# Question about G.Dillman



## Chizikunbo (May 22, 2005)

Okay, I jsut want to know if it has been proven or disproven if dillman actually did gain a Kyoshi liscense from Taika Seiyu Oyata, or if he is just claiming it which is my guess. Secondly is there a copy of the cert availible to see?
I am just taking this logically. With Dillmans no-touch K.O. and other things like such, I cannot seem to belive he ever got any rank under Taika. In his book "Ryu Te no Michi" Taika Oyata tells alot about his methods, and how he views ki/Chi (a whole chapter about it) and it is opposite to Dillman. Taika clearly states and re-states that you have to strike your opponet to carry out a technique or knowckout, people that claim to do this without touching their opponets are frauds, and only take advantage of people. So please help clear this up. 
Thanks!
Yours in the arts,
--Joshua


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## Aegis (May 22, 2005)

Oyata's own students seem to say "no", he never recieved such a license.  It even seems that Oyata changed his martial art's name and trademarked it to get away from any form of association with Dillman.


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## Chizikunbo (May 22, 2005)

the second half is yes and no, but thanks.
Taika chaned his art to Ryu Te and Trademarked it (Ryu Te TM) as well as Oyata Shin Shu Ho and his assosiation Ryu Te Renmei, because like Dilman, anyone can use Ryukyu Kempo, it is a general term. Ryu Te is a more specific and is much deeper and more meaningfull, because it has more than one meaning. but it was not to simply get away from Dillman, it was to keep peolpe like Dillman from claiming to teach Taika's art, but also because of the meaning and the intorduction of some new things(teachings) the were not taught before the name change.
anywhoo thats that. So Dillman does not claim it anymore?


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## BlackCatBonz (May 22, 2005)

do a search on MT......look for any results that contain RRousselot and Dillman.


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## bignick (May 22, 2005)

I don't think Dillman claims to teach ryukyu kempo anymore either...I think it's something like Dillman Karate or some such....


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## Chizikunbo (May 22, 2005)

thanks all.


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## 47MartialMan (May 22, 2005)

But then agian, vould it be that the two had a "fall-out" and that Oyata attempted to "cut ties" with Dillman?

One of my students and i discussed Dillman to the point my student went to his seminars...all I can say my student was dis-satisfied.


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## Jonathan Randall (May 24, 2005)

47MartialMan said:
			
		

> One of my students and i discussed Dillman to the point my student went to his seminars...all I can say my student was dis-satisfied.


How about a dog and pony show? I can't say that he doesn't provide legitimate training in some areas but most of his fans seem to be of the "true believer" type. However, he obviously has many years in the arts so I hold out the possibility that my personal impressions may be incorrect.


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## Franc0 (May 24, 2005)

I'm curious. Is there ANY video of him attempting to do his "No-Touch" KO's against someone who wasn't a follower? I saw the one tape of the guy who trained with Dillman, and the skeptical news reporter had him attempt it on her, and then on some NHB guys, which both ended in failure. But of course, when he did it on his own students, it worked then  

Franco


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## arnisador (May 24, 2005)

Lots of previous discussion of this; try Search. E.g.:
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5423
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18009
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13613


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## RRouuselot (May 25, 2005)

Chizikunbo said:
			
		

> the second half is yes and no, but thanks.
> Taika chaned his art to Ryu Te and Trademarked it (Ryu Te TM) as well as Oyata Shin Shu Ho and his assosiation Ryu Te Renmei, because like Dilman, anyone can use Ryukyu Kempo, it is a general term. Ryu Te is a more specific and is much deeper and more meaningfull, because it has more than one meaning. but it was not to simply get away from Dillman, it was to keep peolpe like Dillman from claiming to teach Taika's art, but also because of the meaning and the intorduction of some new things(teachings) the were not taught before the name change.
> anywhoo thats that. So Dillman does not claim it anymore?


 
 Not many people in the west used the name Ryukyu Kempo before Mr. Oyata came to the US. True it is a general term but was still fairly unknown. 

