# bulking/cutting



## Hannya (Feb 3, 2006)

Was wondering if anyone could help me out with the transition into the cutting phase. I put on a good 40lbs (on purpose)the past 4 months and althought I wanted to get to 200 I got a physical test coming up and need to start up on the cardio. Thing is I never even touched the treadmill till last night so I don't know whats too much. 

Main thing I don't want is to overdue it and eat away my muscles, I would actually still like to put on muscle mass in the process if possible. Here's what I was thinking of changing up my routine too, lemme know what you think.

Mon- Arms/Chest/Abs
Tues - Abs/ 2 hours cardio (30 running, 30 swimming, 30 bag work)
Wed - Legs/Back/Abs
Thurs - Abs/ 2 hours Cardio again
Fri -  Arms/Chest/Abs 
Sat - Cardio
Sun- Legs/Back/Abs

Too much cardio? Thing is I only got 47 days till the test so I'm trying to cram in as much as I can, but I don't wanna overdue it. Any advice? Also any diet changes I should make, other than lowering my fat/carb intake?  Appreciate any help I can get.

Gonna schedule and appt with a PT today see what happens. Trial and error learning takes time, time I dont have


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## MJS (Feb 3, 2006)

What is the PT test for?  How long has it been since you've done any cardio?

Mike


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## Hannya (Feb 4, 2006)

Havent done any steady cardio in months, when I hit the gym I just do weight routine then go home. Last night I ran 2 miles in 25 mins and swam 10 laps in the pool and was struggling to do that.

The test is for the firefighter exam and since they only hold it once every 3 years failure isn't really an option for me. I'd rather be overprepared then have to struggle thru it. I'm assuming theres going to be about a 4 mile run, then some weighted running, along with other various excercises. Only thing I'm really worried about is the running. Ive trained all this time specifically to get this job, dont wanna have it be done for nothing.


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## Ceicei (Feb 4, 2006)

So how much time do you have from now until your physical test?  If your worry is just to run faster, then being able to run well will depend upon how much preparation time you have left.  A couple of months of training runs is better than just one week only.

*edit* had to re-read what you wrote, sorry.  You said 47 more days.  Ok, you do have time to get into your running (I am a former track runner).  You do need to practice interval runs and that will help build up your cardio (hard run short distance, walk, then begin again with hard run, etc.).  Space these (alternating days) with long runs.  Build up distance on the long run days until you finally can reach the 4 mile mark comfortably.  Once you can, then you increase the speed with your long runs.

- Ceicei


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## MJS (Feb 4, 2006)

Hannya said:
			
		

> Havent done any steady cardio in months, when I hit the gym I just do weight routine then go home. Last night I ran 2 miles in 25 mins and swam 10 laps in the pool and was struggling to do that.
> 
> The test is for the firefighter exam and since they only hold it once every 3 years failure isn't really an option for me. I'd rather be overprepared then have to struggle thru it. I'm assuming theres going to be about a 4 mile run, then some weighted running, along with other various excercises. Only thing I'm really worried about is the running. Ive trained all this time specifically to get this job, dont wanna have it be done for nothing.


 
I would think, that like a test for a LEO, that there are certain requirements set depending on age/sex. Is this correct? If so, what are they?

Unfortunately, and please do not take this as an attack on you, but your first mistake was not keeping up with the cardio on a regular basis. These tests are not something that you can prepare for in a short amount of time. Can it be done? Possibly, but it would be much easier if regular training was already being done. This way, all that would be needed would be to kick up the pace a little. I've seen many people on LEO exams get dropped from the process because they could not do the required amount of push ups or sit ups.

Considering you have not done cardio in a long time, I would not start off going full bore. You're going to need to build yourself up for this. To start off, I'd suggest getting used to the distance and not worry about the time yet. You can't expect your body to acheive a miracle. 

I realize that you only have 47 days, so you really have your work cut out for you. Again, start off slow and gradually build yourself up. I also would be carefull about how much extra weight you're hoping to put on. Keep in mind that that is all the more weight you're going to have to move during that run.

