# Side kick flexibility



## 0425 (Dec 2, 2008)

Hey guys,

Quick question, I've got terrible flexibility when it comes to side kicks and/or hook kicks. My hips don't want to let me kick high!

When we do snap/axe/cresent kicks I can kick head height most times (I'm 6'), but the flexibility required for side kicks just isn't there. 

Any advice for exercises, stretches etc?

I know it'll come with time, but I'd like to help it along and do what I can outside of our DoJang as well.

Thank you in advance.

Kevin


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## granfire (Dec 2, 2008)

Well, you need to stretch the inner thigh - sideways. many ways to accomplish that.


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## seasoned (Dec 2, 2008)

0425 said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Quick question, I've got terrible flexibility when it comes to side kicks and/or hook kicks. My hips don't want to let me kick high!
> 
> ...


 
Put a bar up in your basement. Make it about 4-5 feet long and hung from the ceiling or rafters by a piece of rope at either end. Put some cushioning on the bar at first, so when you swing your leg up onto the bar, with inside or outside crescent kick it wont land hard. From that position, you can stretch front and side, the thing is to start low so you can maintain a good front kick with form and do the same with your side kick also. At intervals raise the bar up until you get the height you want. If balance is a problem at first hang another rope for stability out from the bar where your hands will be. Dancers are some of the most flexible people I know, and they use a bar in all of their training. Good luck.


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## bluekey88 (Dec 2, 2008)

You might want to also build up your lower ody strength through squats and deadlifts as well as more specific excercises to target the hips.  Part of kicking high is flexibility, but an even larger piece of the puzzle is the muscular strength to get the foot that high.

Google Thomas Kurz and Stretching Scientifically for more specifics on this.

Peace,
Erik


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## Manny (Dec 2, 2008)

0425 said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Quick question, I've got terrible flexibility when it comes to side kicks and/or hook kicks. My hips don't want to let me kick high!
> 
> ...


 
Kevin you are not alone jjejejeje, yes, even I'm a black belt returning from a long period of doing nothing and having the same height than you for me doing side kicks and round house kicks to head level is almost impossible, however my side kicks and roundhouse kick to the mid section are good. Don't worry so much flexibility comes with hard training.

Manny


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## 0425 (Dec 2, 2008)

granfire said:


> Well, you need to stretch the inner thigh - sideways. many ways to accomplish that.



That makes sense.

For what it's worth, when stretching my inner thighs, (this morning I tried standing beside my kitchen cabinets, with my leg up beside me, ankle on the counter, as if I was performing a side kick) I feel a good strain (not in a bad way, just a good solid stretching way) near the inside of my knee. (Well below the green circle on the picture below.)





It looks as though that is where that long muscle connects to my knee.
That is where I feel it most, and I'd bet that is what needs work.

Funny thing is, I don't feel it strain in that same spot (near inner knee) when I do the 'butterfly' stretch. (see picture below - no it isn't me!)




That said, I'm nowhere near getting my knees to touch the floor, but I perform this stretch with my heels quite close to my groin. 

Any ideas?

Thanks again guys.


Kevin


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## MasterWright (Dec 2, 2008)

There have been some really good ideas posted in order to help you with your flexibility.

I would just like to add that when teaching side and hooking kicks try using the addage.... "The higher the knee the higher the kick".

Some people find it helpful to bring their body down a bit when performing these kicks until they become more flexible. 

Good luck!


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## exile (Dec 2, 2008)

I started a thread related to this problem a little over a year ago&#8212;it may give you some additional ideas on top of the very good suggestions which have already been made. 

My experience is, the key to side kicks is hip flexor strength, and that requires rather specialized kinds of resistance training. Take a look at the discussion in that thread and see if anything there is helpful. You might scan some of the old, archived threads&#8212;this is a topic that comes up repeatedly and there have been a number of helpful discussions in the past that probably contain something you can use.


