# Which Fighters are better, Pride or UFC?



## Dragon Fist (Apr 8, 2005)

If these two Organizations went head to head, which one do you guys thing will come up the winner in each weight class?



Heavyweight - Frank Mir or Andrei Arlovski (UFC) vs. Fedor Emelianenko (Pride)

Light Heaveyweight - Randy Couture (UFC) vs. Pride Champion
Middleweight - Evan Tanner (UFC) vs. Wanderlei Silva (Pride)
Welterweight - Matt Hughes (UFC) vs. Pride Champion


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## WilliamJ (Apr 8, 2005)

First, Silva is a 205 so in UFC terms he's a LHW. Pride has less weight divisions than UFC.

Overall talent and depth Pride owns UFC. Randy and Lidell could hang with their Pride counterparts but other than them and maybe Hughes it's not very close. And in the HW division it's just ridiculous. CroCop, Nog, Fedor vs Arlovski, Mir and Syliva?


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## RSJ (Apr 8, 2005)

PRIDE fighters are better by miles, with the exception of Couture. Fedor, Nog, Cro Cop at HW are all about 6x better than Arlovski or Mir, as much as I like Arlovski. At MW (205 or less) Silva, Henderson, Sakuraba, Arona, Rampage and Igor Vov are better than Belfort, Tito, Liddel or any other LHW excluding Couture. The UFC talks a lot of trash about how it's the best, talent-wise. 'Best fighters in the world' ? No.


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## JKogas (Apr 8, 2005)

Wow!  I don't know about Arlovski as not being as talented as some of the Pride guys....

That guy is really showing me something.  Especially with the relative ease with which he handled Silvia.  I'd like to see him actually matched up with some Pride guys before writing him off.

-John


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## JDenz (Apr 9, 2005)

Ya I think Pride has heavyweight no doubt.  Arlovski is the only one close in the UFC heavys.  I think Light heavy weight is pretty even there are alot of arguements to be made at that level.  That is all Pride really has so I would say that UFC owns everything lighter.


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## Semaj (Apr 18, 2005)

Didnt Jackson pretty convincingly beat Liddell when they fought in pride?  I'd be afraid to watch either get in with Silva...


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## JDenz (Apr 19, 2005)

diffrent styles = diffrent fight


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## upstanding_dragon (Apr 19, 2005)

Hi all,

I don't think Fedor would have any problems with any of the UFC heavyweights, Arlovski being the only one that would be a decent match up.

I think Randy might have a chance against Wanderlei so long as he doesn't go toe to toe, and use his wrestling and ground control, but I think Wanderlei is in a league of his own, when it comes to UFC vs Pride.

I'd like to see Chuck in Pride again, thats what he wants, but he didn't do too well last time, Overeem rocked him loads of times, and of course Quinton Jackson put him away, would be interesting to see him fight Wanderlei, but Chuck gets caught with too many punches in most of his fights, and he can't afford to take any if fighting Wanderlei.

Stefan

http://www.networkofmartialarts.co.uk


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## sgtmac_46 (Apr 20, 2005)

upstanding_dragon said:
			
		

> Hi all,
> 
> I don't think Fedor would have any problems with any of the UFC heavyweights, Arlovski being the only one that would be a decent match up.
> 
> ...


Lets see if Chuck gets his shot.  I seem to remember everyone predicting another Couture victory.  The proof will be in the ring.  Lets see if Pride is willing to put up.


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## Semaj (Apr 20, 2005)

I cant imagien they wouldnt be.

 Chucks main chance is a punchers chance as in any fight , but the top guys in Pride are just ridiculously good.  he's going to need to be in better shape and better trained than ever, Silva is just that ridiculously good.  Although he does tend to enjoy trading more than he should.


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## JDenz (Apr 20, 2005)

Liddell matches up alot better agianst Silva then he does agianst rampage.  He is a counter puncher that could very easily drop him.  It would be an all out war, I hope Danna White makes it happen.  The only way Randy beats SIlva is in the cage.


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## Andrew Green (Apr 20, 2005)

I think Pride fans tend to write off UFC fighters a little too quickly.

 Yes, Chuck lost.  But that is the way the sport is, in any fight either fighter has a chance.

 Silva got blasted bad by Vitor, dominated by Tito,  yet he is considered the better fighter.  In Pride he is in a land of his own, but I do think that Randy and Chuck both have a shoot at beating him.  Just depends on who the card favour on that day.

