# The secret of the punch close to the target of Bruce Lee?



## Gangster D (May 1, 2020)

Everyone says that the matter is in the correct technique of applying the puncher. I agree with that. But the company where I want to buy the x1 simulator told me that the secret of a hard hit Bruce Lee in his strong wrist and hand. What do you think about this? And what do you think about these simulators? I don't want to buy all 3 simulators I will buy the x1 simulator they talk about it at the end of the video. I'm interested in your opinion . Or is it a waste of money?


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## Gerry Seymour (May 1, 2020)

The wrist and hand don't generate any significant amount of power for a punch, so immensely strong wrists won't dramatically increase the power of any punch (though they might allow you to use more power from the core of the body, safely).

As for the simulator, how much does it cost, and what are you expecting the value to be for yourself?


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## dvcochran (May 1, 2020)

I having a hard time seeing how/what the first device does. To me it looks like a cheat that would prevent the calf muscle from doing what it is supposed to thus never building the strength you are trying to gain.
I did not get the second device at all. If you do not want to wear weighted gloves just tape a gel weight to the back of the hand. Trainers have punchers/boxers do this all the time.
I can see the last device working, but probably not the way you are desiring. People have done a similar exercise using a ball and the open hand forever. I can see slight value in being able to close the hand for increasing wrist strength, but not very much. I don't think this exercise is going to do very much for making a harder punch however.


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## CB Jones (May 1, 2020)

Gangster D said:


> told me that the secret of a hard hit Bruce Lee in his strong wrist and hand.



The strength in your hand and wrist is important to create power or maintain power through kinematic chains


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## Gerry Seymour (May 1, 2020)

CB Jones said:


> The strength in your hand and wrist is important to create power or maintain power through kinematic chains


I don't think hand strength can create much power. It is important in maintaining it in the chain, as a weak link there would dissipate (for lack of a better term) what was generated. A weak wrist would also probably lead to laying off more on the power due to discomfort.


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## CB Jones (May 1, 2020)

And for baseball...doing wrist roller exercises are great for strengthen your wrists for stability.  I would think they would be good for punching stability as well.


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## skribs (May 1, 2020)

I don't really see the point of these.  The foot thing looks moderately useful, *if you have their shoes that it was designed for*, but you can just stay on the balls of your feet and get the same effect.  You could probably also wear heels, although those will be a little different.

The hand "simulator" just looks like those old shake weights in application.  I've never seen anything like that at a real gym...


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (May 1, 2020)

@Gangster D So everyone agrees that correct technique is what allowed for Bruce Lee's punch, except for this company, who state it was hand/wrist strength. And coincidentally, they happen to have something that will improve just that. Sure go for it.

On an unrelated note, did you know that the Brooklyn Bridge has a very low maintenance cost, but is actually currently privately owned. I work for the people who own it, and they're looking to sell control of access to it. They're losing money on it currently but that's only because they can't put a toll booth on it without hurting their image (I'm not allowed to disclose their names, but I'm certain you've heard of them). As a result, they're basically giving it away, 10k and the bridge is yours. Even with the low current traffic, setting up a toll booth and just charging a buck a car, you'll make your money back within a week! Let me know if you're interested.


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## Gangster D (May 1, 2020)

Here is what is written on their website . I see the logic in this
Innovative laboratory X presents X1 – a unique simulator having no counterparts. The tool is mainly intended to enhance your punches when fighting and make them shuttering.

Every fighter knows that a knockout punch can be relatively weak but it has to be sudden and invisible for the opponent. Surprise effect often compensates for little impact strength. X1 simulator will make your fist so powerful that you will knockout your opponent easily even without any suddenness. Therefore, “crushing blow” is the right phrase to describe the result you are going to get if you regularly work out with X1.

Now, let us find out what important physical aspects influence the impact strength:


proper technique;
proper fighting balance when delivering the blow;
speed and explosive work of your legs and arms;
one of the key aspects is transferring impact power to the target.
The impact strength is mainly lost when the hand contacts the target. At this time the fighter’s hand is under enormous load. In order to crush your opponent, you have to punch a little deeper into the target and at the same time reduce the reverse inertia of the blow not to let your hand damp in the wrist, elbow, shoulder and shoulder blade. And this is the crucial moment when stabilizing muscles (SM) start working. They fix your hand turning it into a monolith when it touches the target. X1 will help you develop your SM and reach a new level of your punch quality and power.



HOW X1 SIMULATOR WORKS

The simulator has correct geometry. It is distinguished by its peculiar design which directs the entire load to your two impact bones. When doing exercises in just three positions, you can get your hand, elbow, shoulder and shoulder blade MS engaged in work. Strengthening of your hand muscles is an additional effect.



HOW TO USE X1 SIMULATOR

Grip the simulator handle holding it between your index an middle fingers so that it covers both impact bones.

Take the plank position like for doing push-ups on fists, place the simulator on the floor on the protruding impact part located in the middle. Try to keep your balance while resting on the simulator. Duration: 15 seconds in each position.

Position #1. Straight arm. Hand and shoulder SM are involved.

Position #2. Arm bent at the elbow at about 165 degrees. Hand, elbow and shoulder SM are working.

Position #3. Arm bent at 90 degrees, shoulder blades brought together. Hand, shoulder and shoulder blade SM are involved.

             In order to develop your wrists and muscles, make circular motions on the floor resting on the simulator.

             As your arm strength grows, do push-ups with the simulator resting on its protruding impact part.

RECOMMENDATIONS FOR WORKING WITH X1


Use the simulator on an even and rigid surface.
We advise to start training with one simulator. This way, you can distribute the load by transferring your body weight from your free hand to the one with the simulator.
In order to make the exercise easier, rest your knees on the floor. When you feel that you can add some load, take the classical position for doing push-ups resting on your toes.
Always do a warm up before you start working out. Special attention should be given to your hands, elbow and shoulder joints as well as your cervical and lumbar parts.
Do a warm up with X1 before a fight by doing all the exercises 5 seconds each in each of the three positions. This will activate and engage your SM. Do not overexert yourself! If the load is applied for too long, it will result in SM fatigue and their contraction will become slower and weaker.


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## Dirty Dog (May 1, 2020)

PT Barnum was right.


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## Gangster D (May 1, 2020)

gpseymour said:


> The wrist and hand don't generate any significant amount of power for a punch, so immensely strong wrists won't dramatically increase the power of any punch (though they might allow you to use more power from the core of the body, safely).
> 
> As for the simulator, how much does it cost, and what are you expecting the value to be for yourself?


19 dollars for two pieces. I always felt that my wrists were very weak and when I saw this simulator I decided to try it


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## skribs (May 1, 2020)

Gangster D said:


> Here is what is written on their website . I see the logic in this
> Innovative laboratory X presents X1 – a unique simulator having no counterparts. The tool is mainly intended to enhance your punches when fighting and make them shuttering.
> 
> Every fighter knows that a knockout punch can be relatively weak but it has to be sudden and invisible for the opponent. Surprise effect often compensates for little impact strength. X1 simulator will make your fist so powerful that you will knockout your opponent easily even without any suddenness. Therefore, “crushing blow” is the right phrase to describe the result you are going to get if you regularly work out with X1.
> ...



After seeing this information, I no longer think it's a probable scam.

Now I *know* it's a *definite* scam.


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## Gangster D (May 1, 2020)

CB Jones said:


> And for baseball...doing wrist roller exercises are great for strengthen your wrists for stability.  I would think they would be good for punching stability as well.


Thanks


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## Gangster D (May 1, 2020)

skribs said:


> After seeing this information, I no longer think it's a probable scam.
> 
> Now I *know* it's a *definite* scam.


Do you think that the hand does not give strength to the punch?


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## Gerry Seymour (May 1, 2020)

Gangster D said:


> 19 dollars for two pieces. I always felt that my wrists were very weak and when I saw this simulator I decided to try it


At 19 dollars, not much to lose. If it turns out to be not any good, you're out less than $20. I doubt it will do anything spectacular, but probably won't do any harm.


