# What do you really learn in Ninjutsu?



## Maddogkull

What do you really learn in Ninjutsu??  It is an art of stealth?  Do you learn how to conceal yourself?  Like what are the fundamentals involved in Ninjutsu training?  What requirements do you need to become a black belt/master in the art?


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## Omar B

_What do you learn?_  Lots, mostly self defense.
_Is it an art of stealth?_  No, but there is a component of it in the curriculum
_Fundamentals?_  Just like any other martial art
_What's required to become a black belt?_  Lots of training, learning the curriculum.  Just like any MA, there's required stuff you have to learn at every level.


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## emiliozapata

the highest aim should be to learn your own mind and spirit! Learn your fears, learn to embrace them and to conquer them!


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## Chris Parker

Okay, I'm going to try to fill in all the gaps at once here, and be as comprehensive as is possible, as it may help to have a Ninjutsu person actually answer the question.

To begin with, the term "Ninjutsu" is not as common as it once was, but we'll use it for the sake of convenience here. I'll explain. The major Ninjutsu-related organisations (and I'm talking about the legit ones only here) are the Bujinkan, Genbukan, and Jinenkan. There are also very legitimate off-shoots of these organisations, as well as not-so-legitimate ones, and quite a few people who have read a book or two, or heard some names it seems, and think that they can say they are teaching/studying the arts. So it's safest to stick with the Big Three until you know what you are really looking at.

The Bujinkan could be looked at as the "father" of the other two (with Takamatsu Sensei being the Grandsire of the three). It's syllabus is made up of 9 distinct Classical Arts, some are Ninjutsu, the others are Bujutsu, and the Ninjutsu side has been sort of downplayed, as the focus of the Bujinkan is not Ninjutsu, it is on instilling the skills and philosophies gleaned from the variety of schools that make up it's curriculuum, and refer to it's teachings as Budo Taijutsu (Martial Ways of Body Techniques/Art), although many weapons are also taught.

The Genbukan has a couple of associated groups, most notably the Kokusei Jujutsu Renmei (KJJR). They refer to their Genbukan syllabus as Ninpo, and it is made up again of a variety of old systems, primarily coming originally from the Bujinkan, although they have been supplemented/added to others that Tanemura Sensei learnt after leaving the Bujinkan. They teach Bujutsu/Jujutsu in the KJJR, so the Ninpo/Ninjutsu portion that you can learn is kept aside there. This is possibly the best if you are after Ninjutsu only.

The Jinenkan is headed by Manaka Sensei, one of Hatsumi Sensei's (head of the Bujinkan) first students. He teaches 7 systems, six of which come from the Bujinkan (Togakure Ryu Ninpo Taijutsu being the most "ninja" of all the various schools, Koto Ryu and Gyokko Ryu both having links to Ninjutsu and Ninja groups in the past, Kukishin Ryu, Shinden Fudo Ryu, and Hontai Takagi Yoshin Ryu being more "samurai", or classical Bujutsu), and the seventh being the Jinen Ryu, Manaka Sensei's own creation based primarily on sword and Jutte.

Within the Genbukan and Jinenkan curriculuums you will have the opportunity to learn individual systems, within the Bujinkan this is far less common, as their focus is on the skills, and the others on the correct transmission of the old schools. Neither is better, by the way, just better suited to individual students. 

So as you can see, few legit groups will actually even say they are teaching "Ninjutsu", instead using other terms to show the range of sources that their teachings come from. So what is entailed in that syllabus? Oh, lots! I'm going to be rather general here, as it will cover a variety of the different Ryu that make up each organisation, but it should give you a bit of an idea.

First off is the unarmed combat. This can be divided up into various groupings, most commonly Jutaijutsu (grappling, most commonly standing up, throws, limb controls and locks, chokes, escapes, etc) and Dakentaijutsu (striking, kicking, blocking etc), possibly with Taihenjutsu (rolls, breakfalls, escapes, junan taiso body conditioning etc). But then we also get groupings such as Koppojutsu (Koto Ryu, Gyokushin Ryu, Kumogakure Ryu, some accounts I have seen of Togakure Ryu's classification, and I would agree with that one), and Kosshijutsu (Gyokko Ryu, sometimes Togakure Ryu as well), Taijutsu (Shinden Fudo Ryu, Togakure Ryu, refering to it's system as Ninpo Taijutsu, Asayama Ichiden Ryu, and others), Yoroi Kumiuchi, and a few others. And just because two arts use the same or similar names doesn't mean they have similar characteristics....

