# General Self Defense Mindset



## stonewall1350 (Jul 16, 2012)

This is something I feel gets neglected by some schools. They get involved in being fancy, teaching how to defend against guns and knives. They learn all the tricks, but the one thing they don't ever dig into is the WHY of it all. They only do the what and how of self defense. The why is to live. With that in mind...

What is the general mindset that you HAVE or you teach?

Mine is that simply end the confrontation, and there are no rules to do that.


----------



## Bill Mattocks (Jul 16, 2012)

stonewall1350 said:


> This is something I feel gets neglected by some schools. They get involved in being fancy, teaching how to defend against guns and knives. They learn all the tricks, but the one thing they don't ever dig into is the WHY of it all. They only do the what and how of self defense. The why is to live. With that in mind...
> 
> What is the general mindset that you HAVE or you teach?
> 
> Mine is that simply end the confrontation, and there are no rules to do that.



Read some of my threads on the subject.  The point of self defense is defense of oneself (and family, friends, and whomever else one is with, of course).  Too often self defense turns into ego defense or how to retaliate 101.  Self defense can be anything from giving up your wallet, if that is the lowest risk thing to do in your mind to running away if you decide that is the safest bet, to duking it out if you feel that's the safest way to defend yourself in that situation.  There are no hard-and-fast rules that describe all scenarios.  One must think for oneself.

Expanding the topic of self defense even more, one can say that self defense includes situational awareness, not doing stupid or risky things (like getting drunk in public, going to bad parts of town, using and buying drugs from criminals, etc), knowing how to escape from your house in a fire (and practicing getting out, which no one does), having a plan to bug out if ITEOTWAWKI), knowing some first aid and having first aid equipment handy, knowing how to trap, hunt, prepare fresh meat, make a fire, orient yourself with a compass, raise crops, make alcohol (besides just for drinking), read clouds to understand weather when it is an immediate threat, and so on.  This is all self defense, or self preservation if you will; it all comes under the same umbrella in the end - it's about protecting your own life from threats - whether from other people or from nature or governments or whatever.  Yeah, even zombies (god I hate that meme, but whatever).

As far as that all relates to my MA training...it doesn't.  I go to my karate classes to learn traditional Okinawan martial arts skills.  We do practice some self defense techniques.  But how that applies to any given self defense situation, we don't cover that.  Any why should we?  It's not a self defense school, it's a karate class.


----------



## seasoned (Jul 16, 2012)

I feel that a good martial arts dojo should embody the tenants of respect, humility, honesty, integrity, hard work, and giving 100% at all times while training. 
I came up through the ranks with a strict code of conduct that everyone had to adhere to. Sure we had fun, but not during class, that was saved for after class. 

The techniques that are taught are realistic, and to the point pertaining to self defense. When we spar there are no rules, and at times we go to the ground, and are taught to not stay there, but fight your way back up.

If you train in a dojo like the above, with a no nonsense approach, it will go a long way in teaching you proper mind set for your survival in the streets.


----------



## Touch Of Death (Jul 16, 2012)

stonewall1350 said:


> This is something I feel gets neglected by some schools. They get involved in being fancy, teaching how to defend against guns and knives. They learn all the tricks, but the one thing they don't ever dig into is the WHY of it all. They only do the what and how of self defense. The why is to live. With that in mind...
> 
> What is the general mindset that you HAVE or you teach?
> 
> Mine is that simply end the confrontation, and there are no rules to do that.


Why do you suppose the "why" is never addressed. I feel our school deals in the why. 
Sean


----------



## Marcy Shoberg (Jul 17, 2012)

I think a bigger problem in the way almost all martial arts schools teach self-defense is that they just focus on the part of time when blows are being thrown and don't teach much about attitude, awareness, body language, words, and use of voice that can keep most dangerous situations from getting to the point where blows need to be thrown.  I've been researching this type of thing for quite a while now and have also decided that it's a shame that people who either do or don't care to learn how to use their body for self-defense don't have a way to get training in how to use their brain for self-defense.  I'm working on home-study courses that teach what I believe to be self-defense mindset.  If anyone wants to give me their thoughts on the issue, info about my home-study course is available at www.theselfdefenselady.com


----------



## Marcy Shoberg (Jul 17, 2012)

computer acting funny. ignore this post please


----------



## Bill Mattocks (Jul 17, 2012)

Marcy Shoberg said:


> I think a bigger problem in the way almost all martial arts schools teach self-defense is that they just focus on the part of time when blows are being thrown and don't teach much about attitude, awareness, body language, words, and use of voice that can keep most dangerous situations from getting to the point where blows need to be thrown.



And why should they?  The dojo I study at offers karate classes, not 'how to defend yourself using a variety of non-karate techniques'.  It's like complaining that public libraries are lousy restaurants.  Self defense is related to the study of karate, and many places offer self defense courses specifically.  I go to my dojo to learn karate.  I'll worry about my own self defense.


