# Wasp spray vs pepper spray



## shesulsa (Dec 16, 2009)

I received this in my email today:



> A receptionist in a church in a high risk area  was concerned about   someone coming into the office on Monday to rob them when they were counting   the collection.  She asked the local police department about using pepper spray   and they recommended to her that she get a can of wasp spray instead.
> 
> The wasp spray, they told her, can shoot up to twenty feet away and is a lot   more accurate, while with the pepper spray, they have to get too close to you   and could overpower you. The wasp spray temporarily blinds an attacker until   they get to the hospital for an antidote.  She keeps a can on her desk   in the office and it doesn't attract attention from people like a can of   pepper spray would. She also keeps one nearby at home for home protection.   Thought this was interesting and might be of use.
> 
> ...



I'm seeing this pasted in a number of different places and can't really originate the article, so I feel I can't attribute it correctly.

While I'm a big fan of improvising when you have to - grasping whatever is within reach, etcetera, etcetera ... I can't get behind carrying insecticide as an intended self-defense weapon.

There is the obligatory snopes article, of course, outlining the obvious. 

Has anyone else had this one come across your email?


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## shesulsa (Dec 16, 2009)

Ah - here is a link to Glinka on the news giving this advice to Toledo residents.


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## Touch Of Death (Dec 16, 2009)

It sounds like attempted murder, but I guess that's the point. I can see lots of legal issues springing from this tactic of self defense.
Sean


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## Tez3 (Dec 16, 2009)

If it's going around in an email and people here keep such a can by them it's going to be more than obvious what it's for as we don't have wasps or hornets (which are rare anyway) here in the winter!


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## shesulsa (Dec 16, 2009)

Yeah, I don't have too many wasps or hornets in my bedroom ... nor in my car ... nor in my purse.


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## Touch Of Death (Dec 16, 2009)

shesulsa said:


> Yeah, I don't have too many wasps or hornets in my bedroom ... nor in my car ... nor in my purse.


What's your mailing address?
Sean


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## shesulsa (Dec 16, 2009)

Touch Of Death said:


> What's your mailing address?
> Sean



100 Smith-Wesson Way
Apartment .45
Kickurass, Comengeddit, 12345

:wuguns:


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## Carol (Dec 16, 2009)

shesulsa said:


> 100 Smith-Wesson Way
> Apartment .45
> Kickurass, Comengeddit, 12345
> 
> :wuguns:




Next time we have a chance to train together, I may have to share a few tricks of my stealth martial art, Aishu-Tibeta.  

No bad guys bother me because Aishu-Tibeta.   It doesn't matter whether your gun is bigger than mine, because Aishu-Tibeta.   :lol:


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## Andy Moynihan (Dec 16, 2009)

shesulsa said:


> I received this in my email today:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

I guess the cops forgot to advise them about that little warning on WD-40, Raid, and all those other aerosol cans( go on, check, they've all got it) that states it's a Federal crime to use them for any but their intended purpose......


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## Carol (Dec 16, 2009)

I wouldn't keep this in my office, and there is no way in hell I'd carry it as a defensive tool.  I'm not even that sure it would be useful at home.  

I have a cat that I have already had to rush to the animal hospital after he ingested a small amount of of the oil-based bug repellent that I use when hiking in the mountains.   I'd hate to see him get sick if he accidentally paws something and sprays the spray, or if I use it spraying across the room.  

I suspect that if I have to defend myself in my own home, I would prolly need something stronger than bug spray.


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## MA-Caver (Dec 17, 2009)

Andy Moynihan said:


> I guess the cops forgot to advise them about that little warning on WD-40, Raid, and all those other aerosol cans( go on, check, they've all got it) that states it's a Federal crime to use them for any but their intended purpose......


Exactly... there are a LOT of things with that warning label on them... also the possibility that the wasp stuff could cause permanent blindness, or destroy vision to the point where a person is legally blind, or any other harmful effects... hey you defended yourself pretty good with that wasp-spray... now lets see how you defend yourself against a lawsuit... remember these animals DO manage to win such cases. 