There is also a large range of weapons taught, primarily from the Kukishin and Kukishinden Ryu, although some come from Togakure Ryu, a few from Kumogakure Ryu, and a few others from other systems, such as Manriki Gusari being brought over from Masaki Ryu and integrated into Gyokko Ryu. 

The weapons formally taught in the scroll material from these arts include various staff weapons (Rokushaku Bo, Yonshaku Jo, Sanshaku Bo/Hanbo, Te Giri Bo), swords (Shinobi Gatana, Katana, Tachi, Kodachi), pole arms (Yari, Kama Yari, Naginata, Bisento), Shuriken, Shako (hand claws), Jutte, and others. Some weapons not covered in the scrolls formal techniques themselves, but still taught include Kyoketsu Shoge, Kusari Gama, Chigiriki, Nagamaki, Nito Ken (although the Jinen Ryu has formal techniques for this), Kunai, and many more. Add to all of this most schools teaching modern weapons, such as knife, pistols, walking canes, and many more, really only limited by the instructors skill and experience.

So that pretty much covers the physical technical syllabus. As to your question about learning the stealth and concelament side of things, well, that will depend on the instructor in question. The information is there, as part of the Togakure Ryu scroll, and it is something that I have taught myself late last year. However, it was taught more for entertainment value, and isn't really taught often. We have taken the concept into modern times, though, and taught such things as anti-surveilance (to avoid being "marked" by criminals looking for a victim) and more. So it's there, but don't expect it to be focussed on.

There are many "fundamentals" to the arts, particularly as each organisation takes it's curriculuum from so many sources. The most well-known are things such as the Kihon Happo and Sanshin no Gata, there are many others, and these are all only able to be learnt from an instructor. So I won't really give a description here, as words can't really do it. They are as much about getting the pinciples and feeling of the art as they are just getting the physical movements.

How long does it take? Oh, the age old question. Honestly, it takes as long as it takes. Don't ever look to rush these things, as you will miss all the subtleties that would get you to that level. Depneding on the organisation, each with very different ranking systems and criteria, different level will be reached in different amounts of time, and with different levels of skill in different areas. The important thing is to start, and then keep going. If you do that, then the rest looks after itself, so don't worry.

Hope this has made some sense to you. Any more questions, just ask.


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## DocWard

I appreciate the information. You've presented it in a concise, non-biased manner that has helped quite a bit. I have been contemplating taking the jump into "ninjutsu" via the Bujinkan school about half an hour from me. This makes it even more inviting.

I will admit that I like the thought of learning some stealth concepts / techniques. I think they would have been quite helpful in the days before heavy body armor ruled my military career, now I am not so sure, but certainly could be useful for other legitimate purposes. The anti-surveillance component would be very useful in these modern times.

Thanks again.


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## ElfTengu

Also remember that 'Ninjutsu' is primarily a term which continues to be used for marketing purpose but is only really used by practitioners on forums like this. We pactitioners tend to use the term 'taijutsu' (prefixed with a silent 'budo' or 'ninpo') and again, 'taijutsu' is a generic term covering everything that we do and not just limited to the 'unarmed' apects like it says in the books. Yes, unarmed is taijutsu, but so is all of the kenjutsu, bojutsu and everything else, as well as the 'taijutsu' which is the unarmed aspects, but in the unarmed sense it is a word that equates with many others in Japanese, such as jujutsu, yawara, etc, and there are several historically legitimate schools that have nothing to do with us who use the term 'taijutsu' which is not limited to use within the 'X-kans' (Bujin, Genbu and Jinen).

We don't do much 'stealth' where I train, apart from the fact that 'stealth' is an aspect during actual fighting, as in doing the unseen etc and not telegraphing your attacks, especially against a, stronger, better one-on-one fighter than yourself, which you should pretty much assume is everyone.

