# Seven Star Praying Mantis Style



## mantis

*



			Seven Star Mantis: The Complete Package
		
Click to expand...

*


> - by Sifu          Jeff Hughes





> The legendary Wong Long, creator of the famous northern          shaolin seven star praying mantis system of kung fu, developed his system          while spending his days at the Shaolin Temple.
> Taking the best techniques from 17 other styles of the time, Wong created          one of the most effective fighting systems ever developed in China. Some          of these techniques include the long fist of tai cho, short fist of Un          Yian, monkey style of Sun Tan and the throwing strokes of Wai Tek. Combined          with the movements used by the praying mantis insect, these techniques          gave birth to the seven-star mantis system.
> The northern mantis system remained in the Shaolin Temple for several          generations until a wandering Taoist monk named abbot Sheng Hsiao Tao          Jen came to visit the sacred grounds. After mastering the mantis style,          Tai Jen left the temple and became the first person to disseminate this          style throughout China.​ *"Li the Lighting Fist"*
> Tao Jen handed over the system to Li San Chen, who established a security          service called the "Pui Kuk." Li was revered in Northern China          and was known to thieves as "Li the Lightening Fist." His skills          were so great he was never defeated. When Li was much older, while searching          for a worthy student, he met Wang Yung Sheng, a national boxing champion.          Before he taught Yung Sheng, Li challenged the young champion to a friendly          match. Yung Sheng couldn't even touch the much older master; Li simply          seemed to vanish every time Yung attacked. Once Li touched Yung Sheng,          Li was immovable. Yung Sheng eventually became the third successor of          the mantis system.
> Wang passed his teaching on to Fan Yuk Tang, who weighed over 300 pounds          and was known for his iron palm skills. He achieved widespread fame in          China by accepting an open challenge from a Russian fighter in the early          1870's. Traveling to Siberia, Fan defeated the Russian champion along          with several other challengers. Fan's disciple, Lo Kwan Yuk, earned the          title of fifth successor of the system.
> In 1919, after leaning of Lo's reputation as a fighter, the committee          of the Shanghai Chin Wu Athletic Association, hoping to fill the position          of chief instructor, sent a representative to Shantung to invite Lo to          Shanghai. Lo accepted the position and trained many successful students.          His fighting techniques proved themselves again when one of his top students,          Ma Ching Hsin, took first place at a national Chinese boxing competition.
> The next successor, Chao Chi Man, was already an accomplished martial          artist when he met Lo. The late grandmaster Chao Chi Man joined the Hong          Kong Chin Wu Association in 1924, where he studied the shaolin tan tui          style for six years. He also trained in eagle claw and tai chi chuan.          When Lo was honored as one of the "Four Super-Lords" of the          Chin Wu Association, Chao Chi Man began to follow him. In 1930, Chao Chi          Man committed his studies to seven star mantis kung fu.​ *Opening the "Closed Door"*
> Chao Chi Man disseminated the seven star system to his nephew, Chiu Leun,          who already had a background in mantis style through his apprenticeship          at a temple with the "Big Monk" and the "Little Monk."          Chiu Leun spread the art to America when he relocated to New York's Chinatown.          It was here that sifu Raymond Fogg began his studies under the grandmaster.          Fogg, one of the few "closed-door" disciples, dispersed the          art first in Washington, D.C., and later in Texas.
> As taught by grandmaster Chiu Leun and master Fogg, the seven star system          is a complete fighting style with many empty hand, weapons, and two-person          sets. Iron palm and iron arm training constitute just part of the advanced          training instruction, along with the lo han qigong set.
> The art of chi sau or "sticky hands" is widely known in wing          chun and in the push hands on tai chi chuan. Mantis chi sau is similar,          but has specific guiding techniques and principles. Chi sau allows a practitioner          to elevate his techniques through the skill if touch, which allows one          to "measure" and "listen" to his partner or adversaries          intentions.
