# American Soldier also a Hero



## MA-Caver (Jun 4, 2011)

Looks like Gurkhas aren't the only bad asses on the planet.  

http://beta.news.yahoo.com/video/us...teran-helps-thwart-bank-robbery-25431262.html

A true warrior indeed being the father to his children in protection mode. 
5 tours of duty... definitely shows. 

It also raises several questions.
About his bravery I have NO question about that nor do I question his choice of action and do NOT judge them to be foolhardy. It was the right thing to do and a father's JOB. First and foremost, then shelter and feed them. 

One of the questions is that we've been seeing more and more stories like this... is it propaganda? Or honest to God feel good stories? 

Have another question but this needs to stand on it's own or it'll get buried by the first question.


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## Tez3 (Jun 4, 2011)

Gurkhas aren't 'bad asses' at all. Gurkha soldiers are well trained, highly disciplined and efficient military personnel. They are very pragmatic about the arts of war as are most soldiers in our army, in fact I would say there's several British regiments such as the Black Watch that I would call bad asses who cause far more aggravation than the Gurkhas ever do.
I don't know about this story being propaganda,I don't know what sort of stories you get on your military though I have heard it said (from American service personnel here) that you don't get the 'bad' stories about soldiers being killed or injured and you don't get the documentaries we do about life on the front line.


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## elder999 (Jun 4, 2011)

Tez3 said:


> Gurkhas aren't 'bad asses' at all. .


 

badass:



> The epitome of the American male. He radiates confidence in everything he does, whether it's ordering a drink, buying a set of wheels, or dealing with women. He's slow to anger, brutally efficient when fighting back.
> 
> The badass carves his own path. He wears, drives, drinks, watches, and listens to what he chooses, when he chooses, where he chooses, uninfluenced by fads or advertising campaigns. Badass style is understated but instantly recognizable. Like a chopped Harley or a good pair of sunglasses: simple, direct, and functional.


 
Or:



> _often vulgar_ *:* of formidable strength or skill <such a _badass_ guitar player &#8212; N'Gai Croal>


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## Tez3 (Jun 4, 2011)

Bad *** is a Western concept, the Nepalese are Asians. They wouldn't see it the same way especially the part about being individual, that's not their concept at all. They are about conforming and being part of their society, they fight as this soldier did for his comrades, it would be great shame on him if he hadn't. They are the complete opposite of the Western idea of bad ***.


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## elder999 (Jun 4, 2011)

Tez3 said:


> Bad *** is a Western concept, the Nepalese are Asians. They wouldn't see it the same way especially the part about being individual, that's not their concept at all. They are about conforming and being part of their society, they fight as this soldier did for his comrades, it would be great shame on him if he hadn't. They are the complete opposite of the Western idea of bad ***.


 
'Caver's not Nepalese, or Asian, to the best of my knowledge, and it was him using the phrase.

The Ghurkas are, after all, "_of formidable strength and skill."_

Tez,_ lighten up._ Not everything is even worth arguing about......:lol:


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## Tez3 (Jun 4, 2011)

elder999 said:


> 'Caver's not Nepalese, or Asian, to the best of my knowledge, and it was him using the phrase.
> 
> The Ghurkas are, after all, "_of formidable strength and skill."_
> 
> Tez,_ lighten up._ Not everything is even worth arguing about......:lol:


 
I'm not arguing in the least, you've misread my post if you think that besides 'bad ***' is more a crude expression here than it is for you, i'ts not a compliment in my neck of the woods more an insult aactually. MA Caver thinks the Ghurkas are Tibetan anyway.
Ghurkas are good soldiers but they are just the same as any other British soldier! You want 'bad ***' in your sense and ours you want the Black Watch!
Besides after my first comment others chose to take it up, I was asking about the propaganda aspect..no one answered that point!


