# Does your Sifu approve of you posting here?



## geezer (Oct 3, 2018)

Hey guys, how many of you have a Sifu that _knows _that you post on this forum and _approves_ of you engaging in open dialogue with members of other, different groups? I ask because I'm pretty sure all the traditional WC/WT/VT people I've trained under wouldn't like it.  

So I just don't talk about it with them. You know "Ignorance is bliss" and "It's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission" and all that. What about the rest of you?


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## Danny T (Oct 3, 2018)

My sifu doesn't know I post here specifically however, he knows I openly have discussions with numerous groups. Has no problem with such.


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## Headhunter (Oct 3, 2018)

No I don't say anything and frankly I don't care if they did have a problem. I'm allowed to post what I like. Outside of the club they have no control over me


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## geezer (Oct 3, 2018)

Headhunter said:


> No I don't say anything and frankly I don't care if they did have a problem. I'm allowed to post what I like. Outside of the club they have no control over me



True, but WC/WT/VT politics being what they are, it's easy to offend people. 

The guy I train with now started a sort of  forum for members only on his website. Once he asked me why I don't post there. The truth is because I sometimes like to question and debate our style's "sacred cows". Now you can't really do that on an official organization site, can you!


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## Headhunter (Oct 3, 2018)

geezer said:


> True, but WC/WT/VT politics being what they are, it's easy to offend people.
> 
> The guy I train with now started a sort of  forum for members only on his website. Once he asked me why I don't post there. The truth is because I sometimes like to question and debate our style's "sacred cows". Now you can't really do that on an official organization site, can you!


Yeah but tbh I don't care if I offend people over something so stupid. I've always said I respect my instructors and in class I'll be respectful and obedient but outside of the class they're no better than me they're human just like me


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## Buka (Oct 3, 2018)

I never had an instructor who cared.

That being said, I probably wouldn’t favor a beginner posting things publicly, because, you know, they don’t have much of a clue yet.


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## wckf92 (Oct 3, 2018)

I do what I want, where I want, how I want.


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## geezer (Oct 3, 2018)

I get the feeling that this attitude is more prevalent in TCMA and especially Wing Chun. I know forum members who lurk more than post for this reason. 

Others who post a lot have been scolded by their current or previous kung fu brothers for their free thinking. Remember when Jim Roselando came on here scolding KPM? I'll bet more than a few forum members have quietly bowed out to avoid such problems with their instructors. Those of us who carry on are often "free thinkers" or even rebels in our groups.


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## geezer (Oct 3, 2018)

wckf92 said:


> I do what I want, where I want, how I want.



Yeah, well that's Clint Eastwood ya got for yer avatar. Nobody messes with_ the man with no name!





_


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## Xue Sheng (Oct 3, 2018)

geezer said:


> Hey guys, how many of you have a Sifu that _knows _that you post on this forum and _approves_ of you engaging in open dialogue with members of other, different groups? I ask because I'm pretty sure all the traditional WC/WT/VT people I've trained under wouldn't like it.
> 
> So I just don't talk about it with them. You know "Ignorance is bliss" and "It's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission" and all that. What about the rest of you?



Not Wing Chun but I lost my Sanda sifu because I posted here about Sanda. I did not tell him, he found the page and it was not hard to figure out who I was from his perspective.


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## Gerry Seymour (Oct 3, 2018)

geezer said:


> Hey guys, how many of you have a Sifu that _knows _that you post on this forum and _approves_ of you engaging in open dialogue with members of other, different groups? I ask because I'm pretty sure all the traditional WC/WT/VT people I've trained under wouldn't like it.
> 
> So I just don't talk about it with them. You know "Ignorance is bliss" and "It's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission" and all that. What about the rest of you?


I know you meant this for the WC crowd, but you know that has never stopped me from posting! 

