# A little help/advice starting out



## Skylarkin' (Aug 10, 2015)

Hi,

I've very recently had, for some unknown reason, an old interest in martial arts rekindled, and I was wondering if I could pick a few brains on here with regards, advice, info, and any general help surrounding finding an art to take up.

For a very short while I practiced Tae Kwan Do, however, I didn't really like it that much, aside from the great benefits it had in increasing flexibility.

I am interested in a few of the arts, but am unsure which would best suit me at the present time. I'm interested in improving; balance, co-ordination, flexibility, strength, and speed; while also gaining practical self-defense skills.

The disciplines I've narrowed an interest down to, that I think I would enjoy, are; Aikido, Bujinkan, Goju-Ryu, and Wing Chun. However, I can't find any Goju-Ryu classes in my area (Dublin).

I'm about 5'9 and 140lbs- although a few months of training would see me pop up to around 155 fairly easily. However, I am out of shape, underweight, suffering from tight muscles, and have shunned exercise for the last few years; although I am slowly beginning to work on the tight muscles, so that's a start.

I was wondering if anyone could steer me in the right direction, as I don't want to be shelling out some of my limited income in some snake oil salesman's school, and would like to genuinely dedicate some serious time and effort into honing a craft. So, if anyone knows of any good classes in Dublin, or has any firsthand information regarding training in any of the above disciplines that they could send my way it would be greatly appreciated; especially as I'm aware that this must be a very tedious question in these forums.

Peace and Harmony,

Skylarkin'


----------



## drop bear (Aug 10, 2015)

What does Dublin do well? So say for example you think of Thailand you think of must Thai.  If you wanted the strongest instruction you would go for the art that is regionally strong because that is how you find the best instruction.

Or do mma.


----------



## zzj (Aug 10, 2015)

I think it might be useful to let us know what you found unsuitable, or not to your liking in Tae Kwon Do.


----------



## Touch Of Death (Aug 10, 2015)

There is kenpo in Dublin.


----------



## Chris Parker (Aug 12, 2015)

Skylarkin' said:


> Hi,
> 
> I've very recently had, for some unknown reason, an old interest in martial arts rekindled, and I was wondering if I could pick a few brains on here with regards, advice, info, and any general help surrounding finding an art to take up.
> 
> ...



Look, there is no way for us to tell you what you'd like… especially when you are unsure yourself. The best (and, frankly, only) real advice that can be given is to attend the classes of each group that catches your eye, and make up your own mind.

I wish you all the best with it, but in the end, it's entirely up to you. If you have questions as to the particulars of the arts, or the schools themselves (with links so we know what we're dealing with), we might be able to give some clue, but that's about it. It's really up to you to decide which school (and instructor… both far more important than the system taught) you like the best.


----------



## sfs982000 (Aug 12, 2015)

Chris summed it up best, most reputable schools will allow you to train for a week or so for free I would highly encourage you to take advantage of that and go with what you feel is the best fit for you.


----------



## Skylarkin' (Aug 12, 2015)

zzj said:


> I think it might be useful to let us know what you found unsuitable, or not to your liking in Tae Kwon Do.



It was a good few years ago now, so aside from the generally unfavorable impression I retained, I would have to say that:


I saw very little outside of kicks being practiced by anyone.
Beyond the guys with much higher belts (blue, brown etc...) there was very little individual tutelage or insight imparted from our instructor.
We only did forms and cardio; this, to me, reduced it to a physical rote learning exercise.
further to my last point, I did it for 7 months, got 2 belts, and I don't know what I did to warrant that. Any improvements real or imagined never got tested.
I felt it was all very style over substance.
While these all constitute general impressions, I felt I learned very little of value during my time.

Peace and harmony,

Skylarkin'


----------



## Skylarkin' (Aug 12, 2015)

drop bear said:


> What does Dublin do well? So say for example you think of Thailand you think of must Thai.  If you wanted the strongest instruction you would go for the art that is regionally strong because that is how you find the best instruction.
> 
> Or do mma.



Thanks for the reply,

Dublin, like the rest of Ireland, is to my knowledge boxing, and more boxing. Which I'm not overly interested in I'm afraid.


