# Juko Ryu Jujitsu?



## SFC JeffJ

Hey, has anyone heard of this?  Passed a school and actually stopped today coming home from work to see what it was.  Would it be worth cross training in that at all?

Thanks in advance for any info on this.


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## bushi jon

Where was it? Who was the instructor? and What do you hope to get out of it? If it is in South Bend I know the Guy and he is a great guy and very very good at what he does. You can pm or e-mail me


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## TimoS

Juko ryu jujitsu, if it is the style of Rod Sacharnoski (or however it is spelled), then I would keep away from it, but that's just me. If it is his style, you can read a lot about him on e-budo...


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## bshovan

In the 70's my dojo joined Sach's organization and he would come each Friday night to give mini seminars. It was a learning experience as we eventually parted our ways.


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## bshovan

just to clarify my last post, the learning experience was why we went are seperate ways.


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## jujutsu_indonesia

I always interested in knowing about the actual technical contents of Juko-ryu jujutsu. I only know Juko-ryu's Daiyoshin-ryu Aikido and it looks like Aikido to me. So, what does Juko-ryu Jujutsu looks like? Is it simply repackaged Judo, or does it really has something unique?


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## kamishinkan

I do not know of the contents of Juko Ryu. I only know of the history info.
I have had to learn this because of the ASSUMED relationship between Mr. Sachronowski and Mr. Church. As far as "Dai-Yoshin Ryu", It did not exist....Mr. Church trained with a Japanese Jujutsu /Judo instructor as a young boy. Later in life he DESCRIBED it, as he remembered, as Daito/Yoshin Ryu styled Jujutsu. This developed, unfortunately, to Dai-Yoshin....Mr. Church NEVER claimed any relationship to this except to describe the training received as a young boy. After Church sensei's death, it was BLOWN way out of porportion to being some great art that was somehow passed to Mr. Sacronowski. I believe the truthfulness of this was questioned and disproven. You can read most of this on e-budo.
I will not comment on the ability of Mr. Sacronowski or any of his students since I have no personal experience of them. I just stay away because of all of the historical "problems".


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## frank raud

There is a Juko-ryu Ju Jitsu out of Britain that is not related to Sacarnowski. There are a few satellite schools in Canada, not sure if there are any in the States. Shihan Brian Cheek is head honcho.


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## TimoS

frank raud said:
			
		

> There is a Juko-ryu Ju Jitsu out of Britain that is not related to Sacarnowski



I think, though I'm not quite sure that it is related. As I understand it, it was the style of Morris and Clark, but later on they distanced themselves from Sacharnowski


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## bignick

I've met a practitioner of Juko Kai that joined our jujutsu club.  He talked a lot about the jujutsu stuff they used to do, but I never saw any of it.  What exactly get's taught under the premise Juko Kai, I was of the understanding it was mostly their Combat Ki stuff.


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## frank raud

TimoS said:
			
		

> I think, though I'm not quite sure that it is related. As I understand it, it was the style of Morris and Clark, but later on they distanced themselves from Sacharnowski


I will admit some confusion with the connection between Clark, Morris, and Sac. What I do know, is in the 15- 20 years I have been going to semi-annual seminars by Morris(never had any dealings with Clark), I have only seen solid basic ju jitsu, nothing flowery or involving secret moves. When Morris Sensei hits, its fast and hard.

Both Robert Clark and Richard Morris had plenty of training and teaching time under their belts before their assocciation with Sac., I think it was a business arrangement that didn't work out.


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## TimoS

frank raud said:
			
		

> I will admit some confusion with the connection between Clark, Morris, and Sac. What I do know, is in the 15- 20 years I have been going to semi-annual seminars by Morris(never had any dealings with Clark), I have only seen solid basic ju jitsu, nothing flowery or involving secret moves. When Morris Sensei hits, its fast and hard.



Yes, I've heard similar stuff. I myself practised years ago for a while a style that was derived from Clark's and Morris' style and while there is some debate whether it can really be called jujutsu (as it has no real roots in any koryu styles) I will admit that it was quite realistic, or at least seemed like that to me back then


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## jujutsu_indonesia

bignick said:
			
		

> I've met a practitioner of Juko Kai that joined our jujutsu club. He talked a lot about the jujutsu stuff they used to do, but I never saw any of it. What exactly get's taught under the premise Juko Kai, I was of the understanding it was mostly their Combat Ki stuff.


 
I have only seen daiyoshin-ryu aikido video done by Mary Sacharnoski. Looks like aikido to me, rather strange aikido with even bigger circle and lots of turning around by tori after completing technique. The beginning of the video has Jukokai logo in it.


