# Thoughts on private lessons



## seninoniwashi (Dec 14, 2008)

Heya guys and gals,

I'd like your thoughts whether your background is Kenpo or not. I've been practicing outside of a formal school for awhile now as I just don't have the money or time for the large classes. My focus is to revisit all the techniques I've learned up to brown belt and then join back into a formal school. I figure by that time I'll have the money and time to enjoy a formal class by then.

A few years ago I joined a larger school to get refreshed on what I knew but felt it was a waste of time as I was mixed in with lower belts and found myself doing delayed sword and triggered salute over and over and when mixed in with the more advanced belts I found myself overwhelmed getting stuck with techniques like leap of faith and not feeling solid on my basics - feeling almost unworthy working these advanced techniques and forms without rebuilding my basics.

What are everyone's thoughts on private lessons? When I was younger I was against them but they seem to be very fitting for what I need now - just, a bit more expensive then I'd like. One school offers them at $30/hr however there are two other instructors in the area I'm thinking about approaching with a lower proposal. Does anyone out there know of any good Kenpo instructors in the Northern Idaho or Spokane Washington area? 

Also, from an instructors point of view - how much do you all charge for private lessons? Would $10 - 15 /hour be acceptable?
 
Thanks for any and all responses given.


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## Blindside (Dec 15, 2008)

seninoniwashi said:


> Heya guys and gals,
> 
> I'd like your thoughts whether your background is Kenpo or not. I've been practicing outside of a formal school for awhile now as I just don't have the money or time for the large classes. My focus is to revisit all the techniques I've learned up to brown belt and then join back into a formal school. I figure by that time I'll have the money and time to enjoy a formal class by then.
> 
> ...



I'm all for private lessons, I think students learn faster and retain more with personalized instruction.  I charge $40, and I cut that down because I don't live in a highly affluent community.  Take a look around at what private lessons in ballroom dancing or gymnastics cost.  In 2009 the WA state minimum wage will be $8.55, so you'll be offering some instructor $1.45 over minimum wage to give you private lessons, good luck with that.  

I'm don't think I'm being money hungry, or greedy at all, I simply calculate what my time is worth and that is what I charge.  I would be far more willing to give a discount to people who were my regular students and had money problems than a relative stranger.


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## JadecloudAlchemist (Dec 15, 2008)

I only train private lessons because that is how my teacher teaches.

I enjoy it more because I can ask all the stupid questions I want.

In a larger class setting I get lost and I need extra attention.

I think $10-15 is pretty cheap. I would most likely train in any art for $10-15 hr. I have paided average $30 but I have also paided $100 an hr.

Depending on the teacher's experience and how rare or popular the style usually will get you in the higher $$$.


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## stickarts (Dec 15, 2008)

I have been taking private lessons now for 20+ years. They have made a huge difference in my progress and i encourage them.


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## RevIV (Dec 15, 2008)

$40 - a half hour is what I charge if you sign up for only one lesson.  4 lessons for $100.  but thats if you are a current student.  $10. for a private lesson, I am assuming these instuctors do not have a dojo where they pay rent? or insurance?


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## KenpoDave (Dec 15, 2008)

I am a big fan of privates, both as teacher and student.  I have never paid or charged less than $40/hour.  What I typically see now is ~$30/half-hour.

$10-15/hour?  Seems awfully low, unless you are already paying for a membership at the studio and the $10-$15 is additional.  For example, if you are paying $60/month already, and tack on $40/month additional for privates, then I feel you are right in the ballpark.


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## MJS (Dec 15, 2008)

seninoniwashi said:


> Heya guys and gals,
> 
> I'd like your thoughts whether your background is Kenpo or not. I've been practicing outside of a formal school for awhile now as I just don't have the money or time for the large classes. My focus is to revisit all the techniques I've learned up to brown belt and then join back into a formal school. I figure by that time I'll have the money and time to enjoy a formal class by then.
> 
> ...


 
I'm all for private lessons!  I take them and I think that they're great.  Of course, they have their plus/minus side.  The plus side, is that you can work whatever you want, at your own pace.  Downside is that unless you split the lesson with another student, the only person you have to work with is the inst.  Now, thats not a bad thing, but it may be difficult at times, to make corrections or show things if you are the only person.  

