# Martial Arts and Men's Ministry



## ynnad

Just received my BB in Taekwondo and passed my first level instructor test (there are three in our curriculum). I am a pastor and am looking for ways to start teaching. We have a school and offer aftercare at our church, so I'm going to start a class for our aftercare program. 

I have also been thinking about a Martial Arts Men's Night for our church. It would just be a time for the guys of our church to get together and learn a little self defense, get to kick some things and each other, fellowship of course, and maybe introduce some friends to our group. Is this something anyone else has seen? Do you think there would be interest?


----------



## Omar B

Offer a solid class and people will show, regardless of religious affiliation. Maybe open it to women too, just talking about men seems a bit one sided ... unless that's like a thing with keeping the sexes separate with you guys.


----------



## girlbug2

I get it, a Men's fellowship that also teaches self defense? Not a bad idea.


----------



## Flea

I think MA and ministry make a great combo!  But if you wanted to be gender-exclusive I'd much rather see you you offer SD to just the women.  We need it more, both from the physical safety standpoint and also for the self-confidence and other psychological benefits.  Men can have all the macho sports they want just for the asking.


----------



## Carol

The arts as a fellowship for men doesn't strike me as a bad idea.  

There are also a lot of activities that are closed to women because of childcare concerns.  If you can offer a fellowship for women that also offers some sort of supervised care for the kiddos, that may be a very valuable service.

This may be something that can grow in to a co-ed class as well, while still retaining separate fellowships for male bonding or female bonding.  Lots of possibilities.


----------



## Ken Morgan

The aftercare sounds like a great idea.

But what are you trying to do with the guys? Self defence? Actually teach serious/somewhat serious TKD? A social thing for an hour then have a coffee, cookies and chat? I would be more inclined to open a TKD class one or two days a week, and see what the response is, then maybe add a mens or womens only class.


----------



## Bill Mattocks

girlbug2 said:


> I get it, a Men's fellowship that also teaches self defense? Not a bad idea.



Iron John, Fire in the Belly, that kind of thing.  Men's Movement - an early '90's thing, it seems so long ago now.


----------



## ynnad

The point is not so much to start a martial arts club, per se. I have thought about that. If I were to do this, I would merely use the church space but it would be its own entity, and of course all would be invited. I'm not sure I am ready for that, though I would like to get to that point soon. At this point I was thinking of a way to get into teaching and also find a way of drawing in some of our guys who are a little more disconnected. I'm not trying to be gender exclusive for the purpose of being exclusive, I just know there would be many guys and most girls who would not participate if it were both genders. We also already have a women's only group that comes and works out to various videos. I have inquired to the leader of that group that I would love to come in a do some cardio kickboxing or some women's self defense if she wants me to.

Speaking of martial arts in church, does anyone know of any successful clubs or full blown schools that are run exclusively out of a church?
Thanks for all the feedback.


----------



## Ken Morgan

ynnad said:


> Speaking of martial arts in church, does anyone know of any successful clubs or full blown schools that are run exclusively out of a church?
> Thanks for all the feedback.


 
I have a good friend who has been running his karate and iaido dojo in a church basement for many, many years. 

I have another friend who ran his the same way until the demand became to much and he had to move to a larger space. (good problem to have!!)

I don't believe they are associated with the churches per say, but all are welcome.


----------



## Flea

The thread reminded me of this novel, a favorite that's stuck with me for many years.  I'll have to find it and re-read it.  I thank you.


----------



## Carol

ynnad said:


> Speaking of martial arts in church, does anyone know of any successful clubs or full blown schools that are run exclusively out of a church?
> Thanks for all the feedback.



Mr. Dan Farmer, who posts here as Sigung86.  He has many, many years in American Kenpo, and as far as I know he runs his group out of his church in the Midwest.  He's not a pastor, just doing it for the community.


----------



## kungfu penguin

i can see offering a men only thing   i have a friend who is in a church  and *no man* enters her house until her husband comes home  that way she follows the principle of "avoid all appearences of evil"  this way her hubby wont come home and mistake an innocent laugh with a male friend and read it wrong     i think this is taking it too far  but i also respect her beliefs on this.   maybe as a pastor  he wants to avoid any perceived inappropriateness   as a teacher  if i have a few girls in my class  my door is wide open  i dont care if its 10 below zero   so if i ran a female's class i would want a few women there that i thouroughly trust  so that i have witnesses that i was acting in the right and not have it bite me in the butt later!


