# Help Needed, Unidentified Injury to foot



## Carson Elmore (May 15, 2020)

Hello

First I would like to thank you for any guidance in advance! 

I was sparring on August 2nd 2015. My partner and I were warming up (not sweaty yet). I threw a right low kick at about 70%, my partner backed up quickly so I did not follow through and did some sort of half assed swing and tried to tuck my leg back in close to my body. My pivot foot immediately was in pain. It felt as if the ball of my foot dislocated. The joint since then has felt unstable. I have been to 3 separate foot doctors throughout the years. Since that day i have not been able to kick/push off of that left foot. All contact sports are out, any sprinting or jumping must be done very carefully. The issue is, that no Dr knows what the injury is. Has anyone else had an injury to the ball of their pivot foot?  I have had countless X-rays and there are no broken bones. The last Dr said there is definitely arthritis in that joint, but i know that is not what originally caused this. That is just a byproduct of the original injury. If anyone has had something similar please, any info would be greatly appreciated. I am 25 years old and am too young to have to not be able to push myself. Thank you!


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## Steve (May 15, 2020)

Sounds like you should go talk to a doctor.


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## Carson Elmore (May 15, 2020)

Steve said:


> Sounds like you should go talk to a doctor.


Steve, I have been to 3 different doctors. I have had countless X-rays. I am looking to see if someone has personal experience with it


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## jobo (May 15, 2020)

Carson Elmore said:


> Hello
> 
> First I would like to thank you for any guidance in advance!
> 
> I was sparring on August 2nd 2015. My partner and I were warming up (not sweaty yet). I threw a right low kick at about 70%, my partner backed up quickly so I did not follow through and did some sort of half assed swing and tried to tuck my leg back in close to my body. My pivot foot immediately was in pain. It felt as if the ball of my foot dislocated. The joint since then has felt unstable. I have been to 3 separate foot doctors throughout the years. Since that day i have not been able to kick/push off of that left foot. All contact sports are out, any sprinting or jumping must be done very carefully. The issue is, that no Dr knows what the injury is. Has anyone else had an injury to the ball of their pivot foot?  I have had countless X-rays and there are no broken bones. The last Dr said there is definitely arthritis in that joint, but i know that is not what originally caused this. That is just a byproduct of the original injury. If anyone has had something similar please, any info would be greatly appreciated. I am 25 years old and am too young to have to not be able to push myself. Thank you!


thats five years of being incapacitate...

if theres nothing physically wrong with the structure of the foot, then the only other explanation is its some type of pain syndrome, that doesn't make the pain less real, just a lot harder to diagnose and treat.

have you seen a specialist, either a foot specialist or a sports injury specialist ? if not see one, then follow that up with a neurologist if they cant sort it out

a friend of mine had a similar issue following an accident at work, real pain from a non existent injury, it took over a decade to get a diagnosis and treatment, by which time it was to late to save his leg the lack of movement had killed the circulation and gangrene was present, i watched him go from walking with a limp to a wheel chair in ten years


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## Steve (May 15, 2020)

Carson Elmore said:


> Steve, I have been to 3 different doctors. I have had countless X-rays. I am looking to see if someone has personal experience with it


Glad to hear it.  Hope you heal up fast.


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## Headhunter (May 15, 2020)

Carson Elmore said:


> Steve, I have been to 3 different doctors. I have had countless X-rays. I am looking to see if someone has personal experience with it


Whether or not they do they're not doctors so they really can't give any advice, listening to strangers on the internet is not a good idea.


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## Headhunter (May 15, 2020)

Just because you have some pain doesn't mean you can't push yourself you just got to work around it. I spent a few years training at a bjj club with a guy with only one leg and one arm (and even his good arm wasn't fully formed) and he was a blue belt who was taping out numerous able bodied people and competed in the Abu Dhabi championships and even competed against full bodied athletes and won.


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## Flying Crane (May 15, 2020)

Well, I wonder if it could be a weird and a-typical form of plantar fasciitis.  There are exercises you can do to help it go away.  The first time I had it, it didn’t go away for close to two years.  I was icing, and using heat, but to no avail.  It finally went away pretty quickly once I began the proper exercises.

