# Laser Eye Surgery Horror Story.



## Bob Hubbard

As some long time members know, I had LASIK eye surgery July 2001.  The comercials you see on tv with pro football players and hockey stars raving about it make it seem like a great way to remove the challenges of wearing glasses (and contacts).

No more worrying about your glasses flying off and breaking, or a contact falling out while you train.

In many cases, it all works out fine.  But a large percentage of folks have a wide range of complications, some minor, some major, most in the middle.

I refer everyone interested in the "What can go Wrong" to see http://www.surgicaleyes.org/ Its a very interesting site, to be certain.

My problems so far have been the folowing:
-increased light sensativity.
-decreased night vision
-extreme starbursts, halos and glare at night.
-extremely increased dryness in the eyes (I use $50+ a week in eyedrops, still isn't enough)
-increased suseptability to injury.  I've had an eyelash fall into my eye that caused 3 days of extreme bluryness.  At night, the outer layer of my eyes have a tendency to dry out and either bind to the eyelids (which results in that layer being ripped off when I open my eyes) to "cracking" (think scar tissues willingness to split)

When training, I have to wear safety glasses at all times, grapplings flat out off limits.  (if hair causes painful problems, I'm sure an elbow would be worse).  Its incredibly annoying to have to put in wetting drops every 10-20 minutes (more if the heats running).

My career is computer related.  It is impossible for me to spend hours non-stop on a pc anymore.  For 2 months after the operation, I could barely work, and web surfing, reading, movies were painful.

As time goes on, it gets better, but unless my eyes can stay wet for an extended time period, its unlikely my vision will ever really be 'clear'.

I've found some interesting things since then.  To treat dryness in the eyes, the followings worked for me:
-hot wet compresses 3x a day.
-flax seed oil 2x a day. (also good dietary aid I've been told)
-Refresh Liquid Gel (green bottle) - helps extend the drops usefullness
-minimizing caffine - the more caffine I drink, the tighter my eyes get.  Sucks, cuz I used to drink tea by the gallon. 

I -strongly- encourage anyone considering -any- type of eye surgury to get as much information as you can.  Many folks think"hey, if I lose 1, I still got another".  I spent 2 weeks on 1 eye after 1 -very- painful scratch.  It sucked big time.  Depth perception was way off, and driving was a nightmare.

:asian:


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## Dronak

Sorry to hear that, Kaith.  I hope things will get better with time and you find good ways to cope with the problems.  I think you're right that many times eye surgery works fine, but there is a non-negligible percentage of people who do have problems.  My dad had eye surgery some time ago to correct something.  It could have been just a vision correction thing, but I thought he had some other problem that required the laser surgery to fix.  In any case, I think it worked out well for him.  His vision is near 20/20 and whatever I think he needed fixed got fixed.  I think he had a few minor side effects, but I don't recall them being particularly bad.

I strained my eyes out of shape in about 7th or 8th grade (I'm serious, my eyes were fine until just before high school) and have been wearing glasses ever since.  I don't like contacts because I don't want to stick something directly on my eyeball.  Glasses are fine for me and since I don't even have high index lenses, there's still plenty of room for me to go.  My uncorrect vision is horrible in that I can't really read anything without my glasses, but I can still see where people and objects are, so it's not like I'm blind either.  Fortunately the change in my eyes has slowed down and hasn't changed significantly in about 4 years.  I should actually get checked again soon, but I don't plan to use laser surgery for correction.  As you noted, there are still a fair number of people who have problems with it and I'm fine with glasses now.


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## Cthulhu

I've worn glasses since I was six years old, and switched to contacts in my teens.  A former boss of mine has LASIK done and was extremely pleased with the results.

However, after reading about Kaith's problems, and checking out that Website, I think I'll stick to contacts and glasses.  

Besides, when you think about it, the whole premise is kind've goofy.  When we were children, we were always told to never shine lights into our eyes.  LASIK shoots a LASER into your eye.  What is LASER an acronym for? 

Cthulhu


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## arnisador

Thanks for sharing this Kaith. I have thought of having this done for precisely the martial arts reasons you mention--my glasses were so badly knocked off and around at my last JKD glass that I had to break out the toolkit when I got home and repair them and I was worried that they'd last til I did get home--so hearing your story is something I could use. I knew of the increased burst probability but not of a story such as yours. Hopefully you'll have helped someone else with this. Good luck with your vision.


