# Overweight Karate Instructors



## mathemajikian (Sep 14, 2012)

So, I've been to a few dojos in my area, and Ive noticed that a lot of the instructors are extremely overweight. When they demonstrate techniques they look really bad and, horribly unbalanced; however, some of them seem to have a lot of martial arts experience/knowledge. Many of them have actually lived and trained in Japan! I've seen photos of these instructors when they were younger, and I would have loved to train with them then, but now that they have let themselves go I'm sort of wary. So, what do you guys think? Can an overweight instructor teach you to be a good martial artist or will the fact that they can no longer walk the walk effect the training youre receiving?


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## Master Dan (Sep 14, 2012)

I think you should get on the matt with them attack them all out any way you like choose any weopon and get back to us on that if you learned anything??

Our American Diet is at best self medicating? But also the higher knowledge level that does not require older men to no longer need to do more athletlic moves which were meant for alot of reasons including keeping the young busy tends to let them slip into doing less aerobic training. I think also the prevalence in our culture of no longer having respect for age and experience kids thinking that MA must be either gladiators fighting in cages like dogs or flying in the air arrogantly thinking they have nothing to offer tends to make some just give up?

Its your loss not thier's if you choose to judge based on superficial values from an imature and ingnorant value base


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## Blindside (Sep 14, 2012)

I am sure that old fat karateka might be dangerous, I am also pretty sure that if I took that same Old Fat Karateka and paired him against his clone Old Fit Karateka, my money would be on the old fit guy.  

And if you are selling an art that is advertising how it is good for getting you in shape and the level of discipline it will instill, maybe the instructor ought to be able to demonstrate that is his own life.


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## K-man (Sep 14, 2012)

My first instructor was as lean as a whippet.  My next one was stocky.  His successor was greatly overweight and my last one was positively obese.  They were all very light on their feet and they all could handle their kumite.  All these guys had good martial art knowledge, in their own style, and they all were competent teachers.

Would I want to be extremely overweight? No. But that is a lifestyle choice, nothing to do with my training.  If I was obese, I would be more concerned with my health than my ability to teach.   :asian:


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## seasoned (Sep 14, 2012)

mathemajikian said:


> So, I've been to a few dojos in my area, and Ive noticed that a lot of the instructors are *extremely overweight.* When they demonstrate techniques *they look really bad and, **horribly unbalanced;* however, some of them seem to have a lot of martial arts experience/knowledge. Many of them have actually lived and trained in Japan! I've seen photos of these instructors when they were younger, and I would have loved to train with them then, but now that *they have let themselves go* I'm sort of wary. So, what do you guys think? Can an overweight instructor teach you to be a good martial artist or will the fact that they can no longer walk the walk effect the training youre receiving?


The above speaks for itself. That said, sure you can learn from an overweight sensei, but, for their own good and the good of Martial arts, they should stay in shape. The way you describe it above, they need to get a grip...............


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## UKS (Sep 14, 2012)

My second teacher was overweight when I started with him and he could move quite well and could spar just fine and his balance was very good. I think that being over weight is a life style thing, I think that you can still find a very good teacher even though they are over weight. 

I agree for the health of the instructor and for the good of the martial arts they should try to be in good shape and take care of there body.


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## Aiki Lee (Sep 14, 2012)

I don't think wieght has anything to do with skill or teaching ability, but if someone is not pushing himself to be at his best how can you expect him to push others to be their best?


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## Tez3 (Sep 14, 2012)

mathemajikian said:


> So, I've been to a few dojos in my area, and I&#8217;ve noticed that a lot of the instructors are extremely overweight. When they demonstrate techniques they look really bad and, horribly unbalanced; however, some of them seem to have a lot of martial arts experience/knowledge. Many of them have actually lived and trained in Japan! I've seen photos of these instructors when they were younger, and I would have loved to train with them then, but now that they have let themselves go I'm sort of wary. So, what do you guys think? Can an overweight instructor teach you to be a good martial artist or will the fact that they can no longer walk the walk effect the training you&#8217;re receiving?



So, where are you based? I can't imagine that all the instructors are morbidly obese, we don't have that many instructors here. If you can say where you are I can probably recommend somewhere where there's normal sized instructors! Note, I'm basing this on your 'American in UK' location


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## Carol (Sep 14, 2012)

mathemajikian said:


> So, I've been to a few dojos in my area, and Ive noticed that a lot of the instructors are extremely overweight. When they demonstrate techniques they look really bad and, horribly unbalanced; however, some of them seem to have a lot of martial arts experience/knowledge. Many of them have actually lived and trained in Japan! I've seen photos of these instructors when they were younger, and I would have loved to train with them then, but now that they have let themselves go I'm sort of wary. So, what do you guys think? Can an overweight instructor teach you to be a good martial artist or will the fact that they can no longer walk the walk effect the training youre receiving?



