# USAT commited to LaJust



## ATC (Dec 6, 2010)

http://usa-taekwondo.us/news/2010/1...-to-moving-taekwondo-forward-in-the-u-s/39836

*USAT & LaJust Committed to Moving Taekwondo Forward in the U.S.*

*USAT & LaJust Committed to Moving Taekwondo Forward in the U.S.*
*Bill Kellick December 06, 2010 *

*USA Taekwondo officials David Askinas and Mark Kaufmann recently held a series of meetings with LaJust America to discuss their continuing relationship and plans for the future of Olympic sparring in the USA. *

*&#8220;We have a strong partnership with LaJust and it will continue for many years to come,&#8221; said Askinas. &#8220;Our exclusive contract runs through 2013. We know that many of our members are making an investment in LaJust products and we want to assure everyone that the investment is sound as we will be using LaJust systems for years to come. The new 8.1 system hogu is the most advanced product in the field and is receiving positive feedback from both coaches and competitors. We are confident that LaJust will be the preferred PSS worldwide and set the industry standards for accuracy.&#8221;*

*Through the discussions between USAT and LaJust, and through a belief that we need to utilize the latest technology to improve and grow our state championships, USAT has asked LaJust to support our state associations and their qualifying events. LaJust has agreed to support as many state championships as possible. Rentals as well as purchase options will be available at state championships. USAT and LaJust are committed to having a very modest rental option open to all competitors that do not own LaJust hogus and no competitor will be denied access on account of price.*

*USAT encourages all state associations to prepare themselves for the future by purchasing LaJust ring sets and E-Gym systems.*


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## terryl965 (Dec 6, 2010)

*USAT and LaJust are committed to having a very modest rental option open to all competitors that do not own LaJust hogus and no competitor will be denied access on *account* of price.*

Seriously what does this mean, if you cannot afford the rental fee they will let you just use one. I am still confused about why they are using Lajust.


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## mango.man (Dec 6, 2010)

It means you need to show up at all USAT sanctioned events with the past 3 years copies of your tax records to prove that you can't afford whatever the rental fee is going to be.

I figure you must provide some sort of proof, otherwise wouldn't everyone just say that they can't afford it?  This seems to open a really big can of worms if some people buy, others rent for let's say $20, some perhaps rent for $10 and many "rent" for free.  

Who makes the decision the person A has to pay $20 but person B doesn't have to pay at all?


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## terryl965 (Dec 6, 2010)

So they will just go back to playing favorites once again.


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## troubleenuf (Dec 7, 2010)

The big question I have is if Lajust has fixed their problems?  The Daedo system is FAR superior to the Lajust system so if they havent fixed anything its still a crappy system that the USAT is tied into for a long time.


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## Archtkd (Dec 7, 2010)

troubleenuf said:


> The big question I have is if Lajust has fixed their problems? The Daedo system is FAR superior to the Lajust system so if they havent fixed anything its still a crappy system that the USAT is tied into for a long time.


 
If the Daedo system is "far superior" to LaJaust, why did the WTF -- to the dissapointment of the Korean team-- switch to the LaJust system at the recently concluded Asia Games? For the old timers, is this a VCR V/s BETA type of commercial battle, politics, or real technology difference that make one system superior to the other?


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## RSweet (Dec 7, 2010)

terryl965 said:


> *USAT and LaJust are committed to having a very modest rental option open to all competitors that do not own LaJust hogus and no competitor will be denied access on *account* of price.*
> 
> Seriously what does this mean, if you cannot afford the rental fee they will let you just use one. I am still confused about why they are using Lajust.



They are using LaJust because they were the ones who agreed to give them the most money $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ and that is why you have to rent or buy the LaJust equipment because LaJust knows they will make it back on footies and hogues and rentals and sale. They didn't give usat that much cash because they like David. 2011 you will be REQUIRED to have it for USAT events.


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## terryl965 (Dec 7, 2010)

Yes Rhonda I understand that, but what about the part that says the wil make sure everyone can use them regardless of money. So if I say my players cannot afford them then they can use them for free? How to they determin who can and cannot get them for free?


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## miguksaram (Dec 7, 2010)

Curious...how much do these things cost?  What are their repair costs like?  If I buy one and it is malfunctioning how long does it take to get them fixed?  Is there even an option to get them repaired if they malfunction?


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## troubleenuf (Dec 7, 2010)

I have used both systems and its there are big difference between the two.  Daedo scores more consistently and scores in the legal target areas.  Given the choice myself and my players would pick Daedo any day.
  And yes... the only reason they used Lajust is because of the $ bills that changed hands... not based upon what is best for the athletes.



Archtkd said:


> If the Daedo system is "far superior" to LaJaust, why did the WTF -- to the dissapointment of the Korean team-- switch to the LaJust system at the recently concluded Asia Games? For the old timers, is this a VCR V/s BETA type of commercial battle, politics, or real technology difference that make one system superior to the other?


