# Meditation



## Lisa (Apr 3, 2005)

Could anyone please direct me to any good medition secrets, books, etc. I have been dabbling with meditation for about the last month or so and either I can not turn my mind off and it runs a mile a minute or I am so tired when trying to meditate I fall asleep fast and I really haven't successfully reached a stage of complete conscious relaxation as of yet. 

 I would like to use meditation as part of my daily routine to try and sort out my thoughts, emotions, etc and put things into perspective and I have read in some threads about martial artists using meditation to enhance their MA skills, not sure this will work with MMA and grappling but willing to give it a try. 

 I would like to hear from those of you that use meditation or some form of it and how you go about it and what works for you.  Any suggetions would be greatly appreciated.


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## Tgace (Apr 3, 2005)

From my amature point of view, there are no quick "secrets". Count breaths 1 to 10 over and over again. When the mind wanders and you loose count, go back to 1. 

As far as "turning the mind off"...I wouldnt look at it that way. Let the mind go as long as "you" can fall back and observe what its doing instead of getting involved in its fantasies.


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## rutherford (Apr 3, 2005)

Have you considered trying a few guided meditation classes in your area?

*The Power Of Now* by Eckhart Tolle isn't about meditation, but I never had a whole lot of luck with my own meditation practice until after I'd read his book.  It's simply amazing.

You might also check out Hemi-Sync.  Basically, about 40 years ago a group of scientists and pseudo-scientists started investigating sound wave's effects on brain wave activity.  They found a bunch of interesting things about inducing meditative states.  And, they also drew a lot of conclusions that you mind find a bit . . . odd.  

Tgace is right about there being no quick secrets.  In addition, this is definitely an area where the saying Your Mileage May Vary is extremely appropriate.


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## Fight with attitude (Apr 3, 2005)

I have listened to a meditation tape before, they are pretty good at keeping my mind in the right place rather then going off and thinking about something I shouldn't during meditation.

 I wish I could give you the name's of the tapes but I can't find them anywhere.


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## TaiChiTJ (Apr 4, 2005)

this is a worldwide program, has a more spiritual orientation, requires a bit more time commitment, however i think it is very good: 

http://www.ishaya.com/index.html


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## Skankatron Ltd (Apr 6, 2005)

From the get-go I see many problems in your approach. The first thing I learned in my meditation class was "do not expect anything". You will then be pleasantly suprized and will not be dissappointed. If you expect a result, you won't be able to stop yourself from thinking 'is it working?' every few seconds.
Secondly, as Tgace said, looking at it as 'turning off' your mind is not the right approach. I don't mean to dishearten you, but after a few months I only really reached meditation once (well, maybe more, but that time was the most intense) and it only lasted about 3 seconds. But WOW was it good. Shoot. No expectations, right?
Anyway, what you want to do is just stop caring about your thoughts. As a thought enters your mind lable it as a 'thought' and let it go away. This is so very very difficult, I can't begin to tell you, because you'll find yourself WANTING to think some things. Anyway, you keep at this, just letting them go (like waves, my meditation instructor said) and eventually you just kind of distance yourself from them. It's like having a really loud radio on and slowly turning down the volume. That one time that was really good for me was like no volume and I felt intensely happy for most of the day. Hope that helps!


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## rutherford (Apr 6, 2005)

Skankatron Ltd said:
			
		

> From the get-go I see many problems in your approach. The first thing I learned in my meditation class was "do not expect anything". You will then be pleasantly suprized and will not be dissappointed. If you expect a result, you won't be able to stop yourself from thinking 'is it working?' every few seconds.


I believe this is because you're reading her post through your own frame of reference.  She doesn't mention expectations.  Instead, she speaks about what she desires from meditation.  These are different things.

If you do think "is it working?" every few minutes, this is not necessarily a problem because like any other thought it's just the Mind's way of grasping for control.  It's when you identify with or try to fight these thoughts that you quickly spiral out of control.



			
				Skankatron Ltd said:
			
		

> I don't mean to dishearten you, but after a few months I only really reached meditation once (well, maybe more, but that time was the most intense) and it only lasted about 3 seconds. But WOW was it good. Shoot. No expectations, right?


Oh the other hand, I enter no-mind meditative states instinctively, naturally, and frequently when I don't desire them.

As I said, YMMV.


			
				Skankatron Ltd said:
			
		

> Anyway, what you want to do is just stop caring about your thoughts. As a thought enters your mind lable it as a 'thought' and let it go away. This is so very very difficult, I can't begin to tell you, because you'll find yourself WANTING to think some things. Anyway, you keep at this, just letting them go (like waves, my meditation instructor said) and eventually you just kind of distance yourself from them. It's like having a really loud radio on and slowly turning down the volume. That one time that was really good for me was like no volume and I felt intensely happy for most of the day. Hope that helps!


