# South Park Gone Too Far South



## MA-Caver (Apr 14, 2006)

This has been one show that I never really liked, in spite of many of my friends telling me how hilarious the show is and how it shouldn't be taken so seriously. Well I don't take cartoons seriously at all... I love 'em but when they cross certian lines then that's where I draw mine. 
South Park is well known for it's irreverentcy I understand and probably (sadly as well) it's part of it's charm and attraction. "They're not afraid to state their opinon." Afterall... it's satire.
Well neither am I afraid to state what I think, but I'll try to do it with as much tact and diplomacy as possible so to respect the opinion and beliefs of whomever I'm addressing... it's basically about respect, overall. 
In this article: http://entertainment.tv.yahoo.com/entnews/ap/20060413/114497364000.html
The creators of the hit cartoon show struck back at their sponsoring station, Comedy Central's ban of an episode which depicted the Islamic prophet Muhammad. Given the uproar over a similar debacle in England a little while ago that's understandable. But the show's creators, Matt Stone and Trey Parker created "...an image of Jesus Christ defecating on President Bush and the American Flag. Trading one blasphemy for another. 
That's satire? Or is it simple juvenile retaliation? Dictonary dot com defines satire as; Irony or sarcasm or caustic wit used to expose folly, vice or stupidity. Well okay, fine. But show Christ taking a dump on OUR flag? 
"Broadcasting's prestigious Peabody Award director Horace Newcome said at the time, that by it's offensiveness, the show (South Park) reminds us of the need for being tolerant." 
_So, we might as well with that logic and view point, go ahead and tolerate further terrorist acts here in this country. We should go ahead and let Moussaoui go and give him several million dollars in reparations for damages caused. Hell, lets let all the murderers and rapists and pedophiles and skinheads and other radical individuals go from the prisons because we need to tolerate their behavior and mind sets. _

Yeah right... over my dead body! 


Thoughts? Comments? Agree/Disagree?


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## Carol (Apr 14, 2006)

That bothers me a lot.


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## green meanie (Apr 14, 2006)




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## Makalakumu (Apr 14, 2006)

Wouldn't the ultimate expression of our freedom be the ability to portray images like that?  Yes, they are offensive to many, but the point is...freedom.


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## kenpo0324 (Apr 14, 2006)

I really don't care for the South Park, I have seen it a couple of times.
It is definitely not a Cartoon for Children to watch (IMO).


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## Henderson (Apr 14, 2006)

MA-Caver said:
			
		

> But show Christ taking a dump on OUR flag?


I don't care if it's Christ, Ghandi, Hitler, or Ghengis Khan, it's wrong.



			
				upnorthkyosa said:
			
		

> Wouldn't the ultimate expression of our freedom be the ability to portray images like that?


I can certainly understand this line of thinking, and do not begrudge anyone of their opinion, but I would definitely have to disagree. Disrespect hiding behind the guise of Constitutional freedom is just cowardice. Just because you *can* do something, doesn't mean you *should*.

Respects,

Frank


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## OnlyAnEgg (Apr 14, 2006)

There have been many south parks that I have really enjoyed, over the years.  Matt and Trey continuously push the envelope of good taste and censorship.

I do not, however, have any truck with this level of offensiveness.  Attacking the church?  Ok.  Marching on Cananda?  Fine.  Returning the Lord Of The Rings to the Two Towers video store?  All right.

This?  No.


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## Makalakumu (Apr 14, 2006)

Henderson said:
			
		

> I can certainly understand this line of thinking, and do not begrudge anyone of their opinion, but I would definitely have to disagree. Disrespect hiding behind the guise of Constitutional freedom is just cowardice. Just because you *can* do something, doesn't mean you *should*.


 
I'm not sure if I would call it cowardice.  It takes a lot of guts to knowingly offend people.  I would wager that the creators of South Park knew exactly the type of reaction they would receive.  Art is often like that...loaded to get a reaction that points at an ideal.

People have been killed for their art...that takes guts.

Here is an interesting question...is Freedom of Speech worth being offended everyonce and a while?  The Muslim world seems not to think so.  Is this discussion evidence that we aren't so different?

And think about the message a cartoon like that sends.  No body is going to burn things down or blow themselves up in retaliation to this...


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## Carol (Apr 14, 2006)

upnorthkyosa said:
			
		

> I'm not sure if I would call it cowardice. It takes a lot of guts to knowingly offend people. I would wager that the creators of South Park knew exactly the type of reaction they would receive. Art is often like that...loaded to get a reaction that points at an ideal.
> 
> People have been killed for their art...that takes guts.
> 
> ...


