# The Kihon Happo



## Kalamazoo Ninja (Mar 17, 2013)

The Kihon Happo...the eight basic moves every Ninja needs to know in order to advance. I was wondering if we might open a discussion on these moves and throw some advice out there for us beginning students of the art. These are the ones I know...

Omote Gyaku - outside wrist lock
Musha Dori - arm lock Shoulder rip
Muso Dori - arm lock Elbow crusher
Gansaki Nagi - arm lock to shoulder throw

I was wondering the other 4. I know that there are a few based on the Ichimonji Jumonji and Hicho kamae or am I mistaken?


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## Chris Parker (Mar 18, 2013)

Okay, you got some wrong already...

But honestly, talk to your instructor. That's not just because they should be guiding you through it, but because it is taught differently by different teachers. So what one teacher shows isn't necessarily what you're getting shown.


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## Kalamazoo Ninja (Mar 18, 2013)

Hmmm. But fundamentally the moves should be the same shouldn't they? Minus the little details I'm more focused on learning the Japanese if anyone could post the Kihon Happo with the Japanese to English? 

Also yes I do have a Sensei to ask but as some may know Sensei's are very busy most of the time so that's why we have this forum!


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## Kurai (Mar 18, 2013)

Chris Parker said:


> Okay, you got some wrong already...
> 
> But honestly, talk to your instructor. That's not just because they should be guiding you through it, but because it is taught differently by different teachers. So what one teacher shows isn't necessarily what you're getting shown.



Chris has already answered this.  Ask your sensei.  It's core fundamentals you're inquiring about.  If your sensei is so busy they can't answer questions about core fundamentals, and I were you, I'd be seeking a new sensei.


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## Kalamazoo Ninja (Mar 18, 2013)

Ok not to be sassy or anything but this a Ninjutsu forum and this is a Ninjutsu question. I will ask my Sensei but I expect better feedback from the experts here


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## jks9199 (Mar 18, 2013)

Kalamazoo Ninja said:


> Ok not to be sassy or anything but this a Ninjutsu forum and this is a Ninjutsu question. I will ask my Sensei but I expect better feedback from the experts here


There are some things you simply have to be taught by your instructor.  Chris Parker mentioned that some instructors teach the Kihon Happo in different ways, so were he to post his way up, it might be a hindrance rather than a help.  Other than that -- maybe there are reasons why your instructor hasn't taught you more of it yet.  You may not have some important underlying piece or you may need to understand the sets you've been taught better before you learn more.  I don't teach ninjutsu -- but there are often reasons why I teach or don't teach students something.  In those cases, the last thing I want is them to go online and find someone to tell them before I do...  I'm the guy training them regularly, and who knows what they're ready for.  It sounds arrogant -- but that's part of being the teacher.


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## Kalamazoo Ninja (Mar 18, 2013)

I've learned the Kihon Happo physically...I've done the moves in class. I'm simply looking to connect the dots between the Japanese words and techniques. Common experts help me out. Its just a fill-in-the-blank question you guys.


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## jks9199 (Mar 18, 2013)

Kalamazoo Ninja said:


> The Kihon Happo...the eight basic moves every Ninja needs to know in order to advance. I was wondering if we might open a discussion on these moves and throw some advice out there for us beginning students of the art. These are the ones I know...
> 
> Omote Gyaku - outside wrist lock
> Musha Dori - arm lock Shoulder rip
> ...


(emphasis mine)


Kalamazoo Ninja said:


> I've learned the Kihon Happo physically...I've done the moves in class. I'm simply looking to connect the dots between the Japanese words and techniques. Common experts help me out. Its just a fill-in-the-blank question you guys.



Notice, that's not what you asked.  You claimed to know 4, and your post suggested a vague idea about the others.  Kind of like if you asked us to tell you the alphabet, saying "I know abc, and I think there's a d and maybe something like q in there; can you tell me the rest?"

