# Okinawa Karate



## terryl965

i was wondering who on this board has study actual Okinawa Karate and who was your Teacher.

To answer my own question it would have been Master Drill Instructor W.R. Stoker Sr. for 19 years, every once in a while I will combine some of it to my TKD in a sparring matched and gey ask where did you learn that it is not part of TKD.
Terry


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## Makalakumu

terryl965 said:
			
		

> i was wondering who on this board has study actual Okinawa Karate and who was your Teacher.
> 
> To answer my own question it would have been Master Drill Instructor W.R. Stoker Sr. for 19 years, every once in a while I will combine some of it to my TKD in a sparring matched and gey ask where did you learn that it is not part of TKD.
> Terry


 
I'm curious as to why, after so long in one art, that you switched to another?


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## arnisador

Isshin-ryu under one of George Insley's students; Goju-ryu under Vinson Grace; Uechi-ryu under Charles Earle, one of George Mattson's students. No higher than brown belt!


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## jujutsu_indonesia

terryl965 said:
			
		

> i was wondering who on this board has study actual Okinawa Karate and who was your Teacher.


 
These days Goju is no longer my main art, but my main sensei Ben Haryo learned a lot from Bryson Keenan sensei who is a student of Hokama Tetsuhiro from Okinawa.

Haryo sensei is also a student of Roy Hobbs sensei, a multi-talented martial artist, who has Dan ranks in Okinawan Goju in additions to his Menkyokaiden in Kokodo-ryu Jujutsu and Ryoi Shinto-ryu.

You can read more about Hobbs sensei in www.dentokanhombu.com


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## terryl965

upnorthkyosa said:
			
		

> I'm curious as to why, after so long in one art, that you switched to another?


 
The question is simple back in the 80's early on I was looking for a hard core place to train and the gym I found was TKD, I was not looking for a Mcdojo type gym and they where ebvery place out there.
Terry


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## Sensei Paul Hart

I am Shorin Ryu under Hanashiro Shinyei, a personal student with him for 32 years. I am still a student as well. I also studied with a few other Karate people from Okinawa.

Paul Hart


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## twendkata71

*I studied Matsubayashi Shorin ryu under the direction of Kyoshi James Driggs in southeasten Ohio. Also I have trained with Hanshi Frank Grant. I worked out at camp with Carl Davis Uechi/Pangai noon ryu, Dave Majic Shorin ryu(?). *
*I no longer train in Shorin ryu,but that is my Okinawan karate experience.*


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## SFC JeffJ

I put some serious thought into Uechi Ryu, but the Bujinkan dojo was closer, and the instuctor had more experience.

Jeff


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## Drac

I studied Matsubayashi Shorin Ryu for a brief time at the Okinawa Karate Academy that was located in Bedford Ohio..Since I cannot spell the Sensei's name correctly I will not attempt it..


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## The MMA kid!

this may be out of the thread-subject but if someone could breif me the differences between Okinawa Karate and Kyokushinkai Karate I would much appreciate it. ( I am aware of the difference of roots, but not in practice differences.)


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## twendkata71

*Kyokushinkai has some Okinawan influences because Oyama studied Goju ryu for a time and included some of the kata. On the other side he studied the Japanese Shotokan with Funakoshi. Funakoshi changed his karate from the Okinawan Shuri te and Naha te to the version we have today to make it acceptable to the Japanese. As most of us already know. So, Kyokushinkai has a lot of Okinawan influence. *


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## twendkata71

*What organization was your sensei at that time affiliated with? WSKF, AKF, WMKF,ASKA? If he was affiliated with the WSKF then I could look up the name.*






			
				Drac said:
			
		

> I studied Matsubayashi Shorin Ryu for a brief time at the Okinawa Karate Academy that was located in Bedford Ohio..Since I cannot spell the Sensei's name correctly I will not attempt it..


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## jujutsu_indonesia

The MMA kid! said:
			
		

> this may be out of the thread-subject but if someone could breif me the differences between Okinawa Karate and Kyokushinkai Karate I would much appreciate it. ( I am aware of the difference of roots, but not in practice differences.)


 
kyokushin is modern sport karate, they have full-contact competitions, and much of the kyokushin training are geared towards competitions. Okinawan Karate training mostly emphasizes traditional Kata training and applications of Kata for self-defense. So, one is for sport training, the other is for preserving traditions. Both are real good and usable for self-defense situations.


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## TimoS

twendkata71 said:
			
		

> *Kyokushinkai has some Okinawan influences because Oyama studied Goju ryu for a time and included some of the kata. On the other side he studied the Japanese Shotokan with Funakoshi. Funakoshi changed his karate from the Okinawan Shuri te and Naha te to the version we have today to make it acceptable to the Japanese. As most of us already know. So, Kyokushinkai has a lot of Okinawan influence. *



Wasn't Oyama's Goju teacher Yamaguchi? And as I understand it, he taught a more japanese version of Goju (not that I would be able to tell the difference)


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## Haze

Studied Goju Ryu under Sensei Greg Tearney and Sensei James Coker in the Syr. NY area.


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## SFC JeffJ

Oh, and I got up to 3rd Kyu in  Matsubayashi Shorin Ryu  back in the early eighties.  Would have kept it up but my family moved.

Jeff


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## twendkata71

No it was not Yamaguchi. It was another person. The name is listed on one of the kyokushinkai web sites.








			
				TimoS said:
			
		

> Wasn't Oyama's Goju teacher Yamaguchi? And as I understand it, he taught a more japanese version of Goju (not that I would be able to tell the difference)


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## TimoS

twendkata71 said:
			
		

> No it was not Yamaguchi. It was another person. The name is listed on one of the kyokushinkai web sites.



Ok, thanks. I've been misinformed in that case


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## Drac

twendkata71 said:
			
		

> *What organization was your sensei at that time affiliated with? WSKF, AKF, WMKF,ASKA? If he was affiliated with the WSKF then I could look up the name.*


 
I'll get back to you with that information as it is buried in a file box...


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## twendkata71

*From one of the Kyokushinkai web sites I found out that Oyama's Goju ryu teachers was a fellow Korean man name nei su Cho. I believe that this man trained with Yamaguchi.  The web site also stated that Oyama recieved his 4th dan in Shotokan under Funakoshi before joining the Japanese army.*


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## Brandon Fisher

My Okinawan Karate background is mainly Shorin Ryu - Shorinkan under Renshi Tom Ward and his sensei Kyoshi Eddie Bethea Jr.  Kyoshi Bethea is a direct student Shugoro Nakazato of Okinawa.  

This past weekend I had a chance to spend all day Saturday training  with Kiichi Nakamoto of Okinawa which to say the least was a real treat.


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## rmclain

terryl965 said:
			
		

> i was wondering who on this board has study actual Okinawa Karate and who was your Teacher.
> 
> To answer my own question it would have been Master Drill Instructor W.R. Stoker Sr. for 19 years, every once in a while I will combine some of it to my TKD in a sparring matched and gey ask where did you learn that it is not part of TKD.
> Terry


 
Hi Terry,

Who did your father study from in Okinawa, and which camp in Okinawa did he study?

I'm curious because I'll be in Okinawa with the 3rd Batt, 12th Marines at Camp Hanson in Okinawa in Novermber for two weeks.

R. McLain


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## terryl965

rmclain said:
			
		

> Hi Terry,
> 
> Who did your father study from in Okinawa, and which camp in Okinawa did he study?
> 
> I'm curious because I'll be in Okinawa with the 3rd Batt, 12th Marines at Camp Hanson in Okinawa in Novermber for two weeks.
> 
> R. McLain


Master McLain I'll look that up for you and send it later today.
Terry


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## keri-waza

i study isshinryu my instructor is under grandmaster harold mitchum , who is first generation student of tatsou shimabuku.


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## keri-waza

organization is uika


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## Brother John

Four, almost five, years in GoJu Ryu Karate-Do, Under 8th Dan Sam Price.


Your Brother
John


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## Brother John

terryl965 said:


> The question is simple back in the 80's early on I was looking for a hard core place to train and the gym I found was TKD, I was not looking for a Mcdojo type gym and they where ebvery place out there.
> Terry



HONESTLY: Not trying to second guess you here Terry! but with 19 years in a system shared with you by your father, why not simply continue w/that art and START your own "Hard-Core place to train"....non-McDojo???
That's a lot of time in one art.


Your Brother
John


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## Al Martin

Hello Folks My Name is Al Martin and Okinawan Shorin Ryu Karate is my way.


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## twendkata71

*Welcome Mr. Martin. Are you the same Al Martin that is affiliated with Paul Hart?  *








Al Martin said:


> Hello Folks My Name is Al Martin and Okinawan Shorin Ryu Karate is my way.


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## Al Martin

Is that a godd or bad thing?


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## twendkata71

*No not bad. Just wondering if you were the same person that I saw on the web site. He seems to have a good Okinawan karate program. I studied Matsubayashi Shorin ryu for a while and I have studied several others since then. *


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## terryl965

Brother John said:


> HONESTLY: Not trying to second guess you here Terry! but with 19 years in a system shared with you by your father, why not simply continue w/that art and START your own "Hard-Core place to train"....non-McDojo???
> That's a lot of time in one art.
> 
> 
> Your Brother
> John


 

Brother John great question, here is the best answer I could give although I had 19 years in it most was from child to young adult. I was 23 fresh out of college got a job teaching and coaching in california and when I ask my father about training he said find someone hard that you like and train with him and I did GM Kim was a great instructor and gave me so much knowledge and in all fairness he called in Korean Karate so I thought it was a different style of Karate only years later did I fully understand I was in TKD and by then it was too late I was hooked.
Terry


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## exile

terryl965 said:


> GM Kim was a great instructor and gave me so much knowledge and in all fairness he called in Korean Karate so I thought it was a different style of Karate only years later did I fully understand I was in TKD and by then it was too late I was hooked.



But you weren't necessarily wrong in thinking that, Terry---there's a school of thought which holds that TKD really _is_ Korean karate (as clearly expressed in the title and content of S. Henry Cho's great book on TKD etc etc etc...


