# The Cross Draw from concealment



## thardey (Jul 17, 2007)

Are there any fans of the Cross draw here? Are there any opponents?

I'm still working out the best place to carry IWB, and so far the 4:00 carry is the most comfortable and convenient for walking around. But I can't get to it if I'm driving, and in my sub-culture, driving is the most likely time I'll need it. (At least, traveling - you know road rage, mugging while stopped at a light, etc.)

I can get to it much easier if carry it cross-draw, but I didn't know if there were any serious drawbacks I haven't considered.


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## Ceicei (Jul 17, 2007)

I like the crossdraw with a bit of cant.  I have found that to be very comfortable for me.  Basically, how one wishes to carry has more to do with preference, body shape, type of holster, location where to carry (such as in the car, for example) and yes, clothing.

- Ceicei


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## Grenadier (Jul 17, 2007)

Most of the time, I use either my Mitch Rosen Upper Limit Express, worn strong side, or my Desantis Mini Scabbard, also strong side.  The only time I ever use cross draw is when I'm in a car for an extended period of time, in which case I use my Mitch Rosen CCR (Counter Carjacking Rig):

http://www.mitchrosen.com/product_line/holsters/belt_holsters/body_belt_holsters.html

Well worth the money spent, and it certainly beats having that gun digging into your side while sitting.


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## arnisandyz (Jul 17, 2007)

Grenadier said:


> Most of the time, I use either my Mitch Rosen Upper Limit Express, worn strong side, or my Desantis Mini Scabbard, also strong side.



+1 Strongside behind the hip a majority of the time. Only time I would consider a cross draw would be in special situations (driving or sitting alot). On longer trips I place gun in the center console of the car.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Jul 17, 2007)

Cross draw is more of a last resort for me based on clothing considerations.  Otherwise I am all for drawing from your strong side.  You simply have a better opportunity to draw without risking your drawing hand or center mass.  It is also probably (based on the person) quicker and more efficent.  That being said there are those people who are the exceptions that can probably make it work.  I just opt for efficiency and simple execution.


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## thardey (Jul 17, 2007)

Thanks, guys

That's kind of what I was thinking - the strong side carry does make a lot of sense for standing situations, but I do spend most of my "dangerous time" sitting in a car. For that reason, I usually don't carry, but keep my gun in an easily accessible holster between the seat and the center console. But there are some friends of mine who wouldn't be comfortable knowing I carried a gun, and there isn't a "sneaky" way to switch the gun from my hip to the seat, if I did feel the need to carry.


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## KenpoTex (Jul 17, 2007)

Have you considered "appendix" carry (strongside at about 1-2)?

It's fast, good economy of motion, and very covert.  Also good for retention since the gun is on your centerline.  When I carry a BUG/secondary this is where I carry.  Only drawback is that it's not workable for some people due to weapon size or your body type.  Might be worth a try though...


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## thardey (Jul 18, 2007)

kenpotex said:


> Have you considered "appendix" carry (strongside at about 1-2)?
> 
> It's fast, good economy of motion, and very covert.  Also good for retention since the gun is on your centerline.  When I carry a BUG/secondary this is where I carry.  Only drawback is that it's not workable for some people due to weapon size or your body type.  Might be worth a try though...



I've used that for my tiny little .22lr revolver I got from my grandfather (ex-cop from Texas - it was his BUG.) And it works well.

Most of the time, though I carry a full sized Glock .45. "The Boys" aren't too comfortable with that. 

Isn't your appendix located at about 5:00? Why is it called "appendix carry" in the front? I always thought that was called "Mexican-style".


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## Monadnock (Jul 18, 2007)

thardey said:


> I've used that for my tiny little .22lr revolver I got from my grandfather (ex-cop from Texas - it was his BUG.) And it works well.
> 
> Most of the time, though I carry a full sized Glock .45. "The Boys" aren't too comfortable with that.
> 
> Isn't your appendix located at about 5:00? Why is it called "appendix carry" in the front? I always thought that was called "Mexican-style".


 
I've got the G21 and the only spot I can carry it is IWB at 4:00. It's not the most comfortable, since it is a full size that let's me know it is "there" but I can sit at work fine as well as drive. But I see your point about having access while in the car. But anything worn there while wearing a seatbelt is going to be tricky.

It works with a sweatshirt since I am not that big "a-round", just tall. I thought about going cross-draw but you have to be wearing a vest or jacket don't you?

I think I'll be picking up a G30 or similar size soon anyways...


