# Whats the diff between the degrees in BB



## SilatFan (May 2, 2007)

Can you describe what the differences are between the degrees after black belt?   Like what does a 3rd degree BB know or what can they do that a 1st degree does not know or cant do? 

Thanks


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## Carol (May 2, 2007)

SilatFan said:


> Can you describe what the differences are between the degrees after black belt? Like what does a 3rd degree BB know or what can they do that a 1st degree does not know or cant do?
> 
> Thanks


 
Form 6  

The Parker system doesn't end at 1st black.  There are additional techs. extensions, forms, plus many BBs take on a teaching responsibility commisurate with experience with their experience.

The specific techs are going to vary by lineage and even by school.


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## Sukerkin (May 2, 2007)

In general terms, altho' there may or may not be 'new' techniques learned, the quality of what a higher Dan grade can do is an order of magnitude better than that of the previous grade, or at least that is the theory.

That's one of the reasons why the time interval between Dan gradings is so long e.g. say it takes three years to get shodan, then, unless there are extenuating circumstances (natural brilliance etc) then it should take about as long again before you rise to nidan.

That's not a fixed rule, of course but the overall impression is there.


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## jks9199 (May 2, 2007)

SilatFan said:


> Can you describe what the differences are between the degrees after black belt?   Like what does a 3rd degree BB know or what can they do that a 1st degree does not know or cant do?
> 
> Thanks


The answer will be different in different system.  In mine, there is some material that generally isn't taught much until black belt -- but different levels just mean that you've done the testing and been around.  You've shown skill appropriate to your level, met a time requirement, been involved with the system, and done a few other things along the way -- but to point out and say "he's 2nd level, he knows..."  

In many systems, promotion above 5th degree/dan/level is a recognition of service to the system/association, or general personal achievement more than martial arts achievement.

But, the simple truth is that there is no real meaning to different degrees or levels OUTSIDE the system; I've been a 2nd level black belt in my system for more than ten years, simply because I haven't tested for advancement.  That doesn't mean that my training has been stagnant, just my ranking!


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## stone_dragone (May 2, 2007)

This is an description of the various degrees of Black Belt as written by Larry Tatum of American Kenpo.

*1st Degree Black Belt through 10th Degree Black Belt**​*First Degree Black Belt: *A first-degree black belt (assistant instructor) has achieved a certain level of physical expertise. Understanding the concepts and principles of motion, he has become a formidable fighter defensively and offensively. However, his skills outstrip his ability to communicate and teach, so teaching is essential to any further progress.
*Second Degree Black Belt: *For the second-degree black belt (associate instructor), the ability to teach has begun to reinforce newfound skills. He has discovered that "to teach is to learn," and this is accomplished by a re-evaluation of past mistakes and bad habits. A new sense of responsibility appears, and he must begin to cultivate an image of authority within the school.
*Third Degree Black Belt: *At third degree (instructor), the black belt finds that he can provide guidance and direction in the execution of techniques to first and second-degree black belt. He now has the authority within the school environment to organize a curriculum, express policy and set up tests.
*Fourth Degree Black Belt: *At fourth-degree black belt (senior instructor), the black belt acquires the privilege of overriding others within the school after careful discussion, as well as a more mature ability to communicate that allows teaching first, second and third degree black belts. Together with these responsibilities, the fourth-degree black belt assists the master instructor in seminars, demonstration and other public functions at which the school and the art are represented. His physical expertise should be noticeably above that of more junior black belts, particularly in terms of speed, power and timing.
*Fifth Degree Black Belt: *The fifth-degree black belt (master, associate professor), has reached the level at which he begins to teach the art beyond the realm of the school. Although the school curriculum has been carefully spelled out, he is no longer bound by it and has acquired the ability to tailor it to fit individual student needs. At fifth degree, in short, the black belt now moves on to a broader base of responsibility.
*Sixth Degree Black Belt: *The sixth-degree black belt (master, full professor) has now reached a level at which he can not only teach the art but also begin to positively formulate its concepts and principles outside his school. As a result, caution becomes imperative. He has advanced to a critical point in his art, and it is at this point that his accumulation of time in grade becomes his defense against teaching what he cannot later retract.
*Seventh Degree Black Belt: *At seventh-degree black belt (master, senior professor), a noticeable change takes place in the black belts understanding of his art. He becomes capable of ascertaining the problems that lie within the teaching of the curriculum. Working from a broader base and beginning to teach locally, nationally and internationally what was once taught mainly at home, he now recognizes that his former ways may not work abroad and must be tailored to particular minds, cultures and agendas. He has realized that while the language of the art remains the same, the varied applications of that language must be fitted to the environment. In brief, a seventh degree who goes out to teach in the world must have learned to tailor his teachings to the place and the people.
*Eighth Degree Black Belt: *At eighth-degree black belt (senior master), the black belts concerns shift to exploring areas of physical mastership that were not visible to him in the past. His art eventually begins to expand physically and mentally, so much so that a definite physical change becomes evident, expressing the fact that he has clearly settled into a physical mastery. Thus, movements are less contrived because they are in the process of becoming embodied within him.
*Ninth Degree Black Belt: *At ninth-degree black belt (chief master), the black belt has reached to a level where, he is no longer separate from the art he has internalized; he has at last embodied it and become an element of it. What he teaches and what he physically embodies are indivisible. His contributions to the martial arts inside and outside the community are many, and his rank is backed by many years of sacrifice and service.
*Tenth Degree Black Belt: *Tenth-degree black belt (senior master of the art) represents a lifelong endeavor to help all humankind. The rank is so respected by peers and students that the persons word affects the course of the art.


