# It's a BIG 10 Thing



## Rich Parsons (Nov 17, 2006)

First I would like to congratulate the Wisconsin Team for putting together a great season that in itself would be worth of the Conference title if it was done in a different year. 

Second I would like to wish both Michigan and Ohio State a safe and healthy game with no injuries. To me this game is the BCS.  The winner of this game in my mind is the champion. I know this might be going against the whole BCS point, but I personally do not think I will enjoy the other games as much. 


And to close, I would like to say the following:


> Hail! to the victors valiant
> Hail! to the conqu'ring heroes
> Hail! Hail! to Michigan
> the leaders and best
> ...


----------



## rutherford (Nov 17, 2006)

T'was the night before game time,
And all round the shoe,
Not a creature was sleeping,
They were screaming Beat Blue.

The banners were hung by the lamp posts with care
In hopes that St. Troy would find Ginn through the air.
Drunken and crazy and burning their beds,
While visions of kick off danced through their heads.

When all of the sudden there arose such a clatter,
I sprang from the keg to see what was the matter.
When there in the sky, in a Coupe Deville sleigh,
Was Woody Hayes decked out in scarlet and gray.

He looked on the crowd that was gathered around,
And said that he heard that a game was in town.
I came here to watch it, and wish you good luck.
Though it's not like you need it, cause Michigan Sucks!

GO BUCKEYES!!!!


----------



## exile (Nov 17, 2006)

Rich Parsons said:


> I would like to wish both Michigan and Ohio State a safe and healthy game with no injuries.



Rich---your civilized and sane wishes for the game are much appreciated! Here we are girding up for what could be, win or lose, a rough night---the police are towing cars away from all streets in a four-five block radius around campus (OSU is picking up the towing tab---this is a safety thing, not a punitive strike on illegal parkers!) because the pattern of postgame riots/violence around OSU in recent years shows that much of it starts with damaging cars and then goes on to other property, and the police and school admins figure that the absence of automobiles as targets will kind of damp down the tendency to start breaking things that seems to emerge here at the time of the game with Michigan.  Police presence is going to be very much in evidence, and apparently the Michigan authorities are sending a contingent of state troopers to Columbus just in case it turns out that fans need protection---I am not, repeat _not_, making this up. I guess you could say that a lot of people around here have a good deal of growing up to do.



Rich Parsons said:


> To me this game is the BCS.  The winner of this game in my mind is the champion. I know this might be going against the whole BCS point, but I personally do not think I will enjoy the other games as much.



You might be interested to know that one of the sports columnists for our daily, the  _Dispatch_, said exactly the same thing, giving some very cogent arguments for that position, and noted that if it turned out that Michigan defeated OSU, then so be it---that _should_ be the national championship right there.


----------



## Rich Parsons (Nov 17, 2006)

exile said:


> Rich---your civilized and sane wishes for the game are much appreciated! Here we are girding up for what could be, win or lose, a rough night---the police are towing cars away from all streets in a four-five block radius around campus (OSU is picking up the towing tab---this is a safety thing, not a punitive strike on illegal parkers!) because the pattern of postgame riots/violence around OSU in recent years shows that much of it starts with damaging cars and then goes on to other property, and the police and school admins figure that the absence of automobiles as targets will kind of damp down the tendency to start breaking things that seems to emerge here at the time of the game with Michigan. Police presence is going to be very much in evidence, and apparently the Michigan authorities are sending a contingent of state troopers to Columbus just in case it turns out that fans need protection---I am not, repeat _not_, making this up. I guess you could say that a lot of people around here have a good deal of growing up to do.


I agree that things can get out of hand and like I said hope it does not. 



exile said:


> You might be interested to know that one of the sports columnists for our daily, the _Dispatch_, said exactly the same thing, giving some very cogent arguments for that position, and noted that if it turned out that Michigan defeated OSU, then so be it---that _should_ be the national championship right there.


