# What is your hapkido lineage?



## matt.m

All hapkido practitioners should be able to trace their lineage back to Choi, Young Sool.  I am just curious as to the lineage of the rest.  I know for Combat hapkido Pelligrini trained under Kwang Sik Myung.  Myung studied under Choi.

With MSK Hapkido, well Lee H. Park Learned Hapkido from Wha, Kwang Wha was a student of Choi's as well.  

So I am interested in what everyone else's lineage to Choi is.


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## Kumbajah

Kwang Sik Myung received his rank from GM Ji Han Jae. He did some seminar training with DJN Choi.


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## matt.m

Kumbajah said:


> Kwang Sik Myung received his rank from GM Ji Han Jae. He did some seminar training with DJN Choi.


Uh, sorry but no......you said it backwards.  He would go to Ji Han Jae's seminars and train under Choi.

Slight confusion, no biggie.


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## iron_ox

matt.m said:


> Uh, sorry but no......you said it backwards.  He would go to Ji Han Jae's seminars and train under Choi.
> 
> Slight confusion, no biggie.



Matt,

Please, do some research.  Myung lived in Seoul - Choi Dojunim lived and trained in Deagu.  Myung only met Choi Dojunim when he came to Seoul to train Ji.  

Please, please, for the sake of those out there trying to get a handle on Hapkido as a whole, have a better grasp of the research.  If you are going to speak with authority, have the facts straight.


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## matt.m

Well going with your reasoning Kev, Myung still learned directly from Choi. Even in He Young Kimms Hapkido Bible, with his own research.  He is a historian by trade.  So you are arguing about agreeing with me.  And by the way it is Tague, not Dague.

Lee H. Park who learned from Won, Kwan Wha was a one time friend of Kimm's and live with Won, Kwang Wha.  Won learned directly from Choi himself.

So thank you for you unknowing acknowledgement of my correctness I do appreciate it.


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## matt.m

In all certainty I know for a fact that Ji Han Jae, Won Kwang Wha and Kwang Sik Myung along with Suh Bok Sub were his 1st students, the others I am not sure of.  So this bickering doesn't have to go on Kevin.  Lee H. Park handed this info to GM Charles Hildebrand, Master Jeff Forby, and Master David LeGrande.  The following men I have known all my life and they were Lee's 1st hapkido black belts.


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## terryl965

matt.m said:


> In all certainty I know for a fact that Ji Han Jae, Won Kwang Wha and Kwang Sik Myung along with Suh Bok Sub were his 1st students, the others I am not sure of. So this bickering doesn't have to go on Kevin. Lee H. Park handed this info to GM Charles Hildebrand, Master Jeff Forby, and Master David LeGrande. The following men I have known all my life and they were Lee's 1st hapkido black belts.


 

Matt as you know trying to find linage within a Korean Art is like trying to pull teeth, every second is painful.


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## matt.m

terryl965 said:


> Matt as you know trying to find linage within a Korean Art is like trying to pull teeth, every second is painful.


 

A man with great reasoning is speaking.  It is true.  I talked with Dad today and he told me that more times than not Koreans initially be a 1-3rd dan, land in the U.S. and be grandmasters.  So for the one's that told the truth it makes it harder for them to be heard because they were the minority not the majority.  Hence now were are paying for it with so many McDojo's.


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## terryl965

matt.m said:


> A man with great reasoning is speaking. It is true. I talked with Dad today and he told me that more times than not Koreans initially be a 1-3rd dan, land in the U.S. and be grandmasters. So for the one's that told the truth it makes it harder for them to be heard because they were the minority not the majority. Hence now were are paying for it with so many McDojo's.


 
Matt your Father is so right, it makes it hard to believe, even when we know what the truth is.:asian:


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## Catalyst

We're World Hapkido Federation and we trace our lineage back to Dojunim Choi through GGM Kwang-Sik Myung. Whether GGM Myung studied directly with Dojunim Choi or whether he studied via GGM Ji, Han Jae - I'm not certain - I've read both.


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## zDom

matt.m said:


> ...  Koreans initially be a 1-3rd dan, land in the U.S. and be grandmasters ...



Ahhhh yes: the magical plane rides.

We should track down these wonderful machines. Would certainly make things easier than actually spending 50 years on the mat ...


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## Kumbajah

matt.m said:


> Uh, sorry but no......you said it backwards.  He would go to Ji Han Jae's seminars and train under Choi.
> 
> Slight confusion, no biggie.



No, actually I didn't. 



> Myung Kwang-Sik was born in North Korea but lived in Seoul for most of his early life.
> Myung started his martial arts training 1948, at the age of eight with exposure to Kumdo through his father, and in kong soo do through the tradition of the Yon Mu Kwan attaining his Chodan at the age of 12. Myung began his study of hapkido with Ji Han Jae in Seoul at the Ma Jang Dong location in 1957. Joining Myung at that time were also early hapkido practitioners Hwang Duk-Kyu (latter day president of the Korea Hapkido Association), Lee Tae-Joon, Kang Jong-Soo, Kim Yong-Jin (founder of the Ulji kwan) and Kim Yong-Whan. Myung Kwang-Sik later received lessons from hapkido founder Choi Yong-Sul.[1]



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myung_Kwang-Sik


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## matt.m

Catalyst said:


> We're World Hapkido Federation and we trace our lineage back to Dojunim Choi through GGM Kwang-Sik Myung. Whether GGM Myung studied directly with Dojunim Choi or whether he studied via GGM Ji, Han Jae - I'm not certain - I've read both.


 
This did Myug train under Choi or Ji, is a great debate fore sure.  However, I have known Wikipedia to have things not quite correctly.  I believe I will stick with Myung training alongside Won, Ji, and a few other in Seoul at the same time.

It is what GGM Lee H. Park passed down to  GM Hildebrand.  So, also read the Hapkido Bible by He Young Kimm.  It may help to see things a bit different.  Even Marc Tadeschi's book on Hapkido, the big hard back may help as well.

Best of Luck.


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## Catalyst

matt.m said:


> This did Myug train under Choi or Ji, is a great debate fore sure.


 
I agree with you. Personally, I don't get caught up in all of that - I'll leave it for others to debate.

When it comes to Lineages or who trained with whom, the point that is always brought up in our Dojang (and the Oral History that has been passed to me) is that Choi, Yong Sul had all of his documents, certificates, etc. stolen from a Railway Station when he was returning to Korea at the end of World War 2. Choi had no papers to prove any Lineage. However, people could readily see that he was an exceptional Martial Artist and he could "prove it on the mat" and they wanted him to be their teacher.

I keep this in the back of my head, as it helps give me perspective on Lineages. I'm much more interested in improving my skills so that I can prove it on the mat.


