# Wing Chun-Insider information



## futsaowingchun (Jun 17, 2015)

This Video will reveal the inner workings of the Wing Chun system. What some might call, secrets of the systems!!


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## Kwan Sau (Jun 18, 2015)

futsaowingchun said:


> This Video will reveal the inner workings of the Wing Chun system. What some might call, secrets of the systems!!



You are joking right!?  
Besides, your signature on another forum is this:
"_There is no REAL secrets in Wing Chun, but because the forms are conceptual you have to know how to decipher the information..That's the secret_.."


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## Vajramusti (Jun 18, 2015)

Kwan Sau said:


> You are joking right!?
> Besides, your signature on another forum is this:
> "_There is no REAL secrets in Wing Chun, but because the forms are conceptual you have to know how to decipher the information..That's the secret_.."


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## Vajramusti (Jun 18, 2015)

Such secrets  should be kept


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## futsaowingchun (Jun 18, 2015)

Kwan Sau said:


> You are joking right!?
> Besides, your signature on another forum is this:
> "_There is no REAL secrets in Wing Chun, but because the forms are conceptual you have to know how to decipher the information..That's the secret_.."



I would rather discuss the content of the video then the title of it. I agree there are no real secrets.  I never said there was.Some  people think there are Like JOY for instance, Hence the title of the video...


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## Danny T (Jun 18, 2015)

futsaowingchun said:


> This Video will reveal the inner workings of the Wing Chun system. What some might call, secrets of the systems!!


For a well trained person there are no secrets; to the others all secrets are hidden in plain view. Right where they should be.


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## geezer (Jun 18, 2015)

Danny T said:


> For a well trained person there are no secrets; to the others all secrets are hidden in plain view. Right where they should be.



Here's a random observation. _Secrets_ spelled backwards is _sterces_ ...or more properly _stircus. _That's Latin for _B.S.  _


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## Vajramusti (Jun 18, 2015)

futsaowingchun said:


> I would rather discuss the content of the video then the title of it. I agree there are no real secrets.  I never said there was.Some  people think there are Like JOY for instance, Hence the title of the video...


--------------------------------------------------------

Like Joy?


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## Jens (Jun 18, 2015)

Vajramusti said:


> --------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Like Joy?


 isn't that why you don't do youtube videos??


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## futsaowingchun (Jun 18, 2015)

Vajramusti said:


> --------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Like Joy?




You wrote this,did you not?
" Such secrets should be kept "  post # 4


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## futsaowingchun (Jun 18, 2015)

secrets = in Chinese culture means pay me a lot of money otherwise you don't learn ****....


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## JPinAZ (Jun 18, 2015)

I'm not sure I see anything 'secret' or 'insider' in this clip. Just some loose/general WC ideas, demonstrated a bit sloppily if you're looking for input.

Futsao, if you don't want to discuss the title, then why title it as such? Are you just troll baiting - or did you actually have a purpose for naming the clip as such (or for sharing it for that matter)? This isn't the first time you've run into issues with titling of your videos..


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## Vajramusti (Jun 18, 2015)

futsaowingchun said:


> You wrote this,did you not?
> " Such secrets should be kept "  post # 4


-------------------------------------------------------Try reading again. You titled  your post "Insider trade secrets"
those are the secrets that probably should be kept .


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## futsaowingchun (Jun 18, 2015)

Vajramusti said:


> -------------------------------------------------------Try reading again. You titled  your post "Insider trade secrets"
> those are the secrets that probably should be kept .



Yes I know what the title of my videos is,but if you read in the description you will see that I'm using that way because some people think of it in that way..


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## futsaowingchun (Jun 18, 2015)

JPinAZ said:


> I'm not sure I see anything 'secret' or 'insider' in this clip. Just some loose/general WC ideas, demonstrated a bit sloppily if you're looking for input.
> 
> Futsao, if you don't want to discuss the title, then why title it as such? Are you just troll baiting - or did you actually have a purpose for naming the clip as such (or for sharing it for that matter)? This isn't the first time you've run into issues with titling of your videos..



Do I need permission to title my own videos from you? I can call it anything I want.


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## JPinAZ (Jun 19, 2015)

Hmm.. You're the one getting uppity when someone mentions the title with "I would rather discuss the content of the video then the title of it". I think most would assume the content and the title go hand-in-hand.
FWIW I don't care what you call it. But if you feel this is 'insider' and 'secret' WC information, well, I guess the title is the least of your concerns. Carry on!


