# Picking Martial Arts



## Dolev (Jul 7, 2012)

I have a background to Martial arts, I've been on mountain training trips but I've never taken Martial arts very seriously and I'd like to change that. I have no financial problems as to paying for classes the problem is finding arts that suit me. I'm currently sure of taking Muay Boran but i'd also like to add 2-3 more Martial arts. I don't have many time constrictions unless its project from school and such but i'm sure i can make time.

I'm 6'0 or 182 cm tall, wide (Above average) shoulders, 16 years old and i'm pretty quick. I was thinking of taking Aikikai or Shaolin Kung fu or Bujikan or Sanda. I'm looking for some advice as what MA's to take, Dojo's aren't hard to find since i live in Asia.

Thanks for any help,
Dolev :ultracool


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## Aurum (Jul 7, 2012)

"I fear more the man who practices the same kick 1000 times, than the man who practices 1000 types of kicks 1 time." -Bruce Lee

I'm not very knowledgeable in what comes to MAs, but I think I know enough to be able to tell one can't just practice several martial arts at the same time. It's too many techniques to practice and too many things to focus on. One is already hard at some point, imagine 3 or 4. Unless you're planing to pay your way to black belt or something of the sort.

Anyway onto your main goal, if you want to find the right style for you, first you must ask yourself why do you want to learn it, then what for, and if you'll like it and how you like it. Then you can look around for what dojos are close to you, make a list, research each style, and make your choice.

As simple as that. What style to go with will always depend on your personal preference, because no style is superior, It's about the fighter, not the style. 

Cheers.


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## bluewaveschool (Jul 7, 2012)

Aurum said:


> "I fear more the man who practices the same kick 1000 times, than the man who practices 1000 types of kicks 1 time." -Bruce Lee
> 
> I'm not very knowledgeable in what comes to MAs, but I think I know enough to be able to tell one can't just practice several martial arts at the same time. It's too many techniques to practice and too many things to focus on. One is already hard at some point, imagine 3 or 4. Unless you're planing to pay your way to black belt or something of the sort.
> 
> ...



That is about as well as it can be put.  Go around and watch a few classes.  Pay attention to how the instructor interacts with students.  My style is Tae Kwon Do.  However, if the instructors had not been good, hadn't shown a serious interest in their students advancement, I would not have stayed with it.  I may love TKD, but I'll have great respect for any instructor of any art that shows me they care about their students and not just the money fees.


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## Gentle Fist (Jul 7, 2012)

First question...

Are you a striker; whom prefers distance and for the most part likes to stay upright?

or are you a grappler; whom likes to get in close and remain attached to your opponent even if it goes to the ground?

Many like to be both; but as a beginner it is better to concentrate on one to get the base down for your first preference...

Question #2 to follow


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## Dolev (Jul 8, 2012)

Every Martial art that you can possibly think of is in a 20km radius from my house, and public transportation is extremely cheap. I realize that it's about the fighter not the martial art, I've sparred with a friend of mine who has his first dan in judo and "won" even though i hadn't taken any martial art but on the other hand i could land a clean hit on a short kid who took karate. I'm more of a striking type of guy even though i'm good at grappling, I did notice that in street fights without knives most people go for locks, about the whole buying my way through, i'm not intrested in my rank but what i gain from it. 

I've seen all the teachers of the dojo's I've considered joining, i did kung fu and muay thai for a few years before i moved (I constantly move from place to place) to asia so i'm not really worried about getting things in a jumble ( I can always drop them), although i'm considering taking aikikai if i don't get accepted to bujinkan due to the spiritual aspect of the two arts. I'm trying to take 2 or 3 martial arts so i have the grappling and ground work aspect that you won't get from Muay Boran. I still have time before i'm going to dive into taking classes because it's kinda hard to choose; a week or so. 

I want to improve myself so if you guys think that i should limit myself to one Martial art please could you try to give me an example because i'm kinda confused.

I'm looking for something that works for me, and from what I've seen it looks like Shaolin Kung fu is pretty good but i'm not so sure about the teachers. Whatever comes i'm going to try and work out whatever i can, if it does get jumbled i'll drop whatever i enjoy the least. Thanks for your input, if you have any constructive criticism it's welcome.


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## Dolev (Jul 8, 2012)

bluewaveschool said:


> That is about as well as it can be put.  Go around and watch a few classes.  Pay attention to how the instructor interacts with students.  My style is Tae Kwon Do.  However, if the instructors had not been good, hadn't shown a serious interest in their students advancement, I would not have stayed with it.  I may love TKD, but I'll have great respect for any instructor of any art that shows me they care about their students and not just the money fees.


All the dojo's i went to seem pretty promising, it seems like Kung fu and jujitsu are really good but i'm still waiting for an answer from a private dojo as to whether or not i can come.


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## Aurum (Jul 8, 2012)

You seem eager and careless which I would say is common for your age. If you truly feel this comfortable on trying different martial arts and jumping around, then you have the perfect opportunity to try as many as you can before you really dedicate yourself to the one you'd like. I've always been told we should only focus on one MA at a time. If we want to learn more than one MA, we should first master one, and then start with the next, and incorporate it into our fighting style.

For example, some people learn Tae Kwon Do or Kick Boxing or so, and then when they master it, they start learning Judo, because their style lacks grappling technique. Or the other way around, they learn Judo but they want to land stronger, quicker strikes and keep their distance, so they go to learn Boxing or something of the sort.

If you're so comfortable with trying them all out, then do so, give them all a try, but focus on each of them on each class. Try to sink into the discipline, be the discipline and think about if that style matches your taste and your personality. We'll never fight decently if the style we mastered isn't one we like very much. We won't feel comfortable and It'll be harder to focus and slower to learn.

