# JKD vs. Wing Chun



## DoubleZ711

Don't flame me please!!!

How does this Martial Art compare with Wing Chun in terms of pure self-defense and effectiveness? The only reason I wouldn't want to take something simpler like karate or taekwondo is because most of the moves they teach don't really seem to be useful in a real life situation, but then again, I am only a boxer, which can hardly be considered a real martial art, so I may be wrong. Anyways, I could lie and say that I am not at all fascinated by this art simply because of Bruce Lee, but that would of course.. be a lie.

However, I am thinking of starting an MA pretty soon and I am thinking of either this or Wing Chun.

If one of you guys has the time, can you please tell me the MAJOR differences between the two? I don't need to know slightly insignificant stuff like where it was founded and by whom etc... 

Anyways, Thanks!!


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## joeygil

There's quite a difference between JKD and Wing Chun.  Depending on the school, you'll see more or less difference.

JKD typically uses Wing Chun style trapping at close / trapping range, and even that's fairly modified from traditional Wing Chun.

At medium / boxing range, we typically use (guess what) western boxing.

Kicks are used at long / kicking range.

I'm sure others will give a more in depth analysis.


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## punisher73

DoubleZ711 said:


> Don't flame me please!!!
> 
> How does this Martial Art compare with Wing Chun in terms of pure self-defense and effectiveness? The only reason I wouldn't want to take something simpler like karate or taekwondo is because most of the moves they teach don't really seem to be useful in a real life situation, but then again, I am only a boxer, which can hardly be considered a real martial art, so I may be wrong. Anyways, I could lie and say that I am not at all fascinated by this art simply because of Bruce Lee, but that would of course.. be a lie.
> 
> However, I am thinking of starting an MA pretty soon and I am thinking of either this or Wing Chun.
> 
> If one of you guys has the time, can you please tell me the MAJOR differences between the two? I don't need to know slightly insignificant stuff like where it was founded and by whom etc...
> 
> Anyways, Thanks!!


 
Wing Chun was Bruce Lee's base style when he created JKD.  Depending on the school and it they are from the 'original' or 'concepts' camps will depend on how much Wing Chun you will see in the approach. 

I guess the bigger question is what are your goals?  JKD might fit better with your boxing background, but if you are looking for a 'traditional' art than Wing Chun would be a good route.  I think that if both are trained correctly they can be effective, so go and visit both schools and see which one fits you better.


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## geezer

punisher73 said:


> I guess the bigger question is what are your goals? JKD might fit better with your boxing background, but if you are looking for a 'traditional' art than Wing Chun would be a good route. *I think that if both are trained correctly they can be effective, so go and visit both schools and see which one fits you better.*


 
That's very well put. Ultimately, isn't JKD about being able to express your MA as naturally as you breathe? If you find that fit in Wing Chun, it can eventually become your JKD. Otherwise, explore until you find the mix that does fit. Since this is part of the philosophy of JKD, a good JKD school would be a great place to start. (And BTW, I'm a Wing Tsun guy... but not exclusively so!).


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## Tez3

Not a flame but I do despair whenever a thread title says ....v.... !


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## Hagakure

Tez3 said:


> Not a flame but I do despair whenever a thread title says ....v.... !




Why, I've never known you shy away from a good argument?  

Besides, everyone knows Wing Chun is better.


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## Xue Sheng

Tez3 said:


> Not a flame but I do despair whenever a thread title says ....v.... !


 
"Compared to" might have been a better choice 

but ....v.... is just asking for
 verkill:


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## AceHBK

punisher73 said:


> Wing Chun was Bruce Lee's base style when he created JKD.  Depending on the school and it they are from the 'original' or 'concepts' camps will depend on how much Wing Chun you will see in the approach.



Now what is the difference between 'original' and 'concepts'?

I have seen schools use one of the 2 words.  I have always wondered what is the difference.


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## joeygil

Original = what Sijo Bruce Lee taught during his life.

