# Fitting FMA into MMA



## Ronin74

Hey guys. I keep going over in my mind how our techniques would translate into the competitve world of MMA. I can see very clearly that the footwork and angling will help tremedously, and there's a number of empty-hand techniques that will aid in submissions, but beyond that, what else will cross over?


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## Thems Fighting Words

Ronin74 said:


> Hey guys. I keep going over in my mind how our techniques would translate into the competitve world of MMA. I can see very clearly that the footwork and angling will help tremedously, and there's a number of empty-hand techniques that will aid in submissions, but beyond that, what else will cross over?



The weapons! :ultracool Oops, sorry, I had a brain fart moment. Um, FMA's striking, range control and counter grappling. Maybe some take downs, though not in the league of Wrestling or Judo. I doubt the ground game would be anything remotely equatable to say BJJ, so work would be needed there too.


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## Tez3

This is very obvious of course but don't forget it's called _mixed _martial arts, so take the best techniques out of any and every style you can to make the optimum mix, the techniques don't have to come from one style and just topped up by another. Look at every style and see what works for you. You wrap up all the things that work for you and it becomes your MMA style, you don't have to stay with the MT/BJJ mix if you have good alternatives, just make sure you have all the bases covered.


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## chris arena

I have a Modern Arnis student (Brandon) who has had his first two MMA fights up here in Tacoma, WA.  As a beginner, he has to fight at least 8 fights and is limited in some techniques. After 8 fights, he then moves up to the full deal. However, He weights almost 160 lbs. Both of his fights had him paired up with 180 lb.s, both with over 8 fights. As at each time, there was nobody esle to fight. He lost both fights to a rear naked choke. 

He says that for the first few fights, what ever skills you may have litterally to out the window!. The effects of the cage, the noise and distractions, along with the obvious huge adrenalin dump. After the first fight he was shocked at how big an effect this had on him. So, it takes a few fights just to get used to the energy the cage delivers on your mind.

Second fight. His oppenent was heavier, ripped muscles and more experienced. He tried to punch Brandon out, but could not touch him. Brandon broke his nose and got him into a clinch. But the beginner's rules outlawed elbows and he was taken down and had to tap out. Chalk it up to lack of experience.

MMA rules still favor the grappler. It is not street fighting. Brandon feels that on the street, the outcome would have probably been more in his favor. However, he feels that FMA has done wonders for his timing and boxing skills. When he is on his feet he is pretty hard to hit and he definately punished both of his opponents. Brandon is brushing up on his ground game, but he also feels that he will need a few more fights just to get used to the obvious rush that this sport gives the player.

However, he loves the sport and is planning to go as far as possible.

Chris A


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## MJS

I think that Marc Denny says it pretty good. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFPO...DC0567B09&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=2


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## Ronin74

Thems Fighting Words said:


> The weapons! :ultracool Oops, sorry, I had a brain fart moment. Um, FMA's striking, range control and counter grappling. Maybe some take downs, though not in the league of Wrestling or Judo. I doubt the ground game would be anything remotely equatable to say BJJ, so work would be needed there too.


Bring on the weapons... lol, j/k.

I'd have to agree with you for the most part. There's a few FMAs where there's actually more focus on the empty-handed aspects, but they're largely out-numbered by the typical-weapon based styles.

With regards to grappling, I had the chance to take part in a seminar held by Gat Puno Abundio Baet, where we received a very short intro to Harimaw Buno. For an art that's not too well-known, I think it would make a great component to anyone's MMA game. It seamlessly combines both the wrestling and submission aspects into one form. On a sidenote, I believe the art also includes grappling with weapons. Again, this is one of those FMAs that could be an exception.


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## Ronin74

Tez3 said:


> This is very obvious of course but don't forget it's called _mixed _martial arts, so take the best techniques out of any and every style you can to make the optimum mix, the techniques don't have to come from one style and just topped up by another. Look at every style and see what works for you. You wrap up all the things that work for you and it becomes your MMA style, you don't have to stay with the MT/BJJ mix if you have good alternatives, just make sure you have all the bases covered.


I think that goes without saying. This is more in regards to how a lot of FMA styles are very combat-oriented, sometimes enough so that applying A LOT of their techniques don't translate well into the sport.


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## Tez3

chris arena said:


> I have a Modern Arnis student (Brandon) who has had his first two MMA fights up here in Tacoma, WA. As a beginner, he has to fight at least 8 fights and is limited in some techniques. After 8 fights, he then moves up to the full deal. However, He weights almost 160 lbs. Both of his fights had him paired up with 180 lb.s, both with over 8 fights. As at each time, there was nobody esle to fight. He lost both fights to a rear naked choke.
> 
> He says that for the first few fights, what ever skills you may have litterally to out the window!. The effects of the cage, the noise and distractions, along with the obvious huge adrenalin dump. After the first fight he was shocked at how big an effect this had on him. So, it takes a few fights just to get used to the energy the cage delivers on your mind.
> 
> Second fight. His oppenent was heavier, ripped muscles and more experienced. He tried to punch Brandon out, but could not touch him. Brandon broke his nose and got him into a clinch. But the beginner's rules outlawed elbows and he was taken down and had to tap out. Chalk it up to lack of experience.
> 
> MMA rules still favor the grappler. It is not street fighting. Brandon feels that on the street, the outcome would have probably been more in his favor. However, he feels that FMA has done wonders for his timing and boxing skills. When he is on his feet he is pretty hard to hit and he definately punished both of his opponents. Brandon is brushing up on his ground game, but he also feels that he will need a few more fights just to get used to the obvious rush that this sport gives the player.
> 
> However, he loves the sport and is planning to go as far as possible.
> 
> Chris A


 

I'm glad your student is enjoying hinself, good luck to him in future fights too! 
One thing we've been saying here about the American guys in the TUF is that they have stronger wrestling skills than the Brits because of the high school and college wrestling background that many americans have. We have no tradtion of that at all, all our martial arts are taught outside school and as a separate sport.
It's only in the past couple of years that we've been teaching MMA as a whole subject, before that everyone came from a separate martial art usually karate or TKD, sometimes Judo though and had to learn the groundwork or standup as as add on. 
I don't feel the rules favour grapplers at all, there's nothing in the rules that I've seen that make me think that. I think  its that theres more techniques on groundwork to stop your opponent. Standing up , you can KO them. The idea of course is too use all of it in a good game plan to stop your opponent, thats why it's been likened to physical chess. Difficult for beginners I agree.
One thing though I wouldn't put a fighter in with someone just because there was no one else to fight, thats a grave mistake. A fighter should only be put in with the fighter thats right for him and if he has to wait for the right opponent, he waits. it's simply not worth the risk of ruining a fighter. Patience is also a virtue in the fight game.


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## Thems Fighting Words

chris arena said:


> I have a Modern Arnis student (Brandon) who has had his first two MMA fights up here in Tacoma, WA.  As a beginner, he has to fight at least 8 fights and is limited in some techniques. After 8 fights, he then moves up to the full deal. However, He weights almost 160 lbs. Both of his fights had him paired up with 180 lb.s, both with over 8 fights. As at each time, there was nobody esle to fight. He lost both fights to a rear naked choke. .


Do you have any guys who know how to efficiently cut weight? Maybe I'm reading it wrong but it sounds as if he's "barely" making it to 160lbs (he weighs almost 160lbs) and his opponents are 180lbs. So maybe he could cut weight to the next category down.





chris arena said:


> Second fight. His oppenent was heavier, ripped muscles and more experienced. He tried to punch Brandon out, but could not touch him. Brandon broke his nose and got him into a clinch. But the beginner's rules outlawed elbows and he was taken down and had to tap out. Chalk it up to lack of experience.


No elbows to the head from what I've read is common for amateur MMA. When / if he goes pro, I'm sure he'll be allowed it.


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## Tez3

Thems Fighting Words said:


> *Do you have any guys who know how to efficiently cut weight? Maybe I'm reading it wrong but it sounds as if he's "barely" making it to 160lbs (he weighs almost 160lbs) and his opponents are 180lbs. So maybe he could cut weight to the next category down.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No elbows to the head from what I've read is common for amateur MMA. When / if he goes pro, I'm sure he'll be allowed it.


 

Agree with this, it's always better to be at the top of your weight category rather than the bottom. If he needs help weight cutting I have several sources that can help.

In amateur quite often there are no strikes to the head, the next progression from amateur is semi pro rather than pro straight away.


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## chris arena

FMA appears to work will for standup MMP very well only if you spend much of your time doing empty hand work. My philosphy of modern day stick work is that the odds of us getting into a stick or machete fight is rather nill. The odds are far greater that you will be unarmed and the victom of a stick attack. However, we have found that stick play does wonders for your speed, timing and natural reaction to what ever is coming at you. We start our class with a stick technique, then drop the stick and work to follow the energy empty hand. The goal is to strike to lock and lock to strike. Also, we have included a lot of early Seattle pre JKD modified wing chun (Jesse Glover) into the mix that was taught to us as well by my teacher.
As far as weight, I agree with you, it wasn't fair for Brandon, but he's a fighter and there is no way he will walk away. (crazy kid). Ground skills are a must and he's working on that.

Chris A


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## Nolerama

chris arena said:


> FMA appears to work will for standup MMP very well only if you spend much of your time doing empty hand work. My philosphy of modern day stick work is that the odds of us getting into a stick or machete fight is rather nill. The odds are far greater that you will be unarmed and the victom of a stick attack. However, we have found that stick play does wonders for your speed, timing and natural reaction to what ever is coming at you. We start our class with a stick technique, then drop the stick and work to follow the energy empty hand. The goal is to strike to lock and lock to strike. Also, we have included a lot of early Seattle pre JKD modified wing chun (Jesse Glover) into the mix that was taught to us as well by my teacher.
> As far as weight, I agree with you, it wasn't fair for Brandon, but he's a fighter and there is no way he will walk away. (crazy kid). *Ground skills are a must and he's working on that.*
> 
> Chris A




Yeah, I would have suggested becoming comfortable in striking/clinch/ground prior to going into a MMA fight. Lots of people want to go into the cage with the concept of their art deciding their victory, but it's not. It's your application of technique from a multitude of arts.

And it's sad when they realize, consciously or subconsciously, that their skills in their base art are never enough, and they freeze up or go to the same few moves that works for them in practice with a dead drill. They swim their punches, slop their kicks, and have no idea how to react in a sprawl...

Then when they lose, they say the fight would have been different on the street. I'm sure. But MMA is the game... Learn to play it, right?

I'm glad your friend is getting some ground tech in. Keep it up!


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## punisher73

The Dog Brothers have adapted their FMA to the MMA game.  The have produced 2 dvd series called Kali Tudo that show that.

I have seen a clip from the first dvd, and it looked very good, but I have not seen the whole thing.

Also, Ron Balicki has a dvd series out on Filipino Boxing that shows how to do some limb destructions and gunting that might be able to be added on into an MMA gameplan.  All of the techiniques shown are also shown being used in a free spar situation.


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## geezer

punisher73 said:


> The Dog Brothers have adapted their FMA to the MMA game.  The have produced 2 dvd series called Kali Tudo that show that.



This brings us back to _Them's_ response to the OP at the beginning of this thread. As to what will cross over from FMA into MMA??? He said "The weapons". He was joking, but somehow, it's bound to happen. I teach at a high school, and when some of the 16-18 year-old boys I work with found out about  the Dog Bros. on Youtube, it was like "Hey, this is freakin' AWESOME!!!". To their credit, the Dog Brothers' "Gatherings" seem to be totally non-commercial. But with the response I see from the younger generation... a paying audience is there waiting. Sooner or later the right promoter will come along, and... for better or worse... professional MMA _with weapons_ is gonna happen. Welcome to the new Rome!


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## punisher73

geezer said:


> This brings us back to _Them's_ response to the OP at the beginning of this thread. As to what will cross over from FMA into MMA??? He said "The weapons". He was joking, but somehow, it's bound to happen. I teach at a high school, and when some of the 16-18 year-old boys I work with found out about the Dog Bros. on Youtube, it was like "Hey, this is freakin' AWESOME!!!". To their credit, the Dog Brothers' "Gatherings" seem to be totally non-commercial. But with the response I see from the younger generation... a paying audience is there waiting. Sooner or later the right promoter will come along, and... for better or worse... professional MMA _with weapons_ is gonna happen. Welcome to the new Rome!


 
I should have been  more specific.  They use their empty hand aspect of kali and have trained it into drills and strategies to use in MMA.


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## Thems Fighting Words

geezer said:


> This brings us back to _Them's_ response to the OP at the beginning of this thread. As to what will cross over from FMA into MMA??? He said "The weapons". He was joking, but somehow, it's bound to happen. I teach at a high school, and when some of the 16-18 year-old boys I work with found out about  the Dog Bros. on Youtube, it was like "Hey, this is freakin' AWESOME!!!". To their credit, the Dog Brothers' "Gatherings" seem to be totally non-commercial. But with the response I see from the younger generation... a paying audience is there waiting. Sooner or later the right promoter will come along, and... for better or worse... professional MMA _with weapons_ is gonna happen. Welcome to the new Rome!



FMA competitions from which Dog Brothers evolved from, already use weapons. But there are limitations to ensure participants safety. Such as proper protective gear and no live blades (only shock weapons). Of course from what I've seen, Filipino's (and I'm one myself) do have a tendency to be pretty easy going and friendly people and so I doubt they'd create a contest system where the goal was to hurt your opponent (ie Roman Gladiators). Though I guess it could happen if the wrong organisation got their hands on the idea. 

On a side note. Dan Inosanto is a BJJ black belt and generally cross-trains like mad. So there's no "shame" in training other styles to compliment FMA.


