# Sparring Questions - I'm So Confused



## Lynne (Jul 24, 2008)

I am like a lot of women and do not hit hard when sparring.  I originally thought I didn't need to.  Contact is contact.  I haven't seen the need to beat the crap out of my opponents, especially other women.  I guess I am wrong.

Yes, the instructors have directed us ladies to hit the guys harder.  I have had the guys tell me to hit them harder.

I am being told to hit the ladies hard as well.  With a female classmate, I did a backfist to the head, reverse punch to the chest - lightly.  An instructor came by and said, "None of this baby stuff.  When you have the opportunity, you *he showed me, wham! wham!*."  He wanted me to hit her hard...at least that's what I assume.  Maybe the punches didn't look committed?  Oh, I don't know.  The other women hate to spar my daughter because she kicks and hits hard.  She does so because the instructors were constantly after her to land hard.

My first tournament was last October.  I was an orange belt and had just started sparring.  At that time, we were told backfists to the head may or may not be allowed, depending on the judges and that some won't even allow you to do that as a set-up.  But some will allow backfists.  So, if someone backfists you to the head and the judge awards them a point, you may backfist them as well.  None of us were doing backfists to the head because we didn't have enough control anyway at that time.

So, here are some questions regarding backfists:  Are backfists to the helmet allowed at upper levels?  Is hard contact allowed?

Kicks to the are head allowed, correct?  All?

Why do people circle their legs over my head in class?  Inside/outside or outside/inside kicks.  Is that an intimidation technique or are they just being nice and not nailing my head or shoulder?  Would you be required to make contact in a competition with those kicks?

Face punches.  What the heck?  So, face punches are allowed at black belt as long as you don't draw blood?  Are face punches really allowed in competition?  Must you be black belt?  (I saw a male black belt giving face punches to a female black belt in the dojang - I do not want to spar him, ever, if he's going to punch me in the face.)

We have our tournament coming up in October, so I want to be mentally prepared.  And these questions are driving me crazy.


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## JoeW (Jul 24, 2008)

In my opinion sparring is something that prepares you for the real thing.  I am not a fan of tournament/point sparring.  If you pull punches in sparring then you will go back to that in a real life situation.  Just like when you train SD with knives or guns you don't hand the gun back to your partner you put it on the ground.  You should train how you would act in a real situation to a certain extent.  Obviously you don't go all out in sparring but medium/full contact depending on experience is how I like it.


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## stickarts (Jul 24, 2008)

Lynne said:


> I am like a lot of women and do not hit hard when sparring. I originally thought I didn't need to. Contact is contact. I haven't seen the need to beat the crap out of my opponents, especially other women. I guess I am wrong.
> 
> Yes, the instructors have directed us ladies to hit the guys harder. I have had the guys tell me to hit them harder.
> 
> ...


 
Sparring rules are going to vary from school to school and to some extent tournament to tournament so its important to read the rules carefully before competing! I know someone who went into a tournament not realizing groin shots were allowed! What a surprise!!
For me sparring is one important aspect of training. its not everything and its not nothing. Its another way we train to have to compensate for distance changes, different types of partners, spontanaety, and learn what you can give and take. It is ultimately to develop skill.
Our rules are no contact to the head below Blackbelt and light contact at Blackbelt. medium contact to the body. Everything is controlled. Kicks are allowed to the head. Some people do the inside outside kicks to simulate an actual kick to the head.
Stop by my place some time and feel free to join our group. Its a fun sparring class.


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## MJS (Jul 24, 2008)

Lynne said:


> I am like a lot of women and do not hit hard when sparring. I originally thought I didn't need to. Contact is contact. I haven't seen the need to beat the crap out of my opponents, especially other women. I guess I am wrong.
> 
> Yes, the instructors have directed us ladies to hit the guys harder. I have had the guys tell me to hit them harder.
> 
> ...


 
Well, IMHO, there is a difference between beating the crap out of someone and hard contact.  If someone is intentionally out to hurt someone, then yes, that is wrong.  However, the arts involve contact, and its really something thats not avoidable.  I've had some hard sparring sessions during my time and still do.  Do I walk away with some bumps and bruises?  Sure, but there is still that mutual respect between the 2 of us.  

As far as tournaments go...the rules will vary from event to event, and the contact levels will usually vary depending on who's fighting.  2 white belts will most likely have no head contact, but the black belts probably will.


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## Blindside (Jul 24, 2008)

You need hard sparring to learn how to take a hit, and you are going to get hit.  If you have never been punched in the face, how do you know how you are going to react?  Unfortunately, due to my special skill in blocking with my nose, I have been punched inthe face repeatedly, it isn't a shock anymore, just a mental note of "moron."  Developing the mental conditioning to shrug off a bit of pain isn't an accident, it must be developed.  

Lamont


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## Lynne (Jul 24, 2008)

JoeW said:


> In my opinion sparring is something that prepares you for the real thing. I am not a fan of tournament/point sparring. If you pull punches in sparring then you will go back to that in a real life situation. Just like when you train SD with knives or guns you don't hand the gun back to your partner you put it on the ground. You should train how you would act in a real situation to a certain extent. Obviously you don't go all out in sparring but medium/full contact depending on experience is how I like it.


 I think you are right on.  I'm probably pulling my punches.  My instructors are probably trying to ensure I can defend myself.


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## tshadowchaser (Jul 25, 2008)

It is an old saying but if you have never been hit you will not know how to react when you are hit.  How true, and if you have never hit anyone you may not be able to do it when the time comes.
I know the controversy always pops up but I firmly believe that if you have not learned to hit hard and focus your hit you are at a disadvantage in a real fight.


