# Grip question - one handed vs two handed



## Makalakumu (Jul 5, 2006)

Have any of you experimented or trained in a system that teaches students to swing a stick with two hands?  All of the FMA that I have done is all one handed.  How do you think the two handed grip compares to the one handed?  Pros and cons?


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## HKphooey (Jul 5, 2006)

I am nowhere near advanced yet, but the first thing that comes to mind is you have one free hand for blocking, checking and countering. Second, gripping a stick with two hands would also limit the amount of snap you get from the strike. 

Curious...What style did you train in that had two-handed strikes?  (thanks)


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## Phadrus00 (Jul 5, 2006)

upnorthkyosa said:
			
		

> Have any of you experimented or trained in a system that teaches students to swing a stick with two hands? All of the FMA that I have done is all one handed. How do you think the two handed grip compares to the one handed? Pros and cons?


 
UNK,

My experience has been that when dealing with a short stick (30" or shorter") the FMA training is almost exclusively one handed primarily for speed (the light weapon has little concussive value and you must augment it with speed to generate the deisred power) but also, as HKPhooey pointed out, to free up your second hand for Tapi-Tapi (checking, inserting, countering) as well as for use with an additional weapon such as a blade or second stick.  Having two hands on a shorter weapon leaves them BOTH vulnerable to being attacked and disabled in a single strike from your opponent.  Some exceptions do exist however such as when you are transitioning the stick from one hand to the other whcioh may require you having both hands on it at some point however these maneuvers are never done as an attack but rather in close to the body where they are covered.

However if we are talkng about LONG weapons like the Bo or Jo staff (4' or greater) then using two hands is perfectly acceptable (in reality it is required!)  Here the hands are spaced out to control the longer weapon and they are not made simultaneously vulnerable to an opponents single strike.

Remember SPEED is critical to generating the desired force at the end of your stick and having two hands on that short will inhibit your ability to generate that.

Regards,
Rob


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## Rich Parsons (Jul 5, 2006)

Phadrus00 said:
			
		

> UNK,
> 
> My experience has been that when dealing with a short stick (30" or shorter") the FMA training is almost exclusively one handed primarily for speed (the light weapon has little concussive value and you must augment it with speed to generate the deisred power) but also, as HKPhooey pointed out, to free up your second hand for Tapi-Tapi (checking, inserting, countering) as well as for use with an additional weapon such as a blade or second stick. Having two hands on a shorter weapon leaves them BOTH vulnerable to being attacked and disabled in a single strike from your opponent. Some exceptions do exist however such as when you are transitioning the stick from one hand to the other whcioh may require you having both hands on it at some point however these maneuvers are never done as an attack but rather in close to the body where they are covered.
> 
> ...




From what I have seen, it also depends upon the size and attributes of the weapon that determines the position of your hands and how it is wielded.


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## Makalakumu (Jul 5, 2006)

This question is coming from a little exercise we did in our dojang the other day.  We had our ukes swing sticks one handed and two handed and it was much much harder to disarm the stick held in two hands.  

Also, HK I've never done a FMA that used two handed striking.  I was wondering if anyone has.


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## Rich Parsons (Jul 5, 2006)

upnorthkyosa said:
			
		

> This question is coming from a little exercise we did in our dojang the other day. We had our ukes swing sticks one handed and two handed and it was much much harder to disarm the stick held in two hands.
> 
> Also, HK I've never done a FMA that used two handed striking.  I was wondering if anyone has.




That is true, if you treat the stick like a sword for the disarm then you can practice those techniques.

There is a system I heard about from Tim Kashino that uses two hands, and some use two hands for choking and grappling maneuvers. And this falls into what Tim had mentioned. Although it look a lot like some of the military stuff I have seen for crowd control, but that was at a slight glance nothing detailed.


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## bobbo (Jul 6, 2006)

when you get into spear and staff fighting, using two hands is common. Everything is fairly the same as using a single short stick with one hand, you just have to get used to using two hands. I mean you disarm the same, and you defend and strike the same, and you move the same; nothing really changes.


