# non yip man lineages of wing chun



## southern fist (May 29, 2014)

Does anyone know of any non-Yip Man lineages of Wing Chun. I am in Midwest part of US.
Thanks.


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## wtxs (May 29, 2014)

southern fist said:


> Does anyone know of any non-Yip Man lineages of Wing Chun. I am in Midwest part of US.
> Thanks.



Kind of hard to help you on this ... Midwest cover an BIG slice of US.  Try narrow down to an city/state.


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## southern fist (May 29, 2014)

wtxs said:


> Kind of hard to help you on this ... Midwest cover an BIG slice of US.  Try narrow down to an city/state.



Kentucky...willing to travel a bit


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## Marnetmar (May 29, 2014)

I can give you some non YM lineages to look for if you'd like, but I have no idea where they'd be taught at.


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## geezer (May 29, 2014)

southern fist said:


> Does anyone know of any non-Yip Man lineages of Wing Chun. I am in Midwest part of US.
> Thanks.



"Non Yip Man" covers a lot of ground. What is your interest here? Curiosity? Something even more esoteric to study? In short, what are you really looking for?


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## southern fist (May 29, 2014)

geezer said:


> "Non Yip Man" covers a lot of ground. What is your interest here? Curiosity? Something even more esoteric to study? In short, what are you really looking for?




I suppose you can say I am looking for a more internal version of wing chun. I would love to see what it looked like before the Yip Man "evolution".
I am particularly interested in what wing chun was like before it was split into the 3 different forms.


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## geezer (May 29, 2014)

southern fist said:


> I suppose you can say I am looking for a more internal version of wing chun. I would love to see what it looked like before the Yip Man "evolution".
> I am particularly interested in what wing chun was like before it was split into the 3 different forms.



Well there's a lot of debate over the origins of WC. Some of the related mainland lineages may be of interest. On the other hand there are also a lot of frauds out there ....yes, even in China, and even more here in the States. So be cautious in your investigation. If you want really early stuff, you may go back even further to look at crane boxing (Yongchun bai he /wing chun bak hok).

I really can't help much. I am very content with the Yip Man lineage I practice. Good luck to you.


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## Marnetmar (May 29, 2014)

southern fist said:


> I suppose you can say I am looking for a more internal version of wing chun. I would love to see what it looked like before the Yip Man "evolution".
> I am particularly interested in what wing chun was like before it was split into the 3 different forms.



If you're looking for a more internal version of WC I'd recommend the Pan Nam style. If you want the style before it was split into three forms, it's difficult to say if that era actually existed, as the only styles that have more than three forms are the Chan Wah Shun/Chan Yiu Min style and the Lo Family style practiced by guys like Andreas Hoffmann, which is actually a hybrid of Wing Chun and Hung Gar anyway. As far as I can tell, any other style that has more than three empty hand forms _and claims to be older_ is BS-ing you. 

However, with the pre "Yip Man evolution" issue, it may interest you that styles before him use the hand movements at the beginning of the Biu Jee form in the beginning of all their forms.


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## Eric_H (May 30, 2014)

southern fist said:


> I suppose you can say I am looking for a more internal version of wing chun. I would love to see what it looked like before the Yip Man "evolution".
> I am particularly interested in what wing chun was like before it was split into the 3 different forms.



Lol, I still don't buy the ridiculous one form theory.


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## mook jong man (May 30, 2014)

Eric_H said:


> Lol, I still don't buy the ridiculous one form theory.



Exactly , each form builds on the one that came before.
But with the addition of new theories and concepts that have to be internalised and assimilated.

Expecting a student to learn it all in one form would be counter productive in the extreme.


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## Danny T (May 30, 2014)

Agree with Eric_H & Mook.
If Ip Man changed the forms, I question how is it that Jiu Wan's forms are very similar to Ip's. Jiu Wan came out of China years after Ip Man had. I don't believe Jiu Wan would have changed after many years of training and instructing just because Ip had. Their history's of WC are also the same.


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## Eric_H (May 30, 2014)

Danny T said:


> Agree with Eric_H & Mook.
> If Ip Man changed the forms, I question how is it that Jiu Wan's forms are very similar to Ip's. Jiu Wan came out of China years after Ip Man had. I don't believe Jiu Wan would have changed after many years of training and instructing just because Ip had. Their history's of WC are also the same.



Aside from the fact that even non-yip, sometime not even Wong Wa Bo lines have the three forms too kind of makes it suspicious that it was a later change.


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## southern fist (May 30, 2014)

Eric_H said:


> Lol, I still don't buy the ridiculous one form theory.




Why so far fetched?  If tai chi has but one form, couldn't early wing chun have had one form as well?


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## Marnetmar (May 31, 2014)

Eric_H said:


> Lol, I still don't buy the ridiculous one form theory.



Some WC lineages like Kulo WC have a form called Sam Bai Fut that seems like a combination of the three but it does seem a bit counter-intuitive. Plus, the Yuen Kay San lineages and Pan Nam lineages which are both on opposite sides of the "Leung Jan spectrum" so to speak have the three empty hand forms.


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## geezer (May 31, 2014)

southern fist said:


> Why so far fetched?  If tai chi has but one form, couldn't early wing chun have had one form as well?



I guess that depends on what you suppose the origins of Wing Chun to be. If it evolved out of southern shaolin fist, or perhaps old White Crane etc. ....those systems had many complex forms. In that case Wing Chun represents a movement to _simplify_ and focus on accomplishing more with less. Yip Man's Wing Chun continues in this vein. So _if_ this is the course of development of WC, then it went from more forms to less, rather than from one original form to three. This is my viewpoint.


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