# What Is Your Plan When The **** Hits The Fan??????



## Brian R. VanCise (Apr 8, 2015)

Thought I would direct you to my latest blog post.  Hopefully it will generate some critical thought on self-defense and personal protection in your life.  That and some discussion.....

The Instinctive Edge

Note: due to the word **** in the link it will not directly link to that blog post.  So because I continually blog just go the page and either scroll down or search for it on my blog utillizing the search function!  Thanks


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## jezr74 (Apr 8, 2015)

Brian R. VanCise said:


> Thought I would direct you to my latest blog post.  Hopefully it will generate some critical thought on self-defense and personal protection in your life.  That and some discussion.....
> 
> The Instinctive Edge



Broken link mate.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Apr 8, 2015)

Here is the link and I will correct it above:

 The Instinctive Edge Ancient Origins Modern Applications


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## Tez3 (Apr 8, 2015)

What Is Your Plan When The **** Hits The Fan??????

Blame someone else and run away.


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## Touch Of Death (Apr 8, 2015)

Tez3 said:


> What Is Your Plan When The **** Hits The Fan??????
> 
> Blame someone else and run away.


Yes, I was thinking, lie like a dog, myself.


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## elder999 (Apr 8, 2015)

I usually skip the pistol: the shotgun is that close, so that's what I go to.

Back in New York, I had two break ins while at home. Went for the shotgun, racked the slide and said (lying at the top of the stairs) _Get out of my hourse, or *I will shoot you!*_, all while dialing the police.

They ran. Both times.

"The *KERCHUCK!* of death." Gotta love it.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





Actual "plans" have evolved since then, to include kids, and not, to include guns, and not, and from house to house. 

These days, I rather pity anyone who tries-we're all old and cranky here-there is no warning *KERCHUCK!* anymore, or warning for that 0230 scenario of yours. We'll call the cops, but get past the outside dog, enter the sight window, and you're gonna get shot.


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## Dirty Dog (Apr 8, 2015)

Depends on the variety of fecal matter and the details of the rotary atmospheric displacement device.
For the classic thump in the middle of the night... well, right next to my bed is a rapid access safe containing a suppressed (it's bad manners to disturb the neighbors) Glock 41.


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## Orange Lightning (Apr 8, 2015)

Brian R. VanCise said:


> Thought I would direct you to my latest blog post.  Hopefully it will generate some critical thought on self-defense and personal protection in your life.  That and some discussion.....
> 
> The Instinctive Edge



I am out of luck. 

I have various potent things in my bedroom (an inexpensive but battle ready katana, a bokken, nunchuks, a walking stick, tonfas, and knives), but nothing that beats a gun. I have weapons stashed throughout my house, but again, they aren't guns. I wouldn't say I'm in too much danger where I live, but I would still prefer to have one. I would need to rely on surprise and silence. Odds are though, those are going to be my enemy's advantages.


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## Orange Lightning (Apr 8, 2015)

Brian R. VanCise said:


> Thought I would direct you to my latest blog post.  Hopefully it will generate some critical thought on self-defense and personal protection in your life.  That and some discussion.....
> 
> The Instinctive Edge



I thought it was going to be about, like, the government collapsing, the zombie apocalypse, etc. xD I swear, that are going to be dead people hold crowbars everywhere.  This makes way more sense.


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## drop bear (Apr 8, 2015)

I don't really have the stuff or the lifestyle to warrant getting home invaded.


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## Dirty Dog (Apr 8, 2015)

If you think only the rich get attacked, then you need to wake up and smell the crime stats. 



Sent from an old fashioned 300 baud acoustic modem by whistling into the handset. Really.


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## drop bear (Apr 8, 2015)

Dirty Dog said:


> If you think only the rich get attacked, then you need to wake up and smell the crime stats.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from an old fashioned 300 baud acoustic modem by whistling into the handset. Really.



Well the rich and drug dealers. Nobody is coming to kick my door in for my playstation 360.


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## Drose427 (Apr 8, 2015)

drop bear said:


> Well the rich and drug dealers. Nobody is coming to kick my door in for my playstation 360.



Did you go to college? Thats the one of most common thing stolen from dorms\apartments

Electronics in general are some of the first things that theives are gona take if they can...

They arent just looking for house safes and jewelery.

Youre lucky you apparently live in a low crime area, but the idea that youre safe from it really isnt right.


