# How much self-defense do you think you really need?



## shesulsa (Feb 23, 2008)

Take some time and really think about how much threat you really have in daily life and ask yourself what your daily needs are.

Some of us are in very dangerous areas and some of us are in the suburbs, some of us are out in public every single day, creatures of habit, others have more leisure opportunities than others ... there are many factors really.

But what I find interesting is while there is a *strong* need by some for some on this board, I have been pondering the Urban Warrior axiom and some knock-off questions like, can you be prepared and not lose your sense of humanity? and can you walk without fear AND without a weapon? and various other fever-induced questions over the last few days.

Thanks.


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## terryl965 (Feb 23, 2008)

Shesulsa my family and I live in an upscale nieghborhood for this we really need minimal. The school is located in a pretty bad nieghborhood at times we need alot. With that being said the area is under construction and they are building it up and trying to make it better mainly because of the new stadium.

When we go to New York we would need more SD, the way I see it you can never really have enough in some places and in other we have wat to much.


My main concern is about my childern when they go out to B-day parties or out to the movies and such. They are the one vulenable to crimes more so then us.


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## theletch1 (Feb 23, 2008)

Can I walk without fear and without a weapon?  No, not really, if I consider my primary weapon to be my mind.  I live out in the woods so it's mostly furry critters that pose a threat while at home.  Going to work at around 4 am in a bad section of town puts me in a position to have to be on my guard.  I'm usually the only one around the lot at that time of morning so anything that happens is gonna have to be dealt with by me, alone.  The biggest part of self defense for me is simply the situational awareness that inevitably comes with the training.  Fueling in truck stops at night is yet another area of concern for me.  Again, situational awareness helps keep the use of technique fairly unnecessary.  The thing is, though, that without the training for those techniques the situational awareness doesn't really pop in.  Your need for SD will vary from day to day and from place to place.  Anywhere there's people that you aren't very familiar with your need will go up just due to the unpredictability factor.


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## Xue Sheng (Feb 23, 2008)

How much SD do you need? Hopefully none.

But should the need arise possibly a lot.

Walking around in fear... no walking around being very aware of my surroundings yes.

when asked by one of his students if he has ever been concerned for his safety My Taiji sifu said "no". I later asked him about that and he said he has always trusted in his taiji. To make a long discussion short, he also said that meant his training in taiji made him more aware of what was going on and places not to go and people to avoid and if necessary it also meant he was capable of defending himself.

My sanda sifu has also said that Sanda is a great way to keep in shape and he knows if necessary he could defend himself.

Both are very well trained and very capable and both really prefer NOT using what they know. But if they have to they can.

I feel that I train CMA because first I enjoy it second for health and third if need be I can defend myself. And I do know from experience that it is not a good feeling when you think "Here it is, I am going to end up in a fight" and the only think you are 100% certain of is that you will not win but you will slow them down so others can get away. Take it form me that isn't a fun feeling. 

So after a long babble how much SD do I need? I don't know and I hope I never do but I want to be ready just in case because I NEVER want that feeling again.


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## morph4me (Feb 23, 2008)

I don't think I need it as much as I used to, but I recognize that just because nothing has happened to me or my family in many years, doesn't mean that it can't happen in the future. It's like crossing the street, I look both ways because I realize that there is a possibilty that if I don't I can be hit by a car. I train because I would rather keep my skills honed and not need them, then need them and not have them.


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## arnisador (Feb 23, 2008)

terryl965 said:


> Shesulsa my family and I live in an upscale nieghborhood for this we really need minimal.



 I still think a good salary is the best self-defense. A nice and secure house, a professional job in a good area, etc. Add a cell phone and you're covered for a lot of cases. Of course, things still happen.



> My main concern is about my childern when they go out



Yes, same here. It's mostly when they're school-aged, including being poor college students, that concerns me. I just started my daughter in formal training with a local instructor this week. Anyone care to guess why I'm having here take BJJ? A hyperextended elbow can succeed where "Hey, I really meant _No_" might fail. That's self-defense she might need, though of course here again common sense, awareness, and avoiding alcohol can really help a lot.


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## FearlessFreep (Feb 23, 2008)

This is something I asked myself a few months ago... well it's something I've asked myself all the time and I finally did something about it.

I'm a 38 yo white male computer programmer living a fairly upper-middle income lifestyle.  The odds are in my favor that nothing un-toward will happen to me.

I was in a school that was all self-defense.  And I took it deadly seriously, probably too seriously.  I found myself simultaneously realizing that I was spending an awful lot of time and focus training for something that, realistically, odds were good would never happen.  I mean,  maybe some day it would happen, but 18-20 hours a week in class is a lot of time to be spending on something that unlikely.  Like spending 20 hours at the local batting cage just in case you get that call to the major leagues.... you need a bit of a sense of perspective.  Worse off, I was getting into a mentality where I was *hoping* something would happen just to get a chance to use everything I was practicing.  It's one thing to be aware of your surroundings when going to the grocery store...it's another to be secretly hoping someone  in the parking lot would try something.  I felt that that was a very unhealthy mental state to be in.  So I realized I needed a slightly different approach and I ended up in a school that still takes MA seriously as self-defense, but also provides some sport opportunities and I find that helps my mindset immensely in providing an outlet or release for my mental state of wanting to do "something" with the time I spend in class.

