# Sad Day in Canada



## Lisa (Mar 3, 2005)

I am speechless, my cousin is with this detachment and thankfully he was not involved.  My uncle was beside himself all afternoon.  

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1109878667829_105287867/?hub=Canada
*Four Alberta RCMP officers killed during raid*

                                           var byString = "";             var sourceString = "CTV.ca News Staff";             if ((sourceString != "") && (byString != "")) {                 document.write(byString + ", ");             } else {               document.write(byString);             }       CTV.ca News Staff

                 Four police officers are dead after conducting a raid on a marijuana grow operation northwest of Edmonton on Thursday.

  At approximately 10 a.m. MT, a shootout broke out between police and a male suspect at a farmhouse in Rochfort Bridge near the community of Mayerthorpe, about 130 kilometres northwest of Edmonton. 

  Alberta Solicitor General Harvey Cenaiko says the officers were executing a search warrant when they were met with gunfire.

  RCMP spokesman Cpl. Wayne Oakes confirms that the officers were conducting an investigation at a rural residence. He said there was reason to believe a lone male suspect was armed with a high-powered rifle.

  A government source told The Canadian Press that a lone male suspect shot the officers with the high-powered rifle before killing himself.

  A fifth RCMP officer, who was in the area on an unrelated stolen property investigation, discovered the bodies, the source said. 

  In an early evening news conference from Mayerthorpe, RCMP Commanding Officer Bill Sweeney said: "As you can well imagine, the loss of four police officers is unprecedented in recent history in Canada. . . . It's devastating." 

  He added that not since the Northwest Rebellion of 1885 have so many police officers been killed in the line of duty.

  The RCMP has not released the names of the deceased officers, as they are still in the process of notifying family members. Sweeney said three of the officers were based in Mayerthorpe, and one was from Whitecourt, Alberta.

  In a statement, Prime Minister Paul Martin said:  

  "On behalf of the Government of Canada, I would like to express my condolences to the families of the officers who were killed as they carried out their duty in enforcing the law and protecting the public.  

  "At this moment of difficulty and loss, you are in our thoughts and prayers."

  Maj. Scott Lundy, a spokesman for Edmonton Garrison, said the military received a request just after 12:30 p.m. MT from the RCMP for assistance. 

  He said two armoured personnel carriers, an ambulance and about 20 military personnel were dispatched from the military base shortly after that.

  But about two hours later, police told the military their help was no longer needed.

  Alberta Premier Ralph Klein said he was surprised and saddened that such a tragedy would occur in the quiet farming community.

  "I would hope that it would serve as a lesson for all those who want to enter into something illegal not to do so," he said.


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## Flatlander (Mar 3, 2005)

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## Bammx2 (Mar 3, 2005)

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## Feisty Mouse (Mar 3, 2005)

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## Cryozombie (Mar 3, 2005)

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## Tgace (Mar 3, 2005)

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## TigerWoman (Mar 3, 2005)

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## kid (Mar 3, 2005)

I got to say something.  I feel really bad for the each of the officers families, It is a great loss.  I also feel for the gunmans family whom for all we know was being supported by this man.  And that could be why he opened fire on the police.  He might have thought he was protecting his families welfare or anything like that.  There is probably unseen factors in this whole deal and i don't like it one bit.  I trully is a sad day in Canada.  You know this never would have happened if marijuana was legalized.  But i don't want to go there in this thread.  God bless those four officers and please show mercy on the other man.



Kid


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## shesulsa (Mar 4, 2005)

....


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## Tgace (Mar 4, 2005)

kid said:
			
		

> I got to say something. I feel really bad for the each of the officers families, It is a great loss. I also feel for the gunmans family whom for all we know was being supported by this man. And that could be why he opened fire on the police. He might have thought he was protecting his families welfare or anything like that. There is probably unseen factors in this whole deal and i don't like it one bit. I trully is a sad day in Canada. You know this never would have happened if marijuana was legalized. But i don't want to go there in this thread. God bless those four officers and please show mercy on the other man.
> 
> 
> 
> Kid


Supporting his family by something he KNEW was illegal and KNEW he was going to get in trouble for. If you are going to play the game you should accept the consequences....this guy could just as easily started shooting because he had a traffic warrant, its not about Marijuana, its about doing something illegal, knowing its illegal and being willing to kill instead of facing the music for your choices. Protecting his families welfare? Did he think he'd just keep killing all the cops that showed up so he could keep on farming his weed? He wasnt thinking much at all past "**** im going to go to jail!"


