# I'm now confused about shin toughening



## soccer50 (Jun 13, 2003)

First off, I just wanna say that I have felt the shins of an average person and that of a pro muay thai fighter. There IS a difference, in that the MT fighters shins are harder

BUT...Then i come upon this 


> First, you must realize that a conditioned shin is one with deadened nerves. The shin is already hard and will unlikely get much harder. The key is to deaden the nerves so that you wouldn't feel the pain upon impact. However, you must also realize that you should not damage the shin bone while trying to deaden the nerves. This can be done only by practicing on the Thai pads and bags. The Thai pads and bags are softer than your shin bone while hard enough to damage the nerves on the skin above your shin bone with repeated impact. This process can take a while depending on how hard you train and how frequently you train. You must accept that in the beginning, it will be painful. You've just picked one of the most demanding sports in the world. There will be pain to go with it. This is only the beginning. The first time an opponent lands a hard Thai kick on your legs, you will get a wake up call more painful than shin conditioning. Mentally tell yourself that this is the initiation process. In time your shins will be properly conditioned. There are ointments that may alleviate some of the pain. Use them as needed. But understand that no oitment will make the process painless.



I know that a certain amount of nerve damage is done but is shin conditioning a myth or is it real?


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## theletch1 (Jun 13, 2003)

With the limited knowledge that I have managed to garner thus far I have come to believe that conditioning any part of the body is as much mental as it is physical.  While I understand that some nerve "deadening" is most likely neccesary to conditioning any specific part of the body, I believe that it is just as important to train your mind to "shut off" those pain receptors to greater and greater increments of pain.  I can guarantee that there are those more learned and experienced in this than I am but I just wanted to give you my angle of attack on it.


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## sweeper (Jun 14, 2003)

that isn't entirly true..  Yes the shins of a pro mauy thai fighter aren't realy any harder than those of a normal person's, but they are denser or thicker. If you increase the load on your skeleton it will get stronger, weight trainers skeletal structure tend to be stronger because of this (you tendons are attached to your skeleton)..  Also I think growth harmone in your system will make your skeleton grow in the same manner it will make your muscles grow..  Maybe I'm off base on this but the above is true to the best of my knowledge..  But of course hitting anything with any part of your body repeatedly will deaden the nerves and you will have reduced pain sence in that region.


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## MartialArtist (Jun 14, 2003)

> _Originally posted by soccer50 _
> *First off, I just wanna say that I have felt the shins of an average person and that of a pro muay thai fighter. There IS a difference, in that the MT fighters shins are harder
> 
> BUT...Then i come upon this
> ...


Bones are bones.  You can't make bones become like diamond or carbon steel no matter how much you train.  The only difference is that athletes usually have more bone density (due to diet and training).  However, bones are bones, and they feel the same.  It's like comparing oak and walnut.  One may be denser than the other, but it's still just as "hard" as each other.

There are too many factors and don't try to generalize such a broad group.

Sweeper, you are correct.  However, the HGH secreted from your system is minimal, and does not have a lot of bearing.  Studies on HGH and muscle growth are sketchy at best but generally point in the same direction.  Testosterone is also released when working out and that's the stuff that people are looking for.  Your skeletal system can't grow technically after they fused.  Lifting weights will not make you shorter (despite the myth) but they will not make you that much taller (minimal secretion).  Your bones will not grow.  They can't grow that much thicker either.  They can become denser though and I forget the reason, but I doubt HGH has that much to do with it.  Don't believe those supplement companies that claim that their HGH product does this and that and makes your penis or breasts larger.


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## soccer50 (Jun 14, 2003)

Im not positive on what is the difference betweet density and hardness. The more dense something is the harder it is, right?


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## MartialArtist (Jun 14, 2003)

> _Originally posted by soccer50 _
> *Im not positive on what is the difference betweet density and hardness. The more dense something is the harder it is, right? *


True, until a point.  But it does not mean that muay thai practitioners have the "hardest" bones.  Hell, muay thai practitioners don't even have the densest bones (which goes to Olympic powerlifters and Olympic lifters (snatch, clean and jerk)


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## soccer50 (Jun 14, 2003)

So....What are good ways of making the shin bone stronger/denser/tougher ? Without long term negative effects?

Hows heavy bag training, swimming, and running?


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## MartialArtist (Jun 18, 2003)

> _Originally posted by soccer50 _
> *So....What are good ways of making the shin bone stronger/denser/tougher ? Without long term negative effects?
> 
> Hows heavy bag training, swimming, and running? *



Good Diet (take in at least 200% daily recommendation of calcium but no more, vitamin D, magnesium)

Lots of rest

Squats, Olympic lifts, deadlifts, ankle raises (shin muscles exercise) which are performed by just walking on your heels.  If that gets too easy, or if it's already easy, try looking online for some exercises.  I personally work them out enough from the compound lifts.

Well, it depends on your view of negative effects.  Deadening the nerves on your shin may sound negative.  But just to be safe, I would wait till your body has totally grown, and until your bones have fused.  I wouldn't want to damage my body like that at a young age like the pro fighters in the ring in their mid 20s or so do.


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## Shinzu (Jun 19, 2003)

i believe that you must condition you body in any art, but when it comes to the point of killing you nerves beyond repair i think it's gone too far.

there is a limit that your body can withstand.  if you refuse to realize that limit you will see the long term effects later in life.


