# Top Secret Training



## Salagubang (Jun 25, 2007)

Below is an email forwarded to mejust sharing it to FMA Community

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Every culture throughout history has created some
form of martial art so their people can defend
themselves in a time of crisis.

But as we already know; the only true
test of a martial art is in actual combat.

Known as Kali in Europe and the United States,
the knife and stick fighting based art is
actually called Eskrima or Arnis by the Filipino
people. It is said that the art was developed
over centuries during many intertribal conflicts
and wars with outside invaders.

Those who practice Kali claim that is more then
just a cultural art and remains an effective form
of self defense that can be taught to someone
quickly. And while on paper Kali seems like it
has a lot to offer, both its historical data and
self defense methodology say otherwise.

Many Filipino martial artists cite the Battle of
Mactan, which occurred on April 27, 1521 as proof
that their system works in battle. Warriors of
Lapu-Lapu, a chieftain of Mactan Island, defeated
a landing force of Spanish sailors and soldiers
under the command of Portuguese explorer
Ferdinand Magellan.

Magellan's forces were armed with crossbows
and muskets, but were heavily outnumbered
by the natives. The overwhelming tribal force
cut them down and the famous explorer was killed.

The major flaw with this isolated example, is
that it is the only successful battle of hundreds
throughout the sad but true history of a
conquered people. The Spanish Conquistadors went
on to conquer all of the islands with ease and
held them until the United States invaded in

The conquistadors were skilled warriors even
without muskets and cannons, because they forged
their skills on the battlefields of Europe for
centuries fighting the also highly skilled Muslim
invaders???Not a bunch of tribal natives.

Spain's fighting men conquered huge amounts of
territory, and destroyed ancient empires with discipline,
superior tactics, and hard training. The
unfortunate tribal warriors of the Philippines
(and their cultural fighting art of Kali) were
no different than any other native conquest to
the Conquistadors.

But historical insignificance is not the only
chink in the Kali armor.

While it isn't fair to discount Kali simply
because its practitioners main focus is blades
and sticks (they also do practice some grappling
and empty hand techniques), but this kind of
training is hampered in the real world.

It has not been socially acceptable to carry a
sword in public in over 100 years and there are
many restrictions on smaller bladed weapons.

And although Kali stick fighting looks impressive to
the untrained eye, I have yet to hear of one
person beaten to death by a pair of Escrima
sticks.

All said and done, someone armed with an
ordinary wooden baseball bat or axe handle, could
undoubtedly finish off one of these so called
???dangerous?? stick fighters in a heartbeat.

Like any cultural fighting art, I don't condemn
anyone for spending their time practicing Kali
because it seems like a decent physical
conditioning method and a heck of a lot of fun.

And while weapons training can be a great
addition to your close combat toolbox, learning
from these conquered people is not the answer as
it is clearly not a legitimate method of self
defense.

Train Smart,

Chris "Lt. X" Pizzo
www.TopSecretTraining.com

PS. Go get some REAL self defense training
at some EXTREMELY LOW prices as we finish
up our "overstock"warehouse clearance week
here at www.topsecrettraining.com.

To grab a some mighty discounts on our PROVEN
close-combat training packages, simply type "ALERT"
in the special code box on your sjhopping cart before you
check out. Go now => www.topsecrettraining.com


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## tellner (Jun 25, 2007)

This fraudulent twit has been exposed many times including a few here on MT. His opinion is generously worth a pint of moldy garbage and two whistles.


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## thekuntawman (Jun 25, 2007)

even though everyone here knows what this man is saying is advertising, he is making a good point about the effectiveness of what most people practice.

this is another reason i say, commercialism hurt the philippine martial artist. most people who know FMA people only know the ones who practice "stick tapping", and they think all of are weak. if a majority of us practice powerful eskrima styles, it would not be easy for people like him to be agreed.

his write up is very offensive to the philippine culture, he better stick to the internet and his sissy seminars.


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## The Fighting Edge (Jul 7, 2007)

Hello Fellow FMA Community members!

I see that this guy is already known... but hear I go preaching to the choir.