 
I read one article that said if Michigan looses by a last minute field goal that sport writer and others would like to see a rematch on neutral ground. The problem is that the BCS selection looks at who lost to whom and the sport writers many times want to see something different as well as the coaches would like to give some other team a chance to beat the undeafeated team. 

The system is not good, it in some ways is better than before, but as always it oculd be better. The problem is that it could make the season and the playoffs too long for those who are supposed to be in College to get an education. So what is good for the sport may not be best for the student. Which I understand. 

Good Luck.


----------



## exile (Nov 17, 2006)

Rich Parsons said:


> I agree that things can get out of hand and like I said hope it does not.



You've got plenty of company on that one, Rich.





Rich Parsons said:


> I read one article that said if Michigan looses by a last minute field goal that sport writer and others would like to see a rematch on neutral ground. The problem is that the BCS selection looks at who lost to whom and the sport writers many times want to see something different as well as the coaches would like to give some other team a chance to beat the undeafeated team.
> 
> The system is not good, it in some ways is better than before, but as always it oculd be better. The problem is that it could make the season and the playoffs too long for those who are supposed to be in College to get an education. So what is good for the sport may not be best for the student. Which I understand.



Yeah, at some point, you just have to say, well, that's the way it played out...



Rich Parsons said:


> Good Luck.



Thanks, and watch this space---I'll send an update once the dust has cleared to let you know how it went and Columbus is still here (or not, as the case may be! :wink1


----------



## OUMoose (Nov 17, 2006)

All I gotta say is...




GO BUCKS!!!


----------



## Rich Parsons (Nov 17, 2006)

The State of Ohio has decided to delay the counting and recounting of votes until after the big game. 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061117/ap_on_el_ho/ohio_election



> Ballot counting in the race, which was to start Saturday, had already been delayed to Sunday, in deference to the Ohio State-Michigan football game Saturday.


----------



## exile (Nov 17, 2006)

Rich Parsons said:


> The State of Ohio has decided to delay the counting and recounting of votes until after the big game.
> 
> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061117/ap_on_el_ho/ohio_election



Yes, and folks around here, even big fans, were just a bit baffled by this decision... it _does_ show you, though, the mindset of the place!


----------



## punisher73 (Nov 18, 2006)

This is the first time since the BCS has started that the 1 and 2 teams have faced each other in the regular season like this.  It does seem more like the championship game since both teams are 11-0 and the winner will be playing against a team that has 1 loss already whoever the winner of todays game plays.


----------



## bydand (Nov 18, 2006)

Seeing how I was born and raised in Michigan I just have to say,

*GO BUCKEYES!*  Now if you were playing Michigan State, it would be different; but I root for whoever is playing against UM.  I just hope the foolishness that has shown itself in the past, is just that, PAST.  

My prayer is that both teams play good ball and the players are all nothing more than a bit tired when it is over.  No injuries, or mishaps.


----------



## exile (Nov 18, 2006)

bydand said:


> Seeing how I was born and raised in Michigan I just have to say,
> 
> *GO BUCKEYES!*  Now if you were playing Michigan State, it would be different; but I root for whoever is playing against UM.  I just hope the foolishness that has shown itself in the past, is just that, PAST.
> 
> My prayer is that both teams play good ball and the players are all nothing more than a bit tired when it is over.  No injuries, or mishaps.



Amen, bro'!


----------



## Rich Parsons (Nov 18, 2006)

bydand said:


> Seeing how I was born and raised in Michigan I just have to say,
> 
> *GO BUCKEYES!* Now if you were playing Michigan State, it would be different; but I root for whoever is playing against UM. I just hope the foolishness that has shown itself in the past, is just that, PAST.
> 
> My prayer is that both teams play good ball and the players are all nothing more than a bit tired when it is over. No injuries, or mishaps.




I understand the U of M versus MSU as well. 

My kindergarten year at age four, when the two played as my parents are from the east coast had no understanding of this so I wore regular clothes versus my favorite college colors. 

The U of M fans told me I could route for U of M or MSU.

