# What's the advantage of pistol-grip shotguns?



## thardey (Feb 5, 2009)

So I keep hearing about how the "police configuration" of a 12 gague is the "ultimate home defense" weapon, and I have added a magazine extender tube, and a side-saddle for another 5 rounds to my 870. But beyond that, what are the true advantages?

I also hunt with my shotgun (the primary use BTW), and it's no big deal to remove the extender, add the plug, and be perfectly legal for hunting. 

To that end, I still have the 26-inch barrel, and the standard synthetic stock.

So, what's the big advantage of the pistol-grip with the folding stock? At home defense range, even with an 18" open-choke barrel, the spread is still small enough to require basic aiming, not hip-shooting -- why limit your ability to shoulder and fire the shotgun in the most effective manner?

I'm asking because I'm thinking about getting one, but I'm not sure if it's worth the "image" of defending myself with a "modified for killing people" type shotgun. That is, if I do use it is self-defense, the people on the jury are going to see an "assault shotgun" if it has a folding stock.

On the other hand, if it does have a tactical advantage, I would rather have it and protect my family, and deal with the public perception issues later. 

I can see the advantage of storing it with the shorter configuration, but the folding stock will be harder to practice with, because of the lack of cushion. Also, I've never shot a shotgun with only a pistol grip -- how hard is it to control?

Or, would I be wiser to go with the telescoping stock?

Keep in mind that I am thinking about defense within the home -- not on the streets or anything like that.

If I want to go hunting, it will only take me a couple of minutes to change the configuration back, so I'm not too worried about that, either.


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## SFC JeffJ (Feb 5, 2009)

My home defense shotgun has a pistol grip with a full sized stock.  I like it that way so I can really pull it into the crook of my shoulder.  I don't trust the folding stocks and haven't had any experience with the telescoping ones.  But it seems to me if you aren't in the back of an APC, you don't really need to shorten it.


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## Grenadier (Feb 5, 2009)

Manuverability, that's all.  

Shotguns are designed to be fired from the shoulder, and doing so makes the recoil manageable.  

I made the mistake of firing a 12 gauge Mossberg shotgun, with an 18" barrel, and a pistol grip only.  After three shots of full power 00 buckshot, my hand was tingling, and the webbing had cut open a bit.  Not nice.  

If I did need a compact shotgun in cramped quarters, I'd be loading it up with reduced power buckshot, or even birdshot.


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## Deaf Smith (Feb 5, 2009)

Tharday,

I love finding pistol gripped shotguns for cheep prices at pawn shops. I get them and buy a buttstock for them!

The pistol gripped 'cruiser' shotgun, at least to me, is a very specialized close range HD weapon that you fire from the hip. If you try to aim it by bring it up to the line of sight you will find your fist that holds the grip smashing your nose when that 12 goes off! I prefer the handgun for the same situations I'd use such a weapon.

I have two Mossburg 12s. Both chrome finish. One, a Marine 500 that came with just the pistol grip, I had a Mossie factory buttstock at home for it. 18 inch barrel and tac-star side saddle and jumbo safety. It's my "PC" gun, that is politicaly correct shotgun. It holds 5 rounds and the tac-star holds 4.

The other, a 590, ghost ring sights, 20 inch tube, is my general purpose shotgun. It has tac-star side saddle and speed feed stock (and the regular stock is what went on the other Mossie!) And I added a jumbo saftey to easly manipulate the safety.

I have the orgional pistol grip with the 500 but it sits in the parts box!

Deaf


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## KenpoTex (Feb 5, 2009)

A shotgun with a pistol-grip and full stock is fine and it's really just a matter of personal preference at that point.  Though I will say that I wouldn't want one on a shotgun with a tang-mounted safety (Mossberg) because you can't manipulate the safety without compromising your firing grip...personal issue there, I like to maintain my firing grip at all times.

I really don't see a use for one with only a pistol grip outside of very specific circumstances (e.g. a breaching gun).  The only advantage such a weapon gives you is ease of concealment/storage...in a fight, you're losing the advantage afforded by a full-stocked long gun.