Yeah, I think it's important to take your training seriously in what MA is intended to be about, but I think you need a rational perspective on what it means in your life as a whole.  For some people, due to their jobs and situations, that's a lot more than others


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## MA-Caver (Feb 23, 2008)

When I lived in Dallas and Washington D.C. the neighborhoods I lived in were of high risk. Most of my MA-training took place in those two cities. Then moving out to Utah one person remarked to me that I was the most dangerous person that they ever knew, simply of my awareness level, how for a while it was impossible to sneak up on me, my quick reactions to playful jabs and what-nots. But after a while all of that went lax. I realized that I needed to lower my "threat-level" awareness because of the literal minimal threat the area where I lived (college town of roughly 100,000 +/-) presented. Crime was there but not feared. People literally left doors unlocked the whole day through as they went to work/school. Crowded apartments with 4-5 college aged girls were found this way. Many of them were left unlocked throughout the night. Some with doors wide open because of busted ac units during the hot summer nights. While I rarely left my doors unlocked I was able to wander the nights along the streets with little or no concern. So I had more SD knowledge/training/experience than I needed for that area/time. 
Now where I live it's relatively the same thing. There are certain areas of the city that I'd be stupid to go into late at night unprepared and with my guard down ... but since I don't do that anyway... So while my threat-awareness level is raised only slightly I probably still have too much training/knowledge/experience than I really need. 

BUT! Let us not kid ourselves. Remember the Amish!


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## Brian R. VanCise (Feb 23, 2008)

*Things and any situation can change on a dime*.  So for myself and my family I plan on being prepared.  Not paranoid, not scared, not out of touch with reality *but just being prepared*.  I do the same with finances and pretty much everything in my life.  A practical no nonsence kind of approach!


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## KenpoTex (Feb 23, 2008)

How much SD do you need?  I think the answer to this question depends on "what 'battle' you're training to fight."  To paraphrase a statement from a member on another forum: "Most schools/instructors/systems are great at preparing someone for a "low-level" attacker, some are able to prepare you for an "average" attacker, very very few are able to prepare you for the worst case scenario."
I often ask my students "who are you training to beat?"  I try gear my training for the true monsters, the kind of recidivist criminals who just got through doing hard time in one of our gladiator academies--I mean prisons--and as a result are even more warped than when they went in and are also able to bench twice their body weight because they've done nothing but work out for the last X-number of years.  With that kind of opponent in mind, I would say the training requirement is pretty darn high.  

Can I carry a weapon without fear?  Sure, but why would I limit my options?  I don't carry a pistol, knives, etc. because I'm "afraid,"  I do it because by doing so I have the ability to deal with more situations than I might be able to deal with if all I had was my empty hands (e.g. the aforementioned monsters).  As Brian said, it's _prepared_, not _paranoid_.

I don't should really be a determining factor.  Sure, some areas are much more "dangerous" than others; however, violence happens everywhere.  Just because you live in the "good" part of town and don't venture into the "hood" doesn't mean you are exempt from being targeted.


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## kidswarrior (Feb 23, 2008)

In my day job, 99% of my self defense consists of self-confidence combined with all-day, every-minute willingness to stand up to whatever 'juvenile' (many are 17 going on 40 in the court system) may decide to *go off* that day because they're tired of the group home, hate their lives or guardians, whatever. This is backed up by my MA training, which they also know about and a few have seen (they all know each other and talk all the time, so you get kind of a rep). So, I need a lot of self-defense, which 99% of the time I count as awareness/confidence, and maybe 1% of the time, willingness to stand tall and wait to see if they are going to go physical. Have yet to be directly attacked, although several have tried to provoke me into making the first move, and have been in the middle of scores of kid-on-kid and adult-on-kid attacks, often as the only responsible adult around, some including crowbars, shanks and guns. Anyway, that's my story and I'm sticking to it.


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## Guardian (Feb 23, 2008)

Brian R. VanCise said:


> *Things and any situation can change on a dime*. So for myself and my family I plan on being prepared. Not paranoid, not scared, not out of touch with reality *but just being prepared*. I do the same with finances and pretty much everything in my life. A practical no nonsence kind of approach!


 
*This is the way to look at it and I do.  It's simple, prepared and as stated nonsense approach.*


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## MA-Caver (Feb 23, 2008)

I'd have to go with what Brian and Kenpotex said. I wish I can remember who/what/where I read/heard this statement but it holds very true... "Expect the unexpected."

But I guess it doesn't matter who/what/how/where I heard/read it from... as long as I remember it and understand it's meaning.


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## kailat (Feb 23, 2008)

How much self defense does one need?  This is an interesting question, and It should be looked at in a few different angles.  For many the actual thought of a threat on a daily basis is just that, mere "THOUGHT".  It's a sense of preparedness.  To me preperation is key.  There are a few good rules of thumb that I live by:

1. Proper Preperation Perfects Poor Performance!  ( 5 P's)

2. It's best to have a few self defense techniques and practice them a 
    thousand times, than to have a thousand techniques, and practice 
    them a few times.

3.  It's best to have a weapon and not need it, than to need a weapon 
     and not have it.  eg. Knife, Firearm, Stick/Cane, Flexible Weapon etc...

For many the idea of self defense is a must!  It's fun, its mind altering, it's good excersise and it gives that sense of "No-Nonsense" training.  They feel as if they are getting soemthing positive from training.  Not everyone wants to learn martial arts to learn kata and perform in competition.  For example myself and my counterparts/peers, and students are mostly all in a field of work where we need to be sharp and training of awareness is key for survival as officer of law in one field or another.  Be it security, bouncing, police officer, corrections officer, case manager, military etc...