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## terryl965 (Dec 7, 2010)

The Hogu is $495.00 and the socks are around $45.00 a pair. It is prety steep for the everage player.


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## Gorilla (Dec 7, 2010)

How long can this last!


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## terryl965 (Dec 7, 2010)

Gorilla said:


> How long can this last!


 
Forever and I mean forever


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## RSweet (Dec 8, 2010)

terryl965 said:


> Yes Rhonda I understand that, but what about the part that says the wil make sure everyone can use them regardless of money. So if I say my players cannot afford them then they can use them for free? How to they determin who can and cannot get them for free?



I don't read it will be free. I know how they work. He is saying that the rental will be what they consider reasonable. Remember, this is also the year that he is enforcing Stay to Play. USAT needs cash. period.


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## miguksaram (Dec 8, 2010)

terryl965 said:


> The Hogu is $495.00 and the socks are around $45.00 a pair. It is prety steep for the everage player.


 I thought my Kumdo armor was expensive!  That is ridiculous.  I still have my questions about what happens when the equipment needs repairs.  What is the life span of such equipment?  All of this just because people can't trust manual judging?


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## Archtkd (Dec 8, 2010)

troubleenuf said:


> I have used both systems and its there are big difference between the two. Daedo scores more consistently and scores in the legal target areas. Given the choice myself and my players would pick Daedo any day.
> And yes... the only reason they used Lajust is because of the $ bills that changed hands... not based upon what is best for the athletes.


 
Thanks for the good info. What are the cost differences? I wonder if the are also other issues at play. I think I read somewhere that Daedo is a Spanish company and LaJust is a Korean company.


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## terryl965 (Dec 8, 2010)

The cost is the same, why USAT decided to go with Unjust is simple they gave the most money to USAT. They did not do it on preformance it was strickly about cash. This is why USAT is not really growing anymore they forgot it is about the athletes and what is best for them.


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## Daniel Sullivan (Dec 8, 2010)

terryl965 said:


> The Hogu is $495.00 and the socks are around $45.00 a pair. It is prety steep for the everage player.


I hope that I don't come off as flippant or sarcastic, but....

Gee, I *wish* kendo bogu were that inexpensive. My mid level bogu with no electronics was over six hundred dollars. The cheap gear is four hundred and expensive sets go into the thousands. Plus the cost of shinai, which never ends if you stay with it. Not to mention that there are no 19.95 doboks for kendo.

Here's essentially what I had to get:

Uniform
http://www.e-mudo.com/Top_Quality_ZonShin_Navy_Set_Single_layer_Tetron_p/msetsn.htm
Bogu
http://www.e-mudo.com/Machine_Made_3_0_m_m_Standard_Bogu_Set_p/sm301.htm
Shinai
http://www.e-mudo.com/Kenshi_39AAA_Competition_Complete_p/ws39kenshi.htm
Bokuto
http://www.e-mudo.com/100cm_Master_White_Bokuto_from_Japan_p/100whiteoakbokuto.htm

The costs of that tarrs and feathers the cost of the LaJust hogu and a TKD dobok. Take a look through the website and you'll see that I bought the chump change gear. Uniforms get into the hundreds, some over seven hundred. Bogu can get into the thousand*s*. Shinai can also exceeed one hundred dollars.

If you do iaido, well, you don't need the bogu, but eventually, you'll get to where you'll need an iaito, and that'll set you back over three hundred most likely.  And if you get that shinken, well, my shinken would by four of the LaJust hogu.

Since we're talking sports, how about a comparison to other contact sports: 

Here's what it would cost to gear up your high school quarterback:

Shoulder pads: 
http://www.dickssportinggoods.com/family/index.jsp?categoryId=2360743
Ribb guards
http://www.dickssportinggoods.com/family/index.jsp?categoryId=2360751
Assorted other pads
http://www.dickssportinggoods.com/family/index.jsp?categoryId=2360747
http://www.dickssportinggoods.com/family/index.jsp?categoryId=2360744
http://www.dickssportinggoods.com/family/index.jsp?categoryId=2360749

Cleats
http://www.dickssportinggoods.com/family/index.jsp?categoryId=2360730

Helmets are likely furnished by the team, but here they are just for completeness:
http://www.dickssportinggoods.com/family/index.jsp?categoryId=2360737

The above assumes that the player or his parents are assuming the cost of all but the helmet, jersey and pants, as I'd assume that those are going to be team specific. I don't know how gear acquisition is in football, but if you're going to play, you can easily top five hundred in protective gear. 

Hey, maybe nobody has to pay for their gear in football, but I kind of doubt that.