Years ago - when I was just one side or the other of my BB in my primary art - I posted some stuff that caught the eye of my instructor's instructor (who was also my first instructor). He wasn't happy. I had posted under my own name, and stood by what I said as my own opinion and observations, and that it shouldn't be of any offense to anyone mentioned. I continue to post under my own name, and that interaction with him (fairly aggressively passive-aggressive) is one of the reasons I decided I preferred being independent. I don't know what my instructor or any of my previous instructors would think of what I post here. I can't say I don't care, but I can say I proudly own what I write and don't have a problem with anyone reading it.

I know some folks are in a position where their sifu or instructor (or someone further up the chain) could make life difficult for them if they realized who was posting, so I don't fault anyone who decides to keep their identity off the public postings. I'm just glad I don't have to. I wish nobody else had to, either.


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## Gerry Seymour (Oct 3, 2018)

geezer said:


> True, but WC/WT/VT politics being what they are, it's easy to offend people.
> 
> The guy I train with now started a sort of  forum for members only on his website. Once he asked me why I don't post there. The truth is because I sometimes like to question and debate our style's "sacred cows". Now you can't really do that on an official organization site, can you!


Yeah, I wouldn't post some of my thoughts on the NGAA website, for the same reasons. I consider it odd that there's not more debate on those sites - those folks should be more concerned with the health of the art than anyone, but they're usually more concerned with the appearance of health.


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## MetalBoar (Oct 3, 2018)

Fascinating thread! I'm glad you asked this because it never would have occurred to me to be concerned about it in the first place. I can see why someone would get upset if a student claimed to speak for their instructor or their organization, but just posting on a MA forum? When I think about all the people I've trained with over the years, I can only think of one guy who might have a problem with it and it's mainly because he was kind of crazy in general. On the other hand, I've never done any formal training in any of the CMA's, so maybe there's some cultural differences I'm missing?

That's definitely something I think an instructor would need to communicate directly and clearly as it sure doesn't seem like a default requirement in my experience.


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## Gerry Seymour (Oct 3, 2018)

MetalBoar said:


> Fascinating thread! I'm glad you asked this because it never would have occurred to me to be concerned about it in the first place. I can see why someone would get upset if a student claimed to speak for their instructor or their organization, but just posting on a MA forum? When I think about all the people I've trained with over the years, I can only think of one guy who might have a problem with it and it's mainly because he was kind of crazy in general. On the other hand, I've never done any formal training in any of the CMA's, so maybe there's some cultural differences I'm missing?
> 
> That's definitely something I think an instructor would need to communicate directly and clearly as it sure doesn't seem like a default requirement in my experience.


I've been sitting here trying to think of a situation where I'd be upset by any student of mine posting. I can't think of one, unless they were lying about me or their training. I'd expect them to get some stuff "wrong" by my reckoning, and to say some things I disagree with and possibly don't like. But I can't see where that'd be much of an issue for me, so long as they're speaking truth.


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## dvcochran (Oct 3, 2018)

geezer said:


> I get the feeling that this attitude is more prevalent in TCMA and especially Wing Chun. I know forum members who lurk more than post for this reason.
> 
> Others who post a lot have been scolded by their current or previous kung fu brothers for their free thinking. Remember when Jim Roselando came on here scolding KPM? I'll bet more than a few forum members have quietly bowed out to avoid such problems with their instructors. Those of us who carry on are often "free thinkers" or even rebels in our groups.


I have been in MA since 1984. My GM is now 84 and I am certain he would have no problem as long as I wasn't a douche bag. I would say it is very narrow minded of anyone to have a problem with using a public forum no matter the topic. That said, I agree with others who have said they may have a problem with a new student using a forum in the wrong manner.


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## KPM (Oct 4, 2018)

geezer said:


> I get the feeling that this attitude is more prevalent in TCMA and especially Wing Chun. I know forum members who lurk more than post for this reason.
> 
> Others who post a lot have been scolded by their current or previous kung fu brothers for their free thinking. Remember when Jim Roselando came on here scolding KPM? I'll bet more than a few forum members have quietly bowed out to avoid such problems with their instructors. Those of us who carry on are often "free thinkers" or even rebels in our groups.



