# Anyone can get a Black Belt? Is this True?



## still learning

Hello, Have you notice how many people who have a Black Belts. Watch them workout or perform somewhere and you wonder about their skills?

 Many schools have a minumum requirements and lenght of time, as short as one year to two years only? Does this make sense? What are your thoughts?

  Should this be like a State licence, for journey man workers,lawyers,doctors,mechanics,school teachers?


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## jfarnsworth

Yeah, watch whom you want and you'll see the good from the bad. Just remember that there are a "few" exceptions to the 1 - 2 year rule. Some people train and train and train. I remember reading in a kenpo book about 1 specific instructor that would train 16hrs. a  day 6 days a week. That's hardcore training not perform a self defense technique then take an hour break. Again, you'll be able to see those who train compared to those who don't. We have all seen those who get to black then can't fight their way out of a wet paper bag. Which then brings down the value of M.A. training in general to a layman who doesn't know any better.

Heck you can get a black belt here in 500 posts.  :uhyeah:


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## Bob Hubbard

Black belt is a non-standardized generic indicator or status/rank/etc.  It is not an indicator of skill, ability, knowledge or character.   Keep in mind, belt systems are a recent arrival on the martial arts scene.  A blackbelt in 1 art does not equal a black belt in another art.  Some arts have no belts, others don't use black, at least 1 black is a beginners belt, with white the 'top' rank.  

Personally, since I can buy one for $5 (complete with certificate), register my 'art' with some soke council or black belt society ($100-$3,000), I dismiss most claims of rank and look at a persons associations, peers (who endorse), and movements on the matt as criteria for selecting an instructor.


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## punisher73

Too many factors as has been said.  Main thing to look at is what does "blackbelt" mean in your style?  For some styles (even in Japan) it is considered a membership into the style and that you are ready to begin learning.  Other styles it is showed to achieve a certain physical mastery of the art.

Other questions to ask yourself.  Is it better to study from a blackbelt who has great technique and knows the material but can't explain it at all so it makes it easy to learn. Or someone who has ok technique to demonstrate it to you, but can explain it very well so you pick up on all the details you should be doing.

Blackbelts are really only relative to the style and organization you are with and to those parameters of those organizations.  Find out what your goals are for studying and find someone to help you reach those goals regardless of rank.


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## tshadowchaser

Great posts.
I agree that you must look to the person not what is around his/her waist. 
Skill, knowledge, experence,, and the ability to back up the rank have nothing to do with who wears the belt (many times) these days. When you can buy a belt online with the cert to go with it you degrade the art but many people could care less about that. These people are in in for the glory and to have people look up to them. Hell you don't even need to buy one you can make your own cert. and put your name and the name of whatever phoney school you want to represent on it.
Also there are instructors out there who want to glorify themslefs and push their art/school/system so bad that they could care less if you know anything as long put their logo on you uniform. 
These are the types of people that make those who train hard for their rank rant and rave and tear out their hair over the stupidity of things.


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## tmonis

In our system, Belt levels mean you have been shown the material to that level. It does not mean you are a great fighter, going to be the next Bruce Lee, Jackie Chan, or Steven Segal. It simply means that you have been taught the materail to that level. It is the person and what they do with that material that makes them who they are in the arts. It takes alot of effort on their part to prefect what they have been shown. Lots of practice outside of the Dojo. A teacher or instructor can only bring the knowledge to you. They can not make you learn it. That is all up to you. It is my hope that no instructor would promote someone who is not actually ready, however we all know that is not the case. Money stands in the way of some really good instructors buy selling everything on video or issuing rank to someone they have never met or trained with. Videos are a good resource to have as a reference. However they should never take the place of actual training. The ones that do sell rank and belts really disappoint me. And what is worse is it seems even some of the old Founders, really reputal Martial Artist, are doing it to. Cashing in on their name and reputation just to make a quick buck. How good really are these students that do that? And what about the false since of security it gives them in a real fight.


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## Vadim

I look at the blackbelt as an indicator of a basic proficiency in your chosen martial art. I see many people coming into the school and wanting to get to blackbelt as quick as possible. These people will have the best intentions but some find themselves burning out on training. In my own path I enjoyed the path of progress from each belt to the next although that was not my motivation for training hard. I truely enjoyed enhancing my skills and the almost dynamic meditation of being involved in the sparring and grappling aspects of my style. For me its kind of entering a zone and just having fun.

  Hopefully people will take the time to appreciate the path of their chosen martial art and realize that the blackbelt is not an end to training but only a beginning. Keep on training.:asian: 

-Vadim


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## tmonis

Vadim,

Very nicely put. That captures the feeling of the whole training process very well.