As far as one on one contact sports go, how about fencing:

Foil electric starter kit:
http://shop.fencing.net/product_p/fdn-ef-comp1.htm
FIE rated mask
http://shop.fencing.net/product_p/lp-280c.htm
FIE rated Jacket
http://shop.fencing.net/product_p/fwf10001.htm
FIE rated knickers
http://shop.fencing.net/product_p/fwf10002.htm

Going epee would be marginally cheaper; no lame required. Going saber would be more expensive, as that requires an electric mask and a lame with sleeves.
http://shop.fencing.net/Leon_Paul_Inox_Sabre_Lame_p/lp-s30.htm

As you can see, its pretty easy to hit five hundred dollars with approved gear.

And don't even get me started on competitive cycling (did that in high school, only BMX thank God; the necessary equipment for touring was unattainable without a sponsor). 

The issue of the LaJust equipment being inferior....


troubleenuf said:


> The big question I have is if Lajust has fixed their problems? The Daedo system is FAR superior to the Lajust system so if they havent fixed anything its still a crappy system that the USAT is tied into for a long time.


...is really the only justifiable complaint that you can make.

If you wanted a competitive contact sport, congratulations! You got one. And all of the gear related costs that go with it that rest of us have to put up with if we want to play. The fact that a corporate entity has financed its way into being the 'official' gear should surprise nobody either, and is probably pretty commonplace in sports.

Whenever there's gear, there's costs. Whenever there are competitions that take you out of state, there are costs. In order to be trained to compete, there's a cost. Making it an olympic sport means that there will now be unique equipment requirements, which will, of course increase said costs. 

Those costs will eliminate some people from participation. Sad, but reality. 

The fact that they have at least something in place for the financially disadvantaged is pretty good in my opinion, so I'm not sure why I saw some criticisms of it. 

Just be thankful that the costs for taekwondo gear is actually relatively cheap, even at 500.00 a crack for electric gear. 

Daniel


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## miguksaram (Dec 8, 2010)

Daniel Sullivan said:


> I hope that I don't come off as flippant or sarcastic, but....
> 
> Gee, I *wish* kendo bogu were that inexpensive. My mid level bogu with no electronics was over six hundred dollars. The cheap gear is four hundred and expensive sets go into the thousands. Plus the cost of shinai, which never ends if you stay with it. Not to mention that there are no 19.95 doboks for kendo.


Where do you shop for your gear?  I know the higher end bogus will can go up into the $1000's of dollars, however you can get some mid level from $300-$500  at ebogu.com.


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## ATC (Dec 8, 2010)

Daniel Sullivan said:


> Since we're talking sports, how about a comparison to other contact sports:
> 
> Here's what it would cost to gear up your high school quarterback:
> 
> ...


Not sure about today, but in my time all this was provided by the school. You only had to purchase any special or extra pads that you wanted not needed, and in most cases you could not wear it anyways.

I think most schools still do provide the equipment as they have to maintain it and ensure it is up to code to avoid any liabilities.

Will have to ask some of the high school football players if this is still the case.


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## dancingalone (Dec 8, 2010)

ATC said:


> Will have to ask some of the high school football players if this is still the case.



This was also the case when I played football in junior high and high school.  Not so much the case these days.  

The local high schools now charge a participation fee of around $300 per season which helps defray some of the schools' costs.  The rest is covered by the school budget (ultimately that comes from property taxes).  Not a huge sum for most of us here, but it's enough to keep some kids from playing.  They do have some fundraisers to help out the less fortunate kids.


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## Daniel Sullivan (Dec 8, 2010)

miguksaram said:


> Where do you shop for your gear? I know the higher end bogus will can go up into the $1000's of dollars, however you can get some mid level from $300-$500 at ebogu.com.


Mine was 650.00 by the time all was said and done. I am aware of the 399.99 set. I generally try to avoid the least expensive when it comes to protective gear, however. 

I shop at e-mudo.com mostly, though I have gotten a number of things through e-bogu as well. 

My point however, is that other sports do require similar investments. With kendo, you don't have official corporate sponsors or gear to rent at the events. You either have it or you do not. 

Fencing, like TKD is a martial sport with electric scoring and you are looking at similar money there too.

Daniel


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## Daniel Sullivan (Dec 8, 2010)

dancingalone said:


> This was also the case when I played football in junior high and high school. Not so much the case these days.
> 
> The local high schools now charge a participation fee of around $300 per season which helps defray some of the schools' costs. The rest is covered by the school budget (ultimately that comes from property taxes). Not a huge sum for most of us here, but it's enough to keep some kids from playing. They do have some fundraisers to help out the less fortunate kids.


So three hundred bucks for the season.  Play three seasons and you're almost up to a grand for junior high football.  Stick with it through high school and that's another 1200.  Plus the cost of cleats, which I doubt are included, and you've got probably another 60 to 80 dollars.  I'd gather that parents are responsible for the misceleneous gear (mouthpieces, cups, and elbow & shin pads).

