# What a day - forced to use SD against my own sister...



## Sam (Dec 21, 2005)

*What a day.*

So I feel crappy this morning and get my *** up and go to work at 8:30.
I'm back home at 3 and my sister calls me yelling to come get my **** out of her house. I'm tired and I dont feel well, I tell her. She keeps yelling. I hang up. She comes over and says if I dont come get my **** right now she's throwing it all away and giving it to goodwill. I say fine do whatever you want just see if I ever ****ing talk to you again.
My dad jumps in and points out that I only moved out 3 weeks ago and she moved out years ago and she still has some of her **** in her room and he never did this to her and she was being unreasonable. She says I don't care come get it or I'm throwing it away. I wish you guys could hear her voice. She was actually enjoying this, getting pleasure out of causing other people problems. Being SO controling. I just wanted to slap the **** out of her.
So she leaves and I'm feeling crappy as it is and my dad convinces me to go get my stuff.
So we go over and my sister, being controling, doesn't have anything to yell at me about since I'm doing what she wants. She starts yelling at me to give her keys back and I said you're going out of town tomorrow and I need to come get more stuff. She's like you arent allowed to be here unless I'm here. 
At this point I'm not giving her her keys just to be obstinate and piss her off, and I'm pretty sure she was gonna kick me out after I give her the keys anyway and I want my stuff. My dad tells her to chill and that he wont let me leave unless I give her her keys so should relax. So she keeps yelling in my face to give her her keys back. I'm ignoring her and she wont move out of the doorway of my room. I tell her to chill out and get her temper because I don't want to get in a fight with her. My room is really small and I don't want to get into a fight with her there, but I can see it in her eyes that she's after blood. (You know that look, where their eyes get all big and you know you need to watch the hell out). 
So she tries to shove me back into the room but my dad and the guy she's currently using, her sugar daddy, (not her married boy friend, a different guy), are both in the living room and they wont be able to intervene if we get into it in that little room. So I shove her out into the hallway and put the basket down as my sister comes in swinging. My natural reaction was to webhand her in the throat, but I didnt want to _hurt _her, just stop her from hurting me. So instead of pushing with it, I put it out there and she just ran into it. I still cant believe she did that, but I've done that to bill smith's backfist to my head before, so it kinda makes sense. So I'm literally just holding her back like that and she's trying to go forward and she makes this funny gurgly noise and realizes that its not gonna work, so she starts scratching at my hand (the only injuries I sustained). I then used my foot to shove her backwards. (It looked like a thrust kick, but the best way to describe it would be to compare it to a golby no-inch punch. It was a no-inch kick. I didnt 'push' until my foot was on her belly button-ish area.) So she stumbles backward and I get into a creeper stance because I'm comfortable that way, and she comes running at me (I cant believe she didnt see I was about to kick her to southwest missouri, my dad said the way I was leaning back though to him it looked like I was cowering. Yeah, right.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





