# Individualistic  Memory Processes



## KenpoTess (Sep 30, 2003)

I'm curious to know how many Kenpoists are able to memorize quickly the defenses for tecs, your sayings (if relevant) and when under pressure can speedily call to memory what the answers are?  Mentally and physically.

I'm having a real hard time since my car accident a few years ago (plummeting through a car windshield head first) with memory.  

When under a calm environment, I have no problem. I am able to pull up the information and answer the question, or perform the tec.  But when in a stressful (grading or other) situation my mind tends to blank.. Now I know this can't be good for me and am looking for how to alleviate this problem.  Because It's not Knowing what to do.. it's  the Doing...   
I'm not talking about just Testings.. I am concerned because will I blank out if I'm in a fight or flight situation ever.  It's kinda a scary thought to me.. 

I can fly through my tecs and everything else just fine any other time.. put me in the spot light and I'm a jelly fish.. This does not bode well.. 
Any advice would be most welcome 
Thanks 

Tess


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## satans.barber (Sep 30, 2003)

OT: Did you have a seatbelt on?

Ian.


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## MisterMike (Sep 30, 2003)

Tess,

I have always been quick to pick up techniques, to the point it was almost uncanny. But this varies with the individual, and within the same individual as age sets in. Now I can see differences in learning new material in myself as well.

Recalling information under pressure I think affects us all in some fashion. If it is to the point where you completely draw a blank, I'm sure it has happened to us all at one time, you just don't want it to happen ALL the time.

I'd say keep burning in the motion. That's what is going to come out hopefully without thinking when the need arrives.

Just scratchin' the surface here...


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## KenpoTess (Sep 30, 2003)

> _Originally posted by satans.barber _
> *OT: Did you have a seatbelt on?
> 
> Ian. *



I was riding home with a co-worker/neighbor and I had just taken off my seatbelt to reach around for something in the back seat.. when a car turned from the right lane.. directly in front of us.. we T boned him.. I was in a late model camaro and saw the whole front end crumpling toward me  in slow motion as I was jettisoned forward.. then backward.. and to the windshield.. 
the driver's airbag imploded .. defective but he was saved from that.. mine didn't activate but  I am still here   with a titanium cage holding my lumbar spine together.. 

Wear Seatbelts ~!!!


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## KenpoTess (Sep 30, 2003)

> _Originally posted by MisterMike _
> *Tess,
> 
> I have always been quick to pick up techniques, to the point it was almost uncanny. But this varies with the individual, and within the same individual as age sets in. Now I can see differences in learning new material in myself as well.
> ...



Hi Mike 

Yeah we have students, all ages.. that show the same natural ability to recount information and snap your fingers and they dance through the tecs.   I tend to have better days and worse.. depending on my mindset I think.  
I know when I have alot of other things going on in my life aside from MA's It's like being under the influence ... I lose concentration and  fizzle right out .. or if I'm just off that day .. same thing..

It's like when I went to the IKC.. I was freaking for 4 mos before.. I kept blanking out on Long 3.. when I was practicing it myself and with my peers.. no problem.. I knew it cold.. then put me before an audience.. oh man.. *sputters and gets all discombobulated *G*  But I went to the IKC.. and  2 of  my cohorts who Never Ever have any kinda problems ... they blanked out during their performance.. I got up there and did my best and finished in front of the judges.. proving to myself that I could do it.. 
So that in essence shows me I can do something when under extreme pressure.. physically..   Now I'm dealing with the Mental aspect of basically the same thing.. 

Thanks for your response 

Tess


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## Klondike93 (Sep 30, 2003)

Oh my Tess   So the Queen of Pain title is not for the fact you can issue it but handle it as well  :asian: 


Back to topic:

I can usually pick up the techniques real quick and after one class be able to perform them decently. However, when required to do them freeform I would lock up on what to do for what ever attack was coming. I think it's a programing thing, your programing your body to respond to certain situations and it just doesn't work all the time.


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## MisterMike (Sep 30, 2003)

Tess,

So you went to the IKC? That's great. Did you place?

