# Kukkiwon Certifications delayed



## ETinCYQX (Oct 21, 2012)

Have any of my fellow kukkiwon black belts had ridiculous waits for certificates? My 1st Dan certificate took 15-16 months to get, in fact I just got it Friday.  

I remember a lot of you had this problem and the source was your own school, but I don't think my issue is with my instructor, I have far too much faith in him to entertain that possibility. In fact he took a trip to Korea to check on mine and a few others.


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## StudentCarl (Oct 22, 2012)

That sounds kinda strange. Mine was submitted in April and arrived in early July, so submitted after and arrived before.


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## ETinCYQX (Oct 22, 2012)

Do you mind sharing your KKW number for reference?


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## ETinCYQX (Oct 22, 2012)

I just thought of something also. 

In Canada, our KKW papers go through Taekwondo Canada, our NGB. It's an idiotic policy imho and just another way to exert control in the wrong areas, but anyway. I don't believe USAT or AAU does this although I could be wrong. Maybe my issue is with Taekwondo Canada.


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## Dirty Dog (Oct 22, 2012)

You definately have an issue somewhere. My last test was 11-5-2011. KKW processed it 12-20-2011.


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## ETinCYQX (Oct 22, 2012)

I believe it's Taekwondo canada but I'm not sure. Some turmoil there lately, but it doesn't excuse a sport body from trying to control Dan grade in the first place. If they want control, they should issue their own like USAT. Won't say anything else as I'm not sure it's TKD canada quite yet. Either way, it won't stop me from stating my tested-for rank-I'm a KKW second Dan or at the very least an NL TKD 2nd Dan which is what matters to me the most.


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## Dirty Dog (Oct 22, 2012)

ETinCYQX said:


> I believe it's Taekwondo canada but I'm not sure. Some turmoil there lately, but it doesn't excuse a sport body from trying to control Dan grade in the first place. If they want control, they should issue their own like USAT. Won't say anything else as I'm not sure it's TKD canada quite yet. Either way, it won't stop me from stating my tested-for rank-I'm a KKW second Dan or at the very least an NL TKD 2nd Dan which is what matters to me the most.



The issue is going to hinge on the date your KKW rank was registered. The KKW TIG starts the day your rank is registered, not the day you test.


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## ETinCYQX (Oct 22, 2012)

I'm going to give my instructor a call and see what he thinks. Like I said I trust he put it through in a timely manner.


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## ETinCYQX (Oct 22, 2012)

According to my instructor, it's some issue with the KKW's turn around time on Canadian certificates. Michelle Robb concurs. I don't think KKW watches time in grade, I think they'll issue any black belt that a master signs off on.  

Ill be claiming it anyway, not my problem.


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## Gorilla (Oct 22, 2012)

We just put in my son's change from 3rd poom to 3rd Dan took one month...our Master submits directly to KKW.


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## andyjeffries (Oct 22, 2012)

ETinCYQX said:


> According to my instructor, it's some issue with the KKW's turn around time on Canadian certificates. Michelle Robb concurs. I don't think KKW watches time in grade, I think they'll issue any black belt that a master signs off on.



I believe the automated system does check this.  I know they are concerned with TIG and won't issue certificates before the person is eligible (whether it's during electronic application or when processing I can't be sure).

I also can't imagine that the KKW has an issue with Canadian certificates.  They may have issues with Taekwondo Canada (e.g. if they haven't paid their bill) but I can't imagine they will penalise a country


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## mango.man (Oct 22, 2012)

ETinCYQX said:


> Have any of my fellow kukkiwon black belts had ridiculous waits for certificates? My 1st Dan certificate took 15-16 months to get, in fact I just got it Friday.
> 
> I remember a lot of you had this problem and the source was your own school, but I don't think my issue is with my instructor, I have far too much faith in him to entertain that possibility. In fact he took a trip to Korea to check on mine and a few others.



I wonder what the record is?  I know that my daughter tested for 3rd dan the first week of Feb in 09 and her certificate was issued from KKW on Jan 20, 2011, just 2 weeks shy of 2 years.  In her case it was 100% USAT eff'ing with her.  

