# Martial Arts and the Law



## rdonovan1 (Feb 4, 2010)

I'm just wondering as to how many people here believe that congress should ban the martial arts completely. 

I'm sure that you've all heard the stories about the martial arts and I'm sure that you all know the general perception by lawmakers and the government of the martial arts and anyone that has anything to do with it at all. In the eyes of the lawmakers the martial arts and anyone who has anything to do with it should be banned because in their opinion the martial arts are dangerous and anyone that chooses to associate with the martial arts is just as dangerous and bad as Al Capone or Ted Bundy. 

Should in your opinion the government ban the martial arts and set forth laws making it a crime or should it be promoted as a character builder.


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## David43515 (Feb 4, 2010)

Lots of places have tried, but you can`t put the genie back in the bottle. Once knowledge is out there, it`s out there to stay.


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## Blindside (Feb 4, 2010)

rdonovan1 said:


> I'm just wondering as to how many people here believe that congress should ban the martial arts completely.
> 
> I'm sure that you've all heard the stories about the martial arts and I'm sure that you all know the general perception by lawmakers and the government of the martial arts and anyone that has anything to do with it at all. In the eyes of the lawmakers the martial arts and anyone who has anything to do with it should be banned because in their opinion the martial arts are dangerous and anyone that chooses to associate with the martial arts is just as dangerous and bad as Al Capone or Ted Bundy.
> 
> Should in your opinion the government ban the martial arts and set forth laws making it a crime or should it be promoted as a character builder.



I think your perception of the "general perception by lawmakers" is flawed.  I'd also dispute that the primary focus of martial arts should be about character building.


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## rdonovan1 (Feb 4, 2010)

David43515 said:


> Lots of places have tried, but you can`t put the genie back in the bottle. Once knowledge is out there, it`s out there to stay.


 
Lawmakers in the United States generally believe that the martial arts are bad and that anyone who is associated with the martial arts is nothing but a menace to society and that they should be locked up. That is and has been their position on the subject for a long time as they tend to believe what they see in the movies and what Hollywood says about the martial arts and anyone associated with the martial arts.

Lawmakers like most people tend to believe in the stereotypes and they generally don't want to hear anything else.


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## rdonovan1 (Feb 4, 2010)

Blindside said:


> I think your perception of the "general perception by lawmakers" is flawed. I'd also dispute that the primary focus of martial arts should be about character building.


 

What you just said in the last sentence is why lawmakers perceive the martial arts as bad. They get their information from Hollywood and as far as they are concerned Hollywood is right and you are wrong. 

There have also been a lot of newspaper articles and other incidents that have occured that have lead lawmakers to come to this conclusion and I seriously doubt that you are going to prove them wrong. What evidence can you offer to lawmakers that could change their minds and that could make them believe that the martial arts is nothing more than a bunch of hooligans and roughnecks out to create problems for society and for the government? 

One example of this belief that lawmakers have is the passing of laws in States like California making it illegal to buy, own or to even possess something like Nunchuku. Throwing stars are also outlawed in many localities as well. The government believes that stuff is associated with gang activity because of movies like 'The Warriors' and all of the other martial arts or gang related movies and because law enforcement has often found these types of weapons being used in gang fights in the possession of gangsters when they are arrested. 

The government like most people are assuming and stereotyping and they like most people are not likely to give up those perceptions very easily if at all.


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## David43515 (Feb 4, 2010)

rdonovan1 said:


> Lawmakers in the United States generally believe that the martial arts are bad and that anyone who is associated with the martial arts is nothing but a menace to society and that they should be locked up. That is and has been their position on the subject for a long time as they tend to believe what they see in the movies and what Hollywood says about the martial arts and anyone associated with the martial arts.
> 
> Lawmakers like most people tend to believe in the stereotypes and they generally don't want to hear anything else.


 
Funny, I thought that between Chuck Norris and Pat Morita most Hollywood MA movies showed the martial artist as the good guy. Heck, my wife used "Mulan" as part of a young womens` workshop she did at Church camp because it had such posative images of confident women.

Did you know that Jhoon Rhee used to teach TKD to several members of the House of Representatives and the US Senate when he lived in D.C.? I`m sure that several others have kids or grand kids involved in the arts.

You can`t seriously think that there`s any single issue that the vast majority of lawmakers agree on. (Besides wanting to be reelected of course.) Look at the voting record of the individual and the bills he or she has proposed or supported. That`s the only way you`ll know what any of them are thinking. You`ll never succeed in finding out what "all"of them are thinking.

Just out of curiosity, what made you think that the majority of lawmakers are against MA anyway? Did you see something in the news or have some kind of personal experiance with one who was?


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## K-man (Feb 4, 2010)

rdonovan1 said:


> I'm just wondering as to how many people here believe that congress should ban the martial arts completely.


I can't believe this to be a serious question.  In a country that allows you to carry guns and knives, you would even consider it illegal to fight with your hands?
 I'm sure I saw a big can of troll spray on another thread!!


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## Blade96 (Feb 5, 2010)

I believe anyone who wants to ban martial arts isnt understanding martial arts.

ah well - maybe i should go register my knife hand as a deadly weapon.


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## seasoned (Feb 5, 2010)

Ban the Martial Arts? More unemployment and loss of tax revenue? Maybe, but I don't think so.


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## rdonovan1 (Feb 5, 2010)

I really couldn't care as to whether they do or not anymore because many people have pointed out to me on this forum that if someone like the Bloods, Crips, GKB gang or the Hell's Angels were to come up to you and demand either your money or your life most people on this forum would simply tell them to take their life instead of their money. 

Based upon what people have said to me on this forum I really don't believe that anyone is really serious about the martial arts or any of the concepts of self defense to begin with as it is just easier to give in and to give up than it is to stand up and to fight for what you believe in and for what you believe to be right and there is certainly no shortage of The Bloods, Crips, GKB gang or Hell's Angels. 

Many of them have been in prison or jail before and most of them really couldn't care less as whether they go back to jail or not. 

I've tried to emphasize the importance of positive thinking and of standing up for yourself and your beliefs and to even defend yourself physically, verbally, mentally, emtionally, or even psychically, but instead of it being accepted and welcomed it has been criticized. 

That kind of thinking only adds more fuel to the fire for lawmakers to want to ban the martial arts altogether. Unless it makes them money, then why should the lawmakers give two hoots and a holler about the martial arts. All the politicians care about is themselves and as to how much money they can make off of something. 

That's been going on for years and it's the reason why so many people tend to think that politicians are corrupt. 

I don't know about anyone else here, but I sure as heck would love to have a job where I could just simply vote myself a higher salary everytime that I wanted to. That would certainly be a lot easier than working your butt off somewhere for minimum wage just so that the owner of the company can get richer while you get poorer. 

If the government passes this stimulus bill, then you can surely expect your taxes to go up to pay for it. At the rate that the government is going there won't be much of a government left as they are going broke faster than they can make it up and that's why they are always attacking the programs that are supposed to help the people as they figure that the people can afford to pay for their screw ups and mistakes. 

I've seen the same thing with large corporations as well. In this new bill it is proposed that big corporations can contribute to campaign funds for political candidates. 

If we thought that it was annoying right now to try to get good customer service from a corporation then it is only going to get worse after this bill passes as more and more companies are going to figure that they can just count on the government for their money instead of the money that you might spend to make your life better and easier. 

I don't know about anyone else here, but I for one am one of the people that have been on the receiving end of poor customer service by a company or by the government. To them you are nothing but a number and not a human being at all. I've seen tech companies for example that will often keep you on hold for over an hour just so that you can get any kind of technical support or assistance from them at all and I've seen some companies that won't even tell you their phone number.

I've also seen this with the government as well. 

I don't know about anyone else, but I for one appreciate it when a company that I do business with treats me like a human being instead of a number and does what they can to assist me with any problems or concerns that I may have. That to me is just good business and that is something that the government and most large corporations could take the time to learn if they had half a mind to do so. 

If I had my way then we would not only see more law enforcement officers out on the street, but we would also have more support from the government and from businesses in combating crime. That's if it were up to me, but unfortunately it's not.


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## Stac3y (Feb 5, 2010)

Considering that one of the black belts in my club is a judge...


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## rdonovan1 (Feb 5, 2010)

Stac3y said:


> Considering that one of the black belts in my club is a judge...


 
I hope that your friend is one of the types of judges that believes in prosecuting criminals to the full extent of the law.

I don't know about you, but I for one don't like the idea of criminals like The Bloods, Crips, GKB gang and Hell's Angels and others like them running around loose like I have seen them. 

My philosophy regarding groups like that is it's either him or me and I'm determined to win using any tactic or technique that I can to win the fight because I have seen it way too often and I know what they are capable of. 

When I'm not trying to find ways of protecting and defending myself I like to try to find ways of making new friends that I know are honest, trustworthy and reliable and given the choice I will walk away from a fight if I can, but if I am forced to fight then I will and I will use anything and everything at my disposal to win the fight.


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## Steve (Feb 5, 2010)

I haven't heard of any pending legislation or bills that address Martial Arts. Can you point us to these? This sounds like fiction to me.  Which "lawmakers?"   I'm going to need some specifics before I can even begin to have an opinion on this.  Or at least, to change my current opinion that this is paranoia combined with an overactive imagination.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Feb 5, 2010)

I have to echo what Stevebjj is saying.


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## Xue Sheng (Feb 5, 2010)

rdonovan1 said:


> Lawmakers in the United States generally believe that the martial arts are bad and that anyone who is associated with the martial arts is nothing but a menace to society and that they should be locked up. That is and has been their position on the subject for a long time as they tend to believe what they see in the movies and what Hollywood says about the martial arts and anyone associated with the martial arts.
> 
> Lawmakers like most people tend to believe in the stereotypes and they generally don't want to hear anything else.


 
umm.. you really need to give a source to support that one because this is not my expereince at all 



stevebjj said:


> I haven't heard of any pending legislation or bills that address Martial Arts. Can you point us to these? This sounds like fiction to me. Which "lawmakers?" I'm going to need some specifics before I can even begin to have an opinion on this. Or at least, to change my current opinion that this is paranoia combined with an overactive imagination.


