# New Forum Idea



## Bobby135 (Jan 17, 2008)

Hi Everyone,

This one goes out to Bob and the other almighty's that run the Universe that is Martial Talk.  I wanted to get some thoughts on developing a new forum for people such as bouncers, security staff etc.  I bet there are a fair amount of people on this site that work second jobs of that nature.  Thoughts anyone????

Thanks
Bobby


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## kailat (Jan 17, 2008)

Sounds like a winner.. I work in Law Enforcement and Security for my 2nd job.   I'd love to swap stories, control stuff etc..


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## JBrainard (Jan 17, 2008)

I don't have a job that is anything like that, but I think it is a great idea for a forum.


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## exile (Jan 17, 2008)

Cool ideawish I'd thought of it! 

As Geoff Thompson, experienced karateka, dojo instructor, and legendary `hard man' bouncer/club bouncer/security manager makes clear in his book _The Pavement Arena_, there is absolutely nothing like the world of professional unarmed no-rules combat to throw the technical content of the TMAs into sharp relief. GT emphasizes in his books, repeatedly, that the TMAs are peerless skill sets for the kind of professionals the proposed forum would focus on, but that these skills have to be both focused and trained for just those purposes to be fully effective. We have a number of people on the board who've worked in this field and it would be great to have a place where their particular kind of insight was given the full focus of attention.


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## Guardian (Jan 17, 2008)

*Isn't General Self-Defense the same thing, we have that here.  You have a General Martial Arts and then this section, what good would another forum do except split up the posts to too many different forums, thus negating the conversations that take place all around.*

*That's just my view on it.*


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## Brian R. VanCise (Jan 17, 2008)

I am all for a more specialized forum and feel that we have more than enough people in that area to warrant one.


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## Drac (Jan 17, 2008)

I worked as a bouncer for many years and as a security officer too...Currently in law enforcement...


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## Jade Tigress (Jan 17, 2008)

I'll bring the suggestion to the Steering Board.


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## LawDog (Jan 17, 2008)

Sounds like a good idea to me.


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## diamondbar1971 (Jan 17, 2008)

It could be a good thing or it could not. It depends on the postings..No one wants to hear about a bar fight or brawl and who did or didn't get their *** kicked and all of this
type of crap...Someone who is in the protection business and has some real bona-fide
type of celebs or high profile type of clients might be of interest, but not the everyday knock down drag out brawl...


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## exile (Jan 17, 2008)

diamondbar1971 said:


> It could be a good thing or it could not. It depends on the postings..No one wants to hear about a bar fight or brawl and who did or didn't get their *** kicked and all of this
> type of crap...Someone who is in the protection business and has some real bona-fide
> type of celebs or high profile type of clients might be of interest, but not the everyday knock down drag out brawl...



Agreed. But given the nature of the board, I think you're mostly going to hear from people like Drac, Rich, and other accomplished MAists who's worked the floor of enough clubs and had enough run-ins with hostile, aggressive jerks to have worked out just what enounters with this sort of character typically involve (from an SD point of view). And that kind of information could be very useful, because those are the very same jerks that people who _aren't _in the protection/security line of work are probably going to be looking at when things start going sideways.


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## Xue Sheng (Jan 17, 2008)

I spent some time in security, would be an LEO today if it wasn't for the Shaolin long fist staff form related broken ankle the week before the agility.

Sounds good to me.


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## Carol (Jan 17, 2008)

Outstanding idea!!  Thanks for suggesting it Bobby!  :asian:


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## Bob Hubbard (Jan 17, 2008)

Interesting idea. 
So, a section for the experienced to discuss event security and crowd safety?


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## still learning (Jan 17, 2008)

Hello,  Every year our Kempo have a Seminar for all the Instructors.  many sub-classs on kinds of self-defense stuffs.  All topics0- relating to martial arts.

One of the Instructors has a personal security business and did sub-class on how to do security for high profile people.  The planning, the techniques to use, how to stand next to them, how to handle crowds, what to do if a situtions come up...back up plans/exits and so on.  VERY interesting and a great learning experience.

Simple thing as where to stand ?..to protect the person...if you are carrying a gun? ..this is important.  How far or near and so on...off course each instructor/schools will have there own thoughts on this too...it will be nice to hear from others on a SPECIALIZE SITE/FORUMS!

Go for it!   is this election year? ...I vote OK...yes...am over 18 years old, most time normal, no criminal records, non- drinker, non-smoker, like to fish, earth traveler,tax payer,  part-time martial artist...Aloha

NOTE: full time martial artist votes will have "full votes"...are you a "full"


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## Tames D (Jan 17, 2008)

still learning said:


> Hello, Every year our Kempo have a Seminar for all the Instructors. many sub-classs on kinds of self-defense stuffs. All topics0- relating to martial arts.
> 
> One of the Instructors has a personal security business and did sub-class on how to do security for high profile people. The planning, the techniques to use, how to stand next to them, how to handle crowds, what to do if a situtions come up...back up plans/exits and so on. VERY interesting and a great learning experience.
> 
> ...


