# Guard Pass



## Andrew Green (Nov 23, 2005)

I am in Kyles closed guard, head down and have secured his biceps


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## Andrew Green (Nov 23, 2005)

In one motion my hands go to his throat and I jump to my feet (both feet, same time) posting off his throat... or collar bones if you like your partner.


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## Andrew Green (Nov 23, 2005)

Immediately I start punching with one hand, keeping weight on his throat with the other. If there is a pause here he has the opportunity to sweep you.


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## Andrew Green (Nov 23, 2005)

Kyle will be forced to break guard in order to defend himself, as soon as this happens I stand up straight and pop my hips forward.


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## Andrew Green (Nov 23, 2005)

And this is where the pictures make litle sense on their own...  I step over him in a kicking sort of motion with my right foot breaking out of his guard and ending up in a transition position like this.


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## Andrew Green (Nov 23, 2005)

I step again with my right foot turning to my left and placing my knee in his hip to prevent him from recovering guard as I secure my position.  It is important to note that this is one fluid motion, pausing at the previous picture will not get you passed his guard.


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## Andrew Green (Nov 23, 2005)

I then drop into and secure a side mounted position


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## Makalakumu (Nov 24, 2005)

Couldn't you just stop the crap out of your opponent as soon as you stood up?  You had a perfect opportunity without having to pass the one up one down/open guard.  Why go back down?


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## Andrew Green (Nov 24, 2005)

upnorthkyosa said:
			
		

> Couldn't you just stop the crap out of your opponent as soon as you stood up? You had a perfect opportunity without having to pass the one up one down/open guard. Why go back down?



Unless he is already hurt or has no skill in groundfighting he is most likely going to recover his guard very quickly


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## arnisador (Nov 24, 2005)

Yeah, if you stay down he'll wrap those arms around your torso and weigh you down while getting his guard secured again, for example.


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## WilliamJ (Dec 9, 2005)

If he had a good armbar he would have used it the moment you grabbed his throat. Do not extend your arms like that while in the guard. A good submissions guy would have torn it off.


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## Andrew Green (Dec 9, 2005)

No he wouldn't have.  Not unless you pause in there.  It's hard to armbar someone when you are getting punched in the face, and what you are waiting for is him to open his legs, as soon as that happens you pop your hips and stand up.  The arm bar is only possible if you are sloppy.


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## WilliamJ (Dec 9, 2005)

I have seen it happen in fights time and again. You would be better served keeping your hand off his throat and on his thigh or his hip to push his legs down. As you stand and draw back all he has to do is turn, throw a leg over your face and secure the armbar.


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## arnisador (Dec 9, 2005)

I've had good luck using the push choke when in someone's guard (assuming they're wearing a gi). It got to the point where the instructor stopped us rolling one day and showed everyone how to escape it because I kept getting people with it. You could almost hear them thinking "Oh, he can't possibly choke me from _here_" and then finding they were turning red.


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## WilliamJ (Dec 9, 2005)

Choking out beginners who don't know any better is not really proof something works. The first time I tried to escape an armbar I thought straightening my arm and sliding it out would work. It didn't.


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## Andrew Green (Dec 9, 2005)

WilliamJ said:
			
		

> I have seen it happen in fights time and again. You would be better served keeping your hand off his throat and on his thigh or his hip to push his legs down. As you stand and draw back all he has to do is turn, throw a leg over your face and secure the armbar.



Give it a try, it's not that simple   And once again, you are baiting this, you want him to unhook his legs.


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## WilliamJ (Dec 9, 2005)

My armbar is not that quick. I would just use the arm to yank you back down. Some of my training partners however, would armbar that in a heart beat. Just pointing out the risk involved in the pass, people need to be aware of it so they can stop it if they feel the guy move.


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## Andrew Green (Dec 9, 2005)

I have yet to see someone that can move from a closed guard to a arm bar faster then someone can throw a punch...

Give it a try.


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## WilliamJ (Dec 9, 2005)

I have seen it, watch Fedor v Coleman for a good example of how quickly it can happen. Alot of guys will take the punch and still get the armbar anyways.

A training partner of mine got caught that way by Marcello Monterio of ATT. He pounded the hell out of Marcello but Marcello managed to finish the armbar anyways.


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## Andrew Green (Dec 9, 2005)

Once again, give it a try.  If you do this right getting an armbar of it is very very difficult.

Remember, you are driving into him, stacking him a little, keep your head down until you start hitting, and as soon as his feet unhook pull up and pop forward.  Don't try this from your knees either.


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## WilliamJ (Dec 9, 2005)

I keep telling you I have already seen it done. If you must grab the throat maybe you should consider hooking behind the head in sort of a half can opener grip. That makes it easier to stack the guy and harder to get armbarred. But if you try that pass on a good BJJ guy I give you 50-50 odds of getting snagged in an armbar.


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## Andrew Green (Dec 9, 2005)

And I can tell by your posts that what you have done is not the same.  For one I am not grabbing the throat, but using it as a base, so grabbing the back of the head is not an option.

I'm sure you've seen guys get caught in triangles doing a arm under pass too.  But, same thing here, done right you won't get caught.  Done wrong, you probably will.

We've tested your technique, as it does appear to be a option.  But it does not work.  (ie "I'm going to do this, I want you to try and do this...") It only works if the top guy screws up.


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## arnisador (Dec 9, 2005)

Am I the only one who thinks you two would have to get on the mat and try it out to settle this argument?


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## Andrew Green (Dec 9, 2005)

It would be nice to be able to.  Guess that is the downside of internet forums


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## Kempojujutsu (Dec 9, 2005)

I have used the arm as bait before. It works great! If someone has a very good guard and you are not able to pass it. Letting them go for the arm bar is good. I have never been arm barred before while trying this technique before. If you wait till he has the arm bar on, yeah you will get summited. But if you react as soon as he opens his legs, you can easily pass the guard.


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## Eternal Beginner (Dec 9, 2005)

I suppose, as with most techniques, that this one is effective when done at the right time with the right circumstances.  I can honestly say I have seen _many_ people armbarred from that position*  and I can just as honestly say I've seen it work just as many times.

The thing to remember is that seeing the opportunity for the right technique is an extremely important part of grappling, mma, whatever.  A square peg will never fit properly in a round hole, and if the holes are temporary and constantly changing and moving it is even more imperative to identify proper technique, timing and the adaptibility to change as the circumstances change.

It is also important to remember that the higher calibre of training partner the less "concrete" these things are and the more 'fluid' they become.  No one who is experienced is going to let you stand up, post on their throat and whale away...there will be a strong counter as to any other technique in MMA.  So rather than saying a technique is wrong, it is reality that every technique has flaws and counters - that is why we keep studying, practicing, competing and training with others better than ourselves, to reduce the likelihood of being without a strategy in any scenario.

*(lots of guys will be able to withstand the shots from above and you have to remember they are well experienced in defending them...excellent example of tremendous defence is Joe Doerksen against Joe Riggs in UFC 49.  Even though he lost, Joe D. withstood tremendous aggression from the very strong Joe R.)


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## arnisador (Dec 10, 2005)

I've been armbarred from that position before...I've also toughed it out.


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