So again, if you'd like to master several MAs, master ONE at a time, and have the next MAs fill in the gaps and flaws of your previous art. Also, be aware that this process of learning several MAs will take years, so take your time and pay attention to the present. That's about the best advice I can give you as an amateur.


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## Dolev (Jul 8, 2012)

Thanks for the compliment, your input was very helpful. Tomorrow I'm goung to visit 3 dojos and decide between mauy boran, kung fu and bujinkan. I hope all goes well for me.Ill go with striking since its my weaker suit and I have a size advantage so most people won't go for grappling and I'm pretty good at locks etc.Once again I can't thank you enough for your input, have a great sunday!


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## Cyriacus (Jul 8, 2012)

Dolev said:


> Thanks for the compliment, your input was very helpful. Tomorrow I'm goung to visit 3 dojos and decide between mauy boran, kung fu and bujinkan. I hope all goes well for me.Ill go with striking since its my weaker suit and I have a size advantage so most people won't go for grappling and I'm pretty good at locks etc.Once again I can't thank you enough for your input, have a great sunday!


Grappling can occur incidental of contact - Standing grappling, that is.

Good luck finding what Youre looking for


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## Bill Mattocks (Jul 8, 2012)

Dolev said:


> I have a background to Martial arts, I've been on mountain training trips but I've never taken Martial arts very seriously and I'd like to change that. I have no financial problems as to paying for classes the problem is finding arts that suit me. I'm currently sure of taking Muay Boran but i'd also like to add 2-3 more Martial arts. I don't have many time constrictions unless its project from school and such but i'm sure i can make time.
> 
> I'm 6'0 or 182 cm tall, wide (Above average) shoulders, 16 years old and i'm pretty quick. I was thinking of taking Aikikai or Shaolin Kung fu or Bujikan or Sanda. I'm looking for some advice as what MA's to take, Dojo's aren't hard to find since i live in Asia.
> 
> ...



Let me ask you this - what do you hope to gain from taking martial arts training?  The answer to that question may help to guide you to choosing an art.

I would also like to say that 'adding 2-3 martial arts' may not be the best choice you can make.  Although many martial artists cross-train, for the most dedicated, a lot of that training comes later, after they are well on their way to mastery in their chosen art.  Dabbling in martial arts does not make you a martial artist; but it could make you a dilettante.   We have enough of those already.  

What is more important than the art you choose (in my opinion) is that you begin training and work hard and persevere.  We have become a short-attention-span world.  Our societies want gratification immediately, or we move on to the next shiny thing.  This is not something that lends itself to that kind of thinking or behaving.  If you are not planning to devote a significant portion of your life to training, you are getting good exercise, but otherwise wasting your time; might as well go to a gym and ride the stationary bicycle.

Good luck to you - keep us informed - we'll help keep you motivated.  In 20 years, you'll have a new perspective.  A martial artist's life is shaped by martial arts.  Is that what you want?  If so, pick an art and begin.


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## Dolev (Jul 8, 2012)

I want to gain the discipline from the martial art, I like to procrastinate and this is what seemed to help me. I used to be a varsity swimmer and stopped because I moved to Europe, swimming isn't exactly an entertaining sport and the only reason I would go back to swimming is to become popular, instead of that I've decided to take up martial arts I usually focus on one thing at a time but since I'm inexperienced I'm looking for guidance, MT seemed pretty promising and it's currently working out. I'm much less interested in rank than what I'm able to accomplish, martial arts is something I'm talented at, I pick up things fast but it's the hard work that pushes you past your  boundaries and that is something I need to succeed as a student as an athlete and hopefully a martial artist.


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## Dolev (Jul 8, 2012)

I forgot to ask, what's the optimum class length and the optimum amount of times per week. I can't go all week since no dojo offers that kinda thing. 

Thanks for any and all your help!


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## WC_lun (Jul 8, 2012)

Pick one art and train the heck out of it until the body mechanics become ingrained and you really understand the concpets and principles that support that particular art.  The trick is finding and instructor who can train you in a manner that will give you those things in a way you will be comfortable with.  No martial art is so simple that a beginner can get those things in one art and train in another art without confusing the two.  That actually retards growth in both arts.  Yes, cross training in arts can be helpful.  I've done it myself.  However, not until you have a solid base underneath you in one art.

Look for an instructor you like and respect in a school that trains in a manner that makes sense to you.


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## Cyriacus (Jul 8, 2012)

Dolev said:


> I forgot to ask, what's the optimum class length and the optimum amount of times per week. I can't go all week since no dojo offers that kinda thing.
> 
> Thanks for any and all your help!


It differs from place to place. As far as I know, 2-4 classes a week 2 hours long is standard.


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## SuperFLY (Jul 9, 2012)

cant say anything Aurum hasnt already said really. he's summed it up rather well.

cross training is difficult, a lot of people do it but it has to be carefully managed, especially similar arts. you can get very confused very easily if one art does a kick one way but another art does the same kick a slightly different way for example.

i cross train karate and aikido. i am quite advanced in karate whereas i have only been doing aikido for a little over a year. i wouldnt want to start both at the same time, would be too much to handle. in my case my karate is so ingrained into me i can separate the stances/techniques for the most part, although i sometimes have been known to meet force with force in aikido when i wasnt expecting the attack ala karate whereas i should have moved and blended with the attack.

my karate instructors have said multiple times i should stop aikido and concentrate on karate and i continuously have to assure them it doesnt interfere. (other instructors dont mind, its just a couple of them that are concerned. - that said i have never confused a technique in karate so im not entirely sure where this thought comes from).

and this is coming from 2 arts that are completely different! karate with its various punches, kicks and blocks and aikido with wrist locks, controls and throws. 

personally i have found practising them both has been really useful for me. due to aikido i understand a lot more about my core, using power from my hips and various joint controls and locks that when doing bunkai (applications) to movements in karate i can apply some of this knowledge to apply and effective technique.