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## K831

Tez3 said:


> I don't feel the rules favour grapplers at all, there's nothing in the rules that I've seen that make me think that.



Many wrestlers would fail to take me down nearly every time were it not for the rules. Downward elbows to the back of the head, neck and spine to begin with would severely limit their chances of continuing to press the shot. In addition, every time I stuff a shot the rules say I can't make them pay for the attempt with a kick or knee to the head, I have to let them get up. 

I don't disagree with the rules, as I value "athletes" safety and have no desire to kill or paralyze a grappler who shoots on me in the ring (although I am glad my training in TMA prepares me to do so outside of competition) but these "safer" rules definitely favor the "gentle arts" like Bjj and most submission wrestling.

On to the OP question, my time in FMA and Kenpo as done a lot for my ability to generate power in strikes from abscure angles, and has helped me control distance and specifically angles of attack.


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## Nolerama

K831 said:


> Many wrestlers would fail to take me down nearly every time were it not for the rules. Downward elbows to the back of the head, neck and spine to begin with would severely limit their chances of continuing to press the shot. In addition, every time I stuff a shot the rules say I can't make them pay for the attempt with a kick or knee to the head, I have to let them get up.
> 
> I don't disagree with the rules, as I value "athletes" safety and have no desire to kill or paralyze a grappler who shoots on me in the ring (although I am glad my training in TMA prepares me to do so outside of competition) but these "safer" rules definitely favor the "gentle arts" like Bjj and most submission wrestling.
> 
> On to the OP question, my time in FMA and Kenpo as done a lot for my ability to generate power in strikes from abscure angles, and has helped me control distance and specifically angles of attack.



This is still going on?? 

*sigh*... I don't think you "get it" when it comes to your perception of striker vs. grappler vs whatever.

What you're saying is basically an excuse, and this thread shows that a lot of people out there advocate learning different ranges of fighting because it would only help them.

Why deny that? Why do that to yourself?

If you're going to fight with a rule set, be the best you can be at that rule set. In a MMA fight, that means learn to fight on the ground.


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## Tez3

K831 said:


> Many wrestlers would fail to take me down nearly every time were it not for the rules. Downward elbows to the back of the head, neck and spine to begin with would severely limit their chances of continuing to press the shot. In addition, every time I stuff a shot the rules say I can't make them pay for the attempt with a kick or knee to the head, I have to let them get up.
> 
> I don't disagree with the rules, as I value "athletes" safety and have no desire to kill or paralyze a grappler who shoots on me in the ring (although I am glad my training in TMA prepares me to do so outside of competition) but these "safer" rules definitely favor the "gentle arts" like Bjj and most submission wrestling.
> 
> On to the OP question, my time in FMA and Kenpo as done a lot for my ability to generate power in strikes from abscure angles, and has helped me control distance and specifically angles of attack.


 
You haven't watched much MMA really have you? 
Have you seen the KOs? Watched the stand up part much?
In MMA you fight tactically, when your coach decides you're fighting and who you are fighting you then study your opponent, his strengths, his weaknesses and you make a gameplan. It's not like you get in there and just respond to whatever he does. I'm betting that someone _will_ take you down within the rules! I'm also betting that you can be taken down outside the rules too.
The rules are there because it's a competition, they have rules to enable fair play and an entertaining fight. 
As I said the rules don't favour any particular type of fighter, they just ensure the safety of the fighters. 


Nolerama, nice post! I agree with you totally.


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## Ronin74

This is kind of what I wanted to avoid.

I'd like to know where and how my FMA training fits into MMA, not how it would compare in an all-out fight. MMA is as level a playing field as we can get for people of different MA backgrounds to test their skills. It almost goes without saying that no matter what a person's base art may be, they still need exposure to striking, grappling, and athletic conditioning if they actually want to survive an MMA match. My original question was in trying to figure out how to fit what I've learned into the MMA game. So far, I've found the angling and footwork, entries and reversals to carry over well. However, that's no excuse for me to not brush-up/improve/learn the skills needed in the game.

As for the rules, if I wanted to throw them out the window, I may as well bring a stick or a blade into the ring... lol. Seriously, for whatever limitations those rules bring to whatever arts, I think they're there for the benefit of keeping the athletes safe. We've seen what happens to boxers when they're pushed to the limit and the ref lets it go.


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## Tez3

Sadly if you do MMA it's something you get alot. "Oh MMA is no good for a real fight", or "you wouldn't get me down if it wasn't for the rules" etc etc, it gets tiresome tbh.
I think there must be very few styles that won't fit into MMA, possibly there's none at all as every martial art has something that can be used even weapons, although they aren't used the timing and speed of your moves must be of some use surely! 
If you are fighting in an MMA competition you will be able to work your gameplan according to who you are fighting, this will give you the cahnce to brush up any extra skills you think you may need according to what their strengths and weaknesses are. In the meantime work on _everything_ lol!


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## Nolerama

Ronin74 said:


> This is kind of what I wanted to avoid.
> 
> I'd like to know where and how my FMA training fits into MMA, not how it would compare in an all-out fight. MMA is as level a playing field as we can get for people of different MA backgrounds to test their skills. It almost goes without saying that no matter what a person's base art may be, they still need exposure to striking, grappling, and athletic conditioning if they actually want to survive an MMA match. My original question was in trying to figure out how to fit what I've learned into the MMA game. *So far, I've found the angling and footwork, entries and reversals to carry over well.* However, that's no excuse for me to not brush-up/improve/learn the skills needed in the game.
> 
> As for the rules, if I wanted to throw them out the window, I may as well bring a stick or a blade into the ring... lol. Seriously, for whatever limitations those rules bring to whatever arts, I think they're there for the benefit of keeping the athletes safe. We've seen what happens to boxers when they're pushed to the limit and the ref lets it go.



I think your pain tolerance/exposure is pretty high when you bring FMA into a MMA setting. Getting hit by a stick in FMA really puts striking/getting hit into perspective. Personally, I think it gives you a leg up in how you defend yourself.

A lot of the destructions I've seen in FMA drills translate very well into MMA. Instead of a knife thrust into someone's midsection, it's a nice shot into the kidney or liver. Clinch in the FMAs seems more fluid that the sparse Greco I've trained in MMA so I take the FMA route and look for openings, advantages from that.

However, I highly suggest that some of those FMA -> MMA drills be drilled light, tight, and above all else: alive. You'll start seeing the functionality of your FMA game and take that into the ring with you.

In all, I think it's a mindset. FMA, like a lot of other combat TMAs places the practitioner in an elevated state of aggressiveness. It's not a fear state, but an awareness that says "Hey, I'm in peril, so I'm going to do something about it." Lots of MMA fanboys never get that. They hang in the gym for a few sessions, realize that getting hit in the face (even lightly) isn't their cup of tea, and leave because they can't deal with that contact to their bodies and ego...

Now, take that into MMA, and take the survivability concerns out of the equation because it is a sport, and you have all this time to think about how to best subdue, and submit your opponent.

The same can be said the other way around. Take a MMA practitioner and introduce live stickfighting into that person's game, and I'm pretty sure that his SD/MMA game will skyrocket.

Like I said before, a coupling of FMA and MMA is nothing but a good thing in terms of athleticism, and attitude towards combat.


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## Ronin74

Nolerama said:


> I think your pain tolerance/exposure is pretty high when you bring FMA into a MMA setting. Getting hit by a stick in FMA really puts striking/getting hit into perspective. Personally, I think it gives you a leg up in how you defend yourself.


I totally forgot about that. I think it's easy to take that part for granted as it's the first thing we usually embrace in FMA- at some point, we're gonna get hit with sticks.


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## Tez3

At an MMA night I went to a couple of years ago there was a demo of stick fighting, when I say demo it was more a real fight lol! Impressive and everyone appreciated it.
The difference between styles is often only in the head and just needs a little imagination to transcribe moves made in any style to be of use in MMA, thats the fun of it.


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## K831

Nolerama said:


> This is still going on??
> 
> *sigh*... I don't think you "get it" when it comes to your perception of striker vs. grappler vs whatever.
> 
> What you're saying is basically an excuse, and this thread shows that a lot of people out there advocate learning different ranges of fighting because it would only help them.
> 
> Why deny that? Why do that to yourself?
> 
> If you're going to fight with a rule set, be the best you can be at that rule set. In a MMA fight, that means learn to fight on the ground.



I wrestled through junior high and high school. Both Greco and Freestyle. I currently attend a gym where both Gi and no Gi Bjj is taught. 

Your whole argument rests on a "condition" or an "if" that nowhere in my post did I place on myself; 



Nolerama said:


> If you're going to fight with a rule set, be the best you can be at that rule set. In a MMA fight, that means learn to fight on the ground.



Hence the failure of your argument. 

"This" as you state it, is still going on because too many fans of the sport do just what you did; assume that because there are "rule sets" somewhere... surely they apply everywhere. My training is no longer based around competition. I have no "rule set" to learn to work around. You shoot on me, no rules will protect you, and I refuse to train as if they will protect me. 

A little objectivity and you would see that with some minor rule changes, Lay and pray would no longer even exist.


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## K831

Tez3 said:


> You haven't watched much MMA really have you?
> Have you seen the KOs? Watched the stand up part much?
> In MMA you fight tactically, when your coach decides you're fighting and who you are fighting you then study your opponent, his strengths, his weaknesses and you make a gameplan. It's not like you get in there and just respond to whatever he does. I'm betting that someone _will_ take you down within the rules! I'm also betting that you can be taken down outside the rules too.
> The rules are there because it's a competition, they have rules to enable fair play and an entertaining fight.
> As I said the rules don't favour any particular type of fighter, they just ensure the safety of the fighters.
> 
> 
> Nolerama, nice post! I agree with you totally.



I find most every violent altercation I have been in, it really did pay off that I had my coach there. It was great that I had watched so much tape, figured out the assailants strengths and weaknesses so that when attacked I could exploit them. Are you serious??

Honestly, has reading comprehension suffered recently in this forum? Can we dispose of the logical fallacies?

All rules favor something in lieu of something else. I never said I disagreed with the rules, as mentioned I appreciate the "safety' they provide "athletes".

However to say these rules don't favor one set of tactics or mind set or style over another is just silly, since by admission in this thread, you have to train to "work around" said rules.


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## K831

Ronin74 said:


> This is kind of what I wanted to avoid.



Apologize if my response to Tez took your thread in the wrong direction. It just boggles my mind that fans of a sport actually believe all arts fit into that sports little box equally, with no art benefiting more than another. 



Ronin74 said:


> I'd like to know where and how my FMA training fits into MMA, not how it would compare in an all-out fight.



Sure, but understanding fundamentally which of these two (MMA as a "sport" or an actually all out fight) your art is fundamentally designed for will help you answer that question.

For example: Most FMA's are clearly designed for altercations far outside the realm of "sport with rules" like MMA. 

Most Kali/Escrima schools I have trained in put a weapon in the hand of the beginning student. That is a notion that is, in my experience, unique to that art and culture. As a result, most FMA practitioners (especially early on) have a high degree of accuracy, precision and high degree of sensitivity (trapping etc). Those skills are more a requirement early on with blade work than with empty hand work. 

Does this translate as helpful in MMA? Sure. However, how much of your work in FMA is done with open hands? Have you considered the pro's and cons of a striker who trains largely to strike with open hands and uses that in MMA?


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## Stickgrappler

hello all:

*bows deeply*

i recently got both Kali Tudo 1 and 2 in the mail. i've not had a chance to watch it in one uninterrupted sitting. the little i did get to watch is a goldmine imo and may be the next 'element' incorporated into MMA. first there was bjj, then wrestling takedowns, the greco-roman clinch, the sambo leglocks, etc.  now you have the in and out fighting of lyoto machida's shotokan. the dog brother's kali tudo may be the next element in the evolution of MMA.

most people train FMA weapons with the idea of attribute development. most of the FMA claims are that what you train with the weapons you can do empty-hand. kali tudo shows this and some drills to develop this. one key is footwork.

there is a thread on the dog brothers forum that may shed some insight:

http://dogbrothers.com/phpBB2/index.php?topic=597.0

HTH.

~sg


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## Tez3

K831 said:


> Apologize if my response to Tez took your thread in the wrong direction. It just boggles my mind that fans of a sport actually believe all arts fit into that sports little box equally, with no art benefiting more than another.
> 
> 
> 
> Sure, but understanding fundamentally which of these two (MMA as a "sport" or an actually all out fight) your art is fundamentally designed for will help you answer that question.
> 
> For example: Most FMA's are clearly designed for altercations far outside the realm of "sport with rules" like MMA.
> 
> Most Kali/Escrima schools I have trained in put a weapon in the hand of the beginning student. That is a notion that is, in my experience, unique to that art and culture. As a result, most FMA practitioners (especially early on) have a high degree of accuracy, precision and high degree of sensitivity (trapping etc). Those skills are more a requirement early on with blade work than with empty hand work.
> 
> Does this translate as helpful in MMA? Sure. However, how much of your work in FMA is done with open hands? Have you considered the pro's and cons of a striker who trains largely to strike with open hands and uses that in MMA?


 
How kind of you to lecture me and attempt to deflect me from my bad MMA ways. Also for calling me a fan so patronisingly, in fact I'm a pro rules referee, coach and train MMA. I also do TMAs. I understand the rules perhaps better than you do, so feel I can comment on them knowledgably and I will assert they neither favour stand up fighters nor grapplers which was what the original point was.....strikers v grapplers. If you wish to start another thread I will debate each rule with you.


