# The ultimate value of Martial Arts?



## Tgace (Oct 24, 2003)

Some of the contention between "camps" here have got me thinking...

What do you see as the value of the Martial Arts? My own philosophy is that they can only be valued when used in service. Service to the individual and his/her family in terms of self-defense or service to the community as in military and law enforcement service. Im speaking of the "big picture" here beyond fitness, self-confidence etc.

This comes to mind as I see some of the contention around here lately associated with instructors + systems and the people associated with them. To me all that BS is about ego, power, d!@k measuring and underlying low self-esteem issues.

So honestly why do you study MA??


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## RanaHarmamelda (Oct 24, 2003)

Heh -- good question, and since I haven;t answered it before on this forum, I will answer it here --

2 reasons, for me.

1. I like to fight. Pure and simple. I enjoy going one on one with someone, testing my skill, strength, and speed, and finding out who will win this match.  The adrenaline rush is incredible, and I'm addicted.

HOwever, in spite of that, I don't like to hurt people, really -- so I do MA. I get to fight, with minimal hurting of people, thanks to things like pads, and rules, etc. 

But as to the 'big picture' you mentioned, that leads to point 2 --

2. I strive for perfection.  IN a very classicaly Greek sense of the word.  I study science, and philosophy, and mathematics, and whatnot, in order to perfect my mind.  I study the martial arts to perfect my body -- to give me that balance of strength, agility, and just...grace...that the martial arts can give.

I see MA as an excellent way to reach for physical perfection (even though I know that goal can never actuall ybe achieved).  I have no social reasons for studying it -- no service reasons, no desire to do charity or what not -- if I ever teach, it will be so I can get better, by knowing my skills more thoroughly. 

Eh...hope that's what you wanted.


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## Dan Anderson (Oct 24, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Tgace _
> *So honestly why do you study MA?? *



Intense interest.  I was the little brother of the biggest hood in junior high.  Being "Anderson's little brother" afforded me a protection from being a wise-*** until...Anderson got sent up to juvenile hall.  Then it didn't mean **** to a tree.  Then I got interested in protecting myself.  That blossomed into a consuming interest.  It also saved me from being quite purposeless.  So, the study of martial arts has been a passion.  That's why I study martial arts.

What do I see as the value?  Hell, if it saved me from becoming a drugged out dreck hoodlum like my brother became and later died from, it'll do wonders for others as well.

Yours,
Dan Anderson


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## MartialArtsChic (Oct 24, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Tgace _
> *Some of the contention between "camps" here have got me thinking...
> 
> This comes to mind as I see some of the contention around here lately associated with instructors + systems and the people associated with them. To me all that BS is about ego, power, d!@k measuring and underlying low self-esteem issues.
> ...



You know, I've been thinking along these lines for awhile now too.

Why do I study it?  For the most part, it's because I want to -  for me.  It's something I've always wanted to learn but always thought I was too fat.  So, 83 pounds lighter, 2.5 years later and I'm seeing Black Belt in April, 2004.

My father did it, my brother did it and one day I thought why can't I do it?  So I did. And if I make it to the test, I'll be the first one in the family to earn their black belt.  My father died and my brother blew his knee out before either could test.

The other reason - it's just so much freakin' fun!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


MartialArtsChic


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## Tgace (Oct 24, 2003)

Thanks for the honest and revealing replies. In my own history, I grew up in a rural area where the nearest male friends were3-4 miles away and I was the only boy child with 2 younger sisters. I didnt play a lot of football, baseball etc. team sports. I did a lot of individual stuff (hunting, camping,fishing etc.). In high school i wasnt a "geek" or picked on in any way (I broke a kids wrist in 5th grade after he punched me in the stomach and thats the last I remember of that type of stuff). I suppose my interest in MA was it was a way to be "cool" and deal with adolescent masculinity issues. As an adult I can see how that extended into my grown-up pursuits. I got into rock climbing, did some skydiving, served in the military and got into law enforcement (all "macho" stuff that had to have some connection to "proving myself"). I must say that those issues growing up must have had some influence. Everybody deals with issues, theyre not inherently good or bad, its just growing up.

But in the same vein, I think that now, as an adult very little of my "self-worth" is wrapped up in the martial arts. So Im finding all of this "bad blood" over MA kind of silly.


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## Rich Parsons (Oct 24, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Tgace _
> *Some of the contention between "camps" here have got me thinking...
> *



Tgrace thanks for expressing you opinions. For the record, I am not really in any camp, that is represented here.




> _Originally posted by Tgace _
> *What do you see as the value of the Martial Arts? My own philosophy is that they can only be valued when used in service. Service to the individual and his/her family in terms of self-defense or service to the community as in military and law enforcement service. Im speaking of the "big picture" here beyond fitness, self-confidence etc.
> *



The value of the martial arts on many levels can be discussed. I will try to express them. It does help me with my exercise nad physical training. It does help with the self confidence  as well. Yet as you mentioned you said the big picture. I also train for I feel comfortable while training and gain true pleasure from the motions.

