# The Next Step (a little rant)



## Andrew Green (Sep 26, 2004)

Mixed Martial Arts, born out of full contact, limited rules competition between anyone from any style willing to step into the cage or ring. Initially promoted as a bloodbath that could even end in death, then re-marketed and developed as the sport it had become. A sport which as far as contact sports go, is actually on the safe end of things with very few serious injuries and not a single death in a sanctioned event.

MMA has come a long way in the past decade, evolving from a clash of styles, into a style of its own. With its own techniques, strategies, and training methods.

Beginning with the dominance of the grappling stylists, who took down and tapped much larger and stronger opponents with ease. Then come the wrestler, with stronger takedowns, stronger takedown defences, and excellent control on the ground. They could control where the fight took place, and learnt enough about submissions to say safe. Bringing in the ground and pound strategy. Then comes the strikers again, but this time, with a knowledge of the ground, and takedown defences. 

And then the MMAA fighter, someone well versed in all aspects of the game, with the ability to integrate them all, not as 3 separate games, but as one complete style of fighting.

So what comes next?

Well, first needs to be accessibility, a sport that only top athletes can train and play in is not going to get very far. MMA needs to be something that everyone can do, and is fun for them to do, and is also reasonably safe. Pro-football is not safe for everyone, but just about everyone can learn to play flag football in a safe way. MMA needs the same thing.


 This is really not that hard to do, with appropriate padding, some modification on rules and the right ATTITUDE from those playing MMA can be done safely at a low level with very little risk of injury. Anyone from 5 to over 50 can play, have fun, learn the skills and be safe.


This is something that is already being done very successfully by quite a few schools. But others still seem to believe that MMA should be reserved for top athletes only, ones that are interested in competition and already have a competitive record in other sports. This is simply no the case.

And after that?

Well one other step that MMA should be taking is bringing it back from being just a ring sport to being a full martial arts program. Which again, can be done very easily and very safely. Multiple attackers, Weapons, Stun and run tactics, and all the other things MMA gets criticized for not having can be integrated into the same training environment, pressure testing things and learning what works and what doesnt in a safe environment.

MMA right now tends to be rather non-inclusive, and this needs to change. This is a lot more about perception then anything else. It is perceived as something that only competitive combat athletes should be doing, but it isnt. It is not dangerous, it doesnt require anymore physical conditioning then any other sport. Not everyone that does it has to do it with the goal of fighting in mind.


 MMA is something everyone can do, at a number of different levels. Thinking otherwise is like thinking that if you want to play football you have to play the way NFL players do. Not everyone can do that, and not everyone that is playing football has too, why would MMA be any different?


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## Marginal (Sep 27, 2004)

I wonder what the point of nerfed MMA would be. Isn't the "MMA revolution" supposed to be battling against. Softened up, commercialized McDojos that don't teach people how to really fight?


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## Andrew Green (Sep 27, 2004)

The point, is having fun.

Everyone needs a starting point, and you can't always start at full contact MMA.

The question, as in all sports, is how far you take it.

Back too football, it exists at all levels of play, and the lower levels realise that they are not NFL calliber.

Everyone knows how good they are, cause they get out there and play.

MMA can be the same, those that want to do it recreationally can, and those that want to do it professionally can.  The recreational folk won't dellude themselves into thinking they can take the pro's out with there "tiger claw".

And that is what it is about, truth, not fiction.  Knowing where you are in what you do, even if it is at a recreational level.


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## Flatlander (Sep 27, 2004)

You know, Andrew, you make some really good points.  I think that I totally agree with you, though I am not a MMAist, and am largely unaware of the MMA condition.  It all sounds quite reasonable.  Coming from this mindset, I speculate that you must run a pretty good club.  Good to have open minded folk on the board here.  Thanks for contributing!


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## Marginal (Sep 28, 2004)

Andrew Green said:
			
		

> MMA can be the same, those that want to do it recreationally can, and those that want to do it professionally can.  The recreational folk won't dellude themselves into thinking they can take the pro's out with there "tiger claw".



Are you kidding? The first thing that the low impact types will think is "I'm learning MMA. The most effective fighting style out there. It's the same as what UFC fighters learn, so I'm just as effective as they are." 

Except they'll be handed a toolkit minus some foundational basics... Like conditioning etc.


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## Andrew Green (Sep 28, 2004)

Marginal said:
			
		

> Are you kidding? The first thing that the low impact types will think is "I'm learning MMA. The most effective fighting style out there. It's the same as what UFC fighters learn, so I'm just as effective as they are."
> 
> Except they'll be handed a toolkit minus some foundational basics... Like conditioning etc.


no...  I think you are misreading something...

