# Lone Kimono



## MJS (Jan 26, 2006)

Front left hand lapel grab

1: Standing naturally, step back to 6 o'clock with your left leg when your opponent grabs your lapel with his left.  Simultaneously pin his hand to your chest with your left hand and deliver a right upward strike to his elbow just above the joint causing the elbow to break, as you pivot into a right neutral bow.

2: Circle your right arm over and down in a counter-clockwise motion, with an inward-downward strike against your opponents forearm, making sure his arm is driven down and diagonally to the left.

3: After cocking your right hand with your right palm up, deliver a right outward handswordto the right side of your opponents neck.  

Thought that we could discuss this technique and any differences that you may have.

Mike


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## Blindside (Jan 26, 2006)

For you Tracy folks out there, this is "The Lever."

Lamont


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## Ray (Jan 26, 2006)

Blindside said:
			
		

> For you Tracy folks out there, this is "The Lever."


I thought it was Kimono Grab;  I thought Lever was the one that one that was almost the same but caused the wrist-lock by the defender's right forearm rotating the attacker's forearm counter-clockwise while executing a right rising motion to the outside of attacker's grabbing arm.

But it's been a while since I've been through the Tracy material I learned.


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## Maltair (Jan 26, 2006)

1.5:  Left foot steps to 4:30 into a rear cross step as right hammer fist rakes through opp floating rib 

2: unwind as you...What you said

I remember working this variation with someone, it really hinges on the fact that the opp bends their arm after the elbow stike. One time he just kept his arm straigt and when I moved into the twist stance, he didn't let my lapels move. I was so off balanced I about fell down!


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## Blindside (Jan 26, 2006)

Ray said:
			
		

> I thought it was Kimono Grab; I thought Lever was the one that one that was almost the same but caused the wrist-lock by the defender's right forearm rotating the attacker's forearm counter-clockwise while executing a right rising motion to the outside of attacker's grabbing arm.


 
Kimono Grab is the equivelent of Twin Kimono (double lapel grab), Lever is Lone Kimono (single lapel grab).  

And now back to the discussion.... 

Lamont


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## Blindside (Jan 26, 2006)

Hmmph, apparently I learned Lone Kimono differently, so that it was more like Lever than Kimono Grab, in reading three or four AK sites description of LK, it does sound more like Kimono Grab.  

Lamont


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## Mortenrasmussen (Jan 26, 2006)

Maltair:

Well, you do that in Twin Kimono, but there is a) no reason to do it in Lone Kimono, and b) it is dangerous to do so, as you might turn your opponent, and in doing so bringing the right hand into play.

In Lone Kimono you are escentialy outside your oppopents arms, and therefore the main concern is to control the opponents whith-zone... The armbreak should cancel him, and then the inward hammerfist should do this even more..

In Twin Kimono he has both arms in play, and even though you might hurt his left hand, you won't hurt the both, and as you are going to move on the outside of his arms you step offline to get away from it, using the settling from that move to deliver a backfist strike...

In Lone Kimono you are ignoring the "crane principle" (the principle of not crossing the opponents body without taking something with you), but in short you do this to stay safe...


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## Ray (Jan 26, 2006)

Blindside said:
			
		

> Hmmph, apparently I learned Lone Kimono differently, so that it was more like Lever than Kimono Grab, in reading three or four AK sites description of LK, it does sound more like Kimono Grab.


Hey Lamont, are you with Willie "Catman" Pineda's group?


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## Sam (Jan 26, 2006)

I learned lever A and B.

above described was lever A, except for it was a chop to the throat with the hand down. In B, if the attacker's head went down while they were trying to protect the broken arm while screaming in pain, thus preventing you from chopping them in the throat, you held their head with your left hand in the ear area and did a right elbow smash to their temple.


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## Flying Crane (Jan 26, 2006)

Sam said:
			
		

> I learned lever A and B.
> 
> above described was lever A. In be, if the attacker's head went down, thus preventing you from chopping them in the throat, you held their head with your left hand and did a right elbow smash to their temple.


 
Variation C is delivering a right elbow smash thru the head, followed by a right elbow jab back into the head.  Thought you might like to add it to your notes.  

Guess this is off topic, tho.  sorry all.


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## MJS (Jan 26, 2006)

Maltair said:
			
		

> 1.5: Left foot steps to 4:30 into a rear cross step as right hammer fist rakes through opp floating rib


 
I've done the same, instead using a backfist strike to the ribs.  The arm/hand is there anyway, so might as well do an extra strike.   The only thing I did not do was the cross step.

