# training with smaller women



## fighterman (Dec 20, 2011)

hi guys thought Id leave you some of these vids of one of my female students half my size. shes enthusiastic and really wants to beat stronger people. appreciate your views


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## WTchap (Dec 20, 2011)

Hi Fighterman,

Generally speaking, I like the drills and like the fact she is willing to put herself under a little pressure and pain (I just know her arms/wrists were sore after some of the drills). 

You probably do it already, but I like to see female students working hard to issue good, heavy punches. This is one of the most important things for a female student, in my opinion, who is learning for self defense: the ability to really hurt someone with the punches they throw.

For this reason, I am not too keen on seeing drills that feature takedowns. You have to be very, very good to (at half your opponent's weight) deal with a heavy attack and resistance and break their balance in order to control them to takedown... where you don't get dragged to floor with them. 

Against a resisting opponent, it is easy for physical strength to play a large role, and this already puts a woman (in most cases) at a disadvantage.

But I like the fact you put her through her paces.


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## jedtx88 (Dec 20, 2011)

Try and only pair her up with people who will attack and defend to the best of their abilities.  No matter the size difference.


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## fighterman (Dec 20, 2011)

thanks for ther tips. ive got plenty of vids where we wear head gear so i might put some of those in the future


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## mook jong man (Dec 20, 2011)

I don't know much about the W.T. method only what people on here have told me and I've seen a few clips.

I watched the first few vids and there are a couple of things that I might do slightly different.

I would get rid of that first elbow she does and change that to a side slash (fak sau) to the neck , the reason being because if her elbow gets parried she can be controlled from there and pushed right off balance.

The side slash is less risky and any attempt at parrying or pushing the elbow can be easily countered by converting to Tan Sau.
The second elbow is ok or alternatively you could get rid of that too , and go from Fak Sau to the neck then with the same arm she can latch your shoulder down and knee strike you in the groin, then she can use the second elbow to finish you off by striking down on the back of your neck.

With the take down instead of her putting her arm around your neck , you could try having her drive her fingers up into the eye sockets in conjunction with the shoulder spin that you were doing.

It will have the same effect but less effort involved just make sure she pushes her fingers up into the eye sockets to get the head to go back and then once the head is back she must press down with her hand and this will cause the take down as the head is taken out of alignment with the spine.

But good on her for having a go and training with a big brute like you.


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## Cyriacus (Dec 20, 2011)

I Approve, Mook Jong Man, but for different Reasons 
I am not speaking as a CMA Practitioner of course, but Overall.



mook jong man said:


> I don't know much about the W.T. method only what people on here have told me and I've seen a few clips.
> 
> I watched the first few vids and there are a couple of things that I might do slightly different.
> 
> ...



And other than that, I like the fact that Shes Training with People bigger than Her.
I believe that if You are always against someone better and stronger in Training, someone smaller and less skilled is nothing.


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## mook jong man (Dec 20, 2011)

Cyriacus said:


> I Approve, Mook Jong Man, but for different Reasons
> I am not speaking as a CMA Practitioner of course, but Overall.
> 
> 
> ...




I'm glad you approve.



Cyriacus said:


> *Never mind Balance. The Range of Motion was too small. The Elbow  ultimately wouldnt have done much more than set up the second Elbow. In  terms of Economy of Movement, the Strike to the Neck would be far more  Efficient.*



I mentioned balance because any one who does chi sau knows that once that upper arm past the elbow joint is controlled then you are in a world of trouble as it can be used to turn you to the side where you are easily destabilised and opened up to strikes.

The range of motion is ok , power can still be generated from there , but it definitely helps if your already trained in the Biu Tze form so you can utilise the upper body rotation.



Cyriacus said:


> Or to the Ribs, allowing You some more Targets afterward. I also  think itd be more Reliable. But really, this is subjective. The Groin  would work fine, from My Visualisation.[/B]



Generally speaking when you latch a man down from the shoulder and pull him into a knee strike to the groin he will fold at the hips and end up in a semi crouched position.
From there you pivot and rotate the elbow from the  shoulder bringing the elbow strike crashing down on the back of his neck/ side of the upper jaw , you don't need any more targets that is a finishing technique.