 



Brian R. VanCise said:


> I have to echo what Stevebjj is saying.


 
I agree with Brian and I third what stevenbjj said


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## CoryKS (Feb 5, 2010)

rdonovan1 said:


> I'm just wondering as to how many people here believe that congress should ban the martial arts completely.
> 
> I'm sure that you've all heard the stories about the martial arts and I'm sure that you all know the general perception by lawmakers and the government of the martial arts and anyone that has anything to do with it at all. In the eyes of the lawmakers the martial arts and anyone who has anything to do with it should be banned because in their opinion the martial arts are dangerous and anyone that chooses to associate with the martial arts is just as dangerous and bad as Al Capone or Ted Bundy.
> 
> Should in your opinion the government ban the martial arts and set forth laws making it a crime or should it be promoted as a character builder.


 
I am intrigued and can you tell me how to apply this to the dating, mating, and relating world.


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## Steve (Feb 5, 2010)

For the hell of it, I did a quick search over at Thomas.gov to see whether there is a bill mentioning martial arts.  Turns out, there is one.  HR 1303, which is a bill to reduce the number of gun related crimes in high crime areas.

Martial arts are mentioned as one of 11 different after school programs supported in the section entitled (ironically enough):  Educational and Recreational Alternatives to Violence Programs.  Joining MA are other activities such as sports/athletics, nutrition classes, parenting classes and music/dance classes.


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## rdonovan1 (Feb 5, 2010)

stevebjj said:


> I haven't heard of any pending legislation or bills that address Martial Arts. Can you point us to these? This sounds like fiction to me. Which "lawmakers?" I'm going to need some specifics before I can even begin to have an opinion on this. Or at least, to change my current opinion that this is paranoia combined with an overactive imagination.


 
I'm surprised that you don't know anything about this as I kind of figured that everyone on this forum knew everything already.


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## Xue Sheng (Feb 5, 2010)

stevebjj said:


> For the hell of it, I did a quick search over at Thomas.gov to see whether there is a bill mentioning martial arts. Turns out, there is one. HR 1303, which is a bill to reduce the number of gun related crimes in high crime areas.
> 
> Martial arts are mentioned as one of 11 different after school programs supported in the section entitled (ironically enough): Educational and Recreational Alternatives to Violence Programs. Joining MA are other activities such as sports/athletics, nutrition classes, parenting classes and music/dance classes.


 
DAMN ERA!!!!  say it ain't so.. the government IS....ummm...well.... hey.... wait a minute.... that's a good thing....isn't it


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## CoryKS (Feb 5, 2010)

stevebjj said:


> For the hell of it, I did a quick search over at Thomas.gov to see whether there is a bill mentioning martial arts. Turns out, there is one. HR 1303, which is a bill to reduce the number of gun related crimes in high crime areas.
> 
> Martial arts are mentioned as one of 11 different after school programs supported in the section entitled (ironically enough): Educational and Recreational Alternatives to Violence Programs. Joining MA are other activities such as sports/athletics, *nutrition classes*, parenting classes and music/dance classes.


 
wtf? 

"Hey Jake, you wanna go kick somebody's ***?"

"Can't, man.  Gonna go learn about the food pyramid."


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## shesulsa (Feb 5, 2010)

So we have this:



rdonovan1 said:


> What you just said in the last sentence is why lawmakers perceive the martial arts as bad. They get their information from Hollywood and as far as they are concerned Hollywood is right and you are wrong.
> 
> There have also been a lot of newspaper articles and other incidents that have occured that have lead lawmakers to come to this conclusion and I seriously doubt that you are going to prove them wrong. What evidence can you offer to lawmakers that could change their minds and that could make them believe that the martial arts is nothing more than a bunch of hooligans and roughnecks out to create problems for society and for the government?
> 
> ...



And we have this:



			
				rdonovan1 said:
			
		

> Why would anyone want to waste their time on the martial arts when it is just easier to get a gun?
> 
> Wouldn't a gun be easier and faster?



Sir, I dub thee troll ... or ... manic.

Good day.


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## rdonovan1 (Feb 5, 2010)

CoryKS said:


> I am intrigued and can you tell me how to apply this to the dating, mating, and relating world.


 
Both the martial arts and the dating, mating and relating fields deal with people. If you don't understand people and how they think, act, feel, and believe then you how are you going to be successful at either one. 

Both also require that you have a good knowledge of things like body language and that you are confident enough in yourself to believe that you can accomplish anything you put your mind to. 

Stop and ask yourself as to how many Black Belts would have gotten to be Black Belts if they had just simply given up after the first time that they tried something new. Chances are none of them would have made it to Black Belt. You can't accomplish something new if you are afraid to try something new.

The body language aspect is also very important because when you are standing face to face against an opponent who wants to basically kick your *** just because he thinks he can. If you can't read his body language and predict what he might do then you are going to have no way of blocking his kick or punch. 

It's also important to believe that you can carry out that kick or punch and that you know how to do so. Sitting around talkling about how you can kick someone's *** just because you might have seen it on tv doesn't mean that you can do so in a real fight out on the street where it really counts. 

People may not like it at all, but the simple fact is that gangbangers like The Bloods, Crips, GKB gang, and even the Hell's Angels are out there and they really don't care about you. When they look at you they figure that you are nothing but a bug to be crushed and that is why you can't be displaying fear to them. You need to know that you can not only handle any attack that they might throw at you, but also to be able to have the courage and gumption to stand up to them and to be willing to defend yourself if need be with deadly force. 

Whether we like it or not out on the street the mentality is kill or be killed. Some people are and will just simply be misguided and will not really pose much of a threat to you. In those situations you can and you should try to de-escalate the situation using things like influence, persuasion and other conflict management skills up to and including humor as those people generally are not really much of a threat to you.

You also need to know how and when to use deadly force if need be against someone that might be armed and intent on killing you. If you don't know that then you have no way of really defending yourself when it truly matters. Everything is based upon the intent of the attacker and the type of attack. Simple common sense says that you are not going to shoot someone just because they call you a name that you might not like. Doing so would make you guilty of murder in the eyes of the law and you would be tried and convicted of murder. 

If however someone were to break into your house while you are home and threating you or your family or if they were to use something like a gun or a knife then you would be justified legally in using deadly force depending on where you are at and what the local laws say. 

In most states you have the legal right to defend yourself and to even kill someone if someone enters your home and causes you to fear for your life. That is called the Castle Doctrine under the law and in most cases you would be aquitted of any and all charges of murder. 

Some places like the L.A. area are not so kind to you. I once had a friend who lived in the L.A. area that told me about a case in which a burger broke into someone's house in that area while the people were home. The owners of the house shot and killed the burgler, but were arrested and charged with pre-meditated murder and they were sued by the burglers family. 

That is just an example of how crazy some of the laws can be. We also have a little thing that the Constitution of the United States of America and the Bill of Rights in which you have the legal right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. You are also supposed to be innocent until proven guilty in a court of law and you are supposed to have the right to remain silent. 

You are also guaranteed the right to free speech as well. This is all stuff that every American has been given by the founders of the United States of America and by lawmakers since then and even though there have been cases challenging it in court nine time out of ten those cases have been ruled unconstitutional by the Supreme Court. There have also been laws that Congress has passed that the Supreme Court has declared unconstitional. 

I don't know if anyone has ever really taken the time to look at the types of laws that they come out with, but some of them can be relatively downright stupid. One example of this is a law that pertains to the State of Minnesota. It's an old law, but one that is still on the books and is generally unenforceable. The law basically says that it is unlawful for someone to cross the border from Minnesota into Wisconsin with a chicken on their head. 

There are other laws like that which are just as stupid in other states. I however am not going to go chasing down those laws for people. That is something that yoiu will have to find on your one time using something like google.

I'm studying this because of a number of legal issues that I have encountered and because my father is an attorney and more than often I end up talking the law with him than anything else. 

I've tried to get him to understand as to how the martial arts has effected me and as to how I have gotten into it and even as to how it relates to the whole dating, mating, and relating thing but unfortunately he like most peopel will not listen because he thinks that he knows everything and can't admit the truth to either himself or to others.


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## CoryKS (Feb 5, 2010)

rdonovan1 said:


> Both the martial arts and the dating, mating and relating fields deal with people. If you don't understand people and how they think, act, feel, and believe then you how are you going to be successful at either one.
> 
> Both also require that you have a good knowledge of things like body language and that you are confident enough in yourself to believe that you can accomplish anything you put your mind to.
> 
> ...


 
I see. So as long as martial arts remain legal... I can has women?


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## rdonovan1 (Feb 5, 2010)

CoryKS said:


> I see. So as long as martial arts remain legal... I can has women?


 
Women factor into the picture. because they tend to expect you to protect them and to be the man. 

I don't know about you, but I don't know of too many women that find a coward and a wus attractive at all. Most women tend to feel that is a turn off and that is why it's important for people to learn to think positive and to be willing to stand their ground. 

It doesn't mean that you have to be a jerk about it. It does mean though that they do expect you to be a man and to be a gentleman. Being a gentleman doesn't mean that you have to be gentle. It just means that you have to be smart enough to be the man in the relationship. 

The martial arts is in my opinion an important aspect of that as it requires you to think on your feet and to always be aware of your surroundings. That's something that everyone that really knows the martial arts is taught. Awarenes of your surroundings is the first key of self defense and it is a legal requirement as well. 

Under the law if you study the martial arts you are considered a lethal weapon and as such you are required by law to always be in control of the situation. If you use too much force then the law can say that you used excessive force and if you use too little force then your opponent can and will take advantage of that. 

Everything in the martial arts, in life and with the law is about balance and about knowing both yourself and your opponent. If you are out of balance or if you don't really know either yourself or your opponent then you are sure to lose the fight. That principle has been discussed time and time again by people like Sun Tzu and Miyamoto Mushashi. 

One of the things that you have to stop and think about with the dating scene is as to whether or not the girl that you might be talking to has a boyfriend or a husband. Sometimes they will tell you that they do just to throw you off and sometimes they won't and in some situations you may end up coming across and meeting either a jealous boyfriend or husband that believes that you are trying to do something that you shouldn't and sometimes they may even just simply like to fight and may choose to pick a fight with you just to prove themselves. That kind of stuff can and does happen without warning and it is something to be aware of. 

