# distance learning, anyone?



## martialart-expert (Oct 27, 2006)

Hello every1 !
That's not that I goona join it right away, but Iwannano if some1 provides a distant learning of his/her respective MA. Please make the benefits of your distant learning clear enough so even guy like me can get it. U can also state some cons of you learning if want to. I'll post the thread to other forums of martialtalk.com. Thanks anyway.:jediduel:


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## bushidomartialarts (Oct 27, 2006)

i think distance learning is better than not training at all, but far inferior to getting into an actual dojo.  there's no replacement for live correction, the fun of training with others, and the community of a good school.

that said, if you're out in the bush someplace you can definitely check out www.gojushorei.com or larry tatum's site (is it www.lt.com?).  they both have solid, complete curriculums.

or you could go with chief ronan and get your belt and certificate in the mail right along with the tapes.....


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## martialart-expert (Oct 27, 2006)

Thank you Bushidomartialarts. You rule.


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## Drac (Oct 27, 2006)

bushidomartialarts said:


> or you could go with chief ronan and get your belt and certificate in the mail right along with the tapes.....


 
There is also a Ninjutsu Master selling a complete system in the pages of Black Belt magazine Richard Van Donk by name, and you get a your black belt AND a uniform patch..


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## Xue Sheng (Oct 27, 2006)

Heck for 2000 I can give you a black belt if you want and a certificate 

10 belt display rack = $35.00

10 belts at 13.00  a piece = 130.00

a Uniform for $100.00

3 DVDs at 25.00 a piece in any style you desire = $75.00

a certificate for $250.00

And $1410.00 just cause

BINGO youre a black belt

But if your interested in CMA it will cost you more, because I need to go to China to buy the VCDs and that would slap on an additional $7000.

Of course you could have saved money and gone to AWMA and about your own black belt, DVDs and uniform for about $188.00 plus shipping and handling and it would mean about as much but I wouldnt get anything out of it that way. 

Welcome to the wonderful world of Distance learning a Martial Art.

Distance learning an MA is a supplement to training at best, nothing else.


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## Drac (Oct 27, 2006)

Log onto E-Bay..Last year there was a gentleman from England selling a system that he guaranteed would make you an elite level black belt in the privacy of your own home in UNDER one week,,,


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## Brian R. VanCise (Oct 27, 2006)

Drac said:


> Log onto E-Bay..Last year there was a gentleman from England selling a system that he guaranteed would make you an elite level black belt in the privacy of your own home in UNDER one week,,,


 
Boy it is getting deep with what some of these people are doing now a days.


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## Drac (Oct 27, 2006)

Brian R. VanCise said:


> Boy it is getting deep with what some of these people are doing now a days.


 
I wish I would have had the forsight to save a copy of this system and post it here..You all would have laughed..


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## Brian R. VanCise (Oct 27, 2006)

I am amazed with everyone offering distance learning, quick fast ways to blackbelt, train in your own home programs, be a blackbelt in a week, etc.  There must be a huge market for this type of *gimmicky* stuff.  What is really sad is that the only way to get good at martial science is to train and train the right way under the watchful eye of an instructor who can give you feedback along the way.


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## dubljay (Oct 27, 2006)

Drac said:


> Log onto E-Bay..Last year there was a gentleman from England selling a system that he guaranteed would make you an elite level black belt in the privacy of your own home in UNDER one week,,,




:barf:

Good Greif!  


Ok here's my take on distance learning.

If its all you got.... then its all you got.  However if you have other (viable) options then I reccomend against it.  A video can't watch your technique and correct you.  If there is some sort of method for an instructor to critique you, chances are that the bad habits are already instilled and 2000 billion times harder to correct.  


Distance training from home makes it harder to 'stick to it'  Just how many buy a tredmill/home gym equip.  and never use it.  But if they get a gym mebership they are more likely to go... that monthly payment keeps em going.

_**edit**  Forgot to add that seperating your place of training from home sometimes help focus your thoughts on training.  I know that for myself, its hard to work on katas or techniques when I can just hop on the internet and cruise MT all day_

Training from home usually limits your training partners as well.  It's kinda hard to spar your cat.  At a school you will encounter a broader range of training partners.  (granted not all will be to your liking but that's part of the training in my opinion).  The more people you work with the more you apply the techniques on a broader group of people ensures you understand how to make the technique work.  Sometimes there's no better lesson than a stuborn uke that fights back.


