# Self Defense: Simple, Direct, and NoNonSense



## IMAA (Jan 24, 2005)

It never ceases to amaze me all the glory hunters who try to make martial arts and self defense this gradifying event.

 When those naysayers and you know who you are, say This could of happened, or that could of happend, or thats not relevent blah blah, "What If?"

 Well, the thing is when your training in a martial art system your spending years to earn a belt and then given hundreds of different techniques to use in a situation.  Then once you find yourself in that situaiton you either freeze up, are taken off of surprise, and or get your *** handed to you!

 General Self Defense should be geared towards the fewest techniques and the easiest techniques possible.  

 1st off as a student or even a teacher of self defense you should learn or explain the Law as it states what is  Assault and Battery!  When are you able to defend yourself.

a) Assault-  Is defined as unlawfully placing a person in fear of immediate bodily harm without the person's consent.
b) Battery- Is unlawfully touching a person; ie...striking, kicking, spitting, hitting, even attempting to provide emergency care without consent.

My point is, learn as few of technique that work as possible, gain control of your attackers head, by placing your hand on the face, eyes, confuse, disorient, and slam the attacker to the ground and RUN.  Do not play hero and stay around.  That is the job of the Police Officer to detain.  As a civillian you do not detain, hold or stick around to admire your work.  You do what you have to do to escape and go for help.

Self Defense is throwing no more then a dozen flurried strikes or less to get yourself out of the situation or to (if your legally alowed to carry) a firearm or spary/gas, ASP etc...

Just an overal basic view.


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## AC_Pilot (Jan 24, 2005)

Here's another problem: Techniques that work for big strong men do not tend to work for 100 lb females. In fact the same techniques that will work for a 300 lb all muscle groundfighter (There's on that attends the MMA place I kickbox at) will not work for a 125 lb skinny guy.This is why JKD trains the basic self defense techniques and theories, and then the individual, upon becoming advanced and enlightened as to what *will* and *won't* work for them in the real world against a variety of attackers, develops their own self defense strategies and techniques. Then they should drill in those techniques, seeking to adapt a few suitable additions as they become more experienced. Sport arts do not train a person to defend themselves, this is why black belts regularly get their clocks cleaned by untrained natural street fighters with experience.


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## 8253 (Jan 25, 2005)

Interesting topic.  In an MA (I do not consider sport arts as Martial Arts) (no offence to anyone) it should be understood that techniques are there as guides only.  It is very rare that a specific technique could be completed in a fight.  Nor would I take the time to try to complete one in that situation, due to the fact that you may have to think about it and in that extra half of a second you get whacked really hard it would be too late to worry about it anyways.
Just because it might be flashy and purty dont mean it will work.  Sometimes ugly will just have to do.


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## MA-Caver (Jan 25, 2005)

AC_Pilot said:
			
		

> Here's another problem: Techniques that work for big strong men do not tend to work for 100 lb females. In fact the same techniques that will work for a 300 lb all muscle groundfighter (There's on that attends the MMA place I kickbox at) will not work for a 125 lb skinny guy.This is why JKD trains the basic self defense techniques and theories, and then the individual, upon becoming advanced and enlightened as to what *will* and *won't* work for them in the real world against a variety of attackers, develops their own self defense strategies and techniques. Then they should drill in those techniques, seeking to adapt a few suitable additions as they become more experienced. Sport arts do not train a person to defend themselves, this is why black belts regularly get their clocks cleaned by untrained natural street fighters with experience.


If a 125 lb skinny guy is trying a technique that a big strong guy can do then he's choosing the wrong technique don't cha think? But then perhaps they're just doing it wrong? Many MA have techniques that are designed for _any_ size individual to take down _any_ size opponent. If that fails then the problem is either with the student not learning as they should or the instructor not teaching properly. 
Right, a person who advances in their chosen art will eventually learn what works and don't work for them. Being an expert in a few (personally) chosen techniques and well trained in several others and knowlegable in many more goes a long way in the aid of individual self-defense. That and the aforementioned adaptation to suit the situation/circumstances. 