Cyriacus said:


> *Back to Economy of Movement. Instead of just being a Hold to aid the  Takedown, the Fingers would Harm the Opponent even if He were to not be  Taken Down, thereby ensuring Productivity.*



It's not really a Wing Chun technique , at least not of my lineage.
We used to do it in knife defence techniques in another system I did quite a while ago.
But as far as takedowns go it is pretty fast and easy and doesn't require any strength , the fact his eyes might get damaged is just a bonus.
Don't forget where the head goes the body follows.


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## fighterman (Dec 20, 2011)

great tips, thanks guys....


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## KamonGuy2 (Dec 21, 2011)

Being a big guy, I know what works for small guys (as a lot of my training partners are smaller than me). Try and get your student to work on putting her body behind the hit. Drills are good just for getting the technique right, but its no good drilling in techniques where she is reaching to hit (in the first video the elbow is too far away). 

It is good to see that you are teaching her elbows as opposed to far away punches (if she is up against a big guy, she needs to get in close where her strikes will have more weight). 

My general advice would be to get her hitting pads with her elbow strikes. Slow it down so that she can feel the body mechanics. There are a lot of 'arts' out there where women end up doing bad strikes and thinking they are the dogs b*llocks. Its important to make sure that she realises that takedowns and thousands of weak punches arent the way to go, and to continue drilling in things that will work

Good luck dude


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## fighterman (Dec 22, 2011)

great Kamon thanks


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## WingChunIan (Jan 11, 2012)

Only my opinion but personally I'd have her using her legs to drive her whole body more rather than upper body motions and would encourage her to focus on volume rather than one or two shots. I'd second the posts about using the eyes, chin or nose as levers to move the head but would also add that if she gets her hips square then the footwork from the opening of bui jee can be used to disrupt the balance rather than upper body motion which it appear to be in the vid (although vids can obviously be very deceiving). Only my thoughts, everyone has different ideas.


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## Domino (Jan 12, 2012)

Enjoyed watching your videos and learnt something myself.
I agree about training with someone bigger than you, doing that myself at the moment. She (your student) will be a beast.
One thing I saw, trying to deliver those elbows to a man of your size she is leaning forward a bit, we have all done it. Just good to 'nip it in the bud' so to speak.


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## onthechin (Jan 17, 2012)

I watched 3 of the videos and it all seemed to be rubbish. She will not be able to defend herself against any real attack. Sorry but to bring reality back into the equation...all she's doing is throwing a half arsed attempt at an elbow in each, against an opponent who's not trying to attack her. Dare I say it another example of giving the gentler sex false confidence? She'd be better off running.


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## Cyriacus (Jan 17, 2012)

onthechin said:


> I watched 3 of the videos and it all seemed to be rubbish. She will not be able to defend herself against any real attack. Sorry but to bring reality back into the equation...all she's doing is throwing a half arsed attempt at an elbow in each, against an opponent who's not trying to attack her. Dare I say it another example of giving the gentler sex false confidence? She'd be better off running.


Killing Your Partners tends to leave You without much capability with which to Train. That said, She should be putting more effort into it.


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## onthechin (Jan 17, 2012)

Fair enough, when you spar with a guy who you hold as a friend it's a little hard to put too much aggression into it..that being said, they're equally amicable when it comes to the accidental punch in the nose. I just think those videos are basically what you don't want to see in WC. No footwork, no follow through, no anything...she's not learning how to fight she's simply doing a drill over and over..


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## geezer (Jan 18, 2012)

onthechin said:


> I watched 3 of the videos and it all seemed to be rubbish. She will not be able to defend herself against any real attack. Sorry but to bring reality back into the equation...all she's doing is throwing a half arsed attempt at an elbow in each, against an opponent who's not trying to attack her. Dare I say it another example of giving the gentler sex false confidence? She'd be better off running.



