# Back from the 2007 Meet & Greet...



## exile (Aug 6, 2007)

... and it was over too soon! 

I'm posting this first to thank the instructors who came to the 2007 MartialTalk Meet & Greet in Buffalo this year and shared their broad and deep knowledge with us, along with Bob and the others who helped organize it, and my fellow MTers who showed up, provided such great comraderie and trained with such terrific intensity; and second in the hope of persuading as many members as possible to consider attending next year's M&G. 

On the training side, we were given basic introductions to a very wide variety of MAs: Combat Hapkido, Aiki-jutsu, various FMAs including stick and knife applications, Wing Chun, Kenpo, and more (details are available at http://martialtalk.com/camp/buffalo2007/). Each session ran around half an hour, and the instructors packed a remarkable amount into each session. It wasn't just a matter of jamming in as much detail as possible; rather, I had the distinct sense that the instructors had very carefully thought out the basic principle, the `axioms' of their system, and presented these in basic, digestible form to us along with a number of well-chosen implementations&#8212;theory and practice, giving us as much of a chance as possible to see the core ideas both in their abstract form and at (hard) work on the mat. One of my cherished memories from this weekend will always be ending one of the sessions with this sense that this was an incredibly good training day, and bumping (probably literally; I was fairly disoriented at the end of some of these sessions... all those circular arts...) into Andy Moynihan, who greeted me by saying `I'm so glad I came to this, this is incredibly good training!', or something very close, echoing my own thoughts exactly... and I'm pretty sure we were all feeling exactly that. 

One of the things that emerged, early on, for me anyway, was the remarkable convergence we were seeing amongst the various arts. Everyone is using both linear and circular moves, though the emphasis may differ; everyone is using interpolated strikes to set up diversions and (very painful!) distrctions as preparation for major disruptive techniques; everyone is targeting weak points on the head, neck/throat and a couple of other `high value' target regions; everyone is training very close quarters techs, because in the situations we really _worry_ about&#8212;the unsought street attack&#8212;that's where the action is; everyone is looking to minimize input (use the lowest-energy-cost moves that can achieve the highest relative impact and forced compliance on the assailant). What I found particularly impressive was that everyone who was teaching had clearly defined the relevant problem as that of self-defense, rather than intra- or inter-art dueling. An extended training day or two such as the one we had on Saturday would, I'm pretty sure, shut down any inclination on anyone's part to speculate along is-art-A-more-street-effective-than-art-B? lines. 

Apart from issues of content, I was also struck by the uniformly substance-based approach the instructors took. None of this `I'm a seventh-dan in such and such therefore you must do it this way solely on the basis of my word' sort of hierarchical style. All the presentations were evidence-based: 'if you do this, then _this_ will happen; try it out with your partners and see for yourself', and of course, when you do it, `this' is exactly what happens&#8212;whether or not your partner wants it to. It was a great source of empathy, I think, that your instructor for one of the styles was going to be a fellow learner when the next style was presented; the lack of hierarchical posturing in the presentations on Saturday was probably inevitable, given that all the teachers were also learners. Thanks and kudos to all of our M&G instructors! (You'll get to see them at their dignified best when Bob posts the pictures from the weekend... )

As I say, my one regret was that it ended too soon. I wasn't quite ready to say goodbye to so many lovely people&#8212;everyone was even more excellent, when I finally got to meet them, than I had been anticipating&#8212;so soon. All good things must come to an end, but  _please_ not quite as quickly as all that... still, what we _did_ get was great, and I hope that there will be even more (both in the way of people and of MAs represented in the training) next year. Thanks again to all who made it possible!


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## morph4me (Aug 6, 2007)

I agree wholeheartedly. The way the M & G was structured, and the open mindedness of all the participants made for a great day of training. 

It was particularly gratifying to see everyone take what was being taught, recognize the commonalitites, and experiment with how it could be adapted and incorporated in their own training. I think we all came away with something to play with in our own dojo's. 

I'd like to thank all of the people that I worked with and those who volunteered to be uke for my segment :asian:, you all made for a great experience.


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## KempoGuy06 (Aug 6, 2007)

Im so jealous. I wanted to go so bad. Im there next year everyone can count on it

B


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## terryl965 (Aug 6, 2007)

Well I'm not home yet stopped in Nashville for the night and enjoyed the pool and spa. 

I would like to thank everyone as well, we had some great people there and not one time was rank ever mention which made this a very special weekend for me and my family.

I would also like to thank everybody for showing my sons a wonderful time and not making a big deal with them learning and training with us, that meant alot to me and my wife BORICUATKD better known here.


In closing I would like to say exile has so much info. and talent and morph was great being a yuki for me, carol and TKDgirl along with HKF and rich was fantastic.

Drac and Father Greet was impressive and please do not believe this crap that drac is a meer white belt he has talent. To the rest of everybody like Rich and Larry and Mbuzzy thank you all.

I was very glad we made the trip and I'm all ready looking forward to next years.


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## Drac (Aug 6, 2007)

terryl965 said:


> please do not believe this crap that drac is a meer white belt he has talent


 
Don't listen to him folks..One too many hits in the head...LOL..I was IMPRESSED by the variety of talent present...I'm angry that my treasonous body gave out and I was forced to sit out the last hour..


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## CoryKS (Aug 6, 2007)

Sounds like a good time.  I wish I could have been there.


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## jaybacca72 (Aug 6, 2007)

Terry sorry i missed your session and didn't get to converse with you as much but definitely next time. it was my pleasure working with your son,he had a good training attitude i would work with him anytime.
later
Jason Arnold
CANADA


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## terryl965 (Aug 6, 2007)

jaybacca72 said:


> Terry sorry i missed your session and didn't get to converse with you as much but definitely next time. it was my pleasure working with your son,he had a good training attitude i would work with him anytime.
> later
> Jason Arnold
> CANADA


 

I thank you Jason and so does zachary he enjoyed it.


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## agemechanic03 (Aug 6, 2007)

Sounds like everyone had a phenominal time!! I wish I could have been there, but Korea has put a hold on it and Germany will definately put a hold on it for the next 3yrs too  I'm very saddened by this. But Welcome back to MT!!


