# Fortunes Yet to be Made?



## elder999 (Apr 18, 2011)

So one of the subjects that came up in this thread last year was the nature of wealth and its generation, and whether or not there were fortunes yet to be made. Somewhere in there, around page 5 or so, I said I wasn&#8217;t sure, but that my instincts said there were.

Needless to say I&#8217;ve thought about that a little, and thought I&#8217;d share some of those thoughts for discussion.In fact, I thought of it a lot. I even started a brief thread on increasing the wealth of others. 

In any case, I still tend to think that the future holds many opportunities for generating wealth, especially if you&#8217;re willing to start now. It&#8217;s long been an axiom in my family that in lean times one should buy real estate, and the current situation is, in my opinion, no different, if one has the means to do so. Interest rates are low, and the market is depressed. If you can buy real estate as a long term investment now, I tend to think that you&#8217;ll see a good return in 10-20 years. There&#8217;s also room for speculation in precious metals and other commodities. Mark is going to quickly point out, though, that investment in real estate, commodities and /or stocks isn&#8217;t really generating wealth as much as it is exploiting markets, and he&#8217;s sort of right. What about _creating_ markets, then? Those TAPOUT guys, ***-hats that they seem to be, created a whole segment of the fashion industry from ..hehe&#8230;_whole cloth._ They started out hawking their T-shirts at MMA events, and a small business grew into a multi-million dollar operation-one that created an entire industry of imitators. They made a fortune by recognizing a potential market and fulfilling its needs. Throughout history people have done this, sometimes with the silliest of things, like the pet-rock. It was just a rock, but, for a while there, everybody had to have one. The same could be said for any number of fads, but fads are really only good for the quick buck&#8230;.nothing wrong with the quick buck, and it might even amount to &#8220;a fortune,&#8221; but it&#8217;s hardly creating a lasting market, which is where the real money is.

So, one real hope for a fortune lies in recognizing a need and filling it. In the realm of technology this could be a software package, or the replacement for internal combustion, or-and this comes up a lot, lately-a method for filtering and/or sequestering CO2 emissions from coal plants. Or a better method for storing electricity. Any one of these would make their makers rich beyond all dreams of avarice.All of these are fortunes, waiting to be made.

Ditto for recognizing emerging markets-seeing a _future_ need and working in the here and now to control all or part of that need. I have, in fact, been working towards this, as an adjunct to a few speculative real estate purchases. I&#8217;ve seen the future, and it looks like this:

[yt]_AbZGMNpU0o[/yt]


......and, no, I am most definitely *not* kidding.


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## SFC JeffJ (Apr 18, 2011)

Being more or less a proponent of the Austrian school of economics, I don't believe there is a finite amount of "wealth" in the world. If we are smart, work hard, and yes, a bit lucky too, we can all have a piece of the pie.

Jeff


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## Sukerkin (Apr 18, 2011)

elder999 said:


> Mark is going to quickly point out, though, that investment in real estate, commodities and /or stocks isn&#8217;t really generating wealth as much as it is exploiting markets, and he&#8217;s sort of right.


 
Thank you my friend; I am flattered that you knew I would see this thread and be drawn to it .

I can't watch the video yet as I am at work and Net Nannie says no to YouTube but I look forward to it.


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## elder999 (Apr 18, 2011)

SFC JeffJ said:


> Being more or less a proponent of the Austrian school of economics, I don't believe there is a finite amount of "wealth" in the world. If we are smart, work hard, and yes, a bit lucky too, we can all have a piece of the pie.
> 
> Jeff


 

"Wealth," as I've demonstrated, can be created. The dot-com boom is one example of this: money out of almost nothing-_virtually_ (snicker!) nothing. 

*Resources,* on the other hand, are quite finite, again, as I've demonstrated, in this thread:



elder999 said:


> *The planet earth weighs 1.3 E 25pounds. *(130,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000)
> 
> 
> Or, if you prefer, 4.6 *E 18*tons. (46000,000,000,000,000,000)
> ...


