# Self Study Strategy & Resources



## Argus (Jul 19, 2012)

_Greetings everyone!_​ I am interested in Wing Chun, and setting out to learn it through self-study, research, and practice. I am sure that the words "self-study" raise a red flag among many practitioners of traditional martial arts, and I'm likely to receive the (usually sound) advice that one cannot learn martial arts without a qualified instructor. Unfortunately, there do not appear to be any practitioners, much less good instructors, of Wing Chun in my area (Mobile, AL), but I believe that with the right amount of study, research, attention to detail, and practice, and a resource such as this where I can ask questions and seek advice, that it is possible to learn on one's own.


_My Experience, and Philosophy on Learning._​ I'm quite used to studying and learning on my own, and I believe that I have gained very valuable experience in doing so. As such, I would like to introduce my past experience in learning things on my own, and perhaps get advice on how I can best apply this philosophy in pursuit of learning Wing Chun. 


_Learning Japanese_​The most immediate and applicable experience I can think of to relate to studying martial arts is my experience in learning Japanese. The process of learning martial arts seems quite similar to that of learning a language; there are forms which equate to grammar and structure, techniques, movements, or ideas which equate to letters of the alphabet, or words, and there is practice and drill (for example, Chi Sau) in which we learn to string these words together into sentences. And as we might equate forms to be the practice of learning to write an alphabet, or words, we might equate the idea of precision and correct practice of those forms to practicing good pronunciation in speech, or proper stroke-order in learning to write Chinese characters. And finally, in time, and with enough practice, everything that you learn and drill must become second nature to you, and instictive. You will never be able to fluently speak a foreign language - it must be familiar to the point that it is no longer "foreign", and you are no longer thinking first in your native language, and then trying to translate those thoughts into your target language - the thoughts must flow out automatically in the target language. In the same way, I can imagine that to use martial arts in application, you must practice until they are instinctive, and flow out automatically.

I have been learning Japanese for about six years now, and have reached a respectable degree of fluency and literacy despite not living in Japan, and not attending classes or having a teacher. Learning has involved three processes; research/study, practice, and application.

1. Research and study is where I spent most of my time in the beginning. I found as many learning resources as I could: text books, dictionaries, forums, grammar guides, flash cards, etc., and learned as much as I could in regards to theory - basically, "what everything is", and "how everything should be."

2. The next process is practice. This involves forming good habits, and solidifying the concepts that you study in theory. You have to be aware of exactly what habits you are forming, and pay attention to detail so that you form good habits and not bad ones. In learning Japanese, I used any number of resources to practice. This can be anything from hand writing - practicing stroke order and balance, to practicing pronunciation - listening closely to native speakers, and imitating their pronunciation, to more passive practice such as reading and listening, or testing yourself with flashcards to solidify your memory of what you've already studied.

3. The last process is application, which kind of ties into "practice," but might better be described as "experience," and I believe is the most important. In terms of learning a language, this means actually using the language in the real world. Hold a conversation with a native speaker. Find a pen-pal. Read your Japanese friends' blogs. Write your own blog. Watch movies. Read books. Do internet searches in Japanese on subjects you're interested in. All of this sort of real-world experience is the most important part of making what you learn functional, and coming to really understand and be comfortable with it.



_Learning Wing Chun_​On the first point, I believe that with proper learning materials and resources, and hopefully with a good community such as this, I can acquire enough knowledge and understanding to make sure I know what I am practicing, and how to practice properly. On this note, I would like to ask for everyone's advice on good learning materials for Wing Chun. I will go ahead and list the little that I have collected so far:
1. Beginning Wing Chun (Book)
2. Seminars by David Peterson on Siu Nim Tao, Chum Kiu, & Muk Yan Jong (Video)
3. Some old videos I found online by (/of) Moy Yat on various forms and drills, which appear to originally have been on VHS.
4. Another old video, originally VHS, which I found online, called "Basics of Wing Chun," by Duncan Leung.
5. These forums.
Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be many good free resources on Wing Chun. If anyone knows of good additional learning resources, free or not, and whether websites, books, or videos, I would much appreciate some good recommendations. I am interested in any credible, more traditional forms of Wing Chun that follow the lineage of Leung Jan / Ip Man. I don't know much of the different styles and lineages to be honest, but I'd like to steer clear of the more controversial and "out there" ones, such as William Cheung's "Traditional Wing Chun."

On the second point - that of practice, will be a little bit more challenging. I believe that I can learn the forms on my own, as I have a pretty good habit of paying attention to form and detail. However, since I am learning on my own, practicing all of the drills in which I need a partner might be difficult. I have a few good friends who I can probably practice with sometimes, but I can definitely see a disadvantage to not having an instructor, or any proficient students to practice with. If anyone has any ideas, or advice here, please let me know.

The last part - that of application, seems as if it would be difficult even with a class and an instructor. Where as language is something that is easy to practice and apply in real life, martial arts is not so much, for obvious reasons. Again, I would like to hear everyone's advice on this point. How do you practice the application of Wing Chun, and what constitutes good practice or sparring, as opposed to the bad? I should note here that this is a hobby for me, and I don't really intend to become very proficient in fighting. However, at the same time, I would like to at least learn to apply the basics in self-defense, as this is the entire point of the art to begin with, and may be good to know some day.

So, that basically sums up my thoughts on learning, and how I hope to go about learning the basics of Wing Chun. I'm sure many of you have some very good advice and experience in regards to learning, so I would like to just put these questions out there:
1. What should my goals be?
2. What are some good resources I can use for self study?
3. How should I go about these three processes of learning? (study, practice, application)
4. I very seriously doubt there are any Wing Chun practitioners in my area, but if there are, how can I go about finding them? Does anyone know of someone in my area?
5. What should I consider when getting other people, whom I can practice with, involved, without it turning into a case of "the blind leading the blind?" - while I might be able to research and study the basics on my own, I don't think I would qualify to teach them.

I'll likely be asking all kinds of more specific questions about basic things which one would normally ask a teacher, but each of those is another thread and another time. For now, I appreciate any guidance and advice on these general issues.


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## Cyriacus (Jul 19, 2012)

1: Fitness.
2: A Gym.
3: Study all You want, Practice only the simplest most basic things, and Application requires either proper training or a partner. This is where already being trained in anything would come in handy.
4: If there arent, why not train something else, and keep Wing Chun in Your mind, so that when You do learn it, You will have already gotten used to teaching Your body to move in ways it isnt used to?
5: It would turn into a case of blind leading blind, because often practice is enhanced by practising with people more experienced than Yourself, thusly enhancing Your abilities more towards Theirs.