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## morph4me (Aug 6, 2007)

Drac said:


> Don't listen to him folks..One too many hits in the head...LOL..I was IMPRESSED by the variety of talent present...I'm angry that my treasonous body gave out and I was forced to sit out the last hour..


 
Don't blame your treasonous body Drac, Father Greek could have picked the young guys that heal quick to be uke's, but noooooooooo, he had to pick on us old guys, it's all his fault


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## Drac (Aug 6, 2007)

exile said:


> ... Apart from issues of content, I was also struck by the uniformly substance-based approach the instructors took. None of this `I'm a seventh-dan in such and such therefore you must do it this way solely on the basis of my word' sort of hierarchical style


 
Yes, that was a real important factor that was overlooked..There were some *VERY TALENTED* Instructors present and NO ONE lorded over the others with this "*I'm a Xth Dan ranked instructor"*..Everyone was approachable...I have attended seminars outside my discipline and seen the reverse side as I'm sure many of you have...


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## exile (Aug 6, 2007)

Drac said:


> ...There were some *VERY TALENTED* Instructors present and NO ONE lorded over the others with this "*I'm a Xth Dan ranked instructor"*..Everyone was approachable...I have attended seminars outside my discipline and seen the reverse side as I'm sure many of you have...



It was so _nice_ being able to catch one or another of the instructors between breaks and ask them to explain a particular technique or concept again because it went by too fast the first (or even second) time. That approachability that you're talking about, Drac, is one of the keys to teaching: the most important qualities that an instructor in just about _anything_ can possess are receptiveness and patence. That's one of the reason why a high degree of technical skill doesn't automatically translate into teaching effectiveness. 

I think it's worth stressing this point because people who might want to go to this annual event but aren't very experienced in the MAs may need to be reassured: there wasn't anything in least intimidating or forbidding about the instructors or their teaching styles there (as vs. some of the techniques they were teaching... whoa, seriously scary!) There was just as much there for a beginner as for an experienced MAistand achieving that is quite a trick!


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## Tez3 (Aug 6, 2007)

I was avoiding this thread as I'm still sulking about not being able to go!! I so wanted to meet up with people and train some traditional again. it sounds as if it was great and it's definite I'm coming next time! I'm glad thise that went had a great time though


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## Rich Parsons (Aug 6, 2007)

I am glad those who have posted here, did enjoy the event. 

Thank you for the kind words and for everyone being open to learning for me that is what I enjoyed. I did not hit the floor every time, as I was either workign some business or getting food into another instructor, (* We both needed it *). It was very good event. 

I would like to say thanks to Tim and Janice for Hosting as well.  They were in the middle of Move within the same complex. (* Landlords and timing and other business and all.  *) 

While the insructions was good and open, I wanted to say thanks to those that showed up to train. No event happens without the students.   

Thank you
:asian:


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## Bob Hubbard (Aug 6, 2007)

Thank you everyone again for making this our biggest event yet.

I'd like to ask something though.  If there were anything that didn't work, any problems you encountered, please let me know.  I want each year to be better than the last, and I need to know the good, and the bad.  So, please shoot me pms with any concerns or complaints regarding this years event.

Thank you all again.


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## Father Greek (Aug 6, 2007)

morph4me said:


> Don't blame your treasonous body Drac, Father Greek could have picked the young guys that heal quick to be uke's, but noooooooooo, he had to pick on us old guys, it's all his fault


 
Old guys are much more fun to have as uke's. They go bump much harder!:lol::lol: Thanks to you Tom for the chance to work with you and chat with you . I was able to walk away with more tools in my toolbox.


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## morph4me (Aug 6, 2007)

Father Greek said:


> Old guys are much more fun to have as uke's. They go bump much harder!:lol::lol: Thanks to you Tom for the chance to work with you and chat with you . I was able to walk away with more tools in my toolbox.


 
We bump harder because of the extra weight :lol2:. It was a genuine pleasure meeting you and being uke :asian:.


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## Jade Tigress (Aug 6, 2007)

I am soooooo jealous. Post pics!!!!! NOW!!! lol


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## Bob Hubbard (Aug 6, 2007)

pics coming, late tonight or tomorrow.  Theres a few in the other thread now.


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## bluemtn (Aug 6, 2007)

All I can say to those that couldn't make it, should try really hard next year, and also to say this:   !  It was great training with all the varieties of people there, it was very relaxed, not one time was rank mentioned. The instructors were absolutely great! I know I came back with a lot of information to use!


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## MBuzzy (Aug 6, 2007)

Exile - very well put as usual.  It was great talking to you, too bad we didn't have more time during the weekend!

I had an excellent time meeting everyone and the instruction was beyond compare.

Thank you to everyone who made this such a great time!  

Terry, it was great to have your kids train with us.  Zach is an incredibly talented kid.  I had a great time training with him.  And thank you for your help with the Round house kick.  I had never had it broken down like that.  I can already see a big difference in my technique.

All of the instructors, thank you for your time and effort, It was very interesting to see so much of so many different styles and see how connected we all really are.


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## exile (Aug 6, 2007)

MBuzzy said:


> Exile -  It was great talking to you, too bad we didn't have more time during the weekend!



Likewise, Craige! It was just too dang _short_which is why I'm really glad we're looking at a whole extra day for the 2008 M&G. Meanwhile, lemme know next time you figure you're going to be be out our way, eh?



MBuzzy said:


> I had an excellent time meeting everyone and the instruction was beyond compare.
> 
> Thank you to everyone who made this such a great time!



No disagreement there!



MBuzzy said:


> Terry, it was great to have your kids train with us.  Zach is an incredibly talented kid.  I had a great time training with him.  And thank you for your help with the Round house kick.  I had never had it broken down like that.  I can already see a big difference in my technique.



About half an hour into the Saturday training, I felt as though I'd already gotten my money's worth just from Terry and Yolanda's session alone. I try to get my students to do all their turning and side kicks in that three-parts-out/three-parts-back format, but the clarity of Terry's explanation made the rationale for doing it that way extremely convincing, and the two-partner exercise was a terrific idea. I'm going to steal both ideas and use them in my own classes.



