# So Proud



## ppko (Dec 9, 2004)

I just wanted to tell everyone how proud of my students that I am (even without this story I am still very proud with them), both of my students got there first taste of the light touch Knock-out.  Tony (Xequat whom has been with me for a little while now), and Andrew (he is not on this board but is one of my students) got to knock each other out, as it makes me feel great as an instructor (this is my first school so I am sure this won't be as big of a deal after a while or maybe it will), and it makes me very happy for my students now they know they can do it the sky is the limit.


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## Zepp (Dec 9, 2004)

Congrats to Xequat, Andrew and yourself.

One question though: light touch knockout?  :idunno:


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## Blooming Lotus (Dec 9, 2004)

That is extremly cool!!  I actually had a bit of a student success story myself last night, when one of my 12 yr olds who I've been working with for about 4 yrs or so, told me he went to sisters and was being bullied by this 24 yr old boyfriend of hers , and when it broke off into the face off he totally whooped his butt!!  He was proud of his skill  and just quietly, having seen the guy personally and noting his size back then , I got a bit of smile on myself  

Gotta love a good set of techs artyon: 

Blooming Lotus


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## ShotoSan (Dec 9, 2004)

/congrats

It feels good to have students, doesnt it?


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## MJS (Dec 10, 2004)

Please keep the discussion friendly and on track.  If someone is not interested in hearing anothers post, there is an ignore feature on everyones profile.

Thank you.

Mike


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## OUMoose (Dec 10, 2004)

ppko said:
			
		

> I just wanted to tell everyone how proud of my students that I am (even without this story I am still very proud with them), both of my students got there first taste of the light touch Knock-out.  Tony (Xequat whom has been with me for a little while now), and Andrew (he is not on this board but is one of my students) got to knock each other out, as it makes me feel great as an instructor (this is my first school so I am sure this won't be as big of a deal after a while or maybe it will), and it makes me very happy for my students now they know they can do it the sky is the limit.



 :asian:

Question:  I'm kind of curious as well.  What's a "light touch" knockout?


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## ppko (Dec 10, 2004)

Zepp said:
			
		

> Congrats to Xequat, Andrew and yourself.
> 
> One question though: light touch knockout? :idunno:


I am in DKI and we teach pressure point fighting, when doing this if it is taught correctly you are able to KO someone with a light strike.


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## OUMoose (Dec 10, 2004)

ppko said:
			
		

> I am in DKI and we teach pressure point fighting, when doing this if it is taught correctly you are able to KO someone with a light strike.



Ahh!  Very interesting!


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## ppko (Dec 10, 2004)

ShotoSan said:
			
		

> /congrats
> 
> It feels good to have students, doesnt it?


Yes it does, these are not only students but family to me.


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## ppko (Dec 10, 2004)

I hope that this thread does not turn into an argument thread I would like to make it into a success with your students thread, so if anyone else has any success stories please post them.


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## ppko (Dec 10, 2004)

Blooming Lotus said:
			
		

> That is extremly cool!! I actually had a bit of a student success story myself last night, when one of my 12 yr olds who I've been working with for about 4 yrs or so, told me he went to sisters and was being bullied by this 24 yr old boyfriend of hers , and when it broke off into the face off he totally whooped his butt!! He was proud of his skill and just quietly, having seen the guy personally and noting his size back then , I got a bit of smile on myself
> 
> Gotta love a good set of techs artyon:
> 
> Blooming Lotus


Congrats


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## TigerWoman (Dec 10, 2004)

ppko said:
			
		

> I just wanted to tell everyone how proud of my students that I am (even without this story I am still very proud with them), both of my students got there first taste of the light touch Knock-out.  Tony (Xequat whom has been with me for a little while now), and Andrew (he is not on this board but is one of my students) got to knock each other out, as it makes me feel great as an instructor (this is my first school so I am sure this won't be as big of a deal after a while or maybe it will), and it makes me very happy for my students now they know they can do it the sky is the limit.



Well, I'm glad they experienced it without any damage.  Unfortunately, I've witnessed light knockouts that had some serious consequences so I wouldn't go looking for them. 

Also, please keep this on topic.  TW


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## RRouuselot (Dec 10, 2004)

TigerWoman said:
			
		

> Well, I'm glad they experienced it without any damage.  Unfortunately, I've witnessed light knockouts that had some serious consequences so I wouldn't go looking for them.
> 
> Also, please keep this on topic.  TW


 What happend to them?


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## Blooming Lotus (Dec 10, 2004)

RRouuselot said:
			
		

> When you say totally whipped his butt what exactly do you mean?
> Was the 24 year old laying there crying? Did they take him to the hospital?


No, but Dylan ( the 12 yr old) having the speed and strike combo down and some good "fight / defence " training  experience over him, after the initial few hits they traded off , got in enough blocks and strikes to make him stop and go for an all  guard covereing his head and knee blocking his body without continuing the attack.  This kid is more than 10 kgs heavier than I am, but I thought that was very cool it was working for him in real situations.  Now he's kind of a neighbourhood  hero as far as his friends and his sister are concerned.  It's very cute, but I don't think Troy ( the adult involved who has consequentially just hospitalised dylans 4 yr old cousin with an alah Chers "the mask" movie  son  temp deformation mucking about sparring and jazz) will not likely be so keen to try it with him in future, and his confidence got a nice boost.  There are some idiots about, and I like knowing he held his own on this one and even more I like knowing I helped him out and gave him something he's using .  

Blooming Lotus


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## RRouuselot (Dec 10, 2004)

Blooming Lotus said:
			
		

> No, but Dylan ( the 12 yr old) having the speed and strike combo down and some good "fight / defence " training experience over him, after the initial few hits they traded off , got in enough blocks and strikes to make him stop and go for an all guard covereing his head and knee blocking his body without continuing the attack. This kid is more than 10 kgs heavier than I am, but I thought that was very cool it was working for him in real situations. Now he's kind of a neighbourhood hero as far as his friends and his sister are concerned. It's very cute, but I don't think Troy ( the adult involved who has consequentially just hospitalised dylans 4 yr old cousin with an alah Chers "the mask" movie son temp deformation mucking about sparring and jazz) will not likely be so keen to try it with him in future, and his confidence got a nice boost. There are some idiots about, and I like knowing he held his own on this one and even more I like knowing I helped him out and gave him something he's using .
> 
> Blooming Lotus


 You lost me on this part.........