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## skribs (May 1, 2020)

Gangster D said:


> Do you think that the hand does not give strength to the punch?



No, it does not.  Conditioning the hand will make you less likely to injure yourself.  The conditioning this device has you do will not condition your hand for more force, it will simply strengthen your hand.

Strengthening your hand will help with grips and joint manipulation for grappling.  This device does not appear to be the type of device that would *actually* strengthen your hand.

In other words, it doesn't do what it says it will do, and what it says it will do won't improve what it says it will improve.  It's multiple levels of a scam.


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## Gangster D (May 1, 2020)

skribs said:


> No, it does not.  Conditioning the hand will make you less likely to injure yourself.  The conditioning this device has you do will not condition your hand for more force, it will simply strengthen your hand.
> 
> Strengthening your hand will help with grips and joint manipulation for grappling.  This device does not appear to be the type of device that would *actually* strengthen your hand.
> 
> In other words, it doesn't do what it says it will do, and what it says it will do won't improve what it says it will improve.  It's multiple levels of a scam.


I know what you mean . But there is something to it. I noticed that knockouts have stronger hands . Now I'm talking about Boxing. Why, then, is Arthur Beterbiev standing on the rings?


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## Gangster D (May 1, 2020)

gpseymour said:


> At 19 dollars, not much to lose. If it turns out to be not any good, you're out less than $20. I doubt it will do anything spectacular, but probably won't do any harm.


I just wanted to hear people's opinions . In my country people are afraid and distrust something new


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## skribs (May 1, 2020)

Gangster D said:


> I know what you mean . But there is something to it. I noticed that knockouts have stronger hands . Now I'm talking about Boxing. Why, then, is Arthur Beterbiev standing on the rings?



How do you know his hands themselves are stronger?

The majority of the force in a punch comes from your legs and core.  Less from the arms, and 0 comes from your hands.

Your hands are simply what meets the target.  It would be like saying when you drive, the power comes from your wheels.  All your wheels do is transmit the power from the engine to the ground.  The engine is what has the power.  Getting stronger wheels won't make you go faster, but getting a stronger engine will.


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## skribs (May 1, 2020)

Gangster D said:


> I know what you mean . But there is something to it. I noticed that knockouts have stronger hands . Now I'm talking about Boxing. Why, then, is Arthur Beterbiev standing on the rings?



And even if strong hands made for stronger punches, this product wouldn't increase your hand strength.


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## drop bear (May 1, 2020)

gpseymour said:


> The wrist and hand don't generate any significant amount of power for a punch, so immensely strong wrists won't dramatically increase the power of any punch (though they might allow you to use more power from the core of the body, safely).
> 
> As for the simulator, how much does it cost, and what are you expecting the value to be for yourself?



You are only as strong as your weakest link. So if your core is good but your wrist gives out then the core isn't able to do its job.


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## skribs (May 1, 2020)

drop bear said:


> You are only as strong as your weakest link. So if your core is good but your wrist gives out then the core isn't able to do its job.



You'd still deliver the punch with power, you'd just hurt your hand doing it.


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## Gangster D (May 1, 2020)

skribs said:


> How do you know his hands themselves are stronger?
> 
> The majority of the force in a punch comes from your legs and core.  Less from the arms, and 0 comes from your hands.
> 
> Your hands are simply what meets the target.  It would be like saying when you drive, the power comes from your wheels.  All your wheels do is transmit the power from the engine to the ground.  The engine is what has the power.  Getting stronger wheels won't make you go faster, but getting a stronger engine will.


Even if the car will have the most powerful engine in the world, it will not be able to go without wheels. I was looking at the slow-motion punches of boxers and noticed that the stronger punches have those fighters who have less vibration in the wrist . The instructions just say that, too. So I was interested


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## Headhunter (May 1, 2020)

Gangster D said:


> I know what you mean . But there is something to it. I noticed that knockouts have stronger hands . Now I'm talking about Boxing. Why, then, is Arthur Beterbiev standing on the rings?


If you think hand strength is what causes knockouts then you need to do some more research. You do realise boxers are wearing big gloves with loads of padding around them and have their hands taped up like crazy. look you want to try this machine out then go for it but frankly it seems like a waste of your cash to me


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (May 1, 2020)

Gangster D said:


> Do you think that the hand does not give strength to the punch?


Wrist strength helps stabilize overall. But it's not where your strength is coming from.


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## Gangster D (May 1, 2020)

skribs said:


> And even if strong hands made for stronger punches, this product wouldn't increase your hand strength.


I see that this device gives a powerful load on the wrists


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## Gangster D (May 1, 2020)

Monkey Turned Wolf said:


> Wrist strength helps stabilize overall. But it's not where your strength is coming from.


Yes, I know that the shot starts with a push, then the hips rotate and the weight is transferred, but if your wrist is weak, then the hand can't transfer this energy to the target?


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (May 1, 2020)

Gangster D said:


> Yes, I know that the shot starts with a push, then the hips rotate and the weight is transferred, but if your wrist is weak, then the hand can't transfer this energy to the target?


It can, it's just you might hurt your wrist doing so. And unless you have naturally weak wrists, normal training should build them up with the rest of your muscles.


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## Gangster D (May 1, 2020)

Headhunter said:


> If you think hand strength is what causes knockouts then you need to do some more research. You do realise boxers are wearing big gloves with loads of padding around them and have their hands taped up like crazy. look you want to try this machine out then go for it but frankly it seems like a waste of your cash to me


Thank you for advice. I know I won't be as strong as the Hulk after this simulator. It's just that I've always known that wrist strength is the main weak link in transmitting power to a target. And my wrists always let me down. Although I also trained with weights I threw a fretboard I hit a tire with a sledgehammer but these exercises did not strengthen my wrist Yes it got better but not by much. So this question is very interesting to me


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## Gerry Seymour (May 1, 2020)

drop bear said:


> You are only as strong as your weakest link. So if your core is good but your wrist gives out then the core isn't able to do its job.


Yep, that's pretty much what I said in another post. The hands don't generate power, but they can cost you power.


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## Gerry Seymour (May 1, 2020)

skribs said:


> You'd still deliver the punch with power, you'd just hurt your hand doing it.


It's a matter of whether you can transfer the force and/or momentum to the target. If you hit with a soft hand, much of the force will dissipate in deforming the hand (with or without injury). And if you injure yourself even slightly a few times, you'll likely use less power in the future.


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## Gerry Seymour (May 1, 2020)

Gangster D said:


> Thank you for advice. I know I won't be as strong as the Hulk after this simulator. It's just that I've always known that wrist strength is the main weak link in transmitting power to a target. And my wrists always let me down. Although I also trained with weights I threw a fretboard I hit a tire with a sledgehammer but these exercises did not strengthen my wrist Yes it got better but not by much. So this question is very interesting to me


If you want to strengthen wrists and hands, look to exercises used by folks who need them. This gadget, while not expensive, isn't part of what most boxers, golfers, gymnasts, etc. use to strengthen their hands. For instance, Tiger woods used a newspaper (don't know if he still does). He'd lay it out flat, and crumple it one sheet at a time, with it laid flat. Give it a shot - it's a lot more work than it sounds.


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## skribs (May 1, 2020)

Gangster D said:


> Even if the car will have the most powerful engine in the world, it will not be able to go without wheels. I was looking at the slow-motion punches of boxers and noticed that the stronger punches have those fighters who have less vibration in the wrist . The instructions just say that, too. So I was interested



How do you see how much vibration is in their wrist when their wrist is taped up and covered by the glove?

You sound like a salesman of the company, trying to act like a prospective buyer to advertise here.  You act like you're looking for information, but then you argue with everyone in defense of the product.


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## yak sao (May 1, 2020)

Gangster D said:


> Grip the simulator handle holding it between your index an middle fingers so that it covers both impact bones.



