# Gibson Guitars, on E.P.A.  most wanted list



## billc (Aug 28, 2011)

The maker of Gibson Guitars was raided by the feds.   They came in as if Gibson was a crack house, and scared everyone who worked there.  What were they after, illegal drugs?  Horded illegal weapons that were going to be sent to mexican drug cartels?  No, they had wood from india.  Wood that they seem to have had all the legal paperwork for.  Could it be that Gibson was raided because their C.E.O. is a republican, and their chief competitor supports Barak Obama?  Is it possible that something as petty as that happened?  Here is an article on the raid.

http://biggovernment.com/lstranahan...usiness-attacks-iconic-american-manufacturer/

http://biggovernment.com/awrhawkins...-but-mums-still-the-word-on-fast-and-furious/


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## granfire (Aug 28, 2011)

oh billi COME ON!!!


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## Sukerkin (Aug 28, 2011)

First off, aye it's barmy to carry out a 'raid' on such a respected business in such a fashion.

Secondly, mate, you need to change the record and take a rest from seeing the world in such a fractured Republican-vs-Democrat way.  It's not normal and it's not healthy.


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## billc (Aug 28, 2011)

http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/j...-uses-same-wood-experienced-no-federal-raids/



> Via Andrew Lawton at Landmark Report:
> One of Gibson&#8217;s leading competitors is C.F. Martin & Company. The C.E.O., Chris Martin IV, is a long-time Democratic supporter, with $35,400 in contributions to Democratic candidates and the DNC over the past couple of elections (though, to be fair, he _did_ donate a whopping $750 to Republican Congressmen in the 90s.) According to C.F. Martin&#8217;s catalog, several of their guitars contain &#8220;East Indian Rosewood.&#8221; In case you were wondering, that is the exact same wood in at least ten of Gibson&#8217;s guitars.​


[/QUOTE]


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## Tez3 (Aug 28, 2011)

Might be more to do with this.
http://www.illegal-logging.info/approach.php?a_id=111
http://www.wrm.org.uy/bulletin/98/India.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/jul/14/kashmir-forests-illegal-logging-threat


Deforestation is a huge problem in Asia, if there are no trees to hold the soil when the monsoons comes there are huge mudslides, killing many, the land becomes unable to support crops and many animals such as the tiger become extinct.
This is a far bigger problem than just a company having some woord form India forst appears, it's peoples lives here.

Somewhat dishonourable to turn an issue as important as this to the people of India into a rant about American politicians, not everything is about American politics you know.


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## billc (Aug 28, 2011)

From one of the above articles:



> * Not about illegal logging, not about conservation, not about the environment
> *The U.S. Lacey Act does not directly address conservation issues but is about obeying all laws of the countries from which wood products are procured. This law reads that you are guilty if you did not observe a law even though you had no knowledge of that law in a foreign country. The U.S. Lacey Act is only applicable when a foreign law has been violated





> * Nearly two years later, no charges have been filed
> *In 2009, more than a dozen agents with automatic weapons invaded the Gibson factory in Nashville. The Government seized guitars and a substantial amount of ebony fingerboard blanks from Madagascar. To date, 1 year and 9 months later, criminal charges have NOT been filed, yet the Government still holds Gibsons property. Gibson has obtained sworn statements and documents from the Madagascar government and these materials, which have been filed in federal court, show that the wood seized in 2009 was legally exported under Madagascar law and that no law has been violated. Gibson is attempting to have its property returned in a civil proceeding that is pending in federal court.
> The Justice Department has asked the judge to stop the court case indefinitely.





> * Wood seized was Forest Stewardship Council Controlled
> *The wood the Government seized on August 24 is from a Forest Stewardship Council certified supplier and is FSC Controlled, meaning that the wood complies with the standards of the Forest Stewardship Council, which is an industry-recognized and independent, not-for-profit organization established to promote responsible management of the worlds forests. FSC Controlled Wood standards require, among other things, that the wood not be illegally harvested and not be harvested in violation of traditional and civil rights. See www.fsc.org for more information. Gibson has a long history of supporting sustainable and responsible sources of wood and has worked diligently with entities such as the Rainforest Alliance and Greenpeace to secure FSC certified supplies. The wood seized on August 24 satisfied FSC standards.


