# Atrial Fibrillation



## Bill Mattocks (Dec 10, 2021)

Just had my annual physical.  I was looking forward to it because I've lost a lot of weight recently (mostly thanks to Trulicity, which I have been taking for a while now for my diabetes), and my daily blood sugar tests have been looking pretty good.

All my numbers looked great, and the doctor was thrilled.  Every single indicator that had ever been high or borderline bad was now well within the good to excellent range.  Kidney and liver function excellent, all good.  The one very tiny issue was low potassium - doc told me to eat a banana.

However, my EKG shows Atrial Fibrillation.  This is new; I did not have it last year when tested, nor any year previously.  My resting pulse rate is in the 80s.  Doctor asked me if I have had any issues of light-headedness or dizzyness recently, and I have; mostly in the dojo but sometimes when I stand up from the couch after sitting for awhile.

He put me on a beta blocker and I've made an appointment with a cardiologist for a stress test, echo cardiogram, and I guess I have to wear a harness for a while.  Until then, I'm to keep my pulse rate under 150, which means no cardio in the dojo; even when I'm doing kata, if I get to breathing hard, I take a break.

It bothers me to be sitting down while everyone else is working out, but I don't really have a choice.  At least until I get a rundown from the cardiologist and hear what I need to be doing. 

It's always something, eh?


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## Flying Crane (Dec 10, 2021)

It is, always something.  Keep at it, be safe, work with what you’ve got.


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## Steve (Dec 10, 2021)

Sorry to hear this, Bill.  It's like the old saying, "Two steps forward, one step back."  Sounds like you're getting some good advice from the doctor, though.  Hope it turns out to be somewhat easy to manage.


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## Xue Sheng (Dec 10, 2021)

Sorry to hear that Bill, go with the doctors on this one


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## punisher73 (Dec 10, 2021)

I know we've never met in person, but I feel like I know you. lol

Prayers for you and the doctors as they figure out what's going on.


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## bill miller (Dec 10, 2021)

Good luck to you, sir. I've been there and you can beat it!


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## seasoned (Dec 10, 2021)

Thanks for sharing Bill, everyone is pulling for you. Sounds like everything else health wise is doing great.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Dec 10, 2021)

I believe 1 banana daily is a good idea. Would like to hear your stress test result. To have a doctor that you can trust is important.


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## _Simon_ (Dec 11, 2021)

Sorry to hear Bill.. but dang, that's seriously awesome news about everything else, really great to hear 

Hoping it's nothing too serious mate.


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## jks9199 (Dec 11, 2021)

My dad had atrial fibrilliation.  It's very treatable.  Meds might do it, or they can do ablation if necessary.


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## isshinryuronin (Dec 11, 2021)

Ditto on all the other posts.

Just as you fix one problem, another pops up.  Can't let life get_ too_ easy, huh?  I'm on a beta blocker and stay very active, so I hope your Doc gets you set up and back doing MA and other things they way you want. 

Keeping your pulse under 150 shouldn't be too hard - I'm sucking wind at that point.  Just self-monitor, not only heartbeat, but for red-face as well.  Have your sensei or other keep an eye out for you.  At our age we must trade some macho for common sense.   That's what my sensei tells me, but I confess it's a battle.


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## seasoned (Dec 11, 2021)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> I believe 1 banana daily is a good idea. Would like to hear your stress test result. To have a doctor that you can trust is important.


Yes, Magnesium ls essential....


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## dvcochran (Dec 11, 2021)

Bill Mattocks said:


> Just had my annual physical.  I was looking forward to it because I've lost a lot of weight recently (mostly thanks to Trulicity, which I have been taking for a while now for my diabetes), and my daily blood sugar tests have been looking pretty good.
> 
> All my numbers looked great, and the doctor was thrilled.  Every single indicator that had ever been high or borderline bad was now well within the good to excellent range.  Kidney and liver function excellent, all good.  The one very tiny issue was low potassium - doc told me to eat a banana.
> 
> ...





Bill Mattocks said:


> It's always something, eh?


I am scheduled for a routine stress test on the 16th. I am not aware of any issues so I am looking forward to getting the results. I do get winded quicker now, which gives me some of the symptoms you mentioned (dizziness, etc...) but I figure some of that just goes with age and not being as fit as I once was.  I have had a slightly low bp most of my life but never had to go on any medication. Hopefully that does not change.  

I hope all goes well for you going forward.


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## granfire (Dec 11, 2021)

there is to finding out now, and not on the way to the ER though. 
Keeping my fingers crossed for you!
(I did not follow through on my checkup, and paying for it now, but frankly, 2020 was not a good year to get an undivided eat from your healthcare provider)


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## Dirty Dog (Dec 11, 2021)

Bill, make sure your cardiologist understands about your MA activity. 
One of the standard pieces of A-Fib treatment is anti-coagulation. Which would put a big crimp in MA training. To continue with contact-activities, they really need to get you out of A-Fib (which is the easy part) and then keep you out of it. Beta-blockers and calcium-channel blockers are the front line meds. Generally, if they can't keep you out of A-Fib, you're anti-coagulated and use meds for rate control, and every thing is fine. But that would make any sort of sparring a Really Bad Idea. If medications can't stop the A-Fib, you might be a good candidate for ablation.


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## Oily Dragon (Dec 11, 2021)

Some light hearted heart humor.  The new Sex and the City show killed off a major character in the first episode...with a Peloton bike.  As much as it hurt to watch, I was so angry at how dangerously the character exercises.  I was yelling at the screen.

Que outrage from fans, Peloton stock plummets over 10%, and Dr. Suzanne Steinbaum (Peloton PR) has to issue a statement that the character probably lived longer because they rode a Peloton.