The long bridge punch, or what Bruce Lee referred to as the "1 inch " punch, is delivered with the bottom 3 knuckles, not the top 2.


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## drop bear (May 2, 2020)

skribs said:


> You'd still deliver the punch with power, you'd just hurt your hand doing it.



Force will dissipate through your weak limp wrists.


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## drop bear (May 2, 2020)

Gangster D said:


> Thank you for advice. I know I won't be as strong as the Hulk after this simulator. It's just that I've always known that wrist strength is the main weak link in transmitting power to a target. And my wrists always let me down. Although I also trained with weights I threw a fretboard I hit a tire with a sledgehammer but these exercises did not strengthen my wrist Yes it got better but not by much. So this question is very interesting to me



But yeah. Knuckle push ups. Chances are if you are new at them you will get a serious wobble going.

Which is what you want to fix if you want an element to hitting hard.


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## Gangster D (May 2, 2020)

yak sao said:


> The long bridge punch, or what Bruce Lee referred to as the "1 inch " punch, is delivered with the bottom 3 knuckles, not the top 2.


But this blow will not be possible without a strong wrist? Thank you for clarifying this point


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## Gangster D (May 2, 2020)

skribs said:


> How do you see how much vibration is in their wrist when their wrist is taped up and covered by the glove?
> 
> You sound like a salesman of the company, trying to act like a prospective buyer to advertise here.  You act like you're looking for information, but then you argue with everyone in defense of the product.


I see their flex wrists from bump. I have nothing to do with this company. But when I saw these simulators, I was amazed. I also always argued with my coach, but not about that. There are many misconceptions in boxing. When I trained in the gym and prepared for the competition. A new guy came to our gym who had a naturally strong hand punch. I thought why this guy has such a strong blow, After all, he does not even know how to correctly beat his hand. So there are some things we don’t know about?


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## Tez3 (May 2, 2020)

Headhunter said:


> and have their hands taped up like crazy.




Taped so much that the tape is actually as hard as a Plaster of Paris cast used for broken limbs.


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## Cynik75 (May 2, 2020)

Gangster D said:


> ... Or is it a waste of money?


First one - your calves will not work so they will not develop strength and endurance. Like wearing heels will not make you better rope jumper. 
Second one - this will learn you not to hit the pad. As I understand those exercises you goal is to hit the pad with this something not with your hand. Why?
Third one - it can be useful to develop total body stabilization (wrist including) and it will help to be a better boxer in the way all calisthenics exercises help.


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## Headhunter (May 2, 2020)

Gangster D said:


> I see their flex wrists from bump. I have nothing to do with this company. But when I saw these simulators, I was amazed. I also always argued with my coach, but not about that. There are many misconceptions in boxing. When I trained in the gym and prepared for the competition. A new guy came to our gym who had a naturally strong hand punch. I thought why this guy has such a strong blow, After all, he does not even know how to correctly beat his hand. So there are some things we don’t know about?


Hmmmm...


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## Ivan (May 2, 2020)

Gangster D said:


> Everyone says that the matter is in the correct technique of applying the puncher. I agree with that. But the company where I want to buy the x1 simulator told me that the secret of a hard hit Bruce Lee in his strong wrist and hand. What do you think about this? And what do you think about these simulators? I don't want to buy all 3 simulators I will buy the x1 simulator they talk about it at the end of the video. I'm interested in your opinion . Or is it a waste of money?


There is no secret. Power for almost any correctly executed technique is generated in only two places. First, the ground - when you look at how boxers throw crosses or hooks, you see them lift their back foot on their toes. This is because they are using the ground to push off and generate a more explosive blow. The second place is the hips. The hips are important in maintaining the power generated, and their rotational energy transfer more power to the punch. In short, Bruce's one inch punch was powerful because in every video in which he demonstrates it, his back foot lifts up ever so slightly, and his entire body rotates.

A very good analogy in the role of muscles and the body in the amount of speed or power that they generate when fighting, is a quote from Morpheus in the first movie of the Matrix trilogy: "Do you think my body or my muscles have any impact on how strong or fast I am in here? [The computer simulation]".


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## Gangster D (May 2, 2020)

Ivan said:


> There is no secret. Power for almost any correctly executed technique is generated in only two places. First, the ground - when you look at how boxers throw crosses or hooks, you see them lift their back foot on their toes. This is because they are using the ground to push off and generate a more explosive blow. The second place is the hips. The hips are important in maintaining the power generated, and their rotational energy transfer more power to the punch. In short, Bruce's one inch punch was powerful because in every video in which he demonstrates it, his back foot lifts up ever so slightly, and his entire body rotates.
> 
> A very good analogy in the role of muscles and the body in the amount of speed or power that they generate when fighting, is a quote from Morpheus in the first movie of the Matrix trilogy: "Do you think my body or my muscles have any impact on how strong or fast I am in here? [The computer simulation]".


Yes, I know the strike technique . boxers raise the heel during a blow in order to transfer the weight of the body to the target. Yes you generate in two places but transfer all this power at the expense of the hand. After all if you poke the wall with a flexible twig it will bend and if you poke with a metal rod the damage will be greater . So it is with the hand


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## Gangster D (May 2, 2020)

Cynik75 said:


> First one - your calves will not work so they will not develop strength and endurance. Like wearing heels will not make you better rope jumper.
> Second one - this will learn you not to hit the pad. As I understand those exercises you goal is to hit the pad with this something not with your hand. Why?
> Third one - it can be useful to develop total body stabilization (wrist including) and it will help to be a better boxer in the way all calisthenics exercises help.


I understand that the muscles are strengthened due to the fact that the heel is hanging in the air .If the emphasis was located on the heel then you will not feel the load . but the emphasis is located in the middle of the foot and you hold the leg at the expense of the muscles


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## Ivan (May 2, 2020)

Gangster D said:


> Yes, I know the strike technique . boxers raise the heel during a blow in order to transfer the weight of the body to the target. Yes you generate in two places but transfer all this power at the expense of the hand. After all if you poke the wall with a flexible twig it will bend and if you poke with a metal rod the damage will be greater . So it is with the hand


The hand is rigid but doesn’t generate the power. If the hand was not curled up in a fist and wasn’t strong, the amount of power generated would still be the same.


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## Gangster D (May 2, 2020)

Ivan said:


> The hand is rigid but doesn’t generate the power. If the hand was not curled up in a fist and wasn’t strong, the amount of power generated would still be the same.


But to convey the force of a punch you need to have a strong wrist


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## Ivan (May 2, 2020)

Gangster D said:


> But to convey the force of a punch you need to have a strong wrist


Yes but a strong wrist is nothing if you don't pivot or push off the ground.


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## Cynik75 (May 2, 2020)

Gangster D said:


> I understand that the muscles are strengthened due to the fact that the heel is hanging in the air .If the emphasis was located on the heel then you will not feel the load . but the emphasis is located in the middle of the foot and you hold the leg at the expense of the muscles


You can be right. I've made small experiment with my wrestling shoes, two pieces of folded resistance band and adhesive tap. This have forced me to stand on my toes using my own strength. But the same came be done without this things.


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## Gangster D (May 2, 2020)

Cynik75 said:


> You can be right. I've made small experiment with my wrestling shoes, two pieces of folded resistance band and adhesive tap. This have forced me to stand on my toes using my own strength. But the same came be done without this things.


I wish I had shoes like yours )


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## drop bear (May 2, 2020)

Ivan said:


> Yes but a strong wrist is nothing if you don't pivot or push off the ground.



Yeah again you will be as strong as your weakest link.

The answer is fix all of it.


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## Cynik75 (May 2, 2020)

Ivan said:


> Yes but a strong wrist is nothing if you don't pivot or push off the ground.


It is necessary to have strong wrist no to generate power. It is necessary to prevent the wrist from being broken.