There's also going to be times where the girl herself may be playing games with you for one reason or another. Sometimes she may be scammer, sometimes she is a player, and sometimes she is either taking drugs or just plain crazy. I've come across all of it before at one time or another and I still do to this day. I am however trying to stay away from the scammers, the drug adicts, and the crazies by as much as possible. The players I don't mind too much as that is just part of the game and that's why you need to keep your wits about you and it's also why you need to pay attention to the law as well because if you don't then you can get in trouble with the law big time and that is something that most people that I know of don't want as that can be one giant nightmare, especially in today's litigious society where you can be sued for just about any reason.

Through my own studies of the law I have learned that more and more the law is awarding large sums of money over the stupidest things. One case involved an 80 year old woman who was awarded over $1 million dollars because she spilled hot coffee on herself while at a McDonalds. The company knew that the coffee was 20 degrees hotter than most other places and did nothing to correct the issue and even though it was really her fault she won the lawsuit against the company under a claim of negligence on the part of the restaurant. 

Another case that I read about involved a group of Mexicans that crossed the border into the United States illegally. Several of their party died in the desert because they did not bring enough water with them. As a result they turned around and sued the United States Government for a lot of money and won because according to them the government should have known about this ahead of time and should have installed drinking fountains in the desert for them to use. 

I personally that is stupid and that it is the fault of the Mexicans as they should have known that it was the desert. That's just simple common sense. Most normal people know that the desert is hot and that there is no water out there and that you should take precautions to protect yourself from the elements. If you don't then that is basically your own fault for what happens as nature is not and will not care. Lack of simple common sense in some place like that is just not a valid defense against mother nature and whether we like it or not she can be pretty nasty when she wants to be as it's her world and her law that we all must abide by first and foremost. 

People that fail to remember that can and will be exterminated by mother nature herself and whether we like it or not there is nothing that we can say or do about it as her law is final. 

It's too bad that a lot of people just have not figured that out as of yet. I personally think that it's even funnier when so called martial artists haven't figured it out because it is part of just about every martial art that there is. It's especially true of the asian martial arts.


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## K-man (Feb 5, 2010)

rdonovan1 said:


> There's also going to be times where the girl herself may be playing games with you for one reason or another. Sometimes she may be scammer, sometimes she is a player, and sometimes she is either taking drugs or just plain crazy. I've come across all of it before at one time or another and I still do to this day. I am however trying to stay away from the scammers, the drug adicts, and the crazies by as much as possible.


I think you really should stay away from the crazies! The more you associate with them the crazier you become!! :erg:


> I'm surprised that you don't know anything about this as I kind of figured that everyone on this forum knew everything already.


We do! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			






> *Based upon what people have said to me on this forum I really don't believe that anyone is really serious about the martial arts* or any of the concepts of self defense to begin with as it is just easier to give in and to give up than it is to stand up and to fight for what you believe in and for what you believe to be right and there is certainly no shortage of The Bloods, Crips, GKB gang or Hell's Angels.


Great point. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 We're all tryhards and wannabees!


> Under the law if you study the martial arts you are considered a lethal weapon and as such you are required by law to always be in control of the situation.


 True! We all have our hands registered. How about you? BTW can you jog my memory? I'm not sure I've actually seen that legislation. I must remind my white belts how lethal they have become!


> If you are out of balance or if you don't really know either yourself or your opponent then you are sure to lose the fight.


 Applies to the mind as well! Don't forget to keep taking the tablets. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






> The law basically says that it is unlawful for someone to cross the border from Minnesota into Wisconsin with a chicken on their head.


 Sound advice. They probably read Nostradamus' predictions that said it was likely to happen about this time. BTW. How are your chickens? No swine flu in the flock I hope.


> I'm studying this because of a number of legal issues that I have encountered and because my father is an attorney and more than often I end up talking the law with him than anything else.
> 
> I've tried to get him to understand as to how the martial arts has effected me and as to how I have gotten into it and even as to how it relates to the whole dating, mating, and relating thing but unfortunately he like most peopel will not listen because he thinks that he knows everything and can't admit the truth to either himself or to others.


You father is a wise man! It's a pity you have not been more attentive grasshopper. 

In the past 24 hours I have read more crap than in the past four months total. We hang around this forum to discuss MA and if we don't have something to say we don't spurt drivell!
You have had 21 posts in the past 24 hours and not one has anything to do with martial arts. :asian:


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## shesulsa (Feb 5, 2010)

rdonvan ... how old are you?


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## rdonovan1 (Feb 5, 2010)

K-man said:


> I think you really should stay away from the crazies! The more you associate with them the crazier you become!! :erg:
> We do!
> 
> 
> ...


 

It's got everything to do with the martial arts because the martial arts is supposed to be all about things like strength, courage, and the wisdom of knowing when to fight and when not to fight. 

I don't know what things were like for you when you were growing up, but for me I had no choice but to turn to the martial arts for guidance and support because my father was never around for me and because I was always picked on by other kids and I am not the only one that has experienced stuff like that as Chuck Norris mention that in one of his books about his life. 

I've tried to run and hide from myself for a long time and I've tried to believe that I could out run and hide from it all, but that is just not very realistic at all. 

Because of the legal issue that I am currently dealing with and because of everything else that I have either studied or come in contact with I've been forced to deal with the concept of conflict resolution and self defense. 

This forum is supposed to be about that very topic. Unfortunately for some reason a lot of the people that I have so far encountered and talked to far seem to have other ideas about that. What good is the martial arts if you are afraid to stand up for yourself and to defend what you believe to be right and morally just. 

It also does no good to study any martial art if you are consumed by fear. It's one thing to teach people to defend themselves, but at what price does that involve. So what if you have a good spinning back kick. It's not going to make a bit of difference out on the street if you can't apply it.

I'm talking about the real world here. Not some made up fantasy stuff. 

If you don't have the proper mindset and attitude then no amount of physical training is going to do you any good. 

Just a suggestion, but the first couple of lessons that you should teach your students is how to think positive, be confident, believe in themselves and awareness. If you are not teaching them those basic skillsets then you are failing them as a teacher because none of what they learn from you is going to do them any good if they don't have those things down.

They should be learning the most basic lessons about what the martial arts is really all about before they even learn to punch or kick because if they don't have the proper attitude and mindset then they will either lose the fight or they will end up being bullies. The martial arts is supposed to be about self defense. It's not about who's right or wrong or who's better. 

They also need to learn how to focus and to pay attention to both the big picture and the details. If they are not learning that then they are not progressing and really earning the belts that are receiving. 

Unfortunately the martial arts community as a whole has become very commercialized and has lost focus of what the martial arts is truly all about. No days it's common to hear martial arts students say that their teacher can beat up so and so's teacher. Who really cares about who's teacher can beat up whose teacher. That is not the martial arts as it was originally intended. It was originally intended to protect life and limb not to go around acting like you are the villian from the Karate Kid movies. 

Mr. Miyagi was right in the movie 'The Karate Kid' that it does not matter what belt you have and it does not matter how big you are as a belt is only meant to hold up the pants and out on the street a belt is not going to make one bit of difference to someone who is intent on killing you. It's not what's around your waist that matters the most it's what you know and as to what your intent is. 

If the teacher is out of balance, then so shall the students. It's that simple. 

I can guarantee that if you were to hang around some of the people that I have met they are not and will not care about what you have around your waist or even as to who your teacher was. To them that makes no difference at all because they really could care less about that. 

Because of those people I have learned to not care about what belt you have or who your teacher is. The only thing that I care about is as to whether a certain tactic or technique really works out on the street in the real world against people whose only goal and purpose is to separate your head from your neck using any tactic or technique that they can and some of the people that I have met have been or are in things where it really does matter like law enforcement or the special forces. I've also met gangbangers who really could care less about whether you know this or that or who your teach was as many of them can and do carry guns and have heavy duty connections with professional gangsters, mercenaries, and any other sort of trash that you can think of. 

It's especially obvious in third world countries like Mexico and Nigeria where the government and the drug cartels rule. I don't know if you've ever seen any of them before, but I have and I know for a fact that they are not going to care about whether you just won some tournament somewhere. That means nothing to these types of people because they are thinking only about themselves and they are running on things like pure adrenaline, drugs, and or instinct. 

It's the age old survival of the fittest concept. People may not like it, but it is a jungle out there and it really does no good to hide from it because it can and will catch up to you at some point. That's why you have to have a better and stronger mindset than they do. If you don't you will lose for sure.


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## rdonovan1 (Feb 5, 2010)

shesulsa said:


> rdonvan ... how old are you?


 
Fair question. I'm 40 years old and I have seen and experienced quite a lot. What I have not experienced I have studied. 

When you bring experience and education together then you have true wisdom and that is something that all of the martial arts masters have been aware of for centuries. 

When it comes to things like the martial arts, business and the law I tend to have the mindset of a Marine. When it comes to things like love and having fun I am usually a lot more relaxed, but still guarded because I have been burned before on a number of occasions and because of that and what I have studied I have learned to take things with a grain of salt because you can never really be sure as to who are really dealing with unless you really know them and even then people can change at the drop of a hat. 

It's good to be optimistic about things, but it is not good to be so optimistic that you are naive about it. It's also not good to be too negative about things as that can and usually does backfire on you. The best approach is with caution and an open mind while at the same time being as positive and upbeat as you can be. 

It's also a good idea to constantly challenge yourself and to set new goals for yourself because if you don't then you tend to become stagnant and stale. You won't always have all the answers and you may disagree with people, but if you can't be flexible enough in both your behavior and mindset then you lose before you even begin.


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## shesulsa (Feb 5, 2010)

Dude, you spout an awful lot of stuff about idealism but never any truth.

What I see in your posts is a general disregard for other people who've been doing martial arts for a very long time and who have been through some serious ***** and you don't want to listen to their advice.  

So, Daniel-san ... I suggest you go find your own Miyagi ... but then when you start questioning him ... I wonder what he'll do ....