As for the cost...that will vary.  $20-$60 usually seems like the norm, although I've seen higher.  It also depends on how long the lesson is.  If someone tried to charge $60 for 30min, I'd probably walk away.  The typical time frame is 1hr.


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## Twin Fist (Dec 15, 2008)

i wouldnt teach someone for $10 an hour.

not worth my time.

in my area, i might do it for $20 an hour if i know they have money issues.

normally, i would charge $30 an hour.


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## KenpoDave (Dec 15, 2008)

Another thought from your original post...

To paraphrase, you get bored doing the beginner stuff like Delayed Sword and Triggered Salute over and over, but overwhelmed with the advanced stuff.  There seems to be a disconnect there, and my advice would be to stick with the repetition of the beginning material.  Of course, it could be that you are ingraining the principles incorrectly, leading to gaps in skill with more complicated material.  

If you have material that you know, why not work it on your own, and try and get with an instructor once a month or so to get tweaked and make sure you are not putting any bad habits into muscle memory.

And try and find a workout partner!


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## KELLYG (Dec 15, 2008)

I've taken private lessons in the past and found them to be very valuable. I gives you a chance to work on what you, as an individual, need to work on. I took private lessons before Dan testing  so that I could work on the small details.  It worked out well and I was pleased with the results.


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## MattJ (Dec 15, 2008)

$30/hr for private lessons is very reasonable IMHO.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Dec 15, 2008)

Private lessons are a great way to supplement your regular group training sessions.  Personally I am all for small classes. (2 to 6 people)  Add on a few privates here and there and you can really get some depth into your practice!


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## Rich Parsons (Dec 15, 2008)

seninoniwashi said:


> Heya guys and gals,
> 
> I'd like your thoughts whether your background is Kenpo or not. I've been practicing outside of a formal school for awhile now as I just don't have the money or time for the large classes. My focus is to revisit all the techniques I've learned up to brown belt and then join back into a formal school. I figure by that time I'll have the money and time to enjoy a formal class by then.
> 
> ...


 

Private Lessons Rock!

$30 / hour is good for our area. Most charge $40 on the low end to $55 or more. I have been know to charge less for dedicated people, in particular those who had trained with my instructor as well, but were no longer able too but needed some more education. I did like a family discount. But I never went down to $10-15/ hour.


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## seninoniwashi (Dec 16, 2008)

Blindside said:


> In 2009 the WA state minimum wage will be $8.55, so you'll be offering some instructor $1.45 over minimum wage to give you private lessons, good luck with that.


 
You make a real good point Blindside, I haven't looked at it from that angle yet - paying for their time on an hourly basis is what I need to look at. Thanks for the reply Blindside, it was good input.


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## seninoniwashi (Dec 16, 2008)

RevIV said:


> $40 - a half hour is what I charge if you sign up for only one lesson. 4 lessons for $100. but thats if you are a current student. $10. for a private lesson, I am assuming these instuctors do not have a dojo where they pay rent? or insurance?


 
The prices I listed were what I was going to request of some of these instructors. I'm really glad I got everyone's thoughts beforehand, the last thing I want to do is offend someone.


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## seninoniwashi (Dec 16, 2008)

MJS said:


> Downside is that unless you split the lesson with another student, the only person you have to work with is the inst. Now, thats not a bad thing, but it may be difficult at times, to make corrections or show things if you are the only person.


 
That's a real good point. Training outside of a dojo for the last year there's two things I need to work on - one is review of the techniques and forms I've already learned. Once I get these down then I'll be ready to start back up with a formal class. Second, I need to work on my sparring, getting a feel for how I open and close the distance, ect. This would be hard to accomplish when working with just the instructor. Alot of this I do with friends I have over when we're monkeying around but nothing compares to the diversity I got when I was at the dojo sparring.


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## seninoniwashi (Dec 16, 2008)

KenpoDave said:


> To paraphrase, you get bored doing the beginner stuff like Delayed Sword and Triggered Salute over and over, but overwhelmed with the advanced stuff. There seems to be a disconnect there, and my advice would be to stick with the repetition of the beginning material. Of course, it could be that you are ingraining the principles incorrectly, leading to gaps in skill with more complicated material.


 
Its not so much the technique itself that overwhelms me, its the fact that Im practicing techniques and forms from higher belts when the middle belt techs and forms Im not feeling comfortable with. I have no problems reviewing the techniques and re-learning them - I just feel like my attention should be elsewhere.


