# Oooooh, Me Aching Knees.



## KenpoGirl (Aug 28, 2002)

As you may or may not be aware, very recently I have started back to training on a full time basis.  I quit for a year and a half because of a partially torn ACL in my left knee.

The thing is after training for about a week and a half, it's my RIGHT knee that's really bugging me.  Don't get me wrong the LEFT still hurts, but I'm use to that pain.  But I didn't expect the right one to hurt.   I'm a little puzzled by this.

So what I'm here for is to ask if you have any "Knee Saving" tips, to improve strength in the knees without doing anymore damage?
Any ideas will be appreciated.

Dot
:asian:


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## sweeper (Aug 29, 2002)

ok 'm not a doctor but from my understanding of physiology that woudn't be directly posable, to strengthen the injured tissue you would genneraly have to exercise it and that may dammage it..  if it feals like a ligament I would give it a rest, if it feals like muscle or tendon I would warm it up and gently stretch it twice or three times a day, maybe do some low intensity high rep exercise in there too..  be very carefull (of course you already know that considering your other knee). One thing I have noticed with my self is after over exerting a muscle even when it's still recovering nd it aches it will function fine and if I do give it an intense exercise it usualy greatly reduces the soreness during the exercise and after it cools down, but I'm not realy suggesting that and that's for muscles, tendonds are diffrent and sprains I treat diffrent.


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## Roland (Aug 30, 2002)

...spend some time walking on his knees. Every chance he got, he spent some time, watching TV, Reading, relaxing, talking, what ever, just moving around on his knees.
A couple of weeks later he felt better and had a lot more movement with his knees. He continues to do this to keep himself limber.

I know, I know, third party information, but know it helped him!


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## sweeper (Aug 30, 2002)

and doing the same thing in judo gave me constant pain in my knees, it realy depends on what the problem is..


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## Roland (Sep 2, 2002)

Got to get proper medical advice, and help.

And even then you got to do what works for you!


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## KenpoGirl (Sep 3, 2002)

I appreciate the advice, I'll just take it day to day.  
Pains gone down a bit, hopefully it's just a matter of getting use to training again.  Loosing weight will certainly help as well.

Thanks again for your interest.

Dot
:asian:


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## J-kid (Sep 3, 2002)

I am using Super blue stuff made from emu oil .  It cost me a bundle 19.99 but it works good and dosnt burn.,  You should try it


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## Wertle (Sep 3, 2002)

Emu oil??


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## KenpoGirl (Sep 3, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Judo-kid _
> 
> *I am using Super blue stuff made from emu oil .  It cost me a bundle 19.99 but it works good and dosnt burn.,  You should try it *



Well I looked into the super blue stuff, we have a store in town that sells "infomercial" items and the Super Blue Stuff was $80, I ain't kidding.   Talk about a mark up.

Even if I ordered it right from their website it would cost me $30 Canadian plush shipping and whatever duty there may be.

   I'm screwed.


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## Roland (Sep 3, 2002)

I had my boxing instructor, who had his Masters in Kinesiology, tell me that for every pound you carry above your waist, it is the equivelent of 10 pounds of pressure on your knees.
Food for thought for all of us I think.


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## KenpoGirl (Sep 3, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Roland _
> 
> *I had my boxing instructor, who had his Masters in Kinesiology, tell me that for every pound you carry above your waist, it is the equivelent of 10 pounds of pressure on your knees.
> Food for thought for all of us I think. *



I hear what you're saying Roland, and I appreciate the information.  I am working on the weightloss as we speak, but that is no a quick fix.  I was hoping for something to ease the pain a bit.  (Some days are better than others).

I've tried Extra Strength Tiger Balm, and sadly didn't really feel any effect, it hardly got tingly.  I think I have too much insulation for it to absorb through to the muscle.  

I will continue to work on my health and weight and hope the knees will improve as I go.

Dot.
:asian:


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## jkn75 (Sep 3, 2002)

There is something that gymnasts use for balance. Its a round inflatable pad that you can stand or kneel on. It's almost like a balance board. You can inflate it to whatever pressure you want the fuller it is the more difficult it is to balance. Your body will autocorrect itself and strengthen the tendons in your legs, if kneeling, in your ankles if standing. 
:asian:


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## Nightingale (Sep 4, 2002)

um... are you kicking in the air, or are you kicking a bag or a target of some kind.

if you're kicking in the air, and you're having knee problems, STOP kicking in the air.  This is the main cause of training injuries for martial artists.   Ask your instructor if you can do your kicks on the bag instead, because when you kick in the air, you're very likely to hyperextend.


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## KenpoGirl (Sep 4, 2002)

> _Originally posted by jkn75 _
> 
> *There is something that gymnasts use for balance. Its a round inflatable pad that you can stand or kneel on. It's almost like a balance board. You can inflate it to whatever pressure you want the fuller it is the more difficult it is to balance. Your body will autocorrect itself and strengthen the tendons in your legs, if kneeling, in your ankles if standing.
> :asian: *



Thanks for the information, I do remember using something like that when I was in Therapy I'll see if I can locate one.  

:asian:


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## KenpoGirl (Sep 4, 2002)

> _Originally posted by nightingale8472 _
> 
> *um... are you kicking in the air, or are you kicking a bag or a target of some kind.
> 
> if you're kicking in the air, and you're having knee problems, STOP kicking in the air.  This is the main cause of training injuries for martial artists.   Ask your instructor if you can do your kicks on the bag instead, because when you kick in the air, you're very likely to hyperextend. *



Yes a portion of our workout is in the air, but the majority is kicking a pad or a wavemaster.  That being said, I will make sure that I am careful not to hyperextend when kicking in the air.  I can certainly see how that would happen.  Thanks for the advice.