 For those that come to me to learn anything other than Self Defense and reality street defense, I send them to one of my many friends that own and operate local karate dojo or taekwondo dojangs.  

 I enjoy going out and having a beer on the weekends and occassional weeknight with friends and co-workers.  Not sure who partakes in this pasttime but its an environment that comes without a price.  You need to always be onguard and aware of your surroundings at all times.  Now I don't myself or the crowd I hang out with get into altercations in these environments.  But when i go out it's almost nightly that I am in an establishment where fights break out. Some pretty nasty others not as bad.  I've been in an area where fights have broken out and although i've not been involved but being so close and in such a croweded environment you can't help but be involved at times.  So yes it is just as easy said " DON"T FREQUENT THOSE SPOTS!"  but truthfully Its my psttime and my friends and I go out on occasion and cut loose and enjoy it.  So for that staying sharp and aware as well as knowing you have your friends back and he yours, is a good and winning combination.  

 Sure having a great job in a secure side of town or environment is a great start.  But also those that are more well off are often key targets to the not so fortunate who want to rob.  So therefore your awareness level should be hightened as well.

 Christmas time, in a local Indianapolis shopping Mall, my son and I were targeted by a group of young thugs that tried to manipulate me into a corner to do whatever they had in mind.  But my training and awarness stopped me.  

 So as someone else stated its all in waht your battle or is and what your goals in learning are!

  Thank you 
cory


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## howard (Feb 23, 2008)

terryl965 said:


> When we go to New York we would need more SD, the way I see it you can never really have enough in some places and in other we have wat to much.


Terry, have you been to NYC lately?

It's no more dangerous than any other city in the US these days. Manhattan, especially, is quite safe. There are cops everywhere. Manhattan is where the tourists are, and the tourists spend a lot of money in NYC. So you can bet that it's safe.

In the other boroughs, it's really no different from any other large metropolitan area. There are areas that re completely safe 24 hours a day, and there are others where nobody in their right mind would go after dark.

Use your head, stay out of bad areas, get out of any place where things just don't feel right, and you'll be fine in NYC.


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## Xue Sheng (Feb 23, 2008)

MA-Caver said:


> I'd have to go with what Brian and Kenpotex said. I wish I can remember who/what/where I read/heard this statement but it holds very true... "Expect the unexpected."
> 
> But I guess it doesn't matter who/what/how/where I heard/read it from... as long as I remember it and understand it's meaning.


 
To expect the unexpected shows a thoroughly modern intellect. - Oscar Wilde

this could cover it too

Speak softly but carry a big stick - Teddy Roosevelt


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## Kacey (Feb 23, 2008)

Awareness of potential threats is the key.  When I was in college in the 80s, especially before I started TKD as a sophomore, I used to walk around the campus wearing a Walkman and with an open book in my hand, reading as I went to my next class.  My peripheral vision kept me on the sidewalk and away from tree limbs, but I noticed _nothing_ else.  After I started TKD I realized just how stupid that was, and I quit doing it... and in the time since, I've never needed anything more, except for breaking up a couple of fights in the middle school where I teach, and that was more a matter of my referee training kicking in than any specific self-defense techniques (I suddenly found myself between a pair of girls in the middle of a cat fight, yanking them apart and yelling "BREAK!!!  it up...").

My awareness level varies depending on where I am and what is going on around me - I am, for example, more aware of potential threats when I am at work than I am when I am walking my dog, as my home is in a better neighborhood than my work... and then, of course, my dog is very aware of his surroundings, and I watch his reactions when he's with me.


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## LawDog (Feb 23, 2008)

shesulsa said:


> can you walk without fear AND without a weapon? and various other fever-induced questions over the last few days.
> Thanks.


Through proper training and guidence one can become very proficient in self defence and will not lose his / her sense of humanity. In the martial arts one is taught balance in every thing physical and mental, this includes,
* if you are taught to destroy then you should be taught to create,
* if you are taught to injure than you should learn to heal,
* to understanding what evil is one should understand what humanity is,
By knowing / understanding the extreme opposite ends of something you will have the two bench marks needed in order to understand where you really are.
Many of today's assault victum's live in the very quiet area's. Because one lives in such an area does not mean that their guard should be down. They should instead keep their relaxed awareness on.
:asian:


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## Sanchin-J (Feb 24, 2008)

What I know now "could" serve me just fine with no further training if that was all I was in Self Defense classes for. However, I didn't sign up or return to the Self Defense based art I'm in for the combative training exclusively. I came back because of the changes it made in my life and the things it taught me beyond throwing kicks and punches. I gained a large amount of self esteem, was always subject to encouragement, and was a part of a family of fellow martial artists and enthusiasts who love the art for what it is. I really can't say that I'll ever get enough of the art I am in, every day you learn something new and well, the people who study in my particular art are family to me.


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## chinto (Feb 24, 2008)

considering the supreme court of the United States of America has ruled over 5 times in the last 100 years that the police and other law enforcement agency's have NO DUTY TO PROTECT ANY ONE!!  I would say I need what ever I can get. the cold hard truth people is that the police are NOT there to PROTECT YOU!!  But to investigate the crime, and arrest a suspect, and help in his prosecution by investigation of the crime.  That is LITERALLY the LAW OF THE LAND FOLKS!  So, I would say you need what ever self defense you think you do and provably a bit more.   

