# Inosanto and Wong hated each other!



## pinklady6000

Yep! This is it. The divide of JKD is at the root of these two men. You can see it in the bruce lee fighting series, the pictures tell a thousand words. Astrologically inosanto is a sun sign Leo and Wong is a sun sign Scorpio. These signs hate each other.


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## Tez3

I'm Scorpio and I don't hate Leos, that would be ridiculous.


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## Juany118

Actually I think this article sums up the issues well. JKD ‘Concepts’ vs. ‘Original’ JKD.  The issue was, and is, never really Inosanto v Wong.  Heck Inosanto originally didn't want to teach JKD.  The name JKD concepts even came from the fact that he wasn't going to teach JKD at his seminars but only the foundational concepts.

The rivalry, imo was created by their students.  In cases like this it is usually that the followers and not the leaders cause the problems because the leaders, usually, don't have anything to prove.


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## Th0mas

pinklady6000 said:


> Astrologically inosanto is a sun sign Leo and Wong is a sun sign Scorpio. These signs hate each other.


... And I find that if my shakras aren't aligned, I don't get on with anyone.


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## Tony Dismukes

I'm a Gemini. Who am I supposed to hate? I wouldn't want to find out I've been getting along with someone I'm supposed to detest. It would be such a faux pas.


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## pinklady6000

Th0mas said:


> ... And I find that if my shakras aren't aligned, I don't get on with anyone.



Martial art aligns your shakras.


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## crazydiamond

_"Wasted away again in Margaritaville,
Searchin' for my lost shaker of salt.
Some people claim that there's a woman to blame,
But I know it's nobody's fault"_


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## pinklady6000

Tony Dismukes said:


> I'm a Gemini. Who am I supposed to hate? I wouldn't want to find out I've been getting along with someone I'm supposed to detest. It would be such a faux pas.


Bruce Lee was a sagitaurius, opposite of gemini. He would kick your ***!


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## Tony Dismukes

pinklady6000 said:


> Bruce Lee was a sagitaurius, opposite of gemini. He would kick your ***!


Okay, who on this board is a Sagittarius? I'm calling you out as the low-life, scum-sucking churls that you obviously are!


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## Flying Crane

I'm a Taurus and I hate everybody.  I don't know if I am supposed to, but I do.  I'm an equal opportunity hater.


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## pinklady6000

Juany118 said:


> Actually I think this article sums up the issues well. JKD ‘Concepts’ vs. ‘Original’ JKD.  The issue was, and is, never really Inosanto v Wong.  Heck Inosanto originally didn't want to teach JKD.  The name JKD concepts even came from the fact that he wasn't going to teach JKD at his seminars but only the foundational concepts.
> 
> The rivalry, imo was created by their students.  In cases like this it is usually that the followers and not the leaders cause the problems because the leaders, usually, don't have anything to prove.



Interesting article, written by Chris Kent.



After the grief of Bruce Lee’s death, Inosanto had the dilemma of promising to not commercialise JKD and keep his own career of teaching martial art. He opened the inosanto academy to teach the new martial art of Kali to the masses. As the article explains: people wanted the JKD in his seminars and not the kali stuff he was researching at the time. So he gave JKD seminars riding on the wave of post Bruce Lee fame.

At the time he met Bruce Lee 1964, he had no knowledge of kali at that time, but had a kempo blackbelt. In his own “definitive Inosanto” DVD’s he said this as much. After the closer of Bruce Lee’s schools (1967?) He was learning kali up to Lee’s death in 1973.

I think that after Lee’s death he believed that Kali, seliat and FMA were superior to JKD and the name: JKD-concept was born.


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## pinklady6000

Tony Dismukes said:


> Okay, who on this board is a Sagittarius? I'm calling you out as the low-life, scum-sucking churls that you obviously are!



Ouch!


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## pinklady6000

Flying Crane said:


> I'm a Taurus and I hate everybody.  I don't know if I am supposed to, but I do.  I'm an equal opportunity hater.


