# Defense Against The Hairgrab



## MJS (Jan 28, 2007)

While a hairgrab may not be as common an attack for a male, many females often have long hair.  That being said, its very possible that during an assault, their hair will be grabbed.

I'm interested in hearing how you teach your students to defend this type of attack.

Mike


----------



## Xue Sheng (Jan 28, 2007)

I dont have students right now and there are multiple ways to grab someones hair but if it is a grab from the front. 

Basically the attacker is standing facing you and just reaches up and grabs the hair on top of your head. Reach up and grab his hand (I suggest using both hands if possible), in front of his wrist, and push his hand down against your head. Then bend forward at the waist, he will let go, and then you can turn that into a wristlock as you stand up. 

It is also advisable to step back with the leg of your choice to get a better and more stable stance and allow you to bend lower as well as pull the attacker down, forward and off balance.


----------



## shesulsa (Jan 28, 2007)

Xue Sheng said:


> I dont have students right now and there are multiple ways to grab someones hair but if it is a grab from the front.
> 
> Basically the attacker is standing facing you and just reaches up and grabs the hair on top of your head. Reach up and grab his hand (I suggest using both hands if possible), in front of his wrist, and push his hand down against your head. Then bend forward at the waist, he will let go, and then you can turn that into a wristlock as you stand up.
> 
> It is also advisable to step back with the leg of your choice to get a better and more stable stance and allow you to bend lower as well as pull the attacker down, forward and off balance.


Ditto most of that ...

Trapping the hand to the head gives you control of the attacker's hand and relieves the pull on the scalp.  I wouldn't recommend bending at the waist too much because your balance can be compromised, rather bend at the knees and if face-to-face stepping in before pivoting for the torque and lock rather than out.


----------



## Blindside (Jan 28, 2007)

So if you are two hands on one while trying to get this wristlock, what is the attacker doing with the other hand?  And from the description all that attacker has to do to relieve pressure on the wrist is to drop his elbow, bringing his arm into a mechanically strong position.  

As a male (particularly as a male who used to have very long hair), I envision the hair grab to immediately be followed by the other hand punching to the side of the face.  So I drive forward with my legs as the person pulls in, use the same side hand to help collapse the elbow and give me some control over thier arm (so if they grab with their left, you control with your right), and use the left hand to drive to something vital (throat/eye/nose/whatever) and simultaneously shielding your face with the upper portion of your arm (turtling).  If your forward push breaks their posture, you usually have a good knee to the groin available.

Lamont


----------



## Xue Sheng (Jan 28, 2007)

shesulsa said:


> Ditto most of that ...
> 
> Trapping the hand to the head gives you control of the attacker's hand and relieves the pull on the scalp. I wouldn't recommend bending at the waist too much because your balance can be compromised, rather bend at the knees and if face-to-face stepping in before pivoting for the torque and lock rather than out.



That is why I added step back with the leg of your choice, although it is not always necessary. Away from pulls the attacker down and forward. Stepping into would not work for this application; its a Chinese Qinna thing, stepping in different directions dose different things. Nor is there any turning of the body for the application I posted. 

And for this application bending at the knees will not torque the attackers wrist properly for them to feel pain and let go and thereby giving you multiple other options for what you want to do next. Be that lock, take down and step on them or take them down let go and run away. If you bend at the knees it will not work. 

I am not saying what you suggest would not work, I am certain that it would. And I am not being argumentative but understand there are multiple ways to defend against a hair grab, this is just one of them. And different styles approach it differently.


----------



## Xue Sheng (Jan 28, 2007)

Blindside said:


> So if you are two hands on one while trying to get this wristlock, what is the attacker doing with the other hand? And from the description all that attacker has to do to relieve pressure on the wrist is to drop his elbow, bringing his arm into a mechanically strong position.
> 
> As a male (particularly as a male who used to have very long hair), I envision the hair grab to immediately be followed by the other hand punching to the side of the face. So I drive forward with my legs as the person pulls in, use the same side hand to help collapse the elbow and give me some control over thier arm (so if they grab with their left, you control with your right), and use the left hand to drive to something vital (throat/eye/nose/whatever) and simultaneously shielding your face with the upper portion of your arm (turtling). If your forward push breaks their posture, you usually have a good knee to the groin available.
> 
> Lamont


 
This is exactly why I was extremely hesitant to post anything at all.

If you post anything someone else can and will find flaws with it because not all applications work in all situations.

If you use the applications I posted it is done actually quite fast. They grab you respond. It does not rule out other options and counters.

OK now I'm about to go off topic and rant a bit too.

This is also why I have a hard time with any training that is a class called "self defense for woman" or "how not to be a victim" or any other names you can come up with that are in a 1 to 3 hour of 1 to 2 day seminar format. 

