# "Make violence a choice and no-" you never have a choice..



## MoldyCookie (Jul 16, 2022)

What am I missing about when people talk about violence suddenly becoming a "choice" when you know how to fight?

This is where I have to agree with people like Ryan Hoover. If someone is gonna try to inflict violence upon you, they're just going to do it.

Some fat, greasy, peeked-in-highschool schmuck with a woman nearby (could be his, maybe it's not, maybe it's his cousin.. probably his cousin) starts with you looking for points, what are you gonna do?

_"I don't accept your terms and conditions."_

No man, something's coming.

We can argue up and down about the ramifications of swinging first/not swinging first, it doesn't matter if one of us thinks we can just say "no" and then we'll be safe. 😂


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## mograph (Jul 16, 2022)

MoldyCookie said:


> Some fat, greasy, peeked-in-highschool schmuck with a woman nearby (could be his, maybe it's not, maybe it's his cousin.. probably his cousin) starts with you looking for points, what are you gonna do?



Being an old, and not a drinker, I have to ask: how do these situations come about?


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## hoshin1600 (Jul 16, 2022)

I'm not sure I understand the premise of your post about violence being a choice. I have never heard that said the way you describe it 
What I have heard and believe is that you should have it in you to be able to inflict violence on others. You want to aim at being mentally and physically capable of violence. However if you choose to walk away rather than crush someone, then that is a true choice. As opposed to a being a week person who is incapable of anything other than submission. That person doesn't have a choice and it is not a virtue if you do not have a choice.


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## MoldyCookie (Jul 16, 2022)

mograph said:


> Being an old, and not a drinker, I have to ask: how do these situations come about?



Go out in public at all.. and have any kind of confidence that these snots can see as a threat.

Don't have to be in a bar for this stuff. Don't know about age though.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Jul 16, 2022)

MoldyCookie said:


> Go out in public at all.. and have any kind of confidence that these snots can see as a threat.
> 
> Don't have to be in a bar for this stuff. Don't know about age though.


Might not be confidence that you're showing. I've got plenty of confidence, haven't been in a situation where someone attacked me since I was 21 (outside of work, in a job where it's expected). Same with my friends, regardless of how in/out-of-shape they are. 

On the rare occasion someone has had a desire to fight me, it's pretty easy to cool them down and end the situation without violence. But to go back to your original question, it'd be a lot easier to calm someone down if you're secure enough you could handle yourself, vs. if you're scared at the time. So that's part of where the 'choice' comes in.


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## MoldyCookie (Jul 17, 2022)

Monkey Turned Wolf said:


> Might not be confidence that you're showing. I've got plenty of confidence, haven't been in a situation where someone attacked me since I was 21 (outside of work, in a job where it's expected). Same with my friends, regardless of how in/out-of-shape they are.
> 
> On the rare occasion someone has had a desire to fight me, it's pretty easy to cool them down and end the situation without violence. But to go back to your original question, it'd be a lot easier to calm someone down if you're secure enough you could handle yourself, vs. if you're scared at the time. So that's part of where the 'choice' comes in.



Well then clearly you don't use that confidence for anything.. otherwise many many more people would want to fight you lol.

The calming them down bit makes sense though.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Jul 17, 2022)

MoldyCookie said:


> Well then clearly you don't use that confidence for anything.. otherwise many many more people would want to fight you lol.
> 
> The calming them down bit makes sense though.


What exactly would I use my confidence for that would make people want to fight me?


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## MoldyCookie (Jul 17, 2022)

Monkey Turned Wolf said:


> What exactly would I use my confidence for that would make people want to fight me?



Doing what you want.. putting yourself first.. saying what needs to be said.

When I was a kid, it was called "being disrespectful."

Now I believe it's called "being a douche."

Idk. Disrespect, douchiness, living my life. Same thing.


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## hoshin1600 (Jul 17, 2022)

MoldyCookie said:


> Doing what you want.. putting yourself first.. saying what needs to be said.


That's not confidence that's narcissism.
So yeah being narcissistic and an *** gets you punched in the mouth.


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## Gerry Seymour (Jul 17, 2022)

MoldyCookie said:


> Doing what you want.. putting yourself first.. saying what needs to be said.
> 
> When I was a kid, it was called "being disrespectful."
> 
> ...


Disrespect isn't a sign of confidence. It's a show of bravado, usually. If by "living my life", you mean ignoring others' boundaries and social norms, yeah, that tends to cause problems.


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## MoldyCookie (Jul 17, 2022)

Gerry Seymour said:


> Disrespect isn't a sign of confidence. It's a show of bravado, usually. If by "living my life", you mean ignoring others' boundaries and social norms, yeah, that tends to cause problems.



When I say disrespect I mean what people usually call disrespect.. not the same thing.

For example, I almost got into it once with a guy at a Chinese restaurant because he was standing like 10 feet away from the next person up in line for the front desk and I "cut in front of him."

This was at the height of the pandemic so I guess he was trying to social distance or something stupid like that. I knew immediately that that's what he was doing but it only made me respect him even less.

What I did wasn't disrespect. If you're gonna get in a line then actually get in the line.


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## Gerry Seymour (Jul 17, 2022)

MoldyCookie said:


> When I say disrespect I mean what people usually call disrespect.. not the same thing.
> 
> For example, I almost got into it once with a guy at a Chinese restaurant because he was standing like 10 feet away from the next person up in line for the front desk and I "cut in front of him."
> 
> ...


So, yeah. You mean thinking taking reasonable, science-backed precautions is stupid. And yes, that’s douchey.


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## MoldyCookie (Jul 17, 2022)

Gerry Seymour said:


> So, yeah. You mean thinking taking reasonable, science-backed precautions is stupid. And yes, that’s douchey.


What's douchey? Taking a space that someone left for me and then snapping back when they're mad about the consequences of their crappy decision making?


