# Skip dan testing?



## Sporty2018 (Apr 10, 2018)

I'm sure a few have heard of the skip dan testing last year in the US??

Anyone heard if there will be another skip test in 2018?

To all the critics... Pls withhold. We don't need to agree on politics.
I am an excellent candidate. Trained fr 30 yrs, bb over 20 of them.
Cross trained in just about everything under the sun. Been teaching a military club for a while now.

Anyone heard ? Another this year?
Missed out last year... A bit late on reg. It was full.

Thks.


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## Headhunter (Apr 11, 2018)

No idea what this is but it sounds like you skip certain Dan grades so go from 1st Dan to third Dan. If that's what it is then no that's absolutely wrong in my opinion


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## andyjeffries (Apr 11, 2018)

Haven't heard anything about one happening again the US. There is strong pressure on Kukkiwon to stop doing them, but unless they've silently dropped them then they'll still go ahead.

There's always the option of doing it in Korea, but the cost may be prohibitive to you (I don't know).

Also, I don't know what rank you are or how many you want to skip, but a local master/grandmaster one rank above the rank you want to jump to can recommend a single-dan skip, but to no more than 5th Dan. To skip higher than 5th Dan or skip more than one dan it has to be done by the Kukkiwon grading panel.


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## Headhunter (Apr 11, 2018)

andyjeffries said:


> Haven't heard anything about one happening again the US. There is strong pressure on Kukkiwon to stop doing them, but unless they've silently dropped them then they'll still go ahead.
> 
> There's always the option of doing it in Korea, but the cost may be prohibitive to you (I don't know).
> 
> Also, I don't know what rank you are or how many you want to skip, but a local master/grandmaster one rank above the rank you want to jump to can recommend a single-dan skip, but to no more than 5th Dan. To skip higher than 5th Dan or skip more than one dan it has to be done by the Kukkiwon grading panel.


Wow so you really can skip Dan grades?....this is why traditional martial arts standards are going downhill. Black belt shouldn't want to skip a Dan they shouldn't care about rank at that point only their training and improving


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## Gerry Seymour (Apr 11, 2018)

Headhunter said:


> Wow so you really can skip Dan grades?....this is why traditional martial arts standards are going downhill. Black belt shouldn't want to skip a Dan they shouldn't care about rank at that point only their training and improving


If someone meets the requirements for a grade, why does it matter whether they spent 10 years in each of the two grades prior, or 20 years in one of them?


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## TrueJim (Apr 11, 2018)

Headhunter said:


> Wow so you really can skip Dan grades?



In principle, skip-dan grading is supposed to be used in unusual circumstances where somebody has been unable to test for a very long period of time, so dan grades are skipped to make an appropriate correction. As an example, somebody who lives in a very remote area where for many years there was nobody available to grade them. 

In practice though, the practice of skip dan grading has sometimes been abused. 



Headhunter said:


> this is why traditional martial arts standards are going downhill



When I was young, the grass was greener, the sky was bluer, and everybody was so much prettier. 



Headhunter said:


> Black belt shouldn't want to skip a Dan they shouldn't care about rank



Rank matters if you're running a school, because it determines what level  you can promote your students to.



Headhunter said:


> at that point only their training and improving



They should probably care about doing their taxes too. They're due pretty soon now.


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## Headhunter (Apr 11, 2018)

gpseymour said:


> If someone meets the requirements for a grade, why does it matter whether they spent 10 years in each of the two grades prior, or 20 years in one of them?


But there's a lot of the time they won't have met the requirements and it'll be people double grading their friends which is even worse than a single promotion


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## TrueJim (Apr 11, 2018)

Headhunter said:


> it'll be people double grading their friends which is even worse than a single promotion



You've correctly put your finger on the heart problem:  The problem isn't necessarily skip-dan tests, it's people who _abuse_ skip-dan tests. 



Headhunter said:


> But there's a lot of the time they won't have met the requirements



Playing devils advocate: what _is_ the requirements for a Kukkiwon 6th dan vs. a Kukkiwon 4th dan -- two more poomsae?  Some additional years in grade? 