Carol said:


> I wouldn't keep this in my office, and there is no way in hell I'd carry it as a defensive tool.  I'm not even that sure it would be useful at home.
> 
> I have a cat that I have already had to rush to the animal hospital after he ingested a small amount of of the oil-based bug repellent that I use when hiking in the mountains.   I'd hate to see him get sick if he accidentally paws something and sprays the spray, or if I use it spraying across the room.
> 
> I suspect that if I have to defend myself in my own home, I would prolly need something stronger than bug spray.


Right... a S&W .45 should do the trick.


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## ELLEN (Dec 17, 2009)

*great idea, and wasp spray would work....except for one little detail...it's illegal in ca, as it could permenently blind someone, so here, pepper spray is the way to go.  (unless you want a massive law suit on your hands....).*
*ellen*


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## shesulsa (Dec 17, 2009)

ELLEN said:


> *great idea, and wasp spray would work....except for one little detail...it's illegal in ca, as it could permenently blind someone, so here, pepper spray is the way to go.  (unless you want a massive law suit on your hands....).*
> *ellen*



This seems to be the most common contraindication to using it - lawsuit and prison time.

Don't forget - what you can use on others can also be used on you.


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## Flea (Dec 17, 2009)

Of course there's also bear spray.  I got a first-hand demo of this on my road trip last month.  As I checked into one hotel I commenced to clearing my throat at the desk; the attendant said some one had discharged a canister of it in a room several hours before.  I thought I could tough it out, but checked out after only half an hour.  Damn stuff stayed with me for four days.

On the plus side, I didn't see a single bear _anywhere_ in the hotel during that time.


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## sgtmac_46 (Dec 17, 2009)

More importantly, we are only assuming that it is effective........does anyone know of someone being sprayed with Wasp spray?  Have we seen this tested against someone in a self-defense situation?  Doubtful........so as usual it's someone talking out of their backside.

I've been sprayed with several different OC sprays.......some of them are extremely effective, and I know they are effective because I have experienced them and seen them work.........don't know anyone sprayed with Wasp spray.

As for Val Glinka.......he's the PE teacher at Sylvania South Highschool.......http://www.ratemyteachers.com/val-glinka/44648-t/1


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## frank raud (Dec 17, 2009)

Carol said:


> I wouldn't keep this in my office, and there is no way in hell I'd carry it as a defensive tool. I'm not even that sure it would be useful at home.


 
Wasp spray usually comes in a 20 oz spray can, I doubt you have room in your purse for something that size, and you can't discreetly carry it in a holster.

I doubt any police officer would reccomend wasp spray over pepper spray for the many reasons already mentioned in this thread.


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## MJS (Dec 17, 2009)

Personally, if a woman had the choice to carry wasp spray or pepper spray, the latter is the best choice, for obvious reasons, one of them being size.  Has there been a study of what happens if one is sprayed in the eyes with wasp spray?  No idea, but given the fact that on any chemical, there is a list of suggestions, should it be sprayed in the eyes, ingested, etc., I'd imagine it'd have some sort of effect.

Legality...well, that could apply to anything we do, empty handed or with a weapon.  Permanently blind someone...well, I could permanently remove someone from the planet, were I to shoot and kill them, so its 6 of one, half dozen of another.  

So, would I run out to the store and buy a can of wasp spary for my wife?  No.  If I did have some in the house, and were someone to break in and start attacking her, and that happened to be the only thing within her reach, would I encourage her to grab it and use it?  Yes.


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## Archangel M (Dec 17, 2009)

Using wasp spray as an improvised weapon? Sure.

Buying wasp spray INTENTIONALLY for this purpose? I don't think that would work out so well for you.

PS-While that fed warning is on the can...I really haven't heard the feds making too many "federal cases" out of muggers being sprayed with wasp killer.


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## shesulsa (Dec 17, 2009)

sgtmac_46 said:


> More importantly, we are only assuming that it is effective........does anyone know of someone being sprayed with Wasp spray?  Have we seen this tested against someone in a self-defense situation?  Doubtful........so as usual it's someone talking out of their backside.
> 
> I've been sprayed with several different OC sprays.......some of them are extremely effective, and I know they are effective because I have experienced them and seen them work.........don't know anyone sprayed with Wasp spray.
> 
> As for Val Glinka.......he's the PE teacher at Sylvania South Highschool.......http://www.ratemyteachers.com/val-glinka/44648-t/1



His self-defense credentials aren't mentioned in any article I've read about him nor in any new story I've seen in my research for this thread.



frank raud said:


> Wasp spray usually comes in a 20 oz spray can, I doubt you have room in your purse for something that size, and you can't discreetly carry it in a holster.
> 
> I doubt any police officer would reccomend wasp spray over pepper spray for the many reasons already mentioned in this thread.