----------



## Skylarkin' (Aug 12, 2015)

Chris Parker said:


> Look, there is no way for us to tell you what you'd like… especially when you are unsure yourself. The best (and, frankly, only) real advice that can be given is to attend the classes of each group that catches your eye, and make up your own mind.
> 
> I wish you all the best with it, but in the end, it's entirely up to you. If you have questions as to the particulars of the arts, or the schools themselves (with links so we know what we're dealing with), we might be able to give some clue, but that's about it. It's really up to you to decide which school (and instructor… both far more important than the system taught) you like the best.




Thanks Chris,

These are two of the classes that I've spotted that are within reasonable travel distance and would allow me to try them out before I decide to commit or not: 

Aikido Classes in Ireland - Aikido Ireland
Wing Tsun Kung-Fu Martial Arts Self Defence in Dublin City Centre
Essentially I'd like to learn an art that I can continually learn from, test myself, improve my core fitness, adapt and possibly cross-train with.

I'm also very interested in what others think can be learned from or what makes the arts I've mentioned worthwhile.

Peace and harmony,

Skylarkin'


----------



## Chris Parker (Aug 14, 2015)

Skylarkin' said:


> It was a good few years ago now, so aside from the generally unfavorable impression I retained, I would have to say that:
> 
> 
> I saw very little outside of kicks being practiced by anyone.
> ...




Hmm…

1: It was Tae-Kwon Do. It's a kick-centric art, known for it's kicks, who emphasise kicking. Hardly a surprise that, in your short time, that's what you saw emphasised. Now, if you're not into that, cool… but it's hardly a failing of TKD by being TKD.

2: That's an issue with that school, if it's the case.

3: Forms (hyung/poomsae) are the cornerstone of such systems… of course, rote instruction is the beginning method… it might be suggested that, only spending 7 months there, you simply didn't get to the point where you could go beyond that… or, it could have just been a bad school.

4: 7 months? Okay… 

5: Yeah, I'm getting the impression that it was the school… 



Skylarkin' said:


> While these all constitute general impressions, I felt I learned very little of value during my time.



Okay.



Skylarkin' said:


> Thanks for the reply,
> 
> Dublin, like the rest of Ireland, is to my knowledge boxing, and more boxing. Which I'm not overly interested in I'm afraid.



Well, that's patently incorrect… in a couple of quick searches, I found a number of Bujinkan dojo, Judo dojo, Karate dojo, Kung Fu kwoon, MMA schools, generic "martial arts" schools, and more.



Skylarkin' said:


> Thanks Chris,
> 
> These are two of the classes that I've spotted that are within reasonable travel distance and would allow me to try them out before I decide to commit or not:
> 
> ...





Okay, the Aikido page first… there's not much to go on. There's no mention of which branch of Aikido they're presenting… and little else other than rather generic information. Could be good, great, terrible, or anything in between… only way to know is to visit them.

The Wing Tsun site gives a bit more info… they're part of the Leung Ting lineage… I'll let the WC guys comment there… but, again, not much to go on with regards to the classes themselves. Go along and see what you think.



Skylarkin' said:


> Essentially I'd like to learn an art that I can continually learn from, test myself, improve my core fitness, adapt and possibly cross-train with.



The cross-training largely comes down to the instructor… but as for the rest… sure. Haven't really ruled much out (although I will say that, for fitness, competitive systems are best… BJJ.. Judo…)



Skylarkin' said:


> I'm also very interested in what others think can be learned from or what makes the arts I've mentioned worthwhile.
> 
> Peace and harmony,
> 
> Skylarkin'


 
Well, the biggest thing to realise is that you've picked two systems that are almost exactly opposite to each other… an aggressive striking oriented Chinese system and an evasive, grappling oriented Japanese system… You can learn a lot from both, or from either… but it's again going to come mainly down to the school itself (and the instructor). Look, all martial arts will have similar lessons… but the expressions will be different. They're all attempts to come up with answers to similar questions, after all…


----------



## Tez3 (Aug 14, 2015)

To be honest there's only one place to train in Dublin, here SBG Ireland 
Hand on heart it's a brilliant place with great people.


----------



## Skylarkin' (Aug 17, 2015)

Hi all,

After sending a few feelers out, I have been directed towards two different schools than the ones I had found:

An Aikido Dojo, with an apparently excellent director: Aikido Rathmines

And a Southern Dragon Style kung fu Kwoon, which again is supposed to have an excellent sifu: Kung Fu - Chinese Boxing - Dublin

My intention would be to cross-train these two on alternating weeks, although I don't plan on starting the kung fu until after about six months or so into the Aikido, would this be achievable? Or would the two simply get in the way?