however, i dont believe this would be the case if i started doing them both from scratch. its hard enough learning the basics of one art let alone two so i would never recommend doing 2 or even more at the same time from scratch but doing one for a few years to be confident with the art, THEN start learning another.. yeh sure. this of course can depend on the type of art. doing karate and TKD for example i would imagine would be hugely difficult due to both being striking arts but with very different methods of applying those techniques.

as people have said above, if you want to experience other martial arts then go for it. try out as many as you can and find the ones that suits you the best and stick with that 

as for training, it depends on school and availability really. aikido i do 1, 1.5hr lesson a week whereas karate i do an average of 3, 1-1.5hr lessons a week. with work and other commitments i cant really do much more although i do step up karate a bit more when im getting close to a grading. with my aikido im happy just doing it once a week at the moment, im not really pushing my training with that. not yet anyway.


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## Chris Parker (Jul 9, 2012)

Dolev said:


> I want to gain the discipline from the martial art, I like to procrastinate and this is what seemed to help me. I used to be a varsity swimmer and stopped because I moved to Europe, swimming isn't exactly an entertaining sport and the only reason I would go back to swimming is to become popular, instead of that I've decided to take up martial arts I usually focus on one thing at a time but since I'm inexperienced I'm looking for guidance, MT seemed pretty promising and it's currently working out. I'm much less interested in rank than what I'm able to accomplish, martial arts is something I'm talented at, I pick up things fast but it's the hard work that pushes you past your  boundaries and that is something I need to succeed as a student as an athlete and hopefully a martial artist.



Here's a question... if you are after "discipline" from martial arts, how do you expect to achieve that from multiple arts with different approaches, different concepts of movement, different ideas of what works and what doesn't, and so on? Honestly, the idea of a student training multiple styles tells me that there's an issue with their discipline that martial art training won't do anything for... mainly as you're not following what needs to be done in order to actually get that benefit. You want discipline? Have the discipline to pick ONE system, and devote your time to that. That's discipline. The rest is either fear or ego, frankly.


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## Dolev (Jul 9, 2012)

I can stay with a single instructor for 2 years before moving for university where i will resume my training. 
The kung fu facility i went to offer classes twice a week for 75 minutes, although i think there are more kung fu sifus in bangkok i cant seem to find any on the internet.
I went to the this kung fu facility (http://www.shaolinkungfuthailand.com/index Eng.htm) if you guys could give me anymore places that offer Kung fu in bangkok i would be very thankful.


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## Dolev (Jul 9, 2012)

Chris Parker said:


> Here's a question... if you are after "discipline" from martial arts, how do you expect to achieve that from multiple arts with different approaches, different concepts of movement, different ideas of what works and what doesn't, and so on? Honestly, the idea of a student training multiple styles tells me that there's an issue with their discipline that martial art training won't do anything for... mainly as you're not following what needs to be done in order to actually get that benefit. You want discipline? Have the discipline to pick ONE system, and devote your time to that. That's discipline. The rest is either fear or ego, frankly.


If you would've bothered to read the entire thread you might have noticed that i said i'll look into one art, and quite frankly your comment wasn't very constructive. It was dickish, you might not be a dick but you sure do seem like one when you use forceful language and that you tell me that you see issues within me and my ideas; I am flawed but you can't tell whats flawed about me from a single post. 

You could, as others have, politely  come up with a suggestion or advice.


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## Chris Parker (Jul 9, 2012)

Son, that was phrased politely. Your comments are in contrast with your claimed aims, and I was pointing out the inconsistencies there. And yes, I have read the entire thread, and have experience in quite a number of the things you're asking about, so my comments (and questions) come from actually knowing what I'm talking about. You haven't answered why you think you'd be gaining discipline by dabbling in bits and pieces rather than dedicating yourself to a particular art, though.


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## Dolev (Jul 9, 2012)

Quoting myself I said that I'm confused and that I'll stick to striking techniques thus giving up my point of filling inconsistencies, thus rendering my multiple martial arts choice moot.

"Thanks for the compliment, your input was very helpful. Tomorrow I'm  goung to visit 3 dojos and decide between mauy boran, kung fu and  bujinkan. I hope all goes well for me.*Ill go with striking* since its my  weaker suit and I have a size advantage so most people won't go for  grappling and I'm pretty good at locks etc.Once again I can't thank you  enough for your input, have a great sunday!"  (posted third)

"*I want to improve myself so if you guys think that i should limit myself  to one Martial art please could you try to give me an example because  i'm kinda confused*" (Posted Second)

"I'm not really worried about getting things in a jumble ( *I can always  drop them*), although i'm considering taking aikikai if i don't get  accepted to bujinkan due to the spiritual aspect of the two arts. I'm  trying to take 2 or 3 martial arts so i have the grappling and ground  work aspect that you won't get from Muay Boran. *I still have time before  i'm going to dive into taking classes because it's kinda hard to  choose; a week or so*." (posted First)

Discipline is taught by teachers not by the art, respecting ones teacher shall eventually lead me to enlightenment since the teacher gives me guidance. Once enlightened the way of the martial artist spreads to all aspects of life. Dabbling is a way of finding something i like. Muay Boran courses are inconsistent due to the vast amount of seminar grandmasters go to.


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## Chris Parker (Jul 9, 2012)

Dolev said:


> Quoting myself I said that I'm confused and that I'll stick to striking techniques thus giving up my point of filling inconsistencies, thus rendering my multiple martial arts choice moot.



But then your following comments went against that idea, hence my take that you were still looking for a variety.