) So anyway she comes running at me (I could have done tacke technique A but I didn't have room to step off the line as we were in the hallway, so it was good I was in a kicking stance...) Anyway, I sidekick her in the stomach beneath her ribs as hard as I could (again, I didn't want to HURT her...(well, I wanted it to hurt her, but not like seriously or anything. I wanted her to stop trying to attack me) I don't know if my hardest side kick is powerful enough to break ribs, but I don't want to find out on my sister... even if she is a bia who woulda deserved it). So she falls on her *** in the hallway and my dad goes and holds her back and I've lost my temper at about this point and I go to beat the holy **** out of her and her sugar daddy grabs me and I come to my senses immediately again. I don't know what I was thinking, but nothing happened. So we call the police and I say I want her arrested for assault and they look at me and they look at her and she looked a lot worse than I did (scratches on her neck, bruising stomach area) and they say if she assaulted you why does she look so much worse and my dad explained about me and karate. And when Amanda heard dad telling them the truth she starts screaming for dad to get the **** out of her house which only served to tip off the police that we were telling the truth. So the cops hung around while I got my ****, and when they saw me throw all my books into a sheet (so I could carry them all out in a santa-claus like way) they had to ask if I'd read all of them. Which I thought was funny for some reason. (the answer was yes). So we leave and dad stops by the door and says Amanda I just want you to know I love you and amanda's like I hate you I hope you ****ing die. And dad walks sadly out of her house. it was very movie-esque. Oh, and her sugar daddy is outside and we tell him what the deal is and to get a better girl, because she's just using him for money and about her other married boyfriend. 
So its 5:30 and I'm like pull over let me pull some clothes out and you can take me directly to karate. so I go to karate, get there at about 5:45, and at 5:55 I'm outside because I know without a doubt I'm about to throw up and I don't want to do it in the bathroom where anyone can hear me. (the thought of hearing someone puke is so disgusting to me that I dont want to subject anyone else to it.) Aimee comes out and says can I get you anything hun and I'm really annoyed because I'm about to throw up and I dont want anyone to see or hear me because thats just disgusting. So I say hurriedly call my dad tell him to pick me up and as she walks inside I start throwing up. (I hope she was already inside). And after I'm done for the moment I go inside to get a drink and find half the studio watching me and Dan asks me if I'm feeling kind of crappy... great, all I need is my karate instructor imagining me puking outside. (Who told him?!) So I go get a drink and go outside so I can throw up some more.
So dad comes and picks me up and I threw up all evening (great huh?). I took some pepto bismol, and went to sleep, and an hour later I was throwing that up too. (How sick do you have to be to throw up medicine that stops you from throwing up?) And I took like three showers and my whole body hurts and I got 4 restless hours of sleep but at least I'm not throwing up anymore.
Oh, and I weigh 7 lbs less than I'm supposed to, I'm really dehydrated.


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## Ric Flair (Dec 21, 2005)

Ummmmmmmmmm... Why did you throw up for???  Do you have a condition or something???  
Man, what is wrong with your sister???  How old is she???  SHe doesn't seem very friendly...


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## Navarre (Dec 21, 2005)

I think you exercised a reasonable amount of restraint in the situation. Your sister, especially being older, should conduct herself better than that. I'm glad you're okay, Sam. 

I worry that your physical problems (the vomiting) might be more due to stress than you think. I know you've really been going through a lot lately. 

I hope you can work through some of the things going on. You know we're here for you and being able to train is a good stress reliever. 

Sometimes though we all need a little more help than what friends and exercise can provide.  I'm trying hard to get my wife to talk to someone about her depression. Your symptoms sound very similar. 

Maybe you need a break from your family for a bit. Between your dad and your sister, it sounds like things are getting worse. I don't want that for you. 

I wish you the very best, Sam.

your friend ~ Michael


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## Michael Billings (Dec 21, 2005)

Moved to Horror Stories, both for the situation, and the regurgitation.  Nasty situation, and nasty vomit.  Sorry this happened.

-Michael


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## arnisador (Dec 21, 2005)

What a difficult situation. Have patience. This too shall pass.

Good luck to you.


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## terryl965 (Dec 21, 2005)

patience is a virtual but having to be in that type of a stituation is tramactic. I'am truely sorry for your stituation. 
Terry


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## rutherford (Dec 21, 2005)

Well, did you catch a cold?  You did say you felt pretty icky when you woke up that morning.  So much stress could easily make anything just starting get a bunch worse.

Hope things go better soon.


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## Flying Crane (Dec 21, 2005)

That sounds like it was a really ugly scene.  I am sorry to hear about it, especially when it is family involved.  You'll get thru it, tho.  keep truckin'.


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## jdinca (Dec 21, 2005)

That was a rough scene. You handled it well. Your stomach sounds like nerves and stress. It's very understandable after a situation like that, not to mention there must have been problems that led up to this.

Good luck, you'll be better for it in the long run.


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## CuongNhuka (Dec 21, 2005)

I hope you feel better, your sister grows up and no one heard you (you said that you hoped no one heard). I have a few things that might make you feel better.
1. A few months ago I ate to much before class and about half way through, I asked if I could go breath. While I was catching my breath and getting a little water, I threw up all over myself, and the floor. In frount of a rather large class. Then while running to the head, I threw up again. Then right before I got to a stall. My Sensei had to clean up my sick, and I had to stand in vomit for about 15 minutes while I waited to see if I would again. My point is you're not the first to get sick in class, and wont be the last (you're lucky that few people probably acctuly saw you).
2. I've been in more then a few verbal disagreements with my sister. And alot ended up phyiscal. But if I were to fight back, she'd start crying, play the victim, I'd be grounded, and then her boy freind would beat me into next tuesday (man I'd miss Christmas [joke]). Once again, what happened to you has happened to other people in the past, and will happened to other people.
3. Eventually things will get better with your body and your family. but untill then,
4. You are in prayers.