I hope that this was a help. Feel free to ask any more questions if you have them, and I'll do my best to give suggestions.

Mike


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## Shirt Ripper (Feb 4, 2006)

Hannya said:
			
		

> Too much cardio?



Personal variance.  Only you know you...you know?

I like CC's recomendation.  If you've got the facilities for it...train carrying that weight.  Sandbags are easy to make and cheap and a great training tool for everyone esp. firefighters and the like.

Be careful of your recovery from day to day and week to week...injury would be very untimely.  Chicken, fish.


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## luigi_m_ (Feb 5, 2006)

The best way to add cardio to your exercise workouts is interval cardio. If you want to sustain your muscle (like I do), then you should warm up with skipping or running at about 50% of your max effort, then sprint at 90% of your max for 25-30 seconds, or along a set distance, then jog for 5 minutes at 30% of your max (which is all you will be able to do...) for 3-4 minutes. Then do 6-9 more sessions of sprinting with the slow jogging after each sprint. This will build up your stamina and cardio ensurance by working the veins and arteries around the heart, lungs, and in the legs. This is also useful for Martial Arts, especially in sparring sessions,a s you can really tell when you're fighting someone if they have a low cardio resistance.

As sprinting makes your lungs and diaphgrham stronger, this will also help you when lifting heavier weights, as you will be able to expell more air, and inhale more, pushing more air around your system.


Also, I read this the other day. Skipping will help build the strength of your kidneys, as the part of the foot you land on when skipping (near the toes) is directly correspeondent to the kidneys, making them more resilliant to punches...


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## Brother John (Feb 5, 2006)

IF you haven't noticed, INTERVAL CARDIO is the answer!!!
I couldn't agree more!

Something to think about. Take those sand bags that Ripper mentioned are a WONDERFUL idea!  My suggestion... FIND a University or Highschool football stadium, the type where you can access both the running track and the bleachers. Here's what you do: One lap around the track at a moderate pace, not slow...but by no means fast... after the first lap jog straight to the bleachers. Have the sandbags at the bottom of the bleacher stairs, pick them up, put them on and do two trips up / two trips down the bleacher stairs with them on. Go quickly, but NOT "Fast", this could result in a fall & injury and that'd stop your chances real fast. Then after your two trips up & down the stairs, but the sand bags down again and head back for another moderate jog around the track, repeat...etc. I'd do this type of cardio three times a week and no more because of the amount of glycogen depleation you'll experience and lactic acid you Should be producing! You'll see. Also: on those three days I'd make this the *only* form of cardio you do, so you can give _THIS_ one form all you've got. 

          As for the sand-bags themselves. Don't start out heavy, I don't know about your body-somatotype or your strength/athleticism, but do not start with heavy bags. Maybe two fifteen pound bags for the first two weeks. Then increase according to how those 30 lbs made you feel and how well your body adapted to this challenge. Also: In the construction of the bags, I suggest you don't use ONE but two, so that you can take a strong (pref. THICK) piece of rope and tie them together like some freaking big nunchucku (funny mental picture, trying to use them like chucks)...leaving enough length of rope between them so that when you sling the rope up over the back of your neck and over your shoulders each bag ends up at the level of your short ribs so that while running up the stairs with them you can support them to your sides with your forearms. This is what I call the "Poor-boy's weight vest". But it really does work! I did exactly this workout in college and it was like MAGIC for me!!! A real challenge, but it didn't take long for me to show great progress. 

On the days you don't do this sand-bag bleacher running, do your other forms of cardio AND what I'm about to tell you about NEXT......

Look into PHA weight training!!!!! This is also very good for what you are really needing to accomplish! It's wonderful for building superior muscular endurance, trim off Fat and do more than just help you keep muscle. It may be just what you were looking for. *HERE* is a good article for you to read on it. To learn more just go to google (www.google.com) and do a search for "PHA weight training" and you'll see lots of good stuff. 