If a person freezes despite their years of training then (IMO) it's their own fault for not preparing for the ineviatable. Not being aware of their surroundings, not paying attention to the person confronting them or about to confront them. Not learning to read people's body language knowing that violence (nor not) is imminent. Expecting the unexpected and all that. 
A person who includes brain-training (realistically) with their regular MA  training (which ever one it may be) will (or should    ) be able to face a confrontation with confidence. Bruce Lee advocated that the greatest weapon any Martial Artist has is their mind. Using that weapon first and foremost will go a long way. The human mind is amazing in it's ability to analyze countless bits of information received from the body's five senses. A good martial artist will train themselves to pick and choose the best course of action to suit.  :mp5: 

 :asian:


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## RRouuselot (Jan 25, 2005)

....


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## Corporal Hicks (Jan 25, 2005)

AC_Pilot said:
			
		

> Here's another problem: Techniques that work for big strong men do not tend to work for 100 lb females. In fact the same techniques that will work for a 300 lb all muscle groundfighter (There's on that attends the MMA place I kickbox at) will not work for a 125 lb skinny guy.This is why JKD trains the basic self defense techniques and theories, and then the individual, upon becoming advanced and enlightened as to what *will* and *won't* work for them in the real world against a variety of attackers, develops their own self defense strategies and techniques. Then they should drill in those techniques, seeking to adapt a few suitable additions as they become more experienced. Sport arts do not train a person to defend themselves, this is why black belts regularly get their clocks cleaned by untrained natural street fighters with experience.


DAMN, I really want to do JKD but I cannot drive yet so I cant get there. I'm actually fed up of all the crap that alot of MA throw at you. I know its my fault because I should have gone for a art that focuses mainly on the self defence and JKD style but when your 12 years old and you start you hardly know the difference between Karate and Tae Kwon Do. But now I wish I had been a JKDer at the start!

Regards


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## MJS (Jan 25, 2005)

Interesting topic!!!  I agree though...when your life is on the line, thats not the time to be doing a fancy tech. that has 10 moves to it, because chances are, you'll never get through the entire tech. anyway.  

AC brough up some very good points as well, and that is why its very important to always work with different people.  If you're working with someone bigger/smaller than you, chances are the tech. will have to slightly be modified to fit that person.

As for freezing up, I agree with MACaver...the person has not been training properly and needs to start re-evaluating how they are training.  Keeping your training alive and with resistance, as well as senario drills will certainly add to the training.

Mike


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## MJS (Jan 25, 2005)

Corporal Hicks said:
			
		

> DAMN, I really want to do JKD but I cannot drive yet so I cant get there. I'm actually fed up of all the crap that alot of MA throw at you. I know its my fault because I should have gone for a art that focuses mainly on the self defence and JKD style but when your 12 years old and you start you hardly know the difference between Karate and Tae Kwon Do. But now I wish I had been a JKDer at the start!
> 
> Regards



CH- don't get discouraged.  Its never too late to start training in the arts, and its never too late to make a change!!!  When I first started out, I certainly did not know what else was out there.  If JKD is something that peaks your interest, then go for it!!!! :ultracool  Once I had the chance to see what else was out there, start training with new people, etc. I found that I had made some huge improvements in my own personal training!!!

Mike


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## Corporal Hicks (Jan 26, 2005)

MJS said:
			
		

> CH- don't get discouraged. Its never too late to start training in the arts, and its never too late to make a change!!! When I first started out, I certainly did not know what else was out there. If JKD is something that peaks your interest, then go for it!!!! :ultracool Once I had the chance to see what else was out there, start training with new people, etc. I found that I had made some huge improvements in my own personal training!!!
> 
> Mike


You bet, trouble is nearest JKD class is quite far away. But when I can drive lol......I've already found out where it is, its just the waiting now! Cant wait!


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## Zujitsuka (Jan 26, 2005)

MJS said:
			
		

> Interesting topic!!!  I agree though...when your life is on the line, thats not the time to be doing a fancy tech. that has 10 moves to it, because chances are, you'll never get through the entire tech. anyway.
> 
> AC brough up some very good points as well, and that is why its very important to always work with different people.  If you're working with someone bigger/smaller than you, chances are the tech. will have to slightly be modified to fit that person.
> 
> ...