Nothing makes me angrier than people taking advantage of the public with so called Secret Training. Especially when they pass it off as having Special Operations origins. I got into this guys automated email cue and here is the first piece of marketing dribble he sent me. It is also posted on a site which allows comments http://ezinearticles.com/?Kali---The-Filipino-Cultural-Art-of-Stick-and-Knife-Fighting&id=617956So lets give him some feedback and see if we cant stop jokers like this from spreading their garbage! If you have any questions regarding this guys claims of SF involvement I currently serve in the 3rd Special Forces and am quite knowledgeable of current and recent training provided throughout USASOC.

Hi Jason,

Every culture throughout history has created some form of martial art so their people can defend themselves in a time of crisis. 

But as we already know; the only true
test of a martial art is in actual combat. 

Known as Kali in Europe and the United States, the knife and stick fighting based art is actually called Eskrima or Arnis by the Filipino people. It is said that the art was developed over centuries during many intertribal conflicts and wars with outside invaders. 

Those who practice Kali claim that is more then just a cultural art and remains an effective form of self defense that can be taught to someone quickly. And while on paper Kali seems like it has a lot to offer, both its historical data and self defense methodology say otherwise.

Many Filipino martial artists cite the Battle of Mactan, which occurred on April 27, 1521 as proof that their system works in battle. Warriors of Lapu-Lapu, a chieftain of Mactan Island, defeated a landing force of Spanish sailors and soldiers under the command of Portuguese explorer Ferdinand Magellan. 

Magellan's forces were armed with crossbows and muskets, but were heavily outnumbered by the natives. The overwhelming tribal force cut them down and the famous explorer was killed.

The major flaw with this isolated example, is that it is the only successful battle of hundreds throughout the sad but true history of a conquered people. The Spanish Conquistadors went on to conquer all of the islands with ease and held them until the United States invaded in 1898. 

The conquistadors were skilled warriors even without muskets and cannons, because they forged their skills on the battlefields of Europe for centuries fighting the also highly skilled Muslim invaders???Not a bunch of tribal natives. 

Spain's fighting men conquered huge amounts of territory, and destroyed ancient empires with discipline, superior tactics, and hard training. The unfortunate tribal warriors of the Philippines (and their cultural fighting art of Kali)  were no different than any other native conquest to the Conquistadors.

But historical insignificance is not the only chink in the Kali armor.

While it isn't fair to discount Kali simply because its practitioners main focus is blades and sticks (they also do practice some grappling and empty hand techniques), but this kind of training is hampered in the real world. 

It has not been socially acceptable to carry a sword in public in over 100 years and there are many restrictions on smaller bladed weapons. 

And although Kali stick fighting looks impressive to the untrained eye, I have yet to hear of one person beaten to death by a pair of Escrima sticks. 

All said and done, someone armed with an ordinary wooden baseball bat or axe handle, could undoubtedly finish off one of these so called ???dangerous?? stick fighters in a heartbeat.

Like any cultural fighting art, I don't condemn anyone for spending their time practicing Kali because it seems like a decent physical conditioning method and a heck of a lot of fun.

And while weapons training can be a great addition to your close combat toolbox, learning from these conquered people is not the answer as it is clearly not a legitimate method of self defense.

Train Smart,

Chris "Lt. X" Pizzo
www.TopSecretTraining.com

PS. Go get some REAL self defense training at some EXTREMELY LOW prices as we finish up our "overstock"warehouse clearance week here at www.topsecrettraining.com.

To grab a some mighty discounts on our PROVEN close-combat training packages, simply type "ALERT"
in the special code box on your sjhopping cart before you check out. Go now => www.topsecrettraining.com

PPSS. If you haven't already nabbed your fre.e Accelerated Battlefield Combatives learning package ($984 value) then click on http://www.topsecrettraining.com/abc directly

Copyright, Noble Learning Systems, Inc 2007

** All material contained in this email is provided for informational purposes only. The author of this email, and associated companies cannot assume any responsibility or liability for any injuries or losses that you may incur as a result of acting upon any information provided.
Always consult a physician before beginning or changing any diet or fitness program.**

This email is protected by copyright, 2007, Noble Learning Systems, Inc. All rights reserved.
Reproduction of any portion of this email is strictly prohibited without the express written consent of Noble Learning Systems, Inc.

