# Do chicks dig martial arts?



## Flea (Aug 8, 2009)

It came up elsewhere, so I thought it deserved a spinoff.  

On that thread, I said that my experience is a little different as a woman.  But people in general seem to dig it.  Other women are impressed because I'm doing something to protect myself.  They think they _can't_ do it, even though all I did was respond to an ad in the classifieds.  I tell them that and it usually makes no difference at all.

A lot of my friends and family are impressed simply because I'm doing something interesting.  The fact that it's not an _Asian_ MA seems to give it a higher cache as a stereotype buster.  :uhyeah:

In lesbian circles, chicks most definitely dig it.  Not only is strength sexy, but it also feeds directly into that feminist "empowerment" model.  Whoo baby!!  I think the confidence its' given me also comes through, and confidence is a turn-on in any romantic/sexual arena.  Especially when it's backed with the calm awareness of not _needing_ to prove anything.  Still working on that one ...

Anyone else?


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## Chris Parker (Aug 8, 2009)

I am in two minds as to whether or not to answer this properly...

In short, no. They may enjoy it, they may be interested in it, but (in the vein of the original thread post you took this concept from...), no. The perception is too far skewed for it to truly be "dug".

That said, there are values which are part of the benefits of martial art training which are "dug", so the idea is not completely invalid. But remember, I am taking this in the vein of it's source, and as such am only giving a very partial answer here, so read into it from that perspective.


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## Flea (Aug 8, 2009)

Thanks Chris.

And please understand that I'm not trying to be sexist by bringing up the question.  I just think it's worth exploring because it generated so much interest on the other thread.  

More to the point, as you said it's about the public _perception_ of MA.  While I don't have women throwing themselves at me (sigh) I do get a lot of the "show me some moves!" and the "can you kick my ***?"  I couldn't pass for badass in a million years, so that's pretty funny.  

I'm really interested in what others have to say on this, especially the relatively few women on MT.


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## JadecloudAlchemist (Aug 8, 2009)

I don't recall Cosmo mentioning Martial arts as a turn on.
(I sometimes read it when I have to wait in a doctor's office)
 From the magazines and online answers it comes down to tattoo,nice smile,has muscle,good personality,funny,smart,caring.

But I imagine it varies from girl to girl. But what do I know I am a guy.


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## Joab (Aug 8, 2009)

I had a friend who was into aikido. He told me there were a lot of women in aikido, and he met more than one girlfriend initially in an aikido dojo. I never took aikido, so I don't know if any of this is true.

When I was dating my wife she had no problem with my interest in martial arts and in fact wanted to learn some self defense. My first try didn't work very well, either she is slow or I'm a lousy teacher or a combination of the two.


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## Chris Parker (Aug 8, 2009)

Flea said:


> Thanks Chris.
> 
> And please understand that I'm not trying to be sexist by bringing up the question. I just think it's worth exploring because it generated so much interest on the other thread.
> 
> ...


 
Hey Flea, 

Yeah, that is what I meant by "they might be interested", rather than they might "dig" it. The context there was important. And by public perception, I was bringing into it the idea that this was non-martial artist women, which is the original context of women "digging" what we do.

The average non-martial artist has very little real understanding of what the realities are, in terms of the training and philosophies, as well as the personalities involved for those who train. To get an idea, people will go to any reference they have access to, and if there is no first hand experience, then they will go to second hand, and that is movies/tv etc. And in those sources, the martial artist is either overly good/competant, or the violent, often mysogenistic thug. Neither is truly positive or accurate, but it is where the perception will come from. As a result, the answers you will get from women here (who train) will be different than asking a non-training "woman on the street".

Oh, and I didn't think you were being sexist at all. Nor was anyone else who has commented similar. Simply relating personal experiences in a way that they related to... or percieved them.


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## rdonovan1 (Aug 8, 2009)

I personally think that women do dig the martial arts. I know of one girl that is my supervisor that is into self defense big time. She's orignally from Colorado and she is really cute, but given the fact that she studies the martial arts tends to make me wonder a little bit about her.

I wonder because I remember the scene in the movie the next Karate Kid staring Hillary Swank in which she and her friend are sitting in his car after just coming back from the prom. He knows that she has been studying Karate from Mr. Miyagi and as such he is just a little concerned that if he were to lean over and kiss her that she might turn around and kick his *** just for trying to kiss her.

It's at that scene in which she starts to recall what Mr. Miyagi told her about anger manangement and as such she starts to repeat the saying 'The sun is warm, the grass is green'.

The rest of the movie is pretty cool as well, especially the part where she kicks the bullies *** using the techniques that Mr. Miyagi taught her. 

I'm all for women learning the martial arts and while I can't speak for any of the other guys here, I personally would find it very humilitating if I could not defend myself and had to be protected by a girl in a fight.


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## Bill Mattocks (Aug 8, 2009)

Flea said:


> They think they _can't_ do it, even though all I did was respond to an ad in the classifieds.  I tell them that and it usually makes no difference at all.



One of the hardest things in the world is convincing someone that they can do something they have decided they cannot do.

I have heard it referred to as 'live choices' versus 'dead choices'.  In my former life in law enforcement, one of the eternal frustrations is when women are involved in abusive relationships and won't leave.  Even when options are there for them - shelters, money, etc.  They listen to the counseling and hear the words and nod their heads, and then they go and bail the bum who hit them out and the next weekend it starts again.  To them - for whatever deep complex psychological reason - leaving is just not an option.  It's a 'dead choice'.

I've spoken to many friends and relatives who are impressed that I did two tours in the Marines, or that I am taking karate at age 48, and they tell me "I could never do that."  Like you, I'm somewhat amazed.  When I joined the Marines, I was no prime physical specimen, far from it.  And when I started karate, I was way overweight and very much out of shape.  The only thing I did in both cases was not quit on myself.

Back to the topic - yeah, I think chicks dig martial artists.  Not the arts as much as the artists.  And not because of the kick-punch-block-throw aspect but because it is physical and it is violent (at times and depending on the MA).  The same reason chicks dig football players, bad boys, and guitarists, it's the alpha-male thing.  Very primitive mojo, but it still works.

Not to cast aspersions or be sexist, but just dealing with base genetics, to a woman raised in a traditional society where the man provides, defends, and protects, a male martial artist can very clearly defend and protect.

The demographics I've read on MMA show that men, particularly young men, are the most interested in MMA itself - something like 80% of MMA fans are male.  While everyone is different, in the aggregate, I suspect that female fans of watching mixed-martial arts are generally a lot like female fans of football - they like it because the guys like it.


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## Tez3 (Aug 8, 2009)

We have quite a lot of female fans of MMA here but when you explain to them that women also fight they are amazed and fairly shocked...at first then the little grey cells, as Poirot would say, start ticking over and I've had a couple of women join a friend of mines classes after we talked to them. I doubt they will fight but they are certainly interested in the fitness and confidence training brings. 
We had an army PTI, a lass, come and train with us while she was posted here, she loved the fighting aspect of it, Flea you would have got on with her like a house on fire, but perhaps military women view things a bit differently from 'civvies'?


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## jarrod (Aug 8, 2009)

in my experience, chicks think it is pretty cool at first.  if things progress to the relationship level though, they seem to get frustrated that i'm training so much.  it's kind of like they want you to have magic super badass protective powers, but without spending any time away from them.  

jf


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## Carol (Aug 8, 2009)

I've found a wide variety of reactions amongst other women I know.

My family for example...I thought my mom and sister would be weirded out by it, but they think its cool.   I try to visit Bill Parson's Kenpo school when I'm down there and my mom comes along.  Sometimes she stands on the sidelines and stretches out with us, other times she watches or reads.

With friends and neighbors the reaction is either "hey, that's cool" or "Oh yeah?  My (insert relative here) took (TKD, Kempo, Karate) for awhile" or "I've always wanted to try (insert art here)"


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## Omar B (Aug 8, 2009)

I've told this story many times but I'll give the shortened version.  One of my college girlfriends was all about me doing karate, told anyone who would listen that she was dating "a karate guy" as she put it.  Only thing is, when she realized after 2 months that I trained 3 nights a week and 4 hours first thing on Saturday she didn't like it.  Loves the part about me being able to kick *** and that I'm in good shape, hates that I have to spend so much time away.  Hate the cause, love the effect.

On the other hand, my sister's great at karate.  She's tall, thin, in great shape and dudes constantly hit on her but they are threatened by a girl who can take care of herself.  That leads to her having dated pretty good, decent, self condfident guys throughout college.  I rememebr once I picked her up at school and some guy was being pushy with her by the gates as she waited on me.  He grabbed at her butt, she pushed him back to create space and landed a spinnign back kick to his chest sending him into some hedges in front of all his boys.  Hilarious.


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## rdonovan1 (Aug 8, 2009)

Omar B said:


> I've told this story many times but I'll give the shortened version. One of my college girlfriends was all about me doing karate, told anyone who would listen that she was dating "a karate guy" as she put it. Only thing is, when she realized after 2 months that I trained 3 nights a week and 4 hours first thing on Saturday she didn't like it. Loves the part about me being able to kick *** and that I'm in good shape, hates that I have to spend so much time away. Hate the cause, love the effect.
> 
> On the other hand, my sister's great at karate. She's tall, thin, in great shape and dudes constantly hit on her but they are threatened by a girl who can take care of herself. That leads to her having dated pretty good, decent, self condfident guys throughout college. I rememebr once I picked her up at school and some guy was being pushy with her by the gates as she waited on me. He grabbed at her butt, she pushed him back to create space and landed a spinnign back kick to his chest sending him into some hedges in front of all his boys. Hilarious.