Since you brought it up........    He wasn't even my Sifu at that point!   However, back when he was actually my Sifu in the days when the KFO forum was actually a decent hang out, he specifically told me to stop posting in the forums.  Explicitly he told me that he was afraid I was sharing some of the "inner secrets" that he didn't want other Wing Chun lineages to know about.  This stands out in my mind after all these years because  I remember it occurred just after I mentioned the idea of a "Got" Bong or "cutting" Bong in Pin Sun Wing Chun.  He didn't want me talking about that.  He was also afraid I was telling people wrong info, though he could never point out anything I had shared that was in error.  Of course, implicitly, another motivation was that he wanted to be seen in the forums as THE authority on Pin Sun Wing Chun, so he couldn't very well have me "stealing his thunder"!     I assume he is still telling his students not to post in the forums.  His one current student that has posted has only posted here and in the FB Wing Chun forum to essentially come after me.  He has never actually participated in open discussion topics.   In these modern times I think this attitude is rather petty and small-minded.  But likely not all that uncommon amongst those that consider themselves "traditional."


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## _Simon_ (Oct 4, 2018)

geezer said:


> Hey guys, how many of you have a Sifu that _knows _that you post on this forum and _approves_ of you engaging in open dialogue with members of other, different groups? I ask because I'm pretty sure all the traditional WC/WT/VT people I've trained under wouldn't like it.
> 
> So I just don't talk about it with them. You know "Ignorance is bliss" and "It's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission" and all that. What about the rest of you?


You know I've always wondered about this! 

As I'm in between styles I don't think any knew, but wouldn't think it an issue at all.

I can see how some schools don't want their info/training methods openly shared, and fair enough to some degree. But I'm a big fan of openness and sharing and think it has great value as a whole


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## wckf92 (Oct 4, 2018)

KPM said:


> I remember it occurred just after I mentioned the idea of a "Got" Bong or "cutting" Bong in Pin Sun Wing Chun.  He didn't want me talking about that."



Yeah I recall that...fun times on the forum!   Hahaha

I'm sure you're already aware KPM...but got/cutting bong is not exclusive to Pin Sun. 

As to the topic of this thread...I have a "caveat" statement contained in my posts (borrowed in part from Juany) haha... 
It basically means that I speak for myself and my current state of wing chun knowledge and skills...NOT any particular instructor or family. It's one of the things I dislike about the Reddit wing chun forum....their "lineage" tags...


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## Tony Dismukes (Oct 4, 2018)

The idea that a martial artist shouldn’t engage in open dialogue with other groups or that their instructor should have the right to police what they say in such discussions is a terrible one. I’m aware that it’s part of a cultural tradition for some people. I’m also quite certain that it’s a bad cultural tradition and shouldn’t be carried on.


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## Flying Crane (Oct 4, 2018)

geezer said:


> Yeah, well that's Clint Eastwood ya got for yer avatar. Nobody messes with_ the man with no name!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah, but what about his horse?  Does the horse have a name??


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## Martial D (Oct 4, 2018)

geezer said:


> Hey guys, how many of you have a Sifu that _knows _that you post on this forum and _approves_ of you engaging in open dialogue with members of other, different groups? I ask because I'm pretty sure all the traditional WC/WT/VT people I've trained under wouldn't like it.
> 
> So I just don't talk about it with them. You know "Ignorance is bliss" and "It's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission" and all that. What about the rest of you?


Well, I haven't seen my WC sifu in over 20 years, but id magine he doesn't care too much.


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## Tony Dismukes (Oct 4, 2018)

Flying Crane said:


> Yeah, but what about his horse?  Does the horse have a name??


I don't think it does, but I heard he's been through the desert on it.