Train with someone who is not overweight.  A student who cannot check their issues at the dojo door does often does little more than bring the class down and take away from the students who genuinely want to be there.   

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## arnisador (Sep 14, 2012)

I too would say give the guy a shot...everyone moves differently, and two thin, fit people won't fight the same way anyway. Maybe he can train you! Would you say this, after all, about fat football or basketball coaches?


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## rainesr (Sep 14, 2012)

mathemajikian said:


> So, I've been to a few dojos in my area, and Ive noticed that a lot of the instructors are extremely overweight. When they demonstrate techniques they look really bad and, horribly unbalanced; however, some of them seem to have a lot of martial arts experience/knowledge. Many of them have actually lived and trained in Japan! I've seen photos of these instructors when they were younger, and I would have loved to train with them then, but now that they have let themselves go I'm sort of wary. So, what do you guys think? Can an overweight instructor teach you to be a good martial artist or will the fact that they can no longer walk the walk effect the training youre receiving?



I have had instructors who had hip replacements, knee replacements, damaged vertebra, one was also very old and I think they taught well even with those limitations, so I think someone extremely overweight could as well.

That being said, unless there is a medical or life altering issue, a teacher who is so obese that they can't perform the things they teach raises a red flag. Why would a person choose a lifestyle that completely hinders their ability to practice something they apparently love or enjoy so much that they dedicate themselves to teaching and sharing it with others? It is not their expertise that would come into question but the mindset that got them into that situation.


~Rob


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## harlan (Sep 15, 2012)

I have to admit, I traveled to a seminar in the South a few years ago and was shocked. It did seem that the seniors in attendance, for whatever reason, were seriously overweight and out of shape. After observing the training and eating of the group for three days, I really think that the weather and American diet has a lot to do with it.



Tez3 said:


> So, where are you based? I can't imagine that all the instructors are morbidly obese, we don't have that many instructors here. If you can say where you are I can probably recommend somewhere where there's normal sized instructors! Note, I'm basing this on your 'American in UK' location


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## Bill Mattocks (Sep 15, 2012)

There is no single model that describes all martial arts instructors.  Being fit doesn't make one a good karateka, nor does it make one a bad karateka.  Same for being young, old, fat, thin, or anything else.

As Master Yoda says, _"Judge me by my size, do you?"_

When a new student says something amazingly stupid, it often sounds something like _"But he can't possibly teach good karate,"_ right before their butt hits the mat and they discover that old, fat, short, bald karateka can surprise the all-knowing newbie.

I am just a student myself; I have only been training going on five years now.  However, my Sensei asks me to help instruct newer students from time to time.  I love the jaw-dropped look they get on their faces when I demonstrate a block and counter by having them throw at my face (after persuading them to REALLY THROW), then brush-blocking it, stepping in, and stopping my backfist return a quarter-inch from their eyebrow.  Or when we do light sparring and I slap-bock their punches and land light taps on their foreheads at will, despite the fact that they are younger, faster, in better shape, and have better reflexes than I do.  The difference between us is only training, and it gives me the edge; decidedly.

And what's even more fun, when we do a dump out of wansu and by George, I can actually dump these buck-fifty feather-merchants.  Don't strain yourself trying to dump me, it's not going to work.

That is not to say that there is anything good about being out of shape, fat, or otherwise unable to perform the karate properly and effectively.  But quite often, we judge with our eyes and we should be using our analytic skills instead.  We decide that someone is 'good' or 'bad' at karate based on their obi size at our own risk.  I know a number of young, fit, sensei in my area who teach a hodge-podge art of largely ineffective skills that look good in tournament and nowhere else.  Is that really your criteria for a teacher?


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## Tez3 (Sep 15, 2012)

Depends what you consider overweight as well, if you are a fan of stick thin girls for example then you'd consider most women to be 'overweight' compared to them. If you are looking for abs of steel a la pro MMA fighter you probably won't find many of them either outside professional fighters gyms and even then don't be surprised if you find what you think is overweight fighters there too, someone I know was considered fat and yet turned out to be a good fighter. 
http://www.sherdog.com/fighter/Rob-Broughton-10924
Judging a book by it's covers isn't a good idea :lookie:


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## MJS (Sep 15, 2012)

I've seen some guys who were big, yet despite their size, they could move and they had stamina.  On the flip side, Ive also seen the opposite...the big man, who's stamina sucked, despite being able to throw fast, hard strikes.  It's a no brainer that many in America are over weight.  However, it's pretty sad, if the overweight inst, is having his students exercise, yet they can't do 20 pushups.  Furthermore, if the workout in and of itself is intense, then unless you're ok with stopping every 10 secs to catch your breath, then just by the process of working out, you should start getting in better shape.