 Also true is Mr. Oyata changed the name of his style because he got tired of people trying to associate what they do with what he does. Having been there and seen the transition I can tell you the techniques he teaches now are more advanced than the ones he taught years ago when he was calling it Ryukyu Kempo.



			
				Chizikunbo said:
			
		

> Okay, I jsut want to know if it has been proven or disproven if dillman actually did gain a Kyoshi liscense from Taika Seiyu Oyata, or if he is just claiming it which is my guess. Secondly is there a copy of the cert availible to see?
> I am just taking this logically. With Dillmans no-touch K.O. and other things like such, I cannot seem to belive he ever got any rank under Taika. In his book "Ryu Te no Michi" Taika Oyata tells alot about his methods, and how he views ki/Chi (a whole chapter about it) and it is opposite to Dillman. Taika clearly states and re-states that you have to strike your opponet to carry out a technique or knowckout, people that claim to do this without touching their opponets are frauds, and only take advantage of people. So please help clear this up.
> Thanks!
> Yours in the arts,
> --Joshua


 
    Kinda wished you woulda PMed me on this.

 Dillman got an Honorary rank..fairly meaningless.... was not a teaching license in any sense of the word. At the time Mr. Oyata was still unknown in the US and was trying to build a relationship with fellow MA people.

 His mistake was being too trusting and taking people at their word. (Not being too good at English at the time didnt help much either) 

    So what is Dillmans rank worth??? Well I could give you the same rank and it would be about the same in value. 0


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## RRouuselot (May 25, 2005)

47MartialMan said:
			
		

> But then agian, vould it be that the two had a "fall-out" and that Oyata attempted to "cut ties" with Dillman?
> 
> One of my students and i discussed Dillman to the point my student went to his seminars...all I can say my student was dis-satisfied.


 If memory serves for a while Mr. Oyata told Dillman he could come back and learn it the right way instead of showing people the wrong way..Dillman always being the humble student and never the master as he claims on his website refused and went out to seek his fame and fortune after 6 whole seminars. 

 Mr. Oyata doesnt put up with a lot of crap and has booted students that have been with him for decades. He is very serious about certain things and training is one of them. If you dont want to train hard and study seriously and be dishonest you will be hitting the bricks.


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## 47MartialMan (May 25, 2005)

I know someone with another martial art system going through the same. The head/master instructor having a fallout with a student that seemed rogued. Making every attemot to cut ties/dis-associate. Does this mean that the student has less abilities?


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## RRouuselot (May 25, 2005)

47MartialMan said:
			
		

> Does this mean that the student has less abilities?


 Are you asking about that specific person or generally speaking?

   If its that specific person how the hell would anybody know since we have no idea who you are talking about.

   If its generally speaking again how the hell would anybody know since most people are not familiar with every instance of this.you seem to do a lot of asking for opinions on over generalizations.
 In either case what you asked is not related directly to this thread.
 Perhaps you should start a different thread.


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## 47MartialMan (May 25, 2005)

RRouuselot said:
			
		

> Are you asking about that specific person or generally speaking?
> 
> If its that specific person how the hell would anybody know since we have no idea who you are talking about.
> 
> ...


OK I see.

I am speaking of Dillman, but using another situation/person, as ponderance if it happen to Dillman in the same way.

However, does this mean that Dillman has less abilities or had not trained with Mr. Oyata?

Perhaps, a new BB article about Dillman should be in order.
Perhaps, Dillman should return and learn to set things right.
Perhaps, Dillman, like other martial artists not consider or no longer profit in such a manner off martial arts this way.


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## RRouuselot (May 25, 2005)

47MartialMan said:
			
		

> 1) However, does this mean that Dillman has less abilities or had not trained with Mr. Oyata?



   1) I have not seen that Dillman has any real ability. Dillamn has lied about his rank from shodan up as has been proven by first hand accounts from various people that Dillamn trained with (see James Coffmans website). Before Dillman got interested in kyusho his only real claim to fame was breaking blocks of icewhich he had to tamper with before he could break them by the way.


