# here we go again



## fist of fury (Jul 29, 2002)

An excellent waste of taxpayer money.


Fast-food makers sued 
By Robert Lusetich 
July 27, 2002 

THIS could be the mother of all class actions. A group of obese Americans is taking on the fast-food giants, claiming they knowingly served products which made them overweight and damaged their health. 

Taking his lead from the successful litigation of tobacco companies over the past decade, Washington lawyer Samuel Hirsch has filed a lawsuit against McDonald's, Wendy's, KFC and Burger King alleging they, and not their customers, are responsible for the consequences of consuming fatty foods. 

The latest estimate is that a third of American adults are technically obese. 

Among those Mr Hirsch represents is Caesar Barber, a 125kg 56-year-old maintenance supervisor from New York, who alleges his array of illnesses were caused by an "addiction" to fast food, which he consumed four or five times a week, for years. 

"My doctor said it was killing me and I don't want to die," Mr Barber said, claiming he ate the food "out of necessity", although he stopped in 1996 because his health was deteriorating. 

"I ate it more often than not because I was single," he said. 

"It was quick and I'm not a very good cook. I always thought it was good for you. I never thought there was anything wrong with it." 

Mr Hirsch accuses the fast- food companies of "irresponsible and deceptive behaviour" for not supplying proper nutritional information or offering enough healthy alternatives. 

He alleges also a "de facto addiction" for the poor and children. 

"You don't need nicotine or an illegal drug to create an addiction, they're creating a craving," Hirsch said. 

"I think we'll find that the fast-food industry has not been totally upfront with their customers." 

The reference to nicotine is by no means coincidental. Many of the legal forces behind the decades-long war on tobacco -- won in the '90s when the big tobacco companies made multi-billion dollar settlements with governments -- have been mulling a similar attack on fast food to pay for the health consequences of obesity. 

Kelly Brownell, head of the Yale Centre for Eating and Weight Disorders, who has advocated taxing fatty foods and subsidising healthy foods said recently that he saw "no difference between Ronald McDonald and Joe Camel". 

"We have to start thinking of this in a more militant way," he said. 

The National Restaurant Association is preparing to fight, calling the lawsuit "senseless, baseless and ridiculous ... a nationwide ambulance chase against the restaurant industry in response to hysteria over the nation's expanding


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## hand2handCombat (Jul 29, 2002)

i dont believe the restaurants are responsible for ppl being obese. its the people.

im sick of ppl getting obese then going on a diet and quitting. if the would stop eating the food, tjhen there wouldnt be a problem


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## RCastillo (Jul 29, 2002)

I never did  get notice of a "Universal pattern" T shirt!

I griped about it several times, but to no avail!

Guess it's my turn to sue.:rofl:


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## Eraser (Jul 29, 2002)

Hey all..

All i can say about this man is that  he's a money hungry hound...  
who need to get his lazy *SS to the gym or heck get into MA.. and get some  exercise, besides the arm work out that he gets daily from rolling down his car window at the drive thru..

GRRRRRRRRRRR people like that really IRK me!!!
:soapbox: 
I'm all done now..


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## Dronak (Jul 29, 2002)

This stuff is pathetic.  I don't think I even really want to get into it.  Eating fast food "out of necessity", the companies make people eat fatty foods, he thought it was good for him (how they'd make him think that?), claiming being single and not a good cook as an excuse, etc.  It's ridiculous.  Everybody's a victim nowadays, no one wants to take responsibility for their own actions.  You're overweight or obese?  How about eating healthier and exercising more?  Assuming you don't have a medical condition that causes you to be overweight, that's generally the way to fix a weight problem.  Take some responsibility for your own lifestyle and change it, make it better if you want to be healthier.  Don't try to pass the buck and blame someone else for the choices you made.  I really hate stuff like this.


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## deadhand31 (Jul 29, 2002)

I can use words like that, because two months ago I was 305 lbs, and after two months of laying off the fast food, stopping the sodas, and eating responsibly, I'm down to 270, and I'm still losing weight. Classes are a helluva lot easier, and I don't find myself out of breath climbing the stairs at work. 

One day, I was reading an article about the epididemic of obesity facing this country. I decided that I was not going to be a statistic. True, I could have joined in on this class action lawsuit, but that would qualify me as nothing but a complete #%@#$% idiot!!!! I know that there's a difference between a big mac and a salad! I know that it's better to drink a glass of OJ rather than a super-sized soda!! The only way people in this country are going to get healthy, and stay healthy, is by making permanent lifestyle changes. That means eating a nutritious, low-fat diet, and cutting back on the greasy foods. The people who are in this lawsuit are brain dead, immense fat freaks, who should be dragged out in public, have pig noses glued to their face, and laughed at. I normally don't advocate ridicule because of differences, but these people have rendered themselves unworthy of any type of respect through their act of sheer stupidity. Perhaps if they were thinner, they wouldn't have to sue the company to pay for their medical bills that they got from stuffing their faces with globs of fatty junk. Chances are, if they win this ridiculous lawsuit, they'll use it to stuff their pudgy faces with more junk, and then sue the lawyers who gave them the money to buy it.