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## Bill Mattocks (Sep 15, 2012)

MJS said:


> I've seen some guys who were big, yet despite their size, they could move and they had stamina.  On the flip side, Ive also seen the opposite...the big man, who's stamina sucked, despite being able to throw fast, hard strikes.  It's a no brainer that many in America are over weight.  However, it's pretty sad, if the overweight inst, is having his students exercise, yet they can't do 20 pushups.  Furthermore, if the workout in and of itself is intense, then unless you're ok with stopping every 10 secs to catch your breath, then just by the process of working out, you should start getting in better shape.



We exercise for the first 20 to 30 minutes of every class; stretches and calisthenics.  When I started, I had to take a break in the middle of it.  Now, no problems.  We do 100 pushups and 100 crunches, 50 side crunches, jumping jacks for 2 minutes, etc, etc.  I can go about 30 pushups - good pushups - before I need to do the rest from my knees, and I keep getting better.  And that's for a guy who is 51 years old, 5-10, and 245 (as of last week, down almost 20).  The crunches are no problem - I was nearly the boot camp champion at situps (115 in two minutes) in 1979 and I can do crunches all day long.  Under my belly fat, my stomach muscles are like iron bars.  Fear my punch, it stings.  FYI, we've got some younger guys who are lighter and appear to be in better shape; they can't do what I do.  We've also got some (OK, a lot of) guys who can run rings around me, I'm far from a model specimen.

I do not have the stamina I'd like, but I do keep working on it.  I had it for awhile a few years ago, then let it go again.  At my age, it's a constant struggle, not something one gets and keeps without effort.  So yeah, the stamina part isn't good yet.  It's a process.


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## MJS (Sep 15, 2012)

Bill Mattocks said:


> We exercise for the first 20 to 30 minutes of every class; stretches and calisthenics.  When I started, I had to take a break in the middle of it.  Now, no problems.  We do 100 pushups and 100 crunches, 50 side crunches, jumping jacks for 2 minutes, etc, etc.  I can go about 30 pushups - good pushups - before I need to do the rest from my knees, and I keep getting better.  And that's for a guy who is 51 years old, 5-10, and 245 (as of last week, down almost 20).  The crunches are no problem - I was nearly the boot camp champion at situps (115 in two minutes) in 1979 and I can do crunches all day long.  Under my belly fat, my stomach muscles are like iron bars.  Fear my punch, it stings.  FYI, we've got some younger guys who are lighter and appear to be in better shape; they can't do what I do.  We've also got some (OK, a lot of) guys who can run rings around me, I'm far from a model specimen.
> 
> I do not have the stamina I'd like, but I do keep working on it.  I had it for awhile a few years ago, then let it go again.  At my age, it's a constant struggle, not something one gets and keeps without effort.  So yeah, the stamina part isn't good yet.  It's a process.



At my current Kyokushin dojo, we stretch on our own when we get there.  For the beginner classes, we do a quick stretch in the beginning, and then a more intensive one at the end, along with the pushups, situps, squats, etc.  When I say quick, I'm talking 5min.  The advanced classes contain no stretching.  You do that on your own.  When we bow in, we get right into it.  

Stamina...LOL...after all my time in other schools, I thought I was in good shape.  Bill, when I started at this dojo, I made it roughly to the 30min mark, if that, and I was sucking wind..lol.  Now, compared to some of the BBs at this school, as well as those that've been there longer than I, their stamina is 10 fold, although I must say that in the year I've been there, I've noticed a big improvement, as well as a big weight loss.


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## seasoned (Sep 15, 2012)

mathemajikian said:


> So, I've been to a few dojos in my area, and I&#8217;ve noticed that a lot of the instructors are extremely overweight. *When they demonstrate techniques they look really bad and, horribly unbalanced;* however, some of them seem to have a lot of martial arts experience/knowledge. Many of them have actually lived and trained in Japan! I've seen photos of these instructors when they were younger, and I would have loved to train with them then, but now that they have let themselves go I'm sort of wary. So, what do you guys think? Can an overweight instructor teach you to be a good martial artist or will the fact that they can no longer walk the walk effect the training you&#8217;re receiving?





seasoned said:


> The above speaks for itself. That said, sure you can learn from an overweight sensei, but, for their own good and the good of Martial arts, they should stay in shape. *The way you describe it above, they need to get a grip.*..............