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## 0425 (Dec 2, 2008)

exile said:


> I started a thread related to this problem a little over a year agoit may give you some additional ideas on top of the very good suggestions which have already been made.
> 
> My experience is, the key to side kicks is hip flexor strength, and that requires rather specialized kinds of resistance training. Take a look at the discussion in that thread and see if anything there is helpful. You might scan some of the old, archived threadsthis is a topic that comes up repeatedly and there have been a number of helpful discussion in the past that probably contain something you can use.




Thank you!


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## SA_BJJ (Dec 2, 2008)

exile said:


> I started a thread related to this problem a little over a year agoit may give you some additional ideas on top of the very good suggestions which have already been made.
> 
> My experience is, the key to side kicks is hip flexor strength, and that requires rather specialized kinds of resistance training. Take a look at the discussion in that thread and see if anything there is helpful. You might scan some of the old, archived threadsthis is a topic that comes up repeatedly and there have been a number of helpful discussion in the past that probably contain something you can use.


 Absolutely right, it is a combo of flexibility and hip strength.  Hip flexor as well as oblique abdominal strength.


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## level7 (Dec 4, 2008)

I have this problem too. 

When I started, it was very painful for me to kick sideways. Front and back kicks were fine. 

At first I though I had issues with my hips, somewhat painful during the arc of a side kick. So I started hitting the weights and stretching. 

If you belong to a gym, there are two leg machines that work the inner and outer thighs. Both are excellent. The one machines stretches your legs out into a 'V'. I basically use that machine for stretching out. I use light weights to work through the "pain". It seems to be working. I started at a 5-6, now I'm at a 7-8 in terms of how wide your legs are when you start. 
The other machine.. I try and crank on the weights. This machine works the outside of your thighs. You can really feel it working the sides of your hips as well as some of your butt muscles. You'll need these muscles to support your legs when you are working on your kicking form. The longer you can hold your legs up the more you'll be able to fine tune your kicking form and it will also provide power when the time comes.

My side kicks are weak even when executed correctly. The powerful kicks are the back kicks so I favor and hone them.


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## exile (Dec 4, 2008)

level7 said:


> If you belong to a gym, there are two leg machines that work the inner and outer thighs. Both are excellent....
> My side kicks are weak even when executed correctly.



But look at the two statements here, l7... there's a real disconnection between them! The excellence of the machines doesn't translate into powerful side kicks. 

I routinely do very short range leg presses with close to half a ton of iron on the bars (along with the weight of the trolley). I sometimes do heavy squats and a few other power exercises for my quads and inner-thigh muscles&#8212;and have for years. But I didn't develop passable side kicks, or the strength and balance to side kick hard with the rear leg and then freeze in the extended position for up to half a minute until I started working on the hip flexors, the psoas/illiacus complex which is the key to the leg raising motion. No matter how powerful your quads are, _development of the quads does not contribute to hip flexor strength._ The muscle groups gym exercises target are not the muscles you need to develop to perform effective side kicks.

You need to work on exercises which directly target the illiopsoas complex. An ankle-weighted chambering exercise will be far, far more effective in contributing to muscle strength in that group than the most intense quad workouts. As long as you're going to put in the sincere and sustained effort you describe, you might as well channel all that pain and intensity into workouts that aim at the crucial muscle group, eh?


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## level7 (Dec 4, 2008)

exile said:


> But look at the two statements here, l7... there's a real disconnection between them! The excellence of the machines doesn't translate into powerful side kicks.
> 
> I routinely do very short range leg presses with close to half a ton of iron on the bars (along with the weight of the trolley). I sometimes do heavy squats and a few other power exercises for my quads and inner-thigh musclesand have for years. But I didn't develop passable side kicks, or the strength and balance to side kick hard with the rear leg and then freeze in the extended position for up to half a minute until I started working on the hip flexors, the psoas/illiacus complex which is the key to the leg raising motion. No matter how powerful your quads are, _development of the quads does not contribute to hip flexor strength._ The muscle groups gym exercises target are not the muscles you need to develop to perform effective side kicks.
> 
> You need to work on exercises which directly target the illiopsoas complex. An ankle-weighted chambering exercise will be far, far more effective in contributing to muscle strength in that group than the most intense quad workouts. As long as you're going to put in the sincere and sustained effort you describe, you might as well channel all that pain and intensity into workouts that aim at the crucial muscle group, eh?


