# What Martial Arts would help me in this situation?



## TheMartian (Nov 22, 2015)

Hello, everyone I'm new, hi , I really need you guys help, I am thinking of starting up MMA because well, heres the story:

This kid challenged me to a Fight, and I hesitated but he kept asking so I said fine, he got me in a head lock and chocked me, then talked behind my back and told everyone, I lost btw, I also found out he had done Karate for 8 years and plays Football, will MMA help me in our next fight? I am thinking about taking up MMA for a year and working really hard, then trying to best him, hes not very nice.

Please take in mind I'm not doing it to beat him up or anything, I have wanted to do a martial art for sometime now, I don't want to hurt anyone, I want him to stop and leave me alone.

Thanks


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## Touch Of Death (Nov 22, 2015)

I think you are a little late in the game for that guy. I think any motivation to get you in the door is good.


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## Jenna (Nov 22, 2015)

TheMartian said:


> Hello, everyone I'm new, hi , I really need you guys help, I am thinking of starting up MMA because well, heres the story:
> 
> This kid challenged me to a Fight, and I hesitated but he kept asking so I said fine, he got me in a head lock and chocked me, then talked behind my back and told everyone, I lost btw, I also found out he had done Karate for 8 years and plays Football, will MMA help me in our next fight? I am thinking about taking up MMA for a year and working really hard, then trying to best him, hes not very nice.
> 
> ...


Hey, sorry you have had to deal with this.  It is not easy having someone talk about you like that.  Well MMA or any other martial art for that matter will undoubtedly help with your confidence.  Though only IF you stick at it.  NO martial art on the other hand will make you invincible.

Still, if the thought of not finding yourself so unprepared for a fight gives you the motivation to join a martial arts school then the fight with that kid has not been all bad.  So get your self off to a class near you and make it count for some thing!  And come back let us know how it goes for you!  Wishes, Jx


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## OldGhost (Nov 22, 2015)

TheMartian said:


> Hello, everyone I'm new, hi , I really need you guys help, I am thinking of starting up MMA because well, heres the story:
> 
> This kid challenged me to a Fight, and I hesitated but he kept asking so I said fine, he got me in a head lock and chocked me, then talked behind my back and told everyone, I lost btw, I also found out he had done Karate for 8 years and plays Football, will MMA help me in our next fight? I am thinking about taking up MMA for a year and working really hard, then trying to best him, hes not very nice.
> 
> ...


Your situation sounds a lot like mine many moons ago, when I was in school. Being thin as a rail back then in a small redneck town lets just say I got picked on, I had several fights won some lost most. A friend told me to come check out the karate class he attended said it would help me learn to deal with bullies. So long story short I had a huge chip on my shoulder, I wanted revenge and I wanted broken noses to prove to everyone I was not to be messed with. After I spoke to the instructor he said he would teach me but I had to promise I would not use my training for the wrong reason. At first I thought what ever get some training whoop some tails and quit training. All is good my “ reputation will be restored” well I started going to class, then I started sparing in class and I loved it. I got hit yes but I learned not to block with my face. I liked class so much I watched and even fought my friends when the belt tested. I was super shy about getting in front of everyone by myself. And by the time my friends got their 3rd or 4th belts in the system I saw a change in me. I had nothing to prove, I didn't care if people talked trash. I knew I could hold my own and that changed me in a big way.

So the main thing is yes you should think about training, but do it for the right reason don't train to go hurt some kid that's acting like an idiot.


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## drop bear (Nov 22, 2015)

TheMartian said:


> Hello, everyone I'm new, hi , I really need you guys help, I am thinking of starting up MMA because well, heres the story:
> 
> This kid challenged me to a Fight, and I hesitated but he kept asking so I said fine, he got me in a head lock and chocked me, then talked behind my back and told everyone, I lost btw, I also found out he had done Karate for 8 years and plays Football, will MMA help me in our next fight? I am thinking about taking up MMA for a year and working really hard, then trying to best him, hes not very nice.
> 
> ...



Yes it would have helped in that situation.  It could help dealing with any negative emotions you now have from fighting. An if you do need to fight people you could do it under sensible conditions like a ring and not silly ones like wherever you had that one.