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## TigerWoman (Dec 10, 2004)

One girl, an older teen knocked out was pretty incoherent.  She had some short term memory problems which made high school difficult for her.  Another guy, older, that was knocked out had a jaw problem, had to have surgery.  Didn't hear what happened after that.  TW


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## Blooming Lotus (Dec 10, 2004)

One guy 24 , was mucking about play fighting with some kids. got a little serious with one 12 yr old ( my student) who had some training and the fought back and he realised it was a bad idea to "play" with him like that. Tried the same "game " the next day with a 4 yr old relative of the 2 yr olds , and put him hospital. Morale of the story is , myself and that 4 yr old need to spend a lil time together ( working on his running skill no less )  .............



Blooming Lotus


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## MJS (Dec 10, 2004)

Blooming Lotus said:
			
		

> One guy 24 , was mucking about play fighting with some kids. got a little serious with one 12 yr old ( my student) who had some training and the fought back and he realised it was a bad idea to "play" with him like that. Tried the same "game " the next day with a 4 yr old relative of the 2 yr olds , and put him hospital. Morale of the story is , myself and that 4 yr old need to spend a lil time together ( working on his running skill no less )  .............
> 
> 
> 
> Blooming Lotus



This tells me that the 24 yo needs to do some serious growing up!!!  Hes got nothing better to do than fight with a 12 and 4 yo???



> Morale of the story is , myself and that 4 yr old need to spend a lil time together ( working on his running skill no less )  .............



What exactly would you do with this 4yo that he'd actually be able to retain?


Mike


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## Bob Hubbard (Dec 10, 2004)

*Admin Note:

The tangent material has been split off from this into a new thread in the "Horror Stories" forum entitled "Attention Blooming Lotus".

It is found here: http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19977

Please keep -this- thread focused as intended by the thread starter, and the related tangents that were left in.

Thank you,
Bob Hubbard
MartialTalk Administrator*


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## Sarah (Dec 10, 2004)

Joe that is great....Tony finally got KO'd hehe!!

You're a great guy Joe, very passionate about your students and that is just fantastic to see!

Congrates Tony......so tell....how was it?


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## RRouuselot (Dec 11, 2004)

TigerWoman said:
			
		

> One girl, an older teen knocked out was pretty incoherent. She had some short term memory problems which made high school difficult for her. Another guy, older, that was knocked out had a jaw problem, had to have surgery. Didn't hear what happened after that. TW


 
 Sounds like someone is pretty irresponsible, not to mention unskilled, with technique.


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## Blooming Lotus (Dec 11, 2004)

MJS said:
			
		

> This tells me that the 24 yo needs to do some serious growing up!!! Hes got nothing better to do than fight with a 12 and 4 yo???
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I totally agree. He's not a bad guy, just really irresponsible. Unfortunately for him though, he is now going to have to face the legal ramifications of that and learn the hard way. I had a brief chat to him about the incident and I think it was in the same grain and he "gets" where he erred.. 
As for what to do with the 4 yr old, my comment was meant in humour. I don't know much I could do with him, but if I could getting him running faster, maybe for now, that would be okay. :idunno: Whaddya do really??


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## MJS (Dec 11, 2004)

Blooming Lotus said:
			
		

> I totally agree. He's not a bad guy, just really irresponsible. Unfortunately for him though, he is now going to have to face the legal ramifications of that and learn the hard way. I had a brief chat to him about the incident and I think it was in the same grain and he "gets" where he erred..



I would hope so.  However, I wouldn't say that hes "not a bad guy" because thats certainly not the impression I get from this story.  If what you're saying is true, he obviously erred a long time ago, but hes just seeing it now.  The guy needs help, not excuses for his actions.




> As for what to do with the 4 yr old, my comment was meant in humour. I don't know much I could do with him, but if I could getting him running faster, maybe for now, that would be okay. :idunno: Whaddya do really??



Ok.  Thanks for the clarification.  However, I doubt that a 4yo could possibly run faster than a grown adult.

In closing, this thread is   :-offtopic here.  The topic is about PPKO and his students, not about some grown adult fighting children!

Mike


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## TigerWoman (Dec 11, 2004)

RRouuselot said:
			
		

> Sounds like someone is pretty irresponsible, not to mention unskilled, with technique.



It was at a tournament in the cities.  We, as an organization don't attend it anymore because it is too uncontrolled.  TW


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## RRouuselot (Dec 11, 2004)

TigerWoman said:
			
		

> It was at a tournament in the cities. We, as an organization don't attend it anymore because it is too uncontrolled. TW


 Smart move. Kind of sucks for the people that got hurt though. 
 Who's tournament was it?
 And people get on my case for being too harsh with "kyusho Wannabies".....now you know why. 
 All it takes is for some idiot to think he is an expert in pressure points and go whack someone and seriously hurt them.
 If I have said it once I have said it 100 times "study from someone who is qualified in this area"......


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## Xequat (Dec 11, 2004)

RRouuselot said:
			
		

> If I have said it once I have said it 100 times "study from someone who is qualified in this area"......


Definitely.  

It felt pretty good to finally be able to knock someone out instead of being the one getting KO'd, heh.  I'm not sure if you'd call it a "light touch" because I got him pretty good in Large Intestine 18, but not as hard as I could have because I'm new to it and I didn't want to hurt Andrew.  I only actaully struck him the one time, though.  He wasn't 100% out, but he went to the ground in a hurry.  It was nice to have him a little conscious so that I could get a little experience with the healing/revival aspect as well.  The urgency wasn't as intense as it would have been if he were completely out, so I got to help Joe bring Andrew completely back.  

KO's are much different when you're the one standing  .  It's nice to have someone experienced to do the revivals because otherwise, you can't practice the KO's and without the practice, you won't be as good.  Joe's a good teacher and a good friend, so I'm proud to be in his school.


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## ppko (Dec 11, 2004)

Xequat said:
			
		

> Joe's a good teacher and a good friend, so I'm proud to be in his school.


Why thank you


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## RRouuselot (Dec 13, 2004)

Xequat said:
			
		

> Definitely.
> 
> 1) It was nice to have him a little conscious so that I could get a little experience with the healing/revival aspect as well. The urgency wasn't as intense as it would have been if he were completely out, so I got to help Joe bring Andrew completely back.