 
I'm confused. I thought you were a Judo Player.


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## KempoGuy06 (Jan 18, 2008)

I like the idea, it would cool to talk about. Being a bounce is something Id like to do.

B


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## Drac (Jan 18, 2008)

KempoGuy06 said:


> I like the idea, it would cool to talk about. Being a bounce is something Id like to do.
> 
> B


 

Trust us it gets old REAL FAST..


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## SFC JeffJ (Jan 18, 2008)

Drac said:


> Trust us it gets old REAL FAST..


I did it for a week and had enough.


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## Drac (Jan 18, 2008)

SFC JeffJ said:


> I did it for a week and had enough.


 
1980-1983 and then again from 1984 to 1987..Being the only sober person at a big party is no fun..


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## KempoGuy06 (Jan 18, 2008)

Drac said:


> Trust us it gets old REAL FAST..


Is it good money? That is enough for me, Ive has some pretty bad jobs

B


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## KempoGuy06 (Jan 18, 2008)

Drac said:


> 1980-1983 and then again from 1984 to 1987..Being the only sober person at a big party is no fun..


Thats before i was born, 

B


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## terryl965 (Jan 18, 2008)

Drac said:


> Trust us it gets old REAL FAST..


 
Yes it does but for a young guy he should enjoy himself at it.


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## terryl965 (Jan 18, 2008)

KempoGuy06 said:


> Is it good money? That is enough for me, Ive has some pretty bad jobs
> 
> B


 
Back in the eighties you made OK money I have no clue what they pay now, the last time I was a bouncer was 1988 so times have changed I heard.


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## JBrainard (Jan 18, 2008)

KempoGuy06 said:


> Thats before i was born,
> 
> B


 
Ouch! Make the guy feel old, why don't you?


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## Drac (Jan 18, 2008)

KempoGuy06 said:


> Thats before i was born,
> 
> B


 
Young whipper snapper


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## Tez3 (Jan 18, 2008)

Over here the pay is about $20-30 an hour. You have to do a course now and be licensed to be a door person.I'ts starting to be be seen as a 'proper' job. I'm doing my door licence purely for our MMA shows so won't get paid sadly!


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## KempoGuy06 (Jan 18, 2008)

JBrainard said:


> Ouch! Make the guy feel old, why don't you?



Nah just like to give people ****



Drac said:


> Young whipper snapper



LOL! I just like to be a smart *** sometimes

B


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## Drac (Jan 18, 2008)

KempoGuy06 said:


> Is it good money? That is enough for me, Ive has some pretty bad jobs
> 
> B


 
It depends on the club..One place was 25 bucks a night and all you could drink and the chance to get your teeth kick out if your techniques were sloppy..The coporate owned club payed about 6.50 an hour and no drinking on the job was allowed...The employees were allowed a drink at midnight to take the edge off..


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## KempoGuy06 (Jan 18, 2008)

Drac said:


> It depends on the club..One place was 25 bucks a night and all you could drink and the chance to get your teeth kick out if your techniques were sloppy..The coporate owned club payed about 6.50 an hour and no drinking on the job was allowed...The employees were allowed a drink at midnight to take the edge off..


that doesnt sound to good. 

B


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## Xue Sheng (Jan 18, 2008)

Drac said:


> Trust us it gets old REAL FAST..


 
I was a bouncer for 1 whole day, as a favor to a friend... that was enough. 

As one guy I knew who spent a lot of time as a bouncer said (and I will clean this up a bit) 

1 Part Alcohol + 1 Part Human = instant idiot.

Also human just add alcohol.... instant idiot

although he was not saying idiot


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## Drac (Jan 18, 2008)

KempoGuy06 said:


> that doesnt sound to good.
> 
> B


 
Remember this was the late 70's and early 80's and that was considered good money..Some nights you stood around and did nothing except drink and oogle the ladies...


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## Bobby135 (Jan 18, 2008)

I want to thank everyone for all their resposnes.  I have been a Doorman, Bouncer, Security Person for almost 3 years at a busy bar\nightclub in Boston.  I believe that a forum like this would be for advice and support for people who work in the crowd control industry.  We all have our war stories, and I am sure some will come out, but I think that this forum could be used for the experienced and beginners alike.  I figure this board covers mostly everything why not this topic as well.  Again I thank everyone for their thoughts.

Just to comment on the couple questions that came up about the position itself.  The money is not great, but I am making money instead of spending money if I were to go out on Friday and Saturday night.  If you don't like to stand around for hours then this is probably not for you.  I enjoy the guys that I work with so that helps time go by a lot faster.  I think the key factor is IF YOU CANNOT BE INSULTED AND BRUSH IT OFF IT IS NOT A JOB FOR YOU!!!!

