# real or fake



## hapki-bujutsu (Nov 15, 2003)

Just wanted to know what everyone thought of ma in movies. I like movies where they are over the top. When I watch a movie I want to escape real life. I loved the matrix and crouching tiger. Do you like movies with more real life incounters or flashy over the top moves that could never be pulled off in real situation?


----------



## theletch1 (Nov 17, 2003)

I enjoy the old hong kong ma flicks and crouching tiger (zhang xiyi yummy) but I prefer the fight scenes that push the envelope to the point that it would take nearly super human skill to accomplish but still leaves you with the feeling that if I bust my butt training maybe, just maybe, I'll be that good one day.


----------



## hardheadjarhead (Nov 17, 2003)

I agree with the letch...but Michelle Yeoh (in my book) is the hottie in "Crouching Tiger".

I saw her in a film with Jackie Chan where she did a spinning axe kick, smashed a guys face into a table, took his gun, took out HER gun, pointed it at the bad guys and gave them stink eye.

It was love from there on in....

My wife is aware of the situation, and not particularly concerned.  Nor am I really worried about the thing she and Brad Pitt have going.  Same sort of dynamic.

Sigh.

Steve Scott


----------



## LadyDragon (Nov 17, 2003)

I have to admit that I love the Matrix.  And Crouching Tiger was a damn good movie too.  But every now and then I would like to see a movie that does have some more realistic fight scenes.

In my personal oppinion, to many MA movies are using wire tricks.  Granted, a lot of the old Kung Fu movies were done that way, but even still a real fight on occassion wouldn't kill the industry.


----------



## hardheadjarhead (Nov 17, 2003)

Jackie Chan's older stuff is really good.  Genuine movement, no wire work.  

I don't mind the wire work if the rest of the fighting looks okay.  Crouching Tiger didn't do it for me in that respect.  

SCS


----------



## MartialArtsChic (Nov 17, 2003)

Knowing how they do the movies with the wire work, blue screens and stuff just ruins the illusion for me.   I want to wonder "Wow, how did they do that" instead of "oh, they've got a harness on and look, you can see the wire".

I prefer more real fighting scenes in movies (well as real as they can get being choreographed) that make me cheer for the good guys and yell out when the bad guys get their butts whooped.


Lorrie


----------



## Zepp (Nov 17, 2003)

Matrix type Movie-Fu is cool, and fun to watch, but give me the realistic stuff any day.  Jackie Chan's Hong Kong movies are definitely the best I've ever seen.  And I totally dug the knife-fighting portrayed in "The Hunted."


----------



## KennethKu (Nov 17, 2003)

> _Originally posted by MartialArtsChic _
> ...Knowing how they do the movies with the wire work, blue screens and stuff just ruins the illusion for me.   I want to wonder "Wow, how did they do that" instead of "oh, they've got a harness on and look, you can see the wire".
> ...



It is nothing more than choreographed stunts and special effect scenes caterring to a mass audience.

Is there any movie where the fight scenes are real? Without all those exaggeration and BS stuffs, it would be a comparatively rather boring movie.


----------



## MartialArtsChic (Nov 17, 2003)

> _Originally posted by KennethKu _
> *It is nothing more than choreographed stunts and special effect scenes caterring to a mass audience.
> 
> Is there any movie where the fight scenes are real? Without all those exaggeration and BS stuffs, it would be a comparatively rather boring movie. *



I'd rather have the illusion in tact for a little bit.  They tend to  have all the specials out before the movie or the first weekend on how they made it, the tricks, etc. that's it's just no fun for me to see it.

The good old fashioned choreographed fight scenes (provided the people can pull them off well) are the ones I really, really enjoy.

MartialArtsChic


----------



## kyushoT (Nov 18, 2003)

I find that I like them both equally as well.

I like to watch more realistic fighting scenes because I find them very interesting. Like in "The Hunted", or  the Gun fights in "Heat"

But at the same time going to the movies to see people do things that cant actually be done. Matrix, Bullet Proof Monk, The Rundown... ect.  Thats just a fun time escaping at the movies.

I have a good time with either.

Hows that for a cop out answer... I feel strongly both ways.

:btg: 
Tim P


----------



## TonyM. (Nov 18, 2003)

I must be a freek. I don't care for MA movies in general. Then again I seem to care less about cinema overall than most people. Oh well. I suppose MA movies aren't quite as silly as all those shootemups with the thirty shot revolvers.


----------



## someguy (Nov 18, 2003)

I like them both.  Matrix is cool.  Old Jackie Chan movies make me go duuuuuuuuuuuude more though.  I know he had to do that crazy looking stuff by skill not wires which makes it more impressive.  His newer ones are funnier though.