Hell most of the Okinawan sensei I have met were stocky, but, it didn't effect what they did and how they did it. 
The op statement above eludes to the fact that the extra pounds were not kind to the sensei techniques. This is what I focused on when reading the op, and what I feel should not be over looked in lieu of simply having extra pounds. 
I have seen skinny sensei with bad balance/bad technique and the same holds true for them, skinny or overweight, can't hack it, ain't getting my money........ And that's a fact.


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## arnisador (Sep 15, 2012)

Often a bigger instructor knows how to use his weight effectively--builds it into his fighting style.

But there's no excuse for bad technique.,,adapted, maybe, but not bad.


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## Gentle Fist (Sep 15, 2012)

Unfortunately the public sometimes has this perception that a martial arts instructor is supposed to have the body of Bruce Lee or Chuck Norris (in his prime  ).

In judo for example, many instructors are retired from competition and aren't the physical specimens they once were...  Our head club instructor is coming up on 60 years old and has had several back surgeries.  He is just happy living a day without pain somewhere in his body.  

Get to know the instructor and see what he/she has to offer you in the form of knowledge.  Remember that they are a teacher and not a model for Black Belt Mag or Men's Fitness


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## Tony Dismukes (Sep 15, 2012)

If you look at someone who is overweight and assume that aspect of their appearance means they are less disciplined than a thin person, you may be making a major mistake.  A lot of it does come down to genetics.  I have always eaten whatever and however much I felt like and I've always been slim.  Even when I wasn't working out at all, my metabolism kept the pounds off.  That's just how my body works - staying slender requires no effort at all.  Someone else with a different metabolism might have to exercise fantastic self-discipline in their diet and exercise just to keep themselves from becoming morbidly obese.

Technique is a different issue.  You would hope that an instructor would be able to move well enough to illustrate good technique.  That's not to say an instructor who is too old and injured to perform all the moves can't be a good coach.  If they have the eye to see what you need in order to improve and the communication skills to get their points across, they can still be very helpful.  In those cases, though, it is a good idea to have an assistant instructor who can actually demonstrate the moves.


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## Tez3 (Sep 15, 2012)

It also depends as well on your experience in martial arts, for a beginner it's often disappointing to watch real martial arts if all you have seen before is the film and television martial arts. Watching a class do basics can seem very prosaic compared to the jumping, leaping flashy stuff you can see on the big and little screens. Different styles can also seem duller than others and perhaps 'off balance'.


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## mathemajikian (Sep 15, 2012)

Thanks for all the responses, most have them been eye opening. I don't think the instructors I met had any medical issues they just seemed to have bad eating habits. While talking to one I actually watched him finish off two large starbucks coffees, and a box of donuts.


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## Tez3 (Sep 16, 2012)

mathemajikian said:


> Thanks for all the responses, most have them been eye opening. I don't think the instructors I met had any medical issues they just seemed to have bad eating habits. While talking to one I actually watched him finish off two large starbucks coffees, and a box of donuts.



While he was training? so where is this place where all the instructors are fat?


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## K-man (Sep 16, 2012)

Tez3 said:


> Depends what you consider overweight as well, if you are a fan of stick thin girls for example then you'd consider most women to be 'overweight' compared to them. If you are looking for abs of steel a la pro MMA fighter you probably won't find many of them either outside professional fighters gyms and even then don't be surprised if you find what you think is overweight fighters there too, someone I know was considered fat and yet turned out to be a good fighter.
> http://www.sherdog.com/fighter/Rob-Broughton-10924
> Judging a book by it's covers isn't a good idea :lookie:


*Tez*, I have abs of steel and a six pack to die for!  Because I am so sensitive to the feelings of others, and I hate to show off, I actually keep my incredible body coverered with an insulating layer of flab. Just a disguise, of course.


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## Tez3 (Sep 16, 2012)

K-man said:


> *Tez*, I have abs of steel and a six pack to die for! Because I am so sensitive to the feelings of others, and I hate to show off, I actually keep my incredible body coverered with an insulating layer of flab. Just a disguise, of course.




I suppose that means I shall have to keep watching Bondi Beach rescue then! New series just started, first one New Year 2012. Rather like the newbie trainee, a bit of a bad boy, still like the old guy though, 62  still rescuing and rocking! He doesn't have the quite the abs of steel he used to etc but is still pulling them out of the water. I remember one episode where they had loads of people caught in a rip and he rescued someone by swimming with the rip instead of against it because he may not be young, may not be ripped by he's got the experience and knowledge gained in his longer life than the young uns.


