# Xingyiquan



## Xue Sheng (Mar 27, 2008)

Xingyiquan - Pi Quan (Splitting Fist) - I believe this is Hebei Style

Song Xingyiquan 

Xingyiquan Info


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## ggg214 (Mar 27, 2008)

thanks for your post!
i have learnt a lot!


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## pstarr (Mar 28, 2008)

Very interesting!  Thanks, Xue!


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## Xue Sheng (Mar 31, 2008)

Xingyiquan - Master Zhou jingxuan - 1 

Xingyiquan - Master Zhou jingxuan - 2


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## Steel Tiger (Mar 31, 2008)

Interesting.  I have not seen a lot of application of xingyi forms.  That was good.

By the way, did you check out Zhou's Bajiquan xingpi quan videos as well?  Xingpi looks like it derives from xingyi's pi quan.


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## Xue Sheng (Apr 1, 2008)

Steel Tiger said:


> Interesting. I have not seen a lot of application of xingyi forms. That was good.
> 
> By the way, did you check out Zhou's Bajiquan xingpi quan videos as well? Xingpi looks like it derives from xingyi's pi quan.


 
I did watch that and I am rather intrigued by Baji but 

I do not know enough about Bajiquan history to say yes or no for certain but I do not believe Baji comes from Xingyiquan. 

Form mind boxing, 5 elements, splitting fist >>> Xingyiquan, &#24418;&#24847;&#25331;Wu Xing, &#20116;&#34892; Piquan is splitting Fist Pi being &#21128; and quan &#25331;

But Xing here may or may not mean the same as Xing of Xingyi


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## Xue Sheng (Apr 1, 2008)

Xing Yi 5 Elements and Linking form


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## kidswarrior (Apr 2, 2008)

Xue Sheng said:


> I did watch that and I am rather intrigued by Baji but
> 
> I do not know enough about Bajiquan history to say yes or no for certain but I do not believe Baji comes from Xingyiquan.
> 
> ...


Good to know. But just to warn ya, one of these days I'm going to have to start correcting your Turkish. 

OH, and I still gotta view the vids. Late to the party and all.


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## Xue Sheng (Apr 2, 2008)

kidswarrior said:


> Good to know. But just to warn ya, one of these days I'm going to have to start correcting your Turkish.
> 
> OH, and I still gotta view the vids. Late to the party and all.


 
&#22909;


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## kidswarrior (Apr 2, 2008)

Xue Sheng said:


> &#22909;


Same to you.


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## Xue Sheng (Apr 2, 2008)

kidswarrior said:


> Same to you.


 
All I said was "hao" which means OK or good. 

I assure you it was not meant to offend and I meant to add the OK in front of it (OK &#22909 like I did in the previous translation but I apparently forgot that

Things are a bit crazy here today and I was not as careful as I should have been

My apologies :asian:


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## kidswarrior (Apr 2, 2008)

Xue Sheng said:


> All I said was "hao" which means OK or good.
> 
> I assure you it was not meant to offend and I meant to add the OK in front of it (OK &#22909 like I did in the previous translation but I apparently forgot that
> 
> ...


Dude, I was kidding.  Nice of you to care, but no worries.


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## Xue Sheng (Apr 2, 2008)

kidswarrior said:


> Dude, I was kidding.  Nice of you to care, but no worries.


 
Good, I would hate to think that some poor innocent oak tree was going to get a beating because of this...instead I will beat on a maple... they deserve it anyway


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## Xue Sheng (Apr 2, 2008)

Xing Yi Application: animal forms--teaching footage


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## kidswarrior (Apr 2, 2008)

Xue Sheng said:


> Xingyiquan - Master Zhou jingxuan - 1
> 
> Xingyiquan - Master Zhou jingxuan - 2


While the opening set of links was interesting, the application in these two was _really _eye-opening. Good stuff.