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## Lisa (Mar 4, 2005)

They have update the story from the link I posted.  I took this excerpt...

*Police would not confirm the identity of the suspect, but CTV's Edmonton affiliate, CFRN, spoke with a man who identified himself as the gunman's father. *

*Bill Roszko said his son, Jim, was the shooter. He added Jim had an angry streak as far back as he can remember: "Because of the drugs, you know, and the bad company with bad boys . . . dragged him off the good tracks," he told CFRN. *

*"I don't want to have him as my son for what he was like, and the way things ended up. He is not my son."*

*CFRN reports Jim Roszko was the youngest in a large family, and that his troubled life led others in the family to stay away from him.* 

 Obviously the father of the gunman is distraught and upset by what happened.  I hope the gunman's family can find peace someday.


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## RandomPhantom700 (Mar 4, 2005)

One guy with a rifle took out four cops?  I don't know what's more surprising, that or the fact that this is the largest number of cops lost since the 1885 rebellion.  

And of course, condolensces to the family and all.....


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## Ray (Mar 4, 2005)

kid said:
			
		

> ... I trully is a sad day in Canada. You know this never would have happened if marijuana was legalized...


What are you saying?  Do you mean that the marijuana growers were forced into committing murder?  Do you think that "magically" the dope growers would have been turned into upstanding citizens?  Or are you saying that upstanding citizens would take over a legalized marijuana industry and the bad people would sink back into the shadows of another illegal industry?


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## Tgace (Mar 4, 2005)

RandomPhantom700 said:
			
		

> One guy with a rifle took out four cops? I don't know what's more surprising, that or the fact that this is the largest number of cops lost since the 1885 rebellion.
> 
> And of course, condolensces to the family and all.....


One guy (in I believe Alabama) took out 3 US cops with an SKS while serving a warrant last year...


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## Lisa (Mar 4, 2005)

RandomPhantom700 said:
			
		

> One guy with a rifle took out four cops? I don't know what's more surprising, that or the fact that this is the largest number of cops lost since the 1885 rebellion.
> 
> And of course, condolensces to the family and all.....


 It is my understanding that they were at the farm yard the day before to serve the warrant and no one was there.  Two of the police officers stayed the night to keep an eye on the Quanset just in case someone came back.  The next morning the two other officers joined them.  Perhaps their guard was down thinking they were alone and that there wasn't any threat.  Either way, we now have 5 families that are dealing with a great loss and a lot of heartache.


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## ginshun (Mar 4, 2005)

My condolences to the families.


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## hardheadjarhead (Mar 4, 2005)

Nalia said:
			
		

> *"I don't want to have him as my son for what he was like, and the way things ended up. He is not my son."*
> 
> *CFRN reports Jim Roszko was the youngest in a large family, and that his troubled life led others in the family to stay away from him.*




That might say a lot as to why this kid was troubled.  Sounds like he had one Hell of a loyal and loving father...a real nurturer who was patient and loving in dealing with his son's challenges in life.  

Goodness, I hope people here can recognize sarcasm.

This is a tragedy.  Let's not get into making it a morality play where we squabble about who were good guys and bad guys.  



Regards,


Steve


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## kid (Mar 4, 2005)

Ray said:
			
		

> What are you saying? Do you mean that the marijuana growers were forced into committing murder? Do you think that "magically" the dope growers would have been turned into upstanding citizens? Or are you saying that upstanding citizens would take over a legalized marijuana industry and the bad people would sink back into the shadows of another illegal industry?


Im saying if marijuana was legal why would he have shot at the officers. And you can't compair a feild of marijuana to a traffic warrent there is a big difference in the jail time there. iI do beleive the man made the wrong decision to start shooting, but that is done already we can only try to prevent it later. Good luck trying to stop drug trafficing without making it easier to get at walmart or Holiday gas stations. Instead of some shady charecters basement, or an alley. And you dont know that "the dope growers" won't turn into outstanding citizens, they might and might not.


I beleive that the man was obviously in the wrong and he knew it thats why he poped himself.


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## Tgace (Mar 4, 2005)

hardheadjarhead said:
			
		

> That might say a lot as to why this kid was troubled. Sounds like he had one Hell of a loyal and loving father...a real nurturer who was patient and loving in dealing with his son's challenges in life.
> 
> Goodness, I hope people here can recognize sarcasm.
> 
> ...


