# Jackie Chan On MMA



## The Elemental (Feb 4, 2010)

http://www.sherdog.com/news/articles/Jackie-Chan-Does-Not-Like-MMA-22150



> Chan said. As a martial artist, I find it too violent putting them in a cage. At the end, its not fighting anymore. Thats not the martial arts. Martial arts is about respect. When somebody is knocked down, stop. I really respect Sugar Ray Leonard. Come on, [when a guy is down] stop. Dont fight. Thats not the spirit. When youre down, Ill grab you up. Are you okay? Should we continue? Thats the martial arts spirit. Thats what I want
> 
> Martial arts is the practice of self defense. That includes taking action when your opponent hits the ground. Its no more disrespectful to hit a guy on the ground then it is to hit them when they are standing. The only time it would be worse is if the guy is knocked out which is obviously not allowed.



If I can get in my 2 cents for on this subject. As many of you remember me, I'm a huge MMA fan so while I disagree with what Jackie said about MMA, I still respect his opinion and can understand how watching a sanctioned sport where someone gets punched on the ground would be disturbing for him, heck the G'N'P tactic is my least favorite part of MMA. And you know, say what you will about him, still performed many of the worlds most dangerously insane stunts that would make many professional fighters piss their pants. (or in Tim Sylvia's case sh** their pants) Still, considering he actually took up Judo and Boxing (still does boxing workouts) after his years at the Peking Opera school, it's a shame he never took up BJJ, it would've been pretty cool to see him mix his signature acrobatic moves with grappling.

You can't blame him for saying his opinion since he was *asked* for his opinion on the matter so they got it. Even though he isn't a martial arts fighter (even he said so himself as he considers himself as just an entertainer), I'm sure a young Jackie can still kick my butt since he used to get into brawls during his young years (he mentions one story when after being jumped by a group of thugs, he found a tooth stuck to his fist), then again whatever martial art background you got isn't always relevant in a street brawl.


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## Steve (Feb 4, 2010)

LOL... as a lutador, I can't entirely agree with the literal interpretation of his response.  I, of course, WANT to knock you down and once you're on the ground, I'm more than happy to keep you there.  As Rickson Gracie said, 'I'm a shark and the ground is my ocean.  And most people don't even know how to swim."

But if you take a more figurative interpretation of his words, I can agree to an extent.

Training, whether it's MMA, strict BJJ, or any other art, is about building each other up and making each other better.  That's really what sparring is about.  If your teammate is down, pick him up.  If he needs a kick in the ***, motivate him.  Do what it takes to make each other better and trust that they're returning the favor.

But competition should be about winning.  In my opinion, it's disrespectful to compete without seriously attempting to win.  If you're half-assing it and lose, it cheapens the entire thing.  Compete within the rules.  Remember sportsmanship and all of that, but for pete's sake, play to win.


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## blindsage (Feb 4, 2010)

The Elemental said:


> Still, considering he actually took up Judo and Boxing (still does boxing workouts) after his years at the Peking Opera school, it's a shame he never took up BJJ, it would've been pretty cool to see him mix his signature acrobatic moves with grappling.


Strange.  He did Judo and has plenty of qin na and throws in his repetoire, and yet you say he doesn't include grappling.  You do realize that BJJ is not the definition of grappling, right?


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## David43515 (Feb 4, 2010)

"Martial arts is the practice of self defense. That includes taking action when your opponent hits the ground. Its no more disrespectful to hit a guy on the ground then it is to hit them when they are standing. The only time it would be worse is if the guy is knocked out which is obviously not allowed."

The interviewer seems to be mixing sport and self defense here, a big but common mistake. If I happan to fall to the ground with an opponant and have to keep fighting to protect myself then hitting him is fine. But, and from a legal and common sense standpoint, if I`m up and he`s down and I follow him to the ground to continue hitting him I`m making a huge tactical error. Either I`m throwing away a chance to get out of there before he draws a weapon or involves his friends, or from a legal standpoint I`m not "defending" myself anymore. I`ve become the agressor, and any injuries I give him can come back and bite me hard in court.