It seems to me that in theory a 6th dan should have a much deeper understanding of the curriculum than a 4th dan, and have should have done more to contribute to the art. But a conventional_ dan test_ is not going to confirm either of those things. On the other hand, knowing that Betty Backick has been running her own dojang for 10 years in Montana and has taught hundreds of students...I don't think there's necessarily anything wrong with updating Betty's grade to reflect her level of experience and accomplishment. IMO


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## skribs (Apr 11, 2018)

TrueJim said:


> You've correctly put your finger on the heart problem:  The problem isn't necessarily skip-dan tests, it's people who _abuse_ skip-dan tests.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



While we're on the subject, how does someone who is the highest rank in an area continue to grow?

I mean, if Betty Backick has been running her own dojang for 10 years with little to no oversight, where is her deeper understanding coming from?

(I'm genuinely curious, I'm not just trying to be facetious).


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## TrueJim (Apr 11, 2018)

skribs said:


> if Betty Backick has been running her own dojang for 10 years with little to no oversight, where is her deeper understanding coming from (I'm genuinely curious, I'm not just trying to be facetious).



I think that's a fair question. It's possible that Betty Backick hasn't grown at all. So I think anybody offering a skip-dan to Betty would need to be vigilante about making sure Betty is performing at an appropriate level. 

As to _where_ Betty got her growth...where do any of us get our growth?  I am positive that my kwanjangnim is responsible for only a part of my growth -- I get some of my growth from listening to what you guys have to say*, some of my growth from attending tournaments, some from attending seminars, some from reading, some from making observations when I teach, some from my own contemplation of my technique when I practice, etc. 

I attended a poomsae seminar this past weekend that blew my mind. So many new trends in sports poomsae -- so different from even a year ago. I learned more in those two days than I would have learned in months of my regular practice schedule. Spoiler: the back stance, it ain't what it used to be. 

* Excluding skribs, obviously.


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## skribs (Apr 11, 2018)

TrueJim said:


> * Excluding skribs, obviously.



Because what I say is so far and above your level that you have no hope of including it in your training regimen?


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## TrueJim (Apr 11, 2018)

skribs said:


> Because what I say is so far and above your level that you have no hope of including it in your training regimen?



Uhhh...yah, yah! That was it!


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## WaterGal (Apr 11, 2018)

TrueJim said:


> In principle, skip-dan grading is supposed to be used in unusual circumstances where somebody has been unable to test for a very long period of time, so dan grades are skipped to make an appropriate correction. As an example, somebody who lives in a very remote area where for many years there was nobody available to grade them.



Yeah, we had a guy talk to us about doing one for him, because his teacher had charged him for the KKW 2nd & 3rd dan certs and just kept the money and didn't submit the paperwork to Kukkiwon. Ultimately, Mr WaterGal didn't feel like he was at a 3rd dan level of performance anyhow, and so we just did the 2nd dan for him. But, from what I understand, that would be an example of the kind of circumstance that skip dan testing is meant to correct.


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## Buka (Apr 11, 2018)

I never heard of skip dan testing before this thread. I've never been skip dan tested, but I was skip dan _promoted_ from first to third back in 84. At a big open tournament no less. My instructor at the time, Billy Blanks, was to do a big demo at the night finals, me assisting. During competition he won heavyweight and I won lightweight, we would fight in the finals. In the middle of the demo he promoted me. Ten minutes later when we fought, he whooped the dog crap out of me. At one point he swept both my legs out and up in the air I went - where he punched me in the chest as I was coming down. Hard, too, made a great thumping sound on my chest, the crowd ooohed. Thankfully, we did a lot of breakfall back then.


 

Best part of the story, the promoter of this tournament was the only guy I didn't get along with in the Martial world back then. We did not like each other, not even one little bit. When Billy stopped the show to promote me - I could almost hear the guy choking on the sidelines.


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## skribs (Apr 11, 2018)

WaterGal said:


> Yeah, we had a guy talk to us about doing one for him, because his teacher had charged him for the KKW 2nd & 3rd dan certs and just kept the money and didn't submit the paperwork to Kukkiwon. Ultimately, Mr WaterGal didn't feel like he was at a 3rd dan level of performance anyhow, and so we just did the 2nd dan for him. But, from what I understand, that would be an example of the kind of circumstance that skip dan testing is meant to correct.



That is one of the problems with the KKW system, in my opinion, is that you can have a substandard school promote you, and then you go to another school and are in way over your head.

Although I like it because it means I can go to any KKW school and be qualified at my Dan level, it's a two-way street.


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## drop bear (Apr 11, 2018)

gpseymour said:


> If someone meets the requirements for a grade, why does it matter whether they spent 10 years in each of the two grades prior, or 20 years in one of them?



