# Another "testing"



## astrobiologist (Apr 13, 2009)

I was at a bar the other night.  This one guy started getting loud and a little out of control.  I was wearing a t-shirt with our school's logo "Red Lion Karate" on the front.  The loud guy saw it and of course started prodding at me.  I conversed with him a little, maintaining a prepared state in case he decided to try something.  We talked about MMA and martial arts a little.  

He asked about my rank, so I told him.  He then started saying things like "well I know you can kick my..." and "you must think you're pretty tough", as we all know these are obvious signs of a possible agressor.  I maintained my humility and said that even the most prepared martial artists can get punched in the face.  He decided to test me, fortunately it was not in the most violent way.  He tried to fake me with a backfist switched to an elbow strike to the face.  I caught both, trapped his arm, jacked him against the wall, and stuck my thumb in the side of his throat softly.  Normally, I would just have deflected the strike(s) and maintained the advantageous position, but I could feel that the guy turned passive as soon as his strikes missed.  The bar tender had seen what happened and kind of laughed a little.  The bouncer's didn't seem to care.  The guy was "my best friend" after the testing.  He bought me few shots and stayed out of my way until I left.

I feel okay with what happened.  Could have been worse.  The guy may have really continued his attack beyond just a test.

Some may think that even responding to him in the first place was the test.  I don't think so.  I am hesitant to approach a situation I can avoid, but at the same time I like meeting new people and I will not be deterred from enjoying life due to fear.

Anyone else get "tested" from time to time by people who are ignorant to how the martial arts truly work?  How do you respond?


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## Aiki Lee (Apr 13, 2009)

1st, good job on both emitting a proper response to the situation an being able to protect yourself without causeing serious injury.

I've been tested, but not since high school. There have been a few aquantances who's behavior borderlined on bully behavior. They'ed kick at me or jump on my back and I'd jam their leg or throw them off. I found it irritating that they'd try o test me but then satisfying when I knocked them on thier butts.


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## just2kicku (Apr 13, 2009)

Personally, I myself wouldn't have worn a shirt from my dojo as an advertisement. It's like being in a grocery store and seeing someone in there full gi with there BB on there waist. I just gotta laugh. I don't believe in tipping my hand and letting anyone know what I know or don't know till there is a need for it. 

I myself if wearing the shirt probably would have said that a friend gave it to me from his dojo. I don't really need that kind of headache when I'm out of someone wanting to challenge me. There are challengers out there, and some are pretty good. Don't have the time for that kind of BS. 

Just my two cents.


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## Makalakumu (Apr 13, 2009)

Remember the Dao Te Ching on this one, "Be like a fish underwater.  Never show your power to anyone."

That situation was escalated by your reaction.  The other guy decided to end it.  Yeah it could have been worse, but it wasn't.  Just a little friendly advice as I have seen almost the exact situation turn into a bar fight.

Oh yeah, wearing the karate shirt out drinking is a good way to have to your karate tested.  LOL!


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## jarrod (Apr 13, 2009)

well handled, i'd say.  depending on what kind of bar you were in, i'm assuming it would have been broken up quickly had it gotten out of hand.  i've got various MA shirts that i wear but they've never gotten me anything but some polite inquiries, which is part of the point of a dojo shirt.  



> Some may think that even responding to him in the first place was the test. I don't think so. I am hesitant to approach a situation I can avoid, but at the same time I like meeting new people and I will not be deterred from enjoying life due to fear.


right on.

jf


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## fangjian (Apr 13, 2009)

Hahahaha. What a jerk.  I'm glad you handled it so well.  I try to wear my school shirt as often as possible just to spark interest and maybe get some new students.  I forgot about those kinds of reactions though.


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## astrobiologist (Apr 13, 2009)

I guess I really hadn't considered how the shirt would definitely make me a target.  That's the beauty of MartialTalk, we get to hear a lot of views on an issue which can aid us in our own determinancy. 

I'm not sure if I'll wear the dojo shirt to a bar again.  It probably is better to avoid another situation, especially if I'm planning on drinking.

The thing is though that this could happen just about anywhere, not just in a bar.  I've had these "testings" from time to time in my life when others had discovered my martial arts background.  With MMA getting so popular these days it seems to happen now more than ever.  When they just talk crap, I really don't care.  But when they actually try to physically test me, I don't mind putting 'em down.


