# Training advantages for gi/nogi



## Eternal Beginner (Jul 29, 2005)

I'm sorry if this thread has been covered before but I was wondering what all of you _who have actually trained with both_ find that you like about training with or without a gi in grappling.  Sorry about the condition, but I have encountered too many people who have never done any real training with the gi, or without the gi, who are quick to bash the other side without experiencing it.

 I don't mean this to be a no gi vs gi thread, what I am hoping for is to point out there are great things about training with both and if you are open minded how both can help you out.

 So, how about it?


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## Kembudo-Kai Kempoka (Jul 29, 2005)

I switch back and forth between both. Gripping a gi develops your hands and fingers to grasp things firmly in a grapple; no sleeve on the upper arm? Try the flesh over the triceps.

Gi training gets bad-mouthed by the "realist" community under the guise of "bad-guys don't wear kimono's in the street". True, but they do wear other clothes, which can also be used offensively. I've collar choked guys as a bouncer, and put a would-be mugger in a sleeve wheel choke with my London Fog in the Bruxelles metro.

I also train without a gi, to get used to navigating an opponents body without as many of the usual handles. I think it teaches a little more thinking...being solely dependent on either is, IMO, a bad idea. Flexibility in options. I wouldn't have known how to improvise the chokes without gi training.

Regards,

Dave


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## arnisador (Jul 29, 2005)

There has been much discussion of it here before. One school of thought is, train as you'd fight; the other is, if you can escape from someone holding your gi, you are that much better and can surely escape when you're not wearing it! Mt BJJ class instructor some of each, but considers the gi a useful learning tool.


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## redfang (Jul 30, 2005)

I grappled for years without a gi and have just recently started training somewhere with the gi.  For me it presents the problem that I still have my mind in no gi mode, while in the meantime I keep getting choked out with the darned thing.  I have to realize that positions that would be pretty safe from certain attacks without the gi are now vulnerable to attacks that I haven't considered due to lack of familiarity.  Back to square one.


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## searcher (Jul 30, 2005)

I have trained in both, but I tend to lean toward the use of a gi.   I know that it gives my opponent a place to grip, but it also gives me something to hang on to.   I have weighed both and I like the gi more.    The advantage of training without is that it helps for the street, since you can't grab a gi and throw it on in the middle of a fight.


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## NotQuiteDead (Jul 31, 2005)

> the other is, if you can escape from someone holding your gi, you are that much better and can surely escape when you're not wearing it!


 ...and then there are people like me who feel that if you can control someone in the clinch or on the ground when they're slippery and you can't grab their clothes then you can hold them down when their wearing street clothes because they can't slip out as easy.


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## cashwo (Aug 3, 2005)

redfang said:
			
		

> I grappled for years without a gi and have just recently started training somewhere with the gi. For me it presents the problem that I still have my mind in no gi mode, while in the meantime I keep getting choked out with the darned thing. I have to realize that positions that would be pretty safe from certain attacks without the gi are now vulnerable to attacks that I haven't considered due to lack of familiarity. Back to square one.


This is how I felt but I'm training about 50/50 now.  Training both definitely helps you grow.  Training with the gi has helped slow my game down and try to be more controlled.


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## Kenpojujitsu3 (Aug 6, 2005)

Gi 
*Training advantages* -- More grips, more moves/options, harder to escape positions so you have to be more technical, slower pace for beginners due to more grips making movement more difficult.  Gripping cloth develops more grip strength than without the cloth

*Training disadvantages -- *Sometimes builds reliance on grips that may/may not be available for real, Sometimes builds reliance on moves/options that may/may not be available, Sometimes builds dependence on slower pace.  Easier to stall.

No-GI
*Training Advantages -- *Less grips teaches more about the control points of the ACTUAL BODY, less available moves leads to being more technical with the moves that are available in order to pull them off successfully on a resisting opponent who knows the moves (opponent has less worry about in other words), Body positioning is more important without having a bunch of cloth to grab in case of emergency(in case you screw up in other words), Faster pace demands a little more Cardio, More No-Gi moves can be used with a Gi than vice versa

*Training Disadvantages  --* Less gripping of cloth does not promote grip strength as much, far easier to escape so technique in 'escape forms' can be sacrificed, lesser moveset may lend to lack of knowledge of other moves, people who train only in No-Gi get Gi choked routinely when the Gi is added due to unfamiliarity/complacency, faster pace may not be suited to beginners as it gives them less time to think in the early stages and grappling is a chess match hense thinking should come into play almost as much as trained/instinctual responses (especially true in the early stages of learning)


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## bunyip (Aug 7, 2005)

No-gi gives you sloppy defense.  Gi gives you sloppy offense.  Train both.


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## Kenpojujitsu3 (Aug 9, 2005)

bunyip said:
			
		

> No-gi gives you sloppy defense. Gi gives you sloppy offense. Train both.


Well..that was a succinct (sp?) way of putting it.  But for the most part agreed


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## arnisador (Aug 9, 2005)

Succinct, but I liked it. I intend to use it!


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## cashwo (Aug 9, 2005)

bunyip said:
			
		

> No-gi gives you sloppy defense. Gi gives you sloppy offense. Train both.


Well said!!!


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## Shogun (Aug 9, 2005)

Well, as Kembudo-Kai Kempoka said, training in both is the only way to go IMO. I think 55% Gi and 45% No gi is good. 
If you look at some of the best teams in Grappling (Lloyd Irvin's team,Tiger schulmanns, Pedro Sauer, Renzo Gracie, etc) they train this way. The gi gives you a strong base, and allows less movement. You have to be very technical as you cant just use brute force to slip out of a move due to less sweat.
Now, I am not bragging, but I train almost exclusively (85% or so) with a gi, and no one can believe it when I do no-gi. 
IMO, Gi is not just better, its necessary.

that being said, train 100% Gi, you better not go do a no gi tourney because you'll get stomped.


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## Neon Knight (Aug 19, 2005)

I think that you need both, although personally I spend 95% of my time doing no-gi.  That's mainly because it's just so HOT!  

Also, when I say no-gi, that is NOT simply being shirtless or using a rash guard and wearing shorts.  It means wearing what EVER the heck I end up wearing (sometimes shorts and a t-shirt, sometimes it's a pair of jeans.  Sometimes sweat pants and a t-shirt, etc).  Many people assume that when you say no-gi, you're only wearing speedos for some reason.

People DO wear clothes on the street.  There is reason enough to have some understanding of that aspect.  I think it's also important to understand when you are potentially in trouble with certain things (collar chokes, etc).  

One bad thing that I see with people who only do gi is, they become so cloth dependent.  They often don't develop an understanding of how to control the human BODY.  I find that because of my no-gi game that whenever I AM wearing the gi, I almost always play it as if I'm doing no-gi.  To me that's a good thing.


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