 

As long as wealth is tied to resources, those resources must be found elsewhere, or replaced, as we did whale oil with kerosene. In this, I'm very much a Malthusian. Whod've believed, 40 years ago, the fortunes to be made in bottled water? What will the cost of water be 20 or 40 years from now? Would you believe me if I said that there'd be a charge on air in 50 years? Would you consider the possibility?



Sukerkin said:


> Thank you my friend; I am flattered that you knew I would see this thread and be drawn to it .
> 
> I can't watch the video yet as I am at work and Net Nannie says no to YouTube but I look forward to it.


 
Good God, Mark-it's a bit of prescient nonsense.....prescient nonetheless.....


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## Bob Hubbard (Apr 18, 2011)

When I was in college, my adviser told me that BASIC was the future, that there was no money to be made in video games, and that BBS's were a fad.
I didn't listen to him, and you know how history turned out.
I'm not rich, yet, but working on it.

Years ago a homeless woman had an idea for a book. People scoffed at her, she wasn't a trained writer, and kids books weren't seen as a big money maker. The final movie on her 7 books is due out in 2 parts shortly.

Couple years ago some college kid had an idea for hooking up with his friends on a small chat service. A small thing really, and there were others much more robust around, but somehow it took off. Now they make movies about the founders. Ask your friends on Facebook if they know what I'm talking about here.

Keys to wealth building are simple: Find a need, fill it, and charge money for it.  In the case of some of these though, it's more like develop a need, get folks excited, profit.

Somehow I think I missed an opportunity with MT...shoulda sent a couple shirts to Shamrock.


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## Bill Mattocks (Apr 18, 2011)

I think real estate could be good or bad as an investment right now; much depends upon use and location, as always.  It is simply more affordable now, the basics haven't changed.

I think that precious metals are a poor choice right now. Not because they don't have upside potential, but because they are volatile, at or above historic highs, and there are a number of plausible scenarios which could send them plunging.

With regard to the market - I'm mostly out again.  I was in last year, and realized a 30% gain in value.  I've taken that off the table this year.  I have long been a proponent of contrarian investing; using the simple axiom that everyone says and no one does - buy low, sell high.  I bought F at $2 when it was a 'dead company walking' after it became clear to me that they would not be taking insolvency or a government bailout.  Of course, I also bought EK at $2 and I should have bailed on that when it hit $6 briefly.  Ah well, I'm still up 50% on that.

I have hedges in inflation-indexed bonds and have for several years now.  I realize that they haven't been big winners; inflation has mostly not happened in the 'real' sense, but rather a form of stagflation.  However, I keep seeing commodities predictions and I keep thinking inflation is about to hit big.  I may be foolish to keep invested in inflation-indexed bonds, but remember, one doesn't buy them to make money, but to keep from losing real value.

With regards to trends and small business, I would consider starting companies which deal with various ways to bring local produce to market in better ways than farmer's markets; I think we're due for a pandemic created by poor food safety management and we're perched on the cusp of an antibiotic uselessness meltdown (I would also be looking at biotech firms doing research in genetic-based antibiotics as well, but that's a reach).

In education, I'd be looking at developing alternative private school approaches that compete with the Montessori system.  Currently, there is nothing out there and private education corporations are not doing a good job of exploiting the market.  I see huge upscale opportunity there to develop, package, and provide services to various markets where governments will be forced to downsize and cut costs but which must still provide services such as education.

In martial arts, there is not (as yet) a national chain of training schools that takes advantage of the market or exploits it effectively.  There are many small chains of profitable systems, but none which reach all segments of the market.  It's all small-scale entrepreneurs at the moment.  I would look towards tie-ins with the various cable TV channels which are dying for content, 'real' TV drama, nationally-syndicated competitions, and tie-ins with sports equipment manufacturers.  Goodyear sells tires and has tire dealerships. Adidas sells MA equipment, why does it not have a franchised MA training center concept?