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## kidswarrior (Apr 2, 2008)

Xue Sheng said:


> Xing Yi Application: animal forms--teaching footage


In the solo forms from the first links, the art looks smooth and... well, I wondered what I was seeing (would it really work?). In this teaching footage, I now see what I missed: he's a _body fighter_, using his whole body to move or strike the opponent. _This is what I learned CMA to be. _

A few glaring examples: About 3:20, he turns what I'd call a hanging or wing 'block' into a driving arm bar by stepping (taking his whole body) through the opponent's space. At 4:45, I learned that shoulder bump in another CMA. Since your momentum is meeting his, it's very effective (and we found it can be intensified by grabbing the arms he throws out to keep his balance and pulling him around you--and down). At 5:15, similar to what I learned as the 'double down' block--lots of power because of body movement/weight.

And then there were about ten times that many things I learned for the first time by watching the rest of the vid. Great find! Thanks.


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## Xue Sheng (Apr 3, 2008)

kidswarrior said:


> In the solo forms from the first links, the art looks smooth and... well, I wondered what I was seeing (would it really work?). In this teaching footage, I now see what I missed: he's a _body fighter_, using his whole body to move or strike the opponent. _This is what I learned CMA to be. _
> 
> A few glaring examples: About 3:20, he turns what I'd call a hanging or wing 'block' into a driving arm bar by stepping (taking his whole body) through the opponent's space. At 4:45, I learned that shoulder bump in another CMA. Since your momentum is meeting his, it's very effective (and we found it can be intensified by grabbing the arms he throws out to keep his balance and pulling him around you--and down). At 5:15, similar to what I learned as the 'double down' block--lots of power because of body movement/weight.
> 
> And then there were about ten times that many things I learned for the first time by watching the rest of the vid. Great find! Thanks.


 
One thing to remember (which you have pointed out already with "he's a body fighter) about most CMA, particularly those styles lumped into the "Internal" category, the body is a fist. Basically if you miss with a palm strike it becomes an elbow miss with the elbow it becomes a shoulder strike kind of thing. And Xingyiquan is very much into hitting with as much of your body as possible. In the palm strike in Piquan the idea is to focus all your available body weight and power into that palm strike. The force comes downward and forward and I am told at higher levels it has an upward force as the last part of the strike as well. 

Xingyiquan looks rather simplistic and boring to many and there really does not appear to be much to it when you look at plain forms. But it takes a lot of time to gain the alignment necessary to produce the power that Xingyi is famous for. Simply put, Xingyi hits like a truck and it isn't magic it is training. 

And I want to add your posts here are helping me make a rather hard CMA training decision, thanks


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## JadecloudAlchemist (Apr 3, 2008)

Zhou Jingxuan has some great flexibility and goes really low in that posture!!


 In the linking form you can see the intent and focus displayed and the power generated to me this real smooth Hsing yi.

Great videos.


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## kidswarrior (Apr 3, 2008)

Xue Sheng said:


> One thing to remember (which you have pointed out already with "he's a body fighter) about most CMA, particularly those styles lumped into the "Internal" category, *the body is a fist*. Basically if you miss with a palm strike it becomes an elbow miss with the elbow it becomes a shoulder strike kind of thing. And Xingyiquan is very much into hitting with as much of your body as possible. In the palm strike in Piquan the idea is to focus all your available body weight and power into that palm strike. The force comes downward and forward and I am told at higher levels it has an upward force as the last part of the strike as well.


Well, now it's my turn to steal from you.  I've heard this many times, but never taken it _in _until now. 




> Xingyiquan looks rather simplistic and boring to many and there really does not appear to be much to it when you look at plain forms. But it takes a lot of time to gain the alignment necessary to produce the power that Xingyi is famous for. Simply put, *Xingyi hits like a truck and it isn't magic it is training. *


Perfect. I'm stealing that, too. 




