# What are the most effective styles of Karate?



## BmillerWarrior (Nov 22, 2017)

I want to know what are the most effective styles of Karate? I know all styles of Karate are effective in there own respective way but in your opinions what are the most effective styles? What style is most devastating and or what are the devastating styles of Karate?


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## Paul_D (Nov 22, 2017)

Effective for what purpose?  Winning competition throphies, scoring points, improving fitness, self protection?


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## Gerry Seymour (Nov 22, 2017)

BmillerWarrior said:


> I want to know what are the most effective styles of Karate? I know all styles of Karate are effective in there own respective way but in your opinions what are the most effective styles? What style is most devastating and or what are the devastating styles of Karate?


That's going to vary far more by school than by style.


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## BmillerWarrior (Nov 22, 2017)

Fitness and self protection purposes.


Paul_D said:


> Effective for what purpose?  Winning competition throphies, scoring points, improving fitness, self protection?[/QUOTE Fitness and self protection


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## Paul_D (Nov 22, 2017)

gpseymour said:


> That's going to vary far more by school than by style.


And purpose of training.  A school that concentrates on winning Team Kata competitions isn't going to be the best place for Self Protection, and vice Verda.


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## Bill Mattocks (Nov 22, 2017)

gpseymour said:


> That's going to vary far more by school than by style.



By school and by instructor and by student, as well.


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## pgsmith (Nov 22, 2017)

Whichever one you practice at every day will be the most effective. If a person enjoys going to the dojo and practicing what they've learned, they will continue going and practice daily. If they do not enjoy going to the dojo, and don't like practicing what they've learned, they will only go intermittently, and will end up dropping out eventually. Pretty much any style of karate will beat someone that has dropped out due to lack of enthusiasm.

  The better thing to do, in my opinion, is to investigate fully all of the options in your area, then go and visit all of them. Try and talk to the students and the instructors, then decide which one YOU liked the most. You can always ask the experienced people on here what they think of an individual school, but the most important thing is to find one you will be happy training in.

  It can be the most devastatingly effective and brutal style in creation. If you don't like going, it won't do you much good.


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## Bill Mattocks (Nov 22, 2017)

BmillerWarrior said:


> I want to know what are the most effective styles of Karate? I know all styles of Karate are effective in there own respective way but in your opinions what are the most effective styles? What style is most devastating and or what are the devastating styles of Karate?



With all due respect, the question cannot be answered.  You want to know what style of karate is the 'most devastating' and the only answer possible is 'it depends'.

You are not going to get an answer from anyone that even comes close to answering what you're asking.  At most, you will get a rote list of people's favorites, which proves nothing.


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## Paul_D (Nov 22, 2017)

pgsmith said:


> Whichever one you practice at every day will be the most effective. If a person enjoys going to the dojo and practicing what they've learned, they will continue going and practice daily.


That's my point, it won't be the most effective the focus is an area that is different to what you want.

You can go to a school that wins lots competitions but that's not going to help you with self protection. Vice Versa a school that focuses primarily on practical self protection isn't going to be the most effective for you if your aim is to score points and win competitions.


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## BmillerWarrior (Nov 22, 2017)

let me ask another question. What are the "Hardest Styles" of Karate? Also what styles provide practical self protection? I dont care about tournys or competitions.


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## Bill Mattocks (Nov 22, 2017)

BmillerWarrior said:


> let me ask another question. What are the "Hardest Styles" of Karate?



Again, the answer is 'it depends'.  Many styles are known to use hard techniques.  Goju Ryu might be one, but so is Isshin Ryu, and Kyukushin.  Many others.

I think my question would be why do you want to know?  What is it you seek?

The founder of my style (Isshin Ryu) is said to have asked his students which of several empty bottles were the 'best'.  His students gave various answers, based on their ability to hold more or less, thicker or thinner glass, stable bases resistant to tipping, usefulness for other things like weapons, even how attractive they were.  His answer to them was that there was no one 'best' bottle.  They were all perfect for their intended purpose.


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## Gerry Seymour (Nov 22, 2017)

BmillerWarrior said:


> let me ask another question. What are the "Hardest Styles" of Karate? Also what styles provide practical self protection? I dont care about tournys or competitions.


