# Systema Basic Principles?



## Jonathan Randall

Systema Basic Principles? If you could capture the essential Systema principles and concepts in ONE paragraph, what would they be?


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## NYCRonin

Hmm..once upon a time - when I was thinking I was totally irish born and bred...in the late 60's..the IRA had a moron who detonated a nail bomb in a school buss of children in Brittan.

And with that action- no longer were they freedom fighters to me. They became terrorists..before that term was regular venacular.

To this very moment - I still remember how my body 'felt' as 'I heard the news today...oh boy'. AND IT HURT!

I have trained with SAS.,.GSG-9..and those funny folks that claim one thing but actually are another....Some Spetz....some claiming to be IDF..but were Mossading...and FBI in a tongue in cheek lie....for CIA was their paymasters way.

AND all of the  get down to the nitty gritty-ists...every damn one....know about that nail bomb. EVERY ONE.
They had far more professional respect for the attempted bomb in a theater that might have killed Elisabeth.

In the theater of war..or fighting for freedom(s)..there are simply simple limits that mostly all can as action pros - all can pretty much agree.
YOU DO NOT TARGET:
children,
innocents,
aged,
random targets.

Freedom fighters with any base of honor - hells bells, military/governmental/LEO's = fair game. But Firefighters, EMS  --and other first responders or civilians - they are off the list.

And sure as S*** ya dont target those going to their church/mosque/chapel/synagoge.

The IRA of the Easter Rebellion back in the last century..Connely, Clark, De'Valera?

Would cry at what became of the later IRA. 

As I write from no cost web access in paradise....the present middle east situation is a hot button. Hezzbolla basicaly caused the situation that is turning Lebanon into rubble. BUT - all those rockets were very easy to see.
Before firing them into Israel.

And 'hells broke loose in Georgia and thye devil deals the devil deals the cards..and if you win you get this shiney fiddle made of gold - but if you lose the devil getsds your soul'!"

Have ya ever seen the map of the middle east?

just google the geography of the middle east..see what ya find.
See how small Israel is in the sector of sand.

And they are very and rightfully reactive when attacked. LOVE EM!

Wubba wubba - where was I?
Oh yes.

It is, of course - a sad thing that we kill for politics and religion or whatever causes. 
Still and all included - there are certain limits that any semi-rational human can agree upon.

The killing...the deliberate targeting of innocent victims...re: Beslan, by example.

THAT sorta S*** is simply evil..and anyone who ever thinks that that will push their agenda forward?

IS A TOTAL MORON.

Most of ya know that I earn my pay as a correction officer. Almost out of it - hopefully out within a year. Working ut the pension presently.
Anyway - as mad as any CO might feel if they read the following:
As an officer....I have alot less trouble with an inmate/attacker beating a MOS (member of service) into a coma than I have with the attack being directed to a civilian worker. Nurses, social service workers, teachers and cooks...G'damn innocents!

Ya walk the tiers - YOU chose this thing. YOU wear a shield - and that has certain implied consequences. Just like the fine soldiers who wear the cammy..a half world away. Dirrerent, YES! But the same - in a 'certain understanding'.

Killing the innocent?

Targeting these ones?

By doing so, you become the vey lowest of the dregs of humanity...IMHO.
And even if there is a hell - heel does not have enough punishment for such evil. Even a 'Satan' himself would go - "OMG - what sort of person are you? OK - I gotta make a deeper level for what you called out for"?!

How many levels of 'hell' did Dante cal for in The Inferno?
I am all for 'the people' - and thats a term twisted and torn often..and there simply is no end to this thing.

AMERICA..My homeland.....has been so free....for the majority in democacy....its kinda cool to be here. As I son click the timeline into 52 years of life...yeah, its been a sweet land of all the liberty I ever needed.

Sadly, my cyber family -- and call me a moron if ya wish c- thats cool with me...
SADLY:
I see a bad moon a rising.

And once it rises  -the good people in America and around the world - from every point that came here to live the damn 'american dream' - THEY will go on.

And this tired and fueled rant...is over...my friends.
Peace to ya'all...never forget..never surrender...and when ya leave your home after reading this?