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## Kirk

I have a couple friends who have had the surgury done, and 
pretty much love the results.  But because of horror stories like
Kaith's I've been reluctant to front the money for my wife to get
it done (she's blind as a bat without her specs).  Her uncle is an
optician, who works for a surgical eye doctor.  He claims that 
there's a process going through FDA testing now, that will make
LASIK and radial carototomy (sp?) obsolete.  It's simple cataract
surgery, where they replace the lens in your eye, with a TINY 
TINY incision.  But the lens is computer cut for the prescription of
your eye, basically.  There's a lot of cases in senior citizens that
get cataract surgery, and have 20/20 vision after the fact.
The only side effect being claimed as a result of this surgery is
light sensitivity .. however, no more than those with LASIK, and
it apparently goes away ( I think ya get used to it ).  He's claiming
that the hold up in the FDA allowing it, is all the doctors that have
paid top dollar for robot LASIK machines.  So he's predicting that
within about 2 years, it'll be released.  Should be a cheaper
process too.


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## Cthulhu

Another reason to hold off on eye surgery of this type:  presbyopia.  Basically, as we age, the lenses in our eyes lose elasiticity, impairing focus.  This is usually noticeable around middle age.

So, you get your fancy-shmancy eye surgery done in your twenties or early-thirties.  You're one of the lucky ones and you get perfect vision with little or no side effects.  You hit middle age and WHAMMO, your eyes go outta whack again.  So, you need to get glasses...which is why you had that damn surgery in the first place.

Cthulhu


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## Bob Hubbard

One of the biggest things with the laser jobs is to get pre-screened properly.  I should never have had it done.  I had dry eyes going in, and most docs would have red-flagged me.

Mine didnt.

Most of the places doing these laser jobs are run assembly-line style.  Your just a piece of meat to them.  They do 50-100 a day and don't even blink.

If anyone is considering it, get -MANY- opinions.  If you have the least bit of reservations on this stuff, don't do it.  

Better to have to replace a $150 pair of glasses that ya stepped on, than go through some of the crap I did.

Heres a final tip:
-Wear safety glasses when working out.  Guys, thats right up there with the ol cup.  Regardless on how ya look at it, protect yer ballz. 

Cthulhu is right...this is only a temporary sollution.  So, I spent $2000 to F-up my eyes (for vanity and convenience), have spent over $2000 on eye drops over the last 6 months, and will most likely still need glasses again in about 15-20 years.

The jurys still out if all this crap was worth it.  There have been some good points (like being able to wear regular sunglasses again, seeing the time when I wake up, etc), but a hell of alot of "This Sucks!" moments too.

I'm at the point where I can joke about some of it, so thats a good thing.  I mean, at least this year I'll be able to enjoy bikini season.  (Both days of it here in Buffalo.  Wonder if the bikini will be out?)

:asian:


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## DJDragon

Wow, that is terrible to hear.  Thanks for the info.  I was absolutely convinced that laser surgery was perfect, now I'm thinking twice.  I'm in my teens and I wear contacts, and bad eyesight has hindered my life since i was 9.  

Despite your bad experience, I will probably consider laser surgery when I am older.  It's the little things that I can't do, that I would really like to.


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## tunetigress

Well this old bat also had endless difficulties from a young age due to the coke bottle glasses of severe near sightedness.  I had my eyes done before they were even doing it with lasers, and almost no-one had heard of the procedure ( 80's).   Back then it was done surgically and cuts were made in the cornea in order to reshape it.  I had all of Kaith's symptoms at first too.  I had to wear sunglasses constantly for about a year my eyes were so sensitive. I had all manner of wild and weird visual effects, starbursts, you name it, real trippy stuff.  And the pain was excruciating at times.  After the first few months of torment the symptoms began to wane.  Right from the first though, I could see like I had never seen before.  The salmon jumping, the eagles in the trees and even circling high overhead, and no longer  marred by the raindrops and fog on my heavy cumbersome glasses.  And suddenly I found that I had acquired  peripheral vision!  Wow it was a powerful thing.  Changed my life.  Put my head under water, left the side of the pool and learned to swim!  Was suddenly able to catch a ball, ride a bike and see where I was going, and could see well enough to find my way into Kenpo with no fear of having my glasses smashed into my face. (yet one more time like when 'trying' to play a 'sport')   I've had a dozen wonderful active years since I had my eyes done.  Sure,  this Tigger's getting  a bit long in the tooth and I had to get those darn reading glasses, but even then, I don't need them all the time, they weigh a tiny fraction of what my old ones did, and I don't need glasses to find where I put them!  For me, in retrospect, the suffering was (relatively)  fleeting  (tho trust me, it didn't seem so at the time, as Kaith will surely agree) and the long term benefits to my overall quality of like have been just too numerous to mention.  So, I would say that if I could go back in time, I would still choose to get it done and suffer it all again,  cuz if I hadn't I wouldn't be writing this today.  That surgery gave me the freedom to experience activities never before possible or considered. Those new experiences helped to give me the courage to stand where I do today, and take another step on the most incredible journey of my kife,  Kenpo.     :asian:


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## Bob Hubbard

I finally saw a second doc, and she perscribed a nighttime ointment to try.  Its basically vassiline and babyoil, with a few other things.  Ya cant see for beans for about an hour afterwards, but so far, I'm seeing some improvement.

