# Yee Jee Kim Yeung Ma



## Bino TWT (Feb 11, 2018)

Training the practical applications of IRAS / Yee Jee Kim Yeung Ma...


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## Martial D (Feb 11, 2018)

Is there supposed to be a video here? It seems to be a picture of you and your dogs. (edit - goats?)


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## Kung Fu Wang (Feb 11, 2018)

Here is another usage.


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## geezer (Feb 11, 2018)

Hey Bino, did anybody ever find out if the acronymn IRAS or _Internal Rotation Adduction Stance_ works the same in German as English? I suppose it _should_ ...seeing as this term originated with the EWTO (German) Branch of WT.

I tried google translate and variously came up with _Interne Rototation Adduktion Haltung_, or _Interne Adduktion Rotationsposition_, or finally _Interne Rotation Adduction Stehen_ (which could work) ....but I have no idea if any of these actually make sense!  ...It's almost like there's never a German speaker around when you need 'em! 

Meanwhile, I just call it "Character Two" stance, as Sifu Leung did, coming from the _Yee Gee_ in YGKYM.


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## Bino TWT (Feb 11, 2018)

Martial D said:


> Is there supposed to be a video here? It seems to be a picture of you and your dogs. (edit - goats?)



No video, just a pic of me in my Yee Jee Kim Yeung Ma; Character Two Goat Clamping Stance. 

Probably the first time you've actually seen the stance used for what it's named after, huh? lmao


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## Bino TWT (Feb 11, 2018)

geezer said:


> Hey Bino, did anybody ever find out if the acronymn IRAS or _Internal Rotation Adduction Stance_ works the same in German as English? I suppose it _should_ ...seeing as this term originated with the EWTO (German) Branch of WT.
> 
> I tried google translate and variously came up with _Interne Rototation Adduktion Haltung_, or _Interne Adduktion Rotationsposition_, or finally _Interne Rotation Adduction Stehen_ (which could work) ....but I have no idea if any of these actually make sense!  ...It's almost like there's never a German speaker around when you need 'em!
> 
> Meanwhile, I just call it "Character Two" stance, as Sifu Leung did, coming from the _Yee Gee_ in YGKYM.




I actually know a few old school EWTO German guys. I'll ask them when I talk to them. You have me curious now as well lol.


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## jlq (Feb 12, 2018)

Could work:

Innen
Rotierter
Adduktions
Stand


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## jlq (Feb 12, 2018)

The English term IRAS did not originate in Germany, it was Leung Ting's English term for "Yi Zhi Kim Yeung Ma".

You will see that he uses this term in his books and videos.


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## Bino TWT (Feb 12, 2018)

jlq said:


> The English term IRAS did not originate in Germany, it was Leung Ting's English term for "Yi Zhi Kim Yeung Ma".
> 
> You will see that he uses this term in his books and videos.



I'll check that out. I have a lot of his books. I've never seen the IRAS name used in a non-EWTO release though. The IWTA (Hong Kong Wing Tsun) side of the lineage doesn't use that term.


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## jlq (Feb 12, 2018)

He is also using it in his videos, if I ak not mistaken. 

Given how YZkYM translates, IRAS might be a far better English term to use.


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## Bino TWT (Feb 12, 2018)

jlq said:


> He is also using it in his videos, if I ak not mistaken.
> 
> Given how YZkYM translates, IRAS might be a far better English term to use.



I agree with the acronym over the translation lol. Any links to vids? I've never seen it in one that wasn't an EWTO sponsored vid.


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## jlq (Feb 12, 2018)

Authentic Wing Tsun and Dynamic Wing Tsun, the companion videos to the books by the same names.


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## jlq (Feb 12, 2018)

Update: i was wrong in Authentic Wing Tsun he calls it

character two adduction stance


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## jlq (Feb 12, 2018)

same for Dynamic Wing Chun...



I found out my mistake: I checked the German edition of Leung Ting's books.

My mistake.


