# Belt rankings in kicboxing



## Kickboxer101

So in my kickboxing club there is a belt ranking system. I know a lot of people say there's no belts in kickboxing but well there is in mine and the thing with it is they're not a big deal like there are belt promotion specific lessons but you don't have to learn a set list just show reasonable standard for that level on the pads and higher up with your sparring. But obviously when you get them no one ever wears them because well in kickboxing you just wear workout stuff and not a gi but it's a nice thing to achieve and a sense of achievement for those who don't want to compete. 

I also like how there's no egos based on belts. Like honestly I couldn't tell you what belt anyone in my club is because it's simply not important your not split into groups based on it everyone works with everyone so there's no ego based on that. I mean everyone pretty much knows who the better ones are but it's still all equal and yeah of course it's a commercial thing as well to make money but that's not always a bad thing either I mean the schools need to make money to stay open.

Just wondering if anyone else here has belt rankings in kickboxing gyms.


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## drop bear

I have done one or two that did singlets.


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## Tony Dismukes

I actually have a black belt in a kickboxing system. I don't take it too seriously, given that I only fought in the ring a couple of times and the guy who awarded my rank no longer runs a gym or promotes the art as a separate system. On those occasions where I get roped into covering a kickboxing class for one of the other instructors at my gym, I just wear Thai shorts and a t-shirt.


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## KangTsai

My MMA place. Nobody really takes it seriously, but, what worries me is that my instructor has an "MMA black belt" under his qualifications, which seems... Not right.


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## Tez3

KangTsai said:


> My MMA place. Nobody really takes it seriously, but, what worries me is that my instructor has an "MMA black belt" under his qualifications, which seems... Not right.



Oh no that certainly isn't right! Perhaps you should find somewhere else to train.


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## KangTsai

Tez3 said:


> Oh no that certainly isn't right! Perhaps you should find somewhere else to train.


No no no, the instructor does have a professional MMA record and all his fellows as well and comes from a respectable background which I have 100℅ proof of: the BJJ coach also has relations with a Gracie. I just think the "MMA belt" thing is a bit weird to put on a profile where you're trying to sell classes.

[EDIT] Let's hope he doesn't see this, 
The head of the beginner's is Logan Price
Assistant is Jesse Harrison

Search for them and fights will show up.


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## Tez3

Have you checked his Pro record because all Sherdog has is an ammy one. Logan Price MMA Stats, Pictures, News, Videos, Biography - Sherdog.com


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## Gerry Seymour

KangTsai said:


> My MMA place. Nobody really takes it seriously, but, what worries me is that my instructor has an "MMA black belt" under his qualifications, which seems... Not right.


In other threads, some folks have pointed out that some MMA gyms are putting together complete systems, including some ranking with belts. It seems an odd addition, to me, given the nature of the training. However, I see nothing wrong with it. If he was awarded a black belt by someone who does so in a gym he trained at, then it's as legitimate as a black belt in a TMA - which is to say that it matters only as much as someone thinks it does.


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## Kickboxer101

KangTsai said:


> No no no, the instructor does have a professional MMA record and all his fellows as well and comes from a respectable background which I have 100℅ proof of: the BJJ coach also has relations with a Gracie. I just think the "MMA belt" thing is a bit weird to put on a profile where you're trying to sell classes.
> 
> [EDIT] Let's hope he doesn't see this,
> The head of the beginner's is Logan Price
> Assistant is Jesse Harrison
> 
> Search for them and fights will show up.


May not be the best idea to put instructors names on here it's happened before things posted here get back to instructors just a a bit of advice


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## Tez3

gpseymour said:


> In other threads, some folks have pointed out that some MMA gyms are putting together complete systems, including some ranking with belts. It seems an odd addition, to me, given the nature of the training. However, I see nothing wrong with it. If he was awarded a black belt by someone who does so in a gym he trained at, then it's as legitimate as a black belt in a TMA - which is to say that it matters only as much as someone thinks it does.



The problem though with saying you have an MMA black belt is that no one in the professional  MMA world will take you seriously, mostly because they pride themselves on not having a belt system lol. For most the fights are the things that matter and while there are plenty who train MMA without competing, the idea that there's a syllabus and a ranking system goes completely against the grain. Fight training should be individually tailored once you have got beyond the basics so the idea of following a syllabus is redundant.


