# RIP Tim Hague



## Headhunter (Jun 18, 2017)

Forner mma fighter tim Hague died today after getting knocked out in a boxing match. It seems like very poor organisation. Firstly the ref should've stopped the fight sooner as he was knocked down multiple times, his corner should've thrown in the towel and frankly he shouldn't even have been in the fight. His opponent was way more experienced and hague had only had a fight recently and got knocked out then.

Obviously in combat sport it's a risk but stupid mistakes like this shouldn't be happening and now his family has to deal with this tragic loss. Thoughts are with the family. RIP.

Former UFC fighter Tim Hague dead at age 34 after boxing knockout


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## CB Jones (Jun 18, 2017)

Headhunter said:


> Forner mma fighter tim Hague died today after getting knocked out in a boxing match. It seems like very poor organisation. Firstly the ref should've stopped the fight sooner as he was knocked down multiple times, his corner should've thrown in the towel and frankly he shouldn't even have been in the fight. His opponent was way more experienced and hague had only had a fight recently and got knocked out then.
> 
> Obviously in combat sport it's a risk but stupid mistakes like this shouldn't be happening and now his family has to deal with this tragic loss. Thoughts are with the family. RIP.
> 
> Former UFC fighter Tim Hague dead at age 34 after boxing knockout



I don't think the ref or corner was that negligent.  Hague was answering questions and following instructions after each knock down and was engaged in fighting until the last KO.

Looks more like a freak accident from the back of his head hitting the canvas hard.  

Sad deal.


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## Headhunter (Jun 18, 2017)

CB Jones said:


> I don't think the ref or corner was that negligent.  Hague was answering questions and following instructions after each knock down and was engaged in fighting until the last KO.
> 
> Looks more like a freak accident from the back of his head hitting the canvas hard.
> 
> Sad deal.


Of course they were that's why they have the 3 knockdown rule. If you get dropped that many times the fight should be stopped


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## Tez3 (Jun 19, 2017)

Headhunter said:


> Of course they were that's why they have the 3 knockdown rule. If you get dropped that many times the fight should be stopped



and why in MMA it's one knockdown and you're out.


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## Headhunter (Jun 19, 2017)

CB Jones said:


> I don't think the ref or corner was that negligent.  Hague was answering questions and following instructions after each knock down and was engaged in fighting until the last KO.
> 
> Looks more like a freak accident from the back of his head hitting the canvas hard.
> 
> Sad deal.


Also he should never have been in the position of his head hitting the canvas because he should never have been allowed to carry on. you see it so many times fighters think they're fine after a stoppage and argue it but doesn't mean theyre fine at all. im sure if the ref had stopped it after the first or second knock down hague would've argued and complained at least he'd be alive right now if it had


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## Tames D (Jun 19, 2017)

I liked how his opponent was very concerned about him after the fight.


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## CB Jones (Jun 19, 2017)

Headhunter said:


> Of course they were that's why they have the 3 knockdown rule. If you get dropped that many times the fight should be stopped



But they don't have a 3 knockdown rule in place.  How can you enact a rule that isn't in place?

None of the KOs save the last one were bad or brutal.  He got right up, followed the refs commands, and answered questions each time.  That is what is required to continue fighting.

It is unfortunate but unfair to blame the ref or corner.  Hindsight is 20-20.

I also wonder if this was compounded by previous damage.


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## CB Jones (Jun 19, 2017)

Now if you want to change the protocols in boxing after knock downs that's fine but the ref was following the protocols in place

Maybe this will make commissions revisit why they aren't putting the three knockdown rule in effect


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## Headhunter (Jun 19, 2017)

CB Jones said:


> But they don't have a 3 knockdown rule in place.  How can you enact a rule that isn't in place?
> 
> None of the KOs save the last one were bad or brutal.  He got right up, followed the refs commands, and answered questions each time.  That is what is required to continue fighting.
> 
> ...


Well there should be the whole promotion should be investigated for even allowing the guy to fight since he'd only been knocked out recently. It's absolutely fair to blame them. The referee is there to make sure no damage happens and if you get knocked down 3 times by a heavyweight fighter that's heavy shots they're taking to the brain. And the corner is there to protect their fighter. These days there's to many wannabe tough guys in corners who are willing to let their fighters get hurt just for pride.


