# serious help needed.



## CuongNhuka (Jun 21, 2007)

OK, here's the situation. I'm in JROTC, no big deal. We have a team called Raider, which is supposed to be the JROTC version of the Rangers. I'm on the team, and we do marksmanship as an event (air rifle, standing, kneeling, prone... usual deal). I'm also thinking about joining the Marines, which have a marksmanship requirement. I have about three months before I have anything to worry about, but I still want to get some practice in.
I dont have a Hunting License (required at every Range near me), my Mom cann't moniture me (the alternitive), and my dad is out of the picture. I am air rifle qualified, but no hunting license.
I was thinking I could get some pipe and fill it with concrete. It'd weigh a ton, and I could hold the differnit postions for like 3 minutes each. So, if nothing else, my body is getting used to the postion. Kinda like posture training in karate/kung fu.
Comments, tips, and suggestions would all be apperciated.


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## Marvin (Jun 22, 2007)

Do you have a place you can practice dry firing? The sight picture and trigger squeeze practice will help you much more than lugging around a cement filled pipe. As to the marksmanship requirement in the Marines, that is something that is done during boot camp after you enlist, not a requirement to join. And don't worry &#8220;The Corps&#8221; will show you exactly how they want you to shoot.


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## kaizasosei (Jun 22, 2007)

i don't have all that much experience but i did do some army service and i enjoy shooting when i have the chance.  i'm hoping to join a gunclub and do some more practice in the future. as i am to inherit some fa.

maybe for fast shotgun action one would need to move quickly, but generaly, i think being stable and still would be more important that physical strength although the strength might be good, a gun need not be swung around like a sword or stick..
 i found the stillness is a strange type of stability. all kinds of forces need to be countered and controlled in order to guide the projectile.  breath, heartbloodcirculation, wind, gravity i heard even earth curvature.  way more heady than the instinctive cut of a sword...or maybe i'm just not that good of a shooter?? 
compared to a gun, i feel a sword is like a flexible weapon like a chain or ropedart.
well, actually, i guess a huge bar like that will definately get you to use your body more efficiently.

j


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## CuongNhuka (Jun 22, 2007)

I probably could try to find a place to dry fire, but I couldn't even begin to geuss were. And as for the Marine part, it's just kinda one of those things I'd like to know I can do before I get in. Also why I'm working on my 2 mile. I got like 5 minutes to cut off my time, I don't want to just skate by because some guy was running behind me cracking a bullwhip shouting "run fatty, run!"
Anyways, any other tips for me?


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## CoryKS (Jun 22, 2007)

I'm a former Marine who qualified Expert on every trip to the range.  My advice is to continue working on your PE and don't worry about marksmanship.  My PMI told us that the best shooters are generally the recruits with little to no previous experience because they don't have any bad habits to break.  Believe me, you _will _be sitting in the positions for hours, day after day.


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## CuongNhuka (Jun 22, 2007)

kaizasosei said:


> i don't have all that much experience but i did do some army service and i enjoy shooting when i have the chance. i'm hoping to join a gunclub and do some more practice in the future. as i am to inherit some fa.
> 
> maybe for fast shotgun action one would need to move quickly, but generaly, i think being stable and still would be more important that physical strength although the strength might be good, a gun need not be swung around like a sword or stick..
> i found the stillness is a strange type of stability. all kinds of forces need to be countered and controlled in order to guide the projectile. breath, heartbloodcirculation, wind, gravity i heard even earth curvature. way more heady than the instinctive cut of a sword...or maybe i'm just not that good of a shooter??
> ...


 
Keep in mind that for now, this is about target shooting. Worrying about more combative shooting will come latter.


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## CuongNhuka (Jun 22, 2007)

CoryKS said:


> I'm a former Marine who qualified Expert on every trip to the range. My advice is to continue working on your PE and don't worry about marksmanship. My PMI told us that the best shooters are generally the recruits with little to no previous experience because they don't have any bad habits to break. Believe me, you _will _be sitting in the positions for hours, day after day.


 
I would do that, but like I said, at the moment I have to worry about it for Raider Team. I'm getting marksmanship tips from the basic soldiering manuel, well a back issue. I'm not too worried about breaking habits, mostly getting to do better then 68 out of a max of 300. And, yes I am serious. That is about my average.


