# Karate Connections



## Samurai (Jan 21, 2003)

Has anyone used or reviewed these videos ?  What is your thoughts on them? 
http://www.karateconnection.com

Thanks
Jeremy Bays


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## Kirk (Jan 21, 2003)

I got the freebie, and the orange belt tape.  I like them.  The 
orange belt tape explains a LOT of the basics, very well.

As far as the effectiveness of the system, I don't know enough
about American Kenpo, to even say something about one I don't
train in.

I'd like to eventually one day become an instructor ... possibly 
run my own school.  They have incredible teaching aids for 
teaching kids.  I'd like to earn my b.b. in this system, and use it
as my kid's curriculum.  I've been reading a LOT from instructors
who say kids pay the bills.  My instructor is one of those.  He
teaches kids classes and cardio kickboxing ( a LOT ), and says if
he tried to make money teaching adult classes only, he'd be in 
the poor house.  He's also a b.b. in TKD, which is what he teaches
the kids.  TKD with kenpo forms and sets.


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## Big Pat (Jan 21, 2003)

I started in Mr. Parker's Chinese Kenpo. The IKCA Kenpo tapes are what I remember Kenpo to be. Very strong, powerful and based on foundation of solid basics. Mr. Sullivan and LeRoux have put togather a system that works very well for me. I prefer to train under someone who can say I have rather than I can. 

EKP RIP

Big Pat:asian:


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## thesensei (Jan 21, 2003)

Well, I just took the plunge and bought the videos.  I have not received them yet, but I think I will be pleased.  I began training in Chinese Kenpo 6 years ago under an instructor 3 generations from Mr. Parker.  I earned brown belt, and then moved away to go to college.  While in college, I earned my black belt in American Karate, and am currently working towards black in TKD.  I enjoy my friends in the TKD dojang, and have learned a few things, but I am hungry for more kenpo!  So, since there are no available instructors near me, I have decided to try this route.  I watched the preview video, and was impressed.  So...I'll let you know how it goes in the next few months!

JB


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## Kirk (Jan 21, 2003)

A big problem I found is that when the IKCA guys go from a 
neutral bow to a forward bow, they move both feet.  In  my
current school, we move just the back foot.  I'm told it protects
the groin, but in addition, it would take away a leg check.


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## WilliamTLear (Jan 21, 2003)

Moving the front foot when transitioning into a forward bow also destroys the stability of your stance.

Sincerely,
Billy Lear, UKS


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## jazkiljok (Jan 21, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Kirk _
> *A big problem I found is that when the IKCA guys go from a
> neutral bow to a forward bow, they move both feet.  In  my
> current school, we move just the back foot.  I'm told it protects
> the groin, but in addition, it would take away a leg check. *



when you say they move both feet- do you mean something akin to doing a Chubby Checker dance move? also did you see this on the vids or were you taught this yourself by the IKCA? 

peace:asian:


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## Samurai (Jan 22, 2003)

What forms (if any) are taught on these videos?

I have learned the Shotokan Karate forms up to brown belt, the Chun Do Kwan TaeKwon-do forms to black belt, and some Okinawan forms as well.  I would like to see some of the Parker forms.  Are they on these tapes?

I took a Chinese Kenpo class many, many years ago when I was only 9 or 10 and I still can remember some of the material some 25 years later.

thanks
Jeremy Bays


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## Blindside (Jan 22, 2003)

My understanding is that the IKCA does teaches only one form, the Master form.  It is made up of the self-defense techniques shown on the video tapes done in a perscribed order with different facings.  With each new group of techniques you learn, you get the next section of the form.  There is supposed to be a form similar to Short 1 taught somewhere early in the syllabus.

In the last 6 years I have seen three IKCA schools, one was OK, the other two did not impress me.  I don't know the details of how the schools train, but I felt that many of those schools basics were lacking (and I was viewing blackbelts).  

The standard number forms (Short and Long 1,2,3,4 etc) that are found in both Tracy and American kenpo are not used in this system.  

If you are interested in the AK forms I would recommend the Tatum tapes, though I have heard good things about the Planas tapes as well.