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## Drac

Sad but true...They were selling Black Belt ranks on E-bay not too long ago..


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## Vadim

Hi tmonis! Thanks for the kind words.:asian: 

-Vadim


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## still learning

Hello, Thank-you for the feedbacks. Growing up in on a island ,you run into friends who saids my cousin is a black belt and you were impress. As an adult today and having experience the martial world, thru Seminars,tournments,etc. You realize the impression you had in the younger days are not the same today. Thank-you and ...Aloha


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## Blooming Lotus

When I read this thread title, my thoughts went something along the lines of Kaiths comment. Unfortunately because I know that these almighty belts can be bought and your "skill" registered for only a few dollars, being in possession of one, fails to impress.

I do however, love a person who demonstrates their skill in either discussing their knowledge or shows it on the mat. Not to offend anyone here, but I have personally met and spoken with many a clueless black belt, and unfortunately ( or not ) for those that worked so diligently to earn theirs, ( as opposed to those who bought or "negotiated " the terms of theirs ( mcdojo style for example ), often that belt means little. THankfully however, skill, knowledge and wude ( the martial morales I generally consider integral to any real skill ) has a way of making itself known.

cheers MAers



Blooming Lotus


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## Athena

tmonis said:
			
		

> In our system, Belt levels mean you have been shown the material to that level. It does not mean you are a great fighter, going to be the next Bruce Lee, Jackie Chan, or Steven Segal. It simply means that you have been taught the materail to that level. It is the person and what they do with that material that makes them who they are in the arts. It takes alot of effort on their part to prefect what they have been shown. Lots of practice outside of the Dojo. A teacher or instructor can only bring the knowledge to you. They can not make you learn it. That is all up to you. QUOTE]
> 
> this goes along with something my instructors always tell me. you might look at someone who has a blackbelt and say "oh man, his sidekicks aren't that high, why does he have a blackbelt?" or something along those lines. something that has always been stressed at my school is that a belt reflects someone's potential as an _individual_  martial artist; it does not necessarily compare him/her to anyone else. one person may "master" a technique by his/her own standards, even if you or i could do it better. if this person can adapt the technique to his/her own body type and *make it effective*, they have met the requirements to progress and gather more information.  that's the philosophy that i've entountered, anwyway.


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## tmonis

Vadim said:
			
		

> Hi tmonis! Thanks for the kind words.:asian:
> 
> -Vadim


Vadim = Your assessment was right on target. Those were great words of wisdom. More people need to think like that. So it was easy to say kinds words to you. To many people forget about the long road in Martial Arts training. They only want the fast food or McDojo Black Belt without truly earning it. It really disappoints me that people are selling them like that.


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## tmonis

Athena,

this goes along with something my instructors always tell me. you might look at someone who has a blackbelt and say "oh man, his sidekicks aren't that high, why does he have a blackbelt?" or something along those lines. something that has always been stressed at my school is that a belt reflects someone's potential as an _individual_ martial artist; it does not necessarily compare him/her to anyone else. one person may "master" a technique by his/her own standards, even if you or i could do it better. if this person can adapt the technique to his/her own body type and *make it effective*, they have met the requirements to progress and gather more information. that's the philosophy that i've entountered, anwyway.[/QUOTE] 
Athena= I agree with you and your Instructor as well. That also is great wisdom to follow.


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## archmagician

The journey of the martial artist is a neverending one. There is never a time when you can stop to say that your training is now complete; for if you do, you will be walking off the path of a true martial artist. A black belt is meaningless token for it is not the belt that makes the martial artist; it is simply the goal of perfecting ones martial skill, that makes one a martial artist.

Learning the martial arts is a daily struggle against one's self discipline. There are many false paths for the warrior to deviate on and miss the truth of the martial arts. The truth about martial arts is fighting. It is not about forms, not about strength building exercises or fitness, it is not about breaking boards, or doing fancy acrobatics, or learning hundreds of techniques. It is not about lineage, or which famous masters you have studied under, or how many styes you have studied.

Sometimes we need to do some of the previously mentioned things to reach the goal, but the truth will always be about fighting. When you design a routine for yourself or seek to learn something, always ask, will this really improve my fighting? Be completey and bluntly honest with yourself when you answer the question. I have seen many people focus on just one aspect and they really are walking off the path. Always seek the truth!

The path to the truth is usually the hardest path. It is frought with misteps, misinformation, and misdirection which can easily lead you astray. It is usually the path that we least want to take. Seek the long path; for seldom does one who always seeks the shortest path stay long in the martial arts. Don't look to take long steps for the truth lies in the smallest of steps. When we are content in taking small steps, then no failure ever upsets us.