 
 1)If you are referring to the DKI style of revival it is not necessary to do all that elaborate stuff like getting four or five people to rush over, sitting the guy up and crossing their legs etc...but then again I guess it is all part of the Dillman Show isnt it.  Actually sitting them his not such a good idea and could increase the likelihood for injuries or complications. I know that DKI people think they ned to  counter the points they used to KO someone but that is pure BULL. The reason being, as I have said numerous times before, the points are too close together to accurately determine which point was usednot to mention that when doing a neck strike you are not even using points to KO them but the effect comes from the brain getting knocked against the skull and thereby KOing the person, so making them sit up could possible cause damage. But I guess you guys will figure that out in a few years when you start walking around shaking like Mohamed Ali. Like I said, its better to study from someone who is trained and actually knows what the hell they are doing.


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## ppko (Dec 13, 2004)

RRouuselot said:
			
		

> 1)If you are referring to the DKI style of revival it is not necessary to do all that elaborate stuff like getting four or five people to rush over, sitting the guy up and crossing their legs etc...but then again I guess it is all part of the Dillman Show isnt it.  Actually sitting them his not such a good idea and could increase the likelihood for injuries or complications. I know that DKI people think they ned to counter the points they used to KO someone but that is pure BULL. The reason being, as I have said numerous times before, the points are too close together to accurately determine which point was usednot to mention that when doing a neck strike you are not even using points to KO them but the effect comes from the brain getting knocked against the skull and thereby KOing the person, so making them sit up could possible cause damage. But I guess you guys will figure that out in a few years when you start walking around shaking like Mohamed Ali. Like I said, its better to study from someone who is trained and actually knows what the hell they are doing.


To each there own I guess , you love to start flame wars don't you. So I guess that you would rather leave them be and just hope they wake up, yeah that is the smart thing to do.  Andrew KOd Tony with a GB20 shot and Tony KOd Andrew with a LI18 shot, oh but wait it is impossible to hit any one point.  On LI 18 you are correct sir, but you effect the one point by angle and direction or don't you learn this in TCM.  Would you like for me to continue, no I think this concludes your lesson for today.


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## ppko (Dec 13, 2004)

Lets get back to discussing success stories


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## D.Cobb (Dec 13, 2004)

RRouuselot said:
			
		

> Smart move. Kind of sucks for the people that got hurt though.
> Who's tournament was it?
> And people get on my case for being too harsh with "kyusho Wannabies".....now you know why.
> All it takes is for some idiot to think he is an expert in pressure points and go whack someone and seriously hurt them.
> If I have said it once I have said it 100 times "study from someone who is qualified in this area"......



Hi Robert, you and I have discussed this many times, and you know that for the most part I agree with you. However, I have to ask, How do I (or anyone), go about finding the "qualified" person? I mean what credentials do you get that says you are qualified to teach (so called) KYUSHO techniques?


--Dave :asian:


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## D.Cobb (Dec 13, 2004)

Xequat said:
			
		

> Definitely.
> 
> It felt pretty good to finally be able to knock someone out instead of being the one getting KO'd, heh.  I'm not sure if you'd call it a "light touch" because I got him pretty good in Large Intestine 18, but not as hard as I could have because I'm new to it and I didn't want to hurt Andrew.  I only actaully struck him the one time, though.  He wasn't 100% out, but he went to the ground in a hurry.  It was nice to have him a little conscious so that I could get a little experience with the healing/revival aspect as well.  The urgency wasn't as intense as it would have been if he were completely out, so I got to help Joe bring Andrew completely back.




If your school practises the revivals(some don't), then what were you doing striking someones pressure points, without the knowledge of revivals? I would have thought they were/ are more important than being able to bash someone so that they fall down.

--Dave :asian:


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## D.Cobb (Dec 13, 2004)

RRouuselot said:
			
		

> 1)If you are referring to the DKI style of revival it is not necessary to do all that elaborate stuff like getting four or five people to rush over, sitting the guy up and crossing their legs etc...but then again I guess it is all part of the Dillman Show isnt it.  Actually sitting them his not such a good idea and could increase the likelihood for injuries or complications. I know that DKI people think they ned to  counter the points they used to KO someone but that is pure BULL. The reason being, as I have said numerous times before, the points are too close together to accurately determine which point was usednot to mention that when doing a neck strike you are not even using points to KO them but the effect comes from the brain getting knocked against the skull and thereby KOing the person, so making them sit up could possible cause damage. But I guess you guys will figure that out in a few years when you start walking around shaking like Mohamed Ali. Like I said, its better to study from someone who is trained and actually knows what the hell they are doing.



I have to tell you, Robert, I have experienced being tapped by DKI and other exponents. One thing I have found, no matter who the hitter is, it feels a lot better to get the Dillman treatment afterwards, than to not get it. You don't feel so fuzzy in the head, and the lack of equalibrium seems to pass a lot quicker

--Dave :asian:


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## RRouuselot (Dec 13, 2004)

ppko said:
			
		

> 1) To each there own I guess , you love to start flame wars don't you. 2) So I guess that you would rather leave them be and just hope they wake up, yeah that is the smart thing to do.


    <sigh>

   1)[font=&quot]      [/font]If it is written in a thread I can comment on it. Never said I wanted to start a flame war.it just seems that you can never justify what you claim in your posts regarding pressure points, no touch Kos and the rest of it. I can correct wrong information you pass out as I see fit. 
 I think you said you were here to learn and share ideas. Well, here is someone (me) that knows more than you do, as well as your buddy Dillman, on the subject of pressure points and TCM giving you information on it. I have pointed out to you on countless occasions the error in your theories regarding these subjects. 
 After seeing your attitude over the last few months has made me come to the conclusion that you are not really here to learn and only want to pump your own agenda, DKI and only exchange ideas with people that agree with you or buy into your half baked theories. Especially since there is someone who actually knows and is trained in the subject your are trying to discuss and you constantly reject facts that given to you. But then I guess if you started to listen me that would contradict what Dillman says.and that would put you in between a rock and a hard place. You would be doing you and your students a favor if you lost the ego and actually listened to one who knows what theyre talking about.


 <sigh again>


   2)[font=&quot]      [/font]Did I say that is how I would react to the situation? I dont think I did. Here again you were given advice by a trained professional and you chose to cop an attitude.


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## ppko (Dec 13, 2004)

D.Cobb said:
			
		

> If your school practises the revivals(some don't), then what were you doing striking someones pressure points, without the knowledge of revivals? I would have thought they were/ are more important than being able to bash someone so that they fall down.
> 
> --Dave :asian:


We do practice revivals, but this is the first time that he has had to do it in action I was just there to guide him through it.