Competition is great great entertainment whether you`re in the ring or watching, but it`s not self defense.


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## Nolerama (Feb 4, 2010)

It's funny that he respects a ring boxer, when they definitely go harder in striking to the head than you see in MMA matches... And they can stand back up after a serious hit!

In MMA, on one of those knockout strikes, the ref is supposed to jump in and usually calls the fight.

I think Mr. Chan is making a personal comment on his view on MMA and that's cool.

I mean, we can't all be jumping off walls and somersaulting in a faux drunken state with blocks and traps that don't really work, but people try anyway, only to get beat up.

Beacause... that's the REAL martial arts, right?


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## MattJ (Feb 5, 2010)

blindsage said:


> Strange. He did Judo and has plenty of qin na and throws in his repetoire, and yet you say he doesn't include grappling. You do realize that BJJ is not the definition of grappling, right?


 
It's pretty clear to me that he meant "grappling" in the groundfighting sense. Lots of people use the terms interchangably.


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## Dan Cosgrove (Feb 5, 2010)

It's amazing how many MMA fans jumped on this. There are many couch-athletes that like to say that TMA sucks, just because they don't see it in the octagon.

I think they see Jackie's response the same way we might look at someone who messes up a self-defense technique because 'the mugger attacked him wrong'.

But honestly, they asked him what he thought. Just because someone likes martial arts doesn't necessarily mean they need to enjoy MMA.


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## Steve (Feb 5, 2010)

Dan Cosgrove said:


> It's amazing how many MMA fans jumped on this. There are many couch-athletes that like to say that TMA sucks, just because they don't see it in the octagon.


I'm not sure what you mean by this. Are you talking about over on Sherdog or here?


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## Tez3 (Feb 5, 2010)

stevebjj said:


> I'm not sure what you mean by this. Are you talking about over on Sherdog or here?


 
I don't go on Sherdog, there's nothing though on any MMA sites I do use. No one has mentioned Jackie Chan at all. It's just his personal view, I don't see why he has to like MMA, many people don't like his films. It's just a matter of preference.
I don't see why it's necessary to post that MMA fans say TMA doesn't work either, it's a bit infammatory and not relevant to the OP.


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## Dan Cosgrove (Feb 5, 2010)

stevebjj said:


> I'm not sure what you mean by this. Are you talking about over on Sherdog or here?



Sorry about not explaining that, I was referring to 'experts' I've met _offline_ that seem to get all of their information from Youtube and UFC. They're usually the loud ones at the pub down the block.

I didn't mean to generalize MMA fans, I only meant that the kind of person who would get defensive over Jackie's opinion probably doesn't like what he does anyway. I've simply heard many people use what works in MMA as what works in self-defense.

Granted, I wouldn't go calling Randy Couture a sissy.

I don't know, I'm not quite sure what point I'm trying to make any more, or if I had one to begin with.


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## Nolerama (Feb 5, 2010)

Dan Cosgrove said:


> Sorry about not explaining that, I was referring to 'experts' I've met _offline_ that seem to get all of their information from Youtube and UFC. They're usually the loud ones at the pub down the block.
> 
> I didn't mean to generalize MMA fans, I only meant that the kind of person who would get defensive over Jackie's opinion probably doesn't like what he does anyway. I've simply heard many people use what works in MMA as what works in self-defense.
> 
> ...



I don't think that argument is the point at all. The MMA fans here on MT are pretty much all TMA practitioners.

That being said, the highlight of this thread pertains to Jackie Chan, his view on a fight, and the irony over his comment on MMA versus his views on how a fight should end.


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## blindsage (Feb 5, 2010)

MattJ said:


> It's pretty clear to me that he meant "grappling" in the groundfighting sense. Lots of people use the terms interchangably.


Unfortunately.


