# Competitive tournament sparring



## Mike (Jan 10, 2003)

Does anyone have any tales/stories to tell about their first experiences sparring competitively in a tournament.  There is a tournament in March in Massapequa, NY that I am thinking of entering.  I am a 41 year old yellow belt, so my age group would be against 35-41 year olds. (no cane/crutches/wheelchair comments from the youngsters please).


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## brianhunter (Jan 10, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Mike _
> *Does anyone have any tales/stories to tell about their first experiences sparring competitively in a tournament.  There is a tournament in March in Massapequa, NY that I am thinking of entering.  I am a 41 year old yellow belt, so my age group would be against 35-41 year olds. (no cane/crutches/wheelchair comments from the youngsters please). *



Well my first tourney I was about 9 or 10 and my sister and me where placed in the same division. You want to talk about foaming at the mouth! We where put on opposite ends of the brackets and still ended up fighting  My grandma did not know if she should be proud of me or cry! But it was pretty cool to place first and second with a family member  She has since sworn of karate and now acts like one of the ladies hehe man I miss the old here LOL


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## molson (Jan 10, 2003)

It was in 1993 when I was a yellow belt. I went to a small school tournament and was paired up with a guy my size. 6'2"....etc... Well we started to sparr and he hit me several times fast and hard with his hands. I got a few in, but he literally kicked my butt. They disqualified him after my face was pretty red. I was standing there with my little trophy and my eye swollen shut and him with out a mark on him.. .. I find out later that he is a golden glove champ and experienced boxer..


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## jeffkyle (Jan 10, 2003)

> _Originally posted by molson _
> *It was in 1993 when I was a yellow belt. I went to a small school tournament and was paired up with a guy my size. 6'2"....etc... Well we started to sparr and he hit me several times fast and hard with his hands. I got a few in, but he literally kicked my butt. They disqualified him after my face was pretty red. I was standing there with my little trophy and my eye swollen shut and him with out a mark on him.. .. I find out later that he is a golden glove champ and experienced boxer.. *



I bet you taught him a lesson...he won't ever try to hurt his hands on your face again.  LOL!


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## bahenlaura (Jan 10, 2003)

Mike,

Age has nothing to do with it. Eventhough experience is good to have, having courage and heart is more important. I have heard and seen few that talk alot but when it comes to putting their Ba@#s on the line, they always take back seat. They are quick to juge others and make fun of them but never do anything. You are going. That by itself says alot about your Character. The rest will come over time.
Couple of things to remember: Don't forget to wear a cup, Hit first and Hit hard. If you score first then they have to come at you and every time they do set back and look for opening.

Good Luck
Brothers in Art
Burt
 :boxing:


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## Kenpomachine (Jan 10, 2003)

I remember being there all stressed, and then suddenly relaxed somehow (don't ask me exactly how, 'cuz I don't know), and guess what? it was AWESOME I did much better.

But it usually takes me a lot to relax while being attacked.


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## Blindside (Jan 10, 2003)

Oh sure, you had to drag up the painful memories huh?   

I must have been about 11, so this would be 1983 or so.  I was a yellow belt in Isshin-ryu at the time.

I got smoked, and a black eye.  

I mostly remember how much it sucked sitting there on the sidelines with an icepack on my eye trying not to cry.

Hey, I didn't say this was an inspiring story.  

Lamont


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## Deathtrap101 (Jan 11, 2003)

Yea, my first tournament I took home gold, it felt damn good. It was last year just after i got my yellow.


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## RCastillo (Jan 11, 2003)

I remember mine all too well (1985, as a Blue Belt in TKD). After the tourney, I had trouble climbing down from my van, and the next day I was a vegetable!


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## cdhall (Jan 11, 2003)

My instructor used to have an open point tournament and it was one of the 2 or 3 I went to every year.  About my 2nd or 3rd years this was maybe my 5th tournamen and in the AM after the rules meeting I was warming up with some guys and this one dude was about 4-6" taller than me and talking about how his instructor only let him fight black belts... he was pretty big and in better shape than me and I thought he could kill me.