Lamont


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## Kirk (Jan 22, 2003)

> _Originally posted by jazkiljok _
> *when you say they move both feet- do you mean something akin to doing a Chubby Checker dance move? also did you see this on the vids or were you taught this yourself by the IKCA?
> 
> peace:asian: *



I saw it on the vids, done my Mr Le Roux and several others.


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## Kirk (Jan 22, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Blindside _
> *My understanding is that the IKCA does teaches only one form, the Master form.  It is made up of the self-defense techniques shown on the video tapes done in a perscribed order with different facings.  With each new group of techniques you learn, you get the next section of the form.  There is supposed to be a form similar to Short 1 taught somewhere early in the syllabus.
> 
> In the last 6 years I have seen three IKCA schools, one was OK, the other two did not impress me.  I don't know the details of how the schools train, but I felt that many of those schools basics were lacking (and I was viewing blackbelts).
> ...



Remember, this is NOT American Kenpo.  It's Chinese kenpo.  I'm
similar to you, in that I've only seen three EPAK school .. one was
good, so I signed up.  The other two did not impress me, and I 
too was viewing black belts.


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## Blindside (Jan 22, 2003)

Hi Kirk I'm not sure we disagree,

When I visited the first IKCA school I viewed it from the perspective of a kajukenboist.  I kept thinking "where the hell are the takedowns?"  But their basics were good, they did the techniques will power and spirit, so I think of them as being pretty good.

The latter two I saw after I had switched to a Tracy/Parker hybrid system.  Either my standards had gone way up or the these two schools were substandard.  I have visited and studied with three EPAK instructors, two of the three impressed me.

I am not judging the system(s) because I wasn't impressed with a couple of instructors, but it will certainly bring up questions regarding what is required in the arts.  

I will say that I have seen a tape of Warriorsage (he bops around this forum occasionally) doing the Master Form, and he looked good (well, except for the haircut ).  

Lamont


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## paul hutterer (Jan 22, 2003)

I have been a member of the Karate connection (I.K.C.A) for over three years and have just recently recieved my black belt. I learned from an instructor not from the tapes. Although I do have all of the tapes they are very helpfull. If there is a question as how to do something I refer to the tapes ,you have a instructor right there 24-7 that will repeat the technique as many times as you would like (just hit rewind). There are also drills on the tape to increase your reaction time in real life situations. One is called a mass atack drill ,the just of it is ,one person(the defendor) is in the middle of the room with anywhere from 2-10 people around them .There is one conductor .This conductor points to one of the attackers at random without the defendor seeing. The attackers can punch, kick or grab. The defendor has to defend the attack without hesitation to pass the drill.
 I am now going to answer some of the questions some people had in this thread.
  Ed Parker teaches American Kenpo and the karate connection teaches Chinese Kenpo
 As for the forward bow it is used as a sweep or a leg buckel ora soild base so you can push it is not intended as a fighting stance. 
Refer to Circling Serpent(purple belt tec.#3) Blinding daggers(blue belt tec#6) gathering the dragon (greenbelt tec#2) Dropping the storm (black belt tec.#1) All of these techniques use the forward bow. Even a horse stance can be unstable if you were to push someone from the front,now if you would try to push them from the side they are incredibly stable. The forward bow has the same concept.
 The master form is the only form taught and is added to with each belt level until you reach black belt which is 55 techniques and takes about 3 minutes to complete.
  Out of all of the base techniques there are 10 takedowns in the entire system. But the beauty of this system is once you learn it you can make anything technique a take down by simply adding it to the technique. 
 Also if you test by video you must send a viedo of your test in to get reviewed by Chuck Sullivan and Vic LeRoux. They will send the tape back with a video of themselves reviewing your test.
You will soon come to find out you are not just a number you are family to them. I have meet both Chuck an Vic many times and they are two incredible people!

