# So... about 2 months ago



## Xue Sheng (Jul 9, 2014)

I was in my basement doing the Yang Long form, I had been working on strengthening my knees so I could get to the end of the form and I had succeeded in getting there a couple days before. I had almost finished the form that evening when a thought popped into my head....... "I don't want to do this anymore". And I have not been able to get myself to do the form since.

 Twenty years of Yang taijiquan and it just stopped.


----------



## jks9199 (Jul 9, 2014)

Xue Sheng said:


> I was in my basement doing the Yang Long form, I had been working on strengthening my knees so I could get to the end of the form and I had succeeded in getting there a couple days before. I had almost finished the form that evening when a thought popped into my head....... "I don't want to do this anymore". And I have not been able to get myself to do the form since.
> 
> Twenty years of Yang taijiquan and it just stopped.



Interesting.  Any idea of why?  Have you moved back to the bagua (if I recall correctly)?


----------



## Brian R. VanCise (Jul 9, 2014)

Maybe you need a break to focus on your other areas of interest like hitting trees?


----------



## Hand Sword (Jul 10, 2014)

Sadly,
I've gone through this years ago as well. Yet, somehow, I keep telling myself I'll pick it up again. The years go by and nothing physically speaking. The interest is always there for watching, studying, researching, etc., but in all honesty, when your mind gets to that point- it's over. The more you fight with it, the bigger the disdain will grow inside you. I think it's over, though you may dabble here and there.


----------



## Buka (Jul 10, 2014)

I've had that experience, and probably will again. I always find it strange, but then, you know, do something else. Sometimes I look back and think "I wish I had kept doing that", but thoughts run in and out of my head all day long like squirrels. Maybe you'll have the thought to do it again at some point.

Strange journey, this Martial stuff.


----------



## donnaTKD (Jul 10, 2014)

MA is a lifestyle choice all of it's own.....  you go into it, start the journey, work hard and play harder - changing your routines around pratice and sessions, picking up the odd award (belt) and then you just reach the end of the conveyor belt and it's like wtf am i supposed to do next ?????

i've felt that many a time and not always after a viscious scrap either -- the training becomes monotonous and boring, your coach is just screaming the same s$%t at you all the time - new students turn up that aren't actually "into" it like you are and you get disillusioned with it all.

no one can just call it a day - it's always there in the back of your head, the training the conditioning the hard work that it took to become as good as you are never goes away - think that you'll just go back into your basement and carry on as per usual cos you've been doing it for far too long to ignore it 

give yourself a slap and carry on


----------



## tshadowchaser (Jul 10, 2014)

Sorry to hear you stopped doing something that you seemed to enjoy so much.  Perhaps you will start again in the future.

Life takes  some strange turns for reasons we are not able to figure out. There may be a reason that you will fighure out in the future if you do not push your thoughts on it to much.

Having stopped doing an art I loved for some reason I found that my personality seemed to change as time when by. It changed so much so that my wife told me to start studying again or move out as I had become a real ....... when I was not studying.


----------



## Xue Sheng (Jul 10, 2014)

jks9199 said:


> Interesting. Any idea of why? Have you moved back to the bagua (if I recall correctly)?



I did start training Bagua and I got through a Qigong sequence that is awesome and I still do but then bagua was done too. However the person I was training bagua with was at one time one of my Xingyi teacher and the need for Xingyi was too great so I am back training xingyi and rather happy about it. 



Brian R. VanCise said:


> Maybe you need a break to focus on your other areas of interest like hitting trees?



:hmm:  GOOD IDEA!!!! :EG:

Focusing on xingyiquan but recently something that surprised that I took interest in but not sure I am going to train it or not yet. Either way, as long as my knees hold out Xingyi stays. There is more I am thinking about too, but it all depends on my knees and whether or not Im too old and beat-up. And one of those things I already asked you about 



Hand Sword said:


> Sadly,
> I've gone through this years ago as well. Yet, somehow, I keep telling myself I'll pick it up again. The years go by and nothing physically speaking. The interest is always there for watching, studying, researching, etc., but in all honesty, when your mind gets to that point- it's over. The more you fight with it, the bigger the disdain will grow inside you. I think it's over, though you may dabble here and there.



