# Difficult conversation, ideas?



## Jenna (Apr 24, 2012)

Objective, logical advice sought 

By way of context, I cannot stop my son from googling my medical condition on the internet and which you know is NEVER a thing to settle your mind if you are worried in the first place and so he is convinced himself somehow that my third and hopefully fingers-and-toes-crossed-with-prayer-outriders _final _ ARVC surgery on Friday will go bad despite my efforts to show him that even if he is taller and stronger than me I am still healthy and capable of putting him on the floor for Japanese tickle torture . Though some of you know well of my boy I have not spoken of him much as the prejudices of others has always taught me that pretence is best because my son he is 16 and I am 30 and that is more than plenty of reason to be quiet and pretend things are otherwise no matter how proud of him I am .  On this occasion though I am coming up short under my own wit and so I am here in the open asking for advice again.  

Because of the stupid internet he has gotten upset over what he obviously believes is some new gift for soothsaying into my future and so I said to him that if probabilities were to be believed we would all be dead of swine flu pandemics or lightning strikes or fabled buses that run you down when you go out one morning, though I think that did not help and the truth is that not every fight I can win.  And what words do you use to persuade your son he will be just fine even when his mother is not around? that is why I am shining this batlight for advice  I am conceited to think I am the only one for him.  My flatmate is my best friend she is his Godmother supposedly to look after him though she is younger than me and is more like an older sister to him and anyway she is a big airhead really.  My dad passed away some time ago so there is only me.  I have taught my son everything I know about everything even if that is probably not so much.  He is clever thankfully and but he is only young and what does he know about anything?  

Please excuse me for not being concise..  all that yabber is just for context and all I need objective and logical advice on is how does a sit down talk with any loved one about getting along without you actually begin?  I do not know how to broach this seriously without him laughing it off or me dancing around the conversation like the Erroneous Aikido Fairy  Wiser and more experienced heads if you are there, batlight is lit. Your help is sought, objective, logical help not emotive help or sympathetic help or anything else as I do not require that, thank you. And even if you have no experience, guess your best guess for me, I am unarmed for this one.. I love you all, Jxo


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## WC_lun (Apr 24, 2012)

I've had to have a similiar conversation with my wife.  It isn't easy.  I think that having it with a child might be even more difficult, as mom's are super heroes to them.   Even when they are teenagers 

I don't think there is is any one right way.  Maybe over dinner or something.  It might take some time, so don't have any other time crunches going on.  Be aware that he may not be ready to hear the things you gotta tell him.  Also be aware that he may not react as you thought he would and don't let that throw you.  The most important thing is he knows you love him and you're not going through what you're going through because its a choice.  Sorry, but that's all I got.

Good luck on the procedure and your talk.


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## Flying Crane (Apr 24, 2012)

ugh.  I don't know how to approach this other than to say, you're gonna have to be up front, direct, don't pull the punches.  Hugs, dude, I just don't know what else to tell you.

That and, it seems that whenever we have an unknown or uncertain medical condition, until it is over it takes our minds to the worst possible places.  It's the unknowing that makes it so uncomfortable.  I recently had a brain MRI, I had been having some unusual headaches and other things, it was just odd enough for my doctor to decide it was worth checking, even tho she felt strongly that the MRI would show nothing unusual.  It turned out fine, nothing wrong with my brain, but during that time I was jumping out of my skin, waiting for the results.  I was already making lists of people who would get my swords, my bows, my tomahawk, when I was dead.  Morbid, I know, but it's where the head goes in the face of this kind of thing.  And then I got the results and it was all good.

So while the build-up of this might be ugly, when it's over and everthing is good, all that worry is for nothing.  Maybe this helps, maybe it doesn't, but it's all I've got for you right now.

I'll be sending my good thoughts your way.  Come back and tell us you are OK when it's done.


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## Sukerkin (Apr 24, 2012)

A serious conversation indeed, my dear friend.  Not an easy one to broach.  Is it that you plan to allay your sons fears as to the risks or try to prepare him for what to do if the very worst should happen?  Mayhaps a mix of both is best here.

There are risks with every surgery, some worse than others.  Because I am ignorant of the surgical methods that are used for such a cardiovascular disorder I don't know the scale of risk you have to put across.  I assume that they are not ludicrously high or the surgeons would not be recommending the treatment?  Can you find a comparable risk factor in ordinary life to use as an example?  If it is in the same sort of region as being hit by a car, for example, then that will help your son put some perspective on it.

That done, the altogether more sensitive issue of how to prepare for what to do if things go so badly wrong that you are taken from us.  For a start, I shall be very angry at the god you believe in if that happens  ...

... more seriously, the trick is to get him to see that it is something he may have to face without, as he seems to have done already, falling into the trap of thinking that because something might go wrong that it will go wrong.

One thing that may be of help is to call upon the strength of the bond between you so that he recognises that he has to be strong for you as well as for himself.  I can speak from personal experience that that need for you to provide assurance that you can cope when bad things happen can be a self-fulfilling prophecy i.e. because you know that it falls to you to be strong, to ease the stress on your family, means that you become as strong as you need to be.


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## Gnarlie (Apr 24, 2012)

Hi Jenna

I wouldn't profess to have wisdom, or experience of anything like this, other than having a mother and having a male perspective.  

So for what it's worth: In your son's place, I would view myself as a young adult and would want you to tell me the truth about how you view the situation and any risks involved.  I would definitely want you to acknowledge that there is an element of risk, and not promise me that everything will be fine.  No brave face, and certainly no Aikido Fairies.  I wouldn't want you to be a super hero.  I would want to do whatever possible to help my mum cope and deal with the process.  We fellas love our mums, see, no matter what we say.  Many of us regret not saying that when we should have.

