# Fights At the Bar



## Casey_Sutherland (Mar 2, 2005)

You've seen it in movies, and 10 to 1 you've seen it in real life. Drunk people with massive egos push people out of the way, fueled by alcohol and ready to try and impress someone. I recently, out of my control was in a barfight. Because of my training, I was able to protect myself and immobolize the person from attacking my friends or myself any further. In a bar situation what would you do? Do you fight further and risk other people joining in?  I am just curious of others peoples responses to these situations. Some food for thought

"He who hesitates Meditates in a horizontal position."


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## MJS (Mar 2, 2005)

Casey_Sutherland said:
			
		

> You've seen it in movies, and 10 to 1 you've seen it in real life. Drunk people with massive egos push people out of the way, fueled by alcohol and ready to try and impress someone. I recently, out of my control was in a barfight. Because of my training, I was able to protect myself and immobolize the person from attacking my friends or myself any further. In a bar situation what would you do? Do you fight further and risk other people joining in?  I am just curious of others peoples responses to these situations. Some food for thought
> 
> "He who hesitates Meditates in a horizontal position."



How many people are involved??  Its important to be aware of your surroundings.  Any time you're in a situation where there is the potential for mult. attackers, being aware is key.  

Are there weapons?  This is also another important thing to keep in mind.  

IMO, doing everything you possibly can to get away from the situation, should be first and foremost on the list.  I certainly would not stand around to prove something if i had the chance to make an escape.

Mike


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## Kembudo-Kai Kempoka (Mar 3, 2005)

It depends. What is your desired outcome? What is your environment? How many are there, where are they positioned, and what resources are at your disposal (that could be anything from a buddy on your side, to a bouncer, to a chair).

I've been in many a tango. I've also walked away, because analysis of the potential outcome was weighted heavily in the other guys' favor (strategically).

There is no easy answer. There never should be.

Regards,

Dr. Dave


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## bayonet (Mar 3, 2005)

Well at this point of my existance I stay away from bars but just keep in mind that in our present day and age our justice system seems to let off the morons who start fights and then lets them sue us when we open a can of lightning on him. Otherwise, all I can say is that the vast majority of violence I have seen in my life was 99% alcohol related.  But to anwser the question, walk away if possible. If you can't by all means protect yourself and those who can't protect themselves. Hopefully WE all on Martial Talk are not like the no testicle gentlemen in the pizza joint in Ohio watching a guy get his clock cleaned. I don't know about you men but I would be willing to go out on a limb here and say the majority of us would be throwing down on that street thug. Just my 3 cents


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## Paul Genge (Mar 3, 2005)

The vast majority of confrontations have some sort of build up.  If you are unable to avoid the fight by leaving you should pay attention to you surroundings. (What weapons are to hand, possible numbers of attackers, obstacles, exits etc...)  

Having done that you have to remain calm and move smoothley in a manner that is not going to cause your opponent to feel threatened.  The reason for this is that when a person squares upto you their mind is on a hair trigger between all out attack and remaining in control.  If your movement is sharp, tense or jerky they are likely to subconciously see it as a threat and lash out.  A large number of glassings happen this way.  The attacker is often holding a glass or bottle at the time of the incident and simply forgets about it.  Their mind becomes pre-occupied with other things.  When the victim moves sharpley the attacker reacts instinctivley lashing out with the bottle.

I have been in several bar style fights as a LEO.  You quickley have to learn to identify the two warring sides and take the ring leaders out of the situation.  Without them the hostility looses some of it's pace and then allows for negotiation to be used to pick up the pieces.  The diificulty arises when the people fighting decide they like the cops less than each other and they then turn on you.

Paul Genge
http://www.russianmartialart.org.uk


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## Drac (Mar 3, 2005)

Casey_Sutherland said:
			
		

> Do you fight further and risk other people joining in? I am just curious of others peoples responses to these situations. Some food for thought."


I spent 6 years as a "bouncer" and now I avoid bars..My opinion is that once you're safe and your date or friends are safe get the HELL out of there..