> nd I want to add your posts here are helping me make a rather hard CMA training decision, thanks


I'm humbled. :asian:


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## Xue Sheng (Apr 3, 2008)

kidswarrior said:


> Well, now it's my turn to steal from you.  I've heard this many times, but never taken it in until now.
> 
> Perfect. I'm stealing that, too.


 
STEAL :xtrmshock That's it :tantrum: one more step and this tree gets it







:rpo: :uhyeah:

Actually I stole the body is a fist from one of my sifus so go for it


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## Steel Tiger (Apr 3, 2008)

kidswarrior said:


> A few glaring examples: About 3:20, he turns what I'd call a hanging or wing 'block' into a driving arm bar by stepping (taking his whole body) through the opponent's space. At 4:45, I learned that shoulder bump in another CMA. Since your momentum is meeting his, it's very effective (and we found it can be intensified by grabbing the arms he throws out to keep his balance and pulling him around you--and down). At 5:15, similar to what I learned as the 'double down' block--lots of power because of body movement/weight.


 


Xue Sheng said:


> One thing to remember (which you have pointed out already with "he's a body fighter) about most CMA, particularly those styles lumped into the "Internal" category, the body is a fist. Basically if you miss with a palm strike it becomes an elbow miss with the elbow it becomes a shoulder strike kind of thing. And Xingyiquan is very much into hitting with as much of your body as possible. In the palm strike in Piquan the idea is to focus all your available body weight and power into that palm strike. The force comes downward and forward and I am told at higher levels it has an upward force as the last part of the strike as well.
> 
> Xingyiquan looks rather simplistic and boring to many and there really does not appear to be much to it when you look at plain forms. But it takes a lot of time to gain the alignment necessary to produce the power that Xingyi is famous for. Simply put, Xingyi hits like a truck and it isn't magic it is training.
> 
> And I want to add your posts here are helping me make a rather hard CMA training decision, thanks


 
With the concept of the body being as a fist there is more than just moving into an opponent's space.  What you really needs to consider is moving completely through that space, almost as though he was not there.  As far as internal CMAs xingyi is the most obvious at expressing this as it tends to move directly into and through an opponent.  The longstep, half step combination foot work of xingyi really emphasises this concept and lends momentum and power to it.  Bagua tends to move through an opponent in an oblique fashion, and taiji seems to draw an opponent out of his space.


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## Xue Sheng (Apr 3, 2008)

kidswarrior said:


> In the solo forms from the first links, the art looks smooth and... well, I wondered what I was seeing (would it really work?). In this teaching footage, I now see what I missed: he's a _body fighter_, using his whole body to move or strike the opponent. _This is what I learned CMA to be. _
> 
> A few glaring examples: About 3:20, he turns what I'd call a hanging or wing 'block' into a driving arm bar by stepping (taking his whole body) through the opponent's space. At 4:45, I learned that shoulder bump in another CMA. Since your momentum is meeting his, it's very effective (and we found it can be intensified by grabbing the arms he throws out to keep his balance and pulling him around you--and down). At 5:15, similar to what I learned as the 'double down' block--lots of power because of body movement/weight.
> 
> And then there were about ten times that many things I learned for the first time by watching the rest of the vid. Great find! Thanks.


 
The shoulder bump is called kou in taiji and is one of the 13 postures.

You will see similarities in many CMA styles.

I have seen some applications in these videos as well that I did not know from my short time in Xingyiquan and I have learned form them as well and one thing I learned is how much I really like and miss training xingyiquan.



Steel Tiger said:


> With the concept of the body being as a fist there is more than just moving into an opponent's space. What you really needs to consider is moving completely through that space, almost as though he was not there. As far as internal CMAs xingyi is the most obvious at expressing this as it tends to move directly into and through an opponent. The longstep, half step combination foot work of xingyi really emphasises this concept and lends momentum and power to it. Bagua tends to move through an opponent in an oblique fashion, and taiji seems to draw an opponent out of his space.



agreed but I would say all 3 styles, taiji, xingyi and bagua are capable of all 3 it is just what they specialize in. But I am making an assumption about bagua since I have little experience with it.