----------



## Tez3

kungfu penguin said:


> i can see offering a men only thing i have a friend who is in a church and *no man* enters her house until her husband comes home that way she follows the principle of "avoid all appearences of evil" this way her hubby wont come home and mistake an innocent laugh with a male friend and read it wrong i think this is taking it too far but i also respect her beliefs on this. maybe as a pastor he wants to avoid any perceived inappropriateness as a teacher if i have a few girls in my class my door is wide open i dont care if its 10 below zero so if i ran a female's class i would want a few women there that i thouroughly trust so that i have witnesses that i was acting in the right and not have it bite me in the butt later!


 
Nothing like trust in a relationship is there.
If you teach women I'd suggest you also make them wear scarves, veils, long sleeves and shoes.


----------



## Ken Morgan

Tez3 said:


> If you teach women I'd suggest you also make them wear scarves, veils, long sleeves and shoes.


 
And nothing else TEZ??


----------



## Tez3

Ken Morgan said:


> And nothing else TEZ??


 
LOL!

Well if kungfu penguin is going to see sin everywhere we might as well give him something to really thnk about!


----------



## jks9199

Slight misreading here, folks.  No point casting aspersions wrongly.  Kungfu Penguin was talking about a friend's personal choice not to be alone her house with a man, not his expectations of his wife.  And about wise precautions today for anyone teaching women...


----------



## girlbug2

I think Kung Fu Penguin was talking about CYA. Maybe it's another cultural thing but here in the states an instructor could easily be sued for things like sexual abuse on the say so of somebody who is in a closed room with the instructor for even short periods of time (most commonly if the student was a female and the instructor male, but I'm sure it has happened the other way around, also). So many Americans have to think as if paranoid just to cover ourselves legally in student/instructor situations. It's got nothing to do with personal trust issues or with imagining sin.


----------



## Tez3

What sort of place do you guys live in? You have to watch how things look when you teach women? You have to cover yourselves in case you get sued, dear lord, McDonalds was bad enough, I really really hope you don't send that over here. Leaving doors open, witnesses in case it looks like you are doing something wrong? Oh my.
I don't think you know how seriously strange your posts sound to a non American.


----------



## jks9199

Tez3 said:


> What sort of place do you guys live in? You have to watch how things look when you teach women? You have to cover yourselves in case you get sued, dear lord, McDonalds was bad enough, I really really hope you don't send that over here. Leaving doors open, witnesses in case it looks like you are doing something wrong? Oh my.
> I don't think you know how seriously strange your posts sound to a non American.


Strange as they may sound... it's a fact of life.  A male instructor would be unwise not to take precautions to avoid allegations in the US today.  There are plenty of threads that illustrate this, if you look around.


----------



## Tez3

I train as one of two females in a male class, the other female being my daughter, I teach an all male class. I have been doing MA for donkeys years now with various groups and never has this ever arisen. I have worked in an all male environment many times, my shift partners are male and again never has the subject even been mentioned about females.
It makes it sound as if you think females are dangerous and no male thats not related to a woman should be in a room with them, it also sounds similiar to something you would find in certain middle eastern countries.
I'm sorry but there's something very wrong when men and women have to take precautions against 'allegations'.


----------



## Brian King

*ynnad wrote*


> Just received my BB in Taekwondo and passed my first level instructor test (there are three in our curriculum). I am a pastor and am looking for ways to start teaching. We have a school and offer aftercare at our church, so I'm going to start a class for our aftercare program.
> 
> I have also been thinking about a Martial Arts Men's Night for our church. It would just be a time for the guys of our church to get together and learn a little self defense, get to kick some things and each other, fellowship of course, and maybe introduce some friends to our group. Is this something anyone else has seen? Do you think there would be interest?


&#12288;
Congratulations on your BB Pastor.
I think that a martial program tied into your churchs aftercare programs will be a great thing for the children and families while allowing you to grow both as a pastor and as a martial artist.

There are few places that men can go to grow. Few places that men can go to honestly explore pride/ego, fears and their weaknesses while being strengthened physically mentally and most importantly spiritually. Mens ministries offer a great opportunity to be both be a mentor and to mentor to other men. A martial program can provide a useful beneficial means to spiritually strengthen a church and its worship in my opinion. 