I have hit bumps in the Taiji road before but nothing like this. But Xingyi is back and Im happy about that



Buka said:


> I've had that experience, and probably will again. I always find it strange, but then, you know, do something else. Sometimes I look back and think "I wish I had kept doing that", but thoughts run in and out of my head all day long like squirrels. Maybe you'll have the thought to do it again at some point.
> 
> Strange journey, this Martial stuff.


 
Bagua was one of those I wished I had kept that styles as well as a Shandong Province old Style Chen form. The Bagua I went back to but decided at my age it was too complicated to continue and actually expect any level of proficiency. As for the Shandong Province old Style Chen form, I still wished I had kept that but I have only known one teacher that knew it and he will no longer teach it. But then even if I kept it likely I would have stopped that a couple months ago as well. 
However Xingyi is back and so far so good 



donnaTKD said:


> MA is a lifestyle choice all of it's own..... you go into it, start the journey, work hard and play harder - changing your routines around pratice and sessions, picking up the odd award (belt) and then you just reach the end of the conveyor belt and it's like wtf am i supposed to do next ?????
> 
> i've felt that many a time and not always after a viscious scrap either -- the training becomes monotonous and boring, your coach is just screaming the same s$%t at you all the time - new students turn up that aren't actually "into" it like you are and you get disillusioned with it all.
> 
> ...



Been there before, this is different and I cant get myself to do it at all. But there is xingyi and another thing that caught my interest that surprised me as well as a possible training path that popped into my head after the taiji just stopped. But most of that depends on my knees.

I use to do a lot of other styles  I no longer do, but none as long as I have done taijiquan



tshadowchaser said:


> Sorry to hear you stopped doing something that you seemed to enjoy so much. Perhaps you will start again in the future.
> 
> Life takes some strange turns for reasons we are not able to figure out. There may be a reason that you will fighure out in the future if you do not push your thoughts on it to much.
> 
> Having stopped doing an art I loved for some reason I found that my personality seemed to change as time when by. It changed so much so that my wife told me to start studying again or move out as I had become a real ....... when I was not studying.


 
My wife has called me martial arts crazy since we were datingtells her family I am tooand theyre all in China 

I was entirely unable to train for a while and I did change, became more irritable at home and more depressed at work. When I could get back to taiji I started to feel better, But there have been bumps in the taiji road before and I got over them, but this time felt very different. 

I was going nuts not training anything and I could not get myself to train taijiquan and that is what got me back to bagua and through that back to Xingyiquan. 

Once I seemed to except that Taiji was done this entire idea for training popped into my head. Now if my knees and age will allow me to do it Ill be fine.

Then just last week I came across something that caught my interest and no one is more surprised than I am about it since I had the opportunity to train it before, actually did for a bit, and then stopped. Mostly out of arrogance associated with the fact I did Traditional Yang Style taijiquan and my lineage in that style, looking back that was silly and a rather bad reason for that assessment. 

But Xingyi first and the rest laterhopefully


----------



## tshadowchaser (Jul 10, 2014)

Good Luck.   I know you'll find the answer or should I say you will find your way.
Sometimes stopping is the answer even if  we do not know the question.  As long as you  are happy keep doing what makes you  happy


----------



## colemcm (Jul 10, 2014)

So what was it that made you decide to stop? I'm reasonably sure that it wasn't a random decision.


----------



## Xue Sheng (Jul 10, 2014)

colemcm said:


> So what was it that made you decide to stop? I'm reasonably sure that it wasn't a random decision.




And I am reasonably sure I have not idea 

I truly do not know, I just stopped. Did the same thing with Guitar several years ago as well. Played it for many years and then one day just did not want to. about 10 years later I did pick it up again and paly a little but mostly they sit in the corner collecting dust.


----------



## colemcm (Jul 10, 2014)

Huh. Maybe it's just been a long time coming? I've noticed that in the time since I've seen your posts you've seemed to be drawn more towards other arts; specifically Xing Yi. Maybe you felt that Xing Yi wasn't an option, so you had to practice Tai Chi by default? Then it was just a matter of familiarity breeding contempt?