Sweet Brighit Bless your Blade (and keep you safe),

John, hopeing you feel better.


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## Touch Of Death (Dec 21, 2005)

You may regret posting this dirty laundry some day. Anyways its sounds like you lean back before kicking. It could get you killed; so, work on posture.
Sean


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## Sam (Dec 21, 2005)

Touch Of Death said:
			
		

> You may regret posting this dirty laundry some day. Anyways its sounds like you lean back before kicking. It could get you killed; so, work on posture.
> Sean


 
I don't care about 'dirt laundry'. some stuff happened that I wanted to get off my chest. I have no reason to keep it a secret. Do you think I have something to be embarassed about? And it's a sideways kicking stance, we're taught to lean back. Sort of like this.


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## Gemini (Dec 21, 2005)

Sorry you don't feel well and I'm sorry about the confrontation with your sister. Sibling confrontations are particularly nasty, I know. So you left off what set your sister off in the first place.

btw. don't sweat the puking. After you're a parent, you get used to it in a hurry.


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## Touch Of Death (Dec 21, 2005)

Sam said:
			
		

> I don't care about 'dirt laundry'. some stuff happened that I wanted to get off my chest. I have no reason to keep it a secret. Do you think I have something to be embarassed about? And it's a sideways kicking stance, we're taught to lean back. Sort of like this.


I see, I had this vision of you bending backward.
Sean


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## shesulsa (Dec 21, 2005)

Sam, there are several people on this board who have learned the hard way that, to quote another member, "family=safety isn't a guarantee." I'm one of them.

Hang in there. As you continue to mature independent of your family ties, things will get someone easier when you can put some physical distance between you and your family.  Just make sure all your loose ends are tied up and you're of an appropriate legal age before you do so.

Take care - and feel free to PM me anytime.


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## bluemtn (Dec 21, 2005)

I hope you are feeling better- both physically and emotionally.  It is ok to vent- best to talk to people about it, and not keep it in.


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## MA-Caver (Dec 21, 2005)

Well Sam, the first part of the title to your post is certianly apt (grins). 
You're a good example of how the results of repetitive practice and training comes to the fore when you needed it. 
You're also a good example of a martialist showing discipline and restraint during "combat". 
And again you're a good example of (one of) the things that can happen afterwards. Me, I usually break-down and cry. Other people just shake for a few hours, still others respond to massive adrealine dumps/over-doses in their own way. This is my opinon as to why you started barfin'  all over the place. Our bodies are really just not used to that particular body chemical in large amounts.

I echo everyone else's sentiment that I'm glad you're okay and had responded well under the circumstances. Proud of you kiddo.

:asian:


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## still learning (Dec 21, 2005)

Hello, There are many people out there that is an only child.  They all wish they had a brother or a sister at one time or another.

My best friend was an only child and many times he talk about this. "I wish I had a brother or sister"

I am glad you and your sister are making contact........enjoy your moments together........Aloha


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## Jonathan Randall (Dec 21, 2005)

I'm so sorry you had to go through this, Sam. I had a bad family experience as well, and I know it is worse when you are still a minor and under the power of others. You will prevail, I am sure, and will be a stronger and more caring adult for the experience.

Family problems, suck though, no two ways about it. They take more out of a person emotionally and physically than just about anything else. I'm just glad you are ok. I think you have the drive and ambition that she may not and perhaps this arouses some animosity on her part? Whatever the case, take care of yourself. I think that you have a great future ahead of yourself.


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## Aikikitty (Dec 21, 2005)

I'm very sorry you had to go through all that! I'm sorry you felt and got sick too. I can understand a little about a freaky family member. I've had to defend myself from my brother who several times tried to seriously hurt me (different situation though). It takes a lot of restraint to not seriously hurt that person especially if you're mad at them and defending yourself. I'm proud of you! :asian:  And I'll pray for you too.

