# Thinking about writing a book...



## Makalakumu

I'm thinking about writing a book in order to expand upon the material that I wrote here.  My vision is to do a little more research into the history and practice of the arts that led up to Tang Soo Do so that the reader can understand how it changed.  Then I want to provide strong curricular framework that would take the art of Tang Soo Do and transform it into the well rounded art it came from.  Lastly, I'd like it be seen as a manual for the reader to change their practice if they choose to do so.  

There are some problems with this idea.  One is my rank.  I am not very highly ranked in the yudansha so many readers might think that writing something like this is presumptuous.  Second is the fact that I do not belong to any organization.  There is no governing body that sanctions or protects what I do in my dojang and a lot of people might view this as a lack of credentials.  Thirdly, I'm wondering if there is even a need for such a book out there.  Would people actually use this work to change what they do?  Is there any interest in learning how to think about and use hyung in TSD?  Would a grandmaster pick up this book and say, "hey, this is a great idea!"

What do all of you think?


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## exile

John, just _do_ it. This is exactly the kind of book the KMAs are ready for and are eagerly awaiting (as our pioneering members Stuart A and SJON have shown, I believe). I know your general point of view, and I'd say, you have a ready audience out there.

Some of the very best research in academia is carried out by sharp, thoughtful Assistant Professors and postdocs. So to hell with rankwhat counts is the quality of the evidence and argumentthe proof of the pudding is in the eating, after all, not the string of acronyms after the chef's name!


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## Ian wallace

Good luck, ill look out for it!!


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## terryl965

Like Nike Just do it


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## Makalakumu

I think this is going to be my next project.  Right now, I'm working on publishing my 415,000 word scifi series, but after that, I think a total change of genre would be great.  Anyway, if you saw a book like this, would you buy it?  Why?


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## exile

maunakumu said:


> I think this is going to be my next project.  Right now, I'm working on publishing my 415,000 word scifi series, but after that, I think a total change of genre would be great.  *Anyway, if you saw a book like this, would you buy it?  Why?*



Yes, absolutely. Because the issue of how to connect the core content of a MA with the best teaching strategy to offer that content in a digestible way to students is a difficult, complex and unavoidable problem for any responsible MA instructor, especially one who rejects 'off-the-shelf' curricula for whatever reason. A combat-realistic view of TSD, with emphasis on the SD defensive content of its hyungs, inevitably raises serious pedagogy problems&#8212;how much of this hard-edged content should be taught at what stage? And this is the same problem that other KMAs based on forms face, as well as the senior related arts such as Karate. So what you're talking about has a ready-made market in the pool of dedicated MA instructors trying to figure out how to parcel out the rich content of their respective arts for students at different stages of skill development...


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## Kacey

Would I buy it instantly?  Probably not.  Would I investigate the author's experience and research qualifications, and if I liked them, check it out of the library so I could decide if I wanted to buy it?  Certainly.  If I liked it, then yes, I would buy it - but you have to understand when I say this that I have over 2000 books in my house already, and I'm running out of room!

I would say go for it - even if you write it for yourself, then you've gotten what you want out of it; if people buy it, so much the better.


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## JadecloudAlchemist

If the book is presented well enough then to me I don't worry about the rank. Example look at all the books written by Ashida Kim,Phil Elmore and the likes. They have madeup ranks and low ranks and everything else.

Be truthful about yourself and what you present and people will respect you. There are many legit people who write books and there books are terrible. If you have something that you feel would contribute to others development then by all means write the book. As long as you don't present falsehood.

My father wrote a book of poems. He wrote the book for himself mostly even if he never published it. 

I can see it now:

To Jadecloud,

You were the inspiration of me writing this book hahaha


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## jks9199

Kacey -- there's always room for books!  You've probably got silly stuff like food sitting in your pantries and refrigerator, for example.  What with today's take-out & delivery options, there's really no need for keeping food at home.  And, appropriately stacked, books make great furniture, though you must exercise care when you replace the book you choose to read at any given moment (Dr. Seuss does not work as a replacement for Michener, for example.)   

On a serious note, to Maunakuma -- Go for it.  Worst case -- you've clarified your thinking by putting it down, even if no publisher picks it up.  (And, today, there are lots of self publishing options, like E-books.)  Though I have to ask -- if TSD isn't a well rounded art now, and once was... what happened?  I think that's a question you'll have to answer early on...


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## Makalakumu

jks9199 said:


> On a serious note, to Maunakuma -- Go for it. Worst case -- you've clarified your thinking by putting it down, even if no publisher picks it up. (And, today, there are lots of self publishing options, like E-books.) Though I have to ask -- if TSD isn't a well rounded art now, and once was... what happened? I think that's a question you'll have to answer early on...


 
I think that I am going to do it.  I've got the material, it just needs to be organized.  I'm not sure how long it will be when its done, but I'm guessing it should push 80,000 to 100,000 words.  My intent is to put out a template for curriculum so people can actually start asking the right questions when it comes to teaching hyung and application.  They can modify as they see fit.

As far as TSD being a well rounding, combat ready, art, I'm not sure it ever was.  TSD comes from Shotokan and Shotokan came from an Okinawan art that was combat ready.  A lot of the story I'm going to tell is how the art moved away from those roots.  That will be controversial, but it's a story that needs to be told.  

Lastly, I think another needed aspect of this book is a critical examination of the way things are now.  I want to give the reader a curriculum/educational argument for changing their practice.  It's all about aligning with learning objectives and making sure the peices of the art legitimately teach what is being claimed.


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## bluemtn

It wouldn't hurt anything to go ahead.  Rank and affiliation really wouldn't matter too much-  had an instructor that published a book on the art he taught, and not affiliated with anyone than about a handful of dojangs.  

Would I buy it?  Depends on if it grabs my interest.  Definitely would look into it, and chances are I would.


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## Yossarian

There are very few TSD books available anyway and your idea sounds great. You should definately go for it ive seen similar things done with Karate etc and I would say there would be a market for such a book.


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## IMP

I'm all for it. A book like this would tremendously help me in training simply for understanding Tang Soo Do better. I think people would use it well and resourcefully.


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## hkfuie

I am TKD, not TSD.  But since we share roots, I would love to read your book.  

I have Stuart's book and after reading the history portion at the beginning of the book, I felt that it was worth the investment for that portion alone - and then there's all the rest of it, too!  I would love to read about the history of TSD and how it relates to Shotokan and even precursors to Shotokan.  I think it is very exciting research and very generous of you to share some of what you have come up with.

I hope you do write your book.  I cannot wait to learn more.

I think your approach of teaching the teacher how you organize your curriculum and how you extract info from the hyungs will be something I would really value.

My brain is ok at looking for the applications, but when it comes to organizing all this stuff, YIKES!  

I can tell you have put alot of thought into it.

As far as your rank/organization affiliation is concerned, For me, personally, it does not matter.  You have obviously put alot of thought and research into this.  I think it would be foolish of me to not learn something of value because of rank/organization membership.  If someone wants to judge you on those things (and I am sorry, but they will - it's just how some people are) then they are choosing to limit themselves.  As for me, I don't want to wait 20 years for your book so you can get more rank!


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## MBuzzy

I would buy it instantly....First of all, as Yossarian said, there are so few books out there on Tang Soo Do anyway that any contribution to the library is well worth it.  Particularly if it is in the history or curriculum area.  We have books that give examples and show how to do things and books that tell you what organizations are doing for their standardized curriculum, but none that talk about the actual theory of building a curriculum.  Between that and the convoluded nature of TSD's history, I think the book would be very well received.  

As for your qualifications, most important point is that your research and book is well documented and backed by verifiable facts.  That is always my most important issue for author credential.  Your lack of an organization will actually help this process more than hurt it.  Think about it, if you are in an organization, first, you can't publish anything without permission and most of the profits go back to the organization.  Then, you are very very limited to the organization's version of history, their techniques, and their curriculum.  Last, in an organization, your rank does matter, as an Ee Dan, you would never be permitted to write a book within a large organization.  It is simply the nature of large organizations to only listen and give responsibility to the highest ranking members.  That is just how beurocracy (beurocracy in the organizational/leadership version of the word, not the negative connotation) works.

