# Nerves / adrenaline? Psychological? Advice please



## red_coyote (Apr 30, 2010)

Hi,

Whenever I get into a confrontation (eg. scumbags, drunken folk, road ragers, whatever), I end up feeling a bit physically weak and slightly shaky.

It's not due to fear, or anger, so I guess it's either too much adrenaline or a psychological reaction to violence (or the possibility of).

Is this common?
Is there a simple way of overcoming it? It's not a good state to be in when there's a bad situation brewing.


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## Nomad (Apr 30, 2010)

Adrenaline is very common, and can easily produce the feeling you're describing as your body gets prepared for either violence or the necessity to flee from it.  Similar physiological responses frequently come _after_ the danger passes as well, as the body gets rid of the adrenaline by releasing cortisol.

It has nothing to do with fear or being cowardly, but is your body's natural response (trained over millennia from the point of view of both predator and prey) to danger that is not controlled by your conscious brain any more than your heart rate is.

The extent of the response varies from person to person, and from situation to situation.  It is possible to lessen the effects over time by deliberately placing yourself in positions that trigger the effect to some degree (for some, this could be sparring, for others, it might be giving a speech in front of an audience!).  In other words, by inoculating yourself somewhat to the stimulus that causes the response (preferably while keeping yourself in an otherwise safe environment).


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## zDom (Apr 30, 2010)

red_coyote said:


> Hi,
> 
> Whenever I get into a confrontation (eg. scumbags, drunken folk, road ragers, whatever), I end up feeling a bit physically weak and slightly shaky.



Me too. At least the shaky part.




red_coyote said:


> It's not due to fear, or anger, so I guess it's either too much adrenaline or a psychological reaction to violence (or the possibility of).



Correct. I once received a syringe shot of adrenaline: it was an enlightening moment to feel the effects of adrenaline while knowing without a doubt what I was feeling was purely chemical and had nothing to do at that moment with fear or anger.




red_coyote said:


> Is this common?
> Is there a simple way of overcoming it? It's not a good state to be in when there's a bad situation brewing.



Common? I'd say so, yea.

And it IS a good state to be in &#8212; if you learn how to channel that additional speed and power.

IMO, this is the value of competition and testing: if you can make it stressful enough that you get charged up with adrenaline, then you can learn to perform under those conditions and get experience and familiarity performing under those conditions.


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## Explorer (May 2, 2010)

It's at least a natural state to be in. Whether it's good or not depends on how you use it. If you can keep thinking clearly ... you can use adrenal stress response to your best advantage ... if you can't think ... well, good luck ....

Randori and free fighting can help with the physical side ... the psychological side is another story. I've been training all my life to handle the non-physical side of confrontations better. I've learned a couple of things ...

1. Conflict is not the enemy. Conflict is an opportunity to make positive change. 

2. Begin with the end in mind. <bow to Stephen Covey> As the confrontation unfolds you need to consider how you would like things to turn out and act accordingly.

3. If the attack does come ... welcome it. View it as yet another opportunity to make positive change.

Now, if I could only get myself into that headspace when someone flips me off on the highway.

Best Wishes,

Explorer


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## Aiki Lee (May 3, 2010)

Seems like a common response to me. The weakness may come as a result of crash after your body dumps all the sugar into the bloodstream, but hey I'm not a doctor. I just play one on tv.


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## Kyosanim (May 16, 2010)

red_coyote said:


> Hi,
> 
> Whenever I get into a confrontation (eg. scumbags, drunken folk, road ragers, whatever), I end up feeling a bit physically weak and slightly shaky.
> 
> ...



I have experienced this before myself. Keep in mind that despite feeling weak it can be an advantage. Once in a car accident I had it happen, and the whole thing was in slow motion because the adrenaline can speed up your perceptions. Just don't see red. One other time my friend and I were sparring with wooden weapons. I had a sword, he had spear, and we were really going at it. I just could not get past the reach of the spear and we kept going harder and harder. His movements were just so quick I could not block all the shots with sideways movements. Finally I managed to drop the blade and block one of his thrusts with the tsuba or guard of my sword and move in for the win. After words we were really tired, and everyone who was watching said we were moving so fast they had a hard time tracking our movements.
Point being there is no way I could have blocked that spear with the guard without the rush, or moved that fast. Just don't lose your head.