The list of possibilities goes on and on.  Nothing changes in dramatic times except the chances for profit become more pronounced because things change.  All turmoil represents opportunity to the wise.

The basic concept is to look at things you know for how they could be done better, cheaper, faster, or marketed better or differently.


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## Bill Mattocks (Apr 18, 2011)

Bob Hubbard said:


> Keys to wealth building are simple: Find a need, fill it, and charge money for it.  In the case of some of these though, it's more like develop a need, get folks excited, profit.



The latter.  Also, we're back to the days of efficiency experts.  Look for inefficiencies and think of ways to make them more efficient.  One can sell this ability in any number of ways.  As consultant, as a business owner, as an investor.

Finding a need is hard work and very risky.  I think the world needs a combination pooper-scooper and hedge-trimmer, because I often find myself doing pickup duty whilst trimming my hedges.  But alas, after inventing the instrument, patenting it, finding a manufacturer, starting a corporation, attracting investment capital, and securing a distribution channel, I discover that no one really wants my amazing device.  I saw the need - I even managed to convince investors that the need existed - I threw ten years of my life and my net worth into it - and nada.

Rather, I like to look at trends as they are developing.  It's almost never the first guys in who make the money.  It is the guys who figure out what they're doing, find ways to do it faster, cheaper, and more efficiently, and who figure out where the actual profit is.  Wash, rinse, repeat.  You do that already.


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## Bob Hubbard (Apr 18, 2011)

The whole idea that McDonalds as we know it today was started by a milk shake salesman, and not the McDonald brothers who founded the restaurant?


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## Sukerkin (Apr 18, 2011)

elder999 said:


> Good God, Mark-it's a bit of prescient nonsense.....prescient nonetheless.....



ROFLKITA!  Ice Pirates!  I saw that movie :lol:.  I was anticipating some serious economic video treatise I have to confess ... that'll teach me not to look at tags, even of videos I can't view .


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## Xue Sheng (Apr 18, 2011)

Bob Hubbard said:


> The whole idea that McDonalds as we know it today was started by a milk shake salesman, and not the McDonald brothers who founded the restaurant?


 
Sooooo

Change the name to McMartial McArts McTalk, sell Milk Shakes, and T-Shirts and you will be wealthy...Problem solved


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## Bill Mattocks (Apr 18, 2011)

Xue Sheng said:


> Sooooo
> 
> Change the name to McMartial McArts McTalk, sell Milk Shakes, and T-Shirts and you will be wealthy...Problem solved



Better yet...

Find new methods to exploit the demonstrated eyeballs that MT gets.  Don't just sell banner ads and endorsements. Partner outside of the online discussion forum business.  Get the branding going (yes, McMT, that's the concept).

Or, if one doesn't want to remain in the business of running at MT, discover where the apex of value is after founding - there is a sweet spot where the membership takes off and the work has not yet become overwhelming. Sell and start another.  Starting and then RUNNING multiple sites adds to the workload, eventually destroys you.  Like having a successful full-time job and then adding another.  The problem with that model is it requires the proprietor not to take a personal interest in the eventual demise of the forum he or she started.  Not everyone can do that; it becomes their baby.

Another is to capitalize on the knowledge gained on how to start a successful online forum.  Write the book, sell the seminars, teach others or hire yourself out as a consultant to businesses that want to have that captive audience.  Ever notice that a lot of private firms that made widgets have forums now?  Ever notice that they're mostly lame?  Yeah.  Someone like Bob could go in there and turn their fun add-on that makes their geek customers mildly happy and puts their engineers more in touch with the user base into a powerhouse of synergistic communication that results in products the geeks want, working the way they want them to work, made without the extra-cost and profit-lowering extras that they don't, and bring them to market faster through a ready group of evangelical beta testers and Facebook posters.  It's a huge market; absolutely untapped.  Free idea there, guys - that's a multi-million dollar concept right now - just do it.  Take the money.  I can't do it; I am not Bob.  But Bob could do this one in his sleep.  Retire in a couple years.  I'll be happy to accept 10 percent as a finder's fee, but other than that, consider it a gift.