I wish you well with the conversation and the op.


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## KempoGuy06 (Apr 24, 2012)

Speaking from the side of the argument you son will be on...

Just sit down with him and tell him. At 16 kids are smart enough to know when a parent is piling on the b/s or when they are being less than 100% truthful.

He will be upset and angry and optimistic and unwilling to accept that possible future. On the other hand he will be eternally grateful that you treated him like an adult and that you took the time to sit down and explain to him that you trust him enough and believe in him enough that, even though you havent taught him everything you wanted to teach him, he will be able to make it in the world without you. 

I cant imagine what it would be like to have to sit down and tell my wife, or my future children that there is a possibility that i will have to leave them before either of us are ready. but i can tell you that the conversation from the other side of the table is just as difficult. 

Trust me when i tell you that you are not the only one that is worried or nervous about the conversation, your son is as well. Frankly speaking you would be deluding yourself to believe that your son doesnt expect the conversation is coming or even that he has wondered why its hasnt come yet.

So as for broaching the subject, do it like you would take of a bandaid. Just start the conversation. You will be glad to get it off your chest and you son will be happy that you treated him like an adult with this serious subject.

B

PS - as for what people think about the age of you and your son, i have 2 middle fingers that you can borrow should you have need of some extra ones.


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## jks9199 (Apr 24, 2012)

I see a couple of things going on with your son.  He's scared.  And he doesn't feel that he's getting all the info from you.  The first suggestion I have is to take him with you to talk to your doctor, and the surgeon (if they're not one & the same).  He's old enough that he can understand, and that he needs to feel he's getting the straight information.  Second, I think he & you need to have a chat -- probably facilitated by a professional counselor of some sort.  Choices range from ministers to social workers.  You just need someone to help the two of you air out the issues.


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## Jenna (Apr 24, 2012)

I will try and not draw this out needlessly and but I want to express my gratitude to each of you  You are all dear friends x
*@WC_Lun*, Thank you my friend, your reasoning is perfect and makes perfect sense and there are things to be taken from what you have said to me.  This is more than plenty, thank you, I am grateful x 
*@Flying_Crane*, Michael I think frankness is a sound approach.  You have made me think that perhaps I am afraid of his reaction because perhaps I do not believe I can handle my own reaction. I am so glad your scan was clear  You are right, you cannot stop your mind from eloping into the fields shouting tales of doom ha.. and but I think I am better with practicalities and have my will sorted a long time ago.  I understand how that seems morbid, to me that was the easy bit  I do not mean to be nosey and but I wonder during all that thinking did you have a conversation with your lady?  I appreciate your wisdom as ever Michael.  Thank you, I am grateful.
*@Sukerkin*, Mark you are a dear and you have given me plenty to think of and have made me smile too and that is an achievement good sir  Yes a mixture of both scenarios is probably what I had not thought of, concentrating my worries on the latter. I like your scale of risk idea. I tried something similar before though he is good at google, only google is no place for allaying medical fears as I am sure you know  Yes, too much negative thinking, that is a key you have got that one spot on I think.  And I appreciate your point about putting some of the need to cope on him that is a good idea.  Thank you again gallant knight, as always, I am indebted x 
*@Gnarlie*, thank you too my friend, you are clever to look at it like this.  I still see him as a baby even though he is a big horrible smelly one  You are right, I think he would want to help.  I just like to be the one who does everything.  I am sure your mum is exactly the same with you, yes? It is the idea of separation you see, how do you think your mum felt when you went away.  She is pleased for you and but she just wanted to keep you forever.. ah.. that is a hard pill to swallow.. Yes, you are right some of us never suited capes I think  Hey thank you again, it is good for me to hear, I am obliged to you.
*@KempoGuy06*, dear B, ah thank you my friend for your understanding, my dad would have been the one to give those middle fingers just exactly as you have offered  He was a silly billy too.  Thank you for saying.  You cannot know quite what that means.. Yes you are right about bs and fibbing.. though it is done with only love I promise and but you are correct, I should not be doing it at all.  He would not appreciate it in the long run as you suggest. Strange, I have always subscribed to bandaid theory.  I think in this case it is different as it seems as though I am pulling that bandaid off of someone else not myself if you follow. Though I think the same principle applies, yes that is true. Thank you again for such a thoughtful and objective reply.  You have my gratitude x
*@jks9199*, my friend, you have seen through my flimsy defence as always, no you are right he is not getting all the information because I am caught between being tough for him and being open with him and it is a task to be both. Thank you for these practical suggestions.  I had not considered talking through an intermediary.  Yes, the minister spoke with him privately and I do not know the advice given though now he vacillates between presenting me with more from his dossier of google&#8217;s doomsday scenario &#8220;evidence&#8221; or his latest comeback when I asked for a talk was to brush me off by quoting at me the demise of Captain Oates and he says to me, I am going outside and may be some time, pffft.. I appreciate you taking the time to reply in such practical terms.  That is exactly spot on what I am looking for.  You know I am always grateful and in your debt x


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## granfire (Apr 24, 2012)

I have not read all replies.

And I was not around when my sister fell sick and passed. Her daughter was 7 at the time. 

No, we don't want to hear about the mortality of our parents. And it really does not matter how old or young we are.

But we have grown accustomed to our sanitary life, people don't die. 

Well, they do, but it's not part of life anymore.

I don't know how your spiritual context looks. It could help to give comfort and explain things.

but I am a firm believer in straight talk. 

Have a sitdown with him. Talk, ask questions, be honest.

yes, he might not react in a way you expect or hope. But he will listen. 

Also, make sure the 'just in case' scenarios are cleared, the worst case scenario covered.