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## Humble artist (Jun 20, 2003)

You can train your kicks and all,but for don´t mutilate them for god´s sake.
I do not think that specific "hardening" of shins has any practical application.

Do you play soccer?     A great game it is.
That´s one of the better/safe ways to condition yourself,including shins.

If you really want to invest in bones (too) 
I strongly suggest you to weightlift.


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## soccer50 (Jun 20, 2003)

Soccer is the best. Rough sport and players are freakin fit.

Well, Im getting quite a few weight lifting replies. I gueses I'll do heavier traingin in weights


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## Ceicei (Jun 24, 2006)

Humble artist said:
			
		

> You can train your kicks and all,but for don´t mutilate them for god´s sake.
> I do not think that specific "hardening" of shins has any practical application.
> 
> Do you play soccer?     A great game it is.
> ...



I agree, soccer is probably one of the best way to go.  They're tough, good endurance, and take a lot of kicks to the shins as well.

- Ceicei


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## trueaspirer (Jun 24, 2006)

I am a soccer player (sort of) and I do a lot of stuff with my shins (mostly by accident) and I know that my shins are definately tougher than when I started 6 years ago.


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## Nevada_MO_Guy (Jun 24, 2006)

soccer50 said:
			
		

> I know that a certain amount of nerve damage is done but is shin conditioning a myth or is it real?


Shin Conditioning 101: This article sounds right.

_*So It's all about deadening nerves?*
Not entirely. As stated above it is also a psychological process. Another thing to help condition shins is to condition the muscles that are surrounding the shins. These muscles are usually worked out from the intense amounts of running and skipping a Thai boxer will do. The Thai style of running, whereby you strike the road/floor with the ball of your feet and stay on your toes, works the Calf muscles which in turn builds the muscle defenses on the side of the shin. As is the same with skipping. _


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## KOROHO (Jun 24, 2006)

soccer50 said:
			
		

> First off, I know that a certain amount of nerve damage is done but is shin conditioning a myth or is it real?


 
It is real, but it comes with a tremednous price.  An MT figthers career is very short and then thier legs are crippled.

The shin conditioning - that starts off with some lighter thumping and then builds up to kicking trees, etc., kills nerved, fractures the bone and all sorts of not good things.


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## tradrockrat (Jun 24, 2006)

there is absolutely no reason to condition your shins like a MT fighter unless you want to be a MT fighter - it is an intentional sacrifice of your health to achieve a greater chance of winning a sport.  It has nothing to do with a well rounded, long lasting benifit to a Martial Artist.  While I was kickboxing competitively, I never did any specific "shin conditioning" exercises.  Running and training kicks (thai kicking shields)were all I counted on to toughen my legs for compitition because I had no desire to be a professional or be hobbled for the rest of my life - a virtual guarantee if you go pro.


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## still learning (Jun 25, 2006)

Hello, There are a few guys in our home town...that learn to kick each other shins...today there shins are all black and blue from hitting the shins on a regular basis....they feel no pain if you hit it with a hammer....they are also in the twentys......

When they get alot older....they will pay for it..in pain and suffering, but that's the way their Dad taught them.

If make sense kicking bags to toughen the shins and proper diet and leg excerises.

If you are going into kicking boxing or thai boxing...and very young...you can risk it to toughen your shins.

We roll coke bottles on the shins, sometimes hitting the shins with bottle to toughen/facture the shins..let it heal..crack them more and let the bones rebuild..same theory when you brake bones..they become stronger/thicker...I think?   We do not do this anymore...it really hurts..

When young..body is tough...heal faster....when you hit the 50's and up...you will pay for all the damages to have done to your body...toughen the hands,shins, and so on....Aloha

PS: Remember...the head needs the most protection....the body can take alot of punishment...you head cannot.......Aloha


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## DeLamar.J (Jun 26, 2006)

I condition my shins by doing drills. There are all types of good kicking drills you can do with a partner. The best way to condition your body is with another body. For your arms do 3 star drills, and for your shins you can do pendulum kicks. Or blocking drills. Have your friend kick at you and then go shin on shin.


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## Jimi (Jun 26, 2006)

Still Learning, Thanks for your input, I used to do the coke bottle thing years ago as well. As a side note, that is the old style coke bottle, tall glass bottle with the rounded divits, they simulate a light kank to the shin. If a bone is stressed enough it can rebuild so to speak and be more dense and hard. It is not an absolute and many women in MT nowa days do not want the bumpy shins. I am not concerned about how shapely my legs are , just that they are healthy enough to get me around. Going shin to shin is not something I personaly look to anymore. PEACE


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## BUAKAWFAN808 (May 27, 2007)

The Easiest Way to kill your nerves on your shin is to grab a dough roller and run it up and down your shin (the bone part) or the ram your shin to another persons shin, but i'd go with the dough roller.

its only a suggestion because it worked for me.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





GOOD LUCK FRIEND!


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## Em MacIntosh (May 27, 2007)

I used to do "shin sets"sort of like forearm sets. (soto uke, gidan barai, uchi uke).  You and a training partner connect shins in a similar manner and you build up as you go.  High, low, high (or low, high, low) without dropping the leg, then switch sides.  I liked them because they were fun, and you could go harder or lighter as you wanted and that it simulated connecting shins when sparring.


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