The problem is that Wing Chun is a bit more complicated than, say, Boxing. And even that isnt easy to self-teach.

Which leads Me to another option:
Get in shape;
And see if there are any seminars in the near future within a couple of hours drive/train ride from You.


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## WC_lun (Jul 19, 2012)

I do not care how smart you are, or how good at learning by yourself, Wing Chun takes tactile input to learn properly.  You must experience it.  Unfortunately, you cannot experience it unless you drill with someone who knows it and someone who knows it well enough to give you the input (physical and verbal) you need at the level you need.  For example, chi sao.  There is no possible way to train chi sao without a competant training partner, because it is based upon feeling the other person through contact. so much of Wing Chun is the same way. I am not trying to be harsh, that is just the way it is.  If you are unable to find a Wing Chun school nearby, then train in something else.  At least then you will have a base in something so when you are able to train in a Wing Chun school you will have some martial experience.

Good luck with your training.  I hope you are able to find a good Wing Chun school to train in!


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## mograph (Jul 19, 2012)

Argus said:


> ... I'm likely to receive the (usually sound) advice that one cannot learn martial arts without a qualified instructor ... but I believe that with the right amount of study, research, attention to detail, and practice, and a resource such as this where I can ask questions and seek advice, that it is possible to learn on one's own.


So this advice does not apply to you? 

(I once had a friend who thought she could learn anything in the world from a book. So she bought a golf book, studied it, then headed out on the links. After a few holes, her opinion of the game of golf was that it was useless and a waste of time. Her language was more colorful.)

Without _a good teacher,_ _partners_ _who are better than you_, and _actual physical contact_, you will only learn an _imitation_ of Wing Chun. You will not have had the benefits of feedback on your performance from someone who is in the room with you, someone who can touch you, someone whom you can touch. 

With all due respect, Argus, your project is doomed for one simple reason: you value your head more than your body. This has served you well in academic pursuits, but will not serve you well here. Until you relieve yourself of this bias, you will not learn a physical art to a worthwhile degree. :asian:


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## Argus (Jul 19, 2012)

I do not for a moment presume that I can learn everything from books or videos. However, I do believe that I can get an understanding first, and then learn to apply those ideas in practice. I'm well aware that there is often a large gap between theory and practice, and that someone with experience helps immensely in bridging that gap. However, I don't subscribe to the idea that it is impossible to discover for yourself in practice.

The approach that I was really trying to get at, is that of being a student. Learn the theory, then try it out in practice, until the theory and practice are adjoined through experience and experimentation. With the right (humble) attitude, you should be able to discover in practice the application of any theory. 

My friend, who is also interested, has many years of experience in Tae Kwon Do. I am thinking that together, and with this kind of philosophy, we can practice, experiment, and discover what Wing Chun is about. The key, I think, is having the right attitude and outlook - if you're practicing for the purpose of learning, you should be able to learn from one another. If something doesn't work, you know that you are doing it wrong. If something does work, you know that the other person isn't doing it right. So, when you get in, or your partner gets in, you stop and consider why and how, and what you could have done differently. Maybe my elbow wasn't tucked in enough, or my arm was rotated too far outwards, or I was aiming too high with my attack, or I was resisting my opponents pressure too rigidly. Is this not how the original creators of the system, and those who added on to it learned and perfected it? And while they likely knew more about martial arts than I ever will, should I not be able to at least learn the basics in the same way?

Again, I'm not expecting to get too advanced. But I imagine that we can get the forms down well, and get the basic idea of Chi Sau as long as we take it slow, pay attention to what we're doing, and experiment. I'm not expecting to, without any cooking experience at all, read a recipe, and expect to replicate it perfectly. I'll likely have to try quite a few times to get it right, but each time I do, I should be learning something.

So how about some more positive advice? One of the most useful skills will be understanding whether we are doing something right, or wrong; and surely as with anything, there are ways to tell if you know what to look for; what you should feel, and what should happen. With ample explanation of what should happen, there is no reason that even without physical example, we cannot make those discoveries on our own. Won't this approach have merit?


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## Cyriacus (Jul 19, 2012)

Ok.



Argus said:


> I do not for a moment presume that I can learn everything from books or videos. However, I do believe that I can get an understanding first, and then learn to apply those ideas in practice. I'm well aware that there is often a large gap between theory and practice, and that someone with experience helps immensely in bridging that gap. However, I don't subscribe to the idea that it is impossible to discover for yourself in practice.



If Youd trained for a while, in an actual outlet, Youd know its not that simple.



> The approach that I was really trying to get at, is that of being a student. Learn the theory, then try it out in practice, until the theory and practice are adjoined through experience and experimentation. With the right (humble) attitude, you should be able to discover in practice the application of any theory.



Isnt that simple.



> My friend, who is also interested, has many years of experience in Tae Kwon Do. I am thinking that together, and with this kind of philosophy, we can practice, experiment, and discover what Wing Chun is about. The key, I think, is having the right attitude and outlook - if you're practicing for the purpose of learning, you should be able to learn from one another. If something doesn't work, you know that you are doing it wrong. If something does work, you know that the other person isn't doing it right. So, when you get in, or your partner gets in, you stop and consider why and how, and what you could have done differently. Maybe my elbow wasn't tucked in enough, or my arm was rotated too far outwards, or I was aiming too high with my attack, or I was resisting my opponents pressure too rigidly. Is this not how the original creators of the system, and those who added on to it learned and perfected it? And while they likely knew more about martial arts than I ever will, should I not be able to at least learn the basics in the same way?



Basics can take years to learn fully from a qualified instructor, let alone any other way. Properly, that is. Basics are everything - Not just the first things You learn. When I said stick to the most basic, I mean, Wing Chun uses a vertical fist. And it punches in a straight line to the center. At best, You might get the hang of that.



> Again, I'm not expecting to get too advanced. But I imagine that we can get the forms down well, and get the basic idea of Chi Sau as long as we take it slow, pay attention to what we're doing, and experiment. I'm not expecting to, without any cooking experience at all, read a recipe, and expect to replicate it perfectly. I'll likely have to try quite a few times to get it right, but each time I do, I should be learning something.



Chi Sau is not that simple.



> So how about some more positive advice?