I'm gonna say that I don't think you intended this to be a discussion, rather a platform for your manifesto which you have been delivering to us piece by piece.

Your frames of reference are a few classic film stars and some mind-control kooks ... and you're telling US we aren't challenging ourselves?

Look ... I grew up in LA. I've been on the wrong side of a knife, a gun, and the hands of people who were supposed to love me.  I'm certified in Reiki, I've earned a black belt and I've seen less ***** than many others here who are giving you good advice.

If you're not finding what you want here, then you need to move on and keep on looking.  I'm done wasting time on you.


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## rdonovan1 (Feb 5, 2010)

shesulsa said:


> Dude, you spout an awful lot of stuff about idealism but never any truth.
> 
> What I see in your posts is a general disregard for other people who've been doing martial arts for a very long time and who have been through some serious ***** and you don't want to listen to their advice.
> 
> ...


 
I'm not talking about some clean room dojo stuff where everyone is given a few techniques to try out and if they don't work then it's ok.

I'm talking about the real world the way it really is. I'm not sugarcoating it to make it more palatable to people because the real world doesn't care about what one person thinks or feels. 

The street is a lot different than the dojo. In the dojo and in tournaments there are safeguards and there are certain rules that are supposed to be followed. Out in the real world there are no rules and I think that is something that a lot of people are forgetting.

Like most people I tend to prefer peace and I do respect the rules, but when it comes to the real world and real fights I chuck all of that out the window because it cannot and will not help me at all. 

Unlike a tournament there are no referees out in the real world to tell you when to stop and start. That's something that you have to know already because if you don't then your opponent can and will use that against you. 

Maybe you and other people don't take real world self defense very seriously, but I do because I have to deal with it every day. Where I live and where I tend to go there usually is no one around to help me with anything. I have to rely on myself to get things done and to deal with all of the things that I see and hear. Sometimes I meet some really nice and honest people, but often times I tend to run across people that really don't care about anyone other than themselves and for that reason I have learned to be hard and to not take their crap at all. 

Maybe you might have different ideas than I do, but when I am out and about and when I am dealing with people that I don't know and trust my mind is thinking about what I am going to do if someone like a gangbanger comes up to me with a knife or a gun. 

I try to be nice when I can, but when things like that happen you have to have the mindset of a warrior and you have to be willing and able to kill that person if it means either your life or his. If you are not congruent and if you show fear then they can and will pick up on that and will use that against you without any remorse or mercy. 

It's really not that hard to understand and that's why I tend to have trouble understanding as to why a lot of people on this forum tend to have trouble understanding and dealing with that properly. 

There's a big difference between being prepared and unprepared. 

Everything that I am talking about comes basically from experience. Living in one little city where you may know everyone is one thing, but when you travel to more than one city and when you deal with a lot of people that basically don't give a damn about anyone than themselves then you quickly realize that a lot of what is taught in most dojo's just is not up to par with the real world. 

Stop and think about it for a minute. Have you ever had one of your students deal with real gangbangers, criminals, and crazies in your dojo like the police deal with on a daily basis. Somehow I doubt it. I also tend to doubt that any of your students have to deal with large corrupt corporations either. 

As I've said before I did not come here to fight with anyone or to irritate anyone. I came here because at the moment I am dealing with a lot of unpleasant bs with people like I have just described in real world situations and because of that I have found that the only and best way for me to deal with that is to dig deep inside of myself and to dig out the warrior within me that does not hesitate to take action when needed and because of my previous exposure to the martial arts my best bet is the martial arts because that teaches things like how to deal with more than one attacker while at the same time maintaining your composure. 

The attacker does not have to always physical in nature as attacks can come in other forms as well and that is what the martial arts is supposed to teach. 

If people here really do know the martial arts then they should be able to understand as to where I am coming from and they should be able to help me to come up with some better defense strategies than I currently have as that would be a lot more productive than sitting around arguing all the time about stupid and useless things. 

I know that most people here can't do a thing to help me with the legal issues, but they can offer advice as to how to better deal with the verbal and psycholgical attacks as well as the physical and they can take the time to understand me a lot better instead of automatically judging me. That would be a lot more appropriate, productive, and civil. Assuming things just doesn't work at all. The only thing that does is to make asses out of both people. 

Simple common sense, courtesy, tact, and good people and communication skills and and usually do tend to work wonders.


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## shesulsa (Feb 5, 2010)

You don't read ANYTHING anybody else posts, do you?


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## rdonovan1 (Feb 5, 2010)

shesulsa said:


> You don't read ANYTHING anybody else posts, do you?


 
 I have, but instead of hearing positive things I have only heard negative things from people and quite frankly I don't have time for it as I have other more important things to deal with like trying to win the lawsuit that I am currently involved with, finding a different job in a bad economy, trying to start several different businesses, and of course trying to do things like play the dating, mating, and relating game with women while at the same time trying to prepare myself for one of the most challenging things that I will ever end up having to deal with. 

If my past is any indication of my future, then there is a good chance that I will probably end up seeing an ex-girlfriend that I once knew and loved and if I am understanding things corrently then there is a good chance that I am going to end up meeting the guy that she is currently with and that is something that I am going to have to deal with because if he is anything like a lot of people that I have met then chances are he is going to assume a lot of stupid things about me and will probably even want to fight me. 

I personally don't want to fight anyone if I can help it, but if push comes to shove then I will. Ideally any kind of physical confrontation that I might end up in I'll be able to deal with by simply moving out of the way and using the least amount of force possible but I just can't count on that at all. Between the two I am not really sure as to who is going to be worse him or her. 

In either case I am going to have to really think on my feet and I am going to have to really prepare for the unexpected as I really don't know as to what they are or will throw at me should I see them like I believe I will.


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## MJS (Feb 5, 2010)

rdonovan1 said:


> I'm just wondering as to how many people here believe that congress should ban the martial arts completely.
> 
> I'm sure that you've all heard the stories about the martial arts and I'm sure that you all know the general perception by lawmakers and the government of the martial arts and anyone that has anything to do with it at all. In the eyes of the lawmakers the martial arts and anyone who has anything to do with it should be banned because in their opinion the martial arts are dangerous and anyone that chooses to associate with the martial arts is just as dangerous and bad as Al Capone or Ted Bundy.
> 
> Should in your opinion the government ban the martial arts and set forth laws making it a crime or should it be promoted as a character builder.


 
IMO, the govt. should concern themselves with the things that they know, not things that they dont, such as the martial arts.  There are things that are not MA related, that're dangerous.....should the govt ban them as well?


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## MJS (Feb 5, 2010)

rdonovan1 said:


> Lawmakers in the United States generally believe that the martial arts are bad and that anyone who is associated with the martial arts is nothing but a menace to society and that they should be locked up. That is and has been their position on the subject for a long time as they tend to believe what they see in the movies and what Hollywood says about the martial arts and anyone associated with the martial arts.
> 
> Lawmakers like most people tend to believe in the stereotypes and they generally don't want to hear anything else.


 
And I can find a thousand other people who know nothing of the MAs, and think that they're bad.  I've had people ask me what I train in.  I tell them I train Kenpo, and they ask me if thats like TKD or like what Bruce Lee does.  

Its highly unlikely you, me or anyone else will change the views of people, so IMO, no sense in worrying about it.  Go about your training.


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## MJS (Feb 5, 2010)

rdonovan1 said:


> I have, but instead of hearing positive things I have only heard negative things from people and quite frankly I don't have time for it as I have other more important things to deal with like trying to win the lawsuit that I am currently involved with, finding a different job in a bad economy, trying to start several different businesses, and of course trying to do things like play the dating, mating, and relating game with women while at the same time trying to prepare myself for one of the most challenging things that I will ever end up having to deal with.
> 
> If my past is any indication of my future, then there is a good chance that I will probably end up seeing an ex-girlfriend that I once knew and loved and if I am understanding things corrently then there is a good chance that I am going to end up meeting the guy that she is currently with and that is something that I am going to have to deal with because if he is anything like a lot of people that I have met then chances are he is going to assume a lot of stupid things about me and will probably even want to fight me.
> 
> ...


 
Perhaps you're getting honest answers, but they're answers that YOU dont like!  IIRC, we've gone down this road with you, in past posts.  You departed here for a while, came back, and seem just as unhappy as you were before.


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## jks9199 (Feb 5, 2010)

Folks, 
What do relationship issues or something like 90% of the rest of this have to do with a potential law to outlaw martial arts?  There's been no documentation supporting that law...  Maybe we can return to it? 

Otherwise -- I'll lock this thread, too.


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## Blade96 (Feb 5, 2010)

NM. I was gonna reply to him but this guy seems like he's seriously out of his tree, sexist, and a waste of my time.


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## rdonovan1 (Feb 5, 2010)

jks9199 said:


> Folks,
> What do relationship issues or something like 90% of the rest of this have to do with a potential law to outlaw martial arts? There's been no documentation supporting that law... Maybe we can return to it?
> 
> Otherwise -- I'll lock this thread, too.


 
It has a lot to do with it because there are a lot of politicians out there that tend to believe what they see in the movies and as a result they like most people tend to make assumptions as to what the martial arts are really all about. It's a matter of perception just like it is with guns or cars and there are a lot of varying opinions as to what parts if any or all of the martial arts should be regulated because they tend to believe that if you train in the martial arts or even own martial art weapons they are a dangerous weapon. 

What they seem to forget is that it is all a matter of intent. The martial arts and the weapons associated with it are not in of themselves bad. 

A good analogy that one can compare it to is a gun. By itself is nothing more than an inanimate object. It can't jump up off the table and shoot you on it's own. In the hands of a someone that is properly trained in the use of a gun it can be used for self protection and food procurement, but in the hands of someone like a GKB gangerster it can can be used to kill someone.

How one trains in the martial arts and how one uses the martial arts is something that many legislators do not take into consideration because most of them really don't have much exposure to the martial arts and when they do hear of a negative story about someone who may have used the martial arts or a martial arts weapon in the wrong way they automatically tend to assume that everyone who has anything to do with the martial arts and that the martial arts itself is in and of itself bad.

Legislation has been proposed and passed relating to the martial arts for that very reason. It's not really much different than it is with the gun laws. The only difference is that unlike the gun laws you don't really hear about it as much as you do with the gun laws because the martial arts community is a smaller group than gun owners. 

