# Ken vs Tito



## Andrew Green (Jun 1, 2006)

I'm gonna go with Ken this time, last time Ken was hurt and Tito whooped him, now Ken is fixed and Tito almost pulled out because he is hurt. Both need this win, and I'm going against the odds here, but I got this feeling... and I don't think it's right that Tito gets a title fight after two wins (Forrest and SHamrock) when neither where top contenders. For that, he deserves a knee bar


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## Marvin (Jun 1, 2006)

Tito gets a title shot if he wins aganst Shammy?


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## MJS (Jun 1, 2006)

Hmm...this is going to be another tough one.  I think they're both great fighters but I'm going with Tito again.

Mike


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## Henderson (Jun 1, 2006)

Tito.    Age says a lot.


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## barriecusvein (Jun 1, 2006)

Yeah i go with Tito too. Kens awesome, but he's getting on now.


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## Andrew Green (Jun 1, 2006)

Marvin said:
			
		

> Tito gets a title shot if he wins aganst Shammy?



Yes, he's on a 3 fight deal, 3rd one a title fight if he wins the other two.  Other two being the one with Forest and the one with Shamrock.


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## Marginal (Jun 1, 2006)

I'll go Shamrock. Someone's gotta go with the Royce of the match...


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## Flatlander (Jun 1, 2006)

Tito's going to destroy Ken.  There's no doubt in my mind.  He's faster and stronger, generally in better shape.


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## terryl965 (Jun 1, 2006)

I concur with flatlander on this one.
terry


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## Andrew Green (Jun 1, 2006)

Flatlander said:
			
		

> Tito's going to destroy Ken.  There's no doubt in my mind.  He's faster and stronger, generally in better shape.



Probably, but I still want to see him get beat and not get that title shot for beating two guys that aren't contenders. (Although Forest is getting there)

Both are generally over rated and overhyped though.


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## Flatlander (Jun 1, 2006)

Andrew Green said:
			
		

> Probably, but I still want to see him get beat and not get that title shot for beating two guys that aren't contenders. (Although Forest is getting there)
> 
> Both are generally over rated and overhyped though.


Who do you figure more deserves to have Chuck hand them their ***?


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## Andrew Green (Jun 1, 2006)

Tito, hands down.

After ducking him for what?  2 years? he deserves to get dropped again for thinking he can do a title fight without fighting any top contenders.

Ken wouldn't even be givne the opportunity anymore...  Respect for continuing to get in there and bang it out, but he's definately past his prime. Although still a damn good fighter.


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## Lisa (Jun 1, 2006)

Tito, definitely.  Ken is getting up there.  Age will win out, me thinks


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## matt.m (Jun 2, 2006)

I am going to go with Kenny.  I think Ortiz is a punk, plus I always go for the underdog.  Most the time I am the underdog, so I might as well root for my peers in that category. LOL.  You know the question of who should Norris whup, nah....Let Chucky have a break.  Let us get my boy Mr. Superfoot Wallace to hand out some thourough beating.

Bill's philosophy is "It is always my turn," and he has a 20 mile an hour side kick.

I met Bill twice, once in 03 and the other in 04.  He was a guest at our national convention.  Great guy.


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## John Brewer (Jun 7, 2006)

I didn't respect Tito's skills until the Griffin fight. Also I saw Ken in the Pride fights a while ago and although he was winning he ran out of gas and didn't finish the fight. Unless he's in a lot better shape I have to take Ortiz.

John


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## crushing (Jun 7, 2006)

matt.m,

I was just doing a little internet research on Mr. Wallace last night after hearing about a local martial artist's 'run-in' with him years ago.

I haven't seen him fight, but from I could tell, his opponents must have known he was going to kick with his left leg and they STILL couldn't beat him.


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## matt.m (Jun 7, 2006)

Bill Wallace is absolutely cool.   He took 20 minutes to give me personal one on one at our Moo Sul Kwan national convention.  I wear a leg brace on each leg and his legs are shot and he is world champion.  So I got some one on one time to pick his brain.

It was great, he is so unselfish.


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## ace (Jun 7, 2006)

IM going with Ken. I like both fighters
but Ken is one of the reasons Im even in
this Game.


