# WTF vs Kukkiwon Certification



## popcorn37209 (May 28, 2006)

HI, excuse my ignorance please. I have a black belt certificate from 1987 which is from World Tae Kwon Do Headquarters, signed by Un Yong Kim, world tae kwon do federation. Is this a kukkiwon certificate or is that something different. I know alot has been discussed about this here, but I have just gotten back into Tae Kwon Do and am curious. Thank you, Michael.


----------



## Gemini (May 28, 2006)

Hi Michael First let me welcome you to Martial Talk. Why don't you go over to the Meet & Greet section and introduce yourself. 

Now to address your question. Certification comes from the Kukkiwon, not the World Taekwondo Federation. However, you're not the first person who's said that in the 80's, WTF did in fact, certify people. I'm hoping someone with more information on that will chime in here.


----------



## Last Fearner (May 30, 2006)

Yes, I believe this issue has been discussed here on the Taekwondo Threads at MT before.  The Kukkiwon was built in Seoul, Korea (1971-72, named in 1973) as the offical "National Academy" of Taekwondo in Korea, and is intended to be the World Headquarters of all "offical" Taekwondo training, and Black Belt certification.  The KTA (Korea Taekwondo Association) is in charge of Taekwondo instruction in Korea (National Governing Body).  As a matter of chain of command, the KTA would not be directly responsible for international training or certification.  Thus, the WTF (World Taekwondo Federation) was created (to replace the ITF - International Taekwondo Federation, but that's a whole other story).

Black Belt certificates from the 1970s and 80s were issued from the Kukkiwon, but they were also recognized as WTF certificates.  Dr. Un Young Kim was the President of Both the Kukkiwon and WTF, thus his signature on a Dan Certificate from that era would be a legitimate "Kukkiwon" certificate regardless (unless it was a forgery, or fake certificate).  At the Kukkiwon, if you walk around the curved hallway which surrounds the gym you come to office doors for the KTA, the Kukkiwon, the Korean Olympic committee (and used to be one for the WTF).

Since I was there, I understand that the WTF has relocated its offices, and are no longer at the Kukkiwon building.  The WTF logo used to be on the "Kukkiwon Certificates" but now the WTF has nothing to do with rank or Dan certification.  New certificates come straight from the Kukkiwon, but the old ones with the WTF logo should still be recognized.  The main thing is that there should be a certificate number on your certificate.  You can verify if the Kukkiwon has record of your rank by contacting them.

Good Luck, and welcome to MT! :asian: 
CM D. J. Eisenhart


----------



## popcorn37209 (May 30, 2006)

Thank you for the replies.  I think that it is probably a kukkiwon certificate, but I found a way to contact them on their website and I can check that it is in fact a kukkiwon certificate.  I doubt that it is a forged or fake certificate as I have no questions about my master's integrity or his qualifications.  Thanks again.  

Michael


----------



## Miles (Jun 5, 2006)

popcorn37209 said:
			
		

> HI, excuse my ignorance please. I have a black belt certificate from 1987 which is from World Tae Kwon Do Headquarters, signed by Un Yong Kim, world tae kwon do federation. Is this a kukkiwon certificate or is that something different. I know alot has been discussed about this here, but I have just gotten back into Tae Kwon Do and am curious. Thank you, Michael.



The Kukkiwon is "World Taekwondo Headquarters" so it does sound like a legitimate certificate.  As Last Fearner mentioned, you should have a number (which will be on all subsequent rank certificates).  Generally, Americans have 05 as the first two numbers...

Welcome to MT!

Miles


----------



## allpet (Jun 7, 2006)

I have heard that from 85 to 87 you could get WTF certificates.

They are the same as Kukkiwon certificates.

I can't remember why that was so. But today many are stille calling their Kukkiwon certificates for WTF certificates. :idunno:


----------



## IcemanSK (Jun 7, 2006)

allpet said:
			
		

> I have heard that from 85 to 87 you could get WTF certificates.
> 
> They are the same as Kukkiwon certificates.
> 
> I can't remember why that was so. But today many are stille calling their Kukkiwon certificates for WTF certificates. :idunno:


 
My 1st Dan was in 1985 & its from the WTF, not the Kukkiwon. I hope its legit.


----------



## Last Fearner (Jun 7, 2006)

IcemanSK said:
			
		

> My 1st Dan was in 1985 & its from the WTF, not the Kukkiwon. I hope its legit.


 
I'm sure it is, Iceman, but you could always check to be sure.  I wasn't certain about this, but I remember that there was a time period in the 80's when I believe they were attempting to make the WTF the official international certification organization of Dan Certificates,  keeping "Kukkiwon" certificates only for those who trained in Korea, or perhaps were Korean citizens.

Therefore, there may have been a period where the kukkiwon was not mentioned on the WTF certificates, but they are still as legitimate.  It's just paperwork, and politics.  In fact, having been certified during that period in time makes your certificate all the more unique and valuable in my opinion.

CM D. J. Eisenhart


----------



## matt.m (Jun 7, 2006)

That is cool, I find myself getting smarter the more I read Last Fearner's posts.


----------



## IcemanSK (Jun 7, 2006)

Last Fearner said:
			
		

> I'm sure it is, Iceman, but you could always check to be sure. I wasn't certain about this, but I remember that there was a time period in the 80's when I believe they were attempting to make the WTF the official international certification organization of Dan Certificates, keeping "Kukkiwon" certificates only for those who trained in Korea, or perhaps were Korean citizens.
> 
> Therefore, there may have been a period where the kukkiwon was not mentioned on the WTF certificates, but they are still as legitimate. It's just paperwork, and politics. In fact, having been certified during that period in time makes your certificate all the more unique and valuable in my opinion.
> 
> CM D. J. Eisenhart


 
Master Stoker was kind enough to look into it for me & my 1st Dan from 1985 is legit. 

Ya gotta love paperwork & politics as a way to make people feel important, but not really help others.


----------



## terryl965 (Jun 7, 2006)

IcemanSK said:
			
		

> Master Stoker was kind enough to look into it for me & my 1st Dan from 1985 is legit.
> 
> Ya gotta love paperwork & politics as a way to make people feel important, but not really help others.


 
You are welcome and keep on training.
Terry


----------



## MSUTKD (Jun 7, 2006)

My 1st Dan from 1985 is the same, WTF logo on bottom, greenish paper with little TKD guys all over it.  My 1st Dan number is different than my 2nd - 5th.  I will scan it and post the difference from my 5th.  The Kukkiwon just changed the certificates and ID cards.  

ron


----------



## Miles (Jun 12, 2006)

MSUTKD said:
			
		

> The Kukkiwon just changed the certificates and ID cards.
> 
> ron


 
I saw that Kukkiwon had decided to change the certificates and cards.  I have 3 applications which are being processed and am anxious to see what they look like "up close and personal."

Miles


----------



## cali_tkdbruin (Jun 13, 2006)

MSUTKD said:
			
		

> My 1st Dan from 1985 is the same, WTF logo on bottom, greenish paper with little TKD guys all over it. My 1st Dan number is different than my 2nd - 5th. I will scan it and post the difference from my 5th. The Kukkiwon just changed the certificates and ID cards.
> 
> ron


 
You'd think that they would want to retain the same dan number for each practitioner as they progress up the TKD ladder. Sort of how here in the US you keep your same SSN or driver's license number throughout your entire life. I only hold a 2nd Kukkiwon dan, but both my 1st and 2nd dan certificates have the same Kukkiwon certified dan number. Your situation is different. Maybe it's better that once they assign you a dan number, it's yours forever.


----------

