# Safest to ccw, 1911 or poly?



## Brian S (Jun 8, 2009)

Which do you think is safer and why?

I think if you ccw you should have a round in the chamber. I'm pretty ignorant on 1911's,but interested.

 Thanks!


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## Andy Moynihan (Jun 8, 2009)

I think 1911's are great guns, I do NOT think they are great *first* guns and I do not think, given more modern options, that they are great *carry* guns.

Google "Body alarm reaction" and you will understand why I'm of the school of thought that single-action-only triggers are not street safe when your life's in danger, your pulse is going thrice normal, your hands are shaking, you can't feel your fingers to know if they're on or off the trigger and you've a death grip on your gun anyway.


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## lklawson (Jun 8, 2009)

The best gun for CCW is one that you are comfortable with, accurate, reliable, and will actually carry.  If, for you, that means 1911, then the best is a 1911.  If, instead, it means a Glock, Kel-Tec, or a J-Frame, then *that *is the best.

All this rigmarole over "best this" and "best that" is baloney.   A gun that goes "bang" every time you pull the trigger and will hit what you're aiming at is what you want.

Yes, we all have our personal preferences and that exactly what they are: PERSONAL.  Make your gun your personal weapon.  I'll stop before I ramble any more.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## Grenadier (Jun 8, 2009)

Any well-made weapon, regardless of whether it's a Glock, Springfield 1911, etc., is going to be safe to carry.  Today's quality handguns incorporate multiple safety features, that basically prevent the gun from going off unless someone sticks his finger in the trigger guard, and pulls the trigger.  

The Miami PD did some testing with a Glock 17, with a loaded chamber.  They chucked the pistol against a steel-reinforced concrete wall multiple times, at 40+ MPH, and other than some scrapes, dings, and the broken plastic sights, the gun was perfectly fine, and never discharged.  

I've seen some drop tests for Springfield 1911 pistols, and even in cocked and locked mode, they never discharged.  

If you want to carry your 1911 with a round in the chamber, it's perfectly safe to do so, as long as you have a well-made 1911.  How you want to carry it is up to your personal preferences.  Do you find having to manually cock the hammer (safety off while holstered) easier, or do you prefer to carry it cocked and locked?  Either way, with good awareness and training, it's quite safe to do so, as long as you have a decent holster.  

I prefer Glocks, of course, but I would feel perfectly fine carrying a 1911.


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## searcher (Jun 8, 2009)

Some pretty good responses so far.

I have CCH several different guns and I always go back to my Glock 17.   I have carried Kimber, several Glocks, one Kahr, 2 smiths, and a Taurus.

Andy said it best, with todays options I would not go with a 1911.   I have been around enough of them to want a gun that goes boom every time I pull the trigger.    And I have not been able to make that happen with a 1911.

Not to mention that for the average price of a 1911, I get almost 2 Glocks.


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## jks9199 (Jun 8, 2009)

Glocks are great defensive guns.  If you can make one fire without something pressing the trigger (and without substantial modification) -- I'll eat the gun.  I'm that confident you won't succeed.  And they're incredibly tolerant of abuse while still shooting.  (Google "Glock Torture Test" and you'll see what I mean.)

But they do require the discipline to keep your finger off the trigger except when you intend it to shoot.


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## harold (Jun 8, 2009)

Carry what you are accustomed to and have trained with. I personally would not and do not carry anything except a d.a.o. pistol.


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## Deaf Smith (Jun 8, 2009)

Brian S said:


> Which do you think is safer and why?
> 
> I think if you ccw you should have a round in the chamber. I'm pretty ignorant on 1911's,but interested.
> 
> Thanks!


 
The real safety is inbetween your ears. If you are not safe there in your gun handling, it does not matter what mechanical safety your gun has.

Brian, I've shot 1911s, P35s, Smith 39s, revolvers, and Glocks in very fast drawing and moveing matches in IPSC and IDPA for well over 20 years. Most of the time from concealment. Never ever had a problem with any of them.

All are quite safe if handled safely.

And as for chamber loaded, it not only is safe, but highly desireable in concealed carry (CCW.) You can't guarantee you will have both hands to rack the slide nor can you guarantee you will rack the slide all the way back either in a tense moment! Therefore if you carry a simi-auto, chamber loaded is the way to go. And if you fear chamber loaded..... get a revolver.