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## Robert Lee (Jun 8, 2006)

Watching both on the ulttimate fighter series. I have to go with Tito. He works more enderance has a better ground game. NOW if Tito trys to go standup with ken. I think ken would win.


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## ace (Jun 8, 2006)

Robert Lee said:
			
		

> Watching both on the ulttimate fighter series. I have to go with Tito. He works more enderance has a better ground game. NOW if Tito trys to go standup with ken. I think ken would win.


 
They are both great fighters but Ken
has a well rounded game he is better known for his 
ground game & Submission skills.

Tito will be a tuough fight but we will 
see good luck to both the real winners are us
the fans who get to see them get it onartyon: artyon:


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## Nemesis (Jun 8, 2006)

Just a little teaser.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Be9R3Al2aM0&search=shamrock%20vs%20tito


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## stone_dragone (Jun 8, 2006)

Going with old age and guile...Ken towards the end of the match.


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## FuriousGeorge (Jun 9, 2006)

Tito for sure...his endurance is far superior.  If Ken wins, it'll be early on, but I think Tito's game is superior standing, ground and clinch.


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## Gemini (Jul 3, 2006)

I like Ken. Always have. I feel he has been a pioneer and driving force in the growing popularity of MMA. But this isn't a popularity contest. He has little chance in this one.


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## SUPERMAN .45 (Jul 3, 2006)

I like Ken he's a good and tough fighter but age is his problem, unless he knocks out Tito on the first round. It's going to be a good fight goodluck to both fighters.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Jul 4, 2006)

Based on the last fight and youth, Tito has a big edge in my opinion.

Brian R. VanCise
www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com


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## Brian R. VanCise (Jul 4, 2006)

However, never count out Shamrock.  He may just pull out a 
wild crazy leg bar or something.

Brian R. VanCise
www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com


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## Rich Parsons (Jul 5, 2006)

Brian R. VanCise said:
			
		

> However, never count out Shamrock.  He may just pull out a
> wild crazy leg bar or something.
> 
> Brian R. VanCise
> www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com



While I agree that anything is possible and that one needs to respect that option, Ken is not Randy C who was also 42, but Ken's work out ethics at his age are not the same. 

In TUF 3, he would just stand there and watch and relive is wins and show his tapes but not work his guys. I agree with one needs to imagine what can happpen and see themselves winning, but one also needs to practice the basics and do it for real, and not just do it your mind only with no practice. 

While I do not like Tito, I have learned to respect him a little, and I do not and have not liked Ken, I make these comments in as objective a mindset I can.


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## Street Brawler (Jul 5, 2006)

This stuff needs a new Gracie. They were the best and still can win if they send a new member to the ring .


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## James Clifton (Jul 5, 2006)

Did anyone else see ORTIZ TRAINING on SPIKE??The guys he was training with were HIS picks from the SHOW.I wasn't impressed with what he did.SHAMROCK WAS NEXT,guys he WANTS this MORE than ORTIZ!! AGE....we shall see.I still like him for two rounds.ORTIZ....I was looking for....something!! I didn't see it! Or perhaps...he just showed what he WANTED people to see!!
Be safe,
            Jim


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## jstreet (Jul 5, 2006)

Ortiz all the way. Younger, faster, stronger, and more capable at this point. Both in their prime would be a different story I think. Tito signed a three fight contract with the 3rd fight being a title match if he won the first two. Forrest was the first fight and he turned out to be a pretty good opponent. He is up and coming. They are setting Shamrock up as the second fight because Ken doesn't have much left in the tank, and that is the biggest money fight the UFC has to offer right now and it is a good lead in to the Tito vs Chuck rematch. I am picking Titon in this one, and in the rematch against Liddell, you heard it here first.


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## Rich Parsons (Jul 5, 2006)

Street Brawler said:
			
		

> This stuff needs a new Gracie. They were the best and still can win if they send a new member to the ring .




Having seen a recent UFC remember show on Spike they highlighted Royce, and his early fights. They pointed out that his elbows to the back of the head and also his palm shots to the back of the head, and his finger manipualtions to pry open a hand are no longer allowed. 