Seek to improve your fighting skills by working on your weakest points, and doing the things that you usually hate doing, thats when you are probably walking the path. The path of the martial arts is a life long one, in which belts are irrellevant. It is a journey that only you can start, and one which you will travel alone; for no other person is inside your head hearing your fears, doubts, and misgivings.

Don't worry about your rank, everyday just walk the path and seek the truth, and then you will truely be a martial artist.


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## Adept

The bottom line is that, within reason, everyone can get a black belt. But not all black belts are equal. As most others have said, the colour of your belt does not always equate to your level of competence.


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## scfgabe

I have had the same question, since I am also a beginner.  However, the biggest indicator that I have looked for is proficiency put into *practice*.  Someone should be able to *use* their skills in a practical setting before earning their belt.  Anyone can memorize a routine, but what about when you have an opponent coming at you and you don't know what they will do?  This is where training really comes together.


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## Flatlander

Something else to consider as well - once a student achieves black belt ranking, what do they do with it?  If they decide that their journey is complete, and make the choice to conclude their trianing because they "are a black belt now", what real meaning does that rank have?  As we all know, or should know, your training is only as relevant to your skill as you make it.  If you do not continue to hone and improve your skills, they fade.  If you don't continue to test your reflexes, to work your techniques, you lose that edge.  So, If you haven't worked those skills for an extened period, I believe that they will fade, and the "black belt" rank will lose its significance.  

This is why black belt really means nothing to me.  It's a landmark that we find on a long road; if we cease the journey, the landmark means nothing.  It evaporates and becomes a memory.

:asian:


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## Enson

when i first started ma... and even before i often thought black belt was the destination... i knew nothing of self discipline or body movement. i was lets say... a "barbarian". now that i have been practicing i understand that black belt is only a sign saying you have learned everything below it.

i think anyone if they put their mind to it can at least attain shodan but then when they have recieved that they will realize they have only yet begun.

peace


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## Kizaru

Enson said:
			
		

> i think anyone if they put their mind to it can at least attain shodan but then when they have recieved that they will realize they have only yet begun.


The characters for "shodan" in Japanese mean "Beginning Step". From my experience, in Japan, that's exactly what it means in most dojo. After 2 or 3 years of training, you've learned the basics and taken your first "step" onto the ladder. It doesn't mean you understand everything in the school you're studying or that you can even "fight well"...just that you've learned the basics. Anyone can learn the basics.


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## OnlyAnEgg

Although I hope to attain, at least, black belt level, I entered MA with the belief, 'the point of the journey is not to arrive'.  I look forward to learning my basics correctly and learning beyond black as fully as I can.


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## TChase

There is a big difference in _*getting a black*_ belt and _*being a black belt*_.  Some people talk the talk, and some people walk the walk.  In the end it comes down to what you want to get out of it, what you're willing to put into it, and who you choose to guide you on that path.


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## Simon Curran

I think I would have to agree with the general concencus here, I am not a black belt and have no pretentions about not being a black belt, however, I do know that if, and when, I am eventually awarded a black belt it will be because I have earned it, not bought it.

Those people out there who wear a black belt which they have not really earned by proving their martial proficiency (i.e. being able to fight!!!) are an insult to the rest of us who train hard with the intention of becoming a better martial artist and hopefully a better person, and merely perpetuate the myth which is now becoming more and more common amongst the layman that "That stuff don't really work..."
From mo own point of view, I would rather be a proficient green belt than a useless black belt who gets his backside kicked the first time he is jumped by some drunken idiot in a bar. (and for the record those of us without a black belt ranking are not necessarily without ability in a self defence situation)

Just my thoughts...


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## Shidan

Yes, anyone can get a black belt.  I have witnessed -far too many and was require to promote a number of incompetent individuals.

I have since left the style as it is currently populated with a bunch of kids wearing 6th degree Master belts because their daddy runs the organization.  The kids even direct what what 7th & 8th degree Masters are supposed to do as well.  A bit messed up.

However, in that style a person merely needed to attend class, attend group functions (seminars) and hang out for 3-6 years to get a black belt.  3 years for a male of the age of 15-25, longer for everyone else.

Better still, you won't receive a certificate of your rank until your next belt.  Nice way to keep people around paying.  You can wear your master belt -you just really are not one on paper.


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## greyghost

Unfortunately, yes, anyone can get a blackbelt.