Eventually in mid December 2010 while I and the master that tested her (a very well regarded master at that within USAT were going back and forth with daily phone calls and e-mails between David Askinas, Becie Seals, RudelzieMae Lefotu and Penny Warren) her new coach submitted for her directly through the KKW website and it came through in just over 1 month.


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## StudentCarl (Oct 22, 2012)

My master submits direct to Kukkiwon, so I wonder if it's a middleman issue too. PM me if you still want my number, and I'll send it. 

Carl


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## ETinCYQX (Oct 22, 2012)

My instructor seems to think I should get it soon, along with my sister's 1st Dan, and TIG shouldn't matter. I'll go with that for now. 

Thanks for your input all.


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## Dana (Oct 22, 2012)

It usually ends up being the middleman, whom you have no control over.  Even sending paper applications to Korea, the wait is only about two months tops if you just miss a processing date.  You can also check online to see if it has been processed http://www.kukkiwon.or.kr/english/new_examination/new_english/pop.jsp.  Spell full name or middle initial depending how you submitted it.

Dana


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## Gorilla (Oct 22, 2012)

It might be because our master has a strong relationship with the KKW...but turn time is always 1 month!

The fact that hi is a KOM is a big help.


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## ks - learning to fly (Oct 22, 2012)

not sure what the problem is, mine just took 4 months to get after I tested...


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## Gwai Lo Dan (Oct 22, 2012)

ETinCYQX said:


> I just thought of something also.
> 
> In Canada, our KKW papers go through Taekwondo Canada, our NGB. It's an idiotic policy imho and just another way to exert control in the wrong areas, but anyway.



Ethan, how much extra does WTF Canada charge? I saw their website indicated that they may charge an additional amount.

At the school I study, I was told that WTF Canada takes a lot longer than going to KKW directly.

It is interesting to note that if you look at the member clubs on their website, there is a whole lot of clubs NOT listed!  I would guess a lot of clubs go to the KKW directly, regardless of WTF Canada's policy, and hence they are not registered with WTF Canada.

I'm an accountant, and noticed that the financials are less than healthy. (http://www.wtfcanada.com/eng/about/governance/financial-audits-and-management-letters/).  For 2012, cash is $31,106, while account payable and accrued liabilities is $155,529. Note 1 of the statements says, "The Association had a significant net expenditure for the year.  If the Association is not able to reduce expenditure or increase revenue significantly, it may not be able to continue as a going concern."  That's not good!


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## WaterGal (Oct 23, 2012)

I tested last October and got my certificate by the end of the year, but like others have said, my GM applies directly to Kukkiwon.


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## Gemini (Oct 24, 2012)

My last submittal for a 2nd Dan I just promoted took all of 3 weeks.


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## dancingalone (Oct 24, 2012)

Almost exactly a month to the date for me.


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## ETinCYQX (Oct 24, 2012)

Gwai Lo Dan said:


> Ethan, how much extra does WTF Canada charge? I saw their website indicated that they may charge an additional amount.
> 
> At the school I study, I was told that WTF Canada takes a lot longer than going to KKW directly.
> 
> ...



Yeah there are lots not registered...I'm a big sport guy with coaching aspirations, so it behooves me to stay in good standing with Taekwondo Canada. 

I'm not privy to all that much in Taekwondo Canada, but I will say that both Michelle Robb and Eva Havaris are exceptional people and we're fortunate to have them representing us at a national level. Michelle Robb lends the impression that Taekwondo Canada is on a major upswing, I am inclined to believe her, at the very least there's a lot going on, I have emails about Junior nationals and a poomsae training camp I got today. 

My TC fees are somewhere less than $200 a year, for myself as a black belt and my own dojang. We've discussed what I paid for Dan grading before, if you remember, all my expenses were included in that so I really don't know what TC charges. I think it's relatively insignificant, they understand that nickel and diming taekwondoin is not in their best interests.


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## ETinCYQX (Oct 24, 2012)

Also, Gwai Lo Dan, what I've been told concurs with you, applying through Taekwondo canada does take much longer, but a couple different sources have told me the issue is on the Korean side. I have no reason to doubt this.


