# Carrying weapons



## Laborn (Dec 11, 2005)

Ok, i carry a little knife with me sometimes for protection if someone jumps me with a knife. How many other martial artist carry weaponds with them? My old instructer would carry a little stick on the end of his key chain. i just figure it's safer to carry weaponds incase you have to fight someone with a weapon.

And it seems to me that most attackers out there will be armed, i've never seen or been in a fight where weaponds weren't involved, sticks, knives, bats. So does anyone have any ideas of a little concealed weapond beside a knife?


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## OULobo (Dec 11, 2005)

Laborn said:
			
		

> Ok, i carry a little knife with me sometimes for protection if someone jumps me with a knife. How many other martial artist carry weaponds with them? My old instructer would carry a little stick on the end of his key chain. i just figure it's safer to carry weaponds incase you have to fight someone with a weapon.
> 
> And it seems to me that most attackers out there will be armed, i've never seen or been in a fight where weaponds weren't involved, sticks, knives, bats. So does anyone have any ideas of a little concealed weapond beside a knife?


 
A .357 snub nosed revolver. I carry often if I am in situations that warrent, like carrying larger sums of cash, ect. I usually carry mutiple knives and a fist load/palm stick. The best weapons to carry are "improvised" ones, because you already have them for other reasons. I personally like my keys and belt. If you train just a little on how to use them when you need them, they allow for more security in unexpected confrontations.


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## tshadowchaser (Dec 11, 2005)

I walk with one of my canes much of the time and i have been known to carry a knife or 3


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## terryl965 (Dec 11, 2005)

I have a Hide a chunk in my vehicle at all times and my Butteryfly knife handy but Lucky for me I have neer had to use them.
Terry


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## Grenadier (Dec 11, 2005)

Glock 26, stuffed with 12 rounds of Winchester Ranger 127 grain +P+ JHP (regular magazine, +1 Pearce extender, one in the chamber).  

Otherwise, I always have a knife on me.  Most of the time, it's a Spyderco Police, but in some states where they don't allow blades of greater than 3" long, I'll switch to my Spyderco Delica II (serrated edge).  If someone's going to come within hand to hand combat distance, I want the fight to be over quickly, and not give the other guy a chance to win.


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## still learning (Dec 11, 2005)

Hello, A good pair of running feet.  Old and slow but it still works! Kept in pants and always ready?   Verbal works too?  Try not to carry too many of them.  


So far the law allows us to carry  both of them.......................Aloha


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## arnisador (Dec 11, 2005)

On occasion, a pocket knife.


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## bignick (Dec 11, 2005)

I'll carry a pocket knife sometimes...not always for defense...but it is useful to have around.  Otherwise I'll carry around a mini-mag flashlight or an expandable baton.


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## sgtmac_46 (Dec 12, 2005)

Grenadier said:
			
		

> Glock 26, stuffed with 12 rounds of Winchester Ranger 127 grain +P+ JHP (regular magazine, +1 Pearce extender, one in the chamber).
> 
> Otherwise, I always have a knife on me. Most of the time, it's a Spyderco Police, but in some states where they don't allow blades of greater than 3" long, I'll switch to my Spyderco Delica II (serrated edge). If someone's going to come within hand to hand combat distance, I want the fight to be over quickly, and not give the other guy a chance to win.


 Good choice.  

I carry a Glock 22 .40 with a 15 + 1 of Federal Hydra-shoks, or if i'm really concerned about concealibility i'll carry the Glock 27 .40 with the same loads.  155 Grain summer, 185 Grain winter (clothing differences).  1 extra-magazine And I carry a good folder, my Emerson, CKT, or Benchmade.

That's if i'm off-duty and going to the a store on a milk run.

If I were expecting trouble (which I usually am at work) I would never want to bring just a pistol to a gun fight.  I always have handy in the patrol car a Benelli M2 Tactical 12 gauge, Colt M4 carbine in .223 and a scoped Springfield Arms Socom 16 in .308, depending on the range I was expecting.  Not concealable, but real fight stoppers.

By the way, my Benelli sits close to my bed.  If i'm comfronted in my living room, I won't have a pistol in my hand.  It'll be 7 rounds of 000 Buck, each load carrying 8 .36 projectiles.  If that doesn't do the job, i'm in serious trouble.   Most people grab pants if they hear an intruder.  I'd rather show up naked with a Benelli in hand.  Either the shotgun or me naked will subdue any intruder.  Besides, the alternative is the last sight they see being me naked.


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## MJS (Dec 12, 2005)

Laborn said:
			
		

> Ok, i carry a little knife with me sometimes for protection if someone jumps me with a knife. How many other martial artist carry weaponds with them? My old instructer would carry a little stick on the end of his key chain. i just figure it's safer to carry weaponds incase you have to fight someone with a weapon.
> 
> And it seems to me that most attackers out there will be armed, i've never seen or been in a fight where weaponds weren't involved, sticks, knives, bats. So does anyone have any ideas of a little concealed weapond beside a knife?


 
I don't carry a weapon such as a knife or gun, but if we looked at the imprivised weapons that are always around us, we in fact all carry some sort of weapon.  While they may not inflict as much lethal force as a knife or gun, a set of keys, a pen or pencil are items that are readily available for use.

Mike


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## Henderson (Dec 12, 2005)

More for practical reasons rather than defense, I always carry my Benchmade folder. My asp (expandable baton) is readily available in the door pocket of my car. Used to carry a Ruger P90 .45....it was a litle bulky, but I eventually sold it to buy my iaito.


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## INDYFIGHTER (Dec 12, 2005)

Just bought a Kel-tec 380 and I'm loving it.  It's as thin as my wallet.  I also carry a clip knife.  It's a Gerber.


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## pete (Dec 12, 2005)

so who of you "carrying" have actually "used"... 

to speak directly to those who describe their weapon as the next great piece of technology,  how does it feel when the bullet or blade cuts through the flesh, organs, and blood vessels and extinguishes a life.

not playing the morality game, but would just like to know if its all techo-nerd talk, or you guys are using those things you spend your hard earned cash for the reasons they were made... to kill.

pete.