Do you feel as though you don't gain anything from Tai Chi anymore?

I'm not trying to talk you into practicing Tai Chi. I'm just curious about the process.


----------



## Xue Sheng (Jul 10, 2014)

colemcm said:


> Huh. Maybe it's just been a long time coming? I've noticed that in the time since I've seen your posts you've seemed to be drawn more towards other arts; specifically Xing Yi. Maybe you felt that Xing Yi wasn't an option, so you had to practice Tai Chi by default? Then it was just a matter of familiarity breeding contempt?
> 
> Do you feel as though you don't gain anything from Tai Chi anymore?
> 
> I'm not trying to talk you into practicing Tai Chi. I'm just curious about the process.



I have been in and out of Xingyi for years (only a couple years less than taiji actually) and being out has always been based on the availability of a teacher. I have been interested in Xingyi since I read an article in what was then "Karate Illustrated" around 1973, long before I ever heard of taijiquan. It just took me about 18 years to find my first teacher. And I was already practicing Japanese jiujitsu at that time and after that pre-Olympic TKD followed. After that came Taiji with who would become my first Xingyi/Bagua sifu as well. There has also been Long Fist, Sanda, Wing Chun, and JKD along the way to today too.

I do not think gaining has anything to do with it. There is a lot to be gained from Taiji at this point since I am coming off of a long injury issue. I just had the thought "I don't want to do this anymore" but the further I get from that and talking about it the last week may be starting to give me some hint as to why, but at this time I am not so sure. 

I loved Chen style, don't want to do it. really liked traditional Yang and it is what I have done most, but can't get myself to do it. Still do qigong and enjoy it, part of one qigong form is bagua circle walking and its great and xingyi is awesome per usual..... but not taiji, I just do not want to do it


----------



## colemcm (Jul 10, 2014)

Interesting. Maybe as you gain distance from it you'll gain more insight into why? 

Maybe the "why" doesn't matter.

Either way, I wish you the best of luck in whatever you pursue next.


----------



## mook jong man (Jul 10, 2014)

Start teaching somebody.
That usually gets me all enthused about Wing Chun all over again.


----------



## Xue Sheng (Jul 10, 2014)

mook jong man said:


> Start teaching somebody.
> That usually gets me all enthused about Wing Chun all over again.



Nah been there done that don't want to so it no more 

No that would mean I would have to do the form, which I no longer want to do.

I did try and start teaching xingyi before my last round of injury issues. But Xingyi is a hard sell and as anyone who teaches knows there is a big difference between saying you want to learn and showing up to learn. 

But to be painfully honest I thought of that and I really do not have any desire to teach anyone at the moment


----------



## ST1Doppelganger (Jul 10, 2014)

Xue Sheng said:


> Nah been there done that don't want to so it no more
> 
> No that would mean I would have to do the form, which I no longer want to do.
> 
> ...



Agreed about the difference of saying your wanting to take martial arts and actually showing up to the scheduled lessons. 

It always blew me away that people would be paying over a $100 a month and only show up to a couple private lessons a week when I use to teach.


----------



## ST1Doppelganger (Jul 10, 2014)

I will agree the long forms do take up some time in your training and I tend to focus on my other CLF, WC & Bagua forms  and am happy to use my 24 step form as a cool down to those forms. 

I really don't know if I could dedicate time to learning the long form and maintaining it since I have the other material I'm focusing on and now the new addition of aikido material as well.


----------



## Xue Sheng (Jul 10, 2014)

ST1Doppelganger said:


> I will agree the long forms do take up some time in your training and I tend to focus on my other CLF, WC & Bagua forms  and am happy to use my 24 step form as a cool down to those forms.
> 
> I really don't know if I could dedicate time to learning the long form and maintaining it since I have the other material I'm focusing on and now the new addition of aikido material as well.