I suggest you talk again with a doc and see if this could be a reasonable possibility, and then get the exercises from the doc.

Another possibility is that the original injury has actually healed, but has been replaced by the arthritis that came about from the original injury.  Again, talk to the doc about that.


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## dvcochran (May 16, 2020)

Headhunter said:


> Just because you have some pain doesn't mean you can't push yourself you just got to work around it. I spent a few years training at a bjj club with a guy with only one leg and one arm (and even his good arm wasn't fully formed) and he was a blue belt who was taping out numerous able bodied people and competed in the Abu Dhabi championships and even competed against full bodied athletes and won.


I had a similar student. Born with one leg formed just above the knee and the other just below the knee. He did not 'know' there was anyway different and handled the perceive limitations incredibly well.


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## Gweilo (May 16, 2020)

Another possibility,  plantar fascitis


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## Carson Elmore (May 17, 2020)

Headhunter said:


> Just because you have some pain doesn't mean you can't push yourself you just got to work around it. I spent a few years training at a bjj club with a guy with only one leg and one arm (and even his good arm wasn't fully formed) and he was a blue belt who was taping out numerous able bodied people and competed in the Abu Dhabi championships and even competed against full bodied athletes and won.



I don't mean to disregard your motivational comment. I had back surgery at 18, I have a 30% tear in my left patellar tendon under my knee. It has nothing to do with my inability to withstand pain. This just keeps me from being able to go 100% because i have to protect it. When i don't, it dislocates and is debilitating.


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## Carson Elmore (May 17, 2020)

Gweilo said:


> Another possibility,  plantar fascitis



I came across that a few times researching, but plantar fascitis effects a different part of the foot. This is the joint where the big toe connects to the ball of the foot.


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## Flying Crane (May 17, 2020)

Carson Elmore said:


> I came across that a few times researching, but plantar fascitis effects a different part of the foot. This is the joint where the big toe connects to the ball of the foot.


Yes it typically does.  That is why in my post I said it could be an a-typical manifestation of it, or I guess something similar.  It’s worth talking to the doctor about, it you haven’t already.


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## Carson Elmore (May 17, 2020)

jobo said:


> thats five years of being incapacitate...
> 
> if theres nothing physically wrong with the structure of the foot, then the only other explanation is its some type of pain syndrome, that doesn't make the pain less real, just a lot harder to diagnose and treat.
> 
> ...



This is definitely a structural injury. There is bruising and swelling after each dislocation. The joint just has not felt stable and secure since the original injury. I am going to have an MRI but I assumed this might be a semi common injury in the sport and someone could help me throw some ideas at the doctors. The first doctor I went to was a sports injury specialist and once I told him it didnt heal after wearing a boot for 3 months he was out of ideas. The other 2 Drs i have been to were orthopedic specialists.


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## jobo (May 17, 2020)

Carson Elmore said:


> This is definitely a structural injury. There is bruising and swelling after each dislocation. The joint just has not felt stable and secure since the original injury. I am going to have an MRI but I assumed this might be a semi common injury in the sport and someone could help me throw some ideas at the doctors. The first doctor I went to was a sports injury specialist and once I told him it didnt heal after wearing a boot for 3 months he was out of ideas. The other 2 Drs i have been to were orthopedic specialists.


you have a structural injury that doesn't show up on xrays and has an orthopaedic specialist stumped ?, you should either be in a display case or its psychosomatic


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## Carson Elmore (May 17, 2020)

Flying Crane said:


> Yes it typically does.  That is why in my post I said it could be an a-typical manifestation of it, or I guess something similar.  It’s worth talking to the doctor about, it you haven’t already.


Thank you, I'll run it by them. Did your injury feel like a dislocation? Basically since the original injury, the ball of my foot has felt very unstable. And if I push off on it, pivot, step on uneven groud (like a root sticking out for example) It feels like it is about to dislocate. If I try to sprint, then it will dislocate and will bruise, swell, all that jazz. to me it is bizarre that being so young and taking so much time off, it still feels just as susceptible to injury as the first day.


