# The year 2012, the end of the world?



## Zida'sukara (Mar 7, 2007)

According to the Maya-calendar, the world will end in the year 2012. 

I read a few things about it the last years and somehow the thought came up again today I learned that we already left a zone by the year of 1987 and we are now travelling to a new zone which will start in 21 December 2012. In the years between 1987 and 2012 the earth energy fibrations are changing and it seems that from 2012 some of us will get out of our 3rd Dimension and go to a 4th Dimension. But only the souls who are ready for this.

Now, I am doubting it, some Jehova people already told me a few times that humanity will die tomorrow.  But on the other hand, the Mayas where right about other matters too in their Calendar, they never made a mistake according to specialist even not with the future upto now. 

So I am wondering how other people think of this.







 The Maya Calendar.


----------



## terryl965 (Mar 7, 2007)

This cannot be for my sone is trying to make the 2012 Olympic team what now? How can he go on knowing the world is over. Oh well **** happens.


----------



## Xue Sheng (Mar 7, 2007)

I tell you if they were wrong in 2013 

How the heck can you figure out what year 2012 is on a Mayan calendar anyway.

http://www.pauahtun.org/Calendar/tools.html

Without some study, which I am not going to do, that is.


----------



## Zida'sukara (Mar 7, 2007)

Xue Sheng said:


> I tell you if they were wrong in 2013


 
:lool:


----------



## exile (Mar 7, 2007)

If anyone can show me that the ancient Mayans correctly predicted the strategies of the opposing armies and the final outcome of the Battle of Stalingrad, or the fact that James Clerk Maxwell proved electricity and magnetism to be two different expressions of the same force in the late 19th c., I'll start paying attention to `end of the world' prophecies supposedly recorded in their calendar.


----------



## crushing (Mar 7, 2007)

Awesome!  All the previous end of the worlds so far have just kind of fizzled out.  Be on the lookup (or lookout) for a Jaguar at the foot of a tree in December 2012!


----------



## Bigshadow (Mar 7, 2007)

There was a show on the History channel recently about this.  The experts they interviewed had varying opinions on it.  The jist of it as I saw it, was that the calendar ends on 2012 and just likely starts over. Much like our annual calendar starts over after 12 months.  Not that it is anything significant.  In each phase it isn't too hard to find something that would be considered a catastrophic phenomena.  

I am not too concerned about it, myself.


----------



## Blindside (Mar 7, 2007)

So if you believe the world is going to end (or really change) in 2012, do you believe that it was created in 3114 BC?  Because that is the beginning of the 13 baktun cycle.  And if you are going to lend this much credence to Mayan mythology and their calenders, do you believe that it was created by three feathered serpents?

Incidentally, I think the world will end on December 31, 2008, cause thats when the calender in my Dayplanner runs out.


----------



## CoryKS (Mar 7, 2007)

I'd say that an extinct civilization has already proven its inability to predict the future.


----------



## exile (Mar 7, 2007)

Blindside said:


> So if you believe the world is going to end (or really change) in 2012, do you believe that it was created in 3114 BC?  Because that is the beginning of the 13 baktun cycle.  And if you are going to lend this much credence to Mayan mythology and their calenders, do you believe that it was created by three feathered serpents?
> 
> Incidentally, I think the world will end on December 31, 2008, cause thats when the calender in my Dayplanner runs out.





			
				CoryKS said:
			
		

> 'd say that an extinct civilization has already proven its inability to predict the future.



And after these two observations, I can't think of much that still needs saying about the probable fate of the earth in 2012...


----------



## Tez3 (Mar 7, 2007)

crushing said:


> Awesome! All the previous end of the worlds so far have just kind of fizzled out. Be on the lookup (or lookout) for a Jaguar at the foot of a tree in December 2012!


 
My neighbour has a very nice Jaguar parked in front of his house, a very superior piece of British engineering. The world can't end in 2012, that's when my mortgage finishes and my house will be mine, all mine I say! My calendar goes backwards so I get younger every year which means the world has actually ended and we are in limbo somewhere.


----------



## Shaderon (Mar 7, 2007)

The reference to the end of the world was very probably and end of an era or something similar.  I can't see the world ending that abruptly to have it measured down to a specific year.  It's possible that it might mean the polar axis might shift....  that'd cause some pretty catastrophic events... but that too is a theory unproven and I can't see it ending the world, only a "world as we know it".


