# CQB-DCT Clip



## shesulsa (Oct 23, 2009)

Dale Seago posted this on Facebook - I found it interesting and since it's more geared towards empty-handed defense, I decided to put it here in General Self Defense.

I'm interested in hearing your thoughts on this and would like to pose a few questions to those more experienced than I here.

[yt]WeVTOh3m3IA[/yt]

As a woman defending against a knife-wielding attacker, some of these will not work against someone of a larger size - such as hyper-extending the elbow over your knee from a standing position (both people are standing).

I'm also wondering about crossing the arms in front when one hand contains an edged weapon.

Comments please?


----------



## KenpoTex (Oct 23, 2009)

It all works really well against zero pressure, an attack that's just left "hanging" out there, and no resistance at all.

I wonder how it'd work if the "attacker" was giving him this kind of pressure...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibGyGG3X4PI&feature=PlayList&p=1317DEFF4E5CB5A8


----------



## MJS (Oct 23, 2009)

I have to agree with KenpoTex.  Its interesting because yesterday, while I was teaching a Kenpo class, I brought this very subject up with the people that were there.  I started off by saying that we have a ton of techniques, and some people get so blind-sided by them, thinking that those are there only option.  When attacked, they have to do the tech. as written.  We then went into some spontaneous reaction drills.  We went quarter to half speed, with the 'attacker' throwing whatever they wanted.  After doing this for a while, I commented that I didn't see 1 textbook technique done.  Now, is this because they need more practice?  Perhaps, but I was part of the drill too, and after 20+ yrs. I didn't do a textbook tech either.  

This isn't to say that we don't know the techs., but I stressed that what was more important than anything, was to use the foundation that the techs. give us.  I may not have done 5 Swords when the roundhouse punch came in, but perhaps I used an idea from that tech.  That, IMHO, is more important.

From there, we picked 2 techniques.  Again, it was a toned down drill, as it has the potential to turn into a sparring exercise and thats not what I wanted to do at the time.  The defender began to perform the tech. as written, but somewhere during the defense, the badguy had to start to counter what the other person was doing.  

This too was also interesting, because only a move or 2 of the original tech was able to be completed before the tech had to be abandoned for something else.

So yes, much like what I did yesterday in class, the same applies to this clip.  Take note of the 2nd clip KT posted.  The badguy is moving way too fast for any textbook tech to be done.  In that type of attack, you better get the hell off line or work on some sort of control, because otherwise you're going to end up like a piece of swiss.


----------



## arnisador (Oct 23, 2009)

I liked the advice they gave verbally in the first half, but while I saw a lot of skill in the montage in the second half I didn't see as much of the higher-percentage defenses I might teach to non-experts. (E.g., make those knees to the thighs to break him down--don't target a moving man's elbows!) Of course...we're talking about a low-percentage situation to begin with.


----------



## Archangel M (Oct 23, 2009)

Typical. "Talk...little action...pause...talk some more...finish the technique..." demo stuff. It makes the instructor appear knowledgeable/skilled but he never has to deal with resistance or actually complete a lengthy technique in "one take".


----------



## celtic_crippler (Oct 23, 2009)

KenpoTex said:


> It all works really well against zero pressure, an attack that's just left "hanging" out there, and no resistance at all.
> 
> I wonder how it'd work if the "attacker" was giving him this kind of pressure...
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibGyGG3X4PI&feature=PlayList&p=1317DEFF4E5CB5A8


 
Great post Tex! This is a more realistic attack, demonstrating the "piston" action involved... who in the blue hell stabs once and leaves their arm out for you to grab and manipulate as you will? If they do...they weren't a threat in the first place. LOL



MJS said:


> I have to agree with KenpoTex. Its interesting because yesterday, while I was teaching a Kenpo class, I brought this very subject up with the people that were there. I started off by saying that we have a ton of techniques, and some people get so blind-sided by them, thinking that those are there only option. When attacked, they have to do the tech. as written. We then went into some spontaneous reaction drills. We went quarter to half speed, with the 'attacker' throwing whatever they wanted. After doing this for a while, I commented that I didn't see 1 textbook technique done. Now, is this because they need more practice? Perhaps, but I was part of the drill too, and after 20+ yrs. I didn't do a textbook tech either.
> 
> This isn't to say that we don't know the techs., but I stressed that what was more important than anything, was to use the foundation that the techs. give us. I may not have done 5 Swords when the roundhouse punch came in, but perhaps I used an idea from that tech. That, IMHO, is more important.
> 
> ...


 
Great drill. I've done similarly in the past with my students. The idea isn't to complete any technique A-Z, by the book. The idea is to be able to apply the principles taught through the techniques at a spontaneous level to eliminate any hesitation as a result of concious thought on how to deal with the attack. In reality, no two people will react the same way to the same attack... that's the real beauty behind _tailoring_ and why it's essential to understand the _equation formula_ and to practice _grafting_.

The bottom line with knife attacks VS empty hand defense is that you will get cut; period. Dan Inosanto has done extensive research and training with knives (as evidenced by his scarred up arms) and this is the position he holds; and I agree. 

So...a few thoughts...

