# World To End Wednesday



## MA-Caver (Sep 8, 2008)

Time to practice our putting heads between legs and kissing bit. 


> *World to end Wednesday*
> 
> http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/07/world-to-end-wednesday by *Nilay Patel*, posted Sep 7th 2008 at 8:56PM
> 
> ...


Is it really necessary to spend this much on something like this? How many people could've been fed with 4 Billion bucks half a billion of it came from the U.S. no less. Is this our tax dollars at work?
If this will somehow help the world come together, end wars and create a cooperative humanity then fine I reckon 4 billion is a small price to pay. But honestly...


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## Brian R. VanCise (Sep 8, 2008)

This is very, very interesting and I read all about it a month ago and then again today.  This is a new direction and evolution of our physic's knowledge.


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## Xue Sheng (Sep 8, 2008)

Many years ago I was discussing the whole Big Bang theory with some people and I said I have often wondered about there being some people researching the big Bag theory millions of years ago and when they figured it out and...

*BANG!!!!*

the whole thing started all over again :uhyeah:


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## theletch1 (Sep 8, 2008)

When the nuclear bomb was in production there were grave concerns that the reaction that would result from detonation would be one in which ALL oxygen on the planet would be ignited.  Didn't happen.  I'm not too concerned with black holes being created by CERN.  It's a potentiality, not a probability.  Besides, we already have more than enough ways to make the planet go bye bye with out this one.


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## Sukerkin (Sep 8, 2008)

In governmental terms, half a billion dollars is very small beer.  Well worth the cost for what this mighty gizmo may help us figure out.

This is the path that leads us to matter-energy-matter conversion a la Star Trek and is an underpinning for the TOE that science is searching for.

The fruits of pure science are many, varied and often unexpected and a great many of the devices that we depend upon in the modern world came from it.

In the long run it is very cheap compared to the rewards we get from it and technology/knowledge stagnates when it is not done.


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## CoryKS (Sep 8, 2008)

But just think of all the people who _won't_ be hungry on Thursday if this thing produces an earth-shattering kaboom.  Problem solved, and at a mere $4 billion!


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## theletch1 (Sep 8, 2008)

Xue Sheng said:


> Many years ago I was discussing the whole Big Bang theory with some people and I said I have often wondered about there being some people researching the big Bag theory millions of years ago and when they figured it out and...
> 
> *BANG!!!!*
> 
> the whole thing started all over again :uhyeah:


There are those that interpret the Ramayana as being a story of ancient nuclear holocaust which resulted in returning man back to a stone age.  That would fit your take on the CERN reactor.  It's an interesting train of thought but one that would most assuredly derail this thread.  Hmmm, a new thread, perhaps?


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## CoryKS (Sep 8, 2008)

Xue Sheng said:


> Many years ago I was discussing the whole Big Bang theory with some people and I said I have often wondered about there being some people researching the big Bag theory millions of years ago and when they figured it out and...
> 
> *BANG!!!!*
> 
> the whole thing started all over again :uhyeah:


 
Roland Deschain approves.


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## Xue Sheng (Sep 8, 2008)

CoryKS said:


> But just think of all the people who _won't_ be hungry on Thursday if this thing produces an earth-shattering kaboom. Problem solved, and at a mere $4 billion!


 
Can't be an earth-shattering Kaboom... that would be the Aludium Q-36 explosive space modulator...wait a minute...PLEASE tell me those bastards were not crazy enough to make an Aludium Q-36 explosive space modulator.....


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## Empty Hands (Sep 8, 2008)

MA-Caver said:


> Time to practice our putting heads between legs and kissing bit.



Nah.  Micro-black holes would evaporate in a matter of microseconds, and could never consume enough matter to overcome that and grow in time.  There is a reason that micro-black holes are only theoretical - they won't last long, and have never been observed.



MA-Caver said:


> Is it really necessary to spend this much on something like this? How many people could've been fed with 4 Billion bucks half a billion of it came from the U.S. no less.



You tell me which is a better buy: pushing the frontiers of knowledge for 4 billion, or spending 700 billion on a military that matches the entire rest of the world put together.  Or over a trillion on transfer payments.  Hell, just paying the interest on our debt is several hundred billion.


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## Big Don (Sep 8, 2008)

> World To End Wednesday


Oh well


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## CoryKS (Sep 8, 2008)

World To End Wednesday; Women, Minorities Hardest Hit

/NYTimes


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## Archangel M (Sep 8, 2008)

Time to party like its...well...Tuesday.