Feel Better,
Robyn :asian:


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## ammonihah99 (Dec 22, 2005)

That sucks and I'm sorry too that you were put in that situation, but . . .

I might be way off base here, but am I the only one who thinks that it's wrong to be hitting and kicking a girl . . . especially a sister? I mean I know that we're trained to defend ourselves, but if that was me and my teacher read what I just read, he'd kick the crap out of ME, and I'd be finding a new school.

I've been in situations where I've needed to restrain someone that was a friend who lost his temper, and it's difficult to control a situation like that, but when you start striking and kicking as hard as you can, it's out of hand.

I often think to myself, "What would a martial arts-trained police officer do?" The ones I know tend to stay away from striking and stick with defense-only and body manipulation principles. Because they are confident that they could easily handle the situation violently, it is more of a motivation to handle it non-violently.

Now that's one situation, but it's another when it's some person that you don't know. You have no idea what their skill level is. For all you know they have it in mind to kill you. That's when the blood starts pumping and you step it up a notch.

And maybe it's because I'm a really big guy and could handle easily my sister coming at me with all her fury. Keep in mind that I write this not knowing anything about you.

And aren't we taught to not let situations escalate? I wasn't there, but was there anything you could have done or said that would have given the story a better ending? The biggest trajedy is that your and your dad's relationship with your sister might be foever changed.

Again let me know if I'm out of line here. I want to know what you all think.

Ammon

P.S. Hi. I'm new here and I hail from Mesa, AZ.


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## Jonathan Randall (Dec 22, 2005)

ammonihah99 said:
			
		

> That sucks and I'm sorry too that you were put in that situation, but . . .
> 
> I might be way off base here, but am I the only one who thinks that it's wrong to be hitting and kicking a girl . . . especially a sister? I mean I know that we're trained to defend ourselves, but if that was me and my teacher read what I just read, he'd kick the crap out of ME, and I'd be finding a new school.
> 
> ...


 
First, I think that you are making the flawed assumption that physical assaults by family members are not as serious and as potentially life threatening as assaults by complete strangers. To the contrary, I think the LEO's on the board would point out that domestic situations can be the most violent of all. 

Secondly, welcome to MT!


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## Jade Tigress (Dec 22, 2005)

ammonihah99 said:
			
		

> That sucks and I'm sorry too that you were put in that situation, but . . .
> 
> I might be way off base here, but am I the only one who thinks that it's wrong to be hitting and kicking a girl . . . especially a sister? I mean I know that we're trained to defend ourselves, but if that was me and my teacher read what I just read, he'd kick the crap out of ME, and I'd be finding a new school.
> 
> ...



Hi ammonihah99. Welcome to MT. Why not pop over to Meet & Greet and introduce yourself there? 

On the subject of "Sam" and hitting girls, there appears to be some confusion. Sam isn't a brother beating up on his sister, our "Sam" is a girl, short for Samantha.


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## Sam (Dec 22, 2005)

ammonihah99 said:
			
		

> I've been in situations where I've needed to restrain someone that was a friend who lost his temper, and it's difficult to control a situation like that, but when you start striking and kicking as hard as you can, it's out of hand.


Hi Ammon. :wavey:Welcome to MT.  Just wanted to respond to a few things you said. out of the three techniques I used, only one was as 'hard as I could', and although I've been training religously for more than a year, you should keep in mind my size. Garanteed my side kick has 'oomph' too it, but I'm a 5 foot 2 girl - a kick thrown by yourself - admittedly a big guy - would have been much more devestating. I also changed the target area - normally I would throw it to the ribs or knee, but I didn't want to hurt her, just shock her and knock her on her butt. 



> I often think to myself, "What would a martial arts-trained police officer do?" The ones I know tend to stay away from striking and stick with defense-only and body manipulation principles. Because they are confident that they could easily handle the situation violently, it is more of a motivation to handle it non-violently.


