# Prejudice World-Wide



## celtic_crippler (Aug 27, 2009)

I wonder if Madonna expected such a prejudiced response from a non-American crowd? 



> BUCHAREST, Romania - At first, fans politely applauded the Roma performers sharing a stage with Madonna. Then the pop star condemned widespread discrimination against Roma, or Gypsies &#151; and the cheers gave way to jeers.
> The sharp mood change that swept the crowd of 60,000, who had packed a park for Wednesday night's concert, underscores how prejudice against Gypsies remains deeply entrenched across Eastern Europe.
> Despite long-standing efforts to stamp out rampant bias, human rights advocates say Roma probably suffer more humiliation and endure more discrimination than any other people group on the continent.
> Sometimes, it can be deadly: In neighboring Hungary, six Roma have been killed and several wounded in a recent series of apparently racially motivated attacks targeting small countryside villages predominantly settled by Gypsies.


 
Entire Article

Do gypsies qualify for Affirmative Action in Europe? 

...wait...does Europe have anything like Affirmative Action?


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## CoryKS (Aug 27, 2009)

Reminds me of the time Dave Mustaine caught hell in Ireland for registering his opinion on their problems.  Look, if you're an entertainer just passing through, don't go to someone else's country and start telling them how to run it.  They won't appreciate it.  Sing your little songs and go home.


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## Tez3 (Aug 27, 2009)

celtic_crippler said:


> I wonder if Madonna expected such a prejudiced response from a non-American crowd?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

Firstly what do you know about the Roma?
I'm not sure if you could call the response prejudiced more that the Roma/gypies/travellers are deeply unpopular for a number of reasons some of them reasonable some of them not.
Madonna is beng blinkered in many respects, I bet she didn't condemn the Roma's customs of marrying their daughters off at 12.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2004/may/30/europeanunion.broadcasting

Nor is she having to pay for their upkeep when they come over here.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/680383.stm
http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view...life-in-Britain-after-they-are-told-Get-a-job


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## celtic_crippler (Aug 27, 2009)

Tez3 said:


> Firstly what do you know about the Roma?
> I'm not sure if you could call the response prejudiced more that the Roma/gypies/travellers are deeply unpopular for a number of reasons some of them reasonable some of them not.
> Madonna is beng blinkered in many respects, I bet she didn't condemn the Roma's customs of marrying their daughters off at 12.
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2004/may/30/europeanunion.broadcasting
> ...


 
Sounds like good reasons to kill them to me. 

In all seriousness, it looks like you got some similar problems across the pond.


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## Big Don (Aug 27, 2009)

How about:
SHUT UP AND PERFORM!


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## still learning (Aug 27, 2009)

Hello, Teach Hate? ....everyone around them...will learn to hate!

Role models...are our Parents/Guardians/ and friends....all teach the younger ones....

ARE you a good role model?  .....the world sure needs more of them...

Aloha,  .....teach? ....goodness!


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## Tez3 (Aug 28, 2009)

Hitler killed a great many gypsies as well.

There is a big problem with the Roma, it's caused by both sides with right and wrong also being on both sides but Madonnas ignorant rant is only going to make things worse. 
There's a lot of bad feeling against gypsies here and in Europe which isn't going to be dispelled by one pop stars bleeding heart...does she really care anyway? 
In parts of Europe begging on the street is legal and considered by some to be a valid way to make a living, in the UK it's against the law and is regarded as not a decent way to make your living. Many come from Eastern Europe though not all are Roma and beg here often, they can be very intimidating and violent at times. There is also a vary lax attitude to drink driving and crime, it's causing huge problems and great cost to our local communities. 
http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/21111/Police-debate-immigrants-and-crime

All these problems of course are grist to the mills of the racists here and in Europe so we are going round in circles all the time.


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## Carol (Aug 28, 2009)

What ever happened to stars being _entertaining_?


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## seasoned (Aug 28, 2009)

Carol Kaur said:


> What ever happened to stars being _entertaining_?


Once some of them become very, very, famous, something within them surfaces. They feel this sense of power over their following, and though misguided, causes them to push agenda's because of the captive audience.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Aug 28, 2009)

I think Celtic Crippler wanted people to look at prejudice world wide.  In my travels around the world I have witnessed prejudice and discrimination everywhere.  How do we change that?


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## chrispillertkd (Aug 28, 2009)

celtic_crippler said:


> I wonder if Madonna expected such a prejudiced response from a non-American crowd?


