# Emotional/mental manipulation....



## loki09789 (Dec 3, 2004)

What are some tactics/techniques that people have used (either successfully or not) in an attempt to steer a potential or actual attackers mind from the intent of physical violence?

Here is a for instance:

You are confronted by a grumpy, hostile guy who is all worked up that you had a bumper bender accident and is getting worked up. Response do not have to be within the context of this scenario by any means.

Firstly, what do you do to keep yourself from being inappropriately emotional or reactive/defensive (and therefore easily drawn into argument/fighting).

Secondly, what verbal judo/body language types of techniques do you use to get this guy 'under control' so to speak?

I don't know if I have set this up well, if it is confusing let me know and I will try to clarify.


----------



## Touch Of Death (Dec 3, 2004)

comedy is a plus. If you get a grumpy guy laughing he stops feeling like such a victim. Kind words help too. More fights happen because people can't keep there big mouth shut than any of us can count. Attitude is always first.
Sean


----------



## INDYFIGHTER (Dec 3, 2004)

Kill'em with kindness!:wavey:  I try to always keep smiling.  Even when I'm being called every name in the book I can keep a smile.  I just try to get through to them that we don't have to go there, and I'd rather we didn't.  I've talked my way out of several situations but I have no pride, unless your touching me or someone I care about I could care less what's coming from your mouth.


----------



## mj_lover (Dec 3, 2004)

make it seem that you are calm, even if your not, stay polite, never blame sombody for something, (not even yourself) and never raise your voice. just my 2 cents


----------



## TigerWoman (Dec 3, 2004)

I think staying calm, kind-smiling, refrain from arguing, joking are all good.  Since most guys like football, start talking about "you like football, boy isn't our team doing great or something positive"  to get his mind off the problem at hand.  You can relate it to football, stuff happens, just got to deal with it-exchange information. Who knows, the guy might have just lost his job, had a crummy day and the accident becomes the piec 'd resistance. (sp?) So calming him down is the most important. TW


----------



## Zepp (Dec 3, 2004)

With most people, just remaining calm, and controlling the tone of your voice usually works pretty well.  Rational people, even if they're an *******, will rarely remain on the offense if they don't receive the positive feedback they're looking for.  Before you begin speaking to them, it's a good idea to exhale and relax your body.  It'll help you stay calm.

With irrational people, it can be a bit of a different story...

I used to live with this female housemate who was definitely not rational.  She was also the ex-girlfriend of my then roommate, and she never took their break-up well.  She would often start stupid yelling arguments for the tiniest of things, and this eventually progressed toward hitting her ex if he didn't respond the way she wanted.  When she tried some of the same BS with me, I would usually just smile stupidly, or roll my eyes, or do other things that would piss her off, but also confuse her too much for her to do anything violent.  She always eventually just got tired of it and ran off.  (Also, if she did attack me, I was pretty sure I could hit her upside the head with the nearest heavy object before she got close.  :EG: )

Anothe rexample, once when I was at a concert, the guy behind me start talking to me in an agitated, drunken, and very inarticulate manner (muttering something about "his people").  Fortunately, my friend was there to calm him down with the three magic words, "[/U]it's cool yo."

The thing to keep in mind is that all these kinds of situations need to be felt out in order to determine the appropriate response that will keep you out of trouble.  There isn't one magic response that will always work.


----------



## shesulsa (Dec 3, 2004)

Good suggestions.

 I also try to identify with them.  If they're angry and approach me with harsh words, I usually just look at them, put my hands up in front of me and say something like, "I know, I know - I'm upset too.  Neither of us needed this to happen today.  Are you all right?  Are you hurt?  Anyone else in the car?"  Then I try to draw attention to what we need to do - exchange IDs, insurance information and identify with their frustration.

 Usually if people feel understood and you can remain calm anger will begin to dissolve.


----------



## Zepp (Dec 3, 2004)

I feel dumb for having missed my chance to edit my post above.  This is what I intended the screwy part of it to look like.



			
				Zepp said:
			
		

> Fortunately, my friend was there to calm him down with the three magic words, "it's cool yo."


----------



## Paul Genge (Dec 4, 2004)

There are lots of thibgs you can do to calm manipulate a situation prior to it becoming a fight.  It will depend on a variety of things including the enviroment, the opponents mental capacity, if they have consumed any drugs or alcohol, their mental state at the time of the incident, ect...

One of the tactics I use regularly is to manouver your opponent into a position of disadvantage.  If possible get them to sit down.  I might say, "Come on let's sit down and talk about......" As I do this I might have to also sit dow to gain their trust.  If I do this I will sit at a position higher than they are.  Often in a domestic environment this will be on the arm of a chair.  Once they are sat down I am then able to stand and move around so long as I do this calmly and naturally.  This works for me in a LEO's enviroment.  Often the opponent will not become angry because they are in a subconciously vulnerable position.  If they do decide to fight they have to stand up first giving plenty of opportunity to change my approach.

