# Starting Over



## Rick Wade (May 5, 2004)

I can understand if you are starting a new Martial Arts system i.e. going from Kungfu to Kenpo you might be asked to go back to white belt.  If you are going from one Kenpo System to another should you go from Black belt to White belt?  Or should you be asked to learn the diffrences?  Any thoughts?


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## Ceicei (May 5, 2004)

From black to white?  How long of a time absence before starting over and how different is the system (ie. EPAK vs. Tracy's)?  Usually what will likely happen is the instructor may have you run through the curriculum to see how much you know/remember and it would be up to the instructor whether he thinks you should start again as white or wherever he felt what level you belonged.

It's been my observation that if you were at beginning/intermediate rank and the time absence is significant enough, starting over at white is not unusual.  However, if you've already earned a black belt and you are returning to the same martial art/style, then the instructor will generally help you refresh everything (not necessarily making you "wear" a white belt again) before you go on to the next black belt rank.

Just my 0.02 cents.

- Ceicei


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## Touch Of Death (May 5, 2004)

Rick Wade said:
			
		

> I can understand if you are starting a new Martial Arts system i.e. going from Kungfu to Kenpo you might be asked to go back to white belt.  If you are going from one Kenpo System to another should you go from Black belt to White belt?  Or should you be asked to learn the diffrences?  Any thoughts?


I would just where a white belt unless further instructed. It will show humility and that you are willing to empty your cup. For the other students sake I would hope a black belt wore his/her blackbelt. No need for suprises.
Sean (www.iemat.com)


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## Gary Crawford (May 5, 2004)

That just depends on the instructor.I earned my shodan rank in kenpo  back in 77.I started to train at at an american kenpo school last year and had to wear a white belt.I didn't think much of the instructor,so I quit after a month.I recently joined a Tetsu Shen Rryu Kempo school that is very conveinently located.I was ready to put on a white belt(since their system is a little different),but I was told to wear my black belt.I really appreciate the respect they have given me.It makes me want to be a better example for the other students.I train harder and am more dedicated than if I had to wear a white belt.


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## Ping898 (May 5, 2004)

I think it also depends how close the previous style is to your new style.  I just started in a different Kenpo variation from where I earned my black belt (maybe 30-40% different), but I am still wearing my black belt in these classes.  The reasons are kind of two fold, first my new instructor respects the work I did to earn my black belt (and my black belt was earned 2500 mi away so even though theschool name is embroidered on I am not avertising for a school someone around here could go to).  Second I find it makes it easier on the other students, especially the white and yellow belts, because they are learning something, having lost of problems, or doing it with no precision or flow and see me do it and having few to no problems, even through I am new to the school, and they get discouraged (I've had comments about it so not just tooting my own horn), I find the belt is just something easy to point to or to remind them that , hey, I've been doing this for a lot longer than they have, and even though some of the techniques or forms may be new, many things like the kicks, punching, sparring etc, cross many styles of martial arts with few changes.  
That said, I also attended just the white-orange class, for a little over two months when I started and am now splitting my training between the white-orange and purple-green classes.  So even though I have a black belt I am not necessarily training with their black belts.  I see it as I currently don't have the knowledge or current skills to rightfully join their brown-black classes.  Plus it had been a few years so always helpful to have some time to get back in shape  :uhyeah: , cause god knows I was always pushed physically and mentally more in my black belt classes than any other classes.  In the end I will end up testing for a 1st degree/dan in this system, at which point I won't wear my first black belt anymore, unless I find myself back at my first school.  (Besides wearing my black belt all the time saves me from most of their belt testing fees too cause I am not really changing belts :boing2:   )


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## parkerkarate (May 5, 2004)

When I first started teaching I had a student that went from one stly of Kenpo to American Kenpo. We asked him to start out as a white belt just like everyone else. I thought this was a good idea because for the most part he had to learn new things. So I believe you should start out as a white belt if you change styles.


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## RCastillo (May 5, 2004)

I let new peole who come in wear their rank, if they like. They earned it, and it does not bother me as they still have to learn the new material if they want to grow with us. I do not cross rank. :asian:


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## Rick Wade (May 5, 2004)

Background.

I started in American Kenpo in 91 earned my 1st degree in 99.  I have trained after that time in a Tracy school for 4 years never promoted during that time no big deal I am just in it to learn.  I moved back to Hawaii and couldn't find an American Kenpo School at first so I started with Okinawan Kenpo (allot different).  I let the instructor know my background and he said just wear your blackbelt (no problem either way white of black).  Then about six months later another blackbelt came into the dojo and he had a Shotokan background he knew a lot more about the system than I did yet the instructor had him wear a white belt.  In my eyes if anything it should be flipped.  However I feel funny now starting the wear a white belt.  Since then I have found an American Kenpo stylist and train with him also on his lanai (patio).  But I need suggestion as to what to do with my Okinawan Kenpo Instructor.  

