# favorite kenpo concept or priciple



## shawn monday (Jun 27, 2002)

I want to compare different principles...whats everyones favorite


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## brianhunter (Jun 27, 2002)

marriage of gravity......you can feel it, and it really gets me thinking about how I should "settle" into my stances or sychronize my movements to make it even more effective


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## jeffkyle (Jun 27, 2002)

I like the concept of heigth, width, and depth zones.  And the idea of cancelling them all.  Very effective way of controlling your opponent.


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## shawn monday (Jun 27, 2002)

you guys forgot about  economy of motion....my favorite


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## brianhunter (Jun 27, 2002)

> _Originally posted by shawn monday _
> 
> *you guys forgot about  economy of motion....my favorite *




Yeah Ive seen your drink you dont waste much movement


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## jeffkyle (Jun 27, 2002)

And how much marriage of gravity do you have?


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## Goldendragon7 (Jun 28, 2002)

but my favorite doesn't matter as much as having the one I need at the time of an attack.   Then my favorite is the one that works for what I need!!!  

As for practice...... Kenpo Logic is my favorite overall concept, it encompasses all!

:asian:


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## brianhunter (Jun 28, 2002)

I never looked at "kenpo logic" as being a concept or principle within itself untill now  but I like that idea.....I think thats what keeps alot of people in our art is the fact that it is logical and it works through the ideals, the what ifs, etc...


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## jeffkyle (Jun 28, 2002)

"Kenpo Logic"  That is a good way to summarize it all up.  Pretty cool.  I like it!


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## tonbo (Jun 28, 2002)

Hmmmm.

I would have to say the one that was referred to in Infinite Insights , vols 1-5, start to finish.

That would be my favorite.   

Peace--


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## Quinn-child (Jun 28, 2002)

Heh, I like point of origin.  I think it's cool to be able to just pick up your weapon from wherever it is and still be able to defend yourself with it.

I also like gravitational marriage.  I like that feeling I get when I actually sink into my stance and get it right.  It's a cool feeling.

Oos - 
Quinn :asian:


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## shawn monday (Jun 28, 2002)

what doyou guys think about matching counters


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## kenpo_cory (Jun 28, 2002)

I can't really say I have a favorite because I'm intrigued by the whole system of kenpo, which I havent even begun to experience all of.


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## satans.barber (Jun 28, 2002)

For me, it has to be that "a block is also a strike and a strike is also a block", I think that sets kenpo apart from a vast majority of other styles, certainly shocks the new people who come in from the Shotokan and TKD clubs to try us out...

Ian.


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## Kirk (Jun 29, 2002)

> _Originally posted by shawn monday _
> 
> *what doyou guys think about matching counters *



What is that?


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## jeffkyle (Jun 29, 2002)

quote: Originally posted by shawn monday 

what doyou guys think about matching counters  


What is that?




When your kitchen counter matches your bathroom counter.


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## Goldendragon7 (Jun 30, 2002)

What are those......?


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## ProfessorKenpo (Jun 30, 2002)

> _Originally posted by jeffkyle _
> 
> *quote: Originally posted by shawn monday
> 
> ...


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## Goldendragon7 (Jun 30, 2002)

> _Originally posted by ProfessorKenpo _*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## shawn monday (Jun 30, 2002)

Matching counters is when you do exactly what the attacker does.....example,, pin to pin/grab tograb/ 
basicall y matching what the other guy doesto deter action


i came across it one day working out with my teacher walter justice it is taken from the ed parker's encyclopedia of kenpo


clyde, hey whats up


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## ProfessorKenpo (Jun 30, 2002)

Hey Shawn, I haven't seen that one in the Encylopedia but at least I knew what it was LOL.    Doing great and can't wait to see you guys when you come to Pasadena.     Looking forward to having you guys run the line with us.     Hope all is well in the Kenpo world there in Kansas City and beyond and don't hesitate to call if you need some help on something, Walter has my number.    Tell him I said hi when you talk to him.

Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde


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## Rainman (Jun 30, 2002)

> _Originally posted by ProfessorKenpo _
> 
> *Hey Shawn, I haven't seen that one in the Encylopedia but at least I knew what it was LOL.
> *



 



> I would interpret matching counters as an example: opponent throws left backfist, in turn we lauch a right backfist, striking above the elbow to create an angle of cancellation. Maybe that's it, don't know for sure.



This is mirror image- hence the right to the left with the same weapon - depending on angle of execution etc., of course


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## ProfessorKenpo (Jun 30, 2002)

Matching counters, does it really matter whether they're mirror image or not,  I don't think so.

