# A Disturbing Attack



## MJS (Dec 30, 2009)

Caught the tail end of this on the news today, but I found this link to the story.



> CLEARWATER, Fla. - An 11-year-old Florida girl and her 15-year-old boyfriend are accused of plotting to kill the girl's mother by setting her bedroom on fire while the woman slept Tuesday, police said.
> Samantha Broadhead and Jack Ault have been charged with attempted murder and arson after the fire in Clearwater, about 20 miles west of Tampa on Florida's Gulf Coast.


 
What really made my mouth drop was when I saw this part:

"Police spokeswoman Elizabeth Watts said a motive was "probably just typical teenage angst."

Typical teenage angst???  Umm...sorry, but I call BS on that.  Attempted murder IMO, is not typical teen angst.  Well, unless you're some sort of teen nutjob, in which case, if you've done things like this before, then IMO, you should be locked up somewhere, not walking around on the streets.  Hey, I think its safe to say that as kids, we've all had our share of spats with our parents, but I never once tried to kill them.


----------



## Stac3y (Dec 30, 2009)

The whole thing sounds ****ed up to me. Think about it: this is an *11 year old* girl who not only has a *boyfriend, *but a boyfriend who is *15 years old*. Even if they hadn't tried to torch her mom, that's a serious mess--much worse than "teen angst." And if the mom was allowing that relationship? Niiiiiiiice. If I found out a 15 year old girl had designs on my 11 year old son--well, let's just say I would never allow that relationship to progress. <biting tongue>


----------



## Omar B (Dec 30, 2009)

I gotta wonder about the parenting there.  An 11 year old girl should never have a boyfriend.


----------



## bluekey88 (Dec 30, 2009)

My daughter just utrned 10....I cannot for the life of me imagine her dating within a year....honestly, I'm good if she waits another 20 years or so.

That being said, she's already garnering some mild attention from boys (who don't realize the monumental effort I put into not placing them in an early grave).  

It's a seriously f'ed up world.  Based on that snippet of story, there were some serious parenting/family dynamics issues there.

Peace,
Erik


----------



## Flea (Dec 30, 2009)

> Ault has been taken to a juvenile facility, and Samantha Broadhead is undergoing a mental evaluation.



To say the very least.  <shudder>

I wonder if they'll charge the girl as an adult; I sincerely hope not.  No doubt the boy will (and should) face charges, but what level of responsibility can an 11yo take for attempted murder?  I mean in terms of understanding the full magnitude of her actions.  Whether she's charged or not, I really hope she gets help.  _Lots_ and _lots_ of help.


----------



## Ken Morgan (Dec 30, 2009)

bluekey88 said:


> My daughter just utrned 10....I cannot for the life of me imagine her dating within a year....honestly, I'm good if she waits another 20 years or so.
> 
> That being said, she's already garnering some mild attention from boys (who don't realize the monumental effort I put into not placing them in an early grave).
> 
> ...


 
I told my daughter, who is now 16, that she wasn't allowed to date till she is 35 or 40....and that I will be cleaning my shotgun, my swords and my kukhri everytime a boy enters the house. (Only halfway kidding...)

Everyone has a good take on this, there are some serious parental issues going on here, or a lack there of.


----------



## Jdokan (Dec 30, 2009)

bluekey88 said:


> My daughter just utrned 10....I cannot for the life of me imagine her dating within a year....honestly, I'm good if she waits another 20 years or so.
> 
> That being said, she's already garnering some mild attention from boys (who don't realize the monumental effort I put into not placing them in an early grave).
> 
> ...



I humorously ( in my mind ) entered a blog about this (boys coming around ) but it didn't get the response I thought....Guess you'd have to know me...search (if it is still listed) you'll appreciate it...having a daughter.....


