# Sand or water



## jgreen

I just bought a BOB (body opponent bag), and I must say that I'm a bit disappointed. It seems too easy to knock down. I filled it with water, but I want to know if any thinks that sand is worth the time to go and get. Will it make it more stable? Is it heavier?

Any other suggestions for stabilizing it are greatly appriciated.


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## SteelShadow

Yea sand makes a difrence in my oppion it works better.
The water has a tendency to slosh even if it does alittle it can throw the balance off.Sand on the other dosnt move around it works best as a stabalizer..Just my oppion tho


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## jfarnsworth

I would personally use sand.


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## GouRonin

I think the real problem with many people and heavy bags is that they don't know how to use them properly. They just wail away as hard on them as they can. Of course it's going to fall over. If you're using it right then you should be able to control it and NOT have it fall over. Martial arts people in general don't use heavy bags properly. I suggest you go down to your local boxing gym and ask for some help. There is more to it than just hitting it.


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## Rainman

> _Originally posted by jgreen _
> *I just bought a BOB (body opponent bag), and I must say that I'm a bit disappointed. It seems too easy to knock down. I filled it with water, but I want to know if any thinks that sand is worth the time to go and get. Will it make it more stable? Is it heavier?
> 
> Any other suggestions for stabilizing it are greatly appriciated. *



Water- bob is an accuracy tool.  You may also want to think about when a strike becomes a push.


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## jgreen

I've been hitting heavy bags for more than 10 years. I do have an idea of how they work. 

I am trying to use it as an accuracy tool. For punches, it works fine, except for the incessant sloshing noise (which, I guess is reason enough to try sand). The problem is kicks. I've seen and used water stand up bags before, and it took alot to get them over. 

One side kick, and BOB falls down and goes boom. I do not know how the others were anchored.


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## GouRonin

> _Originally posted by jgreen _
> *I've been hitting heavy bags for more than 10 years. I do have an idea of how they work.*



Apparently not if it's still falling over. There's 10 years of yer life you must have been paying attention to something else.
 



> _Originally posted by jgreen _
> *For punches, it works fine, except for the incessant sloshing noise (which, I guess is reason enough to try sand).*



The sloshing noise might be an indicator you have not filled it up enough. I have a warrior Wing Chun dummy that has water in it that I have to change to sand sometime soon. Same reason. Overall, sand seems to work better as it moves less easy.


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## jgreen

No one ever accused me of paying too much attention.....but I never actually used a BOB. Slam man, other water based bags, but never a BOB. I had seen them on TV and such, but I figured I'd try it out. 


The instructions (yes, I broke down and read them!!!!) said to fill it up to a certain line. It is right where the stem meets the base. My only guess is that this would prevent it from bursting when / if it froze in the case that you have it outside - it's in my garage. I guess it's difficult to freeze sand


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## GouRonin

> _Originally posted by jgreen _
> *The instructions (yes, I broke down and read them!!!!) said to fill it up to a certain line. It is right where the stem meets the base. My only guess is that this would prevent it from bursting when / if it froze in the case that you have it outside - it's in my garage. I guess it's difficult to freeze sand  *



Mine is in my garage too. The water expands in them but as long as you leave some space it should be ok. I'm switching to sand soon too for the summer and some harder work. In any case think of it this way.

A truck carrying a load of water in it's tank cannot stop and not expect the water to not slosh around in the tank. This is one of the problems with stand alone bags. The water often carries it past a point where you want it to go meaning you have less control over the bag which can be good if you're still training specifically for reaction. However, if you're blasting like most people do it serves no purpose. Sand is denser and has more weight I believe with less movement and might help you get it under control as you work.


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## lvwhitebir

The water fill is easier to knock down with basic punching, but in all, the base of the BOB is narrow and will always fall over no matter what you fill it with, especially with side kicks.  I own one of the bags too, and it's filled with sand.  It's easy to knock over.  I apply more surface contact, pulling the strike to avoid knocking it down.  It bobs around a lot, but I can keep it from tipping.

I also own some of the 6' standing bags which have a wider base and can take a stronger kick, although a full side kick will still knock it over.  The only thing that won't would be a hanging bag that's anchored top and bottom.  You can wail on that with no problem, if that's what you want to do.

WhiteBirch


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## GouRonin

If you're knocking it over you're missing 50% at least of the use of a heavy bag or a stand alone bag. You just don't buy it to beat it as hard as you can.