The MSU fans told me if I did not route for MSU they would kick my butt. So I dropped my bag and said ok I route for U of M. I got my butt kicked by a 5th grader and his brother who was a 3rd grader, but to me it was nothing but trying to stick it to people who were insisting on my choices. 

Later I went to U of M  and one can say I am a fan, and an Alumnus, even if I do not have season tickets.


----------



## Rich Parsons (Nov 18, 2006)

Another Article: http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaaf/preview?gid=200611180033


----------



## bydand (Nov 18, 2006)

Rich Parsons said:


> Later I went to U of M  and one can say I am a fan, and an Alumnus, even if I do not have season tickets.




Just when I was beginning to think you were a good guy.   

Actually My wife attended UM for a short time while we were back in Michigan.  Growing up on the sunset side of the State, most of my friends went to MSU I just gravitated to rooting for State.  I used to joke that whit me and the wife, it just went to show you that a mixed marriage can work.  I had my MSU grill cover and she had her UM license plate bracket.  My old college roomie was a lifelong MSU fan and then moved to Ann Arbor and worked and went to UM for classes, so he converted religions from the farmers to the blue and maize.


----------



## exile (Nov 19, 2006)

So by now you all know that OSU won the game; the important news is that there were only relatively minor incidents, nothing to make Columbus fans look like drunken thugs as per a couple of years ago. No major injuries on the field, and apparently little in the way of nastiness surrounding the event. That's a way better outcome than in we've had for many years. Police were out in force, and they and OSU had made it clear that there would be a zero-tolerance policy towards yob behavior before, at or after the game. Apparently it worked well...


----------



## Rich Parsons (Nov 19, 2006)

exile said:


> So by now you all know that OSU won the game; the important news is that there were only relatively minor incidents, nothing to make Columbus fans look like drunken thugs as per a couple of years ago. No major injuries on the field, and apparently little in the way of nastiness surrounding the event. That's a way better outcome than in we've had for many years. Police were out in force, and they and OSU had made it clear that there would be a zero-tolerance policy towards yob behavior before, at or after the game. Apparently it worked well...




I am glad to hear that the precautions were helpful and that it was kept to minor events. 

Thanks


----------



## Rich Parsons (Nov 19, 2006)

Here is a post game Article: http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaaf/recap?gid=200611180033&prov=ap


My comments on the Game. 

Ohio State Won. 

Both Teams showed up to play. One exception I could say is that the Michigan Defense seemed to be not playing in the second quarter, but a team has to play all quarters on both offensive and defense, no excuses. 

There was a call of incomplete on the Ohio team per video replay, and in the fourth quarter I thought there should have been another video replay when Michigan made a catch as well. The angle I saw it looked clean, but as in the other one, multiple angles should have been reviewed to make sure. 


The best play of the game was made by the Ohio State Offensive with their play action pass. The whole line moved like a run play, including the back who jumped the line. Then the Quarterback just brings the ball up and throws it for a completion. I said to myself "sweet". 

Good Luck to Ohio State in the BCS championship game, unless of course they decide to put Michigan back in, and in that case Good luck to both.


----------



## Rich Parsons (Nov 19, 2006)

Michigan still Number two by slim margin.

http://www.yahoo.com/s/441378

Here is the BCS rankings and articles:

http://www.bcsfootball.org/cfb/story/6188418


----------



## exile (Nov 19, 2006)

Rich Parsons said:


> Michigan still Number two by slim margin.
> 
> http://www.yahoo.com/s/441378
> 
> ...



Touch and go, touch and go... someday, maybe, they'll get the bugs out of the BCS system... maybe no more than a century or two down the line...


----------



## crushing (Nov 19, 2006)

exile said:


> Touch and go, touch and go... someday, maybe, they'll get the bugs out of the BCS system... maybe no more than a century or two down the line...


 
What bugs do you still see in the system?


----------



## exile (Nov 19, 2006)

crushing said:


> What bugs do you still see in the system?