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## K-man (Sep 16, 2012)

Tez3 said:


> I suppose that means I shall have to keep watching Bondi Beach rescue then! New series just started, first one New Year 2012. Rather like the newbie trainee, a bit of a bad boy, still like the old guy though, 62  still rescuing and rocking! He doesn't have the quite the abs of steel he used to etc but is still pulling them out of the water. I remember one episode where they had loads of people caught in a rip and he rescued someone by swimming with the rip instead of against it because he may not be young, may not be ripped by he's got the experience and knowledge gained in his longer life than the young uns.


Just be careful of the term "old". At 62 he's still a little younger than me and I'm of the opinion that old is somewhere up round 80. Maybe you haven't heard, but sixty is the new forty!     :s472:


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## OldKarateGuy (Sep 16, 2012)

@ K-Man
Hear, hear!


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## Buka (Sep 16, 2012)

I don't think a Sensei's ability to teach should be judged by his body type. Everyone knows hair color is the key.


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## Aiki Lee (Sep 16, 2012)

K-man said:


> Just be careful of the term "old". At 62 he's still a little younger than me and I'm of the opinion that old is somewhere up round 80. Maybe you haven't heard, but sixty is the new forty!     :s472:



Heh heh, old is anyone over 30! At least it will be until I turn 30!


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## Manny (Sep 16, 2012)

My good ol days had gone, in my teen years I was pretty tall and lean not too flexible but height and strong so my TKD was very good, now at almost 45 and with maybe 30 kilos more yes I am not as quick as I used to be and maybe I am not as flexible as I was an maybe my stamina is not as good but I am a good teacher (my studentes say this), my tech is rich and I know how to teach and yes I can put my students in a bad situation if I want doing kyorugy.

Definetively ower weight is not a good thing but I can tell you it's better for me to teach TKD classes tha stay in home getting more kilos sitting in the couch dinner and watching tv.

I am fighting with my weight and yes I know I am succeding a little and never will be at the 70-80 kilograms level but I know that with hard work I could get thet 90 kilograms point, not easy but achivable.

Manny


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## Buka (Sep 17, 2012)

I've always told my students, "If you really love Martial training don't  ever open your own school. Because when you do, your whole world  changes."

There's a lot involved in the subject of overweight Karate instructors. Teaching Martial Arts is not an easy thing, but it's an important thing. I thank the good Lord for all that have taught me over the years. I don't think most of us go into the Arts with the thought "I want to be a Sensei". I think we just want to be able to do all those fascinating things we've seen up to that point.

Genetics has a lot to do with it. As the years pass, different body types change at different rates. If you're prone to be thin, that's going to be your baseline, if you're prone to be thicker, that's your baseline. Those are the cards you're dealt, playing them is usually different for everybody. Skinny guys will never worry about going up in gi size, heavier guys battle it all the time.

When you teach, you create the pace. Even if you're drilling with the class, you can't drill like you could when you were just a student in class, because now you have to watch and correct everybody. You have to answer every question, you have to inspire, you have to sometimes heed who just walked in, you have to deal with everything that's going on in the dojo. Your "hours" on the dojo are no longer hell bent for leather, instead, you're helping everyone else try to achieve that. At the same time, you're trying to pay the rent, schedule classes, deal with little Joey's mom, answer the phone, clean the bathrooms and nine million other things you didn't have to deal with when you were just a student. Your energy and calorie burning rate is not the same as it was because you're just not training as hard - even though you want to.

I've seen many people gain weight as they age in the Arts. But the most weight is usually put on by those who teach, as opposed to those who do not. But as I think about it, I've seen fewer instructors from grappling arts put on weight compared to instructors of stand up Arts. I feel that a considerable weight gain has a more detrimental effect on kicking, footwork and sparring endurance than it does on technique in the grappling arts, especially rolling.

I'm a thin guy, always have been. And us thin guys tend to think we know more about losing weight than anybody else. I certainly did. In 2007 I decided to take a year off from training. I had relocated, took on new responsibilities, and I was just plain tired. I had been training a long time without a break. So I took one. And ate the same way I always had. I put on 27 pounds in ten months. I freaked and went right back to training. I figured I'd take it off in six months. It took two and a half years. I won't make that mistake again. And I'll never look at a heavier person again and think, "Why don't they just get in shape?"


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## Omar B (Sep 17, 2012)

I'm a bit late, but to chime in.  No, I would not learn karate from an overweight instructor no matter how credentialed.  It's like when Jim Harbaugh took over as coach for the 49ers.  He has rules about how the coaching staff should look and act, this includes being fit, not smoking, having a stable marriage.  Sport is a culture and that culture has to be observed by all involved.