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## sgtmac_46 (May 18, 2010)

red_coyote said:


> Hi,
> 
> Whenever I get into a confrontation (eg. scumbags, drunken folk, road ragers, whatever), I end up feeling a bit physically weak and slightly shaky.
> 
> ...


 
Fight/Flight/Posture/Submit

It's our bodies evolved adrenal response preparation to deal with physical conflict. Elevated heart rate, vasoconstriction, tunnel vision, etc.

It's as bad a state as you might think.........the key is adrenal training where you can learn to train while in that state. 

What you experience as discomfort in that state is it's unfamiliar nature. If you train in that state you become more comfortable in it. It actually helps you once you understand it and learn to control it.


As a police officer i've been in that adrenal state quite a few times.  You learn after a while that it makes your reflexes sharper, it speeds up your response time, and actually gives you extra strength and pain resistence.  But you have to learn not to freeze up, which many folks do because it's an uncomfortable state to be in.  Adrenal training is key.


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## Bruno@MT (May 19, 2010)

sgtmac_46 said:


> As a police officer i've been in that adrenal state quite a few times.  You learn after a while that it makes your reflexes sharper, it speeds up your response time, and actually gives you extra strength and pain resistence.  But you have to learn not to freeze up, which many folks do because it's an uncomfortable state to be in.  Adrenal training is key.



It also inhibits the complex reasoning skills. It's hard making conscious decisions when the adrenalin hits. Almost everything you do will be the result of instinct and ingrained training.


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## Chris Parker (May 19, 2010)

We are constantly reminding our students that in a real situation they will experience an adrenal dump (as well as the endorphin release that comes along afterwards), and that that adrenal dump will have a number of effects. In short, we usually say that it will make you "stronger, faster, feel less pain". The point we also make to them is that the opponent will also have an adrenal dump... making them stronger, faster, feel less pain.

There are other effects, though, which we also go through, such as tunnel-vision (leaving you open to wide strikes and other attackers), a loss of higher brain functions (including the ability to form sentences), a loss of fine motor skills (such as intricate locks and holds, and fine targeting). In regard to the OP, another aspect is that it triggers your fine-twitch fibres, in preparation for whatever action is needed (specifically flight or fight). This doesn't mean that you're scared (as can be misinterpreted), just that you're getting ready for movement.

When it comes to the fight/flight/freeze responce (as well as posture and submit), there are a few factors to determine what will happen. The first thing is that you get an adrenal dump. Okay, we're there already. The next major factor is often distance. You (or the opponent) will be more likely to fight in a close distance (within about 6 feet), and more disposed towards flight from a greater distance (over 10 feet). Between those can be a grey area, and will come down to previous experience more than anything else. Freeze is what happens when you are within the "fight" distance, but have no prior experience or confidence in your fighting ability (in other words, there is no strong "fight" responce loaded into your unconscious responces, or you have a value system that does not include fighting ability, either you have unconscious programming that you shouldn't fight, or you don't truly believe that your training will work, etc). When it comes to posture or submit, they are animalistic responces (hard-wired into the subconscious on a genetic level), and are simple survival actions. Both simply seek to avoid danger and violence, the posturing to appear too dangerous to attack, and the submitting by appearing to not be a threat.

As a result, I feel that it is vital to not only train with adrenal-stress training, but also to understand the why's and wherefore's of such training. The majority of your training (if you are being realistic) should always have at least some component of adrenaline training involved. But you can't just train with adrenaline and hope that'll be enough. You need to train with the adrenaline, and then focus on pushing past the limitations as much as possible. For example to overcome the effect of having your vision tunnel, get yourself adrenalised, then focus on your peripheral vision. This way you will gradually limit how much your vision tunnels.


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## TigerLove (May 19, 2010)

Maybe you want to read my post / thread about this..hope will help you someway!

http://martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=84288


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## Chris Parker (May 19, 2010)

Sorry TigerLove, was that to me or the OP?


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## TigerLove (May 19, 2010)

No, to red_coyote, but when you mentioned, it would be glad for me to hear opinnion on my thread from you!