Long 3 is notorious for getting people stuck. I'ts one of those start/stop forms so if you're not focused, it can be easy to forget what's next.

I sometimes use a golf analogy. Some days are just better than others.


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## KenpoTess (Sep 30, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Klondike93 _
> *Oh my Tess   So the Queen of Pain title is not for the fact you can issue it but handle it as well  :asian:
> 
> 
> ...



Hey Chuck 

Yeah. re: the title *G*  after my accident and back surgery my right foot to my knee was paralyzed.. docs told me  I wouldn't walk again etc.. Bah I said.. tossed my leg brace and cane and got back to Kenpo.. a year ago total feeling came back to my leg and here I am ~!!

Back to topic.. 
I used to take multiple tries to learn a tec.. Over and over seeing it done. and I would get soo dyslexic when attempting to do it.. but then that got better through the years and now only need to see it demonstrated a couple times *G*


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## KenpoTess (Sep 30, 2003)

> _Originally posted by MisterMike _
> *Tess,
> 
> So you went to the IKC? That's great. Did you place?
> ...



Mike, yeah we took a contingent up to Boston and that's a touchy subject *G*  we're not wearing the right patch to place *W*  long story~!!  it's posted back in a thread about the IKC in this forum.. if you get really bored~!!

Long 3  is fun til I get to Wings of Silk.. that tec just  took my entire rhythm off~!!! 
But I learned it all and made it through~!!  
Saw lots of different versions of Long 3 at the IKC ..

Your right. .some days are better than others~!!


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## kenpo12 (Sep 30, 2003)

Hi Tess,

   I actually retain forms well because I'm so-so at them, meaning it takes me forever to memorize a form so once I have it memorized it's in there because it takes me so long to get it down.  
  As for techniques though, have you tried spontaneity drills?  You start out simple with an opponent who will throw a right punch, but it can be straight, roundhouse, uppercut, or overhead.  The opponent throws the attack of his/her choice so you don't know what it's going to be.  You might eat it a couple times but once you stop thinking about what to do and start reacting it will be no problem.  Then you begin to make the drill more difficult, i.e. Have the opponent throw a right punch or kick but you don't know what they will choose.  Also try starting with your eyes closed and have someone grab you with whatever grab they'd like.  As soon as you feel the grab open your eyes and move into an appropriate technique.
  You can do a million combos of the above mentioned drills.   For me those kind of drills help me to internalize the art as opposed to constantly "going through the motions".

Hope that helps,

Matt


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## ArnoldLee (Sep 30, 2003)

I think this is a very important point brought up.  How you can memorize and not be able to call on your vast technique store when the rubber has to meet the road.

The problem is that the mind puts out information the same way it is stored (as Benny Urquidez said "you fight how you train").  If you memorize something the only way you can reproduce it is in the exact same context.  If the attack is a little bit off you go into paralysis as your mind shuffles through its card file of info until it finds something that "kinda fits".  I can bet we've all had that feeling either at tests or in freestyle.  Can you imagine trying to string together mental chatter like "oh I'll start off with flashing mace, flow into snapping twig with the left hand but use the footwork in reversing circles then finish off with that neat little crossover in parting wings extension"?!?

If you do nothing but extemporaneously choose and not memorize anything then I believe you are much better off.  With nothing but strong basics if you hit somebody and respond to how they react then what you do to them may look like 5 swords to a bystander but all you were doing was choosing and hitting, hitting hitting (with proper principles of course).  The crucial difference in not how you physically do the movement but how your mind was processing the information.   To build on what others have replied, yes we have to internalize the art but I believe the difference is in how we do that.


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## ProfessorKenpo (Sep 30, 2003)

> _Originally posted by kenpo12 _
> *Hi Tess,
> 
> I actually retain forms well because I'm so-so at them, meaning it takes me forever to memorize a form so once I have it memorized it's in there because it takes me so long to get it down.
> ...



That they have Matt.    I've noticed an extreme improvement of your skills in the  time you've been exposed to drills such as those and I know they will only get better with time.


Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde


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## KenpoTess (Sep 30, 2003)

> _Originally posted by kenpo12 _
> *Hi Tess,
> 
> I actually retain forms well because I'm so-so at them, meaning it takes me forever to memorize a form so once I have it memorized it's in there because it takes me so long to get it down.
> ...



Hi Matt 

We have done some spontainity drills but I think that it would be a good time to do some more~!  We've done the multi attacker scenario  and that works out well.. I think we get stuck in the 'curriculum' phase and tend to stagnate at times.. no fault to anyone other than  we're doing things by Rote..
Now last night we were practicing with Alternating maces.. elongating the circles and rounding off the corners.. We were each paired up with a partner and working the tec at our rank level.. all was fine til I tried it on Seig.. 

He was holding his arms out on my upper chest locked out.. and  when I found out I was actually not able to block and strike his arms down.. I had to rethink what the problem was..  Everyone else tried the tec on him.. and  ' Sam Ting'  the tec  was not working.. why??? We were not torquing our hips.. we were all trying to overpower him and that was not going to happen.. he's built like a  Brick house.. so when we actually rotated our hips and settled into our stance.. VOILA'   Alternating maces worked ~!!   
This is an example that when we perform our tecs on our partner who most likely is our own gender.. and  not really putting alot of anything into the attack.. or using power.. etc.. that maybe we need more reality.. 

Guess I got kinda off topic here *G* oh well it's all good stuff 
Thanks for your reply and suggestions  Matt~!

Tess


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## KenpoTess (Sep 30, 2003)

> _Originally posted by ArnoldLee _
> *I think this is a very important point brought up.  How you can memorize and not be able to call on your vast technique store when the rubber has to meet the road.
> 
> The problem is that the mind puts out information the same way it is stored (as Benny Urquidez said "you fight how you train").  If you memorize something the only way you can reproduce it is in the exact same context.  If the attack is a little bit off you go into paralysis as your mind shuffles through its card file of info until it finds something that "kinda fits".  I can bet we've all had that feeling either at tests or in freestyle.  Can you imagine trying to string together mental chatter like "oh I'll start off with flashing mace, flow into snapping twig with the left hand but use the footwork in reversing circles then finish off with that neat little crossover in parting wings extension"?!?
> ...



Hi  Arnold 

I know what you're saying and I can relate.. 
I was doing a tec the other night and my partner did something out of character and totally off the wall .. I started laughing and stopped saying.. Hey what's that about.. I can't do the tec on  that attack.. . so when I'm being attacked in real life.. I'm going to stop and tell the attacker.. uhh.. don't do that.. I can't remember the defense .. I don't think so heheee.. 

We're taught.. Learn the basics.. then build on them..

just like the Orange belt saying # 6 .. 
Condition and guts take over where knowledge and skill end.

Thanks for your input~!

Tess


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## WhiteTiger (Oct 1, 2003)

> _Originally posted by KenpoTess _
> *When under a calm environment, I have no problem. I am able to pull up the information and answer the question, or perform the tec.  But when in a stressful (grading or other) situation my mind tends to blankTess *



Tess,

Seems like your difficulty is more about nervousness than memory problems.  You obviously know the techniques and can preform them when you think noone is watching/judging.  The only way I know to overcome stage fright is to get on stage as often as possible.  A couple of advantage you will have in a true fight situation is noone will be judging you on how well you perform the technique, and who cares if you do it right as long as whatever you do is effective.  In that situation don't think just move, and fast.


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## KenpoTess (Oct 1, 2003)

> _Originally posted by WhiteTiger _
> *Tess,
> 
> Seems like your difficulty is more about nervousness than memory problems.  You obviously know the techniques and can preform them when you think noone is watching/judging.  The only way I know to overcome stage fright is to get on stage as often as possible.  A couple of advantage you will have in a true fight situation is noone will be judging you on how well you perform the technique, and who cares if you do it right as long as whatever you do is effective.  In that situation don't think just move, and fast. *



Hi WhiteTiger 

I know alot of my issue has to do with nerves,  but even when just  lined up, not in testing or grading situations,  When  drilling.. and things are called out very fast.. my brain can't seem to keep up with the speed of the drilling (if that makes any sense)  
Maybe I'm just getting old 

Tess


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## qizmoduis (Oct 1, 2003)

> _Originally posted by KenpoTess _
> *Hi WhiteTiger
> 
> I know alot of my issue has to do with nerves,  but even when just  lined up, not in testing or grading situations,  When  drilling.. and things are called out very fast.. my brain can't seem to keep up with the speed of the drilling (if that makes any sense)
> ...