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## Imua Kuntao (Sep 8, 2008)

You tell me which is a better buy: pushing the frontiers of knowledge for 4 billion, or spending 700 billion on a military that matches the entire rest of the world put together. Or over a trillion on transfer payments. Hell, just paying the interest on our debt is several hundred billion.[/quote]


I think this is going to be used as a weapon. Dont we have enuff  _holes in the world.


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## elder999 (Sep 8, 2008)

Imua Kuntao said:


> I think this is going to be used as a weapon. Dont we have enuff _holes in the world.


 
No time soon-if ever.There's hardly even any weapons potential that hasn't already been explored. The micro-mini black hole like effects are a theoretical, _uncontrollable_ side effect: they'll go where they want to go, for the short time that they exist, if they're produced at all...they've also _likely_ to have been produced in the past by other devices, with no known harmful effects like these dire predictions of doom....fear not the mini-pacmen of death, for they'll just eat a proton or two and blink out.....

Some of you are probably familiar with my "explain it so mom the shrink can understand" model. If mom asked me about this, the short, smart-*** answer would be "It can't happen, Mom, because the blessed Saint Stephen Hawking says so....."

To which she'd reply (probably after playfully slapping me) "Well, what does he say, smarty pants?"

The explanation lies in something commonly called Hawking Radiation, more properly as Bakenstein-Hawking Radiation (but, hey, he&#8217;s St. Stephen for a reason&#8230 which is radiation theoretically emitted by black holes due to quantum effects.basically, at the event horizon of a black hole, energy is emitted in the form of particles from particle pairing-one is absorbed, and one is emitted. If it&#8217;s real, well, such small black holes-whether man-made or natural can&#8217;t last long because their Hawking Radiation will (in theory) exceed what mass they&#8217;re capable of absorbing, and they&#8217;ll evaporate-for lack of a better word- in a burst of particles-rapidly. In theory, this is the eventual fate of even the largest of black holes, which is why some astonomers are looking for effects from large, primordial black holes in the form of emitted Hawking radiation from *<carlsganvoicemode"on>*_billions and billions of years ago_*<carlsaganvoicemode"off">* :lol:

Of course, Hawking Radiation is &#8220;only a theory.&#8221; If it doesn&#8217;t exist, though, and they remain stable, the micro black holes produced by the LHC will simply fall through the earth, at speeds approaching the speed of light (99% + or - 0.99% of C)-and not do a damn thing to the earth except gobble up a particle or two along the way.


Some colliders and accelerators, btw, have probably already produced black hole like micro effects, which is really a more accurate (but far less convenient) nomenclature....


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## Ninjamom (Sep 8, 2008)

theletch1 said:


> .....I'm not too concerned with black holes being created by CERN. It's a potentiality, not a probability.


Yeah, but ya know, I think 'll hold off on paying my bills until Thursday, just in case 



Empty Hands said:


> There is a reason that micro-black holes are only theoretical - they won't last long, and have never been observed.


That isn't true!! Haven't you ever heard of Dr. Emory Raines-Sykes, Dr. Piotr Magrajavich, Dr. Claris J. Kennely, or Dr. Sari Randjaputra?  OF COURSE NOT, because they were all swallowed by black holes before they could report their findings!


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## Xue Sheng (Sep 8, 2008)

Ninjamom said:


> Yeah, but ya know, I think 'll hold off on paying my bills until Thursday, just in case
> 
> That isn't true!! Haven't you ever heard of Dr. Emory Raines-Sykes, Dr. Piotr Magrajavich, Dr. Claris J. Kennely, or Dr. Sari Randjaputra? OF COURSE NOT, because they were all swallowed by black holes before they could report their findings!


 
:lol:


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## Brother John (Sep 8, 2008)

Sukerkin said:


> In governmental terms, half a billion dollars is very small beer.


Then I wish they'd leave me alone about my few thousand in income taxes!


Your Bro.
John


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## Empty Hands (Sep 8, 2008)

elder999 said:


> In theory, this is the eventual fate of even the largest of black holes...



Sure, it just takes thousands of universe lifetimes to accomplish.


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## Big Don (Sep 8, 2008)

elder999 said:


> the mini-pacmen of death


Next Friday at 8 on SCI FI


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## grydth (Sep 8, 2008)

Big Don said:


> Next Friday at 8 on SCI FI



Think we're gonna miss that. Can we have somebody tape it if the world does end?

Can't they delay this thing by 3 or 4 years so it will coincide with that Mayan
calendar prophecy?


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## Xue Sheng (Sep 8, 2008)

grydth said:


> Think we're gonna miss that. Can we have somebody tape it if the world does end?


 
Good point, damn bad programing on the part of the SCI FI channel. 



grydth said:


> Can't they delay this thing by 3 or 4 years so it will coincide with that Mayan
> calendar prophecy?


