# It's gotta happen



## Flatlander

Soooooo, I've been reading through the old stuff here, and a question came to mind.  

Will there be another Modern Arnis symposium, ever?  Are there any leaders out there who would like to take another kick at the can, or do you all think the brotherhood needs a few years to settle from the last one?

I, for one, would love the opportunity to attend an event like that sometime.  As you all may know, I wasn't "on the scene" for the last one, but would have hitchiked to get there had it been tomorrow, rather than last year.  Reading through the list of instructors, I can't help but wonder if a training opportunity of that magnitude with such a huge pile of talent in one venue was only a one time thing.  

I sure as hell hope not.

Dan.


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## Cruentus

Well...I think it will happened more and more as time goes on, as the natural course of things. Datu Hartman and Punong Guro Marlino Hufana taught at the last WMAA camp. GM Worden, Guro Dantes, SM Dagooc, and the Presas kids get together and do events. Guro Parsons, Datu Bong and Hartman did an event that I hosted last year. Members of the MOTTs may decide to do more joint events in the future.

I think that gradually people will start getting together on their own merits, and their will be future grandious events with many different people on the floor from Modern Arnis. Master Jim Ladius (sp) said at the last IMAF, Inc. event that I dropped in on, "We all trained under the same roof at one time...it'll happen again.." I think that he is right...in the sense that at one time, Professor Remy was all our teachers. So...most of us will be able to get together again some day.

It doesn't need to be billed as a "symposium," but I think that events where many different instructors get together to train happen...and will happen more and more as time goes on...

 :ultracool  :asian:


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## Dan Anderson

I have been thinking of doing #2 here in the Pacific Northwest if the interest is there.  Let's see if this thread sparks interest or not.

Since there were a number of us who got many different things from PRof. Presas, I think the differences ins instructions styles alone would make it interesting.  I don't think you could get 6 more different people in one room than Tim, Kelly, Bram, Dieter, Dr. Schea and myself.  It could really rock.

Yours,
Dan Anderson


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## coreymin

Hey Everyone:

I talked to Dan Anderson today, and I would agree...another symposium or the like should and can happen...

On Oct. 16th, we have Datu Worden, SM Anderson, Master Ken Smith, Jr., and Shihan Annesi, aptly dubbed the Fab Four, headlining our WRCMA conference this year.  We have 3 masters from the PNW and one from New England, so it could happen.  For more information, hit our site at www.wrcma.org .

We also have additional instructors coming in:

Shihan Morris Mack, 9th Dan, Head of the Shudokan Karate Organization
Bob Anderson, 5th Dan Kajukenpo and security specialist lecturer
Sean Eastman, Conceptual Martial Arts, who is trained in TKD and Comtech
Master Jeff Bray, 5th Dan, Progressive Fighting Concepts
Guro Andrew Hewlitt, 2nd Dan, Progressive Fighting Concepts

Datu Worden is working on some other guests coming in to cross genres and focus on paper presentations as well...

So far, we have paper submissions from SM Dan Anderson, Shihan Annesi, Master Ken Smith, Betsy Minatani, George Hoover, Cale Merkley and others from the Spokane Modern Arnis group...

So if we can whip this sort of thing out, I see no reason why one cannot arrange the powers to be of the arnis world....

Corey Minatani


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## Flatlander

Dan Anderson said:
			
		

> I have been thinking of doing #2 here in the Pacific Northwest if the interest is there. Let's see if this thread sparks interest or not.


That's what I'm hoping for SM'S'DA.:asian:


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## Dan Anderson

coreymin said:
			
		

> Hey Everyone:
> 
> On Oct. 16th, we have Datu Worden, SM Anderson, Master Ken Smith, Jr., and Shihan Annesi, aptly dubbed the Fab Four, headlining our WRCMA conference this year.  Corey Minatani



I want to clarify that although we are titled the _Fab Four,_ we *are not* the Beatles.  I have no intention of becoming like John or George.  I have a lot to do yet.

On a straighter note, I am pumped about the conference.  This is going to be a (for lack of a better term) scholarly meeting.  The demos/workshops should be first rate and Corey is busting his butt to make this a very non-political event.  I am as positive about this event as I was about the Symposium.

You out on the east Coast will be able to meet Corey after July.  He's moving to Massassachusettes with his wife and family and has intentions of setting up a Martial Arts Research Center much like the WRCMA.  *Very* good idea and with his positive energy and intention, I think he could make a good go of it.

Yours,
Dan Anderson


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## coreymin

Dan Anderson said:
			
		

> You out on the east Coast will be able to meet Corey after July. He's moving to Massassachusettes with his wife and family and has intentions of setting up a Martial Arts Research Center much like the WRCMA. *Very* good idea and with his positive energy and intention, I think he could make a good go of it.
> 
> Yours,
> Dan Anderson


Hey Dan:

Thanks for the high energy.  In actuality, I will try to direct the WRCMA from MA.  My good buddy, Ken Smith, is taking the Washington State directorship in my place.  I will establish the MA branch, and act as State Director there, and try to recruit two regional directors to help me out.  One of the cool things about the WRCMA, no one person is actually the head of the organization, I founded it, but I take a back seat role and help others to develop research and writing skills.  By recruiting good people to regional directorships, the WRCMA instills some responsibility to new black belts to help them with organization, management, and logistical problems.  The state director, acting as the senior person, will help guide and mold these regional directors.  All in all, we hope to develop state directors and regional directors in all 50 states.  Right now I'm hoping some senior guy will help wrap up Oregon for me...

Corey


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## Datu Tim Hartman

Dan Anderson said:
			
		

> I have been thinking of doing #2 here in the Pacific Northwest if the interest is there.  Let's see if this thread sparks interest or not.
> 
> Since there were a number of us who got many different things from PRof. Presas, I think the differences ins instructions styles alone would make it interesting.  I don't think you could get 6 more different people in one room than Tim, Kelly, Bram, Dieter, Dr. Schea and myself.  It could really rock.
> 
> Yours,
> Dan Anderson




Are the instructors going to get paid this time? :jedi1:


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## Mark Lynn

FWIW

I would like to see something like the symposium happen again.  The professor had to many talented instructors out there for any sane person to see (Im trying   but then my wife doesn't think my obsession with the martial arts exactly sane) and it would help to see several of the instructors in one place.

However I would like to see something like the symposium was supposed to be like, with a bunch/several Modern Arnis instructors teaching.  Not what the symposium kind of became where it was more of a filipino martial arts gathering (I'M NOT KNOCKING THE SYMPOSIUM HERE NOR TRYING TO START THAT ALL UP AGAIN, IT WAS BEAT TO DEATH LAST YEAR.)  But the idea of what SM Dan mentioned of him, Kelly Worden, Dr. Schea, etc. etc. on the floor would be great.

From the sounds of this other event, it sounds like it would be cool as well but it's not just MA form the sounds of it rather it's a bunch of different martial arts sharing time on the floor, still cool, but I hoping for a Modern Arnis event myself. 

Is this Ken Smith of the MOTTS?  I thought he was in Chicago or somewhere?

Mark


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## mcjon77

The Boar Man said:
			
		

> FWIW
> 
> Is this Ken Smith of the MOTTS? I thought he was in Chicago or somewhere?
> 
> Mark


I don't think so, based on the info I read on the org's website.  This Ken Smith appears to be a ground fighting expert.  There was mention of his Goju-ryu, Sombo, and Jeet Kune Do training.  When people speak of Master Smith in Chicago (Orland Park to be exact) they usually speak of his training in Modern Arnis and Isshin Ryu Karate.

Jon


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## Bob Hubbard

Personally, I'd love to see all 6 Datus, the Motts, and a number of seniors all at one event.  I mean, the same core but a dozen different interpretations and extentions would be a wonder.


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## Emptyglass

Datu Puti said:
			
		

> Are the instructors going to get paid this time? :jedi1:



Hi all:

A good question is SHOULD they want/ask to be paid? I would think travel and lodging would be a fair deal for out-of-town instructors if they don't have other arrangements. However, if the idea of the gathering (I won't use the word Symposium because its obvious to me there are still hard feelings about that word from some people) is to promote, show off, expand, trade and spread the art of Modern Arnis/FMA in a free-thinking and free-flowing exchange of information, should an instructor feel that sort of event is something larger than "just another payday" or a chance to do something to unify and strengthen what seems to me to be a very fragmented and factionalized martial arts system in the United States.

I see these sorts of events as an opportunity for learning for not only the lower-ranking students who choose to attend them, but also a chance for leading system heads to see what the others are up to. To trade and learn from each other and to examine a different take on what they might have thought their art REALLY was by seeing it presented by someone with equitable skills but a different viewpoint. Also it is a chance to honor the memory of Grandmaster Remy A. Presas by showing that work is continuing to be done on the art he dedicated his life to by his leading students. A chance to still show respect even though he now is gone and a chance to be a leader, a Datu (in spirit if not in actual title) if you will, by setting aside egos/personal feelings/needs for the greater good of the art for a couple of days.

In terms of income, perhaps showing all kinds of people from different reaches of the system your take on the subject might get you some new students. At the very least it will allow you to show your peers what you have discovered works for you and perhaps changes the minds of a few people who might have once thought of you as "rival" and walk away from the event thinking of you as "brother".

Just some things to think about.

Thanks,

Rich Curren


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## DoxN4cer

Another symposium type event would be wonderful.  I guess that I'll have to miss it this time around, since I'm so far away. 

With so many personalities that are out there,  I would guarantee that if more people came forward to support it there would be a truly great event. 

Tim Kashino


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## loki09789

The symposium idea is a good thing IMO.  AS LONG AS the intent is to celebrate, respect and learn from all those who have taken MA in so many different directions.

Paid instructors or not, the philosophical reward/goal should be to share and compare how each of these artists have "made it their own" by either organizing MA as a stand alone art or blending it with another art - making both better because of that blending.  I remember seeing both stand alone artists, blenders and innovators who took the spirit of MA and ran with it at the last one.

These symposiums should NOT be Re-enactors conventions/Ren Fest types of events that ONLY showcase recycling/repetition of the physical drills, skills and movements that RP passed on through MA.  There should be respect for the innovators, tree shakers and hard workers who have built on what they learned in MA but "Made it their own" by applying that knowledge in a special and unique way.  Through demonstration, verbal discussion, scholarly 'defense'/rationale those who have carried on the MA spirit of translation/innovation should be showcased as well.  The spirit of MA 'tradition' is far more important to me than just being 'traditional' in strict MA movement.

So many discussions have touched on how MA is an actual performance/physical art form AND a conceptual training approach.  Both directions should be recognized.  There may be a foundation of MA, but criticism or negativity like "That isn't MA" because it isn't only the physical art that RP taught has no place in a symposium.


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## Dan Anderson

> Are the instructors going to get paid this time?


If possible, yes.  We'd have to discuss whether it would be a flat rate, part of a percentage profits split or what have you.



> Is this Ken Smith of the MOTTS?


This Ken Smith is a certified JKD instructor in Washington state and also an NSI black belt.  He's quite tall where MoTT Ken Smith is average height.



> Personally, I'd love to see all 6 Datus, the Motts, and a number of seniors all at one event. I mean, the same core but a dozen different interpretations and extentions would be a wonder.


This would be THE ideal including Bram Frank as well.  I think having all of them would be cost prohibitive.



> A good question is SHOULD they want/ask to be paid?


Ideally, yes.  



> The symposium idea is a good thing IMO. AS LONG AS the intent is to celebrate, respect and learn from all those who have taken MA in so many different directions.


I have a different direction I would like to take and that is having the seniors in western (US & Europe) Modern arnis teach and demonstrate their skills. AS I have said before, Remy Presas approached us all in different ways.  We all have a piece of the pie, so to speak, and the presentation alone of all of us would be worth the price of admission itself.

We all move differently within the same art from the same teacher.  We stress different aspects fo the same art.  That is what I'd like to see in this Sympo.  If I take the ball and run with it, that's the direction I'll take it.  Again, it could really rock!

Yours,
Dan Anderson

PS- Tim K.  We could have George tape it again if things work out and you could get the DVD.


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## Rich Parsons

Dan Anderson said:
			
		

> PS- Tim K.  We could have George tape it again if things work out and you could get the DVD.



I have my copies.


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## DoxN4cer

Dan Anderson said:
			
		

> PS- Tim K.  We could have George tape it again if things work out and you could get the DVD.




Hell yeah.


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## DoxN4cer

loki09789 said:
			
		

> The symposium idea is a good thing IMO.  AS LONG AS the intent is to celebrate, respect and learn from all those who have taken MA in so many different directions.
> 
> Paid instructors or not, the philosophical reward/goal should be to share and compare how each of these artists have "made it their own" by either organizing MA as a stand alone art or blending it with another art - making both better because of that blending.  I remember seeing both stand alone artists, blenders and innovators who took the spirit of MA and ran with it at the last one.
> 
> These symposiums should NOT be Re-enactors conventions/Ren Fest types of events that ONLY showcase recycling/repetition of the physical drills, skills and movements that RP passed on through MA.  There should be respect for the innovators, tree shakers and hard workers who have built on what they learned in MA but "Made it their own" by applying that knowledge in a special and unique way.  Through demonstration, verbal discussion, scholarly 'defense'/rationale those who have carried on the MA spirit of translation/innovation should be showcased as well.  The spirit of MA 'tradition' is far more important to me than just being 'traditional' in strict MA movement.
> 
> So many discussions have touched on how MA is an actual performance/physical art form AND a conceptual training approach.  Both directions should be recognized.  There may be a foundation of MA, but criticism or negativity like "That isn't MA" because it isn't only the physical art that RP taught has no place in a symposium.



Amen to that, Paul. You and Rich Curren made some really important points on "showcasing" the art. Bring what you have, people shouldn't mimic the Professor and chant his name as a mantra when they have nothing real to contribute to the art.  Show how you've made it your own.

TK


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## Flatlander

SM'S'DA, if you could keep us informed of your ideas and progress on this topic I would really appreciate that.

