# Steve Stewert: No touch knock out?



## kkbb

You have to see this: http://www.ssmma.com/Gallery/Gallery_Video.html#
Scroll down to no touch knock out!
Can't believe guys like this get away with crap & people flock to him... 

Also heard a story about Mr. Stewart that he went from 3rd brown to 4th black (promoted by Mr. Donavan) when he opened his school then tested with the WKKA (who took his 4th rank at face value) using Orange belt techniques. Now I hear that those KYUs that Stewart tested between 1999 and 2002  may not have legit ranks (http://www.wkka.org scroll down to bottom of page) with the WKKA.  Anybody got more? Am I right or wrong?:asian:


----------



## arnisador

I can't get to the videos!


----------



## tshadowchaser

I was able to view it . Im not beliving the no touch . some of the rest of it looks not so liit to my eyes BUT i have not sen it in person


----------



## tshadowchaser

ok after watching a little more of the site I really dont belive in this guy


----------



## Disco

At the end of the knockout video, a guy to the right of the screen is standing up. He's wearing a red GM belt. Looks like Dillman to me. He's kind of infamous for that no touch knockout stuff. Mabey this was one of his higher students doing the demo? Do I believe in no touch knockouts? You bet...... I saw one the other night. Long blonde hair, about 5'6", 130 and 36-24-36. :rofl:


----------



## Datu Tim Hartman

Yes, that was George.


----------



## Shiatsu

This type of thing is such a load of crap.  I want to see it done full speed on a competent attacker, anyone with some experiance.  Dillman does prove a point in itself to though.  

Who the hell taught this guy?:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


----------



## tmanifold

I had a wonderful article about that on my website but after the author was threatened with a lawsuit I had to take it down. Google Exposing Martial arts/ self defence trickery. It is probably still kicking around the net somewhere.

Tony


----------



## Cthulhu

I saw the video, arni...you ain't missin' much.  If you've ever seen a video clip of a Dillman or Mooney 'no touch' KO, it's nothing new.

Here's the funny thing about that 'KO': it looks like the techniques demonstrated were from self-defense scenarios.  The 'KO' was done on a guy that was holding Stewart's lapels with both hands.  The 'KO' also took about 10 seconds to apply while the 'attacker' just stood there holding him.  Sorry buddy, but if an attacker grabs you like that and sees you trying to do some mumbojumbo for 10 seconds, any attacker with a firing brain cell is gonna let go and turn your face into hamburger.

My belief is that if you believe in 'no touch' KOs, then it's likely you'll be succeptible to them.  If you have any amount of logical reasoning ability, no one will be able to do it to you. 

Then again, the vast majority of the time, whoever is getting 'KO'd' is probably a plant.

Cthulhu


----------



## Cthulhu

Oh, sweet merciful crap.  The last video on that page has a 'no-touch' KO from about 10 feet away.

Can you smell the male bovine excrement?

Cthulhu


----------



## arnisador

> _Originally posted by Cthulhu _
> *I saw the video, arni...you ain't missin' much.  If you've ever seen a video clip of a Dillman or Mooney 'no touch' KO, it's nothing new. *



I've seen them done by him in person. Stage magic.

See also:
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3304


----------



## pknox

This guy may not touch his opponent, but I'll bet he sure touches people's wallets. :shrug:


----------



## don bohrer

Has anyone here volunteered or had a trusted friend volunteer for a no touch knock up, I mean... out? What I constantly hear on this subject is the believers line up and attend and the nay sayers just read or watch videos on this. I'm in the nay sayer group btw.  :shrug: 


don


----------



## Cthulhu

> _Originally posted by don bohrer _
> *Has anyone here volunteered or had a trusted friend volunteer for a no touch knock up, I mean... out? What I constantly hear on this subject is the believers line up and attend and the nay sayers just read or watch videos on this. I'm in the nay sayer group btw.  :shrug:
> 
> 
> don *



From what I understand, if they can't get it to work on someone (i.e. a non-believer), they make up some excuse as to why it didn't work: it doesn't work on everyone, the chi isn't right, the sun's not at the correct angle, you didn't pay me enough, etc etc etc.

Cthulhu


----------



## don bohrer

don





> From what I understand, if they can't get it to work on someone (i.e. a non-believer)



Punches work on non believers, and in a timely fashion too! 