I have come across several teachers of these classes over the years and students of these classes over the years and every single time *without fail* when they wanted to demonstrate on me what they teach or what they learn it was always been 1 or both of the following responses

1) No you can't use your left

2) Your not suppose to relax

There are WAY to many variables in the real world for such classes and in my opinion they tend to, for the most part, give people a false sense of security. They would be better off being taught how to be aware of your surroundings or VERY simple things such as eye gouges, groin kicks, step on the attackers foot, kick them in the knee, Not locks and complicated moves.


----------



## Blindside (Jan 28, 2007)

Xue Sheng said:


> This is exactly why I was extremely hesitant to post anything at all.
> 
> If you post anything someone else can and will find flaws with it because not all applications work in all situations.
> 
> If you use the applications I posted it is done actually quite fast. They grab you respond. It does not rule out other options and counters.


 
It isn't about "finding flaws" its about starting discussion.  Your technique initiates earlier than mine (hand does not have a fistful of hair, arm is not retracting yet), mine assumes that the hair has actually been grabbed and the person is then following up with something else.  I posted my technique because it does not require as good timing and can be intiated from a surprised state (ex. grab came from rear).  The point is to talk about why we do such things, and what are the counters.  

And I agree with you one most short-term self defense classes, joint locks are advanced, not intro material.


----------



## shesulsa (Jan 28, 2007)

Xue Sheng said:


> This is exactly why I was extremely hesitant to post anything at all.
> 
> If you post anything someone else can and will find flaws with it because not all applications work in all situations.
> 
> ...


Good post and I agree.  

Please understand that my posted alteration to the technique *I think you described* was in the spirit of variables and approaches ... which way you step is going to set the opponent up for a certain approach.

On the self-defense seminar and joint locks, I completely agree.  I tried teaching some - and still do teach one or two - but not everyone gets it to the extent that it can be an automatic response, part and parcel of the release/defense.  It's so hard to express in words what I'm talking about, but I think we agree more than disagree here. :asian:


----------



## shesulsa (Jan 28, 2007)

Blindside said:


> So if you are two hands on one while trying to get this wristlock, what is the attacker doing with the other hand?  And from the description all that attacker has to do to relieve pressure on the wrist is to drop his elbow, bringing his arm into a mechanically strong position.
> 
> As a male (particularly as a male who used to have very long hair), I envision the hair grab to immediately be followed by the other hand punching to the side of the face.  So I drive forward with my legs as the person pulls in, use the same side hand to help collapse the elbow and give me some control over thier arm (so if they grab with their left, you control with your right), and use the left hand to drive to something vital (throat/eye/nose/whatever) and simultaneously shielding your face with the upper portion of your arm (turtling).  If your forward push breaks their posture, you usually have a good knee to the groin available.
> 
> Lamont



We have many "techniques" for defense against a hairgrab and they are meant for variables.  There are not necessarily two hands on the grabbing hand - one hand should be free to counter the coming attack.


----------



## Mark L (Jan 28, 2007)

We practice multiple techniques also, and we always begin by grabbing the hand at the wrist to take the pressure off of the scalp.  Our most basic technique has us rotate in with a hard knife hand strike straight down on the bicep to 'shock' the arm and release the grab, chambering the strike also serves as a check against the other hand attacking.

Xue Sheng, my experience is that posting any technique will inevitably result in debate, sometimes informative, sometimes petty.  That's fine, I know what I do works and I'm fine with talking about it.


----------



## jks9199 (Jan 28, 2007)

Xue Sheng said:


> This is exactly why I was extremely hesitant to post anything at all.
> 
> If you post anything someone else can and will find flaws with it because not all applications work in all situations.



It's also very difficult to describe things in words that are clear enough for someone to really understand what you're doing.  For example, you send "bend forward" and someone could read that as something like "bend way forward at the waist" when you may have simple meant lean forward slightly.  




> OK now I'm about to go off topic and rant a bit too.
> 
> This is also why I have a hard time with any training that is a class called "self defense for woman" or "how not to be a victim" or any other names you can come up with that are in a 1 to 3 hour of 1 to 2 day seminar format.
> 
> ...



You can't teach much in a few hours -- but you can teach awareness.  Short format classes like that should concentrate more on recognizing dangers and avoiding them, and probably throw a simple move or two in.  Real techniques take repeated exposure and practice, probably over several days or weeks.  When I teach self-defense classes, everything is built from the same principles; the circle that is used to break a grab is also the basis of the blocking technique and so on...  Everything reinforces everything else.  And I stress awareness, attitude, and "how not to look like a victim" in each session, as well -- because that's more important than any physical skills that they may well forget next week.

