# pain during drills/chi sao



## Ric Flair (Nov 13, 2005)

I have a lot of arm/muscle pain when i do a bong or a tan during Chi Sao.  This occurs when i switch from Bong to a tan and vice versa.  I eventually get heavy and feel a lot of numbness or pain plus, eventually a good Wc artist or senior would be able to create openings with me and strike.  Is this normal? and what can i do?

I am still practicing single handed Chi Sao too but, most people in my school are beyond that and focus mostly on double handed Chi Sao.  They seem too bored to do single with me.  i feel the need to improve my single handed Chi Sao b4 continuing on with double handed.  

Si Lum Tao every morning has helped a bit too.  Though i need more directions in regards to applying Si Lum Tao with everyday Wing Chun activities.


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## terryl965 (Nov 13, 2005)

I do not do wing chung but it sounds like your muscle need a break, every person has to give some time in preforming new drill for muscle to get use to the new drills. Nothing a little time of and pre-workout warm ups will take care of hopefully. If the pain is to strong go have it checked out with a doctor.
Terry


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## bcbernam777 (Nov 14, 2005)

Ric Flair said:
			
		

> I have a lot of arm/muscle pain when i do a bong or a tan during Chi Sao. This occurs when i switch from Bong to a tan and vice versa.


 
Welcome to the wonderful world of Wing Chun, the good news is that what you are going through is perfectly normal, it simply means that you havent learnt yet how to loosen your shoulder. This is a process that differs for different people, for me it took well over 18 months before I started to loosen the shoulder, now I havent fully loosened it, it is an ongoing process until it is fully loosened, so you are just going to have to be patient and determined.




			
				Ric Flair said:
			
		

> I eventually get heavy and feel a lot of numbness or pain plus, eventually a good Wc artist or senior would be able to create openings with me and strike. Is this normal? and what can i do?.


 
the heavyness just means that youre muscles are tired, and that they are starting to run on lactic acid, and it probably means you are substituting gross motor functions, and in all probabilty are "destructing" your technique (ie utilising bad technique), at this point dont try and push through as yu will only set yourself back, as soon as you get this feeling tell your partner you need a break, and relax for a few minutes.



			
				Ric Flair said:
			
		

> I am still practicing single handed Chi Sao too but, most people in my school are beyond that and focus mostly on double handed Chi Sao. They seem too bored to do single with me. i feel the need to improve my single handed Chi Sao b4 continuing on with double handed.


 
Dont worry about progressing to double Chi Sau, as it will help to improve the Dan Chi Sau, the main thing is that you need to Chi Sau, so talk to your Sifu, and see what they say.



			
				Ric Flair said:
			
		

> Si Lum Tao every morning has helped a bit too. Though i need more directions in regards to applying Si Lum Tao with everyday Wing Chun activities.


 
Do Sui Lum Tao twice a day, try to aim to do the first section as slowley as possible, concnentrating on the movement from the shoulder, not the elbow or arm, it should be like a wheel winding forward. Also make sure you have the proper stance. To apply the Sui Lum Tao in to the Chi Sau is the goal i.e to do you Chi Sau hands exactly the Same as you Sui Lum Tao hands, let the structure support the hands and dont try to push.


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## barriecusvein (Nov 14, 2005)

i would agree with bcbernam, it sounds like you just need to loosen your shoulders up. just keep training and you will learn how to. its something that only really can come from practice.just have faith and you'll get there!


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## 7starmantis (Nov 14, 2005)

Yeah, we do chi sau a bit different, but it sounds like bcbernam hit it on the head. Relaxing the shoulder or any part of the body is tough in my experience. It takes time and lots of practice. 

BTW, Nice avitar barriecusvein

7sm


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## Ric Flair (Nov 14, 2005)

Sometimes i feel pain in my knees too.  Seems this is one of my strong weaknesses. Pigeon Toe.


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## bcbernam777 (Nov 14, 2005)

Ric Flair said:
			
		

> Sometimes i feel pain in my knees too. Seems this is one of my strong weaknesses. Pigeon Toe.


 
Agin more time in Sui Lum Tao, it is because you are taking the wieght at your knees instead of utilising the whole stance, againg this will disipate after much practice, learn how to use the entire stance is something that is developed after many hours of extended practice of the Yee Jee Kim Yeung Ma


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## brothershaw (Nov 17, 2005)

Watch out for shoulder injuries have your teacher look at how you are doing your bong.


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## yipman_sifu (Jan 20, 2006)

Ric Flair said:
			
		

> I have a lot of arm/muscle pain when i do a bong or a tan during Chi Sao. This occurs when i switch from Bong to a tan and vice versa. I eventually get heavy and feel a lot of numbness or pain plus, eventually a good Wc artist or senior would be able to create openings with me and strike. Is this normal? and what can i do?
> 
> I am still practicing single handed Chi Sao too but, most people in my school are beyond that and focus mostly on double handed Chi Sao. They seem too bored to do single with me. i feel the need to improve my single handed Chi Sao b4 continuing on with double handed.
> 
> Si Lum Tao every morning has helped a bit too. Though i need more directions in regards to applying Si Lum Tao with everyday Wing Chun activities.


 
My friend, you are doing fine, Wing Chun is all relaxing, and it comes by training. and regarding those students who gets bored by doing Dan Chi, they may be worst than you when they had such training with one arm. I had the same problem when punching the wall bag. I used to get tired after 50 sets of punches, each set is 5 punches. what made me really asking myself was my instructor, his 50 set punch was stronger than my first set punch, he never got tired. I asked him how could I keep the punch strength and speed after many sets of punching, He told me the key word which was "Relaxing and overcoming the tense idea of a strong punch".

I forgot something: Regarding Si Lum Tao, the Bong sau and tan sau are passive movements, that is why it is better to train with a partner to feel such pressure in order to improve reflexes feeling functions of your elbows and knees in the stance.


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