# Please, can any explain what is msunderstood ?



## connection1 (Apr 27, 2015)

I saw this written on Internet and was just curious. What is misunderstood ? There could be many answers to this.
Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks


* Modern Wing Chun expert Bill Graves comes to Southern California for this highly comprehensive, one-day only seminar.

Quietly about his research and development for over 28 years, Bill Graves is dedicated to developing the most effective self-defense system the world has ever known. He is now bringing about a Modern Wing Chun Revolution.

Wing Chun, in itself, is a martial art and self-defense system misunderstood from day one. Misunderstood by traditionalists. Misunderstood by progressives. Misunderstood by its resistance to change itself into a sport for the masses. Misunderstood by many who learn it. Misunderstood by many who teach it. And misunderstood by it's most famous practitioner, Bruce Lee.

Modern Wing Chun, however, as Bill Graves' teaches it, is an art without limitations. Much different than what people perceive the art of Wing Chun to be.

But Bill Graves is different. His interpretation of Wing Chun is different. His teacher, Karl Godwin, is different. His modern, Western-influenced approach to Wing Chun is different.

He has developed a picture-perfect example of what Wing Chun should be for the modern world. And now, the demand for this modern approach to Wing Chun is growing at an unprecedented level.


----------



## Vajramusti (Apr 27, 2015)

connection1 said:


> I saw this written on Internet and was just curious. What is misunderstood ? There could be many answers to this.
> Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Vajramusti (Apr 27, 2015)

Graves's sifu- Godwin probably was with Kenneth Chung at one time. But this sounds like a sales pitch.


----------



## Callen (Apr 27, 2015)

Vajramusti said:


> But this sounds like a sales pitch.



Welcome to the forum.

This type of discussion could go in many directions and can easily become endless. There are a lot of things that could be considered "misunderstood" about Wing Chun. Unfortunately, I'm also feeling the heavy tone of a sales pitch in your quote. Is your question centered around getting a better understanding of Wing Chun for yourself, or are you trying to find the validity to Sifu Bill Graves' statements?


----------



## connection1 (Apr 27, 2015)

I assure you there is absolutely no hidden agenda here.I truly would like to know for my own information if  everyone has missed something very important.There might be a very simple answer to this. I would really like the information


----------



## Mephisto (Apr 27, 2015)

Callen said:


> Welcome to the forum.
> 
> This type of discussion could go in many directions and can easily become endless. There are a lot of things that could be considered "misunderstood" about Wing Chun. Unfortunately, I'm also feeling the heavy tone of a sales pitch in your quote. Is your question centered around getting a better understanding of Wing Chun for yourself, or are you trying to find the validity to Sifu Bill Graves' statements?


It does sounds like a sales pitch, one I've see all too many times. The fact that this guy seems to say everyone else in his system is doing it wrong is a very bold statement.

Is there any video available from the group/instructor mentioned? Are you able to share a link so we can see the context in which this was written? I doubt this guy has anything new. Hard work and sparring are how you get good at applying your craft. There are no shortcuts or secrets to gaining proficiency.


----------



## connection1 (Apr 27, 2015)

The statement about misunderstanding from day one etc.. aroused my curiosity.
I thought maybe there was a good explanation for this statement that would be
informative


----------



## Callen (Apr 27, 2015)

connection1 said:


> I assure you there is absolutely no hidden agenda here.I truly would like to know for my own information if  everyone has missed something very important.There might be a very simple answer to this. I would really like the information



Apologies, if my input seemed pretentious. It was not intentional.

Honestly, there's no real way to know what "misunderstandings" Sifu Bill Graves is referring to but it has a lineage debate feel to it. In my opinion Wing Chun practitioners should focus on uniting the greater community, not separating it with statements of superiority. In the context that you have presented, it doesn't seem that you're missing anything important in regards to certain misunderstandings of Wing Chun.


----------



## Tony Dismukes (Apr 27, 2015)

It seems pretty straightforward. Everybody but Bill Graves misunderstands the art and is doing it wrong. None of the practitioners here can explain what is misunderstood, because they are not Bill Graves and therefore they also are doing it wrong. Only Bill Graves truly understands the art, and for the low, low price of whatever he is charging for the seminar you too can understand Wing Chun correctly.


----------



## drop bear (Apr 27, 2015)

Tony Dismukes said:


> It seems pretty straightforward. Everybody but Bill Graves misunderstands the art and is doing it wrong. None of the practitioners here can explain what is misunderstood, because they are not Bill Graves and therefore they also are doing it wrong. Only Bill Graves truly understands the art, and for the low, low price of whatever he is charging for the seminar you too can understand Wing Chun correctly.



Without checking I am going to tip he also boxes and wrestles.

 Just a vibe.


----------



## drop bear (Apr 27, 2015)

drop bear said:


> Without checking I am going to tip he also boxes and wrestles.
> 
> Just a vibe.



Nup. Look like I was wrong.

Anyway some form with differences?