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## TheMartian (Nov 23, 2015)

Touch Of Death said:


> I think you are a little late in the game for that guy. I think any motivation to get you in the door is good.


Yeah, he doesn't take it seriously, he keeps complaining how Karate doesn't teach him anything, and from my experiences, if I do something I don't like, even if i do it for years, I still won't get that good at it as much as if I would have liked it, so there's still a chance for me maybe.


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## TheMartian (Nov 23, 2015)

Jenna said:


> Hey, sorry you have had to deal with this.  It is not easy having someone talk about you like that.  Well MMA or any other martial art for that matter will undoubtedly help with your confidence.  Though only IF you stick at it.  NO martial art on the other hand will make you invincible.
> 
> Still, if the thought of not finding yourself so unprepared for a fight gives you the motivation to join a martial arts school then the fight with that kid has not been all bad.  So get your self off to a class near you and make it count for some thing!  And come back let us know how it goes for you!  Wishes, Jx


Thank you! I'm going to start classes as soon as my finger heals up(another story for another time).
I will definitely let you know how it goes soon.


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## TheMartian (Nov 23, 2015)

OldGhost said:


> Your situation sounds a lot like mine many moons ago, when I was in school. Being thin as a rail back then in a small redneck town lets just say I got picked on, I had several fights won some lost most. A friend told me to come check out the karate class he attended said it would help me learn to deal with bullies. So long story short I had a huge chip on my shoulder, I wanted revenge and I wanted broken noses to prove to everyone I was not to be messed with. After I spoke to the instructor he said he would teach me but I had to promise I would not use my training for the wrong reason. At first I thought what ever get some training whoop some tails and quit training. All is good my “ reputation will be restored” well I started going to class, then I started sparing in class and I loved it. I got hit yes but I learned not to block with my face. I liked class so much I watched and even fought my friends when the belt tested. I was super shy about getting in front of everyone by myself. And by the time my friends got their 3rd or 4th belts in the system I saw a change in me. I had nothing to prove, I didn't care if people talked trash. I knew I could hold my own and that changed me in a big way.
> 
> So the main thing is yes you should think about training, but do it for the right reason don't train to go hurt some kid that's acting like an idiot.


I will take your advice. I will not do anything for the wrong reason. And as you said, I think the instructors will be able to help me with control and stuff.

Thanks.


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## lklawson (Nov 23, 2015)

TheMartian said:


> This kid challenged me to a Fight, and I hesitated but he kept asking so I said fine,


Well that was pretty dumb.



> he got me in a head lock and chocked me,


You're inexperienced and untrained.  That was to be expected.



> then talked behind my back and told everyone, I lost btw,


Of course he did.  You guys are apparently young enough that the male pecking order and the ritualistic "monkey dance" are still important to you.  Whoever "wins" the fight will tell everyone.  That's how being a teenage boy works.



> I also found out he had done Karate for 8 years and plays Football,


So he's had some martial training which may or may not be any good (but which isn't consistent with a "headlock and choke") and is athletic and probably has good endurance and strength as well as playing a contact sport in which he's used to getting "hit" and fosters an aggressive mindset.



> will MMA help me in our next fight?


Probably.  But it depends a lot on you, how quick you learn, how well you can get into an aggressive mindset, and the quality of the instruction you receive.  MMA instruction is currently among the most popular and therefore commands the highest prices.



> I am thinking about taking up MMA for a year and working really hard, then trying to best him, hes not very nice.


I know this is a dumb question to ask a teenage boy, but have you considered NOT fighting him?  Seriously, in today's environment you risk being expelled from school and possibly legal repercussions which could absolutely screw you for years to come.  And for what?  So that you can have bragging rights and maybe a better chance at getting into Suzie's panties?  Go take the MMA training but skip the fight and take Suzie out to someplace really nice and tell her she's pretty.



> Please take in mind I'm not doing it to beat him up or anything, I have wanted to do a martial art for sometime now, I don't want to hurt anyone,


Sure.  That's why you're wanting to challenge him again.  Nah.  Teen boys gotta thump their chests.



> I want him to stop and leave me alone.