Nothing about the dangers of not cooling down properly after a 45m uphill ride.  Never get your heart that rapid and just stop.  Cooling down is just as important as warming up, when it comes to the heart.

Best of luck Bill.  I can't claim I have any experience with heart issues, but becoming "heart aware" is important at any age, and most people don't until it's too late.

Bananas, spinach and other leafy greens... but most of all WATER.  Without enough water, blood becomes thick.  Most people are chronically dehydrated, and the first time they tend to have a major issue is when their heart rhythm becomes erratic.


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## seasoned (Dec 11, 2021)

Oily Dragon said:


> Bananas, spinach and other leafy greens... but most of all WATER.  Without enough water, blood becomes thick.  Most people are chronically dehydrated, and the first time they tend to have a major issue is when their heart rhythm becomes erratic.


You bring up some great points. A few months ago before bed I didn't feel right. I took my pulse and it was all over the board. I took my blood pressure and it was 95/48 and I freaked out. My wife called the ambulance and off to the hospital I went. On my way the attendant's hooked me up with a saline drip, but the strange thing was by the time I arrived at the hospital and got all hooked up to monitor me they found nothing wrong. I stayed for 4 hours before releasing me.


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## Dirty Dog (Dec 11, 2021)

seasoned said:


> You bring up some great points. A few months ago before bed I didn't feel right. I took my pulse and it was all over the board. I took my blood pressure and it was 95/48 and I freaked out. My wife called the ambulance and off to the hospital I went. On my way the attendant's hooked me up with a saline drip, but the strange thing was by the time I arrived at the hospital and got all hooked up to monitor me they found nothing wrong. I stayed for 4 hours before releasing me.


The ambulance didn't do an EKG or put you on a monitor?


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## dvcochran (Dec 11, 2021)

seasoned said:


> You bring up some great points. A few months ago before bed I didn't feel right. I took my pulse and it was all over the board. I took my blood pressure and it was 95/48 and I freaked out. My wife called the ambulance and off to the hospital I went. On my way the attendant's hooked me up with a saline drip, but the strange thing was by the time I arrived at the hospital and got all hooked up to monitor me they found nothing wrong. I stayed for 4 hours before releasing me.


Mine has been as low as 70/40. When it does that it will make me feel pretty stupid and slow. I have never had a diagnosis that said "this is why or this is the problem" just lived with it. Honestly, have not been checked beyond a routine annual for a long time so the stress test was recommended. Hopefully just a precaution. 
On the upside I rarely have headaches, even with lousy vision. My doctor low bp helps.


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## seasoned (Dec 11, 2021)

Dirty Dog said:


> The ambulance didn't do an EKG or put you on a monitor?


Yes, in the ambulance and the whole time I was in the hospital. By the time I got to the hospital everything stabilized and they could not duplicate it. Toward the end of my stay they had me walk the halls.


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## Xue Sheng (Dec 11, 2021)

seasoned said:


> You bring up some great points. A few months ago before bed I didn't feel right. I took my pulse and it was all over the board. I took my blood pressure and it was 95/48 and I freaked out. My wife called the ambulance and off to the hospital I went. On my way the attendant's hooked me up with a saline drip, but the strange thing was by the time I arrived at the hospital and got all hooked up to monitor me they found nothing wrong. I stayed for 4 hours before releasing me.



I was in the ER with symptoms of a myocardial infarction on a few occasions, they never found anything. Finally one rather smart MD check a few other things and told me it was acid reflux. It is a bit disconcerting though, even knowing that, when you start getting all those symptoms and have to sit here debating..should I go to the ER...or should I stay home. Generally a shot of Apple Cider Vinegar calms it down. 

I did get a ride in a ambulance on June 12, right after my knee replacement, if I stood up, or for that matter sat up straight, I passed out because my blood pressure was 90/30...they found out it was the pain meds I was on for the knee...


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## geezer (Dec 11, 2021)

Hey Bill, I'm in the same boat.

I was diagnosed with A-Fib last year and they put me on a beta-blocker (atenolol). It seemed to be working for a while but it made me lethargic and contributed to a _significant _weight gain. A couple of months back they put me on a harness and determined that the beta blocker wasn't sufficiently controlling my condition and switched me to another med, flecanide.

I have been self monitoring with my apple watch and it looks like the new med is not doing the job either, as I'm still getting intermittent bouts of A-fib and other weird, irregular heart rhythms ...like jumping form 65 BPM to 140 BPM for a couple of minutes while resting. Less than an optimal situation.

I'm especially concerned because of the risk of stroke associated with A-fib. My older brother has already had a couple of them, the first when he was about age. He was Ivy league and Oxford educated. Unlike him, I don't have the brain cells to spare!

I'm due to see my cardiologist again next Friday. I'm hoping he will have some solutions. Meanwhile I'm still doing MA, but in a physically _very conservative_ way.


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## isshinryuronin (Dec 11, 2021)

Dirty Dog said:


> Bill, make sure your cardiologist understands about your MA activity.
> One of the standard pieces of A-Fib treatment is anti-coagulation. Which would put a big crimp in MA training. To continue with contact-activities, they really need to get you out of A-Fib (which is the easy part) and then keep you out of it. Beta-blockers and calcium-channel blockers are the front line meds. Generally, if they can't keep you out of A-Fib, you're anti-coagulated and use meds for rate control, and every thing is fine. But that would make any sort of sparring a Really Bad Idea. If medications can't stop the A-Fib, you might be a good candidate for ablation.