The belt system has to mean something for the belt system to work.


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## drop bear (Apr 11, 2018)

skribs said:


> While we're on the subject, how does someone who is the highest rank in an area continue to grow?
> 
> I mean, if Betty Backick has been running her own dojang for 10 years with little to no oversight, where is her deeper understanding coming from?
> 
> (I'm genuinely curious, I'm not just trying to be facetious).



My coach has that. He cross trains. And competes.


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## TrueJim (Apr 11, 2018)

drop bear said:


> The belt system has to mean something for the belt system to work.



It seems to me that what would detract from the meaning of the grace would be to NOT promote the 20-year guy by 2 grades. If (say) a 5th dan is supposed to mean that somebody has 20 years of contribution in the art, and somebody has that 20 years, then it would detract from the meaning to NOT promote them to the appropriate grade. IMO


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## TrueJim (Apr 11, 2018)

skribs said:


> While we're on the subject, how does someone who is the highest rank in an area continue to grow?



COINCIDENTALLY, somebody from HR at work mentioned this to me today:

70/20/10 Model (Learning and Development) - Wikipedia

The *70:20:10 Model for Learning and Development* (also written as 70-20-10 or 70/20/10) is a learning and development model of 70% challenging assignments, 20% developmental relationships and 10% coursework and training.

Morgan McCall and his colleagues working at the Center for Creative Leadership (CCL) are usually credited with originating the 70:20:10 ratio. Two of McCall's colleagues, Michael M. Lombardo and Robert W. Eichinger, published data from one CCL study in their 1996 book _The Career Architect Development Planner_.[1]

Based on a survey asking nearly 200 executives to self-report how they believed they learned, McCall, Lombardo and Eichinger's surmised that:

“Lessons learned by successful and effective managers are roughly:


70% from challenging assignments
20% from developmental relationships
10% from coursework and training
So to skrib's question, one might argue that your kwanjangnim is really contributing only about 10% to your development. The rest of your development is from challenging assignments (e.g., running a school, coaching teams, refereeing tournaments, etc.); and developmental relationships (the peers that you glean useful insights from).


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## Gerry Seymour (Apr 11, 2018)

Headhunter said:


> But there's a lot of the time they won't have met the requirements and it'll be people double grading their friends which is even worse than a single promotion


That is a problem. Not one I’ve seen, but one I heard about from my Judo/Shotokan instructor. Not so much an issue with skipping dans as with promotion beyond qualification.


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## Gerry Seymour (Apr 11, 2018)

drop bear said:


> The belt system has to mean something for the belt system to work.


As long as they meet the requirements, the meaning stays the same. 

The only Dan skipping I remember in NGA was within the “honorary” ranks (no testing beyond nidan). My first instructor was promoted from nidan to yondan (making him second only to the head of the style), at the request of several sandans.


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## Sporty2018 (Apr 11, 2018)

Wow. Interesting discussion.

I'd say Im surprised at some comments, but... Not really.
Thks truejim for adding some perspective.

I'll never understand some views on jump dan.  As stated above by someone, there are certain circumstances. Mine is one of them. Thus my question that seemed to trigger this thread.

Skip dan testing should still look at the larger context of the candidate background, as well. As the skill at time of test. The administrator could still determine that the candidate see deserves a lower rank, and so be it.

I would be faaaar more concerned with the test mill type schools where no one fails. More of a schedule than a readiness.


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## andyjeffries (Apr 12, 2018)

Headhunter said:


> Wow so you really can skip Dan grades?....this is why traditional martial arts standards are going downhill. Black belt shouldn't want to skip a Dan they shouldn't care about rank at that point only their training and improving



I don't think traditional martial arts standards are going downhill, but maybe I hang out in different circles. We have much better access to seminars from high ranking grandmasters and masters now than we ever used to, qualification courses from the Kukkiwon. I see standards improving all the time.

In the interests of full disclosure, I'm a recipient of a Skip Dan. I tested for 3rd Dan Kukkiwon in (I think) 1995 and 5th Dan Kukkiwon at the end of 2010. I'd taken about a 3 year break during that time. My reason for not testing was twofold: 1) a lack of belief in the national association's impartiality and 2) my local instructor being almost against testing. He got his 5th Dan about 2000 and said that he wasn't interested in testing again, he was happy at 5th Dan. So most of the students also never bothered testing.