_Rubbish?_ Hey _Onthechin_, lighten up a bit! I don't recall anything in the OP about this being some kind of Reality-Based Self-Defense training. It's just an exaample of a smallish woman enthusiastically training against a large and powerful training partner. Even in standard drills, there is value in getting used to training hard against a large, strong partner without getting intimidated. Sparring and hard core self-defense drills could come later. Regardless, I think she shows good spirit.


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## TaiChiTJ (Jan 18, 2012)

Geezer is right. It's clear she's new at this and just getting her bearings. If he's a half way decent teacher, and it certainly appears that he is, she will show more confidence and ability and knowledge in 4-6 months. Good stuff.


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## wushuguy (Jan 18, 2012)

_Onthechin_, Other people's training methods might look different than yours, and also don't know their background. She looks obviously like a beginner, but she's got the right start. It's important for her to train against stronger people, and that her teacher is larger and stronger, will give her the advantage as he has control over his strength and use it appropriately as she progresses.

Fighterman, thanks for sharing the vids. It's always great to see other's ideas and ways of thinking. I also teach petite women, but the methods we use are different, I suppose because my body size is smaller, and my sifu was short, so I had used different techniques against my larger sihing and other opponents.

I show them what worked for me and why it works against larger opponents, then after they have trained a few months, I bring in some of my larger private-students for them to try the self-defense principles against an unknown person, albeit in a controlled environment. It's intimidating and pressure testing. But I found that works for me, because of my smaller stature, i'm not intimidating on my own and i don't intend to be. 

I look forward to seeing other videos you post.


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## Cyriacus (Jan 18, 2012)

Im inclined to think Onthechin is right, even if he is a bit enthusiastic about it. Its a repetition drill, which is more for confidence than application.


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## WingChunIan (Jan 20, 2012)

this is the problem with vids. To be able to comment 100% accurately you need to know the background etc otherwise observations are just based on snap shots. If this student practises this drill over time (and i've already made observations on the clip previously) and works to improve her timing and distance along with her power, then when she comes to pressure test it, there is a higher chance of it working rather than all falling apart and leading to a loss of confidence.


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## fighterman (Jan 20, 2012)

curious point. but if i dont drill over and over then how do i learn how to deal with differing applications?


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## fighterman (Jan 20, 2012)

wushuguy said:


> _Onthechin_, Other people's training methods might look different than yours, and also don't know their background. She looks obviously like a beginner, but she's got the right start. It's important for her to train against stronger people, and that her teacher is larger and stronger, will give her the advantage as he has control over his strength and use it appropriately as she progresses.
> 
> Fighterman, thanks for sharing the vids. It's always great to see other's ideas and ways of thinking. I also teach petite women, but the methods we use are different, I suppose because my body size is smaller, and my sifu was short, so I had used different techniques against my larger sihing and other opponents.
> 
> ...


thank you


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## oftheherd1 (Jan 20, 2012)

fighterman said:


> curious point. but if i dont drill over and over then how do i learn how to deal with differing applications?



I eagerly await the reply as I wondered as well. I always thought that was part of MA for learning, and to make responses instinctively reactive.

BTW, thanks for sharing the videos.


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## wushuguy (Jan 21, 2012)

fighterman said:


> curious point. but if i dont drill over and over then how do i learn how to deal with differing applications?



I think repetition and increased understanding is the key. Many women and men, looking to take a "self-defense" class, just want "the basics", meaning most look for learning a few simple "moves" that they can be confident with... which they will memorize by doing repetitions. If they are comfortable with this, they may be able to apply it or not, however I feel it leaves much to be desired. Too many people think self-defense is achieved by a few moves and doing it well. But it takes them to have experience and gain an understanding to realize that they must and can apply those "basics" in other situations. Hopefully it leads them to realize that there's no "fast and easy course for self-defense" like some are advertising, it takes months, years, of work. Of which, repetition is only one aspect to achieve muscle memory and reflex, it does not drill one into being a fighter.