I'll never forget one "self-defense" technique I saw taught years ago.  It was beautiful, and probably right out of a police defensive tactics manual cleaned up and refined with "real" martial arts.  It had something like 13 or 14 steps, and ended with the attacker in a perfect armbar.  OK...  But who's gonna remember 13 or 14 steps after a one day class?  And, if they do, what are they gonna do with this guy now that he's in an armbar?  I'm a cop; I'll cuff him!  Self defense isn't about cuffing; it's about dealing with an attack and getting away...  (OK... My rant's over now!)


----------



## Xue Sheng (Jan 28, 2007)

Blindside said:


> It isn't about "finding flaws" its about starting discussion. Your technique initiates earlier than mine (hand does not have a fistful of hair, arm is not retracting yet), mine assumes that the hair has actually been grabbed and the person is then following up with something else. I posted my technique because it does not require as good timing and can be intiated from a surprised state (ex. grab came from rear). The point is to talk about why we do such things, and what are the counters.
> 
> And I agree with you one most short-term self defense classes, joint locks are advanced, not intro material.


 
I am not critiquing what you said to do, although I felt I was being critiqued sorry if I miss understood. 

There are multiple defenses against just about everything, and I am basing this on my Qinna training so I cannot speak for any other style or defense. A wrist grab defense can have the same initial application but yet depending on the force being applied you step forward or backward.

Same with a hair grab, it all depends on from where they grab your hair from and how close they are when they grab it the amount of force applied, etc. Grab from behind if there close kick them in the knee hard or if they pull follow the exact direction of the pull IF that is what the situation requires. There are always counters and counters for counters there is no 1 answer to this question that covers all situations and scenarios.

And as a note in mine the hair has been grabbed.

And you are not the only male that use to have long hair, I may be old but I assure you it was not always the case.

Also as previously stated by jks9199 it is hard to describe things verbally and generally it takes WAY to much typing. 


But in response to others that have posted
I did not realize this was a debate based on the initial post but if it is I apologize for the intrusion, could also be Iam just tired, old, beat up (today) and cranky and with that I am out.


----------



## Steel Tiger (Jan 28, 2007)

Xue Sheng said:


> I dont have students right now and there are multiple ways to grab someones hair but if it is a grab from the front.
> 
> Basically the attacker is standing facing you and just reaches up and grabs the hair on top of your head. Reach up and grab his hand (I suggest using both hands if possible), in front of his wrist, and push his hand down against your head. Then bend forward at the waist, he will let go, and then you can turn that into a wristlock as you stand up.
> 
> It is also advisable to step back with the leg of your choice to get a better and more stable stance and allow you to bend lower as well as pull the attacker down, forward and off balance.


 

This is a technique I know by the name of Child Worships the Buddha.  It has been suggested that it does not involve the attacker having a handful of hair, but that doesn't really matter.  The pressure placed on the hand causes it to open up which allows for the secondary effect of a minor wrist lock.

Generally speaking qinna techniques like this are not used in isolation but are immediately followed by another technique, in this case I would use one called Placing Incense At the Alter which involves an outward twist of the wrist resulting in either a throw or a broken wrist.

It true, however, that you have to be aware of the assailants other hand throughout.  Don't want a punch in the head, afterall.


----------



## Xue Sheng (Jan 28, 2007)

Steel Tiger said:


> This is a technique I know by the name of Child Worships the Buddha. It has been suggested that it does not involve the attacker having a handful of hair, but that doesn't really matter. The pressure placed on the hand causes it to open up which allows for the secondary effect of a minor wrist lock.
> 
> Generally speaking qinna techniques like this are not used in isolation but are immediately followed by another technique, in this case I would use one called Placing Incense At the Alter which involves an outward twist of the wrist resulting in either a throw or a broken wrist.
> 
> It true, however, that you have to be aware of the assailants other hand throughout. Don't want a punch in the head, afterall.


 
Agreed


----------



## Brian R. VanCise (Jan 28, 2007)

Lot's and lot's of different opportunities present themself when your hair is grabbed.  One method that is commonly taught is to relieve the pain by applying pressure with one of your hands over the top of their hand.  After that the techniques wether striking, trapping, joint manipulations or moving into grappling are pretty enormous.

One of the things I like to do is Trap with one hand and apply pressure to take away their ability to apply enormous pain.  My off hand is then concentrating on closing and negating their off hand (strike,trap, etc) and my legs will then be moving and focused on positioning myself for a leg destruction technique on one of the opponents legs. (leg lock with pressure to blow out their knee)  This works very nicely in my experience and is a real surprise to someone not expecting it.  However this is just one option.


----------



## charyuop (Jan 29, 2007)

XS, just a question. I tried to figure out your technique, more that the other hand I was wondering if you shouldn't worry more about feet. Bending down will bring you face lower thus good target for a kick in the face...

I would see maybe less dangerous grabbing the wrist and stepping on the side of the arm grabbing you thus leaving the arm wider and from there either kick the external part of the knee or leaning forward a little and placin the other hand on his elbow go for an arm bar (ikkyo for who does Aikido). But of course it is just a theory that popped in my head, a thing that I might try in that situation without having never practiced this problem.