Let me offer a suggestion, having viewed most of your posts.  Take a few seconds before you hit send, and make sure that the post actually says what you mean it to.


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## Kalamazoo Ninja (Mar 18, 2013)

OK...Beuller? ...Bueller? I've yet to get anyone to contribute anything usefull about the Kihon Happo. Stop critizing me and contribute to the thread. This type of thread can be a usefull tool for students if we get good feedback.


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## jks9199 (Mar 18, 2013)

People do have lives and jobs and other things than sitting here, monitoring to answer your questions.  Only reason I'm on right now is that I'm home sick...  Some folks even live in other countries, and are several hours separated.  Check back tomorrow; you may have answers.


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## Kalamazoo Ninja (Mar 18, 2013)

Here is my answer. Thank you me.http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=BFJnECPqDWU&feature=&desktop_uri=/watch?v=BFJnECPqDWU&feature


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## Chris Parker (Mar 18, 2013)

Son, learning off you-tube is pointless. Don't look to it for anything definite.

But, to get to why you need to use your teacher as your primary (and, I'd suggest, only) reference in this, your list included Muso Dori and Ganseki Nage... most teach those as variations of each other, so won't include both. You missed Omote Gyaku Tsuki, you missed Ura Gyaku, some include Oni Kudaki, others don't, some have Musha Dori, the Jinenkan swap the names for Musha Dori and Muso Dori around, there are different forms of Ichimonji, Hicho, and Jumonji taught (depending on organization and teacher), the exact way of doing any of the kata change, and more. In essence, it's three striking techniques, and five torite techniques, but bluntly, talk to your instructor. If they haven't shown you them (and, again, some Bujinkan instructors don't see any real value in it, so don't teach or focus on it... it's not really a focus in the Genbukan, for instance, at least not the the degree of the Bujinkan), ask them why. If they have, and you have questions about them, ask them! We're not your teacher, and there are very real reasons we're not about to post what the kata are, or how they're done (besides the fact that it probably won't match what you've seen). Hell, there's debate as to where the kata even come from, let alone what they are, so there is no definitive, single form. Okay?

EDIT: Okay, watched the video... don't follow what is shown there. That's not the Kihon Happo.


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## punisher73 (Mar 19, 2013)

Is this where you study or is it somewhere else?
http://wmbudokan.com/Bujinkan.html

Knowing what lineage/type of ninjutsu you are studying can help people give you more help.


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## Kalamazoo Ninja (Mar 19, 2013)

punisher73 said:


> Is this where you study or is it somewhere else?
> http://wmbudokan.com/Bujinkan.html
> 
> Knowing what lineage/type of ninjutsu you are studying can help people give you more help.



Yes that is my dojo!
Thank you Chris for that response that definitely helps me grab some perspective on the moves more. Let's keep that good info coming! Now my question is...why do the moves differ from dojo to dojo? Shouldn't instructors only teach what Hatsumi Sensei has designated as the way?


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## punisher73 (Mar 19, 2013)

Kalamazoo Ninja said:


> Yes that is my dojo!
> Thank you Chris for that response that definitely helps me grab some perspective on the moves more. Let's keep that good info coming! Now my question is...why do the moves differ from dojo to dojo? Shouldn't instructors only teach what Hatsumi Sensei has designated as the way?



I visited there and observed a ninjutsu class.  Seemed like a great group of people, but it wasn't what I was looking for personally.  Hope you enjoy your journey there.


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## Chris Parker (Mar 19, 2013)

Kalamazoo Ninja said:


> Yes that is my dojo!
> Thank you Chris for that response that definitely helps me grab some perspective on the moves more. Let's keep that good info coming! Now my question is...why do the moves differ from dojo to dojo? Shouldn't instructors only teach what Hatsumi Sensei has designated as the way?