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## tshadowchaser (Jun 19, 2015)

ok, so why are these things supposedly secret


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## Vajramusti (Jun 19, 2015)

Some videos are so bad- they should be kept a secret. Could hurt people if imitated.


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## futsaowingchun (Jun 19, 2015)

tshadowchaser said:


> ok, so why are these things supposedly secret



ask joy he's never made a video. I guess everything a secret to him..


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## Transk53 (Jun 20, 2015)

Oh goody, another one of these debates


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## Dirty Dog (Jun 20, 2015)

Folks, I'm going to suggest that you get back on topic and stay there...
The Wing Chun area has had an awful lot of bickering and off topic posts lately, resulting in a number of locked threads, points being issued, and bans.
Let's see if you can avoid getting this one locked, shall we?

Mark A Cochran
Dirty Dog
MartialTalk Senior Moderator


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## wckf92 (Jun 20, 2015)

futsaowingchun said:


> I would rather discuss the content of the video then the title of it.



were the questions he was asking you 'his', or were they scripted by you just for the purpose of making the video(?). Just curious. It (the Q&A) seemed a little rehearsed.


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## mograph (Jun 20, 2015)

Never mind!


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## geezer (Jun 20, 2015)

futsaowingchun said:


> ask joy he's never made a video. I guess everything a secret to him..



I know Joy. I haven't visited his class in a long time, but I'd like to do so again. He doesn't teach "secrets",  just good quality WC according to his lineage. I assume he doesn't do videos for the same reason I don't do them. In my case, those reasons would be as follows:

1. I've never done videos, never even tried. It seems like a lot of time and trouble. I prefer the old way of teaching and learning where the teacher works directly with the student.

2. I really don't want the grief. Look how people tear apart other people's videos. Sometimes with valid concerns, more often out of ignorance.

3. There are already plenty of videos out there to use. Most are poor. But sometimes if you know what to look for, you can find useful stuff. So why just add to the heap.

4. If someone wants to know what I do, they can contact me. But, unless something changes, like having a tech-savvy student offer to do the work for me, I can't imagine doing any videos soon. And if I ever do them, I don't know if I'd want them on Youtube for every troll to dissect. Just sayin'


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## JPinAZ (Jun 20, 2015)

Ok, to get back on topic.
Futsau, to give the chance that you are genuinely interested in discussion, can you explain the parts of the video where you feel you are sharing 'insider trade secrets' that we should be looking for? Also, please include a few time stamps in the clip we can fwd to to see what you are talking about. Or is the whole clip what you feel is insider info?
It also might help if you can clarify what you mean by 'insider' and 'secrets', who you consider to be an insider that the video is intended for, etc.


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## Vajramusti (Jun 20, 2015)

geezer said:


> I know Joy. I haven't visited his class in a long time, but I'd like to do so again. He doesn't teach "secrets",  just good quality WC according to his lineage. I assume he doesn't do videos for the same reason I don't do them. In my case, those reasons would be as follows:
> 
> 1. I've never done videos, never even tried. It seems like a lot of time and trouble. I prefer the old way of teaching and learning where the teacher works directly with the student.
> 
> ...


-------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Steve- my classes are not open except to students and invited visitors You are always welcome. And I don't recruit here. Today's lesson was about what to do to avoid going to the  ground and what t do  if you are going to the ground or are on the ground.Because a student asked me and the student does quite dangerous work.
I dont do videos - I  dont know how to them and further they wouldnt serve  my purposes..My learning and instruction has been hands on..


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## Kung Fu Wang (Jun 20, 2015)

geezer said:


> doesn't do videos ...


To me, the following reasons are why I do videos:

- I have learned many forms and many throws. After I have recorded it on video, If I forget my form or my throws, I can refresh my memory from my own video.
- I want to compare the same MA skill that I did 20 years ago, 10 years ago, today, 10 years from today, 20 years from today, ...
- One day when I'm gone, I want at least to leave a bit of trace on earth to prove that I was here.
- When people ask question, instead of trying to write 300 words to answer it, I can just put up a 10 seconds clip.
- When people claim that I don't train "internal", I can put up my old Taiji/XingYi/Bagua clip to prove it.
- When people said that I was bashing MA form training, I can put up my form clip to prove that I do understand form training.
- When I put up a clip and if people make comments, it gives me strong motivation to improve it.
- ...