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## RRouuselot (Dec 13, 2004)

D.Cobb said:
			
		

> Hi Robert, you and I have discussed this many times, and you know that for the most part I agree with you. However, I have to ask, How do I (or anyone), go about finding the "qualified" person? I mean what credentials do you get that says you are qualified to teach (so called) KYUSHO techniques?
> 
> 
> --Dave :asian:


 That's a good question. First off I would try to find someone that was trained by someone that actually for more than a few years experience. Training in TCM would great, but not really needed. 
 Basically kyusho is not a seperate art as some would have you think. It is actually in many arts.....so finding someone that CAN and WILL teach it the right way is not easy.


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## ppko (Dec 13, 2004)

RRouuselot said:
			
		

> <sigh>
> 
> 1)If it is written in a thread I can comment on it. Never said I wanted to start a flame war.it just seems that you can never justify what you claim in your posts regarding pressure points, no touch Kos and the rest of it. I can correct wrong information you pass out as I see fit.
> I think you said you were here to learn and share ideas. Well, here is someone (me) that knows more than you do, as well as your buddy Dillman, on the subject of pressure points and TCM giving you information on it. I have pointed out to you on countless occasions the error in your theories regarding these subjects.
> ...


I did not cop an attitude with you, not until you did with me sir.


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## RRouuselot (Dec 13, 2004)

D.Cobb said:
			
		

> I have to tell you, Robert, I have experienced being tapped by DKI and other exponents. One thing I have found, no matter who the hitter is, it feels a lot better to get the Dillman treatment afterwards, than to not get it. You don't feel so fuzzy in the head, and the lack of equalibrium seems to pass a lot quicker
> 
> --Dave :asian:


   The easiest way to revive someone is to do a sternum rub.works like a charm.

   There is no need fro all the drama that Dillmans people do with 4 or 5 folks scrambling to get the KOed person up into a sitting position and crossing their legs. But that adds to the shock & awe factor and looks really kool for the uninitiated. Simple do the sternum rub (not the only way though)  and gently lift the head slightly and massage the back of their neck at the base of the skull on both sides (takes away the nausea).. good for sea sickness as well. 


   Like I said before, youre not correcting point(s) that were struck and there is no need to that many people there. 

   How often do you see medical people pick up a person who has just been knocked out like a boxer for example..not ever right? Whats the difference? There isnt one.


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## D.Cobb (Dec 13, 2004)

ppko said:
			
		

> We do practice revivals, but this is the first time that he has had to do it in action I was just there to guide him through it.


Shouldn't you have taught him that bit first? 
I mean any one can thump anyone else :whip: , it's NO big deal! Surely the "Healing" side of the arts is more important.... 
Otherwise, why not do like Robert said and just let them come around by natural means?

Just wondering....... :idunno: 


--Dave :asian:


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## RRouuselot (Dec 13, 2004)

ppko said:
			
		

> I did not cop an attitude with you, not until you did with me sir.


 and yet more attitude from you.

 Ya know...this is not a DKI thing and here is why .... DCobb is/was a Dillman student and he and I get along pretty good. We often exchange emails and I consider him a friend even though we have never actually seen each other. I have learned a great deal from him and value his friendship.


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## D.Cobb (Dec 13, 2004)

RRouuselot said:
			
		

> The easiest way to revive someone is to do a sternum rub.works like a charm.
> 
> There is no need fro all the drama that Dillmans people do with 4 or 5 folks scrambling to get the KOed person up into a sitting position and crossing their legs. But that adds to the shock & awe factor and looks really kool for the uninitiated. Simple do the sternum rub (not the only way though)  and gently lift the head slightly and massage the back of their neck at the base of the skull on both sides (takes away the nausea).. good for sea sickness as well.
> 
> ...



I must admit, I have only been "rubbed" by the one person at a time, not the 5 or 6 as you've mentioned, and it wasn't a rush mad panic kind of thing. I went down, he sat me up and slapped the spinal accessory nerve(gives you a kind of WAKE UP jolt) Then rubbed the neck like you said.

Tell me more about the sternum rub, it sounds interesting.

--Dave :asian:


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## RRouuselot (Dec 13, 2004)

D.Cobb said:
			
		

> Otherwise, why not do like Robert said and just let them come around by natural means?
> --Dave :asian:


 Actually I never said that.....I think ppko was projecting when he wrote that in his post. 
 I am all for taking a proactive approach to getting them to wake up.....I am against having them brought up to a sitting position so quickly or before they are recovered.


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## RRouuselot (Dec 13, 2004)

D.Cobb said:
			
		

> I must admit, I have only been "rubbed" by the one person at a time, not the 5 or 6 as you've mentioned, and it wasn't a rush mad panic kind of thing. I went down, he sat me up and slapped the spinal accessory nerve(gives you a kind of WAKE UP jolt) Then rubbed the neck like you said.
> 
> Tell me more about the sternum rub, it sounds interesting.
> 
> --Dave :asian:


  All the demos by Dillman and video by DKI girl I have seen always has an    entourage of about 4 to 5 people.


 The slap you mentioned is OK but you can also smack their "glutes" (***) for the same effect. It keeps them from having to be put in an upright position.


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## Xequat (Dec 13, 2004)

Dave, actually I had been shown the revivals a few times, but never actually got to do them on someone who needed until the KO.  


There was no fanfare whatsoever for our KO's, so you are making a very unfounded assumption, Rob.  We did not scramble for shock and awe and I think you realize it.  I have to ask, though...did you actually neg my reputation for learning KO's from someone who isn't you or your teacher?  Thanks for that, I got a good laugh out of the pettiness of it if it was you, but I'm not going to assume it without knowing, because whomever it was, they didn't sign it.  

Read the subtitle of this site once in a while.  "Friendly discussion about the martial arts."  It seems that the only advice you can offer is "don't train with anyone but Oyata or me because they are frauds."  I know that you guys are good, but you are not the only ones in the world who know and understand pressure points.  I've actually given you positive rep before because I usually respect what you write, but there are plenty of other "I hate Dillman threads, so please go there to bash DKI.  This is ppko's thread about his successful teaching and I'm proud of him.  If you want to attack me because I am associated with someone you don't happen to like, then do it pm's or on another thread.

Question for everyone : has anyone been seriously hurt and not repaired by Dillman or any of his top students?  If so, then maybe you're right and DKI is dangerous.