Well, for one thing, the Jinenkan and the Genbukan don't follow Hatsumi, so no, they'd have no reason to. But, more importantly, Hatsumi changes what he shows each time... so what is the way he has designated as "the way"? In short, there isn't one. There is no quality control in the Bujinkan, as each dojo is basically left up to itself to decide what they want to do, so what one dojo teaches is really more up to the instructor in question, rather than necessarily anything Hatsumi shows. So, when it comes to your personal study of Kihon Happo (and, well, everything else), you really do need to look to what your teacher shows you. Which, I believe, is what I said right at the beginning.


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## gapjumper (Mar 20, 2013)

Kalamazoo Ninja said:


> Here is my answer. Thank you me.http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=BFJnECPqDWU&feature=&desktop_uri=/watch?v=BFJnECPqDWU&feature



Does that match what your instructor has shown you?


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## Aiki Lee (Mar 23, 2013)

I'm not even able to view the video; what does it show?

As has been already stated, the kihon happo are different for each school. Some take out one kata and use its variations and others don't. For example the ninpo kihon happo in aiki ninjutsu are ichimonji no kata, jumonji no kata, hicho no kata, musha dori, ganseki nage, omote gyakku dori, omote gyakku tsuki, and ura gyakku. We also include te makura, ura and omote oni kudake, hon gyakku, and a bunch of variations of ganseki as required to know henka for testing purposes although we don't include them in the official listing.

I can probably be safe telling you that our version of ganseki nage, jumonji no kata, and hicho no kata are probably different from what you do based on the specific principles we want our students to get out of them. I can tell you what our organization get out of the kihon happo, but I don't see how that would help you.


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## Chris Parker (Mar 24, 2013)

Himura Kenshin said:


> I'm not even able to view the video; what does it show?



I'll let you judge that....






(If you click on the "Desktop" option at the top of the original link, it takes you to the clip. The OP was linking from a mobile device, and it didn't transfer properly).


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## Aiki Lee (Mar 24, 2013)

Well, at least that's not the worst version of those techniques I've seen.


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## skuggvarg (Mar 26, 2013)

Himura Kenshin said:


> Well, at least that's not the worst version of those techniques I've seen.



Maybe not the worst but far from what I would say a decent version of it. Lets face it, even if the guy knew how to, he would have problems applying the waza considering his weight problem. His kamae is awful and his balance is all over the place. Those locks wouldnt work on me even if I didnt actively resist them. Imagine how it would fare against a resisting opponent...

Regards / Skuggvarg


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## Tony Dismukes (Mar 26, 2013)

skuggvarg said:


> Maybe not the worst but far from what I would say a decent version of it. Lets face it, even if the guy knew how to, he would have problems applying the waza considering his weight problem. His kamae is awful and his balance is all over the place. Those locks wouldnt work on me even if I didnt actively resist them. Imagine how it would fare against a resisting opponent...
> 
> Regards / Skuggvarg



I'd have to agree.  I haven't practiced Bujinkan taijutsu in years and I was never that advanced to begin with, but even I can see at least a few glaring problems in his execution.


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## Aiki Lee (Mar 26, 2013)

I've seen people his size able to effectively apply the techniques. The weight issue is only an issue because he can't keep his balance. Plus there is no tsukuri and his angling is off. I'd say the issue has less to do with his weight and more to do with his lack of spatial awareness.


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## KydeX (Apr 4, 2013)

I train in the Bujinkan, and this is the Kihon Happo We're using now (it's been changed over the years, and I'm not providing any details):

1. Defense against a high punch, consists of a yodan block and a shuto ken punch to the neck. Starting from Ichimonji no kamae.

2. Defense against a mid punch. Low block, kick, and ura shuto to the neck. Same starting position as no. 1.

3. Defense against two consecutive punches. Start from Jumonji no kamae. Block, then punch to the ribs using either shiken ken or boshi ken.

