# Sparring in TSD



## Makalakumu (Nov 27, 2003)

When I was a gup, I sparred regularly and acheived some success in tournament fighting.  I won two regional tournaments and was greatly impressed by the accolades and respect from my peers.  During that time, I also worked as a security guard where physical confrontations were a regular part of my job.  I can tell you without a doubt that my ability to deal with these physical confrontations was inversely proportional to my ability with sparring.  The more I sparred, the less I was able to handle a real aggressor.  

Why?  Instinct.  Sparring trains your instincts to do certain techniques that do not harm your opponent.  Plain and simple - otherwise the ranks of martial artists would be greatly diminished.  My decision, not to spar as much.  Once a month is my personal guideline.

I still teach sparring though.  I tell my students that it is fun.  It will teach them how to move quickly and to overcome any fear of striking.  It will teach them how to take a strike.  And, yes, my students look horrible when they spar - coming from a person who has won tournaments - and this is okay with me.  Hell, I don't have the skill I used to have.  But it IS a game.  To get good you need to practice.  I tell them that if they want to train for tournaments, fine, I will train you, but remember the more you train these techniques the more likely they will come out in a real confrontation.  

As far as sparring and randori goes, I believe there is a difference.  Sparring is a game played to score points.  Randori is a partially random situation created by the instructor in order to practice techniques in varying degrees of fight time.  In my honest opinion randori is more important to self defense then sparring, consequently, we do randori almost every class. 

In closing, I would like to state that sparring and randori are both important to training.  They are a substitute for real fighting though.  Saying this, I advise caution with sparring.  A good street fighter will nearly always take the sparring champ to the cleaners because of instinct.  Ask yourself, what techniques do you want in your instinctual repetoire?  I also think its good to remember there is more to a martial artist then the ability to fight.


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## karatekid1975 (Nov 30, 2003)

You sound like me. I don't spar much, but when I do, I think I'm pretty decent at it. But then again, I don't train for tournaments. I hate the TKD rules in sparring (don't yell at me, I do TKD   ). TSD, at least, has more "allowed" hand techniques .... that I miss at times.

My school also teaches grappling. I like the rules here better anything goes (chokes, joint locks, ect) till someone taps out. Just no strikes to the face for saftey reasons.

But I'd rather do the self defense stuff, like you. More realistic stuff. We do defenses against strikes, grabs, holds, and weapons.


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## Makalakumu (Nov 30, 2003)

I'm glad to hear some perspective on this issue from other TSD people.  The Grandmaster isn't really a fan of sparring, yet it is tolerated in our ranks because it brings people into the training, in my opinion.


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## RCastillo (Nov 30, 2003)

Dumb question here. I've emailed other TSD orgaizations to see how they differ from TKD, but I get no answers. How different is it in overall comparrison to TKD, especially to sparring since this is the main subject here.

Thanks:asian:


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## arnisador (Nov 30, 2003)

See also:
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10372


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## Makalakumu (Nov 30, 2003)

If we were going to do word association to describe the difference, I would say TSD is to TKD like Kenjutsu is to Kendo or Jujutsu is to Judo.  In my opinion TSD is more traditional then TKD because TKD is a sport.  There is are styles of TKD that resemble TSD and these usually have Moo Duk Kwan attatched to them somewhere.


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## RCastillo (Nov 30, 2003)

> _Originally posted by arnisador _
> *See also:
> http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10372 *



Thanks Arnisador! I almost feel like TDS is much like Kenpo in some ways. (May the GD forgive me)


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## Marginal (Nov 30, 2003)

> _Originally posted by upnorthkyosa _
> *If we were going to do word association to describe the difference, I would say TSD is to TKD like Kenjutsu is to Kendo or Jujutsu is to Judo.  In my opinion TSD is more traditional then TKD because TKD is a sport. *



Some TKD has a sporting focus. Not all of it.


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## karatekid1975 (Dec 2, 2003)

> _Originally posted by upnorthkyosa _
> * .... There are styles of TKD that resemble TSD and these usually have Moo Duk Kwan attatched to them somewhere. *



That might explain why my dojang teaches a more traditional style of TKD   We do TKD MDK.

But then again, it depends on the instructor also. My instructor has rankings in other arts (TKD being the main one) and he teaches a bit of each art. He "stole" what worked, as far as self defense goes, and mixed it in with TKD.

My GM was also one of the TSD guys that broke away when TKD was created. We still do Moo Duk Kwan forms, but we also do TKD forms. My school used to do the pyung forms till about 10 or 15 years ago (now the color belts just do the Taegeuks). But we still do Bassai, Nahainchi (1 thru 3), Sip soo, ect. So, in my opinion, after 1st dan in my school, I'd say it's TSD (or very similar, that is).


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## progressivetactics (Dec 2, 2003)

i agree upnorth....i was a pretty decent competitor in the day..but when bouncin became a part time job...i had to forget much of the techniques i used for attacking, and change style quite a bit.  Now.. Tournament sparring did help in many ways, endurance, timing, focus, control..etc.  You have to have these things regardless of your scenario.  The back fist and lead leg round kick that i won most of my fights with wouldn't do much for me in a bar.  

In actuality, most people, especially martial artists, don't get in fights in their adult lives.  So sparring isn't going to hurt them much, as long as they realize it is a game..and not self defense.
If you are training to fight, for money, mercenary, security, etc.  then sparring can help, but it should be well integrated with other things such as trapping range, and grappling...perhaps even the CDT type course from Tom Pattire. Just 1 of many.

bb


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## Distance (Jan 30, 2007)

I believe sparring (especially with pads) is a danger to yourself as I have found the limits of experiencing pain to recognize effectiveness is too dimished if not apparent at all.  Not that sparring doesn't have it's place such in a sport or point system.  
About 15 years ago when I was training with my master I never went to tournaments, the training was also more intense.  As time progressed, not only was the intensity of the class lowered but trophies began to appear.  This tells me that my master may have been pressured (monetarily) in order to keep membership up.  Hmm... it's just not the same.  
On a side note, it makes me contemplate the toughness of the guys 30 years ago and so on and so forth.

Might for Right!

Distance (AHK)


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## JT_the_Ninja (Jan 30, 2007)

My point of view is this: Tang Soo Do is a self-defense art; that being the case, sparring should never be altogether avoided, since in order to defend you have to be attacked. There are self-defense drills, but these are only practice. Putting them to work in a fight is what shows that you've learned them. I wish I sparred more, I guess, though I understand Distance's POV...I'm not too keen on getting hurt. In-class or test sparring, though, is always non-contact at my school, so that's not as much of a worry (non-contact means "try not to contact, though you probably will" ).


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## Distance (Jan 30, 2007)

Just a quick addition and good point made by JD Tang Soo Do is indeed only to be used in self defense.


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## Distance (Jan 30, 2007)

Sorry, I meant JT.


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