There are some issues that I think you will have to address and have straight in you head before you start. There is a certain amount of anti Christian bias in our populations and amongst martial artists this is also true. This should not be much of a problem in your mens ministry but you will face some of this bigotry and ignorance as you research and share your program with others outside of your church. With-in your church may be some that have issues with self-defense and physical violence specifically. There will be some in your church that worry about the religious influences from outside of Christian beliefs and Christian philosophies and teachings that are found in many Asian martial arts. 

With out knowing your church there is really no way of predicting initial interest, but can safely say that there is almost always a need.

Good luck with your teaching 
Congratulations again on achieving your BB
Warmest Regards
Brian King


----------



## jks9199

Tez3 said:


> I train as one of two females in a male class, the other female being my daughter, I teach an all male class. I have been doing MA for donkeys years now with various groups and never has this ever arisen. I have worked in an all male environment many times, my shift partners are male and again never has the subject even been mentioned about females.
> It makes it sound as if you think females are dangerous and no male thats not related to a woman should be in a room with them, it also sounds similiar to something you would find in certain middle eastern countries.
> I'm sorry but there's something very wrong when men and women have to take precautions against 'allegations'.


The US is a rather prudish country, if you haven't picked up on that.  On top of that, over the last several years, people have gotten a lot touchier and more concerned, too.  I worked at a place where supervisors were not permitted to address matters of clothing with members of the opposite sex; as a male supervisor, if I had a female subordinate show up wearing an outfit that would be more appropriate on a performer at a strip club than in an office -- I had to call for a female supervisor, even if it would take several hours for one to arrive from another work site!


----------



## Carol

There's prudish, then there is realistic.

No man allowed inside the house until hubby gets home implies that the woman either doesn't work outside the home or works on more limited hours than hubby does. 

So hubby is either the primary, or the sole breadwinner for the family AND he either jockeys around his work hours or burns a vacation day when HVAC guys have to do their preventive maintenance, or the cable guy wires up the downstairs room, or the landlord changes the battery in the smoke detector?  

I have a hard time buying that. Typically, when folks have a partner that stays at home full-time or part-time they hope the partner can manage routine home stuff while they focus on their job. 

KungFu Penguin's description of his "friend" reads more like a man bragging about how much control they have over the woman in their life.


----------



## thardey

Yeah, it's pretty bad here, as far as sexual "allegations" go.

From an MA perspective, it's not so bad as it sounds in this thread. But from the religious perspective, even the hint of an "allegation" can force a pastor to resign from his church, sometimes without being able to continue working in the ministry for the rest of his life, since that "allegation" alone can dog his reputation.

It's an easy target for women who may want to hurt somone, and there is very little defense, other than to keep your alibis open, and avoid being alone with women.

Especially since pastors are supposed to be trusted, caring, and supportive, its part of the job to be a counselor. A man spending a lot of time behind closed doors with a woman who's been hurt, who is sharing very personal feelings and details about her life. It's a formula for a personal bond that may be inappropriate for a spiritual leader in that position. 

Plus, whether for men or women, there's always ones who are petty, selfish, and out to cause trouble. All it takes is one who wants to damage the church or the pastor for some reason to claim that the pastor was innapropriate, and that's the end of it!

It's just easier to avoid that situation, and CYA.

Women can councel women, and Men councel men. Couples have a third party witness, so no big deal.

As for the Men's Martial Arts, I think its probably a great idea the way you describe. If the purpose is bonding and outlet for healthy activities, then go for it!

If the purpose is for teaching self-defense, then I would say do that without making an issue of gender one way or the other. A kick is a kick is a kick, after all.


----------



## Tez3

A men only class wouldn't be acceptable here however. A class has to be available to everyone, it can't be restricted to white male straight men of one religion. To be honest I don't know why men would want a male only class other than to make it a ganglike club. Boys only places tend to be quite anti female I've found.


----------



## girlbug2

Yes we are a very prudish country by world standards, and very litigious. I do hope we don't export that over to you. That being said, it's the reality we have to live with over here.

In my former Kenpo days I trained with the sensei in a strip mall studio that had a glass window front from ceiling to floor. I was able to take private lessons with him alone because the whole time we were in full public view. He once confided to me a few of the scarier situations that gave him pause to think about being alone with students in a prior location which was not so public. He made it a policy never to teach children private lessons without one of the parents present. On one occasion he asked me to assist him teaching a private lesson to a young lady who was not underage, but he was getting a vibe that she liked him a little more than as a student to teacher and he wanted to avoid all appearance of wrongdoing (he is married).