----------



## drop bear (Apr 27, 2015)

Tony Dismukes said:


> It seems pretty straightforward. Everybody but Bill Graves misunderstands the art and is doing it wrong. None of the practitioners here can explain what is misunderstood, because they are not Bill Graves and therefore they also are doing it wrong. Only Bill Graves truly understands the art, and for the low, low price of whatever he is charging for the seminar you too can understand Wing Chun correctly.



I went to the website and you are off base. He is a humble man who just happens to be the best chunner in the business.

It says so.


----------



## Tony Dismukes (Apr 27, 2015)

drop bear said:


> I went to the website and you are off base. He is a humble man who just happens to be the best chunner in the business.
> 
> It says so.


Well a humble guy like that wouldn't lie. It must be true.


----------



## K-man (Apr 27, 2015)

Unfortunately he is not alone. We have this in my area ...

_"Pure Aikido, Australia’s premier Aikido dojo. All aspects of Aikido are taught here. Receive one on one instruction from Australia’s number 1 instructor in a fun and friendly environment."
_
One of our guys went along to check it out last week and the verdict was that it was very poor Aikido. The guy is definitely not one of the best instructors and who, apart from himself, gave himself the ranking of number 1?  The problem is, on the internet anyone can claim whatever they want and others will believe them.

Another guy is Russell Stutely in the UK who's material carries the statement 'Europe's number 1 pressure point expert'. Well again, who says so? Russell has some excellent material available but that doesn't make him number one at anything except self promotion.

Now Bill Graves may have a sound background, who knows? He is creating a point of difference and anyone with skills in marketing will understand the value of that. How much honesty is in his marketing is another question.


----------



## Steve (Apr 27, 2015)

Marketing and business strategy are the unfortunate side effect of having to make a living.  Reminds me of the scene from Elf when Will Farrell goes into a little diner in New York and congratulates them for having the "best coffee in town" based on a sign they hung in their window.

As K-man says, there is sometimes a gap between the claims and the reality.   But, it's all part of making a living.  Who would want to train with a guy who alleges to be the 3rd best Aikido Instructor in Australia?


----------



## connection1 (Apr 27, 2015)

so is the answer a secret ? I was really hoping to get a new and interesting perspective
on wing chun. Marketing did not cross my mind. I am still hoping for some insight into why it was misunderstood from its inception as the quote stated.


----------



## Mephisto (Apr 27, 2015)

connection1 said:


> so is the answer a secret ? I was really hoping to get a new and interesting perspective
> on wing chun. Marketing did not cross my mind. I am still hoping for some insight into why it was misunderstood from its inception as the quote stated.


At this point you're just trolling right? There's noting wrong with questioning bs, but do you really believe this guy?


----------



## geezer (Apr 27, 2015)

connection1 said:


> so is the answer a secret ? I was really hoping to get a new and interesting perspective
> on wing chun. *Marketing did not cross my mind*. I am still hoping for some insight into why it was misunderstood from its inception as the quote stated.


 
Marketing did not cross your mind?!?   Read this:

thesystemwingchun.com

You can't be blind to the irony there!


----------



## drop bear (Apr 27, 2015)

Was that form any different by the way?

And does anybody care?

(ps I am surrounded by butterflies at the moment. Kind of cool)


----------



## Callen (Apr 27, 2015)

connection1 said:


> so is the answer a secret ? I was really hoping to get a new and interesting perspective
> on wing chun. Marketing did not cross my mind. I am still hoping for some insight into why it was misunderstood from its inception as the quote stated.



You should consider the fact that it might not have been misunderstood from it's inception as the quote stated.


----------



## drop bear (Apr 27, 2015)




----------



## K-man (Apr 27, 2015)

Mmm. Blue Tigers?


----------



## connection1 (Apr 27, 2015)

Thank you..nice answer from one who practices a thinking persons art


----------



## drop bear (Apr 27, 2015)

K-man said:


> Mmm. Blue Tigers?



Not sure.


----------



## KPM (Apr 27, 2015)

Total BS.  Plain and simple.   At one point many years ago Karl Godwin wrote an article claiming that Wing Chun was derived from Western Bare-knuckle boxing when merchant marines traveled to the southern Chinese coast and staged fights with the locals.  Around that same time he claimed to have met an old man that had practiced a martial arts version of western bare-knuckle boxing in an unbroken lineage and called it "Omni Pugilism."   Godwin claimed to have combined this with his Wing Chun, and justified it with the idea that Wing Chun was derived from bare knuckle boxing to begin with!  Now he often calls what he does "long range Wing Chun."  I haven't heard the "Omni Pugilism" slant for a long time.  So everyone has misunderstood Wing Chun and ONLY Karl Godwin got it right!  ;-0





connection1 said:


> I saw this written on Internet and was just curious. What is misunderstood ? There could be many answers to this.
> Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Kwan Sau (Apr 27, 2015)

KPM said:


> Total BS.  Plain and simple.



Yup...Keith pretty much nailed it.