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## Gerry Seymour

Tez3 said:


> The problem though with saying you have an MMA black belt is that no one in the professional  MMA world will take you seriously, mostly because they pride themselves on not having a belt system lol. For most the fights are the things that matter and while there are plenty who train MMA without competing, the idea that there's a syllabus and a ranking system goes completely against the grain. Fight training should be individually tailored once you have got beyond the basics so the idea of following a syllabus is redundant.


I agree; that's why I said it seems odd to me. However, the same reaction would happen if someone branched from a ryu (an actual ryu) that had never used ranks to create a new style, and they decided to start using colored belts to match the expectations of students in their area. People from that ryu and those familiar with it would probaly not take those ranks so seriously, but there would be nothing wrong with them (aside, of course, from the split that might damage the ryu's historical consistency). They would serve their purpose no better nor worse for being an oddity in that branch of martial arts. Belts only matter, really, for a few purposes, including making it easy for students to quickly figure out where someone is in the curriculum, providing some comparabilty between schools of the same style and association, and serving the market that expects them.


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## Kickboxer101

gpseymour said:


> I agree; that's why I said it seems odd to me. However, the same reaction would happen if someone branched from a ryu (an actual ryu) that had never used ranks to create a new style, and they decided to start using colored belts to match the expectations of students in their area. People from that ryu and those familiar with it would probaly not take those ranks so seriously, but there would be nothing wrong with them (aside, of course, from the split that might damage the ryu's historical consistency). They would serve their purpose no better nor worse for being an oddity in that branch of martial arts. Belts only matter, really, for a few purposes, including making it easy for students to quickly figure out where someone is in the curriculum, providing some comparabilty between schools of the same style and association, and serving the market that expects them.


Like I said in my original post I think belt ranks are a good idea for things like mma, kickboxing etc because if someone doesn't want to compete then they can go into the belt program and can still set goals to achieve without having to step in the ring which a lot of people won't want to do. That way you'll get more interest in the style.


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## drop bear

Kickboxer101 said:


> Like I said in my original post I think belt ranks are a good idea for things like mma, kickboxing etc because if someone doesn't want to compete then they can go into the belt program and can still set goals to achieve without having to step in the ring which a lot of people won't want to do. That way you'll get more interest in the style.



Gives them something to work towards.


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## drop bear

Hammers gym is one example of a reputable kickboxing that does rankings.


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## Tez3

Kickboxer101 said:


> Like I said in my original post I think belt ranks are a good idea for things like mma, kickboxing etc because if someone doesn't want to compete then they can go into the belt program and can still set goals to achieve without having to step in the ring which a lot of people won't want to do. That way you'll get more interest in the style.



There should be no syllabus for MMA so grading isn't possible, MMA is about the individual. If people can only set goals by doing a system with belts then they should stick to something other than MMA. I know many people who very happily train MMA without wanting either to compete or grade.


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## Gerry Seymour

Tez3 said:


> There should be no syllabus for MMA so grading isn't possible, MMA is about the individual. If people can only set goals by doing a system with belts then they should stick to something other than MMA. I know many people who very happily train MMA without wanting either to compete or grade.


I'm curious, why is a specific curriculum for training contrary to MMA?


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## Tez3

gpseymour said:


> I'm curious, why is a specific curriculum for training contrary to MMA?



Take karate for example, a grading will consist of specific techniques that everyone will do to a certain standard ( hopefully!) the roundhouse kick will be the same for everyone done according to how you are taught. A block will be done the same way by all the class. There is no deviation because a shorter student finds it easier to do the technique a different way or it's more efficient for a taller person to change how they do a technique. You have to do all the techniques and drills all exactly the same. In MMA you find the best techniques that work for you, you tweak them to suit you, you don't bother with other techniques because for you they aren't productive, it's very individual so how do you teach a whole class on a syllabus how to do that? You coach individual fighters, find their strengths, tighten up holes and work towards being an all round good fighter, very hard to do that in a class situation and for everyone to do the same so that you can grade them. You could not bother with a curriculum and gradings so just grade on fights but would you only count winning fights or the points scored? That would also leave out those who wanted just to train not to fight. Boxing doesn't have a curriculum and doesn't have gradings, there's no reason for MMA to have either.


