# "A black belt is a white belt who never quit"



## Ella (Jun 5, 2007)

MartialArtHeart just posted this in another thread, but I thought it might deserve it's own.

I've never heard anything truer.

A Black Belt is a White Belt who never quit.

I was having a conversation with my best friend, who happens to a black belt instructor. He was having one of those "I don't feel I truly deserve my rank" days. And I was telling him that the reason he was a black belt was not because he was bruce lee, was not because he could kick above his head, was not because he can break cement blocks with his bare hands... but because, every week, he showed up at the studio, to better himself. He didn't quit when training got hard, when he hit a plateau, when he got frusterated or angry or mad. Being a certain rank isn't about being perfect and never making mistakes and giving it 100%.

It's about dragging your butt on the matt when you feel depressed, when you're tired, and getting back up when you fall down.

Thoughts?


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## Ceicei (Jun 5, 2007)

Couldn't argue with you on your points.  Your assessment matches mine...

- Ceicei


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## Kacey (Jun 5, 2007)

Ella said:


> MartialAtHeart just posted this in another thread, but I thought it might deserve it's own.
> 
> I've never heard anything truer.
> 
> ...



I agree.  Too many times, I have seen the practitioners to whom techniques come easily until about half to three-fourth of the way to black belt, or even beyond, and who quit when it finally becomes difficult - while those who worked hard for everything they learned to do or to understand appreciated what they gained more, and continued to work hard and build more on the base they began with, and stay for the long haul.  That's not to say that all people who find the physical side easy quit - but many of them don't appreciate what they've learned the way people who have to work hard for each little bit do.

To this day, it still surprises me - as hard as it was when I started, as hopeless as my techniques seemed - that I've come as far as I have, because, as MartialAtHeart said, I have never given up; I show up, I train, I study, even when I want a night off, because when I teach, my students are expecting me, and when I train, my instructor is expecting me.  He and I had a discussion years ago about the number of times I showed up because he was expecting me - and to my surprise, he told me that the same thing happened to him, that he showed up because the students were expecting him.  Everyone has off days - it's the people who don't let those off days stop them who succeed.


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## Ceicei (Jun 5, 2007)

Why do some of those who approach the time of their black belt test, sometimes quit?  It seems that although there are more black belts around (due to a larger number of schools available), there are fewer and fewer who truly do earn their black belts.  

Does society bear the blame that it is okay to try as many things, but that to pursue until completion is, for lack of better words, not requisite?  Where and when did this attitude begin?

- Ceicei


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## stone_dragone (Jun 5, 2007)

My instructor has said to me on a number of times "There's a lot of Brown belts out there..."

We usually go by the seemingly-random statistic that only 1 in 1000 make it to black belt (I know it varies by style and school, but  it gets the point across).  People quit things for many reasons, so I don't have the luxury of judging their motivations or lack of same.

I like the thread-starting quote, though...alot.


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## Hawke (Jun 5, 2007)

This philosophy also carries over to your school work, job, and life.

Having a clear goal also helps achieve those goals.

Best time to work out, make that extra call, go that extra mile...when you don't feel like it....ok now I feel like I watch too many infomercials (lol).

Chuck Norris (true story) failed his first black belt test in Tang Soo Do.  He learned from his mistakes and the next time he took the test he passed.

We all have off days, but those can also provide good lessons for us to learn.  And if we don't learn from those mistakes, life is generous enough to give us those lessons again until we learn (hehe).

&#8220;Whatever the mind of man can conceive and believe, it can achieve.&#8221; - W. Clement Stone

"Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm." - Ralph Waldo Emerson


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## Kwan Jang (Jun 5, 2007)

On one level, I completely agree with the idea that a black belt is simply a white belt who never quit. OTOH, I feel to truly be a black belt, or more accurately to say that for a black belt to have any real meaning or value, an extra element must be added. You must not only never quit, but you must also continually grow and evolve. 

For example, in the gym I will often see people who will come in and make a token effort and "train" regularly for many years. It's part of their routine and lifestyle, but it is more of a social outlet than truly striving for improvement. At the level of intensity (or lack of) that they train at, they may have been in the gym for 5 or 10 years, but you could barely tell a difference from day one, either in performance or appearance. The same holds true for martial arts (at least IMO). There are people who are there because they have a sense of comfort being there, but really aren't striving for growth. To me, that is not a black belt.

In my view at least, there is a huge difference between somone who learned and grew for one year and then repeated on that same level for another nineteen and someone who dedicated themselves to constant and never-ending impreovement for the same length of time. Both may have been training for twenty years, but in my mind, one is a long time green belt and the other is probaby at, or at least fast approaching mastery.


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## Ella (Jun 5, 2007)

Kwan Jang said:


> You must not only never quit, but you must also continually grow and evolve.



