# Leung Ting vs Leung Sheung



## Nicholas82555 (Oct 9, 2009)

What is the major difference between training in the LT vs LS system?
LT has a school 25 miles from me and LS (Kenneth Cheung) 150 miles. I would like the LS but my hooptie isn't that good to drive all those miles. So assume until I can do better, its better to get started than to wait around to get a better ride.

No politics, just a good strong foundation wanted.


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## geezer (Oct 10, 2009)

Nicholas82555 said:


> What is the major difference between training in the LT vs LS system?
> LT has a school 25 miles from me and LS (Kenneth Cheung) 150 miles. I would like the LS but my *hooptie* isn't that good to drive all those miles. So assume until I can do better, its better to get started than to wait around to get a better ride.
> 
> No politics, just a good strong foundation wanted.



I spent a long time studying under LT back in the 80's, and it's a quality system. On the other hand, the LT system has been criticized for becoming commercialized. Ultimately, I really believe you have to _check out the instructor_. If he's a good teacher, then go with it. If not, find somebody else. Honestly, _that's_ more important than quibbling over whose name hangs over the door. 

Another thing, I've been commuting across the city I live in to continue my instruction. That's about 25 miles each way. At first, I didn't mind, but all that driving gets to be an obstacle to training after a while. You really need to see your instructor as often as possible to maximize your progress. 150 miles each way would be really tough to keep up. If you choose that school, you'd probably end up having to settle for one long session a week... maybe supplemented by some private training. It would be pretty tough to maintain. Not impossible though.

Anyway, whatever you decide, keep posting and let us know how it goes!

BTW-- I never heard that term "hooptie" before. Sounds kinda English. Where are you located?


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## Nicholas82555 (Oct 11, 2009)

I live in Seaside California which is next door to Monterey and Pebble Beach. I picked up hooptie when I was stationed years ago at Ft. Bragg NC. It's a term used for a broke down ride)))) One that will get u barely where u want to go))))))


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## Nabakatsu (Oct 11, 2009)

I too am familiar with that term, I can't even recall where tho, I study an offshoot of Leung Tings, EBMAS, leung ting>kernshpect>Emin Boztepe so.. while the teaching method isn't exactly the same, the system is pretty the same. I really like it, but intend on trying to learn multiple lineages and piecing stuff together for myself, check out the school for a month or two, and than go from there. One thing thats unique to Leung Ting's branch of Wing Tzun is that our weight is completely in our rear leg. let me post 2 instructional videos, one of WSL and one of LT, that may help in deciding for yourself what you think.

WSL's Wing chun: (part 1 of instructional video)





Leung Tings wing tzun: (application video, couldn't find instructional video)


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## Si-Je (Oct 12, 2009)

Nick,

From what I'm finding out, the difference is very big. very.
the LT system is good. But the other is, well, ... as far as I like it. Groovy! 

Now, that's if it's the same system. I think its Kenneth Chung, you'd have to tell me a bit more about the style. 
I've found recently that there are screamin' differences between different branches of Wing Chun. 

I mean, sure, it's still wing chun. But some masters teach only what they like themselves and some hold back teaching, and others learn a totally different way than the "mainstream" teaching.

Is this better or bad? 
Who knows?
It's all personal preference.

Oooops! said to much. nevermind,. just erase this whole post! lol!
Folks might be watching the forums.


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## geezer (Oct 12, 2009)

Si-Je said:


> I've found recently that there are *screamin' differences* between different branches of Wing Chun.



Yep. That's one reason why Leung Ting chose the "WT" spelling for his system... to call attention to the fact that it was different from the other WC, even in the Yip Man lineage. Although those differences don't seem all athat great compared with some of the other lineages that have emerged on the scene since. 

The comparison between Leung Sheung and Leung Ting is especially interesting, since if I remember correctly, Leung Ting began as a student of Leung Sheung... something he doesn't like to talk about much. He apparently had a falling out with his instructor and ended up  briefly studying directly with Grandmaster Yip near to the end of the Grandmaster's life. The particulars of this story are hard to verify and way too political to discuss here. 

Anyway, the Leung Ting system, although very combat oriented is "softer" and more yielding in some of it's applications. According to what I heard from Leung Ting, this is because as Grandmaster Yip became very old, he emphasized the "spring-like" and yielding aspects more since he could no longer apply his explosive speed and force as before. 

This distinction can be illustrated in the Leung Ting application of bong-sau. Contrary to many who trained with Grandmaster Yip in the early days, LT teaches that you _never strike out and attempt to lift up your opponent's arm with a bong sau._ In fact you never "make your own bong-sau" at all. Your arm simply goes forward to contact your opponent. If it meets stronger force, it flexes and bends like bamboo, becoming bong sau. So it is your opponent who makes your bong-sau with his own force!  

Now if your opponent drives in with his punch, your bong sau and stance just deflect to the side and you slip out of the way, like a bull-fighter with his cape side-stepping the charge of a bull. If your opponent drives downward against your bong-sau, you simply let his arm slide downward and let it go... like rain sliding off a steeply pitched roof, and then your bong-sau like a bent spring that is suddenly released will snap forward and strike your opponent.

This "spring" concept is close to the heart of Leung Ting's approach, and though simple sounding, is a very sophisticated concept. It can be difficult to execute... especially if, like me, you are tense and stiff-jointed. I often fall back on using force and get away with it... until I meet someone who can really apply this soft, springy energy. Then _I can't even touch them!_


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## coxscorner (Jun 24, 2011)

Late to the conversation but I suggest checking out the following video of Martin Dragos to see some of the potential of the Leung Ting lineage:


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## Eric_H (Jun 24, 2011)

geezer said:


> Yep. That's one reason why Leung Ting chose the "WT" spelling for his system... to call attention to the fact that it was different from the other WC, even in the Yip Man lineage. Although those differences don't seem all athat great compared with some of the other lineages that have emerged on the scene since.



I had always heard it was because WC in Europe is short for Water Closet (bathroom). Who wants to train the bathroom martial art?


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## shaolin_al (Jun 24, 2011)

Eric_H said:


> I had always heard it was because WC in Europe is short for Water Closet (bathroom). Who wants to train the bathroom martial art?



I would. what if you need to defend yourself in the loo?


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## Eric_H (Jun 24, 2011)

shaolin_al said:


> I would. what if you need to defend yourself in the loo?



Now this thread's in the toilet....


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## yak sao (Jun 24, 2011)

I think that's enough bathroom humor..............


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## cwk (Jun 25, 2011)

yak sao said:


> I think that's enough bathroom humor..............


Yak Sao- as reliable as ever.


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