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## kidswarrior (Apr 3, 2008)

Xue Sheng said:


> The shoulder bump is called kou in taiji and is one of the 13 postures.


So I, too, can claim to be yet another of the myriad taiji 'instructors' and start selling my services? Maybe put an ad in a glossy magzine... 



> You will see similarities in many CMA styles.


I'm beginning to see that. I guess Youtube ain't such a bad thing after all. The three 'specialties' of each internal art mentioned by Steel Tiger are _all _present in Jimmy Woo's kung fu san soo, although my instructor went to great lengths to distance it from anything even vaguely internal.



> I have seen some applications in these videos as well that I did not know from my short time in Xingyiquan and I have learned form them as well and one thing I learned is how much *I really like and miss training xingyiquan*.


Then I surely hope you get to train it again soon, my friend.


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## Steel Tiger (Apr 3, 2008)

Xue Sheng said:


> I have seen some applications in these videos as well that I did not know from my short time in Xingyiquan and I have learned form them as well and one thing I learned is how much I really like and miss training xingyiquan.


 
This, I posit, might be the dilemma to which you referred earlier.  you seem to have a genuine connection to xingyi and I suspect you will find yourself there again at some point in the future.





Xue Sheng said:


> agreed but I would say all 3 styles, taiji, xingyi and bagua are capable of all 3 it is just what they specialize in. But I am making an assumption about bagua since I have little experience with it.


 
I think you are right.  The three concepts are important to all internal arts, and some others too, I guess.





kidswarrior said:


> So I, too, can claim to be yet another of the myriad taiji 'instructors' and start selling my services? Maybe put an ad in a glossy magzine...


 
A big glossy add!  You have to be good to have one of those.  But you also have to have a cool ethereal sounding name like Eagle Cloud Mountain Taiji.





kidswarrior said:


> I'm beginning to see that. I guess Youtube ain't such a bad thing after all. The three 'specialties' of each internal art mentioned by Steel Tiger are _all _present in Jimmy Woo's kung fu san soo, although my instructor went to great lengths to distance it from anything even vaguely internal.
> 
> Then I surely hope you get to train it again soon, my friend.


 
Well, the internal arts do have something of a bad reputation outside China.  But it is interesting to hear that San Soo has these sorts of things in it.  I know it is an eclectic style but I really don't know it that well.  It is not that well represented down here in Australia.


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## kidswarrior (Apr 4, 2008)

Steel Tiger said:


> A big glossy add!  You have to be good to have one of those.  But you also have to have a cool ethereal sounding name like Eagle Cloud Mountain Taiji.


Perfect! In keeping with the spirit of my new enterprise, I'll start by stealing your idea!  :lfao:




> Well, the internal arts do have something of a bad reputation outside China.  But it is interesting to hear that San Soo has these sorts of things in it.  I know it is an eclectic style but I really don't know it that well.  It is not that well represented down here in Australia.


The problem was, Jimmy wasn't the world-stage businessman that some of those early guys were in the late 50s-early 60s, when some arts spread all over the US, then abroad. This was probably intensified by his trouble with the language (English). So, KFSS never really took off in a huge (national) way outside of his personal orbit here in Southern California. He was a good businessman, but I think a better martial artist and teacher than self-promoter. But it's great for those of us who live here and have gotten to train San Soo. This is my perception, anyway. QUI-GON would know better than I.


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## Xue Sheng (Apr 4, 2008)

Steel Tiger said:


> This, I posit, might be the dilemma to which you referred earlier. you seem to have a genuine connection to xingyi and I suspect you will find yourself there again at some point in the future.


 
mmmmmm could be 



Steel Tiger said:


> A big glossy add! You have to be good to have one of those. But you also have to have a cool ethereal sounding name like Eagle Cloud Mountain Taiji.