I happened to be in contact with my original instructor (himself a Kukkiwon 8th Dan and 2nd Class Kukkiwon Master at the time), he assessed my skill level and said that I was easily at 5th Dan level. He tested me and put the application in to Kukkiwon explaining the two reasons above and it was approved without problem.

Since then I've tested for my Kukkiwon 6th Dan and Changmookwan 7th Dan (and will test for KKW 7th Dan/CMK 8th Dan in about 4 years). So, I don't regret my skip dan, feel my skill level was appropriate and have since moved past it, so it's a bit of a non-issue. I've been to Korea 5 times since then (and going again in July), I'm also now a 2nd Class Kukkiwon-certified Master Instructor and 3rd Class Kukkiwon-certified Poom/Dan Examiner - so I've certainly been continuing to learn/train since then. But, like a Reddit AMA I'm happy to discuss the skip dan.

Don't get me wrong, I think that candidates should be obviously performing at the target level, and should have put in the training years (I had 3 years out, but if I'd stopped in 1995 and started again in 2009 I wouldn't have done it). But I don't think Skip Dans are a bad thing, used correctly.


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## andyjeffries (Apr 12, 2018)

skribs said:


> While we're on the subject, how does someone who is the highest rank in an area continue to grow?
> 
> I mean, if Betty Backick has been running her own dojang for 10 years with little to no oversight, where is her deeper understanding coming from?
> 
> (I'm genuinely curious, I'm not just trying to be facetious).



Personally I'm in a town (and county) where I'm the highest ranked Kukkiwon/Changmookwan master. I continue to develop by maintaining a close relationship with my instructor (who visits me or I visit him), by attending seminars and training courses put on by high ranking masters and grandmasters (and official Kukkiwon ones), by going to Korea to train with some master-friends of mine (or flying them here). I do my best to stay on top of current students and pass them on accurately. So even though I have no "oversight" (my instructor isn't a daily sight in my club, nor does he have any power over my decisions/teaching style), I still gain a deeper understanding and continue to grow.


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## andyjeffries (Apr 12, 2018)

gpseymour said:


> That is a problem. Not one I’ve seen, but one I heard about from my Judo/Shotokan instructor. Not so much an issue with skipping dans as with promotion beyond qualification.



And this is always a problem even without skip dans. I know plenty of people (including one recently) that received a higher Dan rank that I would NEVER have promoted that high. The Kukkiwon poom/dan examiner course told us not to worry about other people's standards, just to worry about our own - and I try to live by that, but I think promoting people to a rank they really aren't qualified for will happen with or without skip dans.


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## andyjeffries (Apr 12, 2018)

drop bear said:


> The belt system has to mean something for the belt system to work.



I think it does, but maybe it means something different to other people. For example, in the west we see a black belt and think they're an expert - a trained killer! However, in Korea this is simply a beginner rank. You know the basics, but still need a lot of help.

Same with 4th Dan - in the UK, this is commonly seen as a master rank (and in Korea too, although they also need the Kukkiwon course graduate certificate. However, in Korea they see 4th/5th Dans as paid instructors working for a 6th Dan upwards, so they are the first level of instructors (because Koreans will commonly get 4th Poom before they turn 18 and then 5th Dan at 21/22).

So expectations of the belt system can be very different in meaning.

For example, I'm a 7th Dan Changmookwan. Which means I'm thinking differently than I did when I was a 3rd Dan (or even a 5th Dan). I'm now thinking about how I can pass Taekwondo on accurately, what generation of instructors am I leaving for the future, how can I help Taekwondo's popularity (and I teach in a non-profit-ethos club, so I don't care about getting more students in to make me rich - I don't take a single penny from the account), etc. So my higher rank means something to me. To others they may see an overweight guy, knowing I can't jump up and simultaneously do the splits and think I'm not worth my grade. Whatever...


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## Gerry Seymour (Apr 12, 2018)

andyjeffries said:


> And this is always a problem even without skip dans. I know plenty of people (including one recently) that received a higher Dan rank that I would NEVER have promoted that high. The Kukkiwon poom/dan examiner course told us not to worry about other people's standards, just to worry about our own - and I try to live by that, but I think promoting people to a rank they really aren't qualified for will happen with or without skip dans.


I think there will always be some of that. Even with objective standards, there will still be significant variations among instructors.