Concepts incorporates other martial arts (Kali, Muay Thai, etc) and is associated with Sifu Dan Inosanto's teaching.


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## punisher73

joeygil said:


> Original = what Sijo Bruce Lee taught during his life.
> 
> Concepts incorporates other martial arts (Kali, Muay Thai, etc) and is associated with Sifu Dan Inosanto's teaching.


 
To expand a little further, the "original" approach to JKD is heavily influenced by Bruce Lee's Jun Fan Gung Fu which was his actual system that he created.  There was a specific curriuculum and progression that students would learn as far as techniques and drills.  Even Dan Inosanto teaches the Jun Fan before introducing students to the other styles (as I have understood it).

As joeygil states, the "concepts" approach is using the concepts and ideas of JKD and applies them to whatever arts the instructor teaches.  Using Dan Inosanto as an example, he has heavily infused the art with filipino martial arts, and now Muay Thai and BJJ as well.  These arts were not taught by Bruce Lee and this is why there is a split among the camps as to what is "closer" to what JKD is and should be.


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## Tez3

Hagakure said:


> Why, I've never known you shy away from a good argument?
> 
> Besides, everyone knows Wing Chun is better.


 
Hey I'm a Scorpio female, what can I say!

I've never practised a CMA but am hugely interested in all martial arts. I beleive too that CMAs are the 'daddy' of the other arts we do.

Whin Chun is fine as long as the whole words are used, I cannot take it seriously when it's abbreviated to WC.


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## geezer

Tez3 said:


> Whin Chun is fine as long as the whole words are used, I cannot take it seriously when it's abbreviated to WC.



A lot of us Yanks won't get your reference (WC = Limey dialect for toilet, head, crapper, porcelain throne, etc.), but remember, they use that term in Hong Kong too! That was one reason Leung Ting chose to call his branch "WT". It's true, I heard him say so myself. That's another benefit of JKD. I can't think of anything funny about the name.


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## Tez3

geezer said:


> A lot of us Yanks won't get your reference (WC = *Limey dialect* for toilet, head, crapper, porcelain throne, etc.), but remember, they use that term in Hong Kong too! That was one reason Leung Ting chose to call his branch "WT". It's true, I heard him say so myself. That's another benefit of JKD. I can't think of anything funny about the name.


 
Not a dialect word, it's actually an official word used on the doors of public lavatories and on maps, tourist guides, property descriptions, hotels, ads etc. It stands for water closet and is correct usage in many official places.


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## Tez3

Ok now I'm confused. My first action on logging onto MT is to go to the 'new in the last 24 posts' bit and as I scroll down there's thread 'JKD v Whin Chun' only it hasn't got the little symbol on that means I posted on it and there's only a couple of posts, it's also in the JKD part of the forum. The OP is exactly the same as this one.

Why duplicate a thread word for word?


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## Hagakure

Tez3 said:


> Ok now I'm confused. My first action on logging onto MT is to go to the 'new in the last 24 posts' bit and as I scroll down there's thread 'JKD v Whin Chun' only it hasn't got the little symbol on that means I posted on it and there's only a couple of posts, it's also in the JKD part of the forum. The OP is exactly the same as this one.
> 
> Why duplicate a thread word for word?


 
Think the OP posted this in both the _Whin_ Chun and the JKD forum, presumably thinking to get the views of both, without realising that only one thread was necessary.

Why DO you write "Whin Chun"?


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## Xue Sheng

Tez3 said:


> Ok now I'm confused. My first action on logging onto MT is to go to the 'new in the last 24 posts' bit and as I scroll down there's thread 'JKD v Whin Chun' only it hasn't got the little symbol on that means I posted on it and there's only a couple of posts, it's also in the JKD part of the forum. The OP is exactly the same as this one.
> 
> Why duplicate a thread word for word?