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## Bino TWT (Feb 12, 2018)

jlq said:


> same for Dynamic Wing Chun...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Lol that'll do it!


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## jlq (Feb 13, 2018)

It can be a bit confusing keeping track of those things...

Different language editions and some inconsistency when it comes to terms used, make it quite a challenge to keep things clear.

Also, certain omissions, modifications and addendums make it even less transparent.

I remember that some things have been left out from "Authentic Wing Tsun" in its German incarnation, with a chapter being added by Sifu Kernspecht (his "Lat Sao" aka "Paak Sau Spiel).

Also, certain Terminology was modified in the German version of "Dynamic Wing Tsun" as well as having all the pics replaced with new shots featuring the top guys in his EWTO at the time.


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## geezer (Feb 13, 2018)

jlq said:


> It can be a bit confusing keeping track of those things...Also, certain omissions, modifications and addendums make it even less transparent.
> 
> I remember that some things have been left out from "Authentic Wing Tsun" in its German incarnation, with a chapter being added by Sifu Kernspecht (his "Lat Sao" aka "Paak Sau Spiel).
> 
> Also, certain Terminology was modified in the German version of "Dynamic Wing Tsun" as well as having all the pics replaced with new shots featuring the top guys in his EWTO at the time.



Thanks for the perspective. I have never seen the German editions of those books.

I trained with LT in the states back in the 80s, before the Germans started coming over here and LT never used the term IRAS. Also, his Lat Sau was very simple and unlike what the EWTO versions.

Later, some EWTO guys, most notably Emin Boztepe, came over here and introduced some of the EWTO curriculum, and the guy I currently train with, my si-dai under LT, went to Germany when he was in the USAF and learned the German curriculum.

Sorry to hear that the EWTO changed the pics in the European edition of _Dynamic Wing Tsun. _I was in the original version!


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## jlq (Feb 13, 2018)

Well, from a sales point of view it was a smart move of Sifu Kernspecht to have all his current (at the time) top people featured in the book. In this way all the students could see pictures of their respective masters/sifus which might entice a loyal and dedicated student to purchase the book...



Leung Ting himself put out a new version of Dynamic Wing Tsun more than 10 years ago, I believe some pics had been changed as well. I would have to check, to be sure, though.

Leung Ting's Lat Sau is basically five "attacking hands" implementing what the Chinese call "zin faat zhai yan" (taking initiative/preemptive attacking) and has nothing to do with Keith Kernspecht's "Lat Sao", which surved as a surrogate for sparring.

Leung Ting is not exactly a fan of KK's creation, to put it mildly...


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## Martial D (Feb 14, 2018)

Bino TWT said:


> No video, just a pic of me in my Yee Jee Kim Yeung Ma; Character Two Goat Clamping Stance.
> 
> Probably the first time you've actually seen the stance used for what it's named after, huh? lmao


oh. Hah. I didn't even notice you were in WC stance.


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## geezer (Feb 14, 2018)

jlq said:


> Leung Ting is not exactly a fan of KK's creation, to put it mildly...



Yep. In private, Sifu (Leung Ting) used to refer to the "German lat sau" as _"Some funny movements..."_ and would make critical remarks about people who thought they were _"very clever"_ making things up. And that was in the 80s. I believe the conceptual rift between the EWTO and Hong Kong versions of WT has only grown wider over the years.

On the other hand, in our program we use a lat sau program based on the EWTO model and, although at first I had doubts (coming from LT's camp), now I have come to see it as a very useful way of training.


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## wckf92 (Feb 15, 2018)

jlq said:


> Leung Ting's Lat Sau is basically five "attacking hands" implementing what the Chinese call "zin faat zhai yan" (taking initiative/preemptive attacking)



Interesting. 
I am not familiar with that term. Can anyone explain further? Perhaps link a video? Show an example?
Thanks!


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## jlq (Feb 15, 2018)

It basically means that you take the initiative to strike the opponent.

Nothing complicated.

