# Taiji push hands basics



## blindsage (Jan 12, 2013)

This guy's instruction is great.


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## oaktree (Jan 12, 2013)

Ug you are in the way that girl in the back looks cute. 
  Anyway good points I think more people need to have some one put 
Pressure on them when they go through the forms to understand 
The principles.


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## K-man (Jan 13, 2013)

*blindsage*, I thank you for a most interesting post.

I would be interested in hearing what people think about his explanation of what he is doing.  That is, he talks about putting his mind out etc. 

The 'standing on one leg' move is also interesting.  I've been demonstrating it for some time but have not seen anyone else doing it.  I would be interested in hearing what you experience when you try it, but remember, you don't do it by leaning. 

*Suker*, I've just re-read an old thread from 4 years ago that got quite involved. You may remember it, about a hoax.  This is part of what I was trying to describe back then.
:asian:


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## seasoned (Jan 13, 2013)

I enjoyed the video, as I was able to relate what he was saying pertaining to body mechanics, back to a kata called "Tensho". Thanks for posting......


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## Blaze Dragon (Jan 13, 2013)

K-man said:


> *blindsage*, I thank you for a most interesting post.
> 
> I would be interested in hearing what people think about his explanation of what he is doing.  That is, he talks about putting his mind out etc.
> 
> ...



I like alot of what he is saying and explaining. When we do Taiji at my Kwoon we have the legs and hands reverse, so if the left arm relaxes and yeilds the right arm does the reverse, and the legs are oposite, left arm to right leg, and right arm to left leg. So it was interesting that he was explaining the pressure as being one side of the body like that.

As for the mind part, I completely agree. Where you put your mind makes a big difference I think.

To throw in something that is not related to my kwoon but my personal path, real magic is based upon the principal of all energy follows thought. so putt your mind there energy will follow. 

I've noticed this principal in my taiji practice, such as if you put your mind and intent in you feet and legs and being rooted you can be hard to push over, but if your attention goes up to your head you can be pushed over. at my kwoon we call this dropping your qi. My Sifu demonstrated it to me by having me sink and get in a nice stance and pushing me from the side, and then you just patted the top of my head which distracted me and push again and I lost my sinking.


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## Xue Sheng (Jan 13, 2013)

Very Nice I shall have to look into Byron Zhang and Water Taijiquan

Now add the 13 postures and your good to go (actually he did throw in a couple already)


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## K-man (Jan 13, 2013)

BlazeLeeDragon said:


> .
> As for the mind part, I completely agree. Where you put your mind makes a big difference I think.
> 
> To throw in something that is not related to my kwoon but my personal path, real magic is based upon the principal of all energy follows thought. so putt your mind there energy will follow.
> ...


We work on the the principle that where the mind goes the body follows.      :asian:


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## K-man (Jan 13, 2013)

Here is another video of the same guy.

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=8YSjSKk81OE&desktop_uri=/watch?v=8YSjSKk81OE&gl=GB

(perhaps someone can tell me how to put the actual video in the post  )

We talk about it in slightly different terms in that he talks about keeping the same pressure on the ground as on the arm. I say don't set your feet and don't push with the arm, but the result is the same. The move is generated from the centre which is always moving.     :asian:

Edit. I may as well post part 3.

Notice in particular the guy in the green shirt and the trouble he has until Master Byron tells him to put his mind out. Good stuff!


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## Blaze Dragon (Jan 13, 2013)

K-man said:


> Here is another video of the same guy.
> 
> http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=8YSjSKk81OE&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D8YSjSKk81OE&gl=GB
> 
> ...



This forum seems to work on elements, as in the quote [ ] on each side of quote to start and again with a /quote to end.

so to do a video you would put VIDEO _link here_ /VIDEO just with the brackets on each side of both if that makes sense. If I type it it might try to use it as an element, let me see if I can type it with spaces just of course remove the spaces

[ VIDEO ] _link here_ [ /VIDEO ]

if you go advanced there is an icon you can click for video too.


