# Religious Holidays in Public School



## oldnewbie (Oct 26, 2005)

In my county, the school board currently has "winter break", "spring break", several national holidays, and two religious holidays: Good Friday, and Yom Kippur.

This week, one individual, a self proclaimed muslim, went before the school board to request "equal status", and a day for muslims, Eid Al-Fitr marking the end of Ramadan.

The board decided, rather than granting another holiday, to remove all religious holidays, i.e. Good Friday, and Yom Kippur. These two days off will now be used for Presidents Day, and an additonal day during "spring break".

My question: was this the right choice? Why?


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## OnlyAnEgg (Oct 26, 2005)

I can see the logic in this decision.

Right now, at work, I am standing down a request to make a direct link to customer service on my company website's frontpage.  Why?  Because a) the link is only a mouseHover away anyway and b) if I move one link to to front, every other department will want theirs on the front, too.

What the school board has done, it seems to me, is simply reversed what would certainly be a 'Hey, what about _our_ holiday, too?' situation into a non-issue.  

respectfully,

egg


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## mantis (Oct 26, 2005)

OnlyAnEgg said:
			
		

> I can see the logic in this decision.
> 
> Right now, at work, I am standing down a request to make a direct link to customer service on my company website's frontpage. Why? Because a) the link is only a mouseHover away anyway and b) if I move one link to to front, every other department will want theirs on the front, too.
> 
> ...


You make a very good point. 
on the other hand i still think it is not fair.
A good solution would be to allow any religion to prove they have a holiday at a certain time of the year, and then grant the students who belong to that religion those days to take them off. 
The kids will deviate from their culture if they do not feel there is something special going on when their holidays come around.  to us it doesnt matter, but for little kids it does a lot. kids are always waiting for christmas, but those who dont celebrate it wait for what?
i think the decision was harsh and not fair, and should take into consideration the feelings of kids. i think the fact that "muslims" are asking for something like that generates a very rigid "NO", too!


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## OnlyAnEgg (Oct 26, 2005)

In retrospect, I can't help but wonder if something as simple as a few 'floating' holidays wouldn't appease everyone?


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## oldnewbie (Oct 26, 2005)

A couple of thoughts, if Americans were living in a foreign country, and asked the schools to add holidays, we would be told no.

Secondly, if parents kept there kids home for these holidays, do the kids really lose school time? Make-up work is always available.


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## oldnewbie (Oct 26, 2005)

OnlyAnEgg said:
			
		

> In retrospect, I can't help but wonder if something as simple as a few 'floating' holidays wouldn't appease everyone?



That's kind of what is happing with the winter break... It's not called Christmas break anymore... in order to appease others.


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## mantis (Oct 26, 2005)

oldnewbie said:
			
		

> A couple of thoughts, if Americans were living in a foreign country, and asked the schools to add holidays, we would be told no.
> 
> Secondly, if parents kept there kids home for these holidays, do the kids really lose school time? Make-up work is always available.


i agree on the second thought, but not the first.
name a country that doesnt celebrate christmas. Even saudi arabia celebrates it; americans get sundays off, americans get thanksgiving off, not only that they even get valentine off!


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## terryl965 (Oct 26, 2005)

First off we as a society have to draw the line for holiday's schools cannot close for every religious holiday,for every single group out there. the fair thing to do is give every student five floating days a year which they can use for there respective religions. Just my tweo cents.
Terry


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## arnisador (Oct 26, 2005)

It's probably the wisest decision. It'll prevent lawsuits.


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## arnisador (Oct 26, 2005)

terryl965 said:
			
		

> First off we as a society have to draw the line for holiday's schools cannot close for every religious holiday,for every single group out there. the fair thing to do is give every student five floating days a year which they can use for there respective religions.


 
That would be fair--but it'd be a planning nightmare for the teachers. Even if the students were given a list of religious holidays students _might_ take off, as opposed to letting them choose any 5 days at random, it'd still be an administrative hassle scheduling tests, trips, labs., etc.


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## oldnewbie (Oct 26, 2005)

arnisador said:
			
		

> That would be fair--but it'd be a planning nightmare for the teachers. Even if the students were given a list of religious holidays students _might_ take off, as opposed to letting them choose any 5 days at random, it'd still be an administrative hassle scheduling tests, trips, labs., etc.



I have to agree here. We can have excused days off..but the biggest complaints I am hearing is that a critical exam could be planned on a religious day, then the students lose out. That doesn't seem to make sense, as anything can be made-up right?????


