# Moving to the Pacific Northwest?



## Flea (Aug 30, 2009)

I'm struggling mightily with a wonderful problem, and I'm hoping someone here can offer some thoughts ...

I'm moving out of my neighborhood in any case, and I have the option of moving out West, a place I've always dreamed of living.  Most of my extended family on my mother's side has been gravitating to Oregon over the last several years.  My family is _very_ cool with virtually no drama (the only dramatic relative moved to Malawi last year, much to everyone's relief.)

A big factor holding me back is financial concerns.  I have a low income and a limited working capacity.  I'm in the Midwest right now and I can get by comfortably on about $1600 a month for everything.  It's not glamorous by any means, but I've always been very frugal by nature.  I know that the cost of living is higher out there and I'm worried about housing - if I have to live in a neighborhood as bad as my current situation, I'd rather stay put.  With three pets I don't think I'd be able to stay with any of my relatives, and because of my personal ethics I refuse to ask them for money.  _Can_ one get by on $1600 a month out there?  I'd love to hear from some locals on this.  

As far as my current situation, I have a lot of things encouraging me to stay.  I've been in this city almost ten years and I have deep roots.  I've been working very hard as a mental health advocate and it's paying off in a big way - our support group has expanded its membership tenfold since 2000.  When a huge new clinic opened this summer at the local university, the director went out of his way to collaborate with us on meeting community needs.  Most recently I've been invited to sit on an advisory panel for state government policy on mental health care.  That's a lot of wheel to reinvent.  As far as my paying job, I telecommute for a company based out of state, and I hope to set up a freelance writing and editing business some day.  So that's utterly portable.

Still, it's an intuitive thing; my gut is telling me that it's time to move on.  There's nothing _wrong_ (spiritually) with signing on for another term here symbolically by buying a house locally in a new neighborhood.  But I'll grow as a person faster and more solidly somewhere else.  This feeling is pretty compelling; every time I make a serious move toward buying here I feel all hinky inside.

It's tough because this indecision has me chasing my tail - I'm afraid to list my condo for sale until I make this decision.  This fear has extended to making any renovations so I can list it - why buy a new carpet when I like the one I have, if it's just going to wind up smelling like dog by the time a buyer takes possession anyway?  I'm becoming paralyzed.  It's such a problem that I bought a bunch of new switchplates, and I can't even bring myself to put those up.  It's embarrassing.

So please, I'm begging you.  Tell me where to live!  :uhyeah:  :lol:  Seriously; my main question for any locals who live in the Pacific NW would be financial - how much does housing run out there, and can one survive with some dignity on about $18K a year?  I'd even be willing to consider a trailer park if it was _safe_.  I'm no diva, I just want something a little better than where I'm living now.

Thank you.


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## Blindside (Aug 30, 2009)

Like in most things, "it depends."

Seattle housing is pretty high, average house sales are around high $300,000s and falling, last I heard Portland was low 200,000s and falling.  In comparison, where I live in eastern WA, a new entry level house can be bought for 110,000 and rising as we are in a little mini-boom here due to the federal stimulus funding.  The Tri-Cities in wa (Richland, Kennewick, Pasco) are considered the metropolitan area in the PNW with the lowest cost of living.

I would jump on windermere.com to get an idea about housing costs.  It is a real estate company, but it has a decent search engine.


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## Flea (Aug 30, 2009)

Thanks for the link.

For contrast, I expect to get about $60-65K out of my little 2BR condo in the hood.  It's about 600 square feet.  A house I like in my (local) target neighborhood is 3BR and $70K.  It's still very much urban, but a lot calmer.

I suspect a lot of this is going to come down to stepping out on Faith ... but it never hurts to buttress that faith as much as possible.


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## Flea (Aug 31, 2009)

Blindside, that link is fantastic!  I've looked at a lot of real estate websites, and all I'd found in the NW were a bunch of foreclosed fleabags for over $100K.  Granted, all they had were thumbnails of properties, but I found literally dozens of condos and houses in my range.  It was very liberating.  It may add years to my indecision.  :lol2:


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## Tez3 (Aug 31, 2009)

Flea, I think you should emigrate to North Yorkshire here and live in the Dales! You can commune with sheep, wear your welies and grow your own veg lol! Oh and train with us!!

http://www.swaledale.net/


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## Steve (Aug 31, 2009)

Flea, you can definitely make it, although if you're looking for an urban setting AND a relatively safe area, it would be tight.  My wife and I talk about the cost of living around here.  I'm from Texas and my wife is from Iowa, and it's fun to think about what our money could buy out there.  But then... we'd live there and not here.  Every time I drive to work with Mount Rainier looking like it's so close I can touch it, with the Cascade mountains off to my left and the puget sound and Olympic Mountains off to my right, I can easily see why it's a little more expensive here.