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## billc (Aug 28, 2011)

A radio interview with the C.E.O. of Gibson Guitars:

http://www.breitbart.tv/gibson-guitar-ceo-on-obama-doj-raids-were-being-persecuted/


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## Steve (Aug 28, 2011)

Those who know won't tell, and those who would tell will never know.  In other words, the OP might be right, but we'll never know for sure.  If you're inclined to believe it, you'll believe it.  If not, you won't.

I have an old Gibson guitar.  It's an old tenor guitar (four strings).  My grandfather (a tenor banjo player) bought it because it can be tuned just like a banjo.  Since Gibson = conservative, is that further evidence that I'm not the liberal you guys believe me to be?


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## granfire (Aug 28, 2011)

stevebjj said:


> Those who know won't tell, and those who would tell will never know.  In other words, the OP might be right, but we'll never know for sure.  If you're inclined to believe it, you'll believe it.  If not, you won't.
> 
> I have an old Gibson guitar.  It's an old tenor guitar (four strings).  My grandfather (a tenor banjo player) bought it because it can be tuned just like a banjo.  Since Gibson = conservative, is that further evidence that I'm not the liberal you guys believe me to be?




yeah, right. guitars are the instrument of the leftist commy pinkos!
After all, try to sit around a campfire and play Kumbaya on a piano!

(and don't get me started on the electric ones...)


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## Omar B (Aug 28, 2011)

Blah blah blah.  Gibson gets raided for using Indian rosewood and mahogany which is prohibited and protected for some reason.  The crap Brazilian rosewood and mahogany can be used, but looks like crap and sounds even worse.  I remember a few years ago Gibson was running the Smartwood Exotics made out of alternate woods that were more environmentally friendly.  Only thing is, there's a reason mahogany, rosewood, ebony, rock maple are used so much, they are good tonewoods and you can't expect a guitar to make toneful guitars with laws that essentially turn their build materials into contraband.

If these guys have a problem with Gibson using exotics then they would throw me in the clink with my African ebony fretboards, mother of pearl inlays and my abalone inlays.  Luckily I play Carvins, all hand made and I'm the one on the hook for all this crap since I'm the one who picked the woods and the endangered species (abalone) for inlays.


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## Tez3 (Aug 28, 2011)

stevebjj said:


> Those who know won't tell, and those who would tell will never know. In other words, the OP might be right, but we'll never know for sure. If you're inclined to believe it, you'll believe it. If not, you won't.
> 
> I have an old Gibson guitar. It's an old tenor guitar (four strings). My grandfather (a tenor banjo player) bought it because it can be tuned just like a banjo. Since Gibson = conservative, is that further evidence that I'm not the liberal you guys believe me to be?





True enough, but if you are inclined to see reds under the bed you will always believe whatever the latest conspiracy is against the 'correct' people lol! It must be terribly tiring to be constantly on guard against the communist tide in the States!

Steve if you post up anything against the stuff Bill posts you are going to be a bleeding heart liberal in his eyes, only if you agree with _everything_ he writes and posts will you be 'clean' in his eyes and a true patriot.


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## Omar B (Aug 28, 2011)

Oh poo.  U just uploaded like 15 new guitar pictures into the gallery then all of a sudden the damn thing said there were no pictures in the gallery.  I'm way too lazy to do that again till later.


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## JohnEdward (Aug 28, 2011)

> Today, Juszkiewicz said that he was, very gratified at the medias overwhelmingly supportive coverage of the issue this week and especially encouraged by the huge number of positive comments on various social media platforms.
> 
> 
> He also added, noting the volume of attention the story has received, perhaps our good friends in the media can use their investigative skills to help us to get the bottom of exactly why the government has singled out Gibson for harassment.
> ...