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## drop bear (Jul 17, 2022)

MoldyCookie said:


> What's douchey? Taking a space that someone left for me and then snapping back when they're mad about the consequences of their crappy decision making?


Yes all of that is douchy

You are not the line space police.


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## MoldyCookie (Jul 17, 2022)

drop bear said:


> Yes all of that is douchy
> 
> You are not the line space police.



Then hitting back during an attempted assault is also douchy.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Jul 17, 2022)

MoldyCookie said:


> What's douchey? Taking a space that someone left for me and then snapping back when they're mad about the consequences of their crappy decision making?


The appropriate response would be "oh, my bad. Didn't realize you were in line" then go behind him. Not snapping back because he let you know he was in line when you went in front of him. And conveniently for your original question, that response is a choice you can make that doesn't result in violence.


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## MoldyCookie (Jul 17, 2022)

Monkey Turned Wolf said:


> The appropriate response would be "oh, my bad. Didn't realize you were in line" then go behind him. Not snapping back because he let you know he was in line when you went in front of him. And conveniently for your original question, that response is a choice you can make that doesn't result in violence.



Yeah but then I'm miserable because my tail is between my legs and I'm tolerating something that doesn't deserve my tolerance.


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## mograph (Jul 17, 2022)

I think I have my answer, thanks.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Jul 17, 2022)

MoldyCookie said:


> Yeah but then I'm miserable because my tail is between my legs and I'm tolerating something that doesn't deserve my tolerance.


You're tolerating that the person who was in front of you in line stayed in front of you? I'm really not following what your argument is here, but i totally get now how you keep ending up in violent situations.


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## MoldyCookie (Jul 17, 2022)

Monkey Turned Wolf said:


> You're tolerating that the person who was in front of you in line stayed in front of you? I'm really not following what your argument is here, but i totally get now how you keep ending up in violent situations.



You can't intentionally leave a massive gap and expect people to not take it.


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## Steve (Jul 17, 2022)

In threads like this, I just think about Poe’s law and presume it’s intentional satire.


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## MoldyCookie (Jul 17, 2022)

I bet this is the same group of people who would hate Icy Mike because he's a little blunt, but loves Dan the Wolfman for the same reason.

Hilarious!!


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## drop bear (Jul 17, 2022)

MoldyCookie said:


> I bet this is the same group of people who would hate Icy Mike because he's a little blunt, but loves Dan the Wolfman for the same reason.
> 
> Hilarious!!



I bet neither of those guys are line cutters.


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## MoldyCookie (Jul 17, 2022)

drop bear said:


> I bet neither of those guys are line cutters.



But their blunt. You WILL get attacked for being a little blunt.

 And no you don't have to be in a "stupid place" for it to happen (as if the phrase "stupid place" isn't subjective to the point where it has no meaning whatsoever), before I hear that jargon for the billionth time.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Jul 17, 2022)

Steve said:


> In threads like this, I just think about Poe’s law and presume it’s intentional satire.


I always start off with benefit of the doubt, until I can't justify it anymore. Just on the off-chance they're actually being serious, and also actually willing to listen.


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## MoldyCookie (Jul 17, 2022)

Steve said:


> In threads like this, I just think about Poe’s law and presume it’s intentional satire.



If it keeps you from banning me for "trolling" (as if that makes any sense), whatever.

I win either way. 🤷🏻‍♂️


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## Steve (Jul 17, 2022)

MoldyCookie said:


> If it keeps you from banning me for "trolling" (as if that makes any sense), whatever.
> 
> I win either way. 🤷🏻‍♂️


I’m not banning you from anything. I’m just not taking you seriously.   I think you’re hilarious.  I win either way.


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## MoldyCookie (Jul 17, 2022)

Steve said:


> I’m not banning you from anything. I’m just not taking you seriously.   I think you’re hilarious.  I win either way.



You don't win anything, you're a mod/admin/whatever. Anytime you "win" you're just hiding behind your authority like a little weasel.


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## Gerry Seymour (Jul 17, 2022)

MoldyCookie said:


> Then hitting back during an attempted assault is also douchy.


You seem to struggle with the concept of equivalency.


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## Gerry Seymour (Jul 17, 2022)

MoldyCookie said:


> Yeah but then I'm miserable because my tail is between my legs and I'm tolerating something that doesn't deserve my tolerance.


That sounds like “alpha” indoctrination.


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## Gerry Seymour (Jul 17, 2022)

MoldyCookie said:


> You don't win anything, you're a mod/admin/whatever. Anytime you "win" you're just hiding behind your authority like a little weasel.


Um, Steve is neither of those things. But you seem to have issues s with being called out for bad behavior.


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## Steve (Jul 17, 2022)

MoldyCookie said:


> You don't win anything, you're a mod/admin/whatever. Anytime you "win" you're just hiding behind your authority like a little weasel.


Oh, now THAT is funny.


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## Steve (Jul 17, 2022)

Gerry Seymour said:


> Um, Steve is neither of those things. But you seem to have issues s with being called out for bad behavior.


I’m a whatever.


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## Rich Parsons (Jul 17, 2022)

MoldyCookie said:


> When I say disrespect I mean what people usually call disrespect.. not the same thing.
> 
> For example, I almost got into it once with a guy at a Chinese restaurant because he was standing like 10 feet away from the next person up in line for the front desk and I "cut in front of him."
> 
> ...


You are acting asocial. 
Here and in the example. 
You keep changing what words mean to you and others. 
So I guess it all comes down to what "is" means.  

You are being disrespectful to those who have died from COVID. 
You are being disrespectful then and now with your incoherent posts and non sequiturs. 

Are you going to track me down and try to flip the switch on me? I hope not. That would be a very bad social behavior. 

It is customary even in a place when you walk in to look at each of the others and ask have you been waited upon. 
You see you did not care about anything but yourself. 
The issue is others, the issue is within. 

If you are serious, take a deep breath, and read what I and others have posted to you and try to learn from it. 
If you already have the answers, then I wonder why you are here except to maybe get some enjoyment out of weird posts? 