 

It sounds like the guy deserved what he got and I think that your sister did the right thing. I just wish that I could get my sister interested in the martial arts as I think that it would do her and her son's a world of good. One of them was a strong kicker when he was a baby and she mentioned the possibility of getting him into the martial arts and I sure hope that she does. If she doesn't get him into the martial arts then she should at least get him into something like football or soccer.


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## rdonovan1 (Aug 8, 2009)

Bill Mattocks said:


> One of the hardest things in the world is convincing someone that they can do something they have decided they cannot do.
> 
> I have heard it referred to as 'live choices' versus 'dead choices'. In my former life in law enforcement, one of the eternal frustrations is when women are involved in abusive relationships and won't leave. Even when options are there for them - shelters, money, etc. They listen to the counseling and hear the words and nod their heads, and then they go and bail the bum who hit them out and the next weekend it starts again. To them - for whatever deep complex psychological reason - leaving is just not an option. It's a 'dead choice'.
> 
> ...


 

I think convincing anyone to do anything that is positive and constructive is a very difficult thing indeed and that is why I am into things like behavior modification and sales and marketing. It's also why I am so keen on things like NLP as I am always trying to find new and improved ways of influencing and persuading people into doing things that are healthy and positive for them.

One of the things that I have learned from studying NLP is that most people tend to think very negatively and that is why I often tend to use negation on them as I know that the mind cannot process a negative.

That's why children often tend to do things that we tell them that they should not do like playing in the street or something like that. When you use negative tones like that with them it often tends to make them want to do what they are not supposed to do. The best way to get them to do somethng is to use positive reinforcement instead of negative reinforcement.


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## rdonovan1 (Aug 8, 2009)

JadecloudAlchemist said:


> I don't recall Cosmo mentioning Martial arts as a turn on.
> (I sometimes read it when I have to wait in a doctor's office)
> From the magazines and online answers it comes down to tattoo,nice smile,has muscle,good personality,funny,smart,caring.
> 
> But I imagine it varies from girl to girl. But what do I know I am a guy.


 
I wonder as to how important looks and money are to a girl. I've heard that they are not really all that important to a girl from guys in the game, but I am not quite sure about that as from what I have noticed many girls do seem to care about both looks and money. 

Perhaps one of the ladies here can help to answer that question for all of us that are confused by it.


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## Flea (Aug 8, 2009)

Hee hee ... we are veering off topic, but I'll bite.

Women are people too (not that you'd dispute that, but it's a point worth repeating.)  As such, we all have different tastes and priorities.  I don't respond much to looks beyond the initial impression.  Money is the same way.  Instead, I tend to err in the opposite direction and jump to the conclusion that if someone has money, and especially if they flash it around, they must be shallow.

I'm into the Voluntary Simplicity movement, and it was a rift with my last partner.  There was no animosity about it, but he only felt like he was doing right by me when he spent lots of money.  I kept telling him that I was perfectly happy with a simple cup of coffee or a concert at the park, but he couldn't get past that.  In turn I felt guilty because he really couldn't afford it.  On the other side I felt conflicted because this was _his_ language of love; shouldn't I just enjoy being appreciated?  We never did find a middle ground on that one.  He got married last month and I hope they see eye to eye on that.  Compulsive spending or no, he's a catch.  I wish them well.

Maybe it's the company I keep, but I don't know of any women who would accept or reject a man solely on looks or money.  Of course if I met any I'd keep right on moving.  I don't waste my time or energy on shallow people.



> I've heard that they are not really all that important to a girl from guys in the game, but I am not quite sure about that as from what I have noticed many girls do seem to care about both looks and money.



Rdonovan, maybe you're interested in the wrong women?


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## rdonovan1 (Aug 8, 2009)

Flea said:


> Hee hee ... we are veering off topic, but I'll bite.
> 
> Women are people too (not that you'd dispute that, but it's a point worth repeating.) As such, we all have different tastes and priorities. I don't respond much to looks beyond the initial impression. Money is the same way. Instead, I tend to err in the opposite direction and jump to the conclusion that if someone has money, and especially if they flash it around, they must be shallow.
> 
> ...


 

I'm glad that you helped to clear that up as I once read a book written by a psychologist named Warren Farrell called 'Why men are the way they are'. In his book he said that women tend to treat men like they are success objects and that men tend to treat women like they are sex objects. While there may be some truth to what he said I have always believed that personality is much more appealing to women and is more important that either looks or money because once the looks and money are gone all you really have left is things like personality and character and that is something that I think the martial arts is good for. 

While it may not help a person to develop their personality better it can certainly help a person to develop better character and better self confidence and self esteem as well as self discipline and that is why I brought up the subject in the first place.


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## rdonovan1 (Aug 8, 2009)

JadecloudAlchemist said:


> I don't recall Cosmo mentioning Martial arts as a turn on.
> (I sometimes read it when I have to wait in a doctor's office)
> From the magazines and online answers it comes down to tattoo,nice smile,has muscle,good personality,funny,smart,caring.
> 
> But I imagine it varies from girl to girl. But what do I know I am a guy.


 

Let's not forget to add in romance as women tend to love romance and while both genders tend to be interested in sex, women tend to be more interested in romance. The difference is in how both genders tend to get to that goal. 

Most men tend to look at a woman and think that she might look good and be good in bed, while most women tend to look at a man and wonder as to how romantic, tender and loving he actually is and whether he is the type of guy that will stand up and fight if necessary to protect both her and any children they may have together. 

It all basically comes down to that male/female polarity and that is something that is very similar to the concept of ying/yang and while I am not really sure about this, I think that is where the Chinese came up with the whole concept of ying/yang.

One thing that I do know for sure is that many of the Chinese martial arts can and did spring up from watching nature and as to how the animals interacted with one another and as to how they fought.

That is from what I understand how and where they came up with systems like Dragon, Tiger, Monkey, Snake, Crane, and even Praying Mantis Kung Fu and I personally think that is really, really cool as to how they did that. 

I also tend to like what Bruce Lee said in the movie 'Enter the Dragon' in the scene in which he is on the boat with the guy that is basically nothing but a trouble maker. 

I don't know if anyone will remember that scene, but that is the scene in which he is challenged on the boat and he is asked as to what his style is. He responds by saying that his style is the art of fighting without fighting.

His challenger is intrigued by that and asks him to show him some of it. At first he is reluctant to do so, but he finally relents and asks him if he see's the beach and his challenger responds by saying that he does. Bruce then goes on to tell him that they will need more room than what they have on the boat and he asks the guy to meet him on the beach. The guy agrees and then proceeds to get into the boat. Once the guy is in the boat, Bruce then turns around and let's the tension on the rope loose enough so that the the guy is in the boat all alone and trailing behind the Junk with water spilling over the sides. 

I personally thought that was very interesting as that is exactly the same type of tactics that Miyomoto Mushashi was famous for and from what I have heard he often deliberately either showed up late or early to a fight just to antagonize and piss off his opponent so that his opponent would be so riled up that he would not make the correct choices and as a result that always cost his opponent the battle and that is why Mushashi is considered one of the greatest swordsmen that ever lived. 

He like the Samurai knew the importance of maintaining emotional self control and composure and he knew that could either make or break the outcome of the fight and more often than not he was right about that. 

Sun Tzu was also really good at strategy as well and I guess that is why both his book and Miyamoto Mushashi's books are required reading at all of the United States military academies and from what I have heard the Japanese have take many of their concepts and applied them to the business world as well.


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## Tez3 (Aug 8, 2009)

rdonovan1 said:


> Let's not forget to add in romance as women tend to love romance and while both genders tend to be interested in sex, women tend to be more interested in romance. The difference is in how both genders tend to get to that goal.
> 
> Most men tend to look at a woman and think that she might look good and be good in bed, while most women tend to look at a man and wonder as to how romantic, tender and loving he actually is and whether he is the type of guy that will stand up and fight if necessary to protect both her and any children they may have together.
> 
> ...


 


The idea that women are more interested in romance than sex is so outdated as to be positively Victorian! Most of the women I know are more than capable of fighting for themselves andtheir children. they really aren't looking for a champion at all, a companion yes but you have to get over the idea that women are looking for someone to look after them. We, on the whole, aren't. In fact it's documented that single women live longer than married ones and married men live longer than single men, funny that.

You know what women want? I'll tell you...a man who can make them laugh, never, ever underestimate the ability to laugh a woman into bed.

I'm not being rude but I can't see the relevance of the rest of your post to the OP?


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## rdonovan1 (Aug 8, 2009)

Tez3 said:


> The idea that women are more interested in romance than sex is so outdated as to be positively Victorian! Most of the women I know are more than capable of fighting for themselves andtheir children. they really aren't looking for a champion at all, a companion yes but you have to get over the idea that women are looking for someone to look after them. We, on the whole, aren't. In fact it's documented that single women live longer than married ones and married men live longer than single men, funny that.
> 
> You know what women want? I'll tell you...a man who can make them laugh, never, ever underestimate the ability to laugh a woman into bed.
> 
> I'm not being rude but I can't see the relevance of the rest of your post to the OP?


 

I think that you are right about the humor thing as both men and women can and do tend to think and act very differently. Part of it relates to biology and evolution while part of it also tends to relate to culture as well and the way that we are raised.

What men may find funny can often be interpreted as being rude and even condensending to women and that is something that I am definitely not down with as I tend to believe that men and women are equals and that women should be treated with courtesy and respect just like you would when you are in the dojo.

I don't know about you, but I personally don't know of any instructors at any dojo that can and will put up with a lack of courtesy and respect and in all the dojo's that I have been in and from what I have studied of the martial arts treating any instructor or dojo with a lack of courtesy and respect is a quick way to get yourself booted out of the dojo and your training either temporarily or permanently suspended or even terminated. 