----------



## hardheadjarhead (Nov 18, 2003)

Sometimes it isn't just the choreography...its the camera angles and shots.  I thought "Master and Commander" was an excellent movie up until the final fight scene.  The shots were too close and claustrophobic.  You couldn't get a sense of what was going on.

Regards,

Steve Scott


----------



## Jeff Boler (Nov 18, 2003)

I find myself being quite critical of films that are "over the top."  Using techniques that are just impossible.  (Jet Li comes to mind real quick.)  No matter what level of common sense most people have, I still have friends who have watched the Matrix films and ask, "Can you do that?"

It's quite annoying.


----------



## Brother John (Nov 18, 2003)

Only real...



Your brother
John


----------



## Gotkenpo? (Nov 28, 2003)

ok, you guys have got to get "Tough and Deadly", and "Back in Action"

They star billy blanks and roddy piper (the wrestler, that's right).  Cheesiest cheese ever.


----------



## Randy Strausbaugh (Nov 28, 2003)

A lot has to do with how the fight scene was shot.  For instance, in "The Perfect Weapon" where Jeff Speakman takes on the would-be muggers.  Just a few hand techs, but the way it's shot, I go "Damn!" every time I see it.  

And if you want cheesy movies, try "Fist of Fear, Touch of Death" or "Riki-Oh: The Story of Ricky".


----------



## someguy (Dec 2, 2003)

My friends ask me if I can do the stuff in the matrix but only as a joke.
My response is get real I can only do the stuff in Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon


----------



## psi_radar (Dec 2, 2003)

My favorite fight scene lacks any technical merit whatsoever, it's just an over-the-top street fight--Keith David and Rowdy Roddy Piper in John Carpenter's "They Live." It went on FOREVER, the two just beating the living crap out of each other. "South Park" used this as a model for their "cripple fight" scene, which  was pretty damn funny though excrutiatingly politically incorrect. 

Other than that, I prefer the realistic stuff. Though I didn't like the movie much beside this scene, Benny the Jet's and John Cusack's fight scene in Grosse Point Blank was down and dirty. Raging Bull had some good stuff too.


----------



## 2fisted (Dec 2, 2003)

I'm a big fan of the fighting in the Bourne Identity.   I also like seeing old Chan flicks and Gordon Liu flicks.   I can't STAND the wire stuff.  Just my opinion though.  :asian:


----------



## hardheadjarhead (Dec 2, 2003)

Hey...John Wayne had his moments.

The fight in "The Quiet Man" was a classic.  I loved that.

Then there's that scene where he kicked a guy in the chops in "The Man Who Shot Liberty Valence".  

Then there was that sucker punch he whacked Bruce Dern with in "The Cowboys."




Steve


----------



## Randy Strausbaugh (Dec 4, 2003)

> _Originally posted by hardheadjarhead _
> *Hey...John Wayne had his moments.
> 
> The fight in "The Quiet Man" was a classic.  I loved that.
> ...


Or when he backhanded George Kennedy across the face with the pick handle in "The Sons of Katie Elder".


----------



## KenpoTess (Dec 11, 2003)

Gee I'm totally disallusioned now.. I thought everyone in movies were some superpower.. now my illusions are dashed *snickers*


----------



## hardheadjarhead (Dec 11, 2003)

Wait a minute, Tess...what are you saying?  Are you saying that these movie fights aren't REAL?  That John Wayne choreographed his fights?

Oh, and I suppose WWF is FAKE, then?  

The next thing you're going to tell me is that the bottles the bad guys would hit the Duke with were made out of specially spun sugar or something.

Yeah, right.



Steve


----------



## KenpoTess (Dec 11, 2003)

ok Steve .. I'm changing my mind.. cuz that's my perogative et al *chortles*
Hey  Jackie Chan does his own stunts.. so it's all good


----------



## rmcrobertson (Dec 11, 2003)

I agree about, "They Live." Yikes. And "Ghosts of Mars," is nearly as bad, especially if you listen to Henstridge talking about getting the crap kicked out of her. That Jeff Imada...

However, a recent episode of, "Angel," featured Angel and Spike beating the living hell out of each other in pretty-nearly-as-nasty a fashion for about twenty minutes...and I gotta catch up with the episode with the demon-fighting luchadores.


----------



## hardheadjarhead (Dec 12, 2003)

> ok Steve .. I'm changing my mind..




Thank goodness.  Thou art redeemed.

For a minute there I was worried you'd get on Santa's naughty list.

On that note...why hasn't there ever been a "Kung Fu Santa" film?  


