# Ho kuk mu sul? Hapkido.



## Maint (Feb 5, 2014)

Hi I'm new to the forums. First let me say my martial arts experience is 1.5 years with an intermediate rank belt in Chun Kuk Do. If you are not familiar with CKD, it is Chuck Norris style of karate. I quit about a year ago due to some health reasons and also due to it becoming kind of a McDojo environment. Well I miss training so I was checking into another school in my area that has classes 3 nights a week for 2 hour periods vs the 45 min classes 2 x a week I was getting with CKD. Anyway I did some checking out of the school which is nothing compared to my previous dojo. It's just a little out of the way place and the grandmaster is in his 50s and has numerous academic as well as martial arts degrees. I know tthat there's a lot of people calling themselves grandmasters running around but after talking with a student online and calling the school I'm interested in the art. And the instructor seems genuine. I know what hapkido is but he teaches ho kuk mu sul with hapkido which he told me meant all nation martial art in korean or something like that. Has anyone here ever heard of ho kuk mu sul. Aside from some YouTube videos I can't find much about it. I'm going to visit the dojang soon and hope it's right for me.


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## Instructor (Feb 6, 2014)

I haven't heard of that one.. Does the instructor have a website?  Keep us posted!


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## Maint (Feb 6, 2014)

Yes, it is wongmookwan.com. It is the Wong Moo Kwan Korean martial arts academy. Grandmaster Roy King. He is seen in some YouTube videos with Sang Un Jin the founder of HKMS. I think the style of Hapkido, based upon a sticker I saw in the dojang window (it was closed) is Song Moo Hapkido. For some reason the link won't go directly to the site so type if in your browser if it doesn't work.


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## Instructor (Feb 6, 2014)

For some reason your link didn't work.  I googled it and found this:  http://www.wongmookwan.com/

Looks the same but works, wierd.


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## Instructor (Feb 6, 2014)

His site is very heavy on resume and light on actual martial arts content. Just an observation, not sure if it means anything.


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## Instructor (Feb 6, 2014)

At the end of the day it's best to just head over there and try a class and see what you think I suppose.  I try not to judge a man by his website.  You have enough prior training to know if you are liking what he's doing or not at this point I think.  Trust your instincts.


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## Maint (Feb 6, 2014)

This is the website for my previous dojo, which was located in the mall http://www.beckleyfamilymartialarts.com I know it's a big difference between the sites. GM King and my previous instructor are part of umata which is united martial arts tournament alliance. Something they brought together to connect the two Virginias and Ky. I've heard lots of good things about GM King and when I talked to him on the phone, I told him I didn't want to be passed because I paid a fee. This was something I felt was going on at my old dojo. I'm not bad mouthing my previous instructor, I just feel as if I was buying a belt. GM King assured me, as well as the student I talked to anonymously online, that if you're not ready you don't pass. So hopefully that is the case. I'm very wary and don't want to earn a belt I don't feel like I got by going through the motions and paying a fee. Is this the norm for all dojos?


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## oftheherd1 (Feb 7, 2014)

I've never heard of it either, but that doesn't mean much.  I don't, and never did try to keep up with all MA.  I noted that even the teacher didn't claim it as a style or art per se either, although he seems to be saying it is related to Hapkido.  That may be marketing.  But that doesn't mean anything either.  I looked at the article on his induction into the Martial Arts Hall of Fame; he has an incredible resume.  Achieving Grand Master status 6 different MA along with 3 doctorates, is an incredible feat.  I wonder how he did it.

But, as others said, try it out and see if you like it and are being taught well.  If it really is an amalgamation of Hapkido and/or Kook Sul Won styles, and is seriously taught, you may well be happy with it.  Some of what I question may simply be marketing hype, and he could still be a great teacher.


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## Tony Dismukes (Feb 7, 2014)

Instructor said:


> For some reason your link didn't work.  I googled it and found this:  http://www.wongmookwan.com/
> 
> Looks the same but works, wierd.



The original post by Maint had the url misspelled, even though the text for the link was correct.

After looking around the site, I'm a bit unimpressed.  

