# Can You Stand Still?



## Siunimtao (May 20, 2012)

Motionless is the secret,   if you can lock on to a focal point you will obtain motionless while Standing your on the right track, 

 If you cant stand motionless   I reccommend that you keep trying untill you even Start SNT,

hows your movement when in the stance, Do you feel motionless?    if so how do you maintain it?


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## rickster (May 20, 2012)

I am not quite sure what is this about.......


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## mook jong man (May 20, 2012)

Siunimtao said:


> Motionless is the secret,   if you can lock on to a focal point you will obtain motionless while Standing your on the right track,
> 
> If you cant stand motionless   I reccommend that you keep trying untill you even Start SNT,
> 
> hows your movement when in the stance, Do you feel motionless?    if so how do you maintain it?



I think your talking about "Standing Practice"
It's used so that you can concentrate on maintaining the "Tei Gong" internal contraction and work on straightening and expanding the vertebrae in your spine and finding your centre of balance.

Any problem regions where you carry tension can be isolated and targeted in standing practice , specifically thighs and shoulders , but other areas as well.
The end goal being that our back is straight and we are as relaxed as we can be in our Wing Chun stance.

When you say motionless while moving in your stance I think you may mean excessive upper body movement as you are stepping or kicking.
Things such as leaning before you move in , or shoulder movement when kicking.
Basically , it takes a lot of practice in front of a mirror by initiating your stepping from the waist while keeping your back straight.
Similarly with kicking , practice "leg raising" raise each leg alternatively while in your stance in front of the mirror.
Try to minimize any movement of the upper body as you raise the leg , specifically the shoulders.
Eventually you get to the stage where there is hardly any movement at all.


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## Siunimtao (May 20, 2012)

Yes, Nothing to do with moving, SNT stance, Motionless Standing is very hard to obtain/maintain, Yes it involves Tei gong,
So can you Stand very very Still in your stance? if so what do you use? or how do you maintain it?


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## mook jong man (May 21, 2012)

Siunimtao said:


> Yes, Nothing to do with moving, SNT stance, Motionless Standing is very hard to obtain/maintain, Yes it involves Tei gong,
> So can you Stand very very Still in your stance? if so what do you use? or how do you maintain it?



Except for the slight internal contraction , you have to try and relax every part of your body.
Even when you think you are relaxed , try and relax some more.
Not only the muscles , but the actual joints themselves , the less friction around your joints the more powerful you will become.
When the spine is relaxed and straight it is called making the spine "Sing".
Mentally I am visualizing force flowing up my spine to the top of my head.

A lot of the fidgeting around that people do while doing the form or practicing standing is excess nervous energy , you just have to let all that go and try and sink down into your stance and relax as much as you can.
Recognising that you are tense in the first place and identifying the location is another difficulty.


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## Tez3 (May 21, 2012)

mook jong man said:


> Except for the slight internal contraction , you have to try and relax every part of your body.
> Even when you think you are relaxed , try and relax some more.
> Not only the muscles , but the actual joints themselves , the less friction around your joints the more powerful you will become.
> When the spine is relaxed and straight it is called making the spine "Sing".
> ...



This sounds wonderful! is it something you can only be taught by WC practicioners or only do in WC?


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## Siunimtao (May 21, 2012)

mook jong man said:


> Except for the slight internal contraction , you have to try and relax every part of your body.
> Even when you think you are relaxed , try and relax some more.
> Not only the muscles , but the actual joints themselves , the less friction around your joints the more powerful you will become.
> When the spine is relaxed and straight it is called making the spine "Sing".
> ...




There shouldnt be any internal contractions, if there is its from Splinel alignment, once you have the spine straight you will be still as a post,
You have the right idea but i believe your missing the main concept,


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## mograph (May 21, 2012)

Tez3 said:


> This sounds wonderful! is it something you can only be taught by WC practicioners or only do in WC?


 This actually sounds like Zhan Zhuang. It's the foundation of Yiquan practice but it's also applicable to any martial art, to answer your question.


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## mook jong man (May 21, 2012)

Siunimtao said:


> There shouldnt be any internal contractions, if there is its from Splinel alignment, once you have the spine straight you will be still as a post,
> You have the right idea but i believe your missing the main concept,



You do realize that "Tei gong" is the slight contraction of the anal sphincter don't you?
It locks the upper and lower body together and facilitates the concentration needed to develop "Nim Lik".


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## mook jong man (May 21, 2012)

Tez3 said:


> This sounds wonderful! is it something you can only be taught by WC practicioners or only do in WC?



Relaxed muscles are not unique to Wing Chun.
But the way they are used in circular structures to both generate and overcome force with support from the Wing Chun stance is unique.

Apart from relaxation of the muscles and joints , other crucial factors like angle of the arms and proper focusing of both physical and mental force play an important role.

An experienced instructor will be able to identify areas where you are carrying tension either just by looking at you or usually a quick touch on the shoulder , chest or front of the thigh.


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## Xue Sheng (May 21, 2012)

So if I am reading this all correctly this is all about "Stance training" which is part of just about every CMA out there. And to be honest I tend to look at it the same way a Xingyi sifu of mine does. IF there is joint pain you need to adjust if it is muscle pain... I don't want to hear about it so just shut up and stand.

Basically it is rather common in CMA and not all that hard, it just takes time.


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## wtxs (May 21, 2012)

Siunimtao said:


> There shouldnt be any internal contractions, if there is its from Splinel alignment, once you have the spine straight you will be still as a post,
> *You have the right idea but i believe your missing the main concept*,



Please enlighten us old dogs.