 
I agree completely.  Pushing the envelope has been a part of art for centuries.  It didn't start with South Park.

Is Freedom of Speech worth being offended once in awhile?

ABSOLUTELY.

What I don't believe in, however, is one-sided Freedom of Speech.  Just because South Park does something doesn't mean I have to like it or support it.

I believe that Freedom of Speech means South Park can risk offending me as they are with that premise.  I also believe that Freedom of Speech means that me and whoever else doesn't like it can choose to stand up and raise heck about the fact we don't like it.


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## SFC JeffJ (Apr 14, 2006)

Being offended now and again is the price of freedom of speech.  I'll take the offensive cartoons so I can express what I think.  A small price to pay IMO.

Jeff


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## OnlyAnEgg (Apr 14, 2006)

This aspect of free speech has always been sketchy to me, akin to being free to yell 'Fire' in a crowded theater.  It seems to hold little value as anything but a schoolyard dare.


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## beau_safken (Apr 14, 2006)

Dear god whatever...  I thought that last part was freakin hilarious. 

Honestly, if your so far up your own *** that you cant have fun with something..take it as a hint.  Jesus crapping all over the president, the flag and everyone is HUMOR!!!  If we can't show a simple cartoon of muhammad with a salmon helmet on his head.. yet we can show a cartoon of jesus crapping on people...Where does that place us in the heirarchy of things?  

People are just WAY too sensitive and will find any reason to crap on others because they dont like something.  Thank god, muhammad, jesus, allah, bhudda, L ron hubbard, or whatever that Trey Parker and Matt Stone are there fighting for free speech.


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## SFC JeffJ (Apr 14, 2006)

OnlyAnEgg said:
			
		

> This aspect of free speech has always been sketchy to me, akin to being free to yell 'Fire' in a crowded theater.  It seems to hold little value as anything but a schoolyard dare.



I really don't see the comparison.  Yelling "Fire" in a crowded theater could cause panic and the ensuing rush could cause injury or death.  This episode of South Park, or the Dannish editorial cartoons for that matter, does not cause harm.  What causes harm is irrational people acting on thier impulses.  Did the Dannish cartoons cause the violence? No, they did not.  Some idiots thought the best way to respond was to kill people and destroy property.  To paraphrase Tom Jefferson, South Park isn't breaking your leg or taking money from your pocket.

Jeff


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## Ray (Apr 14, 2006)

Carol Kaur said:
			
		

> Is Freedom of Speech worth being offended once in awhile?
> 
> ABSOLUTELY.
> 
> What I don't believe in, however, is one-sided Freedom of Speech. Just because South Park does something doesn't mean I have to like it or support it.


I'm with you there; I don't watch South Park, not because it has offended my people (It has); but because I try to control my intake, in general.

On the other hand, just because I am free to offend people; does that mean I should?  Even though I do, on occaision, offend people I find that I am able to have a more mutually beneficial relationship by not offending others.  Wait, I take that back - except for Democrats cause I offend the heck out of them liberals;  oh, wait and there's people who drive slowly in front of me - I honk loudly and scream at them coz they deserve it.  I almost forgot - "telemarketers", who doesn't offend them in some way- that makes me justified.  

Well, that's about it...no, there's this one guy at work who just rubs me the wrong way, so I rub right back.  And the TKD practitioners, obviously, coz I'm a kenpo guy.  And... and...


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## SFC JeffJ (Apr 14, 2006)

Ray said:
			
		

> I'm with you there; I don't watch South Park, not because it has offended my people (It has); but because I try to control my intake, in general.
> 
> On the other hand, just because I am free to offend people; does that mean I should?  Even though I do, on occaision, offend people I find that I am able to have a more mutually beneficial relationship by not offending others.  Wait, I take that back - except for Democrats cause I offend the heck out of them liberals;  oh, wait and there's people who drive slowly in front of me - I honk loudly and scream at them coz they deserve it.  I almost forgot - "telemarketers", who doesn't offend them in some way- that makes me justified.
> 
> Well, that's about it...no, there's this one guy at work who just rubs me the wrong way, so I rub right back.  And the TKD practitioners, obviously, coz I'm a kenpo guy.  And... and...



Is there anyone that South Park hasn't offended in some way?  I think thier style of satire is a wonderful medium even when it offends my views and beliefs on something.  Kind of helps me step out of myself and re-examine my thoughts.  That being said, it's definetly not a show for everyone.