While I have never been to asia as of yet. It is something that I do tend to understand and appreciate as that is just how I was raised.


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## rdonovan1 (Aug 8, 2009)

Bill Mattocks said:


> One of the hardest things in the world is convincing someone that they can do something they have decided they cannot do.
> 
> I have heard it referred to as 'live choices' versus 'dead choices'. In my former life in law enforcement, one of the eternal frustrations is when women are involved in abusive relationships and won't leave. Even when options are there for them - shelters, money, etc. They listen to the counseling and hear the words and nod their heads, and then they go and bail the bum who hit them out and the next weekend it starts again. To them - for whatever deep complex psychological reason - leaving is just not an option. It's a 'dead choice'.
> 
> ...


 

I've heard that about women getting into bad relationships and who won't leave before and I tend to think that is why many of the pick up artists that I have studied from have developed tactics and techniques to help the woman realize that she is in a bad relationship and that it would be best for her to leave the relationship.

Some of the pickup artists that I have studied from have cited the importance of romance to women and they have even recommended a really good book called 'Dangerous men and Adventurous Women'. Basically it is a book written by a woman regarding the appeal of romance to women. 

One guy that I know of developed a set of patterns that are based upon NLP and hypnosis that basically circumnavigates a woman's cultural programming and that tends to help them get off of what they call autopilot and in many ways they are right about that as many of us tend to be on autopilot as we go through our daily lives.

When I first heard about some of these tactics and techniques that they use I started to wonder if I could actually pick up an ex-girlfriend that I knew was married and in the process of it all I started to wonder about the jealousy factor as well and that is what really got me into thinking about stuff like ninjutsu and it is why I bought Richard Van Donk's stuff.

While I admit that some of the techniques that these pick up artista tend to use can be sneaky and underhanded it really is nothing new as the ninja have been using sneaky and underhanded techniques for centuries.

I guess that you could say that they had to because at that time the Samurai were the only ones that were allowed to carry the deadliest weapon of the time and that was the Samurai sword.

I know that there are a lot of stories about how the ninja were assasins that basically snuck around at night killing people and while some of them probably did do that I believe that the vast majority of them just basically wanted to live in peace and harmony and to basically do whatever it took to achieve spiritual enlightenment and that is why some of them were often found hanging off of tree branches for hours at a time as that was an attempt on their part to not only build themselves up physically, but also mentally, emotionally and spiritually as well. 

I don't know about anyone else here, but when I was growing up in the 1980's the ninja was a big craze and it all seemed to be headed up and started by Stephen Hayes. 

During that period of time many movies were made about the ninja and all of the magazines like Black Belt were writing about it. It seemed like no matter where you turned the ninja was there waiting for you just like they did in ancient Japan. 

I don't know if it is true or not, but supposedly the Chinese had their own version of the ninja as well called the Lin Kuei. 

I also don't know if it is true or not, but I have heard that people who are into the martial arts and that tend to engage in sex on a regular basis tend to do even better when it comes to the martial arts and their form. All that I know is that is what I have heard.


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## girlbug2 (Aug 8, 2009)

This is one chick that definitely digs martial arts. When I met my dh he was an assistant teacher for a college SD course. Very sexy in his gi. I'm telling you, that whole thing about guys in uniform is so true! He tells me that the main reason he agreed to teach was because one afternoon he was in hi gi practicing in the gym and he couldn't help notice the looks that the young ladies were throwing his way. So he figured that assistant teaching a SD college class would put him in the path of a lot of young ladies. What can I say, it worked 

Now that I have taken up martial arts myself, I remember when I first started and my dh would brag to our friends about it. My grandmother, MIL and a few female friends of ours, came up to me at different times with this look in their eyes that I could only describe as a mixture of delight and envy when they asked me, "So I hear you've taken up karate now?"

None of them has ever taken up a martial art themselves, yet. But it was clear that they liked the idea.


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## rdonovan1 (Aug 8, 2009)

girlbug2 said:


> This is one chick that definitely digs martial arts. When I met my dh he was an assistant teacher for a college SD course. Very sexy in his gi. I'm telling you, that whole thing about guys in uniform is so true! He tells me that the main reason he agreed to teach was because one afternoon he was in hi gi practicing in the gym and he couldn't help notice the looks that the young ladies were throwing his way. So he figured that assistant teaching a SD college class would put him in the path of a lot of young ladies. What can I say, it worked
> 
> Now that I have taken up martial arts myself, I remember when I first started and my dh would brag to our friends about it. My grandmother, MIL and a few female friends of ours, came up to me at different times with this look in their eyes that I could only describe as a mixture of delight and envy when they asked me, "So I hear you've taken up karate now?"
> 
> None of them has ever taken up a martial art themselves, yet. But it was clear that they liked the idea.


 
How long have you been in the martial arts and what have you gotten out of it? I'm just really, really curious.


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## Tez3 (Aug 8, 2009)

rdonovan1 said:


> I* think that you are right about the humor thing as both men and women can and do tend to think and act very differently. Part of it relates to biology and evolution while part of it also tends to relate to culture as well and the way that we are raised.*
> 
> What men may find funny can often be interpreted as being rude and even condensending to women and that is something that I am definitely not down with as I tend to believe that men and women are equals and that women should be treated with courtesy and respect just like you would when you are in the dojo.
> 
> ...


 

No thats not what I meant at all I'm afraid! I simply meant a man who can make a woman laugh is very sexy. I think you are vastly over thinking,


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## Big Don (Aug 8, 2009)

IMHO, The fun ones do


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## teekin (Aug 9, 2009)

Something about well built men in Gi's. :fanboy: Sweaty limber alpha-types with strong hip flexors. Aye-yi-yie! I don't know about "chicks" but Women like MA-ists, for all the right reasons. Don't we Flea?:cheers:
lori


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## rdonovan1 (Aug 9, 2009)

I was looking at it all the perspective of the importance of having a positive attitude and in having confidence in yourself.

Understanding body language is also important as body language and as to how a person uses their words can either make or break a person and that is where NLP tends to come into play as it can help a martial artist to better determine as to whether someone is or will attack you physically or even verbally and as to how you respond to it will be a big factor as to whether or not you end up in a physical altercation or as to whether you will be friends.

No offense was meant at all to anyone. Just sharing what I have learned and as to how it applies to social interactions and conflict management.


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## rdonovan1 (Aug 9, 2009)

Wow, I was just reading through some of the other threads that have been posted on MT like the pick up line thread and it tends to make me wonder as to how women approach their safety and security as guys tend to approach the situation a little bit differently. 

Guys for the most part tend to be inclined to just want to fight. I was mentioning some of this stuff only in the context of things that I have either studied or personally experienced in the past and as to what I have observed. 

One thing that once came up occured shortly after I had moved to Albuquerque in which a friend of my mother and her boyfriend once tried to fight me while at work because he thought that I was trying to pick up his wife. Where she got that idea I don't know because before that the only real conversation that I had with her was when I was cleaning some CD's in my mother's bathroom sink.

For some reason she thought that was some sort of pick up attempt on my part, which it wasn't at all. Around the same time I was talking to my guy friend about some of what I had been studying relating to both the game and to the martial arts and somehow he misinterpreted and completely blew out of proportion what I was saying. I figured at the time that being a guy he would understand as to what I was saying because guys generally tend to understand as to where other guys are coming from just like women tend to understand where women are coming from.

After reading some of the pick up line thread it tends to make me wonder as to how many people really believe in pickup lines at all. I am just curious because from what I have found out on the street they just don't work at all and only the bravest of the brave can really get away with using them as most women tend to be very aware of the types of pickup lines that most men might try to use to pick them up and more often than not they usually have a boyfriend or a husband that just happens to be the jealous type that is interested only in beating you up.

It's because of that, that I tend to think about things like ninjutsu and many of the techniques that they developed. 

I however do not think strictly about that either as I have also been exposed to things like Goju Ryu and Aikido. 

I don't know what it is, but for some reason I have noticed that women tend to like guys like Steven Seagal for example and that is something that I have been trying to figure out for a long time and that is one of the reasons that I came here. As what I am trying to do is to develop myself to such an extent that I am being the best that I can be not only in life and the martial arts, but also in love. 

Because of my interest in both the martial arts and the game I have purchased books on subjects like human nature, psychology, gender differences, gender communication and other related topics in an attempt to help me to understand the overall gender dynamics that can and do effect every area of our live's. 

One area that it applies to and that is important is in the area of the law regarding things like sexual harrassment and other related topics that are heavily influenced by topics like this and in which strategy is very, very important as well as understanding as lawyers and the legal system tend to be a lot like the martial arts in that the participants can be very competitive and even catty with one another in a court and in which the stakes can be high just like a situation that you might find out on the street. 

I also tend to think that topics like this are also important to understand not only in the United States, but outside as well. 

I don't know if anyone can or will be able to understand this or not, but at one time I ended up in a number of romance scams that have cost me thousands of dollars and that is why I am trying to pay attention to both the martial arts and to the game as many of the scammers were women.


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## Chris Parker (Aug 9, 2009)

Rdonovan1. Dude, seriously, quit with the game talk. Wrong place, wrong crowd. I've PM'd you with this advice, please take it. Take the way the thread has gone, "Do women like Martial ARTS", as in the are they interested in the arts themselves. Keep to martial arts here, the rest can be discussed elsewhere. 

You've still got a way to go, my friend, let's try to make sure you make it that far, okay?