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## RRouuselot (Dec 13, 2004)

Xequat said:
			
		

> 1) There was no fanfare whatsoever for our KO's, so you are making a very unfounded assumption, Rob.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 1)So if you bother to read my post you will see it was no assumption but based on what I have actually seen. 

 2)Again, go through my posts and you will see I give pretty specific examples based on TCM principles why I object to your posts and the alleged knowledge you claim to have..and you will also notice I do not mention my teacher in any of this stuff...in fact you will also notice I do not mention him in my profile and rarely if ever discuss him unless he is mentioned by someone else first. So show me where I have implied any such thing. Give me a specific example where I implied "if you don't study with my teacher you are studying with a fraud".....fact is YOU CAN'T find any place that I have said that or even implied anything like that. 
 I have tried to have friendly discussions with you guys but when specific questions are asked or specific topics are discussed you either give incorrect information or balk at an answer....then when given information why your comments are flawed get your panties in a bunch and cry "take it to PM". 

 3)Actually nobody is attacking you. There is no need to take it to PMseverytime you guys can't defend your position in posts or don't like what people post in regards to your posts/threads you always cry "take to PM" thereby avoiding an embarassing situation.... you make comments and people post responses to those comments..if you dont want to have it discussed dont start a thread on it or post it in a thread. 

 4)Here is another question: How long did it take Ali to develop the disease he has? Did it happen right after he got hit or did it take years before the symptoms started?


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## Flatlander (Dec 13, 2004)

deleted


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## ppko (Dec 13, 2004)

D.Cobb said:
			
		

> Shouldn't you have taught him that bit first?
> I mean any one can thump anyone else :whip: , it's NO big deal! Surely the "Healing" side of the arts is more important....
> Otherwise, why not do like Robert said and just let them come around by natural means?
> 
> ...


I did teach him that first


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## ppko (Dec 13, 2004)

RRouuselot said:
			
		

> Here is another question: How long did it take Ali to develop the disease he has? Did it happen right after he got hit or did it take years before the symptoms started?


So by your assumption (beings that is obviously what it is from this post) anyone including yourself that has been KOd (now you do realize that by your own post you assume that teacher now know longer matters) could end up like Ali.


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## Xequat (Dec 15, 2004)

RRouuselot said:
			
		

> 1)So if you bother to read my post you will see it was no assumption but based on what I have actually seen.
> 
> 2)Again, go through my posts and you will see I give pretty specific examples based on TCM principles why I object to your posts and the alleged knowledge you claim to have..and you will also notice I do not mention my teacher in any of this stuff...in fact you will also notice I do not mention him in my profile and rarely if ever discuss him unless he is mentioned by someone else first. So show me where I have implied any such thing. Give me a specific example where I implied "if you don't study with my teacher you are studying with a fraud".....fact is YOU CAN'T find any place that I have said that or even implied anything like that.
> I have tried to have friendly discussions with you guys but when specific questions are asked or specific topics are discussed you either give incorrect information or balk at an answer....then when given information why your comments are flawed get your panties in a bunch and cry "take it to PM".
> ...


 
1)  OK, fair enough.  You've seen it in other places, but there was no showcasing in our class and we know it's not necessary to have a bunch of people rush over because there were only a few of us in class and no spectators.

2)  Yes, I agree that many of your posts involving TCM have been quite helpful.  But this is the only one of my posts that you have openly disagreed with and I'm willing to bet that it's simply because you don't agree with my teacher.  Who in the world are "you guys?"  You have never once tried to have a friendly conversation with me, but I'm up for it if you are.  PPKO is a very good instructor, but we are completely different people.  So he starts a thread on a martial arts site to talk about a martial arts success and you attack.  Tell me, where was your try to have friendly discussions with me?

3)  See that word "or?"  That's an important part of my post.  That means you can bash whomever you want on one of the other threads about Kyusho-jitsu or Dillman or maybe you've hijacked other threads, too...I don't know.  But you aren't even trying to stay on topic here; you apparently just want to vent about someone who disagrees with you.  And actually someone did "attack" me with a reputation ding.  I mean, it's kind of like being attacked by a three-year-old; same mentality and same effect - I just kind of laugh at the futility and childishness of it; but it was an attack nonetheless.  Maybe it wasn't you - don't know, don't care.  And nobody did start a thread here on what you're talking about.  The thread was started about a success as I'm sure you well know.

4)  It took Ali a long time to develop his condition.  But we know the cause of it.  If it took some Kyusho person a long time to develop a condition, then that still qualifies, so has it happened or not?  I honestly asked the question out of curiosity because I haven't been studying Kyusho Jitsu for very long, as you probably know from the fact that this was my first KO, but your defensive tone and the fact that you answered my question with another question leads me to believe that there is no evidence that DKI hurts people.  I'd really like to know if it's happened, because, like I said, if DKI people are dangerous in class, then I'll seriously think about looking somewhere else for training.  I don't plan on becoming dysfunctional out of loyalty to a reckless or unknowledgeable instructor or organization.  I answered your question, so please answer mine.  I don't care what the answer is, I just want to know what it is before I get into any trouble.

It's really sad that a guy can't go to a martial arts communtity discussion board and post about a successful class without being attacked, especially when the subtitle mentions friendliness.  I mean, some topics are obviously flame threads and that's fine because people know it going in.  Whew, check out The Study - all kinds of disagreement in there.  But I can see where you're coming from, Rob.  You seem to be (and maybe I'm wrong) like the extremely religious or the extremely political - you truly think that what you're saying is so correct that you can only be doing people a favor by trying to get them to your point of view.  That's actually kind of admirable because it's not done out of pride or self-promotion.  We're all here to learn and I can appreciate what you write about TCM and other such topics.  But when you make it political, you really disappoint me and I tend to lose respect.  But you've only done it once to me, so I can brush it off for now.  

In the future, you should know that I very rarely ask rhetorical questions as it seems that my last one about DKI people getting hurt seemed to be.  So if you have an answer to any of my questions, I honestly would appreciate info from you, as I'd be glad to answer any questions that I can, which is obviously fewer because I haven't studied as long.


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## RRouuselot (Dec 15, 2004)

Xequat said:
			
		

> 1)[font=&quot]      [/font]OK, fair enough. You've seen it in other places, but there was no showcasing in our class and we know it's not necessary to have a bunch of people rush over because there were only a few of us in class and no spectators.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



   1)[font=&quot]      [/font]Interesting, then why is it Dillman and other DKI people do it if its not necessary? 

