# Anyone knife throw?



## kenpofighter (Jul 24, 2008)

I would like to learn about knife throwing. I honestly always thought of this as a pretty useless thing to know. But I have always wanted to hike the Appalachian trail and thought that knowing how to throw a knife could come in handy. Anyone got any suggestions about where to learn knife throwing or buy a good throwing knife. (Can you learn from a book, with practice of course? And I know that you can never learn from a book like you can with a real instructor.) Oh and it will be a few years before I ever get a chance to hike that trail.


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## arnisador (Jul 24, 2008)

I have always wanted to get into this. I have throwing knives, but not the time!


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## kenpofighter (Jul 25, 2008)

I guess you also have to have the place.


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## tshadowchaser (Jul 25, 2008)

Never read a book on it but I started throwing knives at about the age of 10 or 12.  My father did not really appreciate my efforts when he found all the holes in the garage door.
If you have the space  I would suggest just obtaining a few good throwing knives and a few other knives that you do not mind messing up, then start throwing and see if you can figure some of it out.  
Basically all knives will rotate a half turn every X number of feet. Learning what that distance is for each knife  and learning that super hard throws will vary the distance by a certain amount will give you a good start.  Then you will need to work on the various holds  and throwing techniques ( overhand, underhand, etc.). 
Best of luck. It is fun to do


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## KenpoTex (Jul 25, 2008)

While I personally feel that knife throwing is an absolutely worthless pursuit when it comes to self-defense, it is fun.

As tshadowchaser touched on, each knife will perform slightly differently based on the overall weight of the knife, its balance point, how hard you throw it, etc.  The easiest way is just to start experimenting.  Start at about 6 paces, throw the knife, and try to see how it hits.  At first, try for consistency in how hard you throw it...this will make it easier to diagnose what you're doing.  Move forward or back as necessary to find the correct distance.

you might take a look at Mike Janich's "Making it Stick."  It's fairly cheap and might give you some good advice.
http://www.amazon.com/Making-Stick-Improvised-Weapons-Self-Defense/dp/B000OTDOZU


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## terryl965 (Jul 25, 2008)

I agree with Kenpotex I to feel it is worthless in a S.D. type stituation but it is fum.


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## arnisador (Jul 25, 2008)

Yes, it's practicality for self-defense is quite limited, but it's still cool!


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## kaizasosei (Jul 25, 2008)

i practice japanese shurikenjutsu with an emphasis on the boshuriken.

i also  practice throwing knives, screwdrivers, files,,whatever..

i would focus on the halfturn for knife throwing . also practice throwing against the floor for basics...

also, i can explain the no-spin throw quite ok, i think, so if you're interested ill  try to share.

you know you can no-spin throw from super long distances,??  many people can't imagine that it works, but it does.  i can post links to youtube links  for example mumyouan.com

j

j


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## Flying Crane (Jul 25, 2008)

I did experiment with throwing quite a few years ago, basically I did what Tshadowchaser and Kenpotex describe.  Go for consistency, figure out how the knives spin and rotate, work with different grips and stuff and just play and have fun.


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## stickarts (Jul 25, 2008)

I have some pretty cool (and sharp) throwing knives that a student gave me and I have started to dabble with them but haven't had a lot of experience with them yet.


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## theletch1 (Jul 25, 2008)

My wife and I have a good target set up in our back yard.  I bought her some Gil Hibbens knives a few years ago to throw. I have a tomahawk and a Viking hand axe that we throw as well. Lately I've gotten into throwing the axe I use to split wood with.  The larger the weapon the better I quess it would be for SD... if you wanted to club them with it from a distance.  It is a lot of fun on a lazy afternoon to kill some time, though.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Jul 25, 2008)

I spend a little bit of my martial time on knife throwing.  It is a specialty skill that *requires time spent*.  However we humans have been throwing things or shooting things at each other for a long time so it does have some merit.  Most of the experienced knife throwers who study it for self defense though will tell you never throw without another one in hand.  It is though in the end a minor self defense skill set.


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## kenpofighter (Jul 25, 2008)

> also, i can explain the no-spin throw quite ok, i think, so if you're interested ill  try to share.
> 
> you know you can no-spin throw from super long distances,?? many people can't imagine that it works, but it does. i can post links to youtube links for example mumyouan.com
> 
> ...


