# Wandering and Lost- looking for an all around MA



## ralij (Dec 1, 2016)

Hello there.

So I've been involved in martial arts when I was living on campus in college and a lot when I was little (karate, tkd, aikido, and kendo) and starting to seriously consider rejoining once finances are back into order (usually the reason I had to quit in one way or another. yay for student life) I know I have awhile to go before I can get my foot into the door and be able to stay or leave of my own will, but I figured getting the information while I have the opportunity is helpful.

The first question is a matter of balance. My primary issue is that I want to do too much, I think. I want to get into martial arts but dont really want to give up the gym at the same. Are there those that have any advice that manage both? In part I really want to add to my routines as part of a daily training regimen, but likely won't be able to get to class 4x a week with a shifting work schedule depending on the time of year. I realize that this will slow down my progression, but I'm ok with that. I don't need a black belt, I just need progress. Are there particular martial arts that lend themselves well to this? 

I guess I'm also looking for a well-rounded martial art. Everything that I've seen has been highly focused while ignoring other aspects completely. Shotokan or TKD completely ignore grapples and groundwork, while those that focus on groundwork seem to largely ignore striking. Most don't seem to cover weapons at all... While I would love to join a HEMA school or traditional archery, but that just adds into the problem in question 1.

Third is a mixed bag... if I can find something that is well rounded and I dont feel too deficient in any area I am perfectly happy to find that one and stick with it forever. Failing that, are there any sort of groups that lend themselves well to cross training, like training with a particular style for a given amount of time and switching to a different one and bouncing between them? I don't really think so, but thought I'd ask.

Misc: 
I really like a progression system, such as belts, as a visual reminder of how far I've come since I started. I need these reminders to a degree. 

Contact sparring with gear is good. 

Competition is good. Having something to show for the effort is important.

I like the respect and seriousness of shotokan in some aspects. Bowing at the door and the mat, among other things, I've found really helps my focus and concentration on the tasks at hand. It has almost the same effect as clocking in at work or reading the community board at the gym does.

Not real fond of having to memorize japanese/korean/chinese names for things. It really doesn't matter what language I count in and while its a minor thing its sort of a pet peeve.

I don't buy the mysticism aspect, but I do like the 'making yourself a better person' aspect in addition to the physical training. Meditation, reflection, and the like.

Asking for all of them is impossible of course, (I presume) but would like to explore the options among those more informed than I regardless. I very much appreciate your time for reading this and replying. Thank you.


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## drop bear (Dec 1, 2016)

kudo





MMA.





Sanda.


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## Gerry Seymour (Dec 1, 2016)

My initial reaction covers a lot of conflicting answers, so I'm tossing out food for thought:

If you cross-trained between two solid arts, you can build your own complete system. I bring this up because I don't know a single art that has competition, both sides (grappling and strikes) in quantity, and uses belts but not original-language naming.
BJJ carries a lot of what you're looking for: belts, competition, and grappling. I don't know about the bowing aspects.
MMA carries a lot of what you're looking for: competition, grappling, and punches. No bowing, and no belts (in most places).
There are arts that have a lot of what you're looking for, but I think miss on a big one. NGA (my primary art), for instance, meets all but the competition requirement (mostly English, basic bowing, belts, both throws and strikes, but no competition). That last point sounds important to you, so that's not a fit.
You might look into a BJJ school or two, and cross-train in something to fill in the strikes. BJJ is not entirely devoid of strikes (and they do pay attention to the possibility when rolling), but they won't fill your desires there.


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## Gerry Seymour (Dec 1, 2016)

drop bear said:


> kudo
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm entirely unfamiliar with Kudo and mostly unfamiliar with Sanda. If Sanda uses belts and has basic rituals, that might be a good choice (I'm assuming they have strikes, but I honestly don't recall). MMA doesn't fit his desire for belts and bowing, but does fit the requirements for English and competition.


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## oaktree (Dec 1, 2016)

Most mma gyms have ground work and striking in the form of bjj Thai boxing and wrestling. You can do meditation by yourself.

Judo is another good alternative or sanda. Even Wu taijiquan may be good lots of wrestling in it. Try different things see what's in your area


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## ShortBridge (Dec 1, 2016)

I agree that you may have some conflicting priorities that are going to be tough to cover with one system.

But, I'll add krav maga and system-a to the list of things  to consider. Belts, formality and such are usually a local decision.

Let me suggest a whole different approach, though. Start turning over stones in your area looking for small, non-commercial schools and consider the style secondarily.

I took Diato-Ryu jujitsu in the 90s at a community center for about $30/mo. It's not something I would have sought out, but I loved it, the sensei was great and although I ended up in a different system, I value that training to this day. I have known a number of people who taught low key like this who were extraordinary martial artists. It would fit your money concerns and life-balance concerns and you might get better and more personal instruction.

