# Awareness and self defense



## rdonovan1 (Aug 12, 2009)

I was wondering if anyone might have some ideas relating to self defense in the El Paso, Texas area and in Mexico as my mother and I are discussing the possibility of me going down there to have some dental work done and we both know as to how dangerous it really is down there, especially on the Mexican side.

We are also very aware that the Mexican's do not like Americans at all and will not hesitate to kill an American with little to no reason at all as we have both been to Mexico in the past.


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## still learning (Aug 12, 2009)

Hello, If your are aware of the dangers in Mexico....THAN DON'T GO!

This is one of the main rules of awareness..is avoid the danger places...

Even if you win a fight? ...what is going to stop the guys from coming back with guns/knives/and more of them? 

and trying to learn self-defense...can take years...to be proficent...

and to be physcial fit? ....are you and mother able to run away together?

One of the purpose of martial arts...is Prevention...being prepare...building self-confidents...etc...
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Most time the Mexico crimials will be arm....are you willing to get into a gun battle? 

In martial arts...one of the keys when fighting back...are you are prepare to die also...willing to fight to the end! (killer instincts must be develop if you do not have it)...
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You may need to be arm and train...if you decide to take any kind of weapons....Remember Mexico has laws regarding carrying? ...learn about them first..
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Lastly many people go to Mexico WITHOUT ANY PROBLEMS ALSO...and arrive back home with many great memories of Mexico...too!!!

NO matter where you are at..always trust your instincts....READ the Book: The Gift of FEAR.....

Aloha,

PS: We have Dental services in Hawaii...cost more than Mexico...but safer....?


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## blindsage (Aug 12, 2009)

I don't know specifically about the El Paso area and the Mexican side of the border there, but my mother lives and teaches college in McAllen and doesn't have any problems with Mexicans there.  She has never been the victim of a crime on either side of the border, and she's been across numerous times.  She has a number of Mexican students (that are Mexican citizens and live in Mexico, but cross the border everyday to go to the college) and none of them have tried to assault or kill her.  I think you have inflated danger perception here.  Mexicans do not hate Americans, especially near the border where Americans spend mucho dinero.  There are some areas where the drug affiliated violence has gotten out of control, and you may want to check into that in your area.  In general though, you need to have the same situational awareness you would have anywhere you go, and then go and enjoy the cheap dental work and the nice people.


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## rdonovan1 (Aug 12, 2009)

My mother is in her 60's and she is on oxygen so she couldn't run away from anything if her life depended upon it.

This came up because my mother and her boyfriend have both been to Mexico on multiple occasions to have dental work done there as it is at least 5 times cheaper to have the work done there than it is to have the work done in the United States.

We were discussing this because of the fact that I am currently having a lot of problems with my teeth in which they are basically killing me. Last night the pain from one of my teeth was so bad that I just wanted to bang my head against the wall so that I would not feel the pain in my mouth.

I don't have dental insurance at all and that along with the fact that my dead beat father should have taken care of a lot of this stuff when I was growing up, but unfortunately my father is for a lack of a better work an a**hole as he tends to believe like a lot of people that the world revolves around him and that he has no responsibility for anything that he does or says. 

This is not unsual as me and my mother have had to deal with this most of my life and it is because of my father and the fact that I was always being bullied by other kids when I was in school that I became interested in the martial arts and apparently I am not alone in that regards as Chuck Norris according to his book 'Against all odds' felt the same way towards his father and towards a lot of other people that he knew when he was growing up. The only real difference between me and Chuck Norris is that Chuck got his ideas about how to be a man and as to how to live his life with honor and integrity from the old west movies while I got my ideas from the martial arts.

I guess you could say that I have been having this same old argument with my father for a long time and whether I like it or not he is so hard headed that he like a lot of other people that I have met in the past cannot be honest with either himself or with others and that is something that I have been trying to deal with for a long time. Me and him just do not get along very well nor do we have the kind of relationship that I wish I could have with him as well as the rest of my family.


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## blindsage (Aug 12, 2009)

I just did some quick checking on Juarez, the city across the border from El Paso, there is indeed a lot of problems there.  You may want to consider going to a different city if you are set on going to Mexico to get your teeth done.


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## rdonovan1 (Aug 12, 2009)

blindsage said:


> I don't know specifically about the El Paso area and the Mexican side of the border there, but my mother lives and teaches college in McAllen and doesn't have any problems with Mexicans there. She has never been the victim of a crime on either side of the border, and she's been across numerous times. She has a number of Mexican students (that are Mexican citizens and live in Mexico, but cross the border everyday to go to the college) and none of them have tried to assault or kill her. I think you have inflated danger perception here. Mexicans do not hate Americans, especially near the border where Americans spend mucho dinero. There are some areas where the drug affiliated violence has gotten out of control, and you may want to check into that in your area. In general though, you need to have the same situational awareness you would have anywhere you go, and then go and enjoy the cheap dental work and the nice people.


 
From what you describe it sounds as though your mother has so far been lucky.

I know that Mexicans do not like Americans because I have been told my actual Mexicans that live in Mexico that they do not like Americans at all and that if they were to see you walking down the street alone in Mexico then they would not hestitate to jump you or to even kill you. 

I heard this not only from this guy, but also from a security officer in L.A. when I was driving truck. He told me that in L.A. the Mexicans are going around and killing Americans without hesitation because they want the areas back that once belonged to Mexico. 