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## MA-Caver (Jun 4, 2011)

Sigh
I made this post soon on the heels of the post of a Nepalese soldier who stayed off 30+ Taliban fighters single-handedly. To us (Yankee Americans) it is one of the things that epitomizes the phrase "bad ***" I mean 30+ to one. Bad *** that he isn't afraid to die in face of such overwhelming odds. Maybe not all Ghurkas are like him but the reputation seems to be so.  
Now this American soldier staring down armed bank robber after coolly setting up a barricade to protect his kids, then going after the robber, stopping and holding him until the police show up... again ... Bad *** mo-fo.  

But yes Tez... I agree.. lighten up and anyway... THIS thread isn't about the bravery of Ghurkas (that's elsewhere). It's about something else entirely. 





Tez3 said:


> MA Caver thinks the Ghurkas are Tibetan anyway.


 Oh and I never thought of them as Tibetan but I do see what you're saying.  

And yes Elder, I'm not asian by a long shot... Irish on m'father's side  (which is why I played with the accent by saying "anglish" in the other thread... tongue in cheek) Dutch on my mother's side.

So it's not so much over your side of the pond as it is here? 
It's what I was wondering... if it is propaganda to promote an increasingly unpopular war. Subtle, not Audie Murphy type in your face "Look at this guy folks and be sure to buy bonds!" But lots of videos of returning vets coming home being greeted by family/pets making marriage proposals in ball parks and so on... Yeah there's a war on and we're all proud of our boys in ... umm... camo. But we don't like what they're fighting and dying for. So... ramp up the attention/focus to keep the good feelings going and the bad-resentful feelings out.


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## WC_lun (Jun 4, 2011)

Soldiers on an individual basis are just people and share people's strength and weaknesses.  I think this particular soldier is awsome, not because he stopped the bank robbers, but because he thought enough of his role as a father to put himself between the robbers and his kids. He wasn't being a hero, he was protecting his kids. 

I do think here in the US we are more likely to hear positive things than negative things through our media.  No one wants to be seen as soldier bashing, even if it is something like the media paying attention to the fact that a lot of soldiers need help after returning home.  It is seen as weakness in them and that isn't comforting to he masses.  Our military isn't above glossing over the real stories either, ala Pat Tillman.

In my opinion, the greatest thing about people serving in the military is that they ARE normal everyday people who put themselves in harms way for the rest of us.  Sometimes they are put in situations that call for greater action than most humans are capable of and then we call them heroes.  In my opinion, they are heroes when they put on the uniform, hether they stop bank robbers in civilian life or not.


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## Tez3 (Jun 4, 2011)

MA-Caver said:


> Sigh
> I made this post soon on the heels of the post of a Nepalese soldier who stayed off 30+ Taliban fighters single-handedly. To us (Yankee Americans) it is one of the things that epitomizes the phrase "bad ***" I mean 30+ to one. Bad *** that he isn't afraid to die in face of such overwhelming odds. Maybe not all Ghurkas are like him but the reputation seems to be so.
> Now this American soldier staring down armed bank robber after coolly setting up a barricade to protect his kids, then going after the robber, stopping and holding him until the police show up... again ... Bad *** mo-fo.
> 
> ...


 

Actually you are missing the* main* point of my post which was in reply to your comment of propaganda, no one seems to have picked that up they are too busy castigating me on what they* misread* as my combativeness.

You did mistake them for Tibetans as you said in your other post that they are Buddhists and produced the Dalai Lama.

I've got the Ghurkha TKDers reading MT, I'm trying to get them to sign up as well so I don't want them going off insulted because they been called 'bad ***', which they not keen on!


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## yorkshirelad (Jun 4, 2011)

Tez3 said:


> Actually you are missing the* main* point of my post which was in reply to your comment of propaganda, no one seems to have picked that up they are too busy castigating me on what they* misread* as my combativeness.
> 
> You did mistake them for Tibetans as you said in your other post that they are Buddhists and produced the Dalai Lama.
> 
> I've got the Ghurkha TKDers reading MT, I'm trying to get them to sign up as well so I don't want them going off insulted because they been called 'bad ***', which they not keen on!