At 16 (man I hope my own devil spawn makes it til then ) is far from being a child that needs to be cuddled, though not quiet old enough to be on his own yet.
Although we do tend to miss the transition from kid to young adult as parent...

However, he will worry. He loves you. he did what reasonable people do: research the problem....

Somewhat the situation reminds me of last December, when I found a lump in my breast...my husband talked to _everybody _under the sun! :lol: it annoyed me, but he was scared to death and it was his way of coping.
it was a cyst btw, so no worries needed.


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## Jenna (Apr 24, 2012)

Dear Granfire, you are just lovely as always thank you for laying this out so openly and so honestly.  You are brave and I am grateful to you.  You have been through horrible things and maybe you do not know you are a role model for others.  I remember the Hagakure said to meditate upon inevitable death.  I do not like that idea.  I am not a samurai.  And can I ask please when you found that cyst and did not know what was what while you were waiting for results did you feel inclined to sort out your family first and make sure they were ok or no? And did you find anything to console your husband worrying?  And who did he talk to experts or just other people? Thank you again.  I like your idea of straight talk.  I am usually right with you on that only I cannot bring myself to and end up deflecting everything. And you have captured him correctly he is neither one thing nor another though he is my baby no matter what and I am trying to protect him.  I have never let him down over anything.  Anyway.. I will stop before I go off on one.  I am very grateful indeed for such objective advice and considerate relating of your situation.  And I am still listening to Frozen.


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## Steve (Apr 24, 2012)

I guess I have a little bit different opinion than everyone else, but first, I want to say that however you handle it will be right.  This is an intensely personal and difficult situation, and nobody knows your son or his needs better than you.  

With that, this is only how I might handle it, which might not be right for you.  I agree that telling the truth is important.  But I will say that a 16 year old sees himself as an adult, but he is not one.  Now, your son sounds like a smart, mature young person, but there is a difference between telling him what he needs to hear (ie, only what truth he is ready for) and unloading on him.  In the first case, you are taking care of his needs.  In the second, unloading all the truth at once, you are, IMO, taking care of your needs.  In other words, he is worried about you, and if the goal is to ease his mind and help him worry less, more information might be the last thing he needs.  I'd argue that too much information is already the problem and that he needs to hear from you that you love him and that, while there is risk, you have absolutely no intention of going anywhere any time soon.  Bottom line is that information can be beneficial, but it can also be an unnecessary burden. 

If you haven't already, I'd make sure that his future is provided for, and that you have a plan, and I would share with him only what he needs to know about it in order to feel like he's informed.  I wouldn't go into extreme detail about it, giving him the impression that you expect to die.  Part of being an adult is being able to distinguish between being prepared for something and expecting something.  The distinction would likely be lost for a worried, caring, empathetic 16 year old son.  

I would also make a point of talking about long term plans.  In other words, talk about what you guys will be doing next Summer.  Even further... casual references to having grandkids some day.  Whatever works for you.  Again, be truthful, but make sure he knows that you are looking forward to being with him for years to come and fully expect to do so.  In your casual discussions, let him know that you see yourself as being around for a long time to come.  It will resonate, if you're sincere and be much more effective than just saying, "Hey, I don't intend to leave you any time soon."


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## Flying Crane (Apr 24, 2012)

Jenna said:


> *@Flying_Crane*, Michael I think frankness is a sound approach. You have made me think that perhaps I am afraid of his reaction because perhaps I do not believe I can handle my own reaction. I am so glad your scan was clear  You are right, you cannot stop your mind from eloping into the fields shouting tales of doom ha.. and but I think I am better with practicalities and have my will sorted a long time ago. I understand how that seems morbid, to me that was the easy bit  I do not mean to be nosey and but I wonder during all that thinking did you have a conversation with your lady? I appreciate your wisdom as ever Michael. Thank you, I am grateful.



yeah, it helps a lot to have someone with you during the ordeal.  We honestly did not believe there would be any bad news, but when you open the door to the possibility and then have a delay in getting the news, you can't help but find yourself in a dark place.  I think that I did not fully realize how much it affected me until after I met with my doctor to discuss the results, and the stacked up adrenaline finally left my body.  Then I just had an emotional meltdown for a bit.


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## granfire (Apr 24, 2012)

Jenna said:


> Dear Granfire, you are just lovely as always thank you for laying this out so openly and so honestly.  You are brave and I am grateful to you.  You have been through horrible things and maybe you do not know you are a role model for others.  I remember the Hagakure said to meditate upon inevitable death.  I do not like that idea.  I am not a samurai.  And can I ask please when you found that cyst and did not know what was what while you were waiting for results did you feel inclined to sort out your family first and make sure they were ok or no? And did you find anything to console your husband worrying?  And who did he talk to experts or just other people? Thank you again.  I like your idea of straight talk.  I am usually right with you on that only I cannot bring myself to and end up deflecting everything. And you have captured him correctly he is neither one thing nor another though he is my baby no matter what and I am trying to protect him.  I have never let him down over anything.  Anyway.. I will stop before I go off on one.  I am very grateful indeed for such objective advice and considerate relating of your situation.  And I am still listening to Frozen.



I think I hinted around that my sister died of cancer, breast cancer to be precise, so naturally I was scared at first, too.
However, I might not be a Samurai, I am a warrior at heart. I don't seek out confrontation, but I mean to see it through. I took a bit to let the emotions wash over my, to feel the fear and worries, a bit of sadness.
Then I looked at all that was yet to be done. 
So, I came to the conclusion that win, lose or draw, this challenge would be met. 
Maybe it was meditation, though I did not sit still and stare into nothing. 

There is no right time to be sick, have surgery or die. 
or talk about it. Get a big box of tissues. You will need it. But that is good.

