# Old, fat, out of shape guys needs advice.



## Lorak (Jan 15, 2008)

hehe, What a first post title.

Little background. I took Ta-Kwon-Do about 20 years ago for a few years. So I not a total novice.
(fast forward thru time).

My Daughter wanted to start taking karate. Being she is big into competitive soccer, I know she has dedication for what she sets her mind to, and signed her up. Her only demand.. That her fat lazy 40 year old dad sign up also to get into shape.

Anyway, I have started, and believe it or not most of the punches and kicks came back like second nature. (the movements anyway).

But I am having a few problems getting back into this life style and am looking for a little advice.

1)After lessons, My muscles aren't sore. But it is like the ligiments in my lower body are. Even with a lot of stretching (I am as limber as a steel bar now). Mainly a lot of discomfort behind my knees and the outside of my hips. Does anyone have any suggestions or things I could try to improve that? 

2) My left leg has become useless. Any one have any suggestions on improving techniques for a leg that is so far behind the other one?

I know that as out of shape as I have let myself become it will be a long, hard uphill battle to get back in shape. And I am awear that like most things, Practice over time will certainly help out in both issues.

Just wondering if anyone has came accross any training tips, or exercises that I can use to improve those areas while working on the normal practices.

Thanks for you time!


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## terryl965 (Jan 15, 2008)

First off welcome to the site, now on to your question I'm with you after a few years of health problem I with you fat and out of shape. The thing that keeps me going is consistants always doing the same routine until it becomes easy and then moving on to something els the body needs to be reorganized since the lay off. Best of luck to you and keep us posted.


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## Shuto (Jan 15, 2008)

I started MA at 50yrs old and I had problems with ligament and muscle strain early on.  I've read that yur muscles and tendons lose some of there elasticity as you age so that would be something to watch out for.  In my case, I think I stretched too much before exercising.  Now, I only do light stretches when my muscles are cold and reserve my serious stretching for after I've warmed up.  I also don't go all-out until my muscles have warmed up.  I'm having less issue with my hamstring since I've started this regimen and no issues with my ligaments and other muscles.   Maybe it's a coincidence, maybe not.

edit - I never experienced muscle or ligament strains when I was younger.


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## Drac (Jan 15, 2008)

You've gotten some great advice....Stock up on Tigers Balm (Red) for muscle aches and Woodlock Oil for the joints..


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## terryl965 (Jan 15, 2008)

Drac said:


> You've gotten some great advice....Stock up on Tigers Balm (Red) for muscle aches and Woodlock Oil for the joints..


 
A little Dit Dat Jow is also good for the aches and pains


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## Xue Sheng (Jan 15, 2008)

Shuto said:


> I started MA at 50yrs old and I had problems with ligament and muscle strain early on. I've read that yur muscles and tendons lose some of there elasticity as you age so that would be something to watch out for. In my case, I think I stretched too much before exercising. Now, I only do light stretches when my muscles are cold and reserve my serious stretching for after I've warmed up. I also don't go all-out until my muscles have warmed up. I'm having less issue with my hamstring since I've started this regimen and no issues with my ligaments and other muscles. Maybe it's a coincidence, maybe not.
> 
> edit - I never experienced muscle or ligament strains when I was younger.


 
Yup...always...ALWAYS warm up before stretching and try never to over stretch


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## Drac (Jan 15, 2008)

Xue Sheng said:


> Yup...always...ALWAYS warm up before stretching and try never to over stretch


 
Well said Xue....We gotta face facts we aint 20 anymore....


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## terryl965 (Jan 15, 2008)

Xue Sheng said:


> Yup...always...ALWAYS warm up before stretching and try never to over stretch


 
You can never say that enough for people our age.


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## kaizasosei (Jan 15, 2008)

try to copy everyone in the class and especially your daughter.  by closely observing them you might learn more about the arts and yourself.  i mean, the  way that is stretched. which exercies. and especially i think lots of stretching is in order.  - tell me about it, i practically have to kick myself in the *** to get moving nowadays.

j


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## terryl965 (Jan 15, 2008)

kaizasosei said:


> try to copy everyone in the class and especially your daughter. by closely observing them you might learn more about the arts and yourself. i mean, the way that is stretched. which exercies. and especially i think lots of stretching is in order. - tell me about it, i practically have to kick myself in the *** to get moving nowadays.
> 
> j


 
I'm still kicking myself LOL


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## still learning (Jan 15, 2008)

Hello, The older you get the more warm time is needed.

Try this:  Jumping jacks...start with a low number and EVERYDAY...increase the amount, idea is to work up to over 100 +.

Jumbing rope is good and also...just walking up to 30 minutes everyday...