Karate, in general, is fairly "hard". I think the closest we might come to a possible solid answer is Kyokushin. They have a reputation for sparring pretty hard, which is a factor in how "devastating" the resulting skill set will be. There are other styles that can easily be as hard, and there are almost certainly some schools in Shotokan, Isshin, Uechi, Goju, American Freestyle, etc. that are harder than some Kyokushin schools. That's why I said it would vary more by school than by style, though it is true the some styles have a deserved reputation for being a bit harder.


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## JR 137 (Nov 22, 2017)

If you’re looking for styles of karate to look into, I’d look into Enshin karate, along with what’s been mentioned here.  Enshin doesn’t get enough exposure IMO.  Think of Kyokushin with elements of Judo thrown in...


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## Martial D (Nov 22, 2017)

BmillerWarrior said:


> I want to know what are the most effective styles of Karate? I know all styles of Karate are effective in there own respective way but in your opinions what are the most effective styles? What style is most devastating and or what are the devastating styles of Karate?



What kind of car is the best for racing?

The one with the best driver.


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## JR 137 (Nov 22, 2017)

Martial D said:


> What kind of car is the best for racing?
> 
> The one with the best driver.


And the one that goes really fast in straight lines and around turns.


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## Steve (Nov 23, 2017)

Martial D said:


> What kind of car is the best for racing?
> 
> The one with the best driver.


Errr... provided the cars are suitable for the type of race, maybe.


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## Gerry Seymour (Nov 23, 2017)

JR 137 said:


> If you’re looking for styles of karate to look into, I’d look into Enshin karate, along with what’s been mentioned here.  Enshin doesn’t get enough exposure IMO.  Think of Kyokushin with elements of Judo thrown in...


That’s intense. Nobody is going to accuse the folks in those competitions of being soft.


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## Gerry Seymour (Nov 23, 2017)

Steve said:


> Errr... provided the cars are suitable for the type of race, maybe.


Yeah, put the best driver in a ‘77 VW Rabbit, and the second best in a MB C230. Unless there is a huge discrepancy in skill, the best driver will lose badly.


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## hoshin1600 (Nov 23, 2017)

gpseymour said:


> Yeah, put the best driver in a ‘77 VW Rabbit, and the second best in a MB C230. Unless there is a huge discrepancy in skill, the best driver will lose badly.


Having gone through a few NASCAR driving schools.  Fear is a factor as well as the track.   I have seen some people who couldn't get the car going over normal driving speeds due to anxiety and fear when the car itself was capable of doing twice the speed they were traveling on that particular track.
But we were all normal people not pro drivers.


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## Gerry Seymour (Nov 23, 2017)

hoshin1600 said:


> Having gone through a few NASCAR driving schools.  Fear is a factor as well as the track.   I have seen some people who couldn't get the car going over normal driving speeds due to anxiety and fear when the car itself was capable of doing twice the speed they were traveling on that particular track.
> But we were all normal people not pro drivers.


Agreed. That's why I added the condition of not having a huge skill discrepancy. If you put me in the C230 and an elite rally driver in the Rabbit, I'm not sure the car is the deciding factor (as long as the Rabbit doesn't break down, and mine never did). But if you put two experienced rally drivers in there, the car will be the deciding factor.


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## JR 137 (Nov 23, 2017)

gpseymour said:


> That’s intense. Nobody is going to accuse the folks in those competitions of being soft.


In all fairness, those guys and women are the top fighters in the top Enshin competition, so they’re not exactly the average karateka from Enshin.

I’ve got a bit of a man crush on Enshin though.  They seem to have long and close range covered quite well, and what they’re doing seems to be realistic and not leaving much to the imagination.  They cover ground fighting too, but it’s not to the BJJ extent and it’s not within the competition rules. It’s basically get the opponent off their feet and stay on yours by either striking, sweeping, or throwing.  I’d imagine the ground fighting approach is initiate a choke or joint lock as quickly as possible and get back out rather than an all-out Jiu-Jitsu match.