To bad we didn't have a willing MT guinee pig for stuff like this. That way whenever someone made claims such as this we could send em our test subject. Then we'd know if its legit or just something in the cool aid! 

don


----------



## Rich Parsons

> _Originally posted by don bohrer _
> *don
> 
> Punches work on non believers, and in a timely fashion too!
> 
> To bad we didn't have a willing MT guinee pig for stuff like this. That way whenever someone made claims such as this we could send em our test subject. Then we'd know if its legit or just something in the cool aid!
> 
> don *



Yes, the last thing we need is knuckle dragging Neaderthal to show up to one of these events and to have lots of people pay attention to him (* No disrespect to the female half othe population I just do not think of them as knuckle dragging Neaderthals  *), to see if this will work on him. Yet I also think they would make comments like well there are people more suseptable and there are people less suseptable to the pressure point or knock out. In this case it might even be the persons think skull.

Any Volunteers? You need be a knuckle Dragging Neaderthal, that was just my side comment.


----------



## TonyM.

With my 56K dial up speed that was time from my life I'll NEVER get back. That stuff probably only works on people that have never played dominoes.


----------



## Ceicei

> _Originally posted by don bohrer _
> *
> To bad we didn't have a willing MT guinee pig for stuff like this. That way whenever someone made claims such as this we could send em our test subject. Then we'd know if its legit or just something in the cool aid!
> 
> don *



Would you like to volunteer?

- Ceicei


----------



## tmanifold

I would volunteer for this type of stuff but I am unwilling to spend 50, 100 dollars or more for the opportunity. By the very act of wanting to attend a seminar you already have implanted the suggestion that this could work. All he has to do is re-enforce that suggestion.

This kind of stuff reeks of stage style hyponsis. Watch some of his video's and compare them with what you know of stage hypnotism and you will see some parallels.

Tony


----------



## arnisador

> _Originally posted by Cthulhu _
> *From what I understand, if they can't get it to work on someone (i.e. a non-believer), they make up some excuse as to why it didn't work: it doesn't work on everyone, the chi isn't right, the sun's not at the correct angle, you didn't pay me enough, etc etc etc.*



I've actually heard that it was because the person had his toes curled up, not down. (No joke.) This was at a DKI event.

I've only ever seen it done on their own students.


----------



## Datu Tim Hartman

I wouldn't hammer Stewart on this one. This is a DKI thing.


----------



## arnisador

> _Originally posted by Renegade _
> *This is a DKI thing. *



Yes.


----------



## ABN

We were at a birthday party for a friend about a year and a half ago when a DKI disciple overheard us discussing sparring. He immediately started raving about the no touch aspects of his art and wanted to demonstrate. His guinea pig was a friend of mine who is an FBI agent, we'll call him Bill. 

He stood behind him and, with a look of concentration worthy of the most malevolent  wizard (think Houdini meets Dr. Mindbender while everyone else is thinking Johnny Carson as Karnack), extended his hands and stared at Bill's back. This went on for several minutes while Bill continued to sip his beer and the rest of us continued our conversations. Finally the disciple practically yelled "See! You Moved!" Bill congratulated him on his technique and the night moved on.

Later Bill admitted that the wobble attributed to the no touch method was more related to the several beers and shots of Jaeger that had been consumed. Who knows, it might work, but I've yet to see it.

andy


----------



## don bohrer

> Would you like to volunteer?



Ceicei,
Not me! I'd be the first person in history that this no touch crap would really work on then everybody would be doing it to me! :shrug:  

I do subscribe to the idea that not every thing we learn has to be directly related to combat training, but should positively support your training so you can progress as a martial artist. I've had my opinions changed many times by correct instruction or interpetation of techs. My haughty little brain has more than once said this is crap... until I understood it! So I have an open mind but sometimes poke fun at stuff I don't really understand. 


don


----------



## hardheadjarhead

I VOLUNTEER FOR THE NO-TOUCH KNOCKOUT.  

I will be more than happy to represent the MT skeptics.

With the following condition:

1.  Nobody can "catch" me or touch me. I was at a Dillman seminar and he smacked me with a palm on the forehead pretty briskly.  His people then "caught" me by dragging me down by the back of the collar.  Dillman said "He's doing down!  He's going down!"  I wasn't going down...and I never went out.  Its all on his Bassai video.  His wife was filming it, and managed to keep the "catchers" out of frame.