I hope I could be of some help 
Full salute ,Paul Hutterer


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## Kirk (Jan 22, 2003)

> _Originally posted by paul hutterer _
> * As for the forward bow it is used as a sweep or a leg buckel or a soild base so you can push it is not intended as a fighting stance. *



Do you transition from a right neutral bow to a right forward bow 
while executing a punch?


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## Big Pat (Jan 22, 2003)

I would suggest that every Kenpoist video tape themselves training. I know that many of you will be in for a big surprise. Do the techniques from the front and then the side with and without a partner. This is how Mr. Parker {8mm movies} was able to unlock and improve his techniques. He was able to fight you coming in and going out. The IKCA tapes provided me with a excellent way to renew my Kenpo training. I thank Mr. Sullivan and LeRoux for their effort.

EKP RIP

Big Pat:asian:


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## bahenlaura (Jan 22, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Big Pat _
> *I would suggest that every Kenpoist video tape themselves training. I know that many of you will be in for a big surprise. Do the techniques from the front and then the side with and without a partner. This is how Mr. Parker {8mm movies} was able to unlock and improve his techniques. He was able to fight you coming in and going out. The IKCA tapes provided me with a excellent way to renew my Kenpo training. I thank Mr. Sullivan and LeRoux for their effort.
> 
> EKP RIP
> ...



 
great idea. i do that and helps alot to see all the exess moves that one does while trying to do a tech or a form. it is a great learning tool.


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## warriorsage (Jan 22, 2003)

> "I will say that I have seen a tape of Warriorsage (he bops around this forum occasionally) doing the Master Form, and he looked good (well, except for the haircut )."



Next time I'm up in your neck of the woods with my clippers, you can kiss your pony tail goodbye!

As for the IKCA, I will add this. I've trained with several other kenpoists since joining the IKCA. Some like what the IKCA is doing, while others are adamantly opposed to it. In either case, everyone I've worked with has complimented me on my strong basics and attention to detail, which I attribute to the IKCA. And a few of them like my "high and tight" haircut too!

Whip


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## jazkiljok (Jan 22, 2003)

> _Originally posted by paul hutterer _
> *
> As for the forward bow it is used as a sweep or a leg buckel ora soild base so you can push it is not intended as a fighting stance.
> 
> ...



i'd be curious to see how you sweep with a forward bow (is that front or back leg doing the sweeping?) 

forward bows are normally seen as transitional stances this is true- but stability and strength does depend on proper alignments- drop into a horse stance  point your toes out-- the stance loses stability- pushing from the side in a bad horse stance, it will feel weak.

feet, knees, hips, spine, head all play important roles in any stance- any one of these out of alignment and the stance can fail. 

but again-how do they teach the transition from neutral to forward- do they teach to  "move both feet" - can you give any specifics.

simply curious as to their method.

peace:asian:


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## Blindside (Jan 23, 2003)

> Next time I'm up in your neck of the woods with my clippers, you can kiss your pony tail goodbye!



Uh huh,

Hey Ron have you ever been to Wyoming?  Big wide open spaces, I promise you they will never find your body.   

Lamont


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## paul hutterer (Jan 23, 2003)

> _Originally posted by jazkiljok _
> *i'd be curious to see how you sweep with a forward bow (is that front or back leg doing the sweeping?)
> 
> forward bows are normally seen as transitional stances this is true- but stability and strength does depend on proper alignments- drop into a horse stance  point your toes out-- the stance loses stability- pushing from the side in a bad horse stance, it will feel weak.
> ...



You end up in a forward bow once your done sweeping with your back leg.Here is a detialed description of one of the first techniques of green belt using a forward bow as a leg buckle.
 GATHERING THE DRAGON- defense against a left punch - outside(step forward into a right cross stance while doing a parry block first with right arm to your left shoulder then the left ,going right into a right raking back fist to attackers ribs , this will bend the attacker over , then rear cross with your left foot while striking attackers face with your left palm , finally step back with your right leg to take there left leg out and fore arm the back of the attackers neck to take them to the ground ending in a left forward bow.