The point is, and you confirm, that there is a substantial cost as compared to, say, soccor, which is essentially cleats, shin and elbow guards, knee pads, a cup and a mouth piece.

Look, 90% of the cute little kiddies who sign up for taekwondo will never compete or fight outside of the confines of their dojang.    

And at what point do you need electric gear?  State level?  National level?  and how many of those who do compete outside of their own dojang compete at this level?  I am asking because I have no idea, but I suspect that there is quite a bit of participation that can be done before gear like this is a necessity.

So the idea that the costs are keeping people from participating in the activity is flatly incorrect.

Want to keep the costs down?  Address the 500.00 plus dollars worth of testing fees that most TKD schools hammer you with between white belt and black belt.  Not to mention extra cost clubs and programs.  Get sport taekwondo organized like an actual *sport*.  Of course there is little incentive to do that, as that would put 90% of the dojangs in the US out of business.  

If any of those who are complaining are school owners who charge a hundred or more over the cost of the KKW fee for the BB test and charge for each colored belt test, you need to take a long look in the mirror before pointing the finger elsewhere.

Look, I'm not running to the defense of LaJust here.  I've never used the product and I no longer compete.  But aside from the performance issues, the rest comes off as complaining about USAT and LaJust just for the sake of complaining.

Daniel


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## terryl965 (Dec 8, 2010)

Daniel you are right one set is not expensive the problem lies here: Nobody is using the same equipment so you need to buy One Red and One Blue which is a Grand and there is on an average of five different sets you need, so it is really around $5000.00 and they do not last. They are built so you have to keep upgrading every year. Different events makes it impossible to have them all. Over the last year I have brought three differentr sets for the school that runs up around $11,000 per set. This include all the software and scoring guns that are wireless now and two sizes of every Hogu now times that by three sets and you have spent $33,000, now I am not complaining just pointing out when I said $495.00 that was for one hogu and not the complete set. Sock are only good for one tournament if they last for a whole tournament so that is an additional cost over and over again.

Just for the record no competitor is wearing  $19.95 uniform, most spend in the hundreds for one.

You are right we have chosen this sport for our childern but at the same time the WTF does not have to have so many approved ones out there for all these different orgs. to use and players need to buy.


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## dancingalone (Dec 8, 2010)

Daniel Sullivan said:


> So three hundred bucks for the season.  Play three seasons and you're almost up to a grand for junior high football.  Stick with it through high school and that's another 1200.  Plus the cost of cleats, which I doubt are included, and you've got probably another 60 to 80 dollars.  I'd gather that parents are responsible for the misceleneous gear (mouthpieces, cups, and elbow & shin pads).
> 
> *The point is, and you confirm, that there is a substantial cost as compared to, say, soccor*, which is essentially cleats, shin and elbow guards, knee pads, a cup and a mouth piece.



Absolutely.  And this is in football-crazed Texas.  I understand in some states, the schools don't subsidize even the popular sports at all due to financial constraints.  

TKD might be an expensive sport, but it certainly isn't more expensive than playing competitive junior tennis or golf.  I know all too well from the tennis side how much coaching and travel costs.  Like with anything, if you want to play at the top levels of the sports, there is a whole lot of expense tallied up to get there.  In tennis at least if you're identified as a future pro prospect, you can get sponsorships that defray the pain considerably.


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## Daniel Sullivan (Dec 8, 2010)

terryl965 said:


> Daniel you are right one set is not expensive the problem lies here: Nobody is using the same equipment so you need to buy One Red and One Blue which is a Grand and there is on an average of five different sets you need, so it is really around $5000.00 and they do not last. They are built so you have to keep upgrading every year. Different events makes it impossible to have them all. Over the last year I have brought three differentr sets for the school that runs up around $11,000 per set. This include all the software and scoring guns that are wireless now and two sizes of every Hogu now times that by three sets and you have spent $33,000, now I am not complaining just pointing out when I said $495.00 that was for one hogu and not the complete set. Sock are only good for one tournament if they last for a whole tournament so that is an additional cost over and over again.


That is insane.  I take it back; your complaint is completely justified!!!  Sheesh!  Talk about hidden costs!



terryl965 said:


> Just for the record no competitor is wearing  $19.95 uniform, most spend in the hundreds for one.


No, I wouldn't think that anyone would be using a 19.95 paper thin dobok in competition, though there is nothing preventing them from doing so either (aside from common sense).  But you can use one to get started in taekwondo. Kendo uniforms are substantially more expensive, competing or not.



terryl965 said:


> You are right we have chosen this sport for our childern but at the same time the WTF does not have to have so many approved ones out there for all these different orgs. to use and players need to buy.


Absolutely.  Really all that is needed is to require a standardized system so that anyone's hogu will work with anyone's scoring.  Problem solved.  