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## Steve (Nov 23, 2017)

gpseymour said:


> Agreed. That's why I added the condition of not having a huge skill discrepancy. If you put me in the C230 and an elite rally driver in the Rabbit, I'm not sure the car is the deciding factor (as long as the Rabbit doesn't break down, and mine never did). But if you put two experienced rally drivers in there, the car will be the deciding factor.


Is it a drag race?  I think you win.


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## BmillerWarrior (Nov 23, 2017)

Unfortunately in the Dallas area we surprisingly don't have Kyokushin or Enshin Karate available


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## Gerry Seymour (Nov 23, 2017)

JR 137 said:


> In all fairness, those guys and women are the top fighters in the top Enshin competition, so they’re not exactly the average karateka from Enshin.
> 
> I’ve got a bit of a man crush on Enshin though.  They seem to have long and close range covered quite well, and what they’re doing seems to be realistic and not leaving much to the imagination.  They cover ground fighting too, but it’s not to the BJJ extent and it’s not within the competition rules. It’s basically get the opponent off their feet and stay on yours by either striking, sweeping, or throwing.  I’d imagine the ground fighting approach is initiate a choke or joint lock as quickly as possible and get back out rather than an all-out Jiu-Jitsu match.


They use kicks more effectively up close than most, too. Makes me jealous. I’ve always wanted to be a kicker (soccer background), but have never been flexible enough to use the skill at a high level.


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## Gerry Seymour (Nov 23, 2017)

Steve said:


> Is it a drag race?  I think you win.


In that case, I have a good shot. Add two turns, and I might already be in trouble. The more turns, and the sharper, the more certainly the driver matters.


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## Gerry Seymour (Nov 23, 2017)

BmillerWarrior said:


> Unfortunately in the Dallas area we surprisingly don't have Kyokushin or Enshin Karate available


That’s part of the reason you got the responses you got early on. Your best bet is to visit what is nearby, and see which school is hardest.


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## JR 137 (Nov 23, 2017)

gpseymour said:


> They use kicks more effectively up close than most, too. Makes me jealous. I’ve always wanted to be a kicker (soccer background), but have never been flexible enough to use the skill at a high level.


I’m pretty sure Joko Ninomiya (Enshin founder) took that from his days in Kyokushin.  Kyokushin kicking has more in common with Muay Thai than most other karate schools IMO.  I think the kicking methodology changed when Oyama sent 3 of his top guys to face the MT guys in Thailand back in the 60s.


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## Danny T (Nov 23, 2017)

BmillerWarrior said:


> Unfortunately in the Dallas area we surprisingly don't have Kyokushin or Enshin Karate available



Genjikai Karate says they have Kyokushin and that the instructor Makio Nishida studied directly under Masutatsu Oyama. (founder of Kyokushinkai)

Genjikai Karate
5801 Curzon Ave
Ste 2M
Fort Worth, TX 76107


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## JR 137 (Nov 23, 2017)

gpseymour said:


> That’s part of the reason you got the responses you got early on. Your best bet is to visit what is nearby, and see which school is hardest.


This right here.

There’s going to be variation from school to school, even within an individual organization.  Case in point... I study Seido Juku.  There’s some schools like mine that are small, the adults and kids are completely separated, and most of us trained bare knuckle in the past.  We hit hard, but the knockdown brawling training is behind us now that we’re older.  Then there’s some dojos are overwhelmingly children and focus more so on tournament style karate.  Then there’s a lot in between.  They syllabus is identical within the entire organization, yet there’s variation on the emphasis.  Where I train is no better nor worse than the other schools, for the most part; where I train is best for me though.  There’s some dojos I wouldn’t train at and others I’d be quite happy at.  And that’s one organization.

Visit whatever’s nearby.  In a place as big as Dallas, I’m sure the right school will have minimal compromises.

As an aside, Ashihara Karate is similar to Enshin.  Possibly less emphasis on throwing, but quite similar.  Ninomiya was Ashihara’s top student before he left to form Enshin.  Maybe there’s an Ashihara school nearby?

Also, Enshin and Ashihara aren’t very visible on the web.  Email them and ask if there’s anyone nearby.  You never know.