Anyone striking an adversary first, taking (over) the initiative is employing this tactic


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## wckf92 (Feb 15, 2018)

jlq said:


> It basically means that you take the initiative to strike the opponent.
> 
> Nothing complicated.
> 
> Anyone striking an adversary first, taking (over) the initiative is employing this tactic



Ok. 
And you are saying that in the Leung Ting lineage, he teaches 5 hands of this?


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## jlq (Feb 15, 2018)

You have to understand the context...

Leung Ting teaches 7 sections of Chi Sao (basically choreographies of movements from SNT and CK), followed by four sections consisting of moves from the third form, etc.

But this is all chi sao, and as Leung Ting puts it himself, all the cs skill in the world does no good if you can't contact the opponent's bridge.

So after the 7th section he teaches 5 five "attacking methods" (Lat Sau) to teach the student to move in on the opponent and attack the opponent while bridging.

In the EWTO we didn't learn like that, but for the 9th student grade (that means after completing the first section CS) we learned 12 so called attacking methods, some were the same as in Leung Ting's five, others were not.

Anyhow, it is very basic stuff which I am.sure any other Wing Chun lineage teaches as well.


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## wckf92 (Feb 15, 2018)

jlq said:


> You have to understand the context...
> 
> Leung Ting teaches 7 sections of Chi Sao (basically choreographies of movements from SNT and CK), followed by four sections consisting of moves from the third form, etc.
> 
> ...



Understood. Thx for explaining!


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## jlq (Feb 15, 2018)

You are most welcome.


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## yak sao (Feb 15, 2018)

Here is Leung Ting teaching the Lat Sao.


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## wckf92 (Feb 15, 2018)

yak sao said:


> Here is Leung Ting teaching the Lat Sao.



Hmmnnm... thx for posting. Looks like just simple entry type drilling with 1) pak, 2) tan, 3) jut or lop, 4) double lop/jut, 5) couldn't really make out what LT was trying to teach on the last one...


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## yak sao (Feb 15, 2018)

wckf92 said:


> Hmmnnm... thx for posting. Looks like just simple entry type drilling with 1) pak, 2) tan, 3) jut or lop, 4) double lop/jut, 5) couldn't really make out what LT was trying to teach on the last one...



He calls it the hacking punch. The arms basically crash the opponent's bridge.
The LT footwork strives for 100% weight on the back leg, using the front foot to pull you forward.
This particular technique uses what he calls "front foot becomes  the rear foot".
You are falling off line then all the weight goes to the front leg, the body turns with the hacking punches making the front leg the rear leg. What was the back leg is now gripping the ground to anchor you from falling, but there is still no weight on it....you probably have that step in your CK form after the last kick.


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## wckf92 (Feb 15, 2018)

yak sao said:


> He calls it the hacking punch. The arms basically crash the opponent's bridge.
> The LT footwork strives for 100% weight on the back leg, using the front foot to pull you forward.
> This particular technique uses what he calls "front foot becomes  the rear foot".
> You are falling off line then all the weight goes to the front leg, the body turns with the hacking punches making the front leg the rear leg. What was the back leg is now gripping the ground to anchor you from falling, but there is still no weight on it....you probably have that step in your CK form after the last kick.



Excellent. Thx for the detailed response Bro.


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## KPM (Feb 16, 2018)

yak sao said:


> Here is Leung Ting teaching the Lat Sao.



Ah!  Augustine Fong taught (teaches?) something very similar that he calls the "5 slow attacks" or sometimes "Man Sau attacks."


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## wckf92 (Feb 16, 2018)

KPM said:


> Ah!  Augustine Fong taught (teaches?) something very similar that he calls the "5 slow attacks" or sometimes "Man Sau attacks."



Hmm..wonder just how similar they are? Any chance you could post a link or video of them?


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## KPM (Feb 16, 2018)

wckf92 said:


> Hmm..wonder just how similar they are? Any chance you could post a link or video of them?


 
We're in luck!  Did a search and youtube and found that Sifu Brian Tufts has several vids covering the topic!


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