So basically, 'Praise what I want to do and dont break it down due to all the problems with it, be positive?"
If You ask for opinions or advise, You cant just expect to get people helping You work towards what would probably be counterproductive if You ever actually went to learn Wing Chun.



> One of the most useful skills will be understanding whether we are doing something right, or wrong; and surely as with anything, there are ways to tell if you know what to look for; what you should feel, and what should happen. With ample explanation of what should happen, there is no reason that even without physical example, we cannot make those discoveries on our own. Won't this approach have merit?



No.

Self teaching requires either a strong base, or a natural talent. And a natural talent amounts to doing Your own thing - And not so much a codified system.


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## Argus (Jul 19, 2012)

>Cyriacus

When I ask you to be more positive, I mean that I am looking to learn, rather than to be shot down here. If you think something won't work, don't just say that, tell me in detail why it won't work, or would be difficult, and perhaps we can make some progress (either in convincing me to give up, or giving me something to work from and be aware of). If nothing else, offer some reading material and advise that I just become an arm-chair Wing Chunner for the time being.

You believe that at best, I could learn to do a vertical punch and nothing else. That's a rather strong assertion that I assume is meant to open my eyes. Now, explain to me why you believe this. Failing that, that kind of assertion just sounds rather rude and arrogant, and doesn't do much to enlighten me.


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## mook jong man (Jul 19, 2012)

I'll give you some positive advice.

I'm positive that you can't learn Wing Chun without hands on training from a qualified instructor.

That's all I'm going to say on the matter , we have been down this track before with people who also thought that they were "special" and could learn such a sophisticated martial system as Wing Chun from books and DVDs.

If I'm standing right in front of somebody and actually physically putting their arms in the correct positions and they still can't get it right , what makes you think that your so bloody great that you can get it right without a live instructor correcting you.

It's fantasy stuff.


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## Cyriacus (Jul 19, 2012)

Argus said:


> >Cyriacus
> 
> When I ask you to be more positive, I mean that I am looking to learn, rather than to be shot down here. If you think something won't work, don't just say that, tell me in detail why it won't work, or would be difficult, and perhaps we can make some progress (either in convincing me to give up, or giving me something to work from and be aware of). If nothing else, offer some reading material and advise that I just become an arm-chair Wing Chunner for the time being.
> 
> You believe that at best, I could learn to do a vertical punch and nothing else. That's a rather strong assertion that I assume is meant to open my eyes. Now, explain to me why you believe this. Failing that, that kind of assertion just sounds rather rude and arrogant, and doesn't do much to enlighten me.


We have been explaining it.
If Youd undergone training, You wouldnt even be questioning it, because Youd already know.
If its rude and arrogant, so be it. But if You can find Me one single example of someone with zero prior experience becoming half way decent at any given Martial Art, Ill be impressed.

Its being shot down because it doesnt work. And if You wont accept that, nothing I say will change Your mind. Its obvious You want to do this, but dont want anyone to belittle it.

Wing Chun is not a simple system to learn. It is simple in its nature, but very intricate. And there are so many important little details that can only be seen by an experienced eye.
The same goes for any given system.
It isnt even a strong assertion that I made - Its one that is supported simply by the fact that punching with a vertical fist towards the center isnt overly complicated. But even then, doing it properly is something that requires hours upon hours of correction. People struggle enough to learn with a qualified instructor - Its imitation at best without one.
Chi Sau is not just rubbing forearms then doing attacks - And how do You plan on practising Wing Chun with someone else equally unskilled in Wing Chun? Your trained friend has enough of a base to use different versions of what He already knows, but that goes without saying when thats quite a few things. 

And if its so easy to tell right from wrong, I guess theres no need for people with a decade or so of experience to exist, to correct problems in a given system. You can just read about it, or watch a video, and the observer becomes redundant.

If You want to be enlightened, listen to Us instead of waiting for an answer Youll find more appealing.



mograph said:


> So this advice does not apply to you?
> 
> (I once had a friend who thought she could learn anything in the world from a book. So she bought a golf book, studied it, then headed out on the links. After a few holes, her opinion of the game of golf was that it was useless and a waste of time. Her language was more colorful.)
> 
> ...





WC_lun said:


> I do not care how smart you are, or how good at learning by yourself, Wing Chun takes tactile input to learn properly. You must experience it. Unfortunately, you cannot experience it unless you drill with someone who knows it and someone who knows it well enough to give you the input (physical and verbal) you need at the level you need. For example, chi sao. There is no possible way to train chi sao without a competant training partner, because it is based upon feeling the other person through contact. so much of Wing Chun is the same way. I am not trying to be harsh, that is just the way it is. If you are unable to find a Wing Chun school nearby, then train in something else. At least then you will have a base in something so when you are able to train in a Wing Chun school you will have some martial experience.
> 
> Good luck with your training. I hope you are able to find a good Wing Chun school to train in!



Because it isnt just Me saying all this.

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?99678-Why-so-nasty&highlight=learning+from+book
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/sh...g-Help&highlight=learn+martial+arts+from+book
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/sh...Expert&highlight=learn+martial+arts+from+book
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/sh...videos&highlight=learn+martial+arts+from+book
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/sh...y-tips&highlight=learn+martial+arts+from+book
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/sh...essary&highlight=learn+martial+arts+from+book
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/sh...urself&highlight=learn+martial+arts+from+book
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/sh...cation&highlight=learn+martial+arts+from+book
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/sh...-books&highlight=learn+martial+arts+from+book

You can find more to read if You want. Ive made My point.
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/search.php?searchid=305209&pp=&page=5
Your mentality and desire doesnt change the fact that it is ineffective, save for a few simple principles. Anyone can learn to pick up Their knee and front kick - But if theres noone there to tell You its raising too far, or isnt deep enough, or that Youre chambering too much, Youll really never notice. It takes an experienced eye.



mook jong man said:


> I'll give you some positive advice.
> 
> I'm positive that you can't learn Wing Chun without hands on training from a qualified instructor.
> 
> ...



How many of Us have to tell You, and how much do You have to be told?


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## ballen0351 (Jul 20, 2012)

Go for it if you want to try it why do you care what anyone here thinks?   Buy the DVDs buy a black belt and there you go.  You already knew before you even asked what we would say yet you still asked and are still determined to do it so go do it.  Study on your own and call yourself a master nobody here can stop you so why bother asking?