I agree; but I think it's impossible to "stay at the same level for 19 years" and still be training on a regular basis. Maybe you're not improving as rapidly as someone who is really into it, but I just dont see, how short of being mentally retarded, you could practice weekley and never pick up new ideas, thoughts, or techniques.


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## exile (Jun 5, 2007)

Kwan Jang said:


> ...for a black belt to have any real meaning or value, an extra element must be added. You must not only never quit, but you must also continually grow and evolve....There are people who are there because they have a sense of comfort being there, but really aren't striving for growth. To me, that is not a black belt.



Greetings, Kwan Jang, nice to see you around here! 

I agree completely with what you say. Persistence and tenacity... sure, absolutely necessarybut _not_ sufficient. If the will isn't fully mobilized to achieve technical understanding and excellence in execution, the practitioner won't ever genuinely control the basics at the level that a black belt signifies, at least in a school where BBs are actually worth something.


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## Ella (Jun 5, 2007)

exile said:


> If the will isn't fully mobilized to achieve technical understanding and excellence in execution, the practitioner won't ever genuinely control the basics at the level that a black belt signifies, at least in a school where BBs are actually worth something.



Do you think someone would honestly stay at an art for 20 years or more if they did not truly wish to improve?

I don't think someone would continue an art for an infinite amount of time if they did not wish to improve... if they dont wisht to improve, they would quit!


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## jks9199 (Jun 5, 2007)

Kwan Jang said:


> In my view at least, there is a huge difference between somone who learned and grew for one year and then repeated on that same level for another nineteen and someone who dedicated themselves to constant and never-ending impreovement for the same length of time. Both may have been training for twenty years, but in my mind, one is a long time green belt and the other is probaby at, or at least fast approaching mastery.


 


Ella said:


> I agree; but I think it's impossible to "stay at the same level for 19 years" and still be training on a regular basis. Maybe you're not improving as rapidly as someone who is really into it, but I just dont see, how short of being mentally retarded, you could practice weekley and never pick up new ideas, thoughts, or techniques.


 
In my career, we see lots of people with 20 years on the job -- but who have one year's experience 20 times.  There's more to being a black belt than simply being a nice guy, showing up regularly and trying hard.



exile said:


> I agree completely with what you say. Persistence and tenacity... sure, absolutely necessarybut _not_ sufficient. If the will isn't fully mobilized to achieve technical understanding and excellence in execution, the practitioner won't ever genuinely control the basics at the level that a black belt signifies, at least in a school where BBs are actually worth something.


 
There's more to reaching black belt level than simply showing up consistently, trying hard, and being a nice guy.  You need to achieve necessary level of technical skill, just for starters, and there's no guarantee that everyone will do so.  You also need to have that commitment that will transcend the belt; I'm sick and tired of seeing people get a black belt, and vanish.  (Or, even worse, assume that they don't need to learn anything more, and start teaching.)  And you need that extra something else that I can't describe -- but you know when you see it; it's what gives a black belt real authority.  That's what separates a "real" black belt from someone with a piece of black cloth around their waist.  To look at a movie example -- it's the difference between Mr. Miyagi and John Kreese, the Cobra Kai teacher in _The Karate Kid._


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## Steel Tiger (Jun 5, 2007)

Ella said:


> Do you think someone would honestly stay at an art for 20 years or more if they did not truly wish to improve?
> 
> I don't think someone would continue an art for an infinite amount of time if they did not wish to improve... if they dont wisht to improve, they would quit!


 
I can easily imagine people staying with an art for all the wrong reasons.  Chasing rank for the sake of rank, looking to gather a cult-like following, and the biggest of them all to make money.  These people may think they are wishing to improve, but in reality they are not.  They are just going through the motions to achieve whatever they are seeking without letting what they are learning actually influence them in any way.

It would be preferable if such people did quit, but we have far too much evidence that they just keep plodding along in their close-minded fashion, acruing rank simply through time.  Ultimately they open their school and pass on bad knowledge because they, themselves, have not really acquired any good knowledge.

I like to think, however, that most of us in the world of martial arts are opoen to new things, are willing to change and develop.  There has to be something more to it than just not quiting.  There has to be a desire to know and a willingness to learn how to know.


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## exile (Jun 5, 2007)

Ella said:


> Do you think someone would honestly stay at an art for 20 years or more if they did not truly wish to improve?
> 
> I don't think someone would continue an art for an infinite amount of time if they did not wish to improve... if they dont wisht to improve, they would quit!



Just as I've _known_ people who were graduate students for that long and never got around to completing their Ph. D.s, I've encountered people who've been doing TKD for twice as long as I have who are lower ranked. And I've encountered many people of the kind that JKS has encountered, in all kinds of professions and walks of life. So the answer to your initial question is yes, I _do_ think so, based on the _existence_ of such people. 