 
"Bad-***" means the same in both the US and UK. It's not an insult. This fine Gurkha soldier has recieved nothing but praise here, and rightly so.  It would seem though, IMHO, that some people find insults where ever the look!


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## Tez3 (Jun 4, 2011)

yorkshirelad said:


> "Bad-***" means the same in both the US and UK. It's not an insult. This fine Gurkha soldier has recieved nothing but praise here, and rightly so. It would seem though, IMHO, that some people find insults where ever the look!


 
I see you chose not to discuss the propaganda issue mentioned by the OP either.

You think a thing is so just because you say it is? I told you the Ghurkhas read MT and don't like 'bad ***' but you know better of course. I don't find 'bad ***' ( nor does the Oxford dictionary) as anything other than an American expression. It's not used much over here unless it's by wannabe 'gangstas' and chavs lol and nobody wants to be seen speaking the same way they do!

http://www.arrse.co.uk/wiki/Gurkha

This is how you speak of them lol!


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## yorkshirelad (Jun 4, 2011)

Tez3 said:


> I see you chose not to discuss the propaganda issue mentioned by the OP either.
> 
> You think a thing is so just because you say it is? *I told you the Ghurkhas read MT and don't like 'bad ***'* but you know better of course.!


 
Wow, you have all Gurkhas reading MT. I bet Bob was wondering why he was getting all that MT traffic from Nepal. 
I bet all those noble Gurkhas are appaulled at all the praise they're getting here. They should be disgusted!!:rofl:


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## Tez3 (Jun 5, 2011)

yorkshirelad said:


> Wow, you have all Gurkhas reading MT. I bet Bob was wondering why he was getting all that MT traffic from Nepal.
> I bet all those noble Gurkhas are appaulled at all the praise they're getting here. They should be disgusted!!:rofl:


 

Don't be silly, the Gurkhas I'm referring to are the instructors at the Infantry Training Centre here in Catterick Garrison who I train with in TKD which I did say and as usual you didn't read. My shift partner is a Gurkha and as we do long shifts we spend a lot of time chatting.
It's a matter of perception, the word badass here is used by teenagers who have their jeans hanging round their knees and their hoods up over their heads playing hard. It's used by chavs dressed in Burberry to express delight when some kid is beaten up so yeah_ anyone_ here would be chuffed to be called a badass. The Gurkhas are taught English, the Queen's English not American English, *** is what we call **** so no it doesn't sound nice to them. Think of the differences in the perception of words used by Americans and the English such as fag, fanny, rubber etc. it's a cultural perception and the word badass isn't one of the words that immediately strikes most non American English speakers as being a polite word.
It's politic not to upset them, a British officer did a while back when they were stationed in Hong Kong, the Gurkhas rigged a hand grenade in his desk drawer and he was blown up.

Such is the fame of the Gurkhas one only needs to say the word 'Gurkha', it's self explanitory, you don't need American slang to describe such brave soldiers you just say he's a Gurkha!


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## elder999 (Jun 5, 2011)

Tez3 said:


> Such is the fame of the Gurkhas one only needs to say the word 'Gurkha', it's self explanitory, you don't need American slang to describe such brave soldiers you just say he's a Gurkha!


 
That's pretty _*badass.*_ :lol:


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## elder999 (Jun 5, 2011)




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## elder999 (Jun 5, 2011)

Or.....


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## elder999 (Jun 5, 2011)

And yet.....


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## elder999 (Jun 5, 2011)

And even still....:lfao:


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## Tez3 (Jun 5, 2011)

Nice pics lol! One of the joys of working with Gurkhas is that with English not being their first or even second or third language they tend to take what you say in English very literally, English is full of odd expressions you have to watch for when talking to them, that's why when the Brit officer said to his Gurkhas 'I want the heads of these Taliban leaders' they took him at his word and brought him the heads.... just the heads. When one of them said to him 'you next' he thought the soldier mean his head was next and had him arrested and sent back to the UK, what he meant was 'you go out now and bring back heads'. I don't think the Taliban were too chuffed either.