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## 47MartialMan (May 25, 2005)

RRouuselot said:
			
		

> 1) I have not seen that Dillman has any real ability. Dillamn has lied about his rank from shodan up as has been proven by first hand accounts from various people that Dillamn trained with (see James Coffmans website). Before Dillman got interested in kyusho his only real claim to fame was breaking blocks of icewhich he had to tamper with before he could break them by the way.


I am VERY (emphasis) much interested on the subject of Dillman.

A.) My student (the one I had mentioned earlier that attended Dillman seminars) and I had always suspected certain things.

B.) I have a good freind whom opened a school long ago and attends many Dillman seminars, hung many Dillman photos, on his website-link Dilman stuff, and etc. In other words, Dillman is grand in this friend's eyes.

You mention James Coffmans website;
Any link to this and others like this?

BTW-Did I say welcome back?-with sincerity.


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## RRouuselot (May 25, 2005)

47MartialMan said:
			
		

> You mention James Coffmans website;
> Any link to this and others like this?
> 
> BTW-Did I say welcome back?-with sincerity.


   I will cut right to the chase, I dont care for you, didnt care for your emails, dont care for your deceptive conduct regarding your training, your teachers etc and have no interest in helping you get any information. I will not be supplying you with any links in the future so dont bother asking. 

   So if you want info on Coffamn or Dillamn do a Dillman search or a Coffman search on MT and find it yourself.


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## 47MartialMan (May 25, 2005)

So why bother posting towards me? Why not use the "ignore" feature. You are so rude.


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## RRouuselot (May 25, 2005)

47MartialMan said:
			
		

> 1)  Why not use the "ignore" feature.
> 2) You are so rude.


 1) Good idea....your on it now.
 2) No, unlike some people I am honest.


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## 47MartialMan (May 25, 2005)

RRouuselot said:
			
		

> 1) Good idea....your on it now.
> 2) No, unlike some people I am honest.


Honestly rude and tactless.


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## arnisador (May 25, 2005)

Even if I agreed, he posts lots of good info. and that's something that can't be said of everyone at this site.


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## 47MartialMan (May 25, 2005)

arnisador said:
			
		

> Even if I agreed, he posts lots of good info. and that's something that can't be said of everyone at this site.


Yes, I give him credit for good posts if they are informative and polite. Esp in greeting posts instead of a warm "Welcome" or "Hello", he askes for their style with a readiness to debunk/refrute.


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## BlackCatBonz (May 25, 2005)

47MartialMan said:
			
		

> Yes, I give him credit for good posts if they are informative and polite. Esp in greeting posts instead of a warm "Welcome" or "Hello", he askes for their style with a readiness to debunk/refrute.


i think robert has his doubts about some people or the styles they train in........heck, i openly admit i study kosho and i am a member of SKSKI, a lot of people have a problem with that. but, this is just my opinion........most people with extensive knowledge can pretty easily pick out the hackers......even on an online forum.


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## RRouuselot (May 26, 2005)

BlackCatBonz said:
			
		

> i think robert has his doubts about some people or the styles they train in........heck, i openly admit i study kosho and i am a member of SKSKI, a lot of people have a problem with that. but, this is just my opinion........most people with extensive knowledge can pretty easily pick out the hackers......even on an online forum.


   Actually I don't go looking for fakes, frauds or wannabe BS artists. These guys come on here and make some claim or comment that stirs my curiosity and I ask them a question.like who did you train with? or what style do you train?..usually folks dont have a problem answering these type of questionsits only when people get defensive and make excuses or give vague or often no answer that the BS meter kicks in.

   Most of the time I am right about my observations.anybody remember ARK & his buddy (name forgotten), Chiduce, Mike Sensei and a few others??? All were found to be bogus and full of the brown stuff in one way or another. 

   Bottom line..I hate liars and cowards..


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## The Kai (May 26, 2005)

RRouuselot said:
			
		

> .Bottom line..I hate liars and cowards..


Dam, Double Dam.  
Oh well!


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## RRouuselot (May 26, 2005)

The Kai said:
			
		

> Dam, Double Dam.
> Oh well!