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## rdonovan1 (Aug 9, 2009)

This is not so much about the game as it is about the martial arts and both physical and verbal self defense and that is what I have been trying to get at. It's also about how people tend to think, talk and act on both sides of the fence and that does apply to self defense and the martial arts as it is taking the concepts of people like Sun Tzu, Miyamoto Mushashi, Dr. Milton Erickson, Dr. Richard Bandler and others.

I just thought that if people were to understand some of my background and as to what I have experienced then they might understand as to where I was coming from.

Some of the stuff that I encountered while out on the road as an over the road truck driver included one story that was told to me by another driver who had just come out of the Flying J in West Memphis, Arkansas after having cashed his T-check that he got from his company for things like tolls, lumpers, and other company related expenses and as he was getting back into his truck he was approached by someone who stuck a knife in his back and told him that it was either his money or his life. 

This is not the only instance that I know of either as just earlier this year in my apartment complex there was a woman who fatally stabbed a man in her apartment. According to the police and according to her she stabbed him because he was making sexual advances and innuendo's towards her.

According to the police and according to the news this woman had a history of mental illness that caused her to stab this man. That tends to make me wonder as to what is safe and what is not as I certainly don't want to end up in that type of situation with any woman for any reason.

The RVD series that I bought was partly because of an ex-girlfriend and the game, but also because of some time that I spent in Mexico in a place called Boystown which is in Nuevo Laredo, Mexico just across the border of Laredo, Texas.

When I first stated driving truck over the road my trainer and the trainers of several other drivers that I knew of that if we ever got the chance to get down to Laredo, Texas then we should go over the border to Boystown. Well, me and a friend of mine that I met while working for CRST did eventually get a chance to go as we were given a load that went down there. During the trip and because of a former co-driver that had been with the company for a long time and who told me of instances of fires starting in the International trucks that the company was using for no real real reason I started to get very concerned one day when as I was driving down the road the lights on the truck started to dim greatly for a few seconds without warning. 

Because of that I thought for sure that something was wrong with the truck and when we got down to Laredo I arranged to have the truck checked out by the maintenance department. Because the process took so long with the maintenance department me and my friend decided to take up the suggestions that were told to us by our trainers and we went across the border into Mexico and caught a cab into Boystown.

We were told by the cab driver that it is good that we did not try to walk the distance to Boystown as the Mexicans do not like Americans very well and if they had caught us walking down the street then they surely would have jumped us and possibly even killed us not only for our money, but also just for spite.

This along with previous experiences that I had with my first co-driver who was basically a big guy who thought he was tough got me to thinking about my personal safety. This first guy was basically an ******* as he thought that because his father was a truck driver he knew everything about the trucking industry and on several occasions he threatened to beat me up inside the truck just because I was new to truck driving at that time and that kind of scared me.

My friend who went with me to Boystown considered himself to be a major player and he was from the Portage/Gary, Indiana area. For those who don't know Gary, Indiana is a very, very rough place and it is in fact so rough that the police will not go in there at night because everyone is packing a gun and because many of the people there will not hesitate to use them either. Gary is considered by many to be the murder capital of the world and is in many ways very similar to places like Nuevo Laredo, Mexico; Compton, California; and Lagos, Nigeria. All of them are very, very rough places to be either during the daytime or the night time. 

Because of all that and because of my previous interest in ninjutsu I felt that it would be a good idea for me to invest in Richard Van Donk's Black Belt Home Study Course so that I could learn some of the actual techniques that they used and knew in a real self defense situation out on the street. 

This is not the only stuff that I have invested in either as I have also invested in things like Aikido, Goju Ryu Karate, and all of the stuff that Robert Bussey put out in the 1980's. In the video's that I watched from Robert Bussey he stated that it does not matter what your religious beliefs are as they are separate from the martial arts. 

Because of some of the stuff that has happened to me and because of the way that my family has treated me over the years I have had a very difficult time trying to get my father and my family to understand as to where I am coming from as they just don't really understand as to how the martial arts has influenced me or even as to what the martial arts is all about. They tend think that it is something that is evil and that should be abolished altogether. 

At one point during the 1980's when I was growing up my mother who did not understand the martial art or even me for that matter tried to take away the martial arts from me as she thought that it was way too violent and that it was causing me more harm than good. What she doesn't understand or realize is that the martial arts tends to be good at developing things like character and integrity and that his something that I tend to have considerable difficulty explaining to both my mother and to my father as well as to other people. While I can't prove it I tend to think that they watch too much tv and don't spend nearly enough time going out and finding out that in which they don't know. 

Because of some of my religious beliefs as well I have also tried to explain to some of the Pastors at a church as to where I am coming from as well partly because of what the senior pastor at the church tends to talk about in his sermons and partly because of what another pastor that I have kind of become friends with there told me who also was a former truck driver before. In many of the sermons that the senior pastor tends to give he often talks about gender differences and the whole dating, mating, and relating game and as to how that relates to what the Bible has to say.

At one point because of the truck driver pastor and because of what the senior pastor tended to talk about in his sermons I was told by the truck driver pastor to talk to another pastor at the church that is supposed to help people out that go to the church, but when went to talk to him and when I tried to explain things to him he immediately attacked me verbally and ever since then he has had nothing but a negative attitude towards me. 

He however is not the only person that has done that either as my mother's boyfriend also tends to think very negative of most people and I am not the only one that he has been that way with as he has also done that with my aunt as well and that is why I tend to promote the concept of positive thinking as positive thinking can and does apply to the martial arts.

I don't know about you, but I have never seen a Samurai or a ninja afraid of a fight.

Due to some of the stuff that has occured in not only my neighborhood, but also in the city of Albuquerque I have contacted the Guardian Angels and have tried to get them to come into the area as there tends to be a lot of crime going on right now and that combined with some of the things that have happened to me in the past has gotten me to think very strongly about my overall security and safety. 

One of the things that has happened to me occured in February of 2008 while I was home reading some legal documents one night. On that night I received a knock on my door from the Albuquerque Police Department. When I answered the door I was told by the officer that someone had smashed all the windows on my car and slashed all of the tires.

My car however was not the only car hit that night as at least one other car that I know of was hit as well, but not as severely as mine was. 

What I am attempting to do here is to find new and improved ways of protecting myself verbally, mentally, emotionally, and physically as well and that is why I came here to begin with as I am tired of being the victime and I believe that it is time for me to fight back by as much as I possibly can using any tactic and technique that I can.


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## Grenadier (Aug 9, 2009)

Ladies and gentlemen,

I'd like to remind y'all that Martialtalk.com is a community that promotes a *family-friendly environment.*  I'm sure that we can continue this topic without having to cross the PG-13 line.  

Some posts in this thread have crossed that line, and I would rather that everyone keep things family-friendly, instead of having to lock this topic, issue infractions, etc.  

Let's keep the discussion on-topic, and self-defense related.  

-Ronald Shin
-MT Supermoderator


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## Flea (Aug 9, 2009)

Grendel308 said:


> Something about well built men in Gi's. :fanboy: Sweaty limber alpha-types with strong hip flexors. Aye-yi-yie! I don't know about "chicks" but Women like MA-ists, for all the right reasons. Don't we Flea?:cheers:
> lori



Eh ... I'm more into the SNAGs myself.  (For you un-initiated, that means Sensitive New Age Guy.)  We had a new kid in class yesterday who just wouldn't put the pressure on, no matter how much I insisted on it for the sake of my learning curve.  "But I'm a pacifist! And if I injure you, you won't be able to practice for a couple months anyway."  His second argument had some validity, gawd love him, so I had to content myself with a best guess as to whether he was locking my arm or not.

In terms of attraction, the last thing I want is a protector and provider type.  They tend to have too much ego wrapped up in that role and it becomes a problem.  In a man, I insist on an equal, foibles and all.  Strong _women_, however, make my knees quiver.


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## girlbug2 (Aug 9, 2009)

rdonovan1 said:


> How long have you been in the martial arts and what have you gotten out of it? I'm just really, really curious.


 
I started studying EPAK nearly 4 years ago, then last April I switched to Krav Maga when my karate teacher retired. (I would  have loved to continue with EPAK but there wasn't anybody close by in my area to train with).

What I get out if it is, reality based self defense, physical fitness, and meeting other like minded people. Also, for the first time in my life I can get some skill at a physical thing (I'm a nerd), which I never had thought possible until I tried martial arts. Growing up a girl, my parents didn't think it was important to encourage me to try out any sports or to exercise, other than pushing me outside so I could "play". It's great to be athletic, in a way, for the first time in my life. 

Martial arts has given me a whole new outlook on many things in life. It has given me self-confidence and security. It has redefined my long term goals for myself and my family. It's also made watching MMA a lot more fun.

Oh yeah, I definitely dig the martial arts!


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## Kacey (Aug 9, 2009)

Like anything else, it's a personal choice.  I've been in TKD for 22 years, and it's long since gone past the point of "hobby" and into "lifestyle". Most of my female friends (and a fair number of my male friends) think I'm nuts, and when invite them to join me, the answer is usually "but *I *could _*never *_do that!"  For the most part, people respect my involvement; a few just look at me funny.  But I've also known a fair number of people - male and female - who join a MA class for a month, a year, or longer, and then quit, because it just doesn't fit them and their personality.  The people I know who do "dig" MAs are as varied as any other random slice of humanity.


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## Ken Morgan (Aug 9, 2009)

I was out yesterday and seen 12 000 chicks, all with these deep brown eyes, and hundreds of then were looking directly at me. I dont think they realized I did MA, but they kept staring at me. As for me I kept thinking, mmmm protein.