Absolutely true.  Important point, thanks.  Depending on how you train, just telling the doctor you work out will not give you a proper medical opinion.  I've eased off this year, but two and three years ago my training was old time (pre WWII) Okinawan style _INTENSE_, especially at my age.  My sensei was correct that my cardiologist likely had no concept about the kind of training I was engaged in.  I emphasized the robustness of the training, but my doc seemed OK with it.  Still, I thought it wise to cut back to a "normal" training regimen.

I also am on blood thinner, and it does require some special attention when in the dojo.  Often, I get bulging hematomas on my forearms from blocking, or getting blocked.  Freaks my wife out.  I have to hide bruises to my ribs from her.  They take a couple of weeks to go away.  My wife insists I wear the arm pads my sensei gave me for this reason, but this is a case of macho winning out over common sense.  I do wear a cotton arm sleeve, more to keep my gi sleeve from getting bloody than for actual protection, but I think it does help minimize skin abrasions.

Worse, my skin has thinned and occasionally tears from impact to my arm causing a LOT of (surface) bleeding.  I don't notice it till someone points out my gi sleeve is bright red.  Of course it was a new KI brand heavyweight requiring a replacement purchase. (I have a blood stain remover, but this was beyond hope).  Luckily, I've so far escaped the bloody nose that is sure to be a gusher.  I carry plenty of gauze and blood clot patches in my bag. Though we practice knife work, even if I win an actual fight, I'll probably bleed out from "incidental" cuts. 

So, there are some trials and tribulations of getting old - some parts we can fight and delay the inevitable, some parts we must accept and adapt to.


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## Oily Dragon (Dec 11, 2021)

The 13th precept of Musashi's Dokkodo comes to mind.

"13. Do not pursue the taste of good food. "

Harsh, master.  But true.


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## Steve (Dec 11, 2021)

geezer said:


> Hey Bill, I'm in the same boat.
> 
> I was diagnosed with A-Fib last year and they put me on a beta-blocker (atenolol). It seemed to be working for a while but it made me lethargic and contributed to a _significant _weight gain. A couple of months back they put me on a harness and determined that the beta blocker wasn't sufficiently controlling my condition and switched me to another med, flecanide.
> 
> ...


My wife takes that too.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Dec 11, 2021)

I have just finished 3 miles running this afternoon. My BP is 113/74 10 minutes ago.

This is why at the age of 74, I still want to maintain my 3 miles running. I believe it's good for my heart. When the fresh air go into my lung, I can feel that I'm in heaven.

Does running improve heart health?





Overtime, running strengthens the walls of the heart, which increases its overall efficiency.” *Running minimizes your heart's workload*. Because runners have stronger hearts, they typically have a lower resting pulse rate and intake a higher amount of oxygen.Jul 28, 2016


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## Bill Mattocks (Dec 12, 2021)

I failed to mention that my youngest sister died last month of a heart attack, at age 54. My father had a heart attack at 55 which ultimately killed him. I'm 61.


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## jks9199 (Dec 12, 2021)

Bill Mattocks said:


> I failed to mention that my youngest sister died last month of a heart attack, at age 54. My father had a heart attack at 55 which ultimately killed him. I'm 61.


Very sorry for your loss, Bill.

With your family history -- your cardiologist should be paying attention.


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## Xue Sheng (Dec 12, 2021)

Bill Mattocks said:


> I failed to mention that my youngest sister died last month of a heart attack, at age 54. My father had a heart attack at 55 which ultimately killed him. I'm 61.


Sorry to hear that Bill. 

If it is any consolation, both of my maternal grandparents died of heat issues in their 70s. My uncle, their oldest son died of heart issues in his 60s. His younger brother just passed away recently in his mid 90s, nothing to do with heart issues, and their younger sister, my mother is in her 90s and still doing ok, no heart issues.


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## dvcochran (Dec 12, 2021)

Bill Mattocks said:


> I failed to mention that my youngest sister died last month of a heart attack, at age 54. My father had a heart attack at 55 which ultimately killed him. I'm 61.


So sorry for you loss. Take care of yourself.

We were at the funeral of a friend who died at 50 from a heart attack. Heart disease runs in their family, and he did not live a life that helped prevent it.


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## Dirty Dog (Dec 12, 2021)

seasoned said:


> Yes, in the ambulance and the whole time I was in the hospital. By the time I got to the hospital everything stabilized and they could not duplicate it. Toward the end of my stay they had me walk the halls.


Duplicate what, would be the question. As in, what did the ambulance see that the ER didn't?


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## Bill Mattocks (Dec 12, 2021)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> I have just finished 3 miles running this afternoon. My BP is 113/74 10 minutes ago.
> 
> This is why at the age of 74, I still want to maintain my 3 miles running. I believe it's good for my heart. When the fresh air go into my lung, I can feel that I'm in heaven.
> 
> ...


Running isn't in my future, thanks.  Lots of reasons for it.  I understand you're in good health, that's great.


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## JowGaWolf (Dec 12, 2021)

Bill Mattocks said:


> Just had my annual physical.  I was looking forward to it because I've lost a lot of weight recently (mostly thanks to Trulicity, which I have been taking for a while now for my diabetes), and my daily blood sugar tests have been looking pretty good.
> 
> All my numbers looked great, and the doctor was thrilled.  Every single indicator that had ever been high or borderline bad was now well within the good to excellent range.  Kidney and liver function excellent, all good.  The one very tiny issue was low potassium - doc told me to eat a banana.
> 
> ...


Famous martial arts saying. "Life gets on the way"


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## Kung Fu Wang (Dec 12, 2021)

Bill Mattocks said:


> Running isn't in my future, thanks.  Lots of reasons for it.  I understand you're in good health, that's great.