Naturally we were paired up in the ring.  I think he kicked me out of the ring, but I also hit him several times.  The fight went the full time and I think he won 5-3.  We clashed a lot.  He did Not run over me like I thought he could.  Once we got to the ring I just thought "get him" and tried to fight well.  

I didn't win the match but I last was the last time I was actually afraid of fighting a total stranger and I proved to myself that there is no substitute for just trying to do a good job.  Tired, sick, injured, scared, whatever.  Just do it.  I will always remember that match.

I had a similar experience a year or so later in class and that was the day I actually thought "OK, I am pretty good at this."  Very similar circumstances.  The point is that if your training is good, just go use it and don't get sidetracked by fear or some psychological issue.

It may have been at that tournament that I was able to take my usual jitters and weak knees and turn it into energy I could use in a fight.  I think it was.  I think I turned "flight" into "fight" and that was all mental as well.  I used to get very weak and loose all my energy but that doesn't happen anymore either.

A lot of it is mental.  If you train well, just stay focused and you will be fine.  And you may have some fun to boot.


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## Kalicombat (Jan 12, 2003)

Not my first one either. It happened about 6 years ago. I was an orange belt. I went to a local TKD tourney and knew I was out of place in that I was one of the only guys there that was not TKD.  I finally got my chance to fight after about a million 8 and 9 year olds did their thing.  I got in the ring with a kid of about 19 or 20. I was not very well versed on rules of point sparring, and the rules meeting was not very much help. I just knew I couldnt fight, I had to spar. Fair enough. The very first thing that happened after the referee said fight was that I charged forward, my opponent literally ran backwards, and my lead foot slipped in front of me. I was on my back, in a full split, and hadnt been touched. WOW!!!! After the blood rushed to my face, and I realized I must have looked completely stupid. I got realy angry. Anger is not a good side dish in point sparring. The rest of the match was much of the same, me going forward, my opponent retreating. Everytime I made contact, I lost a half point or a full point for either illegal strike or excessive force. At one point I caught his half speed roundhouse, picked him up and dropped him outside of the square. Now I know I looked foolish. I lost the match due to disqualification. Fair enough. I realized that this was not a bar or a parking lot. I have competed a few times since, but leave the point sparring to sportsmen.


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## Mike (Jan 12, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Kalicombat _
> [I just knew I couldnt fight, I had to spar[/B]



Point sparring does not have a whole lot to do with real fighting, but I think that sparring does still have some value.  My instructor recently devoted a class to sparring because there are a few tournaments coming up.  He emphasized speed, faking, and specific techniques to score etc. Sparring in general is a good thing because of the contact and reaction involved.


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## Seig (Jan 12, 2003)

The one that was probably one of the funniest for me was back in 1993.  I was living in Dunedin, FLorida, just outside of Clearwater.  I had driven all night from Raleigh, NC from attending a funeral.  I was standing there at 8 am, with Bloodshot eyes, sucking down coffee.  There were a bunch of people that did not know me all looking at me, pointing and laughing.  Nardo Freidman was telling them no to get cocky, or they would get hurt. They were all betting I would not make it through the preliminaries.  The first fight, I was sloppy and brutal.  I caught all kinds of hell from my compatriots that expected me to make a clean sweeop and look good at it.  By the third fight, I got my second wind.  I won the tournament and had a total of three points in 8 fights scored on me.


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## RCastillo (Jan 12, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Seig _
> *The one that was probably one of the funniest for me was back in 1993.  I was living in Dunedin, FLorida, just outside of Clearwater.  I had driven all night from Raleigh, NC from attending a funeral.  I was standing there at 8 am, with Bloodshot eyes, sucking down coffee.  There were a bunch of people that did not know me all looking at me, pointing and laughing.  Nardo Freidman was telling them no to get cocky, or they would get hurt. They were all betting I would not make it through the preliminaries.  The first fight, I was sloppy and brutal.  I caught all kinds of hell from my compatriots that expected me to make a clean sweeop and look good at it.  By the third fight, I got my second wind.  I won the tournament and had a total of three points in 8 fights scored on me. *



SHOWOFF, YOU WERE ON ROIDS!


