# More clarification required



## Datu Tim Hartman (Jul 21, 2013)

I don't understand where this is coming from. I won't speak for the MoTTs, but I don't recall ever saying this.



> The MoTTs (Masters of Tapi-Tapi) and the WMAA (World Modern Arnis Alliance) leaderships were adamant that anyone not associated with their respective groups were not even considered as being Modern Arnis Players, unless those people joined their groups and retested for the rank grades that were earned under Professor Presas.


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## Bob Hubbard (Jul 21, 2013)

Been years since I was involved in this stuff, and I've flushed a lot from memory. I recall a few people way back saying that Delaney was requiring a retest to have rank recognized, even rank awarded by Remy. I vaguely recall seeing it in writing, I think on his website, but memory is hazy.  I don't recall a retest for current rank recognition ever being a condition with the WMAA though I do remember a few people (Dan Anderson being one) who were asked to test/demo for a promotion. As to the MOTT's, I don't recall retests for acknowledgement ever being mentioned in regards to them.  MARPPIO may also have a retest requirement as I think I recall it was mentioned. Again, dusty memory here


ok, was bored.


> As of January 1, 2001 all Rank Certificates must bear          the signatures of Co-Grandmasters Jeff Delaney or Dr. Randi Schea.
> Affiliated Schools only can award rank through Green          Belt if rank fees are paid to the IMAF and certificates are issued directly          by the IMAF. Rank of Brown Belt and above can only be awarded at Summer          or Winter training camps and Certificates will be issued by the IMAF bearing          the signatures of Co-Grandmasters Jeff Delaney or Dr. Randi Schea. Certificates          awarded by organizations other than the IMAF and not bearing the signatures          of Jeff Delaney or Dr. Randi Schea will not be considered valid.


modernarnis.com April 2001



> As of January 1, 2001 all Rank Certificates must bear          the signatures of Co-Grandmasters Jeff Delaney or Dr. Randi Schea and          an IMAF Certificate Number..
> *Affiliated Schools* only          can award rank through Green Belt if rank fees are paid to the IMAF and          numbered certificates are issued directly by the IMAF. Rank of Brown Belt          and above can only be awarded at Summer or Winter training camps and Certificates          will be issued by the IMAF bearing the signatures of Co-Grandmasters Jeff          Delaney or Dr. Randi Schea. Certificates awarded by organizations other          than the IMAF and not bearing the signatures of Jeff Delaney or Dr. Randi          Schea and an IMAF certificate number will not be considered valid. To          test for Rank of Brown Belt or above you must be a current member of the          IMAF.


August 2001

and current version on Jeff's site http://www.professorpresas.com/Ranking.htm


> As of January 1, 2001 all Rank Certificates          must bear the signature of Grandmaster Jeff Delaney and include an IMAF          Certificate Number..
> *Affiliated Schools*          only can award rank through Green Belt if rank fees are paid to the IMAF          and numbered certificates are issued directly by the IMAF. Rank of Brown          Belt and above can only be awarded at Summer or Winter training camps          and Certificates will be issued by the IMAF bearing the signatures of          Grandmaster Jeff Delaney and at least one other member of th I. M. A.          F. Board of Directors. Certificates awarded by organizations other than          the I.M.A.F. and not bearing the signature of Jeff Delaney and an IMAF          certificate number will not be considered valid. To test for Rank of Brown          Belt or above you must be a current member of the I.M.A.F.


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## arnisador (Jul 22, 2013)

Datu Tim Hartman said:


> I don't understand where this is coming from. I won't speak for the MoTTs, but I don't recall ever saying this.



The WMAA has always said just the opposite--if the Prof. gave it to you, the WMAA respects it.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Jul 22, 2013)

arnisador said:


> The WMAA has always said just the opposite--if the Prof. gave it to you, the WMAA respects it.



That is the way it should be period!!!


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## Bob Hubbard (Jul 22, 2013)

Question, did IMAF ranks under Remy expire?


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## Guro Harold (Jul 22, 2013)

Bob Hubbard said:


> Question, did IMAF ranks under Remy expire?


There was an expiration date on some certificates from what I recall.


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## James Miller (Jul 22, 2013)

Some do and others don't. None of mine have experation dates on them.


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## arnisador (Jul 22, 2013)

Guro Harold said:


> There was an expiration date on some certificates from what I recall.





James Miller said:


> Some do and others don't. None of mine have experation dates on them.



That's my recollection too. Some did, some didn't, and if there was a pattern I don't know what it was. I think one of my lakan levels had an expiry date and another didn't but I can't recall for sure.


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## Dan Anderson (Jul 26, 2013)

Datu Tim Hartman said:


> I don't understand where this is coming from. I won't speak for the MoTTs, but I don't recall ever saying this.  _The MoTTs (Masters of Tapi-Tapi) and the WMAA (World Modern Arnis Alliance) leaderships were adamant that anyone not associated with their respective groups were not even considered as being Modern Arnis Players, unless those people joined their groups and retested for the rank grades that were earned under Professor Presas._



Since my illustrious name was brought up I will add my wisdom to this thread.

1.  Tim has never _not_ recognized either my rank or my being a Modern Arnis player.  This is before my very brief stint with WMAA and fully after.