I, on the other hand, was not confident of that at the time. I know logically, here and now, that I would have been fine, but I was pretty freaked out. My sister is much bigger than me, and although I'm a kenpoist, she gets into fights pretty often. Also, the evasion tactics I would have liked to use, (stepping off the line, going off angle) were not an option because of the small space. I think I mentioned it, we were in a hallway. 



> Now that's one situation, but it's another when it's some person that you don't know. You have no idea what their skill level is. For all you know they have it in mind to kill you. That's when the blood starts pumping and you step it up a notch.


Maybe it would be different if I routinely had to calm extremely angry friends - but my blood was definitely pumping. I was pretty shaky (literally) a while after the incident. I don't think she wanted to kill me, but she certainly wanted to hurt me more than I wanted to be hurt.



> And maybe it's because I'm a really big guy and could handle easily my sister coming at me with all her fury. Keep in mind that I write this not knowing anything about you.


I think by this point you realize that I am NOT a really big guy, and cannot claim the same.


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## shesulsa (Dec 22, 2005)

Might I say defending yourself against a family member can be very precarious - you almost want to beat the living crap out of them, but hesitate to do so for fear of really hurting a family member, even though they're hurting you ....
Ick. It's all very convoluted and melancholy and confusing.  You have to go back and think, okay, did I kick/hit him/her too hard or not hard enough? What will s/he bring on the next time? Will s/he come to his/her senses after this, or am I going to have to prepare for the absolute worst? Just how far am I willing to go on this if the **** really goes down?

And at first glance that last question seems easy to answer - I won't allow anyone else to take my life no matter their relation or lack thereof to me.  When you introduce an element of family, other very big questions come in and wreak havoc (even if we don't want to admit it).

Very icky indeed.

Sam, may I ask if you have discussed this with your instructor at all?


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## Sam (Dec 22, 2005)

well, this happened on tuesday, and I left the studio before I could talk to him (as I was  sick) and he wasnt at the studio yesterday because his wife was testing for her black belt (she got it). Tonight I have a private lesson, so I will be able to speak with him this evening. Why do you ask?


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## rutherford (Dec 22, 2005)

Sam said:
			
		

> Also, the evasion tactics I would have liked to use, (stepping off the line, going off angle) were not an option because of the small space. I think I mentioned it, we were in a hallway.


 
I think this is one of the things you should bring up with your instructor.  All this stuff works in confined spaces, plus you typically have all sorts of interesting things to bounce yourself and your opponent off.


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## shesulsa (Dec 22, 2005)

Sam said:
			
		

> Why do you ask?


Because I think it's a good self-defense situation to discuss with an expert. Confined space situations are worthy of exploring.  It also seems he has been supportive of you in the past and I thought it might be a good convo to have with him. Reactions, post-incident thoughts, etcetera, are all good topics to explore from a self-defense perspective.


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## ammonihah99 (Dec 22, 2005)

I apologize. I had foolishly assumed that you were a man. I also didn't know she was that threatening to you.

You know I was trying to figure out why, when all this was happening with your sister, your sis's boyfriend didn't step in and brawl with you too. Umm now I know why.

Boy do I feel sheepish.

Ammon


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## Blotan Hunka (Dec 22, 2005)

Isnt there a statistic somewhere that says that you are more likely to be killed or attacked by a family member than anybody else?  As to the close quarter stuff. The Modern Arnis stuff Ive been taught seems pretty good. Stepping off the line and quick chopping like mostins taht dont use a lot of wind up and knees and elbows.  But as nobody appears to have been hurt or put in jail I say it sounds like you did OK overall.


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## shesulsa (Dec 22, 2005)

ammonihah99 said:
			
		

> I apologize. I had foolishly assumed that you were a man. I also didn't know she was that threatening to you.
> 
> You know I was trying to figure out why, when all this was happening with your sister, your sis's boyfriend didn't step in and brawl with you too. Umm now I know why.
> 
> ...


It helps if take the time to read the entire post.  Something this lengthy and important deserves reading rather than Evelyn Wood scanning.  Much can get missed.


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## shesulsa (Dec 22, 2005)

Blotan Hunka said:
			
		

> Isnt there a statistic somewhere that says that you are more likely to be killed or attacked by a family member than anybody else?


