# Jui-jitsu and Kuatsu



## frank raud

I have been collecting martial arts books for a long time, just got a copy of this book in the mail, and at first glance I am impressed by the size of this beast. 915 pages long. And yes, jui-jitsu is how it is spelled out on the cover. It is on the art(s) of Professor Kam Hock Hoe. Should keep me entertained until the next book comes in the mail(next week).


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## Buka

That looks like it's going to be a really interesting read. (I just googled it) Let us know about it.


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## JP3

At that size it should keep you occupied until 2019!


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## Tony Dismukes

I did some googling and found some history on Mr. Hoe and his art and organization, but nothing on a book with that title. Where did you find it?


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## frank raud

Tony Dismukes said:


> I did some googling and found some history on Mr. Hoe and his art and organization, but nothing on a book with that title. Where did you find it?


Online from a bookstore in Australia. Postage cost more than the book.


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## Tony Dismukes

Definitely post a review once you get through it.


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## frank raud

That's a normal sized business card leaning against the book


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## Gerry Seymour

Sounds interesting. I look forward to your review. Since I don't plan to wait until 2019 when you finish the book, I'm hoping you'll have a review of the first 200 pages, or something.


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## frank raud

Found a former student of this style of jui jitsu, who has a judo background and a is a black belt in the same style of jiu jitsu as me. Last night we started a conversation on comparisons, will be interesting to have him help explain the techniques in the book.


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## Gerry Seymour

frank raud said:


> Found a former student of this style of jui jitsu, who has a judo background and a is a black belt in the same style of jiu jitsu as me. Last night we started a conversation on comparisons, will be interesting to have him help explain the techniques in the book.


Oh, nice find! That's my favorite kind of discussion in MA.


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## frank raud

So, I haven't finished the book yet, but from what I have read and in discussion with a former student of the style, it is an interesting style. many of the throws have the obvious intention of having uke land on his head. The book does take some deciphering, as with only two pictures per throw and a short paragraph or sentence to describe the sequence, information is minimal. The book was published for the students of the style, not to attempt to teach to non students. Once you get past the section on breakfalls, each technique gets usually one page for explanation. With 915 pages, you can imagine there are a lot of techniques1


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## Gerry Seymour

frank raud said:


> So, I haven't finished the book yet, but from what I have read and in discussion with a former student of the style, it is an interesting style. many of the throws have the obvious intention of having uke land on his head. The book does take some deciphering, as with only two pictures per throw and a short paragraph or sentence to describe the sequence, information is minimal. The book was published for the students of the style, not to attempt to teach to non students. Once you get past the section on breakfalls, each technique gets usually one page for explanation. With 915 pages, you can imagine there are a lot of techniques1


Holy crap, Frank. Are they really quite different techniques, or are there a lot of variations? I know in some Japanese styles, they have distinctions of "technique" that are very different from what we use. We only have 50 "official" techniques in NGA, and maybe a dozen or so others that I teach beyond that (that doesn't include strikes and blocks, for some reason we've never called those "techniques").

Is the style similar enough to something you're familiar with to make the book reasonably intelligible, being that sparse? I'm quite interested in tracking a copy down, myself, if I might be able to follow along with a significant portion. Something new to tinker with, you know?


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## frank raud

gpseymour said:


> Holy crap, Frank. Are they really quite different techniques, or are there a lot of variations? I know in some Japanese styles, they have distinctions of "technique" that are very different from what we use. We only have 50 "official" techniques in NGA, and maybe a dozen or so others that I teach beyond that (that doesn't include strikes and blocks, for some reason we've never called those "techniques").
> 
> Is the style similar enough to something you're familiar with to make the book reasonably intelligible, being that sparse? I'm quite interested in tracking a copy down, myself, if I might be able to follow along with a significant portion. Something new to tinker with, you know?


From what I've seen so far, they are different techniques. Looking at the index, there are only a few instances where it show "technique x ver 1" and "technique x ver 2". The throwing stance seems to be fairly consistent(low and wide), so with previous knowledge of jiu jitsu, I think someone could figure at least some of it out.


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## frank raud

I'm surprised there has been no comment from @Chris Parker , this being Australian and the spelling alone usually would send him in a tizzy


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## BrendanF

frank raud said:


> I'm surprised there has been no comment from @Chris Parker , this being Australian and the spelling alone usually would send him in a tizzy



I think he's in Japan, likely busy training.


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## Chris Parker

frank raud said:


> I'm surprised there has been no comment from @Chris Parker , this being Australian and the spelling alone usually would send him in a tizzy



Ha, no... while the book may have indeed come from Australia (via a bookseller site here), it's not an Australian publication from the looks of things... Prof. Kam Hok Hoe was largely based in Malaysia and Singapore for much of his life... and, as far as the spelling, you highlight that that was the spelling used on the book in your first post, Frank... so I'm not about to correct you on your own eyes ability to see, ha! And, just as an aside, sitting next to me right now is a copy of "The Complete Kano Jiu-Jitsu [Judo]" from H. Irving Hancock and Katsukuma Higashi... dating from 1905. I've never had an issue with old texts using other transliterations, just with people continuing to use inaccurate ones now... 



BrendanF said:


> I think he's in Japan, likely busy training.



Hey Brendan,

No, not yet.... a few things forced it to be pushed back a bit, I'll be there in a month. Looking forward to it immensely! And yeah, when I'm there, I don't think I've allotted much time for things like sleeping or eating... ha!


