# How to make sure people disagree with you!



## geezer (Jun 10, 2016)

Over the years that I've participated on this forum, I've encountered a huge variety of personalities ....individuals with varying degrees of experience in WC/VT/WT and related arts such as JKD, and some interesting contributors coming from outside perspectives. And contrary to those who dismiss these forums as totally frivolous, I've actually learned _a lot _from our discussions.

On the other hand, there are certain individuals who, in spite of their considerable knowledge, only provoke argumentation rather than meaningfully sharing and contributing. In my experience, these folks are _not_ the "trolls" they are sometimes labelled, but sincere in their beliefs. The problem is that they are _so _sure of themselves and so dismissive of others that they end up eliciting hostility rather than agreement completely losing their audience.

So, for the benefit of any here who wish to actually care to share ideas about WC/VT/WT, I'm going to propose that we all pitch in and draft a few guidelines to help if you really want to reach people in a discussion. I'll kick start the list with my 2 cents:

1. Don't come across as _overbearingly certain _of how correct and right you, your sifu, or your lineage is. If you are really 100% certain that you have the all answers, there is no room or need for discussion, so move on please! 

2. Have a sense of _humor._ Don't be afraid to laugh a bit or add a silly post, marked with an appropriate imoge so we all know that it's all in fun. Remember, we mostly hang out here to have a good time, right? 

3. ???


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## Phobius (Jun 10, 2016)

3. If a statement you made has been met with resounding resilience and/or hostility. Do not repeat said statement. This is a good time to consider discussing said statement from a more friendly and open minded perspective in a new and separate thread. Or to just drop it altogether.


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## geezer (Jun 10, 2016)

Phobius said:


> 3. If a statement you made has been met with resounding resilience and/or hostility. Do not repeat said statement. This is a good time to consider discussing said statement from a more friendly and open minded perspective in a new and separate thread. Or to just drop it altogether.



I'm not sure any of us would back off on a strongly held belief just because it was unpopular. But in my case, I'd certainly be willing to qualify that belief as a matter of my personal experience and opinion, and be willing to concede that others make a legitimate point as well. _A little humility goes a long way in terms of smoothing things out!

So..._
#4. Have a little humility and acknowledge that others may have a valid point.


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## Xue Sheng (Jun 10, 2016)

#5. I am always right and everyone else is always wrong 

Seriously

#5. Approach discussion like you are having the conversation in the same room.


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## geezer (Jun 10, 2016)

Xue Sheng said:


> #5. I am always right and everyone else is always wrong



Well, of course we humbly acknowledge_ your_ wisdom as the only man without a _black frame_ around his portrait universally referred to as _Da Shifu,_ the undisputed _GM of Xue-quan_.


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## Nobody Important (Jun 10, 2016)

#6 Throw in an occasional please, thank you or you're welcome. A little courtesy goes a long way.

#7 Admit when you're wrong or don't know and apologize if necessary for being rude. Mo Duk should extended beyond the training hall.


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## Tez3 (Jun 10, 2016)

geezer said:


> 2. Have a sense of _humor._ Don't be afraid to laugh a bit or add a silly post, marked with an appropriate imoge so we all know that it's all in fun. Remember, we mostly hang out here to have a good time, right



Ah but what if only a few people share your sense of humour ( which in my case is true as only cops, medics and military share it) then people don't appreciate your comedic bon mots and think you are angry/annoyed/getting at them.



Xue Sheng said:


> #5. Approach discussion like you are having the conversation in the same room.



Now, that I do so yes I'm the same annoying personality in person as I am online.  The only thing I don't do on line is double entendres as I find so many non Brits don't understand them.


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## JowGaWolf (Jun 10, 2016)

geezer said:


> Over the years that I've participated on this forum, I've encountered a huge variety of personalities ....individuals with varying degrees of experience in WC/VT/WT and related arts such as JKD, and some interesting contributors coming from outside perspectives. And contrary to those who dismiss these forums as totally frivolous, I've actually learned _a lot _from our discussions.
> 
> On the other hand, there are certain individuals who, in spite of their considerable knowledge, only provoke argumentation rather than meaningfully sharing and contributing. In my experience, these folks are _not_ the "trolls" they are sometimes labelled, but sincere in their beliefs. The problem is that they are _so _sure of themselves and so dismissive of others that they end up eliciting hostility rather than agreement completely losing their audience.
> 
> ...