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## Siunimtao (May 21, 2012)

mograph said:


> This actually sounds like Zhan Zhuang. It's the foundation of Yiquan practice but it's also applicable to any martial art, to answer your question.




Yes this is a key component to Chinese martial arts including Taai chi as well,

MJM

anal what? yes another key is the slight lift of this area, But it is only part or the picture, you can only get the spine straight with the use of mind force, and this component is unique to Wing Chun,


Im not about to Give up my findings from years of specialised SNT training, if you know you know, if you dont
your miles away from mastering SNT

WTXS

Concentrated Mind Force, Like that of the suns rays through a magnifing Glass,


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## Xue Sheng (May 21, 2012)

It is a part of Xingyiquan, certain styles of Baguazhang and some styles of Taijiquan.

It is also part of Bajiquan and Changquan as well and multiple other styles of CMA


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## Siunimtao (May 21, 2012)

Xue Sheng said:


> It is a part of Xingyiquan, certain styles of Baguazhang and some styles of Taijiquan.
> 
> It is also part of Bajiquan and Changquan as well and multiple other styles of CMA



Then you could share the main Concept to obtaining  Motionless in the stance?


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## Xue Sheng (May 21, 2012)

Siunimtao said:


> Then you could share the main Concept to obtaining  Motionless in the stance?




Already did post #11


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## wtxs (May 21, 2012)

Siunimtao said:


> MJM
> 
> anal what? yes another key is the slight lift of this area, But it is only part or the picture, you can only get the spine straight with the use of mind force, and this component is unique to Wing Chun,
> 
> ...



Unique to WC? The concept had been around and practiced for ages, there is no new novel way to accomplish that goal.  Thanks for sharing.


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## Siunimtao (May 21, 2012)

wtxs said:


> Unique to WC? The concept had been around and practiced for ages, there is no new novel way to accomplish that goal. Thanks for sharing.




Yous are all missing the point, This is what seperates Wing Chun from Wing Chun Kung Fu, its Very unique to WC,

Quote-        Others walk the plank, I walk the line,        Ip Man


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## blindsage (May 21, 2012)

I know but you don't, and I'm not gonna tell you. Neiner, neiner.


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## Siunimtao (May 21, 2012)

blindsage said:


> I know but you don't, and I'm not gonna tell you. Neiner, neiner.



You obviously walk the plank,


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## wtxs (May 21, 2012)

Siunimtao said:


> Yous are all missing the point, This is what seperates Wing Chun from Wing Chun Kung Fu, its Very unique to WC,
> 
> Quote-        Others walk the plank, I walk the line,        Ip Man




Please have pity on us senile fools for not getting YOUR point ... sad to think we had the wrong ideas of what WC, Wing Chun or Wing Chun Kung Fu is for the last 40+ years.  Hope you guys/gals don't mind me dragging you'll into this.


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## Siunimtao (May 21, 2012)

wtxs said:


> Please have pity on us senile fools for not getting YOUR point ... sad to think we had the wrong ideas of what WC, Wing Chun or Wing Chun Kung Fu is for the last 40+ years. Hope you guys/gals don't mind me dragging you'll into this.





IP MANS POINT,     gals/guys   lets just ignore Ip Man who ever he is,


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## wtxs (May 21, 2012)

Siunimtao said:


> IP MANS POINT,     gals/guys   lets just ignore Ip Man who ever he is,



Eehhh?  I'm sorry sonny ... tell me again, who ARE you ...


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## Siunimtao (May 21, 2012)

wtxs said:


> Eehhh? I'm sorry sonny ... tell me again, who ARE you ...



40+ years you should have awnsered the simple question of how you maintain Stillness in the Stance,


Im of Christchurch New Zealand, Trained under  Sifu Jenkins  from www.nzwingchun.com


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## Tez3 (May 21, 2012)

I imagine I'm the only one on this thread who doesn't know what 'stillness in the stance' is and I'm assuming it wasn't started to inform me so why start a thread, make some snarky comments and then say you won't say what this 'stillness in the stance'! 
I'm left scratching my head in puzzled amusement at the OP.


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## Siunimtao (May 21, 2012)

Tez3 said:


> I imagine I'm the only one on this thread who doesn't know what 'stillness in the stance' is and I'm assuming it wasn't started to inform me so why start a thread, make some snarky comments and then say you won't say what this 'stillness in the stance'!
> I'm left scratching my head in puzzled amusement at the OP.



I was Testing the Talent out there, No one has a idea , and im not suprised,


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## jks9199 (May 21, 2012)

Siunimtao said:


> I was Testing the Talent out there, No one has a idea , and im not suprised,



So... share.  What's the deal?  Can you explain how this stillness will help in Wing Chun?


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## Tez3 (May 21, 2012)

Siunimtao said:


> I was Testing the Talent out there, No one has idea so i rest my case,




Okay, now I'm on firm ground. 'Testing the ground' isn't in the spirit of the 'friendly marital arts conversations' we like to have around here, we like to discuss and learn things not throw down challenges to see how much anyone knows, it isn't friendly, it isn't respectful and it often leaves egg on the face when you find people do know more than you or won't play your games. It's also against the rules here. I don't practice WC but I was interested in the title and wanted to learn some more, what I learnt however was that someone thinks they know it all and they think no one else does, that's a shame because I actually wanted to know about the techniques not read posts putting others down. The other posters I know from other threads and I have respect for their views especially when it's their art! So now you've fed your ego and think you are the king of the hill perhaps you might like to reread the rules for here and start a more respectful thread...or not bother at all with us.


