# Who is the best source for learning  Hapkido?



## mastercole (Apr 13, 2012)

Who would be the best sources for learning Hapkido in the USA?

How about in Korea?


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## Kong Soo Do (Apr 13, 2012)

mastercole said:


> Who would be the best sources for learning Hapkido in the USA?
> 
> How about in Korea?



My response here would be the same as in your similar thread;

Those that have used it extensively and successfully in real world  altercations against violent, resisting attackers.  Going further, those  that have met the above criteria and can also teach successfully the  art from a real world perspective based upon that experience.


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## Haakon (Apr 13, 2012)

There is such a wide range of versions of Hapkido I think you would have to decide what you want out of the training to determine who would be the best to teach you Hapkido. If you strictly want no nonsense self defense training you'd probably go with someone very different than someone who is looking for something more like Aikido with punches and kicks.


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## mastercole (Apr 14, 2012)

Haakon said:


> There is such a wide range of versions of Hapkido I think you would have to decide what you want out of the training to determine who would be the best to teach you Hapkido. If you strictly want no nonsense self defense training you'd probably go with someone very different than someone who is looking for something more like Aikido with punches and kicks.



Thank you for your intelligent response. It brings up even better questions.

Who in the Hapkido world, a top level teacher type, is known to have extensive experience in real world civilian self defense / street combat, whatever the correct name is, and has the reputation of teaching those real world experiences to their students who are also known to have went on to use those skills in real world civilian self defense.


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## mastercole (Apr 14, 2012)

Haakon said:


> There is such a wide range of versions of Hapkido I think you would have to decide what you want out of the training to determine who would be the best to teach you Hapkido. If you strictly want no nonsense self defense training you'd probably go with someone very different than someone who is looking for something more like Aikido with punches and kicks.



The next question. "someone very different than someone who is looking for something more like Aikido with punches and kicks" -- how do we know who is the top level teacher of this?

I mean I could end up with a quack, who is making up his own stuff, or a top level instructor.  How do I know?


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## Kong Soo Do (Apr 14, 2012)

mastercole said:


> Who in the Hapkido world, a top level teacher type, is known to have extensive experience in real world civilian self defense / street combat, whatever the correct name is, and has the reputation of teaching those real world experiences to their students who are also known to have went on to use those skills in real world civilian self defense.



I satisfy your criteria Al.  Though I don't use the Hapkido label (though I could if I wished), it is after all only a label.  If and when you're down my way I'd be happy to instruct you with whatever time permits.  I don't charge anything to anyone.  My passion is simply to teach and pass on what I know.  I can even have many of those I've taught, who have gone on to use those skills in real world altercation attend so they can share their experiences as well.  

Martial artists helping martial artists.  That's what its all about.


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## leadleg (Apr 15, 2012)

Kong Soo Do said:


> I satisfy your criteria Al.  Though I don't use the Hapkido label (though I could if I wished), it is after all only a label.  If and when you're down my way I'd be happy to instruct you with whatever time permits.  I don't charge anything to anyone.  My passion is simply to teach and pass on what I know.  I can even have many of those I've taught, who have gone on to use those skills in real world altercation attend so they can share their experiences as well.
> 
> Martial artists helping martial artists.  That's what its all about.


His first sentence says who in the Hapkido world..... you are not in or from the Hapkido world, as for Hapkido being only a label that simply is not true. Those of us that train in Hapkido know this, I suppose you do also but are trolling for trouble with Puunui. There are some well known reality based s/d instructors out there, you do not seem to be one. I also find you to be quite egotistical, but that is what I would expect from a self professed body builder. In the name Hapkido lies the clues as to what is and what is not Hapkido.


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## Kong Soo Do (Apr 15, 2012)

leadleg said:


> His first sentence says who in the Hapkido world..... you are not in or from the Hapkido world, as for Hapkido being only a label that simply is not true. Those of us that train in Hapkido know this, I suppose you do also but are trolling for trouble with Puunui. There are some well known reality based s/d instructors out there, you do not seem to be one. I also find you to be quite egotistical, but that is what I would expect from a self professed body builder. In the name Hapkido lies the clues as to what is and what is not Hapkido.



