# It Doesn't Work!



## MJS (Oct 28, 2010)

Came across this article on another forum. I thought it was interesting and worth posting again.  It was written by Dave Turton. 




> You hear this statement, or something very similar, often about martial arts or self-defence techniques.
> Whether its from a competitor in a small first-time competition, or someone who has done some self-defence training and had to _use_ it in a real situation, this statement must have been heard by training partners and instructors countless times.
> Ive heard this many times over my 40 plus years of instructing, never mind my nearly fifty years involved.
> Lets face it, we all expect our techniques, methods and principles to WORK when we put them to the test. So, what do we REALLY mean when we say _it doesnt work_?
> ...


 
A little about Dave.


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## Sukerkin (Oct 28, 2010)

A nice article that which covers the truth at the heart of an all too familiar topic for those of us who have been in 'hard' or 'rough' company when it is discovered that we're "One of them chop suey fighters!" .


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## Touch Of Death (Oct 28, 2010)

Just say, "Oh; you mean it doesn't work for you."
Sean


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## girlbug2 (Oct 29, 2010)

SD techniques are not set-in-stone to be followed rigidly the way they are drilled. Everything must be modified to fit the situation at hand. When I hear "it doesn't work" I am likely to think that the defender didn't understand the principles behind the technique well enough to "tweak" it as needed.


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## Xue Sheng (Oct 29, 2010)

All that and he gives out (sells) SD diplomas too.... :hmm:

A fight is fluid, training MA tends to be rigid, just relax and train and do not get caught up in rigid patterns

Besides we covered this here YEARS ago


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## Tez3 (Oct 29, 2010)

Yay for Dave! :ultracool


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## bluewaveschool (Oct 29, 2010)

A lot of times SD techniques that 'don't work' also, I've found, have to be slightly modified for body type/size.  One of my instructors is a small woman of 4'10, I'm 5'11.  We can't do some of the same techs the same way.


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## Tanaka (Oct 29, 2010)

Most of that stuff is already stressed in our school.


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## MJS (Oct 30, 2010)

I liked this article, because many times, especially when I'm debating with other Kenpo folks, many times they seem so bound by the techs. that they don't allow for anything that would be considered freestyling from the tech. 

As for the link that Xue posted....well, he's certainly not the only one who does this, but IMO, I personally am not a fan of it. I wouldn't want to train under someone who attended a 6hr course, but thats another thread. 

I've read alot of good things about Dave, and perhaps Tez knows of him better, so I'm not going to totally disregard his knowledge/skill, etc.

Of course Tez, if you do know more about him, I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts.


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## Tez3 (Oct 30, 2010)

The people who go on the 6 hour course are actually people who have been training for a very long time under recognised intructors, it's not a case of turning up paying your money and getting a certificate to teach. It's a very well respected and honest organisation. My instructor is a BCA instructor as is Iain Abernethy. Other instructors and members are some of the most respected people in British martial arts and self defence. I'm hoping to be but am not there yet and I've been training self defence for over ten years but am not at a standard to teach yet. It's very hard.

Dave is honest, straight talking and approachable, one of the good guys depsite what some may read into his website.

I suggest emailing him with questions, comments etc. rather than jump to conclusions about his training.

Or have a read here and ask.
http://selfprotection.lightbb.com/q-a-with-dave-turton-f4/


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## Brian R. VanCise (Oct 30, 2010)

*One thing I personally* have found over time is that there are some things I could probably not make work in a violent confrontation.  There are however a few things that I have made work that some other people might have a difficult time doing.  There simply are no absolutes in what we do.  We would all agree that trying to kick a knife out of some ones hand is a low percentage move.  Yet in college I knew someone who did this! (yes it was witnessed)  Certainly not some thing I would ever try but in that moment it worked for him.  *There are no absolutes!*  So be fluid in what you do and as Xue said *relax* and do not get caught up in *rigid motions just train*!


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## Langenschwert (Nov 16, 2010)

Great article.

In KdF, the same kind of attitude is found in the period manuscripts. The design is such that if one technique fails, it will set you up to use another. I never expect to hit an opponent on my first strike. It doesn't mean I don't try to do so. But I know from typical engagement range in an encounter with long blades, the first strike has about an 80% failure rate in that the opponent will defend himself somehow. However, the 80% is what we train for in case the 20% doesn't work. However, if I can close from Zufechten (one step distance) to Krieg (where blades are crossed) without getting hit, then that's the next best thing... it means I'm one step closer to winning the fight.

The main thing is to never give up. One must be courageous, as all the refined technique in the world won't mean anything if you don't have the heart to get in there and risk injury... you are in a fight after all.

As Fiore dei Liberi said in 1409: "Audacity is the virtue that makes this art"

Best regards,

-Mark


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