# Fight scenes in Jason Bourne Trilogy



## kalel21j7 (Nov 18, 2009)

Hi,

I have been seeing alot in the media and on the internet, people saying that the fight scenes in the bourne trilogy films are "realistic". but can we truly say they are realisitic? apart from perhaps the first installment of the films "identity" where he managed to subdue the three in the embassy and at his paris apartment brawl with the assassin.

i would have thought the fight in Quantum of solace at port au prince was perhaps more realistic.

thanks


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## Omar B (Nov 18, 2009)

Movie fights are never realistic.  As for the Bourne movies, Greengrass, the cinematographers and editors need to get smacked around a bit for letting that kind of shaky, badly edited for the sake of "realism" out.


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## Gordon Nore (Nov 18, 2009)

Omar B said:


> Movie fights are never realistic.  As for the Bourne movies, Greengrass, the cinematographers and editors need to get smacked around a bit for letting that kind of shaky, badly edited for the sake of "realism" out.



QFT. I could never tell if the fights were any good because I couldn't see them.


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## Omar B (Nov 18, 2009)

Can't see the fights?  You can't even see a punch.  One tech. is cut from four different angles with all the cameras shaking like an epileptic fit.

At least in older movies (I'll use Bruce Lee), the edits and changes in camera would happen between tech. not during.  Now you can't even tell if the guy's got good form.


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## thardey (Nov 18, 2009)

I watched one of the behind-the-scenes specials for Bourne. It was the first time I could actually see what was happening. They were using legitimate moves, but you'd never know it from the "cheater" editing.

When movie fights are choreographed, they're done to tell a mini story within a larger story. Boy starts fight, boy begins to lose fight, boy rallies and wins fight after all.

Movie maker are more concerned with telling whatever story, and communicating that to the audience than anything else. So you can't do a "realistic" fight scene unless that specifically is a part of the larger story.


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## Blindside (Nov 18, 2009)

Actually, the first movie doesn't use the shaky handi-cam effects, that one is my favorite of the three.

And, no they aren't realistic, but "more realistic" might be a better term.


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## Gordon Nore (Nov 18, 2009)

In contrast to the Bourne flics, I thought Liam Neeson's fights were great in _Taken_ -- http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0936501/ -- in that they're fast and frenzied, but you can see them.


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## kalel21j7 (Nov 18, 2009)

Gordon Nore said:


> In contrast to the Bourne flics, I thought Liam Neeson's fights were great in _Taken_ -- http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0936501/ -- in that they're fast and frenzied, but you can see them.


Agreed. Although Liam's fight scene were less realistic then bourne. So what would be the most realistic fight scene ever. I was thinking perhaps ''from russia with love''?


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## Omar B (Nov 18, 2009)

Blindside said:


> Actually, the first movie doesn't use the shaky handi-cam effects, that one is my favorite of the three.
> 
> And, no they aren't realistic, but "more realistic" might be a better term.



That's because Doug Linman is a great director and he works with the same cinematographer, editor and stunt coordinators on his movies.  When Greengrass came in on the second one the movies took a whole tonal shift, in fact you could almost skip an hour of both the second and third movie and not miss much because he's so bad at telling a story it hardly moves.  It retained the same color palate though.

As much as I dislike _Mr And Mrs Smith_, it's another great example of why Linman's a great director.  It's a good looking, well shot movie that moves along at a great pace and the fights and gun battles actually work.

I was watching an episode of Stargate Atlantis today and there was a fight scene in there that was great.  Made me think of this thread and how sad the Bourne fights are in comparison.


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## Jimi (Nov 18, 2009)

I would say that a good example of a close to realistic movie fight scene was in John Carpenters THEY LIVE. Roddy Piper and Keith David have a knock down drag out alley fight. Although we know it to be coreographed, that fight scene is much less ego filled as far as the skills being profiled in the Bourne movies.

Though I liked the Bourne movies, there were too many Filipino Panstas, Palisut , Pagagi etc...tech's that are less likely to workout so smooth in a live fight for the characters life.

The trick in the Bourne movies is that choppy editing or no, they tried to make a likable actor (Matt Damon) look as though he could pull off such co-ordinated coreography making you believe that the character could have pulled these tech's off in a serious fight for the characters life.

Granted that the fight scene in They Live is between characters who were simple construction workers as opposed to  in the Bourne trilogy the characters were to be highly trained assassins/operatives who have likely trained in knife fighting and other systems more about killing as quickly as possible. 

A real fight even for highly trained soldiers or operatives, Seals you name it, can break down into that Murphys Law bad dice roll that can finish with even the better skilled/trained fighter catching the worst break ending his life.

I do not feel the Bourne movies fight scenes are simply about representing a realistic fight, but to show how badass the character is supposed to be and against all odds win out. 

It's a badass character thing, not a realistic fight thing. You wanna see a realisticfight scene, let the actors fight it out for real and winner changes the script. LOL. 

Such a fight scene would be very ugly and very unappealing to movie goers with some exceptions to those who love those youtube REAL ALLEY FIGHTS etc...  Its all make believe. LOL.


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## searcher (Nov 19, 2009)

I will poorly adlib something I heard a Sayoc Kali instructor say about on screen fights.    They are so far from real it is scary.     They, Sayoc Kali, specialize in knives and they are very good with them.     When they were asked what a "real" knife fight would be like they said, "it would be about 10 seconds resulting in 1 guy dead and the other severely cut up."

The only way to see realistic fighting is to go where people fight.    No rules, no referees, no winners.     It is the only way.