I will also say it took me two seconds to Google mobile AL and wing chun and I found several schools so if you can't even teach yourself to Google the word I'm not sure how you plan to find a book or DVD on the subject


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## Argus (Jul 20, 2012)

ballen0351, your comment is entirely rude and unwelcomed. If you actually found something, for goodness' sake post a link. But check that you're actually getting a correct result; when I searched, I got plenty of results, but they either weren't anywhere near Mobile, or didn't actually offer Wing Chun. If you're just going to ridicule me and spout nonsense, go elsewhere.

I want to make it very clear to all of you here, excluding ballen, that I value and appreciate your input and advice. I'm going to try to make three points very clear now.

1. I am dabbling in Wing Chun here. I do not expect to be able to Wing Chun entirely on my own, but would like to learn what I can about it.
2. I would like to network and find someone who has experience with Wing Chun in my area, if I cannot find a school.
3. Until then, I would like to learn what I can, and do something with my friend, even if it is just practicing Siu Nim Tao and single hand Chi Sao. Or hell, sitting on the horse and just learning to punch vertically, if anyone would care to give me guidance on how I could practice this correctly. I want to familiarize myself with the concepts of Wing Chun, so if I do find someone to practice with, I will at least have a reference point, and can learn from there - as I'm not likely to find someone who can act as dedicated instructor.

Also, I would appreciate it if we would stop with the comments about me thinking that I'm special. I don't. I'm merely saying that I have had a lot of experience learning on my own, and in giving an example of what has proven effective for me in the past, I was hoping to spark some conversation on how, perhaps, I could apply similar methods to studying Wing Chun.


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## WC_lun (Jul 20, 2012)

The thing is, you cannot do it correctly without an experienced Wing Chun training partner.  Wing Chun is a self contained system.  What you learn first day is tied to what you learn 10 years down the road.  All the training is designed to get correct body alignments and positioning into physical memory, so that when fighting it is automatic, including base concepts and principles, so that the mind is free to attend to other details.  If you are not training correctly, you are not training Wing Chun.  You may have Wing Chuneque techniques, but will be missing everything that makes the system a valid martial art.

Having a friend very advanced in TKD gets you no closer to understanding proper Wing Chun.  The principles and concepts good TKD is based upon is at the opposite end of the striking spectrum from Wing Chun.  What makes a guy a great TKD artist is an anathema to what makes a person a great Wing Chun artist.  That you think you can figure put how Wing Chun works, even somethign like don chi sau just highlights that you do not understand what it takes to learn Wing Chun.

I did a very quick internet search.  Try Liu International Shaolin Institute  251-662-3225, 704 lakeside Dr. Mobile, AL 36693.  I have no idea the quality of the school, but maybe you can get your foot in the door of the CMA community in Mobile to find a place that will suite you.

There are many Wing Chun players on this board who have trained for many years.  We very much want people to take up the art.  However, we know what it takes to learn Wing Chun because we have experienced it.  You do not.  It seems arrogant to me that you ask for advice from Wing Chun people, but then want to dismiss it because you don't like what you've been told.  You mention humility, but are not showing it.


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## Argus (Jul 20, 2012)

Thank you very much, WC_lun. I overlooked that when I searched. The number of different martial arts they teach concerned me at first, but it has 5 very good reviews, so I will definitely check it out. 

I think that I understand what you are saying now. Perhaps I have formed a lot of preconceptions and views in regards to self-study that begin to break down here. I have always found it to be not only possible, but advantageous to study on one's own. Take for example, language classes. Some people are of the strict opinion that one must take language classes, and use a text book, but I have found this to be the worst route; classes are much too slow paced, and text books too artificial and limited in scope to give you a full perspective on something as vast and complicated as a language; much less the experience and practice required to apply it. The only students I have ever met who have achieved any degree of fluency are those who study, practice, and apply the language on their own. The same can be said of the vast majority of my other interests. So, I naturally assume that the case should be the same with martial arts.

I would like to sincerely ask something, though. Why do you, and everyone for that matter, assume that I am dismissing all of your advice because I don't like what I have been told? That really is not my intention. But how am I to judge the advice of people who dismiss my questions entirely? On the internet, the loudest and most adamant are usually the least worth listening to. I haven't seen one reply in which I wasn't judged, ridiculed, or given a sarcastic response, other than perhaps your first post. I don't know anyone here, or who has been training in what for how long. All I have to judge by is how they respond.

At any rate, thank you very much. Regardless of the whole self-study issue, I think I will enjoy much more having experienced people to learn from and practice with if this school turns out to be good.


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## izeqb (Jul 20, 2012)

Argus said:


> I am interested in Wing Chun, and setting out to learn it through self-study, research, and practice.



I know where you're coming from and I understand your way of thinking... 

First, let me say that your wing chun can only get better if you take the time to think about and reflect on it... However... You need to feel the energy. You need to feel the forward pressure, it's not something you can se in a video or read about in a book...

Sorry mate...

Anyway, check out chinaboxers videos on youtube, he does a lot of explaining and have a bunch of videos with drills you can do with a partner:

http://www.youtube.com/user/chinaboxer

Best of luck


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## WingChunIan (Jul 20, 2012)

I agree wholeheartedly with everyone else on here that you can't learn Wing Chun from books, DVDs, youtube etc I know all of the theory of how to play football / soccer (probably more so than many of the top proffessionals in the world) but am a pub level player at best because it is a physical skill that can only be perfected by hours upon hours of actually playing. Wing Chun relies heavilly - more heavilly than most other arts- upon tactile information and development of automatic responses based upon tactile information and that has to be felt and can't be learned. However as you seem determined and want to gain as much information as you can I will try to be of help. Youtube is obviously a good source of video material however there is a lot of rubbish on there, very little instructional material and lots of conflicting views. Use it with caution, but the series reffered to by izeqb is ok, and you will find lots of material on there showing senior practioners such as Ip Chun, Ip Ching, WSL, TST etc. For books and DVDs try Everything Wing Chun, they have an extensive collection by a host of sifus. You would be well advised to get a handle on some basic principles early. Research what you can about 1) centre line theory 2)human anatomy 3) basic geometry 4) basic mechanics / physics 5) physical and mental relaxation it will help your quest to make sense of the Wing Chun world. Good luck but I fear that you are facing an expensive, frustrating and ultimately fruitless journey.


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## mograph (Jul 20, 2012)

Argus, I have also studied many subjects on my own. However, I have also studied enough to know that physical arts require physical sensory inputs to achieve physical learning and therefore physical skill. I have also found that I can only go so far without competent instruction for one main reason: real-time, three-dimensional, tactile feedback.