Again, I can't relate to this at all.  Instead of a volume knob, I have an on-off switch.  However, it often seems like I'm reaching for it in the dark or as if somebody else has done it for me.

Something I find really helpful is the concept of "watching the thinker".  It's an awareness that the You, the essential Self, is different from the mind and its concerns.


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## DarrenJew (Apr 6, 2005)

This is the way I learned.

sit on the floor in the lotus position. If you can't or don't feal comfortable in the lotus, it's OK to just sit with your legs folded under you. (Mainly, you must feel relaxed.)

Back straight, position your head so that the very top of your head is the highest point (don't slouch farwards or tilt your head back.) 

imagine a ball of energy in the center of your head and a ball of energy in the center of your stomach.

Now connect the balls with a bar of energy, keep the bar perpendicular to the ground.

your tongue should rest comfortably against the roof of your mouth.

overlap your palms facing up in your lap and thumbs touching.

breath through your nose

clear your thoughts (Note: if you had a particularly stressfull day you may not be able to attain the rem state of mind.)

___________________

sometimes it helps beginners to use your mouth to make the "ohmmmmmmm" sound, you should feel a slight vibration in your mouth, head and even more slightly in your stomach.

Also it may help to put a silver doller size black dot on the wall at eye level to help you focus while you meditate. (eventually its much better if you learn to close your eyes while mediating, to keep you from getting distracted.)

you may also put a glass of water under the dot. (don't ask me I don't know why.)

oh if you have your legs folded under you... use the ball of your foot to plug your anus. (something about stopping the chi leaking out. Sometimes these things are not very scientific... heh)

___________________________________

Well thats the way I learned it.

In the begining you may feel that your swaying.... thats because the chi is hitting some blocked points in your... (I believe the term used was)... meridian. As you do it more and more it should go away.

When you hit the Rem, you may find it difficult to move or to break out of the meditation, and when you do break the meditation you should feel like you just woke up from a long restfull sleep (without actually sleeping, of course).


good luck


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## Skankatron Ltd (Apr 7, 2005)

I will disregard those attacks to my methods. I stand by them and they have worked, though only after much work. For me. 

One thing my instructor told me is that everyone is different and will learn/experience things differently, so any number of methods could be more effective for you than others.

Oh! Something fun, though slightly unrelated. I'm not sure if this works for everyone or just for me (maybe some response I programmed into myself) but I put my right hand in my left hand, touch the thumbs, lay down, and place the hands over my chest. I find when I do this that my energy SKYROCKETS! I ussually get really warm and tingly all over and sometimes start sweating. In my experience, this is chi. I don't suggest it before bed as I have been kept awake for about 5 hours by all the energy I didn't know what to do with.

The thing about the thought "am I doing this right" is that it is a much sneakier one than say "my, how I do love blue cars in the springtime" because it seems much closer to what you are doing.

The labeling of thoughts and volume thing is one way of putting it. Your thoughts never go away, you go away from them. It is possible (and I have been) to be completely separate from your thouhts and unaware of them, but they are there nonetheless, never off. The mind is made for thinking, and it always will do what it was made to do.

Comments? Criticisms?

Ps- Come on Rutherford, you're more grown up than that! The tension on these forums sometimes just makes me nuts.


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## shesulsa (Apr 7, 2005)

Lisa, if you focus on your breathing, meditation will follow.  The mind quiets from breathing - the breathing does not come from meditation.

 So - you want a pattern to start with.  The tip of your tongue should be at the roof of your mouth and stay there.  All breathing should be through the nose for meditation purposes.  Inhale steadily for a count of 4, hold it for a count of four, then steadily exhale for a count of four, repeat.  See how you feel afterwards.  If you get lightheaded, stop and breathe normally.  If you reach a feeling of euphoria, massage your arms and legs.  I don't know why this works, but it does.

 Gradually, lengthen the count you inhale, hold and exhale. Everytime you reach a count pattern divisible by four (four, eight, twelve), practice at that level for a little while before progressing.

 As thoughts approach you in this state, let them wash by, as though you had just viewed a slide on a screen, and it has since gone by.  Don't hang on to thought or engage a flow, just let them wash over you.

 Let me know how you do.


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## rutherford (Apr 8, 2005)

Skankatron Ltd said:
			
		

> I will disregard those attacks to my methods. I stand by them and they have worked, though only after much work. For me.
> 
> Ps- Come on Rutherford, you're more grown up than that! The tension on these forums sometimes just makes me nuts.