You keep qualifying this with "might" and "maybe"....what reservations, if any do you have to organizing this?

Honestly, Dan, I can't think of a better guy for the job.  You've got my vote.  Thanks.

To everybody: 

It's great to hear your feedback on this, I wasn't sure if I should bring it up or not.  You all sound pretty positive, and that's refreshing.


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## Dan Anderson

flatlander said:
			
		

> You keep qualifying this with "might" and "maybe"....what reservations, if any do you have to organizing this?
> 
> Honestly, Dan, I can't think of a better guy for the job.  You've got my vote.  Thanks.
> 
> To everybody:
> 
> It's great to hear your feedback on this, I wasn't sure if I should bring it up or not.  You all sound pretty positive, and that's refreshing.


Flatlander,
*Reservations:*
1.  If he attended, could everybody work with Jeff Delaney?
2.  Would anybody commit and then later pull out?
3.  If there were no cash for anybody, would they still teach/show up?
4.  Would there be squabbles regarding who goes on when (1st, 2nd, 3rd, 
     etc.)?
5.  Would I get support in promoting this event or would everybody sit on
    their hands and wait to see what happened
6.  Would I get demands like "If (insert name here) is on the bill, I'm not 
     going to show up.  It's your call."?
7.  Or, "Unless (insert name here) is on the bill, I'm not going to show up.  It's
    your call."

As much as I liked the first Symposium, it ran up against a number of difficulties that I would rather not have at the second one.

Yours,
Dan Anderson


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## Cruentus

I think that Rich Parsons should be there to teach...representing the Flint group, or FMAC.  With Master Power (head of FMAC) having been one of Professors private students in the 70's and having kept his relationship up with the old man through the 90's, Flint is an important part of the Modern Arnis 'hidden history.' Rich is a good representation of the club.

Just didn't want to see him left out as a possability...

 :supcool:


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## Flatlander

Well, if anybody was so weak and self-centered as to validate those concerns, let'em go.  Their directives are obviously not in line with any sort of brotherhood.  Organization, coming together, rebuilding, it's all a process.  

I would be willing to bet that as more and more of these events happen, more and more players will come out to support, so as not to be left behind or alone.  Maybe I'm wrong...who's to say.  We can't predict the future.  Nonetheless, *you're the man* for even having entertained the idea.

IMHO.

Thanks.


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## Dan Anderson

DoxN4cer said:
			
		

> Amen to that, Paul. You and Rich Curren made some really important points on "showcasing" the art. Bring what you have, people shouldn't mimic the Professor and chant his name as a mantra when they have nothing real to contribute to the art.  Show how you've made it your own.
> 
> TK



Tim,

*Wow!*  You and I disagree on something for once.  I'm marking this date on my calendar.  Rich and Paul did do a fine job in showcasing how they made the art their own.  No disagreement there.  For me, a 2nd Symposium would consist of the senior students of Remy Presas, preferably long term first generation students or high rankers (as opposed to high rollers - that has nothing to do with anything in this thread.  The term just popped into my head.)  Neither Rich nor Paul are high rankers under RP.  That's all.  

Yours,
Dan Anderson

PS - For those of you who are wincing, Rich, Paul and I are in good communication and I know they will not read anything diabolical, underhanded, or double meaning into what I just posted.  We cool.


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## Dieter

Dan Anderson said:
			
		

> Flatlander,
> *Reservations:*
> 1.  If he attended, could everybody work with Jeff Delaney?
> 2.  Would anybody commit and then later pull out?
> 3.  If there were no cash for anybody, would they still teach/show up?
> 4.  Would there be squabbles regarding who goes on when (1st, 2nd, 3rd,
> etc.)?
> 5.  Would I get support in promoting this event or would everybody sit on
> their hands and wait to see what happened
> 6.  Would I get demands like "If (insert name here) is on the bill, I'm not
> going to show up.  It's your call."?
> 7.  Or, "Unless (insert name here) is on the bill, I'm not going to show up.  It's
> your call."
> 
> As much as I liked the first Symposium, it ran up against a number of difficulties that I would rather not have at the second one.
> 
> Yours,
> Dan Anderson




Hi Dan

You ask the right questions.

I´d like to see it happen, supported by all groups.

Regards

Dieter Knüttel
Datu of Modern Arnis


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## Cruentus

Dan Anderson said:
			
		

> Flatlander,
> *Reservations:*
> 1.  If he attended, could everybody work with Jeff Delaney?
> 2.  Would anybody commit and then later pull out?
> 3.  If there were no cash for anybody, would they still teach/show up?
> 4.  Would there be squabbles regarding who goes on when (1st, 2nd, 3rd,
> etc.)?
> 5.  Would I get support in promoting this event or would everybody sit on
> their hands and wait to see what happened
> 6.  Would I get demands like "If (insert name here) is on the bill, I'm not
> going to show up.  It's your call."?
> 7.  Or, "Unless (insert name here) is on the bill, I'm not going to show up.  It's
> your call."
> 
> As much as I liked the first Symposium, it ran up against a number of difficulties that I would rather not have at the second one.
> 
> Yours,
> Dan Anderson



I'll help...

1. I could "work with" anyone, and when it comes down to it, I think everyone can. Even if one would prefer not too.

2. I am sure some people will...however, don't let that hurt your credability. If someone tells you a month in advance that they have pulled out, make sure you say that is the case. If someone simply "no shows," then that is their credability...they'll be known as a "no show-er." Hopefully people will show.

3. I wouldn't count on it. People don't value things if they aren't getting paid. Plus...People should get paid something...period. I may stick to commitments and my word regardless of money...but I don't expect others to do the same.

4. Yes there will be. Never underestimate the ability for people to be stupid.

5. I would support you any way I can, Dan.

6. I am sure people will do that. Hopefully, most won't...

7. Same as #6.

Your going to run into the same difficulties as the last one. The difference will be in how you handle them as a host...

 :ultracool


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## Cruentus

Dan Anderson said:
			
		

> Tim,
> 
> *Wow!*  You and I disagree on something for once.  I'm marking this date on my calendar.  Rich and Paul did do a fine job in showcasing how they made the art their own.  No disagreement there.  For me, a 2nd Symposium would consist of the senior students of Remy Presas, preferably long term first generation students or high rankers (as opposed to high rollers - that has nothing to do with anything in this thread.  The term just popped into my head.)  Neither Rich nor Paul are high rankers under RP.  That's all.
> 
> Yours,
> Dan Anderson
> 
> PS - For those of you who are wincing, Rich, Paul and I are in good communication and I know they will not read anything diabolical, underhanded, or double meaning into what I just posted.  We cool.



Just to be sure...you are talking about Rich Curren and Paul Martin, correct, and NOT Rich Parsons and Paul Janulis?

It's weird when we share names...


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## Dan Anderson

Tim Kashino was referring to Rich Curren and Paul Martin.  *Both* of these guys did great presentations.  You and Rich Parsons did so as well.  As I wrote TK, I wanted the seniors of Modern Arnis to line the bill and if Sympo #2 suffered from sameness, then *I* screwed up.

Personally, I've seen the majority of them teach and sameness isn't going to be _any_ kind of problem.

Yours,
Dan Anderson

PS - I'm off to Canada for a Bram seminar.  Unless I get online somewhere, I'll be quiet for a couple of days.  I'll tell Bram hello for all of you.


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## Flatlander

Dan Anderson said:
			
		

> PS - I'm off to Canada for a Bram seminar.


Dan - this is alarming to me...where is the seminar?  Where was it advertised?


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## Datu Tim Hartman

Dan Anderson said:
			
		

> For me, a 2nd Symposium would consist of the senior students of Remy Presas, preferably long term first generation students or high rankers



To bad this wasn't done during the first one.


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## Emptyglass

Dan Anderson said:
			
		

> PS - For those of you who are wincing, Rich, Paul and I are in good communication and I know they will not read anything diabolical, underhanded, or double meaning into what I just posted.  We cool.



Indeed. What he said.

Thanks for the kind words Dan. Your presentation (especially the bit on entering an opponent's zone of control) at the 2003 Symposium taught me some incredibly useful lessons.

All the best,

Rich Curren


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## DoxN4cer

Datu Puti said:
			
		

> To bad this wasn't done during the first one.



Can't be a star all the time...


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## DoxN4cer

Dan Anderson said:
			
		

> Tim,
> 
> *Wow!*  You and I disagree on something for once.  I'm marking this date on my calendar.  Rich and Paul did do a fine job in showcasing how they made the art their own.  No disagreement there.  For me, a 2nd Symposium would consist of the senior students of Remy Presas, preferably long term first generation students or high rankers (as opposed to high rollers - that has nothing to do with anything in this thread.  The term just popped into my head.)  Neither Rich nor Paul are high rankers under RP.  That's all.
> 
> Yours,
> Dan Anderson
> 
> PS - For those of you who are wincing, Rich, Paul and I are in good communication and I know they will not read anything diabolical, underhanded, or double meaning into what I just posted.  We cool.




I can see your reasoning, Dan; no argument here.


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## Guro Harold

DoxN4cer said:
			
		

> Bring what you have, people shouldn't mimic the Professor and chant his name as a mantra when they have nothing real to contribute to the art.  Show how you've made it your own.
> 
> TK


Great point!


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## DoxN4cer

Palusut said:
			
		

> Great point!



Thank you.


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## DoxN4cer

Datu Puti said:
			
		

> Are the instructors going to get paid this time? :jedi1:



Money isn't everything...


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## DoxN4cer

What follows in bold was posted as a comment on my rep board:

*Hard to pay for a transatlantic plane flight without it. Not all suck at the teet of unca slam.*

Not that the reputation feature matters to me; its the ignorant and cowardly method of message delivery that is irritating, like a bothersome insect.  When the coward posted this has the stones and expertise to do what I do day in and day out, then and only then can he make credible opinions about making a living and earning wages through military service.  

Come to Catania, you worm.  I'll pick you up at the airport, and you can come see how your military suckles at Liberty's bossom. I would be more than happy to give you the privelage to walk a mile in the boots of any of my troops.  Come and see, if you think that you can hang with them.  Maybe I can even set up a seminar... no, maybe not, you'd be too tired after trying to keep up with us.


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## Flatlander

Well, sounds like someone's got issues.  Sorry for even bringing the subject up.  I guess the 'brotherhood' ain't ready yet.  Sorry to waste everyone's time with this.


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## Bob Hubbard

It's funny.....Tim K's right.

Money isn't everything.  You would hope that those involved in such things would do it for the love of the art, the comradere, the celebration.

Unfortunately, hotels, car/train/plane/bus fare, food, etc all cost money.
Not all of the seniors are wealthy enough to eat a couple hundred to a couple thousand bucks.  Facilities cost money, so does insurance, advertising, etc.

So, the question of getting paid is a good one, especially if the event is going to charge admission.  I've been to enough seminars, conventions, etc to know, you gotta charge to get in, and you gotta pay the talent and the rent.

My 2cents.

(Which adjusted for inflation, is worth about as much as the paper its printed on.)


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## DoxN4cer

flatlander said:
			
		

> Well, sounds like someone's got issues.  Sorry for even bringing the subject up.  I guess the 'brotherhood' ain't ready yet.  Sorry to waste everyone's time with this.



You're not wasting anybody's time.  If they din't have time to kill, then they would be fooling around on the internet.  I'm all for "brotherhood", but every now and then one of our brothers needs to be checked.


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## Mark Lynn

Guys

Before the thread gets off subject remember what this is about, a 2nd gathering of senior Modern Arnis instructors.  For some people out here we will take the chance that everyone will show and travel the distance to get the chance to train with these people.  Let's not screw things up rehashing the crap that went on last year, otherwise why would SM Dan even bother with it.

Dan, if Jeff Delaney is asked and he comes to the gathering/event what ever that wouldn't have any negative impact on me coming.  Jeff has taught me some good stuff over the years, if the MOTTS come all the better, Dr. Shea, Rocky, Bram, Remy Jr, Dr. Matias, Datus Dieter, Worden and Hartman, several of these guys would be great.

No offense (to the presenters at the Symposium) but when I traveled to the SYMPOSIUM last year I had hoped to see some of the guys who dropped out.  I'll be glad to spend the bucks to come out there to see the senior players, but if you can't get some of the older/senior students. 

In fact if it was a three day event, it would be better.  More time on the floor to spend with the presenters.  Go for it Dan you have my vote.

FWIW at the very least the presenters should get travel and hotel expenses picked up.  I understand that it would probably shoot the expeneses way over the top if the presenters requested their usual seminar fees, bringing in serveal presenters is cost prohibitive enough with all of the airfare, hotels etc. etc.  I hope you can pull it off.

Mark


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## Mark Lynn

Dan

You have to make up mind if you want the thing to happen in OCT. and you want this old boy from TX to be there.  My birthdayis coming up in August and I need to know what to ask for, like "well honey there is this camp in Oreagon that I would like to attend"   , I was kind of thinking on Bram's DVDs and the Presas bolo but I would forego that if you're going to have the event  artyon: 

However it will take me a couople of months to convince her that I need to go, so I need the time to work on her, butter her up and get the kitchen pass you know.  If I play my cards right, I might get the DVD's and the gathering  artyon:  artyon: 

yeah right.
Mark

Dang it's late time for bed.


----------



## Flatlander

In the end, as a student, I would be more than happy to pay whatever it took to be at a  gathering of the best talent that could be possibly brought together.  Whatever it takes.  I want to see these guys move.  I want to feel it.  

Whatever it takes.  I said it before, I'll say it again.  SM Dan, if I need to sell apples downtown to help you get the talent in, I'll do it.  And I'll be there.    

Peace, good Gentlemen.  Let us come together in productive ways.


