# Ethical to Experiment With Students?



## dancingalone (May 25, 2010)

Suppose you had a certain theory about the effectiveness of a certain technique taught a certain way.  Do you think it is right to teach one set of students 1 way, perhaps the older way as a control, while using another set of students for the changed method?  Without telling the students what you are doing, of course.


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## terryl965 (May 25, 2010)

Sure why not, experiment is always good, I can some good coming from it. I kinda do that anyway just to try new teaching stategies.


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## Bruno@MT (May 25, 2010)

terryl965 said:


> Sure why not, experiment is always good, I can some good coming from it. I kinda do that anyway just to try new teaching stategies.



I agree, as long as there is no significant direct risk for the student. I.e. neither student should injure himself or herself as a result of executing the technique as taught.

If you have doubts about which way to best teach a technique or get a student from A to B, give it a try to see which is best. Based on the results, you can decide how to continue for future reference.


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## dancingalone (May 25, 2010)

If this is a 'traditional' style involved, does it change your answer at all?


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## Andrew Green (May 25, 2010)

I think it would be unethical if you weren't trying to improve your training methods...


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## terryl965 (May 25, 2010)

dancingalone said:


> If this is a 'traditional' style involved, does it change your answer at all?


 
No as long as all risk are under control and the techs. are given proper attention while it is being done.


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## Blindside (May 25, 2010)

If you don't try to improve your teaching and how you interpret your art, you are doing yourself and your students a disservice.

If tradition dictates one way and you have found a better way, then the tradition is useless, or perhaps simply done from a cultural perspective that is not valid for the current environment.  If that is the case, the choice to retain the cultural baggage is yours, but that will depend on your goal as an instructor.


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## harlan (May 25, 2010)

I tend to think of teaching, in and of itself, to be a 'grand experiment'; Every student and every teacher is different. And over time teachers will change, and sometimes return to, different teaching paradigms. I think the paradigm isn't so important as much as keeping faith with the people you train. Giving them what you think is best at the time, communicating your ideas as to 'what' and more importantly, the 'why' of changes.


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## Blindside (May 25, 2010)

As an example, I had a recent group class where I only had two members show up (not unfrequent, I run a very small club), but one guy had been with me for about a year and besides that celebrated his 30th anniversary in the martial arts last week.  The other guy had about 4 private lessons, and at one point, about 15 years ago had done some boxing.  I wanted to give something to both students, and on the fly managed to come up with a drill on the fly that challenged both students.  I have squirreled that drill away because it really provided a nice intro to the difficulty of reading and getting control on non-dedicated attacks.  

Was it an experiment?  Ya betcha.  

Did I tell them it was an experiment?  Nope.


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## David43515 (May 26, 2010)

The way we get traditions is by trying new things and keeping what works, so I`ve got no problem with it.

Mas Oyama was known to train different groups of fighters using different meathods and then comparing the over-all results. The only way I could see something wrong with it is if you find the way you taught group A is much better than the way you taught group B, and then after learning this you with hold the good meathod from group B.

Does that make any sense?


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## Chris Parker (May 26, 2010)

Hi,

Experimenting on students? Sure, great fun! However, not while teaching.

While teaching, my aim is to put across tried and tested methods in tried and tested ways, known to generate success, and as such the aim is to get consistent results across the board. I then experiment with seniors to search for improvements, and class is when they are passed on to the group as a whole.


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## JohnASE (Jun 25, 2010)

dancingalone said:


> If this is a 'traditional' style involved, does it change your answer at all?



Interesting point.  By teaching a traditional style, you might be implying that you are teaching using traditional methods, methods used by teachers and their disciples for milennia!  But everyone adds a little of themselves to what they teach.  How can you not?  Times change, students change, instructors _have_ to change.

Morally, I don't see a problem.  You're trying to do right by your students.  You believe your new way is better!  You might put a 1st Degree black belt in charge of a class so he can develop his teaching skills, even though you could lead the class better.  You have the right and the responsibility to develop your teaching skills as well.  Your shodan might make a mistake, and you might make a mistake, but your students and your dojo will benefit in the long run.

Go for it!  (As long as your new methods don't include cattle prods and such.)


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## Tez3 (Jun 26, 2010)

Chris Parker said:


> Hi,
> 
> Experimenting on students? Sure, great fun! However, not while teaching.
> 
> While teaching, my aim is to put across tried and tested methods in tried and tested ways, known to generate success, and as such the aim is to get consistent results across the board. I then experiment with seniors to search for improvements, and class is when they are passed on to the group as a whole.


 
I have to agree. In theory experimenting with students is fine and you could learn a lot yourself but the problem is going to be the fact that the students are paying to learn something that works and you can't teach half of them one thing and the other half something else in case one of thoses halves isn't succesful, then they have to learn the original way instead causing them to fall behind the others. 
It shouldn't matter and you should be able, as others have said to develop your teaching but in a practical world you may have students leaving or complaining if they think they are falling behind or aren't learning what they thought they should. It may depend how commerical you are or you could to tell the students what you are doing and see if they will agree to go along with it which you said you didn't want to.


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