 


kidswarrior said:


> Perfect! In keeping with the spirit of my new enterprise, I'll start by stealing your idea! :lfao:


 
You GOT to throw in the word "Dragon" somewhere for it to be REALLY succesful in the US like "Eagle Cloud Mountain Dragon Taiji" or Dragon Mist Mountain Eagle Taiji or something like that.


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## kidswarrior (Apr 4, 2008)

Xue Sheng said:


> You GOT to throw in the word "Dragon" somewhere for it to be REALLY succesful in the US like "Eagle Cloud Mountain Dragon Taiji" or *Dragon Mist Mountain Eagle Taiji* or something like that.


But what if it's so fancy I can't even remember the name of my own school, and keep changing it every time I say it? Does it matter? Oh, probably not, given some of the *teachers* I've run across. :uhyeah:


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## Xue Sheng (Apr 4, 2008)

OK back to my obsession

Xingyiquan


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## kidswarrior (Apr 5, 2008)

Xue Sheng said:


> OK back to my obsession
> 
> Xingyiquan


Now this one, I can see application after application. Makes me want to take it frame by frame over a period of time (_Five Years, One Kata_, sound familiar? :wink, to see what emerges. Do we know if this is a particularly well-known form, or if it's something constructed on the local level? Cos if it's a staple, well, I have books... 

Oh, I know, ya can't learn without a sifu.  But if I've already learned much of this in a different format in another CMA, maybe I've already got/had the sifu...


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## Xue Sheng (Apr 5, 2008)

kidswarrior said:


> Now this one, I can see application after application. Makes me want to take it frame by frame over a period of time (_Five Years, One Kata_, sound familiar? :wink, to see what emerges. Do we know if this is a particularly well-known form, or if it's something constructed on the local level? Cos if it's a staple, well, I have books...
> 
> Oh, I know, ya can't learn without a sifu.  But if I've already learned much of this in a different format in another CMA, maybe I've already got/had the sifu...


 
I believe it is 5 elements cascade form, possibly Hebei style. I have had 2 different sifus for Hebei Xingyiquan and although they are similar they are not exactly the same and neither looks exactly like this. If I am right, and it is the cascade form, this is taught in two parts... kinda. 

First you learn 5 elements individually piquan (splitting fist - metal), zuanquan (drill fist - water), bengquan (smashing/crushing fist - wood), paoquan (cannon/pounding fist - fire), hengquan (crossing fist - earth). After you learn those you put them together in the 5 element cascade form.

There are also 12 Animal forms in Hebei, in Shanxi I beleive it is 10 but you learn this in the same manner. All seperatly and then later put them together.

And then there are a whole lot of weapons forms, one of which I just found out about (single handed jain) 

There are 3 main styles of Xingyiquan Shanxi, Henan and Hebei. There are also multiple off shoots of these and variations of each. Xingyiquan is, if you go for its legendary origin, very old (about 1000 years) so it has had time to change. If you go by the first historic documentation it is about 300 years old so again it has had time for multiple variations.

A big, Big BIG part of training Xingyiquan is Santi Shi standing practice. My last Sifu's Sifu told him that you need to be able to stand in this for 20 minutes per side to be considered a beginner.

More info here


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## kidswarrior (Apr 5, 2008)

Interesting. I have/have read these: _Li Tianji's The Skill of Xingyiquan_ (trans. Andrea Falk), and _Xingyiquan _by Liang, Shou-Yu & Dr. Yang, Jwing-Ming (with their _Twelve-Animal_ video). Have never attempted any of the movements, but they're fun as background and also inspire me to see my training in new ways.

Thanks for the info.


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## Xue Sheng (Apr 5, 2008)

kidswarrior said:


> _Li Tianji's The Skill of Xingyiquan_ (trans. Andrea Falk), and _Xingyiquan _


 
That's my next Xingyiquan book I plan to buy.