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## Carson Elmore (May 17, 2020)

jobo said:


> you have a structural injury that doesn't show up on xrays and has an orthopaedic specialist stumped ?, you should either be in a display case or its psychosomatic


Thats why I am having an MRI. Not everything can be seen in X-rays. You cant see cartilage, tendon, or ligament damage in an x-ray


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## Flying Crane (May 17, 2020)

Carson Elmore said:


> Thank you, I'll run it by them. Did your injury feel like a dislocation? Basically since the original injury, the ball of my foot has felt very unstable. And if I push off on it, pivot, step on uneven groud (like a root sticking out for example) It feels like it is about to dislocate. If I try to sprint, then it will dislocate and will bruise, swell, all that jazz. to me it is bizarre that being so young and taking so much time off, it still feels just as susceptible to injury as the first day.


Not a dislocation, no.  Mine was more typical of plantar fasciitis. But it was very painful, I would hobble around on it especially in the morning or when I first get up after being sedentary for a while.  As I would move and walk, it would gradually subside for a while,  but if I sat down again for a while it would be just as bad again.

The condition is a strain/injury of the ligament/tendon lengthwise along the bottom of the foot and perhaps you have a similarly strained ligament at the toe.  Maybe that strain has caused weakness that is allowing the toe to dislocate because it is at a pretty small joint that can have a lot of weight and pressure put on it when walking or running.  I’m thinking out loud here, I just think it’s worth a discussion with the doctor.


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## Headhunter (May 17, 2020)

Carson Elmore said:


> I don't mean to disregard your motivational comment. I had back surgery at 18, I have a 30% tear in my left patellar tendon under my knee. It has nothing to do with my inability to withstand pain. This just keeps me from being able to go 100% because i have to protect it. When i don't, it dislocates and is debilitating.


Then don't go at 100% got at whatever % is safe for you to go at


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## Buka (May 17, 2020)

if it were me, once I got the MRI, I'd take the film and the x-rays to a good Kinesciologist.

And welcome to Martial Talk.


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## JowGaWolf (May 17, 2020)

Carson Elmore said:


> Hello
> 
> First I would like to thank you for any guidance in advance!
> 
> I was sparring on August 2nd 2015. My partner and I were warming up (not sweaty yet). I threw a right low kick at about 70%, my partner backed up quickly so I did not follow through and did some sort of half assed swing and tried to tuck my leg back in close to my body. My pivot foot immediately was in pain. It felt as if the ball of my foot dislocated. The joint since then has felt unstable. I have been to 3 separate foot doctors throughout the years. Since that day i have not been able to kick/push off of that left foot. All contact sports are out, any sprinting or jumping must be done very carefully. The issue is, that no Dr knows what the injury is. Has anyone else had an injury to the ball of their pivot foot?  I have had countless X-rays and there are no broken bones. The last Dr said there is definitely arthritis in that joint, but i know that is not what originally caused this. That is just a byproduct of the original injury. If anyone has had something similar please, any info would be greatly appreciated. I am 25 years old and am too young to have to not be able to push myself. Thank you!


I would go to an "alternative medicine" doctor.  By alternative I don't mean some crazy doctor with a magical drink.  I mean a doctor that isn't so closed minded to medicine where the only way he can tell if something wrong is to take an X-ray.  From what you describe it seems like something is either out of place or caught.  The reason why I say this is because you describe it as something that felt moved out of place and didn't settle back (dislocated).  This is a possibility that something is out of place or hung on the inner workings in your.  It's probably tissue related which is why x-rays don't show anything.  Having connective tissue out of place is not the same has having bone out of place.  With connective tissue the Dr.has to be able to massage and feel your foot for connective tissue vs feeling for bone displacement.  I'm thinking a highly skilled massage therapist or someone highly skilled in eastern (non-western medicine).

