# Tan Tui (history)



## mantis (May 9, 2006)

I ran into the following article while i was looking for Tan Tui's.  I was interested in finding something that helps me remember them.  I thought some of you guys may wonder about tan tui's (spring legs routines)


Maybe there's not much to comment about in this article.  but i do not mind if any of you trigger some discussion on Tan Tui's.


 "China is a dish spiced by many cultures. There are over 50 minorities among the Chinese besides the Han people themselves. A significant number, over five million of these, are moslems  known in Chinese as the Hui people. In the tenth century large numbers of Persians and Arabs extended the Moslem trade routes deep into China. Many settled and widely dispersed through the country; some living among the general population, some sticking close to concentrated communities of believers. 
 Known for toughness, courage and high spirit the Moslem population of China has not been passive in its growth. Often exploited and suppressed they maintained a stubborn reliance on their beliefs and fighting skills. But reprisals often came. In the Ching dynasty, for instance, three Hui people walking together with weapons could be punished. If caught committing a crime they might even had their faces branded Hui Zei (Moslem Rebel). Such was the discriminatory treatment of Moslems throughout the empire. On the other hand, in the 13th century Moslem generals rallied under a new banner and helped establish the Ming dynasty  a high point of Chinese history. Unceasingly, Moslem martial artists adopted and perfected the indigenous arts of China. They developed a number of fists that are still practiced with honor today. But at the base was one particular exercise known as  

See full article here: http://www.mubai.cc/articles/art26.htm


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## chessman71 (May 11, 2006)

That's Ted Mancuso's article and yeah, it's good stuff. The tantui is great training for anyone. I think everyone should learn it. It's a great exercise and fighting system by itself. It's easy to practice -- you just go back on forth. There's even a matched set where two people use the roads to fight each other. I saw the book on it recently.

Mantis, do you do the 14 road version of mantis tan tui?

Dave C.


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## mantis (May 11, 2006)

chessman71 said:
			
		

> That's Ted Mancuso's article and yeah, it's good stuff. The tantui is great training for anyone. I think everyone should learn it. It's a great exercise and fighting system by itself. It's easy to practice -- you just go back on forth. There's even a matched set where two people use the roads to fight each other. I saw the book on it recently.
> 
> Mantis, do you do the 14 road version of mantis tan tui?
> 
> Dave C.


we do chin woo's 12 tan tui's then we do the 7 star mantis 14 forms developed by Lo Kwan Yu.
I do not know if 7starmantis does the same. Our lineage is a hybrid of 7starmantis' (adam's) lineage and lee kam wing lineage.  I am actually curious to know if the Raymond Fogg branch does what we do or not.


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## 7starmantis (May 11, 2006)

We do the 14 Roads (Sup Sae Lo) but we do not do the Chin Woo Tan Tui set. A couple of us have the set, but its not required or practiced in class. We do the 14 roads as a set, but we spend more time breaking them down into application drills than anyting else.

7sm


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## mantis (May 11, 2006)

7starmantis said:
			
		

> We do the 14 Roads (Sup Sae Lo) but we do not do the Chin Woo Tan Tui set. A couple of us have the set, but its not required or practiced in class. We do the 14 roads as a set, but we spend more time breaking them down into application drills than anyting else.
> 
> 7sm


I see. 
I wonder if there are other differences. I hear the texas part of the family is hardcore.


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## eyebeams (May 12, 2006)

We do Chinwoo, but then again, we practice the signature Chinwoo style, Mizong, so it sort of fits!


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## 7starmantis (May 12, 2006)

mantis said:
			
		

> I see.
> I wonder if there are other differences. I hear the texas part of the family is hardcore.



There are other differences in forms and such but for the most part we are very similar. We try to train as hard as we can, we do alot of fighting so that might help with that reputation.

7sm


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## mantis (May 12, 2006)

7starmantis said:
			
		

> There are other differences in forms and such but for the most part we are very similar. We try to train as hard as we can, we do alot of fighting so that might help with that reputation.
> 
> 7sm


i've someone from my school who visited TX schools. she's a brown belt, she said her legs started hurting and shaking during the first 5 min's! 
even on your website, you have 1 min horse stance, 1 mile run for beginners and so on!
it's a bummer when our instructors take it easy on us sometimes.  
when you're coming to OC are you going to be testing or tested?  it would be nice if you get to instruct us at least once, so we get the feel of how others train, you know?


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## 7starmantis (May 12, 2006)

mantis said:
			
		

> i've someone from my school who visited TX schools. she's a brown belt, she said her legs started hurting and shaking during the first 5 min's!
> even on your website, you have 1 min horse stance, 1 mile run for beginners and so on!
> it's a bummer when our instructors take it easy on us sometimes.
> when you're coming to OC are you going to be testing or tested?  it would be nice if you get to instruct us at least once, so we get the feel of how others train, you know?


Heh, we do work out pretty hard. Remember though its a process. I've been training here with my sifu for over 5 years now, it didn't start like this. Plus, its no race or anything, I tell people to just take their time and progress as they can, anything else would be pushing and I dont think you can really push someone to be good, they have to want it. You guys will get there, dont worry 
I'm coming to test, I will be doing my forms and fighting along with your instructors to be tested. Its a test for those who want to really progress and become a "disciple" of the style under the Exchange. I think its open to students from any of the exchange schools after they reach the black 1 level at their respective schools.
It would be nice to do a class with you guys, we thought we were going to get to last year, but didn't end up that way, we'll see this year. If we did we would sit in as students, if anyone taught it would be my sifu.