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## Flying Crane (Dec 16, 2008)

I have two different arrangements going on.  

The first one is with my kungfu sifu.  He runs a taiji class made up mostly of middle-aged or older people who are simply looking for exercise.  This class is offered thru the local community college, and is free for the public.  He gets paid by the community college for teaching this class.  I've trained taiji with him, but my main interests lie in the external arts.  So he takes time on the side to teach me a bunch of stuff that he doesn't teach in the regular classes.  Sometimes he gives me a lot of time, other times he can't do so I get less time with him.  But I can always ask questions and get clarification, and in the meantime I am learning things that he doesn't teach to just anyone.  He charges $25 per session, when I train with him.  It's not exactly a private lesson with a fixed time period.  Rather, it's for simply taking the time away from the regular class to teach things not on the regular curriculum.  I've been training with him this way for about 11 or 12 years, and I've learned a lot from him in this way.  I certainly don't begrudge the money, and I've learned some great stuff that not too many other people have had the chance to learn.  It works well for me and I'm grateful for the opportunity.

The other situation is with my kenpo teacher.  He isn't trying to make a living thru teaching, so he charges a very very very reasonable monthly fee for classes.  Our group is fairly small, so we all get private, or almost-private instruction from him as he moves from person to person and gives them instruction appropriate for their level.  This is how the first half or more of class runs.  Then, the last hour or half hour is group training.  So for a very reasonable group fee, we all get "almost" private instruction.

I find both methods to work very well.

I've trained in schools with a much larger body of students, like 30 or 40 in a session.  It's crowded.  It works, but it's really more like a group workout session.  Often the teacher would break us up into groups depending on our level, and would have us work on material appropriate for that level.  This method also works, but it's nothing like gettting private instruction.

I talked to another instructor a number of years ago, who told me he charges $50 per half hour, with a one hour minimum per session, and he only teaches privately out of his garage.  Seemed like a lot to me at the time, and this was a good dozen or so years ago.

Private instruction can be great.  What is a reasonable fee depends on a lot of factors.  I suspect the instructor would need to consider your request, and decide for himself how much he would wish to charge, if he agrees to do so.


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## jarrod (Dec 16, 2008)

private lessons are a great supplement to group training.  they can also be effective as your primary training, but imo you need to spar with a variety of people, since even students from the same school will fight differently.  

i charge $30/hr, & i feel that price is a very good bargain.  to my knowledge, that is the lowest price in the area & i won't go lower.  this is speaking as someone who _loves_ teaching, & makes very little money from his regular class.  it's just not worth it for me to spend that hour away from my family or my own training for any less than that.  honestly i'd be a little insulted if someone offered me $10 an hour.  as a student, i've haggled class fees but never private lesson fees.  it's kind of like telling the instructor that you don't think his time is worth very much.    

i do allow & encourage my private lesson students to split a class so that they can both have a technique done to them & also see it.  plus i can watch for mistakes more easily, & that drops the price down to $15 for each of them.  some instructors will ask for a price increase if you share a lesson though.  so an instructor who charges $30/hr for one person might charge $40/hr for two people.  



jf


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## GBlues (Dec 16, 2008)

Just to be the jerk in the forum, what's wrong with 10-15 dollars an hour for a lesson? Hell, I have to work all day long for 14 dollars an hour. At the height of my drilling carreer i was making 17, and that was a good company. So why are prices so expensive for hourly private lessons. Yes your getting one on one attention, but the same is true if you asked me to paint your house. You would ask, well, your just painting the outside why does it cost a thousand dollars? The answer cause that's what it costs, course you could buy the paint for 400 bucks rent a rig for 75 a day, get the masking machine which is about 30 bucks plus, the masking paper another 20-30 bucks a couple rolls of tape for maybe 15 and walla for roughly 5 to 600 bucks your painting your house. Course I could do it better, but you saved yourself 400 bucks. And it would only take me a day, where some one that doesn't do it all the time it might take you two. So when people start talking about 30 dollars per half hour, and 60 dollars an hour, or half hour, your talking a half a day or full days wage from somebodies pocket book for you to do an hours worth of work. How is that right? Just playing devils advocate. Here.


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## seninoniwashi (Dec 16, 2008)

jarrod said:


> honestly i'd be a little insulted if someone offered me $10 an hour. as a student, i've haggled class fees but never private lesson fees. it's kind of like telling the instructor that you don't think his time is worth very much.