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## andyjeffries (Oct 25, 2012)

ETinCYQX said:


> Also, Gwai Lo Dan, what I've been told concurs with you, applying through Taekwondo canada does take much longer, but a couple different sources have told me the issue is on the Korean side. I have no reason to doubt this.



Out of interest, have you asked the Kukkiwon if they've received the application for your promotion?  If so, have you asked them when it was received and when it will be processed?

I would go to the source.  As I said, the only reason I could think that the Kukkiwon is delaying applications from a body is if they aren't paying the bills (and I think that's justifiable).

Normally it's because of not actually putting the applications through in a timely manner...


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## Gwai Lo Dan (Oct 25, 2012)

ETinCYQX said:


> ... We've discussed what I paid for Dan grading before, if you remember, all my expenses were included in that so I really don't know what TC charges. I think it's relatively insignificant, they understand that nickel and diming taekwondoin is not in their best interests.


Thanks. Yes, I wasn't asking about your fees, but instead, the amount TC charges to be the middle man.  I asked one club why they don't go through TC, and they said they got ticked off at how long it took, so they go straight to KKW.


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## WaterGal (Oct 26, 2012)

This might be a little bit of a side-tracking of the conversation, but what are the benefits of going through the national organization?


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## dancingalone (Oct 27, 2012)

WaterGal said:


> This might be a little bit of a side-tracking of the conversation, but what are the benefits of going through the national organization?



It means you support them financially. This helps them fund various programs including bringing over experts from the KKW for seminars, not to mention funding a national team as well.


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## ETinCYQX (Oct 31, 2012)

On top of what dancing alone said, it's easier for athletes to have gone through Taekwondo canada because they don't need to prove their Dan rank.


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## ETinCYQX (Oct 31, 2012)

Gwai Lo Dan said:


> Thanks. Yes, I wasn't asking about your fees, but instead, the amount TC charges to be the middle man.  I asked one club why they don't go through TC, and they said they got ticked off at how long it took, so they go straight to KKW.



I'll find out exactly how much they charge to process KKW certificates tomorrow.


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## Dirty Dog (Oct 31, 2012)

ETinCYQX said:


> On top of what dancing alone said, it's easier for athletes to have gone through Taekwondo canada because they don't need to prove their Dan rank.



I don't understand what you mean here. Anybody with KKW rank, regardless of what org they did or did not use to register it, is in the KKW online database. What's to prove?


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## ETinCYQX (Nov 1, 2012)

Dirty Dog said:


> I don't understand what you mean here. Anybody with KKW rank, regardless of what org they did or did not use to register it, is in the KKW online database. What's to prove?



Dont have to provide it to Taekwondo canada for nationals, Toronto open, etc. Taekwondo Canada doesn't have access to the kukkiwon database. Plus I think it may be a "member in good standing" requirement.


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## Dirty Dog (Nov 1, 2012)

ETinCYQX said:


> Dont have to provide it to Taekwondo canada for nationals, Toronto open, etc. Taekwondo Canada doesn't have access to the kukkiwon database. Plus I think it may be a "member in good standing" requirement.



How can they not have access? Anybody can access the KKW database.

Taekwondo Canada doesn't own any computers?


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## Jaeimseu (Nov 1, 2012)

You can check the Kukkiwon website yourself to see if your rank has been processed. I tested over a year ago and still haven't received my certificate or ID card, but I know it's because my sabumnim hasn't picked it up and I'm not too worried about it. I checked the website and my information was updated shortly after my test. Of course, I tested at Kukkiwon so I would expect it to be updated relatively quickly.


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## d1jinx (Nov 1, 2012)

I processed 5 apps on 3OCT and recieved the Certs at my front door today 1NOV.  Less than 30 days.  

If you go through an Org, Basically its the org who delay the processing, and hold them when they return.  Too many hands slows it down.


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## ETinCYQX (Nov 3, 2012)

Dirty Dog said:


> How can they not have access? Anybody can access the KKW database.
> 
> Taekwondo Canada doesn't own any computers?



Worded wrong. 

Taekwondo Canada's database has KKW black belts processed through them, not a database of all canadian KKW black belts. If you compete with any regularity it makes more sense to file through Taekwondo Canada.


