# My Zhan Zhuang butt



## JDenver (May 16, 2009)

Proud to say that my zhan zhuang is going really well.  I'm really really taking my time with it, and to date have only done...ohhh.....2 positions!  I'm in no rush.

I gotta question about my butt though, my anus.  I find that, when Holding Balloon, my anus shuts.  I don't know why, just does.  I consciously visit it as part of my relaxation and am surprised to find that indeed I've been holding it shut, without even realizing it.  I recently read - sheesh, I don't remember from who - that closing the anus in zhan zhuang assists in driving yin energy up through the feet and legs.

Anyone care to comment?  Of course I feel like leaning to relaxing it just like everything else------


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## ggg214 (May 17, 2009)

IMO, your posture is right. when doing zhan zhuang, it must be shut down your anus. in this way, the energy of your body, or Qi, will not flow out of body.


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## JDenver (May 17, 2009)

ggg214 said:


> IMO, your posture is right. when doing zhan zhuang, it must be shut down your anus. in this way, the energy of your body, or Qi, will not flow out of body.



Hmmm.  Never heard it that way.  Thank you for the advice.

It's like Ba Duan Jin.  I've seen/heard that in some positions you close anus, but then seen and heard the opposite also.  It can get so confusing about which posture is correct, or I should say 'correct', since it seems to depend.

I'm hoping some others will join in with their opinions.


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## JadecloudAlchemist (May 18, 2009)

> that closing the anus in zhan zhuang assists in driving yin energy up through the feet and legs.


The Conception vessel(Ren Mai) is responsible for all the Yin channels. It is also connected to all the Yin channels. If you look at the Thursting channel and Yin heel channel it does cross the Perineum which is where the contraction of Huiyin(CV-1) is. Contraction of Huiyin is used in a lot of Qigong work in some cases it acts as a pump while breathing acts as a bellow knowing how to cordinate breathing and huiyin is important in Small and Grand circulation.

 Taoist avoided certain food fearing that farting would loose Qi the Anus is one of the 9 cavities according to theory.



> It's like Ba Duan Jin. I've seen/heard that in some positions you close anus, but then seen and heard the opposite also. It can get so confusing about which posture is correct, or I should say 'correct', since it seems to depend.


 Ba Duan Jin being one of the most popular sets has alot of varations. Knowing the theory of Qigong matters more than what particular way you do it.


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## kaizasosei (May 18, 2009)

It's good to have control over ones bodily functions.  One important aspect is the closing and opening of behind as well as controling the bladder.  Having control over this may well make the difference of not pissing your pants in a heaty situation.  I believe that for most people, it must be trained.  Of course, it is all upstairs and if you are not scared or extremely alarmed in a given situation, you're ok.  But if you do experience such biological reactions, as i have heard them called, then there is no way but to control or submit to the natural tendency.  

One easy way to control the most important functions, and it is slightly different for different people.  Some people can hold or retract farts, some people cannot.  Some will feel pressure in their bowels when stressed, some in the bladder.  Very nervous people get stomach aches even hours before an exam or what not.  Anyhow, the technique i have come up with is such that when you take a whiz, observe closely what happens with your breath and belly movements.  Usually, one will naturally exhale and relax upon release.  The trick is to inhale and practice inhaling and controlling the belly movements as well.  If you get good, provided your bladder is not exploding with content, you should be able to stop your stream at any time.  Inhaling to stop but also inhaling to go.  Basically it is the same button that makes it go on or off.
  Another slightly bad habit for the heat of combat is to pee in the shower when the water gets hot.  That will basically train you to pee whenever your body feels like it.  

I know this is a tad sidetracked to the open/closed anus, but i think it is quite connected.    

Although the natural breathing emphasizes the rising of the belly upon inhalation.  For purposes of training(and getting rid of sideburn) it is possible to reverse this and pull stomach in when inhaling. 
The common saying that my dad would always say, stomach in chest out, i find is also a good way to train. Of course after a while, the belly will droop and buldge out from training and life, so it is correct, i believe, to align the whole body in such a way.   This also reminds me of the situps and benchpress advice of keeping your lowerback pressed firmly against the bench or floor.


j


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## mograph (May 18, 2009)

I think we need to gently contract the muscles around the perineum, not the anus.


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## JDenver (May 19, 2009)

mograph said:


> I think we need to gently contract the muscles around the perineum, not the anus.




On inhale or exhale?  Or just contracted and held?  

My teacher, who learned his Zhan Zhuang many years ago, doesn't say anything about the Huiyin or perineum.  I'm curious though.


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## JadecloudAlchemist (May 19, 2009)

Hui yin is also a Ghost point:

http://www.hoersignale.de/inhalt/db_handler.php?Artikelnummer=d00001372

Spooky!! 

Actualy the 12 Ghost points were founded by Sun Si Miao and are translated today as points for Psychotic disorders. 



> I think we need to gently contract the muscles around the perineum, not the anus.


 I do not think you can just contract the Perineum without contracting the anus muscles. Same goes with the Penial the contraction of the Anus muscles are used as well. But Mantak Chia thinks otherwise and I am sure there are other teachers who disagree with me.

Here is something interesting involving small circulation and using the Hui yin point 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pudendal_nerve
As we can see it does go into the spinal cord 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onuf's_nucleus



> On inhale or exhale? Or just contracted and held?


Depends really. If you are praciting normal Abdominal breathing the Hui yin is held up on the exhale. On Reverse breathing on the inhale it is held up.
In some Qigong sets you hold the breath correctly and hold up the Hui yin cavity for a certain period of time. To answer the questions depends on the teacher and depends on the Qigong exercise.




> My teacher, who learned his Zhan Zhuang many years ago, doesn't say anything about the Huiyin or perineum. I'm curious though.


 Maybe he did not learn it. Maybe he did not find it important who knows why. I know if I was teaching Zhan Zhuang I would not teach beginners the internal parts like holding up the Hui yin because the adjustment of relaxing and letting go and correct posture is enough for them.


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## mograph (May 19, 2009)

JadecloudAlchemist said:


> I do not think you can just contract the Perineum without contracting the anus muscles.



I thought so too, until a friend who teaches Pilates & Yoga (and studied Alexander) taught me how to do it. It takes a lot of concentration and sensitivity, but it can be done. Now if only I can do it again ...



JadecloudAlchemist said:


> I know if I was teaching Zhan Zhuang I would not teach beginners the internal parts like holding up the Hui yin because the adjustment of relaxing and letting go and correct posture is enough for them.



Agreed.


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## JDenver (May 25, 2009)

Thanks all.

The nature of this art I suppose.  Some days I wish you could find an actual 'answer', you know?  It should be LIKE THIS.  Instead it's a real mash of different theories, practice, opinion.....

....contract the perineum, don't bother, must close it....I guess I'll just keep going with what I'm doing, which is full perineum and anus relaxation since the huiyin point is still a great mystery to me.


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