Bobby


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## Drac (Jan 18, 2008)

Bobby135 said:


> I want to thank everyone for all their resposnes. I have been a Doorman, Bouncer, Security Person for almost 3 years at a busy bar\nightclub in Boston. I believe that a forum like this would be for advice and support for people who work in the crowd control industry. We all have our war stories, and I am sure some will come out, but I think that this forum could be used for the experienced and beginners alike. I figure this board covers mostly everything why not this topic as well. Again I thank everyone for their thoughts.
> 
> Just to comment on the couple questions that came up about the position itself. The money is not great, but I am making money instead of spending money if I were to go out on Friday and Saturday night. If you don't like to stand around for hours then this is probably not for you. I enjoy the guys that I work with so that helps time go by a lot faster. I think the key factor is IF YOU CANNOT BE INSULTED AND BRUSH IT OFF IT IS NOT A JOB FOR YOU!!!!Bobby


 
GREAT POST..Reppie sent...I've been doused with beer, had a shirt ripped off me, ashtrays thrown at me..But ya cant take any of it personal..They made me Head Bouncer at one club, the employees liked me but management didn't...This coporate owner had this crapola saying about problem causing customers "Eveybodys entitled to a bad day"..My answer was what about US..We have bad days too...


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## Xue Sheng (Jan 18, 2008)

Drac said:


> This coporate owner had this crapola saying about problem causing customers "Eveybodys entitled to a bad day"..My answer was what about US..We have bad days too...


 
Sorry a bit off topic, but that reminded me of the guy (when I was security for the state) that I told to move his car and he responded with Im a tax payer I can park in a state lot if I want to I said I pay taxes to now move the car or it gets towed

Sorry just needed to get that out


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## Drac (Jan 18, 2008)

Here's a quick story...Big guy in the bar pounding down beers like there is no tomorrow, one of the emplyees saw his dropping* " Ludes" *too...When he became a nusance the boss said to ask him to leave..I did and was told to "**** Off"..So it became physical..On the way out he tried to grab tables to prevent his ejection knocking down about 1/2 a dozen of them  and spilling drinks.

I get him outside and he tired to throw a kick..He lands wide open so I do a split entry and give him shuto to the back of the neck..He doens't feel it..The other bouncer calls the cops...It takes 6 of them to put him in the back of the crusier..He wasn't doing downers but PCP...The beer kept him mellow enough so he did really get angry and attack me with full force...They get him to the station and allow him to make his phone call..

He gets busy signal and tears the phone off the wall and throws it at the cops on station and attacks them..He tosses them around like rag dolls until they break out their PR-24's and go to work..I was lucky..


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## KempoGuy06 (Jan 18, 2008)

Drac said:


> Here's a quick story...Big guy in the bar pounding down beers like there is no tomorrow, one of the emplyees saw his dropping* " Ludes" *too...When he became a nusance the boss said to ask him to leave..I did and was told to "**** Off"..So it became physical..On the way out he tried to grab tables to prevent his ejection knocking down about 1/2 a dozen of them  and spilling drinks.
> 
> I get him outside and he tired to throw a kick..He land open so I do a split entry and give him shuto to the back of the neck..He doens't feel it..The other bouncer calls the cops...It takes 6 of them to put him in the back of the crusier..He wasn't doing downers but PCP...The beer kept him mellow enough so he did really get angry and attack me with full force...They get him to the station and allow him to make his phone call..
> 
> He gets busy signal and tears the phone off the wall and throws it at the cops on station and attacks them..He tosses them around like rag dolls until they break out their PR-24's and go to work..I was lucky..


JESUS...that sounds scary as hell. PCP  is a nasty drug and its almost like the limits on the brain are taken away and  they almost appear superhuman

B


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## KempoGuy06 (Jan 18, 2008)

Drac said:


> Remember this was the late 70's and early 80's and that was considered good money..Some nights you stood around and did nothing except drink and oogle the ladies...


ok that doesnt sound to bad

B


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## Drac (Jan 18, 2008)

KempoGuy06 said:


> JESUS...that sounds scary as hell. PCP is a nasty drug and its almost like the limits on the brain are taken away and they almost appear superhuman
> 
> B


 
.The coppers I spoke to afteward say his guy caught a few gut shots from the side handle batons and never felt it...Scary is right...


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## Drac (Jan 18, 2008)

There are some GREAT stories but the filter would take out the bad words and they are not as funny without them....


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## Bobby135 (Jan 18, 2008)

Drac said:


> GREAT POST..Reppie sent...I've been doused with beer, had a shirt ripped off me, ashtrays thrown at me..But ya cant take any of it personal..They made me Head Bouncer at one club, the employees liked me but management didn't...This coporate owner had this crapola saying about problem causing customers "Eveybodys entitled to a bad day"..My answer was what about US..We have bad days too...