MBuzzy said:


> All of the instructors, thank you for your time and effort, It was very interesting to see so much of so many different styles and see how connected we all really are.



Yes, that was my sense also.


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## IcemanSK (Aug 6, 2007)

Darn this West Coast great weather. All the action happened in Buffalo, NY & I missed it. Sounds like a great time was had by all. Thanks for sharing!


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## Monadnock (Aug 6, 2007)

Sounds like it was a blast! artyon: Wish I coulda made it. Hopefully next year. Maybe it should be semi-annual


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## MBuzzy (Aug 6, 2007)

I'll vote for semi-annual!  I think that my fiance already has something scheduled for that weekend next year.  So that means that I have a full year to fight for my freedom on that weekend!!!


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## terryl965 (Aug 6, 2007)

Thank you all for the kind words and exile and Mbuzzy take what you can use it was somebody elses before me and will be somebody elses after I'm gone.

Zachary really enjoyed it and was suprize he was accepted with open arms by everyone.

I do once again would like to say thank you to everyone that was there in both physical and theose there in spirit as well.

Bob three days means I can have an hour and a half for a complete workout for everybody?


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## Bob Hubbard (Aug 6, 2007)

I'm hoping to give a bit more time to the instructors to really get into things more. 


Still working on the pictures....paired em down to 300 so far, lol!


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## Tames D (Aug 6, 2007)

IcemanSK said:


> Darn this West Coast great weather. All the action happened in Buffalo, NY & I missed it. Sounds like a great time was had by all. Thanks for sharing!


I have to agree. Don't you hate this great Southern Calif weather? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




I'm also sorry I missed it. 
For those of you that did go... Did everyone look the way you pictured them in your mind before meeting them
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







.


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## arnisador (Aug 6, 2007)

Bob Hubbard said:


> pics coming, late tonight



Late tonight? But surely you'll be asleep, right?


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## Bob Hubbard (Aug 6, 2007)

arnisador said:


> Late tonight? But surely you'll be asleep, right?


Dude, when do I ever sleep? LOL!


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## exile (Aug 6, 2007)

Monadnock said:


> Sounds like it was a blast! artyon: Wish I coulda made it. Hopefully next year. Maybe it should be semi-annual



You got _my_ vote...



MBuzzy said:


> I'll vote for semi-annual!  I think that my fiance already has something scheduled for that weekend next year.  So that means that I have a full year to fight for my freedom on that weekend!!!



A year in advance, MB???? That's _sincere_ planning... my wife is always armed with her planning daybook, but she _isn't_ a full year ahead of me... I don't think... :uhohh:



terryl965 said:


> Thank you all for the kind words and exile and Mbuzzy take what you can use it was somebody elses before me and will be somebody elses after I'm gone.



Thanks for the offer, Terry, and I will gladly take you up on it. Those are terrific warmup exercise... amazing what that medicine-ball carry adds to a a simple kicking line drill! And the stretching exercises... I could hardly move my legs the next day... which was too bad, because we spent the first part of the day hiking all over Fort Niagaraterrific place, but it _hurt!!_



terryl965 said:


> Zachary really enjoyed it and was suprize he was accepted with open arms by everyone.
> 
> I do once again would like to say thank you to everyone that was there in both physical and theose there in spirit as well.



Hear, hear! Zach is a sweet kid...



terryl965 said:


> Bob three days means I can have an hour and a half for a complete workout for everybody?



No... no, Terry, _mercy!!_ Fifteen minutes just about did me in...  after 90 minutes of that I'd be in traction....


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## bluemtn (Aug 6, 2007)

terryl965 said:


> Zachary really enjoyed it and was suprize he was accepted with open arms by everyone.
> 
> Bob three days means I can have an hour and a half for a complete workout for everybody?


 

I really enjoyed working out with you and your family, Terry!  I wouldn't even have thought to treat him any differently.  A lot of talent...


I'm willing to go for an hour and a half!


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## qi-tah (Aug 7, 2007)

Wow, am i envious of you all... sounds like it was a great event. Sure you don't want to take it to Australia next year??


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## morph4me (Aug 7, 2007)

exile said:


> No... no, Terry, _mercy!!_ Fifteen minutes just about did me in... after 90 minutes of that I'd be in traction....


 
90 minutes and my weekend would be over, I'd have to spend the rest of it recovering.



tkdgirl said:


> I'm willing to go for an hour and a half!


 
Damn kids 



terryl965 said:


> Zachary really enjoyed it and was suprize he was accepted with open arms by everyone.


 
Zach is talented and disciplined, I don't think anybody really thought of him as a kid, but as a young, mature, very impressive, martial artist. I didn't get a chance to work out with him, but I would welcome that opportunity any time. All of your kids are a credit to Yolanda and yourself and you have every right to be very proud of them.


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## Drac (Aug 7, 2007)

morph4me said:


> Zach is talented and disciplined, I don't think anybody really thought of him as a kid, but as a young, mature, very impressive, martial artist. I didn't get a chance to work out with him, but I would welcome that opportunity any time. All of your kids are a credit to Yolanda and yourself and you have every right to be very proud of them.


 
Amen..Would that I had that discipline at that age...


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## Drac (Aug 7, 2007)

Next year I'm sitting on the side lines...


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## terryl965 (Aug 7, 2007)

Drac said:


> Next year I'm sitting on the side lines...


 
PH no your not Drac we need you, you are the man with all the falls.


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## Drac (Aug 7, 2007)

terryl965 said:


> PH no your not Drac we need you, you are the man with all the falls.


 
And I'm paying for it today..Nope, you'll have Father Greek teaching the full version of Combat Hapkido...Nuff said...The way msinkie is training she'll get her BB by next year and she can assist him teaching..


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## terryl965 (Aug 7, 2007)

Drac said:


> And I'm paying for it today..Nope, you'll have Father Greek teaching the full version of Combat Hapkido...Nuff said...The way msinkie is training she'll get her BB by next year and she can assist him teaching..


 

I completely understand, this way more drinking envolved gotcha.


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## Drac (Aug 7, 2007)

terryl965 said:


> I completely understand, this way more drinking envolved gotcha.