----------



## RandomPhantom700 (Dec 30, 2009)

MJS said:


> Typical teenage angst??? Umm...sorry, but I call BS on that. Attempted murder IMO, is not typical teen angst. Well, unless you're some sort of teen nutjob, in which case, if you've done things like this before, then IMO, you should be locked up somewhere, not walking around on the streets. Hey, I think its safe to say that as kids, we've all had our share of spats with our parents, but I never once tried to kill them.


 
To be fair, motive is just that, motive.  This girl may have been driven by the typical narcissistic melodrama we've complacently accepted as teen angst.  Some people are willing to commit similar acts of violence over far paltrier of reasons.  The frigtening thing is the extreme measure to which she was willing to go, and at the age she was.

I've yet to read the article, but my initial guess is that the 16-year-old boyfriend was the real source of this action, and the girl, being an impressionable pre-teen, went along.  Still quite disturbing though.


----------



## celtic_crippler (Dec 30, 2009)

Flea said:


> To say the very least. <shudder>
> 
> I wonder if they'll charge the girl as an adult; I sincerely hope not. No doubt the boy will (and should) face charges, but what level of responsibility can an 11yo take for attempted murder? I mean in terms of understanding the full magnitude of her actions. Whether she's charged or not, I really hope she gets help. _Lots_ and _lots_ of help.


 
I don't know about that... I think an 11 year old knows right from wrong. She definately has to know that murder is very wrong, unless she's mentally handicapped. 

...sigh... as irritated as this makes me, I must admit the parent shares some responsibility. My initial knee-jerk reaction is to rid the planet of people like this...permanantly. :shrug:

I'm sick and tired of being reminded just how unethical, barbarous, selfish, and sick the human race is on practically a daily basis. We like to think we're so great; advanced and superior. Yeah...right. The only thing separating us from our cave-men ancestors is technology...at the core we're no more refined or evolved as a race... we've just traded in our clubs for nukes. 

:soapbox:

Finding babies in dumpsters and toilets is common place any more. Children are setting their parents on fire while lonely Ilsamic extremist set themselves on fire because they're thankfully too stupid to set off a bomb properly. There's enough of this crap to support dozens of talk shows and editorial pieces every day... It's no wonder people (children included) as a whole are becoming *desensitized* to all the murdering, raping, and pillaging; the media is inundated with the crap. Lord knows, there's plenty of it to report on...

...and again..:deadhorse... tell me why parents shouldn't have to prove they're fit before being allowed to reproduce?!?! Say whatever you like, but you can't deny all the negative repercussions associated with unfit parenting and all that entails. You could write a book on the negative impact it has on society as a whole. 

I can't, for the life of me, understand how we've managed to not destroy ourselves already. It's definately not for a lack of trying. :idunno:

....okay...tirade over... :disgust:


----------



## Jenny_in_Chico (Dec 30, 2009)

I am thinking back to when I was 11-12 years old. I lived with my mom, who was a single mother. She struggled to make ends meet, so I didn't have a lot of stuff and I didn't have the extracurricular activities some middle class kids do. I listened to heavy metal, would start small harmless fires on the way to school, experimented with drugs, and had started to fool around with boys (one of whom was 18). I was often angry with my mom when she tried to disipline me, and by then I was too strong for her to physically assert her will. But I never hit her, and never considered trying to punish her in any way for making my life less than perfect. I just considered running away, and me being me, I actually saved up $200 of my lunch money toward that goal before I changed my mind. 

However, the "running away plan" involved me going to New York, and living on the streets. THAT WAS MY PLAN. I was an intelligent girl, but vastly underestimated the full repurcussions of what a single pivotal decision could be. So this little girl's behavior isn't completely inexplicable to me, especially if there are any issues of emotional or physical abuse going on.