Clyde


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## shawn monday (Jun 30, 2002)

Clyde is right, mirrior image is the opposite of whatever you employ. like after a right inward block then you execute a left...


for those who doubt.. ed parkers encyclopedia of kenpo..
                    Mirror image...page 81
                    Matching counters...page 78


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## brianhunter (Jun 30, 2002)

Man Shawn you can be full of info sometimes, your alright I dont care what jeff says about you!


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## Rainman (Jun 30, 2002)

> _Originally posted by ProfessorKenpo _
> 
> *Matching counters, does it really matter whether they're mirror image or not,  I don't think so.
> 
> Clyde *




Yes it does matter, they are different.   What you described was a mirror image matching counter.  A matching counter could just be two right step through pushes from either person.  Matching not opposite.    Applications and intersection angles can vary widely.  You commented how important "terminology" is...



> Clyde is right, mirrior image is the opposite of whatever you employ. like after a right inward block then you execute a left...



see above and cross reference with the Encyclopedia.


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## big351stang (Jul 8, 2002)

id have to say that marriage of gravity is my favorite, becasue it was the first one that i learned, so its been w/ me the longest and ive come to see it in a lot of what i do in my normal live.


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## SolidTiger (Jul 8, 2002)

If you have a good counter attack you have a good weapon you
can use when you fight. I like to make my opponent miss his attack and couter attack after. 

Thank you

SolidTiger


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## Klondike93 (Jul 9, 2002)

I think there is, but when I first started kenpo my first instructor drilled checking the arm or leg into me so it's second nature now.


:asian:


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## GouRonin (Jul 9, 2002)

I think it was the principle that a wise old Kenpoist one told me.

_"When you're done. Take his wallet because you don't fight for free."_


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## Goldendragon7 (Jul 9, 2002)

It's called " Cheque the Wallet".......:rofl: 

:asian:


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## GouRonin (Jul 9, 2002)

Bill Lear and I came up with a new Kenpo technique last night. It's called, _"Evading The Retard"_

Defense against a right step through punch. We used a right step through because even though it is never used it allows beginners to develop their read time and then they can adapt it to other strikes.

1) As punch comes at you, step to 9 O'clock facing 3 O'clock.

2) Reach out with right hand and heel palm opponent's forehead.

3) Say, _"Wassa mattah wit you?"_

4) Cross out.

My new Kenpo system where you can fight and still manage to old your beer will be out on DVD this fall. When I sober up.


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## WilliamTLear (Jul 9, 2002)

No worries... I have a new invention called the BEER BACK PACK, comming to a store near you! Then you can Kick *** (totally sweet), and get drunk enough not to remember until your family bails you outta jail a day later.

Here's to Gou,
Billy


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## cdhall (Jul 10, 2002)

> _Originally posted by shawn monday _
> 
> *I want to compare different principles...whats everyones favorite *



If I have to pick one I would say Borrowed Force.  I love Calming the Storm.  I think it is the first technique I learned (or realized) where you step into them and hit them as they come at you.  This is so funny.  Ha, ha.  "Were you going to hit me with That club?"


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## Seig (Jul 10, 2002)

My new favorite is Extort the Texan


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## ikenpo (Jul 10, 2002)

> _Originally posted by cdhall _
> 
> *
> 
> ...



Doug,

How far have you taken that technique in terms of "aliveness"? I've found that's its pretty hard to time a guy that is really just trying to knock the sh*t out of you. You normally end up with a stick whelp across your face or ribs while the people that were watching are saying stuff like, "Ouch, that looked like it hurt!!! Are you ok?!?"

I know we always preface the tech descriptions explaining how a person "normally" draws back and that gives us the time to make our entry timing and distance, yada, yada, yada....

But the reality, IMHO is that techniques like that have to be practices so much that when the actual opportunity arises your response isn't really the technique as much as it is a (hopefully) appropriate response that minimizes damage to you. As Doc might say surviving the initial attack. 

We always feel "good" about seeing just how snazzy our technique we just did was able to take out our victim/opponent, but in my experience of training on a very physical level its more likely your gonna get the crap smacked out of you. So you train for the best & worst, accept the reality of what your given and condition yourself to survive the encounter (even if it means taking your lumps). And god forbid you find someone who knows how to use a stick....then your screwed (dog brothers style). 

jb:asian: 
Houston, Tx


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## Mace (Jul 10, 2002)

Hey JB,
 I've found calming the storm to be a useful tool as a preemptive strike against someone with a stick. If they have a stick in their hand and you are forced to stand your ground unarmed, then attack first and use a wedge. You can always alter your left hand's direction if you see movement with the stick. I wouldn't wait for them to make the first move in this situation, you will probably eat the stick. Better to back up and find a chair to even the odds if at all possible. :shrug: 
Respectfully,
Mace


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## jeffkyle (Jul 10, 2002)

I sure like the concept of moving into and shortening the attack of your opponent, whether it be against a club or a plain ol punch.  It is cool to catch people off guard with by stepping into their action.