Jeff


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## Bob Hubbard (Apr 14, 2006)

Lets see:

Jesus vs Santa Claus was the pilot episode.
There is a running theme of Cartman hating Jews, going so far as to dress up like Hitler.
Satan's had a homosexual love affair with a dead Sadamn Husein.
All the little furry woodland critters worship Satan.
Mr. Hankey is a living turd.
Kyle was changed from a short Jewish Kid to a Tall Black kid.
They have Timmy and Jimmy. One is completely retarded, the other a stuttering cripple.
They portray Canadians as funny talking stick figures.
They swear non stop, and T&A jokes abound.
They've shoved a rodent in a mans ***, and portrayed bondage, bestiality and sadomasochism.
They've parodied everything, from star trek to Schindlers List.
They portrayed the religious icons of several major religions a superheros, and rather lame ones at that.
They have savaged everything from the environment, morality, race, religion, politics, etc.

Now, after all that....

1 actor quits because his religion is made fun of.
There is now an uproar over a flag being desecrated by a religious icon.

Ok.......

Bottom line: Yes, it is offensive. But, so is alot of the other stuff they do.
But, "Freedom of Speech" being the misunderstood thing that it is, doesn't apply here.

The FCC (a government agency) didn't stop it. Therefore their 1st amendment rights were not effected.

The network has the right to air or not air things at their discretion. That can be censorship. It's not a violation of the 1st amendment.

While it bothers me, I can understand the message. There is a big stink over some cartoons...a stink which took half a year to build up btw. A stink where people are killing people over a few lame cartoons.  This is their response.

Now, lets all riot in the streets, kill one another, bomb some buildings, and storm the Comedy Central studios, to show the rest of the world that we too, are absolute morons.


South Park is a parody, a satire, of everything and anything.  Nothing is sacred or off limits, as it should be. Yes, it will offend, but in a free society, one must be willing to defend that which they find offensive.  They take things to the extreme, to get a reaction. 

If it bothers you that much, don't watch it.  Me, I'll continue to watch it, be offended by it, and continue to think about what it is really commenting on.


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## Phoenix44 (Apr 14, 2006)

South Park is an equal opportunity offender.  It hits Jews, Christians, Muslims, Mormons, scientologists, gays, straights, men, women, transexuals, cross-dressers, Jesus, Saddam Hussein, Satan, celebrities and regular folks.  I happen to think the show is topical and funny, but if I didn't, I'd exercise my right to change the channel.


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## Rich Parsons (Apr 14, 2006)

MA-Caver said:
			
		

> This has been one show that I never really liked, in spite of many of my friends telling me how hilarious the show is and how it shouldn't be taken so seriously. Well I don't take cartoons seriously at all... I love 'em but when they cross certian lines then that's where I draw mine.
> South Park is well known for it's irreverentcy I understand and probably (sadly as well) it's part of it's charm and attraction. "They're not afraid to state their opinon." Afterall... it's satire.
> Well neither am I afraid to state what I think, but I'll try to do it with as much tact and diplomacy as possible so to respect the opinion and beliefs of whomever I'm addressing... it's basically about respect, overall.
> In this article: http://entertainment.tv.yahoo.com/entnews/ap/20060413/114497364000.html
> ...




Personally I have seen them attack the Christians and the Mormons and also the Christian Scientists. They pick on the Jews ever episode.

So why not the followers of Islam.

What I have as a problem is the fact that a certain star of the Mission Impossible got a RE_RUN pulled of an episode. He said he would not support the promotion of his new movie if it was aired. The movie company and Comedy Central have a single common parent corp if you go high enough. 

So I am not supporting any movies with known C Scientists. I am not supporting any products by Mr. Tom C and or associates. 

If one episode is aired then why not all? 

I see the attack as worded by the article, is nothing but a simple self defense. If Comedy Central drops South Park another company can pick them up. They are a real money maker. So, what I see is the large corporations and wanna be powerful people trying to push forward their own religous agenda.

When I prefer if I could push my agenda of the first ten admendmants of the U.S. Constitution. 

Free Speach. If you do not wish to watch it turn the channel to one of the other channels everyone has on Cable or Satellite. 

Yet, as soon as religion gets involved, people want their own religion protected and all others. 

When the U.S. Constitution talks about making no law or putting any religion above another. 

Yet it seems that some people think it is alright to go after others but not there own house of worship.

I call it all hypocracy.