Then ignore him and leave him alone.  Go take your MMA training.  It's good stuff.  But don't tell him.  You don't have to keep it a secret.  Tell your friends if you want, but don't do it so that it can get back to your erstwhile opponent.  Just do it because martial arts are fun.  If you ever need to use it, it'll be there.  Tell your instructor what happened and he'll focus on bringing you up to speed in that context.

Honestly.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## Steve (Nov 23, 2015)

If you're interested in MMA, I really think you should train in MMA.  But, as others have said, keep your fighting in the ring, train hard and approach it like the sport it is.  Practice hard and enjoy yourself.


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## Tony Dismukes (Nov 23, 2015)

Kirk covered everything I was going to say.


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## drop bear (Nov 24, 2015)

lklawson said:


> Of course he did. You guys are apparently young enough that the male pecking order and the ritualistic "monkey dance" are still important to you. Whoever "wins" the fight will tell everyone. That's how being a teenage boy works.



The monkey dance in an environment you can't escape from. Like in school is important to manage. It sets your social standing. And life is easier if you are near the top of that and not the bottom.

If you are protected by other social constructs like what occures in most workplaces or the ability to remove yourself from that environment it is a different game.

But we can't project what is not important in our environment to being not important in someone else's.

There are other ways to manage this problem than fighting. But it can be a real problem that does not go away if you ignore it.


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## lklawson (Nov 24, 2015)

drop bear said:


> The monkey dance in an environment you can't escape from. Like in school is important to manage. It sets your social standing. And life is easier if you are near the top of that and not the bottom.
> 
> If you are protected by other social constructs like what occures in most workplaces or the ability to remove yourself from that environment it is a different game.
> 
> ...


Of course.  Like I said, "that's how teenage boys work."  

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## drop bear (Nov 24, 2015)

lklawson said:


> Of course.  Like I said, "that's how teenage boys work."
> 
> Peace favor your sword,
> Kirk



It is how bouncing and small towns work as well. My point is that you have to ajust your prioritys to suit your environment.

Most of us are safer than we were as teenagers. And we take that sense of safety and project it on to others who don't have it.


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## GiYu - Todd (Nov 25, 2015)

TheMartian said:


> I also found out he had done Karate for 8 years and plays Football, will MMA help me in our next fight? I am thinking about taking up MMA for a year and working really hard, then trying to best him, hes not very nice.
> 
> Please take in mind I'm not doing it to beat him up or anything, I have wanted to do a martial art for sometime now, I don't want to hurt anyone, I want him to stop and leave me alone.


I recommend you get some training (if I didn't, I wouldn't be doing it myself).  However, you should do it to make yourself better.

A year from now, you'll have one year of training and he'll have 9 (assuming he's still training), so he'll still have an edge on you.  It's probably not the wisest choice to challenge him.  But, if he decides to start trouble again and you can't avoid it, you'll have a slightly better chance.

I know a bruised ego may sting, but I doubt other students look down on you for having been bested by a bully.  They're just thankful it wasn't them he targeted... this time.  Years from now, nobody will remember it at all... seriously. 

Good luck to you.


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## oftheherd1 (Nov 25, 2015)

You need to focus on the advice about yourself, and what any martial art can give you as a person.  Any martial art, properly taught and learned, would put you in better shape to defend yourself than not.  You will gain more respect from yourself and from others by not being one who goes around fighting all the time just to be able to say you can.  I know that doesn't sound right now, but as GiYu - Todd said, in years to come, when most people have gained some maturity, that kind of behavior is not likely to be looked on with favor.

So, find a martial art that you like and go for it.  Let it mold you into a more mature person.  The fact that you will be better able to defend yourself if you cannot avoid a fight will be just a nice side effect.


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## crazydiamond (Nov 26, 2015)

I got bullied in high school badly. Pushed around verbally abused, by a small group of aligned bullies and general a holes. So many years ago. I look at it now and realize with a little training I probably could have taken care of a few of them easily. I also realize if I had publicly  taken down one, or more of them, they would not have stopped. They would have escalated and came after me harder (pushing to pounding to weapons) or in a group, maybe even my parents home or autos. Ya they were that much of a-holes and their entire life was based on their tough bad boy rep in school. There would have been no escape - like fighting in a fish bowl you can't leave for years with a fish that has no other value to himself.

