# Irish Stick Fighting Clips



## kidswarrior (Mar 15, 2008)

I find this an interesting practice. It was taught to Glen Doyle (also has a kung fu background) by his father, Greg Doyle.

http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=qpIIjrGuNtQ
http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=xEQv4guwcA4
http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=_blPpVxaLAs
http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=d43qH9w5Dow
http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=aDhDn8Y1xYg
http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=htxSmrJHnVk
http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=REvuqH8cRJc
http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=6p4Jp1he1uM


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## stone_dragone (Mar 15, 2008)

Thats some good stuff.  Nice find!


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## arnisador (Mar 15, 2008)

Neat! Looks like a weighted stick?


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## kidswarrior (Mar 15, 2008)

arnisador said:


> Neat! Looks like a weighted stick?


The shillelagh, or bata, is historically made with the root of the blackthorn bush as the 'knob' or handle. These will be lighter colored than the shaft of the stick. http://www.irishcultureandcustoms.com/AEmblem/Shillelagh.html But there are many other types of stock, too, as you can see from the clips, as well as the website (no relation to anyone in the clips as far as I know).


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## arnisador (Mar 15, 2008)

kidswarrior said:


> The shillelagh, or bata, is historically made with the root of the blackthorn bush as the 'knob' or handle. These will be lighter colored than the shaft of the stick. http://www.irishcultureandcustoms.com/AEmblem/Shillelagh.html



Ah, thanks!


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## chinto (Mar 18, 2008)

yes the European stick fighting was as developed as any in asia.
I have carried a black thorn walking stick as both a walking stick and a weapon in the bay aria.  I am an SCA trained fighter and could use it effectivaly and like the hanbo there are a limited number of ways to use a cane length fighting stick.
believe me a stick say 30 inches long used properly will shatter a femur !  ( the toughest  bone in the body to brake!!)


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## kidswarrior (Mar 18, 2008)

chinto said:


> believe me a stick say 30 inches long used properly will shatter a femur !  ( the toughest  bone in the body to brake!!)


So imagine what it will do to a wrist, forearm, inside of the shin, ankle, elbow, side of the face/head.  I think of my sticks (and cane) as my *anti-knife.* That 30 inches is a great stress reliever when we don't know what he might have hidden, or even after he pulls a blade (or brass knuckles)--we can reach him, but he can't reach us.


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## Archangel M (Mar 18, 2008)

Please dont take this as an affront, thats was some COOL stuff and the system shown is probably pretty effective, but I am always a bit suspicious of some of these "ethnic arts" that pop up every now and then. "The forgotten art of Native American knife fighting" and "the return of the obscure Eskimo art of seal bone combat". And so on. While Im shure many cultures had their fighting "systems" it seems to me like many people are looking for that "niche" in martial arts to exploit so they latch onto some obscure culture and/or weapons and hit the streets.

Again, not saying thats going on here, I am admittedly ignorant of the history, traditions and lineage of Irish "Martial Arts", just someting that makes me think whenever I see some new "traditional" art come to light.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Mar 18, 2008)

Here is one of his websites:  http://fightingfaction.com/

Personally I enjoyed the videos!


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## Langenschwert (Mar 18, 2008)

Archangel M said:


> Please dont take this as an affront, thats was some COOL stuff and the system shown is probably pretty effective, but I am always a bit suspicious of some of these "ethnic arts" that pop up every now and then.


 
True enough.  However, Glen Doyle is well-regarded.  IIRC, Bata is reasonably well-documented.  Of course there's stuff like STAV which is completely bogus from a historical standpoint.  If you do your research, you won't get taken in by a fraud.  For more info, Ken Pfrenger (I think) runs an e-list for bata and pugilism.

Best regards,

-Mark


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## kidswarrior (Mar 18, 2008)

Archangel M said:


> Again, not saying thats going on here, *I am admittedly ignorant of the history, traditions and lineage* of Irish "Martial Arts",


Yep, I'd say that's true. You might want to do a little checking before crapping on someone's art/practice/studio.