As to the service, well I have used it to protect people and to help people from the general bad guy on the street. Yet I realize that not everyone has this opportunity nor the desire. So, in teaching and spreading the art, maybe it will help those that do have the desire.



> _Originally posted by Tgace _
> *This comes to mind as I see some of the contention around here lately associated with instructors + systems and the people associated with them. To me all that BS is about ego, power, d!@k measuring and underlying low self-esteem issues.
> *



Yes, there is ego, and power and the other things you mentioned going on here. Sometimes I enter the discussion to discuss issues, or questions. Many times it is to learn. Some times it is to express my opinion or my knowledge on something. Sometimes there are half truths or mis-understanding that need to be addressed. I also ask people why they make such a comment over and over again. Such as to why I should open my mind. When I believe I have an open mind. Or when people pontificate their opinions and expect everyone to agree with them just because. I accept the possibility that it is possible that anything is possible or could happen.  I do not claim to be high rank, nor do I claim to be the best teacher, nor do I claim to have all the answers. I do state that my instructed as stated "Fill in the blank" or that I have trained in "XYZ".  

So, sir, I do apologize if I have offended you in anyway. It bothers me when people imply that I and the moderators here do not allow them to post their opinion. (* You have not said such a thing, this is from earlier posts on other threads *). It also bothers me, when I know something to be different from what someone else has said, and I recognize that the difference comes in from their teachers additional material. I mention these differences in an open minded fashion, and get told I am bold face wrong many times. For this I apologize for trying to allow everyone the freedom to post their minds and/or knowledge.

I respect yours and others opinions and prividges to post here on Martial Talk as long as it is within the rules and being respectful to others.



> _Originally posted by Tgace _
> *So honestly why do you study MA?? *



I started the Martial Arts in a real funny situation. I posted this before on another thread.

I was the brain geek who was large, and was always picked on so I learned how to defend myself using my strength. I thought a fair fight was four of them and one fo me. Why? Because if there was less than four, I would get a hold of one and hurt him bad and then move to the next one. If there was more than they would get in each other's way and I would get a hold of one of them and hurt them real bad. With four people it seemed like peopel would get hurt only not real bad.

Now how did I get into the Martial Arts. A friend of mine who as already a Lakan Isa (* Black Belt 1st degree *) in Modern Arnis, took me to his class one night, after a real stressful day. I had missed the police in the city I was going to college, as they were their to pick me up for questionsing. I came home an hour away and found out that two of my friends were in jail. You see one of them had hurt another real bad with a knife. We had already given our statments, and now the DA was pressing charges. At this class I saw how you could control someone and choose your attack spots to control the damage to your opponents. You see by hurting someone real bad, I mean I was putting people in the hospital for extened stays and/or casts. Nope I was never into drugs. Nope I never bullied people. Yet I could never just stand by and allow bullies to do their thing. I always got involved. I helped the little guy or child or young women. So, you see I was doing the big picture before I did martial arts, martial arts allowed me to continue while I was in school for being an engineer with less damage to the bad guys. Now you might wonder why I would care about the bad guys. Well spending time in the police station or in the court room or money on lawyers is not the idea of a good time.

So, I started because I was looking for something to help control the bad guys with out destroying them so bad. Is stayed because I enjoyed it. The learning the teaching. I do nto make money at this. I ahve no grand plan to be a grand master or hav a dozen schools, yet if I can help ther learn for what ever theri reason then I have somehow helped.

I know I have gone long way around, and I hope I have answered your question(s)

With Respect, to an excellant question.
:asian:


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## stickarts (Oct 24, 2003)

I love the physical training, i used to really love the competition, i like teaching, i like the discipline. It is like a second family to me.
Basically, i just simply like it!! It felt right from the first! The most important lessons i have learned in life have been through my training.


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## Cruentus (Oct 24, 2003)

1. I started Martial Arts when I was 7 yrs old. I was uncordinated, partially disabled, and I got beat up a lot. Not much has changed (lol), I must have just grown to enjoy it so much that now I am addicted to getting beat up! :rofl: Seriously, my age and reasons for starting is true. All through my childhood it helped to keep me from getting beat up. Through adolesence it kept me out of trouble, and kept me focused. Now, it is just like breathing, eating, and sleeping. I get up in the morning, I eat, and I work out to stay healthy, and I train Martial Arts. I can't imagine myself not training is something at this point.

2. There are certian activites that are the ultimate integration of mind and body. Martial Arts and stalking animals in the woods (not to kill, just to touch) are 2 that I love to do and focus on. They put your mind and body at one, and they put you at one with your surroundings. Without getting flaky on everyone, I think that this can be a very spiritual thing as well.