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## mybloodyvalentine

Hello, Pleasure to meet you good peeps. I was scanning through the internet on my art, and I happened to find a link to this forum. Forgive me if im dragging up an old post, but as it appears, its a post without anwsers, so I thought to anwser it.



To tell you what my art is, is to begin with its name: Juko Ryu 

Ju (hard) ko (soft) Ryu (style)

I do believe thats how it is, I might have it vice versa, o'well. Anyways, it's a form of jujitsu where the one whom is training learns to use nothing, but lethal moves (nothing flashy or showy) to hurt or kill the one whom they are fighting.


The reason our style is hard/soft is because we dont believe in using strength, just Kie (spelling?) energy. Ill post more on my art later


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## TimoS

mybloodyvalentine said:
			
		

> Ju (hard) ko (soft) Ryu (style)


Not quite....  First of all _ju_ means soft, and hard would be _go_. I don't speak japanese, but looking at the kanji displayed here and here, it looks to me that the _ko_ is written with a different kanji, so it might not mean hard (it is a bit hard to read because the text in the jukokai logo is so small)



			
				mybloodyvalentine said:
			
		

> Anyways, it's a form of jujitsu where the one whom is training learns to use nothing, but lethal moves (nothing flashy or showy) to hurt or kill the one whom they are fighting.



So all your moves are designed to kill? Wow, must be hard finding training partners


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## mybloodyvalentine

Im sorry, I might have gone over board by saying "every move" is designed to kill, when its not (just most them). Finding a training partner (yoko) isn't hard, typically they need to simply know how to fall, and tap out.

Not very many people use this to *spar*, or play around. Its very combative, and not very competitive. Juko Kia, is not a sport, simply put. It's a way to kill, or defend.Its unlike any other art ive ever taken......

Most the history posted here is wrong btw......


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## TimoS

mybloodyvalentine said:
			
		

> Juko Kia, is not a sport, simply put. It's a way to kill, or defend.Its unlike any other art ive ever taken......



Sounds to me like any martial art (martial sports are a different matter altogether). I don't practise karate for sport and most certainly when I actively practised kobujutsu (included are jujutsu, jojutsu and tojutsu), there is no way those can be practised as sports. This leads me to think that your experience in other arts isn't that vast



> Most the history posted here is wrong btw......



Well, maybe you could then write a more correct history for us


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## Keikai

mybloodyvalentine said:
			
		

> Im sorry, I might have gone over board by saying "every move" is designed to kill, when its not (just most them). Finding a training partner (yoko) isn't hard, typically they need to simply know how to fall, and tap out.
> 
> Not very many people use this to *spar*, or play around. Its very combative, and not very competitive. Juko Kia, is not a sport, simply put. It's a way to kill, or defend.Its unlike any other art ive ever taken......
> 
> Most the history posted here is wrong btw......


 
The term YOKO means side. I believe you mean UKE = receiver or attacker as well as block.

As for Juko Ryu. There was a conection between Clark and Morris and Sch.... Clark and Morris formed the World Ju Jitsu Federation after the time they spent with Sch... As I understand, from my late sensei who was for a time vice president of the WJJF, the certificates used by the WJJF for a time were based upon the certificates issued by Sch... I know that they have been changed for some years now.

Greg Palmer

Tsutsumi Hozan Ryu


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## bushi jon

Juko Ryu has a combines traditional and non-traditional Jujutsu,Kempo and breathing tech. Though there may be some poeple that dout some of the people and the leaders of Juko Kai they are for the most part a talented group of people.I am an x member no longer practicing so I realy have no hidden agenda to promote or slam JKI. Everyone that I have met in JKI was a stand up person. I was involved several years and before that I was involved with American Kempo and boxing.


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## TimoS

bushi jon said:
			
		

> Juko Ryu has a combines traditional and non-traditional Jujutsu,Kempo and breathing tech.



Ok, so which traditional jujutsu ryu is it (partially) based on?


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## bushi jon

I was told at one time but that was years prior. I have seen documentation and a menkyo lic. I can not remember what ryu it was from. I have also seen ranks from the siedokan(shian toma). Once again I have no desire to slam nor promote if someone wants honest information all they have to do is pm me. The guys that I know are very good Martial Artist that have been training many years.


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## Kreth

Well... take a look at the 2nd name in this list.


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## SFC JeffJ

Thanks Kreth, that's very enlightening.