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## FearlessFreep (Mar 3, 2005)

Depends on the club, I suppose.   I'm a musician and I play in clubs, but most of the places I play are fairly respectable.  I play a place now that is a lounge/club in a hotel and there is no bouncer (but I guess they could call hotel security) and the crowd is always very well behaved.  It's in a hotel and we get overflow from a nearby convention center, so the people are usually there for a few drinks and some socializing.

The other places I've played have all been clubs/bars with a strong musical theme or draw so the crowd usually has an interest in the music going on and have usually been well behaved


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## Zepp (Mar 3, 2005)

I've found that the best protection is just to hang out in nicer bars or clubs, and always have some friends with you.  On the occasions when potential violence has sought me out anyways, I've always been able to diffuse the situation with words before things got out of hand.  In my experience, alcohol-related violence is easy to avoid unless a friend of yours is causing it.


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## Troy Ostapiw/Canada (Mar 3, 2005)

I belive self-preservation is the key.  It depends on your enviorment.  some good tips are stay away from bars.  If you can't stay away, don't drink too much, chances are if someone has a problem later in the night their reaction time will be delayed.  Utilize shielding and self-preservation concepts ie. verbal judo, and de-escalation through verball interaction, would be best.

Know your enviorment.  If your fighting to protect you ego,  that's a bad fight to pick.  If you have to protect your self or others then you simply do what you need to do. It would be best to be fimillar with you state laws on self-defence.

Bar fights can turn bad real fast, ego's get hurt, people get stupid, and everybody has friends at the bar.  You may beat the bad guy this week, but hell be back next week or the week after that with some of his buddies.  The whole situation is bad news.  It becomes a vicious cycle.

Concepts where you can act fast, staying on your feet would be best in a bar situation.  Maintain you mobility, preserve, and prevent violence, find a quick exit once you have reacted,and if you have to act...... make it count.
Troy


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## sgtmac_46 (Mar 3, 2005)

I tend to avoid bars no days, but if I go, I go with a couple of friends I know I can trust to watch my back. I also tend to go to bars where no one else knows me and them, so if we have to duck out the back in the case of trouble, that way no one knows my name or where I live (nothing hurts an LEO career worse than being arrested in the middle of a bar fight.)

That avoids potential law suits too. If he can't ID you, he can't sue you. If I have to fight, i'll hit fast, hit hard and get the hell out as quickly as all of us safely can. It's been a long time since i've had to fight in a bar, though, I try to avoid fights and just have a good time. 

Nothing defuses a mad drunk like a beer bottle across the teeth or the bridge of the nose, though. Speed, Surprise and Violence of Action. Then get out in the confusion. Always have an escape plan prepared with the rest of your party, and watch each others back. Three guys working together are more than three times as effective as one. There's power in unity,  and there's such thing as a fair fight in a bar.  Your buddy gets attacked, smack the attacker from broadside, grab your buddy and run.


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## Adept (Mar 4, 2005)

Zepp said:
			
		

> In my experience, alcohol-related violence is easy to avoid unless a friend of yours is causing it.


 I've found that too. The only time (since my somewhat 'boisterous' youth) that I have been unable to avoid a barfight was when a friend of mine started it when I was out of the room.


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## MJS (Mar 4, 2005)

sgtmac_46 said:
			
		

> I tend to avoid bars no days, but if I go, I go with a couple of friends I know I can trust to watch my back.



Ditto!!!  I certianly don't make it a habit to go, but as you said, I'm more comfortable knowing I have another set of eyes!

Mike


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## uglydawg (Mar 4, 2005)

I'm lucky or unlucky, I work grave so if I do go to a bar it's early in the morning and usually everbodys drinking coffee or not drunk enough to start fights. I don't go on weekend because I don't like crowded places.Joe


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## OC Kid (Mar 4, 2005)

I agree with the others who said go to nicer bars. I u dont go anymore but when I did and after I got tired of dealing with outta control drunks who like to fight... 
I went to bars that had bouncers... I had a problem with a drunken idiot..I told the bouncer.. let him deal with it..that what he gets paid for.


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## TonyM. (Mar 4, 2005)

I've been in the hospitality business since '65, bartending since 79'. (I started late) There has never been a fight in an establishment that I have been on duty bartending at. You have someone talk to a patron when they start getting loud, Shut them off or ask them to leave as the case may be. When patrons get unruly, I blame management. Overserving or allowing intoxicated people entrance are usually the root causes of altercations in bars.