 
December 21, 2010... I think....


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## theletch1 (Sep 8, 2008)

2012, Xue.  Depending on who you're talking to the Mayan thing isn't an end of the world prophecy but it IS a world changing prophecy.  If this doesn't get us then Apophis will in 2036 or so.


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## Sukerkin (Sep 8, 2008)

It has been theorised, in fact, that all we observe as 'known space' exists inside a black hole, so don't worry about it.  Plus, micro-black-holes, are theoretically at least, generated all the time and float about in local space nibbling at atoms for a while before dissipating.

Cascade reactions unbinding the bonds between atoms throughout the universe are highly unlikely as a consequence ofthe LHC.  Just in case tho', I shall make sure to be drunk prior to full power activation .

EDIT:  The Mayan calendar thing has been done to death.  It's not the end of the world or Rapture (sorry, Christian Fundamentalists), it's just the end of the current cycle.  That can mean that everyone will stop being such a me-first **** about everything and become more spiritual rather than materialist or it could be the reverse.  We just don't know (or if it signifies anything at all).  The Mayan calendar is (allegedly) a cycle of psycho-social influences and it's up to us how we react to them.


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## celtic_crippler (Sep 8, 2008)

Isn't it interesting that any time some new discovery comes along the doom sayers come out of the woodwork? From Columbus sailing off the edge of the world to Y2K.....we've not really changed at the core have we? ROFL

....it's the 21st Century and though we make great scientific breakthroughs like this one, as a whole we're still nothing more than frightened-rock-beating-cavemen at heart. LMAO


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## Xue Sheng (Sep 8, 2008)

theletch1 said:


> 2012, Xue. Depending on who you're talking to the Mayan thing isn't an end of the world prophecy but it IS a world changing prophecy. If this doesn't get us then Apophis will in 2036 or so.


 
Thanks, I wasn't sure, it has been awhile since I read about it.... does it mention an atom smasher


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## grydth (Sep 8, 2008)

Does this mean no new season of "Survivor"?


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## Xue Sheng (Sep 8, 2008)

grydth said:


> Does this mean no new season of "Survivor"?


 
It depends if the world ends...sorry no next season.

If it is just wounded...good news...we all may be on the show


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## MA-Caver (Sep 8, 2008)

Xue Sheng said:


> It depends if the world ends...sorry no next season.
> 
> If it is just wounded...good news...we all may be on the show


If that's the case they'd better spell my name right on the checks!


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## elder999 (Sep 9, 2008)

Empty Hands said:


> Sure, it just takes thousands of universe lifetimes to accomplish.


 

So, yeah-sometimes, to the physicist, *that's*_ eventually_........

......and sometimes a pico-second or two is a very, very long time. :lol:


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## Bob Hubbard (Sep 9, 2008)

So Long and Thanks For All The Fish.


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## theletch1 (Sep 9, 2008)

Bob Hubbard said:


> So Long and Thanks For All The Fish.


Where's your towel?


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## Sukerkin (Sep 9, 2008)

Make sure to have a stack of them ready ... and some peanuts ... and some beer (of course) ... now where did I put my Electronic Thumb?


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## arnisador (Sep 9, 2008)

Q: But what about the B.H.U.S.-es?
A: Black Holes of Unusual Size? I don't believe they exists.


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## Xue Sheng (Sep 9, 2008)

Bob Hubbard said:


> So Long and Thanks For All The Fish.


 


theletch1 said:


> Where's your towel?


 


Sukerkin said:


> Make sure to have a stack of them ready ... and some peanuts ... and some beer (of course) ... now where did I put my Electronic Thumb?


 
With that in mind I suppose things could be worse&#8230; it could be a Vogon Poetry recital


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## Sukerkin (Sep 9, 2008)

Don't forget to counter-point the underlying metaphor - it won't save you from the air-lock but it never hurts to try .


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## CoryKS (Sep 9, 2008)

arnisador said:


> Q: But what about the B.H.U.S.-es?
> A: Black Holes of Unusual Size? I don't believe they exists.


 

It would be absolutely, totally, and in all other ways inconceivable.


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## Kreth (Sep 9, 2008)

theletch1 said:


> 2012, Xue.  Depending on who you're talking to the Mayan thing isn't an end of the world prophecy but it IS a world changing prophecy.  If this doesn't get us then Apophis will in 2036 or so.


And here I though you were talking about the bad guy from Stargate: SG-1... :lol:


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## FearlessFreep (Sep 9, 2008)

Kreth said:


> And here I though you were talking about the bad guy from Stargate: SG-1... :lol:



Same here...my first thought was "I thought he was dead?"