----------



## tellner (Mar 7, 2007)

Blindside said:


> So if you believe the world is going to end (or really change) in 2012, do you believe that it was created in 3114 BC?  Because that is the beginning of the 13 baktun cycle.



That *was* the last time the Cubs won the pennant, so yeah. I do think the world will end in 2012 with the All-Chicago World Serie


----------



## matt.m (Mar 7, 2007)

Blindside said:


> So if you believe the world is going to end (or really change) in 2012, do you believe that it was created in 3114 BC? Because that is the beginning of the 13 baktun cycle. And if you are going to lend this much credence to Mayan mythology and their calenders, do you believe that it was created by three feathered serpents?
> 
> Incidentally, I think the world will end on December 31, 2008, cause thats when the calender in my Dayplanner runs out.


 

I have a few things to say......:rofl::lool:  and this cannot be true........Because Hulkamania will live forever brother.:hogan:


----------



## Zida'sukara (Mar 7, 2007)

According to the Mayas a new time will come for humans, a new fase for the souls. A new Dimension, in where the body and matrialistic thinking and time is not important anymore. This I have found out on this subject, I will try to get some links on it tomorrow when I have decend PC. (i am posting on a MDA Vario now, this is not comfortable and very slow)

It is nice to see your responses on this subject because some people started this conversation on another forum and they completely believe in it. They say we have less time to prepare our soul for it to make the transformation into this other dimension. 

I can still remember the Millenium change in the Netherlands. There was nothing to buy in the supermarkets anymore the week before as the whole town bought cans and supplies to survive for weeks because they believed in big problems during the millenium change. 

Which is very strange is that the mayas had so many knowledge which got lost and which is still not found. This makes the subject interesting and worth thinking about. I do believe that there is more than we think and that complete awareness of everything what is, will give us a lot of surprises. 

And I also think that the people are changing because a few religions for example are loosing members because people start thinking different and start to believe more in themselves. 

How do you people think about this changing, I like to hear about that. Have you thought and studied about this at all, is this of interest to you at all, did you also hear about it or do you think I am completely insane (You can tell me, its ok) I can always blame the Germans for it because of their influence.


----------



## Blindside (Mar 7, 2007)

Abafangool said:


> How do you people think about this changing, I like to hear about that. Have you thought and studied about this at all, is this of interest to you at all, did you also hear about it or do you think I am completely insane (You can tell me, its ok) I can always blame the Germans for it because of their influence.


 
"The distinctive human problem from time immemorial has been the need to spiritualize human life, to lift it onto a special immortal plane beyond the cycles of life and death that characterize all other organisms."
~ Ernest Becker


----------



## Shaderon (Mar 7, 2007)

I don't think you are completely insane, but I think that some of the things that the aincient civalisations have predicted have become a bit blurred in translation over the years.  

I myself am a spiritual healer, do chinese personality analyses, know more than one GOOD Shaman personally, and I know how to cast an energy spell. I have been spiritually told off for casting a spell in the past, but have succeeded in controlling the weather on many occasions, so you probably won't be surprised to hear that Metaphysics is one of my pet subjects.  The problem is, there are so many predictions, all very similar that I can't help feeling that many of these came from a similar source, the same way that many religions came from the same source and just diversified, and indeed the same way that many martial arts have come from the same source and evolved (or de-evolved as some see it  ) 

The end of the world is going to be a touchy subject in any language at any time, and we as a race refuse to believe in the concept even though many of us search for the answer to this question.   I believe that the predicted ends of the world, by any philosopher, psychic or whatever, are closely timed mainly because they came originally from the same source.  

Now if someone approached me in the street and said they were from a recognised relgious group and said the end of the world was coming I would hope that the men in white coats would catch up with them soon, but for people like the Mayans, I'd just hope that they got it wrong, because even the most seasoned future predicting person (can't remember the name of em... tip of me tongue... I'm always doing this... ) can get stuff wrong, especially when they are dealing with interpretations, such vast time ranges and the chinese whisper effects of scribes.    Ok so they got SOME things right, but they are only human as is the guy who read my palm a few years ago and HE got many things right but told me I would have 4 children.... the future isn't mapped out as far as I can see, you can see pretty much where it's going, but as for predicting the end of the world, or the ascension of souls to the 4th dimension....  well,  it can't happen all in one go, maybe the beginning of such a state of being would commence, but can you imagine getting all them souls to ascend at once?   The energy flow would be so immense it would upset the balance of life.