Have a Nice Day


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## Rich Parsons (Jul 17, 2022)

MoldyCookie said:


> If it keeps you from banning me for "trolling" (as if that makes any sense), whatever.
> 
> I win either way. 🤷🏻‍♂️



Did you just admit to Trolling?
Nice 
How does won win either way? 
1) You stay and cause issues - Troll 
2) You get banned and you get confirmation that the world is after you and it is everyone else and not you? 

There are other options. 
3) Become a productive member
4) Leave and not come back 
5) Leave and learn a little and then come back and try again?


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## MoldyCookie (Jul 17, 2022)

Rich Parsons said:


> Did you just admit to Trolling?
> Nice
> How does won win either way?
> 1) You stay and cause issues - Troll
> ...



Show me where I admitted to anything.

1) I stay and continue telling people what they need to hear and not what they want to hear- Win.

2) I get banned and get confirmation that you'll call certain things "trolling" just because you don't like them- Win.

That's how.

I am being productive. It's everyone else who is treating social decency like it's this objective.. "thing" that means the same thing in every context.. and treating "bad places" like it means anything.

All it takes for a place to become a "bad place" is a single bad egg walking in. There's not a rule for this.


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## Gerry Seymour (Jul 18, 2022)

MoldyCookie said:


> Show me where I admitted to anything.
> 
> 1) I stay and continue telling people what they need to hear and not what they want to hear- Win.
> 
> ...


Any time you think “everyone else” is the problem, there’s a very high likelihood you are wrong.


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## Buka (Jul 18, 2022)

Steve said:


> I’m a whatever.


I'm a whatever, too. But my biggest problem is trying to be spiritually evolved while wanting to beat the piss out of lil' trolly asshats. 

Is that a bad thing?


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## mograph (Jul 18, 2022)

Buka said:


> I'm a whatever, too. But my biggest problem is trying to be spiritually evolved while wanting to beat the piss out of lil' trolly asshats.
> 
> Is that a bad thing?


Not at all. Just make violence a choice!


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## Rich Parsons (Jul 18, 2022)

MoldyCookie said:


> Show me where I admitted to anything.
> 
> 1) I stay and continue telling people what they need to hear and not what they want to hear- Win.
> 
> ...




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## isshinryuronin (Jul 18, 2022)

May I suggest that this thread be closed down.  I hate to see my _Martialtalk_ colleagues lower themselves responding to this ridiculous guy.


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## Hyoho (Jul 19, 2022)

MoldyCookie said:


> Show me where I admitted to anything.
> 
> 1) I stay and continue telling people what they need to hear and not what they want to hear- Win.
> 
> ...


I read your first post and was about to suggest an approach. Then again reading on you seem to be rather confrontational with everybody, even here on the group. I have people try push in front of me in queues and deal with it but it never needs to end up violently.


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## auntlisa1103 (Jul 19, 2022)

MoldyCookie said:


> When I say disrespect I mean what people usually call disrespect.. not the same thing.
> 
> For example, I almost got into it once with a guy at a Chinese restaurant because he was standing like 10 feet away from the next person up in line for the front desk and I "cut in front of him."
> 
> ...


Yeah you were the problem here. 

If you are going to choose to be the problem, you should probably be prepared for people to get ticked off. 

Seems to me you are choosing violence by starting crap and escalating it, and then blaming it on the other party. So you are putting others in a position to choose to defend themselves or not, and claiming they are stupid for not wanting to choose violence. 

The first two tenets of TKD are courtesy and integrity. Try having some sometime.


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## Xue Sheng (Jul 19, 2022)

MoldyCookie said:


> Go out in public at all.. and have any kind of confidence that these snots can see as a threat.
> 
> Don't have to be in a bar for this stuff. Don't know about age though.


If you have confidence in you ability, and yourself, what does it prove by fighting with an idiot...I mean other than showing you have no control of your emotions, especially anger....basically, who are you trying to impress?


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## Wing Woo Gar (Jul 19, 2022)

MoldyCookie said:


> What's douchey? Taking a space that someone left for me and then snapping back when they're mad about the consequences of their crappy decision making?


Who is making crappy decisions? Try being tolerant, people have a bad day sometimes. It’s not your tail between your legs you should concern yourself with, it’s your brain between your ears. The issue here is your perspective.


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## Wing Woo Gar (Jul 19, 2022)

MoldyCookie said:


> Yeah but then I'm miserable because my tail is between my legs and I'm tolerating something that doesn't deserve my tolerance.


perspective.


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## jstacy1228 (Jul 19, 2022)

I sometimes wonder why random threads pop up on my email, but I am so glad this one did. It was a great read, and I felt like logging in to comment. Not necessarily on the ridiculousness of the way this whole premise played out for OP, but on the nature of the "choice" itself, and specifically, how it relates to confidence. 

As a disabled cane-user with a mobility impairment, my number one tactic of running is all but impossible. Which means I may, at some point, have to make the "choice" of either violence or getting trounced (very likely the latter). No choice at all really, when you can't leave an attacker's space easily. 

That said, as I think someone else pointed out, the choice the attacker makes in this situation has nothing to do with confidence, and everything to do with insecurity. Even if the likely result happened, me getting my butt kicked, I'd still be able to go out with tons of confidence, because a narcissist's ability to beat up a weaker person who had no choice is indicative of nothing so much as their own insecurities within themselves. 

This idea that every single time you don't do exactly what you want to do out in public means that you're fuming inside because your "tail is between your legs" or your confidence is threatened is absolutely wild to me.


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## Wing Woo Gar (Jul 19, 2022)

MoldyCookie said:


> But their blunt. You WILL get attacked for being a little blunt.
> 
> And no you don't have to be in a "stupid place" for it to happen (as if the phrase "stupid place" isn't subjective to the point where it has no meaning whatsoever), before I hear that jargon for the billionth time.