Sorry Law Dog, but that is what the 9 Supreme Court Justices of the United States of America have ruled. many times.    The motto  "to  serve and  protect"  is effectively a lie... this does not mean they will not help or do what they can if they are there, but the old saw of " never a cop around when you really need one is unfortunately true more then it is not.  Not the cops fault, after all the criminals do make a point of NOT doing crime under a cops nose if they can help it... or are incredibly stupid!! 
in short, armed is good, well trained in a good system of self defense, armed and unarmed is better!


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## JadecloudAlchemist (Feb 24, 2008)

How much self defense do I think I need?
As much as I can have and use.


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## chinto (Feb 25, 2008)

JadecloudAlchemist said:


> How much self defense do I think I need?
> As much as I can have and use.



yep.. and maybe a bit more.. for its better to be tried by 12 then to be carried by 6!!


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## Darth F.Takeda (Feb 25, 2008)

kenpotex said:


> How much SD do you need? I think the answer to this question depends on "what 'battle' you're training to fight." To paraphrase a statement from a member on another forum: "Most schools/instructors/systems are great at preparing someone for a "low-level" attacker, some are able to prepare you for an "average" attacker, very very few are able to prepare you for the worst case scenario."
> I often ask my students "who are you training to beat?" I try gear my training for the true monsters, the kind of recidivist criminals who just got through doing hard time in one of our gladiator academies--I mean prisons--and as a result are even more warped than when they went in and are also able to bench twice their body weight because they've done nothing but work out for the last X-number of years. With that kind of opponent in mind, I would say the training requirement is pretty darn high.
> 
> Can I carry a weapon without fear? Sure, but why would I limit my options? I don't carry a pistol, knives, etc. because I'm "afraid," I do it because by doing so I have the ability to deal with more situations than I might be able to deal with if all I had was my empty hands (e.g. the aforementioned monsters). As Brian said, it's _prepared_, not _paranoid_.
> ...


 
We are alot alike.
 I tell my studensts they need to picture the meanest, biggest, evilist, ex con psycho they ever met or saw on a prison doc and train to kill him.

Bad things happen in nice areas as wel as in bad. Not as much but they still can and do. Some criminals have the brains and the balls to go where the money is.
The addition of the Virginaia Railway Express, from Fred. to DC, with a station by my nice hood, has brought some people into it at times you knew did not belong and where up to no good, so I watch out and so does my lady.

How much do you need? Thats a personal decision.
I think everyone should learn some basics and refresh periodically.
Are school is very SD orientated, but also is about preserving the art.
You can still have a good time and be good people while trainintg top kill or maim the wicked, I never saw the point in McDojo recreation, if your going to train in a fighting art, train in a serious school or take up Yoga.

 Shugyo!


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## Darth F.Takeda (Feb 25, 2008)

LawDog said:


> Through proper training and guidence one can become very proficient in self defence and will not lose his / her sense of humanity. In the martial arts one is taught balance in every thing physical and mental, this includes,
> * if you are taught to destroy then you should be taught to create,
> * if you are taught to injure than you should learn to heal,
> * to understanding what evil is one should understand what humanity is,
> ...


 
Balance pretains.

You make a great point.
7 years back I had hopes of getting into the Military (I got asthma, long story) and I took a year to train myself mentally and physically, to not only suppress my condition but to be better trained than the average enlistee (When your Sempai is SF, it rubs oof and he encouraged my approach. Also growing up around vets and hearing stories of being undertrained for Vietnam made an impression, real warriors train more than the standard.).
 One problem arouse though, I became more aggressive than I was as a teen. Not a bully or sticking my nose into stuff, but I was more aggressive when confronted. Arguments with my lady became very heated, I adopted a win at all cost, dont back down mentallity for awhile.
When it became clear that there was no hope in being able to enlist for combat arms, I knew I had to re center myself.
Started getting in touch with my "softer" side, started to meditate, explore my religeous/spirtitual beliefs and stopped playing first person shooter games for awhile (If you play them with a mind of training for tactics and the stimules/response of engageing and dropping targets and being ruthless, they do effect you.) and got back inot listening to music more than watching TV (especially the news).
 I do see why many MA's have a spiritual side. Sure sometimes it's esoteric BS and overboard cult like new age stuff, but I do see why warriors explored that side more and more as they aged.
 I have warned my Kohai to watch out for becomeing to aggressive and to fixated on piossable threats.


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## Darth F.Takeda (Feb 25, 2008)

Another thing to think about (but not all the time, or you might find yourself living in the woods with nutcases.) is that you cant rely on society and civillization staying as it is. History is full of radical changes, collapses, wars, natural desasters and such. Nothing is certian but death.

My buddy used to half joke that it's a "Mad Max Future!"

I saw a little bit of that durring Hurricane Andrew first hand.
Look at New Orleans durring Katrina, the Overtown riots of 89, the LA riots, where the violence spread out of the slums and into nicer areas.

Before 9-11,  new a number of aquantences and even friends who looked at me as a bit off, for training MA with the slant that I do, firearms training and bringing up the above subject when asked why I train and think like I do.
Right after 9-11 they all were asking me about training and I even got the "I thought you were a parinoid survivalist, but now I realize you just took your head out of the ground before most of us."


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## jamz (Feb 25, 2008)

shesulsa said:


> Take some time and really think about how much threat you really have in daily life and ask yourself what your daily needs are.
> 
> Thanks.



You don't need it at all, until you need it.


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## geezer (Feb 26, 2008)

FearlessFreep said:


> This is something I asked myself a few months ago... well it's something I've asked myself all the time and I finally did something about it.
> 
> I'm a 38 yo white male computer programmer living a fairly upper-middle income lifestyle. The odds are in my favor that nothing un-toward will happen to me.
> 
> ...