I have also heard this from another security guard in Denver, Colorado as well.

I also know that Mexican law forbids guns in Mexico as I have seen them and they are very serious about that. 

Mexico is a very lawless country and is for the most part run by the drug cartels there and that is a known fact to the United States Government as there have been numerous instances in either Law Enforcement in the United States have run across that or in which Mexican officials have been killed shortly after taking office in Mexico.

Dental work in Mexico is 5 times cheaper than the United States and that is why my mother and I are discussing this whole issue. We are also trying to see if we can get my dead beat father to help with the financial aspect of the dental work as I don't have any kind of insurance at all.


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## rdonovan1 (Aug 12, 2009)

blindsage said:


> I just did some quick checking on Juarez, the city across the border from El Paso, there is indeed a lot of problems there. You may want to consider going to a different city if you are set on going to Mexico to get your teeth done.


 

The place the my mother is telling me about is in Juarez, but the problems in Mexico are not just in Juarez they are all over.

Whether we like it or not Mexico is still a third world country and once you step outside of the borders of the United States it is time to protect your Chonies because whether we like it or not there is a lot of anti-American seminism going on all over the world as a lot of countries tend to find Americans as being extremely rude and without decent morals and values.

This is part of what contributed to what happened on September 11, 2001 when the terrorists hijacked the airliners and crashed them into the World Trade Centers and the Pentagon. The United States Government knew that it would happen just like they did with Pearl Harbor, yet they took no action to prevent it from happening until after the fact because they like a lot of people did not want to hear the truth and as a result a lot of innocent Americans died because of their ignorance and foolishness.

They also knew about the space shuttle Challenger and that it had mechanical problems because it was reported to them by a couple of engineers before the accident happened, but they still allowed the shuttle to fly and as a result the shuttle blew up. I remember that because I saw it happen on television in the 1980's when it happened. 

I don't know if anyone has heard this or not, but just last night I was watching some show on T.V. which was hosted by Jonathan Frakes in which he was saying that the United States Government is now trying to develop mind control weapons that they can use on the battlefield against enemy troops. From what I caught and understood about it is that one of their hopes is to make the enemy so fearful that they drop their weapons and give up without even a shot being fired. 

I don't know if they can do that or not, but what I do know is that the United States Govenment does possess the ability to see and to tell you when and where you used the restroom anywhere in the world. This is a proven fact and it is the basis for many of our laser guided missiles as it all tends to work on your body heat. It was developed by the United States Government with the intention of wiping out enemy troops and in being able to see into places like enemy troop tent facilities out in the deserts or Iran and Iraq.

I don't know about anyone else, but I tend to think that what the United States Government does tends to be pretty outrageous and outlandish.


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## Carol (Aug 12, 2009)

I have a large number of customers in Mexico.   I would strongly urge against going across the border at El Paso.   Ciudad Juarez is probably the most violent city in the world at the moment.  It is an ugly blood bath with the drugs, gangs, and other assorted crap going on.

The lucky ones just get shot or stabbed..  The unlucky ones get kidnapped and worse.  It is so dangerous that even the Mexican businessmen that have lived there for their whole life are trying to move across the border in to El Paso.   I have a site in Juarez right now that desperately needs some field work, I can't even send people to it.  The risk is too great that my guys won't return home to their families.

If you want to have dental work done in Mexico, consider a safer border town such as Nogales, Chihuahua, which is about 90 minutes south of Tucson.   Or, offer cash to a local dentist and try negotiating down the price.


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## rdonovan1 (Aug 12, 2009)

Carol Kaur said:


> I have a large number of customers in Mexico. I would strongly urge against going across the border at El Paso. Ciudad Juarez is probably the most violent city in the world at the moment. It is an ugly blood bath with the drugs, gangs, and other assorted crap going on.
> 
> The lucky ones just get shot or stabbed.. The unlucky ones get kidnapped and worse. It is so dangerous that even the Mexican businessmen that have lived there for their whole life are trying to move across the border in to El Paso. I have a site in Juarez right now that desperately needs some field work, I can't even send people to it. The risk is too great that my guys won't return home to their families.
> 
> If you want to have dental work done in Mexico, consider a safer border town such as Nogales, Chihuahua, which is about 90 minutes south of Tucson. Or, offer cash to a local dentist and try negotiating down the price.


 
I don't know if negotiating with a local dentist will work as many of them tend to be pretty inflexible in their prices.

Nogales is probably a better choice, but at the moment neither me nor my mother know of any places that are as cheap and as good as the one that my mother and her boyfriend have been going to in Juarez.

From what I know most of the border towns in Mexico are pretty much the same way. I've heard that it tends to get better the deeper that you go into Mexico.

All that I know for sure is that I need to do something because the pain from at least one tooth is driving me crazy. I don't know if anyone else has ever had problems with their teeth, but it definitely can be very, very painful to deal with. 

I'm not sure, but I think that one of my teeth is what they call absessed.

I've been taking Ibuprophen to help control the pain, sucking on things like ice cubes and I have even tried warm saltwater to deal with it better.