Daniel


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## LaJust (Dec 8, 2010)

terryl965 said:


> you need to buy One Red and One Blue which is a Grand



I may have misunderstood your post but if you are referring to LaJust equipment for USAT events, each competitor only needs a single Hogu ($479-$499) if they do not rent. We changed them to white at the start of this year (based on some vocal but justifiable feedback) and we have not sold the "Red" and "Blue" type since then.



terryl965 said:


> and there is on an average of five different sets you need, so it is really around $5000.00 and they do not last. They are built so you have to keep upgrading every year.


LaJust Hogus are available in sizes 1 through 5. The most popular size is size 3. Each competitor needs ONE Hogu. Most gyms will purchase either two sizes or a full set (in which case there is a discount) depending on their classes. LaJust Hogus are definitely built to last, in the US we have a one year warranty and include FREE upgrades to the latest sensor technology and should WTF rules change that would require a change to the Hogu we will cover that too (regardless of warranty coverage). No other EBP vendor has the extensive coverage that we do.

While we have had some unanticipated technical issues during the past year, there are no Hogus that we have sold to date in the US that we have not covered under warranty repair. The first Hogus were red and blue (version 7), the second generation were white (version 8) and the final generation is version 8.1 which have been getting very positive reviews and resolve static issues, includes additional self-diagnostics for the panels and updated sensor technology that now shows and records when a correctly formed kick is made but without enough power to score (you will see this indicated on the big screen scoring display).



terryl965 said:


> Sock are only good for one tournament if they last for a whole tournament so that is an additional cost over and over again.


The LaJust socks are $42 and we did free replacements in the US when a manufacturing defect was found in the zipper and free replacements for the old velcro kind. They definitely last if you treat them well and wash them in a cold delicate cycle and hang to dry as we have evidence from our own LaJust training gyms of this. 

I believe our warranty and support of our equipment in the US far exceeds any other EBP manufacturer though I concede that we have experienced growth pains that have had a detrimental impact on our service at times but we are committed to improving and listening to the feedback given about our products (sorry, USAT complaints I can't do anything about... :uhyeah: )


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## terryl965 (Dec 8, 2010)

LaJust said:


> I may have misunderstood your post but if you are referring to LaJust equipment for USAT events, each competitor only needs a single Hogu ($479-$499) if they do not rent. We changed them to white at the start of this year (based on some vocal but justifiable feedback) and we have not sold the "Red" and "Blue" type since then.
> 
> 
> LaJust Hogus are available in sizes 1 through 5. The most popular size is size 3. Each competitor needs ONE Hogu. Most gyms will purchase either two sizes or a full set (in which case there is a discount) depending on their classes. LaJust Hogus are definitely built to last, in the US we have a one year warranty and include FREE upgrades to the latest sensor technology and should WTF rules change that would require a change to the Hogu we will cover that too (regardless of warranty coverage). No other EBP vendor has the extensive coverage that we do.
> ...


 
Look lets just say you brought the whole set up at the beginning that is a total of 12 of them at a cost with dicounts of 20%, so 12 x 500 = $6000.00 - $1200.00 = $4800.00 for a complete set, Now add in the triggers and software another $18000 to run the system and socks, I believe wholesale they was $32.00 a piece at 100 pairs that is another $3200.00. So lets add this up $4800.00 + $3200.00 + $1800.00 = $9800.00 plus tax and shipping. I do not care how you would like to slice the pie if you buy everything you need to use it for your school, you are spending that $10,000 - $11,000 for the system. Now if you can seel me the whole set up for $ 3000.00 please do.

Here is a copy to the link do the math it is expensive https://www.daedousa.com/index.php/en/catalog/category/view/id/60

*Now please do not get me wrong here, but do not act like it is not that expensive either.*


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## taekwondodo (Dec 8, 2010)

Dear LaJust Rep,
I bought a pair of size 3 Red & Blue e-hogu in Feb. 2010.  Now they came out with the neutral hogus.  I also have dropped weight and at the lowest weight for female fighters 108.  How can I go and exchange for the neutral color, and the correct size hogus since my hogus are non-usable for any USAT tournaments.

An advise would greatly appreciated.


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## d1jinx (Dec 8, 2010)

The website still shows the red/blue colors.... when did they go neutral?

WTF.... i must have been sleeping!


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## ATC (Dec 8, 2010)

d1jinx said:


> The website still shows the red/blue colors.... when did they go neutral?
> 
> WTF.... i must have been sleeping!


Last 2 major tourneys here in the U.S. have been the neutral (all white) with red and blue velcro flags on the front and back. U.S. Open and the Sr. and Jr. Nationals. Fighters did not even take off the hogus, They just ripped off the blue flag and replaced it with a red one, or visa versa. Fighters just finished and went and sat down with the hogus still on. Made things go much faster.


