# Mosin Nagants.. best rifle deals in America today



## AC_Pilot (Feb 9, 2005)

I just sorted thru (4) M91-30 Russian Tula arsenal 7.62 x 54 bolt actions and found one nearly new 1937 version with absolutely 99.5% condition shiny barrel.. out the door Price, for this sturdy and very powerful rifle, with original:

Bayonet
Oiler bottle with double compartments for lube and cleaning solution
Double belt pouch for stripper clips/ammo
4 piece tool and cleaning kit
Sling

*Less than $87.00 including tax!!* 

Anyone else here into collecting/shooting these Russian, Romanian, Finnish, Chech rifles?

I use the Chech 148 grain silvertip steel core sniper ammo.. very accurate and since I get it wholesale in the galvanized tins, very inexpensive and has amazing penetration on hard surfaces..

I am planning to handoad a softpoint deer or wild boar load in the future. There's plenty of brass and bullets for reloaders now in this caliber.

Here's a great site for identifying these weapons. Over 10 million have been made and there is a lot to learn. I have used it extensively to learn all the arsenals and proof marks and the best guns to collect.. http://7.62x54r.net/


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## AC_Pilot (Feb 10, 2005)

Upon looking thru the proof marks I discovered my 1937 Tula was sent to the Ukraine (Maybe was used in the mass government killings of unarmed Ukranian Christians there, we'll never know) 

It was rebarrelled and completely arsenal refinished and rebuilt. After cleaning the barrel it looks to be 100%... with a bore light you cannot even look in there it's so bright and shiny. I doubt it had more than sighting in rounds fired, then cleaned and mothballed. It's perfect except for a few storage scuffs on the wood finish.. even the stock is a new Ukranian replacement. What a deal! :supcool:


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## psi_radar (Feb 10, 2005)

Where'd ya purchase it? Is the 7.62 x 54 basically a .308?


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## AC_Pilot (Feb 10, 2005)

Believe it or not I bought mine at the local Big 5 sporting goods store :uhyeah:  They are selling like hotcakes I am told, they had 5 when I called one evening and the next morning just four. Of course whoever bought that one was not savvy enough to ask to inspect all they had at the store.. The other cartons were unopened, and one other rifle in those boxes was nice but had a small gouge in the stock and the bore was not fully 100%..at least without a good cleaning, hard to tell.. but it was nice anyway for the price. If you go to look at some, bring a bore light or LED Photon 2 (that's an item on each of my keychains anyway) and a good cleaning kit, solvent and some hand wipes. You'll thank yourself in the future if you find a cherry like this one.. and you'll remember the other ones that were not as nice.. I'm still gloating over this excellent, cherry rifle. It's going to hang with my growing collection of Enfield 303s and other Nagants, on the stone wall of my den/dojo/arms room. I will fully sight it in with whatever load it will have dedicated to it. I may use only non corrosive handloaded ammo in this one, it's just too nice a barrel.. and I am still hunting other additions to my collection.. I want shorty M38 and a shorty M44 Mosin Nagant, next.


This round is more powerful than a 30-06 and it looks a lot like a 303 British cartridge.. it has a rim, the rifle bores are .310 to .311 usually, and the bullets are .311 diameter, the same as the AK 47, 7.62 x 39 round. 

The 7.62 x 54R is also the standard light machine gun and Dragunov sniper rifle, com-block round. It is sufficient for elk or other big game hunting if that tells you anything. (with the right hunting bullet of course) Here's a very helpful 7.62 x 54R military ammunition info/ID page http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinAmmo.htm
Regards,
 Steve


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## Spookey (Feb 11, 2005)

Dear Sir,

I highly recommend the Mosin Nagant as a supurb rifle with moderate to long range accuracy. Pricing is wonderfully low, ammo is highly available and affordable, and the gun is simple and sturdy to boot!

I would highly recommend looking into getting a Curio & Relic (C & R) license from the federal government. They are cheap ($30.00 annually) and will allow you to purchase at extremely low prices from places like Shotgun News.

The SKS rifle is yet another "cheap quality rifle" which is available freely!


God's Blessings,
Spookey


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## psi_radar (Feb 11, 2005)

I'll probably pick one of those up at some point. I regret not buying a Garand back when I was a teenager and saw them in sporting goods stores for under $200... 

I like the idea of the 7.62 x 54. I love my m77 30.06 for elk hunting but after 200-300 yards the ballistics drop significantly with the heavier bullets I prefer. An an M-N might be a good spare rifle for the truck if I move to terrain that requires 200+ distances . What kind of work would be necessary to mount a scope?