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## rdonovan1 (Aug 12, 2009)

Carol Kaur said:


> I have a large number of customers in Mexico. I would strongly urge against going across the border at El Paso. Ciudad Juarez is probably the most violent city in the world at the moment. It is an ugly blood bath with the drugs, gangs, and other assorted crap going on.
> 
> The lucky ones just get shot or stabbed.. The unlucky ones get kidnapped and worse. It is so dangerous that even the Mexican businessmen that have lived there for their whole life are trying to move across the border in to El Paso. I have a site in Juarez right now that desperately needs some field work, I can't even send people to it. The risk is too great that my guys won't return home to their families.
> 
> If you want to have dental work done in Mexico, consider a safer border town such as Nogales, Chihuahua, which is about 90 minutes south of Tucson. Or, offer cash to a local dentist and try negotiating down the price.


 

I've heard that about Mexico, but it is not just in Mexico as it is also in other parts of the world and for some reason the Mexican's are taking that kind of stuff and spreading across the border into cities like El Paso and Laredo, Texas. 

I don't know if you have heard this before, but not too long ago a girl got killed at a Denny's restaurant in Albuquerque, New Mexico.

She was working there when four masked gunmen came in and robbed the place and while they were there they shot this girl.

According to the police it was members of a gang from El Salvador that did it.


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## jks9199 (Aug 12, 2009)

Look for a dental school in your area.  You can often obtain a surprising range of services at a lower cost as students work under the supervision of their instructors.  Especially for routine cleanings and exams -- this might be a much better option than traveling to another country (do you speak Spanish? are you sure the dentist will speak English? or even be qualified?  You don't want to see some of what I've seen pass for "dentists" working un licensed, under the table and behind closed doors in the Latino community...) hoping to get decent care.  Especially a place with rampant kidnappings and a 3-front drug cartel war going on.


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## jks9199 (Aug 12, 2009)

rdonovan1 said:


> I've heard that about Mexico, but it is not just in Mexico as it is also in other parts of the world and for some reason the Mexican's are taking that kind of stuff and spreading across the border into cities like El Paso and Laredo, Texas.
> 
> I don't know if you have heard this before, but not too long ago a girl got killed at a Denny's restaurant in Albuquerque, New Mexico.
> 
> ...


OK... Quick lesson on gangs.

MS-13. Mara Salvatrucha.  Deservedly, the current "boogieman" of gangs.  A very, very violent, transnational gang that originated among Salvadoran refugees IN LOS ANGELES in the 80s.  It was exported back to El Salvador as we deported some of these criminals, and now runs entire jails, collects "taxes" and "rents", and more in parts of El Salvador.  And there's more that I can't say in this forum.

18th Street.  Another so-called Latin American gang that really originated here in the US.  (Again, in Los Angeles.)  Also exported back to El Salvador.  Pretty much the same "lines of business" as MS.

Both have very strong presence across the US.  Both are very violent; like Avis, since they were smaller than Bloods and Crips -- they try harder.  

But... traveling in the US/Mexico border area, they probably aren't your main concern.  You need to worry about the drug cartels, the local criminals who have made a real business of kidnapping and Las Zetas.  The Zetas are the scariest, to me.  They were trained much like (and by) our Special Forces... and then they went and decided to become criminals.  (By the way... they're moving around in the US, too.)  They're ultra-violent, ultra-nasty...and just plain scary.

Bottom line:  Stay in the freaking US of A.  There are lots of ways to get dental care if you bother to look.


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## rdonovan1 (Aug 13, 2009)

jks9199 said:


> OK... Quick lesson on gangs.
> 
> MS-13. Mara Salvatrucha. Deservedly, the current "boogieman" of gangs. A very, very violent, transnational gang that originated among Salvadoran refugees IN LOS ANGELES in the 80s. It was exported back to El Salvador as we deported some of these criminals, and now runs entire jails, collects "taxes" and "rents", and more in parts of El Salvador. And there's more that I can't say in this forum.
> 
> ...


 
I don't know if there is any place in the United States that hasn't been touched by gangs except maybe the small rural communities like where my mother grew up and where I spent a lot of time at when I was a child.

I guess that you could say that when I was growing up I was either on my grandparents farm in the Jeffers, Minnesota area or up in the Minneapolis/St. Paul area.

For the most part as I was growing up there really wasn't much of a problem with gangs. For the most part it was just your average run of the mill bullies who for some reason had nothing better to do with their time than to attack you and to try to find ways of ridiculing and humiliting you as that is how they tended to boost their own ego.

I started to become somewhat familiar with gangs in the late 80's, but it was not until I started to drive truck over the road that my eyes were really opened as I got to see a lot of stuff out there on the road both with truck drivers and non truck drivers alike.

Sitting at truckstops listening to other truck drivers talk a lot of crap on the CB was sometimes interesting and entertaining to say the least. I think that the best conversation that I heard was when I was sitting at the Iowa 80 truckstop in Walcott, Iowa one night. 

I don't know what really started the rivalry, but during the conversation I heard one truck driver tell the other that he was ex special forces and a black belt and that he was going to go over the other guys truck, pull him out of his truck and kick his butt.

I thought it was kind of funny as it sounded so juvenile to me. This was not the first or the last time that I heard stuff like that and it is because of stuff like that and because of what I have seen and experienced not only before I started to drive truck, but even while I was in Mexico that helped to prompt me into wanting to buy Richard Van Donk's Black Belt Home Study Ninjutsu Course. 

I've got everything for it going up to 1st degree black belt, but I don't have the stuff beyond that which will take you beyond that point. To the best of my knowledge the furthest that you can go with his stuff is up to 4th degree black belt at least through home study. The rest has to be done in person and from what I understand you can only test for 5th degree and above in Japan and that is one of the reasons that I got interested in the Import/Export business.


