# A practical discussion on endurance and its limits



## Persian Kangaroo (Feb 27, 2020)

I competed in shotokan karate, junior MMA and kickboxing as a kid (10-14) with fairly good results for the chubby bastard I was for the first 2 years

My endurance was always sh*t, getting gassed out in the warm-up jog sometimes, but what I lacked in endurance and work ethic I made up in heavy hitting and overall power for a 12 year old, broke a punching bag and a competitor's helmet (we had NFL like bars helmets as juniors in MMA).

In contests, if the fights were unorganised and brawlish I would win. When we got older, 14 almost highschool ish, if my opponent was technical and fast enough to avoid my wilder schemes I would just get obliterated on points because 2nd round I'd be a slug in the center of the ring craving for gasps of air.

Bam. Girls. Highschool. Cigarettes, Weed, and a ton of other ****. Fast forward 7 years of sedentary debauchery and here I am, a softie blob

21 now, started practicing the king of endurance fighting- BOXING. I'm average build now, no longer chubby. Lost some muscle along the years of doing nothing. Slowly getting back in my pace and I love it. No longer have that raw power but trying to get it back. I feel faster tho.

Yet, the gassing out is always there. Everpresent. I feel as if it held me back so much back in the day. We had 2.5 hours eastern european style trainings at least 3 times a week so I was conditioning. I die in long jogs. Hate the **** out of it. Enjoy the rowing machine but don't get near one that often.Can't get past 30sec-minute ropeskip.

For those of you familiar or acquainted with this issue or just madmen in endurance, would you say grinding out everyday hitting the bag at maxspeed, running, doing all the **** I hate will increase my endurance to athlete level ever? 

I don't know if its relevant, but I do add/lose weight very easily and can control that pretty much now. I add muscle mass quickly and pretty much have high thresholds for things that involve strength since a kid. As a kid I was always at least somewhat chubby though. Ate a lot but pretty healthy food growing up


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## jobo (Feb 27, 2020)

Persian Kangaroo said:


> I competed in shotokan karate, junior MMA and kickboxing as a kid (10-14) with fairly good results for the chubby bastard I was for the first 2 years
> 
> My endurance was always sh*t, getting gassed out in the warm-up jog sometimes, but what I lacked in endurance and work ethic I made up in heavy hitting and overall power for a 12 year old, broke a punching bag and a competitor's helmet (we had NFL like bars helmets as juniors in MMA).
> 
> ...


you need to define what you want to achieve, the term endurance is meaningless with out clarification

do you want for instance to be able to do  3 x4 min rounds of intense effort and not gas out or do you want to run 10 miles and not gas out ? the training for each will be complexly different, if its the first then endless jogging wont really help much and you need to practice 5 x 5 min of intense effort


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## Persian Kangaroo (Feb 27, 2020)

jobo said:


> you need to define what you want to achieve, the term endurance is meaningless with out clarification
> 
> do you want for instance to be able to do  3 x4 min rounds of intense effort and not gas out or do you want to run 10 miles and not gas out ? the training for each will be complexly different, if its the first then endless jogging wont really help much and you need to practice 5 x 5 min of intense effort



Yes, I'd be more interested in being able to sustain high intensity bursts of 3-5 mins rather than marathon type of endurance for example. I always sucked at all types of cardio nevertheless, running out of air way before my muscles/joints


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## jobo (Feb 27, 2020)

Persian Kangaroo said:


> Yes, I'd be more interested in being able to sustain high intensity bursts of 3-5 mins rather than marathon type of endurance for example. I always sucked at all types of cardio nevertheless, running out of air way before my muscles/joints


doing sprint jog, sprint jog for half an hour or so, is good for building you aerobic base
but
do circuit training of one min high intensity one mins rest, then up it to 2 mins activity one rest, then three etc, when youve got it up to 5 mins then start building up another section or my particular favourite, run for 5 mins, then the next day keep the 5 mins but run further, then again and again


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Feb 27, 2020)

Persian Kangaroo said:


> Yes, I'd be more interested in being able to sustain high intensity bursts of 3-5 mins rather than marathon type of endurance for example. I always sucked at all types of cardio nevertheless, running out of air way before my muscles/joints


Look up HIIT, that'll help you out. There's also the possibility you've got asthma or some other lung issue. Get checked out if after doing this you find that you just can't get past a certain level.

What also happens is learning how to be more efficient in your movements and adding in extra rest stops. If you learn how to take breaks in those boxing rounds, and when you need them, it'll help you last for more rounds.


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## Bill Mattocks (Feb 27, 2020)

Jump rope. Done.


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## dvcochran (Feb 27, 2020)

kempodisciple said:


> Look up HIIT, that'll help you out. There's also the possibility you've got asthma or some other lung issue. Get checked out if after doing this you find that you just can't get past a certain level.
> 
> What also happens is learning how to be more efficient in your movements and adding in extra rest stops. If you learn how to take breaks in those boxing rounds, and when you need them, it'll help you last for more rounds.



I would add this regarding technique. Calm, relaxed, smooth, will get you exponentially farther in any sport than sheer strength. @Persian Kangaroo, assuming you do not have any breathing issues (I agree it is definitely worth getting checked out) learning how to exercise while not being tensed up and physically in a 'bind' will make an amazing difference.
After extended downtime from several injuries I could not figure out why I was sweating so much. It was just about all the time. I finally realized I was tensed up just about all the time. And, like you described, I would gas out really quick. When I worked on staying relaxed and 'smooth' things got much better. 
To the OP, welcome to the forum.