I put a lot of pressure on myself out of college to find the perfect system and the facts are that I had to try a number of things to find what was the right fit for me. I started Wing Chun based on the off-the-grid mini warehouse and cardboard sign with not only low expectations of the style, but fairly open disdain for it. But, I realized that what I had read and been told about it was wrong...at least not universally right and it stuck with me in ways that I could have never guessed.

Looking back, my best training experiences had more to do with the instructor and the environment than the system... not that the system doesn't matter, but there are other factors that matter as much.

Just a thought, based on my own journey. Your profile doesn't say where you live, but maybe someone here could direct you if it did.


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## marques (Dec 1, 2016)

oaktree said:


> Try different things see what's in your area


This would be the first step if you're not going to learn online. _Additionally_, we can comment on what is available to you...

Otherwise, you will just discover that "the best martial art on earth" is not available in your town.


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## JR 137 (Dec 1, 2016)

gpseymour said:


> I'm entirely unfamiliar with Kudo and mostly unfamiliar with Sanda. If Sanda uses belts and has basic rituals, that might be a good choice (I'm assuming they have strikes, but I honestly don't recall). MMA doesn't fit his desire for belts and bowing, but does fit the requirements for English and competition.



Kudo is Daido Juku.  It's confusing, but I think Kudo is the competition, and Daido Juku is the art.  Regardless, it's Japanese MMA.  The founder (Takashi Azuma) was a legendary Kyokushin fighter.  He wanted to add head/face punching, grabs and throws.  He left Kyokushin and added those.  He later added chokes, ground fighting and submission.  He kept the kyu/dan system, gis, etc.  Picture what would happen if Kyokushin went MMA, and you've got Daido Juku/Kudo.  I hear it's pretty popular in Europe and Japan.


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## JR 137 (Dec 1, 2016)

Several systems/arts come to mind, but I don't know where you are and what's available, but here's a few to look into...

Kudo/Daido Juku (as mentioned)
Enshin Karate - Joko Ninomiya's blend of Kyokushin karate and judo
Ashihara Karate - Similar to Enshin; Ninomiya was Ashihara's top student before leaving
Judo

No one art/style is going to be perfect and cover every aspect of fighting to an expert level.  Even in MMA gyms, there will be areas of strength and weakness due to the instructors' expertise.  Some gyms may be better at the wrestling side of things than the submission side, or better at striking than throws.

For the most part, the teacher and students are far more important than the art.  Bad teachers are bad, regardless of the art they're teaching.  If you're training alongside a bunch of ninja turtle wannabe 10 year olds, how good can you get?   Those are extreme examples, but I think you can see what I'm getting at.

Visit the local schools that you can afford and fit your schedule.  Pick the school that seems to best fit what you're looking for.  If there's too many great schools, then you've got a great problem to have.

Edit:  Also keep in mind the level of contact you're willing to accept.  Most of what's been mentioned are full contact schools.  If you're not willing to get punched and kicked pretty hard on a regular basis, things get narrowed down quite a bit.


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## oftheherd1 (Dec 2, 2016)

You said you have time.  Use it as mentioned above to scout out what is out there that you like and can afford.


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## frank raud (Dec 2, 2016)

Check out the Straight Blast gyms. High level BJJ and striking(if it's good enough for Randy Couture, Forest Griffin and Connor MacGregor.....) You will have belts, a structured program, competition, and some of the best weapon work I have done is with SBG associates.    Tribe


Many people train martial arts and work out in the gym as well. It's a question of time available and scheduling.


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## ralij (Dec 3, 2016)

Thank you all for the detailed answers! There are only a couple in the same town that don't appear to be a daycare gym first and foremost. I'm close enough to Lakeland and Tampa, Florida that I could reasonably commute to either for a dojo if its a once/twice a week thing. There's Krav Maga, MMA, and boxing primarily here, along with firing ranges. Tampa has a lot more offerings.

The list of things and styles is really helpful to explore whats there. Searches often miss things when specific names aren't in the search bar. Daido Juku and Straight Blast both look really interesting, but neither are an option sadly due to not having anything anywhere near me.

Available: MMA, Krav Maga, Shotokan and Seidokan karate, TKD, Iaido, Kyudo, Aikido, Hapkido, BJJ, Judo, Boxing, Thai Boxing, Archery and Kung Fu. No HEMA or Kendo schools nearby... the closest is about an hour's drive in good traffic. Others might be there but the search engine isn't picking them up with the phrase 'martial arts'

Learning online was mentioned. How does one do that? I didn't think it was possible to learn something like this without an instructor present to correct form, among other things? I presume you'd need to find a sparring partner at the very least?


