# Shootings at US army base.



## Tez3 (Nov 5, 2009)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8345713.stm

this is just coming through on our news, sounds awful! Anyone know more about it?


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## CoryKS (Nov 5, 2009)

They're reporting that one of the shooters is a US Army major.  Major Malik Nadal Hasan.  But don't read too much into that, of course, he was probably just stressed.


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## J Ellis (Nov 5, 2009)

We're hearing 12 confirmed dead and over 20 injured. One of the dead is a gunman. The report was three gunman, all soldiers.

:asian:

Joel


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## Stac3y (Nov 5, 2009)

12 dead and 31 wounded. This is about 60 miles from me.


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## Tez3 (Nov 5, 2009)

My heart goes out to the friends and families, more so for those waiting for news.
It's late here so have to go off to bed, work early in morning. If there's any sort of thing like a memorial book, fund etc going to be put in place please could someone post up for me? I know it's early yet but would like to pay respects and let someone know us over the water in our Garrison are thinking of them.


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## seasoned (Nov 5, 2009)

Very sad.


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## Carol (Nov 5, 2009)

Sad.  Disgusting.  Horrible. 

http://www.9wsyr.com/content/news/b...od-ABC-identifies/eiYdLkNHr0mkJ9VVi0AOSA.cspx



> According to a source on the base, it is rare for firearms to be on the base because they are locked up.



In addition, soldiers are not issued the carry permits that a private citizen may apply for.  In addition, while in uniform and/or on (non-combat) duty, a soldier generally cannot carry a personal weapon.

The soldiers had no way of fighting back.  What a dispicable, cowardly act.


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## Bob Hubbard (Nov 5, 2009)

http://abcnews.go.com/WN/soldiers-killed-fort-hood-shooting/story?id=9007938
"Twelve people have been killed and 31 wounded"
"The suspected gunman was identified by ABC News as Major Malik Nadal Hasan."
"
 The shooter was killed and two other suspects, who are also soldiers, have been apprehended, Lt. Gen. Robert W. Cone said. 
 The general said there were "eyewitness accounts of more than one shooter," and the others were tracked to an adjacent facility."




http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/11/05/texas.fort.hood.shootings/index.html


> The slain gunman was identified as Maj. Malik Nadal Hasan, according to a law enforcement source. The source believes he is 39 or 40 years old.
> Ten of the other dead also were soldiers, while the remaining one was a civilian police officer who was working as a contractor on the base, Cone said.
> Two of the injured were in "very serious" condition, Fort Hood spokesman Christopher Hogue said.
> Watch developments live
> More than one shooter may have been involved, Cone said.




http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,572305,00.html


> * A shooting rampage Thursday afternoon at the Army's Fort Hood in Texas killed 11 and wounded 31 before the gunman was killed and two suspects taken into custody.*
> All three of the people believed to have carried out the shooting were soldiers, Lt. General Bob Cone told reporters Thursday evening, though the motive remains unclear.
> AP cites an unnamed source saying the gunman was Major Malik Nadal Hasan, though authorities have not publicly identified him.
> Cone said witnesses reported seeing more than one shooter, but that couldn't be confirmed. The primary shooter used two handguns, he said.


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## MBuzzy (Nov 5, 2009)

He was in the deployment processing center at the time.  

Apparently he had just gotten orders to deploy.


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## Andy Moynihan (Nov 5, 2009)

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, Over ?   


