# 2 NY Teens Plan Attack On School



## MJS (May 9, 2010)

Link



> NEW YORK - A 17-year-old with a grudge against his former Long Island high school planned with his girlfriend to buy shotguns, enter his old school and indiscriminately shoot down students and teachers days before his ex-classmates were scheduled to graduate, police said Friday.
> The two teenagers extensively researched bomb making, attempted to buy a shotgun and set a June 10 date for the planned attack on Connetquot High School in Bohemia, Suffolk County police Sgt. Bill Doherty said.
> Evidence from the 16-year-old girl's computer and cell phone showed they'd searched bomb-making and explosives websites, and exchanged text messages in which they discussed plans to buy firearms and kill people, police said.


 
WTF is wrong with people today?  I mean really, reading stuff like this makes me sad, but moreso, it makes me sick.  I'm glad that their plot was discovered before anything happened.  

Of course this part disgusted me as well:



> Each could face up to a year in jail if convicted


 
Personally, I say lock their asses up for at least 9 more years on top of that 1yr.  Then, before their released back into society, make damn sure they're mentally stable enough.


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## terryl965 (May 9, 2010)

It is hard to believr our legal system works when you read stuff like this, one year come on. I just do not believ in the system and I feel sorry for the police men and women of this country.


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## David43515 (May 9, 2010)

Is murder the only crime where you get a pass for being a screw up? You get a greatly reduced sentence for "attempted murder", but if I catch you in the act of stealing something instead of in a raid on your house you aren`t charged with "attempted burglary" you`re charged with "burglary".


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## 5-0 Kenpo (May 9, 2010)

David43515 said:


> Is murder the only crime where you get a pass for being a screw up? You get a greatly reduced sentence for "attempted murder", but if I catch you in the act of stealing something instead of in a raid on your house you aren`t charged with "attempted burglary" you`re charged with "burglary".


 
California Penal Code Section 459 (Burglary): Any person who enters a structure with the intent to commit grand theft, petty theft, or any other felony.

The entering and intent are enough for the fulfillment of this crime.  You need not complete the act of theft or another felony for the elements of burglary to be fulfilled. 

Now, if the person was caught at the window at o'dark thirty with a screwdriver attempting to pry open said window, then it would be attempted burglary.


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## LuckyKBoxer (May 10, 2010)

umm 16 and 17 year olds are still kids... lock them up for 10 years? you might as well just put a bullet in their head and get rid of the future problem now... because after 10 years in juvenile prison, and the big house they will so screwed up they will only be able to commit to a long life of crime for sure. No I am not a big fan of all these convictions  of minors and these sentences for adults... it seems really hypocritical..  Either we open everything up for minors to be adults at a certain age, or we do not penalize minors as adults at that same age. It just seems wrong to me..

Personally I feel our prison system like our education system is broken and completely in need to being scrapped and redone from the ground up. Seems to me prisons have become a training ground and networking hub for criminals to become tougher, and better connected to commit crimes successfully. I see absolutely nothing positive about sentencing these kids to 10 years in prison. Do you really see that as being a positive solution? Or are you just pissed off at the futility of our justice system? because if its the latter I am right with you.


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## Drac (May 10, 2010)

Lucky Boxer said:
			
		

> Personally I feel our prison system like our education system is broken and completely in need to being scrapped and redone from the ground up. Seems to me prisons have become a training ground and networking hub for criminals to become tougher, and better connected to commit crimes successfully. I see absolutely nothing positive about sentencing these kids to 10 years in prison


 

Sad but true..We need a solution and someway to punish these little monsters. I codone the Alcatraz style prison..One man, one cell..Let out to eat and shower..Its prison not a country club..


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## Sukerkin (May 10, 2010)

Quite so, *Drac*. 

I have swung more towards 'Justice' as punishment rather than rehabilitation as I've gotten older {and, inevitably, more right-wing} but I am even more in favour of not allowing prisions to become training grounds for convicts to become more professional in their 'chosen' profession! 