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## Henderson (Dec 12, 2005)

As I said in my original response, I carry my knife more for practical reasons...ie, cutting up boxes at work, etc.  The asp stays in the car, just in case.  As far as the money issue goes...I get my blades wholesale, and the asp was a whopping $16. :supcool:


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## Henderson (Dec 12, 2005)

pete said:
			
		

> or you guys are using those things you spend your hard earned cash for the reasons they were made... to kill.


 
Sorry, Pete!  To answer your question....no, of course not.

Respects, 
Frank


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## pete (Dec 12, 2005)

no worries frank, i wasn't refering to the pen knives and tools for work...


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## splazzatch (Dec 12, 2005)

I carry a pocket knife when I am not at work althought I would never use it for defense, I wouldn't want to ruin it. I used to carry one of those sticks on my key chain but I found that to be to  much of a hassle with the keys on the end so I ditched it and instead just make sure I have a pen in my pocket I splurge and I buy some of the more expensive pens that won't break right away..


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## Nanalo74 (Dec 12, 2005)

I live in New York, which is very hard on citizens with weapons. Not to mention I can imagine the horror show of a trial if I actually carved somebody up. 

Exhibit A - the website
Exhibit B - the business cards
Exhibit C - the magazine ads
Exhibit D - the DVDs

Yeesh!

I carry a piece of metal that used to go to my car jack. It's about 6" long, fits in my pocket, and makes for a nice blunt object.
A bundle of sharpened pencils held together by rubber bands works nicely also.

Vic www.combatartsusa.com


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## ed-swckf (Dec 12, 2005)

I don't carry weapons.


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## Phoenix44 (Dec 12, 2005)

Ya know, in my work, I pass through metal detectors and have my bags x-rayed so many times, it's not even worth it.

Fortunately, everybody else goes through the same metal detectors and x-rays.

So I'd say a few years of empty-handed training puts me at an advantage.


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## Solidman82 (Dec 12, 2005)

Well, for weapons I either carry a folding knife but usually only if I have something I actually need to cut other then a human. My trusty keychain mostly for if I ever need to get into my house but if you have skill with nunchaku then they become quite a nice defense tool.

I wouldn't think of carryiing a gun because where I live currently, there would be no reason for me to use anything more then what I have now. A gun is just overkill (literally).

And as for the original reason I started viewing this thread. I don't mean to be an english stickler but it is DEFINITELY not spelled "Weapond". For some reason that really urked me.


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## Lisa (Dec 12, 2005)

I don't carry a weapon per say except maybe my keychain which could probably knock out a charging rhino   or so I have been told. 

When uncomfortable when walking alone, like in a parking garage, etc.  I have in the past put my keys between my fingers just in case.


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## sgtmac_46 (Dec 13, 2005)

pete said:
			
		

> so who of you "carrying" have actually "used"...
> 
> to speak directly to those who describe their weapon as the next great piece of technology, how does it feel when the bullet or blade cuts through the flesh, organs, and blood vessels and extinguishes a life.
> 
> ...


 I've never shot anyone, but i've come pretty close.  I've had the front sight centered on another human being on a couple of occassions.  Fortunately, I wasn't forced to pull the trigger...but I would have. 

I've also seen enough death to know what it looks like up close and personal.  I once was the first arriving officer on a homicide where a guy got shot at close range in the neck/head with a 12 gauge shotgun.  I've seen human remains in all states and forms of disaray.  I've seen people killed and injured by violence and accidents.

I know what death looks like, it's a terrible sight, and nothing anyone should ever draw joy from.  But I also know this...when the crap hits the fan, it's far better to give than receive.  I'd rather see someone lying there shot, than BE someone lying there shot.  It hurts a lot less to see it, than to be it.  


I'll tell a little story at this point.  A couple of years ago, I was leaving my house, where I had gone on my lunch break, in the middle of the night.  I was walking to the patrol car, when I caught movement out of the corner of my eye.  I turned, and there was a man, running toward me through my yard, wild-eyed, with a baseball bat in his hand.  He was on a dead sprint, and looked as if he intended to run through me.

I remember thinking "Who is this guy, I don't know this guy".  As I was thinking that, however, I realized my Glock was in my hand.  I was watching this guy advance, 20 feet, 10 feet, I remember thinking "This guy is going to make me shoot him".  There happend to be a large oak tree in the middle of my yard, just a foot to my left.  

This tree probably saved this guys life, because I took a step to the left, to get cover and buy this guy a couple more seconds.  I yelled at him to stop.  I guess at that point he either realized A) HEY, this guy is a cop or B) This guy is a cop pointing a GUN at me.

About 4 feet in front of me, he suddenly stopped, dropped his bat and went face down on the ground.

I never have figured out what this guy was doing, he was so jacked up on methamphetamines, and had been up for so long, he was hallucinating.  He told some wild-eyed story about people being out to get him.  

I have two theories, this guy was hallucinating so badly he thought I was part of the 'conspiracy'.  Or, he was planning on car jacking me, and didn't see the police car on the other side of the house, and didn't see the fact I was a police officer until it was too late.  

The whole incident had every sign of an ambush.  I think he was just walking through the neighborhood, and say 'someone' come out of the front door, and thought I was going to get in to the truck parked in front of my house.  

He ran up on me as fast as he could, was going to cold-cock me with his bat, and realized "Uh-oh GUN!!!!"

I am sure, however, if it had been anyone else on the block who walked out of their front door, this man would have likely beaten them very severly with the baseball bat he was carrying.  I also know, if that tree hadn't been there, this guy might have gotten his ticket punched permanently.  He was less than 1ft from the imaginary line I had drawn on the ground as his last step.

That's how quickly those things happen sometimes.  I remember thinking, throughout the whole event "This is so surreal", none of it made any sense until after the fact.


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## Danny T (Dec 13, 2005)

Henderson said:
			
		

> ... The asp stays in the car, just in case. As far as the money issue goes...I get my blades wholesale, and the asp was a whopping $16. :supcool:


 
If I may ask was your asp simply a great deal or is it one of the inexpensive look alikes. The reason I ask is to bring fore there is a major difference in the quaility and strength of a good colapsible baton.