Chris "Lt. X" Pizzo
Noble Learning Systems, Inc.
400 D Lake Street- Suite C
Ramsey NJ 07446 USA
LieutenantX@topsecrettraining.com
http://www.topsecrettraining.com
http://www.closecombatpros.org

Customer Service:

For FASTEST response ==>
http://topsecrettraining.com/help
(Use the FAQ Knowledgebase or Submit a Help Ticket Directly)

917-546-6870 Phone (M-F 9-5 EST)
973-863-7475 FAX



LtXListens@topsecrettraining.com

Respond to this garbage at this site http://ezinearticles.com/?Kali---The-Filipino-Cultural-Art-of-Stick-and-Knife-Fighting&id=617956

This email LtXListens@topsecrettraining.com

Or this number (good luck on this one) or fax: 917-546-6870 Phone (M-F 9-5 EST), 973-863-7475 FAX

Here is some great info provided by Tuhon, Artist, and Scholar Raphael Kayanan in case you had any doubts regarding this lamers filth!

The major flaw with this isolated example, is
that it is the only successful battle of hundreds
throughout the sad but true history of a
conquered people."     Chris "Lt. X" Pizzo


Hopefully his martial art instruction is not as badly researched as his history.

Here's just a small sampling of quotes from those who were there and actually saw the combative prowess of the natives.

--Rafael--

*"In hand to hand combat our soldiers are simply no match for the Moro. If our first shot misses the target, we rarely have time to get off another."

*This quote was written by Cornelius C. Smith, Jr - Thirty year US Army veteran of the Indian wars (he fought Apache, Comanche, Lakota etc.) and the Moro campaigns. 

Smith received a Congressional Medal of Honor for gallantry against the Sioux. For his gallantry he was sent to Mindanao to fight the Moros.
----
In the latter part of 1642, the Conquistador Capitan Morales with 150 Spaniards and 450 Visayan warriors went on an expedition to Parang.

This was the conquistador's final mission.

The warriors of Parang funneled the Spanish forces deeper into the interior of the Sulu jungle.
Morales was said to have called these warriors "dogs" along the way until a well aimed bamboo spear silenced him forever.
Along with Morales, 39 Spanish soldiers also died in this battle.
The Parang Sulus numbered 70 but their tactics enabled them to defeat 600 Spaniards and their Visayan allies. Info from _Muslims in the Philippines_, Majul

-----

" while the Spaniards were in the open, and there was no path by which to mount, the Spaniards began to fall dead and wounded; while the Moros received no damage..."  from Blair and Robertson

-----

*The death of Captain Lopez Suarez 
*"a brave soldier" along  twenty six other Spanish soldiers at Basilan. The use of a Moro spear is noted as impaling another captain named Ome, who was said to have defeated the Moro who ran him through. It is not indicated whether Ome used a sword, lance or firearm but one would suspect that at the longer range of a spear, his weapon would possibly be of equal or greater range. Eventually, the Spanish retreated with the wounded Ome. The skirmish was described by the Spanish as a "great loss" ....

----

The Moros Buysan and Silongan were two rulers of islands that faced "OUR islands of Pintados" who gathered a great fleet of roughly 150 vessels, and armed their warriors with a "large number of arquebuse and muskets". The Moros were 6000 - 8000 strong and captured "ALL of our (Spanish) ships" and made themselves "masters of the land and sea". The Moros also captured and defeated so many Christianized Indians (most possibly Visayans, Pampangans) at so great a number that "it would break one's heart to tell it." Just one Moro raid the captives were over 2500! (page 93, Vol 29 Blair and Robertson).

----

*Datu Achen* 
was compared by the Spanish to the "most destructive of African pirates". His reputation was of slaying and making prisoners of Spaniards and their Indian allies. Datu Achen overran the Pintado island (Visayas)  and "carried away (Spanish) artillery and firearms" . Datu Achen's and fellow Mindanaons and Joloans' ships were described as "remarkably swift and so have great advantage over ours (Spanish ships)"

----

"When the Spanish ruled in the Philippines, they had made a few attempts to tame the Headhunters by force, but were repelled with heavy losses." pg. 31 Sun, Slaves and Sinners, Travels in the Philippines 1964, by Karl Eskelund
----