By all means encourage education and maybe even the rehab 'long-shot' of reflection on the lack of social morality {their own and the 'system'} that got them into their current situation but not 'courses' in Criminal Skills 101.


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## MJS (May 10, 2010)

LuckyKBoxer said:


> umm 16 and 17 year olds are still kids... lock them up for 10 years? you might as well just put a bullet in their head and get rid of the future problem now... because after 10 years in juvenile prison, and the big house they will so screwed up they will only be able to commit to a long life of crime for sure. No I am not a big fan of all these convictions of minors and these sentences for adults... it seems really hypocritical.. Either we open everything up for minors to be adults at a certain age, or we do not penalize minors as adults at that same age. It just seems wrong to me..
> 
> Personally I feel our prison system like our education system is broken and completely in need to being scrapped and redone from the ground up. Seems to me prisons have become a training ground and networking hub for criminals to become tougher, and better connected to commit crimes successfully. I see absolutely nothing positive about sentencing these kids to 10 years in prison. Do you really see that as being a positive solution? Or are you just pissed off at the futility of our justice system? because if its the latter I am right with you.


 
I think you and I are more on the same page than it may seem.  The 'system', IMHO, is screwed up.  Is it screwed up beyond repair?  I think theres hope, but I also think that no matter what happens, nobody will ever be 100% happy.  I also feel that rehab in a prison setting, is a joke, and I stand by that 110%.  In the short time I worked for the DOC, here in CT, I saw enough to know that all the programs they offered were just an excuse for the inmates to get some time out of the housing unit.  I highly doubt the AA, NA and Bible study groups they went to, were really making drastic changes in their lives. LOL.  Rehab is a 2 way street.  You can put them thru it until they're blue in the face, but if THEY dont want to be rehab'd, they will not take any of those sessions to heart, and I believe that!  

As for my comments about these kids....they didn't kill anyone...thank God, so maybe my 10yr comment was on the extreme side.  Let me ask you though...had they went thru with the plan and people died, would you feel the same way then?  And age aside, it doesnt excuse their actions.  But I think where we should start, is at the home.  What went so wrong in these kids lives, that they went to this extreme?  I mean, I think its safe to say we were bullied ourselves of knew someone who was.  What was their home life like?  Theres a problem somewhere.

So...what to do with them?  Slap their wrist?  Give them a year?  Is that year too much?  Rehab?  Something needs to be done.  I guess finding out what though, is a big part of the battle.


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## MJS (May 10, 2010)

Drac said:


> Sad but true..We need a solution and someway to punish these little monsters. I codone the Alcatraz style prison..One man, one cell..Let out to eat and shower..Its prison not a country club..


 
Amen brother, Amen!  IMO, if the prisons were more of what they should be, prison, then maybe, just maybe, it'd be so miserable that they wouldn't want to come back.  I wonder what the turnover rate is in AZ., with Sheriff Joe?  Seems like his place is definately NOT Club Med. LOL.

Of course, I'm sure if every place were like that, the bleeding hearts club would complain about the, how shall I say it...less than humane conditions.  Sorry, I disagree.  I dont think Joe beats the inmates.  I'm sure he does just enough to not cross the line.


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## Blade96 (May 10, 2010)

I suggestion I have is to make 'freedom' more pleasant than it sometimes is today. Some people's lives are so Effed that they really dont care anymore even if they're on the 'outside' Its like russian roulette. Go to prison yer Effed. Stay out of prison.....your life is still crap cause somepeople's lives are so effed even if they stay out.....They are playing roulette.

So, make 'freedom' more pleasant. help improve people's lives. Then, they might work harder to stay out of prison.


