# Why Americans believe Obama is a Muslim



## Bill Mattocks (Aug 31, 2010)

Interesting study results...not something I'd have guessed.

http://scienceblog.com/38014/why-americans-believe-obama-is-a-muslim/



> On average, participants who supported McCain said there is a 56 percent likelihood Obama is a Muslim. But when they were asked to fill out a demographic card asking for their own race, the likelihood jumped to 77 percent. Kosloff said this shows that simply thinking about a social category that differentiated participants from Obama was enough to get them to believe the smear.
> 
> ...
> 
> ...


----------



## WC_lun (Aug 31, 2010)

Its willfull ignorance in order to make him into something that is easier to dislike.  It isn't a big mystery.


----------



## Bill Mattocks (Aug 31, 2010)

WC_lun said:


> Its willfull ignorance in order to make him into something that is easier to dislike.  It isn't a big mystery.



In the case of the study, it actually seems to show not just the Obama-Muslim issue, but why people in general choose to believe some of these outlandish things.


----------



## Empty Hands (Aug 31, 2010)

Bill Mattocks said:


> In the case of the study, it actually seems to show not just the Obama-Muslim issue, but why people in general choose to believe some of these outlandish things.



"Choose" does seem to be the operative word.  The numbers indicate that with time, people who used to believe he was a Christian now either claim they don't know, or believe he is a Muslim.  Odd to change your opinions like that based on political dissatisfaction.  I like Obama so he is a Christian, I dislike Obama so he is a Muslim?  Seems pretty odd.


----------



## WC_lun (Aug 31, 2010)

Bill Mattocks said:


> In the case of the study, it actually seems to show not just the Obama-Muslim issue, but why people in general choose to believe some of these outlandish things.


 
Yeah, I think it is human nature.  If a person is less like me then it is easier to see them as less than me.  If I know that a person has more similarities to me than differences, it is much harder to hold onto the anger and hate of them.

Something I've noticed from people I know is the weaker thier arguement against something or someone, the more likely they will resort to this willfull ignorance.  For an example, I know sevaral people that are not fans of President Obama.  Naturally I ask them why.  Some will list genuine disagreements with his policies and they'll be able to articulate that and an intellegent conversation will follow.  Others will start spouting of the nonsense stuff.  They don't have specific problems with his policies, but they are stubborn about thier percieved differences make him a bad president.  As the article you posted points out, this is not helped by irresponsable media.


----------



## Bill Mattocks (Aug 31, 2010)

Empty Hands said:


> "Choose" does seem to be the operative word.  The numbers indicate that with time, people who used to believe he was a Christian now either claim they don't know, or believe he is a Muslim.  Odd to change your opinions like that based on political dissatisfaction.  I like Obama so he is a Christian, I dislike Obama so he is a Muslim?  Seems pretty odd.



It may well be counter-intuitive, but that appears to be the result the study came up with.  ??? I wish I could read the actual study results.


----------



## Carol (Aug 31, 2010)

WC_lun said:


> Yeah, I think it is human nature.  If a person is less like me then it is easier to see them as less than me.  If I know that a person has more similarities to me than differences, it is much harder to hold onto the anger and hate of them.
> 
> Something I've noticed from people I know is the weaker thier arguement against something or someone, the more likely they will resort to this willfull ignorance.  For an example, I know sevaral people that are not fans of President Obama.  Naturally I ask them why.  Some will list genuine disagreements with his policies and they'll be able to articulate that and an intellegent conversation will follow.  Others will start spouting of the nonsense stuff.  They don't have specific problems with his policies, but they are stubborn about thier percieved differences make him a bad president.  As the article you posted points out, this is not helped by irresponsable media.



I agree with you wholeheartedly.

Personally I think calling President Obama a Muslim is little more than name-calling.  

The President has room for criticism, should someone want to bring a debate on the issues.  But to the folks that don't want to put efforts in to a a reasonable debate, it seems easier just call him names.


----------



## cdunn (Aug 31, 2010)

The human mind can, when bent to the task, do a SUPERB job of compartmentalizing bits of condradictory information from each other. That, when a person is reminded of a difference between Obama and himself, he can reach into the bin labeled 'differences' and grab a whole bunch and not really examine those differences critically is relatively unsurprising.


----------



## WC_lun (Aug 31, 2010)

What I never understand is how Muslim = not competent to hold office?  I don't seem to recall a specific religious criteria to hold the office of president.  Lets see, a citizen...at least 35 years old...no felony record...nope no religious requirement.  Makes this kind of a moot arguement even if it was true.


