# gun safty class



## AnimEdge (May 12, 2005)

heres something in the news:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050512/ap_on_fe_st/gun_fired
"A gunshot was fired into the floor in an Anderson County middle school after a student accidentally pulled the trigger of a deputy's holstered gun."


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## shesulsa (May 12, 2005)

I would question a few things about the whole scenario and those answers aren't in the article - did he have a partner with him?  Why was his side arm loaded when surrounded by children? I can see his backup being loaded, but ... can some LEO's talk about this?


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## Tgace (May 13, 2005)

He was probably there in his duty gear and the kid asked a question. Somehow he lets the kid give a tug on the grip to show that the holster has retention and Bang! Bad decision...best thing is nobody got hurt.


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## dubljay (May 13, 2005)

If I remeber correctly back in elementry school when we had DARE, our DARE officer was in "duty clothes" wheather that ment a loaded side arm or not, I am not sure, but he did have it.  

 It is good that no one got hurt, I would be curious to the exact circumstances of the incident.  I have a hard time believing that an officer would allow anyone to attemt to disarm him while the gun was loaded and another officer present.


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## Tgace (May 13, 2005)

We dont carry unloaded guns. If were out in public with a duty belt on..its loaded.

Im thinking it was a "no it wont come out kid..go ahead give it a tug.." type of thing. Dumb move, but I dont think it was a full disarm attempt.


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## dubljay (May 13, 2005)

I personally think if the officer is fully uniformed and carying a firearm... it had better be loaded.  I didn't mean to imply that the officer was letting the kid disarm him, and if he allowed the kid to "tug" on the gun... wow... serious lapse of judgement in my opinion.  I bet it rattled the officer as much as it did the rest of the people in the room.  I am willing to bet he has learned his lesson in firearm safety.


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## Aegis (May 13, 2005)

Why wasn't the safety catch on? And in any case, you'd have through that around a class full of kids you'd unload the gun just to avoid such an incident. After all, it's not like you're suddenly going to need to drop an armed felon in the middle of a school...


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## rutherford (May 13, 2005)

Because there's never anybody armed in the school, or a bank next door . . .


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## dubljay (May 13, 2005)

Aegis said:
			
		

> Why wasn't the safety catch on? And in any case, you'd have through that around a class full of kids you'd unload the gun just to avoid such an incident. After all, it's not like you're suddenly going to need to drop an armed felon in the middle of a school...


  A safety is a mechanical device, and mechanical devices _do  _fail, and that is one possible reason the gun fired. Another possibility that the safety was disengaged while the kid was tugging on the gun. As for unloading his gun.... rutherfurd makes a valid point.  The officer was on duty... suppose he gets a call, he would have to take the extra time to reload his weapon, possibly putting others at risk...  who knows


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## Tgace (May 13, 2005)

If it was a Glock there was no "safety catch".


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## dubljay (May 13, 2005)

No safety huh?  those are accepted as service pistols?  wow, or do glocks have the handle saftey (the button on the back of the grip)?


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## Tgace (May 13, 2005)

The Glock can only be fired by pulling the trigger. No switches, levers or buttons besides a mag release and a slide catch. Trust me I have 2 of them...


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## dubljay (May 13, 2005)

Hmm interesting to know that about glocks.... I really should spend more time reading in the Armory.  

 Back to the story... what sort of disciplinary actions would you expect if something like this were to happen in your department?


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## Rich Parsons (May 13, 2005)

Hmm, this rings a bell, is this an older story, I seem to remember this story being discussed here before.

Oh well.


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## Tgace (May 13, 2005)

Rich Parsons said:
			
		

> Hmm, this rings a bell, is this an older story, I seem to remember this story being discussed here before.
> 
> Oh well.


I think you are remembering the DEA agent that shot himself in the leg....


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## RBaddorf (May 13, 2005)

It is more dangerous to manipulate the weapon (unload/reload) than to just leave the weapon in the holster.  An officer if armed, is armed with a loaded weapon, to be otherwise is inviting disaster.


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## Cruentus (May 14, 2005)

dubljay said:
			
		

> Hmm interesting to know that about glocks.... I really should spend more time reading in the Armory.
> 
> Back to the story... what sort of disciplinary actions would you expect if something like this were to happen in your department?



Sigs are the same way, as are many modern Auto's now a days.

Definatily ask questions in the armoury if you have them. I personally don't believe that external safeties make the gun "safer," and I prefer no external safeties...but that is just my opinion.

Paul


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## Tgace (May 14, 2005)

dubljay said:
			
		

> Hmm interesting to know that about glocks.... I really should spend more time reading in the Armory.
> 
> Back to the story... what sort of disciplinary actions would you expect if something like this were to happen in your department?


Disciplinary actions? I would guess anything from a letter in his file to some time off (with or w/o pay)......


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## dubljay (May 14, 2005)

Glad to know it shouldn't be anything too harsh, like I said before I bet it rattled him just as much as it did everyone else.  I just hope that none of the parents of the kids in the class try to sue the officer.


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## Tgace (May 14, 2005)

Not to say termination isnt impossible, depends on the political pressure, the officers history of trouble, etc.


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## digitalronin (May 14, 2005)

Tgace said:
			
		

> Not to say termination isnt impossible, depends on the political pressure, the officers history of trouble, etc.


 Yep, even with good standing an officer faces termination if the political heat is on.  An incident happened in my town where a deputy, swat team member, went into a local shop to get his rifle bag embroidered.  The rifle accidently went off injuring the store owner causing intenal injuries.  The deputy was eventually fired.  The last I heard he was suing to get his job back.


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## rmcrobertson (May 23, 2005)

Uh...and he was in a store with a loaded rifle, safety off, for what reason? 

That ain't politics; it's stupidity on somebody's part, a violation of basic safety rules.


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## Tgace (May 23, 2005)

Good question...however everybody makes mistakes, not everybody looses their jobs because of them. Sometimes LEO's face different pressures depending on the local politics. Not everybody can face the possibility of either getting terminated or suspended due to a domestic incident at home or a DWI.....many people arent even mandated to tell their empolyeers of such incidents.

An accidental discharge where a bystander gets hurt though? Thats  going to be nothing but bad.....


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## digitalronin (May 24, 2005)

rmcrobertson said:
			
		

> Uh...and he was in a store with a loaded rifle, safety off, for what reason?
> 
> That ain't politics; it's stupidity on somebody's part, a violation of basic safety rules.


 He wanted to put his initials on the gun bag.
 you are definately right since he had the training to know better and did not exercise the common sense to leave the rifle at home and simply take the bag in for monograming.


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