Deaf


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## BLACK LION (Jun 8, 2009)

I have had both 1911  and xd and I feel much safer around my xd.  Of course all the safety features in the world does not negate the safety between your ears and your finger.


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## sgtmac_46 (Jun 12, 2009)

Brian S said:


> Which do you think is safer and why?
> 
> I think if you ccw you should have a round in the chamber. I'm pretty ignorant on 1911's,but interested.
> 
> Thanks!


The 1911 is an excellent platform......but it's not for everyone.

As to the safety issues, there really aren't any.  Some folks get hot and bothered about 'Cocked-and-Locked', but it's much ado about nothing.  The 1911 in the C&L position has two external safeties in place.

The real issue with the 1911 is the training issue.  If one carries a 1911 one must train with a 1911........one must train the response of throwing the safety off when drawing or problems can ensue.

Again, 1911 or not 1911 is personal preference.....but if a 1911 is chosen one must learn it's quirks and adjust training accordingly.


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## BLACK LION (Jun 12, 2009)

I had no safety issues with my 1911. I loved the trigger pull and the rigidity of an all metal platform. Mine had no MIM  and was built from all wilson combat parts. It felt great in the hand and the thumb safety afforded me a nice high and tight grip.  Disassembly was more of an issue especially with the 2 pc full length guide rod as I had to have and allen wrench handy to loosen it. I liked the fact that palm safety would not work if its depress halfarsed.    What I did not like was its tighter tolernaces and the lack of a loaded chamber indicator. If the gun was dry the slide would stick...   when lubed it ran smooth as butter.  

I sold it in favor of my XD but thats not to say that I wouldnt purchase on again and use it for carry.   I have my eye on the Dan Wesson line


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## sgtmac_46 (Jun 12, 2009)

BLACK LION said:


> I had no safety issues with my 1911. I loved the trigger pull and the rigidity of an all metal platform. Mine had no MIM  and was built from all wilson combat parts. It felt great in the hand and the thumb safety afforded me a nice high and tight grip.  Disassembly was more of an issue especially with the 2 pc full length guide rod as I had to have and allen wrench handy to loosen it. I liked the fact that palm safety would not work if its depress halfarsed.    What I did not like was its tighter tolernaces and the lack of a loaded chamber indicator. If the gun was dry the slide would stick...   when lubed it ran smooth as butter.
> 
> I sold it in favor of my XD but thats not to say that I wouldnt purchase on again and use it for carry.   I have my eye on the Dan Wesson line



Some good points.......the 1911 is best described as an aficionado's gun......if you love the 1911 you can make it work better than any gun.......but it's a labor of love as more is involved in it.

If what one wants is a no-frills instrument of self-defense that can be relatively forgotten about until needed.......get a GLOCK or an XD.


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## UpeoWaMacho (Jun 14, 2009)

As others have said--it's all about practice and what you're comfortable with.  I've carried my Dan Wesson CBOB, a Glock 27, Glock 30, S&W M&P40, S&W M&P40c, S&W M&P Pro (for IDPA), and my little Kel-Tec P-3AT.  They all worked for me.  Luckily, I've never had to go through the ultimate test, but I've practiced drawing and firing with all.  Go with what works for you.


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## Jack Meower (Jun 14, 2009)

BLACK LION said:


> I had no safety issues with my 1911. I loved the trigger pull and the rigidity of an all metal platform. Mine had no MIM  and was built from all wilson combat parts. It felt great in the hand and the thumb safety afforded me a nice high and tight grip.  Disassembly was more of an issue especially with the 2 pc full length guide rod as I had to have and allen wrench handy to loosen it. I liked the fact that palm safety would not work if its depress halfarsed.    What I did not like was its tighter tolernaces and the lack of a loaded chamber indicator. If the gun was dry the slide would stick...   when lubed it ran smooth as butter.
> 
> I sold it in favor of my XD but thats not to say that I wouldnt purchase on again and use it for carry.   I have my eye on the Dan Wesson line



I recently took my Ohio CCW class with my Glock 27.  I've shot it quite a bit and am comfortable with it.  Originally I wanted to carry a gun with a manual safety of some sort, but I have become comfortable with the 27.  

Anyway, I replied to your post because I also want a Dan Wesson.  Specifically a CBOB.  In 10mm if I could afford to shoot it, but probably in 45.  

