# Knifework...



## GouRonin (Oct 8, 2002)

In Russia apparently the knife is a symbol of manhood. I think it's sad that in today's age that we cannot see giving a knife from father to son as a positive thing with good bonding and symbolic overtones of growing up. Instead these namby-pamby cry babies who scream that it's wrong to give kids knives don't want kids to learn about them. Of course these same people have no idea about knife use because they wet their pants at the first sight of a knife even though it's an essential tool. These are the same jerk offs who will tell you bigger knives are more dangerous.
:soapbox: 
Anyway, having raved and ranted,  I was just curious what opinions of the people were regarding knives. I myself am slowly working up to learning how make my own and I think knowing what your tools are is a healthy expression of knowledge.

Can you tell it's been a tough day?


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## Rich Parsons (Oct 8, 2002)

Gou,

When it comes to knives and knifework, I am all for it. As to the arguement of ignorance, this argument never works. Education is the answer.

e.g. In France and Sweden and other countries that have easy access to sex and sexual material actually have a much higher percentage of virgins graduating high school. Why, beacuse they know all the reprecussions of their acts.

e.g. Alcohol, in countries where alcholo is available to minors at an earlier age thru win they do not have the same amount of deaths due to alcohol poisioning or alcohol related deaths.

No, I believe that a knife should be allowed to people to have their tools and to be able to use them. 

Now this is my opinion and I beleive that others are allowed to have there's. I just think I am right in this case.

Have a better day Gou

Rich


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## Roland (Oct 8, 2002)

Actually my first two, were pen knives given to me by my grandfather.
They probally were nothing too special, but just the act of giving them to me was awesome.
Having them was a great trust, a real responsability. 
I felt like I had somehow, somewhere, passed some secret hidden test.
I never pulled it on anybody, only showed them descretly to 3 close friends. 
They were tools. Did I have much use for them back then, no not really. But I did use them on a few occassions to cut string, or pepperettes to share with friends. Heck, one time while climbing a fence a buddy got caught, and I was able to help him by cutting away the vines that were tangled up around his pants leg and shoe. I was a small hero to mu budies that day. Thanks to my grandfather.
Funny thing is, that is one of the few good things he ever did.

The only 2 people I ever saw pull knives in grade school, were both troubled kids, problems at home and school.
If not a knife, something else would have gone down.


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## Rich_ (Oct 9, 2002)

I agree too; I always carry a (legal) penknife, it's far too useful day-to-day to go without. As for people worrying about the danger of criminal carry; it's a fundamentally different argument than gun restrictions - even if all knives over 1" were banned, you could break a bottle. 

Knives are useful tools that are worth respecting.


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## kenposcum (Oct 9, 2002)

Interesting posts.
Teach gun safety and your kid will never blow one of his friends away.  Teach knife safety and he won't gash himself.  It's the same kind of thing.
Too bad in North America we have so many retards it's actually necessary to make laws about this crap.
I agree, Gou...know thy weapon, and it will never fail you.
Or if it does, it's the fault of shoddy government contractors.
:asian:


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## tshadowchaser (Oct 9, 2002)

I taught one son how to handle a knife and respect for them from the time he was 4. The other one didnt learn th esame things because he really wasnt interested in such things at the time.  The one who didnt learn at an early age cuts himslef sharpening a blade now the other one uses a knife as if it where a normal movement of his hand.
  Yes I think teaching a child respect for and use of a weapon is a good thing.


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## Arthur (Oct 10, 2002)

> Too bad in North America we have so many retards it's actually necessary to make laws about this crap.



I think the retards are the ones that think we need laws to protect us from our cooking utensils. Those that pass such laws are creating barriers to education and self responsibility. The more laws there are to "protect us" the more clue less people there will be to do harm.

The push toward government enforced political corectness, erodes what sense of personal and community responsibility people have.

Anybody who can't understand or doesn't care that its illegal to plunge a knife into someone for no reason, certainly won't understand or care about the legal limit on blade length or anything else in that continum.

:soapbox: 

that said... I have a knife passed down to me by my father, and it means a bit more than the othe knives I have which are more eye appealing. The knife served him well in combat, and you can feel it in the blade. It lives and breathes in a sense, and is therefore a living connection between father and son.