People would definitely buy something like this.  Especially the others who share your unique situation, those who do not belong to an organization and who are cut off from their original instructor.  Go for it, I'll buy it.

And if you're still not convinced....go look at some of the other works available - I am 100% positive that yours will be better than many of them.


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## Gi1

Cool I'd be interested in hearing how you get on with your research.


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## foggymorning162

Go for it you'll regret it if you don't!



hkfuie said:


> As for me, I don't want to wait 20 years for your book so you can get more rank!


 
 I agree 20 years is a long wait



MBuzzy said:


> As for your qualifications, most important point is that your research and book is well documented and backed by verifiable facts.


 
There are a lot of well written and informative books on a lot of different subjects that the author researched but was not a practitioner of.

As for whether or not I would buy it... I'll be perfectly honest with you. I'm cheap so only if it's in paperback.


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## Makalakumu

How important do you think an MLS citation format would be for this book?  Would you as a reader appreciate this style of research or would you prefer a reading list or maybe a footnote style of research format?  What do you think?


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## jks9199

I personally don't care about the format of the citations/footnotes so much as that they're there.  I want to know what's the writer's own work, versus what came from research -- and where that research was.


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## Brian R. VanCise

*Go for it!*  Having written several books myself and knowing how much fun I have had I would advise you to start writing.  If you need any help just let me know as I can give you quite a few details that can save you some headaches.


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## cdunn

I am inclined to look at things this way: 

If you write the book, the worst that can happen is that you cannot sell it, but you learned something from the research required to write the book. If you do not write the book, the best that can happen is that you will wonder how it would have gone. Which do you want to have happen?


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## MBuzzy

maunakumu said:


> How important do you think an MLS citation format would be for this book?  Would you as a reader appreciate this style of research or would you prefer a reading list or maybe a footnote style of research format?  What do you think?



Whether you use MLA or APA or what style of reference isn't really important to me at least, although I prefer SOME sort of citation....even if it is just the book name, author, and year in a footnote, but it will provide credibility to what you say and more importantly, allow readers to go read the source material for themselves.


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## exile

MLS is OK; I personally prefer the University of Chicago format. It's the one that's common in most of the journals and books I use as sources, and my main text formatting program, LaTeX, is set up to do it automatically. But as others have said, more important than the style is that there is careful and consistent citation in the first place. Far too many books in the MAs include very specific claims that imply reference to either primary or secondary sources, without ever giving those sources. It's very frustrating, particularly given the frequent unreliability of the 'facts' that show up in MA writing. As long as you document your claims with full citations, _any_ format in your book will be the right one, in my book!


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## Montecarlodrag

I don't know what your rank is, but don't worry too much about it.

If you want to write a book, just back everything you write with your sources and your own research/experience, and you'll be fine.

Just define the purpose of the book (Help students, be the bible of MA, impress other Martial Artists, etc.).
I have read books from high ranked guys and they failed to put their knowledge on paper. Too much flowers but very little of use.

Keep it simple, focused and practical. Include enough photos and diagrams. You may even include a CD with videos demonstrating things written in the book.


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## Lynne

If you don't write it, who will?


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## bluemtn

Lynne said:


> If you don't write it, who will?


 

Exactly!  Personally, I think it would be a great help, and now I've thought on it more, I'd buy it.  Just as long as you include your sources and how you came to your conclusions on certain things, it's good.


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## Makalakumu

I'm going to post the completed essay for people to read.  I can see some areas that could be expanded if I were to turn this into a book.  What can you see?  I'm interested in your feedback.