The instructor has a page displaying the trophies he has supposedly won at a number of (literally in some cases) no-name competitions, but fails to specify what sort of event he was competing in.  Forms? Point-sparring?  



			
				Mr King's website said:
			
		

> He holds Grandmaster rank in two Korean, two Chinese, and two Japanese martial arts Chiefmaster rank in one Korean, two Chinese, and two Japanese systems
> Master rank in one Korean and Japanese styles
> Instructor rank in two more Korean and two more Chinese martial arts.



So - he claims to hold instructor rank or higher in a total of 17 arts but doesn't name even one of them.  He also doesn't name any of his instructors or any actual belt ranks.  BTW - I know that "Master" and "Grandmaster" are actual official ranks in the Korean arts, but not in any Japanese system I'm familiar with.  I've never heard of "Chiefmaster" rank in any art.  He may have legitimate rank in some art or another, but it's safe to say that his claimed martial arts credentials are bogus.

The recognitions by the USA Martial Arts Hall of Fame and similar organizations basically means that his check cleared.



			
				Mr King's website said:
			
		

> Grandmaster King has academic degrees in physical therapy, nursing, psychology, natural health, and medicine, as well as Doctorates in Asian Philosophy, Martial Arts Philosophy, and Martial Arts Science.



This is pretty much like his claimed martial arts credentials.  Undergraduate degrees in 5 different fields and doctorates in 3 more unrelated fields.  Really? He's not even attempting to be believable.  No mention of the institutions that supposedly granted any of these degrees.  I'm not sure what sort of accredited university would even grant doctorates in "Martial Arts Philosophy" and "Martial Arts Science."  Also, "Medicine" is not normally an undergraduate degree in the U.S..  He may very well have diplomas for all the degrees listed, but I'm willing to bet they're issued by the sort of unaccredited diploma mill which requires only the receipt of a check.

For all I know, Mr. King might be a talented martial artist and instructor.  You can judge for yourself if you go to visit the school.  Just be aware that for some reason he feels the need to hide his actual qualifications and invent ridiculous credentials.  That should be a bit of a red flag.


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## Tony Dismukes (Feb 7, 2014)

After typing all that, it occurred to me that it may be a violation of MartialTalk's policy against fraudbusting.  If so, I can withdraw my statement that his credentials are bogus and replace it with a statement that I'm curious about the details behind these amazing claimed credentials.


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## Daniel Sullivan (Feb 20, 2014)

No comment on the site, but I actually knew a man who held the rank of Chief Master.  Decent gent and only in one art.  It was not an art rank, but a dojang rank.  He was the "Chief" master, kind of like headmaster.  And his art was a TKD/Hapkido blend, though his organization was a TKD org.  I don't remember the org, though.


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## Instructor (Feb 20, 2014)

Did you ever visit the school Maint?  If so, what was your impression?


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## cqbspartan (Oct 10, 2014)

I think you are referring to Kuk Sool...if you want the best Korean martial arts info contact Dr. Kim's school in Baton Rouge, La. ~~he has written many thick books on Korean martial arts from his research back to his homeland with many old masters there...he is the best authority on Korean martial arts in the US, and maybe on the planet...


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## Instructor (Oct 10, 2014)

You might also want to vist my friends Ken and Kristine Ducote at Black Dragon:  BlackDragon

I've known them for years and they are first rate instructors.


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## Leannesidhe (Sep 16, 2015)

I do HKMS in santa cruz, where master jin lives.  There's three schools (4 if you count my schools second location) here, master jin's and two of his studens'.  It is wonderful. I love the community at my school. My school has incorporated Krav Maga into part of our training for adults, so we do a bit more self defense and  no hand techniques.  I'm getting my blue belt on thursday (well testing for it, but they won't let you test unless they know you'll pass.)  Very legit martial arts style.


