# Teaching Kenpo to kids



## thesensei (Sep 21, 2002)

hey there...just looking for some feedback on teaching kenpo to kids.  i'm getting ready to start teaching some kids' kenpo classes.  every class i've ever taught before for kids has always been under another school, where we teach 'american karate (basically, a version of TKD).'  

i always incorporated a few kenpo SD techs, but never taught the full system to anyone but adults.  it just seems to me that a kid will not do as well remembering all the techniques involved.  any ideas??  do you teach all the techniques??  or do you shave it to the basics??  

i already have a policy that i will not promote anyone under 16 to BB, and in most circumstances, i will not allow them to advance beyond green...just wondering how you other instructors out there handle it??

thanks for the tips,
JB


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## RCastillo (Sep 21, 2002)

Follow the same route you've gone when teaching kids.:asian:


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## Kempojujutsu (Sep 21, 2002)

Nackord kenpo karate has a kids syllabus. I beleive it is about half the belt requirements for adults. The site is Nackordkarate.com I hope this helps.
Bob  :asian:


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## Kirk (Sep 21, 2002)

My instructors teach them basically taekwondo, with kenpo sets
and forms required for promotions.  They're eligible for junior 
black,  I think at 13.  Once they get their junior black, then they
start the same kenpo curriculum that the adults learn, and test 
for colored tabs after that.  Once they complete the adult yellow
requirements, they get yellow tab, and so on.  At 14 or 15 they're
allowed to start in the adult class, and once they test for the
next color, they get the adult colored belt.  One jr b.b. had up to
purple tabs on his belt.  He tested for blue after a few months,
and once he got it, he started wearing his blue belt, instead of
his junior black belt.  But this guy knew half of  the kenpo 
curriculum at that point.  When getting his jr black, he knew all
sets and form (except long 4) required for his b.b., so all he had
to learn were the techniques.  My instructor won't give a b.b. to
anyone under 18, but if this kid keeps coming, he'll for sure 
earn his really close to his 18th b-day.  And since he had such a
heavy TKD influence, his kicks are top notch, unlike  most of us
low ranking adults in class.


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## Seig (Sep 22, 2002)

What we have done is this:
We have a poster up with what is required for yelloe and orange belt.  When the kids finish a certain section, they get to pick out a colored star and stick it to the poster.  When they learn the kenpo creed they get a black piece of tape on the right side of their belt.  When they learn Universal Blocking set 1, they get another piece of Black tape.  When they learn the first 5 SDs they get a third.  When they know all 10, they get their third black stripe.  When they know all of their yellow belt sayings, they get a red strip on the other side.  At that point, I use red stripes, up to three and three until they test for yellow.  Once they get their yellow belt, I keep testing them on the other stuff and they Get red stripes for short 1 and free style.  Once they know everything for the yellow belt material, I test them for advanced yellow.  Once they have their Orange tab, we start on the orange belt material, ad infinitum til green belt.
Might work for you, might not, just another view.
:asian:


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## satans.barber (Sep 22, 2002)

I'm quite interested to know how different instructors deal with junior black belts when they're old enough to move up into the senior class...

In our school, so far we have two junior black belts who've moved up into the senior class, and they stand in the same place as the adult black belts (well, black bel_t_ at the moment!), as in higher up than me. Because they've only done the junior syllabus though and also aren't very serious about it, they're really quite poor and know very little, so it seems to me that they should rank up somewhere much lower down in the class. Having said that, they're obviously better than the lower belts, so it doesn't seem fair that they should move from the top ofthe junior class right down to the bottom of the senior one.

Diffucult to sort out really!

Ian.


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## Chiduce (Sep 27, 2002)

> _Originally posted by satans.barber _
> 
> *I'm quite interested to know how different instructors deal with junior black belts when they're old enough to move up into the senior class...
> 
> ...


 Kids and young non outwardly rebellious adults adjust pretty quickly. To themselves, they are moving up in status not necessarilly the opposite.
Sincerely, In Humility;
Chiduce!


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## Nightingale (Sep 27, 2002)

This is my personal view. I've seen it used and the system worked well. 

Personally, I believe junior belts need to look different from adult belts.  The junior belts could be the ones with the stripes down the middle.    The junior colored ranks should be the colored belts with the white stripe, and the black belt ranks should have the colored stripes...see below:

A child holding a junior black belt who hasn't learned all of the adult curriculum and is just starting the adult classes:  he should wear a black belt with a white stripe or tab and line up first in the white belt section (between the white and yellow belts).  He then needs to test for adult yellow, and wears the same style belt but with a yellow stripe down the center and stands at the head of the yellow belt section, indicating that he has more knowledge than the usual yellow belt, but doesn't know everything that the orange belts know...