Will you consider walking instead? A friend of mine had high A1C. He started to walk 4 miles daily and his A1C come back down normal.


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## Bill Mattocks (Dec 12, 2021)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> Will you consider walking instead? A friend of mine had high A1C. He started to walk 4 miles daily and his A1C come back down normal.


You don't know my situation. Thank you for your suggestions.


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## seasoned (Dec 12, 2021)

Dirty Dog said:


> Duplicate what, would be the question. As in, what did the ambulance see that the ER didn't?





seasoned said:


> You bring up some great points. A few months ago before bed I didn't feel right. I took my *pulse and it was all over the board.* I took my* blood pressure and it was 95/48* and I freaked out. My wife called the ambulance and off to the hospital I went. On my way the attendant's hooked me up with a saline drip, but the strange thing was by the time I arrived at the hospital and got all hooked up to monitor me they found nothing wrong. I stayed for 4 hours before releasing me.


At this point they saw symptoms pertaining to the original call, high lighted above. As you know, Standard procedure, is to monitor from the ambulance and transfer info to hospital. Saline was given but, by the time we reached the hospital they could not "duplicate", as in see the symptoms from the original call.


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## dvcochran (Dec 13, 2021)

seasoned said:


> At this point they saw symptoms pertaining to the original call, high lighted above. As you know, Standard procedure, is to monitor from the ambulance and transfer info to hospital. Saline was given but, by the time we reached the hospital they could not "duplicate", as in see the symptoms from the original call.


The way you explain the event it really makes me wonder if dehydration was at play. I can't count the times I have seen it make a body do some really weird stuff. 
I really have to be conscious about staying dehydrated. I do feel it has something to do with reduced activity as we get older. We don't 'crave' water like we once did, yet our body still needs the intake. Even though we may not need the water replacement due to sweating, we need the hydration for filtration and such.


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## KungfukennyG (Dec 14, 2021)

Bill Mattocks said:


> Just had my annual physical.  I was looking forward to it because I've lost a lot of weight recently (mostly thanks to Trulicity, which I have been taking for a while now for my diabetes), and my daily blood sugar tests have been looking pretty good.
> 
> All my numbers looked great, and the doctor was thrilled.  Every single indicator that had ever been high or borderline bad was now well within the good to excellent range.  Kidney and liver function excellent, all good.  The one very tiny issue was low potassium - doc told me to eat a banana.
> 
> ...


Bill, I have had a-fib since 2008. I had three procedures -- laser ablations -- to fix it and none of them did, but they shut down my left pulmonary veins. Now I have a-fib and only one lung. I am still able to do martial arts. I know some people who have had a-fib procedures with no problem and fixed the a-fib. I'm one of those 3% of failures. Good luck, but you can still workout. I don't think I ever stopped, and I'm on a couple of heart medicines. We keep going.   Just question your doctors relentlessly. Don't accept what they say at face value. Be your own advocate. Good luck.


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## sgtmac_46 (Dec 14, 2021)

Bill Mattocks said:


> Just had my annual physical.  I was looking forward to it because I've lost a lot of weight recently (mostly thanks to Trulicity, which I have been taking for a while now for my diabetes), and my daily blood sugar tests have been looking pretty good.
> 
> All my numbers looked great, and the doctor was thrilled.  Every single indicator that had ever been high or borderline bad was now well within the good to excellent range.  Kidney and liver function excellent, all good.  The one very tiny issue was low potassium - doc told me to eat a banana.
> 
> ...


You say you’ve lost a lot of weight?  And your potassium is a bit low?  And when standing you sometimes have dizziness? What about your magnesium?  

I’ve had similar issues and there’s a complex interplay between weightloss, magnesium, potassium, salt (the basic electrolytes) and the vagus nerve that can trigger Afib.

You should definitely subsidize your electrolytes if you’re losing weight.

More important you should look closely at Trulicity as a possible culprit.









						Exacerbation of atrial fibrillation related to dulaglutide use
					

Dulaglutide is associated with sinus tachycardia, increased PR interval, and 1st degree AV block. These conduction abnormalities can increase the risk of arrhythmia. Dulaglutide should be used with caution in patients with pre‐existing arrhythmia.Dulaglutide ...




					www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov


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## Gyakuto (Dec 14, 2021)

Bill Mattocks said:


> Just had my annual physical.  I was looking forward to it because I've lost a lot of weight recently (mostly thanks to Trulicity, which I have been taking for a while now for my diabetes), and my daily blood sugar tests have been looking pretty good.
> 
> All my numbers looked great, and the doctor was thrilled.  Every single indicator that had ever been high or borderline bad was now well within the good to excellent range.  Kidney and liver function excellent, all good.  The one very tiny issue was low potassium - doc told me to eat a banana.
> 
> ...


It’s very common among older people. They try carotid sinus massage (massaging the neck area…which I’ve never seen work), cardioversion (defibrillating under anaesthetic…sometime works temporarily) and occasionally peacemaking. They tend to anticoagulate due to the risk of mural thrombosis forming in the atria and snapping off causing stroke. Anticoagulation is no big deal these days. Digoxin (digitalis) is sometimes prescribed which slows and strengthens the heart beat. It’s a condition that’s very manageable and should have minimal effects upon you life!


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## Instructor (Dec 14, 2021)

Bill Mattocks said:


> I failed to mention that my youngest sister died last month of a heart attack, at age 54. My father had a heart attack at 55 which ultimately killed him. I'm 61.


Sorry for your loss.  My Grandfather told me my entire childhood that the men in our family are dead by 55 because his father and grandfather died by that age.  He is currently age 90, so have hope.


