# How do you get past the mental thing?



## Quick Sand (Jan 4, 2004)

Hey, people will probably jump on me for this but I'm wondering how you get past some of the mental holdbacks for self defense.

I'll try to be more clear.

I've been doing martial arts for a total of 4 years now. Two years of Jujutsu, 5 years off and now two years of Tae Kwon Do. I've learned lots of self defense techniques and strikes and kicks and stuff so I'd LIKE to think I'd probably be able to defend myself if it came down to it but to be honest I'm not sure.

I've never been able to get myself to do anything full force. I'm scared of hurting myself a bit, but mostly I'm scared of hurting other people. I always hold back and pull my punches and kicks and things even when I'm just working with a bag or target. It's like I have this mental block that won't allow me to go harder.

I hear a lot of people say "I'll do whatever it takes to safe myself or my loved ones." How do you get the point where you know that? If I ever got attacked I still don't know if I"d be able to get past that block and "do what it takes." 

I think by now it's obvious that I'm lucky enough to have never been in a serious situation. The closest I've ever had is last year we had someone come into my MA class with one of those Redman suits, the full padded suit. The idea was that he would attack us and we were supposed to fight back full force because he was well protected so it wouldn't hurt him. I still couldn't do it. The guy was actually saying "Come one, hit me harder." and trying to piss me off or do whatever to flick that switch in my head but it just didn't happen. Nobody has ever been able to flick that switch.  If I'm sparring I'll stand there and try to block anything that gets thrown at me and I'm okay with that, but I find it very difficult to strike back.

I know it sounds stupid but has anyone else ever had this problem or known someone that has? How do you get past it? 

Thanks for listening.


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## Touch Of Death (Jan 5, 2004)

This is a spiritual fitness issue, and a way of overcomming that is to imagine and or compile a list of things you would kill or die for. Once you have established that you would die for your counrty, family, ect. You must realize that to lay down your life means that you are willing to exert deadly force on a threat to you and your's. If you establish a willingness then you owe it to yourself to train for this purpose. That means you must take yourself to a level of intensity, and to hit with a level of intensity, that becomes a serious threat to a real attacker of the things you care for. 
practice hitting things really hard, create a character that  is, "that guy" you know like Robert Denero in "Taxi Driver", or something. Become this person as often as you can, while training. There really has to be a part of you that is willing to go Bear Sarker(he who wears the Bear shirt), and or berzerker, psycho, nuts, balistic, or to just be plain rude and disrespectful.  
Sean


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## loki09789 (Jan 5, 2004)

Unfortunately, there is no tried and true way of making sure that you will be able to 'do it' in the real deal until you get there.  Also, even if you do it one time, it doesn't mean that - if there is a next time - that you will be able to do it again.  Clauswitz (sp?) was a military strategist working with the American Revolutionary army and said something like:  It is easy to train men to fight in combat for the first time, the hard part is to get them to do it again"

The only advice I could give is to through on some sparring pads and do some full contact sparring or some mixed martial arts (UFC) type training to tap into that fighting spirit that you are seeking.  The environment will, firstly, give you permission mentally to hit harder because those are the rules of the training.  It will MAKE you match the intensity of the attack coming at you as well.

I am not a proponant of sparring as the end all and be all of self defense focused martial arts training, but I think it has it's place to teach exactly this type of skill and internal awareness.

I liked the idea of making a list of things that you think you would be willing to fight/hurt someone over (family, self preservation, home defense...).  The idea is to know your lines of tolerance and stand by them.  You don't sound like the type, but there are many people who are blow hards and when push comes to shove will back down because they verbally/physically committed to something that they were not prepared to back up (bullies,...)


Know yourself and what you love and you will know what you are willing to sacrifice for.

Paul Martin


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## loki09789 (Jan 5, 2004)

sorry for the long winded posting, but here's something else to try

Learn your local laws on justified use of force and deadly force so you know the types of situations where you will be within the law to defend yourself.  Knowledge is power and that might help boost your confidence when you know/train for the right response for the right situation.

Paul martin


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## hardheadjarhead (Jan 6, 2004)

Quick Sand....

Good question.  A very good question.

I honestly don't know an easy answer as to how people can get to that point of being able to emotionally step up to the plate and do what's necessary to defend themselves.  I know how SOME do it...but not all.

I've known some rape victims that were more than ready to fight to whatever level of intensity necessary...and I knew one rape victim who said she' couldn't bring herself to maim an attacker.  Trauma, it seems, isn't always a motivater.

TOD wrote about listing the things you'd kill and die for.  Not a lot of people stop to ponder these things, I've found.  Its a good thing to do.  He gave some sound advice.

