# Iron palm/fist training question



## Master_Beard (Feb 6, 2015)

Does anyone have experience with Iron palm conditioning? I've watch videos and read up on it and to me it seems that it would definitely toughen you up, but I foresee some serious arthritis issues in the future as a result. I was informed that you must use a Dit Da Jow to avoid this but I'm not so sure a liniment can prevent the damage of all that impact over time. I'm just getting my feet wet here in Chinese MA so any info is welcome.


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## clfsean (Feb 6, 2015)

I do hand conditioning (which starts at the shoulders) but I don't do Iron Palm proper. 

Videos & such can only show you the outer stuff. A teacher that's skilled & knowledgeable is really the only recourse to get it right. If not, you do run those risks of damage, but truly if you do it right, it's no more of a chance of permanent damage than any other activity really. 

As far as Dit Da Jow, honestly you can't really "train" in CMA's without it. But again, it's gotta be a good one otherwise it can jack you up. But if it's a good one, it's the only way to go!


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## Transk53 (Feb 6, 2015)

clfsean said:


> I do hand conditioning (which starts at the shoulders) but I don't do Iron Palm proper.
> 
> Videos & such can only show you the outer stuff. A teacher that's skilled & knowledgeable is really the only recourse to get it right. If not, you do run those risks of damage, but truly if you do it right, it's no more of a chance of permanent damage than any other activity really.
> 
> As far as Dit Da Jow, honestly you can't really "train" in CMA's without it. But again, it's gotta be a good one otherwise it can jack you up. But if it's a good one, it's the only way to go!



Sounds like an opiate that way?


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## mograph (Feb 6, 2015)

Transk53 said:


> Sounds like an opiate that way?


A topical opiate? Hmm ...


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## Transk53 (Feb 6, 2015)

mograph said:


> A topical opiate? Hmm ...



Just thinking about the recreational use of opiates back in the day. Probably a tangent, just ignore, no meaningful slight intended


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## clfsean (Feb 6, 2015)

Transk53 said:


> Sounds like an opiate that way?



Not really but there are probably different topical analgesics in the different herbs. Not to mention the alcohol base


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## Transk53 (Feb 7, 2015)

clfsean said:


> Not really but there are probably different topical analgesics in the different herbs. Not to mention the alcohol base



Right. There is quite a large Chinese community where I am due to having two university's with international students. There are quite a few specialist shops, and not to mention the herbal and medicine shops. One of them I would think would have ready made stuff.


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## clfsean (Feb 7, 2015)

Transk53 said:


> Right. There is quite a large Chinese community where I am due to having two university's with international students. There are quite a few specialist shops, and not to mention the herbal and medicine shops. One of them I would think would have ready made stuff.



A lot of time they do. You can go in & tell them what you need. If they don't already have something ready, they can prep it for you either fully or just the herbs & you brew it on your own.


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## hawkryger (Feb 8, 2015)

I have done iron palm off and on for several years. The idea is you start easy and build up to iron. You don't start breaking your hand or anything. In some ways it's similar to shin conditioning for kickboxing. The Dit Da Jow is an anesthetic but more importantly it increases circulation and hence blood flow, which gets rid of bruises and promotes healing. It is a long slow process of strengthening. I have been doing it for about 15 years and have no signs of arthritis. The important thing is taking care of your hands before and after. Plum Dragon herbs has some excellent Dit da jow recipes. The stuff is used all over Chinese martial arts, not just for iron palm. It's tremendous for any bruising or such from sparring. 


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## Transk53 (Feb 8, 2015)

hawkryger said:


> I have done iron palm off and on for several years. The idea is you start easy and build up to iron. You don't start breaking your hand or anything. In some ways it's similar to shin conditioning for kickboxing. The Dit Da Jow is an anesthetic but more importantly it increases circulation and hence blood flow, which gets rid of bruises and promotes healing. It is a long slow process of strengthening. I have been doing it for about 15 years and have no signs of arthritis. The important thing is taking care of your hands before and after. Plum Dragon herbs has some excellent Dit da jow recipes. The stuff is used all over Chinese martial arts, not just for iron palm. It's tremendous for any bruising or such from sparring.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



To be honest, this vid was easy to find due to the index. This legit?


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## hawkryger (Feb 8, 2015)

Is what legit?


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## Transk53 (Feb 8, 2015)

clfsean said:


> A lot of time they do. You can go in & tell them what you need. If they don't already have something ready, they can prep it for you either fully or just the herbs & you brew it on your own.



I will have ask some questions on the prepping, but first time around probably best to get fully made product. Just hope I get the pronunciation right.


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## clfsean (Feb 8, 2015)

Deet Dah Jow will get you what you need in near Cantonese.

Dee Dah Jhoe will work for Mandarin.

Chances are you can get by with English asking for any premade bone hit wine or conditioning liniment. If they have a recipe to make yourself, it will be 6 months to a year before it's ready. Just FYI


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## Transk53 (Feb 8, 2015)

clfsean said:


> Deet Dah Jow will get you what you need in near Cantonese.
> 
> Dee Dah Jhoe will work for Mandarin.
> 
> Chances are you can get by with English asking for any premade bone hit wine or conditioning liniment. If they have a recipe to make yourself, it will be 6 months to a year before it's ready. Just FYI



Thanks for the info on that. Actually, does it have a similar affect on muscles like Olbas Oil?


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## clfsean (Feb 8, 2015)

Transk53 said:


> Thanks for the info on that. Actually, does it have a similar affect on muscles like Olbas Oil?



I don't know. I'm not familiar with that product. Sorry!


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## Transk53 (Feb 9, 2015)

clfsean said:


> I don't know. I'm not familiar with that product. Sorry!



No worries.


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## Colin Barker (Feb 10, 2015)

You've got your internal and your external iron palm, then you can get off into other strains like poison hand techniques.  I went primarily through an internal progression, there were 7 weeks of restrictions, in a way of purifying one's body and getting them stronger at the same time.  There were 15 levels of the internal iron palm i practiced i made it to 6.  The first two levels were more conditioning of the body, 1st a sand level and then a metal level combining the breath with various strikes and movements.  After that a wood level that was supposed to give you iron forearm and such, then a fire level mixing in dynamic tension and reverse breathing.  We utilized fit da now for most of this training.  

The external styles are from my experience just a repetitive beating of hitting with a certain body area, fist, elbow, back, legs, etc…  

I stopped all of these type of training years ago.  After watching my Gao Bagua teacher state that most iron palm training desensitizes one's ability to feel and opponent(from all the beatings), as far as with push hands or what have you.  This being stated he then demonstrated how he still had great power and could still hit very hard, by slapping my friends shoulder and literally dropping him to his knees.  So the long story i got from this, just train internal martial arts and you'll naturally get strong and strike like steel.


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## Transk53 (Feb 11, 2015)

Colin Barker said:


> So the long story i got from this, just train internal martial arts and you'll naturally get strong and strike like steel.



Interesting reply all round, but the very latter is intriguing.


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## DaleDugas (Mar 21, 2015)

Anyone need help let me know.  I have been training Iron Skills for over 30 years.


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## CDR_Glock (Sep 24, 2016)

DaleDugas said:


> Anyone need help let me know.  I have been training Iron Skills for over 30 years.



Do you have a recommendation on what is the most effective formula of Dit Da Jow?

Do you have instruction, a book or general training recommendations?


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