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## drop bear (Apr 9, 2015)

Drose427 said:


> Did you go to college? Thats the one of most common thing stolen from dorms\apartments
> 
> Electronics in general are some of the first things that theives are gona take if they can...
> 
> ...



If it is a choice between killing someone in my lounge room and letting them have my X box?

They can have the X box.


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## RTKDCMB (Apr 9, 2015)

drop bear said:


> I don't really have the stuff or the lifestyle to warrant getting home invaded.


But do they know that?


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## RTKDCMB (Apr 9, 2015)

Clean up, buy new fan.


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## Flatfish (Apr 9, 2015)

That would be wasteful....


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## drop bear (Apr 9, 2015)

RTKDCMB said:


> But do they know that?



Seriously. I don't know about about other countries but here if someone has gone to the effort of kicking in your door and doing a home invasion. You generally have deserved it. It means you are selling drugs. Are invoked in gangs or slept with someone's girlfriend.

But if you are really concerned. One thing nobody mentioned in all the guns and dogs and other ninja stuff.

Buy a lock.


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## elder999 (Apr 9, 2015)

drop bear said:


> Seriously. I don't know about about other countries but here if someone has gone to the effort of kicking in your door and doing a home invasion. You generally have deserved it. It means you are selling drugs. Are invoked in gangs or slept with someone's girlfriend.
> 
> But if you are really concerned. One thing nobody mentioned in all the guns and dogs and other ninja stuff.
> 
> Buy a lock.



These people, and more, all had locks.

Arrest in home invasion Ocala.com

Fitchburg police probe armed home invasion - Sentinel Enterprise

Suspects in Gatineau home robbery armed with shotgun hammer - Yahoo News Canada

Google
(About 21,000,000 results (0.44 seconds)

Home invasion - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia


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## hoshin1600 (Apr 9, 2015)

drop bear said:


> Seriously. I don't know about about other countries but here if someone has gone to the effort of kicking in your door and doing a home invasion. You generally have deserved it. It means you are selling drugs. Are invoked in gangs or slept with someone's girlfriend.
> 
> But if you are really concerned. One thing nobody mentioned in all the guns and dogs and other ninja stuff.
> 
> Buy a lock.



By definition a home invasion is when you are home so a lock isn't going to help. They con you to open the door then rush in. On thing to consider is that things are different in different parts of the country or the world. And everyone will have different circumstances that they have to live in.  I have posted on this before and people here seem to dismiss my posts but less then 20 min from my house there was two men who picked their target at the grocery store and followed them home. Knocked on the door and when the husband opened the door they beat him with a baseball bat, tied him in the basement. Then proceeded to rape his wife and his 11 and 15 year old daughters for a period of 6 hours. The girls where all tied to beds and the men poured gasoline over them and set them on fire.

Why.....because they wanted to. No more no less..they wanted to.
So much for the excuse of people deserving it.
Drop bear you rally need to rethink your post and except that there are bad people in the world and that your reality may not hold true for everyone.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Apr 9, 2015)

Hey Drop Bear,

Violence happens pretty much everywhere and as mentioned above PS4 and Xbox, laptops, etc. are high on the list for easily fenced goods.  I did one quickly search of home invasions in Australia and came up with this news article.  I have no knowledge of this paper so it could be bunk but probably not.  It talks about "home invasions" in Sydney being a new fad.

No Cookies dailytelegraph.com.au


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## K-man (Apr 9, 2015)

hoshin1600 said:


> Drop bear you rally need to rethink your post and except that there are bad people in the world and that your reality may not hold true for everyone.


I'm sure that *Drop Bea*r was not denying the reality of violence in other countries. Basically he was saying that in Australia there is less of that sort of thing than elsewhere and in fact the are few statistics to even find out what the frequency would be. They are simply classed as robberies. Some of them may even be 'aggravated burglary'. The fact remains here that if you are not involved with drugs or criminals the chances of home invasion are relatively slim. 



Brian R. VanCise said:


> I did one quickly search of home invasions in Australia and came up with this news article.  I have no knowledge of this paper so it could be bunk but probably not.  It talks about "home invasions" in Sydney being a new fad.
> 
> No Cookies dailytelegraph.com.au


I don't think it's bunk but I do think it is a media driven situation. I think I need to refer back to Mark Twain to clarify my position .... "lies, damned lies, and statistics." You can use figures to 'prove' anything, or at least make a case. 

So, while I acknowledge someone may storm into my home one day (or night), I think there are many easier places to choose from a bad guy's perspective. Between me and my dogs and a few bits of wood lying around I don't feel at all vulnerable.