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## terryl965

exile said:


> But you weren't necessarily wrong in thinking that, Terry---there's a school of thought which holds that TKD really _is_ Korean karate (as clearly expressed in the title and content of S. Henry Cho's great book on TKD etc etc etc...


 

I know just answer Brother Johns question
Terry


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## terryl965

Exile you made a point about Korean Karate being the same as TKD or so close to itm can you explain what you mean please.
Terry


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## exile

terryl965 said:


> Exile you made a point about Korean Karate being the same as TKD or so close to itm can you explain what you mean please.
> Terry



Hi Terry---really, my comment was just an aside in this thread; I'm responding to your query, but I don't want the orignal question that started the thread to be derailed. All I was getting at is that the core techniques of TKD, as reflected in the poomsae, are essentially the same as those of the karate styles that the original kwan founders brought back from Japan with them. Lee Won Kuk (Chung Do Kwan founder), Ro Pyong Chik (Song Moo Kwan) ,Yoon Pyung In, (Chang Moo Kwan founder), General Choi Hong Hi (Oh Do Kwan founder and main propagator of TKD as a military combat system) and others learned Karate in Japan and brought it back to Korea; Hwang Kee (Moo Duk Kwan founder) build his hyungs around Itosu's katas, especially the Pinan forms, and so on. S. Henry Cho's 1968 classic manual simply identifies Taekwondo as Korean karate---the local adaptation in Korea of the fighting strategies and techniques that grew out of the Okinawan synthesis of Chinese combat systems with local fighting methods, travelled to Japan with Funakoshi and others, and then to Korea where it developed its own local character---but still, as Cho insists, essentially Karate. It's become something of a cliche that there are Korean striking arts which actually _identify_ themselves as karate by the names their founder gave them---Tang Soo Do and Kong Soo Do (differing by how Japanese `kara' is translated), and so on. We even have two different Moo Duk Kwan martial arts, one calling itself TKD and one calling itself by one of those Korean translations of `karate', but so far as I know---I could be very wrong on this, IGWS---they are technically essentially the same, at least the way Richard Chun presents MDK in his books. I know there are people who disagree with this assessment of TKD; my comment was just based on the content of the TKD hyungs, which, even after the Pinans were replaced by the Palgwes and the Palgwes by the Taegeuks in the colored belt series, still contain huge chunks of the original Okinawan/Japanese technique sequences---and, as Simon O'Neil strongly argues, have essentially parallel bunkai (or whatever the appropriate Korean translation of this word in this sense would be). 

That's really all I was getting at---that there is a very strong case to be made that the core technical content of TKD puts it in comfortably in family of closely related fighting systems that go by the name karate, but that there are Korean variants, distinct from Okinawan (which has its own notable variants), and Japanese (same again). I myself was curious to know what was the particular aspect of the difference between TKD and Okinawan karate that the guy you mentioned in your first post picked up on?

Does this get at what you were asking?


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## terryl965

exile said:


> Hi Terry---really, my comment was just an aside in this thread; I'm responding to your query, but I don't want the orignal question that started the thread to be derailed. All I was getting at is that the core techniques of TKD, as reflected in the poomsae, are essentially the same as those of the karate styles that the original kwan founders brought back from Japan with them. Lee Won Kuk (Chung Do Kwan founder), Ro Pyong Chik (Song Moo Kwan) ,Yoon Pyung In, (Chang Moo Kwan founder), General Choi Hong Hi (Oh Do Kwan founder and main propagator of TKD as a military combat system) and others learned Karate in Japan and brought it back to Korea; Hwang Kee (Moo Duk Kwan founder) build his hyungs around Itosu's katas, especially the Pinan forms, and so on. S. Henry Cho's 1968 classic manual simply identifies Taekwondo as Korean karate---the local adaptation in Korea of the fighting strategies and techniques that grew out of the Okinawan synthesis of Chinese combat systems with local fighting methods, travelled to Japan with Funakoshi and others, and then to Korea where it developed its own local character---but still, as Cho insists, essentially Karate. It's become something of a cliche that there are Korean striking arts which actually _identify_ themselves as karate by the names their founder gave them---Tang Soo Do and Kong Soo Do (differing by how Japanese `kara' is translated), and so on. We even have two different Moo Duk Kwan martial arts, one calling itself TKD and one calling itself by one of those Korean translations of `karate', but so far as I know---I could be very wrong on this, IGWS---they are technically essentially the same, at least the way Richard Chun presents MDK in his books. I know there are people who disagree with this assessment of TKD; my comment was just based on the content of the TKD hyungs, which, even after the Pinans were replaced by the Palgwes and the Palgwes by the Taegeuks in the colored belt series, still contain huge chunks of the original Okinawan/Japanese technique sequences---and, as Simon O'Neil strongly argues, have essentially parallel bunkai (or whatever the appropriate Korean translation of this word in this sense would be).
> 
> That's really all I was getting at---that there is a very strong case to be made that the core technical content of TKD puts it in comfortably in family of closely related fighting systems that go by the name karate, but that there are Korean variants, distinct from Okinawan (which has its own notable variants), and Japanese (same again). I myself was curious to know what was the particular aspect of the difference between TKD and Okinawan karate that the guy you mentioned in your first post picked up on?
> 
> Does this get at what you were asking?


 

Exile in all my years between Okinawa karate and TKD has anybody been so elaborate in there beliefs and the similaritys between them Great Job.
Terry


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## exile

terryl965 said:


> Exile in all my years between Okinawa karate and TKD has anybody been so elaborate in there beliefs and the similaritys between them Great Job.
> Terry



Hey Terry, thanks for the kind words---but really, a lot of this stuff has come from some of the guys now working on kata/hyung application, and a lot from my Instructor, whose lineage is Song Moo Kwan and who has been thinking about the wider connections of SMK for quite a bit. I like thinking about TKD this way because it makes me really connected to the rest of Asian martial arts... anyway, thanks again---like, we all share a common platform...


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## Al Martin

Yes, Paul and I are Good friends, with similar views on Karate though sometimes we may disagree on somethings most of the time we agree or at least agree to disagree!!

--Al Martin


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## Al Martin

If you go back further to the Chonji kata of General Choi's Tae Kwon Do you will find a part of the Old Channan Kata. From what I understand Tae Kwon Do is Funakoshi's Shotokan Blended with the Kicks of Taekyon by General Choi in 1945 to form Tae Kwon Do. So my thought is yes Korean Karate. The story I was to is that General Choi was once a house servant for funakoshi while he went to school in Japan. That is how General Choi learned Okinawan Karate!


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## exile

Al Martin said:


> If you go back further to the Chonji kata of General Choi's Tae Kwon Do you will find a part of the Old Channan Kata. From what I understand Tae Kwon Do is Funakoshi's Shotokan Blended with the Kicks of Taekyon by General Choi in 1945 to form Tae Kwon Do. So my thought is yes Korean Karate. The story I was to is that General Choi was once a house servant for funakoshi while he went to school in Japan. That is how General Choi learned Okinawan Karate!



Hi Al---yes, that could very be---but it's not just that! The Pyung Ahn hyungs that were widely performed in the early Kwans that came together to form TKD under presure from the Korean defense ministry in the mid 1950s are none other than the familar Pinan/Heidan forms from familiar karate styles. The Palgwes and even the Taegeuks are basically rearrangement of familiar Shotokan kata (funny, today I was showing parts of some of the Palgwes to a student of mine, a Shotokan dan practitioner, and she kept saying, `Hey, we have that exact sequence in [such and such kata]').

And as far as taekkyon is concerned, you might want to take a look at Stan Henning's authoritative survey of the state of traditional Korean martial arts in the first issue of the 2000 volume of _Journal of Asian Marital Arts_, where he discusses the term `taekkyon' and shows that this term is based on erroneous interpretations, in early premodern Korean manuals of physical training and combat methods, of the meaning of certain Chinese ideograms.  The correct rendition of the item isn't taekkyon, which seems to have a connection to the modern Korean tae `foot', but _takkyon_, `push the shoulders', about which Manning says `the term originally may only have been meant to describe a specific... technique to put an opponent off balance.' Takkyon appears to have been effectively suppressed by the Japanese in the 19th c.; taekkyon is an essentially modern discipline with no demonstrable connection to anything in Korean (pre)history. Bear in mind that Manning , a respected martial arts historian with degrees from the University of Hawaii, has based his conclusion on an exhaustive perusal of the full set of documentary records we currently possess on the topic---the full set of combat technique manuals published in Korea along with contemporary historical chronicles such as the _Koryo History_ publishhed in 1451, which contains material going back to the 10th century,  and the _Encyclopaedia of Illustrated Martial Arts Manuals_ published by Yi Dok Mu in 1790---itself incorporated extensive material form still earlier Chinese sources, an important resource since apparently a huge proportion of Korean combat techniques have Chinese sources, not surprisingly. Mannings authoritative overview, BTW, concludes with the somewhat bleak assessment that `traditional [Korean] martial args... appear to have been almost entirely abandoned by the beginning of the twentieth century'. He rubs the point in that `the evidence does not allow us to say, as some claim, that the traditional military skill, subak, was directly related to _taekwondo_ or that "_taekwondo_ is a martial art independently developed over twenty centuries ago in Korea", citing a very commonly repeated bit of legendary history from a web site on TKD.  His conclusion---supported by what looks to me like the most exhaustive survey of the surviving documentary evidence to date---is that `Taekwondo, for the most part,... appears to be a post-Korean War product, developed primarily from what the Koreans call _tangsudo_ (karate) introduced during the period of Japanese rule.' The tradition Korean martial arts are but a vague memory and taekwondo a symbol born in the cradle of modern Korean nationalism...'

There's no question that something called taekkyon (very likely based, as Manning notes, on a Korean folk etymology of the last century) existed in the early 20th century as a combat system and that some of the Kwan founders practiced it, to one degree or another. But there's no evidence tying it to any ancient indigenous martial art of Korea. The vast weight of the evidence---especially the actual technical content of TKD---makes it clear that TKD is... well, karate as practiced in Korea.