I couldn't find that one, but I did find the statistic that a woman is more likely to be attacked by someone she knows - male or female.


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## MA-Caver (Dec 22, 2005)

rutherford said:
			
		

> I think this is one of the things you should bring up with your instructor.  All this stuff works in confined spaces, plus you typically have all sorts of interesting things to bounce yourself and your opponent off.


This is why Kenpo (among a few other arts) is a good "close quarter combat" art. It's been described to me aptly as the "phonebooth art" meaning you can take your fight there... So to speak.
Its using your environment to your advantage.

:asian:


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## Jonathan Randall (Dec 22, 2005)

Sam said:
			
		

> well, this happened on tuesday, and I left the studio before I could talk to him (as I was sick) and he wasnt at the studio yesterday because his wife was testing for her black belt (she got it). Tonight I have a private lesson, so I will be able to speak with him this evening. Why do you ask?


 
I also think that talking to someone close can be therapeutic. Family fights are especially traumatic. I went through the family Christmas from hell last year so I know. Hope everything works out for you and that your sister comes to her senses.


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## Adept (Dec 22, 2005)

One thing that stands out to me in this situation was your reliance on striking techniques. Personally, in this kind of situation, I would opt for compliance and submission techniques. I don't know if you train chokes and holds, or if you do but not to the same level as striking, but in that situation (restraining a sibling, friend, etc) I would first try and use low impact techniques, before resorting to striking.


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## rziriak (Dec 22, 2005)

Adept said:
			
		

> One thing that stands out to me in this situation was your reliance on striking techniques. Personally, in this kind of situation, I would opt for compliance and submission techniques. I don't know if you train chokes and holds, or if you do but not to the same level as striking, but in that situation (restraining a sibling, friend, etc) I would first try and use low impact techniques, before resorting to striking.



Kenpo is a striking art.  Every block is a strike and every strike is a block.


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## bignick (Dec 22, 2005)

Blotan Hunka said:
			
		

> Isnt there a statistic somewhere that says that you are more likely to be killed or attacked by a family member than anybody else?



Actually, I believe this is the first time in history where you are more likely to be killed by a stranger...

Now that's what I call progres...


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## searcher (Dec 22, 2005)

Just remember that you will always have your martial brothers and martial sisters that will be there for you.   It is a sad truth that there are family members that have to be this way.   I feel that you acted with great restraint and honor in how you dealt with the situation.   My hat is off to you.  I am not sure I could have held myself back.   Though the outcome is not something we would hope for it is better that you ended it quickly and YOU were not hurt.   This is why we push ourselves day in-day out.


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## Sam (Dec 22, 2005)

Adept said:
			
		

> One thing that stands out to me in this situation was your reliance on striking techniques. Personally, in this kind of situation, I would opt for compliance and submission techniques. I don't know if you train chokes and holds, or if you do but not to the same level as striking, but in that situation (restraining a sibling, friend, etc) I would first try and use low impact techniques, before resorting to striking.


 
We dont generally like chokes or holds. By examining the moves I am taught to use against them, I see what others could do to ME if I attempted a choke or hold on them.

She is my sister but I will not give her unnecessary opportunity to hurt me - even if that means she got an extra bruise.


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## Adept (Dec 23, 2005)

Sam said:
			
		

> By examining the moves I am taught to use against them, I see what others could do to ME if I attempted a choke or hold on them.



I don't want to drag the thread too off topic, but as a crowd controller/bouncer, I am often called on to use these techniques against violent, resisting persons, and when properly executed the opportunity for the other person to harm you is no greater than when executing striking techniques. I'd recommend taking a look at some jujitsu training to supplement your SD skills, if I were you.



> She is my sister but I will not give her unnecessary opportunity to hurt me - even if that means she got an extra bruise.



I can understand, and I agree 100%. But I ask you, how might the situation have panned out if you and your sister were alone in the house? From reading your opening post, it seems to me that you would have had to continue hitting her until she was physically unable to continue attacking you. When the only tools you have are strikes, this could have resulted in some quite serious injury to your sister. I'm not saying chokes, holds, SJM or submissions are _better_ than striking, but I think they are invaluable tools to have in your self defense bag.