----------



## INDYFIGHTER (Jan 29, 2007)

Shave your head.:uhyeah:


----------



## MJS (Jan 29, 2007)

Great replies!  Sorry I didn't comment sooner.  I'm in agreement with pinning the hands.  This should take away some of the pressure.  I don't advocate bending over too far, for the reasons stated.  Pinning their hand properly should make the attacker bend slightly forward.  

I've seen some techniques transition to a joint lock, which is also an option.  Someone mentioned what the attacker is doing with his other hand.  This is of course a good point, because I think many times, during defenses we forget about the free limbs.  However, in this case, I'd think that unless the attacker is targetting the body, the head is pretty much covered by your own arms and elbows.

Mike


----------



## MJS (Jan 29, 2007)

Something I forgot to add.  Take into consideration what the person is doing once he grabs.  Chances are, hes not going to just stand there holding your hair, but instead, start to manipulate your head.

Mike


----------



## Xue Sheng (Jan 29, 2007)

charyuop said:


> XS, just a question. I tried to figure out your technique, more that the other hand I was wondering if you shouldn't worry more about feet. Bending down will bring you face lower thus good target for a kick in the face...
> 
> I would see maybe less dangerous grabbing the wrist and stepping on the side of the arm grabbing you thus leaving the arm wider and from there either kick the external part of the knee or leaning forward a little and placin the other hand on his elbow go for an arm bar (ikkyo for who does Aikido). But of course it is just a theory that popped in my head, a thing that I might try in that situation without having never practiced this problem.


 
Not that I am into quoting myself but it saves me typing this again



> There are multiple defenses against just about everything, and I am basing this on my Qinna training so I cannot speak for any other style or defense. A wrist grab defense can have the same initial application but yet depending on the force being applied you step forward or backward.
> 
> Same with a hair grab, it all depends on from where they grab your hair from and how close they are when they grab it the amount of force applied, etc. Grab from behind if there close kick them in the knee hard or if they pull follow the exact direction of the pull IF that is what the situation requires. There are always counters and counters for counters there is no 1 answer to this question that covers all situations and scenarios.



I do not have the time to go into great detail which would amount to a whole lot of typing on my part, when to be honest I do not feel the need to defend the application. And regardless of what I say there will always be someone that has a better way to do it and maybe they do, I am not arguing for the best way to defend against a hair grab. The original post asked for ways to defend against a hair grab and I posted one. If you like feel free to post another I am not here in this post to critique anything anyone has said, I do not train aikido (which is very circular,) or judo or multiple other styles. I can only speak form the styles I have been trained in and the applications in those styles

Let&#8217;s just leave it at if you don't like the application don't use it, :asian: 

Bye now

To anyone that read this post before I edited it, my apologies as previously stated I am just being old and grumpy.


----------



## charyuop (Jan 29, 2007)

XS, I didn't mean to criticize and sorry if it sounded like it was, mine was a pure question. Everyone mentioned the free hand and I was wondering the chances of getting kicked in the face with your technique....pure curiosity.


----------



## Steel Tiger (Jan 29, 2007)

charyuop said:


> XS, just a question. I tried to figure out your technique, more that the other hand I was wondering if you shouldn't worry more about feet. Bending down will bring you face lower thus good target for a kick in the face...
> 
> I would see maybe less dangerous grabbing the wrist and stepping on the side of the arm grabbing you thus leaving the arm wider and from there either kick the external part of the knee or leaning forward a little and placin the other hand on his elbow go for an arm bar (ikkyo for who does Aikido). But of course it is just a theory that popped in my head, a thing that I might try in that situation without having never practiced this problem.


 
The point of lowering yourself in this technique is actually to unbalance your assailant.  As you drop your weight move back away from the attacker which has two effects.  Firstly it enacts a minor  wrist lock using their head as a pivot (a little pain to distract them) and pulls them forward and off balance now that they are distracted.  They are now in an excellent position for a follow up technique.  

This is pure qinna and thus never works in isolation.


----------



## Infinite (Jan 29, 2007)

Ok two techniques I was taught,

The inside roll,

Pin hand to head via wrist grab. Then rotate so the attackers arm moves to the outside.

Attacker comes from front right hand grabs hair. Pin hand with right hand take half a step back as you rotate to the right. He is off balance and you now proceed to send a dizzying array of elbows and strikes to his now exposed centerline.

Roll to ground,

The same principal as before but that half of step back turns into a full step with more twisting so that what you end up with is him going down under you. The idea here as it was presented in a seminar (never trained this move) was that you could then move to a joint lock.


Both techniques are supposed to be pretty violent on that half or full step. The instructor said to envision pulling them so hard they end up on their primary foot with there secondary foot looking for a new purchase.