If I had it to to over again, I'd probably not get it done myself.  The more research I do, the less suited I was for this surgury.  PRK it seems would have been a better choice. (no cuts to the eye, less haloing)

So, my advice to anyone considering it is, do aLOT! of research, and don't base anything on price.  You may save $200, but realy screw up your eyes.  Get at the minimum 2 opinions from docs who aren't related to each other.  3 if you can.

Somedays, its great, otherdays, its hell.  But, it does seem to be getting better, so heres hoping.


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## tunetigress

Kaith is right.  This is definitely not the type of thing to pinch pennies on.  Perfect vision and freedom from glasses has value far beyond  the price paid to achieve it.  But, as in all purchases for goods and sevices,  Caveat Emptor, let the Buyer Beware!   :asian:


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## Dronak

I agree.  When you're talking about your health, you certainly don't want to mess things up.  If it costs a few hundred dollars more to get a procedure done properly from a doctor you trust to do it right, it's going to be worth it in the end.  Personally, I'm sticking to glasses.  As I said, the change in my vision has slowed and I'm not even wearing high index lenses yet.  I have a ways to go before I exhaust the glasses option.  I suppose there would be benefits to not having glasses (or contacts) but it's not that big of a concern to me to warrant researching eye surgery.  Not now anyway.


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## Bob Hubbard

Bit of an update (since I saw the question asked on slashdot.org, and it jogged my memory about this thread.) (Hello to all the folks reading from Slashdot!)

Due to an alergic reaction with every eye drop I seem to try, I'm stuck using the single-shot non-preservative drops.  Currently, I go thru 2-3 boxes a week at about $12/box (50 vials perbox)

This is suplimented with 1 tube per month of Muro 128 5% ointment that I use every night so that my eye surface doesn't dry out and fuse to my eyelid.  (If that happens, I rip the surface of my eye off when I open it....very painful...to understate things)

Also use about 1 bottle of Refresh Liquigel every month (about $7)

So, total monthly maintainence is about $160-200 in eye drops.  I get to do this for possibly forever, at least another year or 2 in any event...baring a sudden return of my eyes ability to produce tears.

Readings a nightmare..can't curl up with a good book or 3 like I used to.... Long drives are much longer as I either have to apply drops while driving (not fun at 70mph) or pull over a hell of a lot).

So.... after almost 15 months....I have to say, it sucks.  I can see, but man, the price.

:asian:


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## PassingThrough

Hi ... I'm one of those Slashdot types who followed your link here.  

Before I say anything else, I'd like to say you've got my sympathy!  If it's any consolation, it's stories like yours that have helped me to make up my mind that having to wear glasses really isn't all that bad a thing to be "burdened" with.

I went to the trouble of signing up for an account here because I have an experience that might (it's probably a real longshot) be useful.

I've never had LASIK done, nor any other kind of corrective eye surgery.

That said, a few years ago, I suddenly started developing really dry eyes overnight.  When I woke, I found that my eyelids were alarming hard to open - and it really _hurt_ to do so.  It was as if my eyes had become so dry overnight that my eyelids were effectively sticking to my eyes.  It was one of the most weird, disturbing, unexpected experiences I think I've ever run into with my vision.

Anyway, after 3 or 4 weeks of just hoping it would go away, I couldn't stand it anymore and made up my mind to go see my optometrist.  As I was on my way to work, I started thinking about whether I had any related symptoms to tell him about in hopes that it'd make it easier to figure out what exactly the problem was (assuming it was more than just some type of normal "dry eye" condition - I had no idea what to expect).  Anyway, as I continued driving, I also thought about past lines of questioning used by various doctors.  I figured my optometrist might ask me if I'd had any recent changes in diet, etc.  Heck, I figured he might even ask if there'd been any construction in the apartment building I was living in (stirring up dust or whatever).  I also thought he might also ask if I'd changed soaps recently or stuff like that.  Ironically, I always _hated_ those kind of questions, because my answer to them all was _always_ "no".

But then I had the sudden realization that I actually _had_ changed something in my routine recently.  I thought about it some more and realized that the change did also seem to correspond roughly with the time I started having problems with dry eyes at night.

The change I made?  After succumbing to the marketing for them, I had switched the type of dryer sheets I used in my laundry to those "time release freshness" kind (yeah, I know).  