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## theletch1 (Sep 9, 2008)

FearlessFreep said:


> Same here...my first thought was "I thought he was dead?"


Now, you know in the world of sci-fi no one is ever really dead.


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## Kreth (Sep 9, 2008)

theletch1 said:


> Now, you know in the world of sci-fi no one is ever really dead.


With the possible exception of Kai, the last of the Brunnen-G.


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## theletch1 (Sep 9, 2008)

I found this article to be rather timely for this discussion.  Ya'll better read it fast as we're less than 24 hours from the end.


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## Xue Sheng (Sep 9, 2008)

theletch1 said:


> I found this article to be rather timely for this discussion. Ya'll better read it fast as we're less than 24 hours from the end.


 

LESS THAN 24 HOURS!!!!!

No time to read....so many trees and so little time you know.... must.... go... beat... trees.....


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## arnisador (Sep 9, 2008)

Well, I suppose they're right that the world will one day end, one way or another...


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## Xue Sheng (Sep 9, 2008)

It all depends on when the Vogons need to make way for an interspace bypass


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## Sukerkin (Sep 9, 2008)

Has anyone been to see the planning application?


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## Xue Sheng (Sep 9, 2008)

Yes It was on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying 'Beware of the Leopard'


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## Empty Hands (Sep 9, 2008)

elder999 said:


> ......and sometimes a pico-second or two is a very, very long time. :lol:



No kidding.  I'm still trying to conceptualize Planck time.


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## Empty Hands (Sep 9, 2008)

CoryKS said:


> It would be absolutely, totally, and in all other ways inconceivable.



That word, I don't think it means what you think it means...


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## theletch1 (Sep 9, 2008)

Empty Hands said:


> No kidding. I'm still trying to conceptualize Planck time.


 Planck time is how long you're passed out on the hard wood floor of a Mexican cantina before...no, wait... wrong spelling.


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## Empty Hands (Sep 9, 2008)

Ah, what a bunch of hoopy froods we have here.  Does my heart good.


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## CoryKS (Sep 9, 2008)

theletch1 said:


> Planck time is how long you're passed out on the hard wood floor of a Mexican cantina before...no, wait... wrong spelling.


 
I prefer to call it "Surprise Siesta".


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## elder999 (Sep 9, 2008)

Empty Hands said:


> No kidding. I'm still trying to conceptualize Planck time.


 
Which is probably _still_ not the shortest possible length of time....though it _should_ be. :lol:....and is, for the time being, the shortest _measurable_....sort of....as in _sort of measurable_ :lol:

This website is an excellent source for "Mom the shrink" explanations.Though sometimes technically "off," it's usually conceptually correct.


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## celtic_crippler (Sep 9, 2008)

Just how short can a measure of time be before you start going in reverse?


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## arnisador (Sep 9, 2008)

Time is the longest distance between two points!


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## Imua Kuntao (Sep 9, 2008)

Just wanted to say "Thanks" to elder999


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## Sukerkin (Sep 10, 2008)

In one of those examples of how sometimes free access to information can be a bad thing, I've just been enormously depressed by the Internet.  How?  I looked at a thread and a poll put up by my ISP with regard to the LHC experiment.

The level of ignorance that I read there set back my view of the worth of humanity by quite some margin.  In part it's not their fault I know, the structure of society has been re-fabricated to *make* them ignorant and fearful but do they never take the trouble to learn anything?

Of course, the media hasn't helped by trying to make this out to be a Doomsday Scenario but people really should be able to think for themselves at least a little ... surely?

Of course, the comedic element is that today is just a beam test to see that everything is lined up properly now that the device has gotten down to a low enough stable temperature.  It wont be actually colliding anything for a while yet.


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## FearlessFreep (Sep 10, 2008)

Well, I start a 15 hour drive to Pasadena tonight so if it's going to end, I wish they would just own up to it so I don't have to worry about the trip


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## Cirdan (Sep 10, 2008)

My mother just called me at work, she thinks the world is about to end.


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## Ninjamom (Sep 10, 2008)

So, I got up early this morning to check CNN to see if the world ended last night.  They didn't say one way or another.  Does anyone know?  Has anyone else heard?


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## theletch1 (Sep 10, 2008)

Ninjamom said:


> So, I got up early this morning to check CNN to see if the world ended last night.  They didn't say one way or another.  Does anyone know?  Has anyone else heard?


Haven't heard one way or the other but the fog in my little valley is so thick this morning that it may have ended everywhere but here... or maybe I'm in the center of a black hole and don't know it yet.  If anyone can read my post I guess I'm still alive.   Hello?  Anyone?  Bueller?