 
Yeah, and that's the last thing I want to do is offend someone or make it seem like I'm begging for instruction or trying to lay down a guilt trip. It's just a matter of how much I can spend right now - times are hard and we're all trying to stretch the dollar - I think we're all feeling that one.


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## Blindside (Dec 16, 2008)

GBlues said:


> Just to be the jerk in the forum, what's wrong with 10-15 dollars an hour for a lesson? Hell, I have to work all day long for 14 dollars an hour.


 
There is nothing wrong with it.  I had one instructor who literally charged me a 16 oz. pepsi per 1.5 hours, I had another who charged me $5/hour.  Its just a question of how much you value your time.  Every hour that I spend at martial arts is an hour away from my family that I could be working and generating needed funds, I set my hourly rate at about OT rate from my day job.

My regular students standard fees include a weekly half-hour private that if you calculate it out, is much reduced from my normal private lesson fee.


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## Blindside (Dec 16, 2008)

seninoniwashi said:


> Its not so much the technique itself that overwhelms me, its the fact that Im practicing techniques and forms from higher belts when the middle belt techs and forms Im not feeling comfortable with. I have no problems reviewing the techniques and re-learning them - I just feel like my attention should be elsewhere.


 
What you need to do is find some high school aged brown belt at one of the schools that would be happy to train you at $15/hour under the table.  This would probably have to be from a school that doesn't normally offer privates, because otherwise they would be under-cutting themselves.


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## championmarius (Dec 16, 2008)

I live on private training, both giving and getting. I've dropped some serious coin to spend a few hours absorbing info from some wonderful guys, I've also gotten away with a song or traded knowledge.

For what I teach, I just try to get enough to cover the gas to get to the student, and maybe put a few bucks in my pocket, and/or keep my MA supplies in good order. I go with 20 bucks for the first hour each session and then ten bucks each hour after.

Given how much time, and ultimately, money, I've invested in my MA journey, I might be giving what I got away, but I don't care.

Its not my primary income, just "movie money", or new video game cash. I like teaching what I know, thats my real reason for it. I just needed justification for driving all over Gods green acre to do it.


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## RevIV (Dec 17, 2008)

GBlues said:


> Just to be the jerk in the forum, what's wrong with 10-15 dollars an hour for a lesson? Hell, I have to work all day long for 14 dollars an hour. At the height of my drilling carreer i was making 17, and that was a good company. So why are prices so expensive for hourly private lessons. Yes your getting one on one attention, but the same is true if you asked me to paint your house. You would ask, well, your just painting the outside why does it cost a thousand dollars? The answer cause that's what it costs, course you could buy the paint for 400 bucks rent a rig for 75 a day, get the masking machine which is about 30 bucks plus, the masking paper another 20-30 bucks a couple rolls of tape for maybe 15 and walla for roughly 5 to 600 bucks your painting your house. Course I could do it better, but you saved yourself 400 bucks. And it would only take me a day, where some one that doesn't do it all the time it might take you two. So when people start talking about 30 dollars per half hour, and 60 dollars an hour, or half hour, your talking a half a day or full days wage from somebodies pocket book for you to do an hours worth of work. How is that right? Just playing devils advocate. Here.


 

People who can afford it come to me those who cant go to the $10. an hour guy in his garage. I may be different then others on this forum but this is my only income,  I live right outside of Boston Ma. and things are just damn epensive here. I grew up in Syracuse NY where you can get a really nice house for 100k,  here you could not get a condemned house for 100k


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## Kwanjang (Dec 17, 2008)

I teach several people private lessons exclusively. My rate is $75.00 per hour.


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## RevIV (Dec 17, 2008)

nice on the $75.  
See martial arts is an extra in peoples lives.  Some may make there lives out of if, and if they do they do not mind paying for it.  Think of what a personal trainer gets an hour,  then if you upgrade to a strength trainer your getting like $150 an hour.   I have dedicated the last 20 years of my life to martial arts and I think that deserves  more money then someone who has been doing it for 4 years.  People go to college to get more money,  most people who want more money either continue in there education or perfect their trade,, either way they get more.


