# Chokes damages...Wanna know more



## Black Mamba (Jun 17, 2010)

During my grappling training some days ago I didn't hear my opponent tapping out (I don't think she did to be honest) and so I accidentally choked her out.
Since I heard that accidents like these can be very dangerous I'm very worried now to apply a choke while training. I think it was her fault cause she should have known when tap out but I feel worried anyway, which are the dangers if the hold is kept for too long? How many seconds are need for making the damages irreversible?
Thanks


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## Black Mamba (Jun 17, 2010)

Mmm maybe it is the wrong forum, I'm new and didn't find a BJJ/grappling one


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## Chris Parker (Jun 17, 2010)

Hi Black Mamba,

First things first, posting the same on multiple threads is not the best idea, if it's in a particular forum and you think it should be in another one you can always ask the Moderators to move it (or they will themselves if they see the cause for it).

That said, on to your question.

Whenever we teach chokes/strangulations, the rule of thumb is 15 seconds at the absolute most. After 15 seconds, the person is either unconscious, in which case let go to avoid permanent damage, or it aint working, so you should move onto something else.

The dangers are pretty obvious. Essentially there are two major forms of chokes; blood chokes, and oxygen chokes. Blood chokes are considered the "safer" ones to apply, as they are applied to the carotid arterties on either side of the neck. Oxygen chokes, on the other hand, are applied by directly applying pressure to the trachea, which, even if the choke is released, can result in the trachea being bruised/swollen, or worse. If it becomes swollen, it can basically close off the airway, resulting in death in worst-case scenarios. Not a good situation. For this reason, when these are taught, they are often taught at the begining of a class, so the instructor can monitor and see if anyone is showing signs of tracheal damage before they leave.

As for "I think it was her fault", frankly that's garbage. The person applying the choke/strangulation, especially if in the form of a drill, should always be the one in control. If you couldn't tell she was going out, you don't have the sensitivity or control that you need to apply these techniques. I'd look to that before you did this again.


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## Bruno@MT (Jun 17, 2010)

Chris Parker said:


> As for "I think it was her fault", frankly that's garbage. The person applying the choke/strangulation, especially if in the form of a drill, should always be the one in control. If you couldn't tell she was going out, you don't have the sensitivity or control that you need to apply these techniques. I'd look to that before you did this again.



+1 one to everything Chris said, but this in particular.
The person performing the technique is responsible.

Oh and I've been told myself 'you didn't tap out' when I nearly broke my shoulder due to a lock, and afterwards the video footage clearly showed me tapping out quite vigorously, for quite a long time. I wouldn't be so sure if I were you. But even IF she didn't, it's up to you to keep control.


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## mook jong man (Jun 17, 2010)

We use various signals , we tap ourselves , we tap our partner , we tap the mat , or we yell out tap.
Sometimes with different locks or chokes one method of signaling works better than another.

Some people are too stubborn for their own good and won't tap even when they are starting to pass out like its something to be ashamed about.
Its then that you have to be the responsible and mature one and release the choke.

I don't know how much experience you have , but you get to know when the choke is on or it isn't.

Whether they have managed to get a hand up to their neck and spoil the choke or get their chin down , but you can just feel when it is right and you have got it " sunk in "

  If your technique is good then there is no need to apply full power and keep the choke on  because you already know what the end result will be.


But its probably best not to train with that person again because if they are like that when they are getting choked out , then the chances are they are going to be a bit overzealous when applying something on you


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## jks9199 (Jun 17, 2010)

Just a small clarification:  We do allow limited cross posting.  After all there are times when a question or announcement might be appropriate in more than one place, or might gather different but valid responses in more than one place.  However, we on the staff here still encourage members to try to post in the most appropriate areas.  You get the best responses that way...


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