I've never lived in Portland, although I've been there many times and it's also very nice.

Tez, in most of the USA, communing with sheep is illegal.


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## Tez3 (Aug 31, 2009)

stevebjj said:


> Flea, you can definitely make it, although if you're looking for an urban setting AND a relatively safe area, it would be tight. My wife and I talk about the cost of living around here. I'm from Texas and my wife is from Iowa, and it's fun to think about what our money could buy out there. But then... we'd live there and not here. Every time I drive to work with Mount Rainier looking like it's so close I can touch it, with the Cascade mountains off to my left and the puget sound and Olympic Mountains off to my right, I can easily see why it's a little more expensive here.
> 
> I've never lived in Portland, although I've been there many times and it's also very nice.
> 
> *Tez, in most of the USA, communing with sheep is illegal*.


 
LOl, it's why we wear wellies here, so the sheep can't get away!

Nice as it is where I live I would love to move down to Cornwall, the problem being house prices up here are relatively cheap compared to down south so it would be hard to move.


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## Steve (Aug 31, 2009)

Tez3 said:


> LOl, it's why we wear wellies here, so the sheep can't get away!
> 
> Nice as it is where I live I would love to move down to Cornwall, the problem being house prices up here are relatively cheap compared to down south so it would be hard to move.


(Sorry I can't post a link for some reason.  )
*Closing Time Footraces Cause Trampling Concern*
*Arkengarthdale, Wales (Reuters) - *
Quitting time in rural Swaledale now leads to quite a footrace out to the sheep fields, where hundreds of the local inhabitants flood the sheep fields. While there are approximately 100 sheep to each inhabitant, when asked why everyone is in such a rush, one local replied, 'Well, you don't want an ugly one!'


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## Tez3 (Aug 31, 2009)

stevebjj said:


> (Sorry I can't post a link for some reason.  )
> *Closing Time Footraces Cause Trampling Concern*
> *Arkengarthdale, Wales (Reuters) - *
> Quitting time in rural Swaledale now leads to quite a footrace out to the sheep fields, where hundreds of the local inhabitants flood the sheep fields. While there are approximately 100 sheep to each inhabitant, when asked why everyone is in such a rush, one local replied, 'Well, you don't want an ugly one!'


 

sounds about right lol!
 I don't get the Wales bit though, Arkengarthdale is just a couple of miles away! 
why do Scotsmen wear kilts?
coz the sheep got used to the sound of zips!

Sorry Flea not helping you with your problem but hopefully making you smile!


Shaun my favourite sheep!


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## Flea (Aug 31, 2009)

Tez3 said:


> LOl, it's why we wear wellies here, so the sheep can't get away!



Tez, I have no idea what wellies are, but after reading this I may never travel to the UK at all!  :uhyeah:


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## Flea (Aug 31, 2009)

stevebjj said:


> Flea, you can definitely make it, although if you're looking for an urban setting AND a relatively safe area, it would be tight.  My wife and I talk about the cost of living around here.  I'm from Texas and my wife is from Iowa, and it's fun to think about what our money could buy out there.  But then... we'd live there and not here.  Every time I drive to work with Mount Rainier looking like it's so close I can touch it, with the Cascade mountains off to my left and the puget sound and Olympic Mountains off to my right, I can easily see why it's a little more expensive here.
> 
> I've never lived in Portland, although I've been there many times and it's also very nice.



Thanks Steve.  Most of my family settled in one small hippie town in Oregon (of course in Oregon that doesn't narrow it down much, does it?)  I thought Portland might be nice because I'm more of a city person.  That, and I think a _little_ distance from family is a healthy thing.  I want to be close enough to get there easily in an emergency, but far enough that Mom can't show up unannounced with a casserole.  Even if she is a good cook.  I was thrilled to find that someone is setting up shop with a Systema school in Portland too.  That makes a huge difference for me.


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## Tez3 (Aug 31, 2009)

Flea said:


> Tez, I have no idea what wellies are, but after reading this I may never travel to the UK at all! :uhyeah:


 

My dear,even the Queen wears wellies! LOL!



 



Wellington boots.

We use them for sport too in wellie throwing competitions.


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## Steve (Aug 31, 2009)

Tez3 said:


> My dear,even the Queen wears wellies! LOL!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Galoshes. We use them for throwing whatever we want, cause that's how we roll in America.

