# Promotions



## Hapkid0ist (Dec 20, 2006)

In my martial career I have studied in Japanese arts, Okinowan arts, Chinese arts, Korean arts and even in the American arts (boxing & wrestling). In most schools and systems regardless of the art or country or origin, most require a student to train for a set number of months for gup promotion and a set number of years for their Dan promotions. At the same time I have run into a few schools (usually few and far between) that permit one to test based on their hours trained and even fewer who permit one to test based on when the instructor feels that they are ready regardless of how long they have trained. 

I understand the benefits of each and agree with the standard arguments that are usually laid out for each. 

I feel that even if you exhibit competency in the art it may not mean that you truly are at the level of understanding needed to progress. It is more like technique memorization and muscle memory but not necessarily technique comprehension. Though there are people who can do things this way, and I believe they should not be penalized because they have not trained as long as others. 

As for years trained, it is not always a justified approach when someone trains 6 days a week 3 plus hours a day. Many of the schools that I have seen that have years trained requirements also have many forms to learn and many times only offer their students a few days a week and no more than 2 hours a class to train, this includes stretching and warm up time. Though it is great for a studio that wants to try and retain students that are dead set on staying until they reach black belt. 

I myself am a proponent of hours trained. When a student trains in an art for 5 hours a day 5 to 6 days a week, they are obviously putting in the same amount of time in that others are if not more. They are developing the muscle memory, technique memory as well as the understanding (should anyways) of the techniques and art that those who have trained for more years but either the same or less hours as them. Yet in many cases these people are ostracized because they have not studied as long in terms of years when in terms of hours trained they may have trained hundreds if not more so than others. 

Even though the hours trained method may not bring in the long term dollars that the years trained can bring in, I believe that it is more productive, and honest. What are your thoughts?


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## wade (Jan 2, 2007)

OK, I know I'm gonna piss some people off here so just bear with me OK? When I have a student that is still in school (K-12) there are attendance requirements that must be met, along with all the other stuff. When I have an adult, weather in college, working or in the military I do make exceptions. On one level I base my testing and promotions on what is learned in their class book, on the other hand I test on weather or not I feel they are BB's or not. There is a difference to me. I spent 3 years in the Corp and 7 years with Army Special Forces and I've ran into every level of martial arts you can imagine. It never stopped amazing me how many good MA's were disowned by their instructors and their systems cause they strayed from the party line. To every one I have just offended by my attitude and the way I run my school and od my testing, well, all I can say is ptttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt...........................


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## Drac (Jan 2, 2007)

wade said:


> When I have a student that is still in school (K-12) there are attendance requirements that must be met, along with all the other stuff.


 
A couple of dojo's up here instituted a grade requirement..Bad grades, no training...It has worked real well...



			
				wade said:
			
		

> It never stopped amazing me how many good MA's were disowned by their instructors and their systems cause they strayed from the party line


 
It is a sad thing..



> To every one I have just offended by my attitude and the way I run my school and od my testing, well, all I can say is ptttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt...........................


 
To offend me your soul would have to plummet to depths unimaginable..Oh by the way it's *Phhhhbbbtttt!!!!!!*


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## wade (Jan 2, 2007)

Sitting here laughing................................................

OK, I only got a 10th grade education and do the best I can, crap, still laughing.  If it wasn't for spell check you wouldn't be able to read any thing I wrote, but thanks, now I do know how to spell PHHBBBTT, CRAP,  I just fell out of my chair........................


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## Drac (Jan 2, 2007)

wade said:


> Sitting here laughing................................................
> 
> OK, I only got a 10th grade education and do the best I can, crap, still laughing. If it wasn't for spell check you wouldn't be able to read any thing I wrote, but thanks, now I do know how to spell PHHBBBTT, CRAP, I just fell out of my chair........................


 
..If I hadn't just seen it in an old *"Bloom County"* cartoon I wouldn't know how to spell it either...LOL...


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## bydand (Jan 2, 2007)

Wade, sounds like you do promotions a lot like the school I train at.  For school age kids, there is a letter of "Intent to Promote" sent home for the parents to review and then on to the teacher at school.  They ask if the attitude has been right, if they are keeping their grades the best the student can, and if the kids show proper respect to teachers and family.  It is just one tool the school uses to physically show the kids that their actions outside the dojo are just as important as their actions inside the dojo. I personally think it is a great idea.

Plus I learned how to give a raspberry online this morning.... BONUS!


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## wade (Jan 2, 2007)

Bydand, no "intent to promote form" no test, bottom line........... Though to be honest I have sent this home with adults and have had their supervisors sign off on it if I was a little worried about them. If I was a lot worried about them I either didn't test them or input them out of the school. This has happened, I'm not happy about it but no one ever said life was fair, eh?


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## bydand (Jan 2, 2007)

wade said:


> Bydand, no "intent to promote form" no test, bottom line........... Though to be honest I have sent this home with adults and have had their supervisors sign off on it if I was a little worried about them. If I was a lot worried about them I either didn't test them or input them out of the school. This has happened, I'm not happy about it but no one ever said life was fair, eh?



Your school, your students, your rules.  That is the way I look at it.  Plus I think an instructor should be looking at more than just what happens in the school.  Plus, if you are worried about someone then good indication they are not ready for promotion, or not fitting into your school.  If life was fair, we'd all be good looking, rich, and drive a mid 40's Indian (Harley if you have to :uhyeah.

I really think promotions should be baised on ability, movement, and attitude.  I have seen way too many people who have been training for years and have an attitude that is just appaling inside the dojo, sure good movement and knowledge, but not helpful at all.


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## Kacey (Jan 2, 2007)

As a teacher in a public school, I am aware of when report cards are due - and my students are expected to show me theirs.  No report card, no participation in class, no worries about an overburdened teacher losing an "intent to test" form on their desk - and I've lost stranger things on my desk, let me tell you!

Grade requirements are fluid, and depend on the student.  For most students, I require a C average or better, and B or better in Citizenship (or equivalent for the student's school).  However, I do have one student who has a biochemical mood disorder, and I allow more leeway for him, because after 9 months in my class, he was, for the first time in his life, placed in regular education instead of the self-contained program for emotionally disturbed students he had been placed in early in elementary school (he's in 8th grade), which has been a struggle for him in many ways... it's a new world for him, and he's doing very well, considering, but he's missed a lot of the little details that most students pick up.

In addition, instead of just looking at grades and saying yes or no, students who are doing poorly have the option of bringing their homework with them to get additional help before or after class and on the weekends.  I know this isn't an option for everyone, but if I'm going to require grades, I feel that it's only fair to provide assistance.  Students who are getting additional assistance are also provided more leeway on their grades, because I know that they are _trying_ - and not every student is good at school, but every person needs something they can succeed at.  If I take away the one thing some of my student are good at - TKD - what incentive do they have to continue to struggle with something difficult - school?  A balance is necessary, IMHO.


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## Kwiter (Jan 3, 2007)

Classes in Citizenship in school now? Or is that just another name for Social Studies/History? At what level my kids are K and 1st grade and haven't heard anything of that sort yet.

Nia:wen Thank you
Perplexed Dad in Brooklyn


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