----------



## Nolerama

K831 said:


> I wrestled through junior high and high school. Both Greco and Freestyle. I currently attend a gym where both Gi and no Gi Bjj is taught.
> 
> Your whole argument rests on a "condition" or an "if" that nowhere in my post did I place on myself;
> 
> 
> 
> Hence the failure of your argument.
> 
> "This" as you state it, is still going on because too many fans of the sport do just what you did; assume that because there are "rule sets" somewhere... surely they apply everywhere. My training is no longer based around competition. I have no "rule set" to learn to work around. You shoot on me, no rules will protect you, and I refuse to train as if they will protect me.
> 
> A little objectivity and you would see that with some minor rule changes, Lay and pray would no longer even exist.



You are uber cool.

I bow to you because you're so uber cool.

Don't beat me up with your blah blah blahs.


----------



## Tez3

Oh and we don't need rules changes to stop 'lay and pray' there's the 15 second rule..."work gentlemen or you stand up" ie if they aren't working after 15 seconds they get stood up...simple! Some refs will only tolerate 10 secs of not working.

How much of my work in FMA is........sorry,my dear I don't do FMA, do MMA though and there's something (not everything of course) in just about every MA that can be useful in MMA. It's a case of having a look and see what works for you.
Use of weapons will give you sharp hand eye co-ordination or else a lot of broken bones I imagine. Other have pointed out that pain tolerance, footwork and skill at striking will also be transferable.
MMA is for fun, that's why people compete, only a very small minority will make a living.
The OP asks what would be useful from FMA in MMA and the thread was sidetracked by an old argument ie MMA is no good for real fighting etc etc etc. And then we get accused on not understanding MMA, Lord preserve me from numpties and nuggets.


----------



## JKD143

I found this thread highly interesting. I didn't realize there were people out there who so emphatically held to the notion that training for a sport with a sporting mindset was the same or sufficient as training for a real and violent altercation. I find that surreal. It is also interesting to assert that rules don't favor one thing over another, as that is impossible by their nature... but that is an unimportant argument (unless of course you just want to help others with their logic, or lack thereof) what is more important (and scary) is this thought that one can train for a sport and think they are training for or sufficiently prepared for a "real" SD situation. Hmmm. 

To the OP, should you come back and check this thread; have you seen the URCC? Some great FMA practitioners have shown how well their respective styles do in a NHB type of event. Also, I think this was mentioned, but the dog bros kali tudo adressess your question.


----------



## Tez3

JKD143 said:


> I found this thread highly interesting. I didn't realize there were people out there who so emphatically held to the notion that training for a sport with a sporting mindset was the same or sufficient as training for a real and violent altercation. I find that surreal. It is also interesting to assert that rules don't favor one thing over another, as that is impossible by their nature... but that is an unimportant argument (unless of course you just want to help others with their logic, or lack thereof) what is more important (and scary) is this thought that one can train for a sport and think they are training for or sufficiently prepared for a "real" SD situation. Hmmm.
> 
> To the OP, should you come back and check this thread; have you seen the URCC? Some great FMA practitioners have shown how well their respective styles do in a NHB type of event. Also, I think this was mentioned, but the dog bros kali tudo adressess your question.


 
Ok so who thinks that training for a sport is the same as training for a real life situation? I don't think anyone here does, I think you must have been misreading some posts.
How deep a knowledge do you have of the rules of MMA then that you can assert that they favour some styles over others?


----------



## JKD143

Tez3 said:


> Ok so who thinks that training for a sport is the same as training for a real life situation? I don't think anyone here does, I think you must have been misreading some posts.


 
The nature of many of your posts have asserted that training for the sport of MMA is just fine for self defense/street "fights".




Tez3 said:


> Sadly if you do MMA it's something you get alot. "Oh MMA is no good for a real fight",


 



Tez3 said:


> I think this is a very tired old argument. I train MMAwe, will train moves for fighting in a competition but we can adapt those moves to be used in a self defence situation. Our minds aren't limited you know to only fighting by rules! We are quite able to think when attacked "ooo this is a no rules situation and I can hit him in the ghoolies or bite him..whatever" just as in the ring or cage we are discplined enough to play by the rules.


 
It is obvious any assertion that MMA isnt particularly suited to surviving a street altercation is one you find sad and tired.

The second paragraph I quoted ignores that you do in fact fight like you train. It is easy to say even though I never train this or that, and even though I have ingrained techniques that fit into a certain rule set, I will break from those rules in a real life situation but it just isnt true. You respond like you train. 

Having said that, the argument in this thread seemed to start with your statement:




Tez3 said:


> I don't feel the rules favour grapplers at all, there's nothing in the rules that I've seen that make me think that.


 
This statement is corollary to your thoughts on MMA and SD. If the rules do not favor any style over another, than any of the styles would work just as well for self defense as they do in an MMA competition. Do you believe this to be true? 





Tez3 said:


> How deep a knowledge do you have of the rules of MMA then that you can assert that they favour some styles over others?


 
Deep enough in my estimation. However, so as to be sure I am correct on the rules, would you share them with me?


----------



## chris arena

Guys. Cool yer jets! Lets not get into the old my art is better than your art BS!

Does training in a sport MMA art make you a deadly killer?

Do you really train in your FMA class to be a deadly killer?

********! You do it for fun, exercise, social preferance, escapism from the boredom of real life, etc, etc. Both methods offer skills required for self defense. I am a dedicated FMA player and am also around the MMA guys as well. I highly respect both.

What makes a good fighter? 1. It is physical ability, 2. mental state of mind at the time of combat, 3. technical abililty and 4. luck! 

-That's it folks!-

The fighter that has the best combination of these 4 skills at that one moment in time will most likely win! 

(qoute from Angel Cabales).


----------



## Tez3

JKD143, you have definitely been reading my posts wrong haven't you? You compleyly wrong I'm afraid in what you think my posts mean. I am correct when I say it's an old argument, that many people say MMA is no good for self defence. it comes up a lot and yes I'm also correct when I say it can be easily *adapted* for that purpose. Note the word *adapted* and note too that MMA people aren't stupid morons who are stuck in one mentality of 'dur, I'm being attacked so I'll fight MMA rules here', how very silly of people to think thats all we can do.
You fight as you train? Really, guess I better tell my instructor who's also a close protection officer and doorman, I'd better tell Ian Freeman, UFC veteran and ex-doorman, Geoff Thompson, writer, and ex doorman. Karl Tanswell, MMA trainer and self defence expert and many others, that MMA is no good because they won't be able to fight on the street just because they can also train MMA. My dear man you are talking bollocks. 
MMA is a sport ( I think I may give a prize if anyone can tell me how many times I've posted that statement on MT) just as boxing is a sport. People who do either or both can defend themselves I'm sure so making a statement that you can't just because you train for a sport is nonsense. No one thinks MMA is for self defence, it's a sport ( didn't I say that?) but people who do MMA can defend themselves just as easily as anyone who does any other MA.

I only ref professional MMA so what the hell would I know about rules eh?


----------



## Carol

Ronin74 said:


> Hey guys. I keep going over in my mind how our techniques would translate into the competitve world of MMA. I can see very clearly that the footwork and angling will help tremedously, and there's a number of empty-hand techniques that will aid in submissions, but beyond that, what else will cross over?



Got Dumog?


----------



## K831

JKD143 said:


> I found this thread highly interesting. I didn't realize there were people out there who so emphatically held to the notion that training for a sport with a sporting mindset was the same or sufficient as training for a real and violent altercation. I find that surreal. It is also interesting to assert that rules don't favor one thing over another, as that is impossible by their nature... but that is an unimportant argument (unless of course you just want to help others with their logic, or lack thereof) what is more important (and scary) is this thought that one can train for a sport and think they are training for or sufficiently prepared for a "real" SD situation. Hmmm.
> 
> To the OP, should you come back and check this thread; have you seen the URCC? Some great FMA practitioners have shown how well their respective styles do in a NHB type of event. Also, I think this was mentioned, but the dog bros kali tudo adressess your question.



Good luck! Give a good logical thought and Tez will tag in Nolerama... who will come in and tell you that you are Uber cool, then they will thank all each others posts! Have fun!


----------



## JKD143

Tez3 said:


> JKD143, you have definitely been reading my posts wrong haven't you? You compleyly wrong I'm afraid in what you think my posts mean. I am correct when I say it's an old argument, that many people say MMA is no good for self defence. it comes up a lot and yes I'm also correct when I say it can be easily *adapted* for that purpose. Note the word *adapted* and note too that MMA people aren't stupid morons who are stuck in one mentality of 'dur, I'm being attacked so I'll fight MMA rules here', how very silly of people to think thats all we can do.
> You fight as you train? Really, guess I better tell my instructor who's also a close protection officer and doorman, I'd better tell Ian Freeman, UFC veteran and ex-doorman, Geoff Thompson, writer, and ex doorman. Karl Tanswell, MMA trainer and self defence expert and many others, that MMA is no good because they won't be able to fight on the street just because they can also train MMA. My dear man you are talking bollocks.
> MMA is a sport ( I think I may give a prize if anyone can tell me how many times I've posted that statement on MT) just as boxing is a sport. People who do either or both can defend themselves I'm sure so making a statement that you can't just because you train for a sport is nonsense. No one thinks MMA is for self defence, it's a sport ( didn't I say that?) but people who do MMA can defend themselves just as easily as anyone who does any other MA.



Our ideas of what SD is are obviously different. It is common knowledge that NMM takes over in the fight/flight/hypervigilance phase of an altercation. As to your notion that an MMA competitor can turn on and off their adherence to rules in that state, it just doesn't happen. I have seen it time and time again, in real time. 

In addition, how would an MMA competitor deal with guns, knives, blunt force weapons, multiple attackers, and so on. MMA gyms training competitors don't train these things. These are the self defense situations that are most common. I remember the Krav Maga guy on the Human Weapon shaking his head at Jason Chambers after a drill and saying "you can fight in the cage, but you don't know sh#t about self defense" and so it is with nearly all MMA competitors I have seen/been involved with.

Another member did a great job of explaining this in a thread a while back..I'll have to see if I can find it. 




Tez3 said:


> I only ref professional MMA so what the hell would I know about rules eh?



Thats why I asked. All rules limit something in favor for something else. All rules put something at and advantage over something else. 

Again, can you post the rules? The foules etc?


----------



## Tez3

k831 said:


> good luck! Give a good logical thought and tez will tag in nolerama... Who will come in and tell you that you are uber cool, then they will thank all each others posts! Have fun!


 
wtf?


----------



## Ronin74

:erg: And this is the reason I haven't been back lately.

I've checked out the first URCC event and was definitely not impressed. The highlight for me were the somewhat degrading comments made by the commentators regarding the fighters.

_"From the looks of their torsos' they're clearly heavyweights"_

I honestly could not restrain the laughter.

For the record, my original post was in regards to fitting what I've learned from FMA into the *sport* of MMA. Not what art was better, or some tired "self-defense vs. sports" debate.


----------



## Tez3

JKD143 said:


> Our ideas of what SD is are obviously different. It is common knowledge that NMM takes over in the fight/flight/hypervigilance phase of an altercation. As to your notion that an MMA competitor can turn on and off their adherence to rules in that state, it just doesn't happen. I have seen it time and time again, in real time.
> 
> In addition, how would an MMA competitor deal with guns, knives, blunt force weapons, multiple attackers, and so on. MMA gyms training competitors don't train these things. These are the self defense situations that are most common. I remember the Krav Maga guy on the Human Weapon shaking his head at Jason Chambers after a drill and saying "you can fight in the cage, but you don't know sh#t about self defense" and so it is with nearly all MMA competitors I have seen/been involved with.
> 
> Another member did a great job of explaining this in a thread a while back..I'll have to see if I can find it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thats why I asked. All rules limit something in favor for something else. All rules put something at and advantage over something else.
> 
> Again, can you post the rules? The foules etc?


 
Oh well as you know it all, pointless my saying anything isn't it. Who the hell is Jason Chambers anyway?

All the MMA fighters I know come from a TMA background, a lot of them are military, a couple police officers, a good many of them are doormen and some are travellers. None are professional fighters although they fight pro rules, none train full time MMA, I assume you are talking about the fulltime UFC fighters, I'm not. The money isn't here to allow anyone to be a full time fighter. The couple we have got, Bisping and Hardy (both from a TMA background), train and work in the States not here. Hence it's easy enough for fighters here to switch from MMA to no rules, when they need to and they often do. Many gyms here which teach MMA also train TMA and self defence, even Wolfslair does, it's what pays the bills.
A good many of us train with the British Combat Association and with people like Geoff Thompson, Iain Abernethy and Karl Tanswell. Karl is a well known MMA coach of pro fighters as well as being well known for his self defence teaching, his STAB courses and seminars are probably among the best in the world.  MMA and TMA isn't very far apart here so we can do both MMA and self defence work as well as traditional martial arts.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KAT5-OIxvA&feature=related

You are generalising from what you have seen and know nothing of what I have seen so you are drawing the wrong conclusions altogether.  
In our club we teach MMA, TSD and a lot of self defence work, different classes but the same students attend them, this is the norm over here. MMA is the game we play to amuse ourselves to see if we can take the hit, think on our feet (or back) and generally enjoy what we do hopefuly winning fights on the way, self defence is what we do for real ( my instructor trains with Geoff Thompson among others and is well into SD) switching between the two is easy enough.
I'm guessing the Shamrocks of this world probably don't train self defence, they have a job to do as MMA fighters so perhaps it's true in their case that they can't 'do' self defence though I wouldn't want to bet my life on it but fighters I know here can and do.