> When learning chi sau, you must learn to follow the other's movement without          leading. The is done with great patience and complete trust in your sifu's          guidance. Much time should be taken to slow one's movements, calm the          spirit, and fully "hear" one's opponent. This calmness eventually          can be carried into a full-speed, full-power combat. Other important principles          to remember in chi sau include saying relaxed yet "full" and          constantly moving with no wasted movements. Use weight to follow up strikes          and always keep one's body sensitive. The slightest touch can lead to          the hand slipping away.​ *The Key to Mantis*
> Achieving high-level mantis chi sau skills can only be accomplished by          placing emphasis on the training of the system's drills and techniques,          and working long hours on forms, which include chin na jointlocking, throws,          and groundfighting. Chi sau helps a practitioner successfully apply the          technique's forms, which ultimately hold the key to the knowledge handed          down form master to student. Tong Long practitioners are famous for blocking          a punch and then following the arm into a "hook," where they          can pluck or redirect their opponent before striking. When using chin          na jointlocks, mantis stylists break and/or quickly move on to a strike          or throw. Using chi sau skill, one can find his competitor's center and          throw him off balance. Chi sau, along with rolls, can be used to escape          chin na. To make all strikes count, aim at sensitive areas and pressure          points.
> It is important to remember the "rules governing wushu:" when          you get hurt, dont let your opponent know; use deception to vary your          techniques. Kung fu us based on circles, so try to make your strikes go          in circles or in an arc. When in combat, use your spirit and facial expressions.          Mantis hops and other mantis footwork, such as chien (dodging) and sim          bo, are used in a controlling manner to gain momentum. Ja bo, which is          similar to bagua's walking circle, teng (jumping) and chi jert "sticky          feet" are important parts of mantis footwork.
> In combat, "body handling" or controlling the opponent's elbow          must not only be learned, but also mastered. When grabbed, yield and twist,          using circular motions in the direction of the force. Then follow then          attack. Collapsing techniques can be both offensive and defensive in nature.​ *Effective in Combat*
> Chi sau heightens a martial artist's sense of awareness and increases          contact reflexes. One purpose is to sense for centerline mistakes. Along          with the fighting drills, these principles allow a practitioner to incorporate          a series of techniques into his mantis repertoire. Other chi sau drills          include choi som sau, noi gwa sau, and jim lim sau. These drills, combined          with strict adherence to the 12 principles of attack and defense and eight          hard and 12 soft principles, allow a student to understand why the mantis          system is so effective in combat.
> Fogg was introduced to chi sau in Washington, D.C., where he studied the          mantis system under sihing Randy Burly. He later trained mantis fighting          under Chiu Leung and in mantis boxing under sifu Henry Chung. He said          chi sai training helped him develop sensitivity.
> "In kung-fu, one must learn to listen with their arms, hands, and          body," Fogg explained. "In a fight, most of the damage will          be done in close quarters. That is, the range of touching, which allows          one to use all of the sensitivity developed in the chi sau or jeem leem."
> Scratching the surface of seven star praying mantis is easy, Fogg added,          What separates the beginner from the advanced student is his understanding          and mastery of the eight hard principles and 12 soft principles.
> "Well, it becomes obvious that the 12 are more important to obtain.          Furthermore, becoming one with the 12 soft principles is a much harder          task to accomplish than becoming one with the hard principles," Fogg          noted. "Many practitioners lack the patience required to understand          the importance of the soft and without understanding it becomes even harder          to achieve."
> Still, a mastery of chi sau techniques adds to the mantis practitioner's          arsenal of weapons, Fogg insisted.
> "Learning and achieving aspects of chi sau (jeem leem), I became          more confident in my skills and found that my growth could be infinite."​