----------



## Shotgun Buddha (Jan 30, 2007)

Forget the techniques. No matter what individual techniques we post we'll all just find holes in them because they're isolated. So lets figure out instead, whats the nature of the attack and what principles should be used to deal with it?
Im working on two hour sleep so I'll toss my own contribution after I get some rest.


----------



## MJS (Jan 30, 2007)

Shotgun Buddha said:


> Forget the techniques. No matter what individual techniques we post we'll all just find holes in them because they're isolated. So lets figure out instead, whats the nature of the attack and what principles should be used to deal with it?
> Im working on two hour sleep so I'll toss my own contribution after I get some rest.


 
I agree.  This is an online discussion forum folks.  Therefore, we are only able to read, so misunderstandings are going to happen when discussing techs. because we don't have a visual.  That may give us the impression that there is a hole.  

In any case, talking about the nature of the attack, as you suggested sounds like a good plan!   We can also discuss the grab applied from the side as well as behind.

Get some rest and I look forward to reading more! 

Mike


----------



## Shotgun Buddha (Jan 30, 2007)

MJS said:


> I agree. This is an online discussion forum folks. Therefore, we are only able to read, so misunderstandings are going to happen when discussing techs. because we don't have a visual. That may give us the impression that there is a hole.
> 
> In any case, talking about the nature of the attack, as you suggested sounds like a good plan!  We can also discuss the grab applied from the side as well as behind.
> 
> ...


 
Ok, time for the dirtiest word in martial arts, context.
First off who will likely be attacked this way
- Most likely female
Who is likely to attack this way
- A larger and very aggressive male
Nature of the attack
- Serious assault, possible rape as the objective. Any attack where they grab the hair is likely to a violent one. Assume the grab will be followed either by a blow, or a sharp jerking upwards of the head.
-Someone willing to attack a woman like this will most likely be highly vicious.

So bearing in mind, we're not talking about what would you do if someone grabbed your hair.
We're figuring out what would a smaller, and no offence intended, weaker, woman do against a larger, stronger, highly vicious opponent intent on doing serious harm, when he grabs her by the hair.
So people, suggestions?


----------



## Blindside (Jan 30, 2007)

Shotgun Buddha said:


> Ok,So bearing in mind, we're not talking about what would you do if someone grabbed your hair.
> We're figuring out what would a smaller, and no offence intended, weaker, woman do against a larger, stronger, highly vicious opponent intent on doing serious harm, when he grabs her by the hair.
> So people, suggestions?


 
Is the "draw knife and poke into large nasty person multiple times until it stops moving" a viable suggestion?

Lamont


----------



## Kenpobuff (Feb 1, 2007)

I just taught a self "awareness" class.  Notice I didn't call it a self-defense class.  It was to a group of 4H teens at the local school.  I covered awareness items and focused on how to avoid situations and vulnerable areas where they live.  In the two hours I had it was not a time to teach a number of techniques they would never remember.  On the defense side however, I did have them perform and practice some practical hold releases from wrist grabs to chokes.  The intent was to show them how to get out of the grasp and then create the distance necessary to escape the situation, not to stand there and do battle.

That being said, back to the initial question about a hair grab.  There are a lot of holes to be shot in this technique but it is one that our system teaches.

Cover the opponent's grab with your same hand to relieve pressure.  This cover hold also keeps your arm in a position to block any incoming strike from their free hand.  Step back to extend the grabbing arm and puts you in a defense stance with your side toward them.  With your free hand use a single knuckle strike to the nerve under their extended arm (not good if your arm is alot shorter than theirs) to get them to relax their grip.  Move the grabbing hand off your hair as it relaxes and follow up with whatever strikes or kicks are available to the nearest targets.

I like what was mentioned about bending over to present a wrist lock.  I think I will play with that one a bit.


----------



## morph4me (Feb 1, 2007)

Blindside said:


> Is the "draw knife and poke into large nasty person multiple times until it stops moving" a viable suggestion?
> 
> Lamont


 

I'm guessing that would depend on your definition of viable in this particular situation, but it would be effective


----------



## tradrockrat (Feb 1, 2007)

there are just too many variables to try to explain everything that I (think I) know to do.

But philosophically, my reponses tend towards trapping the hand and engaging the opponent in close - stepping into the "pulling" of the hair.  from there I like the idea of inflicting a substantial amount of pain on the bad guy.

one example:

guy grabs my hair from the front (slightly off to the side actually) with his right hand.  I trapped his right with my right because it offered my head protection from both the pull and the incoming left fist.  As he pulled his arm in towards him I stepped in with it throwing a left "bull" hook which nailed him in the temple.  He let go of my hair, but I didn't let go of his hand.  after that it was a simple restraint (with a not so nice slam into the wall) and wrist lock to get him out of the club.