 
Who can say what she expected? Stars are so used to having people listen to them because they have a mic in front of them they tend to run off at the mouth about topics waaaaaay outside their area of expertise.

It's like my dad said once regarding actors: "If they don't have a script in front of them they should just not say anything."

I'm sure the people at the concert didn't want someone who isn't from their neck of the woods telling them what to do. I don't blame them; I didn't care for U2 telling me all the "problems" with America in the 80's. But hey, you tour through a country a couple times and you become an expert on what it needs to do in order to conform with your opinion!

Does that mean it's OK to discriminate against people? No, of course not. But maybe, just maybe, there's a time and a place for things. And a concert isn't a good time for a political statement.

Pax,

Chris


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## celtic_crippler (Aug 28, 2009)

Brian R. VanCise said:


> I think Celtic Crippler wanted people to look at prejudice world wide. In my travels around the world I have witnessed prejudice and discrimination everywhere. How do we change that?


 
Might as well ask the question, _"how do you change human nature?"_ 

One obvious thing that hinders change is that what one group considers socially acceptable is unacceptable to another group. 

Without at least a well defined ettiquette that is acceptable to all you'll never get anywhere. 

Perhaps as the world becomes smaller, through communications technologies, this will become possible in the future? Who knows? I think it's the cultural differences more so than the different skin colors that results in prejudiced treatment.


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## Tez3 (Aug 28, 2009)

Of course it's wrong to discriminate but Madonna has made a major faux pas by talking about a situation she's not got any understanding of. It shows probably that while finding an answer to discrimination isn't easy, it's far easier to see what shouldn't be done.
In the specific case of Romania there are immense problems for the whole country which is significantly poorer and more backward than it's neighbours. Horrific stories of the orphanages and the abuse of handicapped people were common, poverty is rife with government systems and public services sadly lacking after the fall of communism there in 1989. It's been a very hard uphill battle to get where they are now. The Roma themselves have their own class system with the bottom layer being very poor and looked down upon by all so again you have discrimination. 
The EU is trying to address problems of the Roma in Romania, how successful this will be remains to be seen as the Roma themselves, as we have found out here, often regard themselves as not having to take notice of authorities whether well disposed toards them or not, they often regard themselves as above laws of which ever country they are in which as you can imagine causes problems.

http://www.rroma.ro/


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## CoryKS (Aug 28, 2009)

Tez3 said:


> Of course it's wrong to discriminate but Madonna has made a major faux pas by talking about a situation she's not got any understanding of.


 
This. You know, you could probably get most people in the world to agree that prejudice is bad, but walking into the middle of a situation and saying "Prejudice bad, don't do it" isn't anything like a solution. The world's a complex place, and believe it or not that elegantly simple fix that you hashed out over the course of minutes on the tour plane over here isn't going to help.

It's depressing, really. I mean, if the kind of staggering genius that allows someone to string together 3-4 minutes worth of sound isn't sufficient to save the world, then what is?


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## Tez3 (Aug 28, 2009)

CoryKS said:


> This. You know, you could probably most people in the world to agree that prejudice is bad, but walking into the middle of a situation and saying "Prejudice bad, don't do it" isn't anything like a solution. The world's a complex place, and believe it or not that elegantly simple fix that you hashed out over the course of minutes on the tour plane over here isn't going to help.
> 
> It's depressing, really. I mean, if the kind of staggering genius that allows someone to string together 3-4 minutes worth of sound isn't sufficient to save the world, then what is?


 
True, the problem is too that while many people agree discimination is wrong they don't actually think they do it themselves!


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## CoryKS (Aug 28, 2009)

Tez3 said:


> True, the problem is too that while many people agree discimination is wrong they don't actually think they do it themselves!


 
That, plus the fact that any antagonism between one group and another looks like intolerance if you don't understand the issues underlying the problem.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Aug 28, 2009)

Okay so Madonna inserted a foot in here mouth because she did not know all the complexities of the situation. (though honestly we do not know) How is that any different when someone from another country talks about racial prejudice in the United States.  Or when someone talks about treatment of women in the middle east or when or when someone bemoans the treatment of aboriginies in Australia? (I could go on and on)


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## CoryKS (Aug 28, 2009)

Brian R. VanCise said:


> Okay so Madonna inserted a foot in here mouth because she did not know all the complexities of the situation. (though honestly we do not know) How is that any different when someone from another country talks about racial prejudice in the United States. Or when someone talks about treatment of women in the middle east or when or when someone bemoans the treatment of aboriginies in Australia? (I could go on and on)


 
It's no different, IMO.  And that's a point of contention for me, so I can understand how the Romanians might have responded to Madonna.  Domestic problems are family business.


