# Axeing Roundhouse Kick



## Lynne (Oct 12, 2007)

We did the axeing roundhouse kick drills last night as wall kicks.  Some were slow, 5 seconds down and 5 seconds back.  Oh, that felt good!  Joking of course.

The axeing roundhouse kick feels vey awkward but so does the hook kick (to me).  I want to make sure I'm doing it correctly.  We extended our legs as in a regular roundhouse kick, then we rotated the leg forward and down, turning our foot down (over the hill), and then we rotated our leg backward, bringing the foot "back over the hill," so that we were making an arcing motion.  My understanding is that you keep the hips fairly stationery, only rotating the leg.  Why don't you use the hips or am I misunderstanding that part?  Is that correct? Also, can you tell me what the applications of an axeing roundhouse kick are?  Have you mastered the axeing kick?  How long did it take you?  My instructor last night said it has taken him about 6 years.


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## JT_the_Ninja (Oct 12, 2007)

Not completely sure I understand the kick you mean, but if you're not using your hip, you're going to hurt yourself. That's one of those rules of kicking, and especially roundhouse kicking.


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## Lynne (Oct 12, 2007)

JT_the_Ninja said:


> Not completely sure I understand the kick you mean, but if you're not using your hip, you're going to hurt yourself. That's one of those rules of kicking, and especially roundhouse kicking.


You know, it's funny.  I've just gotten the hang of engaging my waist and hips in roundhouse kicking.  What really taught me to do the kick correctly is drilling with Wavemasters.  Doing roundhouse kicks in sparring drills, we strike one side of the Wavemaster with one leg, then the other.  I found if I didn't twist my hips correctly, I'd stub my toes instead of striking with the top of my foot, so I really learned to twist.

I may have misunderstood something about the hips last night.  It was really loud in the Dojang.  We had such a large class we had to make four lines to warm up.

Maybe someone else can add some input, JT - you might call the kick something else.  When you kick out, you arc the foot down and then arc it back and down.


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## MBuzzy (Oct 12, 2007)

We have a very similar kick and I'm with JT - you MUST use your hips.  In fact, there are very few techniques in TSD or SBD that leave your hips stationary.  

The application of the kick (and I can testify to affectiveness with lots of blood) is to get around a block basically.  Imagine someone executing a normal inside outside block to the kick......one application is for the kick to come around the blocking arm and make contact inside the block.  Basically, the ends up hitting the shin while the foot goes in to kick the face.  It works very well when executed correctly - kind of hard to explain though.

As for how long it takes to "master" something - you will probably learn quickly that first...MASTERING something is a matter of your definition.  If that means to do something perfectly - NEVER.  If it means be comfortable with it, it depends on the person.  I've known people that pick up techniques and can do them well after only seeing it once...I also know people that need to practice for months to pick up the most basic techniques.  Neither are wrong - just illistrations that everyone is different.


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## JWLuiza (Oct 13, 2007)

I'm still not sure what kick you are all talking about....


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## Lynne (Oct 13, 2007)

We did the axeing roundhouse kick today and I think by saying to move the leg only we were meant to keep our upper bodies absolutely still.

I definitely engaged my hips.


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## Lynne (Oct 13, 2007)

JWLuiza said:


> I'm still not sure what kick you are all talking about....


Maybe I can find a video. I'll take a look.


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## Jai (Oct 13, 2007)

I know the kick you are talking about, and yes you MUST use your hips. This kind of kick will do some serious damage to your hips over time if you remain still. Aside from the hips issue from what you posted, the kick sounds correct.


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## Lynne (Oct 14, 2007)

MBuzzy said:


> We have a very similar kick and I'm with JT - you MUST use your hips. In fact, there are very few techniques in TSD or SBD that leave your hips stationary.
> 
> The application of the kick (and I can testify to affectiveness with lots of blood) is to get around a block basically. Imagine someone executing a normal inside outside block to the kick......one application is for the kick to come around the blocking arm and make contact inside the block. Basically, the ends up hitting the shin while the foot goes in to kick the face. It works very well when executed correctly - kind of hard to explain though.
> 
> As for how long it takes to "master" something - you will probably learn quickly that first...MASTERING something is a matter of your definition. If that means to do something perfectly - NEVER. If it means be comfortable with it, it depends on the person. I've known people that pick up techniques and can do them well after only seeing it once...I also know people that need to practice for months to pick up the most basic techniques. Neither are wrong - just illistrations that everyone is different.


Thank you.  I can visualize how you'd access the opening in the block by snaking around the blocking arm and rotating your foot down and bringing it back to "slap" someone in the face as in a hook kick, or use the heel to nail someone.  I can't imagine using that kick without having to "think" about it yet.  Some day!

I can rotate much better with my right leg than I can with my left.  Also, when we practice wall kicks, I can't kick very high.  But when we are sparring, I find I kick a lot higher.  I don't know if that's adrenalin or because my muscles are warmer.  I can kick my own head height when sparring but when doing wall kicks or kicking drills, I'm lucky to kick mid-thigh.  Oh, well.  Stretching and time.


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## Lynne (Oct 14, 2007)

Jai said:


> I know the kick you are talking about, and yes you MUST use your hips. This kind of kick will do some serious damage to your hips over time if you remain still. Aside from the hips issue from what you posted, the kick sounds correct.


What do you call the kick where you train?  I can't find anything on the internet.  I am using the hips, most definitely.


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## agemechanic03 (Oct 14, 2007)

Lynne said:


> I can rotate much better with my right leg than I can with my left.  Also, when we practice wall kicks, I can't kick very high.  But when we are sparring, I find I kick a lot higher.  I don't know if that's adrenalin or because my muscles are warmer.  I can kick my own head height when sparring but when doing wall kicks or kicking drills, I'm lucky to kick mid-thigh.  Oh, well.  Stretching and time.