Also Andrea Falk is a student of Di Guoyong and the translator of his book as well


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## Jin Gang (Apr 5, 2008)

kidswarrior said:


> Now this one, I can see application after application. Makes me want to take it frame by frame over a period of time (_Five Years, One Kata_, sound familiar? :wink, to see what emerges. Do we know if this is a particularly well-known form, or if it's something constructed on the local level? Cos if it's a staple, well, I have books...
> 
> Oh, I know, ya can't learn without a sifu.  But if I've already learned much of this in a different format in another CMA, maybe I've already got/had the sifu...


 
This is the form which is common to pretty much all Xingyi styles I've seen.  I've always called it/seen it called "five element linkage form" or just "linkage form".  

the form is about 1:27 into the video, after all five elements




 
this one doesn't get to anything till about 1:00 min in
http://video.google.com/videoplay?d...l=8&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=2

Hung Yi Hsiang of Taiwan walks through the form around 1:30 in this video





 
There's only a little bit of the linkage form here, and his style is a bit different than most others, but I like his power generation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8yCwikaU4s&feature=related

This is definately a form that you can find in books and videos, it's the first and primary form of almost all xingyi schools, I think  

Just look online for "xingyi linkage form" or "xingyi five element linkage", you'll find tons of variations.

Watching different versions of the form and different expressions of xingyi have certainly informed how I practice for myself.  Of course, xingyi is not a primary focus of mine, there was only a little of it in my school, so I've never spent a lot of time on it.  I only know the five elements and linkage form.


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## kidswarrior (Apr 5, 2008)

Jin Gang said:


> This is the form which is common to pretty much all Xingyi styles I've seen.  I've always called it/seen it called "five element linkage form" or just "linkage form".
> 
> the form is about 1:27 into the video, after all five elements
> 
> ...


Thanks, I'll go through the vids carefully when I'm more awake.


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## Xue Sheng (Apr 6, 2008)

Jin Gang said:


> This is the form which is common to pretty much all Xingyi styles I've seen. I've always called it/seen it called "five element linkage form" or just "linkage form".
> 
> the form is about 1:27 into the video, after all five elements
> 
> ...


 
Cool

Feng Zheng-bao is great I have seen this video before, I forgot about it, thanks for posting it.

Feng Zheng-bao is Shanxi style Xingyiquan and Shanxi has a circle walking form taught to advanced students that is similar to bagua, it is at the end of this video.

Generally the first things you do traditionally in Xingyiquan are Wuji, Zhan Zhuang and Santi but the first forms you learn now are the 5 elements after that you learn the linking forms


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## Xue Sheng (Apr 7, 2008)

Luo De Xiu's XingYi  - Xingyi Rooster form

Old clips of Xingyiquan - I think these old clips are so cool

Old clip Hsing-i Animals

Shanxi Xingyi (1of2) 

Shanxi Xingyi (2of2)


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## Xue Sheng (Jun 22, 2008)

Sifu An Jian Qiu - Xingyiquan


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## bowser666 (Jun 23, 2008)

Thanks for posting this.  Great stuff!!


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## Steel Tiger (Jun 23, 2008)

That's some good stuff.  An sifu's hand speed is frightening and his fajin is something to see.


I checked out his Chen bagua too and that is very impressive as well.


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## Xue Sheng (Jun 23, 2008)

Steel Tiger said:


> That's some good stuff. An sifu's hand speed is frightening and his fajin is something to see.
> 
> 
> I checked out his Chen bagua too and that is very impressive as well.


 

I just watched his Baji and posted in my old Bajiquan thread.


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## Xue Sheng (Jan 29, 2009)

Xingyi Two-Men Set Form


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## CrushingFist (Mar 2, 2009)

wow thanks for this


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## Xue Sheng (Mar 14, 2009)

Ahhh now back to my obsession 

Xingyi Wuxingquan 5 Element Wang Yanji 

Xingyi 5 Elements Linking form Wang Yanji

Five Elements Xingyi Staff

Xingyiquan dao form

Xingyiquan jian form

Another Xingyiquan jian form


Zhang Junfeng teaching Xingyi in Taiwan


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## CrushingFist (Mar 19, 2009)

so I feel like I should train in Xingyi first, then progress onto Bagua then Taiji ..