Okay, lets take a look at your statement.  First, I am in the Hapkido world and hold master ranking.  Second, I don't get hung up on labels.  Third, Puunui isn't even in this thread so how could I be trolling for him?  And by even mentioning this makes me suspicious of your actual motivation in this thread.  And in other threads in which he is participating I've been respectful and complimentary even in disagreement.  Fourth, as far as SD instructors, I am well known and teach at regional training centers as well as write articles.  Fifthly, why would you equate egotistical with body building.  That is a stereotype that isn't warranted.  I enjoy living a natural and healthy life-style and I've trained many others in PL, BB and general fitness.  How is that egotistical?  And lastly, since Al has indicated his interest in Hapkido, and since he has indicated his knowledge and experience of Hapkido is limited to novice status I have offered to help him in anyway that I am able if he wishes.  No charge, no catches, no agenda.  It is my believe that martial artists should always help other martial artists if it is within their power and ability to do so.  He made a good list of qualifications which tells me he is genuinely serious about this.  I meet those qualifications.  It isn't egotistical to say so, and that I'm here if he needs me.  That's being friendly and sincere.  If it is taken otherwise I cannot be responsible for the misconception.  

Hope this clears it up for you.


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## mastercole (Apr 15, 2012)

leadleg said:


> His first sentence says who in the Hapkido world..... you are not in or from the Hapkido world, as for Hapkido being only a label that simply is not true. Those of us that train in Hapkido know this, I suppose you do also but are trolling for trouble with Puunui. There are some well known reality based s/d instructors out there, you do not seem to be one. I also find you to be quite egotistical, but that is what I would expect from a self professed body builder. In the name Hapkido lies the clues as to what is and what is not Hapkido.



That is something I want to avoid. I have met several people who claim they train in Hapkido because they took a few seminars and practiced some wrist grabs once and never really trained with anyone of any skill in Hapkido.  That is why I asked about "the best."  Thanks for your input.


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## Kong Soo Do (Apr 15, 2012)

mastercole said:


> That is something I want to avoid. I have met several people who claim they train in Hapkido because they took a few seminars and practiced some wrist grabs once and never really trained with anyone of any skill in Hapkido.  That is why I asked about "the best."  Thanks for your input.



I think you did a good job above when you listed the criteria that you were looking for in an instructor.  Actually, it was an excellent list of criteria!  That should surely narrow the field down.  Again, I'm here if you need me and I would enjoy meeting you (or any MT member) face-to-face for a good bit of training.  And as always, if I can in return learn something from you/them it is a win-win all the way around.


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## mastercole (Apr 15, 2012)

Haakon said:


> There is such a wide range of versions of Hapkido I think you would have to decide what you want out of the training to determine who would be the best to teach you Hapkido. If you strictly want no nonsense self defense training you'd probably go with someone very different than someone who is looking for something more like Aikido with punches and kicks.



In your personal experience Haakon, is the Aikido type with punches and kicks not as serious about self defense, or it is just a longer route to take?  or something else?


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## Haakon (Apr 15, 2012)

mastercole said:


> In your personal experience Haakon, is the Aikido type with punches and kicks not as serious about self defense, or it is just a longer route to take?  or something else?



In my opinion, yes the more "aikido like" they train the less serious they are about real self defense, I covered that a bit in your other thread http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?102555-Does-Hapkido-have-a-technical-standard I think it's more a question of how the training is done than the styles themselves. I'm sure you've seen it in TKD as well, people who think they're serious about self defense training and yet are doing jump spinning crescent kicks for knife disarms.


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## Kong Soo Do (Apr 15, 2012)

I say the following carefully and with the utmost respect to you Al, but after reflection, I have to doubt your seriousness and sincerity about wanting to get Hapkido instruction.  I say this for two reasons;

First, Glenn aka puunui is a close friend of yours.  He is a 9th Dan in Hapkido under GM Ji.  You've stated you are free to travel yet have never once mentioned going to him for personal instruction.  And he's never offered.  Does he not fit the criteria you've stated?  Would he not be a great choice for a teacher?  

Secondly, so far I'm the only one meeting your stated criteria that has responded to your inquiry.  I'm the only one responding to help you achieve your stated goal(s).  Yet you don't even have the courtesy to respond to my posts?  Your under no pressure to come down, but you could at least say thank you for the offer.  It was sincerely put forth.  Your lack of respect and common courtesy here and in the other threads just indicates you're not really serious.  I've responded to you with courtesy and sincerity.  That's all I can do I suppose.


