# steven seagal



## moromoro

what rank is he in aikido? 

and who does or has he trained with i.e tomiki etc.???

does he still have regular classes??

what do you think of his movies??

in a few of his new ones i.e exit wounds and half past dead he seems to be using a lot of the sticky hands from kung fu.....

thanks terry


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## Humble artist

7th dan (besides the rumors of 8th)
Not with Tomiki as far as I know.My memory is probably off but I think he trained with master ?Isoyama? probably some 8th dan or above.
At least he had seminars and teaching,he has some high ranking students as far as I know who are teaching his style.
I liked them when I was younger,but I do not find them very special.
I think his kf training is little at best,tai chi perhaps and might have known wing chun ppl and maybe learned some.He tends to create his own brawls but in this movie (EW) it might not have been the case (have not seen it)


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## dutchboy

His acting could use some work.


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## progressivetactics

Despite his acting, he has created a large scale audience for a traditional martial art.  For that, he deserves respect.  He brought Aikido to the lime lite.  It was about time.  

I think most of us that liked the action movies like Rambo, Delta Force, etc. liked the segal movies, but it wasn't for his theatrical presense!!


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## moromoro

who graded him to 7th dan?


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## yilisifu

I don't know who promoted him, but he was an aikido teacher long before he became an actor.  I believe that he did actually teach in Japan for a time.

He was hired as a martial arts/fight coordinator for a couple of movies and that led to his debut as an actor...


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## RyuShiKan

> _Originally posted by moromoro _
> *what rank is he in aikido?
> 
> and who does or has he trained with i.e tomiki etc.???
> 
> does he still have regular classes??
> 
> what do you think of his movies??
> 
> in a few of his new ones i.e exit wounds and half past dead he seems to be using a lot of the sticky hands from kung fu.....
> 
> thanks terry *



 He taught at his Japanese father in-laws dojo in Osaka. His Japanese wifes father was an Aikido instructor as was is his ex-wife.
One of my students is a good friend of hers. She has invited me to go to her dojo if I am in Osaka since she has a keen interest in what my teacher does.
Segal was ranked something like 3rd dan by his ex-father in law but then on the plane ride coming to America got bumped up a few according to my students information.
From what I understand he borrowed a lot of money from his in-laws to make a dojo in the US then decided he wanted to become an actordumped his Japanese wife, didn't payback the money.....married Kelly Labrock to get his career going then dumped her once it got going and married someone else.
He was never in the Special Forces or the CIA or even in the military for that matter.


Personally I dont care for his character.


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## RyuShiKan

> _Originally posted by yilisifu _
> *
> He was hired as a martial arts/fight coordinator for a couple of movies and that led to his debut as an actor... *




He did the stunt coordination for a movie called "The Duel" with Glenn Scott. His student played Kubo in the movie.

Pretty bad movie but the stunts were not bad.


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## kenmpoka

> _Originally posted by RyuShiKan _
> *He taught at his Japanese father in-laws dojo in Osaka. His Japanese wifes father was an Aikido instructor as was is his ex-wife.
> One of my students is a good friend of hers. She has invited me to go to her dojo if I am in Osaka since she has a keen interest in what my teacher does.
> Segal was ranked something like 3rd dan by his ex-father in law but then on the plane ride coming to America got bumped up a few according to my students information.
> From what I understand he borrowed a lot of money from his in-laws to make a dojo in the US then decided he wanted to become an actordumped his Japanese wife, didn't payback the money.....married Kelly Labrock to get his career going then dumped her once it got going and married someone else.
> He was never in the Special Forces or the CIA or even in the military for that matter.
> 
> 
> Personally I dont care for his character. *


Oh brother I can tell you stories about him from couple of my female students that used to study with him. His Aikido was real good at some point before he became the reincarnation of a partial god. His Sixth Dan came from Aikikai. He has done a lot to promote Aikido tho. I don't care for his character as well. CIA, huh, he and Frank Dux together.  

:asian:


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## Infight

The most important thing Seagal did was Marketing of Aikido, i know it doesnt need it, but its ever good a free marketing isnt? Even the best MA need some promotion some times.


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## moromoro

hi  kenmpoka 


can you tell us some of these storiess


thanks 

terry


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## Chicago Green Dragon

Steven Segal studied with my old teacher Fumio Toyoda, Aikido Shihan when Toyoda Sensi was in Japan teaching before coming to the US. 
Also, when he filmed "Above the Law". Steven Segal was hanging out in our dojo in chicago. He could have gone anywhere Midwest Aikido Association but decided to come to ours and he was very happy to see our Sensi again. 

Unfortunately, Toyoda Sensi died the other year.

A great loss to Aikido and everyone too.


:soapbox: 

Chicago Green 
Dragon   :asian:


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## Jay Bell

> Personally I dont care for his character.



Bravo!


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## Chicago Green Dragon

I'm not that big of a fan of him too sometimes. But, I do get a laugh of how such a peaceful man goes out and kills every one the walks down the street with his mala....... lol


Chicago Green
Dragon    :asian:


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## Chicago Green Dragon

If you want to get a good laugh

here is a link i got the other day from someones post


http://atomfilms.shockwave.com/af/content/seagal3_final_conflict?mature=accept


There are a few Steven Segal cartoon shockwave movies someone made that are a total rip.