Not saying you should not train in MMA for self defense and confidence - you should, but realize a situation like this might not be resolved with one fight.  Use this as a launching point to new horizons.


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## Bill Mattocks (Nov 26, 2015)

You walk up to the head bully with a board and you knock him out. End of bully problem. True story. All his bully Bros will find other targets.

Of course, you have to be 10 years old, living in a town of 400, in the late 1960s, or you also go to jail.


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## TheMartian (Nov 26, 2015)

GiYu - Todd said:


> I recommend you get some training (if I didn't, I wouldn't be doing it myself).  However, you should do it to make yourself better.
> 
> A year from now, you'll have one year of training and he'll have 9 (assuming he's still training), so he'll still have an edge on you.  It's probably not the wisest choice to challenge him.  But, if he decides to start trouble again and you can't avoid it, you'll have a slightly better chance.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I go to someone to help me deal with stuff like this, and he suggested MMA, and I said yes, but he made me promise never to use it for the wrong reasons. So I won't be challenging him, I just realized he's not worth my time.
Thanks.



oftheherd1 said:


> You need to focus on the advice about yourself, and what any martial art can give you as a person.  Any martial art, properly taught and learned, would put you in better shape to defend yourself than not.  You will gain more respect from yourself and from others by not being one who goes around fighting all the time just to be able to say you can.  I know that doesn't sound right now, but as GiYu - Todd said, in years to come, when most people have gained some maturity, that kind of behavior is not likely to be looked on with favor.
> 
> So, find a martial art that you like and go for it.  Let it mold you into a more mature person.  The fact that you will be better able to defend yourself if you cannot avoid a fight will be just a nice side effect.





crazydiamond said:


> I got bullied in high school badly. Pushed around verbally abused, by a small group of aligned bullies and general a holes. So many years ago. I look at it now and realize with a little training I probably could have taken care of a few of them easily. I also realize if I had publicly  taken down one, or more of them, they would not have stopped. They would have escalated and came after me harder (pushing to pounding to weapons) or in a group, maybe even my parents home or autos. Ya they were that much of a-holes and their entire life was based on their tough bad boy rep in school. There would have been no escape - like fighting in a fish bowl you can't leave for years with a fish that has no other value to himself.
> 
> Not saying you should not train in MMA for self defense and confidence - you should, but realize a situation like this might not be resolved with one fight.  Use this as a launching point to new horizons.


I will take your advice.

Thanks.


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## Kenpoguy123 (Dec 2, 2015)

You want to train? Fine go for It good on you but you say the guy asked to fight you and eventyallh you agreed. Well if you'd never agreed there'd be no fight so you wouldn't have needed to. Maybe you were afraid of looking like a coward. Honestly my friend who cares if people think you're a coward you'll never see those people again in a few years. Me personally I've been doing martial arts since primary school (elementary) and all through high school. I got challenges from idiots to fight and I turned them all down and walked away. I've never had a street fight in my life which I'm very happy about. I could've easily taken down those guys who challenged me but I had no reason to and I'm sure most people thought I was a wimp who can't fight his way out a wet paper bag but honestly I didn't give a damm. I have nothing to prove to anyone. If they started trying to hit me then if defend myself but anything else isn't worth it


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## lklawson (Dec 2, 2015)

Kenpoguy123 said:


> Honestly my friend who cares if people think you're a coward you'll never see those people again in a few years.


Maybe because he's in the same place as those people for 7+ hours a day, 5 days a week, for up to 4 years, in which they can, and usually will, make his life miserable and him a social outcast?

Look, I agree that agreeing to the fight was stupid.  But there are *powerful* social pressures which are encouraging him to do so.  The Male Dominance Ritual exists for a reason.

Here's the fun thing.  If he starts taking MMA (or [fill in the blank]) classes seriously, he may never have to fight again in school.  The info will slowly filter around and, if he's not a jerk, then he may not get challenged ever again.  He'll have a "rep" as someone not to be messed with and if he's not a jerk he won't be giving anyone any particular reason to try that out.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## drop bear (Dec 3, 2015)

lklawson said:


> Maybe because he's in the same place as those people for 7+ hours a day, 5 days a week, for up to 4 years, in which they can, and usually will, make his life miserable and him a social outcast?
> 
> Look, I agree that agreeing to the fight was stupid.  But there are *powerful* social pressures which are encouraging him to do so.  The Male Dominance Ritual exists for a reason.
> 
> ...