Two more excercise that will get you BIG IMPROVEMENTS?    Push-ups and leg squats...both of these need to be started at low numbers and daily or weekly increase the amount everytime...till you can do 100 or more (perfer 10,000?) ,,,just kidding? UM?

Keep your excercise at home simple , (the above requires NO equitment) just the will to do it everyday!

I too am in the mid fifties and still trying to keep up with the younger ones!

The other choices are just EXCUSES!    ..not to do anything...

(We have a choice to keep our bodies heathly and strong...maybe a chance to live longer....or do nothing, and die a shorter life?)

Aloha ,  ( just till 147 years?) or when social securty expires? ....UM?


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## RED (Jan 15, 2008)

I was in the same "boat" as you when II started back.  Everything does comback quickly.  I can't really add much to what has been said other than loosen up your joints by rolling them around first before warming up and then once again at the end of a work out after stretching.  I start with my knuckles and wrist and end with my ankles and toes.  

Also, at first I was out to prove myself against guys who where 20-25 years my younger.  This was real hit (literaly) to my motivation, now I accept that I wont be able to keep up with the youngs guys and girls and work at my own pace.

Good luck and welcome to MT.


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## Kacey (Jan 15, 2008)

To repeat what many others have said - stretch.  Also, go through whatever you're doing in class on your non-class days; this will help increase your endurance, flexibility, and coordination - you don't have to go full-out, and probably shouldn't, at least to start, but it will help on the class days if you've done the same thing on non-class days.

Remember, people who wait to start a martial art until they're in shape, don't start!  So you're already ahead of most people.  Now, go thank your daughter for pushing you into this!  :highfive:


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## Explorer (Jan 15, 2008)

Very good advice so far.  I would only add that you seek out a good chiropractor.  I've got mine trained in so well he immediately checks out areas that are specific to martial artists.  Wrists, elbows, fingers, knees, hips, ankles.  We tend to put a lot of strain on these areas and a good chiro can be a godsend for the martial artist over 40.  I also have an acupuncturist that I see every once in a while.

Best Wishes,


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## IcemanSK (Jan 15, 2008)

My collegues have said it well. Stretch, rest, Tiger Balm or some such thing. Enjoy! Welcome to MT & back into MA!


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## Lorak (Jan 16, 2008)

Thanks for all the advice.
I guess I am still finding it hard to believe how far I have let myself go.

And I know that I push myself to hard. Comes from being in sports and the military I think. (If your not puking or passing out, your not trying hard enough). 

Got to get it through my head that I am not a young buck anymore. (being about 30 pounds over weight isn't helping either, but I am working on that)

So stretch, limber up, stretch some more, and when I am tired of that... stretch again.


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## Shotochem (Jan 16, 2008)

Excellent advice by all. 

 Good for you starting up again.  Your daughter will always remember and appreciate the time you train together when she gets older.

:cheers:

-Marc-


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## still learning (Jan 16, 2008)

Hello, Rewards will come...when looking back to when you first decided to start again......and you do your excercises and work-outs...train as hard as you can.....

two months from now..you will see and feel the difference....in six month...a bigger gain....a year from now...looking back....REWARDING!

It will always be the looking back...in time...YOU WILL SEE THE GAINS or losses if you did nothing?

Old, fat,& out of shape......You will still be "OLD" , not as fat, IN BETTER SHAPE!

Eating the right foods will give you more improvements....oysters?

Aloha


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## Lorak (Jan 17, 2008)

still learning said:


> Hello, Rewards will come...when looking back to when you first decided to start again......and you do your excercises and work-outs...train as hard as you can.....
> 
> two months from now..you will see and feel the difference....in six month...a bigger gain....a year from now...looking back....REWARDING!
> 
> ...


 
Yep,
I know it will be a long road to getting back in shape. As with most older men (at least in my case). I was really active and played a ton of sports growing up (until my mid 20's).

Sadly Those eating habits tend to stick with you. SO when I moved and have now worked a desk job for 20 years. Well.. you know whats happened.

I really got slapped in the face when I went to the doctor and realized just how fat I had gotten. I guess since it comes on gradual. a few pounds a year you just don't seem to notice. But When I saw that number (65 pounds over weight). I was in total shock. 

I have already changed my diet, Eating nothing but whole grains, nothing processed, and lean meats for protein. 

Dropped about 30 pounds already, but still have about 30 to go. I am a stocky guy, so there is no way I will reach "ideal weight". You find ofr heights and ages. But If I can drop at least 20 more I would be really happy.

My two biggest obsticals now are working to limber up my legs after 20 years of sitting on my butt. And Cardio for the same reason. 

Thanks everyone for the advice and well wishes.


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## still learning (Jan 17, 2008)

Hello, Mr Lorak....loss 30lbs , excellant job!  It is funny when you hear the younger guys talk about how there bodies feel old and  hurting....