 True story #1: I'm in a small town. We have a guy here who taught himself MA from BOOKS, granted himself a 7th-Dan, and opened a school! It's really interesting to watch his classes. *cough*

 True story #2: My family moved when I was in college, and I started looking for a new school in the area that I felt I could work with. I was a 4th Kup (4 ranks below black) and the instructor himself, while good in form, was mostly interested in the number of trophies that could adorn his front windows. After spending a half hour dissing my old school in front of my dad (which ticked me off, it was a very good school)... then being impressed by my kicks and style in class, he came up to me after that first class and said "Your kicks are great. Tell you what, work with me for 6 months, and I'll give you your blackbelt."
 I was kind of rude in my reply, I guess. But I told him I wanted to earn my black, not have it given to me. I finished my month's contract to ensure my little brother's safety, and never came back.

 True story #3: Another school. Not the best...but there was one Dan that I could not understand as a blackbelt. He was sloppy, he had no control, his forms were terrible. He had been with the school for 8 years and they had finally just given it to him for perserverance's sake.


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## FearlessFreep

I've been under the impression that at least the prespective of where I attend, is  that a black belt means you have learned the basics of the sport and all the techniques and  that progression through the Dan ranks is really perfecting and mastering all the techniques, etc. Getting to BB is preparing for the journey, BB is where the journey really begins.

Not meaning to downplay just getting a BB; preparing for the journey itslef seems to take a lot of work and prepatation and practice and focus and persaverence


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## Shidan

FearlessFreep said:
			
		

> I've been under the impression that at least the prespective of where I attend, is that a black belt means you have learned the basics of the sport and all the techniques and that progression through the Dan ranks is really perfecting and mastering all the techniques, etc. Getting to BB is preparing for the journey, BB is where the journey really begins.
> 
> Not meaning to downplay just getting a BB; preparing for the journey itslef seems to take a lot of work and prepatation and practice and focus and persaverence


I absolutley agree that BB is the beginning!  At BB one only has knowledge of the moves and may or may not know what they mean just yet -that is what the rest of the journey is for.

Just stinks when a young kid (someone 25 or younger) is named to a 'master' when all they have is the physical movements.  No understanding of life as a whole.


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## MichiganTKD

No, not everyone can be a black belt. Everyone has the _potential _to be a black belt. There is a difference. Not everyone will earn a diploma, though everyone has the potential.
Lots of things come into play. How hard you train, how good your technique is, how good your Instructor is, your concentration level, your attitude.
If you come to class and treat Tae Kwon Do or any MA as a game or simply recreation and a chance to meet guys or women, you will never make black belt. Not legitimately anyway.
If your technique couldn't beat off a 90 year old blind grandma with arthritis, you will not make black belt.
If your Instructor magically became a 7th Dan during the 13 hour flight from Korea to America, your Dan certificate is questionable.
If you think Tae Kwon Do is designed to hurt people so they respect and fear you, you should not be a black belt.

There is a difference between a black belt and a Black Belt. A black belt can be bought around $20 in a supply store and gives you a false sense of accomplishment. It is usually given by phony teachers just happy to have your money.
A Black Belt is something you busted your *** for, sweated and bled for, endured your Instructor yelling at you for, and is worn proudly because you know you earned it. Mine is anyway.
As I said, everyone has the potential to be a Black Belt, but not many will.


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## Miles

MichTKD,

That's a "keeper."  A good instructor will bring out the black belt in a student whose willing to pay the price in sweat, aches and time.

Miles


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## dmdfromhamilton

I have to agree with pretty much everyone that a bb is just beggining to learn. In our art we really don't even get into the philoshical stuff until after the bb. Also we don't do the majority of eapons until after black belt. As for the last thing in the first post no i don't think black belts should have to go through the government. its a nice idea but there are too many styles and substyles(many of them unknown) to mantain a fair testing systemand also too many government officials are corrupt and make me want to do this :mp5: but i won't cause i'm too nice of a guy...


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## masherdong

Well, I believe that if anyone sticks with the art, they can eventually earn the rank of black belt.  However, there are people who are selling black belts on ebay which I do not agree with.  I mean where is the integrity?


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## still learning

Hello, Thanks again for the feedback! .......Aloha


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## masherdong

No problem.  Hope this helped you out.


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## ginshun

> There is a big difference in _*getting a black*_ belt and _*being a black belt*_.


 I am far from being (or getting) a black belt, but that is a great quote.


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## KenpoNoChikara

masherdong said:
			
		

> Well, I believe that if anyone sticks with the art, they can eventually earn the rank of black belt. However, there are people who are selling black belts on ebay which I do not agree with. I mean where is the integrity?


Black Belts on EBay????????  What next....Lol, ya think you've seen everything       that's really too bad

By any chance do you remember who it was that was selling them?


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## masherdong

> Black Belts on EBay???????? What next....Lol, ya think you've seen everything that's really too bad
> 
> By any chance do you remember who it was that was selling them?


I don't want to point fingers or mention names because I think they post on here too.  All you have to do is type in karate in the search field and they will pop up.