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## jks9199 (May 2, 2020)

Gangster D said:


> Here is what is written on their website . I see the logic in this
> Innovative laboratory X presents X1 – a unique simulator having no counterparts. The tool is mainly intended to enhance your punches when fighting and make them shuttering.
> 
> Every fighter knows that a knockout punch can be relatively weak but it has to be sudden and invisible for the opponent. Surprise effect often compensates for little impact strength. X1 simulator will make your fist so powerful that you will knockout your opponent easily even without any suddenness. Therefore, “crushing blow” is the right phrase to describe the result you are going to get if you regularly work out with X1.
> ...


Are you a native English speaker?  I'm asking because that was obviously translated from another language into English, and a non-native English speaker might miss those.  There are just too many odd phrasings like "sudden and invisible for the opponent" or "The simulator has correct geometry" and "peculiar design"... 

The secret to the power of the one-inch (or less...) punch is in knowing how to unite the body behind the punch.  It's not that it's a super-secret thing, or a muscle thing... it's knowing how to chain the muscle contractions and put the whole body behind the punch, and do that all in an instant.  It takes a lot of long practice, and it helps a lot if you have someone show you the way.  Gadgets won't teach it...

ETA:  Oh, lawdy...  I hadn't watched the video.  Whoever they paid to read their copy read it exactly.  Listen to it... it's got the same sort of grammar and syntax errors throughout.  (I guess the guy did what they asked, but you'd think he'd have said something about the phrasings rather than taking his money and running...  though...)


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## Gangster D (May 3, 2020)

jks9199 said:


> Are you a native English speaker?  I'm asking because that was obviously translated from another language into English, and a non-native English speaker might miss those.  There are just too many odd phrasings like "sudden and invisible for the opponent" or "The simulator has correct geometry" and "peculiar design"...
> 
> The secret to the power of the one-inch (or less...) punch is in knowing how to unite the body behind the punch.  It's not that it's a super-secret thing, or a muscle thing... it's knowing how to chain the muscle contractions and put the whole body behind the punch, and do that all in an instant.  It takes a lot of long practice, and it helps a lot if you have someone show you the way.  Gadgets won't teach it...
> 
> ETA:  Oh, lawdy...  I hadn't watched the video.  Whoever they paid to read their copy read it exactly.  Listen to it... it's got the same sort of grammar and syntax errors throughout.  (I guess the guy did what they asked, but you'd think he'd have said something about the phrasings rather than taking his money and running...  though...)


I have already said that I am not a native speaker of English. I understand there are no boxers here? Thank you all for your time. Everywhere you think a conspiracy. In my boxing room there is a ring, pears, barbell gloves should be their own. When I saw boxing simulators, I became interested and wanted to hear your opinion.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (May 3, 2020)

Gangster D said:


> I have already said that I am not a native speaker of English. I understand there are no boxers here? Thank you all for your time. Everywhere you think a conspiracy. In my boxing room there is a ring, pears, barbell gloves should be their own. When I saw boxing simulators, I became interested and wanted to hear your opinion.


You've got a couple boxers here. Or at least people who have been boxers at some time or another. The general idea thoigh is that that's a scam.


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## drop bear (May 3, 2020)

Gangster D said:


> I have already said that I am not a native speaker of English. I understand there are no boxers here? Thank you all for your time. Everywhere you think a conspiracy. In my boxing room there is a ring, pears, barbell gloves should be their own. When I saw boxing simulators, I became interested and wanted to hear your opinion.



They all do what you could do without equipment. Footwork drills, pad work drills and knuckle push ups. 

I don't know if these devices do it any better.


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## Gangster D (May 4, 2020)

Why does Pakiao do this exercise at 0;48


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## Gangster D (May 4, 2020)

Why is Lomachenko doing this exercise ?


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (May 4, 2020)

Gangster D said:


> Why is Lomachenko doing this exercise ?
> View attachment 22835


This exercise looks awesome for core stability. To get to the point your question is probably getting to, yes it probably requires strong wrists. But this is part of what I mentioned with your training should naturally be strengthening your wrists, without a need for a device like the one you linked.


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## Cynik75 (May 4, 2020)

The third device form your opening clip is the only one which can be useful little bit, but still it can be replaced with many other tools. The  first two advice are only waste o money.


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## dvcochran (May 4, 2020)

Gangster D said:


> Why is Lomachenko doing this exercise ?
> View attachment 22835


Try it and you will realize all the body parts it works.


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## jks9199 (May 4, 2020)

Gangster D said:


> I have already said that I am not a native speaker of English. I understand there are no boxers here? Thank you all for your time. Everywhere you think a conspiracy. In my boxing room there is a ring, pears, barbell gloves should be their own. When I saw boxing simulators, I became interested and wanted to hear your opinion.


Sometimes people reply to a post without seeing all of the posts in the thread for a variety of reasons, so sometimes things may be missed.

You asked for opinions; most of those responding aren't impressed with this gadget.  That doesn't make it a scam; the guys selling it may well be quite sincere and it may have worked for them, for their purpose.  But it's not the secret to heavy hands or to an explosive close range punch, either.  In the end, it's your money.  Buy it if you want.


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## ShortBridge (May 4, 2020)

No comment on the simulator, bit the energy of that punch (which was not invented by Bruce Lee) is not generated in the arms/wrists/hands. Certainly they are a link in the chain and it's good to be strong, but learning that punch is a different process altogether.


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## Gangster D (May 5, 2020)

ShortBridge said:


> No comment on the simulator, bit the energy of that punch (which was not invented by Bruce Lee) is not generated in the arms/wrists/hands. Certainly they are a link in the chain and it's good to be strong, but learning that punch is a different process altogether.


I think if Bruce Lee had a weak wrist, he wouldn't be able to transfer 100% of the energy of the strike to the target.


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## Gangster D (May 5, 2020)

I know which parts of the body generate energy. Just wondering if you have a weak wrist how it affects the force of a punch


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## Gweilo (May 5, 2020)

Gangster D said:


> I know which parts of the body generate energy. Just wondering if you have a weak wrist how it affects the force of a punch



The force of the punch will be the same, the power will be the same, it will hurt, but not as much as your broken wrist.


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## Gweilo (May 5, 2020)

Gangster D said:


> I know which parts of the body generate energy. Just wondering if you have a weak wrist how it affects the force of a punch



Ok, so where do you generate most of your power, for your punches?
Calf, thigh, back, shoulders? 
DB is correct, any weak point in the chain, will be exposed upon impact, and the recoil of energy resulting from the impact, the point will buckle, this puts your balance out, your posture will change, which will leave you vunerable, put your transitioning/timing off.


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## Gangster D (May 5, 2020)

Gweilo said:


> Ok, so where do you generate most of your power, for your punches?
> Calf, thigh, back, shoulders?
> DB is correct, any weak point in the chain, will be exposed upon impact, and the recoil of energy resulting from the impact, the point will buckle, this puts your balance out, your posture will change, which will leave you vunerable, put your transitioning/timing off.


Different power generated energy .If you hit with a jump forward then the legs hips body and arm work. If you apply a quick series of blows then the work of the legs and body is less than in the first version. in Boxing, there are still different techniques for striking. You also need to be able to carry the weight of the body for the force of the impact. but in either case the weak link is the wrist


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## drop bear (May 5, 2020)

Gangster D said:


> Why does Pakiao do this exercise at 0;48



And yes we do a lot of stability exercise.


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## Dirty Dog (May 6, 2020)

Gweilo said:


> The force of the punch will be the same, the power will be the same, it will hurt, but not as much as your broken wrist.



Let's be honest. You're going to break your hand long before you break your wrist. I've treated literally hundreds of boxers fractures. I cannot recall ever seeing a wrist broken by a punch. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, or even that I've never seen it (my memory ain't what it used to be...), but it's certainly a rarity compared to hand fractures.


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## Gweilo (May 6, 2020)

Dirty Dog said:


> Let's be honest. You're going to break your hand long before you break your wrist. I've treated literally hundreds of boxers fractures. I cannot recall ever seeing a wrist broken by a punch. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, or even that I've never seen it (my memory ain't what it used to be...), but it's certainly a rarity compared to hand fractures.