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## Tez3 (Sep 17, 2012)

However 'overweight' is subjective. Is 'overweigt' someone who hasn't got a six pack or someone who is a couple of pounds heavier than they used to be? Can the OP tell us what he considered overweight please? Is it pounds and pounds or just that they aren't lean mean fighting machines?


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## seasoned (Sep 17, 2012)

mathemajikian said:


> So, When they demonstrate techniques they look really bad and, horribly unbalanced; however, some of them seem to have a lot of martial arts experience/knowledge. ?



I think the OP is saying they could not funtion properly...........




mathemajikian said:


> I don't think the instructors I met had any medical issues they just seemed to have bad eating habits. While talking to one I actually watched him finish off two large starbucks coffees, and a box of donuts.



And, this may be a part of it.  Just saying................


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## Tez3 (Sep 17, 2012)

As the OP has put their location as being in the UK I'd really like to know about the who's and the where's of these 'obese' instructors.


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## Carol (Sep 17, 2012)

K-man said:


> Just be careful of the term "old". At 62 he's still a little younger than me and I'm of the opinion that old is somewhere up round 80. Maybe you haven't heard, but sixty is the new forty!     :s472:



That means we are close in age.  :bangahead:


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## mathemajikian (Sep 17, 2012)

Tez3 said:


> As the OP has put their location as being in the UK I'd really like to know about the who's and the where's of these 'obese' instructors.


 
Sorry, I need to update my profile. I'm nolonger in the UK, I'm currently in the state of Nebraska in the USA.


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## K-man (Sep 17, 2012)

Carol said:


> That means we are close in age.  :bangahead:


Yep! And looks like you're shading me by three!


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## Tez3 (Sep 17, 2012)

mathemajikian said:


> Sorry, I need to update my profile. I'm nolonger in the UK, I'm currently in the state of Nebraska in the USA.




Ah OK, I was wondering if you were getting at our Brit instructors . It's not that we don't have overweight people here but we don't have a huge amount of martial arts instructors.


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## Adam Cave (Sep 18, 2012)

If the only purpose of the instructor is be a role model for his or her class, a healthy body does seem to be required, regardless of age. However, if you are looking for a teacher who can really use their martial arts to defend themselves, this is not necessarily the case. Fitness is important in some of the more physically demanding arts but those arts are often more sport oriented than self-defense oriented. I know plenty of well respected martial artists (carrying a few extra pounds) who understand how to use their bodies to maximum advantage. They are not going to attempt kicks or attacks that they cannot do. But, god help you if they hit you with what they can do. Lack of fitness is only a disadvantage if you are still relyin on fitness to augment your skills. I stay fit, but not because it makes me a better martial artist; because it makes me a healthier person. I will add one more thing that I heard the other day that I found interesting. A veteran instructor told me that our "job" as teachers is not to show students what we can do, but to show them what they can do. Food for thought.


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## seasoned (Sep 18, 2012)

Adam Cave said:


> If the only purpose of the instructor is be a role model for his or her class, a healthy body does seem to be required, regardless of age. However, if you are looking for a teacher who can really use their martial arts to defend themselves, this is not necessarily the case. Fitness is important in some of the more physically demanding arts but those arts are often more sport oriented than self-defense oriented. I know plenty of well respected martial artists (carrying a few extra pounds) who understand how to use their bodies to maximum advantage. They are not going to attempt kicks or attacks that they cannot do. But, god help you if they hit you with what they can do. Lack of fitness is only a disadvantage if you are still relyin on fitness to augment your skills. I stay fit, but not because it makes me a better martial artist; because it makes me a healthier person. I will add one more thing that I heard the other day that I found interesting. *A veteran instructor told me that our "job" as teachers is not to show students what we can do, but to show them what they can do. Food for thought.*



+ 1 Adam........... Great sentence above.


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## Grenadier (Sep 18, 2012)

There are many reasons why an instructor isn't going to be in good physical condition.  Weight issues, health issues, injuries, etc., can all take their toll on the body.  

Does this mean that they can't help you?  Absolutely not.  

I know of many excellent martial arts teachers who aren't in the best of health, but can certainly teach their students how to perform the most advanced techniques, the most advanced kata, etc., as long as they have taught them a good set of fundamentals from the start.  

I've seen instructors with bum knees pass on the knowledge on how to perform kata Unsu, which requires falling to the ground, as well as a 540 degree jump + double kick.  I've seen instructors who have virtually no flexibility left in them and not as good of a sense of balance as they used to, teach their students how to perform kata Gankaku (requires a lot of balance and coordination).  I've even seen a sensei basically withered away from his bout with cancer, teaching his student the kata Sochin (emphasizes strength), and getting his student to really rip out some powerful techniques, despite his own bad physical condition.  