There is no punishment on this mortal Earth hard enough for those who strike down their own brothers and sisters in arms.:rpo: :rpo: :rpo:


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## Carol (Nov 5, 2009)

So...was he saving the lives of Muslims?  *



AP: Officials had concerns about Fort Hood suspect*

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=120149742


The posting in question:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/3989813/Martyrdom-in-Islam-Versus-Suicide-Bombing


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## Carol (Nov 5, 2009)

BREAKING NEWS: 

The shooter is alive!

http://abcnews.go.com/WN/fort-hood-shooting-army-doctor-leaves-12-dead/Story?id=9007938&page=1

 The shooter was initially reported to have been killed, but Lt. Gen. Robert W. Cone told a late night news conference that the suspect was wounded and in custody. Cone would not say what Hasan's medical condition was, but said the suspect was not in danger of dying. 
 Hasan is not talking to authorities, said Cone. 
 The officer emphasized that there was only one gunman. Two other soldiers were taken into custody, but were later released.


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## Big Don (Nov 5, 2009)

The cynic in me sees a psychiatrist who went ape, and expects an insanity plea.


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## d1jinx (Nov 5, 2009)

sickening.  

brothers be warned... the enemy is within.


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## Bob Hubbard (Nov 5, 2009)

How long to make Major?


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## Wild Bill (Nov 5, 2009)

If he took the natural route he would have to be in  a while. I have heard that he has been in the Army since before 9/11.


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## Bob Hubbard (Nov 6, 2009)

Has there been any confirmation from a reliable source that the shooter was Muslim?  Other than the "I saw his name and I just knew it was time for another anti-muslim rant" crowd that's all over Facebook?  I haven't seen it confirmed or not yet.


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## Big Don (Nov 6, 2009)

Bob Hubbard said:


> Has there been any confirmation from a reliable source that the shooter was Muslim?  Other than the "I saw his name and I just knew it was time for another anti-muslim rant" crowd that's all over Facebook?  I haven't seen it confirmed or not yet.


Fox had a cousin of his on the phone, stated, unequivocally that he was a lifelong Muslim.


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## Bob Hubbard (Nov 6, 2009)

Thank you Don.


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## Carol (Nov 6, 2009)

Wild Bill said:


> If he took the natural route he would have to be in  a while. I have heard that he has been in the Army since before 9/11.



Which he almost undoubtedly was.  His undergrad was from VA Tech where he was ROTC, graduating in 1997.  He earned his medical degree at USUHC which means he would have been commissioned as 2nd Lieutenant upon entering.

Assuming he graduated from VA Tech in the Spring of 1997 and started at USUHC shortly thereafter, he's been a commissioned officer for 12 years.  

Rank of Major sounds appropriate for his length of service.


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## Carol (Nov 6, 2009)

Big Don said:


> Fox had a cousin of his on the phone, stated, unequivocally that he was a lifelong Muslim.



Associated Press is also reporting that his cousins, and the Imam at his mosque stating he's a lifelong Muslim. 

There is a lot of ink going around saying he's a Muslim convert, but no one making those claims is backing it up with anything.


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## KenpoTex (Nov 6, 2009)

report of internet posts/blogs/whatever, possibly [probably] by the shooter in which he compares suicide bombers to soldiers who throw themselves on grenades to save their brothers-in-arms.
http://www.kxan.com/dpp/news/national/south/Concerns_about_Fort_Hood_suspect_200911051257473157854

report that the shooter shouted "Allahu Akbar" before opening fire.
http://www.kxan.com/dpp/military/fo...id-allahu-akbar-before-shooting-1257511372267

edit: nevermind...don't feel like hearing the PC ******** from everyone else around here regarding what I really think about this pig-****er and his religion of peace.


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## Stac3y (Nov 6, 2009)

He had been harrassed for being Muslim, and had tried to get out of his contract early as a result, but his attorney said even if he paid back his tuition, he would not be released. The stuff about comparing suicide bombers to GIs falling on grenades has not been confirmed to be written by him. His cousin said he was desperately trying to avoid being deployed because he had heard so much horrible stuff from returning soldiers. (from an article on MSNBC, and the press conference from Cone last night--carried live on our local news station.)

As yet, I don't have enough information to form an opinion as to whether he did this from some political or religious motivation, or whether he just lost his mind. Either way, it's a terrible tragedy.