 
That will work for me...


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## terryl965 (Aug 7, 2007)

Drac said:


> That will work for me...


 

Yes next year we are just flying in, the drive was terrible coming back.


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## Drac (Aug 7, 2007)

terryl965 said:


> Yes next year we are just flying in, the drive was terrible coming back.


 
That was my next question...


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## Carol (Aug 7, 2007)

terryl965 said:


> Yes next year we are just flying in, the drive was terrible coming back.



Ours too. All my missed oil changes came back to bite me.  My car developed some engine trouble on the NYS Thruway.  Fortunately we made it home OK and the needed repair to the Hondar is minor.

Other than that it was a GREAT time and I'm _really _looking forward to next year!!


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## terryl965 (Aug 7, 2007)

Carol Kaur said:


> Ours too. All my missed oil changes came back to bite me. My car developed some engine trouble on the NYS Thruway. Fortunately we made it home OK and the needed repair to the Hondar is minor.
> 
> Other than that it was a GREAT time and I'm _really _looking forward to next year!!


 

Glad to hear you made it back safely


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## Drac (Aug 7, 2007)

terryl965 said:


> Glad to hear you made it back safely


 
Amen to that...


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## Drac (Aug 7, 2007)

qi-tah said:


> Wow, am i envious of you all... sounds like it was a great event. Sure you don't want to take it to Australia next year??


 
That would work for me..Although I probably wouldn't attend any of the classes...I have always wanted to dive the Great Barrier Reef...


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## Andy Moynihan (Aug 7, 2007)

Just got to a computer  and I have to echo many of the sentiments already expressed here. It was absolutely a unique training experience, ranks and egos were, indeed, put aside as someone already said, and to see such a diverse and eager gathering of so many different MAists for a common purpose was extremely refreshing.

My first word of thanks must go, of course, to Bob Hubbard, for organizing the event, and to Tim Hartman for graciously hosting it despite logistic difficulties brought about by his school's move.

I must also give thanks to everyone who taught, and also to everyone who attended, and I must also give additional thanks to a few individuals whom I knew, or got to know a lot better as the weekend went on:

To Carol, for driving Charlie and I out to the event, and for just plain being my friend.

To Charlie, for his knowledge and his well thought out( and in many cases quite humorous) conversations. 

To Exile and Morph4me( Bob and Tom), for the conversation in the lobby until it got so late it was early , and for Tom picking me to volunteer as uke, which gave me a deeper understanding of how his techniques worked.

To Terry, for his opening drills which reminded me that I could still kick  , to Yolanda for the stretches which kept me able to walk the day after( it didn't help that before the session I warmed up by doing Harimau drills ), and to their children for inspiring us all by reminding us that age is no barrier to ability.

To Drac, for his conversation and advice at the bar. 

To Tkdgirl(Kerrie) for being just a cool person in general and for putting up with my driving, in an unknown car to an unknown place (but I got us there and back safe and you and Joe got your souvenirs)! 

To hongkongfooey(Joe) for graciously allowing me to split the cost of his room with him and stay there, for cracking my *** up with the thermostat prank  , and for his general enthusiasm which convinced me to take him, Kerrie, and me up to NI-AAAA-GARA FAAALLLLLLS!  

To Father Greek for the conversation we had just after he and Drac had wrapped their segment--any tool will do, if YOU will do 

To MBuzzy for being a great training partner and I'm sorry I didn't get to go more in depth with you as to what Silat was about, but there will be other times.....oh yes....

To Mr. and Mrs. Cunningham(Mr. and Mrs LawDog)--it was wonderful to meet you both, and LawDog, although we did not have anywhere near as much opportunity to talk as I would have liked, it was great to meet you just the same. To Be Continued. 

And once again, to *everyone* because everyone in some way helped to make this an event I was glad to attend.


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## bluemtn (Aug 7, 2007)

Joe and I both had a lot of fun Sunday, Andy!  I'm glad that you had fun, too!  I can't say enough about how nice everyone was, and what a blast it was to train with everyone.  Had some great conversations, some incredibly hillarious moments (outside of the seminar  )-  like "Night at the Appolo" and "Random thoughts" Joe , along with other things...

There are so many people to thank!!!  Well, thanks to Andy, Carol, and Charlie for your patience, hospitality, and good humor.  Thanks to Exile for the conversations and added knowledge, and being my training partner...  Thanks to all the instructors for your patience and knowledge. (added) thanks to Tom (Morph), for enduring some of those blocks.  A special thanks to Bob for putting all this together (and more entertaining conversations, and pictures), plus to Tim Hartman for letting us use his school.


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## exile (Aug 7, 2007)

Andy and Kerri, I should thank you too, because I enjoyed our interaction just as much as you did! It was great to be able to talk about things with people with whom there's so much _common ground_. And I get the sense that that was one of the best aspects of the M&G for everyone there: whatever differences of opinion or perspective we might have on the MAs, they represent something to us (often rather difficult to articulate) that we don't get to share with most other people. So again, thanks to both of you, and to the other great folks who were there, and may this just be one of many great M&G reunions for us! :cheers:


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## morph4me (Aug 8, 2007)

exile said:


> Andy and Kerri, I should thank you too, because I enjoyed our interaction just as much as you did! It was great to be able to talk about things with people with whom there's so much _common ground_. And I get the sense that that was one of the best aspects of the M&G for everyone there: whatever differences of opinion or perspective we might have on the MAs, they represent something to us (often rather difficult to articulate) that we don't get to share with most other people. So again, thanks to both of you, and to the other great folks who were there, and may this just be one of many great M&G reunions for us! :cheers:


I wanted to rep you for this one, Bob, but I have to spread it around some more first.  As usual you hit the nail on the head, the thing that stands out most about the weekend and everybody there is the recognition and acceptance that, as I heard from various people all weekend, we are all on different paths to the top of the same mountain, and sometimes the paths converge and at other times they diverge. That kind of openmindedness is very refreshing, and very much appreciated.


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## exile (Aug 8, 2007)

morph4me said:


> ...the thing that stands out most about the weekend and everybody there is the recognition and acceptance that, as I heard from various people all weekend, we are all on different paths to the top of the same mountain, and sometimes the paths converge and at other times they diverge. That kind of openmindedness is very refreshing, and very much appreciated.



