# Internal Power Nonsense



## DanT (Jan 28, 2017)

How come almost every time I see a video of short power or internal power being demonstrated, the attacker puts his arms on the internal practitioner, the internal practitioner does something resembling twerking, and then the attacker starts stomping his or her feet and shaking his or her head pretending they're off balance ridiculously poorly. Like for real?


----------



## JP3 (Jan 29, 2017)

I don't know what you've been watching, but I've had hands on Howard Popkin (Long Island, NY Daito-Ryu guy) and while he's not truly at heart an internal power practitioner, he told me that working with Dan Harden changed his outlook on a lot of things he's been doing for more than 30 years.

   That's not to say that what's on youtube doesn't look like BS.


----------



## JR 137 (Jan 29, 2017)

DanT said:


> How come almost every time I see a video of short power or internal power being demonstrated, the attacker puts his arms on the internal practitioner, the internal practitioner does something resembling twerking, and then the attacker starts stomping his or her feet and shaking his or her head pretending they're off balance ridiculously poorly. Like for real?



I think most of the people in those videos are genuine and aren't faking it for the camera.

But that doesn't mean it's real either.  Expectation bias, a form of hypnosis, etc.  Call it what you will, just don't think it'll work on someone who's not buying into it.


----------



## greytowhite (Jan 29, 2017)

Yeah what you're describing is mostly ******** and the people have fallen for a play. I've seen it work on the unsuspecting, sometimes it's pressure point stuff, sometimes it's mesmerism, sometimes it's sheer belief.

There are people with real skill that is quite different out there. I recommend looking up my own teacher Lloyd Day here in Phoenix - he has a skill unlike any other I have encountered. Sometimes the lightest brush of his hand will feel as if I have been sliced to the bone. He has this uncanny ability to resist a person with a single finger. I've seen Lloyd teach people how to position their bodies to replicate some of what he does. After training with him for two years I've literally punched practice partners and sent them flying.

I have touched hands with students of Chen Zhonghua, Sam Chin, Bruce Kumar Frantzis, He Jinbao, Liu Xiaoling, Chen Xiaowang, Peter Ralston, Garrett Gee, Michio Hikitsuchi and more and it is a very different feeling from each of these styles but these have more in common than they would in sensation than say a standard wing chun player, kickboxer, or a good BJJ guy. There's this torsional screw power that can be expressed only with enough relaxation and training. Certain external alignments as well as coordinations of the limbs create sensations that once you pay attention to them you can reproduce outside of the forms in fights. It can be manifested in so many ways dependent on the intent behind what is done to an opponent. Truly amazing work at times but it is a long process to bring it to fruition to be used in a fight.


----------



## DanT (Jan 29, 2017)

Watch 9:15 of this video to see what I'm talking about :


----------



## 23rdwave (Jan 29, 2017)

I liked the video. Focus on the teacher not the students' reactions.


----------



## KangTsai (Jan 30, 2017)

JR 137 said:


> I think most of the people in those videos are genuine and aren't faking it for the camera.
> 
> But that doesn't mean it's real either.  Expectation bias, a form of hypnosis, etc.  Call it what you will, just don't think it'll work on someone who's not buying into it.


I'll be sure to try hypnotising the next man with a gun pointed to me.


----------



## mograph (Jan 30, 2017)

I would watch a video on martial twerking.


Depending on who was doing the twerking, of course.


----------



## greytowhite (Jan 30, 2017)

23rdwave said:


> I liked the video. Focus on the teacher not the students' reactions.



Yeah Adam uses his body well and his student is compliant for a demonstration. The language might be flowery but that's how taijiquan is taught sometimes. I've had teachers do far odder things to me, I've been sent spinning and skipping out of push hands before simply because it was either do that or fall and break something. This was from a teacher who spoke nothing of qi, he just knew how to take advantage of the severe scoliosis I had when I started the internal arts.


----------



## Xue Sheng (Jan 30, 2017)

This is Tung Hu Ling and I have experienced this first hand, not doing push hands with Tung Hu Ling, but with my shifu. Tung Hu Ling and my Shifu had the same teacher, Tung Ying Chieh.






They stay incredibly relaxed while they throw you around like a rag doll and my Shifu tends to always have a little smile on his face, no matter what you are trying to do as well as when he knocks you to the floor.

Admittedly there is a lot of Internal Power Nonsense out there, but this is not nonsense, it is a lot of relaxation, a lot of experience learning how to feel what your opponent is doing (which is what push hands is about), and of course proper alignment...all of which translates to a lot of training, years of it actually.


----------



## Nobody Important (Feb 5, 2017)

I have experienced some interesting encounters when sparring with two of my Shifu's. I would be hesitant to call it internal power as much as I would describe it as proper use of structure, technique and use of force. Never have I reacted as dramatically as many in these videos, but I have been suddenly dropped or flung by seemingly little effort or have made what I thought would be heavy contact only to feel as if I completely whiffed. Good structure, timing and sensitivity can make things seem almost unnatural. This, in my opinion, has nothing to do with qi, just good awareness and mechanics.


----------



## JP3 (Feb 5, 2017)

mograph said:


> I would watch a video on martial twerking.
> 
> 
> Depending on who was doing the twerking, of course.



Ronda Rousey, maybe? If she was wearing the party dress she was wearing in the one movie she was in....

Ziyi Zhang?


The 15 Hottest Female Fighters in Martial Arts Movies


----------



## greytowhite (Feb 5, 2017)

Nobody Important said:


> This, in my opinion, has nothing to do with qi, just good awareness and mechanics.



I think a lot of people attached something mystical to a very practical and grounded training process. Thanks to the dumbass hippies in the '60s that decided to put out this whole ***** ball to the world really. The thing is people just don't understand that it's a Chinese culture thing... linguistic thing more than magic.


----------



## Kung Fu Wang (Feb 5, 2017)

DanT said:


> How come almost every time I see a video of short power or internal power being demonstrated, the attacker puts his arms on the internal practitioner, ...


I have asked the following question for many years. How come all the "internal" demos are "push"? You just don't see a

- punch on the head, or
- kick on the belly?


----------



## DanT (Feb 5, 2017)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> I have asked the following question for many years. How come all the "internal" demos are "push"? You just don't see a
> 
> - punch on the head, or
> - kick on the belly?


I agree. There are plenty of other techniques that are infinitely more useful in a fight, and all i ever see are one inch punches and various pushes.


----------



## 23rdwave (Feb 5, 2017)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> I have asked the following question for many years. How come all the "internal" demos are "push"? You just don't see a
> 
> - punch on the head, or
> - kick on the belly?



Watch the video starting at 3:15. Dan Harden knows how to punch on the head.


----------



## greytowhite (Feb 6, 2017)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> You just don't see a
> 
> - kick on the belly?



Regarding this, B.K. Frantzis demonstrated the ability to launch one of his senior students from receiving a back kick in his lower dantian in his Bagua Mastery Program videos. That said, it was setup, fairly cooperative, and you'd have to pay a ridiculous amount of money just to see such a demo without a friend showing it to you or stealing it off of the Internet.


----------