Mike


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## Sam (Jan 26, 2006)

So was B different than what I said, or C was just an addition to B?

I dont think this is OT


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## MJS (Jan 26, 2006)

Flying Crane said:
			
		

> Guess this is off topic, tho. sorry all.


 
By all means, please feel free to discuss the Tracy variation.   I think that by including both, it will lead to some interesting and positive feedback.

Mike


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## Flying Crane (Jan 26, 2006)

Blindside said:
			
		

> Kimono Grab is the equivelent of Twin Kimono (double lapel grab), Lever is Lone Kimono (single lapel grab).
> 
> And now back to the discussion....
> 
> Lamont


 
Based on the description given, Lone Kimono sounds like Tracy's Kimono Grab but done against a single grab instead of a double grab.  

Lever has some defininte differences from the description of Lone Kimono.  Kinda similar, but not the same.

Assuming the grab is done with the opponent's left hand...

In the opening move, pin opponent's hand to your chest with the left hand and step back to 6:00 with the left foot.  The distance created will cause his left elbow to straighten.

Place the inside of your right forearm against the outside of his elbow.  Rotate your arm clockwise, which turns the opponent's elbow so the back of the joint is facing down.  Use your right arm to "lever" upwards, hyperextending or breaking his left elbow.

Roll your right arm counter clockwise over the top of his left arm and chop/rake down along his arm to your left side, removing his grasp. 

Variation A: Finish with a right knifehand to his throat.

Variation B: If he does not let go then you drive your right forearm down into his elbow joint to collapse his arm and bring his face close to you.  Grab the side of his head with your left hand and finish with a right elbow-sandwich to the side other side of his head.

Variation C: Instead of the elbow sandwich of B, drive a right elbow smash thru the side of his head, following with a right elbow jab back into the other side of his head.

that's as complete as I can make it.  Personally, I don't care for all the variations.  I can figure out how to finish the guy on my own, once we reach that point.

Sorry for getting off topic but for reference for the Tracy people in this discussion, Lever is not really equivalent to Lone Kimono.  Rather, think of Kimono Grab, but against a single grab instead of a double grab.


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## Flying Crane (Jan 26, 2006)

Sam said:
			
		

> So was B different than what I said, or C was just an addition to B?
> 
> I dont think this is OT


 
You got B right, C is the next variation.


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## Flying Crane (Jan 26, 2006)

Sam said:
			
		

> I dont think this is OT


 
You are right, this isn't off topic.  I was thinking it was because we were starting to discuss Lever instead of Lone Kimono, but on second thought, it is just clarifying for those of us Tracy people.


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## MJS (Jan 26, 2006)

Perhaps someone from the Tracy camp would be so kind as to give a detailed breakdown of the techniques in question, so as to provide a better comparison to Lone Kimono. 

Mike


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## Flying Crane (Jan 26, 2006)

MJS said:
			
		

> Perhaps someone from the Tracy camp would be so kind as to give a detailed breakdown of the techniques in question, so as to provide a better comparison to Lone Kimono.
> 
> Mike


 
Did you see my post, #14.  Is this what you needed, or was another technique in question?


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## Flying Crane (Jan 26, 2006)

In case I didn't make it clear, my description in Post #14 was for Lever.

Kimono Grab is the same as EPAK Lone Kimono, but Kimono Grab is against a double grab instead of a single grab.  Based on the description in the Opening Post, it appears to be essentially the same up to the Knifehand to the Throat.

We actually continue with a little more, however.

Shuffle forward into the opponent and grab the side of his head with the left hand.  Deliver a right elbow-sandwich to the other side of his head.

Pivot to face 6:00 and drop into a reverse soft bow stance.  Follow with a right hammerfist back and up, into the opponent's groin.  

Finish with a right back kick into his knee and step out to ready.

Gets to be a bit of overkill, but at some point it all becomes optional if necessary.


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## Ray (Jan 26, 2006)

Aha...Kimono Grab in Tracy's orange must be for a one-hand grab (left hand) to lapel, right?  The variation later (5th black according to Tracy's web site) must be for a two-handed grab, right?  The EPAK two hand version is called Twin Kimono.

Your descriptions are about the same as I learned in EPAK and Tracy's (one-hand grab).  I've seen some people make a real attempt to turn the attacker's wrist clockwise or counter-clockwise in an effort to get a specific response.  I've also seen slight differences in the right upward strike to the attacker's elbow (a rising block action, verses an upward forearm).  And the last differences I've witnessed are the angle and intent of the right inward (or inward/downward) block to attacker's arm.