In my current Krav Maga training I have had "private" lessons with the male instructor, but actually I was sharing with another woman and we split the cost. I have not asked about his policy on this issue, but when it comes up someday, I will be interested how he explains it. He is also married.

So you see this isn't so much a sexist "control the woman" thing, as it does affect male instructors and what they should and shouldn't do with regards to their students. Men are just as accountable to their wives as wives are to their husbands.


----------



## ynnad

Tez3 said:


> A men only class wouldn't be acceptable here however. A class has to be available to everyone, it can't be restricted to white male straight men of one religion. To be honest I don't know why men would want a male only class other than to make it a ganglike club. Boys only places tend to be quite anti female I've found.



I think you are really misunderstanding the context. 

First, I am not trying to merely start a martial arts class. I'm trying to utilize martial arts as a way of drawing some guys together to build relationships among a demographic that doesn't get a lot of this. Second, I think it is very appropriate to have a men's only martial arts class. There are women only self defense and exercise programs. If there weren't many women wouldn't participate. It has nothing to do with trying to form a cult-like context, but everything to do with being comfortable and not wanting to be embarrassed and make yourself vulnerable to a bunch of men. The same is true for men, many will be out of shape and a little awkward. if they know there are going to be women there, they won't participate.    

Second, the class would be open to any male who would like to participate in the group's purposes. I'm not sure why you want to inflame the conversation with your "white male straight men of one religion" comment, but it has no basis and reveals more about your sensitivities than it does what my original post is about. 

Third, I question your statement that boy only places tend to be anti female. I assume you are a woman so I'm not sure how much experience you have with boy only contexts.

Anyway, thanks for keeping the posting lively.


----------



## ynnad

Brian said:


> *ynnad wrote*
> 
> &#12288;
> Congratulations on your BB Pastor.
> I think that a martial program tied into your churchs aftercare programs will be a great thing for the children and families while allowing you to grow both as a pastor and as a martial artist.



Thanks. Any way I can connect the areas of my life that matter most is a good thing. My four kids also participate withe me. We did a little demonstration for the kid's Sunday school class this week. We take a virtue approach to education and this month is discipline. She asked us to come in and talk a little about martial arts as it relates to discipline. It was a lot of fun.



> There are few places that men can go to grow. Few places that men can go to honestly explore pride/ego, fears and their weaknesses while being strengthened physically mentally and most importantly spiritually. Mens ministries offer a great opportunity to be both be a mentor and to mentor to other men. A martial program can provide a useful beneficial means to spiritually strengthen a church and its worship in my opinion.



I agree. I think most Christian men think they are to reject any notion of masculinity as unChristian. I think they secretly watch UFC at home.  



> There are some issues that I think you will have to address and have straight in you head before you start. There is a certain amount of anti Christian bias in our populations and amongst martial artists this is also true. This should not be much of a problem in your mens ministry but you will face some of this bigotry and ignorance as you research and share your program with others outside of your church. With-in your church may be some that have issues with self-defense and physical violence specifically. There will be some in your church that worry about the religious influences from outside of Christian beliefs and Christian philosophies and teachings that are found in many Asian martial arts.


 
Yes, I've thought through these matters personally and think I have some decent feedback to give in these matters.



> Good luck with your teaching
> Congratulations again on achieving your BB
> Warmest Regards
> Brian King



Thank you for your encouragement. 

Danny


----------



## ynnad

thardey said:


> As for the Men's Martial Arts, I think its probably a great idea the way you describe. If the purpose is bonding and outlet for healthy activities, then go for it!
> 
> If the purpose is for teaching self-defense, then I would say do that without making an issue of gender one way or the other. A kick is a kick is a kick, after all.



This is really the context. The purpose of the class is the former. If I were to offer a self defense class as a community service held in our church, it would certainly be open to anyone.

Thanks for your comments.


----------



## Tez3

When I say it's not acceptable here I mean it's against the Sex Discrimination Act to have something, class or not for one sex only unless you can demonstrate for medical or legal reason such as being in a prison etc. Here if you don't allow women in you could be taken to court.

