# Interesting self defence weapon...



## Satt (Nov 8, 2005)

Does anyone own this or have any comments on it???...

http://www.eliteselfdefense.com/pepper-spray-ring.htm

I am getteing ready to order this for me and my wife and have never seen it before. I'm just looking for other experience with/opinions about it. Thanks in advance!!!


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## Solidman82 (Nov 8, 2005)

Good idea, but the thing's still damn ugly.


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## Satt (Nov 8, 2005)

Solidman82 said:
			
		

> Good idea, but the thing's still damn ugly.


 
Yeah, I feel ya on that one. I was thinking the same thing and tried to look up better looking ones, but that's the only one I think is out there.


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## CrankyDragon (Nov 9, 2005)

My choice for non-martial arts self defense.






Bersa Thunder 380  ~$250
Excelent weapon, on spot accuracy time and time again, reliable, light
weight, inexpensive and just enough power to be effective.

Seriously.


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## Satt (Nov 9, 2005)

Sounds good CD. But I have been looking for something I can get without a permit and something I can take on campus. Once I am done with college I will definately be getting something like that though. :mp5:


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## FearlessFreep (Nov 9, 2005)

Does it carry enough volume to be effective?

I dunno, looks a bit gimmicky, like 'cool looking idea but would it really work?'


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## searcher (Nov 9, 2005)

I am with Freep on this one.   It seems a little small to be very effective.   Also what about a safety mechanism.   It would be a shame to gas yourself or a loved one by accident.   I think sticking to the larger canister would be the better way to go.   Also, I wonder what the laws are for carrying the ring?   Would it be the same as the canister?    Some judges have said that by carrying CS that you are looking for trouble, but that is what they would say about us martial artists.


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## Sam (Nov 9, 2005)

if you can trigger it with your thumb, who's to say you wont accidentally knock it when your fixing your glasses or something and spray it on yourself?


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## arnisador (Nov 9, 2005)

Interesting...I'd like to see one in person.


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## Satt (Nov 9, 2005)

As far as the accedentally setting it off thing...the website says it has a thumb lock as well. You have to click an unlock switch with your thunb and then push the button. As far as effectiveness...it releases (roughly) a 2 foot spray for 2 seconds and comes with refillable cartriges as well. I am definately buying one so I will test it out to see how it works in reality and I will get back to you all.


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## Icewater (Nov 12, 2005)

I wonder if I could get that puppy through airport security?


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## arnisador (Nov 12, 2005)

I bet you could!


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## MA-Caver (Nov 12, 2005)

Well here's the thing... how many people actually wear a ring on their index finger? That would be an odd thing to a sharp-eyed (airport) security officer.


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## Icewater (Nov 12, 2005)

MA-Caver said:
			
		

> a sharp-eyed (airport) security officer.


 
These my friend, don't exist.


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## MA-Caver (Nov 12, 2005)

Icewater said:
			
		

> These my friend, don't exist.


 :lol: Well... they should ...


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## arnisador (Nov 12, 2005)

Icewater said:
			
		

> These my friend, don't exist.



Heh. I'm inclined  to agree, sadly.

I must admit that I'm curious--I'd like to handle one of these rings.


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## Jonathan Randall (Nov 13, 2005)

Satt said:
			
		

> Does anyone own this or have any comments on it???...
> 
> http://www.eliteselfdefense.com/pepper-spray-ring.htm
> 
> I am getteing ready to order this for me and my wife and have never seen it before. I'm just looking for other experience with/opinions about it. Thanks in advance!!!


 
Man, you'd have to have real presence of mind to be able to use that one effectively, given its limited volume of spray. I'd think of it as a low caliber one shot derringer. If you miss, possible, if not probable, you are in worse shape than when you started. Make sure you get several refills and practice it and, IMHO, never fire it unless you have a VERY good chance of hitting the assailant. Personally, while certainly an intriguing device, I'd pass.

Thanks for the link, though. The site that sells it seems to have some interesting products.


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## arnisador (Nov 13, 2005)

Jonathan Randall said:
			
		

> I'd think of it as a low caliber one shot derringer.



A good analogy. Yet, it survived as long as it did because it found some use...I could see this doing the same. Yet, in many circumstances it'd be worthless, and in many others one would never have the chance to deploy it (at least, not effectively).

An interesting idea nonetheless.


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## Solidman82 (Nov 13, 2005)

> I wonder if I could get that puppy through airport security?


 
It probably has enough metal in it to set off the metal detector nevermind a security officer.


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## tellner (Nov 18, 2005)

Pepper spray is pretty worthless as a self defense tool. Don't bother.


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## arnisador (Nov 18, 2005)

Why do police carry it?


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## Satt (Nov 19, 2005)

Here's an update...

I got the ring in the mail about 4 days ago. It was a bit bulky, but it wasn't too bad. It is VERY easy to use. I got the silver one. You wear it on your pointer finger. With your thumb you slide down a safety and push a button. The blast lasted for 2 seconds and I am sure the tree I sprayed was crying on the inside. It sprayed about 2-3 feet. I like the ring. I think it is somewhat practical. I just wish it was a little less bulky. Overall I think it could be usefull though. Hope this info helps.