So you see there is never a time where you are going to just transition from a neutral bow to a forward bow. You end up in a forward as a result of a leg buckle. There is instances where you transition from a neutral bow to a rear bow . This may be where some people see both feet pivoting at the same time. But again this stance change is used to destroy the attackers knee by extending there knee the wrong way(painfull).
Here is an example of a technique using a rear bow as a leg buckle
ËRAKING HAMMER defense against a left roundhouse punch- inside(step back into a right neutral bow  right outside block, then step drag forward(note: your right leg should end up right next to there left leg) and rake attackers face with a right back fist, next drop and do a hammer fist to there groin ,finally spin into a rear bow to a right elbow under the chin at the same time ,ending in a right rear bow.
When going from one stance to another we always pivot on the balls of our feet never our heels. 
Full salute , Paul

If you lose dont lose the lesson


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## paul hutterer (Jan 23, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Kirk _
> *Do you transition from a right neutral bow to a right forward bow
> while executing a punch? *


You change to a lunge stance from a neutral bow when punching with your back arm . This is so you can gain valuable distance with your back arm and generate power from the rotation of your body. All without having to step drag closer to your attacker. The lunge stance could possibly look similar to a forward bow if not done correctly. This could be where someone could be thinking that we transition from a neutral bow to a forward bow.
Full salute Paul
Unlock the power that is YOU!!!!


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## Kirk (Jan 23, 2003)

Paul,
Often I type the way I talk.  It's rare in my experiences for people
to misinterpret me when I talk, but it happens OFTEN when I
type.  

Like I said, I looked into this system, and still considering it, and
I have nothing bad to say about it at all.  In my school, if you're
in a right neutral bow, and execute a left straight punch, we
transition from a rt neutral bow into a right forward bow.  I'm told
that it's the torquing power principle.  When we do stance work
in school, in the stance set I learned, and while executing a 
punch as I described, while transitioning from a right neutral bow
into a forward bow, we move *only* the back foot (on the
ball of the foot), and boom, you're in a forward bow.

On the IKCA orange belt tape, while transitioning from a neutral
bow, into a forward bow ... all persons on the tape moved *both* 
feet, on the balls of each foot.   

The reverse is true as well, while transitioning from a forward 
bow, back into a neutral bow, the IKCA moves on the balls of
*both* feet.

I'm not saying either way is better, but I do have my own 
preference.  And I don't see an answer for myself, in pursuing
both arts, as much as I'd like to.


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## WilliamTLear (Jan 24, 2003)

Let me first say that I have seen one very good IKCA practitioner, and he doesn't move both feet when executing his forward bow, and yes... WARRIOR SAGE has excellent basics. I love training with him, mainly because he is one hell of a nice guy.

I don't know how the IKCA teaches the forward bow, but I do know how the forward bow is taught in the Pasadena Studio, Frank Trejo's Garage, Larry Tatum's Studio, Bryan Hawkins' Studio, the infinite insights, and the sophisticated basics videos (both of which were produced by Mr. Parker).

The forward bow, when executed as demonstrated by Mr. Parker in his American Kenpo System is effective, stable, and powerful. Let me first explain the mechanics involved in it's execution.

1. From your neutral bow, assuming that you are doing it correctly, you turn your back foot (and only your back foot) so that your toes are facing 12:00, and straighten your back leg (locking it out at the knee).

2. Maintain the position of your front foot so that your front toes are at a 45 degree angle to your center line, and shift your weight so that 60% of your weight is on your lead leg and 40% of your weight is on the back one.

There are a couple of advantages to maintaining the position of your lead leg. The first benefit is an automatic positional check. Your front knee is covering your groin against an incidental strike from your attacker's lead leg. Second, it offers lateral stability. Even though it is temporary, and a minor difference at best... every little bit counts in a fight (Why wouldn't you want to maximize the effectiveness of your stance?) The third benefit is that it limits the rotation of your hips and keeps a practitioner from over rotating while executing this stance. Over rotation causes several things to happen, including loss of power, loss of stability, and loss of correct body alignment (all of which decrease the effectiveness of this stance in a fight).

These are my views, although shared by many... I hope it helps to clarify my position a little bit.