Things getting that rough in the WC/VT/WT discussions?  I know I usually enjoy and learn from those discussions right up until the point of lineage discussions.   As an outsider I would like to see the WC/VT/WT practitioners not get into the discussions related to lineage and "true WC/VT/WT etc" type discussions.   Lineage seems to be a really touchy subject for the systems.


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## Phobius (Jun 10, 2016)

JowGaWolf said:


> Things getting that rough in the WC/VT/WT discussions?  I know I usually enjoy and learn from those discussions right up until the point of lineage discussions.   As an outsider I would like to see the WC/VT/WT practitioners not get into the discussions related to lineage and "true WC/VT/WT etc" type discussions.   Lineage seems to be a really touchy subject for the systems.



Lineage discussion and talk about what was the original or supreme version is like the 'friend' you just dont want invited to your party. There is always someone inviting that guy who will just drink up all the alcohol, trash your house and make inappropriate sexual advances on the ladies. Making everyone feel uneasy until eventually that guy ends up in a big fight with someone causing the cops to arrive and stop the party early.


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## drop bear (Jun 10, 2016)

JowGaWolf said:


> Things getting that rough in the WC/VT/WT discussions?  I know I usually enjoy and learn from those discussions right up until the point of lineage discussions.   As an outsider I would like to see the WC/VT/WT practitioners not get into the discussions related to lineage and "true WC/VT/WT etc" type discussions.   Lineage seems to be a really touchy subject for the systems.



Yeah they do. There are some epic semantic debates.


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## drop bear (Jun 10, 2016)

Xue Sheng said:


> #5. I am always right and everyone else is always wrong
> 
> Seriously
> 
> #5. Approach discussion like you are having the conversation in the same room.



I keep it toned down for the forums.


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## Tez3 (Jun 10, 2016)

drop bear said:


> I keep it toned down for the forums.



ROFLMAO, says the man who stated posting on here was sparring.


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## drop bear (Jun 10, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> ROFLMAO, says the man who stated posting on here was sparring.



I am sparring light with you guys.


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## Tez3 (Jun 10, 2016)

drop bear said:


> I am sparring light with you guys.



You admit then that you post in a way that is designed to be contentious.


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## drop bear (Jun 10, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> You admit then that you post in a way that is designed to be contentious.



Ladies first.


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## drop bear (Jun 10, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> You admit then that you post in a way that is designed to be contentious.



No i post in a way where i accept my humble opinion is humble and that i may encounter someone else's opinion that disagrees with that. 

Because if conversation is not sparring then it is dogma.


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## Phobius (Jun 10, 2016)

drop bear said:


> No i post in a way where i accept my humble opinion is humble and that i may encounter someone else's opinion that disagrees with that.
> 
> Because if conversation is not sparring then it is dogma.



Instead of sparring, you mean you approach it as a conversation? Just throwing another word out there for our fighting enthusiasts.

EDIT: Just realized I did not throw that word out there, it was already painted on walls and ceilings. This is what blindness gets you.


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## drop bear (Jun 10, 2016)

Phobius said:


> Instead of sparring, you mean you approach it as a conversation? Just throwing another word out there for our fighting enthusiasts.
> 
> EDIT: Just realized I did not throw that word out there, it was already painted on walls and ceilings. This is what blindness gets you.



The original idea was.  You throw an idea out there.  People throw their own out there sometimes it works sometimes you get smashed in the face.  Either way you learn sometimes.

Being nice and agreeing with people all the time makes your brain rot.


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## Phobius (Jun 10, 2016)

I see, that was not exactly what I thought you meant. Point sparring or full contact?


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## Steve (Jun 10, 2016)

Just throwing out some rules I think are helpful.  Hopefully, you guys do, as well. 

#8:  Because 99% of what we discuss is subjective, consider the possibility that you might both be right. 
#9:  Because we are all fallible, consider the possibility that the other guy was just having a bad day and didn't really mean what he said.
#10:  Because we're all still learning and none of us knows everything, (not even Xue ), consider that a person's opinions or position may have evolved or even changed completely since the last time a topic came up.
#11:  Because none of us really knows the other, consider that there may be a big difference between what was intended and what was perceived.


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## Steve (Jun 10, 2016)

drop bear said:


> The original idea was.  You throw an idea out there.  People throw their own out there sometimes it works sometimes you get smashed in the face.  Either way you learn sometimes.
> 
> Being nice and agreeing with people all the time makes your brain rot.


I think being nice should always be the goal.  Some people equate disagreement with rudeness or meanness.  I think it's neither.  I think you can disagree and still be nice.  Conversely, disagreeing with you doesn't equate to being mean to you.