4. Omote gyaku

5. Omote gyaku again, only uke throws a punch while grabbing you.

6. Ura gyaku

7. Musha Dori

8. Ganseki Nage


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## Fritz (Oct 24, 2013)

Perhaps a bit late to the replies but I'd like to add WHY one should speak to their teacher regarding the kihon happo or any real discussion of technique as I can understand why it might be a bit frustrating since somebody is very eager to learn and may not fully understand why it would be hard to get a reply on the basic techniques of an art. I&#8217;ll try to stay on topic with an example.

A friend of mine was at a recent seminar and asked why a certain technique was done differently by the students called up to demo it when compared to what we practice at the dojo. For the most part shouldn&#8217;t a technique be the same?

I replied it depended on the situation at hand- not in terms of &#8220;fighting&#8221; and adapting to that, but rather who was in the room. 

Who is the audience?

Say I was called up to demonstrate the first technique of the kihon happo- ichimonji no kata my teacher is in the room, and for my own training at this time they told me to put a strong emphasis on a particular part of the movement, perhaps even exaggerating it as it was my teachers intention to make sure I learn that part based on where I am on my training.

Now I get up to demo it, and do the technique emphasizing it because my teacher is in the room and that is how he has instructed me to do it until further notice. 

Not to do it that way would be against the advice of my teacher, and in a way a disrespect to them and what they are sharing with me.

So you see it that way and figure out that is &#8220;the&#8221; way to do it.

Same depends on the skill level of those in the room- a room full of new students need to start with a different focus on the kihon happo then some students who have been training for a few years- it will look different depending on them- but it WILL still be the kihon happo.

That said it is very important for the art and if I had to throw something out there beyond ask your teacher I would look into the Gyokko ryu quest DVD by Hatsumi sensei since it has the kihon happo on it.


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## 1992 (Dec 24, 2013)

^That is exactly how it is. I have been training in a Bujinkan dojo for a few months and there is only one other 9th kyu student besides myself who shows up on a regular basis.  So for me, as someone new to Bujinkan the training seems very non-linear and I am training with green belts mostly. We do cover the Kihon Happo, but I did not know of or learn the 5 basic kata until I trained with the highest ranking student in class at his home.  This is where I am confused, because I keep hearing that the Kihon Happo is made of 8 basic movements. We do Omote Gyaku, Ura Gyaku, Onikidaki, Musha Dori, and Ganseki Nage as a flow drill. As in, it is practiced as if the Uke were escaping each of the techniques and it leads you into performing the next consecutive technique ending with the throw in Ganseki Nage. Anyway, I am not sure what the last three basic movements are.  I am reading here that they are Ichimonji and Jumonji, the latter which I remember.  That makes 7, so what am I missing?  I take it the 5 basic kata are not included in the Kihon Happo, so where do they fit in?


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## Chris Parker (Dec 24, 2013)

You're missing Hicho no Kata. If you're referring to what's commonly called the Sanshin no Kata as the "five basic kata", then yeah, they're not part of the Kihon Happo. If you're referring to the Torite no Gata as the "five basic kata", then they are (although, technically, the Torite no Gata are 10 kata, as each of the five are done on both the right and left sides). The Torite no Gata are a series of joint locking methods (Omote Gyaku, Omote Gyaku Tsuki, Ura Gyaku, Musha Dori, Muso Dori/Ganseki Nage,with variations depending on your teacher, as listed earlier in the thread), which, combined with the Moto Gata (three striking-based patterns, being Ichimonji no Kata, Hicho no Kata, and Jumonji no Kata) form the Kihon Happo (in basic terms, at least). The Sanshin/Shoshin Gogyo Gokei no Gata/Goshin no Kata are a series of five "elemental" named patterns, often learnt solo (although they are also trained with a partner in other forms of exploration), being namely Chi no Kata (Earth), Sui no Kata (Water), Ka no Kata (Fire, occasionally listed as "Hi no Kata), Fu no Kata (Wind), and Ku no Kata (Void).


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