3. I'll steal Tgace's lingo here and say 'Service'. Martial arts has a purpose. I don't do it to keep in shape, I work out for that. I don't do it to compete anymore. I don't do it to correograph movies, or do flashy demonstrations. I do it to hieghten my ability to survive "a skirmish" or a close quarter combat encounter. I am not in a field where I will have to use my abilities, so I teach others who might have to. I enjoy teaching security, LEO, and military for this reason. I also enjoy teaching other Martial Arts teachers so they can impart their knowledge to their students who are often women, children, and others who need to learn self defense. I run a small class, and I mainly teach the above.

In terms of "Bad Blood" over martial arts:

Most of it is silly. I tell things like it is and the way I see it, and people get pissed off. Problem is, many Martial artists are liars. They lie about their abilities, their credentials, their and their art. They lie to themselves first, and then to everyone else. And those who don't know any better follow the lies. When Professor died, a lot of liars came out of the woodwork. I don't like it when people lie. Plus, if you had a close enough relationship with Remy you knew how important the Modern Arnis legacy was to him, and you get pissed of when people lie about themselves, bicker, jocky, etc. over it, bastardizing the mans legacy and dream. Then you find yourself speaking your mind about it, hoping to do good, when you might just be getting sucked into participating in the same pool of negativity that your trying to stand against. It's tough....do you not say anything when others are acting like @$$es, and have to live with not standing up for what you believe in, or do you say something and worry about getting sucked into the same bad behavior of your peers? It is no easy answer. I used to say things every time I smelled fabrication. Now, I pick my battles, and I am more diplomatic. There is no easy answer, yet we all have to live with our choices and actions. I just am glad that I can look myself in the mirror knowing that I am not a liar. If I can continue to do that, I am on the right track in handling the "martial arts bickering" in my opinion.

:asian:


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## Tgace (Oct 24, 2003)

Once again thanks for the revealing replies...Let me just say that my observations and criticisms are NOT directed at any individual here. No one person is to "blame" for the state of affairs. It takes two to tango but at the bottom of it all is the fact that we each "choose" to take offense at things. Nobody "makes" us feel any emotion. Its time some people take the "high road" here and try to realize what is important in life.

Please excuse the "preachy" tone of my posts. Today I just came home from the wake of a soldier that I served many years with. He was recently killed in Iraq by a command detonated IED. His name was SPC Michael Williams and he served with the 105th MP Co. my old National Guard Unit and is the second person from that unit to be killed "over there". Its things like that that make you realize how trivial subjects like MA really are in the grand scheme of things.


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## loki09789 (Oct 24, 2003)

Amen Brother,

Tom,

I am going to the funeral tomorrow for Mikey.  He was a good guy, and it is a shame.

History,

I was a little guy who didn't want to play organized sports, so I was one of Tom G's punching bag/training partners from way back.  We made our own worth back then based on our martial arts practice.  Now as an adult, I see how that has changed to personal fulfillment through personal challenges on and off the training floor.  Climbing, skydiving, military service, High School theater, teaching... they are all gut checks in some way and my martial training is also a way of preparing my self for stress of all kinds.  I have used the term "everyday martial arts" in past classes to explain how martial training can contribut to all aspects of a person's development.

Just recently I left a salary paying teaching job to sub-teach closer to home for family needs, I was nervous but fine.  I credit martial arts training for my ability to think through and execute that decision.  I dealt with the fear/stress better because I had prepared myself in martial arts and other arenas.

Martial training has served me well and I would like to think that by teaching (Martial arts as well as English), military service and trying to live by a personal code of integrity, I can use the intangible qualities that martial training can develop to be a contributing citizen (boy that sounds really holier than thou, am I running for office?) I see martial arts as one of those things that I do that is a logical activity for my personality, not the thing that defines me.

Paul Martin


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## MartialArtsChic (Oct 25, 2003)

First of all, my thoughts and prayers to the family of SPC Michael Williams.  He did a tremendous service for us all.

Secondly, reading these posts have been great and I thank you all for your replies.  I can tell from reading that you all really care about what you do.

Tgace, I saw nothing offending in your post.  I myself was thinking the same thing so this thread is one that really peaked my interest even though I'm Combat Hapkido and not Modern Arnis, I'm dipping anyway.  :angel: 

I'm relatively new to forums, not just this one, and have been reading and yes, the peeing matches are very annoying and all I can do is just roll my eyes.  But I  know that you do pick your battles, because not all are worth it, but when you do then yes, you stand up for yourself and your beliefs and not let the little man with the closed mind and cocky attitude get away with it.  Sometimes troublemakers just have to be stopped in their tracks and sometimes they can be ignored.  Each situation/person is different.

"Its things like that that make you realize how trivial subjects like MA really are in the grand scheme of things".

You are so right with this quote.  I work for lawyers and everyday I see how people of all ages die when they didn't have to.  It is my belief that as long as you figure out what is really important to you and strive to keep those in the forefront of your mind, then you are one up on the ones that don't.

Well, okay, hope I didn't ramble too much here.

Lorrie


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