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## exile

PS: you could say that the moral of all this historical stuff so far as Terry is concerned is that, if it's correct, then in going from Okinawan karate to TKD, Terry has really only shifted his practice from one karate style to another, kind of like a practitioner of Shurin Ryu who starts studying Goju Ryo---not such a radical change after all---neighboring branches of the same tree, maybe?


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## terryl965

exile said:


> PS: you could say that the moral of all this historical stuff so far as Terry is concerned is that, if it's correct, then in going from Okinawan karate to TKD, Terry has really only shifted his practice from one karate style to another, kind of like a practitioner of Shurin Ryu who starts studying Goju Ryo---not such a radical change after all---neighboring branches of the same tree, maybe?


 
I would agree just a different branch.
Terry


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## exile

terryl965 said:


> I would agree just a different branch.
> Terry



Terry---glad that you also see it that way! Something like Okinawan to Wing Chun or Kempo, now, that seems really, seriously different---that Wing Chun chain-punching stuff is very pretty when it's done right, but it seems _really_ different from how the karate styles approach close-range combat. 

But, as Miles said in a different thread and a different context, it's all good, eh?


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## twendkata71

*There are a lot of similarities between Okinawan Goju ryu karate and Wing chun gong fu. The rooted stances, many of the blocking techniques.  *


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## exile

twendkata71 said:


> *There are a lot of similarities between Okinawan Goju ryu karate and Wing chun gong fu. The rooted stances, many of the blocking techniques.  *



Hi twendkata71---you have any urls for web clips of Gojo ryu? I've seen a fair number of Wing Chun clips but can't remember any featureing GJ...


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## Brandon Fisher

twendkata71 said:


> *There are a lot of similarities between Okinawan Goju ryu karate and Wing chun gong fu. The rooted stances, many of the blocking techniques. *


Yep there is so much influence from when Miyagi Sensei studied in China


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## twendkata71

*I will look up the web sites. I can not remeber them off hand. If you go to the Dentokan web site they have video's of Goju ryu kata.*
*Master Roy Hobbs 10thdan Seido kan shorin ryu, 8th dan Goju ryu certified on Okinawa and Japan.Also 9th dan Jujitsu.** demonstrates the kata. He spend close to 20 years on Okinawa and Japan studying karate and jujitsu. He has been studying the martial arts for close to *
*50 years. One of the few people (non asian) with such high rank certified on Okinawa and Japan.*
* One of his affiliate web sites has more video clips of him doing kata. If you right click and save target as you can download the kata video's.*






exile said:


> Hi twendkata71---you have any urls for web clips of Gojo ryu? I've seen a fair number of Wing Chun clips but can't remember any featureing GJ...


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## twendkata71

*If you go to the link page on the Dentokan web site, click on the link for. *
*Chris Barons kata site at the University of Kent. Then go the the kata page and click on the Dentokan Goju ryu section it has most all of the Goju ryu kata video's. *


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## exile

twendkata71 said:


> I will look up the web sites. I can not remeber them off hand. If you go to the Dentokan web site they have video's of Goju ryu kata.
> 
> Master Roy Hobbs 10thdan Seido kan shorin ryu, 8th dan Goju ryu certified on Okinawa and Japan.Also 9th dan Jujitsu demonstrates the kata. He spend close to 20 years on Okinawa and Japan studying karate and jujitsu. He has been studying the martial arts for close to
> 50 years. One of the few people (non asian) with such high rank certified on Okinawa and Japan.



A _true_ grandmaster, in other words! It's great that someone like that is the one demonstrating the GJ katas. 



twendkata71 said:


> One of his affiliate web sites has more video clips of him doing kata. If you right click and save target as you can download the kata video's.



Terrific, I'll that. Many thanks for the info on Gojo Ryu!


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## rmclain

terryl965 said:


> I would agree just a different branch.
> Terry


 
I'll disagree on this one.  While it is true that the early kwans were instructing requirements from Okinawan karate curriculums it is difficult to argue that TKD today is synonymous with Okinawan karate.  For the most part this changed in the 1960's.  

Today, you can place a group of students training in a classroom wearing the same uniforms, and pick out which students were from TKD and which were from Okinawan karate.  There are definite "stylistic" differences.  Someone that has studied both arts should know this.  Even someone with no martial arts training could probably spot this, but probably wouldn't have a martial arts vocabulary to describe the difference.

R. McLain


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## terryl965

rmclain said:


> I'll disagree on this one. While it is true that the early kwans were instructing requirements from Okinawan karate curriculums it is difficult to argue that TKD today is synonymous with Okinawan karate. For the most part this changed in the 1960's.
> 
> Today, you can place a group of students training in a classroom wearing the same uniforms, and pick out which students were from TKD and which were from Okinawan karate. There are definite "stylistic" differences. Someone that has studied both arts should know this. Even someone with no martial arts training could probably spot this, but probably wouldn't have a martial arts vocabulary to describe the difference.
> 
> R. McLain


 

Today yes you would be able to tell the true differences, but years ago they where in fact real ximilar and alot of Masters back in the 60 and 70 called it Korean Karate and they where in fact similar to each other. Maybethe stances was not as wide or the knww bent as much but they where similar with the instructors I had. Master Kim was from Kirea and was trained in Okinawa and Korea maybe that is why he tought is so closely.

Master Mc Lain you are right with today influences between the Tae Guek and the Chon Ji patterns as well with the patterns of Palgwe anyone xould see the differences but back in the early year they where so similar and the way it was tought.

Just my opinion, with that and a dollar you could get a cup of coffee, of course it would be a cheap cup.


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## shoshinkan

Sensei Paul Hart said:


> I am Shorin Ryu under Hanashiro Shinyei, a personal student with him for 32 years. I am still a student as well. I also studied with a few other Karate people from Okinawa.
> 
> Paul Hart


 
Yeah ok Paul (or is it Al or Matt?), pull the other one as it has bells on it..................


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## searcher

Brother John said:


> Four, almost five, years in GoJu Ryu Karate-Do, Under 8th Dan Sam Price.
> 
> 
> Your Brother
> John


 

Not to digress to far back ion the posts, but I have fought with some of Mr. Price's students.  They are always a very pleasant group to be around.   And they fight pretty good.


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## MJS

_ATTENTION ALL USERS:

_Please, keep the conversation polite and respectful.

-Mike Slosek
-MT Super Moderator-


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## twendkata71

*Yes, be polite and respectful. *
*I think what is going on here though is that there has been floating around information about Paul Hart and his lineage. There has been serious acusations about weither or not his lineage is legitimate. I have no idea and it is not any of my business.*


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## shoshinkan

I do apologise for any percieved rudeness, 

if the mod's would like to contact me I can of course explain why im being frosty with member Paul Hart.


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## twendkata71

*Doesn't bother me. I know about his reputation. He has been booted off of several other groups and boards. *


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## terryl965

shoshinkan said:


> I do apologise for any percieved rudeness,
> 
> if the mod's would like to contact me I can of course explain why im being frosty with member Paul Hart.


 
Shoshinkan we understand sometime but we do have to control what we would like to say. Personal feeling need to be in line with all the rules of this board. If you feel you need to ecplain there is a section called Horror stories and you can post it there.
Terry L Stoker


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## terryl965

twendkata71 said:


> *Doesn't bother me. I know about his reputation. He has been booted off of several other groups and boards. *


 
I appreciate your comment and as always you have said it in a tasteful way thanks twendkata


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## shoshinkan

Fair enough im happy to admit I stepped over the lines re forum rules, 

it wont happen again.


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## Sensei Paul Hart

twendkata71 said:


> *Doesn't bother me. I know about his reputation. He has been booted off of several other groups and boards. *



 Hello good people, I am sorry that I have forgotten to address this group. I did not get "booted" I choose to leave these groups and asked to be removed or removed myself. Hello Al Martin and thanks for your comments, to you as well Twendkata. Some of you probably already know this, other may want to listen to see a bit about what is "true" in the world of Karate today. I am a member of the Matsumura Shorin Ryu Karate Hozon Kai, problem is, my name is not "Paul Hart" or anything like that. I am a Sensei and my name is Paul, however the screen name is fictitious and while the history of this person was mostly made up, there was good reason for it. My apologies to the real Shinya Sensei  who I did study with for a time. Most of the history of "Paul Hart" was taken from my past, but also from a few others input. Why would I do this you may ask. The reason is, in just around 3 years I have achieved ranks from Nidan to Hachidan and three certificates for Soke from the illustrious Karate groups in both America and Japan. I did this while claiming a false name and a teacher with a grossly misspelled family name and even a misspelled given name. I know as do most that Karate organizations are a joke, but I did it to show the "Karateka" and those who did not know that this is true. You can get rank from just about any organization without ever meeting or testing, like most have that exist out there. I started this project three years ago to show the crap that exists and it was huge success. We had people who actually did meet with us, either me or a stand in for me. Nobody ever asked to see my Karate. Mr. Martin has been a member of the group and knew all to well that the state of Karate in America is a joke. We got guys out there who are real needers, meaning they need more training, more heart or more skill. If this upsets anyone, I am truly sorry, as they probably fit into this group. Unless a Sensei has very bad health, they should be easy to pick out. A real Sensei has conditioned hands from punching a Makiwara, they have the muscles formed to correctly execute the techniques of Karate with speed, power and focus. They continue to train daily to keep their skills at the proper level for the rank they claim. If they don't they are poor Karateka and needers as posted above. Which are each of you reading this? If you are true Karate, I welcome you with a kindred spirit, if you are one of the needers, strap on your white belt and lets correct your training and make Karate what is once was, a life protection art for Matsumura and the Peichin to use to protect the Okinawan King. I have discontinued the use of "Paul Hart" or "Sensei Paul Hart" and will be going back to my original screen name. I have never posted my real name online nor will I. I teach children and adults to never post your real information on line and this would mean I cannot practice what I preach if I were to do this. As always, if any want to test my abilities in Karate, email me and I will explain to you over the phone how we can meet and you can test my Karate. If you practice the Shuri style, you live in the shadow of Sokon &quot;Bushi&quot; Matsumura. You can either make his memory a good thing, or continue to weaken a great art and great Man's memory.  Merii Kurisumasu Akemashite Omedetou.     Good Day All,  Paul