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## Brian King (Feb 5, 2010)

Chan said. 





> As a martial artist, I find it too violent putting them in a cage. At the end, its not fighting anymore. Thats not the martial arts. Martial arts is about respect. When somebody is knocked down, stop. I really respect Sugar Ray Leonard. Come on, [when a guy is down] stop. Dont fight. Thats not the spirit. When youre down, Ill grab you up. Are you okay? Should we continue? Thats the martial arts spirit. Thats what I want


 
Found the above quote is the OP link

This part of the Op attributed to Mr. Chan does not appear in the article. Not sure whose words, thoughts or opinion it is despite it being linked to Mr. Chan...



> Martial arts is the practice of self defense. That includes taking action when your opponent hits the ground. Its no more disrespectful to hit a guy on the ground then it is to hit them when they are standing. The only time it would be worse is if the guy is knocked out which is obviously not allowed.


 
Regards
Brian King


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## rizzo (Jun 7, 2010)

Its not MMA he necessarily objects to as it is the ground fighting it displays.  This comes from the Buddhist philosophy he was raised with.  In China (and several other asian countries) the ground is considered the a place of disgrace.  
     Example, I've heard that in Muay Thai, that some take offense to throwing a Teep (sp?) to your face, because the bottom of your foot is the dirties part of your body and the face is the cleanest.  

Between the cage, and rolling around on the ground, this probably goes against the Buddhist beliefs he was raised with.  A ring is a place of honor or a platform where they fight lei tai or san shou.  But a cage really doesn't have that connotation in any culture yet, including USA 

I know some Chinese that dont look at BJJ as a kind of martial art they would ever take cause they cant get passed the idea of being on the ground, even if its a mat.  Its a cultural roadblock for them.  Personally, I don't have a problem with them having that kind of opinion of MMA despite the fact that I am a fan.


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## KenpoVzla (Jun 7, 2010)

The Elemental said:


> http://www.sherdog.com/news/articles/Jackie-Chan-Does-Not-Like-MMA-22150
> 
> Chan said. When somebody is knocked down,  stop."



Well if you don't know how to fight on the ground, then you would want to stop.

I think Jackie has a bit of tunnel vision in thinking that a match is  only two people standing. MMA mimics a real street fight, and more often  than not street fights end on the ground.

Being on the ground doesn't mean you're knocked out, there's still plenty of fight left.


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## bowser666 (Jul 13, 2010)

KenpoVzla said:


> Well if you don't know how to fight on the ground, then you would want to stop.
> 
> I think Jackie has a bit of tunnel vision in thinking that a match is  only two people standing. MMA mimics a real street fight, and more often  than not street fights end on the ground.
> 
> Being on the ground doesn't mean you're knocked out, there's still plenty of fight left.




MMA mimics a street fight as in there are rules and a referee to separate you when there is a risk of injury ?  I think you have your facts wrong sir.  It is nothing like a street fight and usually in street fights there are multiple opponents so chances are you won't want to groundfight if there are multiple attackers.  MMA is a sport  not self-defense .  Please understand that.


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## hzulkar (Jul 14, 2010)

I think Jackie Chans way of thinking is different due to the difference of culture. For some, having these kind of action  as a sport is considered as too violent and dishonourable since a sporting event is about respect, honour, fairplay and sportsmanship. You can practice as hard as you want on groundfighting or whatever to prepare yourself for self defense, but only in your dojo, or training hall. But in sports, there are certain rules that some of these guys follow. And in certain cultures, to hit your opponent when he is down in a sporting event is a big no-no when there are audiences as it is considered dishonourable since your are putting him down in front of other people. But you can do that when you are training under the supervision of your teacher or when you are in a real fight. No problem 

Just because some guy does not like MMA the sport and the rules does not mean they are against groundfighting or unable to utilise groundfighting. If I'm not mistaken, he is trained in Judo as well. And he is not against Judo or even wrestling since to him, the honour of the two fighters facing each other are protected by the rules.


