# Telegraphing the Jab



## Mush (Feb 25, 2005)

On the subject of the straight lead/jab has anyone been taught to deliver it from their hand being by your side rather than the on guard position? I have been taught this way for non telegraphic purposes. I guess this is a set up for an opening punch as someone is confronting you or as you approach them. I have not yet seen any examples of this method in any of the books, sites I have read.


----------



## rutherford (Feb 25, 2005)

Mush said:
			
		

> On the subject of the straight lead/jab has anyone been taught to deliver it from their hand being by your side rather than the on guard position? I have been taught this way for non telegraphic purposes. I guess this is a set up for an opening punch as someone is confronting you or as you approach them. I have not yet seen any examples of this method in any of the books, sites I have read.



Yes, but not for the purpose you describe. 

Do you bring yours up the centerline and then shoot it straight out?


----------



## Mush (Feb 28, 2005)

rutherford said:
			
		

> Yes, but not for the purpose you describe.
> 
> Do you bring yours up the centerline and then shoot it straight out?


Well recently my instructor has pulled me up for my forearm raising up towards the target before shooting to the target. Essentially he sees it as two movements instead of one (telegraphing what I'm about to do). As I've tried breaking down what I'm doing and getting the technique as he intends I've found it to be slower possibly because I will now have to retrain my arm to change the technique as it is.I guess I'm moving my forearm  and bending my elbow so that the fist/hand is aiming on the line of the target as quickly as possible to then snap and recoil. How he wants me to deliver it is more of a swing upwards with the arm arcing towards the target, then the punch comes. It feels like there is a lot of drag on my arm as it is moving in this upward arc. I can't get the same amount of snap in the punch. It's quite hard to descibe this sort of thing though with just words.


----------



## rutherford (Feb 28, 2005)

Mush said:
			
		

> I guess I'm moving my forearm and bending my elbow so that the fist/hand is aiming on the line of the target as quickly as possible to then snap and recoil. How he wants me to deliver it is more of a swing upwards with the arm arcing towards the target, then the punch comes. It feels like there is a lot of drag on my arm as it is moving in this upward arc. I can't get the same amount of snap in the punch. It's quite hard to descibe this sort of thing though with just words.



I tried a couple in the mirror, and I think I got what you're saying.  I noticed the same tendency to aim before throwing and that movement will telegraph your intentions.

What are you doing with your back hand?

I like to bring both up the centerline, and put the backhand to a tight guard.  But, I think our intentions are totally different and I haven't trained with a JKD person in a long time.


----------



## Mush (Feb 28, 2005)

The rear hand comes up and is raised outstretched like a straighter boang sao acting as a guard at the same time although its probably a bit behind my initial punch. I guess its a set up for an incoming punch and is probably classed a simultaneous attack/defence.


----------



## DuneViking (Feb 28, 2005)

Greetings,

I think I understand the concept, but if it is trying to avoid confrontation as I suppose, we have been exposed to a guard and back stance position with palms out and retreating, stating we don't want to fight. Once that is no longer an option, hands are in positon without appearing aggresive. Of course, perhaps I am not understanding your original thought, so please edify me if I have missed the target.


----------



## dmax999 (Feb 28, 2005)

I did this exact same thing in Wing Chun Do, which should be somewhat similar to JKD.  Had a guy so fast at this, and non telegraphic, that I would get hit by him before I noticed him moving.


----------



## JPR (Mar 1, 2005)

We practice throwing the Jab/Straight lead from where ever the lead hand is at the moment.  Obviously, some positions are easier to throw from than others.  But if you have to reset you hand position to a certain place prior to throwing the punch, then you are setting up a pattern and telegraphing your intent.  

  JPR


----------



## rutherford (Mar 1, 2005)

JPR said:
			
		

> We practice throwing the Jab/Straight lead from where ever the lead hand is at the moment.  Obviously, some positions are easier to throw from than others.  But if you have to reset you hand position to a certain place prior to throwing the punch, then you are setting up a pattern and telegraphing your intent.
> 
> JPR



If your hand is out of position for a jab / straight lead, then why not select a different tool?  It sounds like another weapon would be more effective and that you might be trying to force yourself to use inappropriate ones.