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## twendkata71

*I see Paul, or whatever. It is a strange way to do things, but to each their own. When you were posting, you were showing some disrespect to other stylist. Wouldn't you agree that courtesy and respect are the cornerstones of true karate. That is besides strong waza. I agree that makiwara training is essential and you can definetely tell by looking at a karateka's hands to tell if they are training properly.*

*I remember the flame posts on Cyberdojo between Daisy and yourself. Saying that one style of karate is the only true karate is a bit closeminded. I know the difference. All that really matters is what you show on the deck.  Why would you accept false dan menkyo if they were worth nothing. I know that there are too many paper mills out there, but doesn't this lead to more misconception in the public eye, if you go around and accept such things.*

*As for my philosophy, respect is earned not given. If you disrespect me, I will not respect you, as for the statements that I made. I have never met you so I could not judge for myself. What is the real name of your sensei? I , as many others was just wanting to do some research on your background. Going around misrepresenting yourself is deceitful. Like you stated, if you are a true karateka then it will show on the deck, when you do your kata, and or kumite. It will show in your kihon.*
*What are your thougts on Matsubayashi Shorin ryu, and Seito Matsumura Shorin ryu of Philip Koeppel?*


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## twendkata71

*One more thing Paul. Don't you think that posting a false image of yourself on a dojo web site for prospective students is a bit immoral and fraudulent? Misleading others and your students is just wrong. *
*You should think more of your students. *
*Don't be suprised if you get sued for fraud. *
*As for me I don't care what you do. But, it does look bad for karate doing such things.*


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## Brandon Fisher

Twend,
You took the words right out of my mouth.  I agree 110%.


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## Sensei Paul Hart

I havent taught in a number of years, except some classes for safety, not Karate. I usually teach only up to 5 students at once, so it is easy to explain to them. Also, we do not teach children Karate and I have had no students under the age of 16 when I did teach. Your comment about accepting rank makes sense but I didn't accept it, because it was not in my name. Kind of shows what rank is worth out there, doesn't it? There are no Dan ranks in my style of Karate. Therefore I do not possess a rank. 

About my teacher, why does it matter? My Sensei always said that the clothes(belt) were not what made the warrior. The history of my training is for my students, and them alone. If I learned from Joe the bum down the street, and I am able to defeat you easily, does it make my fighting art worth less? I believe Matsumura said that we should not make a shrine to a teacher, but instead to value the art. It might have been deceitful to make up a story, but it is also deceitful for people to promote in an association that has no business promoting or to promote an individual who never trained with you. Daisy is a joke, she complains about her teachers, but continues to study and train people in a system she has determined to be a lie. Is that not the same as telling people that it is okay to lie? I did not explain myself to debate. I have no one to answer to except the people in my group I respect. It makes no difference to me if others have problems with the methods I have used to prove that 99% of Karate out there is fake. If people want to prove me wrong, I am all for it. Gentlemen, this is my last post. I have stopped by my own choice posting on other boards. I do not wish contact with what my research has uncovered. Have a good life people. To be honest, if you or one of your teachers founded their own system based on training with who knows what, I have little interest in your opinion. If anyone in your system is a "soke" I have no interest in your opinion. I do not think my style is the only style, but I do not think that all the styles that are made up and keep getting made up should not be considered Karate styles. If that means I have a close mind, then so be it. If I call a joke a joke, am I close minded? Truth is what counts, and the truth I see is on the floor of the dojo.

If you would like my opinion on a specific art, please contact me personally. I will not give a public opinion.


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## shoshinkan

well take care Paul, my regards to Al and Matt.

as you say truth is all that counts eh.


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## twendkata71

*He won't state who his real teacher was. I am starting to believe that he never trained in Japan/Okinawa. Probably made that up as well. Who knows, can't get a straight answer out of him.*


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## twendkata71

*Oh, and for his comments about "Real Karate"*
*"When real fists meet, real flesh, thats real karate" Ed Parker.*


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## Brandon Fisher

When people are evasive about things thats when I begin to not believe them at all.  Truth is I think its a case that has been thought up over the years but I may be wrong.  But since he will not answer things I won't force the issue.


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## twendkata71

*He actually emailed me back and gave me a straight answer. Once you cut through all of the BS, he doesn't sound bad. But, the hard part is getting a straight answer. I wished him peace. Left it at that.*


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## Brandon Fisher

twendkata71 said:


> *He actually emailed me back and gave me a straight answer. Once you cut through all of the BS, he doesn't sound bad. But, the hard part is getting a straight answer. I wished him peace. Left it at that.*


Ok I will do the same based on your word.


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## shoshinkan

so what was the straight awnser, we are all interested to know that?


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## Sensei Paul Hart

twendkata71 said:


> Well, his screen name is still Paul Hart, but he said that he just going to go by Paul.
> Thats just what the karate community needs more crazies. Remember Count Dante? Nutty karate instructors makes the arts look like a joke. And there are already too many false karate "Masters","Soke's",etc. out there. Like that Kenpo native american guy that is using some sort of indian/mason rank of 29th degree, now. When you have too many 10th degrees, I guess you have to raise the bar. Eh.
> Paul Hart also stated that one organization gave him an 8th degree. Something in his post also stated that he went from ni dan to nana dan in 3 years just by applying to some of these organizations. Neat trick huh?



Just goes to prove my point and convinces me I am correct in my methods. Bye now.


----------



## Jade Tigress

*Mod Note

Attention All Users:

Please keep the conversation polite, respectful, and refrain from fraud-busting.

Pamela Piszczek
MT Sr. Moderator*


----------



## twendkata71

*So, youre saying that if we find someone out to be a fraud then we are not to say anything?*
*I most of us are repectful, and considerate. *
*I will do my best.*


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## shesulsa

twendkata71 said:


> *So, youre saying that if we find someone out to be a fraud then we are not to say anything?*
> *I most of us are repectful, and considerate. *
> *I will do my best.*



Hello, twendkata71.

I'll refer you to the rules on this:



> MartialTalk and its staff are not in the business of endorsing or validating rank. Claims of rank made by practioners are theirs and theirs alone. MartialTalk does not make any warranty to the validity of such claims and does have an "anti" fraud busting policy.



If members care to direct question and debate to another member, they may invite them to debate in The Great Debate forum.  We ask members to refrain from libelous and defamatory comments as well.

Please also consider removing the itals and bolding in your posts - in netiquette, bolding is considered to be "yelling" and itals are for *strong* emphasis.

If anyone requires any further clarification on this matter, please feel free to PM any senior staff member (Sr. Mod, Super Mod, Asst. Admin, Admin) or start a thread in the support forum.

G Ketchmark / shesulsa
MT Assist. Administrator


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## terryl965

twendkata71 said:


> *So, youre saying that if we find someone out to be a fraud then we are not to say anything?*
> *I most of us are repectful, and considerate. *
> *I will do my best.*


 
twedkata we are only saying please reframe yourself in this section, the great debate is the place to voice opinion or facts that you might believe to be honest concerns. Let remember we would like everyone to feel welcome. But we also would like people to argue in the right forums as well. Thank you for all your help. The great debate section is the place to bring up others creditials.
Thank you
Terry Stoker
Senior Moderator


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## twendkata71

_I only use the bold so that I can see what I am typing better. Not yelling in any sense. I don't get excited about discussions to the point of yelling. If I were yelling, I would Ital all my works. Some times I will do this not yelling but to put a strong emphasis on what I am saying. Sorry for any offense._


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## Kacey

twendkata71 said:


> _I only use the bold so that I can see what I am typing better. Not yelling in any sense. I don't get excited about discussions to the point of yelling. If I were yelling, *I would Ital all my works*. Some times I will do this not yelling but to put a strong emphasis on what I am saying. Sorry for any offense._


Thanks for taking the bold out; it's much easier for most of us to read non-bolded text.  I would, however, like to point out that this entire post was italicized.    You generally have very relevant comments to make; however, I often find it difficult to read bolded and/or italicized print, and appreciate your changing your posts to not be bold or italic.  I understand completely using either as emphasis, and do so myself.  If you're having trouble reading the print on the screen in the default font, you might consider increasing the font size while typing, and then selecting the entire text and returning it to the original size (2) when you're done.


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## twendkata71

I will try that. Back to posting about karate topics.


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## twendkata71

With all of that behind us. How about we get back to discussions about Okinawan karate. 
How many members use the bubishi as a guideline and aid to their training? I have used the bubishi to decifier several movements in kata.
Most of the great Okinawan masters had a copy passed down to them. They felt it was of great importance. What do you think?


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## searcher

Have considered using it, but I have not read the Bubishi yet.   I am thinking that I may have to do that.


I agree, back to the subject at hand.


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## Brandon Fisher

I actually need to get a copy.


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## twendkata71

The copy that I have is the one by Patrick McCarthy. I wanted to get the George Alexander one, just to compare. There are original copies (in Chinese and Japanese only) on ebay. The man that is selling them is an American that lives on Okinawa and I think he gets them from the Shureido store in Naha city.  Barnes & Nobel sell copies of the McCarthy one.


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## Brandon Fisher

twendkata71 said:


> The copy that I have is the one by Patrick McCarthy. I wanted to get the George Alexander one, just to compare. There are original copies (in Chinese and Japanese only) on ebay. The man that is selling them is an American that lives on Okinawa and I think he gets them from the Shureido store in Naha city. Barnes & Nobel sell copies of the McCarthy one.


Thanks


----------



## D.Cobb

terryl965 said:


> i was wondering who on this board has study actual Okinawa Karate and who was your Teacher.
> 
> To answer my own question it would have been Master Drill Instructor W.R. Stoker Sr. for 19 years, every once in a while I will combine some of it to my TKD in a sparring matched and gey ask where did you learn that it is not part of TKD.
> Terry


 
I have just started, in the last 6 months, training in Meibu Kan Goju Ryu. My teacher is an Italian gentleman named Clemente Christobel, and he trained under Master Yagi, the founder of Meibu Kan, in Okinawa.