The thing about a lot of non-western medicine and "traditional" medicine is that they are trained to feel around and diagnose issues through touch and are not always in a position where they can just take an xray.   I bet your doctors spent more time setting you for an x-ray than feeling around on your foot to see if something was out place.  Doctors that I had when I was a child  "40" years ago would spend quite a bit of time actually feeling for an injury.  It was more than just bending the foot and saying "does this hurt".  I go to a doctor now and the first thing they is apply movement until I say it hurts, then they suit me up for an xray.   Many doctors now just want to do a quick look over.  Very few want to manually dig around to see what's happening.  You are more likely to get that from a physical therapist, but sometimes they don't even do it. 

The difficulty is finding a good doctor like that.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (May 17, 2020)

Carson Elmore said:


> Thats why I am having an MRI. Not everything can be seen in X-rays. You cant see cartilage, tendon, or ligament damage in an x-ray


Hopefully it shows up on the MRI. But if it doesn't accept that it might be psychosomatic. Which like jobo said doesn't make it less real. But the brain is a powerful thing and can make it feel in every way like an actual, physical injury.


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## Gerry Seymour (May 17, 2020)

Carson Elmore said:


> Hello
> 
> First I would like to thank you for any guidance in advance!
> 
> I was sparring on August 2nd 2015. My partner and I were warming up (not sweaty yet). I threw a right low kick at about 70%, my partner backed up quickly so I did not follow through and did some sort of half assed swing and tried to tuck my leg back in close to my body. My pivot foot immediately was in pain. It felt as if the ball of my foot dislocated. The joint since then has felt unstable. I have been to 3 separate foot doctors throughout the years. Since that day i have not been able to kick/push off of that left foot. All contact sports are out, any sprinting or jumping must be done very carefully. The issue is, that no Dr knows what the injury is. Has anyone else had an injury to the ball of their pivot foot?  I have had countless X-rays and there are no broken bones. The last Dr said there is definitely arthritis in that joint, but i know that is not what originally caused this. That is just a byproduct of the original injury. If anyone has had something similar please, any info would be greatly appreciated. I am 25 years old and am too young to have to not be able to push myself. Thank you!


The only thing I've experienced that produced immediate pain that didn't show on X-rays was a bone spur that broke off and was just wandering around in the joint chewing up the cartilege. It's probably time to have something more than an X-ray. If your doc can't figure it out, go to another doc.

You say you've had "countless X-rays", but that seems unlikely. If one set of X-rays doesn't show a problem, another doc might decide to get their own to verify that, but then they'll typically look to another diagnostic tool.


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## Gerry Seymour (May 17, 2020)

Headhunter said:


> Just because you have some pain doesn't mean you can't push yourself you just got to work around it. I spent a few years training at a bjj club with a guy with only one leg and one arm (and even his good arm wasn't fully formed) and he was a blue belt who was taping out numerous able bodied people and competed in the Abu Dhabi championships and even competed against full bodied athletes and won.


That's not necessarily true, HH. Some pain can be pushed through. Pushing through other pains can cause long-term damage. Not knowing the cause of the pain leaves that in question.


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## Gerry Seymour (May 17, 2020)

Carson Elmore said:


> I came across that a few times researching, but plantar fascitis effects a different part of the foot. This is the joint where the big toe connects to the ball of the foot.


That's where I had my bone spur. Have you been to a foot specialist? I can't recall if you mentioned that in your OP, and I'm too tired to go back and read it again.


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## Gerry Seymour (May 17, 2020)

jobo said:


> you have a structural injury that doesn't show up on xrays and has an orthopaedic specialist stumped ?, you should either be in a display case or its psychosomatic


Bruising is rarely psychosomatic.


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## Gerry Seymour (May 17, 2020)

Carson Elmore said:


> Thank you, I'll run it by them. Did your injury feel like a dislocation? Basically since the original injury, the ball of my foot has felt very unstable. And if I push off on it, pivot, step on uneven groud (like a root sticking out for example) It feels like it is about to dislocate. If I try to sprint, then it will dislocate and will bruise, swell, all that jazz. to me it is bizarre that being so young and taking so much time off, it still feels just as susceptible to injury as the first day.


You describe it as a dislocation. Is there actual, visible dislocation of the joint?


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## JowGaWolf (May 17, 2020)

gpseymour said:


> That's not necessarily true, HH. Some pain can be pushed through. Pushing through other pains can cause long-term damage. Not knowing the cause of the pain leaves that in question.