When they get to our age "fifties and up" ....then they will really know what "OLD" is.....and it is a daily thing for us too!  

True if we excercise everyday at this age? ...it really helps!

Enjoy the "NEW YOU" ....Aloha  (the sunsets never ever grow old )


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## Full Circle (Jan 17, 2008)

"In my case, I think I stretched too much before exercising."   

I have read that overstretching can be worse then not stretching at all.  Seen a article where they were referencing some medical tests that showed, those that overstretched actually had more injuries than those that didn't stretch.   My coach showed me this article, as he thinks I was overstretching before practice.  I did cut my stretching time before practice in 1/2 about 7 weeks ago, but really can't say if it has made a difference or not.


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## Sensei Tom O'Brien (Jan 17, 2008)

I'm pushing 60 now & I need 20 minutes to just warm up before the class.  When I was younger you would never see me do kata.  Now that I am older I do a lot of kata, poomse - to get my blood moving and I stretch before class.  Just keep going.  Consistancy is the key.

Thanks,
Sensei Tom


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## Lorak (Jan 18, 2008)

Grr. 
Was so upset. Class was cancelled last night due to weather.  So instead had to content myself with high intensity workout on the treadmill at home, and then just going through kicks, punches, and such on my own.

I still got in a great sweat, but I know I don't push myself as hard alone as I do in class in front of others.

Hopefully, Saturday class will still be open (expecting more snow then to).

(Also, I may seem to ramble, but I am kind of using this thread to just post random thoughts in. Have a kind of history of how I was when I started and can look back on. Sort of a blog for self motivation I guess. )


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## still learning (Jan 18, 2008)

Hello, Last night snow fell again, on top of Mauna Kea mountain.  Our home faces the mountain...a 50 mile drive to the top of the mountain.

We were there a three weeks ago to play in the snow.  Elevation is at 13,000 feet, 40% less air, can only stay for about 1 hour...then have to go to lower altitude.

The snow nevers stops the training...just the high surf? ....surf or train?

Aloha  (what a problem to have?)


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## Sanchin-J (Jan 20, 2008)

As a 6'0, 310lb Irishman, I myself find it to be a bit difficult at times, however I've been really successful in the past with getting back on the horse so to speak and training. Granted, I hardly consider myself old at 34 years of age, but fat and out of shape sum me up perfectly at this point lol. I've got bad knees from Army life and old football injuries, back pain from work related injuries and being overweight, and I'm still recovering and learning how to breath again after giving up smoking.

However, I can say that I've changed my diet up quite a bit, I eat a lot of fruit, drink my 2 glasses of milk daily, stock up on carb and attempt to continue eating healthy. I keep a few ointments and creams available for muscle pain and what not, and continue to stretch daily to try to limber up. The biggest thing here is to maintain a positive attitude to this, sure we're big people but that doesn't mean we are incapable of being in our chosen art. In another thread I pointed out, that I know a TKD instructor in Louisiana that's 6'2 and weighs about 330lbs. Sure he can't vault into the air and perform a jump kick as gracefully as the slender folk, but for what he lacks in his aerial technique he makes up for in his ground fighting hehe. 

Good luck


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## Lorak (Jan 21, 2008)

heh,

Nice to meet ya Irish. Us Mics have to stick together. 

Also good to see I am not the only one going through this. My will power right now is good, Hopefully I really stick with the program this time. 

My First class (which I put in the other topic). Shamefully I had to bow out before the class was over. I honsestly just couldn't breath anymore.

And as bad and sore as I was Saturday morning, I still made myself get up and go to class. I made it not only through the whole first class, but I stayed over and made the whole second class too. Even started learning my kata for yellow belt. (guess those 3 years of TKD 15 years ago weren't a total waste.. hehe)

LOL, My old bones were paying for it all night and the next day though. But it felt really good. Just need to find someway to get these old hips working again. Right now my hips have all the flexability of concrete.

I guess the good thing is that I am trying to hit class at least every other day, so There isn't as much time to sit back and think about the soreness before I am up and off to class again.


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## Lorak (Jan 21, 2008)

Sanchin-J said:


> and I'm still recovering and learning how to breath again after giving up smoking.
> Good luck


 
Oh, As a former smoker myself. I really want to say congrats on your quiting.  For those that have never smoked. I don't think they realize just how hard it is to quit. I have been smoke free for a few months now. And every day is still a huge challenge. So I send you many well wishes as you continue on your journey!


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## PeteNerd (Jan 25, 2008)

Lorak said:


> heh,
> 
> Nice to meet ya Irish. Us Mics have to stick together.
> 
> ...



http://www.gettingfitagain.com/5bx.php

Check out the 5BX plan.  It starts out easy and scales very well.  It'll help you get flexible and in shape if you follow it.