(BTW -  I should say that when I was young and invincible I was a bouncer with hair down to the middle of my back - I've been in this situation more than once.


----------



## tradrockrat (Feb 1, 2007)

Shotgun Buddha said:


> So bearing in mind, we're not talking about what would you do if someone grabbed your hair.
> We're figuring out what would a smaller, and no offence intended, weaker, woman do against a larger, stronger, highly vicious opponent intent on doing serious harm, when he grabs her by the hair.
> So people, suggestions?


 

oops... shoulda read this first... <<<sheepish grin>>>>


----------



## shesulsa (Feb 1, 2007)

Blindside said:


> Is the "draw knife and poke into large nasty person multiple times until it stops moving" a viable suggestion?
> 
> Lamont



The Nurse Jekkyl in me says:  only if you perceive a fatal thread and you feel you have no other alternative.

The Ms. Hyde in me says:  Oh, I like you. :EG:


----------



## searcher (Feb 1, 2007)

Reminds me of a No Fear quote I heard a few years ago: 

Do not greet death with open arms.   Punch him in the throat repeatedly as he drags you away kicking and screaming.


----------



## terryl965 (Feb 1, 2007)

Has anybody said shave there head competely


----------



## bluemtn (Feb 1, 2007)

As a matter of fact, Terry:




INDYFIGHTER said:


> Shave your head.:uhyeah:


 
Yes!


----------



## terryl965 (Feb 1, 2007)

tkdgirl said:


> As a matter of fact, Terry:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

well great minds think a like


----------



## Rich Parsons (Feb 1, 2007)

MJS said:


> While a hairgrab may not be as common an attack for a male, many females often have long hair. That being said, its very possible that during an assault, their hair will be grabbed.
> 
> I'm interested in hearing how you teach your students to defend this type of attack.
> 
> Mike



I know lots of discussion so far.

If the person has made the mistakes to be in a situation where they were not aware to keep distance and or were totally surprised and or were the target then we can ignore all the awareness techniques and keeping distance. 

The person has been grabbed. Usually when such a grab occurs there is a jerk. this jerk gets the person of balance and this allows the attacker to then get an adavantage or better advantage in either striking or subdueing depending upon the goal of the attacker. 

There are multiple types of grabs to the hair/head. There is the grabbing the pony tail or long hair that is available.

There is the hand full of hair where the fingers are weaved into the hair. I personally like this one being the attacker as it gives lots of control and just pulling out is much harder. You have bascially weaved your fingers into their hair. 

There is the grabbing of the top of the skull. 

There is the grabbing of the side of the skull. I like this one as well the fingers can weave behing the skull and into the hair as well. 

(* Yes I have said I like on a couple of these techniques. Not becuase I like to control women or abuse them, I use these techniques when desired against the opponent be they male or female. *) 

So now to address these grabs. As many have stated here there are lots of variations depending upon situations and available techniques. 

Personally I like the the awareness teachniques. 

I think the peson should get a good base and then neutralize the grab with some form of pin and the with their legs and hands attack and cause pain. With the pain, this allows one to then try to free themselves from the grab and being entangled. I would also say draw attention by yelling. Most people ignore yells for Help as they do not want to get involved with a domestic. Use "Stranger" or "FIRE".  These are words that some people will respond to either by calling 911 or by coming to see what is happening. Also yell things like: "I do not want to go with you" or "I do not want to fight. Stop hurting me!"  When the witnesses are questioned later they will hopefully repeat what you have said. So, if you have accidentally hurt the attacker with a finger gouge to some place soft you will have this in place for additional defense.


----------



## MJS (Feb 1, 2007)

terryl965 said:


> Has anybody said shave there head competely


 
Well, mine isn't totally bald, but then again, its shaved so short it may as well be.


----------



## still learning (Feb 1, 2007)

Hello, More holes here too?   Ok if they grab the top of the head (hair)...put both your hands on his and bend forward for a wrist lock(must be done fast)..expect knees and punches to follow...be ready for a fight!

for those with very long hair...if can twist yourself into a spin and lock his fingers in your hair (seen this in wwf), not sure if this is wise to do..?

Keep in mind he has one hand on you...you will have two hands and two feet to strike back with...such as shin kicks (need shoes)...throat strikes..eye pokes...and so on...be created (skills you learn in class).

No two hair grabs will be the same..so each defense may vary..just like punches to the face...many variables..

Hair grabs ...good idea to teach students some possible defenses!   Thanks for sharing everyone!  ........Aloha

PS: What if they grab the hair on the chest?  ..or the back... UM?


----------



## Ceicei (Feb 1, 2007)

First time I got to read through this thread.  Interesting.

