# Should a Student Practice on His Own, or Not?



## Gwai Lo Dan (Jan 2, 2014)

Since the forum isn't too busy these days, I'll throw another topic up for discussion.

Should a student practice on his own, or not? Does belt-level matter? Should the student only practice what the instructor/master says to practice?

I had contemplated joining a club once, and I mentioned that I looked at TKD differently than perhaps most students.  For me, TKD in the school was part of my TKD, but I also practice and try to improve at home by myself.  

I was told that the school doesn't like students to practice by themselves, due to getting into bad habits that may be hard to break.  The school's opinion was that students are ok to stretch at home, but not practice.

Do you agree?


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## Dirty Dog (Jan 2, 2014)

Couldn't disagree more.
Although we tell students not to practice things they haven't been taught (in other words, don't try to self-teach from YouTube or books - even if it's one of the books I've written) we absolutely expect them to practice the things they've been taught.


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## Drose427 (Jan 2, 2014)

This is the first I've heard of a school telling students to NOT be practicing outside of class..I disagree with that 100%. To me,  that seems like something a mcdojo would say to keep people paying longer... I dont see how someone could truly improve without practicing at home.


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## RTKDCMB (Jan 2, 2014)

Gwai Lo Dan said:


> or not?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I 100% do not agree at all one bit. That would be like going to University, going to the lectures and not studying at home.


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## Touch Of Death (Jan 2, 2014)

While I want to agree with The Dirty Dog, listen to your teachers. If I had spent half the time I spent trying to do TKD style kicking on my kenpo kicking I would have ranked long before I did. They can tell when you are getting info from other sources. Be it movies or your friends. Try doing it the way they say.


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## Touch Of Death (Jan 2, 2014)

RTKDCMB said:


> I 100% do not agree at all one bit. That would be like going to University, going to the lectures and not studying at home.


Read it again


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## Gorilla (Jan 3, 2014)

I have heard this before from controlling Masters who think that they are the final arbiters of good technique!!! Their students are usually limited!  Create your own technique that works for you!  In the sport world it will set you apart!


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## Touch Of Death (Jan 3, 2014)

gorilla said:


> i have heard this before from controlling masters who think that they are the final arbiters of good technique!!! Their students are usually limited!  Create your own technique that works for you!  In the sport world it will set you apart!


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## dancingalone (Jan 3, 2014)

Gwai Lo Dan said:


> I was told that the school doesn't like students to practice by themselves, due to getting into bad habits that may be hard to break.  The school's opinion was that students are ok to stretch at home, but not practice.
> 
> Do you agree?



No, I don't agree.  At some point you have to internalize the lessons you learned in class, and realistically that won't take place in the meager 2-3 hours a week most people spend at the dojo.  You have to do a lot more than that to master the material and that means plenty of organizing extra practice time with partners as well as lots of solo time.  When you have a student population that you only see 2-3 hours a week, out of necessity most of the class is spent on instruction, REVIEW, and correction - not practice.


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## Thousand Kicks (Jan 3, 2014)

Like everyone else, I think the only way to truly improve technique and understanding of your art is to spend time practicing by yourself. However, there are good ways to practice and bad ways to practice. My advice to people is to spend a little time before you work out to figure out what you want to do. 

Individual training is the best time to work on details. You could take 30 to 45 minutes and do Palgwe 1-8. But what have you really done besides review the patterns. I think you get much more out of spending 30-45 minutes on one of the Palgwe forms. Break it down into sections. Oberseve each stance. Focus on striking at specific targets. Focus on your breathing. This type of practice is generally not done in a class setting.


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## Gwai Lo Dan (Jan 3, 2014)

dancingalone said:


> At some point you have to internalize the lessons you learned in class, and realistically that won't take place in the meager 2-3 hours a week most people spend at the dojo.



Most of the dojangs I've seen have different pricing for 2 times per week vs 3 times, vs 5 times.  I suspect part of the issue is schools don't want people to pay for 2 times per week, then practice 2-3 times at home with other people from the dojang. 

My personal thought is that practising exclusively at the dojang is beneficial only to the naturally athletic.  The other 90% would be better off pracitising a challenging (to them) kick 100 times at home on a bag or pad, focussing on getting more balanced and coordinated.


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## dancingalone (Jan 3, 2014)

Gwai Lo Dan said:


> Most of the dojangs I've seen have different pricing for 2 times per week vs 3 times, vs 5 times.  I suspect part of the issue is schools don't want people to pay for 2 times per week, then practice 2-3 times at home with other people from the dojang.



I think that is plausible, but perhaps an unfounded fear if marketed properly?  The dojang is usually equipped with mirrors, striking pads, and other equipment.  It's much preferable to practice there if possible rather than going to someone's crowded garage or even a park.  The smart school owner will have figured out a way to leverage this if he has the facilities and staff to be open for extended hours.



Gwai Lo Dan said:


> My personal thought is that practising exclusively at the dojang is beneficial only to the naturally athletic.  The other 90% would be better off pracitising a challenging (to them) kick 100 times at home on a bag or pad, focussing on getting more balanced and coordinated.



My Goju-ryu students are expected to put in the personal time doing Sanchin and hojo undo (body strengthening exercises) to build their capacity for high level study.  They simply won't progress in rank if they don't.  I've never taught Goju-ryu commercially however, since I don't know that I can sell it in my market.

Basically, I agree.


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## Gwai Lo Dan (Jan 3, 2014)

dancingalone said:


> My Goju-ryu students are expected to put in the personal time doing Sanchin and hojo undo (body strengthening exercises) to build their capacity for high level study.



I'm always surprised that schools market TKD as a way to get in shape.  To me, the cardio, flexibility, and appropriate body weight are done at home.  I go to the dojang for the TKD, not conditioning - I don't need to pay someone to get me to do pushups for instance.


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## K-man (Jan 3, 2014)

I'm with the others here. There just isn't enough time in class to cover all the material comprehensively in the restricted time available. At home you can practise your kata or forms, you can work on your stances, work on your basics but most important is to work on your fitness. My guys often say "we should do more to get fit". My response is get fit in your own time. We don't have enough time for learning as it is.
:asian:


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## Tames D (Jan 3, 2014)

Gwai Lo Dan said:


> Since the forum isn't too busy these days, I'll throw another topic up for discussion.
> 
> Should a student practice on his own, or not? Does belt-level matter? Should the student only practice what the instructor/master says to practice?
> 
> ...



It's ok to break the rules.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Jan 3, 2014)

Gwai Lo Dan said:


> I was told that the school doesn't like students to practice by themselves, due to getting into bad habits that may be hard to break.  The school's opinion was that students are ok to stretch at home, but not practice.
> 
> Do you agree?


I don't agree. One day your teacher will be gone and you will have nobody's "order" to follow. You are the master, your school/style is your slave.