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## hoshin1600 (Apr 9, 2015)

Hey K-Man,
My point was that depending on where you live this may or may not be your reality. I am not saying reality VS fantasy. But that my reality here in the part of MASSACHUSETTS that I live in will be different that what other people will have as theirs.  I just find that many people think what is valid for them somehow applies to everyone.  You can't just post that anyone who has experienced  a home invasion deserves it and buy a lock as a magic cure and expect that people will not be offended.


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## K-man (Apr 9, 2015)

hoshin1600 said:


> Hey K-Man,
> My point was that depending on where you live this may or may not be your reality. I am not saying reality VS fantasy. But that my reality here in the part of MASSACHUSETTS that I live in will be different that what other people will have as theirs.  I just find that many people think what is valid for them somehow applies to everyone.  You can't just post that anyone who has experienced  a home invasion deserves it and buy a lock as a magic cure and expect that people will not be offended.


I accept your point and I agree with it totally. Maybe some places a lock would do the trick. Certainly in some apartment buildings that may be the case. At my place a stronger lock would do nothing as anyone could just break a window.

In Australia we read regularly where some old person has been terrorised in his/her home and obviously that wasn't deserved and I would in no way suggest that it would be in your area either. However we do have a situation in Australia at present where we have a lot of immigrants and refugees who have brought a lot of their past problems with them. They seem to be over represented in the crime figures and because they are living in the lower socio-economic areas of our major cities those areas are more likely to be targeted. We also have the situation where we seem to have 'gangs' setting and getting involved in the drug scene. A lot of the burglaries or invasions, as a Drop Bear alluded, are where there have been drug debts or other gang related issues. 

We have no understanding of the problems you guys experience beyond what we read in the papers or you guys tell us on the forum and from those sources it would seem that you guys have a much more violent society than we have.


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## Tgace (Apr 9, 2015)

Certainty, a home invasion style robbery can and does happen to some "normal" people. Often to elderly persons.

But, most of em happen to people in "the game". Or happen to people who make very poor choices in associates.....

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2


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## RTKDCMB (Apr 10, 2015)

drop bear said:


> Seriously. I don't know about about other countries but here if someone has gone to the effort of kicking in your door and doing a home invasion. You generally have deserved it. It means you are selling drugs. Are invoked in gangs or slept with someone's girlfriend.



A few years ago my 80 year old aunty's home was invaded by a man who held her at knife point and tried to rape her until she turned his own knife against him I am pretty sure she did not sell drugs, become involved with gangs or sleep with anyone's girlfriend.



drop bear said:


> Buy a lock.



Pretty sure she had locks.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Apr 10, 2015)

*No doubt that the media can drive things and or make a situation seem a lot worse than it actually is*.  Whether you live in the United States, Australia, Europe, etc. take some modest precautions coupled with common sense and you probably do not have to worry about violence finding you at home.  Where I live is an affluent suburban area and yet there is some minor crime all around us. (petty thievery)  Mostly it happens when someone leaves a car door open, garage open, etc.  Next thing you know an opportunistic criminal has stolen some thing.  Does not happen very often but it does happen.  In a city of roughly two million there certainly is a criminal element.  I would agree with Tgace, Kman, DropBear that if you are not in the drug business and or have poor choice in associates your chance of having some thing horrible happen definitely is reduced.  By taking precautions of having an alarm system, good locks, scary but beautiful dog, martial training, firearm training, etc. I have just stacked the deck in my favor.  Am I a target sure.  However, criminals will see my house and think it is a hard target and move along.

Now if you live in a country that has really low crime rates, low break in's etc. still take some prudent precautions.  Kman mentioned above that he has dogs.  If you have good sized dogs that is a *big precaution* and most criminals will just go some place else.  If you live in an apartment make sure you have good locks and lock your door, have an alarm if you can, train in a martial system so you have some skill sets, etc.  Understand the crime rates and what is happening in your area and take prudent precautions. 

In the US the likelihood that your home, apartment, etc. will be invaded is small unless you are as Tgace mentioned in the game or make poor choices with your associates.  Yet, even though it is small, what have you done to reduce the odds? Even more, what have you done to stack the odds in your favor should some thing happen?  The likelihood of having to use my skills is small at this point.  As I am aging and moving into a group that is preyed upon more that could change.  Yet, I train and take precautions so that I present a harder target for the criminal element.