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## arnisador (Oct 26, 2005)

There has to be a balance. Giving an exam on Yom Kippur isn't right--but having the teacher constantly having to give make-ups isn't good either.


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## oldnewbie (Oct 26, 2005)

arnisador said:
			
		

> There has to be a balance. Giving an exam on Yom Kippur isn't right--but having the teacher constantly having to give make-ups isn't good either.



But how can we schedule around the varied religious holidays? I'm no expert, but I can imagine that would entail several days where nothing "important" is done. Would we have to cover days for "any" religion then? I see a problem there.


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## mantis (Oct 26, 2005)

arnisador said:
			
		

> There has to be a balance. Giving an exam on Yom Kippur isn't right--but having the teacher constantly having to give make-ups isn't good either.


well, why dont school districts agree on a list of holidays and specify them before the year starts. so when teachers write their syllabi they would know how to plan. there arent too many holidays, but in certain cities like little sigon, korea town, Irvine, san jose (i only know california cities, sorry) the majority of the people, including teachers, are from differnet cultures and they're going to be absent anyway!
for example, the majority of santa ana is hispanic then the santa ana school district should permit mexican holidays, the next city is little sigon, the viets have to be given their holidays, and so on.
just have each city take care of its own people maybe!


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## arnisador (Oct 26, 2005)

I think a list is necessary, yes, *oldnewbie* and *mantis*! A student could petition to put a new day on the list.


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## oldnewbie (Oct 26, 2005)

mantis said:
			
		

> well, why dont school districts agree on a list of holidays and specify them before the year starts. so when teachers write their syllabi they would know how to plan. there arent too many holidays, but in certain cities like little sigon, korea town, Irvine, san jose (i only know california cities, sorry) the majority of the people, including teachers, are from differnet cultures and they're going to be absent anyway!
> for example, the majority of santa ana is hispanic then the santa ana school district should permit mexican holidays, the next city is little sigon, the viets have to be given their holidays, and so on.
> just have each city take care of its own people maybe!



Wow, when would the kids actually go to school? You're talking about alot of days to cover. When do you stop and say enough???


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## OnlyAnEgg (Oct 26, 2005)

oldnewbie said:
			
		

> Wow, when would the kids actually go to school? You're talking about alot of days to cover. When do you stop and say enough???


 
My point exactly!  Give the kids 5 floaters a year and let them honor their personal holidays as they choose.


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## mantis (Oct 26, 2005)

oldnewbie said:
			
		

> Wow, when would the kids actually go to school? You're talking about alot of days to cover. When do you stop and say enough???


like i said. in little sigon there could be one or two holidays a year. so the regular + 1 or 2 days.
if you dont want this whole deal then are you okay if your kids go  to school on christmas day?
why christmas and hunnuka(sp?) and not Eid and everything else?
if you look at it, there's only 30 million jews on earth vs. 1.3 billion muslims, and over another billion of buddhists and hidu's!

besides, isnt this "supposed" to be a secular country? why religious holidays then?


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## oldnewbie (Oct 26, 2005)

mantis said:
			
		

> like i said. in little sigon there could be one or two holidays a year. so the regular + 1 or 2 days.
> if you dont want this whole deal then are you okay if your kids go  to school on christmas day?
> why christmas and hunnuka(sp?) and not Eid and everything else?
> if you look at it, there's only 30 million jews on earth vs. 1.3 billion muslims, and over another billion of buddhists and hidu's!
> ...



I suppose I should have stated my opinion first...I agree with the decision. No religious holidays. What I was attempting to do was to understand all those upset with the ruling.

To answer you question, no I would not want my kids to attend school on christmas day, but not for religious reasons.


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## Mark L (Oct 28, 2005)

OnlyAnEgg said:
			
		

> In retrospect, I can't help but wonder if something as simple as a few 'floating' holidays wouldn't appease everyone?



Why do we feel the need to appease everyone?  We have several hundred years of cultural history in this country, and others have much longer history, that has gotten us to the state we are in regarding holidays.  The notion that we have to change all that now to accommodate anyone willing to raise there voice is ridiculous.  This is a democracy, really a constitutional republic, so let it work.  If there is a statistically significant portion of the population in any given community that advocates change, then do it.  If not, don't.