----------



## K-man (Apr 27, 2015)

FWIW.

Black Belt - Google Books


----------



## KPM (Apr 28, 2015)

K-man said:


> FWIW.
> 
> Black Belt - Google Books


 
Yep!  That's the article!  Thanks K-man!


----------



## Pat M (Apr 28, 2015)

connection1 said:


> I saw this written on Internet and was just curious. What is misunderstood ? There could be many answers to this.
> Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks
> 
> 
> ...



Hey connection1  welcome.

There are no secrets in Wing Chun, only details. Just like everyone else Bill does not have any secrets, he sounds like a dedicated exponent of the Martial Arts.

However, this sounds like a car commercial and only one dealer sells it.  Amazing....... It's called the BGWC

"research and development for over 28 years"
"developing the most effective self-defense system the world has ever known"
"a Modern Wing Chun Revolution"
I will not list the many misunderstandings .....
"Bill Graves' teaches it"  "an art without limitations"
"But Bill Graves is different"
"His interpretation of Wing Chun is different"
"His modern, Western-influenced approach to Wing Chun is different"
"a picture-perfect example of what Wing Chun should be"
"demand for this modern approach to Wing Chun is growing at an unprecedented level"

I know nothing of Bill, though I wonder why he does not give what he does a name and say it's origin's are the Wing Chun system.
As is Jeet Kune Do.


----------



## connection1 (Apr 29, 2015)

Thank you for responding.


----------



## connection1 (May 2, 2015)

I still wonder what his different take on wing chun is or could be and what is the misunderstanding that everyone is under ( from day one )?


----------



## Marnetmar (May 2, 2015)

connection1 said:


> I still wonder what his different take on wing chun is or could be and what is the misunderstanding that everyone is under ( from day one )?



You must find the answer within, young grasshopper.


----------



## Transk53 (May 2, 2015)

connection1 said:


> I still wonder what his different take on wing chun is or could be and what is the misunderstanding that everyone is under ( from day one )?



I would take a guess that the author misunderstands that he is proffering a personal opinion on what Wing Chun actually is. Fair enough, but needs to take a step back and think about blind dedication I would think. Welcome to the forum BTW.


----------



## Kung Fu Wang (May 2, 2015)

connection1 said:


> Modern Wing Chun, however, as Bill Graves' teaches it, is an art without limitations. Much different than what people perceive the art of Wing Chun to be.


This should apply to all MA systems. If you can't add in more value into your system, you are just a "copy machine" and serve no contribution to your MA system. No matter how good quality a "copy machine" can be, the quality will get worse and worse.


----------



## Kwan Sau (May 2, 2015)

connection1 said:


> I assure you there is absolutely no hidden agenda here.I truly would like to know for my own information if  everyone has missed something very important.There might be *a very simple answer* to this. I would really like the information



The very simple answer, as you say, is that he (Graves) is perhaps on a quest to distinguish and spotlight himself, his WC, his Sifu, in an attempt to be perceived as having the "secret sauce" that the rest of us nitwits apparently can't comprehend.


----------



## Kwan Sau (May 2, 2015)

Graves' teacher I think.
Is it just me, or is this guy trying to impersonate Yip Man with his looks?
Anyhooooo....if this guy and his MYJ form/drill is an example of perfection (which the rest of us apparently have misunderstood from day 1), I'm headed in the opposite direction.
I'm sure godwin and graves are stellar performing masters of the art (says so on each of their websites)...but their version of WC is not my cup of Earl Grey...  so carry on wayward chunners or join the graves revolution and upgrade your wc to the next level!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## yak sao (May 2, 2015)

[QUOTE
Graves' teacher I think.
Is it just me, or is this guy trying to impersonate Yip Man with his looks?[/QUOTE


Nah.....Yip Man seemed to always wear a white t shirt


----------



## Marnetmar (May 2, 2015)

Can I ask everyone to please not let this Bill Graves guy represent the entire Leung Sheung branch in your eyes, please.


----------



## Kwan Sau (May 3, 2015)

Nah.....Yip Man seemed to always wear a white t shirt[/QUOTE]

Oh, sorry... how's this? Is this better?


----------



## Kwan Sau (May 3, 2015)

Marnetmar said:


> Can I ask everyone to please not let this Bill Graves guy represent the entire Leung Sheung branch in your eyes, please.



Agreed. And I've no beef with ANY of these dudes or their version of wing chun. For all I know, they really could be the baddest dudes on the planet.
I've only seen some random clips of this Godwin guy...never seen any clips of Graves...or Leung Sheung line for that matter...


----------



## Marnetmar (May 3, 2015)

Kwan Sau said:


> Agreed. And I've no beef with ANY of these dudes or their version of wing chun. For all I know, they really could be the baddest dudes on the planet.
> I've only seen some random clips of this Godwin guy...never seen any clips of Graves...*or Leung Sheung line for that matter*...



We do tend to hide in the shadows a bit


----------