 

Bad days are not allowed for employees, come on you know that!!!  I have a good management team at my bar and they understand that just like the patrons we have bad days as well.  Hell, the managers have bad days too.  We give people chances and such, but enough is enough.  I am glad that Massachusetts is a "no smoking" state so no flying ashtrays.  Beer spilled happens all the time, whether intentional or not.  This is my favorite of all time:"you suck all you do is pick on people and this is the only job you can do."  Everyone that works at the bar either has this as their second job or they are college students working part time.  All you can say is "thank you, yes i know i suck"" (as they are getting thrown out the door)  My favorite quote came from one of my managers as we were throwing someone out "walk with Jesus" absolutely hysterical


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## Xue Sheng (Jan 18, 2008)

Drac said:


> .The coppers I spoke to afteward say his guy caught a few gut shots from the side handle batons and never felt it...Scary is right...


 
They feel little or nothing on that stuff.

I have worked with people in a mental health situation (a hospital I use to work at) that were much the same, did not feel anything or didn't care not sure but at least it was legal medication. 

Then of course there was the bleeding IV drug using heroin addict now that was fun... *NOT*. 

But now this is degrading into war stories so I will stop.


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## KempoGuy06 (Jan 18, 2008)

Drac said:


> .The coppers I spoke to afteward say his guy caught a few gut shots from the side handle batons and never felt it...Scary is right...


WOW...Ive seen people take a full punch to the face and not go down and all they were on was alcohol, but to take multiple shots to the gut like that and not so much as flinch, thats incredible, scary, but incredible all the same

B


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## Drac (Jan 18, 2008)

Bobby135 said:


> Bad days are not allowed for employees, come on you know that!!! I have a good management team at my bar and they understand that just like the patrons we have bad days as well. Hell, the managers have bad days too. We give people chances and such, but enough is enough. I am glad that Massachusetts is a "no smoking" state so no flying ashtrays. Beer spilled happens all the time, whether intentional or not. This is my favorite of all time:"you suck all you do is pick on people and this is the only job you can do." Everyone that works at the bar either has this as their second job or they are college students working part time. All you can say is "thank you, yes i know i suck"" (as they are getting thrown out the door) My favorite quote came from one of my managers as we were throwing someone out "walk with Jesus" absolutely hysterical


 
I wouldn't want to be a bouncer now wth the smoking ban, I use to slip into the backroom for a ciggie and a coffee to take a break..I took over a club in Fla and one of the first thing I did was post a sign in the break room..The custormer is *NOT* always right, and we will not give them the illusion that they are..When I left 6 months later better than half the staff walked cause the new manager was one of those "coporate clones" that believed that the customer is always right types..


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## Drac (Jan 18, 2008)

Did I mention the joys of dealing with the college student that come home for Thanksgiving Break??? Some of the worst fights we have had occured during those times...Then there is the Spring Break, 90% of them head out to Ft Laud or some other warm cilmate, the ones that remain feel its their God given right to tear up your club just to blow off steam...

Then there is always the boyfriend or ex-spouse of one of your cocktail waitresses that comes in to confront here about something and an altercation always happens when he is asked to leave...It always seems that the prettier the girl, the bigger butthole she attracts...


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## Drac (Jan 18, 2008)

I have lost track of the number of time I had to accompany some lady to the restroom as one of her friends pass out on the toilet..Try to stand in a stall and hold up 105 lbs of dead weight while her friend tries pulls up whatever the now out of it party is wearing and then slinging her across your shoulder so you can carry her out of the club...Oh the joys...


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## Bobby135 (Jan 18, 2008)

Good Times Had By All!!!


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## Drac (Jan 18, 2008)

Bobby135 said:


> Good Times Had By All!!!


 
LOL..Until the next morning when she wakes up with the Grandfather of all Hangovers...


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## Drac (Jan 18, 2008)

Come on all you former bouncers, how many alleged black belts did you have to fight?? I think in all the years I met one REAL martial artists and he was no trouble..


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## Bobby135 (Jan 18, 2008)

I havent had the blackbelts as much as the suprises.  We have a mens rugby team that come in often (20-30 guys) and they are big guys that could really do damage if they wanted to.  I would take those guys in there over most because they are often times self policing and if you tell them to settle down they more often times than not do.  

Most likely it is the little guys that have the problems.  Damn Napolean Complex!!!!

Just a quick tip to those bouncers out there and those who would like to be one:  Pay attention to the group around the drunk guy and if one of them has to got talk to a more sober friend first!!!


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## Xue Sheng (Jan 18, 2008)

Drac said:


> Come on all you former bouncers, how many alleged black belts did you have to fight?? I think in all the years I met one REAL martial artists and he was no trouble..


 
The *ONE* day I did it as a favor to a friend I ment 1 alleged black belt.... I can imagine you meet lots like this guy with his high level of skill


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## Drac (Jan 18, 2008)

Xue Sheng said:
			
		

> The *ONE* day I did it as a favor to a friend I ment 1 alleged black belt.... I can imagine you meet lots like this guy with his high level of skill


 
Yes..Those use to fighting in a well lit dojo..Add, loud music,and flashing lights and they are worthless busy trying to move people so that can assume their fighting stance...


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## Bob Hubbard (Jan 18, 2008)

Just so y'll know, we're discussing adding some new forums and this is one of them. We're also considering a LEO forum as well, however the particulars aren't coming together as quickly. So, if the LEO's would like their own area, we'd welcome some input on that as well.