I think you may not have read my posts very carefully.


----------



## Carol

The law in the U.S. is complicated.  In most states (if not all), it is legal for a person to open a private fitness business for one gender only.  

Where it gets complicated is when something like this is taking place as part of a ministry, and separate activities are being offered to the separate-and-not-equal activities are being offered to the different genders.

The woman have an exercise class as part of their ministry, the men have Tae Kwon Do where they can start training for their black belt.  It is easy to see the potential inequity.  

As far as what kind of legal risk that presents, that's really a better question for an attorney specializing in non-profit issues.  Certain types of discrimination can result in a church losing its tax-exempt status.


----------



## Carol

edit - please delete


----------



## ynnad

Carol said:


> The law in the U.S. is complicated.  In most states (if not all), it is legal for a person to open a private fitness business for one gender only.
> 
> Where it gets complicated is when something like this is taking place as part of a ministry, and separate activities are being offered to the separate-and-not-equal activities are being offered to the different genders.
> 
> The woman have an exercise class as part of their ministry, the men have Tae Kwon Do where they can start training for their black belt.  It is easy to see the potential inequity.
> 
> As far as what kind of legal risk that presents, that's really a better question for an attorney specializing in non-profit issues.  Certain types of discrimination can result in a church losing its tax-exempt status.



Actually, it being an activity as part of a church ministry is what makes it less complicated. Being in ministry and following case law for religious non-prophets for a while now, I can tell you the legal system is very friendly to churches. The system doesn't get involved, and when they do, they tend to lose. And the fact that no money is changing hands makes this all a moot point. As far as inequity because one is an exercise program and one is a martial art is laughable. Heck, someone could start an all red-headed first-born male church if they wanted to.


----------



## Tez3

ynnad said:


> Actually, it being an activity as part of a church ministry is what makes it less complicated. Being in ministry and following case law for religious *non-prophets* for a while now, I can tell you the legal system is very friendly to churches. The system doesn't get involved, and when they do, they tend to lose. And the fact that no money is changing hands makes this all a moot point. As far as inequity because one is an exercise program and one is a martial art is laughable. Heck, someone could start an all red-headed first-born male church if they wanted to.


 

I'm sorry, I know its a church etc but 'non -prophets'?

There's no exemptions for churches in law here and there's no tax benefits either. No church is above the law, the Catholic church is having trouble as it is with it's men only priests rule, probably a case in point when you have anything that is men only. The Church of England and the Church of Scotland has women vicars. We don't tend to have churches that 'minister' in the same way as American churches seem to, it's not a British thing really. You certainly couldn't start a red headed first born male church here, it would be against the law and frankly we aren't hugely interested in happy clappy churches, English people prefer their religion quiet lol.


----------



## ynnad

Tez3 said:


> I'm sorry, I know its a church etc but 'non -prophets'?
> 
> There's no exemptions for churches in law here and there's no tax benefits either. No church is above the law, the Catholic church is having trouble as it is with it's men only priests rule, probably a case in point when you have anything that is men only. The Church of England and the Church of Scotland has women vicars. We don't tend to have churches that 'minister' in the same way as American churches seem to, it's not a British thing really. You certainly couldn't start a red headed first born male church here, it would be against the law and frankly we aren't hugely interested in happy clappy churches, English people prefer their religion quiet lol.



Actually, churches are classified as charities and do not pay taxes in the UK. And actually, yes, in the UK you can start whatever private club you want. But, actually, I'm not sure why you are taking the thread down this road. Please refer back to my original post. Thanks.


----------



## Carol

ynnad said:


> Actually, it being an activity as part of a church ministry is what makes it less complicated. Being in ministry and following case law for religious non-prophets for a while now, I can tell you the legal system is very friendly to churches. The system doesn't get involved, and when they do, they tend to lose. And the fact that no money is changing hands makes this all a moot point. As far as inequity because one is an exercise program and one is a martial art is laughable. Heck, someone could start an all red-headed first-born male church if they wanted to.



You know more than I do in that area   I recall that there are a lot of liberties issued to churches...my concern was more about civil proceedings (a complaint from the inside).  

Sounds laughable (and probably is), but having seen one house of worship get torn apart with lawsuits in the recent past over what seemed to me like minor stuff...I'd hate to see anyone else's spiritual home go through the same thing.  

I hope you can keep us posted with how the project is going.