Sex, beer and potatos... that is what Taurus like.


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## Juany118

pinklady6000 said:


> Interesting article, written by Chris Kent.
> 
> 
> 
> After the grief of Bruce Lee’s death, Inosanto had the dilemma of promising to not commercialise JKD and keep his own career of teaching martial art. He opened the inosanto academy to teach the new martial art of Kali to the masses. As the article explains: people wanted the JKD in his seminars and not the kali stuff he was researching at the time. So he gave JKD seminars riding on the wave of post Bruce Lee fame.
> 
> At the time he met Bruce Lee 1964, he had no knowledge of kali at that time, but had a kempo blackbelt. In his own “definitive Inosanto” DVD’s he said this as much. After the closer of Bruce Lee’s schools (1967?) He was learning kali up to Lee’s death in 1973.
> 
> I think that after Lee’s death he believed that Kali, seliat and FMA were superior to JKD and the name: JKD-concept was born.




I don't think he did.  As a matter of fact he modeled his Lacoste-Inosanto Kali after the JKD concept to the point some call it "JKD-Kali." His Kali is actually a combination of 26 different original sources, among them different schools of FMA, Kuntao (the Chinese Kung Fu of the Chinese populations of SE Asia) and Silat among others.  He even refers to it as a "mixed martial art concept as opposed to the mixed martial art sport."  I study both L-I Kali and Wing Chun, which is basically the foundation of JKD.  I have to concur with the article when it says that Kali, on its face, is easier than Wing Chun.  To really Master Kali is as difficult, don't get me wrong, but it is easier to get a basic level of competence.  The main reason for this is that there was so much cross pollination between the arts in that region via trade and conquest anyway that there were similarities before he began to create his system, vs Bruce Lee's JKD that takes everything from European fencing footwork to Savate, Western Boxing and then Asian styles.


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## Red Sun

pinklady6000 said:


> Sex, beer and potatos... that is what Taurus like.



So *thats* where i get it from~


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## Xue Sheng

Frankly I think Ted Wong would have cared more about this...







than this...






That is if he cared anything about it at all.

And

Dan Inosanto, based on the Chinese Zodiac is a Rat
Ted Wong based on the Chinese Zodiac is a Ox

And Rat and an Ox is a good match in the Chinese Zodiac


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## pinklady6000

Juany118 said:


> I don't think he did.  As a matter of fact he modeled his Lacoste-Inosanto Kali after the JKD concept to the point some call it "JKD-Kali." His Kali is actually a combination of 26 different original sources, among them different schools of FMA, Kuntao (the Chinese Kung Fu of the Chinese populations of SE Asia) and Silat among others.  He even refers to it as a "mixed martial art concept as opposed to the mixed martial art sport."  I study both L-I Kali and Wing Chun, which is basically the foundation of JKD.  I have to concur with the article when it says that Kali, on its face, is easier than Wing Chun.  To really Master Kali is as difficult, don't get me wrong, but it is easier to get a basic level of competence.  The main reason for this is that there was so much cross pollination between the arts in that region via trade and conquest anyway that there were similarities before he began to create his system, vs Bruce Lee's JKD that takes everything from European fencing footwork to Savate, Western Boxing and then Asian styles.



Lacoste-Inosanto Kali?! This is not JKD is it. It is a new style created by Inosanto.


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## Juany118

pinklady6000 said:


> Lacoste-Inosanto Kali?! This is not JKD is it. It is a new style created by Inosanto.



The Kali Guro Dan teaches in his seminars is a creation of his own using the principles Bruce Lee used to create JKD.  Its foundation is in the Filipino Martial Arts but, as with JKD, it incorporates techniques from other MAs into it.  That is why some refer to it as "JKD-Kali" because it uses the same principle that one should not be tied down to an individual style.