Danke!


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## Xue Sheng (Jan 18, 2008)

Drac said:


> Yes..Those use to fighting in a well lit dojo..Add, loud music,and flashing lights and they are worthless busy trying to move people so that can assume their fighting stance...


 
The one I saw was definitely a drunken style of some sort


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## still learning (Jan 18, 2008)

QUI-GON said:


> I'm confused. I thought you were a Judo Player.


 
Hello, My son and daughter is/was in High school judo team. I had a chance to train with them for a while and love the art of JUDO. Our Sensi Al Miyake...train in Japen.  He likes to share the combat side of Judo too!

Now only my daughter is on the High School Judo team.  Hopefully when they start training again...I will be able to join them. She is now Wrestling for the High school team.

The more you do Judo? ...the more you will like it!  (Kempo-guy) here!


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## still learning (Jan 18, 2008)

Hello, JUDO is great skill to learn if you are going to be a bouncer!

Mac, the animal ,Macyoung has written many books regarding being a bouncer and other street techniques that work for him as a bouncer...GREAT READING MATERIALS!

It would be great to hear from other people with bounceing and securtiy experiences.

Aloha ( all security guards in Hawaii- has NO police powers, therefore- best to call police and let them break-up any incidents).  Security guards in Hawaii are somtimes refer to as PAID witnesses')   I did it for a while!


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## Drac (Jan 18, 2008)

Bob Hubbard said:


> Just so y'll know, we're discussing adding some new forums and this is one of them. We're also considering a LEO forum as well, however the particulars aren't coming together as quickly. So, if the LEO's would like their own area, we'd welcome some input on that as well.
> 
> Danke!


 
I remember asking about an LEO forum a while ago...This might be a better idea...Many of us currently in LE started out as bouncers or security..With a forum such as this, those of us that moved on to public service can share our experiences with the ones working the private sector..What ya think??


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## arnisador (Jan 18, 2008)

Something like this is a good diea, but breaking it into too many sections isn't. How about one for LEOs and one for Private Security, including bouncers, bodyguards, store security, etc.?


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## shesulsa (Jan 18, 2008)

arnisador said:


> Something like this is a good diea, but breaking it into too many sections isn't. How about one for LEOs and one for Private Security, including bouncers, bodyguards, store security, etc.?


Gosh I like that idea. *hints at Bob*


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## jks9199 (Jan 19, 2008)

As a result of a couple of things -- I've been giving this some thought the last few days. 

I frequent another forum, "for cops, by cops."  If a person on that forum identifies themselves as a cop, they are required to submit to the verification process, and, once complete, they get a tag or banner on their posts to that effect.  Several of the sub forums are private, LEO only.  It's a great place to figuratively let your hair down...

LEO forums here...  I've seen 3 types of posts that I see as being relevant.  First -- you have various cops who are posting, either from their experience or about DT-type concerns.  Second -- you have private security posts, like the bouncer questions or posts about experiences in loss prevention.  The third -- those are the "why'd the cops do this?" or "should the Taser be allowed", ask-a-cop questions. 

So...  Maybe 3 subforums here would be my suggestion; one for public safety, one for private security, and one for general LE/Security related discussions.  (The first two could be merged -- but there are good reasons for them being separate.)  BUT... there's that whole issue of someone claiming to be a cop, who isn't.  I've participated in forums other places that didn't require verification; sometimes they were self-policing (sorry for the pun).  The real cops quickly managed to uncover the fakes, and often, publicly embarass them.  H'mm...  Kind of disruptive to peace & tranquility here, along with the issue of fraud bashing.  So...  what would I suggest?  

Either institute a verifcation process on those who choose to identify themselves as cops -- which could quickly become time consuming, and probably wouldn't work for private security people.  Or a disclaimer making it clear that any information may or may not be accurate, that there is no way to know for certain that anyone claiming to be a LEO/security professional really is, buyer beware, etc.

So... those are my thoughts.


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## Drac (Jan 19, 2008)

jks9199 said:


> So... Maybe 3 subforums here would be my suggestion; one for public safety, one for private security, and one for general LE/Security related discussions. (The first two could be merged -- but there are good reasons for them being separate.) BUT... there's that whole issue of someone claiming to be a cop, who isn't. I've participated in forums other places that didn't require verification; sometimes they were self-policing (sorry for the pun). The real cops quickly managed to uncover the fakes, and often, publicly embarass them. H'mm... Kind of disruptive to peace & tranquility here, along with the issue of fraud bashing. So... what would I suggest?


 
Yes, that makes sense to me...



jks9199 said:


> Either institute a verifcation process on those who choose to identify themselves as cops -- which could quickly become time consuming, and probably wouldn't work for private security people. Or a disclaimer making it clear that any information may or may not be accurate, that there is no way to know for certain that anyone claiming to be a LEO/security professional really is, buyer beware, etc.
> 
> So... those are my thoughts.