Thanks for the kind thought, Tom, and you're dead right, the key idea here is openmindedness. I've found that there are two kinds of openmindedness: a reserved kind, of the sort that says, `OK, I won't dismiss anything you might have to say out of hand, if indeed there's anything you _do_ care to say', and a more generous, _receptive_ kind, which says `What are you thinking about and what makes you think that? What ideas do you have that I might need to know, or benefit from?' They aren't the same thing, and what I appreciated about the M&G was that the openmindedness you pointed out was of this second kind, a kind of active inquisitiveness about what each other were thinking.  

I'm convinced, on the basis of everything I've found out about the history of the MAs, that the great pioneers of the past actively pursued knowledge and insight wherever they could. They were anything but purists, and I suspect they would have been the first to urge us all to adopt the kind of openness to the experience and insights of others that was so evident at the M&G.


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## terryl965 (Aug 8, 2007)

exile said:


> Thanks for the kind thought, Tom, and you're dead right, the key idea here is openmindedness. I've found that there are two kinds of openmindedness: a reserved kind, of the sort that says, `OK, I won't dismiss anything you might have to say out of hand, if indeed there's anything you _do_ care to say', and a more generous, _receptive_ kind, which says `What are you thinking about and what makes you think that? What ideas do you have that I might need to know, or benefit from?' They aren't the same thing, and what I appreciated about the M&G was that the openmindedness you pointed out was of this second kind, a kind of active inquisitiveness about what each other were thinking.
> 
> I'm convinced, on the basis of everything I've found out about the history of the MAs, that the great pioneers of the past actively pursued knowledge and insight wherever they could. They were anything but purists, and I suspect they would have been the first to urge us all to adopt the kind of openness to the experience and insights of others that was so evident at the M&G.


 

Bob you are exactly right on with the above statement, I really could not see a bunch of Old time mA'ist standing around agrueing about what and who is right but better decussion about how each and every technique could benefit them as a whole. I was so glad that every single person there had an open mind about training and was so open to each person interpetation of the movements.

Once again I appreciated everybody and was so impress with not one single person mentioning rank the whole weekend.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Aug 8, 2007)

exile said:


> Thanks for the kind thought, Tom, and you're dead right, the key idea here is openmindedness. I've found that there are two kinds of openmindedness: a reserved kind, of the sort that says, `OK, I won't dismiss anything you might have to say out of hand, if indeed there's anything you _do_ care to say', and a more generous, _receptive_ kind, which says `What are you thinking about and what makes you think that? What ideas do you have that I might need to know, or benefit from?' They aren't the same thing, and what I appreciated about the M&G was that the openmindedness you pointed out was of this second kind, a kind of active inquisitiveness about what each other were thinking.
> 
> I'm convinced, on the basis of everything I've found out about the history of the MAs, that the great pioneers of the past actively pursued knowledge and insight wherever they could. They were anything but purists, and I suspect they would have been the first to urge us all to adopt the kind of openness to the experience and insights of others that was so evident at the M&G.


 

Excellent post as always Exile!


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## exile (Aug 8, 2007)

Brian R. VanCise said:


> Excellent post as always Exile!



Thanks, Brianmuch appreciated, but I have to say, I think this was something _all_ of us felt about the weekend. The more I think about it, the better an experience I realize it was. 

You know, one of these days I (among others!) need to be able to get together with you to train! I don't want to make you feel bad, but I think you would have _loved_ this shindigas our UK friends would say, it was right up your street...


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## terryl965 (Aug 8, 2007)

exile said:


> Thanks, Brianmuch appreciated, but I have to say, I think this was something _all_ of us felt about the weekend. The more I think about it, the better an experience I realize it was.
> 
> You know, one of these days I (among others!) need to be able to get together with you to train! I don't want to make you feel bad, but I think you would have _loved_ this shindigas our UK friends would say, it was right up your street...


 

Having the priverledge to train with Brian I can honestly say he would have been the iceing on the cake. Brian when exile says he is going to alma to train, I will be right there with you guys. Yolanda as well and the rugrats as always.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Aug 8, 2007)

exile said:


> Thanks, Brianmuch appreciated, but I have to say, I think this was something _all_ of us felt about the weekend. The more I think about it, the better an experience I realize it was.
> 
> You know, one of these days I (among others!) need to be able to get together with you to train! I don't want to make you feel bad, but I think you would have _loved_ this shindigas our UK friends would say, it was right up your street...


 
No doubt about it I would have enjoyed it quite a bit! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I know Rich Parsons was there and he is always an excellent instructor. (we try to have him up at least once a year)  Plus I think you are quite right and in particular *members of this forum* are open minded and willing to learn which is in general the people in martial arts that I enjoy hanging out with and talking to!  So I am sure that I would have enjoyed it!


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## exile (Aug 8, 2007)

terryl965 said:


> Having the priverledge to train with Brian I can honestly say he would have been the iceing on the cake. Brian when exile says he is going to alma to train, I will be right there with you guys. Yolanda as well and the rugrats as always.



Terry, I'm taking that as a promise, and I know you always keep your promises... now we just gotta figure out a time when we can all do it, eh? And of course, the more the merrier... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






Brian R. VanCise said:


> No doubt about it I would have enjoyed it quite a bit!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



So next year's M&G is locked in? You're gonna be there, yes?

But Terry's idea for a training session in Alma sometime before then maybe is very appealing, though I realize, the trip from Columbus to Michigan is going to be a lot easier for me than for other people... but totally worth it, I'm willing to bet. Something we should at least try for?


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## Drac (Aug 8, 2007)

terryl965 said:


> Having the priverledge to train with Brian I can honestly say he would have been the iceing on the cake. Brian when exile says he is going to alma to train, I will be right there with you guys. Yolanda as well and the rugrats as always.


 
I am going to figure out a way to go to Alma too...


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## Drac (Aug 8, 2007)

Next year I think I'll let Father Greek handle the teaching alone...He is *MORE* than capable..I want to thank everybody for all the kind words and reps, though I really don't think I did anything to be worthy of such praise..