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## Xue Sheng (Mar 19, 2009)

CrushingFist said:


> so I feel like I should train in Xingyi first, then progress onto Bagua then Taiji ..


 
Nah.

There is an old Chinese saying that says you should start with Xingyiquan then learn Baguazhang and then advance to Taiji but it is not really that big a deal. If I look at it that way I got it exactly backwards. I did Taiji first then Bagua and then Xingyiquan. And to be honest I am not exactly sure where the Xingyi to Bagua to Taiji thing came from, I will need to look into that more. However I would not be surprised if it did not come from Sun Lutang. 

And there are a lot of people out there that train one and never train anything else some train 2 and some train 3. There were several Xingyi guys that trained Bagua in the past but not all. 

But I do not look at these 3 styles as related as many think beyond the title of Neijia and what it means to be a neijia actually, they are, IMO, quite different. I no longer train any Bagua and I have more time in Taiji than any CMA but Xingyiquan is my favorite of the 3 and if there was a Xingyiquan Sifu of the same level of skill and understanding as my Taijiquan Sifu I would likely be only Xingyiquan.


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## JadeDragon3 (Mar 19, 2009)

Xue Sheng said:


> Xingyiquan - Pi Quan (Splitting Fist) - I believe this is Hebei Style
> 
> Song Xingyiquan
> 
> Xingyiquan Info


 
xie' xie'


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## blindsage (Mar 19, 2009)

Xue Sheng said:


> But I do not look at these 3 styles as related as many think beyond the title of Neijia and what it means to be a neijia actually, they are, IMO, quite different. I no longer train any Bagua and I have more time in Taiji than any CMA but Xingyiquan is my favorite of the 3 and if there was a Xingyiquan Sifu of the same level of skill and understanding as my Taijiquan Sifu I would likely be only Xingyiquan.


 
Yeah, I agree.  From what I've seen I don't think the three are related.  My sifu claims they are connected only because a group of teachers in those styles came together sometime in the 1800's and decided to be open with teaching between the styles, so I could train with your Taiji teacher and you could train with my Bagua teacher, and even encouraged it, which was not the norm at the time.

I'm actually really into Bagua and enjoy my training, but I would also like to learn Xingyi, which my sifu knows, but says he isn't a fan of teaching.  I'm gonna keep bringing it up when appropriate so he can see my genuine interest, and when I've trained with him a while longer I'll ask more directly if he'll teach me.


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## Xue Sheng (Mar 19, 2009)

blindsage said:


> Yeah, I agree. From what I've seen I don't think the three are related. My sifu claims they are connected only because a *group of teachers in those styles came together sometime in the 1800's and decided to be open with teaching between the styles*, so I could train with your Taiji teacher and you could train with my Bagua teacher, and even encouraged it, which was not the norm at the time.
> 
> I'm actually really into Bagua and enjoy my training, but I would also like to learn Xingyi, which my sifu knows, but says he isn't a fan of teaching. I'm gonna keep bringing it up when appropriate so he can see my genuine interest, and when I've trained with him a while longer I'll ask more directly if he'll teach me.


 
That is true and I have that someplace (names and dates) but I would need to look it up but as to the 1800s I am not sure if it was the 1800s (that sounds right) or the early 1900s

I liked Bagua, what little I did of it, and I have in the past seriously considered returning but I have been in Taiji to long to stop now and I like Xingyiquan to much to give it up so I have no time.


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## blindsage (Mar 19, 2009)

My sifu has an extensive background in Bagua, Xingyi, and Yang and Chen Taiji (I'm thinking about starting the Chen Taiji class soon), and I'm interested in them all, so luckily I can go to one source.