Because of the training lawmakers tend to hold you more accountable for your actions than then they do of someone that has never studied it before. Some of their conclusions are based upon fact and some of their conclusions are based upon what the media tends to portray of the martial arts.

Contrary to popular opinion the martial arts is not merely just another way for two people to beat the crap out of someone else. If you look back at the history of the martial arts then you will come to realize that while it does have military connotations it is not necessarily military in nature as not everyone who practiced it was a solider. 

Some people like the Shaolin Monks believed in things like peace, harmony and spiritual, emotional and psychological growth and were generally a very peaceable people. To them the martial arts was meant to be a way of keeping the body healthy and in good shape.

The Ninja of ancient Japan tended to believe the same way. Unlike what the media tends to portray of the ninja where they are nothing but assassins their primary concern was to protect themselves, and their families from the Samurai. Yes, some of them did hire themselves out to do espionage and assassination activities, but they are in the minority and not the majority. The concept that the ninja being nothing more than assassins is a myth that has been perpetuated by Hollywood in order to increase sales. 

Anyone that has done any real study of the martial arts will also know that all of the (DO) versions of the martial arts were developed primarily for sport and spiritual development. That does not mean that they can't be effective on the street. It does however mean though that because of the sport aspect much of the more deadly stuff that was orginally part of the martial art was willfully and deliberately removed in order to make it safe for tournaments and things like that. 

That has had both a positive and a negative aspect. It's good for the tournament ring in that it makes it safer for the competitors, but it's also bad because it reduces it's effectiveness out on the street.

I personally have nothing against any of the DO versions, but when it comes to the street I tend to look more towards the versions that were orginally meant for combat and that have not been watered down or commercialized at all. That's why my first choice of martial arts is Ninjutsu and Special Forces type stuff as I know that stuff has not been turned into a sport like most of the other martial arts have and is therefore more effective out on the street or on the battlefield. 

That's how I tend to approach the whole thing. Other's may have other choices that they believe work better for them and that they like and I respect that. All I'm saying not to forget the street aspect and the real world because ultimately the real world is where things are at.


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## The Last Legionary (Feb 5, 2010)

Face it, Troll + Head up *** + Agenda here.


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## rdonovan1 (Feb 5, 2010)

The Last Legionary said:


> Face it, Troll + Head up *** + Agenda here.


 
I'm not a troll so don't start that with me. What I'm sayingis simple common sense as it applies to the street.

If you think that some mugger or rapist is going to stop and wait while you get into some karate stance out on the street then you are seriously deluded because that just doesn't happen. 

No one on the street is going to care what you study, who your teacher is nor are they going to sit and wait while you get into some Karate or Kung Fu stance and that is something that you need to stop and think about. 

You also need to stop and think about what the law is going to say as well because if you do use what you have been trained in out on the street in a real fight and assuming that you are successful at winning the physical fight you are still going to have to deal with the law and what they say as there is nothing to say that the person you just beat up is not going to go to the police and file assault and battery charges against you. That's just simple common sense and given whatever amount of training that you might have there is good chance that the law can and will prosecute you if you do not excersize good judgement when it comes to self defense and the law. If you don't believe that then you can ask any attorney or police officer about that.

That's not to mention the civil penalties that can be brought against you as well by either the person that you just beat up or their family.


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## The Last Legionary (Feb 5, 2010)




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## jks9199 (Feb 5, 2010)

OK... hints ain't getting through.  Let me be plain:
*
Attention all users:

Please return to the original topic.

jks9199
Sr. Moderator
*


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## rdonovan1 (Feb 5, 2010)

The Last Legionary said:


>


 
That's very, very rude and it's not appreciated at all.


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## rdonovan1 (Feb 5, 2010)

jks9199 said:


> OK... hints ain't getting through. Let me be plain:
> 
> *Attention all users:*
> 
> ...


 
I see a lot of potential lawsuits here because no one really wants to listen to reality and what the law says about the subject. 

It's kind of funny that way because it only reinforces what I have been saying about lawmakers and as to how they view the martial arts. 

Why give them more ammunition than they already have? Do people really want lawmakers to view the martial arts like they do guns? If that is the case then people can continue on the path that they are on. The only problem is that the law won't be very sympathetic at all because according to the law ignorance of the law is no excuse. That is the official position that the law takes and as far as the law is concerned it is not an excuse nor is it a legal defense to say that you didn't know the law.


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## MJS (Feb 5, 2010)

rdonovan1 said:


> I'm not a troll so don't start that with me. What I'm sayingis simple common sense as it applies to the street.
> 
> If you think that some mugger or rapist is going to stop and wait while you get into some karate stance out on the street then you are seriously deluded because that just doesn't happen.
> 
> ...


 
Dude, you're preaching to the choir here.  If I happen to be attacked, someone breaks into my house, etc., Im going to defend myself, plain and simple.  I'll respond accordingly to whats happening.  My main goal is my safety and that of anyone with me.  If the badguy wants to try to sue me, because HE attacked me, then so be it.  A fine upstanding citizen, with no criminal record (me) compared to some POS scumbag, with a record longer than my arm (the badguy)  Hmmm....who do you think the court will believe? 

Then again, nothing says that I'll be standing around, waiting for the PD to arrive.  

Again, I'll worry about the other stuff later....my first concern is myself. As to whether or not the govt, senators, politicians, or whoever, likes or dislikes the martial arts....frankly, I really dont give a rats behind.  Perhaps they should focus on some of the more important world issues, like the crappy economy that we are living with, rather than worrying about who is training in TKD, Kenpo or BJJ.


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## MJS (Feb 5, 2010)

rdonovan1 said:


> That's very, very rude and it's not appreciated at all.


 
Soooo,,,rather than just ignoring him, and moving on, you post a reply in similar fashion?  Yeah, alrighty then.  This thread will probably be closed in T-minus 9 seconds.

How about following the advise of the mod warning and returning to the original topic?


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## rdonovan1 (Feb 5, 2010)

MJS said:


> Dude, you're preaching to the choir here. If I happen to be attacked, someone breaks into my house, etc., Im going to defend myself, plain and simple. I'll respond accordingly to whats happening. My main goal is my safety and that of anyone with me. If the badguy wants to try to sue me, because HE attacked me, then so be it. A fine upstanding citizen, with no criminal record (me) compared to some POS scumbag, with a record longer than my arm (the badguy) Hmmm....who do you think the court will believe?
> 
> Then again, nothing says that I'll be standing around, waiting for the PD to arrive.
> 
> Again, I'll worry about the other stuff later....my first concern is myself. As to whether or not the govt, senators, politicians, or whoever, likes or dislikes the martial arts....frankly, I really dont give a rats behind. Perhaps they should focus on some of the more important world issues, like the crappy economy that we are living with, rather than worrying about who is training in TKD, Kenpo or BJJ.


 
That's generally how I tend to look at things, but I also am thinking about what the courts and the law is going to say because that is also very important as well.

My approach to crime and things like that is hard core as I'm not interested in being someone's victim at all. I have however noticed that because of the way that lawyers tend to approach things they have pretty much messed up the system.

According to one book that I read relating to the law which was written by a lawyer the legal profession is a sue for profit industry and more often than not the lawyers themselves have gone out of their way to protect their own self interests even to the point of showing nothing but complete and utter contempt for the courts.

I've also noticed that more and more police officers are basically violating the rights that we are supposed to have. 

The primary idea of this thread is the law and that should be the main topic, but it also does apply to the martial arts because both the law and the martial arts are very similar in nature. It's also important because bad apples and the media have left a bad taste in the mouths of lawmakers to the point where they have been paying more attention to the martial arts and that is all that it takes. 

Instead of giving them a negative image of the martial arts, why not give them a positive image of the martial arts? Wouldn't that make more sense than giving them a bad image of the martial arts?


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## MJS (Feb 5, 2010)

rdonovan1 said:


> That's generally how I tend to look at things, but I also am thinking about what the courts and the law is going to say because that is also very important as well.
> 
> My approach to crime and things like that is hard core as I'm not interested in being someone's victim at all. I have however noticed that because of the way that lawyers tend to approach things they have pretty much messed up the system.
> 
> ...


 
Its hard to give something a positive image, when the people viewing the thing in question, know ZERO about it.  Like I said, I highly doubt we'll ever change that, and personally, I'm not going to try, as its just not worth it to me.  Sad as it may be, its something we have to just deal with.

As for the law....know it in your state.  If you have to defend yourself, use the amount of force necessary.  

I do see, at least I think I do, what your concern is....if we are forced to defend ourselves, and we end up in court, are we going to be judged fairly, by the same people, who're clueless about the arts?  Like I said, I'll deal with that later on.  Hopefully, my character will speak for itself.


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## Chris Parker (Feb 6, 2010)

Much though I love free and open conversation, I'm going to go ahead and back the idea of locking this thread. There is no evidence of any move to ban martial arts, none has been produced (or is likely to be), and the conversation is going down some very worn paths. It does no good, and would honestly be a mercy killing...

Robert. Stop. Just stop. You continue to post irrelevantly (in your own threads, no less!), bring up unrelated topics that are innappropriate for here, refuse to listen to anything actually said, and tell us we are saying things we aren't (case in point here being you saying that you are being told by everyone that we would let a "gang member" kill us if they pulled a weapon.... I haven't seen anything close to that in the entire forum, let alone any thread you have been involved in!). You are so far gone in a paranoid delusional world of your own creation that you cannot possibly do or recieve any good here. I wish it was different, but that's the way it is. Saying that you have the Crips and the Bloods in your neighbourhood (in New Mexico, if memory serves, not LA) smacks of this delusion. Though I wish to see everyone grow and learn, you are not in any position to do that, and I would say this is not a healthy place for you, nor indeed any forum on any topic. 

For hopes of getting a bit more insight into you, I googled your username, and got a lot of things come up. I do not believe you are a troll, I think you are a delusional paranoid, and you seriously need help. On imdb, for instance, you entered a review of a Jim Henson film, and your entire review was about a failed relationship in the late 80's and how you feel about that. It had nothing to do with the film itself. And that was done in September 2008. You follow the same pattern everywhere, you have no ability to see what is relevant and what isn't, you make everything about you, and you use any tiny connection, even if only one you imagined, to expound on your frankly incredibly inaccurate beliefs and takes on PU, NLP, and much more.

