# 3 open hand forms



## KCO (Sep 22, 2009)

just a survey---
how long had you been training before you advanced to the next form?  how many forms have you learned to date?


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## Nabakatsu (Sep 22, 2009)

Been training about a year, I've been taught Siu Nim Tao, I should begin learning Chum Kiu in like 2-4 months roughly.


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## sesvet (Sep 22, 2009)

Was taught Chum Kiu after the first year.


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## Domino (Sep 24, 2009)

Nabakatsu said:


> Been training about a year, I've been taught Siu Nim Tao, I should begin learning Chum Kiu in like 2-4 months roughly.


 
Similar, only been doing SLT but soon to progress, no rush 
Obviously curious so check bits and pieces out from books.


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## Nabakatsu (Sep 24, 2009)

I've joined in as they did chum kiu, trying to do it too, but.. without instruction.. it's pretttty damn difficult. Still, I can't wait to do it. It looks really beautiful, I've been practicing my stance turning so that when I do learn that isn't as big of an issue as it could be. changing it up a bit to keep it interesting, throwing uppercuts, hooks, and arrow punches, and sometimes just feet. good stuff!


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## Tensei85 (Sep 25, 2009)

We laid it out as 1 year Siu Nim Tau 
1-2 year(s) for Chum Kiu
1-2 year(s) for Biu Ji
Muk Yan Jong was taught at Chum Kiu level - Biu Ji level.
Luk Dim Poon Guan - 1-2 years depending on training commitment.
Baat Jaam Dao - 2 years +

So if you trained consistently it would be 5-6 years for completion.
(But like they say good Kung Fu takes time) so as stated I wouldn't rush it, take as much time needed to develop good Wing Chun body mechanics & skills.


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## naneek (Sep 27, 2009)

two and half years still on slt but i only train once a week, i amin no rush


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## Tensei85 (Sep 27, 2009)

I'm curious not to hijack the thread but at what point do you guys start training devices such as:

Lat Sau Jik Jung
Lian Wan Kuen
Toi Ma
Jip Sau - Jou Sau
Ng Seung Da for Chi Sau (5 double strikes) like... Biu Da, Tan Da, Lap Sau, Pai Jeung etc...

Generally for the way I used to train we would use:

Lian Wan Kuen for SNT drilling & later chi sau adaptation... (but really any technique trained in Wing Chun can be added in Chi Sau for a "free expression")

Lat Sau Jik Jung was trained in Dan Chi Sau
Toi Ma in Chi Sau for "moving horse"
Jip Sau - Jou Sau for the Luk Sau platform.
Ng Seung Da or just Seung Da (more than 5 double strikes) were added also in the Luk Sau rolling platform before Toi Ma.

Thanks for your opinion, just wondering. Hopefully you all understand the translations as It's harder for me to use non-character, non-Cantonese English translations.


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## Nabakatsu (Sep 27, 2009)

I wish I could help ya out there tensei, but I am completely lost


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## geezer (Sep 27, 2009)

Tensei85 said:


> I'm curious not to hijack the thread but at what point do you guys start training devices such as:
> 
> Lat Sau Jik Jung
> Lian Wan Kuen
> ...


 
I'm lost too. And seeing the characters wouldn't help, since I don't speak, or read Cantonese.

We call our chain punching_ "Lin Wan Kuen"_ so that's taught right from the beginning.

Re _"Toi ma"..._ We begin moving, turning and stepping in chi sau at an intermediate student level, as soon as a student masters basic poon-say or rolling, and and is ready to learn our first "chi-sau section". In this training, most attacks are accompanied by stepping forward. The defender dissolves the attack and turns or rides the force backward.

We don't commonly use the term _"jip-sau", pronounced "jeep" _(you don't mean _jut sau_?) although I can't be sure whether I've heard it used in passing long ago by my old sifu, who was Chinese. At any rate it's not one of the common terms we use.

Finally, the _"five double punches"_ sound like what we call _"five thunder punches"_ and these are introduced at a moderately advanced level in our chi-sau sections and in the Biu Tze form.

I wish I could me more precise, but I'm not currently associated with any school or organization, and train privately under other gwai-lo who are skilled in technique, but not in Cantonese!


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## Tensei85 (Sep 27, 2009)

geezer said:


> I'm lost too. And seeing the characters wouldn't help, since I don't speak, or read Cantonese.
> 
> We call our chain punching_ "Lin Wan Kuen"_ so that's taught right from the beginning.
> 
> ...


 
Lol, thanks. That's all it takes are skill's anyways who cares about language. :ultracool

Actually Jip Sau - Jou Sau were catching & running hands often used in Chi Sau practice. Jip - not the same as Jut. 

Jip Sau - &#25509;&#25163; Receiving hand
Jut Sau- &#31378;&#25163; hard for me to translate this 1 into English, maybe like cutting while jamming but not the same as - &#25599;&#25163;Gum Sau or &#27785;&#25163; Jaam Sau. 

Well you didn't want the Chinese but you got it anyways, lol. Just kidding!

Thanks a lot,


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## Tensei85 (Sep 27, 2009)

:duh: You know I just got the thought maybe I should go to a Martial Arts Forum in Chinese instead of posting Chinese on an English speaking Martial Arts Forum, lol why didn't I think of that before...


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## BFL (Sep 27, 2009)

The entire system was designed to be learned in an abreviated time frame as compared to other systems.  In one of the systems I was learning in the early 90's, it went about 6 months per form including weapons and dummy. This would end up being a little over 3 years to 3.5 years to learn the system and then allow another 1-2 years for tutelage under Sifu to finish tweaking skill sets and tweaking your teaching skills.  I have seen schools however that stretched it out for years and years and years and IMO that's just milking the student for money instead of passing on the system,


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## TinTin_57 (Oct 22, 2009)

I've been training around 1 year now, still on SLT. Also in the classes we tend to go over the basics again and again and seem to not learn anything new. Is this the same everywhere? I have trained several times with Grandmaster Kwok and he has shown me chi sau, but I haven't done it in my regular class yet.


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## Poor Uke (Oct 23, 2009)

TinTin_57 said:


> I've been training around 1 year now, still on SLT. Also in the classes we tend to go over the basics again and again and seem to not learn anything new. Is this the same everywhere? I have trained several times with Grandmaster Kwok and he has shown me chi sau, but I haven't done it in my regular class yet.


 
As WC has few techiques (which is one of its strengths IMO) you will probably still be drilling the basics in 10 years time 

I'm of the opinion (not universally held I know) that you should get beginners rolling as soon as possible. Further they should be rolling with more experienced partners. To often you see more experienced players avoiding noobs.


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## Chuanfa (Oct 23, 2009)

I learned all three forms the first year.  Of course, I was taking private lessons and training on average of 3-6 hours per day for about five days per week.


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## bully (Nov 5, 2009)

Started 2nd form tonight. Really, really enjoyed it.

Been doing WC for about 9 months on and off....but.... I did it solidly for 4 years in the 90's doing all 3 empty hand forms. So whilst it might seem i am being taught quickly I have a bit of history.

I am still rubbish compared to the guys who train me though.

Would like to start on 3rd form and dummy next year, May/June time. We will see.


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## Nabakatsu (Nov 6, 2009)

I've trained for about a year, I think I'll be learning chum kiu within 2-3 months


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