        Published in the October 2004 release of Inside Kung Fu Magazine


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## mantis

the 12 keywords passed down from the creator of the system (wang lang)


> NGAU(hooking)  - This refers to the ACTION of hooking. As the opponents punch comes toward you, your hand make a hooking action to intercept the attack. This can be done with any hand form but usually a simple open hand is used. The open hand can easily grab or go into another hand formation.
> 
> LAU(retain) - I prefer the term retain as opposed to hold. Hold is passive and retain implies that something is going to happen (active). Lau is usually applied after Nagu as the basic technique. Lau can be a simple grab or a complex pressure point lock.
> 
> CHOY(pluck/pick)- To pluck or pick up something. As the attack comes, you pluck it out of the air. This is a cross body technique. That means: if your left leg is forward, you pluck with the right hand. The cross body technique works on the same principle as the reverse punch. Although you can pluck anytime, if the pluck comes from the same side (left pluck with left leg forward) a stepping action is usually employed to make up for the power lost from the reverse action.
> 
> GWA(hang/suspend) - The technique used to represent the Gwa principle is the overhead block (usually accompanied by a punch). Although the overhead block is a way to express this principle, it limits the idea or scope of  what Gwa really means. Gwa means to hang in the air period. This applies to striking as well as blocking.
> 
> DIU(hook) - This refers to the mantis "hook" hand formation. This hook is a noun as in a fishing hook. As opposed as the hook in Ngau a verb implying the action of hooking. The Diu can be used to strike as well as trap. Furthermore, the back of the Diu (wrist) is used to strike as well as the knuckles.
> 
> JEUN (advance) - This principle means that you attack as soon as you block/parry. Literally it means "to go forth". One can advance after a block with the same hand (Diu Juen) or block with one hand while striking with the other (Diu Da / Bong Da). Advanced practitioners block and strike at the same time. "Lin siu bong da" (the block and attack happens together). This applies to hand / foot combinations as well.
> 
> BONG(crush / smash) - This implies smashing down from above. In the system we have two forms of "backfist" strikes. The gwa choy and the bong choy. The gwa choy represents the same type of backfist strike as any other style. But the  bong choy represents an overturned backfist that comes from high to middle / low. In Bong Bo (Bung Bo, Peng Pu) the kneeling stance (gwai ma, yup wan bo), is taken with a bong choy (overturning crush fist) this is commonly mistaken as a simple backfist. but the move is a power move. The stance collapses and the fist crushes. The term Bong Bo (crushing / collapsing step) has two meanings. First is the technique itself as just explained. Secondly, it means that if you master this form, your opponent will have his steps crushed ( be knocked down / defeated). Bong Bo is the first form created in the system by Wong Long. It was his desire to make it a comprehensive fighting form. Don't be fooled into thinking it is a basic form. The complexities of Bong Bo are many. Buts that's for another web page.
> 
> DA (strike) - To strike means that you strike with any and all of your body weapons. Hand, foot, knee, elbow, head, wrist, forearms, shoulders (the 8 obstacles). The Bong Da is commonly used in the system. That means that your strike should carry strength behind it. "The blows fall like rain" is an expression that implies striking with impunity. The idea of striking as prime objective is essential to the mantis style. The notion that the main technique is to strike and all other techniques (chin na na, tripping, trapping, pushing, etc.) are with this in mind.
> 
> JIM(contact) - The next few principles have to do with touching your opponent. Jim is to make contact to feel your opponents intention, strength, temperament and commitment. Contact can be made by grabbing, pulling, pushing, striking, kicking and slapping. For example: if you punch at your opponent and he blocks it you have made contact. Now, if the punch was not really your true attack (the unreal) you have made contact for the next movement. You should always be at least two moves ahead of your opponent (the real). We say the unreal to the real must go (looks like an attack but really is a set up).
> 
> LIM(cling) - The idea of clinging is meant to indicate that, after an attack the action continues. Jim and Lien are often used in conjunction with each other (contact, cling). Clinging can be inner gate or outer gate. Clinging can also be used for defense or lead into offensive strategy. The clinging or sticking action can be done advancing and retreating. If an opponent jabs at you quickly, you will not be able to grab his wrist 100% of the time. But with the Lim sao action as you block the jab, your hand sticks and follows the opponent's wrist as it returns. Then when the jabbing hand has slowed down a bit, it can be grabbed easily. There is a special two person practice to develop the sticking process called Jim Lim Sao. This is what is known as the sticking hands of mantis.
> 
> TIP(tag) - Used in conjunction with Kau, Tip is an outer gate contacting action. Its scope is similar but not the same as Jim (contact). Tip is always fast and uses an open hand. When you Tip, you are usually smacking the back of the opponents wrist with your own. Just the name "tag" implies quick contact.
> 
> Kau(lean) - Unique to the mantis style, Kau is a leaning on to the opponent technique. It is mainly done in a twisted stance (unicorn, nau ma, scissors). But other stances can be used. The left elbow comes up from underneath the opponent's arm as the right hand holds the same arm outstretched. It can be seen extensively in the "Joy Bo Tong Long Kuen" (drunken stepping mantis form).