*looks around and realises "normal" people are listening*

Aherm.... I also kick and punch bags and have BLACK sparring gear ok?


----------



## evenflow1121 (Mar 7, 2007)

What is everyone so worried about, we still have 5 more good years left.


----------



## Shaderon (Mar 7, 2007)

evenflow1121 said:


> What is everyone so worried about, we still have 5 more good years left.


 

Right on!   Just enough time for me to get a nice solid 2nd Dan


----------



## heretic888 (Mar 7, 2007)

Abafangool said:


> According to the Mayas a new time will come for humans, a new fase for the souls. A new Dimension, in where the body and matrialistic thinking and time is not important anymore.



That statement would be more accurate if exchange "Mayas" for "New Age Boomers who project their metaphysical speculations backwards onto a Central-American civilization that in no way, shape, or form believed what they said they did".

This is similar to the people who say "Wicca" is really thousands of years old (actually, it was invented in the 1950's by a British anthropologist). New Agers just love to invent "ancient wisdom" among peoples (most often extinct) before the terrible, awful rise of modernity and "evil" reason. And, of course, they kindly project the values of reason and modernity --- equality, democracy, women's suffrage, abolition of slavery, personal freedom, and so on ---- onto people who had nothing of the sort.

Geez, next thing you know somebody's gonna start going on about Atlantis and aliens building the pyramids...


----------



## Blindside (Mar 7, 2007)

I was wondering when you were going to show up.


----------



## zDom (Mar 7, 2007)

What year is that meteor scheduled to hit or nearly hit earth?

I just saw a news report about it on CNN the other day ...


----------



## Bigshadow (Mar 7, 2007)

zDom said:


> What year is that meteor scheduled to hit or nearly hit earth?
> 
> I just saw a news report about it on CNN the other day ...



I believe it was either 2010 or 2012.  Coincidence? LOL  I saw that article too.


----------



## CoryKS (Mar 7, 2007)

zDom said:


> What year is that meteor scheduled to hit or nearly hit earth?
> 
> I just saw a news report about it on CNN the other day ...


 
Say, maybe those Hale-Bopp guys were on to something?  Maybe they went to be with the Mayans!


----------



## exile (Mar 7, 2007)

Abafangool said:


> Which is very strange is that the mayas had so many knowledge which got lost and which is still not found.



See, my problem is that, if the knowledge was lost and hasn't been found... what makes you say there _was_ such knowledge? Remember in _Pirates of the Carribean_, when Jack Sparrow's fellow jailbirds near the beginning tell him about the Black Pearl, how there are stories about it travelling all over the world for the previous ten years raiding towns and leaving no one alive, and Jack raises his eyebrows and says, sardonically, `Wonder who'd be left to _tell_ those stories, then'. Same difficulty, eh?


----------



## Jenna (Mar 7, 2007)

I find all this stuff an interesting diversion.. at the end of the day though the old guy in the centre of town with the sandwich board proclaiming The End of the World is Nigh, is right - for me that is widely misinterpreted as religious rhetoric but is it not true insofar as for any one of us could kick the bucket tomorrow??   I know it is human nature but I think we are  kind of conceited to believe we will even be here in five years or whatever..  So there    Smile  
Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna


----------



## Zida'sukara (Mar 7, 2007)

heretic888 said:


> This is similar to the people who say "Wicca" is really thousands of years old (actually, it was invented in the 1950's by a British anthropologist). .



Well I dont think this is not true, wicca is the most religious part of the witchdom. They truly believe in a gods and goddess. Witches sometimes believe in them but not necessarily, one thing that they do believe is everything that is.