I don't know if it would unseat my Glock 27 for carry, certainly not without substantial practice anyway, but I really love that gun.


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## UpeoWaMacho (Jun 14, 2009)

My CBOB is in .45, and it is one sweet shooter.  I have three other 10mms, but alas, none in the 1911 platform.  For carry, it feels thinner than the G27, but ultimately, I go with platforms that can hold more rounds (well, other than when only the Kel-Tec will work....).  I find myself carrying the full-size S&W M&P40 most often, with the Kel-Tec as a BUG.


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## Jack Meower (Jun 15, 2009)

UpeoWaMacho said:


> My CBOB is in .45, and it is one sweet shooter.  I have three other 10mms, but alas, none in the 1911 platform.  For carry, it feels thinner than the G27, but ultimately, I go with platforms that can hold more rounds (well, other than when only the Kel-Tec will work....).  I find myself carrying the full-size S&W M&P40 most often, with the Kel-Tec as a BUG.



I've heard that again and again about the CBOBs, which makes me want one even more.  

I have a Glock 20.  That is just one of the coolest handguns made, IMHO.  15+1 rounds of 10mm is very impressive indeed.  If only I could afford 10mm ammo...

I almost got an M&P when I got my Glock 27.  I'm very happy with the 27, but I'm sure I'd have liked the M&P too.


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## Frostbite (Jul 15, 2009)

Jack Meower said:


> I've heard that again and again about the CBOBs, which makes me want one even more.
> 
> I have a Glock 20.  That is just one of the coolest handguns made, IMHO.  15+1 rounds of 10mm is very impressive indeed.  If only I could afford 10mm ammo...
> 
> I almost got an M&P when I got my Glock 27.  I'm very happy with the 27, but I'm sure I'd have liked the M&P too.



I've had a G27 for about a year now and I just picked up a M&P9c last week.  I plan on shooting them side-by-side this weekend, so I'm curious to see how the M&P stacks up.  Granted, it's a different caliber but the M&P40c is the same frame so I'd expect it to shoot more or less the same.

Honestly, I really want to like Glocks.  I own a G20 and a G27.  I'm just a terrible shot with them.  I'm still trying to work out the kinks but as it is now, I'm really inconsistent with them.


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## Carol (Jul 15, 2009)

Frostbite said:


> Honestly, I really want to like Glocks.  I own a G20 and a G27.  I'm just a terrible shot with them.  I'm still trying to work out the kinks but as it is now, I'm really inconsistent with them.



Personally I found the key to shooting well with a Glock is getting a really good grip.  The long trigger pull is enough for me to throw my aim off if I don't have good mechanics.

Next time you're at the range, try focusing on a grip that will keep the gun steady as you squeeze the trigger.  Once you have a good sense of how that grip feels, you can practice dry-firing at home or in your yard with a snapcap or some sort of suitable dummy round loaded in the chamber.

Personally I find that marksmanship isn't really any different than other martial art.  Good body mechanics matter.  Practice matters.  Building good habits matter.   And its addicting as heck


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## Frostbite (Jul 15, 2009)

Well, that's the thing.  My grip doesn't feel that different from other guns that I do shoot well.  I think in my particular case, I'm giving it too much trigger finger.  From what I've heard from other people, you should just be using the pad of the tip of your finger on a Glock.  I tend to use a little more finger on my other guns.

We'll see though.  I'm taking my G27 out again this weekend with a new perspective on what I might be doing wrong, so hopefully I can figure things out.


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## Guardian (Jul 16, 2009)

As it's been said here several times.  The safety of a weapon is up to the individual carrying or using it.  Get to know your weapon.  I personally like the old ways, so I perfer my Ruger 357, easy use and I am very comfortable with it.


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## PatMunk (Jul 16, 2009)

Frostbite ... I taught firearm qualification for a state law enforcement academy for several years and what we found that helped was when practicing ... instead squeezing the trigger ... think about pressing the trigger with the Glock and Pull the trigger with others ... if you squeeze the trigger you might not just squeeze the trigger but the whole hand which will cause problems with the sight alignment and hitting the target ... The only thing you want to move is the trigger finger while firing ....