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## mantis

the 4 principles of movement...


> The four principles of movement are used in conjunction with the previously mentioned 12 principles. There are many  movements in our style. It is like a large puzzle. The principles of
> movement turn it into a puzzle in which no matter how you put the pieces together, they fit. This is in part why the moves are done a certain way. The four principles of movement are:
> 
> 1. Gow (reeling)
> 2. Pow (casting)
> 3. Faw (float)
> 4. Jum (sink)
> 
> The principles of movement are based on the principles of opposites. Every action has an equal, opposite reaction. Cause and effect. First let me explain the first two principles; reeling and casting.
> 
> To try to make it  clear, if you stand up and pull your left fist back to your shoulder with force this is called REELING, you will feel the right side of your body start to move foward/turn automatically and naturally. Now, as you feel your right side start to move punch out with your right fist. Try this a few times and you will see the left hand movement gives impetus to the right hand. The right hand action is called CASTING. It it sort of like the pulley action in a simple karate / kung fu reverse punch but the use of the type of action  with the arms away from the body is unique.
> 
> Since one action causes an equal opposite reaction, reeling and casting are the way we use less of our own physical power and more technique to generate power. The use of physical power slows you down. So we seek a balance between the use of physical power and technique.  So, to
> reiterate, the left hand diu sao pulled in and caused the body to move forward. This is the foundation of the way we move and gives our movement its unique wavy, swaying flavor when done properly.
> 
> Next is FLOATING and SINKING two more opposites. When  punching from the seven star stance, the fist does not go directly from the hip to the target. The fist cocks up near the jaw and THEN punches. This gives the punch a half second lag. This is used to throw off the timing of the punch. When the hand cocks up, the opponent reacts to what appears to be a punch. Then when
> the punch comes half a second late the opponent's first reaction causes him to be out of sync with the punch and he is forced into an awkward retaliation. Furthermore, the cocking of the arm enables you to change to another technique such the blocking of an unexpected movement of the opponent.
> 
> As you cock the fist, you raise the rib cage. This combination of rib lifting with the cocking movement is called FLOATING. In advanced stages, floating is used in another interesting way by separating the top portion  from the bottom portion of the body for a "splitting" action that gives
> independent movement of top and bottom.
> 
> Now, after you cock the arm near the jaw, you are going to punch. The punch goes slightly upward then forward as it descends. As the punch descends, the ribcage collapses. This causes your punch to sink. The SINKING action causes the punch to be connected to the body not just the shoulder. So that you are not hitting with just the arm not the entire body. Without the floating and sinking being applied, the punch would be slower.
> 
> So when you put them together it goes like this: The diu sao pulls causing the energy and power to REEL from the left to the right, which causes the body to CAST forward. The forward momentum causes you to advance rapidly to the right seven star stance in which the right hand/arm cocks up causing the body to FLOAT and you finally  punch  pressing down the ribcage causing the punch to SINK into the opponent. The sinking action brings the weight of the entire body into play so that the punch cannot be easily blocked or brushed away. The sinking action tends
> to ride on the opponents blocking arm and still strike him. We (the students)  nicknamed this the SEVEN STAR RIDING PUNCH.
> 
> We call the diu sao action an INNER DIU SAO. When the diu sao is simply  grabbing up and out to the left (left hand in this case) it is called an OUTER DIU SAO. We use the inner diu sao in the seven star stance not the  outer diu sao. The outer diu sao is used in other stances (hill climbing,
> tiger riding etc.) but not in the seven star. WHY? Because if you pull out to the left, the body LEANS BACK and now you have to change direction and  reverse the momentum to step forward to the next seven star stance.
> 
> With the inner diu sao the body is driven forward instead of backward  an  blends with the next move (punch in this case). This makes for a smoother  transition from one move to the next. In this example, a backward action will break up the two movements causing a discernible pause. Once the opponents hand is caught with the diu sao, immediate retaliation is essential. Additionally, the reeling and casting action give the forms a smooth, wavy appearance that is punctuated by abrupt stops.