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## Makalakumu (Apr 13, 2009)

astrobiologist said:


> I guess I really hadn't considered how the shirt would definitely make me a target.  That's the beauty of MartialTalk, we get to hear a lot of views on an issue which can aid us in our own determinancy.
> 
> I'm not sure if I'll wear the dojo shirt to a bar again.  It probably is better to avoid another situation, especially if I'm planning on drinking.
> 
> The thing is though that this could happen just about anywhere, not just in a bar.  I've had these "testings" from time to time in my life when others had discovered my martial arts background.  With MMA getting so popular these days it seems to happen now more than ever.  When they just talk crap, I really don't care.  But when they actually try to physically test me, I don't mind putting 'em down.



The MMA scene is very strong in Hawaii and they have a strong fight culture to boot.  Something about the native blood, you can't hardly go to a beach without some sort of testosteroni breaking out.

Throw a little alcohol in the mix and the pot comes to a boil quickly!


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## astrobiologist (Apr 13, 2009)

maunakumu said:


> The MMA scene is very strong in Hawaii and they have a strong fight culture to boot. Something about the native blood, you can't hardly go to a beach without some sort of testosteroni breaking out.
> 
> Throw a little alcohol in the mix and the pot comes to a boil quickly!


 
Ya, I've heard that.  I surf (or try to at least) and there's this big buzz in the surf communities in the states that Hawaii locals hate out-of-towners to the point where some crazy fights have erupted just because someone unknown was riding a Hawaiin wave.  Kind of scary...


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## Makalakumu (Apr 13, 2009)

astrobiologist said:


> Ya, I've heard that.  I surf (or try to at least) and there's this big buzz in the surf communities in the states that Hawaii locals hate out-of-towners to the point where some crazy fights have erupted just because someone unknown was riding a Hawaiin wave.  Kind of scary...



I surf too.  This is true, btw.  You can get your *** beat for riding the wrong wave out here.  You can get your *** beat surfing for any number of things.  Paddle to the line-up wrong = *** beating.  Drop in down shoulder on a guy = *** beating.  Accidently stuff someone in a tube = *** beating.  

You have to be on your toes.  Most people are just fine, but all it takes is a few aggressive surfers to start ****...that's when I usually find somewhere a little more friendly.

And then there is Da Hui and some of the other Surf Gangs.  The surf world is crazy sometimes.

Anyway, the jujutsu dojo I am trying out tonight has a list of techniques that are meant to be practiced in the water.  These are specifically designed to work in an aqueous self defense situation.  That will be interesting if I get to learn it.

Surfing (and drinking) is all about attitude.  If you aren't looking for a fight, aren't tough guy advertising, and are determined not to fight, its pretty hard to get into a fight.  Possible, but not likely.  I'll take my chances on the safe side.


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## MJS (Apr 13, 2009)

just2kicku said:


> Personally, I myself wouldn't have worn a shirt from my dojo as an advertisement. It's like being in a grocery store and seeing someone in there full gi with there BB on there waist. I just gotta laugh. I don't believe in tipping my hand and letting anyone know what I know or don't know till there is a need for it.
> 
> I myself if wearing the shirt probably would have said that a friend gave it to me from his dojo. I don't really need that kind of headache when I'm out of someone wanting to challenge me. There are challengers out there, and some are pretty good. Don't have the time for that kind of BS.
> 
> Just my two cents.


 
I gotta agree with this post!!  For this reason, I'm fortunate and happy to say that I havent been in the same situation as the OP.  I have however, had to deal with people that I know, who know that I train.  I tend to change the subject when the MAs come up.


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## Gordon Nore (Apr 13, 2009)

On the one hand, the other fella may have seen the shirt as a provocation, but for cryin' out loud, it's just a school shirt from what I gather. If the OP was wearing a shirt that said, "I'm the meanest frigger in here, and I can kick all yer all butts," that would be something else.

I think you did well, sir. Didn't get down to his level.


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## just2kicku (Apr 13, 2009)

> "I'm the meanest frigger in here, and I can kick all yer all butts," [/qoute]
> 
> 
> Hey Gordon, how did you know that was the shirt I wear? Haha


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## Deaf Smith (Apr 13, 2009)

Yes I would not have worn a "Red Lion Karate" shirt. All you really did was let others know you have some skill. There are those that don't care. Those that would strike up an conversation cause they are in a martial art. And there are those that would test you (or blind side you) just to show you up in front of their friends.