 
Sorry to disagree with what a lot of folks have posted, but I think the "freep" has a good point. A lot of people get really deep into self-defense training, imagining themselves up against the baddest dude out there. Then, after investing hours upon hours, training the most ruthless techniques, a part of them secretly "hopes" something will happen. I call that a recipe for disaster. Better to train awareness and avoidance, and work at being the best martial artist you can be.


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## tempus (Feb 26, 2008)

I believe I need as much as I can get.  I train for the possibility that I may have to use that training someday. I work and live in nice areas.  Do I go out into the workd everyday paranoid no, but I do make sure I am aware of what is going on around me.  How many people were out for a walk in a nice mall with family friends when they take a bullet to the back?  Anything can happen at any time.

My father also drilled into me that when I was older that I should have firearms in the house, which I do.  If there is ever a national crisis the police will not be there for you.  They have families to take care of as well.  Plus a million people swarming from a city, some will be helpful and some will just want to take.  It is a bad thing to think about, but "It is better to have it and not use it, then to need it and not have it".

-Gary


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## Shuto (Feb 26, 2008)

How much self-defense do I need?  

With my current lifestyle and habits I consider heart disease and slipping on ice a greater danger to my well being than physical violence directed towards me.  It's a good thing that MA training helps me with all of these potential threats.


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## MJS (Feb 26, 2008)

shesulsa said:


> Take some time and really think about how much threat you really have in daily life and ask yourself what your daily needs are.
> 
> Some of us are in very dangerous areas and some of us are in the suburbs, some of us are out in public every single day, creatures of habit, others have more leisure opportunities than others ... there are many factors really.
> 
> ...


 
I think that many times, people feel that because they don't work, live or frequent 'bad' areas, that they don't need as much SD compared to someone who is the complete opposite.  However, just because you may live in a low crime area, not frequent bad sections, etc., doesn't mean, IMO, that one should neglect training.

I live in a pretty crime free town.  Sure, some minor things happen, compared to some of the larger cities, where shootings are an everyday thing, but just a few weeks ago, at a bar not far from where I live, there was a double shooting.  I was shocked when I saw this on the news.  

Personally, Id rather be over prepared, than under prepared.


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## MJS (Feb 26, 2008)

FearlessFreep said:


> This is something I asked myself a few months ago... well it's something I've asked myself all the time and I finally did something about it.
> 
> I'm a 38 yo white male computer programmer living a fairly upper-middle income lifestyle. The odds are in my favor that nothing un-toward will happen to me.
> 
> ...


 


geezer said:


> Sorry to disagree with what a lot of folks have posted, but I think the "freep" has a good point. A lot of people get really deep into self-defense training, imagining themselves up against the baddest dude out there. Then, after investing hours upon hours, training the most ruthless techniques, a part of them secretly "hopes" something will happen. I call that a recipe for disaster. Better to train awareness and avoidance, and work at being the best martial artist you can be.


 
For the most part, I agree with both posts.  I don't think that we should constantly hope that something happens so we can test ourselves.  I do think that its a mistake to assume that because we live or work in what seems to be a 'safe' area, that nothing will ever happen to us.  Cheshire, CT. is a pretty upscale town, yet a while back, there was a home invasion, which resulted in one person getting badly beaten, and his wife and two daughters killed.  This man was a highly respected doctor.  I'm sure nobody ever dreamed something like that would happen, but it did.

Personally, I'd rather train for the worst and not need it, than to be too lax in my training and need something I never got.

Mike


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## chinto (Feb 27, 2008)

MJS said:


> For the most part, I agree with both posts.  I don't think that we should constantly hope that something happens so we can test ourselves.  I do think that its a mistake to assume that because we live or work in what seems to be a 'safe' area, that nothing will ever happen to us.  Cheshire, CT. is a pretty upscale town, yet a while back, there was a home invasion, which resulted in one person getting badly beaten, and his wife and two daughters killed.  This man was a highly respected doctor.  I'm sure nobody ever dreamed something like that would happen, but it did.
> 
> Personally, I'd rather train for the worst and not need it, than to be too lax in my training and need something I never got.
> 
> Mike


I will put it this way, Katrina and the riots in LA and 911 and any other natural disaster will result in you being on your own for a bit. earth quake .. lots of things.. forest fire too.
At that point.. and even before as the cops do not have a duty to protect you or your family, you may have to do it your self! now no one who is half way intelligent wants to fight if they can avoid it, but if it goes that bad, you will not be able to avoid it! 
so prepare for the worst, and be very aware and hope you never do have to use that  training or the weapons I hope you own and know how to use too.


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## sgtmac_46 (Feb 27, 2008)

The question of how much self-defense you need is a lot like asking how much health or life insurance you need.....you don't need any if nothing bad happens....and if something bad DOES happen, what you bought never seems like enough.

More to the point, in order to be a fully independent and self-actualized human being, it necessitates that you be prepared for most conceivable eventualities....many folks buy first aid kits and a supply of food and water in case some event occurs where they are unable to receive immediate assistance....yet those same people feel paranoid in preparing for violence in that same situation.

'How much self-defense do you think you really need?'  That question can only be answered if you KNEW what the future would hold.  We seldom put just enough gas in our car to get us to our destination if we're capable of filling up the tank...why?


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## Imua Kuntao (Feb 27, 2008)

The real question should be "How much self-defense should you know"? You should train with every size person short, big, skinniy, fat, tall, many opponents, with and without weapons, and of course females. There are many situations and you might not get to them all because they all take time, a lifetime.