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## d1jinx (Dec 8, 2010)

ATC said:


> Last 2 major tourneys here in the U.S. have been the neutral (all white) with red and blue velcro flags on the front and back. U.S. Open and the Sr. and Jr. Nationals. Fighters did not even take off the hogus, They just ripped off the blue flag and replaced it with a red one, or visa versa. Fighters just finished and went and sat down with the hogus still on. Made things go much faster.


 
Ah... I did see that.  for some reason I wasn't thinking.  I thought they were saying they went to an ALL neutral hogu... duh... I need to stop spacing out...


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## terryl965 (Dec 9, 2010)

Even with the nuetal ones if you are buying a complete set for your school you still would buy two of every size. So my numbers are right with the actual cost.


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## Daniel Sullivan (Dec 9, 2010)

ATC said:


> Last 2 major tourneys here in the U.S. have been the neutral (all white) with red and blue velcro flags on the front and back. U.S. Open and the Sr. and Jr. Nationals. Fighters did not even take off the hogus, They just ripped off the blue flag and replaced it with a red one, or visa versa. Fighters just finished and went and sat down with the hogus still on. Made things go much faster.


That makes a ton more sense!

Daniel


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## miguksaram (Dec 9, 2010)

Daniel Sullivan said:


> Mine was 650.00 by the time all was said and done. I am aware of the 399.99 set. I generally try to avoid the least expensive when it comes to protective gear, however.
> 
> I shop at e-mudo.com mostly, though I have gotten a number of things through e-bogu as well.
> 
> ...


 
I agree...I was just wondering where you got your gear.


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## LaJust (Dec 9, 2010)

taekwondodo said:


> Dear LaJust Rep,
> I bought a pair of size 3 Red & Blue e-hogu in Feb. 2010.  Now they came out with the neutral hogus.  I also have dropped weight and at the lowest weight for female fighters 108.  How can I go and exchange for the neutral color, and the correct size hogus since my hogus are non-usable for any USAT tournaments.
> 
> An advise would greatly appreciated.



Please check your private messages and I'll get you taken care of


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## miguksaram (Dec 9, 2010)

LaJust Rep,

Can you please answer my earlier questions about life expectancy, repair costs, etc?  Thank you.


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## LaJust (Dec 9, 2010)

terryl965 said:


> Even with the nuetal ones if you are buying a complete set for your school you still would buy two of every size. So my numbers are right with the actual cost.



Terryl, now I see where you were going with your numbers. The thread had been talking about individual purchases of equipment but you are speaking about the cost to gyms on buying a system. Thanks for clarifying for me! 

While I do appreciate your point (I probably sound like a sales person but actually I'm the CIO) we have a number of gyms that have shown that after buying the LaJust training system equipment _(which is designed to be used every day and keep the students engaged)_ their enrollment increased. At least one I know reported a 50% increase (see the video at 



) which translates into a healthy payback for the investment. We have also been looking at third parties that will do payment plans and hope to be able to offer that in the future.

In regards again to the investment, I would like to relate the real life story of a gym that contacted us recently. They wanted to buy our full e-gym system (the complete set of hogus, our touch screen training system and competition receiver) but didn't have the funds. They were looking to raise the money by doing a *"kick-a-thon"* with our training equipment. Basically, the kids would get sponsored as to how many correctly formed kicks they could do in 30 seconds on our system. We worked with them so they could have a loaner system for the weekend and I spent an hour on the phone walking them through how to set it up. _By the end of the weekend they had raised more than the amount they needed to purchase a system_ (I believe they wanted the $5,450 system). The kids and parents are now more excited than before and placed the order with us last week  _PM me if you are a gym owner and would like to get in touch with them about their experience._ 

Jonathan


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## LaJust (Dec 9, 2010)

miguksaram said:


> LaJust Rep,
> 
> Can you please answer my earlier questions about life expectancy, repair costs, etc?  Thank you.



Absolutely. We provide a one year warranty on the equipment. The life expectancy is going to depend on if this is for an individual use or being used constantly at a gym but they are designed for years of use and we have Hogus that have been in use since 2008 with only the front panels being replaced. We stress test Hogu using baseball bats to make sure we are giving them serious punishment!

The front panels sensors (that are being kicked) are the part that is most likely to fail since they are taking the most abuse. In our version 8 and 8.1 hogus we have made these thicker so they will last much longer. However, if they were to fail outside of our warranty period the price is just $30 per panel to replace plus shipping costs.


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## terryl965 (Dec 9, 2010)

Johnathon, I will pm you about some issue we are having and maybe you can help.


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## ATC (Dec 9, 2010)

terryl965 said:


> Even with the nuetal ones if you are buying a complete set for your school you still would buy two of every size. So my numbers are right with the actual cost.


Nope, won't buy them. We just train to hit the target areas with the correct techniques that is all. I really don't see the need to have them for training. I know everyone wants to work with them to see how to score better, but I believe that if you work on your techniques and accuracy you should have no problems scoring.