----------



## Dan Anderson

Hi Guys,

In Canada now (6 hour drive and I forgot my passport - eeeyah) and am dog tired.  I'm looking at a date in 2005.  This is not an "in a couple of months" venture.  I'm slowly talking to the principals in the instruction end before I make any kind of jump.  Unfortunately, Modern Arnis is still somewhat in the American Kenpo stage, lots of infighting yet.  So, I want to ensure this is goiong to come off well.  Thanks for the great initial support.  Now, if anyone wants to give me imput regarding promotion of such an event, send it through to me via my website.

Drowsily yours,
Dan Anderson


----------



## Dan Anderson

flatlander said:
			
		

> Dan - this is alarming to me...where is the seminar?  Where was it advertised?



Vancouver, BC.  See the CSSDSC Canada website.  There will be details there.  Spokane is next weekend.

Yours,
Dan


----------



## Bob Hubbard

Just a side note: If there is an abuse of the rep system, there is a right way and a wrong way to deal with it. 
Contacting the admins so we can investigate = right. 
Publically exploding = wrong.

Consider this notice that comments made inside the rep system are subject to the same rules as comments made in full view.

I now return you to the discussion on Dans impending total baldness. 
Please direct additional offtopic discussion to a new thread.

Thank you.


----------



## Dan Anderson

Kaith Rustaz said:
			
		

> I now return you to the discussion on Dans impending total baldness.
> 
> Thank you.



Dear Kaith,
If you go so blatantly off topic again I'll report you to the mods.  :boing1: 

Back from Canada.  Had a great time cutting and smacking, smacking and cutting.  Met this really cool knife maker and got a blade from him.  Met some new people including the famous "Ms. Amy."  Like I said, had a great time.  

Yours,
Dan


----------



## Flatlander

Welcome back SM Dan.  So, having had the weekend to mull it over, where are you with this?  How do you feel?


----------



## Dan Anderson

I feel tired.  6 hour trip and 6 hours of sleep (heh heh).  I know, I know - that's not what you meant.  I have sounded out Bram and Dieter and they are for it.  I need to sound out a number of the other seniors.  Then I'll see.  Anyone from the first list who does not want to participate, then there will be my picks from the second list.  I hate to term it that way because at the top of my "next list" is Rich Parsons and anyone who has worked with him knows he is first rate.

Also, one thing I will make known right off the bat is I will keep *NO* personal communications private regarding the 2nd Symposium.  None.  If you don't want it repeated, don't say or write it to me.  To do this right it needs to be completely above board.

Now, like I said in a previous post, any help regarding publicizing this, mailing lists or what have you will be *greatly appreciated*.

Personally, I would love to do this.  This event would really rock and could be a perfect set up for the 2006 memorial event in the PI.  Like I said, I need to talk to some people first.

Yours,
Dan Anderson


----------



## Cruentus

Cool Dan...

Let me know if there is anything I can do to help...

PAUL :asian:


----------



## Datu Tim Hartman

Ive been busy and havent had much online time. Let me try to catch up.



			
				Emptyglass said:
			
		

> 1. A good question is SHOULD they want/ask to be paid?


Why not? This is what I do for a living. My mechanic doesnt work on my car out of some sense of loyalty to his trade. Its because I pay him.



			
				Emptyglass said:
			
		

> 2. I would think travel and lodging would be a fair deal for out-of-town instructors if they don't have other arrangements.


This wasnt done at the 1st Symposium. As a professional Martial artist I dont feel that I should have to pay to teach, yet that is what happened at the Symposium for many if not *ALL* the instructors. I could be wrong maybe Im the only one who didnt get paid. It would have been nice if someone could have paid for dinner, drinks, even Mc Donalds would have been ok.




			
				Emptyglass said:
			
		

> 3. should an instructor feel that sort of event is something larger than *"just another payday"*


Well it was a payday for someone. There were over 20 participants paying $195 - $295. This is $4,000  $6,000, were did all the money go. It looks like there was *"another payday"* for someone. The host? http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6094&highlight=symposium

I have asked a simple question that will benefit ALL who might teach at Dans event. If it is out now it will make it easier to deal with it in the future. Dan and I have discussed this already. He and I are on the same page. I think some people on this thread should probably open their eyes and take a long hard look at the facts.
 :asian:


----------



## Datu Tim Hartman

DoxN4cer said:
			
		

> Can't be a star all the time...


Heres the problem. At the last minute there were bunch of second generation no names put in because of instructor canceling. Why put then in at all? There were plenty of *quality instructors * there already. It was quite evident of the substitutes lack of _*experience* _ as well as _*knowledge.*_ I feel that the *PAYING* members of the Symposium were given an inferior product. This has nothing to do with stardom and everything to do with *customer service!*

Respectfully,
DTJH
 :asian:


----------



## loki09789

Well, so much for "coexisting peacefully" and not dredging up old business as you have stated on the resurrected "Interesting topic" thread, Tim.  

I thought the point of the discussion was how, when, where any future symposiums would take place....

This 'bash the Symposium' business is 'old' and already has a thread if you want to start it up again.  Specifics, info before you make Inquirer level 'speculations' would be nice too.  If you don't know anything except that you didn't get paid/fed/or charged BUT DID get the chance to sell product and make profit from those sales that was greater than the cost of your participation fee (which you were not charged) would have been, I would say that it wasn't so bad for a short drive into the city.  It was local and you volunteered to participate. 

No one 'made you' say yes - even when you knew you weren't going to be paid.

As per the mods request on other threads, if it isn't on topic, please use email or PM for any 'off topic' responses.


----------



## Datu Tim Hartman

Paul,
I'm sorry if you misunderstand where I'm coming from. This *IS * in responce to points that were brought up in this thread by Curren.



			
				loki09789 said:
			
		

> As per the mods request on other threads, if it isn't on topic, please use email or PM for any 'off topic' responses.


BTW, when did you become a mod?

Respectfully your, :asian:


----------



## Datu Tim Hartman

loki09789 said:
			
		

> No one 'made you' say yes - even when you knew you weren't going to be paid.



Actually I was lead to believe otherwise. Had I known that the host was the only one to be paid, I wouldn't participated at the event.

Respectfully your, :asian:


----------



## loki09789

Datu Puti said:
			
		

> Heres the problem. At the last minute there were bunch of second generation no names put in because of instructor canceling. Why put then in at all? There were plenty of *quality instructors *there already. It was quite evident of the substitutes lack of _*experience* _as well as _*knowledge.*_ I feel that the *PAYING* members of the Symposium were given an inferior product. This has nothing to do with stardom and everything to do with *customer service!*
> 
> Respectfully,
> DTJH
> :asian:


IT was quite evident...what are you trying to say with that line?

If, by lack of experience, those who presented weren't doing Remy Re enactments, you are right on. Lack of knowledge? This is the attitude that I am referring to in my last post when I was talking about the "That isn't what Remy Taught" mentallity. What was demonstrated was done because of instructor cancellations, but was used as a chance to show how RP's teachings have been taken in different directions/applications.

If I remember correctly, for those paying customers who were looking for first gen instructors, there were plenty to pick from during every instructional rotation. Dan, you, Tom Bolden, Bram, Dieter, Jerome....not the full list, but even with the cancellations, plenty of 'old guard' types to satisify that 'RP Authenticity' itch.

Those who wanted to see other ways/directions that RP's MA concepts were being used could see the others.

I graded one of your instructional sessions on the floor, Tim. I graded your instructional presentation well as well as your material. The knife stuff you were doing was based MA but your own organizational material...so, it was how you chose to "make it your own."


----------



## Datu Tim Hartman

Paul,

I was just responding to Tim and Rich C. We all have different opinions. I didn't say there wasn't 1st gen people there, what I said was there was no need for the second string to teach. I'm sorry if you misuderstood the intent of my post. :asian: 


Respectfully yours, :asian:


----------



## Datu Tim Hartman

Dan Anderson said:
			
		

> For me, a 2nd Symposium would consist of the senior students of Remy Presas, preferably long term first generation students or high rankers.




This is what I meant. Some of the people who taught at the 1st event weren't even black belts in Modern Arnis.

Respetfully yours, :asian: 
DTJH 

P.S. - I'm off to bed.


----------



## loki09789

Datu Puti said:
			
		

> Actually I was lead to believe otherwise. Had I known that the host was the only one to be paid, I wouldn't participated at the event.
> 
> Respectfully your, :asian:


In business transactions, no one 'leads you to believe' anything.  I am sure that, like your mechanic, you know how to ensure clarity in verbal contracts/agreements to avoid confusion and to promote clarity.  



I know Jerome well enough to know that in money dealings he keeps his ducks in a row.  He has to when dealing with the college.  If he was in the habit of double dealing, his name would have been in the paper like the former Dean, and I stress FORMER .  

I think discussing the private transactions/business dealings in any specific detail this way is tasteless to say the least, but I will say that Jerome knows how the money was spent/earned.  I do know that there were some cases when Jerome honored discounts, covered 'paid' invites, didn't charge instructors in recognition instructional time did cover some accomodation/meal coverages for out of towners but the case by case specifics would be known to those directly involved and not by you.  Why begrudge him a paycheck when that is what you are seeking.

Just ask him instead of dodging his attempts at direct communication, resolution and really finding a productive "peaceful coexistence" instead of running from him.
 
If you wanted to know more, just ask Jerome, instead of these implicative comments, as if Jerome ran a scam on the attendees.

But,really is getting paid that big a deal when you did get to sell product and you were getting local exposure for your school?  If you don't mind offering up your school to Bram for free, what is a few hours on the floor instructing when you get to work out with and train under some of the other "old guard" in return for your time?

Again, these questions/topics have been covered about the last symposium.  Rich's question was really in the direction of fraternity building, not to be used as a way to open up old garbage.... which you claim NOT to be interested in discussion in the spirit of "peaceful coexistence"


If you would answer any of Jerome's attempts to contact/communicate with you, you might be able to talk this old business out with him/seek real understanding instead of talking about him in front of other people - even when you don't say his name outright.



Am I a mod? No, but I did read and was hoping that we could both honor BART's request from the "Interesting topic" thread.


----------



## Emptyglass

Datu Puti said:
			
		

> I feel that the *PAYING* members of the Symposium were given an inferior product. This has nothing to do with stardom and everything to do with *customer service!*



OK, now let me see if I have this straight. After a year of smashing, bashing, and trashing the first Modern Arnis Symposium and pretty much everything to do with it in every respect you are now trying to tell everyone that you are the champion of customer service on behalf of all of the people who slighted due to the quality of the instruction?

So, who, pray tell, has complained about the quality of the Symposium or the instructors? I haven't seen anything but positive reviews as to the instruction from the people who attended and decided to report upon it. Who was dissatisfied or felt they wanted their money back? I paid full price, in advance for the Symposium and I certainly don't feel cheated.

I came away from that event with new knowledge, new friends, and new contacts. Mostly because I went in with an open mind and heart in the spirit of further learning and love for the art.

Who were the inferior instructors which you (in your esteemed estimation) felt were not worthy of instructing there? Punong Guro Tom Bolden? Senior Master Bram Frank? Senior Master Dan Anderson? Datu Deiter Knuttel? Yourself? That's 5 rather high-ranking and esteemed Modern Arnis instructors in one seminar. Most people would be quite satisfied with 2 intensive days of instruction of that quality. Were you not paying attention during those 2 days? Did you miss all of these people?

Who were the second raters? Dawhud Muhammud? Rich Parsons? Paul Martin? Tim Kashino? Paul Janulis? Sifu Peter Vargas? Everyone seemed quite pleased with their presentations. I certainly was. Please state who you feel wasn't up to snuff. You made that accusation of people being second raters. Please follow through and give us your opinion.

Also, what's the deal with this first generation/second generation elitism. Good information and concepts are good information and concepts. Maybe some second-generation students were more talented or paid more attention than their instructors (this is a hypothetical reference and not a criticism of anyone). Maybe their instructors were very good in their own right and had a different take on the art than the Grandmaster. Who cares? I'll learn from anyone who can teach me something, regardless of their removal from a system head.

My questions were based upon my belief that the purpose of the Symposium were two-fold. First and foremost to show the world that some students have RESPECT for the Grandmaster of YOUR martial art who is now gone and to show everyone that even though the man has died, the spirit of adaptation, inventiveness, and creativity which he applied to the classical arts of his homeland (the Philippine Islands) and which he chose to share with all of us are still progressing and being cared for as if he was still here. You were invited to be a part of that celebration. I guess that doesn't mean much to you. I considered it an honor.

Secondly, to attempt to show everyone in the martial arts world that the spirit of brotherhood, cooperation, and LOVE OF THE ART existed between practicioners of Modern Arnis (and its derivatives and supporting systems) and that politics, greed, market share, popularity, and ego have not dominated entirely within the Modern Arnis family as they have in many other martial arts systems who have lost the system head and fallen into strife and squabbling for superiority.

If you want to talk to Senior Master Dan about money, why bring it up here? Why not, as you have stated you have done, discuss it with him privately? If you feel you should have been paid and weren't, why not take it up with Dr. Barber and ask him for an accounting of the funds. Oh, that's right, you won't meet or talk with him.

As a participant of the first Modern Arnis Symposium, I have to say that your current rash of internet whinging about it over a year later smacks of sour grapes to me. If you want something done about how you were treated/compensated/rewarded, take it up with the people or persons who can do something about it. We can't help you with that. Either let it go or make a move. I would and I'm not even a high-ranking, world-travelling Modern Arnis datu with his own organization, students, etc...

For anyone out there who feels I am being disrespectful or rude to their instructor, friend, Datu, system head or whatever, please understand that I've known Tim Hartman since before he or I ever started learning Filipino Martial Arts (about 20 years). We attended the same high school, lived in the same town, had the same friends and hung out in the same places. He introduced me to the Filipino Martial Arts at John Bryant's school in Buffalo, NY in the mid-80's and for that I am grateful as he opened my eyes to a whole world of learning and culture which has affected me profoundly. That being said, this behavior is beneath the status of someone who is supposed to be a Datu as I view it. Also, I was never his student which may have shaped some of my opinions and my willingness to speak them.