Pete


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## Marvin (Jan 25, 2008)

As I am at the end of my 30's, I have learned a few things.

That it is imperative to warm up correctly (full body) and then stretch before working out. Pre-hab is so much easer than rehab the older one gets.

Know when to tap and know your training partners. If you are afraid of gettin hurt by some jackass who has a ego/self esteem problem, tell him thanks, but no thanks.

Ice,Motrin, Aleve and water are 4 of my best friends.


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## blackxpress (Jan 26, 2008)

First of all, 40 is not "old."  As for being "fat" and out of shape, I'm guessing you didn't get that way simply through lack of exercise.  The flexibility and soreness issues you mention will take care of themselves, to some degree at least, if you just keep at it.  Train hard and don't give up.  The key to getting back in shape though is a two pronged approach.  Diet and exercise.  You're doing the exercise part but what about your diet?  Just wondering.  If you're like most Americans getting, control of your diet is actually harder than forcing yourself to work out.  You need to be eating about 6 small meals per day rather than the customary 2 or 3 pig fests that most Americans eat.  Those 6 meals need to be high in protein and very low in carbs, with most of the protein coming from chicken and fish (not red meat).  Green, leafy vegetables = good.  Potatoes = not so much.  Get the picture?  And drink lots of water throughout the day, especially on training days.  It'll help keep your muscles hydrated which will in turn help with your flexibility and endurance.


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## swiftpete (Jan 26, 2008)

Might be a good idea to get hold of some joint supplements too. I try to make myself take them regularly and I'm pretty sure they do help when it comes to joint and ligament pain. They're not going to do any harm anyway.

You sound very motivated, good luck and keep on training! Soon you'll be showing your daughter a thing or two from the sound of it.


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## donald (Jan 26, 2008)

In regards to the talk about Tiger Balm, and the like. Does this stuff really work? Can you use it pre-emptively, ie:before class to help your muscles loosen up? I too am in the over 40 group, and sorely out of shape, but am ready to( with GOD's help) move forward. The advice I have heard on this thread sounds pretty solid. Hope to hear more...

1stJohn1:9


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## Lorak (Jan 28, 2008)

blackxpress said:


> First of all, 40 is not "old." As for being "fat" and out of shape, I'm guessing you didn't get that way simply through lack of exercise. The flexibility and soreness issues you mention will take care of themselves, to some degree at least, if you just keep at it. Train hard and don't give up. The key to getting back in shape though is a two pronged approach. Diet and exercise. You're doing the exercise part but what about your diet? Just wondering. If you're like most Americans getting, control of your diet is actually harder than forcing yourself to work out. You need to be eating about 6 small meals per day rather than the customary 2 or 3 pig fests that most Americans eat. Those 6 meals need to be high in protein and very low in carbs, with most of the protein coming from chicken and fish (not red meat). Green, leafy vegetables = good. Potatoes = not so much. Get the picture? And drink lots of water throughout the day, especially on training days. It'll help keep your muscles hydrated which will in turn help with your flexibility and endurance.


 
Your 100% correct. My biggest problem is that I ate like a horse while growing up because I was so active. I burnt all of it off, so it didn't matter.
The problem is i kept eating like that (habit), and wasn't doing anything. So the weight just kept adding up over the past 15 years.

I have been working hard at changing my diet. Eating things a lot better for me and eating them in smaller portions all day long.

I've also started hiting the Eliptical machine here at work. Right now I am hitting it hard for 30 min each day I have training, and an hour on days I am not going to the dojo. 

We'll just have to wait and see I guess. Weight didn't appear over night, so I know it will be a long battle to get all of it off.


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## blackxpress (Jan 28, 2008)

Good on you, Lorak.  Sounds like you're on the right track and have the right attitude.  I predict that in a few months you won't believe how much better and stronger you feel.


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## Lorak (Jan 30, 2008)

Well, another night, another new(forgotten) experience.
 As most know I signed up to take MA  with my daughter. And have been going to the family sessions, which are a mix of all ages. (mostly kids honestly). 

But it works well, since I am kind of re-learning all the basics anyway.
Well last night I decided to stay after for the adult class. (My Brother has since joined and we both took TKD many, many years ago). So I stayed after to work extra.

The adult class is a whole diffrent kettle of fish.  Even though I am a noob again. We are not inexperieinced. So we broke out the pads for some scripted and then free sparring for those that wanted to try it. ( I know. white belts sparring is scary, but all of us do have some prior experience, and know each other well inside and outside the dojo. So it wasn't so mindless free for all).

What a blast. I didn't do great. but didn't do as horrible as I thought either (even though Sensai took it easy on us). Sounds wierd, but felt kind of good to get beat on again. Really sore today, and my legs are killing me. But I had a blast.

