# Do you have a story on using BJJ in a REAL situation?



## sli (Dec 30, 2006)

I would love to learn BJJ someday.  I have been reading books, watching video, and visiting BJJ schools that teach SPORT BJJ.
We all know that BJJ is a must-have in a UFC fight (with rules and referees to protect fighters).  
But I am not so sure SPORT BJJ alone is enough in a real fight or self-defense situation since SPORT BJJ has only one opponent and no striking involved. Please do not turn this thread into a hate mail. That was my observation.
Did any of you use BJJ in a REAL situation (not including any arranged fights)? 
May I have the details account? Thanks.
i.e. Who did you fight? Why? How did it go from stand-up fighting to ground fighting? Did you know you are dealing with only one person? How did it end (i.e. ran away, called police, )? What did you learn? etc...


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## Tez3 (Dec 30, 2006)

I think it's a common misconception that you need BJJ in the UFC (you need MMA if fighting in the cage/ring). This came about when the Gracies became involved. I haven't used BJJ in a real life situation, used a few other things though. I think others will tell you the best places to go for self defence classes better than I can.


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## zDom (Dec 30, 2006)

Well, not BJJ, but I DID use similar techniques learned from my hapkido instructor.

Do you care to hear about it?


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## arnisador (Dec 30, 2006)

Where I study BJJ we practice it mostly as a sport so as to isolate the grappling aspects, but the instructor frequently demonstrates where the strikes are and how to do them from the position you're in. The 'sport' aspect is more important than you might think: Imagine how good a boxer you'd be if you had to practice it by sparring a wrestler every time. You'd need to go boxer-to-boxer improve your specific boxing skills. It's the same with grappling.

You do need to mix them some times. But 'sport' systems like (kick)boxing, wrestling, Judo, BJJ, etc., are some of the best, because you practice against a live, resisting opponent. Don't look too harshly on 'sport' systems!


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## wade (Dec 31, 2006)

OK, dumb question, what is BJJ?


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## MJS (Dec 31, 2006)

wade said:


> OK, dumb question, what is BJJ?


 
Brazilian Jiu-jitsu  

Mike


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## wade (Dec 31, 2006)

Thank you, just never heard that term before.


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## MJS (Dec 31, 2006)

wade said:


> Thank you, just never heard that term before.


 
No problem.   This art really sparked my interest when the first UFC debuted back in '93.  

Mike


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## Tenguru (Jan 1, 2007)

Tez3 said:


> I think it's a common misconception that you need BJJ in the UFC



You are correct.  You do not need BJJ to compete in the UFC, especially if you plan on being submitted.


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## Tez3 (Jan 1, 2007)

Tenguru said:


> You are correct. You do not need BJJ to compete in the UFC, especially if you plan on being submitted.


 

Mmm, Trad Juijitsu and Judo will do as nicely. What do you actually think BJJ is then? Yes it's called Brazilian as they do a form of JJ over there as famously done by the Gracies but you will find there's no 'new' moves in there that Judoka and Trad JJ people won't know or be able to do.


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## Marvin (Jan 1, 2007)

Tez3 said:


> Mmm, Trad Juijitsu and Judo will do as nicely. What do you actually think BJJ is then? Yes it's called Brazilian as they do a form of JJ over there as famously done by the Gracies but you will find there's no 'new' moves in there that Judoka and Trad JJ people won't know or be able to do.


 
Not entirely correct. Since judo's focus has become on getting the ippon, the ground work has decreased a bit, a lot of judoka don't now much ground work at all (this is changing because of the popularity of bjj. The techniques are there, but the judoka just don't rep them as much as the they do techniques in the clinch/throw area. Now traditional jj is not very similar to bjj at all, lot more stand up techniques, mostly straight arm locks and wrist locks from standing, the ground work is more of using the wrist or arm lock to put the person on the ground, not much resistance from your training partner, again this is changing because of the popularity of mma.


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## arnisador (Jan 1, 2007)

Tez3 said:


> Mmm, Trad Juijitsu and Judo will do as nicely.



In theory, yes; in practice, I agree with *Marvin*. But there are otehr options too, such as sambo, catch-wrestling, etc.


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## The Kidd (Jan 2, 2007)

To answer your original question, yes I have used it. I work in a school and one of the kids attacked me, we went to the ground, I did not want to strike him and do alot of damage (especially to my pocket book) so being on top of him (in a side mount) I put him in a key-lock (a shoulder lock) and he went from yelling he was going to kick my butt and kill me to rather cooperative in no time.