Yeah a guy who mows down four cops is just a misunderstood person who had a bad childhood and an un-loving father. The cops were probably dirty anyway. I mean they were after a pot grower after all. The stuff should be legal....:shrug:


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## Tgace (Mar 4, 2005)

kid said:
			
		

> Im saying if marijuana was legal why would he have shot at the officers. And you can't compair a feild of marijuana to a traffic warrent there is a big difference in the jail time there. iI do beleive the man made the wrong decision to start shooting, but that is done already we can only try to prevent it later. Good luck trying to stop drug trafficing without making it easier to get at walmart or Holiday gas stations. Instead of some shady charecters basement, or an alley. And you dont know that "the dope growers" won't turn into outstanding citizens, they might and might not.
> 
> 
> I beleive that the man was obviously in the wrong and he knew it thats why he poped himself.


The traffic warrant example was to say that the issue is that its not about "legalizing" anything to prevent violence. If pot was legal this guy probably would have been doing something else illegal. He probably would have shot because he had a traffic warrant...get it? To automatically paint him as some poor desparate family guy growing weed to support his family kinda shows a prejudice IMO.


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## kid (Mar 4, 2005)

To all of you that think i don't care about the tragedy that happened.  And to all of you that think that puting an opinion in to try and help eradicate a problem.  Thanx, NOT!  I do care Aand last night when i read that article, i was this close to crying.:wah:  I don't have anyreason to cry about it besides that i think that all five lives that were lost were precious.  Not the place,  aurguing to try and legalize pot, thanks for trying to make me feel less than human.:2xBird2:


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## Tgace (Mar 4, 2005)

Dude you are the one who brought the legalization issue to the thread about murdered cops....what do you expect, espically from one of their brothers?


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## kid (Mar 4, 2005)

Tgace said:
			
		

> Dude you are the one who brought the legalization issue to the thread about murdered cops....what do you expect, espically from one of their brothers?


True, but i threw it out there as an opinion.  And for people to read only what they want to and disregard the rest.  It shows what type of power media has on them.  If you disagree say it loud and proud.  Sorry that things took a wild turn in this thread.  If you want to talk about legalization of pot you and i know where its done.


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## Flatlander (Mar 4, 2005)

kid said:
			
		

> To all of you that think i don't care about the tragedy that happened. And to all of you that think that puting an opinion in to try and help eradicate a problem. Thanx, NOT! I do care Aand last night when i read that article, i was this close to crying.:wah: I don't have anyreason to cry about it besides that i think that all five lives that were lost were precious. Not the place, aurguing to try and legalize pot, thanks for trying to make me feel less than human.:2xBird2:


Kid, I would like to help you out with something here.  In the Study, we generally tend to think very carefully about the issue up for discussion, and contribute in a way that is thoughtful and respectful (most of the time).  I reccommend you step back and think about this for a minute.  This thread is specifically dedicated to a news article informing us of the loss of life of four police officers who were killed on duty.  It is not about the legalization of marijuana.  We have another thread which is specific to that issue.

I think that perhaps a few people are taking issue with your using this tragedy as leverage to support your position on the marijuana debate.  This is not the place for that.  Can you see how a fellow officer might take offense at this opportunism?  Beyond that, its simply disrespectful.  Please, read over Hardheadjarhead's post again.  

Above all else, think about this: there could be surviving relatives of these murdered officers reading this thread.  How do you suppose they might feel about your comments?

Please, I don't really want to further this discussion in thread.  Let's leave the thread for others to pay their respects.  :asian:


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## Tgace (Mar 4, 2005)

Its not about marijuana, its about trying to rationalize an unjustifiable act...


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## raedyn (Mar 4, 2005)

The RCMP* said the assailant was "known to police". Locals said he has a violent history and has made a lot of trouble for certain other families in the area. The mounties were serving a warrant re: stolen property & a suspected marijuana grow op.

So this certainly wasn't all about the marijuana, but people on either side of the decriminaliztion/legalization debate will certainly try and construe it as such.

Pro-pot people will say "if marijuana was legal, this guy wouldn't have felt the need to shoot those cops" but that doesn't make sense because
1)not everyone that is getting busted for breaking the law feels it's important to shoot the officers investigating them
2) they were also investigating stolen property (which no one is proposing becomes legalized) so he might have shot them over just that
3) this guy had a violent history anyways, so he might have shot _anyone_ who was on his property.