I recall somewhere, some time ago, a person posted her black belt thesis (I believe this was on KenpoNet forum, but not sure) about a custom kata she made all based on hairgrab escapes.  She had long hair and it kept constantly being grabbed during training by her partners.  She decided to turn this problem to an advantage while thinking about a possible thesis topic, then followed through and developed this kata.  I thought her thesis very fascinating.  I'll have to see if I can dig it up and ask her for permission to share some ideas from it with this thread.  Of course, it is from a Kenpo point of view, but no less applicable to other styles.

- Ceicei


----------



## Last Fearner (Feb 2, 2007)

*I Agree !*​ 
I agree - There are many different effective defenses against a hair grab.
I agree - It is difficult to articulate a specific defense just in words here.
I agree - A very effective initial response is to control the attacker's hand.
I agree - Your response might vary depending on a front, side or rear grab.
I agree - Your attacker will probably be pulling you down or jerking you around.
I agree - You should remain aware of your opponent's follow up strikes.

Now, I will also comment that being aware, and avoiding the grab is primary, but the secondary phase is to prevent yourself from being pulled off balance. In some cases, without even applying the typical first response of grabbing the attacker's hand, a rapid strike can end the assault. At the moment the grab is felt, a hand strike to a vital area (I'm not going to be specific here) or a kick to a knee joint can end it quick.

Proceeding to the grappling phase, it has been mentioned that grabbing the opponent's hand or wrist with both hands might make you vulnerable to a second attack, but this is where you use the bent arms to encompass your head. Be quick, get a good grip, and place your opponent on the defense by drawing them off balance, and using pressure locks. Using one hand on your opponent's attack allows your other hand to defend as well as strike. When using both hands, you can still release one if blocking becomes necessary, but a quick wrist lock will prevent a strike.

It has also been mentioned that bending over is risky, but can be done if it is in conjunction with an effective wrist lock. You certainly should not bend over far without having your opponent under control, and you should always maintain your balance. Bending is usually to apply pressure on the opponent's wrist, and is done just enough to bring them down in a painful control.

Consider this example. Face your partner in class, and shake hands. Now, try to bring your partner to the ground using just your hands. You can change grips or use both hands, but no strikes, and only grab the wrists, hands, and fingers. If this becomes a "tug-of-war" then you might need work on pressure points and joint locks. If you can bring your partner to the ground within a second or two, without much movement or struggle, then apply that logic to the hair grab.

Grabbing my attacker's hand and wrist, I will apply pressure to his wrist so rapidly that if he were in mid-punch to my face with his free hand, he would stop and drop to his knees from the sheer pain. Some hair grabs will allow for more options of bending fingers back. The pain will cause them to release their grip, or break the finger, and move to the next one.

Here's one option that has not yet been discussed, and you might not have considered this yet. After the attacker grabs your hair, reach around their torso with both arms, and hug them close to you. Then, give them a big, wet, sloppy kiss! :ladysman: This will stun them so much that you will be able to do anything in the next few seconds! If kissing them is out of the question, try biting off the tip of their nose, or their ear lobe and spitting it back in their face. I believe this move is called the "Tyson!" lol :lol2:

Shaving the head was mentioned, but if you don't want to do that, how about using some really greasy hair gel so the opponent's hand just slips right off! Or - use some of that stiff hair gel so they cut their hand on your spiked hair.

I have never liked having someone pull my hair, so I usually just go off on them with everything I have!

"I pity the fool who grabs my hair!!!" lol

verkill: 

CM D.J. Eisenhart


----------



## kidswarrior (Feb 6, 2007)

Many good ideas, and I don't want to attempt to improve on the considerable group wisdom. I might only add something Carl Cestari said that sticks in my mind: the usual grab (to a nonvital area) is not the actual attack; it's the setup for the attack. *Caveat*: if I don't respond quickly with a stopping move of my own, it won't matter!

So Cestari might say, the critical thing is not to counter the grab but to deliver a devastating move of my own. I don't teach this to my beginner/intermediate students, but advanced students can achieve this.


----------



## still learning (Feb 7, 2007)

kidswarrior said:


> Many good ideas, and I don't want to attempt to improve on the considerable group wisdom. I might only add something Carl Cestari said that sticks in my mind: the usual grab (to a nonvital area) is not the actual attack; it's the setup for the attack. *Caveat*: if I don't respond quickly with a stopping move of my own, it won't matter!
> 
> So Cestari might say, the critical thing is not to counter the grab but to deliver a devastating move of my own. I don't teach this to my beginner/intermediate students, but advanced students can achieve this.


 

Hello, Good point here!  Grabbing the hair maybe use to off balance you, set you up for a face/knee strike.  Keep you from moving away...for additional punishment.  Thank-you for that informtion!   ......Aloha

PS: Those with oily hair (recommend syntectic oil for the hair)...will be harder to hold on.  Try Mobil One oil 5w40w....