That evening, despite having washed them the day before, I threw all my sheets and pillowcases into the washer and skipped using a dryer sheet altogether.   The next morning was an _instant_ improvement.  I'm not exaggerating:  my eyes were completely back to normal.  I threw out the box of dryer sheets and decided that if I was that sensitive to that new kind, I wouldn't even go back to my old kind - I'd get the "scent free" variety in the future.

I figure that, having washed those sheets every few days ... and in particular pillow cases ... every night for about 8 hours I was putting my head and eyes right down on top of something it turned out I was allergic to in a really unpleasant way.

So, there you have it.  I'm sorry this turned out so lengthy, but I felt bad enough for you I figured I'd outline everything here in case you think switching some things around in your routine might be helpful.  Maybe some different laundry detergent or dryer sheets?  I realize your eyes are dry all the time, but heck ... even if trying something different only improved things 10% ... from what you describe that might be worth it.  You might even want to consider getting new pillows - there is always some trace out-gassing from foam and such that is of a normally ridiculously small amount ... but with your new sensitivity, maybe even that would be something to consider.

Regardless, good luck.  I really hope your eyes improve.


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## Kirk

Thanks for your information, ya never know, you just might end
up helping someone!


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## Bob Hubbard

I appreciate the suggestion.... will be trying it tomorow.    Thank you!

Ya know, its funny....but a friend of mines so sensative to things that he has to use that no-perfumes/no bleach/etc stuff, else he has vision problems (among other things)... I never even thought of it til now though...and it makes perfect sence given that my eyes are ultra sensative to stuff that never really bugged me before.

:asian:


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## KennethKu

Thanks for making this informative post. My eyes tend to get pretty dry when I sleep. I would not be looking at LASIK now. Will keep wearing my contacts instead.  Thanks for the info again.


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## Lasik Mess

Hello, I am just passing through too.  I just wanted to say that I went to one of the most well-respected doctors in the world and I am a mess of lasik complications.

Paying extra did not save me from the horrors that can be wrought by laser eye surgery, and I cannot see well now with glasses or contacts.  

There's  a lot to know about lasik that the docs don't tell you.  Visit www.surgicaleyes.org, and also www.lasikdisaster.com and www.lasiktruth.com.

If I'd known how bad things could be, I never would have had surgery on my eyes.


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## qizmoduis

Major lurker here.  Just to provide a counterpoint, I got LASIK just over a year ago, and have had no complications.  My eyes were extremely astigmatic and nearsighted prior to surgery, but my vision is now almost (but not quite) 20/20.  

I do have a tiny bit of glare around light sources at night, but that's gradually reducing over time.  

The dry eyes cleared up after 3 months.

It's not all horror stories out there.  ANYTHING can go wrong, but the vast, vast majority of times, it doesn't.  

My vision is better now than when corrected by glasses, and I could never wear contacts of any kind.  For me, it was well worth the price.


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## Cthulhu

I have very bad astigmatism as well, but the new toric contact lenses work very, very well for me.

Cthulhu


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## Bob Hubbard

Thats the problem, Im afraid.   Alot of folks have it done, and everythigns fine....others have it done and its a major nightmare...most fall in the middle, I expect.  A little glare, some sensativity, some dryness, but worth it to be free of glasses and contacts.  

I was told that I should have had PRK, not LASIK...after the fact by my original cutter.... this of course based on the complications I had..not the original diagnoses....which after reading others stories of their evals now seems hurried and somewhat lacking in both the depth and the warmth of theirs.

If you are considering this type of surgury...get several opinions, get evaled by a few docs (even if you have to pay for them), and definately think twice.  You may be fine, or, you may not be...once its done, there is no going back....  Sometimes, its worth it to me..othertimes...it wasnt.  Everyones different, so get as wide an experience base as you can looking at you...and definately check out those websites.... I wish I had before I got it done...probably still would have done it (this is me), but then again...maybe not.

Good luck.


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## qizmoduis

> _Originally posted by Cthulhu _
> 
> *I have very bad astigmatism as well, but the new toric contact lenses work very, very well for me.
> 
> Cthulhu *



Yeah, I tried torics as well.  I could never get good vision from them.  The haloes were so bad that I was virtually blind at night, plus they were so fragile (when I tried them) that they were prone to tearing.  And of course, they could never get the prescription right.

Hard lenses would pop right out of my eye when I blinked, as would gas perms.  Or, if I managed to keep them in more than a couple of hours, I would get vicious headaches.  Contacts just weren't worth the agony.

To each his/her own.


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## tunetigress

> _Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz _
> 
> *
> 
> Ya know, its funny....but a friend of mines so sensative to things that he has to use that no-perfumes/no bleach/etc stuff, else he has vision problems (among other things)... I never even thought of it til now though...and it makes perfect sence given that my eyes are ultra sensative to stuff that never really bugged me before.
> 
> :asian: *



Since I was disabled by a Chemical Injury, I have become well-versed in the area of Chemical Sensitivity.   In my experience, once you become sensitised to one chemical substance you are at risk of becoming sensitive to a host of man-made products that most people never think twice about using.  For those of you who have never given any thought to the toxic effects of the chemicals that are contained in virtually every product sold in supermarkets these days, perhaps it's time to wake up and smell the formaldehyde!