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## Ken Morgan (Jun 5, 2011)

Tez3 said:


> Don't be silly, the Gurkhas I'm referring to are the instructors at the Infantry Training Centre here in Catterick Garrison who I train with in TKD which I did say and as usual you didn't read. My shift partner is a Gurkha and as we do long shifts we spend a lot of time chatting.
> It's a matter of perception, the word badass here is used by teenagers who have their jeans hanging round their knees and their hoods up over their heads playing hard. It's used by chavs dressed in Burberry to express delight when some kid is beaten up so yeah_ anyone_ here would be chuffed to be called a badass. The Gurkhas are taught English, the Queen's English not American English, *** is what we call **** so no it doesn't sound nice to them. Think of the differences in the perception of words used by Americans and the English such as fag, fanny, rubber etc. it's a cultural perception and the word badass isn't one of the words that immediately strikes most non American English speakers as being a polite word.
> It's politic not to upset them, a British officer did a while back when they were stationed in Hong Kong, the Gurkhas rigged a hand grenade in his desk drawer and he was blown up.
> 
> Such is the fame of the Gurkhas one only needs to say the word 'Gurkha', it's self explanitory, you don't need American slang to describe such brave soldiers you just say he's a Gurkha!


 
My Grandfather was is North Africa in WW2. He tells the story of being friendly with the Gurkha's, no issues, but one of the Sgts was a racist *** and gave them a hardtime all the time, riding them at every chance. One morning the Sgt never showed up for parade, so someone went to find him, he was still in bed with his throat cut wide open. 
We would just put up with the BS, they end the BS.


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## Tez3 (Jun 5, 2011)

Ken Morgan said:


> My Grandfather was is North Africa in WW2. He tells the story of being friendly with the Gurkha's, no issues, but one of the Sgts was a racist *** and gave them a hardtime all the time, riding them at every chance. One morning the Sgt never showed up for parade, so someone went to find him, he was still in bed with his throat cut wide open.
> We would just put up with the BS, they end the BS.


 
People can be very patronising about them, I find it quite annoying that some Army officers treat them like kids but they usually get their own back. Never mistake their politeness for weakness, they can be very savage in their reprisals. They don't speak the same language, there's about 13 different languages so questioning them is a nightmare if they don't want to be asked about anything. Their English can be non existant too then.
Many have had hard lives back in Nepal before they joined up,it can make life seem cheap. Places are limited in the Gurkha regiments both the British and the Indian so competition is fierce. There's quite a lot of things that go on but stays in the regiment even more so that other Army regiments.


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## yorkshirelad (Jun 5, 2011)

Tez3 said:


> Don't be silly, the Gurkhas I'm referring to are the instructors at the Infantry Training Centre here in Catterick Garrison who I train with in TKD which I did say and as usual you didn't read. My shift partner is a Gurkha and as we do long shifts we spend a lot of time chatting.
> It's a matter of perception, the word badass here is used by teenagers who have their jeans hanging round their knees and their hoods up over their heads playing hard. It's used by chavs dressed in Burberry to express delight when some kid is beaten up so yeah_ anyone_ here would be chuffed to be called a badass. The Gurkhas are taught English, the Queen's English not American English, *** is what we call **** so no it doesn't sound nice to them. Think of the differences in the perception of words used by Americans and the English such as fag, fanny, rubber etc. it's a cultural perception and the word badass isn't one of the words that immediately strikes most non American English speakers as being a polite word.
> It's politic not to upset them, a British officer did a while back when they were stationed in Hong Kong, the Gurkhas rigged a hand grenade in his desk drawer and he was blown up.
> 
> Such is the fame of the Gurkhas one only needs to say the word 'Gurkha', it's self explanitory, you don't need American slang to describe such brave soldiers you just say he's a Gurkha!