One of my students had taken to carrying a inexpensive knock-off asp. Asked if I could have a look and take a couple of swings with it. Whipped it open with a backhand diagonal up move and returned with a diagonal down forehand strike in the air. The asp had a nice curve which matched the left side of my body perfectly. It had bent around my body from the force. I wouldn't trust one like it for a "just in case." I recommend purchasing a good asp, just in case.

Danny


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## James Kovacich (Dec 23, 2005)

It seems theres a lot of weapon carrying out there. How are your states with these items?

California is very strict. It is illegal to possess the nunchaku and telescopic batons. So those are out for carrying just in case. 

This is what I own.
http://www.crkt.com/litem1.html

I recently took it to Europe along with some Serrada lenth Kamagongs. I also own a "canemaster" cane which I purchased to try out. The weight is off but after cutting it to fit my body it may be better. But I feel a cane with a curved handled is more suited for Largo Mano movements more than the Serrada movenments which I prefer. But hey, a cane is legal, even on a plane.

When I need one later, I'm sure I will have a nice hardwood cane ready to go.


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## mantis (Dec 23, 2005)

do u know what's legal to carry in calif? at least things that do not require licenses!


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## green meanie (Dec 23, 2005)

Nothing fancy but, I sometimes carry a knife.


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## Flying Crane (Dec 23, 2005)

Only when I am on my way to class, or to train in the park.  Then I have been known to carry staffs, spears, swords, and broadswords.  Not the wushu crap, but heavy, real weaponry.

Of course if I was attacked, I'd have to throw it all on the ground, unzip the carry bags, and decide which was the appropriate weapon for the defense...


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## Sapper6 (Dec 23, 2005)

sgtmac_46 said:
			
		

> I've never shot anyone, but i've come pretty close. I've had the front sight centered on another human being on a couple of occassions. Fortunately, I wasn't forced to pull the trigger...but I would have.
> 
> I've also seen enough death to know what it looks like up close and personal. I once was the first arriving officer on a homicide where a guy got shot at close range in the neck/head with a 12 gauge shotgun. I've seen human remains in all states and forms of disaray. I've seen people killed and injured by violence and accidents.
> 
> ...


 
great story.  and by far, the most realistic sounding tale i've read on MT.  

that's exactly how it "goes down".  and i'll agree, dead human bodies is not a sight to behold. 

thanks for sharing.


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## Floating Egg (Dec 23, 2005)

I don't carry a weapon, though I have considered it at various times. Occasionally, I'll bring along a mini maglite, which has been wrapped with cord, but that's only if I'm going for a walk late at night.


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## hemi (Dec 23, 2005)

I dont often carry a weapon at this point in my life. I had a concealed hang gun permit for years and would carry a Glock 17 most of the time in my truck but sometimes on my person. I am very confident in my ability to hit what I intend to hit. Now as I get older I am kind of in a rock and a hard place kind of situation. I know full well that there is a chance, how ever small still a chance, that I could find my self in a situation that I would really need a gun for self defense. But in that same situation I know that I would hesitate to use deadly force in defense of myself and would not even consider that level of force in protection of property.

Dont get me wrong if it came down to a situation where I knew if I didnt take out a threat, I would then myself be killed then I would not hesitate for even a split second. But I have been in more than one situation where I was in danger, but had I have brandished my weapon and ended the situation I would be in a position to be put on trial for Aggravated assault. Lucky for me I was able to talk my way out and get the heck out of there. But that is a big reason I started taking Kenpo. Yes there are situations that Kenpo would not help much, but I dont intend to walk around looking for trouble. I know that myself I would be much more inclined to end a situation by use of a few well placed punches and kicks then to fire on someone. If I had to hit someone they may have to go get stitches (if I got a real good hit in). But if I had to use the Glock with hollow points they are going to the morgue. 

I guess my point is that I think the hesitation I would have in the use of a gun in my case is almost a liability more so than anything else. Its sad that in America I have to worry so much about the consequences I face for defending myself but that is a topic that is being discussed in another thread. 

I do carry a tire buster in my car between the seat and the door. And for home defense I prefer the Mossberg 590A1 12 Ga. with #7 shot. I would also love to talk to some of the Leos around here as I am considering going into law enforcement.

Oh and yes I know and love the quotes from some very wise people.

Those of hesitate meditate in the horizontal position SGM. ED.  Parker

I would rather be judged by 12 then carried by 6


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## tellner (Dec 27, 2005)

pete said:
			
		

> so who of you "carrying" have actually "used"...


*raises hand*

Stick, yes. Crutches and cane, yes. Knife and gun have worked well as deterrents so far _kein an hora_. 



> to speak directly to those who describe their weapon as the next great piece of technology,  how does it feel when the bullet or blade cuts through the flesh, organs, and blood vessels and extinguishes a life.



"Boy" rhymes with "toy". We're all interested in this sort of thing, and we know on some level that the choices we make could be the difference between life and death. So our inherent geekiness and tech-fetish tendencies come out. This isn't exactly news to anyone in the field. 

The question you appear to be asking is "Have you made The Decision?" I don't know about anyone else, but for me the answer is "yes". I devoutly hope never to harm another person much less injure or kill him. But, G-d forbid, should it ever be a choice between him and me or a loved one I have already made my peace with that decision and its consequences, personal and legal. This is one of those things where you need to go through the process of confronting the unpleasant realities. Once you do, the carnographic glee you seem to take in visualizing the blood and stink is counterproductive. It doesn't prepare you any better for the possibility. And it can make you hesitate when you shouldn't.

The mistake you are making is typical of people who are not comfortable with deadly force. Scratch that. It's not a mistake as much as it's a difference in perspective. If you are on one side of that divide there are questions of how and what, tradeoffs serving an existing set of goals. If you are on the other it is still why and if. For me and probably for a few others here that switch has flipped to one position. For you and others it is in the other. 



