# New here with some wingtsun questions..



## Padawan.U.K (Jun 29, 2011)

Hi all,

Just joined as i was looking for some answers and hoped some more knowledgeable people could perhaps help.
I recently started wingtsun classes, iv'e always been interested in this and although some might think i'm a bit old at 45, i try to keep fit and thought id have a go. 
Anyway. long story short, i've been quite happy with my first month or so training, though find some stuff hard to remeber once i get home, but recently there was a grading session, i wasn't eligible, so was trainig in a corner of the room with another student and an assistant teacher. during this time i was repeatedly hit on the throat as he explained a move, this left me with a sore throat for a least 15 hours. I don't believe i learnt much from this, as i didn't get to attempt it as much as i'd liked, but when i did, i made sure i didn't strike the throat as i knew how much it hurt. One of the guys was grading to a higher level than the others, and had to do some sort of sparring, wearing body armour and head gear, i later found out that he had ended up with a bust nose and black eye as a result of this grading. Is this normal? If so then im not too sure i want to continue. as i'd like to learn to defend myself, not just get beaten up by someone who has had many years of training and is supposed to be setting a good example. Thanks for any replies/input as i'm really baffled by all of this. 


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## Vajramusti (Jun 29, 2011)

Padawan.U.K said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Just joined as i was looking for some answers and hoped some more knowledgeable people could perhaps help.
> I recently started wingtsun classes, iv'e always been interested in this and although some might think i'm a bit old at 45, i try to keep fit and thought id have a go.
> ...


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## BloodMoney (Jun 29, 2011)

Padawan.U.K said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Just joined as i was looking for some answers and hoped some more knowledgeable people could perhaps help.
> I recently started wingtsun classes, iv'e always been interested in this and although some might think i'm a bit old at 45, i try to keep fit and thought id have a go.
> ...



As my instructor would say, theres no reason to get hurt while learning how NOT to get hurt.

If your sparring for a MMA sport event then thats a different story, you need conditioning and (quite blatantly) to be punched in the face a few times, but for street self defense, and certainly for Wing Chun, this is unacceptable.

I would tell your instructor honestly and straight up, mate thats hurting my throat im not comfortable with that. Hell stop. If he doesnt, find another school its that simple, training should be fun


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## cwk (Jun 29, 2011)

I agree with what's already been said about the chopping the throat thing- especially for a beginner but I see nothing wrong with getting hit in sparring.
 A bloody nose and a black eye isn't that bad, it won't kill him and hopefully he'll learn from the experience and try to improve his defence. Also, getting hit and realizing the fact that you are more than likely to get hit is something you need to get used to if your serious about using your MA to defend yourself. You need to learn to take the hit, ignore it and respond instantly without "freezing".
Nobody wants to get hit, and we train as hard as we do to reduce the risk of that happening but the reality is, that in any physical confrontation with an aggressive opponent, you are likely to get hit.


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## bully (Jun 30, 2011)

First thing, at 45 you are too old mate. There are quite a few older guys in here who are fit as a fiddle and WC helps them stay that way.

That throat thing seems a bit over the top, being shown an arm lock and going to the point that it bloody hurts, well yes. Only for a second so you know how to control it, there is no need to repeatedley hurt someone when practicing. 

Black eyes and bloody noses during grading sparring? A likely event, you want to pass your grading, you are adrenelined up and want to show your sifu that you can do it!! Had a few in my time back when I did gradings.....it is nothing to boast about, it means I was crap at defending

Doing a martial art you are always going to get knocks and bruises, if you haved a public facing job that would not look kindly to you turning up with a shiner...have a word with your sifu about it.


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## WC_lun (Jun 30, 2011)

A senior student striking a beginner in the throat is not proper.  Perhaps once so you can actually feel it, but not repeatedly, especially if he isn't going to take what he is giving.  That needs to be stopped.

As far as dotted eyes and busted noses, that is indeed part of learning to defend yourself.  While it should not be a constant thing, you aren't going to learn how to defend yourself without taking some contact.  Occasionally that leaves bruises.  You are not taking a dance class.  You are taking a class on violence between you and another human being. It isn't pretty, and it involves contact.


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## Domino (Jun 30, 2011)

I've experienced it myself and have seen it happening also, no need and as CWK said we all need to learn to take a clip but shouldn't really happen in the beginning of your training, some schools are different. I mean... injure your training partner .... means no training.


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## yak sao (Jun 30, 2011)

I tend to see that a lot with asst. instructors and new "black belts"....they think they have to prove themselves.
Also, at 45, you are not too old, in fact, WT is perfectly suited for someone as they get older.
If this particular school isn't to your liking, find another, but don't give up training, it has so much to offer.


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## Jenna (Jun 30, 2011)

Padawan.U.K said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Just joined as i was looking for some answers and hoped some more knowledgeable people could perhaps help.
> I recently started wingtsun classes, iv'e always been interested in this and although some might think i'm a bit old at 45, i try to keep fit and thought id have a go.
> ...


I am not a WC person and but it seems to me that if you are relaying accurately what happened in your recent classes then I believe they are going a little hard on you as a novice.Some say that is fair enough and then again, some folk in clubs and classes are just like that, they kind  of hit everyone with the same gusto which is both good and bad. Personally when I see that kind of action towards novices I think it is poor form for someone of senior rank.   

As has been stated however, you are not there to learn dance moves.  On the other hand, please do not be afraid to speak out or move away if you find something unfairly painful or just plain unfair.  If you get slated for it by your sifu or anyone else then maybe figure that class is not for you.  Plenty more places to train.  Training should not be sneaky or tricky; you should not be expected to know etiquette in the beginning or that you are not meant to stand taking blows and but just the plain facts of your techniques are what should be shown to you.  I wish you luck!


