# Tai Chi for Self-Defense?



## arnisador (Aug 20, 2003)

Does anyone have any stories of actually using their Tai Chi training in self-defense?

Interpret the question as broadly as you wish!


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## Taiji fan (Aug 21, 2003)

I could say that I use taiji in this way everyday.......mostly avoiding problems by awareness...I guess it is the same in all martial arts.  I use the skills that i train in when dealing with people, the confidence I have gained through taiji etc.  But I guess this is not really what you are looking for in the thread so I will recount a couple of students of mines story......The students an older gentleman and his wife were holidaying in Italy when a theif tried to grab the  wifes bag...quick as a flash she had fended her off and restrained her in an arm lock.  Even better that these two students are in their 70's.


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## liangzhicheng (Aug 21, 2003)

Really using Tai Chi in self-defense means not being in the wrong place at the wrong time so that there is no need to get into conflict  Of course I'm nowhere near that level of sensitivity, so I have a couple somewhat mundane examples of using Tai Chi not quite in self-defense.  

1. I was at a club minding my own business when a drunk girl decides to fall onto me.  I yielded a bit, then pushed her back onto her feet using my shoulder without thinking about it.  I don't think she even realized she had fallen on someone.

2.  I was walking to the Tai Chi school during a very heavy rain.  Streets were flooding, which meant big splashes if a vehicle drove close to the curb.  I never got splashed because I was able to analyze situations quickly enough and get out of the way of some rather large splashes.  I still got soaked though  

Boring? Perhaps, but I'd rather not get mugged :asian:


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## arnisador (Aug 21, 2003)

Yes, I agree that not being there is the best self-defense!


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## shaolinchi (Aug 28, 2004)

I agree, also, the best self defense is bouncing!  But i have kind of a funny story.  I had just bought my car, which i had never driven standard before, it slid on ice after i got out of it, and i was basically right in front of the car.  I yielded to it, though it still clipped me, i saved myself from re-breaking my surgically repaired wrist!  so i was happy


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## pakua (Sep 21, 2004)

I think taiji would be great for self-defense as long as the other guy's not in any great hurry


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## Taiji fan (Sep 24, 2004)

> I think taiji would be great for self-defense as long as the other guy's not in any great hurry



:whip1: that used to be a standing joke....punch me slowley I do taiji :moon:


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## Zathras (Sep 28, 2004)

I'm also interested in stories along these lines.

I've been doing Yang for nearly a year now at a school which is very strong minded about it being martial, to the point where many people get practically run out the door for suggesting its moving yoga before a chance at their first lesson.  

However certainly during the first few years, training on the martial side is restricted to a demonstration here and there on an application purely to help you visualise the moves better or explain why that foot or wrist needs to move exactly as shown.   Which I think is a shame as I would like to practice this side more often, but I have to leave that to the better judgement of the teacher.

Its very obvious when its done just how powerful the art is but I think that the advanced students, and teachers wouldn't actually have to use any "contact" moves (for want of better description) but would most likely just not allow themselves to be hit or grabbed by moving out the way in an advanced push hands manor.  After someone has tried and failed to kick/punch/grab you a couple of times and your still standing with your hands by your side and calm, asking them nicely to "stop doing that please" then they have a serious think about it and move on.

I've dabbled a little (very carefully) with another student out class with the application some more, but only been able to apply anything with any real affect when the assailant has actually grabbed you.  But in those cases, even being very careful and slow moving we have launched each other around or locked joints without any real effort.  

More stories of real life incidents which Tai Chi has been used would be nice to hear.


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## vampyre_rat (Sep 29, 2004)

Zathras said:
			
		

> More stories of real life incidents which Tai Chi has been used would be nice to hear.


ok, two people I know were walking down the street in Glasgow when a couple of drunks accosted them.  The first guy, who had been studying taiji for a few years, deflected the assault and managed to push the guy quite a few metres away.  This assailant decided to not bother them any more and wandered off.  The second guy was from an aikido or karate background, I forget which, and his more martial response served to anger the assailant.  Eventually this guy left as well.  The point being that the taiji player was able to 'defeat' his opponent without really getting into a 'fight'.