All of this from a lowly non-first generation student of Modern Arnis of no stature.

With the deepest sincerity and respect for the Art and those who progress it,

Richard S. Curren
Satisfied attendee of the first Modern Arnis Symposium, July 2003


----------



## loki09789

Datu Puti said:
			
		

> Paul,
> 
> I was just responding to Tim and Rich C. We all have different opinions. I didn't say there wasn't 1st gen people there, what I said was there was no need for the second string to teach. I'm sorry if you misuderstood the intent of my post. :asian:
> 
> 
> Respectfully yours, :asian:


Actually I was asking about the convoluted "It was quite evident of the substitutes lack of experience as well as knowledge" statement. That isn't very well stated and I am seeking clarification. I don't 'craft' when I post here either, so I just want to know what you wanted to say with that.

As far as your intent, connotations and implications... it is pretty clear.

BTW, how is it that so many of your posts got reshuffled?  I have been watching this thread and suddenly you have posts ahead of others that weren't there before this last hit?


----------



## Emptyglass

Dan Anderson said:
			
		

> I have been thinking of doing #2 here in the Pacific Northwest if the interest is there.  Let's see if this thread sparks interest or not.
> 
> Since there were a number of us who got many different things from PRof. Presas, I think the differences ins instructions styles alone would make it interesting.  I don't think you could get 6 more different people in one room than Tim, Kelly, Bram, Dieter, Dr. Schea and myself.  It could really rock.
> 
> Yours,
> Dan Anderson



Senior Master Dan:

If I am welcome, I will do my best to attend and support this event if I am able.

Rich Curren


----------



## loki09789

Datu Puti said:
			
		

> This is what I meant. Some of the people who taught at the 1st event weren't even black belts in Modern Arnis.
> 
> Respetfully yours, :asian:
> DTJH
> 
> P.S. - I'm off to bed.


Who might those be?  As far as I knew, everyone was at least a Black belt in Modern Arnis, though they might not have been 'ranked' by RP himself.


----------



## Bob Hubbard

loki09789 said:
			
		

> BTW, how is it that so many of your posts got reshuffled? I have been watching this thread and suddenly you have posts ahead of others that weren't there before this last hit?


Some stuff runs on timers, and occasuionally a post gets stuck in the queue until we release it.  I've been reading this thread though, and haven't noticed any reshuffling myself. At the top-right corner are post#'s.  Can you PM me what switched around and I'll check the logs.


----------



## Datu Tim Hartman

loki09789 said:
			
		

> Who might those be?  As far as I knew, everyone was at least a Black belt in Modern Arnis, though they might not have been 'ranked' by RP himself.




We can go back and forth on this and both sides wont agree. I was explaining my comments based on experiences in the past that some of the viewers might not have read. Im not going to turn this into something its not.

Paul,
Rich P. and Paul J should be coming to Buffalo in August. I suggest that you and Tom should stop by the school at that time so we can *all* discuss this face to face and clear up some of this history.

Rich, 
I will be in your area in August and I was already planning on trying to meet with you for coffee or something. 

I feel that we have a better chance of putting things to rest after some personal face to face communication. I have said since the beginning on MT that the written format leaves out a lot of facial expressions as well as the tone of one voice.

Dan,
As I said the other day, I do support your efforts on this project. This thread has a lot of information, both good and bad. It can be a very good tool to help your event happen.

Good Luck.
 :asian:


----------



## Datu Tim Hartman

Dan my suggestions:

1.	Have only one instructor teaching at a time. This way no one has to choose who to see or not.

2.	Schedule breaks for meals. This way no one was to miss any session.

3.	You should probably have 10 minute breaks throughout the day so people can take notes, water breaks and buy your book. _*(see how even I can slip in a shameless plug for Dans book)*_

4.	Try to have the event near a hotel to cut down traveling for the out of towners.

These are a couple thoughts, I have more but Im off to the school. This working for a living can pain.

Respectfully yours, :asian:


----------



## Emptyglass

Datu Puti said:
			
		

> Rich,
> I will be in your area in August and I was already planning on trying to meet with you for coffee or something.



I really wanted to go to your seminar at AcroCombat. Unfortunately I'm going to be working doing online coverage for a company event in Boston at Waters Edge at Bayside on August 6-8th. I tried to rearrange the schedule or get one of my employees to go but the tickets are already bought. Some other time would be fine as I'm more than willing to meet with you face to face for a chat.

Rich Curren


----------



## Datu Tim Hartman

Emptyglass said:
			
		

> I really wanted to go to your seminar at AcroCombat. Unfortunately I'm going to be working doing online coverage for a company event in Boston at Waters Edge at Bayside on August 6-8th. I tried to rearrange the schedule or get one of my employees to go but the tickets are already bought. Some other time would be fine as I'm more than willing to meet with you face to face for a chat.
> 
> Rich Curren



Actually I was refering to GM Bobby's seminar on the 22nd.

 :asian:


----------



## Emptyglass

Datu Puti said:
			
		

> Actually I was refering to GM Bobby's seminar on the 22nd.
> 
> :asian:




Well I'll definitely be there for that one. Sounds fine to me and that reminds me of something as well...

Rich Curren


----------



## Guro Harold

Datu Puti said:
			
		

> We can go back and forth on this and both sides wont agree. I was explaining my comments based on experiences in the past that some of the viewers might not have read. Im not going to turn this into something its not.
> 
> Paul,
> Rich P. and Paul J should be coming to Buffalo in August. I suggest that you and Tom should stop by the school at that time so we can *all* discuss this face to face and clear up some of this history.
> 
> Rich,
> I will be in your area in August and I was already planning on trying to meet with you for coffee or something.
> 
> I feel that we have a better chance of putting things to rest after some personal face to face communication. I have said since the beginning on MT that the written format leaves out a lot of facial expressions as well as the tone of one voice.
> 
> Dan,
> As I said the other day, I do support your efforts on this project. This thread has a lot of information, both good and bad. It can be a very good tool to help your event happen.
> 
> Good Luck.
> :asian:



Tim,

Outstanding jesture!

Palusut :asian:


----------



## Datu Tim Hartman

Palusut said:
			
		

> Tim,
> 
> Outstanding jesture!
> 
> Palusut :asian:




:asian:


----------



## MJS

Datu Puti said:
			
		

> Paul,
> 
> 
> BTW, when did you become a mod?
> 
> Respectfully your, :asian:



He isn't a mod.  He's simply making an attempt to keep the thread on track, so it wont get closed.  Take a look at some of the other threads on MT and you'll see how they have a remarkable way to get off the topic!!!

Mike


----------



## Datu Tim Hartman

MJS said:
			
		

> He isn't a mod.  He's simply making an attempt to keep the thread on track, so it wont get closed.  Take a look at some of the other threads on MT and you'll see how they have a remarkable way to get off the topic!!!
> 
> Mike



Mike,

I was joking. I helped Bob build MT, I know exactly how threads are lead astray. 

Respecfully yours, :asian:


----------



## MJS

Datu Puti said:
			
		

> Mike,
> 
> I was joking. I helped Bob build MT, I know exactly how threads are lead astray.
> 
> Respecfully yours, :asian:



Tim,

Sorry for the misunderstanding.   :asian: 

Mike


----------



## Datu Tim Hartman

MJS said:
			
		

> Tim,
> 
> Sorry for the misunderstanding.   :asian:
> 
> Mike




No problem Mike. :asian:


----------



## loki09789

Palusut said:
			
		

> Tim,





			
				Palusut said:
			
		

> Outstanding jesture!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palusut


\



Tim,

I hope it is more than just gesture considering Jerome's attempted communication has been to set up discussion IN PERSON if possible (what ever needs to be said) to reach a true resolution and has been ignored. He even offered to pay for the coffee and muffins. If you consider ignoring someone instead of talking/resolving a form of "peaceful coexistence" it really isn't. It is sort of like ignoring a cancer; it will just get worse without treatment.


Hell, Shishir himself offered to mediate when he was in Buffalo and you refused the senior Datu's well intended gesture. 



For me, I have stopped by, Tim, and I thought it was productive, yet these sniping shots don't really show that anymore to me. I remember our last conversation and how it contrasts with some comments you have made here. Jerome has communicated directly with Janulis according to Paul J himself. I have called Paul J long distance and communicated through email with Paul J - no problems there. I even reviewed his website and made constructive suggestions. I have listened to you when we talked face to face, I have talked to Jerome and read the email copies/communications that Jerome used to try and reach out to you and others - lengthy but worth reading for the sake of true resolution. It is disappointing to see that our 'face to face' didn't really help that much. I have even seen the actual paper work after the symposium, while I helped with the aftermath (since I didn't help out at all with the set up) so I would say that I know of what I speak concerning the payday issue. Open discussion of private/financial business is considered bad form in business as far as I am concerned.



After the results of the last 'face to face' with you: 



1. Having it spun into me 'distancing myself' from Jerome.



2. Reading posts from people who weren't there using information in their posts that only could have come from that conversation.



3. And the latest string of personal insults from you.



I would say making direct phone contact first (come on your already paying for the local service) and from that we can figure out if a drive out to your school for further discussion (or even just a good laugh about all of this and a beer J) is warranted - remember the concept of "economy of motion. Administrators direct others to do things, leaders take the initiative so give me a call if you think that it is time for direct communication.



If you read through my comments, it really comes down requesting that you honor your statement about not stirring up old business and 'coexisting peacefully.' Speaking proactively and about 'what will work for the next one' instead of what was wrong with the last one would go a long way to making those honor statements more an just lip service.


----------



## Flatlander

I think that what did not work at the last one must be the contextual reference for what will work at the next one.


Listen, esteemed members of the Martial Talk Modern Arnis community.  I started this thread after having read through all the old stuff regarding the first symposium in an effort to glean an insight into everyone's feelings on the possibility of another symposium.  This thread is going exactly where I didn't want it to.  My goal was certainly *not *to provide everyone with a reason to bite eachother's ears.

Surprisingly, earlier on in the thread, SM Dan Anderson selflessly proclaimed that he had been kicking the idea around.  Since then, the thread has basically degenerated into off topic garbage that would be better solved offboard, if it can be solved at all.  At any rate, that wasn't the point of the thread.

I respectfully request that this thread be closed, in hopes that we can put a lid on this can of worms that has inadvertently been opened.   Let's allow SM Dan to have some time to consider, plan, communicate with whoever he needs, and basically execute his idea.

I'm certain that if SM Dan wants any other public input, he'll ask.  Until then, this thread has gone way off topic, so if there's other crap that *needs* to be worked out *publicly*, start a new thread on it.

Thanks all for your input.

Dan Bowman


----------



## Guro Harold

flatlander said:
			
		

> I think that what did not work at the last one must be the contextual reference for what will work at the next one.
> 
> 
> Listen, esteemed members of the Martial Talk Modern Arnis community.  I started this thread after having read through all the old stuff regarding the first symposium in an effort to glean an insight into everyone's feelings on the possibility of another symposium.  This thread is going exactly where I didn't want it to.  My goal was certainly *not *to provide everyone with a reason to bite eachother's ears.
> 
> Surprisingly, earlier on in the thread, SM Dan Anderson selflessly proclaimed that he had been kicking the idea around.  Since then, the thread has basically degenerated into off topic garbage that would be better solved offboard, if it can be solved at all.  At any rate, that wasn't the point of the thread.
> 
> I respectfully request that this thread be closed, in hopes that we can put a lid on this can of worms that has inadvertently been opened.   Let's allow SM Dan to have some time to consider, plan, communicate with whoever he needs, and basically execute his idea.
> 
> I'm certain that if SM Dan wants any other public input, he'll ask.  Until then, this thread has gone way off topic, so if there's other crap that *needs* to be worked out *publicly*, start a new thread on it.
> 
> Thanks all for your input.
> 
> Dan Bowman



Hi Dan,

I think that your concern is commendable!

I would like to suggest for now that we wait a little while longer and keep the thread open.  I think that this thread is turning the corner.

Rest assured that the staff is actively monitoring the threads and concerned members like yourself are making every effort to keep MT friendly.

Thanks,

Harold


----------



## Flatlander

Okeydoke Harold.  Let's hope.  


Dan.


----------



## Cruentus

Only responding here because my name was mentioned...

I am always open to sitting down with people, as I think all parties involved know, and I do plan on being in Buffalo with Rich P. in August.

Yours,

Paul Janulis


----------



## loki09789

Tulisan said:
			
		

> Only responding here because my name was mentioned...
> 
> I am always open to sitting down with people, as I think all parties involved know, and I do plan on being in Buffalo with Rich P. in August.
> 
> Yours,
> 
> Paul Janulis


Yup, I remember your invite before your last visit. I can't remember whether it was date confusion or prior commitments but we didn't actually connect. We have also been pretty good about resolving things via email and phone conversations as well.

Even when there is disagreement, at least there can be respect as long as people keep their words and actions consistent.


----------



## Datu Tim Hartman

I started a new thread in hopes of keeping this one on track. Here is the link.
http://martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?p=251729#post251729


----------



## Dan Anderson

Okay folks, back on track.

Here is what I want to occur for a second symposium:

1.  I looked up the word "symposium" and the definitions do not fit the event so I will not use it.  It has nothing to do with feelings connected to the event.  This event will not be a formal meeting or discussion of subject, published collection of opinions or a drinking party in ancient Greece hence the name symposium will be scrapped as inappropriate.

2.  Expenses should be paid for instructors.  If possible, instructors should be paid something over the top if that as well.  I have a student of mine in North Carolina (who is a successful businessman and a college faculty member) working on sponsorship through a bank.  I just talked to him this morning and he is excited about putting it on at the college.

3.  No vendor charges.  Each instructor will be able to sell his wares for no event fee.

4.  Lunch breaks!!!  As my student is a faculty member at his college, he might be able to secure dorm and cafeteria facilities for the event.

