# Things that make me go hmmm



## Xue Sheng (Nov 25, 2009)

Had a thought this morning.

First I have to make it perfectly clear that I am not thinking about making my own style.... please allow me to repeat that... I am NOT thinking about making my own style.

I was however thinking today that if you combined Sanda (non-spot) with Xingyiquan Nigong and a bit of either taijiquan qigong and/or Ba duan jin you could have one heck of a good fighting style that also deals with the internal aspects with no actual forms. 

Actually I was thinking Sanda, Xingyiquan Nigong and some of the philosophy of Taijiquan as a combination and that, IMO, would be a pretty damn powerful combo. I threw in Taijiquan qigong and Ba duan jin just because I have done them for so long.

Just had to throw that out there to get it out on my brain.


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## Tensei85 (Nov 25, 2009)

So are you thinking about making your own style? haha, just kidding!

Interesting perspective, I would like to see how it plays out. Makes sense though.


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## wushuguy (Nov 25, 2009)

Mixing a few arts we know a good way to improve ourselves. sometimes when we mix things up in training, it does help us understand various aspects of each separate art better....


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## blindsage (Nov 25, 2009)

WHAT!!! No circle walking?!?!?!?  I'm so very, very disappointed.


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## Xue Sheng (Nov 25, 2009)

Tensei85 said:


> So are you thinking about making your own style? haha, just kidding!


 
:tantrum: How many times must I...... :hmm: yes..I MEAN NO!!!! 



Tensei85 said:


> Interesting perspective, I would like to see how it plays out. Makes sense though.


 
I was just looking at the actual training of Sanda, which is rather hard (but more internal than any self-respecting Sanda Sifu is willing to admit) in combination with Xingyi Neigong training. I would also add some of Xingyiquan style stance training to that as well, not Santi but Zhan Zhuang. It would, IMO, leave you with some internal aspects and rooting that I like in combination with some just plain straight forward fighting. It was just an interesting thought



wushuguy said:


> Mixing a few arts we know a good way to improve ourselves. sometimes when we mix things up in training, it does help us understand various aspects of each separate art better....


 
I don't really plan on mixing anything, other than in my demented little brain, but I do believe that this type of thinking can, at times, help one understand a style a little better.


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## Xue Sheng (Nov 25, 2009)

blindsage said:


> WHAT!!! No circle walking?!?!?!? I'm so very, very disappointed.


 
Circle walking phhfft... who needs circle walking, REAL men just stand there and don't move (see Santi Shi)


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## clfsean (Nov 25, 2009)

Besides circles can be walked in a straight line... just slightly curvy...


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## Xue Sheng (Nov 25, 2009)

And Drunken style was born 


Edit added much later

On a more serious note xingyiquan does have slightly curvy lines... well not so much curvy but it does have directions other than straight and Sanda has no set pattern as one might apply to Bagua or Xingyi


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## yak sao (Nov 25, 2009)

Since you're thinking of making your own style......
wouldn't you say because you've studied multiple MA that in essence, you've already done that? I would say we are all a sum total of the arts we have studied.


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## Xue Sheng (Nov 25, 2009)

yak sao said:


> Since you're thinking of making your own style......
> wouldn't you say because you've studied multiple MA that in essence, you've already done that? I would say we are all a sum total of the arts we have studied.


 
Well I'm not thinking of making my own style, but all the arts we study do make up what we do to some extent. However you can leave things behind as you focus on another. I had to do that to actually start understanding what Taiji was doing.


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## Tensei85 (Nov 25, 2009)

So Grandmaster Xue (ehhh that has a nice ring to it!)
Since your making up your own style what will the name of this said style be? Not Xue Kwon Do is it? Or Xue Fu maybe?

Haha, just kidding once again! Please do not take anything I have just said seriously...

Ok no more jokes from this side lol!


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## Ironcrane (Nov 26, 2009)

Have you started experimenting with this combination? Do you have any partners to work with?


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## Xue Sheng (Nov 28, 2009)

Tensei85 said:


> So Grandmaster Xue (ehhh that has a nice ring to it!)
> Since your making up your own style what will the name of this said style be? Not Xue Kwon Do is it? Or Xue Fu maybe?
> 
> Haha, just kidding once again! Please do not take anything I have just said seriously...
> ...


 
Well to be honest, Xuefu already exists and it is by far the most deadly art in the world, pssoibly the Universe and I cannot tell you what it is a combination of, since it is by far to deadly a secret to give out... but both the East and West coast are covered


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## Xue Sheng (Nov 28, 2009)

Ironcrane said:


> Have you started experimenting with this combination? Do you have any partners to work with?


 
No this is purely based on thought I truly have no intention of creating another style.


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## oxy (Nov 28, 2009)

> I was however thinking today that if you combined Sanda (non-spot) with Xingyiquan Nigong and a bit of either taijiquan qigong and/or Ba duan jin you could have one heck of a good fighting style that also deals with the internal aspects *with no actual forms*.



How will you teach it?



Xue Sheng said:


> Had a thought this morning.
> 
> First I have to make it perfectly clear that I am not thinking about making my own style.... please allow me to repeat that... I am NOT thinking about making my own style.



Maybe just make your own form.