I would have to agree. The email circulating states a "local church receptionist" got the idea from "local police officers" who allegedly state it's more accurate than OC spray and sprays a longer distance.

Either the advice is old or it's bunk.  

You can obtain OC spray which sprays up to 30 feet away which is the typical distance wasp spray is designed to propel.

**EDITED TO ADD** Just found this on a sherriff's blog!


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## MJS (Dec 17, 2009)

One more thought regarding the laws and what is moral and what isn't.  Reading this thread, I started to think back to one that I started a while ago.  It was about people who train, but are afraid to defend themselves.  Now, I may seem like I'm being 'macho', cold hearted, whatever, but, the bottom line is this...there are proven cases of people complying fully with the badguy, and still getting their heads blown off.  If there is a chance that I'm going to die at the hands of this POS anyways, I may as well die fighting.  

That being said...the #1 thought going thru my mind, at the time of an attack, is the safety and well being of me, and anyone with me, be it my wife, mother, sister, anyone!  I dont feel sorry for the supposed 'bad life' that the guy who's trying to rob me of my personal belongings, had.  I DONT CARE!  He is violating me and I'm not going to feel sorry for anything that happens to him.  I wonder if the bleeding hearts, would feel as sorry for me, as they seem to, about the bad guy.  So, if this guy gets shot, stabbed, blinded, crippled, whatever, if its him or me or my family, I'm going to do anything and everything to make sure that I and my loved ones are safe.  I'll deal with the political BS later on.


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## Touch Of Death (Dec 17, 2009)

shesulsa said:


> This seems to be the most common contraindication to using it - lawsuit and prison time.
> 
> Don't forget - what you can use on others can also be used on you.


 This is true, I could see an angry attacker, feeding the rest of the bottle to its user.
Sean


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## Touch Of Death (Dec 17, 2009)

Farrah Facet used this tactic on a bad guy in some movie once.
Sean


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## Touch Of Death (Dec 17, 2009)

shesulsa said:


> 100 Smith-Wesson Way
> Apartment .45
> Kickurass, Comengeddit, 12345
> 
> :wuguns:


No wasps for you then.
Sean


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## still learning (Dec 17, 2009)

Hello, Another Legal to carry effective spray....CRC spray....

NOT as far as Wasp sprays...!

If someone is defending one self.....always tried to gather a weapon(s) to increase the levelage to your flavor....

Bad guys....want to win....YOU do not want to lose....

In most cases...those using the Wasp sprays..is do so to protect themselves...let the laws fiqure it out later...(anything you use for a weapon can be use against you...(you pens,computor note book, a shoes..etc..

Wasp spray is just another tool for the innocent to consider without causing a Death? ...in most cases...

Better to be arm with something to use to escape a bad sitution...and live the next day....survived!

Aloha,  check out CRC spray..


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## Jdokan (Dec 18, 2009)

Wasp Spray...great idea...used in combination with a Hamilton Beach Battery operated carving knife you have an unbeatable pair....Spray'm & Filet'm.......nice!!!


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## Mider1985 (Dec 19, 2009)

Is wasp spray really that toxic that it could kill someone? I guess if the cops recommended it to her she should just do what they say they wouldnt or SHOULDNT give her illegal advice. Secondly if they break and enter thats well duh breaking and entering which justifies leathal force. Its one thing to be on someones property thats traspassing not a justifiable reason to shoot someone (sept in some states) But yeah breaking into someones house well........i mean if your gonna do that you better be sure you might get shot with SOMETHING, better the wasp spray then a Wildey magnum with a 10 inch barrel. Or something else i uno a bat? 

But..........instead of pepper spray or wasp spray why not use pepper foam? Pepper spray is tricky and you need training to do it, and obviously wasp spray can bring up legal issues, on the other hand pepper foam is not affected by the wind like the pepper spray, and it sticks to your face its really painful REALLY PAINFUL you can buy it from coldsteel.com i think. 