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## Chris Parker (May 19, 2010)

Had a quick read through, there's little I could add honestly.

Oh, and I hope red_coyote does come back to read it as well, although I'm not holding out a lot of hope. He made this (his only ) post the day he joined, came back the next day, and hasn't been back since.


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## TigerLove (May 19, 2010)

Well he knows what is the best for him. Hope he found a way to deal with stress!


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## sgtmac_46 (May 19, 2010)

Bruno@MT said:


> It also inhibits the complex reasoning skills. It's hard making conscious decisions when the adrenalin hits. Almost everything you do will be the result of instinct and ingrained training.


 
Absolutely. The mid-brain takes over. You only accomplish physically what you've trained enough to have installed as a conditioned response.

In the adrenal state you'll default to your highest level of mastered physical skills.


As for complex reason, it doesn't just inhibit complex reasoning...........it removes the reasoning part of the brain as the one who is in the driver's seat. The monkey is running the works in the adrenal state, while the complex reasoning brain is conducting a running mental commentary mostly devoid of any control over the body........or at least that's been my personal experience.

In the crisis adrenal situations i've been involved in, I felt like an outside observer watching what was going on. The result if you're trained properly is that the monkey does the job. The result for those who haven't trained properly is freezing up.


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## Mark Jordan (May 24, 2010)

It's a natural reaction.  Are you training in martial arts?  A boost in self-confidence can counteract that.


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## Laus (Jun 20, 2010)

Very normal, and can be an advantage if you know how to recognize it and work with it. Early in my training the thought of performing in front of people and being tested freaked me out, so that stress became helpful in learning how to control it.


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## Gaius Julius Caesar (Jun 21, 2010)

I've been in fight where I feel all that and I have been in them and felt pretty much nothing other than the contact of engaement.

 At 13 I had the worst dump ever (to me) and I almost froze. I had been in a nasty fight a month or so before and I think we both had an effect on each other (We were later friends and had a talk about this, he had the same response in his next fight).

 Anyways I get confronted by this big bastard and I flet the dump, i felt weak and I froze in place. Lucky for me he did not engage me.

 Later I flet like a coward, it really screwd me up, I thought I had lost it, I had been in many fights and up untill the aforementioned fight, I actually liked to fight, injuries and all I loved to take it to someone trying to intimadate or harm myself or mine. Man I thought I had a gift for fighting up till then.

 I talked to 2 people, my TKD Instructor and an Uncle of mine who had been a pretty well known hardass in his time.

 My uncle helped the most. "I feel the same thing everytime there is a build up, man I want to puke, ****, piss and fall out all at once, so I learned that is the time to go for it and then you forget all about it, time slows down and you focus on beating him down and dont feel his fist unless he gets you square."

 So the next time soneone made me feel like that I went right for them and ended up knocking out 2 of his teeth, breaking 2 ribs, bruised his balls and stomped on him as he rolled on the ground and begged me to stop.
 He went from acting like a stereotypical Ghetto thug, telling me how he was going to bust my face and sodomize me to becomeing a broken punk.

 It is a gift, it's just those who are not used to it wont see it as so because it can be so sickening and debilitating.

 The downside was for a long time, if you made me scared, I hurt you quick. Not good in polite society but very valuable in the crap Hood I lived in and the Hellhole of a school I went to.

 I can control it now, rather well but for a couple of years I just went with it.

  I am a beleiver in scenario training for this reason, to get people used to it as much as they can and to ID what is happening to you.

 Even someone like me or someone like JKS, who has to be brave as a matter of proffession still need this kind of training, you can lose it.


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## Gaius Julius Caesar (Jun 22, 2010)

Weird how you talk about something and then latter that day or week you come up against it.

 Last night I had a situation on my front lawn.

 Long story short it started with some punk peeling out and skidding out and driving fast right in front of my home. I have a 7 a 4 and a 1 year old and I care about my neighbors kids as well, lot's of kids on the street.

 Anyways I was outside when this happend, I wont get into to much more of the buildup but long story short one of his friends jumpd up in my lawn and came for me.

