# Is there actual techniques in wing chun



## suicide (Mar 8, 2009)

for example like kenpo does


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## Nabakatsu (Mar 8, 2009)

I've never knowingly saw kenpo, but i'm under the impression your answer will be no, as far as I know there are no techniques in wing tzun/chun what so ever.


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## geezer (Mar 8, 2009)

Nabakatsu said:


> I've never knowingly saw kenpo, but i'm under the impression your answer will be no, as far as I know *there are no techniques in wing tzun/chun what so ever*.



Man, that makes me feel so much better. Before I read this, I was getting a little discouraged when my instructor kept telling me that I had, "no technique, whatsoever!" Now I know I was just getting into the correct spirit of the art.


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## Nabakatsu (Mar 8, 2009)

-chuckles- We're on the track baby yeah!


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## mook jong man (Mar 8, 2009)

suicide said:


> for example like kenpo does


 
No absolutely none , we use mind control to subdue our opponents and through the sheer force of our will we cause them to chain punch themselves to death.


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## Nabakatsu (Mar 8, 2009)

:jediduel:You will not maintain your structure, the chain punches feel good. -waves his hand in a convincing fashion-


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## profesormental (Mar 9, 2009)

Greetings.

The "Techniques" in Kenpo refer to "Self Defense Techniques", which are actually Technique Sequences for Self Defense Scenarios.

Wing Chun curriculum is an approach that is abstracted from martial movement, and it is the individual instructor's responsibility to make drills to teach the applications to self defense and fighting.

So the answer is yes and no. It depends on the instructor.

Hope that helps.

Juan M. Mercado


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## geezer (Mar 9, 2009)

profesormental said:


> Greetings.
> 
> The "Techniques" in Kenpo refer to "Self Defense Techniques", which are *actually Technique Sequences for Self Defense Scenarios.*
> 
> ...


 
I figured he meant something like that, but the way the question was stated, I just had to give a wise-*** response. Sorry. Anyway, glad you came through with a real answer, Profe. One of the things I like about WT is that we _don't_ train a bunch of choreographed attack and defense sequences. The techniques are trained to be applied spontaneously, according to the situation. On the other hand, as you pointed out, many instructors do teach self defense sequences, such as the EWTO's "Blitz Self Defense" program, to name just one.


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## dungeonworks (Mar 9, 2009)

I think it is more fair to say that Wing Chun is a principle based art and not technique based.  Your stances and attacks are done according to these principles.  There are no combination's such as contained in boxing or Karate.  You attack and react according to scientific principles.  You build your sensitivity through progressively harder drills and forms practice to such a level it becomes ingrained and reflexive/instinctive by nature.

Would that be accurate for this question???


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## koenig (Mar 10, 2009)

How are Kenpo techniques different from WC techniques?

I mean I know the actual techniques themselves are different, but they both have "techniques."

Kempo has roundhouse kick, upward block, twisting punch, etc.

WC has pak sao, bong sao, straight blast, etc.

Yes they both have techniques.


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## punisher73 (Mar 10, 2009)

koenig said:


> How are Kenpo techniques different from WC techniques?
> 
> I mean I know the actual techniques themselves are different, but they both have "techniques."
> 
> ...


 
What you are referring to as "techniques" would be called "basics" in kenpo.  Self-Defense techniques as found in kenpo are a preset response that deals with a variety of attacks.  Take a right straight punch for example, kenpo will have a set technique for inside the punch, outside the punch, right leg forward, left leg forward and any other variable.  Wing Chun on the other hand would deal with it using concepts found within its forms (including wooden dummy) and through chi sao practice.  Same end result just a different approach.


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## dungeonworks (Mar 10, 2009)

dungeonworks said:


> I think it is more fair to say that Wing Chun is a principle based art and not technique based.  Your stances and attacks are done according to these principles.  There are no combination's such as contained in boxing or Karate.  You attack and react according to *your opponent's attack energy/force and adhering to *scientific principles.  You build your sensitivity through progressively harder drills and forms practice to such a level it becomes ingrained and reflexive/instinctive by nature.
> 
> Would that be accurate for this question???




There, that sounds better.  Red is edited/added to my above posting.