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## shesulsa (Feb 27, 2008)

This is all fine and well so far and great replies, folks. Keep them coming!

My major area of concern is there is a fervent desire for preparedness by many of us and I worry ... occasionally ... that this can be dissuading to others wanting to step foot in the world of self-defense, especially women.  It would be easy to look at people like us and call us paranoid, living in fear.

Some of us are preparing (if not prepared already) for the worst case possible scenarios in life.  We see this is sensible; others may view this as neurotic.

So are you preparing for guerrilla warfare? Are you preparing for religious persecution? Nuclear warfare?


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## Xue Sheng (Feb 27, 2008)

shesulsa said:


> My major area of concern is there is a fervent desire for preparedness by many of us and I worry ... occasionally ... that this can be dissuading to others wanting to step foot in the world of self-defense, especially women. It would be easy to look at people like us and call us paranoid, living in fear.
> 
> Some of us are preparing (if not prepared already) for the worst case possible scenarios in life. We see this is sensible; others may view this as neurotic.


 
I train martial arts because I enjoy it, because it is good for health and I can defend myself if necessary. I train to get more of an attitude like that of my sifus and past teachers to be comfortable in my own skin and aware of my surroundings so I likely do not need to fight at all. I do not consider myself paranoid or living in fear. As I previously stated I was in a situation that gave me the feeling that I was not going to win but I was not afraid or paranoid if that were in NYC (or any major US city) I would have been dead on in my feeling but I was more worried about those I was with I had resigned myself to the fact that I was at best going to give them time to get away. And that awareness I attribute to my MA training and Qigong training as well. Luckily I had misjudged the situation and nothing came of it hopefully I never find myself there again but if I do I hope to be better prepared that is all.



shesulsa said:


> So are you preparing for guerrilla warfare? Are you preparing for religious persecution? Nuclear warfare?



Religious persecution!? Well my family history has it in it but none trained MA or fighting they basically got kicked out of a country (Ok there was a bit more than religious persecution there but it was part of it) and later snuck away in the night to avoid being killed in another country and that was hard core religious persecution. 

As for the rest if I was I would not be training CMA or even Sanda for that matter I would be looking more to modern weapons for training although Sanda is modern Kung Fu for the military it is a last resort after guns and if I were training for any of what you mentioned I would be training more with Guns.

Except of course nuclear warfare then I would be training Duck and Cover :uhyeah:


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## geezer (Feb 27, 2008)

tempus said:


> I believe I need as much as I can get. I train for the possibility that I may have to use that training someday. I work and live in nice areas. Do I go out into the workd everyday paranoid no, but I do make sure I am aware of what is going on around me. How many people were out for a walk in a nice mall with family friends when they take a bullet to the back? Anything can happen at any time.
> 
> My father also drilled into me that when I was older that I should have firearms in the house, which I do. If there is ever a national crisis the police will not be there for you. They have families to take care of as well. Plus a million people swarming from a city, some will be helpful and some will just want to take. It is a bad thing to think about, but "It is better to have it and not use it, then to need it and not have it".
> 
> -Gary


 
OK, my problem with the super-survivalist state of mind is *not* that I don't believe that you should be prepared. I agree with that. It's just that if you expect the worst, you are likely to find it... or create it! It all really boils down to attitude.  Many years ago I was assisting a friend who taught a self defense class. A student in the class confided in me that he would not continue after the end of the current session since he need to save his money to buy more guns. Why? To prepare for the invasion from Mexico. "Oh", I responded. "Why not do what I'm doing...take Spanish classes". El que a hierro mata, a hierro muere.


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## Bodhisattva (Feb 27, 2008)

shesulsa said:


> Take some time and really think about how much threat you really have in daily life and ask yourself what your daily needs are.
> 
> Some of us are in very dangerous areas and some of us are in the suburbs, some of us are out in public every single day, creatures of habit, others have more leisure opportunities than others ... there are many factors really.
> 
> ...



I don't think I'll ever be in a "fight" or a "defense" situation again in this lifetime.

The "awareness" stage is the most important stage of self-defense and that has kept me safe for the past 12 years without a single altercation. 

However, I do train in martial arts for reasons of utility - I train as if I might someday have to defend myself.  That doesn't mean I promote a grim spirit at our studio - quite the opposite.  But we train for utility - for functional self-defense.  

We just do it with a smile and a lot of fun and play.

So, while I don't live my life paranoid that I "need to defend myself" I do still train for effectiveness / utility.

But mostly because its fun.


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## arnisador (Feb 27, 2008)

sgtmac_46 said:


> More to the point, in order to be a fully independent and self-actualized human being, it necessitates that you be prepared for most conceivable eventualities....many folks buy first aid kits and a supply of food and water in case some event occurs where they are unable to receive immediate assistance....yet those same people feel paranoid in preparing for violence in that same situation.



Well...one can only go so far in preparing and still have good quality of life. In addition, there are trade-offs. Do I put all my time in CQC training in case of attack, or in amassing wealth so I'll be likely to be able to stay away from problem areas? If I'm worried about nuclear attacks I should move to the far countryside, but if I'm worried about heart attacks I shouldn't be so far from a hospital.



Imua Kuntao said:


> The real question should be "How much self-defense should you know"?



I think that's a fair question. 

The fact that so few martial artists own and learn how to use firearms is evidence to my mind that self-defense/self-preservation is not their primary goal. (And that's OK.) Earthquakes? Riots? Choose a shotgun over a side kick.