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## Cirdan (Sep 10, 2008)

Seems the initial tests were very succesful. Colliding the two actual beams won`t be done for another two weeks or so, but collisions in form of introducing elements into the beam have been done already.


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## theletch1 (Sep 10, 2008)

Didn't they learn anything from Ghostbusters?  Never collide the beams.   I wonder if there'll be any reaction at all from colliding light together.


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## crushing (Sep 10, 2008)

Ninjamom said:


> So, I got up early this morning to check CNN to see if the world ended last night. They didn't say one way or another. Does anyone know? Has anyone else heard?


 
I tried to google it but got something like a "Error 404: World Not Found".


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## crushing (Sep 10, 2008)

theletch1 said:


> Didn't they learn anything from Ghostbusters? Never collide the beams.  I wonder if there'll be any reaction at all from colliding light together.


 
You know scientists, always looking for a better way to heat up a cup of coffee.


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## Kreth (Sep 10, 2008)

It's starting...


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## Ninjamom (Sep 10, 2008)

I just found this news report from a *very* reliable source:



> *Success!  The World hasn't Ended*
> by Staff Reporter
> Published today
> 
> ...



Complete article available here.


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## CoryKS (Sep 10, 2008)

All the big news services are posting headlines like "Big Bang... And We're Still Here!".

Except they didn't actually "bang" anything, just let the particles run around in a circle for a while.


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## Xue Sheng (Sep 10, 2008)

CoryKS said:


> All the big news services are posting headlines like "Big Bang... And We're Still Here!".
> 
> Except they didn't actually "bang" anything, just let the particles run around in a circle for a while.


 

So are you saying it is still possible to hear

EUREKA!!! WE FOUND IT!!!!!

*BANG!!!!!
*
And the whole mess starts all over again :uhyeah:


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## Brian R. VanCise (Sep 10, 2008)

Still here at least so far!


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## MA-Caver (Sep 10, 2008)

Yeah, ... sigh, I woke up this morning and realized I'm still here and the world is still here... oh well, might as well get outta bed. 


> *Massive particle collider passes first key tests                *
> 
> By ALEXANDER G. HIGGINS, Associated Press Writer                                                                 _ 4 minutes ago_
> 
> ...


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## Sukerkin (Sep 10, 2008)

Sounds like every morning for me :lol:.


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## arnisador (Sep 10, 2008)

Sukerkin said:


> In one of those examples of how sometimes free access to information can be a bad thing, I've just been enormously depressed by the Internet.  How?  I looked at a thread and a poll put up by my ISP with regard to the LHC experiment.
> 
> The level of ignorance that I read there set back my view of the worth of humanity by quite some margin.  In part it's not their fault



Except that...if they posted on the poll, they have access to the Internet. Wikipedia could have helped them enormously on this matter.

Anyway, I plan on calling in to work "evaporated by a black hole" today. Think they'll buy it? My dean is a physicist, after all.


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## CoryKS (Sep 10, 2008)

Xue Sheng said:


> So are you saying it is still possible to hear
> 
> EUREKA!!! WE FOUND IT!!!!!
> 
> ...


 
Hey, maybe the reason we can't find evidence of a Creator of the universe is that the Creator snuffed it in making the universe.  On accident!


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## arnisador (Sep 10, 2008)

theletch1 said:


> I wonder if there'll be any reaction at all from colliding light together.



Well, this is why mothers warn their children to never turn on two lights in the same room at one time--the light would collide.

I once turned on a flashlight in the sunlight. It blew my eyebrows clear off my head.


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## theletch1 (Sep 10, 2008)

It may very well be ending after all.  I just got back from the Social Security office.  I had to apply for a replacement SS card and I was in and out in exactly 7 minutes! :ultracool


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## celtic_crippler (Sep 10, 2008)

Is it Wednesday yet?


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## FearlessFreep (Sep 10, 2008)

celtic_crippler said:


> Is it Wednesday yet?



Someplace...but it may already be Thursday someplace


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## shesulsa (Sep 10, 2008)

Okay, truth time. How many of you used this excuse to get a little somethin'-somethin' last night? Hm?

:rofl:

I'm thrilled that we haven't exterminated ourselves yet.


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## celtic_crippler (Sep 10, 2008)

shesulsa said:


> Okay, truth time. How many of you used this excuse to get a little somethin'-somethin' last night? Hm?
> 
> :rofl:
> 
> I'm thrilled that we haven't exterminated ourselves yet.


 
Perish the thought!