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## blindsage (May 21, 2012)

Siunimtao said:


> You obviously walk the plank,



And a nani nani boo boo. Haha, I'm cooler than you are.


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## Steve (May 21, 2012)

Siunimtao said:


> You obviously walk the plank,



Johnny Cash walked the line.  


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Xue Sheng (May 21, 2012)

Siunimtao said:


> I was Testing the Talent out there, No one has a idea , and im not suprised,




OK, I'll play

Let us start here...define stillness


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## Siunimtao (May 21, 2012)

didnt mean to offend anyone,  If one was a true Wing chuner then they would have clicked straight away,  The people who  know what im talking about
wont post cause its the very high end of SNT,  and who have worked hard to achieve it, and are not willing to give it up and neither am i,

Im not looking down on anybody here, i only see level,


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## oaktree (May 21, 2012)

I can not speak for Wing Chun but stillness in standing practice isn't really a secret in Chinese internal arts. Its finally getting it that takes time with practice.

There are some concepts that are important in performing standing meditation correctly such as relaxing, rooting, sinking, alignment, letting go. 
 Alot of it is not easy to express with words but having the teacher guide you to getting the right feeling is what is important.

Anyway just my opinion.


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## Xue Sheng (May 21, 2012)

Siunimtao said:


> didnt mean to offend anyone,  If one was a true Wing chuner then they would have clicked straight away,  The people who  know what im talking about
> wont post cause its the very high end of SNT,  and who have worked hard to achieve it, and are not willing to give it up and neither am i,
> 
> Im not looking down on anybody here, i only see level,



Nah... that's just avoidance........ I'm still waiting

Let us start here...define stillness


Any true CMA person will be able to answer that one


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## mook jong man (May 21, 2012)

Standing practice is not unique to Wing Chun , but the Wing Chun stance and method of generating force is.
One of the meanings of Siu Nim Tau is "Sense from the brain" , with correct and diligent practice of Siu Nim Tau we begin to develop this sense from the brain.

This force is called "Nim Lik" (mind force) this type of force requires three main components to work properly , the correct Wing Chun stance , "Tei gong"(slight contraction of the muscles surrounding the anus) and relaxed muscles.

Strength is not required in Wing Chun because this type of force does not come from muscular strength , it comes from the brain.
"Nim Lik" stabilizes the Wing Chun structures so that even while the muscles are relaxed they will not collapse under heavy pressure from an outside source.
The only way to cultivate this force is via the vehicle of Siu Nim Tau practice.

By the way SUINIMTAO you don't have any secrets , because there are no secrets , only disciplined consistent training.

Just for the record I was trained by Master Jim Fung who also possessed "Nim Lik", he was the top student of Sigung Tsui Seung Tin.

It is Tsui Seung Tin's method you are espousing , he is known for teaching the internal method of Wing Chun.
What you are taking about is nothing new to me , and nothing that has not been discussed here in the past at great length with other people on this board.


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## Siunimtao (May 21, 2012)

mook jong man said:


> Standing practice is not unique to Wing Chun , but the Wing Chun stance and method of generating force is.
> One of the meanings of Siu Nim Tau is "Sense from the brain" , with correct and diligent practice of Siu Nim Tau we begin to develop this sense from the brain.
> 
> This force is called "Nim Lik" (mind force) this type of force requires three main components to work properly , the correct Wing Chun stance , "Tei gong"(slight contraction of the muscles surrounding the anus) and relaxed muscles.
> ...



Yes that is the protocol,  I know its commen knowlage thoughout our lingage,   But theres a fine line between proforming in correctly and not,
You Know all this yet can not tell me the basic princible of Standing stillmor how you MAINTAIN it,


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## mook jong man (May 22, 2012)

Siunimtao said:


> Yes that is the protocol,  I know its commen knowlage thoughout our lingage,   But theres a fine line between proforming in correctly and not,
> You Know all this yet can not tell me the basic princible of Standing stillmor how you MAINTAIN it,



You see this is the type of crap I hate about chinese martial arts , people try to complicate things and make them sound all mysterious.
Trying to make something very simple sound very complex in some sort of bid to put themselves on a pedestal.

When Sigung teaches he doesn't rave on about stillness , he just says Tei Gong , back straight , relax , focus to the centreline.
THATS IT !!!

The basic principle of standing still is to RELAX and CONCENTRATE , its no friggin secret.

This is an excerpt from the man himself.
"In order to be successful , one must be able to relax the muscle of the whole body , to infuse the spirit into the spine so that it is maintained straight , to contract the anus , and to concentrate the mind during the training.

It is not easy to tell if the learner is correct by just looking at the figure.
When one is getting towards successful, he begins to feel the existence of "Force of Idea".
If he has great belief that he possesses the "Force of Idea" and has really given up the exerting of force in his moves , he has achieved the state of complete relaxation".

So stop complicating things and acting like some sort of guru who holds the only true path to enlightenment.


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## Siunimtao (May 22, 2012)

mook jong man said:


> You see this is the type of crap I hate about chinese martial arts , people try to complicate things and make them sound all mysterious.
> Trying to make something very simple sound very complex in some sort of bid to put themselves on a pedestal.
> 
> When Sigung teaches he doesn't rave on about stillness , he just says Tei Gong , back straight , relax , focus to the centreline.
> ...






That sounds about right, Dont disagree with that,

Sooooo... tell me how does one use the mind concentration to focus towards the centerline? 

to infuse the spirit into the spine so that it is MAINTAINED STRAIGHT  (and still)



Does Connect The Dots mean anything to you or any body else?