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## onthechin (Jan 21, 2012)

Exactly..MA isnt something that you can become good at without devoting a huge part of your time to. And I dont think theres anything wrong with saying a certain video is rubbish if thats what it is. My reply would have been different in the first instance had the girl done anything in terms of finishing except for throw the same elbow.


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## onthechin (Jan 22, 2012)

fighterman said:


> curious point. but if i dont drill over and over then how do i learn how to deal with differing applications?



Well basically you'll never really learn how to fight until you stop thinking of fighting as learning drills. Fighting is practice, footwork, getting hit and learning range..


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## fighterman (Jan 25, 2012)

onthechin said:


> Well basically you'll never really learn how to fight until you stop thinking of fighting as learning drills. Fighting is practice, footwork, getting hit and learning range..


drilling in actuality is a methiod used to build peoples reflexes up gradually, it starts from basic movements so people can get used to the mos timportant part whcih is motor coordination. secondly you can add pressure, thridly you can add variety and confusion then gradually build it up to sponataneous attacks. hitting people especially people who dont train as a profession will only create more damage and will help no one


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## onthechin (Jan 27, 2012)

One of the main reason boxers do so well is not because they have a great style (They dont use anything but their fists) but because they are willing to hit and get hit. Yes, do your drills but also put them into practice. Create a situation where they need to defend themselves before they can do what theyve been taught. IF the ultimate aim is that this girl can fight and defend herself against real attackers then there is no way around actually practicing a real scenario, forcing her to take some punches, forcing her to put the pressure on her opponent and forcing her to end the fight.


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## geezer (Jan 27, 2012)

onthechin said:


> IF the_ ultimate_ aim is that this girl can fight and defend herself against real attackers then there is no way around actually practicing a real scenario, forcing her to take some punches, forcing her to put the pressure on her opponent and forcing her to end the fight.



"Ultimate" means "final" ...as in end product. It takes a while to get there. Especially for "smaller women" who may not have much experience with physical aggression. An instructor has to lead them to that point, step by step. Drills like this are part of that process. As a teacher by profession (outside of the martial arts) I'm keenly aware of this. BTW, _"On the chin"_ what's your background? (Didn't see much in your profile).


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## ATACX GYM (Jan 27, 2012)

I'll respond to this later but I feel pretty certain that I can really help out here, being a guy on the smaller side at 5'7" and about 160 and having a whole crew of women and kids who  are 5 feet or shorter who I train [ they call themselves The 5 Footers] but I will have to get back to you guys another day. But it will be soon, and I will have very exact specifics using the stuff that our friend with the OP already did with his client. Good job btw man.


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## Jenna (Jan 28, 2012)

onthechin said:


> Create a situation where they need to defend themselves before they can do what theyve been taught.


Maybe I am being dumb and but that does not seem to be a statement that makes sense? How is one meant to defend oneself using techniques one does not yet have?? Thank you.


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## Jenna (Jan 28, 2012)

fighterman said:


> hi guys thought Id leave you some of these vids of one of my female students half my size. shes enthusiastic and really wants to beat stronger people. appreciate your views


Great videos, thank you so much for posting! It is fantastic to see you working like this with her.  Plus she looks as if she is _enjoying _her training! I am really encouraged.  If it is ok to make one point?  She does appear to be moving heavily onto her back foot when you are attacking.  I would worry that you could simply push her over before she can counter.  I appreciate that she is learning and I do not wish to be harsh or critical and but perhaps rooted stance is something to work into her training from the beginning. I am glad you are giving her resistance from the get go, this is all wonderful to see.  I wish you every success and hope posting these encourages others to take your lead. Jenna.