----------



## celtic_crippler (Dec 30, 2009)

Jenny_in_Chico said:


> I am thinking back to when I was 11-12 years old. I lived with my mom, who was a single mother. She struggled to make ends meet, so I didn't have a lot of stuff and I didn't have the extracurricular activities some middle class kids do. I listened to heavy metal, would start small harmless fires on the way to school, experimented with drugs, and had started to fool around with boys (one of whom was 18). I was often angry with my mom when she tried to disipline me, and by then I was too strong for her to physically assert her will. But I never hit her, and never considered trying to punish her in any way for making my life less than perfect. I just considered running away, and me being me, I actually saved up $200 of my lunch money toward that goal before I changed my mind.
> 
> However, the "running away plan" involved me going to New York, and living on the streets. THAT WAS MY PLAN. I was an intelligent girl, but vastly underestimated the full repurcussions of what a single pivotal decision could be. So this little girl's behavior isn't completely inexplicable to me, especially if there are any issues of emotional or physical abuse going on.


 
I was definately no little angel, but I never intentionally tried to murder anyone either.  

Every child challenges their boundries, the parent has to enforce them. There were several years where it was just me, my sis, and my mom. She worked two jobs to support us but she did a decent enough job that even when she wasn't around there were simply some things I was too scared to try out of fear of the consequences. 

Even so, I screwed up more than once... and got my tail tore up for it. I made the mistake of using the "F" word in an argument with her when I was 16 and to this day nobody has ever hit me as hard as she did. She's a South-Paw and rung my bell, son! To put it into perspective, she's an RN who was the captain of the hospital bowling team and the pitcher for the nurses soft ball team... LOL 

Of course, these days if it ever came out that a parent did something like that child services would be all over them... guess that's probably part of the problem. 

Looking back, I'm grateful for the butt-whuppin's I got. I deserved them and they help teach me valuable lessons. Though I didn't always understand them at the time... I do now. Without that added "guidance" there's no telling how I would have turned out.


----------



## Jenny_in_Chico (Dec 30, 2009)

celtic_crippler said:


> Looking back, I'm grateful for the butt-whuppin's I got. I deserved them and they help teach me valuable lessons. Though I didn't always understand them at the time... I do now. Without that added "guidance" there's no telling how I would have turned out.


 
I received no butt whuppins. My dad was beaten as a child by his father, a very hard fisted man. He absolutely refused to physically disipline me or my sister. When he left, my mom continued that tradition, trying to use logic and reasoning as a parenting tool. She would punish me by sending me to my room, but as I was a child of a solitary nature I was quite happy being alone in my room with a book. Then I got too big for my britches, and she wasn't able to control me using any means. So from the age of 13 on I was basically living under my own guidance. Which was not a good thing. I think that it is a grave mistake to remove the threat of physical punishment from your repertoire as a parent, especially single mothers. Eventually the child gets too big to spank, but you instil an understanding of the parent-child dominance hierarchy through early and judicious use of the flat of the hand. Even as a 4 year old, it was clear to everyone in the world that I didn't accept anyone's authority except my own.


----------



## Bruno@MT (Dec 30, 2009)

Omar B said:


> I gotta wonder about the parenting there.  An 11 year old girl should never have a boyfriend.



I don't know how things are in the US, but over here it is not abnormal imo for kids of that age to have innocent boyfriend-girlfriend relationships that consist of holding hands and stealing a kiss.


----------



## celtic_crippler (Dec 30, 2009)

Jenny_in_Chico said:


> I received no butt whuppins. My dad was beaten as a child by his father, a very hard fisted man. He absolutely refused to physically disipline me or my sister. When he left, my mom continued that tradition, trying to use logic and reasoning as a parenting tool. She would punish me by sending me to my room, but as I was a child of a solitary nature I was quite happy being alone in my room with a book. Then I got too big for my britches, and she wasn't able to control me using any means. So from the age of 13 on I was basically living under my own guidance. Which was not a good thing. I think that it is a grave mistake to remove the threat of physical punishment from your repertoire as a parent, especially single mothers. Eventually the child gets too big to spank, but you instil an understanding of the parent-child dominance hierarchy through early and judicious use of the flat of the hand. Even as a 4 year old, it was clear to everyone in the world that I didn't accept anyone's authority except my own.


