# Rank advancement in BJJ



## PhotonGuy (Mar 22, 2015)

What I've heard about how rank advancement in BJJ works, that once you're able to hold your own against people of a higher belt, that is when you get that higher belt. Generally it takes 2 1/2 years to advance in belt, longer than in most other styles, but there is no formal testing. How well you regularly perform in training against other students of a higher belt, that is your test. So is this how advancement works?


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## Danny T (Mar 22, 2015)

As in several other threads where you have asked about rank it varies from organization to organization, school to school, and instructor to instructor.


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## Tony Dismukes (Mar 22, 2015)

PhotonGuy said:


> What I've heard about how rank advancement in BJJ works, that once you're able to hold your own against people of a higher belt, that is when you get that higher belt. Generally it takes 2 1/2 years to advance in belt, longer than in most other styles, but there is no formal testing. How well you regularly perform in training against other students of a higher belt, that is your test. So is this how advancement works?


As Danny points out, it does vary from teacher to teacher. However, what you have laid out is a reasonable summary of how many, possibly most,  BJJ schools handle promotions.

Some teachers do have formal testing. Some even do it in the way that would be familiar to practitioners of other arts - having to demonstrate a set list of techniques. Others just have the student grapple a series of sparring partners so the teacher can watch how well they are doing. Others just announce the promotion with no test at all.

Teachers may also require that a student demonstrate well-roundedness in their grappling ability. A blue belt might be consistently able to hang with the purple belts, but if he has a strong top game and weak bottom game (or vice versa), he might not get promoted.

Another consideration is how a student is winning his matches. If he is hanging with the upper belts by virtue of athletic attributes rather than technical skill, he may not be promoted so quickly. By the same token, a 60 year old 100 pound woman is not expected to be beating a 20 year old 200 pound man of the same rank to be promoted.

In addition, individual instructors may have a number of additional considerations they take into account: technical knowledge, character, teaching ability, and so on.


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## PhotonGuy (Mar 23, 2015)

Tony Dismukes said:


> Another consideration is how a student is winning his matches. If he is hanging with the upper belts by virtue of athletic attributes rather than technical skill, he may not be promoted so quickly. By the same token, a 60 year old 100 pound woman is not expected to be beating a 20 year old 200 pound man of the same rank to be promoted.
> .


The 60 year old 100 pound woman could be a weightlifter and the 100 pounds could all be muscle whereas the 20 year old 200 pound man could be totally out of shape and overweight and the 200 pounds could all be fat. So instead of judging by age, weight, or gender, I would judge by ability but that's just me.


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## Tony Dismukes (Mar 23, 2015)

PhotonGuy said:


> The 60 year old 100 pound woman could be a weightlifter and the 100 pounds could all be muscle whereas the 20 year old 200 pound man could be totally out of shape and overweight and the 200 pounds could all be fat. So instead of judging by age, weight, or gender, I would judge by ability but that's just me.



The point is that rank is typically awarded for technical skill, not physical attributes. (It's technically possible for a 60-year old 100 pound woman to be physically stronger than a 20-year old 200 pound man, but it's very unlikely.)

If you base promotions strictly on who can beat whom, then a NFL linebacker would be able to walk into a BJJ gym and get a black belt in under a year. Conversely,  someone who was much smaller, older, or less physically gifted might never make it past blue belt.

If you can hold your own on the mat against someone who is twice as big, twice as strong, and half as old as you are, then you_ should_ be higher ranked than that person, if you are using rank as an indicator of skill.


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## kuniggety (Mar 24, 2015)

I've rolled at a few different schools as a guest. Only one had formal belt tests/predetermined rank requirements and it was a Gracie jiu-jitsu school. The rest have just been "when you're ready". I've seen people who roll at my school 4-5x a week (90 min classes) get their blue belt in about 1 1/2 yrs. I average around two... Sometimes more but sometimes none when I'm traveling, have been doing it for 2 yrs or so now, and I think I have a way to go before I get my blue belt. I am athletic in the first place and can, for the most part, destroy folks off the street, can easily guauge another white belt, and defend well against blue belts but I haven't had a lot of success tapping out the blue belts... They come rare so I'm thinking that's what my professor is waiting to see from me.

As an addendum, I am 6'2" ~190 lbs and fit... Working out several days a week on top of my BJJ. There is a blue belt in my class that I can regularly beat... But here's the kicker: they're a female and probably a good 50 lbs lighter than me. She can keep up with me way better though than I can a 250 lb guy who has grappling experience. That's why she has the blue belt. It's not just your ability to "beat" someone... It's all relative.


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## MJS (Mar 24, 2015)

PhotonGuy said:


> What I've heard about how rank advancement in BJJ works, that once you're able to hold your own against people of a higher belt, that is when you get that higher belt. Generally it takes 2 1/2 years to advance in belt, longer than in most other styles, but there is no formal testing. How well you regularly perform in training against other students of a higher belt, that is your test. So is this how advancement works?



One thing that I've seen in the BJJ gyms in my area, is the vast majority of people there, are there to train, have fun, learn the art, compete, get good at the art.  When the promotions happen, they happen.  It could be a formal test, it could be an informal test.  A good friend of mine tested for his Black Belt under Roy Harris.  He had a formal test.  He had to demonstrate numerous things, as well as roll with quite a few other advanced students.  It was a very technical test.  