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## Kung Fu Wang (Jun 20, 2015)

futsaowingchun said:


> I would rather discuss the content of the video ...


The concept to guide your opponent's leading arm to jam his back arm is a good idea.

When you use your left hand to grab on your opponent's right wrist, should you have your hand open to face

- your opponent (as shown in your clip), or
- yourself?

IMO, there is a big different here. If the opening of your left hand is facing to

- your opponent, when he tries to break your grip (against your thumb), his right arm will put your left arm to be on the outside and on the bottom of his right arm. This will open your centerline for his attack.
- yourself, when he tries to break your grip (against your thumb), his right arm will put your left arm to be on the inside and on the top of his right arm. This will open his centerline for your attack.

It's very easy to test this by using your left hand to grab on your right wrist.

It may be better to address both situations in your clip so people can see the difference.


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## futsaowingchun (Jun 21, 2015)

wckf92 said:


> were the questions he was asking you 'his', or were they scripted by you just for the purpose of making the video(?). Just curious. It (the Q&A) seemed a little rehearsed.



That video was not rehearsed. I had no idea what my student was going to ask me. It should have been rehearsed it would have been alot better.


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## futsaowingchun (Jun 21, 2015)

geezer said:


> I know Joy. I haven't visited his class in a long time, but I'd like to do so again. He doesn't teach "secrets",  just good quality WC according to his lineage. I assume he doesn't do videos for the same reason I don't do them. In my case, those reasons would be as follows:
> 
> 1. I've never done videos, never even tried. It seems like a lot of time and trouble. I prefer the old way of teaching and learning where the teacher works directly with the student.
> 
> ...



Making  a video is not a requirement to validate your Wing Chun. It's up to you if you want to share. I prefer to leave something behind and some of my students now live very far from me so i use my YouTube channel as a teaching tool for my long distance students,or just as a reference for my new students  between lessons.


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## geezer (Jun 22, 2015)

futsaowingchun said:


> Making  a video is not a requirement to validate your Wing Chun. It's up to you if you want to share. I prefer to leave something behind and some of my students now live very far from me so i use my YouTube channel as a teaching tool for my long distance students,or just as a reference for my new students  between lessons.



All good points. Eventually I'll probably have to get off my lazy backside and start making videos for personal use. I'm not at all keen on posting them on youtube though. Too much grief.


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## wckf92 (Jun 22, 2015)

geezer said:


> I'm not at all keen on posting them on youtube though. Too much grief.



I've seen some videos on YouTube where the author can "disable comments"(?)... perhaps that helps limit the amount of grief.  Just a thought.


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## Xue Sheng (Jun 22, 2015)

geezer said:


> All good points. Eventually I'll probably have to get off my lazy backside and start making videos for personal use. I'm not at all keen on posting them on youtube though. Too much grief.



I'm with you on the YouTube postings, but I have been told there is a way to filter who sees them so they are not for the General public. So if you ever do go that route (hopefully I never will) there may be options for you to cut down on the grief


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## mograph (Jun 22, 2015)

Yep -- you can make your YouTube videos "unlisted" or "private."


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## Eric_H (Jun 22, 2015)

Funny that the OP should be so offended, especially after he was talking some yang on my association's videos before they ended up disabling the comments.

What goes around comes around mate.


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## wckf92 (Jun 22, 2015)

Eric_H said:


> Funny that the OP should be so offended, especially after he was talking some yang on my association's videos before they ended up disabling the comments.
> 
> What goes around comes around mate.



Hmmm..... haha karma (?) perhaps?


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## Kung Fu Wang (Jun 22, 2015)

wckf92 said:


> I've seen some videos on YouTube where the author can "disable comments"(?)... perhaps that helps limit the amount of grief.  Just a thought.


Sometime the negative comments can help you more than the positive comments can. It helps you to look at something from a different angle. It's just like a mirror that you can see yourself.

If everybody just said:

- excellent clip,
- good job, keep going.
- I love it. Thanks for sharing.
- ...

Pretty soon you may build up a big head that you won't even recognize yourself.