Just the other day a lady told me that one of her favorite hymns in church is 'tears are a language only God understands' or was it a prayer, not sure, I don't do organized religion. She said it was a childhood favorite, long before she learned that the chemical composition of tears differs depending on the reason we cry.

I have heard about a similar discovery many years ago.
So, allow yourself a good cry, it purifies the body  

A little long winded. I am sorry.

But essentially, tell him from the heart, you will be alright!


(BTW, I let my husband do his thing....I was in no mood to touch the subject of my boob being on all prayer lists around the county. I felt like strangling him! )


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## Rich Parsons (Apr 24, 2012)

Jenna said:


> Objective, logical advice sought
> 
> By way of context, I cannot stop my son from googling my medical condition on the internet and which you know is NEVER a thing to settle your mind if you are worried in the first place and so he is convinced himself somehow that my third and hopefully fingers-and-toes-crossed-with-prayer-outriders _final _ ARVC surgery on Friday will go bad despite my efforts to show him that even if he is taller and stronger than me I am still healthy and capable of putting him on the floor for Japanese tickle torture . Though some of you know well of my boy I have not spoken of him much as the prejudices of others has always taught me that pretence is best because my son he is 16 and I am 30 and that is more than plenty of reason to be quiet and pretend things are otherwise no matter how proud of him I am . On this occasion though I am coming up short under my own wit and so I am here in the open asking for advice again.
> 
> ...



Jenna,

When I was 14 my mom was diagnosed with cancer and we told she had maybe 3 months. Three and half year later of long fights she could not take it anymore and gave up. Which was good for her as she was no longer in pain. 

My dad did not want to loose his wife and was upset. My brother denied it and was hurt whenever anyone talked about the situation. 

I talked with nurses and doctors and asked questions. Yes I was concerned. Yes I was worried. But I needed data. So I asked for it. Most tried to ignore me. I would explain usualy in the hallway to a doctor, that my dad is out of it, my younger brother is worse, and you want to keep the bad news from her, but want someone to understand. I am that person, I told him. 

Is your son not only worried about you, but also worried about himself? As one can inherit the condition you have described. 

You could start with that conversation. Ask him if he is worried about himself as well. Point out how he does not have the symptoms as you do. Make him understand that he is ok, and then talk to him about yourself. Be honest. Tell him what you think. When people are scared and concerned about loved ones they want to know they are not being lied too. They want to know the truth. If there is a risk explain it to him. But not offhanded, just a statement of fact. 


If your son is just too upset to discuss it, then ask him why does he feel this way? Is it the sense of loss (* Normal and healthy *)? 


If your son is not worried about himself and does not respond with data or questions and being honest. Then just be honest, and let him know that you love and care for him and look forward to see him later in the day on Friday. 

I have found in cases like this everyone reacts differently and there is no exact answer. 


I hope this helps.


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## shesulsa (Apr 24, 2012)

Jenna,

Best wishes to you for your upcoming surgery. You're a fighter, straight and true, and I have little doubt you will fly through this. If you'll allow me this one concession, I'd like to say I respect you muchly here - you have an incredible head on your shoulders. What a mom you must be!

To each their own style of broaching this subject - I too tend to be forthwith and honest. There is very little point in obscuring the matter - he clearly knows what there is to know about the possibilities.

I think I would start by *asking him* what he would do, from whom he would seek advice, how he would go about learning to take care of himself or whom to notify, etcetera.  Allow him to take the conversation wherever he likes.  This should give you a good feel of where he's at in being prepared.  He may not be prepared at all.  If that's the case, you'll need to point him where to go and what to do.  A just-in-case video might do, etcetera. But let his own benchmark be your guide.

And you will need to know that he will not be 16 forever even should the worst happen. He *will* grow and he *will* learn and he *will NOT* ever forget you nor all that you have taught him. If he has taken it upon himself to investigate your condition without your supervision, he is smart enough to investigate what to do about things in life, seek help when he needs it.  He will be okay.

Ah! I'd like to hug you now, even if you'd punch me for it! :lol2:


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## Gemini (Apr 24, 2012)

Jenna said:


> Objective, logical advice sought
> 
> By way of context, I cannot stop my son from googling my medical condition on the internet and which you know is NEVER a thing to settle your mind if you are worried in the first place and so he is convinced himself somehow that my third and hopefully fingers-and-toes-crossed-with-prayer-outriders _final _ ARVC surgery on Friday will go bad despite my efforts to show him that even if he is taller and stronger than me I am still healthy and capable of putting him on the floor for Japanese tickle torture . Though some of you know well of my boy I have not spoken of him much as the prejudices of others has always taught me that pretence is best because my son he is 16 and I am 30 and that is more than plenty of reason to be quiet and pretend things are otherwise no matter how proud of him I am .  On this occasion though I am coming up short under my own wit and so I am here in the open asking for advice again.
> 
> ...


What what I know of ARVC, your son has figured out that you, requiring surgery, are on the more severe cases of this. While I can appreciate you wanting to play it down, it sounds like he knows the risk is greater than you're letting on, which in turn, will cause distrust. Being known as a direct individual, I don't think it's fair for me to even try to put myself in your shoes, but I would be careful about playing it down too far. Just from what you've written about him, he sounds pretty smart. I think for anyone to tell you you're not in a tough situation would be doing you a disservice, but at the same time, I don't believe that for every problem, there's not a solution. First, I would also make it clear that the procedure itself is considered low risk if there is such a thing for open heart. Then, as unpleasant as it is, I think it's in yours, and especially his, best interest to identify a forward looking plan should things not go well. You mentioned it's only you. Do you have relatives? Maybe his father? It's important that he know who ALL the players are and what role they'll play. Do they know? Does it concern him that this is genetic? What finances will be available to him and who will handle them. What long term goals does he have/ means of obtaining those goals? I don't want any answers to these. I just want you to have them. Then I'll talk to you Saturday.  (hugs)


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## K-man (Apr 24, 2012)

Jenna, you have just punched me below the belt.   You are one of my oldest friends on MT and this news is like a bolt from the blue.  I will be thinking of you Friday and you have my very best wishes.  