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## mastercole (Apr 15, 2012)

Haakon said:


> In my opinion, yes the more "aikido like" they train the less serious they are about real self defense, I covered that a bit in your other thread http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?102555-Does-Hapkido-have-a-technical-standard I think it's more a question of how the training is done than the styles themselves. I'm sure you've seen it in TKD as well, people who think they're serious about self defense training and yet are doing jump spinning crescent kicks for knife disarms.



Thanks.  Yes, most all martial arts I have seen have folks that think they are training for self defense. I think that most all martial arts skills can have some sort of transfer over to self defense, but that has to accompany a good healthy does of full contact training.  Like Mike Tyson said, "everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face"

Puunui already recommended anyone interested should see GM Ji directly, and I will do that. Who would you recommend Haakon?


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## puunui (Apr 18, 2012)

mastercole said:


> Who would be the best sources for learning Hapkido in the USA?



I would say for you, GM Ji, since he lives relatively close by.



mastercole said:


> How about in Korea?



In Korea, I think there are great teachers all over the place. One name that comes up in my head is GM KIM Nam Jae from the Korea Hapkido Federation. he teaches in Seoul and accepts american students.


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## shesulsa (Apr 18, 2012)

With all due respect, mastercole, I simply must call you out on this.

You are a high ranking master of Korean martial arts, you have obviously been doing this for some time. I have little doubt you understand how the partnership between student and instructor can make or break a learning relationship. Who the best teacher is about as superfluous as who is the best student. *it* *all* *depends*

Why are you asking this question?


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## puunui (Apr 18, 2012)

shesulsa said:


> Why are you asking this question?



The way I took it, he was asking for recommendations for hapkido instructors, both in the USA and in Korea. I believe he is asking about Korea based instructors because he has brought over many instructors from korea in different arts to stay at his home for extended periods of time. I believe he is thinking about the possibility of bringing a hapkido instructor from korea to stay with him. He's done it for taekkyon and also taekwondo. I know this year he has or had a taekwondo player from yongin university staying with him. He's not like your typical martial arts practitioner who goes to the dojang twice a week to get some exercise and/or lose some weight. In a lot of ways, he is one of the most hardcore people I know when it comes to learning, much more than me at this stage of the journey.


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## Gemini (Apr 18, 2012)

puunui said:


> I know this year he has or had a taekwondo player from yongin university staying with him.


Curious. He has a Yong-In graduate living with him that can't instruct him in Hapkido??


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## mastercole (Apr 18, 2012)

shesulsa said:


> With all due respect, mastercole, I simply must call you out on this.
> 
> You are a high ranking master of Korean martial arts, you have obviously been doing this for some time. I have little doubt you understand how the partnership between student and instructor can make or break a learning relationship. Who the best teacher is about as superfluous as who is the best student. *it* *all* *depends*
> 
> Why are you asking this question?



No, I don't think there is any respect at all, I think all you want is argument, which is what you get when you take your approach.

High ranking master of Korean martial arts?  Interesting. My ranking or experience in Taekwondo does not qualify me as an expert in Hapkido. I know there are people who take a few lessons, read a book, etc and suddenly they feel they are experts, big seniors and qualified to teach Hapkido, but I am not one of them.

I never asked who the best teacher is. Those are your words, not mine. So your criticism is misdirected. 

Asking Hapkido people there opinions on the best source for learning Hapkido is a valid question. They could tell me a specific teachers if they like, or it could be a particular association, or it could be a particular town in Korea that is filled with Hapkido schools, or it could be a University program in Korea that specialized in teaching novice foreigners like myself, it could be a Hapkido Sabum exchange program that sends instructor to USA, I don't know, do you know, or do you just want to accuse me of asking evil questions?  Maybe you should just skip the questions I ask if you can not offer anything other than criticism.


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## mastercole (Apr 18, 2012)

Gemini said:


> Curious. He has a Yong-In graduate living with him that can't instruct him in Hapkido??



The Yong-in graduate is an elite Taekwondo fighter. He never took Hapkido lessons, so no, he can't instruct anyone in Hapkido.

Are you a Hapkido practitioner?  If so, feel free to answer my question.


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## puunui (Apr 18, 2012)

Gemini said:


> Curious. He has a Yong-In graduate living with him that can't instruct him in Hapkido??