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## MA-Caver (Apr 14, 2006)

JeffJ said:
			
		

> Being offended now and again is the price of freedom of speech.  I'll take the offensive cartoons so I can express what I think.  A small price to pay IMO.
> 
> Jeff


 I'm sorry but my intelligence is placed at too high of a value to me for someone to insult and offend. Using juvenile potty humor to desecrate two sacred symbols? Did these guys ever grow up? Did they ever get ed-yew-kay-ted? 
For me satire is a good means to point out the ludicracy of some things like; M*A*S*H (the motion picture) did for the Vietnam War and Network News for the media and so on. But this expression was nothing more than retaliatory than satire. They're angry because their sponsor censored them. 
You want to offend people fine. George Carlin, Richard Pryor, Chris Rock, Robin Williams, Lenny Bruce, Dave Chappel, Sam Kinneson to name a few, offended people with their humor sure... they did it intelligently though. Did it with thought, insight, did it in a way that made you* think* about what they were (really) saying. 
Potty humor? Using fecal matter/bodily waste as a means to express your distaste for something? GROW UP Matt Stone and Trey Parker! On one level I can see these guys have had a higher education at some point in their lives... but I'm failing miserably at seeing how they're actually using it. On another level I'm seeing these guys as a pair of second or third graders giggling in the corner of their classroom at some potty humor. 
Excercising your consitutional right to express what you think/feel is alright and I may not agree with it (as Carol Kaur stated) being my consitutional right. But we're smarter than that aren't we? We're smart enough to elevate our thinking and our means of expression to say what we think is wrong with the world without disgusting metaphors and defaming religious and patriotic icons? 
If they want to blaspheme then okay... I cannot judge on that then... by my (personal) beliefs they _will be_ judged by *the* highest court. 
*But* that they want to smear fecal matter on MY flag! MY country! We'll give you the freedom to say what you want... don't crap on it though.
They should've used the Comedy Central Logo if they wanted to express their disgust about their censoring. But of course they wouldn't... that's cutting the bottom out of their purse isn't it? 
I don't watch commericalized televison anymore or at minimum it'll be very selective (educational channels) and very briefly. But I read this news article about what's going on in the television industry and yeah I'll raise a stink about it. Call it hypocracy if you want... it's your consitutional right... ain't it?


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## beau_safken (Apr 14, 2006)

I'm sorry but seeing all those people literally crapping on each other was still funny...potty humor or not...still funny.


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## SFC JeffJ (Apr 14, 2006)

MA-Caver, not trying to be insulting, but why did you quote my post on your last post?  Didn't really seem to fit what you are saying.


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## MA-Caver (Apr 14, 2006)

JeffJ said:
			
		

> MA-Caver, not trying to be insulting, but why did you quote my post on your last post?  Didn't really seem to fit what you are saying.


Boy talk about irony... no offense taken... you were speaking about how being offended is a small price to pay for freedom of speech. Okay, as I stated I've been offended before and probably will be again, but what gets my ire is offending my intelligence by using *lack* of intelligence as the creators of South Park are doing. 
I'm sorry fellas but I don't see _anything_ humorous about the stuff that comes out of my and everyone else's ***.


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## PeteNerd (Apr 14, 2006)

MA-Caver said:
			
		

> I'm sorry but my intelligence is placed at too high of a value to me for someone to insult and offend. Using juvenile potty humor to desecrate two sacred symbols? Did these guys ever grow up? Did they ever get ed-yew-kay-ted?
> For me satire is a good means to point out the ludicracy of some things like; M*A*S*H (the motion picture) did for the Vietnam War and Network News for the media and so on. But this expression was nothing more than retaliatory than satire. They're angry because their sponsor censored them.
> You want to offend people fine. George Carlin, Richard Pryor, Chris Rock, Robin Williams, Lenny Bruce, Dave Chappel, Sam Kinneson to name a few, offended people with their humor sure... they did it intelligently though. Did it with thought, insight, did it in a way that made you* think* about what they were (really) saying.
> Potty humor? Using fecal matter/bodily waste as a means to express your distaste for something? GROW UP Matt Stone and Trey Parker! On one level I can see these guys have had a higher education at some point in their lives... but I'm failing miserably at seeing how they're actually using it. On another level I'm seeing these guys as a pair of second or third graders giggling in the corner of their classroom at some potty humor.
> ...



"What is freedom of expression? Without the freedom to offend, it     ceases to exist."           
_Salman RUSHDIE_​


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## SFC JeffJ (Apr 14, 2006)

MA-Caver said:
			
		

> Boy talk about irony... no offense taken... you were speaking about how being offended is a small price to pay for freedom of speech. Okay, as I stated I've been offended before and probably will be again, but what gets my ire is offending my intelligence by using *lack* of intelligence as the creators of South Park are doing.
> I'm sorry fellas but I don't see _anything_ humorous about the stuff that comes out of my and everyone else's ***.



In a free society, there are going to be things said and done that offend you.  Heck, if I came across someone actually crapping on the flag, I'd be sorely tempted to knock them silly.  If I did, I'd be wrong.