Enjoy

Chicago Green
Dragon  :asian:


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## Yari

Yeah that was cool. I enjoyed that alot.....


/Yari


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## moromoro

that is funny


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## Chicago Green Dragon

Does anybody know if steven segal is making a new movie ? 

or what he is up to now?

Thanks

Chicago Green
Dragon   :asian:


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## arnisador

The current issue of Budo Intl. (June 2003) includes an article on his ex-wife Miyako Fujitani.

The current issue of Black Belt (July 2003) includes an article on his student Haruo Matsuoka (a 5th degree black belt).


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## KenpoDragon

> _Originally posted by Chicago Green Dragon _
> *If you want to get a good laugh
> 
> here is a link i got the other day from someones post
> 
> 
> http://atomfilms.shockwave.com/af/content/seagal3_final_conflict?mature=accept
> 
> 
> There are a few Steven Segal cartoon shockwave movies someone made that are a total rip.
> 
> Enjoy
> 
> Chicago Green
> Dragon  :asian: *


 That was the funniest $#!* I've seen all month!!!!!!! Every martial artist should check that out!!!!!!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


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## moromoro

i got a copy of the foreigner on dvd while in the philippines it sucked i think what tom arnold said about him is true...


terry


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## arnisador

Tactical Knives (Nov. 2003) has an article on Ken Onion's Steven Seagal knife. (See also this thread).

It also says that Steven Seagal gives most of his money to charity and keeps relatively little for himself--just enough to live on, and to buy knives and guns.


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## Kroy

> _Originally posted by Chicago Green Dragon _
> *Does anybody know if steven segal is making a new movie ?
> 
> or what he is up to now?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Chicago Green
> Dragon   :asian: *



I hope not! His movies get worse all the time. In his first few movies he seemed to use just Aikido, now he's adding to much crap and it doesnt look good.


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## Kempo Guy

Steven Seagal started Aikido at the Orange County Aikikai under the late Harry Ishisaka sensei and received his shodan there (issued by Koichi Tohei). After receiving his shodan he moved to Japan and apparantly trained at Tohei Sensei's dojo (who at the time had just broken off from the Aikikai to establish the Kinokenkyukai), but later reaffiliated with the Aikikai. He was promoted to 5th Dan by his father-in-law (the head instructor at the time of the Tenshin Aikido dojo in Osaka). 

As for his sixth and seventh dan, they were issued by the Aikikai. After receiving his seventh dan he actually did a demo at the annual Aikikai demonstration that year (forget which year). I heard he was promoted to seventh dan because of his "promotion" of the art through his work... :shrug: 

BTW, Steven Seagal was a Karate student of Fumio Demura Sensei and received at least his shodan prior to his involvement in Aikido. 

FWIW, I have had the opportunity to train with Take-sensei (Seagal) and Matsuoka sensei (Seagal's highest ranked student) several years ago and found their techniques to be quite strong. 

KG


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## kenpo2dabone

... was by far his best movie. It was downhill from there. Oh and someone needs to take him aside and teach him how to run. Sorry I couldn't resist. LOL to Mr Seagal.

Salute,
Mike Miller UKF


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## Kroy

Oh and someone needs to take him aside and teach him how to run. 

:rofl: I was going to mention that.


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## arnisador

> _Originally posted by Kempo Guy _
> *I heard he was promoted to seventh dan because of his "promotion" of the art through his work...  *



Ah yes, the Elvis method.


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## jujutsu_indonesia

Infight said:
			
		

> The most important thing Seagal did was Marketing of Aikido, i know it doesnt need it, but its ever good a free marketing isnt? Even the best MA need some promotion some times.


 
Unfortunately, here in Indonesia thousands of young men flocked to Aikido dojo and train not because of Uyeshiba sensei's love and harmony philosophy but because "I want to become a bighero like Steven Seagal and get all those beautiful girls".


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## theletch1

jujutsu_indonesia said:
			
		

> Unfortunately, here in Indonesia thousands of young men flocked to Aikido dojo and train not because of Uyeshiba sensei's love and harmony philosophy but because "I want to become a bighero like Steven Seagal and get all those beautiful girls".


But that's the magic of the marketing...tons of people flock in, realize it isn't hollywood and quit and the ones that truly find a love for the art stay around and increase the ranks of aikido.


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## jujutsu_indonesia

theletch1 said:
			
		

> But that's the magic of the marketing...tons of people flock in, realize it isn't hollywood and quit and the ones that truly find a love for the art stay around and increase the ranks of aikido.


 
Well at least some stays 

I just hope that those who stays and get black belts doesn't strut around thinking that they are the next version of Steven Seagal


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## madfrank

Isn't anyone going to mention about him getting battered by Gene LeBell or backing down from a challenge by Bob Wall?

Steven


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## Southwell

Yes, I've heard bits and parts of both,does anyone know the whole story ?