By only reading words, looking at pictures and watching videos, you are only using your eyes. Your sensory input is only visual and your learning will be visual. Martial arts are not only evaluated on a visual basis, they are evaluated on a tactile basis. Without tactile sensory input and resulting tactile memories, there is no tactile learning. Proprioception isn't enough, sorry.

Now, you can practice all you want, for that will lead to learning, but without a good teacher who is in the room with you, can touch you and whom you can touch, you will be practicing the wrong things, and thus _learning_ the wrong things. 

Regarding this forum, the main problem for you is you aren't getting the advice you _want_. 

So here's something else: 
1. change your username
2. read about Wing Chun
3. video yourself doing some Wing Chun
4. post it on YouTube and come back here for comments
Then you'll get what you want. 

But I hope you find a good school.


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## ballen0351 (Jul 20, 2012)

Argus said:


> ballen0351, your comment is entirely rude and unwelcomed. If you actually found something, for goodness' sake post a link.



So you want to learn a martial art on your own but your too lazy to even google your home town and the word wing chun you want others to do the work for you? 


> But check that you're actually getting a correct result; when I searched, I got plenty of results, but they either weren't anywhere near Mobile, or didn't actually offer Wing Chun.



The place WC lun posted was the 1st of several I saw with out even trying. 



> If you're just going to ridicule me and spout nonsense, go elsewhere.


I was being honest if you dont want to hear it Im sorry.  If you honestly want to learn any marital art on your own then just go do it.  Why do you care what anyone else thinks of your plan?  If its something you think you can do and its for your own knowledge and nothing else then why go onto a Martial arts forum and ask a question when in your very own first post said you know people here wont be supportive.  I just dont get why people get so wrapped up around seeking approval of their idea.  Why do you need our approval just go train if thats what you want. 
But Honestly Mobile Al is a decient sized city compared to alot of others that people on here live and they found schools to train in and there are several martial arts schools in that area if your interested in really learing a martial arts and the one you pick is not offered (which it is you just didnt take the time to look)  then pick one that is offered and go learn.  Either way you dont need anyones approval but yours.  By you even starting this thread you know its not a good idea your just looking for anyone to stoke your ego and say yeah you can do it.  





> 1. I am dabbling in Wing Chun here. I do not expect to be able to Wing Chun entirely on my own, but would like to learn what I can about it.


So go learn it you tube it or read a book or whatever have fun learn what you can why do you need our approval?


> 2. I would like to network and find someone who has experience with Wing Chun in my area, if I cannot find a school.


So why not post an ad on your local craigs list.  Check with local Colleges and Universities for martial arts clubs most schools have them, or you may need to travel some to find a school.  My dojo I train at is well over an hour and half drive each way without traffic but its a style I wanted to learn so I went and found it.


> 3. Until then, I would like to learn what I can, and do something with my friend, even if it is just practicing Siu Nim Tao and single hand Chi Sao. Or hell, sitting on the horse and just learning to punch vertically, if anyone would care to give me guidance on how I could practice this correctly. I want to familiarize myself with the concepts of Wing Chun, so if I do find someone to practice with, I will at least have a reference point, and can learn from there - as I'm not likely to find someone who can act as dedicated instructor.


Again your saying the same thing if thats all you want for your own personal knowledge then go do it, have fun, and stop looking for approval from others.  



> Also, I would appreciate it if we would stop with the comments about me thinking that I'm special. I don't. I'm merely saying that I have had a lot of experience learning on my own, and in giving an example of what has proven effective for me in the past, I was hoping to spark some conversation on how, perhaps, I could apply similar methods to studying Wing Chun.


You did spark conversation but you didnt like the answer you recieved that happens sometimes.


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## Cyriacus (Jul 20, 2012)

Ive gotta side with Ballen here.
https://www.google.com.au/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ie=UTF-8#hl=en&safe=off&output=search&sclient=psy-ab&q=Mobile%20Alabama%20Wing%20Chun&oq=&gs_l=&pbx=1&fp=4c4dbdfba30104c5&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&biw=1366&bih=643

>

www.dojolocator.com &#8250; Alabama &#8250; Mobile

Its on the first page, and leads straight to
http://www.dojolocator.com/LiuInstitute/

Take that however You all see fit.


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## Flying Crane (Jul 20, 2012)

Argus said:


> _Greetings everyone!_​ I am interested in Wing Chun, and setting out to learn it through self-study, research, and practice. I am sure that the words "self-study" raise a red flag among many practitioners of traditional martial arts, and I'm likely to receive the (usually sound) advice that one cannot learn martial arts without a qualified instructor. Unfortunately, there do not appear to be any practitioners, much less good instructors, of Wing Chun in my area (Mobile, AL), but I believe that with the right amount of study, research, attention to detail, and practice, and a resource such as this where I can ask questions and seek advice, that it is possible to learn on one's own.
> 
> 
> _My Experience, and Philosophy on Learning._​ I'm quite used to studying and learning on my own, and I believe that I have gained very valuable experience in doing so. As such, I would like to introduce my past experience in learning things on my own, and perhaps get advice on how I can best apply this philosophy in pursuit of learning Wing Chun.
> ...



since you are so convinced you can do this, why come here and post?  You won't get our approval, but you don't need it to pursue your own folly.

good luck to you.  you'll need it.


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## J W (Jul 20, 2012)

Greetings, Argus. 

This is a topic that seems to come up farily often; I have seen it at least 3 or 4 times since I've been following the forums, which is only a bit over a year now. I think some of the answers you're getting here are from members who are tired of having the same argument every 4 - 6 months. Hence the blunt answers.

I have been training Wing Chun for almost a year now. I can tell you with certainty that I would never have been able to learn what I have learned so far if I had been trying to teach myself. Not even a fraction. It's great that you've been able to teach yourself foreign languages, however that type of study just doesn't translate to training martial arts. Especially not something like Wing Chun. It is something that can't be learned without physical tactile input from a more experienced practitioner. Many times I have had my sihing answer my questions by giving me an answer that I could _feel_; they could've stood there and tried to explain it for hours and hours, and I never would have been able to understand without the physical answer. 

I hope you abandon this idea of trying to teach yourself, it really would just be a waste of time, and probably worse: you run the risk of teaching yourself bad habits that will need to be unlearned if and when you are able to find a teacher. Better to go into a school empty and ready to learn than to go in with wrong ideas and bad habits that need to be undone. 