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## MBuzzy (Nov 6, 2009)

Bob Hubbard said:


> How long to make Major?


 
Promotion to 1Lt after 2 years
Promotion to Capt after 4 years total (i.e. 2 years AS a 1LT)
Promotion to Major as early as 8 years total, as late as 12 years total depending on the person (i.e. 4-8 years AS a Capt)
Promotion to Lt Col as early as 12 years total, as late as 18 years total, (i.e. 4-8 years AS a Lt Col)

So if he commissioned in '97, he could have pinned on as early as 4 years ago or he could have JUST been promoted.


BUT - he isn't a line officer.  He's in the Medical Corps.  They don't all always come in as 2LT's.  Some are direct commissions to Capt or later.  Plus, he would have had to earn his Masters and done some residency time even as a Shrink.  SO, this could all be thrown out....

Honestly, in the Army, if he has never been deployed, he can't have been in long.  I know Army guys that are on their 6th deployment with only 8 years in.


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## Bob Hubbard (Nov 6, 2009)

I'm going to simply quote 2 comments I made elsewhere. Some parts may not apply here. Please ignore those parts.



> I see the Muslim-Hate brigade is in full force, from the moment the bastard shooters name was released, and continues, despite conflicting reports from all sources. I'll refrain from condemning the religion until the real facts come out. As to the shooter, I hope he gets his just deserved rewards....a short drop and sudden stop.





> I think this guys a piece of ****. He broke his oath to his country, to his fellow soldiers, and to the patients under his care. That is where my anger comes from. I highly doubt he was al-qeieda. I see conflicting reports he was a life long Muslim, a recent convert, they don't know, non-religious, etc. But I also find myself angry at the usually smart people I see jumping to conclusions who started flooding the "anti-Muslim" crap as soon as this started, in some cases before any facts had even emerged. The bigotry is blatant here.
> 
> I don't care that he may/may not have been Muslim.
> 
> ...



I'm not going to get into the Muslim-bashing I'm seeing happen elsewhere. I don't care.

I care about what I underlined above. That seem the more important part right now.

If this turns out to be a terrorist plot, be it organized or random, I trust those in position to do something to do something to make it harder for the next piece of **** to get in and do worse.  I have too many friends and associates in uniform, and only wish to see them home again safe. That to me is most important.

I await more facts on this, in the mean time I and many others just wait.


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## Bob Hubbard (Nov 6, 2009)

Latest news from the local area.
http://twitter.com/kdhnews and http://www.kdhnews.com/

(Thanks to Jen on FB for the links)

Death toll now 13.  27 still hospitalized.


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## Bob Hubbard (Nov 6, 2009)

*For those still trying to find out about their family members who may have been on post when tragedy struck yesterday, Fort Hood has set up a hotline for relatives of Fort Hood personnel, who may call (254) 288-7570 or (866) 836-2751 for information about loved ones.*


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## sfs982000 (Nov 6, 2009)

Bob Hubbard said:


> How long to make Major?


 
It depends, in the Medical side of the military a doctor could come right off the street as a Capt and potentially make Maj a few years later.


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## d1jinx (Nov 6, 2009)

Stac3y said:


> He had been harrassed for being Muslim, and had tried to get out of his contract early as a result, but his attorney said even if he paid back his tuition, he would not be released. The stuff about comparing suicide bombers to GIs falling on grenades has not been confirmed to be written by him. His cousin said he was desperately trying to avoid being deployed because he had heard so much horrible stuff from returning soldiers. (from an article on MSNBC, and the press conference from Cone last night--carried live on our local news station.)
> 
> As yet, I don't have enough information to form an opinion as to whether he did this from some political or religious motivation, or whether he just lost his mind. Either way, it's a terrible tragedy.


