# Formal Education



## Simon Curran (Mar 27, 2005)

Hi all,
I am starting this thread just out of plain curiosity, and because another thread got me thinking (namely the thread about multiple intelligences)
There appear to be a lot of very well educated people on the boards here, and I was just wondering if my observation rings true.

Please feel free to elaborate, or if you prefer just vote anonimously.
As for myself, I left school at the age of 16 and have no formal education beyond a Junior High equivalent, nor any vocational qualifications to speak of.
Thanks
Simon


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## dearnis.com (Mar 27, 2005)

Actually need a block between masters and PhD.; I dropped out while working on my dissertation.   Probably have enough hours picked up in different courses to go back and petition for a second bachelors in public safety at this point.


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## Simon Curran (Mar 27, 2005)

dearnis.com said:
			
		

> Actually need a block between masters and PhD.; I dropped out while working on my dissertation. Probably have enough hours picked up in different courses to go back and petition for a second bachelors in public safety at this point.


Didn't think of the "Somewhere in-between" option sir, if I could I would add it.


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## terryl965 (Mar 27, 2005)

Master in Mathematics and Minor in Physical Education.


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## Jaymeister (Mar 27, 2005)

Stopped after 10th grade, but I'm starting up again this summer though... You're never too old learn.


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## arnisador (Mar 27, 2005)

Somewhere in between the masters and doctorate includes the informal designation of ABD, which is probably what's appropriate for a poll like this, and more formal certifications like the Engineer's degree. Some masters degrees (e.g., the 3-year M.Arch. I) and some degrees labeled doctorate (e.g., the J.D.) are often considered to lie somewhere in-between.

I never left school and ended up with a Ph.D. (in Applied Mathematics). Now I'm in for life!


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## mj_lover (Mar 27, 2005)

1st year mechanical design, didn't know what to put, so i used high school, as it is my highest completed education


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## bignick (Mar 27, 2005)

I voted for Bachelor's Degree(Computer Science). I don't have it yet, but I see the light at the end of the tunnel, I only have three required classes left in my major.


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## Ping898 (Mar 27, 2005)

B.S. Mathematical Sciences and B.S. in Human and Computer Interaction.  Going to go back for Master's and Ph.D in a few years, not cause I really want to, but in the field I am interested in you can't get anywhere without the pieces of paper on your wall.


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## Tgace (Mar 27, 2005)

MFA Graphic Design.....dont ask.


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## Feisty Mouse (Mar 27, 2005)

tgace - lol, why "don't ask?"  That's kewl.

Me - another ABD, in a PhD program at the mo.


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## Simon Curran (Mar 27, 2005)

Ping898 said:
			
		

> B.S. Mathematical Sciences and B.S. in Human and Computer Interaction. Going to go back for Master's and Ph.D in a few years, not cause I really want to, but in the field I am interested in you can't get anywhere without the pieces of paper on your wall.


I think that is an interesting point, it seems that a lot of times these days that an education is something that is needed more for getting a job than it is for personal enlightenment, as for myself I still wish that I could have gotten some level of higher education, however these days I don't think my bank manager would be too impressed if I went back to full time study...
I have been seriously considering applying for an open university course, so that I could study in my free time, but they seem to be painfully expensive...


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## Simon Curran (Mar 28, 2005)

No takers as yet on the vocational education thing?

No trade trained plumbers/builders etc?


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## dearnis.com (Mar 28, 2005)

MFA????   :idunno:  :idunno:


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## Tgace (Mar 28, 2005)

Masters Fine Arts: Graphic Design....I said "dont ask".


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## Simon Curran (Mar 28, 2005)

Tgace said:
			
		

> Masters Fine Arts: Graphic Design....I said "dont ask".


Sounds intriguing never the less.:ultracool


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## Deuce (Mar 28, 2005)

BASc in engineering


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## OUMoose (Mar 28, 2005)

B.S. in Computer Information Systems, Magna Cum Laude. 

Will probably go for an MBA, but not till I get my school loan knocked down a little.


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## Blindside (Mar 28, 2005)

B.S. - Wildlife Science
M.S. - Forest Ecosystem Analysis


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## Feisty Mouse (Mar 28, 2005)

Tgace said:
			
		

> Masters Fine Arts: Graphic Design....I said "dont ask".


Oh, the temptation is killing me....

"tgace, how'd yuou end up with an MFA in Graphic Design?"