Sensitivity to chemicals is a signal from your body that your system is being overloaded by toxins, like artificial stuff that is considered a 'foreign object' by the body.  The way the condition was explained to me was to think of your body as having a barrel through which every chemical substance you are ever exposed to must pass.   If you take in more chemical molecules than your body's organs can filter out, your barrel can start to overflow, allowing toxins to build up throughout the body.  Then, you get sick, with a host of different symptoms that could easily be construed by your everyday prescription-pad wielding Doctor as psychologically based, in that one person could not possibly have system-wide symptoms from  'no apparent cause.'  You might be told that you are merely 'depressed' or being a 'hypochondriac, or suffering from a little anxiety that a little Paxil Pill will cure.

If the world's doctors ever dared to breathe a word about chemicals being the cause of the increasing level of illness in our supposedly technologically-developed countries, they would be subjected to the most severe censures by the Petro-Chemical/Pharmaceutical Industry who must protect their multi-billion dollar profits, and by the politicians who assist them in doing so.  

There is no drug to cure Chemical  Sensitivity, in fact the use of drugs merely makes the chemically sensitive individual even more sensitive, as the body tries to process still more toxins introduced into an already overtaxed system.  The prognosis for people like this is truly pathetic.  In a world in which thousands of new chemicals are introduced to consumers each year, it has become difficult for the chemically ill to avoid exposure to symptom-inducing toxins because they are absolutely everywhere.   Fumes are emitted by the personal-care and laundry products people use, thinking they must be safe, since they are advertised relentlessly and, after all, they wouldn't be allowed to sell them if they weren't perfectly safe, would they???   The contents of all our supermarket products are all tested for safety, aren't they??? Are they??

Think again.

Most household and personal care products, especially perfumes  and fragranced 'fresh-smelling' laundry and body products are protected under the Trade Secrets Act.  They do not have to reveal ALL of the contents of their products, nor would they want to do so.  Testing for long-term safety?  Why?  It's so much more cost effective to market products and wait until problems arise, then simply recall any 'defective' products, if anyone succeeds in proving that a specific product actually injured them.  To avoid 'negative publicity'  the Corporations involved traditionally settle these cases out of court, with no media fanfare.  The public might panic if they were aware of the existence of neuro-toxins and immuno-toxins in the many seemingly 'harmless' products they use,  day in and day out.  They might choose non-toxic household and personal care products instead, causing Chemical Corporation stocks to suffer.   Tragic, ain't it??  

The number of people suffering similarly to Kaith's friend and myself are growing fast, now estimated at 15% of the population.   What can people do to avoid or reduce symptoms of Chemical Sensitivity????    Simple!   Avoid or reduce your use of  products containing chemicals, fragrances, artificial ingredients, pesticides, herbicides, anti-biotics and growth hormones.    Think you could do it??   If you became Chemically-Sensitive, do you think your friends and relatives would willingly give up their scented and chemically laden brands so that they could come near you??   How would you avoid the polluted air and the chlorine and other chemicals in  your water?   How would you manage to go to work or do your shopping if you became ill from the fragrance and chemical fumes in stores and offices?   Ever even thought about it?   

I hadn't given the issue any consideration till it happened to me.

Maybe you won't either until you find someone's perfume making you annoyingly symptomatic, or find a favorite product that you've used for ages starting to 'bother' you.  Then other things, such as cigarette smoke and car exhaust start to 'bother' you.  Using commonly available cleaning products or gassing up your car make you feel sick.   Eventually the slightest amount of chemical content can cause debilitating symptoms.

With me, it was respiratory failure that caught my attention.  What will it be for you?       
:soapbox:


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## Lasik Mess

Contact lenses which are well-fitted don't pop out.  One solution is to go to an optometrist who knows how to fit larger RGP lenses.  RGP fitting is becoming a lost art, because it's so much easier to plop soft lenses on a patient and not care that vision is much sharper in RGPs.  However, there are still ODs out there who enjoy fitting lenses and there are new technologies to aid them in their efforts.

Large RGPs can be just as comfortable as soft lenses, and they don't get foreign matter like dust underneath them, nor do they pop out. 

I now have 12mm lenses after LASIK, and if I could have been made this comfortable in RGPs three years ago, I never would have been desperate enough to resort to surgery.