When I took my Karate class, in the class, my instructor asked us to do push up, sit up, running around the room, ... I asked him, "I can do all these at home." He said, "Most people don't".

I believe in you 

- learn in school.
- practice at home.

Others may believe in you

- practice in school.
- do nothing at home.

I strongly disagree "not training at home" no matter what style that we may talk about here.


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## skribs (Jan 3, 2014)

> I 100% do not agree at all one bit. That would be like going to University, going to the lectures and not studying at home.


 
RTKDCMB, that&#8217;s how I passed most of my classes 

If I did not practice at home, I would not be nearly as good as I am, and I would not retain forms and one-step drills nearly as well as I do having practiced at home.  Even something as simple as reviewing new patterns as soon as I get home helps me keep them all in mind.  My master encourages us to practice at home to become better.

While on the one hand I do see the problem with practicing the wrong technique with no one to correct you, I think it is entirely egotistical for a school to ask you not to practice at home.


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## ks - learning to fly (Jan 3, 2014)

practice at home - yes

train at home - no


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## wimwag (Jan 3, 2014)

RTKDCMB said:


> I 100% do not agree at all one bit. That would be like going to University, going to the lectures and not studying at home.



Agreed.  My Sensei and senior students all tell me to practice at home, but to stop if I am unsure of anything.


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## Gwai Lo Dan (Jan 4, 2014)

ks - learning to fly said:


> practice at home - yes
> 
> train at home - no


What is the difference for you between training and practice?


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## Dirty Dog (Jan 4, 2014)

Gwai Lo Dan said:


> What is the difference for you between training and practice?



I'm going to say that you practice things you've been taught and you train to learn new material. At least in this context. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk.


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## ks - learning to fly (Jan 4, 2014)

Dirty Dog said:


> I'm going to say that you practice things you've been taught and you train to learn new material. At least in this context.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk.



Exactly.


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## Gwai Lo Dan (Jan 4, 2014)

Thanks. I was thinking that maybe you meant that "practice" is stances and forms, whereas "training" is more kicking. Got it now.


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## sopraisso (Jan 6, 2014)

I'm with the others: practicing at home is not only important but vital to one who really wants to have a good performance in martial art. The in-class time should better be used with actual teaching of new content, correcting, partner drills, etc. This said, I've indeed had bad experiences with taekwondo students that go to class essentially to workout, get cardio conditioning, lose weight - and after all that was what I gave them mostly.  It wasn't my own school, though, and I'm aware that was main feature that dojang. My personal students, in the other hand, are very aware of the fact that they come to me to really learn things and they have to workout and practice on their own later, and no-one is unsatisfied with it (but I don't teach those students to make a profit).

Enviado de meu GT-I9300 usando Tapatalk


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## Kung Fu Wang (Jan 6, 2014)

*Re: Should a Student Practice on His Own, or Not?*

What's the definition of a "student"?

You may be a student when you are 20 years old. One day your teacher has passed away and you are no longer young. Do you still consider yourself as a "student"?

I have seen so many people who moved to a new place, couldn't find a proper school, and quit. Can you just train whatever that your have leaned from your previous school, use that information and train for the rest of your life all by yourself? How much do you want to learn any way?


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## Gorilla (Jan 6, 2014)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> *Re: Should a Student Practice on His Own, or Not?*
> 
> What's the definition of a "student"?
> 
> ...



Kung Fu Wang is the best name on Martial Talk!!!


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## Instructor (Jan 7, 2014)

As much as I respect my teacher (and I think the world of him) I don't think he could have stopped me from practicing on my own even if he had wanted to.  There was a time when that was pretty much the only thing I wanted to do!!  Fortunately for me my teacher rewarded hard work even if it was done in my backyard.


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## TKDTony2179 (Jan 8, 2014)

ks - learning to fly said:


> practice at home - yes
> 
> train at home - no


 Huh? Practicing would be training.


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## Dirty Dog (Jan 8, 2014)

TKDTony2179 said:


> Huh? Practicing would be training.



Not really. You practice things you've already been taught. You train to learn new material.

Reading the thread (where this context was already made clear) before replying is often helpful.


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## TKDTony2179 (Jan 8, 2014)

Gwai Lo Dan said:


> Since the forum isn't too busy these days, I'll throw another topic up for discussion.
> 
> Should a student practice on his own, or not? Does belt-level matter? Should the student only practice what the instructor/master says to practice?
> 
> ...



You have to practice in order to learn and to ask questions.  I do agree not to add what you see from other sources.  Because you don't want to get confused on different techniques.  

I in courage my students to practice. You have to learn what you are doing. Age don't matter.


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## Touch Of Death (Jan 8, 2014)

Practice doesn't make perfect. Practice make permanent. Make sure you want what you got down permanently.


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## Tames D (Jan 8, 2014)

Dirty Dog said:


> Not really. You practice things you've already been taught. You train to learn new material.
> 
> Reading the thread (where this context was already made clear) before replying is often helpful.



So I'm not weight training if I already know the lifts?


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## Dirty Dog (Jan 8, 2014)

Tames D said:


> So I'm not weight training if I already know the lifts?



I've always taken for granted that you understood the importance if context. If I've been mistaken, and this is a serious question, just let me know and I will attempt to provide an explanation that you can understand. 


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## Tames D (Jan 8, 2014)

A fighter is preparing for an upcoming fight at his trainiing camp. He's only learning new stuff? Is that what a training camp is for? I've never heard of the term practice camp for an upcoming fight. Excuse my ignorance.


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## Dirty Dog (Jan 9, 2014)

I just absolutely refuse to believe that you're not smart enough to understand the context used, Tames D, in which case I'm left to conclude that this is just you trying to stir the pot for some reason. 

Sorry. Not going to play. The context is clear. If that's not good enough for you, then you're just going to have to deal with it yourself.


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## Tames D (Jan 9, 2014)

Nothing wrong with stirring the pot DD. You're pretty good at it yourself 
Now I just gotta decide if you are violating TOS with your insults towards me. Probably not.


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## Dirty Dog (Jan 9, 2014)

Tames D said:


> Nothing wrong with stirring the pot DD. You're pretty good at it yourself
> Now I just gotta decide if you are violating TOS with your insults towards me. Probably not.



If I have insulted you, I freely and publically apologize, and I assure you no insults were intended.


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## WaterGal (Jan 9, 2014)

I think it's good for students to practice at home, if they can.  Especially if they can't come to class more than 2x a week.  

I wonder if the discouragement from practicing was really about bad habits?  Maybe they'd had a student who got hurt practicing at home and tried to sue them?


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## Touch Of Death (Jan 9, 2014)

WaterGal said:


> I think it's good for students to practice at home, if they can.  Especially if they can't come to class more than 2x a week.
> 
> I wonder if the discouragement from practicing was really about bad habits?  Maybe they'd had a student who got hurt practicing at home and tried to sue them?