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## Tez3 (Aug 28, 2009)

Well I think people in the UK and the rest of Europe can comment on the Roma situation as it affects us. We have a very large population of Romanian gyspies as well as those for other countries here who come here allegedly because of problems in there own countries, as we are paying for their upkeep I think we are entitled to look at and if necessary address problems caused by the situation.

With the situation of the Aborigines in Australia we do bear some responsiblity here in the UK.
As a woman I believe I also have the right to speak out against the ill treatment of my fellow women, I also believe that, as an adult, I have the responsibility to speak out on the abuse of children, whatever country they may be in and do what ever I can to help.
I don't think there can be barriers we cannot cross when it comes to the mistreatment of people, it was bad enough when America and the UK stood by allowing nothing to be said about Hitlers extermination programme, that should not happen again if we can help it.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Aug 28, 2009)

Good, thoughtful dialogue is important regarding prejudice, racial, national or otherwise.  Having the dialogue can get us to think about it and try to figure out what we can do to make the situation better.  Human nature would indicate that no matter what prejudice, racism are around for good. (I do not see it disapearing)  Yet by making it an issue we as people can hopefully learn from it.


Now Madonnas concert performance and speech brought some awareness to this and really is that a bad thing?  Maybe some action can be taken to create a better situation!


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## Tez3 (Aug 28, 2009)

Brian R. VanCise said:


> Good, thoughtful dialogue is important regarding prejudice, racial, national or otherwise. Having the dialogue can get us to think about it and try to figure out what we can do to make the situation better. Human nature would indicate that no matter what prejudice, racism are around for good. (I do not see it disapearing) Yet by making it an issue we as people can hopefully learn from it.
> 
> 
> Now Madonnas concert performance and speech brought some awareness to this and really is that a bad thing? Maybe some action can be taken to create a better situation!


 
All Madonna has done is stir things up, the real help is already being done, if you look at the website I posted the link to (funded by the EU) you'll see that various organisations and groups have been working on this for a while now, it would have been better if she had publicised that rather than speak from ignorance.


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## CoryKS (Aug 28, 2009)

It would have been perfect if, after having her say, she sang "Papa Don't Preach".   :rofl:


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## Flea (Aug 28, 2009)

seasoned said:


> Once some of them become very, very, famous, something within them surfaces. They feel this sense of power over their following, and though misguided, causes them to push agenda's because of the captive audience.



I read somewhere that at a U2 concert, Bono stopped the band and started clapping his hands very solemnly.  "Every time I clap my hands, a child in Africa dies."  The house was dead silent, so everyone heard some guy shout back ...

"Well then *stop clapping*, you idiot!!"

:boing2:


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## MarkBarlow (Aug 30, 2009)

Brian R. VanCise said:


> I think Celtic Crippler wanted people to look at prejudice world wide.  In my travels around the world I have witnessed prejudice and discrimination everywhere.  How do we change that?



Prejudice is as old as mankind and will last just as long.  That doesn't make it right but one group's prejudice is seen as thoughtful self protection by another group.  

For the vast majority of our existence, if you were not of my village, you had no rights and were barely a person.  Even today, large portions of the world have absolutely no interest in anything that happens outside their borders.  If you are not of my village, not of my clan, not of my family, why should I care?  

As the world shrinks, we're seeing that there is, or should be, a family of mankind, not just those around us.  Little by little, it is improving.  There isn't as much acceptance by society of prejudice.  That's not to say that individuals don't act on ignorance and hatred, just that fewer and fewer governments and cultures endorse such behavior as reasonable and acceptable.  

Greeks hate Turks, Danes hate Swedes, Alabama fans hate Auburn fans and Nancy Pelosi would love to shove all those "unAmericans"  in a wood chopper.  I'm pretty sure if you asked any of these folks why they feel so strongly, they'd have a list of offenses but the bottom line is "they aren't one of us".