The child will continue to maintain his junior black belt standing, and given all the respect that junior black belts receive in the school, but still works his way up the adult ranks.

If the child changes between child and adult classes before they are blackbelt, they start out wearing a white belt with colored tabs of the rank they were in children's class, and line up in front of the regular white belts, and by rank of tabs.

This is why I think that the children and adult ranks need to look different:

When I was 14 and my brother was 12, we were both taking kenpo, and both starting out as white belts (I'd had some kenpo and some TKD beforehand, but not enough to earn Orange, which was the first rank at that school).  My bro, being 12, was placed in kids class, while I was placed with the adults.  He got his orange belt in the kids curriculum, which only had 12 techniques.  I had to learn all 25, so naturally, it took me longer.  He turned 13, so he came into the adult class. I was still a white belt, and frankly, I was pissed, because I knew more techniques than he did, and I could execute them better than he could, but he was standing in front of me wearing a higher rank because he had earned it in childrens class.  To a kid, that's a major affront!  If his belt had looked different than the one I was working for, and if he was made to go back and re-learn what he had missed, I wouldn't have been upset about it.  As it was, I just decided to get my tail in gear, and made purple before he did.  I got two ranks in the time it took him to get one... he never did get purple. He quit because he didn't like his sister to outrank him!  I tried to explain to him that if he quit, it would mean that I would ALWAYS outrank him, but he just didn't get it. LOL.

Although adults can understand the purpose behind a children's curriculum, other children in the family may not, and that can cause problems both in your school and between the children at home.  If there is an obvious difference between the ranks, the children are less likely to envy the sibling who appears to have the "easier" curriculum.

just my $0.02.

-N-


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## warrior.mama (Sep 27, 2002)

Sir

I think teaching kenpo to kids is great.  I believe that kids (at least over the age of 6) can learn all of the techniques that adults can learn.  They just learn a bit differently.

One major key, in my experience, is to use language that kids understand and to really pay attention to whether or not they get what you are explaining or demonstrating.  Clear concise instruction works.

Another key is to build a bond with young students.  If kids know someone cares about them, they will work hard.

My daughter and I started kenpo when she was just under 6 and have now been involved for 6+ years.  Her instructor was very good at demonstrating and explaining movement, concepts and principles in language my daughter could understand.  

Best wishes in your teaching.
Oss
Judy (warrior.mama)


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## rmcrobertson (Sep 27, 2002)

Somehow, I get the feeling that this discussion says a lot more about us than it says about kids.


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## Sigung86 (Sep 27, 2002)

> _Originally posted by rmcrobertson _
> 
> *Somehow, I get the feeling that this discussion says a lot more about us than it says about kids. *



Ahem ... Amen! :lol:

Dan


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## warrior.mama (Sep 27, 2002)

I think you may be right.

And I do think kids can learn kenpo.  In fact, I think they are darn good teachers when we allow them to be.

Oss


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## WhiteTiger (Dec 3, 2002)

I have had similar experience teaching kids, and I have to admit I really don't like to teach kids, too much like babysitting.  Tracy's has a seperate youth program, starting with 10 techniques at yellow belt and increases by 2 techniques each belt (orange 12, purple 14 ect.), with one Kata for each belt.  Recommended for kids that begin from 8 to 11 years old.  However upon graduating to black belt they are awarded just that Black Belt NOT Shodan.  To attain their Shodan rank they must be 18 and learn the remainder of the adult program.


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## Kenpomachine (Dec 4, 2002)

In the last federation I beloged to, we did as white tiger said: a junior bb is just a plain BB and when s/he goes to the adult level, he has to test again for the first degree.

By the way, I got my purple in a kids class,  then stopped training for a lot of years and then came back to training. I ask the instructor whether I should wear a purple belt or get back to white, and he told me my degree was my degree... and almost all I can remeber by then was short form one and the salutation.


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## True2Kenpo (Dec 4, 2002)

Fellow Kenpoists,

I feel, as many of you stated, that there should be a different ranking system as far as kids are concerned in Kenpo.

I think the many types of belts that some martial arts suppliers are coming out with are a great idea, such as the belts with stripes down the middle or the half and half belts.

I just recently drew up a kids curriculum that I feel I might use one-day in my school and I broke the belt levels into two.

