# Pre emptive?



## cfadeftac (Nov 6, 2004)

Hi all,

I have a few systema videos and have read quite a few posts about the system;  I am just curious if with its' "accepting" mindset how well it can be used pre emptively in either a striking or removing a person from the premises kind of scenario.

Thanks for your time

Andrew


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## tichok (Nov 6, 2004)

Yes.  It called 'short work' often; bad translation.  Here is American English explanation http://blackbeltmag.com/document_display.cfm?document_id=205


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## Furtry (Nov 6, 2004)

tichok said:
			
		

> Yes.  It called 'short work' often; bad translation.  Here is American English explanation http://blackbeltmag.com/document_display.cfm?document_id=205


One thing can be said for sure of SS, He's *NEVER* been a man of a few words :uhyeah: .
_30 Tidbits of Lifesaving Wisdom Every Martial Artist Needs to Know _


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## cfadeftac (Nov 6, 2004)

Thanks for the responses but I am still confused, is short work just a survive at all costs attitude? 

I have studied a few martial arts and found that some really emphasized the move first mentality (balintiwak arnis); while others because of the way they view situations (kempo) even though they talk about moving first and even practise it ocassionally the structure and mentality of the system made it very difficult.  Some of the aikijujitsu/Yeung chuan type stuff that I have dabbled in seems to be down right impossible to apply on the attack because of the its' relaxed nature though I admit as I get older I think the aiki/Yeung stuff will be much more effective than either arnis or kempo.  

Systema seems very much like the aiki/Yeung material but a little more aggressive so I am very curious about its' offensive application.  I have some tapes by Mr. Vasiliev which I like very much but I never saw any thing I caught as move first to shut the other guy down.

Sorry for the long response

Andrew


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## NYCRonin (Nov 7, 2004)

There are many 'pre-emptive' movements in Systema....or should I say 'ways to shut down an attack before or in its very early stage'.
There is one brief demo by Vlad in his TRS tapes...and the mass attack tape shows Vlad dealing with his attackers in a more aggressive manner.
The many tape offerings are more defensive in nature -- but the work we do in training situations does include a more aggressive type. 

'Professional work/military/b.guard' expressions of Systema movement are very much pro-active....and in time, perhaps Vlad will dedicate his efforts to produce such an offering that features more of this pro-active material for people to view. Any hands-on Systeman can demo it....I am sure they would if you ask, when you can find such a person.


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## cfadeftac (Nov 7, 2004)

Thank you NYC RONIN one of my instructors equals dropped by on a trip back from Toronto, where he lived before moving to Vancouver, and had nothing but great things to say about Mr. Vasiliev just wish he had the time to show our class some stuff.


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## Mark Jakabcsin (Nov 8, 2004)

Andrew,
It's hard to find or understand truth in mere words. Truth is found in motion not language. Furthermore, video is, at best, a poor representation of reality. Therefore to find truth to your questions you must seek it out first hand. Shortly Jim King will be in Seatle for a seminar and possibly more. My understanding of western geography is that Seatle isn't too far away from Vancover (but then I am a dumb east coast guy). I highly suggest you seek some truth to your questions about Systema with Jim King. Enjoy.....and if he asks if you want a Russian massage say 'No thanks'.......but highly recommend the massage to your BEST friend.

mark j.


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## cfadeftac (Nov 8, 2004)

Actually I see that there is a Systema instructor (Vali Majd) north of me on the island I live on so one day when time allows I will drop by. He is only about three hours away so that is much closer than Seattle and will not cost me the 80.00 in ferry round trip.

Thank you for all your responses I guess I will just have to see this for myself.

AN


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## Kwan Lee (Nov 8, 2004)

AN,

You will find Val to be a very insightful and patient instructor, with his own distinct flavor of the System.  He is very talented and deceptively fluid in his movements and is not as well known probably because he keeps to himself on the islands (at least that was where he and his family were the last time we corresponded).  Definitely seek Val out for continuous training, but do consider attending Jim's seminar, as he is also very talented and can give you addtional insight into the System.

Good luck in your search!

Kwan Lee


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## Brian King (Nov 8, 2004)

Andrew,
It will be worth your time to train with Val. He is truly a great guy and is very good at teaching Systema. He understands how to pace a class and allow everybody to do the work. He has some great students as well.

He and some of his students will be coming down to Jim Kings seminar and there are a couple of guys coming down from Langley also. Perhaps you could share the costs of travel. Regardless of if you make it down to Seattle, we will be back up to your area to again train with Vali some day in the near future, perhaps we will meet then.

See you on the floor soon
Friends
Brian King


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## jellyman (Nov 10, 2004)

"Vali Majd"

Very very good.


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## kage110 (Nov 10, 2004)

Taking the discussion back to the 'pre-emptive'; I can't speak for Systema but my instructor (a long term Systema practitoner) makes the point that often you simply won't see the first attack (as in the scenario of being ambushed as you walk into a dark room or turn a corner in the street) so if you train with the perspective of being able to see and avoid or see and pre-empt the first strike you leave yourself open to a sneakier type of attack.

Not the whole story I know but something worth thinking about in these days of emphasising pre-emption and avoidance drills...

Hugh


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## NYCRonin (Nov 10, 2004)

That is very true.
So many different 'points of beginning' to do the work from.
Particularly if one has to defend from a more 'professional' type of attack -- as in, defense against criminal(s). They VERY rarely engage in a 'confrontational' starting point...and use surprise, deception or immediate attempts to use overwhelming force. The classic idea of -- "Give me your money - I have a gun' is not as frequently employed as one might imagine. There are many variations on a theme -- but the 'stand and deliver' setting is far less common than one might guess.

And thats just with robbery...other crimes of violence also rarely start from a 'dueling starting point'.


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