Flea, Whereabouts in Oregon? My brother is down in Eugene, which is pretty nice. Smaller, but still nice. Roy Dean's BJJ school is in Bend. It'd be terrific to train with him.


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## Tez3 (Aug 31, 2009)

stevebjj said:


> Galoshes. We use them for throwing whatever we want, cause that's how we roll in America.
> 
> Flea, Whereabouts in Oregon? My brother is down in Eugene, which is pretty nice. Smaller, but still nice. Roy Dean's BJJ school is in Bend. It'd be terrific to train with him.


LOL!
Flea, it sounds as where ever you go you'll have people you'll know of and a warm welcome!


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## shesulsa (Aug 31, 2009)

Flea said:


> Thanks Steve.  Most of my family settled in one small hippie town in Oregon (of course in Oregon that doesn't narrow it down much, does it?)  I thought Portland might be nice because I'm more of a city person.  That, and I think a _little_ distance from family is a healthy thing.  I want to be close enough to get there easily in an emergency, but far enough that Mom can't show up unannounced with a casserole.  Even if she is a good cook.  I was thrilled to find that someone is setting up shop with a Systema school in Portland too.  That makes a huge difference for me.



Which hippie town would make a big difference as to how much rent you pay.

I will tell you a flat downtown Portland can run upwards of $1000 per month. No matter where you are, downtown is usually much more expensive.  No sales tax in Oregon but your income tax is high. In Washington, you could live in Vancouver or the surrounding area less expensively, pay NO state income tax and hop the bridge (a whopping two miles) to shop tax-free. Everyone does it.

I don't know where you can get a liveable house for 70k anymore, not even in the worse parts of town - the local farm houses are dilapidated for the most part, so if you paid that for a house outright, you'd be needing money for repairs and upgrades ... but you could use that for a nice down.

I understand the Felida area (a district of the City of Vancouver, I believe)  has some very nice living quarters for less money and the area is decent not only in crime stats but also just *pretty.*

If you want to fly out and stay for a day or two in a local hotel I can connect you with a nice and inexpensive hotel and show you around. PM me if you're interested.

But 18K is kinda lean in these parts.  You'd most likely require more income.


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## shesulsa (Aug 31, 2009)

I'll ask, though, about some of the southern cities in Oregon - I hear things are MUUUUCH more "doable" there.


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## Big Don (Aug 31, 2009)

If you don't like rain, the Pacific NW may not be for you. 
OH my god it rains a lot there


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## Flea (Aug 31, 2009)

Tez3 said:


> LOL!
> Flea, it sounds as where ever you go you'll have people you'll know of and a warm welcome!



Yeah, it's funny how these things work out.  One of my neighbors is a very dear friend whose life lost its center a couple years ago - he retired from his career, and was widowed a few months later.  Since then he's just been drifting.  He's met some of my family and they've kind of embraced him.  He's estranged from his own family, and also wanting to leave the neighborhood too.

I started teasing him last year - just move to Portland with me!  You'll have all the family you want, _and_ we can stay neighbors, _and_ leave this crack hood far behind.  Hell, we can even go in on a duplex together.  What's not to love?  It started out as a joke, but I suspect he's thinking it over.  The more I think about it, the more I like the idea too.  Family is crucial to anyone's quality of life.  I'm very lucky to have a solid genetic family, but I don't take my Family Of Choice for granted either, and it would just kill me to lose him.

Yes Steve, most of my family is in Eugene, with one cousin going to school in Portland.  Eugene is beautiful, but it feels a little small for me.  I followed the Eugene paper online for a while, and the day the kindergarten graduation ceremony made the front page with _twelve minutes_ of video I knew it was too placid a hometown for me.  Conflict can be a nuisance at times, but it keeps life interesting.


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## Flea (Aug 31, 2009)

shesulsa said:


> Which hippie town would make a big difference as to how much rent you pay.
> 
> I will tell you a flat downtown Portland can run upwards of $1000 per month. No matter where you are, downtown is usually much more expensive.  No sales tax in Oregon but your income tax is high. In Washington, you could live in Vancouver or the surrounding area less expensively, pay NO state income tax and hop the bridge (a whopping two miles) to shop tax-free. Everyone does it.



Tempting!  And if I was in WA I could enroll in Brian King's Systema class.    The only reason I'm in such an urban setting right now is that it was all I could afford when I was buying.   I don't really consider myself an urban person - my happiest surroundings over the years has been a blue collar suburb, and an artsy-fartsy rural college town.



> I don't know where you can get a liveable house for 70k anymore, not even in the worse parts of town - the local farm houses are dilapidated for the most part, so if you paid that for a house outright, you'd be needing money for repairs and upgrades ... but you could use that for a nice down.