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## CoryKS (Jun 22, 2007)

CuongNhuka said:


> I would do that, but like I said, at the moment I have to worry about it for Raider Team. I'm getting marksmanship tips from the basic soldiering manuel, well a back issue. I'm not too worried about breaking habits, mostly getting to do better then 68 out of a max of 300. And, yes I am serious. That is about my average.


 
Here's something that might be worth looking into.


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## Ninjamom (Jun 22, 2007)

Marvin said:


> And don't worry The Corps will show you exactly how they want you to shoot.


Best advice on subject!


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## Marvin (Jun 22, 2007)

CuongNhuka said:


> I probably could try to find a place to dry fire, but I couldn't even begin to geuss were. And as for the Marine part, it's just kinda one of those things I'd like to know I can do before I get in. Also why I'm working on my 2 mile. I got like 5 minutes to cut off my time, I don't want to just skate by because some guy was running behind me cracking a bullwhip shouting "run fatty, run!"
> Anyways, any other tips for me?


 
 Then you would probably be better served working on your pt skills than your shooting skills I.M.O. When I was in the service, the slow/heavy guys got dogged mercilessly. You don't want to be the last in anything in that type of organization.


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## SKB (Jun 22, 2007)

When I was in the Corps I spent some time wrking as marksmanship instrutor and even took a group of recruits through their first time at the range. The best thing you can do is let the Corps show you how to shoot if you do not know how at the moment!!! The worst to teach are the people who are sure they already know how to shoot!!!!! You can not get any better training then what you wil then!!!

On the other thing you stated....... YOU NEED TO GET IN SHAPE AND THE SOONER THE BETTER!!!!! You don't want to be a diet private!!!!


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## CoryKS (Jun 22, 2007)

SKB said:


> On the other thing you stated....... YOU NEED TO GET IN SHAPE AND THE SOONER THE BETTER!!!!! You don't want to be a diet private!!!!


 
hehe, red bars on the sweatshirt.  Oh, the shame...


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## Carol (Jun 22, 2007)

CuongNhuka, 

Focus IMMENSELY on your physical conditioning right now, because it will help you both with the Raiders as well as with your future plans.

As you improve your cardio-fitness, you will be able to better control your heart rate and breathing.

The better you can control your heart rate and breathing, the better marksman you will be...both with the Raiders and with The Corps.

A serious dedication to weight loss and cardio-fitness will not be quick, but it can be done if you pledge yourself to making it happen.

Good luck, and go get 'em.


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## Fang (Jun 22, 2007)

Try to get to a point where your 'rest' is when you're on the run meaning running... Let the corps show you how to shoot you will be dealing with different weapons that have different trigger pressures and different types of recoil. Work on your rotc sure but be very open to instruction when it comes about.


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## Fang (Jun 22, 2007)

Also you might pick up a vhs on marine corp rifle drills to get a jump start. Lots of third world countries train their troops with wooden rifles or even sticks before the real thing. Learning to manipulate your weapon off range will also be an important part of your units presentation.


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## jks9199 (Jun 22, 2007)

CuongNhuka said:


> I probably could try to find a place to dry fire, but I couldn't even begin to geuss were. And as for the Marine part, it's just kinda one of those things I'd like to know I can do before I get in. Also why I'm working on my 2 mile. I got like 5 minutes to cut off my time, I don't want to just skate by because some guy was running behind me cracking a bullwhip shouting "run fatty, run!"
> Anyways, any other tips for me?


The last thing you want to try to do is learn "a little shooting."  The USMC will teach you to shoot; they've mastered teaching people to be expert rifle marksmen in short order.  The hardest person to teach shooting is someone who "can already shoot."  They have so many undesired and unproductive habits that have to be overcome that many firearms instructors hate working with them...

For now, I'd concentrate on PT instead of worrying about shooting.  And have fun with the Raider Team.


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## CuongNhuka (Jun 22, 2007)

CoryKS said:


> Here's something that might be worth looking into.


 
looking into buying it.


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## CuongNhuka (Jun 22, 2007)

Marvin said:


> Then you would probably be better served working on your pt skills than your shooting skills I.M.O. When I was in the service, the slow/heavy guys got dogged mercilessly. You don't want to be the last in anything in that type of organization.


 
I'm not actlualy fat (pudgy I'll give you). I just used that as an example. I'm a great sprinter, but I have a hard time with distance. And like I said, I still need to worry about it for Raider team.