 
I don't know you could always copy and paste this over there and ask


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## Hagakure

Xue Sheng said:


> I don't know you could always copy and paste this over there and ask


 
Ooooh, you little devil you.


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## Sandstorm

DoubleZ711 said:


> Don't flame me please!!!
> 
> How does this Martial Art compare with Wing Chun in terms of pure self-defense and effectiveness? The only reason I wouldn't want to take something simpler like karate or taekwondo is because most of the moves they teach don't really seem to be useful in a real life situation, but then again, I am only a boxer, which can hardly be considered a real martial art, so I may be wrong. Anyways, I could lie and say that I am not at all fascinated by this art simply because of Bruce Lee, but that would of course.. be a lie.
> 
> However, I am thinking of starting an MA pretty soon and I am thinking of either this or Wing Chun.
> 
> If one of you guys has the time, can you please tell me the MAJOR differences between the two? I don't need to know slightly insignificant stuff like where it was founded and by whom etc...
> 
> Anyways, Thanks!!


 

Major differences......

Wing Chun= System

JKD= Concept

You can't compare the two or have them do battle because one is a 'system' and the other is ones' own personal approach to MA. JKD is all about finding what works for the individual and is open to all techniques from any style/system that works for YOU. Wing Chun is a system with set moves and applications and, depending on the teacher, sticks to its groundings. There are, of course, Wing Chun instructors who expand the syllabus to incorporate stuff like groundwork, but that's another story.

If you are serious about any art, just go along and see how you get on with the training and the instructor. Doesn't matter what style it is on the posters, get in the dojo and see for yourself.

Hope this helps


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## Pancake85

i think that ultimately wing chun is the way to go. however it is very difficult to find a qualified wing chun teacher who is not opening up another 'mcdojo'.

bruce lee created his own style because he was not qualified to teach wing chun (being a mid level student in terms of knowledge of the concepts). despite jkd being more primitive than wing chun, most jkd teachers come from competitive sports backgrounds and thus might even make you a more competent fighter


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## DBZ

In my opinion coming from boxing is hard. I came from boxing as well and I had to unlearn alot of really bad habits.


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## simplicity

Jeet Kune Do = Sound principle's that are dissolved over time, at the third stage of cultivation... "IT" is that way ---------------->



Keep "IT" Real,
John McNabney


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## joeygil

Pancake85 said:


> i think that ultimately wing chun is the way to go. however it is very difficult to find a qualified wing chun teacher who is not opening up another 'mcdojo'.
> 
> bruce lee created his own style because he was not qualified to teach wing chun (being a mid level student in terms of knowledge of the concepts). despite jkd being more primitive than wing chun, most jkd teachers come from competitive sports backgrounds and thus might even make you a more competent fighter


 
That seems like a pretty WC biased view of things.  Now here's my JKD biased opinion.

While it's true Sijo Bruce Lee didn't complete his WC training, he did see the deficiencies inherent in the system when it came to going outside of "trapping range" (whether grappling or long/kicking range).  What do you do if your opponent runs back faster than you can shuffle forward and trap, not giving you the trapping structure - or goes of center-line on purpose and shoots in?


He really delved into a lot of other martial arts not often mentioned in the well known JKD "origin story" (consisting of WC, western boxing, fencing).  He brought in Northern Shaolin kicks, chop-chou'i / qua chou'i from Choy Li Fut mixed with Mantis, energy drills from Mantis and Tai Chi, Judo, etc.  At least that's what I heard from Sifu Dan.



That said, I'm pretty sure during Sijo Bruce Lee's life, there were 2 phases to Jeet Kune Do.  First was more of a style (hence Way of the Intercepting Fist) - which was based on...intercepting.  This was where he developed the typical JKD structure - the bai-jong stance, 5 ways of attack, etc.  Prior to his, he was practicing his "Tao of Chinese Gung Fu" - often characterized as modified Wing Chun.  As he continued his studies, he came to the conclusion of having no way as your way, but kept the term "Jeet Kune Do."  At least that's what I've gathered.