I pushed through a bad sprang ankle in my 20's and caused permanent damage to my ankle.  The damaged ankle now naturally turns inward enough that I now have to make a conscious effort to prevent it from doing that.  Whatever I did probably never heal correctly.  I probably should have stopped putting weight on it each day thinking I was going to work it off.  It seems that the older I get, the more of an issue it becomes, and the more I notice it. I'm definitely not happy with my 20 something's self.


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## Gerry Seymour (May 17, 2020)

JowGaWolf said:


> I pushed through a bad sprang ankle in my 20's and caused permanent damage to my ankle.  The damaged ankle now naturally turns inward enough that I now have to make a conscious effort to prevent it from doing that.  Whatever I did probably never heal correctly.  I probably should have stopped putting weight on it each day thinking I was going to work it off.  It seems that the older I get, the more of an issue it becomes, and the more I notice it. I'm definitely not happy with my 20 something's self.


Yeah, I have a few things I'd like to discuss with 20-year-old me, too. He was a bit careless with this carcass.


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## jobo (May 18, 2020)

gpseymour said:


> Bruising is rarely psychosomatic.


swelling can be


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## Carson Elmore (May 18, 2020)

gpseymour said:


> That's where I had my bone spur. Have you been to a foot specialist? I can't recall if you mentioned that in your OP, and I'm too tired to go back and read it again.


Thank you for taking the time to read through my post. I have been to foot specialists, all three of the doctors were foot specialists actually. But this bone spur thing is very interesting. Did it cause chronic pain? I am not constantly in pain throughout the day. It is only really painful if I do some type of forceful movement that recreates the injury. Then it is painful for about a week. Thank you for your insight, I want bring that up to the Dr after I get my MRI


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## Carson Elmore (May 18, 2020)

gpseymour said:


> You describe it as a dislocation. Is there actual, visible dislocation of the joint?


If I am being honest, It happens so fast, I do not know. Nor have I been willing to try to recreate the injury without shoes on anymore. But this only happens when I am not paying enough attention.

Hear me out. My childhood friend came to town on tuesday of last week. 6 days ago. We played 1 on 1 basketabll like the old days. Everything was fine until we were tied for the game winning point. We kept going back and forth and we got really into it. Chasing a rebound is how I reinjured it. Throughout the rest of the game I was able to focus on protecting that injury. Which I am able to do by curing my big left toe into the bottom of my shoe. Almost like a hawks talon. Somehow this protects the joint I have found?


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## Carson Elmore (May 18, 2020)

Buka said:


> if it were me, once I got the MRI, I'd take the film and the x-rays to a good Kinesciologist.
> 
> And welcome to Martial Talk.


Great idea Buka. Also I like your profile picture. That made my day!


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## Carson Elmore (May 18, 2020)

JowGaWolf said:


> I would go to an "alternative medicine" doctor.  By alternative I don't mean some crazy doctor with a magical drink.  I mean a doctor that isn't so closed minded to medicine where the only way he can tell if something wrong is to take an X-ray.  From what you describe it seems like something is either out of place or caught.  The reason why I say this is because you describe it as something that felt moved out of place and didn't settle back (dislocated).  This is a possibility that something is out of place or hung on the inner workings in your.  It's probably tissue related which is why x-rays don't show anything.  Having connective tissue out of place is not the same has having bone out of place.  With connective tissue the Dr.has to be able to massage and feel your foot for connective tissue vs feeling for bone displacement.  I'm thinking a highly skilled massage therapist or someone highly skilled in eastern (non-western medicine).
> 
> The thing about a lot of non-western medicine and "traditional" medicine is that they are trained to feel around and diagnose issues through touch and are not always in a position where they can just take an xray.   I bet your doctors spent more time setting you for an x-ray than feeling around on your foot to see if something was out place.  Doctors that I had when I was a child  "40" years ago would spend quite a bit of time actually feeling for an injury.  It was more than just bending the foot and saying "does this hurt".  I go to a doctor now and the first thing they is apply movement until I say it hurts, then they suit me up for an xray.   Many doctors now just want to do a quick look over.  Very few want to manually dig around to see what's happening.  You are more likely to get that from a physical therapist, but sometimes they don't even do it.
> 
> The difficulty is finding a good doctor like that.