Once, while practicing it, my instructor showed me that within the movements taught we could actually be doing:  1) A left inward hooking heel palm to the right side of attacker's face which continues movement to become a pin.  2) Simultaneous with the pin, the right arm can shoot a vertical punch to the face while still hyperextending the attacker's elbow.  3).  From the vertical punch on the way around the attacker's arm, the right fist can rake down the attacker's chest {or be a hammer fist}.


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## Flying Crane (Jan 26, 2006)

Ray said:
			
		

> Aha...Kimono Grab in Tracy's orange must be for a one-hand grab (left hand) to lapel, right? The variation later (5th black according to Tracy's web site) must be for a two-handed grab, right? The EPAK two hand version is called Twin Kimono.


 
Actually, the Orange Belt Kimono Grab is against a two-handed lapel grab.  I don't know what the 5th Black Belt variation is, but the Orange Belt technique is definitely Two-Handed.  However, like EPAK's Lone Kimono i believe it would work perfectly well against a one-handed grab.


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## Ray (Jan 26, 2006)

Flying Crane said:
			
		

> Actually, the Orange Belt Kimono Grab is against a two-handed lapel grab. I don't know what the 5th Black Belt variation is, but the Orange Belt technique is definitely Two-Handed. However, like EPAK's Lone Kimono i believe it would work perfectly well against a one-handed grab.


Okay, I'll buy that.  The EPAK equivalent is called Twin Kimono (two handed grab).  It's very much like Lone Kimono (one handed grab).

Gee, I kinda muddied up the water didn't I since the thread is about "lone kimono."  I think Lever (with a wrist lock) is a cool variation to the same type of attack.


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## Touch Of Death (Jan 26, 2006)

Flying Crane said:
			
		

> In case I didn't make it clear, my description in Post #14 was for Lever.
> 
> Kimono Grab is the same as EPAK Lone Kimono, but Kimono Grab is against a double grab instead of a single grab. Based on the description in the Opening Post, it appears to be essentially the same up to the Knifehand to the Throat.
> 
> ...


If you simply used your chopping hand to do the shoulder grab you get the elbow sandwich in much quicker.
Sean


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## MJS (Jan 26, 2006)

Flying Crane said:
			
		

> Did you see my post, #14. Is this what you needed, or was another technique in question?


 
Ahh..missed that post.  Thats what I was looking for.

Thanks!!:ultracool 

Mike


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## Flying Crane (Jan 26, 2006)

Touch Of Death said:
			
		

> If you simply used your chopping hand to do the shoulder grab you get the elbow sandwich in much quicker.
> Sean


 
So you are saying grab with the right hand (the hand that delivered the knifehand) and deliver the elbow strike with the left?

Sure, I think that could work.  I suppose it would come down to what feels best for the individual.

Really, by the time you have delivered the knifehand the show should be over.  Unless you just screwed up and missed everything along the way it should never reach this point anyway.


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## jdinca (Jan 26, 2006)

Sorry, don't do Lone Kimono but we do a variation of Kimono Grab (first technique in the system). Where in the curriculum is this technique?


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## Touch Of Death (Jan 26, 2006)

Flying Crane said:
			
		

> So you are saying grab with the right hand (the hand that delivered the knifehand) and deliver the elbow strike with the left?
> 
> Sure, I think that could work. I suppose it would come down to what feels best for the individual.
> 
> Really, by the time you have delivered the knifehand the show should be over. Unless you just screwed up and missed everything along the way it should never reach this point anyway.


No do everything with the right. Left hand provides heel palm for sandwich. And technichaly you could be done playing at the arm break.
Sean


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## Flying Crane (Jan 26, 2006)

Touch Of Death said:
			
		

> No do everything with the right. Left hand provides heel palm for sandwich. And technichaly you could be done playing at the arm break.
> Sean


 
So deliver the knifehand with the right, grab with the left and fire the elbow sandwich with the right.  That is how we do it.  Are you just saying eliminate the shuffle?  Sure, if you are close enough, but if not you need to bridge the gap.  

Am I following your thought here?


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## Touch Of Death (Jan 26, 2006)

Flying Crane said:
			
		

> So deliver the knifehand with the right, grab with the left and fire the elbow sandwich with the right. That is how we do it. Are you just saying eliminate the shuffle? Sure, if you are close enough, but if not you need to bridge the gap.
> 
> Am I following your thought here?


