# New school



## watching (Mar 22, 2018)

I'm still fairly new to my school and while I like it over all, there is someone in the beginner's class with me who I really dislike training with for a number of reasons. I've been involved in martial arts since I was eight years old so I have trained along side all kinds of people and consider myself to be tolerant and respectful. It baffles me why this person is training as he has been there close to two years and has only passed one belt test, is never able to perform the material, and hasn't shown improvement in the time I've been there. 
I guess I'm just wondering if this is a bad sign that my school is too willing to accept anyone as long as they're willing to pay. I mean, this student isn't disrespectful or anything but it's frustrating to train with someone who has been there longer than I have yet can't do the material. I think I'm also wondering if it would ever get to a point that an instructor might ask a student to leave if no progress is being made.
I hope this makes sense and I'm not coming off as disrespectful.


----------



## drop bear (Mar 22, 2018)

Some people just don't progress at martial arts very fast. And yes you kind of are being judgemental.

By the way if a guy keeps turning up we will keep training him. That is the commitment. The school makes to the student. And the student makes to the school.


----------



## pdg (Mar 22, 2018)

By who's opinion have they not shown improvement?

If it's your opinion, in what way are you qualified to judge?

I don't know how old you are, so saying you've been involved since you were 8 is pretty meaningless if you're 14. Even if you're 40, it still doesn't _necessarily_ mean you've really absorbed anything...

If someone isn't progressing as fast as everyone else, why should the instructor tell them to leave if they're not being disrespectful or disruptive?

In my couple of years I've overtaken quite a few other people, but all that means is I'm on my journey, not theirs. Even though they've been attending a couple of years longer than me, I still help them when asked, they don't take it badly and I don't think it makes me superior. I just know more.

Things like I make extra time outside class to study and practice make a difference to me, who knows if they've got that opportunity to prioritise their MA studies - not me.

Focus on yourself, be what you want to be and let them do likewise.


----------



## hoshin1600 (Mar 22, 2018)

i know people who have been training for 50 years and i can say, it doesnt look like they got any better in the last 30 years.  
as @pdg  said focus on yourself.  other people's progress is not your concern.  if you find it frustrating to work with this person the question should be why do you feel that way?  why does this persons actions effect you?


----------



## Gerry Seymour (Mar 22, 2018)

watching said:


> I'm still fairly new to my school and while I like it over all, there is someone in the beginner's class with me who I really dislike training with for a number of reasons. I've been involved in martial arts since I was eight years old so I have trained along side all kinds of people and consider myself to be tolerant and respectful. It baffles me why this person is training as he has been there close to two years and has only passed one belt test, is never able to perform the material, and hasn't shown improvement in the time I've been there.
> I guess I'm just wondering if this is a bad sign that my school is too willing to accept anyone as long as they're willing to pay. I mean, this student isn't disrespectful or anything but it's frustrating to train with someone who has been there longer than I have yet can't do the material. I think I'm also wondering if it would ever get to a point that an instructor might ask a student to leave if no progress is being made.
> I hope this makes sense and I'm not coming off as disrespectful.


I've taught people who made no real progress. Most of them were kids, but I've had a few adults who just...didn't. A couple of them, it was an internal issue - they just didn't have the will to hit and fight, so they were always going so soft that they couldn't really make anything work properly. The others just didn't seem to be very "present" in their training - it was like they expected that going through the motions was all that was required. Most of them don't stay more than a month or two, but at least one I can think of stayed around for a couple of years. It was never fun to work with her, so I rotated her from partner to partner as much as possible. But I kept trying.

It's a tough call as an instructor. Do you clear them out to raise the average in the room? I probably would today with those just going through the motions. But those with no fire, who weren't progressing - I'd still keep trying as long as they kept showing up. For me, if they are trying, I'll try. If I feel like they aren't, I'll have a talk with them and find out why not, and maybe (depending upon the talk) suggest they find a more suitable hobby.


----------



## Danny T (Mar 22, 2018)

I will take any student who has a good attitude toward others and training.
It is about helping people grow not just in physical skill but mental attitude, can do spirit, and Never Giving Up.
Some will grow and be outstanding martial artists, some will grow and be average martial artist, some will grow and be below average. However skilled they become All who come and continue to train will grow into better people.