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## Seig (Jul 10, 2002)

If at all possible, close the distance and/or get behind them and then it's *CLOBBERIN* time!


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## Zenmaster (Jul 18, 2002)

Marriage of body weight in a strike


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## Doc (Jul 22, 2002)

---I know we always preface the tech descriptions explaining how a person "normally" draws back and that gives us the time to make our entry timing and distance, yada, yada, yada....---

Keep in mind JB that how a weapon will be utilized depends upon it's mass. Most unskilled will pick a weapon because it has sufficient mass to supplement their intent. If the mass is significant, than "cocking" will be a physical requirement to gain significant control to initiate an offensive strike with the extra weight mechanically removed or extended from the torso. Don't forget, even a whip has to be cocked to acquire maximum benefit of the "whipping" action.

---But the reality, IMHO is that techniques like that have to be practices so much that when the actual opportunity arises your response isn't really the technique as much as it is a (hopefully) appropriate response that minimizes damage to you. As Doc might say surviving the initial attack.---

"Surviving the Initial Assault" IS a part of the technique in our curriculum, but it is so specific to the assault, the description is not included in the written curriculum, but designed to be taught by an instructor. Every technique and it is so subtle, if I wrote them, it would complicate the coursebooks.unnecessarily.

--- And god forbid you find someone who knows how to use a stick....then your screwed (dog brothers style). ---

Martial Artist skilled in weapons don't attack people. People who do attack people are not skilled with weapons. The street weapons of choice are blades and guns, usually to intimidate and force their will on a subject. If the primary intent is to cut/stab, or shoot, you won't even see it coming.


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## brianhunter (Jul 22, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Doc _
> 
> *---Martial Artist skilled in weapons don't attack people. People who do attack people are not skilled with weapons. The street weapons of choice are blades and guns, usually to intimidate and force their will on a subject. If the primary intent is to cut/stab, or shoot, you won't even see it coming. *



Could you explain this more please? It sounds interesting but I was always of the school that there are Sith lords and there are Jedi (sorry for the star wars)


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## cdhall (Jul 22, 2002)

> _Originally posted by jbkenpo _
> 
> *
> 
> ...



Sorry to take so long to reply.  I'm  not getting notified of new posts... or being auto subscribed to threads anymore.  I've notified Bob.

You have probably worked this technique more than me.  I have done it fast vs a padded weapon, but not a live stick.  And the attacker probably artificially cooperates on the block... I can't say.

I say the sooner you hit them the better.  I like Borrowed Force and I think this is the first time I had it so that is why I used the example.

But I also love to use this vs a punch.  Now that you have brought it up though, I may work it with the left outward going down at 45 Degrees to keep the club away from your head and see how that turns out.  Catching the wrist is probably impractical.

If I were really scared of getting hit, I'd probably do Returning Storm instead, or hit them very early to stuff them and graft into soemething else like Defying the Storm which you could also say uses Borrowed Force if you count the bicep strike as a strike.  Since he is moving toward you I think that should also count.  I think I like Defying the Storm even better than Calming, but Calming was first.
 
:asian:


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## Goldendragon7 (Jul 24, 2002)

This is one that most ignore............


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## WilliamTLear (Jul 24, 2002)

Preparatory Torque.

This is another that people tend to ignore.

Hasta,
Billy


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## Goldendragon7 (Jul 24, 2002)

> _Originally posted by WilliamTLear _*
> Preparatory Torque.  This is another that people tend to ignore.
> *



Preparing to torque?   hmmmmmmm

must be a mental thing for Billy? 

:rofl:


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## Michael Billings (Jul 24, 2002)

Anybody heard of a "Confluence of Forces?"  

Think Body Momentum with Backup Mass, Directional Harmony, Rotation, Gravitational Marrage as you utilize Borrowed Force and disrupt or check their height, width and depth zones.

It would be a synergistic response to an attack and could apply to any technique.  The sum is greater than the total of it's parts.  

-Michael
UKS-Texas


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## Goldendragon7 (Jul 24, 2002)

and drooled all over myself!

  :rofl:


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## GouRonin (Jul 25, 2002)

Dragon drool is gross!


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## Michael Billings (Jul 25, 2002)

dribble ... dribble ... dribble.


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