 Where they fight will also make a difference.  Ring vs Cage is not the only rule change, and the rules are important in determining who will take it.  In Pride the Pride fighter has an advantage, in UFC the UFC fighter has the advantage.

 Liddell vs Silva would be a great fight, no matter where it happens.  Not one I would want to put money on either way.  But Liddell has to get credit for being willing to do it, and not only that, wanting to do it on their turf under their rules.

 Lets just hope that if it ever does happen, in either UFC or Pride it is a clear decission that doesn't end too quick.  If the home fighter wins a close decission it will be "biased judging" if it ends to quick it will be a work... etc...

 How are we going to end up with a mainstream sport if all the hardcore fans are screaming about works and unfair judging every time their guy loses?


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## JDenz (Apr 20, 2005)

That is the problem with Pride that they do have works and have had them in the past.  Even UFC is not immune to having works in the past.   Guys that have been following since the beginning know that there have been works in the past.  You are right on the any given day thought though.  I really think without the elbows and stuffing agianst the cage there is no way that Couture could beat Silva.


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## Andrew Green (Apr 20, 2005)

JDenz said:
			
		

> I really think without the elbows and stuffing agianst the cage there is no way that Couture could beat Silva.


 And with that Silva would have a rough time, especially considering he's not had to deal with that over in Pride...


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## JDenz (Apr 20, 2005)

not only that I think that Randy would have a hard time dealing with the down kicks and knees on the ground.


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## upstanding_dragon (Apr 20, 2005)

In regards to Wanderlei's defeats by Tito Ortiz and Vitor Belfort, I don't think either would have a chance against him now, he's improved himself so much since then.

Tito almost got knocked out by him, he beat with with his usual style, takedown, controlling, ground/pound, I think Wanderlei's ground game has increased a great deal now, and also his takedown defense.



The Vitor Belfort fight, great one, hats off to him, not to take anything away from him, he just flurried, and Silva was blinded and beaten, 27 seconds, thats fantastic, but I don't think he could repeat that.

Stefan

http://www.networkofmartialarts.co.uk


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## JDenz (Apr 20, 2005)

I pretty much agree in a ring wanderla would beat them both but in a cage tito might still beat him.  Also I think that Belfort is on top of his game he may still be able to beat Belfort.


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## Semaj (Apr 22, 2005)

I definately agree that lidell stacks up _MUCH_ better with silva.   Silva has a real tendency to trade, and get seriously caught, and that just begs to be knocked out from a Lidell.  Still, Silva has been hit by a lot of good clean shots from top guys and not dropped yet.

 Yet, Silva's ground game has improved leaps and bounds from where it was.  To think he is the same fighter he was back then is just silly.  Much like to assume Kosaka (Please be right on this one krollage) is a better fighter than Fedor because he beat him once back in the days.


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## JDenz (Apr 22, 2005)

it was Tsuyoshi Kohsaka, and Fedor just pounded him in the last Pride avenging his only loss.   Same thing with Couture, he had been in there with some serious Heavys and didn't get knocked out


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## Shogun (Apr 22, 2005)

I agree, wandy does like to trade. Mark Hunt, Kazushi Sakuraba, Yuki kondo, and others have caught him with good punches while trading. But, none of those guys are on par with Chuck's striking abilities. Chuck has KO'ed Ortiz, Sobral, white, Randelman, metzger, and couture. those are all standing KO's. those are the toughest Sumbitches there is! If he beat Wandy, there would be a great Triangle in that Quinton TKO'ed Chuck, but lost to Wanderlei.



KE


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## JDenz (Apr 22, 2005)

Ya Silva matches up great with Rampage.   It is a real bad matchup for quinton because silva strikes better and is better on the bottom then rampage is on top so he really can't finish him.   Where on the other hand Chuck and Silva are going to stand and trade and they are about equal on the feet I would say.


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## Shogun (Apr 22, 2005)

What is interesting about the match-up, is that in _almost_ any match, chuck is capable of dictating the pace of the fight. LIddell wrestled in division-1 for 3+ years, and has some of the best takedown defense out there. If he is losing the battle on his feet, he can take wandy down and hold him. Wandy is a BJJ black belt but never showed to be that good at back fighting. Chuck also has good submissions, as he has worked with Eddie Bravo and Cesar Gracie primarily. Then at any point chuck could stand up and blast him some more. The only weak point I can see in chucks game is overconfidence in his striking ability. he got rocked by Vernon white at UFC 49 by standing and trading, and Wanderlei is much more dangerous striker, simply because of his clinching abilities.