> not playing the morality game, but would just like to know if its all techo-nerd talk, or you guys are using those things you spend your hard earned cash for the reasons they were made... to kill.
> 
> pete.



Without meaning to you are. Many people, as intelligent and sensitive as yourself, have come to certain conclusions about the risks inherent in living in this world and have prepared ourselves accordingly. The possibility of deadly force is part of our consciousness, but after a while we don't obsess about it. It's just like defensive driving. You have to be aware of the terrible consequences of mistakes and a loss of attention. If you spend too much time worrying about it you won't be able to drive. You'll be paralyzed.

I would also hazard that you aren't very comfortable with weapons of any sort except as cultural artifacts or training equipment in the safe confines of the dojo. They certainly can be used to kill. But the great paradox is that if they can be and if you are prepared to use them that way they almost never will be. A pistol isn't really that good at killing. Certainly not compared to a shotgun or a sword. But it is an excellent deterrent if it is presented strongly and with intent. Bad people, even very formidable ones, understand that it is a real threat, that they can get very seriously hurt or killed. So they tend to back off. If you draw with the complete conviction that you will use deadly force if the threat doesn't end you will almost never have to use it. If you draw with the hope of scaring or that the bad guy will magically go away he will see that you are not a danger and can be treated as prey.

I've had people try to break into my house while it was obviously occupied.  "Get the bleep off my porch!" didn't stop them. The quiet sound of a 1911 being racked got their attention. 80 pounds of German Shepherd hitting the door at about 30 miles an hour and trying to bite off fingers spoke to them eloquently in language they understood. They didn't get what they wanted, but they got to keep the blood on the inside. Besides, they weren't invited. I got to keep everything that was mine and didn't have to get in a fistfight. Sounds like a win all around.


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## tellner (Dec 27, 2005)

Argh. double post.


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## CuongNhuka (Dec 29, 2005)

What weapons do I carry on my person? Lets see. 

Tennis shoes: if I need to kick, some hard leather will make it a little more effective. And Coung Nhu contains the ancient art of Nike-Jitsu
Comfortable (meaning loose) pants. If I need to kick, less in my way. And once again Coung Nhu has Nike-Jitsu
Eight limbs: two hands, two feet, two knees, two elbows. If I decide that I need to hit you, there you go.
Two pens and two pencils: they are the application of the Yawara. Any hammering strike (or pommel with weapons) is more or less a Yawara strike.
My eyes: cant fight me if I keep out of your sight
My ears: cant fight me if you cant hear me (I should probably add that this goes with the above)
My voice: cant fight me if I talk you out of it, or start screaming bloody murder.
So there you go. I didnt read the rest of the posts, so if some one else put this, sorry for restating it.

Sweet Brighit Bless your Blade,

John


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## beauty_in_the_sai (Dec 29, 2005)

I've carried shurriken in my pocket and sai under my coat. Haven't had to use them....yet.

Becky


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## Knarfan (Dec 29, 2005)

Usually carry two or three blades. Somtimes small improvised weapon, somthing heavy that fits in my palm. I also do constrution work so I have plenty of tools that work well as weapons. Don't carry a firearm never have. Nowadays everything is considered a deadly weapon so I would hate to ever have to use one. I work in the worst & have trained in some pretty bad neiborhoods & never really had a problem but, it's nice to be prepared just in case. I think that the people that need the weapons the most are the precieved easy targets woman, the elderly.


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## sgtmac_46 (Dec 29, 2005)

sayoc FF said:
			
		

> Usually carry two or three blades. Somtimes small improvised weapon, somthing heavy that fits in my palm. I also do constrution work so I have plenty of tools that work well as weapons. Don't carry a firearm never have. Nowadays everything is considered a deadly weapon so I would hate to ever have to use one. I work in the worst & have trained in some pretty bad neiborhoods & never really had a problem but, it's nice to be prepared just in case. I think that the people that need the weapons the most are the precieved easy targets woman, the elderly.


 Exactly.  A gun is a tool, just like a lever.  A very strong man might not need a lever to move a 200 pound object.  A very weak person would.  Tools are used to overcome disparities between us physically.

Most violent criminals are physically strong and fit males between the ages of 17 and 45.  The violent ones, by their very nature, are generally large, strong and aggressive.  Most, due to life choices, have a history of manual labor, when they do work, often construction.  Top that off with a history of drug use....increasingly hyper-stimulant abuse.  These type of men don't need a gun to victimize people, but the average person would be hard-pressed to defend themselves against this sort of thug.  

An 80 year old woman, unarmed, would have no hope.  An 80 year old woman armed with a 12 gauge shotgun, and a will to use it if necessary, is a WHOLE 'nother story.


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## Henderson (Dec 30, 2005)

sgtmac_46 said:
			
		

> An 80 year old woman, unarmed, would have no hope. An 80 year old woman armed with a 12 gauge shotgun, and a will to use it if necessary, is a WHOLE 'nother story.


 
Look out! Granny's got a Mossberg and ain't afraid to use it!:supcool:


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## Knarfan (Dec 30, 2005)

Henderson said:
			
		

> Look out! Granny's got a Mossberg and ain't afraid to use it!:supcool:


 
Anybody that messes with GRANNY deserves what they get :mp5: .


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## sgtmac_46 (Dec 30, 2005)

Henderson said:
			
		

> Look out! Granny's got a Mossberg and ain't afraid to use it!:supcool:


 Sadly, sometimes it's either that, or a beating for her pension check/SSI check.  

I'll tell you this, I personally wouldn't shed a tear if I found one of my local scrotus maximuses laying in a pool of their own fluids, doing their best immitation of room temperature, on Grannies floor after a bungled burglary.  That's what we calling thinning out the herd.  Not a jury in the country would convict grandma.


