# glucosamine plus chondroitin sulfate -- failed



## INDYFIGHTER (Feb 24, 2006)

http://www.medpagetoday.com/Rheumatology/Arthritis/tb/2728?pfc=101&spc=230

New test results say these supplements have little if any effect.


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## terryl965 (Feb 24, 2006)

Yea so what is next. any ideals.
Terry


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## Jade Tigress (Feb 24, 2006)

I didn't read the article but can say from first hand experience that a quality product works for some. It's worked for me and I've seen horses who have joint issues from jumping continue painlessly after being fed glucosamine/chondroitin supplements. I guess you could say it's a placebo effect on a person..but not on an animal. The key is using a quality supplement and giving it time to work..a minimum of 30 days. And again, not everything works for everyone.


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## Shirt Ripper (Feb 24, 2006)

One study says nothing (relatively).  Time tested results and hundreds (est.) of other studies should be considered equally.  I'm going with those.


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## TigerWoman (Feb 24, 2006)

I don't think this was a good test.  I've been taking glucosamine sulfate for seven years.  I tried going off it for a  couple of months and noticed my knees/joints were feeling different, more pain so I went back on and stayed.  Better with than without.  No side effects. I'm happy.  Well, I still have damage from worn down cartilage, but two meniscus tears healed completely when the doc said they wouldn't.  I recommend a good quality glucosamine though as I have tried others and they are not equal. TW


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## Marginal (Feb 24, 2006)

INDYFIGHTER said:
			
		

> http://www.medpagetoday.com/Rheumatology/Arthritis/tb/2728?pfc=101&spc=230
> 
> New test results say these supplements have little if any effect.


 
Just to point out what it actually said, little benefit was observed in cases involving moderate pain. At higher levels of pain, a benefit was observed. 

One other thing that makes me question the "it's useless" conclusion, I had a dog that suffered from arthritis. We had been giving her asprin as per the vet's instructions, but she started suffering from nose bleeds. I switched her over to glucosamine, and the pain was controlled. Without it, she couldn't walk. Wasn't aware that placebos worked on dogs...


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## Shirt Ripper (Feb 24, 2006)

Excellent point by all.  Anecdotal evidence _has_ it's place...you know?

I come from a powerlifting, strongman, etc type background...let me tell you...a lot of faith in these products there.


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## Carol (Feb 24, 2006)

Study?  What study?  I wasn't involved in any study. 

I'm being flippant for a reason.  

This reminds me of when I reported a bad side effect from an rx med to my doctor.  

Her reaction?  "It shouldn't do that"

Studies can be interesting tools, but...I'm selfish!  When it comes to supplements...it's all about me. 

Ultimately what matters most to me is how *my* body reacts to what I put in it.  Not how someone else's body reacts.


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## Kacey (Feb 24, 2006)

Also, I noticed that the study was looking at pain - not at range of motion, which is what many people take glucosamine and chondroitin for, so while they failed as pain preventers, that doesn't say anything about preventing and/or repairing damage.  I don't see this study as a reason to change anything if it's working for you - nothing I saw showed that they caused damage - only that they are not effective as pain relievers.  I take glucosamine/chondroitin/MSM due to mild arthritis diagnosed after a knee sprain - and I will continue to take it as a preventative, not as a pain reliever, which is not a purpose I've ever used it for.


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## shesulsa (Feb 24, 2006)

Ya. Aspirin isn't supposed to work either. Failed studies, even, except the ones that help prevent heart attack.  Pain relief and heart attack / stroke prevention aren't even what aspirin is made for. They don't know why it works.  They don't even know THAT it works for pain, except for what people say.

Studies don't always mean much - observing results tends to tell us more, I think.


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## someguy (Feb 24, 2006)

My old man uses Glucosamine Chondroitin.  It seems to work for him.  I'll guess it works on some level and thats good enough for me.


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## Jonathan Randall (Feb 24, 2006)

Glucosamine has been a life saver for many! There have been _other _studies that have shown otherwise, IIRC. Also, this study is in regard to arthritis. Many people that I know, including family members, have found that it was very effective against _backpain_. Just because in one narrow condition an improvement in ONE study finds no improvement, does not necessarily mean that the supplement does not help in other areas or that a _different _study might contradict the first. Goodness knows that has happened before...


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## samurai69 (Feb 25, 2006)

I didnt read that particular article, but others i have read prove that it does and has worked on many people....I know it takes a long time to start working (3 months plus), so how long was that test over (was there a test??)