I have received a lot of negative comments from my "rhino guard" clip. It forces me to test it more against people from other styles in order to draw my final conclusion. If people just said, "I don't like it" without giving any reasons, I probably just ignore it because no valuable information can be obtained from those comments.


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## Jake104 (Jun 22, 2015)

wckf92 said:


> I've seen some videos on YouTube where the author can "disable comments"(?)... perhaps that helps limit the amount of grief.  Just a thought.


That is what I do. I could careless what anonymous nobody's think on Youtube.


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## Jake104 (Jun 22, 2015)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> Sometime the negative comments can help you more than the positive comments can. It helps you to look at something from a different angle. It's just like a mirror that you can see yourself.
> 
> If everybody just said:
> 
> ...


I think if you are not advertising or promoting yourself with these videos. Than the criticisms could turn into discussions. Who knows you may learn I may learn from information being shared. Otherwise if video is being presented in a "I know everything" way. It turns into you defending how great you are. I'd like to see some discussion. Like why you think these are insider secrets? Someone said it before. The secrets in MA are right in front of us, out in the open like they should be.


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## futsaowingchun (Jun 23, 2015)

geezer said:


> All good points. Eventually I'll probably have to get off my lazy backside and start making videos for personal use. I'm not at all keen on posting them on youtube though. Too much grief.



i would like to see your wing chun.


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## futsaowingchun (Jun 23, 2015)

Jake104 said:


> I think if you are not advertising or promoting yourself with these videos. Than the criticisms could turn into discussions. Who knows you may learn I may learn from information being shared. Otherwise if video is being presented in a "I know everything" way. It turns into you defending how great you are. I'd like to see some discussion. Like why you think these are insider secrets? Someone said it before. The secrets in MA are right in front of us, out in the open like they should be.



Ok, the title of the video was used to raise a bit of an eyebrow. It was done intentional,and I wanted to see  what the effect would be. The effect was what I though it would be..Also,when I made the video I did not know what to call it so it was a bit " tongue in cheek." at the time.


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## Phobius (Jun 23, 2015)

I for one thought it was nice to see this video. It displayed some questions that was apparently important to your student based on your teachings.

Some of the answers may be obvious based on my own fairly limited practise up to this point while others are more interesting, but nonetheless any information sharing that is genuine to the point that it is not trying to sell an argument but rather explain your view of another persons conundrum. Feels very uplifting and friendly in itself.

So before people complain about semantics, this video is perhaps not sharing any secrets but still working opposite what people would call having insider secrets in its essence. He shares his own expression and interpretation of the art the way it fits his body and mind.


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## JPinAZ (Jun 23, 2015)

Jake104 said:


> That is what I do. I could careless what anonymous nobody's think on Youtube.



From a semi-anonymous somebody, it's typically  "I _couldn't _care less"


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## Jake104 (Jun 23, 2015)

JPinAZ said:


> From a semi-anonymous somebody, it's typically  "I _couldn't _care less"


Thanks.. I could just blame it on a oversight. But I'll own it. I guess if you say it wrong long enough it's still wrong? Haha. For all intensive purpose I'll have to double check my grammar more often... For all intents and purposes I'll try and do the opposite. Or vise versa? I don't know? .. Sad thing is English is my only language.


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## Tez3 (Jun 23, 2015)

Jake104 said:


> Thanks.. I could just blame it on a oversight. But I'll own it. I guess if you say it wrong long enough it's still wrong? Haha. For all intensive purpose I'll have to double check my grammar more often... For all intents and purposes I'll try and do the opposite. Or vise versa? I don't know? .. Sad thing is English is my only language.




sorry but had to do this... vice versa


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## yak sao (Jun 23, 2015)

Since we all seem to be piling on poor Jake.......'intents and purposes


Sorry , but it was a hanging curve ball.....I had to take it


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## Jake104 (Jun 23, 2015)

Man, I'm getting a good Lb.'ing here!


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## Jake104 (Jun 23, 2015)

Edit: Pounding


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## Jake104 (Jun 23, 2015)

Tez3 said:


> sorry but had to do this... vice versa


It's ok you've kicked me when I was down before. Remember piers vs peers?! Lol.


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## Tez3 (Jun 23, 2015)

Jake104 said:


> It's ok you've kicked me when I was down before. Remember piers vs peers?! Lol.



I just think it's my duty to teach you lot how to speak and write the Queen's English....... so you can all speak like wot I do.