Some people may think I'm out of line here, but so was the needle on my scale 2 months ago.


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## Kirk (Jul 29, 2002)

> _Originally posted by RCastillo _
> 
> *I never did  get notice of a "Universal pattern" T shirt!
> 
> ...



Sit tight ... I'm working on it.   I've found a couple suppliers of
the pattern being NICELY embroidered on a shirt.  I'm looking
for a supplier of shirts, in SMALL quantities, priced low enough
for me to get a little something for my trouble.  If in awhile I can't
find that supplier, then I'll have you mail me a shirt, and I'll get
the pattern embroidered on IT for like 2 bucks plus shipping.


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## RCastillo (Jul 29, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Kirk _
> 
> *
> 
> ...



Good, I'll put my lawyers on hold.....for now!:soapbox:


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## Chris from CT (Jul 30, 2002)

Why is it that nobady takes responsibility for themselves?  If something goes wrong its always someone else's fault.  "Oh No, it can't be my fault."    This kind of stuff drives me up the wall!  :angry:

Remember that crap about the person who spilled coffee on themselves and sued?   No employee spilt it on you.  You were clumsy. Deal with it!

I could go on ranting all day long about this stupidity.  :cuss:
Just Stupid!!!!


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## girlychuks (Jul 30, 2002)

I think non-airbrushed  people should be able to sue supermodels if they can't get laid.


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## Kirk (Jul 30, 2002)

> _Originally posted by girlychuks _
> 
> *I think non-airbrushed  people should be able to sue supermodels if they can't get laid. *




ROFL, I like the way you think .. I'm calling the law offices of
Maloney and Maloney right now!


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## Seig (Aug 1, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Kirk _
> 
> *
> 
> ...


Contact me about that off list.  I would definately be interested.


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## Rich Parsons (Aug 1, 2002)

> _Originally posted by fist of fury _
> 
> *An excellent waste of taxpayer money.
> 
> ...



:soapbox: 
Well, to add in my two cents to this discussion.

First, I think this is crazy, but . . .

Go to obesity.org , to calculate your own BMI (* Body Mass Index *)

I am 6'3" and 270-275 lbs. AKA 190.5 cms and 125 kg. This gives me a BMI of 34. Quote from Obesity.org: "Being obese and being overweight are not the same condition. A BMI of 30 or greater is considered obese and a BMI between 25 - 29.9 is considered overweight. "

So, I am now obese according to these official charts. Just a small note: I recently got back from Japan and I qualify to be a 'Rookie' Sumo wrestler. 

I am not making light of the weight problem in the US or elsewhere, but come on people should take responsibility for their own actions.

I am obese according to the charts, could I lose a couple of pounds yes, but I have to loose 70 lbs., I think not. 

So, if by the numbers they win, does this mean I can now also join the class action law suit and get money?

Nah, I just could not sleep at night.

Sorry for the ramble

Rich
:soapbox:


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## arnisador (Aug 2, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Rich Parsons _
> 
> * I recently got back from Japan and I qualify to be a 'Rookie' Sumo wrestler. *



You won't be leaving Modern Arnis in favor of Sumo wrestling, will you?

I've seen Mr. Parsons in person and he most certainly does not appear 'obese' by any means.


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## lvwhitebir (Aug 2, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Rich Parsons _
> *
> First, I think this is crazy, but . . .
> 
> ...



Remember that BMI is only based on weight and height.  Not on what the body is actually made of.  Linebackers with 4% body fat may have a high BMI because they have so much muscle weighing them down.

The BMI charts are there for the normal Joe, not athletes.

All this means that I'm not obese, I just have a thick layer of muscle in me somewhere (*sucking in gut*)...

   Whitebirch


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## Dronak (Aug 2, 2002)

That body mass index (BMI) is a rather simplistic way of making a measurement of obesity.  It only uses height and weight, nothing else.  There's not even something to account for body type.  Two people of the same height, say, but one with a thin build and another with a larger build will not have the same weight, and thus different BMIs.  But both could be perfectly healthy because of their difference in body build.  And as lvwhitebir notes, body fat percentage affects things, too.  Muscle weighs more than fat as I recall, so someone very muscular with low body fat could be perfectly healthy, but the BMI might say this person is overweight or obese because it only looks at height and weight and that's it.  While the BMI may be a nice, quick guideline, it can't possibly be one of the most accurate measurements out there.

FWIW, since I've lost some weight, I expect due to my taking up MA and getting a lot more regular hard exercise, I now weigh about 160lbs (about 72.5 kg).  With my height of about 5'8" (almost 173cm), my BMI is 24; healthy, but on the high side of the range.  I used to be closer to 170lbs which would have made a BMI of 26; overweight, but barely so.  I think Rich Parsons has a point -- generalizing, most of us can probably afford to lose some weight.  Enough to reach what the BMI considers healthy?  I think that's debatable.  If you really want to know if you're overweight or obese, you should use something more accurate than this simple BMI.