:asian:


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## lvwhitebir (Sep 6, 2002)

> _Originally posted by KenpoGirl _
> 
> *As you may or may not be aware, very recently I have started back to training on a full time basis.  I quit for a year and a half because of a partially torn ACL in my left knee.
> 
> ...



Your right knee could be hurting simply because you're favoring that leg... trying to protect the other one.  It could also be that the activity is working on strengthening the joints and you're used to the left one hurting.  If the pain continues, I would try wrapping the knee a little to see if the extra support helps.  But, be careful, you don't want to become dependent on the wrap.  You'll need to wean yourself off of it.

All else fails, see a doctor.  The last thing you want is another knee injury to keep you out longer.


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## Old Warrior (Nov 28, 2002)

Last year I tore the acl, mcl and miniscus in my left knee (motorcycle accident). They were partial tears and I refused surgery for fear that the onset of arthritis would be worse than the limitations.  I'm a fencer (European and Kumdo) and the knews take a pounding but are nowhere's nearly as important as in Karate (my youthful passion).

First of all, I recommend you wear braces on both knees.  Second, adjust your techniques to those that are more friendly to your current physiology.  It's not giving in - its being smart.  Better you should practice those things you can do perfectly, over and over, than stress weaker body parts because your ego doesn't want to let you "give in".

My final piece of advice is to complain alot, limp and let everyone know you have limitations.  Old age and  treachery beats youth and skill every time!  If they let up, you focus harder.  I can't tell you how much enjoy beating up on college kids when I am three times their age and have real physical limitations.


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## KenpoGirl (Nov 28, 2002)

Well it's three months since I first posted this thread.  I'm doing pretty good.  The knees still hurt but not as bad, I just work through the pain.  Though still out of shape, I am getting better, and I've lost about 20lbs, which I'm very pleased about.  

I decided when I started back that I wouldn't use my braces because I didn't want to be dependent on them, I believe it was the right choice because they are stronger than they were, but I do appreciate the advice.  



> _Originally posted by Old Warrior _
> 
> *My final piece of advice is to complain alot, limp and let everyone know you have limitations.  Old age and  treachery beats youth and skill every time!  If they let up, you focus harder.  I can't tell you how much enjoy beating up on college kids when I am three times their age and have real physical limitations. *



LMAO  I am famous for my complaining.    Unfortuneately I don't get to beat up a lot of people as yet because the two people I spar against are much better and larger/taller than I so I'm the one that usually gets beat up.


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## Old Warrior (Feb 23, 2003)

KENPO GIRL

18 mos ago I put down my Harley and tore my acl, mcl and meniscus in my left knee.  Rule 1 - get a reasonbly good brace to prevent twisting.  Rule 2 - build up the knee muscles.  Rule 3 - listen to your body, when its swollen, cut back, ice it and take an anti imflammatory (Aleve is the best).  Rule 4 - HAVE THIS DISCUSSION WITH AN ORTHOPEDIC SURGEON WHO HAS A CONSERVATIVE REPUTATION.


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## Nightingale (Feb 23, 2003)

agreed. check with a doctor.  there's no point in training now if you damage yourself so much you need a knee replacement   just see a specialist to make sure you're not hurting yourself, because pain is your body's way of telling you that you're doing something it doesnt like.


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## KenpoGirl (Feb 23, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Old Warrior _
> *KENPO GIRL
> 
> 18 mos ago I put down my Harley and tore my acl, mcl and meniscus in my left knee.  Rule 1 - get a reasonbly good brace to prevent twisting.  Rule 2 - build up the knee muscles.  Rule 3 - listen to your body, when its swollen, cut back, ice it and take an anti imflammatory (Aleve is the best).  Rule 4 - HAVE THIS DISCUSSION WITH AN ORTHOPEDIC SURGEON WHO HAS A CONSERVATIVE REPUTATION. *



Thank you Old warrior and Nightinggale for the support
it is now 6 months since I posted this thread and started training full time again.

My knees are doing much better than I thought they would.  I do still have some pain, mosting with getting into deep stances or twist stances, those are the real bugger.  I am quite happy, I've lost 25lbs (but none since xmas   ) and I'm hopping more weight loss will help more.  

Thanks again to everyone for the support, I hopping for good things in the future.

Dot

P.S.  I won't be having any surgery the doc told me since it was only a partial tear they would not be doing it.  And yes I do have a knee brace though I've only used it when things get really energetic.  Perfer not to be come dependent on it.


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## Old Warrior (Feb 23, 2003)

"Prefer not to be come dependent on it."

We're talking about preventing severe injury to a damaged knee by limiting movement in directions that can harm the structure.  It's not a sign of weakness or giving in to minor pain.  It's like wearing glasses.  I'd prefer not to, but I can't see anything without them.  What's the point of risking further injury - then you couldn't train at all.

One of the hardest parts of getting older (I'm 54) has been to learn to accept my limitations and work around them.  I am icing my knee at this instant, (Friday's promotion exam and 2 days of snow shoveling did me in) and I am praying the swelling will go down so I don't miss Monday's class.  But right now, walking is a problem.  Don't tempt fate use a brace.


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