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## Vajramusti (Jun 23, 2015)

Tez3 said:


> I just think it's my duty to teach you lot how to speak and write the Queen's English....... so you can all speak like wot I do.


 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------I used to once upona time but  my Oklahoma years changed me, fer shore-yall hear?


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## yak sao (Jun 23, 2015)

Tez3 said:


> I just think it's my duty to teach you lot how to speak and write the Queen's English....... so you can all speak like wot I do.



Good grief....you even write with an accent !


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## Jake104 (Jun 23, 2015)

Tez3 said:


> I just think it's my duty to teach you lot how to speak and write the Queen's English....... so you can all speak like wot I do.


At least I can say I'am learning to speak proper Queens English. Even though I'm not from Queens. I'm not from New York or the east coast. Pho geta boutit!. Wait you're from the country of London? On the continent of the UK? JK now I'm really looking smart?


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## Jake104 (Jun 23, 2015)

There is so much wrong with what I've said in this thread. Please forgive me? At least hopefully what I lack in intellect, I make up with wit? Plus I'm a great guy dang it!


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## Tez3 (Jun 24, 2015)

Jake104 said:


> There is so much wrong with what I've said in this thread. Please forgive me? At least hopefully what I lack in intellect, I make up with wit? Plus I'm a great guy dang it!




We will probably get our knuckles rapped for a massive 'off topic' but sometimes a bit of light relief is very much needed to dissipate the ill feeling that sometimes creeps up on threads so don't apologise for being witty! 
Perhaps it will continue on topic but with a lighter touch now thanks to you.


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## Transk53 (Jun 24, 2015)

Jake104 said:


> At least I can say I'am learning to speak proper Queens English. Even though I'm not from Queens. I'm not from New York or the east coast. Pho geta boutit!. Wait you're from the country of London? On the continent of the UK? JK now I'm really looking smart?



Don't worry about it, no one in England speaks like the Queen, the Welsh do  Yeah no one else will get either. It is a shame that the Wing Chun threads descend into chaos because of narrow minded views. If a person has to worry about a linage as being a prim and proper way, then they frankly need help. Life is too short and serious to worry about such things. History is history according to the one.


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## yak sao (Jun 24, 2015)

Transk53 said:


> It is a shame that the Wing Chun threads descend into chaos because of narrow minded views. If a person has to worry about a linage as being a prim and proper way, then they frankly need help. Life is too short and serious to worry about such things. History is history according to the one.



Yea, Wing Chun people tend to do a lot of in fighting, no pun intended....well maybe a little intended.

Because WC is principle based, it follows a certain set of rules. Some of these rules are essential principles and must be adhered to in order to say one is practicing proper WC.
Others are non-essential, and more peripheral in nature, leaving room for interpretation. We should be able to agree on the essentials and agree to disagree on the non-essentials....but seriously, who's going to do that???????


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## Xue Sheng (Jun 24, 2015)

yak sao said:


> Yea, Wing Chun people tend to do a lot of in fighting, no pun intended....well maybe a little intended.
> 
> Because WC is principle based, it follows a certain set of rules. Some of these rules are essential principles and must be adhered to in order to say one is practicing proper WC.
> Others are non-essential, and more peripheral in nature, leaving room for interpretation. We should be able to agree on the essentials and agree to disagree on the non-essentials....but seriously, who's going to do that???????


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## Danny T (Jun 24, 2015)

yak sao said:


> We should be able to agree on the essentials and agree to disagree on the non-essentials....


No, no, no... I disagree to agree. And if your WC training was any good you would know that in any WC discussion disagreement is essential!!


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## yak sao (Jun 24, 2015)

Danny T said:


> No, no, no... I disagree to agree. And if your WC training was any good you would know that in any WC discussion disagreement is essential!!




I'm not sure whether I agree or disagree with what you just said


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## Transk53 (Jun 24, 2015)

Yeah, but based who's principles. They change from person to person. So what is the point in debating something that is not going to be debated, just based on a set of principles that are not open to interpretation, but obviously are lol. Dear oh dear.


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## Xue Sheng (Jun 24, 2015)

yak sao said:


> I'm not sure whether I agree or disagree with what you just said



Well I agree to disagree with your not being able to agree or disagree... and I completely disagree with what I just said


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## Xue Sheng (Jun 24, 2015)

Transk53 said:


> Yeah, but based who's principles. They change from person to person. So what is the point in debating something that is not going to be debated, just based on a set of principles that are not open to interpretation, but obviously are lol. Dear oh dear.