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## Kreth (Dec 23, 2005)

Adept said:
			
		

> I don't want to drag the thread too off topic, but as a crowd controller/bouncer, I am often called on to use these techniques against violent, resisting persons, and when properly executed the opportunity for the other person to harm you is no greater than when executing striking techniques. I'd recommend taking a look at some jujitsu training to supplement your SD skills, if I were you.


I'd have to agree. Chokes, locks, and "come-alongs" are excellent tools to use in a situation where you don't want to hurt the other person, but don't mind putting them in a bit of pain...


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## shesulsa (Dec 23, 2005)

Kreth said:
			
		

> I'd have to agree. Chokes, locks, and "come-alongs" are excellent tools to use in a situation where you don't want to hurt the other person, but don't mind putting them in a bit of pain...


Agreed. I used a joint lock / pressure point combination on a relative.  Surprised the heck out of him.  He also stayed at a decent distance from that point forward.


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## Flying Crane (Dec 23, 2005)

Geez, guys, Sam just had a crazy, highly charged, emotional and violent confrontation with her sister.  I am not sure we need to pick at her technique.  She did well.  She defended herself and received thankfully little injury, and didn't severly hurt her sister either.  And she is still a relative newcomer to the martial arts on top of this.  Truly amazing.

This was an unpredictable situation that had the potential to become extremely explosive in a hurry, and there were probably precious few fractions of a second in which she was able to even consider what kind of technique was appropriate.  She acted on instinct based on her training, and survived the encounter and didn't deliver any overkill in the process.  She deserves a huge pat on the back and congratulations, and probably needs  a thorough round of hugs to boot.

It is always possible to second-guess what happened, but I'm not sure it is always necessary or appropriate.  These situations get out of control in the blink of an eye and it is often not possible to even think of these other things until it is too late.  Sometimes simple reaction is all that there is.  

Sam, you did amazingly well and showed a tremendous level of clear-headedness.  Well done, and you've got a huge hug from me, if it makes you feel any better about the situation.

Michael


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## arnisador (Dec 23, 2005)

Kreth said:
			
		

> I'd have to agree. Chokes, locks, and "come-alongs" are excellent tools to use in a situation where you don't want to hurt the other person, but don't mind putting them in a bit of pain...


 
True. But unless you're very practiced at them, they can be hard to get and maintain on a resisting opponent...especially if you're 5'2". I can strong-arm most people I run into without a literal lock at this point, but I'm a little over 5'10" and a little under 200#. I'm not sure the advice that's good for a bouncer at a business with back-up and having been chosen for the job based on qualifications is a good model for someone cornered in his or her home.

If all techniques were equally effective for everyone, then sure, use a lock. But...it ain't that simple. The kick made space and kept distance. Especially if it was unclear whether the boyfriend would join in--a possible multiple-opponent situation--that isn't a bad idea.

In any event, I can't believe that this kind of second-guessing is helpful.


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## Sam (Dec 23, 2005)

its a non issue anyway you guys, as I dont know locks or chokes.

considering the question that was asked, if I was alone with her, I would have continued to modify the techniques I was taught to different target areas until she got sick of trying to kill me. I think that would happen long before I would have to physically incapacitate her.


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## shesulsa (Dec 23, 2005)

Flying Crane said:
			
		

> Geez, guys, Sam just had a crazy, highly charged, emotional and violent confrontation with her sister.  I am not sure we need to pick at her technique.  She did well.  She defended herself and received thankfully little injury, and didn't severly hurt her sister either.  And she is still a relative newcomer to the martial arts on top of this.  Truly amazing.
> 
> This was an unpredictable situation that had the potential to become extremely explosive in a hurry, and there were probably precious few fractions of a second in which she was able to even consider what kind of technique was appropriate.  She acted on instinct based on her training, and survived the encounter and didn't deliver any overkill in the process.  She deserves a huge pat on the back and congratulations, and probably needs  a thorough round of hugs to boot.
> 
> ...


You're right and I share your sentiments too.  Perhaps we all jumped on the analysis part of it at an inappropriate moment.