I smell a conspiracy, a republican on republican hate crime. Someone in the Gibson company works for Sony's PS Guitar Hero game division. Gibson says it obtained the wood legally, but is that really the truth?  Are they not covering something up, or are they a victim like other government targeted republican companies like Enron. Why is it so many republican company's have been under invention, raided, shut down, and destroy over the last decade the government. All the rules and regulations, and legislation hamming the free market and business operations.  It is that the Chinese and India the puppet masters of our government as they force and enslave our republican companies to relocate factories, business and jobs over there? And who are their masters? It has to be Sony's PS Guitar Hero game division. They are the ones behind the federal raid on Gibson corporation, whose CEO is know to be environmentally friendly pro wood anti-plastic guitar console. Of course they leave C.F. Martian along because Martian still a family owned company had no role in Elger/Ibanez  Guitars being sued by Gibson. It is known that Gibson was going out of business at the time it was losing money to the cheaper Ibanez's Les Paul knock offs, and marketing strategies. That is where the aliens come in, they own Sony and they owned Ibanez too. It is an alien conspiracy I tell you. But luckily the company did a Tom Cruise on Oprah's couch, Tom Cruise is also an alien like John Travolta. And Oprah and Obama are friends, and she felt Tom ruined her couch and told Obama to raid Gibson using the ruse Sheryl Crow cares about trees and only uses one square of toilet paper, which means Gibson was using endangered trees. It is a republican on republican hate crime, where C.F. Martin co. is the real victim, and Oprah's couch. And that folks is at the bottom of all this.


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## Omar B (Aug 28, 2011)

Ok, got the upload of the guitars to work.  Have a look in my gallery of some new pix taken on my balcony.  Check out all that "contraband."


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## Jenna (Aug 28, 2011)

JohnEdward said:


> I smell a conspiracy, a republican on republican hate crime. Someone in the Gibson company works for Sony's PS Guitar Hero game division. Gibson says it obtained the wood legally, but is that really the truth?  Are they not covering something up, or are they a victim like other government targeted republican companies like Enron. Why is it so many republican company's have been under invention, raided, shut down, and destroy over the last decade the government. All the rules and regulations, and legislation hamming the free market and business operations.  It is that the Chinese and India the puppet masters of our government as they force and enslave our republican companies to relocate factories, business and jobs over there? And who are their masters? It has to be Sony's PS Guitar Hero game division. They are the ones behind the federal raid on Gibson corporation, whose CEO is know to be environmentally friendly pro wood anti-plastic guitar console. Of course they leave C.F. Martian along because Martian still a family owned company had no role in Elger/Ibanez  Guitars being sued by Gibson. It is known that Gibson was going out of business at the time it was losing money to the cheaper Ibanez's Les Paul knock offs, and marketing strategies. That is where the aliens come in, they own Sony and they owned Ibanez too. It is an alien conspiracy I tell you. But luckily the company did a Tom Cruise on Oprah's couch, Tom Cruise is also an alien like John Travolta. And Oprah and Obama are friends, and she felt Tom ruined her couch and told Obama to raid Gibson using the ruse Sheryl Crow cares about trees and only uses one square of toilet paper, which means Gibson was using endangered trees. It is a republican on republican hate crime, where C.F. Martin co. is the real victim, and Oprah's couch. And that folks is at the bottom of all this.


So it all started with that couch jumping.  I always thought there was something even more weird going on under the skin of even _that _weirdness.


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## David43515 (Aug 28, 2011)

To me it just sounds like some beurocrat trying to make a name for himself fouled up, and now rather than take the heat for it they`re trying to sweep it under the rug rather than have a trial over the wrongly confiscated property. I doubt it has anything to do with political contributions and plenty to do with good old fashioned CYA mentality.


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