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## mantis

the 8 hard principles


> PEK CHOY (Chopping strike) - The pek choy is an oft used technique in the mantis style. Although the technique itself is straight forward, the situations applicable to it are numerous. The Pek Choy can be used as a block or an attack. The Pek Choy can also be done straight downward or at an angle. It is commonly called a "hammer fist" strike in other styles.
> 
> TUNG CHOY (Straight punch) - This is a simple reverse punch as found in many martial arts systems.
> 
> SEUNG CHUEN JEUNG (double penetrating palms) - This is a thrusting movement with both palms.
> 
> BAAT JANG - (domineering elbow) - using the elbow to force the opponent onto awkward positions.
> 
> GWON BONG MOON - (Crashing against a gate) - using the forearm to topple the opponent.
> 
> SEUNG BONG DA - (double crashing strike) - represented by the scissors action of the fist chopping down as the foot scoops under the opponent. Similar to the Sup Jee Toy.
> 
> SAAM HUEN CHOY (triple round punch) - three strikes in succession delivered with round actions.
> 
> JUM DA (jerk and strike)- unexpected grabbing of the opponents arm or arms with a quick jerk. Followed immediately with an attack.


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## mantis

the 12 soft principles


> 1. Test rigid and withdraw: After an attack is blocked, withdraw quickly to continue on. If the Defense is rigid, the withdrawing is used to launch a second attack. Too much stength in the arm slows down the next response. so instead of pressing on, you yield to the force by withdrawing the arm back halfway.
> 
> 2. Attacking the attack: To time your attack so as to either beat your opponent to the punch, or side step /evade while returning a strike. As the saying goes, "a master never blocks". The point being there is no defense contact at all. Just attacking with proper timing. (Best defense is a good offense).
> 
> 3. Hooking around a defense: If your attack is blocked, use the energy of the strike to continue a circular action hooking the opponents arm downward. The circle is continued around to attack.
> 
> 4: Searching through a revolving path to attack: This means that when your opponent uses circles to block, you have to time the revolving arms to attack the path that is left open between / through them. (Threading the eye of the needle).
> 
> 5. Hooking hand disolves force: Using the hooking hand action to catch and carry the force. Parrying the force away from you.
> 
> 6. In the Hook, Grapple, pluck sequence, you must attack swiftly after the pluck before the opponent can adjust to the break in timing that this technique causes.
> 
> 7. The free hand attacks: If one hand is grabbed, use the other to attack rather than try to release the grab. This attack is directed to the same side as the grabbed hand as it is unprotected due to the grabbing.
> 
> 8. Engaging the inner gate and enter with an attack: This means to use the diu sao (mantis hook hand) to open the opponents arms to get to the inside gate and attack once there.
> 
> 9. Pressing down defense with rising attack: this means to push down an attack and as the opponents arms resist and try to rise, follow the arms up and attack foward.
> 
> 10. Flicking outward to return an atack:  When the opponent strikes, catch the attack and flick it outwards to open up a gate for attack.
> 
> 11. Closing the hands after a separation: When ever you use both hands at the same time to open the opponents gates, bring them together quickly to attack.
> 
> 12. Wrapping hand dissolves a grab: When your wist is grabbed, use the wrapping hand to lock the wrist down and control  the opponent.