Its kinda interesting that the invention of pepper spray was not the first none leathal weapon. Even the ninja's used the black egg filled with crushed class or spices that would blinde you i think permanatly, definatly permanatly if you get hit in the face with broken glass and it goes in your eyes. The African Zulu tribe would eat a certain spice till they grew immune to it over the years then they would swollow it in liquid form during a fight and then they could spit it in your face. The Spartan shield is kinda a non leathal weapon isnt it? You can hit someone with the edge of that and BOOM BROKEN BONE.

Anyway.......yeah find an alternative to killing the person you dont wanna have that on your concionse unless you have absolutly no choice. Or buy a stun gun but not to high a voltage. The nervous system cant handle that no matter how big and tough you are you will go down.


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## sgtmac_46 (Dec 19, 2009)

I don't question the lethality of Wasp Spray, I question it's effectiveness versus OC.......is it really more effective than OC at stopping a violent attack.


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## jks9199 (Dec 19, 2009)

sgtmac_46 said:


> I don't question the lethality of Wasp Spray, I question it's effectiveness versus OC.......is it really more effective than OC at stopping a violent attack.


I doubt it's nearly as effective as OC.  Unless, of course, you're being attacked by a giant sized wasp.

And, in response to another poster's comment, pepper foam is no different than pepper spray.  It's just a different carrier system.  Neither require any extensive training to use.  Both can be effected by wind.   Know which end of the canister is the business end, and which way it sprays... aim for the forehead/eyes/face.


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## shesulsa (Dec 19, 2009)

Well ... remember pesticides are neurotoxins.  The reality of permanent vision loss is such that a federal warning label was deemed necessary.

The movie referenced above about a woman who is attacked in her home was based on a play - both with the same title:  "Extremities." The intended victim turns the tables on her attacker, rendering him helpless and one of the things she did was spray him in the face with insecticide.

It is important to note here that it was nearby and opportune during a vicious attack.

The would-be victim manages to tie up her attacker and when her roommate comes home and friend comes over, the attacker manipulates the conversation like he was rather innocent and his victim lured him into being tied up which was followed by intentional, slow torture.  Evidenced are his raw, blistered eyes and his inability to see.

His story is so compelling and his method so manipulative the friends begin to round on her as the attacker, as though there were something else she could have done.

I'm not about to spray insecticide in my eyes to figure out if it causes blindness or not - I'll trust the poison control center's warning of such.

Nevertheless, if it's the only thing in reach, then have at it ... just beware that if you make SURE it is in reach (on your desk, nightstand, kitchen counter, closet, car, purse, etcetera) you may be liable for something you don't want to go to prison for.


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## Mider1985 (Dec 19, 2009)

Yeah but you need training to spray that stuff properly......its not just spray and boom your done..........the spray stays on the person and it affects people near by, if its windy it will send the spray in other directions even a little is not pleasent i should know as a kid my grandfather was spraying ants with mace (dont make fun) and i got a windful of it it wasnt pleasent at all. Like i said pepper foam is better or some kind of gel it makes the wind less of a problem. and Hopefully it makes other people being around less of a problem when i saw the inferno spray used ons omeone i saw people around the poor sucker who was being tested on. They were close by with no masks or goggles so it seemed to only affect him but it sure as hell worked, he had to have his faced dunked in water and more water and more water and have drops in his eyes it was PAINFUL.

And the tasers well they will work on anyone but with all the deaths that have been accuring i guess its best to buy a lower voltage cause your basically electricuting someone


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## jks9199 (Dec 19, 2009)

Mider1985 said:


> Yeah but you need training to spray that stuff properly......its not just spray and boom your done..........the spray stays on the person and it affects people near by, if its windy it will send the spray in other directions even a little is not pleasent i should know as a kid my grandfather was spraying ants with mace (dont make fun) and i got a windful of it it wasnt pleasent at all. Like i said pepper foam is better or some kind of gel it makes the wind less of a problem. and Hopefully it makes other people being around less of a problem when i saw the inferno spray used ons omeone i saw people around the poor sucker who was being tested on. They were close by with no masks or goggles so it seemed to only affect him but it sure as hell worked, he had to have his faced dunked in water and more water and more water and have drops in his eyes it was PAINFUL.
> 
> And the tasers well they will work on anyone but with all the deaths that have been accuring i guess its best to buy a lower voltage cause your basically electricuting someone


No, you don't.  