 
Understandable. 

My mom never used wire hangers or anything like that... she gave me whuppin's for serious offenses, and used other methods like restriction as well. I was lucky I guess... especially since I didn't loose any teeth to that left hook I mentioned above. LOL She was fond of reminding me that I would never be too big for her to whup. LOL


----------



## MJS (Dec 30, 2009)

Stac3y said:


> The whole thing sounds f*ed up to me. Think about it: this is an *11 year old* girl who not only has a *boyfriend, *but a boyfriend who is *15 years old*. Even if they hadn't tried to torch her mom, that's a serious mess--much worse than "teen angst." And if the mom was allowing that relationship? Niiiiiiiice. If I found out a 15 year old girl had designs on my 11 year old son--well, let's just say I would never allow that relationship to progress. <biting tongue>


 
I dont have kids, but in todays world, none of this should be surprising.  Not taking a shot at you or anything, just saying that compared to other things that go on, this is relationship is probably on the mild end of things.  

Then again, some people could look at this and say that 4yrs isnt that big of a deal.


----------



## MJS (Dec 30, 2009)

Flea said:


> To say the very least. <shudder>
> 
> I wonder if they'll charge the girl as an adult; I sincerely hope not. No doubt the boy will (and should) face charges, but what level of responsibility can an 11yo take for attempted murder? I mean in terms of understanding the full magnitude of her actions. Whether she's charged or not, I really hope she gets help. _Lots_ and _lots_ of help.


 
Hopefully something gets done, before something like this happens again.  Charged as an adult, charged as a minor....either way, IMHO, this girl needs to be locked up somewhere.  Regarding the help...well, I'm a firm believer that help is a 2-way street.  If this girl doesnt want help, then trying to force it on her, will be pointless.


----------



## MJS (Dec 30, 2009)

RandomPhantom700 said:


> To be fair, motive is just that, motive. This girl may have been driven by the typical narcissistic melodrama we've complacently accepted as teen angst. Some people are willing to commit similar acts of violence over far paltrier of reasons. The frigtening thing is the extreme measure to which she was willing to go, and at the age she was.


 
Agreed.  Of course, you have to wonder....what was the home life like for the people involved here?  Seems to me, just going on what we see in the link, that this wasnt the first time that there was fighting.  I wonder if the girl ever resorted to such extremes in the past, but it just didn't get to the point that this did.  



> I've yet to read the article, but my initial guess is that the 16-year-old boyfriend was the real source of this action, and the girl, being an impressionable pre-teen, went along. Still quite disturbing though.


 
Hopefully that'll come out during further investigation.


----------



## MJS (Dec 30, 2009)

Jenny_in_Chico said:


> I am thinking back to when I was 11-12 years old. I lived with my mom, who was a single mother. She struggled to make ends meet, so I didn't have a lot of stuff and I didn't have the extracurricular activities some middle class kids do. I listened to heavy metal, would start small harmless fires on the way to school, experimented with drugs, and had started to fool around with boys (one of whom was 18). I was often angry with my mom when she tried to disipline me, and by then I was too strong for her to physically assert her will. But I never hit her, and never considered trying to punish her in any way for making my life less than perfect. I just considered running away, and me being me, I actually saved up $200 of my lunch money toward that goal before I changed my mind.
> 
> However, the "running away plan" involved me going to New York, and living on the streets. THAT WAS MY PLAN. I was an intelligent girl, but vastly underestimated the full repurcussions of what a single pivotal decision could be. So this little girl's behavior isn't completely inexplicable to me, especially if there are any issues of emotional or physical abuse going on.


 
See, I dont always buy the single parent situation.  My Mother divorced my father when I was little.  Guy was an ***, and in the end, it was certainly a wise move on her part.  However, she still raised me with good, solid values.  When she met my step father, who to this day, I refer to him, and introduce him to people as my father, he too, continued to instill good values in me.  

