# Is it possible for a relatively new practitioner of MMA and Jiu Jitsu to beat a black belt in both Karate and Taekwondo?



## Black_Dragon (Dec 18, 2022)

I have a fight in a couple of years that I planned with a friend however I have only been doing martial arts for a few years myself. What do you think my chances are, and what tactics could I use to my advantage? (I also do Krav Maga however it shouldn't be used in competition).


----------



## drop bear (Dec 19, 2022)

If you spent a couple of years really training hard with a fight camp mentality. You will smoke most hobby black belts.


----------



## Holmejr (Dec 19, 2022)

I know untrained street fighters that can do that, including against practitioners of mma and bjj. I have been in numerous classes where a super athletic new student out spars a black belt of just average athleticism. It’s not always the style, but the person. A long long time ago, I was going to a local TKD class at a church up the way from me. I started going there because my escrima class instructor became ill and had to quit. Anyway, there weren’t any athletic black belts and I could pretty much do anything I wanted with them, including the instructor. I didn’t fault the style as much as the students. There just weren’t any decent sparring folk there. And funny, I did consider myself much of a sparrer(sp?) and still don’t. Would never catch me in a ring.


----------



## O'Malley (Dec 19, 2022)

Holmejr said:


> I know untrained street fighters that can do that, including against practitioners of mma and bjj. I have been in numerous classes where a super athletic new student out spars a black belt of just average athleticism. It’s not always the style, but the person. A long long time ago, I was going to a local TKD class at a church up the way from me. I started going there because my escrima class instructor became ill and had to quit. Anyway, there weren’t any athletic black belts and I could pretty much do anything I wanted with them, including the instructor. I didn’t fault the style as much as the students. There just weren’t any decent sparring folk there. And funny, I did consider myself much of a sparrer(sp?) and still don’t. Would never catch me in a ring.


Well, if the instructor claims he's gonna make you a fighter but doesn't prepare you athletically, it's on him, not you. Being better than most untrained people at what you do is the point of training, isn't it? The schools you mention should question their athletic conditioning.


----------



## Monkey Turned Wolf (Dec 19, 2022)

Black_Dragon said:


> I have a fight in a couple of years that I planned with a friend however I have only been doing martial arts for a few years myself. What do you think my chances are, and what tactics could I use to my advantage? (I also do Krav Maga however it shouldn't be used in competition).


If you've been training for a few years, you're likely at the same level of the average black belt in karate/TKD, as typically it takes about 2-3 years to get black belt in most of their sub-styles.


----------



## skribs (Dec 19, 2022)

Monkey Turned Wolf said:


> If you've been training for a few years, you're likely at the same level of the average black belt in karate/TKD, as typically it takes about 2-3 years to get black belt in most of their sub-styles.


If he's already got black belts in both, and continues to train, then OP would probably still be behind in terms of experience.


----------



## drop bear (Dec 19, 2022)

skribs said:


> If he's already got black belts in both, and continues to train, then OP would probably still be behind in terms of experience.



It depends on volume of training.

2 years is a very long time to set up a fight. OP could have 3 or 4 fights under his belt by that time.


----------



## skribs (Dec 19, 2022)

drop bear said:


> It depends on volume of training.
> 
> 2 years is a very long time to set up a fight. OP could have 3 or 4 fights under his belt by that time.


I just meant number of years training.  I avoided going in to more variables.  It's also possible if OP is doing 5x double-days per week he'll have more mat time than his friend who is doing 2x single-days.

If we assume 3 years for Karate black belt, then another year for TKD black belt (many TKD places will start you close to black belt if you have one in Karate or TSD), then his friend has 4 years experience, and will probably have 6 years experience by the time of the fight, compared to the friend's 2 years.

There's a lot of factors that can overcome that, including natural talent, study habits, quality of the schools, times per week, size, athleticism, etc.  But just in terms of experience, the opponent has a head start, and will probably continue to climb it.


----------



## drop bear (Dec 19, 2022)

skribs said:


> I just meant number of years training.  I avoided going in to more variables.  It's also possible if OP is doing 5x double-days per week he'll have more mat time than his friend who is doing 2x single-days.
> 
> If we assume 3 years for Karate black belt, then another year for TKD black belt (many TKD places will start you close to black belt if you have one in Karate or TSD), then his friend has 4 years experience, and will probably have 6 years experience by the time of the fight, compared to the friend's 2 years.
> 
> There's a lot of factors that can overcome that, including natural talent, study habits, quality of the schools, times per week, size, athleticism, etc.  But just in terms of experience, the opponent has a head start, and will probably continue to climb it.



OP could catch him in months.


----------



## Monkey Turned Wolf (Dec 19, 2022)

skribs said:


> I just meant number of years training.  I avoided going in to more variables.  It's also possible if OP is doing 5x double-days per week he'll have more mat time than his friend who is doing 2x single-days.
> 
> If we assume 3 years for Karate black belt, then another year for TKD black belt (many TKD places will start you close to black belt if you have one in Karate or TSD), then his friend has 4 years experience, and will probably have 6 years experience by the time of the fight, compared to the friend's 2 years.
> 
> There's a lot of factors that can overcome that, including natural talent, study habits, quality of the schools, times per week, size, athleticism, etc.  But just in terms of experience, the opponent has a head start, and will probably continue to climb it.


I think the issue is that we're making different assumptions. I'm assuming the other guy would require 3 years total to get karate black belt, so at the time of the fight he will have 5 years experience, though 6 years would be a safe assumption too. I'm also assuming that OP having "a few" years of experience means he's either at 3 years of his own MA experience (though could be either 2 or 4 and still be what most people consider a few). 
This means that OP could, at the time of the fight, have between 4 and 6 years of experience, while his friend likely has between 5 and 6 years. Even the largest difference there, 4 and 6, isn't _that much _of an advantage in a fight. With that close, all the other factors will likely be more important.

That said, even just focusing on years of training, we're making a ton of assumptions here. And unless his friend is an outlier, with enough dedication those years of difference could be entirely negated.


----------



## skribs (Dec 19, 2022)

Monkey Turned Wolf said:


> I'm also assuming that OP having "a few" years of experience means he's either at 3 years of his own MA experience (though could be either 2 or 4 and still be what most people consider a few).


I think he said he has a fight in a couple years, not that he has a couple years experience.

I did miss his krav experience, but he didn't say how long.


----------



## O'Malley (Dec 19, 2022)

What's the point in trying to predict the outcome? Train your best and show up.
Best case scenario: you win and are proud of your efforts.
Best case scenario, bis: you lose and learn.

Or is this a fight to see who gets to marry the princess? If so, a lot can happen in a couple of years.


----------



## Xue Sheng (Dec 20, 2022)

Black_Dragon said:


> I have a fight in a couple of years that I planned with a friend however I have only been doing martial arts for a few years myself. What do you think my chances are, and what tactics could I use to my advantage? (I also do Krav Maga however it shouldn't be used in competition).



Training, no training...there is always someone quicker, faster, stronger, more skilled or just plain luckier on any given day... so...maybe


----------



## Bill Mattocks (Dec 27, 2022)

On any Sunday...


----------



## Steve (Dec 27, 2022)

drop bear said:


> If you spent a couple of years really training hard with a fight camp mentality. You will smoke most hobby black belts.


This is it entirely.


----------



## hoshin1600 (Dec 27, 2022)

What's the rules to the fight? Is it MMA?
Is the karate guy strict karate/TKD?
If so take him down. If it's just stand up work your combinations and get used to going from out of range to inside his range.  Talk to your coach, make a game plan and stick to it.  Your coach will know better than we would.


----------