 I enterd in on him, we clinched up and he put his face against mine.
 I bit something, drove my hand upward on his chin untill his head was half back and as he pushed his head forward I put my finger into the inside corner of his eyesocket and pushed back as I enveloped and then locked up his arm in what we call Tiger lock as my right hand grabbed his windpipe and clamped down. I then gave him a headbutt at about half power and shoved him back.

 He was dumb enough to be calling the cops as my Lady was calling the cops.

 Im not an any trouble, neither is he, both of us did not press charges.

 I had no big adreinal dump before we engaged, but I was angry, controlled anger but angry non the less. I got adrenaline durring and after but no sickness, nervousness, non of it. 2 hours later I was still bouncing off the walls though.

 Another thing, I have been in fights where you kind of have a 2 minds thing going, one is focused on the phisical (like heated sparring) and the other on the surroundings and yes I have made weird observations, noticed irrelevent things while fighting and it all feels slowed down.

 The weird thing about last night is I had both of those, I was focusing on what was happening and what I was doing, the other part was worried that his friends werre going to jump in and hoping they don't, not out of fear of harm but more for fear of how I will have to escalate and not wanting them to make me kill one or all (I had the means on me and around me, I was armed and their were tools around me as I am fixing a truck.) The weird thing is I had another mind going as well, that part was agggression and vile meanness.

 I train hard, I train for nasty situations, we train as if we are going to war in our Dojo. We understand aggression and the emotions that come with it.
 All that I know and I don't want to change but I still felt very bad about it afterwards. I would do it again but I still felt bad for the kid (he's 20) when it was over and a bit disgusted with a part of myself that has served me well and kept me around, but non the less, I felt pity and remorse and I think I shoved him back insted of crushing his throat,taking him down or throwing him out of mercy.

 As much as I train, I dont want to fight any more, I have more than enough of that in the past. I train to protect me and mine.

 I kind of hope the guy learned a lesson about going at a man who is at his home.


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## Thesemindz (Jun 22, 2010)

Chris Parker said:


> We are constantly reminding our students that in a real situation they will experience an adrenal dump (as well as the endorphin release that comes along afterwards), and that that adrenal dump will have a number of effects. In short, we usually say that it will make you "stronger, faster, feel less pain". The point we also make to them is that the opponent will also have an adrenal dump... making them stronger, faster, feel less pain.


 
That's interesting. I always teach my students that the adrenal dump will make them dumber, slower, and less capable.

I'm not saying you're wrong, it _will_ make them more dangerous in other ways, which is of course the evolutionary purpose of the complex chemical reactions we're discussing, and you touch on some of that later in your post, I just think it's an interesting contrast of positions.


-Rob


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## Chris Parker (Jun 23, 2010)

I think the only part we really don't agree is on the "slower" part. An adrenaline dump will make someone "dumber", in the sense that the higher brain functions (conscious decision making, ability to form sentences etc) will be severly limited, and make someone "less capable" in that the fine motor abilities that many arts have in their teachings will also be unavailable under an large adrenaline dump.

All of this is because adrenaline and it's associated effects are based around essential survival skills/abilities, where (biologically, when escaping from the allegorical sabre-tooth tiger for example) what is required is speed, strength, and focus. In order to give focus, distracting aspects (the conscious mind "chatter" amongst other things) are taken away, as well as other aspects being heightened (such as a great focus on movement in your vision, although your vision also tunnels to focus on the immediate percieved danger in front).

When it comes to "slower", though, that kind of defeats the purpose of what the adrenaline is there for. It is a survival mechanism, and we wouldn't have survived very long if, as soon as we were in danger, we slowed down, couldn't reason or think, and lost the ability to perform actions.


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## Thesemindz (Jun 23, 2010)

Chris Parker said:


> I think the only part we really don't agree is on the "slower" part. An adrenaline dump will make someone "dumber", in the sense that the higher brain functions (conscious decision making, ability to form sentences etc) will be severly limited, and make someone "less capable" in that the fine motor abilities that many arts have in their teachings will also be unavailable under an large adrenaline dump.
> 
> ...
> 
> When it comes to "slower", though, that kind of defeats the purpose of what the adrenaline is there for. It is a survival mechanism, and we wouldn't have survived very long if, as soon as we were in danger, we slowed down, couldn't reason or think, and lost the ability to perform actions.