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## Tez3 (May 22, 2012)

Siunimtao said:


> That sounds about right, Dont disagree with that,
> 
> Sooooo... tell me how does one use the mind concentration to focus towards the centerline?
> 
> ...



No it doesn't.

Look, you have people who are interested in your style, who wish to learn more about it even if they don't practice it and all anyone is getting is this pseudo mystical stuff with overtones of 'grasshopperitis'. You aren't the grandmaster and the people here certainly aren't your students so can't you just type good English? If it's secret keep it secret, if not have a friendly discussion.


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## Domino (May 22, 2012)

Great you're getting involved but you're not going to make your time here useful testing people out. 
The dots might mean the various points to attack on the centre line of our opponent, head to toe. I'm sick of the guessing games zzzzzz


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## Xue Sheng (May 22, 2012)

Siunimtao said:


> Yes that is the protocol,  I know its commen knowlage thoughout our lingage,   But theres a fine line between proforming in correctly and not,
> You Know all this yet can not tell me the basic princible of Standing stillmor how you MAINTAIN it,



You ask questions and want them answered yrt you will not answer mine....interesting

Define stillness


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## Domino (May 22, 2012)

Zhan zhuang


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## mook jong man (May 22, 2012)

Siunimtao said:


> That sounds about right, Dont disagree with that,
> 
> Sooooo... tell me how does one use the mind concentration to focus towards the centerline?
> 
> ...



I think you've been watching too many Bat Man movies champ , you're starting to sound like the Riddler.

Riddle me this.
If you've got all the answers , why do you keep asking so many bloody questions?


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## Steve (May 22, 2012)

Siunimtao said:


> Does Connect The Dots mean anything to you or any body else?


It does to me.  I know exactly what you mean.  But... how can I know for sure if YOU know what it REALLY means?


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## Steve (May 22, 2012)

Xue Sheng said:


> You ask questions and want them answered yrt you will not answer mine....interesting
> 
> Define stillness


It's because he doesn't know.  Don't you guys see it?  He's not "testing" us.  He's trying to get you guys to reveal the higher level secrets of Wing Chun to him before he's ready.  My advice to the OP is to relax and when your sifu thinks you're ready, he'll share with you the information you need to know.  And when you fully understand the answers, you'll truly be the Last Dragon.


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## Tez3 (May 22, 2012)

Me, I'd settle for just learning how to relax when training at the appropriate times...which I don't know when they are!


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## wtxs (May 22, 2012)

Siunimtao said:


> 40+ years you should have awnsered the simple question of how you maintain Stillness in the Stance. Im of Christchurch New Zealand, Trained under  Sifu Jenkins  from www.nzwingchun.com



Indeed I had and others had also ... judging by the trash you've posted, you have not.  Does you Sifu has any idea that you are representing his school by playing the mouth piece role?



Siunimtao said:


> Yous are all missing the point, This is what *seperates Wing Chun from Wing Chun Kung Fu*, its Very unique to WC.



I'm very impressed with your vest knowledge, I have no idea there is an distinction between Wing Chun and Wing Chun Kung Fu, thanks for teaching this old dog some thing new.


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## Siunimtao (May 22, 2012)

Steve said:


> It does to me. I know exactly what you mean. But... how can I know for sure if YOU know what it REALLY means?




If theres Four of them Your a Genius,

To Clear things up, I no longer belong to that School, I Trained there, 2nd Define Stilness? MAINTAINING a Straigth Back and motionless,
Not one millimeter of movement,

So Many Questions eh, Ive Mastered SNT and was seeing if anyone else here has, I should have Just Asked if anyone can connect the dots, 
 Joints are involved,, it forms a Shape /Structure

No Guessing Game, If you guys were Ranked On how many posts your made You would be Masters, But we all know, there is no Grading system in WC, just added ones as Westerners Like to say, I got a Black belt, woopte do!


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## Tez3 (May 22, 2012)

Siunimtao said:


> If theres Four of them Your a Genius,
> 
> To Clear things up, I no longer belong to that School, I Trained there, 2nd Define Stilness? MAINTAINING a Straigth Back and *motionless,
> Not one millimeter of movement*,
> ...



Should one breathe do you think?


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## wtxs (May 22, 2012)

Siunimtao said:


> , Ive Mastered SNT and was seeing if anyone else here has



I swear Mac Davis wrote this song just for you, my Sir SNT Master ... have an mirror in front of you while enjoying this video.


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## yak sao (May 22, 2012)

Tez3 said:


> Should one breathe do you think?




Nah...breathing's for amateurs. Once you accend to a higher plane, stuff like oxygen's no longer necessary


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## Steve (May 22, 2012)

Siunimtao said:


> If theres Four of them Your a Genius,


Well, thank you.  Not everyone appreciates my intellect as they should.





> To Clear things up, I no longer belong to that School, I Trained there


That's a shame.  How long did you train under Sifu Jenkins?  





> , 2nd Define Stilness? MAINTAINING a Straigth Back and motionless,
> Not one millimeter of movement,


Have you ever fired a rifle?  





> So Many Questions eh, Ive Mastered SNT and was seeing if anyone else here has, I should have Just Asked if anyone can connect the dots,
> Joints are involved,, it forms a Shape /Structure


Many here have connected many dots.  Speaking for myself only, I've been connecting many dots.  Perhaps not the dots you intend, but well....





> No Guessing Game, If you guys were Ranked On how many posts your made You would be Masters, But we all know, there is no Grading system in WC, just added ones as Westerners Like to say, I got a Black belt, woopte do!