   2)[font=&quot]      [/font]I am commenting on the very 1st post made by ppokoboth of my students got there first taste of the light touch Knock-out.so I AM on topic here. 

   3)[font=&quot]      [/font]Hmmm how to answer that question.shall I go around and have MRIs done on every single person it has been done too??? OR, should I look at statistical data regarding people being knocked out in relation to certain side effects???I think the later is more logical. 

   4)[font=&quot]      [/font]Actually I am neither. I just dislike reading BS written by hacks about Kyusho and TCM


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## ppko (Dec 15, 2004)

RRouuselot said:
			
		

> 3)Hmmm how to answer that question.shall I go around and have MRIs done on every single person it has been done too??? OR, should I look at statistical data regarding people being knocked out in relation to certain side effects???I think the later is more logical.


Ok but you still dodge the answer, and you do not even attempt to comment on my statement.


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## RRouuselot (Dec 15, 2004)

ppko said:
			
		

> Ok but you still dodge the answer, and you do not even attempt to comment on my statement.


 I did answer the question.......re-read my answer and you will see this statement. *I think the later is more logical.*


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## RRouuselot (Dec 15, 2004)

ppko said:
			
		

> So by your assumption (beings that is obviously what it is from this post) anyone including yourself that has been KOd (now you do realize that by your own post you assume that teacher now know longer matters) could end up like Ali.


  Is this your "question"?
  Sorry, most people use a "?" when asking a question.....I don't see one in your post.

 I think it is actaully you that has yet to address my point I made here and several months ago.....you claim your hitting pressure points is what causes those knockouts....interesting since you are hitting no less than 5 points...and that stuff you do to people afterwards is fixing the p.points.....and still can't tell me which one exactly cause the KO as you "claim".


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## ppko (Dec 15, 2004)

RRouuselot said:
			
		

> Is this your "question"?
> Sorry, most people use a "?" when asking a question.....I don't see one in your post.


I never said it was a question it was a statement, but lets just say that it was a question.


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## RRouuselot (Dec 15, 2004)

ppko said:
			
		

> I never said it was a question it was a statement, but lets just say that it was a question.


 Seems obvious really.........a KO is a KO.


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## Xequat (Dec 15, 2004)

RRouuselot said:
			
		

> 1)Interesting, then why is it Dillman and other DKI people do it if its not necessary?
> 
> 2)I am commenting on the very 1st post made by ppokoboth of my students got there first taste of the light touch Knock-out.so I AM on topic here.
> 
> ...


1) I don't care. The point is that we didn't.

2) Nice try, but this is thread about a successful class, not about your differences with the style and you know it. 

3) Yes, that would be fine. Run your MRI's por whatever you need to do just like they did for Ali. If you have any evidence, whether it's MRI's or testimonies then please share them, but it seems more and more from your lack of producing evidence that there is none. I don't care how hard it is for you to bring evidence; it's up to you to find it since you're the one who's accusing people of being hacks. So prove it. If you can, then that's great and we'll all learn something. If not, then you lose. Either way, I don't care.  But have you looked at this statistical data?  If so, where can I find it?

4) So we've gone from "Hey everyone, I just had a great class" to "you are dealing with hacks." Yeah, that's on topic. Look, I'm sure you know a ton about TCM and kyusho jitsu, but you don't know everything, so please don't act like it. That's why we had the Dark Ages; people thought there was nothing else to learn, so they stopped trying and society got stupid, in a nutshell. Like I've said before, I can respect what you write when it's informative and not too opinionated, and of course, on topic.


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## Seig (Dec 16, 2004)

Admin Warning

Keep the discussion polite and respectful.

Seig
Mt Ops Admin


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## RRouuselot (Dec 16, 2004)

Xequat said:
			
		

> 1) I don't care. The point is that we didn't.
> 
> 2) Nice try, but this is thread about a successful class, not about your differences with the style and you know it.
> 
> ...


 

    1) So you are not doing things the way Dillman does?? Does this mean you know more than he claims to? 

 2) Its the focus of his post..ppko was saying you were successful at the KO....it's part of the topic in his original post. 

 3) Now you are just being spiteful since you know I am not mistaken about it. There is enough information on the web and elsewhere about the effects of the trauma caused by being KOed. Look for it.

 4)As for the hack part of your comment.I have shown/proven.or should I say others have shown and proven their lack of knowledge about pp, kyusho, TCM etc. time and time again. Surf through my previous discussions with certain folks on here if you want to.


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## Cruentus (Dec 16, 2004)

Just for fun...

first aid for KO's or unconsciousness:

_"If the person is breathing, and a spinal injury is NOT suspected, and he is lying on his back, carefully roll him toward you onto his side. Bend the top leg so both hip and knee are at right angles. Gently tilt the head back to keep the airway open._

and...

_ If you witness a person fainting, try to prevent him or her from falling. Lie the person flat on the floor and elevate the feet about 12 inches. 
_ 

Found here - http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/000022.htm#Causes

Also on the dangers of Knocking people out (don't know how legit this guy is though, but he is apparently a TCM practitioner):

_ If a person is hit in the head, it does not matter which acupuncture point was hit or wether KO occured, there will be slight brain damage. This damage is most clearly noticable in people who practice boxing. The effects are not noticable when people are young, they believe that there is nothing wrong and that everthing is fine.  

However the effects begin to emerge as the years go by and people develop what is known as symptoms of bieng punch drunk. In extream cases there are more severe symptoms similar to parkinsons disease, shaking of the hands and an inability to control the limbs.  

If a dim mak strike does cause knock out (wether it was through a blow to the head or not) the sudden blood pressure drop deprives the brain of oxygen enriched blood for a period of time. This damages the ability of the brain to function properly.  _

found here - http://www.tai-chi-chuan.demon.co.uk/longterm.html

So...there ya go...

Paul


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## Xequat (Dec 16, 2004)

RRouuselot said:
			
		

> 1) So you are not doing things the way Dillman does?? Does this mean you know more than he claims to?
> 
> 2) Its the focus of his post..ppko was saying you were successful at the KO....it's part of the topic in his original post.
> 
> ...


1)  LOL  Well, stupid text.  I can't tell if you're serious or trying to lighten things up for sure, but I'll go with option B.  Thanks for that.

2)  Right, but there are plenty of other threads for you to talk about how ppko is a hack and how you don't agree with his methods.  This is not one of them.  I could take a topic out of just about any post here and change the entire direction of the thread if I wanted to.  We both know what the purpose of this thread was and we are way off the mark now (including me, I admit.  I should have let it go, but I really thought I had to respond.)

