# My Shoe is a Deadly Weapon?



## Zepp (Mar 24, 2006)

An instructor I know who trains security personnel and police officers told me that a shoe can be legally considered a deadly weapon if it is used to kick someone.  He also told me that it is standard procedure for police to confiscate a person's shoe as evidence when they investigate an assault in which that person kicked somebody (at least here in California anyway).  Interesting, eh?

So, I'm curious, how often have any of you LEO's out there confiscated someone's shoe as evidence in an assault?

Or better yet, have any of you ever had the cops take your shoe?


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## Hand Sword (Mar 24, 2006)

I've never seen a shoe taken, but, extra charges are against you for kicking, "a shod foot" is what it's called.


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## MA-Caver (Mar 24, 2006)

"You fight like a woman! Honestly! Who throws a shoe??" ~ Austin Powers International Man Of Mystery.... baby!


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## Adept (Mar 24, 2006)

MA-Caver said:
			
		

> "You fight like a woman! Honestly! Who throws a shoe??" ~ Austin Powers International Man Of Mystery.... baby!



Thats exactly what I was thinking as I opened this thread!

On topic: I've never heard of this. Maybe California is just a bit strange, in this regard.


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## Hand Sword (Mar 24, 2006)

Not so weird! They need to protect all of those plastic faces. I mean, a thrown shoe could be very costly!


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## SFC JeffJ (Mar 24, 2006)

Reminds me of a bit from a comedian years ago.

NYC cop after being stabbed:  Gimme that thing and get the hell outta here!!

LAPD cop pulling someone over:  (with drawn gun) Get out of the car!! Now!! Get the f*** on the ground!!  Your right speaker is out!!

Worked with some LAPD and Sherif Dept guys while I was stationed out at Ft. Ord, nothing but respect for them, the D.A.'s there though, that's another story.


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## bushidomartialarts (Mar 24, 2006)

we need to end and hide this thread right now, before they start taking my shoes at the airport.


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## still learning (Mar 24, 2006)

Hello, How do they know which shoe to take?  Is there physcial evidence on the toe?,heel?, or blade of the shoe? or the guys face?    ..just joking!

So the shoe is the weapon?  What is the leg doing the kicking is call?  attactment?  

"Please officer" , do not take my weapons? (shoes).  If you are using gloves because it is cold and you hit someone? ...is the glove consider a weapon too?   "Officer I didn't use my fist to hit them? ..it was my gloves?

What else can be use for weapons?  ...400lb man?  I just when seat on him?   is FAT a weapon?  

I gonna stop here....or my key boards will strike me?  .....Aloha ...ow


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## still learning (Mar 24, 2006)

Hello, We do alot of shoreline fishing in rocky areas,(many of the rocks are slipperly.)  We use Japan made "Tabes" sock type of shoes with felt bottoms and/ or with spikes.  I have the ones with spikes all over the bottom, great for walking the shoreline. The grib is solid.

Sounds like golf shoes on concete.  .....Aloha


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## beau_safken (Mar 24, 2006)

Hmmmm Well looks like I better not kick anyone around here.  The cops here in San Francisco might take my schools just because they don't match my outfit


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## Carol (Mar 24, 2006)

Same in Mass.  I forget whether they call it aggrevated assault or assault with a deadly weapon.  It may not be a felony assault charge, but it wouldn't be simple assault anymore.  Not sure whether if the police take shoes or not...never been that close to a fight (knock on wood).


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## kickcatcher (Mar 24, 2006)

I guess it depends where you are but generally I think you'd have to have modified footware for it to be seen as an offensive weapon - at least in UK. I knew a guy who used to wear army boots to nightclubs... same guy used to throw bottles over his shoulder in nightclubs... he was a lovely bloke when he was sober but a liability after a pint ot two. But even he didn't modify the boots - hell he didn't have to.


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## still learning (Mar 25, 2006)

Hello, Do you remember the Beatles shoes?  Very pointed?  We all had one at that time?  That would make a good weapon today.  "Yea yea yea"

Not sure if the Beatle's hair cut would be good?  ........Aloha


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## Cruentus (Mar 25, 2006)

I think someone was confused when they told you the story.

Deadly force is anything that could cause: "grave bodily harm or death."

It is not so much that the shoe was a weapon, it is that repeated kicks to the head while someone is on the ground could constitute deadly force. There are recorded incidents of deaths from kicks to the head while the person is grounded.

There are a lot of things that constitute a deadly force situation that don't involve weapons. Eye gauges, for example, constitutes grave bodily harm, and is therefore considered lethal force.

So, I don't think it was the shoe that was considered a weapon. I think that it was the kicks to the head that could constitute deadly force.

Paul


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## theletch1 (Mar 25, 2006)

The shoe adds an extra bit of damage to the attack.  Try raking your bare foot down someones shin...now do it with hiking boots on.  Big difference in damage.  Kick someone in the head with a bare foot...now do it with steel toes on.  Again a big difference.  I believe the idea is that anything that is not part of the natural human body is considered a weapon and given how it is used makes it deadly.  Just my 2 cents worth.