That's why the frigging stuff is sold in about a bazillion places, as keychains and flashlights, and lots of other things.

OC is simple; it really is "spray & pray" because, in my experience -- it works best on cops.  And is least effective on drunk/drugged/otherwise-altered consciousness ogres who are attacking people...

Oh, and, in case you wondered, yeah, I do know what I'm talking about, since I carry a canister of the damn stuff on my duty belt at work.

And the Taser is nothing like electrocuting someone.  

Are you copying your ideas out of the back of a comic book or something?


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## Archangel M (Dec 19, 2009)

15-17 yo I'm guessing.


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## Mider1985 (Dec 21, 2009)

jks9199 said:


> No, you don't.
> 
> That's why the frigging stuff is sold in about a bazillion places, as keychains and flashlights, and lots of other things.
> 
> ...


 
Dude pepper spray and mace are very tricky if you think its so easy then why dont you use it on a windy day and see what happens


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## jks9199 (Dec 21, 2009)

Mider1985 said:


> Dude pepper spray and mace are very tricky if you think its so easy then why dont you use it on a windy day and see what happens


Let's see...

Don't spray a stream of liquid fire into the wind if you can help it.  Yep; that's special training.  I'm presuming you are male; unless you grew up in the inner city, you probably learned that one with a different fluid by age 7 or so...

Jim Croce even addressed the principle:
[yt]YQrTGE4wwwA[/yt]

I've got a simple question for you. What qualifies you to speak on the issue?  I'm a working cop; I've used the stuff.  I've experienced it.  I know something of what I speak.  You still sound like a kid cribbing from the back of *The Punisher's War Journal* or old copies of _Soldier of Fortune*.*_


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## shesulsa (Dec 22, 2009)

Jim ... just a gentle word here, if you don't mind ... I acknowledge it doesn't take any formal "training" to use pepper spray/mace ... but I have run into the occasional person who didn't realize you really need to have the thing in your hands and ensure the nozzle is pointed in the right direction before use. A handful of women who have attended my classes owned and carried pepper spray but had never bothered to read the instructions nor inspect the canister and/or nozzle.  They counted on reaching into their large, full purses, finding it right away, pulling it out, extending their arms and depressing the button.

Yes, there are people out there that are that stupid.  

:idunno:


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## MJS (Dec 22, 2009)

shesulsa said:


> Jim ... just a gentle word here, if you don't mind ... I acknowledge it doesn't take any formal "training" to use pepper spray/mace ... but I have run into the occasional person who didn't realize you really need to have the thing in your hands and ensure the nozzle is pointed in the right direction before use. A handful of women who have attended my classes owned and carried pepper spray but had never bothered to read the instructions nor inspect the canister and/or nozzle. They counted on reaching into their large, full purses, finding it right away, pulling it out, extending their arms and depressing the button.
> 
> Yes, there are people out there that are that stupid.
> 
> :idunno:


 
Thus, one of the main reasons why I feel that if anyone is going to carry any weapon, be it a can of pepper spray, a kubotan, a gun, a knife, whatever, that they get the proper training to not only use it, but to also know how to draw it for use.


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## jks9199 (Dec 22, 2009)

shesulsa said:


> Jim ... just a gentle word here, if you don't mind ... I acknowledge it doesn't take any formal "training" to use pepper spray/mace ... but I have run into the occasional person who didn't realize you really need to have the thing in your hands and ensure the nozzle is pointed in the right direction before use. A handful of women who have attended my classes owned and carried pepper spray but had never bothered to read the instructions nor inspect the canister and/or nozzle.  They counted on reaching into their large, full purses, finding it right away, pulling it out, extending their arms and depressing the button.
> 
> Yes, there are people out there that are that stupid.
> 
> :idunno:


Absolutely; that's why I often mention that if you opt to carry pepper spray, get a container that you can tell by feel which way it's pointing.  For example, the pepper spray containers most cops use on duty have a some form of safety flap or cover, which only opens so that it's pointing the right way.  (I know that's kind of confusing; I can't find a good picture...)  And it's worthwhile to know how to decontaminate (lots of water does the job, and so does time).  It doesn't hurt to have some guidance in where to spray (across the eyes so that the OC enters them, and can drip down to the nose & mouth).