And he creates a new social group that may help him escape the pressure of the old one.

Training has helped my work sucks issues before.


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## GiYu - Todd (Dec 3, 2015)

lklawson said:


> Here's the fun thing. If he starts taking MMA (or [fill in the blank]) classes seriously, he may never have to fight again in school. The info will slowly filter around and, if he's not a jerk, then he may not get challenged ever again. He'll have a "rep" as someone not to be messed with and if he's not a jerk he won't be giving anyone any particular reason to try that out.


 Very good point.  I've also noticed that most people who have trained for much time, tend to carry themselves with more confidence.  They don't tend to fear other people as much, and it shows, even if word hasn't gotten around. 
Often, the bullies are looking for easy marks.  The last thing they want is a fair fight, lest they lose and have their "alpha" status destroyed.  They tend toward shy, non-confrontational type targets for a reason.  (although there are exceptions). 
In school, I was a bespectacled band geek.  Over time and with some training, I developed more confidence, which then seemed to get me more respectful treatment.


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## Bill Mattocks (Dec 3, 2015)

Ignoring bullies does not work.  Bullies don't give up until they are a) clobbered or b) defeat the person they picked on.

Whether one trains or not, bullies have to be stood up to or they just continue to be a problem.  Which is why I took my father's advice and hit my bully in the head with a board.  Fair?  No, not hardly.  And today that would be very bad advice, A kid would likely end up in serious trouble if they tried that.  But you know what? It worked.  That's all I'm saying.

When I moved to a new town (and we moved a lot), I always had to fight.  Always.  There is a pecking order, and unless all the males know where you belong in it, you're going to keep getting pressured to fight.  Eventually, the 'guys' located someone on the wrestling team to fight me and formed a ring around us and pushed us at each other until one of us took a swing at the other.  We were going to fight, that was all there was to it.  As it happened, I won, but it did not matter if I won or lost; it would establish my spot, high or low, in the pecking order.  Issue resolved.

As to martial arts training, I respectfully disagree that it will stop anyone from fighting the person who is training.  It may dissuade some; but many more will feel the need to test themselves against the 'karate guy' or whatever.  And they will.  And it may not just be once or twice.  Word will get around when the 'karate guy' whips their butts, and THEN the issue will stop.  But until then, not so much.


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## JowGaWolf (Dec 3, 2015)

Bill Mattocks said:


> Ignoring bullies does not work. Bullies don't give up until they are a) clobbered or b) defeat the person they picked on.


  More a) than b). 
Bullies do what they do because they are targeting people of a certain nature.  They go after anyone who seems like an easy target.  Definitely keep the "I take karate" statement classified.  I remember in the sixth grade I became the guy to beat because they knew I took karate.  It was a pain in the neck to deal with  because it was less about bullying and more about challenging me in order to advance their "street credit"


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## lklawson (Dec 4, 2015)

Bill Mattocks said:


> Ignoring bullies does not work.  Bullies don't give up until they are a) clobbered or b) defeat the person they picked on.


Sometimes yes, sometimes no.



> As to martial arts training, I respectfully disagree that it will stop anyone from fighting the person who is training.  It may dissuade some; but many more will feel the need to test themselves against the 'karate guy' or whatever.  And they will.  And it may not just be once or twice.  Word will get around when the 'karate guy' whips their butts, and THEN the issue will stop.  But until then, not so much.


Not in my experience.  There may be some who have to "test out" the karate guy (or the "big" guy, or whatever) but my experience is that they're the exception rather than the rule.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## JowGaWolf (Dec 4, 2015)

lklawson said:


> There may be some who have to "test out" the karate guy (or the "big" guy, or whatever) but my experience is that they're the exception rather than the rule.
> 
> Peace favor your sword,


  It's probably less now than what it was in the past.  BJJ and MMA now "rule the block" and most people who want to test someone probably think that karate is insignificant.  Just for me personally, so many people get black belts so easily these days that me fighting a person that does karate wouldn't have the same thrill as it did when I took it.  I'm not talking down on karate, I'm just saying that finding a black belt with good fighting skills is rare because there are so many that have a black belt but lack the fighting skills.  Kung Fu is even worse. If I spar against someone that does kung fu then the first thing I think about is basic kickboxing.  It doesn't mean that the system is no good.  It's just rare to find someone that actually knows how to use the fighting system to fight.

