# Old Modern Arnis Empty Hands



## Black Grass (Aug 18, 2005)

Modern Arnis empty hand seems to be heavily influenced by Wally Jay's Small circle ju jitsu (scjj). MA locks and take downs seem (to me) to have a more ju jitsu flavour than other FMAs. What was MA empty hand like before Prof. met Wally Jay?

Vince
Black Grass


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## Guro Harold (Aug 18, 2005)

That's a great question, Vince!

I hadn't been around long enough to know the answer but I suspect that some of the joint-lock "small circle" concepts were used more than anything else.

Well that's my 2 cent contribution.

-Harold


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## Dan Anderson (Aug 18, 2005)

Black Grass said:
			
		

> Modern Arnis empty hand seems to be heavily influenced by Wally Jay's Small circle ju jitsu (scjj). MA locks and take downs seem (to me) to have a more ju jitsu flavour than other FMAs. What was MA empty hand like before Prof. met Wally Jay?
> 
> Vince
> Black Grass


Hi Vince,

Modern Arnis empty hand applications prior to Prof. Presas' hooking up with Prof. Jay - good topic!  The locking consisted of larger, more circular actions.  The first flow locking series in my book, _Advanced Modern Arnis_, was taken from that period.  The diving throw and heel hooks were more prominent.  The trapping hands were the same as well as the striking actions.  If you explore the first five empty hand anyos that'll give you an idea.  Also if you get ahold of the first five video tapes, RP demonstrates _pre-SCJJ_ Modern Arnis.

Empty hand Modern Arnis was very tough on the ukis.  SCJJ just tightend up the locking into very compact actions which made it even tougher.  Take it from one who was from that era.

Yours,
Dan Anderson


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## Guro Harold (Aug 18, 2005)

Dan Anderson said:
			
		

> Hi Vince,
> 
> If you explore the first five empty hand anyos that'll give you an idea.  Also if you get ahold of the first five video tapes, RP demonstrates _pre-SCJJ_ Modern Arnis.Yours,
> Dan Anderson


Hi Dan,

There are actually seven videos in the series.

Best regards,

Harold


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## Datu Tim Hartman (Aug 18, 2005)

Palusut said:
			
		

> Hi Dan,
> 
> There are actually seven videos in the series.
> 
> ...



Yes and no. The original series was 5 tapes. Remy went back years later to film the other 2 making the total 7. The first 5 volumes would have been a more accurate statement. 

 :asian:


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## Dan Anderson (Aug 18, 2005)

Datu Puti said:
			
		

> Yes and no. The original series was 5 tapes. Remy went back years later to film the other 2 making the total 7. The first 5 volumes would have been a more accurate statement.
> 
> :asian:


Plus I am more familiar with the original set of five.

Dan Anderson


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## Brian R. VanCise (Aug 18, 2005)

I would have to agree Dan that most of empty hand
moves were larger and after training with Wally Jay 
everything moved to a smaller tighter version! You
can definately see Wally Jays influence on Modern
Arnis! *Another question would be what specific *
*techniques do you feel were impacted the most*
*by the Professor's training with Wally Jay?*

Brian R. VanCise


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## Guro Harold (Aug 18, 2005)

Datu Puti said:
			
		

> Yes and no. The original series was 5 tapes. Remy went back years later to film the other 2 making the total 7. The first 5 volumes would have been a more accurate statement.
> 
> :asian:


Understood, but I was just giving an FYI more than a correction, thus the usage "there are" instead of "there were." The whole set of seven as lot of cool stuff on them including the techniques in question.
-Harold


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## Dan Anderson (Aug 18, 2005)

Brian R. VanCise said:
			
		

> I would have to agree Dan that most of empty hand
> moves were larger and after training with Wally Jay
> everything moved to a smaller tighter version! You
> can definately see Wally Jays influence on Modern
> ...


ALL finger and wrist locks plus the addition of the knuckle rub against the golgi tendon point.

Yours,
Dan Anderson


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## Brian R. VanCise (Aug 18, 2005)

Hey Dan,

That would be the way I would look at it also! However since
you brought up finger locks I do not teach finger locks per se.
If I get a finger it is broken plain and simple! I do not rely nor 
feel comfortable relying on the finger or finger's per say to
refer to them as a *lock*! I will use a finger to manipulate to 
an armbar or other more proven locking technique for control,
but I will not rely on a finger for control! I have had the
pleasure of seeing several people with broken fingers, toes that
all continued to function with no apparent problems during and
after their break! Thats just my opinion on using finger's for
control does any one else have a differing view?

Brian R. VanCise


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## Guro Harold (Aug 18, 2005)

Brian R. VanCise said:
			
		

> Hey Dan,
> 
> That would be the way I would look at it also! However since
> you brought up finger locks I do not teach finger locks per se.
> ...



Great point about finger locks and for that matter it can apply to any type of lock, with or without the use of a weapon.

There is a perspective that you don't go for a particular lock but it is apart of the mix, you seize the opportunity. This helps protect the defender from going for a lock and in the midst of it all getting nailed because they were microfocused on applying the lock.
-Palusut


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## Brian R. VanCise (Aug 18, 2005)

Palusut,

Absolutely, just flow into the lock and if needed flow on to 
something else without being to fixed! No tunnel vision and 
forcing the move just let it flow!

Brian R. VanCise


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## Dan Anderson (Aug 18, 2005)

Brian & Harold,

Yep.

Dan


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