The next time you read of some horrendous crime against a person...visualize that happening to a loved one.  Then visualize yourself intervening.  Try to muster up a sense of righteous indignation...if not outright rage...at the thought of some freak molesting your wife, stabbing your mother, beating your father to death with a pipe...whatever it takes to shock you into an emotional state appropriate for cutting loose.  Hold on to those feelings for awhile and explore them once you've tapped into them through the visualization.  Don't reject them outright.

The problem is...can you then cut loose if the victim is you?  So many of my students in the past have been decent, gentle people who couldn't really contemplate hurting another in self defense.  

Visualize yourself being attacked.  Visualize losing (in the worst way...visualize your families reaction to your death).  Visualize winning.  But always visualize your response as being one that is realistic and effective...and if necessary (and I submit it will often be so)...brutal.  


Regards,


Steve


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## TonyM. (Jan 7, 2004)

I'm a believer in if something is worth doing, it's worth doing well. If I bother to strike I'm gonna strike hard and get the job done. I think any project started should be finished. When my cat catches a mouse it doesn't say to itself "aw heck with it." It eats the mouse. Unless of course the mouse is acting funny which is why cats play with their prey, to make sure there not sick. If someone assaults you and you don't put them down hard there's a good chance the fight is not over. For me the largest part of fighting is convincing my opponent they're not going to win. This can happen even before contact. If you're opponent thinks they can beat you, you're going to have trouble.


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## MA-Caver (Jan 7, 2004)

To hit or not to hit...that is the question? 
When I was growing up I was bullied quite a bit. I fought back best as I could and still got my butt whupped. Then I saw Billy Jack and my first Bruce Lee movie (Chinese Connection/aka Fist of Fury) when they first came out in the theaters (to give a scope of my age) and found and learned MA. Since then, over the years I've found myself in situations that called for real-life, real-time, no screwing around self-defense. I've never been afraid to hurt the attacker because I've found out that 99.999% of the time they're out to hurt ME. Well I had have enough of that growing up and I said no more.

Ironically I'm a pacifist at heart. I detest and try to avoid physical  violence whenever possible. In 70% of the altercations I've had with people over the years, avoidance has proved a worthwhile endeavor. The remaining percentage there was no getting around it. I had to hit back else I'd be hurting and or in the hospitial and OR dead. As much as I hate real-life violence (I love a good action movie...because its _not real life_ ) I will not hesitate to use it to prevent it. If given the opportunity I will ask you then I will tell you to stop what you are doing but if you persist then I will do what I "must" to stop you. 

No man knows exactly what they're capable of doing in any given situation until they find themselves in it. We train, we practice, we prepare (mentally and physically ...and spiritually) for the unknown. Still we make choices when we find ourselves in life/body threatening situations.  They may not always be the choices we anticipate them to be. Practice and training and more practice will prepare ourselves to do what we must. 

You ask yourself if you will be able to inflict the harm that you've been learning to do.  Other replies to your query have given good advice on searching yourself to find out if you are capable. I'll not add upon those because they're good answers and you do need to find out what your innerself is telling you for yourself and by yourself. 

MA is self defense, but it's also a spiritual journey the deeper we delve into it. Knowing yourself, knowing the depths of your own soul and what you believe in (values) will help in answering that question. I had to learn the hard-way. Your path may not be as difficult. 

How fortunate you are indeed that you "never been in a serious situation." Wish I could say the same. Point is either you will or you won't. If you don't want to see yourself or someone you love/care about get hurt then do what you must. Get you or them out of that situation, call the police and let them handle it or take the matter into your own hands. Learning to decide _what_  to do is just as essential to self defense as learning punches, kicks, throws and holds.

Mankind is a violent species and I believe that it is ingrained in each of us to create violence. We just have to choose the how, where, why and when. 

If you're still afraid of hurting someone but still want to be able to defend against the unexpected... then find an art where you will be able to hold a person effectively til they calm down enough to stop wanting to hurt you. Hapkido and Aikido are good ones for that as well as your parent art Jujutsu. There are other arts which teach minimal harm techniques as well. 
Do one more thing also... don't struggle with this question too much. Relax and let it flow and keep learning for the purposes that you chose to learn your art.  Time will tell eventually. 