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## Flying Crane (Oct 4, 2018)

Tony Dismukes said:


> I don't think it does, but I heard he's been through the desert on it.


Well it is good to be out from the rain after all...


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## geezer (Oct 4, 2018)

Flying Crane said:


> Yeah, but what about his horse?  Does the horse have a name??



When I was a kid, that "man with no name" character portrayed by Eastwood was my definition of ultimate cool.

...and yes, actually I have ..._been through the desert on a horse with no name._ 

...er ...no, come to think of it, his name was "Archie".


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## yak sao (Oct 4, 2018)

Sing it everybody!... I've been through a desert on a horse named Archie....

I'm sorry no offense to Archie but it kind of loses something


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## geezer (Oct 4, 2018)

Keith ...your story is exactly what I'm talking about, man! I've seen it in several different WC/WT/VT lineages, especially those with lead by well known Chinese gentlemen or their "true-believer" followers. And it only gets worse, if they are making a living off their art and it's "authentic" reputation.

On the other hand, I have _not_ seen these attitudes, at least to such a degree, in martial arts that test their stuff in competition. Sure, the competitive MAs may have a strong club loyalty, but ultimately people are concerned with what works. And if you strut your stuff in open competition, it's already out there for everyone to see ... and to use, if they choose. 

Honestly, I believe the secrecy associated with a lot of WC and TCMA in general is just used to maintain a mystique to attract students. But at the same time it limits learning and leads to a degradation of the arts. In today's world, that just doesn't fly anymore.


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## geezer (Oct 4, 2018)

yak sao said:


> Sing it everybody!... I've been through a desert on a horse named Archie.... I'm sorry no offense to Archie but it kind of loses something



Well, I also used to ride Smokey, Clyde , Ahab, Freckles, Lucky... and a bunch of others over the years. But they sound just as bad.  Well, you could sing "On top of old Smokey..."  but that would never top the charts, now would it.

Wonder why cowboys never call their horses _"No Name"?   _


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## Gerry Seymour (Oct 4, 2018)

geezer said:


> Well, I also used to ride Smokey, Clyde , Ahab, Freckles, Lucky... and a bunch of others over the years. But they sound just as bad.  Well, you could sing "On top of old Smokey..."  but that would never top the charts, now would it.
> 
> Wonder why cowboys never call their horses _"No Name"?   _


Besides, Clyde was a camel. Or an orangutan.


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## geezer (Oct 4, 2018)

gpseymour said:


> Besides, Clyde was a camel. Or an orangutan.



Why does this thread keep coming back to Eastwood?


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## Buka (Oct 4, 2018)

I’m currently staying in Somerset MA on the Assonet River, which is salt water. Honest to God there are plants and birds and rocks and things, there is sand and hills and...no, really.


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## JowGaWolf (Oct 4, 2018)

I've gotten in trouble for posting in facebook and it ultimately got me kicked out.  For me I think the issue wasn't so much about my post as it was about the experience and understanding that I gained through sparring.  In some ocassions it highlighted that a student who had fewer years and knew fewer forms understood more about the application of kung fu than some of the Sifu's and other instructors. 

I think this bothered some resulting in me being kicked out of the school.  I was the only one in my school that had video demonstrating the ability to apply the techniques in sparring.  For me it's not a big deal.  I just want to be a good representation of Jow Ga and practical kung fu in general.  

Not everyone feels the same way about my videos.  They see the videos for what they are: A student with a passion to actually learn how to use Kung fu techniques and not a student trying to "show up others."  

Even though I got kick out of the school the head of the association as been supportive of my efforts to learn kung fu beyond terminology, forms" lion dance, and demos.


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## JowGaWolf (Oct 4, 2018)

Buka said:


> I never had an instructor who cared.
> 
> That being said, I probably wouldn’t favor a beginner posting things publicly, because, you know, they don’t have much of a clue yet.