"... But their natural weapon is the bola (sp note: 'bolo') , or native knife, used in peace and war. 
The one weapon above all other with which they gained such advantage as they did with the Spanish. It has no regulation size or shape. The most common type used in warfare is between two or three feet in length, including the handle, and has a wide, thick blade edged like a guillotine. When wielded by a frantic Philippino in the heat of battle, it is a formidable instrument of death, which is capable of cutting a human head clear from its seat at a single blow, split the body from shoulder to hip, or cleave a skull in twain. At the call to charge, these native troops discard all other weapons and spring to wild attack hand to hand, wield the bola with a terrible effect." Major General Joseph Wheeler, 'The New America and the Far East' page 303. copyright 1901, 1910 
---

"We fear them (Filipino natives) more than we do the Spanish."
Lieu. G.F. Teller 2nd Regiment, Infty, OR USV
Stationed in Cavite, July 18, 1898

---

"Spain *failed* to conquer them because she feared the general hatred of the Moslem for the Christian. Our soldiers will find them to be fierce foes at close quarters. They take great care of their arms. On making an attack they make hideous faces to scare their opponents. They protect their heads and bodies with immense shields, below which their legs are kept vibrating to resist missiles. When bayoneted they seize the barrels of the soldier's muskets and drive the steel further into them, that they may get close enough to kill their adversaries before falling.*...They behead their enemies by a peculiar continuation of the same movement with which they draw their huge knives.* Colonel Hilder, US Army

----
"The courage of the warrior and the skill with which he wielded his weapons always aroused the respect and esteem of the individual in the group." PG. 73 Peoples of the Philippines - by the American historian, Krieger 1942

---

It was a battle on September 13, 1900 where 37 Filipino bolomen led by Maximo Abad defeated an American force of 100 soldiers in one of the few hand to hand skirmishes of that time. The Americans retreated after suffering a lot of casualties and were eventually trapped the next day. Brutality ensued as the bolomen hacked many of the soldiers to pieces before Abad could control them.

It was a serious lesson for the US troops and few hand to hand skirmishes followed after the Pulang Lupa defeat. 


----

General Henry Ware Lawton a hardened Civil War, Apache and Spanish American veteran and Medal of Honor recipient. Under General Miles, Lawton led the expedition that eventually captured another Geronimo... the famous Apache chief on September 1886.

*General Lawton wrote about the Filipinos:

*"Taking into account the disadvantages they have to fight against arms, equipment and military discipline, - without artilley, short of ammunition, powder inferior, shells reloaded until they are defective.... they are the bravest men I have ever seen... What we want is to stop this accursed war... These men are indomitable. "

General Lawton was eventually killed in battle in the Philippines.

---
on the 23rd of July, after five days of non-stop shooting and hand-to-hand fighting, the Spanish defenders finally raised the flag of surrender. 
On July 23, 1989 General Federico J. Cevallos and his Spanish forces capitulated. There was much rejoicing as the Filipino revolutionary forces finally succeeded in booting out the Spaniards from the province of Pangasinan.



And I swear if any of you guys support this guy or peddle his crap youre a loser too and in my books have just lost all credibility as a Martial Artist especially a FMA. (this comment was aimed to un-named persons in another forum who I anticipate do peddle this stuff)


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## Salagubang (Jul 8, 2007)

Great info....


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## ManogSulSog (Jul 8, 2007)

I got one big Question What is this kali crap...??? im a filipino also never heard this kali crap.. in are dialect kali means to "dig" example gusto ko mag kali patatas " I want to dig potatoes" Who name Kali?? i thinks there is no evedince that kali was the oldest term for arnis , Eskrima , Baston , sinawali, or Estocada. Pls inlighten my Question waiting for reply...


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## The Fighting Edge (Jul 9, 2007)

ManogSulSog said:


> I have one big Question What is this kali crap...??? I'm a filipino and I have never heard this kali crap.. in my dialect kali means to "dig". EXAMPLE: gusto ko mag kali patatas " I want to dig potatoes" Who came up with the term Kali?? I thinks there is no evedince that kali was the oldest term for Arnis , Eskrima , Baston , Sinawali, or Estocada. Please enlighten my Question waiting for reply...


 
Oh no... not another one of these debates... Well like it or not this term is in use by most of the FMA practitioners around today... especially in America. Not to down play your Pinoy Pride or FMA's cultural roots

I have even heard from the lips of Ernesto and Remy Presas, and most other big names in the USA FMA world past and present. But here it goes... a few possible clues to the origin of the term "Kali" in reference to FMA. (And besides... spread out over thousands of islands, villages, tons of dialects, and separated between the north and south, etc, etc... is it so unlikely that you wouldn't know the term?)