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## Dirty Dog (Dec 14, 2021)

Gyakuto said:


> It’s very common among older people.


Yes it is.


Gyakuto said:


> They try carotid sinus massage (massaging the neck area…which I’ve never seen work),


That's not a very accurate description, and you must not have seen it done properly or often, because it has a success rate of about 20% on A-Fib. Higher for things like SVT.


Gyakuto said:


> cardioversion (defibrillating under anaesthetic…sometime works temporarily) and occasionally peacemaking.


It would be more accurate to say pacemakers are a super common treatment.


Gyakuto said:


> They tend to anticoagulate due to the risk of mural thrombosis forming in the atria and snapping off causing stroke. Anticoagulation is no big deal these days. Digoxin (digitalis) is sometimes prescribed which slows and strengthens the heart beat. It’s a condition that’s very manageable and should have minimal effects upon you life!


1979 called, and they'd like their medications back. The only people I've seen in the last decade on dig have been on it for half their life and find no reason to change. It's certainly not considered a first or second tier drug for a-fib.


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## Zinobile (Dec 14, 2021)

Bill Mattocks said:


> Just had my annual physical.  I was looking forward to it because I've lost a lot of weight recently (mostly thanks to Trulicity, which I have been taking for a while now for my diabetes), and my daily blood sugar tests have been looking pretty good.
> 
> All my numbers looked great, and the doctor was thrilled.  Every single indicator that had ever been high or borderline bad was now well within the good to excellent range.  Kidney and liver function excellent, all good.  The one very tiny issue was low potassium - doc told me to eat a banana.
> 
> ...


My brother just had ablation done to control his & he's doing fine.  Time to obey the doctor for a while!  Best wishes.  Joe


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## Bill Mattocks (Dec 17, 2021)

Just saw the cardiologist. It's beta blockers and blood thinners for me. I am ordered to stop all contact in karate. No more sparring or any form of kumite. This is bad news.


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## Dirty Dog (Dec 17, 2021)

Bill Mattocks said:


> Just saw the cardiologist. It's beta blockers and blood thinners for me. I am ordered to stop all contact in karate. No more sparring or any form of kumite. This is bad news.


It really is. If I were you, I'd ask for a referral to an electrophysiologist to discuss ablation. It's not always an option, but if it is, and can be performed successfully, you can get off the thinners.


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## Gyakuto (Dec 17, 2021)

Bill Mattocks said:


> Just saw the cardiologist. It's beta blockers and blood thinners for me. I am ordered to stop all contact in karate. No more sparring or any form of kumite. This is bad news.


That’s not the best news, Bill, but it’s far preferable to stroke and consequent disability. Kata and kihon are wonderful avenues in which to excel. Best of luck.


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## Oily Dragon (Dec 17, 2021)

Bill Mattocks said:


> Just saw the cardiologist. It's beta blockers and blood thinners for me. I am ordered to stop all contact in karate. No more sparring or any form of kumite. This is bad news.


There is a lot of kung fu training material designed to lower stress and blood pressure.  A lot of the Nei Gong Ja schools are all about this.

Getting older sucks, but you can make it suck less, and sparring isn't required.  Just the usual time, effort, and focus I'm sure you're already well familiar with.

Glad to share anything I can, with you.


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## Bill Mattocks (Dec 17, 2021)

Thanks for the suggestions, everyone!  I will be investigating options as time goes on.  At the moment, I'll follow the cardiologist's orders and take my *very expensive* medication and avoid hitting and getting hit at the dojo.

As to studying other styles, I'm not too much interested.  I've been doing Isshinryu for over 15 years now, I'm 61 years old, and I'm not wanting to start something new.  Besides, my dojo is my family.  I don't just go there because I like my style of martial arts (although I do).  I go there to be with my family.  

I have given some thought over the years to adding some Tai Chi to my training.  The problem for me is that there is nothing nearby.  I can't drive an hour to train, unfortunately.  I will keep my eyes open though.  You never know what might pop up.


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## Bill Mattocks (Dec 17, 2021)

Dirty Dog said:


> It really is. If I were you, I'd ask for a referral to an electrophysiologist to discuss ablation. It's not always an option, but if it is, and can be performed successfully, you can get off the thinners.


The cardiologist said I was not a candidate for cardioversion because I've been reporting heart palpitations for several years, although they just caught the afib on my ekg recently, so he said it probably would not work.  He did suggest I'd be a candidate for the Watchman device, which would permit me to avoid Eliquis and allow me to do contact sports again.  However, the whole thing sounds a little sketchy to me.  It's invasive heart surgery and it's permanent.  I dunno if I'm ready for that.


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## Dirty Dog (Dec 17, 2021)

Bill Mattocks said:


> The cardiologist said I was not a candidate for cardioversion because I've been reporting heart palpitations for several years, although they just caught the afib on my ekg recently, so he said it probably would not work.  He did suggest I'd be a candidate for the Watchman device, which would permit me to avoid Eliquis and allow me to do contact sports again.  However, the whole thing sounds a little sketchy to me.  It's invasive heart surgery and it's permanent.  I dunno if I'm ready for that.


What sounds sketchy about it? It's minimally invasive, since it's placed via a puncture in the groin. Essentially the same as doing an angiogram, except you stop in the bottom of the left ventricle, instead of continuing on out of the heart into the aortic root.


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## Bill Mattocks (Dec 17, 2021)

Dirty Dog said:


> What sounds sketchy about it? It's minimally invasive, since it's placed via a puncture in the groin. Essentially the same as doing an angiogram, except you stop in the bottom of the left ventricle, instead of continuing on out of the heart into the aortic root.