----------



## Headhunter (Mar 22, 2018)

So the guys not a natural talent so you reckon they should kick him out....yeah I really hope you don't ever teach. There are some who just aren't that good and will always struggle. That's not a bad thing that's the way life goes at times. If the guys turning up trying his best who are you to judge him. He's only done one belt so what maybe he doesn't want belts. If he's not actually bothering you then frankly it's none of your business what he does.

Frankly yes you are being disrespectful whys it frustrating to you martial arts is an individual sport not a team sport unless your doing specific team competitions so its not like his skill or lack of is affecting your training


----------



## oftheherd1 (Mar 22, 2018)

Everyone is being a little harsh, maybe more than necessary.  But their points are good ones and maybe you should adjust your attitude a little.  I would also suggest you talk to your teacher.  He may choose to tell you why that person is still welcome as a student.  Or not.  But as mentioned, your real commitment is to your own improvement. 

Learning how to deal with such people as you describe may also be of benefit to you should you ever decide to, or be required to, teach as well.


----------



## pdg (Mar 22, 2018)

OP would probably think the same of me if she came to the same kickboxing class.

I've only done a couple of belt tests, I haven't massively progressed, other people who started around the same time are almost on brown...

I participate, I spar, but really it's more of a cardio exercise session for me.

I choose to concentrate on TKD, so that's my priority.

Does anyone think I'm wasting their time with my presence? Honestly I neither know nor care...


----------



## Headhunter (Mar 22, 2018)

oftheherd1 said:


> Everyone is being a little harsh, maybe more than necessary.  But their points are good ones and maybe you should adjust your attitude a little.  I would also suggest you talk to your teacher.  He may choose to tell you why that person is still welcome as a student.  Or not.  But as mentioned, your real commitment is to your own improvement.
> 
> Learning how to deal with such people as you describe may also be of benefit to you should you ever decide to, or be required to, teach as well.


I don't think anyone's saying anything harsh. Think it like this imagine you're trying your best in class and you're not doing great but you keep trying then you have someone going round saying you should be kicked out the club how would that make you feel?


----------



## oftheherd1 (Mar 22, 2018)

Headhunter said:


> I don't think anyone's saying anything harsh. Think it like this imagine you're trying your best in class and you're not doing great but you keep trying then you have someone going round saying you should be kicked out the club how would that make you feel?



I don't think the points are harsh, but perhaps the delivery to a new person on MT isn't very friendly.  Just my opinion.  If you don't agree I understand and don't take umbrage.  I can only hope no one else takes umbrage. 

I would guess we all just need to see the tenor of any future posts by the OP.


----------



## Headhunter (Mar 22, 2018)

oftheherd1 said:


> I don't think the points are harsh, but perhaps the delivery to a new person on MT isn't very friendly.  Just my opinion.  If you don't agree I understand and don't take umbrage.  I can only hope no one else takes umbrage.
> 
> I would guess we all just need to see the tenor of any future posts by the OP.


Sure but his first post on here isn't very friendly either


----------



## oftheherd1 (Mar 22, 2018)

pdg said:


> OP would probably think the same of me if she came to the same kickboxing class.



When I first started studying TKD, you would have thought I was the most terrible person to teach you had ever seen, and I probably was.  When I began studying Hapkido, even I thought I was so uncoordinated as to be a candidate for medical intervention.


----------



## wab25 (Mar 22, 2018)

I have more respect for the guy who continues to train, despite not being able to progress. It's easy to come and train when you are talented and when you get it, when you are moving up through the ranks. It's much harder to continue to train, when it is slow and you are not showing the progression. I look up to those people, they become my inspiration, especially when I hit my own plateaus. It's almost like these people have found what they are looking for, in the training and not in the thingy that keeps their gi closed.


----------



## pdg (Mar 22, 2018)

wab25 said:


> not in the thingy that keeps their gi closed



I wear a dobok, not a gi...

And, it has a zip to keep it closed


----------



## oftheherd1 (Mar 22, 2018)

Headhunter said:


> Sure but his first post on here isn't very friendly either



That is true, but the OP has admitted to that possibility.


----------



## pdg (Mar 22, 2018)

@watching - how long have you been going to this school?


----------



## oftheherd1 (Mar 22, 2018)

pdg said:


> I wear a dobok, not a gi...
> 
> And, it has a zip to keep it closed



A zipper? and you quibble over the name?


----------



## pdg (Mar 22, 2018)

oftheherd1 said:


> A zipper? and you quibble over the name?