But none of this is essential or required.  And I don't count it as "special training." 

And all the training in the world isn't going to really help someone who is carrying it as a talisman -- which is a lot of people.  Male and female.  They'll participate in training, given an opportunity, but it's not going to effect how they carry it.  They carry it as a talisman to keep bad things from happening; many don't really want to know the facts or face the reality.  They're like some people who buy a gun for "home defense" but never take it to the range, and may not even know how to load it.


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## Jdokan (Dec 22, 2009)

shesulsa said:


> Jim ... just a gentle word here, if you don't mind ... I acknowledge it doesn't take any formal "training" to use pepper spray/mace ... but I have run into the occasional person who didn't realize you really need to have the thing in your hands and ensure the nozzle is pointed in the right direction before use. *A handful *of women who have attended my classes owned and carried pepper spray *but had never bothered to read the instructions *nor inspect the canister and/or nozzle.  They counted on reaching into their large, full purses, finding it right away, pulling it out, extending their arms and depressing the button.
> 
> Yes, there are people out there that are that stupid.
> 
> :idunno:



These the same ones that get burnt by McDonalds coffee?  Sorry...:uhyeah:


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## Phoenix44 (Dec 24, 2009)

You should only spray someone with bug spray if your intent is to kill him.  It can cause a fatal pneumonitis if it's inhaled.  There's no "antidote," because it's not a drug-like toxicity.  It interferes with oxygen exchange across the lung membrane, and causes physical damage to the lungs.  The treatment is pulmonary lavage and a respirator.  And if the person lives, the lungs may be permanently damaged.

So it may piss you off if someone is trying to steal your TV set, but you should be aware of the consequences of your retaliatory effort.


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## sgtmac_46 (Dec 25, 2009)

Phoenix44 said:


> You should only spray someone with bug spray if your intent is to kill him.  It can cause a fatal pneumonitis if it's inhaled.  There's no "antidote," because it's not a drug-like toxicity.  It interferes with oxygen exchange across the lung membrane, and causes physical damage to the lungs.  The treatment is pulmonary lavage and a respirator.  And if the person lives, the lungs may be permanently damaged.
> 
> So it may piss you off if someone is trying to steal your TV set, but you should be aware of the consequences of your retaliatory effort.



Fortunately in Missouri someone stealing your TV set from your house is justification for a shotgun blast to face.......as Burglary 1st Degree is considered a crime that the homeowner is automatically presumed to be in fear for their life when confronting.


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## sgtmac_46 (Dec 25, 2009)

jks9199 said:


> Let's see...
> 
> Don't spray a stream of liquid fire into the wind if you can help it.  Yep; that's special training.  I'm presuming you are male; unless you grew up in the inner city, you probably learned that one with a different fluid by age 7 or so...
> 
> ...



What's wrong with those old Punisher War Journals?

At any rate, i'm a working street cop too, have been for 12 years now......and i'm still amazed by the number of cops who can screw up a one-car parade with a can of pepper spray.............'Simple' ain't always.


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## sgtmac_46 (Dec 25, 2009)

jks9199 said:


> No, you don't.
> 
> That's why the frigging stuff is sold in about a bazillion places, as keychains and flashlights, and lots of other things.
> 
> ...



I've found the problem with Pepper Spray, even with most cops, is the unrealistic expectations associated with it.

I've found OC Spray to be EXTREMELY effective.....when properly applied......but effective at what?  For me, all it has to be is effective at causing a distraction, while I apply an effective takedown and subsequent handcuffing.

Of course the OTHER problem is that most Departments carry the old Def-Tec First Defense spray, which is about as potent as the average serving of General Tso's Chicken.......OC Spray effectiveness in some sense is like talking about handgun calibers.........this versus that ends up often times being relative........but in the case of First Defense, it's like carrying a .25 ACP as a duty weapon.



Of course you are correct about it working so well on cops.......I may be biased by the fact that it doesn't particularly effect me on the street like it does in training, so much so that i've been famous for using OC Spray as a grappling tool, not really concerned whether I get spray all over me, if it gets all over the face of the suspect........if I had the kind of adverse reactions some officers I know have I would not think as highly of OC Spray.


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