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## Gerry Seymour (Dec 3, 2016)

ralij said:


> Thank you all for the detailed answers! There are only a couple in the same town that don't appear to be a daycare gym first and foremost. I'm close enough to Lakeland and Tampa, Florida that I could reasonably commute to either for a dojo if its a once/twice a week thing. There's Krav Maga, MMA, and boxing primarily here, along with firing ranges. Tampa has a lot more offerings.
> 
> The list of things and styles is really helpful to explore whats there. Searches often miss things when specific names aren't in the search bar. Daido Juku and Straight Blast both look really interesting, but neither are an option sadly due to not having anything anywhere near me.
> 
> ...


IMO, to use online training effectively you need some basic comprehension of the principles, first (or a partner who does, at least). So, for instance, I could probably learn some BJJ via online training, given my background includes some Judo and a lot of grappling in my primary art. I'd still be better served by having an instructor, but with a partner who also has some useful background we could probably get some real benefit from it. In fact, I've picked up a few interesting options from some of the Gracies' videos on YouTube. I think this is the concept behind the "study groups" some BJJ groups have formed. There's no one who's a qualified instructor, yet, but there's someone who has a useful understanding of the principles and you can work together to discover better understandings. Pair that with some online material so you have a good model and clear explanations, and you can actually make some progress.


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## marques (Dec 3, 2016)

ralij said:


> (...) Learning online was mentioned. How does one do that? I didn't think it was possible to learn something like this without an instructor present to correct form, among other things? I presume you'd need to find a sparring partner at the very least?


You're right. I don't recommend it (alone).


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## frank raud (Dec 3, 2016)

Knowing that you are in Florida makes it easier to make local recommendations. Check out Jeff Cook  Wabujitsu International Classical Martial Arts/ Mixed Martial Arts/ Close Quarters Combatives or contact the ISR Matrix organization   http://isrmatrix.com/  . Jeff is based out of the Tampa area, ISR Matrix is headquartered in Hollywood Fla, but should have folks closer to you.


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## WaterGal (Dec 3, 2016)

ralij said:


> Available: MMA, Krav Maga, Shotokan and Seidokan karate, TKD, Iaido, Kyudo, Aikido, Hapkido, BJJ, Judo, Boxing, Thai Boxing, Archery and Kung Fu. No HEMA or Kendo schools nearby... the closest is about an hour's drive in good traffic. Others might be there but the search engine isn't picking them up with the phrase 'martial arts'



Hapkido has both grappling and striking elements.  But generally speaking, I'd recommend that you go check out the schools and see what they're actually like.  Is the facility decent, the teacher good, the other students/community a good fit, the classes fit your schedule, etc.


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## JR 137 (Dec 3, 2016)

ralij said:


> Thank you all for the detailed answers! There are only a couple in the same town that don't appear to be a daycare gym first and foremost. I'm close enough to Lakeland and Tampa, Florida that I could reasonably commute to either for a dojo if its a once/twice a week thing. There's Krav Maga, MMA, and boxing primarily here, along with firing ranges. Tampa has a lot more offerings.
> 
> The list of things and styles is really helpful to explore whats there. Searches often miss things when specific names aren't in the search bar. Daido Juku and Straight Blast both look really interesting, but neither are an option sadly due to not having anything anywhere near me.
> 
> ...



Is it Seido or Seidokan in Florida?  I train Seido in NY.  I've met both Florida Seido chief instructors.  Both are very good people.

The quickest way I can characterize Seido, techniques wise, is lighter contact Kyokushin karate.  There's far more to it than that, but that's at the very surface.  Lighter contact doesn't mean non-contact nor point fighting, it just means we're not doing bare knuckle.

This relates to Seido and all other schools...

Pick a school and a teacher, not a style.  Where I train is different than some other Seido dojos.  Our adults are mostly 30s-mid 40s.  We don't care much for competition.  We train hard.  We spar hard, but we're not out for blood.  Most of us were in full contact when we were younger, and have mellowed out a little bit.

There's some Seido dojos that are full of kids that want to do point fighting and tournament kata.  And there's some adults who do as well.  Nothing wrong with that.  But it's not what I want, nor what the people I train alongside want.

Seido Juku is a great organization IMO.  They're worth looking into.  But that doesn't mean that every Seido dojo will have what you're looking for.  There's several I wouldn't train at for any length of time.  Not because of bad teaching nor curriculum, but because the emphasis within the curriculum.  Every style is guilty of this IMO.  Only way to find out is to visit and talk to the teachers.  

The same can be said for every style, organization, and individual school.

Edit: There are a few different organizations with Seido in their name.  Tadashi Nakamura's Seido Juku may have been the first in karate, being founded in 1976.  The others I've seen were founded years later - Seidokaikan and one or two others that escape my memory currently.  The organization I referred to earlier (and train in) as Seido is Seido Juku.