Throughout the course of my life I have lived in the rural countryside on a farm, in cities like Flint, Saginaw, Lansing and of course the inner city of Detroit.  Back out in the middle of nowhere which was beautiful and now in a major metropolitan city of Las Vegas.  Flint and Detroit are real eye opening places to live.  There is certainly danger there and yet they are really cool places to live.  You just have to know what and where to avoid.  What is surprising though to some people is that at least in the US some recent crime statistics actually bear out that there is not actually a lot of differences between crime out in the country and crime in the city.  This was recently reiterated by Michael Bane on the BestDefense show on the outdoor channel. (Though injury leading to death is shown to be higher in the country which can and does skew the statistic)  Unfortunately, in the US crime happens everywhere and at close or similar to the same rates.  I do have a theory on this and would be happy to share it!

*My advice would be to have a worst case scenario plan and hope you never have to use it*.  Yet, have a plan because if some thing "god forbid" does happen you will not freeze up and be able to take care of business.

These links show how crime has fallen in the cities of United States and the current trend:

Study Shows That Cities Are Safer Than Rural Areas Despite Crime TIME.com

City crime country crime The Berkeley Blog

Here is the 2015 Numbeo crime index.  Interesting on the chart you do not want a high number for crime index.  However for safety index you do want a higher number.  Interesting to see where countries line up.

Crime Index by Country 2015


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## drop bear (Apr 10, 2015)

hoshin1600 said:


> Hey K-Man,
> My point was that depending on where you live this may or may not be your reality. I am not saying reality VS fantasy. But that my reality here in the part of MASSACHUSETTS that I live in will be different that what other people will have as theirs.  I just find that many people think what is valid for them somehow applies to everyone.  You can't just post that anyone who has experienced  a home invasion deserves it and buy a lock as a magic cure and expect that people will not be offended.



Ok so we start with the most dramatic form of robbery and counter it with the most dramatic form of protection. Basically ignoring the boring solutions to a whole bunch of more probable scenarios.

So this stops being sensible discussion about home protection.


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## drop bear (Apr 10, 2015)

What s the single best way to prevent a thief from entering your home - HowStuffWorks

I am not the only one who has suggested a lock is a good start.


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## elder999 (Apr 10, 2015)

drop bear said:


> Ok so we start with the most dramatic form of robbery and counter it with the most dramatic form of protection. Basically ignoring the boring solutions to a whole bunch of more probable scenarios.
> 
> So this stops being sensible discussion about home protection.



If they get over the fence, past the dogs, past the alarm and into my home? 

In the past, when I heard the unmistakable sound of the window being broken and the door being kicked in?

*Gun.* What's not sensible about that?


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## drop bear (Apr 10, 2015)

elder999 said:


> If they get over the fence, past the dogs, past the alarm and into my home?
> 
> In the past, when I heard the unmistakable sound of the window being broken and the door being kicked in?
> 
> *Gun.* What's not sensible about that?



How often do you shoot a guy in your house?


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## Brian R. VanCise (Apr 10, 2015)

drop bear said:


> What s the single best way to prevent a thief from entering your home - HowStuffWorks
> 
> I am not the only one who has suggested a lock is a good start.



Good locks are essential.  Utilizing them by locking them are even more important.  At my home we have good locks and also a door bar like this:

Masterlock Security Bar 265DCCSEN - Specialty Safety Security Items - Ace Hardware

These are on all doors including utilized in the sliding door.  While they will not totally stop someone they will certainly slow them down.




drop bear said:


> How often do you shoot a guy in your house?



Hopefully, never!


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## Brian R. VanCise (Apr 10, 2015)

Now, if I showed you how easy it is to break in a home through a door or sliding door or a garage door utilizing the same techniques that professional criminals use you would be amazed at how quickly it can happen.


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## elder999 (Apr 10, 2015)

drop bear said:


> How often do you shoot a guy in your house?



I actually haven't even had occasion to get the gun since moving to New Mexico. I did have one break in, nearly 20 years ago, but we weren't home, and it was likely kids: they took CDs and a guitar, and left a bunch of electronics and guns.....

In New York, I had two incidents I posted about upthread. Like I said, in both cases the intruders had the good sense to flee. I wasn't a drug dealer, I wasn't even peripherally related to any "game." I was a young working man who'd bought a nice home in a Hudson Valley town during the 80's crack epidemic. 