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## Steve (Jun 10, 2016)

#12:  Sometimes, even if you think something isn't funny, it really is. 
#13:  Sometimes, even if you think something is funny, it really isn't.


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## JowGaWolf (Jun 10, 2016)

drop bear said:


> I keep it toned down for the forums.


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## geezer (Jun 10, 2016)

_Hmmm_. Have you noticed that the people posting on here are not the people that have "issues" and need to be reading this stuff?. I just hope those other guys eventually bother to read what you guys have been saying ...and consider that _all _of us have verbally "gotten into it" with each other from time to time and still been "friends at the end of the day" ....to quote the formidable and venerable _Crafty Dog_ (who BTW hosts the last living forum on our sister-site, FMA Talk).


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## yak sao (Jun 10, 2016)

I have found myself coming here less often and not posting as much because of "you know who" and  'you know who 2".

Like geezer, I've learned a lot here but ultimately I simply enjoy talking with like minded folks.... when I try to talk to my wife about this stuff I just simply get blank stares or lectures about thinking about more important things.

So when I get on here and it becomes a hassle, it becomes more trouble than it's worth.

#14. Lighten up. It's just not that important.


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## kakkattekoi (Jun 10, 2016)

JowGaWolf said:


> Things getting that rough in the WC/VT/WT discussions?  I know I usually enjoy and learn from those discussions right up until the point of lineage discussions.   As an outsider I would like to see the WC/VT/WT practitioners not get into the discussions related to lineage and "true WC/VT/WT etc" type discussions.   Lineage seems to be a really touchy subject for the systems.



I agree that things go well until the topic got related to lineage

I know that WSLWC style is very popular in the west and YM style is diff (in a way) or basically every lineage has its unique style like chow tze chuen is more known for foot work and kicks.  
In my humble opinion, just try to learn the idea when someone else share it.  Due  YM teaching style and everyone absorb the idea differently


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## Nobody Important (Jun 10, 2016)

yak sao said:


> I have found myself coming here less often and not posting as much because of "you know who" and  'you know who 2".
> 
> Like geezer, I've learned a lot here but ultimately I simply enjoy talking with like minded folks.... when I try to talk to my wife about this stuff I just simply get blank stares or lectures about thinking about more important things.
> 
> ...


Correct! Same here, just a place to talk with people who have a common interest. I don't come here to argue "authenticity" or push an agenda. I don't mind disagreement if it's logical, we all get tunnel vision once in awhile. At the end of the day it's just a conversation with faceless entities, no need to take anything too seriously. No one here is a guiding force in my life, I've never met anyone here in person, not to say I'm not open to meeting new people. Personally I think an informal gathering would be awesome, there is literally no Kung Fu near me , all karate. And those guys just don't really understand me, lol!


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## paitingman (Jun 10, 2016)

Rule/suggestion # ??:

It's a two sided issue.
Understand that when posting on any thread, you are entering a discussion with emotional/prideful beings. Not typing robots. While it would be nice for everyone to not have negative emotional responses to posts or even insults, you simply cannot expect for that to be the case. You've got to accept backlash and offence will be taken to your posts sometimes (and maybe strategize to where that will happen less often) 

On the other hand, try not to get so caught up in trivial elements/details you may find slightly insulting. 

(having said all that I really do enjoy learning on this forum, though I don't often post my own thoughts. There is a lot of great discussion going on here, you just have to wade through a lot of bickering to get to really informative discussion)


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## drop bear (Jun 10, 2016)

Steve said:


> I think being nice should always be the goal.  Some people equate disagreement with rudeness or meanness.  I think it's neither.  I think you can disagree and still be nice.  Conversely, disagreeing with you doesn't equate to being mean to you.



Like sparring.

Se wot i did thur?


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## Kung Fu Wang (Jun 11, 2016)

geezer said:


> _Hmmm_. Have you noticed that the people posting on here are not the people that have "issues" and need to be reading this stuff?


That's not a bad thing after all. Sometime it's nice for a while that you don't have to hear someone said:

- You are wrong ...
- You don't know ...
- You should not ...
- ...

I wish someone will just say, "I disagree with you" instead of to say, "You are wrong."


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## Kung Fu Wang (Jun 11, 2016)

paitingman said:


> Understand that when posting on any thread, you are entering a discussion with emotional/prideful beings.


When you

- open your window, both butterflies and mosquitoes will fly in.
- start a thread, both positive opinions and negative opinions will arrive.