Dolev said:


> "Thanks for the compliment, your input was very helpful. Tomorrow I'm  goung to visit 3 dojos and decide between mauy boran, kung fu and  bujinkan. I hope all goes well for me.*Ill go with striking* since its my  weaker suit and I have a size advantage so most people won't go for  grappling and I'm pretty good at locks etc.Once again I can't thank you  enough for your input, have a great sunday!"  (posted third)



Bujinkan, as with pretty much all Japanese (native) unarmed systems, is dominantly grappling. Although the Bujinkan does feature a range of strikes, they are there to allow the grappling to be used. Kung Fu is a generic term for Chinese martial arts, and isn't anything specific enough to be applicable.



Dolev said:


> "*I want to improve myself so if you guys think that i should limit myself  to one Martial art please could you try to give me an example because  i'm kinda confused*" (Posted Second)



Still not saying you will only train one art, more asking if you could be convinced.



Dolev said:


> "I'm not really worried about getting things in a jumble ( *I can always  drop them*), although i'm considering taking aikikai if i don't get  accepted to bujinkan due to the spiritual aspect of the two arts. I'm  trying to take 2 or 3 martial arts so i have the grappling and ground  work aspect that you won't get from Muay Boran. *I still have time before  i'm going to dive into taking classes because it's kinda hard to  choose; a week or so*." (posted First)



See, you say you want striking, but are looking at Bujinkan (grappling and weapon-heavy) or Aikikai (almost nothing but grappling). And you don't quite seem to understand what the issue with training multiple systems is... it's not whether you can "drop them" or not.



Dolev said:


> Discipline is taught by teachers not by the art, respecting ones teacher shall eventually lead me to enlightenment since the teacher gives me guidance. Once enlightened the way of the martial artist spreads to all aspects of life. Dabbling is a way of finding something i like. Muay Boran courses are inconsistent due to the vast amount of seminar grandmasters go to.



Honestly? Romantic garbage. Discipline comes from maintaining discipline, which is from dedication to a particular goal. Respecting your teacher has nothing to do with enlightenment. Being enlightened or not doesn't mean anything when it comes to the benefits of the art "spreading to all aspects of life".


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## Dolev (Jul 9, 2012)

It's really not romantic garbage, for instance i have no respect for bullies. But i do have respect for my teacher who exercise self control when dealing with these bullies, you don't have to believe in what i believe. I do believe that when you do something every day and you constantly think of it, it will integrate into your life.  I may have misused the word enlightenment in retrospect, maybe when you get the hang of it, the teacher helps me get the hang of it. I don't want to learn how to fight, many of systems nowadays don't deal with modern situations, i want to learn the reason behind what i do. 

I go to a private school so I'm very disciplined and respectful towards those who deserve it, but I'm looking for motivation something that will push me through my day. Martial arts is that something for me, so i stop procrastinating and when i enjoy it i will become more serious about it rather than using it as a benefactor in my life.

Alright, there we go i didn't know that Bujinkan was all about grappling, the dojo i researched was geared toward striking. I won't go there, thank you for your information.

I'm willing to take advice, but you're giving me an opinion. Kung fu is a generic term, but shaolin kung fu is much more specific, some 15 styles, most commonly are wushu (sport), sanda, and Shaolin quan.

I don't think you caught on to the fact that I'm 16 seeing as on another thread you said i took karate when i *was *16; i am *currently *16.Mistakes


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## MJS (Jul 9, 2012)

Dolev said:


> I have a background to Martial arts, I've been on mountain training trips but I've never taken Martial arts very seriously and I'd like to change that. I have no financial problems as to paying for classes the problem is finding arts that suit me. I'm currently sure of taking Muay Boran but i'd also like to add 2-3 more Martial arts. I don't have many time constrictions unless its project from school and such but i'm sure i can make time.
> 
> I'm 6'0 or 182 cm tall, wide (Above average) shoulders, 16 years old and i'm pretty quick. I was thinking of taking Aikikai or Shaolin Kung fu or Bujikan or Sanda. I'm looking for some advice as what MA's to take, Dojo's aren't hard to find since i live in Asia.
> 
> ...



What are you looking to get out of your training?  Once you answer that, we could probably offer more suggestions.


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## Chris Parker (Jul 9, 2012)

Dolev said:


> It's really not romantic garbage, for instance i have no respect for bullies. But i do have respect for my teacher who exercise self control when dealing with these bullies, you don't have to believe in what i believe. I do believe that when you do something every day and you constantly think of it, it will integrate into your life. I may have misused the word enlightenment in retrospect, maybe when you get the hang of it, the teacher helps me get the hang of it. I don't want to learn how to fight, many of systems nowadays don't deal with modern situations, i want to learn the reason behind what i do.
> 
> I go to a private school so I'm very disciplined and respectful towards those who deserve it, but I'm looking for motivation something that will push me through my day. Martial arts is that something for me, so i stop procrastinating and when i enjoy it i will become more serious about it rather than using it as a benefactor in my life.
> 
> ...



The way you were putting it really was romantic garbage (not saying that your ideas are garbage, but that the ideals you stated are overly romanticized and far from the reality). The idea of having no respect for bullies, or having respect for your teachers is great... but not really much to do with the discussion here.

In terms of martial arts (or any repeated aspect of your life) having an influence on the rest of your life, well, yeah. Getting that mixed up with the ideas of enlightenment, though, is just off the mark completely. Additionally, that's not really much to do with the martial art (the examples you gave), as it can be achieved without martial arts very easily... just be disciplined and arrive places on time. There are plenty of martial artists who are always late, undisciplined, and so on.

When you say you want to learn the "reason behind what you do", what do you mean by that? 

I'm glad you're disciplined already, that's a good start, but again, going to a private school isn't what guaranteed that... plenty of private school students are also lazy, undisciplined etc. I'm not sure what you mean by saying that you're disciplined but unmotivated, though... again, this is all down to you as a person, not the martial art. Martial arts can be a vehicle that can help you (personally) in this area, but that's up to you, and is far from a guarantee, or definite result.