Don't say that too loud; it is almost a great idea.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Jan 9, 2014)

WaterGal said:


> I think it's good for students to practice at home, ...


This thread just remind me when I was a catholic, I was not allowed to read bible at home. Only catholic priest can interpret the true meaning of bible.


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## dancingalone (Jan 9, 2014)

No offense to anyone, but talk about paralysis by analysis!  "Don't practice at home unless you know the technique already otherwise you'll engrain bad habits." Studying and learning martial arts is a lifelong process.  We don't get everything perfect the first time through and correction of technique from our teachers can and should come continuously as we improve.  A white belt and a black belt can both receive instruction on the same basic material, though perhaps with differing aspects.

Personally, I love it when I see new students practice their basics.  I don't fear that they will ruin themselves by practicing without me present.  Quite the contrary, I think they gain a lot from practice outside of class and never fear I'll be there to make adjustments along the way.


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## Gwai Lo Dan (Jan 9, 2014)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> This thread just remind me when I was a catholic, I was not allowed to read bible at home. Only catholic priest can interpret the true meaning of bible.


I've never seen that in the Catholic church.  At my confirmation, my Catholic school gave bibles to everyone being confirmed.


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## Gwai Lo Dan (Jan 9, 2014)

WaterGal said:


> Maybe they'd had a student who got hurt practicing at home and tried to sue them?


Personally I have found practising at home to be safer - no banging of feet for instance when 2 people kick at the same time.


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## Tames D (Jan 9, 2014)

dancingalone said:


> No offense to anyone, but talk about paralysis by analysis!  "Don't practice at home unless you know the technique already otherwise you'll engrain bad habits." Studying and learning martial arts is a lifelong process.  We don't get everything perfect the first time through and correction of technique from our teachers can and should come continuously as we improve.  A white belt and a black belt can both receive instruction on the same basic material, though perhaps with differing aspects.
> 
> Personally, I love it when I see new students practice their basics.  I don't fear that they will ruin themselves by practicing without me present.  Quite the contrary, I think they gain a lot from practice outside of class and never fear I'll be there to make adjustments along the way.



Finally someone said something real. People don't need constant supervision to improve their martial arts. Theres a time when that learners permit expires and you have to drive on your own. Make mistakes and learn from them. If correction is needed, deal with it. Being afraid to make a move without your Sensei's watchful eye is rediculous.


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## Gorilla (Jan 10, 2014)

Gwai Lo Dan said:


> I've never seen that in the Catholic church.  At my confirmation, my Catholic school gave bibles to everyone being confirmed.


 It is an old mentality ended after 2nd Vatican Counsel


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## Gorilla (Jan 10, 2014)

Tames D said:


> Finally someone said something real. People don't need constant supervision to improve their martial arts. Theres a time when that learners permit expires and you have to drive on your own. Make mistakes and learn from them. If correction is needed, deal with it. Being afraid to make a move without your Sensei's watchful eye is rediculous.



And it will hold back your development!


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## Kframe (Jan 12, 2014)

Can I chime in??  In Budo taijutsu that I am a part of now, most of everything kata wise is done with a partner. I have only 5 short and I mean really short solo kata (san shin no kata not the same as the karate kata) and the rest(that I haven't learned yet..) are all paired.  

So what about students of arts that do not use a lot of solo forms and drills?  Even at high ranks there will only a literal handful of things you can do solo.  Il rattle off my list. Kamae(posture/stances) the 5 San shin kata, the zenpo tsuki drill, the 2 aruki tsuki drills, basic hanbo(and I assume sword and other weapon)  manipulation, the kicks and the ukemi(rolling).  

I would imagine Hapkido would be in the same boat as I am.  Now granted I can and do get a lot of practice just doing those things up there, but the real meat and taters of my art and in the paired work.  

So how do we students of arts like this structure our home learning when only so much of it can be done solo. TBH hapkido will have a easier time, seeing as they have a lot more strikes and I guess are a more striking oriented art.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Jan 12, 2014)

Kframe said:


> So how do we students of arts like this structure our home learning when only so much of it can be done solo.


Solo drill = partner drill without partner

You can only use your solo drill to "polish" your skill after you have developed it. You can't use it to "develop" your skill. MA cannot be developed "solo".

Partner drill:






Solo drill:


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## dancingalone (Jan 12, 2014)

Kframe said:


> I would imagine Hapkido would be in the same boat as I am.  Now granted I can and do get a lot of practice just doing those things up there, but the real meat and taters of my art and in the paired work.



I'd say the meat and potatoes of karate and even TKD are in the partner work also.  We're all in the same boat.  It's hard to get better at the finer details of fighting without someone to 'fight', even if the nature of the training is cooperative most of the time,  I adopted the much criticized KKW style a while back, and hogu drills with a partner comprise a huge chunk of our time practicing.

You can only get up to a certain point without someone to exchange with.  That's true of any fighting art.


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## Balrog (Jan 13, 2014)

Gwai Lo Dan said:


> The school's opinion was that students are ok to stretch at home, but not practice.
> 
> Do you agree?


Disagree.  Every student gets a DVD of the material for their current rank.  We expect them to train at home in order to further reinforce what they learn in the school.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Jan 13, 2014)

_*The school's opinion was that students are ok to stretch at home, but not practice. *_*Do you agree?
*
I taught a 50 students Taiji class one time. My Taiji form contain 108 moves. The class only meet once a week and 2 hours each time. I intend to finish those 108 Taiji moves in 3 months. So 3 x 4 x 2 = 24 hours and 108/24 = 4 to 5 moves per class.

Every class I taught 5 moves and when we meet again, I would teach another 5 moves. One day I found out that after I have taught them 40 moves, most of students could not remember the first 20 moves. I asked them whether they had practiced at home or not. They all told me that they didn't. I told them if they don't practice at home, there is no way that they can finish learning their 108 moves Taiji form in 3 months.

One should go to school to learn and come home to train.


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## wimwag (Jan 13, 2014)

Balrog said:


> Disagree.  Every student gets a DVD of the material for their current rank.  We expect them to train at home in order to further reinforce what they learn in the school.



I too own many Kung Fu flicks.

Sent using Tapatalk 2.


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## Kframe (Jan 13, 2014)

wimwag said:


> I too own many Kung Fu flicks.
> 
> Sent using Tapatalk 2.



Wow that was a thinly veiled insult if I ever seen one.  What relevance does your smart aleck comment bear on this discussion?   Honestly I find it easier to practice things at home with a dvd to follow..   Im sure many students of Balrogs Feel the same. So if they are getting good usage out of it, why come and make a foolish remark like that?

At least try to add something to the discussion.