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## Kenpojujitsu3 (Jan 2, 2007)

Marvin said:


> Not entirely correct. Since judo's focus has become on getting the ippon, the ground work has decreased a bit, a lot of judoka don't now much ground work at all (this is changing because of the popularity of bjj. The techniques are there, but the judoka just don't rep them as much as the they do techniques in the clinch/throw area. *Now traditional jj is not very similar to bjj at all, lot more stand up techniques, mostly straight arm locks and wrist locks from standing, the ground work is more of using the wrist or arm lock to put the person on the ground, not much resistance from your training partner*, again this is changing because of the popularity of mma.


 
Depends on which "ryu" of "traditional" Ju Jitsu you study and where you study it as this is not the case at all in what and/or how I studied prior to even hearing about or seeing BJJ.  A VERY false assumption.


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## Marvin (Jan 2, 2007)

Kenpojujitsu3 said:


> Depends on which "ryu" of "traditional" Ju Jitsu you study and where you study it as this is not the case at all in what and/or how I studied prior to even hearing about or seeing BJJ. A VERY false assumption.


I can only take your word for this, as all of JJJ that I have seen did not look very much like bjj. I would be interested in what "ryu" had the same type of ground work as bjj, I have never claimed to have seen everything under the sun (just quite a bit of it   ). Thanks


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## arnisador (Jan 2, 2007)

My experience with JJJ has overwhelmingly been of the stand-and-arm-lock/throw variety. I don't doubt there are styles with extensive groundwork--after all, that's how we got Judo (and hence BJJ!). But, my experience has been that a typical JJJ system has that material de-emphasized if present at all...but as noted, the current situation has resulted in a change of emphasis in many places.


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## matt.m (Jan 7, 2007)

I am with Tez3 on this.  You all do understand that the stuff you see the Gracies do is nothing more than Judo groundwork for the most part.  True Kodokan Judo is extremely effective and noted for not only its kazushi (ippon) mentality but it is in no way shape or form weak in ground work.

Helio learned from a Japanese man that had certified dan ranking from Jigoro Kano.  BJJ is just an offshoot of Judo, judo as a sport and not art.  Sorry,  if you question this then read the history of BJJ in the BJJ Encycolpedia.  Three volumes all about the gracies.


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## Rook (Jan 8, 2007)

Marvin said:


> I can only take your word for this, as all of JJJ that I have seen did not look very much like bjj. I would be interested in what "ryu" had the same type of ground work as bjj, I have never claimed to have seen everything under the sun (just quite a bit of it  ). Thanks


 
Mostly, BJJ is judo groundwork practiced in a very focused and organized manner.  Virtually all judo groundwork came from Maeda, who was a JJJ instructor as well as a judo expert.  Virtually all Judo newaza originated within the now-extinct Fusen ryu system of jujutsu.  I suspect that as you look more into the history of the ryus, you will find them much more diverse than they first appear, even though there is a great deal of overlap between individual systems.  Also, sometimes the traditions themselves have been influenced by modern practices (for instance, judo breakfalls have a strange tendancy to show up in systems in which they are not traditional because most boys in Japan have some training in judo at school).


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## Tez3 (Jan 8, 2007)

matt.m said:


> I am with Tez3 on this. You all do understand that the stuff you see the Gracies do is nothing more than Judo groundwork for the most part. True Kodokan Judo is extremely effective and noted for not only its kazushi (ippon) mentality but it is in no way shape or form weak in ground work.
> 
> Helio learned from a Japanese man that had certified dan ranking from Jigoro Kano. BJJ is just an offshoot of Judo, judo as a sport and not art. Sorry, if you question this then read the history of BJJ in the BJJ Encycolpedia. Three volumes all about the gracies.


 
My instructor is an old style Judoka, the judo and juijitsu he teaches is very effective on the floor! I believe, from reading stuff on another forum, that modern Judo had been altered a lot to make it more spectator friendly for the Olympics which a great many deplore. I can understand I suppose as the groundwork we do, as in MMA may be a bit boring for uninformed spectators who want to see flashy throws etc.


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## matt.m (Jan 8, 2007)

Tez3 said:


> My instructor is an old style Judoka, the judo and juijitsu he teaches is very effective on the floor! I believe, from reading stuff on another forum, that modern Judo had been altered a lot to make it more spectator friendly for the Olympics which a great many deplore. I can understand I suppose as the groundwork we do, as in MMA may be a bit boring for uninformed spectators who want to see flashy throws etc.