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## Kumbajah

matt.m said:


> This did Myug train under Choi or Ji, is a great debate fore sure.  However, I have known Wikipedia to have things not quite correctly.  I believe I will stick with Myung training alongside Won, Ji, and a few other in Seoul at the same time.
> 
> It is what GGM Lee H. Park passed down to  GM Hildebrand.  So, also read the Hapkido Bible by He Young Kimm.  It may help to see things a bit different.  Even Marc Tadeschi's book on Hapkido, the big hard back may help as well.
> 
> Best of Luck.




If you look at the source for the wikipedia section I quoted, it is the Hapkido Bible - 

1.Hapkido (alternately The Hapkido Bible). Andrew Jackson Press, Baton Rouge, Louisiana 1991

I'm not saying he didn't do some seminar training with Choi - but his rank comes from Ji - up to his 9th dan. 1986 certificate # 85-001


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## hapkidonet

Choi Young Sul > Ji Han Jae > Merril Jung > Marc Tedeschi > Erik Medeiros > me, a humble student.


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## Zendokan

Choi Young Sul > Ji Han Jae > Kim Soo Bong > Leonard vranken > me


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## Chris from CT

matt.m said:


> So I am interested in what everyone else's lineage to Choi is.


 
Choi, Yong-sul > Lim, Hyun-soo > Me


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## iron_ox

matt.m said:


> And by the way it is Tague, not Dague.



Its actually Daegu, according to the people who live there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daegu

http://english.daegu.go.kr/

Although maybe you can enlighten me from your last visit there. Although, just maybe, the Choi Yong Sul Dojunim, whose students I trained with in Daegu for the last several years has a counterpart from Tague?  Who knows?


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## Kwanjang

Let's see, I did study for while with...  Master, Mike Morton. A true Jedi Master.


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## terrylamar

Choi, Yong Sul > Hwang, Jong Yeon > Hall, John P. > Me.

I do not know much about Hwang, Jong Yeon.  I remember seeing his name as a student of Choi, Yong Sul in a magazine oabout the history of Hapkido many years ago.

I have a certificate issued by The Korea Hapkido Yeon Mu Kwan.  Does anyone know anything about Jong Yeon Hwang, or his organization?


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## Traditionalist

I don't want to ruffle any feahers but a lot of what Myung claims about himself is "according to Myung". He's excellent on Hapkido history and I definitely recommend his 'Hapkido' book for that. I know for a fact the some of the people he claims were his instructor he never studied under. His philosophy is if you believe in someone teachings or along that lines then you can claim they were your instructor. Which is bogus. I like Gene Lebell and I love what he teaches but I would never claim he was my instructor. I just wanted to through that in to show we can't always believe what we read especially if someone is writing about themselves.


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## zDom

Traditionalist said:


> ... we can't always believe what we read especially if someone is writing about themselves.



Ain't that the truth. Especially when it comes to books on hapkido history.


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## howard

Traditionalist said:


> Myung... (is) excellent on Hapkido history...


Just a moment...

Isn' he one of the ones who used to talk about Hapkido being 2,000 years old and passed down through generations of monks, or something equally nonsensical?


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## Traditionalist

Traditionalist said:


> I don't want to ruffle any feahers but a lot of what Myung claims about himself is "according to Myung". He's excellent on Hapkido history and I definitely recommend his 'Hapkido' book for that. I know for a fact the some of the people he claims were his instructor he never studied under. His philosophy is if you believe in someone teachings or along that lines then you can claim they were your instructor. Which is bogus. I like Gene Lebell and I love what he teaches but I would never claim he was my instructor. I just wanted to through that in to show we can't always believe what we read especially if someone is writing about themselves.


 

I meant Kimm. I was so wrapped up in Myong I put him down but Kimm actually wrote the Hapkido bible. Sorry for my mistake.


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## Traditionalist

howard said:


> Just a moment...
> 
> Isn' he one of the ones who used to talk about Hapkido being 2,000 years old and passed down through generations of monks, or something equally nonsensical?


 

He doesn't say Hapkido is 2000 years old he talks about the orgins of Hapkido and what in history grew to be Hapkido and the Korean history.


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## howard

Traditionalist said:


> ...he talks about the orgins of Hapkido and what in history grew to be Hapkido and the Korean history.



What does he say about the Korean history?

I ask because the original history of Choi Yong Sul's art is Japanese. All the kicking, meditation, etc. came later, from Choi's students. Choi himself learned a form of Aikijujutsu in Japan. The core locking/throwing/pinning techniques of Hapkido are Japanese in origin.


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## spud

Let me see if this is correct, someone posts a new thread under any title you like in the HKD section of any forum & the following "rules" fall into place every single time.

1) Thread is started.

2) Regardless of starting point ends in, historical, political or personal flame war.

3) War intensity steadily increases.

4) One side or the other either leaves thread, has thread locked, or   continually brings other issues in to build a case which is then countered in the same manner.

5) Several other people try to be to voice of reason to either become slightly crispy around the edges or befriended by one side or the other (he's on my team).

6) In the end everyone agrees to disagree & all concerned have a group hug.


Did i miss out anything?

Sorry if this comes across a little sarcastic but personally i don't give a rats who did what when with whom.  After almost 30 years of hearing this political one up man ship i care about one thing, what happens on the matt's, end of story.  The Koreans have no one to blame but themselves that the history of this fantastic arts is nothing but a joke in the eyes of the general martial arts community.

I have more meaningful conversations & get more respectful comments regarding HKD from people who do other arts & who actually hold the style in higher regard than from HKD practitioners themselves.

We talk about the politics of the past yet what are we doing today if not repeating history in all its many glorious flavors?

Time for this art to grow up, step out of the naughty corner & take its rightful place amongst it peers in the martial arts community as a collective.

This is not directed towards any one single person but please feel free to take it personally if YOU decide to do so.

Now please feel free to try & flame me to death, after so many years  i think i have a layer of abspestos rather than skin anyway, so good luck that.


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## Traditionalist

howard said:


> What does he say about the Korean history?
> 
> I ask because the original history of Choi Yong Sul's art is Japanese. All the kicking, meditation, etc. came later, from Choi's students. Choi himself learned a form of Aikijujutsu in Japan. The core locking/throwing/pinning techniques of Hapkido are Japanese in origin.


 
I got that book at home. I see if I can get some exact quotes and post them. You are right though that Choi first learned martial arts in Japan and used a lot of what he learned their to create Hapkido. 

And my comment to Spud is whether some of us are fuzzy on the history or know a little more we are all Hapkido and very proud of it. So our debating is more like a family just trying to get our story told. And you should care about the history of Hapkido (if that is your art and first love) because it gives you what the art is about and shows why Hapkido is a dominant art even if we are in the naughty corner. We hapkido, like most other arts, think our art is the best and will stick by one another even if we do disagree on a few points. And I think being a Korean art, especially Hapkido, we don't want to be a collective with other arts. Why should we when we have everything already. Kicking, punching, throwing, falling, grappling, arm and joint locks, weapons, defense against weapons, I'm sure there is more but hopefull you get the point.