Well said Mike.  Keep it simple.  If you have too many movable parts, something is bound to get fouled up when you're under stress (adrenaline dump) and you have an actual opponent and not an uke.  Stick to the basics, repeat them ad nauseum, and they will serve you well.


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## loki09789 (Jan 26, 2005)

Zujitsuka said:
			
		

> Well said Mike. Keep it simple. If you have too many movable parts, something is bound to get fouled up when you're under stress (adrenaline dump) and you have an actual opponent and not an uke. Stick to the basics, repeat them ad nauseum, and they will serve you well.


The other thing to consider is the distinction between 'simple' and 'easy' vs. 'fine motor' and 'gross motor'...

I can teach someone to poke a guy in the eye and they can pull it off repeatedly in training but because it is a fine motor skill to 'stick the key in the key hole' basically, the probability that Mr. Murphy will pay a visit is high.  So, even keeping SD techniques 'simple' (as in few moves, uncomplicated by too many 'moving parts') has to be balanced with a solid understanding of fight or flight response.

Think about it.  After a good hard work out or a near car accident when you get the shakes, pouring a cup of coffee or tieing your shoelaces is a chore depending on how fatigued/stressed you are during the attempt.... how much harder will it be when it is a life or death situation?

Studies have shown that fine motor performance reduces in a plummeting slope once your Heart Rate gets above 145 beats per minute (based on test pool of adult males I think).

Teach 'big motion stuff' for meat and potatoes of SD.
Run conditioning and promote fitness to keep your students Heart Rate below 145 for as long as possible.
Teach fine motor skills as the 'oops' momentary adaptations that happen when you mess up - and you will 'mess up.'


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## Zujitsuka (Jan 26, 2005)

Excellent points Paul.

When that adrenaline is dumped into your system, or if you are fatigued or injured, your fine motor skills go down the drain.  Simple gross motor skill techniques are best for self defense.  It doesn't have to be pretty, it just has to work.

Guys like Tony Blauer, Richard Dimitri, and Peyton Quinn are strong advocates of this school of thought.


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## MJS (Jan 26, 2005)

loki09789 said:
			
		

> The other thing to consider is the distinction between 'simple' and 'easy' vs. 'fine motor' and 'gross motor'...
> 
> I can teach someone to poke a guy in the eye and they can pull it off repeatedly in training but because it is a fine motor skill to 'stick the key in the key hole' basically, the probability that Mr. Murphy will pay a visit is high.  So, even keeping SD techniques 'simple' (as in few moves, uncomplicated by too many 'moving parts') has to be balanced with a solid understanding of fight or flight response.
> 
> ...



Great post Paul!! :asian: 

Question for you:  Going with the simple/easy, fine/gross motor, and fight/flight theory, which I'll add is important to keep in mind, wouldn't you say that by doing scenario drills, you would be testing yourself to see what you can/can't do under that stress?  Zujitsuka mentioned a few guys, Peyton Quinn being one, who does adrenal-stress drills.  I think that this is a key part of training that is often neglected.  As you said, we can sit around all day and do pokes, kicks, strikes, etc. executing them w/o a problem..but, add in that fear element and the entire game changes.

Mike


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## AC_Pilot (Jan 26, 2005)

Corporal hicks: You have the desire to enter the JKD world, and _time_. Just be patient and when the time is right it will happen. In the meantime if you have the money, I highly recommend you purchase a few videos from these folks, to get your mind thinking about concepts and techniques. The tapes will torture you, because these guys are good and can actually execute JKD concepts in the real world.. it will be obvious when you watch them:

http://www.pfsvideo.com/

Specifically:
http://www.pfsvideo.com/paul_vunak.html

What can I say but that Paul Vunak gets you into the deeper _concepts_ of JKD. He has something valuable to tell you, conceptually in every tape, and techniques galore. Just keep in mind that you need to actually train at some point with genuine and skilled JKD instructors to be able to eventually use this stuff in the real world. Hands-on instruction will impart something indescribable to you, that tapes cannot. But they are excellent reference and will get you excited about the "art".