 
*Im not buying it.*  He used it as an excuse to try and get out of the ARMY.  he was a Major.  No one is going to harras a Major.  He could easily deal with any harrasment issues.  Maybe if he was Private Huessain, but not at a Officers level.  Anyone who has served in the military knows what i am talking about.  Can you see yourself harrassing you commanding officer, the flight doc, or even the LT?  well, maybe the LT a little depending on your rank.....  but not a race or religion harrassment.... they would deal with that immediatley.


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## sfs982000 (Nov 6, 2009)

d1jinx said:


> *Im not buying it.* He used it as an excuse to try and get out of the ARMY. he was a Major. No one is going to harras a Major. He could easily deal with any harrasment issues. Maybe if he was Private Huessain, but not at a Officers level. Anyone who has served in the military knows what i am talking about. Can you see yourself harrassing you commanding officer, the flight doc, or even the LT? well, maybe the LT a little depending on your rank..... but not a race or religion harrassment.... they would deal with that immediatley.


 
Exactly! Well put.


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## MBuzzy (Nov 6, 2009)

d1jinx said:


> *Im not buying it.* He used it as an excuse to try and get out of the ARMY. he was a Major. No one is going to harras a Major. He could easily deal with any harrasment issues. Maybe if he was Private Huessain, but not at a Officers level. Anyone who has served in the military knows what i am talking about. Can you see yourself harrassing you commanding officer, the flight doc, or even the LT? well, maybe the LT a little depending on your rank..... but not a race or religion harrassment.... they would deal with that immediatley.


 
Yeah, I'm with you here, even as a Capt, there aren't a whole lot of people who even CAN harrass me, let alone actually do.  Most of the time, even other CGO's (Company Grade Officers; 2LT, 1LT, Capt) are respectful and use sirs, ranks, etc until you know the person.  

I'm sorry, but if you're a Major, in the Army, you know what you got into.  You know the deployment tempo, you know that you have to go, and you know better than to listen to every private coming back from the field.  The guy was just a nut job.  

We take any kind of discrimination or harrassment VERY VERY seriously.  Prosecutions are quick and investigations are thorough.


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## Bob Hubbard (Nov 6, 2009)

*Partial List.

Killed*

Pfc. Michael Pearson, 21, of Bolingbrook, Illinois
Russell Seager, 51 of Racine, Wisconsin
Amy Krueger, 29 of Kiel, Wisconsin
Franceska Valez, 21, was killed. She had just returned from Afghanistan due to pregnancy.

*Wounded*

Amber Bahr, 19 of Random Lake, Wisconsin
Cpl. Nathan A. Hewitt, 27, of Lafayette, Indiana
Reservist Keara Bono, 21
Army Reserve Spc. Grant Moxon, 23 of Lodi Wisconsin
Amber Bahr, 19 of Random Lake, Wisconsin
Ray Saucedo, wounded, from Greenville (Grand Rapids area), Michigan.
Keara Bono, wounded, Twin Cities/Kansas City.
Joy Clark, wounded, Des Moines, Iowa.
Nathan Hewitt, wounded, Lafayette, Indiana.


Officer Kimberly Munley
Munley, 34, was wounded in the exchange with the alleged gunman, Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan. Authorities said she shot Hasan four times. She is being treated for her wounds.


Sources:
CNN.com
http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local-beat/Midwests-Fort-Hood-Casualties-69376622.html
http://www.wkowtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=11458413


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## Tez3 (Nov 6, 2009)

Your army is similiar enough to ours that if he hadn't wanted to be deployed there are ways to get out, even if he had to literally shoot himself in the foot.
We've had a lot of the American reports as well as ours and all have been going on about secuirty not being what it should, that's BS honestly. I'm betting anything the security would have been very good exactly where it was needed to safeguard from outsiders, no one would dream or could conceive, frankly, that the enemy is a colleague and fellow soldier. It's probably the ultimate betrayal.
 I hope that the Afghan incident with our lads didn't put the idea into his head because that is just twisted. I've been at work all day and everyone has been shocked by this,shaking their heads unable to believe as soldiers how a soldier could do this. The last place you think you have to watch your back is with your own.
It's our Remembrance Sunday this weekend, I for one will be thinking about these soldiers and their families as well as all our fallen comrades and allies.