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## terryl965

madfrank said:
			
		

> Isn't anyone going to mention about him getting battered by Gene LeBell or backing down from a challenge by Bob Wall?
> 
> Steven


 
 Does it matter if he back down or not, accepting all challenges are just in my mind Stupid. I believe he has the right to his ways.
Terry


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## Brad Dunne

First, I will state that Mr. Seagal is not that high on my list of folks that can act or being looked at as a role model, but on his behalf, not accepting a challenge was a prudent decision. If he took the challenge, what would it have proved? If it was just a sparring match, then it would prove nothing. I don't think Aikido players do much if any sparring, so one would assume that it would have turned into something along the lines of a real altercation and with that, nobody wins..........

As for the Labell encounter, I have heard.......repeat, "heard" from other's that it was not a "beat down" as folks like to elude too. Story goes that they were at some sort of seminar and were talking when Mr Labell came up behind him and put him in a full nelson. Two elements come into play here, if this story is true. First, being put into any hold by Mr. Labell is like being put in a vise, so people say. One would be hard pressed to get released, without some sort of injury happening to either party. Again, a no win situation for either party, but it did favor Mr. Labell for he was in control. Secondly, not being in an aware position that someone might do something to you, your guard would not be up/heightened, because you feel your not in a situation where you need to be aware. All in all, from this story, again if true, Mr Seagal was in a no win situation regardless.


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## madfrank

Brad Dunne said:
			
		

> First, I will state that Mr. Seagal is not that high on my list of folks that can act or being looked at as a role model, but on his behalf, not accepting a challenge was a prudent decision. If he took the challenge, what would it have proved? If it was just a sparring match, then it would prove nothing. I don't think Aikido players do much if any sparring, so one would assume that it would have turned into something along the lines of a real altercation and with that, nobody wins..........
> 
> *Now the truth.*
> 
> *He was bad mouthing off one of Walls friends putting down his MA so wall offered him out. *
> 
> *Then Segal bottled.*
> 
> *If you cant walk the walk dont talk the talk.*
> 
> As for the Labell encounter, I have heard.......repeat, "heard" from other's that it was not a "beat down" as folks like to elude too. Story goes that they were at some sort of seminar and were talking when Mr Labell came up behind him and put him in a full nelson. Two elements come into play here, if this story is true. First, being put into any hold by Mr. Labell is like being put in a vise, so people say. One would be hard pressed to get released, without some sort of injury happening to either party. Again, a no win situation for either party, but it did favor Mr. Labell for he was in control. Secondly, not being in an aware position that someone might do something to you, your guard would not be up/heightened, because you feel your not in a situation where you need to be aware. All in all, from this story, again if true, Mr Seagal was in a no win situation regardless.


 
*Not even nearly true.*

*I heard my version from one of LeBells students.*

*Segal was, as is he is well known in MA circles to do, going hard on his stunt men.*

*Unfortunately for him they were LeBells men.*

*So LeBell asked him if he fancied a one on one with him.*

*Fair play to him he did.*

*But he ended up unconscious and wetting himself.*

*Segal sounds like a jerk to me from all I hear of him.*

*And his grades are well open to suspicion.*

*MF*


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## Dan G

kenpo2dabone said:
			
		

> ... was by far his best movie. It was downhill from there. Oh and someone needs to take him aside and teach him how to run. Sorry I couldn't resist. LOL to Mr Seagal.
> 
> Salute,
> Mike Miller UKF


 
:rofl: Glad you mentioned the running...


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## ppko

madfrank said:
			
		

> *Not even nearly true.*
> 
> *I heard my version from one of LeBells students.*
> 
> *Segal was, as is he is well known in MA circles to do, going hard on his stunt men.*
> 
> *Unfortunately for him they were LeBells men.*
> 
> *So LeBell asked him if he fancied a one on one with him.*
> 
> *Fair play to him he did.*
> 
> *But he ended up unconscious and wetting himself.*
> 
> *Segal sounds like a jerk to me from all I hear of him.*
> 
> *And his grades are well open to suspicion.*
> 
> *MF*


I do not understand your reasoning for your post, if you know the stories why ask the question.  I had not heard the Bob Wall story, but the Lebell story I heard basically the same as what you said, but I was not there so I will not comment on either of them.  I have seen his (Mr. Seagal) Aiki and it is really good and he is a skilled practitioner and that is all that really matters, as to his character I have never met the guy, but I have talked to him on the phone, he seemed nice enough to me.


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## Shogun

since everyone's got Seagal stories, I'll do one I heard from Jason Delucia. back in early-1990's, Seagal put an ad in Black belt magazine. it said you could challenge him, in his dojo, but be prepared to fight to the death. Jason showed up to his dojo to accept the offer and Mr. Seagal never showed. twice.
I heard Rorion Gracie also challenged him, but this I'm not sure.


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## Jonathan Randall

terryl965 said:
			
		

> Does it matter if he back down or not, accepting all challenges are just in my mind Stupid. I believe he has the right to his ways.
> Terry


 
Hear, hear! I'm sure Mr. Seagal is a skilled martial artist. However, what I've heard of his personal life isn't complimentary. Still, I've never met the man and will reserve judgement as to what he is really like until (unlikely) I do.


