# Sanchin kata and Tang Soo do



## Scott Lazovic (Oct 15, 2019)

Hello dear friends. I was searching about the forms of tang soo do, their history etc. Was sanchin kata (from Goju Ryu or another version) ever practiced in tang soo do? An article I found on internet refers that sanchin was listed by H. Kee at his second book as Tsan Tjin. I cannot find Kee 's books and by the way, the first volume is very expensive. Also I do not read Korean, so English books and googling are my only source of information.


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## dvcochran (Oct 15, 2019)

Hopefully others will chime in. The traditional TSD color belt Hyung are the Kicho (basic),  Pyung Ahn and Bassai forms. The 3 Nahanchi's, Sip Soo, Jin Do, Kong Sang Koon, Lo Hai, and Jion are the BB forms.  
You may see them spelled differently and some TSD derivatives also to the Palgwe forms.
I am not familiar with Sanchin in TSD.


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## isshinryuronin (Oct 15, 2019)

Sanchin is among the oldest of known kata, and of course, stems from China where is was known as _sa'am chien._  Higashionna Kanryo learned it (possibly from Ryu ru ko, with whom he studied) in southern China and brought it back to Okinawa.  This was passed down to Miyagi Chojun (Goju founder).  Both these masters made changes to the kata, as did those who followed.

TSD has mixed roots including native Korean fighting, northern Chinese influence (TSD Master Kee studied there) and Funakoshi's Shotokan.  From my limited Korean MA knowledge, their native fighting techniques had no kata (just as early Okinawan indigenous techniques did not.)   Whether northern Chinese kung fu had a Sanchin-like kata, I have not seen such reference.  That leaves Funakoshi Gichin's Shotokan as a source.  His style stems from Shuri-te, as compared to Higashionna's Naha-te which was more power oriented.  So, historically, Shotokan did not have Sanchin in its curriculum.  At least it is not listed in Funakoshi's "Karate-do Master Text."

Since many of Korean MA katas were adapted from Shotokan, they do not have Sanchin.  In more recent times, Korean styles have created or perhaps borrowed other katas.  Of course, nothing to stop some Korean dojangs (or anybody else) from adding anything they want, so it is possible someone stuck Sanchin into their Dojang's course of study during the last few years. 

If any TSD or TKD guys out there do Sanchin, let us know its lineage from your dojang.


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## isshinryuronin (Oct 16, 2019)

P. S. to my above post:

While Funakoshi may not have incorporated Sanchin, Motobu Choki indicates he had some familiarity with it.


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## Dirty Dog (Oct 16, 2019)

isshinryuronin said:


> TSD has mixed roots including native Korean fighting, northern Chinese influence (TSD Master Kee studied there) and Funakoshi's Shotokan.



Just to clarify, there is absolutely zero evidence of any native Korean MA being incorporated into TSD. Lots of claims, yes, but these have been resoundingly debunked. 
I'm not sure who the "Master Kee" you refer to is. If you're talking about GM HWANG, Kee, you should keep in mind that Kee was his first name, and he is properly referred to as GM Hwang. Unless you knew him personally well enough to be on a first name basis with him. 
Sanchin is not taught/practiced in any TKD system I am aware of. I do not believe it is taught in TSD either, since the only TSD currently extant are all from the lineage of GM HWANG and the Moo Duk Kwan.


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## Scott Lazovic (Oct 16, 2019)

Thank you very much for your responses. I can see that sanchin is not practiced from any formal Tang soo do system.


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## isshinryuronin (Oct 16, 2019)

Dirty Dog said:


> Just to clarify, there is absolutely zero evidence of any native Korean MA being incorporated into TSD.


Are you saying that ALL of Korea's MA were imported from Japan or China?  It seems highly unlikely that NONE of the indigenous fighting techniques found their way into present day TKD/TSD! 

My apologies to GM Hwang's memory for forgetting the G in his title.  He was, in fact, not a personal friend of mine, so I also apologize for erroneously using his given name.


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## Master K (Mar 6, 2020)

Scott Lazovic said:


> Hello dear friends. I was searching about the forms of tang soo do, their history etc. Was sanchin kata (from Goju Ryu or another version) ever practiced in tang soo do? An article I found on internet refers that sanchin was listed by H. Kee at his second book as Tsan Tjin. I cannot find Kee 's books and by the way, the first volume is very expensive. Also I do not read Korean, so English books and googling are my only source of information.



Sanchin or Tsan Tjin is listed in the Soo Bahk Do Dae Gahm in both the Korean and the English versions.  The form itself is not shown.  There are a number of forms that were listed in these books but not taught to my knowledge.  Hwang Kee listed it as the first form belonging to the Neh Ga Ryu style.  I hope this helps.


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## dancingalone (Sep 3, 2020)

Master K said:


> Sanchin or Tsan Tjin is listed in the Soo Bahk Do Dae Gahm in both the Korean and the English versions.  The form itself is not shown.  There are a number of forms that were listed in these books but not taught to my knowledge.  Hwang Kee listed it as the first form belonging to the Neh Ga Ryu style.  I hope this helps.



I believe GM Hwang just listed the forms as a catalog of all the forms he knew about.  I don't think he necessarily trained all of them himself.


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