This was taken from http://www.mabisamartialarts.com/more.htm but I think it's the same info I have seen elsewhere. If you really want a lesson go find SunHelmet/ Tuhon Raphael Kayanan of Sayoc Fighting Systems... he's as much of a scholar on the Philippines as you'll find.

"The last term Kali is always the most controversial. Many martial arts schools and instructors believe the word Kali to be a combination of the words Kamut (hand) and Lihok (movement). It is also believed to be the mother art of Arnis or Escrima but there is a lack of evidence to support this. Kali or Kahli as it is sometimes written, in Visayan is a type of stick, but not used to refer to the fighting art. Kali is also the Hindu Goddess of destruction, and the Moros of the Sulu archipelago would often go into battle dressed like the goddess of destruction. The more believable explanation is from the Tagalog word for a large bladed weapon, Kalis. This was shortened simply to Kali to refer to all bladed weapon. Its use in the West stems from the use of the word by Floro Villabrille who used this term to describe his art, and this was eventually popularised by Dan Inosanto . An interview with Antonio Illustrisimo in 1993 revealed that he only used the word out of convenience because foreign students recognized it, although he preferred the term Escrima because this is what it was called when he was learning from his uncles."

Much like Ninjitsu, Kung Fu, Karate, Wrestling... Kali is just a blanket term that has been adopted to describe a plethora of arts. Is it the mother art? or just a term that has been adopted by one of these suggested origins? Who knows... but it has been adopted so your going to have to live with it! "Your" art now belongs to the world and I would dare say that there are more people aware of it outside of the Philippines than in it, thanks to karate and tae kwon do and the cultures who brought them. It's a rare Filipino that I meet that knows anything more than... "Oh, that stick stuff... nah... I did Tae Kwon Do. Only thugs, punks and criminals do that." (at least that was my Filipino mother in laws view of FMA... Apparently it lacks the "honorable" mystique that is attributed to other arts for some reason).

For that matter what is the Philippines? Ever consider the origin of that name and whether or not you want to use it? Why not go with the pre-invasion names? Because it's just a name and it's easier to use than what came before and makes it easy to label it as a whole. If arnis is used for or in "x" and escrima/eskrima is used over or referring to "y"... and Kali just refers to all FMA... whats that hurt and why must it be refered to as "crap"?

If you have been around enough to be on this board... I am sure your justing baiting the issue.


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## The Fighting Edge (Jul 9, 2007)

Here is that same articles references to the terms Arnis and Escrima...

The History of the Philippines is a long one, with records stretching back to as far as 900AD .

In the case of the Filipino martial arts, when examining the history of the Philippines as a nation, it is clear that fighting arts have always been an integral part of the Filipino society. The fighting arts of the Philippines, like in many other places, were influenced by many different cultures and made uniquely Filipino by the Filipinos and there weapon systems and surroundings.

Spanish rule in the Philippines lasted until 1898 when Spain was defeated in the Spanish-American war. During this long period of colonization, the Spanish had some important effects on the Filipino culture. Firstly, most of the population was converted to Roman Catholicism except for the Muslim Moros of the Sulu archipelago. Spanish fencing also had a direct effect on the fighting arts of the Philippines, with the introduction of angles of attack, and the use of Espada y daga (sword and dagger) . When the Spanish imposed a ban on the practice of all native fighting arts and the carrying of bladed weapons during their occupation of the islands, the Filipinos were forced to substitute the use of the sword with that of the rattan. In the beginning the rattan was used to deliver strikes in the same manner as the blade i.e. slashing and thrusting, and the knife (or short stick) was still held in reserve as a back up weapon in case the opponent closed the distance, typical of it's use by the Spanish. Hardly ever was it used to block or parry an oncoming strike. However through time the Filipinos began to realise that because the stick had different handling qualities, certain lines of attack were open to them that were not available with the swords, curved and snapping strikes. Once they began to appreciate the combat effectiveness of the stick the use of the knife also changed and began to be used more aggressively in terms of blocking, parrying, checking, scooping, thrusting and slashing. This in turn led to the creation of Olisi y baraw (stick and dagger).
 