> ...just someting that makes me think whenever I see some new "traditional" art come to light.


This is not new. Yeah, Glen and his father Greg have their family slant, but the concept/history of shillelagh fighting goes back at least to the 1700s (without my research books in front of me, can't make a better guess than that). You could check out some of the works of John Hurley. They're pretty accessible, and very thorough. If you want a longer reference list, I can get it for you once I get home.


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## Archangel M (Mar 18, 2008)

Thats why I qualified my statement.


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## kidswarrior (Mar 18, 2008)

Archangel M said:


> Thats why I qualified my statement.


OK, no worries.  Thanks for stopping in to the thread.


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## ArmorOfGod (Mar 20, 2008)

I emailed Glenn Doyle last month and he told me that he is about to release some instructional dvd's.

AoG


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## Carol (Mar 20, 2008)

Langenschwert said:


> True enough.  However, Glen Doyle is well-regarded.  IIRC, Bata is reasonably well-documented.  Of course there's stuff like STAV which is completely bogus from a historical standpoint.  If you do your research, you won't get taken in by a fraud.  For more info, Ken Pfrenger (I think) runs an e-list for bata and pugilism.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> -Mark



Hey count me in as a skeptic too.

I mean...c'mon.  The Irish?  Able to _fight_?   

Ridiculous!

(Kidding!)

:lol2: :lol: :lol2:


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## kidswarrior (Mar 20, 2008)

Carol Kaur said:


> Hey count me in as a skeptic too.
> 
> I mean...c'mon.  The Irish?  Able to _fight_?
> 
> ...


Well, think about it like this. If you take away their (our ) drink, what else is there? Just leaves fighting.  So with that much practice, and throwing in the noggin-knocker stick aspect, the survivors are bound to get better, eh? 



ArmorOfGod said:


> I emailed Glenn Doyle last month and he told me that he is about to release some instructional dvd's.
> 
> AoG


Yeah, I can't wait. Should give those of us who use the stick some fresh ideas for rounding out our curriculum and practice.


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## Steel Tiger (Mar 24, 2008)

kidswarrior said:


> Well, think about it like this. If you take away their (our ) drink, what else is there? Just leaves fighting.  So with that much practice, and throwing in the noggin-knocker stick aspect, the survivors are bound to get better, eh?


 
Interesting that you say this.  The Doyle family style of Bata is called _Rince an Bhata Uisce Bheatha_ or Whiskey Stick Dance.  Not really that surprising when you think a bout it though.

I found the techniques interesting.  Different hand positions and movements to what I am used to.  Definitely gives a different perspective on the stick as a weapon.  The expected Irish brutality was definitely evident as well.


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## kidswarrior (Mar 29, 2008)

Steel Tiger said:


> Interesting that you say this.  The Doyle family style of Bata is called _Rince an Bhata Uisce Bheatha_ or *Whiskey Stick Dance.  Not really that surprising* when you think a bout it though.


No, not surprising. So to summarize, drinking leads to fighting, and sobriety leads to fighting. Sounds like a few people of the Irish persuasion whom I've known. 



> I found the techniques interesting.  Different hand positions and movements to what I am used to. Definitely gives a different perspective on the stick as a weapon.


I've found the difference between Doyle's methods and some others, which I'm guessing are more English and French (Tony Wolf, A.C. Cunningham) significant and as you say, interesting. What I come away with from Doyle, is the speed of identifying and striking the target of opportunity in his use of the cutting stroke. Very eye-opening.



> The expected Irish brutality was definitely evident as well.


What? Irish brutality? And here I thought they were mostly writers. :boing2:


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## kidswarrior (Mar 30, 2008)

Steel Tiger said:


> Different hand positions and movements to what I am used to.  Definitely gives a different perspective on the stick as a weapon.


And for a short intro to Fairbairn's take, which I think complements this idea of different perspectives on the simple stick, see: Fairbairn


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## avm247 (Mar 30, 2008)

Good stuff, reminds me a lot of our (kabaroan eskrima) Bambolia techniques.