BJJ and MMA are different because they have the spotlight. There seems to be no shortages of MMA vs... and BJJ vs.... street fights where people are gathered around 2 fighters go at it in the street to see who is the toughest.


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## TheMartian (Dec 5, 2015)

Kenpoguy123 said:


> You want to train? Fine go for It good on you but you say the guy asked to fight you and eventyallh you agreed. Well if you'd never agreed there'd be no fight so you wouldn't have needed to. Maybe you were afraid of looking like a coward. Honestly my friend who cares if people think you're a coward you'll never see those people again in a few years. Me personally I've been doing martial arts since primary school (elementary) and all through high school. I got challenges from idiots to fight and I turned them all down and walked away. I've never had a street fight in my life which I'm very happy about. I could've easily taken down those guys who challenged me but I had no reason to and I'm sure most people thought I was a wimp who can't fight his way out a wet paper bag but honestly I didn't give a damm. I have nothing to prove to anyone. If they started trying to hit me then if defend myself but anything else isn't worth it


I know man, he isn't worth my time, in fact, he's a coward, he would rather fight people with no martial art skill, there's this kid whos knows MMA, and he hates him, he says he doesn't want to fight because he doesn't want to get into trouble, but now I know it's because he's afraid, and i won't use anything on anyone unless my close friends are getting hurt, or actually beat up, which is unlikely, but you never know, to be honest, I wouldn't have thought you to be a wimp, people are good at reading other people would know that you weren't wussying out. 

I wouldn't say I was afraid of being a coward, he said that it was going to be friendly, and I'm not used to what he was doing(choking). He broke his "Code of honor" or something, using martial arts on someone who doesn't know it is being a coward.

Thanks for the positive response.


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## Kenpoguy123 (Dec 8, 2015)

TheMartian said:


> I know man, he isn't worth my time, in fact, he's a coward, he would rather fight people with no martial art skill, there's this kid whos knows MMA, and he hates him, he says he doesn't want to fight because he doesn't want to get into trouble, but now I know it's because he's afraid, and i won't use anything on anyone unless my close friends are getting hurt, or actually beat up, which is unlikely, but you never know, to be honest, I wouldn't have thought you to be a wimp, people are good at reading other people would know that you weren't wussying out.
> 
> I wouldn't say I was afraid of being a coward, he said that it was going to be friendly, and I'm not used to what he was doing(choking). He broke his "Code of honor" or something, using martial arts on someone who doesn't know it is being a coward.
> 
> Thanks for the positive response.



I'm glad you know he's not worth it. But one thing there. There's no such thing as a code of honor when it comes to a fight. In a fight anything goes. Most martial artists don't have an actual code or anything they just have common sense and decency not to fight untrained people unless the have to. But sadly there's always going to be some jerks in any type of situation but honestly people like that rarely last in martial arts because they don't have the discipline or the respect to stick it out and learn properly and any decent instructor can work out who's a good student who won't misuse it or someone who's just using it to beat people up


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## lklawson (Dec 8, 2015)

Kenpoguy123 said:


> There's no such thing as a code of honor when it comes to a fight. In a fight anything goes.


I see this claim a lot, usually by self defense advocates.  But it's not actually true.  There almost always really are "rules" in a "fight" in modern America.  There are "rules" of the law (yes, really).  There are "rules" governed by social convention.  There are "rules" governed by class and setting.  If it were not so, literally, every "fight" would end with someone maimed or dead.  This obviously doesn't happen.  The problem is you may not know what the rules are because you are from a different location or social class and the "rules" and conventions of a fight which you are used to may not apply where the fight is taking place.  The person you are "fighting" may have a different set.