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## Satt (May 10, 2010)

LuckyKBoxer said:


> umm 16 and 17 year olds are still kids... lock them up for 10 years? *you might as well just put a bullet in their head and get rid of the future problem now...* because after 10 years in juvenile prison, and the big house they will so screwed up they will only be able to commit to a long life of crime for sure. No I am not a big fan of all these convictions of minors and these sentences for adults... it seems really hypocritical.. Either we open everything up for minors to be adults at a certain age, or we do not penalize minors as adults at that same age. It just seems wrong to me..
> 
> Personally I feel our prison system like our education system is broken and completely in need to being scrapped and redone from the ground up. Seems to me prisons have become a training ground and networking hub for criminals to become tougher, and better connected to commit crimes successfully. I see absolutely nothing positive about sentencing these kids to 10 years in prison. Do you really see that as being a positive solution? Or are you just pissed off at the futility of our justice system? because if its the latter I am right with you.


 
Now there's an idea...:shooter: 


...I am kidding of course.


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## MJS (May 11, 2010)

Blade96 said:


> I suggestion I have is to make 'freedom' more pleasant than it sometimes is today. Some people's lives are so Effed that they really dont care anymore even if they're on the 'outside' Its like russian roulette. Go to prison yer Effed. Stay out of prison.....your life is still crap cause somepeople's lives are so effed even if they stay out.....They are playing roulette.
> 
> So, make 'freedom' more pleasant. help improve people's lives. Then, they might work harder to stay out of prison.


 
Well, I always say that we, as individuals, control our own lives.  Granted some people have more luxury than others, but I'm not suicidal because I dont make 6 figures a year and drive a $90,000 vehicle.  I make the best of what I have...it could always be worse.  

And considering the country that we live in, and seeing that people seem to flock to this country both legally and illegally, it can't be too bad of a place.


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## MJS (May 11, 2010)

Just to further this discussion, I'd like to ask this:  if people feel that prison should not be an option for these 2, what do you think should be done with these 2 kids?  Its very obvious that they both have some serious issues.


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## LuckyKBoxer (May 11, 2010)

kind of off topic here, but what actual laws have they broken so far?
I do not support them at all.... but thinking of what punishment I would like.... I had to think what laws did they actually break? I know they are charged with Conspiracy... but a great lawyer will get that thrown out fairly easily I would imagine.... I can see conspiracy being an easier charge if they had actually built an explosive, or purchased the shotguns and were on their way to go do the deed.... but at this point isn't it just a couple kids talking crap?


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## CanuckMA (May 11, 2010)

Have to agree with Lucky here. Looking at bomb making site is not a crime.

I don't think trying to buy a shotgun is either. Selling to minors would be, but not the attempt to buy.

And talking smack in SMS is not  crime either.


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## RandomPhantom700 (May 12, 2010)

LuckyKBoxer said:


> kind of off topic here, but what actual laws have they broken so far?
> I do not support them at all.... but thinking of what punishment I would like.... I had to think what laws did they actually break? I know they are charged with Conspiracy... but a great lawyer will get that thrown out fairly easily I would imagine.... I can see conspiracy being an easier charge if they had actually built an explosive, or purchased the shotguns and were on their way to go do the deed.... but at this point isn't it just a couple kids talking crap?


 
I agree with you, but the attempt to purchase the weapons and the exchange of planning messages is dancing pretty close to the line.  A skilled prosecutor could turn those into substantial steps towards execution.


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## LuckyKBoxer (May 12, 2010)

RandomPhantom700 said:


> I agree with you, but the attempt to purchase the weapons and the exchange of planning messages is dancing pretty close to the line. A skilled prosecutor could turn those into substantial steps towards execution.


 
I would think a skilled defense attorney would have no problem introducing reasonable doubt... they were just talking.... blowing off steam... planning a movie.... writing a creative story.... I am sure there are dozens more.

The thing that catches my eye the most is that the guy graduated from a special ed school and has a social worker, and the girl is attending a special ed school.... how competant or incompetant are they?

I am not on the kids side at all.. I am just looking at it and wondering what they are actually going to be able to be convicted of..