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## kidswarrior (Mar 30, 2008)

kidswarrior said:


> And for a short intro to Fairbairn's take, which I think complements this idea of different perspectives on the simple stick, see: Fairbairn


I see this link doesn't work now. Here's another: Link



			
				avm247 said:
			
		

> Good stuff


Thanks.



> reminds me a lot of our (kabaroan eskrima) Bambolia techniques.


Good to know.


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## Steel Tiger (Mar 30, 2008)

kidswarrior said:


> I see this link doesn't work now. Here's another: Link


 
Short, sharp and effective.  Very good close in work.  Something I think people often forget about weapons larger than a knife.  Interesting that these techniques were marketed toward women and girls, and yet were used by the various special forces of WWII.

Fairbairn looked like a damned hard man in those photos too.


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## kidswarrior (May 24, 2008)

Wanted to *stick*  these on here instead of starting a new thread, even though these are obviously Asian-arts oriented (one clip is a modified pinan form). Can really see this working with my 44 inch shillelagh.


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## Tames D (May 24, 2008)

Good stuff KW. You came through again...


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## mrhnau (May 24, 2008)

Short wikipedia article on Bataireacht (Irish stick fighting). Has some nice links on it...


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## kidswarrior (May 25, 2008)

mrhnau said:


> Short wikipedia article on Bataireacht (Irish stick fighting). Has some nice links on it...


Nice, short synopsis.


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## KenpoTex (May 25, 2008)

Steel Tiger said:


> Short, sharp and effective. Very good close in work. Something I think people often forget about weapons larger than a knife. Interesting that these techniques were marketed toward women and girls, and yet were used by the various special forces of WWII.
> 
> Fairbairn looked like a damned hard man in those photos too.


 
and for some more WWII "brutal goodness"  check this page for the Styers method
http://www.gutterfighting.org/coldsteel.html

And for those unfamiliar with who Fairbairn was, here's a short bio.
http://www.gutterfighting.org/WhatIsDefendu.html


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## hapkenkido (May 25, 2008)

cool vids thanks for sharing!


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## kidswarrior (Jun 25, 2008)

This is a new website, not a vid, but vids and manuals should be posted soon. Very helpful stuff by a guy of Irish birth but North American experience in controlling/subduing a subject in many public and private arenas. I highly recommend it if you have an interest in Celtic arts, or work in any field where your physical safety may be on the line in the course of your day (example: I'm a *teacher*, but do as much or more crowd control and talking down hotheads than the 3-R's of old )


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## Sukerkin (Jun 25, 2008)

That looks very interesting, *KDS* - thanks for the link


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## Phadrus00 (Jun 25, 2008)

Thanks for posting these great links!   I think it is fascinating especially as I teach FMA out of a school owned by a group based out of Ireland!  *grin*


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## kidswarrior (Jun 25, 2008)

Phadrus00 said:


> Thanks for posting these great links! I think it is fascinating especially as I teach FMA out of a school owned by a group based out of Ireland! *grin*


I'd be interested in knowing if you're seeing MAs from the East and West blending. I'm just now discovering some things myself.


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## chinto (Jul 25, 2008)

kidswarrior said:


> So imagine what it will do to a wrist, forearm, inside of the shin, ankle, elbow, side of the face/head.  I think of my sticks (and cane) as my *anti-knife.* That 30 inches is a great stress reliever when we don't know what he might have hidden, or even after he pulls a blade (or brass knuckles)--we can reach him, but he can't reach us.



if you strike the head or ribs be aware that you may take a life with a cane length stick... but ya a fore arm ( ulna and radius bones ) will brake a lot easier.. so will the humorous, (uper arm bone) and elbow joint.... clavicles, and ribs too.. so be careful where and how you hit.. but a blade comes out.. go for the head and arms and hand and any place else you can nail them ... no quarter asked or given then!!


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## sickboy (Aug 12, 2012)

I was always quite fond of the way they make them, they cut a good bit of wood out, whittle it down and then coat it in butter/oil and stick it up the chimney to cure/smoke.
Irish regiments in the British Army use them instead of swagger sticks and drill canes.


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