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## CuongNhuka (Jun 22, 2007)

SKB said:


> When I was in the Corps I spent some time wrking as marksmanship instrutor and even took a group of recruits through their first time at the range. The best thing you can do is let the Corps show you how to shoot if you do not know how at the moment!!! The worst to teach are the people who are sure they already know how to shoot!!!!! You can not get any better training then what you wil then!!!
> 
> On the other thing you stated....... YOU NEED TO GET IN SHAPE AND THE SOONER THE BETTER!!!!! You don't want to be a diet private!!!!


 
How does running help me with point shooting in the mean time? I know (sorta) how to fire. I just need practice. I know what you guys are saying though. I got some Army buddys, maybe I'll get them to give me some one-on-one practice. 2 marksman, 3 experts in the Army. Granted one is a guardsman, LOL.


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## CuongNhuka (Jun 22, 2007)

Carol Kaur said:


> Good luck, and go get 'em.


 
HOOAH MA'AM!


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## CuongNhuka (Jun 22, 2007)

Fang said:


> Try to get to a point where your 'rest' is when you're on the run meaning running... Let the corps show you how to shoot you will be dealing with different weapons that have different trigger pressures and different types of recoil. Work on your rotc sure but be very open to instruction when it comes about.


 
Oh, of course. I'm just looking for somthing to help me with my target shooting while I wait. I know a guy who set a couple state records, qualified expert with the NRA. He's a marksman with the Guard now.


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## CuongNhuka (Jun 22, 2007)

Fang said:


> Also you might pick up a vhs on marine corp rifle drills to get a jump start. Lots of third world countries train their troops with wooden rifles or even sticks before the real thing. Learning to manipulate your weapon off range will also be an important part of your units presentation.


 
We have a drill team. Most of the members are trying to draft me onto the team. Problem is they do STEPPING, and their stepping conflicts massively with my Karate stepping. So, I cann't go to any compitions, so they now(having realised this) dont anything to do with me. Which would be the easiest way to work on that.


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## CuongNhuka (Jun 22, 2007)

jks9199 said:


> The last thing you want to try to do is learn "a little shooting." The USMC will teach you to shoot; they've mastered teaching people to be expert rifle marksmen in short order. The hardest person to teach shooting is someone who "can already shoot." They have so many undesired and unproductive habits that have to be overcome that many firearms instructors hate working with them...
> 
> For now, I'd concentrate on PT instead of worrying about shooting. And have fun with the Raider Team.


 
I know, I'm getting that as my general impression. I'm thinking of getting some instruction from guys who are already in the military and qualifed expert or marksman. Like I said, I still need to work on it for Raider team.


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## jks9199 (Jun 22, 2007)

CuongNhuka said:


> I know, I'm getting that as my general impression. I'm thinking of getting some instruction from guys who are already in the military and qualifed expert or marksman. Like I said, I still need to work on it for Raider team.


You're only getting half the message...

I'm a fair pistol shot; I typically qualify expert, with scores that are above 240 on a 50 round/250 point course of fire.  And I can coach another shooter a little bit; we can work together and make each other a bit better.  But I'm not a shooting instructor. 

If you really want to learn to shoot -- contact the NRA.  At least they have a solid program that won't teach you bad habits, and they have actual instructors.


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## CuongNhuka (Jun 22, 2007)

jks9199 said:


> You're only getting half the message...
> 
> I'm a fair pistol shot; I typically qualify expert, with scores that are above 240 on a 50 round/250 point course of fire. And I can coach another shooter a little bit; we can work together and make each other a bit better. But I'm not a shooting instructor.
> 
> If you really want to learn to shoot -- contact the NRA. At least they have a solid program that won't teach you bad habits, and they have actual instructors.


 
I'm not talking about drafting one of you guys into this. I meant getting my JROTC instructors to. They both qualify expert consistently. And they don't use the NRA stance and such, they use the old-school military taught stance.


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## Tez3 (Jun 23, 2007)

I picked this up on the new posts because I like the original poster lol! I know very little about shooting but I do know a lot about the military. One of the places I work at is the Infantry Training Centre which trains recruits to go into the Paras and the Infantry regiments, I have also had a lot to do with the Royal Marines, SBS and SAS though not operationally.

I reiterate the previous advice of getting your fitness sorted first.Stamina is everything, they don't want hares they want tortoises albeit a bit faster  ( well you know what I mean lol)  One problem recruits here have is that they've never worn boots only training shoes. Carrying heavy bergens tends to knacker them too. Learning to shoot is the least of their problems as I know that they, like the instructors already mentioned, prefer to teach total beginners. The Paras also have 'milling' where they have to put big boxing gloves on and spar with each other. The standard is low, I can easily beat most of the lads but that's not what is looked for, it's about aggression and not backing down. 