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## BrendanF

Chris Parker said:


> Hey Brendan,
> 
> No, not yet.... a few things forced it to be pushed back a bit, I'll be there in a month. Looking forward to it immensely! And yeah, when I'm there, I don't think I've allotted much time for things like sleeping or eating... ha!



Bah - can't miss out on the eating!!  Enjoy.. I'm hoping to get over there shortly, maybe jan or feb.  Say hi to everyone in kawasaki for me!


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## oftheherd1

A google of the book title led to:

Results for 'su:Jiu-jitsu Handbooks, manuals, etc.' [WorldCat.org] - with a link that led to:

Jiu jitsu: a manual of the science. With special chapters on unarmed attack and defence for the Navy and Army and Throws, holds and truncheon work for the regular and special constabulary. (Book, 1920) [WorldCat.org] - with a link that led to:

Results for 'au:McLaglen, Leopold.' [WorldCat.org]

Apparentlhy a person who wrote more than one book.  Possibly a person who spent time in Japan and then wrote about some things he learned, but for westerners?  Looks interesting.  Do let us know what you think of the book and style, and what you learn from the practitioner you are in touch with.


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## frank raud

For those of you looking for your own copy of this book, fortune shines upon you. There is a bookseller in Australia with TWO copies available for sale. Fair warning to those in North America, they will probably want more for postage.
Jui-jitsu & Kuatsu: The Original Martial Art. by RENNIE, Graham Joseph. and, Professor Kam Hock Hoe.: Sunshine / Victoria, International Jui-Jitsu Academy, .  - The Book Searchers


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## frank raud

oftheherd1 said:


> A google of the book title led to:
> 
> Results for 'su:Jiu-jitsu Handbooks, manuals, etc.' [WorldCat.org] - with a link that led to:
> 
> Jiu jitsu: a manual of the science. With special chapters on unarmed attack and defence for the Navy and Army and Throws, holds and truncheon work for the regular and special constabulary. (Book, 1920) [WorldCat.org] - with a link that led to:
> 
> Results for 'au:McLaglen, Leopold.' [WorldCat.org]
> 
> Apparentlhy a person who wrote more than one book.  Possibly a person who spent time in Japan and then wrote about some things he learned, but for westerners?  Looks interesting.  Do let us know what you think of the book and style, and what you learn from the practitioner you are in touch with.


Aah yes, Leo McLagen, the jiu jitsu champion of the world, after he defeated Professor Kanada in a highly publicized match in British Columbia. No one seems certain where he learned his jiu jitsu, whether it was from his time in South Africa, or from a book by Uyenishi. Proof that bullshido is not something new, snake oil and martial arts have a long history.


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## Gerry Seymour

frank raud said:


> For those of you looking for your own copy of this book, fortune shines upon you. There is a bookseller in Australia with TWO copies available for sale. Fair warning to those in North America, they will probably want more for postage.
> Jui-jitsu & Kuatsu: The Original Martial Art. by RENNIE, Graham Joseph. and, Professor Kam Hock Hoe.: Sunshine / Victoria, International Jui-Jitsu Academy, .  - The Book Searchers


I think I'll wait until I find one that costs less than our monthly mortgage payment.


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## wjc

frank raud said:


> Found a former student of this style of jui jitsu, who has a judo background and a is a black belt in the same style of jiu jitsu as me. Last night we started a conversation on comparisons, will be interesting to have him help explain the techniques in the book.


Hello Frank

You don't know me, I joined the forum so I could contact you

I am a student of Master Kam's jujutsu and I'm hoping you can put me in contact with the former student of our style that you mention

We are always on the lookout for former practitioners

Please email me at wjc@iinet.net.au

I look forward to hearing from you

Bets regards
John Collett


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## Langenschwert

wjc said:


> I am a student of Master Kam's jujutsu and I'm hoping you can put me in contact with the former student of our style that you mention
> 
> We are always on the lookout for former practitioners



OT, but I'm hoping this is a Blues Brothers meets Seven Samurai kind of thing... get the old band together, defend a village, all whIle Cab Calloway stalls for time.


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## @ngel

Dear Frank,

i found just by accident that you have electronic book Jui-Jitsu & Kuatsu from Master Rennie and professor Kam.
I would be very interested if we could find some way and conditions about sharing that one.
I would be very interested in because on of my instructors was Masters Rennie student.
Just let me know so we coul deal with it by email or so

regards


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## Tony Dismukes

@ngel said:


> Dear Frank,
> 
> i found just by accident that you have electronic book Jui-Jitsu & Kuatsu from Master Rennie and professor Kam.
> I would be very interested if we could find some way and conditions about sharing that one.
> I would be very interested in because on of my instructors was Masters Rennie student.
> Just let me know so we coul deal with it by email or so
> 
> regards


I believe what Frank has is a physical hard copy of the book (and a rather substantially sized one at that.)


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## frank raud

Tony Dismukes said:


> I believe what Frank has is a physical hard copy of the book (and a rather substantially sized one at that.)


  HAD. Got offered way too much money to say no.


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## Gerry Seymour

frank raud said:


> HAD. Got offered way too much money to say no.


I’ve never had that happen. Sounds like fun.


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## @ngel

Thanks for reply


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## zopman

I am currently looking for this book so if anyone is willing to sell it or knows where I can find a hard copy then please send me a message.

Thanks


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