Well, just take the one they have _now_---they've had the undefeated number 1 and 2 teams in the country play each other _already_. And if Michigan hangs in at 2, where they are now, what they will have is a completely artificial rematch of two teams who've already played one of the great classic games in college football history against each other. If we absolutely have to have a `national champion', I'd far rather see an elimination playoff system of some kind in place so that this kind of strange deja vu situation doesn't recur. But there's no way the big football schools will go along with that idea, so...


----------



## crushing (Nov 19, 2006)

I don't think it would be an artificial rematch.  Team play the schedule they have, and if they do well they go to a bowl game.  The top teams play in the BCS bowls.  #1 and #2 gets matched up.  I don't think it would have been fair to OSU or UM to automatically eliminate the loser of that game from the possibility of playing for the BCS NC because it would be a rematch.

I don't think Michigan will end up #2, Fat Fulmer still upset about Woodson getting the Heisman over Manning will put Michigan at number 4 in the coaches poll again like he did to the undefeated Michigan team in '97.

Anyway, one of the biggest bugs I see is the fact that they start ranking the teams in the preseason before they even play.  I don't think they should start ranking them until 3 or so weeks in.  But, they rankings do help the networks create some hype in the matchups.  Another problem is that a loss late in the season hurts a lot more than a loss early in the season when teams are allowed to make up for it.  I was suprised to see Michigan still at #2 after losing the last game of the season.

It has been a very interesting season in the polls and as the teams position for the BCS.  A Rutgers win would have made it even more interesting.


----------



## exile (Nov 19, 2006)

crushing said:


> I don't think it would be an artificial rematch.  Team play the schedule they have, and if they do well they go to a bowl game.  The top teams play in the BCS bowls.  #1 and #2 gets matched up.  I don't think it would have been fair to OSU or UM to automatically eliminate the loser of that game from the possibility of playing for the BCS NC because it would be a rematch.



You really don't think it will be a major anticlimax? I confess, my attitudes may be contaminated by the emotional exhaustion of watching my fellow Columbusites go through _one_ horrible bout of pins-and-needles fretting (I don't get so wired about it, I could have gone on living happily if UM had won, but... well, you probably have some idea what people are like around here); if they have to play UM again, I can't see any outcomes that will make either set of fans happy. If UM wins, it kind of muddies the `great-classic-rivalry' game outcome; if they lose, it's a double kick in the teeth for them and for OSU, a kind of hollow victory---kind of like digging up and then reburying someone who was quite satisfactorily dead and buried the _first_ time. But I admit, living in Columbus tends to cloud one's mind on this particular topic...



crushing said:


> I don't think Michigan will end up #2, Fat Fulmer still upset about Woodson getting the Heisman over Manning will put Michigan at number 4 in the coaches poll again like he did to the undefeated Michigan team in '97.



And the Spartans seem to be on a genuine roll at the moment. It must be rough in Ann Arbor now---they actually don't know for sure if they'll even get the Rose Bowl invite, right? It's, what, kind of discretionary with the RB ownership? But the situation you mention is yet another problem---the coaches' poll is a whole network of old resentments and scores to settle and whatnot, at least to hear the various stories that the sportswriters love to tell. 



crushing said:


> Anyway, one of the biggest bugs I see is the fact that they start ranking the teams in the preseason before they even play.  I don't think they should start ranking them until 3 or so weeks in.  But, they rankings do help the networks create some hype in the matchups.  Another problem is that a loss late in the season hurts a lot more than a loss early in the season when teams are allowed to make up for it.  I was suprised to see Michigan still at #2 after losing the last game of the season.



Well, but that may turn out to be really temporary. I guess it was the closeness of the game that did it. Apparently, it wasn't a _total_ loss, at least in terms of the total calculation---they came in close enough to keep that ultra-thin lead, though like you I'd be surprised if they kept it, but for me the main thing there was the feeling that USC has the hex on them. Again, though, maybe I've just been absorbing attitude from people around here who want UM to stay nicely dead and buried at this point. 