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## VSanhodo (May 26, 2005)

I have been to Dillmans seminars and Rick MoneyMakers seminars. At Moneymakers seminar I got very angry when Rick said he was going to knock ppl out then when it came time he left. Of course having Renshei Shull there with me, one of Mr Oyatas long time students and senior studnet of Tashi Logue didnt help give moneyMaker any credibility. So far as Dillmans seminar I told dillman face to face, man to man tha twhat he showed was very basic at best and all this fire burns wood and water drowns ducks etc was good marketing but poor martial arts, He was unable to KO me. Now I will admit he did stager me, but only after hitting me 4 seperate times and the last strike was a forearm across the side of my neck. Dillman saw what he did as a victory, I saw it as a miserable failure. 

Ive also been on the recieving end of Mr Shull and Mr Logue, with very light finger touch I was calling for me Momma, I was O      U     T out. with very very light finger touch. Having trained in Mr Oyatas system of Ryu-te for approx 10 years now I would have to say Dillman and Moneymaker do have skill, Their skill is in marketing and BS not in true martial arts. 

SImply my humble opinion

BTW, Robert I noticed you were gone for awhile, Please allow me to welcome you back, it is good to read your posts again. 

 now someone mentioned they would like to see Dillman and Mr Oyata square off and once and for all settle this Mano A Mano, Meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee Toooo, I would love to see it as well. Seeing MoneyMaker and Dillman squeal like little girls would make me laugh and bring me much happiness not to mention it would remove 2 of the biggest BS artist out there.

Simply my humble opinion of course. If what I say offends anyone it is not my intention to offend you and I apologize if my statements offend you but I do not apologize for what I said.

Thanks

San


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## 47MartialMan (May 26, 2005)

RRouuselot said:
			
		

> Actually I don't go looking for fakes, frauds or wannabe BS artists. These guys come on here and make some claim or comment that stirs my curiosity and I ask them a question.like who did you train with? or what style do you train?..usually folks dont have a problem answering these type of questionsits only when people get defensive and make excuses or give vague or often no answer that the BS meter kicks in.
> 
> Most of the time I am right about my observations.anybody remember ARK & his buddy (name forgotten), Chiduce, Mike Sensei and a few others??? All were found to be bogus and full of the brown stuff in one way or another.
> 
> Bottom line..I hate liars and cowards..


Yeah, but when someone admits that they HAD a fraudulent, or incredulous teacher, they are confessing without looking for further debunking and bashing. And there are some people training with "unknowns", that some lineages are unheard of.


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## RRouuselot (May 30, 2005)

VSanhodo said:
			
		

> 1)[font=&quot]      [/font]I have been to Dillmans seminars and Rick MoneyMakers seminars. At Moneymakers seminar I got very angry when Rick said he was going to knock ppl out then when it came time he left. Of course having Renshei Shull there with me, one of Mr Oyatas long time students and senior studnet of Tashi Logue didnt help give moneyMaker any credibility.
> 
> 2)[font=&quot]      [/font]So far as Dillmans seminar I told dillman face to face, man to man that what he showed was very basic at best and all this fire burns wood and water drowns ducks etc was good marketing but poor martial arts, He was unable to KO me.
> 
> ...



   1)[font=&quot]      [/font]Maybe he got stage fright.or maybe he just cant do it on someone that doesnt agree with him.

   2)[font=&quot]      [/font]Funny how some folks buy that pseudo TCM talk..I have always lived by Mr. Oayatas golden rule..no hurt no down.meaning if it doesnt hurt they wont go to the floor.

   3)[font=&quot]      [/font]Yeah but did he let you fight back.  Most likely he wouldnt get shot #1 in let alone 2,3, & 4.  

   4)[font=&quot]      [/font]I asked Mr. Oyata why he doesnt market himself more his reply no need. Not really sure what he meant but I am guessing he is not too interested in being on the New York Sellers list for MA books and tapes.  

   5)[font=&quot]      [/font]Thanks, I was a bad boy and had to go to time out. 