I had to laugh at the description of the drill team, my other half did a tour in the Queen's Colour Squadron of the Royal Air Force Regiment ( RAF Regt also known as Rockapes - try googling that lot) and were at a big Tattoo doing a display where there was an American Drill Squad too, we had to laugh bless them, they had plastic weapons to throw around and patent leather boots instead of the SLR's and bulled boots of our lot! 

http://www.rafregt.com/qcs.htm


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## CuongNhuka (Jun 23, 2007)

I'm getting that as my impression, and thanks! I like you too! 
And my impression of the drill done by the service, that you saw, is about getting recruits. Like having a thousand trouphies set up around a Dojo to impression little kids and their folks. Most U.S. soldiers don't really know any drill. My JROTC instructor said he had to spend days going through the drill and ceremony manuel because he knew NONE of the drill he had to teach the drill teams. Drill focus = minimal. From my understanding.


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## SKB (Jun 25, 2007)

Sounds like you need to find you a Marine or two to talk to! Every Marine is a drill master. expert rifleman, lean, mean fighting machine out of boot camp!!!!!!!!!!! Really shooting and being in good shape go hand in hand. You have to be able to get and hold the positions. You also need to have what Tez3 was talking about!!!!!! If you are going to boot camp soon you need to get ready for the whole deal not just the shooting part!!!!


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## CuongNhuka (Jun 25, 2007)

Dont worry, I got over a year to go. I could (legaly) sign up and go to boot camp now, but I dont think that is such a good idea. Meaning, my mom wont let me.
I was thinking of getting some Army guys I know to help me out with this. I dont know any Marines.


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## CoryKS (Jun 26, 2007)

CuongNhuka said:


> I was thinking of getting some Army guys I know to help me out with this. I dont know any Marines.


 
Okay, now you're just baiting us.   Seriously, though -  What training have you had as part of your shooting team?  Have they discussed breathing, relaxation, sight alignment, sight picture, trigger squeeze?  Do you use a sling?  Working on any one of these ought to get you up from a 68.


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## Tez3 (Jun 26, 2007)

CoryKS said:


> *Okay, now you're just baiting us*.  Seriously, though - What training have you had as part of your shooting team? Have they discussed breathing, relaxation, sight alignment, sight picture, trigger squeeze? Do you use a sling? Working on any one of these ought to get you up from a 68.


 

He needs to meet a *Royal Marine* *Commando* really!* >* backs away very quietly having started a flame war lol  :flame:

http://www.how2become.co.uk/royalmarines.htm?keyword=|googlemarines|royalmarines

Seriously though some good advice on this site that's valid whatever you plan to join. All about being prepared!


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## CoryKS (Jun 26, 2007)

Tez3 said:


> He needs to meet a *Royal Marine* *Commando* really!* >*


 
Or one of these guys.


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## CuongNhuka (Jun 26, 2007)

CoryKS said:


> Okay, now you're just baiting us.  Seriously, though - What training have you had as part of your shooting team? Have they discussed breathing, relaxation, sight alignment, sight picture, trigger squeeze? Do you use a sling? Working on any one of these ought to get you up from a 68.


 
Yes we have. No slings allowed though. The problem is I CANN'T GET PRACTICE! which sucks. And is my problem. 
And how am I baiting you?


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## SKB (Jun 26, 2007)

OK I GOT THIS ONE!!!!!!!!!!
Any time you start to tell one service you got to go to members of another service for help you are going to tick off the guys in the first service!!!!!


> I was thinking of getting some Army guys I know to help me out with this.


 
Someone posted about looking up some NRA folks. That would be better then asking the Army for help :angel:. Anyway............... Focus on what you can do now and let the Corps handle the parts you cant do now to when you get there. Your joining the biggest gun club in the world!!!

And Tez3 you can't stir it up between US Marines and Royal Marines that easily!!!!!


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## CoryKS (Jun 26, 2007)

SKB said:


> OK I GOT THIS ONE!!!!!!!!!!
> Any time you start to tell one service you got to go to members of another service for help you are going to tick off the guys in the first service!!!!!


 
Yep.  It's all in jest, though.  We love our Army brothers n sisters.  :asian:


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