This is where the student is the extension of the school and represents the school and it's teachings. Sort of like how children represent the parents.


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## Headhunter (Oct 4, 2018)

JowGaWolf said:


> I've gotten in trouble for posting in facebook and it ultimately got me kicked out.  For me I think the issue wasn't so much about my post as it was about the experience and understanding that I gained through sparring.  In some ocassions it highlighted that a student who had fewer years and knew fewer forms understood more about the application of kung fu than some of the Sifu's and other instructors.
> 
> I think this bothered some resulting in me being kicked out of the school.  I was the only one in my school that had video demonstrating the ability to apply the techniques in sparring.  For me it's not a big deal.  I just want to be a good representation of Jow Ga and practical kung fu in general.
> 
> ...


Better off without that place. Honestly I think some people really don't understand what martial arts is truly about


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## JowGaWolf (Oct 4, 2018)

I think the problem  with posting isn't much about the poster but more about the instructor or Sifu.   

Sometimes egos and power get in the way


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## JowGaWolf (Oct 4, 2018)

Headhunter said:


> Better off without that place. Honestly I think some people really don't understand what martial arts is truly about


I agree.  I can't abandon who I am as a person nor my moral values.  Anything that requires you to deny who you are is unhealthy.  My situation actually turned out fairly good and it's like I have been adopted by the organization.  The school that I used to teach in was kicked from the organization shortly after I was kicked out.   Me being kicked out was a saving grace in a way.


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## Gerry Seymour (Oct 4, 2018)

Buka said:


> I’m currently staying in Somerset MA on the Assonet River, which is salt water. Honest to God there are plants and birds and rocks and things, there is sand and hills and...no, really.


But do you have an orangutan named Clyde? Or, more improbably, his namesake the camel?


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## Gerry Seymour (Oct 4, 2018)

JowGaWolf said:


> This is where the student is the extension of the school and represents the school and it's teachings. Sort of like how children represent the parents.


Yeah, I wouldn't be concerned about a new student posting, per se, but I expect a lot of new students would be unable to properly explain (because they wouldn't yet understand) what's going on in classes. And a bad explanation would easily reflect badly on the school.


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## Gerry Seymour (Oct 4, 2018)

JowGaWolf said:


> I think the problem  with posting isn't much about the poster but more about the instructor or Sifu.
> 
> Sometimes egos and power get in the way


I know more than others here about your situation, and that's really the only conclusion I've been able to come to.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Oct 4, 2018)

JowGaWolf said:


> I've gotten in trouble for posting in facebook and it ultimately got me kicked out.  For me I think the issue wasn't so much about my post as it was about the experience and understanding that I gained through sparring.  In some ocassions it highlighted that a student who had fewer years and knew fewer forms understood more about the application of kung fu than some of the Sifu's and other instructors.
> 
> I think this bothered some resulting in me being kicked out of the school.  I was the only one in my school that had video demonstrating the ability to apply the techniques in sparring.  For me it's not a big deal.  I just want to be a good representation of Jow Ga and practical kung fu in general.
> 
> ...


I know I've mentioned this before about your old school, but screw em. And if I lived near you, I would be at your door in a second looking to learn from you


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## Gerry Seymour (Oct 4, 2018)

kempodisciple said:


> I know I've mentioned this before about your old school, but screw em. And if I lived near you, I would be at your door in a second looking to learn from you


I agree - screw 'em. 

I'm not far from his area, and I'm looking forward to spending some time learning from each other now that business seems to have slowed back down.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Oct 5, 2018)

Does your Sifu approve of you posting here?

A: Does your mom give you the permission to talk to strangers?  
B: Goo Goo Gaga


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## JowGaWolf (Oct 5, 2018)

gpseymour said:


> I know more than others here about your situation, and that's really the only conclusion I've been able to come to.


I learned some more stuff about that situation and I'm just really proud that I didn't compromise my values.. By the way I got a few videos coming soon.  I finally learned how to use the video editing softwareware.  I can add lower thirds now.  I'll upload them when I get back home.  I'm currently in Michigan.