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## TigerWoman (Feb 25, 2006)

shesulsa said:
			
		

> Ya. Aspirin isn't supposed to work either. Failed studies, even, except the ones that help prevent heart attack.  Pain relief and heart attack / stroke prevention aren't even what aspirin is made for. They don't know why it works.  They don't even know THAT it works for pain, except for what people say.
> 
> Studies don't always mean much - observing results tends to tell us more, I think.



Aspirin works on inflammation and swelling from breakoff off of cartilage causing irritation which then causes pain.  Willow bark, a precursor to aspirin was used literally ages ago.  But it's hard on the stomach so ibuprofen is for me.

Ibuprofen is supposed to interfere with the absorption of glucosamine so you can't take it at the same time.  But to prevent the inflammation while exercising I take ibuprofen before and the swelling and pain doesn't happen afterwards.  If I take the glucosamine a few hours afterwards, it works then as the ibuprofen leaves my system.  Seems to be working that way. And my knees feel great after a few days rest with only glucosamine supplements.  I definitely think it does help with pain as I have arthritis in my knees as well as little cartilage.  If I were only doing walking with good shoes, I wouldn't need more than glucosamine.  TW


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## Brother John (Feb 25, 2006)

works well for me!

Your Brother
John


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## Kembudo-Kai Kempoka (Feb 25, 2006)

This study does not state that it does not work. Read it. It helped knee pain, but not muscle stiffness...the two effects being measured. 

The doses were 1500 mg.   There are recent studies identifying 1600 mg/day as the MED (minimum effective dose). They used hydrochloride; previous studies have already identified the sulfate forms as "the good stuff", because of their ability to donate a sulfur group to glucosaminoglycan (GAG) formation. These folks did not use a review of the literature to inform their treatment regimens; it reflects the importance of prpoerly doing your homework prior to designing a study, more than it reflects the efficacy of G/C supplementation for the treatment of knee ROM's, stiffness or pain.

Blanket interpretation of studies so performed unfortunately lead to gross conclusions that misinform the public, and too often, docs as well.

Regards,

D.


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## bluemtn (Feb 25, 2006)

Glucosamine has worked real well for me.  I also used it in conjunction with tiger balm when I hurt my knee, and got a lot more movement out of them combined.  Those supplements don't typically have pain relievers in them, just relieves joints rubbing, and other tissue damage in the joint.


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## Cryozombie (Feb 25, 2006)

My knees are getting horrible.  One of out Blackbelts is a Chiropractor and he told me to start taking this.  He said it works wonders.​


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## Shirt Ripper (Feb 26, 2006)

Technopunk said:
			
		

> My knees are getting horrible. One of out Blackbelts is a Chiropractor and he told me to start taking this. He said it works wonders.
> ​


He's right.  Spare no expense and use it diligently for a few months.


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## INDYFIGHTER (Mar 6, 2006)

For the record since I started this thread I have to say I agree with everyone here.  My knees don't pop and crack and even my knuckles seem to hurt less when I was taking it consistantly.  I just thought I'd throw it out there.  Thanks for your input!


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## Shirt Ripper (Mar 6, 2006)

INDYFIGHTER said:
			
		

> For the record since I started this thread I have to say I agree with everyone here. My knees don't pop and crack and even my knuckles seem to hurt less when I was taking it consistantly. I just thought I'd throw it out there. Thanks for your input!


 
Fair enough.  Discussion points are good.  You are the all singing, all dancing crap of the world.


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## INDYFIGHTER (Mar 6, 2006)

I sure am!!:uhyeah:


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## James Clifton (May 21, 2006)

Tigerwoman,
                Are you taking glu & cond...or just glu?? What brand??I take a combo of both & it seems to work & I've had two knee operations.Thanks for your help!
Jim


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## Jade Tigress (May 22, 2006)

Not TigerWoman but I have been taking a double strength glucomsamine/chondroitin supplement for a couple years that really makes a  difference for me. I also recently added MSM. I purchase NSI brand from vitacost.com. 
NSI brand supplements were recommended to me by a friend, who is a biochemist for a large nutritional corporation, as being one of the top brands on the market. Hope this helps. :asian:


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## Explorer (Jun 10, 2006)

Glucosemine, Chondroiten AND MSM.  Any two of the three won't help me much ... but all three together and I'm feeling like a kid of 45 again!  Maybe 43, even.

I find the best results from a suspension (liquid) made by a company here in Minnesota.  I didn't have to wait 30 days for results ... felt 'em within a week or so.


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