On topic, this highlights the fact that home dvd's are helpful for practice at home when you have a teacher to train you


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## wimwag (Jan 14, 2014)

Kframe said:


> Wow that was a thinly veiled insult if I ever seen one.  What relevance does your smart aleck comment bear on this discussion?   Honestly I find it easier to practice things at home with a dvd to follow..   Im sure many students of Balrogs Feel the same. So if they are getting good usage out of it, why come and make a foolish remark like that?
> 
> At least try to add something to the discussion.
> 
> On topic, this highlights the fact that home dvd's are helpful for practice at home when you have a teacher to train you



Watch the DVD buy the book and become a mail order black belt.  It's the American Kyukido Federation way.

Just one question, if you're doing something wrong...say...not pivoting your foot when doing a roundhouse...and you tear the cartilage in your knee...did the DVD benefit you?  Remember the TaeBo craze?  What about when you strike with the ball of your foot and not the heel and you fail to neutralize your attacker?  If your instructor is not there, he cannot help you.

Soldier of Fortune magazine has plenty of ads you'd be interested in if you choose to use DVDs in place of an instructor.


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## Dirty Dog (Jan 14, 2014)

wimwag said:


> Watch the DVD buy the book and become a mail order black belt.  It's the American Kyukido Federation way.
> 
> Just one question, if you're doing something wrong...say...not pivoting your foot when doing a roundhouse...and you tear the cartilage in your knee...did the DVD benefit you?  Remember the TaeBo craze?  What about when you strike with the ball of your foot and not the heel and you fail to neutralize your attacker?  If your instructor is not there, he cannot help you.
> 
> Soldier of Fortune magazine has plenty of ads you'd be interested in if you choose to use DVDs in place of an instructor.



In place of? Who said anything remotely like that?
As a supplement to a good instructor, yes. If you actually read what's been posted, that is clearly how the DVD was used. 



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## Steve (Jan 14, 2014)

I own several excellent DVD instructionals that have helped me a lot.  


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## Kframe (Jan 14, 2014)

wimwag said:


> Watch the DVD buy the book and become a mail order black belt.  It's the American Kyukido Federation way.
> 
> Just one question, if you're doing something wrong...say...not pivoting your foot when doing a roundhouse...and you tear the cartilage in your knee...did the DVD benefit you?  Remember the TaeBo craze?  What about when you strike with the ball of your foot and not the heel and you fail to neutralize your attacker?  If your instructor is not there, he cannot help you.
> 
> Soldier of Fortune magazine has plenty of ads you'd be interested in if you choose to use DVDs in place of an instructor.



You missed the part were Balrog sent home dvds for his students to practice with. Guess what, that means they are getting instruction out side of the home from Balrog. Now I have no idea if they are Offical ATA videos, or Balrogs personally made videos, but either way, it will be a welcome addition to regular class room training. No one ever said that it replaced training.


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## Master Dan (Jan 14, 2014)

I think this is one of the most miss understood parts of training in Western culture US today is the difference between class training and your obligation to personal practice to improve. The original commitment was I will teach you one thing and you must accomplish that one thing well enough that I will reward you by teaching you another period?? I will never forget my father master talking about training in Japan and being put in front of a mirror and being told today you punch 8 hours nothing else. We have lost that in the paper mills. Class is for conditioning and teaching. Student now expect the master GM or instructor to do unending practice with them which is their responsibility they come back making the same mistakes for days weeks month over and over it drives me nuts. So what do you do break it stop them they learn nothing new and they get a chair a bag what ever and they will stand there and do 50 100 500 ever day until the technique is acceptable or bad habit is broke period!!  

Good students practice at home or the gym to progress and students with the right motivation and attitude do mutual or group learning such as friends or siblings bond together to get better call community learning. I have had students walk in and show new forms I had not taught them done very well by students who did know and have a desire to share. 4,000 students I will not give a single black belt to anyone who is not committed to teaching and serving screw em go some place else I could care less.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Jan 14, 2014)

Master Dan said:


> I have had students walk in and show new forms I had not taught them done very well by students who did know and have a desire to share.


In high school, when my teacher taught advance students the advance form, I was a beginner and just by watching and trained at home, I had learned the complete form. That year during the high school event, my teacher asked me to perform that form. I then knew that my stealing skill was not bad at all.


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## Danny T (Jan 15, 2014)

I would say the most important aspects of any martial training is in partner or multiple partner drills, training, and sparring. You will not learn proper timing and range without a partner but along with proper equipment like a punching bag or pad one can work on movement, structure, speed, power, tempering of the hands arms, legs and much more.
As an instructor I want my students, I encourage my students strongly to practice at home. Why would I? Do I want them to have better footwork, better balance, stronger legs, arms, bodies? We teach, instruct, and coach. There is a time for each and there is the time for the student to practice on their own. They will make mistakes, OK. A good teacher will allow them to make mistakes and then coach the corrections. The student will make the changes when coached properly. Having done something wrong and then coached to it being proper allows the student to know and understand what was wrong and why. Getting hit, kicked, taken down, thrown... all have their places in the advancement of the student's understanding and development. Practicing on one's own is a great place to get a lot of self-discovery about one's self and abilities and is a great tool to be used in conjunction with group instruction, one on one instruction, and one on one training. Practice as much and as often as you can.


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## wimwag (Jan 15, 2014)

Danny T said:


> I would say the most important aspects of any martial training is in partner or multiple partner drills, training, and sparring. You will not learn proper timing and range without a partner but along with proper equipment like a punching bag or pad one can work on movement, structure, speed, power, tempering of the hands arms, legs and much more.
> As an instructor I want my students, I encourage my students strongly to practice at home. Why would I? Do I want them to have better footwork, better balance, stronger legs, arms, bodies? We teach, instruct, and coach. There is a time for each and there is the time for the student to practice on their own. They will make mistakes, OK. A good teacher will allow them to make mistakes and then coach the corrections. The student will make the changes when coached properly. Having done something wrong and then coached to it being proper allows the student to know and understand what was wrong and why. Getting hit, kicked, taken down, thrown... all have their places in the advancement of the student's understanding and development. Practicing on one's own is a great place to get a lot of self-discovery about one's self and abilities and is a great tool to be used in conjunction with group instruction, one on one instruction, and one on one training. Practice as much and as often as you can.



I agree with what you are saying 100% but can see the issues arising from giving a student a DVD of material for that belt level when he reaches it.  You would be in essence, giving him time to skip ahead of what you're teaching him and make mistakes that could cause an injury.  Especially if the student is more interested in belt level than perfecting what he has been taught.