Raymond Buckland stated it very good. ancient people believed in a god of the hunt, this was the horned one. They believed in it because this god would bring them food. Many years later, many other gods came, god to be fruitile(hope i spell this right) and so on. These are ancient gods, very logical gods as all people needed something to keep them from getting insane. After that some people forced them into christianity. Their temples were ruined and churches were build on top of them as the same people that believed in their ancient gods were used as slaves, they put something to christianity that was still something from themselves, one example is the star which we see and use on christmas. 

Indeed this believe is spreading very fast and most of the time only because it is almost fashion. young people feel attached to it and think they are in the "series". Ofcourse this is rediculous but these people will find their path. I am not into this religion but I do think a lot of their thoughts are right. Like their feeling of nature, we have lost this feeling, we do not listen to the voices of the forest but the forest can tell us a lot. This is the reason why I am interested in their believes. I do not believe in any god or goddes, I think our souls must learn from body to body but I think we can learn some lost knowledge from the wiccan.

A part out of the life of an Abafangool, the eternal student.


----------



## Xue Sheng (Mar 7, 2007)

Boy are we all going to look silly if 1 nanosecond after midnight on new years eve 2011 to 2012 if the world just goes POOF and disappears in a puff of logic.


----------



## Blindside (Mar 7, 2007)

Xue Sheng said:


> Boy are we all going to look silly if 1 nanosecond after midnight on new years eve 2011 to 2012 if the world just goes POOF and disappears in a puff of logic.


 
Speak for yourself, apparently I'm going to be a transcendental being who is beyond such petty materialistic thinking....


----------



## exile (Mar 7, 2007)

Abafangool said:


> I think we can learn some lost knowledge from the wiccan.



I _hate_ being a pain in the ***, I really do. But (as per my previous post)since, as reported in Wikipedia,  Wiccan `theology' is less than 100 years old, just how is any `lost' primaeval knowledge going to come from it? 

There is one surprising bit of lost knowledge we may get from the founder of Wicca, however. Gerald Gardner, the colonial civil servant Heretic mentioned, published a book about traditional Malaysian weapons and MAs in the middle 1930s. He was something of an expert on them, and his book is, so far as I know, well-regarded by ethnologists. So he's not totally irrelevant to the dedicated focus of the board!


----------



## Sukerkin (Mar 7, 2007)

Whilst the Maya do indeed seem to have vanished from history rather weirdly (thus rather dampening credability as master pre-destinators (made-up word?)) their calandar is an interesting subject for study, particularly as, as far as I am aware, it does not simply form an endless cycle as our (post-Gregorian) methods do.  I may be mis-remembering as it's been quite a while since I read about this but I think the mayan cycle is a linear, one shot, deal with a defined beginning and end, whereby a complete spiritual evolution is supposed to become evident.

I might have to have a dig into this, given that I've mentioned the 2012 'end of time' datum myself a time or two in fora {and been peppered with *Heretics* Darts of Sarcasm for daring to :lol:} as I'm vastly better read on English and Japanese history compared to the odd factlet I know about South American cultures.

Anyhow, worry not, doomsday is on it's way, regardless of date.  We're appreciating that climate change is afoot, with all the problems that will cause but on top of that we have the polar inversion (also currently underway, get out your Factor 5 Million sun lotion), asteroid impact, super volcanoes, oil stocks depletion, super diseases, plastic eating microbes, nano-tech machine plagues et al.

Plenty to fear, not many solutions ... so do what all martial artists naturally learn as they train.  Deal with what you can .


----------



## Blindside (Mar 7, 2007)

Sukerkin said:


> Whilst the Maya do indeed seem to have vanished from history rather weirdly (thus rather dampening credability as master pre-destinators (made-up word?)) their calandar is an interesting subject for study, particularly as, as far as I am aware, it does not simply form an endless cycle as our (post-Gregorian) methods do. I may be mis-remembering as it's been quite a while since I read about this but I think the mayan cycle is a linear, one shot, deal with a defined beginning and end, whereby a complete spiritual evolution is supposed to become evident.


 
It has been a long long time since I had my Mesoamerican anthropology class, but I seem to recall that there were some indicators of previous baktun cycles on some of the stela, maybe as many as five.


----------



## Sukerkin (Mar 7, 2007)

Ah, I knew I tried to cram too much into too few sentences .  What I was badly expressing is that the calendar we know is for the current spiritual evolution.  Each iteration of spiritual evolution supposedly has it's own tally.