I'm a black belt in crazy.  Belts, though, were created by a little Japanese guy.  Can't blame Westerners for everything.


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## oaktree (May 22, 2012)

Hi Siunimtao,



> MAINTAINING a Straigth Back and motionless,
> Not one millimeter of movement,


 People can stand straight as in *standing attention *with the back straight and motionless they may appear in stillness *externally. *
The expression *"scared straight" *implys a posture that is perfectly motionless and straight but the mind is not in stillness.
The back should be straight *but not at cost of creating tension*. If you do Zhan zhuang long enough the body does move because tension is being released, the body is trying to achieve homostatsis, as the body relaxes deeper the lower spine and hips and kua "drop" the body sinks down, the mind become still and when the mind is still and the body is at harmony with it the Qi flows through the jingluo and the Shen can manifest.

But that is my experience with it and my opinion.


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## mook jong man (May 22, 2012)

Don't give this dude anymore oxygen.
Steve is right , he's just fishing around for information.
He didn't even know the correct meaning of "Tei Gong" and if he was really from my lineage he would have known that.


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## blindsage (May 22, 2012)

mook jong man said:


> Don't give this dude anymore oxygen.
> Steve is right , he's just fishing around for information.
> He didn't even know the correct meaning of "Tei Gong" and if he was really from my lineage he would have known that.


He doesn't need to claim your lineage Mook, he mastered SNT.  He is now one of the true Daoist Immortals.  Your doubt just proves his status.


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## mook jong man (May 22, 2012)

oaktree said:


> Hi Siunimtao,
> 
> People can stand straight as in *standing attention *with the back straight and motionless they may appear in stillness *externally. *
> The expression *"scared straight" *implys a posture that is perfectly motionless and straight but the mind is not in stillness.
> ...



Oaktree , in Wing Chun it is more of a mental thing.
Obviously we can't physically have the spine straight , because our spines are curved .

We are trying to have our vertebrae stacked on top of each other right up to the head , so that the postural muscles can be switched off and relax as much as possible.
In effect we want the skeletal system to be supporting the weight of the body , not postural muscles.
It is primarily a mental visualisation that we use , but you are right , the muscles surrounding the spine have to be neutral and relaxed.

Lets just cut through all the crap , these guys do a better job than me of explaining the stance as taught by Tsui Seung Tin.

[video=youtube_share;6eFQsbrhMEo]http://youtu.be/6eFQsbrhMEo[/video]


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## Siunimtao (May 22, 2012)

mook jong man said:


> Don't give this dude anymore oxygen.
> Steve is right , he's just fishing around for information.
> He didn't even know the correct meaning of "Tei Gong" and if he was really from my lineage he would have known that.





Funny, You havnt got a clue, Oaktree Sounds like he knows his **** and he doesnt even do wing chun,

Tei Gong? I like to reword it as Daigong, (granery Storage, Earth Storage) You become Rooted From the Ground,

3 words No ones said here that my Sifu use, ***** U* P****, These are the ones i abide by,

And Tell me Master Woodcock ,when do you  use tei gong??

My Tei Gong is On every minute im Awake, Not just Wing Chun Training,


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## mook jong man (May 22, 2012)

Settle down mate , you keep telling us you've mastered Siu Nim Tau.

But it doesn't seem to have helped you any in mastering your own emotions has it?


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## blindsage (May 22, 2012)

Siunimtao said:


> Funny, You havnt got a clue, Oaktree Sounds like he knows his **** and he doesnt even do wing chun,
> 
> Tei Gong? I like to reword it as Daigong, (granery Storage, Earth Storage) You become Rooted From the Ground,
> 
> ...


Funny, a few post ago you were grudgingly giving Mook credit for his understanding, but as soon as he started calling out your BS you immediately turned on him.  Methinks he's not the one missing a clue.  But good luck with that.


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## Tez3 (May 22, 2012)

Siunimtao said:


> Funny, You havnt got a clue, Oaktree Sounds like he knows his **** and he doesnt even do wing chun,
> 
> Tei Gong? I like to reword it as Daigong, (*granery *Storage, Earth Storage) You become Rooted From the Ground,
> 
> ...




We have places here where we store our grans, they are called old peoples homes.


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## Domino (May 23, 2012)

This is the newest species of troll I have seen. Amazing.
We have no time for elitist here.


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## Xue Sheng (May 23, 2012)

Siunimtao said:


> If theres Four of them Your a Genius,
> 
> To Clear things up, I no longer belong to that School, I Trained there, 2nd Define Stilness? MAINTAINING a Straigth Back and motionless,
> Not one millimeter of movement,
> ...



There are no grading systems in Traditional Chinese Martial Arts and there is a standing practice of one sort or another in just about every Traditional Chinese Martial Arts

Now then let me give you a hint since you appear to not know the answer, as I suspected...... "MAINTAINING a Straigth Back and motionless, Not one millimeter of movement"... is not stillness. Standing still is not stillness and if you believe it is you have much to learn my young padawan. 

One more comment, as soon as you "Claim" to be a master...all learning stops....you stagnate...... you are done....

so endeth the lesson


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## mograph (May 23, 2012)

To increase the signal-to-noise ratio on this thread, I've clicked the "ignore" button for one of the participants.

That said, may I offer my interpretations of some terms?

"Stillness in motion": a calm mind within a moving body. This leads to smooth motion as well as a flexible and quick response.