As I said, I think its safe to say that we all had our moments as kids, but this....this is something that is beyond words.  Of course, I saw nothing, unless i missed it, about this being a single parent setting.

I have to agree with CC though....my Mother didn't let me get by with any ****.  Did I get hit?  Yes.  Of course, there is a difference between getting your *** slapped, and being beaten.  Of course, we all know that in todays world, God forbid you think about hitting your kid, watch the hell out, you'll have the cops knocking on your door, but thats another thread.

Of course, 9 times out of 10, it didn't get to the hitting.  It stopped with the look....you know, that look that says, if you dont cut the ****, you're gonna get it.   Needless to say, that usually worked.


----------



## MJS (Dec 30, 2009)

Bruno@MT said:


> I don't know how things are in the US, but over here it is not abnormal imo for kids of that age to have innocent boyfriend-girlfriend relationships that consist of holding hands and stealing a kiss.


 
Agreed.  Now, if the guy was 18, 21, etc, then yes, anyone that age, who finds it necessary to hang with someone who's that young, has some issues.


----------



## Ken Morgan (Dec 30, 2009)

celtic_crippler said:


> ...sigh... as irritated as this makes me, I must admit the parent shares some responsibility. My initial knee-jerk reaction is to rid the planet of people like this...permanantly. :shrug:
> 
> 
> Finding babies in dumpsters and toilets is common place any more. Children are setting their parents on fire while lonely Ilsamic extremist set themselves on fire because they're thankfully too stupid to set off a bomb properly. There's enough of this crap to support dozens of talk shows and editorial pieces every day... It's no wonder people (children included) as a whole are becoming *desensitized* to all the murdering, raping, and pillaging; the media is inundated with the crap. Lord knows, there's plenty of it to report on...
> ...


 
It&#8217;s strange how we have no problem letting our kids see violence in video games and movies but show someone a nipple and the world implodes&#8230; 

I&#8217;ve worked with many people who totally amaze me on what they let their young kids do, and when they get into trouble with the law they shrug their shoulders and say, &#8220;what are you going to do?&#8221; How about you become a F***** parent and set boundaries for your kids?

I know parents have shop lifted with their kids with them, I know parents who use drugs with their teenagers, I know parents who put zero value on education, and see nothing wrong with kids finishing school at 14 or 15 and working at a McDonalds, I have a friend where the house across the road is made up of three generations of females who all got pregnant at 15, went on welfare and became brood mares, popping out kids by multiple guys. Not one of them went past grade 10 and they have never worked. What chance do these kids have at making a good life for themselves?

To all these people, it&#8217;s all normal. If you&#8217;re in the middle class, and above, it&#8217;s aberrant behaviour. They see no value in education, they think we keep our kids sheltered from the real world, they think that it&#8217;s a dog eat dog world and their going to take their share.

Do we have a right to tell them how to raise their kids?


----------



## Stac3y (Dec 31, 2009)

MJS said:


> I dont have kids, but in todays world, none of this should be surprising. Not taking a shot at you or anything, just saying that compared to other things that go on, this is relationship is probably on the mild end of things.
> 
> Then again, some people could look at this and say that 4yrs isnt that big of a deal.


 
Surprising, no; appalling, yes. And I'm not taking a shot at you, either, but GOOD parents don't allow 11 year olds to date. And the 4 years between 11 and 15 are definitely a big deal. Look at it this way: an 11 year old is in elementary school. A 15 year old is a sophomore in high school. It's NOT the same as a 24 year old dating a 28 year old.


----------



## Stac3y (Dec 31, 2009)

Ken Morgan said:


> Its strange how we have no problem letting our kids see violence in video games and movies but show someone a nipple and the world implodes




I don't get that at all, myself. I have no problem with my kids seeing nudity. I have a problem with them seeing films that imply that there's uncommitted or "cheap" sex and that that's okay. I have a problem with them seeing violent films. I restrict what they watch and read, and discuss "iffy" parts of it with them, to reinforce the values I want them to learn.