Not every yong in student learns hapkido, or in their case, hankido. I believe that you have one major and two minor martial arts, choosing from taekwondo, judo, kumdo, hankido and I think others. Most I believe major in judo, because yong in used to be the old Korea Judo College. Next comes taekwondo.


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## puunui (Apr 18, 2012)

Did a quick search of the yong in university webpage. http://int.yongin.ac.kr/eng/academics/ma01_judo.htm 

I see judo and taekwondo prominently listed, with their own departments. Also there is mention of taekkyon. But surprisingly no hapkido, hankido, hankumdo. I know the headquarters of the International Hankido Federation is located in yongin-shi (yong in city), but it doesn't look like hankido or hapkido is emphasized much at Yong In University.


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## mastercole (Apr 18, 2012)

puunui said:


> Did a quick search of the yong in university webpage. http://int.yongin.ac.kr/eng/academics/ma01_judo.htm
> 
> I see judo and taekwondo prominently listed, with their own departments. Also there is mention of taekkyon. But surprisingly no hapkido, hankido, hankumdo. I know the headquarters of the International Hankido Federation is located in yongin-shi (yong in city), but it doesn't look like hankido or hapkido is emphasized much at Yong In University.



He was one of five in his group of over 70 to win a full scholarship based on his competition record, with 5 knockouts at high level competitions. He did not study any other martial art. He was an A Team member and really did nothing but train to fight, he spent 4 years at Yong-in on the A Team. Training was 2 hours in the morning, 2 hours in the afternoon and 2-3 hours in the evening. He came to the USA and stayed my house the day after graduation.  He kept that same training schedule here with my sons. 

As for Taekkyon, my Taekkyon training partner at the Taekkyon Instructors Training Course in Pusan was in his second year at Yong-in's Taekkyon program. He is one of Yong-in's champion fighters. Extremely powerful, and very fast. 

When I was at Yong-in a year earlier, I watch the Yongmoodo training. I think Yongmoodo was created at Yong-in Dae.


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## IRISH KMA (Apr 18, 2012)

Yong Mu Do is an art created at Yong In.  It is a combination of mainly Tae Kwon Do, Hapkido and Yudo.  There are alot of Yong In grads in Chicago and they all are at least a 4th Dans in it.  It is spearheaded here in the states by Dr Min at UC Berkley, although he is retired from teaching.  One of my students while getting his PhD at Berkley studied it and is a third dan in it.  It is a VERY interesting art (in my humble opinion).  Master Cole if you are truely interested in learning Hapkido I will send you a PM of an instructor who is VERY talented and a tremendous teacher.


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## mastercole (Apr 18, 2012)

IRISH KMA said:


> Yong Mu Do is an art created at Yong In.  It is a combination of mainly Tae Kwon Do, Hapkido and Yudo.  There are alot of Yong In grads in Chicago and they all are at least a 4th Dans in it.  It is spearheaded here in the states by Dr Min at UC Berkley, although he is retired from teaching.  One of my students while getting his PhD at Berkley studied it and is a third dan in it.  It is a VERY interesting art (in my humble opinion).  Master Cole if you are truely interested in learning Hapkido I will send you a PM of an instructor who is VERY talented and a tremendous teacher.



I did not know that it was at UC Berkley, but I am not surprised. I know Dr. Min, he spearheaded a lot of Korean martial arts development in the USA. I remember back 10 or more years ago when UC Berkley got a $1,000,000 grant from either the WTF, or the Korean Government for their martial arts program.

Please send me the information. I must say I am surprised to get such information. My experience is that asking questions on MT about Hapkido causes a lot of anal stress, people freak out, vanish or lash out for asking questions about Hapkido. Must be some kind of secret martial art


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## IRISH KMA (Apr 18, 2012)

In the past they had a Yong Mu Do championship in the Chicago area. What I gathered was that the younger masters had issues with the very long time Dr Min students.  I have never met Dr Min but if you look in EVERY United States Grandmasters Society picture he is nearly dead center in the first row.  In regards to your statement above about Hapkido discussions on MT it reminds me of something I said when we met at Master Nathans dojang awhile back. It is my experience that some Korean martial artists act like junior high girls in that if you are not part of their group/click etc they will act in ways that would get banned from this site.  That is what I truely admire about the Hapkido instructor i'm referring to is that he does not care what your background is, korean hapkido federation, international hapkido federation, sin moo etc. All he cares about is that you get on the mat and train and are respectful to your partners.