> Hyung Based Curriculum for the Tangsoodoin
> By John Kedrowski
> 
> Introduction
> 
> Tang Soo Do is a popular Korean martial art that has practitioners all around the world. The art has incorporated elements of Chinese, Okinawan and Japanese martial arts in a synthesis that has produced a great art to practice.
> 
> Yet, along its syncretic lineage, Tang Soo Do has lost some things. Important elements that were part of the Japanese, Okinawan, and Chinese roots were left out of the synthesis. The purpose of this essay is not to discuss the history surrounding the subtraction of these elements. The purpose of this essay is to discuss the incorporation of these elements into the practice of Tang Soo Do so that every practitioner can deepen his/her understanding of the art.
> 
> I do not claim to be an expert in the martial arts. I am a student and I am a teacher that is all. The information I am presenting is rooted in my experience in Tang Soo Do, in other martial arts, and in the five years of research that I have put into this topic. Thus, with an open mind, we proceed...
> 
> The Missing Pieces
> 
> Tang Soo Do is like a building constructed from the materials of necessity. We have pieces of arts spackled here and there in order to fill in the cracks and hold the whole thing together. Yet, there are some common elements that most tangsoodoin share. These elements are Kicho (basics), Hyung (forms), Ill Soo Shik (One steps), Ho Sin Shul (self defense), and Deh Ryun (sparring).
> 
> These curricular elements are shared entities throughout many other Korean Martial Arts and they owe their roots to Japanese Shotokan. Kihon, Kata, and Kumite form the backbone of the immediate root art for Tang Soo Do.
> 
> The missing pieces involved all of these elements and it cannot be addressed by attempting to deal with each individually. This is because of the haphazard way in which the art came together. There is a manifold discontinuity in this edifice that needs to be addressed. The lack of a coherent thread that pulls all of this together to achieve ultimate instructional goals has lead to the general disarray in the tangsoodoin's understanding of what it is they are actually practicing, why they practice it, and how they practice.
> 
> My corrective suggestion for dealing with this problem is that we focus on our hyung when building our curriculum.
> 
> Traditionally, these objects were designed in order to transfer an art that could be used to preserve one's life in dangerous situations. As this is a central goal for many people's practice of Tang Soo Do, probing the root arts for clues as to how this was done and innovating new solutions to meet the needs of our current environment is paramount.
> 
> The following is meant to form a philosophic basis for the formation of a hyung-based curriculum. These principles will inform how we practice the traditional curricular elements that most tangsoodoin are familiar with. The end result of all this will convert the ramshackle edifice that we currently deal with into one that is focused upon clear goals and provides a clear vehicle for a student's progression towards those goals.
> 
> Kata Analysis
> 
> Before we can move forward with the construction of our curriculum, we need to learn view our hyung. The moves in our hyung are not the singular sequences we typically see practiced as gicho in most dojangs. The real "moves" are crushing strikes, breaking locks, bruising throws and takedowns, and paralyzing nerve strikes.
> 
> If this is the case, how does one view the moves in the hyung in order to "see" their real nature?
> 
> The answer to this question starts with Itosu Sensei, the man who is largely responsible for the popularization of Kara-te worldwide. If you look at modern Kara-te, the kihon, kata, and kumite pattern is ubiquitously shared amongst many styles. They basically follow the model that Itosu Sensei created for Imperial Japan's Ministry of Education. The line drills of basic techniques, sanitized kata, and a limited form of sparring were all created to be practiced safely by children in school.
> 
> Personally, I think that one of the reasons that Modern Karate is so attractive to parents and kids is because this is what Itosu's intended to create. As a teacher, I think that he had an intuitive understanding of development so that he could really go about designing something that would be appropriate for children. Kara-te was intentionally watered down and made safe and this is what was passed on to most of us originally.
> 
> Yet, Itosu left us clues so that adults who knew the key could revert the kata back into the deadly art that it once was. One of the keys that he specifically states is the way we need to look at moves in the kata. There are three qualitative statements and three rules relating directly to function that we need to keep in mind when reading kata.
> 
> Qualitative Statements
> 
> 1. Every move has two parts, intermediate and end. In general, the intermediate positions are defensive. In general, the end positions are offensive.
> 
> 2. Applications are no more then three moves and every sequence starts and ends on the same move.
> 
> 3. All punches can be moved to the head level. Punching to the middle is less dangerous then to the head.
> 
> These statements make a marked distinction between how many karateka view moves in their kata. In other styles of karate, an entire move may be the traditional "low block" we see marched up and down the floor in many dojos. What Itosu is telling us, however, is that what looks like a single move actually has layers. You need to pay attention to the entire movement.
> 
> The second statement tells us profound things about how to read kata. The second rule gives us an idea as to how we should be looking at the structure of kata application. This is very important because kata are generally viewed as textbooks. This rule tells us how long the sentences are and how they are punctuated.
> 
> Lastly, the third statement indicates that certain moves were changed in order to make kata safer. Changing the location of a strike in order to cause more damage is something that we need to consider when pondering a kata's applications.
> 
> Itosu also gave us three rules regarding the functional purpose of each kata move.
> 
> Every move in the kata has a threefold purpose.
> 
> 1. Direct Applications
> 2. Teaching Principles
> 3. Physical Fitness
> 
> Although it may seem that some kata moves have no purpose or may only fit one or two of the above, this in no way reflects what Itosu intended. Itosu specifically armed us with the qualitative statements so that we would have insight into the threefold purpose of the kata moves. We just need to work harder if we don't yet understand.
> 
> Application
> 
> Now that we have laid down a general framework in which to view hyung, we are at the point where we can begin to talk about using hyung. There are some basic terms that need to be clarified before we continue. These terms describe the nuts and bolts of hyung application.
> 
> Bunkai - analysis/application - this is what the defender is doing in the hyung.
> 
> Oyo - analysis/application - This is what the attacker is doing in the hyung.
> 
> Henka - variation - this term refers to variations in bunkai and oyo.
> 
> Oku-den - hidden - this term refers to secrets or secret teachings.
> 
> As far as the way a hyung is constructed, there are two basic parts, bunkai and oyo. Bunkai is easier to see then oyo because this is what the person performing the hyung is typically doing with the movements of the hyung. However, if one remembers that bunkai is the reaction to oyo then you can see what the oyo part of the hyung.
> 
> Henka describes variations in bunkai and oyo from what the kata is directly showing. If oyo calls for a kick and the bunkai is a defense for that kick, henka for the oyo could be to switch that kick to another kind of kick. Henka is a very deep aspect of a hyung because it relies on the principles that are being illustrated by a hyung. Typically, a student should not engage in henka until they have achieved some skill in the regular applications for the hyung.
> 
> Oku-den are moves that are not shown in the hyung. They typically are secret moves that a teacher would show when a student reached a certain level. Oku-den techniques can be found in all kinds of sequences. This essay does not deal with the Oku-den parts of kata. It is my personal belief that this aspect of hyung will not be particularly helpful to the tangsoodoin. The disconnect between the creator of the hyung, that lineage, and the syncreticism involved in the creation of our art, presents too wide of a gap for that information to cross.
> 
> This does not mean that it wouldn't be a valid area of research. I would advise caution, however. The presence of oku-den can turn a hyung into an inkblot if the researcher is not extremely careful when they examine the roots and a hyung creator's intentions as well as the teaching lineage.
> 
> Layers in Application
> 
> Many people have incorrectly interpreted kara-te (and by default Tang Soo Do) to be strictly a striking art. This is plainly not true. A cursory examination of the hyung shows a multitude of techniques that directly show some kind of grabbing technique.
> 
> The truth of the matter is that the hyung in our syllabus were designed as complete systems for life protection. These systems did not just deal with defending and delivering strikes, because in many self-defense situations, striking isn't the best response.
> 
> The hyung contain many different kinds of tools and this has wide ranging import on how one would structure their curriculum.
> 
> In order to understand the tools that are contained in hyung, one has to understand the hierarchy in which these tools are organized. This hierarchy arose out of the necessity to differentiate and compartmentalize various techniques so that they could be passed on easier.
> 
> There are three layers of understanding in our hyung.
> 
> 1. Atemi - striking - this layer of understanding is the most basic. This layer is concerned with blocking and countering with hand techniques or foot techniques. This layer of understanding makes full use of strike points and other anatomical knowledge.
> 
> 2. Tuite - joint locking/projection - this layer of understanding is more complex because it incorporates aspects of Atemi and combines them with the grappling component that is extant in all kara-te based systems. Tuite techniques include joint locks, take downs, throws, pins, and traps. As one can see, this layer of understanding is very complex and it takes a long time to learn correctly.
> 
> 3. Kyusho - life protection - in the United States and around the world, this has commonly been misinterpreted as the use of strike points. However, as one can see, the use of strike points is part and parcel of Atemi. The real meaning of kyusho is more ephemeral and far deeper the just the use of strike points in atemi. Kyusho is about life protection. These are techniques that incorporate every tool in the karateka's syllabus for the sole purpose of protecting one's life. Kyusho incorporates atemi and tuite into the brutal and efficient combinations that would need in order to end a serious conflict quickly. Many of kara-te's deepest techniques are found at this level.
> 
> It should be noted the traditional practice of Kara-te assumed that the practitioner had some skill in wrestling. In Okinawa, where many of the sensei who created the forms lived, the native wrestling art was called Tegumi. This art was ubiquitous in the island chain with nearly all youth taking part in this national pastime.
> 
> Kara-te techniques are markedly different then those practiced in Tegumi. It is assumed that the karateka will remain on his feet while fighting and has the foreknowledge of wrestling in order to do so. This is not to say that many kara-te techniques cannot be performed from the ground, it just means that the focus is on remaining on one's feet.
> 
> With that being said, a Modern Kara-te syllabus should contain basic instruction in wrestling. Most practitioners are not engaged in wrestling from an early age and need the instruction in order to fully be engaged in the original context that the hyung were created.
> 
> Basic Kata Principles
> 
> Closely aligned with the layers of understanding in kata are the basic kata principles. In a hyung-based curriculum, these principles are taught concurrently with the differing layers of understanding. The connection is not unilateral, however. Each principle can apply to all three levels of understanding.
> 
> These basic principles are meant to help one understand the movements in the kata. By viewing the movements through these lenses, one is teaching oneself how to properly see different techniques in the kata.
> 