5.  The instructional staff are to be *first generation senior students of Remy Presas*.  I have no gripe about the instruction at the first symposium.  It was all first rate.  For this to be a true Modern Arnis event, I want only the senior instructors under Remy Presas.  My list is:
SM Roland Dantes
SM Dan Anderson
Datu Tim Hartman
Datu Dieter Knuettel
Datu Kelly Worden
Datu Shishir Inocalla
MoTT Randi Schea (or any of the other MoTTs in his stead)
MoTT Jeff Delaney
Master At Arms Bram Frank

6.  The set up will either be each master will have a particular time slot to teach in or circuit training (work the instructors like mules).  I am personally in favor of the circuit training.  *I* missed out on a number of instructors with the pick and choose method.

7.  NO POLITICAL STUFF!  Here I will be the pot calling the kettle black.  I have had squabbles with others regarding this and that but for this to be a true Modern Arnis Masters Expo (or some other title) it has to be strictly non-political.  All the above named *first generation senior students of Remy Presas* must be invited.  It will be up to them to either accept or decline.

I have no date yet except it is for 2005.  I will be getting touch, first by email and then by phone, the above named masters so that a date which does not conflict with previously scheduled plans can be chosen.

It will hinge on point #2 but it is looking more and more real all the time.  Thank you for all the suggestions and positive input so far.  Keep it up.  All for now.

Yours,
Dan Anderson


----------



## loki09789

Dan Anderson said:
			
		

> Okay folks, back on track.
> 
> Here is what I want to occur for a second symposium:
> 
> 1. I looked up the word "symposium" and the definitions do not fit the event so I will not use it. It has nothing to do with feelings connected to the event. This event will not be a formal meeting or discussion of subject, published collection of opinions or a drinking party in ancient Greece hence the name symposium will be scrapped as inappropriate.
> 
> 
> Yours,
> Dan Anderson


That idea of Symposium is probably the root of the disconnect/criticisms about last years event.  It was intended as a 'discussion of the subject' through demonstration/presentation of the various directions each presenter took MA - whether it was "root" or "variant" of MA concepts/artistic directions.  I think that people who didn't understand that symposium idea as the event theme WERE expecting something more in the vein of what you are proposing.

I love the responsible consideration of what to call it to reduce future confusion.  If all these folks could be put in one place AND the politics is nullified, it will be a thing to behold.  

So, I am guessing that it is tenatively set for N. Carolina: what college/town?


----------



## Dan Anderson

loki09789 said:
			
		

> So, I am guessing that it is tenatively set for N. Carolina: what college/town?


Yes.  I'm not there yet so I'm not saying.  So many pieces need to fall into place yet it is still in the "talk about" phase.  I don't want to jinx anything yet.
Once I have hard facts, then I will let you all know AS IT HAPPENS.  To me, what will make this work is OPEN communication so as I KNOW things, I will let you know right away.  

Yours,
Dan Anderson


----------



## Guro Harold

Dan Anderson said:
			
		

> Yes.  I'm not there yet so I'm not saying.  So many pieces need to fall into place yet it is still in the "talk about" phase.  I don't want to jinx anything yet.
> Once I have hard facts, then I will let you all know AS IT HAPPENS.  To me, what will make this work is OPEN communication so as I KNOW things, I will let you know right away.
> 
> Yours,
> Dan Anderson


Cool right in the old backyard!!!


----------



## Guro Harold

Give me a heads up if it is in Greensboro, NC.  I might be able to help out some.


----------



## Rich Parsons

Palusut said:
			
		

> Cool right in the old backyard!!!



Camping at your place?


----------



## Rich Parsons

First, this is not about the past, my comments and personal opinions and feedback are about this possible event.




			
				Dan Anderson said:
			
		

> Okay folks, back on track.
> 
> Here is what I want to occur for a second symposium:
> 
> 1.  I looked up the word "symposium" and the definitions do not fit the event so I will not use it.  It has nothing to do with feelings connected to the event.  This event will not be a formal meeting or discussion of subject, published collection of opinions or a drinking party in ancient Greece hence the name symposium will be scrapped as inappropriate.



I agree with the choice not to use the name Symposium. I also agree that
the host or coordinator can call it what ever they wish too.  Maybe a contest, for the best name selection?




			
				Dan Anderson said:
			
		

> 2.  Expenses should be paid for instructors.  If possible, instructors should be paid something over the top if that as well.  I have a student of mine in North Carolina (who is a successful businessman and a college faculty member) working on sponsorship through a bank.  I just talked to him this morning and he is excited about putting it on at the college.



It is good to always plan to cover expenses. It is also good to have good organization, and with a person who knows the facilities. Looking good so far to me.



			
				Dan Anderson said:
			
		

> 3.  No vendor charges.  Each instructor will be able to sell his wares for no event fee.



This is nice and generous of the host and organizers. 



			
				Dan Anderson said:
			
		

> 4.  Lunch breaks!!!  As my student is a faculty member at his college, he might be able to secure dorm and cafeteria facilities for the event.



Thank You. I enjoy eating in the middle of the day. It usually is my largest meal of the day.



			
				Dan Anderson said:
			
		

> 5.  The instructional staff are to be *first generation senior students of Remy Presas*.  I have no gripe about the instruction at the first symposium.  It was all first rate.  For this to be a true Modern Arnis event, I want only the senior instructors under Remy Presas.  My list is:
> SM Roland Dantes
> SM Dan Anderson
> Datu Tim Hartman
> Datu Dieter Knuettel
> Datu Kelly Worden
> Datu Shishir Inocalla
> MoTT Randi Schea (or any of the other MoTTs in his stead)
> MoTT Jeff Delaney
> Master At Arms Bram Frank



Nice list. I would like to see everyone of them make it.



			
				Dan Anderson said:
			
		

> 6.  The set up will either be each master will have a particular time slot to teach in or circuit training (work the instructors like mules).  I am personally in favor of the circuit training.  *I* missed out on a number of instructors with the pick and choose method.



I would not mind the circuit, for this would allow all the participants a chance to see everyone.



			
				Dan Anderson said:
			
		

> 7.  NO POLITICAL STUFF!  Here I will be the pot calling the kettle black.  I have had squabbles with others regarding this and that but for this to be a true Modern Arnis Masters Expo (or some other title) it has to be strictly non-political.  All the above named *first generation senior students of Remy Presas* must be invited.  It will be up to them to either accept or decline.



I agree with this approcah as well. 



			
				Dan Anderson said:
			
		

> I have no date yet except it is for 2005.  I will be getting touch, first by email and then by phone, the above named masters so that a date which does not conflict with previously scheduled plans can be chosen.
> 
> It will hinge on point #2 but it is looking more and more real all the time.  Thank you for all the suggestions and positive input so far.  Keep it up.  All for now.
> 
> Yours,
> Dan Anderson




Good Luck, I wish this and other Modern Arnis events success.

:asian:


----------



## Bob Hubbard

Dan,
  First of all, I wish you the best of luck with your event.

At the risk of annoying some, one must examine the past to improve the future.  That is what I'm going to do here, focusing pretty much on the promotional area as the tallent/at-event setup/personalities and political are areas I either am not qualified to look at, or simply care less to delve into.

An event of this magnitude should be properly promoted.  The prior event failed in many ways to attract the attention it deserved.

I suggest the following:

1- A website.  I don't say this because I host/design.  I'll gladly do either or both, but if not, no worries.  I say this as having a website gives you a central location to serve information to the public.  A central repository if you will.  It allows you to better coordinate your efforts, and forms a 'home base' to launch your marketing attack from.

2- 1 thread per forum.  The previous event had it's information scattered across many threads, making it hard to stay upto date, or even find information when needed.  1 thread, which you can keep updated with news, changes and progress.

3- Start early.  3 months before the event is not the time to put up the website and make the announcement.  Allow 1 year to really get the word out.

4- Contact the major martial arts magazines, forums, mailing lists and organizations, and do it early.

5- See my articles for some extra info. http://rustaz.com/writings/nonfiction/index.htm
  I recommend "You built it, but will they come?" and "How to Organize a Convention in 10 easy steps".  THe later is geared towards sci-fi cons, but may be of some help.

6- Reread the past constructive critisism of the prior event, and learn from it.


I still believe that if the seniors can put ego, position, politics and past hurts aside, a truely excellent and exciting event can occur.  I wish you success on pulling it off.





Just remember....the women find bald men attractive...just look at Patrick Stuart and Telly Savalas.


----------



## Dan Anderson

Kaith,

No annoyance on any of these.  I asked for suggestions.  I especially like the website one.  I don't know about taking a full year to publicize th event but yes, get the word out a good time in advance.  Aside from e-advertising, hard copy advertising (mail outs) is going to be essential as well.  I know quite well the mistakes of the last one and I am going to avoid those like the plague.  Right now, word-of-mouth and enthusiasm are the front line.

Thanks again,
Dan Anderson


----------



## Guro Harold

Rich Parsons said:
			
		

> Camping at your place?


Yeah there are some woods right over my fence!!!  I'll check up on you all when I get up from my bed. :rofl:


----------



## Dan Anderson

Hey folks,
If this goes down as we are planning you won't have to camp out anywhere.  We'll use the college.
Dan


----------



## loki09789

Dan Anderson said:
			
		

> Hey folks,
> If this goes down as we are planning you won't have to camp out anywhere. We'll use the college.
> Dan


This sounds like 'going old school' back to the Michigan summer camp days from what I have heard from Rich C and Jerome/Tim K....  I hope it works out.  The convenience and logistical simplicity of a campus would be great.  Another thing to consider would be a summer camp or boy scout camp if it came down to it.  There would be a kitchen (though food service would have to be arranged), sleeping quarters/shower and toiletry facilities, open and covered areas for workouts and a great view to boot.  Just an idea.

I think there is already a "martial arts summer camp" that usually caters to kids that uses this approach. TKD org.s have been known to do this as well from the little time I spent in TKD with USTA and ATA.


----------



## Dan Anderson

Hi All,

I was speaking to two different people and two good questions came up (it matters not who asked and I will say that they came up as questions, not flames):

1.  Why is Bram Frank on the list?  He isn't a datu, senior master, MoTT, high ranker, or an acknowledged senior in the art?
2.  Why isn't Datu David Hoffman on the list?

1.  I acknowledge the lack of higher ranking and senior titles/status.  Bram has researched an area most Modern Arnisadors are lacking in - Modern Arnis use of the blade.  He lives in Florida where Prof. Presas also had property and spent a lot of time in.  Bram and RP spent a lot of time together.  When you see the bolo DVDs or his modular series DVDs, you see that what he is doing is Modern Arnis blade, not Sayoc or Pekiti.  That he has had other influences as well, okay.  I looked over a video of his last night and saw a number of drills I haven't seen before.  Could they have been (insert name of any other well known or not so well known blade instructor here) drills?  I suppose.  I don't really know so I can't really say.  It also doesn't matter to me.  Look at what he is doing in present time.  This is Modern Arnis blade.  

2.  I didn't put David Hoffman on the list because apparantly he has dropped off the face of the earth.  The last couple of emails I sent him (via private messages from different forums) have not been answered.  He is somewhat of an enigma to me.  It appears he submerges, surfaces, and submerges now and again.  If he pops up and merely says, "Hi." I will extend an invitation to him as well.  There is no need for him to ask to participate as RP gave him datu title and 5th degree as well.

I will not exclude Bram for the above reasons and I do not exclude David Hoffman either.

If you look at all the different FMA instructors Dieter Knuettel brought together for the 2004 FMA Festival, there's got to be someone in that line up who didn't like someone else.  Or several for that matter.  However, the FMA Festival got pulled off and it was a success.  I want the same for us.

Yours,
Dan Anderson

PS- Gads!  I've posted over a thousand times!?!


----------



## Rich Parsons

Dan Anderson said:
			
		

> Hi All,
> 
> I was speaking to two different people and two good questions came up (it matters not who asked and I will say that they came up as questions, not flames):
> 
> 1.  Why is Bram Frank on the list?  He isn't a datu, senior master, MoTT, high ranker, or an acknowledged senior in the art?
> 2.  Why isn't Datu David Hoffman on the list?
> 
> 1.  I acknowledge the lack of higher ranking and senior titles/status.  Bram has researched an area most Modern Arnisadors are lacking in - Modern Arnis use of the blade.  He lives in Florida where Prof. Presas also had property and spent a lot of time in.  Bram and RP spent a lot of time together.  When you see the bolo DVDs or his modular series DVDs, you see that what he is doing is Modern Arnis blade, not Sayoc or Pekiti.  That he has had other influences as well, okay.  I looked over a video of his last night and saw a number of drills I haven't seen before.  Could they have been (insert name of any other well known or not so well known blade instructor here) drills?  I suppose.  I don't really know so I can't really say.  It also doesn't matter to me.  Look at what he is doing in present time.  This is Modern Arnis blade.
> 
> 2.  I didn't put David Hoffman on the list because apparantly he has dropped off the face of the earth.  The last couple of emails I sent him (via private messages from different forums) have not been answered.  He is somewhat of an enigma to me.  It appears he submerges, surfaces, and submerges now and again.  If he pops up and merely says, "Hi." I will extend an invitation to him as well.  There is no need for him to ask to participate as RP gave him datu title and 5th degree as well.
> 
> I will not exclude Bram for the above reasons and I do not exclude David Hoffman either.
> 
> If you look at all the different FMA instructors Dieter Knuettel brought together for the 2004 FMA Festival, there's got to be someone in that line up who didn't like someone else.  Or several for that matter.  However, the FMA Festival got pulled off and it was a success.  I want the same for us.
> 
> Yours,
> Dan Anderson
> 
> PS- Gads!  I've posted over a thousand times!?!



Dan,

I will say the same thing to you as I said to others.  The host has the right to ask whomever they wish to ask. Host priviledge.

Now I agree it would be nice to be open like you are, and offering it where and when you can.