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## green meanie (Dec 30, 2005)

sgtmac_46 said:
			
		

> Exactly. A gun is a tool, just like a lever. A very strong man might not need a lever to move a 200 pound object. A very weak person would. Tools are used to overcome disparities between us physically.
> 
> Most violent criminals are physically strong and fit males between the ages of 17 and 45. The violent ones, by their very nature, are generally large, strong and aggressive. Most, due to life choices, have a history of manual labor, when they do work, often construction. Top that off with a history of drug use....increasingly hyper-stimulant abuse. These type of men don't need a gun to victimize people, but the average person would be hard-pressed to defend themselves against this sort of thug.
> 
> An 80 year old woman, unarmed, would have no hope. An 80 year old woman armed with a 12 gauge shotgun, and a will to use it if necessary, is a WHOLE 'nother story.


 
Good post. Well said.


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## Henderson (Dec 30, 2005)

sgtmac_46 said:
			
		

> Not a jury in the country would convict grandma.


 Of course not, they would be picturing their own grandma.  It's a beautiful thing!


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## Ric Flair (Dec 30, 2005)

A pen CAN be mightier than a sword...


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## Ric Flair (Dec 30, 2005)

FULL water bottle or half full water bottle...


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## NARC (Jan 1, 2006)

"Off Duty" I regularly carry my issued H&K 40 Compact and at least one edged weapon (CRKT or a Ka-Bar pocket folder). 
If I am wearing my 5.11 Vest I carry within it my ASP. Improvised weapon wise there's just about anything to use pens, belt, hat, weighted bandana etc... I have had to "draw" my weapon less than I had originally thought I would be in my 10 years of LE.


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## Jonathan Randall (Jan 1, 2006)

sgtmac_46 said:
			
		

> Sadly, sometimes it's either that, or a beating for her pension check/SSI check.
> 
> I'll tell you this, I personally wouldn't shed a tear if I found one of my local scrotus maximuses laying in a pool of their own fluids, doing their best immitation of room temperature, on Grannies floor after a bungled burglary. That's what we calling thinning out the herd. Not a jury in the country would convict grandma.


 
I wouldn't shed a tear myself, either. Unfortunately I think you are mistaken about any jury in the country not convicting her. Some people, I'm afraid, have more sympathy for the perpetrator than the victim.


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## sgtmac_46 (Jan 2, 2006)

NARC said:
			
		

> "Off Duty" I regularly carry my issued H&K 40 Compact and at least one edged weapon (CRKT or a Ka-Bar pocket folder).
> If I am wearing my 5.11 Vest I carry within it my ASP. Improvised weapon wise there's just about anything to use pens, belt, hat, weighted bandana etc... I have had to "draw" my weapon less than I had originally thought I would be in my 10 years of LE.


 Nice USP Compact.  I've got a USP .40 full-size myself....very nice guns.  Since I cut my teeth on the Glock, I never shoot it, but I also can't bear to part with it, so well made it is.  You'll never go wrong carrying an HK.  

Incidently, my wife bought me a Benchmade 5000 Presidio auto-opener for christmas....I now have my new favorite pocket knife.


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## sgtmac_46 (Jan 2, 2006)

Jonathan Randall said:
			
		

> I wouldn't shed a tear myself, either. Unfortunately I think you are mistaken about any jury in the country not convicting her. Some people, I'm afraid, have more sympathy for the perpetrator than the victim.


 Sadly, you're probably right.  I keep forgetting that every part of the US isn't like Missouri.  In Missouri, if a burglar ends up assuming room temperature in a puddle of his own fluids in the middle of someone's living room floor, we just chalk it up to the high-price of crime.


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## CuongNhuka (Jan 8, 2006)

sgtmac_46 said:
			
		

> Sadly, you're probably right. I keep forgetting that every part of the US isn't like Missouri. In Missouri, if a burglar ends up assuming room temperature in a puddle of his own fluids in the middle of someone's living room floor, we just chalk it up to the high-price of crime.


 
Now I want to move to Missouri... I wounder if there is a Coung Nhu school there mmm... I'll have to look...

Sweet Brighit Bless your Blade,

John


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## aplonis (Jan 22, 2006)

I find the cane very convenient. I'd prefer it to the knife any day of the week.

Once, many years ago, carrying (and being able to open one-handed) a Schrade Old Grandad folding hunter saved me a mugging by three attackers in a dark parking lot one payday evening outside the Navy base at Solomon's Island MD. Just being ready sufficed to that particular occasion and no blood was drawn nor funds inappropriately depleted.

More recently my cane was proved very effective in discouraging a quite vicious dog. Armed with the cane, I should not fear to defend myself against a knife. Armed with a knife I'd never even consider to face off against the cane.

I can carry my cane with me in public anywhere. Not only that, but have it always in my hand. I used to be fast on the draw with a folding hunter. But not half so fast as having it already in my hand. The reach is longer with the cane. I shouldn't fear to give a warning poke or tap with it by way of discouragement. With a knife, you don't enjoy any such soft options.

In defence against the dog I was able to fend off the dog and not do it any serious harm. A knife or gun would have resulted in complications once the police arrived. He gave my cane not a second glance.


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## ginshun (Jan 26, 2006)

I usually have 2 or 3 knives on me, but I think of them more as tools than weapons.  Albeit tools that _could_ be effective weapons if need be.

Benchmade 710 all the time, and usually another benchmade or spyderco in the opposite pocket.  Maybe a Dalton auto or one of the BM balisongs if I am feeling like taking a risk as far as legality goes. Tiny pen knife on a chain around my neck most of the time, although it would be pretty tough to use that one as much of a weapon.

Really I carry them mostly just because I am a knife nut.  The fact that they are also self defence weapons is just an nice perk.


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## tradrockrat (Jan 26, 2006)

sgtmac_46 said:
			
		

> Good choice.
> 
> I carry a Glock 22 .40 with a 15 + 1 of Federal Hydra-shoks, or if i'm really concerned about concealibility i'll carry the Glock 27 .40 with the same loads. 155 Grain summer, 185 Grain winter (clothing differences). 1 extra-magazine And I carry a good folder, my Emerson, CKT, or Benchmade.
> 
> ...


 
I like this post a lot.  However, as I'm not a LEO, I find that a pocket knife is my only easily carried protection.  Other weapons such as Asps and whatnot are all grey areas in California - too much trouble.  At home is an entirely different matter.  My wife IS a LEO so she and I sleep with a few guns around.  My naked moment would involve the 8 shot Mossburg 500.


