 24, 2009)

i just had to include this clip of augustine fong with one of his sudents.its a good slowed down demonstration of using triangle,centre etc.

what also comes through is the obvious enjoyment of having a sifu,who is at total ease with himself and confidence in his ability,and it shows.


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## paulus (Feb 24, 2009)

skinters said:


> i just had to include this clip of augustine fong with one of his sudents.its a good slowed down demonstration of using triangle,centre etc.
> 
> what also comes through is the obvious enjoyment of having a sifu,who is at total ease with himself and confidence in his ability,and it shows.


I like Augustine Fong's skill, he seems to have really soft hands too. Love the "get better" advice!

I was sure that there were some more Fong videos here but I can't remember where exactly.

Found them.


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## mook jong man (Feb 24, 2009)

skinters said:


> i just had to include this clip of augustine fong with one of his sudents.its a good slowed down demonstration of using triangle,centre etc.
> 
> what also comes through is the obvious enjoyment of having a sifu,who is at total ease with himself and confidence in his ability,and it shows.


 
What lineage is Sifu Fong from , I noticed they use the hands a lot to control where as in our lineage we use the wrists . What are you other guys taught to use , hands or wrists ?


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## paulus (Feb 24, 2009)

mook jong man said:


> What lineage is Sifu Fong from , I noticed they use the hands a lot to control where as in our lineage we use the wrists . What are you other guys taught to use , hands or wrists ?


I noticed that there is a lot of grabbing too. We use wrists and sometimes forearms if the opponent has fast hands.

Fong's skill comes via Ho Kam Ming, apparently.


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## skinters (Feb 24, 2009)

mook jong man said:


> What lineage is Sifu Fong from , I noticed they use the hands a lot to control where as in our lineage we use the wrists . What are you other guys taught to use , hands or wrists ?



like paulus said,and i got this

Augustine Fong was born on the island of Macao, off the coast of southern China. Since his early childhood, he has had a special interest in the Chinese martial arts. In 1960, he was fortunate enough to begin training in a traditional gung fu style. His instructor was the honorable Wing Chun master, Ho Kam Ming. Master Ho, a top student of the late grand master Yip Man, had, at that time, introduced the style to the Macao area. Augustine Fong, without a second thought, became one of his first students.

as for wrists or hands for control,we start with the wrists.i asked my sifu about this as i found i was using my hands aswell.he told me not to worry about it.i find myself using my hands more,as i found it to be more tactile using the fingers to detect movement,and felt more protected .dunno mate to be honest i didnt know there was difference depending on your lineage.


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## Yoshiyahu (Feb 24, 2009)

I heard that Augustine Fong was a pretty good fighter. Ho Kam was said to note that Fong was his top fighter in tournments....





skinters said:


> like paulus said,and i got this
> 
> Augustine Fong was born on the island of Macao, off the coast of southern China. Since his early childhood, he has had a special interest in the Chinese martial arts. In 1960, he was fortunate enough to begin training in a traditional gung fu style. His instructor was the honorable Wing Chun master, Ho Kam Ming. Master Ho, a top student of the late grand master Yip Man, had, at that time, introduced the style to the Macao area. Augustine Fong, without a second thought, became one of his first students.
> 
> as for wrists or hands for control,we start with the wrists.i asked my sifu about this as i found i was using my hands aswell.he told me not to worry about it.i find myself using my hands more,as i found it to be more tactile using the fingers to detect movement,and felt more protected .dunno mate to be honest i didnt know there was difference depending on your lineage.


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## Si-Je (Feb 25, 2009)

mook jong man said:


> What lineage is Sifu Fong from , I noticed they use the hands a lot to control where as in our lineage we use the wrists . What are you other guys taught to use , hands or wrists ?


 
I noticed that too. Although a cute cute video. Ah, the frustration of doing Chi Sau with the Sifu. Your just not going to get in there, relax. lol! I do the same thing, try to think too much. 
Sifu's really good, good teacher, looks like they have alot of fun.

Sifu usually ends up with his hands "cuping" mine in Chi Sau like a "fuk sau" when we're rolling and flowing. I thought he just used those huge hands to his advantage, like it was just a big guy thing.  I guess not.  Plus, it makes it really hard to wrist roll around his arms and hands.  He just catches my hand/wrist with his hands.


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## skinters (Feb 25, 2009)

Si-Je said:


> Sifu usually ends up with his hands "cuping" mine in Chi Sau like a "fuk sau" when we're rolling and flowing. I thought he just used those huge hands to his advantage, like it was just a big guy thing.  I guess not.  Plus, it makes it really hard to wrist roll around his arms and hands.  He just catches my hand/wrist with his hands.



with me it was a naturel progression to use both wrists and hands.

dont think you will find a better example than this .i wish i could hear what was being said.


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## Yoshiyahu (Feb 25, 2009)

Please explain using both hands and wrist in more detail...




skinters said:


> with me it was a naturel progression to use both wrists and hands.
> 
> dont think you will find a better example than this .i wish i could hear what was being said.


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## mook jong man (Feb 25, 2009)

We only use the wrists like this , disregard these guys crappy stances and leaning and just watch their hands .

 Boy things sure have slipped since I was there lol.


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## Si-Je (Feb 25, 2009)

Very cool! I don't think hand to hand contact is going to give you the same pressure and sensitivity as wrist to wrist.  Sure, sometimes your hand ends up on their hand during chi sau, but to start off that way is really different to me.
Hubbie cups my hands, he's also got my whole darn forearm! (his hands are really big, and I'm teeny) I can NEVER wrist roll around him! But when I chi sau with a smaller guy it's too easy, it's weird.  Hubbies hand is as long as my forearm from fingertip to wrist and palm to elbow.  He's larrrrgggee.  lol!
But, he doesn't grab my hands, that would make it really easy to wrist roll out of. Just a flick of the wrist.


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## mook jong man (Feb 25, 2009)

Here are some more clips from the old school , this bloke looks like he's been grazing in a good paddock since I last met him .

 But anyway the information is good and I reckon you lot might be able to get some benefit from it .
 They are pretty long at about 7 mins but I think you will find it worth it .


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## mook jong man (Feb 25, 2009)

Hang on kids I found another one .


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## seasoned (Feb 26, 2009)

I dont study WC but I found the videos to be very informative. Thanks.


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## skinters (Feb 26, 2009)

> I don't think hand to hand contact is going to give you the same pressure and sensitivity as wrist to wrist.  Sure, sometimes your hand ends up on their hand during chi sau, but to start off that way is really different to me.



with me it is just the fooksau,i use the hand on,and obviously you cannot use it on the tan side,unless your in double fooksau .i use the fooksau,with my fingers acting like feelers,i dont use the whole hand,maybe three fingers at most.on other times i find my palm is resting on the wrist.

also i never hold,well not in the sense your grasping the hand,it is very light and use my fingers on the fooksau to jerk the opponent forwards,if i sense a moment of tensing.

i do think using the hands this way is more complicated,and if not carefull can lead to being hit more,i prefer it in the way the chisau seems to flow better,well for me at least.

bloody hell thinking about is hard enough without writing about it haha.


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## skinters (Feb 26, 2009)

mook jong man said:


> Here are some more clips from the old school , this bloke looks like he's been grazing in a good paddock since I last met him .
> 
> But anyway the information is good and I reckon you lot might be able to get some benefit from it .
> They are pretty long at about 7 mins but I think you will find it worth it .



yeah tidy mate .


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