2.  Nobody resucitates me.  If I don't need reviving, I don't want anybody giving me the illusion that I need it.  In fact, I don't want anyone NEAR me, other than the hitter.

3.  I want it videotaped by MT skeptics.

4.  I want to be allowed to bet on the outcome of the event.  

I'm fully serious here.  Anybody want to set it up?

By the way, I'm almost a knuckle dragger.  I'm a second generation biped.  I had corrective surgery to remove three inches from each radius and ulna and both humerus bones.  They were then inserted into my tibias, fibulas, and femurs.  We've had a bit of a problem with the brow ridge issue.

Regards,

Steve Scott


----------



## Aegis

If anyone stupidly takes you up on your offer, can I have a copy of the tape afterwards?


----------



## arnisador

> _Originally posted by hardheadjarhead _
> *I VOLUNTEER FOR THE NO-TOUCH KNOCKOUT.
> 
> I will be more than happy to represent the MT skeptics.
> 
> With the following condition:
> 
> 1.  Nobody can "catch" me or touch me. I was at a Dillman seminar and he smacked me with a palm on the forehead pretty briskly.  His people then "caught" me by dragging me down by the back of the collar.  Dillman said "He's doing down!  He's going down!"  I wasn't going down...and I never went out. *



Yup.

I have volunteered for the pressure point KOs before--I _always_ volunteer. Evidently I am in the 10% that are resistant to them.

There is a lot of "selling" like you mention going on, including "He was out on his feet!" when one doesn't fall.

I believe some of the p.p. stuff works (and some doesn't). The no-touch stuff is stage magic.


----------



## hardheadjarhead

> The no-touch stuff is stage magic.



Having been to Las Vegas, I can say without a doubt that stage magic is a LOT better than this.

Here are the reasons I imagine they'll list for NOT doing it, if we requested it.

1.  I'm too old, and it'd kill me.
2.  My high forehead or baldness (or whatever) would prevent it from working.  I'd be one of those rare people resistant to it.
3.  My high forehead/baldness (or whatever) would make me overly vulnerable to it, and it would kill me.
4.  The negative energy of the skeptics in the room would prevent it from working.

Regards,


Steve


----------



## Rob Broad

> _Originally posted by Cthulhu _
> *Oh, sweet merciful crap.  The last video on that page has a 'no-touch' KO from about 10 feet away.
> 
> Can you smell the male bovine excrement?
> 
> Cthulhu *



The person used in that video is very easy to knock out.  He is a former student of mine.  You could tell what you were going to do and it would work because his mind told him it happen.   Mr. Stewart was the WKKA rep for Canada until a falling out a couple years ago and before that happened he ended up with most of my students a one of the schools that was under him at the time.  I unfortunately was affiliated with him until he got too greedy for my business to support so he used the power of an association and his pressure point study group idea to get most of my students into a school of his choosing.  What galls me the most is most of this crap happen during the month before my wdding and when I was off on my honeymoon.  

As to the comment that he touches wallets, Oh HELL YA!!!! He is very money oriented.  A directly from Mr. Donovan's mouth to my ear it was Blue Belt to 3rd Black.


----------



## kkbb

> _Originally posted by Rob Broad _
> *He is very money oriented.  A directly from Mr. Donovan's mouth to my ear it was Blue Belt to 3rd Black. *



I was wondering how true it was.  I wonder what his students would think if they knew?


----------



## Rob Broad

The man is very charismatic, and has the ability to make people drop their guard when he is around.


----------



## kkbb

How long were you affilliated with him?


----------



## arnisador

> _Originally posted by Rob Broad _
> *The man is very charismatic, and has the ability to make people drop their guard when he is around. *



Mr. Donovan, or Mr. Stewart?


----------



## Rob Broad

Actually both Steve Stewart and Mike Dononvan are charismatic.

I was with Steve Steve Stewart from Jan 2000 - July 2001.


----------



## kkbb

How high in rank did you get with Stewart?


----------



## Rob Broad

When my wife and I bought the school out I was a 4th degree.  Steve made me start at the bottom with him and work through every belt with his half belt system.  When him and I had it out I was ready to test for my 1st degree Black through him for rank in the WKKA.  Later I found out that my original rank was recognized by the WKKA and he was just making money off me.  