Now most of my friends are lasik messes and it's heartbreaking to see how their lives have been destroyed by the "twenty-minute miracle".   I personally know several people who are undergoing cornea transplants after LASIK and even a dentist who has basically lost his practice because he cannot see.  There's the United Airlines pilot in Arizona who was fired.  A mom out there driving her kids to school with 20/70 vision with an RGP in one eye and just had a transplant in the other.    She's not legal to drive, but has to get her kids to school.   There are a lot of us on the road with impaired vision now.  Especially at night.


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## Bob Hubbard

Well, Its been a heck of a long time...figured I should update. 

Its been 2 1/2 years since my surgery.  Until 2 months ago, I was living with family who smoked non stop.  I've since moved out and am living in a smoke free enviroment.  Up to then, my eyes were always tired, dry and irritated.  I was still going through 5-10 vials of drops each day.  In the last 2 months, I now have improved to the point of only needing 1 vial every other day, more when I'm shopping (those stores air's dry) or when I'm really intense in computer time.  Otherwise, I'm doing pretty good.  The eyes don't get tired as much, or as fast either.  Still not 100%, but a hell of alot better.

Vision - well, the left eyes fuzzy, and still has starbursts on bright lights.  Right eye is almost 100%, which is cool.  I can finally see stars in the sky again. (Couldn't for a long time, and I like star gazing.)

Overall, theres still some problems, but there has been some improvement.  All I can say is, if you're considering getting it done, get a couple opinions, do -alot- of research and remember, if something goes wrong, you have to live with the outcome. _There is nothing they can do to fix the problems with my eyes._
They will either heal, or not.  

:asian:


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## OULobo

> _Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz _
> *
> This is suplimented with 1 tube per month of Muro 128 5% ointment that I use every night so that my eye surface doesn't dry out and fuse to my eyelid.  (If that happens, I rip the surface of my eye off when I open it....very painful...to understate things)
> :asian: *



Kaith

I had this exact problem from a sparring accident. I caught a glove right on the eye and the shearing motion from the surface of the glove on my eye tore a gash on the side of my eye. I would get these spasms of pain and watering especially in the morning and couldn't figure it out. When I finally went to the opthamologist, she told me that I had a gash that couldn't heal because the scab would rip from attaching to my lid every morning when my eyes were dry. Eventually it formed a scar that would form cysts from friction from the eyelid. The cysts would regularly fuse and rupture and this was what was causing the pain and watering attacks. She assigned the drops and ointment and told me that if I could stop an attack for up to six months, then it should heal right. It took much longer because I was horrible with the meds., but eventually it healed. 

On the Lasik thing I have a comment too. An aquaintance of mine had catarak (sp) laser surgury that was supposed to be more routine than even Lasik. During the process they peirced his retena of one eye and scarred the back of his other eye. He has been legally blind for almost 8 months and has had three repair surguries on one eye and two repair surguries on the other. Even with all that he will have lasting effects. Luckily he was retired and didn't have to worry about work. It seems that too many doctors think they can do these "common" surguries with little or no experience.


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## TonyM.

On a side note; my wife is still wearing the hard contacs she originally got in '70. The optomitrist polished them last year and was amazed they were still OK. (Her prescription hadn't changed and all the scratches buffed out.)


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## Phil Elmore

That's the neat thing about hard contacts -- they don't pick up the biological crap that makes soft contacts dangerous over time no matter how much you clean them.


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## Cruentus

Wow...I am glad this thread was revived. I had thought about getting it done....F-that. I'd rather be blind and comfortable.

Hey, does anyone have nay stats on this? What percentage of Lasik patients have long term complications?

Just wondering.

Thanks.

PAUL


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## Bob Hubbard

10-50% experience some complications.

Somewhere in the area of 5% of LASIK patients attempt suicide within 5 years of the surgury dur to those complications.  (Yes, I did briefly consider it the first year....Being unable to read, function, drive and perform most of my normal pleasures was a source of constant anguish.)

Complications:  Note- My comments are in _Italics_

Aniseikonia (difference in image size between the two eyes) 
Anisometropia 
Aquarium Vision 
Arcing 
BCVA (loss of) 
*Blindness *
Branch Retinal Vein Occlusion 
Cataract Formation 
Central Islands 
Central Toxic Keratopathy 
Contrast Sensitivity Loss 
Corneal Abrasions 
Corneal Necrosis 
Corneal Perforation 
Corneal Scars 
Corneal Thinning 
Corneal Ulcers 
Decompensated Strabismus 
Depth Perception (loss of) 
Diffuse Lamellar Keratitis (DLK, Sands of Sahara) 
*Dry Eyes * _(If you think this isn't a big deal, can you cope with having to put drops in hourly, maybe even every 5 minutes and absorb a $50-$100+ PER WEEK! eyedrop bill?  Mine averaged out to $40/week for the first 2 years!)_
Ectasia 
Edema 
Endothelial Cell Loss 
Epithelial Ingrowth 
Epithelial Sloughing 
Flap Buttonhole 
Flap Decentered 
Flap Unfolding 
Flap Melt 
Flap Striae and Wrinkles 
Flap Subluxation 
Fluctuating Vision 
GASH 
Ghosting  _(This, combined with the next 4 are constant companions of mine)_
Glare 
Haloes 
Haze 
Headache 
Hyperopic Shift 
Induced Aberrations 
Induced Astigmatism