Seido Juku is stand-up striking.  Teachers may add ground fighting, etc., but that's not part of the organization's set curriculum.  Our headquarters does have regular Judo seminars, and my dojo does as well.  Every dojo will be different, depending on the CI and students.


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## ShortBridge (Dec 3, 2016)

ralij said:


> ...
> 
> Available: MMA, Krav Maga, Shotokan and Seidokan karate, TKD, Iaido, Kyudo, Aikido, Hapkido, BJJ, Judo, Boxing, Thai Boxing, Archery and Kung Fu. No HEMA or Kendo schools nearby... the closest is about an hour's drive in good traffic. Others might be there but the search engine isn't picking them up with the phrase 'martial arts'...



Sounds like an embarrasment of riches to me. Get out there, find something and start training. Don't try to out-think the system and assume you can spot it's weekness as a beginner and suppliment to create something better, just train. If you give something a fair chance and it isn't for you, try something else, rinse and repeat.




ralij said:


> ...
> Learning online was mentioned. How does one do that? ...



One doesn't do that, especially not if they have options for instruction, as you do.


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## JowGaWolf (Dec 3, 2016)

I think you will have better luck if you identify why you want to get back into martial arts and what purpose you think martial arts will serve or satisfy.   I think if you do this, then you'll be able to find something that accomplishes what you are looking for and includes the things that you want.

As yourself "What do I want to get out of it?"


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## KangTsai (Dec 3, 2016)

MMA fits your bill head on.


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## Gerry Seymour (Dec 3, 2016)

KangTsai said:


> MMA fits your bill head on.


It's a reasonable fit, but not quite the direct hit - it misses on a couple of points. No bowing (at least that I've ever seen) or similar rituals, and most gyms don't have a belt progression. How much that matters, of course, is a question the OP has to answer.


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## Buka (Dec 5, 2016)

You could choose with the coin flip method. 

One side of the coin - means visit every dojo within a reasonable distance, pick one that that appeals to you and start training.

Other side of the coin - wait for that perfect dojo to come along.


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## thanson02 (Dec 5, 2016)

ralij said:


> Hello there.
> 
> So I've been involved in martial arts when I was living on campus in college and a lot when I was little (karate, tkd, aikido, and kendo) and starting to seriously consider rejoining once finances are back into order (usually the reason I had to quit in one way or another. yay for student life) I know I have awhile to go before I can get my foot into the door and be able to stay or leave of my own will, but I figured getting the information while I have the opportunity is helpful.
> 
> ...


Actually, what you just described is Hwa Rang Do.

However to the best of my knowledge, there's no active HRD schools in Florida. I do know there's a few people down there who used to be involved with HRD, but they've moved on to do their own thing or to do other things. I think there's one instructor down there who might be running a club for kids, but I have to double check to see where she is located. I don't know if she's anywhere near where you live.

Sent from my XT1096 using Tapatalk


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## Juany118 (Dec 7, 2016)

gpseymour said:


> My initial reaction covers a lot of conflicting answers, so I'm tossing out food for thought:
> 
> If you cross-trained between two solid arts, you can build your own complete system. I bring this up because I don't know a single art that has competition, both sides (grappling and strikes) in quantity, and uses belts but not original-language naming.
> BJJ carries a lot of what you're looking for: belts, competition, and grappling. I don't know about the bowing aspects.
> ...


I think this covers it but would add something else and use my school as an example.  We study Wing Chun and Inosanto Kali (which is basically an MMA that adds sticks, swords and knives into the mix).  WC has belts (though the testing happens at the Mother school), Kali doesn't (which we test directly at our school).  On the Kali side we have ranks there but belts only kick in at Black or Red (Red being a Guro) but we all know each other's ranks and line up accordingly.  

We spar a lot and compete BUT the real competition comes at tournaments like Kuo Shu because you don't want to break training partners lol.

So what does that all mean?  Don't look only for a particular art look at the school itself, the teachers.  What do they do because you can have 3 schools that teach the same art on the advert but when you see how they teach it there are big differences between them.

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## lklawson (Dec 8, 2016)

ralij said:


> While I would love to join a HEMA school or traditional archery, but that just adds into the problem in question 1.


HEMA is an extremely broad group, analogous to saying "Japanese Martial Arts."

Some HEMA schools cover Striking, Grappling, and various weapons.  My friend Bob Charron at St. Martin's Academy of Medieval Arms | Stoughton, WI teaches Fiore de Liberi which includes grappling & weapons (and some striking depending).

If you come to my club, we focus on 19th C. American martial arts, including common weapons of the time (particularly bowie knife & tomahawk as well as cane, slungshot, military saber, and others) and Bare Knuckle Pugilism which included a lot of grappling.  We also study Bartitsu (grappling + cane + pugilism).

It's a very very broad range.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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