As for gradings and black belts, everyone is fixated on them until they reach black belt and they are a damn liar if they claim otherwise, or they have forgotten or programmed themselves to self-deny such a thing. I am in no hurry for whatever dan grade comes next but I was desperately hungry for each grade prior to shodan, and if that made me train harder then perhaps it wasn't such a bad thing. Some of my juniors are now the same rank as me or close behind, and nowadays my struggle is to stay ahead of them in terms of skill, with rank being an arbitrary part of that but not as important as trying not to look/be crap alongside people who are meant to be junior to me!

If you can passably demonstrate most of the Ten Chi Jin Ryaku No Maki (even if you forget much of the terminology, as it is the physical aspects that needs to be absorbed, far more importantly than a bunch of foreign words) and can spontaneously call upon what you have learned into your everyday taijutsu training and any altercations where violence is unavoidable, then you are probably worthy of wearing a black belt, although it is your teacher's place to decide this, and a good teacher will not be rushed into grading people prematurely to satisfy their own ego.


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## fudoshinbudo

When it comes down to it. It's your ability...natural talent and hard work that determine your level...not your rank. Eventhough in the past when there wasn't 11th dan to 15th dan. It's more important to train hard and have it reflect. I rather be the best Sandan than a Judan that looks pretty bad.


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## ElfTengu

fudoshinbudo said:


> When it comes down to it. It's your ability...natural talent and hard work that determine your level...not your rank. Eventhough in the past when there wasn't 11th dan to 15th dan. It's more important to train hard and have it reflect. I rather be the best Sandan than a Judan that looks pretty bad.


 
And one of things I have also learned is that what 'looks' 'bad', can actually be 'good'. There's a lot of smoothness, showing off fancy techniques and focus on aesthetics at present, but none of this reflects the chaos of real violence, and it is ridiculous that we should have to look to 'sport' martial arts to experience some degree of this chaos.


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## Jean-Yves

I have found that the fact that there are no kata involved I am able to appreciate other arts  more. I look at the footwork, angles, basic techniques etc. I've become more open minded.


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## Chris Parker

Hate to tell you this, Jean Yves, but the method of transmission for Ninjutsu (as well as pretty much all classical Japanese systems) is kata. But what is refered to as a kata in Ninjutsu is what other arts may refer to simply as a technique. These kata (which simply means "form", or "shape") are listed in the Densho, or transmission scroll, for want of a better translation, and this is a major part of how the art is passed down (the other side being the kuden, or oral transmission, in other words, what isn't written down...).

Each of the various systems within the various schools (Bujinkan, Genbukan, Jinenkan etc) have their own scrolls, each detailing a number of kata. To deal with the main ones, we have:

Gyokko Ryu Kosshijutsu, divided into
    - Kihon Gata (not strictly speaking a part of the scroll proper, but often taught), which includes the Sanshin no Gata/Gogyo Gokei no Gata, the Kihon Happo (divided up into Moto Gata and Torite Gata), and Muto Taihenjutsu, 
    - followed by the Jo Ryaku no Maki (12 kata - 9 for the section proper, and an additional three kata in a section refered to as Shime Waza, essentially defences against rear grabs), which Hatsumi Sensei restructured as Ten Ryaku no Maki in 2000, 
    - then the Chu Ryaku no Maki (eight kata, starting to deal with short weapons, and introducing skills of intuition), 
    - and the Ge Ryaku no Maki, renamed Jin Ryaku no Maki in 2000 (a series of eight kata dealing with muto dori).

Koto Ryu Koppojutsu, divided into 
    - Kihon Gata (kamae, a few basic fists and applications), 
    - then the scroll proper starts with the Shoden no Gata (18 techniques), 
    -Chuden no Gata (12 kata, focusing on attacking patterns), 
    - Okuden no Gata (another 12, again with the focus on attacking, but adding in defences against short weapons), 
    - then Hekito no Gata (a series of 8 muto dori patterns).