Just a few concepts - not advocating anything.

I'm an idea man, Chuck:

http://youtu.be/5U5UH1kQeUA


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## Xue Sheng (Apr 18, 2011)

Bill Mattocks said:


> Better yet...
> 
> Find new methods to exploit the demonstrated eyeballs that MT gets. Don't just sell banner ads and endorsements. Partner outside of the online discussion forum business. Get the branding going (yes, McMT, that's the concept).
> 
> ...


 

Let me run this one by you....MT90X


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## Bill Mattocks (Apr 18, 2011)

Xue Sheng said:


> Let me run this one by you....MT90X



Probably not a natural - but if you squint at it right, you might could see the tie-in.  But don't start it - that takes capital and time.  Partner instead.  Go to the people with the time, tools, money, and capability to reach a mass audience of people who want to make money themselves, sell what you know to their audience through synergistic partnering.

Take the universal part of Bob's knowledge - how to start and build a successful online discussion forum - and instead of simply doing it over and over again at the cost of Bob's own nights off and time and energy, package that knowledge and sell it.

Partner with one of those marketing firms that do the infomercials on how to buy real estate foreclosures or how to make money on eBay and build an informercial series on how to found and build a profitable online discussion forum.  There's your P90X right there.  P90X is not about getting in shape.  It's about someone making a lot of money.  Change your perspective, change your life.  Then you can pay a personal trainer to get you in shape if that's what you want.


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## MA-Caver (Apr 18, 2011)

As it's been noted there will always be ways to acquire "new wealth/fortunes"... whether a quick 90 day wonder fad or a long lasting product from humble beginnings. As technology grows and changes so do the potential to create new fortunes. As Bill noted however it DOES take start up capital. Maybe not a lot, but at least some to get the ball rolling. 

"I got a million ideas, problem is they all suck!" ~ George Carlin 
Finding that need is one thing, finding that need that is universal is another. Walk into any Walmart, Home Depot, Sears, Office Max, et al. and you'll see those items lining the shelves. You walk by and think to yourself, dammit I could've thought of that. But would you actually BUY IT? 

There was a program that once starred Billy Mays and his partner (?) where they would get an idea/invention from someone examine it and look at it's potential learned all they could about it, get it over to some slick manufacturer and help market it for them. Most just didn't go and others well... you know "the rest of the story". 

Sometimes a need goes unanswered for other reasons. Like a cheaper gas/oil alternative. Lots of people have come up with viable actually workable solutions to the internal combustion engine or the fuel needed to run them ... but just *where* is that technology? WHY isn't it being put to use? Saw a video years ago on the web where a guy had created a working hydrogen fuel that could replace petroleum fuel based products. Can't find it now... wonder why. 
So depending upon the need and who has control of the present supply/demand of that need anything you got that can better it will more-n-likely be suppressed or filed away until there is no other alternative. 

Lots of hard work indeed, lots of effort... sometimes... sometimes it pays off.


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## Bill Mattocks (Apr 18, 2011)

MA-Caver said:


> As it's been noted there will always be ways to acquire "new wealth/fortunes"... whether a quick 90 day wonder fad or a long lasting product from humble beginnings. As technology grows and changes so do the potential to create new fortunes. As Bill noted however it DOES take start up capital. Maybe not a lot, but at least some to get the ball rolling.



It takes a lot of money to open a pie shop.  It does not take a lot of money for a pie shop expert to sell their marketing idea to a company that packages and franchises restaurant chains.  It takes them spending THEIR money.  But that's what they need to do, that's what they want to do.  They just need a good reason to do it.  Find that reason and present it to them.

