# Ebonics - is it a dialect or is it just poor grammar?



## Steve (May 24, 2013)

For those who are from other countries, Ebonics is a label used to describe the way that some people speak English.  While some Southern Caucasians speak in much the same way, the term typically refers to an African American speaker.  

I was struck by a comment made on the topic.  In a nutshell, there seemed to be some seriously racist undertones in the comment (unintentional, I believe).  And this is something that I've seen before, in that ebonics tends to be a term used itself as a racial slur.  

So, questions for you guys.  What do you think ebonics is?  Do you think ebonics should be recognized as a dialect of American English?   What about other colloquial/regional/social economic languages, such as Cajun English or Appalachian English?   

Do you think ebonics is racist?  For/by whom?  In other words, do you think it's racist for white people to criticize ebonics?  Do you think it's racist for black people to speak using ebonics?  Neither? Both?


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## Touch Of Death (May 24, 2013)

Steve said:


> For those who are from other countries, Ebonics is a label used to describe the way that some people speak English.  While some Southern Caucasians speak in much the same way, the term typically refers to an African American speaker.
> 
> I was struck by a comment made on the topic.  In a nutshell, there seemed to be some seriously racist undertones in the comment (unintentional, I believe).  And this is something that I've seen before, in that ebonics tends to be a term used itself as a racial slur.
> 
> ...


I think it can become un-useful in certain situations.
Sean


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## billc (May 24, 2013)

Here is a look at ebonics from Economist Thomas Sowell...

http://www.forbes.com/forbes/1997/0127/5902048a.html



> Words and phrases like "ain't" or "I be" and "you be" do not come from any African language. They came from the parts of England from which many white Southerners originated. *The Cambridge Encyclopedia of the English Language pinpoints the regions of the British Isles from which words like "chitterlings" or "chittlin's" came or where people said "ain't" and used other terms now thought to be "black English." ;**
> 
> In short, what is called "black English" is just as white as any other English. It is a dialect that died out as education and standardization of the language proceeded over the generations.*


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## Steve (May 24, 2013)

Touch Of Death said:


> I think it can become un-useful in certain situations.
> Sean


How so?


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## Steve (May 24, 2013)

billc said:


> Here is a look at ebonics from Economist Thomas Sowell...
> 
> http://www.forbes.com/forbes/1997/0127/5902048a.html


Interesting, Bill.  What prompted you to post this?  What do you think are the relevant points?  From the excerpt you chose, I gather you don't think ebonics should be associated with African Americans?  

Or is it that you think it is (or should be?) dead?  What about other Southern dialects, such as the Cajun English dialect I mentioned in the OP?  Is that (or should that) dialect also die out due to education and standardization of the language?   Cajun is another variant of English that is regional and persistent, much the same as ebonics is in certain areas of the country.


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## Tgace (May 24, 2013)

Steve said:


> Interesting, Bill.  What prompted you to post this?  What do you think are the relevant points?  From the excerpt you chose, I gather you don't think ebonics should be associated with African Americans?
> 
> Or is it that you think it is (or should be?) dead?  What about other Southern dialects, such as the Cajun English dialect I mentioned in the OP?  Is that (or should that) dialect also die out due to education and standardization of the language?   Cajun is another variant of English that is regional and persistent, much the same as ebonics is in certain areas of the country.




Since Ebonics isn't restricted to an area of the country (you see it here in the NE too, not just the South.)... like an accent, I see it more as an affectation used to reinforce differences than a true dialect.


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## harlan (May 24, 2013)

I look at it from an Anthropological POV, and Linguistics, and have no problem with the term. I'm certain people will change the label, considering it's topical, but that won't change the existance of what I consider to be a dialect of American English. It's been studied, and exists, and although fluid, still remains distinct enough to deserve documentation.

http://www.linguisticsociety.org/files/Ebonics.pdf


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## elder999 (May 24, 2013)

billc said:


> Here is a look at ebonics from Economist Thomas Sowell...
> 
> http://www.forbes.com/forbes/1997/0127/5902048a.html



_Economist_, Thomas Sowell-not _linguist_?
:lol:

Of course, it depends what you mean by "Ebonics." There are black _cants_, of course-contrived language to discourage discernment by law enforcement. And then there are, in fact, simply dialects. Supreme Court Justice Clarence  Thomas  has a hard time speaking from the bench in part because he grew up speaking _Gullah_:




Such things exist to a greater or lesser degree wherever there were *African* americans-Chicago, New York, St. Louis or  Los Angeles, and they evolved in different ways-much like Jamaican patois has elements of Scottish plantation oveseer's English, various African dialects and even Spanish, "Ebonics" has elements of polyglot influences, and is, most often, a genuine "dialect." Not exactly "English,' and not exactly something else-much like Italian might have been-at one time-a "dialect" of Latin.


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## Touch Of Death (May 24, 2013)

Steve said:


> How so?


Just business and politics. Nothing else really.
Sean


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## DennisBreene (May 24, 2013)

Steve said:


> Interesting, Bill.  What prompted you to post this?  What do you think are the relevant points?  From the excerpt you chose, I gather you don't think ebonics should be associated with African Americans?
> 
> Or is it that you think it is (or should be?) dead?  What about other Southern dialects, such as the Cajun English dialect I mentioned in the OP?  Is that (or should that) dialect also die out due to education and standardization of the language?   Cajun is another variant of English that is regional and persistent, much the same as ebonics is in certain areas of the country.



Cajun is actually a creole, or stable language evolved from two or more languages. Ebonics may be in the same category.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creole_language


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## Tgace (May 24, 2013)

Here's a pretty in your face opinon...

http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19970106&slug=2517364

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2


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## ballen0351 (May 25, 2013)

English should be English no other forms should be acceptable or taught.  I HATE taken written statements from people and they write how they speak or worse now I see people writing text speak.  You take these statements to a court of law and it just reflects poorly.  Now this is for all forms of slang or dialects not just Ebonics.  Its also not a English problem either we have a problem now with other languages we call interpreters in to translate forbid and they can't understand what each other is saying because the interpreter speaks "proper" and the other person is speaking some slang version of the language.

As for strictly Ebonics I think the traditional version isn't really used much anymore by the youth today.  They have their own dialect and its always evolving and changing.  A word that can mean something today can mean something totally different next week.  

I have no problems with anyone using whatever slang or dialect they want in a casual setting but in official statements or professional settings everyone should be using proper or at least try to use proper English.


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