----------



## Bill Mattocks (Aug 31, 2010)

WC_lun said:


> What I never understand is how Muslim = not competent to hold office?  I don't seem to recall a specific religious criteria to hold the office of president.  Lets see, a citizen...at least 35 years old...no felony record...nope no religious requirement.  Makes this kind of a moot arguement even if it was true.



The Constitution even says there shall be NO religious requirement at all, ever.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Religious_Test_Clause


----------



## MBuzzy (Aug 31, 2010)

But to the general american public, ALL MUSLIMS ARE EVIL.  We love to say how we are the land of the free and everyone is equal and no one is racist and all of that great stuff, but it seems that after 9/11, there are many normally rational people, who want to believe that anyone who holds a particular religious belief is somehow evil.


----------



## Empty Hands (Aug 31, 2010)

Bill Mattocks said:


> I wish I could read the actual study results.



The link to the HTML text is here.  If that doesn't work for you, PM me your email, and I can forward you a .pdf version of the article.


----------



## chrispillertkd (Aug 31, 2010)

It obviously has nothing to do with him talking about Islam all the time, telling NASA they have a mission to make Muslims feel good about themselevs, referring to "the Holy Qu'ran" repeatedly, mentioning "[his] Muslim faith" to George Stephanopolis on televison, saying that the Muslim call to prayer is "one of the prettiest sounds on earth," or anything like that. It's because people are willfully ignorant and bigots. 

For the record, I believe he's a Christian. But I'm sure I'm just being somehow willfully ignorant for pointing out the above.

Pax,

Chris


----------



## elder999 (Aug 31, 2010)

Bill Mattocks said:


> The Constitution even says there shall be NO religious requirement at all, ever.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Religious_Test_Clause


 

Well, what people can think and feel has never been ruled by the Constitution. THere was all that flap about electing Kennedy as the first Catholic President-how many votes do you think that lost him, and is it anybody's business but the voter's if it did?We *still* haven't had a Jewish President.


----------



## CanuckMA (Aug 31, 2010)

elder999 said:


> We *still* haven't had a Jewish President.


 

We're smarter than that.


----------



## Bill Mattocks (Aug 31, 2010)

elder999 said:


> Well, what people can think and feel has never been ruled by the Constitution. THere was all that flap about electing Kennedy as the first Catholic President-how many votes do you think that lost him, and is it anybody's business but the voter's if it did?We *still* haven't had a Jewish President.



The John Birch Society (I seem to recall) believes (still) that President Franklin D. Roosevelt was Jewish.


----------



## elder999 (Aug 31, 2010)

Bill Mattocks said:


> The John Birch Society (I seem to recall) believes (still) that President Franklin D. Roosevelt was Jewish.


 
Yeah, so does Glenn Beck.....:lfao:


----------



## Bill Mattocks (Aug 31, 2010)

chrispillertkd said:


> It obviously has nothing to do with him talking about Islam all the time, telling NASA they have a mission to make Muslims feel good about themselevs, referring to "the Holy Qu'ran" repeatedly, mentioning "[his] Muslim faith" to George Stephanopolis on televison, saying that the Muslim call to prayer is "one of the prettiest sounds on earth," or anything like that. It's because people are willfully ignorant and bigots.
> 
> For the record, I believe he's a Christian. But I'm sure I'm just being somehow willfully ignorant for pointing out the above.
> 
> ...



OK, then let's talk about willful ignorance.

1) He "talks about Islam all the time."  Without specific references, I don't know what you mean.  Obviously, the topic comes up quite a bit, whether with regard to terrorism or the accusations that he's a secret Muslim, etc.  I think it's a bit ridiculous to complain that he 'talks about Islam all the time' when people are accusing him of being a Muslim.  He'd kind of have to, eh?

2) NASA.  He didn't say it. Charles Bolden did, his head of NASA:

http://www.nasawatch.com/archives/2010/07/charlie-bolden-2.html

_When I became the NASA Administrator - before I became the NASA Administrator - he charged me with three things: One was that he wanted me to re-inspire children to want to get into science and math, that he wanted me to expand our international relationships, and third, and perhaps foremost, he wanted me to find a way to reach out to the Muslim world and engage much more with predominantly Muslim nations to help them feel good about their historic contribution to science, math, and engineering."_


Badly worded, aye.  But he did not say - and President Obama most definitely did not say - that NASA's mission is to make Muslims 'feel good about themselves'.

3) Referring to the Koran repeatedly.  The only reference I can find is June 4, 2009, when he was giving a speech to Muslims in Cairo.  Do you have other references?