It's a mechanical device, going into my heart.  That doesn't make me feel happy thoughts.  Also, the cardiologist was pretty happy about pushing it, seemed disappointed when I said I'd try the blood thinners first.  I got the feeling he really wanted to try his new toy out on me.  Just a feeling.


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## Dirty Dog (Dec 17, 2021)

Bill Mattocks said:


> It's a mechanical device, going into my heart.  That doesn't make me feel happy thoughts.  Also, the cardiologist was pretty happy about pushing it, seemed disappointed when I said I'd try the blood thinners first.  I got the feeling he really wanted to try his new toy out on me.  Just a feeling.


Note that I am not trying to talk you into anything.
It's a mechanical device if a balloon is a mechanical device. It's not like there are moving parts or electrical circuits or anything.
I understand why he would push it. It's not really new. I think it's been in common use for 6-8 years. I can dig up the numbers, if you want, but as I recall the effectiveness of the Watchman is slightly higher than drug therapy. But it's a very small difference. The major advantage is the impact on your day to day life. The Watchman (and similar devices) is the hands down winner there.
Again, I am not trying to talk you into anything.


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## Rich Parsons (Dec 17, 2021)

Dirty Dog said:


> It really is. If I were you, I'd ask for a referral to an electrophysiologist to discuss ablation. It's not always an option, but if it is, and can be performed successfully, you can get off the thinners.



HEY DD ,

Ablation as in small amount of current running through a section to usually cause scar tissue on the Nerve Center to reduce pain? 
Sorry - this is the usage I am aware of for the procedure. 

Are you saying that it can be used to this condition as well? 
** Standard Disclaimers - See a doctor get the proper referrals et al


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## Oily Dragon (Dec 17, 2021)

Bill Mattocks said:


> Thanks for the suggestions, everyone!  I will be investigating options as time goes on.  At the moment, I'll follow the cardiologist's orders and take my *very expensive* medication and avoid hitting and getting hit at the dojo.
> 
> As to studying other styles, I'm not too much interested.  I've been doing Isshinryu for over 15 years now, I'm 61 years old, and I'm not wanting to start something new.  Besides, my dojo is my family.  I don't just go there because I like my style of martial arts (although I do).  I go there to be with my family.
> 
> I have given some thought over the years to adding some Tai Chi to my training.  The problem for me is that there is nothing nearby.  I can't drive an hour to train, unfortunately.  I will keep my eyes open though.  You never know what might pop up.


Definitely.

I know a bunch of people who started taking up Tai Chi during the pandemic, and still do Zoom classes etc.  Remote Tai Chi isn't perfect, but it beats nothing, and has proven medical benefits for blood pressure, unlike a lot of other martial arts, which are (in my humble opinion) terrible for it.









						"6 Tai Chi Health Benefits on Blood Pressure, Stress and More"
					

The health benefits of tai chi go beyond a general sense of calm. Here are six reasons to incorporate tai chi into your exercise routine.




					www.abbott.com


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## _Simon_ (Dec 18, 2021)

Bill Mattocks said:


> Just saw the cardiologist. It's beta blockers and blood thinners for me. I am ordered to stop all contact in karate. No more sparring or any form of kumite. This is bad news.


I'm so sorry to hear Bill... that must be incredibly difficult news... I know I would find it very hard.

I'm hoping your karate can continue to evolve into deeper places, and more richness in different exploration. Training is still there, just in a different way. Thinking of you brother.


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## Dirty Dog (Dec 18, 2021)

Rich Parsons said:


> HEY DD ,
> 
> Ablation as in small amount of current running through a section to usually cause scar tissue on the Nerve Center to reduce pain?
> Sorry - this is the usage I am aware of for the procedure.
> ...


Absolutely. Ablation just means removal or destruction of a body part or tissue or its function. In these cases, we are talking about knocking out the function. Specifically, the ability of a given bit of tissue to conduct.
The problem lies in abnormal conduction pathways. So it's off to the electrophysiology lab to have those pathways mapped. A catheter is placed and guided into the heart (just like in the Watchman procedure). The ablation itself is done with either cryo (liquid nitrogen or argon gas), heat (radiofrequency) or laser. The procedure causes teeny tiny scars which block the abnormal conduction pathways.


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## Bill Mattocks (Dec 18, 2021)

Dirty Dog said:


> Absolutely. Ablation just means removal or destruction of a body part or tissue or its function. In these cases, we are talking about knocking out the function. Specifically, the ability of a given bit of tissue to conduct.
> The problem lies in abnormal conduction pathways. So it's off to the electrophysiology lab to have those pathways mapped. A catheter is placed and guided into the heart (just like in the Watchman procedure). The ablation itself is done with either cryo (liquid nitrogen or argon gas), heat (radiofrequency) or laser. The procedure causes teeny tiny scars which block the abnormal conduction pathways.


I see the cardiologist again in a month. I'll be sure to ask. This is day 1 of eliquis and I'm not feeling too good.


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## isshinryuronin (Dec 18, 2021)

Oily Dragon said:


> The 13th precept of Musashi's Dokkodo comes to mind.
> 
> "13. Do not pursue the taste of good food. "
> 
> Harsh, master.  But true.


"Do not pursue the taste of good food'???  Musashi was obviously a misguided quack who lived in a cave.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Dec 18, 2021)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> Will you consider walking instead?





Bill Mattocks said:


> You don't know my situation. Thank you for your suggestions.


Can you find any exercise that's easier than "walking"? I thought walking is the easiest exercise on earth.