If you need to chase chase. But grabbing with the right after the chop pulls him down and toward the inward elbow.
Sean


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## Flying Crane (Jan 26, 2006)

Touch Of Death said:
			
		

> If you need to chase chase. But grabbing with the right after the chop pulls him down and toward the inward elbow.
> Sean


 
OK, so you are saying chop, immediately grab and pull as you place the left hand on the side of the head, then release the right to deliver the elbow.  is this your thought?


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## Touch Of Death (Jan 26, 2006)

Flying Crane said:
			
		

> OK, so you are saying chop, immediately grab and pull as you place the left hand on the side of the head, then release the right to deliver the elbow. is this your thought?


We have a Bingo!


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## Flying Crane (Jan 26, 2006)

Touch Of Death said:
			
		

> We have a Bingo!


 
Not a bad idea.  About a year ago I undertook an extensive housecleaning of the Tracy kenpo that I practice.  I eliminated a lot of stuff that I felt wasn't worth keeping and made changes to things that I felt could be better.  I am still looking for places to make improvements, so I appreciate the suggestion.  I shall have to play with this a bit and see what I think.  thank you.


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## MJS (Jan 27, 2006)

Interesting idea with the grab.  I've always just done the shuffle, followed by the elbow.


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## Seabrook (Jan 27, 2006)

Blindside said:
			
		

> Kimono Grab is the equivelent of Twin Kimono (double lapel grab),
> And now back to the discussion....
> 
> Lamont


 
Similar in the nature of the attack, but definitely different in execution.


Jamie Seabrook


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## Touch Of Death (Jan 27, 2006)

Flying Crane said:
			
		

> Not a bad idea. About a year ago I undertook an extensive housecleaning of the Tracy kenpo that I practice. I eliminated a lot of stuff that I felt wasn't worth keeping and made changes to things that I felt could be better. I am still looking for places to make improvements, so I appreciate the suggestion. I shall have to play with this a bit and see what I think. thank you.


At the re-reading of your understanding your left hand simply hooks with an heel palm strike which frees it up to strike something or someone else on that beat just before the elbow strike instead of simply placing it on the side of the head and waiting. 
Sean


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## Touch Of Death (Jan 27, 2006)

MJS said:
			
		

> Interesting idea with the grab. I've always just done the shuffle, followed by the elbow.


It would of course depend on the reaction and posioning at the time of the chop. The cross shoulder grab inward or upwrd elbow strike is probably really only going to happen as an opening act. This probably belongs in the sucker punch section but it could perhaps start as brushing dust off a shoulder.:supcool: 
Sean


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## MJS (Jan 30, 2006)

Thought we could discuss Twin Kimono as well, seeing that they're related techniques.

Twin Kimono-2 hand front lapel grab-push out

1:  With feet together, step back to 6 o'clock with left foot into a right neutral bow as your left arm pins your opponents arms, while simultaneously delivering a right upward forearm strike against opponents elbow joints.

2: Immediately shift your left foot counter clockwise to 4 o'clock as you deliver a right back knuckle strike to opponents solar plexus.

3: Follow up with a right inward strike to both arms of opponent, striking them diagonally and down to the left.

4: Deliever a right outward handsword to opponents throat.


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## Flying Crane (Jan 30, 2006)

MJS said:
			
		

> Thought we could discuss Twin Kimono as well, seeing that they're related techniques.
> 
> Twin Kimono-2 hand front lapel grab-push out
> 
> ...


 
For the Tracy people out there, this sounds very close to Swinging Gate, from Blue Belt curriculum.  Actually, I can't think of any differences.


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## JamesB (Jan 30, 2006)

MJS said:
			
		

> Thought we could discuss Twin Kimono as well, seeing that they're related techniques.
> 
> Twin Kimono-2 hand front lapel grab-push out:


 
interesting that the 'attack' description is a 'push out' thereby allowing the defender to perform the technique. Is this a totally realistic attack though, maybe after the initial shove, would the attacker attempt to regain control by pulling you back in? how would you prevent the attacker from doing this and maintain control at the same time?



			
				MJS said:
			
		

> 1: With feet together, step back to 6 o'clock with left foot into a right neutral bow as your left arm pins your opponents arms, while simultaneously delivering a right upward forearm strike against opponents elbow joints.


 
It would be interesting to hear from different people here how this transition to neutral-bow is achieved (from standing) or even if this is an important detail.