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## MJS (Dec 17, 2008)

Something else to consider....who is teaching the lesson and is the art rare in a particular area?  For example, some instructors offer a set fee, in addition to a block of lessons.  At the Gracie academy, we see $80 for 30min with a purple belt, $100 with a brown, $150 with a black and a whopping $400 with a red.  A friend of mine is a purple belt in BJJ under Roy Harris and charges $60 for an hour.  In this case, the thing you're mainly paying for is the Gracie name, IMO.  I can get a damn good lesson with my friend and he's about a 10-15 min drive from my house.

Now, if someone opened a school and taught something that was limited in your area, well, he could probably get away with charging a bit more, due to that fact.  Ex:  AFAIK, there are no Kajukenbo schools in my area.  So, if one opened, well, short of flying to another state......see what I mean?


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## KenpoDave (Dec 17, 2008)

seninoniwashi said:


> Its not so much the technique itself that overwhelms me, its the fact that Im practicing techniques and forms from higher belts when the middle belt techs and forms Im not feeling comfortable with. I have no problems reviewing the techniques and re-learning them - I just feel like my attention should be elsewhere.


 
Have you learned the stuff in the middle?


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## John Bishop (Dec 17, 2008)

It's all relative to what you and others think your teaching is worth.  I've willingly given away hundreds of hours of private lessons over the years.  One particular person got 2 hours of privates with me every friday for 6 months.  And I drove out to his dojo to do it.  Enjoyed his company, and discussions.  And we took turns buying lunch after each session.  I'm sure he would have been happy to give me privates in his system if I had asked.  
And then there was the school owner that refused to pay me anything less then $150.00 a hour for the 6 hours of privates he had.


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## RevIV (Dec 17, 2008)

John Bishop said:


> It's all relative to what you and others think your teaching is worth. I've willingly given away hundreds of hours of private lessons over the years. One particular person got 2 hours of privates with me every friday for 6 months. And I drove out to his dojo to do it. Enjoyed his company, and discussions. And we took turns buying lunch after each session. I'm sure he would have been happy to give me privates in his system if I had asked.
> And then there was the school owner that refused to pay me anything less then $150.00 a hour for the 6 hours of privates he had.


 
There are no black and whites and I do the same thing.  I have not paid my teacher a penny since I was 14 for lessons.  I do treat him well when he is here and when he helps me with testing or seminars I give him as much as I can.  Same goes for some of my students and friends some pay some do not.  Some get twice as many privates for the same price.


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## SteffenBerg (Dec 17, 2008)

During my American Kenpo days we got one private per week in addition to the group classes. I always like that format. You got to learn and review the curriculum during the private lesson, then get to "train" during the regular classes. I think it's key to train in a group setting (even if it's a small group of three or four individuals) since everybody moves differently, hence your timing and distancing will be different with every person. 

Even now, most of my learning is done privately, but I train in a group setting to work on what I've learned. 

Just my 2 cents.

Stef


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## jarrod (Dec 19, 2008)

GBlues said:


> Just to be the jerk in the forum, what's wrong with 10-15 dollars an hour for a lesson? Hell, I have to work all day long for 14 dollars an hour.
> 
> *not being a jerk at all, never hurts to have a devil's advocate.*
> 
> ...


 
all the best!

jf


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## seninoniwashi (Mar 20, 2009)

SteffenBerg said:


> During my American Kenpo days we got one private per week in addition to the group classes. I always like that format. You got to learn and review the curriculum during the private lesson, then get to "train" during the regular classes. I think it's key to train in a group setting (even if it's a small group of three or four individuals) since everybody moves differently, hence your timing and distancing will be different with every person.
> 
> Even now, most of my learning is done privately, but I train in a group setting to work on what I've learned.
> 
> ...


 
That's a real good idea! Unfortunately I haven't come across a place that will do that. It's typically $20 additional to the monthly fee per class. I would take that approach if I was to have a school of my own, I think the students would feel more engaged. I have been to a few schools where the instructors barely know your name. It seems like some places privates are the only way to get ahead.


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## kosho (Mar 23, 2009)

I charge $30.00 for 1 hour. If you pay for 10 all at once I charge $200.00
so thats $20.00 per class and you have 1 year to use them up from the date paid for. If you are a current student. If not I charge the $30.00 for 45 min. for just my Private students. The avg. time frame that a student use's the private class in about 6 weeks. then they get 10 more. for the $200.00 price tag. 
My self I have paid 30, 50 and 100 for a 1 hour class before...

Kosho


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