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## BLACK LION

Tez3 said:


> Not a dialect word, it's actually an official word used on the doors of public lavatories and on maps, tourist guides, property descriptions, hotels, ads etc. It stands for water closet and is correct usage in many official places.


 
+1   
**************  
As far wich to choose? That is your burden and your path alone to choose my friend.   We can sit here on the net and dish out opinion after opinion on whosits and whatsits aplenty all day...but once you log off and join actuality none of this exists and you are left with your own decisions based on your position in life.   Gather the intel you need to make a choice but relaize things change and JKD today could be Kapap or Hagannah tomorrow and systema in 6 months and so on and so forth.    You may infact never find a home within any particular "system" or "style"... I never have and never will and I dont expect others to put on my pants and walk my walk for me either.   I gather what raw materials I need from reliable sources and forge my own blade in the fire and water of my own path. 

We cant be you and vice versa. You must figure out what your purpose and perception is and progress accordingly. If it does not nourish you then discard it. Dont become delusional and think there is one source for nourishment just becuase its plentiful either. 

Respect to all of you 

thats my rant for the day
Cheers everyone


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## Tez3

BLACK LION said:


> +1
> **************
> As far wich to choose? That is your burden and your path alone to choose my friend. We can sit here on the net and dish out opinion after opinion on whosits and whatsits aplenty all day...but once you log off and join actuality none of this exists and you are left with your own decisions based on your position in life. Gather the intel you need to make a choice but relaize things change and JKD today could be Kapap or Hagannah tomorrow and systema in 6 months and so on and so forth. You may infact never find a home within any particular "system" or "style"... I never have and never will and I dont expect others to put on my pants and walk my walk for me either. I gather what raw materials I need from reliable sources and forge my own blade in the fire and water of my own path.
> 
> We cant be you and vice versa. You must figure out what your purpose and perception is and progress accordingly. If it does not nourish you then discard it. Dont become delusional and think there is one source for nourishment just becuase its plentiful either.
> 
> Respect to all of you
> 
> thats my rant for the day
> Cheers everyone


 
Excuse me? I'm sorry I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about and why you are addressing me!


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## dnovice

I'm sorry my friend but for this post...

:flame:
:wuguns:
verkill:
you get the thriple flame. overkill... absolutely.


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## Tez3

And who's that one for?


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## suicide

this sord of like the post that says judo vs jujitsu it depends on the person executing the art on how effective he is :angel:


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## kalel21j7

I'm glad someone asked this question because I myself am having difficulty choosing. I mean yes I do very much love JKD, but people often right comments that is off putting like the fact that JKD has alot of structural weakness and a good WC would be more efficient in his system than a JKD student. or that JKD students are less knowledgeable for the fact that the have no idea about tecnique, sensitivity, structure, usage etc etc.


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## arnisador

Both are good, but having done both I have to say that the "aliveness" of JKD, and it's concern with a wider variety of possible attacks, has a lot to offer. That having been said, WC is great and I'd still be studying it if I could. It greatly improved by JKD, for one thing!


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## geezer

arnisador said:


> Both are good, but having done both I have to say that the "aliveness" of JKD, and it's concern with a wider variety of possible attacks, has a lot to offer. That having been said, WC is great and I'd still be studying it if I could. It greatly improved my JKD, for one thing!




Well put. Now forgive my impertinence, since I'm a _chunner_, and just visiting here. But since this _is_ the JKD forum, shouldn't the question be, "How much WC do you use in your JKD?". Do you do a lot of chi-sau, trapping, and very close range stand-up work? Or do you emphasize other ranges and approaches?


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## arnisador

Moving _between_ ranges is a big emphasis, but there is a fair amount of trapping. There's a lot of boxing for hand techniques. No chi sau. There's also a good amount of Kali in the mix.