Ken Morgan said:


> Ive worked with many people who totally amaze me on what they let their young kids do, and when they get into trouble with the law they shrug their shoulders and say, what are you going to do? How about you become a F***** parent and set boundaries for your kids?


 
QFT.




Ken Morgan said:


> To all these people, its all normal. If youre in the middle class, and above, its aberrant behaviour. They see no value in education, they think we keep our kids sheltered from the real world, they think that its a dog eat dog world and their going to take their share.





Ken Morgan said:


> Do we have a right to tell them how to raise their kids?


 
Funny thing about this is, that our "sheltered" kids are better suited to succeed in this "dog eat dog" world. We don't have a right to tell them how to raise their kids, but when their child-rearing becomes criminal activity (shoplifting, doing drugs, etc. with their kids), the authorities have a right to step in.


----------



## MJS (Jan 3, 2010)

Stac3y said:


> Surprising, no; appalling, yes. And I'm not taking a shot at you, either, but GOOD parents don't allow 11 year olds to date. And the 4 years between 11 and 15 are definitely a big deal. Look at it this way: an 11 year old is in elementary school. A 15 year old is a sophomore in high school. It's NOT the same as a 24 year old dating a 28 year old.


 
While it may not be PC, in todays world, an 11yo having a bf or gf is probably not frowned upon, afterall it is 2010.  Interestingly enough, I was reading an article in my local paper today.  The article was talking about a family losing their home due to some issue with their mortgage company.  The part that caught my eye, and I thought was fitting for this thread, is the fact that the wife is 30yrs old, the husband is 45yrs old, and they have an 11yo son.  See anything interesting in those numbers?


----------



## grydth (Jan 3, 2010)

The original story happened in Florida, but last year in North Syracuse, NY there was a very similar case. Single mother had grounded 13 year old daughter, then had to go and get her out of a party the kid had snuck off to. When mom went to bed, the kid doused the home with gasoline and set fire to it.

As I recall, though she was charged as an adult she was sentenced to next to nothing and the family came out and defended her as "a good girl".


----------



## MJS (Jan 4, 2010)

grydth said:


> The original story happened in Florida, but last year in North Syracuse, NY there was a very similar case. Single mother had grounded 13 year old daughter, then had to go and get her out of a party the kid had snuck off to. When mom went to bed, the kid doused the home with gasoline and set fire to it.
> 
> As I recall, though she was charged as an adult she was sentenced to next to nothing and the family came out and defended her as "a good girl".


 

Isn't that something, but oh, so typical.  Amazing how someone could have their child do something bad, yet the family turns a blind eye to it.  

When I was little, my mom, would always fight tooth and nail for her kids.  But...she'd always listen to both sides of the story.  If I was in the wrong, she never made any excuses for my actions, and of course, there was always hell to pay.


----------



## teekin (Jan 5, 2010)

MJS said:


> Hopefully something gets done, before something like this happens again. Charged as an adult, charged as a minor....either way, IMHO, this girl needs to be locked up somewhere. *Regarding the help...well, I'm a firm believer that help is a 2-way street. If this girl doesnt want help, then trying to force it on her, will be pointless.[/quote*]
> 
> Not nessesarily. That depends on how far those who are suppose to be helping this girl are willing to go and why they are helping. Sometimes the only thing that is left is confinement and forced help. If the reasons are for the child's own good and the family are willing to do _*What Ever is Nessessary*_ Period. Full Stop. No backing down. Get Better or Die in there she will put in the effort. If the proffesionals she works with are Good, Committed and not just putting in time she will get the help she needs. So, it depends.
> lori


----------



## MA-Caver (Jan 5, 2010)

MJS said:


> What really made my mouth drop was when I saw this part:
> 
> "Police spokeswoman Elizabeth Watts said a motive was "probably just typical teenage angst."