----------



## Christian Soldier (Jul 17, 2012)

I think a lot of the mental stuff reguarding decisions made on the street should probably come more from the students mind than the instructors. The instructors job is to teach, not only how to do something, but why you are doing it and why it works. Once you have these concepts and princbles, in the furture when they learn something the student should be able to figure out why something works themselves. With this knowledge each student needs to judge for themself what they can and can't do. 

In short, The instrctor's teaching should encourage thought, not think for the student. Because they will need that individual decision making ability on the street.


----------



## WingChunIan (Jul 17, 2012)

The mindset is absolutely pivotal to what I teach. I teach my guys to develop a go signal, once that button is pressed they go. Nothing is held back and they throw the kitchen sink at their assailant/s. Its hyper aggressive but it helps to survive and the go system also helps to deal with the aftermath knowing that there was nothing more that you could have done to protect you and yours, nothing else that you could have done to avoid violence (a prerequisite for reaching go point) and hence reduced remorse for any damage inflicted.


----------



## oftheherd1 (Jul 17, 2012)

When I briefly studied TKD under Jhoon Goo Rhee, there was never anything formal about self defense, but just that one should always attempt to avoid a fight, including walking away, but aquit oneself well if it couldn't be avoided.

In the Hapkido I learned, we were again told we should avoid fights if we could. Again, no classes in SD per se, but Hapkido is very _defense_ minded. 

Hapkido as I learned it was a little different in that if we had to fight, it was understood and expected that it was to be very unpleasant to the attacker. Anything that happened to the attacker was his just deserts. 

And yes, many defensive techniques can be modified slightly and used offensively. But the first of that isn't taught until the red belt level, the last gup before the BB test.

I would agree that no school, unless it is specifically being taught as an all encompassing SD course, need teach SD.  And law should be part of that teaching.  Even so, I see most martial arts as primarily defensive.  But as Bill pointed out, that isn't necessarily SD.


----------



## stonewall1350 (Jul 17, 2012)

Touch Of Death said:


> Why do you suppose the "why" is never addressed. I feel our school deals in the why.
> Sean



Well the "why" is simply to survive correct? To come out with the true victory (safety and health). I have trained with places that like to teach fancy moves, charge you $300 a month, and then give you some shirts or belts.

Then other schools are so concerened in making you a destroyer of worlds that you just can't react normally to an average situation (like some guy getting a little too aggressive in a bar...but not to the point that he is unmanageable).


----------



## Bill Mattocks (Jul 17, 2012)

stonewall1350 said:


> Well the "why" is simply to survive correct? To come out with the true victory (safety and health). I have trained with places that like to teach fancy moves, charge you $300 a month, and then give you some shirts or belts.
> 
> Then other schools are so concerened in making you a destroyer of worlds that you just can't react normally to an average situation (like some guy getting a little too aggressive in a bar...but not to the point that he is unmanageable).



I think you're making some assumptions.
_
'Martial arts can be used for self-defense.  Therefore, martial arts schools should teach a more complete self defense theory.' _ Is that not what you're trying to say?

If so, I respectfully disagree.  Self defense schools teach self defense.  Martial arts schools teach martial arts.  As I mentioned earlier, I take Isshin-Ryu karate.  To learn Isshin-Ryu karate.  If I wanted to learn a holistic self defense mindset, I'd go somewhere that teaches that.

By presuming that all martial arts training is to teach self defense, you create a false premise which leads to your solution.  The problem is, the premise is incorrect to begin with.

That's not to say that my sensei does not teach self-defense concepts - he does.  But he does not teach all there is to know about self-defense because it is not a self-defense school.


----------



## Touch Of Death (Jul 17, 2012)

stonewall1350 said:


> Well the "why" is simply to survive correct? To come out with the true victory (safety and health). I have trained with places that like to teach fancy moves, charge you $300 a month, and then give you some shirts or belts.
> 
> Then other schools are so concerened in making you a destroyer of worlds that you just can't react normally to an average situation (like some guy getting a little too aggressive in a bar...but not to the point that he is unmanageable).


I would venture its about minding your own P's and Q's. If I stay aware of my surroundings and be the kind of person that doesn't have to look over my shoulder, the good stances and strong basics should help us against a large percentage of confrontations at hand.
Sean


----------



## Nomad (Jul 18, 2012)

Touch Of Death said:


> I would venture its about minding your own P's and Q's. If I stay aware of my surroundings and be the kind of person that doesn't have to look over my shoulder, the good stances and strong basics should help us against a large percentage of confrontations at hand.
> Sean



This can be summarized by the (IMHO) number one rule on avoiding physical conflict: "Don't be an a$$hole".