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## MJS (May 2, 2007)

SilatFan said:


> Can you describe what the differences are between the degrees after black belt? Like what does a 3rd degree BB know or what can they do that a 1st degree does not know or cant do?
> 
> Thanks


 
Stone_dragone pretty much summed it up with his post.  In addition, you'll notice that there are extensions to the base techniques.  You can see that here on this chart, taken from Larry Tatums site.  Once you begin to advance to the upper ranks, its not so much new material, but your understanding of the material and contributions you've made to the art.

Mike


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## bushidomartialarts (May 2, 2007)

I've been disappointed with senior black belts in Kenpo.  To be clear, I'm not really singling out Kenpo -- it's my style and I love it.  It's just the only art I'm competent to discuss at this level.

While some organizations do have definitions and even published requirements, it seems like a lot of the higher ranks are given as political or personal favors.  I know a particular guy who was promoted from 3rd to 7th at one whack because he opened a profitable school.

In my own organization, we have very specific and objective requirements.  That way nobody gets political rank, or gets denied a deserved rank simply because they didn't kiss the right ***.


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## Touch Of Death (May 2, 2007)

stone_dragone said:


> This is an description of the various degrees of Black Belt as written by Larry Tatum of American Kenpo.
> 
> *1st Degree Black Belt through 10th Degree Black Belt**​*First Degree Black Belt: *A first-degree black belt (assistant instructor) has achieved a certain level of physical expertise. Understanding the concepts and principles of motion, he has become a formidable fighter defensively and offensively. However, his skills outstrip his ability to communicate and teach, so teaching is essential to any further progress.
> *Second Degree Black Belt: *For the second-degree black belt (associate instructor), the ability to teach has begun to reinforce newfound skills. He has discovered that "to teach is to learn," and this is accomplished by a re-evaluation of past mistakes and bad habits. A new sense of responsibility appears, and he must begin to cultivate an image of authority within the school.
> ...


 As long as you realize this is unique to that organization. We thank you for the list.
sean


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## Doc (May 2, 2007)

In answer to the original question: About a half inch.


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## Blindside (May 2, 2007)

Doc said:


> In answer to the original question: About a half inch.


 
I always knew rank was about **** length, I just didn't know what the gradations were.

Lamont


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## Doc (May 2, 2007)

Blindside said:


> I always knew rank was about **** length, I just didn't know what the gradations were.
> 
> Lamont



It's always be that way. Now you know.


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## bushidomartialarts (May 2, 2007)

Doc said:


> In answer to the original question: About a half inch.




just half????  A lot of the seniors I know act like they could put an eye out if it weren't so cold in the gym.


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## Kembudo-Kai Kempoka (May 2, 2007)

You guys are crackin me up.

"Don't step on my big 10 inch/th degree!"

I'm gonna go peruse the girlie pics at maxim.com and see if I can't earn me a promotion.

D.


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## Doc (May 2, 2007)

Kembudo-Kai Kempoka said:


> You guys are crackin me up.
> 
> "Don't step on my big 10 inch/th degree!"
> 
> ...



That's why I won't wear stripes.. Judge me by me, not the belt.


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## Kembudo-Kai Kempoka (May 3, 2007)

Doc said:


> That's why I won't wear stripes.. Judge me by me, not the belt.


 
Uh, Captain...that sounds like the old "it's the mechanic, not the tool" excuse used by first degrees. I'm thinking your small harem of lady friends wouldn't be after you to "spread the wealth" if this were the case, no?


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## IWishToLearn (May 3, 2007)

Doc said:


> In answer to the original question: About a half inch.



LOL!


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## IWishToLearn (May 3, 2007)

Kembudo-Kai Kempoka said:


> Uh, Captain...that sounds like the old "it's the mechanic, not the tool" excuse used by first degrees. I'm thinking your small harem of lady friends wouldn't be after you to "spread the wealth" if this were the case, no?


Hey Doc, how's the water?


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## Kembudo-Kai Kempoka (May 3, 2007)

IWishToLearn said:


> Hey Doc, how's the water?


 
Better question...how's the back? Salinas ain't nearly as far as Torrance from North Bay. We should train and consume mass quantities when you're up for it.

Be good,

D.


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## IWishToLearn (May 3, 2007)

Getting better and better every day. Back to teaching and very light workouts of my own. Got a bit ahead of myself and did a bit of kicking, caused a day of concern for me...but Dr. Norco and FMLA leave took care of that. I can't yet extend a full kick on the left side, but the right is almost back to normal mobility. Haven't tested how much oomph it's got yet, still kinda gun shy after hurting myself the first time.  Taking it one day at a time. I surmise in about two months I'll be back somewhere between 50-75% boogieing speed.


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## Doc (May 3, 2007)

IWishToLearn said:


> Getting better and better every day. Back to teaching and very light workouts of my own. Got a bit ahead of myself and did a bit of kicking, caused a day of concern for me...but Dr. Norco and FMLA leave took care of that. I can't yet extend a full kick on the left side, but the right is almost back to normal mobility. Haven't tested how much oomph it's got yet, still kinda gun shy after hurting myself the first time.  Taking it one day at a time. I surmise in about two months I'll be back somewhere between 50-75% boogieing speed.



Didn't know you boogie was broke. - dam!


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