It's true, though, abouit the preseason---what do they base it all on? Just the recruitment profiles? I mean, even if a team has kept most of its players from last year, that's not going to be true in general, and how do you know how to do the comparisons? It seems like there are a lot of acts of faith you'd have to commit yourself to for those rankings to have much credibility foryou... still, they got OSU right...



crushing said:


> It has been a very interesting season in the polls and as the teams position for the BCS.  A Rutgers win would have made it even more interesting.



All around, one of the liveliest seasons in the college football world that I can remember. But from where I sit, the best thing about it was that no one tried very hard to set the University District on fire this year... :wink1:


----------



## Goldendawn8 (Nov 19, 2006)

Are you serious? How can they not have preseason ranks? Do you think all the teams should just start over and that winning the National tile game should hold no weight. That's one of the problems at the moment. The loser of the Big Ten game should be knocked out of the running for the title since you have to take into consideration the competitiveness of their conference. That was really their only big game for the both of them. There is no way Michigan could have done as well if they switched spots wither either Florida or Arkansas. Their conference isn't even as tough as the Big 12 or the ACC. 
They simply need to have playoffs in the BCS and the NFL needs to have the same overtime as the NCAA. Perhaps that's like asking for our government to stop wasting innocent lives in Iraq. I'll just have to wait and pray for both.


----------



## Rich Parsons (Nov 19, 2006)

Goldendawn8 said:


> Are you serious? How can they not have preseason ranks? Do you think all the teams should just start over and that winning the National tile game should hold no weight. That's one of the problems at the moment. The loser of the Big Ten game should be knocked out of the running for the title since you have to take into consideration the competitiveness of their conference. That was really their only big game for the both of them. There is no way Michigan could have done as well if they switched spots wither either Florida or Arkansas. Their conference isn't even as tough as the Big 12 or the ACC.
> They simply need to have playoffs in the BCS and the NFL needs to have the same overtime as the NCAA. Perhaps that's like asking for our government to stop wasting innocent lives in Iraq. I'll just have to wait and pray for both.



The same thing was said about other conferences and the Big Ten. I think a playoff would settle the issues, but, would add more to the students. 

I wonder if Penn State that was almost always ranked, thinks that the easy play in the Big Ten (11) has them not winning all the time. Do not get me wrong I think the ACC and Big 12 have good teams,  as well as Penn State is a good college and has a good program. 

The playoff issue would settle more of the conference complaints about other conferences. 

The coaches poll is a problem, In '97 if I remember correctly, one person had to leave Michigan out the ranking to end up with the points. Or a lot of coaches had to rank Michigan 4 or lower such as in the teens. 

So the BCS could be better even without a coaches a playoff, if they could get rid of the coaches poll or weighted votes from one versus another a certain way based upon conferecne loyalty and or rivalry.


----------



## crushing (Nov 20, 2006)

Hi Goldendawn8,

Yes, I'm serious.  The best team in the Big 12 is Texas at 9-2.  One of the losses was Ohio State laying the smackdown on Texas in Texas.  The best team in the ACC is probably GA Tech as they beat VA Tech.  GA Tech lost to Notre Dame whom Michigan whipped at Southbend.

It sounds like if USC can win out, that they may be the team that can replace Michigan at #2.  Not only that, but because of their SOS, they may even pass Ohio State even though USC has a loss.

Rich,

It was Vols' Coach Fulmer that voted the undefeated 1997 Michigan team as #4 to cost Michigan the #1 ranking in the coaches poll.  He was upset that Charles Woodson beat out Peyton Manning for the Heisman trophy


----------



## g-bells (Nov 20, 2006)

the big ten gets no respect!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i'm a buckeye fan and i believe michigan is the no. 2 ranked team in the country. all these writers jump on the usc band wagon. the pac 10 is nothing like the big ten.and they believe that teams in the acc and sec are superior to teams in the big ten.it use to be that miami,fsu, or florida were always given their second shots now its usc. give the big ten its credit for once. put any of the previously mentioned teams in the big ten  for 5-10 years and see how they would fair . thank you for listening