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## tshadowchaser

Which is more important to this forum his personal life or his ability to pass on his art.  
I have never met him but know people whom have trained with him ( however briefly) and they all said his technique was good and that he tried hard to help his students do their best


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## theletch1

tshadowchaser said:
			
		

> Which is more important to this forum his personal life or his ability to pass on his art.
> I have never met him but know people whom have trained with him ( however briefly) and they all said his technique was good and that he tried hard to help his students do their best


Some folks will say that his personal life and his art are intertwined to the point that one has as much affect on his students as the other.  I'm of the camp that believes that the personal life only affects his students if they develop a personal relationship with the man.  I'm always very slow to get close to an instructor.  As long as his students are simply students and are learning what they are there to learn then his personal life can be seperated (to an extent) from his art.  Yes, there are times (see horror stories forum) when the personal life is too far out there to allow an instructor to simply teach an art but even with all of Seagals excentricities(sp) I still believe that his abilities within the art of aikido makes him a worthwhile instructor.


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## Brian R. VanCise

One thing is for sure with Steven Seagal is that he will always have
people who dislike him and people who like him.  This goes with his
being a celebrity.  As to the stories I have read on here, who knows
most seem second of third hand accounts so I will reserve my 
judgement on him until we talk in person.

Having said that I had a chance to watch a DVD on him put out
by one of his students and it was good.  Seagal certainly is an
Aikidoist who appears to be able to make his stuff work.  His size
and technique make him effective with what he does.

Brian R. VanCise
www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com


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## jujutsu_indonesia

Brian R. VanCise said:
			
		

> Having said that I had a chance to watch a DVD on him put out
> by one of his students and it was good. Seagal certainly is an
> Aikidoist who appears to be able to make his stuff work. His size
> and technique make him effective with what he does.


 
Yes sir this is what I have heard and this is what I like to hear. Mr. Seagal is certainly a competent aikido teacher or else the Aikikai will not give him that teaching license (shihan-menkyo).

however I think he should at least said something in his interview, something like "what I am doing in my movies is MOVIE DO not AIKIDO, MOVIE DO is to impress and entertain viewers, AIKIDO is to learn love and harmony. If you want to be like me go to Hollywood. If you want to learn Master Uyeshiba's art, go to Aikido Dojo". This will prevent undesirable elements to enroll to Aikido dojos thinking that they will be the next Mr. Seagal.


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## Brian R. VanCise

JujutsuIndonesia,

Hard to disagree with your line of thought.
I believe that most people entering aikido
schools here in the states are probably 
interested in effective self defense and 
spiritual enlightenment. Steven Seagal
is probably bringing in some who see what
he does and want to be effective in a self
defense situation. I do not believe a lot
of thugs are attracted to Aikido here in 
the states. I could be wrong though. I 
will let the experienced Aikidoist's comment
on that. 

Brian R. VanCise
www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com


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## jazkiljok

http://www.crimelibrary.com/criminal_mind/scams/steven_seagal/index.html


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## green meanie

Jonathan Randall said:
			
		

> Hear, hear! I'm sure Mr. Seagal is a skilled martial artist. However, what I've heard of his personal life isn't complimentary. Still, I've never met the man and will reserve judgement as to what he is really like until (unlikely) I do.


 
I agree. It seems to me the only thing this guy is guilty of is story-telling and believing his own press. Although I hardly support that kind of behavior, he isn't the first martial artist to go down that road. I do think his Aikido is the real deal though and if I ever had the opportunity to study under him I would.


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## swiftpete

madfrank said:
			
		

> *Not even nearly true.*
> 
> *I heard my version from one of LeBells students.*
> 
> *Segal was, as is he is well known in MA circles to do, going hard on his stunt men.*
> 
> *Unfortunately for him they were LeBells men.*
> 
> *So LeBell asked him if he fancied a one on one with him.*
> 
> *Fair play to him he did.*
> 
> *But he ended up unconscious and wetting himself.*
> 
> *Segal sounds like a jerk to me from all I hear of him.*
> 
> *And his grades are well open to suspicion.*
> 
> *MF*


 
Not saying I know all that much about the story as I don't to be honest. But surely if this is the version of events from on of LeBells student's then it's going to sound complimentary on LeBell's behalf? Seagal may or not be a tosser in real life, I'd have to reserve judgement unless i met him as I don't think you should believe everything you read in the papers. I've seen some demo footage of him doing his thing and he looks like he moves really well though. But then again, if you recorded (and edited!) me in the right way, I'd look like a great mover too!


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## madfrank

ppko said:
			
		

> I do not understand your reasoning for your post, if you know the stories why ask the question. I had not heard the Bob Wall story, but the Lebell story I heard basically the same as what you said, but I was not there so I will not comment on either of them. I have seen his (Mr. Seagal) Aiki and it is really good and he is a skilled practitioner and that is all that really matters, as to his character I have never met the guy, but I have talked to him on the phone, he seemed nice enough to me.