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## MJS (May 12, 2010)

LuckyKBoxer said:


> kind of off topic here, but what actual laws have they broken so far?
> I do not support them at all.... but thinking of what punishment I would like.... I had to think what laws did they actually break? I know they are charged with Conspiracy... but a great lawyer will get that thrown out fairly easily I would imagine.... I can see conspiracy being an easier charge if they had actually built an explosive, or purchased the shotguns and were on their way to go do the deed.... but at this point isn't it just a couple kids talking crap?


 
I dont think this question is off topic at all.  Actually I think its relevant to the thread.   I'm not a lawyer or LEO, so perhaps one of our resident members could chime in.  

But, for the sake of the question, I'll take a stab at it.  The only thing that I can think of would be pre-meditating an attack.  I mean, if someone gave the cops a tip that someone was planning a terror attack, and the cops go to investigate, and see signs indicating an attack was being planned, is that grounds enough to arrest someone?  I'm going to say yes, though I may be wrong.  I mean, how many times do we see someone arrested for drugs, and one of the charges is possession with intent to sell?  Happens all the time.  Will that charge be tossed?  No idea.


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## Blade96 (May 13, 2010)

MJS said:


> Well, I always say that we, as individuals, control our own lives.  Granted some people have more luxury than others, but I'm not suicidal because I dont make 6 figures a year and drive a $90,000 vehicle.  I make the best of what I have...it could always be worse.
> 
> And considering the country that we live in, and seeing that people seem to flock to this country both legally and illegally, it can't be too bad of a place.



Now I disagree with you. I think things happen in people's lives over which they have no control. I dont believe that just anyone can get ahead if they work hard enough. Why if that really were the case, we wouldn't need welfare and social security and all this 'leftist' help stuff. Cause....anyone can live well right if they work? I just dont believe that. Fact is some people's lives are terrible and for some it is a factor in crime. Helping people to get ahead and making freedom more pleasant can affect whether a person commits a crime or not.


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## Satt (May 13, 2010)

Blade96 said:


> Now I disagree with you. I think things happen in people's lives over which they have no control. I dont believe that just anyone can get ahead if they work hard enough. Why if that really were the case, we wouldn't need welfare and social security and all this 'leftist' help stuff. Cause....anyone can live well right if they work? I just dont believe that. Fact is some people's lives are terrible and for some it is a factor in crime. Helping people to get ahead and making freedom more pleasant can affect whether a person commits a crime or not.


 
I think this assumes *everyone* is *willing* to work hard.


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## MJS (May 14, 2010)

Blade96 said:


> Now I disagree with you. I think things happen in people's lives over which they have no control. I dont believe that just anyone can get ahead if they work hard enough. Why if that really were the case, we wouldn't need welfare and social security and all this 'leftist' help stuff. Cause....anyone can live well right if they work? I just dont believe that. Fact is some people's lives are terrible and for some it is a factor in crime. Helping people to get ahead and making freedom more pleasant can affect whether a person commits a crime or not.


 
So, are you saying that just because someone lives in a poor area, is surrounded by problems, that they're destined to fall into that?  If thats what you're saying, I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with you.  Bad things happen all the time.  Its how we deal with them, that makes the difference.  For example:  Lets say my wife and I both work.  I get laid off from my job, so now its 1 income and obviously we have to make changes in our lifestyle.  Does this mean I need to resort to a life of crime because I dont have a job?  Of course not.  

Fact is, there're many on welfare because they ran into a spat of bad luck, and there're others who milk the system, and feel that the system owes them something, thus they make no effort to better themselves.  Way back when I was little, my mom was on it.  Divorced that useless piece of **** (my father), but she busted her *** to better herself and she did.  

So again, I'm sorry, but I can't believe that eveyr person, who's having a bit of bad luck, has to turn into a bad apple.  Thats what they choose to do because they dont feel there's any other options.  I beg to differ.


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## MJS (May 14, 2010)

Satt said:


> I think this assumes *everyone* is *willing* to work hard.


 
Are you talking about my post or Blades?