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## spud

Hello & thank you for your comments Traditionalist,

I think you may have quickly read my post & not had enough time to digest it properly prior to putting your thoughts together, we all do it from time to time so no biggy. I&#8217;ll try to explain a little better in future & also clarify a few points you commented on in response to the above.

&#8220;Fuzzy on the history&#8221;, 
There is no definitive consensus on the history to date that I&#8217;m aware of & I think most of us are pretty much agreed no that one point. Each person needs to decide for themselves what they believe to be to most accurate sources & move on from their.

&#8220;Proud of it&#8221;,
Personal or collective pride in the art is one thing but personally I feel ashamed when it comes to the state of affairs regarding record keeping of & or reported history of our art, it is a total train wreck.

&#8220;Debating&#8221;,
Once again depending on the individuals point of view what one person feels is debating another may feel of something more or less extreme. Again personally I think this habit of &#8220;intense debating&#8221; over every little point is one of the main reasons HKD threads are far & few between when compared to most (but not all) the other MA sections in all the forums I visit.

&#8220;Family&#8221;,
Well I don&#8217;t think we&#8217;ll ever become classed as the Brady bunch but from what I&#8217;ve seen we come close to either the Osborne&#8217;s or the Adams (tongue in cheek, sorry couldn&#8217;t resist).

&#8220;Should care about the history&#8221;,
If you care to direct me to the one true source of the history of our art wonderful I would dearly love it & hold it with the utmost respect & reverence. Until such time I will continue to devote my time & efforts to what happens on the Matts as that is what the art is about in my personal view.

&#8220;If that is your art & first love&#8221;,
HapKiDo is indeed the art I love the most & have spent over 20 years teaching it with a passion, however I&#8217;m not one to blindly go around saying or thinking because I love it first it is the best, be all & end all as I love all the arts & have respect for each one. I can at least indulge my passion for accurate historical records within many of the other arts. 

&#8220;Dominant art&#8221;,
Sorry you lost me on that one. I would need further clarification to be able to put that into the context you were aiming for.

&#8220;Collective&#8221;,
When I say collective MA community I mean to me we are all &#8220;brothers&#8221; in the arts, we are all equal, and not that HKD should or needs to add anything further to what is already part of the system.
Personally I don&#8217;t consider HKD as the best art based on I do that style, I grew out of that mind set long ago once I started trying & training in many of the other arts available. Each & everyone has some wonderful aspects as well as some weakness however I stuck with HKD even after doing many other styles so that should tell you what my feelings are on which is my preferred art.

Hopefully this has answered a few questions although I&#8217;m sure it will also make some things a little more confusing but such is the problem of written communication on forums, it&#8217;s just so easy to be taken out of context or take others out of context also.


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## matt.m

Kwanjang said:


> Let's see, I did study for while with... Master, Mike Morton. A true Jedi Master.


 

Kwan Jang, I told pop you called him a Jedi Master. He just laughed and said to tell you hello. I told him after the Aug 2, tourney you sent your sympathies and he said "You were the nicest guy to ever get unfairly dumped on." I agree. But that is a total different personal conversation.

Funny thing about this whole debate is, no one can agree and everyone has to be right. I will stick with what Lee Hyun Park told the 2 jedi's GM Hildebrand and my dad.

Lee never lied, he just flat told it like it was and well I used to sit in the back with Ricky Park, his son, and watch his dad teach my dad. So ya know, people are going to believe what they want and that is fine. However, the thing is this: I know the truth, period end of story.

After all the best hapkidoists are the ones you have never heard of in Blackbelt or any M.A. magazine. Nope the best there is, the best there was, and the best there ever will be IMO are Lee H. Park, Dad, and Charles Hildebrand. Period end of story. I did ok in Greco and Judo but I will never reach the level of those men. It isn't about the shiny medals it is about the lifestyle of the person. So, dad taught me humility as a child and well people like Lee, Dad and Charles never talk about what they accomplished or can do. Humility is their best feature.

They are all Yoda in the Jedi universe. I am only Luke, meaning I have the best of intentions but make too many what I would consider mistakes. It is easy to use the past to help decision make for the present, however I have a problem sometimes letting ego get in front of the id. I will defend my students to a fault, however when they make mistakes I make them apologize. However, I will never ask a student do something I wouldn't do at all period. 

Oh, by the way Kevin, I am not entirely fond of your little quips and banter. I will say this. Let it go. I am a competition battle test champion in Greco and Judo. I went to the Olympic trials in 96, lost in the 3rd round. I had a broke rib and taped shoulder and tried anyway.

I have been living in and around the hapkido lifestyle since I could walk and well I would appreciate if you quit with the little stabs. They are certainly not appreciated.

Oh and Choi himself in an interview back in 82 said the following "I got off the train in Taegue." This is where Suh-Bok Sub was the grainery owner a Judo 2nd dan. He built a dojang for Choi to begin teaching.

So, I don't have to go to Korea pal, I am a PanAm champ in two events and World European Champion. I amassed a combination of 51 gold a 4 silver while competiting. 33 gold in judo 2 silver, 18 gold in Greco and 2 silver. Oh and by the way I am a great historian and geneologist by trade. I believe in what is true is true. So let's recount. Lee passed his knowledge to my dad and Charles Hildebrand. So I know Lee's character since I knew him for many years. He would rather get his head chopped off than to lie. So you know I am done debating with you and your crafty banter. And Kevin stop being a "Master-Baiter", yep I said it.

Not to add insult to injury here is something of interest:
*Hapkido Grandmaster
Choi, Yong Sul 
(1904-1986) *
Mr. Choi, the founder and Grandmaster of Korean Hapkido, discussed his personal history in an interview given during his visit to the United States in June of 1982. 
*The following interview was published by courtesy of Joseph K. Sheya.
Copyright by Joseph K. Sheya . All rights reserved. No part of this interview may be used or reproduced for any reason by any means without written permission. 
**www.sheyashapkido.com*