 
*I didnt ask about them?*

*I was expressing suprise no one had mentioned them yet.*

*MF*


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## madfrank

swiftpete said:
			
		

> Not saying I know all that much about the story as I don't to be honest. But surely if this is the version of events from on of LeBells student's then it's going to sound complimentary on LeBell's behalf? Seagal may or not be a tosser in real life, I'd have to reserve judgement unless i met him as I don't think you should believe everything you read in the papers. I've seen some demo footage of him doing his thing and he looks like he moves really well though. But then again, if you recorded (and edited!) me in the right way, I'd look like a great mover too!


 
*Hi*

*Well his wife left him on the grounds of his violence towards her.*

*And on his now defunct website he claimed he was a reincarnation of a famous Buddhist deity, having trouble reconciling the two.*

*There are several stories of his backing down from fights and I have seen no argument  from him yet, you do the math.*

*If someone went around saying I backed down from him and I didnt I think id make a point of rectifying this.(But then again he is a Deity)*

*Gene LeBell has no reason to bolster his rep neither does Bob Wall.*

*MF*


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## theletch1

madfrank said:
			
		

> *I didnt ask about them?*
> 
> *I was expressing suprise no one had mentioned them yet.*
> 
> *MF*


You shouldn't have been surprised.  As a general rule on the MT aikido forum if it isn't complimentary or doesn't further the art it isn't discussed.  While there are times when an individual commits an act within the aiki world that is beyond heinous and must be discussed for the safety of others who may train with the individual we generally don't get into the bashing that is beginning to take place here.

ps, are you aware that the bold and underlined text comes across almost as if they were all caps?  It seems as if you were yelling all your text.


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## tshadowchaser

interesting link


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## aikiwolf

FWIW I can't stand false information.
Steven Seagal's website is not defunct. It was down over a year ago while it was updated, but other than that????
Steven Seagal never claimed to be a Buddhist Diety,
he was recognized  "[FONT=Verdana,][FONT=Verdana,] as a Reincarnation of the Treasure Revealer
 Chungdrag Dorje of Palyul Monastery" by H.H. Penor Rinpoche. 
Penor Rinpoche states, "[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Verdana,][FONT=Verdana,]In the case of Steven Seagal, he has been formally recognized as a tulku, but has not been officially enthroned. He has also not undergone the lengthy process of study and practice necessary to fully realize what I view as his potential for helping others. When I first met him, I felt he had the special qualities of a tulku within him. According to the Great Vehicle _(Mahayana)_ of the Buddhist tradition, all beings have within them the potential for becoming Buddhas. With Steven Seagal I perceived this potential to be particularly strong as accords with being a tulku. In the past, whenever I have met someone that I feel is a tulku, I have always consulted with other masters of the Nyingma lineage such as Dudjom Rinpoche, Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche and other senior lineage holders. Similarly, after my experience of meeting Steven Seagal, I consulted with another important Nyingma master and with his concurrence, recognized Steven Seagal as a tulku."

Challenges? Speak to those who knew him during his days in Osaka. He would only have everything to lose and nothing to gain by accepting a challenge now. If he loses, it's bad. If he wins, I'm sure headlines would say something like, "Badass or a$$hole?".
If a MA wanted to test themselves, they wouldn't go after a celebrity, they'd attack a featured instructor at a big seminar.

I really don't get people making negative statements about Steven Seagal. Have you spoken with him? Have you trained at his seminars? Do you know how much work he does privately to help stop abuse of animals and give aid to various monastaries? He definitely isn't a 'saint' by any stretch, but don't believe everything you read. Talk to the man himself, then make your decision. ... At least that's what I think.
[/FONT][/FONT]


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## arnisador

Most of the 'challenge' stories invol ving martial artists are exaggerated beyond the point of believability. I'll wait until I read it in Time or Newsweek.


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## Jonathan Randall

madfrank said:
			
		

> *There are several stories of his backing down from fights and I have seen no argument from him yet, you do the math.*


 
If they are true, and I suspect some are given human nature, than _good for him!_ You never fight on the street unless you have to protect yourself or others - not because some punk challenged you.


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## Jonathan Randall

theletch1 said:
			
		

> You shouldn't have been surprised. As a general rule on the MT aikido forum if it isn't complimentary or doesn't further the art it isn't discussed. While there are times when an individual commits an act within the aiki world that is beyond heinous and must be discussed for the safety of others who may train with the individual we generally don't get into the bashing that is beginning to take place here.


 
Good point. 

BTW, whatever one thinks personally of Mr. Seagal, hearsay is just that, _hearsay_.


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## TheBattousai

I only have one thing to say about this subject (Yes My two cents).

I hope things improve for him and that everything will get better (rumors, attitude, movies, etc.) and that we can all become proud once again that he represents the MAs.


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## wer

Shogun said:
			
		

> since everyone's got Seagal stories, I'll do one I heard from Jason Delucia. back in early-1990's, Seagal put an ad in Black belt magazine. it said you could challenge him, in his dojo, but be prepared to fight to the death. Jason showed up to his dojo to accept the offer and Mr. Seagal never showed. twice.
> I heard Rorion Gracie also challenged him, but this I'm not sure.