:asian:


----------



## Guro Harold

Rich Parsons said:
			
		

> Dan,
> 
> I will say the same thing to you as I said to others.  The host has the right to ask whomever they wish to ask. Host priviledge.
> 
> Now I agree it would be nice to be open like you are, and offering it where and when you can.
> 
> :asian:


I agree with Rich.  He stated what I was thinking.


----------



## Datu Tim Hartman

Dan Anderson said:
			
		

> My list is:
> SM Roland Dantes
> SM Dan Anderson
> Datu Tim Hartman
> Datu Dieter Knuettel
> Datu Kelly Worden
> Datu Shishir Inocalla
> MoTT Randi Schea (or any of the other MoTTs in his stead)
> MoTT Jeff Delaney
> Master At Arms Bram Frank


Dan-

I think that you have a great list! Doesn't look like you left anyone out. You might want to consider not adding substitutions if some of the people from your list choose not to participate.  I think in some cases, less is more. It might just be better to have less people on the card for logistical reasons.


----------



## Mark Lynn

Dan 

I like your list, and if you can get half of them I'll be there. I got some questions and comments for you in planning the event. 

1)Hey what about Rocky?  He spent a lot of time with the Professor, and he was taught somethings that others weren't taught.

2) Having it at a university, or some kind of a camp area, boy scout/Baptist or what sounds good.  The Texas Summer camps that Al Garza put on 99-01 were all held at Rice University.  It was great to have lodging and meals at the same place.  

3) Since you are planning on having so many instructors how about having it over 2-4 days?  This way the teaching sessions would be long enough to really get something from these guys?

Mark


----------



## Mark Lynn

Datu Puti said:
			
		

> Dan-
> 
> I think that you have a great list! Doesn't look like you left anyone out. You might want to consider not adding substitutions if some of the people from your list choose not to participate.  I think in some cases, less is more. It might just be better to have less people on the card for logistical reasons.



Dan 

I agree here if you can't get these instructors don't substitue allow them to teach longer.  Because of the long list I suggest having it spread over more days (see my previous post), although I would also like to see Rocky included in the list.

Mark


----------



## Dan Anderson

The Boar Man said:
			
		

> Dan
> 
> I like your list, and if you can get half of them I'll be there. I got some questions and comments for you in planning the event.
> 
> 1)Hey what about Rocky?  He spent a lot of time with the Professor, and he was taught somethings that others weren't taught.
> 
> 2) Having it at a university, or some kind of a camp area, boy scout/Baptist or what sounds good.  The Texas Summer camps that Al Garza put on 99-01 were all held at Rice University.  It was great to have lodging and meals at the same place.
> 
> 3) Since you are planning on having so many instructors how about having it over 2-4 days?  This way the teaching sessions would be long enough to really get something from these guys?
> 
> Mark



Hi Mark,

1.  Rocky would be wonderful.  He is, however, one step removerd from mainstream Modern Arnis and this is the thrust of this camp.
2/3.  That's the plan.



> Dan-
> 
> I think that you have a great list! Doesn't look like you left anyone out. You might want to consider not adding substitutions if some of the people from your list choose not to participate. I think in some cases, less is more. It might just be better to have less people on the card for logistical reasons.


Tim,

I'm inclined to agree at this point.  A decent enought time with each instructor is my goal.  We're still int he planning stages so we're flexible yet.



> I will say the same thing to you as I said to others. The host has the right to ask whomever they wish to ask. Host priviledge.
> 
> Now I agree it would be nice to be open like you are, and offering it where and when you can.


Rich,

You are absolutely correct.  The host does have the priviledge.  I do, however, want this to be more than the "Dan & Super Friends" show.  This includes masters I barely know or haven't gotten along with in the past but all have one major thing in common - senior students of Remy Presas.  THAT is the major criteria, not if they are part of my fan club or even better, satisfied book buyers (humor, folks, humor).


Right now the goal is to have it *mid-August 2005*.  It will take a couple of weeks to shore up the instructor line up and then present it to the bank for sponsorship money.  A very good plus point is that my student, the businessman, is hot as a pistol on it so we're rolling right along.  Also, the proposed site is Brevard, NC.  There is a college/university (I forget which) there and it is close to an airport.  All for now.

Yours,
Dan Anderson


----------



## Dan Anderson

The Boar Man said:
			
		

> Dan
> 
> I like your list, and if you can get half of them I'll be there. I got some questions and comments for you in planning the event.
> 
> 1)Hey what about Rocky?  He spent a lot of time with the Professor, and he was taught somethings that others weren't taught.
> 
> 2) Having it at a university, or some kind of a camp area, boy scout/Baptist or what sounds good.  The Texas Summer camps that Al Garza put on 99-01 were all held at Rice University.  It was great to have lodging and meals at the same place.
> 
> 3) Since you are planning on having so many instructors how about having it over 2-4 days?  This way the teaching sessions would be long enough to really get something from these guys?
> 
> Mark



Hi Mark,

1.  Rocky would be wonderful.  He is, however, one step removed from mainstream Modern Arnis and this is the thrust of this camp.
2/3.  That's the plan.



> Dan-
> 
> I think that you have a great list! Doesn't look like you left anyone out. You might want to consider not adding substitutions if some of the people from your list choose not to participate. I think in some cases, less is more. It might just be better to have less people on the card for logistical reasons.


Tim,

I'm inclined to agree at this point.  A decent enought time with each instructor is my goal.  We're still int he planning stages so we're flexible yet.



> I will say the same thing to you as I said to others. The host has the right to ask whomever they wish to ask. Host priviledge.
> 
> Now I agree it would be nice to be open like you are, and offering it where and when you can.


Rich,

You are absolutely correct.  The host does have the priviledge.  I do, however, want this to be more than the "Dan & Super Friends" show.  This includes masters I barely know or haven't gotten along with in the past but all have one major thing in common - senior students of Remy Presas.  THAT is the major criteria, not if they are part of my fan club or even better, satisfied book buyers (humor, folks, humor).  

If this goes right, it is bigger than any one of us or our organizations.  So far, I lkie what I hear and support is growing.

Right now the goal is to have it *mid-August 2005*.  It will take a couple of weeks to shore up the instructor line up and then present it to the bank for sponsorship money.  A very good plus point is that my student, the businessman, is hot as a pistol on it so we're rolling right along.  Also, the proposed site is Brevard, NC.  There is a college/university (I forget which) there and it is close to an airport.  All for now.

Yours,
Dan Anderson


----------



## Guro Harold

Dan,

Was Rick Ward considered?  He also lives in NC about 3 hours away from the proposed site.

Thanks,

Harold


----------



## Dan Anderson

No.  Just the leaders and datus of the various organizations:
IMAF
IMAF, INc.
WMAA
WMAC
CSSD SC
DAV
Arnis Philippines
Me.

Yours,
Dan Anderson


----------



## Dan Anderson

Hi all.  I have emailed out the formal invitations to the above named instructors.

Datu Kelly Worden has politely declined to participate as neither Dr. Wilfredo Matias and Dr. Remy Presas, Jr. are not on the bill.  I thanked him privately for his speedy and forthright answer and do so now publicly.  I personally hope that he will reconsider when we have more of the details firmly in place.

He brought an important point which I wish to address here and now: I do not want anyone to think I am trying to re-write Modern Arnis history by saying Bram Frank is a highly ranked senior master of Modern Arnis by his inclusion in th teaching line up.  As I stated in a previous post, 





> _I acknowledge the lack of higher ranking and senior titles/status. Bram has researched an area most Modern Arnisadors are lacking in - Modern Arnis use of the blade. He lives in Florida where Prof. Presas also had property and spent a lot of time in. Bram and RP spent a lot of time together. When you see the bolo DVDs or his modular series DVDs, you see that what he is doing is Modern Arnis blade, not Sayoc or Pekiti. That he has had other influences as well, okay. I looked over a video of his last night and saw a number of drills I haven't seen before. Could they have been (insert name of any other well known or not so well known blade instructor here) drills? I suppose. I don't really know so I can't really say. It also doesn't matter to me. Look at what he is doing in present time. This is Modern Arnis blade. _


this is the reason I have included Bram.  I will keep you all posted as news happens.

Yours,
Dan Anderson

BTW - Kelly didn't say or state that I was attempting to re-write MA history.  He had a concern about it.


----------



## Guro Harold

Dan Anderson said:
			
		

> Dr. Remy Presas, Jr. are not on the bill.



Hi Dan,

Was an invitation extended?

Thanks,

Harold


----------



## Andrew Evans

Dan Anderson said:
			
		

> Bram has researched an area most Modern Arnisadors are lacking in - Modern Arnis use of the blade.  He lives in Florida where Prof. Presas also had property and spent a lot of time in.  Bram and RP spent a lot of time together.


Dan,

Dr. Wilfredo Matias also lives in Florida and is great with the blade. Heck, Dr. Matias knew Grandmaster Remy Presas longer than most of the folks on your list. 

Also (in the spirit of the Tour de France) Dr. Matias has kicked butt against cancer. When he was in Iowa and then Kansas, he worked out with us till 2-3 am in the morning and then got up early for the seminar. Heck, sometimes he had a beer in one hand and stick in the other. But ya know what, like a true arnisador, he never spilt a drop...

Dr. Matias is the Lance Armstrong of Modern Arnis!

Don't cheat folks who wouldn't ordinarily get a chance to see him. Dr. Matias is one bad mutha. 



			
				Dan Anderson said:
			
		

> Bram has researched an area most Modern Arnisadors are lacking in - Modern Arnis use of the blade.



I take offense in that statement! Have you seen Tim Hartman's blade skills? I also wouldn't face Mark Lynn in a dark alley with his bladework. Heck, I could name a few Modern Arnis folks in the Northwest who would fillet my ***. (Of course, Kelly Worden trained many of these Northwesterners.)

If the reason you are bring in Bram Frank is due to his fame as a knife instructor, why not also bring in W. Hock Hochheim? Hock has a lot more gigs than anyone on your list. Sorry Dan but it definitely looks like a highly selective list.

Regards,


----------



## Andrew Evans

Dan,

I think a lot of folks here, even non-MARPPIO ones, would agree that Dr. Remy Presas Jr. should be invited. Those that have seen him will agree that he definitely can bring it on. 

For everyone else, please visit http://www.modernarnis.com/fullvision_sparring.mpg

It will definitely *spark* your interest.


----------



## Dan Anderson

Harold,

If you look at my post on page 6, you'll see:


> 5. The instructional staff are to be _*first generation senior students*_ of Remy Presas. I have no gripe about the instruction at the first symposium. It was all first rate. For this to be a true Modern Arnis event, I want only the senior instructors under Remy Presas. My list is:
> SM Roland Dantes
> SM Dan Anderson
> Datu Tim Hartman
> Datu Dieter Knuettel
> Datu Kelly Worden
> Datu Shishir Inocalla
> MoTT Randi Schea (or any of the other MoTTs in his stead)
> MoTT Jeff Delaney
> Master At Arms Bram Frank


Was either Dr. Matias or Dr. Remy Presas, Jr. invited?  No.  They are wonderful instructors but I had to draw the line somewhere or else I would have to try and fund many, many more instructors than I could.

Yours,
Dan Anderson


----------



## Guro Harold

Dan Anderson said:
			
		

> Harold,
> 
> If you look at my post on page 6, you'll see:
> 
> Was either Dr. Matias or Dr. Remy Presas, Jr. invited?  No.  They are wonderful instructors but I had to draw the line somewhere or else I would have to try and fund many, many more instructors than I could.
> 
> Yours,
> Dan Anderson


Hi Dan,

I understand that there has to be a cutoff somewhere.

What is your definition of *first generation* senior students?

Thanks,

Harold


----------



## Dan Anderson

Remy Presas is the founder of Modern Arnis.
If you trained with him, you are first generation.  I suppose someone could get picky about having trained with another instructor and then trained with him, that wouldn't be a pure first generation student.
A senior student is one who has trained with him and has attained a very high rank, title, or status.

Folks, if this is headed where it could be (knowing the history of MartialTalk threads), let me was that no amount of nit-picking is going to get me to amend my list.  

Harold, I know you to be a straight shooter so I DO NOT think you are doing this. But I am not going to follow this kind of line and start justifying every choice I make if someone wants to go there.  BTW, I began with Remy Presas and have trained with no one else until his death (aside from one Dan Inosanto seminar).  I *am* a first generation student of Remy Presas.
Yours,
Dan Anderson


----------



## Guro Harold

Dan Anderson said:
			
		

> Remy Presas is the founder of Modern Arnis.
> If you trained with him, you are first generation.  I suppose someone could get picky about having trained with another instructor and then trained with him, that wouldn't be a pure first generation student.
> A senior student is one who has trained with him and has attained a very high rank, title, or status.
> 
> Folks, if this is headed where it could be (knowing the history of MartialTalk threads), let me was that no amount of nit-picking is going to get me to amend my list.
> 
> Harold, I know you to be a straight shooter so I DO NOT think you are doing this. But I am not going to follow this kind of line and start justifying every choice I make if someone wants to go there.  BTW, I began with Remy Presas and have trained with no one else until his death (aside from one Dan Inosanto seminar).  I *am* a first generation student of Remy Presas.
> Yours,
> Dan Anderson


Hi Dan,

I think that it was valuable to see what your definition of first generation is.  

If you would like, you can keep this thread as the logistic center and spin off another thread for fielding questions regarding the symposium and address questions in that thread and the MT staff can move these initial questions over if you would like.

As far as me being a straight shooter on this subject, I do believe that the first generation definition has a bigger scope than the invited and esteemed panelists.