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## thardey (Jul 18, 2007)

Monadnock said:


> I've got the G21 and the only spot I can carry it is IWB at 4:00. It's not the most comfortable, since it is a full size that let's me know it is "there" but I can sit at work fine as well as drive. But I see your point about having access while in the car. But anything worn there while wearing a seatbelt is going to be tricky.
> 
> It works with a sweatshirt since I am not that big "a-round", just tall. I thought about going cross-draw but you have to be wearing a vest or jacket don't you?
> 
> I think I'll be picking up a G30 or similar size soon anyways...



I tried it the other day on a road trip, and I was able to be fairly comfortable for 4 hours out of a 5 hour trip. (It shifted in the last hour, and dug into my hip.) Normally for a road trip it's under the seat, but it was sort of a "torture test". I set the cant for straight up and down, and carried it about 9:30-10:00 under my t-shirt. The seatbelt rode on my regular beltline, so it didn't get in the way at all, and I could get out at the rest stations and such without having to shift anything around - it actually hid pretty well.

But you're right, the 4:00 is definitely the most comfortable all the way around. The first day I carried all day was at 4:00 under a Hawaiian shirt. I even rode a horse that way, and it stayed put well. At the end of the day I asked my wife if she knew I had it (the best test for concealment) and she had no idea I was armed. Not bad for a Glock 21!

I ended up getting a Uncle Mike's IWB, and a Paddle holster. The nice thing about them is that they're cheap, and all of the kydex holsters are the same, with interchangeable attachments. So between the two, (basically left and right) and a couple extra $$ in extra attachments, I have a huge option of carries. Now I'm just playing around with all of them, until I find a good fit for my lifestyle.

In the summertime, with the lighter clothing, I've found the biggest problem with the 21 is the weight, but I figure that since a Glock 36 carried 6 rounds, for the times when the weight bothers me, I load my 21 with 6+1, and it lightens the whole package considerably. I carry a magazine with 6 rounds, and one with 13 rounds in my truck, so it's easy to switch between them.


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## Brian King (Jul 18, 2007)

Disclaimer* I no longer carry much at all anymore.

When I did carry I was working as a driver so I have faced this issue. My solution was to carry IWB strong side over my back jeans pocket. When I was driving in areas or situations that I thought I might need to access my weapon, I would. I would access it and tuck it under my left leg. When I needed to put it away I would do so also while seated in the car (before getting out of the car) I preferred it there cause if needed I always knew where it was as I could feel it. Sitting on the seat or in the consol or under the sit it can move Murphy like.
I do like the cross draw; in fact it is one of my favorite forms of carryfor the other guy. The body read while they draw is very easy to see and understand. If close enough to a person checking the cross draw action is nature and relatively easy to accomplish. I prefer to sweep up a target while shooting and cross draw usually sweeps across a target. Depending on the holster and security, when standing face to face a holstered cross draw weapon is butt forward and an easy grab for the person facing a cross draw armed opponent and the weapon once grabbed this way is already lined up and ready to roll. 

Brian King


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## Monadnock (Jul 18, 2007)

thardey said:


> I tried it the other day on a road trip, and I was able to be fairly comfortable for 4 hours out of a 5 hour trip. (It shifted in the last hour, and dug into my hip.) Normally for a road trip it's under the seat, but it was sort of a "torture test". I set the cant for straight up and down, and carried it about 9:30-10:00 under my t-shirt. The seatbelt rode on my regular beltline, so it didn't get in the way at all, and I could get out at the rest stations and such without having to shift anything around - it actually hid pretty well.
> 
> But you're right, the 4:00 is definitely the most comfortable all the way around. The first day I carried all day was at 4:00 under a Hawaiian shirt. I even rode a horse that way, and it stayed put well. At the end of the day I asked my wife if she knew I had it (the best test for concealment) and she had no idea I was armed. Not bad for a Glock 21!
> 
> ...


 
My IWB is a CTAC kydex. It's fairly comfortable if I have a Tshirt between it and my skin and wear something else over it all. Not the best option for summer of course.

Be safe,
Mike


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## thardey (Jul 18, 2007)

Brian said:


> Disclaimer* I no longer carry much at all anymore.
> 
> When I did carry I was working as a driver so I have faced this issue. My solution was to carry IWB strong side over my back jeans pocket. When I was driving in areas or situations that I thought I might need to access my weapon, I would. I would access it and tuck it under my left leg. When I needed to put it away I would do so also while seated in the car (before getting out of the car) I preferred it there cause if needed I always knew where it was as I could feel it. Sitting on the seat or in the consol or under the sit it can move Murphy like.
> I do like the cross draw; in fact it is one of my favorite forms of carryfor the other guy. The body read while they draw is very easy to see and understand. If close enough to a person checking the cross draw action is nature and relatively easy to accomplish. I prefer to sweep up a target while shooting and cross draw usually sweeps across a target. Depending on the holster and security, when standing face to face a holstered cross draw weapon is butt forward and an easy grab for the person facing a cross draw armed opponent and the weapon once grabbed this way is already lined up and ready to roll.
> ...