Paul Genge
http://www.russianmartialart.org.uk


----------



## still learning (Dec 5, 2004)

Hello, Getting into any accidents is not fun, and some people really get mad too!. Yep! Being calm helps ,never argue, don't blame anyone, and don't get mad too, wait for the police and tell them what happen. Always make sure everone is OK. It is also a good idea to keep on other side of the car if the person is mad,angry,enrage,and yelling at you, keep moving on the other side. Being agreeable does help calming the other person, to a extent. Use proper judgement. 

 For yourself, try to relax, breath in, breath out slowly ,focus on the breathing and calm yourself down. Look for the positive side of the events. Don't pay any attention to what the other person is saying,in one ear and out the other. Learn to be deaf and observe the whole surroundings......Focus on proper thoughts....Aloha


----------



## Adept (Dec 5, 2004)

still learning said:
			
		

> Don't pay any attention to what the other person is saying,in one ear and out the other. Learn to be deaf and observe the whole surroundings


 I dont know that this is such good advice. The rest of your post was good, but I disagree with this bit. 'Blocking out' any of the actions (including verbal ones) may lead to you missing some cues that indicate violence is at hand. It could also mean you miss an opportunity to defuse the situation.

 For myself, I would just try to keep everyone as calm as possible. I dont know what it is about cars, but road rage is a fairly well known phenomena. People get shot and stabbed all the time for fender benders, or even just cutting people off. If a person is truly commited to doing violence to me or my passengers, then you have to be ready to deal with that (even if that is just planting to foot and getting the hell out of there). Often times simple apologies and prompt following of the proper procedure is all that is needed. Always remember that violence is an extreme we want to avoid. Take all possible measures to do so.


----------



## loki09789 (Dec 6, 2004)

These are good general ideas folks.  But, when it comes to things like 'not blaming' or 'keeping your voice calm'...what specific things would you do to accomplish this?  In reference to the calm voice thing, if the person (regardless of whether it is a fender bender or an antagonistic party goer or what ever) how do you make sure 'calm voice' doesn't spill into 'patronizing' or 'talking to him/her like he/she is an idiot...?'  - which will actually escalate a situation.


DICLAIMER:  THis is going to be Paul linking teacher talk to self defense so turn up your head phones if you don't want to pay attention (as the students try to do regularly).

I use this thing called the 6 writing traits + presentation that translates nicely to this 'verbal judo' situational tool IMO:

1.Idea
2.Organization
3.Voice
4.Word Choice
5.Fluency
6.Conventions/Grammar
PLUS
Presentation

1.  What is the main point of your communication:  Getting information, getting out of there w/o getting hurt, getting the other guy to leave..... what is the purpose?
2.  No matter what things fall into intro, body, conclusion elements.  What are you going to do to 'set up' your discussion/communication to accomplish your goal, when are you going to whammie the main idea, and how are you going to wrap it up?
3.  Voice is usually 'formal' or 'informal' but here it might mean more than that.  Should you try to sound like an authority and take charge or more 'earthy' and just 'plain folks' to make sure you are heard and don't wind the other party up even more.
4.  Once you know what 'voice' to use, use words that will keep that 'tone' going.
5.  Communication flow is like martial art flow.  Keep/get their attention by using longer and shorter strings of communication in variation to keep their attention going where you want it.
6.  In ELA class, this is usually the part where grammar and punctuation is a big deal.  Translating 6traits to this means that you have to use effective pauses, eye contact, social 'conventions' of handshakes, distance, business cards that are consistent with the 'voice' you decided on earlier.

PRESENTATION:  Here is where being aware and reading the other person and his/her reactions is key.  As you are doing all this verbal judo stuff, you will have to be constantly adjusting your deliver based on how the he/she is responding NOT on what you think is best to do - be adaptive.  If your attempt at 'formal' is getting a 'patronized defensiveness' in the other person's reaction, adjust, adjust, adjust...

This is really involved as a conceptual structure, but it is just a way of observing the flow process of trying to get out of there with words alone.  My point in applying this to my Self Defense is so that I can say "Oh, maybe my voice/tone" isn't working here, adjust it.  Or "I am using words that are not working (either because of a lack of comprehension or causing some 'snooty' message that isn't intended),"  adjust it.

Its just a tool to identify where and what needs to be changed quickly by recognizing which 'category' the mistake fits in and pulling from that pool of corrective measures.  Reduces the choice flow chart IMO - therefore creating mental speed.