 
Good ideas....A simple PM to Bob Hubbard or another member of the Steering Committee stating your name and department so if a question arises they can verify your idenity...


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## jks9199 (Jan 19, 2008)

Drac said:


> Good ideas....A simple PM to Bob Hubbard or another member of the Steering Committee stating your name and department so if a question arises they can verify your idenity...


 
The catch about verification is that it takes time to actually verify someone.  You and I can bounce a question or two off of each other, and have a pretty good idea we are what we claim; just about any cop can.  (OK... maybe not feds! :wink  Sometimes, even with the department info, verifying someone can be tricky.  That's why I suggested a disclaimer along the lines of buyer beware... And, if there is a problem, it can be addressed down the line, much like suspicions about banned users signing up under a new ID.


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## Darksoul (Jan 19, 2008)

-Not sure how I could've missed this thread earlier but wanted to voice my support for the suggested forum(s). I've worked contract security for 9 years now, companies like APS, which was bought out by Pinkerton, which was bought out by Securitas, who I work for now in Denver. Have had a variety of positions, although never one where I had to deal forcefully with ppl, except of rare occasions. I give a lot of props to the LEOs/Bouncers on MT and in the offline world. I wanted to go into law enforcement til my college years, then realized I didn't have the mentality for it. However, sometimes you still have to deal with ppl, so I know a forum devoted to this field would be very beneficial, even if I only learn from other's experience. 

-Of course, I learn as well thru all the other forums on MT. Keep me laughing, keep my thinking, MT keeps me sane.

Andrew


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## Drac (Jan 19, 2008)

jks9199 said:


> The catch about verification is that it takes time to actually verify someone. You and I can bounce a question or two off of each other, and have a pretty good idea we are what we claim; just about any cop can. (OK... maybe not feds! :wink Sometimes, even with the department info, verifying someone can be tricky. That's why I suggested a disclaimer along the lines of buyer beware... And, if there is a problem, it can be addressed down the line, much like suspicions about banned users signing up under a new ID.


 
Makes even *better *sense to me...I've checked out a few LEO forums under different names..All they wanted to talk about was guns...This might be a sucess here...


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## Tez3 (Jan 20, 2008)

Darksoul said:


> -Not sure how I could've missed this thread earlier but wanted to voice my support for the suggested forum(s). I've worked contract security for 9 years now, companies like APS, which was bought out by Pinkerton, which was bought out by *Securitas,* who I work for now in Denver. Have had a variety of positions, although never one where I had to deal forcefully with ppl, except of rare occasions. I give a lot of props to the LEOs/Bouncers on MT and in the offline world. I wanted to go into law enforcement til my college years, then realized I didn't have the mentality for it. However, sometimes you still have to deal with ppl, so I know a forum devoted to this field would be very beneficial, even if I only learn from other's experience.
> 
> -Of course, I learn as well thru all the other forums on MT. Keep me laughing, keep my thinking, MT keeps me sane.
> 
> Andrew


 
 I know someone who knicked £54,000,000 from Securitas in England. he's a fighter called Lee Murray, he's living the good life in Morroco now. Don't admire him btw he's the successor to the infamous Krays.
http://mmajunkie.com/2007/02/22/ufc-fighter-lee-murray-alleged-105-million-robber-jailed-in-morocco/

I think a 'security' personnel type forum would be good, I'm not really interested in a police one as I like to get away from shop talk though something along the lines of this thread would be good, if you know what i mean. it would be hard for me to prove who I work for as I'm with the Ministry of Defence and when they aren't losing laptops full of confidential details of people are very cagy.


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## Drac (Jan 20, 2008)

Tez3 said:


> I think a 'security' personnel type forum would be good, I'm not really interested in a police one as I like to get away from shop talk though something along the lines of this thread would be good, if you know what i mean. it would be hard for me to prove who I work for as I'm with the Ministry of Defence and when they aren't losing laptops full of confidential details of people are very cagy.


 
Yes there are time when I too avoid shoptalk, but there are questions out there that need to be addressed and I don't mind answering questions..I think between the group here we detect a wanna be..You really wore for the M.O.D?..Cool..


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## jks9199 (Jan 20, 2008)

Tez3 said:


> I think a 'security' personnel type forum would be good, I'm not really interested in a police one as I like to get away from shop talk though something along the lines of this thread would be good, if you know what i mean. it would be hard for me to prove who I work for as I'm with the Ministry of Defence and when they aren't losing laptops full of confidential details of people are very cagy.



I've seen maybe three verification processes:
1. Give your info, and if it seems like you fit the definition, you're verified.
2. Give your info, and send along supporting doc (like a photocopy of your creds), and when received and reviewed, you're verified.
3. Give your info, someone actually contacts your agency, and verifies that you work there in an appropriate capacity.

I've seen some hybrids, like having a known person vouch for you being an alternative to the verification process.