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## still learning (Mar 4, 2005)

Hello, The best answer may be found in the books by "Marc,the animal,Macyoung. He was a bouncer and has lots of experience on this.

 We all have ego's and choices , No one wants to go to jail, or the hospital, morgue or injury for life. " Marc" will make you realize what a real fight is all about and how you should talk your way out of it. 

 He mentions you should not try to win a fight...but to end it as quickly as possible, and leave. Revenge gets alot of people kill/injury later. Avoid getting into fights as much as possible, AWARENESS. ...read his books

 You will realize what you are learning in your martial art classes is not enought. .....I am waking up from it! (He wrote several books-read them all!) .......Aloha

 PS After you read his books, Your thoughts on fighting will change, and you will find very few people teach how to fight and fight back- real street fighting-no rules-anything goes. Live,die or go to Jail - his books will change you!


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## 47MartialMan (Mar 6, 2005)

Being born and raised in New Orleans, Louisiana, the bars back then, and for some time, were flooded by under-agers. 

Physical confronation was the norm.

I have to agree with sgtmac_46. Avoidance is the best defense.

If one has to go to such a place, find one with a better setting. Some are just to unsavory.

BTW, this was one of the reasons why I had moved.


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## Nanalo74 (Mar 15, 2005)

The best defense is not to be there. I avoid bars and clubs like the plague when I'm not working.

I'm a bouncer, and the one thing I notice about barfights is that the guys involved are so focused on each other that they never notice the other guy's friends or the security moving in on them. That works in our favor of course, because we can get our hands on them before they know what happened. 

If you do go out drinking, don't go alone, and ALWAYS be aware of your surroundings. If the guy in that Ohio video had been more aware, he would have seen trouble coming. The way the woman was acting, my Spidey sense would have been blaring like a siren. No way the boyfriend would have gotten that close.

To be aware is to be alive.

Vic www.combatartsusa.com


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## ginshun (Mar 15, 2005)

I was actaully witness to a bar fight a few weeks ago.  Neither of the two people involved were anyone I knew, and nobody that I was there with was in any danger as far as I could see.  The technique I used during the fight was to step to the side when they almost fell on my feet, and then to walk across the room so that I was nowhere near them.


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## 47MartialMan (Mar 15, 2005)

Many bar fights, as stated are broken up LONG (emphasis) before it escalates. A bar, is usually the start up of most street confrontations. (Strret confrontations ocur if the fighter happen to escape the ckutches of the bouncers) However, a neighborhood high in crime and a sporting event adds to the numbers.

The worst bar confrontation that I had witnessed, it happened so fast, was as soon as people were walking out, shooting rang off. I think this should be considered, among other chrages, terrorist activity.


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## Bod (Mar 17, 2005)

My worst bar fight ever was a bunch of South Africans vs. a bunch of South London hardnuts. Boy did that kick off. I was working in the pub at the time. I removed all the bottles and glasses and let them have it with their fists. The Londoners won (of course) but they were in the right. Then a copper walked in and they all stopped. Just like that.

My favourite barfight ever was when two Irish drunks wrestled their way through the pub I was in. The barman took a run up, vaulted the bar between two pillars only three feet apart, landed, split them up and threw them out in one long smooth motion. Pure ballet.


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## safeeagle (Mar 26, 2005)

What I would do is leave or run if at all possible.


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## 47MartialMan (Mar 26, 2005)

Bod said:
			
		

> My worst bar fight ever was a bunch of South Africans vs. a bunch of South London hardnuts. Boy did that kick off. I was working in the pub at the time. I removed all the bottles and glasses and let them have it with their fists. The Londoners won (of course) but they were in the right. Then a copper walked in and they all stopped. Just like that.
> 
> My favourite barfight ever was when two Irish drunks wrestled their way through the pub I was in. The barman took a run up, vaulted the bar between two pillars only three feet apart, landed, split them up and threw them out in one long smooth motion. Pure ballet.


Did it really end on the ground per se'? Not counting people losing their balance or people gettin dropped by a strike.