Just my two cents.

Oh and I tried the distance thing... Seeing my instructor as often as possible after I moved... I developed bad habits and didn't train nearly as much as I should have.  So this is from a little bit of personal experience.


-Josh


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## Drac (Oct 27, 2006)

Brian R. VanCise said:


> What is really sad is that the only way to get good at martial science is to train and train the right way under the watchful eye of an instructor who can give you feedback along the way.


 
Truer word were never written..Want to be amazed?? Go to ebay and after the main page downloads type Hapkido or Karate in the What Are Searching For blank..You will be amazed..


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## Brian R. VanCise (Oct 27, 2006)

Drac said:


> Truer word were never written..Want to be amazed?? Go to ebay and after the main page downloads type Hapkido or Karate in the What Are Searching For blank..You will be amazed..


 
Yes there is alot of junk being peddled over there.


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## arnisador (Oct 27, 2006)

Xue Sheng said:


> Heck for 2000 I can give you a black belt if you want and a certificate



He was asking about training, not buying rank. That's different.


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## Xue Sheng (Oct 28, 2006)

arnisador said:


> He was asking about training, not buying rank. That's different.


 
Yes he was, in this post. But he has 3 or 4 of these asking similar questions, some that deal with certification.


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## Lisa (Oct 28, 2006)

*Moderator Note:

Thread moved to beginner's corner in hopes of generating more responses to the thread.

Lisa Deneka
MartialTalk Super Moderator*


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## dubljay (Oct 28, 2006)

I know I've already given my 2 cents, but here's a bit more spare change thats been rattling around in that void I call a brain.


If you do opt for a distance learning program I highly reccomend getting some sort of training partner.  Con a friend into it, some one to train with.  There are a few reasons for this.

First:  I already mentioned that a resisting body will aid in understanding of technique.

Second:  Having a training partner usually involves some sort of mutual commitment.  This commitment will help you get up and train on a day you may not entirely feel like it (which IMO is the most important time to train)

Third:  While I can't stress enough that MA is best studied under a qualified instructor (suspect phrase I know), a training partner is a live body that can give instantanious feed back on your technique.  While your partner wont have the knowledge and skill of an instructor, he/she may spot something and help you correct it.  

Some other considerations:

Attend seminars when and where you can.  Even if it's of a different style.  (given the general distain many MA'ers have for distance programs it may be wise to down play that fact at a seminar)   At a seminar you have the luxury of working with a wide range of people, and this will help with the grasping of techniques.



If you can not find a partner to train with invest in some sort of recording device.  Watching a recoding of yourself is a good way to spot something that is wrong.  (I imagine some if not most disance programs require recordings as a means of grading)  Even still it will be of bennifit.  If it's digital it's simple to up load to the net and get feed back (but you better have some pretty thick skin as people can be pretty uhh candid)



Again just my opinion


I know its been said 1000000 billion times but I cant stress it enough, _nothing_ can replace a good instructor.



-Josh


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## Perpetual White Belt (Oct 28, 2006)

dubljay said:


> Training from home usually limits your training partners as well. It's kinda hard to spar your cat.


 
You haven't met my cat then....

Anyway, I consider most of my training to be distance learning, but I actually travel to the closest place that the instructor is going to be and learn with them, then suppliment my training with their videos and such.  I also had a 10 year martial arts backgroud before I started training this way.  I don't recommend it for a beginner, or for any certification purposes.


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## still learning (Oct 29, 2006)

Hello, Just my thoughts on this?   Long distance learning may work for some people. (martial arts training).

For most of us we will need someone who is experience to coach us.  It is like learning boxing, can we do it from long distance learning? and without partners? most likely NOT.

Getting a GED or degree from college..yea it works..but Doing something physcial..like martial arts?  Your learning and training will be 10 tens better if done in a martial art classes.  Try learn welding from long distance?  Hard huH?

