# Meditation?



## The Master (Jul 20, 2007)

Taken from the writings of SGM Parker:
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10. MEDITATION: Before a class actually commences, students are required to meditate in a horse stance, with their backs erect, head bowed, eyes closed, and their left open hand covering their right clenched fist. This position is also assumed at the end of the training session. The purpose of this practise is to have the students clear their minds of all outside activities prior to starting their class. In the event they may have had a confrontation on the street causing negative thoughts, they should clear their minds of such thoughts to prevent them or fellow students from receiving possible injury. With a calm and serene mind, they will be able to absorb new material more readily, become more conscious of their every effort, and crisp in their actions. In short, it prepares the mind and body to receive or reflect on the knowledge obtained.
When meditating at the conclusion of class, students are to ponder over the knowledge received and make a personal commitment not to ever misuse the new (or old) knowledge. They are to constantly reflect upon the preciousness of life and the Creed which they are to follow.
		
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I have some questions.

How long should this meditation be?  From the classes I have observed and participated in, it is brief, less than 5 minutes in fact.  My own experience with serious meditation states that a longer time period should be observed in order to truly clear ones mind and obtain maximum effectiveness. 

Is this brief post class pondering truly effective?  How much information is really retained and internalised from this momentary reflection?  Shouldn't a longer period be observed for it to be really effective?
*


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## Carol (Jul 20, 2007)

Interesting question Mr. Racheim. 

Traditional meditation often involves the person sitting down on a flat surface...the floor, a prayer mat, a mat, etc.

Note Mr. Parker says the students are meditating in a horse stance....a difficult - and painful - position to hold for an extended period of time. 

Most people that pay for martial arts instruction want to maximise their instruction time with instruction...there is nothing that would prevent the student from meditating and pursuing an introspective look at their training when they are off the mat.


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## Hawke (Jul 21, 2007)

In the beginning of class I use this time to clear my mind of the outside world and focus in the here and now so that I may be more fully present in the training hall.

At the end of class I use it to review certain principles and concepts.

For deeper meditation I do that outside of class.  I never go so deep that my mind is blank.  This is my personal choice.


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## Edmund BlackAdder (Jul 22, 2007)

Long enough to clear your mind and focus, not so long that you start having visions or snoring.


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## MJS (Jul 22, 2007)

At my current school, there is no meditation period.  A formal bow at the beginning and end.  My last school however, did a meditation before and after.  It was as the OP stated, less than 5 min.  Personally, I liked the idea, as it gave you some time before to clear your mind of the days activity and focus on the class, and time at the end to wind down.  

I often wonder though...do people actually know how to meditate?  I mean, I'm sure there is much more to it than just closing your eyes for 3 min.  I'd observe a class and it would seem as if people were not focusing at all.  I'd see movement, someone rubbing their eyes, scratching their head, etc.  I dont think, that if they were in a serious meditation, movement or any of the other above mentioned things, would be taking place.

Mike


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## Bob Hubbard (Jul 22, 2007)

I haven't seen anything I'd consider serious meditation anywhere I've observed.  It's been my experience that while they tell you to meditate, that they don't tell you how to do it, or really what you should be doing.  One instructor would just call for "meditation", I'd count to about 15 and he'd call "clear" and on they went.  Seemed pointless to me.


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## seninoniwashi (Sep 2, 2007)

The Master said:


> Taken from the writings of SGM Parker:
> *Is this brief post class pondering truly effective? How much information is really retained and internalised from this momentary reflection? Shouldn't a longer period be observed for it to be really effective?*


 
In my experience it really depends on the experience level. A person who has practiced meditation for a great deal of time develops a switch internally where they can close their eyes and empty their consciousness with little effort. For others without that switch typically a mantra must be chanted or something to bring you to that state.

With beginning belts, I can see the meditating horse being used to get the idea out there and with more practice it getting used for what it was suppose to be used for.


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## seninoniwashi (Sep 2, 2007)

Bob Hubbard said:


> I haven't seen anything I'd consider serious meditation anywhere I've observed. It's been my experience that while they tell you to meditate, that they don't tell you how to do it, or really what you should be doing. One instructor would just call for "meditation", I'd count to about 15 and he'd call "clear" and on they went. Seemed pointless to me.


 
I've seen the same thing in just about every Kenpo school I've been in. Thankfully, in my first school they explained what you were trying to do and how to accomplish it. Seemed pointless at first but after pursuing it and working hard at it it does help.

I think we all lose valuable time in class settling in and getting in the frame of mind.


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## Wingman (Sep 5, 2007)

As someone else said, for time you are paying your instructors to be taught by them you want the maximum use of both your time and money. While I will not say that a meditation of this kind isn't important, I would say that a greater service to the student would be to maximize class time with active learning and practice. 

The mistake many people make with Martial Arts training is in many places their learning only takes place in the dojo/studio/school or whatever you may call your place of training. Theres is no commitment to the material outside of the school. 

While this isn't a prime example of that idea, this is still an example of something beneficial a student can and arguably should do for themselves on their own time.


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## DavidCC (Sep 5, 2007)

Wingman said:


> As someone else said, for time you are paying your instructors to be taught by them you want the maximum use of both your time and money. While I will not say that a meditation of this kind isn't important, I would say that a greater service to the student would be to maximize class time with active learning and practice.
> 
> The mistake many people make with Martial Arts training is in many places their learning only takes place in the dojo/studio/school or whatever you may call your place of training. Theres is no commitment to the material outside of the school.
> 
> While this isn't a prime example of that idea, this is still an example of something beneficial a student can and arguably should do for themselves on their own time.


 
We take 1-2 minutes at the beginnig of each class.  I think it helps many people get their head into class (especially kids), I know it helps me.  I'm not sure what my teacher could be doing in that 2 minutes that would be better... it's not like we have a strict end time so if he -really- has something that needs to be done that day, then class can just go 120 seconds past the hour :idunno:


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## distalero (Sep 6, 2007)

The Master said:


> Taken from the writings of SGM Parker:
> *
> I have some questions.
> 
> ...




The point you make, by asking the question, is well taken but the obvious thing to say is, if you've done "meditation" of some duration and depth, then it's difficult to use the term "maximum effectiveness" or characterize any result, per se, and what frequently happens, assuming duration and depth, is that you CAN enter in the space of a few minutes. 

But not if your focus is trying it at the beginning of class, because your karate teacher said to.


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