----------



## WC_lun (Jul 18, 2012)

To teach self defense you must stress awareness and not putting yourself into bad situations.  If it comes to violence, students must learn what is effecient and effective.  If any of the above is not present, then it is not self defense training.

There are many schools that do not teach self defense.  There are equally vaid reasons to study or teach martial arts other than self defense.   The problem arises when schools that are not teaching self defense claim to be doing so.  Sadly, many instructors claim to be teaching self defense and they do not even know that they are not.  The fantasy of self defense training often takes precedence over the reality of it.


----------



## WingChunIan (Jul 19, 2012)

Whilst I whole heartedly agree that there are numerous other benefits to learning a martial art and I also hold the view that through training your goal should be to never have to use what you learn for real in a street confrontation, it does beg the question; if you don't train for street self defence and you aren't in the military going to war is what you are learning still legitimately a "martial" art or is it simply an art?


----------



## Bill Mattocks (Jul 19, 2012)

WingChunIan said:


> Whilst I whole heartedly agree that there are numerous other benefits to learning a martial art and I also hold the view that through training your goal should be to never have to use what you learn for real in a street confrontation, it does beg the question; if you don't train for street self defence and you aren't in the military going to war is what you are learning still legitimately a "martial" art or is it simply an art?



Semantics.  It's called a martial art traditionally, so that's what it is, whether you use it to stay in shape, learn self-defense, or engage in sporting activities.  If I wear socks on my hands, are they now mittens?  No, they're still socks.


----------



## celestial_dragon (Oct 16, 2012)

Read the book, "Living the martial way." It goes into the mindset that a warrior should have. be it attacking or defending.


----------



## Instructor (Oct 16, 2012)

Some things I tell my people:

1. Use good posture with your head held high and aware of your surroundings.  Predators target the weak, insecure, unaware or distracted.

2. Eye contact must be natural and brief.  A calm cursory glance is expected.  A nervous glance triggers aggression.  Staring makes people nervous and sometimes angry.  Ignoring completely can be effective but not at the expense of awareness.  If you feel somebody is a threat and you must keep an eye on them, use peripheral vision and reflective surfaces.

3.  Don't walk around with your cell phone to your ear, be aware.

4.  In a confrontation don't let anybody get between you and the exit.

5. If you can just walk away, if you can't walk then run!

6.  Be mindful that predators don&#8217;t always work alone.

7.  If you must fight, don&#8217;t dally, end the fight with as much force as needed and then get out of there.  Keep your hands up, elbows down and chin down slightly.

8.  Movement is your friend.  Try to stay on your feet.  If battling a group keep moving, ideally towards an exit or running away.  People run at different speeds so a group will naturally fall into a line that you could repel one at a time.

9.  If they pull a knife, grab something to use a shield or barricade, chairs work nicely.  If they pull a gun take cover and call the authorities.  In fact the moment you know you are going to be in a self defense situation call 911 and just leave your phone on.  Pocket the phone and shout your location while you are fighting or fleeing.

10.  Make lots of noise, predators don&#8217;t like to attract attention.

11. Above all, keep your head, each situation is different try to use common sense.


----------



## Monkey Turned Wolf (Oct 16, 2012)

WingChunIan said:


> Whilst I whole heartedly agree that there are numerous other benefits to learning a martial art and I also hold the view that through training your goal should be to never have to use what you learn for real in a street confrontation, it does beg the question; if you don't train for street self defence and you aren't in the military going to war is what you are learning still legitimately a "martial" art or is it simply an art?


IMHO if you are learning "martial" techniques, regardless of how you plan to use them, you are learning a "martial" art.


----------



## Monkey Turned Wolf (Oct 16, 2012)

Instructor said:


> Some things I tell my people:
> 
> 1. Use good posture with your head held high and aware of your surroundings.  Predators target the weak, insecure, unaware or distracted.
> 
> ...


Very useful, thanks! Especially like numbers 9 and 10, have to remember them if the situation ever rises.


----------



## WC_lun (Oct 16, 2012)

Some of these replies beg the question, if it was originally a martial art, but now has NO martial application, why do we still call it a martial art?   I've seen schools that teach stuff that would be very detrimental to real self defense, but it still is physical activity with a martial-esque flavor.  I don't view those schools as martial arts studios, but rather excercise clubs.  Too bad the students in them still think they are learning self defense.


----------



## WingChunIan (Oct 18, 2012)

Bill Mattocks said:


> Semantics.  It's called a martial art traditionally, so that's what it is, whether you use it to stay in shape, learn self-defense, or engage in sporting activities.  If I wear socks on my hands, are they now mittens?  No, they're still socks.


So in your view Tae-bo is a martial art and so is boxercise...... interesting POV. It's each to their own, I personally feel that the term martial art is used too loosley. As far as wearing socks on your hands, what you do in the privacy of your own home is entirely up to you and it's your choice what you call them..........