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## Nightingale (Aug 5, 2002)

if I remember correctly, one of the things the lawsuit was talking about is that fast food companies were outright LYING about the content of their foods.  If you ask a restaurant, they will give you a nutritional guide with all the calorie and fat info for each product they sell, and the suit was alleging that these were not honest.  The fat content was not measured with the food prepared normally.   For example, if a burger was normally prepared with mayo, dressing, lettuce, tomato, onions, and pickles, the fat measurement comes out to say... 37 grams of fat.  What the companies were doing is listing the fat content of a PLAIN burger, no mayo or sauce or veggies, which significantly dropped the fat content to say, around 18 grams of fat.  They didn't tell people they did this, so when people thought they were only eating 18 grams of fat, they were actually getting 37.  That was the issue.  If you count fat grams or carbos in your diet, this stuff can really matter.


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## lvwhitebir (Aug 6, 2002)

> _Originally posted by nightingale8472 _
> 
> *if I remember correctly, one of the things the lawsuit was talking about is that fast food companies were outright LYING about the content of their foods.  If you ask a restaurant, they will give you a nutritional guide with all the calorie and fat info for each product they sell, and the suit was alleging that these were not honest.  The fat content was not measured with the food prepared normally.   *



Now that's something to sue about!  (Too bad I didn't see it first!)

I sure hope that's the real issue, because if it's just as the article above is worded, then the guy sounds like an idiot that the judge should kick in the butt and sentence to hard labor to whip him into shape.

   WhiteBirch


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## Rich Parsons (Aug 6, 2002)

> _Originally posted by arnisador _
> 
> *
> 
> ...



Arnisador,

Sumo did tempt me, but the uniform made me think twice.  

I am in FMA and Modern Arnis for the long haul

Rich


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## Rich Parsons (Aug 6, 2002)

> _Originally posted by lvwhitebir _
> 
> *
> 
> ...



Whitebirch,

Hey, I agree with you, this is why I think it is crap for the law suit.
The figures do not lie, but Liers sure can figure. I Figure the people who put together the stats do not look at the % fat or % muscle of the person/people in question.

Just my opinion ( That sounds like it is similar to yours  *)

Rich


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## Rich Parsons (Aug 6, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Dronak _
> 
> *That body mass index (BMI) is a rather simplistic way of making a measurement of obesity.  It only uses height and weight, nothing else.  There's not even something to account for body type.  Two people of the same height, say, but one with a thin build and another with a larger build will not have the same weight, and thus different BMIs.  But both could be perfectly healthy because of their difference in body build.  And as lvwhitebir notes, body fat percentage affects things, too.  Muscle weighs more than fat as I recall, so someone very muscular with low body fat could be perfectly healthy, but the BMI might say this person is overweight or obese because it only looks at height and weight and that's it.  While the BMI may be a nice, quick guideline, it can't possibly be one of the most accurate measurements out there.
> 
> FWIW, since I've lost some weight, I expect due to my taking up MA and getting a lot more regular hard exercise, I now weigh about 160lbs (about 72.5 kg).  With my height of about 5'8" (almost 173cm), my BMI is 24; healthy, but on the high side of the range.  I used to be closer to 170lbs which would have made a BMI of 26; overweight, but barely so.  I think Rich Parsons has a point -- generalizing, most of us can probably afford to lose some weight.  Enough to reach what the BMI considers healthy?  I think that's debatable.  If you really want to know if you're overweight or obese, you should use something more accurate than this simple BMI. *



Dronak,

Thank you for clearly stating what I tried too in my Rant.

Good points 

Rich
:asian:


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## Dronak (Aug 6, 2002)

Rich, I've been following sumo for a couple years now and at some point along the way I checked the entry requirements for new recruits.  I would have just made the height and weight requirements, but not the age one (too old to start).  It's kind of interesting to think of someone like me starting in sumo and then ending up like some of the big names.    As for "the figures do not lie, but Liers sure can figure" that's something my dad used to say, but in a slightly shorter form -- figures don't lie but liars do figure.  Basically, if you do enough looking and selection and whatnot you can find a set of figures/data that will support just about any hypothesis.  Of course in order to do so it usually means you have a rotten data set with horrible error bars and no real validity, but if people don't pay attention to that sort of thing, you can get them with it.  And I'm glad my previous comments helped although I don't think I was adding much new information.


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## lvwhitebir (Aug 7, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Rich Parsons _
> 
> *I Figure the people who put together the stats do not look at the % fat or % muscle of the person/people in question.
> *



I think the US government originally went to the BMI as a very easy way for the average Joe to find out if they're overweight or not.  I've heard recently that they're going back to %Fat instead because BMI doesn't take into account what the mass is.

As long as people stopping looking at their scale and notice their body fat percentage more, then I'm happy.  I read an article recently saying that fat people that are more fit are more likely to live longer than thin people who are unfit.  This gives a lot more credence to the issue of FITNESS than FATNESS.

Back on topic, anyone have more information on the content of the lawsuit?  Is it really the misinformation about the food's content or is this guy just blowing smoke?

   WhiteBirch


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