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## mantis

the Inner/Outer gate theory


> 1. High right  gate
> 2. High left gate
> 3. Low right gate
> 4. Low left gate
> 5. Leg gate
> 
> This is the typical large cross drawn in front of a standing body. The saying "five gates to the body you must feel" is a standard Siu Lum (Shaolin) expression. Your attacks / defenses cannot be made helter skelter. They must be planned and executed in a decided fashion. Your defense of each of the five gates should be thought out while training. The mantis system has more techniques than you will ever need. The dictionary has more words than you will ever need. However, we learn a vocabulary and certain words are used most of the time. Other words can be looked up when needed. Some people have a wider range of words than others.
> 
> So it is with Gung Fu. Just because YOU may not use many of the words in a dictionary, it does not mean that other people are not taking advantage of a large vocabulary. Nor does it mean that the dictionary or most of the words in it should be discarded.  In fact, in writing this goes double. You have to flavor your words to color your story. So you use many words that mean the same thing just to keep it interesting.
> 
> In Chinese Gung Fu you must pick out the techniques that you will use on a regular basis. Other techniques can be "looked up" by referring to your forms. Later, when you reach a certain stage, you will become one with your knowledge. Your techniques will become but an extension of yourself. If you think about all of the little things that you do everyday like turning on a light switch or tying your shoes there are hundreds of things that you do already without thinking about it. You have assimilated these things and they are a part of you.
> 
> Pick the techniques that you like best for each gate. Then, you will have an appropriate response when that gate is approached.  Your Sifu can guide you but it is you who makes the final choice. You will excel in the techniques that you like best. It is simple logic. All of the techniques in the style are effective. But you will not fully grasp this for quite some time. So start off with a few techniques that you like the best. In time, this will expand to encompass more than you ever thought possible.
> 
> The outside gate (toward the back) is always the best place to be when fighting. Keep your opponent at your inside gate and keep at his outside gate. This lessens the chance of your being hit and at the same time affords you the best opportunity for a successful strike. You will notice that when your left leg / left hand is forward, your opponent tends to be in the same position. If you shift to your right side the opponent will do the same. This is the natural tendency of keeping the outside gate towards the danger area.
> 
> Most people are more comfortable fighting with the left side forward. So you must strive to comfortable with the right side forward. Why? Because you will be fighting from the "south paw" side. This has always been considered a difficult side to fight against in western boxing. If you recall, I mentioned that the opponent feels safer and more guarded with the outer gate towards you. This means that he will now turn his right side to you (mostly). Thus you make the opponent fight your fight. You put the opponent on unfamiliar ground and yet you are in a strong position for combat.
> 
> This does not mean that you can not fight from the left side position. But, you probably can already do that. Also, if your opponent does NOT change sides, you will be fighting from the inner gates. In your training, you should be accustomed to this as well. Any way you look at it the opponent will be in a disadvantageous position. Later I will discuss the power advantages of the right side position.
> 
> Next, your basic defensive structure must be attuned to the five gates. This simply means that your hands must not venture beyond the gate parameters. For example, if a punch is coming at you but is delivered three feet to your left, there is no need to block it because it is too far away. It will never hit you. You only block outward as far as it takes to protect the gate. Do not chase ghosts. If you see a punch coming at a gate defend the gate then withdraw to a defensive position.


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## mantis

Finally the seven star stance


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## 7starmantis

Curious where you are getting your information from? For example, the 12 keywords and explinations?