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## pinklady6000

Xue Sheng said:


> Frankly I think Ted Wong would have cared more about this...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> than this...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is if he cared anything about it at all.
> 
> And
> 
> Dan Inosanto, based on the Chinese Zodiac is a Rat
> Ted Wong based on the Chinese Zodiac is a Ox
> 
> And Rat and an Ox is a good match in the Chinese Zodiac


 
If Lee was born in 1940: that makes him a DRAGON!


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## Chris Parker

Tony Dismukes said:


> Okay, who on this board is a Sagittarius? I'm calling you out as the low-life, scum-sucking churls that you obviously are!



Me.

Care to rephrase…? (obligatory smilie, if I used such contrivances…)


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## Tony Dismukes

Chris Parker said:


> Me.


Well, obviously I'm going to have to re-evaluate everything you've ever posted on this board. Everybody knows Sagittarians are inherently untrustworthy. I'll have to go through your posts later and change all my "likes" to "dislikes."

After all, our destinies are in the stars and pinklady6000 says that we are born to be enemies. She wouldn't lie about something like that, would she?


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## pinklady6000

Ted wong became infurated with the Inosanto style repersenting JKD that he had to come out of retirement to educate the whole world with the correct represented JKD.


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## Chris Parker

Tony Dismukes said:


> Well, obviously I'm going to have to re-evaluate everything you've ever posted on this board. Everybody knows Sagittarians are inherently untrustworthy. I'll have to go through your posts later and change all my "likes" to "dislikes."
> 
> After all, our destinies are in the stars and pinklady6000 says that we are born to be enemies. She wouldn't lie about something like that, would she?



Well, I'm not about to speculate as to the motivations and beliefs of someone I haven't done a complete and exhaustive astrological chart for… so…


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## pinklady6000

Tony Dismukes said:


> Well, obviously I'm going to have to re-evaluate everything you've ever posted on this board. Everybody knows Sagittarians are inherently untrustworthy. I'll have to go through your posts later and change all my "likes" to "dislikes."
> 
> After all, our destinies are in the stars and pinklady6000 says that we are born to be enemies. She wouldn't lie about something like that, would she?


No I did not. I said Lee would kick that catapillar off your top lip.


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## Chris Parker

Just for the record, my view of Bruce Lee is that he was an immensely talented, highly charismatic guy… just rather  unschooled, and lucky to have the natural talent (and unnatural drive) that he had. In terms of his approach, though? Hardly revolutionary, to my mind… he seemed to more "rediscover" things well known to others… and perhaps would have been taught exactly that if he had continued being a student a bit longer… 

As far as him kicking anyone's butt, eh, who cares? The guy's dead… I'm pretty sure either Tony or I could take him pretty easily now… everything else is speculation, circumspect at best, guess work, and fanboy fantasy.


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## Tony Dismukes

Chris Parker said:


> The guy's dead… I'm pretty sure either Tony or I could take him pretty easily now…


That depends. Is he coming back as a skeleton, a zombie, a vampire, or a lich? The first two options I'm pretty certain I can handle, but I don't know whether my weapons have the necessary enchantments to manage the latter two.


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## pinklady6000

Tony Dismukes said:


> That depends. Is he coming back as a skeleton, a zombie, a vampire, or a lich? The first two options I'm pretty certain I can handle, but I don't know whether my weapons have the necessary enchantments to manage the latter two.



He is coming back as a hurricane as he is spinning so fast in his grave.


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## Chris Parker

Ah, you're adorable… you do realise that, at twice your age, Bruce was dead before even I was born… where you're concerned, you were born decades later… so I gotta ask… what actually makes you think you're in any position to make accurate and authentic statements here, or that you have the first clue what Bruce would or wouldn't think? Before you answer, I heartily recommend you remember and recognise that this forum includes people who were training when Bruce was alive… some in very close proximity… and have trained with (and under) people who actually knew Bruce… so be careful just how much you want to put yourself out as someone who has any real knowledge here…


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## Tez3

Is this thread for real anyway? It seems light on actual martial arts.


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## Chris Parker

It's gossip! The ultimate in martial arts!