If they'd come up the stairs, I'd have shot them.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Apr 10, 2015)

*Recently here in Las Vegas* my pool guy's house was broken into and looted while we was working.  They took all easily fencible items like electronics, tv, etc.  He lives in just an okay area.  After the break in he became a big believer in security both learning a martial system, firearms (he has one now), good locks (he had serious window and door protection put on), dog, alarm system, etc.  So how did the criminals get in?  *They walked around and through a rock through his patio door!*  He made his house a harder target and I am sure he will have no more problems. (at least I hope so)


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## K-man (Apr 10, 2015)

Perhaps we could look at this from a slightly different perspective. Whenever you look at statistics you have to look behind the figures. For example, in Australia we have had what appears to be an alarming increase in family violence and sexual assault. True, the figures have gone up but the reason they have gone up is that people have been educated to report these offences and not just let them go. 

Another issue is perception. If I believe that the area in which I live is a dangerous place with high levels of violence and the likelihood of physical assault I will change my lifestyle accordingly even if my perception is wrong. There are people living with a fortress mentality that reduces their chance of being robbed or attacked but in the process destroys their quality of life. As in all things, there is a balance.

Like millions of other people I drive a car. There is a fair likelihood that at some time I will have an accident. To this time I have not driven into anyone and three people have driven into me, all from behind and two while I was stationary. Am I worried about it happening again? Not at all. It might or might not happen and if it does happen I wear a seatbelt and I have insurance.

Over the same period, nearly 50 years, I have had three instances where someone has broken into my car, once (not in my neighbourhood), and my home, twice (nothing was taken). On each occasion I wasn't present. Could it happen again? Sure. Am I worried about it happening, no, not beyond taking reasonable precautions and being insured. Does it affect my lifestyle? Not at all.

We do have dogs. Do we have them for protection? No. We have them because we both love German Shepherds. I have spent decades in training and teaching martial arts. Do I do that for protection? Not really. That is a side benefit. I train them because I enjoy the training and the physical challenge.

To return to the OP ... "when the **** hits the fan" I will do whatever is necessary.


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## Tgace (Apr 10, 2015)

Brian R. VanCise said:


> Good locks are essential.  Utilizing them by locking them are even more important.  At my home we have good locks and also a door bar like this:
> 
> Masterlock Security Bar 265DCCSEN - Specialty Safety Security Items - Ace Hardware
> 
> ...



And a part many people miss. Replace the short screws in the lock strike plate (the part on the door frame the bolts go into) with 3" screws that go into the wall studs. They make a huge difference.

How to Reinforce a Deadbolt Lock on Your Home Today s Homeowner


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## Tgace (Apr 10, 2015)

One of the best security systems you can have is alert neighbors who look out for each other.


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## Dirty Dog (Apr 10, 2015)

Tgace said:


> One of the best security systems you can have is alert neighbors who look out for each other.



In our neighborhood, we have exactly 4 houses. One of which is occupied by the guy the rest of us look out for each other because of. He's a complete nutter, and we fully expect to see him on the news one day.
Fortunately, the three sane houses (and yes, in this particular context I consider myself sane...) are all people who can protect themselves. One is a current DOC officer. One is a retired federal agent. And me.
When this guy has been particularly off balance, there have been times when you could find people on the front porch at all three houses, cleaning guns.


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## elder999 (Apr 10, 2015)

K-man said:


> To return to the OP ... "when the **** hits the fan" I will do whatever is necessary.




How do you know "whatever is necessary?"

How do you know you won't waste valuable time cleaning said $h@t off of your face, instead of doing "whatever is necessary?"

In school, didja have fire drills? Air raid drills? 

That's because they had *a plan.* 

A plan-a real one-is much better than, "I will do whatever is necessary," especially given that you  might not really be in your right mind at the time....just sayin'


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## K-man (Apr 10, 2015)

elder999 said:


> How do you know "whatever is necessary?"
> 
> How do you know you won't waste valuable time cleaning said $h@t off of your face, instead of doing "whatever is necessary?"
> 
> ...


Hmm! Fire drills ... twice in sixty six years if I recall correctly. Air raid drill... never. And none of them were at school. I did weather a couple of bomb threats about forty years back but took them for the hoaxes they were. 

So what exactly am I planning for? Some martial art systems have hundreds of responses for all different attacks. I disagree with that philosophy and believe that if you have been trained well you will instinctively respond to any attack in an appropriate way.