Of course, I haven't had the benefit of actual tuition in the subject, so I'm perfectly happy to accede to your superior information on this as my knowledge is from a fairly casual interest.  

Admittedly, desperate to salvage some credability, my reading was pre-internet, so I managed to avoid my initial impressions being affected by much of the 'fringe' stuff that has come out since.  However, that also means that I've missed any developments in the core studies too (such as linguistics for one).


----------



## Steel Tiger (Mar 7, 2007)

OH MY GOD!!!!

What is that bizarre thing that is supposed to represent the baktun of the Mayan Long Count Calender?  Where did the names of the Baktun come from?  I have a pretty good idea.  It starts with new and ends with age.  I wish these psuedo-spiritualists and aura-mummers would leave things they don't understand alone.

Having got that off my chest, the Mayan calender, like all those from Mesoamerica, are cyclical.  So this particular version, which anthropologists call the Long Count, started about 3100 BC and ends in AD 2012.  Does this mean the end of the world?  Well yes.  The Maya, Aztecs, Toltecs and others believed that there had been a number of worlds before this one and that this one would also eventually end.  The main reason for human sacrifice was to keep the world going.  But the gods would create a new world for their people.

Unfortunately, the Mayan calendrical cycles and culture in general were disrupted by the arrival of the Spanish so we can never know what they were intending to do about the future, if anything.


----------



## MA-Caver (Mar 7, 2007)

Well, I saw a history channel program not too many days ago talking about the same thing... kept thinking to myself... "should stick to my own beliefs and what it says in the bible... That no man knoweth the hour except the Father..." so they can go on all about that all they want... anybody remember the catastrophies predicted for Y2K? Boy, * that *turned out pretty accurate didn't it?


----------



## Xue Sheng (Mar 7, 2007)

Steel Tiger said:


> OH MY GOD!!!!
> 
> What is that bizarre thing that is supposed to represent the baktun of the Mayan Long Count Calender? Where did the names of the Baktun come from? I have a pretty good idea. It starts with new and ends with age. I wish these psuedo-spiritualists and aura-mummers would leave things they don't understand alone.
> 
> ...


 
Thank you for this I cqn't even figure out how to read the thing

I know little (very very little - and that is an over statement) about Mayan calenders but I was wondering where the House of Shang (I'm guessing not a Mayan name) with the Taiji came from and of course the mushroom cloud at the end.


----------



## Sukerkin (Mar 7, 2007)

MA-Caver said:


> ... anybody remember the catastrophies predicted for Y2K? Boy, *that *turned out pretty accurate didn't it?


 
Worked out pretty well for me - nice couple of grand bonus for being on stand-by cover just in case any of our systems went squeeky-pop-boom!

The only downside was being the only sober person in the room on New Years Eve ... .


----------



## Steel Tiger (Mar 7, 2007)

Xue Sheng said:


> Thank you for this I cqn't even figure out how to read the thing
> 
> I know little (very very little - and that is an over statement) about Mayan calenders but I was wondering where the House of Shang (I'm guessing not a Mayan name) with the Taiji came from and of course the mushroom cloud at the end.


 
This reminds me of an interesting little piece of psuedo-anthropology done in China a few years ago.  It was discovered that during the Qin dynasty an expedition of ships was sent out into the Pacific never to return.  Now some clever fellow has taken the word indian (as in native American) chopped it up and come up with In Di An.  This he claimed was some reference to the people if Qin.  Isn't that cool.


----------



## Xue Sheng (Mar 7, 2007)

Steel Tiger said:


> This reminds me of an interesting little piece of psuedo-anthropology done in China a few years ago. It was discovered that during the Qin dynasty an expedition of ships was sent out into the Pacific never to return. Now some clever fellow has taken the word indian (as in native American) chopped it up and come up with In Di An. This he claimed was some reference to the people if Qin. Isn't that cool.


 
That is interesting and yes pretty cool, but I have not heard that one.

I did read once (and I beleive they might have mentined it on teh History Channel too), and this is a long story I will try and keep short, that during the end of the Qin dynasty that a (for lack of a better word) Duke of Qin formed a small kingdom, possibly on Japan.  