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## Andrew Green (Jul 25, 2008)

I can't speak for your school or your tournaments as I do not know what rules you fight under, but some general things on contact:

Light contact is good, it lets you experiment without taking anything too solid, you are more free to try new things and make mistakes as you need too, this helps you expand on your skills.

It has its weaknesses though, a lot of people that only do light (or no) contact end up with a poor sense of distancing as they are used too pulling there punches, they lack the ability to hit someone hard, even when they want too.  They also never get used to taking a hit, which is as important as giving one.  If you are going to tuck and turn the first time a couple hits land on your nose you can't fight, because they are going to land.  Learning to overcome that natural instinct and push forward rather then turn away is a very important piece of the puzzle that can only come from sparring where people are trying to hit you.

Now for training the contact level should not be "try to knock the other guy out", your body simply can't do that on a daily basis.  But hard contact is important if you really want to learn how to fight.


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## Lynne (Jul 27, 2008)

I'm fairly certain my instructors want me to stop pulling my punches.

You know one thing that has held me back with kicks and punches?  Some of the women complain about being hit.  I sidekicked a woman about my age a few weeks back.  Honestly, I did not kick that hard though it was in the solar plexus.  She stumbled back and said, "Ow!"  Yet I know it wasn't that hard of a hit.  I mean I've been knocked down and it didn't hurt at all.  It may take your breath though.  I ended up apologizing.  When we got into the locker room, she said, "I [herself] don't have any business being here.  I don't know how to spar.  I'm afraid of sparring."

I will hit and kick harder in the future.  You know...listen to my instructors!  I was confused, now I'm not.

As far as competition rules for sparring, I guess it depends upon the particular tournament because in one of the recent PA tournaments people were doing face shots and surprised the heck out of one my green belt classmates.  I don't think the rules are necessarily delineated.  And it may depend upon the main judge at each table.


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## terryl965 (Jul 27, 2008)

tshadowchaser said:


> It is an old saying but if you have never been hit you will not know how to react when you are hit. How true, and if you have never hit anyone you may not be able to do it when the time comes.
> I know the controversy always pops up but I firmly believe that if you have not learned to hit hard and focus your hit you are at a disadvantage in a real fight.


 

I have to agree with Tshadowchaser with the above .


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## Lynne (Jul 27, 2008)

terryl965 said:


> I have to agree with Tshadowchaser with the above .


 Is it usually at red belt or black belt level your students are doing hard face shots???


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## Kacey (Jul 27, 2008)

Sometimes it's not how hard you hit, but where - if you caught your opponent squarely in the solar plexus, it doesn't take a whole lot of force.  The key, to me, is_ focus_; if I can put a full-speed, full-power technique where I want it (1/2" away, surface, 1/2" in... deeper...) then I can do whatever is appropriate to the situation.

So yes - you need to be able to deliver full-power and full-speed techniques; you need to know what it feels like to be hit with them, and what it feels like to hit with them - and you need to be able to hit the point you want to hit when you want to hit it.  What that looks like will vary from class to class.  Talk to your instructor or a senior student; not being in your class, there's only so much we can tell you about what is appropriate there - only what's appropriate in our own classes.


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## cdunn (Jul 28, 2008)

Two things: First - Master M's Pittsburgh tourney was abnormally rough this year. (We had a freaking knock out in my division!) The rules are absolutely delineated. The center judge, however, tends to wind up using the rules he wants to. It is one of the reasons I do not care for tournaments - Especially after I travelled to one with the standard set of light contact rules, no face contact, no open hands, etc, and the center judge changed the rules to tell us that the only way to break the rules was to spear to the throat. 

Second: Yo do have to talk to your instructor, but, what we have always been told is to let the senior set the pace and tone of sparring. If he or she comes at you hard, go at them hard. If they come lighter go lighter. If you are the senior, you need to be able to gage your junior. Ramp it up until you think you're giving what they can take. 

It's a hard line to walk. You have to toughen yourself and your partner up. But you can't train with a broken person.


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## Lynne (Jul 28, 2008)

cdunn said:


> Two things: First - Master M's Pittsburgh tourney was abnormally rough this year. (We had a freaking knock out in my division!) The rules are absolutely delineated. The center judge, however, tends to wind up using the rules he wants to. It is one of the reasons I do not care for tournaments - Especially after I travelled to one with the standard set of light contact rules, no face contact, no open hands, etc, and the center judge changed the rules to tell us that the only way to break the rules was to spear to the throat.
> 
> Second: Yo do have to talk to your instructor, but, what we have always been told is to let the senior set the pace and tone of sparring. If he or she comes at you hard, go at them hard. If they come lighter go lighter. If you are the senior, you need to be able to gage your junior. Ramp it up until you think you're giving what they can take.
> 
> It's a hard line to walk. You have to toughen yourself and your partner up. But you can't train with a broken person.


A Pittsburgh tournament was the one where my classmate received a face punch - might have been the one you were in.  We are green belts so my classmate was very surprised.  I could see allowing backfists to the helmet at green belt level as most of us have enough control to hit the helmet instead of the face.  Tournament rules seem to not allow backfists at all however.

I don't know why there are rules just to be broken.  At least your main judge let you know you could spearhand to the throat.  In one way I'm surprised throat strikes are allowed at all.  I can maybe see at your level, 1st gup, and black belt that the rules would be different in tournaments.

In class, my seniors usually do slow it down for me.  I think when I spar with them, it's a break for them, lol.  The good thing is that they usually teach me during the sparring time.  If anyone is going to hit hard, it's usually someone at a lower level and who hasn't any control.  I did see one of our black belt men knock out one of the female orange belts about a year ago...well, she hit the mat flat on her back and was dazed.  Not sure if that was a knock out but it was close.


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