  Then I thanked the farmer for showing me around and paid for my flat of eggs


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## Carol (Aug 9, 2009)

Ken Morgan said:


> I was out yesterday and seen 12 000 chicks, all with these deep brown eyes, and hundreds of then were looking directly at me. I dont think they realized I did MA, but they kept staring at me. As for me I kept thinking, mmmm protein.
> 
> Then I thanked the farmer for showing me around and paid for my flat of eggs



Oh, admit it Ken...you only wanted them for their breasts :lfao:


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## teekin (Aug 9, 2009)

Flea said:


> Eh ... *I'm more into the SNAGs myself.  (For you un-initiated, that means Sensitive New Age Guy.)*  We had a new kid in class yesterday who just wouldn't put the pressure on, no matter how much I insisted on it for the sake of my learning curve.  "But I'm a pacifist! And if I injure you, you won't be able to practice for a couple months anyway."  His second argument had some validity, gawd love him, so I had to content myself with a best guess as to whether he was locking my arm or not.
> 
> In terms of attraction, the last thing I want is a protector and provider type.  They tend to have too much ego wrapped up in that role and it becomes a problem.  In a man, I insist on an equal, foibles and all.  Strong _women_, however, make my knees quiver.



OGL, those SNAG types last about a week with me before I break them, purely by accident, you know, but broken all the same. The Alpha types last longer and are just sooooo much more fun to play with. -vampfeed- 

 I must tell you doing MA has given me a much greater appreciation for certain arts, M Artists and teachers. It has shown me flaws in myself and others, shown me new ways to think about movement, pressure, conflict, kinesthetics and relationships. It has shown me I'm no good at thinking around corners but I highly value those who can. It has shown me physical strength does not overcome fear. It seems to have many parallels with dressage. You do not compete against others, you compete against yourself, it's not a race to the end, it's gaining wisdom from the journey. If time is a factor, you are in the wrong sport.
lori


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## Bruno@MT (Aug 10, 2009)

Tez3 said:


> No thats not what I meant at all I'm afraid! I simply meant a man who can make a woman laugh is very sexy.



Like... clowns?


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## Ken Morgan (Aug 10, 2009)

Carol Kaur said:


> Oh, admit it Ken...you only wanted them for their breasts :lfao:


 
Guilty as charged!!


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## Ken Morgan (Aug 10, 2009)

grendel308 said:


> ogl, those snag types last about a week with me before i break them, purely by accident, you know, but broken all the same. The alpha types last longer and are just sooooo much more fun to play with. -vampfeed-


 

lol!!


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## CoryKS (Aug 10, 2009)

"Girls only want boyfriends who have great skills.  You know, like nunchuck skills, bow hunting skills, computer hacking skills..."


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## martialartess (Aug 10, 2009)

It's a good question, but I'm curious because there seems to be two different threads here. Are we talking about "do chicks dig partners who do martial arts?" or are we talking about "do chick dig doing martial arts"?

As a woman, I'd say the former is definitely true. At least most women I know love to watch martial artists. Like swimmers, they tend to be lean, athletic and not muscle-bound. They have a beauty and grace I think many women find very attractive. But when it comes to actually choosing  a partner, I don't think martial arts weighs in very much.

As for the latter, well, as a whole, I say no. It's changing -- slowly -- but there's still a lot of stigma attached to women who practice martial arts. I've been involved in martial arts off and on since 1985 and I've found that men, if they're not into martial arts themselves, seem to be intimidated by female martial artists. There's still that stereotype floating around that women in the martial arts are all men-haters and ball-busting lesbians, something that's definitely not true.

Women are also conditioned by society not to intimidate men, not to be "too strong". It's considered unfeminine and unattractive in a woman. My fiance just started martial arts couple of months back and I've had people (outside the dojang) tell me "Since J's now taking it, you can quit, right?"; *Sigh* And I've been asked that by primarily women.

As far as women leaving abusive relationships -- well that's whole other and very complex topic and something that's not easily answered. I was in an abusive marriage for nearly 10 years. And before I even met my abusive ex I'd achieved a blue belt in tae kwon do. An abusive relationship is a form of brainwashing and teaching women martial arts -- while I agree is valuable -- doesn't automatically mean women will leave. 

Bill Mattox called it a "dead choice" and that's something to remember, because many women fear that leaving their partner will be a "dead choice" -- literally, In many cases, the partner threatens to kill the woman and/or her family and children. But that's a topic that deserves it's own discussion. If anyone's interested exploring this subject further, I wrote a blog post called Domestic Abuse: 12 Reasons Why Women Stay.


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## Flea (Aug 10, 2009)

> It's a good question, but I'm curious because there seems to be two different threads here. Are we talking about "do chicks dig partners who do martial arts?" or are we talking about "do chick dig doing martial arts"?


Good point.  Initially I meant the former, but the thread got hijacked when someone took the question waaaaaaay too seriously.  Since then thanks to moderator intervention it's been re-jacked in a much more positive way.  I'm happy with that.



> I've been involved in martial arts off and on since 1985 and I've found that men, if they're not into martial arts themselves, seem to be intimidated by female martial artists. There's still that stereotype floating around that women in the martial arts are all men-haters and ball-busting lesbians, something that's definitely not true.


No, there are plenty of ball-busting straight women too.  :lol:  I'm not into the dating world at all, so frankly that aspect of the question is a bit lost on me.  But I agree on the stigma.  _Nice_ girls aren't aggressive.  It's the same bundle of assumptions including don't spit, don't put out, don't raise your voice, and go to church.



> Women are also conditioned by society not to intimidate men, not to be "too strong". It's considered unfeminine and unattractive in a woman. My fiance just started martial arts couple of months back and I've had people (outside the dojang) tell me "Since J's now taking it, you can quit, right?"; *Sigh* And I've been asked that by primarily women.


I wish I could remember where I read it, but there was an account of a fancy dinner party at Gertrude Stein's home.  While Stein entertained the literati, her partner sought out their wives.  The partner said that the wives were the most fascinating because underneath that quiet non-famous exterior lurked the soul of someone brilliant and powerful enough to keep up with a spouse like that.  A good lesson for all of us.



> I was in an abusive marriage for nearly 10 years.


Congratulations on making your escape.  I know hard that is, and so do some others on this forum.

Welcome aboard, Martialartess.  You sound very thoughtful and perceptive.  I look forward to hearing more from you.


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## morph4me (Aug 10, 2009)

martialartess said:


> As for the latter, well, as a whole, I say no. It's changing -- slowly -- but there's still a lot of stigma attached to women who practice martial arts. I've been involved in martial arts off and on since 1985 and I've found that men, if they're not into martial arts themselves, seem to be intimidated by female martial artists. There's still that stereotype floating around that women in the martial arts are all men-haters and ball-busting lesbians, something that's definitely not true.


 
I don't like to generalize, but I'm going to do it here anyway. If a man is intimidated by a strong woman, he doesn't deserve her anyway, and she's lost nothing. Strong confident men aren't intimidated by strong confident women.


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## Stac3y (Aug 10, 2009)

I never would have considered it a factor, back when I was single, though I always found MA interesting. Now I dig my husband, who is a skateboarding pre-K teacher. Go figure.

On the other hand, I have noticed that MA guys seem to _really_ dig MA women. Even old married ladies like me.


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## Flea (Aug 10, 2009)

morph4me said:


> i don't like to generalize, but i'm going to do it here anyway. If a man is intimidated by a strong woman, he doesn't deserve her anyway, and she's lost nothing. Strong confident men aren't intimidated by strong confident women.


*

preach it!!!!    




*


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## rdonovan1 (Aug 10, 2009)

morph4me said:


> I don't like to generalize, but I'm going to do it here anyway. If a man is intimidated by a strong woman, he doesn't deserve her anyway, and she's lost nothing. Strong confident men aren't intimidated by strong confident women.


 
That tends to bring up the question as to what exactly confidence is as and as to how does one go about cultivating and developing it.


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## morph4me (Aug 10, 2009)

rdonovan1 said:


> That tends to bring up the question as to what exactly confidence is as and as to how does one go about cultivating and developing it.


 

Off topic for this thread,  you might consider starting another thread.


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## KELLYG (Aug 10, 2009)

Yes we dig!  Our school has a healthy mix of guy's and gals.  I don't see a difference between the sexes as far as general enjoyment of Martial Art's   I think that there is a common perception, among people that have no Martial Arts experience, that women do it for self defense and men do it to fight.   Once a student trains for a while, know while it does provide both of those things it also provides so much more. The reason people stay is the love of the art it's self.


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## celtic_crippler (Aug 10, 2009)

Omar B said:


> I've told this story many times but I'll give the shortened version. One of my college girlfriends was all about me doing karate, told anyone who would listen that she was dating "a karate guy" as she put it. Only thing is, when she realized after 2 months that I trained 3 nights a week and 4 hours first thing on Saturday she didn't like it. Loves the part about me being able to kick *** and that I'm in good shape, hates that I have to spend so much time away. Hate the cause, love the effect.
> 
> On the other hand, my sister's great at karate. She's tall, thin, in great shape and dudes constantly hit on her but they are threatened by a girl who can take care of herself. That leads to her having dated pretty good, decent, self condfident guys throughout college. I rememebr once I picked her up at school and some guy was being pushy with her by the gates as she waited on me. He grabbed at her butt, she pushed him back to create space and landed a spinnign back kick to his chest sending him into some hedges in front of all his boys. Hilarious.


 
Yup... It's hard to keep a healthy relationship if you're truely dedicated. Martial arts is a harsh mistress! LOL


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## still learning (Aug 10, 2009)

Hello, Does anyone find the word use in this site (chicks) ...derogitory to women?

or is it just me? could another word like "Women" or Ladies be use instead?