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## AC_Pilot (Feb 11, 2005)

PSI.. that's the good news.. there's an inexpensive Long Eye Relief Weaver type scope mount for these guns, it's simply a Weaver rail that replaces the iron sight leaf.. it's about $15 for the rail, and you'll need a LER scope and the rings too. Contact me if you want the rail mount or other goodies, I sell them all. I have installed a mount on my Finnish Security forces M28 Nagant, it has a very accurate heavy barrel and I'll let you know how that turns out. I'll be installing a 3 x 9 or a 4 x 12 LER scope, not sure yet. 

The 7.62 x 54 is easily a 500 yard round, the bullet drop at that range is about 55 inches average. 

In the meantime, now's the time to get out there and start looking for new condition bargains.. the big flood of imported Nagants is on!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Spookey, please don't take this as a flame, I'm sure you're trying to help and I am guessing you're a fine fellow, a collector of military weapons,  but C & R gets you directly involved with the BATF.. without a doubt this is my most despised federal agency, one that regularly violates US Citizens rights, and has murdered quite a few of us too, so I'll pass on any voluntary association with them and just pay a few more bucks for each gun for private no paperwork transfers or gunshop paperwork buys.. A C & R is just not something I want or need, but for some people it's the cat's meow, I guess


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## Spookey (Feb 11, 2005)

Dear Sir,

After the conduct of the BATF regarding Randy Weaver and David Koresh, I can agree more!

I am not a holder of a C & R either. I was simply putting the info out there. Best wishes and success. You can purchase Mosin Nagants, Mausers, SKS, and other variations of what were once service weapons at the local pawn shop or have your local arms dealer order them straight out and transfer them over for a generally small fee...

Glad to here im not the only "weirdo" on the forums.

Spookey


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## AC_Pilot (Feb 15, 2005)

Today I added a Russian Izhevsk arsenal manufacture, M91/30, "hex" receiver, arsenal refinished gun.. (with original perfect barrel+bore!) manufactured/date marked  *1925* with all matching numbers with a few professional arsenal worked minor stock repairs to the original early stock. Perfect mechanical condition and function, still tight like a new gun! The trigger is exceptional and light/crisp. Same price, *less than $87 !!*

I'm expecting this one to be a tack driver! The collection continues to grow :uhyeah:


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## AC_Pilot (Feb 18, 2005)

My lady and I are going hunting M38s and M44s this weekend at various locations.. same price, $87!! These are the short, later era versions of the M91 Mosin Nagants. it is said that a 3 foot diameter fireball will issue from these shorter barrels, at night!

I just slugged both of the M91/30s and they both came out 310 to 311, so they will be fine with the Chech silvertip steel core ammo I have stocked up on. 

I also will be making up "gallery" loads with .310 round balls, for indoor range shooting and training new shooters.


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## KenpoTex (Feb 19, 2005)

I've got an M-44, nice gun although I don't care for the permanent bayonet-lug.  I can definately vouch for the fireball, the first time I fired the thing in low-light conditions I was very surprised.


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## GAB (Feb 19, 2005)

Hi,

I went by a Big 5 after reading this post..Barrels were bad, as in horrible...
To much corrosive ammo and not cleaned properly...

I found an M-4 Bayonet not in to bad of shape, I asked the guy how long he had had it??? He said it had been in the case since he came to work in 2000...I was really surprised...

Nice letter opener...

Regards, Gary


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## GAB (Feb 19, 2005)

AC_Pilot said:
			
		

> My lady and I are going hunting M38s and M44s this weekend at various locations.. same price, $87!! These are the short, later era versions of the M91 Mosin Nagants. it is said that a 3 foot diameter fireball will issue from these shorter barrels, at night!
> 
> I just slugged both of the M91/30s and they both came out 310 to 311, so they will be fine with the Chech silvertip steel core ammo I have stocked up on.
> 
> I also will be making up "gallery" loads with .310 round balls, for indoor range shooting and training new shooters.


Hi,

Indoor range for Rifles? 

The only indoor ranges have been at are for Pistol and handguns. Some skeet loads but nothing much heavier then that...I live in CA that might be the problem....

Lead Balls? What is the fps on those? May be that is ok in an indoor setting???

Shooting the 308 will give that fire ball effect in a 310 barrel...Still ok if you are mixing lead and 308 I don't see much of a problem, but if you are mixing lead and 310 hopefully you really scour that bore...The pressures might get above the 46000 pp. 

I am not familiar with the round personally, but I have read a lot about it...
Been around for along time, the best bullet in my opinion would be 150gr.
When you get heavier they don't perform as well on big game as you might want...I read that about it in my reloading stuff...

I would never shoot at anything but targets with the steal core or maybe rabbits. That is a military round not a hunting round in my opinion....

Regards, Gary


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## Jibbler (Feb 19, 2005)

i love my Mosin i got the same deal as you did it shots awsome looks sweet and ammo is $2.00 for 20 just becaurful when using the adjustuble sights it gos up in increments of 100 meters not 10 meters like we tought it did we where shoting for 66 meters but where really aiming at 660 and we wondered why we missed the target dam i am dumb.