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## Stac3y (Nov 6, 2009)

d1jinx said:


> *Im not buying it.* He used it as an excuse to try and get out of the ARMY. he was a Major. No one is going to harras a Major. He could easily deal with any harrasment issues. Maybe if he was Private Huessain, but not at a Officers level. Anyone who has served in the military knows what i am talking about. Can you see yourself harrassing you commanding officer, the flight doc, or even the LT? well, maybe the LT a little depending on your rank..... but not a race or religion harrassment.... they would deal with that immediatley.


 
Not having been in the military (though the Selective Service was convinced I was male at one point), I wouldn't know. What I do know is that Major is not the highest rank, and that harrassment can be anonymous. Also thinking one is being persecuted is a very common feature of various mental illnesses. I was not stating any sort of opinion when I posted; just repeating snippets of what I had heard. It may be that the guy was a terrorist, or it may be that he was mentally ill, or it may be both.


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## CoryKS (Nov 6, 2009)

Stac3y said:


> Not having been in the military (though the Selective Service was convinced I was male at one point), I wouldn't know. What I do know is that Major is not the highest rank, and that harrassment can be anonymous. Also thinking one is being persecuted is a very common feature of various mental illnesses. I was not stating any sort of opinion when I posted; just repeating snippets of what I had heard. It may be that the guy was a terrorist, or it may be that he was mentally ill, or it may be both.


 
What's interesting is, if you go back and look at the cases that appear to be "sudden jihadi syndrome", every single one of them claims mental illness.  Quite a coinkeydink how all these guys all snap in the same general manner.


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## Stac3y (Nov 6, 2009)

CoryKS said:


> What's interesting is, if you go back and look at the cases that appear to be "sudden jihadi syndrome", every single one of them claims mental illness. Quite a coinkeydink how all these guys all snap in the same general manner.


 
Just because the guy is Muslim doesn't necessarily mean this has any thing to do with jihad--could be the same kind of thing as Columbine, or the guy that just shot a bunch of people in Orlando today, or one of these people who murders his or her whole family. Or not. Seems to me the one thing that stands out is that, whether he did this for a "reason" or not, the guy's as crazy as a jarful of bats.


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## Tez3 (Nov 6, 2009)

Stac3y said:


> Just because the guy is Muslim doesn't necessarily mean this has any thing to do with jihad--could be the same kind of thing as Columbine, or the guy that just shot a bunch of people in Orlando today, or one of these people who murders his or her whole family. Or not. Seems to me the one thing that stands out is that, whether he did this for a "reason" or not, the guy's as crazy as a jarful of bats.


 

I wouldn't be surprised if being a psychiatrist had more to do with this madness than being Muslim. Six years ago we had a military pyschiatric hospital here and we were called to it quite often for various reasons. Quite frankly I was more comfortable with the patients than with some of the staff. One of the psych nurses actually said a third of the staff were on meds themselves, a third had married patients and the other third were just undiagnosed mental patients. She had two of the three, was on meds and had married a patient. We asked why take up psych nursing, she replied that there was no better place to hide a tree than in a forest! Seriously, in our experience psych staff are more than a bit suspect when it comes to being sane  especially if they are military as well.


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## Stac3y (Nov 6, 2009)

Tez3 said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if being a psychiatrist had more to do with this madness than being Muslim. Six years ago we had a military pyschiatric hospital here and we were called to it quite often for various reasons. Quite frankly I was more comfortable with the patients than with some of the staff. One of the psych nurses actually said a third of the staff were on meds themselves, a third had married patients and the other third were just undiagnosed mental patients. She had two of the three, was on meds and had married a patient. We asked why take up psych nursing, she replied that there was no better place to hide a tree than in a forest! Seriously, in our experience psych staff are more than a bit suspect when it comes to being sane especially if they are military as well.