_Mr. Choi, under what circumstances did you come to live in Japan?_ ​
*When I was a child I lived in the village of Yong Dong in Choong Chung Province, Korea. At this time there were many Japanese people in my region because of the Japanese occupation of Korea. I became acquainted with a Mr. Morimoto, who was a Japanese businessman and candy store owner. Morimoto had no sons. When the time came for him to return to Japan he abducted me and took me with him to Japan, intending that I would become his son. I did not like this man and because of my constant protest and crying he abandoned me in the town of Moji soon after we came to Japan. From Moji, I traveled alone to Osaka. I soon gave myself up to despair and while crying and wandering aimlessly, I was picked up by the police. When the authorities found out that I had no family in Japan, they arranged for me to be cared for at a Buddhist temple. I lived there for about two years under the care of the monk Kintaro, Wadanabi. *​
_How old were you when you were abducted? _​
*I think about 8 years old. *​
_What circumstances placed you in the home of Takeda, Sokaku?_ ​
*While living in the temple, I was fascinated by murals of battles and paintings of famous martial arts scenes displayed throughout the temple. When the time came, Wadanabi asked me what direction I wanted my life to take. I immediately pointed to a scene on the wall depicting the martial arts and said this is what I want to be. Kintaro, Wadanabi was a close friend of Takeda, Sokaku and arranged my introduction to him. Takeda, Sokaku liked me and feeling great sympathy for my situation, decided to adopt me. Upon my adoption he gave me the Japanese name Asao, Yoshida. I was about 11 years old at this time. *​
_In what city was the Buddhist temple that was your home? _​
*Kyoto. *​
_In what area was Takeda, Sokakus home and dojang (school) located?_ ​
*His home and school were located on Shin Su Mountain in the area of Akeda. *​
_What was the nature of your training under Takeda, Sokaku?_ ​
*Takeda, Sokaku was the head of Daito Ryu Aiki-Jutsu. I lived in his home and learned under his personal direction for over 30 years. I was his constant student, and for twenty years of my training, I was secluded in his mountain home. *​
_Takeda was the teacher of the Japanese royal family. Were you personally involved in teaching the royal family? _​
*Yes, at that time I was my teacherss assistant in all of his instruction. While in Tokyo, we also taught high ranking government officials within the palace circle. Also, we traveled to various parts of Japan and taught select groups of people. *​
_Did you ever leave Japan with Master Takeda for any exhibitions or teaching outside of Japan? _​
*Yes, when I was about 28 years old it was arranged by politicians for my teacher and his most outstanding students to travel to Hawaii in order to give an exhibition tour. *​
_What was your personal status on this tour? _​
*I was the leader of the exhibition team under the direction of my teacher. *​
_How many people were on the exhibition team and can you recall the names of any of the participants? _​
*At the time of the Hawaiian tour there were five of us; Takeda, Sokaku, myself (Asao, Yoshida), Jintaro, Abida and two others whose names I cannot at this time recall. *​
_When you returned from Hawaii were there any significant changes in your life? _​
*No, we continued to tour and teach and at the same time I continued to learn through Master Takedas instruction. *​
_How was your life affected by the outbreak of World War II?_ ​
*World War II changed things in many ways. My teacher and I worked for the government by capturing military deserters that would hide in the mountains near our home. We would return these men, unharmed, to the authorities. The most significant changes happened toward the end of the war. Japan was losing the war and in a last desperation effort the government instituted a special military draft that called up most of the prominent martial artists of the time. These highly trained people were conscripted into special guerrilla-type units that were dispersed throughout the war zone. All of the inner circle of Daito Ryu Aiki-Jutsu were drafted except Master Takeda and myself. Most were killed in the final fighting of the war. *​
_Why were you not drafted along with the others?_ ​
*I was going to be drafted but Takeda, Sokaku intervened. Through his status and influence, he had me hospitalized for minor surgery. This stopped the process of my conscription and prevented me from being drafted. He prevented me from being put into the war because he felt that if I was killed Daito Ryu Aiki-Jutsu would be lost in its completed form upon his death. *​
_How many separate techniques had Takeda, Sokaku developed and mastered in his system?_ ​
*3808. *​
_How many of these techniques have you personally mastered?_ ​
*Shortly before he died, my teacher informed me that I was the only student that he had schooled in all of his secrets and techniques. *​
_Do you know the circumstances of Takeda, Sokaku's death?_ ​
*Yes, he ended his life by refusing to eat. *​
_Why did he do that?_ ​
*Japan had never before been defeated in war. Takeda, Sokaku felt that a great shame and loss of face had been perpetrated on his ancestors by Japan's defeat at the hands of the Allies. Being a man of leadership, he felt a strong personal responsibility in this defeat. Becase of this strong feeling, he decided that his only honorable path was to end his life. *​
_Did Master Takeda make any final statements to you before his death? _​
*He said goodbye to me and spoke of my long time desire to return to Korea. He bid me to do so. He was concerned that because of my position in his household and because of my Korean heritage, that I would be assassinated if I remained in Japan. Had I remained after his death to succeed him, it would have been dangerous. *​
_When did you return to Korea?_ ​
*I returned, with my household, shortly after Takeda, Sokakus death. *​
_Where in Korea did you settle? _​
*We settled in Taegu Kyung Buk Province. Here I established my first Korean dojang, and have made my home here ever since. After returning I changed my name back to Choi, Yong Sul and the name of my art to Hapkido. *
​*Won Kwang-Wha, was one of the earliest students of Korean hapkido under the founder of the art Choi Yong Sul and Suh Bok Sub. He was a pioneer of the art opening one of the first schools for the art in Seoul, the Moo Sool Kwan.*


Won Kwang-Wha also served as a personal secretary and body guard to Suh Bok-Sub's father, congressman Suh Dong-jin. Having first learned hapkido from Suh he later studied directly from Choi Yong-Sul. In 1962, when Kim Moo Hong opened up his Shin Moo-Hong dojang in Seoul he became one the instructors there. Shortly thereafter Won opened his own school the Moo Sool Kwan.
Being an older practitioner when he started his training, and having pragmatic reasons for studying the art, Won's Moo Sool Kwon emphasized what he believed constituted practical self defense techniques. Moo Sool Kwan emphasizes powerful and direct techniques and a greater emphasis on strength in responses rather than ki power. There is also a preference towards whole body throws than wrist centered joint locking throws.
Some of his notable students were Park Lee-Hyun, Kimm He-Young, Won Hyung-Dae
Won Hyung-Dae, his son, took over the management of the kwan upon his father's passing.

 Great Grandmaster Park was a cerified 9th Dan Black Belt by the World Tae Kwon Do Federation in 1985. He was a certified 9th Dan Black Belt in Hapkido by the Moo Sul Kwan Hapkido Federation and a 5th Dan Black Belt by the Korea Yudo Association. He was one of  the two highest ranking Moo Sul Kwan instructors in the world. In 1980, he was recipient of the Outstanding Coach Award at the 5th National Collegiate Tae Kwon Do Championships in St. Louis, Missouri.

       Great Grandmaster Park believed in and taught a traditional approach to the martial arts. Discipline, hard work and dedication brought him to a pinnacle that few others have reached. He dedicated his life to teaching and promoting the martial arts. His spirit is carried on by the Black Belt instructors that survive him and continue the tradition of Moo Sul Kwan.