Shinden Fudo Ryu features two scrolls, the main one taught in the Bujinkan is the Dakentaijutsu, which consists of 
    - Ten no Gata (8 kata), 
    - Chi no Gata (8 kata, focusing on muto dori, and seated combat ["Earth" patterns]), 
    - and Shizen Shigoku no Gata (12 kata). 
The other scroll, taught in the Genbukan and the Jinenkan, is the Jutaijutsu, or Taijutsu curriculum. 
    -It is also three sections, Shoden Gata (16 kata), 
    - Chuden Gata (11 kata), and 
    - Okuden Gata (which features 8 formal kata, with each having up to 5 formal henka, or variations).

The two big ones are the Hontai Takagi Yoshin Ryu Jutaijutsu and the Kukishinden Ryu Happo Biken. Takagi Ryu has a very large syllabus, and the exact way it is taught and the scroll is structured varies to a great degree from branch to branch. This is the Bujinkan/Jinenkan version, the Genbukan follows a different lineage.

It begins with the Shoden no Maki, split into Omote Gata (16 kata, with the focus on the essential strategies of the school, and seated combat) and the Ura Gata (20 kata, often being variations on the themes introduced in the Omote Gata). 
This is typially followed by a section technically outside of the scroll proper, the Eri Jime no Gata, a series of 8 constricting kata. 
Next is the Chuden no Maki, split into Sabaki Gata (10 kata) and Tai Gata (15 kata).
This is followed by the Okuden no Maki, again split into two sections, the Shirabe Gata (15 kata) and the Moguri Gata (11 kata). 
Then, to confuse matters, some teach the  next section as Daisho Sabaki (14 kata for movement while wearing two swords), others start with the Muto Dori Gata (which could have 7 kata, or 13 kata, depending on whose version you are following!). Personally, I go for the Muto Dori first (the 13 kata version), then the Daisho Sabaki.

The other big one is the Kukishinden Ryu, which features various scrolls for
    - unarmed (Dakentaijutsu Yoroi Kumiuchi - Shoden no Kata [9 kata], Chuden no Kata [12 kata], Sabaki no Kata [12 kata], Okuden no Kata [12 kata], and Shirabe Moguri no Kata [12 kata]), 
    - various staff weapons (Hanbo Sanshakubojutsu - Kihon [6 kata], Shoden [8 kata against short sword], Chuden [4 kata against long sword], Okuden [3 kata against long sword]; Yonshakujojutsu - different groups will have different scrolls, such as Shoden Koshiki no Gata [9 kata], Kutsu no Ho [9 kata], or Kuji no Kata [9 kata]; Rokushakubojutsu - again, various groups will teach various different scrolls, but the most common is Kihon [4 kata], Keiko Sabaki Kata [25 kata], and sometimes Shoden no Gata [9 kata], Chuden no Gata [9 kata], Okuden no Gata [9 kata]),
    - polearms (Binaginatajutsu - Kihon [5 kata], Binaginatajutsu [9 kata]; Bisentojutsu [9 kata]; Sojutsu - Kaisetsu Gata [9 kata], Gokui Gata [9 kata], and Menkyo Kaiden Hencho Gata [9 kata], and sometimes an additional section of Keiko Gata [2 kata],
    - sword arts (Bikenjutsu [20 kata], Kodachijutsu [3 kata], Juppo Sessho Jutte no Kata [5 kata])

This brings us to Togakure Ryu, probably the weirdest structure of any of them.... It is made up of various sections, namely
    - Santo Tonso no Gata (primarily unarmed against grabs and weapons, as well as groups [9 kata])
    - Ukemi no Gata (Shuko against sword [6 kata])
    - Hiden no Gata (intuition techinques [4 kata])
    - Shinobi Gaeshi (techinques for when discovered [2 kata])
    - Shinobi Biken (sword techniques [17 kata]).

So, as you can see, the various groups do teach kata, just not the same way you may see in a karate school, for example. The above list, of course, does not include a large number of variations, kuden techniques, or many more. In fact, learning the above is what I would only consider a good start....


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## bwindussa

Excellent post! Very concise and informative.  As for my experience, I was taught in Togakure and Mr. Parker hit the nail on the head. In addition we were taught a lot of outdoor movement rules and stealth/camoflage and firearms. We had campout trainins weekends every month and week long summer camps.  Let me say though that my instructor was in the Green Berets and he always made sure we understood which place that training came from.