I do have to come up with some kind of stretch to help my hips though. They are still giving me fits. Hurts a bit, and is sore when I try to throw and roundhouse kicks above belt level with my left leg.


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## Drac (Feb 4, 2008)

donald said:


> In regards to the talk about Tiger Balm, and the like. Does this stuff really work? Can you use it pre-emptively, ie:before class to help your muscles loosen up? I too am in the over 40 group, and sorely out of shape, but am ready to( with GOD's help) move forward. The advice I have heard on this thread sounds pretty solid. Hope to hear more...
> 
> 1stJohn1:9


 
Tigers Balm ( red) works..Good for muscle pain..For joints I use Woodlock Oil and it helps...


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## shesulsa (Feb 4, 2008)

donald said:


> In regards to the talk about Tiger Balm, and the like. Does this stuff really work? Can you use it pre-emptively, ie:before class to help your muscles loosen up? I too am in the over 40 group, and sorely out of shape, but am ready to( with GOD's help) move forward. The advice I have heard on this thread sounds pretty solid. Hope to hear more...



I've used TB in problem areas before class and it helped immensely - especially on areas coming off of overuse, strain or injury.  I have chronic low back problems and tight hamstrings. TB beforehand and a good thorough warm-up helped A LOT.


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## Drac (Feb 4, 2008)

shesulsa said:


> I've used TB in problem areas before class and it helped immensely - especially on areas coming off of overuse, strain or injury. I have chronic low back problems and tight hamstrings. TB beforehand and a good thorough warm-up helped A LOT.


 
Listen to Shesulsa..I have heard of this before and it slipped my mind...Try it...


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## Bodhisattva (Feb 4, 2008)

Lorak,

See my web page and the endurance training articles.  Start S L O W my friend.  But work up to it with time. Links below.

[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Method 1 : Endurance Interval Training for Combat Sports and MMA Training - High Intensity Interval Training[/FONT]



[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Method 2 : Endurance Interval Training for Combat Sports and MMA Training - SCOOTER HILL SPRINTS![/FONT]​

Be sure to take it easy.  I wouldn't try method 2 for a while, as it is less adjustable to your fitness level.  Stay with Method 1 for a while, and keep a RECORD OF YOUR PROGRESS.

Good luck.


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## Bodhisattva (Feb 4, 2008)

shesulsa said:


> I've used TB in problem areas before class and it helped immensely - especially on areas coming off of overuse, strain or injury. I have chronic low back problems and tight hamstrings. TB beforehand and a good thorough warm-up helped A LOT.


 
Tiger Balm is GREAT.

Most "muscle rubs" suck and are worthless (and have dangerous ingredients - people have been seriously hurt by bodyrubs with "icy hot" and other similar products..)

However, Tiger Balm is all natural - Clove, Menthol, and a few other choice ingredients.

And it WORKS.  I mean, SERIOUSLY - it WORKS.

The best way to use it is when your muscles are very very warm - so right after exercise, or right after a hot bath / shower.

If you have a full body workout that is sure to kill you in the morning, take a super hot bath, and rub it all over your body - but trust me - you're going to be hopping around for 20 minutes cursing - it's INTENSE.

Tiger Balm is good good good medicine.


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## Drac (Feb 4, 2008)

A very important fact about Tigers Balm..Wash your hands *very well* *BEFORE* using the toilet....Trust me on this one...


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## terryl965 (Feb 4, 2008)

Drac said:


> A very important fact about Tigers Balm..Wash your hands *very well* *BEFORE* using the toilet....Trust me on this one...


 

Yes I agree


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## Drac (Feb 4, 2008)

You might try White Flower Oil too...


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## shesulsa (Feb 4, 2008)

Drac said:


> A very important fact about Tigers Balm..Wash your hands *very well* *BEFORE* using the toilet....Trust me on this one...


That goes for everyone. 



terryl965 said:


> Yes I agree


OOOooooh yes.



Drac said:


> You might try White Flower Oil too...


Ditto!  White Flower Oil is better for firmer tissues, I think, like tendons and where tendons connect to muscle.  Remember - a little goes a LONG WAY.


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## Lorak (Feb 11, 2008)

Once again, I thank everyone in this thread for the advice they have given.

Me and my Daughter have our first belt test tonight. She is really excited! Funny seeing her just randomly practicing her kata when she gets bored. I am happy for her and she has just been jabbering for days about the test tonight.

For me.. I honestly am not too worried about belt test. belt test tonight will be really simple, and basically just an exercise. but it will be nice to once again have a bit of color on the Gi. (I am tired of looking like a chef.)


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## jamz (Feb 11, 2008)

Congrats on the belt test dude, good luck!