The First Emperor Qin Shi Huang sent a lot of people of looking for the floating islands to get the elixir of life. One he sent was this Duke who knew if he returned and said "nope can't find them" he was going to die. So he returned and said he found them but the inhabitants demand, gold, women, and he would also need soldiers should they refuse. Qin Shi Huang gave him the whole nine yards and this Duke sailed off, never to return. It has been speculated that he made his own little dynasty in North Japan.


----------



## Steel Tiger (Mar 7, 2007)

Xue Sheng said:


> That is interesting and yes pretty cool, but I have not heard that one.
> 
> I did read once (and I beleive they might have mentined it on teh History Channel too), and this is a long story I will try and keep short, that during the end of the Qin dynasty that a (for lack of a better word) Duke of Qin formed a small kingdom, possibly on Japan.
> 
> The First Emperor Qin Shi Huang sent a lot of people of looking for the floating islands to get the elixir of life. One he sent was this Duke who knew if he returned and said "nope can't find them" he was going to die. So he returned and said he found them but the inhabitants demand, gold, women, and he would also need soldiers should they refuse. Qin Shi Huang gave him the whole nine yards and this Duke sailed off, never to return. It has been speculated that he made his own little dynasty in North Japan.


 
Now that's a man who knew how to think through a sticky situation.


----------



## crushing (Mar 7, 2007)

MA-Caver said:


> ... anybody remember the catastrophies predicted for Y2K? Boy, *that *turned out pretty accurate didn't it?


 
Yeah, the people making those predictions didn't have any faith in the people and organizations putting a lot of time and money into fixing the Y2K bug.  I think those 'sky is falling' people became meteorologists.  They now think everytime we get some snow or a heavy rain it's the storm of the century and have to put radars pics and warning crawls across your local TV channels.

You may experience some hiccups this coming Sunday morning.  Major software vendors were still rolling out DST patches and fixes to their patches this week.


----------



## Carol (Mar 7, 2007)

Sukerkin said:


> Worked out pretty well for me - nice couple of grand bonus for being on stand-by cover just in case any of our systems went squeeky-pop-boom!
> 
> The only downside was being the only sober person in the room on New Years Eve ... .



Y2K was veddy veddy good to me too.    There was certainly quite a bit of hype surrouding the situation but I think many reasons why everything went well was because a lot of companies did testing of their systems and hired folks that worked their butt off trying to close holes in code. 

A team at my company has been working in a similar frenzy trying to get as Daylight Savings Time patch debugged and deployed out to our American customers.  Sounds trivial on paper but in practice...it's really not.  Maybe we need a crack engineering squad to work out y2012 bugs


----------



## zDom (Mar 7, 2007)

Sukerkin said:


> nano-tech machine plagues et al. ...



You referring to "Ceres Storm" by David Herter? Or some other sci-fi book I haven't read?


----------



## Shaderon (Mar 8, 2007)

Carol Kaur said:


> Y2K was veddy veddy good to me too.  There was certainly quite a bit of hype surrouding the situation but I think many reasons why everything went well was because a lot of companies did testing of their systems and hired folks that worked their butt off trying to close holes in code.
> 
> A team at my company has been working in a similar frenzy trying to get as Daylight Savings Time patch debugged and deployed out to our American customers. Sounds trivial on paper but in practice...it's really not. Maybe we need a crack engineering squad to work out y2012 bugs


 

At least I know my 1990's programming time didn't go to waste... I was one of them people who PUT the holes in the code with orders from my boss, when I asked him "why don't we fix this now instead of firefighting closer to the time?" I was told "We want to have jobs in the future, just do it as I say".    Charmer huh?

Sorry people!  I was one of them who caused the sober but lucrative milleniums


----------



## Sukerkin (Mar 8, 2007)

Shaderon said:


> Sorry people! I was one of them who caused the sober but lucrative milleniums


 
:lol: I don't know whether to thank you or not !  Still, I've worked hard at making up for that enforced sobriety since, so alls well that ends well  :tup:.


----------



## Sukerkin (Mar 8, 2007)

zDom said:


> You referring to "Ceres Storm" by David Herter? Or some other sci-fi book I haven't read?


