# Assault weapon design



## theletch1 (Jan 13, 2004)

While diggin' around for info on the C-7 for a response to another thread here I came across this site.Assault Weapons I notice that a lot of the weapons are designed with the mag to the rear of the trigger assembly.  Have any of you used a weapon with this configuration?  How did it feel?  Was changing mags a hassle or easier?


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## Crazy Chihuahua (Jan 13, 2004)

Bullpup designs are illegal in Canada, so I'll never have my hands on one, at least not up here...but it's SUPPOSED to allow for FASTER mag changes. Whether this occurs or not I obviously have no idea, being as I've never even held one to practice the reloading action...It also shortens the overall length of the weapon, which would be nice for urban environments or thick brush. The Austrians have the Steyer AUG, the Brits have the SA80 and the French have some, too, though I can't quite bring to mind what it/they are...Anyway, yeah I'd kind of like to know what they're like, too.


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## Crazy Chihuahua (Jan 13, 2004)

Hey, I just checked out that link...the French rifle I was thinking of is the G2...Ha ha, I should have known that from playing Rainbow Six!  Anyway, yeah if you checked out the other thread theletch is talking about...go to the link he posted, check the Canadian section and the C7A1 is the rifle I'm firing Thursday!


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## dearnis.com (Jan 13, 2004)

the idea, I believe, is a shorter overall weapon while retaining a longer barrel.  the problem is the need to dis-mount the weapon to get at the mag.


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## Crazy Chihuahua (Jan 13, 2004)

> _Originally posted by dearnis.com _
> *the idea, I believe, is a shorter overall weapon while retaining a longer barrel.  the problem is the need to dis-mount the weapon to get at the mag. *



Keeping in mind I've never used or even handled one, is it not (in theory,) possible to get at the magazine well by kind of lifting your arm? You know what I mean? Like, keep the butt against your shoulder and kind of let the heel slide down the front of your shoulder so that the top of the butt rests against your arm, letting you pull the mag, swap out and then let the rifle kind of fall back into a firing position...It feels good in the air, anyway!  
They way it works in my head, it actually seems like a quick and stable method, though it may take a fraction longer to reaquire a target...Then again, maybe it wouldn't, like I said, never shot one. I think the way I've got it working in my mind could actually be fairly quick. If I ever have the opportunity to fire an L85 or an AUG, I'll let you guys know how it works!  Ha ha!


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## Phil Elmore (Jan 13, 2004)

A bullpup design does indeed shorten the overall weapon while retaining the same relative barrel length.  There are two major problems with such a configuration, however:

1.) Reluctance of soldiers armed with such a weapon to patrol the "wrong" side of a street.  (Think about it:  where do those shells eject if you try to switch the weapon to the other side of your body?)

2.) Placement of the action that much closer to the side of the head/face area.

There are many tales of the British-issue bullpup rifle and the Steyr-AUG bullpup arm failing to function properly.  It's hard to know if the rifles are really that bad or if the stories are just the result of reluctance to change to the different design.


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## dearnis.com (Jan 13, 2004)

The British version supposedly had all sorts of difficulties.  The AUG I don't know about.


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## theletch1 (Jan 14, 2004)

> Reluctance of soldiers armed with such a weapon to patrol the "wrong" side of a street. (Think about it: where do those shells eject if you try to switch the weapon to the other side of your body?)


 This was a problem with left handed folks with the M-16 while on the firing range.  The face was right up next to the ejection port and even with the deflector that's molded into the side of the upper frame the occasional spent casing would catch someone in the face.  O' course the right hand guys like me always had the opportunity to get a piece of hot brass down the back of the collar from the guy firing to our left side.


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## Phil Elmore (Jan 14, 2004)

True -- which is why moving the ejector port that much farther back in a bullpup makes the problem more... problematic.  ;-)


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## theletch1 (Jan 17, 2004)

> The unique feature of the F2000 rifle is its' patented front ejection systems: the spent cases, extracted from the chamber, travel from the rear part of the gun to the ejection port near the muzzle via special ejection tube and falls out of the gun at the safe distance from the shooters' face.


 This is from the site that I posted the link to earlier in this thread.  The weapon is the FN F2000 and looks like something out of a sci-fi picture.  It does look as if someone in R&D listened to the folks in the field that complained of hot brass in their face.  I have to think that this is a way too comlex system to do well in the field for extended periods of time with no opportunity to clean the weapon.


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## dearnis.com (Jan 17, 2004)

if this is the rifle I'm thinking of it is designed around a specialized high velocity round designed to defeat personal body armor.   In many ways it seems to be a solution in search of a problem.


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