I can't really add to the fantastic posts above other to say, sit down with your son, have a big cuddle with him and tell him that you have been in twice before and this will be no different. Ask him about the things he has found on the Internet and what is concerning him.  Obviously, he will be worried out of his mind and looking on the worst side. Just have a frank discussion and be prepared to get stuck into the tissues.

Best wishes my friend. I'll be waiting for you when you're back, fit and well, after your op.    XOXO


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## Carol (Apr 24, 2012)

Jenna, you've gotten some really good advice here.

The only thing I'll add, having been through heart surgery myself....after surgery (and the appropriate recovery/rehab) you *feel better*. 

As scary as heart surgery sounds, it has advanced a lot over the years, it has even advanced since I had mine in 2000.  The heart impacts everything in your body, get the heart working better and all of you will be feeling better.  All the medical mumbo jumbo can talk about facts while glossing over _*the patient can feel better and live a better life afterwards*_.

All my good thoughts and prayers will be with you.  You're a fighter and you will be victorious.


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## seasoned (Apr 24, 2012)

Jenna, You are a strong lady, and I know this from reading your thoughts and talking with you. Without knowing you personally, I respect you very much, and know in my heart, that you will be completely up front with your son, and I feel that this is the way he would want it to be. There is really nothing I can add to what has already been said, but the fact that I consider you a friend, and first and foremost I will be praying for your words, you will be speaking to your son. 

The stronger you are, the stronger he will be, but hold nothing back as you talk to him from you're heart. There is no prearranged thought you can give him, just honest words. What ever the outcome, this sit down will be with him the rest of his life.  God bless, and I will be talking with you for many more years here on MT. 

Your friend Wes  xxoxo


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## ballen0351 (Apr 24, 2012)

Ill be saying a prayer for you and yo will be in my thoughts.
I cant add any good advise for I have never been in your or your sons shoes.  I can only tell you that I would try to be as honest and upfront with him as your comfortable doing.  If hes already googled it he knows the worst case so your not going to tell him anything he did not already read.  He loves you and hes worried so your best bet is to just love him back which I can tell you do very much just by your post.
My kids are young but they have asked me before if I will Die at work usually after some news report about a police officer killed in the line of duty.  They best answer I can give them is Sometimes bad things happen to good people but I will make you a promise I will fight as hard as I can to come back to you and if I cant just remember I love you more then anything I kiss them and  thats normally god enough for them but like I said they are young.


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## Tames D (Apr 24, 2012)

Jenna,
I believe in my heart that you will be better than ever after your surgery. Take your son in your arms and tell him that you love him. Tell him the truth as you know it and treat him like the man that he is becoming. He'll not only respect you for it but he will love you more for it. 
You guys need each other.


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## Jenna (Apr 25, 2012)

Oh my goodness thank you all for taking your time to present your thoughts.  I am more grateful than you would know.  THank youall again, I do not like drawing this out any more and but I do not like either leaving these without reply if only to say thank youso forgive me for taking up space unnecessarily it is just to say thank you..