Many times people want a particular art...that is not close to home...BUT any martial arts will teach you something you can USE.  Better to have a teacher/Sensi/coach.

Later on you may move or travel to a new place and maybe able to learning the art you always wanted to try.....in the mean time....learn something else maybe a blessing.........Aloha


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## martialart-expert (Oct 30, 2006)

First of all thank you  very much bushidomartialarts, dubljay, arnisador, Perpetual White Belt and still learning  . Thank you for taking me seriously. Your information was most relevant for my question

Thank you all of :barf: you who wanted to sell me black belts:shock: .  But I allready own a green belt and a black paint, could just mix them together if wanted. And then I know a local martial art store where the black belt would be much cheaper then your alternatives. I'm sorry but I'd rather buy there belt instead of yours. But who knows. Better luck next time.You'll find another buyers.

Now why did I ask this question? And did I ask the right question?
No I didn't ask the correct question.
About me:
Fought but most beaten on the streets when I was 13-18 years old more than the majority of civil people an MAsts would experience through their whole life. (Her I'm talking bout STREETS and CIVIL people not COPS, MARINES and UFC-fighters/Boxers)
After little stuff like a broken  nose (had a surgery on that afterwards), broken arms etc I wanted some REAL LIFE/SD-related stuff
REAL LIFE (not by distance learning) green belt in WTF Taekwondo(great sport, bad SD - my opinion)
REAL LIFE grean triangle (3.SG) in WingTsun(bad sport, great SD, great damage to your brain cause of blowback of your own strikes, not the opponent's in this case). Why would I right this
 BOOOORING :barf:  selfbiography wich doesn't interest anyone?

 Read on to hear more boring stuff!!!%-} 

So let's say I found one original and rather unknown noneastasian martial art that absolutely rocks in SD terms (it was born for that and was proven in battlefields). It looks like aikido/jujutsu/hapkido/chin na/tantojutsu/bojutsu/dian xue shu/(kenjutsu? not sure)/and even "empty force like" stuff+can also be used as defence against fire arms/allmost everything else. And again NO, the style is not an east asean one, not a modern MMA or other combatives interpretation, not discussed in  (I believe) in topic for itself but mentioned many times here and there. I'm not even sure that some is training it in it's original form outside Europe.
The arts history would be the same as Hwarangdo's or if the bujutsu/oldNreal ninjutsu became Karate historiacally: I mean from war specialist's style trough willage folk style to modern style.

 Relevance?
I found this art for myself. I will not mention the name of this art cause I don't want to miscredit it or people training it. I do not mention it not because I wan't to advertise for it or to make it exclusive, cause many people a tempted by the "forbidden apple". The (not so) funny thing is that maybe this style will never be practiced or really known outside the it's area today. The guys who teach it are some kind of "idealists". the Last real MA idealists wich I know are Jigaro K. and Erle M. and some others who are unfortunatelly unknown by the others. Almost every other MA "modern" founders did because of making money, they were asked to,  or of other "nonalthruistic" way.
I contacted one of the trainer (from whom I only learned from a distance)  cause I liked their school ideology and that's why wanted to help the school to become a more popular one. The school can only offer a direct (physical) training or a distance learning. He asked me to study how to expand this MA knowledge by providing distance learning stuff. There is no possibility to for seminars/schools worldwide right know. The school need a least 1 year/good connections/solid financial base for it. this was/is the way for all new MA.

So the question I should ask is:

HOW CAN YOU MAKE A GOOD DISTANCE LEARNING, SO THE MAJORITY WOULD LIKE TO LEARN THIS WAY UNTIL THIS MA HAS ENOUGH PHISICAL SCHOOLS TO OFFER PHYS.TRAINING/SEMINARS IN OTHER COUNTRIES (not talking about worldwide)? WHAT DO NEED TO INCLUDE/AVOID TO GET A GOOD LEARNING? You still need to physically contact the trainers in order to be certified(there're no belts in this MA, sorry!). If you know other approaches to provide a nonphysical education you can tell about it.
Thank you very much.


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## martialart-expert (Oct 30, 2006)

.


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## Xue Sheng (Oct 30, 2006)

Im sorry, I do not mean to sound rude, condescending or unsupportive here but this is beginning to sound like another "just discovered secret and most deadly art known to man" home study program.