I have the same problem.  I get easily flustered in spontaneous response drills.  Unfortunately, the only solution I could think of is to just keep doing it.  I haven't gotten to the point yet where it's worked on me.  Better, yes, but I still blank out very easily.


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## KenpoTess (Oct 1, 2003)

> _Originally posted by qizmoduis _
> *I have the same problem.  I get easily flustered in spontaneous response drills.  Unfortunately, the only solution I could think of is to just keep doing it.  I haven't gotten to the point yet where it's worked on me.  Better, yes, but I still blank out very easily. *



I'm soo glad I'm not alone *G*


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## Michael Billings (Oct 1, 2003)

I pick up techniques fairly quickly, but in teaching I have found that some students can and others it is very mechanical, and they have to almost, not almost, they do have to talk themselves through the techniques, step by step.  It is very frustrating for them in the long run.  They also have difficulty with spontinaity drills and flow drill.

I have kept some and lost some.  At your level, you are a "Keeper".  

I have one student who has to relearn the charts each time he tests.  He is fine on the current chart, but literally "loses" or cannot "access" the information.  It is stored in some fashon or the other, but difficult to extract.

Test anxiety is frequently an issue, and some drills almost "feel" like a test, eliciting the same adrenal response and blockages.  

Generally, the people that have the hardest time retaining also have a very poor "kinesthetic" sense.  They cannot "feel" what is right and what is wrong.  This always makes it more difficult.

The remedy, practice of course!!!  But a purple belt who works 12 - 14 hour days, and is doing this for a hobby or sport, not as a vocation or love for the Art, will not put in the hours needed ... he just does not have them!  Tough justice for him.  He struggles, works and progresses.  Fortunatly he is determined and semi-patient, and continues to grow, but by baby steps rather than leaps and bounds.

-MB


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## KenpoTess (Oct 1, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Michael Billings _
> *I pick up techniques fairly quickly, but in teaching I have found that some students can and others it is very mechanical, and they have to almost, not almost, they do have to talk themselves through the techniques, step by step.  It is very frustrating for them in the long run.  They also have difficulty with spontinaity drills and flow drill.
> 
> I have kept some and lost some.  At your level, you are a "Keeper".
> ...



Thanks Michael~!! 

That's very well said and I agree.. My mind stores things all day and when I need them.. it's like uhhh where did I put it. .I know it.. but when called upon.. bah.. it's missing~!!
other days I'm fine.. can recall immediately.. depending on what stressors the day has wrought. 
Today is rather a 'cloudy day for me' and I find my concentration level is vague.. of course the headache I'm having isn't helping!~!
I tend to get dyslexic too which I never had any problem with before the accident.. I'll be doing a form and Thinking it's my left foot I'm stepping back with and next thing I know.. I'm doing opposite sides~!!
that and tecs too.. 
drives me crazy~!!     Totally bizarre and it's something I am trying to remedy but it's not working *G*

Again thanks for your input~!!

Tess


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## Michael Billings (Oct 1, 2003)

... oh, I mean "wreck that you had".  I gotta leave it on a light note.  Don't feel like the Lone Ranger on the memory issue.  I can be that way and I don't get to blame it on "head trauma", just a "Senior Moment."


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## Ceicei (Oct 1, 2003)

For me, picking up techniques is easy.  I just watch the instructor demonstrate, then I can imitate what I see--including power, stances, targets, point of origin, etc.

Being deaf, I have to rely on visual means.  