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## Mike712 (Jan 26, 2006)

i occasionally will carry a knife around with me.


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## tshadowchaser (Jan 26, 2006)

I have been known to cary a knife at times and my cane is usualy in my hand  when im out of town


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## Carol (Jan 26, 2006)

The smaller weapons...the birthstone ring on my left hand with two 1.5 karat triangle-cut stones.  My left hook may not be much yet, but it packs a nasty sting.

Another is the steel bangle on my right wrist.  I pity the fool that tries to grab me by the wrist on my dominant side..   He would not be able to get any kind of a grip.  If he tried, a quick motion with my arm would trap his fingers in a painfully unnatural position.

I dislike bulky computer bags or briefcases, so I carry my laptop in a sleeve that I bought when in Japan.  I removed the stupid plastic sholder strap clips and replaced them with three inch steel key rings to ensure the strap could not be forcefully seperated from the bag.  This gives me an extra 2 or 2.5 feet of reach.  I can connect it with an assailant before he is close enough to make contact with me.  Or, I could smash it to the floor if I realllllly had to create a distraction or draw attention to myself.  

And perhaps the one that I am never without are my keys, which are on a d-ring carabiner.  I never carry my keys in my purse.  They are always in my hands or in easy reach.  I have very small hands, the carabiner makes a perfect set of brass knuckles.  My four fingers of either hand fit perfectly inside, leaving all of my keys protruding outwards in such a way that...even if I hit something/someone, I would feel very minimual contact from the edges of the keys.

They may not sound like much for weapons, but, I've practiced using them.  They are a bit more difficult to be used against me.  And, I get to take them everywhere...to school, to work, through airport security, even in to another country.


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## eyebeams (Jan 28, 2006)

Henderson said:
			
		

> Look out! Granny's got a Mossberg and ain't afraid to use it!:supcool:



And neither is the thief who gets to it first.


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## sgtmac_46 (Jan 28, 2006)

eyebeams said:
			
		

> And neither is the thief who gets to it first.


 A thief can have mine.....ammunition first.  

18 year old burglaries don't need a shotgun to beat granny to death.  What's granny got to bring to the table to equal that out?  She's certainly not going to use her spinning dragon kick of death. Moreover, 18 year old's fear getting shot.


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## eyebeams (Jan 29, 2006)

sgtmac_46 said:
			
		

> A thief can have mine.....ammunition first.
> 
> 18 year old burglaries don't need a shotgun to beat granny to death. What's granny got to bring to the table to equal that out? She's certainly not going to use her spinning dragon kick of death. Moreover, 18 year old's fear getting shot.



18 year olds get to granny's shotgun before granny does, too.


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## celtic_crippler (Jan 29, 2006)

Kel-Tech .380 complete with "wallet holster."


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## sgtmac_46 (Jan 30, 2006)

eyebeams said:
			
		

> 18 year olds get to granny's shotgun before granny does, too.


 18 year old doesn't need a shotgun to kill granny.  Also, name one person in the US, one person, who has EVER been shot with their own gun, by a stranger in the middle of the night.  Compare that number, with the number of intruders who have been shot or disuaded with a firearm.



> Susan Gaylord Buxton, 66, retrieved her .38 caliber handgun and searched her house. She found a man hiding in a closet, covered by a coat.
> 
> The man, 22-year-old Christopher Lessner, lunged for the gun, and, police said, Buxton shot him once in the leg. She fired a second shot, which missed, according to police.



http://www.nbc5i.com/news/5289996/detail.html

The only problem here was shot placement.  I mean, the LEG?!  Try two to the chest and one to the head.  Better yet, a shotgun would have been a better choice.  Decisive end to the confrontation.

Again, 18 year old men don't need a gun to kill an 80 year old woman, the whole idea is ludicrous.  Short of a gun, however, how is an 80 year old woman going to defend herself against 18 year old men?  Without a shotgun, grandma's a victim, WITH a shotgun grandma's a threat.


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## Cujo (Jan 30, 2006)

I must admit that I rarely carry a firearm off duty. They are just a pain to carry. I do however carry a knife at all times, and yes I am trained to use it. I also teach basic knife fighting skills. Never underestimate a knife! I love it when I teach police recruits and I attack them with a training knife at around 15 feet away. I can almost always start cutting (so to speak), before they get their firearm drawn.

Pax
Cujo


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## variance (Nov 16, 2006)

*::In car::*
- ASP Tactical Baton (concealed with a custom mount under my seat)
- Green Penlaser with wide dispersal
- Cheap Century Aluminum Baton easily accessible from under my fender. (sometimes opening your car takes too long).

Attempted Carjackings / Being Jumped in the past are the reason for my paranoia.


*:: Walking around ::*

* My shoes. (I wear martial arts shoes everywhere I go. mostly the puma ones although I have one of the addidas) 

It's good for 
- Running from a fight because its rare that a fight is ever 1 on 1 or that they don't bring firearms or knives and running is always the best option
unless there is no other choice. 
Dealing with police and potential legal problems is rarely worth the trouble.


- If i have no choice. I'll put my hands up saying i dont want to fight then probably a direct hard strike to the knee or crotch. if he's too close for that, probably a quick reverse knee/clinch.

* My keyring

- Carabiner Keyring 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




Can be used as a knuckle point/brass knuckle type weapon.
Bouncers never give it a second look. 


- Keychain 10mW Green Laser modified for wider dispersal. (looks like a laser pointer.) Good for blinding someone painfully and running away.
Could also be used as a kuboton up close.

- Keys, i think this has been covered before.

- Belt / Shirt. 
Use belt.. like jet li in his movies
or use your shirt to wrap one of your hands if can't run away from a knife fight. (I prefer my lead hand)


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## KenpoTex (Nov 16, 2006)

I'm not going to bore anyone by posting my EDC assortment again, but I do have a few thoughts/words of advice.