My point is: as others said...it'll vary from gym to gym, organization to org.  People tend to focus more on getting better, rather than the color belt around their waist.  

Here's an example of the Roy Harris Blue Belt exam:
Blog Roy Harris - BJJ - Part 5


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## Buka (Mar 24, 2015)

Tony Dismukes said:


> If you base promotions strictly on who can beat whom, then a NFL linebacker would be able to walk into a BJJ gym and get a black belt in under a year. Conversely,  someone who was much smaller, older, or less physically gifted might never make it past blue belt



I completely understand your point, Tony. Which is a good one.
But as to the LB, I beg to differ, sir.


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## PhotonGuy (Mar 25, 2015)

Danny T said:


> As in several other threads where you have asked about rank it varies from organization to organization, school to school, and instructor to instructor.



I wasn't sure if there were that many independent BJJ schools. Some arts, or at least some schools that teach certain arts will sometimes function as part of a larger organization and some of the stuff such as rank advancement is controlled by said organization. Of course there can always be schools that teach the same art and function independently where everything is controlled by the school but I wasn't sure how common that is in BJJ. Im not sure if a BJJ school has to have connections to the Gracies although I assume many of them do but I believe that if a school advertises its art as BJJ it would not have to have any connections or regulations put in part by the Gracies although I have seen schools that use the Gracie name. When arts are taught by independent schools what sometimes happens is the art gets watered down in some of the schools and you get your so called McDojos. As it is, though, I believe that is very uncommon with BJJ if not nonexistent.


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## Drose427 (Mar 25, 2015)

PhotonGuy said:


> I wasn't sure if there were that many independent BJJ schools. Some arts, or at least some schools that teach certain arts will sometimes function as part of a larger organization and some of the stuff such as rank advancement is controlled by said organization. Of course there can always be schools that teach the same art and function independently where everything is controlled by the school but I wasn't sure how common that is in BJJ. Im not sure if a BJJ school has to have connections to the Gracies although I assume many of them do but I believe that if a school advertises its art as BJJ it would not have to have any connections or regulations put in part by the Gracies although I have seen schools that use the Gracie name. When arts are taught by independent schools what sometimes happens is the art gets watered down in some of the schools and you get your so called McDojos. As it is, though, I believe that is very uncommon with BJJ if not nonexistent.



You should check out more BJJ schools, its still fairly common.

When somethings popular, unqualified folks pop up to try and teach it.


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## Tony Dismukes (Mar 25, 2015)

PhotonGuy said:


> I wasn't sure if there were that many independent BJJ schools. Some arts, or at least some schools that teach certain arts will sometimes function as part of a larger organization and some of the stuff such as rank advancement is controlled by said organization. Of course there can always be schools that teach the same art and function independently where everything is controlled by the school but I wasn't sure how common that is in BJJ. Im not sure if a BJJ school has to have connections to the Gracies although I assume many of them do but I believe that if a school advertises its art as BJJ it would not have to have any connections or regulations put in part by the Gracies although I have seen schools that use the Gracie name. When arts are taught by independent schools what sometimes happens is the art gets watered down in some of the schools and you get your so called McDojos. As it is, though, I believe that is very uncommon with BJJ if not nonexistent.



There are lots of independent BJJ schools. Being connected (or not) to a larger organization isn't correlated with the quality of the school. Even those schools which do belong to a larger organization may not have much controlled by the parent organization. In many cases, belonging to the "BillyBob Gracie Team" just means that you get to use the organization's logo and have BillyBob come out to teach seminars twice a year. (There are some BJJ organizations that dictate curriculum and ranking standards for member schools, but I think they are in the minority.)

Just about all BJJ (with the exception of the Luiz França/Oswaldo Fadda lineage) does trace back to the Gracie family, but in some cases you have to go back a few steps to get there. Some of the best instructors out there did not learn directly from a Gracie or even from a Gracie student or a Gracie's student's student.

(BTW - the Gracie family is huge and many members of the family are often at odds with other members. Many of them have their own competing organizations.)


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## AlphaBJJ (Apr 12, 2015)

As has been stated, protocols vary.  On average, it should take about 1.5-2 years per belt to advance.  Again, this is without accounting for variables such as previous experience, the guy or gal who can train 6 days/ week, etc.  

Here's some recent thoughts I had on the subject at a striping promotion:






For us, this is pretty common for the actual practice of striping and belting.  Not a test, or major ordeal.


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## Buka (Apr 12, 2015)

AlphaBJJ said:


> As has been stated, protocols vary.  On average, it should take about 1.5-2 years per belt to advance.  Again, this is without accounting for variables such as previous experience, the guy or gal who can train 6 days/ week, etc.
> 
> Here's some recent thoughts I had on the subject at a striping promotion:
> 
> ...



Welcome to MT, bro.

I always loved nights like that one shown.


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## Tony Dismukes (Apr 13, 2015)

AlphaBJJ said:


> As has been stated, protocols vary.  On average, it should take about 1.5-2 years per belt to advance.  Again, this is without accounting for variables such as previous experience, the guy or gal who can train 6 days/ week, etc.
> 
> Here's some recent thoughts I had on the subject at a striping promotion:
> 
> ...


Welcome to Martial Talk. Hope you stick around and join the discussions.


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## AlphaBJJ (Apr 14, 2015)

Thanks guys.  Yeah, those nights are always really cool.  Getting to see the pay off of all the work is awesome!


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