 
Yes, I was just being flippant. I think Americanisms permeate into UK society through the media and I can see Gurkhas being far too polite to consider themselves 'bad-asses'. My step father was stationed at Catterick Garrison in the late 70s. He told me that 'casual dress' to the Gurkhas was regimental blazer with slacks. He said that they were the most polite people he ever met, but at the same time tough as nails.


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## Tez3 (Jun 5, 2011)

yorkshirelad said:


> Yes, I was just being flippant. I think Americanisms permeate into UK society through the media and I can see Gurkhas being far too polite to consider themselves 'bad-asses'. My step father was stationed at Catterick Garrison in the late 70s. He told me that 'casual dress' to the Gurkhas was regimental blazer with slacks. He said that they were the most polite people he ever met, but at the same time tough as nails.


 
It's not just their being polite, they translate English words literally, they don't get the nuances in English so bad *** comes out as not being something good to be. The politeness can be a barrier too as they keep themselves very private but the men are good at flirting lol. All Gurkhas are very bad drivers though. You take your life in hands when doing access control duties.
Casual dress for trained soldiers is now whatever they want but the new recruits that have come straight from Nepal wear a casual 'uniform' of black trousers, white shirts, tie, black blazer and/or a grey v necked jumper. They look like schoolboys when they are shopping out etc. The Gurkhas at Catterick would have been Signals guys in the 70's, the ITC where they train the recruits wasn't here until quite recently.


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## MA-Caver (Jun 5, 2011)

Is it possible to start a whole new thread about the Gurkhas if we're not going to focus on the American soldier in the OP? 

Geez make one passing reference and a whole new can of worms opens up. 

Would it help if I sincerely apologize to anyone who was offended even if they're NOT Gurkhas and seem to bear their sensitivities on their shoulders?


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## Tez3 (Jun 5, 2011)

MA-Caver said:


> Is it possible to start a whole new thread about the Gurkhas if we're not going to focus on the American soldier in the OP?
> 
> Geez make one passing reference and a whole new can of worms opens up.
> 
> Would it help if I sincerely apologize to anyone who was offended even if they're NOT Gurkhas and seem to bear their sensitivities on their shoulders?


 
Was anyone offended? No I wasn't, don't think anyone else was. I mentioned them in passing, *my main point was that you'd mentioned propaganda* etc which I picked up on. A couple of people chose to make a personal point about me, as you are and so the Gurkha thing went on. I wasn't saying anyone was offended I was pointing out that like using the N word for black people one shouldn't call them what _they_ consider as 'names'. Merely that, _as it was_ _mentioned to me_, I passed it on. Cultural differences can sometimes mean we use words we consider fine but others don't. I thought that you wouldn't want to inadvertently make a faux pas so I mentioned it, so guys get over it and stop thinking I have hidden agendas or am 'sensitive', trust me I have the hide of a rhino.


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## MA-Caver (Jun 5, 2011)

Tez3 said:


> Was anyone offended? No I wasn't, don't think anyone else was. I mentioned them in passing, *my main point was that you'd mentioned propaganda* etc which I picked up on. A couple of people chose to make a personal point about me, as you are and so the Gurkha thing went on. I wasn't saying anyone was offended I was pointing out that like using the N word for black people one shouldn't call them what _they_ consider as 'names'. Merely that, _as it was_ _mentioned to me_, I passed it on. Cultural differences can sometimes mean we use words we consider fine but others don't. I thought that you wouldn't want to inadvertently make a faux pas so I mentioned it, so guys get over it and stop thinking I have hidden agendas or am 'sensitive', trust me I have the hide of a rhino.


Well that's good to know, honestly. 
I didn't think I was making a faux pas and if I did it wasn't intentional of course but then it understanding cultural differences alright... as long as BOTH SIDES understand the differences. If a Gurkha was to read all of this and be offended by being referred to as a "bad-***" then I think it's _their_ responsibility to look it up to make sure it wasn't intended as an insult before taking offense. 
Besides I'm sure if you ask them, they probably got their own descriptive terminology for the same thing. Even THEY would admire a man (their own or not) who faces down terrific odds and comes out of it alive.