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## Lorak (Feb 20, 2008)

Hate to bump this, but as I said this is kind of my own inspiration/blog/ rambling

Things are going well. I find that I am getting in better shape. Or at least a good enough shape to where I can go through the whole night of training without feeling like I am going to pass out. 

Pushing hard to learn the katas for the next belts, and have continued to eat, cardio, and weight train. Down almost 2 pants sizes and just feeling a whole let better in general.

Still getting really tired/out of breath in sparring drills and throwing any kicks higher than belt level (side or roundhouse) kill my hips.

But I am getting there.


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## LuzRD (Feb 20, 2008)

Lorak bump this thread as often as youd like, it is YOUR thread :wink1: and it can help motivate/teach/inspire others 


i think what your doing is great, and sounds like your doing a great job!

eating right, exercise, down almost 2 pant sizes, you must feel like a completely new person! i know that i did a few years back when i kicked myself into shape!! its a beautiful thing

enjoy your training, thank your daughter again, and keep letting us know how your doing


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## Sanchin-J (Feb 20, 2008)

Speaking of needing advice, would anyone recommend taking a preemptive pain pill before class starts? I've been considering taking some aleve or motrin with me to class and popping a few of em due to bad knees and my back issues. 

Also, I've noticed now that I'm getting active in the arts again, that my hips are popping and grinding when I stretch or perform certain kicks, I'm wondering if I need to modify my kicks and stretching or if that's a normal occurrence as we get older.


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## Kacey (Feb 20, 2008)

Sanchin-J said:


> Speaking of needing advice, would anyone recommend taking a preemptive pain pill before class starts? I've been considering taking some aleve or motrin with me to class and popping a few of em due to bad knees and my back issues.



Pain is your friend - it lets you know when to slow down before you injure yourself.  I understand the attraction; I have a bad knee and I've contemplated the same - but I'd rather know when it starts to ache, so I don't injure it further; when it starts to hurt, I know to slow down, or it will hurt worse the next day.



Sanchin-J said:


> Also, I've noticed now that I'm getting active in the arts again, that my hips are popping and grinding when I stretch or perform certain kicks, I'm wondering if I need to modify my kicks and stretching or if that's a normal occurrence as we get older.



Yes, to both - it's a normal occurrence as we get older, and you need to modify your kicks and stretching to accommodate it so you don't injure yourself.


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## 7starmarc (Feb 20, 2008)

Kacey said:


> Pain is your friend - it lets you know when to slow down before you injure yourself. I understand the attraction; I have a bad knee and I've contemplated the same - but I'd rather know when it starts to ache, so I don't injure it further; when it starts to hurt, I know to slow down, or it will hurt worse the next day.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, to both - it's a normal occurrence as we get older, and you need to modify your kicks and stretching to accommodate it so you don't injure yourself.


 
Agreed on both counts. Although I'd add the caveat that it depends on what's going on in your body. I see no problem with easing a little muscle soreness or a slight strain with some Motrin, etc. before a workout.

I have had on and off back pain, and some days that stiffness kicks in. Some Motrin helps loosen me up and feel better, and I know that nothing I'm doing will aggravate the condition (on the contrary, usually helps with the stretching we do in class).

There are other times, however, when ignoring pain will just get you into more trouble. If the problem is chronic or ongoing, I'd get it checked out by your physician before you push through it. Things like arthritis really don't carry that much chance of additional injury from activity, but a moderate to severe sprain, tendonitis, tears, etc. could lead you down a path of injury you'll find hard to recover from.

And you may have to modify some techniques or aspects of your workout. We have some older people in our class who have various issues, and they perform different conditioning exercises at times.

Also, a break from training can be healthy as well. As we age, we don't receover as quickly, so certain aspects of your workouts may need to be adjusted (in terms of frequency of truly demanding things, etc.).

There's a decent book by Sang H. Kim called _Martial Arts After 40_ that you might want to look at.


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## Lorak (Feb 21, 2008)

Asprin is my friend. But I normally don't take it before training. As I find with the water, breathing, ect. It can give me reflux, (best way to describe it).

But I take it as soon as practice is over, before even getting dressed.  That way by the time I get home and get in the hot shower it is working and has really cut down on the soreness the next day.


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## 7starmarc (Feb 21, 2008)

Oh, one other thing about taking aspirin/Motrin/Aleve/etc. too frequently. These medications can impair platelet activity. This means that if you take them too regularly (daily over a couple weeks or more), you might start noticing increased bruising and longer time to stop bleeding.

I actually had this happen when my back was in one of its worst stretches and had been taking Motrin three times daily for a few weeks. We had a couple days of hard blocking drills and both my arms had large (3 inch+) bruises. Looked nasty, but went away in a bit. I've never had bruising like that from drills before.