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## dvcochran (Feb 27, 2020)

Bill Mattocks said:


> Jump rope. Done.


If only my legs would still let me jump rope.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Feb 27, 2020)

dvcochran said:


> I would add this regarding technique. Calm, relaxed, smooth, will get you exponentially farther in any sport than sheer strength. @Persian Kangaroo, assuming you do not have any breathing issues (I agree it is definitely worth getting checked out) learning how to exercise while not being tensed up and physically in a 'bind' will make an amazing difference.
> After extended downtime from several injuries I could not figure out why I was sweating so much. It was just about all the time. I finally realized I was tensed up just about all the time. And, like you described, I would gas out really quick. When I worked on staying relaxed and 'smooth' things got much better.
> To the OP, welcome to the forum.


Jumping off of this, you reminded me of something else that can help out, which most people don't seem to realize. Yoga and/or tai chi. They help really well because they teach you how to untense(?) your body.


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## drop bear (Feb 28, 2020)

Sounds like you get board with the exercise. Rather than cardioed.


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## jobo (Feb 28, 2020)

the problem here is the term '' gassed out '' doesn't seem to have a strict definition, other than you run out of energy and usually co ordination. its idemtifying symtoms rather than cause

now it will be at least partly oxygen related, both in the bodies ability to metabolise it and the efficient use of it, but it can equally be the muscles has tired and you loose strength and co ordination and or that some muscles have run out of glucose

the effect of ruining out of glucose is your body diverts glucose reserved for the brain to which ever muscle is demanding it and your co ordination and balance fall off dramatically

thats why you have to be careful what exercises you do, running and jump rope etc are great for building the muscles endurance and glucose reserve in your legs and for all round metabolising oxygen, but do nothing at all for the upper body, endurance and glucose reserve. legs working fine but your shoulder muscles gone isnt ideal in a fight, but it will fell like your legs are gone as your ability to stand up diminishes as your brain is deprived of glucose, to feed your shoulder muscles

 so full body endurance exercises are the way to go, quite possibly including sprints and jump rope


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## dvcochran (Feb 28, 2020)

jobo said:


> the problem here is the term '' gassed out '' doesn't seem to have a strict definition, other than you run out of energy and usually co ordination. its idemtifying symtoms rather than cause
> 
> now it will be at least partly oxygen related, both in the bodies ability to metabolise it and the efficient use of it, but it can equally be the muscles has tired and you loose strength and co ordination and or that some muscles have run out of glucose
> 
> ...


Good post but cannot agree with all of that. The body stores reserve glucose in the liver and in glycogen 'globules' in the muscles (which I think you referred. to). But the body also prioritizes its use and the brain, being at the top of the food chain, will always take precedence.
I agree with all the symptoms you describe when a person gets 'gassed' but it is the lack of oxygen that affects the brain the most when a person gets 'gassed'. 
We all know there are supplements and food we can take pre-workout that enhance glucose availability. 
It is hard to say for certain what the OP needs to do first or the most. As you said, it is a very broad question. For simplicity's sake I think I would suggest finding a good cardio/strength plan and sticking to it. When it get 'easier' to complete, add to it or modify it. This is standard trainer methodology. 
So if we are checking boxes: The OP needs to:
Get checked out to ensure there are no underlying issues with breathing/lungs and such.
Keep working out. This alone will likely remedy all the 'problems'.
Choose A program and stick to it. Forget all the other noise for a while. 
Measure and record workouts and figure where/how gains or regression is coming from. 

I hear you saying it loudly. There is no real magic to it. Just put in the time.


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## jobo (Feb 28, 2020)

dvcochran said:


> Good post but cannot agree with all of that. The body stores reserve glucose in the liver and in glycogen 'globules' in the muscles (which I think you referred. to). But the body also prioritizes its use and the brain, being at the top of the food chain, will always take precedence.
> I agree with all the symptoms you describe when a person gets 'gassed' but it is the lack of oxygen that affects the brain the most when a person gets 'gassed'.
> We all know there are supplements and food we can take pre-workout that enhance glucose availability.
> It is hard to say for certain what the OP needs to do first or the most. As you said, it is a very broad question. For simplicity's sake I think I would suggest finding a good cardio/strength plan and sticking to it. When it get 'easier' to complete, add to it or modify it. This is standard trainer methodology.
> ...


ive not read up on it for 5 tyears, right when i was running out whilst cycling, but the liver make synthetic glucose, for the brain, it has its own supply, which it then diverts as part of the survival mode to your muscles, if it concludes your being chased by a sabre tooth cat, as running is far more important than cognitive function, when being chased by a large predator, it concludes if you dont stop when the glucose runs out, it must be life threatening

its a syndrome particularly with cyclists (and other endurance athletes) that their brain packs up, if they dont stop and take on glucose and they crash. Therese various names for it in varies sports, in fighting its called gassing out, in running it called hitting the wall, i forget the cycling name

but its all the same issue, the brain ceasing to function properly as the glucose is going elsewhere


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## Buka (Feb 28, 2020)

Welcome to Martial talk, Persian Kangaroo. And stay at it, you're still just a kid.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Feb 28, 2020)

Try some Marathon. You may like it.


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