# Kubotan UK (England) Law



## Mighty.Panda (Oct 19, 2014)

Apologies I'm sure this has been raised before but I wondered as to the UK law regarding these. My new(ish) partner has a birthday coming up and she's basically totally into this kind of stuff and was considering getting her one. I was actually just discussing them with a friend though (who had no idea what they were) so I linked him to a wikipedia article and on a quick glance down I stumbled across a link to this article...

BBC News - Actor Darren Day guilty of offensive weapon charge

Now the two immediate things to bear in mind are that 1.) this is from 2010 and 2.) it's in Scotland. I just wondered does anyone know for sure if they're actually legal over (in England) ? Example below... Flat-headed variety, polymer/plastic. I wouldn't ever consider the pointed, metal, spikey varieties because they really are highly suspicious and honestly asking for trouble.

http://www.kubotan.it/r/showThumb.a...ALLERY/kubotan-bergamo-milano.jpg&maxSize=640


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## Tez3 (Oct 19, 2014)

The case of Darren Day was more about the reason he was stopped by the police than carrying a kubotan, he was arrested for drunk driving after a collision, the charges for that were serious...drunk driving and leaving the scene of a vehicle crash. When the police stop someone on these sort of charges they will often look very hard for other things to charge that person with such as faults with the vehicle ( lights out, bald tyres etc) and anything they can find on him in this case it was a kubotan. He was charged with carrying a weapon when they found it, to be honest I have no sympathy for drunk drivers, he could have killed someone, and finding anything else they can charge them with is acceptable.
However in Day's case the judge deemed it unacceptable and that the kubotan wasn't a weapon so the charge was admonished. 
I've carried one for years and never had a problem though I admit it is unlikely I will be stopped! Carrying one is all very well but is useless unless you know how to use one effectively which is probably the main point of deciding whether to buy one or not. Carrying it because it's 'fashionable or because you are 'into' it is really just naff in my opinion and could well lead to police interest. 
Until we have a case of carrying come to court here in England we have no precedent in law so basically it's up to you.


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## K-man (Oct 19, 2014)

We have similar laws in Australia. Here it is illegal to carry a kubotan as that is classed as an offensive weapon. Adding keys to it makes it a more effective weapon in one way but creates a grey area as to whether it is still an offensive weapon or is it now 'just' a key ring? 

I would suggest that if you had a kubaton on your key ring but weren't involved in any trouble, no one would pay much attention. If you were the one causing trouble and you were holding a kubotan it could be deemed an offensive weapon. 

Interestingly, you can get kubaton sized 'tactical' flashlights. The same law could be applied. I'm not sure how many, if any, cases here have gone to court. As *Tez* said, until there is case law to refer to it really is hypothetical.
:asian:


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## Paul_D (Oct 20, 2014)

In the UK the term 'offensive weapon' is defined as: *"any article made or adapted for use to causing injury to the person, or intended by the person having it with him for such use"*.

A Kubotan was invented to be used as a weapon, so while I'm not a lawyer to me that doesn't even fall in to a grey area in UK law.  You are slightly safer carrying a Kubotan sized flash light, as then you only fall into the *or intended by the person having it with him for such use* category, and hence the burden of proof then lies with the Police to prove your intention.

Flash lights of course have the advantage that you can shine them in eyes and monetarily blind, then scraper.


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## Tez3 (Oct 20, 2014)

Paul_D said:


> In the UK the term 'offensive weapon' is defined as: *"any article made or adapted for use to causing injury to the person, or intended by the person having it with him for such use"*.
> 
> A Kubotan was invented to be used as a weapon, so while I'm not a lawyer to me that doesn't even fall in to a grey area in UK law.  You are slightly safer carrying a Kubotan sized flash light, as then you only fall into the *or intended by the person having it with him for such use* category, and hence the burden of proof then lies with the Police to prove your intention.
> 
> Flash lights of course have the advantage that you can shine them in eyes and monetarily blind, then scraper.



It does fall into a grey area I'm afraid. If it is attached to a keyring with keys on and the person has shown no indications of having it for 'violent' purposes it would be hard to arrest under English law because 'intent' would have to be taken into consideration. The case cited was under Scottish law and got thrown out of court. Many police officers wouldn't know what it was and it's uses, many of my colleagues didn't.


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## Paul_D (Oct 20, 2014)

You don't have to be afraid   It's just my opinion, like I said "to me" it's not a grey area, but I'm not a lawyer, I just choose not to risk it just in case.  

To indulge in some light hearted Reductio ad absurdum, if I hang keys off a Nunchuka that doesn't legalise it.  But then, I am an okinawan rice farmer, so I need my chucks for by job ;-)


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## Tez3 (Oct 20, 2014)

Paul_D said:


> You don't have to be afraid   It's just my opinion, like I said "to me" it's not a grey area, but I'm not a lawyer, I just choose not to risk it just in case.
> 
> To indulge in some light hearted Reductio ad absurdum, if I hang keys off a Nunchuka that doesn't legalise it.  But then, I am an okinawan rice farmer, so I need my chucks for by job ;-)



Very good lol. When I say 'I'm afraid' I'm being the polite English person lol. It does depend too on what sort of kubotan one has, something with a very nasty point rather than a nicely turned piece of wood isn't going to look good if you are stopped for behaving suspiciously. it depends too on who you are, a nice ( in my case that's hypothetical before anyone says anything)  middle aged English woman in the Dales doesn't have a lot of problems with being stopped by the police whereas a young lad on inner city streets will have. With English law especially 'intent' is everything, it's often hard to prove intent, judges tend not to like that you arrested someone because you felt they were going to do something, they like a bit of proof, intent is the hardest thing to prove though it can be may easier by criminals when they carry everything needed for a burglary including wearing a balaclava rofl. 
Whether or not it's illegal it's probably not a good idea to carry one if you don't know how to or aren't prepared to use it, like knives it can be taken off you and used against you so some training and preparedness would be advised.


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## Paul_D (Oct 20, 2014)

Tez3 said:


> When I say 'I'm afraid' I'm being the polite English person lol.


I know, that's why I put the smiley after it.


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## Tez3 (Oct 20, 2014)

Paul_D said:


> I know, that's why I put the smiley after it.



I know you know but we have to explain to those nice young people the Americans. :rofl:


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## K-man (Oct 20, 2014)

Tez3 said:


> Whether or not it's illegal it's probably not a good idea to carry one if you don't know how to or aren't prepared to use it, like knives it can be taken off you and used against you so some training and preparedness would be advised.


Certainly you need to know how to use it and where to use it for maximum effect but the inherent beauty of up the kubaton, and certainly the one shown,is that it is not the sort of improvised weapon that an untrained person would normally choose. Therein lies the reason that even the police may not recognise it as a weapon. 

As to the magistrate ... "Well, Yer Honour, with me always losing me keys, the kids thought it would be a practical gift to help me find 'em."


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