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## bellmd (Feb 26, 2008)

I'm glad you bumped this thread.  My son and I are going to start MA lessons and my situation is very similar.  I took Tang Soo Do many years ago but now with 15 years of doing "nothing" and a desk job I'm 46 and in bad physical shape.  My son is 11yrs old and prodded me to get back into it as he wants to start as well.  I'm looking forward to beginning the journey again and sharing it with my son, I hope my mind will be strong enough to help me overcome my bad habits and physical limitations as you have done.  Thanks for sharing your experience(s) thus far and I wish you continued success!!


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## USP45CT (Feb 26, 2008)

My recommendation would be do lunges, squats, and jump rope.  Those 3 things are great ways to improve your conditioning and overall strength.


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## Lorak (Feb 27, 2008)

bellmd said:


> I'm glad you bumped this thread. My son and I are going to start MA lessons and my situation is very similar. I took Tang Soo Do many years ago but now with 15 years of doing "nothing" and a desk job I'm 46 and in bad physical shape. My son is 11yrs old and prodded me to get back into it as he wants to start as well. I'm looking forward to beginning the journey again and sharing it with my son, I hope my mind will be strong enough to help me overcome my bad habits and physical limitations as you have done. Thanks for sharing your experience(s) thus far and I wish you continued success!!


 
My advice is to just go for it!
My biggest hang up was one of embarrasment. As a lot of the kids in my classes or the kids of my friends. So it was very embarrasing to be out there working as several of my friends and my wifes friends are sitting in audience.

I even brought it up jokingly with several of the Dads (my friends). And surprisingly. They were impressed and actualy offered congrats and words of encourgement. Saying they wish they had to motivation to go out there. Needless to say that made me feel a lot better, even though sometimes it is still a bit strange.


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## Lorak (Feb 27, 2008)

Oh, and just my general update.

Not only am I training in my Daughters class. but staying after for the adults only classes now too.

I am still sticking to my diet (down 17 pounds since first of the year now!) Go me!
And I can tell i have a lot more energy in class.

Worked on grappling last night. Talk about an hour that will kick your butt!

but I made it through, didn't pass out. And am only moderetly sore today.


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## Imua Kuntao (Feb 27, 2008)

If you feel it in your knees, you might want to have them checked by the doc.


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## bellmd (Feb 27, 2008)

Lorak said:


> My advice is to just go for it!
> My biggest hang up was one of embarrasment. As a lot of the kids in my classes or the kids of my friends. So it was very embarrasing to be out there working as several of my friends and my wifes friends are sitting in audience.
> 
> I even brought it up jokingly with several of the Dads (my friends). And surprisingly. They were impressed and actualy offered congrats and words of encourgement. Saying they wish they had to motivation to go out there. Needless to say that made me feel a lot better, even though sometimes it is still a bit strange.


 
We had our first lesson last night.  Only embarrassment I felt was during the stretching excercises!  I was shocked at how poorly my leg stretching went.  I guess at age 46 things that haven't been used in decades have tightened up tremendously lol.  Great to hear of your progress, keep up the good work!!


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## ktaylor75 (Feb 27, 2008)

Sanchin-J said:


> Speaking of needing advice, would anyone recommend taking a preemptive pain pill before class starts? I've been considering taking some aleve or motrin with me to class and popping a few of em due to bad knees and my back issues.
> 
> Also, I've noticed now that I'm getting active in the arts again, that my hips are popping and grinding when I stretch or perform certain kicks, I'm wondering if I need to modify my kicks and stretching or if that's a normal occurrence as we get older.



Due to having really bad arthritis as a side-effect from Lyme disease, I have been in pretty rough shape.  Martial arts has definitely helped me gain range of motion in my hips and the ability to stand on my feet for many hours at a time (before martial arts, I was lucky to be able to stand for 10 minutes before my hips and knees gave out).  The pain in my right knee persisted and my doc sent me to a rheumatologist.  X-rays show a little bit of a problem, but nothing so serious to warrant quitting martial arts, but gave me a prescription for arthritis medicine..Lodine XL...I can take it 3x a day as needed...it is a God-send!  Well, anyway, I'm not a doctor, but that is my 2-cents worth.


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## Lorak (Mar 31, 2008)

Just an update since it has been awhile.
We have another belt test coming up this week. Looking forward to it.

My daughter entered her first tourney this weekend. And took First place in both of her events! Needless to say she has been a bundle of excitment all weekend.

As for me. Still working out, still getting into shape. Down about 25 pounds since the first of the year now. And my resting heart rate is down 20 BPM.
Feeling great! About 20 pounds more to go!