Blunt or rude? I wouldn’t attack someone for being either. I wouldn’t attack you for cutting line, I might be blunt about telling you that cutting line is rude.


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## Wing Woo Gar (Jul 19, 2022)

MoldyCookie said:


> You don't win anything, you're a mod/admin/whatever. Anytime you "win" you're just hiding behind your authority like a little weasel.


Really? Wow. I am genuinely surprised here. First question I have is how old are you? Do you train in MA?


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## Wing Woo Gar (Jul 19, 2022)

mograph said:


> Not at all. Just make violence a choice!


🤣😍


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## auntlisa1103 (Jul 19, 2022)

Just gonna leave this here without further comment, except to say that self-control is another tenet of TKD. So three of the five are, in one way or another, about how you treat others, rather than how you serve yourself.


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## Steve (Jul 19, 2022)

From a recent NYT opinion piece: “if you meet a jerk once a month, you’ve met a jerk.  If you meet jerks every day, you’re a jerk.”

I think the same thing goes for confrontation/conflict in general.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Jul 19, 2022)

Steve said:


> From a recent NYT opinion piece: “if you meet a jerk once a month, you’ve met a jerk.  If you meet jerks every day, you’re a jerk.”
> 
> I think the same thing goes for confrontation/conflict in general.


The one exception to this is drivers. If you see a bad driver every day, it just means you've got a bad commute.


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## MoldyCookie (Jul 19, 2022)

Monkey Turned Wolf said:


> The one exception to this is drivers. If you see a bad driver every day, it just means you've got a bad commute.



You just proved that you all cherry pick when phrases like that apply lol.


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## mograph (Jul 19, 2022)

MoldyCookie said:


> You just proved that you all cherry pick when phrases like that apply lol.


So we're all the problem?

I see.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Jul 19, 2022)

MoldyCookie said:


> You just proved that you all cherry pick when phrases like that apply lol.


Not sure if you missed it, but I was making a joke.


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## OLD DOG NEW TRICKS (Jul 19, 2022)

MoldyCookie said:


> What am I missing about when people talk about violence suddenly becoming a "choice" when you know how to fight?
> 
> This is where I have to agree with people like Ryan Hoover. If someone is gonna try to inflict violence upon you, they're just going to do it.
> 
> ...


It's his toothless hillbilly kissing cousin. lol. If we beat down all the idiots in the world we would be fighting 24 / 7. As martial artists we have to stay above these fools (Toothless idiots) because we are held to a much higher standard. But I do understand your thoughts. Take care.


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## Buka (Jul 19, 2022)

Steve said:


> From a recent NYT opinion piece: “if you meet a jerk once a month, you’ve met a jerk.  If you meet jerks every day, you’re a jerk.”
> 
> I think the same thing goes for confrontation/conflict in general.


Gee, I hope there's caveats to that. I work at an airport. If there isn't at least one jerk per hour we usually send out search parties to help.


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## Holmejr (Jul 19, 2022)

Oingo Boingo - Home Again
“Where is he going - why does he walk that way 
Sticking his chest out - what is he trying to say 
He's got charisma - but when he's all alone 
He curls up in a ball - and wishes that he was 
Home Again...Home Again...Home Again”

Lol


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## Steve (Jul 19, 2022)

Buka said:


> Gee, I hope there's caveats to that. I work at an airport. If there isn't at least one jerk per hour we usually send out search parties to help.


I think you’re out of luck.  Cops are professional jerks.  😉


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## drop bear (Jul 19, 2022)

I am a jerk. But I am not a cut in line jerk


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## auntlisa1103 (Jul 19, 2022)

I encounter jerks every day, but not because I’m a jerk. Because I work in the customer service industry.


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## Xue Sheng (Jul 20, 2022)

Buka said:


> Gee, I hope there's caveats to that. I work at an airport. If there isn't at least one jerk per hour we usually send out search parties to help.


 When I work hospital Security, with rather active mental health and detox units, depending on the day…. it could 2 or 3 in an hour. I feel your pain


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## O'Malley (Jul 20, 2022)

I once met a clown with a very bad attitude. He was what you'd call a circus jerk.


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## TularosaKungFu (Jul 20, 2022)

Haha "virtue signaling" in these times seems to ignore the present realities of people enjoying their self esteem and people taking revenge for their lack of it. The social climate right now, if history serves, is so many playing the dead baby misery bucket, that it drives the rest of people to enjoy what they do even more. A wall of pleasant happy against their miserable ugly efforts.
Wellbeing and happiness now are called "disrespect"? 
Nobody is going to walk around pretending to be lame or miserable or anything they dont want to. David Carradine said 50 years ago that "if everybody had martial arts, tyrants couldn't oppress people into anything"








						David Carradine Prevents Communism circa '72-73
					

David Carradine stating that if everybody had martial arts "all over the world" that he thought it would be impossible for a totalitarian govt to oppress people "into anything?"




					rumble.com
				




Which includes the current oppression of all that is well by all that is crooked. Imagine demanding a prize because there isn't one aspect worthwhile or interesting to others? As far as the jealous blutos, they are always there. You can be "kind" or you can set them back, mock them or drop them - thats part of why you studied. They are a "miserable constant" but right now the place is full of jokes, picking on old people and challenging who they shouldn't. 
Let the fortunate be grateful and remember, if they weren't worth it yesterday, they aren't worth it now just because they make noise. Look out for yourself. Sometimes pity one you hate for the old gipper?


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## O'Malley (Jul 20, 2022)

I'm speechless.


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## Steve (Jul 20, 2022)

auntlisa1103 said:


> I encounter jerks every day, but not because I’m a jerk. Because I work in the customer service industry.


Guys, it's like the pirate code.  






That said, I have worked in some pretty wild customer service and public service, and the jerks were pretty rare.  The point is to encourage us all to be introspective.