Stop and get the help you desperately need. There is no need for anyone here to answer you, or for you to answer us. If you do get the help, we will be here. If not, this is an endless circle that we simply don't need. Understand?


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## rdonovan1 (Feb 6, 2010)

MJS said:


> Its hard to give something a positive image, when the people viewing the thing in question, know ZERO about it. Like I said, I highly doubt we'll ever change that, and personally, I'm not going to try, as its just not worth it to me. Sad as it may be, its something we have to just deal with.
> 
> As for the law....know it in your state. If you have to defend yourself, use the amount of force necessary.
> 
> I do see, at least I think I do, what your concern is....if we are forced to defend ourselves, and we end up in court, are we going to be judged fairly, by the same people, who're clueless about the arts? Like I said, I'll deal with that later on. Hopefully, my character will speak for itself.


 
You've got a lot of good points here and I think that you are right about people not really knowing much about the martial arts. My father who is a lawyer is one of those people who knows absolutely nothing about the martial arts. I've been trying to educate him about the subject in an attempt o get him to understand as to how the martial arts relates to the law, but so far he has been very resistant to the whole thing.

Whether it's the law, the martial arts, business or even dating the tactical concepts of people like Sun Tzu and Miyamoto Musashi apply and that's something that I have been trying to apply to all areas of my life as I tend to believe that there is a lot that we can learn from them as both of them really understood human nature and as to how people really think and act and both of them used that to their advantage in combat.

After world war 2 the Japanese started to take those same concepts and they applied them to business and that is why they have been very successful in business.

When used in a legal or self defense context you are essentially trying to outwit your opponent. In the legal context it is in the form of things like motions, opening and closing arguments, and of course the application of the law to it all. 

When it is used in the context of self defense on the street you are essentially outwiting and out thinking your attacker and that's important because no one out on the street is going to sit around and wait for you to jump into some Karate or Kung Fu stance. 

The law is important both in this context and in the dating context because you can either go too far or not enough in your application of self defense tactics and techniques which could result in either you getting hurt or you being on the receiving end of either criminal or civil charges being filed against you for use of excessive force. 

It's also relevant to the dating scene because either you can be stalked or you can be accused of stalking and that is a crime under the law. 

In all of the situations Intent is the key ingrediant because that can make or break either your case or the case of your opponent. There's more that I can add to this, but I'm not going to do so tonight because it is late and becaue I have spent all day listening to the wild iand uneducated deas of a lot of people who are only making the same assumptions as the lawmakers and lawyers that make and enforce the laws. It's pretty sad, but you would think that despite all of their training and what they are supposed to know lawmakers and lawyers would at the very least take the time to educate themselves with the truth. 

Because of the way that our legal system works and is setup and because of all of the shenanigans that have been occuring in the legal community I'm inclined to believe that a lot of the problems that the United States currently has is due to their ignorance and poor management. 

There are two people on this thread beyond myself at the moment that seem to finally be understanding things and that is good. No one ever said that the law is perfect, but it's all that we really got in the United States and whether we like it or not it effects everything that we do in the United States


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## rdonovan1 (Feb 6, 2010)

Chris Parker said:


> Much though I love free and open conversation, I'm going to go ahead and back the idea of locking this thread. There is no evidence of any move to ban martial arts, none has been produced (or is likely to be), and the conversation is going down some very worn paths. It does no good, and would honestly be a mercy killing...
> 
> Robert. Stop. Just stop. You continue to post irrelevantly (in your own threads, no less!), bring up unrelated topics that are innappropriate for here, refuse to listen to anything actually said, and tell us we are saying things we aren't (case in point here being you saying that you are being told by everyone that we would let a "gang member" kill us if they pulled a weapon.... I haven't seen anything close to that in the entire forum, let alone any thread you have been involved in!). You are so far gone in a paranoid delusional world of your own creation that you cannot possibly do or recieve any good here. I wish it was different, but that's the way it is. Saying that you have the Crips and the Bloods in your neighbourhood (in New Mexico, if memory serves, not LA) smacks of this delusion. Though I wish to see everyone grow and learn, you are not in any position to do that, and I would say this is not a healthy place for you, nor indeed any forum on any topic.
> 
> ...


 
Sorry to disappoint you Chris but you have no idea as to what you are talking about. MJS does however seem to understand things a lot better than most people. 

If you don't live in the Unites States and if you don't undertstand United States law and the way things work in the United States then you are not going to know. Trying to apply the rules of other countries does not work in the United States. Googling is not going to help you to understand things at all. Only asking intelligent and well informed questions is and will help and so will knowing about what actually happens in the United States.


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## Chris Parker (Feb 6, 2010)

Oh boy. 

To address your comments in reply to MJS, perchance the reason yourfather has been resistant is that you are far from expert yourself? In fact, I have  yet to see any resemblance of insight or knowledge at all. And you really don't seem to get Sun Tzu or Musashi either, by the way. They are martial and military strategy documents, which have been adapted to modern business use, but were never intended to be used as such. And if you use these ideas in gaming, you've really got the wrong idea... Frankly if you are in any way in danger of stalking, you are way off (I think I've said this a few times?). In that occasion you are suffering a rather bad case of oneitis, and you personally are so far below AFC that I wouldn't even consider you as a wing. All you will do is creep people out. Stop all of that. And, for the (hopefully!) last time, stop bringing this topic up here! There is no excuse for it whatsoever! 

Now, to your comment to me. You have not supplied a single supporting piece of evidence of your initial claims, whether I live in the US or not, you have yet to produce this potential law or evidence of it in any way whatsoever. But that doesn't really have any relevance, as I didn't mention US law once in my post. So that's you imagining things again. Have I said delusional paranoid yet?

I'll keep this simple: 

- Stop posting irrelevant stuff. I personally don't think you can tell the difference, which is leading to this state, though, and if that is the case (if you think everything you have posted is relevant, in other words), stop posting and get help.

- Get help. I know that's repeating myself, but it's important. Get help. We cannot help you.


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## rdonovan1 (Feb 6, 2010)

Chris Parker said:


> Oh boy.
> 
> To address your comments in reply to MJS, perchance the reason yourfather has been resistant is that you are far from expert yourself? In fact, I have yet to see any resemblance of insight or knowledge at all. And you really don't seem to get Sun Tzu or Musashi either, by the way. They are martial and military strategy documents, which have been adapted to modern business use, but were never intended to be used as such. And if you use these ideas in gaming, you've really got the wrong idea... Frankly if you are in any way in danger of stalking, you are way off (I think I've said this a few times?). In that occasion you are suffering a rather bad case of oneitis, and you personally are so far below AFC that I wouldn't even consider you as a wing. All you will do is creep people out. Stop all of that. And, for the (hopefully!) last time, stop bringing this topic up here! There is no excuse for it whatsoever!
> 
> ...


 
Sounds like you need to educate yourself on the real issues because at the moment you are not demonstrating that you have any real knowledge of this issue.

Unlike you I actually live in the United States and I have to deal with the laws of the United States every day. Googling about it is not going to help you because it is something that you have to experience for yourself. 

Trying to say that you do know when you are not directly dealing with with the laws of the United States is just as bad as the lawmakers who claim to think that they know all about the martial arts because they watch a Bruce Lee movie. 

That's part of the problem in the United States and that's where a lot of the problems with the laws in the United States have cropped up from. It's a combination of them knowing absolutely zero about the topic like MJS said and the greed and low morals and values of the politicians who make the laws and the lawyers who attempt to interpret the laws. 

The problem with my father has come up because he has willfully and deliberately chosen to ignore the truth and the facts because of how he really feels about me. He's been doing this for years and you would have to understand the relationship and what was said in order to understand. Googling won't do a thing so let's do everyone a favor and stay on topic and let's use some good old fashioned common sense and people skills as that can go a long ways. 

There's no sense in lower ourselves to the point of the politicians and the lawyers. If they want to be stupid then that is up to them. That doesn't mean that we should be the same way.


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## Chris Parker (Feb 6, 2010)

Bit by bit it is, then...



rdonovan1 said:


> Sounds like you need to educate yourself on the real issues because at the moment you are not demonstrating that you have any real knowledge of this issue.
> 
> I haven't said anything you are claiming I have. I have not mentioned any knowledge of US laws, but I have asked (as others have) for any reference of the proposed laws that you claim everyone on this board should know about. You have yet to even address the request, let alone provide any evidence.
> 
> ...


 
Stay on topic you said... well, give some evidence to support your own topic thread. Show us why you think there is a move to ban martial arts. We have LEOs here, security officers, contact with Black Belt judges, I'm sure more judicial employees than have been mentioned, and these include many in the US (so you don't get confused over who's laws we are discussing), and no-one seems to know anything about this other than you... although you stated on the first page that everyone here should know about it.

Provide some evidence or we will simply assume that this is the result of your imagination. Don't bring anything else up. Don't argue pointless imagined posts. Just show what you are talking about. Because I for one don't believe this ban exists.


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## rdonovan1 (Feb 6, 2010)

Chris Parker once mentioned something to me a long time ago about changing oneself and that is good advice and it is something that I have been doing for a long time.

Unfortunately that advice has not translated over to the American public or to the politicians, lawyers and corporations in the United States and I personally think that is one of the reasons as to why our economy is currently in the toilet.

President Obama says that he inherited all of this when he got into office and in many ways he is right because the problems that this country currently faces has been around since before he even got into office.

Hollywood has not really helped the situation much at all and neither have the parents, schools, or even the churches. At one time it was lawful in the United States for a parent to spank and discipline their child, but since the inception of laws that have basically attempted to punish the parents, schools and churches for disciplining a child in public many parents, schools and churches are really unsure as to what they can and cannot do because they are afraid that if they do something like spanking a child then they will be accused of child abuse and will be sued in court by a greedy lawyer looking to make money off of it.