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## fighterman (Jan 30, 2012)

jenna said:


> maybe i am being dumb and but that does not seem to be a statement that makes sense? How is one meant to defend oneself using techniques one does not yet have?? Thank you.



hi jenna thanks for the advice will do as you say. Take care


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## geezer (Jan 30, 2012)

Jenna said:


> ...She does appear to be *moving heavily onto her back foot* when you are attacking. I would worry that you could simply push her over before she can counter. I appreciate that she is learning and I do not wish to be harsh or critical and but perhaps rooted stance is something to work into her training from the beginning...



_Jenna_, I'm responding on a break at work and videos are screened out, so I can't go back watch the clips again to check out the young woman's stances. Nevertheless, I'd like to point out that Fighterman's Wing Chun evolves from the WT lineage. Like me he trained under Leung Ting, and back weighting is _fundamental_ to this system, especially when turning to "dissolve" an attack. It is difficult to master this, but when mastered, it is very effective. Of course this takes a while to get down. Anyway, this might explain what you were observing.


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## onthechin (Jan 30, 2012)

Well I said "What they have been taught" so obviously they already know the technique/s. Perhaps I should've said "Create a situation where they need to defend themselves IN WHICH they can do what they've been taught". Sorry for the confusion..what I'm really getting at is for an instructor to teach a technique and then have the student do it over and over (video after video) against someone who is offering no resistance whatsoever, is really quite useless in terms of benefit to the student. It's not something confined to 1 or 2 MA schools, its endemic. How many people have been taught techniques in class, paired up and the 'aggressor' is told not to make the attack realistic, not to try to defend against the counter...basically to stand there like a dummy? Maybe do it like that once or twice to get a feel for the technique but then the pressure has to be put on if you want to be able to transfer the technique from the classroom to the street.


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## ATACX GYM (Jan 31, 2012)

fighterman said:


> hi guys thought Id leave you some of these vids of one of my female students half my size. shes enthusiastic and really wants to beat stronger people. appreciate your views




I like your videos. Keep the drills going man. As a smaller man at 5'7" 160lbs or less who also is a lifelong martial artist with multiple 5th dans, I think I can offer a couple of suggestions that might be helpful:

Change the head grab or insert a groin strike prior to the head grab takedown. The reason I would suggest that is because she's smaller and women tend to possess inferior upper body strength which could make a life and death or raped and not raped difference between themselves and a large male like yourselves attacking them. She should devastate targets that are closer to her, lower on her adversary and harder for him to defend. Testicle shots, inside ankle stomps, knee wheels, leg stomps, trips, liver and kidney blasts, sternum throat and eye blows etc etc [careful on the throat and eye shots like bil jee because the higher she reaches on her adversary the more disadvantaged she is and the easier it is for him to note the attack and thus defend it ] should all precede high percentage takedowns more amenable to her size and taking advantage of a woman's hip power like: single and double legs, kouchi kosoto harai and ogoshis, irimis [ not yet irimi nagas, just the irimis in conjunction with the strikes that you taught her to displace her attacker damage him and allow her to escape], and various trips and push offs that we can get from a combo of say wing chun's traps low line kicks and wrestling/judo/tai chi/aikido trips unbalances and displacements [inclusive of foot sweeps and foot stops].

Once you decide what blows you can teach her that can be aimed to say the groin and other more accessible but high percentage high pain targets, and once you decide upon the alternative to the head grab [ or the "takedown B" tech in case the head grab takedown doesn't work; you're the instructor, you know your client, and I am in no way trying to imose upon intercede in or superimpose my opinions and training model upon you ] you simply insert it into the drills that you are already doing. This way you get to keep that all important muscle memory up you've already built up in her, you just are functionalizing it even further. And then you start setting say 3 minute rounds wherein she has to defend your attacks and respond with the drill that you taught her and get say 45 reps done prior to the 3 minutes being up. That's about 1 full rep inclusive of the takedown every 4 seconds. You, sir, are gonna take alotta falls, so I recommend that you both pad up and alternate with say a heavy bag or B.O.B. because not only will that save you a pretty fair number of bumps and bruises, it allows you to step back and correct her technique, foot and hand placement, eliminate telegraps, etc etc.