"Motion in stillness": a kind of active standing, where the practitioner is not moving visibly, but is adjusting the body in tiny increments to achieve optimum balance between self-support and relaxation. The method and goal depends on the discipline. Sometimes visualization is involved. 

I wouldn't say that stillness is an end in itself; it is more like a gateway.

Of course, that's my opinion.


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## wtxs (May 23, 2012)

Siunimtao said:


> I no longer belong to that School





wtxs said:


> Does you Sifu has any idea that you are representing his school by playing the mouth piece role?



I guess that answered my question.


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## Siunimtao (May 23, 2012)

mograph said:


> To increase the signal-to-noise ratio on this thread, I've clicked the "ignore" button for one of the participants.
> 
> That said, may I offer my interpretations of some terms?
> 
> ...



That is a very Good description, couldnt agree more,

when i Say Ive Mastered SNT, I Mean I Know Extactlly What im doing, Wing Chun Is My Life, i live by it,
Its on every day as it becomes a way of life, concious mind,:uhyeah:,


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## Xue Sheng (May 23, 2012)

Siunimtao said:


> That is a very Good description, couldnt agree more,



And yet it is nothing at all similar to what you said....How interesting


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## Siunimtao (May 23, 2012)

Xue Sheng said:


> And yet it is nothing at all similar to what you said....How interesting




I wasnt talking about that subject,  nevermind pal,


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## Xue Sheng (May 23, 2012)

Siunimtao said:


> I wasnt talking about that subject,  nevermind pal,



Again....how interesting... the thread (your thread) is about stillness.... mograph was talking about stillness and yet you say you are responding to something other than stillness... so what exactly are you agreeing with?

and just so you know....The way of stillness anger is not


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## Siunimtao (May 23, 2012)

Anger??? Never had any, I was talking about MAINTAINING The Stance, Lop Nim etc, Yes STILLNESS , Theres alot of moving around to get in this position but once you do, Its Awesome, Only the dedicated will reach thi far, 
Its the secret to obtaining Power beyond belief,


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## blindsage (May 23, 2012)

WAIT!!!  Shhh, don't tell us, you might give away the secrets you've worked so hard for.


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## Siunimtao (May 23, 2012)

mook jong man said:


> Oaktree , in Wing Chun it is more of a mental thing.
> Obviously we can't physically have the spine straight , because our spines are curved .
> 
> We are trying to have our vertebrae stacked on top of each other right up to the head , so that the postural muscles can be switched off and relax as much as possible.
> ...


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## Siunimtao (May 23, 2012)

blindsage said:


> WAIT!!! Shhh, don't tell us, you might give away the secrets you've worked so hard for.



Ive Basicly put it on a plate for you!


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## Tez3 (May 23, 2012)

Siunimtao said:


> mook jong man said:
> 
> 
> > Oaktree , in Wing Chun it is more of a mental thing.
> ...


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## mook jong man (May 24, 2012)

Tez3 said:


> Siunimtao said:
> 
> 
> > why?
> ...


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## Siunimtao (May 24, 2012)

mook jong man said:


> Tez3 said:
> 
> 
> > He probably means tucking the tail bone under and the tilting of the pelvis.
> ...


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## cwk (May 24, 2012)

Don't know if this is completely relevant but-I've just started a blog and one of the first essays i wrote was on my lineages stance called "stances-the root of your power". It was written with my students in mind but some of you might find it interesting.
 I was going to post it separately but as we're on the subject of stances.... 
if anyone is interested here's the link-
http://chogawingchunthailand.wordpress.com/recent-posts/
cheers.


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## mook jong man (May 24, 2012)

cwk said:


> Don't know if this is completely relevant but-I've just started a blog and one of the first essays i wrote was on my lineages stance called "stances-the root of your power". It was written with my students in mind but some of you might find it interesting.
> I was going to post it separately but as we're on the subject of stances....
> if anyone is interested here's the link-
> http://chogawingchunthailand.wordpress.com/recent-posts/
> cheers.



Nice read, good stuff mate.


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## mograph (May 24, 2012)

cwk said:


> if anyone is interested here's the link-
> http://chogawingchunthailand.wordpress.com/recent-posts/
> cheers.


Looks good to me! I like how you cover certain mistakes that might be made, such as gripping the toes too tightly. Too many givers of instructions ignore the ways in which an instruction might be misinterpreted. I look forward to more of your posts. :asian:


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## Xue Sheng (May 24, 2012)

Siunimtao said:


> Anger??? Never had any, I was talking about MAINTAINING The Stance, Lop Nim etc, Yes STILLNESS , Theres alot of moving around to get in this position but once you do, Its Awesome, Only the dedicated will reach thi far,
> Its the secret to obtaining Power beyond belief,



There is something you said in the above post that tells me, ir anyone who has done serious stance training, you have no idea what you are talking about or you are trying to impress people here on MT that you are some great master when in fact you are not. Either way I am done playing... have fun storming the castle


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## Xue Sheng (May 24, 2012)

cwk said:


> Don't know if this is completely relevant but-I've just started a blog and one of the first essays i wrote was on my lineages stance called "stances-the root of your power". It was written with my students in mind but some of you might find it interesting.
> I was going to post it separately but as we're on the subject of stances....
> if anyone is interested here's the link-
> http://chogawingchunthailand.wordpress.com/recent-posts/
> cheers.



Good stuff, thanks for the link

And I find 





> &#8220;Wing Chun is simple, but definitely not easy&#8221;


 incredibly intriguing and why I always seem to find myself drawn back to Wing Chun


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## blindsage (May 24, 2012)

mook jong man said:


> Tez3 said:
> 
> 
> > He probably means tucking the tail bone under and the tilting of the pelvis.
> ...