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## Maint (Sep 23, 2015)

Leannesidhe said:


> I do HKMS in santa cruz, where master jin lives.  There's three schools (4 if you count my schools second location) here, master jin's and two of his studens'.  It is wonderful. I love the community at my school. My school has incorporated Krav Maga into part of our training for adults, so we do a bit more self defense and  no hand techniques.  I'm getting my blue belt on thursday (well testing for it, but they won't let you test unless they know you'll pass.)  Very legit martial arts style.


Hi! It's been quite awhile since I checked this site and saw you had responded just a few days ago! It may be a sign as I never went to check out the dojang, but now have the opportunity to do so since my work schedule has changed. What exactly is Hkms? How do you like it? What would you compare it to? Is it more like karate? Tkd? What?


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## oftheherd1 (Sep 24, 2015)

Maint said:


> Hi! It's been quite awhile since I checked this site and saw you had responded just a few days ago! It may be a sign as I never went to check out the dojang, but now have the opportunity to do so since my work schedule has changed. What exactly is Hkms? How do you like it? What would you compare it to? Is it more like karate? Tkd? What?


 
I, and I think others here, would be curious to know what your impressions are after you have visited.


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## MAWAY56 (Jan 27, 2016)

*Hi. I was accually a student of Master Jin's at HKMS in Santa Cruz, Ca. I would strongly recommend that school
which is also called Korean Martial Arts Academy. I would especially recommend it for kids. They have excellent instructors who help train the children and those kids are the most focused, disciplined and talented students between the ages of 4&18 that I've ever known in the korean art. They have so much fun, confidence and spirit in these classes and with dedication, they become amazingly skilled at the art and are well equipped to defend themselves. They also do better in athletics and better in school as a result of their training and the dicipline they aquire. It's a great way of life for people of all ages. Master Jin is an excellent instructor and he as well as his black belt students are wonderful with the children. Master Jin was a 9th degree black belt at the time I was training there. I strongly recommend checking it out. Go watch a class, or even better watch a class during "TESTING". It's just amazing to see what is possible when you are dedicated and train hard.*


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## lklawson (Jan 27, 2016)

MAWAY56 said:


> *Hi. I was accually a student of Master Jin's at HKMS in Santa Cruz, Ca. I would strongly recommend that school
> which is also called Korean Martial Arts Academy. I would especially recommend it for kids. They have excellent instructors who help train the children and those kids are the most focused, disciplined and talented students between the ages of 4&18 that I've ever known in the korean art. They have so much fun, confidence and spirit in these classes and with dedication, they become amazingly skilled at the art and are well equipped to defend themselves. They also do better in athletics and better in school as a result of their training and the dicipline they aquire. It's a great way of life for people of all ages. Master Jin is an excellent instructor and he as well as his black belt students are wonderful with the children. Master Jin was a 9th degree black belt at the time I was training there. I strongly recommend checking it out. Go watch a class, or even better watch a class during "TESTING". It's just amazing to see what is possible when you are dedicated and train hard.*


You're a little bit late to the party.  Well, actually a LOT late.  The original post was dated Feb 5, 2014.  The last reply prior to your post was 
Sep 24, 2015.  So you're roughly 9 days short of being 2 years behind on this.  

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## Jlbradley (Oct 18, 2016)

I know I'm late to this, but just found it. I took Kuk Sool Won from GM King when I was in the USAF. He was indeed a medical Dr then, as well as an accomplished martial artist. I know him to be honest and straightforward. If he has it listed, I would believe it.


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## Everette Graham (Mar 3, 2021)

Tony Dismukes said:


> After typing all that, it occurred to me that it may be a violation of MartialTalk's policy against fraudbusting.  If so, I can withdraw my statement that his credentials are bogus and replace it with a statement that I'm curious about the details behind these amazing claimed credentials.


 I understand that I'm almost 7 years late on this topic, but I can indeed confirm that Grandmaster King is a Grandmaster. I took classes under a close friend of his, and I've also trained with Grandmaster King. He was there when I attended my first-degree black belt test. Unfortunately, due to COVID-19 this close friend of his, Master Eddie Brousseau had to shut down his dojang because he was not making enough money. I can't answer about the 17 styles, but I can confirm he is a Grandmaster. I hope this clears some things up about the situation.


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