For those that carry any weapon/tool for self-defense whether it's a gun, knife, baton, OC-spray, Carabiner, or some device to blind someone with (I'm not going to get started on the effectiveness, or lack thereof, of some of these options)...*do you train with it?*

I'm not talking about playing with it in your home (No, I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with solo practice, solo practice is essential), I'm asking whether you've actually tried deploying your weapon of choice while a training partner is attacking you or is trying to prevent you from getting it into action. This type of training will really allow you to see whether your preferred tool is really a viable option. If it's something that you can't access and deploy rapidly, with one hand, under stress, it might be time to re-think your choices.

See the quote in my "sig-line."  To me, this represents the standard that our techniques must meet in order to be "useable" in a violent encounter. And always remember: Mindset and tactics trump gear any day of the week.


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## Rich Parsons (Nov 16, 2006)

kenpotex said:


> I'm not going to bore anyone by posting my EDC assortment again, but I do have a few thoughts/words of advice.
> 
> For those that carry any weapon/tool for self-defense whether it's a gun, knife, baton, OC-spray, Carabiner, or some device to blind someone with (I'm not going to get started on the effectiveness, or lack thereof, of some of these options)...*do you train with it?*
> 
> ...



Every knife fight I have been in, ** That is where I had a knife on me when the bad guy did also **, I was never able to clear it as I was too busy handling his knife, with the exception of one time when it was already in my hand for a normal usage reason and when I brought it up he back right off and went elsewhere. 

Training under stress and trying to deploy a weapon is a good thing. No matter the weapon one should practice trying to get at it and making it useful.


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## edwardcloud (Dec 20, 2006)

My country is very safe so no weapon needed, i think i would carry a glove the most to prevent my wrist from being hurted


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## Super_Noob (Dec 24, 2006)

It may be because I've never actually been in a confrontation in which a weapon was involved, but I've always imagined melee combat being more effective than modern weaponry against crooks (like knives or switchblades for example). Stabbing and slashing seem to be slowler and limit the number of "attacks" you could do in the same amount of time as you would if you were kicking and punching. Sure there's a chance you'll get slashed or stabbed, but the same can be said in the event you decide to withdraw that knife/gun from your pocket and defend yourself with it.

If I could, I'd like to carry something like the escrima, tonfa, or some kind of club, for the added distance and force. However due to that unlikely hood, I'd just stick with kicks and punches.


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## Explorer (Jan 1, 2007)

Yes, I train with my weapons.  They vary depending on the likely situation I'm headed into.  I have a few clients who office in nastier sections of town.  When I head there I'm carrying a gun.  My attire decides which gun I carry ... 22magnum snub nosed revolver, heavily modified Springfield 1911 .45 commander size, Baby Eagle .45.  The 22 is the smallest the Baby largest.  I have a Kel-Tec .32 ... but don't carry it often.  I try to get to the range every week to practice.

I also carry a pocket knife.  The most useful tool in the world.  I use it every day for little things and it's there if the need arises.  I have a few had drills with the knife.  But my guess is my first self defense move would be bare handed.

Inova makes some of the nicest tactical LED flashlights I've seen in a long time.  I'll be picking one up tomorrow.  They're great as flashlights (duh) but they double very nicely as kubatons.  They even have holes in the end for your keyring.

No matter what situation I'm heading into ... I always take along my brain.  If I start to feel uncomfortable ... I begin looking for likely exits for my 'tactical egress' move.  That's where I get in the car and clear the danger zone.

I've faced a knife only once (thank God), had one gun pulled on me (I'm a lot faster than I look ... thank God) and the only weapons I've used on another person have been a hair comb (don't laugh ... those things HURT ... they TEAR the skin on your throat) and a car antennae (in the days when we could snap them off a car fender and use them like a whip).  

Wait ... I kicked a chair (one of those huge wooden library chairs) into an onrushing tough guys shins in a High School Library where I was a NARC ... THAT was funny.  He never saw it coming ... he had a pipe in his hand from the shop class, raised it over his head and came right for me ... the chair was between us so I booted that thing as hard as I could (I was hoping to break something) ... he tried to jump over it but was a little late ('cause he was both stoned AND stupid) ... so this huge wooden chair hit him in the low shins and he ended up with his knees on the chair and his hands on the floor.  It was a pretty simple matter to knock his stupid butt off the chair and wrap him up for the Sheriff's dept.  He kept yelling (with my knee in his ribs) that I couldn't touch him.  Amazing.  I still can't believe it worked at all.


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## Blindside (Jan 2, 2007)

Super_Noob said:


> ....but I've always imagined melee combat being more effective than modern weaponry against crooks (like knives or switchblades for example). Stabbing and slashing seem to be slowler and limit the number of "attacks" you could do in the same amount of time as you would if you were kicking and punching.....


 
You are in for a rude awakening, there is nothing slow about a knife assuming the attacker has even a modicum of training.

Lamont


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## tellner (Jan 2, 2007)

The teacher of my first Silat guru said:
"I don't eat with my bare hands. Why would I fight with them?"

If one of the reasons you study martial arts is for self protection you need to learn something about the weapons which might be used against you and the ones you might (legally) use. 

I live in a state with fairly liberal laws on such matters. I usually have a good pocket knife like the Spyderco Endura or a folding karambit.


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## wade (Jan 2, 2007)

M3a1...................


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## Cirdan (Jan 4, 2007)

A lot of you seem well armed.
Do you also carry equipmenf for first aid?


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## Carol (Jan 4, 2007)

Cirdan said:


> A lot of you seem well armed.
> Do you also carry equipmenf for first aid?


 
Yes.  A small electronic device that can summon a team of paramedics to the precise spot of the incident in a few short minutes.


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## Marvin (Jan 4, 2007)

Carol Kaur said:


> Yes. A small electronic device that can summon a team of paramedics to the precise spot of the incident in a few short minutes.


Funny you should say that Carol, my main self defence tool does the same thing, except it summons the police:ultracool


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## Cirdan (Jan 4, 2007)

Electronic devices are fine I guess but last time I relied on one "a few short minutes" turned out to be half an hour.