What I would do if I were so offended--

The first step is turn the channel
Next, find out who owns Comedy Central and boycott thier shows/movies.
Don't buy products from companies that advertise on thier networks.
Try to get others to follow your lead.

Personally, I like the complete irreverance that South Park displays about everything.  Yes, they have a lot of "toilet humor".  I think they use that as an abusrd extreme.

And regardless of what you think of thier views and methods, they do have the right to make shows like that.  And I would fight to the death to make sure they continue to do so.

Jeff


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## Flying Crane (Apr 14, 2006)

MA-Caver said:
			
		

> Well okay, fine. But show Christ taking a dump on OUR flag?


 
Just out of curiosity, because of the way you emphasized the word OUR, is there someone else's flag that you would find less insulting, or even appropriate, to portray Jesus taking a crap on?


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## Makalakumu (Apr 14, 2006)

PeteNerd said:
			
		

> "What is freedom of expression? Without the freedom to offend, it ceases to exist."
> 
> _Salman RUSHDIE_​


 
Exactly.  And that is why millions of Muslims would like to kill that guy...


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## MA-Caver (Apr 14, 2006)

Flying Crane said:
			
		

> Just out of curiosity, because of the way you emphasized the word OUR, is there someone else's flag that you would find less insulting, or even appropriate, to portray Jesus taking a crap on?



Ok, Ok, MY Flag My Flag... My Country... 
I realize that there are members of this forum who are from out side these United States of America. 



 I'm pretty sure you knew what I _meant_, but I'll PC myself regardless that it's my constitutional right to offend... though it was never my intent.


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## SFC JeffJ (Apr 14, 2006)

MA-Caver said:
			
		

> Boy talk about irony... no offense taken... you were speaking about how being offended is a small price to pay for freedom of speech. Okay, as I stated I've been offended before and probably will be again, but what gets my ire is offending my intelligence by using *lack* of intelligence as the creators of South Park are doing.
> I'm sorry fellas but I don't see _anything_ humorous about the stuff that comes out of my and everyone else's ***.



Still seems to be a bit of a non-sequitor to me. Or is that nonsequitor?

Jeff


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## swiftpete (Apr 14, 2006)

South Park has managed be offensive about just about everyone. I think it's a very funny show.  Silly humour might not be everyone's thing but it does make a lot of people laugh a lot, including me. I don't understand why anyone should say that people who have that sort of a sense of humour need to grow up? What sort of humour should a 'grown up' enjoy?


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## Flying Crane (Apr 14, 2006)

MA-Caver said:
			
		

> Ok, Ok, MY Flag My Flag... My Country...
> I realize that there are members of this forum who are from out side these United States of America.
> 
> 
> ...


 
Some people are of the opinion that the flag of the United States somehow deserves greater respect than the flag of other nations.  Just checking, that's all.  thx.


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## Rich Parsons (Apr 14, 2006)

Flying Crane said:
			
		

> Some people are of the opinion that the flag of the United States somehow deserves greater respect than the flag of other nations. Just checking, that's all. thx.




And others think that burning it is bad. When that is actually one of the approved methods of destroying an old US Flag. 

It is not the issue of should you hold it as untouchable but should you allow people to express their issues with the government at hand. Otherwise one might find an upset group willing to resist or create a much larger problem.

Just my thoughts


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## Flying Crane (Apr 14, 2006)

Rich Parsons said:
			
		

> And others think that burning it is bad. When that is actually one of the approved methods of destroying an old US Flag.
> 
> It is not the issue of should you hold it as untouchable but should you allow people to express their issues with the government at hand. Otherwise one might find an upset group willing to resist or create a much larger problem.
> 
> Just my thoughts


 
good points


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## crushing (Apr 14, 2006)

While seemingly juvenile, I think it goes deeper and exposes a double standard.  Comedy Central would not allow ANY depiction of Mohammed, yet it would allow the described scene of a defecating Jesus.

What was Comedy Central's reason for not allowing the depiction of Mohammed?  Was it because Comedy Central are bigotted and believe that some Islamist fundamentalists would react in an irrational manner that could lead to injuries of persons, destruction of property and possibly death, yet they don't think that Jews and Christians will react in the same manner?

Yes, my questions are disengenous.  But, I do think there was more meaning to this episode than a 'crapping' Jesus.  Sometimes, double-standards are more about the targets of those standards, than those that use those standards.

Well, back to my Rushdie novel, _Gibreel and Saladin's Excellent Adventure_, or was it a bogus journey?


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## crushing (Apr 14, 2006)

Rich Parsons said:
			
		

> And others think that burning it is bad. When that is actually one of the approved methods of destroying an old US Flag.
> [...]