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## terryl965 (Mar 31, 2008)

Lorak said:


> Just an update since it has been awhile.
> We have another belt test coming up this week. Looking forward to it.
> 
> My daughter entered her first tourney this weekend. And took First place in both of her events! Needless to say she has been a bundle of excitment all weekend.
> ...


 
Sound like everything is working out for you great news.


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## Twin Fist (Apr 4, 2008)

awesome work, keep it up


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## jackmcmanus21 (Apr 8, 2008)

this is all good news!  Are you still feeling pain behind your knees and by your hips?


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## Lorak (Apr 9, 2008)

Thanks everyone.
Just passed another belt test. Gold belt now. ( I turned down the offer to test for a bit higher belt do to previous experience).
I'm doing this as much for my daughter as myself. And while she has said that I should be in the higher class. I still feel she might feel a bit discouraged, or disapointed if I moved on without her. So I told Sensai that I am happy to test when she test. At my age belt rank really doesn't mean much to me honestly. 

My hips still bother me a bit when doing roundhouse/wheel kicks. And side kicks if I try to put any height on them. But its getting better.

For my knee. Found out that I have Patella Tendonitis. Which me being stubborn and not resting it, has gotten worse. So I ma to the point now that the Doc don't want me doing much of anything on it. 
(nothing that causes the knee to bend at more than 90 degrees.)

So basically all leg exercises are out, No lunges, squats, extensions, hell not even supposed to ride a bike, or even sit cross legged.

but I'm still working on finding ways around it and managing to get a decent workout in.  Just have to get it through my thick skull that it is going to take a few weeks to heal properly.


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## Lorak (May 19, 2008)

Been a while since I updated.
But my daughter and I just passed our orange belt test this weekend. She was excited as I went and picked up all her gear for sparring and is looking forward to doing that in class.

Still working on getting in shape. Doing a lot better. Knee is about healed to 100%. But I think I am stuck with being as flexable as a 2x4 in my lower body for the time being.

Good luck to all!


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## arnisador (May 19, 2008)

That's great! It's good to hear that you're sticking with it!


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## terryl965 (May 19, 2008)

Graet Job Lorak, I am with you I am about as flexible as I am ever going to get. I keep working at it but sometime we just have to admit we ae getting older. Congrats on you and your daughter keep going.


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## Imminent (May 21, 2008)

About the knee being sore with tendonitis, you can try doing some kettlebell work, specifically the snatches and swings as they do not require deep bending and strengthen the quads, hams and glutes along with strengthening your tendon and ligament structure.  Start moderately, don't do any jarring exercises and you do not have to warm up for them so there is little trauma for the knee.  We don't focus on warmup other than proprioceptic or "loaded" stretching it will dramatically improve you range of motion and increase strength too.  One last thing I had luck with for boosting metabolism and easing joint pain to the point I stopped taking all other joint pain supplements, take 2 tblspns of organic apple cider vinegar with "the Mother" and 2 tblspns of unsulphured blackstrap molasses twice a day.  I have had 5 knee reconstructions, acromioplasties on both shoulders (2left,1right), facial reconstruction, and a number of other repairs to the body and this stuff has stopped about 85% of the pain associated after 20 plus years of trying other meds and herbal cures.  If it works you are ahead of the game if not it only costs about $10 for a month so you might find it worthwhile.  Good luck.


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## Lorak (May 22, 2008)

Thanks,
I'll give that a shot and see if it helps any.


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## MikeOstore (Jun 29, 2008)

Hey, I'm 17!


(I just couldn't help myself)


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## Shuto (Jun 30, 2008)

Imminent said:


> One last thing I had luck with for boosting metabolism and easing joint pain to the point I stopped taking all other joint pain supplements, take 2 tblspns of organic apple cider vinegar with "the Mother" and 2 tblspns of unsulphured blackstrap molasses twice a day. I have had 5 knee reconstructions, acromioplasties on both shoulders (2left,1right), facial reconstruction, and a number of other repairs to the body and this stuff has stopped about 85% of the pain associated after 20 plus years of trying other meds and herbal cures. If it works you are ahead of the game if not it only costs about $10 for a month so you might find it worthwhile. Good luck.


 
Do you make you own vinegar with Mother or do you purchase it?


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## bootcampbj (Jul 1, 2008)

Lorak, you are a legend mate, keep up the good work!!



I am in a similar boat with the tight/sore hips.  Ive found that walking regularly has helped a great deal in loosening up my hip joints while being low impact on the knees.


Really enjoy hearing your story, you have a lucky daughter.

 - bj


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## jkembry (Jul 1, 2008)

Keep it up Lorak...you are an inspiration since I have great difficulty getting height on my kicks as well.  At 50...I am finding that it just takes longer to get there and that is fine with me.  After all there is no destination...just the journey to enjoy.


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