Good luck finding a Wing Chun instructor; if there are no schools that teach it in your area, then you may need to dig a little deeper. Sometimes there are excellent teachers who don't teach at tradtional schools, but may only teach at home or meet students in a park. If you can't find a WC teacher, then you should learn something else. Getting good, qualified instruction in your second or third choice martial art is better than teaching yourself a poor imitation of Wing Chun.


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## jks9199 (Jul 20, 2012)

Argus, there are a very tiny number of people who have the combination of intellectual and athletic ability to successfully learn a martial art without direct instruction.  It's not merely a matter of effort or discipline -- it's a balance of athletic ability (coordination, proprioreception, kinesic linking and more) as well as the ability to understand the written material and translate it successfully.  Consider that my teacher literally spent months telling me "tighten your forearm, like this..." followed by "no, that's not it, like this..." and we weren't fighting the written word.  Let me use your own analogy of learning a language.  You claim a reasonable level of fluency in Japanese, and I suspect that you can probably read it (probably in one of the various romanizations) pretty well, and understand it when spoken, especially by people like newscasters or voice-over narrators -- but I suspect that there are many nuances of pronunciation and even spoken sentence construction that would make someone who learned it more interactively almost laugh.  I still respect your achievement -- but I doubt it's comparable to even a Rosetta Stone type learning process.  Or, if it is, it's probably taken you much longer than a truly interactive method would have.

I've got around 25 years of training in my martial art.  I'm currently working on a form, and I'm using notes given me by the person who taught me.  But they aren't my notes, and I hit a major snag with them...  I'm not sure what he means by things as I read them.  

Rather than trying to be some form of autodidact in martial arts -- get some actual instruction.  Your time will be more productively used, and you can turn that autodidactic energy to something else that will be more rewarding of that learning method.  Heck, you'll even get to spend some time with people and maybe even have some fun.  I add that since most people I find trying to do so much learning on their own also tend to be somewhat socially isolated.  Whether the isolation is a result of having to work to learn things or the learning method reflects something deeper is immaterial... and probably unprovable.  But moving out of comfort zones is a big thing that happens with a lot of martial arts training.


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## yak sao (Jul 20, 2012)

I'll give you the same advice Ive given numerous times to people in your situation.
If there is no WC teacher in your town, bring one to you.
Find a WC teacher in your region that is willing to travel to you on a monthly basis and train you. 
Split the cost among a few buddies and train with them between sessions with your teacher.
It's not the ideal situation, but it is a much better alternative to going it alone.


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## Argus (Jul 21, 2012)

Mograph & J W, thank you for your kind advice.

I think that I understand your points more clearly now. In essence, if the form of communication that we have in a martial art like Wing Chun is tactile - responding to touch and pressure, then for two non-practitioners of the art to learn it might be akin to two people who don't know a language learning it on their own, and without ever having heard or held a conversation with a native speaker. That's certainly an absurd idea, and quite the opposite of my whole take on language learning. 


jks9199,

I'll use another analogy here to explain my initial view - however incorrect it may be. Another one of my big hobbies is Civil War reenactment, and I have a deep interest in the tactics used in the Seven Years War, Napoleonic Wars, and the American Civil War. I've read countless manuals in both French and English from these eras, and they contain some of the most detailed and complete instructions I have ever read. After several years of studying all of this as a hobby, it has become very apparent how lazy most reenactors are in passing down this knowledge, and what is even more striking is how many incorrect practices are taught and passed down, and become mainstream. So you will often find officers standing in all the wrong places, giving incorrect, or entirely fictional commands. The men in the ranks sometimes haven't been taught to march and dress properly, and when large numbers of reenactors come together to practice battalion-level maneuvers for events, they often have much difficulty with crowding their guides and losing step. The guides themselves often have difficulty taking straight lines of march, simply having never practiced this, or because of the pressure of other men in the ranks dressing in on them. However, more professional reenactors who actually do the research and study the manuals in detail don't have these kinds of problems. From what I have seen, with an eye for detail and a strong understanding of what should happen, you can make good application in the field of what you study in theory.

I'm not going to defend my Japanese ability here, but I will suffice it to say that you make some very false assumptions. I know very well what I am talking about when it comes to this subject, and I know enough to know just how much I don't know. But more importantly, I've taken classes and met many other students. After a year and a half of self-study, I took an Advanced Japanese class, and was disappointed. They were still working on basics and introducing for the first time concepts that I had been practicing for a year already. The students could not use even the most basic Japanese conversationally, because they had never practiced it outside of class. Vocabulary, reading, writing, and pronunciation were all just... not there, because they had never used the language in the real world, and didn't practice or study outside of class.

My Japanese is what I would call "intermediate." I can watch movies, and talk to my friends in Japan without much difficulty. I can read websites and magazines (in Japanese; not romaji. You won't find anything written in romaji, other than the occasional English word), read my friends' blogs, and that sort of thing as well. However, I'm well aware of where I'm lacking; I can't use keigo (extremely polite japanese), and I'm lost when talking, or reading about business or politics. Literary Japanese is also somewhat difficult for me; some novels, for example, use a lot of words that you wouldn't use in spoken Japanese, and are very detailed and descriptive, so that can be a challenge. However, in the end, it all boils down to experience; how much time and effort have you put into studying, practicing, and using the language outside of class? The more you use it, and the more you see and hear it used, the better you get at the language - both in acquiring knowledge and good habits, and just simply "getting a feel for the language." The more you hear others speak it, the more you notice when you say something that doesn't sound very natural, or catch nuances that you weren't aware of before. Only in this way do you become better aware of your level of understanding and proficiency, and you can work to improve. The students who don't make progress are those who are too afraid (or lazy) to study, practice, and use it on their own. 

However, as I mentioned above, I realize now that to practice Wing Chun, I need to expose myself to people who speak Wing Chun, if you will. In this sense, it is probably more like a language than it is tactics. I suppose this makes sense, because Wing Chun is not a technique based system.


yak sao,

Thanks for the advice. That is a great idea, and definitely an option!


In conclusion, I'll check out the Liu International Shaolin Institute, and see what they have to offer first. If they have Wing Chun and look decent, I'll start there first.


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## J W (Jul 21, 2012)

Argus said:


> I think that I understand your points more clearly now. In essence, if the form of communication that we have in a martial art like Wing Chun is tactile - responding to touch and pressure, then for two non-practitioners of the art to learn it might be akin to two people who don't know a language learning it on their own, and without ever having heard or held a conversation with a native speaker. That's certainly an absurd idea, and quite the opposite of my whole take on language learning.