The last Dr I went to was way more hands on. He did take x-rays but thats because #1. I told him my last diagnosis was a broken bone. #2. For insurance purposes a Dr is not allowed to order an MRI unless an X-ray is preformed first unfortunately. Hopefully this Dr will continue being more hands on after the MRI


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## Gerry Seymour (May 18, 2020)

Carson Elmore said:


> Thank you for taking the time to read through my post. I have been to foot specialists, all three of the doctors were foot specialists actually. But this bone spur thing is very interesting. Did it cause chronic pain? I am not constantly in pain throughout the day. It is only really painful if I do some type of forceful movement that recreates the injury. Then it is painful for about a week. Thank you for your insight, I want bring that up to the Dr after I get my MRI


The progression of my bone spur isn't the same as what you describe, but I'll share it in case it helps. A bone spur grew on the major joint of my left great toe over years (I also had a significant injury to that toe back in my 20's, and I wonder if that's what started it). I had decreased range of motion and general soreness for many years. Last year, I hopped off the last few steps into my basement (something I do literally every time I go down there) and felt a really sharp pain in that joint. The pain didn't go away and the toe got worse. When I went to a foot specialist some weeks later, he could see the bone spur (had both X-ray and MRI on it). We opted for surgery, and I'm glad I did. When he went in, he found a part of the spur had broken off and was grinding around in the joint. 

With the bit of spur in the joint, the joint was tender to the touch, got much worse at times (probably me doing something that ground that bit of bone into the joint more), and was often very tender to even walk on.


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## Gerry Seymour (May 18, 2020)

Carson Elmore said:


> If I am being honest, It happens so fast, I do not know. Nor have I been willing to try to recreate the injury without shoes on anymore. But this only happens when I am not paying enough attention.
> 
> Hear me out. My childhood friend came to town on tuesday of last week. 6 days ago. We played 1 on 1 basketabll like the old days. Everything was fine until we were tied for the game winning point. We kept going back and forth and we got really into it. Chasing a rebound is how I reinjured it. Throughout the rest of the game I was able to focus on protecting that injury. Which I am able to do by curing my big left toe into the bottom of my shoe. Almost like a hawks talon. Somehow this protects the joint I have found?


Okay, so it's a sudden pain, but not necessarily a dislocation from the sound of it. And the grabbing the bottom of the shoe is exactly the habit I developed to protect my big toe. It keeps the joint from bending as far. I did that off and on for years, and constantly for many weeks. I literally had to learn how to not do that while walking.


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## Carson Elmore (May 18, 2020)

gpseymour said:


> Okay, so it's a sudden pain, but not necessarily a dislocation from the sound of it. And the grabbing the bottom of the shoe is exactly the habit I developed to protect my big toe. It keeps the joint from bending as far. I did that off and on for years, and constantly for many weeks. I literally had to learn how to not do that while walking.



Thank you for sharing your experience with the bone spur. That's a very interesting concept that I will toss around to the Dr. I really am convinced it is a form of dislocation or something out of place like Jowgawolf said. Just based on the sensation it feels similar to the dislocations i have had previously. Although the degree of dislocation can cause slight differences in how it feels when it happens. Either way thank you for giving me another tool in my belt!


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## JowGaWolf (May 18, 2020)

Carson Elmore said:


> The last Dr I went to was way more hands on. He did take x-rays but thats because #1. I told him my last diagnosis was a broken bone. #2. For insurance purposes a Dr is not allowed to order an MRI unless an X-ray is preformed first unfortunately. Hopefully this Dr will continue being more hands on after the MRI


The next time he feels around for injury on your foot.  Ask him what is he searching for or trying to detect.  Did he compare both feet, suing the good foot to help him identify what may be out of place on the injured foot?   Hopefully this doctor will be able to figure out what the other's couldn't.