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## Blindside

still learning said:
			
		

> Hello, Have you notice how many people who have a Black Belts. Watch them workout or perform somewhere and you wonder about their skills?
> 
> Many schools have a minumum requirements and lenght of time, as short as one year to two years only? Does this make sense? What are your thoughts?
> 
> Should this be like a State licence, for journey man workers,lawyers,doctors,mechanics,school teachers?



In the words of one of my instructors "desire is not enough."  So no, not everyone can be a black belt.  At our school a black belt is considered an instructor rank, this is not the same thing as "knowing all your basics."  There are certain mental and physical attributes that have to be acquired, they _should_ be attainable by almost everyone, but most people either can't or don't.     

Lamont


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## Drac

Kaith Rustaz said:
			
		

> Personally, since I can buy one for $5 (complete with certificate), register my 'art' with some soke council or black belt society ($100-$3,000), I dismiss most claims of rank and look at a persons associations, peers (who endorse), and movements on the matt as criteria for selecting an instructor.


Sad but true..$5.00? that's a good price..The last one I saw was $35.00, I'll bet that was due to the wooden frame the certificate came in..


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## masherdong

Wow, $35?!?!  Do they have embroidering on it or what?


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## thepanjr

in the style i go to is that u can get black belt after 18 years and have to be really good. Iwant to get my black belt one day. The thing that counts is how much u practised to get there not beacuse u just have a blck belt. Its just a belt with a colour. U can just get a white belt and paint it with black.


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## LT2002

I agree with someone's statement eariler about potential.  Most people won't ever see a BB because they quit too early.  Once they find out there is work involved - byebye.


Should everyone be one? Nope.  Too many people think they are good when the BB is a sign of beginning ofstudy and not mastery of technique.  Then there is the overkill on mastery   another time perhaps?


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## Drac

KenpoNoChikara said:
			
		

> Black Belts on EBay???????? What next....Lol, ya think you've seen everything that's really too bad
> 
> By any chance do you remember who it was that was selling them?


Go to the E-bay main menu page and type in "KARATE" in the what are you looking for box....They were also selling a "doctorette" in Martial Arts for a short period..Everything the McDojo owner needs for his walls...


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## KenpoNoChikara

Drac said:
			
		

> Go to the E-bay main menu page and type in "KARATE" in the what are you looking for box....They were also selling a "doctorette" in Martial Arts for a short period..Everything the McDojo owner needs for his walls...


Thank you much. :asian: 

Like what other posters had said before, from what I have seen, black belt is really just the beginning, there is just so much to learn. My style defines black belt as Master of Basics, and for good reason, I suppose. It takes time to perfect everything. It's too bad that so many people quit and miss out on all the great stuff that comes after black belt (not that I would know just yet, but it sounds awesome, Lol) 
I imagine how difficult it must be to be looking for a good martial arts school, and have to sift through all of these dojos with "Black Belt Masters" who just bought the belt and certificate. I got lucky and found a good place right away.


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## MichiganTKD

Apparently, anyone CAN get a black belt. If you follow this link, it should take you to a site on Ebay where an authentic American Kenpo 5th Dan black belt and all ranks below it are yours for the asking.


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=47348&item=7143430225&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW


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## Brother John

still learning said:
			
		

> Hello, Have you notice how many people who have a Black Belts. Watch them workout or perform somewhere and you wonder about their skills?
> Many schools have a minumum requirements and lenght of time, as short as one year to two years only? Does this make sense? What are your thoughts?
> Should this be like a State licence, for journey man workers,lawyers,doctors,mechanics,school teachers?


Yeah, I've noticed Black Belts that couldn't move well. Even high ranking ones that moved like robots. It was sad. 
There's three things you are talking about here:
1. Knowledge.
2. Ability to perform.
3. Ability to pass the art to others, to engender 1 + 2.

There are black belts that know the ins and outs of their style, but can't 'do' their art as well.
There are those that don't 'know' as much as someone at their rank should, but can DO what they know with a high degree of consistant quality.
There are those who can teach their art better than they themselves can DO the art.
Then theres those that know their art well and can do it well, but can't communicate it well to others. (these make fine senior students for inspiration, but POOR instructors if they try their hand at it.)
Last but most importantly: There are those who Know their art well, can do (perform/execute) their art with consistant quality and can help others gain in both of these areas as well. THESE are the ones that we look up to, these are the ones we should follow. 