 
I was avoiding saying pretty much the same thing, but now that you've broken the ice...my psychotherapist ex-husband said that working in a mental health profession almost always meant that you were trying to fix someone in your family who was mentally ill, or that you were trying to fix yourself for the same reason. He also said that becoming a therapist is a neurotic defense. And, believe me, HE was crazier than *2* jars full of bats.


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## Tez3 (Nov 6, 2009)

Stac3y said:


> I was avoiding saying pretty much the same thing, but now that you've broken the ice...my psychotherapist ex-husband said that working in a mental health profession almost always meant that you were trying to fix someone in your family who was mentally ill, or that you were trying to fix yourself for the same reason. He also said that becoming a therapist is a neurotic defense. And, believe me, HE was crazier than *2* jars full of bats.


 

It makes it even more of a betrayal really that this man wasn't only a fellow soldier and a comrade but soldiers were looking to him to help and support them. He was a doctor, a healer above all...... 'Primum non nocere'.  It's unforgiveable.


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## Bob Hubbard (Nov 6, 2009)

*Partial List.

13 Killed*


Pfc. Michael Pearson, 21, of Bolingbrook, Illinois
Russell Seager, 51 of Racine, Wisconsin
Sgt. Amy Krueger, 29 of Kiel, Wisconsin
Franceska Valez, 21, Chicago, Illinois . She had just returned from Afghanistan due to pregnancy. She was 3 months pregnant.
Pfc. Aaron Thomas Nemelka, 19, of West Jordan, Utah
Spc. Jason Dean Hunt, 22, of Frederick, Okla
Spc. Kham Xiong, 23, of St. Paul, Minn
Juanita Warman, 55, was a military physician assistant
Mike Cahill, 62, Cameron TX - civilian physician&#8217;s assistant
 
*30 Wounded*


Amber Bahr, 19 of Random Lake, Wisconsin
Cpl. Nathan A. Hewitt, 27, of Lafayette, Indiana
Reservist Keara Bono, 21
Army Reserve Spc. Grant Moxon, 23 of Lodi Wisconsin
Ray Saucedo, wounded, from Greenville (Grand Rapids area), Michigan.
Keara Bono, wounded, Twin Cities/Kansas City.
Joy Clark, wounded, Des Moines, Iowa.
Nathan Hewitt, wounded, Lafayette, Indiana.
Alan Carroll, New Jersey
Matthew Cooke, New York
Joey Foster, Utah
Justin Johnson, Florida
Staff Sgt. Alonzo Lunsford, North Carolina
2nd Lt. Brandy Mason
Maj. Randy Royer, Alabama
George Stratton, Idaho
 

*Fort Hood Police Sgt. *Kimberly Munley - Wounded
Munley, 34, was wounded in the exchange with the alleged gunman, Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan. Authorities said she shot Hasan four times. She is being treated for her wounds.
Fort Hood Commander Lt. Gen. Bob Cone said Friday that Fort Hood police Sgt. Kimberly Munley and her partner responded within three minutes of reported gunfire Thursday afternoon. Cone said Munley shot the gunman four times despite being shot herself. Officials said Munley was in stable condition. Cone said, "It was an amazing and an aggressive performance by this police officer." Cone also said he was inspired by a woman who helped carry a wounded victim and used her blouse as a tourniquet, then later realized she'd been shot in the hip.

Sources:
CNN.com
http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local-beat/Midwests-Fort-Hood-Casualties-69376622.html
http://www.wkowtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=11458413
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,572726,00.html
http://www.kwtx.com/localnews/headlines/69396362.html


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## Archangel M (Nov 6, 2009)

I find it ironic that he was finally taken down by a female police officer. I hope that irony is not lost on the fundamentalists who are probably celebrating this event.