Oh, by the way, I did find several references to former President George Bush quoting from the Koran.  September 17, 2001 ("Muslims should feel safe" speech) and December 16, 2001.  Is George Bush a Muslim?  George also visited a mosque.  The Pope and Tony Blair have also quoted the Koran.  Probably Muslims too.

4) Admitted he was a Muslim on TV.  

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/muslimfaith.asp

5) Muslim Call to Prayer is the "prettiest sound on earth."

Yep, he said it:

http://select.nytimes.com/2007/03/06/opinion/06kristof.html?_r=1

I don't know if it's a pretty sound or not.  If I did, would it make me a Muslim?

I understand that you said you did not believe President Obama is a Muslim.  However, you made it clear that people who do believe it are not operating on ignorance.  Frankly, I have to doubt that.  The facts are there, pretty clearly.  I don't see where anything President Obama has said or done would convince anyone of even average intelligence that he was a Muslim unless they desperately wanted to believe it.


----------



## elder999 (Aug 31, 2010)

chrispillertkd said:


> For the record, I believe he's a Christian. But I'm sure I'm just being somehow willfully ignorant for pointing out the above.
> 
> Pax,
> 
> Chris


----------



## CanuckMA (Aug 31, 2010)

Oh and BTW, is Fox funding the mosque? :lfao:


http://mediamatters.org/blog/201008200055


----------



## elder999 (Aug 31, 2010)

Bill Mattocks said:


> 5) Muslim Call to Prayer is the "prettiest sound on earth."
> 
> Yep, he said it:
> 
> ...


 
As a singer, I have to say that it's pretty cool.

http://www.learnnc.org/lp/media/collections/world/kpaudio/Malaysia/kuala_kangsar_call_to_prayer.mp3


But I like all kinds of music, so.....


----------



## chrispillertkd (Aug 31, 2010)

Bill Mattocks said:


> OK, then let's talk about willful ignorance.
> 
> 1) He "talks about Islam all the time." Without specific references, I don't know what you mean.


 
I mean just what I said. He talks about Islam a lot. Quotes from the Qu'ran. Refers to Islam's contributions to civilization. Etc. He does it often. Apparently you haven't noticed it. I have. One weird thing was when he was talking about how western countries shouldn't prevent Muslims from fulfilling Zakkat. Frankly, I don't know of any country that does that. It was a weird statement to make, but whatever. 



> Obviously, the topic comes up quite a bit, whether with regard to terrorism or the accusations that he's a secret Muslim, etc. I think it's a bit ridiculous to complain that he 'talks about Islam all the time' when people are accusing him of being a Muslim. He'd kind of have to, eh?


 
It wasn't a complaint, Bill. In fact, none of my post was a complaint. I thought that was obvious. It was an explanation of why _other people_ could possibly draw the conclusion that he's a Muslim. 



> 2) NASA. He didn't say it. Charles Bolden did, his head of NASA:
> 
> http://www.nasawatch.com/archives/2010/07/charlie-bolden-2.html
> 
> ...


 
He told Bolden to make Muslims "feel good aout their historic contributions to science, math and engineering." That entails making them feel good about themselves, I'd say. FWIW, you'll notice I didn't put quotation marks around _my_ statement in this regard to indicate that it wasn't a quote. Thought that was obvious, too. 



> 3) Referring to the Koran repeatedly. The only reference I can find is June 4, 2009, when he was giving a speech to Muslims in Cairo. Do you have other references?


 
He mentions studying the Qu'ran in _Dreams from My Father_, he's mentioned it in interviews, etc. 



> Oh, by the way, I did find several references to former President George Bush quoting from the Koran. September 17, 2001 ("Muslims should feel safe" speech) and December 16, 2001. Is George Bush a Muslim?


 
Why ask me? I said I believe Obama is a Muslim. 



> George also visited a mosque. The Pope and Tony Blair have also quoted the Koran. Probably Muslims too.


 
Totally. You can tell by the way they have repeatedly made reference to their Muslim fathers, growing up in Muslim countries, having Muslim fathers-in-law, getting in trouble when they were supposed to be studying the Qu'ran, having other Muslim relatives. It's the exact same thing as with Obama. 



> 4) Admitted he was a Muslim on TV.
> 
> http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/muslimfaith.asp


 
I never said he said he wa a Muslim on TV. I said he referred to "[his] Muslim faith" to Stephanopolis. I'm well aware of the context of the comment (him complaining about other people - again). 



> 5) Muslim Call to Prayer is the "prettiest sound on earth."
> 
> Yep, he said it:
> 
> ...