 
When I've experienced this effect in the past, it _did _make me faster. But if I didn't use that energy quickly, then I began to get lightheaded and clumsy, and my actions became sloppy and more difficult to control.

The adrenaline dump is not an isolated event. It takes place within a delicate chemical system which is constantly being re-regulated to account for changes in environment and intake. And while it may initially give you a burst of speed, or heighten your senses, or decrease your ability to feel pain, those chemicals will also cause you to crash within a matter of minutes, or even seconds, depending on how the situation evolves.

My point isn't so much that adrenaline dump isn't a powerful evolutionary tool, only that it has a variety of secondary effects which can even be detrimental to your ability to fight, which is what I teach my students. Many things which helped the human animal survive long enough to build cities are detrimental, and even dangerous, to the human in his modern habitat. 

I'd rather train myself to maintain calm as long as possible in a situation, and be experienced enough to handle the drugs when they kick in, then rely on them to save me. I'm not saying that's what you're teaching, only describing what I teach.

I don't think we're really in that much disagreement here, I just thought it was intereting phrasing.


-Rob


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## Chris Parker (Jun 23, 2010)

No, you're pretty much describing what we teach as well. We teach that the initial "dump" will have the "faster, stronger, feel less pain (for the attacker as well, by the way...)" effect, but we also talk about the endorphin release afterwards, the groggy effect that that can have (I typically use a famous story about Tokugawa Ieyasu there, which gives rise to the Japanese proverb "After the battle, tighten your helmet-strings"), and so on. And our training is geared towards being aware of these things, and then striving to supress the effects to remain calm (a mushin attitude, in Japanese systems) so that you can stay in control during the situation. So I think we are both simply describing different stages in the event. Cool.

One of the main reasons we emphasise the early aspect (the initial dump, resulting in the "faster, stronger" aspect) is that the adrenaline and it's associated chemical releases go to the fast-twitch fibres, getting you ready for immediate action. This results in the "nervous" feeling many get, the trembling hands that many associate with fear, and so on, so to alleviate the belief that it is actually fear when it is just the natural effects of adrenaline on the body, we explain what is actually going on.


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## Vulcan (Jun 23, 2010)

A lot of responses further illustrate the problems and effects of the adrenal gland.


But none state the obvious, natural and direct way of controlling adrenaline: 


zazen meditation.


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## Chris Parker (Jun 23, 2010)

Hmm, not so sure that I agree with you there... for one thing, control has been mentioned a few times, as well as education on what the effects of adrenaline really are, by myself and others (the mushin state refered to in the post directly above).

As well as that, zazen mediation? Not really ideal in the event of an adrenal surge.... "Za" refers to seated, for one thing, "zen" simply refers to meditation itself, and these are methods of gaining mental discipline, control, and more. But if you feel an adrenal surge when someone starts getting violent, sitting down and closing your eyes isn't exactly what I would advise....

Oh, and I rarely do this, especially with someone new, but you are just trolling, aren't you? I mean, you list your "primary art and experience" as 8th Level Vulcan Logic...


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## Vulcan (Jun 23, 2010)

Chris Parker said:


> Hmm, not so sure that I agree with you there... for one thing, control has been mentioned a few times, as well as education on what the effects of adrenaline really are, by myself and others (the mushin state refered to in the post directly above).
> 
> As well as that, zazen mediation? Not really ideal in the event of an adrenal surge.... "Za" refers to seated, for one thing, "zen" simply refers to meditation itself, and these are methods of gaining mental discipline, control, and more. But if you feel an adrenal surge when someone starts getting violent, sitting down and closing your eyes isn't exactly what I would advise....
> 
> Oh, and I rarely do this, especially with someone new, but you are just trolling, aren't you? I mean, you list your "primary art and experience" as 8th Level Vulcan Logic...




1. I specifically mean that constant meditation will help you control yourself in other situations. It's much easier to master the mind at rest, so yes...by sitting.

2. No, I'm not trolling at all. I just express my primary art  (temperance of the mind through objective reasoning and logic) through a well known fictional symbol, that of the Vulcan adept. I don't take myself so seriously as to feel the need to impress anyone on the internet. If you take me as a troll, you will be disappointed as I do have a lot to offer. 