Here's a consideration for you as well. If you are going to be doing these things, the Interval Cardio and the PHA you MUST MUST MUST be Religious in your recouperation efforts!!!!! You REALLY need to have ONE day a week in which you don't do any form of exercise except several sessions of stretching!!!!! Seriously. IF you do three days of the bleacher-bags and three days of PHA weight training.....YOU WILL NEED a day off!!! Get more sleep than usual! It's when we sleep that our bodies rebuild the most and w/out it even mild exercise will cause More problems then the amount of good you'd get. Do Not do anything to jerk your diet around a great deal, just be healthy, moderate portions (don't skimp and never SKIP). STRETCH before and after you do Any form of exercise! Take a Multi-vitamin. Find some L-Glutamine (a specific Amino Acid) powder and take as direction on the package. 

Good luck.
Keep us posted!!!!!!!!!!!

Your Brother
John


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## Aaron Fields (Feb 5, 2006)

I am a firefighter, and one of the things I do for cardio and for the job is run stairs.  Running laps and distance is one thing, but we don't do that in our job, we run stairs.  On a typical highrise fire I go from my walking weight of 208 lb to over 300 lb with gear, hose, and tools I am carrying. 

My advice to you is to focus on running stairs and if you can add a little weight 30-75 lbs you will be happy with your gain.

Good luck on the test, it is the greatest job in the world.

Aaron Fields
Seattle Jujutsu Club, Hatake Dojo
Sea-Town Sombo
www.seattle-jujutsu.org


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## Shirt Ripper (Feb 5, 2006)

Brother John, I liked that post.  Nice use of emphasis.:ultracool 

Either of you two firefighter types ever looked into those books on "firefighter training" or "Navy Seal Training" and related type of "training"?

I am in the field (sort of) and have never really taken them seriously enough to pick them up and read through...they legitimate?  Just curious.


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## Hannya (Feb 8, 2006)

Welp, I ALREADY inured myself, I think it happened the day I posted this message. Wanted to get a real good workout before I started to change it up and even though I thought it was an awesome workout I overdid it. I dunno what happened but the elbow joint area gets sharp pains which affects all my upper body excercises pretty much, and I lost alot of flexability in my arms. 

Of course trying to work thru the pain all week didnt help. It was one of those I don't have time to be injured, therefore im not injured kind of things. Decided to take it easy now since last night I had a half *** workout because I was focusing on the pain (one arm healed already, but one got 10x worse). I'm just disappointed right now.

Anyone know how to speed up the recovery? Should I force it to stretch or just let it relax for a few days? Ice/heat?

Appreciate all the help in the thread guys, the interval running is killing me but I'm hanging in there. I feel a little wierd using the stair machine, I swear I never seen another guy using it. Havent had time to construct my sandbag nunchuchu (lol) yet just using a backpack for now. I had actually neglected situps so I stepped that up a notch, how many situps/pushups were you required to do for the test? 

Oh well, not gonna let one bad arm get me down, still got 2 good legs and a left arm


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## Shirt Ripper (Feb 8, 2006)

Hannya said:
			
		

> Welp, I ALREADY inured myself, I think it happened the day I posted this message. Wanted to get a real good workout before I started to change it up and even though I thought it was an awesome workout I overdid it. I dunno what happened but the elbow joint area gets sharp pains which affects all my upper body excercises pretty much, and I lost alot of flexability in my arms.
> 
> Of course trying to work thru the pain all week didnt help. It was one of those I don't have time to be injured, therefore im not injured kind of things. Decided to take it easy now since last night I had a half *** workout because I was focusing on the pain (one arm healed already, but one got 10x worse). I'm just disappointed right now.
> 
> ...


 
Ice it.  Don't mess with it too much until you know what the truck is going on with it.  What exactly did you do to injure it?  Depending on severity I would rec. a doctor.  Backpack would work fine, man, considering the elbow.
I'm now a fan of stair machines, most don't utilize a great deal of ROM.

If you are trying to take some "beat up" of your knees and hips from the running try an elliptical...or swimming...good crosstraining never hurt no one...within reason.