Should people learn about knives at a young age? Of course! All people should learn about the tools that will keep them alive and keep them in touch with their human heritage. My opinion anyway.

Arthur

Arthur


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## Damian Mavis (Oct 10, 2002)

"I have a knife passed down to me by my father, and it means a bit more than the othe knives I have which are more eye appealing. The knife served him well in combat, and you can feel it in the blade. It lives and breathes in a sense, and is therefore a living connection between father and son."

That's kind of sweet, in a weird, lethal kinda way.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD


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## Rich_ (Oct 10, 2002)

Out of interest, does anybody practise wielding a knife in their MA? If so, what is it based on - tanto work, fencing, escrima etc.? And what do you get from it?

ROSS has a fencing influence which is lends itself very well to long-blade work, and I find that training knife-on-knife is often a good way to get students to think about range, footwork and closing a lot more. Short-knife work is closer to, maybe, Indonesian styles - once you make contact you stick and work it up the limb - which is great for teaching sensitivity and close control of the limbs.


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## GouRonin (Oct 10, 2002)

Yesterday Vlad was having us do drills where one person uses a knife and one person uses a riot baton. Seeing him use both against his opponent showed the various complexities that each tool brings to the table in what can be done with it.


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## SonnyPuzikas (Oct 10, 2002)

I do agree that teaching youngsters to appreciate and respect the weapon-be it blade or firearm-and giving them clear understanding of weapons purpose does make huge difference. I had knife passed to me by my father (RIP)-same blade he got from his father. It is very dear to me.
Rich-IMO most of Russian blade work has its roots in longer,heavier bladed weapons. I found that using longer and heavier blade in practice has changed my short blade work-made it less restrictive, more direct and compact. At the same time REALLY long and heavy blade can and will change the understanding of distance and timing and usage of whole body,as opposed to arms only, to generate force, change direction and control the blade. It did changed and improved my blade work skills from Silat/Kun Tao realm.

Sonny Puzikas
PROGRESSIVE COMBAT CONCEPTS


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## Rich_ (Oct 11, 2002)

> _Originally posted by SonnyPuzikas _
> 
> *
> Rich-IMO most of Russian blade work has its roots in longer,heavier bladed weapons. I found that using longer and heavier blade in practice has changed my short blade work-made it less restrictive, more direct and compact. At the same time REALLY long and heavy blade can and will change the understanding of distance and timing and usage of whole body,as opposed to arms only, to generate force, change direction and control the blade. It did changed and improved my blade work skills from Silat/Kun Tao realm.
> *



I agree that beyond, say, 18" you get into the realms of pure fencing, with the attendant change in posture, footwork, combat philosophy; the blade becomes the defining characteristic of your fight, your attack and defence and range all in one. I find Bowie knife-sized blades, 9-12", best for teaching the generally applicable material as there is more scope to grab or pass the blade hand and the knife is not so massive as to really affect the dynamics of movement.

The shashka (cavalry sabre) is a clear influence on a lot of the basic movements, exaggerated or suppressed in various amounts but nevertheless there; even bare-handed, there are jointlocks and takedowns that are, fundamentally, slightly modified parry-cut manoeuvers.

The small knifework I find similar to the silat that I've seen - what do you find each style's advantages to be?


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## SonnyPuzikas (Oct 12, 2002)

Rich-my exposure to ROSS is somewhat limited. I totally agree with your statement that much of blade and even empty hand work in ROSS is heavily influenced by shashka tradition of cosacks. Heck-considering Generals background...
IMO Systema blade work is different from that- I guess its blade work influence goes little further back in time- REAL heavy swords used up to 17th century or so. With limited use of the wrist to guide the blade- more of a wave created by compact but very powerful and fast movement from the body controling shoulder and elbow. Not to say that there is no wrist work in Systema blade-many things evolved in past decades of military and special services "oversight" of Systema.
FMA, Silat, Kuntao have much to offer in the realm of blade work. Some of concepts are virtually same as in RMA's blade. SOme other time I will try to express in more detail where it comes together and where I see differences. For now, in few words-IMO RMA's approach to blade work(blade vs blade,blade vs empty, empty vs blade) is more realistic and direct. Ready to take heat for this statement...
 

Sonny Puzikas
PROGRESSIVE COMBAT CONCEPTS


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