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## JowGaWolf (Jun 19, 2017)

I'm surprised that no one has caught this.  So I'll post it here.
Watch the fight again and you'll see multiple strikes to the back of the head.  The ref saw the same thing and even warned him about striking the back of the head.  The problem is that Tim probably shouldn't have been in that fight to begin with.  His defensive crouch left the back of his head open.  This is really dangerous when people start throwing hooks and over hand strikes.  Things that would have normally hit down on a person's face is now landing on the back of the head.  The thing I'm talking about is this:  

The kid talks about catching an upper cut and as he does, you can see how exposed the back of his head is.





The danger of this comes when a person does a hook to your face and you turn your face down which means the hook will now land on the back of the head.  Quality boxing coaches are super sensitive to this  (or should be).  It's not a big secret and it's something that is so basic that many coaches teach it without thinking.  My guess is that his experience in the UFC fast tracked his path into the ring before his boxing fundamentals could be evaluated.

You can see that the other fighter was trying hard not to hit him in the back of the head, but there's little that he can do to stop a punch with the person going face down each time a punch comes in.  

I don't blame the ref on this one.  I don't blame anyone for what happened.  I will however say  that his boxing coach should have made sure he had some good boxing foundations before he stepped into that ring.  UFC skill does not = Boxing Skill.   Just because he had the skills to compete in the UFC doesn't mean that he was boxing ready.
I think a lot of things that normally aren't overlooked for beginners was overlooked for him.  He wasn't ready for the boxing environment.

The shots that he took weren't monstrous punches.  It's just that they were landing to the back of the head and it doesn't take much power to cause damage when striking the back of the head.


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## Tony Dismukes (Jun 19, 2017)

It's a shame. It was pretty obvious in the first minute that Hague had no business being in that ring. I don't know whether he was out of shape, not fully recovered from his last knock out, or just didn't have the fundamental boxing skills (or all three), but he didn't have the tools to protect himself from a pro boxer. 

Unfortunately fighters are often unwilling or unable to recognize their own limitations and vulnerabilities. That's why it's important for coaches and referees to be willing to say "that's it, you're done" even when the fighter refuses to admit defeat. (Honestly, if I was his coach I wouldn't have wanted him to step into the boxing ring in the first place without better preparation.)


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## JowGaWolf (Jun 19, 2017)

Tony Dismukes said:


> Unfortunately fighters are often unwilling or unable to recognize their own limitations and vulnerabilities. That's why it's important for coaches and referees to be willing to say "that's it, you're done" even when the fighter refuses to admit defeat. (Honestly, if I was his coach I wouldn't have wanted him to step into the boxing ring in the first place without better preparation.)


 Maybe one day this will change.  This reminds me ove the Sun Tzu quote. “*If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle*_._”


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## Headhunter (Jun 19, 2017)

Tony Dismukes said:


> It's a shame. It was pretty obvious in the first minute that Hague had no business being in that ring. I don't know whether he was out of shape, not fully recovered from his last knock out, or just didn't have the fundamental boxing skills (or all three), but he didn't have the tools to protect himself from a pro boxer.
> 
> Unfortunately fighters are often unwilling or unable to recognize their own limitations and vulnerabilities. That's why it's important for coaches and referees to be willing to say "that's it, you're done" even when the fighter refuses to admit defeat. (Honestly, if I was his coach I wouldn't have wanted him to step into the boxing ring in the first place without better preparation.)


Fact is even though I don't want to talk bad about the deceased Hague wasn't even that great an mma striker so god knows why he went to boxing. He's the guy Todd duffee knocked out in 7 seconds to get fastest ko in ufc history. And his opponent was something like 7-1 and he was 3-2 I believe I could be slightly wrong with the numbers there. But most blame should be on his team for even letting him fight. I haven't watched the fight yet because I can just never do that. It makes me feel sick watching a man die in the ring.

Fact is this kind of things been happening for so long more needs to be done to protect fighters. Fighters should be independently reviewed by a commission e.g watch them spar and train and see if they look like they're good enough skill wise to fight or in good enough shape before approving them.


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## JowGaWolf (Jun 19, 2017)

Headhunter said:


> Fighters should be independently reviewed by a commission e.g watch them spar and train and see if they look like they're good enough skill wise to fight or in good enough shape before approving them.


I like this idea especially since after watching Ronda Rousey's coach do the wrong thing (twice) in regards to her training.  It was clear to see from her that she shouldn't have been in her fight either trying to fight with Boxing skills.   I think the commission should be made of people from Martial Talk. I'm not saying me, but if they want to hire me, then I won't reject. lol.  But seriously, the big problems are always easy to see, it's just that no one is say.  Hey, there's a problem with your performance, you can't fight.