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## MJS (Aug 13, 2009)

rdonovan1 said:


> I was wondering if anyone might have some ideas relating to self defense in the El Paso, Texas area and in Mexico as my mother and I are discussing the possibility of me going down there to have some dental work done and we both know as to how dangerous it really is down there, especially on the Mexican side.
> 
> We are also very aware that the Mexican's do not like Americans at all and will not hesitate to kill an American with little to no reason at all as we have both been to Mexico in the past.


 
So, basically, you're stereotyping every Mexican?  You're saying that all Mexicans hate Americans?  Thats interesting, because my wifes cousin is married to one, and he's a very nice person.  His mother also comes to visit his family and she lives in Mexico, and she too, is also very nice.  While she doesn't speak very much English, she still is polite and acknowledges everyone that she meets.  

As for the rest of your post....if you're that concerned about going to a particular area, its pretty simple...dont go.  Foreign country, in the states, it doesnt matter, you need to be aware everywhere you go.  Walk out your front door in the morning or at night to go to work, and you should be aware.


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## rdonovan1 (Aug 13, 2009)

MJS said:


> So, basically, you're stereotyping every Mexican? You're saying that all Mexicans hate Americans? Thats interesting, because my wifes cousin is married to one, and he's a very nice person. His mother also comes to visit his family and she lives in Mexico, and she too, is also very nice. While she doesn't speak very much English, she still is polite and acknowledges everyone that she meets.
> 
> As for the rest of your post....if you're that concerned about going to a particular area, its pretty simple...dont go. Foreign country, in the states, it doesnt matter, you need to be aware everywhere you go. Walk out your front door in the morning or at night to go to work, and you should be aware.


 
I'm not stereotyping anyone for any reason. I'm just going by what I have been told and by what I have seen.

I don't know about anyone else, but I personally do not believe in stereotyping anyone for any reason and in my book people that stereotype are stupid.

Maybe I might be a little naive on this, but I personally believe that a person should give another person a fair and adequate chance to prove themselve's before they go off the deep end and judge them. 

The way that I figure things is to let someone demonstrate and prove themselve's by their overall attitude and behavior. If they act like a jerk and they prove themselve's as being untrustworthy then that is their choice and their problem and not yours. If however they prove that they are honest, trustworthy and of impeccable character then that is great.

Perhaps I am the only one who tends to believe this, but I generally like to think of people being innocent until they are proven guilty either by their own attitudes and actions or by other people.

That's just my take and perception of it and if someone chooses to have a different opinion other than me on the subject then that is fine with me, just as long as they do not try to be obsessive or controlling about it and that they can prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt.


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## MJS (Aug 13, 2009)

rdonovan1 said:


> I'm not stereotyping anyone for any reason. I'm just going by what I have been told and by what I have seen.
> 
> I don't know about anyone else, but I personally do not believe in stereotyping anyone for any reason and in my book people that stereotype are stupid.
> 
> ...


 
This line:

"We are also very aware that the Mexican's do not like Americans at all and will not hesitate to kill an American with little to no reason at all as we have both been to Mexico in the past."

was taken directly from your post.  Reading this, it comes across that you're saying that all Mexicans are bad and will kill Americans.  Thats like saying that all Italians are mobsters, all that are Hispanic are part of the Latin Kings.  

There are going to be bad and good in every group.  

BTW, why are you going to Mexico to have dental work done?  Are there no dentists where you live?


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## theletch1 (Aug 13, 2009)

From the "rules"
*4.2.5 Hate Speech*

Hate speech is not allowed. Posts that contain material that is racist, sexist, homophobic, bigoted, or otherwise offensive, are not allowed. While discussion of certain social and political issues may require the use of sensitive or potentially offensive terms, outside of those limited contexts the use of such terms is not allowed on this board. 

Any statement that categorizes an entire race of individuals under one negative blanket will fall into this category.  Think carefully before you post.  It is often wise to use quantifying words such as "some" or "many" in these situations.


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## BLACK LION (Aug 13, 2009)

Go with someone you trust that speaks espanol...  
put a fixed blade on your hip and dont walk around like cattle, dont show your money or credit cards, dont use the atm and stay away from the hootie bars...dont wear any jewlery either...    
Use a fanny pack or money belt and put a folding knife in there with your money....


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## still learning (Aug 13, 2009)

Hello, Looks like we are looking at the cost here?

Cost of saving on dental work?
and the cost of protental to lost of lives if going to Mexico..

If you have fears of going to Mexico...because of the "some or many" dangers?

One should consider..finding a part-time jobs or ways to make extra money? ...cutting grass...washing cars..etc unlimited ways to raise extra money...and DO the dental work in America!

Doing it yourself is highly NOT recommended.....

Will the Dentist in Mexico be just as qualifiy?

Aloha,  ...those that brush teeth 3 times a day and floss just as much..usually have lower cost?

PS: Prevention is better than cure.....


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## rdonovan1 (Aug 13, 2009)

MJS said:


> This line:
> 
> "We are also very aware that the Mexican's do not like Americans at all and will not hesitate to kill an American with little to no reason at all as we have both been to Mexico in the past."
> 
> ...


