# jujutsukas around here?



## MAfreak (May 15, 2016)

i'm planning to join a club which teaches German ju-jutsu - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
which is promoted as "mixed martial arts and self defense" and therefore corresponds with my own training while and after being in my former karateclub.

surely its not common overseas but i'd like to exchange views with practinioners of japanese jujutsu about similarities and differences.


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## Buka (May 16, 2016)

Your German Ju-jutsu sounds really nice. Hope you love it.

While Japanese Ju-jutsu isn't my practiced style (karate is) I've done a fair amount of training in it over the years......mostly getting beat up. 
And components of it are a part of all the DT in law Enforcement I've seen and been part of.

Were there techniques in your former Karate style that come from Japanese Ju-jutsu?


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## MAfreak (May 16, 2016)

yes we worked a lot with wristlocks and (at least standup)-grappling, also my trainer then was judoka and hapkidoin in his past and brought things of these descentents of jjj into our training.
since i mixed up my karate with bjj/mma training, i think, i will remember most of the techniques, but i am glad to get back into regulary training and to can give my training/style a name again instead of telling stories about "began with karate, did many cross training blah blah blah" to explain my background.


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## Buka (May 17, 2016)

I would have loved to have trained with a Judoka/hapkidoin, I'll bet that was fun. Stand up grappling with a Judoka - ain't going to be standing long I betcha'.

"karate with bjj/mma training" - that sounds terrific. Sounds like a lot of fun with practical sparring/rolling. 

I've found that explaining your training, or giving it a name, can sometimes be a lesson in futility depending on the background of the person you're talking to.

Are you still going to join the German ju-jutsu club?


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## MAfreak (May 17, 2016)

first i have to say your kindness and interest in my story is amazing. 
yes i had e-mail contact with one of the two black belt trainers of the club (its in a nearby town) and they are both back there on may 27th, so we will meet then and check my skills.

well i met people from a club here which teaches mma, who thought (from what i told of my background) that i'm just kind of a loudmouth, as if it would be impossible to learn mma or ground fighting outside of their school. i didn't react like that but was a bit pissed about that arrogance. since i tested what i learned in sparring with "real" mma guys or of other hybrid arts, i already knew that my training was effective, but without a real organization behind, people think, one sucks.

so after my training partner left me, i want get back into training again and
even if here are at least 5 clubs with at least 10 different martial arts styles in my hometown i will drive 15 miles there and 15 miles back to go on with this jj style because i'm sure there is no other martial art that would fit better to me. now i'm sitting here and can't wait till then.


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## Tony Dismukes (May 17, 2016)

Let us know how it goes. I've seen a little video of German jujutsu, but have no first-hand experience of the art.


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## MAfreak (May 17, 2016)

i will do so. i hope, in their standup training, the muay thai part is bigger than the karate and aikido parts are. and i'm wondering how much of modern bjj tech is in their ground game;
if their self defense training is similar to krav maga;
and if there is even more weapons training than the stick fighting from escrima what i already know that its in.
i wait eagerly.  and i guess, these things would be the big difference to the classic japanese jujutsu.


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## Steve (May 17, 2016)

Sounds cool.  Are you going to wear Gi-derhosen?


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## Buka (May 17, 2016)

MAfreak said:


> i will do so. i hope, in their standup training, the muay thai part is bigger than the karate and aikido parts are. and i'm wondering how much of modern bjj tech is in their ground game;
> if their self defense training is similar to krav maga;
> and if there is even more weapons training than the stick fighting from escrima what i already know that its in.
> i wait eagerly.  and i guess, these things would be the big difference to the classic japanese jujutsu.



Great thoughts about all of this. I guess there's only one way to find out. What a great thing to explore.


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## MAfreak (May 18, 2016)

yes, but to know for sure what "kind" of striking and weapons (if any) are in japanese jujutsu, a jujutsuka is needed to tell. 