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## Gerry Seymour (Oct 5, 2018)

JowGaWolf said:


> I learned some more stuff about that situation and I'm just really proud that I didn't compromise my values.. By the way I got a few videos coming soon.  I finally learned how to use the video editing softwareware.  I can add lower thirds now.  I'll upload them when I get back home.  I'm currently in Michigan.


Sweet. I need to find a space where I can do some new videos. No room in my office at home for more than standing still.


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## JowGaWolf (Oct 5, 2018)

kempodisciple said:


> I know I've mentioned this before about your old school, but screw em. And if I lived near you, I would be at your door in a second looking to learn from you


Thanks that says a lot.  my First Jow Ga Sifu told me to open a gym. Lots of support.  It was just one bad experience  and not representation of Jow Ga as a whole.  I know it's sometimes difficult not to paint with a 40 foot wide brush.  

I'll create a free lesson or introduction for you guys.


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## JowGaWolf (Oct 5, 2018)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> Does your Sifu approve of you posting here?
> 
> A: Does your mom give you the permission to talk to strangers?
> B: Goo Goo Gaga


Lol ummm yes for adults no for kids?


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## ShortBridge (Oct 5, 2018)

I don't know if he approves or not, but he doesn't try to control me that way. I know that I am responsible and accountable for how I represent him and others in our lineage and if I went off the rails to the point it warranted their attention, I'd have to answer for that. 

Also, we treat what we do as inherently private. Not secret, but private. There is a subtle, but important difference.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Oct 5, 2018)

ShortBridge said:


> Also, we treat what we do as inherently private. Not secret, but private. There is a subtle, but important difference.


Sometime secret is more than private. When my teacher was still alive, he didn't want me to talk about "How to counter a circular arm dragging". He said that the secret is just like a piece of thin paper. When that paper is there, it may takes years for your opponent to figure it out. If you poke a hole, everybody can see through.


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## Tony Dismukes (Oct 5, 2018)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> Sometime secret is more than private. When my teacher was still alive, he didn't want me to talk about "How to counter a circular arm dragging". He said that the secret is just like a piece of thin paper. When that paper is there, it may takes years for your opponent to figure it out. If you poke a hole, everybody can see through.


You have a background in computing, right? You should know that security through obscurity is not the most robust approach.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Oct 5, 2018)

Tony Dismukes said:


> You have a background in computing, right? You should know that security through obscurity is not the most robust approach.


In Taiwan, Judo guys compete in Shuai Chiao tournament and SC guys compete in Judo tournament. When a SC guy grabs on his Judo opponent's cross lapel and runs in circle, his Judo opponent is not familiar with that strategy. This gives SC guys a lot of advantage. Soon Judo guys in Taiwan find a defense method. They would use their own left hand to hold on their own right lapel. This way their opponent have no place to grab on the cross lapel.

For many years, the cross lapel circular dragging gave Judo guys big problem. It sounds funny but it did happen.

In Taiwan, the SC guys and Judo guys are not friendly to each other. Both sides try to hide their secrets as much as they can from the other. The counter to "circular dragging" is considered as "secret" in Taiwan by all SC guys. Any SC guy talks about that counter in Taiwan will get into trouble from his teacher big time.


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## JowGaWolf (Oct 5, 2018)

Tony Dismukes said:


> You have a background in computing, right? You should know that security through obscurity is not the most robust approach.


In terms of martial arts there's a big leap between KNOWING and DOING.   The best example would be the "oblique kick" in MMA.  as effective as it is, we just don't see many MMA fighters use it.   There's no secret to it.  We see it clear as day, yet.  That gap between KNOWING and DOING is really huge.  This is one reason I don't worry about people "stealing" what I know or "beating my techniques."  There will only be a small few who would even take the time to train to use it or analyze it so they can beat it.