> Actually I was thinking Sanda, Xingyiquan Nigong and some of the philosophy of Taijiquan as a combination and that, IMO, would be a pretty damn powerful combo. I threw in Taijiquan qigong and Ba duan jin just because I have done them for so long.
> 
> Just had to throw that out there to get it out on my brain.



I've always liked how I was taught 7* Praying Mantis before LHBF and the combos you could make up. They actually flow to each other quite well, along with the other straight line non-LHBF forms we learn as well.

How well does Taiji and Xingyi and Sanda flow into each other, in your experience?


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## Tensei85 (Nov 29, 2009)

> oxy said:
> 
> 
> > I've always liked how I was taught 7* Praying Mantis before LHBF and the combos you could make up. They actually flow to each other quite well, along with the other straight line non-LHBF forms we learn as well.
> ...


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## Xue Sheng (Nov 30, 2009)

oxy said:


> How will you teach it?


 
I won't&#8230;. this whole idea is simply a mental exercise not a physical one



oxy said:


> How well does Taiji and Xingyi and Sanda flow into each other, in your experience?


 
Actually, IMO, Sanda sits somewhere in between the 2 (taiji and Xingyi) as well as way outside of both. It just seemed that Sanda was trying real hard to NOT use the term Qi or internal in it's approach to training while using much of the same concepts only the names have been changed to avoid the arguments

But then it is also rather different which basically leads to it is the same thing but different.... and as much as that description does not answer anything what-so-ever it is the best I can do.

It just seems to me that the internal training of Xingyiquan, including some of the stance training would lend itself rather well to Sanda. And all I have to go on is a feeling and there were places where Sanda reminded me of Taiji and places where it reminded me of Xingyiquan and some places it was just sanda


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## scottm (Nov 30, 2009)

You are making your own style.  But here's the difference.  There is such thing as a "personal style" as opposed a "full featured martial system".

There is nothing wrong with developing your own personal style by taking features al la carte from the styles you know.  I think people only get touchy is when someone takes a time honored system and tries to fundamentally change it.

I've personally been trying to apply Xingyi principles of alignments and such to wing chun.  Can't say I've been successfully, but no one really ever knows that, do we?


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## oxy (Dec 1, 2009)

Tensei85 said:


> I'm curious coming from a mainly 7 * Mantis & Wing Chun background myself, what are the parallels that you have found between 7 * & Liu he ba fa?
> 
> Can you ellaborate how you have found them to flow well in your experience?
> 
> Thanks just curious, as my knowledge of LHBF is rather limited to say the least.



Well, the first thing that comes to mind is that in both 7* and LHBF, elbows are down. From what I've seen of Wing Chun on Youtube, that seems to be case for it as well. Contrast that to Taiji where for example, in cloud hands or in some versions of single whip, the elbows are frequently pushed out (we call it flying elbows). So structurally, LHBF and 7* are quite similar. "Elbows down" is focused on very early. It seems like it's a very superficial thing but it affects everything (everything from qinna protection to relaxation to power generation), at least the way I am taught it.

Praying mantis is known for its hooked hands. LHBF actually has a surprisingly large number of attack/defence applications where we hook away an attack to defend or open up the opponent. My understanding of 7* is that it doesn't seek to make prolonged contact with the opponent. Just enough to deflect or to enter. LHBF is more like that than, for contrast, Taiji, where sticking to an opponent is important.

LHBF footwork is very much like Xingyi and Bagua when actually using it (but we also have a Xingyi-step like action for bow stances) and from looking 7* on Youtube, it seems many other schools of 7* have an implicit Xingyi-step like action for bow stances as well.

For me, they flow into each other quite easily since they have a shared policy of minimal contact and also of tying the opponent up by blocking the free movement of the arms.


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## oxy (Dec 1, 2009)

Xue Sheng said:


> I won't. this whole idea is simply a mental exercise not a physical one



I was approaching that as a mental exercise as well. Theoretically, how would you try to get concepts across without some kind of form, is basically what I was asking.


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## Xue Sheng (Dec 2, 2009)

oxy said:


> I was approaching that as a mental exercise as well. Theoretically, how would you try to get concepts across without some kind of form, is basically what I was asking.


 
Just thinking about it I can only speculate that in the beginning it would be rather boring training for most.

The Xingyi bits are standing training which is far from exciting and generally painful and Xingyi Neigong which is not all that exciting, working on internal and at times it hurts the rest is Sanda which would be pretty much a whole lot of drills, which are rather repetitive and painful and then physical training, sit-ups, push-ups, pull-ups kind of thing. Later you get into 2 person apps and sparing. 

The key however, IMO, would be to get the internal to a point where the physical training worked at a more internal level and that would take a lot of time. 

What you could possibly end up with is a MA that is far from pretty to watch, with no actual forms that is rather direct, fast and hits like a truck with Qinna and Shuaijiao. Not all that different from other CMA styles actually


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## celtic_crippler (Dec 2, 2009)

Each individual's experiences, including their martial training, combine to make a uniquely individual style regardless of what we claim to train in. 

So, in essence, you are creating your own style every time you train and/or cross train. 

If you find value in the teachings of many arts (many of us do) then run with it! 

Though I mainly claim American Kenpo as my "art", I've trained in others and they and my experiences combine to make "my own style." I routinely mix & match...often without even thinking about it. If it works it works, doesn't matter what you call it. 

Just don't hide your findings and results. Share them with the rest of us so we too can benefit from your experience.


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