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## JDenz (Apr 22, 2005)

Silva is good off his back.  He looked good agianst Yosh and Hunt, Silva is as agressive on the ground and he is on the feet.  His greatest strength is his greatest weakness.  He also trains with Elvis on the ground  he is going to be able to but Chuck in danger if chuck is on top.   Plus both are real good at reversing postion and getting back to the feet.  This one would be a great fight.


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## sgtmac_46 (Apr 26, 2005)

Shogun said:
			
		

> I agree, wandy does like to trade. Mark Hunt, Kazushi Sakuraba, Yuki kondo, and others have caught him with good punches while trading. But, none of those guys are on par with Chuck's striking abilities. Chuck has KO'ed Ortiz, Sobral, white, Randelman, metzger, and couture. those are all standing KO's. those are the toughest Sumbitches there is! If he beat Wandy, there would be a great Triangle in that Quinton TKO'ed Chuck, but lost to Wanderlei.
> 
> 
> 
> KE


I agree.  Chuck can knock out anyone, anytime, anywhere, if they're silly enough to play his game.  If Wandy decides to trade, it only takes one hit from Liddell, and it's canvas time.  Of course Silva has improved his game considerably since he got jack-hammered by Belfort, so he could very well take it.  Either way, it'll be a heck of a fight, and I look forward to seeing it.


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## JDenz (Apr 26, 2005)

Silva and Chuck both get rocked alot it would be a great exciting fight.


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## OrangeLeopard (May 2, 2005)

Pride fighters are better but UFC is more fun to watch to me anyway. The UFC just looks more professional and i like the octagon. Pride looks cheap and boring almost, until they start fighting. I think UFC has more appeal. I think all of the pride fighters should fight in the UFC and UFC should move to pride.


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## Semaj (May 2, 2005)

I wasnt a big fan of the appearance of the pride ring.. but at the sametime,.. Pride has always seemed more professional to me... UFC seems to me to be more of the underground-type approach...


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## Knarfan (Jun 13, 2005)

Pride , especially the heavyweights . I'd love to see some of the top pride fighters in the octagon .


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## Josh (Jun 13, 2005)

Go Jeremy Horn!!!!


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## evenflow1121 (Jun 13, 2005)

Pride in my opinion, UFC has been on a downward spiral for me for a while now, and that little Shamrock fiasco a couple months back where he fought that no name guy and lost on Spike's Channel, yeah made me think back to my days of watching pro-wrestling.


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## Knarfan (Jun 14, 2005)

evenflow1121 said:
			
		

> Pride in my opinion, UFC has been on a downward spiral for me for a while now, and that little Shamrock fiasco a couple months back where he fought that no name guy and lost on Spike's Channel, yeah made me think back to my days of watching pro-wrestling.


Just to be fair to Shamrock , that guy just beat Tanner for the 185 championship . He is a great talant & fighter , but for some reason his name isn't as well known as others . Rich Franklin . He is a pretty exciting fighter , always puts on a good show .


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## JulesK (Jun 16, 2005)

GASP!!!!

 Franklin is NOT a no-namer!!! He is a being of greatness and rainbows and light!!!

 IMO, Silva would school Liddell, b/c like you said, sgtmac_46, 

 "Chuck can knock out anyone, anytime, anywhere, if they're silly enough to play his game."

 Despite his recent loss to Hunt, I TRULY doubt Silva would let Liddell control the pace of the fight. I'm also VERY curous to see how Horn/Liddell plays out..for pretty much the same reason--Horn is a MASTER at controlling the pace of the fight adn playing his own game. I'm also not the biggest Liddell fan, as you can probably tell. However, props to him and his career, which seems to be going very well.  

 That was all a little off-topic, though wasn't it? In terms of the initial question, I think that PRIDE is a much better organization, b/c they treat their fighters better. The appeal of the UFC is it's accessibility to the more common and lowly of us...we can see people we've trained with get in the Octagon and it's like we 're in there as well.  

 Many of the fighters in either organization have gone to the other, so comparing fighters to each other as representatire of the entire organization, is a little difficult 

 just my $.02


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## Knarfan (Jun 16, 2005)

JulesK said:
			
		

> GASP!!!!
> 
> Franklin is NOT a no-namer!!! He is a being of greatness and rainbows and light!!!
> 
> ...


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## nhbSDMF (Jun 16, 2005)

JulesK said:
			
		

> GASP!!!!
> 
> Franklin is NOT a no-namer!!! He is a being of greatness and rainbows and light!!!


and "chisled features" and a striking resemblance to Jim Carrey... lol...