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## yorkshirelad (Jun 5, 2011)

Tez3 said:


> It's not just their being polite, they translate English words literally, they don't get the nuances in English so bad *** comes out as not being something good to be. The politeness can be a barrier too as they keep themselves very private but the men are good at flirting lol. All Gurkhas are very bad drivers though. You take your life in hands when doing access control duties.
> Casual dress for trained soldiers is now whatever they want but the new recruits that have come straight from Nepal wear a casual 'uniform' of black trousers, white shirts, tie, black blazer and/or a grey v necked jumper. They look like schoolboys when they are shopping out etc. *The Gurkhas at Catterick would have been Signals guys in the 70's, the ITC where they train the recruits wasn't here until quite recently*.


 
QFT! My step father was a 'scaley' for a while. He enjoyed his friendship with Gurkhas and maintained those friendships over the years.


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## Tez3 (Jun 5, 2011)

MA-Caver said:


> Well that's good to know, honestly.
> I didn't think I was making a faux pas and if I did it wasn't intentional of course but then it understanding cultural differences alright... as long as BOTH SIDES understand the differences. If a Gurkha was to read all of this and be offended by being referred to as a "bad-***" then I think it's _their_ responsibility to look it up to make sure it wasn't intended as an insult before taking offense.
> Besides I'm sure if you ask them, they probably got their own descriptive terminology for the same thing. *Even THEY would admire a man (their own or not) who faces down* terrific odds and comes out of it alive.


 
Yeah they probably would but they know the whole story, you might be surprised because a lot of the story wasn't told ( do you really think he was the only one on guard and everyone else was asleep when the insurgents attacked?) so they aren't saying much, I told you they are closed mouthed about things but they aren't taking the pleasure in this that you would assume they should.

It's not that my shift partner took offence, he was puzzled more by why a Gurkha or anyone not a bad person would be called a bad ***. As I said if English is your fourth language, misunderstandings are common and looking things up are are liable to make things more complicated, trust me on this one. My shift partner's reports are a joy to read, they are extremely idiosyncratic.


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## elder999 (Jun 5, 2011)

In re: "propaganda."

Sure, it could be used that way, but what the guy did was extraordinary, and caught on film. That he may have been able to behave as he did with such a calm demeanor is, of course, due to his military experience, and that's part of the story, but, just as there are stories about people who have never taken a martial art lesson disarming gunmen...._almost regularly_- someone who wasn't in the military might have taken the same actions, especially in regards to their children (liked how they listened to him, too!)




			
				Tez3 said:
			
		

> It's not that my shift partner took offence, he was puzzled more by why a Gurkha or anyone not a bad person would be called a bad ***.


 
And, of course, you explained that "badass" is *good*, right? :lfao:


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## Tez3 (Jun 5, 2011)

elder999 said:


> In re: "propaganda."
> 
> Sure, it could be used that way, but what the guy did was extraordinary, and caught on film. That he may have been able to behave as he did with such a calm demeanor is, of course, due to his military experience, and that's part of the story, but, just as there are stories about people who have never taken a martial art lesson disarming gunmen...._almost regularly_- someone who wasn't in the military might have taken the same actions, especially in regards to their children (liked how they listened to him, too!)
> 
> ...


 
Well, I tried but it started going a bit weird you know lol, we got into bums and things and yes I know that bums to you are tramps but they are backsides to us! Ever seen an Gurkha blush?

On the subject of propaganda, the Gurkha story is a very good example of that.


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## granfire (Jun 5, 2011)

Tez3 said:


> Well, I tried but it started going a bit weird you know lol, we got into bums and things and yes I know that bums to you are tramps but they are backsides to us! Ever seen an Gurkha blush?
> 
> On the subject of propaganda, the Gurkha story is a very good example of that.




Tomorrow you can try to explain to him that 'sick' can be the outmost praise one (surfer or skater) can bestow upon a person.


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