> 1. Strikes are blocks and blocks are strikes. In order to gain a full understanding of how to perform atemi shown in kata, one must understand that many movements that look like "blocks" or "strikes" are, in fact, blocks and strikes. This principle is often misinterpreted to mean that blocks should be performed in order to strike what they are blocking. While not wholly incorrect, this is just one aspect of this axiom. Often, what looks like a block is a legitimate strike to a vulnerable target of the opponents body.
> 
> 2. Strike to grab and grab to strike. This principle gives the karateka information on how to perform some atemi techniques as well as tuite techniques. Setting up tuite techniques with strikes and grabbing an opponent to strike them are ubiquitous throughout the karate syllabus of kata.
> 
> Related to this principle is the concept of hiki-te or retracting hand. In kata, the withdrawing hand is always taking some part of the opponent's body with it. This is very insightful because it will help a student understand the full depth of tuite within our kata.
> 
> 3. Instinctual movement. In Korean, this is known as Mushin or fighting spirit/mind. This is the deepest level of principle in the tangsoodoin's hyung. The practice of every technique in a hyung can help a student develop mushin.
> 
> Where the other two principles are more exoteric in nature, dealing with the functional aspects of application, mushin is more esoteric. This is a mindset that you develop after years of constant drilling and practice and performing hyung. The tangsoodoin should attempt to develop mushin every time they perform a hyung.
> 
> The development of mushin is an integral part of the development of kyusho.
> 
> Timing
> 
> The final area of hyung analysis that I will exposit in this essay is on the subject of timing. All hyung make use of different levels of timing. This differentiation leads to a number of interpretations for bunkai and oyo for every move in a hyung.
> 
> When the tangsoodoin looks at the movements in the hyung, they should understand that the bunkai and oyo change to meet the needs demanded by timing.
> 
> So, what is timing? Timing is when oyo and bunkai occur. Sometimes one is before the other. Sometimes they occur at the same time. It depends on which reference frame you are choosing when you read the hyung.
> 
> The three levels of timing are as follows...
> 
> 1. Go no sen - this level of timing happens when bunkai immediately follows oyo.
> 
> 2. Sen - this level of timing happens when bunkai and oyo happen at the same time.
> 
> 3. Sen no sen - this level of timing happens when bunkai precedes oyo.
> 
> The levels of timing are taught in the same hierarchy that other hyung principles are taught. However, all three levels of timing flow equally in each aspect of the hyung.
> 
> Guidelines for using kata in curriculum
> 
> There needs to be a formalized way of teaching kata in order to use it effectively as self defense.  One must practice a move repeatedly in order to improve the technique and make it automatic.  One must learn how to apply this automatic technique in a random situation correctly.  One must learn to adapt so they can change to other things when something doesn't work.  There are training methods for all of these things.
> 
> An example of a formalized system for learning kata is the following...
> 
> a.  The first thing a teacher must teach is a set of basics that corresponds to each kata.  One that will allow a student to see and perform certain techniques therein and improve things like physical conditioning, balance, and efficiency of movement.  Stances, transitions, punches, kicks, joint locks, throws, etc are all part of certain katas.  This would be akin to throwing and catching a ball, swinging a bat, and running and sliding in baseball.
> 
> b.  One learns the kata, memorizing the moves and details, and is able to perform it.
> 
> c.  Traditional applications should be used as an example to teach anatomical knowledge and application mechanics...yet this information should be open ended.  The student should eventually begin to "play" with the moves under the tutelage of the instructor, who gives insights into their multiple meanings.  The teacher does not spoon-feed alternative applications, but rather gives clues and hints so that the student learns how to interpret the movements for themselves.  The goal is for the student to learn the possibilities of each technique and understand their situational nature from a multifaceted point of view.
> 
> d.  The true nature of kata is that they are sets of drills strung together by the creator so they can easily remember/transport/transfer practical knowledge regarding self-defense techniques.  It is important for a student to eventually learn these because they provide a basis for understanding.  Kata are not limited to these though (and I know many people who would disagree with that).  Every student is different.  They have different bodies and things work differently.  The student must develop a set of drills that work with their body types...ones that they can practice repeatedly and relentlessly.
> 
> e.  The student must learn how to apply in a "live" situation.  Drills only take a student so far and eventually the student must transcend them.  Application should "flow" from a student without thought and without hesitation and with no regard for "proper" context in the sense that one "waits" for certain things to happen.  Drilled techniques need to be modified "on the fly" and altered to fit the situation at hand.  This is a process of controlling the rules in sparring, randori, grappling and gradually removing them...but not removing so many that the training becomes overly dangerous.
> 
> There are many other ways of using kata and each will deliver certain results.  However, if one believes that kata are a central part of an art and that they are useful for self-defense, a system that resembles what is outline above is needed in order to use them most effectively.
> 
> Guidelines for using hyung in a Tang Soo Do Curriculum
> 
> I am writing this next section, not as a criticism of the average tangsoodoin's curriculum, but as a road map for evolution. This knowledge represents a change of environment in which the tangsoodoin can adapt if they choose.
> 
> Traditionally, the Tang Soo Do curriculum contains the following elements. Kicho (basics), hyung (forms), Ill Soo Shik (one steps), Ho Sin Shul (self defense), Deh Ryun (sparring), and Kyok Pa (breaking). These elements are arranged differently depending on teacher and organization, but are, for the most part, ubiquitous across the Tang Soo Do spectrum.
> 
> As one learns more about hyung, taking into account the material I've written above, and/or finding out even more then what I've written, this will demand changes if one's wish is to incorporate this material. This is because the techniques and combinations used in the forms are far more comprehensive then what the average tangsoodoin practices.
> 
> With that being said, rather then throwing the baby out with the bathwater, I'm going to use the general categories for this thesis in order to continue the common thread that all tangsoodoin share. It is my opinion that in a hyung based curriculum, the following elements should look like this...
> 
> 1. Kicho - Basics should be designed so that they introduce a student to the real techniques in a form. These techniques should be functional, as in they should be exactly what you would do in a violent altercation. Techniques should be practiced so that you consistently practice with a partner and that you develop real focus, balance and power. Impact training, whether on pads and/or a makiwara should be the fundamental way striking basics should be practiced. Tuite and nage techniques should also be practiced with a partner and should include full ukemi and tapping.
> 
> Finally, basic techniques should be limited to what is actually found in the forms. This does not mean that should rigidly adhere to the oyo and bunkai found in the particular form being practiced by the student. A variety of techniques that fit the spirit of the oyo bunkai in the form should be explored so that tangsoodoin becomes better rounded.
> 
> 2. Hyung. In most Korean systems, a 10-gup-belt system is used in order to designate a students skill level. In a hyung-based curriculum, the intense focus and analysis upon each form demands that only one hyung be taught for each rank. This is vital because it gives the student time to really focus on what they are learning and analyze the hyung to its fullest potential.
> 
> As far as how a hyung should be taught, this will vary as a student increases in skill level and understanding of the hyung. The teaching the hyung should correspond to the way that various kicho techniques are introduced. Beginning students should learn predominantly striking techniques with some tuite and nage techniques thrown in so that they can learn how to fall and tap properly. As a student advances, this continuum will flip to a point where few new striking techniques will be introduced and mostly tuite and nage techniques are being practiced.
> 
> All of this will inform how a teacher teaches a hyung. At the beginning stages, the striking elements are emphasized, but as the student progresses, more tuite and nage will be introduced. At some point, the teacher should make time for students to examine earlier kata for the advanced concepts found in early forms.
> 
> The actual teaching the hyung should include a major focus on stance and technique. However, all criticism of stance and technique should somehow be tied to how that technique is actually applied against an opponent. Criticism will vary from student to student depending on their level of understanding of hyung layers.
> 
> Finally, a student should learn the entire hyung immediately so that they have time to practice the hyung and make the movements instinctual by the next time they test. This will also provide them with ample time to analyze the hyung's techniques.
> 
> 3. Ill Soo Shik. One-steps should come directly from applications in the hyung. The teacher should construct a series of required one-steps that utilize the differing layers of understanding in regards to hyung technique. Beginning student one steps should include mostly strikes. As a student advances, more tuite and nage should be included. The teacher needs to make a concerted effort to show the various principles each hyung is attempting to teach.
> 
> The students should also be encouraged to figure out their own one-steps. I would recommend that the student should be required to produce 2-5 one-steps per form. This is done in order to provide the tangsoodoin an opportunity to hone their hyung analysis skills.
> 
> Finally, one-steps should be drilled continuously so that they are smooth and effortless. The teacher should provide ample opportunity for this to take place. This, however, limits the amount of one-steps a student can practice. A student should learn no more then 40 one-steps before chodan.
> 
> 4. Ho Sin Shul. Where one-steps provide a student the opportunity to analyze the hyung, ho sin shul should provide a student with the opportunity to test one's skill in a more controlled environment the sparring. The teacher should use ho sin shul to introduce concepts like random attacks and varying degrees of resistance in order to move the practice the hyung's applications beyond the academic one steps and into something that has more basis in reality. Finally, a full range of attacks should be explored with ho sin shul. Pushes, pulls and strikes should be defended against with equal time being split between them.
> 
> 5. Deh Ryun. Sparring exercises should flow directly from ho sin shul. The instructor should carefully remove rules and regulations until a freer flowing and randomized drill is conceived. The student as deemed by the instructor should wear various forms of protective equipment. All levels of distance should be explored in sparring. Striking distances, clinching, randori, and wrestling should be explored.
> 
> As part of deh ryun, a newaza (wrestling) curriculum should be introduced for students. This aspect need not be comprehensive as the study of wrestling runs counter to the spirit of hyung application. However, as mentioned above, traditionally, the study of karate assumed some knowledge of grappling. This gap needs to be filled in a well-rounded Tang Soo Do curriculum.
> 
> Newaza concepts such as balance, position, escapes, pins and submissions should be taught. Striking on the ground should also be taught as many hyung specifically show how to do this. This, however, should be expanded to specifically include all wrestling positions.
> 
> 6. Kyok Pa. Breaking various materials should be explored in order to test a students power and conditioning. This aspect of practice should specifically focus on strikes practiced in hyungs.
> 
> The following section will give an example of what this curriculum could look like. The above guidelines are suggestions for changes and the finished product could take many forms.