----------



## MJS (Oct 18, 2012)

stonewall1350 said:


> This is something I feel gets neglected by some schools. They get involved in being fancy, teaching how to defend against guns and knives. They learn all the tricks, but the one thing they don't ever dig into is the WHY of it all. They only do the what and how of self defense. The why is to live. With that in mind...
> 
> What is the general mindset that you HAVE or you teach?
> 
> Mine is that simply end the confrontation, and there are no rules to do that.



IMO, I think there is alot of garbage taught in alot of schools today, along with alot of things that would probably only work in fantasy land.  Sadly, alot of these people who train there, actually fall for the BS that they're being taught.  On the flip side, there're alot of very good schools/teachers, who're teaching quality, effective material.  

What I teach...first and foremost, I feel the most important thing is awareness.  Its amazing how many people walk around with their head in the clouds, distracted by their cell phone, etc.  No, I'm not saying that we should be some paranoid nut, that looks over our shoulder every 2 secs, but chances are, the badguys are going to target someone whos got their head in the clouds, rather than someone whos aware, and actually paying attention.

Next, and IMO, this goes hand in hand with the above, would be some good old common sense.  If you know a certain area is bad, well, if you dont have to go there, dont!  When you pull into the parking lot, parking garage, etc, scan the area.  If you know a bar or club is bad news, dont go, and if you do, again, be aware.

As for physical techniques...well, for me, I tend to be a follower of the KISS method.  Simple, effective, quick and to the point.  All the flashy stuff...well, save that for the demos and fantasy land.  

I've mentioned this before, but it's worth saying it again. I think alot of schools only focus on what I call the 'during' portion of the defense.  Everyone has a tech for what to do when the badguy is actually attacking, but what about before he attacks?  What about after?  I'm talking about what you can do to avoid the confrontation in the first place, and how to deal with the aftermath.  IMO, I think Rory Millers books talk about this very well.  IMO, his stuff should be required reading, as its a wealth of knowledge.


----------



## MJS (Oct 18, 2012)

Bill Mattocks said:


> And why should they?  The dojo I study at offers karate classes, not 'how to defend yourself using a variety of non-karate techniques'.  It's like complaining that public libraries are lousy restaurants.  Self defense is related to the study of karate, and many places offer self defense courses specifically.  I go to my dojo to learn karate.  I'll worry about my own self defense.



With all due respect here Bill, and perhaps I'm just misunderstanding you, but frankly, I find this odd, coming from you.  I mean, in past discussions, you've talked about people complying and not being macho with what they know, yet if all someone knows is how to kick ***, well, IMO, you can't or shouldn't be too surprised, when someone responds with the "If someone did that to me, I'd bust his face!" comments.


----------



## WC_lun (Oct 18, 2012)

Rory Miller's books are very good for those interested in self defense.


----------



## MJS (Oct 18, 2012)

WC_lun said:


> Some of these replies beg the question, if it was originally a martial art, but now has NO martial application, why do we still call it a martial art?   I've seen schools that teach stuff that would be very detrimental to real self defense, but it still is physical activity with a martial-esque flavor.  I don't view those schools as martial arts studios, but rather excercise clubs.  Too bad the students in them still think they are learning self defense.



Good point, and thats why I personally wouldn't consider Tae Bo or P90X or any similar programs, where they're using 'martial arts' type moves, martial arts.  IMHO, they're not martial arts....they're exercise programs.  Of course, the people who market these programs, probably aren't telling their customers that.


----------



## Instructor (Oct 18, 2012)

MJS said:


> With all due respect here Bill, and perhaps I'm just misunderstanding you, but frankly, I find this odd, coming from you.  I mean, in past discussions, you've talked about people complying and not being macho with what they know, yet if all someone knows is how to kick ***, well, IMO, you can't or shouldn't be too surprised, when someone responds with the "If someone did that to me, I'd bust his face!" comments.



Pride and ego have no place in self defense, that kind of stuff usually escalates the situation.


----------



## MJS (Oct 18, 2012)

Instructor said:


> Pride and ego have no place in self defense, that kind of stuff usually escalates the situation.



I agree.  However, like I said, if all someone knows is how to kick ***...well, whats that saying, when all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail...or something to that effect..lol.  

My 'complying and macho' comments, stem from past debates that Bill and I have had.  For the record, I enjoy discussions with Bill.  While we may not always agree, I do respect him for his opinions.


----------



## Instructor (Oct 18, 2012)

MJS said:


> I agree.  However, like I said, if all someone knows is how to kick ***...well, whats that saying, when all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail...or something to that effect..lol.
> 
> My 'complying and macho' comments, stem from past debates that Bill and I have had.  For the record, I enjoy discussions with Bill.  While we may not always agree, I do respect him for his opinions.



As do I....


----------