----------



## Tez3

Ronin74 said:


> :erg: And this is the reason I haven't been back lately.
> 
> I've checked out the first URCC event and was definitely not impressed. The highlight for me were the somewhat degrading comments made by the commentators regarding the fighters.
> 
> _"From the looks of their torsos' they're clearly heavyweights"_
> 
> I honestly could not restrain the laughter.
> 
> For the record, my original post was in regards to fitting what I've learned from FMA into the *sport* of MMA. Not what art was better, or some tired "self-defense vs. sports" debate.


 
the self defence v sports argument always pops up simply because people can't accept MMA is a sport which we enjoy, it has to have a 'higher purpose' ie SD as we can't have people simply enjoying fighting lol!


----------



## Ronin74

Tez3 said:


> the self defence v sports argument always pops up simply because people can't accept MMA is a sport which we enjoy, it has to have a 'higher purpose' ie SD as we can't have people simply enjoying fighting lol!


Sadly, this is the case.

I love martial arts, and if I had to make a life of it, my focus would definitely lean towards its combative applications. However, it's not to say that I wouldn't enjoy watching MMA. It is by far my favorite sport, and perhaps one of the few I'll take an interest in. I'm one of those guys that will fall asleep if I have to watch football, baseball, basketball, and pretty much most major/mainstream sports. However, if there's a Boxing, Kickboxing, or MMA fight on (especially if they're classic match-ups), I'll grab a seat to watch.

I agree with you Tez in that some folks feel that there has to be that _'higher purpose'_, and while I might agree that it applies to the spiritual aspects of practicing martial arts (and I'll admit that it's a big part of my life in the arts), there's no denying that some of us enjoy watching- or even participating- in a nice legal throw-down... lol.


----------



## JKD143

Tez3 said:


> the self defence v sports argument always pops up simply because people can't accept MMA is a sport which we enjoy, it has to have a 'higher purpose' ie SD as we can't have people simply enjoying fighting lol!



Opposite really. People simply can't accept that their sports is not sufficient for self defense, and that outside of the "cage" they may find it seriously lacking. 

You are not sticking with the basic item we are discussing, the point I made in my original post, to which you responded. I mentioned two points.

1.) Yes the rules will favor one style over the another, as all rules limit somebody or something over something else. You refuse to discuss the rules, playing the martyr and insisting I said I know everything.

2.) I mentioned the weakness and risk of viewing MMA and training for competition as SD. You then mention people who do both, yet that isn't what I was ever speaking about, and its a non issue in this discussion.

Incidentally, I very much enjoy watching MMA.... although my patience with the UFC is running out. I can, however, watch for what it is, without arguing for something it isn't.


----------



## Bondservant

Hello Ronnin74,

My encouragment to you is this: 1. The use of your blocks/perry techniques are important that is why you use them.  The block/perry is to either damage the attackers atack and create an opening to finish him or to use leverage and guide him of balance to a position that you can again finish him.  Both aspects are crucial to open your opponent to your counter attack.
2.  I trust your fma is of good quality so you know that you don't just cut someone to cut them....right?  These are weak/vulnerable point aka vital points that will affect the attacker in some way.  with a knife you may cause peralysis or excessive bleeding or even the loss of use of that particular muscle/limb.  WELL these same points if struck will cause various similar effects on the body.

Lastly you must have the same confidence and poise that you would have if you were using your knife/blade.

Ponder these and good luck to you!


----------



## Carol

Could be a higher purpose. 

Could be some folks really don't like the idea of groundfighting, but I think that's an easier jump for an FMAist to make.   Many FMA styles have flows and locks akin to what is found in jujutsu.   Add dumog or silat and you likely have some experience with the ground and maybe even defending against a shoot and other sorts of attacks found in the octagon.

FMA typically does not train defenses to specific attacks, instead we are trained on defending against the direction of the energy.  If something is coming towards us, we do not want it to hit us.  If its sharp, one hit can kill.

I think an FMAist that can defend themselves against a person with a knife in their hand can have a lot of tools to defend themselves against an attacker with nothing in their hands.


----------



## Tez3

JKD143 said:


> Opposite really. People simply can't accept that their sports is not sufficient for self defense, and that outside of the "cage" they may find it seriously lacking.
> 
> You are not sticking with the basic item we are discussing, the point I made in my original post, to which you responded. I mentioned two points.
> 
> 1.) Yes the rules will favor one style over the another, as all rules limit somebody or something over something else. You refuse to discuss the rules, playing the martyr and insisting I said I know everything.
> 
> 2.) I mentioned the weakness and risk of viewing MMA and training for competition as SD. You then mention people who do both, yet that isn't what I was ever speaking about, and its a non issue in this discussion.
> 
> Incidentally, I very much enjoy watching MMA.... although my patience with the UFC is running out. I can, however, watch for what it is, without arguing for something it isn't.


 
If you chose to attack me, twist what I say and generally speak down to me I'll answer with what I like frankly.
The OP was how can you fit FMA into MMA but you have chosen to have a ramble on about SD and your experiences which is a non isssue.


----------



## Nolerama

JKD143 said:


> Opposite really. People simply can't accept that their sports is not sufficient for self defense, and that outside of the "cage" they may find it seriously lacking.
> 
> You are not sticking with the basic item we are discussing, the point I made in my original post, to which you responded. I mentioned two points.
> 
> 1.) Yes the rules will favor one style over the another, as all rules limit somebody or something over something else. You refuse to discuss the rules, playing the martyr and insisting I said I know everything.
> 
> 2.) I mentioned the weakness and risk of viewing MMA and training for competition as SD. You then mention people who do both, yet that isn't what I was ever speaking about, and its a non issue in this discussion.
> 
> Incidentally, I very much enjoy watching MMA.... although my patience with the UFC is running out. I can, however, watch for what it is, without arguing for something it isn't.



Flecked with emotion, I see? Vehemently against the SD aspects of MMA, you are?

Have you trained MMA? Probably not. And if you did, you probably didn't train for very long. You'll find SD application all over the place. Fight that losing battle, then say you like MMA, but the UFC is trying your patience? Get a grip, and stop, smell the roses instead of keeping your nose in the Sweaty Cup of MMA vs. SD.


----------



## JKD143

Tez3 said:


> If you chose to attack me, twist what I say and generally speak down to me I'll answer with what I like frankly.
> The OP was how can you fit FMA into MMA but you have chosen to have a ramble on about SD and your experiences which is a non isssue.




I chose to have a ramble? Wow. Actually, I posted an observation as to what I thought was interesting about the thread, and then I addressed the OP's question.

To which you responded:



Tez3 said:


> Ok so who thinks that training for a sport is the same as training for a real life situation? I don't think anyone here does, I think you must have been misreading some posts.
> How deep a knowledge do you have of the rules of MMA then that you can assert that they favour some styles over others?



And I simply answered your questions (which is more than I have been able to get you to do) any yet you take no responsibility for your part in the discussion, and say others are twisting your words? Lol. Have fun.


----------



## JKD143

Nolerama said:


> Flecked with emotion, I see? Vehemently against the SD aspects of MMA, you are?



I recap the two points I made, which were completely ignored by Tez (and obviously will continue to be) and you see an emotional response? Then come out with things like "smell the roses" lol. I guess there was no emotion in any thing Tez said (may be difficult to find, amongst all the contradictions) or in anything you have said in this thread?


----------



## Tez3

JKD143 said:


> I recap the two points I made, which were completely ignored by Tez (and obviously will continue to be) and you see an emotional response? Then come out with things like "smell the roses" lol. I guess there was no emotion in any thing Tez said (may be difficult to find, amongst all the contradictions) or in anything you have said in this thread?


 
:lol::lol::lol::lol:

My dear boy, only you find contradictions, that's because you misunderstood the posts in the first place, still never mind. It was amusing.

I love it when a man starts posting that discussions are 'emotional', it means he doesn't like women answering him back ROFL.

Attack away, it's always fun to clash swords on the internet, it's not real you know. :jediduel:


Answer you? I suppose I could but where's the fun in that when you are enjoying yourself making my answers up for yourself? Of course if anyone wants the rules for our MMA they could always go on the P&G website but then you haven't been here long enough to know that or for that matter any of us before you started telling how things are.Troll much?


----------



## chris arena

Here is my observation.  

A person puts a technical discussion up on the site, even shows a brief video of what he is doing and you get 3, maybe 4 intelligent replies. Some are kudo's and some are corrections. Even better yet, they send back a detail of thier view on the subject and, maybe even a video showing thier efforts to better themselves and/or see if  they are on the right track!
These people are technitions and tradesmen. The do and show thier art. They get better with age

Then, there are those who pontificate all of thier expert views and go on and on defending thier stances on this subject. But... Where is thier evidence, where are thier video's. In short, let's see what they can do... 
Sadly, you never see anything. Just words, and that is because they are NOT technitians or tradesmen. They are philosophers. However, it is these posts that go on and on and on...... 

Which do you want to be?... Hint. "It's easier to be a philosopher".


----------



## Tez3

chris arena said:


> Here is my observation.
> 
> A person puts a technical discussion up on the site, even shows a brief video of what he is doing and you get 3, maybe 4 intelligent replies. Some are kudo's and some are corrections. Even better yet, they send back a detail of thier view on the subject and, maybe even a video showing thier efforts to better themselves and/or see if they are on the right track!
> These people are technitions and tradesmen. The do and show thier art. They get better with age
> 
> Then, there are those who pontificate all of thier expert views and go on and on defending thier stances on this subject. But... Where is thier evidence, where are thier video's. In short, let's see what they can do...
> Sadly, you never see anything. Just words, and that is because they are NOT technitians or tradesmen. They are philosophers. However, it is these posts that go on and on and on......
> 
> Which do you want to be?... Hint. "It's easier to be a philosopher".


 
Oh well if it's any help to you my video of me reffing is posted on MT lol!


----------



## JKD143

Tez3 said:


> :lol::lol::lol::lol:
> 
> My dear boy, only you find contradictions, that's because you misunderstood the posts in the first place, still never mind. It was amusing.
> 
> I love it when a man starts posting that discussions are 'emotional', it means he doesn't like women answering him back ROFL.
> 
> Attack away, it's always fun to clash swords on the internet, it's not real you know. :jediduel:
> 
> 
> Answer you? I suppose I could but where's the fun in that when you are enjoying yourself making my answers up for yourself? Of course if anyone wants the rules for our MMA they could always go on the P&G website but then you haven't been here long enough to know that or for that matter any of us before you started telling how things are.Troll much?



Oh, your posts are full of contradictions. Emotion was mentioned by your friend... I just thought it was funny...but you don't read the posts well enough to see who posted what, do you? That's fine. You address my post, start the questioning, cant handle the answers, point the finger, pretend its "someone else" who comes trolling, refuse to engage n the conversation you say you want to have, condensed... oh, never mind.


----------



## K831

JKD143 said:


> Oh, your posts are full of contradictions. Emotion was mentioned by your friend... I just thought it was funny...but you don't read the posts well enough to see who posted what, do you? That's fine. You address my post, start the questioning, cant handle the answers, point the finger, pretend its "someone else" who comes trolling, refuse to engage n the conversation you say you want to have, condensed... oh, never mind.



Ha! Did I not call it 100%?? It happened just like I said it would...word for word lol

All you will get is ad hominem, antecedent denial, non sequiturs and so on.


----------



## JKD143

K831 said:


> Ha! Did I not call it 100%?? It happened just like I said it would...word for word lol
> 
> All you will get is ad hominem, antecedent denial, non sequiturs and so on.



Yes you did...right down to the thanking. Ha! You've been here longer than I have.


----------



## Tez3

So who do you thinks actually cares?
Not I, thats for sure ROFL!

Chaps, you really need to understand that your amusement value is quite high and your understanding is quite low but there you go. It must get quite cold up there on your ivory towers, hope you wrap up warm.

The people I respect understand my posts, you don't so... 'am I bovvered', nah! 
Have a nice day and better luck on posting on other threads where people aren't as easily amused as I!


----------



## Ronin74

Bondservant said:


> Hello Ronnin74,
> 
> My encouragment to you is this: 1. The use of your blocks/perry techniques are important that is why you use them. The block/perry is to either damage the attackers atack and create an opening to finish him or to use leverage and guide him of balance to a position that you can again finish him. Both aspects are crucial to open your opponent to your counter attack.
> 2. I trust your fma is of good quality so you know that you don't just cut someone to cut them....right? These are weak/vulnerable point aka vital points that will affect the attacker in some way. with a knife you may cause peralysis or excessive bleeding or even the loss of use of that particular muscle/limb. WELL these same points if struck will cause various similar effects on the body.
> 
> Lastly you must have the same confidence and poise that you would have if you were using your knife/blade.
> 
> Ponder these and good luck to you!


Ahhhh... gotcha.


----------



## ap Oweyn

I think the bottom line is this:  The MMA guys I've known are an open minded lot.  They do not, however, take much on faith.  Show them that something has utility, and they'll consider it carefully.  Tell them that they should do X, Y, and Z because centuries ago it was battlefield tested, style X is specifically designed to contend with range Y, or whatever other overly analytical rationale we tend to get in online discussions, and you're likely to be met with a fair amount of cynicism.

Basically, it's going to come down to someone being willing to step up and _try_ using some of these things in the ring.  If someone responded to a bull rush with a reverse triangle footwork that neatly put them behind the other guy and in terrific position for a finishing move, then the MMA community would likely start saying "huh, you know there may be something there."  If someone started using the oblique kick (or _sipa_) to snuff their opponent's kicking or forward blitzes, there might well be interest.  