And, for the record, I haven't presented opinion yet, just facts. And when it comes to Shaolin Kung Fu, there are quite a number of systems that use that name (some more legitimately than others), so it can also be rather generic. Sanda is a form of Chinese kickboxing, not really Shaolin Kung Fu, Wushu is also not really related, and "quan" just means "fist".


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## Dolev (Jul 9, 2012)

Left alone i get lazy, but if i have something to do i work fast and efficiently. I want to understand why a samurai would stand up for peasant when he is disarmed, how did he achieve such faith in his technique. Learning something new is interesting to me and i like broadening my horizons  Shaolin kung fu is a term (at least as far as i know that talks about forms of kung fu that are affiliated to the shaolin temple). Shaolin quan=Chinese boxing, i'm relying on information from a dojo. I did Changquan before, but in my 3 year hiatus i'm much more tense then before, but i still plan on taking it up when i move. I'm interested in new things so i might drop changquan for something else, but i really enjoy it so it's highly improbable. I went to see the Changquan school near me, it's not very good since the teacher is not intrested in his students, on the other hand the Shaolin Kung fu facility i went to was very interested in me as a person and as a potential martial artist.

I know that a private school has nothing to do with what we are talking about but in previous threads i noticed that people asked for more of a background. In my school you HAVE to be on time and disciplined, my school is internationally ranked in the top 10. You mess up and you're out, it's stressful and Martial arts might also be a way to relieve stress.

Respect was a way of making a point as to what a teacher is.
You're also giving me questions that you would ask a martial artist, but I'm not one. I want to be one, but i wont get there if i don't apply myself.

I know there is no guarantee that it will drive me forwards but i enjoy it and if it becomes a hobby im okay with that, but i have to try if i want results. All the places i've trained do not tolerate tardiness or laziness, you have a different martial arts experience than i have.

In reply to MJS i'm intrested in becoming a martial artist but i will currently use it as a motivator to help me push forwards in my studies.  

I gotta go to bed it's 12 pm. Good night


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## MJS (Jul 9, 2012)

Dolev said:


> In reply to MJS i'm intrested in becoming a martial artist but i will currently use it as a motivator to help me push forwards in my studies.



Let me see if I can clarify for you.  What I meant is....usually when someone trains, they're looking for something specific.  If you're interested in grappling, I'd suggest a BJJ, Judo, Sambo school.  If you're looking for weapons, I'd suggest a FMA school, where there will be a big focus on knife and stick work, as well as empty hand.  You can be a martial artist by training in any art.  I'm wondering what your goals are.  What do you want to get out of training?


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## Josh Oakley (Jul 9, 2012)

Chris Parker said:


> Son, that was phrased politely. Your comments are in contrast with your claimed aims, and I was pointing out the inconsistencies there. And yes, I have read the entire thread, and have experience in quite a number of the things you're asking about, so my comments (and questions) come from actually knowing what I'm talking about. You haven't answered why you think you'd be gaining discipline by dabbling in bits and pieces rather than dedicating yourself to a particular art, though.



Ok, so... I am curious. Why are you having him explore a point he conceded already?

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


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## Dolev (Jul 9, 2012)

My Goal is to Master something I enjoy doing, possibly gain the ability to not get offended by hateful comments (Knowing that I'm better than that; confidence boost). Since I'm the only Jewish kid at my school my friends never exercised restraint towards antisemitic language, now when they mess up or when someone else does something stupid they call him a "Stupid Jew" and then someone has to tell a really bad holocaust joke. My Grandparents were in the holocaust and it's pretty touchy for me as they're my friends. I've already expressed my distaste for their actions and they have realized it and then they would claim that they would fix it but they never do. So that's a big thing for me, but the biggest thing is that I enjoy the ability to express myself through my fists; cheesy as it may be I always understood my brother when we fought, being 7 years older than me we didn't talk much because when i cared he was a teen, and now when he cares i'm a teen. So we always solved and talked through our fists.


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## Cirdan (Jul 9, 2012)

Well most people who train MA do so because they enjoy doing so, and it can certainly be a veichle for improving self control (as can many other activities).
Given that schools differ very much from place to place even within the same style, and you don`t list intrest in any particular aspect of the arts, you should just sample what is out there. Watch demonstrations if possible, sit and watch a class, get a tree trial class where they are offered etc. 
Just take it easy, be patient and show up with an empty cup


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## oftheherd1 (Jul 10, 2012)

Dolev said:


> ...
> 
> Discipline is taught by teachers not by the art, respecting ones teacher shall eventually lead me to enlightenment since the teacher gives me guidance. Once enlightened the way of the martial artist spreads to all aspects of life. Dabbling is a way of finding something i like. Muay Boran courses are inconsistent due to the vast amount of seminar grandmasters go to.



Teachers may be able to help you, but discipline must come from within. If you only practice discipline in the dojo, you don't have self-discipline. That you must have. Otherwise you are being disciplined, not making self-discipline a life choice. And you don't have any discipline without that, only an occasional acceptance of outside discipline.



Dolev said:


> ...
> 
> Since I'm the only Jewish kid at my school my friends never exercised restraint towards antisemitic language, now when they mess up or when someone else does something stupid they call him a "Stupid Jew" and then someone has to tell a really bad holocaust joke.
> ...
> ...



Is your instructor aware of that? Are you are doing something to bring that on yourself (it is still distasteful and inappropriate, of course)?

I would question if you are in a good school, and how you pick your friends.

In Korea, in many arts, when a student reaches 3rd dan, they are often encouraged to study another martial art up to black belt. This helps the student to know if they want to continue in their original art, and want to commit to it. The next level is master level after all. You might want to consider if there is wisdom in that approach, and whether you think you should take that into consideration in your own training. Remember this, you are 16, you only have 16 years of experience and a lot of that you don't even remember. God willing, you have a lot of years in front of you. You have time to learn one art well, then decide to try another one, or not.