----------



## GAB (Dec 6, 2004)

Hi Paul,

When all else fails in this situation....

Cell phone, 911 and let them hear the noise in the background stammer in your voice, stay away from the person and they might calm down, if they don't...CLUE...

The last traffic accident I had was the guy hit me with a side swipe and kept going, I followed him for a mile or so on the Fwy flashing my lights (at night) he pulled off of the Fwy went into a service station. 
DUI when he got out of car was staggering around, big Aikita in vehicle, another person saw it and helped me control the situation called 911 CHP was there in a heartbeat.

Someone else had called in prior, guy was on the ground waiting for them...

Turned out he was a diabetic and had not eaten in a long time got a few sugery items into him, his attitude changed quite a bit and then it was handled by the CHP.

Very little damage to either vehicle, so it was not handled by the Insurance Co's at all. Boy, talk about the biggest rip off in the American community of ripoffs...Insurance...I will not go there.

Regards, Gary


----------



## Adept (Dec 6, 2004)

Loki, fantastic post. Said everything I meant to, but much better than I would have.


----------



## loki09789 (Dec 7, 2004)

Adept said:
			
		

> Loki, fantastic post. Said everything I meant to, but much better than I would have.


In training, 'The Devil is in the details' so to speak whether it is communication, physical training or tactical training, you spend a lot of time internally focused.

In application, getting caught up in the details is a distraction and you should be externally focused...reading the other people, the environment, ....

Things like this 6 traits thing, the OODA loops and such are really 'training things' that should be forgotten during application and just let it flow, 'in the moment' is the wrong time to be trying to educate yourself.

If it works for you as a way to figure out where in the process you had a goof, then you can focus on that area for train ups after the fact...

Glad it was good stuff for you.


----------



## OC Kid (Dec 7, 2004)

I usually will just ignore there rude comments and go get my ins info ect and give it to them.  I just dont play the game which exactly what it is.


----------



## Zepp (Dec 8, 2004)

loki09789 said:
			
		

> I use this thing called the 6 writing traits + presentation that translates nicely to this 'verbal judo' situational tool IMO:
> 
> 1.Idea
> 2.Organization
> ...



Aha!  I thought I smelled an ulterior motive brewing behind this thread.   Thanks for putting everything so succinctly.


----------



## loki09789 (Dec 8, 2004)

Zepp said:
			
		

> Aha! I thought I smelled an ulterior motive brewing behind this thread.  Thanks for putting everything so succinctly.


Well, yeah.  I have my tools in my tool box.  At least this time I waited to see what other people were using first.  

I am still interested in what tools others have in theirs...if they look good, I will buy one just like it and put it in my tool box.  Or, as RP and other PI instructors are infamous for, "I like that, I will steal it..."


----------



## sgtmac_46 (Dec 20, 2004)

loki09789 said:
			
		

> What are some tactics/techniques that people have used (either successfully or not) in an attempt to steer a potential or actual attackers mind from the intent of physical violence?
> 
> Here is a for instance:
> 
> ...


Verbal Judo has helped me considerably in my law enforcement career.  As you are perfectly aware of Verbal Judo, i'll tell you what i've learned from my study of psychology as it relates to Verbal Judo.

First, you have to keep in mind that there are two basic kinds of aggression, defensive and predatory. Having that in mind, in your scenerio it helps to understand that the type of aggression this man is showing is purely defensive. He is frustrated about the accident, and feels he has a need to defend himself somehow. You defuse that by not responding with defensive aggression of your own, therefore not escalating the situation. He feels wronged, and he wants things made right. Don't get the kind of defensive body language that he's adopting, that's a start. Also, begin by using words that aren't "You" statements. Don't be accusatory. DO NOT tell him to calm down, he thinks he is calm. Tell him, instead, that this situation will be worked out. It's going to be ok. You're willing to do whatever it takes to make things better. Ask if he needs anything, show empathy towards him. It will be hard for him to continue to be upset, if you're being empathetic towards him. Show genuine concern about his well being. If he tries to insult you, tell him that you understand he's had a bad day, and you're not upset. Continue this line of dialogue, accepting his verbal aggression as if you perfectly understand that he's upset, and you really want to help him. 

That's how you deal with defensive aggression, by diffusing it. Understand what i'm saying, though, learn the difference between defensive and predatory aggression. The solution to one is the OPPOSITE of the solution to the other.  People who are defending themselves attack out of fear of losing something...Fear of losing their freedom...fear of losing their loved one.....fear of losing face....fear of losing something tangible...etc
Predatory aggression is about taking something.  It's about power, control, domination and destruction.  Predators attack because they have decided there is a low risk target with a potential for some sort of gain.


----------

