# Stand up defense..



## jkd friend (Sep 25, 2008)

On the ground I see good defense but standing up I see alot of set ups for the offensive. This may not be a problem but I like to see a good block to a strike or evasive maneuver to the same end. I love defense and I more of this would lead to a better looking fight maybe its the jkd in me but defense when all sorts of games.


----------



## Nolerama (Sep 25, 2008)

I beg your pardon. Forgive me if you take any kind of offense to this:

Research a little better. You'll find that a lot of MMA fighters strongly focus on their defense not only to other strikers, but to wrestlers and clinch fighters as well.

But maybe I took that all wrong. The OP is a little incoherent. Again, kind of funny coming from a JKD person...


----------



## jkd friend (Sep 25, 2008)

Nolerama said:


> I beg your pardon. Forgive me if you take any kind of offense to this:
> 
> Research a little better. You'll find that a lot of MMA fighters strongly focus on their defense not only to other strikers, but to wrestlers and clinch fighters as well.
> 
> But maybe I took that all wrong. The OP is a little incoherent. Again, kind of funny coming from a JKD person...


 

I know they focus on there defense but it looks like gaurd defense like boxing. Its let strike hit gaurd instead of timing, blocking then going on the offensive (maybe you understand me alittle better):asian:


----------



## Nolerama (Sep 25, 2008)

As opposed to what other kind of defense? Some MMA people use a high guard style.


----------



## TheOriginalName (Sep 25, 2008)

To use a classic.........Sometimes the best defense is a good offense.


----------



## Skpotamus (Sep 26, 2008)

Are you talking about trying to parry and slip incoming punches and then counter ala trapping drills?

If so, that's incredibly difficult to pull off with any type of regularity due to the footwork in mma.  The more upright and squared stances limit headmovement (not to mention clinch work and kicking making that dangerous), which makes it harder to move and parry, hence the shelling type defenses you see being used most often.


----------



## Tez3 (Sep 26, 2008)

jkd friend said:


> On the ground I see good defense but standing up I see alot of set ups for the offensive. This may not be a problem but I like to see a good block to a strike or evasive maneuver to the same end. I love defense and I more of this would lead to a better looking fight maybe its the jkd in me but defense when all sorts of games.


 

It's not a problem and you'd probably be better watching JKD fights for what you want to see rather than MMA.
I love attack :whip1:  lol!


----------



## Brian S (Sep 26, 2008)

We could all criticize and we could all use some criticism. I have alot of respect for mma guys,but don't take it harshly just because someone has a negayive comment.

 I do believe that mma players need to have a better foundation before jumping into the fightgame. I see sloppy techniques from the younger guys.


----------



## Tez3 (Sep 26, 2008)

Brian S said:


> We could all criticize and we could all use some criticism. I have alot of respect for mma guys,but don't take it harshly just because someone has a negayive comment.
> 
> I do believe that mma players need to have a better foundation before jumping into the fightgame. I see sloppy techniques from the younger guys.


 
I disagree, the younger fighters are better all rounders, more complete MMA fighters than many who started with one style and added on.
British and European fighters come from traditional backgrounds and are well versed in techniques. I can't think of many if any fighter here who didn't start with a traditional style and spent years doing it before fighting MMA. The Russians especially are very strong as they come from a Sambo background.
Many negative comments are made about MMA where they wouldn't been made about another style. People would get very snippy if I as a non JKD practioner criticised their art by comparing it unfavourably to MMA.
This may be a culturally difference as I know you tend to call people of either sex guys but I'm just checking that you don't mean just male fighters when you say it?


----------



## Laoshi77 (Oct 8, 2008)

Brian S said:


> I do believe that mma players need to have a better foundation before jumping into the fightgame. I see sloppy techniques from the younger guys.


 
Absolutely agree. Foundation is key, something I might refer to as a 'core' art rather than the 'jack-of-all-trades' type fighter that you often see in MMA.
Likewise this would be relevant also to the OP and JKD as I have heard people say it is more difficult to attain a high level of skill in JKD unless you have the 'core' skill that Wing Chun, Taijiquan (Tai Chi) and Qigong establishes.


----------



## Nolerama (Oct 8, 2008)

Laoshi77 said:


> Absolutely agree. Foundation is key, something I might refer to as a 'core' art rather than the 'jack-of-all-trades' type fighter that you often see in MMA.
> Likewise this would be relevant also to the OP and JKD as I have heard people say it is more difficult to attain a high level of skill in JKD unless you have the 'core' skill that Wing Chun, Taijiquan (Tai Chi) and Qigong establishes.



I empathize with your perspective and understand that for some people, there needs to be a "core" TMA base for an MMA fighter.

But I don't agree with it. Wholeheartedly.

I think that many MMA schools, gyms, and clubs are focusing on the concept of an Athlete as a trainee. Natural athletes are physically adept and will pick up technique faster, and acclimate themselves to seeking effecient technique, with high percentage success rates. I know a LOT of TMA-based-turned-MMA folks who rely on their old TMA in sparring. Myself included. Personally, I think it's a drawback at times.

I don't think that there ever needs to be a prerequisite for MMA, in any range. Some schools are even throwing the whole ranking/belt concept out the window. Who cares what your belt color is when you can't perform? Some are even moving out of BJJ academies and focusing on submission wrestling, taking from a variety of different grappling arts. 

It's not a shame to be an MMA person with little or no TMA background. It's an honor to be a part of something new, and to constantly (without ego) evolve and see what's better, what ranks up there in high percentage moves, and what works.


----------



## Skpotamus (Oct 8, 2008)

I've heard that having a core system is great for MMA, but I don't know if the core skillset is really that beneficial for fighters. The development of a well rounded game is what makes for champions. The "jack of all trades" development that lets them fight comfortably in different ranges where they have an edge over their opponent. 

The current standout champions in each weightclass all have well rounded fight games and win their fights by exploiting their opponents weaknesses and bringing the game into another realm.  
BJ Penn has good boxing skills with great submissions.
Georges St. Pierre has phenominal wrestling with really good striking.
Anderson Silva has good striking with a great ground game.
Fedor Emilenenko has great standup with phenominal submissions. 
Even though he's not the champ anymore, Chuck Liddell had good striking, with incredible wrestling. 
Forrest Griffin - good standup with a good ground game
Randy Coutore - good wrestling with good boxing.

For others a core skillset can be a hindrance to the development of their other skillsets 
Maurice Smith - elite world class kickboxer, no ground game
Mark Coleman - olympic caliber wrestling, no submissions or standup
Kevin Randleman - carbon copy of coleman
Mark Kerr - carbon copy of coleman and randleman
Tom Erickson - carbon copy of coleman, kerr, randleman
Royce Gracie - elite level submission game, no wrestling ability and no striking
Matt Hughes - dominant grappler with elite weight cutting abilities (he was huge compared to his opponents), limited submission game and zero striking.  
Kevin Jackson - Olympic Gold Medalist in wrestling, never bothered to learn submissions or striking.
Kenny Monday - same as jackson


Their expertise in each of their particular core styles lead them to rely on it instead of trying to fix their weaknesses by expanding their games. Some of them dominated competition for a while, then the competition developed more well rounded games and the old champions that were dominant in one thing fell as younger fighters learned how to negate their game and force the fight into a realm the older champs weren't comfortable with.

Even elite level skills aren't a gauranteed way to win.  The current champs are good at everything, but most aren't world class in any individual area.


----------