Lynne, I kinda have the same problem b/c of my hips. I do notice that when doing drills down the dojang, that if my Sa Bum has the focus pads, i can kick higher and harder, and the same with sparring, i can kick higher, but if I'm kicking the air, my roundhouse kicks suck. I feel the pain Lynne, I feel the pain. Oh, and I'm only 22, bad hips at 22 AAAAAAHHHHH!!! Best of luck to u!

Tang Soo!!
CHRIS


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## Jai (Oct 15, 2007)

The term we used was a "twisting" kick. I've looked online as well and can't find anything... Maybe this is some ultra secret kick we aren't supposed to know about?


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## JWLuiza (Oct 16, 2007)

http://images.google.com/images?q=t...US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&sa=N&tab=wi

Twist Kick?  Is this what you mean?  (Peet Cha Gi Bup)


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## crushing (Oct 16, 2007)

Is this it?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kick#Twist_Kick

*Twist Kick*
The twist kick begins as would a front kick. However, the practitioner, beginning as with a front kick, allows the heel to move towards the center of the body. The kick is then directed outward from a cross-leg chamber so that the final destination of the kick is a target to the side, rather than one that is directly ahead.


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## MBuzzy (Oct 16, 2007)

I can find out the name of the kick that I was referring to tonight, but if we're talking about Peet Cha Gi, its a completely different kick.  Basically Peet Cha Gi is a reverse roundhouse.  The one that I was referring to is basically a normal roundhouse with a different trajectory.


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## crushing (Oct 16, 2007)

MBuzzy said:


> I can find out the name of the kick that I was referring to tonight, but if we're talking about Peet Cha Gi, its a completely different kick. Basically Peet Cha Gi is a reverse roundhouse. *The one that I was referring to is basically a normal roundhouse with a different trajectory*.


 
That's the way I was thinking of it it before 'twist kick' was added to the conversation.  Are you talking about where the kicking side hip comes over and down such as to strike the outside of the opponent's near side leg with a downward movement?  I think of Muay Thai when considering this kick even though we've done this in my classes.


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## tshadowchaser (Oct 16, 2007)

the axe roundhouse sounds like the MT roundhouse. The kick is a roundhouse that drops downward, usualy to the neck. 
yes the hips should be turned to get the best effect and power and to stop you from injuring yourslef


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## Lynne (Oct 17, 2007)

agemechanic03 said:


> Lynne, I kinda have the same problem b/c of my hips. I do notice that when doing drills down the dojang, that if my Sa Bum has the focus pads, i can kick higher and harder, and the same with sparring, i can kick higher, but if I'm kicking the air, my roundhouse kicks suck. I feel the pain Lynne, I feel the pain. Oh, and I'm only 22, bad hips at 22 AAAAAAHHHHH!!! Best of luck to u!
> 
> Tang Soo!!
> CHRIS


I have to say it's the most painful kick I've done so far (at the wall).  I thought doing a hundred side kicks hurt.  Ha.


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## Lynne (Oct 17, 2007)

No crushing, JWLuiza - I don't think those are the kicks.  Nor is it the reverse roundhouse kick.  You are axeing down with the front of your foot initially and then axeing a second time when you arc the foot back to a roundhouse position

Imagine yourself with your body perpendicular to a wall.  Assume roundhouse position with your lower leg bent, foot of kicking leg drawn up near your buttocks so that your shoulder and knee are aligned.  In a regular roundhouse drill (wall kick), you'd merely snap you leg out from the knee and return it to the buttocks position for each kick. But for the axeing kick you make the arcing motion as follows:   kick your leg straight out while rotating the foot down toward the floor (frontward).  Arc the foot up and over to the opposite side.  This time the heel will lead.  One and two.  Two smooth motions.  The foot returns to roundhouse position.

Does this make the kick a little clearer?

As far applications go, in Tang Soo Do we do not kick below the belt so the Muay Thai applications don't apply.  I could see how the kick would be effective in Muay Thai - you could hit one side of the knee and then the other or the thigh.  In sparring class, the instructor mentioned striking the opponent's chest with the foot as it arcs down and bringing the foot back to hit the side of the head.


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## JWLuiza (Oct 17, 2007)

So a downward angle roundkick, then an upward angle hook kick?


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## MBuzzy (Oct 17, 2007)

As we execute it, the initial movement is an upward angle of the roundhouse, then it reaches a peak and descends in to the target., so upward angle, then downward angle.  It doesn't go back to a hook kick.


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## Lynne (Oct 17, 2007)

JWLuiza said:


> So a downward angle roundkick, then an upward angle hook kick?


No, not an upward angle hook kick.  When you finish executing the downward turn of the foot, you move your leg and foot upward and backward, then drop the leg and foot down the last part of the arc.  You don't hook with the leg.

This is just as plain as mud, isn't it?


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## Lynne (Oct 17, 2007)

MBuzzy said:


> As we execute it, the initial movement is an upward angle of the roundhouse, then it reaches a peak and descends in to the target., so upward angle, then downward angle. It doesn't go back to a hook kick.


MBuzzy has described a practical application of it.  I think our only difference is the initial drop and turn of the foot to make the forward part of the arc.


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## JWLuiza (Oct 17, 2007)

Lynne said:


> No, not an upward angle hook kick.  When you finish executing the downward turn of the foot, you move your leg and foot upward and backward, then drop the leg and foot down the last part of the arc.  You don't hook with the leg.
> 
> This is just as plain as mud, isn't it?



It makes no sense!!!  need video!


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## MBuzzy (Oct 17, 2007)

Unfortunately, I'm not great at it - I will try to get some video though.


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