 
Having a certain aesthetic sense wouldn't make you a Muslim, of course. But you're simply ignoring the point of my post, viz. providing several examples of what he said over the course of time that could give people reason to believe that he wasa Muslim. Most people, I imagine, aren't exactly hanging out in the blogosphere reading up on the latest conspiracy theory. They tend to draw conlusions based on things they see people doing or hear people saying. 



> I understand that you said you did not believe President Obama is a Muslim. However, you made it clear that people who do believe it are not operating on ignorance.


 
Actually, what I said was: "But I'm sure I'm just being somehow _willfully_ ignorant for pointing out the above [emphasis added]." The issue isn't people making decisions based on ignorance. We all do that every day. The issue is whether they do it based on _willfull_ ignorance. I was simply pointing out that Obama has said and done things that could conceivably make people think he's a Muslim. 



> Frankly, I have to doubt that. The facts are there, pretty clearly. I don't see where anything President Obama has said or done would convince anyone of even average intelligence that he was a Muslim unless they desperately wanted to believe it.


 
If only everyine thought exactly the same thing based on exactly the same evidence the world would be a much simpler place.

Pax,

Chris


----------



## chrispillertkd (Aug 31, 2010)

elder999 said:


>


 
You're right, I'm sure it's the exact same people who were upset that Obama was tight with a racist pastor who think he's now a Muslim.

Oh, wait. It's easy to lump people into the same group to make them seem stupid. I get it now.

Pax,

Chris


----------



## elder999 (Aug 31, 2010)

chrispillertkd said:


> You're right, I'm sure it's the exact same people who were upset that Obama was tight with a racist pastor


 
That's odd-what did Rev. Wright say that was "racist?" Not *crazy*, mind you-but _racist._


----------



## chrispillertkd (Aug 31, 2010)

elder999 said:


> That's odd-what did Rev. Wright say that was "racist?" Not *crazy*, mind you-but _racist._


 
Barack knows what it means living in a country and a culture that is controlled by rich white people. Hillary would never know that. Hillary aint never been called a [n-word]. Hillary has never had a people defined as a non-person.

Racist. And a bit crazy, IMNSHO.

Pax,

Chris
​


----------



## elder999 (Aug 31, 2010)

Racist. And a bit crazy, IMNSHO.​ 
Pax,​ 



chrispillertkd said:


> Barack knows what it means living in a country and a culture that is controlled by rich white people. Hillary would never know that. Hillary aint never been called a [n-word]. Hillary has never had a people defined as a non-person.
> Chris​



Well, let's take a look at that, one sentence at a time.



> Barack knows what it means living in a country and a culture that is controlled by rich white people.


 
Whether you like it or not, we live in a country and culture that is controlled by rich white people, so I see this as a statement of fact-that, as a *black man*, Barack's experience of that is something that is shared with the majority of that congregation, and not a racist  statement at all.



> Hillary would never know that.


 
On the one hand, he's right-Hillary is white, and wouldn't know what it's like to be black. On the other hand, he's completely dismissive of how she's experienced American society and culture as a _woman_-he merely lumps her in with "rich white people," which, after all, she *is*. 

Not racist at all.





> Hillary aint never been called a [n-word]. Hillary has never had a people defined as a non-person.​




Black people have been and continue (by some) to be defined as "non-persons," and are still called "******." Odds are good that Hillary hasn't. Again we have a statement of facts, both historical and current.

Of course, this all quite _inflammatory_, and possibly indicative of some deep-seated problems. Racism may even be among those problems, but the statements themselves are not racist.​


----------



## chrispillertkd (Aug 31, 2010)

Yeah, he's a racist. And what he said is racist.

Pax,

Chris


----------



## elder999 (Aug 31, 2010)

chrispillertkd said:


> Yeah, he's a racist. And what he said is racist.
> 
> Pax,
> 
> Chris


 


Oooh, another concise,pointed, and effective argument.

He probably *is* racist, but what he said (_especiall_y what you posted) isn't.


----------



## Bruno@MT (Sep 1, 2010)

WC_lun said:


> What I never understand is how Muslim = not competent to hold office?  I don't seem to recall a specific religious criteria to hold the office of president.  Lets see, a citizen...at least 35 years old...no felony record...nope no religious requirement.  Makes this kind of a moot arguement even if it was true.



That was what I was thinking. It doesn't have any objective relevance, just like sexual preferences. How would it make him less suited for office if he was a gay muslim?


----------



## elder999 (Sep 1, 2010)

Bill Mattocks said:


> I don't know if it's a pretty sound or not. If I did, would it make me a Muslim?.