The approved method of burning includes the qualifier of 'in a dignified manner.'

Also, given the two choices, I'd rather see a burning U.S. flag, than a burning U.S. Constitution.  When it becomes illegal to burn the flag, it will really mean something to burn the flag.


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## heretic888 (Apr 14, 2006)

Just one question, guys....

How many of you have actually _seen_ the episode in question??


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## Rich Parsons (Apr 14, 2006)

heretic888 said:
			
		

> Just one question, guys....
> 
> How many of you have actually _seen_ the episode in question??



I missed this one. But I have seen almost every other episode.


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## Carol (Apr 14, 2006)

Rich Parsons said:
			
		

> And others think that burning it is bad. When that is actually one of the approved methods of destroying an old US Flag.


 

But there is a difference. 

What is the difference between beating someone up and and sparring?   Why would one land me in jail? 

From what I can tell... is sparring is a specific procedure with a tradition behind it.  Rules must be followed.  It has to be done at an suitable place, by appropriate people.

"Flag burning" can land a person in jail in many states. 

Retiring a flag is a specific procedure with a tradition behind it.


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## beau_safken (Apr 14, 2006)

heretic888 said:
			
		

> Just one question, guys....
> 
> How many of you have actually _seen_ the episode in question??


 
Just about the second the torrent hit the net... HELL YA I SAW IT AND IT ROCKED!!!


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## Makalakumu (Apr 14, 2006)

crushing said:
			
		

> While seemingly juvenile, I think it goes deeper and exposes a double standard. Comedy Central would not allow ANY depiction of Mohammed, yet it would allow the described scene of a defecating Jesus.
> 
> What was Comedy Central's reason for not allowing the depiction of Mohammed? Was it because Comedy Central are bigotted and believe that some Islamist fundamentalists would react in an irrational manner that could lead to injuries of persons, destruction of property and possibly death, yet they don't think that Jews and Christians will react in the same manner?
> 
> ...


 
Excellent point about the double standard.  I was thinking the same thing.  And it would not surprise me one bit if that was the message being sent.


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## Rich Parsons (Apr 14, 2006)

Carol Kaur said:
			
		

> But there is a difference.
> 
> What is the difference between beating someone up and and sparring?   Why would one land me in jail?
> 
> ...



Carol there may be state laws about this. But there is nothing Federal and there is nothing in the US Constitution about this. 

Is it an insult? Yes, or else the act would not be sued to gather attention.

Would I do it or be at an event that was doing it? I do not think so, unless I as thereby mistake and did not know it was going on. 

Would I argue they have the right to protest their government as long as they do not break the laws of the land in which they reside. Some local areas require permits, as simple as $25, others require the permits to cover the cost of security provided by the police. Others are inbetween.

My point was that Flag Burning and defication is not the real issue here.

The real issue here is that a certain group is trying to push their agenda with influence on large corporations when it insults themselves but they are more than willing to make all the money in the world as long as they insult everyone else. 

Hypocracy. 

So I choose to make my point available and also to let them know through my own boycotts to not support these organizations. 


I still argue that the show in hand has the right to present their opinion. This is not like they are breaking ground here, this is just another episode and might even be considered one of their more tame episodes. Yet, some are taking exception. 

Just my thoughts while fighting a cold


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## MA-Caver (Apr 14, 2006)

crushing said:
			
		

> While seemingly juvenile, I think it goes deeper and exposes a double standard.  Comedy Central would not allow ANY depiction of Mohammed, yet it would allow the described scene of a defecating Jesus.
> 
> What was Comedy Central's reason for not allowing the depiction of Mohammed?  Was it because Comedy Central are bigotted and believe that some Islamist fundamentalists would react in an irrational manner that could lead to injuries of persons, destruction of property and possibly death, yet they don't think that Jews and Christians will react in the same manner?


That's probably because Christians and Jews aren't well known for violent acts of protest. Muslims are. Christians are more likely to walk up to them and point and say (in a southern accent) "Damn you to hell!" Jews have their own way but it's not going to go poof in anyone's faces. (Radical) Muslims have a nasty habit of walking into buildings and along sidewalks and shouting "Allah Akbar" and going POOM! 
But of course the creators of South Park *are* equal opportunity offenders, they just haven't been allowed to go all out on the Muslim faith that's all and thus they threw a tantrum and came up with a defecating Jesus. 
That's how I see it. Childish reaction for not getting their own way.


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## Ray (Apr 14, 2006)

MA-Caver said:
			
		

> That's probably because Christians and Jews aren't well known for violent acts of protest. Muslims are


Kinda reminds me of my youthful days at home, we spent much time appeasing the violent drunk that we called "dad."