And:
http://www.pfsvideo.com/paul_vunak.html

Tom Cruse concentrates on extractions from Philipino and a few other arts but the base is JKD. If you want to learn real world weapons use, including improvised weapons theory and applications, he is the guy. If I had to be in a warfare trench with only one guy for backup, it would be a guy like Tom!

I have everything these guys produced, in my MA library.


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## loki09789 (Jan 27, 2005)

MJS said:
			
		

> Great post Paul!! :asian:
> 
> Question for you: Going with the simple/easy, fine/gross motor, and fight/flight theory, which I'll add is important to keep in mind, wouldn't you say that by doing scenario drills, you would be testing yourself to see what you can/can't do under that stress? Zujitsuka mentioned a few guys, Peyton Quinn being one, who does adrenal-stress drills. I think that this is a key part of training that is often neglected. As you said, we can sit around all day and do pokes, kicks, strikes, etc. executing them w/o a problem..but, add in that fear element and the entire game changes.
> 
> Mike


Situational/Scenario training is ESSENTIAL to knowing what you can make work under stress.  I stress what YOU can make work under stress.

A seasoned self defense focused martial artist, with lots of stress/application experience has the confidence and composure to 'see' stuff that a novice will not - also they will not get the spiking Heart rate/stress response as easily because of the 'been there/done that' effect of either simulation or real experience - this will help to keep the HR (Heart Rate) below 145, reduce the volume of adrenaline/hormonal dump and the chemically induced fear that can override the inexperiences.

At the very minimum, Scenario training gives students 'training experience' that can help them when/if the real thing happens.

Scenario training is many fold in educational use:

1.  Simulates realistic applications for students to improve stimulus/response technical and tactical proficiency.
2.  Allows instructors to assess what is and is not working consistently under pressure so they can re-evaluate systemic structure.
3.  Students, over time, will gain confidence because they will see how much better they are doing 'now' than they were doing 'before' instead of the inter student competition that can come with other drills.  The progress markers are all about the individual progress.
4.  Instead of the instructor preaching about what is important (technical/tactical/fitness...) to students, the situation reveals what needs to be focused on for individualized development.  ONe person might be very skilled, but have no tactical sense or fitness to sustain force/will/energy.  Another might have tons of stamina but might be flailing becuase of poor techinque....and so on.  This avoids the 'persecution' mentallity that can happen when an instructor is constantly pointing out flaws to students.  Instead of the discussion focus being about development, it can be percieved as 'picking on me' by a student that is feeling frustrated and disappointed in where they are in training.


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## MJS (Jan 27, 2005)

Paul-  As always, a very informative post! :asian: 

Thank you for the reply! :asian: 

Mike


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## still learning (Jan 27, 2005)

Hello, This simple and direct self defense may work?  A fast strike or backhand to the nose, most people will have a hard time fighting back if you succeed in this strike. (must set this up for a surprise hit).    Anyway one possible  self-defense to use.   .....Aloha


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## still learning (Jan 27, 2005)

Hello, This simple and direct self defense may work? A fast strike or backhand to the nose, most people will have a hard time fighting back if you succeed in this strike. (must set this up for a surprise hit). Anyway one possible self-defense to use. .....Aloha


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## loki09789 (Jan 28, 2005)

still learning said:
			
		

> Hello, This simple and direct self defense may work? A fast strike or backhand to the nose, most people will have a hard time fighting back if you succeed in this strike. (must set this up for a surprise hit). Anyway one possible self-defense to use. .....Aloha


As a 'vital target,' yes the nose is a good one, but I hesitate to rely on it as a 'stop hit' so much as a stunner that can create distraction/temporary dysfunction and short/long term affects such as breathing problems (which will make the bad guys HR spike up and above 145 beats per min. faster), swelling and tearing (which can affect accuracy and awareness).

Basically, for Simple/Direct and applicable self defense you MUST consider the legal use of force that your area uses.  