 

Just as TKD has been hit on.  Really though, Judo-True Kodokan Judo has ever bit as much ground work as stand up.  GGM Park and GGM Shin as well as He-Young Kimm, who were all students at the Korean Yudo Academy have been noted as saying the same thing.

I was talking last week with a sixth dan friend of mine who I trained under for a year, he said and I quote "MMA, BJJ, is great for one thing; showing the need for ground work.  For that purpose it has done a wonderful job."


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## Tez3 (Jan 9, 2007)

There seems to be a lot of 'dumbing down' to get audiences in, mostly for TV companies I think. My other sport is Dressage riding, it's very technical (like kata for horses!) frankly it's only going to appeal to fellow enthuisiasts but the powers that be, mostly the Olympic commitees want it to be made easier, more spectator friendly for the TV cameras but if you aren't interested in horses you aren't going to watch whatever they do! The same with martial arts, if people aren't interested no amount of dumbing Judo and TKD is going to make them so why change the rules etc? All it does is ruin good effective styles and tuen them into not much more than staged film fights a la Jet Li etc.


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## KempoGuy06 (Jan 9, 2007)

I had to subdue a guy at a bar with a choke because he hit one of my friends. 

B


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## Kenpojujitsu3 (Jan 9, 2007)

Marvin said:


> I can only take your word for this, as all of JJJ that I have seen did not look very much like bjj. I would be interested in what "ryu" had the same type of ground work as bjj, I have never claimed to have seen everything under the sun (just quite a bit of it  ). Thanks


 
Let's See you said the SAME type which is misleading.  BJJ grappling is very heavily influenced by Western Wrestling (check the transitions) and also was borne out of a philosophy which used minimal striking.  JJJ incorporated striking with it's groundwork as it was designed for fighting not for sport initially.  Hense many of the transitions are different.  But the core is the "same" Some examples are as follows.

1) Fusen Ryu JuJitsu which isn't as defunct as most people think it is...

2) Many schools of Danzan Ryu JuJitsu spend considerable time on the ground

3) Kosen Judo taught in VERY few places as "Kosen JuJitsu"

4) Many schools of Goshin JuJitsu or Goshin-Jitsu are VERY ground focused as Goshin Ju Jitsu has become almost as generic a term as "Karate"

5) and others as well..


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## Tez3 (Jan 12, 2007)

If people disagree with you why don't they leave their name? I train, teach, teach, fight and ref MMA.I also manage and promote MMA fights and fighters. I do Juijitsu, Judo, Muay Thai, Karate, Aikido and anything else that helps me so yes I do speak as a matter of fact and am therefore not that incorrect!


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## Darth F.Takeda (Jan 14, 2007)

I do TJJ  as you call it and we have  all the basic positions and subs of BJJ, but they do do it differently, and as we have a  few techniques on the ground  you might not find in BJJ, They have some techniques on the ground we dont.
Many of us crosstrain in BJJ, or rip off some of the varients they use.


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## rocketrich (Dec 7, 2007)

Marvin said:


> Not entirely correct. Since judo's focus has become on getting the ippon, the ground work has decreased a bit, a lot of judoka don't now much ground work at all (this is changing because of the popularity of bjj. The techniques are there, but the judoka just don't rep them as much as the they do techniques in the clinch/throw area. Now traditional jj is not very similar to bjj at all, lot more stand up techniques, mostly straight arm locks and wrist locks from standing, the ground work is more of using the wrist or arm lock to put the person on the ground, not much resistance from your training partner, again this is changing because of the popularity of mma.


How much Ju-jitsu or judo have you trained in? I thinks it funny when people talk about what is not in an art and have never seen it or only trained in in it for a little while. Or have not trained with true masters.


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## Marvin (Dec 7, 2007)

Hi RocketRich, since you quoted me in your post I assume you want to know about "my" personal experiences in those arts? I have trained in judo jujitsu and aikido. I see in your posts that you are in mid michigan area. You should know who the judo and jujitsu and aikido instructors are / were in the Flint area. Beyond that shoot me an e-mail or call and we can talk about any questions you have about my experience.


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## Spinback (Dec 26, 2007)

Hi guys, I'm new here. Just throwing in my two cents...

A lot of people are tossing around their martial arts resumes and claiming to know more than everyone else. My resume isn't very impressive so I won't do that. 