  _Great Grandmaster _
_      Lee H. Park_

_      1969 - 1988_​ 


*
Great Grandmaster Lee H. Park was born in Korea on Dec. 25,1939. In 1969 Great Grandmaster Park moved to the United States and was employed at Southeast Missouri State University. It was at this time that Great Grandmaster Park began Moo Sul Kwan in Cape Girardeau.
Great Grandmaster Park was founder of the American Martial Arts Sports and Education Association, vice-president of the International Council on Martial Arts Education, and was chairman of the Teacher Certification Committee for the International Council on Martial Arts Education. Great Grandmaster Park had previously served as a Delegate At Large for the National AAU Tae Kwon Do Committee, and was a past president of the American Hapkido Association, past chairman of the Sub-committee Safety and Equipment Development for the National AAU Tae Kwon Do Committee and a past chairman of the Regional Board of Examiners for the American Tae Kwon Do Association.  
*


----------



## Drac

Good Post matt m....


----------



## iron_ox

matt.m said:


> Oh, by the way Kevin, I am not entirely fond of your little quips and banter. I will say this. Let it go. I am a competition battle test champion in Greco and Judo. I went to the Olympic trials in 96, lost in the 3rd round. I had a broke rib and taped shoulder and tried anyway.
> 
> I have been living in and around the hapkido lifestyle since I could walk and well I would appreciate if you quit with the little stabs. They are certainly not appreciated.
> 
> Oh and Choi himself in an interview back in 82 said the following "I got off the train in Taegue." This is where Suh-Bok Sub was the grainery owner a Judo 2nd dan. He built a dojang for Choi to begin teaching.
> 
> So, I don't have to go to Korea pal, I am a PanAm champ in two events and World European Champion. I amassed a combination of 51 gold a 4 silver while competiting. 33 gold in judo 2 silver, 18 gold in Greco and 2 silver. Oh and by the way I am a great historian and geneologist by trade. I believe in what is true is true. So let's recount. Lee passed his knowledge to my dad and Charles Hildebrand. So I know Lee's character since I knew him for many years. He would rather get his head chopped off than to lie. So you know I am done debating with you and your crafty banter. And Kevin stop being a "Master-Baiter", yep I said it.



Matt, you are acting like a petulant CHILD.  You tried to correct how I spelled Daegu - yet you have never been.  I sent you to the city own website, you show me an article written by an American.  And for what it might be worth to you, Choi Dojunim was not a literate man, his Korean was not even really understandable, according to those that knew him well, so he certainly did not distinguish between a D or T...

Get it straight kid, you wanted to try and throw that in my face, I simply demonstrated, with fact, that you might be wrong.  Grow up.  

Great, you wrestle and do Judo.  Good.  I have been involved with Hapkido for close to 30 years, and train under one of the 4 men that received a 9th Dan directly from Choi Dojunim.  Now, I HAVE NEVER CALLED either Your Father or his teacher a liar, but YOU post on here like you KNOW the only truth, when historically you are simply not correct.  Now, if you want to discuss history fine, but when you are corrected about something that is not correct stop thinking someone is bickering or baiting you - you have written several posts that are simply innaccurate - now, I don't retort FOR YOU - you are going to believe what you want, and I think that is fine, but it is unfair that someone that is being exposed to Hapkido for the first time read some of your material that is simply innacurrate. 

Sorry Matt, but you don't get it both ways - you want to correct me, then be able to accept my response, if it cuts to close to the bone, then maybe you might not be correct in the first place. 

Finally, if your best response to your mistake comes by having to resort to name calling, you have a lot more growing up to do.


----------



## zDom

An argument about English representation of Korean words?

Kind of silly, if you ask me (although no one has...)

There is a thread somewhere, I seem to recall, that discusses how the Korean consenont is actually between D and T (and probably varies in regional dialects)

in the same way we can't seem to agree on if it is a "J" sound or "Ch" sound

or

hard G or K sound.

I think a more important discussion would be, if my instructor is Yoda, and matt.m is Luke, who do I get to be?

I'm probably more of a Mace Windu, but I am really, really pale so that won't work out. Maybe Anakin, but, well.. I'm rather hoping I don't end up being a sith in the end, sooooo....

Definately not an Obi Won. He is too defensive, and I am more of an offensive fighter.

Maybe Qui-Gon!


/end defuse-with-humor effort


----------



## matt.m

iron_ox said:


> Matt, you are acting like a petulant CHILD. You tried to correct how I spelled Daegu - yet you have never been. I sent you to the city own website, you show me an article written by an American. And for what it might be worth to you, Choi Dojunim was not a literate man, his Korean was not even really understandable, according to those that knew him well, so he certainly did not distinguish between a D or T...
> 
> Get it straight kid, you wanted to try and throw that in my face, I simply demonstrated, with fact, that you might be wrong. Grow up.
> 
> Great, you wrestle and do Judo. Good. I have been involved with Hapkido for close to 30 years, and train under one of the 4 men that received a 9th Dan directly from Choi Dojunim. Now, I HAVE NEVER CALLED either Your Father or his teacher a liar, but YOU post on here like you KNOW the only truth, when historically you are simply not correct. Now, if you want to discuss history fine, but when you are corrected about something that is not correct stop thinking someone is bickering or baiting you - you have written several posts that are simply innaccurate - now, I don't retort FOR YOU - you are going to believe what you want, and I think that is fine, but it is unfair that someone that is being exposed to Hapkido for the first time read some of your material that is simply innacurrate.
> 
> Sorry Matt, but you don't get it both ways - you want to correct me, then be able to accept my response, if it cuts to close to the bone, then maybe you might not be correct in the first place.
> 
> Finally, if your best response to your mistake comes by having to resort to name calling, you have a lot more growing up to do.


 

You calling me a kid is an insult in and of itself, and the last time I checked "The truth is the truth."  Period end of story.  I never called you a name either, although after being called a "Petulant Child" is an insult I will not subscribe to you.  I find it more that "The people who are most wrong want to lash out and prove they are right."  I am not doing that.  I am merely saying what has been passed from Won-Kwang Wha to Lee, on and on etc.  So since the late 70's I have been around and training in hapkido.  Had I not gone into the Marine Corps and went to combat on 4 continents and 1 island, receiving wonderful things like horrible knees,, back, neck, shoulder, PTSD and Traumatic Brain Injury then I would easily be a 4th dan looking at 5th in hapkido, instead of being a tested brown looking at red.

So again, I never called you a name pal.  Sorry that didn't happen, but I do ask that you pay a bit better attention to what I say.  I am a bit tired of this boring back and forth with you.  However, Never ever call a Former Marine Corps Sgt. who has been in Combat and has a competition record like I do a child.  Just Don't, I find it funny that you tell me that I need to grow up.  Yet you did all the name calling, ya know ya did.   In my area of the country that is called being a back tracking weasel. Sorry if the truth hurts, but I can guarantee I have done more in 5 yrs. than you have accomplished in you life.  So let it go, just let it go.  But I am no child and I don't need to grow up.  I am doing just fine.  It seems you are the one with the complex issue.