Sensei told me that the current belief is that it takes about 4 years of constant training for a student to perfect the Kihon katas.  Those are the 5 fundamental katas for our system.  Now when I started Pinan Shodan, Sensei was out for a surgery and after three weeks, I finally got my form corrected.  It was the most subtle correction, but made a world of difference.  I noticed immediately that my error was causing a tightening in my back.  I relate this experience because a student could suffer a financial crisis and be unable to make it to the dojo and then begin relying wholly on that DVD.  After a while, it becomes muscle memory and may be uncorrectable.  Without an instructor being there, how can you be absolutely sure he isn't getting sloppy in his form and about to tear a meniscus, blow out a knee etc?


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## wimwag (Jan 19, 2014)

Kframe said:


> You missed the part were Balrog sent home dvds for his students to practice with. Guess what, that means they are getting instruction out side of the home from Balrog. Now I have no idea if they are Offical ATA videos, or Balrogs personally made videos, but either way, it will be a welcome addition to regular class room training. No one ever said that it replaced training.



No, they are getting a DVD of Balrog.  Responsible instruction requires one to be present because supervision is vital.

At this rate, we could all pay tuition for one month and then watch UFC reruns for our instruction.


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## Steve (Jan 19, 2014)

wimwag said:


> No, they are getting a DVD of Balrog.  Responsible instruction requires one to be present because supervision is vital.
> 
> At this rate, we could all pay tuition for one month and then watch UFC reruns for our instruction.



I don't quite understand how you jump from DVDs as supplemental resources to watching UFC.  

I've been to numerous seminars, but the only one where I was able to incorporate the information was the one that was recorded.  The DVD has proven to be invaluable as a resource.

Similarly, the Roy dean DVDs are terrific, even though I've never met him.  

Ultimately, where it seems you and I diverge is that you out the responsibility for learning on the instructor.  I put it on the student.  It's up to the student to listen and learn, and to ensure he gets to class and listens to his coach. 

I don't think anyone would suggest that learning from a DVD is ideal, or even adequate.  But you take it to an extreme that is easily proven wrong.  

If you can't see value in supplemental DVD tutorials, don't use them.  But it's easily demonstrated that they have a lot of value if used appropriately.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## wimwag (Jan 19, 2014)

Steve said:


> I don't quite understand how you jump from DVDs as supplemental resources to watching UFC.
> 
> I've been to numerous seminars, but the only one where I was able to incorporate the information was the one that was recorded.  The DVD has proven to be invaluable as a resource.
> 
> ...



Wrong.  I put ethics and responsibility on the instructor.


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## Steve (Jan 19, 2014)

You're funny. I said you're putting the responsibility on the instructor.  You respond by saying I'm wrong and then agreeing with me.  Ethics AND responsibility is still responsibility.  

My advice to you is to stop being so adversarial, slow down and read people's posts.  It will help your credibility.


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## wimwag (Jan 19, 2014)

Steve said:


> You're funny. I said you're putting the responsibility on the instructor.  You respond by saying I'm wrong and then agreeing with me.  Ethics AND responsibility is still responsibility.
> 
> My advice to you is to stop being so adversarial, slow down and read people's posts.  It will help your credibility.



It's like you purposely try to deflect what you're really saying.  You blame the student 100%, where I blame the instructor since he uses those tactics in the first place.  The DVDs are irresponsible.


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## Dirty Dog (Jan 19, 2014)

wimwag said:


> It's like you purposely try to deflect what you're really saying. You blame the student 100%, where I blame the instructor since he uses those tactics in the first place. The DVDs are irresponsible.



Odd. Students at our school have said, and their progress would seem to confirm, that the books I've written, including the video portions, have been very helpful.

And all this time I've just been irresponsible and didn't know it.


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## Steve (Jan 20, 2014)

wimwag said:


> It's like you purposely try to deflect what you're really saying.  You blame the student 100%, where I blame the instructor since he uses those tactics in the first place.  The DVDs are irresponsible.



I can only react to what you write.  And you write some funny stuff.  

And, surely you understand that your position on DVDs is your opinion.  Right?  Clearly, there are a lot of people who disagree and have seen a lot of value in instructional videos.

Also, fwiw, blame and responsibility are not the same.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## wimwag (Jan 20, 2014)

Steve said:


> I can only react to what you write.  And you write some funny stuff.
> 
> And, surely you understand that your position on DVDs is your opinion.  Right?  Clearly, there are a lot of people who disagree and have seen a lot of value in instructional videos.
> 
> ...



That would make your position opinion as well.


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## Steve (Jan 20, 2014)

wimwag said:


> That would make your position opinion as well.


Obviously.  So, since we've established that we're discussing opinions, it's a great time for you to actually support your opinion.  This is where facts come in handy.


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## wimwag (Jan 20, 2014)

Steve said:


> Obviously.  So, since we've established that we're discussing opinions, it's a great time for you to actually support your opinion.  This is where facts come in handy.



Support yours with something other than saying what somebody else said somebody said.


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## Steve (Jan 20, 2014)

wimwag said:


> Support yours with something other than saying what somebody else said somebody said.


I figured you were all bluster.  Guys like you always are.  

Well, okay.  I guess if you're unwilling to do more than toss around adolescent style zingers, I'll try to add a little substance.  

Should we start with the use of video at every level of education now, from primary education all the way up through advanced degrees?  Universities and colleges use video training to educate and reinforce lessons in just about every discipline, from liberal arts to math to sciences.  Most professors make video recordings available to their students to help the students understand technical instruction and it works.  Video recordings make it possible for students to review lectures, learn complex technical procedures, and also extend their learning through research.

The same is true in other areas of adult learning, such as corporate training.  Airline pilots are a great example of how online training and video are used to enhance and supplement other established training mediums, such as simulators, classroom instruction and hands on, practical training.    A friend of mine designs training for a major airline.  They use all kinds of mediums for training, including video where appropriate.  

But that's not apples to apples.  The leap would be too much for you, I'm guessing.  How about sports?  Video instruction is particularly useful for the novice athletes, teaching not just technique, but also drills designed to engage the young athletes and reinforce solid technique.  Video is used at every level, from little league all the way up to the elite level athletes.  Professional athletes watch film of themselves and others in their positions.  

But, that's sports... not the same thing.  This is martial arts.  Well, how about all of the excellent DVD instructionals that have already been mentioned?  Instructors and students have advocated for their use.  This thread has had students and instructors from multiple styles endorsing the practical usefulness of DVD recordings in their training.  My mom has Tai Chi videos that help her.  I have several DVD instructionals that I would consider indispensable to my training.  TKD instructors, karate instructors.  And you've countered with exactly nothing more than a strongly worded declaration.  

Whether you want to use DVDs or not is completely up to you.  As we've already established, you are entitled to your opinion.  But your opinion seems backed up by nothing more than thinly veiled sarcasm and ego stroking zingers.  In contrast, others in this thread have supported their opinion with examples of how DVDs are used, students and instructors who endorse their use, and success stories of their use, even as they are careful to provide caveats that video use is not generally a suitable SUBSTITUTION for face to face, hands on training.  