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## Tez3 (Aug 30, 2009)

So, how long have Danes hated Swedes? 
Greeks hate Turks as many do in the Middle East because the Turks massacred thousands and thousands of people, extreme prejudice in their case. Just a small 'offence'? Try peace keeping in Cyprus and see the graves to understand the local feeling in just one place. The Ottoman Empire was a harsh enemy.
 It's not right of course but more understanding is needed. It's not just a case of 'them being different' it's more than one side may have better land or access to the sea or more money. One side may have a leader with ambitions to take over the world whatever though a deeper look is needed to understand the problem and find solutions, it's a little trite suggesting it's just down to the fact that we 'think they are different'


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## MarkBarlow (Aug 30, 2009)

Tez3 said:


> So, how long have Danes hated Swedes?
> Greeks hate Turks as many do in the Middle East because the Turks massacred thousands and thousands of people, extreme prejudice in their case. Just a small 'offence'? Try peace keeping in Cyprus and see the graves to understand the local feeling in just one place. The Ottoman Empire was a harsh enemy.
> It's not right of course but more understanding is needed. It's not just a case of 'them being different' it's more than one side may have better land or access to the sea or more money. One side may have a leader with ambitions to take over the world whatever though a deeper look is needed to understand the problem and find solutions, it's a little trite suggesting it's just down to the fact that we 'think they are different'



Like I said, everyone can give a reason for their prejudice.  Sometimes it makes sense, sometimes it doesn't.  Regardless, it's a prejudice.  No one alive is without some sort of prejudice, large or small.  

I'm not defending it, just stating what I see as a fact.


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## Tez3 (Aug 30, 2009)

MarkBarlow said:


> Like I said, everyone can give a reason for their prejudice. Sometimes it makes sense, sometimes it doesn't. Regardless, it's a prejudice. No one alive is without some sort of prejudice, large or small.
> 
> I'm not defending it, just stating what I see as a fact.


 
You made it sound trite I'm afraid bundling something like the Turks and Greeks together with two sports teams. Many times it's not a case of simple prejudice as much as downright hatred, that's is a much harder thing to fight against.


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## MarkBarlow (Aug 30, 2009)

Tez3 said:


> You made it sound trite I'm afraid bundling something like the Turks and Greeks together with two sports teams. Many times it's not a case of simple prejudice as much as downright hatred, that's is a much harder thing to fight against.



If I came across as trite, I apologize.  I realize that Greeks, Armenians, Koreans, Chinese, Native Americans, Finns and countless other groups/nationalities/etc. have legitimate complaints against other groups/nationalities/etc.  But it all supports my line of thought, prejudice is the nature of the beast.


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## Tez3 (Aug 30, 2009)

MarkBarlow said:


> If I came across as trite, I apologize. I realize that Greeks, Armenians, Koreans, Chinese, Native Americans, Finns and countless other groups/nationalities/etc. have legitimate complaints against other groups/nationalities/etc. But it all supports my line of thought, prejudice is the nature of the beast.


 
I don't think it's prejudice though, I think what is between these people as with the Roma is more than that, it's deeper, it's a hatred not just a prejudice against them. To say it's prejudice makes it sound as if it's just something akin to dislike or distaste for some people, as when someone comments about ginger headed kids, that's prejudice, what is going on in many countries is a terror, a fear, of some people and a loathing, a deep hatred of them on the other side. The Roma are hated in many places not just prejudiced against, that rarely kills people it'll stop them getting jobs or going to school but fear, anger and hatred kills. 

To underestimate the level of emotion that is going on in many of these countries is dangerous.


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## MarkBarlow (Aug 30, 2009)

Thanks for the feedback.


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## Tez3 (Aug 30, 2009)

MarkBarlow said:


> Thanks for the feedback.


 
Thanks for the sarcasm, semantics indeed. 

Were the Jews, Gypsies, Jehovahs Witnesses, mentally ill, gay, communists merely prejudiced against in Nazi Germany them or were they hated enough to be killed like animals in an abattoir?

I think Americans may use the word prejudice differently from us, we take it to mean 'to pre judge, to already make your mind up about something usually adversely but not necessarly.' It doesn't have the connotations that you seem to think it has.


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## MarkBarlow (Aug 30, 2009)

Tez3 said:


> Thanks for the sarcasm, semantics indeed.
> 
> Were the Jews, Gypsies, Jehovahs Witnesses, mentally ill, gay, communists merely prejudiced against in Nazi Germany them or were they hated enough to be killed like animals in an abattoir?
> 
> I think Americans may use the word prejudice differently from us, we take it to mean 'to pre judge, to already make your mind up about something usually adversely but not necessarly.' It doesn't have the connotations that you seem to think it has.