I have a weird arrangement that way; I can't afford rent at all, and I doubt that I'd qualify for the Section 8 subsidy (not that I'd want it.)  I bought my current condo by using a family inheritance to make a 40% down payment.  My monthly mortgage payments are tiny.  I plan to transfer that arrangement Out West once I sell here.  Since I can't work a conventional job, it's the only way I can think of to do it.

There are a lot of Revitalization Grants floating around these days too; I may be able to take advantage of something like that.  Again, I'm no diva, I just want something a little better than where I am now.  That's a pretty broad category.

 :mrtoilet:



> I understand the Felida area (a district of the City of Vancouver, I believe)  has some very nice living quarters for less money and the area is decent not only in crime stats but also just *pretty.*
> 
> If you want to fly out and stay for a day or two in a local hotel I can connect you with a nice and inexpensive hotel and show you around. PM me if you're interested.


Also tempting!  May I ask where you're located?  Are you in Vancouver yourself?

* edit *  I hope I haven't put anyone off with the financial stuff.  I know it's a taboo in some circles to discuss one's finances, but it's a very important part of my situation here.  Besides, it may be helpful for someone else here is in a similar situation.  If anyone following the thread would rather I get more vague, just say so.


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## shesulsa (Aug 31, 2009)

I am in Vancouver, Washington, yes. And if you get tired of Systema, you could pop in for the occasional visit to me.


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## Ironcrane (Sep 1, 2009)

I live in Portland Oregon! And one of the interesting things about living in Portland Or, is that about 40% (possibly even more) of the people I've come across, are all from a different state. A 1 bedroom apartment here will cost 500-600 dollars. I've never even considered looking at a house, as me being able to afford one will never happen.

There are a lot of different types of people here. A lot of yuppies/hippies, drug addicts, (pretending to be) homeless, and gangs. I usually avoid going downtown, as I constantly get bothered by drug dealers, crazy people, and homeless. And I avoid using the #4 bus line as much as possible, as it zigzags its way through every "gang territory" in the northern area.

Also, if you just pick a direction, and start walking, you'll eventually run across a strip club, or a Chinese restaurant. And if you lose your job, you're screwed. Unemployment/underemployment is high, supposedly one of the highest in the U.S.

If you have any questions, I'll do my best to answer.


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## Flea (Sep 1, 2009)

Ironcrane said:


> I live in Portland Oregon! And one of the interesting things about living in Portland Or, is that about 40% (possibly even more) of the people I've come across, are all from a different state.



That sounds like a glowing endorsement to me.



> Also, if you just pick a direction, and start walking, you'll eventually run across a strip club, or a Chinese restaurant. And if you lose your job, you're screwed. Unemployment/underemployment is high, supposedly one of the highest in the U.S.


The job thing is pretty universal right now.  As is the chinese restaurant/titty bar part of the equation.  Wasn't Portland designated as one of the Most Livable Cities a few years back?

A couple years when I first decided to move, I researched cities nationwide ad nauseum.  Oregon cities kept coming up consistently as meeting my criteria - lower crime, natural beauty and quality parks, climate, higher education levels, liberal politics, good transportation options, and so on.  Washington looked pretty good too, but because of my family's location I didn't pay as much attention.  Maybe I should.



> If you have any questions, I'll do my best to answer.


Thank you Ironcrane.  I will certainly get back to you on that.


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## blindsage (Sep 1, 2009)

Well if you are thinking of Washington I might be able to help a little with looking into Seattle and the surrounding areas.  If you are looking for a condo, this is definitely the right time.  Over the last decade developers in the areas invested heavily in condos and the construction of them exploded.  Now the area is heavily over built _and _the market is down.  I've seen a number of new condo project converted to 'luxury' apartments once they open because they know it's going to be almost impossible to make their money back by selling them.  In general Seattle is a very expensive real estate market, even with the market down, so just go into it the wiser.  But again, this is definitely the time to shop for condos.  Maybe google some condo auctions for the area, there's a lot of them now.


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## thardey (Sep 1, 2009)

If you consider Eugene as "one small hippie town in Oregon" Then definitely don't look anywhere other than Portland, and the surrounding suburbs. Hillsboro, Gresham, etc all have their own sub-culture and issues, but are close enough to Portland itself to be interesting.

But, you should also consider that Portland gets more rain than even Eugene, and a lot more rain than where I'm from. People who move there often can't handle it, if they are prone to depression caused by the lack of sun.