 
You are right, there are going to be good and bad in every group and to me it really does not matter what race, religion, creed, gender, or anything else a person is as I don't discriminate against anyone so that is or at least should not be the issue at all. 

The issue should be as to whether a person is honest or not and as to whether they intend to do you harm. It is or at least it should be about intent and motive as that what really the matters most. 

In my book it really doesn't matter at all if you are black, white, green, or even pink with purple polka dots nor does it matter what your religion or gender is. If your intent is to harm me then you can expect that I will not only take defensive measures to protect both myself, my property and those that I care about, but I will also take offensive action to ensure that you do not do it again either.

For me it is all about self defense and self preservation and none of that racism or sexism stuff matters to me. For me it's also about being firm, but fair.

Mexico is cheaper than the United States when it comes to dental work and most anything as else for that matter.


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## MJS (Aug 13, 2009)

rdonovan1 said:


> You are right, there are going to be good and bad in every group and to me it really does not matter what race, religion, creed, gender, or anything else a person is as I don't discriminate against anyone so that is or at least should not be the issue at all.
> 
> The issue should be as to whether a person is honest or not and as to whether they intend to do you harm. It is or at least it should be about intent and motive as that what really the matters most.
> 
> ...


 
I can see that you're still not seeing that you stereotyped ALL Mexicans by your statement.  



> Mexico is cheaper than the United States when it comes to dental work and most anything as else for that matter.


 
To each his own, however, I'm a believer in quality over quantity.  In this case, I'd rather pay a bit more to ensure that the work was done the best it could be.  Then again, I'm fortunate enough to have excellent med. and dental benefits, so I can't complain.


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## blindsage (Aug 13, 2009)

Seriously man, you need to check your self.  My mother hasn't just 'been lucky', it's just that the vast majority of Mexicans are regular human beings that don't particularly hate Americans or feel a need to be violent towards them.  I do find it ironic that you said, 

"We are also very aware that the Mexican's do not like Americans at all and will not hesitate to kill an American with little to no reason at all as we have both been to Mexico in the past."

and you don't see the strange contradiction in that statement, or the blanket bigotry.  If they will not hesitate to kill an American with little to no reason, and you and your mother have been there before....WHY ARE YOU STILL ALIVE?!

Juarez _is _a particularly violent city, and you've been advised by multiple people that if you are afraid for your safety DON'T GO TO JUAREZ!  But your blanket and patently false statement that all border towns are the same as Juarez demonstrates to me that you aren't looking for clear and useful advice.  I'm not sure what your looking for.  But please, please, please STOP with the ignorant blanket statements about Mexicans, border towns, and third world countries.  If you are afraid of the violence in places like Juarez, again, DON'T GO!  If you think your need outweighs your fear of violence, then go prepared with situational awareness, proper preparations like Black Lion mentioned, don't be a tourist, and go and leave as quickly as possible.  Whatever else your asking for I'm not understanding.


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## rdonovan1 (Aug 13, 2009)

I can see now that the real problem here is that people just don't want to hear the truth at all and would rather run and hide from the truth.

My statements are not meant to be steretypical at all. Whether people want to accept that there actually are people outside of the United States that hate the United States and would like to see it destroyed is not going to change the truth.

At one time I used to feel proud to be an American, but based upon what people are saying I am really starting to feel very, very ashamed to be an American as way too many Americans have become so gripped with fear and political correctness that they have forgotten what it really means to be an American and what is worse are those people who claim to be martial artists yet are afraid to stand up and fight for what they believe in.

The whole meaning of the word Martial means war. What good does the martial arts do for you if you are afraid to use the martial arts in a life and death situation in which it is your life at stake against someone like a terrorist.

If this is the kind of behavior that we are going to see out of so called martial artists, then what business do they really have of calling themselve's martial artists. Perhaps maybe the martial arts just really is not their thing and perhaps some like a nice knitting class would be a better choice.

I don't know about anyone else here, but I have never seen a martial arts flick in which all of the fighters were afraid to fight. That is especially true for the Samurai flicks. 

From what I am seeing the terrorists are doing a really good job of creating fear in the American people and within the whole martial arts community as that is the entire goal of terrorists and that is to create so much of a fear in you that you will just simply give up without even so much of a fight.

I guess that we need to give that one to the terrorists as they are proving to be a lot smarter than any American or martial artist.


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## rdonovan1 (Aug 13, 2009)

BLACK LION said:


> Go with someone you trust that speaks espanol...
> put a fixed blade on your hip and dont walk around like cattle, dont show your money or credit cards, dont use the atm and stay away from the hootie bars...dont wear any jewlery either...
> Use a fanny pack or money belt and put a folding knife in there with your money....


 
Those are some really great ideas that you have and I agree with all of them. The only problem is that I may not be allowed to bring a knife into Mexico either due to the way their laws are setup there.

The bringing a friend with that speaks spanish is a brilliant idea and would definitely do it if I could find some that I can trust and that speaks Spanish. The only person that I know of that fits that description is a Hispanic friend of mine who lives near me. 

Unfortunately, I probably would not be able to get him to agree to go with me as he is usually very busy with his family and with his job.


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## rdonovan1 (Aug 13, 2009)

MJS said:


> I can see that you're still not seeing that you stereotyped ALL Mexicans by your statement.
> 
> 
> 
> To each his own, however, I'm a believer in quality over quantity. In this case, I'd rather pay a bit more to ensure that the work was done the best it could be. Then again, I'm fortunate enough to have excellent med. and dental benefits, so I can't complain.


