# to dancingalone and who ever want to respond



## Manny (Jan 4, 2011)

Hi dancingalone this is a post for you because we know each other very well but anyone else who wants to contribute to this post is very wellcome.

Let's start. The TKD I precticed in my dojang is sporty-kidie oriented, we have maybe around 60 students, alot of children, some teens, 8 moms and no more than 5 men. basically the class is about pommsae and sport kyorugi, very few one and three steps sparring and very few self defense technikes practice, cero bunkai, and very few self defense aplications. Most of the times kicking to the air or kicking the palchaguis, and once a week fully wtf sparring.

I am a 43 yaeras old man with a little owerweight that can't kick very high, can't spin/jump and kick and doing aerial kicks hurt my feel alot, you know joints like ankles and my feet problem.

I am searching a martial art that does not put so much effort in kicking as do TKD and more oriented to hand techs simple and sound kicks that has a lot of self defense techs and the training will be oriented to martial/seld defense and no to sporty.

Traditional karate I think couald be a good choice, the clips I've seen in the internet are very nice, the katas are so beautiful and strong and the self defense apears to be good.

What ryu or style of karate should I go look forward? There are so much ryus and can be counfusing.

Some times TKD is a little boring and I feel I am not learning something new.

Respectfully.

Manny


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## bluewaveschool (Jan 4, 2011)

I think you need a TKD school with a different focus.  We make sure our students know hand techs, sound kicks, don't ask for head height kicks, plenty of time devoted to SD, not too much time spent on sparring, don't have enough time for everything.


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## Tez3 (Jan 4, 2011)

I think the first question would be 'what do you have available around you'? It would be a shame if you gave up TKD though but if you couldn't find a place to train that suits you I'd say see if you could find a Wado Ryu place.

I started Wado quite late in life with no experience, I couldn't kick high, still can't but it doesn't matter. The stances are shorter than TKDs and some other karate styles. It's quite precise and because it's not hugely well known doesn't seem to have been diluted too much. Not one for the kiddies I suspect.


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## Master Dan (Jan 4, 2011)

bluewaveschool said:


> I think you need a TKD school with a different focus. We make sure our students know hand techs, sound kicks, don't ask for head height kicks, plenty of time devoted to SD, not too much time spent on sparring, don't have enough time for everything.


 
Very good points, we focus on age appropiate conditioning, PoomSe at many levels, multi layered SD progressing based on age and ability, Weopons both use and SD against with both standard 1 to 3 step then break downs on how to modify based on age and ability adding joint and other applications to both the PoomSe applications plus the SD steps.

Absolutely no people over 40 jumping or hard impact with to much shocking of back or joints, feet, ankles but conditioning to protect against injury. High and head kicks? please by 40 you should be learning the smarter moves head yes after it is at belly, knee or ground level. Lots of games and adaptations for kids including demo stuff music weopons, also Dance groups Dragon or Lion Dance. 

For anyone thinking TKD is boring or you have hit the end go and get more education there is so much to learn and do both within and out. Go online and look for conditioning games for kids we do TKD Frisbe and TKD volley ball. For adults start supplimenting with additional learning in SD weopons take downs and controls under actual stress and resistance. Look at the events in Hanmadang so many catagories so creative something for everyone every age and every level train for those and go and compete.

I strongly suggest as opposed to just droping and going to train in Karate or Okinowin basics to pay money and attend good quality seminars put on by a renowned GM's Jack Hogan or Dillman someone similar to them or one of thier personal prominent students spending a week with them training. Bring in some guest teachers to do seminars.


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## Flying Crane (Jan 4, 2011)

Tez3 said:


> I think the first question would be 'what do you have available around you'? It would be a shame if you gave up TKD though but if you couldn't find a place to train that suits you I'd say see if you could find a Wado Ryu place.
> 
> I started Wado quite late in life with no experience, I couldn't kick high, still can't but it doesn't matter. The stances are shorter than TKDs and some other karate styles. It's quite precise and because it's not hugely well known doesn't seem to have been diluted too much. Not one for the kiddies I suspect.


 

I agree.  What's in your area, what's close enough that you reasonably believe you can make it to class on a regular basis, and maybe some folks can offer some thoughts from there...

Hey Manny,  you were training in a kenpo group for a while, have you discontinued that?  If so, may I ask why?


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## dancingalone (Jan 4, 2011)

Manny,

It's not about the style.  You can find karate schools that focus on tournaments and friendly, fun instruction for children after all, even in ryu with a reputation for solid training.

You really just have to find a teacher who has the same alignment in goals that you do and the only way to do that is to actually study at a particular dojo for a significant amount of time, at least measured in months.  You can't just talk to an instructor and ask what his focus is because the chances of getting an absolutely accurate response isn't 100%, even if his intentions are honest.  You see, everyone thinks what they are doing is suited for self-defense - everyone thinks what they are personally doing is the best thing available.