To see the differences in the katas I have learned to the ones I am learning now, I am totally gobsmacked!!

And the physical changes, in such a short time.... It is not an aerobically challenging style, but even in 6 months I am fitter and so much stronger.

--Dave


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## terryl965

D.Cobb said:


> I have just started, in the last 6 months, training in Meibu Kan Goju Ryu. My teacher is an Italian gentleman named Clemente Christobel, and he trained under Master Yagi, the founder of Meibu Kan, in Okinawa.
> 
> To see the differences in the katas I have learned to the ones I am learning now, I am totally gobsmacked!!
> 
> And the physical changes, in such a short time.... It is not an aerobically challenging style, but even in 6 months I am fitter and so much stronger.
> 
> --Dave


 
Glad you are finding it to your liking


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## jtbdad

I began studying Matsubayashi Shorin-Ryu in the late 70's.  My instructor was Papa Joe Hayes (who recently passed)  I studied a couple of different things such as Iron Tiger Kung Fu, Kenpo (at the Jay T. Will School) and Shuai Chiao,  I was on a Judo team for a while but eventually returned to the Okinawan arts studying Shorinji Kempo from Dr. Jenkins and returning to a friends MSR school.  (Bryan Dickerson)  

For the fellow who asked earlier in the thread about the Shorin Ryu associations, Papa Joe was ASKA with Sensei's Clark, Keller and Hixson.  Dr. Jenkins (a physician) studied somewhere on the West Coast and as far as I know no longer teaches.  

In case you can't tell I believe in up front disclosure.  LOL

It is a pleasure to meet you all.


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## exile

jtbdad said:


> I began studying Matsubayashi Shorin-Ryu in the late 70's.  My instructor was Papa Joe Hayes (who recently passed)  I studied a couple of different things such as Iron Tiger Kung Fu, Kenpo (at the Jay T. Will School) and Shuai Chiao,  I was on a Judo team for a while but eventually returned to the Okinawan arts studying Shorinji Kempo from Dr. Jenkins and returning to a friends MSR school.  (Bryan Dickerson)
> 
> For the fellow who asked earlier in the thread about the Shorin Ryu associations, Papa Joe was ASKA with Sensei's Clark, Keller and Hixson.  Dr. Jenkins (a physician) studied somewhere on the West Coast and as far as I know no longer teaches.
> 
> In case you can't tell I believe in up front disclosure.  LOL
> 
> It is a pleasure to meet you all.



Likewise, jbtdad!

 You might consider a more general post on the Meet-and-Greet forum; that way you'll kind of get to introduce yourself to the whole forum at once. 

Happy posting!


----------



## terryl965

jtbdad said:


> I began studying Matsubayashi Shorin-Ryu in the late 70's. My instructor was Papa Joe Hayes (who recently passed) I studied a couple of different things such as Iron Tiger Kung Fu, Kenpo (at the Jay T. Will School) and Shuai Chiao, I was on a Judo team for a while but eventually returned to the Okinawan arts studying Shorinji Kempo from Dr. Jenkins and returning to a friends MSR school. (Bryan Dickerson)
> 
> For the fellow who asked earlier in the thread about the Shorin Ryu associations, Papa Joe was ASKA with Sensei's Clark, Keller and Hixson. Dr. Jenkins (a physician) studied somewhere on the West Coast and as far as I know no longer teaches.
> 
> In case you can't tell I believe in up front disclosure. LOL
> 
> It is a pleasure to meet you all.


 

Glad to have you here and looking forward to your input.


----------



## terryl965

twendkata71 said:


> The copy that I have is the one by Patrick McCarthy. I wanted to get the George Alexander one, just to compare. There are original copies (in Chinese and Japanese only) on ebay. The man that is selling them is an American that lives on Okinawa and I think he gets them from the Shureido store in Naha city. Barnes & Nobel sell copies of the McCarthy one.


 
I have nevr seen the Patrick McCarthy one but have seen the George Alexander, so what comparision are you speaking of maybe we can exchange with each other


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## jtbdad

exile said:


> Likewise, jbtdad!
> 
> You might consider a more general post on the Meet-and-Greet forum; that way you'll kind of get to introduce yourself to the whole forum at once.
> 
> Happy posting!




Hey a hometown guy.  I have a home in Westerville!  What do you teach at OSU?  (I'm an Ohio University alum and student)  Most of my family are Buckeyes.

Your Dojang; is that the gentleman that has the school out on West Broad Street?  

John


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## wade

From page one on the original question, my instructor was Msgt Owen McDonald. He was with 5th SFG and was the NCOIC of the Ft. Bragg TKD training facility in 1975/76. He said I was training in Okinawan Karate. He said his instructor was Ezio Shimmbuko (SP). Now, ya gotta remember this was 39 years ago, my memory is bad and I don't even know if my instructor is even still with us, haven't seen him since I got out in 77. Some where in the late 70's or early 80's I competed in a tournament in Tacoma Washington and I have a picture of me getting my trophy from someone with the same last name. Interesting, neh?


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## exile

jtbdad said:


> Hey a hometown guy.  I have a home in Westerville!  What do you teach at OSU?  (I'm an Ohio University alum and student)  Most of my family are Buckeyes.
> 
> Your Dojang; is that the gentleman that has the school out on West Broad Street?
> 
> John



Hi JohnI teach linguistics (specifically, syntax, mathematical foundations of linguistics and computational); have been there since 1988... almost 20 yearshard to believe. You're OU? So you must have lived in Athens for a bit, eh?

My instructor is Allen Shirley, who is sort of the honorary chief instructor at Little Star in Hilliard and is now running the Trudo dojangs (Master Darrell Trudo, 6th dan TKD, 3rd dan Hapkido, died recently and very unexpectedvery, very sad; he and Mr. Shirley were business partners for many years; they both shared a Song Moo Kwan lineage as senior students of Gm. Joon Pye Choi). The gentleman you're thinking of is Gm. Choon Mo Yang, who started in Columbus in 1970, and whose dojang is very traditional Ji Do Kwan.

There is a fair amount of martial arts activity in Columbus these daysnice to hear from another Columbusite! The fact is, there are a goodly number of Ohioans on MT...


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## twendkata71

I am sorry to hear about Master Trudo. He was a great martial artists. I met him a few times. Nice all around guy. As far as the Shorin ryu guys go. I trained with Kyoshi Jim Driggs in Stewart Ohio. I also trained with Hanshi Frank Grant at camp.


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## exile

twendkata71 said:


> I am sorry to hear about Master Trudo. He was a great martial artists. I met him a few times. Nice all around guy. As far as the Shorin ryu guys go. I trained with Kyoshi Jim Driggs in Stewart Ohio. I also trained with Hanshi Frank Grant at camp.



Yes, he _was_ a great guy, twendkata. What happened was, he was afflicted with sickle-cell anaemia, but it went `underground' for a long time, and a lot of people had no idea. By all accounts, he was very fit, with a very healthy lifestyleso the TKD community here was completely stunned. It's a very, very insidious kind of illness.


----------



## rmclain

wade said:


> From page one on the original question, my instructor was Msgt Owen McDonald. He was with 5th SFG and was the NCOIC of the Ft. Bragg TKD training facility in 1975/76. He said I was training in Okinawan Karate. He said his instructor was Ezio Shimmbuko (SP). Now, ya gotta remember this was 39 years ago, my memory is bad and I don't even know if my instructor is even still with us, haven't seen him since I got out in 77. Some where in the late 70's or early 80's I competed in a tournament in Tacoma Washington and I have a picture of me getting my trophy from someone with the same last name. Interesting, neh?


 
Eizo Shimabukuro taught in Kin-Cho, Okinawa just across the two-lane hwy (Hwy 329) from USMC Camp Hansen Gate 1 for about 20 years.  I assume your instructor was in the US Army unless he cross-pollinated from the USMC.   So, maybe your instructor was in Okinawa for awhile?   Eizo Shimabukuro moved his school to ~1/2 mile North of Kin-Cho, where he teaches today.  I met him at the Tuttle Bookstore in Chatan-Cho, Okinawa last November 2006.  He was bringing in a box of some books he wrote to sell at the bookstore along with his form videotapes.

R. McLain


----------



## wade

Mr. Mclain, thanks, that sounds about right. You just gave me more information on that than my instructor ever did. I was in the Corp from May 67-May 70. Got out right after I got back from Nam. Started TKD while in the Corp. Was bored and went into the army about 4 months later. Was in the Army at JFK Center for the next 7 years. I met MSgt McDonald there. He had about 3 tours in Nam and had spent a time in Okinawa. The only instructor he ever mentioned was Eizo Shimabukuro. I trained with him for about 3 years trying to increase my punching ability. Ended up learing all the standard form. The Heians, Bassai Dai, Empi, Nehanchi, Ect. Pardon my spelling, but it has been years since I wrote or even thought about those times and forms. Haven't done any of them since I got out and went back to only TKD.


----------



## jtbdad

exile said:


> Hi JohnI teach linguistics (specifically, syntax, mathematical foundations of linguistics and computational); have been there since 1988... almost 20 yearshard to believe. You're OU? So you must have lived in Athens for a bit, eh?
> 
> My instructor is Allen Shirley, who is sort of the honorary chief instructor at Little Star in Hilliard and is now running the Trudo dojangs (Master Darrell Trudo, 6th dan TKD, 3rd dan Hapkido, died recently and very unexpectedvery, very sad; he and Mr. Shirley were business partners for many years; they both shared a Song Moo Kwan lineage as senior students of Gm. Joon Pye Choi). The gentleman you're thinking of is Gm. Choon Mo Yang, who started in Columbus in 1970, and whose dojang is very traditional Ji Do Kwan.
> 
> There is a fair amount of martial arts activity in Columbus these daysnice to hear from another Columbusite! The fact is, there are a goodly number of Ohioans on MT...