No sarcasm intended.  It's obvious that you saw my posts in a certain way and choose to proceed with that assumption.  I apologized if anything I said struck you as trite or offensive.  That wasn't sufficient for you.  

I thanked you for your input and made a conscious decision to not continue this conversation.  As you say, perhaps we use the word prejudice differently.  Therefore, it is a matter of semantics.

You were wrong to assume that I was being disrespectful.  I merely did not want to continue a discussion that was not productive.


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## Tez3 (Aug 30, 2009)

I think it's very hard for non Europeans to understand the feelings we have when they haven't experienced things like the Holocaust or having your country invaded. You can think about it but it's always worse than you could ever imagine. You judge things by your own countries experiences and while you have prejudices you never had the death camps or the communist secret police etc the Roma mentioned in the OP did.


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## David43515 (Aug 30, 2009)

I was suprised to hear you spend so much time on the difference you percieve between hated and predjudice. I don`t think there`s any difference in the result, it`s just the reason behind it. Maybe we do use the word differently in the US. 

I always thought of hate being what you feel for an individual and predjudice as being what you feel for a group. (Not in the singular vs plural sense, but in the sense of hating an individual for a reason and hating all members of a group because of some preconceived image of all members of that group.)

Either way, if you`re treating someone like crap when they haven`t done anything to deserve it, it`s a pretty rotten way to live your life.


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## Tez3 (Aug 31, 2009)

David43515 said:


> I was suprised to hear you spend so much time on the difference you percieve between hated and predjudice. I don`t think there`s any difference in the result, it`s just the reason behind it. Maybe we do use the word differently in the US.
> 
> I always thought of hate being what you feel for an individual and predjudice as being what you feel for a group. (Not in the singular vs plural sense, but in the sense of hating an individual for a reason and hating all members of a group because of some preconceived image of all members of that group.)
> 
> Either way, if you`re treating someone like crap when they haven`t done anything to deserve it, it`s a pretty rotten way to live your life.


 

I was spending so much time on it because it seemed it was being perceived as not being much of a deal to start with.
Words are important and the way they are used indicates a strength of feeling that has to be put across when you can't see or hear the person you are corresponding with such as here in the internet.


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## blindsage (Aug 31, 2009)

Tez we do use prejudice in a very broad sense that can go from just kind of not liking something to full blown hatred.  It's also frequently a synonym here for racism.

But in addition, you may have the Holocaust and invasion from WWII that color your psyche, but other people and groups have there own history and devastating tragedies.  Americans don't have the Holocause or any invasions in our history but we do have slavery, Jim Crow, lynching, the Trail of Tears, mass murders of Native Americans, the dispossesion of Chicanos, the long term disenfranchisement of poor whites, and a number of other tragedies.  As said before, the Ottoman empire did a number on more than just the Greeks.  The Spanish endured Franco.  The Argentinians, Pinochet.  The DRC, Mobutu.  South Africa, apartheid.  Russians- the Czars, multiple invasions, Stalin.  China- the Japanese invasion, the Great Leap, the Cultural Revolution.  Etc, etc, etc.

There are plenty of tragedies to go around.  We share in these things.  Americans may not be informed on the issues surrounding the Roma, but that doesn't mean they can't be understood on a rational _and_ personal level.


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## Tez3 (Aug 31, 2009)

blindsage said:


> Tez we do use prejudice in a very broad sense that can go from just kind of not liking something to full blown hatred. It's also frequently a synonym here for racism.
> 
> But in addition, you may have the Holocaust and invasion from WWII that color your psyche, but other people and groups have there own history and devastating tragedies. Americans don't have the Holocause or any invasions in our history but we do have slavery, Jim Crow, lynching, the Trail of Tears, mass murders of Native Americans, the dispossesion of Chicanos, the long term disenfranchisement of poor whites, and a number of other tragedies. As said before, the Ottoman empire did a number on more than just the Greeks. The Spanish endured Franco. The Argentinians, Pinochet. The DRC, Mobutu. South Africa, apartheid. Russians- the Czars, multiple invasions, Stalin. China- the Japanese invasion, the Great Leap, the Cultural Revolution. Etc, etc, etc.
> 
> There are plenty of tragedies to go around. We share in these things. Americans may not be informed on the issues surrounding the Roma, but that doesn't mean they can't be understood on a rational _and_ personal level.