I took TKD some many years ago, only up to 8th Green. 20 some years ago, I began Hapkido. Hapkido, at least as I learned it, taught blocking, punching and kicking, but didn't really emphacise learning how to punch much, kicking more (naturally, it emphacises other things such as joint locks and breaks, pressure points, throws, etc). Luckily I still remembered how to do both. Other schools may do differently. So the TKD helped me some. I don't think it would have helped me so much if I had tried to both at the same time. Only you can decide if you are different, and you may be. But I would still recommend only one art until you are at least about mid-way into the art before trying something new. And I really recommend attaining at least a 1st dan, if not a 2nd dan before dabbling in something else.

I'm not going to really recommend what art you should take. Naturally, I think Hapkido is a really good and well rounded fighting art, but that's because it is the art I have chosen to learn. You seem to think striking is your best thing, yet call it a weak point. You look favorably on standing grappling, which I think is better than a ground based grappling. Others will surely disagree based on their training. You also may need to consider what art is most likely to be taught in the places you may move to. Believe it or not, as I told you, there is no bad martial art, only bad teachers and students.

Many people put down TKD or those types of Karate that teach little else but blocking, punching and kicking. When I taught, I used to tell my students to be wary of such thoughts. If all one is taught is blocking, punching and kicking, when you defend against that person, you best expect them to be very good at blocking, punching, and kicking. So my student's goal was to be very good at defending against a very good blocker, puncher and kicker, not to disrespect that art.

But none of us can really tell you what you want to do as you are the one who has to live with the decision you make. Choose wisely.


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## WC_lun (Jul 10, 2012)

Dolev,
  As Mr. Parker has stated, enlightment through martial arts is romantic garbage.  You will not become "enlightened" through martial arts training.  It is a nice fantasy, but the reality is somehting different.  That is not to say that martial art training does not have many positive effects on a person.  For a dedicated student, the positives are quite numerous, but enlightenment, no. 

If I must communicate with my friends with my fist, then it is time to find new friends. If I tell a friend that something he says bothers me, that friend would stop doing it, because he is my friend and how I feel matters.  If how I feel does not matter, then that person is not a friend and thier insults mean very little.

Training martial arts with the idea in mind to settle things with your fist is a terrible mind set. If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.  Violence is a tool of last resort, and it very, very, rarely changes anyone's mind, but rather ingrains fear and hate.  The best way to fight antisemetism is be yourself and show that you are a normal, everyday person, much as they are.  Start beating people up and the antisemetic feelings will grow, though they may not say anything to your face.  If that is your goal, then your ego is why you want this and that is also a very bad motivation for martial arts training.  I know it is difficult to hear thier ignorance, but violence will not cure thier ignorance.

Many schools use "Shaolin" as part of thier name, because it is a good marketing tool.  Not every school that uses the name really comes from Shaolin. I've seen "Shaolin" schools that had absolutely no understanding of Shaolin fighting principles.  Then there are many, many, family systems that started from Shaolin, but have not been part of Shaolin for many, many, years.  In many cases the creator of the system would study martial arts at shaolin then come back and teach the family.  There is no garauntee that the original family member was a skilled teacher.  Having said that, there are many family systems that are quite good.  Ignore the name of the art.  Look for the substance.

Good luck in your search for a good school.  they are hard to find, but they are out there!


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## grumpywolfman (Jul 11, 2012)

Dolev said:


> ... I've decided to take up martial arts I usually focus on one thing at a time but since I'm inexperienced I'm looking for guidance, MT seemed pretty promising and it's currently working out.




Hello Dolev,

Personally, I would recommend staying with Muay Thai for right now, then add BJJ when you feel ready. After you get comfortable with Muay Thai, please consider switching up from closed fists to open hand and palm strikes once you begin your BJJ training. My reasoning is this, if you find a good BJJ school that teaches the Gracie Academy curriculum correctly, you will be learning BJJ self defense moves as a requirement to make it to Blue belt (what they call 'street ready'). Combine this with your 'open-hand MT' and you then have an excellant self defense core to work from for whatever direction you may want to go in the future in martial arts (with solid sparring experience). Even if you decide to never take up martial arts ever again after becoming 'street ready,' the muscle memory that you acquired should stay with you - in case you should ever need it to defend yourself. 




"I coulda been a contender. I coulda been somebody ..." ~ Marlon Brando (1954) 'On the Waterfront'


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## Dolev (Jul 12, 2012)

I'm at a good school, though its really hard to find friends. My friends are OK, but they're all dicks, they have admitted to it and told me to just live with it. 
Being a loner feels much more awful than an occasional jab to my religion. They try being nice but it feels very awkward. I don't want sympathy i want to overcome it myself.


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## Dolev (Jul 12, 2012)

I beat my friends up on a daily basis, they don't hate me more, I know that for a fact because they mocked Judaism long before i hit them.
I don't plan to beat people up with my training, i can do that now with fairly OK results. 
I said before hand enlightenment was not quite the word i was looking for.
I'd have to say my friends are complete dicks and i really should find new friends but it's impossible. Being a loner sucks, I had a good friend but he moved to japan, then my new best friend just moved to jakarta. 
Here is an example of how easily my friends are brainwashed dicks. One of our friends is a Bi-Sexual, he hid this due to the fact that he feared the dickishness of our friends. After a facebook "rape" my friend found out he is bisexual and is desperate. Now, this guy has seen every single one of us in our boxers (IMO big whoop) and one of our friends flipped out and turned everyone against him (except me) he is now mostly alone. 
That and they forgot my birthday, even though it says so on facebook, and i memorized each and everyone of their birthdays.