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## Raymund Suba (Jul 26, 2006)

When one strikes two handed, one has more torque(?) in their strike. Meaning there is more of a push to it after the initial impact.

In Arnis, it's not uncommon to see the weapon gripped with two hands when resistance occurs. And I dont mean just a weapon to weapon resistance. When Tapi-tapi occurs, one can negate the other person's checking arm by gripping your weapon with two hands.

That and the choking and grappling stuff already mentioned above


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## Guro Harold (Jul 26, 2006)

Raymund Suba said:
			
		

> When one strikes two handed, one has more torque(?) in their strike. Meaning there is more of a push to it after the initial impact.
> 
> In Arnis, it's not uncommon to see the weapon gripped with two hands when resistance occurs. And I dont mean just a weapon to weapon resistance. When Tapi-tapi occurs, one can negate the other person's checking arm by gripping your weapon with two hands.
> 
> That and the choking and grappling stuff already mentioned above


 
Hi Raymund,

Welcome to MartialTalk and thanks for your post!

-Palusut
MT Senior Moderator


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## arnisador (Jul 26, 2006)

Raymund Suba said:
			
		

> And I dont mean just a weapon to weapon resistance. When Tapi-tapi occurs, one can negate the other person's checking arm by gripping your weapon with two hands.



Or possibly, gripping your weapon hand/arm with your free hand!


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## Guro Harold (Jul 26, 2006)

Ha!!!

I like how you all are thinking!

Here are some other cool techniques...

- Use your other free hand to smash the stick at whatever target is available.

- Use the extra leverage for a neck or clavicle take down.

- Power assists are great too.


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## lhommedieu (Jul 27, 2006)

Generally there is a trade-off when using a two-handed grip vs. a one-handed grip with an eskrima-length stick:  two hands give you more power as you can apply more "torque" (as one poster suggested, above).  Another way to look at this is that you are applying more mass and that it's very easy to put your body weight into the strike; you generally have to give up a little on speed and the stick will be closer to your own body - so you give up on distance as well.

Pekiti Tirsia Kali does a two-handed grip on a couple of its variations of the 12 strikes, and Tuhon McGrath's walking stick curriculum (to be taught at this year's Summer Camp, in Fishkill, NY) uses a primarily two-handed weapon.  See also my review of Suro Mike Inay's Inayan Largo Mano tape on FMATalk:  while the techiniques performed in the video are one-handed, Suro Inay makes the point that the weapon is a surrogate for the kampilan and that the use of two hands is preferable if the weapon is very heavy and long relative to the size of the practioner.  The stick used in this case is 40" long.

Best,

Steve Lamade


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## avm247 (Feb 23, 2007)

Sorry for reviving an old thread, but wanted to add my 2 Cents. 

In Estalilla Bansuelo Kabaroan, we tend to use longer, heavier sticks.  My favorite length is 36" stick.  It allows for an increased reach as well in "medium range" (range is subjective/relative to the weapon and user, in Kabaroan, long range tends to be considered to be beyond the reach of the bladed/impact weapon and refers to the use of projectile/short throw weaponry - slingshot, blowgun, sibat).  In close range (punching/kicking/knife) range, we have a technique where  we switch from Sencilla style (single hand- single weapon) to Bambollia style (double hand-single weapon) holding the longer stick in a bar arm or port arm method leaving about 6-8" to the outside of the hand position.     This allows for Slams, Butts, Gores as well as locks and disarms.  The ability to transition from medium to close range with a single weapon increases the practitioners arsenal. 

GM Estalilla's current photo gallery has some (3) images of him training us at GM Bansuelo's residence in Bambollia.  One of the images is GM Estalilla using Sencilla style while GM Banuelo is using Bambolia style.  (Maestro Dexter Labanog is in the background).  (Scroll to the bottom.)

http://www.estalillakabaroan.com/id5.html


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