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## AC_Pilot (Feb 19, 2005)

Just got back and it's Saturday nite and I'm having some cold beer and gloating about my latest finds,:

Two overall 98% condition M44s, one dated 1945 and one 1946, both 99+% bores and almost 100% original bluing. 
Excellent original Ishevsk arsenal, Russian weapons *with bores so bright and clean after I took the time to clean them completely with a bore brush and hoppes #9 and lots of patches, that it blinded me to look down them at the Photon 2 keychain light. *There will be some work cleaning the cosmoline out of the disassembled rifle, these *were* heavily greased, but in truly sweet shape.

Do not judge the bores on these guns until you clean them completely. I am guessing that GAB saw the beater "counter bored" *war era* and dated weapons (M38s a M44s) that saw actual heavy combat in the winter war against the NAZIs. These are collectable and shootable but not beautiful and will have corrosion/pitting in the bores. The common counter boring usually restores their accuracy. The manufacture date usually tells it all on the M38 and M44 weapons.. wartime manufacture guns were issued and rode hard. the wartime M44s and M38s were $60 at Big 5 and I looked at them but was not interested at this time.. too many nice M91/30s and post war M44s to look at.

I also had two excellent 99 + % M91/30s held for me on layaway until they go on sale.. one early hex Tula receiver, one 1930s era Ishevsk round receiver.. Both are Ukraine arsenal rebuild marked and have new barrels.. the Tula hex has a flawless 100% barrel. The Ishevsk has tiny almost unnoticable pitting and is 99%. The Ishevsk will be a shooter.

Total time at the two stores we visited was about 3 hours of looking thru almost 20 guns and cleaning over half of the bores. I also use a live round inserted *bullet first into the muzzle*, to test for muzzle erosion. If you use a .308 Winchester round and it drops down to the case, swallowing up the bullet, the muzzle is eroded.. forget that gun for a shooter. I usually use a pulled bullet but I gave my last one the other day to a nice girl at another store so she can pick out a nice M91 or M44 for herself. This procedure is how you find treasures. Sometimes you get to meet nice pro gun young ladies that work there, and that makes the whole process more pleasant. :ultracool 

Call your Big 5 and ask when the next shipment comes in.. then show up with a cleaning kit and hand wipes and take a few minutes to completely check out the guns. You'll be glad that you took a few minutes when you enjoy many years with your powerful and reliable, collectable find.

As to the gallery loads, they are loaded with pistol type powders and were a very common load in England for small game and small gallery shooting. indeed they can be fired safely at any pistol range, as they are less powerful than most common pistol rounds.. whether the managers will let you do this is another matter. They may be afraid you will insert a full rifle round. My loads will be with a .310 round ball in a .310 to .311 bore, perfectly safe at + - subsonic pistol velocities. http://guns.connect.fi/gow/arcane1.html 
The exact type of load I use is about a quarter of the way down this page... they call it the "cat's sneeze" http://guns.connect.fi/gow/QA2.html

The .308 bullets will be used in Finnish Mosins (they are the big problem in this regard) or other weapons that have a .308 or .309 bore. So far all my Russina weapons upon inspection seem to be .310 or .311.. I actually *slugged* (Ran a lead ball thru and then miked it) my first bring home rifles last week.
My lady and I are soon to build our new home (actually we are planning a modernized castle on our rural land) and in the basement we will have a complete gallery/pistol/rifle range. this is where we will shoot gallery loads, pistol loads, and test rifle rounds, rain or shine. yes, I will also have a complete and dedicated dojo in the tower :uhyeah: 

My handloads will be :

The gallery loads

A 110 to 130 grain spire point soft point at about 2800 to 3000 FPS

And I'll use the steel core silvertip military ammo for long range target shooting or anything serious. It's 147 grains and has awesome penetration. I have many bolt and semi auto battle rifles so these are mostly display and shooter weapons. I plan to collect as many as 30 of them for eventual display at the castle, in the great hall, turrets and the arms room. Just like a Scottish, German or English castle would display them.