Sincerely,
Billy Lear, UKS :asian:


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## kenpo3631 (Jan 24, 2003)

> _Originally posted by WilliamTLear _
> *Moving the front foot when transitioning into a forward bow also destroys the stability of your stance.
> 
> Sincerely,
> Billy Lear, UKS *



Yeah what he said:iws: ...:rofl: 

Moving the front foot removes your bracing angle.


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## WilliamTLear (Jan 24, 2003)

> _Originally posted by kenpo3631 _
> *Yeah what he said:iws: ...:rofl:
> 
> Moving the front foot removes your bracing angle. *



(In my best godfather impersonation) You know...  :shrug: I'll take that as a compliment, but you call me stupid one more time, and you'll be taken the dirt nap. :moon: 

Ha Ha Ha,
Billy Lear, UKS :rofl:


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## paul hutterer (Jan 24, 2003)

> _Originally posted by WilliamTLear _
> *Let me first say that I have seen one very good IKCA practitioner, and he doesn't move both feet when executing his forward bow, and yes... WARRIOR SAGE has excellent basics. I love training with him, mainly because he is one hell of a nice guy.
> 
> I don't know how the IKCA teaches the forward bow, but I do know how the forward bow is taught in the Pasadena Studio, Frank Trejo's Garage, Larry Tatum's Studio, Bryan Hawkins' Studio, the infinite insights, and the sophisticated basics videos (both of which were produced by Mr. Parker).
> ...


That is exactly the way we do a forward bow except for the front foot. The reason we pivot the front foot is so it is out of the way for a rear leg ball kick. If your front foot is at a 45 it would be very difficult to do a ball kick off of a forward bow without pivoting your front foot .
Full salute Paul
Attitude is everything!!!!!


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## jazkiljok (Jan 24, 2003)

> _Originally posted by paul hutterer _
> *That is exactly the way we do a forward bow except for the front foot. The reason we pivot the front foot is so it is out of the way for a rear leg ball kick. If your front foot is at a 45 it would be very difficult to do a ball kick off of a forward bow without pivoting your front foot .
> Full salute Paul
> Attitude is everything!!!!! *



thank you as well for your response- i am of the experience and opinion that the forward bow with the front foot turn turned straight like the rear foot, is a poor stance that lacks stability and reduces greatly the effectiveness of any tek it's used in (the various specific reasons already expressed by a few others here).

i've never known pivoting the front foot when executing the rear front kick to be a problem. 

but that's just me i guess 


peace:asian: 


Jaz K.


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## WilliamTLear (Jan 24, 2003)

> _Originally posted by jazkiljok _
> *thank you as well for your response- i am of the experience and opinion that the forward bow with the front foot turn turned straight like the rear foot, is a poor stance that lacks stability and reduces greatly the effectiveness of any tek it's used in (the various specific reasons already expressed by a few others here).
> 
> i've never known pivoting the front foot when executing the rear front kick to be a problem.
> ...



There are exceptions to the rule... and I don't have a problem with turning the front foot out when executing a kick with the rear leg either. I'm with you Jaz.


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## Kenpomachine (Jan 25, 2003)

> _Originally posted by WilliamTLear _
> *There are exceptions to the rule... and I don't have a problem with turning the front foot out when executing a kick with the rear leg either. I'm with you Jaz. *



I'm with you guys. But if you're doing a rear leg kick, then it's not a forward bow anymore, just my opinion.


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## WilliamTLear (Jan 25, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Kenpomachine _
> *I'm with you guys. But if you're doing a rear leg kick, then it's not a forward bow anymore, just my opinion. *



He's talking about the very transitional preperatory stance just before the kick.

Take Care,
Billy Lear, UKS :asian:


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## bdparsons (Feb 1, 2003)

On the IKCA website there is an article written by Chuck Sullivan which addresses the very topic being discussed here. To hear the rationale straight from the source here's how to get to the article:

Go to www.karateconnection.com

Click on the link "Articles" on the left hand menu

Click on the "The Fist"

The first part of the article discusses why we punch the way we do; the second part discusses the forward bow/lunge stance. Pay particular attention to GM Sullivan's closing remarks in the article. Enjoy.