Frankly, you've been around for a little while now, and speaking just for myself, you haven't done a whole lot to establish yourself as credible on any subject other than anti-cop propaganda.  You stir the pot a lot and seem to enjoy trying to poke people and get a rise.  At some point, I'm hoping you bring something more to the table.  And, ultimately, your opinion is only as credible as your reputation.


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## wimwag (Jan 20, 2014)

Steve said:


> I figured you were all bluster.  Guys like you always are.
> 
> Well, okay.  I guess if you're unwilling to do more than toss around adolescent style zingers, I'll try to add a little substance.
> 
> ...



Did not read the rant.   Too much text, too little interest.


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## wimwag (Jan 20, 2014)

Also, there is nothing proving I am anti cop.  Your opinion that I am is based off the emotions (rage, impatience, hate etc) you feel when I disagree with someone employed in law enforcement.  You personally feel that your badge makes you better than me and go on long winded rants when I disagree with your holiness.  We may have different opinions, but that does not make me a cop hater.  You have bad habits and lying is one of them.  Please be truthful next time and acknowledge that my opinion differs from yours instead of lying and calling me names, like "anti-cop" and "basher.". When I am having coffee with our towns police chief tomorrow morning at McDonald's I will be sure to show him your post and have a laugh at your expense.  Toodles!


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## wimwag (Jan 20, 2014)

Steve said:


> Frankly, you've been around for a little while now, and speaking just for myself, you haven't done a whole lot to establish yourself as credible on any subject other than anti-cop propaganda.  You stir the pot a lot and seem to enjoy trying to poke people and get a rise.  At some point, I'm hoping you bring something more to the table.  And, ultimately, your opinion is only as credible as your reputation.


So what you're saying is that I should shut up and let you have your way because you have a higher post count than me?  That I couldn't possibly have a point or know anything, even though I've already stated my reasons for disagreeing with the DVD method, because I haven't been here as long as you?  It's not my fault your gang mentality gets the best of you and you ignore the content of my posts and ask me a question I've already answered.  When you make a claim that a controversial tactic, which DVD training is, is beneficial and you are the one going against the norm, you have a responsibility to back that claim up.  Not me.  I have already stated the risks associated with giving the student material in advance and allowing them to watch it without an instructor present to monitor their form, which can cause injuries.

Just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean that I am stirring the pot.  You have an over inflated ego and assume that anyone who sticks to their core beliefs must be a troll or pot stirrer because it conflicts with your belief that you are always correct.  I'm not going to roll over just because you refuse to acknowledge that I am entitled to my own opinion.

You're one of a billion "experts" on the internet.  Your opinion means as little to me as I'm sure mine does to you.  How about we just agree to disagree?  Or do you have to get the last word in?


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## Steve (Jan 20, 2014)

wimwag said:


> Did not read the rant.   Too much text, too little interest.


LOL...  actual on-topic posts are a rant in your kooky world.  Okay.  I'll keep any response to you at the twitter level.  120 characters or less.  Here goes:  

Translation:  You had no rational response and fell back on childish sarcasm. #writingishard



wimwag said:


> Also, there is nothing proving I am anti cop.  Your opinion that I am is based off the emotions (rage, impatience, hate etc) you feel when I disagree with someone employed in law enforcement.  You personally feel that your badge makes you better than me and go on long winded rants when I disagree with your holiness.  We may have different opinions, but that does not make me a cop hater.  You have bad habits and lying is one of them.  Please be truthful next time and acknowledge that my opinion differs from yours instead of lying and calling me names, like "anti-cop" and "basher.". When I am having coffee with our towns police chief tomorrow morning at McDonald's I will be sure to show him your post and have a laugh at your expense.  Toodles!


Wait.  I thought you didn't read my post....


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## Dirty Dog (Jan 20, 2014)

wimwag said:


> Support yours with something other than saying what somebody else said somebody said.





Steve said:


> I figured you were all bluster.  Guys like you always are.
> 
> Well, okay.  I guess if you're unwilling to do more than toss around adolescent style zingers, I'll try to add a little substance.
> 
> ...





wimwag said:


> Did not read the rant.   Too much text, too little interest.



So you demand support, Steve provides it, and you don't read it. Troll much?


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## wimwag (Jan 20, 2014)

Steve said:


> LOL...  actual on-topic posts are a rant in your kooky world.  Okay.  I'll keep any response to you at the twitter level.  120 characters or less.  Here goes:
> 
> Translation:  You had no rational response and fell back on childish sarcasm. #writingishard
> 
> Wait.  I thought you didn't read my post....



I seem to recall asking if you were going to be a big boy and agree to disagree or if you were going to try to get the last word in.


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## Tames D (Jan 20, 2014)

wimwag said:


> Also, there is nothing proving I am anti cop.  Your opinion that I am is based off the emotions (rage, impatience, hate etc) you feel when I disagree with someone employed in law enforcement.  You personally feel that your badge makes you better than me and go on long winded rants when I disagree with your holiness.  We may have different opinions, but that does not make me a cop hater.  You have bad habits and lying is one of them.  Please be truthful next time and acknowledge that my opinion differs from yours instead of lying and calling me names, like "anti-cop" and "basher.". *When I am having coffee with our towns police chief tomorrow morning at McDonald's I will be sure to show him your post and have a laugh at your expense. * Toodles!



With all due respect, I don't believe you are having coffee with a Chief of Police at Mickey D's, or any cop for that matter. Have someone take a picture of you two, post it here and I will give you a sincere apology.


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## wimwag (Jan 20, 2014)

Tames D said:


> With all due respect, I don't believe you are having coffee with a Chief of Police at Mickey D's, or any cop for that matter. Have someone take a picture of you two, post it here and I will give you a sincere apology.



Yes because I must be anti cop simply because one accuses me of it...get lost


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## Tames D (Jan 20, 2014)

wimwag said:


> Yes because I must be anti cop simply because one accuses me of it...get lost



Post a picture, or it didn't happen.


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## Dirty Dog (Jan 21, 2014)

wimwag said:


> Yes because I must be anti cop simply because one accuses me of it...get lost



I think the implication was more that you lack credibility than anything else. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk.


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## jks9199 (Jan 21, 2014)

ATTENTION ALL USERS:

Please keep the conversation polite and respectful.

Jks9199
Asst. Administrator

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk


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## WaterGal (Feb 1, 2014)

This is a question for Balrog or anyone else that uses a supplemental curriculum DVD for Taekwondo: What material is on your DVD? 

