# Different between Wrestling Style



## MingTheMerciless (Aug 15, 2007)

I&#12288;took&#12288;BJJ&#12288;,&#12288;I&#12288;am&#12288;also&#12288;interested&#12288;in&#12288;&#65359;&#65364;&#65352;&#65349;&#65362;&#12288;&#65367;&#65362;&#65349;&#65363;&#65364;&#65356;&#65353;&#65358;&#65351;&#12288;&#65363;&#65364;&#65356;&#65369;&#65349;&#12288;&#65363;&#65365;&#65347;&#65352;&#12288;&#65345;&#65363;&#12288;Greco&#12288;Roman&#12288;,&#12288;Amateur&#12288;and&#12288;Freestyle&#12288;Wrestling&#12288;,&#12288;I&#12288;am&#12288;wondering&#12288;what&#12288;is&#12288;their&#12288;differences&#12288;between&#12288;one&#12288;another&#12288;?&#12288;


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## Freestyler777 (Aug 16, 2007)

Hey now, I'm the expert on chatting about wrestling.

There are two international styles of sport wrestling.  One is Freestyle (FS) and the other is Greco-Roman (GR).  They are essentially the same techniques, with one difference, in GR you cannot grab the legs, use the legs to trip or tackle the opponent, or secure the body with the legs.  GR is sometimes called 'classic' style, because it is believed to be similar to ancient greek wrestling (which isn't exactly true).

In freestyle (FS) you can use both the upper and lower body to attack and defend.  That means you can tackle and trip as well as do an upper-body throw.  

Greco focuses on throws and wrestling in the standing position, freestyle focuses on 'shooting' or 'tackling' and the counters to tackles.  In Greco, people stand more upright, since there is no danger of being tackled, and in freestyle they crouch more, and tie up with the arms to defend against being taken down.

American Folkstyle, or Collegiate, or Scholastic, Wrestling is what I consider the best style and is a uniquely american sport.  It is essentially like freestyle, because both upper and lower body takedowns are allowed, but the mat wrestling is different.  

In Collegiate, the top man gets points for 'riding' or being on top, the more time, the more points.  The bottom man can get points for escaping to neutral (standing up facing the opponent)  or reversing (going from bottom to top).  This point system encourages very active wrestling on the mat, as opposed to FS and GR, where the defensive (bottom) wrestler basically spread his arms and legs and waits for the referee to intervene.  In FS and GR, you are only allowed about 15-20 seconds of mat wrestling, before the referee stands you up again.

So in summary,Greco Roman is upperbody wrestling, freestyle is lower body wrestling, and American Folkstyle (collegiate) is a variant of freestyle where mat wrestling is emphasized.  

I need some iced coffee now, I'm exhausted.


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## MingTheMerciless (Aug 16, 2007)

So how different are they going to be from BJJ?


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## Freestyler777 (Aug 16, 2007)

I would think they are complete opposites!

In BJJ, the objective is to get the opponent to the mat and make them submit.  Only submission ends the fight, pins don't.

In wresting, the objective is to takedown the opponent, and then pin his upper shoulders to the mat.  There are NO SUBMISSIONS in freestyle, folkstyle, or Greco Roman.  

In BJJ, you can be in any position you want, for as long as you want, including on your back.

In wrestling, you cannot be on your back at all, or you are pinned!

Why do wrestling then?  Because wrestlers excel at takedowns, stand-up grappling, and control.  

I definately envision that wrestling and bjj could be effective together.  A strong wrestler who knows the chokes of BJJ is very dangerous.


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## MingTheMerciless (Aug 16, 2007)

Wow&#12288;,&#12288;you&#12288;really&#12288;sound&#12288;knowledgable&#12288;because&#12288;I&#12288;already&#12288;have&#12288;a&#12288;black&#12288;belt&#12288;in&#12288;BJJ&#12288;,I&#12288;often&#12288;heard&#12288;that&#12288;most&#12288;people&#12288;tend&#12288;to&#12288;cross-train&#12288;in&#12288;BJJ ( for Submission )&#12288;,&#12288;Wrestling&#12288;and&#12288;Kickboxing&#12288;.&#12288;So&#12288;I&#12288;knew&#12288;of&#12288;a&#12288;school&#12288;in&#12288;Toronto &#12288;http://www.torontobjj.com/schedule.htm , cause I am wondering whether this school can cover up my BJJ and Jun Fan Kickboxing weakness .

