# Mong Su Dom Tai



## CNida (Oct 6, 2013)

There used to be a school in my area that taught this martial art. I believe it is Chinese but I'm not certain.

Did a forum search but couldn't turn anything up.

Does anyone know enough about the art to enlighten me?


____________________________

"He who knows not and knows not he knows not: He is a fool. Shun him. He who knows not and knows he knows not: He is simple. Teach him. He who knows and knows not he knows: He is asleep. Awaken him. He who knows and knows that he knows: He is wise. Follow him."
- Bruce Lee


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## Takai (Oct 6, 2013)

Never heard of it. Sorry.


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## clfsean (Oct 6, 2013)

CNida said:


> There used to be a school in my area that taught this martial art. I believe it is Chinese but I'm not certain.
> 
> Did a forum search but couldn't turn anything up.
> 
> ...



Five minutes on Google... plenty of responses.

http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=408907&page=1

Appears to be a home spun creation.


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## CNida (Oct 6, 2013)

clfsean said:


> Five minutes on Google... plenty of responses.
> 
> http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=408907&page=1
> 
> Appears to be a home spun creation.



I spent a bit more than five minutes on Bing and even looked into that particular link a bit but only briefly because it didn't really talk much about the art, only that some people felt it was nothing extravagant, just TKD of a different label.

Was actually hoping to maybe see if anyone has any experience with it. I even searched the name to see its translation but apparently there is no direct translation in any language other than Vietnamese. 


____________________________

"He who knows not and knows not he knows not: He is a fool. Shun him. He who knows not and knows he knows not: He is simple. Teach him. He who knows and knows not he knows: He is asleep. Awaken him. He who knows and knows that he knows: He is wise. Follow him."
- Bruce Lee


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## Takai (Oct 6, 2013)

clfsean said:


> Five minutes on Google... plenty of responses.
> 
> http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=408907&page=1
> 
> Appears to be a home spun creation.



That thread got a bit testy.


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## clfsean (Oct 7, 2013)

Takai said:


> That thread got a bit testy.



Yup... nobody likes to hear they've been handed a load. By the time you figure it out, often there's investments that can't be returned. So they get testy. There was a time when the world was a much bigger place & information wasn't readily available as it is now, just from our phones. Back then... you could say/do most anything & get away with it. So by the time information sharing changed things, people are too far down the rabbit hole & don't like admitting certain things.


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## CNida (Oct 8, 2013)

After a bit of interfacing, I have discovered a bit about Mong Su Dom Tai. It is apparently a derivative of Tracy's Kenpo, or so I am told. The art was marketed as Mong Su Dom Tai, and was apparently an attempt to bring Tracy's Kenpo to the southern United States. It uses a lot of the same names and techniques that is used in Tracy's Kenpo.

Not sure if it's all true but I heard it from a source more knowledgeable than myself.


____________________________

"He who knows not and knows not he knows not: He is a fool. Shun him. He who knows not and knows he knows not: He is simple. Teach him. He who knows and knows not he knows: He is asleep. Awaken him. He who knows and knows that he knows: He is wise. Follow him."
- Bruce Lee


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## clfsean (Oct 8, 2013)

CNida said:


> After a bit of interfacing, I have discovered a bit about Mong Su Dom Tai. It is apparently a derivative of Tracy's Kenpo, or so I am told. The art was marketed as Mong Su Dom Tai, and was apparently an attempt to bring Tracy's Kenpo to the southern United States. It uses a lot of the same names and techniques that is used in Tracy's Kenpo.
> 
> Not sure if it's all true but I heard it from a source more knowledgeable than myself.
> 
> ...



Well considering Al Tracy lives in Kentucky & his school is there as the HQ (unless something has changed which it very well could've) ... I can't figure out why that would need to happen. There's a Tracy "Nth" (meaning I don't know for sure) degree black about 5 minutes from where I live.