Thanks again Mr. Parker.

Brad


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## Chris Parker

Well, it should be noted that the kata themselves are not the entire scrolls. The "outdoors" and walking methods you refered to are taught classically in the scrolls of the Togakure Ryu, Kukishinden Ryu, and others, the scrolls also including lineage lists (kazu), and sometimes allegorical or historical stories of the ryu, although this is also often passed down as kuden.

Many instructors who have not been privy to the classical teachings of such often look to alternate sources, or simply look to them for a more practical approach (by that I mean that to know which flowering plants in Japan make good medicines is not particularly useful if I am in outback Australia... but knowledge of Australian Aboriginal bushcraft can be extremely handy should I find myself stuck somewhere). Additionally, a lot of the information isn't taught these days as there is little need. Knowing how to predict the weather for the right time to lay siege to a castle isn't really needed, as we now have the weather channel.

There are also other concepts, weapons, traditions, and teachings listed, but not being formal kata in the way that they are not techniques. For example, Togakure Ryu teaches the use of Shinodake, a breathing tube for hiding underwater, as well as various silent swimming methods, including silent entry and exit into water, the Kumogakure Ryu teaches the use of Ippon Sugi Nobori, a tube with spikes around it, and a looped rope through it, used to aid in the climbing of trees, as well as as a weapon (a similar origin to the shuko/ashiko of Togakure Ryu), and Shinden Fudo Ryu Jutaijutsu includes a section in the Okuden Gata known as Suichu Shiai no Waza Moguri Gata, or Methods for Fighting in Water, Submerged Patterns, which gives a range of guiding principles for, you guessed it, fighting in water.

This is why I said that learning all the formal techniques (kata) is really only a good beginning....


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## Kajowaraku

Well Chris, most informative, as usual . You do seem to have left out one of the most important things one can learn from the diligent practice of ninpo: patience. The patience to keep trying to get something right, despite the fact you get "hmm...almost, needs more practice" more than anything else, But also the patience to be willing to take much longer to progress in rank. And I guess also the patience required to be mentally tranquil when facing of against an opponent, but also patience with others. But patience is also patiently enduring, continuing the path ahead with no heed for setbacks or obstacles. When facing an obstacle: find a solution but nomatter what: keep going. Ninpo Ikkan.

If I for myself should state the most important thing I learned from Ninpo, I guess it would probably be patience and endurance. I've come a long way, but I can honestly say the diligent training of traditional martial arts made me a more complete - and much calmer - person.


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## Chris Parker

Ha, yeah. But I was refering more to the curriculum taught in the classical systems themselves, rather than things like patience. That I consider a part of the seishin teki kyoyo, the personal development attained through honest, sincere, hard training and study. So it's an essential side benefit, you won't necessarily be "taught" patience, but if you don't learn it, you really won't get very far! After all, it is right there in the name, so people can't say they haven't been forewarned....


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## Cryozombie

Chris Parker said:


> Knowing how to predict the weather for the right time to lay siege to a castle isn't really needed, as we now have the weather channel.



Hey man, as a Motorcyclist, I can tell you that the weather channel is mostly wrong.  And as a result, I am often wet and soggy.  Heh.


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## Chris Parker

Ha, okay, fine, you can have the old knowledge then....

Watch the way birds are flying. Check the colour of the sky at dusk and dawn. Recognise patterns in the wind. Watch the way leaves are turned in certain directions, or hiding away from the elements. Oh, and if the sky is full of really dark clouds, pack an umbrella.

Happy?


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## Cryozombie

Chris Parker said:


> Ha, okay, fine, you can have the old knowledge then....
> 
> Watch the way birds are flying. Check the colour of the sky at dusk and dawn. Recognise patterns in the wind. Watch the way leaves are turned in certain directions, or hiding away from the elements. Oh, and if the sky is full of really dark clouds, pack an umbrella.
> 
> Happy?



Yep.


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## Supra Vijai

Chris Parker said:


> Oh, and if the sky is full of really dark clouds, pack an umbrella.



hahahaha this has seriously made my night! Only problem with living in Melbourne though is that the weather doesn't like to behave and always do as it originally indicated!