Thus i want to hurt them as much as possible before we part ways; i wont really do that but i will occasionally thrust my fist into their gut when they make incredibly ignorant jokes.


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## Dolev (Jul 12, 2012)

I don't feel comfortable with BJJ, it just feels really awkward. Do you know of anything similar?


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## Cirdan (Jul 12, 2012)

Dolev said:


> *I beat my friends up on a daily basis*, they don't hate me more, I know that for a fact because they mocked Judaism long before i hit them.
> *I don't plan to beat people up with my training, i can do that now with fairly OK results.*
> I said before hand enlightenment was not quite the word i was looking for.
> *I'd have to say my friends are complete dicks* and i really should find new friends but it's impossible. Being a loner sucks, I had a good friend but he moved to japan, then my new best friend just moved to jakarta.
> ...





Dolev said:


> *I don't feel comfortable with BJJ, it just feels really awkward. Do you know of anything similar?*




Uhh. Maybe martial arts is not an activity not for you after all. May I suggest.. collecting elephant eggs?


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## Dolev (Jul 12, 2012)

I don't assault people, I hit them when they insult me. They hit my throat yelling JEW SPEAR for no apparent reason, this happened way before i started hitting.
 them.
I don't like BJJ due to the lack of explanation of how to get to the ground; at least to the schools I've visited.

May I suggest you meet my friends; my homophobic, elitist, racist, ignorant, dickish friends. Since my school doesn't have many students, it's hard to find friends.


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## oaktree (Jul 12, 2012)

Hi Dolev, 
My first suggestion for you is disassociate yourself with your "friends". They obviously have a negative effect on you and you would be better off being a loner for a while than
 keeping bad company with you. I had friends in my past who were into robbery and drugs I disassociated myself with them because I did not want to follow their path, they have been dead for over a decade. 
My second suggestion for you is learn to control your anger issues:


> *
> Thus i want to hurt them as much as possible* before we part ways; i wont really do that but i will occasionally thrust my fist into their gut when they make incredibly ignorant jokes.


 This is no longer self defense this is something worse. You need to learn to control that because if you do not it could have unpleasant effects later in life. I would suggest something that builds team work like a team sport that builds communication and interaction with positive renforcement. If you do venture into martial arts I suggest something that involves working together like Judo or Aikido in which both partners have to have trust and cooperation in their roles in healthy competition.

BJJ can be a great art and transition from stand up to ground can be achieved many ways maybe the school you went to wasn't a school that explained it well for you.

Anyway Good luck.


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## Dolev (Jul 13, 2012)

I don't have anger issues please notice i said i wont do it, I don't want to be a loner for 2 years. My friends are fine except for the fact they're dicks. they don't smoke or do drugs. 

I mean do any of you remember your teenage years you would horse around with your friends. But my friends are sometimes dicks. They pick on me, i pick on them; it's a cycle. I am in total control of my emotions, I have never attacked someone in rage, I am calm and collected. 
I trust them, it's just that they are dicks.


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## Cirdan (Jul 13, 2012)

Calm and collected, and beating up your friends on a regular basis? What makes you think anyone would want to teach martial arts to a person who behaves this way?

Maybe Cobra Kai would be an option, but I hear they closed.


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## Dolev (Jul 13, 2012)

I don't beat them to a pulp i hit them once; here is my system 10 insults with warnings and i smack them on the head.


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## Chris Parker (Jul 13, 2012)

You know my system? One insult (serious one, not a joking around one), and you're gone. I don't associate with you anymore. 

Try it. Much better in the long run.


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## oftheherd1 (Jul 13, 2012)

Dolev said:


> I beat my friends up on a daily basis, they don't hate me more, I know that for a fact because they mocked Judaism long before i hit them.
> I don't plan to beat people up with my training, i can do that now with fairly OK results.
> I said before hand enlightenment was not quite the word i was looking for.
> I'd have to say my friends are complete dicks and i really should find new friends but it's impossible. Being a loner sucks, I had a good friend but he moved to japan, then my new best friend just moved to jakarta.
> ...



I may be wrong, but it seems to me you have difficulty in expressing yourself, as well as how to react to jibes from your 'friends.' When most of us say we beat someone up, we mean more than we took a playful jab at someone, or that we returned a so called playful strike at them in kind, and moved on. Or, we make it plain we are joking, and no such thing happened. You seem to be using 'beat someone up' in a different context. If English isn't your first language, you do seem to have a good command of the word usage and grammer, but not colloquialisms. 



Dolev said:


> I don't feel comfortable with BJJ, it just feels really awkward. Do you know of anything similar?



My personal feelings about BJJ (and of course BJJ practitioners will rightfully disagree) is that I don't want to be on the ground. My Hapkido went to great lengths to show me how to defend without that happeneing. Later, I was shown defenses should that happen, but it was to allow me to get back on my feet. So I don't care how one gets to the ground. I don't want to be there. That shouldn't be an awkward feeling, nor should the joint locks BJJ practitioners use when they get to the ground in a position to use them.

I and some others have made suggestions about other martial arts. If those don't tweak your twanger, I suggest you browse the many sub-forums here at Martial Talk. All the major martial arts, and many of the minor ones are covered. Some aren't real active, so it might take you a while to learn more. You also have the option of visiting schools near where you live.

And please watch how you express yourself. I am not favorably impressed by your descriptions of your life in the martial arts. It's not how I see good martial arts practiced. If you are describing some normal facets of teenage life, it just isn't coming across to me that way. I and others want to help you. But be careful not to put us off, and try to sound like you are listening. Most especially how you describe your school. I would cross to the other side of the street if I had to pass it based on how you describe it. If it's truely that bad, I really encourage you to find a better school, no matter the art.


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## oaktree (Jul 13, 2012)

> was *dick*ish, you might not be a *dick *





> *dick*ish friends.