*hides behind bunker*


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## hardheadjarhead (Mar 28, 2005)

I knew a cop who played classical guitar.

They can be sensitive souls, you know.  Refined.  Cultured.


Regards,


Steve


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## dearnis.com (Mar 28, 2005)

Yeah.  And I have degrees in philosphy and classical history.  But I'm still laughing at the MFA thing.  Laughing so hard, in fact, that I may not be able to hold .25 MOA at 800 yards....


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## Gin-Gin (Mar 28, 2005)

B.A. in English 

Would love to go back & get the Master's degree, but I don't think I could live on Ramen noodles & microwave popcorn again (which I did for 5 yrs while earning the first one) so my "postgrad" education is Kenpo!


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## Tgace (Mar 28, 2005)

Feisty Mouse said:
			
		

> Oh, the temptation is killing me....
> 
> "tgace, how'd yuou end up with an MFA in Graphic Design?"
> 
> *hides behind bunker*


Lets just say Im a prime example of the "problem" with expecting 18 yo high school students to know what they want to do with the rest of their lives....


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## Feisty Mouse (Mar 28, 2005)

Tgace said:
			
		

> Lets just say Im a prime example of the "problem" with expecting 18 yo high school students to know what they want to do with the rest of their lives....


Hey, I've met 40-year-old + folks who don't know what they want to do with the rest of their lives...!


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## Tgace (Mar 28, 2005)

True, and many of them are probably still paying (student loans) for that indecision. While I dont regret my education in the least, I could have saved some serious $$ if I did a little more "living" in the real world before going off to College.


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## dearnis.com (Mar 28, 2005)

amen!


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## Dronak (Mar 29, 2005)

I just completed my PhD in astronomy in December.  If anyone was following my thread(s) about my training in the CMA forum, you're probably already aware of that.  I'm currently looking for a job (still) and hoping to find a good one soon.  It's kind of nice to see that I'm not the only doctor on the board.  The lower level degrees are MS in astronomy, and BS in astronomy and astrophysics with a minor in physics.

I thought the poll was for education completed, so I was wondering why people were complaining about in-between levels not existing.  But on a second look I realized it just asked about the level of education.  In between levels might be nice and more accurate, but I'm not sure it's really necessary.  You can vote for the highest level you've completed and comment that you're working on a higher degree.  Otherwise we'd probably need "some college" between HS and bachelors, "some grad school" between bachelors and masters, and "all but dissertation" or something between masters and doctorate.  It could be a bit cluttered if you try to allow for the "some" levels.


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## arnisador (Mar 29, 2005)

How's your job search going *Dronak*? We just lost a physicist and so are hiring for one. I'm going to be on sabbatical next year and am looking forward to that.

Speaking of education, my son goes to college in 3 years and wants to study English. I'm trying to convince him that accounting is just as interesting but pays better!


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## Simon Curran (Mar 29, 2005)

Dronak, good luck with your job search, and I was really interested in general, not necessarily on completed courses, but that was why I was hoping people would leave comments.


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## Dronak (Mar 30, 2005)

Well, the job search isn't going all that well right now.  I've actually been looking for something since fall 2003, about a year before I planned to finish.  I didn't get any of the research post-docs or fellowships I applied for during that year or so.  When I finished up, I decided that I was sick of research and didn't really want to do it again (at least not right now), so I shifted to looking for something in a teaching area or just not research.  It's been a few months since I've been in that mode and still nothing.  I have some applications out that I haven't heard back from yet; two with the FBI and one teaching at a community college.  In the meantime, I'm still looking and hoping to find something good soon.  A friend gave me a few ideas of places to look, so I'll have to check them out.  I've been doing OK so far, but I am going to have to get *something* pretty soon, before the money in my checking account is all used up.  I don't want to have to dip into savings to live.


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## still learning (Mar 30, 2005)

Hello, Just AS degree in Sales and Marketing. As we age we all get different kinds of working experiences and so call" common sense" which all employers want from us.

