# successor



## Hanzo04 (Jun 18, 2004)

Who do you guys think will become the next soke of the bujinkan after Hatsumi?


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## Elizium (Jun 18, 2004)

We do not know nor care.  Hatsumi is claimed to have a sucsessor from the book "Art of the Ninja", but that was from the 1980's (I will look it up in caseanyone asks).


Best thing for you to do is to keep training and not bother with talking about this, you will only get the same answer as mine.


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## Kokoro (Jun 18, 2004)

i believe it was Dale who said it best ("These things are discussed in private") And that to be honest is where it should stay.

 We spend too much time worry and thinking about things we have no control over rather than working on what we can improve, ourselves.

 Dale, if it wasn't you that said that on a previous post my apologies and I'll claim it for myself


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## Kreth (Jun 18, 2004)

Hanzo04 said:
			
		

> Who do you guys think will become the next soke of the bujinkan after Hatsumi?


To put it in more Western terms, this is similar to hanging out with family and discussing who's getting what when Grandpa kicks off... 

Jeff


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## marshallbd (Jun 18, 2004)

Kreth said:
			
		

> To put it in more Western terms, this is similar to hanging out with family and discussing who's getting what when Grandpa kicks off...
> 
> Jeff


Very good analogy sir.... :asian:


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## Shogun (Jun 18, 2004)

> To put it in more Western terms, this is similar to hanging out with family and discussing who's getting what when Grandpa kicks off...


While Grandpa's in the room, even. 

(look I know Hatsumi Soke is not here, but some people that know him well ARE here...)


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## Dale Seago (Jun 18, 2004)

Kokoro said:
			
		

> Dale, if it wasn't you that said that on a previous post my apologies and I'll claim it for myself



I did, but you were first to say it here so I'll share the credit.  :wink2: 

And I'll tell y'all a little story. Just a moment here. . .

(Dale lights a cigarette, pours a dram of single-malt Scotch whisky, settles down into his comfy chair and slips off his jika-tabi)

Aahh. . .Thanks for bearing with me there. Okay, this was several years ago at a U.S. Tai Kai: I think it was the last one that was held in Atlanta, whichever year that was. My memory's not what it used to be as a youngster -- need to start taking ginkgo biloba so I can remember where I put the Viagra, and. . .

. . .Um, where was I? Oh yes, that Tai Kai. Well anyways, one thing that was unusual about that one is that whenever Soke would yank the poor judan-level instructors up onstage to do something which would show they were grasping what he was trying to get across, he wasn't letting us bring up our favorite ukes to make us look good: The judan all had to work with each other. Soke seemed to be trying to get a message across with that, something about all of us working together.

And then, after the second day's training I think it was, in the evening there was this question-&-answer period scheduled with Soke where everyone could ask whatever they wanted. After a few questions, sure enough, some idjit asks if he plans to designate another Soke. Hatsumi literally ignored the question and did not respond at all, going on to someone else.

After a few more questions, some _other_ idjit asked him what the future of the Bujinkan would be when he was no longer teaching. He didn't reply directly; instead he called all the judan in the audience up onto the stage. So there I am, trying to look inconspicuous and blend in in my kilt, and Soke makes us all sit down there on the stage.

Then he says, "These are the judan. They will answer your questions."

And without another word, he simply walks out of the ballroom and doesn't come back, leaving us to field questions from the audience for the next hour and also, coincidentally (?), again forcing us to work together and accommodate each other.

That was Hatsumi sensei's answer.


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## Elizium (Jun 18, 2004)

So Dale it seems that we are the sucsessors to the Bujinkan.   Everyone that goes to the dojo and train for the love of the system.


So I guess that is the answer?


Or am I wrong?


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## Kokoro (Jun 19, 2004)

Dale

 I remember the incident, some people will never learn what is important and worry about the future, today is what is important and how we live it.


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## tshadowchaser (Jun 19, 2004)

It sounds to me as if your Soke has a great way of stateing the obvious. 
Those that didn't understand his reply where obviously not ready or even to be considered.
 I must say I like the way he handled those questions  :asian:


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## Elizium (Jun 19, 2004)

One thing about Hatsumi is that he can be obscure in his thoughts.  By doing what he did at that seminar, he made us realise (well the ones that have two or more brain cells to rub together) that anyone can be Bujinkan, just that the Soke title is not gained no matter how hard you try.


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## Bujingodai (Jun 19, 2004)

I was there for that Tai Kai, that was a tense moment and the wrong time for it to be discussed. However the legitamicy of the question is real

"We do not know nor care."

Unless you speak of yourself only then this comment is a blowoff. It is one of the most discussed issue in the Kan. Among teachers and students. 

There are definate ramifications if it isn't discussed at all. Say an accident, the info is transmitted via Kuden, not on paper etcetc. Well then would you have thousands claiming to be the next Soke as what has happened with Koga?


It is a rude question and the day hopefully will be a long time away. But with the lineage it should be discussed to keep it safe. Thats just my 2 cents


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## Elizium (Jun 20, 2004)

If you can get to read Art of the Ninja that was printed in the 1980''s by Peter Lewis, take a look at page 110.  It will tell you in there about a sucessor or what may happen.


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## Kreth (Jun 21, 2004)

Bujingodai said:
			
		

> There are definate ramifications if it isn't discussed at all. Say an accident, the info is transmitted via Kuden, not on paper etcetc. Well then would you have thousands claiming to be the next Soke as what has happened with Koga?


Spelling and grammar aside, your own comments are tripping you up. And I won't even start on the Koga thing (snort)... It's not hard to see if you pay attention to what Dale and others have written, that the topic is kuden. Obviously, Hatsume sensei wants us to focus on the training. When it is time I'm sure the Bujinkan at large will be informed (those that can be bothered to keep current with the Honbu anyway). Until then, why waste time blathering on about it over the Internet, especially those of you that aren't even in the Bujinkan.

Jeff


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## Elizium (Jun 21, 2004)

Kreth said:
			
		

> Spelling and grammar aside, your own comments are tripping you up. And I won't even start on the Koga thing (snort)... It's not hard to see if you pay attention to what Dale and others have written, that the topic is kuden. Obviously, Hatsume sensei wants us to focus on the training. When it is time I'm sure the Bujinkan at large will be informed (those that can be bothered to keep current with the Honbu anyway). Until then, why waste time blathering on about it over the Internet, especially those of you that aren't even in the Bujinkan.
> 
> Jeff


Well if there is no sucsessor, then the scrolls will not be passed on.  the TCJRNM will be the only things that are in existence that will be as close to the Densho as possable.

Maybe Kreth's last sentance should be the hint that this subject should not have been made and should be closed.


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## Dale Seago (Jun 21, 2004)

Well, the lesson I took away from it. . .

(Dale pauses for a sip of his favorite Highland single malt)

. . .was that the future will be up to the judan and how well they work together for the good of the Bujinkan.


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## Bujingodai (Jun 21, 2004)

Jeff makes a good point.
And yes I would assume that it is Kuden, just that sometimes that can blow up in the face considering the magintude of the issue. Mind you I guess it is also insulting of me to assume that documents have not been dealt with already. I was more playing devils advocate.
True enough I am no longer practicing in a Kan dojo, so I should keep quiet I respect that.
As for the Judans getting along to make it work, that would be something to see


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## Elizium (Jun 22, 2004)

However the future turns out, the system will remain along with the katas, philosophy and the ideas.  And that is all I will say on the subject.


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