# Rules for Stick Fighting



## sifu Adams (Oct 26, 2005)

In a effort to make our stick fighting event better I would like to ask the modern arnis guys and girls what rules should be used?

Let me start.  during the Ohio State tournament we used two sets of rules the first set allowed 3-points for the head, 2-for the body, and 1-for leg or arm.  While at first a bit confusing, we had three quality judges and everyone seem to adapt fast. This set of rule did seem to attracked "head hunting" among the competitors.

When we went to the second round Mr. Hartman recommended we go to a 1 point for everything.  This was less confusing and the "head Hunting" went away, however, to me it seem to turn into a "who could tag the arm or leg".  The skill of arins stick fighing seem to go away and I question some of the strikes.  Most of the points that were scored was when the competors hit the arm/leg with the tip of there stick. What dose everyone think.  Should the tip of the stick to a arm or leg be a point or should I make them use the middle of the stick to hit the arm or leg?  

Let me give some examples.  I have had my hands, fingers, arms, and legs hit with bambo and rattlin sticks.  I have even been through Iron shin and Iron forarm training in my Kung fu system.  I believe that a strike with the tip of someones stick (to my arms or legs) I could with stand the pain long enough to counter. However if they hit 4-5 inchs into the stick I would believe I would be on the ground hoping  nothing broke.  

 Tonight as I was working with my black belts I noticed a big black and blue mark on the forarm of one of my first degrees.  When I ask him he replyed that if was a souvenir from Mr Hartman during the arnis stick fighting last weekend.  We used Smacksticks which is paded stick that  have the flexablity to allow you to strike, lock, or hold your opponit yet soft enough that no major damage is done.  My guess is Mr. Hartman hit my black belt not with the tip of the stick but 3-4 inches down.  

I am thinking this:   rules should be 3- head, 2- body, 1 arm/leg and a arm or leg point should only be scored if you hit below the white tape that is placed 3-4 inchs below the tip of the stick.  What's everyone think.


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## arnisador (Oct 27, 2005)

It depends on how strongly you want to reinforce the defang the snake concept. Like they say, the big difference between Judo and BJJ is the point system--how they're awarded. I like the defang the snake idea so I like to see the hand be a high-value target. But, opinions vary!


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## dearnis.com (Oct 27, 2005)

First, hats off to you for trying to come up with a better scoring system.  The problem is, no one will ever be 100% happy with any "simulation" system..."what if this/that/something else."  
I agree with Arni that defanging the snake should count somewhere along the line (esp. if the one de=fanged actually drops their stick...), but not all arm or leg shots will be decisive, especially on experienced (read previously numbed) players.  With that said, I think you have a decent compromise system.
You mention scoring hits made with the stick below a mark 3/4" from the tip; how far towards the hand grip are the hits still seen  as valid?


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## Xequat (Oct 27, 2005)

Maybe score the same for head and body shots (either 2 or 3, but same for both), since either can be pretty deadly, and score 1 for hand/leg strikes.  That would simplify it a little and I think make sense.  You could award a bonus point or 2 or 6 (whatever you like) for a disarm.  If you're using smacksticks, then you probably won't break any hands by targeting them, so you might be able to get better at some of the more mechanical disarm techniques.  It also depends on whether you see it as stick fighting or simulated blade fighting, too.  If you see it a blade, then a body strike and a head strike really are equally deadly, so scoring the same makes sense to me.  I'd use 3 for the body/head strikes and 1 for the hand/leg strikes personally plus a bonus 2 for a disarm, since that's probably a fight-winner too.


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## Flatlander (Oct 27, 2005)

Good point about encouraging defanging the snake, Arnisador.  This is certainly something that I'd want to keep in mind when putting together a scoring system.

I notice that there are only points given for strikes with the sticks - what about locks, takedowns, disarms, emptyhand strikes, kicks, etc... are these things being rewarded as well?

Lastly, I would like to remind that a strike with the tip of the stick can be exceptionally brutal, but it depends on the type of strike.  A well placed abanico to the wrist or the back of the hand will, without protection, likely disarm the opponent.  To the side of the head, it should likely end the engagement.

:asian:


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## Brian R. VanCise (Oct 27, 2005)

All strikes to the hands and wrists need to be treated with a
great deal of respect! If you hit the opponents hand or wrist
they are probably disarmed! However a good strike to the head
or body can totally neutralize the opponent. I would opt for 
balance in a format of 1 to 1 to 1 with everything being equal!
Those that like to head hunt will still do that and the people who 
want to defang the snake will also continue to do that! Plus body 
shots count the same! That is just my opinion!

Brian R. VanCise


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## Datu Tim Hartman (Oct 27, 2005)

Hello everyone-

I wanted to comment on the tournament that Sifu Adams held and the rules.

*The Tournament:*

It was a great experience! I felt at home, no politics and great sportsmanship from all of the competitors! The down side, it was a 13 hour round trip. Would I do it again? You bet.

*The Stick Fighting rules:*

I like one point for everything for several reasons. First off it is very easy for people to judge. For those who attend tournaments, you know how hard it is to find judges and with a complicated scoring method it makes it harder. In most Karate tournaments sparring is down on a 1- point system. This makes is easy for everyone. When you have a multi point system you open up a bigger can of worms being focused on the quality of the officials.

We must also consider what our padded stick represents. In my school I teach using rattan and Smak  Stiks. If I was to fight someone I would be using Kamagong or Bahi. If I was to hit someones hand or arm with that kind of stick I would think that there would be a very likely chance of shattering the bones. Some systems look at it as if we were using blades. 

Ive used this method for over 10 years and find that it works great for me. I do feel that if we can elevate the presence of the sport over the years we could have advanced divisions with different scoring methods. In introducing new events at tournaments it has to be easy for everyone to understand. This includes the judges, competitors and spectators. 

In conclusion I would like to say that I dont care what the rules are as long as there are competent judges available. I came to fight and I did! I had a great time and would do it again!


*Jeff*, you might want to ask the same question over at www.FMATalk.com seeing that there are so many FMAers over there that compete in stick fighting you may want to see what they say.


:asian:


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