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## wtxs (May 24, 2012)

Siunimtao said:


> Ive Mastered SNT and was seeing if anyone else here has





Siunimtao said:


> when i Say Ive Mastered SNT, I Mean I Know Extactlly What im doing





blindsage said:


> You would think that's what he meant?



He hasn't the foggiest idea of what he's been saying.

You know ... I got the weirdest feeling we had been through this before ... 

:hmm::hmm::hmm: that's it ... CoffeeRoc ...


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## yak sao (May 24, 2012)

wtxs said:


> He hasn't the foggiest idea of what he's been saying.
> 
> You know ... I got the weirdest feeling we had been through this before ...
> 
> :hmm::hmm::hmm: that's it ... CoffeeRoc ...




AAAGGGGHHH....what are you doing????? Don't say his name aloud or he'll re appear!!!


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## Siunimtao (May 24, 2012)

Why?  Ill tell you why,    To direct Incoming Force to the ground,    the curve in your back when facing someone is like this   (     .

(    This is the part of your structre that will Go like this <     cause it cant handle or absorb  Force to the ground cause it folds or you step back etc,



anatomy training?   You got to be joking, Good on ya mate,


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## Siunimtao (May 24, 2012)

Xue Sheng said:


> There is something you said in the above post that tells me, ir anyone who has done serious stance training, you have no idea what you are talking about or you are trying to impress people here on MT that you are some great master when in fact you are not. Either way I am done playing... have fun storming the castle



Do you think i care?


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## Tez3 (May 24, 2012)

Siunimtao said:


> Why? Ill tell you why, To direct Incoming Force to the ground, the curve in your back when facing someone is like this ( .
> 
> ( This is the part of your structre that will Go like this < cause it cant handle or absorb Force to the ground cause it folds or you step back etc,
> 
> ...




Bollocks.


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## Siunimtao (May 24, 2012)

Tez3, you thought really hard about that one didnt you,    Dont Believe me then,    The Jokes on you Pal,


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## Tez3 (May 24, 2012)

Siunimtao said:


> Tez3, you thought really hard about that one didnt you, Dont Believe me then, The Jokes on you Pal,




No thought at all :ultracool


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## Xue Sheng (May 24, 2012)

Siunimtao said:


> Do you think i care?



you sure would like us all to believe you don't


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## Siunimtao (May 24, 2012)

Xue Sheng said:


> you sure would like us all to believe you don't


 

Xue Sheng,  Tell me have you learned to Walk again?


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## mograph (May 24, 2012)

Don't take the bait, lads. Stay focused.


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## Siunimtao (May 24, 2012)

mograph said:


> Don't take the bait, lads. Stay focused.




Im not Fishing,    You guys crack me up,   oh great Wing chun know it alls,   nothing for me to learn on this ******** site,  
Come on moderator,   Ban me,  oh wait your  WC Forum hasnt had so many hits  before I posted on here, 

Just when you had some talent who was willing to share,  %-}


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## yak sao (May 24, 2012)

Siunimtao said:


> Im not Fishing, You guys crack me up, oh great Wing chun know it alls, nothing for me to learn on this ******** site,
> Come on moderator, Ban me, oh wait your WC Forum hasnt had so many hits before I posted on here,
> 
> Just when you had some talent who was willing to share, %-}



I wish you would share. I'm sure you can bring a lot to the table, but all I've heard from you so far are questions. Not sincere questions, but smarmy questions.
So, if you have insight into SNT, WC, whatever , let's hear it and stop with the games.


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## mook jong man (May 24, 2012)

Things are getting confused here.
If we are talking about the "back" then from a visual perspective it will look straight.

In the correct Wing Chun stance we aim to have a straight line going from the shoulders to the knees.
An observer would see that the persons back is straight.

If we are talking about the spine itself , then internally we know that the spine is naturally made up of curves , that cannot be made to be straight.
But externally the posture will look upright and straight.

Mentally we are visualizing the spine as a straight line.

My Sifu used to make this analogy about the back being straight in Wing Chun.
If you hold a plastic ruler vertically on a table and it is straight , then it can hold a great deal of weight.

If however there is a bend in the ruler , then the structural integrity will be weakened and it will start to collapse.
The Wing Chun stance works similarly.


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## Steve (May 24, 2012)

Siunimtao said:


> Im not Fishing,    You guys crack me up,   oh great Wing chun know it alls,   nothing for me to learn on this ******** site,
> Come on moderator,   Ban me,  oh wait your  WC Forum hasnt had so many hits  before I posted on here,
> 
> Just when you had some talent who was willing to share,  %-}



I think you're awesome.   You googled just enough vocabulary to get things moving, but not enough to keep it going for more than a few posts.  

If I can make a friendly suggestion, be nice and remember that this is a friendly place.  If you really are knowledgeable in wc, you'll fit right in if you lighten up just a little.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Siunimtao (May 24, 2012)

yak sao said:


> I wish you would share. I'm sure you can bring a lot to the table, but all I've heard from you so far are questions. Not sincere questions, but smarmy questions.
> So, if you have insight into SNT, WC, whatever , let's hear it and stop with the games.




My Questions are intended to get you thinking,   use the mind,   no more games,


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## Siunimtao (May 24, 2012)

mook jong man said:


> Things are getting confused here.
> If we are talking about the "back" then from a visual perspective it will look straight.
> 
> In the correct Wing Chun stance we aim to have a straight line going from the shoulders to the knees.
> ...