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## zepedawingchun

joeygil said:


> That seems like a pretty WC biased view of things. Now here's my JKD biased opinion.
> 
> While it's true Sijo Bruce Lee didn't complete his WC training, he did see the deficiencies inherent in the system when it came to going outside of "trapping range" (whether grappling or long/kicking range). What do you do if your opponent runs back faster than you can shuffle forward and trap, not giving you the trapping structure - or goes of center-line on purpose and shoots in?
> 
> 
> He really delved into a lot of other martial arts not often mentioned in the well known JKD "origin story" (consisting of WC, western boxing, fencing). He brought in Northern Shaolin kicks, chop-chou'i / qua chou'i from Choy Li Fut mixed with Mantis, energy drills from Mantis and Tai Chi, Judo, etc. At least that's what I heard from Sifu Dan.


 
Sounds like a Bruce Lee bias view of things.  Why not something closer to the truth.  Bruce Lee was an exceptional martial artist, but he was only human. His Wing Chun was far from complete, having only SNT, Chum Kiu, and very little of the wooden dummy sets.  Only enough to classify him as an intermediate student at best.  So the deficiencies Bruce saw were not that of the Wing Chun system, but actually of himself.  His lack of skill and knowledge of Wing Chun did not give him the tools to handle opponents 'outside the trapping range' or 'running backwards faster than he could shuffle forwards' or from 'going off center-line on purpose and shoots in' as you say.  Wing Chun has the knowledge and ability to handle those situations (what makes you think it doesn't), but it's up to the practitioner to do it and make it happen.  At Bruce Lee's skill level, he didn't have the WC knowledge of how to handle those situations yet.

It's always easier to blame someone or something else for our own inadequacies rather than ourselves for our lack of knowledge or skill.
Because Bruce Lee lacked the knowledge of the complete Wing Chun system, and from everything we've heard, Bruce would most likely not get it through the Yip Man family line, plus there was no other Wing Chun available to him at that time, he went outside of Wing Chun to find another way.

If you don't believe me, go to Hawkins Cheung Sifu's website and read up on what he has to say about Bruce Lee and Wing Chun.
http://www.hawkinscheung.com/

Also, ask Sifu Dan Inosanto if he thinks Sifu Francis Fong (and people in his lineage) has problems dealing with opponents running away, or moving off center to enter.


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## Robert Lee

It becomes easy to say this and that. JKD or Wing chun, has no set goal to prove. The person is more important then a name. What that person does is his way. What a person was able to do  at a certion time does not mean that the person did not become much better. Bruces name is used  in many ways good and bad. He was a Man who tried to better his self. And perhaps helped others to find there path. Not the best, not the worst. JKD has its its roots in Wing Chun. BUT it went beyond Wing chun  What a person does Has NO name in doing, Just a name creates a path to learn by.  JKD , wing chun Is the path. You are the delivery Of your expression


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## Domino

kalel21j7 said:


> I'm glad someone asked this question because I myself am having difficulty choosing. I mean yes I do very much love JKD, but people often right comments that is off putting like the fact that JKD has alot of structural weakness and a good WC would be more efficient in his system than a JKD student. or that JKD students are less knowledgeable for the fact that the have no idea about tecnique, sensitivity, structure, usage etc etc.



JKD is a philosophy.
I thought the weakness' in wing chun were the reasons why Bruce looked to patch them up.

Bruce said
_"I have not invented a "new style," composite, modified or otherwise that is set within distinct form as apart from "this" method or "that" method. On the contrary, I hope to free my followers from clinging to styles, patterns, or molds. Remember that Jeet Kune Do is merely a name used, a mirror in which to see "ourselves". . . Jeet Kune Do is not an organized institution that one can be a member of. Either you understand or you don't, and that is that. There is no mystery about my style. My movements are simple, direct and non-classical. The extraordinary part of it lies in its simplicity. Every movement in Jeet Kune-Do is being so of itself. There is nothing artificial about it. I always believe that the easy way is the right way. *Jeet Kune-Do is simply the direct expression of one's feelings with the minimum of movements and energy.* The closer to the true way of Kung Fu, the less wastage of expression there is. Finally, a Jeet Kune Do man who says Jeet Kune Do is exclusively Jeet Kune Do is simply not with it. He is still hung up on his self-closing resistance, in this case anchored down to reactionary pattern, and naturally is still bound by another modified pattern and can move within its limits. He has not digested the simple fact that truth exists outside all molds; pattern and awareness is never exclusive. Again let me remind you Jeet Kune Do is just a name used, a boat to get one across, and once across it is to be discarded and not to be carried on one's back."_