I believe the zip was introduced by the ITF in 1982 as part of the then 'new' dobok (or dobak, depending on which romanisation you prefer ).

So y'know, traditional by now


----------



## oftheherd1 (Mar 22, 2018)

pdg said:


> I believe the zip was introduced by the ITF in 1982 as part of the then 'new' dobok (or dobak, depending on which romanisation you prefer ).
> 
> So y'know, traditional by now



I guess I just need to get out more.


----------



## pdg (Mar 22, 2018)

oftheherd1 said:


> I guess I just need to get out more.



One of us might, just which one is up for debate


----------



## watching (Mar 22, 2018)

Thank you everyone. I honestly don't feel like anyone was being harsh. I appreciate all the different perspectives as it gives me more to consider. I agree with those saying that my frustration lies more with myself then this student. It's true, athletics and martial arts has always come easily to me. I think I should approach this as a challenge for me to gain more patience, understanding, and acceptance. Again, I apprciate everyone's view on this thread and don't mind the direct or blunt responses, they are actually helpful to me. I guess I need to be respectful of this student's individual journey and stay more concerned with my own instead of comparing.


----------



## watching (Mar 22, 2018)

pdg said:


> @watching - how long have you been going to this school?


one year


----------



## pdg (Mar 22, 2018)

watching said:


> one year



See my previous posts...

In the last year I feel I've progressed hugely in TKD.

In kickboxing? Not so much... Fitness is still improving (slowing down as time goes on, diminishing returns and all that) but technique wise I don't think I've come on all that much.


----------



## Gerry Seymour (Mar 22, 2018)

watching said:


> Thank you everyone. I honestly don't feel like anyone was being harsh. I appreciate all the different perspectives as it gives me more to consider. I agree with those saying that my frustration lies more with myself then this student. It's true, athletics and martial arts has always come easily to me. I think I should approach this as a challenge for me to gain more patience, understanding, and acceptance. Again, I apprciate everyone's view on this thread and don't mind the direct or blunt responses, they are actually helpful to me. I guess I need to be respectful of this student's individual journey and stay more concerned with my own instead of comparing.


As long as the other person is trying, it's their journey, so hang onto the attitude you show in this post. And when you are working with someone who is not at your level (whether because they are new, because they are slow to progress, or because they aren't trying very hard), use it as a challenge to find something at their level you need to work on. There will always be something.


----------



## jks9199 (Mar 22, 2018)

I have a student who has been training with us for about 2 years.  He comes, he participates, he tries... he just doesn't make a lot of progress.  I admit; sometimes I get frustrated as he needs something repeated yet again...  but I'm not throwing him out the door.  Things don't come easy for everyone.  He keeps trying.  Maybe he's a lesson for me that I need to keep trying, too...

It probably frustrates classmates, too...  but he brings a positive energy, he sometimes asks good questions...  and he's helpful in many other ways.


----------



## watching (Mar 22, 2018)

jks9199 said:


> I have a student who has been training with us for about 2 years.  He comes, he participates, he tries... he just doesn't make a lot of progress.  I admit; sometimes I get frustrated as he needs something repeated yet again...  but I'm not throwing him out the door.  Things don't come easy for everyone.  He keeps trying.  Maybe he's a lesson for me that I need to keep trying, too...
> 
> It probably frustrates classmates, too...  but he brings a positive energy, he sometimes asks good questions...  and he's helpful in many other ways.


You sound like a wonderful teacher. I guess my attitude has been pretty shitty, I kind of feel bad now. I'm going to make an effort to find good things about students like this and do my best to learn from them too. Thank you for the perspective.


----------



## Gerry Seymour (Mar 22, 2018)

watching said:


> You sound like a wonderful teacher. I guess my attitude has been pretty shitty, I kind of feel bad now. I'm going to make an effort to find good things about students like this and do my best to learn from them too. Thank you for the perspective.


Don't worry too much about what your attitude was (unless it was communicated to others, then maybe a quick apology). Just focus on what you want it to be from now on. We all have times we look back and aren't really happy about what we did or how we acted, but it's all good as long as we continue to learn and grow.