Respects,
Bill Parsons


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## bdparsons (Feb 1, 2003)

Respects,
Bill Parsons


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## WilliamTLear (Feb 1, 2003)

> _Originally posted by bdparsons _
> *Respects,
> Bill Parsons *



I only have one observation at this time... I can't seem to get the file open, and I do have acrobat reader installed on my PC. Is there anyway you could post the information here?

Sincerely,
Billy Lear, UKS :asian:


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## bdparsons (Feb 1, 2003)

Don't know why it isn't opening for you. Do you have the latest version of the free Acrobat reader? If so, I'll have to come up with plan B.

Respects,
Bill Parsons


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## WilliamTLear (Feb 1, 2003)

I have the latest version... I still can't figure out why it won't open for me. Oh well...

Sincerely,
Billy Lear, UKS :asian:


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## bdparsons (Feb 2, 2003)

it won't open for you. I assume you have a high-speed connection, but if you don't the newsletters are only 1-1.5 MB, so with dial up sometimes they can take awhile.  The files seem to open OK for everyone else I've talked to. ???

Email me and maybe I can send the pdf or doc file to you as an attatchment.  Hope your training is going well.

Respects,
Bill Parsons


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## Blindside (Feb 3, 2003)

In that article on The Fist, it mentions that Mr. Sullivan saw that type of fist from a student of another martial art.  The only other art that focuses on that fist (that I know of) is Isshin-ryu, enough so that their system patch is shaped like a vertical fist, some even have the thumb indent.

Just a thought,

Lamont


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## Samurai (Feb 3, 2003)

> The only other art that focuses on that fist (that I know of) is Isshin-ryu, enough so that their system patch is shaped like a vertical fist



Other arts use this fist method.  Jeet Kune Do, and Wing Chun are two that come to mind off the top of my head.

George Dillman and the Dillman Karate International use a 3/4 turn and the thumb is over the first finger.

Thanks
Jeremy Bays


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## Jay Bell (Feb 3, 2003)

Gyokko ryu and Koto ryu also use this fist...in a different way, but it's there


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## jazkiljok (Mar 9, 2003)

> _Originally posted by paul hutterer _
> *
> When going from one stance to another we always pivot on the balls of our feet never our heels.
> *



finally got that IKCA pdf open-- please then explain this

"Unfortunately, the act of pivoting on
the balls of the feet actually takes your heels
away from the action, and in doing so brings
your torso no closer to the intended target. If
anything you loose an inch or so. Ill readily
concede, it isnt very much, but every inch makes a difference and even as small amount as it
is, its unacceptable. If you are punching north, your body shouldnt be moving south.
Everything should be moving in the same direction. ALL of your energy should be traveling in
concentric lines, toward the
target."

it seems clear that this means Mr. Sullivan OBJECTS to rotating on the balls of your feet to pivot into an Forward Bow-- or perhaps this means something else... he doesn't seem to offer an explanation of how to rotate from one stance to the other-- we're left with a final image but no "how to get there" explanation.

 any chance of clarification?

thanks:asian:


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## Kirk (Mar 9, 2003)

After going over the orange belt tape a few times, I notice that
when going from a neutral bow to a forward bow WHILE 
executing a punch, only the back foot moves.  But while going 
from a neutral bow to a forward bow, just in the stance work,
they're shifting on the balls of both feet.  Not sure why, but my
concern was only while executing a punch.  

The pdf you're speaking of confuses matters a bit.  I interpret it
the same as you do.


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## jazkiljok (Mar 10, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Kirk _
> *After going over the orange belt tape a few times, I notice that
> when going from a neutral bow to a forward bow WHILE
> executing a punch, only the back foot moves.  But while going
> ...



thanks. i'm glad it wasn't just me.

you have a tape at least to see what their doing-- are they locking their rear leg out when they rotate into a forward bow-? be interested to see how what he's advocating compares to what their really teaching.


Jaz K.
:asian:


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