The Star Wars refrences were to show not levels of profeciency, but rather mind sets of the people.  I know everything there is to know about being a world champion.  However anyone can teach, I like to equate that to sperm donor.  But only a select few deserve the title "Instructor, I like to equate that to a father or respected leader."


----------



## iron_ox

matt.m said:


> "Master-Baiter", yep I said it.



Come again?

Matt, I responded to you in kind.  And yes, sorry, your attitude is unfortunately, childlike.  You wanted to correct me on an issue that you were wrong about, and instead of admitting you MIGHT be wrong, you go off on this tangent...so, I'm am very humbled that you served in the Marines, I am sorry you were injured - it has clearly hampered your training.  And maybe you have accomplished more in 5 years than I have in my whole life - I leave that to you to believe, since you don't know me at all.  But what you don't know about the history and genealogy of Hapkido seems to me to be very overwhelming.

I understand that you have a set of beliefs passed on from your instructors.  Maybe this knowledge needs to be supplemented.  As I said, I am not interesting in baiting you at all, but I don't see the need to not fill in details you seem to be unaware of. 

I am sorry you seem to be upset by the child reference, I will not use it again.  However, please accept that the knowledge you have about Hapkido may not be the know all and end all, again, I am not calling anyone a liar - and you will be hard pressed to find a post here where I ever said that - but having traveled to the birthplace of Hapkido and trained with men that predate even your fathers teacher, perhaps you might want to accept that there is a larger knowledge base than that you post with.

Again, don't want to insult you, but I will continue to point out when you are wrong - it will be up to you to decide how you react to that.


----------



## Traditionalist

iron_ox said:


> I have been involved with Hapkido for close to 30 years, and train under one of the 4 men that received a 9th Dan directly from Choi Dojunim.
> 
> Kevin, I definitely don't want in this crazy debate between you and Matt, but I was just wondering if your teacher is Korean or American. I was just wondering and have no underlining to this question. I agree with ZDom anyway. Its probably just who pronuciates it at the time. Because I have seen posters with it spelled with a T but I belive Kevin that he has seen it spelled with a D.


----------



## iron_ox

Traditionalist said:


> iron_ox said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have been involved with Hapkido for close to 30 years, and train under one of the 4 men that received a 9th Dan directly from Choi Dojunim.
> 
> Kevin, I definitely don't want in this crazy debate between you and Matt, but I was just wondering if your teacher is Korean or American. I was just wondering and have no underlining to this question. I agree with ZDom anyway. Its probably just who pronuciates it at the time. Because I have seen posters with it spelled with a T but I belive Kevin that he has seen it spelled with a D.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I am under the direction of Grandmaster Lim, Hyun Soo, founder of the Jungki Kwan.  One of 4 men to receive a 9th Dan from Choi, Yong Sul.
> 
> 
> Please understand, the ONLY reason I responded to the issue of the spelling of Daegu is because i was corrected by someone who has never ever been there - and I am still not sure why that "correction" was needed - so I indicated that the city themselves use a D and provided the wiki link that shows that BOTH have been used, however, the D version is the one used by the Koreans.
> 
> Try to find Taegu on a current train map - you might be looking a while.
> 
> And, for what it is worth, I am not trying to "debate" anyone, I would like to share what I can about Hapkido, but I will admit, in some areas about this, I have little or no flexibility...
Click to expand...


----------



## iron_ox

Duplicate post, sorry.


----------



## Traditionalist

iron_ox said:


> Traditionalist said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I am under the direction of Grandmaster Lim, Hyun Soo, founder of the Jungki Kwan. One of 4 men to receive a 9th Dan from Choi, Yong Sul.
> 
> 
> Please understand, the ONLY reason I responded to the issue of the spelling of Daegu is because i was corrected by someone who has never ever been there - and I am still not sure why that "correction" was needed - so I indicated that the city themselves use a D and provided the wiki link that shows that BOTH have been used, however, the D version is the one used by the Koreans.
> 
> Try to find Taegu on a current train map - you might be looking a while.
> 
> And, for what it is worth, I am not trying to "debate" anyone, I would like to share what I can about Hapkido, but I will admit, in some areas about this, I have little or no flexibility...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is cool. You minds well stop arguing with mattm. because I think you are just beating a no win situation. I do have a question and don't take this the wrong way because its not meant like that. Do you know why your instructor wears a blue uniform and in some pictures it looks like its trimmed in white and others it looks pink. I was just wondering because I've only seen Judo gi's that are blue.
Click to expand...


----------



## zDom

From Wikipedia:

(The article begins: "Daegu, also spelled Taegu ...")

The sidebar has:

Daegu

&#45824;&#44396;

Daegu Metropolitan City

Hangul : &#45824;&#44396;&#44305;&#50669;&#49884;	

Hanja : &#22823;&#37041;&#24291;&#22495;&#24066;

Revised Romanization :	Daegu-gwangyeoksi

McCune-Reischauer :	Taegu-gwangy&#335;ksi

But again, how does this really matter?

Maybe we should drop this hijack discussion or cut-and-paste it to The Great Debate forum so this lineage thread doesn't get locked.

Because lineages are interesting and we could all stand to learn a bit more about our hapkido cousins.

One thing we all (hapkido-ists) have in common, I'm sure, is fierce pride in our lineage and style of hapkido.

GM Lee Hyun Park did not train directly under Choi, but I wouldn't trade his hapkido for training directly under Choi myself  no offense to Choi, of course, but:

I LIKE that Moo Sul Kwan hapkido has a strong Yudo thread running through it (both Suh Bok Sub and Park were Judo/Yudo black belts before beginning hapkido/yawara/yusool training; and my instructor also trained Judo before finding hapkido). The full circle throws we have are, no doubt, a result of this Yudo/Judo thread.

I LIKE that Won Kwang-Wha's experience as a bodyguard in a very turbulent time in Korea led to a very practical, effective form of hapkido that was probably well-tested in life-threatening situations. Park was respected by his peers as a dangerous martial artist. Self promotion may keep these folk from saying so today, but when he was alive, he was respected by all who knew him.

I LIKE that Kim Moo Woong added in dynamic kicking  I don't think I would be happy at all only training the kicks Choi brought back from Japan.

I may not go around saying it very often out of respect for practitioners of other hapkido styles, but I haven't seen a single style of hapkido out there that I like as much as that passed down from Park.

But then, I'm sure everyone pretty much feels the same about their style of hapkido


----------



## matt.m

Thank you Scott, 

You are always a better man of reason than I am.  I am too close to the source.  I have the hard convictions of my Scottish Clansmen.  My father is no different, neither is GM.  

They are indeed open minded as I am try more to be.  I mean how close do you have to be to Choi than Won-Kwang Wha.  I mean Lee lived with him.