Thank you - that's exactly the kind of stuff I wanted to find out.


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## thardey (Jul 18, 2007)

Monadnock said:


> My IWB is a CTAC kydex. It's fairly comfortable if I have a Tshirt between it and my skin and wear something else over it all. Not the best option for summer of course.
> 
> Be safe,
> Mike



Thanks, I'm actually thinking about gluing a piece of suede or something on the body side of the holster, since I usually wear it against my skin under a shirt.


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## Andy Moynihan (Aug 14, 2007)

I'm thinking about going to a cross draw because of body type/clothing issues( I.E. I have a bit of a gut, IWB holsters hurt me while seated, I want a full size sidearm( accuracy and recoil absorption due to slightly more weight/longer barrel), and I'm not prepared to buy a whole new wardrobe of pants with extra waistband).

Thinking of going with a shoulder rig, or one of the holster T shirts advertised( anyone have any experience with them?) I can still wear my T shirts and untucked lounge shirt/Hawaiian shirt/Civilianated BDU blouse as I normally wear anyway, and sit/drive without killing myself with my IWB, risking more exposure with my paddle holster, or creating a joke inducing bulge in the case of my SmartCarry or PagerPal( you see, I've tried many things before deciding this)..

My waist/legs won't be tied up for lack of running/jumping/maneuvering/kicking/dodging room, my sidearm's still hidden( and therefore still not vulnerable to a snatch attempt, being hidden) even if the wind blows my shirt up/I get jostled or fall by accident or by violence,or my waistband is exposed for whatever reason,  and if for some reason my insides tell me it's gonna be draw time, it's a simple enough matter to perform an innocuous fold-arms-across-chest movement to kill the lag time between hand and sidearm.

So it CAN be done, but have a reason why you want it (like I do).


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## Blindside (Aug 14, 2007)

thardey said:


> Isn't your appendix located at about 5:00? Why is it called "appendix carry" in the front? I always thought that was called "Mexican-style".


 
Are you thinking of your kidneys?

The appendix is an offshoot of your intestine, and when you get an appendectomy you get a scar a couple of inches to the right of and just down below your belly button.  So the appendix carry is at 2:00 (hence Comp-tac's appendix carry holster being called a two o'clock.)

http://www.comp-tac.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=28&products_id=89

I've always considered "Mexican" to be stuffing it in your wastband, but specifically without a holster.  Uh, I'm not going to do that with a glock. 

Lamont


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## thardey (Aug 15, 2007)

You're right, I had the wrong organ. (Obviously I still have my appendix).


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## AzQkr (Nov 9, 2007)

Crossdraw affords an opportuntiy for one to protect the weapon by placing either of their hands on the butt of the gun. Crossdraw is more comfortable seated, easier to access while bent over, getting in and out of vehicles as well as placing the gun in a position where you can access the weapon with either hand at any time.

Though one might be vulnerable to a gun grab from the front if you aren't paying attention and allowing others to be that close in proximity directly in front of you, it also offers advantages that outweigh this possibility.

The strongside carry is vulnerable to being grabbed from someone at the gun side and from someone who comes up from behind you. Handgun retention with strongside in these two situations is a nightmare if it happens.

Grab attempts with crossdraw allows one the opportunity to pummel their adversary with either or both arms/forearms/hands while they make the attempt.

Dress accordingly, and you can walk around with your hand on the butt of the gun with no one the wiser all day. Can't do that very well with strongside carry.

The fastest draw from any carry position is the hand on the gun to start. That makes crossdraw pretty damned desireable when one needs to get a gun into action.

Crossdraw does not mean you have to sweep your body or anyone elses to get the muzzle on the adversary. If you have experience on accessing the crossdraw and practice to a level of proficiency, the gun muzzle is oriented quickly on the threat and can be pushed out toward that threat without "sweeping" it onto that threat.

Brownie


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## Cruentus (Nov 9, 2007)

When I carry 2 pistols, my primary goes on my primary side, and my secondary goes on my support side in a cross draw position. I can draw my secondary weapon with my support hand or primary hand. I cannot emphasize enough the importance of practicing drawing and shooting with both right and left hands. Most possible retention problems in CQB that the cross draw presents  is negated by  being comfortable drawing and shooting with either hand...

C.


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