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## blindsage (Jan 13, 2013)

K-man said:


> *blindsage*, I thank you for a most interesting post.
> 
> I would be interested in hearing what people think about his explanation of what he is doing.  That is, he talks about putting his mind out etc.
> 
> ...


Chen Xiaowang does it frequently in demos, a lot of Taiji teachers do.  I've recently begun to understand this better, taken a while.  My sifu demostrates it sometimes (and has us practice it :uhohh from standing on two legs, have your opponent start pushing and have you root into the the back leg while lifting the front leg and having the upper body diagonal through the leg to the ground.  I think it's more of a Bagua version.  I realize this is kind of difficult description to visualize, but basically it's to demonstrate that you don't have to be standing straight up to have root, as long as you have proper structure you can have root from almost any position.

And when he's talking about putting his mind out, I think he's just talking about intent, one the things the classics talk about all the time.


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## Xue Sheng (Jan 13, 2013)

I have seen some Zhaobao guys to one leg push hands but it was an old video I cannot find on YouTube anymore, you may still find it on Sohu.com


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## oaktree (Jan 13, 2013)

Speaking of baguazhang and pushing and rooting, 
  One exercise we have is to walk circle and have some one
Push you at different directions it is very different feel then
In taiji.


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## Xue Sheng (Jan 13, 2013)

oaktree said:


> Speaking of baguazhang and pushing and rooting,
> One exercise we have is to walk circle and have some one
> Push you at different directions it is very different feel then
> In taiji.



taiji four corner push hands or moving free style might be close


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## Blaze Dragon (Jan 13, 2013)

Xue Sheng said:


> taiji four corner push hands or moving free style might be close



Not sure if I've heard of four corner push hands. We've done the free style before, where we are doing push hands but stepping and walking. It's alot of fun


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## Xue Sheng (Jan 13, 2013)

BlazeLeeDragon said:


> Not sure if I've heard of four corner push hands. We've done the free style before, where we are doing push hands but stepping and walking. It's alot of fun



Free style; Stepping, walking, circling, forward, backwards, sideways and at angles

Four corner is just what it sounds like, going corner to corner to corner to corner in a square you visualize on the floor

Also sideways, 1 step, 3 step, stick and follow drills, etc.


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## K-man (Jan 13, 2013)

blindsage said:


> Chen Xiaowang does it frequently in demos, a lot of Taiji teachers do.  I've recently begun to understand this better, taken a while.  My sifu demostrates it sometimes (and has us practice it :uhohh from standing on two legs, have your opponent start pushing and have you root into the the back leg while lifting the front leg and having the upper body diagonal through the leg to the ground.  I think it's more of a Bagua version.  I realize this is kind of difficult description to visualize, but basically it's to demonstrate that you don't have to be standing straight up to have root, as long as you have proper structure you can have root from almost any position.
> 
> And when he's talking about putting his mind out, I think he's just talking about intent, one the things the classics talk about all the time.


Standing on one leg and having people try to push you over is one of my party 'tricks'. Just that it isn't a trick and it freaks some people especially when they try to do it themselves and get pushed straight over. It's really interesting to hear their explanation as to what makes it possible. Most people actually lean in when they take their foot of the ground and if you step back they fall forward.  It works by sinking your centre and absorbing the energy, not by leaning against the pressure.

I just realised that both you and *Xue* were part of the thread from four years back, I referred to earlier.  I wonder if any of the guys have changed their mind.

:asian:


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## oaktree (Jan 13, 2013)

I haven't seen a circle like motion push hands for chen yet. 
 Is that a traditional set?


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## mook jong man (Jan 13, 2013)

The head of our lineage of Wing Chun , Tsui Seung Tin also does the standing on one leg demonstration .
Except he stands on a set of scales as he is being pushed.
As the person starts pushing harder and harder , Tsui Seung Tin's bodyweight actually increases as he absorbs the force down through his stance and into the floor.