 Formal education is good, but today you want a person who can get along and do his job on the above average. Someone who is willing to go above and beyond his work duties. Does this sound like "US" whew? I glad to be a part of this group. Now I got to get back to work? .......Aloha


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## Feisty Mouse (Mar 31, 2005)

Dronak said:
			
		

> Well, the job search isn't going all that well right now. I've actually been looking for something since fall 2003, about a year before I planned to finish. I didn't get any of the research post-docs or fellowships I applied for during that year or so. When I finished up, I decided that I was sick of research and didn't really want to do it again (at least not right now), so I shifted to looking for something in a teaching area or just not research. It's been a few months since I've been in that mode and still nothing. I have some applications out that I haven't heard back from yet; two with the FBI and one teaching at a community college. In the meantime, I'm still looking and hoping to find something good soon. A friend gave me a few ideas of places to look, so I'll have to check them out. I've been doing OK so far, but I am going to have to get *something* pretty soon, before the money in my checking account is all used up. I don't want to have to dip into savings to live.


Good luck ~ I've been looking around for something, since funding is drying up at the university and I'll have to leave my program, and it is not easy - people either think I'm over-qualified, or I don't have the right label on my degree.  *sigh*  Hope you get something good!


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## mj-hi-yah (Mar 31, 2005)

MA + post studies in Education.  Formal education is good, but seeking learning opportunities in general, common sense and good communication/people skills are equally important in life I think.


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## hardheadjarhead (Mar 31, 2005)

dearnis.com said:
			
		

> Yeah.  And I have degrees in philosphy and classical history.  But I'm still laughing at the MFA thing.  Laughing so hard, in fact, that I may not be able to hold .25 MOA at 800 yards....




Ah!  But you see?  You are a Renaissance Centurion...a cultured and refined man of the mean streets, as it were.  I won't tell anyone if you drink Cafe Au Lait with your donuts.  At least I won't snicker when I do.

Back to topic...I don't recall if I posted I have a bachelor's in Journalism and English.  Double major...and  about sixty hours of grad school without a masters yet.  I kept switching programs.  I too was an MFA candidate...creative writing.  Never got the degree, as I drank my muse to death.


Regards,


Steve


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## Tgace (Mar 31, 2005)

I have been known to quote Shakespeare while zapping people with a Taser..."Cry Havoc!! yadda yadda"


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## Flatlander (Mar 31, 2005)

Alas, I have only my grade 12.  I made an attempt at university, but hadn't the perseverance to see it through.  Also, partying took up far too much of my time.

For the rest of my life I shall pay the price for my whimsical nature, plodding along in the perpetual parade of unintentional mediocrity.


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## Feisty Mouse (Mar 31, 2005)

Flatlander said:
			
		

> Alas, I have only my grade 12. I made an attempt at university, but hadn't the perseverance to see it through. Also, partying took up far too much of my time.
> 
> For the rest of my life I shall pay the price for my whimsical nature, plodding along in the perpetual parade of unintentional mediocrity.


lol - mediocre?  _Whatever_!  (insert out-thrust palm, eye-roll, neck-swivel, and hip motion)

We *heart* you just the way you are, anyways.


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## Tgace (Mar 31, 2005)

[forrest gump] Mediocre is as mediocre does. [/forrest gump]


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## hardheadjarhead (Mar 31, 2005)

Tgace said:
			
		

> I have been known to quote Shakespeare while zapping people with a Taser..."Cry Havoc!! yadda yadda"



Of course.  "Lay on, MacDuff!  And damned be he who cries "hold, enough!'"  Bzzzzt!  I think you could likely fine something that would fit peppergas applications, too.  Maybe something Falstaff said...I'd have to check.


Flatlander, your lack of a degree in no way inhibits your mental prowress.  I wouldn't use mediocrity to describe your educational level.  Some of the best educated men I've met never went past grade 12.

Regards,


Steve


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## Flatlander (Mar 31, 2005)

hardheadjarhead said:
			
		

> Flatlander, your lack of a degree in no way inhibits your mental prowress.


Why, thank you for your kind words, Steve. :asian: 





			
				hardheadjarhead said:
			
		

> I wouldn't use mediocrity to describe your educational level. Some of the best educated men I've met never went past grade 12.


Yes, in fact, they and I went to separate schools together. Most of them are either my age, or older or younger.


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## Dronak (Mar 31, 2005)

That's true.  Your intelligence is independent of the degree you hold.  I'm sure there are intelligent people without advanced degrees and some people with advanced degrees that make you wonder how they got them.  If the job you want doesn't require a high level degree, there's no real reason for you to try to get one, is there?  There's nothing wrong with that.  Different people take different paths in life and spending a long time in formal schooling isn't best for everyone.  So don't be so concerned about it.