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## ikenpo (Jan 12, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Blindside _
> *Oh sure, you had to drag up the painful memories huh?
> 
> I must have been about 11, so this would be 1983 or so.  I was a yellow belt in Isshin-ryu at the time.
> ...



Did that dude hit you on your _blindside_? 

jb:asian:


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## ikenpo (Jan 12, 2003)

First tournament...

White belt, just turned 16 yrs old back in 86. I was real nervous, of course. I didn't even know short one yet, or well enough to do it in a tournament. My fighting division was just one guy, an Asian dude named Johnny Chi of all things and after a few months of NCKKA Chinese Kenpo I was well aware of what Chi was. I just knew with a name like, he had it, and I was gonna get my butt kicked. The match was, and to this day is, a blur. But some how I won and got my first 1st place trophy. I've have since been on all sides of the spectrum, good and bad. Each a learning experience I wouldn't trade for the world. Even the time I had to get a tetanus shot after a tournament...but that's another story... 

Respects, jb:asian:


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## JDenz (Jan 12, 2003)

My first tournament I was 12 I think and it was a wrestling tournament.  I had missed the bus so my mom had to drive me there.  I remember the kids from some of the other teas laughing at me at weighin's cause I came in with my mom.   Anyways I was so scared before my first match I aolmost threw up.  I kinda blanked and lost to the kid who won the tournment 10-2 I think or something close to that.   After that I was as nervous for the rest of my matches.  I ended up pinning a few kids andtook fourth.  I got embarresed agian I think like 8-0 but I was pretty proudof the effort.  Today I still get tat same feeling in my gut but now I like it there, It means I am going to have a good day.


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## SingingTiger (Jan 12, 2003)

It sounds like most of those who have posted have had good tournament experiences, which is great.  I've only had one experience, and it was pretty bad.

I went as a spectator, to see whether or not I'd be interested in competing.  When I got to the site advertised, there was a sign taped up saying the tournament had moved to some other site.  When I got to the new site, there was a huge throng of people trying to get in.  I finally got in after an hour (and after noticing that there were twice as many people selling donuts as there were registering participants and letting spectators in).  The tournament finally got rolling at around 11am.

Although the sponsoring school was a kenpo school, it was an open tournament, and there were lots of TKD and other arts represented.  The first thing I noticed during the forms competitions for the kids was that their kiais weren't kiais like I've been taught, they were more like 5-second screaming fits.  Very annoying.

The one guy from my school who was competing with a form finally got to compete around 4pm.  Since there were no other guys in his age range (he's around 40), they had him competing against two Tai Chi practitioners.  While he executed his form the head judge was looking around and talking with administrators.  He took second place, and, as far as I was concerned (and I think as far as he was concerned as well), it was meaningless.  How do you compare a Tai Chi form to a Kenpo form (especially when you're not watching either)?

I watched a little of the point sparring for the kids (I was having dinner by the time the adults started, from what I hear), and the one thing that sticks out in my mind was the "karate dad" who stood up screaming at the referee when his son's opponent scored a point, even though he was (supposedly) out of the ring.  I figured, "that's it, I don't have any desire to compete in this kind of atmosphere."

In fairness to tournaments in general, one of the guys I was with -- who's been to and competed in many tournaments over the past 27 years -- told me that it was about the most poorly-organized and administered tournaments he'd ever been to.  But, for the time being, I'm still not interested in finding another one.

Rich


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## RCastillo (Jan 13, 2003)

> _Originally posted by JDenz _
> *My first tournament I was 12 I think and it was a wrestling tournament.  I had missed the bus so my mom had to drive me there.  I remember the kids from some of the other teas laughing at me at weighin's cause I came in with my mom.   Anyways I was so scared before my first match I aolmost threw up.  I kinda blanked and lost to the kid who won the tournment 10-2 I think or something close to that.   After that I was as nervous for the rest of my matches.  I ended up pinning a few kids andtook fourth.  I got embarresed agian I think like 8-0 but I was pretty proudof the effort.  Today I still get tat same feeling in my gut but now I like it there, It means I am going to have a good day. *



Well, yeah, having the match fixed ahead of time, and if your opponent fails to come through, there's always to slap with the Blackjack later as a reminder!:ninja:


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## cdhall (Jan 13, 2003)

> _Originally posted by SingingTiger _
> *...I figured, "that's it, I don't have any desire to compete in this kind of atmosphere."*



I'll take this opportunity to say that I think that the primary benefits you get from sparring in a tournament is 
a) to fight in a strange place
b) to fight under unfamiliar circumstances
c) to fight someone you don't know anything about

As these factors fall away the tournament experience becomes less valuable because you can practice at your studio.