2.  IMAF has never _not_ recognized either my rank or my being a Modern Arnis player.  Despite my not being an active member of IMAF for many years, I have been treated with respect as a fellow RP student and Modern Arnis colleague.  Some of the leaders I am closer to than others but that is only because of personal interaction and NOT because of organizational affiliation.  An interesting aside, in a MT thread, David Hoffman (the forgotten Datu) stated that IMAF had never considered me not a member.

3.  The retest issue came from Remy P. Presas Jr.  He was doing a seminar up in Bellingham, Washington at Myrlino Hufana's school.  I went to pay my respects to him and the other kids.  During dinner I asked him about if someone joined MARPPIO who had already had rank from his father, would they recognize that rank. He told me that anyone joining MARPPIO who had a certificate of rank from his dad (remember him, the founder of Modern Arnis?), would have their rank honored as an honorary rank until they came up to MARPPIO's standards.  Cute little guy.  I remember watching him teach and demo and saw that the son was not the father...not even close.  Rodel Dagooc, however, was lightning fast and very explosive.  he was the main stick at that seminar.  Anyway, being the swell fellow that I am, I refrained from any reaction that would be considered outwardly negative, merely acknowledged his statement, and continued with dinner.  Honest folks, that is what happened.

Yerf, I say.

Yours,
Dan Anderson


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## Brian Johns (Jul 30, 2013)

Datu Tim Hartman said:


> I don't understand where this is coming from. I won't speak for the MoTTs, but I don't recall ever saying this.



Where did the quote come from? 

Regards,
Brian Johns


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## Datu Tim Hartman (Aug 1, 2013)

I'ts from Jerome Barber. You can find it here Brian.

http://seasian-martialarts.blogspot.com/


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## Brian Johns (Aug 2, 2013)

Thank. All I can say is wow to that statement. While I recall it may be true for the Jeff Delaney group, it is not true of the group of Masters of Tapi Tapi that I'm with. In fact, I've not heard them discuss this issue for YEARS and probably for an entire decade. 

This also caught my eye: "Equally important is the fact that these group leaders were equally, if not more disdainful of GM Atillo."    If "these group leaders" that Dr. Barber was referring to includes the  MoTTs, he must have had a special insight into the MoTTs' thinking. To the best of my  recollection, there has not been a discussion among them about GM  Atillo.

Regards,
Brian Johns


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## Tgace (Aug 2, 2013)

Isn't this the same person and even the same blog post being discussed in another thread? Why not keep it all together?


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## Bob Hubbard (Aug 2, 2013)

IMO, it's a separate issue (rank retesting in arnis) and combining them would muddy the other (who founded balintawak/etc).


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## Datu Tim Hartman (Aug 2, 2013)

Because this statement is about Modern Arnis. 



Tgace said:


> Isn't this the same person and even the same blog post being discussed in another thread? Why not keep it all together?


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## Datu Tim Hartman (Aug 2, 2013)

Brian Johns said:


> Thank. All I can say is wow to that statement. While I recall it may be true for the Jeff Delaney group, it is not true of the group of Masters of Tapi Tapi that I'm with. In fact, I've not heard them discuss this issue for YEARS and probably for an entire decade.
> 
> This also caught my eye: "Equally important is the fact that these group leaders were equally, if not more disdainful of GM Atillo."    If "these group leaders" that Dr. Barber was referring to includes the  MoTTs, he must have had a special insight into the MoTTs' thinking. To the best of my  recollection, there has not been a discussion among them about GM  Atillo.
> 
> ...



Everyone has their own perception of reality. Some more off base than others.


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## Brian Johns (Aug 2, 2013)

I received a private email from a certain individual. I do not see why it was taken private and think that it could have been discussed publicly.

My answer is as follows:

The matter is not closed.

You conceded that any statement regarding rank made by Jeff Delaney or Dr. Schea occurred 11 or 12 years ago. I do not see the relevance of that issue to the recent promotion by GM Ising of a number of people. I congratulate them. 

Secondly, the message ignored my statement regarding this: "Equally important is the fact that these group leaders were equally, if not more disdainful of GM Atillo."

I pointed out that none of the MoTTs had ever mentioned GM Atillo, to  the best of my memory. On what basis is this statement made?

Regards,
Brian Johns


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## Datu Tim Hartman (Aug 3, 2013)

I&#8217;m not sure what Jerome&#8217;s talking about with Atillo. I get along with him fairly well. We&#8217;ve talked many times on the phone, I&#8217;ve offered the use of my school if he ever wanted to teach a seminar here in Buffalo. We&#8217;re FB friends and I was supposed to teach with him last year at Prof Bates&#8217; camp, unfortunately he had to back out due to a schedule conflict with a family function. We did have a disagreement about 8 &#8211; 9 years ago, but if that was still an issue we wouldn&#8217;t have agree to teach with each other last year.


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## MJS (Aug 6, 2013)

Datu Tim Hartman said:


> I'ts from Jerome Barber. You can find it here Brian.
> 
> http://seasian-martialarts.blogspot.com/



LOL...well, that says it all! 

For the time that I've been a part of the IMAF Inc. and training with Brian Z., I've never heard or seen any such thing.  I'd imagine that, just like any org., if you join, your rank will still be acknowledged, but you'll have to now transition to the way that group does things.


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