I had met Mr. Trudo on a few occasions, I was always impressed by him I am sorry for your loss.    I have also met GM Choi on a few occasions, actually it is hard to be involved in the MA in Columbus and not have met him.  You are right about GM Yang.  My son was a student of his I simply couldn't remember his name.  He does seem to be very traditional and takes an interest in his students.  

Actually I did not attend in Athens; but the Lancaster Branch of OU.  Have you ever met Master Matt Mollica at OSU?  He taught Shuai Chiao and Tai-Chi there.  (I know OSU is huge but considering your background thought you might have ventured over there a time or two)  I have known Master Mollica for at least 25 years and was a student of his for a short time.

In any case the the martial arts are richly represented in Columbus. It was an exciting place to grow up.  Maybe someday we will meet. (If we haven't already)

John


----------



## Brandon Fisher

I have even recieved a call from GM Choi at one point and had a very lengthy and nice conversation with him.  I have not met him though because I have not been to an event in Columbus before.


----------



## exile

jtbdad said:


> I had met Mr. Trudo on a few occasions, I was always impressed by him I am sorry for your loss.    I have also met GM Choi on a few occasions, actually it is hard to be involved in the MA in Columbus and not have met him.  You are right about GM Yang.  My son was a student of his I simply couldn't remember his name.  He does seem to be very traditional and takes an interest in his students.
> 
> Actually I did not attend in Athens; but the Lancaster Branch of OU.  Have you ever met Master Matt Mollica at OSU?  He taught Shuai Chiao and Tai-Chi there.  (I know OSU is huge but considering your background thought you might have ventured over there a time or two)  I have known Master Mollica for at least 25 years and was a student of his for a short time.



Ah, so you were actually in school fairly close to here... I know of Master Mollica from his CMA studio on Indianola... it's somewhere  around North Broadway, I pass it all the time (my geographic sense of location is, um, distinctly _challenged_, let's say!) And I think I've seen demos by CMA groups he's been involved with at the Asian Festival.



jtbdad said:


> In any case the the martial arts are richly represented in Columbus. It was an exciting place to grow up.  Maybe someday we will meet. (If we haven't already)
> John



We can figure that out when we meet---why don't you PM me next time you're going to be in Columbus and we can sort out in person who was where when!


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## twendkata71

Wow, You guys are bringing up some names of people I have know for a long time. I have met Master Mollica several times. I have also been to many of Master Choi's events, talked to him  at the BOC.  I even thought of joining his WUMA organization.  He is one of the few Korean masters that has Japanese and Okinawan karate people teaching at his school. People like Mike"Kenjiro" Wayne of Goju ryu, Jane Van Phapeghem Shukokai Kempo (Tani Ha shito ryu Offshoot), I have also met Master Choon Yang on several occations. He is a fantastic martial artist. His niece married a good friend and past student of mine. I suggested that he train with Master Yang after I moved. 
Any of you guys know Nikeyei Yamashita( Ron Burgess) Shotokan? I have know him since I started training in karate when I was twelve. He used to perform the most amazing kata in competition. As far as OUL goes, I have attended a couple of tournaments at that branch put on by the local Shuri ryu school and the USKA. 
As far as the Columbus martial arts scene goes, it is rich in styles and great martial artist, Shorin ryu, Taekwondo,Shotokan,etc.


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## chinto01

I have been just browsing this thread but I would like to say it is good to hear some of the old names. Rmclain and Wade especially peaked my interest with mentioning Shimabukuro O'Sensei. Rmclain did you have a chance to converse with him while he was delivering his books and videos?

In the spirit of bushido!

Rob


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## rmclain

chinto01 said:


> I have been just browsing this thread but I would like to say it is good to hear some of the old names. Rmclain and Wade especially peaked my interest with mentioning Shimabukuro O'Sensei. Rmclain did you have a chance to converse with him while he was delivering his books and videos?
> 
> In the spirit of bushido!
> 
> Rob


 
I spoke with Eizo Shimabukuro at the bookstore for about 5 minutes.  Most of it was him trying to sell me his videotapes.  I didn't have much time to speak with him - I was on my way to a lunch/meeting with Zenpo Shimabukuro (no relation to Eizo).

R. McLain


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## exile

twendkata71 said:


> Wow, You guys are bringing up some names of people I have know for a long time. I have met Master Mollica several times. I have also been to many of Master Choi's events, talked to him  at the BOC.  I even thought of joining his WUMA organization.  He is one of the few Korean masters that has Japanese and Okinawan karate people teaching at his school. People like Mike"Kenjiro" Wayne of Goju ryu, Jane Van Phapeghem Shukokai Kempo (Tani Ha shito ryu Offshoot),



In a sense, I'm not at all surprised to hear thatI suspect it has to do with Song Moo Kwan attitudes towards karate based on Gm. Byung Jik Ro's training under Funakoshimy impression is that he never felt the need to turn his back on the roots of his art in karate, and that SMK people in general are quite happy to recognize the `first cousin' status of the relationship between TKD/TSD and the Okinawan/Japanese striking arts.




twendkata71 said:


> I have also met Master Choon Yang on several occations. He is a fantastic martial artist. His niece married a good friend and past student of mine. I suggested that he train with Master Yang after I moved. Any of you guys know Nikeyei Yamashita( Ron Burgess) Shotokan? I have know him since I started training in karate when I was twelve. He used to perform the most amazing kata in competition. As far as OUL goes, I have attended a couple of tournaments at that branch put on by the local Shuri ryu school and the USKA.



I've not met Master Burgess yet. Where is his dojo located, do you know, Twendkata? 



twendkata71 said:


> As far as the Columbus martial arts scene goes, it is rich in styles and great martial artist, Shorin ryu, Taekwondo,Shotokan,etc.



It's true, there's a lot going on. We have an annual Asian Festival that goes over three days every spring and there are a dozen or so MA demos a day, each of them from a different studio. The range and diversity of the MA community here really is striking, and its growth seems to be continuing with no sign of letup.  But then, Columbus is actually a fairly big cityits population is in excess of a million people right now. So it's got the demography to support a very active MA scene...


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## twendkata71

I do not know where his dojo is now. It has been many years and he has moved a few times.  More than likely Shihan Rick Moore would know. They have been associated for several years. I think they have some sort of organization. Rick Moore's academy is on east main st.


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## Brandon Fisher

Wow last time I saw Rick Moore was at Woodrow Fairbanks Tourney in Cincinati in '97.


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## jtbdad

twendkata71 said:


> I do not know where his dojo is now. It has been many years and he has moved a few times.  More than likely Shihan Rick Moore would know. They have been associated for several years. I think they have some sort of organization. Rick Moore's academy is on east main st.




I know Master Moore, I haven't had much contact with him but he is a great guy as far as I know.


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## twendkata71

Sensei Moore still has his four seasons tournaments. He also attends tournaments with his students. Fantastic dojo, and for an Matsubayashi Shorin ryu stylist he has an open mind. He traveled a lot all over asia, Japan, Korea, and Thailand I believe.  I think that originally he was affiliated with Mike Hixon Sr. He also has trained with Nagamine Shoshin himself, as well as many others.  As a matter of fact if I were to go back to training in Matsubayashi Shorin ryu, I would go to Rick Moore to train, him or Steven Barth.  
I do have a question. Anyone know where Mike Hixon Sr,& Jr. Dojo is?


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## jtbdad

twendkata71 said:


> Sensei Moore still has his four seasons tournaments. He also attends tournaments with his students. Fantastic dojo, and for an Matsubayashi Shorin ryu stylist he has an open mind. He traveled a lot all over asia, Japan, Korea, and Thailand I believe.  I think that originally he was affiliated with Mike Hixon Sr. He also has trained with Nagamine Shoshin himself, as well as many others.  As a matter of fact if I were to go back to training in Matsubayashi Shorin ryu, I would go to Rick Moore to train, him or Steven Barth.
> I do have a question. Anyone know where Mike Hixon Sr,& Jr. Dojo is?



Mike Sr. is Sensei Brian Dickersons senior, but he does not have a Dojo as far as I know.  Brian and I grew up together and I trained for a short time at his Dojo. (we were both students of Papa Joe Hayes)   I hope to go back once my Neurologist gives her ok.   I don't think that Mike Jr. has a Dojo anymore, but he does train fighters for kickboxing I believe.  Both of these men I do know and are great guys. I have a great deal of respect for both of them.   I haven't heard anything of Sensei Barth since he was training with Mike Hixson Jr. in the Methodist Church over at Binns and Briggs. Give me a few days and I will call Sensei Dickerson and ask.


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## Brandon Fisher

I wish I had known that I just saw Mike Hixson Sr. today at the Ohio Title Belt Champs in Canton.


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## twendkata71

I know that Mike Hixon Jr. does teach somewhere, but I am not sure, I heard at one time it was in Grovecity. Sensei Barth teaches at the Ohio breathing center. I have the address somewhere.  He used to teach at Franklin University, but no longer does. I first met sensei Barth at a Ryukyu Kobudo seminar with Kyoshi Deveroah Domeitrich. Sensei Barth is a hard training nice fellow with a true love of Okinawan karate and kobudo. Master Domeitrich is one of the finest teachers that I have ever had the pleasure of training with. She is the only western woman to be rank 7th dan directly from Akemine Hanshi who was  a direct student of Taira. She was a dedicated student of Akemine's for thirty years until his death in 1997. She Started training in Chito ryu karate do with he adopted father William Domeitrich Hanshi. Then she went into the Air Force and while stationed on Okinawa was introduced to Akemine Hanshi. She now also trains in Shinjinbukan Shorin ryu.  If you ever get the chance to go to one of her seminars do so.  I only wish that I had the time and money at that time to continue to train with her and join her association. 
I know that Master Hixon Sr. helped promote the PKC Ohio Valley Championships in Springfield. I have not seen him in several years, He used to attend the Rick Moore tournaments. He also originally had a dojo on Cleveland Ave. which was one of the oldest Shorin ryu schools in Columbus. He moved many years ago.