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## Satt (May 14, 2010)

MJS said:


> Are you talking about my post or Blades?


 
Look at who I quoted before my comment.


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## LuckyKBoxer (May 14, 2010)

Blade96 said:


> Now I disagree with you. I think things happen in people's lives over which they have no control. I dont believe that just anyone can get ahead if they work hard enough. Why if that really were the case, we wouldn't need welfare and social security and all this 'leftist' help stuff. Cause....anyone can live well right if they work? I just dont believe that. Fact is some people's lives are terrible and for some it is a factor in crime. Helping people to get ahead and making freedom more pleasant can affect whether a person commits a crime or not.


 
I disagree, I think more often then not peopel have unrealistic expectations on what their happy life would be... instead of finding what they love to do and make a living doing it, they see what the wealthy have and expect it. 

It is not our jobs as a society to make everyones freedom more happy.... thats the goal of socialism and its complete crap, it doesn't work, all it does is destroy the entire society. No people need to get back to reality, stop expecting everything and be held accountable. We need to make imprisonment, or lack of freedom much more unhappy and uncomfortable to make it a true deterent to these scum that feel they can take from others illegally to satisfy their own desires.
But that being said by all means you go make whoevers freedom you want more happy with your own money and your own production, but touch mine or try to touch mine and we are going to battle over it.


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## MJS (May 14, 2010)

Satt said:


> Look at who I quoted before my comment.


 
My bad. Sorry.


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## Blade96 (May 14, 2010)

Its ok. Not everyone here is a leftwinger. I understand that lots arent gonna agree with me on this. Thats ok.  (and yeah I'm a leftie, maybe not a big radical fundamentalist something - I hate anything fundy - but I'm more leftwing than right wing.)


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## MJS (May 15, 2010)

Blade96 said:


> Its ok. Not everyone here is a leftwinger. I understand that lots arent gonna agree with me on this. Thats ok.  (and yeah I'm a leftie, maybe not a big radical fundamentalist something - I hate anything fundy - but I'm more leftwing than right wing.)


 
Well, while my posts may sound left, right, up or down..lol...please don't lump me into the political groups. Frankly, I'm not interested in politics, and usually stay out of those types of discussion, both here and in real life. 

But, I still stand by what I said in my posts in this thread.  So, back to the discussion of the plot that these kids were trying to pull off.


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## MJS (Jun 9, 2010)

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37576078/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/

Hmm...I have to say, that after seeing this, I do not believe that there is any hope for kids like this.  Rehab...whats that?  I go back on what I said earlier..these kids, regardless of their age, need to be locked up.  I'm sorry if some feel that because they're kids, that jail isn't right for them.  IMHO, the public is not safe with people like this running around.


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## knuckleheader (Jun 9, 2010)

These kids need serious psychiatric counseling and anger management for say 2-4 years with followed up probation and community service. I agree sending them to a max security prison could be more harmful. They have to be made to understand, the seriousness of their intentions are not taken lightly.

Hey, I worry about my own kid being a victim of some other crazy students at his school. Todays youth, I don't know what to say.


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## MJS (Jun 9, 2010)

knuckleheader said:


> These kids need serious psychiatric counseling and anger management for say 2-4 years with followed up probation and community service. I agree sending them to a max security prison could be more harmful. They have to be made to understand, the seriousness of their intentions are not taken lightly.
> 
> Hey, I worry about my own kid being a victim of some other crazy students at his school. Todays youth, I don't know what to say.


 
From the link:



> the second time in three years he has been accused of such a plot.


 
If they dont understand it after this, then there isnt any hope.  I mean, should it take 2 times for them to understand?  Max security...where I live there are various levels.  Does it warrant max?  Maybe, maybe not, but IMO, it warrants more than rehab.


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## knuckleheader (Jun 9, 2010)

From the link:


Quote:
the second time in three years he has been accused of such a plot. 


 Hey mjs, ooopppss, throw away the key.


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