So much is done so poorly that there are always great spaces one can innovate inside; and get someone else to provide the working capital and distribution channels and so on.  Partnering is key.  Find the companies that already exist in those spaces and give them something new they do to save money, make more money, reach a new audience, expand their horizons, or whatever your concept is.

Your ideas can't be just concepts, though.  That's where the real value you present is; you have to be the expert you claim to be.  Like talking about Bob and MT.  Trust me, he's learned a lot about how to build an online discussion forum and create a sense of community.  That's a commodity, baby.  That's expertise that is worth _beau coups_ bucks.  I could not sell that - nor anything to do with pie shops.  But Bob could sell what he knows.  No one is going to pay money to listen to ME talk about building an online forum; but they will pay Bob to talk to them about it.  He's sitting on a gold mine; he already put in the dues in the form of hard work and monetary investment.  Now he just has to find ways to put his expertise to work in new ways.  That's how to do it.



> "I got a million ideas, problem is they all suck!" ~ George Carlin
> Finding that need is one thing, finding that need that is universal is another. Walk into any Walmart, Home Depot, Sears, Office Max, et al. and you'll see those items lining the shelves. You walk by and think to yourself, dammit I could've thought of that. But would you actually BUY IT?



That's why you don't look for new needs.  There will be new needs, and people will come up with cool stuff to fill those needs, but that's risky junk; it's like buying a lottery ticket, only you can only buy a half dozen before your life is over; it's not just money you invest, but decades of your life.

You take existing needs, developing needs, and you find new ways to feed the need that already exists.  Make it cheaper, make it cooler, introduce it to a new audience that will appreciate it more, stand it on its head and introduce it for a different use.



> Sometimes a need goes unanswered for other reasons. Like a cheaper gas/oil alternative. Lots of people have come up with viable actually workable solutions to the internal combustion engine or the fuel needed to run them ... but just *where* is that technology? WHY isn't it being put to use? Saw a video years ago on the web where a guy had created a working hydrogen fuel that could replace petroleum fuel based products. Can't find it now... wonder why.



Because it didn't work.  Like the 200 MPG carburetor. 



> So depending upon the need and who has control of the present supply/demand of that need anything you got that can better it will more-n-likely be suppressed or filed away until there is no other alternative.
> 
> Lots of hard work indeed, lots of effort... sometimes... sometimes it pays off.



Just have to use your brains, that's all.

One of my friends, an astounding young woman photographer, is very successful.  She's a great photographer, don't get me wrong.  But that's gravy.  What really matters is that she had an important skill that most others do not.  From years spent as an information-gatherer for a university doing studies, she knew how to cold-call and talk to people and get them to give her information.  She knew how to network and make friends.  From her years as a military spouse, she had to establish networks of new friends every time her husband got transferred from one base to another.  She used that to reach out and make herself known as the person to go to for the family photos, for the graduation photos, for the wedding shots.  As a military family member, she had access to other military spouses and understood what they were missing by family being apart, how precious every moment was and why it needed to be documented with meaningful professional photographs.  That was her key, her power, her rare ability.  If she wanted to, she could package that expertise and sell it to other photographers - not how to use flash or how to do poses - but how to sell the need to have those family photos taken as often as possible, and to have them done professionally.  That's her skill, and she can use it (as she does) or package it and sell it, or partner with a company that could take her style of photography national.  Get it?  She's a good photographer - even a great one - but that's gravy.  She doesn't have to be great at that to be great at what she REALLY does.

So what do you do well?  What have you established an ability to do that most people don't have?  What have you traded the decades of your life learning how to do well? Figure out what that is; then figure out how to get people to pay you for that information; either for you to do it, teach others how to do it, or exploit it in a new way for their own benefit.  Think and grow rich.


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## MA-Caver (Apr 19, 2011)

Bill Mattocks said:


> So what do you do well?  What have you established an ability to do that most people don't have?  What have you traded the decades of your life learning how to do well? Figure out what that is; then figure out how to get people to pay you for that information; either for you to do it, teach others how to do it, or exploit it in a new way for their own benefit.  Think and grow rich.