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## searcher (Feb 5, 2009)

They ahve always made my wrists hurt, so I keep my full stock on mine.


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## jarrod (Feb 5, 2009)

i've had the exact opposite problem as searcher.  i have trouble with my wrists, especially my left one, & pistol grips do seem to keep them aligned better.  though i do have a full stock.  i'd like to get a pistol grip on the pump since i can't carry in the alert position for more than a minute without my left wrist flaring up.

jf


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## chinto (Feb 6, 2009)

i prefer a full butt stock. if it is to close you can butt stroke the intruder and fallow up as needed.


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## seasoned (Feb 6, 2009)

I guess it would be concealment and maneuverability for me. Short stock would work, it is all about close quarter, especially when maneuvering through a house.


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## searcher (Feb 6, 2009)

JMHO, but if you want more maneuverability go buy a pistol.   Way more maneuverable than a shot gun.


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## Brian King (Feb 6, 2009)

Years ago when I lived in a small apartment in a large complex a shotgun was my go to weapon. I was more worried about thru and thru shots and over penetration thru the thin walls into my neighbor&#8217;s home. Most pistol rounds will easily penetrate a couple of layers of sheetrock. I practiced maneuvering around the house with all of the furniture and doing so in the dark. I also practiced shooting and chambering using only a single arm as well as bouncing shot off of hard surfaces. 

One advantage to a pistol grip is it helps set up weapon platform similarity between your other long guns and your shot gun. 

A person should be in my opinion able to use weapons in multiple configurations but for your personal weapon more important than what is the current fad or what makes sense to this gun guru or that one is that your weapon fits you (physically emotionally and spiritually). It must be comfortable for you to fire and fire a lot. I am sure most will agree that if you do not practice having the perfect wizbang set-up does little good. 

Regards
Brian King


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## Andy Moynihan (Feb 6, 2009)

They're AWESOME wrist breakers...........


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## KenpoTex (Feb 6, 2009)

Andy Moynihan said:


> They're AWESOME wrist breakers...........


 
ah...they're not _that_ bad...back when it was still cheap enough to shoot purely for the hell of it, I enjoyed shooting a shotgun with just a pistol grip and plinking with 8mm Mausers and Mosin Nagants. (I'm not really very recoil-sensitive)


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## sjansen (Feb 6, 2009)

Pistol grips won't break your wrist but can hurt. However, they are very good at manuvering tight places. Also, the weapon is much harder to strip if you encounter a foe in close quarters. You can also bring the weapon to bear much quicker. This is why the new m4 has a pistol grip on the foreend. It will hamper your shooting at long distances, but that's not really the point. It's the right grip for the right place.


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## jarrod (Feb 7, 2009)

there's also the fact that whenever you hold one, you get that catchy song in your head.





 
jf


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## thardey (Feb 9, 2009)

Thanks for the input, guys.

Since I've trained with the shotgun in a "standard" grip, that's what comes most naturally to me, I think I'll just leave it alone.

For checking out the "bump in the night" stuff, I'll stick with my Glock and tac-light. I'll only pull out the shotgun if I _know_ that there's a violent intruder in the house, and then I'll be holed up in the bedroom, not out looking for him. There, manuverability isn't much of an issue.

So, I think "civilian mode" should be just fine.

Thanks for saving me about $60!


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## blp03 (Mar 9, 2009)

I would have to agree that it would hurt your wrist a little using a pistol grip. I have a tactical stock with a pistol grip on my 870 HD and I love it. It feels comfortable and I'm able to maneuver pretty easily with it because of the pistol grip as far as moving my weapon up and down when clearing corners. I also have a sling to be able to switch from long to short quickly if need be. I have a friend who is special forces and he gave me some good advice as far as the adjustable stocks. He told me the less moving parts the better. I was looking at getting the collapsable stock but decided to get what I got instead. Hope that helps.


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## sgtmac_46 (Mar 11, 2009)

chinto said:


> i prefer a full butt stock. if it is to close you can butt stroke the intruder and fallow up as needed.