After a hour or two of this kind of training, you increase the intensity of your resistance to her. You attack from different angles. You attack her from the back. You start her reacting defensively from a rear bear hug attack which she must defeat using the same drills that you taught her just modified for this situation. Then do it again from her back. And then once she's comfy there? Link the new positions to her original position. Perhaps you attack her from the side and in the process of dealing with the scramble you two wind up face to face like you did when you first showed her the tech or perhaps you tackle her to the ground, she fights you off using the same drills you taught her just modified for the ground and then as you two scramble to your feet she repeats the drill standing against you. Maybe you sneak her from the side and press a wooden knife against her. She uses her drill modified for this situation, disarms you,engages you standing up as you two scramble and jockey for position,she does the original drill again and then she escapes. Etc etc. You get the idea you can take it from here.

I realize that what I recommend is for some people alot of work, but it will pay off immensely and quicky. I am not kidding when I say that 3 hours of this training will yield a giant difference in your client's physical fitness and technical ability. I recommend that you have her put in no more than 7-10 rounds at 3 minutes apiece when you train, and have her  rep it out on her own when you're not with her directly. I do this all the time with my clients and I get results that are night and day in less than 8 hours of such training every single time. No matter what they want to achieve. You will too. I also tend to start my newbs out with 4 rounds of this tops. The physical energies expended are quite significant at first, and she will definitely feel it the next day. But as her body adjusts [ usually about 4 training sessions, and recommend that she take Glutamine the natural amino acid which will vastly accelerate her recovery rate] to the new stress levels, her techs and her physical fitness will skyrocket to new levels.

Good luck and please tell me how it goes if you decide to employ any of the suggestions above.


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## onthechin (Jan 31, 2012)

She should  be able to do it in a SD situation...there's no point attacking her from the side with no intent, from the back with no intent...she needs to be able to use it when attacked WITH intent. I like how you say "increase the intensity of your resistance to her" When you say things like..."she's comfy there"..Heres a novel idea..teach someone/some people how to fight the real way - ie. by doing it. Dont ask for money, just for friendship and comittment, but put the effort in required to teach them how to fight - years.Problem is so many people here are making money teaching multiple people. Hasn't MA traditionally been a 1 person teach 1 person kind of thing?


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## geezer (Jan 31, 2012)

_OnTheChin... _OK we get it. You're all about RBSD. Is that what you train? Have you taught many women, and if so, how did they respond to your approach? 

BTW when it comes to injecting some _reality_ into training, I think you'll find that _Fighterman _works harder at it than most. Check out some of his sparring videos on youtube.


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## wtxs (Jan 31, 2012)

onthechin said:


> Hasn't MA traditionally been a 1 person teach 1 person kind of thing?



No, no, and no.


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## ATACX GYM (Jan 31, 2012)

onthechin said:


> She should  be able to do it in a SD situation...there's no point attacking her from the side with no intent, from the back with no intent...she needs to be able to use it when attacked WITH intent. I like how you say "increase the intensity of your resistance to her" When you say things like..."she's comfy there"..Heres a novel idea..teach someone/some people how to fight the real way - ie. by doing it. Dont ask for money, just for friendship and comittment, but put the effort in required to teach them how to fight - years.Problem is so many people here are making money teaching multiple people. Hasn't MA traditionally been a 1 person teach 1 person kind of thing?



All of my training has an escalating level of resistance commisserate with the ability of the student's skill level. But make no mistake: we go all out or very close to 100% once you get confident in your skill and ability. This kind of training actually is several times harder physically than the SD situation itself, as most attackers lack the skill stamina will athleticism technique and mindset of the well trained athletic self-defense oriented martial artist. In the same sense that you can practice defending the guard or breaking mount or various blows throws and takedowns full force? I simply recommend that we link this escalating of resistance and power applied to the various skill sets and drills required to have real skill in a particular situation.