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## Tez3

Chris Parker said:


> It's gossip! The ultimate in martial arts!



and brain washing according to the lady on her new thread. Mmm interesting. An appeal to the administers regarding JKD


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## pinklady6000

Chris Parker said:


> Ah, you're adorable… you do realise that, at twice your age, Bruce was dead before even I was born… where you're concerned, you were born decades later… so I gotta ask… what actually makes you think you're in any position to make accurate and authentic statements here, or that you have the first clue what Bruce would or wouldn't think? Before you answer, I heartily recommend you remember and recognise that this forum includes people who were training when Bruce was alive… some in very close proximity… and have trained with (and under) people who actually knew Bruce… so be careful just how much you want to put yourself out as someone who has any real knowledge here…



Ah! Here we go! The police state interagation of my training history, linage, who's name do you rub shoulders with. to put me in my place, typical of a classical martial art cult.


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## Gerry Seymour

pinklady6000 said:


> Ah! Here we go! The police state interagation of my training history, linage, who's name do you rub shoulders with. to put me in my place, typical of a classical martial art cult.


Ah, here we go, the "police state" argument to avoid recognizing that you are out of your depth with some of these folks.


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## Chris Parker

pinklady6000 said:


> Ah! Here we go! The police state interagation of my training history, linage, who's name do you rub shoulders with. to put me in my place, typical of a classical martial art cult.



Kid, you have missed everything said… you're 20 years old. You're seemingly infatuated with Bruce. That's all cool… but recognise we've been here and done that for a lot longer. 

And, for the record, I am in no way part of any "cult" when it comes to this area… I find JKD interesting, sure, but it's not part of my journey. My caution was simply to get you to take a deep breath, look around, and recognise how you are coming across… because it's not particularly healthy or accurate.


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## Xue Sheng

Chris Parker said:


> Ah, you're adorable… you do realise that, at twice your age, Bruce was dead before even I was born…



Well that COMPLETELY changes my view of all your posts.... you are simply to young to know that much...although I do not have leather jackets older than you, I do believe I have a couple books older than you..... and I bravely say this ...since you are over 10.000 miles from me  

I trained with a student of Jerry Poteet, talked with students of Ted Wong and Dan Inosanto who knew I trained in the Poteet line, and I have never heard anything about them hating each other. And Ted Wong did not need to come out of retirement to teach what Bruce taught, Poteet, Kimura and Glover pretty much already were.

And I am far from an expert on JKD, I just trained it briefly, but if my teacher did not move about 700 miles south, I would have trained longer

And as a note, I do have jackets, not just leather ones, older than pinklady6000...and they still fit me..and to tell you the truth, no one is more surprised than me when it comes to that ..although my first leather jacket that is darn close to your age...no longer fits me


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## Chris Parker

Hmm… who were you addressing there, Xue…? Myself, or the young lady who believes herself the saviour of JKD here…?


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## Xue Sheng

Chris Parker said:


> Hmm… who were you addressing there, Xue…? Myself, or the young lady who believes herself the saviour of JKD here…?



Well, the first bit pre  is you.... after that is to all... the last bit pre 2nd  is to the saviour of JKD and the last bit pre  is again to you...... I have no leather jackets older than you, but one is close and surprisingly I still have it..but it no longer fits.... however now that I think about it, I still have my Jujutsu GI and I had that when Bruce Lee was still alive....so it is older than you are.... but again...is doesn't fit either.... I have a whole lot of things older than her....much of it I still wear....


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## Chris Parker

Ha, cool… yeah, I don't tend to show my age often… when asked, I usually say I'm a very (very!) experienced 24 year old…


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## Xue Sheng

I generally tell them I am 20....for the second time...and well on my way to the 3rd


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## Chris Parker

pinklady6000 said:


> If Lee was born in 1940: that makes him a DRAGON!



Well… yeah. Did you think you discovered that by yourself? 

For the record, Bruce was a Sagittarius, as am I. Bruce was a Dragon, as am I. Hmm… am I Bruce?