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## tellner (Nov 21, 2005)

arnisador said:
			
		

> Why do police carry it?



Mostly for use on "non-compliant non-violent suspects" to quote ASLET. When they feel that they are in danger of being seriously injured or killed they are taught to escalate to lethal force.


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## shesulsa (Nov 21, 2005)

tellner said:
			
		

> Pepper spray is pretty worthless as a self defense tool. Don't bother.


It might be more accurate to say that pepper spray doesn't work on everyone and when it doesn't, you're up a creek unless you have a good plan B.

I'd also be curious about the feasibility.  I'm not sure that particular setup would be easy to aim accurately.  I'd also like to get my hands on one and examine the spray pattern, ease of reload and run it through a metal detector.

As to wearing a ring on an index finger, I see people doing this all the time - question is, does it look like a cheap piece of jewelry?  Might be a dead giveaway.


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## Jonathan Randall (Nov 21, 2005)

shesulsa said:
			
		

> It might be more accurate to say that pepper spray doesn't work on everyone and when it doesn't, you're up a creek unless you have a good plan B.


 
So true. I think of it as a DISTRACTION that buys me a split second to either run, if possible, or launch a low sidekick (if warranted by the level of force). The scenario that I don't think a person ever wants to get into is pulling it, aiming it, but not firing immediately and using it as a threat - giving the assailant time to prepare, cover or pull a MORE effective weapon. To have any utility, IMO, it must be a surpise attack (or counter).


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## Bigshadow (Nov 21, 2005)

Jonathan Randall said:
			
		

> Man, you'd have to have real presence of mind to be able to use that one effectively, given its limited volume of spray. I'd think of it as a low caliber one shot derringer. If you miss, possible, if not probable, you are in worse shape than when you started. Make sure you get several refills and practice it and, IMHO, never fire it unless you have a VERY good chance of hitting the assailant. Personally, while certainly an intriguing device, I'd pass.


I am with Jonathan on this.  You might have to be quick on those refills   Or you could get one ring for the first two fingers of each hand.  Then you would have 4 tries!   Could get that bling look going.


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## shesulsa (Nov 21, 2005)

Bigshadow said:
			
		

> Could get that bling look going.


:lol2:


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## shesulsa (Nov 21, 2005)

I don't see anything that says it marks the recipient in any way either - that might be worth it if it will spray a UV dye or irridescence or something.  If you miss the eyes directly there might be overspray to mark the bad guy.


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## Phoenix44 (Nov 21, 2005)

> you could get one ring for the first two fingers of each hand. Then you would have 4 tries!  Could get that bling look going


 
Why don't you get 4, wear them all on one hand, and then just punch the guy!


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## tellner (Nov 21, 2005)

I used to be a moderate fan of OC. Right up until the first time I got sprayed with the special for-cops-only-not-for-sale-to-mere-civilians variety. I wasn't enraged, wasn't drugged, wasn't expecting it and didn't have my intention set. It hurt, but not as bad as cutting habaneros without gloves, much less going to the bathroom afterwards without washing hands. :vu: I couldn't see very well. But well enough to extricate myself, tell the cameraman to keep filming without me, walk about a hundred feet to the drinking fountain and start washing my eyes. 

So I started doing some research. The incredible people at Modern Warrior have done extensive research over the last 15 years on OC and found it just plain does not work on motivated, goal-oriented attackers. Other research through the Berkeley PD and others has borne that conclusion out. A few years back the FTC socked MSI Mace with a huge fine for deceptive and fraudulent advertising and forced them to print a letter of retraction stating that it doesn't work to stop violent attackers. One Alaska state trooper figured out how to make it work in bad situations. But you have to be able to completely discharge the whole cylinder into the bad guy's mouth.

Given all  that, it's criminal to recommend it as a tool to save someone's life during a violent crime which is how it's usually marketed.


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## Drac (Nov 23, 2005)

arnisador said:
			
		

> Why do police carry it?


 
The stuff we carry is a whole lot more potent than the stuff they sel to civilians..That's why alot of it can only be sold to cops..A Plan B is an excellent and necessary idea ..


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## tellner (Nov 25, 2005)

Drac said:
			
		

> The stuff we carry is a whole lot more potent than the stuff they sel to civilians..That's why alot of it can only be sold to cops..A Plan B is an excellent and necessary idea ..



No, it isn't. I've taken a look at what's available to police, corrections and on the general market. Half the stuff you guys carry is the same sort of stuff - Punch II and the like - that you can get at any good self-defense/security store. And even if it were, the research has mostly been on the special police-only stuff. It's great if Bubba doesn't want to get in the car. It's good for non-violent protestors. It's great for some things.

It shouldn't even be Plan Q for defense against a violent criminal who wants to hurt or kill you. Odds are the bad guy has been sprayed with it before if he's had a lot of runins with the law. It won't be much of a surprise.