Anti-pot people will say this proves Drugs Are Always Bad and Drug Users Are Bad People. But that doesn't make sense because
1) Not everyone who uses marijuana would go to that great of lengths in order to protect their stash
2) Not everyone who uses or gows marijuana are involved in other criminal activities
3) If there was a legal controlled supply of marijuana, then no one would need to go to this guy and his ilk for their supply. His market would evaporate.

One unfortunate problem this raises: marijuana smokers who are otherwise law-abiding citizens and are horrified by cop-killings may be unwittingly supporting this guy and others like him. On the black market, you don't always know who you are buying from. Even if you know and trust the person you are buying from, further up the chain you can be supporting all kinds of ugliness that you don't want to support.

* For those that don't know: the Royal Canadian Mounted Police is Canada's national police force and the only police for small towns for most of the country. Instead of state police forces, most provinces just have the RCMP outside of major centers.


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## raedyn (Mar 4, 2005)

errr... ahh... sorry, I took a long time writing that post, and flatlander's and tgace's comments weren't there yet.

I am horrified by this tragedy. No one's drug habit is worth this.


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## Kenpo Mama (Mar 4, 2005)

Condolences to the families that were affected by this terrible tragedy.


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## Makalakumu (Mar 4, 2005)

Tgace said:
			
		

> Its not about marijuana, its about trying to rationalize an unjustifiable act...



 :asian: 

This was not worth the lives that were lost.


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## kid (Mar 4, 2005)

my appologies. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I didn't mean any disrespect to families of the lives that were lost in this tragic event. I didn't mean it as a justifiable ends to a mans murderous urges. I was only tring to look at it optimistically and to say we don't know why this man would do such a thing this drastic. Again i give my depest regards to the families. I am done trying to defend myself in this thread.  i should have held my hands back from giving my opinion.  And only give my condolences.


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## kid (Mar 4, 2005)

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## Lisa (Mar 4, 2005)

Const. Peter Christopher Schiemann, 25;
Const. Anthony Fitzgerald Orion Gordon, 28;
Const. Lionide Nicholas Johnston, 32,
Const. Brock Warren Myrol, 29. 
 :asian:....


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## Flatlander (Mar 4, 2005)

Nalia said:
			
		

> Const. Peter Christopher Schiemann, 25;
> Const. Anthony Fitzgerald Orion Gordon, 28;
> Const. Lionide Nicholas Johnston, 32,
> Const. Brock Warren Myrol, 29.
> :asian:....


I bet I've made pizza for these guys.  All RCMP recruits do their training here in Regina, and they love the pizza from the pizzaria that I used to manage.  Their ages as posted would line up with when I would have been working there.

In the RCMP, the initial training course which takes somewhere in the neighbourhood of 6-9 months is totally unpaid.  They even have to pay a few expenses over that period - I believe they even need to pay a bit for room and board.  Members of the RCMP need to really want that job.  I don't know too many people who would be prepared to support themselves as well as incur expenses for such an extended training period.  How can we not honour their sacrifice?  It takes a special kind of person to risk their lives as a course of daily duty for public safety.


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## raedyn (Mar 4, 2005)

Flatlander said:
			
		

> I bet I've made pizza for these guys.


 Wow, I didn't think of that aspect, but you probably have. And they've probably driven around in around and around the area where my mom lives because they do some of their driving training in the neighbourhood where I grew up.



> In the RCMP, the initial training course which takes somewhere in the neighbourhood of 6-9 months is totally unpaid. They even have to pay a few expenses over that period - I believe they even need to pay a bit for room and board. Members of the RCMP need to really want that job. I don't know too many people who would be prepared to support themselves as well as incur expenses for such an extended training period. How can we not honour their sacrifice? It takes a special kind of person to risk their lives as a course of daily duty for public safety.


Additionally, every recruit must have a University degree before entrance. These are dedicated men and women. (As are their non-RCMP counterparts of course. This force just has a particularly high standard from their recruits.)


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## Tgace (Mar 4, 2005)

So much for just being "report takers" and "mess cleaners" huh???


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## Deuce (Mar 4, 2005)

raedyn said:
			
		

> Additionally, every recruit must have a University degree before entrance. These are dedicated men and women. (As are their non-RCMP counterparts of course. This force just has a particularly high standard from their recruits.)


Actually this is incorrect. A high school diploma is the minimum requirement. I know that a degree may be required for city police but not for the RCMP. I'm sure it would increase your chances of being accepted though.