My flavor of Taiji has 
1 Long form
2 fast forms
1 Jian form
2 Dao forms
1 staff form
1 Tuishou form
and various 3 step and one step drills as well as various types of push hands training

Yup, its a lot add to that I use to also try and keep up my Chen Laojia Yilu and the 18 form...throw in Xingyi Wuxing stuff and qigong......not enough time in a day


----------



## Kung Fu Wang (Jul 10, 2014)

Xue Sheng said:


> No that would mean I would have to do the form, which I no longer want to do.


I had stopped doing that 20 years ago. I prefer to use my training time to

- develop new skills,
- enhance old skills.

Some people may want to be able to do a good form when they are 80 years old. I want to be able to handle a 20 years old when I am 80.


----------



## TaiChiTJ (Jul 23, 2014)

Over the years I have heard people of varying levels of exposure to taiji, hsing-i and bagua make something like the following statement: "The three recognized internal arts are at root all basically the same". 

They are and they are not. I remember doing a hsing-i exercise where wood energy is defeated by metal, metal defeated by fire, fire defeated by water, water defeated by earth. Around and around we would go ( teacher had studied with Kenny Gong on the east coast ) endlessly repeating these attack and defense movements. Just going across the room doing one of those elements in a straight line was significantly different than any taiji training I have had. 

So the whole thing about them "all being the same thing", makes me wince. The primarily forward energy of hsing-i can be found in taiji, but it is emphasized in hsing-i. Yes, circular aspects of bagua are in taiji too, but not emphasized as much. Taiji works at the opponent "falling into emptiness". Developing that skill is a lifelong challenge, and many teachers, even on the mainland from what I gather, have practiced hsing-i and bagua too. I once read a quote from an acknowledged taiji master that at some point the taiji player must walk the circle with their taiji postures to fully understand. That opened my eyes. I am rambling a bit and have to get back to work. 


I hope you find a good balance among the many arts you know, Xue Sheng, for a practice that fits your needs now. 
I suspect you will.


----------



## Xue Sheng (Jul 24, 2014)

TaiChiTJ said:


> Over the years I have heard people of varying levels of exposure to taiji, hsing-i and bagua make something like the following statement: "The three recognized internal arts are at root all basically the same".
> 
> They are and they are not. I remember doing a hsing-i exercise where wood energy is defeated by metal, metal defeated by fire, fire defeated by water, water defeated by earth. Around and around we would go ( teacher had studied with Kenny Gong on the east coast ) endlessly repeating these attack and defense movements. Just going across the room doing one of those elements in a straight line was significantly different than any taiji training I have had.
> 
> ...



There is a lot more to Xingyiquan than the 5 elements theory and straight line, there are angles, circles, animal forms and internal training too. But with that said I would say that Xingyi, Taiji and Bagua are similar but not the same, although I do understand and appreciate what you are saying and I have heard the same

My taijiquan sifu (trained in and from China) does not believe you need Xingyi or Bagua to train taijiquan. As a matter of fact he feels Xingyi is so different it could be detrimental to training Taijiquan. But he does feel bagua is "similar" but not the same. But then he also sees similarities between Good Aikido and Taiji too, but again they are not the same. My Shigong only trained Taijiquan, 2 different styles of Taiji but still only Taiji and his teachers were only Taiji people as well. 

As for balance between them, likely will not happen, It is more likely that some are simply just going to go away.


----------



## colemcm (Jul 24, 2014)

My Sifu also held the same belief about Xing Yi and often talked about similarities between Tai Chi and Judo/Jujitsu.

I have a tendency to view the arts as personalities of their own. Some you get along with and others you don't. Sometimes an art just isn't a good fit. Kind of like forcing a friendship with someone you're ambivalent about.


----------



## Xue Sheng (Jul 24, 2014)

colemcm said:


> My Sifu also held the same belief about Xing Yi and often talked about similarities between Tai Chi and Judo/Jujitsu.
> 
> I have a tendency to view the arts as personalities of their own. Some you get along with and others you don't. Sometimes an art just isn't a good fit. Kind of like forcing a friendship with someone you're ambivalent about.