UNFORTUNATELY: Joe public doesn't have the knowledge or experience to be able to discern one of these types from another. They may see their local Jon Q. BlackBelt and think "Now THERE is a black belt. That's what a black belt should be like." But they don't know. Their basis for comparison is exceedingly shallow. So they go study under Mr. local BlackBelt and train for a good while, putting their effort into it and trying their best. When, down the road, they feel they aren't making the type of progress they should in ability or understanding... they DON'T question their instructor (generally) because of the classroom sermons on "Patience" and long endurance. So they keep their head down and keep going. 
THEN: We get another 'Black Belt' who's knowledge and ability is good
BY THEIR STANDARDS
but by the standards of people who've been 'around the block' w/in martial arts circles for a while....SUBstandard at best.
It's an unfortunate cycle.

It takes some information and time to discern the wheat from the chaff in the martial arts community. Imagine being one of those that just happens to fall into the right hands the first time around. Like Mr. Frank Trejo. If memory serves, he first trained in Shotokan and then his mother showed him an add that Grandmaster Parker placed looking for "Black Belt instructors". He replied and wound up a personal student of the Grandmaster of American Kenpo Karate. WOW... what good fortune!!
Then there's the guys in Ho-hum nowheresville. Their options are usually limited AT BEST. But they do the best they can with what they've been given.

Length of time has nothing to do with earning a Black Belt!!! Sure, it shouldn't be 'quick' per-say... not really. But 'quick' compared to what? Compared to earning a PHD we are there lickedy-split. Compared to the Indy 500, it takes us a long time to get to our goal. 
Time is relative, it's the amound of quality work and attention to detail that will make the biggest bang for your buck down the road, regardless of how much "Down the road" you are. 
See, if there were some 'State Board of Martial Arts' that said that a person who's been doing a martial art for 4 years should have a black belt, or just that that's the minimum of time needed.... it wouldn't effect the quality of understanding or ability or ability to teach one whit. If you can't get good quality, the amount of time is irrelevant. 2 years of substandard quality compared to 10 years of substandard quality will both get the same thing: Substandard.

Nah....the 'state' should stay out of it. There's more that goes into "earning" a Black Belt than can be quantified or labeled. Much more. Knowledge, Ability and ability to teach are just the main landmarks along the way... but they aren't all!

Sorry to rant on, but this is something I've thought a while about.
Your Brother
John


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## masherdong

> Apparently, anyone CAN get a black belt. If you follow this link, it should take you to a site on Ebay where an authentic American Kenpo 5th Dan black belt and all ranks below it are yours for the asking.
> 
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...ssPageName=WDVW


 
That guy posts on here sometimes.  His username is acordskenpo.  I have the video set of that program but I am using it as supplemental info since I have an instructor and can only make classes once a week due to going to school at night.


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## safeeagle

lets say your a great athlete and great black belt martial artist. God forbid you become paralized. Are you still a black belt? Of course you are. I feel belt promotion is a sign of knowledge and skill. The knowledge is more important. so yes in this respect anyone can get a black belt. Now can anyone teach? that's a different story.


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## still learning

Hello, Great feedbacks and I enjoy your thoughts!.......Aloha


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## masherdong

No problem. That is what we are all here for.


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## Shibumi

In my dojo Black Belt is also defined as Master of Basics, a license to learn so to speak. It takes 4.5 to 5 years minimum to earn one, and our belt testings for the kyu grades are 6 to 8 hour endurance/comprehensive reviews. The shodan test is 8 hours first day and 7 hours second day. I felt little glory at the end of the second day, just relief that I made it all the way! Could anyone have done it? Anyone who possesses the determination to not quit no matter how bad it hurts could do it. Anyone with 6 bucks can buy one at the local martial arts store, but where would you wear it? The truth always comes to the top eventually.


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## swiftpete

*"What if I have a training partner, can they also receive rank certification without buying the manual?*​


*Just add $25.00 and include your training partners full name, and we will add thier certificates too!*​



​



​



*This is from the advert.*​*That's pretty easy eh? You just send in your name and there you go, you're a black belt! Why would anyone want to do this, I really can't understand how you could feel good knowing you sent off a cheque and did no training and are now a black belt.*​


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## Gentle Fist

Has the guy selling 5th Dans in EPAK even studied under SGM Parker?  Hell, anyone of us could buy the video then sell it again to the next smuck and claim it as our own....  How many people actually fall for this?


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## Kenpojujitsu3

Anyone CAN get a black belt.  But just keep in mind one simple rule.  The Belt itself cannot talk or perform.  Therefore, the belt doesn't show any skill in fighting or teaching.  Like all things Martial Arts, It's much deeper than that and few things are as they seem at first glance.


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## dubljay

I haven't been following this thread so pelase forgive me if this has already been stated, howerver there is a quote that fits this.