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## Omar B (Nov 19, 2009)

Preach it man!  I know stage and screen fencing/knife fighting is an art that people work really hard on.  But what's created is something so far and away removed from reality they might as well be swinging around a dozen roses.


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## David43515 (Nov 19, 2009)

When someone is trained, real fights are over very quickly and they`re usually not that intersting to watch. Like someone said before the fight is there to tell a part of the story. It has to look fast, complex , and deadly for the bourne movies because that`s how we want to picture the character. If he drops someone too fast we think he`s awsome but the other guy is a loser. So there has to be several minutes of them countering each other one after another so that you look at it and think "Wow, these guys are both really dangerous!"

Think about it. When you see Chuck Norris wade thru guys one after another w/o breaking a sweat you don`t even think he`s in danger. Then later when he fights a boss and gets countered or hurt a few times, you see his opponant as a real contender. (Even though you know the hero always wins)


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## Gaius Julius Caesar (Nov 19, 2009)

The Bourne movies used good arts and techniques but like the Hunted they took to much damge that seemed to be shaken off to easily. (They took to much damge.)

 Taken was pretty realistic as was Collateral.

 History of Violence had some good moments.

Check out Charles Bronson in Hard Times, that is pretty much how my step dad taught me to fight, simple punching, palms, knees and kciks and of coarse headbutting.


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## blindsage (Nov 19, 2009)

The final fight scene in Golden Eye (James Bond) always struck me as one of the best scenes for appearing to be 'realistic'.  There was also this one Wesley Snipes fight scene (I swear!) in a bathroom (maybe in Drop Zone, can't remember) that was pretty nice.


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## Jimi (Nov 20, 2009)

Although the Bourne Movies were enjoyable and others for their interesting fight scenes, coreography and photography, I have my own opinionated palette for realistic fight scenes in flix.

I grew up just outside DC in an ethnically diverse neighborhood, and many of us were invovled in the local Boys Club playing ball (And knowing how to slip into the equipment room helped friends and I get home more than once),  when we saw the Baseball Furries in the movie THE WARRIORS, we thought, that is not much different than our block, just minus the ACE FREELY-KISS make-up. LOL. 

The Gangs in that movie were very comic book like (And I would never oppose the RIFFS-Yeah Right!) and more colorfull than real life gang activities, but the fight scenes had a real street feel to them beyond the exaggerated gang flare. Now that movie makes me homesick, LOL.

All I can say now about The WARRIORS is "Can you count SUCKAS!?"

BTW Honorable mention to the OUTSIDERS rumble fight scene. "Stay gold Pony Boy" LOL.


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## Jaspthecat (Dec 14, 2009)

Some of the moves in Taken and Bourne Ultimatum were ones I have been taught or are taught in Krav Maga.


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## Balrog (Dec 16, 2009)

The two movies that I think show the best, most realistic fight scenes are "A History of Violence" and "Bad Day at Black Rock".


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## Seth T. (Dec 16, 2009)

How about Benny Urquidez and John Cusack in Grosse Point Blank? The first time I saw that (admittedly awesome) movie I was surprised that such a great fight scene was included.


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## blindsage (Dec 16, 2009)

John Cusack's kickboxing and ability to look spontaneous doing fight choreography leave much to be desired.

But Benny looks great!

Love that movie BTW.


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## sgtmac_46 (Dec 17, 2009)

Balrog said:


> The two movies that I think show the best, most realistic fight scenes are "A History of Violence" and "Bad Day at Black Rock".



The Turkish Bath fight in 'Eastern Promises' is an extremely realistic fight scene.


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## sgtmac_46 (Dec 17, 2009)

Realistic fights among people who know how to fight are usually very quickly 
one sided affairs......the problem with movie fight scenes is that they are generally drawn out affairs for dramatic effect.......while in real life they would have been resolved much more quickly.

Here's a good realistic fight scene.....two fight scenes actually, the second and main one begins at 2:32...based on my experiences it's about as realistic as a movie fight gets, and it's how real people fight.






Ah, what the heck.......it's a movie with a few good realistic bits of violence in it, so this one as well.......though not really a fight, it illustrates the often one sided nature of violence.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MI6L8z9860&feature=related



The moral of the story is don't mess with Boba Fett.


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## zDom (Dec 17, 2009)

I thought the fight scenes in "Redbelt" were fairly well done and realistic.


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## Balrog (Jan 11, 2010)

Gaius Julius Caesar said:


> History of Violence had some good moments.


As did Bad Day at Black Rock.  Just about the first Hollywood movie to feature "real" martial arts.


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## First Action (Jan 17, 2010)

Realistic? Maybe not. Entertaining? I think so - and that seems to be the goal in hollywood.


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## K831 (Jan 18, 2010)

sgtmac_46 said:


> Here's a good realistic fight scene.....two fight scenes actually, the second and main one begins at 2:32...based on my experiences it's about as realistic as a movie fight gets, and it's how real people fight.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Illustrates just how far aggression and intent can take you. That and knowing a head butt is coming ahead of time!





 - Fight starts at about 2:50


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## Joab (Jan 18, 2010)

kalel21j7 said:


> Agreed. Although Liam's fight scene were less realistic then bourne. So what would be the most realistic fight scene ever. I was thinking perhaps ''from russia with love''?


 
I think the fight in "First Blood" where Rambo takes out three sheriff's who are about to shave him looked quite realistic. It came about when the Navy SEAL who was the technical advisor for the film was told it wasn't believable that one man could take down three in a situation like that. So, he showed them it could be done the hard way, and hence they set up the choreography for the fight based on that. At least that is what Stallone said when he was commenting on the film on a DVD I watched.


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