# Needed: Tips for Bong Sau



## Jordan274 (Jun 15, 2011)

Hi all, 

I'm new to the forum and to WC itself. 
The problem for me (that i want to work on) is my Bong sau.
I kept gettin it in the wrong position. I was wondering if anyone has any tips.
I'm literally a beginner so all help would be grateful.

Heres what I think I know of it:

- the angle is roughly 140 degrees 
- The wrist is at the centre line, but lower than the elbow which is lower than the shoulder. 

I think thats right but any help would be grateful. 

I've tried a few video's and dvd's to compare but there to fast for me.
Also I've tried infront of a large mirror, but I concrentrate to much on the mirror image and mess up my technique again lol. Maybe I'm think about it to much lol x3


Thanks and kind regards

- Jordan


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## geezer (Jun 15, 2011)

Jordan274 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I'm new to the forum and to WC itself.
> The problem for me (that i want to work on) is my Bong sau.
> I kept gettin it in the wrong position. I was wondering if anyone has any tips.- Jordan



Jordan, the exact details of how to position and apply bong-sau vary between groups or "lineages" in our art, and even within a particular group, the form the technique takes depends more on your application and force you encounter than a rigidly defined "position". So I'd suggest first going to your sifu and si-hings for advice. If you don't have a sifu, I'd say getting one should be your first priority!


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## yak sao (Jun 15, 2011)

ditto what geezer said....i also had trouble getting my bong sau to where I was somewhat content with it ( I'm never satisfied with any of my WT...there's always room to grow)
A major issue for me was shoulder flexibility.

Just keep training your form. SNT will build functional flexibility


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## wtxs (Jun 15, 2011)

Jordan274 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I'm new to the forum and to WC itself.
> The problem for me (that i want to work on) is my Bong sau.
> ...



For all practical purpose, you are there.  Work on in-grain that position into your muscle and skeletal memory whether you are in the front-on or side-on position 

As Geezer had pointed out, the execution of bong sao various slightly between different WC factions.  I have seen it done by lifting slightly upward before "drilling" forward - kinda like an stereo typed rigid karate upper block, as oppose to just extend smoothly forward with a cork screw motion.

Yak Sao sez: A major issue for me was *shoulder flexibility*.

You are so right in that respect, lots of people had to compensate by adjust as best as they can, and not worry about "that is not an good representation of bong sao".


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## Jordan274 (Jun 15, 2011)

I'll talk to my sifu tomorrow about it as I have a class then.

Very grateful for the advance, I know that everyone actually performs subtle different in there WC. I just though I may have missed something. 

I'll keep practising my first form (Its there for a reason after all xD) and talk to my sifu and the seniors in my class.


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## bully (Jun 15, 2011)

Jordan274 said:


> I'll talk to my sifu tomorrow about it as I have a class then.
> 
> Very grateful for the advance, I know that everyone actually performs subtle different in there WC. I just though I may have missed something.
> 
> I'll keep practising my first form (Its there for a reason after all xD) and talk to my sifu and the seniors in my class.


 
Who do you train with mate?

Always learning in this art!! and yep so many subtleties...gets frustrating at times.


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## Nabakatsu (Jun 15, 2011)

I'm sure everyone has told you this is very lineage dependent, so firstly, consult your instructor or si-hing, he should be the one to help you with this.
After that, I Can only share my lineages view, and only as best I understand them.
I want my shoulder relaxed, and in place, (in my socket) I want my elbow high than my shoulder, and my wrist below my shoulder, I want my elbow to be facing your centerline, I want forward slight forward energy so that should you release, WHACK, here comes a strike at your head/throat area, probably more info than you need or want. Best o luck and ask your sifu/sihing!


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## zepedawingchun (Jun 15, 2011)

Jordan274 said:


> - The wrist is at the centre line, but lower than the elbow which is lower than the shoulder.



The elbow should be just as high or a bit higher than the shoulder.  If the elbow is lower, whenever pressure is put upon the wrist or forearm (especially downward and not inward pressure), the energy travels to the shoulder joint and puts undue stress on the joint.  If the elbow is just a bit higher (not more than 1/2 inch) the energy passes through the shoulder, through the body, to the legs and feet and then to the floor.  Try it and see.  Drop your elbow below the shoulder joint and have a partner press very hard down onto your bong sao and try to hold them out.  Feel the stress in the shoulder joint? After 2 - 3 seconds the joint will start to hurt.  Then have your partner release the position, raise your bong sao slightly higher than your shoulder (and you can exagerate the position a bit), have your partner press again and feel the difference.


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## Jordan274 (Jun 16, 2011)

bully said:


> Who do you train with mate?
> 
> Always learning in this art!! and yep so many subtleties...gets frustrating at times.


 

I train with Sifu Mike Arnold in Swansea and according to his website he trained under Sifu Steve Jones and he trained under Sifu Shaun Rawcliffe.


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## bully (Jun 16, 2011)

Sounds good, Shawn Rawcliffe is very well respected in the WC world. Would like to go to a seminar if he did them, dont think he does outside his club though.


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## El_Nastro (Jun 16, 2011)

Jordan274 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I'm new to the forum and to WC itself.
> The problem for me (that i want to work on) is my Bong sau.
> ...



Bong sau's not hard, but it is very easy to do wrong. What I tell people is, "Make a tan sau. Now look at your watch". That's really all there is to it. 

Remember what bong sau is supposed to accomplish. It's supposed to deflect an incoming punch off target. 

Sometimes new WC'ers get too hung up on how a given technique is supposed to be ("my elbow has to be exactly 30.726 degrees, my wrist has to be directly on my centerline, the wrist needs to be exactly 140.836485 degrees....") instead of focusing on what it's supposed to accomplish. So if your bong sau does what it's supposed to, then you're basically doing it right. 

The most common indicator that you're doing it wrong is if, instead of deflecting a strike, your bong sau acts like a ramp to your face for the incoming punch.


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## mook jong man (Jun 17, 2011)

El_Nastro said:


> Bong sau's not hard, but it is very easy to do wrong. What I tell people is, "Make a tan sau. Now look at your watch". That's really all there is to it.
> 
> Remember what bong sau is supposed to accomplish. It's supposed to deflect an incoming punch off target.
> 
> ...



Ha ha , I like that ramp up to the face bit , very apt description.
I reckon the first couple of times I tried it , it was more like a driveway up to face I was getting hit so much.


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## Jordan274 (Jun 17, 2011)

El_Nastro said:


> Bong sau's not hard, but it is very easy to do wrong. What I tell people is, "Make a tan sau. Now look at your watch". That's really all there is to it.


 

Kudos! to you good Sir!

Actually your tip really helped me in my class last night, and I have better confidence in my technique now. 

But I get what you mean, I'm new to WC and I just want to do it 'right' even though WC isnt suppose to be practised like Karate. Or so I'm told and I've heared x3

And I love the ramp note, As this has happened a few times xD


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## Domino (Jun 17, 2011)

From what I have been told, in tan sau use the wrist to switch to bong sau and the elbow will follow !

http://www.kwokwingchun.co.uk/techniques/bong-sau


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## El_Nastro (Jun 17, 2011)

Jordan274 said:


> Kudos! to you good Sir!
> 
> Actually your tip really helped me in my class last night, and I have better confidence in my technique now.
> 
> ...



Glad it helped.


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## El_Nastro (Jun 17, 2011)

mook jong man said:


> Ha ha , I like that ramp up to the face bit , very apt description.
> I reckon the first couple of times I tried it , it was more like a driveway up to face I was getting hit so much.



Can't take credit for the ramp-thing. Got it from my instructors. (good little tip though...spread it around)


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