Even if they get a glimpse on how to beat it, all I would have to do is switch things up, add it to a combo, and I'm good to go.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Oct 5, 2018)

JowGaWolf said:


> there's a big leap between KNOWING and DOING.


When something happen to you, you may only have 1/2 second to react. Your reaction always depend on your daily training. If something that you have never trained daily, you will not be able to react properly in that 1/2 second.

IMO, secret is something that you have added into your daily training and not just something in your head.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Oct 6, 2018)

Tony Dismukes said:


> security through obscurity is not the most robust approach.


The "secret" is like a piece of thin paper. If you poke it open, it's so easy to understand.

When your opponent drags your arm and runs in circle, if you resist, your opponent can borrow your resistance force, and  take you down backward.






if you yield, your opponent can borrow your yielding force, and  take you down forward.






The only solution is to "interrupt" your opponent's dragging and cut in front of him. This way, you can take the control back.






The issue is, without adding this into your daily training, how many people can figure this out during that 1/2 second window and make this right decision?

In my personal experience,

- 60% people will resist.
- 30% people will yield.
- 10% people will try to cut in angle.


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## Transk53 (Jan 5, 2019)

I don't think Sifu would have an issue, as long as it didn't bring anything in to disrupte. At seminars it is different, my partner wasn't allowed to film, and the same at grading. Facebook is a complete no no. Hopefully at some point I will be allowed to post myself doing the first form. I used wonder why we are not allowed to film much, but talking to the head Sifu, and without getting a concrete answer , they alluded to YouTubr being mainly full of uniformed videos.


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## drop bear (Jan 5, 2019)

I think he finds it funny more than anything.


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## Bill Mattocks (Jan 6, 2019)

I'm a student of TJMA rather than TCMA, but my Sensei knows I post. Because someone took it upon themselves to call him to complain. He laughs it off, but it ticks me off, hence my disclaimer. If anyone has a problem with me, cowboy up and tell me about it. Don't be a wussy little tattletail, which won't work anyway.


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## ShortBridge (Jan 6, 2019)

Bill Mattocks said:


> ...but my Sensei knows I post. Because someone took it upon themselves to call him to complain...



Wow. Stunned to silence. I want to say something about the Martial artist who would make that call, but I'm speechless


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## yak sao (Jan 6, 2019)

Bill Mattocks said:


> I'm a student of TJMA rather than TCMA, but my Sensei knows I post. Because someone took it upon themselves to call him to complain. He laughs it off, but it ticks me off, hence my disclaimer. If anyone has a problem with me, cowboy up and tell me about it. Don't be a wussy little tattletail, which won't work anyway.



Do you know who it was? We could gang up on him and beat him with bags of oranges.


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## Buka (Jan 6, 2019)

wckf92 said:


> I do what I want, where I want, how I want.



I remember that well. It's great to be single.


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## Bill Mattocks (Jan 6, 2019)

ShortBridge said:


> Wow. Stunned to silence. I want to say something about the Martial artist who would make that call, but I'm speechless



Happened more than once, I'm told. Apparently I offended someone to the point they thought my sensei would shut me up. Dude, I'm 57 years old, not 10.


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## Bill Mattocks (Jan 6, 2019)

yak sao said:


> Do you know who it was? We could gang up on him and beat him with bags of oranges.



My sensei would not tell me. He found it all amusing.


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## ShortBridge (Jan 6, 2019)

So, it doesn't matter and I don't need to know, but was it at least someone from your lineage or just some internet rando?


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## Bill Mattocks (Jan 6, 2019)

ShortBridge said:


> So, it doesn't matter and I don't need to know, but was it at least someone from your lineage or just some internet rando?



I suspect it was an upper level black belt in my style who knew my sensei. Never figured out specifically who though.


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## ShortBridge (Jan 6, 2019)

That would make the most sense, I guess. I would hope given the same circumstances someone would take their issues up directly with me, though.