----------



## Makalakumu

Well, I'm going to go for it.  I've got a pretty good outline in my head and I'll get that down on paper in the next couple of days.  Then I'll put together some resources and start writing.  I'll update some things on this thread and let people know about any really cool ideas I have.


----------



## Makalakumu

This is a list of TSD curriculum as I know it.  I've rearranged it so that it looks at the totality of what a student would learn without dividing it by rank.  This is what I'll use for the book because we are talking about the big picture in regards to Tang Soo Do.  This list presents what the system teaches in totality.

Check it out and comment.



> The Art of Tangsoodo
> Full Curriculum List
> 
> Kicho - Basics
> 
> Basic Stances - Jaseh
> 
> Front stance _____
> Horse stance _____
> Back stance  _____
> Open stance _____
> Fighting stance _____
> 90 degree stance _____
> Cross legged stance _____
> Short stance _____
> Crane Stance _____
> Low Stance _____
> 
> Hand Techniques  Soo gi
> 
> Basic punches _____
> Palm strike _____
> Knife hand _____
> Back fist _____
> Hammer fist _____
> Fore arm strike _____
> 1-8 basic TSD blocks _____
> Spear hand_____
> Ridge hand _____
> Elbow strikes _____
> Leopard palm _____
> Spinning strike _____
> One finger strike_____
> Wrist strike _____
> Short rib punch_____
> Soft fist ____
> One knuckle strike _____
> Basic Hubbad (open hand, fist, elbow) _____
> 
> Foot Techniques  Jok gi
> 
> Front kick _____
> Inside outside kick _____
> Outside inside kick _____
> Side kick _____
> Roundhouse kick _____
> Hook kick _____
> Stomp kick _____
> Knee kick _____
> 45 degree groin kick _____
> Push Kick _____
> Low sweeping block kick_____
> Low instep kick _____
> Low jamming kick _____
> Double kicking _____
> Spinning kicks _____
> Jumping kicks _____
> Jumping with a fake kicks _____
> Sliding up kicks _____
> Jumping spinning kicks _____
> Same side punch kick _____
> Iron Broom sweeps _____
> 
> Joint Locks - Tuite
> 
> Wrist bending locks _____
> Gooseneck _____
> Finger lock _____
> Multiple finger lock _____
> Figure four ankle lock _____
> Toehold _____
> Knee bar _____
> Heel hook _____
> Basic Armbar _____
> Seated Armbar _____
> Hammer lock _____
> Reverse hammer lock _____
> Straight arm lock (figure four) _____
> Neck Breaking _____
> Scarf Holds _____
> Rear Naked Choke _____
> Leg Triangle Choke _____
> Side Choke _____
> Guillotine Choke _____
> Joint lock flow _____
> Fluid Lock application _____
> 
> Throwing and sweeping - Nage
> 
> Side fall _____
> Back fall _____
> Front fall _____
> Roll fall _____
> Advanced foot sweep_____
> Inner leg reap _____
> Outer leg reap _____
> Scoop throw _____
> Sickle foot sweep _____
> Four corner throw _____
> Major hip throw _____
> Shoulder hip throw _____
> Shoulder throw _____
> Rice bale throw _____
> Single Leg takedown _____
> Double Leg takedown _____
> Mountain drop throw _____
> Foot circle throw _____
> Leg scissor takedown _____
> Sweeping hip throw _____
> 
> Strike Points - Kyusho
> 
> Gall bladder 20 _____
> Spleen 21 _____
> Bladder Strike _____
> Stomach 9 _____
> Stomach 5 _____
> Large Intestine 18 _____
> Lung 8 _____
> Heart 6 _____
> Stomach Plexus _____
> Gall Bladder 24 ____
> Lung Plexus ____
> Triple Warmer 11 ____
> Governor Vessel 26 ____
> Triple Warmer 17 ____
> Gall Bladder 31 ____
> Pericardium 6 ____
> Clavicle Notch ____
> Liver 12 ____
> Spleen 12 ____
> Lung 1 ____
> Lung 2 ____
> Gall Bladder Plexus ____
> Kidney 1____
> Pericardium 8 ____
> Bladder 41 ____
> 
> Hyung - Forms
> 
> Gi Cho Hyung Ill Boo _____
> Gi Cho Hyung Ee Boo  _____
> Gi Cho Hyung Sam Boo _____
> Pyung Ahn Cho Dan _____
> Pyung Ahn Ee Dan _____
> Pyung Ahn Sam Dan _____
> Pyung Ahn Sa Dan _____
> Pyung Ahn O Dan _____
> Bassai Dai _____
> Bassai Sho _____
> Creative Hyung _____
> Nai Han Chi Cho Dan _____
> Nai Han Chi Ee Dan _____
> Nai Han Chi Sam Dan _____
> Chinto _____
> Rohai _____
> Kusanku _____
> Gojushiho _____
> 
> Ee An Sol Cha Gi  Kicking Forms
> 
> Ill Bon _____
> Ee Bon _____
> Sam Bon _____
> Sa Bon _____
> O Bon _____
> Yuk Bon _____
> Chil Bon _____
> Pal Bon _____
> Cu Bon _____
> 
> Ill Soo Shik
> 
> 1-6 Required Bunkai _____
> 6 Creative Bunkai _____
> 6-12 Required Bunkai _____
> 6 Creative Bunkai _____
> 13-22 Required Bunkai _____
> 12 Creative Bunkai _____
> 
> Ho Sin Shul  Self Defense
> 
> Demonstration of defense against random hand techniques _____
> Demonstration of defense against random foot techniques _____
> Demonstration of defense against random grabs _____
> Demonstration of defense against random grab/strikes _____
> Demonstration of defense against random hand or foot technique _____
> Defense against any random technique _____
> Defense against two person attacks _____
> Defense against weapons _____
> 
> Deh Ryun  Sparring
> 
> Demonstration of Block/Counter in Sparring Situation _____
> Demonstration of one on one sparring _____
> Demonstration of sparring someone of equal rank _____
> Demonstration of sparring someone of higher rank _____
> Demonstration of Pi  Hagi in sparring situation _____
> Demonstration of sparring someone of lower rank _____
> Demonstration of sparring someone of same rank _____
> Demonstration of sparring someone of higher rank _____
> Demonstration of Randori _____
> Demonstration of submission grappling _____
> Demonstration of one up, one down sparring _____
> Instinctual posture _____
> Kicks from the Ground _____
> Sweeps from the Ground _____
> Getting back up _____
> Demonstration of Stop Hit in Deh Ryun _____
> Demonstration of entering and trapping _____
> Demonstration of Sparring against lower ranks _____
> Demonstration of Sparring against same rank _____
> Demonstration of sparring against higher rank _____
> Demonstration of open technique sparring _____
> Da Soo in Deh Ryun _____
> Sparring with Weapons _____
> Sparring Multiple People with Weapons _____
> 
> Kyok Pa  Breaking
> 
> Knowledge of how to hold a board _____
> Knowledge of how to break a board _____
> Two hands in succession _____
> Two feet in succession _____
> One hand and One Foot technique in combination _____
> One Patio Tile ____
> Two Patio Tiles _____
> Series of Three consecutive hand strikes _____
> Series of Two consecutive Kicks _____
> Yuk Jin Kun Kyuk _____
> Speed Break _____
> Ee An Sol Cha Gi Cu Bon (4 stations 2 boards each) _____
> 
> Newaza  Grappling
> 
> Basic positions _____
> Escapes from basic positions _____
> Transitions from basic positions _____
> Tuite from the ground _____
> Strikes on the ground _____
> The Eight Hold downs _____
> Shooting and sprawling _____
> Pressure points on the ground _____
> Tension and relaxation on the ground _____
> Fluid and instinctual movement _____
> 
> Weapons
> 
> Sticks
> 
> Heaven Six Pattern _____
> Standard Six Pattern _____
> Earth Six Pattern _____
> Strikes 1-12 and defenses _____
> Hand Switches _____
> Male and female triangle footwork _____
> Unig Zyow Hyung _____
> Kun Tao _____
> Carenza _____
> Disarms _____
> 
> Knife
> 
> Five Terrors_____
> Palm Stick Set _____
> Ice Pick Set_____
> Forward Grip Set _____
> Disarms _____
> Knife Tapping _____
> 
> 
> Cane
> 
> Parts of Cane and uses _____
> Cane form _____
> Applications to the form _____
> 
> Staff
> 
> Holding the staff _____
> Staff Form _____
> Applications to the forms _____
> 
> Nunchaku
> 
> Holding the Flail _____
> Kobu Nunchaku _____
> Applications to the form _____
> 
> Breathing Exercises
> 
> Basic Belly Breathing _____
> Moo Pal Dan Kun (1-4) _____
> Moo Pal Dan Kun (4-8) _____
> Internal Knowledge of Moo Pal Dan Kun _____
> Standing on Stakes _____
> Grand Circulation _____
> 
> Culture and Terminology
> 
> Counting to ten in Chinese and Korean _____
> Commands in Class _____
> Knowledge of the three theories of joint locking _____
> Knowledge of Kusuri and Kusushi _____
> Knowledge of the use of hyung _____
> Knowledge of Gi Cho History _____
> Knowledge of Meridian Theory _____
> Knowledge of Oyo, Bunkai, and Henka _____
> Knowledge of Atemi, Tuite, and Kyusho _____
> Knowledge of intermediate and end positions in hyung _____
> Knowledge of the meaning of Pyung Ahn _____
> Knowledge of Cycle of Creation and Destruction _____
> Knowledge of Kappo _____
> Knowledge of Meridian elements _____
> Knowledge of Diurnal Cycle _____
> Knowledge of Yin (soft) and Yang (hard) in striking _____
> Knowledge of basic first aid _____
> Knowledge of laws concerning the use of force _____
> Knowledge of other martial arts _____
> 
> Martial Arts Research
> 
> Knowledge of the history of Korea _____
> Knowledge of the history of Tang Soo Do_____
> Knowledge of the History of Okinawa _____
> Knowledge of the History of Kara-te _____
> Knowledge of Dao of Jeet Kune Do by Bruce Lee_____
> Knowledge of The Five Rings by Myamoto Musashi_____