-------------------------------------------
Jeez I rant too much sometimes... :asian:


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## Touch Of Death (Jan 7, 2004)

I think the problem has more to do with the fact that we train our children that violence is never the answer, and that we should try to be liked at all costs. We don't hit our hardest because we worry about the other persons feelings. This enforced empathy, is just what we need to grease the wheels of a functional society that relies on authorities to deal with our problems. But the devil is in the details, we are left with individuals incapable of going the distance when threatened.
Sean


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## CanuckMA (Jan 7, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Touch'O'Death _
> *I think the problem has more to do with the fact that we train our children that violence is never the answer, and that we should try to be liked at all costs. We don't hit our hardest because we worry about the other persons feelings. This enforced empathy, is just what we need to grease the wheels of a functional society that relies on authorities to deal with our problems. But the devil is in the details, we are left with individuals incapable of going the distance when threatened.
> Sean *



Then we need to teach our kids differently. I do MA with my 12 year old. I teach him that on school property, with that 'zero tolerance' policy, if another kid hits him, he is to run to the neareast teacher. Anywhere else, he is to hit back as hard and viciously as he can to get away. If getting away is not possible, he is to hit until to assailant is on the ground, then hit him some more. I am a pacifist, however, if I or my loved ones were at risk I have no doubt that I would kill.


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## loki09789 (Jan 8, 2004)

Kids are hard to teach judgement and discrimination (scientific use, not the social use), but I have taught my 11 year old the same basic concept of self defense:  If you can do it talk your way out, if not walk your way out, if not run, if not defend yourself then run.  Of course, it is not a step by step process as much as a continuum so you can jump steps or go right to the response that fits the moment.

I have to agree that it is harder to teach younger people the right balance and judgement about using force and negotiation.  


Does anyone else see either hunting/woodscraft/wilderness survival experience or farming/agricultural experiences growing up as an asset in this part of growing up?

I grew up hunting/fishing/trapping and worked briefly on a farm when I was young.  I really think that the reality of life and death, responsibility and consequence can't be told to people they have to really do it to understand early.  

It is amazing to think that there are 'backwards' or 'primitive' cultures where kids my son's age would be considered on the brink of manhood, ready to hunt and fight for their family and tribe/clan within a year or two.

Paul martin


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## LadyDragon (Jan 8, 2004)

Ultimately, you're not going to truely go full force with any one until you're actually put in a situation where you have to.  In class we all pull punches a bit.  We don't want to hurt our training partner.

But the reality is that until we have no other choice, and we realize that the situation is life or death, or we feel that we must protect ourselves from whatever is out there, and that fight or flight instinct kicks in, none of us will truely know what we're capable of.


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## MisterMike (Jan 8, 2004)

I felt the same way when I started training. Now I know that I would blaze through an attack if the situation ever arose, with little concern for not hitting hard enough.

But the funny thing is once in a while I have a dream where I cannot do anything. Can't run, fight, or hit hard. Then I wake up and go - Why didn't I pummel that creap?


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## Touch Of Death (Jan 8, 2004)

> _Originally posted by MisterMike _
> *I felt the same way when I started training. Now I know that I would blaze through an attack if the situation ever arose, with little concern for not hitting hard enough.
> 
> But the funny thing is once in a while I have a dream where I cannot do anything. Can't run, fight, or hit hard. Then I wake up and go - Why didn't I pummel that creap?  *


 I always dream my hardest punches are having no effect.


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## TonyM. (Jan 9, 2004)

The slo-mo dreams go away with time and practice. As you actually get a lot faster you will have the dreams less until they stop. Amazing self defence mechanism we humans have. If you don't train enough it's going to mess with you in your dreams.


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## Touch Of Death (Jan 9, 2004)

> _Originally posted by TonyM. _
> *The slo-mo dreams go away with time and practice. As you actually get a lot faster you will have the dreams less until they stop. Amazing self defence mechanism we humans have. If you don't train enough it's going to mess with you in your dreams. *


 I 100% disagree with you. Once your insecurity goes away then what is your motivation to train? Ed Parker said, "He who is great realizes that what he knows is really very little." You should never delude yourself, even in your dreams, into believing you are completly prepared.:soapbox: 
Sean


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## theletch1 (Jan 9, 2004)

This is an excellent thread.  I just had this conversation with one of my girls the other day.   She is a very "soft hearted" young lady and I've often wondered if she would have enough of the "killer instinct" to do what had to be done in a self defense situation.  In class she will only work with the biggest guy in her class because she is afraid of hurting the other children.  By the end of our conversation, in which I described as graphicly as possible what might be necessary, I think we both understood some things a bit better.  She knows a bit more about what kind of damage she may have to inflict and I understand that she feels that she avoids hurting other kids because she knows that she is capable of doing a lot of damage if pushed to that point.


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## Tgace (Jan 10, 2004)

> _Originally posted by loki09789 _
> *Does anyone else see either hunting/woodscraft/wilderness survival experience or farming/agricultural experiences growing up as an asset in this part of growing up?
> 
> I grew up hunting/fishing/trapping and worked briefly on a farm when I was young.  I really think that the reality of life and death, responsibility and consequence can't be told to people they have to really do it to understand early.
> ...