Ok, here's my take:

HW: CroCop, Fedor, "Minotauro" Nogueira, Arlovski
LHW: Wanderlei Silva, Liddell, Couture, then maybe Rampage or Babalu??


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## JulesK (Jun 16, 2005)

No, actually, I AM a no-namer...but that's okay, 'cause that's where you start. 

 Mmmmm...Rcih Franklin....


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## Knarfan (Jun 16, 2005)

nhbSDMF said:
			
		

> and "chisled features" and a striking resemblance to Jim Carrey... lol...
> 
> Ok, here's my take:
> 
> ...


Good list . Definatly have to have Rampage there . You know your fighters & actors  .


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## Knarfan (Jun 16, 2005)

JulesK said:
			
		

> No, actually, I AM a no-namer...but that's okay, 'cause that's where you start.
> 
> Mmmmm...Rcih Franklin....


Good comeback ! I guess I deserved that :whip: . lol....


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## sgtmac_46 (Aug 22, 2005)

JulesK said:
			
		

> GASP!!!!
> 
> Franklin is NOT a no-namer!!! He is a being of greatness and rainbows and light!!!
> 
> ...


 At least we know the answer to part of this post.  Liddell took Horn to school, hammering Horn hard and never once allowing Horn to even truly be in the fight.  Horn didn't get to pace the fight his way, and he never even managed to take the fight to the ground, thanks to the fact that Chuck perfectly sprawled on him every time.  Chuck fought the fight he wanted, and Horn was forced to play Chuck's game as he didn't have any other option, failing every single time he tried to take Chuck down and keep him there.

In short, I still maintain Chuck Liddell is highly underrated by many of the hardcore MMA fans.  They decided Chuck couldn't beat Ortiz, and he did.  He couldn't beat Couture, and he did.  He definitely couldn't beat Horn, and he did.  None of the above fights went to a decision, they all involved each of these athletes getting knocked out (in two cases) and knocked nearly blind (in Horn's case).  

Chuck beats Rampage Jackson, and he zeros out his loses.  He beats Silva, and he's on top of the world.  Chuck's a juggernaut right now, and it's only a matter of time before Chuck or someone from Pride unify the UFC/Pride Titles (If Dana White and Pride allow it).  

Like him or hate him, Chuck Liddell isn't dodging anyone.


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## FearlessFreep (Aug 22, 2005)

I saw some Pride fight's last night for the first time (they were on Fox Sports Net here). Maybe small sample size but the fighters seemed to be quicker and more aggressive then the UFC fights I have seen. Their hands seem to move quicker and they seemed faster.

 I don;t know if it was a replay or not or how old it was, but one fight had Liddell aganst I think Jackson. I've seen Liddell in UFC fights and in all the fights I've seen he does really well. However, he looked a bit overmatched against Jackson. I only saw the second round but he looked tired. The fight ended when they went down, Jackson picked up Liddell and slammed him on his back into the mat and got on him and Liddell's corner through in the towel (Liddell was not moving on the ground)

 Note: I have nothing against Chuck Liddell...seems like a decent guy in interviews and the UFC fights I've seen him in he's done really well in, so this is not meant as a knock against him


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## tsdclaflin (Aug 22, 2005)

The real question should be which are better competitors?

As long as there are rules, it is not really fighting.


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## Dragon Fist (Aug 23, 2005)

FearlessFreep said:
			
		

> I only saw the second round but he looked tired.


I agree with you that he didn't seem like himself against Rampage Jackson. He seemed very tired


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## FearlessFreep (Aug 23, 2005)

_I agree with you that he didn't seem like himself against Rampage Jackson. He seemed very tired_

 I wonder how much of it is conditioning...I know Pride uses a ten minute first round.  I didn't see the first round but the commentators mentioned him looking tired after it.


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## kenpochad (Aug 23, 2005)

I like the UFC better, but I havent seen much of pride.
the ring is bigger in the UFC and i like that liddel said he wants silva
i would like to watch that


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## sgtmac_46 (Aug 29, 2005)

Honestly, I think the format may have as much to it as the fighters. A ring versus a cage changes the dynamics somewhat, as do the minutes in a round, etc. 

In Chuck Liddell's case, we may get to see how he does against Rampage in a rematch, if Pride will part with him. It should be interesting.  Last time they fought it was Pride rules, perhaps this time we'll see Liddell/Jackson II in the cage.


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## hwarang (Aug 30, 2005)

It depends what day of the week it is, Sometimes one fighter wins sometimes its the other


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