BTW, since I'm writing, I might add a little comment, something people seem to miss/forget sometimes.  Frequently, the higher the degree, the more specialized it is.  High school basically finishes out your basic education requirements, knowing something about everything.  When you move to college and a bachelors degree, you're doing almost the same thing, but picking one field to focus on.  So your education is still pretty well-rounded.  Moving on to grad school means more specialization.  At the masters level, you're studying only one field and at the PhD level, you're studying only one small area of that field.  So someone with a PhD still has a bachelors level knowledge in almost everything outside his/her main field of study.  Sometimes I think people put PhDs higher than they really are.  Yes, it takes a heck of a lot of work to reach that level, but it's a very specialized degree; the general knowledge of PhDs is still normally at a BS/BA level, just like many other people.  FWIW.


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## Colin_Linz (Mar 31, 2005)

As for me it was Vocational. I left school half way through year 12, this was a mutual decision between me and the Principle. I did my trade training in Automotive Engineering and worked in the Marine and Automotive industry as a mechanic until joining the Air Force. I did a number of training courses but not at degree level. I have a done many post trade courses, coaching courses in Martial Arts and Cycling, my Senior First Aid, cert 3 in Front Line Management and a cert4 in Workplace Training and Assessing. At the moment I am doing my Bachelor of Further Education and Training. It took me about 35 years to understand the value of education and to develop any desire to do any. It would be fair to say Im a little slow.


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## Chronuss (Mar 31, 2005)

with the networking and telecommunication field...employers want those years of experience and certifications, having degree is just icing on the cake to them.  the only problem I'm having is that the school I attend does not offer any classes related to Cisco, and that's really hurting me.  the only place I can get any training with Cisco and the protocols would be a local vocational school, which I'm definately going to have to look into.  one of the other things I don't have any training with is DNS Zones, simply because our networking lab has no use of primary or secondary zones because we don't have multiple DNS servers to work with, not to mention the school is losing one of the best networking and CS professors they have.


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## bignick (Mar 31, 2005)

That's too bad...my networking professor is the coolest guy ever. He definitely defies the norm of "specialized" PhD. Frickin' genius. He's a bit of a tree hugger too. At one point a while ago I guess he was working on really advanced routing and communication algorithms. Then he discovered what his research target was. It was to be used to for groups of missiles to intercommunicate and have almost a distributed AI so they could sacrifice an acceptable number of themselves while still delivering maximum payload to the target. He left that pretty quick and quietly went back to routing garbage trucks.


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## mj-hi-yah (Mar 31, 2005)

Dan you are a PHD in my book! :idea: You are a real thinker, and therefore I dub you ~ Docta of the Study!  I don't even really like going in there :anic: ...


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## Chronuss (Mar 31, 2005)

bignick said:
			
		

> That's too bad...my networking professor is the coolest guy ever.


so is Larry...unfortunately Shepherd is losing him to the University of Maryland and their security graduate program...he keeps teasing us about friggin' Tanenbaum and how he's going to torture them with that book.  he's also the only CS professor that actually helps place students into jobs, with the count currently at 851 students placed since he's taught at Shepherd.


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## Simon Curran (Mar 31, 2005)

I must say that I do agree with the folks who have stated that education and intelligence don't necessarily go hand in hand, there just seems to be a tendency to believe that a person with no education is automatically 'tick, altough I know people with no education who can fet around just about any problem, I would have thought that in itself represents a certain level of intelligence.

Conversly I also know of some highly educated people who struggle to tie their own shoe laces...


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## mj-hi-yah (Apr 1, 2005)

SIMONCURRAN said:
			
		

> I must say that I do agree with the folks who have stated that education and intelligence don't necessarily go hand in hand, there just seems to be a tendency to believe that a person with no education is automatically 'tick, altough I know people with no education who can fet around just about any problem, I would have thought that in itself represents a certain level of intelligence.
> 
> Conversly I also know of some highly educated people who struggle to tie their own shoe laces...


How do you define intelligence?  Do you define it by success in terms of wealth, in terms of personal satisfaction, contribution to society, the ability to do the New York Times crossword puzzle?   How important is having street smarts?  How important are book smarts?  What about communication skills? Who is to say which of these traits are more important?  Does getting a formal education guarantee you success in life?  