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## Tez3 (Jul 14, 2010)

So what's the thinking when both of you are on the ground hitting each other?
People who go to MMA fights know the rules, there's no problem when MMA is on in Japan quite the opposite they have huge audiences for fight nights. if you don't think hitting people on the floor is right, it's easy, don't go to the fight nights. Its a matter of choice.


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## hzulkar (Jul 14, 2010)

I think we are talking about Jackie's statement and an explanation in order to understand where he is coming from and not what I think about MMA and groundfighting. And I don't think Jackie watches MMA anyway. 

Also, Jackie Chan is Chinese not Japanese, they are 2 different cultures with different views of how things should be. And also the fact that he is from an older generation which have a slight difference in terms of values from the younger generation. The topic is to discuss Jackie's statement and I just give my explanation of why he says those things based on my opinion and understanding of his background and culture and to give an explanation from previous statements that he does not know groundfighting when in fact he has studied Judo.  

Cheers


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## Tez3 (Jul 14, 2010)

hzulkar said:


> I think we are talking about Jackie's statement and an explanation in order to understand where he is coming from and not what I think about MMA and groundfighting. And I don't think Jackie watches MMA anyway.
> 
> Also, Jackie Chan is Chinese not Japanese, they are 2 different cultures with different views of how things should be. And also the fact that he is from an older generation which have a slight difference in terms of values from the younger generation. The topic is to discuss Jackie's statement and I just give my explanation of why he says those things based on my opinion and understanding of his background and culture and to give an explanation from previous statements that he does not know groundfighting when in fact he has studied Judo.
> 
> Cheers


 
Do you know I never knew he was Chinese not Japanese (sarcasm), funny that isn't it. Really you don't have to be so sharp with your answer you know.
I wasn't asking what you thought about MMA at all, you said you thought that as Chan came from a different culture, one where  hitting people when they are down isn't considered honourable so I asked how both on ground hitting each other might be considered. A simple question as you have set yourself up as an 'expert' on how Chinese culture and martial arts is concerned. What you think of MMA doesn't come into it.


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## hzulkar (Jul 14, 2010)

Misunderstood your earlier comment. Sorry 'bout that. And you chose the example that MMA is big in Japan, so I made the assumption. But the difference is a sporting event and a real life situation. That is where it differs. In sports, don't hit your opponent when he is down. That is the opinion of some people, even when they know some grappling and groundfighting techniques. But in real life, hit him until he is out of the equation, even when he is on the ground. Since MMA is a sport, so that is where his opinion is from.


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## Tez3 (Jul 14, 2010)

hzulkar said:


> Misunderstood your earlier comment. Sorry 'bout that. And you chose the example that MMA is big in Japan, so I made the assumption. But the difference is a sporting event and a real life situation. That is where it differs. In sports, don't hit your opponent when he is down. That is the opinion of some people, even when they know some grappling and groundfighting techniques. But in real life, hit him until he is out of the equation, even when he is on the ground. Since MMA is a sport, so that is where his opinion is from.


 

Ok no worries. My mother taught me when I was young to never hit a man when he's down as kicking him is easier :ultracool
It just that I don't get the thing about not hitting him when he's down and you are too! thats the same as if you were both standing!

It's not often actually in MMA that you _can_ hit a man when he's down, it depends on how he's down ie how many points of contact, also when down you will bring them down with you or cover up. I think it's a case that one needs to know the rules of the sport before one can criticise it, if you don't know you are arguing from a point of ignorance. Many who criticise or say they can't stand MMA assume they know what they are talking about and they don't. Jet Li for example says he likes the sport but would get badly beaten if he took part.


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## TheLegend731 (Aug 4, 2010)

I respect Jackie to no ends. He is an awesome guy. But wasn't he just a practitioner of chinese opera? Not a legit martial art? I may be ignorant here, but that's what I had always known.