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## Carol (Jan 4, 2007)

Cirdan said:


> Electronic devices are fine I guess but last time I relied on one "a few short minutes" turned out to be half an hour.


 
In Massachusetts, there is NO PROTECTION under the law for a member of the general public administering first aid. That means, if an ordinary person attempts to aid a seriously injured person, the person that helped the injured person is legally responsible for their death. In this state, the Good Samaritan laws primarily protect first responders.

California is another state with very restrictive Good Samaritan laws.

Giving first aid to a stranger is not as simple as wanting to help someone out and having everything be OK.

Many communities require that all 3 first responders be dispatched in an emergency situation.  Depending on the location of the incident, the first responder to show may very well be the fire department, who have emergency suppies, oxygen, first aid/CPR traiing, as well as many capabilities that paramedics don't have.  Firemen can get through locked doors and in to other places that paramedics can't easily get to.  They also carry equipment that paramedics don't carry, such as cardiac defibs and the Jaws of Life.


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## Blindside (Jan 4, 2007)

Carol Kaur said:


> In Massachusetts, there is NO PROTECTION under the law for a member of the general public administering first aid. That means, if an ordinary person attempts to aid a seriously injured person, the person that helped the injured person is legally responsible for their death. In this state, the Good Samaritan laws primarily protect first responders.
> 
> California is another state with very restrictive Good Samaritan laws.
> 
> Giving first aid to a stranger is not as simple as wanting to help someone out and having everything be OK.


 
Where I live, "a few short minutes" is a MINIMUM of 50 minutes, so if someone is in trouble it is either up to us to watch them bleed/die or do something.  Given the choice between doing nothing and the possibility of a lawsuit, I would hope that most people would try to assist.   

Lamont


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## tellner (Jan 4, 2007)

Even if the police show up - not guaranteed - they are under no legal obligation to protect you. Well established case law, sovereign immunity, whole nine yards. 

Suppose they show up and they're really, really fast about it. You have to get out your phone, dial the number, tell the dispatcher where you are, wait for the dispatcher to call the police and the police to come over. Minimum time five minutes. If a guy's industrious that's enough time for him to kill you, rape you and loot the body all in no particular order, have a beer and get a good start on digging the hole to bury the body in. A joke among police is "Call us, call the ambulance, call Domino's. You and the paramedics can have a pizza while you're waiting for the police to arrive."

And yes, I do carry first aid supplies, at least a military field dressing. When I'm wearing the Coat of Many Pockets (a Scott eVest) there's also a one-hand tourniquet and package of QuicKlot.


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## tellner (Jan 4, 2007)

Out here we have pretty decent Good Samaritan laws for trained people which is why I try to keep the Red Cross First Aid certification up to date. The ambulance crews carry some rescue equipment and defibrillators along with all sorts of other interesting stuff.


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## Odin (Jan 4, 2007)

tellner said:


> The teacher of my first Silat guru said:
> "I don't eat with my bare hands. Why would I fight with them?"
> 
> quote]
> ...


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## tellner (Jan 4, 2007)

He could, but that's only if he has to. Civilization consists of doing unnatural things


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## shesulsa (Jan 4, 2007)

So ... what kind of utensil does he use to eat a banana, fork or spoon?  How about popcorn?  Nuts?  Fig Newtons?


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## Marvin (Jan 4, 2007)

tellner said:


> Even if the police show up - not guaranteed - they are under no legal obligation to protect you. Well established case law, sovereign immunity, whole nine yards.
> 
> Suppose they show up and they're really, really fast about it. You have to get out your phone, dial the number, tell the dispatcher where you are, wait for the dispatcher to call the police and the police to come over. Minimum time five minutes. If a guy's industrious that's enough time for him to kill you, rape you and loot the body all in no particular order, have a beer and get a good start on digging the hole to bury the body in. A joke among police is "Call us, call the ambulance, call Domino's. You and the paramedics can have a pizza while you're waiting for the police to arrive."


Very true, the police have no duty to protect individuals only "society". I am all in faver of a person carrying a handgun to protect themselves. But my point was that the cell phone may be overlooked by some people as a tool in their self defence toolbox. Some people may feel that they can project themselves into a situation because they are carrying, that is not a good idea. 
When I carry, which is not very often, it is either a glock 19, springfield champion or S & W mod 60.


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## tellner (Jan 5, 2007)

Very true. There are plenty of people who believe that a CCW is a superhero card. Fortunately, they tend to be the sort who don't get into much real world trouble. 

All nitpicking aside the point I'm trying to make is that if

You are a mature person with good impulse control
You understand the legal and ethical parameters of self defense and the use of force
You keep the laws of your jurisdiction in mind
You know how to use your tool of choice
You are in a situation where it is appropriate
you're better off with a good tool than relying on your unaugmented body if your life or health is in serious danger. The whole "I come to you with Empty Hands" is romantic nonsense that can get you killed. 

That said, I generally teach self defense from the body out. That is, some knowledge first, body second, weapons last if at all except under certain  unfortunate circumstances. For instance "He's already violated the restraining order and says if he can't have me nobody will." :uhoh:The most important thing is changing a student's attitude. Sometimes too much emphasis on tools too early leads to another sort of dependency i.e. they feel helpless without the weapon. As my Shaykh says "The body trains the mind."

A little knife like an Endura is so much a part of my wardrobe that it hardly counts as being armed. More serious occasions are rare now that my neighborhood is no longer red-lined and full of drug houses, thank G-d. For those a Glock 21, 1911 or a Kahr pocket pistol in 9mm.


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## billybybose (Aug 17, 2007)

i carry a glock 27 with two spare ten rd. mags iwb holster below my belly button,and a buck folder in its sheath on the strong side.when at work where i need extreme concealability i have the buck,and a two shot derringer in 38 spl.in my right pocket


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## Seiji (Sep 18, 2007)

i tend to carry a small pocket knife everywhere i go, besides school. i used to carry a cane but for my age it makes me stick out like a sore thumb.

edit: i suppose sticks along the sidewalk would work too, though. i live in a wooded area


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