But then again , BJJ also have stand up grappling ( My school dun really do much takedown ) , well in the form of sweep , that tend to require you to grab the gi ( sweep tend to be effective against kicker because they tend to lose balance on their feet as they kick )  , throw and very limited takedown ( that was the reason why I want to do Wrestling as well ) .

So umm , in Grappling term , what do you mean by Control ? But for the stand up Grappling wise , I think that Wrestling Stand Grappling Technique is better . And I also dun really feel the need to learn Sambo Wrestling because my BJJ instructor also happen to be Sambo teacher as well .

But then thanks for informing me though because I never know that BJJ can be that different from Wrestling . So how about Pankrahtion


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## Freestyler777 (Aug 16, 2007)

Sombo is considered the 3rd international wrestling style, although it is not yet an Olympic event.  Your BJJ instructor, if he is also a Sombo wrestler, can teach you the takedowns you need.

The downside to wrestling in America is that the majority of people who do it are young people in the high schools and colleges/universities.  There aren't many amateur wrestling clubs outside the school system.  

If you want more takedown instruction beyond your BJJ/Sombo instructor, I would reccommend finding a Judo school where the instructor used to be a wrestler.


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## Freestyler777 (Aug 16, 2007)

Wrestlers are good at control when they train jiu-jitsu, because the main focus of the sport of wrestling is keeping the bottom man down and turning his back to the mat.  Wrestlers are the ones who introduced ground n pound to the MMA events in America.  It was a very simple theory: tackle, get any kind of control position, and hit the guy on bottom.  The Wrestlers didn't really know all the submissions that BJJ guys specialize in.

Pankration was the ancient version of MMA.  It was basically everything allowed kind of competition.


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## MingTheMerciless (Aug 16, 2007)

My Intructor tend to place heavy emphasis on integrating many different kind of Leg lock from Sambo to BJJ .

But then which type of Wrestling ( Greco-Roman , Freestyle and others ) will go together nicely together with my BJJ and Sambo training ? I do found some of this wrestlign school http://www.angelfire.com/biz/wrestlingschool/ http://www.dorgan.zoomshare.com/0.html

But then I dun feel like looking for a Judo intructor ( I have BJJ and Sambo and both have their root from Judo , so dun really feel the need to learn them )

how about Systema ( no idea what is it , heard that it is a grappling art , wonder is it the same as wrestling ) ? I do find one in Toronto


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## Freestyler777 (Aug 16, 2007)

I still think judo is best for you.  Wrestling is done without a jacket, and the matwork is very different from wrestling than BJJ/Sombo.  Judo may have been the parent art of BJJ and Sombo, but it is much different now.  Judo is about throwing and pinning, while BJJ/Sombo is more about the submissions.  Sombo is a very well rounded system, having both excellent takedowns and submissions, so once again, if your teacher doesn't want to show you sombo takedowns, i suggest a judo teacher who used to wrestle.  He'll know how to apply gi takedowns to BJJ.


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## MingTheMerciless (Aug 17, 2007)

My teacher also teach judo as he tend to include the whole judo syllybus into my BJJ and actually , And I often train without a gi in BJJ . That why I want to pick up a few wrestling skill before I join vale tudo/mma courses that is located at my club ( which I tend to do most of my gym workout , BJJ and Jun Fan Kickboxing/Kali/JKD/Boxing )


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## Freestyler777 (Aug 17, 2007)

That's a different story then.  If you are training for MMA, then wrestling takedowns would help a great deal, since MMA is without a gi.  If you have the option, I would say go with Greco, or in general, upperbody wrestling.  You rarely see 'shoots' in the MMA anymore, because you might get kneed in the face if you shoot low for the legs!  The clinch is a vital aspect of MMA and Greco does the clinch better than any other sport, even judo.

You must be very forutnate to live in a part of canada that has adult wrestling clubs available for martial artists.  I know of only two in NYC, and they are far from my home on long island.


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## MingTheMerciless (Aug 17, 2007)

Because back in my high school and technical college in hong kong , sadly , we dun have any greco roman , amateur wrestling , freestyle wrestling back there . ( I was lucky to have one BJJ school back there ) . And at least American and Canadian have Wrestling Programme in their High School , College ( pursuing a diploma ) and University . So what is the most useful and widely used Greco Roman technique for MMA ?


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## Freestyler777 (Aug 17, 2007)

I think the essential thing is to clinch after a number of strikes, get the bodylock/bearhug, and lift the guy off the ground.  Once he is off the ground, you can unceremoniously dump him on the ground.  And then the jiu-jitsu battle begins.