But in my opinion, since there are so many different martial arts out there, with their own ideals and purposes, narrowing the purpose of martial arts to simply self-defense or respect is a bit too close-minded. Maybe for his martial art that may be true, but for some martial arts, you kill them while they're down.

My 2 cents


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## alcatraz (Aug 5, 2010)

Whilst I respect what Mr. Chan has done within the field of entertainment, and whilst I also respect his views on MMA, I must say that he must be very naive about the nature of MMA.

The clue is in the name. MIXED Martial Arts. The sport is full-contact in nature, and the aim of the sport is defeat your opponent within the framework of the rules format.

The rules allow for striking a grounded opponent (to a degree).

Now let's take this away from Sport and say your opponent is on the deck and you cannot disengage due to some sort of restraint (eg enviroment). If I wasn't sure that I could get away safely; that my opponent wasn't going to get back up and try and do me some harm...then I'm afraid that hitting a downed opponent wouldn't make me feel bad in the slightest.

Now, getting back to the sport side.

The sport side of any Martial Art format is allegedly to give us a safe enviroment which allows us to practice our technique against a non-compliant opponent.

Within the framework of the rules, isn't that exactly what MMA does?

Sport Karate doesn't allow for any degree of groundwork, so within the framework of that format, I would be quite disgusted to see someone get taken to the ground and GnP'd. After all the rules should be known before competing.

On the other hand, due to the MIXED element of MMA, and because the format IS full contact, I would expect to see someone (within the limits of the rules) do whatever they can to ensure that they have won the fight.

(Cavaet: With the exeption of 'Lay and Pray' as favoured by Josh 'The Blanket' Kostchek).


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## sgtmac_46 (Aug 5, 2010)

I think the problem is that Jackie is confused about the rules........there is no grappling or ground fighting in Chinese Opera play fighting.


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## KenpoVzla (Aug 13, 2010)

You are right, in no way is MMA a street fight, by mimics I meant it  simulates....with rules of course...do we really want bats in MMA?  Multiple Opponents? It can only go so far.

Even experienced MMA  practicioners will tell you that it's nothing like a street fighting.   With that said, I think an MMA practicioner is a lot better equipped for  a street fight than MA from other styles and certainly more than your  average Joe. 

With the rules removed, you think they wouldn't  perform well? If anything, is that they will be in a better position to  defend themselves.



bowser666 said:


> MMA mimics a street fight as in there are rules and a referee to separate you when there is a risk of injury ?  I think you have your facts wrong sir.  It is nothing like a street fight and usually in street fights there are multiple opponents so chances are you won't want to groundfight if there are multiple attackers.  MMA is a sport  not self-defense .  Please understand that.


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## sgtmac_46 (Aug 14, 2010)

KenpoVzla said:


> You are right, in no way is MMA a street fight, by mimics I meant it simulates....with rules of course...do we really want bats in MMA? Multiple Opponents? It can only go so far.
> 
> Even experienced MMA practicioners will tell you that it's nothing like a street fighting. With that said, I think an MMA practicioner is a lot better equipped for a street fight than MA from other styles and certainly more than your average Joe.
> 
> With the rules removed, you think they wouldn't perform well? If anything, is that they will be in a better position to defend themselves.


 
MMA with a bat is a dog brothers gathering.

As for 'street fights'......they're often overrated.  MMA sport fighting is not like a street fight in a few key ways, but the difference isn't always what it's made out to be.

MMA opponents are almost always more skilled than the random street drunk.

MMA does not have weapons.

MMA does not involve the potential for multiple opponents.

But many folks make way to much of the differences, because the reality is that there are more similarities than there are differences, especially compared to what a lot of other folks are doing with their martial arts training.


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## TheArtofDave (Nov 8, 2010)

I think Jackie Chan threw in a boxing reference. Comparing boxing to the true martial arts spirit. You can't hit the guy while he is down boxing.

In MMA you've got to defend. That's what makes MMA so interesting the difference in technique.


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