Enshin’s honbu dojo
Home - Enshin Karate


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## Charlemagne (Nov 23, 2017)

There are styles of Karate that have gone out of their way to practice with hard contact and which spar regularly, and there are those which have not.  Typically, the style of Kyokushin and its offshoots are the ones which do this.  While there are other styles where individual schools do train with resistance, that is far more rare.  Some are directing you that way, and that is good.

Having said that, I honestly believe that, if you were to find a traditional Okinawan Karate school that does train with full speed and resistance, that would serve you well from a fighting perspective regardless of what system it is (Goju, Wado, Shorin, Shotokan, etc.).  The hard part is finding that.

If "hard contact" is what you are looking for, and from your posts it sounds as if it is, I would suggest seeing if there are any schools from Kyokushin or any of the offshoots of that style in your area (Enshin, Ashihara, etc.).  If not, then take a look at individual schools from other styles and ask about sparring, contact, etc.  There are even branches within Kyokushin, and some, such as Kuokushin-Kan have worked to get head punches, etc. back into the curriculum and in their training, which from a self-defense thing is obviously smart.  
Kyokushin-Kan USA list of their new dojos! - Time to be United!
North America | Branches | IKO Kyokushinkaikan

If you find someone who teaches Shotokan that happens to seek out training with the Machidas, that might be a good fit as well.

In addition, some of the advice you have been given is good.  Check out schools.  Are you comfortable there?  What is their focus?  Is the distance of travel reasonable for you to get there a few days a week?  Is their pricing reasonable for you?  Does their schedule fit well into your schedule?  Can the instructor teach?

So, of those things that other people are mentioning ARE important, so I don't discount them.  But, the other things you mentioned are valid concerns as well, so don't let people talk you out of what you are interested in.
 - If their schedule, location, atmosphere, pricing, etc. is perfect but the system or training method is not what you are looking for, you aren't going to be happy there.
 - If the style and training method is perfect for what you are after, but you can't afford it, or can't get there often, or if they are a bunch of jerks, then you aren't going to stick around anyway.



Where are you located?  That might make it easier for people to help you.


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## Charlemagne (Nov 23, 2017)

Danny T said:


> Genjikai Karate says they have Kyokushin and that the instructor Makio Nishida studied directly under Masutatsu Oyama. (founder of Kyokushinkai)
> 
> Genjikai Karate
> 5801 Curzon Ave
> ...




Makio Nishida

Indeed, he also lists many other instructors.  Notably, he does not list any teaching certifications or rank from any of those people, so that is something that the OP would certainly want to check out.  He could be totally legit, and I certainly hope that is the case.  However, I find it surprising that he does not list those things, though he has two pages of bio about himself.


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## Danny T (Nov 23, 2017)

Charlemagne said:


> Makio Nishida
> 
> Indeed, he also lists many other instructors.  Notably, he does not list any teaching certifications or rank from any of those people, so that is something that the OP would certainly want to check out.  He could be totally legit, and I certainly hope that is the case.  However, I find it surprising that he does not list those things, though he has two pages of bio about himself.


Needs to inquire.
I don't list any certifications or rank in the systems I teach on my site either.


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## Charlemagne (Nov 23, 2017)

Danny T said:


> Needs to inquire.
> I don't list any certifications or rank in the systems I teach on my site either.



Do you list your Reiki status, etc. and have two full pages of bio? LOL  

Like I said, I hope he is legit, but I would certainly want to ask.


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## Danny T (Nov 23, 2017)

Charlemagne said:


> Do you list your Reiki status, etc. and have two full pages of bio? LOL
> 
> Like I said, I hope he is legit, but I would certainly want to ask.


Hmm, are you on my website? Unless my webmaster has recently done something I don't know about you are looking at a site that isn't mine.


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## Charlemagne (Nov 23, 2017)

Danny T said:


> Hmm, are you on my website? Unless my webmaster has recently done something I don't know about you are looking at a site that isn't mine.



I'm talking about him.  Someone who lists their Reiki certification, etc. is probably the kind of guy who would list his MA certs as well.  That's what I am getting at.