What I do well there isn't too much of a market for it... maybe a small niche but that's about it... unless I cater exclusively to the "super-rich" ... the type of guys who pay $500-1500 a day (each) for the "once in a life time" hunting trips, a lot of folk would seek out those who would do it for free... guide for caves. Also I would have to make the "trip" really spectacular ... something that you couldn't get for free... which would lead to an inordinate amount of risk... the type seen in the movie "Sanctum" (if you haven't seen it then when you do you'll nod). Yet still... do-able... just have to get my foot in the door and keep it exclusive enough that no-one else can edge in on it. 

Other things I do well... :idunno: graphic art, photography and other right brain (?) types of ... err stuff.

Whatever it may be... I'm sure anyone could do well if they put their minds to it.


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## Big Don (Apr 19, 2011)

Of course there are fortunes yet to be made! The BIG IDEA doesn't need to be a GREAT LEAP FORWARD, Beanie Babies have sold over $SIX BILLION DOLLAR$ worth! Don't poo poo the ideas that are stupid on their face, i.e., The Pet Rock, The Snuggie, The Clapper...
Just because it's a stupid idea, doesn't mean it won't sell MILLIONS of dollars worth.


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## elder999 (Apr 19, 2011)

Big Don said:


> Of course there are fortunes yet to be made! The BIG IDEA doesn't need to be a GREAT LEAP FORWARD, Beanie Babies have sold over $SIX BILLION DOLLAR$ worth! Don't poo poo the ideas that are stupid on their face, i.e., The Pet Rock, The Snuggie, The Clapper...
> Just because it's a stupid idea, doesn't mean it won't sell MILLIONS of dollars worth.


 
Great Leap Forward," 
(_snicker!_ )

You're right, though, Don, the quick buck can be a fairly big buck, but big buck$, even million$, do not necessarily make a "fortune." I certainly wouldn't poo poo the Pet Rock, and especially not the Clapper......but, again I was speaking more of the method, which Bill and Bob have summarized rather succinctly-though, all too often I think that rather than "recognizing a need" (or, more correctly, _market_) one _creates_ one where one didn't exist before. 

In instances where one recognizes a market-say, for instance, the need to somehow keep carbon emissions emitted by burning coal from becoming atmospheric, one might set off on years of research trying to achieve this. Edison went through nearly 10,000 trials for his electric light bulb, using various materials as filaments, including horsehair, before he had a good product, and it wasn't only the filament that led to this, it was his having conceived of a centralized system of generation, as well as achieving a better vacuum than any of the other 20-odd inventors of incandescent light. 

Likewise, the various schemes for carbon filtration or sequestration have their own myriad hurdles-often, with ideas like these, it's more the invention of something ancillary or supportive of the main concept that leads to fruition, and not the thing itself.

 A good example of this is the plutonium device created by the Manhattan Project. They-that is the engineers and physicists tasked with developing the plutonium bomb-recognized about a year into the process  that they couldn't use a simple gun device, like they planned to with U-235. 

It took a physics professor named Seth Nedermeyer (there's a nerd name :lol: ) and another named Tolman to come up with the now familiar concept of "implosion" by supersonic shock waves from the detonation of bridged explosives-_crushing_, really, but something that hadn't been done before-a whole new science, that in the end led to the creation of a whole division at the laboratory-an increase in personnel by more than 1,000 at Los Alamos- breaking new ground on an entire slew of concepts that had never, or barely been touched upon before: explosive lenses, dynamic radiographics, high speed photography, and new techniques in machining and mathematics. 

This is really more about how the creative process works, and leads to more creativity and productivity. The same thing happened with NASA and the race to the moon. 