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## Xue Sheng (Jan 13, 2013)

oaktree said:


> I haven't seen a circle like motion push hands for chen yet.
> Is that a traditional set?



It is not circle walking like bagua but it is moving in a cirlce, or any direction for that matter. I do not know if it is in Chen and I have no idea if it is in Traditional Yang that you find in the Yang family today but it is in the Traditional Yang style the comes from Tung Ying Chieh.



K-man said:


> Standing on one leg and having people try to push you over is one of my party 'tricks'. Just that it isn't a trick and it freaks some people especially when they try to do it themselves and get pushed straight over. It's really interesting to hear their explanation as to what makes it possible. Most people actually lean in when they take their foot of the ground and if you step back they fall forward.  It works by sinking your centre and absorbing the energy, not by leaning against the pressure.
> 
> I just realised that both you and *Xue* were part of the thread from four years back, I referred to earlier.  I wonder if any of the guys have changed their mind.
> 
> :asian:



Ahh I don't try and change any ones mind anymore


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## Xue Sheng (Jan 18, 2013)

Various Push hands drills from roughly my lineage, there are others that I have been taught that are dealing more with circles but I cannot find anything on YouTube 

This is Tung Ying Chieh's Grandson who learned from his father Tung Hu Ling. Dong Zeng Chen is the youngest son of Tung Hu Ling, the younger brother of Tung Kai Ying and the father of Alex Dong

What I do is a little different since my sifu was a student of Tung Ying Chieh as was Tung Hu Ling (Tung Ying Chiehs son)

This is the 4 corner drill

Master Dong Taichi Push Hands - Dalu &#33891;&#22686;&#36784;&#24107;&#29238;&#22826;&#26997;&#25512;&#25163;&#22823;&#23653;






Master Dong Push Hands Drill &#33891;&#22686;&#36784;&#24107;&#29238;&#22826;&#26997;&#25512;&#25163;&#32244;&#27861;


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## Dirtymeat (Mar 3, 2013)

Taijiquan push hands is an exercise primarily designed to enhance a player's ability to remain balanced while in contact with an opponent.
Push hands training improves one's ability to disrupt the balance of an opponent by finding where his or her center of gravity is and exploiting it.

Taijiquan push hands a fighting art based on the philosophy of yin and yang finding and using the balance between hardness and softness to overcome one's opponent.


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## K-man (Mar 4, 2013)

Dirtymeat said:


> Taijiquan push hands is an exercise primarily designed to enhance a player's ability to remain balanced while in contact with an opponent.
> Push hands training improves one's ability to disrupt the balance of an opponent by finding where his or her center of gravity is and exploiting it.
> 
> Taijiquan push hands a fighting art based on the philosophy of yin and yang finding and using the balance between hardness and softness to overcome one's opponent.


Good quote! I think I have read it before. 

Could this be it?



> *Tai Chi Push Hands and Wing Chun Sticky Hands:*
> *A Comparison*
> Michael R. Pekor
> 
> ...


Mmmm! I think this is what they call plagiarism!


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## Dirtymeat (Mar 5, 2013)

K-man said:


> Good quote! I think I have read it before.
> 
> Could this be it?
> 
> Mmmm! I think this is what they call plagiarism!



That's close, but not exactly what I said is common knowledge throughout the taijiquan community, and describes push hands in general.

To get this thread back on topic.

I was doing some research and found this http://taichi.snowcron.com/taichi_martial.htm


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## oaktree (Mar 5, 2013)

What k-man put up is what you said as the exact word for word match.

Try like this: taijiquan tuishou is a two man set that helps the practitioners to develop
 Root, structure and taiji principles and theory.  
Tuishou also teaches one to break an opponents structure by yielding and directional
Change. 
Haha now it looks like people copied me.


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