First there are no guarantees.  Having a high IQ, or college degrees alone do not guarantee a person financial or other successes in life.  Some of the people that I know that I consider to be the most intelligent never went to college, maybe because they saw a path that suited them better and brought them personal success in a more efficient way.  Some highly creative thinkers find formal schooling limiting, boring and stifling of their ability to engage in divergent thought.  I know a person who is extremely interesting, a fantastic musician, a master chess player; self taught computer wiz and world traveler who can converse on almost any topic.  He never went to college, keeps little in terms of material goods and lives a relatively simple but very happy life with very few hassles, maybe he's the smartest!  I have two relatives who are filthy rich, and neither one went to college.  If you define intelligence by financial success and business savvy, they win in my book.   I have another relative who has an enviable photographic memory, is involved in neuroscience and is a lifetime student with more initials after her name than can fit on a business card.  I consider her to be highly intelligent in terms of "book smarts" and she has made very valuable contributions to society, but yet is very lacking in common sense.  For example, she lives on a busy road and has had two cats die because they were run over by cars, yet can't understand why her last cat escaped from her yard because she told me, "But I put a fence around the yard!"  I mean _HELLO!_ :uhyeah:  *giggle* I know a doctor (scientist) who is a specialist in terms of reading and diagnosing cancer from slides.  He is very financially successful, but so painfully lacking in communication skills and is so introverted that it is painful for him to carry on a conversation with anyone, unless it concerns his area of expertise and even then it's a struggle.  I would say he is socially limited.  It's hard to measure even if he is really happy or not.  



So to me formal education can be a vehicle through which people can enhance their ability to get good paying jobs, and may serve them well in terms of intellectual stimulation and job satisfaction, and all this may lead to personal satisfaction, but it is not a guarantee of happiness, and may not serve as well as having common sense and good people skills.  Just because a person is not formally educated does not make them any less intelligent or valuable, and in some cases it may be a sign of great/greater intelligence. :asian:


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## Mark L (Apr 1, 2005)

BS, MS in Elec. Engineering.


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## KenpoTex (Apr 2, 2005)

B.S. in Criminal Justice with some extra misc. credits for Psych. and pre-law (was going to double major/double minor/whatever, before I got sick of college).


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## TonyM. (Apr 2, 2005)

B.S. Human services, psycology minor. Certificates in production, motion and time study and Delivering the Human services.
Now you know why you can comfide in your bartender.


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## Simon Curran (Apr 2, 2005)

TonyM. said:
			
		

> B.S. Human services, psycology minor. Certificates in production, motion and time study and Delivering the Human services.
> Now you know why you can comfide in your bartender.


:roflmao:


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## Makalakumu (Apr 19, 2005)

I started college in 1995 and couldn't decide what I wanted to do, so I did everything.  Ten years and thousands of dollars later...  

Minor - Creative Writing (2000)
BS - Biology (2000)
BS - Geology (2001)
Minor - Chemistry (2001)
Minor - Physics (2001)
BS - Physics (Finished last summer 2004)
MS - Education (Just finished my thesis 2005)

Phd - Geology? - In a few years, I'll jump into this...

I have always been good at school and I have always liked learning.  I need to wait until my children are older before I can tackle any more school.  Having two babies and working on a Physics and Master's degree at the same time _has been a little difficult_...

 :whip:  :xtrmshock  :mrtoilet:  :fanboy:  :uhohh:  :wah:    :anic:  :idea:  :erg:  :waah:  :duel:  :drinkbeer  :idunno: 

All of the above at the very same time pretty much sums it up...

upnorthkyosa


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## dubljay (Apr 19, 2005)

Currently working on my bachelors degree in Mechanical Engineering and considering a minor in math.


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## rainbows (Apr 19, 2005)

In my third year of a BSc in mathematical physics, and hating it. Switching to a BSc computer science program in September, I'll go into the 2nd year of that. I have no idea what I want to do when I leave college, apart from lots of TKD.


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## Shodan (Apr 20, 2005)

I have a Bachelor's degree in Child Development and minors in Family Relations and Psychology.


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## TimoS (Apr 20, 2005)

I guess my educational equivalent would be B.Sc. I "specialized" in telecommunications, although for us the "specialization" was two or three different courses over a four year period. I have worked with mobile networks almost ever since, although now I'm working more closely with mobiles (and trying desparately to find a new job, because this stuff is not for somebody with 10+ years of experience)


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## Ender (Apr 20, 2005)

BS in Electrical Engineering
minor in Architecture

Masters in Business Administration

Realtor's License

Currently working on a CFP (Certificate in Financial Planning)


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