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## zepedawingchun

Robert Lee said:


> . . . . JKD has its its roots in Wing Chun. BUT it went beyond Wing chun What a person does Has NO name in doing, Just a name creates a path to learn by. JKD , wing chun Is the path. You are the delivery Of your expression


 
JKD has it's roots in Wing Chun, yes, but it didn't go beyond it.  JKD went beyond *Bruce Lee's* knowledge and understanding of Wing Chun.  Bruce only knew or had half of the the Wing Chun system.  How can you claim something has flaws or shortcomings when you don't know everything there is to it.  The purpose of WC and JKD is the same, to use as little effort as needed (energy, power, technique, etc.) to defeat your opponent.  To be as efficient and direct as possible and to express it your way. Period.  Bruce did exactly what the monks did about 350 years ago.  His product is JKD and theirs is Wing Chun.  Bruce devised JKD to prove to Yip Man and the Wing Chun family he could reach the higher levels of skill in combat, to defeat any opponent, without his knowledge of the complete Wing Chun system.


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## Robert Lee

zepedawingchun said:


> JKD has it's roots in Wing Chun, yes, but it didn't go beyond it. JKD went beyond *Bruce Lee's* knowledge and understanding of Wing Chun. Bruce only knew or had half of the the Wing Chun system. How can you claim something has flaws or shortcomings when you don't know everything there is to it. The purpose of WC and JKD is the same, to use as little effort as needed (energy, power, technique, etc.) to defeat your opponent. To be as efficient and direct as possible and to express it your way. Period. Bruce did exactly what the monks did about 350 years ago. His product is JKD and theirs is Wing Chun. Bruce devised JKD to prove to Yip Man and the Wing Chun family he could reach the higher levels of skill in combat, to defeat any opponent, without his knowledge of the complete Wing Chun system.


 One have you ever trained JKD. Jkd is an expression. exceprts from wing chun. fencing and western boxing.  Remember the cup of tea. Perhaps yours is over filled to see beyond Wing Chun.


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## Glycerine0160

I was talking to my friend about this.


He first took the jkd side in saying a wing chunner may think they are adapting to a new situation or style by finding answers in their techniques, but really they are not changing anything. They are just using a different "strategy".


JKD is not subject to such things like only linear motion.



The next day though he came up to me and told me the whole idea was impossible,  JKD is a philsophy, and wing chun is an art. You can't even compare them.


I see his point.


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## zepedawingchun

Robert Lee said:


> One have you ever trained JKD. Jkd is an expression. exceprts from wing chun. fencing and western boxing. Remember the cup of tea. Perhaps yours is over filled to see beyond Wing Chun.


 
I trained JKD from 1983 - 1985.  I have also attended many of the JKD Concepts seminars given by Guru Dan Inosanto over the past 25 years, through the Francis Fong Martial Arts Academy.  Sifu Francis Fong is the southeastern JKD representitive for Guru Dan Inosanto and JKD Concepts in the US.  It is also part of the FFMAA curriculum.  Perhaps you need to train in a legitimate Wing Chun school and see there's more to it than Bruce Lee knew.  See the website for details:

www.francisfongacademy.com


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## Robert Lee

zepedawingchun said:


> I trained JKD from 1983 - 1985. I have also attended many of the JKD Concepts seminars given by Guru Dan Inosanto over the past 25 years, through the Francis Fong Martial Arts Academy. Sifu Francis Fong is the southeastern JKD representitive for Guru Dan Inosanto and JKD Concepts in the US. It is also part of the FFMAA curriculum. Perhaps you need to train in a legitimate Wing Chun school and see there's more to it than Bruce Lee knew. See the website for details:
> 
> www.francisfongacademy.com


  I do not need to train in a Wing chun School. You may very well enjoy Wing chun. BUT no art is complete. IF this was so then only 1 way would be the truth. Bruce did not complete His wing Chun training. BUT that does not limit his ability. And yes francis Fong Must of felt JKD had something to offer Or he would not have looked into it. You chose W C in the end AND feel its your method fine but each will find there needs As each art has a core value And that alone is all that needs trained NOT the complete system. But thats my thought


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## zepedawingchun

Robert Lee said:


> I do not need to train in a Wing chun School. You may very well enjoy Wing chun. BUT no art is complete. IF this was so then only 1 way would be the truth. Bruce did not complete His wing Chun training. BUT that does not limit his ability. And yes francis Fong Must of felt JKD had something to offer Or he would not have looked into it. You chose W C in the end AND feel its your method fine but each will find there needs As each art has a core value And that alone is all that needs trained NOT the complete system. But thats my thought


 
See my PM for a reply. My I ask from who's JKD lineage you derive your training from?  Thanks for an entertaining debate.


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## rooke

In no way am I saying Wing Chun is superior or inferior to JKD. But I disagree with the arguments being used.

People are stopping the argument with Bruce Lee. The real question is with the concepts group, after Bruce's passing, how much >MORE< of the Wing Chun curriculum/methods did they add to THEIR JKD...along with Muay Thai, Kali, etc.

And after Bruce's passing, how much of his methods were incorporated into Wing Chun? 

Rooke


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## zepedawingchun

rooke said:


> And after Bruce's passing, how much of his methods were incorporated into Wing Chun? Rooke


 
Can you elaborate? What '*methods*' might you be thinking about that came from Bruce that Wing Chun uses?


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## rooke

History in martial arts has a tendency to change. But I've heard a couple of well-known Wing Chun exponents say that Wing Chun DOES have mobile footwork...Bruce just never reached a high enough level to learn it. Suddenly, after Bruce dies, there are alot of "We always had that.".

Now MAYBE WC does. It makes sense. But the question is, did this show up AFTER Bruce's passing?

Wing Chun is a succinct, compact, and dynamic set of principles for combat. Its very elegant. But this also means it can be altered to suit new ideas. Its not a rigid and dead system. At least that's how I view it. So folks have taken bits of other ideas and incorporated them. After all, there's a reason why the different branches from Yip Man all look so differently. They took different information from him, and added their own interpretation and twist. As a result, there will be influences from other people.

But its my current opinion based on what I've read. 

Rooke


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## zepedawingchun

rooke said:


> History in martial arts has a tendency to change. But I've heard a couple of well-known Wing Chun exponents say that Wing Chun DOES have mobile footwork...Bruce just never reached a high enough level to learn it.


 
I can't speak for anyone in the Yip Man lineage, but our lineage has always had mobile footwork.  However, it is believed you should not move unless you have to, economy of motion.  Moving for the sake of moving is not suggested. 




rooke said:


> Now MAYBE WC does. It makes sense. But the question is, did this show up AFTER Bruce's passing?


 
No.  It was always there.



rooke said:


> Wing Chun is a succinct, compact, and dynamic set of principles for combat. Its very elegant. But this also means it can be altered to suit new ideas. Its not a rigid and dead system. At least that's how I view it.


 
True.