Steve


----------



## psi_radar (Dec 12, 2003)

> On that note...why hasn't there ever been a "Kung Fu Santa" film?



I'm gonna pitch that treatment if you don't. Sounds like a sure moneymaker  Actually, I'm only half-joking.


----------



## KenpoTess (Dec 12, 2003)

> _Originally posted by hardheadjarhead _
> *Thank goodness.  Thou art redeemed.
> 
> For a minute there I was worried you'd get on Santa's naughty list.
> ...



*wipes the sweat from my brow... whew.. that was a close one *

Gee Santa Kung Fu... *shudders at the visual*


----------



## hardheadjarhead (Dec 13, 2003)

> wipes the sweat from my brow... whew.. that was a close one



I was THIS close to calling the Commandant of the Marine Corps and telling him of your heresy.  You've recanted.  Thou art saved.  Flights of Angels shall not descend on thy abode with GPS Guided Bomb Units.

One must never trifle with the image of The Duke.  



> Gee Santa Kung Fu... *shudders at the visual*



I envision this blurb on the back of the video (as if it would EVER make it to theaters):

*When a ragtag group of bikers led by Snake (Stikequest IV's Rory Dellacqua) descend on the little town of Pleasantville, all Hell breaks loose.  Only ONE MAN CAN STOP THEM.  He's Kung Fu Santa (Ninja Revenge III and !V' and Thunder Fist's Berk Bedstead).  With the help of the beautiful Bethany (Crimes of Passion , Talk Dirty to Me IX's Tonda Willing), Santa sets out to help the nice and kick some naughty butt!  Its non-stop Christmas action like you've never seen before!

"Heart pounding, rip-roaring suspense!"
          -WMAC T.V., Gauley Bridge, West Virginia

"Explosive action packed drama..."
          -Rex Weidenbenner, Honcho  magazine

"I was on the edge of my seat the whole time...."
          -Aaron Tripp, Macon County Daily Telegraph, Simpson, Georgia.*


----------



## psi_radar (Dec 15, 2003)

I see Jackie Chan's next buddy vehicle.

I mean, think of all the visual sight gag material. Santa scaling a wall. Jackie/Santa getting dragged by a team of reindeer through snowbanks "oh no please nice reindeer stop now please. Stop Donner, noooo!" Jackie/santa working with buddy/dry humor straight guy Luke Wilson (hasn't used him yet), undercover cop, to foil a smuggling ring that stuffs plastic candy canes with black tar heroin. 

"Laughs and action!" 

--Tim Jacobs, The Gardners Chronicle

"Non-stop Kung fu action! Luke Wilson hasn't been this funny since "Old School!"

--Zimmer Snowden, The Ogden Witness

I'm telling you, it's gold.


----------



## Jmh7331 (Dec 15, 2003)

Have you ever gone back and watched fight scenes that you saw BEFORE you started MA's training?  A lot of the stuff you thought was awesome now looks cheesy.  Some of it is still awesome though! - I like Jet Li's old stuff.


----------



## Seig (Dec 16, 2003)

Please!  Everyone knows Santa does Kenpo........


----------



## MartialArtsChic (Dec 16, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Seig _
> *Please!  Everyone knows Santa does Kenpo........ *




NOT!!  Santa does Combat Hapkido.  He told me.


----------



## Randy Strausbaugh (Dec 16, 2003)

Seig's right! Santa _does_  practice Kenpo.  You want proof?
1. Santa sports the famous "Kenpo Spread" so many of us have developed over the years.
2. Santa requires quick Kenpo hands in order to pass out presents.  Doesn't need quick feet- the reindeer do most of the legwork.
3. Santa's used to working with lists of names.  Self defense techs are no problem for him.
4. He's on lots of videos.
5. In malls all over the country, there are people claiming to be the "real" Santa.

Sorry, MartialArtsChic.  The Clausmeister was just funnin' you.  You know what a jolly old elf he can be.  He's Kenpo through and through.


----------



## hardheadjarhead (Dec 16, 2003)

A very strong argument for Santa doing Kenpo...however, I think he cross trains.

He has his own weapons style, derived from Kali, called "Twin Candy Canes of Death."

A low attack called "Grabbing Twin Chestnuts and Throwing into Open Fire."  Another groin attack is called "Jingling The Bells."

A face shot called "Jack Frost Ripping Off Your Nose."

A Progressive Indirect Attack called "Over the River and Through The Woods."

A fast percussive method (clearly taken from Kenpo) called "Our Finest Gifts We Bring, Pah Rumpa Pum Pum".

It really would make a great movie with Jackie Chan.



Steve


----------