7sm


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## mantis

7starmantis said:
			
		

> Curious where you are getting your information from? For example, the 12 keywords and explinations?
> 
> 7sm


Oops, i thought i forgot to state where i got my quotes from.  they are from Sifu Albright's website that you gave me the other day.  Some of the material is different from what i read from other 7 star PM from other lineages (still under lo kwan yu) but it's similar enough.  
I just wanted to paste all material in one thread for our future reference, especially that im always looking for those principles online.  i think he did a great job compiling this information. besides people who ask about mantis can see this now 

my reference is: http://www.lawclansman.com/theory.html


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## Mantismaster

Mantis

"Chao Chi Man disseminated the seven star system to his nephew, Chiu Leun, who already had a background in mantis style through his apprenticeship at a temple with the "Big Monk" and the "Little Monk." Chiu Leun spread the art to America when he relocated to New York's Chinatown. "

As an 8th Generation Closed-Door Disciple of Grandmaster Lee Kam Wing I have to make a comment on the quote above and make the record straight.  The late Grandmaster Chiu Leun my sibok, was not a nephew of Great Grandmaster Chiu Chi Man they just had the same last name, very common in China and for that matter the world.  

My Sifu had asked Great Grandmaster Chiu Chi Man if Chiu Leun was his nephew and he said clearly "NO" just same name.  Also Chiu Leun was born in New York he went back and forth to Hong Kong to train with Chui Chi Man.  Why is it that the Chiu Leun clan keeps saying that he was his nephew I have no idea but it's not true.  

Never the less we are not talking about his skills they speak for themselves (the man was a bad asss!) and I do respect that and honor that.  But I will not honor a lie that is being perpertrated by his clan.  Now that Chiu Leun is dead his people could do what ever they want with their decendants and make up stories if they want, but just remember that Chi Chi Man had several closed-door disciples and the one's that are still alive agree with my statement I have met several of them and I have confirmed this with them.  

The reason I mention this is because I know I'm going to get attacked on this subject and they're all going to say that this isn't true, so I ask you all are my Sibok's telling a lie? or just the simple truth?  I have nothing else to say on the article it is very well written an accurate, with just that little fabble.

Peace
Mantismaster


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## MahaKaal

Good posts, thanks for the information.


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## Mantisfist

Hello everyone, it's good to see that the Jiu Ji Man sect has opened with a dialogue. *This reply is for Mantis Master.* I am from the Jiu Leun sect also and my Sifu is one of the late Jiu Leun's senior disciples, Jeung Wah. What he told me was exactly what your Sifu has told you, the late Jiu Leun was not Jiu Ji Man's nephew. However, legends, myths and folklore are not absent in traditional Chinese martial arts. This sort of thing happens whenever there is a passing of a great martial arts master or a telling about origins of various styles. I wouldn't take it so personal. Not everyone in the Jiu Leun sect or for that matter, not everyone the entire Mantis style agrees with various legends told about masters or origins of techniques. *"For a believer no proof is necessary, but for a sceptic no proof is enough". *That sums up my statement. Thank you.


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## bajitanglang

kau is not unique to mantis 
It exists in Baji as well


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## Ninebird8

Thank you for this thread. Though I am not a mantis practitioner (Ying Jow Pai, Wudan Nine Birds, Southern White Crane, Yang Tai chi) I have know Raymond Fogg for a long time and his seniors John Cheng and Jeff Hughes. All are very good and very reputable practitioners of Tong Long and Seven Star. My Shaolin master is also Tong Long. In any event, what has been beneficial for me, from the chin na and locking comments, is the extensive similarities between the mantis bridging and locking techniques and those employed in traditional Ying Jow (Leung Shum and Ng Wei branch) and White Crane (Dr. Yang Jwing Ming and Jeff Bolt branch). The hooking, false door applications, etc. were all very fascinating and it was very gratifying to see Sifu Hughes illuminate these aspects of the mantis. The comments on chi sau and bridging were also interesting. One question for y'all though: In Seven Star as in Tong Long, is there still monkey footwork influence in moving and closing the gap? If not, what foot movement patterns are generally employed? How does the unique foot posture of Seven Star effect useful hooking and sweeping motions vs. other types of Mantis? Actually, what is the intent of that pointed-up posture in Seven Star?  Sorry, after 31 years still a bit nosy and curious about other cool styles though I have been a "bird" stylist all of my life. 