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## dmsaint (Feb 2, 2016)

Well this is an old thread, but if anyone is interested I can shed some light on the subject. Mong Su Dom Tai is what happens when a martial artist earns a black belt under Jim "Ronin" Harrison, learns the entire Shou Shu Kung Fu system, tests for 1st degree black belt in Tracy's Kenpo Karate (the story I was told in-studio is that the founder and his wife tested for black belt and succeeded but walked out of the studio after the instructors asked if they could incorporate their thesis form into the system), and train savate to physical excellency only to decide it is too difficult to teach it all seperately. So they used the kenpo system structure teaching model and created their own choreographed self defense techniques incorporating their diverse experience and training. Wonder where they got the inspiration to found their own style? Look at their lineage......ALL of their instructors were revered martial artists who did exactly that. The training philosophy was Bruce Lee 101.....to become a martial artist you have to make your own expression of art.....either way the art is legit. I quit after several years of training and went into other things because they have a closed door policy that I think is weird and cult - like. They have their own tournaments, no spectators in class, it's forbidden to share the techniques lol.....weird. what is weirder is that most systems that do that are hiding their lack of skill or their brainwashing special magic chi lol but MSDT is, from a technical viewpoint, a no-nonsense up close and personal self defense system. The attitude is like the Kuntao Silat I studied and the body motion is unique small circle kung fu with savate kicks.....weapons are good. They teach fighting forms and sound sparring techniques. No knife forms.....knife is taught spontaneously. But wierd controlling clan mentality. I moved on to other things but have to say I haven't encountered much that out classes it technically....definitely many other capable, even equal, systems out there....but not really better than it. It's up there on the traditionally taught arts scale for sure. People are right to be critical and suspicious of "home spun" arts but should also be open to investigate because the truth is all arts were once "home spun" and those great arts we enjoy today are home spun somewhere in history.


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## AJenningsLater (Feb 27, 2021)

dmsaint said:


> Well this is an old thread, but if anyone is interested I can shed some light on the subject. Mong Su Dom Tai is what happens when a martial artist earns a black belt under Jim "Ronin" Harrison, learns the entire Shou Shu Kung Fu system, tests for 1st degree black belt in Tracy's Kenpo Karate (the story I was told in-studio is that the founder and his wife tested for black belt and succeeded but walked out of the studio after the instructors asked if they could incorporate their thesis form into the system), and train savate to physical excellency only to decide it is too difficult to teach it all seperately. So they used the kenpo system structure teaching model and created their own choreographed self defense techniques incorporating their diverse experience and training. Wonder where they got the inspiration to found their own style? Look at their lineage......ALL of their instructors were revered martial artists who did exactly that. The training philosophy was Bruce Lee 101.....to become a martial artist you have to make your own expression of art.....either way the art is legit. I quit after several years of training and went into other things because they have a closed door policy that I think is weird and cult - like. They have their own tournaments, no spectators in class, it's forbidden to share the techniques lol.....weird. what is weirder is that most systems that do that are hiding their lack of skill or their brainwashing special magic chi lol but MSDT is, from a technical viewpoint, a no-nonsense up close and personal self defense system. The attitude is like the Kuntao Silat I studied and the body motion is unique small circle kung fu with savate kicks.....weapons are good. They teach fighting forms and sound sparring techniques. No knife forms.....knife is taught spontaneously. But wierd controlling clan mentality. I moved on to other things but have to say I haven't encountered much that out classes it technically....definitely many other capable, even equal, systems out there....but not really better than it. It's up there on the traditionally taught arts scale for sure. People are right to be critical and suspicious of "home spun" arts but should also be open to investigate because the truth is all arts were once "home spun" and those great arts we enjoy today are home spun somewhere in history.



Mong Su Dom Tai Chinese  Karate Studios has perfectly understandable reasons for their rules, the rules have been slightly loosened now,  but years ago there were multiple competing martial arts systems that were always attempting to take over rights others' systems. This was similar to company trade secrets. When MSDT came to the Midwest, they were all too used to the extremely competitive nature of Martial Arts systems in California, so naturally they had rules to protect they're system, as that system became the founders legacy.


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