 I ask because there are some very good professional videos of the Taegeuk forms available on Youtube, and some pretty decent kicking tutorials too.  I made a DVD for our Hapkido hoshinsul (self-defense) curriculum, since it involvse a lot of specific detail and is not standardized the way KKW TKD is.  But I don't feel like I could make a TKD DVD worth buying, considering the free resources available online. I feel like I'd be ripping off our students.  Is there something I'm missing in terms of what could be on the DVD that would be helpful to the students?


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## Dirty Dog (Feb 1, 2014)

WaterGal said:


> This is a question for Balrog or anyone else that uses a supplemental curriculum DVD for Taekwondo: What material is on your DVD?
> 
> I ask because there are some very good professional videos of the Taegeuk forms available on Youtube, and some pretty decent kicking tutorials too.  I made a DVD for our Hapkido hoshinsul (self-defense) curriculum, since it involvse a lot of specific detail and is not standardized the way KKW TKD is.  But I don't feel like I could make a TKD DVD worth buying, considering the free resources available online. I feel like I'd be ripping off our students.  Is there something I'm missing in terms of what could be on the DVD that would be helpful to the students?



What you're missing is that the Tae Kwon Do world does not start or stop with the Kukkiwon. The KKW may be the largest single org (being backed and controlled by the South Korean govt is a factor...) but KKW schools are certainly not a majority of tkd schools overall. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk.


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## RTKDCMB (Feb 2, 2014)

Tames D said:


> Post a picture, or it didn't happen.



If a tree falls in the forest...


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## Dirty Dog (Feb 2, 2014)

RTKDCMB said:


> If a tree falls in the forest...



Does it matter if a bear is pooping in the woods at the same time?


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## RTKDCMB (Feb 3, 2014)

Dirty Dog said:


> Does it matter if a bear is pooping in the woods at the same time?



Only the bear would give a crap about it.


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## Metal (Feb 4, 2014)

Dirty Dog said:


> What you're missing is that the Tae Kwon Do world does not start or stop with the Kukkiwon. The KKW may be the largest single org (being backed and controlled by the South Korean govt is a factor...) but KKW schools are certainly not a majority of tkd schools overall.




What makes you think so?
Do you have any numbers?

In the US and also in countries like Germany where ITF TKD and so called 'traditional' Taekwondo plus all of their descendants are a huge percentage of the overall Taekwondo practitioners this may be the case, but there's lots of countries where TKD was introduced after 1973 and where they haven't even heard about General Choi and the Chang Hon forms. ;-) 


To get back to the topic: I think a student will benefit from practising on his own once he know what he's doing. Plus it also depends on how often you can attend class. When I was a kid we only had TKD lessons once per week, later twice per week on two consecutive days. That meant that getting further in rank took forever plus you had to do something besides those two days in a week in order to get stronger and become more flexible.

That's also what people should concentrate on first when they start practising on their own. Work on stuff like strength, balance and flexibility. Plus of course those students should be aware of how they make progress in those fields without hurting themselves in the long run.

If you have the possibility to train three times or more per week then students should take the chance to rest and recover on theother days.

Talking about videos, I wish more instructors (when it comes to WTF/Kukkiwon TKD) would point out to their students that there's a Kukkiwon Poomsae DVD that they could check out in order to see how it's done correctly. Eventhough it's from 2006 and not 100% up to date for competition on a world championship level it's definitely up to date for amateur sports. Whenever I'm at seminars, when I'm training at other schools or especially when I click through videos on YouTube I see weird versions of Poomsae. Some have weird rhythm/speed, some have weird and unnecessary movements. Some do movements and stances of the Chang Hon system while performing Poomsae patterns (especially when checking out Palgwe videos). That's btw also the way I learned Poomsae from my instructor who had just switched from ITF to Kukkiwon/WTF. We did the new patterns, but kept the old stances and techniques.

Handing out or pointing out the right material to your students could help getting closer to a worldwide standard of Poomsae that Kukkiwon wants to establish.


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## Dirty Dog (Feb 4, 2014)

Metal said:


> What makes you think so?



Well, for one thing, the rather large number of us HERE (where we have members from all over the world) who are not KKW.



Metal said:


> Do you have any numbers?



No, and you're not going to find any either, since it's not the sort of thing anybody really keep stats on. 
However, it's easy enough to do spot checks...
Colorado Springs is the home of the US Olympic Training Center. Given that fact, it's reasonable to suppose that KKW-affiliated schools might well have an unusually high presence in the area. A quick check with google does show a lot of TKD schools in the area. I did a quick scan over the sites linked, checking their home page and whatever page they had talking about the instructors. Basically, I assumed that any school that didn't specifically list an affiliation was a KKW school (an unwarranted assumption, as some of them are almost certainly independent schools). Based on that assumption, the KKW schools are just about half.



Metal said:


> In the US and also in countries like Germany where ITF TKD and so called 'traditional' Taekwondo plus all of their descendants are a huge percentage of the overall Taekwondo practitioners this may be the case, but there's lots of countries where TKD was introduced after 1973 and where they haven't even heard about General Choi and the Chang Hon forms. ;-)



Do you think that the KKW-affiliated schools in those countries outnumber the vast numbers of ITF, ATA, ATF, GTF, Rhee TKD, various Kwan based schools (Moo Duk Kwan, etc), and unaffiliated schools?



Metal said:


> To get back to the topic: I think a student will benefit from practising on his own once he know what he's doing. Plus it also depends on how often you can attend class. When I was a kid we only had TKD lessons once per week, later twice per week on two consecutive days. That meant that getting further in rank took forever plus you had to do something besides those two days in a week in order to get stronger and become more flexible.



Agree completely. We offer classes three days a week, but we expect students to practice the things they've learned at home. Some do, some don't, and it's really very easy to tell who falls in which category.


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## donald1 (Feb 4, 2014)

Gwai Lo Dan said:


> Since the forum isn't too busy these days, I'll throw another topic up for discussion.
> 
> Should a student practice on his own, or not? Does belt-level matter? Should the student only practice what the instructor/master says to practice?
> 
> Do you agree?



yes an instructor can tell you what your doing wrong but your instructor will get mad if he is constantly repeating him self 
pull your arm back more! tight fists! step out more! examples like those. eventually you learn these things but you dont learn them as good or fast as you could if you don't do them often ,so doing them at home would help there. it also helps you get the feel of the form your doing to so you feel more comfortable when you do it and it looks more natural. so i do agree it should also be done at home to but make sure you know that you are doing it correctly.

best of luck


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## Metal (Feb 5, 2014)

Dirty Dog said:


> No, and you're not going to find any either, since it's not the sort of thing anybody really keep stats on.
> However, it's easy enough to do spot checks...
> Colorado Springs is the home of the US Olympic Training Center. Given that fact, it's reasonable to suppose that KKW-affiliated schools might well have an unusually high presence in the area. A quick check with google does show a lot of TKD schools in the area. I did a quick scan over the sites linked, checking their home page and whatever page they had talking about the instructors. Basically, I assumed that any school that didn't specifically list an affiliation was a KKW school (an unwarranted assumption, as some of them are almost certainly independent schools). Based on that assumption, the KKW schools are just about half.
> 
> ...