I'm not in any way saying mislead them into believing they are doing something they are not.

This is IMPOSSIBLE as long as they are sparring, and seeing that sparring exists at a higher level and are getting there buts kicked by those that go beyond what they do.

How many people playing flag football do you know that think they are at NFL level because of it?


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## Han-Mi (Sep 28, 2004)

I see what your saying. This would obviously open up the door for mcdojos of the MMA variety a little wider. However, there could be some great steps taken in the right direction with this particular approach. A sort of farm league for the full contact sort, but still no real risk of injury before you start making money for the fights.


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## Marginal (Sep 29, 2004)

Andrew Green said:
			
		

> no...  I think you are misreading something...
> 
> I'm not in any way saying mislead them into believing they are doing something they are not.



It's not a question of you misleading them, it's a question of them misleading themselves. Ego's hard to quash. 



> This is IMPOSSIBLE as long as they are sparring, and seeing that sparring exists at a higher level and are getting there buts kicked by those that go beyond what they do.



How would they see that while they're having fun? Once you match them up with the real thing, fun ends.


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## Andrew Green (Sep 29, 2004)

Have you ever done any MMA training?


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## Zepp (Sep 29, 2004)

Marginal said:
			
		

> It's not a question of you misleading them, it's a question of them misleading themselves. Ego's hard to quash.



Some people will mislead themselves no matter what they train in.  That's not really an issue that's unique to MMA or even to martial arts.



> How would they see that while they're having fun? Once you match them up with the real thing, fun ends.



Oh really?  So you've never sparred anyone in TKD who was better than you, and still had fun?


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## Marginal (Sep 29, 2004)

That's not really what I was getting at. Train people for "fun" then let them see what the real thing's about, some will naturally feel cheated that their "fun" training doesn't measure up. They'll think "It's the same style!" No matter if you tell them it's not the same thing repeatedly. (Especially the casual weekend warrior type which the fun training will ultimately target.)

Also, how many techniques will eventually have to be axed for liability concerns and in the pursuit of saving the fun?


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## Raewyn (Sep 30, 2004)

Andrew Green said:
			
		

> Have you ever done any MMA training?


 I am doing MMA.  I dont know whether Im going off on a tangent here but I find it very enjoyable.  At my dojo we dont just learn one specific style we incorporate alot of other styles of MA.  It makes it interesting learning and i am finding I get alot out of it.


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## Andrew Green (Sep 30, 2004)

Raisin said:
			
		

> I am doing MMA. I dont know whether Im going off on a tangent here but I find it very enjoyable.


Most people that actually do it do find it rather enjoyable and safe.

Many that don't say that it is only for elite athletes, doing it for fun isn't possible, etc.

Which is why I asked the question 

Before you say something can't be done, you should give it a try.


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## Marginal (Sep 30, 2004)

Who's saying it can't be done? The movement's inevatable. The problem is it brings with it the exact pitfalls that MMA was supposed to be exploding in TMA circles. I'm just saying pay attention to the pitfalls (one of which is the esentially lazy nature of casual enthusiasts). 

Someone doing MMA with minimal conditioning's just not going to be anywhere near as effective. They'll probably fall in evenly with most casual TMA pracitioners in fact. Whether you consider that good, bad, or raining on your parade is moot.


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## Shu2jack (Oct 1, 2004)

I think it would be a tough thing to pull off. If you want to do MMA as a recreational activity, that is fine, but there is a limit to where full-contact stops being fun. Like when you are getting pounded on. Some enjoy the learning experience. 50 year olds (who don't recover as quickly) and adults who have to go to work the next morning (and don't want two black eyes at a customer service job everyday) may not find that "fun" or productive. Also, you have to consider that at a recreational level participants will not really know what they are capable of. If I am doing this because it is "fun" and the activity is "safe", then am not learning what I am truly capable of because I don't perceive dangerous situation.


As for doing MMA with muliple opponents......eh. I study TKD and even with the limited amount of striking targets I have seen some bad hits with 2 (or more) on 1 sparring with just moderate contact. Getting hit when you see it coming is one thing. Getting hit when you don't- at full force- is another. Your body is not prepared for the shock. That is something to consider with people who are not at the recreational level and do not have the same level of experience or physical conditioning. You are asking for a law suit.

I am not trying to put down the idea, I think MMA or at least full-contact kick boxing is something every MA should experience, but the same obstacles that TMA have faced- and strugle to deal with- are the same things wide-spread MMA will deal with.


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