IMO, it's better to receive negative opinions than not receiving any opinion at all.

When

- someone attacks you, at least you still exist.
- everybody ignore you, you don't even exist.


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## JowGaWolf (Jun 11, 2016)

geezer said:


> Have you noticed that the people posting on here are not the people that have "issues" and need to be reading this stuff?


 Whenever I think of this, I just remind myself that those who will benefit most from these type of discussions are people who are new to martial arts.  Everyone else is pretty much set in their ways. The good thing is that when they see the behavior that is being discussed, they will remember that they heard this discussion even though they can't remember where.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Jun 11, 2016)

JowGaWolf said:


> Whenever I think of this, I just remind myself that those who will benefit most from these type of discussions are people who are new to martial arts.


A good friend of mine once asked me, "Why do you spend time in online discussion? What can you do if someone said bad thing about you?"

IMO, MA is only trained by just a very small percentage of people. I had knocked on my neighbor's door and asked if they are willing to spar/wrestle with me for 15 rounds. They all looked at me as if I came from another planet. As long as we can speak the same language (such as kick, punch, lock. throw, mount, ...) and share information about something that we all love here, to raise our blood pressure up once in a while should be the least price that we all have to pay.


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## guy b (Jun 11, 2016)

geezer said:


> I'm not sure any of us would back off on a strongly held belief just because it was unpopular. But in my case, I'd certainly be willing to qualify that belief as a matter of my personal experience and opinion, and be willing to concede that others make a legitimate point as well



What would you suggest if you believe others are not making a legitimate point and are in fact talking nonsense? 

All belief is a product of personal experience, although things that can be objectively evaluated are on much stronger ground than those based on just a hunch. I wouldn't have thought there would be a need to type this out every time an opinion is presented though? Do you slip this caveat into real life conversation every few words? I don't. 

My own rules for the forum would be these: Grow a thicker skin. Don't take it personally, stop being an emotional crybully. Don't allow pride to blind you. Don't be dishonest in your argument when you realise you are wrong. Don't be an intolerant relativist (i.e. don't say everything is equally valid but then lose the plot when someone disagrees that everything is equally valid).


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## Gerry Seymour (Jun 11, 2016)

geezer said:


> I'm not sure any of us would back off on a strongly held belief just because it was unpopular. But in my case, I'd certainly be willing to qualify that belief as a matter of my personal experience and opinion, and be willing to concede that others make a legitimate point as well. _A little humility goes a long way in terms of smoothing things out!
> 
> So..._
> #4. Have a little humility and acknowledge that others may have a valid point.


I read the post as suggesting that we find another way to say something if it receives too much opposition. I second that (if, indeed, that was the intended meaning). Sometimes, it's the exact statement that is generating opposition, rather than the concept proposed.


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## Gerry Seymour (Jun 11, 2016)

drop bear said:


> The original idea was.  You throw an idea out there.  People throw their own out there sometimes it works sometimes you get smashed in the face.  Either way you learn sometimes.
> 
> Being nice and agreeing with people all the time makes your brain rot.


As does purposely opposing others. I agree with the concept of throwing an idea out there to see how others support it or pull it apart. I do that a bit, myself. I'll have an idea that seems good, but needs vetting - I can depend upon some people in this forum (you, for instance) to tell me exactly what they think of it.


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## Gerry Seymour (Jun 11, 2016)

Phobius said:


> Instead of sparring, you mean you approach it as a conversation? Just throwing another word out there for our fighting enthusiasts.
> 
> EDIT: Just realized I did not throw that word out there, it was already painted on walls and ceilings. This is what blindness gets you.


This is a good point. For some of us (like me), sparring means "trying to win". So, the forum is not a place for sparring (by my definition), but a great place for conversation and debate.


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## Gerry Seymour (Jun 11, 2016)

Steve said:


> I think being nice should always be the goal.  Some people equate disagreement with rudeness or meanness.  I think it's neither.  I think you can disagree and still be nice.  Conversely, disagreeing with you doesn't equate to being mean to you.


Agreed. And agreeing also doesn't equate to being nice.