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## TimoS

bushi jon said:
			
		

> I have also seen ranks from the siedokan(shian toma)



At some stage the kanji for _sei_ that Sacharnoski was using in his Seidokan rank certificate translated into sex  So Seidokan literally meant Sex way house. You can check it out yourself: http://www.e-budokai.com/jukokai/index.htm. Search for Toma on the page


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## apex46550

I took my son to these classes for a couple years.  I participated with him and  while his interest waned, mine was increasing week after week.  I was not into these or any arts before attending; but, I am a Juko Ryu Juijitsu supporter now! 

First, this is a great physical fitness program.
Second, it proved to be relaxing.
And finally, this is one mean art!  No sporting or serious contests exist any longer because the craft is so brutal.  Quick, effective destruction of your opponent is the fundamental description I would offer.  Joint and bone breaking / manipulation at its very finest.  If there is a more profficient means of elliminating one's opponent, I could not imagine what it might be.

Yes, it is worth your time and energy!


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## imfooeydini

Well,
I practice Seidokan from Shian Toma.
The group you are refering to, has left Toma Sensei long ago.
When I travel this is an issue, They will ask for lineage. Not all names mean the same style

Mike


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## TimoS

imfooeydini said:


> The group you are refering to, has left Toma Sensei long ago.



Or, in Sacharnoski (I never know how that is spelled ) case, they most likely never were part of Toma's organization.


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## oak

JuKo Rue- kill, cripple, maim is the only acceptable outcome. The art is Combat Ju-Jutsu. It is a blend of Kempo Karate and Aiki Jujitsu. This art is fluid, powerful, and effective. Based off the sword its movements can flow soft (Aiki) then go hard (Kempo) or vice-versa, stay completely Kempo or Aiki. Kicks, punches, throws, locks (breaks), and chokes. For multiple attackers.


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## oak

JuKo Rue- kill, cripple, maim is the only acceptable outcome. The art is Combat Ju-Jutsu. It is a blend of Kempo Karate and Aiki Jujitsu. This art is fluid, powerful, and effective. Based off the sword its movements can flow soft (Aiki) then go hard (Kempo) or vice-versa, stay completely Kempo or Aiki. Kicks, punches, throws, locks (breaks), and chokes. For multiple attackers.


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## TimoS

oak said:


> The art is Combat Ju-Jutsu



Right, sure... And I guess none of the other, _authentic_ jujutsu styles are for combat



> Based off the sword



If you say so. Based on the videos I've seen, I disagree


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## Aiki Lee

I personally don't understand how some arts can proclaim that they are a "no nonsense; non-competition based program, with techniques used for killing and maiming." ALL traditional Jujutsu is combat effective! If a classical combative martial art does not seem very effective the likley cause is that the practitioner is not very knowledgeable and should not be used to judge the system as a whole.


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## lklawson

Himura Kenshin said:


> I personally don't understand how some arts can proclaim that they are a "no nonsense; non-competition based program, with techniques used for killing and maiming." ALL traditional Jujutsu is combat effective! If a classical combative martial art does not seem very effective the likley cause is that the practitioner is not very knowledgeable and should not be used to judge the system as a whole.


There are any number of possible reasons.  A few of which are:

incomplete transmission of the system due to accident (the student didn't get the whole ball of wax because he moved, the instructor died, he suffered a brain injury, etc.)
incomplete transmission of the system due to deliberate withholding of information
poor proponent of the system (he "knows the moves" but he's just not very good at stringing them together usefully)
loss of context for certain techniques or strategies. i.e.:techniques useful against/by pole-arm techniques have little to no modern context to understand them in
misunderstanding/misapplication of techniques or strategies for whatever reason.  i.e.: intructor teaches a techinque intended for engaging the sword of an opponent with the defender's sword inappropriately as useful empty handed against empty handed.
deliberate misinformation/misrepresentation.  IOW, lie to the non-initiates in order to protect secret techniques or to deliberately foster a lower-than-accurate estimation of another practictioner/schools effectiveness (some Silat systems/instructors have been accused of this)
The system never needed to develop techniques in response to a given threat - i.e.: The system may not have valid empty handed defenses against a knife because, at the time of formation, no individual would have not had immediate access to a defensive weapon and thus it would have been a waste of effort to formulate an empty-handed response.
etc.
In short, there is a nearly endless list of reasons, and yes, one of them could be that the system in question really, truly IS less effective in certain given contexts.  For instance, most sword arts (Western, Eastern, Javanese, etc.) are just this side of freaking WORTHLESS on a WWII battlefield.  They're pretty blasted innefective against a K99 or M1 fired from 500 yards and cover.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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