Your Close, My lower Back sure feels straight when i touch it, I believe you could hold a Ruler to it and it would show so, 
Dont think so much about the spine, it will self align once you get your stance Corrected,


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## Siunimtao (May 24, 2012)

Steve said:


> I think you're awesome. You googled just enough vocabulary to get things moving, but not enough to keep it going for more than a few posts.
> 
> If I can make a friendly suggestion, be nice and remember that this is a friendly place. If you really are knowledgeable in wc, you'll fit right in if you lighten up just a little.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk



Thanks Steve,    ill try and lighten up and have mature Conversations from now on,


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## Bob Hubbard (May 25, 2012)

Siunimtao said:


> Im not Fishing,    You guys crack me up,   oh great Wing chun know it alls,   nothing for me to learn on this ******** site,
> Come on moderator,   Ban me,  oh wait your  WC Forum hasnt had so many hits  before I posted on here,
> 
> Just when you had some talent who was willing to share,  %-}



Your wish is granted.


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## Jenna (May 25, 2012)

I think some of you appear very easily riled.. easy to rattle.. whatever.. he is gone now


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## Tez3 (May 25, 2012)

Jenna said:


> I think some of you appear very easily riled.. easy to rattle.. whatever.. he is gone now




I don't think anyone was riled, I sensed a great deal of amusement over an imposter trying to wind people up. I doubt anyone took him seriously.

However I find this an interesting subject even though I don't do WC. I hope that we might carry on a little with explanations in layman's terms that can help all of us, just bascis things that we could all do not just for martial arts but perhaps in everyday things?


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## Domino (May 25, 2012)

Someone who knows but will not share just get ridiculed, whats the point in declaring you know something?
And 'no more games' was my line. zzzz


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## Steve (May 25, 2012)

Ah,_ Siunimtao._  You overplayed your hand just a little too long.

For what it's worth, I think he was close to figuring it out... or maybe not.


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## Tez3 (May 25, 2012)

mook jong man said:


> Things are getting confused here.
> If we are talking about the "back" then from a visual perspective it will look straight.
> 
> In the correct Wing Chun stance we aim to have a straight line going from the shoulders to the knees.
> ...



This is interesting, I'm round shouldered and desperate to improve my posture as I don't want to end up looking hunched up like a little old lady! I try to stand upright but when tired, busy or tense I 'hunch' again.


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## Josh Oakley (May 25, 2012)

shoulders up, then back, then down.

Also, back strengthing exercises. 

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


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## mook jong man (May 26, 2012)

Tez3 said:


> This is interesting, I'm round shouldered and desperate to improve my posture as I don't want to end up looking hunched up like a little old lady! I try to stand upright but when tired, busy or tense I 'hunch' again.



Look on the bright side Tez , you will be a hunched up little old lady that can still choke some poor bastard out.

But I can see you are a bit concerned about this , so if you just want the postural benefits of the Wing Chun stance without going and having to learn in a Wing Chun school then you could cheat a little and just practice this for a few minutes everyday.

We won't worry about the position of the feet  too much , because the stance has to be measured out correctly or there will be too much stress on the knee joints.

But the rest of it you can still do.



Stand with your feet shoulder width apart.
Bend your knees slightly , so that your thighs are relaxed and springy.
Pull both your fists back in line with your chest like in the photo ( just doing this causes the chest to open up , shoulders to go back and the back to straighten) keep fists relaxed not clenched tight.
Tuck your tailbone under and tilt your pelvis up ( but not to the point where your quads and glutes tense up.
Try and relax and maintain this posture , visualise a string connected to the top of your head and the string is drawing your head and spine upwards , practice for a few minutes each day.


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## Tez3 (May 26, 2012)

Thank you so much! I shall practice!, I also have to do a new kata Sip Soo which should be easy enough but some of the moves with the shoulders back which should be a normal posture means I have tightness in my shoulders, I really have to work to get them right.
We do this a bit differently but the movements in the middle - two sets of three blocks - are the same and you can where I need to keep my shoulders back as they should be.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oBP3VsE8C8&feature=related


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## mook jong man (May 26, 2012)

Tez3 said:


> Thank you so much! I shall practice!, I also have to do a new kata Sip Soo which should be easy enough but some of the moves with the shoulders back which should be a normal posture means I have tightness in my shoulders, I really have to work to get them right.
> We do this a bit differently but the movements in the middle - two sets of three blocks - are the same and you can where I need to keep my shoulders back as they should be.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oBP3VsE8C8&feature=related



I watched the form Tez , Korean is it?
Can't help you there  , bit outside of my area of expertise I'm afraid.
Keep practicing you'll get there.

Anyway , I've got to get back to watching Eurovision.


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## Tez3 (May 26, 2012)

mook jong man said:


> I watched the form Tez , Korean is it?
> Can't help you there , bit outside of my area of expertise I'm afraid.
> Keep practicing you'll get there.
> 
> Anyway , I've got to get back to watching Eurovision.



Thanks! I'm watching the Giro D'Italia then we have a fight night. 

The kata itself is easy enough, it's a lot of what I already have done, it's just that middle bit, my instructor has threatened to put a Bo staff through my sleeves across my shoulders to make me stand up properly lol!


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## wtxs (May 27, 2012)

yak sao said:


> AAAGGGGHHH....what are you doing????? Don't say his name aloud or he'll re appear!!!



My bad :whip:... I didn't realize there are still people having night mares of him.


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## Triangle (Jun 7, 2012)

[/QUOTE]


Thank you for the Picture,      Sheep-clamping Stance,   Very intresting,


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