Infectious Keratitis 
Interface Debris 
Interface Keratitis (infectious and non-infectious, early and late onset) 
Irregular Astigmatism 
Irregular Wound Healing 
Microperforations 
Monocular Diplopia 

Muscle Spasms 

Nerve Fiber Damage and/or Thinning 
Night Vision Loss  _(Yup...got this...)_

Nocturnal glare 

Optic Nerve Infarction

Optic Nerve Neuropathy

Overcorrection

Pain (persistent)

Palebral fissures (expanding induced), 

Photophobia (undesirable visual sensations produced by bright lights) 

Progressive Hyperopia

Psychological Problems (induced or exacerbated)

Ptsopis (droopy eyelid) 

Quality of Life (loss of)

Reading Problems _(Yup.  When the Sunday Comics kick your ***, theres a problem_

Recurrent Erosion

Regression (both naturally occuring and induced via hypoxia) 

Retinal breaks/tears/macular holes 

Retinal Detachment

Scarring _(My left eye has some scaring caused by constant abrasion._

Starbursts  _(Have this too, especially at night._

Steroid Induced Glaucoma 

Trigeminal Neuralgia 

Undercorrection

Uneven Pupils Sizes 

Visual Field Defects 

Vitreous Detachment (Floaters)

Future Induced Difficulties:

IOL Calculation Difficulties 
Difficulty detecting Glaucoma Onset 
Induced Contact Lens Intolerance 
Increased susceptability to ocular trauma (i.e., late flap, dislocation)


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## arnisador

Glad to hear that it's getting better Kaith. Hope it continues.


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## Bob Hubbard

1 year update:
  Eyes are still easily tired, but have been much better on the mosture level. I can now sleep at night without needing to put goop in em.  I'm down to 1 box of drops per month, and thankfully walmart makes a generic version of the 1 drop I can still use.  Night vision and haloing is still as it was.  Light sensitivity has improved but I'm still wearing shades outside.  Night visions better, but still not like it was.

3 years, $2000 operation, $5,000+ in drops, 10 pair of sunglasses.....still dunno if it was worth it.


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## Ceicei

Bob,
It's time for your another update.  In a couple of months, it will be your 2nd year.  How are your eyes now?

- Ceicei


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## Brian R. VanCise

Bob,

Thanks for this thread. I have on and off thought about Lasik 
eye surgery and generally when talking to my family we determine
that the risks as of yet do not outweight the gain. My eyesight 
for distances is not great but I see perfectly everything around 
me in a twenty foot radius or so. Thanks again for this thread,
as it outlines some of the potential problems and highlights also
some of the common problems associated with Lasik! 

Brian R. VanCise
www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com


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## CrankyDragon

1) Sorry to hear about your problems, hope things get better, though it sounds doubtful.

2) Thanks for sharing your story.  Ive worn glasses as long as I can remember, Id love to throw them in the trash and have thought about that corrective surgery thing many times.  I am now glad Ive never persued it.

3) The link in the original post is defunct.  Can you check it please, Id like to look at the information you wanted to present.

Take care,
Andrew


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## Bob Hubbard

Link fixed: http://www.surgicaleyes.org/

It's been a little over 4 years now.
For the most part, my eyes are fine, though when I'm tired, or the humidity drops they bother me a bit. A little blurry and feel 'odd'.  At the moment, my drop usage is minimal, a few a day, and once before bed.  This will increase during the winter when the air is dryer in the house.  Left eye is still a little out of focus compared to the right, but it's tollerable.  Night drivings a bit more challenging as night is darker than it used to be.  Rainy nights are the worse for me as everything is very dark, and theres lots of glare. Starbursts arouns light sources are the worse.

Look at http://www.surgicaleyes.org/ and check out the Image center.  You can see through my eyes. LOL


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## Jade Tigress

You're situation really sucks. I'm glad things are slowly getting better for you. It seems to me there would be some sort of legal course you could take with the surgeon. Was the procedure performed properly? In any case, I'm glad you are having continued improvement.


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## Bob Hubbard

AFAIK it was, but, I never saw my records.
After the fact I've been told I should have had PRK not LASIK, and that I probably shouldn't have had either due to my eyes being too dry to start.
Unfortunately, you sign waivers, and I wasn't in a position to retain a lawyer then.