That depends on how you strike, if you strike with the most common way of forming the fist, rolling from the fingers, and striking with the knuckles only, when you are not used to striking firm objects, of course.
However, palms down, the knuckle joint bend 90 degrees,1st finger joint bend 90 degrees, leaving a small space, between fingers and palm, once discribed as holding a small stone, and strike with the flat of the fingers up to the knuckles, not so, the space acts as shock absorbtion, and as long as the wrist is strong, damage to the hand is vastly reduced, yes its a good idea to practice striking a solid object, but in systema (yes that art that reminds you of a microwave oven), we strike muscle and vunerable areas rather than bone on bone, and controlling the tension to only the part that needs it, we reduce the recoil energy almost completely, so we do not get stuck, and can continue to move or strike.


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## Dirty Dog (May 6, 2020)

Gweilo said:


> That depends on how you strike, if you strike with the most common way of forming the fist, rolling from the fingers, and striking with the knuckles only, when you are not used to striking firm objects, of course.
> However, palms down, the knuckle joint bend 90 degrees,1st finger joint bend 90 degrees, leaving a small space, between fingers and palm, once discribed as holding a small stone, and strike with the flat of the fingers up to the knuckles, not so, the space acts as shock absorbtion, and as long as the wrist is strong, damage to the hand is vastly reduced, yes its a good idea to practice striking a solid object, but in systema (yes that art that reminds you of a microwave oven), we strike muscle and vunerable areas rather than bone on bone, and controlling the tension to only the part that needs it, we reduce the recoil energy almost completely, so we do not get stuck, and can continue to move or strike.



No. It doesn't. We're talking about reality here, not "shoulda woulda coulda". I've treated thousands of people who were in fights. Given that hundreds of them had fractures of the hand and none (or not enough to remember, and frankly I remember unusual cases, so I'm pretty confident it's none at all) had wrist fractures, there is no rational way to disagree with the statement. You are going to break your hand before you break your wrist. Full stop.


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## dvcochran (May 6, 2020)

Gweilo said:


> That depends on how you strike, if you strike with the most common way of forming the fist, rolling from the fingers, and striking with the knuckles only, when you are not used to striking firm objects, of course.
> However, palms down, the knuckle joint bend 90 degrees,1st finger joint bend 90 degrees, leaving a small space, between fingers and palm, once discribed as holding a small stone, and strike with the flat of the fingers up to the knuckles, not so, the space acts as shock absorbtion, and as long as the wrist is strong, damage to the hand is vastly reduced, yes its a good idea to practice striking a solid object, but in systema (yes that art that reminds you of a microwave oven), we strike muscle and vunerable areas rather than bone on bone, and controlling the tension to only the part that needs it, we reduce the recoil energy almost completely, so we do not get stuck, and can continue to move or strike.


I do not understand the "leaving a small space, between fingers and palm" reference. It takes time but this is something we actively practice eliminating by the curling of the first finger joints filling in the space. You want as solid member as possible.


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## Gweilo (May 6, 2020)

Dirty Dog said:


> You are going to break your hand before you break your wrist. Full stop.


You hit someone with a bent or limp wrist, its going to break the wrist before the fist.


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## Gweilo (May 6, 2020)

dvcochran said:


> I do not understand the "leaving a small space, between fingers and palm" reference. It takes time but this is something we actively practice eliminating by the curling of the first finger joints filling in the space. You want as solid member as possible.



Traditionaly you are correct, and if you train to hit solid objects there should be little chance chance of injury.
The leaving a small space, where fingers wrap around, instead of completely filling the space leave a small gap, enough to fit a pebble. I have been taught like you, the solid object to strike, and the leave a space way, And I prefer the latter.


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## Headhunter (May 6, 2020)

Gangster D said:


> I have already said that I am not a native speaker of English. I understand there are no boxers here? Thank you all for your time. Everywhere you think a conspiracy. In my boxing room there is a ring, pears, barbell gloves should be their own. When I saw boxing simulators, I became interested and wanted to hear your opinion.


Actually yes I boxed for a long time, then kickboxing then Mma never did any specific wrist training, never had any issues throwing with power and never had any issues hurting my hands and I also do most of my bag work without gloves on and again never hurt my hands...so yeah I have no use for that gimmic waste of money


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## Headhunter (May 6, 2020)

Gangster D said:


> Why is Lomachenko doing this exercise ?
> View attachment 22835


Because his trainer told him to


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## ShortBridge (May 6, 2020)

@Gangster D it sounds like you had an answer in mind when you posted your question and you're going to debate any answer that you get that isn't that. That's cool, I guess, but I'm out. Training is good, do whatever you think will help you and report back.


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## Steve (May 6, 2020)

What about the shake weight?  It strengthens the arms, wrists, and hands.


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## Gweilo (May 6, 2020)

Heres another suggestion for strengthening the wrists, it is a montage of kwan lee, specifically watch the push up with the movement in the wrists.


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## Gangster D (May 6, 2020)

Headhunter said:


> Actually yes I boxed for a long time, then kickboxing then Mma never did any specific wrist training, never had any issues throwing with power and never had any issues hurting my hands and I also do most of my bag work without gloves on and again never hurt my hands...so yeah I have no use for that gimmic waste of money


Maybe that's why you didn't become a champion. I'm just kidding))


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## Gangster D (May 6, 2020)

ShortBridge said:


> @Gangster D it sounds like you had an answer in mind when you posted your question and you're going to debate any answer that you get that isn't that. That's cool, I guess, but I'm out. Training is good, do whatever you think will help you and report back.


Yes, thank you. I train in different ways. I do not like monotonous training so the body gets used to it and stops progressing. So I'm always looking for something new


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## Gangster D (May 6, 2020)

Steve said:


> What about the shake weight?  It strengthens the arms, wrists, and hands.


Keep that for yourself. It's not for nothing that this video is in your bookmarks)


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## Gangster D (May 6, 2020)

Steve said:


> What about the shake weight?  It strengthens the arms, wrists, and hands.


Grown men do this


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## Steve (May 6, 2020)

Gangster D said:


> Grown men do this


What about the Free Flexor?


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## Gweilo (May 6, 2020)

Gangster D said:


> Maybe that's why you didn't become a champion. I'm just kidding))


You remind me of someone else Brah, 
@Dirty Dog whilst I thoroughly respect your opinion on TKD and Korean arts, I am starting to beleive your mind is closed to other opinions, yes loyalty to an art is admirable, but restricting oneslf to one thing, is tant amount to stopping the learning process, I am hopefully coming to the states in september, ego aside, no menace or intent, implied, It would be a pleasure to meet, and learn from each other, I am going to stop there, as today, I am 50, and have just started to consume alcohol. Filmed or not, it would be great to exchange ideas.


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## Gangster D (May 6, 2020)

Gweilo said:


> You remind me of someone else Brah,
> @Dirty Dog whilst I thoroughly respect your opinion on TKD and Korean arts, I am starting to beleive your mind is closed to other opinions, yes loyalty to an art is admirable, but restricting oneslf to one thing, is tant amount to stopping the learning process, I am hopefully coming to the states in september, ego aside, no menace or intent, implied, It would be a pleasure to meet, and learn from each other, I am going to stop there, as today, I am 50, and have just started to consume alcohol. Filmed or not, it would be great to exchange ideas.


Friend, I would love to meet you. But I live where Golovkin lives


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## Gweilo (May 6, 2020)

Kazakhstan


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## Gweilo (May 6, 2020)

Good boxers, and horse riders


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## Gweilo (May 6, 2020)

@Dirty Dog , tin sandwhich


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## Gweilo (May 6, 2020)

Todays lesson, when you think you know, you suddenley find, the truth is not what you thought, there is always another angle


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## Buka (May 6, 2020)

Gweilo said:


> You remind me of someone else Brah,
> @Dirty Dog whilst I thoroughly respect your opinion on TKD and Korean arts, I am starting to beleive your mind is closed to other opinions, yes loyalty to an art is admirable, but restricting oneslf to one thing, is tant amount to stopping the learning process, I am hopefully coming to the states in september, ego aside, no menace or intent, implied, It would be a pleasure to meet, and learn from each other, I am going to stop there, as today, I am 50, and have just started to consume alcohol. Filmed or not, it would be great to exchange ideas.