----------



## Rich Parsons (Nov 20, 2006)

g-bells said:


> the big ten gets no respect!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i'm a buckeye fan and i believe michigan is the no. 2 ranked team in the country. all these writers jump on the usc band wagon. the pac 10 is nothing like the big ten.and they believe that teams in the acc and sec are superior to teams in the big ten.it use to be that miami,fsu, or florida were always given their second shots now its usc. give the big ten its credit for once. put any of the previously mentioned teams in the big ten for 5-10 years and see how they would fair . thank you for listening


 

A co-worker of mine and from OSU said this is what he would like to see.

OSU to play USC to show that their just not the best this year.
To have Michigan play another from one of the other conferences to show the same. With Wisconsin picking up a win also would show the other conferences that this year there are teams other than them to be considered. 

Personally I would like to see the rematch. As if Michigan wins it would have them split which would in my opinion show an error in the BCS system. And because of this possibility I believe that the coaches poll and sports writers will rank Michigan lower to something similiar to the OSU co-worker of mine.


----------



## crushing (Dec 2, 2006)

Wow!  Shake-up in the BCS National Championship hunt today as UCLA upsets USC.

It sounds like the #2 spot will be between Michigan, who's only loss was by only 3 points to the #1 team, undefeated Ohio State; and Florida, who's one loss was by 10 points to the #11 - two loss Auburn.


----------



## Rich Parsons (Dec 3, 2006)

crushing said:


> Wow!  Shake-up in the BCS National Championship hunt today as UCLA upsets USC.
> 
> It sounds like the #2 spot will be between Michigan, who's only loss was by only 3 points to the #1 team, undefeated Ohio State; and Florida, who's one loss was by 10 points to the #11 - two loss Auburn.




Last night ESPN was polling people online for Florida or Michigan. It went back and forth from 55% Michigan  to 45% Florida;  to 53% Michigan to 47% Florida with a +/-  2% error so it is real close from these numbers on what people want to see. 

What I found interesting is that the SEC and near SEC states was Florida (13 States) and the 33 states were for Michigan with 4 undecided with not enough votes in one direction. 

It will still come down to the Harris poll and the Coaches. If the Harris poll is similiar to the ESPN poll then it now lies in the hands of the Coaches, which now leaves it up to people wanting to see multiple conferences in the playoff and school rivalries and old political issues arise.


----------



## Brian R. VanCise (Dec 3, 2006)

I think in the end it will be two conferance championships playing for the mythical national title.  What a joke the BCS has become. (it always was)
If a playoff were held then probably eight teams would have a chance at winning it. (out of the top 16)  Nobody would want to face LSU that is for sure.  Unfortuantely for Michigan when the dust settles they did not win their conferance and that will probably mean that Florida passes them based on their strength of schedule.  This is just a ridiculous way to determine the national *mythical* champion!


----------



## exile (Dec 3, 2006)

Brian R. VanCise said:


> I Unfortuantely for Michigan when the dust settles they did not win their conferance and that will probably mean that Florida passes them based on their strength of schedule.  This is just a ridiculous way to determine the national *mythical* champion!



Well, you nailed it, Brian! 

Every year it's something else with BCS, eh?


----------



## Rich Parsons (Dec 4, 2006)

Well Florida got their lobby and they are number 2 and playing Ohio State.


----------



## g-bells (Dec 4, 2006)

florida has no right being ranked 2. before usc lost all the writers and etc were pointing out all the things that kept florida out of the 2 spot. i think southern schools along with usc and texas are favoured. i'm a buckeyes fan so my team is in but if we would have lost a game in mid-season our chances would have none to get back into the title hunt but theses other schools <usc,florida,texas, lose then roll of 2-3 wins and bang their right back into the hunt can anybody explain why? put all these pretenders in the big ten year in and year out and see how they would fair.


----------