@Steve  lederhosen is bavarian which isn't exactly the same is common german. 
btw do brazilian jiu jitsu practicioners wear samba dress?


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## Steve (May 18, 2016)

MAfreak said:


> btw do brazilian jiu jitsu practicioners wear samba dress?


only when we want to look pretty.


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## Tony Dismukes (May 18, 2016)

MAfreak said:


> btw do brazilian jiu jitsu practicioners wear samba dress?


Not exactly a samba dress, but I think he looks very pretty in it regardless.


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## MAfreak (May 18, 2016)

i guess my old karate gi will suffer the same fate like the dresses in this video. it barely survived my judo crosstraining then.


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## Chris Parker (May 25, 2016)

MAfreak said:


> i'm planning to join a club which teaches German ju-jutsu - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> which is promoted as "mixed martial arts and self defense" and therefore corresponds with my own training while and after being in my former karateclub.
> 
> surely its not common overseas but i'd like to exchange views with *practinioners of japanese jujutsu about similarities and differences*.





MAfreak said:


> i will do so. i hope, in their standup training, the muay thai part is bigger than the karate and aikido parts are. and i'm wondering how much of modern bjj tech is in their ground game;
> if their self defense training is similar to krav maga;
> and if there is even more weapons training than the stick fighting from escrima what i already know that its in.
> i wait eagerly.  and i guess,* these things would be the big difference to the classic japanese jujutsu*.






MAfreak said:


> *yes, but to know for sure what "kind" of striking and weapons (if any) are in japanese jujutsu, a jujutsuka is needed to tell.*
> 
> @Steve  lederhosen is bavarian which isn't exactly the same is common german.
> btw do brazilian jiu jitsu practicioners wear samba dress?



So here's the problem here… there's no such thing as a single, uniform "classic Japanese Jujutsu". There were literally hundreds, if not thousands of different systems from Japan's history that could qualify as being described as such. So if you want to know the differences, you need to be a lot more specific about what you're comparing and contrasting between. At the moment, it's like asking the difference between a hamburger and European food.

But, of course, none of that will mean anything if there isn't a viable option of some form (line) of a classical system around for you to study… all it is other than that is some basic intellectual understanding with no real practical reasoning to it. Are you wanting to compare in order to decide on what you're doing? Or are you using your sense of "classical Jujutsu" as a form of litmus test for your "German Jujutsu" to check it's methodology? If the former, then we'll need to know what the Japanese system is (Hontai Yoshin Ryu is different to Yagyu Shingan Ryu, which is different to Tenjin Shin'yo Ryu, which is different to Sekiguchi Shin Shin Ryu, which is different to Fusen Ryu, which is different to Sho Sho Ryu, which is different to Kashima Shinryu, and so on…). If the latter, what does it matter? It's obvious, just by it's name, that "German Jujutsu" isn't going to be the same as "classical Japanese Jujutsu"… provided you don't think you're doing something that's particularly related to Japanese arts, you're fine.


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## MAfreak (May 27, 2016)

i know of different jjj styles. if jujutsukas are here, they could name her style and tell about their focus, just for curiosity, not for deciding to switch to another style. also for being originally created out of karate, judo and aikido, german jujutsu is very well related to japanese arts. it seems you want to spite me a bit and by the way, i don't care about the roots, traditions and doing robot-dance aka katas, i care about effectiveness and comprehensiveness. otherwise i wouldn't have left my former karate club. so for example the less karate striking trainingmethods but muay thai striking methods is in the now further developed gjj, the better.


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## MAfreak (May 27, 2016)

just coming from the first session.
the standup was pretty much like kick/thaiboxing, so not much similar to shotokan (the gjj videos i saw show a shotokan-like striking style). many judo throwing and bjj-like ground fighting.
so exactly, what i was hoping.
i wouldn't agree with all of the self-defense techniques while i already know alternatives for the specific attacks, so its okay. and i also could show some they didn't know yet and said, they're good (knife-, gun disarming etc). so it was not "you're the newbie, just listen" but a nice exchange, what i was hoping too.