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## Jagermeister (Feb 9, 2006)

Hannya said:
			
		

> I put on a good 40lbs (on purpose)the past 4 months and althought I wanted to get to 200 I got a physical test coming up and need to start up on the cardio.



So you were 150 lbs. or so when you started 4 months ago, and you put on 40 pounds in that time?  Were you in a concentration camp?  That's a ton of weight to gain in that amount of time.  You might want to check your blood pressure.  Big gains like that in short periods are hard on the body.  And I'm just curious, what kind of diet were you on during this bulker?


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## Shirt Ripper (Feb 9, 2006)

Jagermeister said:
			
		

> So you were 150 lbs. or so when you started 4 months ago, and you put on 40 pounds in that time? Were you in a concentration camp? That's a ton of weight to gain in that amount of time. You might want to check your blood pressure. Big gains like that in short periods are hard on the body. And I'm just curious, what kind of diet were you on during this bulker?


 
Point well taken Jager, but I don't think a concentration camp would do much for gaining weight (let alone any significant muscle) from the images I've seen.
Good thought though...what was (is) you body composition like after this weight gain?


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## Hannya (Feb 10, 2006)

I wish I could get a fat% test but I don't have the pincher thing (where does one buy that anyways?). I'll admit I was skinny starting out, I actually have/had problems putting on mass so I neglected cardio all together figuring I'll put on as much as I can now and trim it later. Thing is even after 40lbs gain I'm still not done with the bulking phase. Like I said I would have liked to get up to 200 but a job test has me starting sooner.

My diet consisted of 8-10 meals a day, depending on rest/workoutdays. I'd drink a little less than a gallon of milk a day, 4-6 egg whites, almost always having fish/chicken/steak/pork, followed by lots of vegatables/fruits/salads. I'd admit most of the time the food didnt taste good, but gotta do what you gotta do; eating became a job. Before this I prolly ate fast food 4 days out of the week, now I avoid it at all costs. 

As of right now I would say the weight I put on proportioned itself nicely. If I had gotten a gut I would have started the cutting phase sooner, but that never really happened. I still have definition in my abs, but the bottom 2 are covering up a bit. Strength doubled/tripled, arms got huge (I'm told arms are the fastest to build up), friend of mine came back on leave and hadnt seen me in about 6 months and was shocked himself. I'd like to think I put on 30lbs muscle, 10 fat but I don't have the starting fat% reference so I'll never know.

Didn't think it was possible myself, I've tried numerous times in the past and made wimpy gains because even though I was eating alot of food it was the wrong kind of food. Now I realize the importance of protein/carbs/calories, and that fast food is the devil . DIET is everything for those trying to put on weight/and those trying to lose.

EDIT- Elbow feeling alot better now, guess either giving it time to rest or the ice did the trick. Thanks again for the tip


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## MJS (Feb 10, 2006)

How goes the training for the test? I'd still be interested in hearing exactly what is required for the test. How many days do you have left?  I realize that getting big is a goal of yours, but IMO, I'd concentrate a bit more on the preparation, IE: the requirements for passing the test, and worry about the extra bulk later.  As I said, the bigger you are, the more you're going to have to move on test day.  There is always time to bulk up later.  Considering you have been lax on the cardio, I'd make that, as well as the requirements, my priority.  

Mike


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## Shirt Ripper (Feb 10, 2006)

Hannya said:
			
		

> I wish I could get a fat% test but I don't have the pincher thing (where does one buy that anyways?). I'll admit I was skinny starting out, I actually have/had problems putting on mass so I neglected cardio all together figuring I'll put on as much as I can now and trim it later. Thing is even after 40lbs gain I'm still not done with the bulking phase. Like I said I would have liked to get up to 200 but a job test has me starting sooner.
> 
> My diet consisted of 8-10 meals a day, depending on rest/workoutdays. I'd drink a little less than a gallon of milk a day, 4-6 egg whites, almost always having fish/chicken/steak/pork, followed by lots of vegatables/fruits/salads. I'd admit most of the time the food didnt taste good, but gotta do what you gotta do; eating became a job. Before this I prolly ate fast food 4 days out of the week, now I avoid it at all costs.
> 
> ...