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## Gerry Seymour

Tez3 said:


> Take karate for example, a grading will consist of specific techniques that everyone will do to a certain standard ( hopefully!) the roundhouse kick will be the same for everyone done according to how you are taught. A block will be done the same way by all the class. There is no deviation because a shorter student finds it easier to do the technique a different way or it's more efficient for a taller person to change how they do a technique. You have to do all the techniques and drills all exactly the same. In MMA you find the best techniques that work for you, you tweak them to suit you, you don't bother with other techniques because for you they aren't productive, it's very individual so how do you teach a whole class on a syllabus how to do that? You coach individual fighters, find their strengths, tighten up holes and work towards being an all round good fighter, very hard to do that in a class situation and for everyone to do the same so that you can grade them. You could not bother with a curriculum and gradings so just grade on fights but would you only count winning fights or the points scored? That would also leave out those who wanted just to train not to fight. Boxing doesn't have a curriculum and doesn't have gradings, there's no reason for MMA to have either.



Not all TMAs are as rigid as your example, though. When I teach a technique, I also teach the modifications that would be necessary to adapt to different heights, for example. When I test them, it is up to the student to demonstrate the technique in a way that is appropriate to them and their partner, so a very tall person using my wife (under 5' tall) as a parter for a test would have to shorten their steps and change some stances, at the very least. And while students are expected to be able to demonstrate all of the techniques in part of the testing, in the self-defense testing they are entirely on their own for technique selection.

If someone were practicing MMA for non-competition, it seems the situation would seem to be much the same. An instructor could teach a structured syllabus, so students could learn all the techniuqes and select those that best fit them once they understand them well enough to choose. And those choices often change as people progress in their understanding and ability. That would work well enough with a tiered testing and promotion program.


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## Tez3

gpseymour said:


> Not all TMAs are as rigid as your example, though. When I teach a technique, I also teach the modifications that would be necessary to adapt to different heights, for example. When I test them, it is up to the student to demonstrate the technique in a way that is appropriate to them and their partner, so a very tall person using my wife (under 5' tall) as a parter for a test would have to shorten their steps and change some stances, at the very least. And while students are expected to be able to demonstrate all of the techniques in part of the testing, in the self-defense testing they are entirely on their own for technique selection.
> 
> If someone were practicing MMA for non-competition, it seems the situation would seem to be much the same. An instructor could teach a structured syllabus, so students could learn all the techniuqes and select those that best fit them once they understand them well enough to choose. And those choices often change as people progress in their understanding and ability. That would work well enough with a tiered testing and promotion program.



True enough but why would we grade just because we could? We don't need to unless people want to earn themselves more money. The system isn't broke so why fix it?


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## Kickboxer101

Tez3 said:


> True enough but why would we grade just because we could? We don't need to unless people want to earn themselves more money. The system isn't broke so why fix it?


There didnt use to be belts in karate when it first started now there is. Martial arts are changing all the time maybe one day mma black belts will be a common thing. Mma itself did a lot to change martial arts conceptions so you can't say if it isn't broke don't fix it because if people had stuck with that attitude martial arts would never evolve


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## Tez3

Kickboxer101 said:


> There didnt use to be belts in karate when it first started now there is. Martial arts are changing all the time maybe one day mma black belts will be a common thing. Mma itself did a lot to change martial arts conceptions so you can't say if it isn't broke don't fix it because if people had stuck with that attitude martial arts would never evolve



Of course I can say it, boxing doesn't have belts nor does wrestling so why should MMA have them just because someone wants to make a bit of money on grading fees? Karate was 'invented' for want of a better word for entirely different reasons than MMA. Many people think karate hasn't evolved but has rather gone backwards and become a shadow of what it's supposed to be.. empty hand civilian self defence. For many point sparring and the emphasis on children's classes leading to 10 year old black belts has tarnished karate, gradings have little value in many places so why MMA should have gradings to satisfy those who think a black piece of material around their waists makes then a fighter I don't know.


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## Gerry Seymour

Tez3 said:


> True enough but why would we grade just because we could? We don't need to unless people want to earn themselves more money. The system isn't broke so why fix it?


Grading isn't usually about money. For some students (definitely not all), it is a good way to understand where you are on the path. It can also be an easy cue for who you want to work with. If I were training MMA not for competition, and was at a gym where there were folks I hadn't worked with, grading would let me spot which people were a bit ahead of me - where I'd probably want to work when I'm trying to push myself.

It's by no means necessary, not always useful, and doesn't fit all students. It seems a less-than-optimal fit to MMA, but perhaps that's because the non-grading of MMA has attracted those who aren't interested in grading. If some gyms/schools offer grading, perhaps they draw in a different group of folks who can benefit from that training.