But the flaw with most "why don't UFC fighters use ____ " is that they firmly place the onus upon the MMA community to recognize the absolute brilliance of whatever your style of choice is and then gratefully seek out instruction in it.  To me, that reasoning is backward.  If recognition by the MMA community is important (and it's up to each of us to decide whether it is), then someone needs to _show them_ what we have to offer.  In a venue that's compelling and repeatable.


Stuart


----------



## Nolerama

JKD143 said:


> I recap the two points I made, which were completely ignored by Tez (and obviously will continue to be) and you see an emotional response? Then come out with things like "smell the roses" lol. I guess there was no emotion in any thing Tez said (may be difficult to find, amongst all the contradictions) or in anything you have said in this thread?



There's a difference between having a lot of emotion behind fact (Tez has a lot of insight into MMA, TMA, and how it all comes together in both SD and competition), and just BSing behind your keyboard because your ego got bruised in an online forum.

You remind me of this wrestler kid I've been rolling with. In sparring, he keeps asking me "could you show me submissions/setups?" and when I do, he keeps saying "I can power out of that with blah blah blah."

Well, he's never going to learn the sub if he keeps that mindset. So I just leave him alone, and hopefully, he's get that we're training, getting reps in, and not focusing on overpowering an opponent at the moment (which will prove wonderful w/ good technique).

I see you like that JKD143. My tongue-in-cheek reaction to pretty much whatever you say in this thread is due to the fact that I've given up trying to get my point across in terms of fitting FMA into MMA (which I can repeat that it's a good thing to do for a variety of reasons), and I've digressed into pointing out an subtle, yet essential point when it comes to posting in an online forum: don't take everything so seriously. We're generally a lighthearted bunch, and try to bring something to the table instead of posting ridiculous "I did this in high school so I know everything" dribble.

Lighten up. Because you're bringing nothing to the table... yet. At least, nothing we haven't heard before.

For whatever it's worth, I apologize for offending you.


----------



## Tez3

Over here we see little FMA, we don't have the cultural ties with the Philippines that America does so it's quite a rare style here though I'm sure there's people who practice it. Until, though, we have someone who has done FMA competing in MMA here we won't have a chance to see or learn any techniques. From what I've seen and read though I'd be very surprised if there wasn't something we can take from FMA and use in MMA. 
 I think I'll have to have a look for somewhere that trains FMA and investigate, see if they have someone who's willing to take a bout with us, amateur rules would be fine. We have a big charity show later this year for Help For Heroes, that would be a good time as we are looking for martial arts displays, even if they didn't want a bout a display would be very cool!


----------



## Ronin74

Tez3 said:


> Over here we see little FMA, we don't have the cultural ties with the Philippines that America does so it's quite a rare style here though I'm sure there's people who practice it. Until, though, we have someone who has done FMA competing in MMA here we won't have a chance to see or learn any techniques. From what I've seen and read though I'd be very surprised if there wasn't something we can take from FMA and use in MMA.
> I think I'll have to have a look for somewhere that trains FMA and investigate, see if they have someone who's willing to take a bout with us, amateur rules would be fine. We have a big charity show later this year for Help For Heroes, that would be a good time as we are looking for martial arts displays, even if they didn't want a bout a display would be very cool!


Going off on a tangent, I'd even like to see another country-vs-country-themed card. UFC 58 was USA vs Canada, which gave a lot of Canadian fighters some good exposure, and the recent TUF season showcased some pretty good UK guys I probably wouldn't have heard of (incidently I had my money on Pearson from day 1).

Of course on the downside, the average native Filipino fighter- assuming he's in healthy shape- would be lucky to even make lightweight. I'm a US born Filipino, and when I start working out, my weight drops A LOT.


----------



## JKD143

Nolerama said:


> There's a difference between having a lot of emotion behind fact (Tez has a lot of insight into MMA, TMA, and how it all comes together in both SD and competition), and just BSing behind your keyboard because your ego got bruised in an online forum.
> 
> You remind me of this wrestler kid I've been rolling with. In sparring, he keeps asking me "could you show me submissions/setups?" and when I do, he keeps saying "I can power out of that with blah blah blah."
> 
> Well, he's never going to learn the sub if he keeps that mindset. So I just leave him alone, and hopefully, he's get that we're training, getting reps in, and not focusing on overpowering an opponent at the moment (which will prove wonderful w/ good technique).
> 
> I see you like that JKD143. My tongue-in-cheek reaction to pretty much whatever you say in this thread is due to the fact that I've given up trying to get my point across in terms of fitting FMA into MMA (which I can repeat that it's a good thing to do for a variety of reasons), and I've digressed into pointing out an subtle, yet essential point when it comes to posting in an online forum: don't take everything so seriously. We're generally a lighthearted bunch, and try to bring something to the table instead of posting ridiculous "I did this in high school so I know everything" dribble.
> 
> Lighten up. Because you're bringing nothing to the table... yet. At least, nothing we haven't heard before.
> 
> For whatever it's worth, I apologize for offending you.



   What are you talking about? When did I mention high school? You two really do just play tag team without reading anything do you? Where in this thread did I mention high school? Show me where I took anything more serious than anybody else? No bruised ego, merely baffled at how someone can ask a question of another poster, then pretend they never brought it up and try to belittle, condensed and insult  them right out the gate - curious behavior that fortunately only you two have shown since I signed up here (its obviously common though, since other members can literally "call it" before it even happens.) 

Listen, I'm glad you two are internet warriors with tons of posts. It's great (although ludicrous) that you think all that Tez says is fact. If you're each others fanboys, more power to you. Her "insights into MMA and SD" garnered from all her time in the gym and coaching other peoples competitions means little to me. Its hypothetical and arbitrary. Probably never been used outside of a game in any sense.  Unfortunately, I've had to do it for real and lost people dear to me in the process. You guys can keep your playground "we know all cuz we roll in the gym" condescending attitudes derived from all the time in a sport. Good luck to you both, keep pushing that post count, that&#8217;s where the real SD skills come from.


----------



## MJS

ap Oweyn said:


> I think the bottom line is this: The MMA guys I've known are an open minded lot. They do not, however, take much on faith. Show them that something has utility, and they'll consider it carefully. Tell them that they should do X, Y, and Z because centuries ago it was battlefield tested, style X is specifically designed to contend with range Y, or whatever other overly analytical rationale we tend to get in online discussions, and you're likely to be met with a fair amount of cynicism.


 
On the flip side, I can point to a number of threads, where MMA folks claim that X works....because (insert any fighter here) does it.  For myself, I don't give a crap if 10 others can pull off a move.  I will not use that as a basis as to whether or not it'll work for me.  They are assuming move X will work, because those 10 or 20 people made it work, but is it working for them?  Thats whats going to matter.



> Basically, it's going to come down to someone being willing to step up and _try_ using some of these things in the ring. If someone responded to a bull rush with a reverse triangle footwork that neatly put them behind the other guy and in terrific position for a finishing move, then the MMA community would likely start saying "huh, you know there may be something there." If someone started using the oblique kick (or _sipa_) to snuff their opponent's kicking or forward blitzes, there might well be interest.


 
At the risk of sounding like certain moves, are "th3 d3adl3y", as thats the term thats usually used, I'll point to this example.  If we look at the Kajukenbo Fight Quest episode, we saw Jimmy get dropped by an elbow to the back.  Yet that same move, which is touted by countless TMAists, as an effective move against a shoot, will be bashed to hell by certain MMA folks as a fantasy move.  Yet again, we saw it on national tv.  Yet if we look at the rules, striking with the point of the elbow is a no-no.  So, while FQ wasn't an MMA show, per se, we saw a tech. that is talked about alot, work with good results.



> But the flaw with most "why don't UFC fighters use ____ " is that they firmly place the onus upon the MMA community to recognize the absolute brilliance of whatever your style of choice is and then gratefully seek out instruction in it. To me, that reasoning is backward. If recognition by the MMA community is important (and it's up to each of us to decide whether it is), then someone needs to _show them_ what we have to offer. In a venue that's compelling and repeatable.
> 
> 
> Stuart


 
Personally, I don't care what they think about any of the arts I train in.  There is no ultimate art, and for everything wrong they can find about what I do, I can match them.   For the record, before anyone gets riled up, I have nothing against MMA fighters.  I think that there are good ones, and ones that act like jerks, just like in every art.  I think that MMAists and TMAists can both benefit from each other.  

I also think that alot of it comes down to how you train.  Youtube seems to be the proving ground for many, so they tend to base what they see and assume that every (insert art here) trains the same way.  Its not too often that you see a video of a Kenpo guy doing ground work, yet I train it.   The only person I'm interested in impressing, is me.


----------



## Tez3

Ronin74 said:


> Going off on a tangent, I'd even like to see another country-vs-country-themed card. UFC 58 was USA vs Canada, which gave a lot of Canadian fighters some good exposure, and the recent TUF season showcased some pretty good UK guys I probably wouldn't have heard of (incidently I had my money on Pearson from day 1).
> 
> Of course on the downside, the average native Filipino fighter- assuming he's in healthy shape- would be lucky to even make lightweight. I'm a US born Filipino, and when I start working out, my weight drops A LOT.


 
We have a lot of lighter fighters here, we don't seem to have the larger guys that America has doing MMA. We have a very good mid range and only a couple of heavyweights. 
MJS, only the striking downward point of elbow when standing isn't allowed in MMA, you can use it any other way including when on the ground.


JKD143, you assume an awful lot, do I use it outside the gym/dojo? As a matter of fact I do... rofl, guess you haven't read enough of my 'enormous' amount of posts have you? Keep up the insults, you're now amusing everyone.


----------



## LoneRider

> Of course on the downside, the average native Filipino fighter- assuming he's in healthy shape- would be lucky to even make lightweight. I'm a US born Filipino, and when I start working out, my weight drops A LOT.


 
Had to comment on that line. I'm a US born Filipino who works out nearly constantly (US serviceman) and I personally tip the scales at 160 lbs, within welterweight tolerances I think. 

I'm certain that given proper training, good diet, and good funding a Filipino making MMA weight would be possible. I'd love to see an MMA version of Pacquio making a great MMA debut. 

And in a previous thread a few FMA practicioners say that the FMAs were among the first hybrid arts as every technique in Eskrima and many other FMAs has both armed and unarmed applications for use in battle. I'd see practicing FMA with MMA as a way to improve ones practical self defense skills and ring fighting skills and believe a fighter training in both benefits both.


----------



## ap Oweyn

MJS said:


> On the flip side, I can point to a number of threads, where MMA folks claim that X works....because (insert any fighter here) does it. For myself, I don't give a crap if 10 others can pull off a move. I will not use that as a basis as to whether or not it'll work for me. They are assuming move X will work, because those 10 or 20 people made it work, but is it working for them? Thats whats going to matter.


Well sure.  But there's two explanations for that.  1) The fan base and practitioner base for MMA are growing exponentially, meaning that the percentage of boneheads is going up exponentially as well.  So you're bound to have a certain (growing) percentage of voices spouting things that more experienced people (TMA or MMA) know to be rubbish.

2) They're using the same rationale that lots of other martial artists use all the time.  Their example is just more immediate.  Saying that Brandon Vera pulls off the high kick consistently, therefore it works in those parameters, is really no different from saying that style X was used on the battlefield hundreds of years ago and is therefore appropriate for current self-defense.  It's still an appeal to vicarious experience.



> At the risk of sounding like certain moves, are "th3 d3adl3y", as thats the term thats usually used, I'll point to this example. If we look at the Kajukenbo Fight Quest episode, we saw Jimmy get dropped by an elbow to the back. Yet that same move, which is touted by countless TMAists, as an effective move against a shoot, will be bashed to hell by certain MMA folks as a fantasy move. Yet again, we saw it on national tv. Yet if we look at the rules, striking with the point of the elbow is a no-no. So, while FQ wasn't an MMA show, per se, we saw a tech. that is talked about alot, work with good results.


 
Again, there's a disparity between experienced MMA types who are making a technical point (and a good one in my view) and the slew of fanboys who then take that point and expand its logic beyond usefulness.  For instance, the more experienced guys I've spoken to point out that the elbow drop to the back isn't a good defense against an experienced shootist because wrestling and similar arts teach you to bend at the knee when going for the single- or double-leg.  Not at the waist.  So the back isn't presenting itself if done properly.  

I don't think anyone (credible) is suggesting that dropping the point of your elbow on some dude's spine won't get a reaction.  Just that it's a tactic that doesn't address how those takedowns are _supposed_ to be performed.  So while it may work on someone, it's a low-percentage move on someone good.

Two other things to bear in mind:  1) They could be wrong, and would likely happily admit it faced with enough evidence.  2) I think a lot of the objections aren't to the idea that it _could_ work, but to the idea that it's a watertight and infallible solution to that problem.  I've heard a lot of "anti-grapplers" say "I'd just do X" as if it weren't even an issue, because they have this clever move in their pocket.



> Personally, I don't care what they think about any of the arts I train in. There is no ultimate art, and for everything wrong they can find about what I do, I can match them.


 
I suppose I could too.  But, for me, it's got more to do with answering my own questions.  And matching someone in a debate doesn't do much to quiet those questions.



> For the record, before anyone gets riled up, I have nothing against MMA fighters. I think that there are good ones, and ones that act like jerks, just like in every art. I think that MMAists and TMAists can both benefit from each other.


 
Agreed wholeheartedly.  To be clear, I'm much more of a TMAist myself.  I don't practice MMA.  I've trained in some kickboxing, the odd BJJ class, the infrequent muay thai class.  Never competed in anything other than a couple of point tournaments in my childhood and WEKAF stickfighting tournaments.  So I'm not trying to further "my camp" here.  I just think that MMA offers a useful "lab experience" for people looking to get a little more feedback.