I do not know how good the aikido/karate guy was.


On another point.  Practicing applications from the form as a means for visualising the form and what is happening is fine, but trying to put them into 'real' self-defense training _could_ lead to a set response that will not always work.

You are better trying random attacks at a slower speed and trying to use taiji principle to make your own moves based on your natural instincts and work from there.  That way you do not train a set response.

This is just my opinion.


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## Zathras (Sep 29, 2004)

vampyre_rat said:
			
		

> The point being that the taiji player was able to 'defeat' his opponent without really getting into a 'fight'.


Good story, and pretty much what I'd expect most Tai Chi in the real world may turn out like... cheers.



			
				vampyre_rat said:
			
		

> ... trying to put them into 'real' self-defense training _could_ lead to a set response that will not always work.
> 
> You are better trying random attacks at a slower speed and trying to use taiji principle to make your own moves based on your natural instincts and work from there.  That way you do not train a set response.


Very good point! We have a few times played the drunking attacker just to see how the body would react, and the results were interesting as neither of us responded with real Tai Chi but the response was _like_ Tai Chi movements.. very unlike my response would have been 12 months ago.


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## RandomPhantom700 (Sep 29, 2004)

I'm glad to see a thread about the, well, I guess I'll say practical application of Tai Chi.  I have been considering it both for learning self-defense and as a general self-improvement practice, I suppose, and would like to hear about its applications for both.  Thank you.


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## vampyre_rat (Sep 29, 2004)

RandomPhantom700 said:
			
		

> ... and would like to hear about its applications for both. Thank you.


Well taiji is an excellent exercise for your legs and in particular your hips.  Here in the West people tend to age in their legs.  People are getting hip replacements and need frames to walk.  By doing taiji we increase the flexibility of the hips and strengthen the legs.  It also works wonders on your sense of balance, thus making falls far less likely.

The forms are excellent meditation, among other things, allowing you to 'get away' from the trials and tribulations of daily life and generally de-stress.  The philosophy behind the art can also help you to deal with the stresses that life throws at you.  Allowing you to stay relaxed in the middle of the storm.

As for the martial side?  Well it teaches us to be relaxed in the face of an attack so that we can flow and redirect that attack to maximum effect. Unfortunately the ability to read the attack so that we can deal with it in a relaxed and flowing manner takes time.  The amount of time this takes depends on your natural ability, the teaching that you get and your willingness to persevere.  Some say that the amount of time required ends up being in the region of 10 years.  Others disagree, they say it takes longer!


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## Zathras (Sep 30, 2004)

vampyre_rat, I've never heard Tai Chi explained better!

Excellent overview which matches my thoughts and understanding completely.


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## vampyre_rat (Sep 30, 2004)

Thank you :asian:


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## pakua (Oct 18, 2004)

vampyre_rat said:
			
		

> ok, two people I know were walking down the street in Glasgow when a couple of drunks accosted them.



Drunks? In _Glasgow_?


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## Skankatron Ltd (Feb 19, 2005)

vampyre_rat said:
			
		

> The amount of time this takes depends on your natural ability, the teaching that you get and your willingness to persevere. Some say that the amount of time required ends up being in the region of 10 years. Others disagree, they say it takes longer!


 I don't know if my experience holds true for everyone, but I've only been taking taiji for a month or two and I already instinctively apply it. Perhaps I don't apply the _exact_ moves per say, but close. A friend jokingly punched me and was surprized to find a 'split' from bagua intercepting his fist. I've noticed that taiji has increased my reaction speed like _nothing_ else. It's amazing. I played ultimate frisbee and that increased my reflexes, but now it's like BUZZOW!
 The whole "if your opponent hits you, you hit them first" thing, i guess. Has anyone else had their reflexes go through the roof? I can't really explain it logically since we prastic slow. _NONE_ of our practices are fast paced and yet they somehow apply in everyday life at whatever speed is necessary.






In conclusion, I like pirates.


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