As I said before -- there are problems with each, and MT is not a law-enforcement site.  The problems grow even more complex when you get into security professionals; we can define a cop (full authority to enforce the law & make arrests).  What is a "security professional?"  Does the receptionist who looks at an ID badge count?  Bouncer?  Store LP?  Private investigator?  Body guard?  Is the president of a security company still involved in security work?  What about the vice-president of a non-security company which employs proprietary guards & investigators?

In my opinion, the best approach HERE is to put a warning out that this is still the internet; people may not be what they claim to be, so buyer beware.  And -- if it comes to a time that there is a problem with a person's claims (e.g., a person claims to be a cop, but something they say doesn't come across making sense), it's time to report to the mods (maybe select a few mods to handle this, who have the requisite training/contacts), and the mods determine if further verification is needed.  In other words -- about the same as happens if someone seems to be a problem anywhere else on MT.

I think that there are definitely enough LEOs and security professionals here to pick up on someone who's not what they claim, and to let the area kind of self-police in that regard.  After all, there have been a couple of folks here that I've PMed something to the effect of "are you cop?  So am I."


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## Drac (Jan 20, 2008)

jks9199 said:


> In my opinion, the best approach HERE is to put a warning out that this is still the internet; people may not be what they claim to be, so buyer beware. And -- if it comes to a time that there is a problem with a person's claims (e.g., a person claims to be a cop, but something they say doesn't come across making sense), it's time to report to the mods (maybe select a few mods to handle this, who have the requisite training/contacts), and the mods determine if further verification is needed. In other words -- about the same as happens if someone seems to be a problem anywhere else on MT.
> 
> I think that there are definitely enough LEOs and security professionals here to pick up on someone who's not what they claim, and to let the area kind of self-police in that regard. After all, there have been a couple of folks here that I've PMed something to the effect of "are you cop? So am I."


 
I agree with ya *AGAIN *jks..All good points..


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## jks9199 (Jan 20, 2008)

Drac said:


> I agree with ya *AGAIN *jks..All good points..





> In my opinion, the best approach HERE is to put a warning out that this is still the internet; people may not be what they claim to be, so buyer beware. And -- if it comes to a time that there is a problem with a person's claims (e.g., a person claims to be a cop, but something they say doesn't come across making sense), it's time to report to the mods (maybe select a few mods to handle this, who have the requisite training/contacts), and the mods determine if further verification is needed. In other words -- about the same as happens if someone seems to be a problem anywhere else on MT.



I'm glad folks like my ideas...  

One more thought...  I see no need for someone to identify their occupation, unless they either choose to do so, or start making claims or giving advice.  In other words -- if you don't want to say what you do, whether that's cop or janitor, you don't need to.


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## Drac (Jan 20, 2008)

Yes..Be honest about your occupation folks, there is no shame in whatever job you hold..I done numerous jobs including dishwasher before I became a cop...


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## Bob Hubbard (Jan 20, 2008)

I like it.
I think we'll go the voluntary listing route & use a disclaimer, with the caveat that if you claim to be a LEO and are found to be lying, you'll be a-banned and b-possibly have your info turned over to the real LEO's for them to deal with, as I think impersonating an officer is a crime.  ??

I might add, I've several cops in the family, trained at a school that has several more, and know numerous cross the US and Canada. Not to mention other LE branches.  Oh, and we have a few on staff/former staff too. So, we're covered.


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## Drac (Jan 20, 2008)

Bob Hubbard said:


> I like it.
> I think we'll go the voluntary listing route & use a disclaimer, with the caveat that if you claim to be a LEO and are found to be lying, you'll be a-banned and b-possibly have your info turned over to the real LEO's for them to deal with


 
Sounds good to me Bob



Bob Hubbard said:


> as I think impersonating an officer is a crime


 
Yep...



Bob Hubbard said:


> I might add, I've several cops in the family, trained at a school that has several more, and know numerous cross the US and Canada. Not to mention other LE branches.  Oh, and we have a few on staff/former staff too. So, we're covered.


 
Excellent..Looks like we got the bases covered...


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## tradrockrat (Jan 20, 2008)

My wife _used_ to be a cop... does that count?  lol


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## Tez3 (Jan 21, 2008)

http://www.modpoliceofficers.co.uk/role_of_the_mdp.asp

My job is mostly security now.


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## Bobby135 (Jan 21, 2008)

I just wanted to say that I am glad this idea has recieved such positive support from everyone.  I look at it as if it helps 1 person in one situation then it was worthwhile.  Thanks everyone for your support.

Bobby


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## Bob Hubbard (Jan 21, 2008)

So, were we going with 1 or 2 sub forums?


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## arnisador (Jan 21, 2008)

Put me down for 2.


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## KempoGuy06 (Jan 21, 2008)

Bob Hubbard said:


> So, were we going with 1 or 2 sub forums?


what are the two sub-forums going to be?
1 for LEO's
1 for general security (i.e. bouncers etc)

I think you should actually make 3 sub forums and have one titled War Stories or such to group stories from current and former LEO's/bouncers

B


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## Bobby135 (Jan 21, 2008)

I kind of like the 3 section idea.  War stories are always fun!!!