   6)[font=&quot]      [/font]Dillman wouldnt show. He always seemed to be unavailable for seminars in the Kansas City area (Mr. Oyatas neighborhood) even though Dillmans own students were hosting them. 

   7)[font=&quot]      [/font]It very well could offend someone here. For goodness sake dont ask any questions or you really will offend someone!


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## 47MartialMan (May 30, 2005)

RRouuselot said:
			
		

> 1)Maybe he got stage fright.or maybe he just cant do it on someone that doesnt agree with him.
> 
> 2)Funny how some folks buy that pseudo TCM talk..I have always lived by Mr. Oayatas golden rule..no hurt no down.meaning if it doesnt hurt they wont go to the floor.
> 
> ...


1.) Yeah, Dillman had also became a future no-show when his "assistants" could not drop a few people in the first of a couple of seminars.

2.) He and others that follow him, are unable to KO many people. It is like subliminal KO...something like religion congregation feeling so spiritual form a pastor/minister that the get KOed by him in the name.

3.) Fighting back has always been a problem with these KO seminars. As if a opponent is actually going to stand there and wait to be KOed.

4.) He doesn't market himself because Dillman does. Which could be underlying controversy between them.

5.) No comment

6.) Oyata lives in Kansas City?

7.) Constructive questioning is good. As long as the result of the questioning turn into the Inquisition.


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## ppko (May 30, 2005)

Alright so the many of you that claim to say such and such to Mr. Dillman show me the proof.  Whos seminar what year etc...  I have explained why we do not have the people fight back but yet you cannot explain why the people in Oyatas videos never fight back funny huh?  The fact of the matter is this our organization is growning not only by marketing but by being able to put up when the money is on the line.


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## ppko (May 30, 2005)

ppko said:
			
		

> Alright so the many of you that claim to say such and such to Mr. Dillman show me the proof. Whos seminar what year etc... I have explained why we do not have the people fight back but yet you cannot explain why the people in Oyatas videos never fight back funny huh? The fact of the matter is this our organization is growning not only by marketing but by being able to put up when the money is on the line.


for more information go here 
http://www.geocities.com/brsbarnes/index.htm


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## 47MartialMan (May 30, 2005)

ppko said:
			
		

> Alright so the many of you that claim to say such and such to Mr. Dillman show me the proof. Whos seminar what year etc... I have explained why we do not have the people fight back but yet you cannot explain why the people in Oyatas videos never fight back funny huh? The fact of the matter is this our organization is growning not only by marketing but by being able to put up when the money is on the line.


Careful, there are anti-Dillman people here.


Seriously, yes, Mr Dillman made a name for himself. Yes, he has something to offer for those people who did not or were not able to further their training/study. Due to many reasons, these people had sought out Mr Dillman's seminars to add or supplement what they were doing.

The main probelm is that there are "two camps". Oyatas and Dillman's. Each with what they believe in what they are doing.

There are people not knowing much going to Dillman's seminars to pick up a little extra along the way without having to spend years with the Oyata camp.

And there are people, who totally believe that the pressure point study will all work, anytime, on anyone.

So, though I am not anti-Dillman, I just did not have to follow the bandwagon.


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## RRouuselot (May 30, 2005)

ppko said:
			
		

> 1)Alright so the many of you that claim to say such and such to Mr. Dillman show me the proof. Whos seminar what year etc...
> 
> 2)I have explained why we do not have the people fight back but yet you cannot explain why the people in Oyatas videos never fight back funny huh?
> 
> 3)The fact of the matter is this our organization is growning not only by marketing but by being able to put up when the money is on the line.


 1)Go to Jim Coffmans website for starters. 