Plan on coming to Hawaii by any chance?


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## Gweilo (May 6, 2020)

Love to


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## Gweilo (May 6, 2020)

Are you still upset about the culture thing?


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## Dirty Dog (May 6, 2020)

Gweilo said:


> You hit someone with a bent or limp wrist, its going to break the wrist before the fist.



And yet, this basically never happens. So either you're wrong, or nobody ever does this.
In either case, my statement remains correct. 
You're going to break your hand before you break your wrist. Because reality.


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## Buka (May 6, 2020)

Gweilo said:


> Are you still upset about the culture thing?



Nah.


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## Dirty Dog (May 6, 2020)

Gweilo said:


> You remind me of someone else Brah,
> @Dirty Dog whilst I thoroughly respect your opinion on TKD and Korean arts, I am starting to beleive your mind is closed to other opinions, yes loyalty to an art is admirable, but restricting oneslf to one thing, is tant amount to stopping the learning process, I am hopefully coming to the states in september, ego aside, no menace or intent, implied, It would be a pleasure to meet, and learn from each other, I am going to stop there, as today, I am 50, and have just started to consume alcohol. Filmed or not, it would be great to exchange ideas.



My statement has nothing to do with any art. It has to do with the real world. It has to do with human physiology, which just happens to be what my Masters is in. It has to do with emergency medicine, which just happens to be what I do for a living. Nobody breaks their wrist by punching. It just doesn't happen. I've been in the ER for roughly 40 years and I have never seen it. Not once. Hundreds and hundreds of broken hands, but no broken wrists. Not from punching. Is it possible? Sure, lots of things are possible. But it's incredibly rare.
That's not being closed minded. It's just being in the real world.
My statement is and was "you're going to break your hand before you break your wrist". Which you insist is wrong. Which means that in your world, people break their wrists at least as often as their hands when they punch things. And that is just nonsense.
So put up or shut up. Provide examples of people who broke their wrist by punching something. 
Bear in mind that in any given year, about 0.4% of the population will have a boxers fracture (I looked up the rate of occurrence, so this is a reasonably accurate number). That means  1.1-1.2 MILLION people break their hands by punching something. Every. Single. Year.
Put up or shut up. You're going to need to find a hella lot of cases of wrists broken by punching.


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## Steve (May 6, 2020)

Gweilo said:


> @Dirty Dog , tin sandwhich


I have no idea what that video has to do with this thread, but thanks for sharing it.  I thoroughly enjoyed it.


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## jks9199 (May 6, 2020)

Dirty Dog said:


> Let's be honest. You're going to break your hand long before you break your wrist. I've treated literally hundreds of boxers fractures. I cannot recall ever seeing a wrist broken by a punch. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, or even that I've never seen it (my memory ain't what it used to be...), but it's certainly a rarity compared to hand fractures.


Honestly -- I've sprained my wrist hitting a bag.  I've broken knuckles (and probably a boxer's fracture or two along the way) punching "other stuff."  I'd agree that an actual broken wrist is less likely, because the odds are that the breaking force will dissipate in the smaller bones of the hand first.


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## Gerry Seymour (May 6, 2020)

jks9199 said:


> Honestly -- I've sprained my wrist hitting a bag.  I've broken knuckles (and probably a boxer's fracture or two along the way) punching "other stuff."  I'd agree that an actual broken wrist is less likely, because the odds are that the breaking force will dissipate in the smaller bones of the hand first.


I'm trying to think through what leads to broken wrists as I understand them (as opposed to broken bones in the forearm, which I presume isn't what we're taking about), and it seems it's usually with a bent wrist (like catching yourself when falling). When punching, there's a lot of "bend" to dissipate that force before the force gets transmitted to the actual wrist joint. Some pulls and such would be common enough, but tears and breaks seem like they'd take a really bad punch to bend the wrist far enough.


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## Dirty Dog (May 7, 2020)

jks9199 said:


> Honestly -- I've sprained my wrist hitting a bag.  I've broken knuckles (and probably a boxer's fracture or two along the way) punching "other stuff."  I'd agree that an actual broken wrist is less likely, because the odds are that the breaking force will dissipate in the smaller bones of the hand first.



That's essentially what a boxers fracture is, although the purest definition would limit it to the 4th or 5th metacarpal. Mostly because those are by far the most common.



gpseymour said:


> I'm trying to think through what leads to broken wrists as I understand them (as opposed to broken bones in the forearm, which I presume isn't what we're taking about),



Deciding exactly where the wrist ends and the forearm begins is not exact. 





This shows grossly obvious radius and ulnar fractures. A super common wrist fracture. Most common cause is a FOOSH fall (Fall On Outstretched Supinated Hand). Something so common it has it's own name, just like the injury you get from punching something hard. Typically it's someone who tries to catch themselves when they fall, as opposed to tucking and rolling.
Broken wrist or broken forearm? There are carpals that are considered wrist bones, but it's fairly uncommon to see them broken. Most wrist fractures are as pictured; fractures of the distal radius and/or ulna.



> and it seems it's usually with a bent wrist (like catching yourself when falling). When punching, there's a lot of "bend" to dissipate that force before the force gets transmitted to the actual wrist joint. Some pulls and such would be common enough, but tears and breaks seem like they'd take a really bad punch to bend the wrist far enough.



Sprains of the wrist are common enough from punching if you have really weak wrists or really crappy technique (either through a lack of knowledge or just a slip up). Fractures are virtually unheard off.


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## Gweilo (May 8, 2020)

Dirty Dog said:


> Put up or shut up


I am trying, but its not my problem, people in your area punch like girls


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## Gweilo (May 8, 2020)

The conversation was weak wrist, not hand fractures, an incorrect strike with bent or weak wrist putsvit at risk, regardless of medical boundaries of what is the wrist, and what is the arm, anything that is around the bit that bends between the lower arm and the hand is the wrist, is an anatomical weak point


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## Dirty Dog (May 8, 2020)

Gweilo said:


> The conversation was weak wrist, not hand fractures, an incorrect strike with bent or weak wrist putsvit at risk, regardless of medical boundaries of what is the wrist, and what is the arm, anything that is around the bit that bends between the lower arm and the hand is the wrist, is an anatomical weak point



Actually, no. The statement you responded to was 'you will break your hand long before you break your wrist.'

You can backpedal, you can just say you made a mistake of some sort, or you can support your claims. Or you can keep being foolish and claiming that you're going to break your wrist by punching something.


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## Gweilo (May 10, 2020)

The 1st post I responded to was post #65, about what happens to a punch with weak wrists.


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## Gweilo (May 10, 2020)

If you strike with a bent or limp wrist, it will break, now anatomically or technically the bones maybe part of the hand or arm thats an arguement for doctors and surgeons and anyone else in that field. In my mind anywhere in that 2 or 3 inch region is the wrist, no matter how high your horse is.


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## Gweilo (May 16, 2020)

So anyhow, with no further response from dirty dog, I will second the motion provided by Dropbear, if its weak, work on it, I would suggest, pushups on the knuckles, then a circular motion of the wrist, whilst in flow of the push up, this will help to keep the wrist straight on impact, and lessen the potential injury to the wrist, and do practise hitting solid objects, to reduce the injury to the hand.


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## Dirty Dog (May 16, 2020)

Gweilo said:


> So anyhow, with no further response from dirty dog, I will second the motion provided by Dropbear, if its weak, work on it, I would suggest, pushups on the knuckles, then a circular motion of the wrist, whilst in flow of the push up, this will help to keep the wrist straight on impact, and lessen the potential injury to the wrist, and do practise hitting solid objects, to reduce the injury to the hand.