I heard yesterday that the principal of a middle school in Newton, MA has cancelled the traditional wearing of Halloween costumes to school on that day because someone finds it offensive, akin to devil worship or some such BS.  This really pisses me off!  A pack of 11 year olds running around dressed up like witches, Spongebob, and R2D2 hardly equates to  rampant disregard for accepted social, religious, or moral stances.  If you don't want your child exposed, keep them home.  But taking the privilege away from all to satisfy the petty whim of one is absurd.  

I do hope this kind of political correctness dies a quick and well deserved death.


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## oldnewbie (Nov 4, 2005)

Thought I'd post an update if anyone is interested...

The county councilmen decided that the school board made a mistake by taking out all religious holidays.. and have told the school board to go back to the way it was.

The Muslim individual is receiving hate emails..has apologized saying that he did not intend to have this happen....

School board is saying that they do not have to listen to the councilmen...

One of the Councilmen is on record saying .."If you don't like the way America is doing things.. don try to change us... go back where you came from..."

And the crap just keeps on comming....


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## arnisador (Nov 4, 2005)

Well, if it weren't for politics, newspapers would go out of business.

Thanks for the update!


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## oldnewbie (Nov 4, 2005)

arnisador said:
			
		

> Well, if it weren't for politics, newspapers would go out of business.



Well put.


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## mantis (Nov 5, 2005)

oldnewbie said:
			
		

> Thought I'd post an update if anyone is interested...
> 
> The county councilmen decided that the school board made a mistake by taking out all religious holidays.. and have told the school board to go back to the way it was.
> 
> ...


dude..
im in a martial arts forum and i receiving IM's trying to shut me up for sarcastically touching on some political stuff...
where's that thread about intolerance?
we need a new one for civil rights man... at least in this forum.. haha

I have a syrian friend who wrote a computer script to separate "hate mail" from his other mail.. that's how much he still receives! and he didnt ask for no holiday.

what i dont understand is, why did the guy apologize? he didnt do anything wrong.
please keep us updated


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## hong kong fooey (Nov 7, 2005)

I think it is a good idea for what the School system has done calling what used to be christmas break into winter break. it makes it so that it does not offend any religion


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## oldnewbie (Nov 8, 2005)

mantis said:
			
		

> dude..
> im in a martial arts forum and i receiving IM's trying to shut me up for sarcastically touching on some political stuff...
> where's that thread about intolerance?
> we need a new one for civil rights man... at least in this forum.. haha
> ...



I believe.. my opinion only... that he apologized because he did not intend for this to become such a huge issue, and of course to reduce the hate mail he was receiveing.

As for your IM's.. I appreciate sarcasm as well, but as with all things, in moderation.


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## oldnewbie (Nov 8, 2005)

hong kong fooey said:
			
		

> I think it is a good idea for what the School system has done calling what used to be christmas break into winter break. it makes it so that it does not offend any religion



I think renaming something doesn't really fix anything. It's the same days, we all know what it's really for.

As for offending.... I don't remember anything in our Constitution, or Bill of Rights, protecting people from being offended. I'm tired of the PC crap, and worrying about offending anyone.

When it comes to religions, there are so many that if we gave holidays for all of them, the kids would never go to school.

Tonight there will be a meeting to determine the "outcome".. will try to update.


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## oldnewbie (Nov 9, 2005)

Okay, Update #2

Last night the school board had a meeting in which they would allow the public to express there feelings about the issue, each person getting 2 minutes max.

The meeting lasted several hours...

When all was said and done, the board reversed it's decision, so we are now back the way we were before. We now have Easter Sunday, and Yom Kippur, but no Muslim holiday.

The Muslim spokeman, how was in favor of the reversal, and said that the Muslim community is at the begining of a civil rights struggle, and would try again next year.

Many eloquent opinions were expressed at the meeting which made the news. Overall this has made me do some hard thinking....


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## arnisador (Nov 9, 2005)

Did you speak?


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## oldnewbie (Nov 9, 2005)

No. I did not attend.

The news TV/radio stations have carried alot of the information. That's where I am getting the story. It's all over the place. It's this story and the one about the Carolina Cheerleaders. Must be a slow news week.


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## arnisador (Nov 9, 2005)

I have heard about the latter story courtesy of Jay Leno. I must say, it's more interesting than yours!


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## oldnewbie (Nov 9, 2005)

arnisador said:
			
		

> I have heard about the latter story courtesy of Jay Leno. I must say, it's more interesting than yours!



Yeah, Tampa's really making great news lately...


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