 2)Never?? Thats a kind of a blanket statement dont ya think. You and your pal actually only showed (or should I say stole since those mpegs were on an old Polish the new site can be found here: http://www.kempo.org.pl/galeria.html ) 2 mpegs where he was actually going through a technique explaining it as he went through it, I see you failed to show other mpegs where the movement is faster with less dialogue. Some commentary on each mpeg. Mpeg #1: the attacker is making a gesture to grab a wrist, before the attacker can actually grab hold the technique is put into motion. Mr. Oyatas point in this mpeg was dont wait for the attacker to get a firm grip and settle into his attack before you do something. Mpeg#2: merely explaining with fairly painful results where a nerve strike is supposed to go. Just showing the place-not the technique. Also of note was the lack of "color by numbers kyusho" explanation. Looked like good old fashioned pain to me. (the "attacker" in the mpegs was on the Polish Judo team and a former kickboxer)

 Here is a funny story for ya..On a trip to Okinawa in Feb. 2004 Mr. Oyata contacted Hokama Tetsuo (8th or 9th dan in Goju & Okinawa Karate Museum) and asked to stop by and have a look. Hokama said they were closed and he should come back tomorrow. Mr. Oyata told him who he was and Hokama said: Oh I didnt know it was you, please come by in about an hour. When Mr. Oyata got there Hokama explained that he had wanted to meet him for a long time and wanted something of his to put in his museum. Both of them got on the subject of technique and it seems Dillman has also made a trip there and showed some technique to Hokama. Hokama asked Mr. Oyata about it and tried to do itdidnt work. It didnt even work on one of Mr. Oyatas students. Then Mr. Oyata showed Hokama some technique.Mr. Oyatas worked every time on Hokama. Since that day Hokama has invited Mr. Oyata to Okinawa several times.

 Maybe Dillman gets so much flack is because he claims to be able to do things he cant actually do. Maybe its because many seasoned MA people dont buy into his line of BULL. Maybe its because Dillman wants customers and not students. Maybe its because Dillman has lied about his rank from shodan on up. 



       3) Really?? I think others would disagree.


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## 47MartialMan (May 30, 2005)

I knew he and it was coming......

Except he only presents Jim Coffmans website.

You will think he could provide other references.

As far as Oyata and Hokama Tetsuo, it is a story with no proof of the meeting.

And if such meeting, no proof that such technique was shown by Dillman, to be the same used by Oyata, to demonstrate effectiveness, or ineffectiveness.


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## ppko (May 31, 2005)

47MartialMan said:
			
		

> I knew he and it was coming......
> 
> Except he only presents Jim Coffmans website.
> 
> ...


Agreed


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## ppko (May 31, 2005)

Mr. Rouusolet,

Why must you always quote James Coffmans' site I said proof not someones oppinion. You have claimed that all Mr. Dillman did when he went to Mr. Oyatas seminars is stay in his trailor and drink.  Official Karate July 1984 Has Mr. Oyata doing techniques to Mr. Dillman and in another month they are talking in the magazine about doing seminars with each other.  If what you say is true about Mr. Dillman I do not believe that they would have been posing so actively and doing seminars with each other, if Mr. Oyata is like most people that I know he would find that kind of behavior rude, and would not put up with it, and beings Mr. Dillman started training with Mr. Oyata back in 1983 I am sure that he would have been found out before than.  Back then (I have seen video tape footage of Mr. Oyata doing KOs about 25 years ago) Mr. Oyata didn't even do any revivals after KOing people and none of his people were attaking him so please don't tell me that we are the only organization that does stationary KOs.


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## RRouuselot (May 31, 2005)

ppko said:
			
		

> Mr. Rouusolet,
> 
> Why must you always quote James Coffmans' site I said proof not someones oppinion. You have claimed that all Mr. Dillman did when he went to Mr. Oyatas seminars is stay in his trailor and drink. Official Karate July 1984 Has Mr. Oyata doing techniques to Mr. Dillman and in another month they are talking in the magazine about doing seminars with each other. If what you say is true about Mr. Dillman I do not believe that they would have been posing so actively and doing seminars with each other, if Mr. Oyata is like most people that I know he would find that kind of behavior rude, and would not put up with it, and beings Mr. Dillman started training with Mr. Oyata back in 1983 I am sure that he would have been found out before than. Back then (I have seen video tape footage of Mr. Oyata doing KOs about 25 years ago) Mr. Oyata didn't even do any revivals after KOing people and none of his people were attaking him so please don't tell me that we are the only organization that does stationary KOs.