 

I think that maybe you are right as you have given me all the reasons as to why you feel you should not fight back and as to why you believe that you should be a victim of some terrorist or criminal.

It kind of makes me wonder then as to why you chose to get into the martial arts. 

The reason for me going to Mexico is because it is a lot cheaper than dentists in the United States. It is at least 5 times cheaper than what dentists in the United States and that is an important thing to consider when you are flat broke, unemployed, and looking for work as the financial resources just are not there at all to afford to pay a dentist in the United States.


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## Deaf Smith (Aug 13, 2009)

rdonovan1,

I don't know about Mexicans 'hateing' Americans. 
There are pleny of gringos down there and they are not dropping like flies.
Some Mexicans may have a grudge, but I think since so many sneak over here, that maybe only a few do.

Now as for awareness.

Google 'self defense awareness tactics' and you will find tons of info.

Deaf


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## rdonovan1 (Aug 14, 2009)

Deaf Smith said:


> rdonovan1,
> 
> I don't know about Mexicans 'hateing' Americans.
> There are pleny of gringos down there and they are not dropping like flies.
> ...


 
I don't know as to how many American's are in Mexico or elsewhere as I am not the Government and that type of stuff just does not interest me at all. What matters the most is as to what works and what does not and I'm not interested in theory either.

I don't know as to how many Mexican's feel that way about the United States and it's people, but there are a lot of them. I don't know about anyone else, but I sure as heck do feel like waiting until someone whether Mexican or not sticks a gun to my head. 

A major part of any self defense regimen is being aware of your surroundings and in understanding who your enemy is and who your friends are and that is something that all martial arts are supposed to teach beyond just physical technique. Physical technique without good emotional and psychological control and without understandind and knowing who your friends and enemies are and without a good strategy for implementing those techniques is foolhardy and that was proven time and time again by people like Sun Tzu and Miyamoto Mushashi.

It's been said that the greatest weapon of all time has been the human mind and that is something that I tend to believe in as I tend to have a pretty good understanding as to how the mind really works because I have spent quite a lot of time studying it.

I don't know everything however and I never will either as no one can know everything and it is very unrealistic for anyone think that they do. People who claim to know everything and who cannot admit to either themselve's or to others are according to psychology egomaniacs and that is something that you definitely do not want in a combat situation as more often than not those are the types of people who tend to get either themselve's or others killed.


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## MJS (Aug 14, 2009)

rdonovan1 said:


> I can see now that the real problem here is that people just don't want to hear the truth at all and would rather run and hide from the truth.


 
Don't want to hear the truth?  The truth from who, you?  What makes what you're saying the end all, be all of truth?  



> My statements are not meant to be steretypical at all. Whether people want to accept that there actually are people outside of the United States that hate the United States and would like to see it destroyed is not going to change the truth.


 
I beg to differ.  



> At one time I used to feel proud to be an American, but based upon what people are saying I am really starting to feel very, very ashamed to be an American as way too many Americans have become so gripped with fear and political correctness that they have forgotten what it really means to be an American and what is worse are those people who claim to be martial artists yet are afraid to stand up and fight for what they believe in.
> 
> The whole meaning of the word Martial means war. What good does the martial arts do for you if you are afraid to use the martial arts in a life and death situation in which it is your life at stake against someone like a terrorist.
> 
> ...


 
Seems like you're going in 2 directions here.  1 you're saying that all Mexicans are evil and in the other you're saying that people are afraid to defend themselves.  You need to re-read how and what you're saying, because you are stereotyping.  Second, I never said that I was afraid to defend myself.  I have no issues defending myself, however, I like to make sure its a justified defense.


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## MJS (Aug 14, 2009)

rdonovan1 said:


> I think that maybe you are right as you have given me all the reasons as to why you feel you should not fight back and as to why you believe that you should be a victim of some terrorist or criminal.
> 
> It kind of makes me wonder then as to why you chose to get into the martial arts.
> 
> The reason for me going to Mexico is because it is a lot cheaper than dentists in the United States. It is at least 5 times cheaper than what dentists in the United States and that is an important thing to consider when you are flat broke, unemployed, and looking for work as the financial resources just are not there at all to afford to pay a dentist in the United States.


 
Ummm...WTF are you talking about here?????  Show me where I said that I or we should not fight back and be victims.  Please, show me that post.  Bro, I could give a rats *** less, where you go to get your dental work done.  I asked a simple question.  You're coming on here, acting like a paranoid freak about going to Mexico.  If you're afraid, then DONT GO!  My God dude, its not rocket science here.  Go, dont go...pick one.


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## MJS (Aug 14, 2009)

And as far as Mexicans hating Americans...well, seems like the Boarder Patrol is pretty busy with people trying to sneak over illegally, so if they hate us so bad, why are they trying to come over?  Oh wait...are you going to tell me its because they (the Mexicans) have some secret plan to come over to the US and kill Americans?


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## rdonovan1 (Aug 14, 2009)

MJS said:


> Don't want to hear the truth? The truth from who, you? What makes what you're saying the end all, be all of truth?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Justifying your defense is great and I wholeheartedly believe that is a very good idea.

This is not about whether a person is a Mexican or any other race nor is it about what gender you are. It is all about how you use your mind and as to whether you are really paying attention to the details of your surroundings. 