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## koenig (Mar 10, 2009)

so in Kenpo you're referring to a preset group of movements as a "technique"?

Or did i misunderstand?

In that case, no WC doesn't have "if he does X, you do Y" "techniques."


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## Hand Sword (Mar 11, 2009)

I thought about this topic before with other styles similar to WC's ideas. I would have to say abstractly-yes. Each instructor in their training came up with their own formulas for their techniques and scenarios. They then pass these on to their students. They don't teach randomly so to speak, there is a structure, whether it's identified or not on the whole. All the instructors, once on their developed their own way and say that you have to do so to. But, how do you get there? You do "their ways" on the journey. (that includes their own ideas for combinations against attacks that they "pull out" to show you. Trust me, there was a lot of thought and practice of them through the years!)


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## punisher73 (Mar 12, 2009)

koenig said:


> so in Kenpo you're referring to a preset group of movements as a "technique"?
> 
> Or did i misunderstand?
> 
> In that case, no WC doesn't have "if he does X, you do Y" "techniques."


 
That is correct, in kenpo it refers to a preset group of movements.  Singular movements would be referred to as basics.  In Kenpo, many times the first technique learned is "Delayed Sword", it is a counter to a right handed lapel grab.  You step back with your left foot and do an inward block to the attacker's arm, then you move your right foot back into a cat stance and do a front kick to the groin, and then plant forward and do a handsword to the neck (thus the delayed sword which follows the kick, in an earlier version it was the inward block right to the handsword).

They are all preset like that when learning the self-defense moves and then you learn to add, delete, prefix etc. with other basics.


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## mook jong man (Mar 12, 2009)

Wing Chun has the attacking and defensive structures of Tan Sau , Fook Sau and Bong Sau . Each of these movements can be utilised in a myriad of different ways .

 It makes it easier to respond spontaneously to a random attack when you have three tools in your tool box that do pretty much everything rather than have a whole load of tools that only do one job.


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## Xue Sheng (Mar 12, 2009)

geezer said:


> Man, that makes me feel so much better. Before I read this, I was getting a little discouraged when my instructor kept telling me that I had, "no technique, whatsoever!" Now I know I was just getting into the correct spirit of the art.


 
So does this mean that my short time studying Wing Chun and now my not remembering any techniques makes me a master so now not only am I the lord high omnipotent grand master and evil wizard of Xuefu but also a master of Wing ChunCOOL!!!


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## Hagakure (Mar 12, 2009)

Xue Sheng said:


> So does this mean that my short time studying Wing Chun and now my not remembering any techniques makes me a master so now not only am I the lord high omnipotent grand master and evil wizard of Xuefu but also a master of Wing ChunCOOL!!!



Agreed oh worshipful master. In fact, I think people should flood to your house to train with you, and have their photograph taken with you to lend authenticity to any schools they may open.


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## Si-Je (Mar 12, 2009)

Well I look at it like a musician.
There are definate "techniques" in Wing Chun, like there are individual notes that each make a different sound.

Ex. You learn 8 notes in a scale in music, and their are different 8 note combinations for several different scales. One note doesn't make a song, and one scale doesn't make a song.  Their drills to give you the "finger" and throat muscle memory needed to play properly and in key. The same with WC/WT.  You have SLT, Chum Kiu, and Bil Gee, lat sau, lop sau, etc. to get you the muscle memory needed to execute each technique (note) properly and in key to what your applying it to.

You learn your seperate techniques like a musician would learn to read and play each individual note.

Now when you've achieved this you learn your "scales", or a combination of set movements in Wing Chun like the three forms, lop sau, lat sau, and application drills, stance work an instructor may teach a beginning student to get their muscle memory trained for proper response to certian attacks.  (ex. when someone jabs you use pak sau or tan sau then... etc..)

Then when the student has a basic understanding of each technique (or note or scale) then you begin to "play" music. 
As a musician we spent years playing certian songs for performance.  As a WC practitioner you do spend years learning somewhat set patterns of response, but... as a WC practitioner you "improvise" much sooner. 
Musicians and some MA pratitioners in other styles will still be working on set patterns, scales so to speak before they ever learn to improvise.  What makes Wing Chun different is that from almost day one you begin to learn how to "improvise" and respond spontaneously.