----------



## Tez3

ynnad said:


> Actually, churches are classified as charities and do not pay taxes in the UK. And actually, yes, in the UK you can start whatever private club you want. But, actually, I'm not sure why you are taking the thread down this road. Please refer back to my original post. Thanks.


 
It depends on the Charity Commisioners whether its a charity, being a church has nothing to do with it and no you can't start any club you want.

I'm not taking this thread anywhere, I was answering kungfu pengiun's post actually. The remarks weren't directed at you until you directed a rather sour post at me.


----------



## thardey

If I'm understanding the premise, we're not talking a club, a school, or membership, or dues, or anything of that nature.

It's very common for churches here to have women's fellowship groups, and men's fellowship groups, within the church.

Often we see "Men's prayer breakfasts" -- it's not that women aren't allowed, but that the focus is on men's issues. Same with "Women's Potluck" -- it's not that men would get kicked out, but it would be very akward.

For instance, a few years ago there was a movement called "Promise Keepers" that was focused on building integrity in the lives of men. It got a lot of bad press because people thought that women "weren't allowed." That was far from true, I saw several women at the event I checked out. It was just that the subject of the speaking was about things like porn, expectations of men in church, and in society, dealing with anger, the job description of being a father, etc, all from the male veiwpoint. There just wasn't a lot of incentive for women to come.

I've found that people gather into groups a lot easier if they gather around a common activity, and "the Bible" alone isn't enough. In our church, the women's groups have had the best attendance at cookie exchanges, lunch meetings, and hiking, and the men tend to show up for the paintball and airsoft games.

If I did something similar (which I've considered, when we get a little bigger) I would have a men's-focused Bible study, which uses martial arts as a draw.

I doubt that this type of activity would include things like testing, ranking, and a progression to Black Belt. If it did, then the focus changes to being a MA school, and then it should be open to all. But, like Ynnad said, that's not the focus. In my system, a 1st degree Black Belt isn't enough to open your own school anyway, but you can teach classes.


----------



## ynnad

thardey said:


> I doubt that this type of activity would include things like testing, ranking, and a progression to Black Belt. If it did, then the focus changes to being a MA school, and then it should be open to all. But, like Ynnad said, that's not the focus. In my system, a 1st degree Black Belt isn't enough to open your own school anyway, but you can teach classes.



This is correct. Actually, most of what we'll be doing in regards to self-defense, I'm actually getting other places than my traditional taekwondo training. It would be great if this generated some interest in the school where I attend, but that would just be serendipitous and not the purpose of the group.


----------



## Carol

ynnad said:


> This is correct. Actually, most of what we'll be doing in regards to self-defense, I'm actually getting other places than my traditional taekwondo training. It would be great if this generated some interest in the school where I attend, but that would just be serendipitous and not the purpose of the group.



Thanks, that is much clearer.  Makes more sense. :asian:


----------



## ynnad

Well, tonight is our first night. I can't believe how many have expressed interest. I have everyone from teenagers to some elders coming. I'll update you tomorrow on how it goes.

As a side note, if you were doing something like this, what might you spend the hour doing? I know some are interested in the traditional martial art, some want to learn some basic self defense, and others just want to try and get in shape. What do you think would be a good balance for a class?


----------



## ynnad

In light of the gender conversation we have had in this post, it is interesting to note that several ladies have asked about joining us, mainly those who are doing the ladies exercise class. We'll see where that goes. If there is enough interest I may actually start some kind of club.


----------



## Carol

ynnad said:


> In light of the gender conversation we have had in this post, it is interesting to note that several ladies have asked about joining us, mainly those who are doing the ladies exercise class. We'll see where that goes. If there is enough interest I may actually start some kind of club.



So what is happening to the ladies?  Are they being allowed to join the class?