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## kidswarrior (Feb 27, 2008)

Xue Sheng said:


> Except of course nuclear warfare then I would be training Duck and Cover :uhyeah:


Any old timers here remember the 50s when the air raid sirens went off for the once-a-month drill in every city, and we grade schoolers had to duck and cover. Yeah, those little student desks would be great protection for a nuclear attack.  But the other possibilities, yeah I guess those are part of why I train.

This says it best:


			
				Xue Sheng said:
			
		

> I train martial arts because I enjoy it, because it is good for health and I can defend myself if necessary. I train to get more of an attitude like that of my sifus and past teachers to be comfortable in my own skin and aware of my surroundings so I likely do not need to fight at all.


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## MJS (Feb 27, 2008)

shesulsa said:


> This is all fine and well so far and great replies, folks. Keep them coming!
> 
> My major area of concern is there is a fervent desire for preparedness by many of us and I worry ... occasionally ... that this can be dissuading to others wanting to step foot in the world of self-defense, especially women. It would be easy to look at people like us and call us paranoid, living in fear.
> 
> Some of us are preparing (if not prepared already) for the worst case possible scenarios in life. We see this is sensible; others may view this as neurotic.


 
I suppose this would now fall into the categories of people who train.  Some train for SD, some train for something to do after work or school, some train to lose weight, etc.  So, IMO, someone there to lose weight will probably view someone whos main goal is SD, as one of those neurotic people.  Personally, while we reap the benefits of all those other things, ie: weight loss, friends, I've always felt that learning SD should be the #1 goal.  For myself, I don't need the arts to lose weight...I can go to the gym or workout in my own house.  I don't need the arts to make friends...I have many from outside the arts.

Now, to play devils advocate for a minute...when you said this:



> My major area of concern is there is a fervent desire for preparedness by many of us and I worry ... occasionally ... that this can be dissuading to others wanting to step foot in the world of self-defense, especially women. It would be easy to look at people like us and call us paranoid, living in fear.


 
technically, this can dissuade people who are serious about training, from stepping on the mat, because they be working with people who are not as serious as they are.  




> So are you preparing for guerrilla warfare? Are you preparing for religious persecution? Nuclear warfare?


 
No.


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## MJS (Feb 27, 2008)

geezer said:


> OK, my problem with the super-survivalist state of mind is *not* that I don't believe that you should be prepared. I agree with that. It's just that if you expect the worst, you are likely to find it... or create it!


 
Well, speaking for myself only, I don't go out looking for or hoping that I get into trouble.  I don't frequent bars or clubs, I do my best to avoid bad sections and I do my best to be aware of my surroundings.  Now, if we look at the typical material that is taught in a MA class, we should see defenses for a number of attacks.  I train knife defense, however, I may never have a knife pulled on me.  I do the same for guns, and thankfully, I've never had one pulled on me.  

Maybe I'm not quite following the underlined statement.  Not quite sure how I'm going to find it or create it.  Again, I don't go looking for trouble, but if one day, I do find myself facing a blade, I want to make sure that I have some solid defense to fall back on. 

Mike


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## Em MacIntosh (Feb 27, 2008)

I struggle with pessimism and am somewhat of a creature of extremes.  Once someone has decided to get physical I assume the absolute worst and am prepared to respond with deadly force.  I'm extremely reactive, tense and wound up and always feel somewhat threatened unless I'm in my apartment with the doors locked.  I go from meek to psycho almost instantly because I'm TERRIFIED of what can happen, training or not, in a threatening situation.  Needless to say I keep to myself when I can.  The martial arts are seperate from these kind of events for me (though the muscle memory is ingrained) and the "animal rage" has saved my life before.


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## zDom (Feb 27, 2008)

I have no idea of what the future holds, but I know in the past I have been stabbed on one occassion and beaten nearly to death on another. Wish I knew (and was training in) then what I know now 

I believe my chances of having to defend myself in the future are low as I make better choices (because of martial arts), I look less like a victim (increased confidence, because of martial arts), and I'm older.

I know I do enjoy not living in fear of someone "imposing their will" on me as statistically there are few people who are likely to do so without a weapon or an overwhelming advantage in numbers.

I probably had all I "needed" 10 years ago. But it is nice to continue to improve my odds of coming out on top in a self-defense (or family/friends defense!) situation while I simultaneously maintain my mental and physical well being through vigorous training.


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## lcortez (Mar 15, 2008)

Hello there,newbie again.My opinion is that good awareness of you surroundings is the cornerstone of good self defense.By this I mean familiarise yourself with any new neighbouhood that you may miove to,as in know where the bad areas are,where the rowdy bars are etc. Also be aware of your surroundings on a day to day basis.
Personally speaking in my youth I have been shot,stabbed,baseball batted,and even gassed, all could have been avoided by good awareness, (and losing the tough guy mentality).
I think awareness,combined with strong self confidence cover a lot of the bases, as most aggressors sem to be looking for an easy victim.
In technical terms, I dont believe you need a technique for every situation,just a strong reportoire of basic techniques.


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## Big Don (Mar 15, 2008)

You don't need any self-defense to be a victim. I, like most of us here, choose not to be a victim, so I train accordingly.


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## Rich Parsons (Mar 15, 2008)

shesulsa said:


> Take some time and really think about how much threat you really have in daily life and ask yourself what your daily needs are.


 
"G", I have lots to say on this subject about myself and about the average person and about the average person I work with. You might be surprised. And then again you might not.  

