# Sharing push hand practise video of students



## internalpowerhk (Apr 9, 2016)




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## internalpowerhk (Apr 9, 2016)

Posting some students who practice hand for 2 years (first video)and 6 months (second one). Kindly advise if you have some advise for them for improvement


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## Zeny (Apr 9, 2016)

Thanks, which one is you?

Where is this?


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## internalpowerhk (Apr 9, 2016)

Zeny said:


> Thanks, which one is you?
> 
> Where is this?


Hi Zeny, I am the one in the 1st video who wear glasses. Nice to meet you here


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## Zeny (Apr 9, 2016)

Nice to meet you too, thanks again for sharing


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## Zeny (Apr 10, 2016)

I have watched your videos a few times. This is my constructive comment:

1) i like that your movements are relaxed

2) i like that you are not using force against force

3) i like that you have a variety of pushes

4) your partner seems to be overly compliant and waiting for you to execute your pushes on him

5) i would like to see your partner execute an unrehearsed push on you and you counter him

6) i would like to see more attention paid on the 'crossing hand' part. You seem to be focusing mostly on the final move, i.e. the push

7) i would like to see you 'give up your own movement' and follow your partner. You seem to be doing your own movements rather than responding to your partner's movements

My 2 cents, cheers.


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## internalpowerhk (Apr 11, 2016)

Zeny said:


> I have watched your videos a few times. This is my constructive comment:
> 
> 1) i like that your movements are relaxed
> 
> ...


Thanks for your advise in such detail way. ^ ^


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## internalpowerhk (Apr 11, 2016)

A little bit more to share, hope you will enjoy


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## JowGaWolf (Apr 11, 2016)

Is there any reason why the stances are high and narrow?


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## Xue Sheng (Apr 11, 2016)

internalpowerhk said:


> A little bit more to share, hope you will enjoy



Is this Wu (Hao) 武氏?

My second guess would be Sun (孫氏), but I think it might be Wu (Hao) 武氏

I see Yang (楊氏) and Chen (陳氏) there and that says Wu (Hao) 武氏 to me, but Sun (孫氏) comes from Wu (Hao) 武氏 so I could be wrong.


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## Zeny (Apr 11, 2016)

Thanks for the new videos!

These two new videos show nice counters from the person being pushed.

I would like to see the person pushing to have more relaxed arms.

And when you counter, i would like to see the upper body not bent forward.


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## Zeny (Apr 11, 2016)

JowGaWolf said:


> Is there any reason why the stances are high and narrow?



My push hands stances are also high and narrow. It is the same stance i will use if i were to spar.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Apr 11, 2016)

JowGaWolf said:


> Is there any reason why the stances are high and narrow?


I have the same concern as well. You should not give your opponent any chance to be able to attack both of your legs at the same time.

When your opponent attacks you with

- "single leg", you will still have counters.
- "double legs", you will have no counter.

Also a narrow stance will give your opponent an opportunity to

- use under hook below your right shoulder,
- push your body to your left, and
- sweeps your left leg to your right at the same time.

A wider stance won't give your opportunity that opportunity.


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## JowGaWolf (Apr 12, 2016)

Keep in mind that you can only retreat as far as your rear leg.  I also don't think it will be as easy to push each other with a wider stance. A wider stance may shed some light on the effectiveness of your technique.


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## Zeny (Apr 12, 2016)

JowGaWolf said:


> Keep in mind that you can only retreat as far as your rear leg.  I also don't think it will be as easy to push each other with a wider stance. A wider stance may shed some light on the effectiveness of your technique.



Thanks, do you have a pic or photo to show what is the optimum width?


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## Kung Fu Wang (Apr 12, 2016)

Zeny said:


> Thanks, do you have a pic or photo to show what is the optimum width?


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## ChenAn (Apr 12, 2016)

Kung Fu Wang said:


>



In which universe wide stances are optimal? All Chen folks I  have ever met never used them in free push-hands because they are impractical


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## mograph (Apr 12, 2016)

One example of push hands _practice_.


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## JowGaWolf (Apr 12, 2016)

Zeny said:


> Thanks, do you have a pic or photo to show what is the optimum width?