But let's not focus on me and derail the thread. My apologies to the OP. Carry on...


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## Chris Parker (Jun 24, 2010)

Frankly, I wait to be convinced. But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

Zazen is seated mediation, done at a calm time, in a calm place, with no adrenal aspect whatsoever. So it is hardly the "obvious, natural, and direct way of controlling adrenline". The obvious, natural, and direct way is to experience an adrenal dump, and practice supressing it. And that is not zazen. Again, while zazen has many benefits (we use it a lot ourselves), it is not designed to control adrenaline. A mushin mindset, on the other hand, is.

As for your "not needing to impress anyone on the internet", this isn't anything to do with impressing anyone, but this is a martial arts forum. By letting people know what you actually train in, and how experienced you are, will let us know where you are coming from. Basically, saying that your system is "7th level Vulcan logic" would get you laughed off most other forums, and I see little reason it should be simply accepted here. If you have so much to offer, how are we to know that if you treat marital arts as such a joke there?

Oh, and martial arts have little to do with "objective reasoning and logic", as common sense and logic have little relation to combative systems. After all, if you are dealing with techniques dealing with the expunction of human life, we have gone beyond logic and reasoning, not to mention common sense. So, to get this out of the way, might I suggest a trip to the Meet and Greet forum so you can let us know what background you actually have, and any other information that can help us get to know you better? But mention of Vulcan logic as a martial art probably won't get much of a good reaction.


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## Vulcan (Jun 24, 2010)

Chris Parker said:


> Frankly, I wait to be convinced. But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.
> 
> Zazen is seated mediation, done at a calm time, in a calm place, with no adrenal aspect whatsoever. So it is hardly the "obvious, natural, and direct way of controlling adrenline". The obvious, natural, and direct way is to experience an adrenal dump, and practice supressing it. And that is not zazen. Again, while zazen has many benefits (we use it a lot ourselves), it is not designed to control adrenaline. A mushin mindset, on the other hand, is.
> 
> ...






Chris,


Please don't spend so much time focusing on me or arguing semantics. This is supposed to be the "friendly" martial arts forum, welcoming everyone from new firearms enthusiasts to third generation Hachidans.  While your encyclopedic knowledge of (dead) Japanese art, language and lore is impressive, your people skills leave a lot to be desired (in this instance, I've seen you be polite to others...perhaps they were "qualified" enough for you?). I respect you, and I would wish you to give me the benefit of the doubt, as you said you would. On your honour. 

If I am not acting like a troll, then do not treat me as such. If I don't fit your expectations, then say that. But why browbeat me and derail the thread? From this point forward, if you wish to discuss the etymology of logic and how it relates to fighting, then start a new thread or send me a private message, and I'll be happy to discuss it or debate it with you. As of now, it is you are being disruptive and rude, which defines a troll...not an individual's personal philosophy of the martial arts. I believe what I believe and I told you why. Your disagree. Fine. Let's leave it at that. Don't assume that your budo is valid and my vulcan is not, when they, in this day and age, are both products of a personal expression and not part of any current practical martial warfare. If you can imagine the methods are a 15th century Japanese then I can imagine the methods of a 25th century Vulcan. We can learn a lot from the imagination and be inspired by it. Am I really a Vulcan logician? No. Are you really a Japanese warrior? No. Can we learn from each other and be inspired by the experience? Yes.

I am brand new here, and some have already welcomed me in the respectful way and engaged in fruitful dialog with me. If you choose not to, fine. But do try and keep such sentiments to yourself, as they are not befitting of such a forum.

At some point, someone had to create something. All established arts were not based on ancient traditions.

Thank you.


Sincerely, 


-James


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## mook jong man (Jun 24, 2010)

:spock: - FASCINATING


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## Chris Parker (Jun 24, 2010)

Hi James (good to know your name here),

Without getting too much into it, your first post here struck me as rather trollish in that you inferred that experienced martial artists were ignorant of what you called "the obvious, natural, and direct" answer, when multiple people here (myself included) had mentioned a much more natural, obvious, and direct answer (scenario training based around handling an adrenal surge) a number of times. Your wording left no space for other answers, and that, combined with a frankly non-martial art are hallmarks of a troll. I will be very happy for you to prove me wrong, and hope that you do indeed become a valued member of this forum.