As a musician this is a level that many never reach, "jazz improvization."  Where you can hear a baseline, rythum, or song and immediately "respond" to the song and play in key and in rythum "on the fly".
Only the great ones in music can reach this level because it takes so long.  As a MAist studying WC you begin at this level of thinking right off the bat whereas many other arts may not.  
But, your still learning certian individual techniques and drill sets like any other student.  The WC teacher just takes it to the next level of "improvisation" earlier in this art than others.  
And like music, it takes years to be able to truely "improvise" well in a martial art.  And like music only a few people learn to do this, where many of the world's great musicians were largely self taught or improvised naturally and adapted to music on a level many don't understand.  But to them it's "natural", because they didn't learn music in the traditional method.  Still makes it music.  Same same, with Wing Chun. While the way WC is taught is not the "traditional" way to teach a fighting art as many other styles teach it, it's still a fighting style playing "notes, scales and music peices" like any other art, it just focuses more on improvisation in the earliest stages of learning.

Pardon guys.  I'm a musician at heart and with years of training, and I've always seen drastic similarities in martial arts training and music training.

Wing Chun will always be Jazz Improv to me. The funnest part of learning and playing music.


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## koenig (Mar 12, 2009)

punisher73 said:


> That is correct, in kenpo it refers to a preset group of movements.  Singular movements would be referred to as basics.  In Kenpo, many times the first technique learned is "Delayed Sword", it is a counter to a right handed lapel grab.  You step back with your left foot and do an inward block to the attacker's arm, then you move your right foot back into a cat stance and do a front kick to the groin, and then plant forward and do a handsword to the neck (thus the delayed sword which follows the kick, in an earlier version it was the inward block right to the handsword).
> 
> They are all preset like that when learning the self-defense moves and then you learn to add, delete, prefix etc. with other basics.



I was totally unaware of that.  I see what you mean, now.


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## dnovice (Mar 12, 2009)

Be like water.... 

In WC you learn techniques only to get your body used to certain movements (muscle memory). However, the ultimate goal is to forgot those techniques and let the your body take control. 

If you are starting to learn and you don't have technique, you don't really improve. Think about it, if you can't get a sequence of action down in a classroom with no pressure, how do you expect to put together a body improvised technique under pressure-a fight for instance.


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## Xue Sheng (Mar 12, 2009)

Hagakure said:


> Agreed oh worshipful master. In fact, I think people should flood to your house to train with you, and have their photograph taken with you to lend authenticity to any schools they may open.


 
Ahhh yes... I see you too have meant my first CMA sifu


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## Ben Grimm (Mar 12, 2009)

I can beat your Xue Fu with my Chain Punches of Torment Attack. LOL!


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## Hand Sword (Mar 13, 2009)

I can picture a great video game from this like a type of Mortal Kombat! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			






FLAWLESS VICTORY!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Hagakure (Mar 13, 2009)

Ben Grimm said:


> I can beat your Xue Fu with my Chain Punches of Torment Attack. LOL!


 

Xue Fu? I like that. Don't tell Xue though, we won't hear the end of it.


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## Xue Sheng (Mar 13, 2009)

Ben Grimm said:


> I can beat your Xue Fu with my Chain Punches of Torment Attack. LOL!


 
Obviously one who does not know the ways of Xuefu :mst:


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## Hagakure (Mar 13, 2009)

Xue Sheng said:


> Obviously one who does not know the ways of Xuefu :mst:


 
Kick his butt Xue! Fight! Fight! Fight! Fight!


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## JGreber (Mar 17, 2009)

Thank you so much for this reply. Every martial art has techniques. How you implement them is up to you and how you have trained.


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## JGreber (Mar 17, 2009)

mook jong man said:


> No absolutely none , we use mind control to subdue our opponents and through the sheer force of our will we cause them to chain punch themselves to death.


 

LOL! Thanks for that reply man.


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## Ben Grimm (Mar 17, 2009)

Xue, it's on. LOL! Chain Punches of TORMENT!!!!!


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