# Oh, so you do that karate stuff, I know what that's like...



## Makalakumu (Nov 16, 2013)

From the time I've opened my own dojang/dojo, I've always had to spend a lot of time marketing what we do.  I have to differentiate my dojo from other TSD and Karate dojos because we practice the bunkai and we do it with as much liveliness as is safe.  The people that I talk to on the street about my MA business either have no idea about what kinds of martial arts exist or they have a bit of training when they were kids and ended up quitting or they currently train in some other style and know a lot about certain aspects of the martial arts.

For the first group, talking about what you do is pretty easy and it's actually been easier for me to get them to come into the door.  For the second group, I try to see if they remember any of the kata they learned as a kid and then show them what the moves really were.  I've seen some eyes pop wide on many occasions.  For the third group, there are a lot of preconceived notions about karate that are just really hard to give up.  You can show them a bunkai and they will often say, "that's not karate."

So, how can the community of instructors who teach bunkai tackle this problem?  How do we tackle some of these preconceived notions so people get a better idea of what karate, with all of the appliciations being practiced, is supposed to look like?


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## dancingalone (Nov 16, 2013)

I just explain that the bulk of my karate class is spent working with a partner rather than doing 'air karate' and tournament sparring.  Most people, regardless of their background, understand very quickly as soon as they visit that our school is far from the usual strip mall fair.  I'm a little sad to admit most of the visitors prefer our TKD program, which while certainly is a bona fide offering in its own right, is more of a 'standard' experience as far as those things go.

As far as getting people to concede that what I do fits the karate moniker, I can't say that I've ever had that problem.  Goju-ryu is steeped in kata and close range fighting.  The few people that come in off the street and have some familiarity of Okinawan karate will know this.


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## DennisBreene (Nov 16, 2013)

I think you keep doing what you are doing. Public demonstrations and instruction of the details in class are both necessary.  It has been my experience that there are practitioners who appreciate forms and those who tolerate forms.  I think that any day you convert someone to appreciation of forms is good day.


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## SJON (Nov 17, 2013)

I think explicit talk of form application is often counterproductive for the "that's not Karate" reason or simply a "that's not what I was expecting" feeling on the student's part. Personally, despite being fairly well-known as a "bunseok guy", I never approach teaching by saying "here is an application of sequence 3 from XYZ form"; I teach a technique, within a combative context, and just maybe I'll add at the end something like "just like sequence 3 from ..." or "that's a possible application of this sequence".

I also think it's important to be clear on the place of form application within the broader syllabus. Obviously this will vary from style to style and from school to school. Personally I don't subscribe to the idea that "the whole art is contained within the forms", at least not for the Karate-based arts like TKD and TSD. I see the forms material more as a trapping/clinching/throwing/locking complement to the core "boxing" syllabus (in the sense of the art's percussive methods). But again, it's important to integrate the various components rather than doing a separate class on applications (unless you're doing, say, a seminar specifically intended to focus on form application).

For marketing purposes I think dancingalone's suggestion about saying that you emphasise partner work over "air karate" is a good one, as well as saying that you know your material is effective because you are constantly putting it to the test.

Best regards,

Simon


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## sopraisso (Nov 17, 2013)

dancingalone said:


> I just explain that the bulk of my karate class is spent working with a partner rather than doing 'air karate' and tournament sparring.  Most people, regardless of their background, understand very quickly as soon as they visit that our school is far from the usual strip mall fair.  I'm a little sad to admit most of the visitors prefer our TKD program, which while certainly is a bona fide offering in its own right, is more of a 'standard' experience as far as those things go.
> 
> As far as getting people to concede that what I do fits the karate moniker, I can't say that I've ever had that problem.  Goju-ryu is steeped in kata and close range fighting.  The few people that come in off the street and have some familiarity of Okinawan karate will know this.



This seems to be a very good idea, as long as one succeeds convincing the other person that working with a partner doesn't mean the students will get out of the every class with bruises all over the body. The type of person who is too afraid of hurting himself/herself has been often more of a problem to me.

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## JT_the_Ninja (Nov 19, 2013)

Anyone who says "that's not karate" when shown the application of a form doesn't know what karate is, methinks. At my school I will say there isn't a pronounced focus on application at the lower gup levels; most of the focus is teaching the students how to perform the techniques (although application is certainly not neglected, especially under my instructor). At that level, though, that's what is really needed. The four years up to earning your beginner (cho dan) rank are learning _how_ to move; after that, you can understand the _why_ a lot better, so that's where the focus on application starts to increase. Again, it's not like we don't teach application before then -- quite the contrary -- but at the lower gup levels most of the focus is on the foundations which need to become second nature first.

As far as tournament sparring goes, yeah we do that. Learning how to read your opponent and move quickly are important. We focus on it a lot more as a tournament is approaching, though, than during the rest of the year. As far as I'm concerned, if I ever had to fight someone for real, I wouldn't spar him; I'd use Tang Soo Do. _Il kyeok pil sal_...[]


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## chodancandidate (Dec 27, 2013)

What I will say is what my instructor does when visitors from other schools come to our school. Let's take for example form #1, everyone knows it, and across all the schools that I've been involved in, the form is the same.  My instructor talks about how the old Korean instructors hid everything you would ever need for self defense in the forms, and thinking outside the box in the best way to interpret it.  There is a reason why we make all of those awkward turns in forms, following and "I" or "T" pattern.  They are all fighting sequences that end with you putting your opponent on the ground!

Thinking about the problem you face with people who "know karate", all I would do is to just pick a form and break it down.  Make them see that the forms are more than they seem.  When my instructor does that, eyes pop open wide and black belts from other schools say, "Wow, I never thought of it that way."


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