 No proof the meeting took place in Okinawa between Mr. Oyata and Mr. Hokama?

           Have a look at the photo.
        Unlike some dirtbags on MT I have no problem in coughing up things to back up my claims.......enjoy


           Welcome to _Chez _MartialTalk where I will serve you nothing but the finest crow.

           You might want to order some whine (wine) since you will be eating a lot of crow. Served up cold of course. 

 (I have to admit Mr. Hokama is no slouch and by no way do I mean to discredit him or his technique by posting these photos. In fact I think it is very admirable that a man of his rank would be open minded enough to show interest in another style and he is to be respected for it. ) 



              Oyata does technique on Hokama
	

	
	
		
		

		
			






              Hokam tries technique on Oyata's student





              Hokama gets instruction from Oyata


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## RRouuselot (May 31, 2005)

ppko said:
			
		

> Mr. Rouusolet,
> 
> 1) Why must you always quote James Coffmans' site I said proof not someones oppinion. You have claimed that all Mr. Dillman did when he went to Mr. Oyatas seminars is stay in his trailor and drink.
> 
> 2) Official Karate July 1984 Has Mr. Oyata doing techniques to Mr. Dillman and in another month they are talking in the magazine about doing seminars with each other. If what you say is true about Mr. Dillman I do not believe that they would have been posing so actively and doing seminars with each other, if Mr. Oyata is like most people that I know he would find that kind of behavior rude, and would not put up with it, and beings Mr. Dillman started training with Mr. Oyata back in 1983 I am sure that he would have been found out before than. Back then (I have seen video tape footage of Mr. Oyata doing KOs about 25 years ago) Mr. Oyata didn't even do any revivals after KOing people and none of his people were attaking him so please don't tell me that we are the only organization that does stationary KOs.


 1)Why? Because Hoffmans site is up and ready for all to see PLUS he was an eyewitness to much of Dillmans antics. But that's right and eyewitness is not good enough for some people on MT....they need a video taped confession.  Why dont you prove what Hoffamn says to be untrue? Prove him wrong. 

    2)I have that issue and in it Dilman says about Oyatas technique and I quote its like nothing I have ever seen before. 





    The rest of your post is mere speculation on your behalf .


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## mj-hi-yah (May 31, 2005)

*Mod Note:*

Please keep the conversation polite and respectful.:asian: 

MJ
MT Mod


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## 47MartialMan (May 31, 2005)

RRouuselot said:
			
		

> 1)Why? Because Hoffmans site is up and ready for all to see PLUS he was an eyewitness to much of Dillmans antics. But that's right and eyewitness is not good enough for some people on MT....they need a video taped confession.  Why dont you prove what Hoffamn says to be untrue? Prove him wrong.
> 
> 2)I have that issue and in it Dilman says about Oyatas technique and I quote its like nothing I have ever seen before.
> 
> ...


Oh, the shoe is on the other foot about burden of proof via a witness.

Oh, even if there are pics, who is to say where they are and if they are authentic?

The pics do not disclose what the meeting was about.

Like pics I took of my wife posing by many celebs.


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## BlackCatBonz (May 31, 2005)

47MartialMan said:
			
		

> Oh, the shoe is on the other foot about burden of proof via a witness.
> 
> Oh, even if there are pics, who is to say where they are and if they are authentic?
> 
> ...


sounds like sour grapes.


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## 47MartialMan (May 31, 2005)

BlackCatBonz said:
			
		

> sounds like sour grapes.


Sour grapes between Dillman and Oyata


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## VSanhodo (May 31, 2005)

On one hand we have a group of ppl who have been Blinded by what is without a doubt great marketing. On the other hand we have a group that has been blinded by a Great Martial Artist.
Me personally Ive been to Mr Oyatas Seminar, MoneyMakers and Dillmans Seminars, Ive trained in the arts for 36 years now. For my money and more importantly my time I know who I have choosen. I know neither group will ever find common ground and I can live with that. Both groups have gottne better at what each does. I look at it like this, There may be fewer and fewer ppl who train in the classics be it music, Dance, martial arts etc. Everything else has merely come from the classics or is based on the classics.  
I enjoy where Im at and if your happy where you are, then thats fine by me. I can live with that. 
If I have my choice to walk with a Master or a Marketer, I know the path I want to follow.
Relax and enjoy, 
Remember when you fight with a fool its hard to tell the difference between the two.