----------



## Makalakumu

Here is a sample outline of what I would write...



> The Lost Art of Tang Soo Do
> A guide for the teaching of Bunkai
> Outline
> 
> 1.	Introduction
> a.	Authors bio
> b.	My martial arts CV
> c.	The Master Teacher  my background in education
> d.	Thesis  Tang Soo Do contains an effective system of self-defense within its hyungs.  The way that it is currently taught does not access this information.  This book will present an educational curriculum that will teach students how to use the hyung they practice.
> 2.	A brief history of Tang Soo Do
> a.	Syncreticism and the transformation of Karate
> b.	An examination of the transformation of karate in my direct lineage.
> i.	Daniel Knoll  my teacher
> ii.	Master Nelson and Master Seiberlich  Old school KMA
> iii.	Hwang Kee  Learning from books, a grandmaster in reverse
> iv.	Gichin Funakoshi  Shotokan
> v.	Ankoh Itosu  Karate for everyone
> vi.	Matsumura Soken  What karate used to be
> 3.	The origin of Tang Soo Dos curriculum
> a.	A serious look at Hwang Kees training
> b.	Tang Soo Do is Shotokan with more kicks.
> c.	The origin of Ho Sin Shul
> d.	The evolution of Soo Bahk Do
> 4.	A critical examination of Tang Soo Dos curriculum
> a.	What are the stated objectives of Tang Soo Do?
> b.	A description of Kicho, Hyung, Ill Soo Shik, Ho Sin Shul and Deh Ryun
> c.	The critical disconnections  the elements purpose and practice do not connect.
> d.	The result  Student learn each element separately.  There is no reinforcement of objectives.  The arts overall effectiveness in meeting its objectives is retarded.
> 5.	Unscrambling Tang Soo Do
> a.	Where do we go from here?
> b.	What is actually in the hyung?
> c.	The science of application.
> d.	A new approach to basics.
> e.	The role and types of sparring.
> f.	The alignment of practice and objectives.
> 6.	The Found Art of Tang Soo Do
> a.	A restructured curriculum aligned with objectives.
> b.	A description of basics.
> c.	Reading the Hyung.
> d.	Drills  the new ill soo shik and ho sin shul.
> e.	Sparring  making the drills come alive by providing varying degrees of resistance.
> 7.	Tang Soo Do
> a.	A full curriclum list
> b.	Adult requirements
> c.	Children requirements
> d.	The new yudansha  Becoming an expert on what you know.
> 8.	Teaching Manuals
> a.	White Belt
> b.	Green Belt
> c.	Red Belt
> d.	Black Belt



Do you think this material is too hot or too political?  Maybe I should skip a lot of the history and focus on the manual portion?


----------



## hkfuie

2. Applications are no more then three moves and every sequence starts and ends on the same move.

Can I ask what you mean by this?  I have been trying to figure it out since I read it a few days ago...

Every sequence starts and ends on the same move?  Does that mean the sequence is within what we would teach as one move...like within what we would call "low block?"


----------



## Makalakumu

hkfuie said:


> 2. Applications are no more then three moves and every sequence starts and ends on the same move.
> 
> Can I ask what you mean by this?  I have been trying to figure it out since I read it a few days ago...
> 
> Every sequence starts and ends on the same move?  Does that mean the sequence is within what we would teach as one move...like within what we would call "low block?"



Sometimes, what we would call one "move" in a form is actually an entire self defense sequence.  What we call "low block" is what I have termed as a complex technique.  A complex technique is a movement that is composed of several simple techniques.  Simple technique are what I teach as basics.  They can be a punch, a parry, a joint lock, a throw, a grab, or a release.

As far as "sequences starting and ending on the same move" goes, that is a guideline for reading the syntax in a form.  Complex techniques are never representative of one response.  They always take on many forms.  Also, no sequence in a form should ever be "read" more then two or three complex techniques.

Does this make any sense?  When I write it up, I'll try and include some pictures and diagrams.


----------



## MBuzzy

John,

I'm curious how much of the Korean influence you intend to include.  I know that we've had many discussions regarding the usage of Korean terminology, culture, and history, but I notice that you use primarily Japanese terminology.  How much of the Korean influence in terms of terminology do you intend to include?  (this coming from someone who is very interested in the Korean aspect of the art and who has never studied any Japanese system)


----------



## Makalakumu

I'm going to write the book entirely in English.  I am not familiar enough with kanji or hangul to attempt to write in those languages and I've learned that the Romanized versions of the words leave much to be desired.  The only exception will be with the name of a form...although I'll include the translations because that is important.

With that being said, there are some translations that don't really seem to capture the essence of the technique or form.  This has proven difficult.


----------



## terryl965

So how is the book writing going these days.


----------



## Makalakumu

I'm just gathering sources and organizing information.  I posted an outline of the book in this thread for comment.  Check it out!


----------



## terryl965

On your strike points where are the vital ones like the thoart, eyes floaring ribs, knee's temple and so forth, sorry did not see them. I believe this would be an point of interest to the readers.


----------



## Makalakumu

terryl965 said:


> On your strike points where are the vital ones like the thoart, eyes floaring ribs, knee's temple and so forth, sorry did not see them. I believe this would be an point of interest to the readers.


 
That is one of the difficulties I'm having.  All of them are there, but they are referenced with TCM points.  Rather then teach the reader how to "read" the points, I'm just going to refer to parts of the anatomy.

I want to make this thing go straight to the point and I don't want to spend a lot of time explaining terminology if I don't have to.