For forms the major benefit is whether or not you can perform in a strange place under pressure (assuming your someone excited/agitated about being there like you might be in a test) and also to a lesser degree whether your form is good enough that someone from another system can/will admit it.  Assuming that they are watching and they have a clue.


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## jfarnsworth (Jan 13, 2003)

> _Originally posted by cdhall _
> *For forms the major benefit is whether or not you can perform in a strange place under pressure (assuming your someone excited/agitated about being there like you might be in a test) and also to a lesser degree whether your form is good enough that someone from another system can/will admit it.  Assuming that they are watching and they have a clue.  *



I agree with you here. I would also promote various types of sparring as well not just strictly point sparring. 

p.s. Doug I answered your question on the leaping crane thread.


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## cdhall (Jan 13, 2003)

> _Originally posted by jfarnsworth _
> *I agree with you here. I would also promote various types of sparring as well not just strictly point sparring.
> 
> p.s. Doug I answered your question on the leaping crane thread. *



I agree with you.  I think Bruce Lee said something like "get a lot of experience."  So I'm with you. 

And I'll go check that other thread.  I must be subscribed to it.


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## ikenpo (Jan 13, 2003)

> _Originally posted by cdhall _
> *to a lesser degree whether your form is good enough that someone from another system can/will admit it.  Assuming that they are watching and they have a clue.  *



Too a much lessor degree. I've always just tried to do my best. If your in Texas the judges don't know what they are looking at (you personally have experienced this I'm sure). So feel good within yourself that you did your best and then go kick some butt in sparring..lol.

jb:asian:


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## molson (Jan 13, 2003)

Any good tournaments in the Texas/Dallas area?


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## JDenz (Jan 13, 2003)

RC that was before the days of fixing things.  though I did win in the end with a pipe


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## jleonardusa (Jan 20, 2003)

The first major tournament I went to (aside from the small inter-studio tourneys our instructors used to organize) was the Irish nationals back in '87 some time I think when I was a yellow belt.

I was about 12 years old and was up against a kid about fourteen, and a few inches taller than I was (and I was a tall kid back then!). I remember being nervous and getting in a fighting stance, and when the ref said go, just hanging for a second to see what the other kid would do. He threw a kick or two at me and when he landed, his guard was completely open. I popped a right front kick at him, caught him right under his chin, and the poor kid was lifted off the ground, landing on the floor out cold! 

I turned around and knelt down and waited for what seemed an age until the ref called me up and disqualified me. I felt really bad for having hurt him, but I also felt like "hey it wasnt my fault he dropped his guard!".

Another time I was in an open regional tournament and got to the semi-finals. I was sparring a muay thai guy (I think) who blocked me with his elbow when I threw a right roundhouse at his head with about 30 seconds to go. I felt a shooting pain in by my instep and thought it was just badly bruised. Unbeknownst to me however, he had just fractured my foot in a couple of places. I won the fight and tried to tape it up for the final. I felt like Danny Laruso in the Karate kid and could barely walk on it, but was too stubborn to concede. I probably screwed it up even more from that. Lost the fight of course, and didnt end up going to the hospital 'till a week later when it gave way when I was jumping for joy after the last test of my 1st year college exams. That sucked.

It also kept me out of training for almost 18 months. Thats a tough break to come back from.

Moral of the story for me? Always listen to my body when its telling me its hurt ! ! ! !

(Man, the more I think of it, the more stories I can think of from my time on the tournament circuit !)

Hey, who knows, maybe well have more stories to share from Franks tournament next month ! ! !  

James Leonard


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