In Australia we don't have the access to firearms you do. If an unarmed intruder comes into my home and I used a firearm it would mean both of us being charged. The likelihood of an armed intruder here ... pretty unlikely. Someone comes in with any other weapon, cool, I can handle that. Our home has large windows. Anyone intent on entering can break one and get in no problem. If we are not home off goes the alarm and they have already have to contend with two big dogs. If they hang around they will be caught, if they take anything, it's insured.

We live in a free country with enormous privileges. In the U.S. you might call them rights. I will not allow anyone to frighten me into fortress mentality. I will take all sensible precautions to avoid becoming a victim but I refuse to give up the lifestyle I enjoy because there is a one in ten thousand chance, or less, that sometime in the next twenty years someone is going to attack me or break into my house.

It is the same with terrorists. They get enormous press coverage and people get frightened and demand protection. The problem is, you can't protect every eventuality and in trying to do so you simply lose more of your rights and freedom. 

My wife and I have explored many remote areas of Australia by four wheel drive. We usually travel alone and avoid camping grounds where possible. We sleep in the open in a swag. Never have we felt threatened or unsafe.

If I was concerned I'd be much more worried about heart attack, stroke or cancer than being robbed or attacked. I would be much more concerned about being injured in a car accident. In fact statistically it is probably a thousand times more likely I will hurt myself falling off a ladder.

So I am comfortable in saying I will cross my bridges when I come to them. I will not be worrying about 'what ifs'.


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## elder999 (Apr 10, 2015)

K-man said:


> Hmm! Fire drills ... twice in sixty six years if I recall correctly. Air raid drill... never. And none of them were at school. I did weather a couple of bomb threats about forty years back but took them for the hoaxes they were.



I'm younger than you, but I grew up in the age of "duck and cover." We had at least one air raid drill per year in school, and three fire drills. In my current position, I lead one plant-wide evacuation drill per month-we actually complete four per month.

It seems we might really have found a difference in national mentality.



K-man said:


> In Australia we don't have the access to firearms you do. If an unarmed intruder comes into my home and I used a firearm it would mean both of us being charged. The likelihood of an armed intruder here ... pretty unlikely. Someone comes in with any other weapon, cool, I can handle that. Our home has large windows. Anyone intent on entering can break one and get in no problem. If we are not home off goes the alarm and they have already have to contend with two big dogs. If they hang around they will be caught, if they take anything, it's insured.



Frankly, if someone breaks into my home, and I'm at home with my loved ones, I don't care if they're armed or not-I'm going to shoot them. I really might not even give them the opportunity to flee at that point: I'm going to assume that they're armed, or crazy, or both-I'm going to assume the worst of intent. 

That's part of our *plan*.



K-man said:


> So I am comfortable in saying I will cross my bridges when I come to them. I will not be worrying about 'what ifs'.



Professionally, I've spent  most of my life worrying about "what ifs." You should be thankful, I think......


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## elder999 (Apr 11, 2015)

elder999 said:


> I'm younger than you, but I grew up in the age of "duck and cover."
> 
> 
> Professionally, I've spent  most of my life worrying about "what ifs." You should be thankful, I think......



So, some insights into Jeff Cuffee's psyche, and an explanation of what I meant.

In 1968, I'd watched the Vietnam war on television. I'd seen a President assassinated, and my parent's friend, Martin Luther King assassinated. I'd lived through the Cuban missile crisis. I'd *been* in Civil Defense bomb shelters-knew where they all were, had even, on occasion, done inventory on the food and water supplies there, and checked the batteries on geiger counters, as part of my Cub Scout activities....being a scientifically precocious child, I'd even made my third grade teacher cry: Mrs. Bartholomew was pregnant, and we had a "duck and cover" drill, in which we all went out into the hallway, ducked and covered and against the wall-I had to pick up my head and look at a hallway full of kids with their heads against the wall, and asses up in the air! Mrs. Bartholomew told me to put my head down, and I had to ask, _"What difference does it make? We're all going to be incinerated at 10 million degrees, anyway..."_ Mrs. B. burst into tears......such was the nonsense I grew up with, and part of why I wound up doing the work I did for so long, I think....nonsense like this:


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## K-man (Apr 11, 2015)

elder999 said:


> I'm younger than you, but I grew up in the age of "duck and cover." We had at least one air raid drill per year in school, and three fire drills. In my current position, I lead one plant-wide evacuation drill per month-we actually complete four per month.
> 
> It seems we might really have found a difference in national mentality.