Kiss and hug those you leave behind.

TRUST ME!  -- do THAT!
And all the diatribe above is nothing compared to love and expressing it to those who are in your life, presently or forever. As simplistic as it seems...Ihave come to learn by blood, seat tears and toil...that IF ya can find love? Love actually DOES conquer all.

Ok..I know how 'wussy' that seems to read...felt morso to write and post it...an my real time folks...yer giggling as you read this...Right Al, Dave - Tony  - Dima - Sonny  -  Scooty and Bri an Brad And Larry man -  and Jelly also. I guess I am finally getting some of the things that you have shared with me. 

I must bounce out for now..and shut down the lap top...but, I am so blessed to be a part of 'the work'-ers.

Later today?
I am going to dine on mahi-mahi - and have a few mai-tai drinks.
And as I get the first one - I wil raise my glass to the community sharefd here...the young, the old - the smart and the bold....and SOO DEFINETLY - tothose whose voices are no longer heard..whose faces we no longer see.....my peers, my guides - and many of the new crew - ya/all know the names.

I am gonna raise that mai-taiwith the same connction as the rounds of wodka at Mishas home - Johnny E. he was there...and Sctty Meredith also..and a man named Millman and Scotty Conner also...
they know. they know.

To all of this community that bever taught me..or even learned anything from me having lived my crazy ways and days......A TOAST TO ALL!

Be safe..do the work and strive to exceed your limits...
Goodnight.


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## Pervaz

Rob

You seriously have to learn to be succinct and clear - enough of these ramblings (and duplication) ..

Whatever the question is you always seem to turn it into a great revelation and passing the man size tissues

P


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## NYCRonin

Hi Pervaz!

Ok maybe - well often - I do drone on...but you are old school and I know ya could get any point I am wishing to share in just a lil icon.
BUT - as my pm boxes get too full often - others simply dont get it fast and furious.

Bro. - you and I have been in total agreement and disagreement many times. And although I fear we will never meet - I have nothin but love for ya - brother. I really just write..often after the time I should be asleep. And there is no great revelation in anything you have ever read from me...not ever. Maybe a lil tug and a lil something for consideration. And I may carry the man sized tissues...but - well - I am a pretty much a 'man'. So are you.

Please remember the years on the cyber  - gone by. Frickin years. And never have we ever  been less than true and sharing to each other.

Pervaz...if we PMed all the time - short and sweet it would be.

But sometimes - it takes a damn litany to make a point to those who just have yet to be there...and thats often encouraged by the PM-ers. Mostly cherries to this...just seeking something more than a furtryism. I would rather write too much than not reach the fringes- seeking a way.
Hmm..hows about this?


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## SilatSeeker

No wonder why the Russian MA forum is so dead. A great question on principles of Systema turned into whatever this is?  Think someones been enjoying other Russian exports a little too much...


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## NYCRonin

Sorry SilatSeeker.....Forgive me.
Most of the semi-regular visitors here all know each other to one degree or another.
In regards to the starting threads question -- 
Its pretty difficult to put any art into a single paragraph.
The standard response to the question would be that 'Systema' works off of 4 main principles:
Form, breathing, relaxation and movement.
Each of these requires more than a few sentences to even come close to a description. In an early issue of MTalk magazine, I wrote an article or two that  recounted the basics.....and might still be available on this site.

Other than that, a search of previous threads here might provide your answers.
The same would hold true for other RMA.
*****

Kickstarting this particular forum is going to be a lil tricky....most of the Systema folk I know from here are much more prone to frequent sites that are connected to Systema teachers....and again, I suspect the same is true for other RMA. That, coupled with the info in previous threads..well, a re-hash is simply a re-hash.
*****

Perhaps more specific questions would get a wider and more precise response...something not found in threads previous. Just what that might be..I am not certain. Certainly worth a try, though.

Again, my appologies for thread hijack/drift or boring anyone....I will try to stay more focused in the future visits.


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## Jackal

Jonathan Randall said:
			
		

> Systema Basic Principles? If you could capture the essential Systema principles and concepts in ONE paragraph, what would they be?