I'm still waiting for you to post some support for your ridiculous claim.


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## Gweilo (May 17, 2020)

Thats easy, go punch a heavy bag with bent loose wrists.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (May 17, 2020)

Gweilo said:


> Thats easy, go punch a heavy bag with bent loose wrists.


I've done that when I was angry and dumb. I ended up hurting my wrist, and even spraining them. Never fractured them. I have fractured my pinky bones hitting a pole (didn't fracture my wrists though) hitting a pole in college while angry. I think that you're either getting a fracture and sprain mixed up, assuming hand fractures are the same as wrist fractures, or going by what you were taught rather than actual experience. Or you may have been the (extremely) rare person to actually fracture your wrist punching a heavy bag. If the last one is the case, you should have medical records of it: post the xray images on here and it would clear up a lot of the confusion.


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## Gweilo (May 17, 2020)

Monkey Turned Wolf said:


> I've done that when I was angry and dumb. I ended up hurting my wrist, and even spraining them. Never fractured them. I have fractured my pinky bones hitting a pole (didn't fracture my wrists though) hitting a pole in college while angry. I think that you're either getting a fracture and sprain mixed up, assuming hand fractures are the same as wrist fractures, or going by what you were taught rather than actual experience. Or you may have been the (extremely) rare person to actually fracture your wrist punching a heavy bag. If the last one is the case, you should have medical records of it: post the xray images on here and it would clear up a lot of the confusion.



I have never broken a wrist or hand, whatever art I have trained in, I have always been taught, strong straigth wrist in a strike, or you wiil break it, whether Dirty Dog beleives or knows these bones are techniqually the lower arm or hand, like in post #105, to me that couple of inches is the wrist, and always been taught that. My trade is a Horticulturalist, not a Doctor or surgeon, yes I agree, you are more likley to damage the hand in a strike, but is it impossible to break the wrist during a strike? Has it NEVER happened?  Throughout this conversation, I have not claimed DD experience or knowledge to be incorrect, the only thing I stated was I respected his TKD knowledge, but because something is not in line with his knowledge, does not make it incorrect.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (May 17, 2020)

Gweilo said:


> I have never broken a wrist or hand, whatever art I have trained in, I have always been taught, strong straigth wrist in a strike, or you wiil break it, whether Dirty Dog beleives or knows these bones are techniqually the lower arm or hand, like in post #105, to me that couple of inches is the wrist, and always been taught that. My trade is a Horticulturalist, not a Doctor or surgeon, yes I agree, you are more likley to damage the hand in a strike, but is it impossible to break the wrist during a strike? Has it NEVER happened?  Throughout this conversation, I have not claimed DD experience or knowledge to be incorrect, the only thing I stated was I respected his TKD knowledge, but because something is not in line with his knowledge, does not make it incorrect.


I don't think he stated it would it never happened either. I'd have to go back through the thread, but I'm fairly certain that his posts stated that it is much less likely to happen compared to fractures to the metacarpals or phalanges.


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## dvcochran (May 17, 2020)

Gweilo said:


> I have never broken a wrist or hand, whatever art I have trained in, I have always been taught, strong straigth wrist in a strike, or you wiil break it, whether Dirty Dog beleives or knows these bones are techniqually the lower arm or hand, like in post #105, to me that couple of inches is the wrist, and always been taught that. My trade is a Horticulturalist, not a Doctor or surgeon, yes I agree, you are more likley to damage the hand in a strike, but is it impossible to break the wrist during a strike? Has it NEVER happened?  Throughout this conversation, I have not claimed DD experience or knowledge to be incorrect, the only thing I stated was I respected his TKD knowledge, but because something is not in line with his knowledge, does not make it incorrect.


If what is said is by an expert in the field, it is logical to believe that it is correct. The discussion has relevance regarding an area that @Dirty Dog is an expert in plus he has a Ton of experience working in the ER environment. I would listen to him. He is speaking in specifics and you are speaking in generalities, moving the 'area' of the wrist out to fit your argument. 
Hand or wrist? Does it really matter what breaks if you know what you are doing is going to cause it?

We have all had to learn that something we were told all of our life was not quite correct, sometimes not correct at all. 
Wisdom is shown when we research and are open minded enough to accept the truth. Ignoring it because it is not historically correct in our mind is well, something entirely different from wisdom.


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## jobo (May 17, 2020)

Gweilo said:


> I have never broken a wrist or hand, whatever art I have trained in, I have always been taught, strong straigth wrist in a strike, or you wiil break it, whether Dirty Dog beleives or knows these bones are techniqually the lower arm or hand, like in post #105, to me that couple of inches is the wrist, and always been taught that. My trade is a Horticulturalist, not a Doctor or surgeon, yes I agree, you are more likley to damage the hand in a strike, but is it impossible to break the wrist during a strike? Has it NEVER happened?  Throughout this conversation, I have not claimed DD experience or knowledge to be incorrect, the only thing I stated was I respected his TKD knowledge, but because something is not in line with his knowledge, does not make it incorrect.


 im in no position to says its impossibly or never happened, just that its seems an unlikely out come, including in that assessment people i know who have broken their hand punching walls refrigerators etc of which there are quite a few

its seems an usual  set of circumstance that someone would have the development to throw a punch capable of breaking a wrist whilst not having the forearm strength to resist moving the wrist so far that it broke, unless they have brittle bones or some other unfortunate condition


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## seasoned (May 17, 2020)

Gangster D said:


> Everyone says that the matter is in the correct technique of applying the puncher. I agree with that. But the company where I want to buy the x1 simulator told me that the secret of a hard hit Bruce Lee in his strong wrist and hand. What do you think about this? And what do you think about these simulators? I don't want to buy all 3 simulators I will buy the x1 simulator they talk about it at the end of the video. I'm interested in your opinion . Or is it a waste of money?


A strong wrist and hand will not add power to the punch but a weak combo will diminish it. Structure, movement and breath = power. A good strong punch comes from a chain reaction starting from the ground moving through the legs and hips through the shoulder arm and fist. A two hundred pound person can hit hard but the trick is to get the one hundred and fifty pound person to hit like the two hundred pound one.


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## Gweilo (May 18, 2020)

jobo said:


> im in no position to says its impossibly or never happened, just that its seems an unlikely out come, including in that assessment people i know who have broken their hand punching walls refrigerators etc of which there are quite a few
> 
> its seems an usual  set of circumstance that someone would have the development to throw a punch capable of breaking a wrist whilst not having the forearm strength to resist moving the wrist so far that it broke, unless they have brittle bones or some other unfortunate condition



As I have stated, I do not disagree with 90% of injuries from strikes are to the hand, i.e the boxers fracture, but DD claimed I was talking from la la land with regards to wrist fractures, due to his knowledge and expertise, I will end my participation inbthis thread here, but leave you with the following link to a paper released in the US and the EU, which discusses hand and WRIST fractures through strikes.

Punch Injuries: Insights into Intentional Closed Fist Injuries


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## Gweilo (May 18, 2020)

P.s the paper is from a Californian university, and is based on REAL WORLD injuries, if you cannot read it all, just forward to page 4 (so not far) which is opening comments on the paper, and pay particular notice to the words, MOST COMMON FRACTURES TO THE HANDS AND SMALL BONES OF THE WRIST, when talking about closed fist fractures.


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## Dirty Dog (May 18, 2020)

Gweilo said:


> As I have stated, I do not disagree with 90% of injuries from strikes are to the hand, i.e the boxers fracture, but DD claimed I was talking from la la land with regards to wrist fractures, due to his knowledge and expertise, I will end my participation inbthis thread here, but leave you with the following link to a paper released in the US and the EU, which discusses hand and WRIST fractures through strikes.
> 
> Punch Injuries: Insights into Intentional Closed Fist Injuries



Nope. You're completely misrepresenting what I said. What I actually said was that you'd be FAR MORE LIKELY to break your hand than your wrist.
The report you quote agrees with me. According to it, 99% of the fractures in that study were hand fractures, with 4th and 5th metacarpal fractures ALONE accounting for 67%. 
So basically you've posted a link to a study that agrees exactly with what I've said.