My Taiji sifu has also seen similarities in the Judo, but he is talking about what he has seen from Kyuzo Mifune


----------



## Instructor (Jul 24, 2014)

"Without change, something sleeps inside us and seldom awakens.  The sleeper must awaken!"

Frank Herbert


----------



## colemcm (Jul 24, 2014)

Xue Sheng said:


> My Taiji sifu has also seen similarities in the Judo, but he is talking about what he has seen from Kyuzo Mifune


Mifune's exactly the individual my Sifu was referring to also. 

I think that with an art like Ba Gua it's easy to see how they're similar, since it can incorporate so many disparate styles within it.


----------



## Xue Sheng (Aug 6, 2014)

And then it began just as quickly as it ended

I was standing in Zhan zhuang and that went into the first part of the Yang long form which went into the beginning of the Chen 18 form and ended with a bit of Chen Silk reeling.

Not sure if I will want to do taiji again tomorrow but for the first time in months I did some tonight and enjoyed it

Don't know why it stopped and I don't know why it started


----------



## yak sao (Aug 6, 2014)

Xue Sheng said:


> And then it began just as quickly as it ended
> 
> I was standing in Zhan zhuang and that went into the first part of the Yang long form which went into the beginning of the Chen 18 form and ended with a bit of Chen Silk reeling.
> 
> ...




Maybe it never really stopped, it was just simmering for a while.


----------



## Xue Sheng (Aug 7, 2014)

yak sao said:


> Maybe it never really stopped, it was just simmering for a while.



Could be, time will tell


----------



## zzj (Aug 7, 2014)

Xue Sheng said:


> My Taiji sifu has also seen similarities in the Judo, but he is talking about what he has seen from Kyuzo Mifune



Yep, the similarity is definitely there. Makes me wonder if I would have done better in my Judo if I had some prior grounding in Taijiquan.


----------



## greytowhite (Jul 17, 2015)

Aye, about three years ago I was practicing Chen Xiaowang's 38 form and had almost the exact same thing pop up in my head - I don't practice taijiquan any longer. Since I didn't have the cash for a good instructor I started practicing the Yin bagua material posted on YouTube from Andrew Nugent-Head for Lion and Phoenix. Now I'm learning xingyi and it's so different from the taiji I've learned I would say that if it was a family tree I'd put them as cousins instead of siblings.


----------



## Buka (Jul 18, 2015)

Xue, this past year I stopped sparring. I hadn't done it for a couple of months and suddenly realized I didn't want to anymore. I can't say I miss it. I continued rolling for a while, but that stopped some months ago, too. Can't say I miss that, either.


----------



## Xue Sheng (Jul 18, 2015)

I have not really sparred in a while either, I have not missed it, but I will say it was rather cool when I did. I have work on applications and been knocked down and thrown on the floor, but I have not really sparred in a while.

But since I started working on Taiji again things have been going well. I have had my head turned a bit by Yiquan, but it has not distracted me from taiji and it is enjoyable to train again and still


----------



## greytowhite (Jul 18, 2015)

I've been interested in the Han shi line of Yiquan ever since I saw this video.


----------



## Xue Sheng (Jul 19, 2015)

The Yiquan I recently had the chance to train a little was with Wang Rengang who was a student of Wang Xiangzhai


----------



## Dylan9d (Aug 10, 2015)

Any takes on Taikiken? Seem to be Japanese Yiquan?

Combat science - the Taikiken pages- Kenichi Sawai


----------



## Xue Sheng (Aug 10, 2015)

Dylan9d said:


> Any takes on Taikiken? Seem to be Japanese Yiquan?
> 
> Combat science - the Taikiken pages- Kenichi Sawai



It allegedly comes from Yiquan. Kenichi Sawai is the founder of Taikiken and Kenichi Sawai is assumed to have been a student of Yiquan, but not a student of Wang Xiangzhai. Kenichi Sawai was trained "only" buy Yao Zongxun, one of  Wang Xiangzhai and likely Wang's successor


----------



## mograph (Aug 10, 2015)

Yeah. As the story goes, Wang, er, demonstrated his skill to Sawai, impressing the latter to take up Yiquan. But as you wrote, Yao taught Sawai.


----------