There's more to the story, and it's still good.  Jason wound up going to the dojo every day, given permission from Haruo Matsuoka Sensei to observe his classes.  Jason gives  Matsuoka Sensei a lot of credit for his Aikido.   

While he was in town. Jason heard about the Gracie challenge.  So he took it and fought Royce in Royce's dojo. resulting in the famous video on Gracie JiuJitsu in Action II (and all over the web) of the "Kung Fu practitioner wearing yellow trunks."  That dojo challenge led to Jason's being invited to fight in UFC.  So it's a good thing he went looking for Steven Seagal to answer his challenge, since it set in action an important chain of events. 

Jason recently posted this on an Aikiweb thread about Steven Seagal:  



			
				Jason DeLucia on AikiWeb said:
			
		

> i've always envisioned an empty handed match with rules of sumo ,judo ,or strictly sword hand , or any rules he decides .i never met the man
> but it would be an honor .


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## Shogun

> I really don't get people making negative statements about Steven Seagal. Have you spoken with him? Have you trained at his seminars? Do you know how much work he does privately to help stop abuse of animals and give aid to various monastaries?


the way a person carries themselves says a ton about their character. in seagal's case, he seems like an *******. I've never met him. I hear his aikido is pretty good, but the ability to beat someone up with it is not exactly what is was created for. It might be cool to meet him. he has inspired so many people, I xcan respect that. so he might be a really good human being, but he just kinda comes off as a jerk. sorry. but he does.


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## jazkiljok

I do not like thee Steven Seagal
the reasons why i cannot tell
but this i know, and know full well.
i do not like thee Steven Seagal:asian:


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## AceHBK

Kroy said:
			
		

> *Oh and someone needs to take him aside and teach him how to run. *
> 
> :rofl: I was going to mention that.



LMAO!!


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## Xue Sheng

Question: I had also heard that his ex-Japanese wife and he had a child, which he also ignores, is this true?

Also I heard he is a Shinto priest!?!?

As for his acting, he cant.
As for his personality, not good.
As for his Aikido, I do not practice it, but it looks very good.


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## Mr.Rooster

I like Seagal Sensei alot.
I think most people who don't like him or bad mouth him are usually just extremely jealous.
Don't believe all the nonsense you hear out of Extreme Liberal Hollywood.


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## Hand Sword

I would agree about the personal stuff. As a martial artist he is legitimate, no argument there.


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## Jenna

I think these Seagal conversations are a right laugh.

Were Steven Seagal not an actor or public figure; were he a mere mortal school owner or senior instructor, his credentials would not be such a bugaboo. What does it matter? Seagal is not representing anyone as a senator or member of parliament, he's not flying our jet airliner nor is he performing invasive surgery on us. He is not in a position where credentials should constitute such a major concern, any more than should Hugh Grant's political ideologies be spread out for ridicule when he plays the Prime Minister.

Or maybe we are all just really bored with our Aikido 

I have no respect for anyone as a person who may care to abuse their partner. Beyond that, I don't understand what all the cattiness is about. Except, that is, to agree with Mr Rooster above in believing the root cause to be jealousy - which of course no one ever admits to  Well, fwiw, I WILL. I will say I'm jealous of what Steven Seagal can do both on the mats for real and on the screen for undoubtedly bringing so many to the art. How many of us can claim to have done that? What great ambassadors for the art we all are, whinging and bickering about who's got the biggest scroll over the dojo door. We do Aikido proud. No doubt, huh. 

Stop badgering and go and do your own Aikido. Oooh, I sound all shouty, ha! Sorry. Feel free to just yak away 

Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna


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## green meanie

Jenna said:
			
		

> I think these Seagal conversations are a right laugh.
> 
> Were Steven Seagal not an actor or public figure; were he a mere mortal school owner or senior instructor, his credentials would not be such a bugaboo. What does it matter? Seagal is not representing anyone as a senator or member of parliament, he's not flying our jet airliner nor is he performing invasive surgery on us. He is not in a position where credentials should constitute such a major concern, any more than should Hugh Grant's political ideologies be spread out for ridicule when he plays the Prime Minister.
> 
> Or maybe we are all just really bored with our Aikido
> 
> I have no respect for anyone as a person who may care to abuse their partner. Beyond that, I don't understand what all the cattiness is about. Except, that is, to agree with Mr Rooster above in believing the root cause to be jealousy - which of course no one ever admits to  Well, fwiw, I WILL. I will say I'm jealous of what Steven Seagal can do both on the mats for real and on the screen for undoubtedly bringing so many to the art. How many of us can claim to have done that? What great ambassadors for the art we all are, whinging and bickering about who's got the biggest scroll over the dojo door. We do Aikido proud. No doubt, huh.
> 
> Stop badgering and go and do your own Aikido. Oooh, I sound all shouty, ha! Sorry. Feel free to just yak away
> 
> Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
> Jenna


 
Well said. Give 'em hell Jenna.


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## Mr.Rooster

Agreed.
Good post Jenna.   Makes sense to me.


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## PBMaster

HI.