 "Q:How long does it take for the average person to recieve a black belt? A: Average people don't get black belts"

 Mr. 'Huk' Planas 

 Anyone could recieve a black belt, but it takes some one special to _earn_ one.  

 -Josh


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## bushi jon

A black belt is nothing more than basic understanding of the ryu,after black belt is when you get let into the good stuff. I remember seeing a 5 dan and thinking this guy sucks then when it was my turn to be thrown his tech did the work as sloppy as it looked


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## Kenpojujitsu3

Pewter Belt??? ROTFLMAO


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## evenflow1121

Good Post, I dont believe there should be a state or worse God forbid a federal requirement.  Its all about value, hey lets face it, while it is true that some innocent people are conned, a lot more like to lie to themselves and want to simply brag about achieving a black belt, to these people the value does not lie with the quality of instructions but rather with attain a black belt in a relatively short time, so they can rant and brag about it even though deep down inside they know their bb is practically worthless.  Perhaps I have simply become somewhat bitter on the subject in general, having been in the martial arts for a while now, I simply can not percieve how a reasonable individual would not be in the least skeptic with respect to being able to achieve a black belt in 2 yrs, even if said individual has never practiced martial arts before.


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## bushi jon

what does this mean ROTFLMAO??? I never worry about rank I just worry about the fun I have working out. In my life it is not so much the destination it is the journey that makes my travel worth while.


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## Kempogeek

bushi jon said:
			
		

> what does this mean ROTFLMAO??? I never worry about rank I just worry about the fun I have working out. In my life it is not so much the destination it is the journey that makes my travel worth while.


I believe it stands for "Rolling On The Floor Laughing My A** Off". I think that's it but don't quote me. Pewter Belt, That's funny ....Steve


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## masherdong

ROTFLMAO= Rolling on the floor, laughing my *** off


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## bushi jon

Am I showing my age?


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## Kenpojujitsu3

Yes You are


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## bushi jon

I am 39 today and I have been in the martial arts for 30 years as of today(20) if you add up the period I stopped teaching. It was on my 9th birthday I took my firast lesson in South St Louis Mo.


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## Kenpojujitsu3

25 years of age here, Martial Arts for 19 years, teaching for 12 years


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## kingkong89

that is an interesting though, most schools give the next belt by time and not knowledge, for instance some people could be a black belt after a year, now my school system you learn befor you earn, katas words and tech. befor you get your next belt.


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## MSTCNC

*OLD THREAD ADVISORY!*

Sorry if this has already been stated elsewhere in this thread from 2005&#8230; but, I wanted to weigh in here... and don't have time to read through the last 4-pages...

I've been training off & on in the MA since I was 14. Sometimes more off... sometimes more on... and I've been exposed to several different styles... under different circumstances...

Here's my take on Black belt... 

Black&#8217;s the new white!

Now, before I have a thousand MA heading for DE to kick my butt... allow me to explain as my first teacher, Shihan Paul Arel, once explained it to me...

When we first start our training as white belts... we're void of the knowledge, techniques, and skills needed to "succeed" in the arts. As time goes by (too fast for my taste in some "dojo")... we advance through the colored ranks... each time (hopefully) learning more, refining what we already knew... and getting a better understanding of the foundation of our chosen art...

And here (in my opinion) is where people tend to get tripped up... they make it to 1st Dan and figure that they're now a Black Belt... and that there&#8217;s nothing else to learn... and that they can just practice here and there... and still be "good to go"! 

[HOCKEY BUZZER!] W-R-O-N-G!

Unfortunately, I&#8217;ve seen more than a few &#8220;good&#8221; MA go down in flames this way&#8230; and it&#8217;s sad (at least to me)&#8230;

Shihan Paul told me long ago (can it really be 25-years?) that, just as life is a cycle, so is your MA training&#8230; you&#8217;re continually starting, growing, and renewing&#8230;

Your belt itself best represents this. It starts out snow-white, slowly darkening until it&#8217;s brown in color&#8230; then black. But, here&#8217;s the funny thing&#8230; as the black belt continues to wear&#8230; what happens? It starts to show threads of white&#8230; renewing the cycle once again&#8230;

So, think of white though black as the first cycle in your MA career&#8230; and not the final, end all destination some see it as. After all, doesn&#8217;t the journey itself teach us much more than simply arriving?

With respect,

Andy
Student of Life (and therefore of the MA)

P.S. HAPPY BIRTHDAY, TYLER!


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## mjd

Think what you may, but Mcdojo's run ramped out there, many schools are just money making machines and don't give a hoot if you have any skills or not, they only concern themselves with the next test for $$$, and selling gear.

My linage of instructors have always promoted making it to black belt has only prepared you to properly start learning MA. It's the start of a new cycle. At first degree black belt you know nothing.