But when it comes to "dead" Japanese arts, well, no they're not. The very act of continuing them is a way to keep them "alive", so I'd disagree with that phrasing rather vehemently. Each and every koryu system I have encountered reference keeping the spirit of their system alive, denying anything that would relegate them to "dead" arts (such as Izumo Ryu, a truly dead system).

The established arts are based on hard-earned experience, bought in blood and sweat, death and pain. Not the creation of Gene Rodenbury (nothing against him, quite enjoy Trek myself, just that this is nothing to do with martial arts). I really have no problem with interesting discourse, in fact I quite enjoy it, but I find it difficult to reconcile any understanding of martial arts if your only experience is your "Vulcan logic".


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## Vulcan (Jun 24, 2010)

Chris Parker said:


> I find it difficult to reconcile any understanding of martial arts if your only experience is your "Vulcan logic".




I would too. But it is not. "Vulcan Logic" is not my "experience". It's my jovial self expression.



Damn it. I knew I should have put "Jedi Knight". Everyone love Star Wars martial arts so much better. I think because the are so flashy and not internal?:jediduel:



My the way, I apologize for the "dead" adjective. I figured that would be taken wrong, hence the parenthesis.  When I say dead, I mean archaic. I love some of the old styles too, as I am a longtime student of Japanese history, and also speak Japanese. I am a Soto Zen Buddist (why I propose zazen).My Japanese friends sometimes ask why I act like their grandpa.  

A recent article in Black Belt magazine echos my sentiment in an article comparing the Western approach to martial arts with the Eastern approach to gunfighting...dress up like a cowboy from the late 1800's and use weapons long since outdated. It is considered...um...a bit _different_ when a white guy walks around as a venerated master of grandpa's art.  I actually study a lot of living (current) traditions from Japan as well, such as Grabaka and Shooto, to name two. Both approaches have there place. 

Now back to the adrenaline problem. I did some more study and thinking about this last night, and what I failed to mention was the importance of visualizing the event that causes an elevation in adrenaline levels, and observe yourself and how you react in those situations while doing zazen. This may help. 

I said that it was "obvious" because I thought you all already knew about this technique. My apologies if I assumed too much of everyone's knowledge of internal practice.


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## Vulcan (Jun 24, 2010)

I just found "The Locker Room", and introduced myself there. Sorry for the thread derail, again. It takes me a while to get oriented.

Carry on...


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## Vulcan (Jun 24, 2010)

mook jong man said:


> :spock: - FASCINATING


:high5:

Good one!


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## shaolin-warrior (Jun 24, 2010)

Adrenal Stress is one of those tricky topics, because everyone experiences it uniquely. For me, any attempt at complex motor skills is out of the question. I am sure that that is why so many pro fighters take a round or so to settle down, to find their groove, if you will. I do know that for me, training adrenal stress is far different than being in the thick of things. In the dojo I am both confident and competent, the risks are minimal, mistake carry a less harsh penalty, one the streets, where mistakes can cost you your life, I am not so quick to engage.


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## Chris Parker (Jun 25, 2010)

Hi James,



Vulcan said:


> I would too. But it is not. "Vulcan Logic" is not my "experience". It's my jovial self expression.
> 
> That I understand. However I am sure you can understand how it is rather unusual (to say the least!) to claim it as your martial art, as it exists only in the realm of science fiction. Cool?
> 
> ...


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## sgtmac_46 (Jul 8, 2010)

Thesemindz said:


> That's interesting. I always teach my students that the adrenal dump will make them dumber, slower, and less capable.
> 
> I'm not saying you're wrong, it _will_ make them more dangerous in other ways, which is of course the evolutionary purpose of the complex chemical reactions we're discussing, and you touch on some of that later in your post, I just think it's an interesting contrast of positions.
> 
> ...


 
And adrenal dump will make them dumber, as Parker stated, in the sense that they lose higher functions.  Adrenaline, however, makes one much quicker.  Trained responses work much faster under adrenaline.


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