Search the net quick you should come up with some options for a caliper.  If you train at a club they should have some option related to that however...if nothing else the basic 3 (perhpas 7) point caliper test.


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## Hannya (Feb 15, 2006)

Wanted to meet my personal trainer before I posted again to check body fat %, and well its 13.5% (192lbs atm), 24 BMI. Not bad at all considering all the weight I put on recently. Very happy with the results so far. The guy said for a 6-pack you need around 8% and to do that I would only have to lose about 7 lbs so I'm not to worried about losing any atm. 

As for the cardio training, I wish the weather was better so my cardio is restricted to the gym; but it's going well. Now that I know I'm leaner than expected I'm gonna cut back and do cardio about twice a week for 2 hours or so. They don't post the job requirements, at least I cant find any info on it; so I'm trying to overprepare myself that way I got everything covered. It's probably not 4 miles non stop, but I know alot of running/weighted running is required. Can anyone give a quick rundown of what was expected for their Leo/firefighter tests? Appreciate any help I can get at this point.

P.S. Does your heartrate lower as you get into better cardio shape? I noticed it being lower even though i was giving it about the same effort. Oh and my knees been killing me after awhile of running, have to switch to the eliptical machines, does the knee eventually get used to it? Thanks for the help guys


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## MJS (Feb 15, 2006)

Hannya said:
			
		

> As for the cardio training, I wish the weather was better so my cardio is restricted to the gym; but it's going well. Now that I know I'm leaner than expected I'm gonna cut back and do cardio about twice a week for 2 hours or so. They don't post the job requirements, at least I cant find any info on it; so I'm trying to overprepare myself that way I got everything covered. It's probably not 4 miles non stop, but I know alot of running/weighted running is required. Can anyone give a quick rundown of what was expected for their Leo/firefighter tests? Appreciate any help I can get at this point.


 
I'm surprised they don't give you an idea as to whats on the agility test.  Its usually broken down by age/sex.  This may help you.

http://www.ct.gov/post/cwp/view.asp?a=2058&q=291922

http://www.ct.gov/post/cwp/view.asp?a=2058&q=291920

Mike


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## Hannya (Feb 15, 2006)

MJS said:
			
		

> I'm surprised they don't give you an idea as to whats on the agility test. Its usually broken down by age/sex. This may help you.
> 
> http://www.ct.gov/post/cwp/view.asp?a=2058&q=291922
> 
> ...



Ummm.... yea I can do all of that except the run atm. I think I do a mile in 8-10 mins. Was thinking it was alot harder for some reason, but thats good news. I figured they didnt post the requirements because its a highly competetive job and people would train just to pass the req. I think 10,000 people applied this year alone for the PD here, they had their test a couple weeks ago. If that same turn out comes for the FD its gonna be tough, as I already know they only need 800 guys.


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## MJS (Feb 15, 2006)

Hannya said:
			
		

> Ummm.... yea I can do all of that except the run atm. I think I do a mile in 8-10 mins. Was thinking it was alot harder for some reason, but thats good news. I figured they didnt post the requirements because its a highly competetive job and people would train just to pass the req. I think 10,000 people applied this year alone for the PD here, they had their test a couple weeks ago. If that same turn out comes for the FD its gonna be tough, as I already know they only need 800 guys.


 
Yes, those links should give you an idea as to what to expect.  It could be different for you though, considering you're testing for the FD.  As far as not posting the requirements...I've always seen some sort of layout for the agility.  What amazes me, is that people bust their butt to pass the test, but once they get on, they let themselves go.  You'd think that having jobs such as a Firefighter or LEO, that you'd want to be in the best shape possible.  Oddly enough, every CSP Trooper that I've seen has been in good shape.  The Town/City officers..well, thats a different story.  Not saying that they're all a bunch of couch potatoes, but it certainly wouldn't hurt them to get in better shape.

Mike


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