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## drop bear (Jun 11, 2016)

guy b said:


> What would you suggest if you believe others are not making a legitimate point and are in fact talking nonsense?
> 
> All belief is a product of personal experience, although things that can be objectively evaluated are on much stronger ground than those based on just a hunch. I wouldn't have thought there would be a need to type this out every time an opinion is presented though? Do you slip this caveat into real life conversation every few words? I don't.
> 
> My own rules for the forum would be these: Grow a thicker skin. Don't take it personally, stop being an emotional crybully. Don't allow pride to blind you. Don't be dishonest in your argument when you realise you are wrong. Don't be an intolerant relativist (i.e. don't say everything is equally valid but then lose the plot when someone disagrees that everything is equally valid).



Liked that mostly for the crybully.


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## drop bear (Jun 11, 2016)

gpseymour said:


> As does purposely opposing others. I agree with the concept of throwing an idea out there to see how others support it or pull it apart. I do that a bit, myself. I'll have an idea that seems good, but needs vetting - I can depend upon some people in this forum (you, for instance) to tell me exactly what they think of it.



I also try not to side with teams either. So even if i generally agree with someone. I will post when i don't. 

I


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## Nobody Important (Jun 11, 2016)

guy b said:


> What would you suggest if you believe others are not making a legitimate point and are in fact talking nonsense?
> 
> All belief is a product of personal experience, although things that can be objectively evaluated are on much stronger ground than those based on just a hunch. I wouldn't have thought there would be a need to type this out every time an opinion is presented though? Do you slip this caveat into real life conversation every few words? I don't.
> 
> My own rules for the forum would be these: Grow a thicker skin. Don't take it personally, stop being an emotional crybully. Don't allow pride to blind you. Don't be dishonest in your argument when you realise you are wrong. Don't be an intolerant relativist (i.e. don't say everything is equally valid but then lose the plot when someone disagrees that everything is equally valid).


Lol! Perhaps you should heed your own advice.
All skate, ladies only, lol.


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## Steve (Jun 11, 2016)

drop bear said:


> I also try not to side with teams either. So even if i generally agree with someone. I will post when i don't.
> 
> I


I call that wearing a jersey.   We have a lot of that around here.   People will agree with someone who's on their team and disagree with someone else who isn't, even when they're saying the same thing.


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## geezer (Jun 11, 2016)

True enough. Sometimes guys on "the opposite team" make good sense. But you can feel a little reluctant about agreeing since you know that _both sides _will object. Those on the "other side" will insist that you _can't _really agree since you are the antagonist, and as such you can't really grasp what they are saying. Those on your "same side" see you as either a traitor or as pandering. 

It can really be hilarious. At least to my warped sense of humor ...so I go ahead and post anyway!


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## Kung Fu Wang (Jun 11, 2016)

guy b said:


> Grow a thicker skin.


When GM Han Chin-Tang used a samurai sword to demonstrate how to cut on his own face without harm, my teacher said to him, "You must have thick skin". IMO, the term "thick skin" can also mean "shameless" which is not a good term. I don't think we need "thick skin" to get involve with online discussion. 

In a Judo forum, someone said, "You don't even train Judo. Nobody care about your opinion. Why are you still hanging around here?" I left that forum right away and never went back. I just don't have "thick skin".


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## Kung Fu Wang (Jun 11, 2016)

Steve said:


> People will agree with someone who's on their team and disagree with someone else who isn't, even when they're saying the same thing.


That's the difference between "friend" and "stranger".

When

- your friend punches on your shoulder, you will smile.
- a stranger punches on your shoulder, you will punch back.


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## KPM (Jun 12, 2016)

guy b said:


> What would you suggest if you believe others are not making a legitimate point and are in fact talking nonsense?
> 
> All belief is a product of personal experience, although things that can be objectively evaluated are on much stronger ground than those based on just a hunch. I wouldn't have thought there would be a need to type this out every time an opinion is presented though? Do you slip this caveat into real life conversation every few words? I don't.
> 
> My own rules for the forum would be these: Grow a thicker skin. Don't take it personally, stop being an emotional crybully. Don't allow pride to blind you. Don't be dishonest in your argument when you realise you are wrong. Don't be an intolerant relativist (i.e. don't say everything is equally valid but then lose the plot when someone disagrees that everything is equally valid).



No.  I would say realize that people don't always share your logic.  When you have a preconceived notion of how things should be, than anyone saying something contrary to that notion may sound like they are talking "nonsense."   And acknowledge someone's point when they make a good one.  Don't just ignore it and jump to your next "gotcha" statement.  That's just a general rule for polite discussion in any format. 

So my rule #xx:    Remember no one here is any other member's "Sifu."  We are all here to share and learn.  It is no one's responsibility to show anyone one else here the "true way" or to correct anyone else's mistakes.  If someone asks for explanation and information, then share it.  If you think they are doing something wrong or incorrectly and they aren't asking for you to set them straight, then let it go.  No one needs a "thicker skin" because no one should be attacking anyone else for what they do.  