The other issue is that, just because there are "rules" and conventions for conducting a "fight" doesn't necessarily mean that the person you are fighting is going to follow them.  *MOST* of the time they will.  But not always.  The prisons are full of violent criminals with poor impulse control who nearly universally admit that they knew and intended to follow the "rules" and conventions before the violent act which landed them in prison happened and admit that they still know and intend to follow them.  But they have a compromised impulse control system and so they get swept away and don't even think they're breaking the rules until afterwards.

That is the person that self defense advocates who issue dire warnings of "there are no rules" are scared to death of.  Fortunately, though they are disproportionately represented in prison, they are, statistically, quite rare in most public settings.

So, yeah, there actually ARE "rules" when it comes to a "fight" and *NO*, it is *NOT *"anything goes."  Unless 1) you didn't cause the encounter ("cause," not "start" -- there's a difference), and 2) you can reasonably articulate that the person you are in a "fight" with you reasonably believed was a legitimate threat of death or serious bodily harm to yourself or an innocent 3rd party, then you *CAN'T* use Deadly Force.  Even if you're afraid he may not be following the "rules," you still have to.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## drop bear (Dec 8, 2015)

lklawson said:


> I see this claim a lot, usually by self defense advocates.  But it's not actually true.  There almost always really are "rules" in a "fight" in modern America.  There are "rules" of the law (yes, really).  There are "rules" governed by social convention.  There are "rules" governed by class and setting.  If it were not so, literally, every "fight" would end with someone maimed or dead.  This obviously doesn't happen.  The problem is you may not know what the rules are because you are from a different location or social class and the "rules" and conventions of a fight which you are used to may not apply where the fight is taking place.  The person you are "fighting" may have a different set.
> 
> The other issue is that, just because there are "rules" and conventions for conducting a "fight" doesn't necessarily mean that the person you are fighting is going to follow them.  *MOST* of the time they will.  But not always.  The prisons are full of violent criminals with poor impulse control who nearly universally admit that they knew and intended to follow the "rules" and conventions before the violent act which landed them in prison happened and admit that they still know and intend to follow them.  But they have a compromised impulse control system and so they get swept away and don't even think they're breaking the rules until afterwards.
> 
> ...



There should be enough hurt available in your rule set to make your martial art viable in self defence. That way if worst case you can't think of a clever dirty tactic. You can still have a fair chance of physically overcoming someone.


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## lklawson (Dec 9, 2015)

drop bear said:


> There should be enough hurt available in your rule set to make your martial art viable in self defence. That way if worst case you can't think of a clever dirty tactic. You can still have a fair chance of physically overcoming someone.


Sure.  If you're practicing Martial Arts for self defense, then your system needs to cover the range from moderated force up through deadly force.  But your training methodology and the tactics you practice needs to be geared so that you can orient on the force continuum and not drop straight to Deadly Force because you mistakenly and foolishly believe that "there are no rules in a street fight." There frack'n well *ARE*.

I remember reading of a case several years ago where a FMA practitioner got into a "fight" with Security at a concert.  He severed the guy's femoral artery and the dude bled out.  For his defense, he claimed that all fights are potentially deadly and the Event Security attacked him (when he was arguing with them about ejecting his drunk friend).  Obviously, he went to prison.

If you're training for Self Defense, and your training methodology doesn't include a way to orient to the proper point on the force continuum, then, frankly, you're leaving yourself wide open to bad stuff happening to you as a result of using or trying to use your martial training.  

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## drop bear (Dec 9, 2015)

lklawson said:


> Sure.  If you're practicing Martial Arts for self defense, then your system needs to cover the range from moderated force up through deadly force.  But your training methodology and the tactics you practice needs to be geared so that you can orient on the force continuum and not drop straight to Deadly Force because you mistakenly and foolishly believe that "there are no rules in a street fight." There frack'n well *ARE*.
> 
> I remember reading of a case several years ago where a FMA practitioner got into a "fight" with Security at a concert.  He severed the guy's femoral artery and the dude bled out.  For his defense, he claimed that all fights are potentially deadly and the Event Security attacked him (when he was arguing with them about ejecting his drunk friend).  Obviously, he went to prison.
> 
> ...



Yeah I agree. There is also a video floating around where a guy got his face elbowed off for trying to bite his way out of mount. On the grounds that any fight you can walk away from is a win. Sometimes you just need to take your beating with good grace.


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