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## Martial D (Nov 23, 2017)

gpseymour said:


> Yeah, put the best driver in a ‘77 VW Rabbit, and the second best in a MB C230. Unless there is a huge discrepancy in skill, the best driver will lose badly.





JR 137 said:


> And the one that goes really fast in straight lines and around turns.





Steve said:


> Errr... provided the cars are suitable for the type of race, maybe.



LOL. Don't pretend you didn't get my point you sly devils. You do have a point though. To continue the metaphor, some 'cars' will never win a race against a much better car, no matter how good the driver. From what I've seen though, the Karatemobiles are all pretty comparable.


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## Steve (Nov 23, 2017)

The Mini Cooper won a lot of rallies in the 60s with something like 70hp against cars with 3 to 4 Times the power.


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## Gerry Seymour (Nov 23, 2017)

Steve said:


> The Mini Cooper won a lot of rallies in the 60s with something like 70hp against cars with 3 to 4 Times the power.


Something about those cars and rallies. The power math doesn't make sense, but the did really well. Somehow (weight? suspension? hard to roll? easy to pick up and port on your back over bad stretches?) they were the right tool.


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## Steve (Nov 23, 2017)

gpseymour said:


> Something about those cars and rallies. The power math doesn't make sense, but the did really well. Somehow (weight? suspension? hard to roll? easy to pick up and port on your back over bad stretches?) they were the right tool.


The secret was that. They never had to slow down.   Low center of gravity and wheels at the extreme corners of the frame.


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## JR 137 (Nov 23, 2017)

Depending on who’s teaching it and how old-school they are, Uechi Ryu is a very hard style.  I’ve heard it’s the toughest physical conditioning (body hardening, not cardio conditioning) karate style there is.  From what I’ve seen first hand at a particular dojo, and what I’ve seen in videos, it seems pretty accurate.


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## Danny T (Nov 24, 2017)

Charlemagne said:


> I'm talking about him.  Someone who lists their Reiki certification, etc. is probably the kind of guy who would list his MA certs as well.  That's what I am getting at.


Ahh, I apologize, I miss read.


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## Charlemagne (Nov 24, 2017)

Danny T said:


> Ahh, I apologize, I miss read.



No worries.


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## lklawson (Nov 24, 2017)

BmillerWarrior said:


> I want to know what are the most effective styles of Karate? I know all styles of Karate are effective in there own respective way but in your opinions what are the most effective styles? What style is most devastating and or what are the devastating styles of Karate?


All of them.  They're all awesome.
None of them.  They all suck.

You're welcome.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## KenpoMaster805 (Nov 24, 2017)

There are many Martial Arts and they are very effective in their own way and depending on how u used it specially in the street when you get confronted if you want traditional go to ShotoKAN GOJU RYU KYUKUSHIN if you dont want traditional go take Kenpo karate Kenpo karate is an awesome Martial Arts


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## punisher73 (Nov 30, 2017)

Bill Mattocks said:


> With all due respect, the question cannot be answered.  You want to know what style of karate is the 'most devastating' and the only answer possible is 'it depends'.
> 
> You are not going to get an answer from anyone that even comes close to answering what you're asking.  At most, you will get a rote list of people's favorites, which proves nothing.



Agreed.  You may find an art/school/instructor that best fits YOUR needs to get you where you want to be on your own personal journey and that may differ from the next person.  As my instructor says, ALL arts taught and shared in the right spirit will get you to the same mountain top.


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## hoshin1600 (Dec 1, 2017)

i didnt see one vote for Amerido- Te.   i think thats the best.   maybe i missed it but i didnt see a vote for it.....the fad must be losing interest.  the joke must be getting old.


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## JR 137 (Dec 1, 2017)

hoshin1600 said:


> i didnt see one vote for Amerido- Te.   i think thats the best.   maybe i missed it but i didnt see a vote for it.....the fad must be losing interest.  the joke must be getting old.


2 reasons why:
Ameri-do-te isn’t karate
Ameri-do-te is a given, and we didn’t want to be masters of the obvious


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## Headhunter (Dec 4, 2017)




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