The courts haven't really done much that is positive either. Part of that is because of overburdend legal system and part of it relates to the way that the laws are currently setup. Instead of truly punishing the criminals they have for years been doing things like letting them off even when they know that the person is guilty and the funny thing is that Hollywood really hasn't helped the situation either.

It's my belief and it is the belief of several Pastors that I have talked to at the church that I go to that if the law, the parents, the schools, and the churches were to take more responsibility for a lot of the things that have been occuring in the United States then chances are that we would see a lot less crime and we probably would also see a lot less instances of insanity as well.

The American society has basically seen a degradation in morals and values since the 1950's and much of it is directly attributable to the American legal system and declining morals and values in the United States. 

I personally think that if our society were to take more responsibilty for the problems that we have created instead of blaming one another for our own mistakes then our society would improve. 

All people have to do to find evidence of what I am saying is to look around because it's all over the place. One example of this is the Columbine, Colorado shooting by several disturbed teenagers in the early 2000's. That is just one of many example's of what I am talking about.

I also tend to believe that one of the best ways that we can combat stuff like that is to start setting better examples for kids to follow while at the same time holding the government and many of the corporations accountable for their actions. It's one thing to be ambitious and to want to protect yourself and your family, but it is quite another when greed is the primary motivation behind many of the lawsuits and corporations. 

One good example of corporate greed and mismanagement is Enron.


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## Chris Parker (Feb 6, 2010)

Dude, did you read a single word I wrote? There is no relevance to your own topic here at all! You are going to get this thread locked down just like your other one very quickly.

Present your evidence, stick to the topic, or stop posting. That's all. Okay?


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## rdonovan1 (Feb 6, 2010)

Chris Parker said:


> Bit by bit it is, then...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
I think that you are forgetting something that you once brought up to me a long time ago and that is about personal change. That was good advice and that is something that I have been working on for a long time. 

If you read some of the other posts that I have recently posted then you will hopefully start to get a better idea as to where some of what I am talking about comes from. 

You claim to know a lot about the seduction community, but what you don't seem to realize is that everything that you have supposedly studied relating to seduction started in the United States because of the way that people tend to act and a lot of that goes directly to the very fabric of American society and that is something that you cannot and will not know about unless you live in the United States and see it for yourself first hand. Reading about it on Google doesn't work because that does not tell you anything. Only first hand experience with it can tell you anything about it at all. 

Most Americans know what I am talking about or at least should know because they were taught the same things that I and every other American has been taught. Some of what we were taught came from our parents, schools, churches and our friends while other parts we got from watching television and movies, listening to music that was produced in the United States and of course having to deal with the law and the lawyers in the United States. 

It's all really simple and if you had been born and raised in the United States then you would know what I am talking about because we are reminded of it every four years when it comes to electing a new President of the United States. We sit around and we listening to them talk about what is wrong with our society and our government and what they plan to do about it if they are elected. More often than not though we are let down big time by them once they get into office because it is nothing but the same pack of lies that the last president made before the new one. 

I don't know about other countries, but the United States has definately seen a major breakdown in morals and values and that is and has become evident to every American because you can't turn around in the United States without hearing at least something about it or seeing it for yourself. 

When I was growing up things were a little different because while we still rebelled we did not talk about how cool it would be to go out and kill someone. We still had sex, drugs, and rock and roll but unlike now it was a lot tamer and milder. This basically an American invention that started in the 1950's but has since made the rest of the world either love us or hate us.


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## rdonovan1 (Feb 6, 2010)

Chris Parker said:


> Dude, did you read a single word I wrote? There is no relevance to your own topic here at all! You are going to get this thread locked down just like your other one very quickly.
> 
> Present your evidence, stick to the topic, or stop posting. That's all. Okay?


 
Dude, It's right in front of your face. If you can't figure it out then that is your problem. Not mine.  

I'm even citing as to where many of these issues came about. It's really not that hard to understand at all. It's so simple that even a kindergartner could see it.


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## Chris Parker (Feb 6, 2010)

Yes, it was good advice, and I wish you could hear it. You haven't changed in any way I can see since your last time here.

This is my last post here, you don't listen, and I'm running out of patience and energy. You consistantly refuse to deal with your own topic, and I see no point in continuing this. You have not cited a single instance for your claims, but have rather tried in a very confusing way to give your own imagined reasons for your imagined situation. There are no politicians trying to ban martial arts, so your "reasoning" is pointless, as is this entire thread. 

I try to keep the game stuff out of here, you really should take that as a guide, but honestly stop reading it as you don't get it. At all. In any way. But for the record, it didn't start in the US because of anything there; Mystery is Canadian, as is Rick H, Zan Perrion, David X, and many other of the guys who started all of this in the first place. Gambler and Kezia, along with AFC Adam and many others are from the UK, it's really only Ross and Major Mark who were the first in the US, they were followed by Style, David DeAngelo, Carlos Xuma and others who helped bring things more "mainstream" (something I'm not particuarly thrilled with, but it works for them!). You're off again.

Your personal ideals of morals and the decay of the US tell me that you are in no way suited to the community. Bow out. The sexual revolution of the 60's is not part of it, and is not why many in the world have issues with the US (although it has been seized on by Islamic extremists and others, but that's only part of it). Believe me, I know the history, and the origins. And your geography is out. Ross may have started everything with the advent of the internet, but the big push came from Mystery, and he did it all himself, so claiming the US as the source is incorrect. Oh, and I don't get any of this from google. That was just you. Really, read the actual words, it'll help.

Okay, that should put that to bed. I'm serious about this, never bring up that topic again. For one thing, you have no idea what you are talking about, but more importantly, it has absolutely no place here! Am I clear?

With that said, unless you can actually come up with a news report, a ratified bill, a law, or something to support the idea that US politicians are wanting to ban martial arts, you have no credibility in your own thread, and I have no wish to go in circles any more.


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## Flea (Feb 6, 2010)

Q:  How many therapists does it take to change a light bulb?

A:  Only one.  But the light bulb has to _want_ to change.

:lol:


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## Bruno@MT (Feb 6, 2010)

rdonovan1 said:


> Women factor into the picture. because they tend to expect you to protect them and to be the man.
> .



Wow...


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## Xue Sheng (Feb 6, 2010)

rdonovan1 said:


> I'm even citing as to where many of these issues came about. It's really not that hard to understand at all. It's so simple that *even a kindergartner could see it*.


 
No I do not believe they could

And now a word of advice 

"Stop"


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## grydth (Feb 6, 2010)

rdonovan1 said:


> Lawmakers in the United States generally believe that the martial arts are bad and that anyone who is associated with the martial arts is nothing but a menace to society and that they should be locked up. That is and has been their position on the subject for a long time as they tend to believe what they see in the movies and what Hollywood says about the martial arts and anyone associated with the martial arts.
> 
> Lawmakers like most people tend to believe in the stereotypes and they generally don't want to hear anything else.



If this is accurate, you have answered your own question, sir.

Individuals of this ilk are unfit for office and have no business infringing our freedom.


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## rdonovan1 (Feb 6, 2010)

None of the claims that people have made since MJS's post are substiated in fact at all. They are the same silly claims that my father and I heard from a  legal clerk several years ago when me and my father were discussing a traffic ticket that I had gotten in the State of California. 

The claims that guy made which were unsubstantiated and ridiculus by both me, my father, and other attorney's that I have talked was that just because I have a commercial CDL license then I should know all the laws that were ever made and that the Patriot Act applied to my situation. 

He proved his ignorance right there because everyone that knows anything about the law knows that even attorney's and judges can't know all of the laws that are made. The only thing that he accomplished was to make a fool out of himself and I'm seeing the same thing here by people who claim to know the martial arts.

Unlike that case the Patriot Act does seem to apply in the legal case that I am currently dealing with because the company that I am dealing with is an Internet company and they are regulated by the U.S. Department of Treasury. 

There is even a list that they are supposed to check that the Treasury department produces. The list is called the SDN list and it's purpose is to screen out potential terrorists and whether the company likes it or not they are required by Federal law to check that list before they send or receive any money through their business. Failure to do so on their part is a violation of Federal law and both criminal and civil penalties can be brought against the company for failure to check that list and to follow what the law says they are supposed to do. Thre is even a clause in the Patriot Act that refers to the type of business that they are engaged in so they can't say that they didn't know. 

That issue is still pending with the with me and the courts at this time. 

That however does not negate my attempts to change myself for the better. It's merely slowed things down quite a bit because it's effected my financial and self defense situation. 

I've been trying to get my father to understand as to where the martial arts comes in with me, but so far he has been applying the same concept that MJS mentioned about lawmakers not knowning a thing about the martial arts and then assuming that they do. 

Maybe I have not done a good job presenting things to my father so that he really understands things better and if so then that is my fault and I take full responsibility for that. I however don't believe that is all of it though because my father tends to have a problem with denial.

Because he lives in a nice neigborhood and has never really experienced crime at all he seems to think that everyone is honest and that there is no such thing as crime. That is a completely foolish thought because it has been proven by the criminal justice system time and time again. 

Unlike my father I have seen and I have met real gangsters and criminals and because of all the time that I spent out on the road as a truck driver and all the online scams that I have come across in the past I know that there are gangs like The Bloods, crips, GKB gang, Hell's Angels, and even the mafia. 

Just a few years ago I ran across one girl that was my next door neighbor who had a history of DUI's and that was heavy into crack because of an ex biker boyfriend that she had. No one really knows as to where she got her money to buy the crack because she was unemployed, but it is suspected that despite her claims that she was not interested in relationsips or sex that she was prostituting herself out just so that she could get money to buy crack. We tried to help her to get off the stuff, but because of what her boyfriend did to her she was really messed up. Rumor has it that she has since turned herself around and is now back to the the way that she was before she got hooked up with this guy.

She is not the only one that I have known like that as I have met others like that before and in the neighborhood that I currently live in it is not uncommon to see the police and since I've lived here there has been several murders one ended with the police the shooting the suspect because he was brandishing a gun in their presence and despite the orders of the police to put his gun down the suspect refused to do so and as a result the police had no choice but to open fire and shoot the guy.