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## Rob_Broad

Century has a new base for their bags it is wider and does not go as high therefore it will have a lower center of gravity.  The bags are very easy to knock over, I have seen a child climb on one and pull it over.  The old bases are too narrow and unstaible


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## JD_Nelson

Gou???

Would you mind giving some insight to the purpose of the punching bag.  I am curious as to what you are referring to as the other 50%.


Humbly,

JD_Nelson


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## GouRonin

Heavy bags are more of an accuracy tool when you have them as stand alone bags. It's when you use them as hanging bags that they become more valuable. The average heavy bag is meant to take punishment but to swing and it's that swing that allows you to use your footwork to move yourself around the bag while punching at a realistic pace. The upper portion of the body learns to keep in time with the footwork and use proper body mechanics as it strikes a moving target. The upper body also should be using it's punches to _"set up"_ other actions along with the footwork to get there. That's just a bit of what the bag can be used for.

Too many people just wail away at the bag with no serious intent as to what they are doing with each strike. This always struck me funny with Kenpo guys in particular because they are taught that each strike is a set up for another strike, but when you put a kenpoist on the heavy bag they seem to toss that concept out the window.

Heavy bags also come in different shapes, sizes, and weights for different use. There are also different excercises that can be done on them. People never wonder why sometimes a coach will hold the bag when a boxer is punching rather than just watch.

There is more to the art of boxing that many people know. Don't dismiss it because it's useful.


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## JD_Nelson

Thank you Gou,


I have not really ever worked out on any type of heavy bag.  I have taken a few shots at them here and there but lately i have just used them to test my wrist alignment.  

First time I ever hit a heavy bag I had no training in any type of art, so i gave the bag a whack i decided i would never hit one again.  But now, after a year of training, I can at least walk up to a heavy bag and give it a good hit without my hand or wrist hurting for a half hour.  

Thanks for some of the finer points of bag work. 

JD


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## John123john

Try to check here some thing about stabilization and etc.
In my case, i just put him in my room, and make something like fasteners.


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## JR 137

John123john said:


> Try to check here some thing about stabilization and etc.
> In my case, i just put him in my room, and make something like fasteners.


Hopefully he figured it out.  He’s only had 15 years to come up with a solution, so maybe not.


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## skribs

JR 137 said:


> Hopefully he figured it out.  He’s only had 15 years to come up with a solution, so maybe not.



I've played board games with a few people that would still be deciding.


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## Saheim

Sand! You'll be much happier.... until you have to empty it for moving.


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## Mitlov

jgreen said:


> No one ever accused me of paying too much attention.....but I never actually used a BOB. Slam man, other water based bags, but never a BOB. I had seen them on TV and such, but I figured I'd try it out.
> 
> 
> The instructions (yes, I broke down and read them!!!!) said to fill it up to a certain line. It is right where the stem meets the base. My only guess is that this would prevent it from bursting when / if it froze in the case that you have it outside - it's in my garage. I guess it's difficult to freeze sand



Not to be a science nerd, but sand IS frozen unless you're at blast furnace temperatures.


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## Tez3

Mitlov said:


> Not to be a science nerd, but sand IS frozen unless you're at blast furnace temperatures.




Sand is frozen? How does that work then when I'm lying on it in the South of France?


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## skribs

Tez3 said:


> Sand is frozen? How does that work then when I'm lying on it in the South of France?



Sand is a solid, which means it is technically the frozen form of what the material would be if in liquid or vapor form.


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## Mitlov

Tez3 said:


> Sand is frozen? How does that work then when I'm lying on it in the South of France?



The melting point of quartz is 1650 C (3000 F), so it's frozen at South-of-France temperatures, even though water isn't also frozen at South-of-France temperatures.


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## Tez3

skribs said:


> Sand is a solid, which means it is technically the frozen form of what the material would be if in liquid or vapor form.


That's informative, thank you.



Mitlov said:


> The melting point of quartz is 1650 C (3000 F), so it's frozen at South-of-France temperatures, even though water isn't also frozen at South-of-France temperatures.



That is not understandable by lay people, sorry.


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## Mitlov

Tez3 said:


> That is not understandable by lay people, sorry.



Which is why the post started with "not to be a science nerd, but..."