It's hard to pass a pretty decent martial artist's guard. It's harder to perform 45 passes in 3 minutes. It's very very hard to do so when the martial artist is resisting you full tilt boogie...and that's what the methods that I teach and the suggestion that I gave build towards. 

It's absolutely every bit as essential to BUILD TOWARD GOING FULL POWER as it is to actuallly PRACTICE FULL POWER. Too many people--especially RBSD folks--don't properly cogitate upon this maxim nor inculcate its practice. When I say "she's comfy there" it's because she's developed the requisite physical mental technical skill to know that she can competently defend such and such attack from such and such angle at such and such intensity. She's grown as a martial artist and person. Now increase the intensity of the attack and requirements so that she's no longer so comfy, and she has to strive reach work sweat bleed grunt and work to achieve the skill to thwart the new level of attack. Repeat ad infinitum ad nauseum. Then do it ad infinitum some more. I recognize, on thechin, that you don't know me or my practices so you don't know that apparently we share quite a bit in common insofar as the importance of real world performance as the ultimate goal is concerned.

I tell my students that if they train a give tech with me for 24 hours they can fight pretty much anyone on the street full tilt boogie with that specific tech. In 8 hours or less they will be able to fight off an attacker that they couldn't fight off when they first met me and walked into my Gym door. That's how result oriented and specific the ladder of performance is for me and my Gym. I  guarantee it or you get your money back.


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## onthechin (Jan 31, 2012)

No,no and no? To qoute someone else on this forum..."

So, it's a young art for a kung fu style. (only about 200 years old)
It's been tested time and time again in the heat of battle.
It's been largely taught to only one or two students of a master at a time, until GM Yip Man who taught many.
Ex. Some say it came from a nun (or 5 monks, whatever)
she or they had One official student, Yim Wing Chun.
She taught only her husband.
He taught only like two people. and so on and so on until GM Yip Man. WC was largely passed down to only a very select few. Why? I don't know."

ATACX GYM, thank you for replying so comprehensively and explaining exactly what you're trying to achieve and how you're going about it. I understand it now and give you the respect that's due.
I'm not sure whether I'm 'all about RBSD' or not..who wouldnt be?  I'm about reality based martial arts. I'm about lots of sparring and the teacher really trying to prepare his/her students for the real world whilst always having friendship at the core of the relationship.


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## mook jong man (Feb 2, 2012)

Give the woman a bloody break , it's obvious to anybody that has taught Wing Chun that she is a beginner.
She's doing alright , shes' getting some decent conditioning on those forearms learning to take all the Pak sau's and arm clashes that are part and parcel of training and she's still going.
He is an instructor that has been training a long time so his arms are going to be very friggin hard indeed.

I've had teenage boys quit after one session because they couldn't handle the knocks on their arms.

But anyway I digress.
Fighterman she is doing well but may I suggest she sink her weight down and keep her back straight she is getting thrown around a bit .

Maybe you could try getting her to do Lap Sau instead so she can try using two hands against your one , I think that maybe what your getting her to do might be a tad advanced for her.
I'd probably get her to do some double sticking hands with no attacks but just start moving around vigorously a bit to get her to concentrate on her stance and staying sunk down , try and throw her around a bit.

She just doesn't have the stability in her stance yet to make the redirections work properly , also get her to pivot when she does make contact with you so that she can dissipate some of your incoming force so that she doesn't get rocked back in her stance .

Getting back to the takedowns , maybe just lose them altogether and get her to finish off with a hook kick.

Once she's a bit more solid in her stance then will be the time to start the process of ramping it up a bit and adding random elements with greater intensity , but she has to learn to walk first before she can run.
But your an instructor you already knew that didn't you , I am also guilty of pushing people along rather fast too.