I also apologize to you Kevin, I am not going to continue with this debate as neither will budge it seems.  So I accept your apology and we will just keep pressing on.

I made mention that I have accomplished more in 5 yrs. than you in a life time is for egotistical reasons.  I will count them out for you.  I went to Samolia, Operation Agile Provider, Haiti, helped rescue Scott O'Grady when he got shot down over Bosnia, I went to Albania, Israel, Tunisia, and Liberia.

When the dual helicopter crash happened over Camp Lejeune in 96I dove into the Atlantic and pulled dead Marines and Army personnel out of the ocean.

I was awarded 36 medals.  7 of them are presidential awards.  Being crippled and still making it as far as I did in Judo and Wrestling I believe is not too bad of a feat.

So again, I accept your apology and hope you accept mine as well.


----------



## iron_ox

matt.m said:


> Thank you Scott,
> 
> You are always a better man of reason than I am.  I am too close to the source.  I have the hard convictions of my Scottish Clansmen.  My father is no different, neither is GM.
> 
> They are indeed open minded as I am try more to be.  I mean how close do you have to be to Choi than Won-Kwang Wha.  I mean Lee lived with him.
> 
> I also apologize to you Kevin, I am not going to continue with this debate as neither will budge it seems.  So I accept your apology and we will just keep pressing on.
> 
> I made mention that I have accomplished more in 5 yrs. than you in a life time is for egotistical reasons.  I will count them out for you.  I went to Samolia, Operation Agile Provider, Haiti, helped rescue Scott O'Grady when he got shot down over Bosnia, I went to Albania, Israel, Tunisia, and Liberia.
> 
> When the dual helicopter crash happened over Camp Lejeune in 96I dove into the Atlantic and pulled dead Marines and Army personnel out of the ocean.
> 
> I was awarded 36 medals.  7 of them are presidential awards.  Being crippled and still making it as far as I did in Judo and Wrestling I believe is not too bad of a feat.
> 
> So again, I accept your apology and hope you accept mine as well.



Matt, of course.  

We will debate for a long time yet, but "always in the best possible taste". 

That was quite a 5 year span. Again, thank you for serving, that means a great deal to me actually.

I will attempt to be less abrasive in my comments, and we can try to come to some accords as I try to provide as many sources as possible for my arguments.

Thank you for your comments.

My lineage:

Choi Yong Sul, Dojunim - Grandmaster Lim, Hyun Soo - me.


----------



## zDom

iron_ox said:


> My lineage:
> 
> Choi Yong Sul, Dojunim - Grandmaster Lim, Hyun Soo - me.



What would you say are the definitive characteristic of GM Lim's (Jungki Kwan?) hapkido?

What doe "Jungki" mean? (something-inner power?)


----------



## iron_ox

zDom said:


> What would you say are the definitive characteristic of GM Lim's (Jungki Kwan?) hapkido?
> 
> *Well, to quote Grandmaster Lim, he would say it is Choi Dojunim's Hapkido; but I would say generally the "directness" of the technique, ther is no wasted motion and no exaggerated action.
> *
> What does "Jungki" mean? (something-inner power?)
> 
> *There are several translations I have heard, my favorite is "School of the Correct Path"*



Hope that answers your questions.


----------



## iron_ox

Traditionalist said:


> iron_ox said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is cool. You minds well stop arguing with mattm. because I think you are just beating a no win situation. I do have a question and don't take this the wrong way because its not meant like that. Do you know why your instructor wears a blue uniform and in some pictures it looks like its trimmed in white and others it looks pink. I was just wondering because I've only seen Judo gi's that are blue.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The blue uniforms are a relatively new thing.  I believe they represent both Grandmaster Lim's pen name (Blue Stone), as well as a simple distinction between Black Belts and Master Level.
> 
> Yes, Grandmaster Lim has a uniform with a Lavendar Lapel, generally now he just wears the white trim.
Click to expand...


----------



## zDom

iron_ox said:


> Hope that answers your questions.



Yes, thank you.

There are some, however, (me included) that would argue that Choi did not teach hapkido at all, but taught yawara, and that it wasn't actually hapkido at all until his students put their individual stamps on what they learned from Choi.

This is probably a discussion for another thread, though.

Thanks again for providing more information on your branch of the family tree!


----------



## Daniel Sullivan

I don't know my full lineage; I'm fairly new to Hapkido; I began in February and am still just a yellow belt.  GM Kim is a former ROK Special Army Hapkido instructor, and thats about all that I know.

Daniel


----------



## Mithios

Choi, Young Sool ---- Ji, Han Jae ---- Choi, Kyung ---- Me


----------



## Jinmukwan

Choi, Yong Sul - GM Lim, Chae Kwan - Todd Miller

Todd Miller
Jin Mu Kwan


----------



## Daniel Sullivan

Celtic Tiger said:


> I don't know my full lineage; I'm fairly new to Hapkido; I began in February and am still just a yellow belt. GM Kim is a former ROK Special Army Hapkido instructor, and thats about all that I know.
> 
> Daniel


I talked to my master this evening and asked him about his lineage.  I knew that his master had passed away and that his master's son had become the head of the federation he had been a part of.  Turned out that he had been in the International Hapkido Federation.

Well, I now have my hapkido lineage.  Kim Hee Wk - Myung Jae Nam - Ji Han Jae - Choi Yong Sul> Myung Jae Nam> Kim Hee Wk> Daniel Sullivan.

Daniel


----------



## JimR

FWIW:
Choi, Yong Sool > Ji, Han Jae > Kwon, Tae Man > Li'l, Ol' Me


----------



## Hapkiyoosool

Choi Yong-Sul, Ji Han-Jae/Han Bong-Soo/Myung Jae-Nam, Chang Young-Shil, Me. 

Grandmaster Chang studied under GM Ji (with occasional access to Choi during demos and seminars) until GM Ji moved to the USA and then fell under GM Han (until GM Han moved to the states), and then worked with GM Myung for a while along with Masuda Sensei in Japan. GM Chang started his school in Song Tan City, 1968 and has been there ever since. In the original picture of our dojang in Korea on the opening page of our website, you can see Masuda Sensei sitting right next to GM Chang. Imagine a Japanese instructor going to Korea to pay homage to a Korean Instructor. Pretty interesting. 

I do agree that our style does look more Japanese (due to movement, wearing Hakama, using Japanese Katana, ect.) than other Hapkido schools. It is probably because of the inter-cultural training and strong link to the Akikai(pre-war Aikido) and Aikijujutsu. Grandmaster Chang would travel and train in Japan to learn more of the origin of what we do. He found it with the Aikijujutsu as well with the Aikido players. Aiki and Hapki share the same calligraphy characters and mean the same thing but the Koreans (I find) are more modern real-world(aggressive) with the techniques as in: No stylized attacks. No robotic movements (which by the way build great muscle memory). Like doing a Hyung(kata) in slow motion. We do more modern and western attacks in our style while still practicing the more traditional stuff as well. It doesn't really matter so much how they attack, the truth is they have to first get to you. 