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## bluemtn (Aug 8, 2007)

Drac said:


> Next year I think I'll let Father Greek handle the teaching alone...He is *MORE* than capable..I want to thank everybody for all the kind words and reps, though I really don't think I did anything to be worthy of such praise..


 

Well, you _both_ did an incredible job!  Besides, you were also involved in some interesting and entertaining conversations!


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## Drac (Aug 8, 2007)

tkdgirl said:


> Well, you _both_ did an incredible job! Besides, you were also involved in some interesting and entertaining conversations!


 
We do have a wealth of TRUE and interesting stories, of that I cannot lie..


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## Andy Moynihan (Aug 8, 2007)

Drac's like, cool and stuff.


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## exile (Aug 8, 2007)

Drac said:


> I am going to figure out a way to go to Alma too...



Great&#8212;if you want to drive with me, you're more than welcome. I owe you folks for `transport-currency' in Buffalo. If you do the navigating, I'll provide the station wagon and do the speeding, and you can sit back and chuckle while I explain to the officer that my cruise control seems to be damaged and sometimes goes over the speed I've set it for ... :lol:


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## Drac (Aug 8, 2007)

exile said:


> and you can sit back and chuckle while I explain to the officer that my cruise control seems to be damaged and sometimes goes over the speed I've set it for ... :lol:



I can get into enough trouble on my own..


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## Drac (Aug 8, 2007)

I'd like the find the stash of PR-24 practice batons my department purchased and are now somewhere gathering dust,,I could give and excellent demo/class...Baton training is something I know I'm good at...Get the smelling salts, I think Father Greek just fainted...


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## MBuzzy (Aug 8, 2007)

I'm definately in....We can do an Ohio caravan!!


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## Carol (Aug 8, 2007)

Drac said:


> I'd like the find the stash of PR-24 practice batons my department purchased and are now somewhere gathering dust,,I could give and excellent demo/class...Baton training is something I know I'm good at...Get the smelling salts, I think Father Greek just fainted...



WOOOOOOOOOOOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Do it Drac!!!!!!!!!!!!!1


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## exile (Aug 8, 2007)

Drac said:


> exile said:
> 
> 
> > ... and you can sit back and chuckle while I explain to the officer that my cruise control seems to be damaged and sometimes goes over the speed I've set it for ... :lol:
> ...



Even better_you_ can do the speeding! 



MBuzzy said:


> I'm definately in....We can do an Ohio caravan!!



Very good, Craige. I'm taking that as a commitment!

So we can take turns getting speeding tickets... we ought to be able to get there in three hours flat, at this rate!


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## Drac (Aug 8, 2007)

exile said:


> Even better&#8212;_you_ can do the speeding..So we can take turns getting speeding tickets... we ought to be able to get there in three hours flat, at this rate!


 
I have *NO IMMUNITY *from the *SHP..*They have no love for coppers from ANY juristiction save their own.


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## MBuzzy (Aug 8, 2007)

You Drac....I bet if you wave the gun around, that will DEFINATELY help.  I've heard that really helps you to avoid getting tickets.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Aug 8, 2007)

Eventually we will have to have some meet and greets in other areas and particularly destination areas like Las Vegas, Orlando and Hawaii!


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## Brian R. VanCise (Aug 8, 2007)

I could put some people up (maybe 8) in Las Vegas for free!


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## Drac (Aug 8, 2007)

Brian R. VanCise said:


> Eventually we will have to have some meet and greets in other areas and particularly destination areas like Las Vegas, Orlando and Hawaii!


 
Heading to Las Vegas in Dec...


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## Brian R. VanCise (Aug 8, 2007)

terryl965 said:


> Having the priverledge to train with Brian I can honestly say he would have been the iceing on the cake. Brian when exile says he is going to alma to train, I will be right there with you guys. Yolanda as well and the rugrats as always.


 
Terry you are way to kind and I am looking forward myself to training with you and Yolanda again!


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## Drac (Aug 8, 2007)

MBuzzy said:


> You Drac....I bet if you wave the gun around, that will DEFINATELY help. I've heard that really helps you to avoid getting tickets.


 
Are you insane...Pull my gun out in front of a Super Trooper...We'd all get shot..


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## MBuzzy (Aug 8, 2007)

Hmmm, good point.  I guess that wouldn't be worth it to get out of the ticket.....


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## Carol (Aug 8, 2007)

Brian R. VanCise said:


> Terry you are way to kind and I am looking forward myself to training with you and Yolanda again!



Me too, Terry.  If you make it up to Alma, I'll do my best to be there too.  I may need some floor space to crash on but I'll do my best to make it!


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## Brian R. VanCise (Aug 8, 2007)

Drac said:


> Heading to Las Vegas in Dec...


 
Now that will be fun! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




My immediate family (father, mother, sister) have moved out there from Michigan!


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## Brian R. VanCise (Aug 8, 2007)

Drac said:


> I have *NO IMMUNITY *from the *SHP..*They have no love for coppers from ANY juristiction save their own.


 
No one has immunity!


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## MBuzzy (Aug 8, 2007)

You know...I don't know how the distances work out, but Master Penfil and UpNorthKyosa are in that area too, we may be able to work out some Dojang hopping....


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## Drac (Aug 8, 2007)

Brian R. VanCise said:


> No one has immunity!


 
Oh so true..


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## exile (Aug 8, 2007)

MBuzzy said:


> You know...I don't know how the distances work out, but Master Penfil and UpNorthKyosa are in that area too, we may be able to work out some Dojang hopping....



Now _that_, as my 10 year old says, would be WAY COOL...



Drac said:


> Oh so true..



The SHP are kind of the Great White Sharks of the LEO ocean, I gather... top of the food chain...


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## Rich Parsons (Aug 8, 2007)

Thanks for the props Brian.

I know that Alma is only a little way from where I live. 

Alma is all good. 

I cannot lock in next year as I do not know the program or how trips might change, but I should be good, given normal chaos, as opposed to abnormal chaos.  

But either way, it should be good for all those that attend.

We could talk about a meet and greet in another location at some other time of the year.