Avoid it. Escape. Get away... those are the preferable options. LOL 

It's important to remember to utilize your environment. Whether it be positioning yourself so that there are obstacles between you and a knife-wielding attacker or finding something that you can use as a weapon, preferably something with a longer range than the knife; a stick, umbrella, broom, gas pump nozzle (private joke)....hell, throw your keys or purse at them! LOL ...sand in the eyes...etc, etc, etc...

Use the outside of your arms for defense, not the inside... you won't bleed as much when cut there as you will if cut on the inside of your forearms and/or wrists. If you start bleeding out quickly you'll find it's hard to defend yourself when unconcious. 

"It's a poor set of feet that lets a body get beat"-Chuck Sullivan. Move! Try to create distance, but remember...there's more directions to chose from than just back and forth. Think 3 dimensionally as you attempt to get off the line of attack. When avoiding try to create _angles of obscurity_, position yourself outside their direct line of sight...preferably to their rear.

If you are lucky enough catch and/or trap the attackers knife-wielding arm, then *destroy* it! I doubt kneeing the elbow would work in many cases and I think that's a bad idea anyway because you sacrifice your base by doing so. It's bad enough to be attacked with a knife but do you want to try and defend against it while on your back? Not good.... Train joint breaks and locks from the wrist up...you're not looking for a submission...you're looking to do serious damage...remember that. 

Most importantly, show them no mercy. They have a knife. As such, their intent is clear...so, no holds barred. Be nastier than nasty and meaner than mean...


----------



## Brian R. VanCise (Oct 23, 2009)

*The thing is when working technique you must slow it down*.  That is what everyone does whether it is FMA, JMA, CMA, MMA, Judo, Brazilian Jiujitsu, Boxing, Muay Thai, etc.  They were not demoing at full power, full resistance but instead showing technique.  Now look carefully at the technique and if it was full on and they pulled it off then something is getting broken or worse. (on some of the techniques)  When I show a Kimura, Omoplata or an armbar, etc. I slow everything way down and make sure that people get the details right in slow motion.  Now eventually during rolling they will try it out and there are safe guards ie. tapping so that the arm hopefully does not get broken, etc.  In some technique there are simply no safeguards.  Meaning if I rotate someones neck at the right angle while they supply weak resitance there is going to be some *serious* issues. (really serious)  Hence why people in general (there are always a few) do not rotate necks full force with resistance training.  It is also why neck cranks are so bloody dangerous during rolling. ie. took me about eleven years or so to recover from one and I still have a hitch in my neck every now and then.

For what they intended with their demoing of technique they had some good stuff and some okay stuff.  I actually liked where they shot it at videographer wise with the mountain in the back ground. 

As to the second clip well when someone comes in and pumps like that you better get off line and to the outside. (that is if you cannot run away or pull your firearm out step off line and shoot them)  The key would be to bait them into over commiting and maybe be able to capitalize on it and gain control.  *Still it is a formidable attack on every level and what is commonly taught to criminals by their criminal friends!* :erg: (so you better practice against it)


----------



## Archangel M (Oct 23, 2009)

Problem is..some people never "speed it up". 

To them Martial Arts means "stick your arm out and stand still while I do some neat techniques".


----------



## Brian R. VanCise (Oct 23, 2009)

Archangel M said:


> Problem is..some people never "speed it up".
> 
> To them Martial Arts means "stick your arm out and stand still while I do some neat techniques".



That is and would be a problem as we all need to pressure test our training at some point.


----------



## James Kovacich (Oct 23, 2009)

There are simpler approaches to defanginging the snake. The defenders blade avoidance seemed a bit lacking and I think he'd of been cut a few times by someone with the intent of cutting.


----------



## frank raud (Oct 24, 2009)

I found it curious that they seemed to advocate avoiding gross motor skills. I realize it was a demo, and slowed down for safety, but there was a lot of time where it seemed the blade was not controlled, and too close to the defender's body parts for my own comfort level. Would like to see it worked against resistance instead of leaving the arm out for wrapups, elbow destructions etc.


----------



## Deaf Smith (Oct 25, 2009)

KenpoTex said:


> It all works really well against zero pressure, an attack that's just left "hanging" out there, and no resistance at all.
> 
> I wonder how it'd work if the "attacker" was giving him this kind of pressure...
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibGyGG3X4PI&feature=PlayList&p=1317DEFF4E5CB5A8


 

I was thinking the same thing. I'm playing with the Krav Maga gang was well as TKD now, and those KM people... well it's a rough world where they don't just go limp on you when you do a technique.

Deaf


----------



## still learning (Oct 27, 2009)

KenpoTex said:


> It all works really well against zero pressure, an attack that's just left "hanging" out there, and no resistance at all.
> 
> I wonder how it'd work if the "attacker" was giving him this kind of pressure...
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibGyGG3X4PI&feature=PlayList&p=1317DEFF4E5CB5A8


 
Hello, Yes....!
"Well pointed out".. when attacker gives NO resistance at all!!

You can see lots of Kempo techniques...fast,smooth flowing...on a non-aggressvive ,or non-resistance attacker...

MMAs, etc...fighers with Kempo backgrounds...You will never see these Kempo moves (we know they have rules too) ....the opponent is skillfully moving out of the attackers zones...

Kempo techniques can "work" for those who are many times fighting unskill people who NO self-defenses..ON the streets will its fast,furious, and NO rules? ...one must tried for himself...to know this...?

Aloha, ....ever situtions can differ...Video clip was "fun" to watch...


----------