			
				MJS said:
			
		

> 2: Immediately shift your left foot counter clockwise to 4 o'clock as you deliver a right back knuckle strike to opponents solar plexus.
> 
> 3: Follow up with a right inward strike to both arms of opponent, striking them diagonally and down to the left.
> 
> 4: Deliever a right outward handsword to opponents throat.


 
I would say the technique as described is functional, assuming that the defender has actually managed to pull off the first step#1 and gain control. I think the most important aspect of this technique is the aspects not given great detail here, especially:

1. the nature of the attack, i.e. exactly what is the attacker doing, and why are they doing it - what is their goal after grabbing and 'pushing out'?

In fact I believe the attack would be more realistic if it was written 'push out', then grab and anchor in. I could be wrong of course not totally on-top of this technique.

2. Imagine that the attacker is a someone twice as big and twice as strong. How would the defender step back when someone has aggressively grabbed hold of them? Do we assume that they allow us to always step back? eeeek. 

3. what happens when can't step back, what is our response now?

james


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## MJS (Jan 30, 2006)

JamesB said:
			
		

> interesting that the 'attack' description is a 'push out' thereby allowing the defender to perform the technique. Is this a totally realistic attack though, maybe after the initial shove, would the attacker attempt to regain control by pulling you back in? how would you prevent the attacker from doing this and maintain control at the same time?


 
If the attacker changes what he is doing, we need to do the same.  Going to another technique would solve this problem.





> It would be interesting to hear from different people here how this transition to neutral-bow is achieved (from standing) or even if this is an important detail.


 
Perhaps I'm reading this wrong, but its no different than a step in any other tech.





> I would say the technique as described is functional, assuming that the defender has actually managed to pull off the first step#1 and gain control. I think the most important aspect of this technique is the aspects not given great detail here, especially:
> 
> 1. the nature of the attack, i.e. exactly what is the attacker doing, and why are they doing it - what is their goal after grabbing and 'pushing out'?


 
Possibly to pull the person back in.  I would think that most people would think the defender is going to want to get away, not keep the attackers hands pinned to them.




> 2. Imagine that the attacker is a someone twice as big and twice as strong. How would the defender step back when someone has aggressively grabbed hold of them? Do we assume that they allow us to always step back? eeeek.


 
I've always taught people to never assume that we're going to always, with ease, be able to pull off certian moves.  A distraction, prior to the initial move may be necessary.  Basically, momentarily give the attacker something else to think about.



> 3. what happens when can't step back, what is our response now?


 
See above.  We go to another technique.

Mike


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## JamesB (Jan 30, 2006)

MJS said:
			
		

> If the attacker changes what he is doing, we need to do the same. Going to another technique would solve this problem.
> Mike


 
ok I think I get it... Twin Kimono is designed for a "straight-arm" attack which allows for the upward strike under the arms. So with the attacker pulling back in after the initial shove (with arms+elbows anchored) what would be the preferred technique in this case? I guess mace of aggression/raking mace?

thanks,
James


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## MJS (Jan 30, 2006)

JamesB said:
			
		

> ok I think I get it... Twin Kimono is designed for a "straight-arm" attack which allows for the upward strike under the arms. So with the attacker pulling back in after the initial shove (with arms+elbows anchored) what would be the preferred technique in this case? I guess mace of aggression/raking mace?
> 
> thanks,
> James


 
Destructive Twins is also another possibility. 

Mike


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## jdinca (Jan 31, 2006)

Our version of kimono grab changes after #1.

Right arm executes an inward block across the attacker's arm with a downward motion at the end of the block with the right fist ending at the left side of your waist. This pulls the attacker forward and down to the side.

Right hand chops diagonal up to the throat and rechambers to the shoulder.


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## Ross (Apr 11, 2006)

Interesting thread. I think one thing that is being missed though is the reason for the grab. Why is the attacker grabbing both your lapels in the first place? Are they trying to head but you, scare you, set you up for a friend to circle around behind you? 

These are rhetorical questions by the way!

One thing that they are trying to do is control your movement, distance and reaction (this is with just the grab).

I would recommend that when practising this you both start virtually toe to toe then grab. In the real world your attacker is not going to walk towards you like a mummy before grabbing you.


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## kenpoworks (Apr 12, 2006)

Hi Ross
I agree about the attack and even had a laugh about the mummy thing, kenpo "dummying" is a long time bug bear of mine, may I suggest  if the opponents are "toe to toe" then there would possibly be no  lapel grab at this range just the Head butt.
W.R.
Rich
PS who do you train with in Exeter?