----------



## MBuzzy

maunakumu said:


> That is one of the difficulties I'm having.  All of them are there, but they are referenced with TCM points.  Rather then teach the reader how to "read" the points, I'm just going to refer to parts of the anatomy.
> 
> I want to make this thing go straight to the point and I don't want to spend a lot of time explaining terminology if I don't have to.



It seems like between the striking points and the "Meridian theory" the ideas of pressure points and vulnerable target areas should be sufficiently covered.  I've found much use in the relation of anatomy to Martial Arts as a "Force Multiplier" to techniues (e.g. a strike to the wrist is effective, but if you hit the pressure point also, it is exponentially more effective).


----------



## MBuzzy

maunakumu said:


> I'm going to write the book entirely in English.  I am not familiar enough with kanji or hangul to attempt to write in those languages and I've learned that the Romanized versions of the words leave much to be desired.  The only exception will be with the name of a form...although I'll include the translations because that is important.
> 
> With that being said, there are some translations that don't really seem to capture the essence of the technique or form.  This has proven difficult.



What about the Japanese terminology?  such as Bunkai, kusuri, etc?



If you are interested or would like to add an appendix or something along those lines, I would be more than happy to offer translation and writing services.  I've been on a quest to do some indepth research into the translations and words that we use - such as the eight key concepts.  Our translations have come a long way from the original Chinese characters (hanja/hanmun) and hangul into our english translations.

My big project now is creating an exhaustive terminology list which includes English, Romanized Korean, Hangul, and Hanja/Hanmun for everything that I can find.  I currently have 408 Tang Soo Do/Soo Bahk Do related terms and 70 Haidong Gumdo specific terms.  I'm still working on some of the Hangul for the Gumdo terms and I have a lot of Hanja/Hanmun to put in.  But you're welcome to it if you would like.  I have an ulterior motive just in seeing the Korean culture included!


----------



## Makalakumu

Interesting.  Let me think about it.  What are you so keen to have the Korean culture included?  I'm curious...


----------



## MBuzzy

maunakumu said:


> Interesting.  Let me think about it.  What are you so keen to have the Korean culture included?  I'm curious...



As I say at work..."Which answer do you want?"  You can have the "official" answer or the truth.

Official answer:  The Korean culture is an essential part of Tang Soo Do and should be included in any reference regarding the art.  The terminology and Korean culture pays tribute to the history and creation of the art.

Truth (My answer):  I lived in Korea for a year and their culture, language and history interests me very much!    I enjoyed studying and researching it...plus I learned to read and write Hangul, so I like having validation that my time and effort wasn't wasted!  I also personally conduct classes in Korean and use the original terminology, although philosophically, I have slightly different opinions on that.


----------



## Makalakumu

MBuzzy said:


> As I say at work..."Which answer do you want?" You can have the "official" answer or the truth.
> 
> Official answer: The Korean culture is an essential part of Tang Soo Do and should be included in any reference regarding the art. The terminology and Korean culture pays tribute to the history and creation of the art.
> 
> Truth (My answer): I lived in Korea for a year and their culture, language and history interests me very much!  I enjoyed studying and researching it...plus I learned to read and write Hangul, so I like having validation that my time and effort wasn't wasted! I also personally conduct classes in Korean and use the original terminology, although philosophically, I have slightly different opinions on that.


 
Like I said, interesting.  I'll ponder both of those points.  Personally, I've never been big on the terminology.  It never seemed right because I knew the translations were wrong and the pronounciation was off.  I found this out in a very interesting way...

I took a group of Korean kids on a canoe trip in Northern Minnesota and "attempted" to "impress" them with my learned ways.  I wanted to show them that I wasn't a just another redneck with hay in the hair that just so happened to get into university.  It didn't work out like I had planned.

Anyway, Craig, maybe you need to write a book that teaches people proper usage, pronounciation, cultural significance of TSD terms.  Ever think of that?


----------



## terryl965

Yea you should use some of the termonology in the book just as a reference.


----------



## hkfuie

Only you know what you need to include in your book.  I use Korean terminology and love it.  I, too, learned to write Hangul...like a Korean kindergartner!  

But I have a korean terminology book for martial artists.  I think what you are planning is unique and it is OK for it to be just what you want it to be.  It doesn't have to be everything. 

I think the topic is exciting and I am really glad you plan to use English.  I would be in a world of hurt if you used the Japanese!


----------



## hkfuie

MBuzzy, 

I am glad you gave the REAL answer.  I often hear gasps when I give my real answers without thinking.  I think I'll adopt your ask first approach.  You want "official" or "real?"


----------



## hkfuie

maunakumu said:


> Sometimes, what we would call one "move" in a form is actually an entire self defense sequence. What we call "low block" is what I have termed as a complex technique. A complex technique is a movement that is composed of several simple techniques. Simple technique are what I teach as basics. They can be a punch, a parry, a joint lock, a throw, a grab, or a release.
> 
> As far as "sequences starting and ending on the same move" goes, that is a guideline for reading the syntax in a form. Complex techniques are never representative of one response. They always take on many forms. Also, no sequence in a form should ever be "read" more then two or three complex techniques.
> 
> Does this make any sense? When I write it up, I'll try and include some pictures and diagrams.


 
OK, the first paragraph I get.

The second paragraph...it means that only up to 2 or 3 of the moves we would teach as "basics" are strung together in one defense.

If that is what you mean, then I get that, too.  Thanks!

Also, I want to say that I appreciate that you are not using the pressure point references, but instead are planning to use anatomy.  Sounds to me like you are making it more accessible, which makes it easier for me to read and appreciate your work as a practitioner ofTKD, not TSD.


----------



## Makalakumu

Good to go on both points I made above.  I'm glad that it came out clearly.

As far as the TCM method of labeling strike points, I am a bit embarressed to write that up in a serious book for an American martial artist audience.  George Dillman has completely destroyed the credibility of anyone who names strike points in this manner because so many people will associate you with this known fraud.

The sad fact is that in any style of karate where kyusho is legitimately taught, using the meridian names is just what is done.  I don't know if I want to make a large effort to separate the two.  That might detract from the overall point that I am trying to make with this book.


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## MBuzzy

maunakumu said:


> Like I said, interesting.  I'll ponder both of those points.  Personally, I've never been big on the terminology.  It never seemed right because I knew the translations were wrong and the pronounciation was off.  I found this out in a very interesting way...
> 
> I took a group of Korean kids on a canoe trip in Northern Minnesota and "attempted" to "impress" them with my learned ways.  I wanted to show them that I wasn't a just another redneck with hay in the hair that just so happened to get into university.  It didn't work out like I had planned.
> 
> Anyway, Craig, maybe you need to write a book that teaches people proper usage, pronounciation, cultural significance of TSD terms.  Ever think of that?



I can only imagine.  The pronunciation that I've run into here is pretty atrocious.  Although many of our terms don't mean anything to your average Korean, since they are Chinese derived and not standard terms.  Kind of like if you were to get into certain types of Horse riding....even though they are English words, since they are derived from a different language and not common outside the sport, the average American has no idea what a piaffe, passage, schwung, uberstreichen, etc.  Just like your average Korean won't know words like bahk, ahn, dan, chook, etc...since they aren't Korean....they are Hanja.

I don't know, I'm really not qualified to write any kind of book.  Maybe in another 5 years or so!  

Also, please don't think that I would presume to tell you what to write, I have 100% confidence that what you choose will be the right thing and very much look forward to any book that you put out.  You have a few guaranteed sales here!


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## MBuzzy

maunakumu said:


> Good to go on both points I made above.  I'm glad that it came out clearly.
> 
> As far as the TCM method of labeling strike points, I am a bit embarressed to write that up in a serious book for an American martial artist audience.  George Dillman has completely destroyed the credibility of anyone who names strike points in this manner because so many people will associate you with this known fraud.
> 
> The sad fact is that in any style of karate where kyusho is legitimately taught, using the meridian names is just what is done.  I don't know if I want to make a large effort to separate the two.  That might detract from the overall point that I am trying to make with this book.