----------



## James Kovacich (Mar 1, 2005)

JPR said:
			
		

> We practice throwing the Jab/Straight lead from where ever the lead hand is at the moment.  Obviously, some positions are easier to throw from than others.  But if you have to reset you hand position to a certain place prior to throwing the punch, then you are setting up a pattern and telegraphing your intent.
> 
> JPR


I teach it the same way along with the *closest weapon to the closest target.* I think the "bold portion" will answer the question of selecting a different tool by rutherford.

If my hands are to low then I do use other tools such as "grasping both hands of the opponent as he raises them to fight.


----------



## James Kovacich (Mar 1, 2005)

rutherford said:
			
		

> If your hand is out of position for a jab / straight lead, then why not select a different tool?  It sounds like another weapon would be more effective and that you might be trying to force yourself to use inappropriate ones.


Punching from wherever your hand is at the moment does not mean that your hand is out of postion. It just means that we strike from the shortest distance possible. A straight line between point A and point B.


----------



## James Kovacich (Mar 1, 2005)

Mush said:
			
		

> On the subject of the straight lead/jab has anyone been taught to deliver it from their hand being by your side rather than the on guard position? I have been taught this way for non telegraphic purposes. I guess this is a set up for an opening punch as someone is confronting you or as you approach them. I have not yet seen any examples of this method in any of the books, sites I have read.


It kind of sounds like a sneaky pre-emptive strike. Other than a situation like that, there is no need for a your hand to be at your side while fighting. If while fighting and you end up with your hands low then I would change my attack to possibly the clich range where I am comfortable.


----------



## rutherford (Mar 2, 2005)

akja said:
			
		

> Punching from wherever your hand is at the moment does not mean that your hand is out of postion. It just means that we strike from the shortest distance possible. A straight line between point A and point B.



I was emphasizing the statement "Obviously, some positions are easier to throw from than others."

The question I try to ask myself is this:  Is the movement difficult simply because it hasn't been practiced much, or is the movement difficult because it's inappropriate?


----------



## Flatlander (Mar 2, 2005)

rutherford said:
			
		

> The question I try to ask myself is this: Is the movement difficult simply because it hasn't been practiced much, or is the movement difficult because it's inappropriate?


This is an important question. :asian:


----------



## Mush (Mar 2, 2005)

akja said:
			
		

> It kind of sounds like a sneaky pre-emptive strike. Other than a situation like that, there is no need for a your hand to be at your side while fighting. If while fighting and you end up with your hands low then I would change my attack to possibly the clich range where I am comfortable.


It's definitely an opening strike and nothing else. It's going from a non threatening stance and let's say you've got some drunken idiot giving you hassle. You are presenting no threat from your body language during the interchange. If  however he decides he thinks it's Christmas and starts winding up and steps into your personal space to give you a dig, the (quick draw) straight lead comes up with guard. You can either allow them to walk on to it or step towards them at the right time. 
Once you've delivered this strike he knows you mean business and so my hands are gonna be up after this. There's no way they're gonna be down by my side again unless I'm well out of his range.
I hope this has given a clue as to how it's meant to be used.


----------



## James Kovacich (Mar 2, 2005)

Mush said:
			
		

> It's definitely an opening strike and nothing else. It's going from a non threatening stance and let's say you've got some drunken idiot giving you hassle. You are presenting no threat from your body language during the interchange. If  however he decides he thinks it's Christmas and starts winding up and steps into your personal space to give you a dig, the (quick draw) straight lead comes up with guard. You can either allow them to walk on to it or step towards them at the right time.
> Once you've delivered this strike he knows you mean business and so my hands are gonna be up after this. There's no way they're gonna be down by my side again unless I'm well out of his range.
> I hope this has given a clue as to how it's meant to be used.


Yes, thats an instance that I would control their arms inbetween the hand and elbow. Just shoot in and grab both wrists with your hands on the outside.


----------