Remember ... good stance, proper grip, good breath control, sight picture, sight alignment and press the trigger .. you should see some improvement with a little practice.

hope this helps


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## Frostbite (Jul 16, 2009)

Thanks Pat!  I'll definitely try to keep that in mind this weekend.  As I said, I really want to like Glocks.  Not much to look at but so reliable and so many great sizes/calibers to choose from.

Although, if H&K ever made a 10mm, I'd be all over that.


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## Frostbite (Jul 20, 2009)

Well, I adjusted my grip and my trigger pull on my Glock and while I was shooting a bit left, the grouping was pretty tight, so overall I'm happy.  Thanks to everyone who offered some advice.


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## bamarammin87 (Aug 31, 2009)

You can see what I carry. (Yes I'm also starting a workout plan to lose that belly)










You just have to be familiar with the gun and be DANG sure you get used to flipping that safety off. Shoot thumbs forward (as you should already) and just rest your right hand thumb on the safety, so you'll automatically flip it off. It's "safer" than alot of other guns to carry. Nothing at all dangerous about it, heck it's got a grip safety PLUS a nicely designed thumb safety (which was added later, it wasn't on the original 1911 JMB designed, because it's not needed)


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## bamarammin87 (Aug 31, 2009)

Deaf Smith said:


> The real safety is inbetween your ears. If you are not safe there in your gun handling, it does not matter what mechanical safety your gun has.
> 
> Brian, I've shot 1911s, P35s, Smith 39s, revolvers, and Glocks in very fast drawing and moveing matches in IPSC and IDPA for well over 20 years. Most of the time from concealment. Never ever had a problem with any of them.
> 
> ...


  Good post. What good is a gun that isn't loaded?


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## bamarammin87 (Aug 31, 2009)

BLACK LION said:


> I had no safety issues with my 1911. I loved the trigger pull and the rigidity of an all metal platform. Mine had no MIM  and was built from all wilson combat parts. It felt great in the hand and the thumb safety afforded me a nice high and tight grip.  Disassembly was more of an issue especially with the 2 pc full length guide rod as I had to have and allen wrench handy to loosen it. I liked the fact that palm safety would not work if its depress halfarsed.    What I did not like was its tighter tolernaces and the lack of a loaded chamber indicator. If the gun was dry the slide would stick...   when lubed it ran smooth as butter.
> 
> I sold it in favor of my XD but thats not to say that I wouldnt purchase on again and use it for carry.   I have my eye on the Dan Wesson line


 
I see you're eyeing dan wessons. I LOVE mine. It's a pm-7 in 10mm. Pm-10. It's SUPER accurate, about 5 times more accurate than I can shoot it. They are built using quality steel, no MIM crap on there, mainly ed brown parts, and DW tool steel parts. It is by far the best 1911 in that price range. NO comparison to a kimber. The fit on them is amazingly tight, and mine has functioned perfectly. I would highly recommend a dan wesson.


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## Kembudo-Kai Kempoka (Sep 1, 2009)

Reading the above posts, no one seemed to address capacity. My CCW choice is my Paraordnance .45 1911 frame with Colt Combat Commander slide -- hi-cap. I have no problems deploying the critter while addressing the safety, and know I'll have the ordnance to trade for a bit. 

Hate the idea of running out -- picture Tweety in a Sylvestre cartoon saying, "awww....no mo' boowits." If I'm going to wet myself, I'm going to be well prepared for it.

D.


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## bamarammin87 (Sep 1, 2009)

Kembudo-Kai Kempoka said:


> Reading the above posts, no one seemed to address capacity. My CCW choice is my Paraordnance .45 1911 frame with Colt Combat Commander slide -- hi-cap. I have no problems deploying the critter while addressing the safety, and know I'll have the ordnance to trade for a bit.
> 
> Hate the idea of running out -- picture Tweety in a Sylvestre cartoon saying, "awww....no mo' boowits." If I'm going to wet myself, I'm going to be well prepared for it.
> 
> D.



Yeah....us 1911 guys ain't got as much as the plastic wonders do...but that's the reason I carry a spare mag!


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## Grenadier (Sep 2, 2009)

bamarammin87 said:


> Yeah....us 1911 guys ain't got as much as the plastic wonders do...but that's the reason I carry a spare mag!


 
Have you tried Virgil Tripp's Cobra mags yet?  He now has 10 rounds available...