Attacks?

Grown up?

You've misunderstood my post, and I think you should reconsider yours.


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## Lisa (Apr 8, 2005)

Okay... I am thinking that perhaps a few of us need to umm... meditate, yeah... thats it. 

 All joking aside, thanks everyone for your suggestions.  Greatly appreciated.  I will get back to all of you in a few days, after I have had some freaking time to actually practice your suggestions without being interupted.


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## foolbae1228 (Apr 8, 2005)

Another way of looking at meditation is your mind is a lake. You are a fish in that lake. Are you just worried about what you can see of the lake, or do you jump out of the water to see where you are, before going back into the lake (turmoil). There's yet, another way to look at it. This way of true meditation is jumping out of the lake, and flying over it. When you get to this point, try to calm the water's of your mind.

Hope this helps.

Farang-
Ryan


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## Tgace (Apr 8, 2005)

I went to a thread about meditation and a fight broke out...


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## Skankatron Ltd (Apr 10, 2005)

rutherford said:
			
		

> Attacks?
> 
> Grown up?
> 
> You've misunderstood my post, and I think you should reconsider yours.


 Um, you systematically went through my methods and turned them all down. Rebuttel? Opposition? Does it matter what word I use?

 But honestly you guys, there is SO much hate on these forums. This is not supposed to be an anger outlet. Come to me in person and beat the **** out of me if you want, but these forums are for educational reasons. Honestly speaking, don't you think that rating down my reputation because your sore is childish?

 Anyway. I try never to reconsider what I said, only what I will say. The past is the past and its mine and it won't change.

 Anyway, sorry if I offended you, no harm meant.


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## rutherford (Apr 10, 2005)

I agree with all of the points I'm going to quote 100%.  


			
				Skankatron Ltd said:
			
		

> Anyway, what you want to do is just stop caring about your thoughts. As a thought enters your mind lable it as a 'thought' and let it go away. This is so very very difficult, I can't begin to tell you, because you'll find yourself WANTING to think some things. Anyway, you keep at this, just letting them go (like waves, my meditation instructor said) and eventually you just kind of distance yourself from them.
> 
> . . .
> 
> The thing about the thought "am I doing this right" is that it is a much sneakier one than say "my, how I do love blue cars in the springtime" because it seems much closer to what you are doing.


I view these as both really good comments on the essential problem that meditation tries to solve: Identification with the thoughts and the mind instead of the total self.


			
				Skankatron Ltd said:
			
		

> The mind is made for thinking. . .


Thinking is compulsive.  The majority of thinking that we do is incessant mental noise that prevents us from finding the inner stillness that is inseperable from essential Being.

That's not to say that the mind isn't useful.  It's a wonderful tool, and without it we wouldn't get very far through our day.  However, we should recognize it for what it is, and understand that we are far more than our minds.  Meditation is a great method for learning this and experiencing a more complete Self.


			
				Skankatron Ltd said:
			
		

> One thing my instructor told me is that everyone is different and will learn/experience things differently, so any number of methods could be more effective for you than others.


This part speaks to exactly what I was trying to illustrate with my post.  I have no opposition to whatever tools work for you, and I'm sure we all thank you for your positive contributions to this thread.  

If you wish to call me or my actions childish again, which you've done twice now, I invite you to use the private message capability of this forum so that we can keep this thread to its topic.

Don't expect a response.


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## Lisa (Dec 9, 2005)

foolbae1228 said:
			
		

> Another way of looking at meditation is your mind is a lake. You are a fish in that lake. Are you just worried about what you can see of the lake, or do you jump out of the water to see where you are, before going back into the lake (turmoil). There's yet, another way to look at it. This way of true meditation is jumping out of the lake, and flying over it. When you get to this point, try to calm the water's of your mind.
> 
> Hope this helps.
> 
> ...



It has been quite a few months of trying meditation and I have to say using the idea of being a fish swimming in a lake has helped me tremendously.  I think for meditation to help you and for it to "work" everyone needs to find what works for them.

I simply sit or lie somewhere comfortably and imagine myself swimming through the lake.  I find it peaceful and tranquil and all the stress of my day melts away.  I have found it works really well with headaches as well.

Thanks again for all your advice.  After practicing it for a few months, I am on my way to where I want to be.