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## Steve (Jul 20, 2022)

So, getting back to the line cutting situation, how would folks handle that?  You're standing in a line and a douchebag cuts in and gets belligerent... what would you do?  I'm really curious about this.  

I think everyone in the thread, outside of the OP, agrees that it's incredibly anti-social, douchey behavior.  So, how do you all manage these people?


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Jul 20, 2022)

Steve said:


> So, getting back to the line cutting situation, how would folks handle that?  You're standing in a line and a douchebag cuts in and gets belligerent... what would you do?  I'm really curious about this.
> 
> I think everyone in the thread, outside of the OP, agrees that it's incredibly anti-social, douchey behavior.  So, how do you all manage these people?


Depends on how belligerent their getting, and how important/time-sensitive the thing I'm in line for is. If I'm at a takeout restaurant, and the reason for the gap was social distancing due to a covid wave (so the other side of OP's situation), after informing the guy that I was in line if he starts to flip out like I'm guessing OP did I'd just back away and let him go. Especially if I get the feeling he's high-risk of having covid (I'm guessing, but would be very surprised if complaining about OP safety-measures wasn't part of the interaction), I just make sure I keep my distance. Getting egg foo young 5 minutes earlier isn't all that important.


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## Wing Woo Gar (Jul 20, 2022)

Steve said:


> So, getting back to the line cutting situation, how would folks handle that?  You're standing in a line and a douchebag cuts in and gets belligerent... what would you do?  I'm really curious about this.
> 
> I think everyone in the thread, outside of the OP, agrees that it's incredibly anti-social, douchey behavior.  So, how do you all manage these people?


Honestly, interacting with rude people isn’t that difficult.  It just takes a second to remind myself that all people have a bad day sometimes.  I assume that they either are accidentally rude or are dealing with life events that may have overwhelmed their ability to stay within social norms. I may remind them, but more often I just ignore it.  As long as they don’t actually try to touch me, we won’t need to have any interaction.  For example, the other day I was in line at a store and two guys were behind me and began loudly discussing how they had just gotten out of jail and their shared distaste for tattoo.  I am heavily tattooed. They continued on and on, I ignored them completely, then they moved on to how they hate anybody that works in the hospital, I was wearing my scrubs from work.  I continued to ignore them, eventually they tried to actually engage me directly in conversation. I smiled and politely greeted them, then finished my transaction and left.


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## Buka (Jul 20, 2022)

Steve said:


> So, getting back to the line cutting situation, how would folks handle that?  You're standing in a line and a douchebag cuts in and gets belligerent... what would you do?  I'm really curious about this.
> 
> I think everyone in the thread, outside of the OP, agrees that it's incredibly anti-social, douchey behavior.  So, how do you all manage these people?


If I was waiting in line at the local PD, I'd do nothing. Other than that...

You give the scenario of the cutter being a douche bag. Douche bags are bad enough, but then he gets belligerent? 

You're trying to make me smile, aren't you? It worked, bro.


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## Gerry Seymour (Jul 20, 2022)

Steve said:


> So, getting back to the line cutting situation, how would folks handle that?  You're standing in a line and a douchebag cuts in and gets belligerent... what would you do?  I'm really curious about this.
> 
> I think everyone in the thread, outside of the OP, agrees that it's incredibly anti-social, douchey behavior.  So, how do you all manage these people?


I usually call people out on it. Sometimes less tactfully than I think I ought.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Jul 20, 2022)

Gerry Seymour said:


> I usually call people out on it. Sometimes less tactfully than I think I ought.


When covid's not an issue, same. During peak pandemic I would not have.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Jul 20, 2022)

Steve said:


> So, getting back to the line cutting situation, how would folks handle that?


One time I tried to buy a train ticket in Shenyang north train station in China, a Chinese soldier cut in line. I told him to get back in line. He refused and punched at me. I took him down on the concret floor by headlock, and had a good side mount on top of him. 3 Chinese police officiers came and asked me what had happened. I told them that this guy cut in line. Those Chinese police officiers laught at me and left. The guy took off. People around me all blamed on me to start a fight with no good reason (To Chinese, cutting in line is normal human behavior). I stood there and felt like I was an idot.

My girlfriend and I spent 3 weeks traveled in China. She tried to ask people to quit smoking. I tried to stop people from cutting in line. Both of us did something good for the human being.


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## Rich Parsons (Jul 21, 2022)

Steve said:


> So, getting back to the line cutting situation, how would folks handle that?  You're standing in a line and a douchebag cuts in and gets belligerent... what would you do?  I'm really curious about this.
> 
> I think everyone in the thread, outside of the OP, agrees that it's incredibly anti-social, douchey behavior.  So, how do you all manage these people?



It depends

I have just said , I was next. 
I have then asked the guy if he had a pregnant wife at home?
Kids alone in the car?
was he running the order to police or nurses?

with his blank stare the rest of the place laughed and the point was made. 

..

Similar situation people walk in and walk straight up to the counter when the signs and floor "x's" are clearly marked and they ignore it. 
As I shook my head, the older woman (Owner with her husband) stated the line was there. And then they realized that their X was back out in the foyer area. 

..

When a tween at a water park and seeing some cut and when asked to get back in the line they laughed at me. 
So I then cut. 
And I told everyone else to cut in front of them. 
Pretty soon the line handlers had to watch. 
And they realized that no one cut until this one group of people cut. 

So they explained to them to wait in line or be kicked out. 
..

Those that want to start something and think their life is more important than I think my life is, can go forward and be a D bag and I will just comment and or laugh . They need to be called out to learn the social behavior. 
...

Example I traveled to Japan for work. 
I had connections for trains and needed to move. 
The American long stride fast paced walk was interfered with almost on purpose. 
Yet, when I saw people shuffle their feet and say sumimasen the sea parted. 
So I scuffed my feet and spoke the magic "Excuse" phase which was ignored previously as I had not scuffed / shuffled my feet, and I moved faster through the crowds to get to the areas I needed. 

I learned the local social habits.