If you are not paying attention to the details of your surroundings and if you are underestimating your opponent then you have already lost the fight before it has even begun and this is something that Sun Tzu and Miyamoto Musashi knew all too well and both took advantage of it whenever they could. 

It's all about having a good self defense strategy in place and in knowing how to really wage war. 

If you have not read any of Sun Tzu's stuff or Miyamoto Musashi's stuff and it you have not studied proper military and martial strategy then how can you say that you are really prepared for a knock down drag out fight.

This is nothing more than simple common sense and it is stuff that both Sun Tzu and Musashi knew all too well. It is also the type of stuff that the special forces, law enforcement, and the ninja knew as well and it is common sense out on the street. Especially in the hood.


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## MJS (Aug 14, 2009)

rdonovan1 said:


> Justifying your defense is great and I wholeheartedly believe that is a very good idea.
> 
> This is not about whether a person is a Mexican or any other race nor is it about what gender you are. It is all about how you use your mind and as to whether you are really paying attention to the details of your surroundings.
> 
> ...


 
Bro, lemme tell you something.  I've been training in the arts for a bit over 20yrs now.  I'm confident with my training, and I'm more than aware of my surroundings when I'm out, either by myself or with my wife, family, friends, etc.  I dont need a book to tell me how to be aware, although there are some out there that give good advice.  

Again, before you assume something about me, please show me where I've said that I'm not aware or that its ok to not be aware.  Good luck in finding a post, because you probably will not find one.


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## rdonovan1 (Aug 14, 2009)

MJS said:


> Ummm...WTF are you talking about here????? Show me where I said that I or we should not fight back and be victims. Please, show me that post. Bro, I could give a rats *** less, where you go to get your dental work done. I asked a simple question. You're coming on here, acting like a paranoid freak about going to Mexico. If you're afraid, then DONT GO! My God dude, its not rocket science here. Go, dont go...pick one.


 
I'm not being paranoid at all. All that I am trying to do is to apply good sound strategy into my security and self defense plan. The people that are being paranoid are the ones that are accusing me of being racist or sexist. 

Racism and sexism have nothing to do with good sound military and self defense strategy and that is as I have been saying been proven time and time again. 

I personally really don't care what someone looks like or what their gender is or any of that other crap. Maybe that might matter to other people, but it does not matter to me. I tend to look at the person as a whole and I base my decisions on whether I think someone is someone that I should be friends with or as to whether they are someone that might try to hurt me by how they talk and how they act towards me and others.

If for example you present yourself as a nice caring person when you meet me and you extend me your hand along with a nice smile then I am more than likely going to perceive you as being a nice person. If however you greet me with a gun or anything other than a pleasent persona then I am really going to start to wonder as to whether you are a safe and trustworthy person or as to whether your intent is to hurt me.

Perception is everything and whether people like it or not first impressions can and do make a big difference in how you are perceived by others. This is something that is not only known on the battlefield, but also in the business and dating worlds.


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## MJS (Aug 14, 2009)

rdonovan1 said:


> I'm not being paranoid at all. All that I am trying to do is to apply good sound strategy into my security and self defense plan. The people that are being paranoid are the ones that are accusing me of being racist or sexist.
> 
> Racism and sexism have nothing to do with good sound military and self defense strategy and that is as I have been saying been proven time and time again.
> 
> ...


 
Personally, I think you're preaching to the choir here.  Your opening post here, came across as stereotyping Mexicans.  You said and I quote:

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1209652&postcount=1



> I was wondering if anyone might have some ideas relating to self defense in the El Paso, Texas area and in Mexico as my mother and I are discussing the possibility of me going down there to have some dental work done and we both know as to how dangerous it really is down there, especially on the Mexican side.
> 
> *We are also very aware that the Mexican's do not like Americans at all and will not hesitate to kill an American with little to no reason at all as we have both been to Mexico in the past.*


 
Now, see if you can follow this.  Saying what you said, states that all Mexicans are bad.  If you had said, "There are some people who live in Mexico that do not like Americans" would say that there are SOME not ALL.  Are you following that?  

I'm still waiting for you to show me my post where I said that I wasnt aware or that people should not be aware.  I've stated many times, that awareness is very important.  Now sure why or where you got the impression that I felt otherwise, but I think you need to start reading in more detail before you post, because you're contradicting yourself at every turn and twisting posts and words to suit your needs.


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## rdonovan1 (Aug 14, 2009)

I think that what people need to do is to take a look at the post that Carol put up about what she has noticed about them and if that is not enough for anyone to believe the truth about them, then perhaps people should go down to places like Juarez and Neuvo Laredo.

If they did that then they would find out first hand as to just how violent they are becomming. Whether people like it or not Mexico is a proven third world country and the reason as to why they are trying to come to the United States is because their economy and living conditions are so poor that they are hoping that if they were to go to the United States, then perhaps they will have a better life.

They are becoming not only violent against Americans, but also against their own people. 

In Nuevo Laredo itself they had a police chief that had just come into power there and who had not been in office for more than about a week before he was assasinated by their own people.

Whether people like it or not their government is very corrupt and police officers there can and will stop you for no reason at all and search you and if they don't like you for any reason or if you give them any guff then they will take your *** and haul you away to a Mexican jail where you will sit until they decide at their leisure that they should let you go.

Whether people like it or not they are not bound by the laws that we have in the United States at all as it is a foreign country. 

