# Contrasting and comparing Taira Bunkai and Hubud Lubud



## TaiChiTJ (Jan 26, 2013)

I had never heard of Taira Bunkai before. I learned about it on another thread. Seems similar to Hubud Lubud. Interesting to compare them. 







http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=FqTgZ9y3za0&NR=1


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## geezer (Jan 26, 2013)

TaiChiTJ said:


> I had never heard of Taira Bunkai before. I learned about it on another thread. Seems similar to Hubud Lubud. Interesting to compare them.



Many fighting systems have some form of "sensitivity/flow" drills at the highest levels, especially those that have some connection to TCMA. Guju has its kakie, FMA has it's hubud, taiji has its tui shou, and of course there is Ving Tsun chi-sau. Actually, VT/WT/WC emphasizes this more than anybody. You can really see the chi-sau influence in the Inosanto/Lacosta blend hubud. After all, Dan Inosanto studied WC when he studied Jun Fan/JKD. 

Some of the movement sequences in the second part of the hubud clip (starting at about .35) come right out of our basic dan chi training. Some major difference between hubud and chi-sau however is that hubud doesn't stick with constant forward energy ("springy energy") and there isn't an equal emphasis on centerline. In chi-sau, if your hand is free, _you hit_. In the hubud, you tend to see more sequences where _both_ of the attacker's hands are on _one_ of the defenders, more attacks to the limbs, and you see more withdrawing movements. Considering that FMAs generally evolved from _weapons_ systems, this is quite logical.

Here are some WC/WT clips: 











Interestingly, I'm told that Keith Kernspecht (guy in yellow in the first clip) once studied Goju and practiced kakie before taking up WT in the 70s.


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## TaiChiTJ (Jan 26, 2013)

geezer said:


> Some of the movement sequences in the second part of the hubud clip (starting at about .35) come right out of our basic dan chi training. Some major difference between hubud and chi-sau however is that hubud doesn't stick with constant forward energy ("springy energy") and there isn't an equal emphasis on centerline. In chi-sau, if your hand is free, _you hit_. In the hubud, you tend to see more sequences where _both_ of the attacker's hands are on _one_ of the defenders, more attacks to the limbs, and you see more withdrawing movements. Considering that FMAs generally evolved from _weapons_ systems, this is quite logical.



Ok, I get what you are saying.

Steve, does your practice use stepping? Or does that just happen spontaneously as you work the arm patterns.


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## K-man (Jan 26, 2013)

TaiChiTJ said:


> I had never heard of Taira Bunkai before. I learned about it on another thread. Seems similar to Hubud Lubud. Interesting to compare them.
> 
> 
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> ...


Nice to see a couple of my friends in the Taira clip. 

Having not come across Hubud Lubud before, it is hard to say how they compare.  I looked at a couple of other HL clips and they showed transitioning out of the flow drill into locks and holds etc.  That is similar to what we do in Taira's open/close drill where we go from the drill into a kata bunkai, then back to the drill.  There are other drills as well that come from the kata. 

The HL drill seems to be less structured and closer to what I call Tegumi. That is based on the principles of Chi Na. We train that as our own sensitivity drill, quite separate to what Taira teaches. 

Taira Bunkai is a totally different animal.  He uses the kata as a fighting system, in the sequence of the kata.  Any other training drills are just supplementary to that training. There is similarity in the concept of engaging and not disengaging until the conflict is resolved and there is possibly an element of predictictable response in the HL. Predictable response is the core of Taira Bunkai.    :asian:


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## geezer (Jan 27, 2013)

TaiChiTJ said:


> Ok, I get what you are saying. Steve, does your practice use stepping? Or does that just happen spontaneously as you work the arm patterns.



Yes to _both_. Initially we practice stepping as we practice various choreographed sequences of attack and defense, then after well learned the arm, body and leg movements work together spontaneously. Chi-sau isn't just about the hands moving alone. The energy of the entire body, as well as your opponent/partner's energy comes into play.


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