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## mastercole (Apr 18, 2012)

IRISH KMA said:


> In the past they had a Yong Mu Do championship in the Chicago area. What I gathered was that the younger masters had issues with the very long time Dr Min students.  I have never met Dr Min but if you look in EVERY United States Grandmasters Society picture he is nearly dead center in the first row.  In regards to your statement above about Hapkido discussions on MT it reminds me of something I said when we met at Master Nathans dojang awhile back. It is my experience that some Korean martial artists act like junior high girls in that if you are not part of their group/click etc they will act in ways that would get banned from this site.  That is what I truely admire about the Hapkido instructor i'm referring to is that he does not care what your background is, korean hapkido federation, international hapkido federation, sin moo etc. All he cares about is that you get on the mat and train and are respectful to your partners.



When did we meet?  By the way, send me the info you were going to send. Thanks


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## mastercole (Apr 19, 2012)

IRISH KMA said:


> In regards to your statement above about Hapkido discussions on MT it reminds me of something I said when we met at Master Nathans dojang awhile back. It is my experience that some Korean martial artists act like junior high girls in that if you are not part of their group/click etc they will act in ways that would get banned from this site.



I don't recall anyone ever saying this at Master Doggett's, or ever having such a conversation about this site. Please, refresh my memory.


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## Gemini (Apr 19, 2012)

puunui said:


> Not every yong in student learns hapkido, or in their case, hankido. I believe that you have one major and two minor martial arts, choosing from taekwondo, judo, kumdo, hankido and I think others. Most I believe major in judo, because yong in used to be the old Korea Judo College. Next comes taekwondo.





puunui said:


> Did a quick search of the yong in university webpage. http://int.yongin.ac.kr/eng/academics/ma01_judo.htm
> 
> I see judo and taekwondo prominently listed, with their own departments. Also there is mention of taekkyon. But surprisingly no hapkido, hankido, hankumdo. I know the headquarters of the International Hankido Federation is located in yongin-shi (yong in city), but it doesn't look like hankido or hapkido is emphasized much at Yong In University.



I asked the question simply because every Yong-in graduate that I know also happens to be a master in Hapkido. I realize they are not all Hapkido masters, but there are many. I also realize the curriculum there has changed quite a bit from the KJC days, but I thought that Yong-in graduates being what they are, he might be a great source of learning for you that maybe you didn't realize. If that's not the case, that's not the case.   

To answer the other question, no, I don't have enough experience in Hapkido to offer training. Good luck in your search though.


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## mastercole (Apr 19, 2012)

Gemini said:


> I asked the question simply because every Yong-in graduate that I know also happens to be a master in Hapkido. I realize they are not all Hapkido masters, but there are many. I also realize the curriculum there has changed quite a bit from the KJC days, but I thought that Yong-in graduates being what they are, he might be a great source of learning for you that maybe you didn't realize. If that's not the case, that's not the case.
> 
> To answer the other question, no, I don't have enough experience in Hapkido to offer training. Good luck in your search though.



The majority of people who enter the Taekwondo Degree Program at Yong-in Dae study some of the other martial arts in-depth. The majority of those people (99%) are not fighters, and never fight in tournaments in Korea. The exception is Taekwondo athletes that are recruited for the Yong-in Dae Taekwondo Team. The young man we are speaking about was one of those recruited for the Yong-in Dae Team.


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## puunui (Apr 19, 2012)

Gemini said:


> I asked the question simply because every Yong-in graduate that I know also happens to be a master in Hapkido. I realize they are not all Hapkido masters, but there are many.



What has happened in the past is that yong graduates had one major art and I believe two other arts. So they would get 4th Dan in their major and 2nd Dan in two other arts when they graduated. Mostly it was judo or taekwondo as the major, mainly judo. I understand that the majority of judo teachers in korea now are alumni of yong in so yong in is dominating judo in korea. On the minor martial arts, if it was a judo major, then usually it was taekwondo and either kendo or hapkido for the minor martial arts.


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## American HKD (Apr 23, 2012)

mastercole said:


> Who would be the best sources for learning Hapkido in the USA?
> 
> How about in Korea?



There is a lot of good HKD and bad HKD in the US, Korea is no different. IMO Opinion some Sinmoo, Junk Ki Kwan, Jin Jung Kwan, KHF schools offer the best chances to learn good HKD. Watch out for HKD mixed with TKD, its a warning sign.


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