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## CrushingFist (Mar 22, 2009)

Hey guys what lineage is Tom Bisio's Xingyiquan ?


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## JadecloudAlchemist (Mar 22, 2009)

Tom trained with Vincent Black who is the representive of Li Zi Ming Bagua which stems from the Liang style.
Mr.Black also taught Tom Xingyi but I am unsure where Mr.Black learned it. Mr.Black is a very knowledgeable person so I suspect Tom is as well.

It also looks like Mr.Bisio trained in Gao style Bagua as well.

Mr.Bisio Xingyi teachers are famous and very skilled.

So his linerage for Xingyi comes from a variety of places but all legit IMO.

http://tombisio.com/about.htm

You can read about him and also look at his teachers.


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## Xue Sheng (Mar 23, 2009)

blindsage said:


> Yeah, I agree. From what I've seen I don't think the three are related. My sifu claims they are connected only because a group of teachers in those styles came together sometime in the 1800's and decided to be open with teaching between the styles, so I could train with your Taiji teacher and you could train with my Bagua teacher, and even encouraged it, which was not the norm at the time.
> 
> I'm actually really into Bagua and enjoy my training, but I would also like to learn Xingyi, which my sifu knows, but says he isn't a fan of teaching. I'm gonna keep bringing it up when appropriate so he can see my genuine interest, and when I've trained with him a while longer I'll ask more directly if he'll teach me.


 
1894
Cheng Tinghua  Baguazhang
Li Cunyi  Xingyiquan
Liu Weixiang  Xingyiquan
Liu Dekuan  Taijiquan
Formed an alliance for mutual training if Bagua, Xingyi and Taiji

Source: Spring and Autumn of Chinese Martial Arts by  Kang Gewu


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## ebozzz (May 1, 2009)

Xue Sheng said:


> Xingyiquan looks rather simplistic and boring to many and there really does not appear to be much to it when you look at plain forms.



Xue,

It looks excitingly beautiful to me! I love the simplicity and efficiency that it displays.


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## Xue Sheng (May 1, 2009)

To me Xingyiquan is rather direct and it looks rather simplistic on the outside but it is really not as simplistic as it looks due to the emphasis on, and reasons for, training Santi Shi and various other standing postures.

I have thought on a few occasions that where some MA styles are concerned about attack and defense, blocking and striking Xingyi's philosophy, at least my take on it, is simply "I'm going to hit you.hard". 

But like all CMA styles it has some Qinna and Shuaijiao as well.


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## kidswarrior (May 1, 2009)

Xue Sheng said:


> To me Xingyiquan is rather direct and it looks rather simplistic on the outside but it is really not as simplistic as it looks due to the emphasis on, and reasons for, training Santi Shi and various other standing postures.


It seems to me that the simpler something is made to look by a master, the harder it is. 




> I have thought on a few occasions that where some MA styles are concerned about attack and defense, blocking and striking Xingyi's philosophy, at least my take on it, is simply "I'm going to hit you.hard".


 




> But like all





> CMA styles it has some Qinna and Shuaijiao as well.


Thanks for the reminder. I've been working on finding more of these strains in all forms/postures. Fun and challenging. :bangahead:


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## shaolinmonkmark (Sep 23, 2009)

so what do you all think about mike patterson?


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## Xue Sheng (Sep 25, 2009)

shaolinmonkmark said:


> so what do you all think about mike patterson?


 

This Mike Patterson

Actually I don't know anything about him other than he has a website, sorry.


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## kidswarrior (Sep 29, 2009)

shaolinmonkmark said:


> so what do you all think about mike patterson?


 Mike Patterson. Played DT for USC, now Nose Tackle for Philadelphia Eagles.  Go Mike!


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## Xue Sheng (Mar 15, 2010)

Xing Yi Rooster - Luo De Xiu


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