 
And for the record, I have every recording Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan ever made-you haven't had sex until you've done it to Qawali.......that's Pakistani Sufi music.....and I'm no Muslim, as I'm just as likely to have spareribs and beer afterwards...:lfao:

[yt]eP7sCkRw7p8[/yt]


----------



## Carol (Sep 1, 2010)

elder999 said:


> you haven't had sex until you've done it to Qawali


----------



## crushing (Sep 1, 2010)

Bill Mattocks said:


> 5) Muslim Call to Prayer is the "prettiest sound on earth."


 
I'm not sure I've heard the Muslim Call to Prayer, but when I was deployed to Desert Shield/Storm I would tune my walkman in to a local radio station because the music sounded so beautiful.

It was through the walkman that I learned that the war had started.


----------



## punisher73 (Sep 1, 2010)

First, I am *not *a big fan of Obama.

But, I have to say that IMO the reason that he talks about Islam so much etc. as others have claimed is that he is trying to build a bridge to the majority of Muslims and gain support for the US and not because he was secretly a muslim all along and only _claimed _to be a Christian until elected.


----------



## Bill Mattocks (Sep 1, 2010)

I just had a fun conversation with one of my sisters.

Sis: Obama had a Muslim father, so by Muslim law, he's a Muslim.
Me: So he's doomed to be a Muslim forever, and can never be a Christian?
Sis: Right.  He's a Muslim.  The Koran says so.
Me: So, Christ's promise to us that if we accept Him as Lord and Savior is overruled by the Koran?  Christ was a liar?
Sis: Shut up.​I love my family.


----------



## MA-Caver (Sep 1, 2010)

Empty Hands said:


> Bill Mattocks said:
> 
> 
> > In the case of the study, it actually seems  to show not just the Obama-Muslim issue, but why people in general  choose to believe some of these outlandish things.
> ...


Odd indeed, especially people forgetting that the people who put Obama in the position in the first place (his party and etc) aren't STUPID enough to do something like that in the first place. They've run the political system for a LONG time they're not about try to sneak something in knowing full well that if found out the whole faith in the political system will come down like a house of cards.

I dunno (or care) if he (Obama) is a muslim or not. I'm disappointed that the man turned out like EVERY other political bastard over the past 50 years... a used car-salesman in the most powerful position on the planet.


----------



## Bill Mattocks (Sep 1, 2010)

MA-Caver said:


> I dunno (or care) if he (Obama) is a muslim or not. I'm disappointed that the man turned out like EVERY other political bastard over the past 50 years... a used car-salesman in the most powerful position on the planet.



Absolutely agreed.


----------



## Big Don (Sep 1, 2010)

MA-Caver said:


> I dunno (or care) if he (Obama) is a muslim or not. I'm disappointed that the man turned out like EVERY other political bastard over the past 50 years... a used car-salesman in the most powerful position on the planet.


But, you aren't surprised by it, are you?
Honestly, as I've said before, I doubt he has ANY deep religious beliefs, religion requires that you believe something is greater than yourself, and I don't think he does...


----------



## Empty Hands (Sep 1, 2010)

But George Bush was a man of deep and abiding faith, right Don?


----------



## Big Don (Sep 1, 2010)

Empty Hands said:


> But George Bush was a man of deep and abiding faith, right Don?


 Oooh, the Bush Derangement Syndrome rears it's head again...


----------



## Empty Hands (Sep 1, 2010)

Big Don said:


> Oooh, the Bush Derangement Syndrome rears it's head again...



Nothing to do with Bush himself.  I have no reason to believe that Bush is not a man of faith.  It has to do with your biases and preconceptions.  I also have no reason to believe that Obama is not a man of faith, and in reality, neither do you.


----------



## MA-Caver (Sep 1, 2010)

Big Don said:


> But, you aren't surprised by it, are you?
> Honestly, as I've said before, I doubt he has ANY deep religious beliefs, religion requires that you believe something is greater than yourself, and I don't think he does...


Shure he does... 

Money

Power

All that the above can give him... in exchange for doing exactly what the men behind the curtain want him to do.

Bush did it... now they got more control over us. 
Obama is DOING it spending us worse into debt ... taking what Bush did one step further down the rung until we are helpless and will cry out for help... then cometh a savior... from whence they will come... is yet to be seen. 
Obama wasn't the savior... he was like John the baptist... a forerunner for he to come. 

God help us.


----------



## Big Don (Sep 2, 2010)

Because they are all criminals? According to widely known genius Roger Ebert:To do anything less at this troubled time in our history would be a crime against America.


----------