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## Doc (Apr 12, 2006)

JamesB said:
			
		

> ... a totally realistic attack though, maybe after the initial shove, would the attacker attempt to regain control by pulling you back in?


Of course.


> how would you prevent the attacker from doing this and maintain control at the same time?


Feet, arms, hand, and head indexing. 


> ... the attack would be more realistic if it was written 'push out', then grab and anchor in.


Correct James as we teach it. You must account for the fact that when you are 'seized,' it initially is a medium grade 'strike/push' that can knock you backwards before it actually becomes the grab. Grabs to not occur in a sterile environment. 


> 2. Imagine that the attacker is a someone twice as big and twice as strong. How would the defender step back when someone has aggressively grabbed hold of them?


Feet, arms, hand, and head, indexing again.


> 3. what happens when can't step back, what is our response now?


For us James, It could be 'Mace of Aggression,' or perhaps a 'Raking Mace,' etc.


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## Doc (Apr 12, 2006)

kenpoworks said:
			
		

> Hi Ross
> I agree about the attack and even had a laugh about the mummy thing, kenpo "dummying" is a long time bug bear of mine, may I suggest  if the opponents are "toe to toe" then there would possibly be no  lapel grab at this range just the Head butt.


Hey China, as an old 'bottle and stopper' I agree with you. That's why you must take advantage of the rearward momentum created by his initial action, and control the depth, before he reverses the direction.


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## Ross (Apr 13, 2006)

kenpoworks said:
			
		

> PS who do you train with in Exeter?


 
Hi Rich,

I'm one of Kevin Mills' students. But my girlfriend is from Jersey so I often go over with her - let me know where abouts you are and I can pop in one time for a knock about.

Cheers
Ross


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## Ross (Apr 13, 2006)

Doc said:
			
		

> Feet, arms, hand, and head indexing.


 
Sir,
Can I just ask a question about head indexing, do you apply this to all techniques that involve a grab of some kind?

I would ask Mr Mills, but I wont see him now until Holland for the IKC 2006 - I understand Mr Angell is going too! Looking forward to his seminar.

Many thanks
Ross


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## Doc (Apr 13, 2006)

Ross said:
			
		

> Sir,
> Can I just ask a question about head indexing, do you apply this to all techniques that involve a grab of some kind?
> 
> I would ask Mr Mills, but I wont see him now until Holland for the IKC 2006 - I understand Mr Angell is going too! Looking forward to his seminar.
> ...


Indexing of all types is involved in ANY kind of movement, and especially when seized. I have only explored Head Indexing minimally with some, due to other type Indexing taking a priority in their training at the momemt. Mr. Angell will give you some insights when you see him in Holland. You may ALWAYS ask me a question sir.


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## kenpoworks (Apr 13, 2006)

Ross said:
			
		

> Hi Rich,
> 
> I'm one of Kevin Mills' students. But my girlfriend is from Jersey so I often go over with her - let me know where abouts you are and I can pop in one time for a knock about.
> 
> ...


 
Hey Ross,
I will catch up with you in Holland and you can pop in to train anytime you are..."on the Rock" .
Rich


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## Ross (Apr 13, 2006)

Doc said:
			
		

> Indexing of all types is involved in ANY kind of movement, and especially when seized. I have only explored Head Indexing minimally with some, due to other type Indexing taking a priority in their training at the momemt. Mr. Angell will give you some insights when you see him in Holland. You may ALWAYS ask me a question sir.


 
Thank you Sir,

Just one other thing while you've got me thinking, would you do a skip in this technique? I was thinking that you may on the first movement. Or would it not be applicable here?

Thanks for your help.


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## Ross (Apr 13, 2006)

kenpoworks said:
			
		

> Hey Ross,
> I will catch up with you in Holland and you can pop in to train anytime you are..."on the Rock" .
> Rich


 
Look forward to it.

Cheers.


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## Doc (Apr 13, 2006)

Ross said:
			
		

> Thank you Sir,
> 
> Just one other thing while you've got me thinking, would you do a skip in this technique? I was thinking that you may on the first movement. Or would it not be applicable here?
> 
> Thanks for your help.


Stay away from 'skips' for the moment. Other things take precendent to prevent confusion. (Foot Indexing)


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## Ross (Apr 13, 2006)

Doc said:
			
		

> Stay away from 'skips' for the moment. Other things take precendent to prevent confusion. (Foot Indexing)


 
Great, thank you.

Have a great Easter Weekend.


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