 
I should have stated compared to my back kicks.


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## level7 (Dec 4, 2008)

level7 said:


> I should have stated "... compared to my back kicks."


 
With all the weight training, do you find yourself getting slower in the delivery of your kicks? There is a point when to much bulk starts to interfere with delivery and flexibility.


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## SA_BJJ (Dec 4, 2008)

I think we are getting away from the original question here though.  The original question was about not being flexible enough to kick high.  Not being strong enough and flexible enought to kick high and hold it.  Flexibility is just as important if not more important to high kicks than strength is.  If all you want to do is kick high, then stretch.  If all you want to do is kick hard then build the hip flexor muscles.  But if you want both high and hard then you need to do both.

There are a ton of stretches on youtube in order to open the hips and increase flexiblity.  

Probably the best exercise to strengthen your hips is to stand against a wall, raise your leg to the chamber position, extend hold it out there for 10-30 secs at first then return to chamber then set it down.  Repeat this 10-15 times per leg everyday.  You will notice a huge improvement in your kicks.  

It is not an overnight process, dont get discouraged and quit...just stay at it and it will happen.


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## 0425 (Dec 4, 2008)

Thanks for the great input guys. I'll work on the hips, and I'm considering buying "Stretching Scientifically" by Thomas Kurtz.

Thanks again!


Kevin


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## exile (Dec 4, 2008)

level7 said:


> With all the weight training, do you find yourself getting slower in the delivery of your kicks? There is a point when to much bulk starts to interfere with delivery and flexibility.



No, on the contrary&#8212;strength training any muscle group increases the motor neuron groups that activate the muscles to fire with increasing synchronicity, which means they can react _faster_ the stronger you get. There are a number of sports physiology studies I've read which suggest that this increased synchronicity is the first phase of any strength gain from resistance training, and persists throughout the training routine. There is, in contrast, no evidence I'm aware of that larger muscles are slower, or less flexible. Some of the most powerfully built athletes, professional basketball players, are also amongst the quickest and most limber there are. And if you look at the musculature of sprinters and gymnasts, you'll have plenty of reason to question this particular bit of what I think is just gym folklore.

People often bring professional bodybuilders into this discussion, but that's a big mistake: pro builders, who in almost all current and recent cases use anabolic steroids and growth hormone to reach the size and proportions they do, have massive muscles as a result but do not have accompanying connective tissue growth, because tendonds, ligaments and the other controlling fibres that actually allow you to move the muscles do not themselves grow even when the muscles get huge. So pro builders tend to have surreal physiques, but not the connective tissue backup for them. That's very different from developing considerable strength and muscle volume from completely natural training, where everything will stay in proportion. If your strength/size gains come from resistance training pure and simple, you will get faster, not slower.



SA_BJJ said:


> I think we are getting away from the original question here though.  The original question was about not being flexible enough to kick high.  Not being strong enough and flexible enought to kick high and hold it.



But strength is critically important if you want to be able to assume certain physical positions in which to carry out the necessary stretching in the first place. It's not enough to stretch; you need to stretch in the positions that you're hoping to be able to assume. So the flexibility to kick high, for example, involves stretching in a configuration where you're able to _reach_ a high point with your foot, and work the hip muscles in that position, just as you do for any other dynamic stretching exercise, a la Kurz's approach. 

If you can develop the strength to kick to a middle height and hold it there, you'll be strong enough to get your let up to that point, and then raise it a little higher, and do the kicks in slow motion that you ultimately want to do rapidly. And when you can do that, you can go a little higher. But if you can't ever get enough flexor strength to reach the target position in which you want to do the stretch, then you'll never be able to maintain the configuration in which the flexor muscles get to stretch out. That's why I think that strength, balance and flexibility all have to be developed in tandem, when it's a matter of improving your kicking.


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