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## CoryKS (Sep 10, 2008)

shesulsa said:


> Okay, truth time. How many of you used this excuse to get a little somethin'-somethin' last night? Hm?


 
Dang.  I _so_ don't know how to properly exploit a major catastrophe.


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## arnisador (Sep 10, 2008)

shesulsa said:


> Okay, truth time. How many of you used this excuse to get a little somethin'-somethin' last night? Hm?



This is even better than the "I'm leaving to join the army tomorrow line"..."C'mon baby, tomorrow I might be swallowed by a black hole!"

I know they say that after a major power outage there's an excess of births 9 months later...maybe we'll have the "Black Hole Generation"!


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## elder999 (Sep 10, 2008)

Good God! To think that I didn't sleep at all last night, awaiting annihilation...:lol:




Cirdan said:


> Seems the initial tests were very succesful. Colliding the two actual beams won`t be done for another two weeks or so, but collisions in form of introducing elements into the beam have been done already.


 
Not really "collisions." The elements introduced into the beam were foils and instrumentation used for tuning and detecting the beam. More like "scraping" (this is the term actually used) the edges of the beam, and getting sizing, emittances and imagery.......

.....cool stuff, though...


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## Flying Crane (Sep 10, 2008)

Is it time to duck and cover yet?


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## Bob Hubbard (Sep 10, 2008)

Damn.  Now I'll have to do some work.  Been slacking since the 1st.  LOL!


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## crushing (Sep 10, 2008)

shesulsa said:


> Okay, truth time. How many of you used this excuse to get a little somethin'-somethin' last night? Hm?
> 
> :rofl:


 
Just having a pulse was plenty.  


I understand from news reports that it was just a test run and they haven't fully ramped it up yet.

Hope we aren't the Donner party cheering we made it past the Mighty Mississippi river and that it should be smoothing sailing from here.


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## Ninjamom (Sep 10, 2008)

shesulsa said:


> Okay, truth time. How many of you used this excuse to get a little somethin'-somethin' last night? Hm?


At least the hubby and I would go happy!  

Hey, it was either that or stay up and finish the dishes.  Which would *you* have chosen??


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## Sukerkin (Sep 10, 2008)

Ninjamom said:


> At least the hubby and I would go happy!
> 
> Hey, it was either that or stay up and finish the dishes. Which would *you* have chosen??


 
I wouldn't be able to leave the dishes un-washed - it'd torment my particles for all of quantum eternity to be vapourised knowing I'd left one of my duties unfulfilled (tho' I could be persuaded, purely on the basis of selfless prioritising of course, that the other 'duty' was more important) :lol:.


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## theletch1 (Sep 10, 2008)

So, what, exactly are the practical applications of the information we hope to gain from CERN.  Certainly it isn't just to satisfy our curiosity alone.


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## Xue Sheng (Sep 10, 2008)

Technically we still have time it is currently Wednesday at 10:54 PM in Geneva. 


Actually it looks like we have to wait another month until the test in question
http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/07/world-to-end-wednesday/


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## Ninjamom (Sep 10, 2008)

theletch1 said:


> So, what, exactly are the practical applications of the information we hope to gain from CERN. Certainly it isn't just to satisfy our curiosity alone.


Part of it is: When Galileo invented the telescope, he made new discoveries everywhere he pointed it, simply because he had access to things never before observed.  I think the LHC will similarly find scads of new information.  The applications will be left to others.  

Where could all this lead?  Just my humble speculation, but it could have applications in fusion energy research, or even in the development of anti-matter engines, _a la_ 'Star Trek'.  If extra dimensions are coiled and folded around us, it could provide methods for travel that appear faster-than-light in our own dimension (the first true 'warp drives').  I wouldn't be surprised if theories developed from the results resulted in methods for even higher speed computing and denser memory storage.  Production of the laboratory itself has already resulted in advances in practical applications of power distribution technology.


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## CoryKS (Sep 10, 2008)

BTW, if you haven't seen it, Google has a nifty logo commemorating this.


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## elder999 (Sep 10, 2008)

theletch1 said:


> So, what, exactly are the practical applications of the information we hope to gain from CERN. Certainly it isn't just to satisfy our curiosity alone.


 


> *Saint Stephen Hawking:*
> "Throughout history, people have studied pure science from a desire to understand the universe, rather than practical applications for commercial gain. But their discoveries later turned out to have great practical benefits....... Together they [the LHC and the space program] cost less than one tenth of a per cent of world GDP. If the human race can not afford that, then it doesn't deserve the epithet 'human'."




Practical benefits from past collider and accelerator research have been new cancer treatments, new medical imaging, and communications-it's possible things of that order might be realized, in addition to better and larger ways of manipulating anti-matter, and, yes, development of space-drives.....