The width of your stance will vary depending on what you are dealing with, but any stance that less than shoulders width apart will put you in serious trouble.  If you are dealing with someone that's a wrestler, Judo, or BJJ practitioner, then you  want to take a much wider stance stance, than you would someone that only strikes. The narrow goat stance that is done in practice is definitely not the stance that you want for most sparring practice and never for real fighting situations. 

The guy in red is Chen Tai Chi.  Forget about everything else and watch only the legs and that will give you an idea of how the width changes.


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## JowGaWolf (Apr 12, 2016)

ChenAn said:


> In which universe wide stances are optimal? All Chen folks I  have ever met never used them in free push-hands because they are impractical


Wide stances aren't impractical.  It's the super wide stances that we see wushu performers use that's impractical.  They are good for building leg strength but that's about it.
This guy does Chen Tai Chi and you can see him use a narrow stance.  His narrow stance is an indication that he's not concerned about the big guys ability.





Here's a video of him. Notice his stance goes between shoulder width and wide depending on what is happening.





In his competition video that I posted above, he's using a wide stance and has abandoned the narrow shoulder width stance. You can also see how that wide stance helps him to move quickly and avoid sweeps.


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## ChenAn (Apr 12, 2016)

I pushed with Chen Ziqiang as well.There are no wide stances of the videos. William the guy in the last video (student of Chen Qingzhou) , uses very wide stances only for practice. Now to be technically correct CMA doesn't have "stances" CMA has steps "bu". We westerners call them "stances" because we get use to this terminology.

The step in my line vary depending on circumstances. You can step "in" or "out" different length depending on circumstances. One in important thing to highlight here the  step is alive not fixed. Because of the nature of  my branch Chen body method, wide stances deprive us of very important functionally, so they are  used only training or rare occasions. 

Also it's posible to sweep or trap any length of step if one knows "how"


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## Zeny (Apr 13, 2016)

I'm inclined to agree with jowgawolf on this one.

When i do push hands i mostly use high and narrow stances, but we only use arms and not legs (like boxing). If kicks and leg sweeps are agreed to be used, our stance may well change.

The video below is a good example of a good stance for sparring (as opposed to push hands) purposes. This is a realistic fight between a striker and a grappler, and both use wider than shoulder width stances.


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## JowGaWolf (Apr 13, 2016)

Zeny said:


> When i do push hands i mostly use high and narrow stances, but we only use arms and not legs (like boxing). If kicks and leg sweeps are agreed to be used, our stance may well change.


It'll definitely change without question. I use feet, legs, and knees when I do push hands. 

thought you might guys might light this video.  Watch their feet and legs





Here's a better video that shows some attempted sweeps.


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## Zeny (Apr 13, 2016)

I think the issue here is the different ways that people do "push hands".

For me and perhaps also the OP, our push hands is merely to practise sticking, sensitivity, relaxation, not fighting force with force etc. In this manner of push hands, tall and narrow stances are alright.

But in wrestling (CZQ) style push hands, surely the stance would need to be adjusted.


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## internalpowerhk (Apr 13, 2016)

Xue Sheng said:


> Is this Wu (Hao) 武氏?
> 
> My second guess would be Sun (孫氏), but I think it might be Wu (Hao) 武氏
> 
> I see Yang (楊氏) and Chen (陳氏) there and that says Wu (Hao) 武氏 to me, but Sun (孫氏) comes from Wu (Hao) 武氏 so I could be wrong.




Yes, we practise Wu (Hao) 武氏


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## internalpowerhk (Apr 13, 2016)

Zeny said:


> My push hands stances are also high and narrow. It is the same stance i will use if i were to spar.



Cannot  agree any more, , it is more practical in spar


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## Pittsburgh Arnis (May 7, 2016)

internalpowerhk said:


> Yes, we practise Wu (Hao) 武氏


Here is an example of Wu style push hands from Beijing.


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## Pittsburgh Arnis (May 7, 2016)

internalpowerhk said:


> Yes, we practise Wu (Hao) 武氏


I found another example of Wu style that looks interesting.


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## Xue Sheng (May 8, 2016)

Pittsburgh Arnis said:


> Here is an example of Wu style push hands from Beijing.



Thanks you, that is Wu (吳氏) style, not Wu/Hao (武氏). But you did post some great teachers of Wu style.


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