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## BlackCatBonz (May 31, 2005)

47MartialMan said:
			
		

> Sour grapes between Dillman and Oyata


1. i believe that dillman would have a lot to lose credibility wise, if he didnt have people so wrapped up in what he is doing. if anyone is sour.....my bet is on dillman.
2. Oyata probably doesnt care what dillman does.
3. i hate to speak for robert, so this is an observation........he seems like the type of guy who likes the arts to remain somewhat authentic, and the fact that someone is peddling a watered down version that a bunch of people who dont know any better perpetrate might stick in his craw a bit.
robert is honest......maybe too honest for some people. i'd rather have someone be brutally honest over telling me even the smallest lie......no matter how ticked i may get over it. i dont think he has anything to gain from lying.


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## 47MartialMan (May 31, 2005)

Hey who said anyone was lying?

I was posting DA
There is definately two camps


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## RRouuselot (May 31, 2005)

BlackCatBonz said:
			
		

> 1)[font=&quot]      [/font]i believe that dillman would have a lot to lose credibility wise, if he didnt have people so wrapped up in what he is doing. if anyone is sour.....my bet is on dillman.
> 
> 2)[font=&quot]      [/font]Oyata probably doesnt care what dillman does.
> 
> ...



   1)[font=&quot]      [/font]I think Dillman is laughing all the way to the bankI doubt he even cares about the arts so long as he can make money.

   2)[font=&quot]      [/font]Your right. He doesnt. 

   3)[font=&quot]      [/font]Actually I dislike people that lie. I am not talking about small white lies that people often tell. I am talking about bold face lies.especially from MA people since honesty is one of the corner stones of the arts. I have kept silent for years about the nonsense Dillman has pulled and the whoppers he has spread..no more. Its getting so there is so much fiction not many people remember the facts about him.


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## RRouuselot (May 31, 2005)

Folks

      The following is a typical example of the little dance with words 47martialcrow eater does. 



 He will post something like this basically insinuating what I posted was not true or that I am not be honest about what I posted in some way:





			
				47MartialMan said:
			
		

> Oh, the shoe is on the other foot about burden of proof via a witness.
> 
> Oh, even if there are pics, who is to say where they are and if they are authentic?
> 
> ...


 


      Then he will come up with this:







			
				47MartialMan said:
			
		

> Hey who said anyone was lying?
> 
> I was posting DA
> There is definately two camps


 
       :feedtroll

 Discussing anything with him is a waste of time, he has yet to put anything of worth up on this boardI value his opinion so highly that I put him on my ignore list..looks like it is time to stick him back on it.


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## RRouuselot (May 31, 2005)

47MartialMan said:
			
		

> 1) Oh, the shoe is on the other foot about burden of proof via a witness.
> 
> 2) Oh, even if there are pics, who is to say where they are and if they are authentic?
> 
> ...


   1) Not really, you said:  *As far as Oyata and Hokama Tetsuo, it is a story with no proof of the meeting.*
 ....I posted pics that meeting. I proved the meeting took place now the burden of proof is on you to prove what I said never took place. 
     2) Yeah actually those pics are just like the cardboard cut outs like at Disneyland.... 

     3) Pretty obvious what it was about....martial arts.

     4) Post them......


  You are back on my ignore list......bye-bye:wavey:


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## arnisador (May 31, 2005)

RRouuselot said:
			
		

> 1)I think Dillman is laughing all the way to the bank


 That's my thought too.


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## shesulsa (May 31, 2005)

_*Moderator's Note:

 Thread Locked pending Admin Review

 Georgia Ketchmark
 MT Senior Mod.*_


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