The hunter is the root of the warrior tradition. It wasnt much of a leap for our primitive ancestors to go from killing game to killing the neighboring tribesman who tried to muscle in on his turf. Same technical applications... The early colonial "Rangers" were selected from among woodsmen and hunters. Jim Cirillo of the NYPD stakeout squad (1970's...sat on businesses in high robbery rate areas..got into a crazy number of gunfights) said he liked to pick hunters for the squad. And on the darker side...one of the law enforcement signifiers that a person may become a killer  is evidence of torture/killing of animals as practice to moving up to humans. Not that I recommend taking up hunting to get the "killer instinct", but if its something that interested you anyway, it can be a real eyeopener into your true feelings about taking life. Personally, I always feel a twinge of saddness and regret. But as a meat eater it supplys food and keeps the reality of where that Meat from the grocery store really comes from firmly planted in my mind.


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## Quick Sand (Jan 10, 2004)

I went hunting once with my father and a friend of his when I was about 8 or 10. They shot a phesant and I cryed for probably like 20 minutes. Later, they nailed a paper plate to a dead tree stump and (with their help) they let me fire a few shots with the rifle. I was fine with shotting at a dead tree but I don't think I could do a live animal myself. 

Thanks for all your input everyone. It's really interesting getting everybodys advice and help. Really appreicate it.   

Keep it coming.


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## loki09789 (Jan 13, 2004)

When I was helping out on a farm ages 9-11 , I remember playing with this one pig that I liked.  It was like a pet in my mind because it was funny and played with me... well it got slaughtered because it was there for a reason whether I liked it or not.  I felt bad for a while, but ultimately it came down to accepting that the pig was being raised for food, not pleasure.  The gruesome reality of it - seeing the pig hanging as they processed it for butchering (gory details omitted for politeness) woke me up to the reality of death and I don't think that from that moment on I "romanticised" death or killing.  I knew that death was messy and final.  

When I started hunting, I found myself hesitating on occasion because I wasn't sure if I could do it.  WHen I got my first deer, and every one since, I feel bad because it is dead and I did it blah blah... but I know that it is for a purpose (meat on the table, population control - we did improve their feeding grounds but eliminate their predators after all)... and again the gutting process is a reality check that takes any idealistic glory or nobility away from killing/death.

I am not saying that it is for everyone.  I am saying that those expericences of real, personal contacts helped me know myself and my feelings/thoughts about this issue.

Paul martin


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## GaryM (Jan 13, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Quick Sand _
> * I always hold back and pull my punches and kicks and things even when I'm just working with a bag or target.  *



There is something REALLY wrong here. I don't know how to tell you to overcome this, but if you can't even get yourself to hit an inanimant (sp?) object with authority I'm afraid there's no hope for you. Start with this problem and overcome it. If you train your body to 'pull' your punches guess what you'll do when doo doo hits the fan. Normally I train students to overcome fear and anger, but YOU may need to train yourself to become angry when necessary. It is not an efficient way to fight for most people, but it may be the only way for you. 
         Do your own taxes longform, then go hit the bag. If that doesn't make you mad you must be the reincarnation of Ghandi.


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## Tgace (Jan 13, 2004)

Quick Sand,
I haven been able to determine from your posts or profile, are you male or female and what age bracket are you in?


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## Touch Of Death (Jan 13, 2004)

Rebreakable boards might help. If you don't hit them hard enough you feel incredible pain. There is a chance you aren't moving properly. Not only should you be kneeling into your strikes but direct thrusts off the hip ain't going to cut it. Your fist should go up before it goes out. The upward motion of your fist to an upercut position should drop your shoulder out of socket for a pure thrust.:asian: 
Sean


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## MA-Caver (Jan 14, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Tgace _
> *<snip> Personally, I always feel a twinge of saddness and regret. But as a meat eater it supplys food and keeps the reality of where that Meat from the grocery store really comes from firmly planted in my mind. *



Well try to remember this as well. The meat that comes packaged from the store comes from cattle standing around in a pen until they're herded into a processing line. I sincerely doubt that there's some group of guys sneaking around in camos taking shots at the cows so they'd be hauled off to processing. Deer and elk and the occasional buffalo/bison but hardly cattle.


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## tshadowchaser (Jan 14, 2004)

I am not sure if there is a correct answere to your question. But I am willing to bet that if a family member was in trouble or if you thought your life or the life or well being of a loved on involved you might find that you could do a full power technique.
Not doing full power even against a pillow is one thing but change the pillow to someone who has just raped a loved one or who is kicking the crap out of a loved one and it will be a different story


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## Quick Sand (Jan 14, 2004)

Tgace: I'm female and in my early 20's. 