"da chicks" from our chicken do not mind been call "chicks" so far...its the rooster that is giving us the problems...

My wife loves the "Chicks - kens" from costco...every week as least one in the refrig...

"Chicks is this short for Chickens...and does it means all chickens dig martial arts?

Aloha, ....best to chick- ken out of here.........


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## CoryKS (Aug 10, 2009)

still learning said:


> Hello, Does anyone find the word use in this site (chicks) ...derogitory to women?
> 
> or is it just me? could another word like "Women" or Ladies be use instead?
> 
> ...


 
When one considers that we're 50 posts into the discussion before the first complaint was registered and that complaint was raised by a man, one gets the idea that maybe it is not that offensive.  At least, not to the chick who started this thread.


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## still learning (Aug 10, 2009)

Hello, Thank-you for the feedback...

Always more than one way to look at things....and be right on both sides...

Aloha,    

Man likes eating yellow bananas'...  Women know they can cook the green bananas(cooking bananas here)...and eaten when done....

So who is correct here?  .....


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## Steve (Aug 10, 2009)

My experience is that finding women who "dig" martial arts is like finding a woman who digs video games... or maybe more like finding a woman who digs dungeons and dragons. Basically, finding a woman who is really into it is relatively rare. They're out there, but you're more likely to get a raised eyebrow and a polite egress from the conversation.

Finding one who is willing to indulge your geekiness is probably a little more realistic.

Edit:  Just to add, I used "woman" incidentally and don't have any problem calling women "chicks" although "broads" is a little more callous.


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## rdonovan1 (Aug 10, 2009)

morph4me said:


> I don't like to generalize, but I'm going to do it here anyway. If a man is intimidated by a strong woman, he doesn't deserve her anyway, and she's lost nothing. Strong confident men aren't intimidated by strong confident women.


 

I'm just curious as to why any woman would want a strong confident man. Wouldn't it just be a lot easier to go out and find some guy that will be more than happy to supplicate to you and to even stalk you.

I'm just curious because that just doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me at all.


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## celtic_crippler (Aug 10, 2009)

That's why the metrosexual movement has been so successful. 

The men are pretty, and they have a lot more in common...like going out together for a manny-peddy or getting their hair highlighted. :barf:


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## Steve (Aug 10, 2009)

rdonovan1 said:


> I'm just curious as to why any woman would want a strong confident man. Wouldn't it just be a lot easier to go out and find some guy that will be more than happy to supplicate to you and to even stalk you.
> 
> I'm just curious because that just doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me at all.


 


celtic_crippler said:


> That's why the metrosexual movement has been so successful.
> 
> The men are pretty, and they have a lot more in common...like going out together for a manny-peddy or getting their hair highlighted. :barf:


What the hell are you guys talking about?  First, rdonovan, either you don't know what "stalk" and "supplicate" mean or you're suggestion makes absolutely no sense to me.  Are you saying that women would prefer a guy who stalks them?  I don't see where you're going with that. 

What kind of women are you guys hanging around???


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## rdonovan1 (Aug 10, 2009)

celtic_crippler said:


> That's why the metrosexual movement has been so successful.
> 
> The men are pretty, and they have a lot more in common...like going out together for a manny-peddy or getting their hair highlighted. :barf:


 

I agree. Those guys are so eager to please women and to be with them that they more often than not turn into stalkers because they really don't have any confidence in themselves or a life of their own. 

For them the world tends to revolve around one woman and that is it and more often than not they are so concerned about pleasing and making that woman happy that they forget about their own lives and as to what really makes them happy. 

As a result most of those types of guys end up being so possessive and obsessive about the woman that they will either try to control her or they will stalk her. 

I know that many people may not believe it at all, but it tends to happen all the time and as a result there a lot of guys who end up getting in trouble with the law for it. This is what I was trying to get at before everyone started to attack me and this was brought up before earlier in thread by Bill when he was talking about women who get into relationships in which they are not happy in, yet are not willing to leave the abusive relationship that they know is not good for them. 

It basically becomes a pattern of self abuse for the woman as she knows that it is bad for her, yet she refuses to do anything about it or to even acknowledge that it is really happening to her. She basically becomes trapped in her own little prison that she has setup for herself because she lacks the self confidence and self esteem to stand up for herself and to assert herself.


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## rdonovan1 (Aug 10, 2009)

stevebjj said:


> What the hell are you guys talking about? First, rdonovan, either you don't know what "stalk" and "supplicate" mean or you're suggestion makes absolutely no sense to me. Are you saying that women would prefer a guy who stalks them? I don't see where you're going with that.
> 
> What kind of women are you guys hanging around???


 

It's not me. I actually prefer stong, confident women, but trying to find them is like trying to find a needle in a haystack as there just aren't that many of them out there because most of them believe that they need to be rescued by some guy on a big white horse. 

It's a little thing that psychology tends to call self deception and that is largely brought on by what women are taught to believe by the media and by the rest of society.


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## Steve (Aug 10, 2009)

rdonovan1 said:


> It's not me. I actually prefer stong, confident women, but trying to find them is like trying to find a needle in a haystack as there just aren't that many of them out there because most of them believe that they need to be rescued by some guy on a big white horse.
> 
> It's a little thing that psychology tends to call self deception and that is largely brought on by what women are taught to believe by the media and by the rest of society.


It is you.  Or, I should say, if you believe that most women are weak and prefer stalkers over men, I think that's you projecting your own hangups and not in any way indicative of reality.  

I think you need to raise your game a little, personally.  If you're having trouble finding confident, intelligent women, it's not because they don't exist.  I've never had a problem finding strong, capable women who challenge me intellectually. 

Frankly, this train of thought just drives me nuts.  Either the men are weak or the women are weak.  BS.  Metro-sexual men are largely a myth created by ad agencies so that they can coerce men into buying Axe and hair gel.  Personal hygiene isn't weak.


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## jarrod (Aug 10, 2009)

still learning said:


> Hello, Does anyone find the word use in this site (chicks) ...derogitory to women?
> 
> or is it just me? could another word like "Women" or Ladies be use instead?
> 
> ...



i use the term as a female version of "dudes" or "guys", something less formal sounding that ladies but not (intended) as dismissive as girls can sound.  

jf


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## rdonovan1 (Aug 10, 2009)

stevebjj said:


> It is you. Or, I should say, if you believe that most women are weak and prefer stalkers over men, I think that's you projecting your own hangups and not in any way indicative of reality.
> 
> I think you need to raise your game a little, personally. If you're having trouble finding confident, intelligent women, it's not because they don't exist. I've never had a problem finding strong, capable women who challenge me intellectually.
> 
> Frankly, this train of thought just drives me nuts. Either the men are weak or the women are weak. BS. Metro-sexual men are largely a myth created by ad agencies so that they can coerce men into buying Axe and hair gel. Personal hygiene isn't weak.


 
It doesn't matter what I think. It's what the media and the traditional dating scene are saying. 

If you don't believe it then go and pick up some copies of women's magazines like Cosmopolitan or Glamour and see what they are telling women. It might also be helpful if you were to pick up a few romance novels and see what they are saying as well. 

What is important though is as to how you think and as to whether you believe enough in yourself to do the right thing.

While I am in favor of women doing themselve's up to make themselve's look pretty for us guys. I am not in favor of them being so hung up on themselve's that they forget how to defend themselve's out on the street.

I don't know about you, but I don't know of too many muggers or rapists that are going to sit around and wait for a woman to do up her nails and her face before he decides to attack her.


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## Ken Morgan (Aug 10, 2009)

Find me a woman who likes the Japanese Sword Arts, Weight training, eats chocolate, loves the fine arts, a good steak and likes Monty Python, and Im all set.

My other half likes two of them and I wouldnt trade her for the world. She has zero MA experience but would rip your throat out if you looked at her wrong. Shes 5 2, maybe 125#, I seen her yell at and tell a 66 275# biker type to go F*** himself when he gave her a hard time about something. I pity and mugger who came up on her

Gimmie a strong woman any day.


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## FeralKenpo (Aug 11, 2009)

Strong vs weak? What does that even mean? 
I think you are all meaning mentally strong?
Well I think that a mentally weak woman is also unintelligent. 

I'll take an intelligent woman over any other. 

And I did.


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## rdonovan1 (Aug 11, 2009)

FeralKenpo said:


> Strong vs weak? What does that even mean?
> I think you are all meaning mentally strong?
> Well I think that a mentally weak woman is also unintelligent.
> 
> ...


 

I don't believe that it is so much a matter of intelligence as it tends to have more to do with attitude, common sense, and of course character.

Intelligence is a combination of biology which no one can control and the desire and willingness to educate yourself on topics which you might not know about.

Some people say that you can't teach common sense at all and perhaps that may be true, but what a person can do regardless of gender is educate themselve's on topics that they don't know and to be more aware of both themselve's and their environment that they are in. 

This is true not only in male/female relationships, but also when it comes to everyday life.

Many people tend to think that what women are really after is looks and money in a man, but that really is not true at all. That is something that the media and hollywood have taught people to think. The real truth is women want a man who is mentally, emotionally and spiritually strong and who is congruent in his words and his actions. 

Bruce Lee once said that it is best to be like water and I believe that he is right about that as water can either help you or hurt you depending on the circumstances and as to what you are doing.

If for example you are at sea in a life raft would you try to drink the ocean water? My guess is probably not, because everyone knows that saltwater like that can dehydrate you and kill you, yet a glass of fresh water is good for you and will help you to live.