I met Steven Seagal many years ago.  He had a studio in North Hollywood.
Mr. Seagal demonstrations were not strictly aikido but the man was very impressive.  He is tall and long waisted.  He legs are fairly short for his body proportion giving him and low center of gravity for a big man.

He was fast and his partner being very gymnastical made his demos very impressive indeed.  Now obviously the average opponent doesn't do flips when leverage is applied, but would, rather, crash and burn.

So that being said, Steven was and is very talented and a fan or some and not of other in terms of his acting and movies.  He is in the end, well-known, successful and knowledgable.

Teaching is in my opinion a thankless business, I think it is important to give credit where it is due.

Master Paul Borisoff


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## Jonathan Randall

PBMaster said:
			
		

> HI.
> 
> I met Steven Seagal many years ago. He had a studio in North Hollywood.
> Mr. Seagal demonstrations were not strictly aikido but the man was very impressive. He is tall and long waisted. He legs are fairly short for his body proportion giving him and low center of gravity for a big man.
> 
> He was fast and his partner being very gymnastical made his demos very impressive indeed. Now obviously the average opponent doesn't do flips when leverage is applied, but would, rather, crash and burn.
> 
> So that being said, Steven was and is very talented and a fan or some and not of other in terms of his acting and movies. He is in the end, well-known, successful and knowledgable.
> 
> Teaching is in my opinion a thankless business, I think it is important to give credit where it is due.
> 
> Master Paul Borisoff


 
That's great information. Agreed. I am sure that he is a proficient martial artist and I think his credentials are fairly solid. The _controversy, _if you want to call it that, IMO, was sparked by two things. One, professional jealously by those less successful or well known, two, by Mr. Segal's alleged personal failings. For myself, I bet I'd learn a lot from a few hours on the mat with him.

BTW, a lot of the _trash_ against him is, IMO, internet hearsay. True, he probably is not the easiest person to get along with, but some of the stuff I've read has no documentation behind it.


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## Jenna

Jonathan Randall said:
			
		

> BTW, a lot of the _trash_ against him is, IMO, internet hearsay. True, he probably is not the easiest person to get along with, but some of the stuff I've read has no documentation behind it.


Hey Jonathan Randall 

I certainly agree with your objectivity on the issue. None of us are without our faults, though at times our successes and piety can erase that fact from before our eyes. Morehei Ueshiba was, by all FIRST-HAND accounts, that have been relayed to me through my senior senseis, not an easy man to get on with. He was curt, sometimes tactless, demanded a very high standard of his students and did not always suffer fools gladly. 

All I am saying is that people are not always as they are portrayed. Those who proffer such portrayals as you say, often have ulterior motivation. And furthermore, folk believe what they want to believe regardless. Whether we think highly or not of a practitioner, our views are often tempered by our ego and not by any first hand emotion or contact, which in all likelihood is not available to us. 

A good post, I just wanted to add some sprinkles to the top  I hope you don't mind. I like your openness 

Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna


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## jujutsu_indonesia

Mr.Rooster said:
			
		

> I like Seagal Sensei alot.
> I think most people who don't like him or bad mouth him are usually just extremely jealous.
> Don't believe all the nonsense you hear out of Extreme Liberal Hollywood.


 
my sensei said, we're all Aiki arts practitioners, and we shouldn't mock steven seagal because he is also a fellow practitioner. If one chain is weak, all is weak.

My sensei often said that he consider Mr. seagal an actor who happened to be an aikido teacher. the emphasis is in "actor". So, all those hollywood gossips is about him as an actor. Have no influence in Aikido whatsoever.

On the other hand, considering the fact that impressionable young men flocked to aikido dojos wishing to be the next Mr. Seagal, I think it would be very nice if Mr. Seagal say something on his interview like "what I do in my movies is movie-do, not aikido. If you want to be like me, go to hollywood. If you want to do aikido, join a dojo". That will be a good thing to avoid disappoinment


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## Mr.Rooster

Seagal Sensei has indeed said things like that in interviews over the years.   You can probably find some on the net if you look enough.


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## green meanie

PBMaster said:
			
		

> HI.
> 
> I met Steven Seagal many years ago. He had a studio in North Hollywood.
> Mr. Seagal demonstrations were not strictly aikido but the man was very impressive. He is tall and long waisted. He legs are fairly short for his body proportion giving him and low center of gravity for a big man.
> 
> He was fast and his partner being very gymnastical made his demos very impressive indeed. Now obviously the average opponent doesn't do flips when leverage is applied, but would, rather, crash and burn.
> 
> So that being said, Steven was and is very talented and a fan or some and not of other in terms of his acting and movies. He is in the end, well-known, successful and knowledgable.
> 
> Teaching is in my opinion a thankless business, I think it is important to give credit where it is due.
> 
> Master Paul Borisoff


 
Great info. Thanks! And very well said.


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## MartialIntent

Jenna said:
			
		

> Morehei Ueshiba was, by all FIRST-HAND accounts, that have been relayed to me through my senior senseis, not an easy man to get on with. He was curt, sometimes tactless, demanded a very high standard of his students and did not always suffer fools gladly.