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## Tez3

Mitlov said:


> Which is why the post started with "not to be a science nerd, but..."




but it didn't have anything to do with using water or sand as the OP asked decades ago................... He's probably worn the BOB out by now whatever he used.


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## pdg

Tez3 said:


> but it didn't have anything to do with using water or sand as the OP asked decades ago................... He's probably worn the BOB out by now whatever he used.



It did however have something to do with a previous message, about leaving space when filling with water to allow for expansion if/when it freezes (just in case you didn't know, water expands as it freezes, not as it melts from ice - during the freeze is when pipes burst...)

You don't need to leave space with sand, because it's already frozen.


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## Tez3

pdg said:


> It did however have something to do with a previous message, about leaving space when filling with water to allow for expansion if/when it freezes (just in case you didn't know, water expands as it freezes, not as it melts from ice - during the freeze is when pipes burst...)
> 
> You don't need to leave space with sand, because it's already frozen.




Well that's simple don't have it in a place where it's going to freeze....  if you are buying something to train with you don't leave it to get frozen unless you want an excuse not to train.


I imagine the OP has long forgotten he's posted on here, and the BOB is long gone as well.


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## pdg

Tez3 said:


> Well that's simple don't have it in a place where it's going to freeze....  if you are buying something to train with you don't leave it to get frozen unless you want an excuse not to train.



One of my heavy bags lives outside all year round - a few weeks ago I was barefoot in the snow.

Wasn't even that bad after the first few minutes 

No excuses innit 



Tez3 said:


> I imagine the OP has long forgotten he's posted on here, and the BOB is long gone as well.



Probably, but y'know, chat.


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## Tez3

pdg said:


> One of my heavy bags lives outside all year round - a few weeks ago I was barefoot in the snow.




Have you seen what frostbitten toes look like? It's amazingly difficult to walk without toes.
Btw I learnt quite early what frozen water does to pipes etc, you didn't imagine I lived to my sixties without knowing that did you?


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## pdg

Tez3 said:


> Have you seen what frostbitten toes look like? It's amazingly difficult to walk without toes.



I don't think that half an hour at a time, doing a blood flow encouraging activity, in 6" of snow, in southern England, 20 yards from a warm house is really putting me at much risk of frostbite.



Tez3 said:


> Btw I learnt quite early what frozen water does to pipes etc, you didn't imagine I lived to my sixties without knowing that did you?



From my experience, the very vast majority of people (of any age) firmly believe that frozen pipes get burst when the ice in them thaws and not when they freeze - because things contract as they get cold and expand as they warm up.


Of course, some people believe there are two moons orbiting the earth too - because how else could people in Australia see the moon when we can see it from England?


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## Martial D

skribs said:


> Sand is a solid, which means it is technically the frozen form of what the material would be if in liquid or vapor form.


So the obvious solution is to fill your Bob with molten lava. Not only will it stabilize the thing, it will toughen up your knuckles like nothing else!(provided they don't melt off first)


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## Tez3

pdg said:


> From my experience, the very vast majority of people (of any age) firmly believe that frozen pipes get burst when the ice in them thaws and not when they freeze - because things contract as they get cold and expand as they warm up.




Er no, perhaps the people you know!



pdg said:


> I don't think that half an hour at a time, doing a blood flow encouraging activity, in 6" of snow, in southern England, 20 yards from a warm house is really putting me at much risk of frostbite.




Certainly you can get the first stages of frostbite in those conditions have you never had that feeling of pins and needles in your hands and toes when you've got cold and warmed up? That's called frost nip.


You have a very low opinion of people's intelligence and knowledge, it's quite disheartening how little you think of people. I know of no one who thinks there are two moons not even children think that.


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## jobo

Tez3 said:


> Well that's simple don't have it in a place where it's going to freeze....  if you are buying something to train with you don't leave it to get frozen unless you want an excuse not to train.
> 
> 
> I imagine the OP has long forgotten he's posted on here, and the BOB is long gone as well.


Or Put some anTi freeze in it. The guy probably walking around with a walking frame now, dreaming of when he could stand on one leg and kick his Bob over, wOnder if it's up for sale?


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## JR 137

jobo said:


> Or Put some anTi freeze in it. The guy probably walking around with a walking frame now, dreaming of when he could stand on one leg and kick his Bob over, wOnder if it's up for sale?


Shoot him a PM.  You never know.  I see tons of unused exercise equipment on Craigslist.


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