Many people may tend to dismiss the ancient teachings of the martial arts as being nothing, but hogwash. That however just proves their ignorance and their stupidity as everyone that has ever studied the Chinese martial arts knows that most of the Chinese systems of fighting like Monkey, snake, crane, tiger, praying mantis, and others came from the masters attention to detail and to their observance and respect for nature. If they had not paid attention to the tactics and techniques that many animals tend to use then more than likely we would not have any of the Chinese martial arts or at least they would be limited.

Whether we choose to accept it or not we are all guilty of making very poor decisions in our lives that we may end up regreting and that applies to both genders as neither side has a market on that at all.

I don't know as to why anyone else came here, but my reasoning was to develop myself better so that I am making better decisions and so that I am doing what it takes to not only assert myself better, but to also be more aware of both myself, others, and my environment so that I can better defend myself either verbally or physically if and when the time calls for it as I tend to believe in picking my battles very, very carefully just like Sun Tzu and Miyomoto Mushashi teach. This applies not only to my business and professional life, but also to my personal life as well as I know that I have made more than my fair share of mistakes in both life and love and I personally am not to reduce the number of mistakes that I make while at the same time remembering that I can and will make mistakes both now and in the future.


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## Tez3 (Aug 11, 2009)

There's a joke about 'chicks'...it goes why do men call women chicks? because of the worms they pick up!
I've never been called a broad, I think it would make me laugh it I were, it's not a word we brits use, it's veryamerican lol, when we think of the word broad it brings to mind Raymond Chandler, Humphrey bogart that sort of thing.

Ken, such a pity you are taken already lol I love all those things but it sounds as if you have yourself a cracker of a partner!

When I was single i never went out with civvie men, always military, two reasons, that was I all I got to meet and I prefer the type. It's not the uniform, I wear uniforms, its the confidence and discipline, the 'can do' attitude I like. And I will say I know plenty of women like that too.

I have heard a lot on television, in the magazines etc and from American women who come over here looking for Englishmen that American men are more docile and American women are more aggressive than Europeans? personaly I think this must be stereotyping. I was going to put a link to an American article here but on reading it through I don't think the writer realised she was using such rude language so I won't put it here, she wrote it very innocently about British men and the 'seductive' accent (lol for us) and used the c word several times thinking thats what we do and she's so so wrong!!


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## Tez3 (Aug 11, 2009)

rdonovan1 said:


> I don't believe that it is so much a matter of intelligence as it tends to have more to do with attitude, common sense, and of course character.
> 
> Intelligence is a combination of biology which no one can control and the desire and willingness to educate yourself on topics which you might not know about.
> 
> ...


 

You've been thinking again haven't you? try just using your heart when looking for a partner or become a celibate Shaolin monk.


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## KELLYG (Aug 11, 2009)

TEZ  

You are a hoot!   Maybe rdonovan1 would have better success with the lady's if he would just lighten up!!!   Hearing guy's talk about women crack me up sometimes.  Smart women want the same thing that men do.  Someone that they can get along with.  I think of two parallel lines one being man one being woman going along side by side in life.   Both separate individuals but going in the same direction.


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## morph4me (Aug 11, 2009)

KELLYG said:


> TEZ
> 
> You are a hoot! Maybe rdonovan1 would have better success with the lady's if he would just lighten up!!! Hearing guy's talk about women crack me up sometimes. Smart women want the same thing that men do. Someone that they can get along with. I think of two parallel lines one being man one being woman going along side by side in life. Both separate individuals but going in the same direction.


 

Which should answer rdonavan1's question about  why any woman would want a strong confident man. It's easier and more enjoyable going through life with an individual who can stand on their own two feet and walk with you, and help you when you need it and accept your help, than having to carry or drag someone along.


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## KELLYG (Aug 11, 2009)

My point exactly!!!


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## Ken Morgan (Aug 11, 2009)

Tez3 said:


> Ken, such a pity you are taken already lol I love all those things but it sounds as if you have yourself a cracker of a partner!


 
You're a chick??!! Damn from your posts I always thought you were a guy!!


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## Tez3 (Aug 11, 2009)

Ken Morgan said:


> You're a chick??!! Damn from your posts I always thought you were a guy!!


 

Less of a chick more a mother hen these days lol!


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## Ken Morgan (Aug 11, 2009)

Tez3 said:


> Less of a chick more a mother hen these days lol!


 
I hear you. Similar perspective, different gender.


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## still learning (Aug 11, 2009)

Hello,   Men wants SEX...Women wants LOVE ....somewhere in between is a happy middle!   ...note: can be more left or right....depends on the guys or ladies...

When we use to go to see "Chinese's movies" ...mostly kung-fu / marital films...in the old days (theaters)...YOU will see LOTS and lots of women watching the movies!

in the beginning they will show parts of NEXT shows...and you will see the same people over and over..and the same women too..the following week..

Do Women dig martial arts?  ....many enjoy watching "Kung-fu movies"..

Aloha,    

PS: this was in the seventies...todays women?  ....not sure if they change?
best to take a survey?


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## Omar B (Aug 11, 2009)

still learning said:


> Hello,   Men wants SEX...Women wants LOVE



I think that's wholly wrong.  I know many women who want just sex and men who want love.  There's no gender divide as to what people want out of life.


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## fangjian (Aug 11, 2009)

Tez3 said:


> When I was single i never went out with civvie men, always military, two reasons, that was I all I got to meet and I prefer the type. It's not the uniform, I wear uniforms, its the confidence and discipline, the 'can do' attitude I like. And I will say I know plenty of women like that too.


 
Yay! I like you Tez


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## Daniel Sullivan (Aug 11, 2009)

Flea said:


> It came up elsewhere, so I thought it deserved a spinoff.
> 
> On that thread, I said that my experience is a little different as a woman. But people in general seem to dig it. Other women are impressed because I'm doing something to protect myself. They think they _can't_ do it, even though all I did was respond to an ad in the classifieds. I tell them that and it usually makes no difference at all.
> 
> ...


Some dig it, some do not.  Just like some gents dig it in a lady and some do not.

But why is this is posted in self defense???

Daniel


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## rdonovan1 (Aug 11, 2009)

Daniel Sullivan said:


> Some dig it, some do not. Just like some gents dig it in a lady and some do not.
> 
> But why is this is posted in self defense???
> 
> Daniel


 

If I am reading what she wrote right and if I am understanding it correctly she is referring to setting personal boundaries for herself and she is talking about how confidence and a belief in oneself is important not only in relationships but also in self defense as well. That's my interpretation of it anyway. I could be wrong however.

All that I know for sure is that people can and do lie all the time and you have to be very careful about who you trust and who you don't trust. 

I don't know about anyone else here, but I personally have a seen a lot of scams both online and offline and because of my natural tendency to trust people and to believe everything they say I have fallen victim to many of those scams and lies and that is why I am redeveloping myself so that I am a lot more cautious about who I trust and who I don't trust so that I don't get taken advantage of again by anyone for any reason.

I know that a lot of people may think that it is safe out there and that everyone can be trusted but that just simply is not true at all and it is because of all the scams and the lies that I have fallen victim to both in what I thought were romantic relationships online and offline, but even with people that I have met offline as well and because of the neighborhood that I live in I thought that it would be best to start seeking out new and improved ways of defending myself so that I am not so much of a victim to people who would otherwise choose to hurt me.

Someday I would like to be able to move out of the neighborhood that I am currently living in and into a better neighborhood, but as long as I live in the neighborhood that I currently live in people can and will try to take advantage of me and try to hurt me just to satisfy their own self interest and greed and that's why I need to pay attention to self defense on all levels while at the same time believing that I can do whatever I set my mind to do as that confidence combined with competence is very attactive not only to women, but to potential employers as well.


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## Daniel Sullivan (Aug 11, 2009)

Fair enough.  I just thought it looked more like a general MA thread.

Daniel


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## Langenschwert (Aug 11, 2009)

jarrod said:


> in my experience, chicks think it is pretty cool at first. if things progress to the relationship level though, they seem to get frustrated that i'm training so much. it's kind of like they want you to have magic super badass protective powers, but without spending any time away from them.


 
Ain't that the truth. I don't know how many times I've head something like "you love swords more than me" and other such nonsense. It's not just MA... my ex's were jealous of my musical endeavours as well.

Best regards,

-Mark


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## jarrod (Aug 11, 2009)

I know!  my first wife thought it was really cool that i was in a band.  imagine my surprise when i found out she didn't like music that much.  she just thought it was cool that once or twice a month i would get on a stage & be the center of attention.  she didn't want to actually listen to me practice at home though.  god forbid.  

jf


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## still learning (Aug 11, 2009)

Omar B said:


> I think that's wholly wrong. I know many women who want just sex and men who want love. There's no gender divide as to what people want out of life.


 
Hello,  Good point.....Eve ate the apple first...knew what she wanted...Made Adam a smarter person....and learn about What EVE wanted!

Aloha,  .....UM ...UM ....UM....which do I choose tonight?


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## Tez3 (Aug 12, 2009)

still learning said:


> Hello, Men wants SEX...Women wants LOVE ....somewhere in between is a happy middle! ...note: can be more left or right....depends on the guys or ladies...
> 
> When we use to go to see "Chinese's movies" ...mostly kung-fu / marital films...in the old days (theaters)...YOU will see LOTS and lots of women watching the movies!
> 
> ...


 
When I joined the RAF and was in training we we warned about the male recruits not because they wanted to get into the girls knickers but because they'd get homesick and want to get married!! it's true enough as it turned out, there were a couple of engagements, didn't last though. I waited a while and met a fantastic Royal Marine Commando, sadly the IRA broke our engagement but a while afterwards I met a Rockape ( RAF Regiment) and, reader, I married him. 

Oh and I love martial arts, all martial arts.