3)  OK, that's just laughable.  You made a very insulting accusation and now you want me to prove it?  Hmm, why not accuse me of a crime and then have me round up evidence and ask myself questions on the stand?  Wow.  I mean, maybe you are right, but the burden's on you to prove it.

4)  You proved that who's a hack?  Just refer me to some of these threads and I'll read them.  I'll never find them on here because all of the search words I'd use would give me so many responses that I'd never get through them all and I don't have time for that.


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## Xequat (Dec 16, 2004)

Hey, great.  Thanks for those sites, Paul.  That's what I was hoping for.  I'm curious about the second one, though...was it published in something?  I only ask because it seems like opinion and there are no sources listed, plus there are way too many misspelled words for it to have been published.  But it does make sense.  I really liked the nih one, though.  I guess that works for all kinds of unconsciousness, pressure point or not.


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## Marginal (Dec 16, 2004)

Xequat said:
			
		

> If you have any evidence, whether it's MRI's or testimonies then please share them, but it seems more and more from your lack of producing evidence that there is none. I don't care how hard it is for you to bring evidence; it's up to you to find it since you're the one who's accusing people of being hacks. So prove it. If you can, then that's great and we'll all learn something. If not, then you lose. Either way, I don't care.



Boxers tend to stay away from KO situations for at least a month after suffering a KO to minimize lasting brain injury. There are studies on the subject at www.pubmed.com if you care to do some digging.


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## Cruentus (Dec 16, 2004)

Xequat said:
			
		

> Hey, great.  Thanks for those sites, Paul.  That's what I was hoping for.  I'm curious about the second one, though...was it published in something?  I only ask because it seems like opinion and there are no sources listed, plus there are way too many misspelled words for it to have been published.  But it does make sense.  I really liked the nih one, though.  I guess that works for all kinds of unconsciousness, pressure point or not.



No problem, glad I could help.

The 2nd link is a guy who is certified in TCM, and is a lecturer at the London College of Chinese Medicine; that was an article that was in "Combat Magazine." I don't personally know how TCM certifications work, but I assume its legit. I don't know what's up with the spelling errors either - some might be just the European way of spelling certian words, but I am not sure.

I am not a pressure point expert, but I will say that it is pretty well known in the medical community that repeated knockouts can cause long term damage. So can repeated blows to the head, for that matter. I did some boxing, kickboxing, and MMA in my teens and late teens. As I got a little older I decided I wanted to save my brain cells, so I stopped competing.

I know 2 people close to me who have long term neurological damage in their older age from being repeatedly knocked out in competition fighting. You couldn't tell them when they were younger (I am sure) that their activities would have any long term effects.

I am sure there is more on this stuff in medical journals, and I know that years ago I remember seeing some credable sources on this; but I am not a medical professional either, so I am not sure where you would find this stuff online.

On that note, my personal opinion is that being knocked out is a "casualty of war" in full contact fighting, so to speak. However, people should know the risks before going into something. It would be unethical to teach and promote full contact fighting without expressing the risks involved. I think it would be especially unethical to present the idea that "I'm gonna wack ya in the neck and knock you out, but don't worry, there will be no side effects if I revive you," when it is well known in the medical community that this is not nessicarily true. I think that if your knocked out once, the probability is pretty low that your going to see long term damage. However, if your being knocked out seminar after seminar or worse class after class, you greatly increase the chances of being damaged long term.

I am not criticizing anyone here or anyones instructor, btw; this is just how I feel about this particular issue...

Paul


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## RRouuselot (Dec 16, 2004)

Xequat said:
			
		

> 1) LOL Well, stupid text. I can't tell if you're serious or trying to lighten things up for sure, but I'll go with option B. Thanks for that.
> 
> 4) You proved that who's a hack? Just refer me to some of these threads and I'll read them. I'll never find them on here because all of the search words I'd use would give me so many responses that I'd never get through them all and I don't have time for that.


 1) Nice way to dodge the question......so care to explain why you chose not to follow Dillman's way of doing things? I mean ppko is one of Dillman's students so it would seem logical.....

 4) All you have to do is look for the threads on pp, kyusho etc that have been locked down. You will see where I have asked ppko, Rob Broad, and several others to explain their posts concerning pp, TCM, and kyusho......they couldn't.


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## RRouuselot (Dec 16, 2004)

ppko said:
			
		

> I just wanted to tell everyone how proud of my students that I am (even without this story I am still very proud with them), *both of my students got there first taste of the light touch Knock-out.  *Tony (Xequat whom has been with me for a little while now), and Andrew (he is not on this board but is one of my students) *got to knock each other out,* as it makes me feel great as an instructor (this is my first school so I am sure this won't be as big of a deal after a while or maybe it will), and it makes me very happy for *my students now they know they can do it *the sky is the limit.


 Out of 2 very long sentences KOing someone is mentioned 3 times in the original post. If nobody Koed anybody this thread wouldn't have started.

 BTW, if you think this thread has gone way off topic, put me on your ignore list and carry on with whatever you want. It's pretty easy to do.


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## Cruentus (Dec 16, 2004)

Marginal said:
			
		

> Boxers tend to stay away from KO situations for at least a month after suffering a KO to minimize lasting brain injury. There are studies on the subject at www.pubmed.com if you care to do some digging.



Good site Marginal. Another one is: http://www.neurology.org/

Most of the really good articles that covers LOS (Loss of Consciousness) and Concussion you have to pay for, which I am not going to do just to prove a point that I know is correct. A lot of the free content has really good info on the common boxing disorder CTE, but it is hard to find info that seperates LOS with repeated blows to the head. I know that some wisenhymer (who is looking for any excuss for it to be O.K. to repeatedly knock out themselves and their buddies) will say that CTE is from repeated blows to the head, and not the neck or the "pressure point," so its not the same, yada yada...which is why I won't even bother linking the few I found.

If someone finds a really good free article on the long term effects of LOS specifically (seperating it from head blows), then I would be a happy man...

Paul


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## RRouuselot (Dec 16, 2004)

Xequat said:
			
		

> 3) OK, that's just laughable. You made a very insulting accusation and now you want me to prove it? Hmm, why not accuse me of a crime and then have me round up evidence and ask myself questions on the stand? Wow. I mean, maybe you are right, but the burden's on you to prove it.