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## terryl965 (Jan 21, 2008)

Bobby135 said:


> I kind of like the 3 section idea. War stories are always fun!!!


 

I agree with this I love war stories especially those that get so out there


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## KempoGuy06 (Jan 21, 2008)

terryl965 said:


> I agree with this I love war stories especially those that get so out there


YES!!! KG06 has a good idea for once

B


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## jks9199 (Jan 21, 2008)

Let me suggest that a War Stories folder under General Self Defense might be a good idea, all by itself.  Leave it open to anyone with a story of really using martial arts in self defense....  Otherwise, it can quickly become a long thread of increasingl implausible tales...


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## Big Don (Jan 21, 2008)

jks9199 said:


> Let me suggest that a War Stories folder under General Self Defense might be a good idea, all by itself.  Leave it open to anyone with a story of really using martial arts in self defense....  Otherwise, it can quickly become a long thread of increasingl implausible tales...


That is the best idea yet! Not being in law enforcement or security, I have nothing to contribute, other than listening to stories, which is always fun.

We all know the difference between a story and a war story don't we?
A story starts "Once upon a time..." a war story starts "No ****..."


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## Drac (Jan 21, 2008)

jks9199 said:


> Let me suggest that a War Stories folder under General Self Defense might be a good idea, all by itself. Leave it open to anyone with a story of really using martial arts in self defense.... Otherwise, it can quickly become a long thread of increasingl implausible tales...


 
Yes that's true...I have stories from my bouncer days and as an LEO...


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## Tez3 (Jan 22, 2008)

Big Don said:


> That is the best idea yet! Not being in law enforcement or security, I have nothing to contribute, other than listening to stories, which is always fun.
> 
> We all know the difference between a story and a war story don't we?
> A story starts "Once upon a time..." a war story starts "No ****..."


 
Over here war stories start with "Pull up a sandbag...."


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## Drac (Jan 22, 2008)

Over here some begin with "You all aint gonna believe this ****"..


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## Brian R. VanCise (Jan 22, 2008)

Drac said:


> Over here some begin with "You all aint gonna believe this ****"..


 
I have a few of those myself Drac.


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## KempoGuy06 (Jan 22, 2008)

Drac said:


> Over here some begin with "You all aint gonna believe this ****"..


or "Listen to what this mother ****er did..."

those usually end bad...for the other guy 

B


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## Bob Hubbard (Jan 22, 2008)

Y'all hammer out the remaining details, and I'll launch these over the weekend.


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## KempoGuy06 (Jan 22, 2008)

Bob Hubbard said:


> Y'all hammer out the remaining details, and I'll launch these over the weekend.


cool. I say 3 sections

section 1) LEO's
section 2) Security/Bouncers
section 3) War stories

I say keep the section of war stories in this group only because I believe it will keep things in check (not that mod's cant, but since it is in the same group as a section for LEO's...) Plus keeping it stories specific about LEO's/bouncers and their experiences will be better because of what happened with the thread about my story. Cant it put MT in some sort of legal issue, if some incedent goes to court or something? maybe Im wrong...

who else votes 3? 

B


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## Bob Hubbard (Jan 22, 2008)

We restrict it a bit by not allowing stories that are pending court-time. Resolved situations are probably fine.


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## KempoGuy06 (Jan 22, 2008)

Bob Hubbard said:


> We restrict it a bit by not allowing stories that are pending court-time. Resolved situations are probably fine.


cool, thanks for clearing that up.

B


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## SageGhost83 (Jan 22, 2008)

Awesome idea! There are enough sincere people in this internet community and there are enough actual LEO's and Bouncers in this community that it wouldn't turn out the way that American Ninjutsu forum turned out . I think that it would be a great resource to allow LEO/Bouncers to exchange notes and assist each other in such a dangerous career feild, and that could only be a good thing.


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## Bobby135 (Jan 22, 2008)

Bob Hubbard said:


> Y'all hammer out the remaining details, and I'll launch these over the weekend.


 

Sweet.  I am glad this is going up.  Thanks Everyone!!!  I bet there are some good topics to come of this

Bobby


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## Drac (Jan 23, 2008)

Bob Hubbard said:


> We restrict it a bit by not allowing stories that are pending court-time.


 
That goes without saying..



Bob Hubbard said:


> Resolved situations are probably fine.


 
Yep...The after it was all said and done stories are usually EXCELLENT...


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## Bob Hubbard (Jan 25, 2008)

3 sections launched.  Enjoy.


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## Drac (Jan 25, 2008)

Bob Hubbard said:


> 3 sections launched. Enjoy.


 
Thanks Bob...


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## Brian R. VanCise (Jan 25, 2008)

Excellent!


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## terryl965 (Jan 25, 2008)

Good Job Bob


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## arnisador (Jan 25, 2008)

Cool!


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## jks9199 (Jan 26, 2008)

Hey!  Maybe one of the security types can start something in that folder?


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