----------



## shesulsa (Feb 7, 2007)

kidswarrior said:


> Many good ideas, and I don't want to attempt to improve on the considerable group wisdom. I might only add something Carl Cestari said that sticks in my mind: the usual grab (to a nonvital area) is not the actual attack; it's the setup for the attack. *Caveat*: if I don't respond quickly with a stopping move of my own, it won't matter!
> 
> So Cestari might say, the critical thing is not to counter the grab but to deliver a devastating move of my own. I don't teach this to my beginner/intermediate students, but advanced students can achieve this.


You make a good point and I'd like to point out that where they grab your hair makes the difference as to how much control over your head they'll really have.  Grabbing the top front won't do much, grabbing on the crown won't do much ... but grabbing a fistful on the side of the head might - especially if they weave the fingers in.  THAT's a grab for control.

So stay in control of your head, mostly.  "Where the head goes, the body follows"  - Doug Hall, RIP.


----------



## kidswarrior (Feb 8, 2007)

shesulsa said:


> ...grabbing a fistful on the side of the head might - especially if they weave the fingers in. THAT's a grab for control.
> 
> "Where the head goes, the body follows" - Doug Hall, RIP.


 
Yes, good point. I'd forgotten this adage. Must have been a 'senior moment' :boing2:


----------



## kidswarrior (Feb 8, 2007)

still learning said:


> Hello, Good point here!
> Thank-you for that informtion! ......Aloha


 
Glad to be able to contribute.  



> PS: Those with oily hair (recommend syntectic oil for the hair)...will be harder to hold on. Try Mobil One oil 5w40w....


 
But isn't that expensive stuff? :lol:


----------



## shesulsa (Feb 8, 2007)

still learning said:


> PS: Those with oily hair (recommend syntectic oil for the hair)...will be harder to hold on.  Try Mobil One oil 5w40w....


Ewwwww....


----------



## Kwiter (Feb 10, 2007)

Drat! I was going to give the ultimate defense against the hairgrab, a Crewcut ;-)

Crewcut on a woman , naaaaah!


----------



## CuongNhuka (Feb 10, 2007)

Grabb there hand, and this is were it diverts. If you have to turn to punch, kick to the inner knee. Then (after the knee breaks, because it will), run. If they're facing you, grabb there hand(s) and blast them in the ribs as hard as possible. Have the hand holding his'her handmove in the direction opposite the bend of the elbow. Make a simulationous forearm strike to his/her opponents elbow. This will break it. Turn and run. There you go. 
If they're mounting you, do the same, but then after you break they're arm, punch them in face, push them off and run. If pinned against a wall, do the approitate, push off the wall to create space, and run. 
Any other combinations, you'll have to come with on your own. If you're wondering about why I came up with this, the pople who might want to beat me up don't like to play fair.


----------



## kidswarrior (Feb 11, 2007)

Have been following and thinking about this post since it began. Have both learned and tried to contribute. It occurs to me after reading the collective experience/wisdom of all contributors that actually there are at least four 'hair grabs', depending on where the attacker grabs: the front, the top, the back, or the side. 

I think our thread has shown that defenses would vary widely depending on which of the four was used. I'd like to see others' ideas on different responses based on type of hair grab. Maybe the great start we've made would be even more informative? (and I learn a lot by reading all of your experiences/training & techniques/ideas).

Just a thought...

Ps: By the way, thanks MJS Mike for starting a useful and informative line of thought.


----------



## still learning (Feb 11, 2007)

shesulsa said:


> Ewwwww....


 
Hello, This was just a joke......Mobil one is a motor oil that is very good for making car engines last longer.............

When someone grabs your hair the intent is to control you.....FIGHT back anyway you can.......Aloha


----------



## jasonearle (Feb 12, 2007)

If they grab you, lets say, with their left hand, bring your left hand up and secure onto their wrist and hand.  Twist to your right and step your left foot back and this well lock their arm up keeping them from being able to punch with the other hand and it leaves your right arm free to execute maybe a pinpointed punch w/ one knuckle to the ribs or the pressure point in the armpit therefore controlling their heighth, width, and depth.  A visual example is easier to understand this.


----------



## Shaderon (Feb 20, 2007)

jasonearle said:


> If they grab you, lets say, with their left hand, bring your left hand up and secure onto their wrist and hand. Twist to your right and step your left foot back and this well lock their arm up keeping them from being able to punch with the other hand and it leaves your right arm free to execute maybe a pinpointed punch w/ one knuckle to the ribs or the pressure point in the armpit therefore controlling their heighth, width, and depth. A visual example is easier to understand this.


 

This is the one I immediately thought of but you got there before me, one thing though, I had my husband try and grab my hair while it was in a ponytail and we were walking down the street, so I could try it out before posting it, once he'd grabbed my hair, as he was taller than me, I was "twisting" nowhere, I was stuck so I had to resport to a (fake) back-kick to the knees.


----------

