# Sho and Dai Katas



## stone_dragone (Jul 10, 2006)

On the way to dinner tonight, I was thinking to myself (as I often do when I'm walking somewhere) about our art of karate, our kata and the like and I began wondering about Bassai Dai/Sho and Kanku Dai/Sho.

I have only ever learned the Dai versions of the above forms and only seen the Sho versions on video/mPEG (and that was a while ago).  

For those who do both kata (or all four, I guess), do the Sho forms teach any concepts or principles, attacks or defenses that are not taught in the Dai versions?  Are their bunkai/oyo significantly different enough to warrant teaching/learning both forms?  Does your chewing gum lose its flavor on the bed post over night?

These are the kind of things that keep me awake at night.


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## JPH (Jul 10, 2006)

The use of the dai and sho/others came into use many years ago when teachers used and converted other previously existing kata to fit their own styles and methods of teaching. Baissai Dai was originally known as Passai, and I believe that Kanku is a variation based on the Kushanku kata.

Other uses included breaking down similar kata into structured teaching tools to emphsisze certain points in otherwise similar kata, such as Fukyugata shodan, nidan and the Pinan and Naihanchi series, which later became Tekki shodan/nidan/sandan.

Teachers often seek different ways to impart their knowledge to their students and bunkai will be varied just as the differences vary in other versions of their kata.

The loss of flavor in your chewing gum will be directly proportionate to the strength and quality of the varnish used on your bed post.


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## stone_dragone (Jul 11, 2006)

Thanks much, but not quite where I was going with that.  I understand the history of these variouis kata, but have never learned the -Sho variations of the Bassai and Kanku.  I am a big fan of both the forms and was looking more for insight on whether or not there were notable differences between the two versions of each kata.  

Also looking to see if they contain any element that the longer -Dai forms do not.  

I also understand the the bunkai/oyo for each kata is dependent upon the students level and the Instructer's preferences...got that.

I appologize if my intent wasn't that clear in the begining.


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## karateka (Jul 18, 2006)

the sho versions of bassai and kanku are indeed different from the dai versions. i suggest you talk to your sensei and remember: google is your friend.


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## chinto (May 27, 2007)

stone_dragone said:


> On the way to dinner tonight, I was thinking to myself (as I often do when I'm walking somewhere) about our art of karate, our kata and the like and I began wondering about Bassai Dai/Sho and Kanku Dai/Sho.
> 
> I have only ever learned the Dai versions of the above forms and only seen the Sho versions on video/mPEG (and that was a while ago).
> 
> ...


 

sounds like you study a japanese system, and I can only say from the okinawan perspective .. there are diferences and some techniques in one that are not in the other.  i would sugest you talk to your sensei and ask him if he knows both versions or if the system for some reason does not have the 'sho' kata in it.


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## Chizikunbo (May 27, 2007)

stone_dragone said:


> On the way to dinner tonight, I was thinking to myself (as I often do when I'm walking somewhere) about our art of karate, our kata and the like and I began wondering about Bassai Dai/Sho and Kanku Dai/Sho.
> 
> I have only ever learned the Dai versions of the above forms and only seen the Sho versions on video/mPEG (and that was a while ago).
> 
> ...



Katas like Passai (Bassai) sho were created by Itosu Yasutsune as "introductions" to the real forms (dai)...they were made for school children, and there is widespread speculation that Itosu Yasutsune attempted to remove the innercontents (bunkai) from the forms, so as not to reveal the inner secrets of the art, but still gain a good foundation in basics, and cultivate the physical development that made karate popular among the Japanese.
JMHO
--josh


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