----------



## Brian King

*Ynnad wrote* 


> &#8220;As a side note, if you were doing something like this, what might you spend the hour doing? I know some are interested in the traditional martial art, some want to learn some basic self defense, and others just want to try and get in shape. What do you think would be a good balance for a class? &#8220;


 
I assume that you will be starting off with a group prayer since this is a ministry, I also assume that you will be praying before during and after class on your own. I would highly suggest that before you begin class right after the group prayer that you have everyone say what they are hoping to get out of the class. Have a brief discussion with them. Get them in their minds to have a goal for the class and articulate where they want to be at the end of class. You will find out much useful information if you both listen and observe these folks. Have in your mind a road map on how the different goals can be achieved. It is easiest and luckily most productive if you can have multiple travelers (different destinations/goals) on the same road. For instance warming up can be the same for all whether self defense minded, fitness minded or fellowship minded. Have some of the warm-ups be team or partner exercises, have some of it be group exercises. Keep it simple challenging and fun. This brief discussion period and the warm up period will let you observe your group and see what they what they want as well as see what the need LOL not always the same thing in my opinion. Falling and rolling can be a part of the warm up. Many have a fear of falling and this is a chance to both discover fear and learn how to address the fears that we face in our lives. It is a skill that can be useful even if never &#8216;mugged&#8217;. It will also start to build the mindset of success. Watch the students breathing while falling (before during and after) and start them working on at least breathing and not holding their breaths. Breath and spirit are interesting words&#8230;look up the definitions and then see how they are used in scripture. If you are going to teach Kata&#8217;s demonstrate them, if you have a helper or somebody else that has experience show an application or two from the beginning of the Kata then have them start the Kata. No one to help then pick the biggest baddest of the lot and work them. No matter the work you show point out the benefits to all no matter their goals. Start them learning on how to find the benefits on their own. 

You did not say how long your class was going to be. No matter how long the time that you have the students, the absolute hardest thing in planning a session or seminar is deciding what not to teach. There is so much and you will be excited and full of information that you want to give them. Calm yourself and slow down. They will have to discover some on their own, it is part of the learning process and a very valuable part. Giving someone too much information at the start is a sure way to insure that they learn nothing. 

At the end of class I might suggest have them circle up (sitting might be best) and go around one by one and discuss class. They can and should be encouraged to be free in their discussion while being brief LOL. Something that they liked, something that they learned, which drill they most enjoyed or least enjoyed, a chance to thank their training partners whatever they wish. Some may just say thank you and that is OK. You can either address them after each talks or wait until the end as your style and the time dictate. This talking does a few things. It allows them to calm themselves, it allows them to one more time visualize the days training reinforcing the lessons, it allows them to see the exercises through others eyes and experiences. You will be pleasantly surprised at some of the articulations and the deepness of understanding some of the students will share. This is a tradition in the martial art I practice and one that proves valuable time and time again. This of course then is a great chance to end with prayer of praise and thanks.

Good luck sir
Most of all have fun
Regards
Brian King


----------



## Tez3

Brian, had to smile when you said about breathing, people look at you strangely when you first tell them to keep breathing - as if you could ever forget to breath! They also find it odd that they've stopped breathing and didn't realise until they practically pass out!


----------



## ynnad

The class has been a great success so far. We had 11 the first week and 15 the second week. These are all men who would never have signed up for an exercise class, much less a martial arts class. I have a very diverse group from teens to seniors, those in some shape to the completely out of shape. All are beginners when it comes to martial arts. I am trying to balance the cardio/flexibility/strength, the traditional martial arts curriculum and the practical self-defense. I'm finding I am running out of time. I need to try and blend these a little more. Our big challenge right now is mats. Anyone have a good suggestion about inexpensive, portable flooring? We aren't going to do any throws, but it is nice to have something "cushiony" when we are stretching and doing pushups, etc and we do fall every once in a while doing target drills, etc.


----------



## David43515

Well, I think most Home Centers and Do-It-Yourself hardware stores have foam floor pads that link together like puzzle peices. Or maybe they just have them here in Japan. Anyway, most of them are about 18 inches square and could be put together quickly to give you a small padded area for your target drills and then taken apart quickly for storage in a closet (unless you find you want to leave them out for the nursery)

Work transferrs me often, so I get to attend churches in alot of communities. I went to a church here in Kushiro years ago that had Kyokusin-kai karate for a youngmen`s group activity , probably age 13-20. Another church had a Kyokushin-kai class that was open to all and had alot of interest among young girls. I wish you luck.

I`ve tried to start a similar program for women`s self defense at our current church, but there seemed to be no interest.


----------



## Tez3

Perhaps yoga mats? this is UK site but you could find similiar.
http://www.yogadirect.co.uk/?gclid=CLrZrIqd1Z8CFcIB4wodqmGLcA

We have those jigsaw mats here but they are very expensive. Good if you can afford them though.


----------