I use to think that we needed some but after some more thought I have since changed my mind. It is really a simple concept, hit the target with the proper technique and "ding", a point. Normal hogus work well for that kind of training.

Think about it. You can find all the sweet spots you like but if you can't hit it, and with the proper technique, then what does that matter?


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## terryl965 (Dec 9, 2010)

ATC said:


> Nope, won't buy them. We just train to hit the target areas with the correct techniques that is all. I really don't see the need to have them for training. I know everyone wants to work with them to see how to score better, but I believe that if you work on your techniques and accuracy you should have no problems scoring.
> 
> I use to think that we needed some but after some more thought I have since changed my mind. It is really a simple concept, hit the target with the proper technique and "ding", a point. Normal hogus work well for that kind of training.
> 
> Think about it. You can find all the sweet spots you like but if you can't hit it, and with the proper technique, then what does that matter?


 
We do that know but after going and using them I have found it best for students to be able to really understand what it takes to get a point. Correct me if I am wrong but the LaJust also works on power as well as accurancy right and for that they need to know what will and what will not be hard enough to score a point. Maybe I am just getting it confused with some other systems out there.


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## ATC (Dec 9, 2010)

terryl965 said:


> We do that know but after going and using them I have found it best for students to be able to really understand what it takes to get a point. Correct me if I am wrong but the LaJust also works on power as well as accurancy right and for that they need to know what will and what will not be hard enough to score a point. Maybe I am just getting it confused with some other systems out there.


Yes you are correct but no one should be trying to kick lightly. I don't need a e-hogu to teach my students to kick with power.


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## terryl965 (Dec 9, 2010)

ATC said:


> Yes you are correct but no one should be trying to kick lightly. I don't need a e-hogu to teach my students to kick with power.


 
You are right I am just trying to justify why we should be getting them. Damm it is hard to really justify all that money is'nt it?


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## ATC (Dec 9, 2010)

terryl965 said:


> You are right I am just trying to justify why we should be getting them. Damm it is hard to really justify all that money is'nt it?


I think so. Nice to have though. If you have the money and it won't hurt you to get them then I say go for it. But I know we don't have the money for them and after you think about it you really don't need them.


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## ATC (Dec 9, 2010)

Here is the thing. All the E-hogu manufactures need to sell these things to make money. But the only people they can sell to is orgs like USAT or WTF. There really is no other use for them other than a tournament. Why do you think companies like Sony, Samsung, LG, and any other high tech company is not making them? No money in it at all. That is why the prices are so high. I mean if you look at it the system is nothing but a hogu with some pressure sensors on it. Then they add some wireless communication back to the computer. How much does that really cost if you think about it. The WII is basically the same thing. But mass money in that. Everyone can be marketed to for buying a WII. How many people will really buy this e-hogu? Not many. So no big tech company will even think about making them. I am sure they could produce something pretty quickly as good or better than what is out there now. Plus much cheaper also. If there was a mass market for them.

To me the orgs should have paid one of the high tech companies to make these things and then only used them at the World Championships and the Olympics. All other tournaments just keep using judges at 4 corners, even Nationals and Opens.

Companies would have done it too. Think of the advertising they would get for free. Fighters would have a Sony logo on the hogu during a world event. The companies may  have done it just for the advertising. USAT or WTF would have a good product to make the high level comps fair and the company would get world marketing.

OK I am off my soapbox now. Ha ha ha....


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## Truescore East (Dec 11, 2010)

Archtkd said:


> If the Daedo system is "far superior" to LaJaust, why did the WTF -- to the dissapointment of the Korean team-- switch to the LaJust system at the recently concluded Asia Games? For the old timers, is this a VCR V/s BETA type of commercial battle, politics, or real technology difference that make one system superior to the other?


 
I saw this thread and thought that I would join this forum in case there is anyone that wants information about Daedo/truescore. there is so much information out there and alot of it is incorrect. so I figured if anyone had any questions I would be available to answer them.


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## mango.man (Dec 11, 2010)

Truescore East said:


> I saw this thread and thought that I would join this forum in case there is anyone that wants information about Daedo/truescore. there is so much information out there and alot of it is incorrect. so I figured if anyone had any questions I would be available to answer them.



You can start by giving yourself some credibility and letting us know who you are and what your roleis with daedo that makes you an authority.


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## terryl965 (Dec 11, 2010)

mango.man said:


> You can start by giving yourself some credibility and letting us know who you are and what your roleis with daedo that makes you an authority.


 
I second mango.man please tell us who you are and in what capacity you are involved in with true score?


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## Truescore East (Dec 12, 2010)

mango.man said:


> You can start by giving yourself some credibility and letting us know who you are and what your roleis with daedo that makes you an authority.