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## Buka (Apr 12, 2018)

skribs said:


> While we're on the subject, how does someone who is the highest rank in an area continue to grow?



Aggressively. You go get it. As best you can with what you have to work with.


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## TrueJim (Apr 12, 2018)

gpseymour said:


> That is a problem. Not one I’ve seen, but one I heard about from my Judo/Shotokan instructor. Not so much an issue with skipping dans as with promotion beyond qualification.



This is a good point. Promotion beyond qualification is a problem that's independent of skip-dan promotion. You can promote somebody who's not qualified even under a normal 1-grade promotion.


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## JR 137 (Apr 12, 2018)

The founder of my former organization was double promoted at one point - he went from 4th dan to 6th dan.

He left his previous organization to start his own.  He was a 4th dan when he left.  He was working with several MAists in and out of the area, and was a 4th dan for about 10-15 years.  He was a former somewhat international Kyokushin competitor and an Army boxing champion.  Several of the people he was working with offered to promote him on a few occasions, but he declined.  The story goes his student’s were all catching up to him in rank, so a few of the people he was working with at the time got together and finally promoted him during a demonstration where he had no clue that they were going to do it.  He felt honored by it and accepted it, but he didn’t make any production about it when he got back to the dojo.  I heard he walked in and started warmups without saying anything, and only very briefly talked about it when the students asked about his new belt and congratulated him.  He gave a very, very brief speech of sorts, then said “now can we continue with class?”


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## Flying Crane (Apr 12, 2018)

I seem to recall reading that Gichin Funakoshi adopted the belt system after he had been training and teaching for quite some time.  He had students who had studied with him for a long time, and he ranked some of them as high as 6th dan.  So going from zero belt rank directly to 6th dan is quite a “skip dan” grading.

The thing is, if that accurately reflects his level, then it’s appropriate.  It wouldn’t make sense to make the guy a yellow belt just because the teacher adopted a new ranking system.

I think the negative reaction of some people is based on how this could be abused.  Some people have unrealistic notions of how great they are, and might come to expect it. There can be an arrogance that is part of it.  That’s not realistic nor appropriate.

But under the right circumstances, if one is training within a group that uses a ranking system, it can be appropriate.

Personally I am not a fan of the whole ranking system, I think it could be done away with or at least simplified a lot and the multiple dan grades should be eliminated.  But that is a different discussion.


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## JR 137 (Apr 12, 2018)

Flying Crane said:


> I seem to recall reading that Gichin Funakoshi adopted the belt system after he had been training and teaching for quite some time.  He had students who had studied with him for a long time, and he ranked some of them as high as 6th dan.  So going from zero belt rank directly to 6th dan is quite a “skip dan” grading.
> 
> The thing is, if that accurately reflects his level, then it’s appropriate.  It wouldn’t make sense to make the guy a yellow belt just because the teacher adopted a new ranking system.
> 
> ...


I’m pretty sure it was 5th dan, not 6th.  I think 5th dan was the highest at the time, and 6-10 were added later.  There’s a famous Funakoshi student who’s name escapes me at the moment.  He refused to be promoted past 5th dan because he said that was the highest rank Shotokan was supposed to have.

I can’t remember where I read the interview with him.  If I come across it, I’ll post it.


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## JR 137 (Apr 12, 2018)

Flying Crane said:


> I seem to recall reading that Gichin Funakoshi adopted the belt system after he had been training and teaching for quite some time.  He had students who had studied with him for a long time, and he ranked some of them as high as 6th dan.  So going from zero belt rank directly to 6th dan is quite a “skip dan” grading.
> 
> The thing is, if that accurately reflects his level, then it’s appropriate.  It wouldn’t make sense to make the guy a yellow belt just because the teacher adopted a new ranking system.
> 
> ...


Some good information in this article...
How the masters got their ranks: the origins of karate ranks – Judo Info

Not the interview I was talking about in my previous post, but this is far more informative regarding the early dan ranking.  Of note is that in the beginning, it stated Funakoshi and his karate peers weren’t awarded specific dan rank, only teaching levels/licenses.  Paraphrased - they were the founder of the school, so dan level didn’t apply to them, only their students.


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## Buka (Apr 12, 2018)

My first instructor promoted himself. He even advertised in newspaper ads teaching styles he had never trained in, probably never even saw.

But as the old proverb says, "Live by the sword, die by the sword." 