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## Grasshopper22

I personally believe that too many people have earned their black belt before they have the necessary skills however the black belt does not mean what it used to, the black belt used to be the highest ranking belt that one could only wear once they became a sensei. Nowadays however, the black belt simply means that you have mastered all of the basic skills and are ready to begin more advanced training.


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## Chris Parker

Grasshopper22 said:


> I personally believe that too many people have earned their black belt before they have the necessary skills however the black belt does not mean what it used to, *the black belt used to be the highest ranking belt that one could only wear once they became a sensei.* Nowadays however, the black belt simply means that you have mastered all of the basic skills and are ready to begin more advanced training.



Uh.... nope. The whole idea of "black belt" was first introduced by Kano Jigoro, who developed the Kyu/Dan grading system from the game "Go". And the main reason it was developed in the first place was that Judo was getting very popular in Universities and schools around Japan, and Kano didn't know all the students personally when he visited to teach... so he needed an immediately identifiable way to tell roughly how much experience and skill a person had, so he could pick who to have as his demonstration dummy. And there were always multiple levels of black belt, right from the very beginning (when he first awarded them, he was awarding 1st, 2nd, 3rd... up to 6th Dan, from memory). Remember that "Dan" means "level", so as a 1st Dan, you are at the first level.

And again, check the dates before resurrecting threads. Thanks.


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## ks - learning to fly

...based on the online access of a black belt w/ certificate, then I guess anyone could "get" a black belt....Could just anyone EARN a Black Belt??  Probably not.


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## donald1

about the comment earlier it really dosnt matter how high a kick is because there  are targets all over the body from the tip of the head to the tips of the toes. as for anyone get black belt, yes it just takes time because Ive been in it nearly 3 years im a purple belt brown stripe all what left is the brown belt, two black stripes, then a black belt ill be getting mine around july next not next year but the January after that so yes anybody can get one.


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## donald1

that may be true but how did the idea of black belts get to all karate styles


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## Cyriacus

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/PLAIN-BE...&var&hash=item19d6afb2cd&_uhb=1#ht_3010wt_250

I know Judo now!


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## punisher73

Chris Parker said:


> Uh.... nope. The whole idea of "black belt" was first introduced by Kano Jigoro, who developed the Kyu/Dan grading system from the game "Go". And the main reason it was developed in the first place was that Judo was getting very popular in Universities and schools around Japan, and Kano didn't know all the students personally when he visited to teach... so he needed an immediately identifiable way to tell roughly how much experience and skill a person had, so he could pick who to have as his demonstration dummy. And there were always multiple levels of black belt, right from the very beginning (when he first awarded them, he was awarding 1st, 2nd, 3rd... up to 6th Dan, from memory). Remember that "Dan" means "level", so as a 1st Dan, you are at the first level.
> 
> And again, check the dates before resurrecting threads. Thanks.



To his credit the person did state he knew it was an old thread but still wanted to weigh in.

But, I agree with how Kano introduced the ranks.  And ever since then each style/organization/school has used the "blackbelt" to mean different things.  So outside of your own school, a blackbelt really means nothing since there are no standards in place as to what it means.


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## celtic_crippler

Yes. The answer is yes. Anyone can go to the Century Martial Arts web page and purchase a black belt. 

Can anyone _*BE*_ a black belt? No.


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## Blindside

donald1 said:


> that may be true but how did the idea of black belts get to all karate styles



Gichin Funakoshi adopted the belt system that Jigoro Kano was using for Judo and instituted it into Shotokan.  About 15 years later, the Butoku-kai (effectively a Japanese government sub-agency aimed at regulating/promoting martial arts in Japan), pushed for it to be adopted into the other Japanese karate styles that were proliferating at the time.  From Japan it spread backward into Okinawa.


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## Chris Parker

punisher73 said:


> To his credit the person did state he knew it was an old thread but still wanted to weigh in.
> 
> But, I agree with how Kano introduced the ranks.  And ever since then each style/organization/school has used the "blackbelt" to mean different things.  So outside of your own school, a blackbelt really means nothing since there are no standards in place as to what it means.



Just for context, no, Grasshopper didn't state anything about knowing it was an old thread.... my post was directly after his, and contained his entire comment. His post was 6 years after the last one, as well. But my point to him (at that time) was that he had been resurrecting a large number of older threads without checking the dates, including questioning posts and members who hadn't been active in years, so it was just a friendly hint to check the posting dates before responding to people who won't read his comments. But that was then, not now, which was, again, nearly a year ago, so there's little reason harping on it now.


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## seasoned

So far this old thread has produced 10 new posts. The way I see it the old threads are there for three reasons, nostalgia/reference/resurrection.


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