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## Gerry Seymour

Tez3 said:


> Of course I can say it, boxing doesn't have belts nor does wrestling so why should MMA have them just because someone wants to make a bit of money on grading fees? Karate was 'invented' for want of a better word for entirely different reasons than MMA. Many people think karate hasn't evolved but has rather gone backwards and become a shadow of what it's supposed to be.. empty hand civilian self defence. For many point sparring and the emphasis on children's classes leading to 10 year old black belts has tarnished karate, gradings have little value in many places so why MMA should have gradings to satisfy those who think a black piece of material around their waists makes then a fighter I don't know.


The "problems" with karate are only problems if we assume it should only be used to teach empty-hand civilian self-defense. Some folks just want to compete, and there's nothing wrong with that (though it's not my cup of tea). Even the exercise versions (like Blanks' stuff) has a reasonable place, though it has absolutely nothing to do with self-defense.

Now, if those things also drag down the schools legitimately trying to teach karate for self-defense, then it is a problem, but the problem isn't the competitive schools - it's at the schools that changed where they shouldn't have (and, perhaps, failing to change where they should). I think there's a fallacy in referring to karate as a single thing. It's a collective, for sure, but there are groups within that collective with very different goals.


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## Tez3

gpseymour said:


> The "problems" with karate are only problems if we assume it should only be used to teach empty-hand civilian self-defense. Some folks just want to compete, and there's nothing wrong with that (though it's not my cup of tea). Even the exercise versions (like Blanks' stuff) has a reasonable place, though it has absolutely nothing to do with self-defense.
> 
> Now, if those things also drag down the schools legitimately trying to teach karate for self-defense, then it is a problem, but the problem isn't the competitive schools - it's at the schools that changed where they shouldn't have (and, perhaps, failing to change where they should). I think there's a fallacy in referring to karate as a single thing. It's a collective, for sure, but there are groups within that collective with very different goals.



I didn't say nor do I consider there is a problem with karate schools, my answer was specifically aimed at kickboxer who is one of those people you mention as believing karate is one entity when he says karate has evolved. As I said there's many who consider karate as such hasn't evolved but regressed. The subject of karate is a complex one where there are many different views and the one size fits all approach by kickboxer is something that many if not all karateka would disagree with. Saying that karate didn't have a belt system and now does so has moved on and is better is a naïve view. I have a foot in both camps with being involved in MMA for nearly 20 years now and being a karateka for more years than I care to mention. Most like myself feel that MMA doesn't need gradings, they are surplus to needs and we don't need them just to be accepted as a mainstream *sport. *A belt system won't improve MMA, and quite honestly there is no real reason to bring one in.


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## Tony Dismukes

Tez3 said:


> Take karate for example, a grading will consist of specific techniques that everyone will do to a certain standard ( hopefully!) the roundhouse kick will be the same for everyone done according to how you are taught. A block will be done the same way by all the class. There is no deviation because a shorter student finds it easier to do the technique a different way or it's more efficient for a taller person to change how they do a technique. You have to do all the techniques and drills all exactly the same.



Counterpoint - most BJJ schools don't have gradings of the sort you describe. There is no set curriculum and students are not required to do techniques the same way. We still have a belt system. (Some schools do have standardized curriculum and tests with techniques that must be done a specific way, but they are in the minority.)



Tez3 said:


> Most like myself feel that MMA doesn't need gradings, they are surplus to needs and we don't need them just to be accepted as a mainstream *sport. *A belt system won't improve MMA, and quite honestly there is no real reason to bring one in.



In general, I agree with you. However an alternate view comes from one of the top MMA coaches in the world - Greg Jackson. His school does have a MMA belt ranking system. I don't think his professional fighters bother with it. It's more focused on students who want to train MMA as a martial art and who may or may not ever compete in the cage.


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## Kickboxer101

Tony Dismukes said:


> Counterpoint - most BJJ schools don't have gradings of the sort you describe. There is no set curriculum and students are not required to do techniques the same way. We still have a belt system. (Some schools do have standardized curriculum and tests with techniques that must be done a specific way, but they are in the minority.)
> 
> 
> 
> In general, I agree with you. However an alternate view comes from one of the top MMA coaches in the world - Greg Jackson. His school does have a MMA belt ranking system. I don't think his professional fighters bother with it. It's more focused on students who want to train MMA as a martial art and who may or may not ever compete in the cage.



I was going to say that about jiu jitsu but I couldn't be sure so I didn't want to say. But yeah that's what I thought jiu jitsu does promotions based on your improvement not looking a specific set of moves for that specific belt.