She did exactly what a cop should do in that situation and did it well. She's a hero.


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## granfire (Nov 6, 2009)

> Pfc. Aaron Thomas Nemelka, 19, of West Jordan, Utah


how ironic.

I usually can project myself pretty well into another person's situation, but situations like these are just incomprehensable.

The more we learn the less clear everything becomes.

Of course, there are always individuals who rock the boat and then claim abuse...

Godspeed to all, and prayers to the surviors and families.


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## Tez3 (Nov 7, 2009)

After the first shock of the horror goes off how often we hear of the stories of bravery and heroism that took place and how much it makes us realise that for every evil act there are hundreds, thousands, of good people who will place their fellow humans before themselves and do the right thing.
Through the tears you have to smile with pride.


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## shihansmurf (Nov 7, 2009)

It is nearly impossible for me to comment on this in a way that wont get me banned from martialtalk, and as I've grown rather fond of this place, I'll confine my remarks to the following:

1. As a soldier, I can't fathom the idea of killing one of my comrades. The horrific vileness of the act is a betrayal of all of the ideals and values that we, as warriors, are supposed to embody. This piece of filth is a disgrace to the two hundred years of tradition, honor, service, and brotherhood that our uniforms stands for. 

2. The fallen are murder and attempted murder victims and the disgusting worm that opened fire on them is a murderer. He should be tried and punished to the fullest extent under the UCMJ.

Mark


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## shihansmurf (Nov 7, 2009)

MBuzzy said:


> Yeah, I'm with you here, even as a Capt, there aren't a whole lot of people who even CAN harrass me, let alone actually do. Most of the time, even other CGO's (Company Grade Officers; 2LT, 1LT, Capt) are respectful and use sirs, ranks, etc until you know the person.
> 
> I'm sorry, but if you're a Major, in the Army, you know what you got into. You know the deployment tempo, you know that you have to go, and you know better than to listen to every private coming back from the field. The guy was just a nut job.
> 
> We take any kind of discrimination or harrassment VERY VERY seriously. Prosecutions are quick and investigations are thorough.


 
Very, very true.

To expand. I am a Promotable Staff Sergeant in the Army (E6-P) and anyone attempting that to someone at my rank would have to have a lot on their collar to get away with it, let alone a major. Not only on account of rank, but the genral policies on EO. Those sorts of violations are carrer enders.

I don't get the idea of someone that joins up in the current operating environment and expects not to deploy. We've been at war for 8 years now, so it isn't like its a surprise. I guess the Army was good enough to pay for his education but when the time came to do his duty, well...

Mark


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## shihansmurf (Nov 7, 2009)

Carol Kaur said:


> In addition, soldiers are not issued the carry permits that a private citizen may apply for. In addition, while in uniform and/or on (non-combat) duty, a soldier generally cannot carry a personal weapon.
> 
> The soldiers had no way of fighting back. What a dispicable, cowardly act.


 
We are able to get conceal carry permits. I have one. We just are not able to carry on post, which is a shame as this sort of this wouldn't have reached the numbers that it did if more soldiers had been armed.Some states are a bit restrictive about issuing to soldiers based on the soldiers actual state of residency, but there is no blanket prohibition in any state that issues such permits that I have been stationed.

Just wanted to clarify.

Mark


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## Tez3 (Nov 7, 2009)

shihansmurf said:


> It is nearly impossible for me to comment on this in a way that wont get me banned from martialtalk, and as I've grown rather fond of this place, I'll confine my remarks to the following:
> 
> 1. As a soldier, I can't fathom the idea of killing one of my comrades. The horrific vileness of the act is a betrayal of all of the ideals and values that we, as warriors, are supposed to embody. This piece of filth is a disgrace to the two hundred years of tradition, honor, service, and brotherhood that our uniforms stands for.
> 
> ...