 
I couldn't write the same paragraph twice about Systema even though I've been involved in the community for 7 years. I'm also not a big fan of the breathing, movement, form, and relaxation "principles". I don't think those alone without any other guidance, would result in Systema.

My view of the Systema "way" has changed greatly since it first found and adopted me. My personal view of the system, as I think of it right now, can be summed up in a few choice phrases.

Be efficient
Be direct
Be creative
Right thinking=right action

Systema is about creative problem solving based on intuition and improvization. We all know rote techniques don't work - any "master" of any art will eventually tell you that. You need to be able to think on your feet and adapt to the situation in front of, or around you. Many arts train the body to act without thinking. Systema trains the mind to stay "on" in times of stress and act accordingly. At least, that's what it did for me. 

Plus, I learned how to hit like a truck. 

Pass the tissues.


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## NYCRonin

Hi Jackal...
Begining with the basics we were once first taught- I felt it appropriate to return to these old terms for the purpose of 'kickstart'.....lol...its hard enough to explain 'all of this' in any short form...and the terms you mention are more of experience born. But agreed upon here, by your friend.

Lets see who else adds to this.


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## Jonathan Randall

Jackal said:
			
		

> I couldn't write the same paragraph twice about Systema even though I've been involved in the community for 7 years. I'm also not a big fan of the breathing, movement, form, and relaxation "principles". I don't think those alone without any other guidance, would result in Systema.
> 
> My view of the Systema "way" has changed greatly since it first found and adopted me. My personal view of the system, as I think of it right now, can be summed up in a few choice phrases.
> 
> Be efficient
> Be direct
> Be creative
> Right thinking=right action
> 
> Systema is about creative problem solving based on intuition and improvization. We all know rote techniques don't work - any "master" of any art will eventually tell you that. You need to be able to think on your feet and adapt to the situation in front of, or around you. Many arts train the body to act without thinking. Systema trains the mind to stay "on" in times of stress and act accordingly. At least, that's what it did for me.
> 
> Plus, I learned how to hit like a truck.
> 
> Pass the tissues.


 
Great post - and on topic.

I do like the "creative" part, from what little I've seen of Systema. It also seems more "natural" and less mechanistic than most other arts, particularly Karate.


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## Jackal

Jonathan Randall said:
			
		

> I do like the "creative" part, from what little I've seen of Systema. It also seems more "natural" and less mechanistic than most other arts, particularly Karate.


 
Agreed. 

We always have to remember the cultures that these different arts came from. Some appear very mechanistic as compared to others. 

I've never been one for dogma, rules or creative stifling. Systema was the closest model that I'd come across that let me practice things that actually made sense as opposed to just following the instructor's lead because "he said so".

In every Systema class I've taken, when I asked the teacher "Why?" I received a legitimate answer based on leverage, body mechanics and physics - things that I could prove to myself right then - instead of, "Well, this works because 1000 years ago, someone killed someone else with a move that looked kind of like that". (which I have encountered)

And in contrast to some typical combative/sport systems - You mean I should just use the amount of force and speed that is appropriate to do the job instead of _clench all my muscles all the time while moving 100 miles per hour and grinding my teeth until the capillaries in my eyeballs rupture_? (intentional run-on sentence)

Systema's approach to conflict resolution seemed the obvious solution to me. I use efficient principles of movement and appropriate tension in everything I do now. Better results, less strain...all good.

Oh, and NYCRonin, send me a PM with your current Email address. We need to get together sometime soon, amigo.


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## Franc0

Jackal said:
			
		

> Be efficient
> Be direct
> Be creative
> Right thinking=right action
> 
> Systema is about creative problem solving based on intuition and improvization.


 
Yep, I'd say that about sums it up to me. Great post.

Franco


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## NYCRonin

Masterfinger!
What a blast from the past! 
Glad your still around, Bro.
*****

Ok.
Systema is as Jackal describes...but it is kinda hard to define it, true? You also write from long time experience in this method.

I would ask you, Jackal  - in fact, ALL who have been far too absent here...like myself:
How do 'you' define, initally; 'Systema'?

To those who might know zero about what we 'do' - on the floor and in life...24/7/365.