My rule #xxx:  Do not make definitive statements as if they are the final truth and every other opinion is wrong.  That just invites dissent.  Its not about any kind of "relativism."  It is about polite conversation.   Again, refer to my rule #xx....no one here is the "sifu" or the "master."  We are here to discuss, not lecture.   

I've always thought forums should be approached as if you are sitting in the pub having a beer with a group of friends.  Or, as if our Wing Chun ancestors may have done, sitting in the tea house playing Ma Jong.  I am quite certain that many of the things said here with the distance of a keyboard would not be said in a friendly face to face meeting.


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## anerlich (Jun 20, 2016)

Some of my actions on other forums can be explained by reference to Thomas Jefferson: "Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions."


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## Buka (Jun 21, 2016)

What an interesting thread.


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## Gerry Seymour (Jun 23, 2016)

drop bear said:


> I also try not to side with teams either. So even if i generally agree with someone. I will post when i don't.
> 
> I


Agreed. A friend who won't tell us when we're making a mistake is no friend, at all.


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## Gerry Seymour (Jun 23, 2016)

KPM said:


> If you think they are doing something wrong or incorrectly and they aren't asking for you to set them straight, then let it go.  No one needs a "thicker skin" because no one should be attacking anyone else for what they do.



I disagree. If I think someone is wrong, I will let them know. To do otherwise (in my opinion) is to fail to be helpful to them. I simply assume they are as open as I am. I've been wrong. (Dear gods, have I been wrong!) The quicker someone helps me see that, the less time I spend being wrong. And, of course, if I respond and let them know I think they're wrong, they might actually show me where I'm wrong. Either way, at least one of us has a chance to learn something new.


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## KPM (Jun 24, 2016)

^^^^  You haven't been around in this forum much.  That is not what I was referring to.  "Setting them straight" is much different than pointing out how you think someone may be wrong, and then letting it go if they disagree or just don't see it.  Its a matter of persistence and continuing to argue a point over and over.


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## Buka (Jun 24, 2016)

Steve said:


> I call that wearing a jersey.   We have a lot of that around here.   People will agree with someone who's on their team and disagree with someone else who isn't, even when they're saying the same thing.



Good point. But, crap, I need me a team! Well, since I've recently devoted myself to Tai-chi, I want the Tai-chi team!

The rest of you guys couldn't _embrace the tiger and return to mountain_ if I spotted you a calico and a molehill. No, wait....on second thought there have been a few molehills that have gone straight Himalayas on us, hasn't there?

Oh, well.....never mind.


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## Xue Sheng (Jun 24, 2016)

Buka said:


> Good point. But, crap, I need me a team! Well, since I've recently devoted myself to Tai-chi, I want the Tai-chi team!



Team Taijiquan


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## Buka (Jun 24, 2016)

Xue Sheng said:


> Team Taijiquan



We need T-shirts. I might have to go to Walmart.


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## Steve (Jun 24, 2016)

I'm in if I can learn to repulse some monkeys.


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## Gerry Seymour (Jun 24, 2016)

KPM said:


> ^^^^  You haven't been around in this forum much.  That is not what I was referring to.  "Setting them straight" is much different than pointing out how you think someone may be wrong, and then letting it go if they disagree or just don't see it.  Its a matter of persistence and continuing to argue a point over and over.


Okay, given that definition (not the one I'd use for "setting them straight"), I agree.


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## Xue Sheng (Jun 24, 2016)

Steve said:


> I'm in if I can learn to repulse some monkeys.



That all depends on what you mean by repulse. are you talking attack or push back the monkey, or nauseate the monkey?


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## Xue Sheng (Jun 24, 2016)

Buka said:


> We need T-shirts. I might have to go to Walmart.



 It has to at least have this on it


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## Xue Sheng (Jun 24, 2016)

OK, I changed my mind, now it has to at least have this






And now I   will discontinue this post derailment, sorry


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## Steve (Jun 24, 2016)

Xue Sheng said:


> That all depends on what you mean by repulse. are you talking attack or push back the monkey, or nauseate the monkey?


Well, if we're being honest., probably a little of both.


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## Xue Sheng (Jun 24, 2016)

Steve said:


> Well, if we're being honest., probably a little of both.



YOU'RE IN!!!!!







Welcome to the dark side


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