I grew up in a country town and remember seeing newsreels of the Korean War and the human wave tactics of the Chinese. That was scary but a long way away. About 10 years later we had the Cuban missile crisis. That was really scary and to be honest, we reckoned it was all about to turn to mush. I remember drawing circles in my Atlas that showed the range of the Russian rockets. Even so, it was you guys that would have been targeted. In reality we probably wouldn't have even had fallout, but we didn't know that back in '62, so even then we didn't have those sorts of drills.




elder999 said:


> Frankly, if someone breaks into my home, and I'm at home with my loved ones, I don't care if they're armed or not-I'm going to shoot them. I really might not even give them the opportunity to flee at that point: I'm going to assume that they're armed, or crazy, or both-I'm going to assume the worst of intent.
> 
> That's part of our *plan*.


Different culture totally. 



elder999 said:


> Professionally, I've spent  most of my life worrying about "what ifs." You should be thankful, I think......


I am very thankful. I have no illusions as to that. I was in the draft ballot for Vietnam and at that time quite prepared to go. My number didn't come up.


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## Jenna (Apr 13, 2015)

Brian R. VanCise said:


> Thought I would direct you to my latest blog post.  Hopefully it will generate some critical thought on self-defense and personal protection in your life.  That and some discussion.....
> 
> The Instinctive Edge
> 
> Note: due to the word **** in the link it will not directly link to that blog post.  So because I continually blog just go the page and either scroll down or search for it on my blog utillizing the search function!  Thanks


This is an extreme situation you depict Brian.. it begs the question is it worth it as investment in time and training in a plan that you might only use once in your life and maybe never use at all?  I guess it depends on how much you value your self and family or how much you are happy to play statistics.  

Me I like to be friendly to any one and I know I can be friendly to any one if I know how to put them away if they turn out not to be so nice 

I can feel safer where I am staying by taking plenty of steps beforehand.. I keep a purse with some cash notes lying obvious near the apartment door so if someone has come past this then I figure they are after something I am less happy to give away..  I do "feng shui" wherever I live so I can tip up the wardrobe / closet across the door if needs be and - after surviving an attempt at arson some years before - I always establish now where I am living how I access the potential exits from the room, from the building..  For me Brian it is escape not fight with people you describe.. I do not know how well I would fare in that instance so I take every other advantage beforehand and plan so it does not come to this.. I do not know if that veers from what you had thought?  

As for weapons.. I think it is different in the US from elsewhere, yes??  and but um.. would ample natural charm count??? 

Extreme situation this portrayal surely is and I think planning for similar is only wise and prudent.. we train for worse than we ever hope to meet so yes.. good post Brian  Jxx


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## MJS (Apr 13, 2015)

Brian R. VanCise said:


> Thought I would direct you to my latest blog post.  Hopefully it will generate some critical thought on self-defense and personal protection in your life.  That and some discussion.....
> 
> The Instinctive Edge
> 
> Note: due to the word **** in the link it will not directly link to that blog post.  So because I continually blog just go the page and either scroll down or search for it on my blog utillizing the search function!  Thanks



I read that article on FB, as well as on your blog.  Good for the home owners.  It's definitely a very good idea to take precautions, not only when you're out, but also inside your home.  IMHO, your home is your home.  Anyone who breaks into your home, gets whatever you dish out to them.  I don't believe in having to retreat when you're in your own home.  Think about it...where are you going to retreat to, when you're on the 2nd fl?  Into a locked room?  Jump out the window?  Sorry, but most interior doors are not so sturdy that they can't be kicked in, and I'm not going to jump out a window either.  But that's just me.  To each their own.  If someone wants to lock themselves in a bathroom, while the bad guys clean out your home, have at it.  

The home invasion that happened in Cheshire, CT, resulted in 3 of the 4 family members being killed, the 4th badly beaten, and the home set on fire.  
Having a plan is a very good idea.  It's also not a bad idea to, as we saw by the article, have a weapon or 2 handy.


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## MJS (Apr 13, 2015)

drop bear said:


> Seriously. I don't know about about other countries but here if someone has gone to the effort of kicking in your door and doing a home invasion. You generally have deserved it. It means you are selling drugs. Are invoked in gangs or slept with someone's girlfriend.
> 
> But if you are really concerned. One thing nobody mentioned in all the guns and dogs and other ninja stuff.
> 
> Buy a lock.



In most cases, yes, that's usually the case.  However:
Cheshire Connecticut home invasion murders - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

These people were not drug dealers.  Just an innocent family, victimized by 2 thugs, with past criminal history.