 My name is Nick Yacobucci and I am the Daedo/Truescore distributor for the Eastern half of the United States. I have been involved now with Truescore for 2 years. Before that I was part of Daedo USA and also Daedo Florida. I have become so heavily involved in the electronics with Truescore that I no longer am involved with the regular gear just the electronics.
you can visit www.truescoreeast.com to see who I am and what my involvement with Daedo/Truescore is.

I would be happy to answer any and all questions about the electronics.


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## terryl965 (Dec 12, 2010)

Hello Nick and I have meet you in Florida with the AAU, can you tell me why itis AAU is not considering the system at this point or are you still in negotiations with them. I really do like the system from what Isaw but really do notknow alot about any upgrades that have been done over the last year or so, please tell us what makes them the best right now in your opinion.


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## Truescore East (Dec 12, 2010)

Daedo/Truescore signed a one year agreement with the AAU that started when we went to Ft. Lauderdale and did their Team Trials for them. But right now it is up in the air with the AAU, we are waiting for them to come to a decision about our agreement. Macho has decided not to renew with the AAU and now the AAU is looking for another sponsor for the big bucks. I believe they are talking to Vision who is trying to bring KP&P into this country. Vision is not WTF approved and neither is the KP&P system, but if they are willing to pay the big bucks AAU will switch from Daedo/Truescore.

Right now the helmets are done and have been used all over, the latest is the senior european championships and the Junior division Canadian and French Open. We also used them in Aruba at the best of the best tournament in November. They are already WTF approved as is the entire system. The gloves will be done shortly.

When you hear things like the Koreans use Lajust that is not totally accurate. This year they switched and used Daedo/Truescore for the Korean Open and the Chinese used us for the Sport Accord games, they wanted to use us for the World Cup, but were forced to use Lajust since when Lajust signed their agreement with the WTF had a clause put in there that says, any event run by the WTF has to be Lajust so they were made to cancel our agreement and use Lajust. We also had an agreement to do the Central American games in Puerto Rico, but had the contract cancelled when PATU made them use Lajust. 

We had 4 different AAU qualifiers set up, but that is all been put on hold for now.


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## terryl965 (Dec 12, 2010)

So Nick is Daedo not trying to work with AAU? I mean they need a sponsor you Daedo seem to be the right choice.


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## Truescore East (Dec 12, 2010)

I wanted to give you some insight into the system, their probably are alot of you out there that has never seen the system work. 

The chest guards run from size 0 thru size 5 and they are the exact size and wieght as a regular chest guard. The chest guards are red and blue and work on both sides. Atransmitter is put in a pouch in the back of the chest guard that is located right at the neck line in the center. a reciever is attached to the computer which recieves the signal from the transmitter. Inside the chestguards on each side of a slim pressure plate are thin wire cables that run continually so their are absolutely no dead spots. Every spot on the chest guard that is red or blue will score, backside scores very well. The feet have rare earth magnets in them on top of the foot and on the bottom of the foot. the frequencies and the magnets are all pantented worldwide. Cell phones and water have absolutely no effect on the system. the sytem will score up to 5 points in one second.
The helmet works exactly the same way as the chest guard. Also we do not eat up batteries, our transmitters have 14 hour batteries in them are rechargable. they only take about an hour to totally recharge.

The ETU, ATU and the OTU have all signed agreements with Daedo/Truescore, just about everywhere but the good old USA and PATU. They are all changing, this coming year their are only 2 tournaments that I know of using Lajust in Europe and that is the German Open and the Bulgarian Open. The Germans have Kwon as thier sponsor so they would have to make a deal with Daedo before they did their tournament for them.

If I have not covered everything, just ask. Also there are some very excellent videos on the Truescore East website. So now all are waiting for is the IOC to say who is doing the Olympics. We feel pretty good, but his is Taekwondo so we are using guarded optimism.

So all of the different problems you hear everyone complaining about with Lajust do not exist with the Truescore system. I was going to attach a copy of a letter submitted to Canadian taekwondo from their observation committee and judges chair, but I can't figure out how to attach it.


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## Truescore East (Dec 12, 2010)

terryl965 said:


> So Nick is Daedo not trying to work with AAU? I mean they need a sponsor you Daedo seem to be the right choice.


 
We totally agree with you, but we will only agree to a performance based relationship. If AAU did not mandate that all qualifiers and AAU tournaments use the system for all ages and that answer was not forthcoming.


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## puunui (Dec 12, 2010)

USAT is committed to LaJust? If people want meaningful change at USAT, then the answer is simple: don't support LaJust. Don't buy their stuff for your dojang. keep all expenses with respect to LaJust equipment as low as possible. Give LaJust as little money as possible so that LaJust thinks twice about sponsoring USAT or giving USAT money in the future. Make the LaJust deal so unprofitable for LaJust that they won't want to renew their agreement with USAT. 

That goes for any vendor that is giving money to USAT.


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