> I also think that alot of it comes down to how you train. Youtube seems to be the proving ground for many, so they tend to base what they see and assume that every (insert art here) trains the same way. Its not too often that you see a video of a Kenpo guy doing ground work, yet I train it.  The only person I'm interested in impressing, is me.


 
Well, here's the thing:  Out of any group with a specialized interest, much of the commentary is likely to come from people who have more enthusiasm than insight.  And given the explosion in MMA lately, the explosion in martial arts in general, and the availability of soapboxes through the internet, it's no great surprise that much of the debate that goes on amounts to roughly sod all.




Stuart


----------



## MJS

Tez3 said:


> MJS, only the striking downward point of elbow when standing isn't allowed in MMA, you can use it any other way including when on the ground.


 
Oh, I know.   I was simply replying to this:



> Basically, it's going to come down to someone being willing to step up and _try_ using some of these things in the ring. If someone responded to a bull rush with a reverse triangle footwork that neatly put them behind the other guy and in terrific position for a finishing move, then the MMA community would likely start saying "huh, you know there may be something there." If someone started using the oblique kick (or _sipa_) to snuff their opponent's kicking or forward blitzes, there might well be interest.


 
which I took as MMA fighters would be more likely to adapt something if it worked in the ring.  While FQ wasn't in the ring or a MMA show, per se, we still saw the downward elbow, which is often bashed when TMAists suggest its use, work with great effectiveness, against a double leg attempt.


----------



## Tez3

MJS said:


> Oh, I know.  I was simply replying to this:
> 
> 
> 
> which I took as MMA fighters would be more likely to adapt something if it worked in the ring. While FQ wasn't in the ring or a MMA show, per se, we still saw the downward elbow, which is often bashed when TMAists suggest its use, work with great effectiveness, against a double leg attempt.


 
I hate accidently hitting or kicking someones elbow lol!
The reason the downward elbow isn't allowed is because it's so damn effective, anyone seen Ong Bak? (hope it was called the same in the States), the elbows and knees in there, ouch!.


----------



## MJS

ap Oweyn said:


> Well sure. But there's two explanations for that. 1) The fan base and practitioner base for MMA are growing exponentially, meaning that the percentage of boneheads is going up exponentially as well. So you're bound to have a certain (growing) percentage of voices spouting things that more experienced people (TMA or MMA) know to be rubbish.
> 
> 2) They're using the same rationale that lots of other martial artists use all the time. Their example is just more immediate. Saying that Brandon Vera pulls off the high kick consistently, therefore it works in those parameters, is really no different from saying that style X was used on the battlefield hundreds of years ago and is therefore appropriate for current self-defense. It's still an appeal to vicarious experience.


 
1) I agree.  And I don't want to sound like I'm picking on MMA, because those same boneheads can be found in pretty much every art.

2) True, but like I said, those folks (the boneheads) assume that because it works for 10 people, that its a given it'll work for them.  Additionally, I tend to cringe when I see people with the, "Well, if my Master says it worked and he used it, and his teacher had success, and his teachers teacher...it must work!"  line.  Like I said, I don't care if it works for them, due to the fact that its not going to be them thats defending me, it'll be me.  My Kenpo inst, my Arnis inst...they can both pull off moves that leave me in wide eyed, yet, those same moves may not be on my fav. list.  I try not to run around saying that Kenpo is the best standup art.  Its the best for me though.  When I talk about the importance of learning ground defense, may people assume I'm talking about BJJ.  Not the case, as I always give credit to the other grappling arts out there. 





> Again, there's a disparity between experienced MMA types who are making a technical point (and a good one in my view) and the slew of fanboys who then take that point and expand its logic beyond usefulness. For instance, the more experienced guys I've spoken to point out that the elbow drop to the back isn't a good defense against an experienced shootist because wrestling and similar arts teach you to bend at the knee when going for the single- or double-leg. Not at the waist. So the back isn't presenting itself if done properly.


 
Watch from 2:20 on.  So basically what you're saying is, is that if he was lower, bending more with the knees, that wouldn't have happened?  Personally, I don't think that Jim thought that the Kajukenbo guy would've had the defense that he did.  As for experience, I think a 5-1 record is a pretty good start. 



> I don't think anyone (credible) is suggesting that dropping the point of your elbow on some dude's spine won't get a reaction. Just that it's a tactic that doesn't address how those takedowns are _supposed_ to be performed. So while it may work on someone, it's a low-percentage move on someone good.


 
Correct, because most of the people saying it isn't effective are most likely the fanboy, keyboard warriors, who probably spend more time talking smack behind the keyboard, than they do on the mat in a real school.



> Two other things to bear in mind: 1) They could be wrong, and would likely happily admit it faced with enough evidence. 2) I think a lot of the objections aren't to the idea that it _could_ work, but to the idea that it's a watertight and infallible solution to that problem. I've heard a lot of "anti-grapplers" say "I'd just do X" as if it weren't even an issue, because they have this clever move in their pocket.


 
Correct again.   Likewise, I also cringe when I hear certain moves referred to as watertight and infallible.  While a poke to the eye is effective, if that is the only tool said person has to fall back on, then IMHO, they seriously need to re-eval. their training. 





> I suppose I could too. But, for me, it's got more to do with answering my own questions. And matching someone in a debate doesn't do much to quiet those questions.


 
True, and likewise, I'm more concerned with the same. 





> Agreed wholeheartedly. To be clear, I'm much more of a TMAist myself. I don't practice MMA. I've trained in some kickboxing, the odd BJJ class, the infrequent muay thai class. Never competed in anything other than a couple of point tournaments in my childhood and WEKAF stickfighting tournaments. So I'm not trying to further "my camp" here. I just think that MMA offers a useful "lab experience" for people looking to get a little more feedback.


 
Absolutely, and I preach the same thing brother.   I'm always saying that both can benefit from each other, and I too, am always looking for things that I can borrow from MMA to make my toolbox better. 





> Well, here's the thing: Out of any group with a specialized interest, much of the commentary is likely to come from people who have more enthusiasm than insight. And given the explosion in MMA lately, the explosion in martial arts in general, and the availability of soapboxes through the internet, it's no great surprise that much of the debate that goes on amounts to roughly sod all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stuart


 
I think you and I agree more than we disagree.   I get the same feeling...that many people, the ones who have the biggest mouths, are the falvor of the week chasers.  I mean, I'm sure we had the followers of kickboxing, then in the 80s it was the Ninja craze, and now the MMA craze.  They see it, they like it, and they think that whatever flavor is currently on the shelf is the end all be all of training.  And like I said, I'd be willing to bet that the biggest talkers, are people who watch TUF with their friends, then run to the back yard, start 'rolling', and assume they know what they're doing, when in reality, they should spend their time doing something more productive, like joining a school.


----------



## Tez3

JKD143 said:


> What are you talking about? When did I mention high school? You two really do just play tag team without reading anything do you? Where in this thread did I mention high school? Show me where I took anything more serious than anybody else? No bruised ego, merely baffled at how someone can ask a question of another poster, then pretend they never brought it up and try to belittle, condensed and insult them right out the gate - curious behavior that fortunately only you two have shown since I signed up here (its obviously common though, since other members can literally "call it" before it even happens.)
> 
> Listen, I'm glad you two are internet warriors with tons of posts. It's great (although ludicrous) that you think all that Tez says is fact. If you're each others fanboys, more power to you. Her "insights into MMA and SD" garnered from all her time in the gym and coaching other peoples competitions means little to me. Its hypothetical and arbitrary. Probably never been used outside of a game in any sense. Unfortunately, I've had to do it for real and lost people dear to me in the process. You guys can keep your playground "we know all cuz we roll in the gym" condescending attitudes derived from all the time in a sport. Good luck to you both, keep pushing that post count, that&#8217;s where the real SD skills come from.


 
I thought shall I post about this or shan't I, then I thought 'oh lets add to my post count' so I am replying, hey why not it's what internet warriors do isn't it? And I might get lots of thanks for it too, whooppee! Maybe even a rep point if I'm lucky!

Yeah I know everything cuz I roll in the gym, yep thats me,though I don't *coach* other peoples competitions whatever that means. Should we ignore my military service starting in 1971, I even got a medal, wow! that was for what you'd call getting shot at, blown up and various other things in the Province, ah what fun times they were.The smell of religious intolerence splling into violence on a night is invigorating. Then lets see, my job, did a bit in the Balkans with that, though a Saturday night in a Garrison town is always good for a fight or two. Done some door work ( on the quiet though my job doesn't like me doing it lol), we have some rough areas here. Knife crime is rife in many areas. My job keeps me pretty on the ball SD wise as well as lifewise.Well you didn't think I was a typist or shop assistant did you? I've got a posting preference order in for a tour in Afhanistan to teach the local police force alongside my colleagues, well Shelley wanted postcards so I thought that might be fun for her to get some from me there. 
Training MA wise, well it's adequate I guess, trained with some of the best the UK can offer, Geoff Thompson, Iain Abernethy etc etc. I'm MMA trained and trainer, professional referee. Been with Pride & Glory Ultimate Fighting since we started it, gave Bisping his first pro fight (not thats much to be proud of lol), yeah thats the history of a real keyboard warrior, I admit it I know everything rofl!
I'm sorry you lost people but son, you ain't the only one. Ever been stood next to mate when a sniper put a round through his head and you got splattered with his brain? Northern Ireland 1972. Thats just the start of it, guess I may have seen more violence that many but then you think I'm liar, right, what I say isn't the truth, ah poor deluded boy! never mind, it's only the internet, take two aspirins and go and lie down in a dark place.
Why does it worry you so much what others write? why are you getting so upset? what I say is either my opinion or if it's something I personally know it's the truth, you don't think so...then put your money where your mouth is, put it in black and white where you think I'm lying! then contact a very nice American gentleman called _Skip Hall_ who's met me and will tell you exactly what I've told you. 

Little man, you've had a busy day,it's time to wind your neck in now.


----------



## Ronin74

LoneRider said:


> Had to comment on that line. I'm a US born Filipino who works out nearly constantly (US serviceman) and I personally tip the scales at 160 lbs, within welterweight tolerances I think.
> 
> I'm certain that given proper training, good diet, and good funding a Filipino making MMA weight would be possible. I'd love to see an MMA version of Pacquio making a great MMA debut.


Hey, kapatid! I can definitely see that as well, but you're definitely on the money in that it would require proper training and a great diet. I carry A LOT of weight right now, but when my metabolism kicks back in after a few months of training, I usually drop down to about 150, which is in the middle of the lightweight class. Oddly enough, that's still kind of a heavyweight for someone of my height (5'4").



LoneRider said:


> And in a previous thread a few FMA practicioners say that the FMAs were among the first hybrid arts as every technique in Eskrima and many other FMAs has both armed and unarmed applications for use in battle. I'd see practicing FMA with MMA as a way to improve ones practical self defense skills and ring fighting skills and believe a fighter training in both benefits both.


I mentioned something in a similar vein elsewhere (maybe even in this thread... lol) that even though SD and MMA are two seperate entities, they work well in helping to enhance each other. My experience in FMA has given me a truckload of technique to work with, but short of picking a real fight, MMA offers me the real-time speed with some levels of unpredicatability and learning to apply something from my familiar background to an unfamiliar situation.

For instance, in a stand-up (or even SD) scenario, I know how to parry a punch and transition into an armbar- usually for a takedown. However, the idea of parrying a punch shouldn't necessarily have to go out the window because I'm on my back in an MMA scenario. Still trying to figure that out, which brought me to my original post.


----------



## Ronin74

MJS said:


> I think you and I agree more than we disagree.  I get the same feeling...that many people, the ones who have the biggest mouths, are the falvor of the week chasers. I mean, I'm sure we had the followers of kickboxing, then in the 80s it was the Ninja craze, and now the MMA craze. They see it, they like it, and they think that whatever flavor is currently on the shelf is the end all be all of training. And like I said, I'd be willing to bet that the biggest talkers, are people who watch TUF with their friends, then run to the back yard, start 'rolling', and assume they know what they're doing, when in reality, they should spend their time doing something more productive, like joining a school.


Wait! Are we bringing back the Ninja craze? I'm still sporting my mohawk and black van from my A-Team phase!


----------



## Tez3

Ronin74 said:


> Wait! Are we bringing back the Ninja craze? I'm still sporting my mohawk and black van from my A-Team phase!


 
LOL, but how old does it make you feel though when you've seen all these crazes come and go then return!


----------



## Tez3

MJS said:


> 1) I agree. And I don't want to sound like I'm picking on MMA, because those same boneheads can be found in pretty much every art.
> 
> 2) True, but like I said, those folks (the boneheads) assume that because it works for 10 people, that its a given it'll work for them. *Additionally, I tend to cringe when I see people with the, "Well, if my Master says it* *worked and he used it*, *and his teacher had success, and his teachers* *teacher...it must work!"* *line.* Like I said, I don't care if it works for them, due to the fact that its not going to be them thats defending me, it'll be me. My Kenpo inst, my Arnis inst...they can both pull off moves that leave me in wide eyed, yet, those same moves may not be on my fav. list. I try not to run around saying that Kenpo is the best standup art. Its the best for me though. When I talk about the importance of learning ground defense, may people assume I'm talking about BJJ. Not the case, as I always give credit to the other grappling arts out there. ..................
> quote]
> 
> 
> On a recent seminar with Iain Abernethy one of the things he said that stuck in my mind was that not all techniques work for everyone and you have to work out which ones do and don't. He says he has a good idea what works for him with his height and weight and he knows what he's capable of but it's different for everyone. It's actually a relief to hear that because as you said when people say it works for them and their instructor etc etc you feel it's your fault when something won't work plus they look at you as if you are a numpty! Instead it turns out that it can't work for you! We did techniques and Iain would suggest ways of making them work for us not him. I learnt a lot that day.