----------



## AngryHobbit (Mar 22, 2018)

watching said:


> Thank you everyone. I honestly don't feel like anyone was being harsh. I appreciate all the different perspectives as it gives me more to consider. I agree with those saying that my frustration lies more with myself then this student. It's true, athletics and martial arts has always come easily to me. I think I should approach this as a challenge for me to gain more patience, understanding, and acceptance. Again, I apprciate everyone's view on this thread and don't mind the direct or blunt responses, they are actually helpful to me. I guess I need to be respectful of this student's individual journey and stay more concerned with my own instead of comparing.


2-1/2 years ago I came back to training after a 6-year hiatus. I had to pretty much start over, and, if we go strictly by the rank, I haven't progressed much. Does it frustrate me at times that, after reaching the assistant instructor rank, I am back in the sandbox? Sure. However, I continue to train despite the physical limitations that arose during this time, even though there is sometimes a strong temptation to just quit. I am also learning a lot about other aspects outside of my art and being a better fighter, rather than a higher belt rank (not always the same thing). 

I do my best to apply the philosophy of my yoga instructors to my MA training: worry about what goes on within the boundaries of your yoga mat. So, that's what I do my best to worry about - what goes on with my hands, and my feet, and my back, and my falls, rolls, kicks, technique, etc.


----------



## Tames D (Mar 22, 2018)

Headhunter said:


> Sure but his first post on here isn't very friendly either


He is a She.


----------



## Buka (Mar 22, 2018)

watching said:


> You sound like a wonderful teacher. I guess my attitude has been pretty shitty, I kind of feel bad now. I'm going to make an effort to find good things about students like this and do my best to learn from them too. Thank you for the perspective.



No worries, watching, just train and have a ball doing it. 

And if you keep training.....it gets even better.


----------



## KenpoMaster805 (Mar 23, 2018)

oh you been training for 1 year now thats awesome what belt are you if i may ask.? heheh you have to understand that we are all different in many way some would do the technique fast and some do it slow and also our thinking is different i might agree with you i might not so yap dont get in patient with your partner and critizing her or him maybe he wana take his or her time or he or she just wanna do it in slow phase ive seen some people in my karate class some are slow some are moving fast. so just be patient with your eventually he or she will catch up. instead of saying i dont wana train with you your to slow or your not doing your technique right encourage him or her make her or  special and tell him or her you can do it your doing good and if he or she makes a mistake you will say its all good and show him or her the way how to do the technique. i help teach so i know how to deal with student or my partner in karate and guess what im a slow learner too i was diagnose when i was sophomore i have learning disability but that dont stop me from learning and teaching. It took me a while to test for my 2nd brown because i wasnt ready at the time but now im so ready to test.  Imaging my partner will say to me you take to long to learn your technique and form you are not studying im not gonna teach you anything that would been worst hehehe

so ya just help your karate partner and you and him or her will do great as karate partner


----------



## watching (Mar 23, 2018)

KenpoMaster805 said:


> oh you been training for 1 year now thats awesome what belt are you if i may ask.? heheh you have to understand that we are all different in many way some would do the technique fast and some do it slow and also our thinking is different i might agree with you i might not so yap dont get in patient with your partner and critizing her or him maybe he wana take his or her time or he or she just wanna do it in slow phase ive seen some people in my karate class some are slow some are moving fast. so just be patient with your eventually he or she will catch up. instead of saying i dont wana train with you your to slow or your not doing your technique right encourage him or her make her or  special and tell him or her you can do it your doing good and if he or she makes a mistake you will say its all good and show him or her the way how to do the technique. i help teach so i know how to deal with student or my partner in karate and guess what im a slow learner too i was diagnose when i was sophomore i have learning disability but that dont stop me from learning and teaching. It took me a while to test for my 2nd brown because i wasnt ready at the time but now im so ready to test.  Imaging my partner will say to me you take to long to learn your technique and form you are not studying im not gonna teach you anything that would been worst hehehe
> 
> so ya just help your karate partner and you and him or her will do great as karate partner


I am an orange belt in JSK


----------



## WaterGal (Mar 23, 2018)

pdg said:


> I believe the zip was introduced by the ITF in 1982 as part of the then 'new' dobok (or dobak, depending on which romanisation you prefer ).
> 
> So y'know, traditional by now



We had it romanized as "dobak" on our word list... until a Korean dad of a student told us that "do bak" means "gambling".


----------



## KenpoMaster805 (Mar 23, 2018)

watching said:


> I am an orange belt in JSK



Thats awesome soon you be purple belt keep it up


----------