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## bamarammin87 (Sep 2, 2009)

Grenadier said:


> Have you tried Virgil Tripp's Cobra mags yet?  He now has 10 rounds available...


haven't tried 'em yet...got a metalform 9 round mag, and 2 DW mags. I'll have to check that out. :shooter:


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## Hudson69 (Sep 3, 2009)

This is a personal choice but if you are going to go through the time and effort to carry concealed (legally of course) you should probably have a round in the chamber.

1911's are good guns because even locked and cocked there is a grip safety and you can still engage the frame safety lever for an additional step that only requires a thumb movement.

The only time I would not have a round in the chamber is if I carried a striker fired weapon that only has a trigger safety.  The only reason I say this is because trigger safeties are not that safe and carried a loaded, cocked firearm inside your pants or even in a pancake holster is too much chance of a accidental discharge in waiting.  

I think Glock and S&W make great guns like this but they are best used by police and sheriffs who keep them in a solid holster out from the body slightly, everyday concealed carry with these typses of weapons are much more risky.  If you really want a striker fired, locked and cocked weapon that is a polymer then go with the Springfield XD series, they offer safeties now and have a grip safety like the 1911's so ADs are much less likely.

Before you decide shoot a lot of different guns, I tend to carry a steel snub nosed .357 magnum or a full size S&W TSW9 (dependant upon weather, situation and how I feel) in the everyday but for camping/hiking/fishing it is the TSW9 (with +P+) or a hand cannon like a .44 mag revolver.

1911's are heavy while you can get a light weight .380, 9mm, .38 or .357 that will do the job and then some. (dont rule out wheel guns unless you are set on an auto and a .45).


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## Grenadier (Sep 3, 2009)

Hudson69 said:


> The only time I would not have a round in the chamber is if I carried a striker fired weapon that only has a trigger safety. The only reason I say this is because trigger safeties are not that safe and carried a loaded, cocked firearm inside your pants or even in a pancake holster is too much chance of a accidental discharge in waiting.


 
Many here would disagree.  

If someone carries a Glock with a good quality holster that covers the trigger guard, there is simply no way that the gun can accidentally discharge.  As long as someone uses the most important safety (the one between the ears), and keeps his finger out of the trigger guard until ready to fire, then it's perfectly safe.  

If someone cannot exercise enough discipline to keep the finger out of the trigger guard until ready to fire, then I wouldn't be too keen on his ability to remember to engage a manual safety.  

Glocks will not discharge, unless someone physically pulls the trigger.  The Miami PD put a chambered Glock 17 in a shotgun clay chucker, and threw the loaded gun at a steel-reinforced concrete wall multiple times.  Not once did it go off.


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## bamarammin87 (Sep 3, 2009)

Grenadier said:


> Many here would disagree.
> 
> If someone carries a Glock with a good quality holster that covers the trigger guard, there is simply no way that the gun can accidentally discharge.  As long as someone uses the most important safety (the one between the ears), and keeps his finger out of the trigger guard until ready to fire, then it's perfectly safe.
> 
> ...


Glock's have a internal safety, now to mention the safety physically on the trigger. If you are responsible, they are excellent guns. I love my 1911 but I love glocks too. Looking to get a g20 or 29 sometime in the near future. Very safe guns, just don't "mexican carry" without a holster.


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## jks9199 (Sep 4, 2009)

As others have said, the Glock SafeAction design is all but impossible to make fire unless something presses the trigger.  I suppose if you try hard enough, you could do it... but just about every AD with a Glock I'm aware of has involved either a finger or other object inside the trigger guard.


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## harold (Sep 4, 2009)

lklawson said:


> The best gun for CCW is one that you are comfortable with, accurate, reliable, and will actually carry. If, for you, that means 1911, then the best is a 1911. If, instead, it means a Glock, Kel-Tec, or a J-Frame, then *that *is the best.
> 
> All this rigmarole over "best this" and "best that" is baloney. A gun that goes "bang" every time you pull the trigger and will hit what you're aiming at is what you want.
> 
> ...


 
That is almost word for word what I tell my handgun students. Well said sir.


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## K831 (Sep 5, 2009)

Grenadier said:


> If you want to carry your 1911 with a round in the chamber, it's perfectly safe to do so, as long as you have a well-made 1911.


