# The Mystery of the lop-sided dojang



## Ryun Ma (May 4, 2010)

As in many martial arts schools, when told to line up most up the gup ranks(under black belt students) sprint to get 'their spot' in line....which is usually the highest spot among their rank class. In my school it's sad and obnoxious to see, and a punishment comes with such cocky behavior when students 'jockey' for rank but often times us Instructors laugh because it's amazing what students would to for 'their spot'. Anyways the topic here is this...in rank groupings(whether gup or dan) how do you line up in your groups. There has to be many deciding factors because neither time nor seniority explain it sometimes....sometimes you have people of equal rank and seniority,etc. So what's your schools checklist?
Mine has an unsaid list that goes as follows:
-physical rank(number)
-title rank(KSN,SBN, Etc)
-time in rank
-skill
-attendance
-age

Not like it ever comes down to all this things, most senior ranking folks don't have an issue with this. and i think it's commical because of everyone in my school i probably think the least of rank, i think it hold very little water and would rather wear a white belt than my own. But what are your school's thoughts?


----------



## Carol (May 4, 2010)

That doesn't sound like a lining-up issue.  That sounds like a dojang culture that is putting way too much emphasis on rank.


----------



## Xue Sheng (May 4, 2010)

No rank.... Traditional Chinese Martial Arts



Carol said:


> That doesn't sound like a lining-up issue. That sounds like a dojang culture that is putting way too much emphasis on rank.


 
Agreed, I was going to say it sounds like this school is more concerned about rank than training... but you beat me to it....but then I went and said it anyway


----------



## clfsean (May 4, 2010)

Xue Sheng said:


> No rank.... Traditional Chinese Martial Arts


 
Same here... Sifu in front... everybody else fend for yourself. 




Xue Sheng said:


> Agreed, I was going to say it sounds like this school is more concerned about rank than training... but you beat me to it....but then I went and said it anyway



Said to say, but isn't that what "most" commercial MA schools (intentional or not) promote?


----------



## dancingalone (May 4, 2010)

If you practice a system that does recognize rank as I do, I think it's a valid dojo/dojang custom to line up by rank.  Not only is a small nod to your personal achievement, the senior students serve as a physical example to the juniors who are behind them.

That said, there shouldn't have to be an ornate calculus to determine whom is ahead of whom.  I go strictly by belt rank and then age.  If there is a small question between 2 people, I encourage the idea that courtesy comes first, and courtesy freely offered honors the giver.  

We have no such involved checklist in my dojo and none is needed.


----------



## jks9199 (May 4, 2010)

We keep it simple.

Seniority, measured by belt & time-in-grade.  Adults are by definition senior to kids; we usually make the adult/kid break somewhere around 16.


----------



## DavidCC (May 4, 2010)

We line up by height, tallest in the back, rank is not considered.


----------



## Korppi76 (May 5, 2010)

In some arts I train we line up by ranks/belt color and inside that belt/rankgroup there is no matter where you stand. 
And other arts we just make line no matter of rank.


----------



## Blindside (May 5, 2010)

DavidCC said:


> We line up by height, tallest in the back, rank is not considered.


 
I like that, not that multiple lines is ever a problem in my class, but should I ever run into it, that would be a good pattern.


----------



## DMcHenry (May 5, 2010)

I have seen this too, to much importance by the students on who lines up in front of who.  When all is equal, I don't care where they line up they they sure raced to get ahead of the ohter.

I remember one senior gup student who I believed quit because he missed a tested and another student who he felt he was senior to was promoted, and thus was able to line up in front of him from there after.  That's just sad.

But just like "belts", all that stuff can get very important and a motivating factor to students.  Guess that's one of the reasons I retired from active teaching students.


----------



## Ryun Ma (May 5, 2010)

Carol said:


> That doesn't sound like a lining-up issue. That sounds like a dojang culture that is putting way too much emphasis on rank.


 

No, it is a lining up issue. Many schools have it. I was just looking for other school's take on it and how they handle it. Perhaps I'll word my questioning more carefully next time. I emphasize that rank means close to nothing...it's merely an organizational tool. To put emphasis on rank would be a mistake, one that we are clear not to make. It is often amoung the kids that this occurs(and teens) but sometimes you'll even see adults do it. I know that it's not an isolated thing so i was just curious if other Instructors and Masters thought it was as comical and sad as i do and to see their take on it, particularly to just stimulate basic conversation which the forums seem to be lacking lately.


----------