Best regards,

Harold


----------



## David Hoffman

Dan Anderson said:
			
		

> Hi All,
> 
> 
> 2.  I didn't put David Hoffman on the list because apparantly he has dropped off the face of the earth.  The last couple of emails I sent him (via private messages from different forums) have not been answered.  He is somewhat of an enigma to me.  It appears he submerges, surfaces, and submerges now and again.  If he pops up and merely says, "Hi." I will extend an invitation to him as well.  There is no need for him to ask to participate as RP gave him datu title and 5th degree as well.
> 
> Hello Dan,
> 
> I am still on earth my friend! I have not, however, been following the forums. When my last machine crashed I was offline for a couple of months. Since then I am back online but have not had time to keep up with the forums. When I just logged in I did not see any private messages from you. Please feel free to contact me directly by email or telephone, not via the various forums. I'm sorry if you had the impression I was ignoring you.
> 
> David


----------



## Andrew Evans

This posting is not a stab at Dan Anderson. While I disagree technically and philosophically, I respect his efforts at organizing a big event. I merely want everyone to know my feelings. Just in case

To everyone,

My oldest son is only 10 years old but he has trained with me for a few years. I even remember how he watched class from a playpen or car seat as an infant/toddler while his mother and/or I taught class. While I am admitting that he is not my most skilled student at this time probably due to his young age, I want folks to invite him to any big event held in my honor after I depart this world if I ever become a famous martial artist (or anything else). Also if he can bring it on, please let him do so. This holds true no matter what extraordinary circumstances occur between now and then. Life is strange and anything can happen.

Please also extend the same courtesy to my other child who is now eight months old especially if he ever gets the opportunity to train with me. I have always told my students that family comes first. I hope I will continue to do so and that anyone reading this will remember my words for prosperity.

Regards,
Andrew Evans

p.s. My wife thinks this is morbid but I explained to her that I did not want the same thing to happen to my children that has happened to others.


----------



## Mark Lynn

Dan

Since Kelly has declined, I think it would be proper to invite Dr. Matias or Dr. Remy since this would show that you have the leaders from pretty much all of the organizations of Modern Arnis.  It's still early in the planning process for this get together and either one or both would be an added beneift for anyone attending.

I traveled to Topeka to see what Dr Remy Jr. and Dr. Matias and I enjoyed their instruction  They are good.  And they bring to the table Remy's instruction of the pre USA days like Roland Dantes does.

Respectfully
Mark Lynn

Andrew
Thanks for the compliment and I agree with you with respect to inviting either/or both Dr. Remy Jr. or Dr. Matias.  I don't think Dan needs to invite Hock though.  Hock's blade work and such is more inspried by GM Ernesto than Remy, Bram's blade work is truely inspired by GM Remy.


----------



## sungkit

As has been mentioned previously, Dan has put together a great list of seniors of modern arnis and as the host, it is his choice who is invited. 

In regards to Bram Frank, Professor Presas spoke very highly to Snr Master Roland Dantes about him in Canada. He also spoke highly about others and their accomplishments including datu kelly Worden, datu Dieter Knuttel, Dan Anderson, Randi Shea, and others. So I cannot see the problem if he is invited. 

Hopefully this thread does not stoop to politics .


----------



## Guro Harold

sungkit said:
			
		

> Hopefully this thread does not stoop to politics .


Hi Sungkit,

I don't think that this is the case just yet.  I think there are some legitimate questions and understandings that need to be cleared up in a general case.  whether or not it should be done in this particular thread is another matter.

Best regards,

Palusut


----------



## Dan Anderson

Hi Folks,

Some things need to be clarified.

1.  First of all, *this a camp*.  This is *not* any kind of establishment of a Modern Arnis pecking order or senority listing.  I am not declaring a who's who of Modern Arnis.  As far a any kind of clarifications and such, I will answer questions pertaining to the camp itself.  

2.  The list of instructors is MY list.  For the most part, they are instructors who have been studying in the US under Remy Presas for many, many years and are mainstream Modern Arnis players who now head their own organizations.

3.  This list is far more inclusive than any other has been in the US so far.

4.  The fact that this or that instructor is not on the list is no indication that he/she can't teach, isn't skilled, etc.  I am working on sponsorship and I am putting only so many names on the list.  I have received requests to teach by several instructors, each who have quality students, and have placed myself in a position anywhere from hurting someone's feelings to having delivered oblique insults by not having them on the list.

5.  I have no problem having certain instructors (who are not on the instructor list) as guests at the camp.  This will be done on an individual basis and will be done much closer to the date of the camp.  I am not saying who can come and who cannot.

6.  The declining of an instructor to participate does not automatically mean there is a vacant spot to fill.  All it means is that an instructor declined to participate.  

7.  So far, we are dealing in the hypothetical and the planning.  If the funding doesn't come off, I highly doubt I'll be able to pull it off.

8.  I welcome all comments and suggestions.  As I said in one of the first posts on this subject, if the camp suffers due to sameness of instruction (or any other fault), I'll take the heat and it will be my mistake.  If the camp is a success, it will be our success.

Yours,
Dan Anderson


----------



## Dan Anderson

Posted on the WMAC forum:


> Proposed Modern Arnis Master's Gathering
> Recently I was contacted by Dan Anderson about a proposed event to draw all the seniors of the art together for another symposium or gathering of the masters. I will place the proposed list below as chosen by Dan Anderson:
> 
> The instructional staff are to be first generation senior students of Remy Presas. I have no gripe about the instruction at the first symposium. It was all first rate. For this to be a true Modern Arnis event, I want only the senior instructors under Remy Presas. My list is:
> SM Roland Dantes
> SM Dan Anderson
> Datu Tim Hartman
> Datu Dieter Knuettel
> Datu Kelly Worden
> Datu Shishir Inocalla
> MoTT Randi Schea (or any of the other MoTTs in his stead)
> MoTT Jeff Delaney
> Master At Arms Bram Frank
> 
> Dan claims not to want any political problems during the organization of this event, yet two of the Professor's chosen Datu are not listed, there are 6 total. Dan may or may not agree, in the Western Hemisphere the Datu ranked practitioners were and are senior in status and longevity in the art of Modern Arnis, all 6 ! That would include Bong Sun Jornales, although not consistently active in the affairs of Modern Arnis (due to political choice) he none the less was active enough to sign and assist in the Promotions of both Tim Hartman and Dan Anderson himself. Additionally not listed is Datu David Hoffman, I believe David actually knew Professor Presas longer than any of us, and was trusted to deal with the personal trust of Professor's which is still in turmoil. So as we struggle for our positions in the public eye of martial arts Datu Hoffman is left to struggle with issues superseding anything we are personally facing as seniors of the art. His importance and status should not be ignored, he should be offered to participate in an event of this magnitude, he is a Datu of Modern Arnis...
> 
> Possibly he was not chosen by Dan because of Bram's personal issue's with Datu Hoffman? Or Dan's personal and business association to Bram Frank who is now considered a senior in the re-written history of Modern Arnis? Since when? Since the passing of Professor? It seems that Chuck Gauss and Datu David were on Bram's Modern Arnis Examination Board for his first test in 1994 , how is that a Senior?
> 
> I also believe if this is indeed a Senior Instructor event that Dr. Wilfredo Matias who was indeed the Senior ranked 7th degree practitioner of Modern Arnis in North America when Professor was alive should be included. In regards to Remy Jr. in the short 3 year time period since the inception of MARPPIO Remy Jr. has put forth a great deal of effort to spread the art of Modern Arnis and is succeeding without question. Like it or not he is the direct Presas Bloodline and is willing to teach and demonstrate his interpretation of the art next to anyone, further I attest to his skill level as being extremely exceptional for such an event. This fact alone opens the door for magazine editors to seek coverage to document a historical event involving the Son of Remy Presas and the actual seniors together in an instructional event.
> 
> In personal discussions with Randi Shea, he seems hesitant to be involved for a number of reasons, some which are mentioned here.
> 
> Well over 6 months ago I was contacted by Datu Tim Hartman to participate in a seminar with the Datus of Modern Arnis, I agreed, what happened to that event, is Dan Anderson now jumping ahead of the game in an effort to say it was first in the staging area? Let me say it since others won't, are there underline agenda's surrounding promoting this event?
> 
> Another concern worth mentioning is the proposed International participation of Datu Dieter and Senior master Tito Roland Dantes, anyone ever heard of baby steps? Could we actually put together an event and get the support of those within the United States prior to an attempt to capture the World? Big Dreams considering lingering issues still prevalent here in the United States...
> 
> Just some thought's
> Datu
> _________________
> Kelly S. Worden



Yours,
Dan Anderson


----------



## Dan Anderson

David Hoffman said:
			
		

> Hi All,
> 
> 
> 2.  I didn't put David Hoffman on the list because apparantly he has dropped off the face of the earth.  The last couple of emails I sent him (via private messages from different forums) have not been answered.  He is somewhat of an enigma to me.  It appears he submerges, surfaces, and submerges now and again.  If he pops up and merely says, "Hi." I will extend an invitation to him as well.  There is no need for him to ask to participate as RP gave him datu title and 5th degree as well.
> 
> Hello Dan,
> 
> I am still on earth my friend! I have not, however, been following the forums. When my last machine crashed I was offline for a couple of months. Since then I am back online but have not had time to keep up with the forums. When I just logged in I did not see any private messages from you. Please feel free to contact me directly by email or telephone, not via the various forums. I'm sorry if you had the impression I was ignoring you.
> 
> David



Hi David,

Here is a formal invitation to be a participant in the upcoming camp.  Since you have been reading the thread in the MT forum, you what I am trying to accomplish.  

As my student is working on the sponsorship proposal, I will need an answer and a bio from you as soon as possible.

Yours,
Dan


----------



## Brian Johns

Andrew Evans said:
			
		

> Dr. Matias is the Lance Armstrong of Modern Arnis!



Not to totally get off the thread, but I'm glad to hear someone like Dr. Matias beat cancer like Lance Armstrong.   What Lance did this past weekend in winning his 6th Tour de France ranks as one of the all time great athletic achievements. Bud Greenspan, the well known Olympics documentary filmmaker, has opined that Lance is one of the top three athletes of all time. His time trial performance up the L'Alpe d'Huez last Wednesday will be the stuff of legends for years to come. It was just an awe inspiring performance and one in which he just crushed the field. A truly inspiring athlete.

Take care,
Brian Johns
Columbus, Ohio


----------



## Dan Anderson

Update:

Jeff Delaney sent me a polite note declining to participate in the event.  I thanked him privately and now publicly for the speedy and forthright reply.

Yours,
Dan Anderson


----------



## Dan Anderson

Update:

I just heard from Datu Shishir Inocalla and he has accepted my invitation to participate at the camp.

Yours,
Dan Anderson


----------



## MJS

Dan Anderson said:
			
		

> Update:
> 
> Jeff Delaney sent me a polite note declining to participate in the event.  I thanked him privately and now publicly for the speedy and forthright reply.
> 
> Yours,
> Dan Anderson



For some reason, that doesnt surprise me.

Mike


----------



## Michael Billings

MJS said:
			
		

> For some reason, that doesnt surprise me.
> 
> Mike


 Be nice now.

 -Michael


----------



## MJS

Michael Billings said:
			
		

> Be nice now.
> 
> -Michael



Mr. Billings, please check your private messages.

Mike


----------



## Datu Tim Hartman

Michael Billings said:
			
		

> Be nice now.
> 
> -Michael




Did he say something wrong?

Respectfully, :asian:


----------



## MJS

Datu Puti said:
			
		

> Did he say something wrong?
> 
> Respectfully, :asian:



Mr. Billings is just trying to keep the peace on the forum, and I respect that.  I sent him a PM explaining my post.  No problems.

Mike


----------



## Dan Anderson

Addressing Kelly's concerns, a number of them have already been addressed in this thread.  However, point by point:


> *1.* Dan claims not to want any political problems during the organization of this event, yet two of the Professor's chosen Datu are not listed, there are 6 total.
> 
> *1A. *Dan may or may not agree, in the Western Hemisphere the Datu ranked practitioners were and are senior in status and longevity in the art of Modern Arnis, all 6 ! That would include Bong Sun Jornales, although not consistently active in the affairs of Modern Arnis (due to political choice) he none the less was active enough to sign and assist in the Promotions of both Tim Hartman and Dan Anderson himself.
> 
> *1B. *Additionally not listed is Datu David Hoffman, I believe David actually knew Professor Presas longer than any of us, and was trusted to deal with the personal trust of Professor's which is still in turmoil. So as we struggle for our positions in the public eye of martial arts Datu Hoffman is left to struggle with issues superseding anything we are personally facing as seniors of the art. His importance and status should not be ignored, he should be offered to participate in an event of this magnitude, he is a Datu of Modern Arnis...
> 
> *2.* Possibly he was not chosen by Dan because of Bram's personal issue's with Datu Hoffman?
> 
> *3.* Or Dan's personal and business association to Bram Frank who is now considered a senior in the re-written history of Modern Arnis? Since when? Since the passing of Professor? It seems that Chuck Gauss and Datu David were on Bram's Modern Arnis Examination Board for his first test in 1994 , how is that a Senior?
> 
> *4.* I also believe if this is indeed a Senior Instructor event that Dr. Wilfredo Matias who was indeed the Senior ranked 7th degree practitioner of Modern Arnis in North America when Professor was alive should be included.
> 
> *5.* In regards to Remy Jr. in the short 3 year time period since the inception of MARPPIO Remy Jr. has put forth a great deal of effort to spread the art of Modern Arnis and is succeeding without question. Like it or not he is the direct Presas Bloodline and is willing to teach and demonstrate his interpretation of the art next to anyone, further I attest to his skill level as being extremely exceptional for such an event. This fact alone opens the door for magazine editors to seek coverage to document a historical event involving the Son of Remy Presas and the actual seniors together in an instructional event.
> 
> *6. *In personal discussions with Randi Shea, he seems hesitant to be involved for a number of reasons, some which are mentioned here.
> 
> *7. *Well over 6 months ago I was contacted by Datu Tim Hartman to participate in a seminar with the Datus of Modern Arnis, I agreed, what happened to that event, is Dan Anderson now jumping ahead of the game in an effort to say it was first in the staging area? Let me say it since others won't, are there underline agenda's surrounding promoting this event?
> 
> *8. *Another concern worth mentioning is the proposed International participation of Datu Dieter and Senior master Tito Roland Dantes, anyone ever heard of baby steps? Could we actually put together an event and get the support of those within the United States prior to an attempt to capture the World? Big Dreams considering lingering issues still prevalent here in the United States...
> 
> Just some thought's
> Datu
> _________________
> Kelly S. Worden


1.    No question there.  This is documented.

1A.  As to the legacy, positioning, etc. of the Datus, I will not be drawn into this.  This has already been addressed on various other threads and since  Prof. Presas did not state anything to me regarding the title, I have nothing to offer one way or the other regarding it.  Yes, the group of Datus includes Ric Jornales.  If you look at the instructor line up, it consists of mainstream Modern Arnis instructors.  Datu Bong teaches Arnis Sikaran.  I have met and worked under Bong.  I have the higest respect for him.  He *is* my senior.  And yes, he did okay my petition.  My not listing him to the instructor line up is that his main art is Arnis Sikarn.