I'd say that is a fair analogy. Much of the communication between teacher and student in Wing Chun is tactile, and without that method of communication available to you, you don't stand much of a chance of learning properly. 

Glad to see that we were able to get through to you; some people with this notion of teaching themselves just can't be reasoned with, and are convinced that they can pull it off. If you've got some time to waste, you can read through this thread that was going on when I first joined MT:

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/sh...d-help!!!&highlight=lone+wing+chun+practioner

You can see how well this worked out for him.

It sounds like you may have some options to learn Wing Chun after all, hopefully that Liu Institute will work out for you. Let us know how it goes.


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## mograph (Jul 21, 2012)

Excellent. Godspeed, young Argus!


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## Vajramusti (Jul 21, 2012)

I agree with the skepticism on self taught wing chun. 
If the gentleman is serious some sacrifices are in order.
Drive or fly to a good wing chun school and get started and then 
practice and follow up at regular intervals.

I began wing chun with my sifu Fong in Tucson when I lived in Tucson.
Years later my employment took me to Las Cruces NM. For six years after that I drove roundtrip 540 miles each week
to get instruction on Friday, Saturday and Sundays.(then I came back to Arizona- not to Tucson but up the road to Tempe))
I still stay in touch with my sifu, kung fu brothers and sisters.

245 miles away from you there is a Moy Yat kwoon in Tallahassee, Florida.
There is a sifu Ying Hung who teaches there I believe. Check him and his school out-
if you are serious.

Or, there may be a top flight instructor of some other style that you can learn from.


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## Danny T (Jul 22, 2012)

Argus, 
You can certainly read and research much on Wing Chun and even gain some insight into the principles and concepts. You can see and simulate the movements, positions, and structures of what the wing chun system trains. You can become very proficient in the presentation of the forms. What you 'will not' have is the understanding of, ability to use, or be at any level of proficience in is the 'feel' of what wing chun is about. You may be an amazing self taught learner, but you can not learn something you do not know what to learn. You may know you have to learn something about feel but what is it you have to learn? The true understanding of the wing chun system is in the 'feel' and you will not get that from reading. Only from someone who knows the how and why of the feel. If you pursue anyway, all the best. Learning the positions, movements, and presentations "IS NOT" learning Wing Chun.


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## Domino (Jul 24, 2012)

Research to begin with is good but dont over think it.
Also as you said, that training incorrectly could just waste your time, go feel for yourself in a class, you will probably then get the bug.


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## Argus (Jul 26, 2012)

Well, I checked out the Shaolin Institute. I walked in, spoke with the "receptionist" (?) for a few minutes, filled out a basic sheet with my contact information, etc., and then was given a tour. One thing that I noticed is that they had "belts." On the floor, I observed several students practicing Tai-Chi forms. I was introduced to the Grand Master, who heads The Liu International Shaolin Institute, which in all has three other schools. He is a Shaolin Monk who left and came here in the 80's. We spoke for a short time about my interest in martial arts, and he spoke about Shaolin Kung-fu. After this, I was introduced to either a top student, or another teacher, and was given a short intro lesson on the floor. 

On the floor, I was taught to salute (the palm and fist), and we covered the very starting points of Shaolin Kung-fu (Wushu, I think?) and Chinese Kick-Boxing. Unfortunately, when I inquired about Wing Chun, they seemed to try to persuade me towards Shaolin Kung-fu instead, and mostly equated it with sticky hands practice. My instructor claimed to have done a little Wing Chun, but expressed his opinion that it wasn't very practical, and seemed to be more into kick-boxing.

After this, I spoke with the master again, showed him what we went over, and spoke about classes. He also spoke a lot about his philosophy regarding Kung-fu and Shaolin ideals, which I found interesting. He had a very high opinion of Shaolin though, and spoke of both Shaolin temple's reputation, and his own school's. He claims to have trained two famous UFC fighters. Returning to the subject of classes and pricing, he said that classes were $99/mo for weekly lessons, and $199/mo for two or more lessons a week, though motivated students could receive "scholarships" for extra weekly lessons. They also wanted a $200/year fee.

All in all, it was interesting, and I enjoyed talking to him and getting my first taste of classes, but I don't think it is for me. I'm not really interested in Shaolin Kung-fu/Wushu, and not at all interested in Kick-boxing, though Tai-chi has some appeal. Moreover, they seem very expensive, and to want a big commitment up front. I was also slightly put off by how they spoke a lot of their reputation, and didn't have much interest in Wing-Chun (or my interest in it), though I can understand why they would be proud of their Shaolin lineage.

So, I'm pretty much left to other options, or martial arts. I will try networking and finding a teacher or qualified student whom I can meet up with, or perhaps some other arrangement. I will check out that Moy Yat kwoon in Tallahassee. It's quite a long way to drive, and I'm not sure if I have the time and money to make it happen, but perhaps we can arrange something.


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## simplewc101 (Jul 26, 2012)

nothing is as beneficial as having someone personally teach you wing chun. you can not get better if you do not touch hands with someone better than you.

When this subject pops up I always go to http://www.wcarchive.com/html/wing-chun-schools.htm and search accordingly. It's usually fairly up to date with phone numbers and links to webpages. 
the only one I saw in AL is almost 4 hours away from Mobile, but there is a Ip Man > Ip Ching lineage school in FL that is much closer. I would recommend seeing if you can get a few buddies to go with you and take either his private or group classes. That way, you will have some people to practice with on your own time.

http://centerlinewingchun.com/

many people on these forums have traveled as far or further to learn. If you get the WC bug, there's no tellin how far one might go to get their fix

hope this helps


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## Argus (Jul 26, 2012)

That's actually not so far! Half the distance of Tallahassee, in fact!


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## wtxs (Jul 26, 2012)

Argus said:


> All in all, it was interesting, and I enjoyed talking to him and *getting my first taste of* classes, but I don't think it is for me. I'm not really interested in Shaolin Kung-fu/Wushu, and not at all interested in Kick-boxing, though Tai-chi has some appeal. Moreover, they seem very expensive, and to want a big commitment up front. I was also slightly put off by how they spoke a lot of their reputation, and didn't have much interest in Wing-Chun (or my interest in it), though I can understand why they would be proud of their Shaolin lineage.
> 
> So, I'm pretty much left to other options, or martial arts. I will try networking and finding a teacher or qualified student whom I can meet up with, or perhaps some other arrangement. I will check out that Moy Yat kwoon in Tallahassee. It's quite a long way to drive, and I'm not sure if I have the time and money to make it happen, but perhaps we can arrange something.