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## Buka (May 19, 2020)

Another thing you might consider, Carson, are orthotics. Custom made hard ones, not the soft ones you buy off a rack. They're usually made from plastic or carbon fiber, they're made from a precise mold of your feet, both feet.

Every ailment and every person is different, but they saved my butt over fifteen years ago and I've been wearing them since, pain free. Obviously, not when I'm barefoot, but my feet no longer bother me then.

Keep us posted how this progresses. And keep the faith.


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## Carson Elmore (May 23, 2020)

Thank you for the guidance guys! I finally had an MRI scheduled for the 27th! I will keep y'all posted! I am excited to see who was the closest to the correct answer


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## Carson Elmore (May 29, 2020)

Got a call from the Dr office today. Over the phone, they told me that I have severe cartilage in the joint where the great toe and ball of the foot meet. The Dr's theory was that the original injury may have basically torn a chunk of cartilage out, therefore. the toe cannot sit in the joint correctly anymore.Which is why when i push off/pivot, it gives the sensation of dislocation. Seems like this is most likely the injury! That being said, anyone suffered anything like this?


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## Carson Elmore (May 29, 2020)

Also relived that it was not just in my head haha. Although that wouldn't involve a surgery to fix, I think that would be a tough shot to my pride.


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## Carson Elmore (May 29, 2020)

Carson Elmore said:


> Got a call from the Dr office today. Over the phone, they told me that I have severe cartilage in the joint where the great toe and ball of the foot meet. The Dr's theory was that the original injury may have basically torn a chunk of cartilage out, therefore. the toe cannot sit in the joint correctly anymore.Which is why when i push off/pivot, it gives the sensation of dislocation. Seems like this is most likely the injury! That being said, anyone suffered anything like this?


 
*Severe cartilage damage*  Sorry i missed a word there


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## dvcochran (May 29, 2020)

I have had cartilage damage/injury but not where you describe. Can it be repaired?


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (May 29, 2020)

Carson Elmore said:


> Got a call from the Dr office today. Over the phone, they told me that I have severe cartilage in the joint where the great toe and ball of the foot meet. The Dr's theory was that the original injury may have basically torn a chunk of cartilage out, therefore. the toe cannot sit in the joint correctly anymore.Which is why when i push off/pivot, it gives the sensation of dislocation. Seems like this is most likely the injury! That being said, anyone suffered anything like this?


I 'liked' this, not because I like that you're missing cartilage, but because you now finally know what is going on. Are you going to go for surgery to have it repaired/replaced?


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## Carson Elmore (May 30, 2020)

Thank you for the support Monkey Turned Wolf! Also Dvcochran, where was your injury/what was your treatment. 

I am going in Tuesday for the official follow-up to discuss possible short term and long term options. I am keeping all options open now. It will be a tough decision, since it does not limit my everyday activity very much, or even at all. It only prevents me from being able to participate in intense activities like sprinting, kickboxing, playing basketball. I can do these things but not at the level of intensity I enjoy and have the energy for. I am very interested in Dvcochran experience. Being 25 years old, I have a lot of years of training in front of me (if I am able), but that also means i could have a lot of years of not being able to train if I chose something that makes it worse.


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## dvcochran (May 31, 2020)

Carson Elmore said:


> Thank you for the support Monkey Turned Wolf! Also Dvcochran, where was your injury/what was your treatment.
> 
> I am going in Tuesday for the official follow-up to discuss possible short term and long term options. I am keeping all options open now. It will be a tough decision, since it does not limit my everyday activity very much, or even at all. It only prevents me from being able to participate in intense activities like sprinting, kickboxing, playing basketball. I can do these things but not at the level of intensity I enjoy and have the energy for. I am very interested in Dvcochran experience. Being 25 years old, I have a lot of years of training in front of me (if I am able), but that also means i could have a lot of years of not being able to train if I chose something that makes it worse.