He did.


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## andyjeffries (Apr 13, 2018)

The earliest skip dan known about is this:

"In 1883, Dr. Kano divided students into two groups, which was the non-graded (mudansha) and the graded (yudansha)," according to Naoki Murata, curator of the Kodokan Judo Museum. "The first yudansha, or shodan grade, were two famous students in the Kodokan at that time, named Tsunejiro Tomita and Shiro Saigo. These two students were also the first ones promoted to second dan a year later."

Shiro Saigo, immortalized in Tsuneo Tomita's fictional novel "Sugata Sanshiro" and Akira Kurasawa's 1940s movie adaptation about the infamous tournament between judo and jujutsu, skipped third dan and was promoted directly to fourth dan the following year in 1885, Muraka reports.

Matsumoto, David. An Introduction to Kodokan Judo History and Philosophy, Hom-No Tomosha, 1996


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## TrueJim (Apr 13, 2018)

andyjeffries said:


> "In 1883, Dr. Kano divided students into two groups, which was the non-graded (mudansha) and the graded (yudansha)," according to Naoki Murata, curator of the Kodokan Judo Museum. "The first yudansha, or shodan grade, were two famous students in the Kodokan at that time, named Tsunejiro Tomita and Shiro Saigo. These two students were also the first ones promoted to second dan a year later.



*Gurrrr!*  This is the problem with modern martial arts!  I remember back in the 1700s, dan grades used to mean something. But ever since the mid-1800s, standards have relaxed to the point of being nonexistent. Dr. Kano probably just did it to bring in more business. His school was more of a kids' summer camp than a real martial arts studio anyway.

#thegoodolddays #youkidsgetoffmylawn #thingswerebetterwhenIwasyoung #yourschoolisaMcDojobutmyschoolislegit


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Apr 13, 2018)

People have always whinged about young adults. Here's proof


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## Jaeimseu (Apr 13, 2018)

I should have applied for skip dan several years ago but didn’t. I now kind of wish I had done it. Rank doesn’t matter until it matters. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## skribs (Apr 13, 2018)

Jaeimseu said:


> I should have applied for skip dan several years ago but didn’t. I now kind of wish I had done it. Rank doesn’t matter until it matters.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I'm curious - why does it matter now, and why didn't it matter then?


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## Jaeimseu (Apr 13, 2018)

skribs said:


> I'm curious - why does it matter now, and why didn't it matter then?



I was at a stage where I was almost proud of not testing. My thinking was probably a little too concerned with other people’s rank and my perception of their ability. At this point I don’t worry much about what other people have. 

It doesn’t often really matter now, but occasionally having a higher rank makes it easier to “get a seat” at certain tables. All things considered, it’d be better to have it than not have it, given the choice. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## skribs (Apr 13, 2018)

I completely understand the desire to take your time and make sure you feel your skill is reflected with your rank.  In Taekwondo I am ranking up as fast as I possibly can, because I have goals for when I will be a 4th and 5th degree (should get my 3rd degree in a few months).  In Hapkido I am slowly plodding along, because it is just so darn hard for me to learn the nuances of that art.  In the time it took to get my 2nd degree in Taekwondo, I've gotten 3 belts in hapkido and I'm not even halfway to first degree.

However, I think purposefully refusing to test because you don't hold much stock in the testing system is holding yourself back, and that if you feel you are the appropriate skill level to advance, you should.

That's just my opinion.


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## Gerry Seymour (Apr 13, 2018)

skribs said:


> I completely understand the desire to take your time and make sure you feel your skill is reflected with your rank.  In Taekwondo I am ranking up as fast as I possibly can, because I have goals for when I will be a 4th and 5th degree (should get my 3rd degree in a few months).  In Hapkido I am slowly plodding along, because it is just so darn hard for me to learn the nuances of that art.  In the time it took to get my 2nd degree in Taekwondo, I've gotten 3 belts in hapkido and I'm not even halfway to first degree.
> 
> However, I think purposefully refusing to test because you don't hold much stock in the testing system is holding yourself back, and that if you feel you are the appropriate skill level to advance, you should.
> 
> That's just my opinion.


Some places, testing costs money - sometimes more than pocket change. A lot of times, it requires extra time, if nothing else. If the rank isn't important and doesn't gain you access to new material (not sure if it would for the poster in question), then I can see folks opting not to test.


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