So instead of white, yellow, orange, and so on...  I used the half and half belts.  So now kid students will advance from white belt to wht./yellow, then to yellow, then to yellow/orange, and so on...

For each level I just split the techniques in half...  so for each level a student will learn 12 techs, rather than 24.

I also set a time limit that each student must hold their rank for a minumum of lets say three months or whatever limit that I feel is acceptable without discouraging students.

Though I see that many "junior black" programs are very successful, I think that many students that achieve this still feel they are all-out BLACK BELTS!

I feel that we should reserve the rank of Black, any Black, for deserving students that are mature and responsible for what that rank entails.  

And I think the key to holding students off of advancing so quickly is too offer as many other programs to children as possible that will keep them interested...  whether this be a Demo Team, SWAT Team, Competition Team, and so on...

Just my thoughts...  but in any case, great post!

Respectfully,
Joshua Ryer
UPK Pittsburgh

www.unitedparkerskenpo.com


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## WhiteTiger (Dec 4, 2002)

True2

I must say, I strongly disagree with your post.  Half belts, demo/swat teams, minimum time in rank, it all curiously smells like a McDojo to me.  I agree you can be very successful with these types of programs, that is why there are so many of them, but if you remove the difficulty and the callange to stick to it, whats the point other than to generate revenue.  I speak from expierience.  I watched a serious TKD studio transform into a McDojo in only a few months, and it all started with split the belts so the kids can feel like they are making faster progress.  Now the owner has a new Corvette every 2 years, but he teaches JUNK.  I was asked not to teach there any more because I would not promote students.

It is a slippery slope the best course is not to start down it.


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## True2Kenpo (Dec 4, 2002)

White Tiger,

I understand your concern and I have also experienced the same type of school...  but in reality I do think it depends on the instructor or instructors and how they are teaching.  I was a student under Mr. Greg Silva in Coral Springs, FL for about a year and at that time he had about 900 students in the school.  The school was hoppen all of the time and they offered a lot of programs to children in addition to great instruction.  Of course these programs create revenue for the school, but they also offered many benefits to the children, parents, and community.

Kids would have after school classes and parent's could pick them up after work, movie nights, sleep overs... and so on.  It gave the students more than just training, but a way to meet friends.  It gave me something I want to spend the rest of my life doing...  teaching the martial arts!

I am 20 years old... and to be frank, I receieved my Black at an early age.  Each time I walk into a room, people look at me and I am sure many feel I should not have the rank I have...  but I know in my heart and my mind that I have done my best to earn it and that each day I will try my best to improve to further my study...  On the otherhand, I have taught children that have gotten very discouraged because their parents push them and want them to get more rank, or the child feels they have not improved at all...  My goal, whether teaching a child or an adult is to keep them in the Art and show them what it can do for them.  It has given alot of meaning to my life and I feel it can to many others.

In my curriculm, I at no time took any requirements away, they just get a belt when they learn half and then they learn the other half.  For instance...  say they were a yellow belt, they would learn the first 12 technique requirements for the Parker Orange Requirements based on the 24 level and they would get a half and half belt...  or even they could just get a stripe.  But it is some sign of improvement.  They will then learn the other 12 for Orange and finally be ready to test for their full Orange Belt.

My dream is to open a Kenpo school, and I hope a very successful school.  But I feel one needs to draw the line because it is a business and I do plan to make it my livelihood.  

I respect all of those instructors that teach because they love it and do not charge.  I do that right now with all of my students here in Pittsburgh.  But however things turn out, successful school or not...  I love Kenpo!

In any case, I wish you well.  Good journey sir!

Respectfully,
Joshua Ryer
UPK Pittsburgh


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## Kenpomachine (Dec 4, 2002)

> _Originally posted by True2Kenpo _
> 
> *
> Kids would have after school classes and parent's could pick them up after work, movie nights, sleep overs... and so on.  It gave the students more than just training, but a way to meet friends.  It gave me something I want to spend the rest of my life doing...  teaching the martial arts!*



Dojos are not children parkings... 



> *
> In my curriculm, I at no time took any requirements away, they just get a belt when they learn half and then they learn the other half.  For instance...  say they were a yellow belt, they would learn the first 12 technique requirements for the Parker Orange Requirements based on the 24 level and they would get a half and half belt...  or even they could just get a stripe.  But it is some sign of improvement.  They will then learn the other 12 for Orange and finally be ready to test for their full Orange Belt. *



So where does that left me? We only have 8 techniques... Does that mean that I just work the same way a blue belt does? Quality of work is quite different from quantity... and I expect a BB to have a great quality and be able to create its own techniques and investigate, not just keep adding extensions to techniques in the program. And that's as true for kids as it is for adults. 