 
Mark, you have said it all and there's no one will disagree with you. The comments from our soldiers I heard yesterday are all unrepeatable for reasons you'll understand, British squaddies language is colourful and very descriptive but not suitable here. I doubt it's nothing that hasn't however been said by their American comrades in arms. 
There's no honour only evil in a medic gunning down unarmed comrades.
The body count may well have been lower if others had carried weapons but that would mean a basic lack of trust in a place where trust is sacred, if you can't trust fellow soldiers there is no hope.


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## Bob Hubbard (Nov 7, 2009)

*List of dead and partial list of wounded.

13 Killed*


Pfc. Michael Pearson, 21, of Bolingbrook, Illinois
Russell Seager, 51 of Racine, Wisconsin
Sgt. Amy Krueger, 29 of Kiel, Wisconsin
Franceska Valez, 21, Chicago, Illinois . She had just returned from Afghanistan due to pregnancy. She was 3 months pregnant.
Pfc. Aaron Thomas Nemelka, 19, of West Jordan, Utah
Spc. Jason Dean Hunt, 22, of Frederick, Okla
Spc. Kham Xiong, 23, of St. Paul, Minn
Juanita Warman, 55, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania - military physician assistant
Mike Cahill, 62, Cameron TX - civilian physicians assistant
*Capt. John Gaffaney, 56, *Williston, N.D - psychiatric nurse
*Staff Sgt. Justin M. DeCrow, 32, * Plymouth, Ind
*Major L. Eduardo Caraveo, 52, *Ciudad Juarez, Mexico / Arizona
 
*30 Wounded*


Amber Bahr, 19 of Random Lake, Wisconsin
Cpl. Nathan A. Hewitt, 27, of Lafayette, Indiana
Reservist Keara Bono, 21
Army Reserve Spc. Grant Moxon, 23 of Lodi Wisconsin
Ray Saucedo, wounded, from Greenville (Grand Rapids area), Michigan.
Keara Bono, wounded, Twin Cities/Kansas City.
Joy Clark, wounded, Des Moines, Iowa.
Nathan Hewitt, wounded, Lafayette, Indiana.
Alan Carroll, New Jersey
Matthew Cooke, New York
Joey Foster, Utah
Justin Johnson, Florida
Staff Sgt. Alonzo Lunsford, North Carolina
2nd Lt. Brandy Mason
Maj. Randy Royer, Alabama
George Stratton, Idaho
 

*Fort Hood Police Sgt. *Kimberly Munley - Wounded
Munley, 34, was wounded in the exchange with the alleged gunman, Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan. Authorities said she shot Hasan four times. She is being treated for her wounds.
Fort Hood Commander Lt. Gen. Bob Cone said Friday that Fort Hood police Sgt. Kimberly Munley and her partner responded within three minutes of reported gunfire Thursday afternoon. Cone said Munley shot the gunman four times despite being shot herself. Officials said Munley was in stable condition. Cone said, "It was an amazing and an aggressive performance by this police officer." Cone also said he was inspired by a woman who helped carry a wounded victim and used her blouse as a tourniquet, then later realized she'd been shot in the hip.

Sources:
CNN.com
http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local-beat/Midwests-Fort-Hood-Casualties-69376622.html
http://www.wkowtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=11458413
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,572726,00.html
http://www.kwtx.com/localnews/headlines/69396362.html
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,572726,00.html


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## Rich Parsons (Nov 8, 2009)

Another article about officer Munley:  http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/08599193644400



> Sgt. Kimberly Munley, 34, a civilian Department of Defense police officer at the base, is credited with stopping the firing rampage


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## arnisador (Nov 12, 2009)

*Hasan to Face Death Penalty *

*Military Court to Try Major in Fort Hood Massacre; Inquiry Into Missed Warning Signs*



> Military prosecutors plan to seek the death penalty for alleged Fort Hood shooter Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan, who was formally charged Thursday with 13 counts of premeditated murder, according to a senior Army officer familiar with the matter.


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