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## pinklady6000

Xue Sheng said:


> Well, the first bit pre  is you.... after that is to all... the last bit pre 2nd  is to the saviour of JKD and the last bit pre  is again to you...... I have no leather jackets older than you, but one is close and surprisingly I still have it..but it no longer fits.... however now that I think about it, I still have my Jujutsu GI and I had that when Bruce Lee was still alive....so it is older than you are.... but again...is doesn't fit either.... I have a whole lot of things older than her....much of it I still wear....



Xue, that old jacket that doesn't fit, one can cut it up and make some Lady Gaga pants and bra outfits - you will look real cool!


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## Buka

Xue Sheng said:


> Frankly I think Ted Wong would have cared more about this...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> than this...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is if he cared anything about it at all.
> 
> And
> 
> Dan Inosanto, based on the Chinese Zodiac is a Rat
> Ted Wong based on the Chinese Zodiac is a Ox
> 
> And Rat and an Ox is a good match in the Chinese Zodiac



It has always been the only sign I recognize. I am the rabbit.






Now, please, someone put a pancake on my head where it belongs.


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## KangTsai

Why are you people discussing horoscopes on a martial arts board?


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## pinklady6000

KangTsai said:


> Why are you people discussing horoscopes on a martial arts board?


because it is relevant.


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## Chris Parker

Er… no, it's not.


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## Pat M

Tony Dismukes said:


> Okay, who on this board is a Sagittarius? I'm calling you out as the low-life, scum-sucking churls that you obviously are!



That comment really offends me Tony and think we should sit down and discuss it over many beers.
(you are just to far away unfortunately)
Who should I hate?


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## Charlemagne

pinklady6000 said:


> He opened the inosanto academy to teach the new martial art of Kali to the masses.



Kali was not new.


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## Gerry Seymour

pinklady6000 said:


> because it is relevant.


So, somehow, astrology (which has plenty of evidence of being entirely without merit) is more relevant to a JKD forum than an art with a relationship to JKD? You've missed something in your logic. The logic, mostly.


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## Tez3

She's just added MT to the list of sites she's banned from.


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## Kickboxer101

KangTsai said:


> Why are you people discussing horoscopes on a martial arts board?



Well it's kind of important when I take a good hit in sparring I'm sometimes seeing stars guess it'd be nice to know they mean while staggering around trying to not get knocked out lol


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## Juany118

Tez3 said:


> She's just added MT to the list of sites she's banned from.



What annoys me is I am still trying to figure out, were they a troll or were they really simply that ignorant.  I hate unanswered questions


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## Tony Dismukes

Juany118 said:


> What annoys me is I am still trying to figure out, were they a troll or were they really simply that ignorant.  I hate unanswered questions


I formulated a rule a couple of years back while dealing with another problematic forum contributor:

"Any sufficiently advanced Dunning-Kruger effect is indistinguishable from trolling."


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## Flatfish

Juany118 said:


> What annoys me is I am still trying to figure out, were they a troll or were they really simply that ignorant.  I hate unanswered questions



The answer is "Yes"


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## Juany118

Tony Dismukes said:


> I formulated a rule a couple of years back while dealing with another problematic forum contributor:
> 
> "Any sufficiently advanced Dunning-Kruger effect is indistinguishable from trolling."



LOL.  I actually referenced the Dunning-Kruger effect a couple weeks ago at work.  We were talking about an officer a few years ago who didn't make probation.  Everyone in the room, except the Department's Clinical Social Worker/victim's advocate looked at me like I just spoke in Mandarin.


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## Xue Sheng

Juany118 said:


> LOL.  I actually referenced the Dunning-Kruger effect a couple weeks ago at work.  We were talking about an officer a few years ago who didn't make probation.  Everyone in the room, except the Department's Clinical Social Worker/victim's advocate looked at me like I just spoke in Mandarin.



NAH! I think this might be the Mandarin Dá kè xiàoyìng


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## wingchun100

This thread proves that some people have too much time on their hands...not those who replied necessarily, but definitely the OP...who I believe has been booted.


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