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## Gweilo (May 18, 2020)

Dirty Dog said:


> And yet, this basically never happens. So either you're wrong, or nobody ever does this.
> In either case, my statement remains correct.
> You're going to break your hand before you break your wrist. Because reality.


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## Gweilo (May 18, 2020)

Dirty Dog said:


> My statement has nothing to do with any art. It has to do with the real world. It has to do with human physiology, which just happens to be what my Masters is in. It has to do with emergency medicine, which just happens to be what I do for a living. Nobody breaks their wrist by punching



The very last bit.


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## Gweilo (May 18, 2020)

Dirty Dog said:


> Nope. You're completely misrepresenting what I said. What I actually said was that you'd be FAR MORE LIKELY to break your hand than your wrist.



"NOBODY BREAKS THEIR WRIST BY PUNCHING", your words, quoted in the pervoius post, I am not in any way misrepresenting what you said, unless never means something else in the US.
I am always willing to learn, but the quotes from you in my posts #118 & #119, there is only 1 of us confused.


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## ShortBridge (May 18, 2020)

None of this has anything to do with Bruce Lee or the "1-Inch punch". To be honest, I'm not sure that the OP's question did either, though. This whole discussion...


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## Gweilo (May 18, 2020)

Ok, 1 inch punch, real or WC trick?
Never trained WC, but trained with a few guys, some say its real, others its a trick, dont know, never trained, and never had it demonstrated, you?


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## jobo (May 18, 2020)

Gweilo said:


> Ok, 1 inch punch, real or WC trick?
> Never trained WC, but trained with a few guys, some say its real, others its a trick, dont know, never trained, and never had it demonstrated, you?


i can hit you hard enough to make you step back from that range, though its some what debatable if its a short range punch or a good push with my fist


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (May 18, 2020)

jobo said:


> i can hit you hard enough to make you step back from that range, though its some what debatable if its a short range punch or a good push with my fist


I'd agree. I can absolutely (and probably most of us) can do a 1-inch _push._


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## Gweilo (May 18, 2020)

I agree with short punches, but can you generate the power, to make someone topple back 6ft, sit in a chair, the do a backwards roll, from 1 inch?
I agree you can inflict pain or discomfort, with pheonix eye strike, or strikes to vunerable areas, but usually to make space, or a distraction from a secondary attack, but can you generate real power from such a short distance.
At school we used to place the fingers, out stretched, to the solar plex, drop a punch in and the receiver would jolt back a bit, and maybe wind them, but this was they stood without a balanced stance, and usually feet together, so Imo, if you tried this on a balanced stance, it would have minimal effect.


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## ShortBridge (May 18, 2020)

It is both real and over-sensationalized by those B&W Bruce Lee videos, but I don't think that's what the OP was interested in either. He wanted to know what we thought about the wrist strengthening device so that he could tell us that we were wrong and he was going to buy it. This whole discussion was doomed to begin with, even before it because an experience vs feeling vs stats debate on punching and wrist injuries.


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## Gweilo (May 18, 2020)

And the op was advised there are other cheaper methods push ups on the fists etc


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## Gweilo (May 18, 2020)

The op was also advised, fix the weak element, any weak link, can result in injury, fracture or otherwise


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## Gweilo (May 18, 2020)

@ShortBridge , reading your signature, WC, you surely understand the method of discouragement, attack tension, to create more imbalance, which gives you more options to attack the entity or the structure of that entity, the more tension, the more opportunity, the more opportunity, the easier it is to break the will to fight, the more they fight, the more tension, the more targets.


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## Gweilo (May 18, 2020)

Should of added, the morevweak points the more vunerable your opponent is


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## Gerry Seymour (May 20, 2020)

Gweilo said:


> I agree with short punches, but can you generate the power, to make someone topple back 6ft, sit in a chair, the do a backwards roll, from 1 inch?
> I agree you can inflict pain or discomfort, with pheonix eye strike, or strikes to vunerable areas, but usually to make space, or a distraction from a secondary attack, but can you generate real power from such a short distance.
> At school we used to place the fingers, out stretched, to the solar plex, drop a punch in and the receiver would jolt back a bit, and maybe wind them, but this was they stood without a balanced stance, and usually feet together, so Imo, if you tried this on a balanced stance, it would have minimal effect.


If they're standing on their heels, probably. Once they're pushed beyond those double-weighted heels, the rest is done by their own bodyweight.


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## Gangster D (Jul 10, 2020)

Gweilo said:


> And the op was advised there are other cheaper methods push ups on the fists etc


I don't think regular push UPS can be compared to these
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Файл:Отжимания_на_тренажере_Х1-PRgv


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## Gweilo (Jul 11, 2020)

Gangster D said:


> I don't think regular push UPS can be compared to these
> https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Файл:Отжимания_на_тренажере_Х1-PRgv



Will try them, but most are limited by their own imagination, when it comes to basic exercises, we use the push up to help develop our striking technique, improve our linked core strength with flexability.


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## Gangster D (Jul 11, 2020)

Gweilo said:


> Will try them, but most are limited by their own imagination, when it comes to basic exercises, we use the push up to help develop our striking technique, improve our linked core strength with flexability.


Interestingly such push-UPS are useful for a fighter?


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## Kung Fu Wang (Jul 11, 2020)

Gweilo said:


> Ok, 1 inch punch, real or WC trick?


You can punch out in 2 steps process:

1. Throw a non-committed punch (arm lead body). If your punch miss the target, you pull back and punch again. 
2. If your punch land on target, you then add your body weight behind it (body chase arm).

In theory, this can be done. It's just like your finger tips touch on the wall, you then drop your palm and hit that wall.

Has anybody every developed this kind of power generation successfully? IMO, this kind of power generation method is easy to do in demo. It's hard to do in fighting.


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## Oily Dragon (Jul 12, 2020)

One inch?

What about three?  Saam chuen.


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## angelariz (Jul 12, 2020)

Training Ving Tsun is how you learn close range power strikes. 
There is no machine that will help incorrect form.


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## Buka (Jul 12, 2020)

Gweilo said:


> Will try them, but most are limited by their own imagination, when it comes to basic exercises, we use the push up to help develop our striking technique, improve our linked core strength with flexability.



Nice. But have to get off those back three knuckles. Have to do them on the front two.


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## Gweilo (Jul 13, 2020)

Buka said:


> Nice. But have to get off those back three knuckles. Have to do them on the front two.



We strike with all 4 knuckles, its in the way we form the fist, which is one of the subtle differences of our arts.


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## dvcochran (Jul 13, 2020)

Buka said:


> Nice. But have to get off those back three knuckles. Have to do them on the front two.


I also prefer to use the first two knuckles, same as in a punch. We alternate fist/arm rotation and spread distance from hand to hand. 
I don't think I could do the two balls anymore but used to use one ball regularly. The nearest equivalent I do is placing my feet on a step while doing pushups.


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## Gangster D (Jul 18, 2020)

The Anatomy of a Punch - Bespoke
The muscles of the forearm are primarily used to make a fist and also as stabilizers during a punch to keep the wrist straight. The wrist flexors are on the palm side of the forearm close the fist and stabilize the wrist. The extensors are on the back side of the forearm and also stabilize the wrist. Keeping a straight wrist is important for efficient delivery of force but even more important for staying healthy and able. Impact without a straight wrist can quickly injure the small ligaments of the wrist.


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## FinalStreet (Aug 3, 2020)

Punch is different for Everybody. So only foundation can help


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## Gangster D (Sep 30, 2020)




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## Gangster D (Feb 28, 2021)




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