# Defying the Rod



## TwistofFat (Aug 4, 2004)

Boy am I having issues with this technique. The primary issue is I can avoid getting shot but the weapon always discharges (into my imaginary friends).

The guidelines as have been beaten into me are divert, seize, control and disarm (DSCD). I like to get two hands on the weapon as quick as possible and DSCD the weapon ASAP.
In DTR, I can divert AND (full beat) seize but am sol on divert/seize (quarter beat). By comparison, Capturing the Rod seems much more effective without getting me shot (or the issue I am having with DTR - getting SOMEONE else shot). My left hand is admittedly weaker than my right, but it seems to me the odds are lower at controlling (i.e. getting my thumb into the hammers path) the weapon with one hand than two. The kick THEN eye poke, flapping elbow, etc flow well but just wondering if anyone else has any input.

Thanks - Glenn.


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## Mark Weiser (Aug 4, 2004)

After speaking with several BB's on disarming techs in dealing with firearms. We came up with the following.

Firearms use linear movement that is they fire only in one direction. The primary focus as we know is to divert the discharge away from others including ourselves. 

Depending on the type of Firearm Semi-Auto vs a Wheel gun. There are different movements to use. 

On a Semi Auto the grab covering the slide to prevent it from sliding back is the proper movement and twist the barrel back to the criminal aka chest area. 

On a Wheel gun grabbing the cylinder of ammo to prevent rotation is neccessary while turning weapon back towards the chest. 

Of course stepping out of the way from front of the gun is also important lol. 

So sidestep to about 10 o'clock while grabbing the slide ( if neccessary use both hands) step and kick out the knee with a step thru knife edge kick. Turn weapon back towards the criminal breaking the grip and then rip the firearm out of the hand then you have a club to deliver a blow to the head and or neck region. And cover the criminal with his firearm and call 911 with your cell phone. 

Simple but effective however firearms are dangerous to disarm but I would rather disarm a gun than a knife anyday.


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## Gary Crawford (Aug 4, 2004)

Very good advice Mark,Let me add something here.Getting out of the way of a possible shot fired is essential.Istead of stepping,rotate torso out of way while simutaniosly grabbing top of weapon.If the shooter is holding gun in right hand,then right hand goes to top of gun.Left handed shooter means left hand goes on top.While top of gun is grabbed,the other hand goes to side bottom,twist gun barrel away from you and I like to catch the shooters finger in the trigger gaurd,if you do,pull gun downward with barrel pointed at shooter and either he goes down with it,or you break their finger(possibly even tear it off).There are so many possibilties with this scenerio,good to explore some new ones.


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## rmcrobertson (Aug 4, 2004)

Perhaps I'm hallucinating, but isn't the premise of Defying the Rod that the guy with the gun is too far away for you to get both of your hands on the weapon right away, and that the initial response--deflect the weapon with your left hand, simultaneous kick and eye-poke on the other side--is meant to a) address that distance; b) get you in close, so you can indeed use both hands?

I'd also point out what I suspect everybody already knows--that these techniques are to be used only as a last resort (when handing over your wallet, car keys, and pants just isn't working), in part because none of us can possibly have all that much real-world experience in using them.


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## Mark Weiser (Aug 4, 2004)

Absoultely you should never execute defensive moves aganist Knives and or Guns unless you know the criminal is going to use that weapon aganist you even after you have complied with the Criminals demands.


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## TwistofFat (Aug 4, 2004)

rmcrobertson said:
			
		

> I'd also point out what I suspect everybody already knows--that these techniques are to be used only as a last resort (when handing over your wallet, car keys, and pants just isn't working), in part because none of us can possibly have all that much real-world experience in using them.


Robert - I won't give up my pants, never! Good point on the distance reminder on DTR. Your opinion is spot on that this is a last resort in the real world. I was having trouble making this work in the dojo - I suspect we are too close (i.e. - I have to knee to the groin and eye poke).

Thanks for the input - Glenn.


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## MJS (Aug 5, 2004)

Mark Weiser said:
			
		

> Absoultely you should never execute defensive moves aganist Knives and or Guns unless you know the criminal is going to use that weapon aganist you even after you have complied with the Criminals demands.



I agree.  Giving up your keys, car, wallet, etc. is the wise move.  Those things can all be replaced...your life can not.  However, how can we tell exactly what the 'bad guy' is gonna do after we comply?? We dont!  You can give him anything he wants, and he can still turn around and blow your head off.  

So..another question to throw into the mix.  Do you execute the defense anyway, or just hope that he leaves after he gets what he wants??

Mike


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## rmcrobertson (Aug 5, 2004)

Nothing can guarantee outcomes--not how hard you train, or how many variables you try to think up--you cannot absolutely guarantee success.

What you can do is to improve your odds. And in most situations, the best way to improve your odds is to hand your stuff over, if the guy's got a gun or a knife and you cannot run fast enough.


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## BoneBreaker (Aug 24, 2004)

TwistofFat said:
			
		

> My left hand is admittedly weaker than my right


You should have equal "Coordination" with your left hand and your right hand in terms of applying the principles of motion. It should not require greater strength, but alas greater Coordination of both. Simplicity and repetition of physics in motion. Equal Coordination of essentially all motion on left and right side is required and should be achieved before recieveing your purple belt. no worries mate.


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