It is true that some of the ideas have been "tarnished" in the eyes of most people, but you're right.  As long as it is framed in the context of Anatomy, I think that you're ok.  Maybe just a foreward explaining that the terms you use are simply "industry standard" and shouldn't be related to any other previous uses by less reputable people....only more eloquently. 

There is certainly no argument that aiming for a vulnerable point between muscles or pressing nerves against bones is not an effective method of pain compliance.


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## hkfuie

maunakumu said:


> The sad fact is that in any style of karate where kyusho is legitimately taught, using the meridian names is just what is done. I don't know if I want to make a large effort to separate the two. That might detract from the overall point that I am trying to make with this book.


 
Well, here I go.  Now I am going to tell you to put it in the glossary!  You made me do it!  

Seriously, I if you had both, I would find it helpful.

I have attended some Japanese style seminars where this type of terminology was used, but I do not know enough about it to use it myself.


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## MBuzzy

John,

I just found this....it may be old news to you, but it seems PERFECT for this project!  Maximum availability to the community, although less profit for you.  I might consider writing something now that I know this exists!

http://www.lulu.com/


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## Makalakumu

That is a great site to get your foot in the door when it comes to publishing.  You can use it to build your reputation and to get some sales under your belt before you look for an agent.  Also, there are some authors who start there, write something magnificent, and are picked up directly by a major publisher.  It's America, anything is possible!


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## astrobiologist

I've been reading and I have to say that I am excited to read your book...  I hope your work is challenging yet fun.  Though we have never met in person, I must say that you seem like a very knowledgable and respectful martial artist.  I know it can take time and hard work to properly get a book out, but make sure you let everyone know when you do so that we can run to our local book shops and demand that they carry a few copies!

Graham


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## Makalakumu

Well, I'm about 100 pages in and I'm running into problems.  I'm running out of sources.  There is so little written about Tang Soo Do that isn't 2000 year old history crap, that its hard to find good pieces on the curriculum itself.  The good news is that I'm getting to a point where I can start to draw on other Karate sources in order to support some of the changes I suggest in the book.  We'll see how the rest goes...


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## MBuzzy

Excellent, I'm excited!  If you do run into issues of source problems, I'd be happy to help, I try to keep all of the major Organization's texts on hand as well other resources.  So I might be able to offer some distance researching if it would help at all.


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## astrobiologist

maunakumu said:


> Well, I'm about 100 pages in and I'm running into problems. I'm running out of sources. There is so little written about Tang Soo Do that isn't 2000 year old history crap, that its hard to find good pieces on the curriculum itself. The good news is that I'm getting to a point where I can start to draw on other Karate sources in order to support some of the changes I suggest in the book. We'll see how the rest goes...


 
Ya, I know that many people who train in our art want to think that TSD is 2000 years old and they try to bring up all this history of martial arts in Korea, but Tang Soo Do, and even Tae Kwon Do, are very heavily rooted in Japanese and Okinawan martial arts.  It is nice to know the ancient history of Korea and to see where the Masters have tried to blend remnants of historical knowledge on ancient korean fighting techniques into their systems, but we really have to accept the fact that our art is not unique to Korea.

I wish you good luck finding sources to work with in writting your book.  I wish I could help, but I really am unsure of where else you could look for further insight.  

Keep working hard and keep us updated...


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## EMST930

maunakumu said:


> Well, I'm about 100 pages in and I'm running into problems.  I'm running out of sources.  There is so little written about Tang Soo Do that isn't 2000 year old history crap, that its hard to find good pieces on the curriculum itself.  The good news is that I'm getting to a point where I can start to draw on other Karate sources in order to support some of the changes I suggest in the book.  We'll see how the rest goes...



Maunakumu,

Have you ever read "Korean Martial Arts Handbook" by Glenn Jones?  He is friend of my father's and his book is required reading for our association.  I'll include a few excerpts that you may find interesting.

page 5-6:  _One of the unflattering issues surrounding the Korean martial arts is that a great number of its leaders and school founders, beginning in the early 1950's and continuing into the present, have chosen to make use of this limited ancient evidence to support historical claims with regard to their specific art, styles or schools.  Literally all of these claims are completely false.  There are no Korean martial arts today actually based on or moderately reflective to what was Korea's ancient arts.  At the present time in new publications and web sites, reference to "Hapkido," "Tae Kwon Do" or "Tang Soo Do" as an example, being part of the 6th, 8th, or 12th century Korean martial arts landscape are found a great deal.  Endless associations, federations, and publications use the historical artifacts which are left in the form of paintings, murals, and statues, from as early as the 3rd and 4th century which show martial arts poses and postures, as a part of the history of their art.  They also however, cite these as evidence of the ancient legitimacy of those specific arts, all of which did not come into being in actuality until 1945 or after.  The tombs of the Koguryo Kingdom, as an example, do not show "Tae Kwon Do," "Hapkido," or "Hwarang Do" or evidence of it.  They do depict the indigenous arts of the time.
These consistent myths are, in the last few years, being countered by truth as more and more Korean and American-Korean martial artists are beginning to both discover and propagate the more factual details of Korean martial arts history.
Taking into consideration the subjugation of the Korean culture by the Japanese beginning in the early 1900's and the eradication of so many of its historical works, the Koreans, in the beginning of a new era of martial arts schools, styles and systems at the end of World War II, found that they could not fall back on well documented civil and military martial traditions as could the Japanese and Chinese.  It was their efforts to add legitimacy to what were already very legitimate martial arts, even if based on Japanese/Okinawan civil fighting traditions and link them to Korea's history, which resulted in these inaccurate histories being presented._

page 17-18:  _The focus on Shotokan as the primary and as is presented by some, the only basis for the modern Korean empty-hand hard style is equally inaccurate.  While Funakoshi was without question the most notable of the Okinawan to bring the art to Japan, he was by no means the only one to do so.  He was the most willing to adapt his art to the Japanese way of thinking as evidenced, for example, by his renaming the traditional forms Okinawan Karate-Justu in an effort to make them more acceptable to the mainstream Japanese public.  Two other prominent Okinawan instructors, Mabuni Kenwa and Toyama Kanken who had both trained under Itosu Yatsutsune and Higaonna Kanryo, would come to Japan to teach as well.  These two men, Itosu and Higaonna, were considered the most promientnt instructors of the "Shorin and "Shorei" Okinawan styles.  As such Mabuni and Toyama who would train Yoon Kye Byung, the Founder of Chi Do Kwan, were in many senses a grade above Funakoshi in experience and knowledge.  Toyama Kanken would also train Yoon Byung In who would be responsible for the development of the Chang Moo Kwan and Kang Duk Won through two of his primary students, Lee Nam Seok and Park Chul Hee.  While the styles of Shotokan, Shudokan and Shito-Ryu are primarily based on Itosu's teachings, each would develop in its own way.  As such, the arts learnd by Lee, Yoo, Ro, and Yoon, four of the founders of the original Korean Kwans, were indeed different to a certain degree.  Each chose a somewhat different form of physical expression for the similar arts they learned.  In the same fashion that the Japanese would take the Okinawan art of Karate-Jutsu in the period between 1925 and 1940 and adapt it to the Japanese culture, the original Kwan founders took the Okinawan art they had learned in that time frame and adapted it to the Korean culture.  It is more accurate to say that the modern Korean arts of Tae Kwon Do, Kong Soo Do and Tang Soo Do are the Korean evolution of Okinawan Karate just as Shotokan, as we know it today, is the Japanese evolution of the same art._


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## SJON

This looks very interesting. I would certainly buy it.

Maunakumu, PM me if I can be of assistance regarding possible publishing venues.

Best regards,

Simon


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## Makalakumu

SJON said:


> This looks very interesting. I would certainly buy it.
> 
> Maunakumu, PM me if I can be of assistance regarding possible publishing venues.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Simon



Thanks for the offer, Simon.  I'm almost to the point where I can put this thing out there.  It's been dominating my free time.  I'm sure you know what I'm talking about.  LOL!


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## Makalakumu

I've been waiting to make this post for a long time...

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1198866#post1198866

There's my book!


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## zohran

Congratulations.  I'm looking forward to reading it.


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