I think as you and most likely others have stated it will depend upon people location and occupation and income levels. 



shesulsa said:


> Some of us are in very dangerous areas and some of us are in the suburbs, some of us are out in public every single day, creatures of habit, others have more leisure opportunities than others ... there are many factors really.


 
I have worked, lived and hung out in dangerous areas. But for me today, my most exposure even at the sports bars I go to in nicer areas are not where I could get my problems. It is at work. Yes it is at work. 



shesulsa said:


> But what I find interesting is while there is a *strong* need by some for some on this board, I have been pondering the Urban Warrior axiom and some knock-off questions like, ...


 
Self Defense is portant and awareness is the first key to self defense and also to survival. But for most they can go through life unaware and still never have a problem. 




shesulsa said:


> can you be prepared and not lose your sense of humanity?


 
Yes. I actually have an over dose of humanity. I help the injured animal on the side of the road. I help those who are broke down on the side of the road. I step in when I see someone getting hurt. I am not super man nor am I trying to make a big man of myself. I just cannot stand or tolerate it when people are getting hurt and I can do something about it.

Yes, I have been hurt for it , but I also think those I helped were hurt a lot less. Now, I agree I am not in places to see it as much as I used too, but I still react. I still watch people, I still smile at the joy a child playing with a pet. 



shesulsa said:


> ...and can you walk without fear AND without a weapon?


 
Without Fear? Yes. Fear is the Mind Killer.  Ok, I stole that from Mr. Herbert. But I think fear leads to paranoia. Awareness is good, and just short of paranoia is good. 

Can I walk without weapons. Qualified No. We have a policy at work that no weapons are allowed. A agreement to employement they can search your vehicle. But the problem I have is that I am still a weapon myself and I have a brain so every item I see and touch is also a weapon. 

If a person has honestly made the decision to kill someone in thier life, then the weapon of choice it not an issue. The choice for me is what weapon is in the reach of my hands or how to I get to it or survive long enough to get what I need. 




shesulsa said:


> and various other fever-induced questions over the last few days.
> 
> Thanks.


 
I have had a fever for the last few days and I know what that can lead too.  


As to my work mentioned above:

We have mechanics and union workes who have seen the occasional bar fight. Then there are those that have had some military training as well. 

I have run across some of these guys who think because I am an engineer I will be a push over if they yell at me. I have had some threaten me even in a plant with a nice big pipe wrench. I ask them, if they woudl like to take this off property as the only way to loose your job straight out is violence. Being drunk or on drugs can be blamed on stress. Violence requires lots of visits to doctors and no way to make sure you get your job back. 

I had one boss in a one on one start to shake and yell and he balled up his fist in anger (* not sure what he was angry at the time but he was vented it on me *). My first thought was not hit as I would kill him and given the location of the meeting room we were in there was no way I could get the body out and hide. (* My honest first thought was not that it woudl be a bad thing to kill him in self defense but that I could not gide it and that no one would believe he was being this stupid. *) the next month he started the same thing. The first thought in my brain was do not laugh as ther was no recovery form laughter. He was made about hsi job and about a recent reorganization. 

Also at work we contract out our cleaning services. These services for the longest times went to the lowest bidders who hired conveicted felons. Of course they did a back ground check as required but they got to work until their paper work came back. In the mean time they knew this and would steal anything not nailed down. Picture Frames, pop cans, and even computers/lap tops. After it happened to me and I got invovled and got in securities face about their lack of real security, and that I had handed them the person with my investigation but no one would write down my statement.  I was either being racist or classist. The guy was white and I am white on paper. I do not see this, other than he was a thief, and yes they did catch him after I told everyone in security about their screw up and my bosses and the directors who would call to make sure I had the latest security memo. Those directors got an earful and I am sure they were not happy with my comments. But the team was stupid. I saw them taking out multiple units with multiple people. The lead who they busted was the only one they were watching (* I guess I was not clear enough that more could be involved *) and they dropped the bags and units and walked away. So they got away with it that time. Except the lead person who did get captured.

These guys they hire now range from thsoe that walk and talk to themselves. Mostly harmless but I am not so sure, as when you try ot be polite they get angry with you. Not even a head nod or eye to eye acknowledgement is ok. Then some are out and out thugs, just not thieves. I gave the head nod to one guy and he stopped as he was not watching me but watching those around him. I stopped and smiled and said yes? He said you are not afraid of a 6'5" 400 black guy. I said nope. Why should I be. But you looked at me and recognized me as a person which means you know I could hurt someone. I laughed and told him that those around here would not notice hium as he was not part of their group. He laughed and also was thinking the same thing. 

Then there is the threats from the senior mangement that yell and pound and scream. I just smile and laugh on the inside. One touch with a little pain involved and they would have a whole new look on life. 


So, for me, I use self defense tactics at work everyday. Some to keep my job and life style. Others to defend myself from possible bad guys who work there and also from those who think they are bad guys as they are used to dealing with push overs. 

But then again I never said I did anything normal.


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## sgtmac_46 (Mar 16, 2008)

I've given some thought to it, and the question 'How much self-defense do you think you really need' is a lot like asking how much health and life insurance do you think you really need?  

The answer is 'As much as you can afford!'


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## Hawke (Mar 29, 2008)

I train mainly for the enjoyment of training.

I also cross train in areas that I feel weak in.

I will continue to train throughout my life.

No matter how many years go by, I always learn something new.

I practice some of the techniques over and over again and every now and then see it from a different point of view (especially when cross training with someone from a different art).

We keep ourselves sharp through practice.


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