I also found out that all the money he was charging me for my student gradings was supposed to be going to my school not his pocket.


----------



## Jimmy&quot;TheBear&quot;

Rob Broad said:
			
		

> When my wife and I bought the school out I was a 4th degree.  Steve made me start at the bottom with him and work through every belt with his half belt system.  When him and I had it out I was ready to test for my 1st degree Black through him for rank in the WKKA.  Later I found out that my original rank was recognized by the WKKA and he was just making money off me.
> 
> I also found out that all the money he was charging me for my student gradings was supposed to be going to my school not his pocket.



I was just scanning here and ran into this thread.  What system is Stewart teaching?


----------



## Black Bear

I tried emailing him nicely. He gets very defensive very easily.


----------



## Aegis

Post the e-mail?


----------



## TonyM.

ROTFLMAO! Wouldn't want to be on that list.


----------



## Jimmy&quot;TheBear&quot;

I didn't see the videos on his site.  Looks like they removed them.  Must have been contraversial <sp> .  If they were real, you would think they would not be pulled down.   I'm sured there is a logical explanation for this. :asian:


----------



## Jimmy&quot;TheBear&quot;

Black Bear said:
			
		

> I tried emailing him nicely. He gets very defensive very easily.



Hmmm? Pull the videos off? Get defensive? You don't think someone is nervous about some one (other than his students) seeing the videos?  I'm sure there is a good explanation. :asian:


----------



## Black Bear

First email: 
> > > Hi there. I stopped by your site today for the
> > first
> > > time. The videos were... hmm... a little hard to swallow.
> > What
> > > system are you affiliated with, where to you
> > teach? In
> > > your own words, Mr. Stewart, who are you?
> > >*signed with real name, from email address tagged with real name* 

His reply: 
> > I'm your worst nightmare..............very brave
> > behind a
> > keyboard...............come visit me sometime and
> > the joke will be on
> > you.............Guarenteed!!!!!!
> >
> > STEVE

My second email: 
> Why the rudeness?
>
> I did ask you where you are located, as I have no
> idea. I would be open to visiting you or your studio,
> but you haven't told me where you are.
>

His reply: 
Look it up on my site.................you are the one who is f***ing 
rude
you mother f***er...............don't mess with someone that you know
nothing about..................they may just become your worst
nightmare!!!!!!!!!!!

The asterisks are my own, to protect your innocent eyes, my dear forumites. I guess he must have seen that movie, A Fish Called Wanda, John Cleese calls Kevin Kline "a true vulgarian" and he says to John Cleese, "YOU'RE the vulgarian, you F***!" That was one of the funniest scenes I've ever seen. 

Anyway, my "worst nightmare" was of grappling with a midget, who then bit my testicles and wouldn't let go. I don't think the great master Stewart would do that... 

Would he?


----------



## Cruentus

Dude....Are  you serious! I am LMAO right now....was that REALLY his reply!? 

 :lol:


----------



## hardheadjarhead

Black Bear said:
			
		

> His reply:
> Look it up on my site.................you are the one who is f***ing
> rude
> you mother f***er...............don't mess with someone that you know
> nothing about..................they may just become your worst
> nightmare!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> The asterisks are my own, to protect your innocent eyes, my dear forumites. I guess he must have seen that movie, A Fish Called Wanda, John Cleese calls Kevin Kline "a true vulgarian" and he says to John Cleese, "YOU'RE the vulgarian, you F***!" That was one of the funniest scenes I've ever seen.




I may write him myself and see his response.  That "no touch" knockout was just waaaaaaaaaay too much.  Did anyone download that?  If so, could you send it to me?  I'd love to have a copy of it.


Regards,

Steve


----------



## Black Bear

I did SEE the videos which is why I wrote, but didn't keep it. They were still there just last week. You may just have to poke around the site for a bit. 

Those are the emails, word for f***ing word. 

I mean, the guy seems nuts, but nuts enough to bite onto my testicles and hold on? *shudder* I'm scared.


----------



## Black Bear

Oh, here it is: 

http://www.combatpressurepoints.com/seminars.html

Click on the small pics on the left. 