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## Dirty Dog (Jul 21, 2022)

TularosaKungFu said:


> Haha "virtue signaling" in these times seems to ignore the present realities of people enjoying their self esteem and people taking revenge for their lack of it. The social climate right now, if history serves, is so many playing the dead baby misery bucket, that it drives the rest of people to enjoy what they do even more. A wall of pleasant happy against their miserable ugly efforts.
> Wellbeing and happiness now are called "disrespect"?


Can someone translate this into English?


TularosaKungFu said:


> Nobody is going to walk around pretending to be lame or miserable or anything they dont want to. David Carradine said 50 years ago that "if everybody had martial arts, tyrants couldn't oppress people into anything"
> 
> 
> 
> ...


David Carradine was a narcotic abusing mediocre actor with so-so martial arts skills who choked himself to death while masturbating. Not someone I'd choose as an exemplar.


TularosaKungFu said:


> Which includes the current oppression of all that is well by all that is crooked. Imagine demanding a prize because there isn't one aspect worthwhile or interesting to others? As far as the jealous blutos, they are always there. You can be "kind" or you can set them back, mock them or drop them - thats part of why you studied. They are a "miserable constant" but right now the place is full of jokes, picking on old people and challenging who they shouldn't.
> Let the fortunate be grateful and remember, if they weren't worth it yesterday, they aren't worth it now just because they make noise. Look out for yourself. Sometimes pity one you hate for the old gipper?


May I mumble dogface to the banana patch?


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## Wing Woo Gar (Jul 21, 2022)

Dirty Dog said:


> Can someone translate this into English?
> 
> David Carradine was a narcotic abusing mediocre actor with so-so martial arts skills who choked himself to death while masturbating. Not someone I'd choose as an exemplar.
> 
> May I mumble dogface to the banana patch?


Indecipherable. It sounds like a Roger Miller song. “You can’t roller skate in a Buffalo herd”.


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## Xue Sheng (Jul 21, 2022)

Dirty Dog said:


> Can someone translate this into English?
> 
> David Carradine was a narcotic abusing mediocre actor with so-so martial arts skills who choked himself to death while masturbating. Not someone I'd choose as an exemplar.
> 
> May I mumble dogface to the banana patch?



OK let me try...I think it says...All we have to do is dishwash the tinkle kitten until the bandage is impossible, and we're floppin' crone scone....loosy translate of course 

As for David Carradine.....I never thought of him as a martial artist at all....he just knew how to dance to look like a stereotypical martial artist


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## mograph (Jul 21, 2022)

Well, this thread sure has a laser focus.


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## Steve (Jul 21, 2022)

Monkey Turned Wolf said:


> Depends on how belligerent their getting, and how important/time-sensitive the thing I'm in line for is. If I'm at a takeout restaurant, and the reason for the gap was social distancing due to a covid wave (so the other side of OP's situation), after informing the guy that I was in line if he starts to flip out like I'm guessing OP did I'd just back away and let him go. Especially if I get the feeling he's high-risk of having covid (I'm guessing, but would be very surprised if complaining about OP safety-measures wasn't part of the interaction), I just make sure I keep my distance. Getting egg foo young 5 minutes earlier isn't all that important.


Agreed.  This kind of antisocial behavior is a pretty big red flag. 



Xue Sheng said:


> OK let me try...I think it says...All we have to do is dishwash the tinkle kitten until the bandage is impossible, and we're floppin' crone scone....loosy translate of course


’Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
      Did gyre and gimble in the wabe:
All mimsy were the borogoves,
      And the mome raths outgrabe.


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## Buka (Jul 21, 2022)

Steve said:


> ’Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
> Did gyre and gimble in the wabe:
> All mimsy were the borogoves,
> And the mome raths outgrabe.


"shun The frumious Bandersnatch!”

I dated her in college. I'm still tired.


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## Steve (Jul 21, 2022)

Gerry Seymour said:


> I usually call people out on it. Sometimes less tactfully than I think I ought.


It happens.  I will say something, but much like @Wing Woo Gar , I approach it from the perspective that they just don't know better... like a friendly, "Hey man. There's a line back here."  Never had a situation where someone pushes it beyond that.   

Generally, though, I'm just not in much of a hurry, and am not interested in being the social norms police.  So, if someone cuts me off on the freeway, it doesn't bother me at all.  I will let folks in and try to drive friendly.   I let folks in front of me in the store, if I have a bunch of stuff and they only have one or two items.  


Rich Parsons said:


> It depends
> 
> I have just said , I was next.
> I have then asked the guy if he had a pregnant wife at home?
> ...


Making fun of people, mocking them, or embarrassing them is kind of mean and generally not super helpful, in my opinion.



Rich Parsons said:


> ..
> 
> Similar situation people walk in and walk straight up to the counter when the signs and floor "x's" are clearly marked and they ignore it.
> As I shook my head, the older woman (Owner with her husband) stated the line was there. And then they realized that their X was back out in the foyer area.
> ...


This is pretty typical of what I've seen.  Folks don't realize others are already waiting.  I've had people do that to me before, and I'm always happy to wait in line, if I know where the back of the line actually is.  


Rich Parsons said:


> When a tween at a water park and seeing some cut and when asked to get back in the line they laughed at me.
> So I then cut.
> And I told everyone else to cut in front of them.
> Pretty soon the line handlers had to watch.
> ...


The thought of trying to out-tween a tween sounds like a special kind of torture to me.  That you were able to get other adults to join you in this is surprising to me.  If I were there, I'd shake my head at all of you.  



Rich Parsons said:


> Those that want to start something and think their life is more important than I think my life is, can go forward and be a D bag and I will just comment and or laugh . They need to be called out to learn the social behavior.
> ...


This is interesting to me.  I applaud your optimism that 1: you are the standard for appropriate social behavior and 2: that the folks who "want to start something" are going to learn anything from you.  I wouldn't waste my time.  