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## Tez3

Tony Dismukes said:


> Counterpoint - most BJJ schools don't have gradings of the sort you describe. There is no set curriculum and students are not required to do techniques the same way. We still have a belt system. (Some schools do have standardized curriculum and tests with techniques that must be done a specific way, but they are in the minority.)
> 
> 
> 
> In general, I agree with you. However an alternate view comes from one of the top MMA coaches in the world - Greg Jackson. His school does have a MMA belt ranking system. I don't think his professional fighters bother with it. It's more focused on students who want to train MMA as a martial art and who may or may not ever compete in the cage.



Well, it keeps the money coming in doesn't it? That's not a cynical remark btw, MMA doesn't actually pay as much as you'd think and bills have to be paid.
However the argument that because karate has belts and has 'evolved' therefore MMA should have belts is a redundant one.
I know quite a few BJJ places here if not the majority who have a set curriculum for belt tests so again kickboxer you are wrong because as Tony says some BJJ places do have them. I was however comparing MMA with boxing not BJJ for a reason.
MMA doesn't need a curriculum and belts for validation by people like kickboxer who thinks karate is just one thing. It is what it is and if people want to earn some extra cash by holding gradings then I'm not going to naysay them, just please don't think that MMA needs gradings to be considered legitimate or to become 'better'.


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## Kickboxer101

Tez3 said:


> Well, it keeps the money coming in doesn't it? That's not a cynical remark btw, MMA doesn't actually pay as much as you'd think and bills have to be paid.
> However the argument that because karate has belts and has 'evolved' therefore MMA should have belts is a redundant one.
> I know quite a few BJJ places here if not the majority who have a set curriculum for belt tests so again kickboxer you are wrong because as Tony says some BJJ places do have them. I was however comparing MMA with boxing not BJJ for a reason.
> MMA doesn't need a curriculum and belts for validation by people like kickboxer who thinks karate is just one thing. It is what it is and if people want to earn some extra cash by holding gradings then I'm not going to naysay them, just please don't think that MMA needs gradings to be considered legitimate or to become 'better'.


why're you talking to me your quoting him yet you're mentioning me seriously what is it with you everything thing I post you argue with even when I made a post saying karate was in the Olympics you made some comment oh do you really believe it's permanent. Every time I post I expect to see a comment from you


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## Tez3

Kickboxer101 said:


> My god you seem to have an obsession with me you keep talking to me even when I'm not talking to you.



Don't flatter yourself, you obviously don't know how forums work, they are discussion boards open to everyone who has joined and if you make comments in your posts that people either agree or disagree with then you will find they comment on those posts.
You made statements that I disagreed with, so I wrote refuting your assertions about karate.
The only one making this personal is you.


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## Buka

Kickboxer101 said:


> why're you talking to me your quoting him yet you're mentioning me seriously what is it with you everything thing I post you argue with even when I made a post saying karate was in the Olympics you made some comment oh do you really believe it's permanent. Every time I post I expect to see a comment from you



Well, you know, bro, all you really need to do is look at a world map.







(all meant in fun, of course)


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## Tez3

Kickboxer101 said:


> why're you talking to me your quoting him yet you're mentioning me seriously what is it with you everything thing I post you argue with even when I made a post saying karate was in the Olympics you made some comment oh do you really believe it's permanent. Every time I post I expect to see a comment from you



You really need to get over yourself, you are one poster among many, you post on here and people answer those posts myself included. I do notice that you only complain when you are disagreed with, any post I agree with you don't complain lol. Get over it.


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## Deleted member 34973

Really, I think it depends on the instructor or coach to determine a ranking system. Take kung fu, some schools have a ranking system and some schools do not.

Eventually, some mma will adopt a ranking system as to where some do not. Me personally, I do not care for mma and it doesnt matter to me if they do or not. Most sports do not have a ranking system, so I dont see why mma should be judged on whether or not they have a ranking system.


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## drop bear

Guthrie said:


> Really, I think it depends on the instructor or coach to determine a ranking system. Take kung fu, some schools have a ranking system and some schools do not.
> 
> Eventually, some mma will adopt a ranking system as to where some do not. Me personally, I do not care for mma and it doesnt matter to me if they do or not. Most sports do not have a ranking system, so I dont see why mma should be judged on whether or not they have a ranking system.



Some sports do though. Gymnastics for example.






Rankings have helped mainstream a lot of martial arts. And are quite often a fairly new concept.


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## Paul_D

gpseymour said:


> Grading isn't usually about money.