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## jazkiljok (Apr 14, 2006)

upnorthkyosa said:
			
		

> Excellent point about the double standard.  I was thinking the same thing.  And it would not surprise me one bit if that was the message being sent.



THAT was the whole point. Jesus defecating on Bush, the american flag etc.. NOT CENSORED. and NO RIOTS, no mass demostrations, no killing...

comedy central and this country in general is being cowed by the threat of irrational, religiously intolerant fascist-islamic violence.

if there is a war actually being fought in this so called WAR ON GLOBAL terror (which didn't really include the IRA, the Basque separatists, Hamas etc.)-- it's the one where we as a tolerant nation buckle under to these skumbags with their 72 virgins awaiting their ultimate sacrifice.

south park is firing the first real salvo at our own cowardice on the matter of free speech-- the single most important freedom this country was founded on.

like many cartoonists, these guys aren't really in it, just for laughs.


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## SFC JeffJ (Apr 14, 2006)

Excellent point jazkiljok.

Jeff


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## Marginal (Apr 14, 2006)

MA-Caver said:
			
		

> But the show's creators, Matt Stone and Trey Parker created "...an image of Jesus Christ defecating on President Bush and the American Flag. Trading one blasphemy for another.
> That's satire? Or is it simple juvenile retaliation? Dictonary dot com defines satire as; Irony or sarcasm or caustic wit used to expose folly, vice or stupidity. Well okay, fine. But show Christ taking a dump on OUR flag?


 
Free speech. If you restrict it, or bow to outside pressures, the terrorists win. Besides, Jesus was acting more like a lawn sprinkler, and the flag was the background. He wasn't really pooing on the flag per se.



> That's probably because Christians and Jews aren't well known for violent acts of protest.



Try to tell that to abortion clinic employees.


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## bushidomartialarts (Apr 14, 2006)

parker and stone are visionaries and geniuses.

in an age where we're in danger of losing our rights because of a pathological need to be 'sensitive', these guys are out there saying 'no way'.  

not everybody gets their humor.  almost everybody has been offended by them.  but their satire (and it is satire) is on the same list as lenny bruce and sam kineson.  they do as much for our inalienable rights as the soldiers in iraq -- although they don't take the same risks.

jeffj said it perfectly.  being offended is the price of having free speech.

desecrating the flag is offensive to our values.  the only thing more offensive would be to prevent another from doing so.


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## Edmund BlackAdder (Apr 15, 2006)

South Park picks on everyone. After 10 years, getting pissed now is rather stupid.

It's a TV show. Like Howard Stern, if you don't like it, there are 1,000 other shows to be bored by.


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## Rich Parsons (Apr 15, 2006)

jazkiljok said:
			
		

> THAT was the whole point. Jesus defecating on Bush, the american flag etc.. NOT CENSORED. and NO RIOTS, no mass demostrations, no killing...
> 
> comedy central and this country in general is being cowed by the threat of irrational, religiously intolerant fascist-islamic violence.
> 
> ...




SHHHHH! You would not want to educate the Chirstian Masses to the Christian Terrorists out there. They are much happier being in the dark.

Seriously, I agree that is the point if you allow this to control you then the terror and the terrorist have won.


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## bignick (Apr 16, 2006)

MA-Caver said:
			
		

> That's probably because Christians and Jews aren't well known for violent acts of protest. Muslims are.



Tell that to the folks in Ireland.


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## bushidomartialarts (Apr 16, 2006)

bignick said:
			
		

> Tell that to the folks in Ireland.



actually, i think caver's right on this one.  ireland's a sort of special case.

christans got the first guns.  therefore, they're mostly known for violent acts of _conquest_.  hard to get a rep for protest when you're the ones in charge.


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## Hand Sword (Apr 17, 2006)

It's a cartoon.


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## Jonathan Randall (Apr 17, 2006)

Henderson said:
			
		

> I can certainly understand this line of thinking, and do not begrudge anyone of their opinion, but I would definitely have to disagree. Disrespect hiding behind the guise of Constitutional freedom is just cowardice. Just because you *can* do something, doesn't mean you *should*.
> 
> Respects,
> 
> Frank


 
Great point! Having the _right _to do something is not the same as it being right or necessary for you to do it.

Personally, while not a Christian, I am offended by unwarranted attacks upon Christian (as well as other faith's) symbols and traditions.

Unfortunately I've used up my reputation power or I'd have positively rep'd you for such an insightful post. :asian:


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## phlaw (Apr 17, 2006)

If you don't like it don't watch it.