:asian:

Lisa


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## White Fox (Dec 16, 2005)

Lisa you should go to Wei Lana's website. I don't know if you know her but she is a yoga instructor and has a lot of cool meditation stuff to offer. I have this one cd where she does a guided meditation it&#8217;s really nice. This is not an advertisement I'm just trying to help out :uhyeah:


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## Lisa (Dec 16, 2005)

I shall check it out White Fox.  Thanks for the info.


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## Shaolin (Oct 15, 2006)

Hello,

  There are many types of meditation.  The meditation to allow your mind to go blank is very hard to accomplish because the mind has not been trained to do.  Everyone has done it before in their life time though from day dreaming. The one that I find is most easy to learn and can help with preparing your mind to go blank is by a breathing meditation. Here are some steps to follow:

1) The first thing first you want to be in a comfortable position but not to comfortable that you will fall a sleep in. 
2) You only want to breath in and out of your nose. 
3) The tip of your tounge should be slightly touching the roof of your mouth.
  Now lets get into the breathing steps.

1) Close your eyes
2) Breath in deeply for a count of seven seconds.
3) Hold for 2 to 3 seconds.
4) Breah out for seven seconds.
5) Hold for 2 to 3 seconds.
6) Repeat steps 1-5 for a couple of times.

  The next take practice practice but you can do it! You can watch the flame from the candle that was suggested to you.  Everyone is different.  Music like the flute, running water, yoga music all can help to take your mind off of wandering.  I use meditation balls in my hands when I am having a hard time to allow my mind to go blank.  Don't worry it does take practice but, soon you can do it without any music or devices.  I hope this helps let me know if you have any other questions.

Kris


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## rabbit (Oct 16, 2006)

I don't meditate everyday but when I do it is a good experience I could be in a trance for well over an hour or have a short but very refreshing meditation session ever month or so. I rather mediate once in a while instead of everyday. Try pranayama (yoga) or deep breathing. Try counting the breath. Try following the breath. There is as many meditation techniques as there are meditators, so try as many techniques as possible. Everyone is different. What might work for me might not work for you. Keep trying and you'll succeed. Even if you feel like you aren't meditating because you can not turn off you thoughts you are still meditating because you are trying.


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## TaiChiTJ (Oct 16, 2006)

Another avenue of approoach is Betty Erickson's meditation technique. If you want to generate some kind of outcome, i.e. better performance in class, remembering all the self defense techniques you have been working on, bring more joy into your life, or whatever you should bring that to mind before you step through the technique (that's how I was taught) or they say here you can bring it to mind once your in trance. 

http://www.ericksonian.info/BETTY.html


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## davemitchel (Oct 22, 2006)

Maybe meditation in motion for you. Do you practice T'ai Chi? I wrote an article on meditation and part of the research looked at different strokes for different folks. Busy and active people like yourself is often better suited to T'ai Chi instead of meditation. Just a thought.

Peace
Dave


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## pete (Oct 22, 2006)

tai chi BECOMES meditation in motion, only if one learns HOW to meditate and integrates it into their movement. it doenst just happen by itself.
true, there are those who can find their meditation in movement easier than standing still, and vice versa, but a good teacher will guide you towards both.  stand like a mountain, move like a great river.


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## Cruentus (Oct 22, 2006)

This is kind of a weird thread in a way...

But I thought you were asking for some good books on the subject?

"The Complete Idiot's Guide to Zen Living" I think would be a great start for you, Lisa, in that it seems that you would be looking for practical ways of involving meditation in your life. There is also one on Meditation.

From that, or any starting point, there are a lot of different directions you could go.

My belief is that it isn't so much the "technique" or "method" that matters, but the "You" that is behind it.

Considering this, I highly recommend anything by Alan Watts, particularly "Still the Mind," (I think it is called). Thomas Merton is good for contemperary Christian Contemplative meditation. Also books by Osho, Gyatso, and especially the Dalai Lama can be particularly good.

But really, there are a lot of different directions you could go...


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## buyu (Oct 27, 2006)

Hey lisa well like you i havent had much luck with my meditation but hey we keep trying ,i have come to find that there is different ways of doing it music pictures storys of you walking in the forest um picturing your body as a empty vessel filling it then emptying it takes pain spots away which is cool well ive found that trying to mimic a relaxed state by trying to trick the mind into thinking that your doing it like a bath sometimes works but i do know posture and comfort are important to start with aswell as breathing even if you just focus on your breathing .I have book which i havent quite finished yet but it is written by a fellow martial artist called Glenn J Morris its called Path notes of an american ninja master it is good and takes you thru stage by stage its good because its relevant to what we study um Skanktron you would beneifit from it cause it tells you how to deal with the sweating and over energised feeling its just the tip of a ice berg 
thanks lisa


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