There's some 16 years old people out there working out better than their older coounterparts.

Btw, in Spain kids always go to half belts nowadays. And it's great if they can't wait a whole year as we did before to pass an exam. So maybe it's true we're going towards Mcdojos.


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## Elfan (Dec 4, 2002)

I'm not a fan of split belts and such,  it does smell of possibly McDojo.  However, I then remembered that the best kids I have ever seen were on a split belt system.  These kids were simply awesome, "Johny go demonstrate a back fall on the tile." no problem.  I supose it does all depend on the instructor's implementation.


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## Kenpomachine (Dec 4, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Elfan _
> 
> *  I supose it does all depend on the instructor's implementation. *



Yeah. That's something most of us seemed to have forgotten, ha.

Are we going then towards Mc Instructors?:rofl:


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## jeffkyle (Dec 5, 2002)

It is possible to get kids to do anything you want them to.  You just have to know how to apply it to them at what times.  Sometimes you have to be playful, sometimes you have to be stern, sometimes you can just tell them and they will respond.  The whole fun of it is being able to experiment with it all.


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## Seig (Dec 5, 2002)

As a small school owner, i think I need to address a few things.  Number one, I hate McDojos.  Having said that we need to look at a few other things.  If you are running a business and have overhead, you have to pay for it or you no longer have a business.  There is a belt/advanced belt system within the IKKO.  I have implemented it and it works well for me.  I do not especially enjoy having parents "dump" thier kids on me, but they do pay the electric and the rent, etc...  I have no desire to become a dojo and I keep the quality of my material and instruction high.  I'm also very demanding of my students performance.  I have to work a full time job to pay my own bills and I would love to teach kenpo full time and neer have to divide my attention again.  To do that, I have to have more students.  Unfortunately, to stay in business, you have to walk a line between what you want to do and what you have to do.  Just remainn vigilent and don't make a new corvette every two years your goal.


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## Kenpomachine (Dec 5, 2002)

I really like your policies Seig. Keep up the good work.


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## Les (Dec 17, 2002)

Unlike some of you guys seem to do, I don't teach anything but Kenpo in my clubs, so the juniors learn Kenpo from day one.

In my clubs, a Junior Black Belt is the equivalent of an adult Purple with a Blue tip.

In the adult class they line up with the Purple belts (blue tip), because thats where their level of knowledge/skill is.

They wear a Black belt, with a white tip to show it is a Junior Ranking, and above the white tip they have a purple tip with a blue tip above that. (Denoting Purple rising towards Blue.

When the are promoted to blue belt, they'll have two blue tips, then a Blue and a green, then two greens, etc etc.

It's important to remember that with kids, you can't take their 'hard earned' Black Belt status away from them, as that would de-motivate them.

I spent a lot of time developing my junior syllabus, in consultation with two other Instructors, both much higher ranked than me, and I have been using it successfully for about three years now.

Les


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## Nightingale (Dec 17, 2002)

that sounds like a really good system. I like the way you've ranked things, but it sounds like an awful lot of tips... and there's just something about after a test being able to tie on a new belt.

a lot of the junior systems use the black belts with the colored stripe down the middle... you could start them with the black belt with the purple stripe, and add a blue tip, then move on to a black belt with a blue stripe, and then add a green tip, etc.


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## Les (Dec 18, 2002)

> _Originally posted by nightingale8472 _
> *that sounds like a really good system. I like the way you've ranked things, but it sounds like an awful lot of tips... and there's just something about after a test being able to tie on a new belt.
> 
> a lot of the junior systems use the black belts with the colored stripe down the middle... you could start them with the black belt with the purple stripe, and add a blue tip, then move on to a black belt with a blue stripe, and then add a green tip, etc. *



Thanks for your comments.

It's not really a lot of tips, just three, and it does mean that they can line up in the right group. After testing they receive a new belt with the next set of tips on, so they still get to tie on the new one.

I've heard about the Black belts with a coloured stripe throught the length, but we can't get them here in the UK.

Les


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## Kenpomachine (Dec 18, 2002)

I think I've seen this same system in the swedish team. They only wear one stripe, though...


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## jaykenpo (Oct 25, 2015)

So when they receive their jr BB, they then start the adult curriculum?


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