Peace and Harmony,

Skylarkin'


----------



## Skylarkin' (Aug 17, 2015)

Chris Parker said:


> Well, that's patently incorrect… in a couple of quick searches, I found a number of Bujinkan dojo, Judo dojo, Karate dojo, Kung Fu kwoon, MMA schools, generic "martial arts" schools, and more.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



While Ireland is a small country, boxing- at the very least- is well publicised- and like the rest of Ireland very Dublin-centric, this is not to say that there aren't good MA Dojo's in the country, just that they are difficult to find if you don;t know what you're looking for; whereas boxing by and large is taught to a high standard everywhere (our most successful Olympic sport) and is easier to find good tutelage for, particularly in Dublin.

Interesting point; I suppose my worry would be that as a novice I might get wires crossed between the different expressions.

Peace and Harmony,

Skylarkin'


----------



## Tez3 (Aug 17, 2015)

Skylarkin' said:


> Interesting point; I suppose my worry would be that as a novice I might get wires crossed between the different expressions.




Aptly named video from John Kavanagh


----------



## lklawson (Aug 17, 2015)

Skylarkin' said:


> It was a good few years ago now, so aside from the generally unfavorable impression I retained, I would have to say that:
> 
> 1. I saw very little outside of kicks being practiced by anyone.


It's Tae Kwon Do.  They're known for their kicking.  Proud of it, in fact.



> 2. Beyond the guys with much higher belts (blue, brown etc...) there was very little individual tutelage or insight imparted from our instructor.


That's what happens for the first few belts.  To be blunt, newbies really aren't typically "prepped" to be able to get deep insight.  Learn the basics first, then you will have a basis of understanding for insight.  You can't learn Algebra before you learn basic Arithmetic.  




> 3. We only did forms and cardio; this, to me, reduced it to a physical rote learning exercise.


That's part of the way that Tae Kwon Do teaches their Arithmetic.  Again "physical rote learning" is how the human brain learns physical skills.  Do the action.  Repeat the action.  Lather-rinse-repeat.


> 4. further to my last point, I did it for 7 months, got 2 belts, and I don't know what I did to warrant that. Any improvements real or imagined never got tested.


It's not entirely unheard of for an instructor to gauge students progress by simply watching them in class, particularly for early progress.  An experienced instructor can often watch the student perform in class and decide if he has the requisite skills without having to perform a formal "test."  Some students like being tested some students like when an instructor hands him a belt and says, "I've been watching you.  Here's your Yellow Belt."


> I felt it was all very style over substance.


Many people feel that way about "Traditional Martial Arts" (TMA).  Maybe it was and maybe it wasn't but, without trying to be a jerk, I'm not sure you have enough experience in Martial Arts to know the difference.  Maybe it was both style and substance?  If you're gonna learn a Martial Art from some other culture, you're going to have to accept that culture's methods of teaching it including some elements of language and social ritual as well as what their preferred "method" is.  Maybe part of the method is begging the instructor and bringing him gifts (some Silat is supposed to be like this).  Maybe it's learning piddling little stuff for the first year to see if you're "serious" about the art.  Maybe it's taking a beating every class for the first year to show you have the sack to learn what they teach.  There's a thousand different things which may not actually be "style over substance."


> While these all constitute general impressions, I felt I learned very little of value during my time.


Probably not.  But we can't tell if that's because you didn't learn anything or if the school couldn't teach.  <shrug>

You might be happier with a RBSD ("Reality Based Self Defense") art.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


----------



## pgsmith (Aug 17, 2015)

Had an old Japanese instructor tell me a number of years back, that the hardest part of learning *any* martial art is going to the dojo regularly. So, the advice I always give anyone interested in martial arts is to go and visit every dojo in a your area. See what the training is like, try it if possible. Then, pick the one that you really felt was for you, because that's the one that will keep you going back to the dojo for the years required to really learn an art.

  In the end, there are a great number of different martial arts that are all capable of giving you the things that you want out of a martial art. But you have to keep up with it consistently over a long period of time, and that truly is the hard part and where the vast majority of people who start martial arts fail.

  Good luck , and let everyone know where you land!


----------



## Brian King (Aug 17, 2015)

Hey,
First congratulations on wanting to get back into martial arts - good luck on your search and your martial path.

Garry is a friend of mine and I can recommend his training without any reservations. A good man and good skills.
Russian Martial Art Ireland - Home

Regards
Brian King


----------