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## ElfTengu

Chris Parker said:


> Oh, and if the sky is full of really dark clouds, pack an umbrella.


 
But make sure it is *this* umbrella:

http://www.firebox.com/product/2616/Samurai-Umbrella?via=ser


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## DuskB4Dawn

I think stealth in ninjutsu is present in alot of its kata. like concealing your intentions. suprising your enemy in unexpected ways. they also teach ways of stealth walking in the traditional school like Togakure Ryu etc.
I have yet to have trained this in class. but my sensei has made mention that he will be teaching this at some point.

If you like doing things stealthy than ninjutsu is a stealthy type of martial art. If you just like creeping around in the shadows only than you may be disappointed.


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## Rayban

This was repeated and I haven't worked out how to delete yet


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## Rayban

My understanding of stealth so far is (as DuskB4Dawn said) hiding your intentions and blending in.  Acting like a drunk around a bar is much more stealthy then hiding behind a barrel dressed in a black hood.

By the way, I love that brolly


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## Chris Parker

The idea of strategies being "hidden" within the techniques, well that could probably be said of most systems, to be honest. I'm not sure of many that announce what they're going to do before attacking someone.... well, maybe Kendo ("Do! Do! Men! Kote! Men! Do!")....


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## Supra Vijai

Chris Parker said:


> The idea of strategies being "hidden" within the techniques, well that could probably be said of most systems, to be honest. I'm not sure of many that announce what they're going to do before attacking someone.... well, maybe Kendo ("Do! Do! Men! Kote! Men! Do!")....



Sorry, do you mean the Kendoka actually call out their moves before doing them? To put it into perspective, it would be like us calling out "Daijodan! Seigan! Kasumi!" etc before taking up the posture? Why is this?


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## Yoshin9

That is correct, it is part of the sport to show that you are hitting the area that you are targeting; it also shows spirit. You wouldn't do it in a real sword fight but Kendo is not kenjutsu!


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## Supra Vijai

With no disrespect mean to Kendoka, in terms of sporting analogies, sounds a bit like Babe Ruth calling out where he was going to hit the ball before doing it. It's a confidence thing for the person making call too if I'm not mistaken in that case?


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## oaktree

This is why they call out the spots they hit:



> It must be accompanied by proper kiai. The kendoka must shout loudly, calling out the name of his target: "Men!" "Kote!" "Do!" or "Tsuki!" This means that the kendoka must hit what he aims at, not accidentally get something


 http://oregonstate.edu/groups/kendo/dojo/shiai.html



> For an attack to be successful, the _shinai_must strike the specified target soundly, the contact by the _shinai_must happen simultaneously with the attacker's foot connecting with floor, and the _kend&#333;ka_must execute a spirited and convincing _ki-ai_ (&#27671;&#21512;?)in co-ordination with the strike.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kendo

As you see it is not they are calling the spot before they hit they are calling the spot as they hit.


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## DuskB4Dawn

Chris Parker said:


> The idea of strategies being "hidden" within the techniques, well that could probably be said of most systems, to be honest. I'm not sure of many that announce what they're going to do before attacking someone.... well, maybe Kendo ("Do! Do! Men! Kote! Men! Do!")....



in other martial arts. it doesn't involve the survival aspect. and the mentality of being able to take down the enemy fast and move on
i really dont see this in other martial arts
and also with weaponry how to conceal your weapon and have a suprise attact.
isn't ninjutsu suppose to be more covert and stealthy ?


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## Chris Parker

Concealed weapons are common in arts from all around the world, karate for instance includes, in some systems, weapons such as Teiko, basically a form of over-grown knuckledusters. They are easily concealable. There are also a large range of "hidden" weapons in many samurai systems as well as in other arts. In terms of the survival aspects, there are a number of systems that include their own approach to that concept (different from Ninjutsu, but survivalist aspects none-the-less), such as Systema. Same with the idea of taking someone down fast and moving on, you'll find that most systems so this at their heart, and high level practitioners can demonstrate that in most arts.

Exactly how Ninjutsu approaches these concepts is what makes it it's own unique art, though.


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