You've been talking about trying karate and aikido.  Well, go ahead and do it.  Pick a school and commit yourself to training there for at least 3 months full-time.  Make it to every class you can.  This is the only way you can tell if the school and instructor is a good fit for yourself.

And if you have a bad experience at one karate school for example, that doesn't mean you won't have the opposite experience at another dojo even of the same style.  It's been said over and over again that the instructor is more important than the style and I absolutely believe that's true.

What didn't you like about the kenpo you were studying?  Kenpo doesn't have an inordinate amount of kicking and the large number of self-defense techs are supposed to serve as case studies for teaching efficient movement in fighting.

We're about to bow in for class but I'll be back online later tonight to reply to anything.  Later, Manny.


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## harlan (Jan 5, 2011)

If it was me, I'd:

1. Take off take off the advanced belt, go back to white, and train TKD in the back row three times a week. Having been 100 lbs overweight, and an older student, I know that just making it to a classroom situation is supportive. It keeps the metabolism from stagnating/getting worse, and the classroom is a good high energy place to be (shared pain, and all that). As a white belt you train for yourself, modifying everything, learning to train smart for your current physical condition.

and 

2. Feed the brain and keep the martial arts interest alive by training in another art. Looking at all the other threads you've posted, you must be in a pretty good position to finally make up your mind (no one else can do that for you). I suggest a weapons art just because it will be easier to not superimpose your prior TKD experience on it - to 'let go- and actually free the mind to learn. 

or

3. Chuck martial arts completely for a year and work solely on your physical well-being.


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## Hudson69 (Jan 5, 2011)

What are you really trying to do?  It sounds like you are wanting to offer, in addition to your current sport TKD, a little more "street" oriented.  

Why don't you try a few things around your area and go from there.  Krav, Kenpo, Boxing, whatever.  If you find something you like you will be learning something new and will be able to offer more to your school.


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## Manny (Jan 5, 2011)

Thank you all, I really apreciate your coments here, that's why I started this tread.

Some time back I talked my sambonim about more self defense classes and even special self defense clases cause I was bored of doing an/bakat chaguis every class for example, however I did not get a good asnwer, latter was the answer or soon very soon. So I started to see around and came to a kenpo karate studio I was there for a year (get my orange belt), then by may 2010 I started with plantar phasitys problems. I trained 4 nights per week, two nights kenpo and the other nights tkd, I was doing very well, inside TKD classe I had the cardio and tkd kicking techs and in kenpo I was learning good new moves and techs.

Because of my foot condition I had to make a desition I could not keep training that way and doctor said to me to keep the workout a minimun to heal, so I focus in my second dan test and droped Kenpo and only practiced TKD two times per week, I did my examination and got my second dan black belt.

Since last july and trying to get better I started to rest and sabonim ofered me to teach two times a week a special class of adultos only (men) and I tought I was OK, so I began with 6 students and only two remained, in this class I teach I don't push myself and my feet tanked me, however I want to keep learning and practicing self defense.

Kenpo is a good MA too, the only thing I dislike is the katas, some moves inside of them are very weird and impractical to me  but anything else it's fine, the atmosphere is light there like in a club of friends so disipline it's not as tenacius like in other dojos/dojangs. 

About other TKD dojangs I know in my city is almost the same, they are kiddie-sport oriented, with so much emphasis in kicking high and very few in street smarts and self defense.

Yes I've been thinking in go back to kenpo and IF possible keep the tkd as a teaching class.

Right nmow I am injured, I hurted my low back on december 30th and doctor wanted me to not do exercise or workout in a 3 weeks minimum, so I have some time to meditate and try to find something i would like to do.

Please keep writting me I really apreciate your toughts.

Manny


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## terryl965 (Jan 5, 2011)

Manny you have tried other Arts and have enjoyed them but for whatever reason you go back to TKD as your base art. So here is my two cents worth, you are overwieghted, you have bad feet and you are just out of shape, for whatever the reason are these things happen. Now on to the bigger question why has this happen and why are you not making it better?  So far I am down 31 pounds and still have another 65 to go, everything hurts after every session, so how do I handle it a bubble bath and some oitment and then back at it another day. My knee are better with the extra pounds off my mind is better for me trying and my self esteem is even better when I am conducting classes. *Stop making excuses and get to training *all you are ever going to do is look for reasons to fail, instead of finding ways to ,ake it work. Even though your school is sport does not mean it has to stay that way you have proven it with a small class and that my friend is better for your soul than looking for other arts. Keep forging a head with your training and remember to modify your workouts to your age and level and your abilities as they are now. God bless and may he continue you on your path of better health and fitness. *Now stop making excuses my friend..*


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## Flying Crane (Jan 5, 2011)

Manny said:


> Kenpo is a good MA too, the only thing I dislike is the katas, some moves inside of them are very weird and impractical to me but anything else it's fine, the atmosphere is light there like in a club of friends so disipline it's not as tenacius like in other dojos/dojangs.


 
as a former kenpo guy myself, I understand your observations about kenpo kata.  I believe there are some kata in kenpo that have some solid lessons to offer, but some of them don't make a lot of sense to me either.  I find other problems with the art as well, but if you liked it, it could still be a viable option for you.  That's just my opinion.

as far as the foot issue goes, have you tried training with shoes?  I mean good shoes, not the light sport TKD or sport MA shoes.  Get a good pair of Nike or New Balance cross traininers, something with good arch support and good cushioning and good lateral support.  I train with shoes all the time and I've never had foot problems.  I think some of these problems can be a result of barefoot training on hard surfaces, especially with lots of jumps and whatnot.