----------



## LoneRider

Little off topic, again, but I wonder how great it would be if several FMA organizations (Doce Pares/etc...) all collaborated to train and prepare select fighters for an MMA promotion of any kind. I'd say they'd create some good fighters, but getting said organizations (or large group of Filipinos) to agree on anything would be like herding cats. 

Disclaimer: I am Filipino. Raised in the States, yes, but I am Filipino and getting any group of my relatives to agree on anything is like herding cats, without the border collie's assistance. I meant no racial slurs with that last statement. 

I would love to see a group of FMA and MMA trained Filipino fighters compete and do well a la Pacquio in any MMA promotion. It'd bring great attention to our native fighting arts and be a great source of cultural pride for our people.


----------



## ap Oweyn

MJS said:


> 1) I agree. And I don't want to sound like I'm picking on MMA, because those same boneheads can be found in pretty much every art.


Oh I didn't get the impression you were picking on anyone.  Don't worry.



> Watch from 2:20 on. So basically what you're saying is, is that if he was lower, bending more with the knees, that wouldn't have happened? Personally, I don't think that Jim thought that the Kajukenbo guy would've had the defense that he did. As for experience, I think a 5-1 record is a pretty good start.


 
I think you're right that he didn't expect that guy to have the defense.  But Jimmy was also pretty fatigued, that being his third opponent in a row.  He bent at the waist, presenting his back.  He also didn't "shoot" in the sense that there was no overwhelming forward motion.  He just kinda flopped around the guy's waist.  (This is no disrespect to Jimmy Smith.  I wouldn't have gotten that far.)

The guy was also absurdly tall and knew how to sprawl.  He successfully sprawls before dropping the elbow.  Whereas most of the "I'd just drop the elbow on his spine" arguments I've heard reject the necessity of learning to sprawl so you can retain your structure long enough to drop an elbow.

But yeah, if he'd bent at the knee, then he would have presented his shoulders and kept his upper body more upright as he shot.  At least, that's what I've seen in pure wrestling.  Mind you, in a format that allows knees and so on, that also presents its own hazards.



> I think you and I agree more than we disagree.


 
Not a doubt in my mind about that, mate.

Thanks!


Stuart


----------



## Ronin74

Tez3 said:


> LOL, but how old does it make you feel though when you've seen all these crazes come and go then return!



LOL... It ranks up there with an older customer and I talking about 8-tracks, and 20-something co-workers looking at me in confusion.


----------



## Ronin74

LoneRider said:


> Little off topic, again, but I wonder how great it would be if several FMA organizations (Doce Pares/etc...) all collaborated to train and prepare select fighters for an MMA promotion of any kind. I'd say they'd create some good fighters, but getting said organizations (or large group of Filipinos) to agree on anything would be like herding cats.
> 
> Disclaimer: I am Filipino. Raised in the States, yes, but I am Filipino and getting any group of my relatives to agree on anything is like herding cats, without the border collie's assistance. I meant no racial slurs with that last statement.
> 
> I would love to see a group of FMA and MMA trained Filipino fighters compete and do well a la Pacquio in any MMA promotion. It'd bring great attention to our native fighting arts and be a great source of cultural pride for our people.


Unfortunately, your disclaimer sort of sums it up. I'm not trying to paint us in a negative light, but for the most part, our culture tends to switch gears when it's in a competitive spotlight, and I've been told by my parents, aunts and uncles that Filipinos already tend to be competitive in the first place.

Invite us to a BBQ and we're good company, but ask us who's better at BBQ-ing and instantly it's a competition... LOL


----------



## Tez3

Ronin74 said:


> Unfortunately, your disclaimer sort of sums it up. I'm not trying to paint us in a negative light, but for the most part, our culture tends to switch gears when it's in a competitive spotlight, and I've been told by my parents, aunts and uncles that Filipinos already tend to be competitive in the first place.
> 
> *Invite us to a BBQ and we're good company, but ask us who's better at BBQ-ing and instantly it's a competition...* LOL


 

Isn't that just men as a whole?


----------



## Ronin74

Tez3 said:


> Isn't that just men as a whole?


That depends. "Man Law" (yes, the concept is becoming more popular... lol) encourages camaraderie at the grill, such as when the designated cook (a position of great prestige I might add) has to take a restroom break. He can choose who tends to the grill temporarily, but whoever is chosen must NEVER deride the cook's skills.

Yes, a Man Law. LOL

Seriously Tez, it may be, but there's sort of an unique little quirk to it that I can't describe... lol.


----------



## Tez3

Ronin74 said:


> That depends. "Man Law" (yes, the concept is becoming more popular... lol) encourages camaraderie at the grill, such as when the designated cook (a position of great prestige I might add) has to take a restroom break. He can choose who tends to the grill temporarily, but whoever is chosen must NEVER deride the cook's skills.
> 
> Yes, a Man Law. LOL
> 
> Seriously Tez, it may be, but there's sort of an unique little quirk to it that I can't describe... lol.


 
Ah, it's something I and my fellow women shall never experience.........
(thank goodness she whispers) lol!


----------



## Carol

Ronin74 said:


> Unfortunately, your disclaimer sort of sums it up. I'm not trying to paint us in a negative light, but for the most part, our culture tends to switch gears when it's in a competitive spotlight, and I've been told by my parents, aunts and uncles that Filipinos already tend to be competitive in the first place.
> 
> Invite us to a BBQ and we're good company, but ask us who's better at BBQ-ing and instantly it's a competition... LOL



You're all invited anyway.  I'll supply charcoal and cold drinks.

Now who wants to show me if their Chicken Adobo is better than mine?


----------



## Ronin74

Carol Kaur said:


> You're all invited anyway. I'll supply charcoal and cold drinks.
> 
> Now who wants to show me if their Chicken Adobo is better than mine?


I won't even try to compete... lol. To be honest, I never took a liking to adobo, and I grew up with my dad and uncles doing a lot of BBQ-ing (while drinking) or frying, so my skill set would go towards frying fish, lumpia, bananas, or BBQ-ing meat, and of course cooking rice (fried or steamed... lol.).

Sadly, in the past few years, I've tried to steer away from Filipino food, as it's usually not very healthy when it tastes very good.


----------



## LoneRider

> I won't even try to compete... lol. To be honest, I never took a liking to adobo, and I grew up with my dad and uncles doing a lot of BBQ-ing (while drinking) or frying, so my skill set would go towards frying fish, lumpia, bananas, or BBQ-ing meat, and *of course cooking rice* (fried or steamed... lol.).


 
That's roughly the extent of my culinary abilities as well, although I also grill fish frequently as well and have experimented with healthier recipes I do like.

That bolded skill is inherent to Filipino childhoods. 



> Unfortunately, your disclaimer sort of sums it up. I'm not trying to paint us in a negative light, but for the most part, our culture tends to switch gears when it's in a competitive spotlight, and I've been told by my parents, aunts and uncles that Filipinos already tend to be competitive in the first place.


 
 Dad and my Titos (Uncles for not Filipinos in the audience) will often say that we tend to squabble too much and that holds us back. I can only imagine if all the FMA organizations in collaboration with experienced MMA trainers were to try and put their heads together to create a training program, select a team, and train a group of fighters to fight in any MMA promotion. I get the feeling we'd be squabbling over who's brother, cousin, tito, tita, sister, etc...has the best dietary program, best fighters, etc... for a long while.

Again, not to paint us in a negative light, but our competitiveness at times hinders as well as helps. But a culture that produces a boxer like Pacquio could probably churn out a great MMA fighter or three given time...


----------



## Ronin74

LoneRider said:


> Dad and my Titos (Uncles for not Filipinos in the audience) will often say that we tend to squabble too much and that holds us back. I can only imagine if all the FMA organizations in collaboration with experienced MMA trainers were to try and put their heads together to create a training program, select a team, and train a group of fighters to fight in any MMA promotion. I get the feeling we'd be squabbling over who's brother, cousin, tito, tita, sister, etc...has the best dietary program, best fighters, etc... for a long while.
> 
> Again, not to paint us in a negative light, but our competitiveness at times hinders as well as helps. But a culture that produces a boxer like Pacquio could probably churn out a great MMA fighter or three given time...


That's it in a nutshell. What's sad is that the FMAs do have arts that specialize in grappling and striking as well as weapons, but the squabbling over the pettiness of who or what group would be the best resource for a particular aspect of the MMA game is what holds us back.

I've been out of touch with other FMA practitioners as of late, but when I was involved, a lot of groups seemed to be at each other's throats, looking to "represent" or show loyalty to their respective crews. And this wasn't a "style" thing either. I remember hearing about friction between the students of the Presas brothers, as well as the conflicts between students from Cabales Eskrima. I'm hoping it's cooled down in the time I've been gone. The sad thing was each of these groups probably would've had something to gain by working together.

I honestly think it's an issue of pride when it gets down to it. We've got a lot of MMA camps that come together because different trainers like what other trainers bring to the game. I remember when Fairtex was the place to train in the Bay Area, they had their Muay Thai game set, but that didn't stop them from introducing good boxing coaches and BJJ instructors. There wasn't that friction, but more of encouragement. If your ground game needed help, they told you to jump into the BJJ classes, if your striking needed work, they sent you to the boxing or MT coaches.

But in FMAs? At least from my experience, your crew and your teacher were practically the be-all-end-all of training.


----------



## Ronin74

LoneRider said:


> That's roughly the extent of my culinary abilities as well, although I also grill fish frequently as well and have experimented with healthier recipes I do like.
> 
> That bolded skill is inherent to Filipino childhoods.


Yeah, that cooking of rice was almost like a rite of passage into the world of more chores. I know for a fact that I learned how to clean and cook rice before I got into middle school. And lets not get into the use of garlic or soy sauce... lol.


----------



## LoneRider

> That's it in a nutshell. What's sad is that the FMAs do have arts that specialize in grappling and striking as well as weapons, but the squabbling over the pettiness of who or what group would be the best resource for a particular aspect of the MMA game is what holds us back.
> 
> I've been out of touch with other FMA practitioners as of late, but when I was involved, a lot of groups seemed to be at each other's throats, looking to "represent" or show loyalty to their respective crews. And this wasn't a "style" thing either. I remember hearing about friction between the students of the Presas brothers, as well as the conflicts between students from Cabales Eskrima. I'm hoping it's cooled down in the time I've been gone. The sad thing was each of these groups probably would've had something to gain by working together.
> 
> I honestly think it's an issue of pride when it gets down to it.


 
Lord knows I agree with you whole heartedly there, my friend. It would be something great to see if all the grandmasters of the various FMAs were to collaborate with each other and with experienced MMA specific trainers (for polish) on something like training a group of MMA fighters to compete in various MMA promotions. It would be publicity central for the FMAs if said fighters were to win or even give a good showing.

Not to mention the good publicity said fighters generate would spur interest in the FMAs from overseas. Meaning more dollars for the various organizations who would suddenly receive interested personnel. Meaning gains to be had for all of them, not just one or two. But sadly the aforementioned attitude mentioned tends to hold us back.


----------



## MJS

ap Oweyn said:


> Oh I didn't get the impression you were picking on anyone. Don't worry.


 






> I think you're right that he didn't expect that guy to have the defense. But Jimmy was also pretty fatigued, that being his third opponent in a row. He bent at the waist, presenting his back. He also didn't "shoot" in the sense that there was no overwhelming forward motion. He just kinda flopped around the guy's waist. (This is no disrespect to Jimmy Smith. I wouldn't have gotten that far.)
> 
> The guy was also absurdly tall and knew how to sprawl. He successfully sprawls before dropping the elbow. Whereas most of the "I'd just drop the elbow on his spine" arguments I've heard reject the necessity of learning to sprawl so you can retain your structure long enough to drop an elbow.
> 
> But yeah, if he'd bent at the knee, then he would have presented his shoulders and kept his upper body more upright as he shot. At least, that's what I've seen in pure wrestling. Mind you, in a format that allows knees and so on, that also presents its own hazards.


 
Agreed.  That guy he fought was a giant.  There was one clip where he grabbed Jimmy by the shirt, and shook him like a rag doll.  Likewise, regarding the elbow to the back....yeah, many of the 'defenders' of that tech. are probably not taking into consideration the sprawling.  Personally, thats one of the reasons I like to test my Kenpo takedown defenses against those in the grappling arts.  Not so much as to turn it into a competition, but to make the defense better.  Interestingly enough, more times than not, I find myself falling back on the sprawl.  LOL...go figure.





> Not a doubt in my mind about that, mate.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> 
> Stuart


 
:ultracool


----------



## JKD143

Tez3 said:


> I thought shall I post about this or shan't I, then I thought 'oh lets add to my post count' so I am replying, hey why not it's what internet warriors do isn't it? And I might get lots of thanks for it too, whooppee! Maybe even a rep point if I'm lucky!



I'm glad you did.



Tez3 said:


> Yeah I know everything cuz I roll in the gym, yep thats me,though I don't *coach* other peoples competitions whatever that means.



Whether or not you actually believe that, you certainly come across that way in many of your posts. 




Tez3 said:


> Should we ignore my military service starting in 1971,



No, we shouldn't. However, when you make broad, condescending statements with a "pat on the head" attitude, expecting some of us to just take all you say as fact, without engaging any real conversation on the subject, all I am left with is a heavy handed opinion and a post count. That is the stuff of internet warriors. Is that what you are? Doesn't look like it. Is that how you treated our initial conversation. Yup. 