 
 So you mean to say that before Tulisan's posting the URLs about being KOed you had no idea there was any damage involved? 
 Are you saying his post is the very first time you heard anything about brain damage being related to head trauma, or being KOed? 
 Some how I don't think so.......


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## RRouuselot (Dec 16, 2004)

Marginal said:
			
		

> Boxers tend to stay away from KO situations for at least a month after suffering a KO to minimize lasting brain injury. There are studies on the subject at www.pubmed.com if you care to do some digging.


 
 Good find. Interesting stuff too.


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## ppko (Dec 16, 2004)

I know that DKI does, and has done tests on the effects on KOing people (University of Virginia, some tests in Canada, and at least one in INdianapolis), with me not being a part of these tests I do not know from first hand experience what was concluded, but from the people that were KOd and there experience that is all I know.  I will be a part of the next one that my instructor does, from what I have been told thus far they have not been able to find any adverse effects.  About George in some of his earlier KOs there was lots of people there to catch the person, this is to lower the chance of injury, but now for the most part we know where they will fall so most people only use 1 or 2 catchers.  Mr. Rousselet at this point you are just trying to bait us out, no we do not know more than Mr. Dillman, arts grow (well at least ours has) people improve, the last time that I know that you have had any contact with Mr. Dillman was in 1984 (thats 20 yrs ago) let it go.


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## ppko (Dec 16, 2004)

Just one more thing we do not do KOs on a regular basis, I think that Tony has been KOd Three times, and TKOd once, this was Andrews first time and this was just to show that they could do it.


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## ppko (Dec 16, 2004)

A question for you Rob, you do Bogu Kumite, right if you go full contact than you risk giving your students brain damage (assuming that you do allow stikes to the head of course) am I right?


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## MJS (Dec 16, 2004)

Guys....please keep the discussion focused on the topic.  If you're not interested in hearing someone, use the ignore feature.

Mike


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## RRouuselot (Dec 16, 2004)

ppko said:
			
		

> .........Mr. Rousselet at this point you are just trying to bait us out, no we do not know more than Mr. Dillman, arts grow (well at least ours has) people improve, the last time that I know that you have had any contact with Mr. Dillman was in 1984 (thats 20 yrs ago) let it go.


  No that is not correct. i am not trying to 'bait" you...
 Also, I and several of my students & friends have also had contact with him in the US as well as some other countries.....as early as 1998


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## RRouuselot (Dec 16, 2004)

ppko said:
			
		

> A question for you Rob, you do Bogu Kumite, right if you go full contact than you risk giving your students brain damage (assuming that you do allow stikes to the head of course) am I right?


 My students are well aware of the risks involved....as am I.....

 As always you seem to be totally missing my point and try and turn my question around. 
 My point is DKI people always claim they are using "pressure points" when doing a "neck whack"..(which is incorrect...they are not)...I have asked you on numerous occasions to tell me exactly which point you are using since there are several in that area.....you have never even come close to giving me an answer. This also is in relation to the DKI people also claim they are correcting the point that was struck when doing their "revival show".


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## KenpoTess (Dec 16, 2004)

* MOD NOTE

Thread locked pending Admin Review.. it no longer has any bearing on the Topic.  

~Tess
-MT S. Mod-

*


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## Seig (Dec 16, 2004)

KenpoTess said:
			
		

> * MOD NOTE*
> 
> *Thread locked pending Admin Review.. it no longer has any bearing on the Topic. *
> 
> ...


Tess was absolutely correct to lock this thread. Cool down. I have now read the entire thread. If the situation does not go back to a POLITE and Respectful nature, there will be two suspensions and an official warning sent out, by me, not a SuperMod. 
I am now unlocking this thread, but it is being carefully watched and will be locked down again if necessary.
Seig
MT OPS ADMIN


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## RRouuselot (Dec 17, 2004)

ppko & xequat I have posted something I want you to tak a look at and give your honest opinion

http://martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?p=324438#post324438

 ( I posted it here so in a new thread so people will stop whining about a thread drift)


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## D.Cobb (Dec 17, 2004)

ppko said:
			
		

> I did teach him that first




So, how come he needed someone else to do it for him?

--Dave


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## ppko (Dec 17, 2004)

He didn't I was there as a guide and nothing more.  But to get more to the subject on hand I would really like to get some different success stories in this thread.


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## ppko (Dec 17, 2004)

Seig said:
			
		

> Tess was absolutely correct to lock this thread. Cool down. I have now read the entire thread. If the situation does not go back to a POLITE and Respectful nature, there will be two suspensions and an official warning sent out, by me, not a SuperMod.
> I am now unlocking this thread, but it is being carefully watched and will be locked down again if necessary.
> Seig
> MT OPS ADMIN


Thank you sir, maybe we can get this thread back on track.


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## D.Cobb (Dec 18, 2004)

Hey Mr. Rousellot, can you tell me more about the sternum rub as a means of waking your vic.... I mean Uke up. I'm quite interested to know how it works.

--Dave :asian:


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## RRouuselot (Dec 18, 2004)

D.Cobb said:
			
		

> Hey Mr. Rousellot, can you tell me more about the sternum rub as a means of waking your vic.... I mean Uke up. I'm quite interested to know how it works.
> 
> --Dave :asian:


 I tried to find a good photo a good photo of it but couldn't so I will try to explain it. Hospitals and EMTs often use this technique. 
 With the person on their back you basically just make a fist and take the middle knuckles of your fingers and rub them up and down the sternum (the bone in the center of the chest) of the KOed person..it kind of looks like what we called "Indian torture" when I was a kid but instead of pounding you rub the knuckles up and down.....this actually hurts and cause the person to come around.


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## ppko (Dec 18, 2004)

D.Cobb said:
			
		

> Hey Mr. Rousellot, can you tell me more about the sternum rub as a means of waking your vic.... I mean Uke up. I'm quite interested to know how it works.
> 
> --Dave :asian:


Wally Jay shows how to do this in his first book on Small Circle Jujitsu


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## D.Cobb (Dec 19, 2004)

RRouuselot said:
			
		

> I tried to find a good photo a good photo of it but couldn't so I will try to explain it. Hospitals and EMTs often use this technique.
> With the person on their back you basically just make a fist and take the middle knuckles of your fingers and rub them up and down the sternum (the bone in the center of the chest) of the KOed person..it kind of looks like what we called "Indian torture" when I was a kid but instead of pounding you rub the knuckles up and down.....this actually hurts and cause the person to come around.



Cool thanks. I'll have to give it a go.

--Dave :asian:


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