They really do sacrifice a lot. The part I think I would dislike about being an RCMP officer is the constant relocations. I know that many times they don't have much of a say as to where they'll be posted when they first start out.


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## MissTwisties (Mar 4, 2005)

Makes me so angry to read someone saying that this wouldn't have happened if drugs were legalized. Like someone said earlier, if you can't face the music....think before you act, and be responsible for your actions!!! Murdering 4 people for drugs??? Have mercy for the killer? NO WAY. Coward. 

Funny I had to stumble upon this thread, after reading THIS: 

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory?id=523021

I thought particularly interesting reading the passage towards the end...about mari having up to 12% more of that mind-altering substance than the mari going around during our parent's time...I surely talk to my kids about drugs. I'll keep doing it.

My condoleances to the families...including the coward's family.


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## Flatlander (Mar 4, 2005)

Deuce said:
			
		

> Actually this is incorrect. A high school diploma is the minimum requirement.


You are correct.  Here are the requirements.


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## Tgace (Mar 4, 2005)

*The Policeman's Prayer*​​​
Dear Lord, be with me on my beat​This day and every day.​Grant that each weary block I walk,​May ease a brothers way.​​​Let me be kindly to the old​
And to the young, be strong​But let me triumph over those​Whose acts are cruel and wrong.​​​And if according to your plan,​
I am to lose my life,​Please bless with your protecting hand​My children and my wife.​​


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## kenpo tiger (Mar 4, 2005)

Those are someone's children. 
....


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## Lisa (Jul 4, 2008)

Mayerthorpe Memorial Park

A memorial garden was opened today to honor the four slain mounties that died in 2005.

I love this quote:



> We cannot grieve forever. It's not the way people are designed. You have to reach a certain point with your grieving where you turn then to the beauty around you, the goodness around you, and that's what this is all about, Margaret Thibault, the society's founding president, told CBC News.


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## exile (Jul 4, 2008)

Lisa said:


> Mayerthorpe Memorial Park
> 
> A memorial garden was opened today to honor the four slain mounties that died in 2005.



As the great monument in St. Petersburg, commemorating the dead of the Siege of Leningrad says:

_Let no one forget!
Let nothing be forgetten!_

You can't grieve forever (although I suspect we do, at some level) but it is unthinkable that we should ever forget...


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## Gordon Nore (Jul 4, 2008)

Thanks for posting this, Lisa. I heard some of the story on the radio today. It looks like a great deal of thought went into this memorial park. I was quite moved by the description of the statues of the four constables:



> Myrol, is shown standing at ease, facing his hometown of Red Deer; Johnston faces north toward his hometown of Lac La Biche, Alta.; Gordon faces west toward his first detachment; and Schiemann, the most senior of the four, is shown at attention, saluting while facing east toward his hometown of Stony Plain, Alta...
> 
> Sculptors Don and Shirley Begg consulted closely with each constable's family, especially their mothers, to ensure the statues were as lifelike as possible.
> 
> ...


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## arnisador (Jul 4, 2008)

hat sounds like a nice tribute. I'm glad to hear it.


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## Kacey (Jul 4, 2008)

The Jews say, about the Holocaust, "Never to forgive, never to forget" - not because they do not forgive, but because a wrong, once forgiven, might be forgotten, and once forgotten, might be repeated.  This sounds like a similar situation... so I hope no one ever forgets, and therefore that it never happens again.


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## exile (Jul 4, 2008)

Kacey said:


> The Jews say, about the Holocaust, "Never to forgive, never to forget" - not because they do not forgive, but because a wrong, once forgiven, might be forgotten, and once forgotten, might be repeated.  This sounds like a similar situation... so I hope no one ever forgets, and therefore that it never happens again.



Yesmemory is crucial. It fixes the _reality_ of what happened. Otherwise, after horrifying experiences which happened to one generation, another generation, which had forgotten the realities of the past, might well be tempted to repeat the same fatal errors. On a much more local scale, people take for granted the lives of those in their communities who take great risks to ensure that the rest are protected. And they should _never _be taken for granted. Episodes like this make clear just how much we demand of our guardiansthat they will put themselves in harm's way to this extent. The least we can do is make sure that no one forgets them, when things go this horribly wrong.


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## Tames D (Jul 5, 2008)

I missed this thread when it came out in 2005. I just want to say I remember seeing this story on the news and it was a sad day for us here in the States as well.


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