There are certain basic principles that make Wing Chun (or any specific style for that matter) what it is. Go away from those basic principles and you have something that is no longer Wing Chun


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## Vajramusti (Jun 24, 2015)

Xue Sheng said:


> There are certain basic principles that make Wing Chun (or any specific style for that matter) what it is. Go away from those basic principles and you have something that is no longer Wing Chun


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Without central principles a good art like wing chun is just a word


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## Transk53 (Jun 24, 2015)

Xue Sheng said:


> There are certain basic principles that make Wing Chun (or any specific style for that matter) what it is. Go away from those basic principles and you have something that is no longer Wing Chun



Exactly. It is all Wing Chun. So if I get this right, the Wing Chun mentioned is Wing Chun according to whom says it is because it the basic basic principles. Fair enough. The linages that seem to veer away from those basic principles (again if I have this right) are not considred traditional Wing Chun. Fair enough, but who has the right around here to say yay or nay. It is like saying that geezers collie is not the same breed just because the other collie has a black spot. Same breed but not the same tradition. Same principle of genetics because both are collies.


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## Eric_H (Jun 24, 2015)

Transk53 said:


> It is like saying that geezers collie is not the same breed just because the other collie has a black spot. Same breed but not the same tradition. Same principle of genetics because both are collies.



My teacher used to have a saying "If I give you a horse don't give me back a mule." Some principles aren't up for interpretation


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## Transk53 (Jun 24, 2015)

Eric_H said:


> My teacher used to have a saying "If I give you a horse don't give me back a mule." Some principles aren't up for interpretation



Yeah I agree. Just seems like some members believe they are.

_a fundamental truth or proposition that serves as the foundation for a system of belief or behaviour *or for a chain of reasoning.*_

Just saying


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## wingchunguy (Jun 24, 2015)

futsaowingchun said:


> This Video will reveal the inner workings of the Wing Chun system. What some might call, secrets of the systems!!



Right, Quan Sao, there are NO SECRET MOVES in wing chun. The only moves that people consider "Secret" are the ones they don't know because their CRAPPY MODIFIED SYSTEM doesn't teach it to them! I take TRADITIONAL wing chun, and it is a COMPLETE system, and has all the key elements that make wing chun work left in. This is NOT the case in modified. As the name suggests, it is missing elements like proper footwork (the circle inside the triangle), PROPER way to close the distance (using initial contact to either push the opponent's hand past his center, causing an opening you can exploit, or you can either maintain contact and close the distance or if contact is broken and you are close enough, ENTER IN and trap the arm and leg and finish the fight), and the TEN CONCEPTS, which, many of you do not know, is the GUIDELINE for the proper application of wing chun in a fight or self defense scenario. Without the ten concepts, your wing chun will be stiff, rigid and LIMITED IN IT'S RESPONSES! This is why ALL ten concept must be used EVERY TIME YOU DO YOUR WING CHUN! This allows flexibility in your response, and allows you to go up against ANY system, even one you have never seen before, effectively, as long as you adhere to the ten concepts, and know the whole system, including the aforementioned proper footwork and proper way to close the distance, using an ANGLED step with a body rotation square, to the outside of the attacking arm, putting you out of reach of his counter and putting you in a great position to counter. Those "secret moves" they are talking about comes from the third form, bil sau. It is the "EMERGENCY" form that gets you out of severe trouble when you either make a mistake, or you have been hurt, and allows you, hopefully, to go home in one piece. The reason why they say it's secret is because most do not get that far in their training to learn this, along with the locks and throws, weapons, and the new wing chun grappling system called Biu Jitsu, based on the same third form.


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## wingchunguy (Jun 24, 2015)

tshadowchaser said:


> ok, so why are these things supposedly secret


There are no secret techniques in traditional wing chun, only techniques not yet learned because of skill level, drive, or lack of dedication to the art.


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## JPinAZ (Jun 24, 2015)

wingchunguy said:


> ....and the TEN CONCEPTS, which, many of you do not know, is the GUIDELINE for the proper application of wing chun in a fight or self defense scenario. Without the ten concepts, your wing chun will be stiff, rigid and LIMITED IN IT'S RESPONSES! This is why ALL ten concept must be used EVERY TIME YOU DO YOUR WING CHUN!