Physicists, of course, are not driven to do research like this in search of practical applications-those almost invariably come later, as a spin-off or byproduct. Physicists are simply on a search for knowledge-most of them, anyway......


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## Sukerkin (Sep 10, 2008)

If it helps to have an analogy of a more human scale to draw on, think of pure science as being the factory that produces the bricks that are used later by others to build all manner of practical and wonderful things out of.

As I said in a previous post, if you don't have pure science pursued then all the demanding for 'practical applications' will garner precisely nothing.  If research had not been pursued for it's own sake in the past, the various technological revolutions we have seen would never have happened.

Also, the 'price tag' supposedy attached to the LHC programme is one for over twenty years of work to date and (as said before) it's a lot of money if someone were to put it in my wallet but hardly noticeable in the grand scheme of things.  The value that can come from confirming a few things in existing theories alone cannot be overestimated, let alone what can come from opening new understanding in the way particles intereact.

At base level, here're some random things grabbed off the Net in the same 'value' range for comparison (and one way off for scale):

http://www.indieglobal.com/miniBB/index.php?action=vthread&forum=1&topic=25
http://www.helpandcare.org.uk/cms/s...-save-the-nhs-87-billion-pounds-per-year.aspx
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_hb6630/is_200110/ai_n26594035
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/108970.php
http://www.ncpa.org/iss/wel/pd112701g.html


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## Brian R. VanCise (Sep 10, 2008)

Still here in Alma!


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## Ninjamom (Sep 10, 2008)

elder999 said:


> Physicists, of course, are not driven to do research like this in search of practical applications-those almost invariably come later, as a spin-off or byproduct. Physicists are simply on a search for knowledge-most of them, anyway......


 
Like the old sage wisdom goes, the Physicist asks, "What are the laws that govern the functioning of the Cosmos?"  The Engineer asks, "How may I apply those laws for the betterment of Mankind?"  _(The Humanities major asks, "You want fries with that?"  )_


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## elder999 (Sep 10, 2008)

Ninjamom said:


> Like the old sage wisdom goes, the Physicist asks, "What are the laws that govern the functioning of the Cosmos?" The Engineer asks, "How may I apply those laws for the betterment of Mankind?" _(The Humanities major asks, "You want fries with that?"  )_


 

....and then there's me....:lol:


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## Andy Moynihan (Sep 11, 2008)

Hey! We're still here!

DAMMIT!!!!


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## arnisador (Sep 11, 2008)

Worse yet, I have to work today! There's never a black hole around when you need it. :angry:


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## elder999 (Sep 11, 2008)

Ninjamom said:


> Part of it is: When Galileo invented the telescope, .


 

This bugged me a little, and I had to look to make sure, but Galileo didn't "invent" the telescope; he made improvements on the designs of three Dutchmen who had invented the telescope a year earlier, in 1608. Of course, he built his from "rumors," using trial and error,not having ever _seen_ a telescope, so he practically invented it.


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## arnisador (Sep 11, 2008)

theletch1 said:


> So, what, exactly are the practical applications of the information we hope to gain from CERN.  Certainly it isn't just to satisfy our curiosity alone.



Particle physicists in Europe invented the World Wide Web.* If you like free porn, thank a physicist.

The engineering that goes into designing this type of thing has spin-offs, but the main thing is the search for knowledge. We don't know what we'll be able to get from it until we know what it is. This is pretty much pure science. But then so was the search for the structure of DNA...

*Yes, of course it's a little more complicated than this.


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## Xue Sheng (Sep 11, 2008)

arnisador said:


> Particle physicists in Europe invented the World Wide Web.* If you like free porn, thank a physicist.
> 
> The engineering that goes into designing this type of thing has spin-offs, but the main thing is the search for knowledge. We don't know what we'll be able to get from it until we know what it is. This is pretty much pure science. But then so was the search for the structure of DNA...
> 
> Yes, of course it's a little more complicated than this.[/COLOR][/SIZE]


 
That and it makes cool little black holes that will suck things inside out as well as remove the clothes from their lab assistants so they can get more free porn 

**Yes, of course this just me being silly and I made the whole thing up.


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## grydth (Sep 13, 2008)

Andy Moynihan said:


> Hey! We're still here!
> 
> DAMMIT!!!!



Maybe.... but everything seems a little different somehow.... what happened to your trademark raving liberal posts?


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## Andy Moynihan (Sep 13, 2008)

If somewhere in all this mess I became a "liberal" something has definitely gone horribly twisted


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## grydth (Sep 13, 2008)

Not at all... you can expect a special commendation from the Presidents Clinton on the next Freedom From Guns Day....