There are some numbers out there, like the numbers of registered Kukkiwon dojangs worldwide on the Kukkiwon Membership System website:

http://kms.kukkiwon.or.kr/usr/main.do

The DTU (German Taekwondo Union) lists all their affiliated schools and clubs on their webiste, which are more than 900 right now. So while the Kukkiwon only lists 1098 Kukkiwon dojangs in Germany, the DTU (German Taekwondo Union) is listed as one of those dojangs. So in fact you could say there's approx. 2000 Kukkiwon schools/dojangs in Germany. 

Since Taekwondo started in Germany back in the 60s, just like in the US - it was already going strong before WTF and Kukkiwon sent out their instructors. For example there's a lot of unaffiliated schools/clubs or smaller associations like Kwon Jae Hwa Taekwondo (from which I learned that Master Kwon retired from running his own Association in Germany when I wanted to check their website).

As you say, it's hard to find numbes, but I was wondering if there are any numbers concerning the US.


In the majority of countries where TKD was introduced after 1975 I'd say that WTF/Kukkiwon TKD is dominant. Especially all the countries which joined recently. 

I'd say the US and Germany are exceptions. Still I'd say that the majority of TKD clubs/and schools in Germany are teaching Kukkiwon TKD or at least it's 50% Kukkiwon/WTF and 50% ITF/traditional and so on. Maybe one day when I'm bored I'll start doing more research on that. ^^


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## Dirty Dog (Feb 5, 2014)

Metal said:


> There are some numbers out there, like the numbers of registered Kukkiwon dojangs worldwide on the Kukkiwon Membership System website:



They're not valid numbers, since the KKW assumes that if you offer KKW certification, that is ALL you offer. Not necessarily true. We offer KKW certification, but most of our students choose Moo Duk Kwan certification. Nor is our core curriculum KKW.


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## Gwai Lo Dan (Feb 5, 2014)

donald1 said:


> yes an instructor can tell you what your doing wrong but your instructor will get mad if he is constantly repeating him self
> pull your arm back more! tight fists! step out more! examples like those.....
> 
> best of luck


Thanks.  I've gotten some noise complaints from the tenant in the apartment below, so I've curtailed my in apartment BOB kicking!  Instead, I have gone to the gym more often, where there are mirrors.  It's interesting to see myself in the mirror do a kick with my "good" side, then see arms flailing away when I do the same kick with my "bad" side!!

My landlord wants to sell the condo apartment soon, so I will be focused on moving in the next month or two.  Then I will join one of the 3 tkd clubs around my home.  One doesn't like students to practice at home, one has poor mats, and the third has IMO a poor business aspect (e.g., the website and door says they open at noon, but no one was there at 1 pm and no one returned my call when I left a message at 3 pm).  I was previously at the 3rd for one month and enjoyed it, but left after they said month to month would not be acceptable, and a year contract was needed, which didn't work for me as I was looking for a job and wasn't exactly sure where I would end up.

I plan on joining the third, opting for the twice per week program as I will be travelling quite a bit in my new job. However, tkd is now on the backburner as I focus on first finding another apartment, then moving.


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## Master Dan (Feb 6, 2014)

Not sure this is off track but we use video taping a lot on a periodic basis so that students can identify problems and correct them. I have found that many students when you tell them even show them what they are doing wrong unless they are a very dedicated student that totally believes everything you say and attempt to do just that most tend to not believe you or cannot vision it? So by video taping and using high definition large screen they can see it and correct the problem. This method is also good for training assistant instructors to watch and comment and point out what they see or don't see. One thing that is nice about digital is that you can slow action down to 30 frames per second and catch really nice shots of breaking or sparing. One thing I find frustrating is the enormous time and storage you need to edit video now. If any of you have a camera and particular software you prefer I would like to hear that


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## Dirty Dog (Feb 6, 2014)

Master Dan said:


> Not sure this is off track but we use video taping a lot on a periodic basis so that students can identify problems and correct them. I have found that many students when you tell them even show them what they are doing wrong unless they are a very dedicated student that totally believes everything you say and attempt to do just that most tend to not believe you or cannot vision it? So by video taping and using high definition large screen they can see it and correct the problem. This method is also good for training assistant instructors to watch and comment and point out what they see or don't see. One thing that is nice about digital is that you can slow action down to 30 frames per second and catch really nice shots of breaking or sparing. One thing I find frustrating is the enormous time and storage you need to edit video now. If any of you have a camera and particular software you prefer I would like to hear that



I get a lot of use out of the Coaches Eye app on my iPhone/iPad. As they say, a picture is worth a thousand words. And a video (especially when you can frame-by-frame and markup on it...) is worth ten thousand.


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## Gwai Lo Dan (Feb 7, 2014)

Dirty Dog said:


> I get a lot of use out of the Coaches Eye app on my iPhone/iPad. As they say, a picture is worth a thousand words. And a video (especially when you can frame-by-frame and markup on it...) is worth ten thousand.


The side-by-side feature looks perfect for tkd where you may have a better leg.


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## Master F.Q (May 2, 2014)

Practice when ever possible , be it at home or anywhere.


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## wingchun100 (May 2, 2014)

Solo practice is essential. My new attitude toward my wing chun is: forms are "homework," class time is for learning how to apply the techniques to another human being so I can develop my reflexes. Unfortunately it isn't my school, so it's not my choice. LOL However, if Sifu had the same mentality that I do, then we would do forms in class only under a handful of situations:

1) The student is too new to do chi sao, so they can work on forms in class.
2) The student was doing the form at home for a while and had a question, so they brought it up in class for Sifu to address.
3) Sifu hasn't seen you do your form in a while and wants to see how it's coming along.
4) The student might not have the equipment at home to do one of the forms they know. For example, wing chun has a wooden dummy, pole and butterfly swords form. If you don't have these at home, you can do them in class.
5) Every now and then at the start of class, Sifu leads every student through a form. This is actually AWESOME because it creates a sense of togetherness between the students. (At least, it does in MY mind.)


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## TKD_luver (May 22, 2014)

A good dojo will have you practice all of the time. The more you practice, the better you'll get. It's just fact. At my dojo they give you a video to take home so you don't practice the wrong stuff. It might even be okay for them to put a video on. It's NEVER okay to tell a student NOT to practice. It's just fact that that makes it a McDojo. At my dojo, people who practice are rewarded and they can tell if you've practiced or not at my dojo. I know.

That's even worse than a regular McDojo. A regular McDojo should at least make you buy a DVD to show you how to practice your forms. But no, they have to be even worse and tell you to NOT practice.


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