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## theletch1 (Jul 25, 2008)

In all seriousness, if you're looking to take down small game you're better off getting really good at throwing rocks than knives.  Sticking a rabbit with a knife will be something like hitting a deer with an arrow.  The chance of a non-fatal strike are higher than a fatal strike and you run the chance of losing your knife.

Here's the knives my wife and I throw for fun.


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## KenpoTex (Jul 25, 2008)

kenpofighter said:


> I would like to know more about how to hold the knife when you throw it, and what kind of knifes can you use. Where would I get a cheap one to start with?
> 
> I understand that this would not be for SD, I was thinking of more like killing a rabbit.


 
For throwing knives, I'd probably start with a set of the Gil Hibben throwers or maybe a Cold Steel "True flight" thrower.

For methods of holding the knife, here are the three ways I've used: handle grip, blade grip, underhand grip (think of throwing a softball)


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## kenpofighter (Jul 25, 2008)

Thanks for your info. This has defiantly given me somethings to think about. As you can well tell I knew nothing about knife throwing, and now, I have a very small glimpse of it. Like anything else you learn best by experience.


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## tshadowchaser (Jul 27, 2008)

The question was asked what knives do you throw.
I started throwing an old bayonet that was one of my first knives. Heavy and awkward but reliable as hell as I never broke it.  Now I throw just about any knife I get my hands on if I feel the construction is strong enough to with stand a miss  
you just never know wha you might need to use


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## CuongNhuka (Jul 27, 2008)

KenpoTex said:


> While I personally feel that knife throwing is an absolutely worthless pursuit when it comes to self-defense, it is fun.


 
Don't Israeli Special Forces practice knife throwing?


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## KenpoTex (Jul 27, 2008)

CuongNhuka said:


> Don't Israeli Special Forces practice knife throwing?


 maybe, I know the Spetsnaz used to...doesn't change anything.  The proper application of a knife in interpersonal combat is to use it to _shank_ the BG...not to throw it at him.


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## theletch1 (Jul 27, 2008)

KenpoTex said:


> maybe, I know the Spetsnaz used to...doesn't change anything.  The proper application of a knife in interpersonal combat is to use it to _shank_ the BG...not to throw it at him.


The Spetznaz also used to carry a spring loaded knife which would shoot the blade over a distance.  If I'm gonna throw my knife at the bad guy it's gonna be as a distraction with one knife so I can close the distance and skewer him with the one still in my hand.


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## CuongNhuka (Jul 27, 2008)

theletch1 said:


> If I'm gonna throw my knife at the bad guy it's gonna be as a distraction with one knife so I can close the distance and skewer him with the one still in my hand.


 
See, that's what I thought of too. It could be used as a distraction, while you close. Or, (as defense of others) could be used to get an attacker to switch target.


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## Flying Crane (Jul 29, 2008)

I live in San Francisco and work not too far from Chinatown so I like to wander thru there on my lunch break.  I happened to notice recently that some shops are selling throwing knives for pretty cheap.  They are stainless steel, made in China, I don't have any idea if these would be considered high quality or not, but if anyone is interested in getting something for cheap to play with, I could pick something up and send it to you.  There is one shop in particular that is closing down because the owner is getting ready to retire, so his stuff is extra cheap.  Just a thought.  Send me a PM if you are interested.


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## thardey (Aug 1, 2008)

I grew up with throwing knives, it goes back in my family for generations - my grandfather bought me my first "set."

It was never intended to be a self-defense tool, however, just a game - like darts. 

Last year, I switched from throwing knives, to spikes. Also, I started learning the "direct-hit" method, in which the knife only rotates 1/4 of a turn before striking, no matter how far away you are.

Two advantages: A.) my "spikes" are 8" nails with the head cut off, and wrapped in chord, so they only cost about $0.25 apiece. It's nothing to lose them in the woods. 

B.) You don't have to count how may half-turns you'll have to use. In fact, where it get harder to consistently get the correct spin on a turning throw as you move back, in a direct-hit throw, it gets easier! (For that reason, sometimes I'll stick to a 1/2 turn throw for less than 10 feet, and switch to a direct-hit throw up until about 45.) It helps to use heavier spikes for the longer throws.


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## Flying Crane (Aug 1, 2008)

thardey said:


> I grew up with throwing knives, it goes back in my family for generations - my grandfather bought me my first "set."
> 
> It was never intended to be a self-defense tool, however, just a game - like darts.
> 
> ...