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## jtbdad

I remember that school between Morse and 161.  It was not unusual to find Mr. Keller and Mr. Clark there on occasion.  I even remember seeing Dick Greenlee (who went into gung-fu) there a time or two.  Wow that is going back.


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## twendkata71

Ah, Master Greenlee. I didn't know that he studied Shorin ryu.


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## twendkata71

Some other blasts from the past are Master Generux, who started the Ryukyu karate organization, which is an offshoot group from the Matsubayashi ryu. I think it had something to do with the Ueshiro-Nagamine split. Many of that time period where students of Ueshiro and when Nagamine O sensei cut Ueshiro from his group it left many to follow with their sensei Ueshiro. All over Ueshiro creating a third Fukyukata. I was friends with Roy Taylor, who ran the Sentry Martial arts supply for many years in Columbus and was a student of Generuex. Generuex and Taylor were both students of Nagamine and Titkin in the 50's and 60's.  They along with Frank Grant were senior's(having received their black belts when Takiyoshi was a boy) to Nagamine Takiyoshi Soke who took over for his father when he passed away in 1997.  I beleive it was Titkin and Generux that sponsered Takiyoshi when he stayed in the US to go to College in Cincinnati in the 60's.  They opened dojo's there in conjunction with Grant and did quite well. then for some reason they all parted ways. Ohio is one of the first places that Shorin ryu (Matsubayashi) was taught in the US. Starting in 1959. Here and New York.  
Now Kelly Keys runs the Ryukyu group out of Carol Ohio. Generux retired from teaching and handed his organization down to Keys. 
Roy Taylor retired and sold his store on 161. I really like Roy. He had been involved in the martial arts community in the Columbus area for 40 years.


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## jtbdad

twendkata71 said:


> Ah, Master Greenlee. I didn't know that he studied Shorin ryu.




If I'm not mistaken Master Greenlee was a student originally of James Wax.  I know Roy, and I of course have heard the names Generoux, and Titkin (Gary I think) but never had the honor of meeting either of them.  

Last I heard Master Greenlee was working with Matt Mollica.  They know each other through Greg Green originally.


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## jtbdad

twendkata71 said:


> Some other blasts from the past are Master Generux, who started the Ryukyu karate organization, which is an offshoot group from the Matsubayashi ryu. I think it had something to do with the Ueshiro-Nagamine split. Many of that time period where students of Ueshiro and when Nagamine O sensei cut Ueshiro from his group it left many to follow with their sensei Ueshiro. All over Ueshiro creating a third Fukyukata. I was friends with Roy Taylor, who ran the Sentry Martial arts supply for many years in Columbus and was a student of Generuex. Generuex and Taylor were both students of Nagamine and Titkin in the 50's and 60's.  They along with Frank Grant were senior's(having received their black belts when Takiyoshi was a boy) to Nagamine Takiyoshi Soke who took over for his father when he passed away in 1997.  I beleive it was Titkin and Generux that sponsered Takiyoshi when he stayed in the US to go to College in Cincinnati in the 60's.  They opened dojo's there in conjunction with Grant and did quite well. then for some reason they all parted ways. Ohio is one of the first places that Shorin ryu (Matsubayashi) was taught in the US. Starting in 1959. Here and New York.
> Now Kelly Keys runs the Ryukyu group out of Carol Ohio. Generux retired from teaching and handed his organization down to Keys.
> Roy Taylor retired and sold his store on 161. I really like Roy. He had been involved in the martial arts community in the Columbus area for 40 years.




Oh yeah I wanted to comment that I agree with your opinon of Roy.  What a helpful, knowledgeable, gentle and honorable man.  Do you remember a young man who worked for him that studied Shotokan named Alan?


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## jtbdad

jtbdad said:


> If I'm not mistaken Master Greenlee was a student originally of James Wax.  I know Roy, and I of course have heard the names Generoux, and Titkin (Gary I think) but never had the honor of meeting either of them.
> 
> Last I heard Master Greenlee was working with Matt Mollica.  They know each other through Greg Green originally.




I don't know much about Master Greenlee's background concerning Gung-Fu.  I know that Matsubayashi Ryu was the first MA he studied.


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## twendkata71

I remember a gentleman name allan working for Roy, I also remember a karate guy name angel that worked for him and left because of some sort of trouble. Roy was along with being a shorin ryu guy was also affiliated with Don Madden, working with him on tournaments and on the martial arts newsletter that Roy put out for a few years. I am sure that with the other supply stores in Columbus now, Roy just could not compete any longer. Plus, he had health problems. It is too bad. I used to be able to get what ever I needed at Roy's store. He had a lot of connections.


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## terryl965

Let me ask all of you a quick question here of all the fine instructor you have named from the past who would be your first choice to train with for a year with no interuptions?
Just curious that's all.
Terry


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## twendkata71

For me, It would be either Hixon Sr. or Rick Moore. Both have produced many good karate ka. Another would be Ron Burgess:AKA, Nikiyei Yamashita. He has came to our dojo several times and is a fantastic tactition. His techniques are crisp and fast.


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## Brandon Fisher

I agree on Mike Hixson Sr. and Rick Moore.


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## jtbdad

twendkata71 said:


> I remember a gentleman name allan working for Roy, I also remember a karate guy name angel that worked for him and left because of some sort of trouble. Roy was along with being a shorin ryu guy was also affiliated with Don Madden, working with him on tournaments and on the martial arts newsletter that Roy put out for a few years. I am sure that with the other supply stores in Columbus now, Roy just could not compete any longer. Plus, he had health problems. It is too bad. I used to be able to get what ever I needed at Roy's store. He had a lot of connections.





I remember it (The newsletter) I think Angel did most of the work on it for the last year or so.  

There was nothing I couldn't get through Roy.  Not only that but I think he was on a first name basis with every Martial Artist in Columbus.  His knowledge was incredible.  

I ran into Alan a few years ago.  He and I had a good laugh together he shared that the first time he saw Shorin-Ryu he thought they (the practitioners he was watching) were sloppy because of the shallow stances.  I shared with him that I thought Shotokan was slow because of their very deep stances.  Last I knew Alan was working at the goodwill rehabilitation center.


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## jtbdad

terryl965 said:


> Let me ask all of you a quick question here of all the fine instructor you have named from the past who would be your first choice to train with for a year with no interuptions?
> Just curious that's all.
> Terry




Wow, I guess I would have to chose either Master Hixson Sr. or Sensei Dickerson.  Although Master Moore would also be an excellent choice.


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## Randy Strausbaugh

jtbdad said:


> I don't know much about Master Greenlee's background concerning Gung-Fu. I know that Matsubayashi Ryu was the first MA he studied.


You can find some history on Richard Greenlee on http://www.mastermatt.com..
Check the section on "History of the Shaolin Tiger".


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## jtbdad

Randy Strausbaugh said:


> You can find some history on Richard Greenlee on http://www.mastermatt.com..
> Check the section on "History of the Shaolin Tiger".




Thanks Randy;
I noticed on your profile that you study Kenpo.  Is that with Herb Lamprecht?


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## chinto01

terryl965 said:


> Let me ask all of you a quick question here of all the fine instructor you have named from the past who would be your first choice to train with for a year with no interuptions?
> Just curious that's all.
> Terry



Eizo Shimabukuro Sensei

In the spirit of bushido!

Rob


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## twendkata71

Oh, I thought we were talking about the Columbus area. If we are talking Okinawa, it would be Shimaburu Eizo Hanshi, or Makishii Kyoshi, oh heck there are so many on Okinawa I would probably go crazy just trying to figure out which one I would like to train with first. but, then again, many dojo on Okinawa, you have to be introduced and then wait to be accepted. It is easier if you have a sponsor, like your sensei, trained with the master,etc. I also like Kise Fuse, but I heard that he stopped taking new students, especially from outside of Okinawa.  I had an opportunity to meet Taba Hanshi of Shogen ryu(formerly of Matsubayashi ryu), last year at the Arnold event. Fantastic teacher. When I get around these teachers,  I get like I was when I was a kid, I am so excited that I can barely focus. It is as exciting now as it was when I was starting out. Except now, my mother no longer has to tell me to take my gi off and not wear it around the house for days.hehe. To this day, I am more confortable wearing a gi than regular clothes. :ultracool


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## jtbdad

twendkata71 said:


> Oh, I thought we were talking about the Columbus area. If we are talking Okinawa, it would be Shimaburu Eizo Hanshi, or Makishii Kyoshi, oh heck there are so many on Okinawa I would probably go crazy just trying to figure out which one I would like to train with first. but, then again, many dojo on Okinawa, you have to be introduced and then wait to be accepted. It is easier if you have a sponsor, like your sensei, trained with the master,etc. I also like Kise Fuse, but I heard that he stopped taking new students, especially from outside of Okinawa.  I had an opportunity to meet Taba Hanshi of Shogen ryu(formerly of Matsubayashi ryu), last year at the Arnold event. Fantastic teacher. When I get around these teachers,  I get like I was when I was a kid, I am so excited that I can barely focus. It is as exciting now as it was when I was starting out. Except now, my mother no longer has to tell me to take my gi off and not wear it around the house for days.hehe. To this day, I am more confortable wearing a gi than regular clothes. :ultracool




*LOL! 

I would have no idea in Okinawa. 
*


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## Randy Strausbaugh

jtbdad said:


> Thanks Randy;
> I noticed on your profile that you study Kenpo. Is that with Herb Lamprecht?


I studied with Jay T. Will way back when, but Herb was an instructor at the school at the time. Along with Jay and Herb, I was also taught by Dave Sites and Chuck Nelson at the school.


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## rmclain

jtbdad said:


> *LOL! *
> 
> *I would have no idea in Okinawa. *


 
There are around 240 dojos in Okinawa.  Lots to choose from.

R. McLain


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## jtbdad

Randy Strausbaugh said:


> I studied with Jay T. Will way back when, but Herb was an instructor at the school at the time. Along with Jay and Herb, I was also taught by Dave Sites and Chuck Nelson at the school.




Jay I knew and Herb I know, but I do not know the other two individuals.  Do you teach in Columbus?