TO'D: I haven't tried re-breakable boards but I did do one single board break once. My instructor didn't explain it to me and then he told me to try a centre punch. Most people I know start with a hammer fist downward but this was a straight forward centre punch. I didn't hit it correctly and didn't break it on the first strike. I hit it again and got it the second time but the damage was already done. The knuckle on that hand never quite went back down to it's original size and still sticks out a bit a year and a half later. 

GaryM: I know there's a problem. That's what I started the thread in the first place. To see if anyone had advice. As for my taxes, my parents do them because of some complications and stuff. Thanks for the idea though. 

Tshadowchaser: I hope you're right.


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## GaryM (Jan 14, 2004)

Quick sand, 
           Here's something that I can almost gaurantee will work. If you can gain access to one, start working out on a speed bag. You know, the ones that hang below a flat board at head height, that boxers use.  It will be frustrating at first. They are all about rythm, timing, and accuracy, NOT power. But as you get better at it you will find that you start hitting it harder and harder (with little effort). Stay relaxed. Alternate two punches with your right then two with the left.  Punch straight in circling down and back and straight in, then the other hand. Use hand wraps to protect your hands(or light bag gloves). This is a great workout and it will do wonders for your punching ability. I don't want to criticise your instructor for having you smash your fist into a board without properly conditioning your hands, but I have always consdered breaking to be a demonstration of your striking ability, not a training tool per say. The only way to develope useful punching power is repition. As you get the hang of it start to vary the pattern of your strikes.  Three or four with one hand, 'bob and weave' towards that hand and hit with the other hand  three or four. Use hand wraps when you hit the heavy bag to protect your wrists. This won't give you 'bad habits', it will just keep you from damaging yourself if you mess up. Best wishes, Gary


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## Touch Of Death (Jan 14, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Quick Sand _
> *
> 
> TO'D: I haven't tried re-breakable boards but I did do one single board break once. My instructor didn't explain it to me and then he told me to try a centre punch. Most people I know start with a hammer fist downward but this was a straight forward centre punch. I didn't hit it correctly and didn't break it on the first strike. I hit it again and got it the second time but the damage was already done. The knuckle on that hand never quite went back down to it's original size and still sticks out a bit a year and a half later.
> *


I'm sorry to hear that. Well at least you know the incredible pain aspect of not hitting through the board. Re Breakable boards can come with a padded surface as well. I always end up cutting my knuckles with real boards. Don't feel alone a lot of people end up trying to break a board that is "greener" than the others in the stack, and a lot of damage can be done( and not a scratch on the board mind you). I'll write more later gotta go
Sean


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## Quick Sand (Jan 15, 2004)

GaryM: Feel free to criticise my instructor. He's really not very good. His instructor comes up sometimes and that guy is amazing. We also have, and have had in the past, a couple of good brown belts that usually keep our instructor in line. I shouldn't have tried the break that night but it was a demo for our club and he asked if anyone else wanted to try. Everyone had been doing hammerfist so I thought I'd be doing that too. When he told me to try the punch I didn't really have time to think about it. 

Before people start jumping on me for staying with a bad instructor, like I said, we've had some really good assistant instructors that have training from other people in the association and sometimes other black belts come and teach our class. I can't afford to go to a real dojo/dojang so I'm taking the class that's offered on campus and is really cheap. Now that I've been there for a while (two years now) I know when to kind of disregard what my instructor says and when to go to other people. I'm moving at the end of the school year anyway because I'm graduating and I'm hoping to find a good school in my new city. 

My instructor is a really nice guy, with a heart of gold, but he's just not training anymore and he hasn't been for a few years. He's not current with everything that's going on in our association and he's pretty set in "the old ways" that he learned a long time ago. I'm on the excutive for our club and part of my job is to keep in touch with the association and I'm often in touch with his instructor so I get information for the club through him. I tell our instructor everything but he often doesn't seem to pay much attention because a week later he'll forget. Unfortunately there are no other instructors from my assication in the area or the class probably would have been given to someone else. The main dojang for our association is an hour and a half away, across the border so it's not easy for them to come up. Other students that have trained in my club that have done well and become black belts or brown belt assistant instructors etc., all moved away when the finished university so they're like 3 hours away or more.

Wow, sorry people. I didn't mean for that post to end up that long. :soapbox:


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## loki09789 (Jan 15, 2004)

> _Originally posted by MACaver _
> *Well try to remember this as well. The meat that comes packaged from the store comes from cattle standing around in a pen until they're herded into a processing line. I sincerely doubt that there's some group of guys sneaking around in camos taking shots at the cows so they'd be hauled off to processing. Deer and elk and the occasional buffalo/bison but hardly cattle.
> *



I don't think that TGACE forgot that cattle are lined up... well, like cattle and slaughtered with a nail gun and then processed into the various shrink wrapped packages in the cold section of the store.  I think the point was that death is a part of life, and hunting keeps the reality of death in perspective.   Regardless of what level of life you are discussing, survival neccessitates that something has to die for something else to live.