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## Flea (Aug 12, 2009)

Daniel Sullivan said:


> Some dig it, some do not.  Just like some gents dig it in a lady and some do not.
> 
> But why is this is posted in self defense???
> 
> Daniel



Good question.  The only reason I posted it here was because the thread I spun it from (reasons why people get into MA) was also here.  In retrospect there may have been other choices, but ... eh.  No big deal either way.  What matters is that people have enjoyed the conversation.


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## Chris Parker (Aug 12, 2009)

Well, for the most part, at least, my lady...


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## Flea (Aug 12, 2009)

I hereby nominate the inventor of the "ignore" function in online forums for the Nobel peace prize.  :lol:

Anyone second?


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## Chris Parker (Aug 12, 2009)

See, this is why we're friends, you make me smile! 

Hang on, does that mean I dig martial arts?

And does that mean I'm a chick?

I got some identity issues now...


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## Carol (Aug 12, 2009)

Chris Parker said:


> See, this is why we're friends, you make me smile!
> 
> Hang on, does that mean I dig martial arts?
> 
> ...



Never seen a picture of you Chris but I'm pretty sure you're not a chick.  

But if you dig martial arts and you dig chicks that dig martial arts, you're quite all right with me :asian:


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## Chris Parker (Aug 12, 2009)

Actually, my avatar is a picture of me, just so you know. Don't really see the point in hiding behind false images, if I put my words down, I like to know that I'm standing behind them. Real name, real pic of me. Oh, and so far only one member has managed to coax a better pic from me, so she would be the one to ask...

As for digging martial arts and female martial artists, well, I've really held back from this thread for a few reasons, but I'll make my case here from a number of perspectives.

First, as a guy, yes, I certainly do love women who enjoy martial arts. It's not an essential, but certainly a plus where I'm concerned. But my biggest criteria is a genuine personality (although, being a guy, certain physical attributes will get my attention quicker. For the record, they are deep, literate eyes, and a genuine warm smile). I meet a few too many girls who have yet to grow up, or simply have no strength to their character. Dealbreaker for me.

As an instructor, I would like to see far more women involved in martial arts. I believe that women actually tend to make better martial artists than most men, as men tend to "muscle" their way through techniues, whereas women, due to their physical structure often can't. This leads to them needing to apply the techniques properly in the first place, and as a result, the rate of skill development and improvement is quite a bit faster. Which can be fun to watch when a boyfriend/girlfriend couple start at the same time, and all of a sudden she's better and higher ranked than he is...

And finally, to take it back to the original thought that started this thread, it is simply too general a statement to make. Basically, being a martial artist may increase your appeal to some women, but not others, however, the attributes that can come with martial art training can be quite attractive pretty well across the board. Martial arts are not the only way to achieve this, though.


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## Langenschwert (Aug 12, 2009)

jarrod said:


> I know! my first wife thought it was really cool that i was in a band. imagine my surprise when i found out she didn't like music that much. she just thought it was cool that once or twice a month i would get on a stage & be the center of attention. she didn't want to actually listen to me practice at home though. god forbid.
> 
> jf


 
Yeah, it sounds like she was more interested in the status being on stage gave you, rather than the art itself. Pretty typical of a lot of young women, really... especially today. 

Sometimes they'll actively sabotage practice time with demands that you do XYZ "right now" just to keep you from spending time on something that isn't them. If that starts happening, call her on it. If she doesn't change behaviour, it's time to walk away.

Best regards,

-Mark


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## Carol (Aug 12, 2009)

Langenschwert said:


> Yeah, it sounds like she was more interested in the status being on stage gave you, rather than the art itself. Pretty typical of a lot of young women, really... especially today.
> 
> Sometimes they'll actively sabotage practice time with demands that you do XYZ "right now" just to keep you from spending time on something that isn't them. If that starts happening, call her on it. If she doesn't change behaviour, it's time to walk away.
> 
> ...



Its not much different with men either.   When I played on a regular basis, I dated a guy that wasn't a musician that thought dating someone was in the band was cool, but when it came down to practice times and all that, he wasn't that cool with it.  Some folks might run in to the same paradox when dating someone that doesn't train.  The commitment isn't all that different.

Personally I think if one has a passion in your life, such as martial arts or music, then its important to find a mate that also has a passion in their life.  It doesn't have to be the same passion, but if you're out training while your mate is at home, bored and waiting for you to return, that could be a tough situation to endure over time.


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## Flea (Aug 12, 2009)

Thanks Chris, that was a great answer.  Very thoughtful.

Now that I think of it, I don't believe I answered my own question.  The first martial artist I ever had any close contact with was a slug - outspoken racist, prolific womanizer, drug addict, and thrice-convicted felon who sidestepped a life sentence thanks to a bureaucratic error.  I'll call him "Jack."

Did it turn me off MA?  Strangely, no.  We had a very brief friendship until I saw through him. Instead, I was a little intrigued.  I planned a major cross country road trip and he insisted on showing me some moves.  Tragically, they came in handy. :disgust:  So I owe him a debt of gratitude and I'm fine with that.

Fast-forward a few years to my enrolling in Systema.  Here's a whole room full of martial artists, no women but me.  Some of them are attractive, but when I'm there I'm too busy working on my skills.  That's more important to me.  Besides, I don't think I'd want to get involved with someone if we're beating each other up, even if the beatings are mutually consensual entertainment.  That would be way too creepy for me.  

My training has come full circle in a way though; we had a New Kid start a couple weeks ago.  He's sweet as a puppy.  It actually makes him a little hard to work with because he _refuses_ to use any pressure, especially with me.  He's smart, he's deeply spiritual, he's even kinda cute.  In short, he's my kinda guy.  At one point he asked the teacher about the "death grab" or some such, and we were all taken aback.  Who told you about that?  His regular teacher, Jack.  Turns out one of the reasons he refuses to apply pressure is that Jack pummels the snot out of his students.  Doesn't surprise me a bit.  So New Kid has found a happy home with us, and I hope he leaves Jack's class for his own good.

I don't bear Jack any ill will.  He sincerely means well.  He's just very, very lost.  One interesting thing is that he's a devout Christian. (And for the record, no, he didn't turn me off that either.)  I hope it gives him a better sense of direction some day.


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## Chris Parker (Aug 12, 2009)

I spoke at length to a young lady whose family runs a martial art supply store here in Melbourne about how she percieves the average martial artist who comes into her store (well, I've spoken to her about a lot of things, great girl), and she basically said that the majority are young guys who are little more than boys. Then there are the thugs, who don't really have much to offer when it comes to personality. So by-and-large, in her experience, martial artists are simply not impressive.

In fact, she said that she could probably count on one hand the number of guys who had come through the doors who she was actually impressed with. Unfortunately, there are just too many "Jacks" out there, and this is what I was infering when I first mentioned "public perception" of martial artists. If your entire experience of martial artists was made up of "Jacks", would you find them attractive?

As to the "New Boy", hopefully he will get better. Remember that a lot of guys have internal issues about hitting girls, we get taught not to from a very young age...


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## Flea (Aug 12, 2009)

> Remember that a lot of guys have internal issues about hitting girls, we get taught not to from a very young age...



I wouldn't have it any other way.    I don't think any of us here would.


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## Chris Parker (Aug 12, 2009)

Absolutely. But there does need to be a way for him to give you a realistic training experience, so he'll need to get past it to a degree, at least. But if it spills outside of training, he'll have to answer to that! Don't think that'll be an issue with him, form your description, though...


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## Stac3y (Aug 12, 2009)

Carol Kaur said:


> Personally I think if one has a passion in your life, such as martial arts or music, then its important to find a mate that also has a passion in their life. It doesn't have to be the same passion, but if you're out training while your mate is at home, bored and waiting for you to return, that could be a tough situation to endure over time.


 
I certainly agree, and I'd like to add that people without their own passions are pretty boring mates, IMO.


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## Chris Parker (Aug 12, 2009)

Tez3 said:


> You know what women want? I'll tell you...a man who can make them laugh, never, ever underestimate the ability to laugh a woman into bed.


 
Absolutely true. One thousand percent.

So... Two guys walk into a bar.

I mean, really. You'd think at least one of them would have seen it first, right? Talk about your situational awareness... Must have been a pretty blonde walk past... Guys can be such dopes...


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## Carol (Aug 12, 2009)

Its OK, the third guy ducked :lol:


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## Shuto (Aug 13, 2009)

Carol Kaur said:


> Personally I think if one has a passion in your life, such as martial arts or music, then its important to find a mate that also has a passion in their life. It doesn't have to be the same passion, but if you're out training while your mate is at home, bored and waiting for you to return, that could be a tough situation to endure over time.


 

Wise words.


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## Deaf Smith (Aug 13, 2009)

Carol Kaur said:


> Personally I think if one has a passion in your life, such as martial arts or music, then its important to find a mate that also has a passion in their life. It doesn't have to be the same passion, but if you're out training while your mate is at home, bored and waiting for you to return, that could be a tough situation to endure over time.


 
This is true Carol. My wife has her own thing she loves to do (outside work on the house and at the Church.) I'm the Neanderthal who loves shooting and martial arts. 

We make time for each other. Yes, I do some of the yard work... I have to get 10 bags of cement tomorrow so Saturday morning we will put in a walkway in the back yard! And secretly I hate yard work!!!

I try not to workout to much and be away. That is why I work out at World Gym right after work. I have to manage my time very carefully.

But yes, both need hobbies they love to do.

I have also found both need to have a common interest. My wife was the simi-liberal before I married her. Now she is stuck on Bill O'Rilley, Glenn Beck, and 'House Hunters'! She is more conservative than I am! We've been to Tea Parties together even!

Deaf


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