Respectfully


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## Kembudo-Kai Kempoka (May 5, 2004)

Rick Wade said:
			
		

> Background.
> 
> I started in American Kenpo in 91 earned my 1st degree in 99. I have trained after that time in a Tracy school for 4 years never promoted during that time no big deal I am just in it to learn. I moved back to Hawaii and couldn't find an American Kenpo School at first so I started with Okinawan Kenpo (allot different). I let the instructor know my background and he said just wear your blackbelt (no problem either way white of black). Then about six months later another blackbelt came into the dojo and he had a Shotokan background he knew a lot more about the system than I did yet the instructor had him wear a white belt. In my eyes if anything it should be flipped. However I feel funny now starting the wear a white belt. Since then I have found an American Kenpo stylist and train with him also on his lanai (patio). But I need suggestion as to what to do with my Okinawan Kenpo Instructor.
> 
> Respectfully


Put your dillemma in your instructors lap.  It's his house; provide him with all the information he needs to make an educated decision, then ride with it.

FWIW.

D.


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## Rick Wade (May 5, 2004)

He said the reson he did this was because of my humility and the way I worked with the other students in self defense.  He didn't really give me a reason for the other student still wearing his white belt.  
It just feels weird.  

Respectfully


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## Kembudo-Kai Kempoka (May 5, 2004)

Rick Wade said:
			
		

> He said the reson he did this was because of my humility and the way I worked with the other students in self defense. He didn't really give me a reason for the other student still wearing his white belt.
> It just feels weird.
> 
> Respectfully


He has complimented your skill, and your spirit. One might ask: Who are we to question the rights of others to offer kudos, where they see kudos due? You're too bright and too experienced to run around being shy about it, but the spirit of humility is a sign of greatness that's really only ever appreciated by people who do toot their own horn...and you are slow to, if at all. Thank him for the compliment through your actions by continuing to be the "yourself" he found so amicable in the first place.  Perhaps there is a lesson in humility for the Shotokan BB to learn, and one of reflected self-worth for you?  

Just a thought.


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## Doc (May 6, 2004)

Rick Wade said:
			
		

> I can understand if you are starting a new Martial Arts system i.e. going from Kungfu to Kenpo you might be asked to go back to white belt.  If you are going from one Kenpo System to another should you go from Black belt to White belt?  Or should you be asked to learn the diffrences?  Any thoughts?


Whatever belt you wear, everybody serious about learning starts from the same place; the beginning.


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## rschoon (May 9, 2004)

In the schools I have been in, people have been given the opportunity to wear whatever rank that they have achieved in thier previous system.  That did not mean that they were that rank in Kenpo.  It was in respect for the work that they did to achieve that rank.  I carry on that tradition in my school as well.  I am a small school and can see possible issues with keeping up with who is what rank or whatever in a large school.  It could be a hassle.  For me it is respectful to allow them to wear what they earned.


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## Doc (May 10, 2004)

rschoon said:
			
		

> In the schools I have been in, people have been given the opportunity to wear whatever rank that they have achieved in thier previous system.  That did not mean that they were that rank in Kenpo.  It was in respect for the work that they did to achieve that rank.  I carry on that tradition in my school as well.  I am a small school and can see possible issues with keeping up with who is what rank or whatever in a large school.  It could be a hassle.  For me it is respectful to allow them to wear what they earned.


I have never asked anyone to give up a "belt" they have earned. However None of the MSU stident body or staff, or transfer students, are allowed to wear any rank markings on belts anyway. 

It is our policy to consider all numerical ranks (including my own) "honorary or emeritus," and to focus on knowledge and skill instead. To that end, the prized document is a teaching credential at various levels that is earned and issued exclusive of numerical rank documents, which are only indicative of having passed a particular level of study. 

Regardless of previous experience or rank, EVERYONE without exception, who wishes to learn what we have to offer will start from the absolute beginning. All of those who are accepted have expressed they are happy they did, and that includes ranks as high as 7th, and other first generation students of Ed Parker Sr. Some choose to wear a white belt, others do not. It doesn't change anything, nor enhance or lower ones status.

(I admit however that on occasion, by request, I will wear a marked belt for picture taking sessions at seminars and lectures.)

Works for me.


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