7sm


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## mantis (May 12, 2006)

7starmantis said:
			
		

> Heh, we do work out pretty hard. Remember though its a process. I've been training here with my sifu for over 5 years now, it didn't start like this. Plus, its no race or anything, I tell people to just take their time and progress as they can, anything else would be pushing and I dont think you can really push someone to be good, they have to want it. You guys will get there, dont worry
> I'm coming to test, I will be doing my forms and fighting along with your instructors to be tested. Its a test for those who want to really progress and become a "disciple" of the style under the Exchange. I think its open to students from any of the exchange schools after they reach the black 1 level at their respective schools.
> It would be nice to do a class with you guys, we thought we were going to get to last year, but didn't end up that way, we'll see this year. If we did we would sit in as students, if anyone taught it would be my sifu.
> 
> 7sm


oh, thats not good.. that means you guys will only do it for BB class or at least the recommended, or advanced class... hmm... maybe the year after i'll be there!
i want to make sure I meet you in person though. It'd be an honor


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## 7starmantis (May 12, 2006)

mantis said:
			
		

> oh, thats not good.. that means you guys will only do it for BB class or at least the recommended, or advanced class... hmm... maybe the year after i'll be there!
> i want to make sure I meet you in person though. It'd be an honor



We probably wont have time at all anyway. Thank you, it would be an honor to meet you as well. Look forward to it.

7sm


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## Dronak (May 16, 2006)

FWIW, here's a page with a little bit of information about the tan tui I learned in classes a few years back -- http://www.geocities.com/yunhsinyoung/english/tantui.html
This page and the site it's on (http://www.geocities.com/yunhsinyoung/ which uses frames) is written by one of my teacher's seniors, so I know it's the same style, lineage, etc. as what I was taught.  I don't think there's very much new information in there that the other web sites and articles don't cover.  What I did find interesting though was that our tan tui originally had 8 routines, then 2 more routines were added at/by the Central Chinese Martial Art Institute.  I was never taught the 10th routine of the set (I think our teacher couldn't remember it well enough to teach it to us before he left), but the author of the page above said that's OK, practicing the first 8 is fine because that's what the set started out with.  I like completeness, so I'd like to learn the 10th routine eventually, but I'll be satisfied with the 9 we did learn, knowing that we've got the original 8.  Just some comments.


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## mantis (May 16, 2006)

that's interesting
thanks Dronak

does anyone know which 2 forms Huo Yuan Jia added to the 10 tan tui's from cha quan?
i am assuming they are the last 2, unless i am told otherwise.
why did he add them? what did he add to them?!
also, do all tan tui's around the world look alike?  why do i see mantis moves in some of them, although they're not supposed to be developed by mantis masters?


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## mantis (May 16, 2006)

ah
answering my own question
i found these online
these are very similar to what we do (i'd say they're the same but my eyes arent helping me decide that confidently)
11 and 12
then 5 through 10
and finally 1 through 4

is this what some or most of you guys practiced?
if not, what's different?


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## North Star (Jun 24, 2006)

Not to brag about obscurity *at all*, but I have yet to see or read anything about _tan tui _which is like the _tan tui_ that I practise. It is called _Shi Lu Tan Tui,_ is Moslem and is composed of 10 roads. It is completely linear and is from _Mi Zhong, _or _Yin Chin._

Anybody know anything about it ? Or even the different names of your _tan tui _?


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## mantis (Jun 24, 2006)

North Star said:
			
		

> Not to brag about obscurity *at all*, but I have yet to see or read anything about _tan tui _which is like the _tan tui_ that I practise. It is called _Shi Lu Tan Tui,_ is Moslem and is composed of 10 roads. It is completely linear and is from _Mi Zhong, _or _Yin Chin._
> 
> Anybody know anything about it ? Or even the different names of your _tan tui _?


shi lu tan tui means '10 roads spring legs', so that would be what we all practice, isnt it?


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## Dronak (Jun 24, 2006)

In the past, I was able to find a couple of web sites that covered the same style of northern Shaolin long fist kung fu that I was being taught in college club classes.  One of them had pictures of the main postures/positions in the tan tui routines.  It also contained names next to the pictures . . . in Chinese.  I asked the person who runs the site I mentioned before about translating this, and he said that he would try to translate it when he could.  As far as I know, he hasn't done so yet.  But if you're interested, this image of the tan tui routine names might be of interest.  If you can read Chinese and translate the names, please let me know.  I'd really like to know them.  I have ways to remember which number is which routine, but they're kind of dumb (e.g., 5 = the one we never do  ), so I'd like to have real names to attach to the routines.  Thanks.

P.S. -- For what it's worth, almost all of the information I've seen on tan tui have routines that are similar, but not identical, to the ones I learned.  And usually the higher the routine number, the less similar it is to what I learned.  Only a few web sites, apparently by classmates of my teacher, had the same thing we learned and I think most of them are down now.


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## North Star (Jun 25, 2006)

mantis said:
			
		

> shi lu tan tui means '10 roads spring legs', so that would be what we all practice, isnt it?



Well yes and no ... I have seen many 12 set routines and many 10 set routines which are very different.

Tho I spoke to my sishong and he said that the tan tui we have learned is actually very common (at least in China and Taiwan) -- my post was only going by what I have had difficulty/been unable to find on the internet.


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## mantis (Jun 25, 2006)

North Star said:
			
		

> Well yes and no ... I have seen many 12 set routines and many 10 set routines which are very different.
> 
> Tho I spoke to my sishong and he said that the tan tui we have learned is actually very common (at least in China and Taiwan) -- my post was only going by what I have had difficulty/been unable to find on the internet.


i see what you're saying.  i've had difficulty finding my exact ones too, but i managed to find 'similar' things. they are similar enough to make me remember which one is number 10 for example.


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