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## MBuzzy (Aug 8, 2007)

The only interaction I've ever had with the Ohio SHP was getting pulled over on my way to a training course at Wright Patt.  The Officer saw my GPS, started asking me about it, we talked for about 10 minutes about it and he let me go.  

SO FAR, no complaints.  I seriously doubt I'll ever get off that easy again though.


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## terryl965 (Aug 8, 2007)

Brian R. VanCise said:


> I could put some people up (maybe 8) in Las Vegas for free!


 
One of those people better be me!!!!!


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## terryl965 (Aug 8, 2007)

Rich Parsons said:


> Thanks for the props Brian.
> 
> I know that Alma is only a little way from where I live.
> 
> ...


 

Rich you did a fantastic job and Zachary was taken to you. He likes the way you teach.


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## terryl965 (Aug 8, 2007)

Drac said:


> Next year I think I'll let Father Greek handle the teaching alone...He is *MORE* than capable..I want to thank everybody for all the kind words and reps, though I really don't think I did anything to be worthy of such praise..


 
you gave so much to give Drac the storys are worth a few drinks alone.


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## Kacey (Aug 8, 2007)

Where exactly is Alma?  I have family in Detroit that I haven't seen in several years...


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## Bob Hubbard (Aug 8, 2007)

Just a side note...still working through all the pics.  I take too many, lol!


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## exile (Aug 9, 2007)

Bob Hubbard said:


> Just a side note...still working through all the pics.  I take too many, lol!



I was a little worried about them, but after that Gallery of Horrors you posted on the `Why.... single' thread, I figure we _have_ to wind up looking pretty good!


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## Drac (Aug 9, 2007)

exile said:


> The SHP are kind of the Great White Sharks of the LEO ocean, I gather... top of the food chain...


 
Yep..AAA with a gun..I trained with a couple at OPOTA and they were all right, their Defensive Tactics Lt was nicknamed "The Angel of Death"..







*American Auto Association


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## Brian R. VanCise (Aug 9, 2007)

Kacey said:


> Where exactly is Alma? I have family in Detroit that I haven't seen in several years...


 
Hey Kacey we are right in the middle of Michigan and are the gateway to the Great White North!


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## Rich Parsons (Aug 9, 2007)

Kacey said:


> Where exactly is Alma? I have family in Detroit that I haven't seen in several years...


 

By Detroit, I assume you mean the Detroit Metro area. 

Alma is about an hour and 15 minutes north west of Flint michigan. 

Flint Michigan is about an 40 minutes north of Auburn Hills (* Detroit Pistons - Palace *)

Auburn Hills/Pontiac is about 30 minutes north of Detroit - 8 Mile Road.

Of course all times vary and are based upon the posted speed limits and assumming no traffic or construction delays. 

So it could be about 2 hours +/- from the middle of what most people call Detroit Metro area.


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## Kacey (Aug 9, 2007)

Rich Parsons said:


> By Detroit, I assume you mean the Detroit Metro area.
> 
> Alma is about an hour and 15 minutes north west of Flint michigan.
> 
> ...


Well, more precisely, they live in West Bloomfield... but people not from the area don't generally know what I'm talking about, the same way I tell people I grew up in Milwaukee, when I really grew up in a suburb north of Milwaukee called Mequon.


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## Drac (Aug 9, 2007)

All I know is he is on the way to *Soaring Eagle Casino*, a favorite place of Rox's and mine...


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## terryl965 (Aug 9, 2007)

Drac said:


> All I know is he is on the way to *Soaring Eagle Casino*, a favorite place of Rox's and mine...


 

Here here well said


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## Drac (Aug 9, 2007)

terryl965 said:


> Here here well said


 
Have you been there???


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## terryl965 (Aug 9, 2007)

Drac said:


> Have you been there???


 

yes nice place we go there when we go to dearbon to visit my sister and her family.


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## crushing (Aug 9, 2007)

Drac said:


> All I know is he is on the way to *Soaring Eagle Casino*, a favorite place of Rox's and mine...


 

I caught a BB King concert there.  Unfortunately, a man seated near us was mostly deaf or something and his wife repeated loudly to him what BB King was saying and singing, often over BB Kings next line.   AAaaarrrrgghhhhh!!!!!


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## Rich Parsons (Aug 9, 2007)

Kacey said:


> Well, more precisely, they live in West Bloomfield... but people not from the area don't generally know what I'm talking about, the same way I tell people I grew up in Milwaukee, when I really grew up in a suburb north of Milwaukee called Mequon.



One could drive to Alma from West BloomField and have a seminar and even possible hang out and then drive back. It might be a long day, but it is possible.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Aug 9, 2007)

Drac said:


> All I know is he is on the way to *Soaring Eagle Casino*, a favorite place of Rox's and mine...


 
Well if everyone came up then Soaring Eagle would definately have to be put on the Agenda!


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## terryl965 (Aug 9, 2007)

Brian R. VanCise said:


> Well if everyone came up then Soaring Eagle would definately have to be put on the Agenda!


 
Now you are talking, training and gambling what a great combination.


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## Rich Parsons (Aug 9, 2007)

Brian R. VanCise said:


> Well if everyone came up then Soaring Eagle would definately have to be put on the Agenda!



*sniff*
*sniff*

I think I might  smell andhear another event brewing.


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## terryl965 (Aug 9, 2007)

I only need a two week notice and I'm there


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## Brian R. VanCise (Aug 9, 2007)

Well we will have to see what we can do to organize a MidWest MartialTalk Meet & Greet!


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## Drac (Aug 9, 2007)

Brian R. VanCise said:


> Well we will have to see what we can do to organize a MidWest MartialTalk Meet & Greet!


 
There ya go...Unfortunatly my travel for the rest of the year is *LIMITED..*Lexington KY in Nov for the 15th Anniversary of the Combat Hapkido Federation and Las Vegas in Dec...Unless I hit a small lotto of a couple of thousand I'm done..


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## Brian R. VanCise (Aug 9, 2007)

Drac said:


> There ya go...Unfortunatly my travel for the rest of the year is *LIMITED..*Lexington KY in Nov for the 15th Anniversary of the Combat Hapkido Federation and Las Vegas in Dec...Unless I hit a small lotto of a couple of thousand I'm done..