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## Oily Dragon (Dec 19, 2021)

isshinryuronin said:


> "Do not pursue the taste of good food'???  Musashi was obviously a misguided quack who lived in a cave.


Yes, unless you realize the key word is "pursue".

Why do we pursue things?


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## Oily Dragon (Dec 19, 2021)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> Can you find any exercise that's easier than "walking"? I thought walking is the easiest exercise on earth.


Breathing is easier exercise (for most), but if you can't do that right, walking sucks.

Do you nose breath, or mouth breath?  Both?


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## Bill Mattocks (Dec 19, 2021)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> Can you find any exercise that's easier than "walking"? I thought walking is the easiest exercise on earth.


Walking is only easy if you are not in pain. I have diabetic neuropathy in my feet. This causes me extreme pain if I walk more than a certain distance, and that distance changes daily depending on how the neuropathy expresses itself on any given day. In addition to actual pain, neuropathy slowly causes my brain to lose communication with my feet, which means foot slapping, toe dragging, staggering, and sometimes tripping. I have trouble getting through my day in my large office building if I have to go to more than one meeting. There's no cure for it, nerve damage is permanent. Exercise doesn't fix it. Do you understand now, doctor?


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## dvcochran (Dec 19, 2021)

Bill Mattocks said:


> Walking is only easy if you are not in pain. I have diabetic neuropathy in my feet. This causes me extreme pain if I walk more than a certain distance, and that distance changes daily depending on how the neuropathy expresses itself on any given day. In addition to actual pain, neuropathy slowly causes my brain to lose communication with my feet, which means foot slapping, toe dragging, staggering, and sometimes tripping. I have trouble getting through my day in my large office building if I have to go to more than one meeting. There's no cure for it, nerve damage is permanent. Exercise doesn't fix it. Do you understand now, doctor?


Gabapentin?


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## Oily Dragon (Dec 19, 2021)

Bill Mattocks said:


> Walking is only easy if you are not in pain. I have diabetic neuropathy in my feet. This causes me extreme pain if I walk more than a certain distance, and that distance changes daily depending on how the neuropathy expresses itself on any given day. In addition to actual pain, neuropathy slowly causes my brain to lose communication with my feet, which means foot slapping, toe dragging, staggering, and sometimes tripping. I have trouble getting through my day in my large office building if I have to go to more than one meeting. There's no cure for it, nerve damage is permanent. Exercise doesn't fix it. Do you understand now, doctor?


When I get a chance I'm going to post some stuff on seated exercises that might help you, like the seated brocades.  Simple to learn, and valuable to know.  Basically, stretching and breathwork stuff that does not require standing at all.  Know one person with MD who does these and they work.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Dec 19, 2021)

Oily Dragon said:


> Do you nose breath, or mouth breath?  Both?


Both. I like to inhale through nose and exhale through both nose and mouth.


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## Bill Mattocks (Jan 18, 2022)

I'm going into the hospital for cardioversion treatment next week. Tried to do kata last night, failed. Got through four reps of Chinto and my legs gave up.


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## Xue Sheng (Jan 18, 2022)

Bill Mattocks said:


> I'm going into the hospital for cardioversion treatment next week. Tried to do kata last night, failed. Got through four reps of Chinto and my legs gave up.



Wishing you all the best and I hope it gets you back to normal activity


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## Instructor (Jan 18, 2022)

Bill Mattocks said:


> I'm going into the hospital for cardioversion treatment next week. Tried to do kata last night, failed. Got through four reps of Chinto and my legs gave up.


Praying for you brother.


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## Buka (Jan 18, 2022)

Instructor said:


> Praying for you brother.


Me too, Bill.


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## granfire (Jan 18, 2022)

Bill Mattocks said:


> I'm going into the hospital for cardioversion treatment next week. Tried to do kata last night, failed. Got through four reps of Chinto and my legs gave up.


hang in there


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## Oily Dragon (Jan 18, 2022)

Bill Mattocks said:


> I'm going into the hospital for cardioversion treatment next week. Tried to do kata last night, failed. Got through four reps of Chinto and my legs gave up.


Drink lots of water, and zero alcohol.

It's not bad advice, it's sad advice.


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## Dirty Dog (Jan 19, 2022)

Good luck with everything Bill.


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## _Simon_ (Jan 19, 2022)

Bill Mattocks said:


> I'm going into the hospital for cardioversion treatment next week. Tried to do kata last night, failed. Got through four reps of Chinto and my legs gave up.


Thinking of you mate.. hope it all goes well.


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## Steve (Jan 19, 2022)

Sounds like you are getting top notch care.  Glad to hear it.  Hope what can heal heals, and that the rest is managed as best as possible.


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## Bill Mattocks (Jan 25, 2022)

I'm home now. Got a nice burn mark on my chest. The cardioversion did not work. We discussed some medication to control my heart rhythm but I rejected it. I can barely function with the metoprolol and blood thinners I'm taking now. I can't do it. We'll talk about ablation.


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## JowGaWolf (Jan 25, 2022)

Bill Mattocks said:


> There's no cure for it, nerve damage is permanent. Exercise doesn't fix it. Do you understand now, doctor?


My mom has this.  She says acupuncture helps where medicine doesn't.  But you actually have to find someone that understands it and not someone who took a crash course in it.  

Not sure if you are interested in stuff like that, but if so I can ask her more detail about it and how she found the right person to do the acupuncture.



Kung Fu Wang said:


> Both. I like to inhale through nose and exhale through both nose and mouth.


I used to run long distance like that.