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## DavidCC (Apr 17, 2006)

> The creators of the hit cartoon show struck back at their sponsoring station, Comedy Central's ban of an episode which depicted the Islamic prophet Muhammad. Given the uproar over a similar debacle in England a little while ago that's understandable. But the show's creators, Matt Stone and Trey Parker created "...an image of Jesus Christ defecating on President Bush and the American Flag. Trading one blasphemy for another.
> That's satire? Or is it simple juvenile retaliation?


 
It's amazing to me that CC will pull an episode that shows Muhammed basically doing nothing, but are happy to show Jesus defecating on a flag.  What kind of principles lead them to believe this was the right thing to do?  

I think the SP guys did it just to point out the hypocrisy and lack of principle in the executives at CC.


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## Kreth (Apr 17, 2006)

MA-Caver said:
			
		

> (Radical) Muslims have a nasty habit of walking into buildings and along sidewalks and shouting "Allah Akbar" and going POOM!


And (radical) Christians brought us lovely things like the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, and the Salem Witch Trials. :uhyeah:


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## Bob Hubbard (Apr 17, 2006)

And George Bush.  Let us not forget George Bush.

Hey....have SP done a spoof on him yet? Or the Florida debacle, or any other such stuff?


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## kid (Apr 17, 2006)

It is only a cartoon.  You don't need to watch it.   If someone offends you, do you demand that they leave never to be seen again by anyone?  This thread is going off the wall into crazytown; and, anybody can have a free first class, one way ticket.  I for one am happy to be able to share my opinion with any who will *listen.*


Kid


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## bignick (Apr 17, 2006)

> And George Bush. Let us not forget George Bush.
> 
> Hey....have SP done a spoof on him yet? Or the Florida debacle, or any other such stuff?


yes


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## SFC JeffJ (Apr 17, 2006)

Thought this was very well said.

Dear Editor:

The fear pervading the American media is stunning. 

The latest show of fear is Comedy Central's refusal to broadcast an image of Muhammad in this week's episode of "South Park."

Given that a scene in the same episode showed Jesus defecating on the American flag, it is clear that Comedy Central's decision not to show Muhammad was motivated not by good taste or concern for religious sensibilities but by fear. If Comedy Central had reason to fear violence from Christians, it wouldn't have allowed a scene with Jesus either.

As if on cue, Comedy Central complied with Zacarias Moussaoui's vision for America's future: "You [Americans] have to be subdued." Borders and Waldenbooks have already been subdued when they refused to stock "Free Inquiry" magazine. So has every media outlet in the country that did not publish or broadcast the Muhammad cartoons.

The pervasive fear that has taken hold of our media will only be dispelled when our government takes the necessary actions to ensure their safety and protect our right to speak, denounce and offend anyone, especially those who today seek to subjugate us to Islam and its taboos.

David Holcberg
Ayn Rand Institute


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## heretic888 (Apr 17, 2006)

Bob Hubbard said:
			
		

> And George Bush. Let us not forget George Bush.
> 
> Hey....have SP done a spoof on him yet? Or the Florida debacle, or any other such stuff?


 
I'm suddenly reminded of the episode where President Bush, upon learning that the now-deceased Saddam Hussein was hiding out in Heaven, was trying to convince the United Nations to "bomb Heaven".

One of the delegates' response: "Are you high??"

Classic. 

Laterz.


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## Marginal (Apr 17, 2006)

DavidCC said:
			
		

> It's amazing to me that CC will pull an episode that shows Muhammed basically doing nothing, but are happy to show Jesus defecating on a flag. What kind of principles lead them to believe this was the right thing to do?


 
The exact same principles that Cartman displayed though the two episodes.


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## Shizen Shigoku (Apr 17, 2006)

Profanity is wrong.
Censorship is worse.

I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death . . .


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## FearlessFreep (Apr 18, 2006)

Censorship only applies to the government prohibiting the people frm saying certain things

CC's right to air or not air what they choose to, or not to, is their protected free-speech right as much as Parker and Stone have the right to create cartoons that say what they want to say.

Just as our own Bob Hubbard has a free-speech right not to have these forums used as advertising for any Crackpot-McDojo-Soke-Ninja-Master who wants to sell his top secret fighting techniques, Comedy Central has a free-speech right not to show South Park if they don't want to.

Make no mistake, South Park is an enterprise, like Comedy Central.  This is not about two little guys trying to stand up to the big bad corporation that wants to censor their free-speech rights.  This is simply about two private enterprises, both of whom enjoy free-speech rights, in a conflict because one of the wants to sell their stuff and the other one doesn't want to be the one showing the stuff to sell.  When it gets down to it, it's just a contract dispute over what sort of obligation and/or editorial control Comedy Central has over South Park episodes


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