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## arnisador (Nov 26, 2005)

OK, I'm confused....do LEOs carry higher-concentration pepper spray/mace than civilians, or no?


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## sgtmac_46 (Nov 26, 2005)

arnisador said:
			
		

> OK, I'm confused....do LEOs carry higher-concentration pepper spray/mace than civilians, or no?



No, you can purchase the same products (for the most part) in the same concentrations.  However, most civilian suppliers don't carry the same quality for some reason, probably the fact that the quality asked for by repeat law enforcement business cost more than the kind of questionable quality sold to the public on one-time sales.  Police are more demanding, and quality costs more.  

Some companies to look at when buying for self-defense that I have had experience with.

Fox Labs (My first choice in OC spray)
Zirc (An excellent company)
Sabre 
Bodyguard
Punch

There are some others out there that are good, but I haven't had first hand experience with them.

You may come across First Defense sprays.  They make a quality dispenser, but I have issues with the strength of the OC spray.  I've experienced First Defense Products first hand, and they wouldn't stop me if I had a hangover.  A buddy of mine and I used to spray it in our mouths to demonstrate it's (in)effectiveness.  I've seen FD fail to effect too many suspects for me to put my faith in it.  In their defense, First Defense has marketed a stronger product in the law enforcement market, which I have not been exposed to yet.  It may be that they have corrected the deficiencies of their past formulation, and it may be a very effect OC Spray.

Again, OC Sprays should only be part of your strategy, never put all your faith in a single tool or technique.   Never anticipate incapacitation, or even a reaction at all.    Also, OC is best applied with deception, so as to gain maximum surprise and get the most product in the attackers eyes.  In other words, don't shake the can so he can see it as a kind of ward against attack.  If you have a good quality product, it will work most of the time.  But don't become so reliant that if it doesn't work as you envision, don't be caught off guard.

Think of OC Spray as a distractor, not a fight finisher, and use it accordingly.  If it works, and they retreat or are incapacitated, great.  If it doesn't work or only partially works, go to plan B (and C, D, E and F if necessary).  OC Spray may not end the fight for you, but it can give you an advantage.  Even if the suspect is still fighting, he will likely be reduced in capacity (i.e. impaired vision, breathing, intense burning pain) use this to your advantage.


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## Makalakumu (Nov 26, 2005)

arnisador said:
			
		

> I must admit that I'm curious--I'd like to handle one of these rings.


 
Has it become _precious_ to you?  

Seriously, though, for a trained MAist, this little thing could be a great weapon.  The pepper spray may not take your opponent out, but it may weaken their ability to fight effectively.  Kind of like sand in the eyes.


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## Drac (Nov 26, 2005)

tellner said:
			
		

> No, it isn't. I've taken a look at what's available to police, corrections and on the general market. Half the stuff you guys carry is the same sort of stuff - Punch II and the like


 
I have never done any actual research on the stuff that civilians buy..So you're probably right..



			
				tellner said:
			
		

> It shouldn't even be Plan Q for defense against a violent criminal who wants to hurt or kill you


 
You are correct..That's what the baton and the hours invested in training are for..


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## shesulsa (Nov 26, 2005)

I encourage everyone who buys pepper spray to test it out.  I bought some that just hit the shelves and took it home to test it.  What a disappoinment - spray was less than four feet, very spattered and the entire canister was exhausted in seven seconds.  Would be great if I wanted to put it on my food ....

That said, I'm sure other brands than the one I purchased (or the ones hubby has purchased for me) are far better. I've seen pepper spray blast about 12 feet to effectively cover a decent size spot on a tree with good force and spread.


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## arnisador (Nov 26, 2005)

Testing it out is good advice. If nothing else, spray it against a wall, then walk parallel to the wall, through the mist that remains. Not the same as a full-on blast, but it'll give you some idea what it can do, as well as how far it sprays, how it spreads, etc.


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## shesulsa (Nov 26, 2005)

And make sure you're upwind! :ultracool


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## tellner (Nov 26, 2005)

I've got to admit, we had an excellent result with OC in one of our women's self defense classes. 

There was a willie-wagger in the library. He'd stand in the stacks, push books out so he could, err, see and be seen and pleasure himself at women studying alone.

We pointed out to the young women that OC also has a long-lasting dye. They took to hunting for the guy in packs (after promising us both ears and the tail), and he left.


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## arnisador (Nov 26, 2005)

tellner said:
			
		

> We pointed out to the young women that OC also has a long-lasting dye. They took to hunting for the guy in packs (after promising us both ears and the tail), and he left.



That's great! But to be clear, not all sprays include a dye...and some are dye only! Make sure you know what you're buying.

Good against dogs too!


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## tellner (Nov 27, 2005)

arnisador said:
			
		

> That's great! But to be clear, not all sprays include a dye...and some are dye only! Make sure you know what you're buying.



Certainly. But if you want our real secret reason for saying so it was to make the environment too hot for him. If there were groups of women aggressively looking for the serial wanker he would unass himself from the library and go somewhere else. Which he did.


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