But I have a lot of respect for BJJ. We've all seen what it can do in the octagon. From the little of it I know, I'd say it focuses intensively on getting a submission, which is why it's so successful. I've never had a real class of BJJ in my life; I learn the techniques by reading about them and watching videos. Before you start telling me that won't work... well, it does. My regular grappling buddy is fifty pounds heavier than me and an experienced wrestler who tried to learn BJJ the same way I did. He's in way better shape and (obviously) way stronger than I am, but I still beat him about half the time. Maybe I'm a special case, but the point I'm making is this: with _nothing_ but the knowledge of a few BJJ techniques and my natural fight instinct I can beat bigger, stronger, faster opponents who have more training than me. So does BJJ work? Yes. Is it the best/most practical grappling art? There's no way to say.

*You want an example from "real life"? I have one.* Sort of. It's not an attempted mugging, but it's something.

I started dating a new girl recently and she invited some of her friends to our university to hang out. We were all walking down the hall way and her and one of her guy friends were play-wrestling. Jokingly, I told her to "tag" me, and when she did, grabbed the guy's head loosely. In response, he picked me up onto his shoulder.

I'm really not a big guy-- 150 lbs. I have alot of buddies that are bigger than me, so I'm used to getting picked up when we're playfighting or sport fighting. But the situation here went differently. What I didn't know about this guy I just met is that he's trained in CSW, incredibly competitive and likes people to be scared of him. I believe he wanted to make an impression on me. He weighs 170 lbs, and is a mass of muscle and energy. I was comfortable with him picking me up, but then things went sour.

He dropped me in a full-on body slam on the concrete floor. I realized halfway down he wasn't going to "catch" me, so I used my underhook-overhook combination to bear hug him and landed flat on my back to minimize the damage. When he realized I wasn't going to give up he tried to pick me up and slam me into the wall, but I had sank a guillotine choke and before he could lift me he was pounding the floor, gasping for air.

So it's not a street fight, but this is an example of a real-life scenario where a bigger, stronger, better fighter was actually trying to hurt me. And he did hurt me. My chest and back felt compacted for the next two days and I was short of breath for several hours. But I could have killed him with the guillotine, simple as that.

My answer: BJJ can be practical in a real fight if you use it at the right time, in the right way. But that doesn't mean you should go for a double leg if someone pulls a knife on you.

Hope I didn't bore everyone too much. In recent years I've become a really peaceful guy who just likes fighting, but when I was a kid I had a horrible temper. I used to fight every bully and punk on the playground, and I never lost. If you want me to pull some of _those_ stories out (they're interesting, since I didn't know any technique at the time), just say the word. I like writing


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## Razul eaox (Jan 13, 2008)

I have only once. i was messing around with another former wrestler, he thought i couldnt fight anymore because i took up other ground work, judo and jiu jitsu, so anyway we were messing around on the ground, then it got a little more serious. I could have easily opened up his face with an elbow but he is my friend. well he provoked me a little and i ended it in a leg lock.


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## Cruentus (Jan 13, 2008)

With these discussions, I find that there are a lot of assumptions as to what BJJ "is" and what it isn't. I recommend that if you haven't done so, that you actually take a class, and ask an instructor for solutions to problems that you would face in a "real" fight,  vs competition. A good open-minded instructor will be happy to answer "what-if's" and "what-about" type questions if you catch him at a good time (not in the middle of an instructional but before or after class).

I have done some BJJ, but I am by no means an expert. I really need to get in and do some more training when my schedule permits (its my next "art" to learn). But I was pleasently surprised when talking and training with some Ciaque BJJ instructors http://www.caiquejiujitsu.com/(S(jf2yww55wmgvv255tc5tu445))/Default.aspx that they had some viable self-defense solutions as far as martial arts go. And no, it wasn't all "take them to the ground and submit them" solutions; if anything it was the opposite. Now, that could of been because the instructors I worked out with had military backgrounds and were self-defense minded, or it could have been the art, or both.

So, it matters who you talk too. But to me BJJ is like any other art that is good; it has a good delivery system, and it has good solutions to problems that fit the doctrine/strategy of that system.

But I do think that who you talk to matters.


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## MMAkid1 (Feb 28, 2008)

Though I am only 18, it's sounds like you and I are a lot alike. I am relativley peaceful now, but did not become so until after my freshman year, until which I was an ***hole with an extremely volatile temper.


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## MMAkid1 (Feb 28, 2008)

BTW I am speaking to spinback.


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## MMAkid1 (Feb 28, 2008)

And I have never taken a BJJ class in my life. Just books and video. And I research more of 10th Planet Jiu-jitsu rather than Brazilian.


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