As long as they gave their students a good, solid set of basic fundamental techniques from the start, then it's not that monumental of a task to make their students as good as any other teacher's students out there.


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## Aiki Lee (Sep 18, 2012)

Still, unless a person is in a position to know if someone is a good martial artist or not, the average person will judge by appearance. If you teach professionally and rely on it for income, your image matters.


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## Manny (Sep 20, 2012)

Looking fit MAY be a requirement for an isntructor or teacher inside a martial art dojo, however it's not mandatory. Some of the senseis I know are in good shape for their age (+40) and I know a judo sensei who's involved in judo since 1968, this sensi is a third dan in judo and has devote his life to it, he is overweight,tired and with his knees so bend to the sides that even walks weird HOWEVER his tecnike is so refined that need no effort to put you down wehere he wants, he maybe could not endure some rounds of randory with a young student but.... teaching he is one of the best. In the other hand I know a kenpo sensei who is 34 yesra old, hes not to tall and weights about 100 kilograms and yes he has a huge belly and this belly has isues to him and he is young at only 34 but because of life stile he must eat aoutside home and what he can find on the street you know TACOS, BURGERS, SODA, etc. and even he has a huge bally and no loger compete in tournamnets in kyorugy he is a subchampion on seld defense tornaments.

I am overweight but thnx God returning to TKD has helped to loose weight and keep me healthier than before returning TKD, now I am more agile and wiht better stamina than some years back, and even it's dificult to me to kick high to the head my flexibility it's better than the opnes some studants have.

Conclusion. I know if I zip my mouth and eat ealtheir and do more exercisa I could drop some kilos more and it's something I weant to do so wish me luck.

Manny


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## Blindside (Sep 20, 2012)

I'm 40, in the last 5 years I moved away from my old dojo, had two kids, started my own club, and managed to get out of shape.  I never got fat, but I added 5 pounds I didn't need, but mostly it was a lack of fitness.  Because my fitness was going down I could see it started to impact my execution of the art.  So this year I got off my butt and started training like I should, so that I can be a proper example to my students, I am a firm believer in leading by example.  Know what happened?  They saw the difference in my execution and over half have picked up their own fitness regimens to be able to execute the art at a higher level.  

 And this isn't just about being an instructor, simply that if I want to do my art to the best of my abilities, that requires that I be in good shape.  Maybe when my timing and sensitivity become godlike and I never have to exert any effort to manipulate my opponent, I will be able to say that my lack of fitness is not an impediment to my art, but I'm cerntainly not there yet and I'm betting that neither are 99% percent of the other instructors out there.   

I am sure that some maybe many instructors have health issues that don't allow them to train in a way that they can keep the pounds off, but I suspect that for most it is a lifestyle choice.  And if so, they have chosen a lifestyle that is probably detrimental to their execution of their art.  It shows their priorities.


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## Mauthos (Sep 24, 2012)

It can be problematic to be overweight as an instructor.

I am one such instructor and have constantly had the derisive look when people have found out that I teach a martial art.

However, my fitness levels are very high and I pride myself on having good technique and form within any aspect of the martial art I teach.  Understanding that I must be able to demonstrate anything as accurately as possibly to ensure my students fully understand and grasp the concepts I am teaching.

My weight gain however, came from being diagnosed as diabetic (at the time I was in shape and slim) however, unlike the average diabetic sufferer, I did not lose any weight to start with.  The medication I was on caused me to gain weight, and although I am no where near obese, I am not happy with the gut I am now carrying around.

Hopefully this week my medication is being altered for the first time in 7 years, unfortunately I will be going onto insulin, but the side effect of this would be that I should begin to slim down again.

My students all respect me and understand that I am proficient in the art I teach and understand my level of fitness equals and in some cases surpasses theirs as I do not expect them to do anything that I myself cannot.

Therefore, the circuits I run at the beginning of each class, which are quite intensive, I also join in ensuring that I can complete all aerobic and stamina/endurance exercises I set along with my students.

However, I do understand that new students coming into a class can be put off with an over weight instructor and no matter the reason for the weight an instructor must prove that he is capable and an effective and efficient martial artist. In my opinion anyway


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## Black Belt Jedi (Sep 30, 2012)

It all depends on the individual. Some overweight Karate instructors still have the skills, hence all the training and the years of practice is still in their head. So they are some that can still be technically sound and agile, so don't underestimate their appearance.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Sep 30, 2012)

There are quite a few overweight instructors who are better than me both in the techs, in kata, and in actual fighting. To me, that's enough qualifications to be my instructor, overweight or not.