So, if I have this straight, without _your_ preferred (superior?) method and without _your _secret 10 commandments - sorry - CONCEPTS that 'many of us' apparently do not know, all of 'our' WC is stiff, rigid and limited.
Lol, thanks, good to know. 

And I wonder how many of these people here you just insulted practice what you term as this 'crappy modified system'. Not a good way to make friends around here bro. Looking forward to the responses you get to that bunch of, well, I'll keep my opinion to myself...


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## wckf92 (Jun 24, 2015)

wingchunguy said:


> Right, Quan Sao, there are NO SECRET MOVES in wing chun. The only moves that people consider "Secret" are the ones they don't know because their CRAPPY MODIFIED SYSTEM doesn't teach it to them! I take TRADITIONAL wing chun, and it is a COMPLETE system, and has all the key elements that make wing chun work left in. This is NOT the case in modified. As the name suggests, it is missing elements like proper footwork (the circle inside the triangle), PROPER way to close the distance (using initial contact to either push the opponent's hand past his center, causing an opening you can exploit, or you can either maintain contact and close the distance or if contact is broken and you are close enough, ENTER IN and trap the arm and leg and finish the fight), and the TEN CONCEPTS, which, many of you do not know, is the GUIDELINE for the proper application of wing chun in a fight or self defense scenario. Without the ten concepts, your wing chun will be stiff, rigid and LIMITED IN IT'S RESPONSES! This is why ALL ten concept must be used EVERY TIME YOU DO YOUR WING CHUN! This allows flexibility in your response, and allows you to go up against ANY system, even one you have never seen before, effectively, as long as you adhere to the ten concepts, and know the whole system, including the aforementioned proper footwork and proper way to close the distance, using an ANGLED step with a body rotation square, to the outside of the attacking arm, putting you out of reach of his counter and putting you in a great position to counter. Those "secret moves" they are talking about comes from the third form, bil sau. It is the "EMERGENCY" form that gets you out of severe trouble when you either make a mistake, or you have been hurt, and allows you, hopefully, to go home in one piece. The reason why they say it's secret is because most do not get that far in their training to learn this, along with the locks and throws, weapons, and the new wing chun grappling system called Biu Jitsu, based on the same third form.



You thirsty bro?


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## wckf92 (Jun 24, 2015)




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## Tez3 (Jun 24, 2015)

JPinAZ said:


> And I wonder how many of these people here you just insulted



I'm afraid it's not just on here, his diatribes against MMA people are very disrespectful and frankly quite nasty. Perhaps what we have is a troll?


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## Xue Sheng (Jun 24, 2015)

wingchunguy said:


> Right, Quan Sao, there are NO SECRET MOVES in wing chun. The only moves that people consider "Secret" are the ones they don't know because their CRAPPY MODIFIED SYSTEM doesn't teach it to them! I take TRADITIONAL wing chun, and it is a COMPLETE system, and has all the key elements that make wing chun work left in. This is NOT the case in modified. As the name suggests, it is missing elements like proper footwork (the circle inside the triangle), PROPER way to close the distance (using initial contact to either push the opponent's hand past his center, causing an opening you can exploit, or you can either maintain contact and close the distance or if contact is broken and you are close enough, ENTER IN and trap the arm and leg and finish the fight), and the TEN CONCEPTS, which, many of you do not know, is the GUIDELINE for the proper application of wing chun in a fight or self defense scenario. Without the ten concepts, your wing chun will be stiff, rigid and LIMITED IN IT'S RESPONSES! This is why ALL ten concept must be used EVERY TIME YOU DO YOUR WING CHUN! This allows flexibility in your response, and allows you to go up against ANY system, even one you have never seen before, effectively, as long as you adhere to the ten concepts, and know the whole system, including the aforementioned proper footwork and proper way to close the distance, using an ANGLED step with a body rotation square, to the outside of the attacking arm, putting you out of reach of his counter and putting you in a great position to counter. Those "secret moves" they are talking about comes from the third form, bil sau. It is the "EMERGENCY" form that gets you out of severe trouble when you either make a mistake, or you have been hurt, and allows you, hopefully, to go home in one piece. The reason why they say it's secret is because most do not get that far in their training to learn this, along with the locks and throws, weapons, and the new wing chun grappling system called Biu Jitsu, based on the same third form.