I also noted that in the beginning ones those who struck did not strike on teh ground they were lost. Those that grappled were not used to being on their back and also not used to being hit on the ground. 

Not saying that another could not step in do something, but the game has changed from what their art has been practicing for a long time.

No disrespect to the Gracie family. But I would be very upset with Dana White and the UFC if one was just allowed to walk in and not do what everyone else has to  do which is  do some preliminary fights. 


************************

Back on topic, I watched a show that showed them both Ken and Tito and Ken does seem hungry and no longer lost like he was on drugs look he has had for a long time. If he shows up it could be a fight, but I still have my money on Tito.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Jul 5, 2006)

Rich Parsons said:
			
		

> Having seen a recent UFC remember show on Spike they highlighted Royce, and his early fights. They pointed out that his elbows to the back of the head and also his palm shots to the back of the head, and his finger manipualtions to pry open a hand are no longer allowed.
> 
> I also noted that in the beginning ones those who struck did not strike on teh ground they were lost. Those that grappled were not used to being on their back and also not used to being hit on the ground.
> 
> ...


 
Yes, any Gracie that stepped in now should have to fight his way to the top.  They should have to prove just like everyone else that they can compete with the best.  (baring Rickson deciding to come out of retirement)

Brian R. VanCise


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## Rich Parsons (Jul 5, 2006)

Brian R. VanCise said:
			
		

> Yes, any Gracie that stepped in now should have to fight his way to the top. They should have to prove just like everyone else that they can compete with the best. (baring Rickson deciding to come out of retirement)
> 
> Brian R. VanCise



I still think Rickson should have at least one Prilimanary fight. It would go a long way for credibility. In my opinion that is.


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## Knarfan (Jul 5, 2006)

Tito. I don't think that Ken can stop Tito from taking him down. The only style that seems to give Tito trouble is either a guy who is next to impossible to take down like Chuck Liddell or a guy who is a better grappler (ground & pounder) like Cotour. Shamrock is a great all around fighter but....


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## tshadowchaser (Jul 5, 2006)

> Ortiz all the way. Younger, faster, stronger, and more capable at this point


 
15 years ago ken but i think his day now has gone bye


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## Shogun (Jul 5, 2006)

> Who do you figure more deserves to have Chuck hand them their ***?


If Tito wins, he won't be fighting chuck because Babalu is gonna show liddell what "well rounded" really means. better wrestling, better Jiu-jitsu, better Muay Thai, better boxing. 

I want Shamrock to win this one. I thought he looked great against franklin (who is a MUCH smarter fighter than "Titties") until he slipped. and I don't think Tito would of capitolized on sham slipping either. he would probably layed on him. so yes Tito, I do admire you, but I hope you get Kneebarred. that would be sweet. a shamrock leglock victory for old-times sake.


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## Street Brawler (Jul 6, 2006)

Rich Parsons said:
			
		

> Having seen a recent UFC remember show on Spike they highlighted Royce, and his early fights. They pointed out that his elbows to the back of the head and also his palm shots to the back of the head, and his finger manipualtions to pry open a hand are no longer allowed.
> 
> I also noted that in the beginning ones those who struck did not strike on teh ground they were lost. Those that grappled were not used to being on their back and also not used to being hit on the ground.
> 
> ...


 
So you mean that the surprise element was the key that the Gracies had to victory. You got a point pal .


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## lll000000lll (Jul 19, 2006)

as good and well rounded a fighter as Ken is, but im gonna have to go with Tito, his conditioning surpasses Kens. but then again anything can happen in a fight. look what happend when it was shamrock vs Keno. one knee in the 1st 20 seconds of the fight, bam knockout


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## Blindside (Jul 19, 2006)

lll000000lll said:
			
		

> as good and well rounded a fighter as Ken is, but im gonna have to go with Tito, his conditioning surpasses Kens. but then again anything can happen in a fight. look what happend when it was shamrock vs Keno. one knee in the 1st 20 seconds of the fight, bam knockout


 
The Tito/Shamrock fight was fought on the 8th, hunt around on some of vid sites and you might be able to find a copy of it, it was rather short....

Lamont


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