To reverse the process, and bring "fortune" back into it, imagine that Facebook is the bomb-the big money. Do you think Zuckerberg is the only one making money off it? What about all those ads that people are paying him for, how much business do they bring in for their owners? This is somehwat in keeping with one of Bill's posts:



			
				Bill Mattocks said:
			
		

> Rather, I like to look at trends as they are developing. It's almost never the first guys in who make the money. It is *the guys who figure out what they're doing, find ways to do it faster, cheaper, and more efficiently, and who figure out where the actual profit is.* Wash, rinse, repeat. You do that already.


 
Bill Gates and Microsoft have made lots, and lots, and lots of software developers rich, rather than driving them out of business, as so many seem to believe of him. Unlike Apple, which insisted on licensing fees from software developers, Gates charged none. Because of that, developers flocked to Microsofts operating system, encouraged by the prospect of making their own fortunes, while avoiding Apples. Seeing all the software that ran on PCs, the public flocked to Microsofts operating system and made Gates the worlds richest man. He never seemed to care how much money you made _off_ him, and directly or indirectly hes probably responsible for creating more millionaires than any other person in history. 

Again, as I said two years ago, one of the keys to getting rich is allowing others to prosper-it worked for Henry Ford and Bill Gates.


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## Bruno@MT (Apr 19, 2011)

Bill Mattocks said:


> Your ideas can't be just concepts, though.  That's where the real value you present is; you have to be the expert you claim to be.  Like talking about Bob and MT.  Trust me, he's learned a lot about how to build an online discussion forum and create a sense of community.  That's a commodity, baby.  That's expertise that is worth _beau coups_ bucks.  I could not sell that - nor anything to do with pie shops.  But Bob could sell what he knows.  No one is going to pay money to listen to ME talk about building an online forum; but they will pay Bob to talk to them about it.  He's sitting on a gold mine; he already put in the dues in the form of hard work and monetary investment.  Now he just has to find ways to put his expertise to work in new ways.  That's how to do it.



Not to pooh-pooh Bob's expertise here, but Bob is not alone. There are oodles of people with community building expertise. While those skills are not worthless, by themselves they are not rare. And MT is not that big a success that it sets Bob apart from others. The forum is fairly disorganized, and does not have a real focus. If it had, you'd expect the majority of the posts to be about the site topic. Axe the study and you lose more than half the traffic.

Every one of us has one or more areas of expertise in which we are more advanced than the average Joe. You, me , Bob, ... that expertise in itself is not automatically valuable. If Bob was really sitting on a goldmine, I think he'd have begun mining by now, or sold the mining rights 

Luck (getting a break) has more to do with it than skills when there are hundreds of people with similar skill sets. The 'Friends' cast were all virtual nobodies. And while some of them would maybe have gotten a decent career had they not been cast for their roles, some wouldn't. Take Matt Leblanc. He's not much of an actor and if it had not been for 'Friends' we would never have heard of him. He had a skill set, and managed to find the one 'Joey' shaped niche where he fit. Had he missed that audition he'd be one of the thousands of actors relegated to scraping by on commercials and background roles.


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## Cryozombie (Apr 19, 2011)

I'm gonna start a cult.

Who's with me?


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## elder999 (Apr 19, 2011)

Cryozombie said:


> I'm gonna start a cult.
> 
> Who's with me?


 

There is that, but don't call it a "cult." 

Stick with the idea that it's a "church," even a "Christian" one.

Make several layers of heirarchical progression, like in the Masons or Scientology.

Start with women-if there are women, the men will follow. 

Provide a place to live.

Delete your last post to avoid IRS prosecution.
,......never mind. :lfao:


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## Cryozombie (Apr 19, 2011)

But I think my Hook is that I'm gonna be honest and call it a Cult.

Let people know what they are gettin into for their money up front. 

We're gonna have Chicks and Guns and Firetrucks.