Anyway, the human body only twist certain ways, if it works, do it well to the best of your ability!


----------



## goingd

I believe many of the masters claiming to be direct students of Choi only trained with him through seminars. I won't say any specifically but Ji Han Jae has pointed out himself that many of them were originally his students.

As to my Hapkido lineage, I have no idea... To be honest I think my old Hapkido instructor trained with someone who trained with someone who trained with Grand Master Ji. So I'm pretty low on the lineage ladder. Lineage only becomes an issue to me when people lie about it.


----------



## dandred

Hello I'm new here!

My master is an 8th dan in hapkido, his master was Lim, Hyun Soo.

I'm in Korea.  :wavey:


----------



## Daniel Sullivan

Welcome to MT, Dandred!

Daniel


----------



## dandred

Thank you.

Do you study katas in your form of hapkido?

Also, why is hapkido a spelling mistake on this forum?


----------



## Daniel Sullivan

We do formal parnter katas, so to speak, but not solo kata.  Not sure about the spell check, but it would seem odd that the word hapkido would not be recognized on an MA forum.

Daniel


----------



## dortiz

*Hapkido* - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 
*Hapkido* (also spelled *hap ki do* or hapki-do) is a dynamic and eclectic Korean martial art. It is a form of self-defense that employs joint locks, *...*


----------



## dandred

Daniel Sullivan said:


> We do formal parnter katas, so to speak, but not solo kata.  Not sure about the spell check, but it would seem odd that the word hapkido would not be recognized on an MA forum.
> 
> Daniel



I would have Pmed this but there is no option under your name......

I study..... 


Monday..  Gonbop. basically sequences of kicks strikes and blocks, I'm still under my first dan so the moves only number under 20 in each sequence. 
Some of the 3rd dan people have over 75 to remember!!!

Tuesday.... punching and striking with lots of effort on posture.

Wednesday.... kicking,  hard work for me...

Thursday..... combos of punching and kicking 

Friday....... Sometimes sparing, sometimes heavy training. 

Everyday is half self defence, that is what I love!!!


----------



## dandred

dortiz said:


> *Hapkido* - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> *Hapkido* (also spelled *hap ki do* or hapki-do) is a dynamic and eclectic Korean martial art. It is a form of self-defense that employs joint locks, *...*




Yes! It's just that I'm using firefox......... I forgot!!!! :embarrassed: !!!!


----------



## howard

dandred said:


> My master is an 8th dan in hapkido, his master was Lim, Hyun Soo.
> 
> I'm in Korea.  :wavey:



Dandred,

Are you in Daegu?

Is your teacher Master Rim Chae Kwan by any chance?


----------



## dandred

I live in Shihung!


----------



## howard

dandred,

Did Master Lim promote your teacher to 8th dan?


----------



## dandred

I'm not sure......

He has a hanminjok certificate with his 8th don on it, along with his 5th 6th and 7th. 

He also has a 7th dan in gumdo.


----------



## howard

Dandred, thank you for your response.

Your teacher would have learned Jungki hapkido under Lim Chongsanim. The style comes directly from Choi Yong Sul himself, and faithfully reflects what Choi learned in Japan. You're a lucky student. :wink2:


----------



## dandred

howard said:


> Dandred, thank you for your response.
> 
> Your teacher would have learned Jungki hapkido under Lim Chongsanim. The style comes directly from Choi Yong Sul himself, and faithfully reflects what Choi learned in Japan. You're a lucky student. :wink2:



Actually I made a mistake he only has a 7th dan which he got in 2008, I was a little drunken when I posted last night to the details passed me a little, sorry for any confusion.


----------



## dandred

dandred said:


> Actually I made a mistake he only has a 7th dan which he got in 2008, I was a little drunken when I posted last night to the details passed me a little, sorry for any confusion.



Today I got kicked in the ball by a 16 year old and hit in the nose by my master!! 


I'm 30 and have only been studying for about 8 months, I get my **** whipped by the kids which is quite embarrassing, but then again they have been studying for nearly 10 years!!


----------



## Ty Hatfield

This is my Hapkido Lineage

Choi, Yong Sul
Ji, Han Jae
Lee, Yong Ho
Ahn, Hyeon Whan
Hatfield, Ty


----------



## Nothing

As far as I know:
Ji, Han Jae
Choi, Kyung
Me

I have never asked Mr. Choi too much about his teacher. I know he does not care for Mr. Ji because of a movie Mr. Ji did with Bruce Lee...of which I know nothing about - nor do I care.

Here is what matters to me. The man who teaches me is 65 years old and is very good at what he does. He is a good teacher and cares deeply about Hapkido. Also - I would hate to tangle with him as he is a tough piece of iron.

I love him and the art he teaches me. I read/study anything and everything on Hapkido I can. I can defend myself with my Hapkido and it has added to the quality of my life. I will be his student as long as he will have me. 

The rest is academic and really brings nothing of value to my life. Just my thoughts.


----------



## yorkshirelad

Ji, Ha Jae
Massan Ghorbani
Me

If you're ever in Ireland, get on the Dart (suburban railway) from any station in Dublin to Bray (Co Wicklow). Massan's dojang is right behind the Dart station. He was recently promoted to 9th Dan by Dojunim. When you see him in action, you won't be disappointed!!


----------



## CKB

My Hapkido linage is:

Choi Yong-sool -> Kim Jung-soo -> Shahram Lashgari -> Me.






DJN Choi Yong-sool with GM Kim Jung-soo





GM Kim Jung-soo, 9. dan. with GM Shahram Lashgari, 7. dan.





GM Lashgari and me (3. dan).

The Belgian Sin Moo Hapkido group has compiled this family tree for Hapkido. Might be of interest for those researching their own linage. 

Hapkido family tree:
HapkidoFamilyTree.pdf


----------



## oftheherd1

Regarding your Hapkido family tree, that is an impressive collection.  I did notice that Sung Moo Kwan was not mentioned.  That was founded by the late Lee Chong Moon.  I had the honor of studying under him in Korea, being promoted to 2nd Dan.  He taught me 3rd Dan techniques, but I never tested for that.  Nor have I been active in studying for the last many odd years due to life issues, including health.

I think like many arts, there are many Hapkido kwans that are started by relative unknowns (not including GM Lee), who may or may not be excellent teachers.  Often hard to keep up with all of them.


----------



## CKB

oftheherd1 said:


> Regarding your Hapkido family tree, that is an impressive collection.



It is not my work, but the work of the Belgian Sin Moo Hapkido group. But yes, definitely a great piece of work. There is an email in the pdf to send further additions/corrections.


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