Sorry to hear you are not having luck finding WC close to you.  As high lighted above in bold, you had also gotten an big'ol taste of classic commercialism.  I, as many others, teach/works out in private group/setting, Craig's list and networking are your best bet if you try to stay closer to home.

Wish you an happy ending to your search.


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## Domino (Jul 30, 2012)

Seems a nice meet and great.
I cant sway your opinion but go with your gutt instinct, which I think you already have.


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## ilhe4e12345 (Jul 30, 2012)

im gonna give you my honest truth behind this idea...and that would be dont ever train yourself. Im sorry but you cant...you def wont get the same experience that you would from learning off of a teacher or even a 1-2 year WC student. I always thought that it would be easy to learn a martial art on your own, with the vast amount of information and things out there (interent, tv, movies, books, digital etc..) but you just cant. You will never get what you can get from a teacher...ever. Its impossible to fully understand everythin that is going on especially with a martial art. You cang et all the books you want, all the videos and study every single day till you cant lift your arms or move but it will never be the same as training with a teacher. 

I personally have looked into "distance learning" courses and currently own many books on different styles but it is just a waste in money and time trying to teach yourself without any previous training in any martial art and even then if you knew something else, all styles are different so an example would be knowing Karate for 10 uears doesnt mean you can teach yourself Kung Fu White Crane.....you just cant. 

I had to waste the time and money to finally open my eyes to the fact that I can never learn certain styles due to them not being in my area. That doesnt stop me from owning many books on the different styles and its always good to open my mind up but I will never say "hey i know drunken boxing because I have 3 books on it and have gone through them every day". I love Wing Chun, and after becoming interested in it from the IP Man movies (I know its a movie but it was enough to get me interested) and after taking lessons from ym current teacher I can tell you....two classes with my current teacher alone taught me more then any books I could ever read.

Sorry Im not trying to shoot your dreams down, or insult you. Im trying to give you my personal experience and tell you that it wont be anything like learning from a teacher....I love martial arts and I hope that my experiences will help you out. Please take the time and do whatever you can..even if that means you can only see a teacher once a month because of the distance or only ever learn from seminars.....its worth it...always worth it....

Happy Training Friend


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## James Kovacich (Jul 30, 2012)

wtxs said:


> Sorry to hear you are not having luck finding WC close to you.  As high lighted above in bold, you had also gotten an big'ol taste of classic commercialism.  I, as many others, teach/works out in private group/setting, Craig's list and networking are your best bet if you try to stay closer to home.
> 
> Wish you an happy ending to your search.



You will never "experience" sensitivity on your own or with your (WC) inexperienced training partner. I don't know Alabama but Sifu Lamar Davis is in Alabama and work looking at. He teaches JKD but it heavily WC influenced. He has much to offer.

Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk


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## XDJuicebox (Aug 9, 2012)

While it is extremely difficult to learn by yourself, it is still possible - but it's so difficult that it's basically impossible. You kind of have to be lucky and hoped that you interpreted all of the material properly.

I'm also learning Wing Chun by myself [with a buddy of course], and it's actually a bit difficult, there are so many questions that come up, and I try to get them answered on the internet, but you'll never know how proper Chi Sau feels until you do it with someone that knows.

There is someone who explains everything extremely well though, and that's Jin Young [who studied under Hawkins Cheung, and trains in LA], and he can be found at www.youtube.com/chinaboxer

I mainly learned from him, and he is a great teacher - and he has a lot of these tests that you can do so that you know if you're doing it right or not, which is pretty neat.

I'm planning on driving down so that I can get him to tell me everything that I'm doing wrong 

But hey, you can try and learn as much as you can, but I would recommend getting an instructor at some point [maybe when you save up enough to start traveling?] to correct your errors.


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## J W (Aug 9, 2012)

XDJuicebox said:


> While it is extremely difficult to learn by yourself, it is still possible - but it's so difficult that it's basically impossible. You kind of have to be lucky and hoped that you interpreted all of the material properly.



I would put the odds of correctly interpreting all of the material without an actual instructor at next to nil. 1 in a million. Please don't think that you will be the one to do it.



XDJuicebox said:


> I'm planning on driving down so that I can get him to tell me everything that I'm doing wrong
> 
> But hey, you can try and learn as much as you can, but I would recommend getting an instructor at some point [maybe when you save up enough to start traveling?] to correct your errors.



I would advise against trying to learn anything before you meet with an instructor. Without an instructor, you will most likely be doing a lot wrong. Expecting an instructor to undo all of the bad habits that you've taught yourself in a session or two is a bit unrealistic, let alone actually learning anything new in those sessions.

If you really want to learn and Chinaboxer is willing to teach you in person, then you should drive down and study under him regularly, not just watch his Youtube videos and then drive down at some point expecting him to undo your bad habits.


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## Argus (Aug 10, 2012)

XDJuicebox said:


> While it is extremely difficult to learn by yourself, it is still possible - but it's so difficult that it's basically impossible. You kind of have to be lucky and hoped that you interpreted all of the material properly.
> 
> I'm also learning Wing Chun by myself [with a buddy of course], and it's actually a bit difficult, there are so many questions that come up, and I try to get them answered on the internet, but you'll never know how proper Chi Sau feels until you do it with someone that knows.
> 
> ...



That was exactly my take on everything. I've also watched all of chinaboxer's videos, and the amount of depth he goes into is very good. He mentions all of the things that he looks for when correcting students. All of the common mistakes, and how you can check yourself to make sure you're doing it right. Even Moy Yat touched on this when discussing forms. I've always been of the strong opinion that discipline and learning must be self-imposed, and that many people rely far too heavily on teachers to always correct their mistakes. In the same way, whenever possible, I believe that teachers should not just correct mistakes, but explain to the student how to recognize and correct them. Mistakes are for the student to know about and correct first; if he has to be corrected by the teacher all of the time, he's not learning. At least, not as efficiently as he could be.

At any rate though, I'll defer to everyone else here with more experience until I really know what I am talking about. I'm driving 2.5 hours to attend my first class tomorrow, and from here on, I'll probably be asking questions like "how do I know that I am doing this right?" or "how should this feel?" a lot. I want to learn what to look for, and get the right feeling so that I can correct myself.


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