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## arnisador

Bob Hubbard said:
			
		

> I wasn't in a position to retain a lawyer then.



It's just as well. They'd rob you blind.

I'd like to get this done, but stories like Kaith's stop me. I've sat there chatting with him in person and watched him go through eye-drops as though they were addictive. (I'm glad it's improving!) I am not ready to take the risk.

Honestly, I've been hit in the glasses at times when I would otherwise have been poked in the eye--there are some benefits.


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## Lisa

Bob, How old were you when you had the surgery done?  I was under the impression that the older you were, the higher the risk.  Is this true?

My sister in law had the surgery done... she contracted an infection but luckily being a nurse practitioner she caught it early herself and was diligent about eye drops and antibiotics and saved herself a lot of pain and discomfort.

Me, I am lucky.. still have 20/20 vision   It is a little blurry in the morning but that is often due to not having coffee yet


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## Jonathan Randall

arnisador said:
			
		

> It's just as well. They'd rob you blind.
> 
> I'd like to get this done, but stories like Kaith's stop me. I've sat there chatting with him in person and watched him go through eye-drops as though they were addictive. (I'm glad it's improving!) I am not ready to take the risk.
> 
> Honestly, I've been hit in the glasses at times when I would otherwise have been poked in the eye--there are some benefits.


 
I've thought the same thing; it would be nice, but why take the risk? After hearing about Bob's case, I definitely will not have it done anytime in the near future. Perhaps when they get to the point where nanotechnology can repair surgeon's mistakes...

I had my glasses shattered by a flying piece of rock while mowing the lawn years ago. Without the glasses to protect me, I might have lost an eye.

Hope you one day have a complete recovery, Bob - and you are right, the laser places cover their butts pretty well.


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## Bob Hubbard

Lisa said:
			
		

> Bob, How old were you when you had the surgery done?  I was under the impression that the older you were, the higher the risk.  Is this true?
> 
> My sister in law had the surgery done... she contracted an infection but luckily being a nurse practitioner she caught it early herself and was diligent about eye drops and antibiotics and saved herself a lot of pain and discomfort.
> 
> Me, I am lucky.. still have 20/20 vision   It is a little blurry in the morning but that is often due to not having coffee yet


I was 31, in good health.
Was assured that a few days recovery was all I'd need.

I think they were ah, slightly off.....


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## Phenix_Rider

I've thought about this off and on myself.  Been trying to find long term results.  How are the eyes?

From what I've been reading, side effects are much, much less likely any more.


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## Bob Hubbard

Found out during an eye exam 2 years ago that I shouldn't have had it done, that a lot of the side effects I've had were the result of bad post op, and I've been back in glasses since then.  Still using eye drops regularly, night visions still worse than before the surgery.


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## Ceicei

Wow....

Got an email with your reply and realized I've been away from MartialTalk too long.  It is time for me to return.

About a year and a half ago (Summer of 2009), I decided to opt for eye surgery.  My husband had LASIK a year before mine and it went successfully.  That gave me the courage to look into this. I decided to go get my eyes evaluated by the same surgeon.  

He told me that LASIK wasn't a good option for me, but PRK would be better. It was because of two reasons:  1) my martial arts activity and 2) I have thinner corneas.  Doing more research into PRK, I agreed with him.

While the recovery from PRK is generally longer than with LASIK, the results typically will end up similar (better vision).

The first three months after surgery for me was rough (in terms of requiring patience while waiting for vision to clear up), it was definitely worth it.  Almost a year and a half later today, I've nearly forgotten what it was like to wear glasses.  I still do remember how I had trouble reading some things even with glasses and now I can without glasses.  Even now, I sometimes marvel with the clarity the mountains look--even better than with contacts prior to surgery.  

I kicked myself in the butt for not considering surgery earlier, but then again, fears and concerns about the surgery are very real.  These are my only pair of eyes, and beig deaf, my "only" means of life survival for me.  So many "what ifs" about the surgery... The worry can be nearly crippling...   

Watching my husband going under the laser first and he seeing clearly almost immediately was amazing. That gave me courage after he recovered after two weeks with no problems himself.  I could see the surgeon choice was a good one.  He made it clear to me not to expect immediate results from PRK the same way LASIK would, and that fluctuations would be common the first several weeks (three months) before becoming permanently clear.  I was so glad he warned me.  Even then knowing this in advance, the fluctuations were frustrating for me anyway and I felt plagued with doubts (those "what if" thoughts).  

No regrets.  I can now read flash cards easily for my martial arts tests.  I am able to hit harder and take hits harder (maybe it's a confidence thing and being able to see my partners better).

Was it worth it?  For me, a big YES.

Ceicei


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