Man, check out the pic of the guy on the main page and under "certification requirements"! You can just tell this is someone who wouldn't know how to dress himself if he didn't have a gi, and probably beats his wife.


----------



## Cruentus

heh...this guy definately seems like a moron.


----------



## Black Bear

It took me awhile of searching, but I found the spot where he shows where his school is located. It's in London, Ontario. I have a brother doing his PhD in Comp Sci at Waterloo, whom I'll probably visit in the summer. I wonder how much of a detour it would be...


----------



## Rich Parsons

Black Bear said:
			
		

> It took me awhile of searching, but I found the spot where he shows where his school is located. It's in London, Ontario. I have a brother doing his PhD in Comp Sci at Waterloo, whom I'll probably visit in the summer. I wonder how much of a detour it would be...


London Ontario is a nice Town/City.

I recommend you stop just to see it. If you do anything else that is your business, yet like I said it is a fun town and good people (* On the whole *)


----------



## Rob Broad

Black Bear said:
			
		

> It took me awhile of searching, but I found the spot where he shows where his school is located. It's in London, Ontario. I have a brother doing his PhD in Comp Sci at Waterloo, whom I'll probably visit in the summer. I wonder how much of a detour it would be...



Waterloo is about 1.5 hours north of London.  Steve Stewart won't see you if you show up.  He will insist that you book a private lesson with him at $150/hr to step out ont he floor to talk or what ever you want to do.


----------



## KenpoGirl

Black Bear said:
			
		

> Man, check out the pic of the guy on the main page and under "certification requirements"! You can just tell this is someone who wouldn't know how to dress himself if he didn't have a gi, and probably beats his wife.


That would be Mr. Stewart himself.


----------



## kkbb

The top video with the 20foot no touch knockout is fabulous! 
The attacker looks like he is doing the old "put'em up, put'em up" gag.


----------



## Rob Broad

kkbb said:
			
		

> The top video with the 20foot no touch knockout is fabulous!
> The attacker looks like he is doing the old "put'em up, put'em up" gag.



The gentleman in the mentioned knock out is overly suseptable to persuassion, his name is Brent Handsor.  He believes the knockouts work, and therefore is knocked out exactly as he was told it wopuld happen.  I have seen him drop by getting a light palm strike the jaw line by Mr. Dillman.  Dillman said later that using him in demonstrations would be an unfair example, and that the guy should avoid being used as a dummy for pressure point techniques.


----------



## Black Bear

I visited London in high school. All-expenses-paid trip, we won a trivia game show and went to compete in the nationals, where we got whipped. Western's campus is lovely, and I remember the Second City comedy club, but not much else. 

Western has a large psych department, which is the home of a strong clinical program and world-famous racist scholar Dr. J Philippe Rushton. http://www.ssc.uwo.ca/psychology/faculty/rushton.html 

And I ate a whole tub of really sucky chocolate ice cream when I was there. 

That's all I know.


----------



## hardheadjarhead

That twenty foot knockout is just too much.  I'm going to post that URL to the skeptic's newsgroups and send it off to James Randi.  Stewart stands to make a million bucks if he can do that and convince Randi its legit...he won't of course.


Regards,


Steve


----------



## Black Bear

Jarhead, have you been in contact with Master Stewart? Update?


----------



## Black Bear

Haha, I JUST saw the original set of videos (not the no-touch knockouts, the s-d ones). They could be used as sermon illustrations on anything from dissecting the corpse, to poor time-framing, to kempo-slapping. Hilarious. I love how the attackers stand there and jiggle while he runs around them, flailing!


----------



## OUMoose

> Anyway, my "worst nightmare" was of grappling with a midget, who then bit my testicles and wouldn't let go. I don't think the great master Stewart would do that...



Thank you for making me spit water all over my desk when I read that... LOL


----------



## hardheadjarhead

Black Bear said:
			
		

> Jarhead, have you been in contact with Master Stewart? Update?



Nope.  I might yet.

I have some other nefarious plans in the works however....muuuuwhahahahahaahahah!!!!



Regards,


Steve


----------



## Rich Parsons

hardheadjarhead said:
			
		

> Nope. I might yet.
> 
> I have some other nefarious plans in the works however....muuuuwhahahahahaahahah!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> 
> Steve


* Snort *

He said Nefarious   :rofl:


----------