It's second nature now to look back and analyze for many of us, Sam.  I like to look back and think, okay, was there a better way or a more effectual way? You know what I mean?  But that question is probably moot for you right now. The point of your thread is, I think, more along the lines of having to use self-defense skills on people you just shouldn't have to use them on. Is that right?


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## Sam (Dec 23, 2005)

I dont think the thread had a point other than "get this off my chest".

It's old news now, our family has moved onto a new crisis.
My grandmother is unconcious and her lungs are filling with fluid, and my dad is going to sign the "dont recessitate" papers now... she's dying.


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## Kreth (Dec 23, 2005)

Flying Crane said:
			
		

> It is always possible to second-guess what happened, but I'm not sure it is always necessary or appropriate.


I wasn't second-guessing Sam's actions. I think she did what was possible given the situation and her training. I simply felt that this statement, which seemed to imply that "soft" techniques are ineffective, was an inaccurate one:


			
				Sam said:
			
		

> We dont generally like chokes or holds. By examining the moves I am taught to use against them, I see what others could do to ME if I attempted a choke or hold on them.


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## Flying Crane (Dec 23, 2005)

Sam said:
			
		

> My grandmother is unconcious and her lungs are filling with fluid, and my dad is going to sign the "dont recessitate" papers now... she's dying.


 
Wow, man, I'm sorry.  Sounds like things are a little rough right now.  Sending good thoughts your way.


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## Adept (Dec 23, 2005)

arnisador said:
			
		

> In any event, I can't believe that this kind of second-guessing is helpful.



I wasn't trying to second guess anyone. I think after a confrontation is the best time to evaluate yourself and your training. You can take the 'real' part of the confrontation, and add slight hypothetical twists to it. You know that what you did worked, but would it have worked if the situation was different in some way? Could you have done something different to achieve a better outcome? Was your choice of techniques the best possible? Did you feel at any time like your repertoire of techniques was lacking? Answering these questions can greatly improve your career as a martial artist.

And like I said, locks, holds and so forth aren't better than strikes. They are just different, and (I believe) useful tools to have at your disposal.

Sorry for opening this debate here Sam, and I wasn't trying to second guess your actions at all. I think you deserve a big pat on the back for the way you handled yourself, and it's a downer of a situation you found yourself in.

[edit]I'm really sorry to hear about your Grandmother too.


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## Jonathan Randall (Dec 23, 2005)

Sam said:
			
		

> I dont think the thread had a point other than "get this off my chest".
> 
> It's old news now, our family has moved onto a new crisis.
> My grandmother is unconcious and her lungs are filling with fluid, and my dad is going to sign the "dont recessitate" papers now... she's dying.


 
I'm sorry to hear this, Sam. You have my sympathy during this time.


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## bluemtn (Dec 23, 2005)

I'm sorry to hear about your grandmother, sam.  My thoughts and prayers are with you and your family.


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## hong kong fooey (Dec 27, 2005)

man im really sorry to hear that all that happend i hope you can work things out with your sister


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## kenpo0324 (Dec 27, 2005)

I'm sorry to hear about your grandmother, Sam. My thoughts and prayers are with you and your family.


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## tellner (Dec 27, 2005)

Sam said:
			
		

> I dont think the thread had a point other than "get this off my chest".


Don't worry, that's what friends are for.



> It's old news now, our family has moved onto a new crisis.
> My grandmother is unconcious and her lungs are filling with fluid, and my dad is going to sign the "dont recessitate" papers now... she's dying.


I'm terribly sorry to hear that. It sounds like your father is making the very painful but necessary choice. Be there for him. No matter how right it is it's a hell of a thing to have to say "Let my mother die." 

Courage against a sudden attack is easier. You do what your training dictates, and it's over. Staring death in the face when you can't stop it and there's no person you can fight is much harder.


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## Sarah (Dec 27, 2005)

I am sorry to hear about your Grandma.

A lot of us are dealing with similar circumstances, it is never easy watching a loved one suffer, but it makes it that much harder when there are additional stresses in your life.

I am hoping you Grandma had a long happy life, and am thinking of you and your family at this difficult time.


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## Lisa (Dec 27, 2005)

My deepest sympathies Sam.  Watching a loved one slip away is by far one of the hardest things.  I hope she had a long and healthy life.  May she be at peace.


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