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## James Kovacich

zepedawingchun said:


> JKD has it's roots in Wing Chun, yes, but it didn't go beyond it. JKD went beyond *Bruce Lee's* knowledge and understanding of Wing Chun. Bruce only knew or had half of the the Wing Chun system. How can you claim something has flaws or shortcomings when you don't know everything there is to it. The purpose of WC and JKD is the same, to use as little effort as needed (energy, power, technique, etc.) to defeat your opponent. To be as efficient and direct as possible and to express it your way. Period. Bruce did exactly what the monks did about 350 years ago. His product is JKD and theirs is Wing Chun. Bruce devised JKD to prove to Yip Man and the Wing Chun family he could reach the higher levels of skill in combat, to defeat any opponent, without his knowledge of the complete Wing Chun system.


 
Bruce was 18 years old with approx. 5 years Wing Chun training when he came to america. There was no continuing in WC as an option. Bruces notorious fight in Oakland left Bruce questioning "Bruces Wing Chun" not necesarily the portion that he had not learned. 

Their are many of us that our JKD is more like WCJKD than most LA-JKD. Thats the way it filtered from Bruce to Jimmy to my Sigung and Sifu (father and son). A big differance between JKD and WC is JKD is not a fixed curriculum like WC although many will argue that point. 

The WC-JKD base is only the beginning. Jeet Kune Do's end result should be differant for all. That explains why JKD is differant and hard to define. I'd like to know why Wing Chun is so differant amonst so many of the popular instructors.


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## chinaboxer

this is an interesting question, since i've been doing both for a very long time, i'll add my 2cents...

start with a solid Wing Chun Foundation and really learn the "body structure" and "why" the movements work.

after this foundation, go and learn Jun Fan JKD and start creating your own "suit" instead of trying to fit into Bruce Lee's suit, or Dan Inosanto's suit, or Ted Wong's suit or anyone else's...

this means that you have to understand the "concepts and principles" of what makes the wing chun structure work BEFORE you start modifying it.

i have a weekly tutorial on Chinese Boxing for those interested at www.thechinaboxer.com

about me...

I have been at the martial arts for over twenty years. Martial Arts has always been an integral part of my life, which began at the age of twelve. My thirst for knowledge has led me to seek out several amazing martial arts instructors and I continue to train, learn and grow; while sharing what works for me with the martial arts community. I have been fortunate enough to train with some great instructors and owe all of my knowledge to them..." I can see far only because I stand on the shoulders of these giants".

- Wing Chun - Hawkins Cheung, Gary Lam
- Jun Fan Jeet Kune Do - Dan Inosanto, Yori Nakamura, Jerry Poteet, Dan   Sullivan
- Brazilian Jujitsu - Marcus Vinicius, Lars Wallin
- Shoot Fighting - Yori Nakamura
- Muay Thai / Kickboxing - Benny "the jet" Urquidez, Josh Robinson
- Wrestling - Bryce Karasawa

take care and peace!

Jin


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## James Kovacich

I'd agree because of the way that I was trained but many will not. And some will argue that starting at "the end" is the right path.


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## chinaboxer

James Kovacich said:


> I'd agree because of the way that I was trained but many will not. And some will argue that starting at "the end" is the right path.


starting at the end is like only seeing the "tip of the iceburg" and trying to copy it. but not understanding the huge "body of ice" that supports that tip. People see Bruce Lee's method and try to "copy" his end result, but don't realize the "huge" body of knowledge that led to what everyone sees. in other words, you can't let something go if you don't have it in the first place. anyways, that's my 2cents. i say start at the beginning which is the wing chun structure and why it works.


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## jkd friend

chinaboxer said:


> starting at the end is like only seeing the "tip of the iceburg" and trying to copy it. but not understanding the huge "body of ice" that supports that tip. People see Bruce Lee's method and try to "copy" his end result, but don't realize the "huge" body of knowledge that led to what everyone sees. in other words, you can't let something go if you don't have it in the first place. anyways, that's my 2cents. i say start at the beginning which is the wing chun structure and why it works.



I agree, theirs a reason why wing chun is the foundation of JKD through all the arts and concepts Bruce Lee studied.


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