There have been other incidents within the city where people have become very violent. One case involved a woman who worked at Denny's and who was shot by a gang when they tried to rob the Denny's. That woman was unarmed and did nothing to deserve being shot and killed by the gunmen. 

There has also been a case that happened right across the courtyard from me in which a woman who claimed a man made sexual advances towards her killed the man with a knife. Further interviews with her by the police after the incident revealed that she had psychological problems and that she was also known to use drugs. That kind of situation could have been handled a lot better by her even if she was being sexually harrassed. The only legitimate reason for her killing the man would have been if he had a weapon but unfortunately there was no weapon being used by him at all.

She has subsequently been ordered to undergo pyschological evaluation. I don't know if she was committed to a psychiatric hospital or if she was declared fit to stand trial as I have not heard anything more about that case since then. 

There was also and incident that occured at the aparment complex involving another shooting that I did not really find out about until later from a few neighbors and in which the police were involved in. Apparently the issue was so severe that the when I came home from work that night I was not allowed to enter my apartment without a police escort. 

There have also been attempts by people to steal my car in my neighborhood which has increased my overall awarenes and concern and I have also been to places right here in the United States which are known for gang activity. One place is Gary, Indiana. It's considered to be the murder capitol of the world and it is so dangerous there that even the police are afraid to go into the city at night.

This is just the tip of the iceberg as there are a lot of other things that I have either experienced or studied that has made me very skeptical and untrusting of most people.

One incident occured at a truck stop in Iowa. I did not take part in it but I heard it on the CB radio. It involved a couple of truck drivers who were both trying to one up each other. It got so bad that at one point one of the drivers told the other driver that he was a black belt and and ex special forces and that he was going to go over to the other guys truck and kick the guy's ***.

I've even experienced one incident that occured a long time ago while I was out with my friends and that involved some women that we were talking to by a lake at night. It was kind of cold out that night and one of the girls said that she was cold. I tried to be gentlemanly about it and I allowed her to wear my jacket for a little while. When it came time to leave however I had difficulty getting the jacket back from her.

Because of the incidents that have occured in the neighborhood that I live in and the city itself I have inquired with the Guardian Angels about the possibility of starting a Guardian Angels chapter in the city in which I live because there currently is no chapter in this area. 

I'm not even mentioning any of the online stuff that I have experienced nor have I mentioned a thing about other things that I have learned as of yet that have really increased my overall awareness and has made very attuned to the whole idea of combat. 

Simple common sense says here that it is reasonable to be concerned about your physical safety when you experience stuff like that and no psychologist is going to say otherwise because even they know that is a more than reasonable reaction. Psychology says that it is human nature as that is one of the basic instincts that all humans share in common.


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## rdonovan1 (Feb 6, 2010)

grydth said:


> If this is accurate, you have answered your own question, sir.
> 
> Individuals of this ilk are unfit for office and have no business infringing our freedom.


 
I agree with you grydth. You are right about that. The only problem is convincing them of that. That's often easier said than done. 

Perhaps if they were to do a better job in office and if they were to really pay attention and deal with the real issues instead of playing the blame game then maybe we would see some real improvement in our country. 

Maybe I'm a bit prejudiced, but I personally am not convinced that they are going to do that willingly or even anytime soon as it seems like they are more interested in money and their own self interests than they really are in doing things like improving the educational systems or the healthcare systems or even in combating crime. 

I'm of the opinion that serious reform is needed and that the only way that is going to happen is if the American people make it happen. For years we've all heard their lies about what they are and aren't going to do once they are in office, but more often than not they never really seem to do anything that is even remotely constructive once they do get into office. Seems like the rich just keep getting richer, while the poor keep getting poorer.


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## The Last Legionary (Feb 6, 2010)

1- Your relationship with your father has nothing to do with the subject "Martial Arts and the Law".
2- Your inability to get laid also has nothing to do with that subject.
3- All of your little stories have little to nothing to do with the subject.
4- You claim not to be a troll, yet your behavior fits the pattern of several subspecies.
5- I think the statements of your being delusional are spot on.
6- I also think you are here seeking validation and attention.
7- You live in a fantasy world. The real world is nothing like what you write. I know. I live there.







On martial arts related laws:
1- You do  not have to "register your hands". Urban legend.
2- Is is not illegal to defend yourself. Some states even encourage it. Some do insist on retreat. Most will prosecute if you pursue or if you escalate.
3- While several lawmakers have proposed legislation to regulate, no such bill has passed to date.
4- If you know a specific location where anti-martial arts laws exist, please cite the location and the specific law.
5- Other than that, stop posting all these meaningless tangents. Your legal problems, your father, your delusions of women, none of it applies here.


PS You are one ****ed up person, in serious need of therapy. Based on your posts here it is no wonder you have so much turmoil in your life. You bring it on yourself. There is no vast conspiracy. You are a **** magnet and you are supercharged. The only person who can fix that is you. You however won't. So I predict:


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## rdonovan1 (Feb 6, 2010)

The Last Legionary said:


> 1- Your relationship with your father has nothing to do with the subject "Martial Arts and the Law".
> 2- Your inability to get laid also has nothing to do with that subject.
> 3- All of your little stories have little to nothing to do with the subject.
> 4- You claim not to be a troll, yet your behavior fits the pattern of several subspecies.
> ...


 
You're opinion is duly noted but it has nothing to do with reality and if you were to actually pay attention the you would soon discover that.

My father and the martial arts and the law has everything to do with it because my father is an attorney. Can you say that you are an attorney? Unless you can prove that you are an attorney or a police officer that lives in the Albuquerque area then you have no valid claim. 

Much of what I am saying also has to do with the kind of work that I did prior to December of 2007. It is Federally regulated and the law can and does apply as it is regulated by the Federal Department of Transportation and it is enforced by the State Patrol in every single state and it does effect both the drivers and the companies themselves that deal with that industry as they are legally obligated to abide by the same laws that I was required to abide by. 

My father is aware of that and he's also come face to face with it during an unemployment hearing in which he was a part of several years and that ended with the judge getting so angry with the lawyers for the company that I was fighting at the time that the judge actually hung up the phone on the company lawyer because the company lawyer did nothing but to show complete and utter contempt for the judge. 

Because of the company's actions and because of their unproven allegations the judge ruled in my favor because she saw no evidence to support any of the allegations that the company made. One of the allegations that they made that the judge thought was completely absurd related to an old employee manual that resided only on the company's computers that neither me, the judge or even my father had access to. 

That kind of thinking is just plain crazy because everyone who knows anything about computers knows that unless you are given access to something or it is other wise made publicallly available then there is no way that anyone can know as to what is on any computer unless you are a hacker and willing to violate Federal and State computer intrusion laws. 

The martial arts certainly do apply because of things that I have seen and experienced and because of the type of relationship that I have had with my father most of my life. It's not that hard to figure out at all.


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## The Last Legionary (Feb 6, 2010)

rdonovan1 said:


> You're opinion is duly noted but it has nothing to do with reality and if you were to actually pay attention the you would soon discover that.



Paying attention to your mind bending delusional wanderings requires a level of twisting that would knot a yogi for a coons age.



> My father and the martial arts and the law has everything to do with it because my father is an attorney. Can you say that you are an attorney? Unless you can prove that you are an attorney or a police officer that lives in the Albuquerque area then you have no valid claim.



There we have it. Mr. Insanity here only wants local cops and sharks to reply to his rambling.



> Much of what I am saying also has to do with the kind of work that I did prior to December of 2007. It is Federally regulated and the law can and does apply as it is regulated by the Federal Department of Transportation and it is enforced by the State Patrol in every single state and it does effect both the drivers and the companies themselves that deal with that industry as they are legally obligated to abide by the same laws that I was required to abide by.



Has nothing to do with laws concerning martial arts.



> My father is aware of that and he's also come face to face with it during an unemployment hearing in which he was a part of several years and that ended with the judge getting so angry with the lawyers for the company that I was fighting at the time that the judge actually hung up the phone on the company lawyer because the company lawyer did nothing but to show complete and utter contempt for the judge.
> 
> Because of the company's actions and because of their unproven allegations the judge ruled in my favor because she saw no evidence to support any of the allegations that the company made. One of the allegations that they made that the judge thought was completely absurd related to an old employee manual that resided only on the company's computers that neither me, the judge or even my father had access to.
> 
> That kind of thinking is just plain crazy because everyone who knows anything about computers knows that unless you are given access to something or it is other wise made publicallly available then there is no way that anyone can know as to what is on any computer unless you are a hacker and willing to violate Federal and State computer intrusion laws.



Has nothing to do with laws concerning martial arts.



> The martial arts certainly do apply because of things that I have seen and experienced and because of the type of relationship that I have had with my father most of my life. It's not that hard to figure out at all.



3- While several lawmakers have proposed legislation to regulate, no such bill has passed to date.
4- If you know a specific location where anti-martial arts laws exist, please cite the location and the specific law.


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## Bob Hubbard (Feb 6, 2010)

This is the original post.



rdonovan1 said:


> I'm just wondering as to how many people here believe that congress should ban the martial arts completely.
> 
> I'm sure that you've all heard the stories about the martial arts and I'm sure that you all know the general perception by lawmakers and the government of the martial arts and anyone that has anything to do with it at all. In the eyes of the lawmakers the martial arts and anyone who has anything to do with it should be banned because in their opinion the martial arts are dangerous and anyone that chooses to associate with the martial arts is just as dangerous and bad as Al Capone or Ted Bundy.
> 
> Should in your opinion the government ban the martial arts and set forth laws making it a crime or should it be promoted as a character builder.



Congress won't, and any attempt would most likely die in committee if it gets past the "Hey I have an idea so people think I do real work" stage.

Where ever you get your information, I question it's veracity. Especially in light of just how many Congressmen and even our current CiC hold black belts or train.

The government should stay out of it.

Most of the rest of what's been posted in this thread is drivel. *That's the topic as you defined it. *Stay on it. Leave your relationship problems, personal problems, and legal problems out of it. *It's not relevant, no matter how much you think it is.* There are 2 questions, very specifically focused, and a paragraph of opinion.


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## jks9199 (Feb 6, 2010)

Congratulations.

Thread lock Number 2.

jks9199
Sr. Moderator


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