Paul Martin


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## tshadowchaser (Jan 15, 2004)

Breaking boards is also a mental excerise. I once pounded on a poor but lonely 1 inch x 12 x 12 peace of pine. My knuckles where bloody as I dropped the poor thing and struck it , time and time again. The next night I walked into the school smiled , held it up, droped it and broke it with two fingers and almost no power.
I knew on the 2nd day that I could do it and that I had just been frustrated on the first day


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## loki09789 (Jan 16, 2004)

It sounds like there could be a connection between your 'holding back'/insecurity about full out performing and your opinion of your head instructor.  If you have doubts about your training, you will have doubts about your technique/ability within your training.  

I still say that you should either get some full contact experience - with instructors who know how to ease you into it progressively.  If you don't have time/money to do that, see if you can get some side training from one of the assistant instructors you do trust on full contact/semi contact work.  Focus mitt drills while the holder is barking at you can get really irritating and may help you tap into that innner fire that you need in order to break through this peronally induced inhibition.

If you could start with some weapon striking on a tire/heavy bag, or as silly as it sounds, go to a batting cage and whack balls for distance.  Training the nervous system to 'do it' all out may override your mental block.  

Easier said than done sometimes, but get a little zen and just do it - get out of your head, and hit!

A friend of mine and training partner for years now put it best:  in a real fight you will feel one of two things fear or pissed.  You have to decide ahead of time how you will respond when either one arises.

Paul Martin


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## Brian King (Jan 16, 2004)

Quick Sand my friend,
You seem to have a couple of problems that many people have but often fail to realize that they have them, so congratulations on the self awareness.

Problem one. Afraid to hurt your training partner. If you are training where full commitment is needed and you are holding back you are cheating your training partner, and you are cheating yourself. Your partner wants and needs that feedback that your attack gives them. By holding back you rob your partner of that important feedback. Some of my easiest and best learned lessons were those that showed me my weaknesses. You could tell me that I was open or dropping my guard a hundred times, a shot connecting only had to happen once (or twice Im slow that way some times) for me to understand.

Problem two. Afraid to hurt yourself while throwing hard punches and kicks. This seems to me a confidence issue. Often problem one above hides this problem with-in it and cloaks the lack of confidence in a selfless, self righteous mask of Ghandi. You have said that you have hurt yourself (in front of people) doing a punching technique. You have likely injured your self at other times while punching the heavy bag or training partner. If your punching is weak and you keep injuring yourself it is no wonder that you dont want to throw hard. You said that you have access to some good instructors. It would be worth gold for you to get with one and do a private lesson just covering punching. The wrist position, which knuckles, position of fist. Once you have had the private lesson work on the bags progressively, please dont walk up to a heavy bag and start hitting it full force right away. Start slow, work on form and then work on flow. As you are hitting the bag (with moderate force) every now and then slip in a harder blow. If you hurt yourself stop immediately, analyze what happened that made you injure yourself. Be honest with yourself about the injury. It is better to stop or go back to working on form and flow only and let the injury heal than to tough your way thru the workout (reinforcing to yourself that this hurts.)

For some people the fear is a self esteem issue, in that they think that they either deserve the beating or that they dont have the right to protect themselves (its my fault).  G S this doesnt seem to be the issue for you. For these people professional help should be sought.

Good luck
See you on the mat soon
Friends
Brian


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## Tgace (Jan 16, 2004)

Maybe Quick Sand has discovered what many "combatives" systems have been preaching for a while. Closed fist punches are ill advised to targets other than the stomach and/or torso and even  then... maybe. Closed fist/breaking techniques are throwbacks to the days when pesant fighters had to fight armored samurai and the like. Palm strikes, elbows and forearms are just as effective.


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## Disco (Jan 17, 2004)

Everybody has a point within their "inner person", that will allow them to react to a hostile threat. The fairer sex, due to the way the majority have been reared, has that reaction button fairly well encased/protected from being pushed. This is not the fault of the individual, but rather a fault of society. OK, so how is it overcomed? The sad truth is that it cannot be overcomed by mere practice of techniques or working out. All that does is to prepare the body to react and the body can't react unless the brain allows it to. I'll relate a story that may shed some light on this problem.