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## Dirty Dog (Nov 3, 2012)

ETinCYQX said:


> Worded wrong.
> 
> Taekwondo Canada's database has KKW black belts processed through them, not a database of all canadian KKW black belts. If you compete with any regularity it makes more sense to file through Taekwondo Canada.



Given the (apparent, from what's been said here) lag registering through TKD Canada, I'd say it makes more sense to put your KKW card in your wallet or training bag and leave it there.


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## ETinCYQX (Nov 3, 2012)

Dirty Dog said:


> Given the (apparent, from what's been said here) lag registering through TKD Canada, I'd say it makes more sense to put your KKW card in your wallet or training bag and leave it there.



I'm not positive, but I think it's a requirement for the "member in good standing" status. Not having that makes a competitor's life difficult.


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## Dirty Dog (Nov 3, 2012)

ETinCYQX said:


> I'm not positive, but I think it's a requirement for the "member in good standing" status. Not having that makes a competitor's life difficult.




Which goes back to 'just another way to take your money", sadly.


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## ETinCYQX (Nov 3, 2012)

Dirty Dog said:


> Which goes back to 'just another way to take your money", sadly.



Meh, I think the fee is $30 or something. I might have sent tkd canada $200 in the last 2 years, and that includes my dojang fees and a couple of students I paid yearly fees for because the $30 was more significant to them then it was for me.


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## Master Dan (Nov 4, 2012)

I has taken 30 days to recieve the official registration on the KKW website for my last two Dan/Poom recomendations however it is now 14 days since the registration and I have not recieved the paper certificates yet I am hoping this next week but at least it is official  and time in rank has started. Push comes to shove at least there is proof of rank on the site.


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## Gwai Lo Dan (Nov 4, 2012)

ETinCYQX said:


> I'm not positive, but I think it's a requirement for the "member in good standing" status. Not having that makes a competitor's life difficult.



Correct.  For example see the bolded section below (from http://www.wtfcanada.com/eng/news/events/national-championships-policies-rules/):

*National Championships  Policies & Rules*

                                               Nov 1, 2012   //   by Michelle   //    Coaches, Events   //   Comments Off                          
National Competitions Policy
 In order to be eligible to compete in the National Championships being held 9 to 13 January in Vancouver, BC (the _National Championship_), a black belt athlete and their designated coaches must (consistent with the National Competitions Policy).
 1. Duly register for the competition on or before the registration deadline published by Taekwondo Canada (the _Registration Deadline_); and
 2. Have met the standards and/or credentials required by Taekwondo Canada including those:
 a. published as part of the competition rules; and
 b. for black belt coaches, the National Coaching Standards Policy.
National Championship Rules related to Registration and Credentials
 The following requirements are part of the National Championship  Rules related to registration and credentials requirements and  deadlines.
 1. In order to register, by the _Registration Deadline_, each athlete and coach must:
*a. be a member in good standing with Taekwondo Canada; and
*
*b. be a member in good standing with the Recognized Member Organization (RMO), which  is the body that is recognized by Taekwondo Canada as representing  athletes in the province, with the exception of the Canadian Forces.*


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## Master Dan (Nov 5, 2012)

Just passing this along heres the link to check on Dan/Poom registration I was being brain dead and forgot the DOB is YYMMDD  http://www.kukkiwon.or.kr/english/new_examination/new_english/pop.jsp


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## WaterGal (Nov 8, 2012)

dancingalone said:


> It means you support them financially. This helps them fund various programs including bringing over experts from the KKW for seminars, not to mention funding a national team as well.



Thanks for the response.  Supporting the national team is a good cause, but I'm not really interested in flying out somewhere to go to a seminar.  I guess I was hoping that there might be something our dojang would get out of it. Sounds like we and our students would just be paying a bunch of extra money.  Oh well.


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## irgordon (Dec 11, 2012)

Once it is processed with the Kukkiwon, it is usually ready withing 30-40 days, any longer and its an issue with whoever you gave your application too. The new KMS (Kukkiwon Membership System) is designed to reduce the time even further to 15-25 days, once payment is submitted and application is verified.


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