I have heard that the term eskrima was derived from the spanish word esgrima, or possibly from the word skirmish(a short unexpected fight). Arnis de mano was said to be derived from the Spanish word arnes meaning trappings or defensive armor. Other literature said the term Arnis is a bastardised form of the word Arnes which refers to the decorative harnesses used by the actors in moro-moro stage displays. De mano simply means hands, and so a literal translation of Arnis de mano turns into 'harness of hand'. The manipulation of these harnesses during the stage plays impressed the Spanish who dubbed it Arnes de mano. The style Arnis, a Spanish term itself, uses many Spanish terms to describe its techniques such as Espada y daga​So given these possibilities is it better to use the Spanish terms or Kali? It's just a matter of language and usage.


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## arnisador (Jul 10, 2007)

ManogSulSog said:


> I got one big Question What is this kali crap...??? im a filipino also never heard this kali crap..



There are many names for the FMAs in the Philippines, but relatively few are widely used here in the States.


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## Doc_Jude (Jul 12, 2007)

Salagubang said:


> And although Kali stick fighting looks impressive tothe untrained eye, I have yet to hear of one person beaten to death by a pair of Escrima sticks.
> 
> All said and done, someone armed with an ordinary wooden baseball bat or axe handle, could undoubtedly finish off one of these so called ???dangerous?? stick fighters in a heartbeat.



I recently saw a vid of Sonny Umpad
http://dogbrothers.com/product_info.php?products_id=123&osCsid=9dd11923a78a15587dd0d2ddb6e2a061
and at about 1:35 you can see this little skinny guy executing stick strikes with bone-breaking force on a protected opponent.

There is no doubt in my mind that an escrimador could kill with ironwood sticks or whatever hard wood he used for his battle sticks. 
None whatsoever.


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## Trent (Jul 12, 2007)

Reading some of the posts I don't think that some people realize that escrima sticks (i.e. rattan) _are _the practice sticks.  For some styles of Filipino arts they take the place of hardwood sticks, and for others they take the place of blades, or both.  I've knocked out people with rattan and been knocked goofy through padded headgear with the training sticks--rattan.  Had I, or anyone else, been using good old hickory, ash, ironwood, or whatever hardwood was available with the proper size and weight, bones would have easily been broken or much worse and that's using padded headgear.  I've had fingers broken through gloves and toes broken through shoes with the other person using rattan as well.

I don't think someone knows what in the world they are talking about regarding Filipino martial arts.


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## Andy Moynihan (Aug 1, 2007)

So if it's Top Secret Training, why's it got its own uncrypted, viewable-by-anyone website that so blatantly announces that it is "Top Secret Training".


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## Carol (Aug 1, 2007)

Andy Moynihan said:


> So if it's Top Secret Training, why's it got its own uncrypted, viewable-by-anyone website that so blatantly announces that it is "Top Secret Training".



Shhhhh!!!!!  :lfao:


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## Karatedrifter7 (Aug 2, 2007)

Sounds like the Conquistador, I expect to see Hernan Cortes stabbing Montezuma, or somebody.
Of course a sword is going to trump an Escrima stick, and a basball bat is thicker. But this is rock, paper, scissors, he's talking about. A crossbow can trump them all. But when was the last time you saw somebody on the bus with one of those? I think the beauty of the Escrima stick, especially the short ones, is that they can be concealed. And I like the fact that you don't hear about somebody being beaten to death by one of them. Its a less dangerous self defense tool. 
Thats my two cents.


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## kaizasosei (Aug 2, 2007)

i think that saying conquered people is not a good thing.  it is generally rude and thoughtless to comment in such negative ways. fortunately for your sake the natives of the land in question are mostly a very forgiving and understanding people.  i wouldn't want to get on anyones bad side just because of saying silly remarks like that.
many militants have run into serious problems in the philippines. -which is also a place where many a tough guy has tumbled..(myself included)- 

about the baseball bat against stix, well, ofcourse the bat may be heavier than most escrima sticks, the sticks are obvioustly faster plus you have two...i think it would be relatively easy for a master to kill with one solid blow.  now i do know some practitioners of escrima, i have no formal instruction. i dunno if you are some kind of baseball bat master so i don't want to dis your art too much, but if i had to choose, id myself would honestly choose the sticks-maybe even the lighter kind made of rattan.



j


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