When teaching forms/katas, the instructors typically call out the steps while demonstrating--this doesn't work for me as I cannot hear them.  If I need to do the whole thing, I have to READ first how it is written (ie. step by step technical), then I can do it.   However, if I don't have the paper for the forms/katas, then the best way is to have them be broken up in short segments and demonstrated to me. I can practice and remember it better.

- Ceicei


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## Kenpomachine (Oct 2, 2003)

> _Originally posted by KenpoTess _
> *I tend to get dyslexic too which I never had any problem with before the accident.. I'll be doing a form and Thinking it's my left foot I'm stepping back with and next thing I know.. I'm doing opposite sides~!!*



I have a very similar problem, dislalic (don't ask me the difference though). What I do usually is learn the movements without adding them tags. I just go, after this (put move and step here, but in your imagination) I have to do this other (again, visualize the next step).

That is, I try to visualize instead of abstract thinking. And I don't give directions anymore by saying turn right, but by signaling due to this same problem. We've gotten lost because of the driver just hearing the indication and not seeing the arm :rofl: :rofl:


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## KenpoTess (Oct 2, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Michael Billings _
> *... oh, I mean "wreck that you had".  I gotta leave it on a light note.  Don't feel like the Lone Ranger on the memory issue.  I can be that way and I don't get to blame it on "head trauma", just a "Senior Moment."
> 
> *



hahaa I think you were right the first time Michael 

And I'm not gonna give into Senior moments ~!!  :rofl:


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## qizmoduis (Oct 2, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Michael Billings _
> *... oh, I mean "wreck that you had".  I gotta leave it on a light note.  Don't feel like the Lone Ranger on the memory issue.  I can be that way and I don't get to blame it on "head trauma", just a "Senior Moment."
> 
> *



Hey.  I don't even get the "senior moment" excuse.


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## don bohrer (Oct 3, 2003)

Tess,

I just kill all the butterflies :EG:

I imagine all the butterflies flittering around inside me, and then I press them all to the floor nice and flat. I hold them there like they're stuck under a sheet of glass. After a few seconds I let up, and If any are still flittering I do it again till they stop.  

When I have to perform I never think about actually being up in front. I watch and enjoy others. When it's my turn I do the butterfly trick. 

don


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## KenpoTess (Oct 3, 2003)

*feeling bad for the butterflies* *G* How's bout skeeters.. I don't like them~!! 

I don't know bout that visualization process Don.. I have such a vivid imagination that I would be so involved in the insect massacre that I would forget everything I was supposed to be doing 

Interesting formula you have there I must say ~! heheee


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## don bohrer (Oct 3, 2003)

Tess,

It gets rid of my nerveousness during tournys. I would feel bad for the little guys, but they dont leave when I ask them to!

don


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## KenpoTess (Oct 3, 2003)

> _Originally posted by don bohrer _
> *Tess,
> 
> It gets rid of my nerveousness during tournys. I would feel bad for the little guys, but they dont leave when I ask them to!
> ...



Don *G* if only they would obey ~!!  Glad it works for you~!

I think after the IKC I'm cured of performance anxiety.. before the tourny.. I would get all flustered just getting up in front of Mr. C . but Last night. Piece of cake *G* Yay for me~!!


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## Shodan (Oct 3, 2003)

Well- I sometimes have memory issues as well!!  I always joke that maybe part of my brain came out when I had my son cuz my memory seems to be worse since then............but maybe it is that I am getting older too........or that I've hit 30 now and so........no more 20's!!

  It doesn't help that I have had to re-learn things a few times due to instructors leaving, me moving, etc.  I have really found out what things are ingrained now by what I retain while away though.  The material thru about blue or green always remains pretty well.........it is the later stuff that goes..........which is weird cuz I learned that more recently.......but then again, I have been doing the other stuff a lot longer!!

  Anyway, I am in the process of re-learning some things again right now..........and trying to be humble in class as I can't keep up with those at my same rank right now during group katas.

  I think it's true that by doing the things over and over, they become more a part of you in the long term and stay with you even if you haven't practiced them for a long time.

  Just my two cents.........hope some of it made sense.

  :asian:  :karate:


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