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## Sensei_Dez (Sep 30, 2012)

I think you'd have to look into WHY they're overweight, genetics, heath problems, or maybe and injury that set them back. but in any case I think a good instructor overweight or otherwise should still have balance and be able to preform their techniques well. 

my instructor (who's a big boy, but still can kick over his head, move very fast, and maintian grace and balance) would always say "there's a difference between some who IS a blackbelt, and WAS a black belt" I'd say that in they still train and do their art well they're worth looking into, if they don't practice enough to maintain their form and don't maintian their health (not weight, health) then I'd look somewhere else.


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## FabianosKarate (Oct 24, 2012)

Instructors, especially those in schools where a main focus is staying in shape, shouldn't be morbidly obese. Now, I'm not the thinnest guy, but I'm not obese either!  That being said, an overweight Sensei (in my opinion) has a much greater chance of holding his own that Mr. Joe Shmo on the street. Training in martial arts is physical and mental. At one point his physical shape may have slipped, but a good martial artist will have their mind always in the sport.

That being said...being obese is a personal choice. I choose to not be obese and I think I can definitely move quicker than those who are. But to me, its a huge slap in the face when a big "marketing technique" is STAY IN SHAPE! You get in there, and its several obese Sensei's. It is not&#8203; a good example at all! Especially for those students with children's classes.


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## Carol (Oct 25, 2012)

FabianosKarate said:


> Instructors, especially those in schools where a main focus is staying in shape, shouldn't be morbidly obese. Now, I'm not the thinnest guy, but I'm not obese either!  That being said, an overweight Sensei (in my opinion) has a much greater chance of holding his own that Mr. Joe Shmo on the street. Training in martial arts is physical and mental. At one point his physical shape may have slipped, but a good martial artist will have their mind always in the sport.
> 
> That being said...being obese is a personal choice. I choose to not be obese and I think I can definitely move quicker than those who are. But to me, its a huge slap in the face when a big "marketing technique" is STAY IN SHAPE! You get in there, and its several obese Sensei's. It is not&#8203; a good example at all! Especially for those students with children's classes.




So, do you let other instructors that you are not connected to boss you around and tell you how you should run your school and what you should do with your personal life?

If yes, why do you give in to that? 

If no, then how is it your place to dictate what instructors you don't train under and schools you don't go to must do with their life and their school?  

That is something decided by the students (or parents), yes?


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## Blindside (Oct 26, 2012)

Carol said:


> So, do you let other instructors that you are not connected to boss you around and tell you how you should run your school and what you should do with your personal life?
> 
> If yes, why do you give in to that?
> 
> ...



I am not seeing him dictate anything, he is saying, as I said earlier in the thread, that if you are advertising about the fitness benefits of your art, and you have an obese instructor, there is clearly a disconnect in what you are presenting to the students.  If you aren't touting the fitness benefits then it probably doesn't matter.  But I think it goes beyond fitness, many martial arts also advertise how it encourages discipline, particularly to kids, and discipline isn't just about lining up in straight lines and saying "yes Sir!" it is about personal discipline as well.  An instructor with a bad case of forkinmouth isn't demonstrating that personal discipline either.  

This doesn't even begin to get into the self-defense benefits, Joe Bob the instructor has trained for 30 years to beat up badguys but gets taken out by a heart attack at 55 because of risk factors associated with obesity.


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## FabianosKarate (Oct 26, 2012)

Blindside said:


> I am not seeing him dictate anything, he is saying, as I said earlier in the thread, that if you are advertising about the fitness benefits of your art, and you have an obese instructor, there is clearly a disconnect in what you are presenting to the students.  If you aren't touting the fitness benefits then it probably doesn't matter.  But I think it goes beyond fitness, many martial arts also advertise how it encourages discipline, particularly to kids, and discipline isn't just about lining up in straight lines and saying "yes Sir!" it is about personal discipline as well.  An instructor with a bad case of forkinmouth isn't demonstrating that personal discipline either.
> 
> This doesn't even begin to get into the self-defense benefits, Joe Bob the instructor has trained for 30 years to beat up badguys but gets taken out by a heart attack at 55 because of risk factors associated with obesity.



Thankyou!  By the way, I love your phrasing of the "case of forkinmouth"


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## Black Belt Jedi (Nov 18, 2012)

I say that individuals should look at the credentials of the instructor, if he is a cofee table Martial Artist or really went through all the physical training in his prime. I won't train with an overweight instructor who drinks and smoke and don't take care of themselves.


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