Rich Parsons said:


> Example I traveled to Japan for work.
> I had connections for trains and needed to move.
> The American long stride fast paced walk was interfered with almost on purpose.
> Yet, when I saw people shuffle their feet and say sumimasen the sea parted.
> ...


This is a little different. Isn't it? I mean, in this case, the system exists, and you're just learning to work within it.  You weren't disrupting the system.  You were impeded by it.  

What do you think would have happened if you just started pushing your way through the crowd?  Just started shoving people out of your way?  I'm pretty sure you physically could have done so, and made your way through the crowd without much trouble at all.  That's more analogous to someone disrupting the social norm.


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## Xue Sheng (Jul 21, 2022)

Steve said:


> Agreed.  This kind of antisocial behavior is a pretty big red flag.
> 
> 
> ’Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
> ...


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## Steve (Jul 21, 2022)

Buka said:


> "shun The frumious Bandersnatch!”
> 
> I dated her in college. I'm still tired.


Bandersnatch was my prison name.


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## Xue Sheng (Jul 21, 2022)

Steve said:


> Bandersnatch was my prison name.



Hey wait one cotton picken' minute...... that was my cell mates name....WAS THAT YOU!!!!


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## mograph (Jul 21, 2022)

Xue Sheng said:


> Hey wait one cotton picken' minute...... that was my cell mates name....WAS THAT YOU!!!!


Dun DUN Duuuunnnn!


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## TularosaKungFu (Jul 21, 2022)

I seem to be a magnet for the petty misery and jealousy i advocate ignoring?
I always interpret "english please" as a child who couldn't understand in the first place, not an adult pretending they couldn't. "Friendly martial talk" except for the obligatory miserable trolling...


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## O'Malley (Jul 21, 2022)

Buka said:


> "shun The frumious Bandersnatch!”


That's the actor from Dr Strange, right?


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## Xue Sheng (Jul 21, 2022)

O'Malley said:


> That's the actor from Dr Strange, right?



Nah...I'm pretty sure it was a German heavy metal hairband from the 90s


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## Buka (Jul 21, 2022)

O'Malley said:


> That's the actor from Dr Strange, right?


I don't know, I haven't seen Doctor Strange. ( I don't get out much)

But it was a line from Lewis Carroll's The Jabberwocky.


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## Rich Parsons (Jul 21, 2022)

Steve said:


> It happens.  I will say something, but much like @Wing Woo Gar , I approach it from the perspective that they just don't know better... like a friendly, "Hey man. There's a line back here."  Never had a situation where someone pushes it beyond that.
> 
> Generally, though, I'm just not in much of a hurry, and am not interested in being the social norms police.  So, if someone cuts me off on the freeway, it doesn't bother me at all.  I will let folks in and try to drive friendly.   I let folks in front of me in the store, if I have a bunch of stuff and they only have one or two items.
> 
> ...



My apologies it seems like I have upset you or offended you. 

Why one might ask I think that?

You quote about "I wouldn't waste my time". 
Why quote me? 
Why post your opinions about me?
Other than to show you opinion is better than mine and you some how look down on mine. 

All Good. 

When I much younger I used to think I could something from everyone. 
Later I learned that is not true. 
As their (not yours - nor implying anything about you in this statement) level of ignorance or stupidity or lack of caring to change, means I could learn Tolerance. Only sometimes I cannot tolerate it. 

So I walk away or don't engage. 
Yet, I have had people continue to stalk or contact me or show up where I am at to get me to continue to teach them or to help them. 

Sometimes it is just not worth the effort. No matter how hard I try I cannot turn led into gold. 

So, I offer this up to you. 
If I have upset you , or bothered you that was not my intent with the original nor this post. 
I am not on staff, you could put me on ignore. 
Or just choose not to engage. 

That being said, I did not list all the cases. 
I did not stop at "It Depends" as it always will and has done so. 

I am sure you have an opinion of me it is hard to get by our bias, stereotypes, and such. 
Even with claiming open mindedness the tone / choice of words send a message. 

Not sure as yours seem to be saying multiple things at once. 

Be at peace, ignore me if it makes your life better. 
Know it was not intentional


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## Steve (Jul 21, 2022)

Rich Parsons said:


> My apologies it seems like I have upset you or offended you.
> 
> Why one might ask I think that?
> 
> ...


Hey. I’m not upset, and not sure what gave you that impression.  but I can see now that we don’t speak the same language so I’m the future I’ll give you some room. I hope you have a good evening and stay out of the hot weather.


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## Wing Woo Gar (Jul 21, 2022)

Steve said:


> Bandersnatch was my prison name.


Ok, you guys are granny tossing the openings here. I mean, you know I can’t help myself...


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## Wing Woo Gar (Jul 21, 2022)

TularosaKungFu said:


> I seem to be a magnet for the petty misery and jealousy i advocate ignoring?
> I always interpret "english please" as a child who couldn't understand in the first place, not an adult pretending they couldn't. "Friendly martial talk" except for the obligatory miserable trolling...


Huh? Could someone help me start this story at the beginning? I’m a tad bit confused by this post.


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## _Simon_ (Jul 22, 2022)




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## _Simon_ (Jul 22, 2022)

Wing Woo Gar said:


> Huh? Could someone help me start this story at the beginning? I’m a tad bit confused by this post.


I'm confused by this whole thread! Strange imaginative responses... references that go STRAIGHT over my head...

All this thread needs is a dim mak reference and we've truly come full circle!


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## O'Malley (Jul 22, 2022)

_Simon_ said:


> I'm confused by this whole thread! Strange imaginative responses... references that go STRAIGHT over my head...
> 
> All this thread needs is a dim mak reference and we've truly come full circle!


Here you go:




We've got pretty good dim mak restaurants over here.


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## mograph (Jul 22, 2022)

O'Malley said:


> Here you go:
> View attachment 28691
> 
> We've got pretty good dim mak restaurants over here.


But they keep trying to poke the dumplings into my armpit.


