# SPM question



## Tremble (Jan 21, 2005)

Can anyone practicing SPM give any insight into Charp Choi?
What it's for, what it develops etc?
An Mpeg would be fantastic.
Thanks.


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## 7starmantis (Jan 21, 2005)

Welcome to the boards Tremble. There are alot of knowledgeable and experienced people here so ask any questions you have and feel free to post on any thread. If you have any questions feel free to ask.

 I dont personally practice Southern Mantis, but maybe if you explained a bit of what charp choi is, I might be able to help. 

 -MT Mod-
 7starmantis
 Adam


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## clfsean (Jan 21, 2005)

I've never seen SPM use that. I've always seen Phoenix Eye or Ginger Fist. Do they use it??

Charp Choi == Ping Ahn Choi == Leopard Paw Punch


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## j_m (Jan 21, 2005)

Doesn't charp choi = Phoenix Eye fist?  Which should be differnt form leapord paw?  Maybe?  just guessing from things I've heard 




jm


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## clfsean (Jan 21, 2005)

Hmmm... 

"Charp" is a variant of "Chaap"/"Chop"/"Tsop", etc...  depending on dialect for "Stabbing"... Chop Choi = Stabbing punch. For the branch of Hung Sing CLF I practice a Chop Choi is just a straight on punch with either hand, front or back. For me a "Ping Ahn Choi" or "Level Eye Punch" is a leopard paw punch.

In Buk Sing CLF, it's a specific punch they use with a leopard paw fist. 

I've just heard the "Charp Choi" spelling used specifically for Buk Sing CLF. That why I had to ask.. 
:idunno:


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## Tremble (Jan 21, 2005)

What I saw a picture of was a form using twin Phoenix eye fists.There seems to be noone in my area teaching SPM, but I'd really like to eyeball the form.


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## dmax999 (Feb 18, 2005)

I may be off my rocker on this, haven't been in Wing Chun for over 5 years, but...

I think I remember an attack called chop choi or such.  It was a punch with first row of knuckles even with back of hand and rest of fingers curled under.  Back of hand was even with fore arm.  Second set of knuckles are whats going to hit first with strike.  If this is similar to what you are thinking of, I was taught to use it as a windpipe strike, area around adam's apple.

Can't remeber the name of the move, didn't do that one too much compared to the rest of Wing Chun.


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## Infrazael (Mar 10, 2005)

clfsean said:
			
		

> Hmmm...
> 
> "Charp" is a variant of "Chaap"/"Chop"/"Tsop", etc... depending on dialect for "Stabbing"... Chop Choi = Stabbing punch. For the branch of Hung Sing CLF I practice a Chop Choi is just a straight on punch with either hand, front or back. For me a "Ping Ahn Choi" or "Level Eye Punch" is a leopard paw punch.
> 
> ...


You mention "In Buck Sing". . . . so does your branch have the Chop Choy??? I think all CLF schools have it.


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## PantherFist (May 12, 2005)

As well as studying Choy Lee Fut I have also studied a little Northern Mantis(7 Star) and a little Southern Mantis(Jook Lum/Ho Sing Pai), in this branch of Southern Mantis their version of Ginger Fist is exactly the same as the Charp Choi found in CLF.


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## Infrazael (May 16, 2005)

SPM now stabs *downwards* while sliding into a how horse/bow stance??? 

*slightly confused*

Hmmm. . . .mabye our various interpretations of the Choy Choy may be different.

The one I'm talking about are like these this: 

http://www.buksing.com/4_generations/4_gen.html


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## sifu Adams (May 17, 2005)

I practise a little SMP the move you are talking about is the palms up?  All the SPM I have seen has what is called a three step arrow.  during this move you grab and pull in.  If you were looking at a photo maybe that is what you saw I would like some more information on what the move looks like and maybe I can help.  Or get you in the right direction.


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## infenix (May 18, 2005)

I don't know what "charp choi" is in this instance, except as a straight thrust, but a straight thrust of what?

Attaching pictures of phoenix-eye (Fung an choi) and ginger fist (gurn a choi), neither of which are leopard fist. Leopard in SPM is also known as chicken-heart fist and prominently uses the middle knuckle of the longest finger in the same way as the phoenix-eye.










We have a chap sao which is not quite what sifu Adams says (that's tan sao). Chap sao is a spear-hand attack typically aimed at the bladder or hip/leg crease.

The form Saam Bo Gin is available to view at http://www.tonglong.co.uk. There's a brief registration required, then you're in. It's perfromed by the incredible sifu Paul Whitrod.

I'm sat here thinking of the relative applications of leopard and phoenix knuckle-strikes. We do a lot more phoenix-eyes in training: the first and second fingers are stressed a lot in practise (with the thumb) and the index finger most of all. The leopard fist is not as flexible as the phoenix-eye and I think more suited to short, straight blasts. In forms it only comes up as a shot to the trunk of the body whereas the phoenix-eye is everywhere and at every angle.

Rgds,
David


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## Tremble (Jun 8, 2005)

infenix said:
			
		

> I don't know what "charp choi" is in this instance, except as a straight thrust, but a straight thrust of what?


I saw it (Charp Choi) listed in a range of forms for SPM a while back, but lost the link to it.


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## PantherFist (Jun 9, 2005)

Sorry, Charp Choi is a Panther/ Leopard Fist strike in Choy Lee Fut.  

The Southern Mantis style I have practised called this a Ginger Fist, and prefered to use this variation than the one used in Chow Gar.  Also their version of the pheonix eye fist has the thumb on top of the finger and not behind it.

I guess its just 'Horses for Courses/Courses for Horses


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## Tremble (Jun 9, 2005)

The form I'm referring to, uses the Phoenix eye braced by the thumb behind the index finger, and like I said, the form was listed as 'Charp Choi'/'Chap Chui'.


I've seen it listed elsewhere as 'Drilling Punches'


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## PantherFist (Jun 10, 2005)

I beleve the form you are talking about is the third form in British Lau Gar.  It was one of my favorites when I was learning that style of kung fu(12 years).  I always thought it had a bit of a hakka flavour to it


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## Cathain (Dec 7, 2007)

Yes, Charp Choi is the 3rd form in UK Lau Gar.
The fist/punch itself is called "Fu Nan Choi" (Phoenix Eye Punch), and is used extensively in Charp Choi.


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## Mantis King (Dec 7, 2007)

Tremble,

To be exact, everyone is somewhat right they do have different names and uses. 

But the fact is that Southern Praying Mantis weather it be Jook Lum or Chu Gar, PantherFist was correct it is called Chop Choi (in American) = Leopards Paw, and is not ginger fist, ginger fist is called something else and is used in a different manner.

*Gan Jiang, Gurn a choi, Geung Ji Choy*, is ginger fist which in south mantis *IS* different then Chop Choi. And is used different then chop choi.


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