 

Do tell, about this method...


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## kenpofighter (Aug 1, 2008)

I don't understand about the rotating 1/2 of a turn or 1/4 of a turn. Like I said I know nothing about throwing. Can someone explain this to me?


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## thardey (Aug 1, 2008)

Flying Crane said:


> Do tell, about this method...





kenpofighter said:


> I don't understand about the rotating 1/2 of a turn or 1/4 of a turn. Like I said I know nothing about throwing. Can someone explain this to me?



Oh, boy, the limits of textual medium! Let me try.


Okay, 1/2 turns, full turns etc, to start. When you throw from short range, say, you begin to practice by throwing a knife into the ground in front of your feet, you'll find that you have to grip the knife by the blade. (How exactly you hold it depends on your style, and whether it's a dagger.) When you throw it, the knife will leave your hand with the handle pointing toward the target, rotate 1/2 of a turn, and will strike the target with the tip. 

If you move back (typically about 3 feet) you'll have to hold the handle to hit the target. The knife will make one full turn (point-handle-point) and strike the target. Move back another 3 feet, and you switch to the blade again for a 1 1/2 turn throw. Continue until you can't achieve consistency with your rotations, and the knife hits at random points through the rotation. (Usually what happens in the movies, except they always magically land in the correct position.) This is why knife-throwing is more of a sport than an actual self-defense. You have to learn to throw from certain distances. In between those distances is very hard to learn consistently. (3' and 6' is easy - 5' is extremely difficult.)

Now, for the 1/4 turn, or "direct hit" method. We get technical. 

For any throw, whether it be a baseball, knife, rock, whatever, we don't release the object when it is in front of us - or we would throw it directly into our feet. We release when we are at the very top of the rotation of the throw. (Think of throwing a football.) That way the force goes forward, toward your target.

So, technically, whenever we release a knife for throwing, it actually spins an extra 1/4 of a turn while in the air. A 1/2 turn throw actually leaves your hand with the handle pointing straight up in the air, and rotates 3/4 of a turn before it strikes.

With this in mind, we've bought ourselves a extra 1/4 of a turn to fit the throw. We need this, because the momentum of the throw itself gives a turning motion to the knife. So, now we eliminate the extra spins!

To do this: balance the spike (it's easier if the spike is balanced at the center, but not necessary) at the end of two fingers, with the handle resting in your palm. It's recommended that you use the two middle fingers, but I prefer the first two fingers, like throwing a baseball. Finding the point of balance is critical - eventually you'll find it instinctively.

To throw, you're trying to push the center of balance  (COB) of the spike towards the target. The natural rotation imparted by the throw will cause the spike to continue to rotate slowly. This is good for about 10 feet. The spike will leave your hand with the point straight up and down, and will slowly drop to face the target. There you go - direct hit!

Each person will have a different "beginning point" for the "natural" part of the throw - that is, a throw from the COB. Move forward and back until you find yours. (Throw from here about 1,000 times.)

Now, to adjust for distance. If you want to move back, slide your fingers until the spike (aka bo-shiruken) is slightly point-heavy. This will counteract the natural rotation of the throw, and will cause the spike to rotate more slowly. If you go too far, the spike won't rotate at all, but will "float" towards the target with the point straight up and down.

Since 1/4 turn spread out over 20 feet is pretty slow, its not much different than 30 feet, or 40 feet. So, the farther you get away, the less accurate of a judge of distance you have to be! Also, the arc of the throw begins to correlate to the amount of spin, so that the point stays at the lead.

If you want to move closer than 10 feet, balance the spike so that it is handle-heavy. This will push the blade a little more, and cause the spike to rotate faster. In this way you can be touching the target with one hand, and sticking it with the other. I find that my most difficult distance is about 4 feet. (Harder than 40, actually.) It's here that I sometime switch to a 1/2 turn (actually a 3/4 turn) throw.

After a while, you will learn the proper balance for certain distances.

Questions?

I would post a video, but it wouldn't help!


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## kenpofighter (Aug 1, 2008)

thardey said:


> If you move back (typically about 3 feet) you'll have to hold the handle to hit the target. The knife will make one full turn (point-handle-point) and strike the target. Move back another 3 feet, and you switch to the blade again for a 1 1/2 turn throw. Continue until you can't achieve consistency with your rotations, and the knife hits at random points through the rotation.