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## JowGaWolf (Jan 25, 2022)

Bill Mattocks said:


> I'm home now. Got a nice burn mark on my chest. The cardioversion did not work. We discussed some medication to control my heart rhythm but I rejected it. I can barely function with the metoprolol and blood thinners I'm taking now. I can't do it. We'll talk about ablation.


Wow.  I'll keep you in my prayers.  

I'll keep this for back up in case you need it.  









Thanks for keeping us posted


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## Oily Dragon (Jan 26, 2022)

For what it's worth, you might want to check out Gunnar Borg's RPE system.  It was designed for people in rehab for conditions like yours.  With the metaprolol artificially dampening your heart, you can still exercise within doctors limits, but knowing the CR-10 scale is helpful for safely getting to know the "new you".

Good luck.  Breathe in, out.





__





						Borg Rating Of Perceived Exertion
					

Original Editor  Uchechukwu Chukwuemeka




					www.physio-pedia.com


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## Steve (Jan 26, 2022)

JowGaWolf said:


> Wow.  I'll keep you in my prayers.
> 
> I'll keep this for back up in case you need it.
> 
> ...


I need to dig out my Six Million Dollar Bionic Axtion Club membership certificate.  It’s around here somewhere.


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## Bill Mattocks (Jan 26, 2022)

JowGaWolf said:


> My mom has this.  She says acupuncture helps where medicine doesn't.  But you actually have to find someone that understands it and not someone who took a crash course in it.
> 
> Not sure if you are interested in stuff like that, but if so I can ask her more detail about it and how she found the right person to do the acupuncture.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the kind offer.  I have a bit too much on my plate right now, but I do appreciate it.


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## Bill Mattocks (Feb 9, 2022)

Had my follow up meeting with an electrophysiologist. Not liking the options. It's not looking good for the home team. 

1) ablation.  50% chance of remission for five years. 4% chance of negative outcome, meaning worse off than before, or death.

2) chemical cardioversion. Extremely strong drugs to force my heart into normal rhythm. End of martial arts training, I'll be a zombie. If this works, 2nd round of electro cardioversion, which failed the first time.

3) do nothing. Main risk is stroke, which is managed by blood thinners and heart rate slowing drugs. No sparring due to blood thinners, but honestly these drugs have me all kinds of messed up. No motivation, depressed. Lost all interest in hobbies.

So...yay. I'm seeking a second opinion, but I'm not thrilled about what I've learned so far.


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## seasoned (Feb 9, 2022)

Bill Mattocks said:


> Had my follow up meeting with an electrophysiologist. Not liking the options. It's not looking good for the home team.
> 
> 1) ablation.  50% chance of remission for five years. 4% chance of negative outcome, meaning worse off than before, or death.
> 
> ...


So sorry, Bill. Second opinion is a good move. Sometimes a second set of eyes can give a different perspective. keeping you in my thoughts and prayers.


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## JowGaWolf (Feb 9, 2022)

Bill Mattocks said:


> Had my follow up meeting with an electrophysiologist. Not liking the options. It's not looking good for the home team.
> 
> 1) ablation.  50% chance of remission for five years. 4% chance of negative outcome, meaning worse off than before, or death.
> 
> ...


tai chi or slow karate?  Are those options?


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## Oily Dragon (Feb 10, 2022)

Bill Mattocks said:


> Had my follow up meeting with an electrophysiologist. Not liking the options. It's not looking good for the home team.
> 
> 1) ablation.  50% chance of remission for five years. 4% chance of negative outcome, meaning worse off than before, or death.
> 
> ...


With you all the way man.  Looks like we've all got some inspirational pocket lint digging to do.  Whenever I'm laid up (and that happens all the time, I train too hard sometimes), it's a great time to focus on mentally bonding with others who care.  Even when you can't train, making fun of martial arts makes happy chemicals in your brain flow.  It's my mantra.

I'm no Ted Lasso, but I've been known to mend a wounded mojo on occasion.  Hope this works, I did for me once.


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## Xue Sheng (Feb 10, 2022)

Oily Dragon said:


> With you all the way man.  Looks like we've all got some inspirational pocket lint digging to do.  Whenever I'm laid up (and that happens all the time, I train too hard sometimes), it's a great time to focus on mentally bonding with others who care.  Even when you can't train, making fun of martial arts makes happy chemicals in your brain flow.  It's my mantra.
> 
> I'm no Ted Lasso, but I've been known to mend a wounded mojo on occasion.  Hope this works, I did for me once.


 Have to remember that hold my arm thing


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## Bill Mattocks (Feb 10, 2022)

JowGaWolf said:


> tai chi or slow karate?  Are those options?


I've been training here for 15 years. This is my home.


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## Oily Dragon (Feb 10, 2022)

Xue Sheng said:


> Have to remember that hold my arm thing


It's great fun at kung fu parties, but do not use this with people who don't train head strikes.  They won't think it's funny, and might call the police.


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## Xue Sheng (Feb 11, 2022)

Oily Dragon said:


> It's great fun at kung fu parties, but do not use this with people who don't train head strikes.  They won't think it's funny, and might call the police.



You're no fun at all


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## Oily Dragon (Feb 11, 2022)

Xue Sheng said:


> You're no fun at all


Not one bit.


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## seasoned (Feb 12, 2022)

Bill Mattocks said:


> I've been training here for 15 years. This is my home.


Then this is where you belong. Being around people you know will give you the best support.
I was diagnosed years ago with peripheral neuropathy,  no know cause. Balance is affected but gets worse if I do nothing. For this reason I still do everything I did before only slower and more controlled to keep muscles active and strong. In my case I can't reverse it but I have  slowed it down. I know what you are going through because I mirror much of what you mentioned in one of your previous posts.


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