*@Steve*, thank you for your rationality, it is very welcome.  You have made a very clear analysis which I appreciate because clarity and people to provide a clear lens that is what I am lacking so thank you very much for this. Practically and legally yes, I am necessarily well prepared a long time ago. All your advice I am heeding it is like rubbing mist off of a window, I think this is why you are such a wonderful dad to your children.. thankyou xox
*@Flying Crane*, Michael, thank you for letting me understand how this went for you, yes you retained all that internally until it was over, this I understand.  I think when you are in the fight as it is perceived by your body, all non relevant things are faded out.  For the fight I am good, for handling emotive things at the same time I am not so good and am here for advice in place of not having a clear head. I cannot decide if that is selfish or if I am just doing what is best. I am always grateful for your wisdom.
*@Granfire*, there are many comparisons you have given me to think of. And no you are not longwinded, it is all fuel in the tank for me and thank you for not being soft and for being clear thinking that is just what is needed. I understand your view of religion and I am ok with mine also and but I am happy that whatever happens to me happens to me and that is that only it is not me I am worried about and then I cannot see how him being without me is the best thing in the big plan as I imagine you know more than well with your sister. I imagine it because I can feel it between you still.  Tissues yes, you are telling me what I have to do and how it is going to be.  You are right, tissues, yes.  Thankyou my dear friend, I am grateful to you xxx
*@Rich*, I remember you told me of your mom and how you acted I think is exactly how the boy is acting and I think that is showing me up for someone who is keeping him ignorant and that is the last thing I would want to do so thank you for drawing my attention to this.. it is not easy to see these things sometimes.  No he has been tested when he was younger and has not inherited my faulty codes thank you for thinking of that.  Be honest, yes that is it.  I think being honest can mean  not leaving things out also.  You are right as always.  Thank you my friend, it does help yes! I am in your debt, Jxo
*@Shesulsa*, you are a silly moo, I would not exchange a hug for a punch I would just not let go very easily at the minute and you would be tapping your foot and saying, hey ok enough already leave off I have my work to get to haha.. And anyway you are just another one who does not always acknowledge that she is a role model for someone else.. Me!  Yes he knows possibilities only he is like a politician and uses figures to suit his own picture of the future and the closer it gets, the more evidence he has.  I think he is very angry at me which is breaking my heart because I am angry at myself.. if he would fight me I would know what to do, and worse, I have taught him all my aiki and now emotionally he is unassailable if anyone tries to break into him and but I need him to let me in and yet I do not want to get in because his anger and worry is my fault in the first place pffft.. A just-in-case video wow yes I had not thought of that.  I think in terms of who he would go to, I have always tried to provide him with decent male role models yes, he has people and he will not go wanting for money I had told him that it is just when I mention these things he either gets annoyed and will shout at me or tell me to keep my money which is not like him or he will just laugh or say whatever. You have got me to think about acting rather than thinking.. I think too much.  I can see why you make such a wonderful mother you are to your son. I would have wished for a mother like you xxx
*@Gemini*, thank you for this, yes risks are risks, everything is a risk I had a friend at work lose his thumb on an engine lift. It is not me playing it down it is him formulating his own thing from what he reads on the stupid internet and he is not an expert to be reading these things some of them I know are medical journal abstracts and sometimes a little information can be more dangerous than no information, is this not so? Yes a plan for the future you are exactly right yes only I cannot get him to sit down with me it is worse than asking him about his girlfriend or about his sex ed.. it is worse than that because he is angry with me too.  Money is fine yes, I have taken care of that and he has money for going to university because he wants to study physics I do not know what he will become. I know he will be fine with Katie she is my best friend and Godmother and there have been the three of us since the start, I just have been unable to assure him of that because he will not allow me to talk to him about it. I appreciate your taking time to put this down.  I can trust you to make sense, thank you! xox
*@K-Man*, haha no I would not punch you anywhere Russ, punching you Goju people only hurts the fist so it is ill advised  Yes you are right also, a big cuddle would be wonderful though I can only manage that nowadays if I apply an ikkyo on him. I think if I ask him for a cuddle it might work, perhaps that is a way to get him to speak with me.. thank you, that is a good suggestion, I like that.  Thank you dear Russ, I am grateful for your wisdom xox
*@Carol*, you are absolutely right Carol and I know you have your own horrible experience of this and then so you know what is what.  I hate and despise this condition with all that is in me and I would never lie down for it and that is my quote that I read and put in my signature.  I say, go bleep yourself you are not having me. This is the third time they have done the mri and produced all their mappings for lasering me and they say no more after this. If it was me in the garage I would stop tinkering with the part and replace it as it is beyond repair and is risking the whole motor.  Parts are rare.  I am an old model haha.  So I am all set I am not afraid of nobody it is just not me I am worried over. I am grateful for your thoughts and prayers Carol and if they are transferrable I would pass them to the boy.  Thank you you are a strong woman always xxx
*@seasoned*, Wes, thank you, the courtesy you have extended me is more than appreciated. You are telling me honesty also.  Sometimes it is hard to be completely honest and not leave out bits because of how that hurts someone you are being honest with.  Yes I am sure you understand this. I think that is a reflection of my weakness.  I am grateful for your thoughts and prayers for the boy.  You are a good man and your family are lucky to have you xox
*@ballen0351*, thank you my friend, honesty yes I am hearing that loud and clear from all you good people.  You do a dangerous job.  You are in my position of risk and but you put yourself there voluntarily every day.  Your children have a brave father who does a noble job. And you are right, children even if they look big or tough are still children and need what children need.  Thank you for reminding me of this also.  It is easy to get distracted at the periphery and miss the centre.  You will do well with your aiki  I am grateful for your words, thank you xox
*@Tames D*, ah my friend you are the one to make me cry,, ha.. yes.. we need each other that is it.. goodness that has reallybrought it on here.  He is my whole entire life and I miss having my son inmy arms since he is so big.. Thank you.  I will see what happens from that you are a good and clever person for this xox


Pffft..  I have had my cry and I am resolved.  Thank you all from the bottom of my stupid juddering heart, mille bisous xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## frank raud (Apr 25, 2012)

I had that kind of conversation with my kids when they were 10 and 12. It was after a heart attack, not before surgery. I am going in for surgery to repair a deviated septum and have spoken to my kids about it as well. The heart attack was a surprise, the nasal surgery is something we have discussed for a long time. I would sugest telling your son about your condition and your surgery, answering his questions as honestly as you can. It will be a scary thing for him, but treating him as an adult in this situation with help him through it, which will help YOU through it.


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## Chris Parker (Apr 25, 2012)

My dearest J, 

You know my take on this.

He's worried, as he loves you. He's unsure of what the details are, as the previous surgeries have been when he was younger, and this time he's a lot more aware of what is really going on. This has lead him to do more research this time, which has gotten him worried, as it's quite a scary thing.

He's loyal to you, as he loves you. He wants to protect you and guard you, and is feeling powerless to do so. So he's trying to arm himself with knowledge about what you're about to go through (hell, I did the same thing when you had similar surgery a few years back, for much the same reasons!)

You are a strong, self-reliant individual (through experience and need, as much as personality, my lady). You cannot shield him from reality, all you can do is show him strength as an example, and allow him to show similar. Let him know that you need him as well, as you love him. Let him know that you want to protect him from such things, but sometimes all you can do is trust, have faith in the skill and care of those around you, and face things with the strength you both possess.

Don't stifle his reading, but perhaps do it together. Let him ask questions, but don't be scared if you don't have the answers. 

The two of you are dedicated to each other, and that is where this gets hard, as you're both trying to protect each other. That's wonderful, and shows that the bond is strong and deep. Let him worry, as it's his way of protecting you. All you can do there is reassure him as best you can, and answer any question he has as best you can. Protecting him here by hiding information isn't what he needs, or what you need. Neither of you are going through this alone. And, as you would expect, I'm going to suggest you ask K as well... she's watching both of you at the moment, and has watched you for a number of years, so she's the best to say which advice is the best for you both. Listen to her.