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## Steve (Jul 22, 2022)

O'Malley said:


> That's the actor from Dr Strange, right?


I think that was Benedict Cumbersnatch... or was it Banderbatch?  Now I'm confused.


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## Steve (Jul 22, 2022)

O'Malley said:


> Here you go:
> View attachment 28691
> 
> We've got pretty good dim mak restaurants over here.


Dim Mak... the death dumplings.  For when you hate your colon.


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## O'Malley (Jul 22, 2022)

mograph said:


> But they keep trying to poke the dumplings into my armpit.



Worst is when they try to steal your peach.



Steve said:


> I think that was Benedict Cumbersnatch... or was it Banderbatch?  Now I'm confused.



Yes, I thought Buka was talking about that Benevolent Climberstache guy, since he knows a lot of rich and frumious people.


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## mograph (Jul 22, 2022)

Steve said:


> Dim Mak... the death dumplings.  For when you hate your colon.


Well, the pain _is_ delayed ...


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## Wing Woo Gar (Jul 22, 2022)

mograph said:


> But they keep trying to poke the dumplings into my armpit.


I will take two please.


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## Wing Woo Gar (Jul 22, 2022)

_Simon_ said:


> View attachment 28690


? This is kinda creepy.


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## Steve (Jul 22, 2022)

Wing Woo Gar said:


> Huh? Could someone help me start this story at the beginning? I’m a tad bit confused by this post.


"It was a dark and stormy night; the rain fell in torrents, except at occasional intervals, when it was checked by a violent gust of wind which swept up the streets (for it is in London that our scene lies), rattling along the house-tops, and fiercely agitating the scanty flame of the lamps that struggled against the darkness."


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## Steve (Jul 22, 2022)

Steve said:


> "It was a dark and stormy night; the rain fell in torrents, except at occasional intervals, when it was checked by a violent gust of wind which swept up the streets (for it is in London that our scene lies), rattling along the house-tops, and fiercely agitating the scanty flame of the lamps that struggled against the darkness."


Sorry, @Wing Woo Gar , is this too random?  You asked for the beginning of a story...

wait... nevermind.  You wanted the beginning of THIS story.  Boy, am I embarrassed. 

for what it's worth, here's the beginning of another great story. This is a Mike Hammer book by Mickey Spillane:  

"They found me in the gutter. The night was the only thing I had left and not much of it at that. I heard the car stop, the doors open and shut and two voices talking. A pair of arms jerked me to my feet and held me there. "Drunk," the cop said. The other one turned me around into the light. "He don't smell bad. That cut on his head didn't come from a fall either." "Mugged?" "Maybe." I didn't give a damn which way they called it. They were both wrong anyhow. Two hours ago I was drunk. Not now. Two hours ago I was a roaring lion. Then the bottle sailed across the room. No lion left now. Now was a time when I wasn't anything. Nothing was left inside except the feeling a ship must have when it's torpedoed, sinks and hits bottom.“


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Jul 22, 2022)

Wing Woo Gar said:


> Huh? Could someone help me start this story at the beginning? I’m a tad bit confused by this post.


People did not understand his previous response. He took it as people trolling him by asking him to post in English.


----------



## Steve (Jul 22, 2022)

Monkey Turned Wolf said:


> People did not understand his previous response. He took it as people trolling him by asking him to post in English.


Okay, I mean, if you want to actually be helpful.  😅


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## Buka (Jul 22, 2022)

Steve said:


> Dim Mak... the death dumplings.  For when you hate your colon.


Death dumplings, I got a kick out of that. 
I don't hate my colon. Sure we don't talk much, but that's on him. He's an...well, you know.


----------



## drop bear (Jul 22, 2022)

_Simon_ said:


> I'm confused by this whole thread! Strange imaginative responses... references that go STRAIGHT over my head...
> 
> All this thread needs is a dim mak reference and we've truly come full circle!


In summary.


----------



## Wing Woo Gar (Jul 22, 2022)

Steve said:


> "It was a dark and stormy night; the rain fell in torrents, except at occasional intervals, when it was checked by a violent gust of wind which swept up the streets (for it is in London that our scene lies), rattling along the house-tops, and fiercely agitating the scanty flame of the lamps that struggled against the darkness."


Nice!


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## Wing Woo Gar (Jul 22, 2022)

Buka said:


> Death dumplings, I got a kick out of that.
> I don't hate my colon. Sure we don't talk much, but that's on him. He's an...well, you know.


Lol!


----------



## Wing Woo Gar (Jul 22, 2022)

Steve said:


> Sorry, @Wing Woo Gar , is this too random?  You asked for the beginning of a story...
> 
> wait... nevermind.  You wanted the beginning of THIS story.  Boy, am I embarrassed.
> 
> ...


Thank you!


----------



## Wing Woo Gar (Jul 22, 2022)

Steve said:


> Okay, I mean, if you want to actually be helpful.  😅


I will take any attention I can get.


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## Wing Woo Gar (Jul 22, 2022)

drop bear said:


> In summary.


Is that Gurney?


----------



## Steve (Jul 22, 2022)

Buka said:


> Death dumplings, I got a kick out of that.
> I don't hate my colon. Sure we don't talk much, but that's on him. He's an...well, you know.


----------



## drop bear (Jul 22, 2022)

Wing Woo Gar said:


> Is that Gurney?



Nope. Captain Picard was a bit of a bastard back in the day.


----------



## Wing Woo Gar (Jul 22, 2022)

Steve said:


> View attachment 28692


🤣🤣🤣


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## Wing Woo Gar (Jul 22, 2022)

drop bear said:


> Nope. Captain Picard was a bit of a bastard back in the day.


Ha ha, no the dune character.


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## Wing Woo Gar (Jul 22, 2022)

Monkey Turned Wolf said:


> People did not understand his previous response. He took it as people trolling him by asking him to post in English.


I am not certain I understood it either, but not because of the language.


----------