 Why would you want to buttstroke them when you have a perfectly good metal barrel to run through their teeth?  And you're still pointed in the right direction.


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## sgtmac_46 (Mar 11, 2009)

thardey said:


> Thanks for the input, guys.
> 
> Since I've trained with the shotgun in a "standard" grip, that's what comes most naturally to me, I think I'll just leave it alone.
> 
> ...


 Either is fine......I like a pistol grip (with a full length buttstock) but it's just the angle of my wrist being more comfortable.  Either is as good as the other in any practical sense.

Now a  pistol grip without a buttstock is a useless animal, in my opinion.


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## Skpotamus (Mar 18, 2009)

My buddy had a PGO mossberg 500 that was pretty nice. Keeping constant forward pressure with the left hand (he gripped the pistol grip with his right hand) let him keep control of the shotgun at eye level and able to keep a pretty good rate of fire at 15 yards shooting Brenneke KO 2 3/4" slugs. He kept low recoil buckshot in it for home use.  The shorter gun was easier to manuever indoors as well as giving him a shotgun over a handgun.  

Personally, I keep a knoxx recoil reducing spec ops stock in my home shotgun so my wife can shoot it easily too. The pistol grip with a shoulder stock feels much more ergonomic to me. 

Has anybody tried the knoxx breacher grip? It's supposed to help reduce recoil without a shoulder stock.


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## sgtmac_46 (Mar 19, 2009)

Skpotamus said:


> My buddy had a PGO mossberg 500 that was pretty nice. Keeping constant forward pressure with the left hand (he gripped the pistol grip with his right hand) let him keep control of the shotgun at eye level and able to keep a pretty good rate of fire at 15 yards shooting Brenneke KO 2 3/4" slugs. He kept low recoil buckshot in it for home use.  The shorter gun was easier to manuever indoors as well as giving him a shotgun over a handgun.
> 
> Personally, I keep a knoxx recoil reducing spec ops stock in my home shotgun so my wife can shoot it easily too. The pistol grip with a shoulder stock feels much more ergonomic to me.
> 
> Has anybody tried the knoxx breacher grip? It's supposed to help reduce recoil without a shoulder stock.



A breaching shotgun is about the only exception I can think of as a legitimate use for a shotgun without a shoulder stock, as it's a very specialized instrument who's only use is close range shooting of locks and hinges.


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## Big Don (Mar 19, 2009)

sgtmac_46 said:


> Why would you want to buttstroke them when you have a perfectly good metal barrel to run through their teeth?  And you're still pointed in the right direction.


You could foul a barrel that way. A proper buttstroke will apply a lot more force than you could thrusting with  the barrel.


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## Big Don (Mar 19, 2009)

The only advantage I see, is it is scary looking to people who don't know better.


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## sgtmac_46 (Mar 23, 2009)

Big Don said:


> You could foul a barrel that way. A proper buttstroke will apply a lot more force than you could thrusting with  the barrel.


 Oh absolutely not!  The risk is far greater of 

1) Breaking the butt off and/or

2) Damaging the firing mechanism and/or

3) Accidentally shooting someone BEHIND you and/or

4) Getting the shotgun taken away from you by attempting to buttstroke and/or

5) All of the above and a dozen other possibilities I haven't thought of....


Than the remote possibility you're going to foul the barrel up running the end of the barrel through their teeth........foul up with......what exactly?  His teeth, jaw and gums?  Bits of cartilage from his nose?

If it ever comes to using a shotgun as an impact weapon, i'll take my chances with the metal barrel that's already pointed in their direction, rather than risk a grappling match by turning the business end back in my direction, and the grip toward the bad guy. 


In fact, if anyone is ever pointing a shotgun at me, I hope they decide to try and buttstroke me with it!


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## sgtmac_46 (Mar 23, 2009)

Big Don said:


> The only advantage I see, is it is scary looking to people who don't know better.


 True, that.