1B.  I have already addressed why I did not initially invite David Hoffman. 


> 2. I didn't put David Hoffman on the list because apparantly he has dropped off the face of the earth. The last couple of emails I sent him (via private messages from different forums) have not been answered. He is somewhat of an enigma to me. It appears he submerges, surfaces, and submerges now and again. If he pops up and merely says, "Hi." I will extend an invitation to him as well. There is no need for him to ask to participate as RP gave him datu title and 5th degree as well.



2. As I have stated many, many times before to many, many people, I base my relationships with other people on the basis of how *we* get along, not on the basis of how they get along with my friends.  Any issues Bram and David have is their business.  David and I have never had a cross word between us so there are no issues there.  He has been invited privately and publicly on this thread.  I hope he accepts.

3.  This has also been addressed in this thread.


> 1. Why is Bram Frank on the list? He isn't a datu, senior master, MoTT, high ranker, or an acknowledged senior in the art?
> 
> 1. I acknowledge the lack of higher ranking and senior titles/status. Bram has researched an area most Modern Arnisadors are lacking in - Modern Arnis use of the blade. He lives in Florida where Prof. Presas also had property and spent a lot of time in. Bram and RP spent a lot of time together. When you see the bolo DVDs or his modular series DVDs, you see that what he is doing is Modern Arnis blade, not Sayoc or Pekiti. That he has had other influences as well, okay. I looked over a video of his last night and saw a number of drills I haven't seen before. Could they have been (insert name of any other well known or not so well known blade instructor here) drills? I suppose. I don't really know so I can't really say. It also doesn't matter to me. Look at what he is doing in present time. This is Modern Arnis blade.


There is no attempt to re-write Modern Arnis history by me. 

4.  This has been addressed on this thread as well.


> Was either Dr. Matias or Dr. Remy Presas, Jr. invited?  No. They are wonderful instructors but I had to draw the line somewhere or else I would have to try and fund many, many more instructors than I could.



5. I think Dr. Presas has done a wonderful job of promoting the art in the short time MARPPIO has been in existance in the US.  One heck of a job!  My push for this event has nothing to do with whether it will sway or influence the magazine editors.

6.  I am currently in communication with Dr. Schea and he has let me know of his concerns as well.

7.  This is the first I have heard of a proposed Datus event.  That would be great to see one occur.  Am I jumping ahead in the staging of this?  I suppose so since Tim never told me about the proposed event.  Underlying agenda?  No.  

8.  Baby steps?  Big accomplishments do not occur without big dreams and the attempts to actualize them.  I would never have become a world champion without having a big dream.

Yours,
Dan Anderson


----------



## Dan Anderson

Hi All,

What began as an innocent query by Flatlander has turned into the usual sparring match.  

If you have any questions or concerns regarding the event, you may contact me personally at dannyleeanderson@hotmail.com .

I will answer all emails.  I will not partake of any more Q&A or slash & burn cycles on this thread.  I will update this thread as more data comes in.  

Yours,
Dan Anderson


----------



## Michael Billings

Datu Puti said:
			
		

> Did he say something wrong?
> 
> Respectfully, :asian:


 I don't know?  Did he?  It was not a Mod warning, just a comment given fairly lightly.  But I know the entire Mod/Admin team ends up reading all the Arnis threads when the slammin' starts.

 -Michael


----------



## Dan Anderson

Update:

I just spoke to Datu David Hoffman.  He has declined my invitation to participate in the upcoming event.  He has been tied up in the settlement of the Remy Presas estate and has gone to none of the events held in the recent past.  I respect his decision to be solely focussed on his task as executor of the will and wish him the best of luck in seeing it to a conclusion at the soonest possible time.

Yours,
Dan Anderson


----------



## David Hoffman

Hello Dan,

Thank you for your invitation. As we discussed in our private conversation, I am not presently accepting invitations to teach at seminars or camps. This is a very difficult choice for me, I have had to refuse several other generous invitations to events I would have very much wanted to participate in. You will please note that, consistent with this, I am also on leave from the International Modern Arnis Federation. This is my first inactive status after over 20 years of active participation in my role as instructor of Modern Arnis, and administratively with the Federation as Vice-President and Executive Director of International Affairs and the International Board. I am taking this inactive role because I have accepted our beloved teachers nomination that I serve as executor of his estate. This role obligates me to no longer speak for myself, but for he who can no longer speak for himself. I am concerned that, if I continue to actively participate in organizations, events and forums, or otherwise take steps to promote my own career as an instructor, I may give the appearance of bias or otherwise have conflicts of interest with the difficult role I have accepted. You will please note that I also no longer offer my opinions and participation in public forums, also consistent with my fiduciary obligations.


----------



## tshadowchaser

As time goes by and people say they will or will not be there and if the place is finalised plase keep us up on whats going on. This could be a event for all to remember pesonaly as well as for many to pay their respects to their late teacher by showing not only what he taught but what they have done with that knowledge and how they have progressd sence his death.
I would hope that all could put their diffrences and politics aside in the name of brotherhood and the memory of the Professor


----------



## Dan Anderson

I know I said I would not entertain any more Q&As on this thread but before I do, it's time to squash a rumor.

*There is no "do not invite" list.*  This in reference to _anyone_ who was not on the of instructors I posted.  This includes Jerome Barber, Tom Bolden, Rocky Paswik, Bong Jornales, (insert your favorite instructor left off the list here).  I know these instructors personally and they are all fine instructors and have produced quality students.  There are many instructors who have had kudos heaped upon them by various other instructors, organizations, and publications.  There are tons of instructors out there who are excellent practitioners and teachers.

That being said, I will reiterate that there is no "do not invite" list for this event.

Yours,
Dan Anderson


----------



## Emptyglass

Datu Puti said:
			
		

> Actually I was refering to GM Bobby's seminar on the 22nd.
> 
> :asian:



Hi there:

I don't think we've seen your pre-reg form come in yet for GM Taboada's seminar.

Just so you (and evveryone else) knows:

Seventy-five dollars before August 7th * Pre-registrationMust be postmarked by August 7th to receive the pre-registration rate

Eighty-five at the door or after August 7th

Hope to see you and hopefully a few of your students there to share the art of GM Bobby Taboada's Balintawak Arnis Escrima with us.

Sincerely,

Rich Curren


----------



## Datu Tim Hartman

Emptyglass said:
			
		

> Hi there:
> 
> I don't think we've seen your pre-reg form come in yet for GM Taboada's seminar.
> 
> Just so you (and evveryone else) knows:
> 
> Seventy-five dollars before August 7th * Pre-registrationMust be postmarked by August 7th to receive the pre-registration rate
> 
> Eighty-five at the door or after August 7th
> 
> Hope to see you and hopefully a few of your students there to share the art of GM Bobby Taboada's Balintawak Arnis Escrima with us.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Rich Curren




Not sure if I'll be coming in solo or with a group yet.


----------



## Gary5000

Why not a group? They'd give you some company.


----------



## Datu Tim Hartman

Gary5000 said:
			
		

> Why not a group? They'd give you some company.




Everyone is working on thier schedules as we speak.


----------



## Dan Anderson

*This is an open letter to Dr. Remy Presas:*

Dear Dr. Presas,

First of all I owe you an apology.  I put together an instructor line up for a proposed Modern Arnis Masters camp I am attempting to put together.  My initial pick for the instructor line up was composed of senior students of your father:

SM Roland Dantes - haven't heard back from him yet
SM Dan Anderson - promoter
Datu Tim Hartman - undecided
Datu Dieter Knuettel - accepted
Datu Kelly Worden - declined
Datu Shishir Inocalla - accepted
MoTT Randi Schea (or any of the other MoTTs in his stead) - undecided
MoTT Jeff Delaney - declined
Master At Arms Bram Frank - accepted

Next to each entry is whether they have accepted or declined or undecided as of this writing.

I was talking to Tim Hartman yesterday and he told me of a phone conversation he had with a WMAA board director, Sal Todaro, who brought up this point: I had invited a representative from every US Modern Arnis organization except MARPPIO.  I had only looked at students who had trained under your father for many, many years.  In the light in which this is brought up, I have made a grevious error and apologize for the slight.

I would like to invite you, or Demetrio, or MaryAnne to be one of the featured instructors at the proposed camp.  It is in the planning stages as I write this.  I have a student who is working on bank funding to handle instructor expenses.  The date is tentatively August 2005 and will be held in Brevard, North Carolina.

I am posting this as an open letter to both MartialTalk and the WMAC forum so that this is not  behind the scenes.  If you accept this invitation, I would love it.  If you decline, I understand.
Again, my apologies.

Yours,
Dan Anderson

PS - 
The MartialTalk forum thread which has the most information that I have posted is 
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15752&page=1&pp=15


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## Dan Anderson

Update:

SM Roland Dantes has said he will be participating in the upcoming event barring any filming schedule conflicts.  He is currently hip deep in a film project.  He emailed me today and is supporting the project.

Yours,
Dan Anderson


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## Dieter

Hi Dan,

great to have Roland coming to the event.

Congratulation


Dieter Knüttel
Datu of Modern Arnis


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## Flatlander

After reading the most recent events and postings over on Datu Worden's board, I have to say that I am really impressed by the coming together of the seniors of the art.  Regardless of what Datu Worden decides, I can see everyone's really coming together, and steps are being made.  I'm incredibly proud to be a Modern Arnis student today.


SM Dan, you have my utmost respect.  Keep up the good work.

Dan Bowman.


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## Dan Anderson

Dan,

Thanks.  We're working on it.  Did you ever think a simple post of yours would reach 10 pages?  You're a star!

Yours,
Dan Anderson


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## Flatlander

It's interesting how an innocent question has turned into such a "current event" in the community.  I'm rather flabbergasted.


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## Dan Anderson

You big troublemaker!  :ultracool 

Yours,
Dan Anderson


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## loki09789

Dan,

I think your  desire to keep things as open and public as possible is a noble gesture to avoid some of the 'in fighting' that can happen around such ventures.

As I said on the Worden WMAC forum, I think it should be remembered that this whole project is still very much in its infancy and at a 'brainstorming phase.'  I think before people start getting too quick to take offence at who is or is not on the list it should be remembered that there will be many changes and revisions before the final decisions are made about every aspect of this event.  Making suggestions with rationale is one thing, open accusations of slights and 'not invitiations' as disrespect should probably be reserved for the moment IMO.  I don't think that it is nearly as hostile here as in other places.

Personally, if the 'barking dog' types don't think you are doing it right, let them take up the task of organizing their own event that fits their vision instead of putting up obstacles in your way.  It's your ball Dan;  "Run Forest, RUN!!!"

Question for you though:

Do you have any 'revelations' or 'wow' observations that you never expected to have based on the reactions you have seen or had to deal with directly so far?

Believe me, I will understand if you want to reserve answering for a little while if this is still too overwhelming to really form a thought about at this point.


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## Dan Anderson

loki09789 said:
			
		

> Dan,
> 
> It's your ball Dan;  "Run Forest, RUN!!!"
> 
> Question for you though:
> 
> Do you have any 'revelations' or 'wow' observations that you never expected to have based on the reactions you have seen or had to deal with directly so far?



Yes.  I never thought of myself as Forrest Gump?   :lol: 

Seriously, yes.  The wounds of Prof.'s death still run deep.  I'm surprised at the intensity.  The "family" remains very polarized but we are still family.  I am carrying on with this project.

Yours,
Dan Anderson


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## loki09789

Dan Anderson said:
			
		

> Yes. I never thought of myself as Forrest Gump? :lol:
> 
> Seriously, yes. The wounds of Prof.'s death still run deep. I'm surprised at the intensity. The "family" remains very polarized but we are still family. I am carrying on with this project.
> 
> Yours,
> Dan Anderson


 
Dan, read the script please; you forgot:

"And that's all I have to say about thayat...."    

If you get lost just call out "LINE" and we will give you plenty of rope to hang yourself...I mean feed you a line....I mean.... oh well, just remember that I am right behind you as you make entry on this particular room....WAAYYYYY behind you


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## Tgace

What? Theres been problems? Im shocked!!


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## Dan Anderson

Update: We're looking at Fall break for the camp.  Sometime in October 2005.  We should have a date within the next two weeks.  Things are moving on it.

Yours,
Dan Anderson


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## Dan Anderson

I just got off the phone with Datu Tim Hartman and he has declined to participate in the event as an instructor.  Depending on the actual date of the camp and instruction line up, he said he _might_ attend as a participant.

Yours,
Dan Anderson


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## Dan Anderson

I spoke with Dr. Schea today and he has declined to participate in the event.  

There will be no "Symposium II."

I will work on hosting an event but in a different form and with a different focus.  The location, facilities and basic date will remain the same.

My thanks to Datu Dieter Knuettel and Bram Frank for their enthusiasm on this project.  They and Datu Shishir will be part of the next project.

I'm sorry we couldn't come together on this one.  Harold, it's time to lock down this thread.

Yours,
Dan Anderson


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## Flatlander

Sorry, SM Dan.


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## Guro Harold

Per Dan Anderson's request,

This thread is now locked.

Palusut
MT Moderator


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