A side note I know, but I just couldn't help notice your comment. The local head of my own style also said this of Ueshiba when he trained out in Hombu in the 50s when Ueshiba was still about. Told me O'Sensei didn't actually do much teaching at all as we know it nowadays [careful one-on-ones, slowed down and walked-through techniques etc.] but rather had more of an attitude of here's how it is, now you go and do it. But I believe that stems much more from the traditional way the JMA were taught right up until we in the west got a hold of them and turned them soft.

I don't want to sound derisive but you make a valid point - we think of folk what we like whether or not that's how they are in reality. Well said!

Respects!


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## jujutsu_indonesia

MartialIntent said:
			
		

> A side note I know, but I just couldn't help notice your comment. The local head of my own style also said this of Ueshiba when he trained out in Hombu in the 50s when Ueshiba was still about.


 
I think, to get a taste of what Uyeshiba actually taught to the old-guard students (Mochizuki, Tomiki etc) we should see the KATA's they left behind, such as the Koryu Goshin no Kata of Tomiki Aikido and the KATAs in the Yoseikan system. It's more like Jujutsu than today's Aikikai Aikido. Read BUDO RENSHU by Uyeshiba sensei and see what I mean.


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## matt.m

I am not fond of his character at all.  In that respect I would say he is no account.  However, I do believe his ranking into 6th dan.  Aikido got a lot of free publicity from his movies.  

I am not sure if he still actively teaches.  From what I understand he still promotes though.  There is an Aikido school in St. Louis, the instructor is Elliott Freeman, he told me once that he and his class go to Cali once a year.  Stay with him and do their testing.

If you guys want or care, here is the website for the St. Louis school.

http://www.threeriversaikido.com/newsite/index.php


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## Mr.Rooster

I would say Seagal Sensei is a stud and any dislike of his character, unless you know him personally, has been tarnished by the very jealous media.  Seagal Sensei did not get to 7th Dan and maintain the status in Aikido being a dirtbag as the media would prefer you to believe.


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## matt.m

When one uses women for personal gain, then that person is a dirtbag in my opinion.  That is his character, not mine.  That does not take away from his Aikido abilities at all, that just means he has used women in the past for personal gain.


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## Mr.Rooster

How did Seagal Sensei use women for personal gain?
There have been women in Seagal's past that bad mouth him, most are probably jealous in some manner, trying to get something for nothing or perhaps even have mental hygiene issues.


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## matt.m

Well let me see, I do believe that he was married to a Japanese woman and left her.  Oh by the way her dad was an Aikido Grandmaster and she was a master.  He supposedly told them he was going to open up a dojo in the states and send for her.  That did not happen.  Gee, he trained under her and her dad, he got rank from them and earned their trust right?

Oh, let us not forget Kelly LeBrock, she was a model and more of a well known actor.  If I am not mistaken didn't he beat her?  Do you not think that the ulterior motive of marrying her to be more in the limelight could have been there.  Just the fact that he knocked her around does not give him a gold star in my book anyway.


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## Mr.Rooster

That's all a bunch of liberal hogwash.   Where's the fact's?   Those are famous Hollywood rumors and let's not forget, the majority of folks in Hollywood that speak of Seagal are extremely jealous of him and his instant success in their industry that many of them went to school for and still are lousy.   
Show me some facts, not Hollywood gossip.
Also, in regards to his wives, yes he has had many in my opinion, but I know I wasn't in the sack with or either fo wives, nor have I lived with them so unless someone was there that was a neutral party, I'd be extremely skeptical all of that nonsense.
People should boycott Enquirer and People magazine types of literature as they love to print half truth's and in their copies, and thats if your lucky to get the half.


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## matt.m

Again, I am not knocking his ability with Aikido.  I do remember seeing the E! True Hollywood story on Seagal, both women stated in front of camera what their experience with him was like.

By the way, I have talked with Elliott Freeman.  He is the instructor for a club call Three Rivers Aikido.  He and his students travel to Cali and stay with him once a year so they can belt test.

If you would like here is the website.

http://www.threeriversaikido.com/newsite/index.php


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## Calm Intention

Jonathan Randall said:
			
		

> If they are true, and I suspect some are given human nature, than _good for him!_ You never fight on the street unless you have to protect yourself or others - not because some punk challenged you.


 
That,  and the fact that a real martial artist doesn't disgrace the arts or the tradition- especially the Aikido discipline's spritual philosophy.

**Since this was only brought up in two entries here:
I don't know if S.S.  was C.I.A. or Special Forces for fact,  but early on in his movie career,  I'd have sworn this was true.
With that in mind,  and some of those early flicks scripts  and their sharp attack on 'not so nice'  things our intell was doing in Vietnam, etc.;; along with his numerous efforts to expose Corporate Crime(in his movies),,, Sensei Segal is what you might want to define as a 'target' for the Establisment...person non-grata, etc.
And when you become this type person(which takes mucho guts!),  they never leave you alone,  and will always try to foment attacks upon your character.  
Now the question is whether Segal's past is accurate,  and even if not,  the message in many of his films,  are hot buttons for many powerful people.
*and if you doubt that,  you're kidding yourself big-time.

**7th Dan:asian:  ;  the average never makes it to 7th


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