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## AC_Pilot (Feb 21, 2005)

I am going to post some pictures of my Nagant finds at some point, on my server, mounted on my dojo/arms room wall, and I'll link it here for my fellow hoplophile's enjoyment. I'll also be displaying several Nagant revolvers from period Russia. These are 7 shot 30 caliber revolvers coming in now for as low as $80 wholesale, and they can fire .32 H & R magnum ammo, or with a cylinder swap, .32 ACP

In the meantime, if any of you buy surplus ammo for your rifles or handguns.. the Berdan non reloadable stuff, you had better consider it corrosive. Here's two ways to clean this stuff out, first my preferred method for range shooting, then a field expedients way to clean in hunting or combat situations:

Range method. Get out your thernos before you go shooting, fill it with the hottest water possible. if you have a tea pot use that to get boiling water ready.. fill the thermos up and add several tablespoons of dish detergent.. the hand dishwashing type. After shooting, pull the bolt and insert a funnel into the chamber (find small one with a long neck, and keep it in your shooting bag) and slowly pour about half the thermos contents into the funnel and therefore out the muzzle. Then use the bore brush and cleaning rod you also brought, running the brush thru several times. This is a good use for old worn out brushes. Then use half of what's left in the thermos, brush again, repeat one final time, blow the barrel out with compressed air (I have a small pancake compressor I bring along, or you can just use your "Superman" breath" to blow into the chamber end. The heat of the hot water will do the rest of the drying)  and then wait 1 minute for that drying action, and spray  silicone, Break free, or other penetrating product down the bore from the chamber end. Wipe excess off the muzzle, etc.. and take it home and give it a normal but complete cleaning. I also dissassemble the bolt to major components and clean it in the sink with hot water and dish detergent and a toothbrush, blow it dry, lube and re-assemble. if you'll do this your surplus treasures will be good for generations.

Field cleaning gear/supplies:
Carry your normal cleaning kit, solvent and action lube (I use Hoppes for the bore, two kinds in small plastic bottles, Hoppes #9 and Hoppes Copper solvent.. the latter is nasty stuff but very effective and removes copper traces that can trap corrosive stuff (primer salts) behind them, in the bore.. then I use the #9 to finish the cleaning job. I use synthetic motor oil (5-30 or 10-40, depending on ambient temperature. I use Royal Purple brand but Mobil is OK. One quart of each will last you the rest of your shooting life) for all my firearms lube these days.. many police depts use this for lube.. it's cheap and very effective. You'll need patches. Even cut up T-Shirts work great for patches. I just carry a few pre-cut patches, and a roll of a cut up portion of a t-shirt and can cut it up with my leatherman scissors for caliber, in the field. Final item you will need is an ammonia based household liquid cleaner.. like Windex. Carry a small bottle of this as well. That's 4 small bottles, or the Russian two compartment oiler and two small plastic bottles. You don't need the oil bottle full, half full is way more than enough. You'll always use more solvent than lube.

SO, items needed for your field kit:

Small bottles, 1 each, of:

*Hoppes #9 or your favorite flavor of basic bore cleaner
*
*Hoppes Copper solvent or similar*

*Windex*

*Your favorite lube. I would use a teflon type spray lube in sub zero temps but we don't get those temps here.*

*Cleaning rod, brush, patch holder*

*Cleaning patches and a piece/pieces  of cotton rag, from which a piece can be cut and used to wipe down the externals with some lube when you're clean and ready to go. *

I also always carry a Photon 2 in the field. The white version can pass as a short range flashlight and has many uses, one is a bore light. The white version can stay turned on for 3 days before the battery goes. Spare batteries are cheap and I always have several in my pack/kit. The same batteries power my Red Dot scopes. They are lithium and store for at least 10 years.

Tools: At all times, street or field I carry a Leatherman Wave. I have used my Leatherman tools so many times for every day tasks I lost count. In the field I also carry the bit adapter and the bits.. very helpful for weapon dissembly and auto/bike repairs, and more. My Enduros have a Leatherman Crunch stored in their tool kit as well, and since that's how I get around and pack my rifle off-road, that tool is always there too. For combat my pack also contains a Gerber Military tool, with the 4 interchangeable pliers/cutter heads. Very deluxe and useful. 

Procedure for field cleaning:
Pull the bolt. On the Nagant, you verify the weapon is empty, pull the bolt to the rear, pull the trigger and pull the bolt out. 

Dribble some of the Windex into the chamber end, and use the cleaning rod to insert a patch from the chamber end if you have a long rod. If you are using the weapon rod you'll have to go from the muzzle. Use plenty of Windex, and swab several times. Let it sit for one minute and then repeat. Use a fresh patch each time. This procedure gets rid of *most* of the salts. Any good ammonia based window cleaner will work.

Clean next with a patch soaked with Hoppes Copper solvent, follow the label instructions on the original bottle and give it time to work. This insures you have a swabbed out bore with no trapped primer salts

Then clean with a normal Hoppes #9 or what have you. Swab dry and wipe off the bolt face well with solvent..

Lube the bolt and go. Five minutes cleaning will save your nice bore, and allow you to shoot the awesome AP surplus or heavy copper/lead ball ammo for dirt cheap.

Regards,
Steve


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## 47MartialMan (Mar 6, 2005)

Yes, nice firearm for the price. SSSH-Prices are down because there is no demand or over-rated hype on them.


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