Biu Jitsu? Why Jitsu, that is not Chinese, its Japanese.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Jun 24, 2015)

Danny T said:


> No, no, no... I disagree to agree. And if your WC training was any good you would know that in any WC discussion disagreement is essential!!


I agree with you today, but I reserve my right to disagree with you if I can find any good reason not to agree with you in the future.


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## Xue Sheng (Jun 24, 2015)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> I agree with you today, but I reserve my right to disagree with you if I can find any good reason not to agree with you in the future.



I find this rather agreeable... in a disagreeable kind of way


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## Kung Fu Wang (Jun 24, 2015)

Eric_H said:


> My teacher used to have a saying "If I give you a horse don't give me back a mule." Some principles aren't up for interpretation


Confucius had said, "If I give you a table leg, you should figure out the other 3 table legs and give me back a full table.

When my teacher gives me a horse, I want to give him back a "flying horse - horse with wings". IMO, all "principles" can be expanded.

For example, the

- sticky hands training can be expanded into "clinch" training.
- wooden dummy training can be expanded into throwing dummy training.
- double Tan Shou can be expanded into "rhino guard".
- Bon Shou can be expanded into "crazy monkey".
- Fu Shou can be expanded into wrist grabbing.
- "protect center from inside out" can be expanded into "protect center from outside in".
- ...

A + B > A, and A + B still have everything that A has.


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## Jake104 (Jun 24, 2015)

Xue Sheng said:


> Biu Jitsu? Why Jitsu, that is not Chinese, its Japanese.


Sounds like a poor attempt at marketing? I do "crappy modified Wing Chun" . I love it! The word modified actually sounds better IMO. Sounds very powerful and fast?

Example:
I have a "modified" Corvette with a Blower, tubbed rear-end on slicks with a wheelie bar.

Or

I a have traditional Corvette that's turd brown with miss matched tires and runs on 7 cylinders?

I don't know about you WingChunGuy but, the Modified example sounds way cooler?


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## wckf92 (Jun 24, 2015)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> For example, the
> 
> - sticky hands training can be expanded into "clinch" training.
> - wooden dummy training can be expanded into throwing dummy training.
> ...



Some of these are obvious to basic wing chun IMO. It doesn't warrant an "expansion". It already is / does.


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## Xue Sheng (Jun 24, 2015)

Jake104 said:


> Sounds like a poor attempt at marketing? I do "crappy modified Wing Chun" . I love it! The word modified actually sounds better IMO. Sounds very powerful and fast?
> 
> Example:
> I have a "modified" Corvette with a Blower, tubbed rear-end on slicks with a wheelie bar.
> ...



The group I use to train Wing Chun with had similar kicks from the ground, it was just not separate, it was all part of what came from their teacher who was a student of Leung Sheung


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## yak sao (Jun 24, 2015)

JPinAZ said:


> So, if I have this straight, without _your_ preferred (superior?) method and without _your _secret 10 commandments - sorry - CONCEPTS that 'many of us' apparently do not know, all of 'our' WC is stiff, rigid and limited.
> Lol, thanks, good to know.
> 
> And I wonder how many of these people here you just insulted practice what you term as this 'crappy modified system'. Not a good way to make friends around here bro. Looking forward to the responses you get to that bunch of, well, I'll keep my opinion to myself...



I've heard this guy's WC infomercial before....it slices, it dices, makes julienne fries, relieves gas, regrows hair, removes blood, grass and ketchup stains and whitens teeth.
I will just continue to wallow in my ignorance while I train my crappy modified WC and leave him to study the one true WC.


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## geezer (Jun 24, 2015)

wingchunguy said:


> ...and the *new* wing chun grappling system called *Biu Jitsu*, based on the same third form.



_Biu jitsu?_ Are you serious? 

Apologies in advance to all rest of you if I'm feeding a troll, but I just couldn't let this slip by.


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## Xue Sheng (Jun 25, 2015)

geezer said:


> _Biu jitsu?_ Are you serious?
> 
> Apologies in advance to all rest of you if I'm feeding a troll, but I just couldn't let this slip by.



You're not alone and I couldn't either, see post #74.... but I thing we should disagree to agree on this one


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