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## MJS (Apr 13, 2015)

drop bear said:


> I don't really have the stuff or the lifestyle to warrant getting home invaded.



And the bad guy knows this how?  I don't know where you live, but nowadays, people will steal just about anything they can get their hands on, for some quick cash, usually to buy drugs.


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## tshadowchaser (Apr 13, 2015)

years back my place was broken into and a few things stolen. Luckily we where not home at the time.
The thieves did try to load a 308 round into a 7MM rifle we had in the house shame it jammed going in I would have like to see what they looked like if they had fired it.
Now any firearm is well hidden but quickly accessible.  I admit to having to many bladed weapons within reach and not hidden but that is for our safety as we know how to handle them and a good idea how to defend against them and no 2nd thoughts about using them as has been proven in the past.

In event of a big disaster or civil war, etc. we have  plans but all plans have a 2nd contingency if number one dose not or can not work. Basically it is head for the woods and live off the land as long as possible being careful whom we meet up with.


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## hoshin1600 (Apr 13, 2015)

I am glad others took the time to google and post a link to the home invasion I was referring too.  I have posted on it before and I hate to keep using it as reference but while it may be extreme there are many text book facets to it. 
Home invasion is by definition when you are home. Because in the past most burglary happened when the occupants where not home, here in the US we still do not keep stats on common burglary VS home invasion.  It is believed however that home invasion is a growing trend.  One reason that has been brought up is the rise in camera systems in public facilities like liquor stores and gas stations. The second possible reason is that the return on the crime is greater when there is a home owner to show where valuables are. There is also the common added crime of kidnapping and bringing the victim to an ATM.
In 1979  A. Nicholas Groth did ground breaking studies on rape perpetrators. He found even back then that many criminals prefer the seclusion of the home to commit their crimes.  One criminal commented..."it just four walls and me".


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## hoshin1600 (Apr 13, 2015)

One of the new common tactics used by criminals is to just walk up and knock on your door. When you answer the door they will engage you with some kind of talk like..."I'm looking for my friend Johns house, what number house is this? All the while making judgments about your susceptibility and if you make a good target if not they walk away, other wise they will storm in with incredible violence and surprise in order to gain the upper hand and controll.
While this may seem brazen it is by far safer for them then entering an unknown situation.


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## jezr74 (Apr 13, 2015)

I have a 4 Cell Maglite on my bedside table. That's about it.


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## BMhadoken (Apr 14, 2015)

hoshin1600 said:


> I am glad others took the time to google and post a link to the home invasion I was referring too.  I have posted on it before and I hate to keep using it as reference but while it may be extreme there are many text book facets to it.
> Home invasion is by definition when you are home. Because in the past most burglary happened when the occupants where not home, here in the US we still do not keep stats on common burglary VS home invasion.  It is believed however that home invasion is a growing trend.  One reason that has been brought up is the rise in camera systems in public facilities like liquor stores and gas stations. The second possible reason is that the return on the crime is greater when there is a home owner to show where valuables are. There is also the common added crime of kidnapping and bringing the victim to an ATM.
> In 1979  A. Nicholas Groth did ground breaking studies on rape perpetrators. He found even back then that many criminals prefer the seclusion of the home to commit their crimes.  One criminal commented..."it just four walls and me".


If your goal is strictly snatch-and-grab, then at least among the more unsavory types I used to know, the go-to strategy is B&E during the day when everyone's gone. You're not worrying about cameras either way, but anything you have to do involving the owner of the home you're not supposed to be in just cranks the legal consequences up to 11 if you get caught. If they broke into a home after nightfall when people are very likely to be home, it's because they were hunting. If there was someone home during a daylight snatch-n-grab, they got the hell out.


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## Mad_Dog (May 4, 2015)

I'm not going to lie, when the **** hits the fan I can't see the forest for the trees.  The adrenaline hits me and the blood's pumping, I live for that, I start swinging and hit anything that moves, friend or foe.


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## Dirty Dog (May 4, 2015)

Mad_Dog said:


> I'm not going to lie, when the **** hits the fan I can't see the forest for the trees.  The adrenaline hits me and the blood's pumping, I live for that, I start swinging and hit anything that moves, friend or foe.



So are you posting from prison? Because if even half of the stuff you claim is true (and frankly, I doubt that even that much is...), that's where you belong.


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## K-man (May 4, 2015)

Dirty Dog said:


> So are you posting from prison? Because if even half of the stuff you claim is true (and frankly, I doubt that even that much is...), that's where you belong.


Or the psych ward.


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