 
True but the OP and a couple of others made light of a serious subject which undermines the fact that others apart from yourself do take this seriously. The OP itself sounded frivolous and a tad ignorant asking iif tere was affirmative action in the EU. I'm not sure frankly how much, going by some posts here, tragedies in other parts of the world are understood or known about, other than by yourself.


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## blindsage (Sep 1, 2009)

Some folks (including myself at times) use sarcasm to make a point that has deeper connotations.  It's not always the most productive way to approach an issue, but it usually gets a reaction.


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## celtic_crippler (Sep 1, 2009)

How is asking if there is anything like Affirmative Action in Europe being sarcastic? 

I'd really like to know and I would also be interested in hearing about what other accommodations have been made for the "less fortunate" across the pond in regards to assuring them fair treatment.


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## blindsage (Sep 1, 2009)

celtic_crippler said:


> How is asking if there is anything like Affirmative Action in Europe being sarcastic?


Uhhh...because I said so :xtrmshock


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## MarkBarlow (Sep 1, 2009)

blindsage said:


> Uhhh...because I said so :xtrmshock



That's why I decided to quit responding.  

When you go looking for offense, you'll usually find it.  Besides, it's easy and fashionable to look down on the ignorant and tunnel-visioned Americans.  No point arguing, especially since, in my mind at least, there was never a conflict or disagreement.


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## Tez3 (Sep 1, 2009)

celtic_crippler said:


> How is asking if there is anything like Affirmative Action in Europe being sarcastic?
> 
> I'd really like to know and I would also be interested in hearing about what other accommodations have been made for the "less fortunate" across the pond in regards to assuring them fair treatment.


 

Like many people I respond badly to sarcasm especially when it's a serios subject.
I have posted up on this thread one of the things the EU is doing to help the Roma in Europe not just in Romania. 
This is the European commission that deals with inequality etc.

http://ec.europa.eu/social/main.jsp?catId=423&langId=en


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## Tez3 (Sep 1, 2009)

MarkBarlow said:


> That's why I decided to quit responding.
> 
> When you go looking for offense, you'll usually find it. Besides, it's easy and fashionable to look down on the ignorant and tunnel-visioned Americans. No point arguing, especially since, in my mind at least, there was never a conflict or disagreement.


 
No one ever sees their own posts as being divisive.


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## celtic_crippler (Sep 1, 2009)

WTH did my post go?


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## celtic_crippler (Sep 1, 2009)

Sigh...one more time...



> The insertion of Article 13 was directly followed by the Commission's proposal of an "anti-discrimination package", which included the Community Action Program to Combat Discrimination and both the Racial Equality Directive and the Employment Equality Directive.
> 
> These Directives, adopted in 2000, prohibit discrimination, harassment and victimisation in employment and training on the grounds of religion or belief, disability, age or sexual orientation. They also prohibit discrimination on the grounds of race or ethnic origin, in employment and areas beyond such as education, social security and social advantages, including housing and healthcare, and access to goods and services. While many European countries already had legislation against discrimination, the new laws aim to establish a consistent set of rights and obligations across the


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## celtic_crippler (Sep 1, 2009)

Wtf!?!?!


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## Tez3 (Sep 1, 2009)

celtic_crippler said:


> Wtf!?!?!


 

I was wondering that! It looks like you've been cut off in your prime! Are we missing posts in between too?


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## Bob Hubbard (Sep 1, 2009)

*Mod Note:

Logs show no posts removed. I posted a multipage mess as a test and it went in fine.  Unable to duplicate the issue.  Might be an invisible character in the paste causing the issue.  Try reposting, but use the A/A button (top right of the quick reply box) to switch to text mode.*


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## Brian R. VanCise (Sep 3, 2009)

*Mod Note: *Unfortunately we have not been able to recreate the issue regarding posts not logging.  Though it appears to be an isolated issue.  We will continue to monitor and please report any problems that you have.  Thanks! *

Carry on!
*


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## celtic_crippler (Sep 3, 2009)

No biggie...just more of my heathenistic views. LOL


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## blindsage (Sep 3, 2009)

To mend fences in the discussion a little:

Tez the claim that CC's comment was sarcastic was an implication from me, he says that is not the case.  I probably read more into the OP than intended.

Please continue. :duel:


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