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## Bill Mattocks (Apr 19, 2011)

Bruno@MT said:


> Not to pooh-pooh Bob's expertise here, but Bob is not alone. There are oodles of people with community building expertise. While those skills are not worthless, by themselves they are not rare. And MT is not that big a success that it sets Bob apart from others. The forum is fairly disorganized, and does not have a real focus. If it had, you'd expect the majority of the posts to be about the site topic. Axe the study and you lose more than half the traffic.



Sure there are.  But none of them are capitalizing upon those skills properly.  They're all geeks in love with the communities they have built; or they're Guthy-Renker build-it-and-sell-it types.  They don't see all the places where their skill set fits.


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## Bill Mattocks (Apr 19, 2011)

Cryozombie said:


> But I think my Hook is that I'm gonna be honest and call it a Cult.
> 
> Let people know what they are gettin into for their money up front.
> 
> We're gonna have Chicks and Guns and Firetrucks.



Enter the Church of the SubGenius:

http://www.subgenius.com/


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## MA-Caver (Apr 19, 2011)

Cryozombie said:


> But I think my Hook is that I'm gonna be honest and call it a Cult.
> 
> Let people know what they are gettin into for their money up front.
> 
> We're gonna have Chicks and Guns and Firetrucks.



Well that's alright I reckon but... we're not going to have to kill ourselves later on down the road are we? And can we *leave* ANYTIME we want to?


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## Bob Hubbard (Apr 19, 2011)

I got offered $40k in 2007 for MT.
I turned it down.
The bottoms since dropped out of the forum market.  Glutted, Facebook, changes in habits, etc.
I've monetized MT as best as I can, but even with regular pushes, ad revenues are still below what they could be, MartialTalk tee-shirts ain't exactly selling like mad, and my last attempt at bringing in new sponsors at bargain-bin rates wasn't a success.

As to forum-building, I'm good. I've got some successes. But I've never been invited to speak at a forum builders convention. I never got around to writing a book on the topic (started to twice though). MT isn't a household word even in the martial arts niche.  So, modest success.    I am working on some expansion ideas refocusing heavier on the martial arts, especially with the departure of IKF, but it's going to take time, cooperation and heavy involvement of others, things previous expansions lacked and failed as a result.

I push my photography, but it seems unless boobs are involved, I can't get more than a dozen people a day to view my work. (A boob shot gets over 100 views, a landscape 10). Frustrating, when my goal there is to be seen as a competent shooter, and hired for do work.  I hear repeatedly my martial arts work is top notch, but can't seem to break out of the 'part-timer' booking rate.  It's frustrating.  

So, on my end, frustration, a dwindling cash reserve and a loss for what to do next freezes me.


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## Bill Mattocks (Apr 19, 2011)

Bob Hubbard said:


> But I've never been invited to speak at a forum builders convention.



*invited* ???

Never heard of the word.

Invite yourself.  

http://www.onlineprnews.com/news/12...vip-mixer-party-with-top-marketing-gurus.html

Consider trends.  Cities, counties, and states are now facing severe cash shortages.  Privatizing is coming fast, like it or not.  What city services could you provide that tap on your forum and community-building expertise and save the government organization money?  How could you create an interface between government and citizens that gives instant feedback so they don't hugely unpopular boneheaded moves in city council meetings - they know ahead of time that there is or isn't public support for it, etc?

As I previously mentioned, consider all the companies in your area that make products that have geek fans.  Look at their websites.  Do they have an online support forum?  If they do, I'll bet it's crap.  Ta-dah.  Get in there and demonstrate what it could be, sell your consulting services to build it out for them after explaining how it's going to benefit them and either save them money or build a rabid fan base that evangelizes their products far and wide.

Invited?  Nobody ever got invited to the get rich party.  The door is where you kicked a hole in the wall.


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## MA-Caver (Apr 19, 2011)

Well, if anything Bob... we love and appreciate you for hanging in there as long as you have, for continuing to believe in this site and us. You're awesome.

You could write a Forum Building for Dummies book... heh!


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