Thank you for your comments and allowing me to follow up with some questions. With respect and honor for a great style...Hsieh-Hsieh


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## Mantisfist

*Hello Ninebirds,*

I beleive you are asking about the 7-Star step (the stance w/the toe pointed up). This step/stance is not unique to Mantis alone, however its uses are many and specialized in 7-Star Praying Mantis. This step is a fast kick, throw, hook, attack, obsticle, and disruptor. Its attack include the lower leg, medial, posterior, lateral and plantorial parts of the heel, foot, and ankle. It is movements are swift and extremely inconspicuous if applied correctly towards it opponent, but very powerful and effective in combat. One should never under estimate the capabilities of the 7-Star step of 7-Star Praying Mantis kung fu or pay the painful disabilitating consequences. I hope that I have given you some clarity regarding its usage.


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## Tensei85

Old thread, 

But a lot of great info on the Mantis system!

Here's another link that has all this in Chinese...

http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/七星螳螂拳


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## Tensei85

Addendum to above.

&#21313;&#20108;&#23383;&#35363;- 12 Keywords &#21246;- Gou (Hook) &#25602;- Lou (Grapple) &#37319;- Cai (Pluck) &#25346;- Gua (Block upward) &#20993;&#36827;- Diao Jin (Cunning forward) &#31896;- Zhan (Stick) &#38281;- Bi (Dodge) &#40655;- Nian (Cling) &#25343;- Na (Control) &#38752;- Kao (Lean) &#20358;- Lai (Come) &#33150;&#25386;- Teng Nuo (Bounce) ...&#36148;- Tie (Tag) 

&#21313;&#20108;&#26580;- Shi Er Rou (12 Soft) &#35211;&#21083;&#32780;&#22232;&#25163;- Jian Gong Er Hui Shou &#20837;&#25163;&#32780;&#20599;&#25163;- Ru Shou Er Tou Shou &#25130;&#25163;&#32780;&#28378;&#25163;- Jie Shou Er Gun Shou &#26829;&#25163;&#32780;&#28431;&#25163;- Gun Shou Er Lou Shou &#30452;&#32479;&#32780;&#21246;&#25163;- Zhi Tong Er Gou Shou &#37319;&#25163;&#32780;&#20837;&#25163;- Cai Shou Er Ru Shou &#25602;&#25163;&#32780;&#36827;&#25163;- Lou Shou Er Jin Shou &#30933;&#25163;&#32780;&#20837;&#25163;- Ke Shou Er Ru Shou &#25778;&#25163;&#32780;&#20837;&#25163;- Pu Shou Er Ru Shou &#25361;&#25163;&#32780;&#20837;&#25163;- Tiao Shou Er Ru Shou &#24320;&#25163;&#32780;&#21472;&#25163;- Kai Shou Er Die Shou &#31896;&#25163;&#32780;&#30772;&#25163;- Nian Shou Er Po Shou 

&#20843;&#21083;- Ba Gang (8 Hard Methods), &#22826;&#23665;&#22739;&#38914;- Tai Shan Ya Ding, &#36814;&#38754;&#30452;&#32113;- Yin Ming Zhi Tong, &#24038;&#21491;&#38617;&#36939;- Zuo You Shuang Yun, &#25684;&#25419;&#20841;&#20998;- Shuai Luo Liangfen, &#30090;&#32920;&#30828;&#20379;- Die Zhou Ying Gong, &#38918;&#27493;&#38617;&#25484;- Shun Bu Shuang Zhang, &#30828;&#23849;&#20239;&#20302;- Ying Beng Fu Di, &#36028;&#38272;&#38752;&#22721;- Tie Men Kao Bi


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## Tamojin

*Awesome exchange! Thanks*


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