Now, my lady, to you.

There is far more than just your fingers crossed that this is your last surgery, you realize! You have the collective wishes and love of this board, and more besides. 

Anything you need or desire, you have but to ask.

As ever, and always.


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## oftheherd1 (Apr 25, 2012)

What to say?  For sure nobody wants to talk about impending death of a loved one.  At your son's age it is probably more discomforting than to adults, and adults don't always handle it well.

It appears to be a fairly straight forward treatment.  I guess you are undergoing the procedure as the althernatives are worse?  Have you explained that to your son?

I like the ideas above to let him understand you aren't planning on leaving him.  That may bolster his confidence.  Also, if true, let him know that after a succesful operation, you will be healtier and stronger than without it.  I know that is true of heart bypass.  I experienced it.  I was becoming constantly run down and tired, and short of breath; until after the bypass surgery.  Suddenly my heart was getting the oxygen it needed and I felt much better.  I hope that will be the case for you as well.

Other than that, I think you are sort of on your own.  You know your son and we don't.  We can provide ideas, and some have taken the time to do so.  But only you can evaluate what is likely to work best.  Good luck with it.  You and your son will be in my prayers.


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## KempoGuy06 (Apr 25, 2012)

Jenna said:


> I will try and not draw this out needlessly and but I want to express my gratitude to each of you  You are all dear friends x
> *@KempoGuy06*, dear B, ah thank you my friend for your understanding, my dad would have been the one to give those middle fingers just exactly as you have offered  He was a silly billy too.  Thank you for saying.  You cannot know quite what that means.. Yes you are right about bs and fibbing.. though it is done with only love I promise and but you are correct, I should not be doing it at all.  He would not appreciate it in the long run as you suggest. Strange, I have always subscribed to bandaid theory.  I think in this case it is different as it seems as though I am pulling that bandaid off of someone else not myself if you follow. Though I think the same principle applies, yes that is true. Thank you again for such a thoughtful and objective reply.  You have my gratitude x



You are welcome.

In my short time on this planted i have come to learn that not everyone is going to like me (obviously), but i have also learned that what other people think is really not all that important. The only opinion that matters is my own. If i am happy and content with what i have done and where i am in life than that is all that matters. Obviously there are arguments to this statement and blah blah whatever. You get the point, be happy with yourself and strive to be the best person you can/want to be and life will be fine.

The bandaid theory is a good one and i understand you apprehension when it comes to your son, that is normal. You want to protect him from anything and everything that will harm him whether it be physical, mental or emotional pain. Im sure that is what being a parent is all about. The downside is that you cant protect him from everything and the worst part about it is that you shouldn't. Learning to deal with those pains is what helps us grow and shapes who we are to become. None the less im sure it is very hard and emotionally taxing and no amount of words i can use will help to dampen that pain.

With that, I wish you the best. The choice is yours and yours alone and i cant make that decision for. I point back to what i say earlier, do what YOU feel is best and make sure that you can live with that decision. Right or wrong in the eyes of other makes no matter, if you are happy with your choice, than that is what matters

B


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## Jenna (Apr 25, 2012)

Thank you all, I appreciate every word and I am soooooooooo grateful for your straight dope and no BS like this and so forgive me that I keep replying I am just trying to say thank you!!! and let you know that I am paying attention and your words mean something, quite a lot 

*@frank raud*, Frank thank you for allowing me to know of your situation. I think that would have been very difficult for your children who did not know any better what was happening to poor dad. I had a boxing friend that suffered a deviated septum (among other mishaps) and when he got it fixed up his stayability was even better than before, he always said because his nose was softer he felt less if he was ever clocked there though I do not know if that is true.  It will help your breathing greatly, this I know.  I wish you well and thank you so much for your advice, welcome as always my friend 
*@Chris Parker*, Christopher, what can I say you are lovely and you know how the things are. And thank you for your advice though I cannot talk with Katie properly because even as the medical qualified one she gives me the facts then I will end up having to be the one to reassure her because she is just nothing more than a big kid too most times. We are horribly dysfunctional you know  Yes, you are right, he is protective only this is one he cannot protect me against because he cannot get a hold of it only that is not the thing, he is too young and headstrong to understand that all fights cannot be fought except the fight with oneself.  That is the only one that cannot be walked away from.  I am not the one who needs protection.  It is him.  Thank you for being clearheaded.  The gift of clarity.  One day I will possess it too, then you will all be in trouble I tell you  Jxxx
*@oftheherd*, thank you my friend for putting these points so well  My son is more than aware of what is what, yes and the remaining alternative is transplant.  I like your positive outlook and I am so glad that you are feeling healthier after such a major op. You are made of resilient stuff for sure  Yes, I am on my own, that is the deal and so straight talk is what I am after for how to deal with a young man who has the conceit of teenage telling him that he has the whole world figured out and can see into my future.  I am grateful, you are a decent person to take the time to post here, thank you again my friend.  Do you know any verses that come to mind or anything?  xox
*@@KempoGuy06*, dear B, yes I am like you with the blah blah, sometimes it is nice to have a person to say, hey you there, you are right! bleep them all if they are casting aspersions, their opinion is of no import. I am grateful to you for doing this even if it is from afar, means a lot  Hey you are one to make me think.  You are correct and I am torn because I do what any parent does to protect their babies because he is my whole life and yet I must step away from his corner and allow life to rough him up because it is for his own good.  I do not like this one bit, fact I hate it.  Yet I know it is the right thing.  It is hard and but it is right.  You have made me think straight and I will remember you favourably for this.  Thank you xox


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## KempoGuy06 (Apr 25, 2012)

Jenna said:


> Thank you all, I appreciate every word and I am soooooooooo grateful for your straight dope and no BS like this and so forgive me that I keep replying I am just trying to say thank you!!! and let you know that I am paying attention and your words mean something, quite a lot
> 
> *@@KempoGuy06*, dear B, yes I am like you with the blah blah, sometimes it is nice to have a person to say, hey you there, you are right! bleep them all if they are casting aspersions, their opinion is of no import. I am grateful to you for doing this even if it is from afar, means a lot  Hey you are one to make me think.  You are correct and I am torn because I do what any parent does to protect their babies because he is my whole life and yet I must step away from his corner and allow life to rough him up because it is for his own good.  I do not like this one bit, fact I hate it.  Yet I know it is the right thing.  It is hard and but it is right.  You have made me think straight and I will remember you favourably for this.  Thank you xox



Again no problem. This community is here for FAR more reasons than to help people learn about MA's. It supported me when i was injured and though id never train again. The least i can do is try to pay it forward. 

Let me correct you a tiny bit. In no way, at any point were you not "thinking straight". You were thinking like a mother, which by most definitions (i say *most* simply because there are nut jobs out there that say they were acting like a parent while performing unspeakable acts on children. just making sure i distance myself from them) is the right way to think. Everyone knows you first priority is to your son, no one will ever fault you for that. If they do, well im pretty sure you know what to tell them. 

You were simply not thinking objectively. How could anyone expect you to? How could anyone blame you if you didnt? Again you are a mother, i have yet to this day met a mother that has made an objective decision when it came to their son, or daughter for that matter. I would bet that statement applies even more to a father/daughter scenario. 

Keep you head up.

B


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## Brian King (Apr 26, 2012)

In the book the Noticer by Andy Andrews the main character of the book Jones is having a conversation with a man that is a worrier. It is an interesting conversation. Snip/ 


> Well, that's why smart people get tripped up with worry and fear. Worry...fear...is just a misuse of the creative imagination that has been placed in each of us. Because we are smart and creative, we imagine all the things that could happen, that might happen, that will happen if this or that happens. See what I mean?


/snip
A bit later in the conversation, he (Jones) shares a worry formula discussing the futility of worry by percentages.


> · 40% of the things we worry about will never occur.
> · 30% of the time, we worry about things that have already happened.
> · 12% of our worry is about needless imaginings about our health.
> · 10% would be petty-little-nothing worries about what people think.
> · 8%, legitimate concerns.



The legitimate concerns, according to the Jones character, 





> are things that can actually be dealt with. Then he said, Most people spend so much time fearing things that are never going to happen or cant be controlled that they have no energy to deal with the few things they can actually handle.


 It is an interesting perspective. It gives permission to worry but tries to limit that to worrying about things within our control, and that we can deal with to lesson the worry. I also like the old quip about FEAR. False Evidence Appearing Real. Some things need to worried about and addressed, others all the worrying in the world wont adjust or change. Your son is worried and has every right to be worried in my opinion. Any surgery can be dangerous and folks need to be prepared. The worry can be a call to action and that is often good as long as the worry is directed and focused where it needs to be. 

Lots of perspectives and sharing in this thread. What a great community we belong to and you are a big part of Jenna. If I can make one further suggestion. Write your son a letter, now, today-and give it to him today. *ALL* parents should do this. Yup, they are teenagers and will often be nonchalant and act like they dont care, but they will read them and hold on to them. This is NOT a if I die letter or if you are reading this it is because I am gone letter. It is some words and thoughts that they can hold onto and reread all through their life. It is I am proud of you and I love you note. It is a description of hopes and dreams from when firstborn and how that journey has progressed till now, combined with hopes and dreams of family and successes in the far future. I say that every father and mother should tell their daughter they love them and are proud of them in a written note that the child can keep with them, they should tell their sons how proud they are of them and the young men they are growing into. How their young one is becoming a needed and productive part of society. How they have already changed the world and will continue to do so. Make a habit of writing these letters at least once a year, at Christmas, birthday or some other anniversary give it to them (the first one give right away). It is important that the young one know how their parents feel about them. Written words have a different power than the spoken, a staying power. The spoken word is important and should not be neglected but nor should the written words. Jenna, you have some motivation in writing the note, but, that is a blessing perhaps. Others might put it off until tomorrow only to pass tonight, never sharing their words of praise and hope. What a gift that note can be to the youngsters. 

Good luck with the surgery Jenna. Prayers lifted and God Bless.
Warmest Regards
Brian King


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## Brian King (Apr 26, 2012)

I will add that as men we are programmed to fix things. It does not matter if 4 or 104 give us a hammer and some WD40 wrapped in Duct tape and we can fix the world. Your young man wants to fix this and cannot. That feeling of helplessness is awful and spirit robbing. Let your young man 'fix' what he can. This will be a battle and uneasy for you as you are also a fixer Jenna. It can seem weakening and scary but it does not have to be thus, it can be empowering for the both of you. 

Brian


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## shesulsa (Apr 26, 2012)

Jenna, I'll be thinking about you and praying for you and your young one until next we hear from you. Kick that problem in the *** and we will be hear cheering you on!

*Gets hi-ball glasses out and passes them around* 

Prepare yourselves for your next toast - one to victory for Jenna!


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## WC_lun (Apr 27, 2012)

I don't pray to any diety, but I'll definitley be thinking about you and wishing you well.  See you soon.


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## KempoGuy06 (Apr 27, 2012)

Good luck Jenna!! You are in my thoughts!!

B


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## bugatabugata (May 27, 2012)

Hun, he loves you and he's worried about you. (Hopefully, I'm way late to the thread and everything's honkey-dorey by now.) He'd be worried about you if you had a bad case of toe jam! You raised a boy that adores you and that's something to be proud of!


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