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## Buka (May 27, 2016)

I think you should be careful with the _"i wouldn't agree with all of the self-defense techniques while i already know alternatives"_. I've been there, too, but that mind set only hinders, not helps.

Just have fun and give it some time. And, of course, keep reporting.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (May 27, 2016)

Buka said:


> I think you should be careful with the _"i wouldn't agree with all of the self-defense techniques while i already know alternatives"_. I've been there, too, but that mind set only hinders, not helps.
> 
> Just have fun and give it some time. And, of course, keep reporting.


Eh, if he's not there to learn self-defense it doesn't really hinder too much. You can get different ideas based on the techniques, and focus on the rest of the system as a whole, which is always fun.


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## MAfreak (May 28, 2016)

i meant self defense techniques which are too complicated and more of a show technique for belt tests.
it was the same back then in karate or when i visited hapkido events and the like. i'd go from habits of kickboxing to block punches and kicks or stay with the krav maga disarming i've learned etc.


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## Chris Parker (Jun 1, 2016)

MAfreak said:


> i know of different jjj styles.



Really? What do you know of them? Because, honestly, if you actually had some understanding of them, you would have understood my answer… and, likely, not asked the question in the first place.



MAfreak said:


> if jujutsukas are here, they could name her style and tell about their focus,



And exactly who do you think answered you?

Thing is, as I said, you need to be far more specific in what you're asking for comparisons between… the person answering you would need to be aware of their own system, what sets their system apart from others, they'd need to be familiar with your system, what sets it apart as well, have a deep enough understanding to discuss similarities and differences clearly, and you'd need to have enough of a grasp of all of the above to be able to actually follow the answers.

Here's the biggest issue, though… it's not about techniques. It's not even about technical differences. The reality of the differences are based more in concepts of ri-ai, hyoshi, ma-ai, and so on. You can't even say "this one focuses more on throws", because the exact nature of those throwing methods are based in the other ideas… and will frame the form for the throws, the set ups, the context, and everything else… 



MAfreak said:


> just for curiosity, not for deciding to switch to another style.



Then your first step is educating yourself on exactly what it is you're asking.



MAfreak said:


> also for being originally created out of karate, judo and aikido, german jujutsu is very well related to japanese arts.



Please. There are certain traits found in Japanese arts… and, pretty much universally, when a new system is created, particularly Western, out of disparate elements in this way, it loses all trace of being a "Japanese" art… 



MAfreak said:


> it seems you want to spite me a bit and by the way, i don't care about the roots, traditions and doing robot-dance aka katas, i care about effectiveness and comprehensiveness.



Then don't worry about Japanese jujutsu… other than your very off-base idea of "robot-dance aka katas" (so much wrong in so few words there…), you've just basically said you don't care about it at all.



MAfreak said:


> otherwise i wouldn't have left my former karate club. so for example the less karate striking trainingmethods but muay thai striking methods is in the now further developed gjj, the better.



And then emphasised that you really don't have any interest in Japanese jujutsu.


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## MAfreak (Jun 1, 2016)

sorry, you get on my nerves. don't act up like a professor and don't make a science out of what was supposed to be a little smalltalk. maybe its the language barrier but i'm pretty sure to had my question asked enough understandable. but its okay, i don't really care anymore what japanese styles do.


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## Jujutsuka (Jul 7, 2016)

MAfreak said:


> yes, but to know for sure what "kind" of striking and weapons (if any) are in japanese jujutsu, a jujutsuka is needed to tell.



I know that in my style of jujutsu, we use a lot of kicks to the ribs. Usually things like a front kick are used to set up a more complicated move like a wrist lock or a hip throw. Not too many combos in my style, but you can always add those in if you've trained in an art like boxing or muay thai.


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