My experience of Karate in the UK is that it is very much about the money.


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## Kickboxer101

Paul_D said:


> My experience of Karate in the UK is that it is very much about the money.


Yeah have to agree there why can't they just grade in a normal class say lower belts one night higher belts next night. I know some clubs do that but most have this big test date that's usually on a random day outside of usual training hours and usually costs tripple what a normal class would


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## drop bear

Kickboxer101 said:


> Yeah have to agree there why can't they just grade in a normal class say lower belts one night higher belts next night. I know some clubs do that but most have this big test date that's usually on a random day outside of usual training hours and usually costs tripple what a normal class would



It has to be important otherwise what is the point? 

Ritual has its merits.


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## Gerry Seymour

Tez3 said:


> Well, it keeps the money coming in doesn't it? That's not a cynical remark btw, MMA doesn't actually pay as much as you'd think and bills have to be paid.
> However the argument that because karate has belts and has 'evolved' therefore MMA should have belts is a redundant one.
> I know quite a few BJJ places here if not the majority who have a set curriculum for belt tests so again kickboxer you are wrong because as Tony says some BJJ places do have them. I was however comparing MMA with boxing not BJJ for a reason.
> MMA doesn't need a curriculum and belts for validation by people like kickboxer who thinks karate is just one thing. It is what it is and if people want to earn some extra cash by holding gradings then I'm not going to naysay them, just please don't think that MMA needs gradings to be considered legitimate or to become 'better'.


I'm not sure why you keep referring to grading as a money-maker. Yes, some schools do structure it that way, but it's actually a money-loser for many instructors, given the amount of time it takes away from other activities.


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## Gerry Seymour

Paul_D said:


> My experience of Karate in the UK is that it is very much about the money.


As I've posted elsewhere, I have seen schools that made it about the money. One my instructors (Judo and Karate) actually left one of his organizations because of that practice, so I've been aware of it for a while. However, of all of the instructors I've met, worked with, trained under, and visited, the vast majority either charge nothing (losing money), charge enough to cover the cost of the belt and certificate (losing less money), or charge just enough to cover that and some of the extra time it takes them (maybe not losing money). Only a few charge enough to actually make more money than if they didn't do the grading at all.

That of course, isn't the UK. I've never been there, so I can't speak to the environment.


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## Gerry Seymour

Kickboxer101 said:


> Yeah have to agree there why can't they just grade in a normal class say lower belts one night higher belts next night. I know some clubs do that but most have this big test date that's usually on a random day outside of usual training hours and usually costs tripple what a normal class would


I've noticed when folks post the cost of training in the UK, it seems to be lower than in the US. Maybe this is where they're making up that difference?


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## Tez3

Instructors who can afford not to charge for gradings are few and far between here. We don't have big chains of martial arts schools, they are mostly small clubs who train in leisure centres, village and community halls, few own or can afford a dedicated building. There's rent to pay, travel costs etc, gradings are basically the only way to make ends meet. The student fees aren't high, the 'market' wouldn't take it. I've said before it's not a bad thing charging for gradings, it's a very important way for instructors to manage. We don't have the children's after school club type martial arts classes not the children's parties. Martial arts are not a way to earn a living here. We have a handful of professional MMA fighters who mostly also work with the top layer going to live in the US.
Martial arts in the UK is quite different from what I've seen people post about in the US.


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## Gerry Seymour

Tez3 said:


> Instructors who can afford not to charge for gradings are few and far between here. We don't have big chains of martial arts schools, they are mostly small clubs who train in leisure centres, village and community halls, few own or can afford a dedicated building. There's rent to pay, travel costs etc, gradings are basically the only way to make ends meet. The student fees aren't high, the 'market' wouldn't take it. I've said before it's not a bad thing charging for gradings, it's a very important way for instructors to manage. We don't have the children's after school club type martial arts classes not the children's parties. Martial arts are not a way to earn a living here. We have a handful of professional MMA fighters who mostly also work with the top layer going to live in the US.
> Martial arts in the UK is quite different from what I've seen people post about in the US.



Most of what you said accurately describes my program. Apparently, I'm a British MA instructor, and didn't know it.


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## Tez3

gpseymour said:


> Most of what you said accurately describes my program. Apparently, I'm a British MA instructor, and didn't know it.



So you are a damn good one then!
Martial arts isn't a big thing here which I don't actually know whether that's good or bad. It's still quite old fashioned. Money is always tight, many instructors subsidise the clubs and classes just out of love basically.


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