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## JasonASmith

I'd go back in time to Okinawa and study with Funakoshi Sensei or Itosu Sensei.


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## cstanley

Funakoshi would not be your best choice if you want Okinawan karate. Better Itosu, Motobu, or Mabuni. Also, Myagi, Higaonna.


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## JasonASmith

Hell, why not go for the "big cheese" himself...Matsumura


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## twendkata71

If we are going back in time. I would have to say, Soken Hohan, Or Mabuni Kenwa.


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## cbentz50

twendkata71 said:


> I know that Mike Hixon Jr. does teach somewhere, but I am not sure, I heard at one time it was in Grovecity. Sensei Barth teaches at the Ohio breathing center. I have the address somewhere. He used to teach at Franklin University, but no longer does. I first met sensei Barth at a Ryukyu Kobudo seminar with Kyoshi Deveroah Domeitrich. Sensei Barth is a hard training nice fellow with a true love of Okinawan karate and kobudo. Master Domeitrich is one of the finest teachers that I have ever had the pleasure of training with. She is the only western woman to be rank 7th dan directly from Akemine Hanshi who was a direct student of Taira. She was a dedicated student of Akemine's for thirty years until his death in 1997. She Started training in Chito ryu karate do with he adopted father William Domeitrich Hanshi. Then she went into the Air Force and while stationed on Okinawa was introduced to Akemine Hanshi. She now also trains in Shinjinbukan Shorin ryu. If you ever get the chance to go to one of her seminars do so. I only wish that I had the time and money at that time to continue to train with her and join her association.
> I know that Master Hixon Sr. helped promote the PKC Ohio Valley Championships in Springfield. I have not seen him in several years, He used to attend the Rick Moore tournaments. He also originally had a dojo on Cleveland Ave. which was one of the oldest Shorin ryu schools in Columbus. He moved many years ago.


Master Hixson Jr. and Master Hixson Sr. both teach at the Imperial School of Martial Arts at Westland Mall in Columbus Ohio. Master Hixson Sr. is hosting the Ohio Valley Can-Am tournament in August. Sensei Domeitrich holds a seminar at my school(Imperial School of Martial Arts) every couple of months.


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## twendkata71

Why doesn't Master Hixon have a web site for his school? He is one of the biggest promoters in the Central Ohio area, and has been teaching Shorin ryu in the area longer than most. Just curious as to why he doesn't have a web site.  I would love to go to another of Master Dometriech's Kobudo seminars. It was a real eye opener to real Ryukyu kobudo as opposed to what I had been taught over the years for tournament competition.


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## chinto

twendkata71 said:


> With all of that behind us. How about we get back to discussions about Okinawan karate.
> How many members use the bubishi as a guideline and aid to their training? I have used the bubishi to decifier several movements in kata.
> Most of the great Okinawan masters had a copy passed down to them. They felt it was of great importance. What do you think?


i have a copy and am of kyu rank. my sensei told me to get a copy along with several books, the first of them being "Okinawan Karate" by mark Bishop.


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## chinto

your instructor would have tought you Shobayashi Shorin ryu if his instructor was Ezio Shimibukuro. O'sensei has tought numorious service personal on Okinawa over the years.


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## chinto

wade said:


> Mr. Mclain, thanks, that sounds about right. You just gave me more information on that than my instructor ever did. I was in the Corp from May 67-May 70. Got out right after I got back from Nam. Started TKD while in the Corp. Was bored and went into the army about 4 months later. Was in the Army at JFK Center for the next 7 years. I met MSgt McDonald there. He had about 3 tours in Nam and had spent a time in Okinawa. The only instructor he ever mentioned was Eizo Shimabukuro. I trained with him for about 3 years trying to increase my punching ability. Ended up learing all the standard form. The Heians, Bassai Dai, Empi, Nehanchi, Ect. Pardon my spelling, but it has been years since I wrote or even thought about those times and forms. Haven't done any of them since I got out and went back to only TKD.


 

 Interesting that you use the shotokan names for the kata, perhaps you have trained in shotokan since you got out of the military then?

The Okinawan names for the kata are  Pinan and not heian,  passai and passai dai  and nahanchi.  Im not sure which kata empi is so wount say.


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## chinto

if you could go back in time, then Kyan sensei would be my choice.


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## chinto

i study Shobayashi Shorin Ryu.  my linige is to my sensei, then to the Kyoshi Gould, then to Osensei.


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## seasoned

Peter Musacchio, Frank VanLenten. Old CNY Karate dojo, Syr NY.


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## NDNgirl4ever

I study Shorin ryu karate.


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## chinto

NDNgirl4ever said:


> I study Shorin ryu karate.


 

OK, can you tell us of the 4 main styles your particuler style of shorin ryu perhaps??  they would be kobayashi, matsubayashi, shobayashi, and matsumura seito are the four main styles.


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## jd71517

I am actually anotehr student of Mike Hixson Jr and Sr and have trained very little under Rick Moore.  The Hixsons help Chad Bentz run the Imperial School fo martial Arts in Westland mall.  They have been their for quite a while.  I have not however trained uneder them in a while but last I checked from Hixson Jr's son they were still there.  


twendkata71 said:


> I know that Mike Hixon Jr. does teach somewhere, but I am not sure, I heard at one time it was in Grovecity. Sensei Barth teaches at the Ohio breathing center. I have the address somewhere. He used to teach at Franklin University, but no longer does. I first met sensei Barth at a Ryukyu Kobudo seminar with Kyoshi Deveroah Domeitrich. Sensei Barth is a hard training nice fellow with a true love of Okinawan karate and kobudo. Master Domeitrich is one of the finest teachers that I have ever had the pleasure of training with. She is the only western woman to be rank 7th dan directly from Akemine Hanshi who was a direct student of Taira. She was a dedicated student of Akemine's for thirty years until his death in 1997. She Started training in Chito ryu karate do with he adopted father William Domeitrich Hanshi. Then she went into the Air Force and while stationed on Okinawa was introduced to Akemine Hanshi. She now also trains in Shinjinbukan Shorin ryu. If you ever get the chance to go to one of her seminars do so. I only wish that I had the time and money at that time to continue to train with her and join her association.
> I know that Master Hixon Sr. helped promote the PKC Ohio Valley Championships in Springfield. I have not seen him in several years, He used to attend the Rick Moore tournaments. He also originally had a dojo on Cleveland Ave. which was one of the oldest Shorin ryu schools in Columbus. He moved many years ago.


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## Brandon Fisher

As of about a month ago when I was talking with Mr. Bentz the Hixson's are still there.


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## Grandmaster_McMurray

wade said:


> From page one on the original question, my instructor was Msgt Owen McDonald. He was with 5th SFG and was the NCOIC of the Ft. Bragg TKD training facility in 1975/76. He said I was training in Okinawan Karate. He said his instructor was Ezio Shimmbuko (SP). Now, ya gotta remember this was 39 years ago, my memory is bad and I don't even know if my instructor is even still with us, haven't seen him since I got out in 77. Some where in the late 70's or early 80's I competed in a tournament in Tacoma Washington and I have a picture of me getting my trophy from someone with the same last name. Interesting, neh?




My name is James McMurray, I was at Fort Bragg when Sensei Owen McDonald was there. I was training at the Fort Bragg Taekwondo Branch and he was teaching in Fayetteville and later with Master Johnson in Spring Lake. He indeed trained with The Great E. Shimabuku, at the time, I believe that Master McDonald was a 4th or 5th Dan. We both were two of the 12-instructors for the XVIII Abn Corpos under LTG Henry Emerson.  Master McDonald as I last heard is still alive and living in East Texas.


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## marlon

. Im not sure which kata empi is so wount say.[/quote]


Wankan or wakan...i am not sure of the spelling
respectfully,
Marlon


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## Brandon Fisher

marlon said:


> . Im not sure which kata empi is so wount say.


 



> Wankan or wakan...i am not sure of the spelling
> respectfully,
> Marlon



Actually Empi is Wanshu or Wansu.


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## chinto

Brandon Fisher said:


> Actually Empi is Wanshu or Wansu.




is it unchanged from wanshu kata though??


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## Brandon Fisher

Chinto,
They are similar but not exactly the same.


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## marlon

Brandon Fisher said:


> Actually Empi is Wanshu or Wansu.
> Thanks that's it...it has been a long time
> 
> marlon


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## Brandon Fisher

No problem Marlon


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## Myrmidon

My experience in Okinawan Karate is in Goju Ryu, mainly with Kimo Wall Sensei.

http://www.kimowall.netfirms.com/


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## chinto

Brandon Fisher said:


> Chinto,
> They are similar but not exactly the same.




ok thanks that is what I suspected but did not know.  thanks again.


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## Brandon Fisher

chinto said:


> ok thanks that is what I suspected but did not know. thanks again.


No problem


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## arnisador

Interesting timeline on Okinawan Karate:
http://www.wonder-okinawa.jp/023/eng/002/001/index.html


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## Grenadier

Myrmidon said:


> My experience in Okinawan Karate is in Goju Ryu, mainly with Kimo Wall Sensei.
> 
> http://www.kimowall.netfirms.com/


 
I met Wall Sensei at last year's martial arts symposium in South Carolina.  A good guy, that's for certain, and I enjoyed the Qi-Gong clinics he conducted for us every morning there.  

Hopefully, he'll be back this year.


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## Jim Greenwood

I study Ryukyu Kempo from Master Jim Corn.


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## Zero

MY goju ryu study has primarily been with sensei Kevin Shaw and Mike Flanagan.  Our line was started in the West by sensie John Jarvis, with our teaching in Japan coming from sensie Higoanna Morio. Although not affiliated or directly connected to, we train in Japan at the Okinawan goju ryu karate-do so Honbu Jundokan, founded by Mayazato Ei'ichi sensei, a senior student of master Chogun Miyagi.


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## harlan

Goju, in the line of Giles Hopkins - Kimo Wall/Kodukan Goju & Kobudo. Strong Higa and Toguchi mix.

http://kimowall.netfirms.com/history.htm


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