A good 30 years ago, I was instructing womens self defense classes. Two week courses of 3 nights a week. Granted, not real martial arts training, but it wasen't susposed to be. This was just straight up dirty street survival. Last class we do a demo. I picked the smallest female in the class. Prior to getting on the mat, I spoke with her husband, who was a fellow police officer and explained what i intended to do. OK, were on the mat and I've got all my protective gear on. I started a verbal barrage on her that would make a sailor blush. I pushed, grabbed, smacked (not real hard) and just bullied the hell out of her. This went on for almost 5 minutes. Yes almost a full 5 minutes of taking a lot of crap. Now during this time, the other ladies in the seating area were screaming at me and yelling at her to get me. Some even tried to come on the mat after me. I had fully alienated every female in the building. Finally she reached her point of no return and came at me like a bat out of hell. She was punching and crying and kicking and crying and yelling and crying and the other ladies were yelling "get em - kill the SOB and so on". I was finally able to smother her assualt and got her calmed down to just sobs and heavy breathing. I then turned to the ladies in the stands and said - "Look how long it took for her to react" - If this was in the streets, she's as good as dead. You could hear a pin drop in the gym. It hit everyone of them smack in the face. 

Only you can give yourself the permission to become unshackled physically. Some of the suggestions about thinking of something to motivate you is not bad. The best way, if your in formal training, is to spar and to keep on sparring until you feel the change. You will feel the change if you stay with it and keep taking it up a notch everytime you do spar. Remember, an integral part of the martial arts is self discipline. Sometime in your life, you have had to have been really mad at something or someone. That's your first element in finding and controling "the button". You are not the first or the last to battle this human affiction, but it is cureable. Believe in yourself and your training and it wouldn't hurt to get one of the assistant instructors to push you a little. All the best and let us know when the transformation occurs. 

:asian:


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## INDYFIGHTER (Dec 7, 2004)

Had a co-worker tell me he lets his seven year old nephew hit him as hard as the kid can muster in the face.  Says that when he was that age he was scared of hurting anyone, problem was the other boys in his class didn't have any hang-ups about it. :whip: 

He also added that if he couldn't take a full on hit from a seven year old...

Seemed kind of funny to me.


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## AC_Pilot (Jan 6, 2005)

Hardjarhead,


I totally agree with your post.. this is exactly what I have done to prepare my mind and body to defend me and mine..studying actual incidents can build tactical awareness and make you more hard core for sure.


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## sgtmac_46 (Jan 7, 2005)

Quick Sand said:
			
		

> Hey, people will probably jump on me for this but I'm wondering how you get past some of the mental holdbacks for self defense.
> 
> I'll try to be more clear.
> 
> ...


Don't worry, if you're not willing to hurt your opponent, he's willing to hurt you. It'll work itself out.  It was said of Wild Bill Hickock that he wasn't the fastest gun, nor the best shot, that made him dangerous.  It was the fact that he killed the other man, before the other man was done thinking about it.  Cold deliberation.  I've studied hard, bad men most of my life, both those I know and those i've only read about.  One thing they all had in common was the fact that in a violent confrontation, they engaged in it with cold deliberation.  They committed to a response, and simply carried it out without further reflection.  Total committment to whatever they decided was the solution.  Skill and physical prowess take a back seat to cold deliberation in a real confrontation.  If you aren't sure you can hurt another person, you lack the commitment to succeed in a confrontation with someone who brings deliberate action to bear, no matter what your abilities are.  As R. Lee Ermey said in Full Metal Jacket, "It's the hard heart that kills."  The ability to place a shot in the 10 ring is secondary to the committment to place the bullet in a human brain.


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## Flamebearer (Jan 8, 2005)

Hello, Quick Sand!

I know several ladies (and men) that have had issues with going all out, not being aggressive, etc. Fortunately (or unfortunately) I don't have a problem with that - I'm naturally aggressive. But I have watched people with this "mental block" gradually overcome it. While I'm not sure exactly what happened "inside", it usually did take time. So don't be disappointed if you don't change overnight. And, after all, the only times when you need to be aggressive are in training and in an actual situation. All these exercises sound great. 




			
				Touch'O'Death said:
			
		

> I always dream my hardest punches are having no effect.


Once I dreamed that I killed someone with bare hands. I woke up sweating, especially when I realized that I would actually do it if I needed to. Unnerving...

-Flamebearer


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## AC_Pilot (Jan 8, 2005)

To those ladies (or any untrained or newbie folks) who have the feeling of being ineffectual, you need the following:

The proper TOOLS or natural body WEAPONS. In many cases a good kali eye jab perhaps followed up by a groin "scoop" kick, http://www.black-eagle.org/pananjakman.htm etc.. will get your attacker off you long enough to access a weapon or escape. A 125 lb woman will NOT harm a strong or crazy man with a punch. I have been punched by strong men and received no more than a bloody nose and subsequently won the (street) fight in seconds. You CAN "win" and escape if you train to use your most effective TOOLS: Fingers (to the eyes)  elbows, knees, low line kicks, headbutts. These are the tools, as Paul Vunak always says, that will take a big man out of commission, if used correctly.