Bob Hubbard has been generous to give RMA followers a very virgin ground to develop. I admit, I have been a very crappy farmer, here.
I would like to do better. 

As this site continues to grow and evolve - we must understand that there is a whole new group of 'seeking individuals'..those that know very little about RMA - and are most probably not going to go into old threads from years past. They mostly have limited time...and seek fresh input.
*****
Let all of the old crew give this one more try.

Jesse's description is correct to those already involved...and mine...quite dated.

SO....I ask my friends from the blasted past...consider the time since this site was once more fruitfull for the RMA community. ALL of it.
The Powells, Sonnons, Systemists.....can we not just try once more with a newer interested group?
*****

We can - ya'all know we can. Once more into the fray of the cyber martial world on this particular site. We all have a very neutral ground here. 

My older beginners definition - and Jackals more 'in present time' def. - fit but may not be clear, anymore. Its a new day.

Mr. Randal asked:
"Systema Basic Principles? If you could capture the essential Systema principles and concepts in ONE paragraph, what would they be?"

A better defininition for me - wold be:
"No principles..but one. Learning how to use my strengths and  - moreso accept - my weaknesess. In order to live a safer life endowed with better health and understanding of life overall. Finding a center of peace with myself, my fellow people - and my personal choice of what is spiritual to me. Individual results will vary - but personally - I am far more congruent to becoming my potential 'good person' - than I have ever been in previous decades of life and martial study. I have found a form of personal peace now - and heet harder than ever before - but desire not to need do so. Systema is prehaps the most odd martial method I have ever known...it leads on to forget about the 'box' and breath, move, relax and 'keep form' in all of life. (LOL - everything old is new again, to some readers). Its not about our teachers, its not really about simply 'combatives' - The System - is not about anyone but the living individual and all start and move from there."
******
PS - Yes Jackal..been too long apart. My suggestion is that you and I work towards a meeting at Edgars - or Marine Park....you, I, Alan, Tony, DaveR., RachelK. and anyone who wishes to show up! It would  require we work it all out - might take a few months. Are you up for something like this meeting of the crew..the new 'undesireables'..lol!?
Let me know - and we can make it happen.


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## RachelK

> PS - Yes Jackal..been too long apart. My suggestion is that you and I work towards a meeting at Edgars - or Marine Park....you, I, Alan, Tony, DaveR., RachelK. and anyone who wishes to show up! It would require we work it all out - might take a few months. Are you up for something like this meeting of the crew..the new 'undesireables'..lol!?
> Let me know - and we can make it happen.


I would love to get together with you guys and meet the other people you mentioned (Alan and Tony). I am sure Edgar and Peggy would let us meet at Fighthouse. I'm not entirely sure I can get to Marine Park with public transportation but if someone can provide directions, I'd be happy to go there, too. Or anywhere, really, to work with Rob and the crew. Just keep me in the loop and maybe we'll see each other soon. 
Best wishes,
Rachel


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## NYCRonin

A FightHouse meet would be cool...Marine Park is easily accessable also.
Consider yourself on the 'list'.
Anyone else?


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## Jackal

Sounds like fun.


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## Brian King

*Jonathan Randall wrote*


> "If you could capture the essential Systema principles and concepts in ONE paragraph, what would they be?"


 
poznai sebia another name for the system which translates to know yourself or my favorite translation discover yourself.

See you on the floor soon
Friends
Brian King


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## NYCRonin

Zenner and Zennier!
VERY cool, Bri.


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## Jonathan Randall

Brian said:
			
		

> poznai sebia another name for the system which translates to know yourself or my favorite translation discover yourself.
> 
> See you on the floor soon
> Friends
> Brian King


 
Yes, I could see that - particularly with Systema. When I watched the first set of Vasiliev tapes and read from his online forum, the idea of "discovery" was certainly on my mind. Good point.


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## Mark Jakabcsin

First and foremost Systema is a life system, teaching the student about humanity. One can quickly learn that focusing solely on martial physical skills limits ones potential and opportunities. By learning about humanity in general and ourselves specifically we greatly enhance our potential in all things, including martial skill. 

MJ


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