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## mook jong man (Jun 30, 2011)

During your time in Wing Chun you will accidentally hurt people and people will accidentally hurt you.

These incidents are inevitable in such a close range system , but usually they occur between people of approximately the same ability.
An instructor along with demonstrating great speed should also be able to demonstrate great control.

Once is an accident , but if it happens repeatedly then that person needs to work on their control or lack there of.
The issue might be easily resolved by just saying " Could you watch your control please".

If the request is ignored or in anyway downplayed then it is time for you to find a school where the instructors are a bit more responsible.
And for Gods sake get out of there before they start demonstrating elbow strikes.


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## WC_lun (Jun 30, 2011)

mook jong man said:


> And for Gods sake get out of there before they start demonstrating elbow strikes.


 
...or striking into a person at the same time you have sunk thier bridge. That is rough even on the best of days.  Working with someone with little control...ugh.


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## Nabakatsu (Jun 30, 2011)

haha mook, I've had some life flashing before my eyes moments with elbows, even with my friendly careful crew, that was too funny..


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## Haris Lamboo Faisal (Jun 30, 2011)

If you think the assistant instructor will understand if you ask him to stop demonstrating *strikes* for the sake of *explanantion* in such a painful way then you should ask him to do so.

From the looks of it chances are you won't have to deal with this guy that often since the others were being graded and i guess no formal training was taking place at the time. 

Surely if all else fails, you can *talk to the senior instructor* or *move to a different school.*


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## Padawan.U.K (Jun 30, 2011)

Thanks for all the input guys, It's pretty much as I thought, I mentioned to my sifu tonight about the guy giving me a sore throat, and was meet with a smile and an awkward silence, then he said "oh he's going away abroad soon so we won't see him for a while".  When I asked If the grading was the norm he replied "It seems to be now", so i'll guess i'll just persevere, as I am enjoying my regular weekly sessions, just had that bad one. I'm thinking about going to an 8 hour seminar next month, at first I thought it was just a money making thing, but I can't judge unless I go, so I hope it's worth it.

Thank again for all your input.
Cheers.


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## bully (Jun 30, 2011)

Wheres the seminar, whos doing it and whats it about?

Attended a few and they have always been worthwhile. From my old Sifu who done a locks and restraining seminar years ago to Gary Lam in 2008 in London. I was out of my league at the Gary Lam one but still made to feel welcome and learnt lots. Take a notebook is my advice!!


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## Tez3 (Jun 30, 2011)

BloodMoney said:


> As my instructor would say, theres no reason to get hurt while learning how NOT to get hurt.
> 
> If your sparring for a MMA sport event then thats a different story, you need conditioning and (quite blatantly) to be punched in the face a few times, but for street self defense, and certainly for Wing Chun, this is unacceptable.
> 
> I would tell your instructor honestly and straight up, mate thats hurting my throat im not comfortable with that. Hell stop. If he doesnt, find another school its that simple, training should be fun


 
I train MMA and no we don't punch each other in the face in training for conditioning, for one thing many fight amateur rules...no strikes to the head but even the pro rules fighters don't strike each other in the head and never the throat. MMA stand up sparring is karate/kick boxing/MT, no harder, no softer, just the same.

I've already replied on the same OP over in the Meet & Greet section, as has someone else. Perhaps a Mod could merge them rather than have to posts the same?


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## Nabakatsu (Jun 30, 2011)

I'm in a somewhat similar system, EBMAS, Wing tzun, on 1 letter off! 
The seminars we have have ALWAYS been wayyy more than worthwhile, I feel like I'm ripping the sifu off, always try to get privates with the man as well, phenomenal instruction!
I hear Leung Ting's organization is a little bit more in it for the $ but none the less, should be worth your time!


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## Padawan.U.K (Jul 1, 2011)

Sorry for posting twice, I went to the welcome area first and then realised there was a wing chun area afterwards.
As for the seminar, it's what our regional instructor learnt when he and others went to a seminar in germany, which is a bit odd cos they already did that last month, but apparantly this month thay are also adding a bit of escrima into the programme as well. Unfortunatly this also means having to fork out for an escrima stick. plus £30 for the 8 hours training. I have heard that at the last one they spent the first hour doing sit-ups ect. I'll give it a go, then if it's not to my liking then I won't bother again.

Cheers everyone.


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## geezer (Jul 1, 2011)

Padawan.U.K said:


> Sorry for posting twice, I went to the welcome area first and then realised there was a wing chun area afterwards.
> As for the seminar, it's what our regional instructor learnt when he and others went to a seminar in germany, which is a bit odd cos they already did that last month, but apparantly this month thay are also adding a bit of escrima into the programme as well. Unfortunatly this also means having to fork out for an escrima stick. plus £30 for the 8 hours training. I have heard that at the last one they spent the first hour doing sit-ups ect. I'll give it a go, then if it's not to my liking then I won't bother again.
> 
> Cheers everyone.



Is that _Bill Newman's Escrima_? I did WT and Latosa Escrima here in the States many years back and reached instructor rank in both. Now I'm with an independent group, though I still try to train with Rene Latosa on the rare occasions that he is available within 500 miles of my home town. Judging only from videoclips, Bill's stuff has evolved into something quite different from Rene's, but equally tough. I'd say it's well worth the additional price of a stick to get some exposure to that. Can't justify wasting an hour of seminar time doing sit-ups though. That seems just wasteful!


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## Padawan.U.K (Jul 1, 2011)

Yeah, sounds like same stuff, quote "using the guidelines laid out by Grand Master Newman, Master Cameron and Sifu Scott Rowlinson", from WT website.

If im correct is this the same art that Dan inosanto also teaches?

Thanks.


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