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## fighterman (Feb 3, 2012)

ATACX GYM said:


> I like your videos. Keep the drills going man. As a smaller man at 5'7" 160lbs or less who also is a lifelong martial artist with multiple 5th dans, I think I can offer a couple of suggestions that might be helpful:
> 
> Change the head grab or insert a groin strike prior to the head grab takedown. The reason I would suggest that is because she's smaller and women tend to possess inferior upper body strength which could make a life and death or raped and not raped difference between themselves and a large male like yourselves attacking them. She should devastate targets that are closer to her, lower on her adversary and harder for him to defend. Testicle shots, inside ankle stomps, knee wheels, leg stomps, trips, liver and kidney blasts, sternum throat and eye blows etc etc [careful on the throat and eye shots like bil jee because the higher she reaches on her adversary the more disadvantaged she is and the easier it is for him to note the attack and thus defend it ] should all precede high percentage takedowns more amenable to her size and taking advantage of a woman's hip power like: single and double legs, kouchi kosoto harai and ogoshis, irimis [ not yet irimi nagas, just the irimis in conjunction with the strikes that you taught her to displace her attacker damage him and allow her to escape], and various trips and push offs that we can get from a combo of say wing chun's traps low line kicks and wrestling/judo/tai chi/aikido trips unbalances and displacements [inclusive of foot sweeps and foot stops].
> 
> ...


hi thanks,
i usually try tom listen to all opinions so i will be givibg it a go, theres always more than one view to reality


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## noob (Feb 18, 2012)

Looks good to me but I'm a noob! It seems much better than the lessons I was taking and I went there for three months did sweet fa.


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## WC_lun (Feb 18, 2012)

Gotta drill to make the body mechanics natural.  That takes a lot of repitition. The danger of that is you start training to the drill, either trying to defeat the drill or cheating movements out of the drill.  This is one of the areas a good teacher and a good training partner are VERY important.  When the drill is becoming something else, then apply some pressure, to snap it back to the original training focus.  As the student becomes better you apply more pressure.

Drills are to get basic movements into body memory and basic concepts into a student's awareness.  Once this happens, the techniques themselves become not important, because the student will react as they need to based upon thier training.  That takes a while.


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## Tony Dismukes (Feb 19, 2012)

Not a Wing Chun practitioner, but I'll add my two cents as someone who has worked with partners with significant size differentials.

I like the fact that as a obvious beginner she's enthusiastic about working with someone much larger.  That bodes well for her future training.

I assume you're working with her to improve her structure and balance so she won't just get immediately bowled over by someone much larger who comes at her harder than you're currently doing in these drills.  I would really make a high priority of helping her understand the Wing Chun structure for putting the full body behind the punches.  Right now she's punching strictly with her arms and her punches would have just about zero effect on someone your size.   (From what I've seen I think that's probably a common problem with beginners in Wing Chun, since the connection between the body and the punches is more subtle than in boxing where you can see the whole body pivoting into a punch.  The point is that at her size she can't get away with arm punching if she's going to have a chance against the big guys.)

I can't tell for sure, because the camera angle was only covering the top half of your bodies, but on the first drill with the elbow strikes it looked like she was having to compromise her structure in order to reach up to your head with her elbows. If her height won't allow her to reach that high without losing her good form I would have her save that technique for shorter opponents and come up with something different for the tall guys.

Regarding the takedown, once again the camera doesn't show the lower body so I may be missing something.  If I'm understanding the technique properly, I don't think there's much chance that she'll be able to use that takedown against someone of your height and weight for a long, long, long time, if ever.  Admittedly, getting a takedown against someone twice your weight is going to be hard no matter what technique you use unless you're really good.  Even so, I think that particular takedown is going to be problematic for her given the size differential and it's going to leave her in a vulnerable place when she tries it and it doesn't work.

Overall, I liked the way you were working with her.  You give her enough pressure to stretch her comfort zone but not so much that she gets flustered and forgets the technique she's working on.  I assume that as she develops you'll ramp up the intensity accordingly.  Thanks for sharing.  Now I'm going to check out some of your other videos.


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