The injury closest one to your symptoms is my right ankle. 
Growing up I simply had weak ankles and twisted and rolled them them all the time. We had/have a very active farming lifestyle so I occasionally got some pretty nasty sprains that would swell and badly bruise.
In my early 30's I was setting at a table near a manufacturing machine programming the PLC. When concentrating I often bounce my feet. Inside the plant it was loud enough that we were required to wear ear plugs. While bouncing my feet, there was a loud 'crack!' and an operator near me turned and asked "what was that?" My right foot stung and had turned inward and would not straighten out. I pulled my leg up and when I rotated my ankle it felt more like I was rolling dish towel around. It was stinging/burning but was not terribly painful as long as I stayed seated. 
I finished a couple more hours of programming and hobbled back to my office. I had noticed pressure in my shoe and when I checked my leg at the lower calf had swollen pretty bad and there was a big knot on the side. And the pain was getting worse. 
I went to a local doctor and he said I had broken my broken my fibula (small shin bone). I was skeptical and was able to get an appointment the next day with my regular Ortho. He did some scans including an MRI and figured out that because I had damaged and lost a small piece of the cartilage in my ankle joint, over time it had also damaged the tubes that the tendons on the outside of the ankle run through. What we heard was the last tendon snapping and the knot was where it has pulled back in a wad.
Other than cleaning up the joint, he said the damage was already done to the cartilage. But he was able to graph new tubes and re-attach the tendons. The worst part was having to wear nine different thigh high casts that were replaced ever three weeks. The first had my foot set with my toes pointed all the was forward, then with each proceeding cast, the angle came up until the fool was pulled all the way up. I am still amaze how much More stable this ankle is/was after the surgery. 

I have wear and tear and trauma cartilage damage mostly in my knees and elsewhere but I think that is different from what you have. 

My suggestions:
1.) Do you have a relationship with your doctor and feel comfortable/confident with him/her? If so listen to them. If Anything feels sideways with the diagnostics or recommendations, get a second and (if possible) third opinion. It has to be a relationship where the doctor believes you and you believe them. Hard to find sometimes. 
2.) You are young and it it sounds like you want to be active, which is a Very, very good thing. What does not 'hurt' you during your daily activity right now very likely will down the road. At you age NOTHING should limit your physical activity. Period. 
3.) I had my 31st surgery earlier this year. I am a FIRM believer that any joint surgery, whether open or arthroscopic can/will lead to arthritis setting up in the joint. Everything I have read and studied supports this idea. It does have a lot to do with genetics and lifestyle. The quality of the surgeon and type of surgery greatly matters as well. Have an honest, no BS conversation with your doctor and yourself about the long term positives and Negatives of surgery. 
4.) Don't just do it because 'that is what the doctor said'. 

Study, research and make a plan. From my limited knowledge, based on what you have posted here, it sounds like something that needs to be fixed but I have Zero real evidence to support that. Be smart and in charge or your own body and make the most informed decision you can.


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## Carson Elmore (May 31, 2020)

dvcochran said:


> The injury closest one to your symptoms is my right ankle.
> Growing up I simply had weak ankles and twisted and rolled them them all the time. We had/have a very active farming lifestyle so I occasionally got some pretty nasty sprains that would swell and badly bruise.
> In my early 30's I was setting at a table near a manufacturing machine programming the PLC. When concentrating I often bounce my feet. Inside the plant it was loud enough that we were required to wear ear plugs. While bouncing my feet, there was a loud 'crack!' and an operator near me turned and asked "what was that?" My right foot stung and had turned inward and would not straighten out. I pulled my leg up and when I rotated my ankle it felt more like I was rolling dish towel around. It was stinging/burning but was not terribly painful as long as I stayed seated.
> I finished a couple more hours of programming and hobbled back to my office. I had noticed pressure in my shoe and when I checked my leg at the lower calf had swollen pretty bad and there was a big knot on the side. And the pain was getting worse.
> ...




Man that sounds horrific. I am lucky with the location of the injury, it only causes pain basically when I am doing something i know will test it. The doctor already confirmed there's arthritis in the joint so that is a little too late unfortunately. But i really appreciate you sharing your story and words of wisdom. It sounds like you have a similar expectation on your personal fitness as I do. It is very hard living up to your own expectations when your body fails you. I will be as smart as i can and will more than likely seek out at least a couple other opinions before making any irreversible decisions. I can't thank you enough for what you said. Very insightful, direct, and calming. Thank you again


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