Thanks *a lot* for all the explaining! One quick question...So basically every three feet the knife should make one full turn plus the extra 1/4 after we create a large enough distance?


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## Josh Oakley (Aug 2, 2008)

This is why I do an underhand spear-style throw. Only effective up to 30 feet but it doesn't turn.


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## thardey (Aug 2, 2008)

kenpofighter said:


> Thanks *a lot* for all the explaining! One quick question...So basically every three feet the knife should make one full turn plus the extra 1/4 after we create a large enough distance?



One full turn every 6 feet, for me. It depends on how the knife was made, as well as your throwing style.


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## thardey (Aug 2, 2008)

Josh Oakley said:


> This is why I do an underhand spear-style throw. Only effective up to 30 feet but it doesn't turn.



Never tried it underhand - I could definitely see the advantages, though!


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## BLACK LION (Aug 18, 2008)

I do throw knives, ever since i was a small kid .... although I do not train to throw my primary knife tool....  my secondary or designated throw knife is perfectly balanced for that purpose....  I also use smaller spikes that work great as a deterent and are more easily concealed...  
I use a set of army ranger throwing knives which are budget minded, perfectly balanced , double edged and thicker than most knives... especially throwers.... they can take any abuse you have for them.....      





combatknifethrowing.com


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## BLACK LION (Aug 20, 2008)

the way i learned is.... there are two ways to grip the knife by the handle or by the blade ....which one you use is up to you but within 6 yards i wouldnt even throw from the blade because it has to at-least rotate halfway to get the blade forward and it could mean a miss ....  so... i throw from the handle within 18 feet of the target....  your rotation will depend on how many fingers grip the handle... as you move away or as distance increases you decrease the amount of fingers on the handle...at around 6 yards or 18 feet you will have a pinch grip on the handle....   

there are all sorts of throws up close  sideways/upwards/ downwards but no matter how you do it the same principles apply....  the main one is not allowing a flick of the rist.... you should open the hand as if you are releasing the knife or dropping it... this is done at almost the exact same time the arm reaches its fully extended and locked position ....  this applies no matter how you throw


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## elder999 (Aug 20, 2008)

BLACK LION said:


> the way i learned is.... there are two ways to grip the knife by the handle or by the blade ....which one you use is up to you but within 6 yards i wouldnt even throw from the blade because it has to at-least rotate halfway to get the blade forward and it could mean a miss .... so... i throw from the handle within 18 feet of the target.... your rotation will depend on how many fingers grip the handle... as you move away or as distance increases you decrease the amount of fingers on the handle...at around 6 yards or 18 feet you will have a pinch grip on the handle....
> 
> there are all sorts of throws up close sideways/upwards/ downwards but no matter how you do it the same principles apply.... the main one is not allowing a flick of the rist.... you should open the hand as if you are releasing the knife or dropping it... this is done at almost the exact same time the arm reaches its fully extended and locked position .... this applies no matter how you throw


 

I throw, and, while things might work this way for you, your physics is wrong.

I find it's best to throw the knife based on its balance. While throwers are good for learning to throw, and generally balanced so that one can throw gripping handle or blade,  there are a few more...practical blades that make good throwers as well. Whether you grip the blade or the handle is dependent upon the balance of the blade-you want to throw with the heavy end forward for rotation. 

Number of rotations is wholly an effect of point of release and distance, nothing more. Number of fingers gripping might correlate to this, depending upon the mechanics of your throwing motion, but how many times the blade will turn depend upon when you let it go and the distance from the target.In any case, I grip with all four fingers at any distance. Number of rotations is in direct proportion to distance and throw mechanics. Generally, a release with the weapon pointing straight up is most desirable for an overhand throw.

This also corresponds with hatchets and tomahawks, btw.

One can throw knives sidearm, and about the same rules apply. You can also use a "shot-putting" sort of motion, and throw the blade without rotation so that the point sticks, but this is generally less accurate....

I love to throw kukris, even if they aren't meant to be thrown......


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## BLACK LION (Aug 20, 2008)

maybe i did nt explain myself correctly...I apologize

i found that it becomes more of a presonal style in the end... I used some of the popular methods and hound them not to work... it depepnds entirely on the blade.... i always used regular knives or equally balanced ones.... if the blade is heavier like most throwers it would be thrown from the blade but what about within 5 feet????


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