A well made handgun is key, but people often overlook the importance of a well made holster _that is well matched to your carry piece and its design and safety features. _Too often I see people carrying a well made handgun with a round chambered, in a holster that does not offer enough stability, retention, does not protect the trigger enough or is too soft to guarantee protection etc. Of course, these issues also need to be addressed with training regarding the proper draw and re-holster. 




jks9199 said:


> But they do require the discipline to keep your finger off the trigger except when you intend it to shoot.


Don't they all?  




Deaf Smith said:


> if you fear chamber loaded..... get a revolver.


 

Agreed, it seems silly to carry concealed without a round chambered.


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## Grenadier (Sep 6, 2009)

K831 said:


> A well made handgun is key, but people often overlook the importance of a well made holster _that is well matched to your carry piece and its design and safety features. _Too often I see people carrying a well made handgun with a round chambered, in a holster that does not offer enough stability, retention, does not protect the trigger enough or is too soft to guarantee protection etc. Of course, these issues also need to be addressed with training regarding the proper draw and re-holster.


 
No kidding.  I've lost count of the number of people who spend 500 dollars for a new Glock pistol, or even 700 dollars for a new HK, but decide to go cheap with the holsters, buying some Uncle Mike's Sidekick ballistic nylon holster.  

The sad thing is, that people are going to throw away that holster, and will have wasted 10-20 bucks, when they could have had a nicer leather holster from a decent manufacturer (Desantis, Galco, etc), for 40-50 bucks in the first place.  

Even the premium holsters, such as Mitch Rosen, Milt Sparks, etc., aren't too expensive.  The Rosen Gunleather company has the "express" line which still offers an excellent product for 75 bucks.


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## bamarammin87 (Sep 6, 2009)

Grenadier said:


> No kidding.  I've lost count of the number of people who spend 500 dollars for a new Glock pistol, or even 700 dollars for a new HK, but decide to go cheap with the holsters, buying some Uncle Mike's Sidekick ballistic nylon holster.
> 
> The sad thing is, that people are going to throw away that holster, and will have wasted 10-20 bucks, when they could have had a nicer leather holster from a decent manufacturer (Desantis, Galco, etc), for 40-50 bucks in the first place.
> 
> Even the premium holsters, such as Mitch Rosen, Milt Sparks, etc., aren't too expensive.  The Rosen Gunleather company has the "express" line which still offers an excellent product for 75 bucks.



You speak the truth. Guns won't carry worth a crap in a junky holster most of the time. They're uncomfortable, sometimes unsafe, and don't conceal well. That's why I bought a covert IWB from desbiens for 90 dollars: http://desbiensgunleather.com/iwb.html and I can conceal my full size 1911 in t-shirts or whatever I want to wear. :jediduel:


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## Hudson69 (Sep 8, 2009)

Grenadier said:


> Many here would disagree.
> 
> If someone carries a Glock with a good quality holster that covers the trigger guard, there is simply no way that the gun can accidentally discharge.  As long as someone uses the most important safety (the one between the ears), and keeps his finger out of the trigger guard until ready to fire, then it's perfectly safe.
> 
> ...


I agree, a good holster makes a difference, and I never said that a Glock or similar would easily generate an AD and yes, keep your finger off the trigger until your are ready to shoot but I was just thinking more along the line of a novice or the careless who take it out and leave it on a table or cabinet (etc...) and someone who is interested in guns but doesn't know them cranking off a round.  Striker fired guns (I carry one at work, an M&P9) are combat guns and are great LE tools but for off duty I use something with a real safety because it is just one more step someone has to take to make it work.  For this reason, unless you need to carry it for work or something else I would not choose it (besides if you get a second chance on the round with a DA pistol you wont with a striker fired gun).


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## bamarammin87 (Sep 9, 2009)

Hudson69 said:


> but for off duty I use something with a real safety because it is just one more step someone has to take to make it work.



One a little more time to get shot/stabbed/slashed/killed, especially if you forget the safety and just start squeezing on the hammer. I carry a 1911, but I LOVE glocks just because they are "point and click". It is unresponsible to leave a loaded gun laying out anyways, anybody could grab it and figure out how to turn the safety off and fire it off. I'd rather my gun be faster, then more child proof. I don't children or anybody else near my gun anways. If it's loaded, it's on me, or locked up until I go to sleep. Fewer safeties the better....long as it won't fire when dropped. Same thing with a revolver, heavy-ish trigger pull, no need for a safety. Just point and click. :ultracool


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