Tez3 said:


> I'm sorry you lost people but son, you ain't the only one. Ever been stood next to mate when a sniper put a round through his head and you got splattered with his brain? Northern Ireland 1972.



I have had similar experiences. 




Tez3 said:


> Thats just the start of it, guess I may have seen more violence that many but then you think I'm liar, right, what I say isn't the truth,



No, I wouldn't call you a liar. You appear as one when you start a conversation questioning a persons credibility, start a conversation you don't intend to actually have, and then, rather than give it any real discussion or consideration, resort to name calling;



Tez3 said:


> numties and nuggets



Condescending statements; 



Tez3 said:


> ah poor deluded boy!... Little man..


 etc... ad nauseum



Tez3 said:


> Why does it worry you so much what others write?



It doesn't bother me personally, however, I recognize that people come here looking for SD information, and that incorrect notions, opinions and poor information could get someone hurt or killed, so I do believe it should be taken seriously. 




Tez3 said:


> why are you getting so upset?



No where have I gotten upset. The only post calling you out on your potential as a keyboard warrior came long after you addressed me in a post asking questions, beginning a conversation you refused to actually have, and it came long after I was misquoted, you contradicted yourself and after condescending and inflammatory posts from you and your loyal pal. 

It's a shame that from the start, you were so resistant to just having a constructive conversation regarding the questions you originally asked me. 
Given what you have posted above, we have had some similar experiences (as I'm sure others here have)and could likely have had a goo conversation but your knee jerk, defensive reactions to a post you don't agree with or don't understand seems to have killed that option. 

I wish you well. Stay safe.


----------



## Tez3

JKD143 said:


> I'm glad you did.
> 
> 
> 
> Whether or not you actually believe that, you certainly come across that way in many of your posts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, we shouldn't. However, when you make broad, condescending statements with a "pat on the head" attitude, expecting some of us to just take all you say as fact, without engaging any real conversation on the subject, all I am left with is a heavy handed opinion and a post count. That is the stuff of internet warriors. Is that what you are? Doesn't look like it. Is that how you treated our initial conversation. Yup.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have had similar experiences.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, I wouldn't call you a liar. You appear as one when you start a conversation questioning a persons credibility, start a conversation you don't intend to actually have, and then, rather than give it any real discussion or consideration, resort to name calling;
> 
> 
> 
> Condescending statements;
> 
> etc... ad nauseum
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn't bother me personally, however, I recognize that people come here looking for SD information, and that incorrect notions, opinions and poor information could get someone hurt or killed, so I do believe it should be taken seriously.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No where have I gotten upset. The only post calling you out on your potential as a keyboard warrior came long after you addressed me in a post asking questions, beginning a conversation you refused to actually have, and it came long after I was misquoted, you contradicted yourself and after condescending and inflammatory posts from you and your loyal pal.
> 
> It's a shame that from the start, you were so resistant to just having a constructive conversation regarding the questions you originally asked me.
> Given what you have posted above, we have had some similar experiences (as I'm sure others here have)and could likely have had a goo conversation but your knee jerk, defensive reactions to a post you don't agree with or don't understand seems to have killed that option.
> 
> I wish you well. Stay safe.


 
It's such a shame you missed the point isn't it?


----------



## ap Oweyn

Does this actually _need_ to be a public exchange?  Seems to me that it would benefit MartialTalk more if this were sorted out in private.


----------



## Nolerama

Lol. Lumpia is excellent training food! At least, that's what I tell myself.


----------



## Tez3

ap Oweyn said:


> Does this actually _need_ to be a public exchange? Seems to me that it would benefit MartialTalk more if this were sorted out in private.


 
It didn't need to be an exchange in the first place. JKD143 has obviously taken a dislike to things I've posted and decided to make a personal attack which is against the rules here. However I have tried to deflect it with typical British humour which admittedly isn't understood or appriciated by all and has in this case been mistaken for a lot of other things.
If KKD would care to PM with exactly what has upset him perhaps having got it off his chest we can resume normal service.


----------



## ap Oweyn

Tez3 said:


> It didn't need to be an exchange in the first place. JKD143 has obviously taken a dislike to things I've posted and decided to make a personal attack which is against the rules here. However I have tried to deflect it with typical British humour which admittedly isn't understood or appriciated by all and has in this case been mistaken for a lot of other things.
> If KKD would care to PM with exactly what has upset him perhaps having got it off his chest we can resume normal service.


 
Then I'd encourage him to do just that.  


Stuart


----------



## Tez3

ap Oweyn said:


> Then I'd encourage him to do just that.
> 
> 
> Stuart


 

Thank you, it would be appreciated.


I would add that if someones posts, opinions or ideas are considered offensive or otherwise not to your taste, there are two courses of action that can be taken, the use of the ignore function or report the post(s) to the mods.


----------



## ap Oweyn

Tez3 said:


> Thank you, it would be appreciated.
> 
> 
> I would add that if someones posts, opinions or ideas are considered offensive or otherwise not to your taste, there are two courses of action that can be taken, the use of the ignore function or report the post(s) to the mods.


 
You talking to me or him?


----------



## Carol

*shrug* 

Doesn't matter.  If anyone posts, opinions or ideas are considered offensive or otherwise not to your taste, there are two courses of action that anyone else can be take, the use of the ignore function or report the post(s) to the mods.

Can we get back to the fight discussion now?


----------



## Tez3

ap Oweyn said:


> You talking to me or him?


 

As Carol said, it was a general comment addressed to everyone.


When a quote is posted, the next sentence/paragraph usually refers to that. When, as I posted, there is a space before the next comment, it is a general one, people shouldn't assume in that case the post is directed totally at them. People are assuming that because their quote is at the top the whole post is directed at them.


----------



## Ronin74

Nolerama said:


> Lol. Lumpia is excellent training food! At least, that's what I tell myself.


Well it will test your alertness once the food coma hits... lol.

Going back to the original topic, I invited my family to watch UFC 100 (believe me, I was surprised they all enjoyed it) and my dad and I got to talking about how the fighters do a lot of conditioning drills, like what's shown in UFC: All Access. He mentioned that if I'd been living in the Philippines in his time, most likely I'd be holding down a manual labor job, and that might've been conditioning enough.

Of course, it might've been offset by all that San Miguel... lol.


----------



## ap Oweyn

Tez3 said:


> As Carol said, it was a general comment addressed to everyone.
> 
> 
> When a quote is posted, the next sentence/paragraph usually refers to that. When, as I posted, there is a space before the next comment, it is a general one, people shouldn't assume in that case the post is directed totally at them. People are assuming that because their quote is at the top the whole post is directed at them.


 
I wasn't assuming anything.  That's why I asked for clarification.

Bottom line:  That logic cuts both ways.  His personal attack on you could have been reported to a mod.  And any one of his posts could have been ignored.  But at the end of the day, this is between you two.  So I'm off.


Stuart


----------



## Tez3

ap Oweyn said:


> I wasn't assuming anything. That's why I asked for clarification.
> 
> Bottom line: That logic cuts both ways. His personal attack on you could have been reported to a mod. And any one of his posts could have been ignored. But at the end of the day, this is between you two. So I'm off.
> 
> 
> Stuart


 

The problem being of course that anything put on here, the internet, is basically there forever and when someone writes stuff that is erroneous other readers will then think thats the truth, If I posted up that FMA consisted of Judo and Muay Thai and everyone ignored that post, there would be people out there thinking they wouldn't bother learning FMA because of that, it should be challenged don't you think?

I rarely report posts unless they are particularly nasty, I deemed this to be a particularly bland attack tbh so was hardly going to report it. My curiosity is piqued however about what the attack was about hence my replying, I thought he'd actually say why he was so peeved with me and yes, as the attack was made on the public forums yes, it should also be explained on the public forums, it's hardly just between 'us two'. 
Making attacks on people on here is everyones business after all it's your space too and washing your hands of it won't stop the next one by anyone who wants to make one, perhaps against you.


----------



## LoneRider

> _Lol. Lumpia is excellent training food! At least, that's what I tell myself._
> Well it will test your alertness once the food coma hits... lol.


 
You both said it. Do any circuit training with a gut full of our standard cuisine and I guarantee it'll be a constant battle _not_ to throw up. Heck I once had pork adobo Grandma had made before one circuit training workout. I nearly puked with my first set...


----------



## ap Oweyn

Tez3 said:


> The problem being of course that anything put on here, the internet, is basically there forever and when someone writes stuff that is erroneous other readers will then think thats the truth, If I posted up that FMA consisted of Judo and Muay Thai and everyone ignored that post, there would be people out there thinking they wouldn't bother learning FMA because of that, it should be challenged don't you think?
> 
> I rarely report posts unless they are particularly nasty, I deemed this to be a particularly bland attack tbh so was hardly going to report it. My curiosity is piqued however about what the attack was about hence my replying, I thought he'd actually say why he was so peeved with me and yes, as the attack was made on the public forums yes, it should also be explained on the public forums, it's hardly just between 'us two'.
> Making attacks on people on here is everyones business after all it's your space too and washing your hands of it won't stop the next one by anyone who wants to make one, perhaps against you.


 
Look mate, I'm not new to internet forums.  I understand all the pros and cons here.  And I'm not washing my hands.  But the fact is that what's been done so far isn't working.  And nothing _I_ do is going to prompt you and this JKD bloke to work things out constructively.  That's up to you two.  This ceased to be about FMA pages ago.


----------



## Tez3

ap Oweyn said:


> Look mate, I'm not new to internet forums. I understand all the pros and cons here. And I'm not washing my hands. But the fact is that what's been done so far isn't working. And nothing _I_ do is going to prompt you and this JKD bloke to work things out constructively. That's up to you two. This ceased to be about FMA pages ago.


 
Sorry but I'm not 'mate'.
The thread is now about food, hadn't you noticed


----------



## ap Oweyn

Tez3 said:


> Sorry but I'm not 'mate'.


 
Does that mean we're hostile now?  I certainly hope not.  I'm certainly not viewing us that way.  Or are you saying that because you're a woman?  If so, sorry.  I guess I hadn't really thought of the term as gender specific.  I call all my friends "guys" regardless.

My apologies if it was the wrong term.  It's been a great many years since I've been home to England.  My vocab may be rusty.



> The thread is now about food, hadn't you noticed


 
Well, I'll happily decimate a plate of lumpia.  So I can get behind that discussion as well.


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## Ronin74

Here's a clip I just found on youtube of MMA in the Philippines.


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## LoneRider

> Sorry but I'm not 'mate'.
> The thread is now about food, hadn't you noticed


 
Well, Tez3, Filipinos are the consummate gourmands of Asia. We tend to make enough food to feed a battalion for several days (or a Filipino family for a week) in one sitting.


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## Tez3

ap Oweyn said:


> Does that mean we're hostile now? I certainly hope not. I'm certainly not viewing us that way. Or are you saying that because you're a woman? If so, sorry. I guess I hadn't really thought of the term as gender specific. I call all my friends "guys" regardless.
> 
> My apologies if it was the wrong term. It's been a great many years since I've been home to England. My vocab may be rusty.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, I'll happily decimate a plate of lumpia. So I can get behind that discussion as well.


 
Not in the least hostile but mate is a male 'endearment' lol! 'Guys' is the archetypical American word to us lol, that and 'high five'! Guys is very def a 'male' word to us, women here would look askance at being called that even after years of American telly programmes.

Everyone tends to think British food is awful but we have some wonderful regional dishes many of which should never be eaten before training!


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## ap Oweyn

Tez3 said:


> Not in the least hostile but mate is a male 'endearment' lol! 'Guys' is the archetypical American word to us lol, that and 'high five'! Guys is very def a 'male' word to us, women here would look askance at being called that even after years of American telly programmes.


 
My fault.  As I say, I haven't lived in England for many years.  Two thirds of my life actually.  No offense intended.



> Everyone tends to think British food is awful but we have some wonderful regional dishes many of which should never be eaten before training!


 
Hell, I'd be happy if we could get one local shop to sell Cornish pasties.  Making them myself is a right pain in the backside.


Stuart


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## LoneRider

Well as far as British food goes, Fish and Chips is a special weakness of mine for after training (once consumed a basket before training and promptly walked out of the gym to vomit behind a bush...)


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## Nolerama

The MMA scene in the PI seems to be growing exponentially. I'd assume that a lot of the FMA schools there already have a MMA competition team if not only to market their schools. Considering the likelihood of a saturated MA market (all markets seem to be saturated in the PI) competition will be:

1- Tough because these dudes are strong, train to hit hard and fast (in the FMAs)

2- Are proactively going out to train sub grappling as a sport in iteself, instead of the transition to gi bjj to nogi sub grappling.

Look at the old clips of Filipino MMA, and you'll see some sloppy, but fundamental technique and look at those same fighters now, practically ripping each others' heads off.

What I do catch a lot in Filipino MMA is the popularity of t-shirts (not even rash guards) in competition. What would be a really cool thing to see is the fighters actually using their opponent's t-shirt in a sub. It would bring SD elements, and add another range into a fighter's game.

Hmm. My million dollar idea. For free. On Martial Talk. Word.


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## Ronin74

Nolerama said:


> What I do catch a lot in Filipino MMA is the popularity of t-shirts (not even rash guards) in competition. What would be a really cool thing to see is the fighters actually using their opponent's t-shirt in a sub. It would bring SD elements, and add another range into a fighter's game.
> 
> Hmm. My million dollar idea. For free. On Martial Talk. Word.


I saw a lot of t-shirts and tanktops and even gi pants worn on the first URCC event. Sadly, I think it's because some of them were on the diet we've been discussing.


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