I haven't trained MMA yet, but I will one day.  Greco is much more applicable than any other kind of takedowns, because it is no-gi and centered on the upperbody, not the lower body.

You may say, how do I know if I never fought yet?  Well, I see Randy Cotoure, Matt Lindland, even Matt Serra, a reknowned BJJ guy, using greco techniques in MMA.  Cotoure was a GR medalist at the Pan Ams, and Matt Lindland was a World Silver Medalist in GR at 73kgs.  Matt Serra was the first American black belt in BJJ.  All three use similar takedowns, even though Serra is not a wrestler.  the point is, Greco is much more applicable to MMA.


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## Freestyler777 (Aug 17, 2007)

get the bodylock/bearhug, meaning both arms around the opponent's midsection, lift and swing him down.  Matt Lindland and Randy Coutoure do it all the time.  Both have signficant Greco backgrounds.  

Matt Serra also uses many greco takedowns, and he is not a wrestler!  He is the first american black belt in bjj.  I don't know who taught him takedowns, but he is pretty darn good.


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## MingTheMerciless (Aug 18, 2007)

How long does it take a person to master greco roman wrestling .


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## Freestyler777 (Aug 18, 2007)

That is a tough question.  A lot of Greco is instinctive and natural, but then again there is alot of new things to learn, like back-arching and proper lifting.  I can't say.


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## MingTheMerciless (Aug 18, 2007)

It is alright though , some question can be complicated to the most expirience and best individual , but then again thanks for sharing your expierience with me and being patient and eager in answering any of my question . I decided to take my Greco Roman training , this week , which is on the 24th august .


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## cohenp (Nov 12, 2007)

I think someone could become adept enough in any style of wrestling to do well in MMA in about five or so years. One of the MMA guys I trained was a dominate wrestler in mma and he had wrestled for about six or seven seasons before fighting mma. You have to remember that a wrestling season is only like half a year tops if you're wrestling at a very high level. I think someone could become very familar and moderately successful as an ameteur wrestler in two or three seasons of wrestling. I started MMA after my third season of wrestling and could keep up with allot of the non wrestlers based on my wrestling skills. 

In my opinion freestyle wrestling transfers better to MMA though. Freestyle wrestling still has a large amount of clinch work, not as much as greco roman but still allot of emphasis. Shooting I think is a still a big part of mma it's just not as clear and defined as it is in wrestling. Another big part of freestyle wrestling is holding you opponent down and working on the ground. That ability to be heavy on top is a huge part of MMA. 

The other thing is body awareness. In freestyle wrestling a big part of the warm up is gymnastics and excercises that are designed to increase body awareness.  That ability to keep track of your body in space as you're rolling is also a huge part of MMA in my opinion too.


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## Tyler1 (Dec 2, 2007)

MingTheMerciless said:


> How long does it take a person to master greco roman wrestling .


 
It would take a long time to master it.

I entered a judo club after folkstyle wrestling through highschool and coaching it, I found that I had to change lots of techniques to fit into the sport.  I would shoot all the time, this ended with me getting chocked, I was constantly getting leg sweeped until I figured out what I was doing wrong with my feet, and in folkstyle wresling like judo you can get pinned, but if i was in the down position in judo I had to try real hard not to stand up, in greco and freestlye you don't want to stand up and escape, I learned that the hard way also, I got slammed.


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## JadeDragon3 (Feb 6, 2008)

Freestyler777 said:


> Hey now, I'm the expert on chatting about wrestling.
> 
> There are two international styles of sport wrestling. One is Freestyle (FS) and the other is Greco-Roman (GR). They are essentially the same techniques, with one difference, *in GR you cannot grab the legs, use the legs to trip or tackle the opponent*, or secure the body with the legs. GR is sometimes called 'classic' style, because it is believed to be similar to ancient greek wrestling (which isn't exactly true).
> 
> ...


 
What I have underlined above is not true. *You* *can* *grab the legs in Greco Roman*. If the underlined statements above were true then why is it that you can do single leg takedowns and double leg takedowns, fireman's carry, and other takedowns in Greco Roman wrestling. However, it is true that you can not do throws such as Suplex's (sp?) in Greco. Throws like that are for Freestyle wrestling. 

Wrestling is going to be very different the BJJ. In BJJ you can stay on your back as long as you want, in wrestling you don't want to be on your back because your opponent will get points for the certain amount of time he keeps your back exposed to the mat. And if he has both shoulder blades on the mat he will pin you and win the match.


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