That is why I don't wear any martial art shirt, nor IDPA or NRA or even a bumper sticker with anything like that. My car, and myself, are non-descript.

That way anything I do will be a suprise.

Deaf


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## searcher (Apr 13, 2009)

I avoid wearing anything that gives my skillset away, especially when I go out with my wife.   DS makes one more point, on the IDPA/IPSC gear.    I have a Glock sweatshirt I wear when I workout(my gym is VERY gun friendly) and it stays home when I am out and armed.

Nothing says that you are carrying like a gun manufacturers shirt.


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## Aikicomp (Apr 14, 2009)

astrobiologist said:


> *I was at a bar the other night*. This one guy started getting loud and a little out of control. *I was wearing a t-shirt with our school's logo "Red Lion Karate" on the front.*
> 
> 1st mistake
> 
> ...


 
You got the hat trick. You got yourself into a situation that you could have avoided in the first place.

Yes, I wore my clubs t-shirt *once* and it was like a magnet. I got a few prospects who were genuinely interested in taking classes but, I also got "stupids" who just wanted to talk crap. The response I gave the "stupids" was "No, no I don't know Ju-Jitsu, it's my kids club and I'm trying to help enrollment." Ego's intact and satisfied they went away. 

Wearing a MA T-shirt is like ringing the test me bell for every idiot with an ax or ego to grind. You were lucky he did not escalate the situation and have it turn into something bad, I'm not saying you couldn't have beat him (from your desription you probably could) however, if it did escalate and you injured him some witnesses might say you were looking for a fight wearing that shirt (even though you weren't). Stranger things have happened.

Better not to advertise. The possible losses out-weight the possible gains.

Michael


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## Aiki Lee (Apr 14, 2009)

I personally don't feel the need to lie to people if they seem like "tough guys" just itching for a fight. I like my martial arts shirts and virtually my entire casual attire is made entirely of MA related t-shirts.

If someone asked me if I thought I was pretty tough I'd say something along the lines of, "Nah, I'm just a beginner." Hopefully they'll leave me alone, if not then I'll have to deal with it.

Aikicomp said, "Wearing a MA T-shirt is like ringing the test me bell for every idiot with an ax or ego to grind. You were lucky he did not escalate the situation and have it turn into something bad, I'm not saying you couldn't have beat him (from your desription you probably could) however, if it did escalate and you injured him some witnesses might say you were looking for a fight wearing that shirt (even though you weren't). Stranger things have happened.

Better not to advertise. The possible losses out-weight the possible gains."

My approach is that I like MA and want others to get invloved with them. I've had people come up to me and inquire about what I do and then enroll, so I've had more positive experiences than negative concerning this.
Also, saying someone was asking for a fight by wearing a martial arts shirt is kind of akin to saying a woman was asking to be sexually assaulted by wearing a provacative outfit isn't it?
Even if  if a shirt provokes a man to fight then he was likely looking for a fight to begin with and I'd rather have someone come after me than a person who is less capable of defending themselves.


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## Aikicomp (Apr 15, 2009)

Himura Kenshin said:


> I personally don't feel the need to lie to people if they seem like "tough guys" just itching for a fight. I like my martial arts shirts and virtually my entire casual attire is made entirely of MA related t-shirts.
> 
> If someone asked me if I thought I was pretty tough I'd say something along the lines of, "Nah, I'm just a beginner." Hopefully they'll leave me alone, if not then I'll have to deal with it.
> 
> ...


 

HK, I did not say I thought it was asking for a fight. I said that some witnesses (if it came to that) may assume that they were looking for a fight.

Michael


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## Bruno@MT (Apr 15, 2009)

Wearing MA t-shirt attracts nutcases.
Despite the fact that this is stupid and in no way your fault, it is reality.

By the same token, a woman walking around in a bikini swimsuit, alone, in the middle of the night in a bad neighborhood has a high likelihood of being raped.
This is stupid, unfair, and in no way the fault of the woman, but reality just the same.

Things like this can be avoided, and this is part of self defense as much as fighting skills. I think that this is what *aikicomp* was referring to.
Self defense is a total concept that goes beyond fighting skills.


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## Carol (Apr 15, 2009)

Astro, congrats on getting through the situation without a worse outcome.  

Personally I have several school or system T-shirts, as well as a couple of gear bags.  I respect the notion of not wanting to hint at one's secrets although for me there was at least one time when I was able to use the advertising to get myself out of a tense situation when I was on travel.