I'm from Medford, at the southern end of the state, and it gets rain and fog here all winter, and 100 plus desert-like days in the summer. (We ususally run for the mountains or the coast on those days.) Also, the politics get a lot more conservative as you head south of Salem. Even though the largest percentage of Oregon is liberal, most of that is concentrated in the northwest part of the state.


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## Brian King (Sep 2, 2009)

For what it is worth, Eugene has a VERY good Systema group that I not only can but DO highly and completely recommend.

Regards
Brian King


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## crushing (Sep 2, 2009)

Beervana. . .ummm. . .I mean Portland sounds like an interesting place to me.


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## Flea (Sep 12, 2009)

Brian said:


> For what it is worth, Eugene has a VERY good Systema group that I not only can but DO highly and completely recommend.
> 
> Regards
> Brian King



Thank you Brian.  I googled "Eugene Systema" and came up with this.  Zat him?    And can you tell me anything about the Portland group?


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## Brian King (Sep 12, 2009)

*Flea wrote* 


> Thank you Brian. I googled "Eugene Systema" and came up with this. Zat him?


Yup, Matt runs the study group out of Bests dojo. The Dojo is huge and has multiple work out areas. Matt has a great group of folks training with him. A few of them just attended the Vladimir seminar down in San Francisco. Matt is a professional educator and author and has a great understanding of Systema and ability to teach those understanding to a wide array of students. For folks around that part of Oregon he is a good guy and good to go. 



> "And can you tell me anything about the Portland group? "


 
The group in Eugene is going stronger than the small group(s) in Portland I think. My friend Ken Harper was working a group there but had a family member suffering health issues then had a bout with cancer himself but is back and is training again. I am not sure what their group is doing currently. If you ended up moving to Portland I could put you in touch with them but as said not sure how regular their current training is. Eugene is worth the trip.

Regards
Brian King


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## Flea (Sep 13, 2009)

Flea said:


> It's tough because this indecision has me chasing my tail - I'm afraid to list my condo for sale until I make this decision.  This fear has extended to making any renovations so I can list it - why buy a new carpet when I like the one I have, if it's just going to wind up smelling like dog by the time a buyer takes possession anyway?  I'm becoming paralyzed.  It's such a problem that I bought a bunch of new switchplates, and I can't even bring myself to put those up.  It's embarrassing.



At least I'm decisive in my indecision.  I took a major step today by advertising my favorite piece of furniture on Freecycle.  I loved it to death a long time ago and there's simply no room for it in terms of staging for potential buyers.  I hate to see it go but it's an obstacle to a long overdue life change.  I can always yard-sale a new sofa in my next home.

The contractor comes tomorrow for a thousand small improvements (I wonder if he'd like the sofa?)  This afternoon I loaned my beloved solid-pine-wrought-iron bed frame to a friend who's just returned home from Iraq and has no furniture.  We're both clear that it's a loan; he saves me the expense of a storage facility and gets a nice bed for a while.  Win-win!

I'm sure that selling my home before I know where I'm going is completely bass-ackwards.  I tried doing it the conventional way and it just didn't work.  I know it's fear that's kept me here in this neighborhood, not so much of the unknown as of losing my grip and doing a metaphorical face-plant in my new surroundings.  I'm hoping that if I _force_ one foot in front of the other it'll get me going in the right direction.  Any direction, really.

I sure will miss that sofa though.


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## Flea (Sep 16, 2009)

thardey said:


> If you consider Eugene as "one small hippie town in Oregon" Then definitely don't look anywhere other than Portland, and the surrounding suburbs. Hillsboro, Gresham, etc all have their own sub-culture and issues, but are close enough to Portland itself to be interesting.



Thank you.  I had a realtor steer me toward Gresham, and I found some condos that look decent.  Could you tell me about some of the other neighborhoods?  Are they suburbs of Portland, exurbs, outlying satellite towns, or something else?  And can you tell me anything about the culture of any of them?




> Also, the politics get a lot more conservative as you head south of Salem. Even though the largest percentage of Oregon is liberal, most of that is concentrated in the northwest part of the state.


I'm on the fringes of the Bible Belt right now, so despite being a lily-livered liberal I don't mind conservative politics at all.  I like being a little bit of a minority, it keeps me on my toes.

I really appreciate all the good advice so far.  It's exciting to do the research, although the current condo renovations and furniture shuffling are nerve wracking.  It's a lot of exercise and fear-confronting, so I've decided to coin the tern Mu Ving Do.  :uhyeah:  Hell, I've even gotten a few bruises so far, so that's a little extra authenticity.  Behold my stacks of cardboard boxes, ye evildoers, and beware!!

:jediduel:


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