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## Ninjamom (Sep 13, 2008)

?????????????????


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## Sukerkin (Sep 13, 2008)

O-oh!! We crossed the streams and now look what we got !? :lol:.  

Or has someone taken up the Time Machine offer and stupidly stepped on a butterfly in the distant past? double .


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## Ninjamom (Sep 13, 2008)

OK, I got it


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## arnisador (Sep 13, 2008)

It's a Brave New World!


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## Xue Sheng (Sep 15, 2008)

arnisador said:


> It's a Brave New World!


 
And "We can't allow science to undo its own good work"


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## MA-Caver (Sep 15, 2008)

Xue Sheng said:


> That and it makes cool little black holes that will suck things inside out as well as remove the clothes from their lab assistants so they can get more free porn p.


Cool, with those little black holes we have a place to put all those prisoners in those overcrowded prisons... or at least the ones sitting around sucking up tax payers money on death row.


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## Bob Hubbard (Sep 15, 2008)

So, does anyone know, is it safe to do anything yet, or do I need to stay here under my bed for a while longer? I really need to use the john, but don't want to go like Elvis y'a know.


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## MA-Caver (Sep 15, 2008)

Bob Hubbard said:


> So, does anyone know, is it safe to do anything yet, or do I need to stay here under my bed for a while longer? I really need to use the john, but don't want to go like Elvis y'a know.


(Elvis' voice)... uh...Thank you very much!


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## FearlessFreep (Sep 15, 2008)

Bob Hubbard said:


> So, does anyone know, is it safe to do anything yet, or do I need to stay here under my bed for a while longer? I really need to use the john, but don't want to go like Elvis y'a know.





http://www.salon.com/comics/opus/2008/09/07/opus/


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## arnisador (Sep 15, 2008)

Bob Hubbard said:


> I really need to use the john, but don't want to go like Elvis y'a know.



I wonder if Opus will be swallowed by a tiny black hole?


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## MA-Caver (Sep 15, 2008)

arnisador said:


> I wonder if Opus will be swallowed by a tiny black hole?


I hope not... I love the little guy.


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## shesulsa (Sep 15, 2008)

Ah, Opus.

I'm sure if he were sucked into a black hole he would come out the other side in another wonderfully intelligent and funny comic strip through which Berke will "breathe" life and commentary.

At least he's survived the "end" of a few of his "worlds."


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## teekin (Sep 15, 2008)

Opus, Milquetoast and Billy and the Boingers are more than happy in Outland just where they belong, jammin with Elvis. "Oh won't you be, mah teddy bear"
Lori


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## mrhnau (Sep 24, 2008)

You get a reprieve!

well, at least a short one. Cherish the moments!


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## Brian R. VanCise (Sep 24, 2008)

Are we still here?


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## Sukerkin (Sep 24, 2008)

Who can tell?  The LHC obviously breached containment when it introduced a fold of Null Space into our three-dimensional reality.  Anything is possible now ...


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## Brian R. VanCise (Sep 24, 2008)

So Sukerkin, technically the world could have already ended but we do not know it yet?


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## Sukerkin (Sep 24, 2008)

Aye.  Or we have transcended the normal limits of our existence and dwell in an infinitely stretched instant snipped from the tip of the Arrow of Time ...


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## FearlessFreep (Sep 24, 2008)

Sukerkin said:


> Aye.  Or we have transcended the normal limits of our existence and dwell in an infinitely stretched instant snipped from the tip of the Arrow of Time ...



Wasn't that a _Stargate SG-1_ episode?


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## Sukerkin (Sep 24, 2008)

Now you say it, I recall the programme of which you speak.  Just goes to show, if it's happened before it can happen again .


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## theletch1 (Sep 24, 2008)

Sukerkin said:


> Now you say it, I recall the programme of which you speak.  Just goes to show, if it's happened before it can happen again .


Groundhog day?

It's supposed to be shut down til spring.  Gee, we get to "enjoy" at least one more winter.


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## arnisador (Sep 24, 2008)

Maybe we have been split off into an alternate timeline, like in teh comic books...can anyone here fly? X-ray vision?


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## FearlessFreep (Sep 24, 2008)

theletch1 said:


> Groundhog day?



12:01


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## Empty Hands (Sep 24, 2008)

Brian R. VanCise said:


> Are we still here?



No.  Sorry for the inconvenience.


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## MA-Caver (Sep 24, 2008)

Brian R. VanCise said:


> So Sukerkin, technically the world could have already ended but we do not know it yet?


Sure, just that the Langolires havent' shown up yet heh.


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