I wouldn't wear one to a bar myself, and I'm careful about wearing them on my midnight commute home (I prefer to do so when they are easily covered up by a sweatshirt or jacket).  Overall though, I've had some very rewarding conversations about martial arts when I was out shopping, at the chiropractor, or even at work.  

I played music professionally for two years and semi-professionally for several years after when I was in my 20s.  Because of that, I've been in a lot of bars, clubs, and restaurants.  Unfortunately I've seen more than a few people flip out when they have been drinking (sometimes that lead to an physical fight, sometimes not) and at least to my eyes...its happened for reasons sillier than two dudes hanging out talking about fights and fighting.

There may not be a right or wrong answer regarding wearing school T-shirts and the like...I think its really up to the individual.


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## jarrod (Apr 15, 2009)

i wanted to say a few words about this situation & others like it, & everyone's typical responses to them.

it's useful to sit back & analyze the pros & cons of all the variables in these kinds of situations, but astro had all kinds of information available to him that we don't have, & one of the most important bits was his own intuition.  for instance, he knows what type of bar he was in, he had a better read of the antagonists physical conditioning, he had a better read as to whether or not the guy was drunk enough to even operate, he knows better than us how reliable security was at the bar, how often fights break out there, whether or not the guy had friends with him, how much he had had to drink himself...on & on.  in short, yes, you can live your life as if every decision is a tactical one, & if that gives you a sense of peace that is fine.  myself, i take calculated risks on a regular basis just like i suspect everyone does.  so like i said, while it is a useful mental exercise to pick apart these situations, at the end of the day it was astro there dealing with the guy, & i think he did well.

jf


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## geezer (Apr 18, 2009)

Bruno@MT said:


> Wearing MA t-shirt attracts nutcases.
> Despite the fact that this is stupid and in no way your fault, it is reality.


 
Astro is taking a lot of flack for wearing his MA T-shirt, but the real problem is _where_ you wear a shirt like that. I wear my school's T-shirt to a local sandwich shop where I eat on the way to my school for evening practice. The sandwich shop is frequented by TKD practitioners from another school located nearby. I've almost never had comments, and on the few occasions when somebodey did take notice, it led to a friendly conversation. 

Now you wear the same shirt to a bar or party-scene frequented by young males with a bit too much alcohol and testosterone in their system for their own good, and the reaction to your shirt can be markedly different. And it's not just the alcohol, it's the whole scene. I mean why do you think they have _bouncers?_


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## chinto (Apr 19, 2009)

LOL both reasons why I do not go to bars, and do not wear things that indicate I train in any system of combat!

I live in a town that well some in the bars carry guns, knives and such, and over the years a lot of blood has been fatally shed in the bars here... so I do not go to them any where. not comfortable in one. 

the logo stuff, well invites stupidity it seems at times, besides if I need my training, I want it to be a very nasty surprise.


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## astrobiologist (Apr 19, 2009)

Thanks for the replies everyone.  I think I may just take the advice and not wear the dojo shirt to a bar again.  That said though, I will still wear the shirt outside of my home and school.  If that draws in a dummie or two...  then I'll have to deal with that when it comes to it I guess.


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## Andy Moynihan (Apr 19, 2009)

Well, these are the reasons I neither wear martial-arts related clothing in public or go to bars. Ever. I wanna get smashed I'm 3 minutes' walk from my house to a liquor store.
That being said, I don't get smashed. A man is of no use to himself, friends or family should he be sloshed when an emergency occurs. That's one Irish stereotype I don't fit--a "drinking binge" to me means more than once a YEAR.

It's the same reason why most states that allow carry of firearms mandate that they be carried concealed. Take the hint and conceal your school shirts as well.

Now with all that being said---"Any landing you walk away from is a good landing."


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## Makalakumu (Apr 19, 2009)

chinto said:


> ...besides if I need my training, I want it to be a very nasty surprise.



According to all of the old masters, that is the way karate works best.


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## BLACK LION (Apr 20, 2009)

wear what you want when you want... if thier ego is on fire and lusting for some action, cool them off with some wit and tact.... no need to oblige or indulge thier inadequacies ... but you can however exploit them....  carefully inserted words can calm even the most savage egomaniacs


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## jarrod (Apr 20, 2009)

black lion gives good advice...when i've talked my way out of things it hasn't been with appeasement but humor.

jf


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