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## BLACK LION (Mar 30, 2009)

After training for an assault against someone armed with a pistol grip 12ga with the short barrel and no stock I realized some of the advantages for having one  in close quarters . One can be more versatile with its deployment and use.  Its also easier to retain and more difficult to disarm than a 18" 12ga with a stock. 
I own a benelli supernova tactical with the 18" barrel , pistol grip and buttstock... I love this shotgun but find myself compensating for its length and bulk in close quaters by utilizing the haught technique. I sometimes wish I had a pistol grip only 12ga for up close and personal business where shouldering and sighting really dont apply.  

just a thought.


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## Andy Moynihan (Mar 30, 2009)

sgtmac_46 said:


> Oh absolutely not! The risk is far greater of
> 
> 1) Breaking the butt off and/or
> 
> ...


 
To say nothing of thae fact I have a problem with any technique that involves pointing the muzzle back at me when I may not have expended its payload. What if I crack him with an uppercut buttstroke to the nuts, I forget under the influence of body alarm reaction//adrenaline dump to  keep the muzzle aimed over my shoulder and the weapon discharges? Ouch.


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## sgtmac_46 (Mar 31, 2009)

BLACK LION said:


> After training for an assault against someone armed with a pistol grip 12ga with the short barrel and no stock I realized some of the advantages for having one  in close quarters . One can be more versatile with its deployment and use.  Its also easier to retain and more difficult to disarm than a 18" 12ga with a stock.
> I own a benelli supernova tactical with the 18" barrel , pistol grip and buttstock... I love this shotgun but find myself compensating for its length and bulk in close quaters by utilizing the haught technique. I sometimes wish I had a pistol grip only 12ga for up close and personal business where shouldering and sighting really dont apply.
> 
> just a thought.


 A good tactical sling would solve the retention problems.

And if you find yourself in EXTREMELY tight quarters, dropping the shotgun (onto the tactical sling) and drawing your sidearm is an even better choice.


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## sgtmac_46 (Mar 31, 2009)

Andy Moynihan said:


> To say nothing of thae fact I have a problem with any technique that involves pointing the muzzle back at me when I may not have expended its payload. What if I crack him with an uppercut buttstroke to the nuts, I forget under the influence of body alarm reaction//adrenaline dump to  keep the muzzle aimed over my shoulder and the weapon discharges? Ouch.


Indeed!


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## BLACK LION (Mar 31, 2009)

As far as striking with the shotgun... if at a low ready I would shove the barrel into the threats testicles while keeping the muzzle pointed in his direction or downward... 
In the high ready I would shove the side of the shotgun across the clavicle into the throat or the head at a diagonal angle to send them backward all while keeping the muzzle pointed up...    

I also like the idea of a forward mounted tac-light with a striker bezel... I have seen some pretty gnarly ones on those Cree lights.....  they can be blinded then bashed.... 

I decided to make a comment since it was brought up...


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## Guardian (Apr 8, 2009)

sgtmac_46 said:


> Why would you want to buttstroke them when you have a perfectly good metal barrel to run through their teeth? And you're still pointed in the right direction.


 
Crap, you beat me to it SgtMac LOL.


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## Guardian (Apr 8, 2009)

I'm not buttstroking anyone.  Sorry to many if's in that one as pointed out, T.V. looks good, we were taught if you have to use the butt, then you better have your sidearm drawn and ready to go.


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## sgtmac_46 (Apr 9, 2009)

BLACK LION said:


> As far as striking with the shotgun... if at a low ready I would shove the barrel into the threats testicles while keeping the muzzle pointed in his direction or downward...
> In the high ready I would shove the side of the shotgun across the clavicle into the throat or the head at a diagonal angle to send them backward all while keeping the muzzle pointed up...
> 
> I also like the idea of a forward mounted tac-light with a striker bezel... I have seen some pretty gnarly ones on those Cree lights.....  they can be blinded then bashed....
> ...



Excellent points, you're exactly right.....you have a perfectly useful steel barrel already pointed down range......why not use it while still keeping it pointed down range?


If folks are that worried about using the shotgun itself as a weapon, just fix bayonet!


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