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## Simon Curran (Mar 27, 2005)

Seen, and had to break up, a few nasty bar fights whilst working in bars in London, with glassings, headbutts and biting a "friends" throat becoming familiar to me.

I would like to say, in response to all of those who advocate finder nicer establishments, that it isn't always an option, a person's attire and/or the size of their wallet is quite often a limiting factor for choice.


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## psi_radar (Mar 28, 2005)

Like many here I don't really frequent bars anymore. Definitely the best defense is not being there. Short of that, I'd say whatever course of action you choose, make it decisive. Two examples:

Argument over possession of a pool table. The guy took my quarters and racked a new game for he and his buddy. When I protested, he got close and asked me what I'd do about it. I used what I call a verbal "stun." I whispered in his ear, "I'm going to ram this pool cue up your a**. You're going to look like a bug on a pin" and then looked him straight in the eye. He was so horrified he just walked away. Now, I wouldn't recommend this approach for every situation, but I could tell this guy was a typically cowardly guy with beer muscles and could be shut down if confronted in the proper way. I looked like an easy target since I'm relatively small and was dressed formally that evening. When I made it clear I was a real threat, and not showing off for my friends (that's why I calmly whispered to him), he wanted nothing to do with me.


Drunk friend, other angry patron/bouncers. An old buddy of mine happened to get into it with another patron on his wedding night. Yeah, great wedding. The argument was about to come to blows, the bouncers were about to put the beat down on both of them while they struggled to stay in the bar and fight. I was outside the bar, saw what was going on, darted in and managed to get ahold of my buddy in a finger lock that I worked into a hammer lock and headed him out to the parking lot, saving him a pummeling. I looked back and the bouncers were "concentrating" on the other guy. 

In both these situations I feel it was my confidence and commitment to action, whether it was words or movement, that got me and mine through unscathed.


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## searcher (Mar 28, 2005)

Assess the situation.  Decide a course of action.   Use what is needed to end it fast.   Wait on law enforcement to come.  Explain what happened.

This is the best formula I have found so far when leaving is not an option.


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## Nanalo74 (Mar 28, 2005)

psi_radar said:
			
		

> Argument over possession of a pool table. The guy took my quarters and racked a new game for he and his buddy. When I protested, he got close and asked me what I'd do about it. I used what I call a verbal "stun." I whispered in his ear, "I'm going to ram this pool cue up your a**. You're going to look like a bug on a pin" and then looked him straight in the eye. He was so horrified he just walked away. Now, I wouldn't recommend this approach for every situation, but I could tell this guy was a typically cowardly guy with beer muscles and could be shut down if confronted in the proper way. I looked like an easy target since I'm relatively small and was dressed formally that evening. When I made it clear I was a real threat, and not showing off for my friends (that's why I calmly whispered to him), he wanted nothing to do with me.


LMAO!!! That was great. I love it. Yes, many a confrontation can be ended by calmly explaining the potential severity of the situation. 



			
				psi_radar said:
			
		

> Drunk friend, other angry patron/bouncers. An old buddy of mine happened to get into it with another patron on his wedding night. Yeah, great wedding. The argument was about to come to blows, the bouncers were about to put the beat down on both of them while they struggled to stay in the bar and fight. I was outside the bar, saw what was going on, darted in and managed to get ahold of my buddy in a finger lock that I worked into a hammer lock and headed him out to the parking lot, saving him a pummeling. I looked back and the bouncers were "concentrating" on the other guy.
> 
> In both these situations I feel it was my confidence and commitment to action, whether it was words or movement, that got me and mine through unscathed.


Absolutely. Once committed there can be no hesitation. Great stories brother.

Vic www.combatartsusa.com


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## psi_radar (Mar 28, 2005)

Nanalo74 said:
			
		

> LMAO!!! ... Yes, many a confrontation can be ended by calmly explaining the potential severity of the situation...
> 
> [/url]



That's a nice way of putting it! :ultracool


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## Tony (Apr 2, 2005)

Its for this reason I tend to stay away from rough places where the clientele are undesirables who love making trouble. However there are good bars I like going to where there is the potention for fights breaking out for the most silliest fo reason and thats one of the reasons i don't like to drink, or atleast not oo much, best to have my wits about me!


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