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## tshadowchaser (Mar 25, 2006)

If you kick some one with a "shod" foot in this state its big trouble for you.

and yes I have had my shoes taken befor by police

I really dont know how others see a shoe or boot in respect to them being weapons but I know my socks should be considered leathal


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## Jimi (Mar 25, 2006)

Could it be that police may confiscate shoes if a victim is seriously injured due to footwear that is more condusive to causing extra damage. I.E. Steel toe boots, cowboy boots, army boots and the like. I would hope that that police would not strip my feet if I kicked someone in the leg or torso wearing just tennis shoes. I don't think that is quite the same as wearing Timberlands and stomping a downed victim like a good old fashion prison @$$ beating and grinding the boots on their face. I would guess it is up to the officers discretion and the severity of the injuries. If the police could confiscate shoes from anyone involed in an altercation where a kick was landed, the evidence room would look like an old Kenney shoe store. I'm saving my shoes in case my feet wear out,HAHAHA. PEACE


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## Rich Parsons (Mar 25, 2006)

Zepp said:
			
		

> An instructor I know who trains security personnel and police officers told me that a shoe can be legally considered a deadly weapon if it is used to kick someone. He also told me that it is standard procedure for police to confiscate a person's shoe as evidence when they investigate an assault in which that person kicked somebody (at least here in California anyway). Interesting, eh?
> 
> So, I'm curious, how often have any of you LEO's out there confiscated someone's shoe as evidence in an assault?
> 
> Or better yet, have any of you ever had the cops take your shoe?




Well, IN Michigan shoes and in particular boots are considered a deadly weapon so it changes kicking someone while they are down form assault to Assault with a deadly weapon with the intent to commit murder. 

The only time I have had a shoe collected was when a neighbor reported someone broke into his van and stole all his 70's country music. I was barely 19 at the time and I did not listen to country. The "prints in the snow" were considered a "Match" since the top of the "print" was about as mig as my shoe but still a little smaller. The police then wanted to take me in. I said no problem. I asked them how they came looking for me or my brother? This guys much closer neighbor as we were a 1/2 mile down the dirt road, and he was at the dead end. This neighbor women stated that me and my brother were always in trouble and causing problems. I said, ok, am I being arrested or taken in for questioning? Because if I am arrested, I need to call my roommates in Ann Arbor where I attend the U or Mich as a Chem Engineering student, to let them knwo I will not be home and also will not be in class. The police then relaxed and actually started asking questions. Such as where was I the night before, and so forth.  My brother was out of town and I was out with a young lady until about 2 hours before the police showed up at 9:00 AM. I then explained that the neighbor's lady child, had recently died, while running from the police in a stolen Vette, transporting drugs.  I had no problems going with them, just wanted them to know it was a dead end, and where the issue lied. 

Later my Dad went down with my shoes and they did not fit into the "prints" and talked to the victum. He had come from a hockey game with a headache and had nto played his tapes or listened to his system. 

I got my shoes back before the police left, and they later called the victum back where he admitted it might have occurred at the hockey stadium parking lot. 

Although  I have not been in any instances in a very long time to have a police officer take my shoes, so procedures might have changed.


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## Cruentus (Mar 25, 2006)

When Rich walks around barefoot, the sasquach crowd goes nuts! Its a good thing they gave you back your shoes to prevent civil unrest... :uhyeah: 

Back to the question...
If the question is could shoes be taken as evidence, well of course they could. Any thing used in a crime can be taken as evidence.

Also, heavy boots for example could be cosidered a tool of deadly force, same as a pen could be considered as such if one were to stab someone repeatedly with it.

So, it all depends on the crime. But as far as kicks to the head go, legally it doesn't matter your so much what kind of footwear you have as I explained previously.


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## Cryozombie (Mar 27, 2006)

Iv'e had a similar discussion (and posted here about it once) regarding motorcycle gloves with carbonfiber or titanium knuckels... 

In Illinios the law says you cannot have any type of "metal knuckle" covering, and I enquired if Icon TiMaxx titanium riding gloves would be confiscated because of that, and also how much difference in charges there would be, if someone started a fight with me while i was riding and I nailed them.  I think the same thing applies.

Its stupid, if you ask me, what are you supposed to do, get beat down while you take off your shoes (or goves?)​
I think it would come down to defensiblity in court at that time... "I was in imminent danger, and afraid, I had no time to remove them, without believing I was risking serious injury or death to my person..."


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## shesulsa (Mar 27, 2006)

The closest I've come to this is when me and my son had to remove our shoes at the airport.  My son is over 6' tall and autistic which lends to his stashing small, odd items in his pockets.  So I patted him down after we got out of the car, made sure he wore a plastic latch belt that day, didn't wear any jewelry and his pockets were empty.  So when he set the metal detector off, I was dumbfounded.  The wand picked up our shoes. This was before removing your shoes before going through security was a standard.

I wore hiking boots and he sport shoes.  The boy wears a size 13 1/2.  That's when I found out there were metal stays in shoe soles.  

Once we got his shoes off and they were examined, one of the guys said he'd hate to be kicked by one of those.  Can't say as I blame him.


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