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## wanderingstudent (Jan 6, 2019)

The beatings I can take. It's the caning, that really bothers me.  Which is why I post under an alias.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Jan 6, 2019)

Bill Mattocks said:


> I suspect it was an upper level black belt in my style who knew my sensei. Never figured out specifically who though.


Was the issue that you posted here or something specific that you posted? If answering would get you in trouble, dont, I just dont understand the idea that posting in a forum is something to be frowned on.


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## Gerry Seymour (Jan 6, 2019)

wanderingstudent said:


> The beatings I can take. It's the caning, that really bothers me.  Which is why I post under an alias.


Man, I hope that's a joke.


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## Bill Mattocks (Jan 6, 2019)

kempodisciple said:


> Was the issue that you posted here or something specific that you posted? If answering would get you in trouble, dont, I just dont understand the idea that posting in a forum is something to be frowned on.



I never had any idea what the issue was.


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## Gerry Seymour (Jan 6, 2019)

kempodisciple said:


> Was the issue that you posted here or something specific that you posted? If answering would get you in trouble, dont, I just dont understand the idea that posting in a forum is something to be frowned on.


I had a similar issue a while back, but it was with someone senior in the organization I was in at the time. I won't post details publicly, but if you're interested PM me.


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## drop bear (Jan 6, 2019)

Bill Mattocks said:


> Happened more than once, I'm told. Apparently I offended someone to the point they thought my sensei would shut me up. Dude, I'm 57 years old, not 10.



Wow. If people think these posts can be insensitive Tell my coach I hurt someone's feelings on the internet.


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## pdg (Jan 7, 2019)

drop bear said:


> Wow. If people think these posts can be insensitive Tell my coach I hurt someone's feelings on the internet.



Internet feelings are the worst kind of feelings to hurt.

You should be ashamed if it's even a possibility that you hurt somebody's internet feels.

The only way to seek redemption is to watch a cute kitten video.


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## ShortBridge (Jan 7, 2019)




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## geezer (Jan 7, 2019)

ShortBridge said:


>



That would be _MMA_ vs WC from the looks of it.


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## Gerry Seymour (Jan 7, 2019)

geezer said:


> That would be _MMA_ vs WC from the looks of it.


Or even wrestling vs. WC, if the big cat had gone with a single-leg.


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## PiedmontChun (Jan 7, 2019)

Its weird how WC is so tribal. I suppose it can easily happen when a martial art is so fractured into different organizations that different groups either end up doing things differently. Or maybe they split *because* they did things differently, but that's a "what came first, the chicken or the egg?" type argument I guess. WC is certainly not the only TMA that has that tribalism; it just seems to come up all the time. And the secrecy with some! My old WT school would have gladly welcomed a new student for a free intro class, but strongly discouraged people observing a class out of curiosity, and would not have welcomed a traveling student from another organization. I thought that was normal. After all, we don't want people copying our ways!

In contrast, I have found the BJJ community is so open; people are almost *encouraged* to go train at other schools because it means you either 1) learn from others who have something that you do not (and bring that experience back to your school), or 2) test yourself against others outside your school. Either way, it only sharpens you as a martial artist. I haven't had opportunity yet but when the need comes up to visit my client's headquarters for work - I already know where I will be taking in an out of town class!

As I type this, I think of multiple guys here who have put out an invitation for people traveling to pop in and train, so obviously there are WC/WT guys that are very open.


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## ShortBridge (Jan 7, 2019)

We are far from "very open", but I've been welcomed in other clubs when I've traveled and I try to be hospitable when it is appropriate. I really just don't want anyone disrupting my class. If I have a good feeling about their intentions and character, we can be a very friendly group.

I'll always meet pretty much anybody for a beer or cup of coffee if they want to talk shop.


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## _Simon_ (Jan 7, 2019)

ShortBridge said:


>


Hahahahaha that is amazing XD


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