And as to what you could do to better market it to me, to be honest there is nothing you could do, I would not be interested in a MA home study program.

Sorry


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## IWishToLearn (Oct 30, 2006)

I'm a video student with the IKCA, in addition to holding a 3rd Dan in another system. Admittedly, I didn't start from absolute beginner when I started distance learning through the IKCA - because I had previous knowledge. I've been with the IKCA since 2004, and I'm taking my time with each belt rank and supplementing with private lessons from Grand Master Vic Le Roux when I can. I also try to pick the brain of Dr. Chapel, Master Armando Deloa, Mr. Jerry Brooksher, and a couple of other individuals as often as possible. I work with live body partners, and my students. I strike a dummy to build power while working on accuracy. I spar as frequently as my back allows.

My area doesn't offer any decent kenpo, and the closest facility where I'd consider studying is more than an hour away. So I called and spoke with several of the organizations that offered distance learning and I chose to go with the IKCA for distance learning because of the testing process - they evaluate each test and send back between a 1/2 hour to a 1.5 hour private lesson with each test. I've been very happy with the results thus far. 2/5 don't pass their orange belt test with the IKCA, and it gets harder as you go up the scale.

My take on video learning is you will get out of it what you put in to it. No substitute for live one on one - but if you're like me and wanted to study kenpo - and no decent kenpo within what I consider reasonable distance - I did my research and chose my teachers.

I hope you have as positive an experience. I can't thank the IKCA Founders enough for what they've made available to me.


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## martialart-expert (Oct 30, 2006)

Hi Xue Sheng.
I don't wanna advertize for this MA and you don't need to appologize for anything. I only said said that it rocks from the SD point of view. I came to this conclusion from my own street experience+Leung Ting's WinTsun(one of many VingTsun derivatives). I believe (not claim) that the master this MA would beat any of those WT sifus(wich I personally have an absolute respect for) out on the street or in their own WT fighter-club(also in terms of pure fistfighting/nonwrestling). Why cause of the testimonials for the related MA of WT fighter who claimed to be train under Leung Ting himselv and some other WTists. I consider myself a WTist too. But I didn't claim that this MA was "the deadliest art of 'em all" or a cure from all deseases. I train this distantly because of 2 reasons: I wanna train particularily THIS art, and THIS art is not even in the country I live.This art can somehow be compared to Aiki Jujutsu in it's original form. Why do I think I could learn the style from the distance. that's because you don need to memorize at what angle you need to Baldoug Dolyo Chagi (round kick in TKD), it's more pricip-oriented like Akido and WT. I do not wanna proove to you anything. I believe there're lots of misspelling in my text, sorry. See ya.:ultracool


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## IWishToLearn (Oct 30, 2006)

Good luck with your training.


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## martialart-expert (Oct 30, 2006)

Thanks a lot Steve.
Can you tell a little bit more about what exactly does this Kenpo distance learning so good that you still have it?
You get a test eval. 0.5-1.5 hours after you send it to them. How are you tested, do you send a video, do you answer the questions, or...? Can you describe it. Is there any standard/scale/norm for an eval. procedure so you know on wich things you need to  accent your attention? What other features are there. I do not think the MA, I'm talking about, will interfere/compete with Kenpo, cause "so called  in this case my" MA is neither Kenpo or Karate nor JiuJitsu. Can you please give me a link to this Kenpo school so I can see their distant learning schedule. I would like to show it to the master of "my" MA. I do although have 2 selfish thoughts%-} bout my MA! HE HE HE!!! I wanna learn it really good, and then I wanna become an instructor in it if I'll visit the school for real!
Thanks man.:ultracool


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## Xue Sheng (Oct 30, 2006)

martialart-expert said:


> Hi Xue Sheng.
> I don't wanna advertize for this MA and you don't need to appologize for anything. I only said said that it rocks from the SD point of view. I came to this conclusion from my own street experience+Leung Ting's WinTsun(one of many VingTsun derivatives). I believe (not claim) that the master this MA would beat any of those WT sifus(wich I personally have an absolute respect for) out on the street or in their own WT fighter-club(also in terms of pure fistfighting/nonwrestling). Why cause of the testimonials for the related MA of WT fighter who claimed to be train under Leung Ting himselv and some other WTists. I consider myself a WTist too. But I didn't claim that this MA was "the deadliest art of 'em all" or a cure from all deseases. I train this distantly because of 2 reasons: I wanna train particularily THIS art, and THIS art is not even in the country I live.This art can somehow be compared to Aiki Jujutsu in it's original form. Why do I think I could learn the style from the distance. that's because you don need to memorize at what angle you need to Baldoug Dolyo Chagi (round kick in TKD), it's more pricip-oriented like Akido and WT. I do not wanna proove to you anything. I believe there're lots of misspelling in my text, sorry. See ya.:ultracool


 
Forgive my cynicism, and I do not mean to offend, but I have just run into things that sound similar to this way too much. So it is probably best I bow out of your post. 

Enjoy your training. :asian:


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## martialart-expert (Oct 31, 2006)

Thanks Xue Sheng.
I do fully understand you because I've also met such kind of people you're talking about myself.


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## IWishToLearn (Oct 31, 2006)

http://www.karateconnection.com

All the info is available on the site. 

Enjoy


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## martialart-expert (Nov 1, 2006)

Thanks Steve. You rule big time!:ultracool


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## airdawg (Nov 3, 2006)

You have to be extreemly careful with any distance learning. 

The closest I've come to distance learning was monthly seminars and lessons, because the instructor lived about 500 miles away from me. It worked out great, but I had physical contact with several other students that were attending the seminars and the monthly seminar that was usualy 4 to 8 hours long and sometimes two days of 16 hours. Besides that, I had already studied kenpo for several years and held the rank of 1st degree black belt before I began my "distance learning" 

I think it would take at least twice as much time, research, practice, dedication, effort and you would make double the mistakes through distance learning than if you were learning from a formal, or informal instructor. Just be careful not to be taken advantage of. 

One last thing. What is the point of having a "black belt", or certification if some teenage punk steals you lunch money anyway?


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## martialart-expert (Nov 4, 2006)

Thanks airdawg.


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## airdawg (Nov 4, 2006)

Pour nada! What specific style are interested in training?


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## martialart-expert (Nov 9, 2006)

It's a jujutsu/akido/tantojutsu/escrimalike style. It is a complete selfdefence style (versus noncomplete ones TKD/WT, I trained those, they don't have grappling, allround antigrappling, ground fighting, weapon defence, defence against multiple opponents).  But the style is noneastasean, nonMMA. This style is an old one. when you're thinking of most common styles wich are nonMMA and noneastasean you have greek roman wrestling, glima, swiss wrestling(believed to be one of the glima variants) , anglo-american catch wrestling(catch as catch can), old english boxing(with grappling),stick fighting, savate, capoera, french fencing, modern boxing, freestyle wrestling (based on an old roman one). None of those styles are related to my style. Although  one of the styles above mentioned has the common history and origin. There're some historical noneastasean styles wich I didn't mention with a purpose.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Nov 9, 2006)

So what is the style that you are studying?


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## martialart-expert (Nov 12, 2006)

It's a western medieval MA. I can't tell the name for 2 reasons. The fist one is that many guys saw my hiding of the name as yet another commercial. That's why I cannot post the name of the MA here. The other reason is that I don't want to discredit the style I train in any way. At least not until they promote themselves outside their own country or maybe kick me out of their school. I just want to help their school because I like their philosophy(not only in MA). That's why I asked bout dist. learning. I'm not an employee of their school. I'm just a MA student.  And I don't get money from them. Soon (this year I believe) they promote themselves. I'm helping them somehow to promote themselves. So sure I want you to know not only the name of their MA but also everything else related to the style. It won't be necessary for me to tell any names. There is nothing extraordinary about this MA. Some other MA are much greater from SD point of view. So forgive me and don't be angry with me no matter how selfish my behaviour might seem in this situation.
Thank you for your interest.


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## midnightfox00 (May 2, 2007)

Sooooo...I fail to understand where you are trying to go with this "maritialexpert"..


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