What is the threat and is it reasonbly safe to retreat?
If the answer is yes, do it.  get out of dodge.
If no, then you have to take in the threat you are facing to consider the level of force that is reasonable and justified.  If the guy is jabbing you in the chest with his finger in the middle of a department store and saying he is going to 'kick your ash' a nose smash is excessive.  BUT, if he swings at you and there is no reasonable way to retreat/avoid getting hit....block/counterstrike and stop when there is no more REASONABLE THREAT.

People talk about learning honor, integrity and character through martial arts.  In action, that means that you have to use force in a way that is expected of an upstanding citizen of your area - not a thug.  We all complain about how the bad guys have the advantage...but that 'advantage' is because they don't care about being upstanding citizens.  We have to if we don't want to become 'thugs' or, more importantly for legal sanity and domestic stability, we don't want to act in away that can be spun into 'thug action' in court when you have to defend your actions.

Train smart, train progressively to a level as close to reality that you can and study more than just the kick and punch stuff if you really are interested in Self defense.


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## MA-Caver (Jan 28, 2005)

loki09789 said:
			
		

> As a 'vital target,' yes the nose is a good one, but I hesitate to rely on it as a 'stop hit' so much as a stunner that can create distraction/temporary dysfunction and short/long term affects such as breathing problems (which will make the bad guys HR spike up and above 145 beats per min. faster), swelling and tearing (which can affect accuracy and awareness).
> 
> Basically, for Simple/Direct and applicable self defense you MUST consider the legal use of force that your area uses.
> 
> ...



Yes, hitting a vital area IME, usually stops a fight before it gets any further and worse. Some guys are just pussies. All big and tough and "ready-to-get-it-on! Then, *BAP* right in the nose and the blood starts flowing and they're off and running  ... in the opposite direction.  Some guys are seemingly wimps the "_don't hit me! don't hit me!_" screamers. Then, *BAP* right in the nose and the blood starts flowing and they're off and running ... tearing you to pieces. Problem is it's sometimes very very difficult to distinguish which of those guys   are which. This is where full commitment training also comes into play.



			
				loki09789 said:
			
		

> People talk about learning honor, integrity and character through martial arts.  In action, that means that you have to use force in a way that is expected of an upstanding citizen of your area - not a thug.  We all complain about how the bad guys have the advantage...but that 'advantage' is because they don't care about being upstanding citizens.  We have to if we don't want to become 'thugs' or, more importantly for legal sanity and domestic stability, we don't want to act in away that can be spun into 'thug action' in court when you have to defend your actions.



Yup yup yup, so true. Why are they called "the bad guys?" When getting into it with them, in whatever scenario you find yourself in, one's attitude should be the same as theirs... "don't give a f---" and use whatever it takes to win and make things go your way.  My integrity isn't going to be impunged by walking up to a mugger beating on a hapless individual and bashing their head in with a beer bottle I found a couple of feet behind him.  
One of the most valuable things that my oldest brother taught me in regards to fighting/combat/self-defense... "...there's no such thing as a fair fight." 
Beer bottles, two by fours, monkey steals the peach... whatever! Get into it on the streets win by any means necessary. Your skills as a martial artist makes it happen just that much faster (and in some situations...neater and prettier ), if anything your MA skills are designed to keep you from getting hurt. 
After the fight, after the guy is laying on the ground, busted nose or arm or unconcious, THEN you tell the police your ...err, spin of the story.  Unless the guy is dead they're not going to ponder at the unusual indentation at the back of his skull (from the bottle or two by four you used at the onset),  "you saw someone being attacked or you were attacked and you stepped in to help or defended yourself."  The police, who are probably just as tired as anyone else of these morons bullying, mugging people are (hopefully) going to be on your side. If you don't want LEO's around then do the job quickly and totally (so they don't get up two minutes later) and take off. Be somewhere else. 
Point is getting to and from one place to another in one piece, unhurt, alive, whole, sane... whatever. To be able to go home and go to bed at night feeling good about yourself.  Nothing happened that day?... great! Something happened that day? ... are you okay? ... great!


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