I agree that it's total :BSmeter: at the "teen angst" the girl is ELEVEN and not even old enough to qualify to be a *TEEN*AGER which IMO begins at THIR*TEEN *... she had problems to be sure and a 15 year old bf is one of them. If she was 13 and he 15 then I'd say nothing except that dating should be only at school until she's old enough to go out with him in a couple years or three. 
Still... to want to burn her own mother alive (probably fed by ideas provided by the bf) is a sign of serious trouble at home. 

Hope all parties in this tragedy get help.


----------



## MJS (Jan 5, 2010)

Grendel308 said:


> MJS said:
> 
> 
> > Hopefully something gets done, before something like this happens again. Charged as an adult, charged as a minor....either way, IMHO, this girl needs to be locked up somewhere. *Regarding the help...well, I'm a firm believer that help is a 2-way street. If this girl doesnt want help, then trying to force it on her, will be pointless.[/quote*]
> ...


----------



## teekin (Jan 6, 2010)

Ahhhh MJS we are talking at crossed purposes. I am speaking of a locked down facility. You don't get to go out to bible study down the block, so sorry. You don't get to go out period. No more chances, no more "I will be good, come on, trust me". No NO NO. End all the BS and either the kid commits to getting the help or gets kicked to the curb. MOst want the help but need to be backed into a corner with *no way out* but to accept it.  Then again, cases vary. Sometimes it just doesn't matter what anyone does. Some people seem bent on riding that handcart straight into hell.
lori


----------



## seasoned (Jan 6, 2010)

Stac3y said:


> Surprising, no; appalling, yes. And I'm not taking a shot at you, either, but *GOOD parents don't allow 11 year olds to date.* And the 4 years between 11 and 15 are definitely a big deal. Look at it this way: an 11 year old is in elementary school. A 15 year old is a sophomore in high school. It's NOT the same as a 24 year old dating a 28 year old.


Agreed, 15 is 1 year away from driving, where 11 is just a *year away* from Barbie. This may be the norm in some parts of the country, but maybe this is part and parcel of some of the problems that plague, our day and age. Sorry, I digress.


----------



## Carol (Jan 6, 2010)

Is 4 years a trivial amount of time?

Ask someone that put themselves through college.


----------



## MJS (Jan 6, 2010)

Grendel308 said:


> Ahhhh MJS we are talking at crossed purposes. I am speaking of a locked down facility. You don't get to go out to bible study down the block, so sorry. You don't get to go out period. No more chances, no more "I will be good, come on, trust me". No NO NO. End all the BS and either the kid commits to getting the help or gets kicked to the curb. MOst want the help but need to be backed into a corner with *no way out* but to accept it. Then again, cases vary. Sometimes it just doesn't matter what anyone does. Some people seem bent on riding that handcart straight into hell.
> lori


 
Sorry for the confusion.  I think you misunderstood.  When I said 'block' I was not talking about leaving the facility to go to another area.  I was talking about the housing area that they were in, or the slang term, leaving the block.  So, yes, I too, am talking about the locked facility.  The State of Ct. has 3 pre-sentence facilities.  Those are considered jails, while the rest are considered prison.  I worked in the jail.  They are all still one in the same with the CT DOC.  So, it was very possible for me to see different people all the time.  It was a revolving door.  They would provide me with a list, during roll call, of the inmates in my block/unit/housing area, whatever you'd like to call it, that were going to programs that night.  Sometimes the list was 2 pages! LOL!  At the set time, the inmates would leave and simply go to another area in the facility.  After the end of the program, they'd all come back.

I saw first hand, the results that these classes were having on the inmates.  Some actually did make it a point to improve, while others, as I said, were using it as nothing more than an excuse to get out for a little while.  It was nothing more than them milking the system.


----------