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## dancingalone (Jan 5, 2011)

As a further suggestion, Manny, I vaguely recall that you said you only had 2 karate dojo in your area?  Shotokan and a Shito-ryu school run by your friend.  Certainly you should investigate these two options, but it sounds like you really want a teacher who focuses on a particular mindset you're after, rather than a specific style itself.

If so, why not look for an 'underground' group in your area?  A group can be as small as two:  the teacher and 1 student.  In fact, that's how my own school started.  I didn't set out to run my own dojo.  I had moved away from my sensei and I wanted to continue to practice and I needed a partner for many of the drills in Goju-ryu.  So, I put up a few flyers advertising the opportunity to learn and practice legitimate, traditional Okinawan karate at no charge at my home with me.  I got a lot of kooky people respond to the ad, but I weeded them out until I had two people who also had a serious focus towards learning.  From there we built ourselves up, and today one of those two people is my senior student and he's about to open his own commercial studio.

Put up a few fliers.  Or do you have something online like Craigslist to advertise in in your area?  Just let it be known that you are looking for self-defense focused instruction in a martial art that emphasizes something else than kicking.  You might be surprised at how many 'solo' practitioners are out there who need training partners yet are too 'non-commercial' to attract and retain students.


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## Manny (Jan 5, 2011)

terryl965 said:


> Manny you have tried other Arts and have enjoyed them but for whatever reason you go back to TKD as your base art. So here is my two cents worth, you are overwieghted, you have bad feet and you are just out of shape, for whatever the reason are these things happen. Now on to the bigger question why has this happen and why are you not making it better? So far I am down 31 pounds and still have another 65 to go, everything hurts after every session, so how do I handle it a bubble bath and some oitment and then back at it another day. My knee are better with the extra pounds off my mind is better for me trying and my self esteem is even better when I am conducting classes. *Stop making excuses and get to training *all you are ever going to do is look for reasons to fail, instead of finding ways to ,ake it work. Even though your school is sport does not mean it has to stay that way you have proven it with a small class and that my friend is better for your soul than looking for other arts. Keep forging a head with your training and remember to modify your workouts to your age and level and your abilities as they are now. God bless and may he continue you on your path of better health and fitness. *Now stop making excuses my friend..*


 
Thank you Teery, yes I have tried a little aikido, a little shotokan and one full year of kenpo karate but not leaving TKD at all cause as you said, TKD was were I formed myself, the cultural thing, the vocabulary thing, the mind set thing, etc,etc. I have never refused TKD becuase it's my main MA. TKD has given so much besides the martial art or should I say martial sport.

I want to learn new things or ne way of doing the things because I want to enrich myself and my martial arts curriculum, for example, I don't see any logic to trow a punch or kick to the air, instead I like to put that punch or kick were it belongs, in the mid section for example with enough force to feel the tech but not knock out or hurt my partner, I love to feel the aplication of the tech not just kick the palchaguis for example.

About the excuses, you are right in certain point. I have had some improvement this december 31th family came for hollidays, some of them have no seen me since one or two years and they told me I look not as fat as I was one or two years ago, I believe I am burning fat more than lose dramatically weigth, my pants are very loose now and had to put some notches to my belt, yes it's not enough I need to so memething else, I having cutting my food intake and this has helped me too.

My aches??? well maybe they will not completly go..... till I went down to maybe to 200 or 210 lbs so I will keep doing something to achieve this.

I will se about to returning kenpo and see if I can keep it plus the tkd classes.

Dancingalone, you are right in my city karate dojos (japanese or okinawan) are very few, I have shotokan (2 dojos) I tried one several years ago and two Okinawan Karate Do Franchises (argualliny Shito-Ryu) and that's all.

Maybe as Terry wrote I just need take waht it takes and stick around with my TKD and in some way the class I give will be self defense oriented and try to be happy with it.

Manny


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## Flying Crane (Jan 5, 2011)

Manny said:


> for example, I don't see any logic to trow a punch or kick to the air, instead I like to put that punch or kick were it belongs, in the mid section for example with enough force to feel the tech but not knock out or hurt my partner, I love to feel the aplication of the tech not just kick the palchaguis for example.
> 
> Manny


 
Manny,

It sounds to me like some of your complaints are things that you could fix yourself.  for example, in what you say above, the easy solution is to purchase a good heavy bag, and then use that to develop the power in your strikes.  This may not happen in class, but you can do it on your own.  Be responsible for your own training and take it where you want to go with it.


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