 
I wasn't thinking of any non-science publication on this one, tho' I wouldn't be surprised if there hasn't been fiction on the idea ... in fact, I now recall reading "Blood Music" many moons ago (and I suppose "Trillions" was sort of a prophetic little book as nano-tech wasn't even theoretical back then (when I was a pre-teen)).


----------



## CoryKS (Mar 8, 2007)

Carol Kaur said:


> Y2K was veddy veddy good to me too.


 
Me too!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Overtime... gooood.


----------



## tradrockrat (Mar 9, 2007)

OK guys - this subject is a favorite of mine because I've always been fascinated by history and the Mayans are a wiked cool society (fun as hell to study!)

Fact:  The Mayan Calender ends on December 21, 20012.

Fact: the mayans were obsessed with time and calenders (thay actually had 14 major calenders they used for daily living)

Fact: the main calender (and cause of all of this hoppla) is more astronomically accurate than our own.

Fact: the Mayn calender predicted the year and month of the end of their own empire (weird but true).  the story was of the white bearded God that would come and destroy them.  In that exact month and year, the Spaniards arrived.  this little tidbit is supposed to "prove" the validfity of the end of the world

Fact: NOWHERE in traditrional Mayan beliefs does it state thet the ACTUAL WORLD will end.  That new age crap is from a guy and his book called "The Mayan Factor".  He is a fraud and a charlatain and is disavowed by every Mayan Shaman on the planet.  The actual belief is that the world will forever be altered - signifigantly - by the events leading up to and caused by the astrological alignment of the solar system on Decmber 21, 2012 at approximately 10:10 at whatever they now call the international date line (didn't they recently change the name?  I can't remember)

Fact:  In late December, the earth will be directly between the sun and the center of our galaxy 

Fact:  THere is a small black holw at the center of our galaxy- the Mayans knew this, we figured it out a few years ago.

Fact: The Mayan culture did NOT disappear.  It was destroyed, but because they believed in their calender, Mayan Shaman had left the cities several months before the Spanairds arrived with more than 17 Codecise (their version of writting) and hid in caves and other innacessible places until they slowly reintegrated thamselves into other villages and such.  We westerners have relied on one main historical source for our information on the Maya for several hundred years - a book written by a Spaniard.  Meahwhile, outside of the book, the Mayan teachings survived.  I beleive we now have 13 codices validated as authentic besides the one that was claimed to be the last by the spaniard and his book.

Fact - there are several prophecies of doom centered around December 2012 - that's why it's getting such great press.  Some quack even "decoded" the I-ching and showed that it represented a calender of soprts that ends in December 20012.

Now then - I'm not a believer, but I do love the hype!  I find it more fun than a good movie.

In fact, I highly recomment the rather hystrerical (pun intended) book "Apocaltpse 2012" by Lawrence E Joseph.  Several times in Barnes and Noble I actually burst out laughing at sections - and not always at the parts he intended to be funny...

http://www.apocalypse2012.com/book/


----------



## Xue Sheng (Mar 9, 2007)

It's the end of the world as we know it.
It's the end of the world as we know it.
It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine.



Sorry I could restrain myself no longer and I just had to post that here.


----------



## jks9199 (Mar 9, 2007)

exile said:


> I _hate_ being a pain in the ***, I really do. But (as per my previous post)since, as reported in Wikipedia, Wiccan `theology' is less than 100 years old, just how is any `lost' primaeval knowledge going to come from it?
> 
> There is one surprising bit of lost knowledge we may get from the founder of Wicca, however. Gerald Gardner, the colonial civil servant Heretic mentioned, published a book about traditional Malaysian weapons and MAs in the middle 1930s. He was something of an expert on them, and his book is, so far as I know, well-regarded by ethnologists. So he's not totally irrelevant to the dedicated focus of the board!


 
That's my biggest problem with a lot of these "revived ancient religions."  Somebody basically cobbled what they interpreted as the (cue the appropriate ominous voice, please) "ANCIENT WISDOM" together from a mish-mash of mythology and archeology (if you're lucky)...

Sorry, unless you can explain why your "ancient faith" was so well hidden that not a single practitioner was even hinted at... and there are no ancient scrolls/manuscripts/whatever to support it... It's probably not true. 

(Kind of like a lot of these "super secret family hidden martial arts.")


----------