 
Hey Drac I understand how that is completely!  Unfortunately there is so much to do and so little time.


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## Drac (Aug 9, 2007)

I just got the "We are short of training funds speech" from the Lt...They did go out and purchase some "blue" guns that I suggested a year ago, so I guess that's something..


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## Carol (Aug 10, 2007)

Unfortunately I haven't really posted much on here because I've been dealing with work drama and car drama and other real life stuff....BUT....at the risk of rehashing whats already been said....

I had a FABULOUS time!  

Terry, I loved meeting you and your family.  I had a fun time stickfighting with Zachary, he is definitely got a bright future ahead of him.  Also thanks to Yolanda not just for getting all of us warmed up and ready to go but for being so patient with me when we were working on Tom's Aikido stuff.

Thanks also to Mr. and Mrs. Cunningham for joining the crowd and being an extra set of eyes.  Mrs. Cunningham in particular was very helpful in pointing out where my techniques were going wrong...she could see things that I'm not yet able to sense.  And, being a beginner....I need a lot of that.  

Drac, I am so glad you got up to do a presentation.  I absolutely loved what you and Father Greek were doing.   I was able to see a lot of my own training reflected in what was being shown and migosh things are starting to make sense!

Morph4me, you and I think a lot alike and I'm so glad I got to be partnered with you, as well as given the opportunity to learn from you.  Gave me a new perspective on Aikido....I got to see a perspective that was very different from my failed stab at it 15 years ago 

Thanks to The Mark, I got a chance to try Wing Chun for the first time (Mark, if you're reading this...please post more on MT!  We need your input and your knowledge!) and thanks to Rich Parsons, Jaybacca, and Jack LaTorre for their efforts in the FMAs and Parker Kenpo...the arts closest to my heart 

Thanks to Bob and Susan for all their help organizing the event, Tim and Janice for providing the school and making my wallet a little bit lighter, and to  Charlie for being a great instructor and for his patience and explanations along the way.  Thanks to TKDgirl for being a wonderful roommate...and to all the new friends I had a chance to meet like Exile and family, "Random Thoughts" Joe , and MBuzzy.

Finally...a huge thanks to Andy Moynihan for being a good friend and going the extra mile*s *to help me out with my car repair. After a very long trip back to our part of Massachusetts, he was willing to turn around and help me safely get my car to the dealership.  It made for a long night for Andy and Charlie, and a challenging couple of days but we all got through it and everyone got home safely.   Props Andy!

I'm soooooo looking forward to the next trip!


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## Drac (Aug 10, 2007)

Carol Kaur said:


> Drac, I am so glad you got up to do a presentation. I absolutely loved what you and Father Greek were doing. I was able to see a lot of my own training reflected in what was being shown and migosh things are starting to make sense!


 
You are too kind Carol..Without Father Greek there I don't think I'd have been too effective...Years of being on the stage means I have NO PROBLEMS getting up in front of a group of people..Being able to present something that hasn't been seen before is the challenge..


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## exile (Aug 10, 2007)

Carol Kaur said:


> Thanks to TKDgirl for being a wonderful roommate...and to all the new friends I had a chance to meet like Exile and family, "Random Thoughts" Joe , and MBuzzy.



Well, thank _you_ back for being so much fun for us all to meet, Carol! 



Carol Kaur said:


> I'm soooooo looking forward to the next trip!



Me tooI've got next summer already planned around the `reserved' time in July for the 2008 M&G. And I think it would terrific, just outstanding, for us to fill in the long stretch of time between now and then with a smaller-scale m&g in Alma. We just need to work out a time when we all can make it...


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## terryl965 (Aug 10, 2007)

I really wish somebody would print some pics of this wonderful event. I have been jealous and cannot show off all the beautiful people we met.


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## Bob Hubbard (Aug 10, 2007)

Working on em.  I should start posting them and making prints available tonite.


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## Drac (Aug 10, 2007)

Don't forget to let us know when the group shots of the attendees and the Instructors ( both versions) are available for sale..


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## Carol (Aug 10, 2007)

Drac said:


> You are too kind Carol..Without Father Greek there I don't think I'd have been too effective...Years of being on the stage means I have NO PROBLEMS getting up in front of a group of people..Being able to present something that hasn't been seen before is the challenge..




Drac you need to give yourself a little more credit.  We all wanna see stuff our friends do


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## exile (Aug 10, 2007)

Carol Kaur said:


> Drac you need to give yourself a little more credit.  We all wanna see stuff our friends do



I agree completely with Carol, Dracyou guys were _both_ outstanding. 

The LEO's perspective is always important because it kind of shows you the lower limits of what is legally doable. LEO's are scrutinized far more heavily, I suspect, than civilians when it comes to issues such as minimum necessary force and the like. So seeing the constraints you folks operate under, and how you work under those conditions,  is very informative, especially in a world where a would-be burglar can actually bring a lawsuit against you to court because he tripped over your kid's skates and damaged his knee in the course of a failed break-in at your home....


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## morph4me (Aug 11, 2007)

exile said:


> I agree completely with Carol, Dracyou guys were _both_ outstanding.
> 
> The LEO's perspective is always important because it kind of shows you the lower limits of what is legally doable. LEO's are scrutinized far more heavily, I suspect, than civilians when it comes to issues such as minimum necessary force and the like. So seeing the constraints you folks operate under, and how you work under those conditions, is very informative, especially in a world where a would-be burglar can actually bring a lawsuit against you to court because he tripped over your kid's skates and damaged his knee in the course of a failed break-in at your home....


 
I also agree, but then you already know that, and if Father Greek wasn't there you could have done an academy class and it would have been great.


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## crushing (Aug 11, 2007)

exile said:


> Me tooI've got next summer already planned around the `reserved' time in July for the 2008 M&G. And I think it would terrific, just outstanding, for us to fill in the long stretch of time between now and then with a smaller-scale m&g in Alma. We just need to work out a time when we all can make it...


 
What is the 'reserved' time for next July?  Also, I'm definitely interested in a M&G in Alma.  It's only about 100 miles from my place.


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