You would not take a steak knife to a gunfight, so don't try ineffective tools in a fight. 
_________________________________________
The proper techniques/tactics. This can be tricking them into thinking you are not going to fight back [like my avatar, Puss in Boots  ] then exploding on them suddenly, all out, with the right tools. She who hesitates is lost.

Targeting vital body systems. These are basically and simply: The groin, eyes, throat, heart (an accurate and powerful iron palm strike or brutal Savate toe kick can shut down or damage the heart and other organs, both require mastery and years of hard work to develop IMO] and the joints and the instep (foot bones, using a foot stomp). The best way for anyone to take out a knee joint is the oblique or the "tilting" or cantilevered side kick to the knee or slightly below the knee. If they can't run after you then you can escape. Having received one of these full bore from a powerful martial artist (sparring gone awry on his part) and being taken out of full activity for over a year as a result, I can tell you they work. IMO sparring in real world combative arts can be more dangerous than a real world fight, since you are supposed to be holding back and can't take them out immediately, and therefore you are at the mercy of your partner. Because of this I am very careful who I will actually spar with these days. I will train otherwise with anyone.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Trust what your mind is telling you. Don't overestimate yourself or you'll end up in trouble. Until and unless you gain the skill and confidence, borne of reality and sucessful sparring against males, carry pepper spray or a pistol if you can get training, and use your body as emergency backup only. Use your mind as your primary weapon and avoid dangerous places and people, be tactically smart and always stay in a calm but fully alert mode.


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## dubljay (Jan 8, 2005)

I do not feel that I have experience to explain this from my own trials of life.  However I found this article posted on Mr. LaBounty's website to be quite usefull in helping clear this barrier.

http://thesigung.com/dojo_fit.html

 I myself have been placed in a situation where my skills were necessary and without really thining about it I sucessfully managed to exit without injury to myself.


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## Han-Mi (Jan 9, 2005)

Just to add my 2 cents, though it may not be needed after all these posts, I have a bit of a "gun shy" disposition as well. I am actually a second dan BB, I'm 20 and I've been training for 13 years.(never shot anything living either). I, however, know that I can release the full extent of my force and ability because I have been in full contact competitions. This, though still a sport with rules, was a good indicator for me that I could release if I needed to. I have never had to go beyond joint locks and actually fight a person, so I don't know what would happen in actual combat, but I have a feeling I would be fine.
My gun shy problem I believe is from working with lower ranks almost all the time, there aren't many ppl at the level I am at in my small town, in fact, they are either below me or they are the few above me, there are no equals in rank and/or experience(not trying to be arrogant, just stating that my experience is a lot for the area I'm in, though it doesnt come close to the higher up instructors in my area). The way I let out my full power is on the heavy bags, it is a good way to get used to practicing at full power. Nobody gets hurt, so you don't have to fear that, and it is ok if you start out below max power and build up to it, just get your adrenaline flowin and it will all fall into place. It is good to have the confidence to know that you can pull it out when you need it, in case you ever have to.


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## MA-Caver (Jan 9, 2005)

dubljay said:
			
		

> I do not feel that I have experience to explain this from my own trials of life.  However I found this article posted on Mr. LaBounty's website to be quite usefull in helping clear this barrier.
> 
> http://thesigung.com/dojo_fit.html
> 
> I myself have been placed in a situation where my skills were necessary and without really thining about it I sucessfully managed to exit without injury to myself.


Most excellent and should be posted here rather gone to the link. 


> *Sigung Stephen LaBounty*
> Issues of Fitness for the Martial Artist
> 
> I wish to post these thoughts for consideration on why a Martial Artist must be more than dojo fit, he/she should be incident fit.
> ...


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## MA-Caver (Jan 9, 2005)

dubljay said:
			
		

> I do not feel that I have experience to explain this from my own trials of life.  However I found this article posted on Mr. LaBounty's website to be quite usefull in helping clear this barrier.
> 
> http://thesigung.com/dojo_fit.html
> 
> I myself have been placed in a situation where my skills were necessary and without really thining about it I sucessfully managed to exit without injury to myself.


Most excellent and should be posted here rather gone to the link. (The underlines, italics and colors are mine to "answer" Quick Sands initial questions)


> *Sigung Stephen LaBounty*
> Issues of Fitness for the Martial Artist
> 
> I wish to post these thoughts for consideration on why a Martial Artist must be more than dojo fit, he/she should be incident fit.
> ...


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## dubljay (Jan 9, 2005)

I should have posted the whole article, I was just trying to keep my post length down is all.


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