Maybe the fighter is throwing punches as if the "brakes were on".  Just things that seem out of the normal are things that can be looked into before days before a fight starts.


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## CB Jones (Jun 19, 2017)

here is food for thought.

Fighters fight to put food on the table and earn a living.  At what point do you take that persons ability to make decisions for himself away and say no you are done....find something else to do?


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## JowGaWolf (Jun 19, 2017)

CB Jones said:


> here is food for thought.
> 
> Fighters fight to put food on the table and earn a living.  At what point do you take that persons ability to make decisions for himself away and say no you are done....find something else to do?


  don't know the answer to that, but being in a coma or being dead doesn't help with putting food on the table or earning a living.

I just hope improvements will be made.


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## CB Jones (Jun 19, 2017)

JowGaWolf said:


> don't know the answer to that, but being in a coma or being dead doesn't help with putting food on the table or earning a living.
> 
> I just hope improvements will be made.



Too many fighters have that "It won't ever happen to me" mentality and can't hang it up.

I didn't see the fight but I heard Roy Jones Jr looked bad in his last fight over in Russia.


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## JowGaWolf (Jun 19, 2017)

CB Jones said:


> Too many fighters have that "It won't ever happen to me" mentality and can't hang it up.
> 
> I didn't see the fight but I heard Roy Jones Jr looked bad in his last fight over in Russia.


You're right. They do have that mind set. I wish they didn't. I read an article to day speaking about having an independent investigation into the fight.  I also read a post saying that he recently had a concussion and under UFC rules he wouldn't have been allowed to fight.  I think they guy that wrote the post said that he had 2 concussions within 2 months.  Not sure how accurate that is, but if it's true the the question may also be.  How do you stop fighters from getting around the system.  If a UFC fighter can fight but goes to another sport to compete.  how would one stop that. Contact sports don't link Athlete medical history.


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## Headhunter (Jun 20, 2017)

CB Jones said:


> here is food for thought.
> 
> Fighters fight to put food on the table and earn a living.  At what point do you take that persons ability to make decisions for himself away and say no you are done....find something else to do?


Fact is fighters don't need to fight to earn money. They do it because they enjoy fighting why can't they just go get a normal job like everyone else


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## Headhunter (Jun 20, 2017)

JowGaWolf said:


> I like this idea especially since after watching Ronda Rousey's coach do the wrong thing (twice) in regards to her training.  It was clear to see from her that she shouldn't have been in her fight either trying to fight with Boxing skills.   I think the commission should be made of people from Martial Talk. I'm not saying me, but if they want to hire me, then I won't reject. lol.  But seriously, the big problems are always easy to see, it's just that no one is say.  Hey, there's a problem with your performance, you can't fight.
> 
> Maybe the fighter is throwing punches as if the "brakes were on".  Just things that seem out of the normal are things that can be looked into before days before a fight starts.


I don't think it should be members of the public as that could end up being conflict of interest with gambling etc but maybe certain referees who know their stuff like big John McCarthy, herb dean, mark Goddard etc guys who are trained and know what they're looking for.


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## kuniggety (Jun 23, 2017)

JowGaWolf said:


> I like this idea especially since after watching Ronda Rousey's coach do the wrong thing (twice) in regards to her training.  It was clear to see from her that she shouldn't have been in her fight either trying to fight with Boxing skills.   I think the commission should be made of people from Martial Talk. I'm not saying me, but if they want to hire me, then I won't reject. lol.  But seriously, the big problems are always easy to see, it's just that no one is say.  Hey, there's a problem with your performance, you can't fight..



That's a different story. Ronda Rousey was exceptionally qualified to be in the ring. Her bad strategy of throwing bombs even won her a fight before she got in the ring against some boxers who demonstrated that she should've been sticking to her judo. It didn't have anything to do with fight shape or having the skills to be in the ring... it was straight up a bad fight strategy: ignoring her strength and for some reason imagining her weakness was a strength.


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## Headhunter (Jun 23, 2017)

kuniggety said:


> That's a different story. Ronda Rousey was exceptionally qualified to be in the ring. Her bad strategy of throwing bombs even won her a fight before she got in the ring against some boxers who demonstrated that she should've been sticking to her judo. It didn't have anything to do with fight shape or having the skills to be in the ring... it was straight up a bad fight strategy: ignoring her strength and for some reason imagining her weakness was a strength.


Yeah but it would've shown her boxing is awful and at an amateur level which it really is


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