> friends are complete *dicks *





> friends are brainwashed *dicks*.





> *dick*ishness of our friends





> fact they're *dicks *





> sometimes *dicks *





> that they are *dicks*


Can you find another adjective to describe your friends?

Your line about well they are my friends even though they insult me and it makes me mad its better than notihng. 

This is kinda of like the beaten wife/mother/child scenerio. In which someone makes excuses for why they should take the abuse, they are not that bad, I don't want to be alone, better than nothing are all classic excuses for that.

I remember being a teenager, I had friends who played around alot some took it to far so I disassociate myself from them. I had times were I had no friends but I never felt alone, I have me. 

So maybe you need to find you and when you do find yourself than you will know. In dealing with fools you will always depart, you can depart with them in tragedy or you can depart from them in prosperity. In your choosing a martial art school look for a good instructor one who you feel confident in, someone who can be a good role model for you.


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## Cyriacus (Jul 13, 2012)

Dolev said:


> I don't beat them to a pulp i hit them once; here is my system 10 insults with warnings and i smack them on the head.


'Warning' people is usually provocative.
Enough said there.


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## geezer (Jul 13, 2012)

Dolev said:


> I don't assault people, I hit them when they insult me. They hit my throat yelling JEW SPEAR for no apparent reason, this happened way before i started hitting.
> them.  ...May I suggest you meet my friends; my homophobic, elitist, racist, ignorant, dickish friends. Since my school doesn't have many students, it's hard to find friends.



_Dolev,_ You and your friends sound familiar. You don't happen to live in a small town in Colorado???






Seriously dude, maybe you need to find some new friends. Haters are totally uncool.


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## Josh Oakley (Jul 13, 2012)

Dolev said:


> I beat my friends up on a daily basis, they don't hate me more, I know that for a fact because they mocked Judaism long before i hit them.
> I don't plan to beat people up with my training, i can do that now with fairly OK results.
> I said before hand enlightenment was not quite the word i was looking for.
> I'd have to say my friends are complete dicks and i really should find new friends but it's impossible. Being a loner sucks, I had a good friend but he moved to japan, then my new best friend just moved to jakarta.
> ...



Well, as someone who was the target of a lot of Jewish "jokes" in high school, I can emphathize, heavily. It's tough for people who haven't experienced it to conceptualize, as anti-Semitic humor is dicey, at least when it comes to figuring out if they're really joking or not. It sucks to feel like the outsider, even in your own friend group.

I'm telling you this because I went through it myself: Don't allow this in your life, one way or the other. It erodes the self-respect.

This is part of why you're hitting them. It re-establishes some self respect. It's part of why I used to hit a number of friends of mine. But as long as you keep hitting them, you're still giving them the reaction they want. What I found is you either counter jokes:

"They circumcise us so the gentiles don't get intimidated." etc.

Or you set boundaries. And in setting boundaries, be willing to lose your friends. They're not the only people at the school, right? That means there are other people to get to know. 

Allowing your friends to act that way towards you puts you in a victim role. It's not a healthy way to live. It's MUCH better to be alone than with friends like that. And you would be surprised. Breaking with that group would likely open a wider range of possibilities for friends.

Trust me. I've been there.


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## geezer (Jul 13, 2012)

There is a lot of anti-semitism out there and it's real and needs to be confronted. But there is also a lot of pure_ immaturity_ among kids around Dolev's age. When I was about that age the kids I knew would mercilessly tease each other just to get a reaction. I grew up without any real experience of anti-semitism. Somebody being Jewish was something vague and not of concern, like knowing that somebody was Catholic, protestant, agnostic, or whatever. 

The "leader" of our little, not-so-exclusive clique was Jewish (Yeah, we hung out in cliques at that age). And then there was this one "outsider" guy we thought was a real doofus and used to try and tease. Not to much effect, ...until we found out that he was Jewish _and_ very sensitive to any kind of anti-semitic slur. So our own Jewish ringleader, "Roger" schooled the rest of us ignorant _goyim_ in how to deliver really cutting anti-semitic taunts to torment this poor guy. For a couple of weeks we made his life a living hell just to see how he'd react when we'd yank his chain. Finally, I was called to task for this behavior by a teacher who lectured me on prejudice. I remember being very ashamed, explaining that I_ wasn't prejudiced_, and that _I just wanted to torment the kid_ because I didn't like him personally. ...Like that somehow made it OK? I grew up a bit that day, and sincerely apologized to the guy I'd been messing with. Maybe Dolev's "dickish" friends will grow up too. Meanwhile, my advice stands. Get new friends.


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## Gnarlie (Jul 13, 2012)

Chris Parker said:


> You know my system? One insult (serious one, not a joking around one), and you're gone. I don't associate with you anymore.
> 
> Try it. Much better in the long run.



QFT.  Could not agree more.  If it wasn't anti semitism, they would find something to pick at. My teenage years were a living hell of victimisation and gang bullying, for reasons I still can't fathom.   Took me a long time to realise that I could operate the ParkerTM system of not associating with those who would do me harm.

You really can choose your friends, and when you're bullied, possibly the biggest hurdle is developing enough self-worth to believe that you don't deserve to be treated that way.

These people aren't your friends Dolev.  You don't need to hurt them, you just need to find the friends you really deserve.  On that point, a good friend is not just someone who doesn't taunt or hit you.  That should be a given, a prerequisite to get through the first round.  True friends actually care about you and will try to stop others from hurting you.

Good luck finding the friends you are worth.


Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2


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## Josh Oakley (Jul 13, 2012)

What we're all trying to tell you, Dolev, is you don't _have_ to hang around with these "friends" of yours. Small school or no, there are other opportunities for friendship. These guys aren't benefiting you. So drop them. We've been there ourselves. And it does get better. A lot of Life's happiness is the company you keep.


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