If I am being stereotypical then why are they doing this stuff even to their own people. 

It sounds to me that the only ones that are being stereotypical are those that are accusing me of it as all they are doing is making unfounded accusations without even bothering to check their facts at all. 

If they were to do their homework then they would know that what I am saying true and that I am not being stereotypical or paranoid at all. 

Mexico is not the only country that does stuff like this as it also happens in a lot of other countries like Nigeria, and even Japan is doing stuff like that as well. At least in Japan their aggression is largely directed towards themselves, but when it comes to the laws in Japan they will not hesitate to put an American in jail until they see fit to release you. 

Anyone with any common sense can google this stuff and find out for themselve's as to what is happening around the world and as to how Americans are treated in a lot of countries.


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## MJS (Aug 14, 2009)

LOL, I have to laugh, because you keep talking about how bad some parts of the world are.  As I said in an earlier post....if its that bad, then dont go.  Its that simple.  Stay out of bad parts of town, watch where you go at late hours of the night, don't frequent places that are known to be high risk areas, ie: bars, clubs, etc.

I don't travel out of the country.  Really, the only big traveling I do, is when I go on a cruise.  I've never had any issues when I travel.  A guy I work with went on a cruise with some friends.  They went to Italy, Spain and a few other places.  Good time, and no issues. 

Its really very simple.  Do your homework, and stay out of the bad areas.  I have a dentist about a mile away from where I live.  As I said, if you're that worried about it, dont go.  With all of the assistance programs that the good ol' USA gives out, I'm sure you can find someone here to help you with your teeth.


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## morph4me (Aug 14, 2009)

The same can be said about the way Americans treat Americans, and Mexicans, and people of color, and homosexuals, and damn near any other group. People are people not matter where you go, and you've been given some very good advice, if you think you have something to fear by going someplace, don't go. I was in El Paso a couple of years ago and took a day trip to Juarez, wandered around with my wife, a friend and his wife, and nobody even looked at us funny.


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## blindsage (Aug 14, 2009)

And again if you don't think Juarez or Nuevo Laredo are safe DON'T GO!  What the hell does that have to do with Mexicans in general being violent and hating Americans?  YOU ARE STEREOTYPING, and just saying you don't do that doesn't contradict the fact that you've already done it.

Oh and by the way, stay out of L.A., New York, Houston, Miami, New Orleans, Chicago, Cleveland, Seattle and I guess pretty much any American city, 'cause guess what, people get murdered and robbed their too, oh and much of it is drug violence.  Hey wait maybe the Mexicans should be afraid of _you_.


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## BLACK LION (Aug 14, 2009)

Well I understand both sides and a simple question would have nipped this in the butt 3 pages ago... better yet, a lasting edit feature...  

I see where the op is getting at,  although a play on words can decifer it to mean something it was not intended to.  

I live in San Diego and have been to TJ and Mexico enough to have a bad taste in my mouth...I have family that was born there and family that still goes down there...some to visit and some to build thier homes...  
All the recent cartel bs has spilled into the streets on our soil and there... people are being kidnapped, shot and blown up in broad daylight.... Albiet mostly cartel related it is still relevant... 
He is right about one thing,  most of them dont give a shyt about us and if you go there speaking gringo you will soon find that out first hand... For the most part, they are all about getting by using any means necessary... if that means tipping off the policia for something stupid to get a cut or holding you up at the atm or any of the little things that can and do happen over there...  
I am worried enough about that place to suspend all trips over the border until further notice....regardless of what anyone tells me and my wife who is "mexican" agrees... even if she doesnt like the fact that she has no choice...  the proof is in the pudding and I refuse to jepoardize her life or my daughters just for some cheap tacos and blankets...  

There is obvious violence on both sides becuase of the cartel bs and it hit home when a mans throat was slit while in a car 3 blocks from my house becuase of it...  

I am not here to make determinations about any race or creed... but if you are close to TJ then you know exactly what I am talking about and becuase of that, I understand where the op was going....


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## Xue Sheng (Aug 25, 2009)

AND the only OTHER POST I want to restore...since the original was LOST  Actually you did me a favor there was an error in the previous one that I did not find until it was to late to correct

I read through this thread and I think there is something else that should be considered since Sunzi (sun Tzu) Bingfa (Sun Tzu Bing Fa) and Miyamoto Musashi were thrown in as a justification...and I have added another that I believe also applies to the topic of discussion



> "Therefore the skillful leader subdues the enemy's troops without any fighting; he captures their cities without laying siege to them; he overthrows their kingdom without lengthy operations in the field."
> 
> "It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle."
> 
> Sunzi Bingfa (Sun Tzu Bing Fa)


 


> &#8220;Do nothing which is of no use.&#8221;
> 
> &#8220;In fighting and in everyday life you should be determined though calm. Meet the situation without tenseness yet not recklessly, your spirit settled yet unbiased. An elevated spirit is weak and a low spirit is weak. Do not let the enemy see your spirit.&#8221;
> 
> ...


 


> One often meets his destiny on the road he takes to avoid it
> 
> Quit, don't quit? Noodles, don't noodles? You are too concerned about what was and what will be. There is a saying: yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, but today is a gift. That is why it is called the "present&#8221;
> 
> Oogway


 
And yes I have read both books, 4 different translations of Sunzi Bingfa and one translation of The book of the 5 rings...... Oh and I saw Kung Fu Panda too.


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