Pronunciations such as `if they dont wisht to improve, they would quit!' don't really substitute for the fact, observed by many of us, that there are plenty of people who grind out their activities, in the MAs and elsewhere,  year after year, and don't quit, and don't advance either, declarations of impossiblity notwithstanding.

Let me give a paraphrase of your original quote which seems to have _exactly_ the same truth value, given your view that getting to BB is simply a matter of persistence, i.e., not quitting: `A black belt is a white belt who put in his or her time until he became a black belt.'  And that's the view that the objections you're seeing in the posts you've been getting in the last little while are aiming at: that by just plodding on, you go from white belt to black belt. Something besides plodding seems to be required, is the idea.


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## qi-tah (Jun 6, 2007)

Ella said:


> Do you think someone would honestly stay at an art for 20 years or more if they did not truly wish to improve?
> 
> I don't think someone would continue an art for an infinite amount of time if they did not wish to improve... if they dont wisht to improve, they would quit!


 
Yeah, this blows my mind as well. But i've seen it too - there are those around who come to training every week, but in between one class and the next seem to unlearn everything they did in the previous class... again and again and again. So it's no surprise that over years their stances never improve, their flexibility and fluidity never improve, in sparring they are like lumps of lead and in their forms they still can't remember sequences. And i've seen these guys pass gradings, dog alone knows how... 
I seriously don't know why they come... just for the sense of belonging and social atmosphere i guess, although i can think of heaps of cheaper ways to satisfy that need.


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## whitetiger2001 (Jun 6, 2007)

Ella said:


> MartialArtHeart just posted this in another thread, but I thought it might deserve it's own.
> 
> I've never heard anything truer.
> 
> ...


 
I could have used this advice when I stopped training a few years ago because chronic laragitis made it impossible for me to teach.  Once was able to retrurn to the class as a teacher, I was able to return as a student as well.  That was problably the worst way for me to handle it.


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## zDom (Jun 6, 2007)

I love that saying, "A black belt is a white belt who never quit."

But here's another one I also like:

"You get out of it what you put into it."

For some people it is enough just to keep showing up, and for them that is OK.

For me personally, I feel that "Anything worth doing is worth doing well."


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## IcemanSK (Jun 6, 2007)

Hawke said:


> This philosophy also carries over to your school work, job, and life.
> 
> Having a clear goal also helps achieve those goals.
> 
> ...


 

Very well said! MA has certainly taught me the value (& neccisity [sp?]) of perserverance in life. It has been the thing that I've looked back when other things were difficult. "I can do this that same way I did that," I think to myself. I showed up & worked in college & grad school & other things that were difficult. 

It's a great saying. I like zdom's as well!


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## kidswarrior (Jun 6, 2007)

stone_dragone said:


> I like the thread-starting quote, though...alot.


 
Ditto. My version is: Yellow belt is the hardest to get--because most people give up before they reach it. 

Once you're at yellow, just keep doing what you did to get there, and before you know it, you'll be black.


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## stickarts (Jun 6, 2007)

"A black belt is a white belt who never quit."

That is an oldie but a goodie! I think i first heard that about 20 years ago.


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## kidswarrior (Jun 6, 2007)

zDom said:


> I love that saying, "A black belt is a white belt who never quit."
> 
> But here's another one I also like:
> 
> ...


 
This is also a good point. Once a student gets a rhythm (a few promotions under their belt), I find they're more able to get this point.


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## bluekey88 (Jun 6, 2007)

Despite some of the objections, I really feel the original quote is completely true.  For those individuals who show up but just go through the motions, I would argue that they have quit, but just don't know it yet.

People usually quit whne they percieve there is some impossible barrier to their advancement (not always, but often).  Those that overcome these barriers advance...they persere.  Those that walk away are the classic quitters.  Those that saty, but never get past the barriers stay stuck in limbo.  Thev've effectively quit without actually walking away.  Not sure wich kind of quitting would be worse.

Peace,
Erik


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## kidswarrior (Jun 6, 2007)

bluekey88 said:


> Thev've effectively quit without actually walking away.
> Peace,
> Erik


 Good points, Erik. We call this RIP (Retiring in Place).


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## MartialArtHeart (Jun 19, 2007)

bluekey88 said:


> Despite some of the objections, I really feel the original quote is completely true.  For those individuals who show up but just go through the motions, I would argue that they have quit, but just don't know it yet.


 You get it!  To stop taking the Martial Arts is NOT the only way to quit.
Every time that you say "I'll never be able to get this kick"... you've quit.
And I've done it many a time... and then I realize that I'm being a quitter... that's not what a black belt is.
I know "black belts" who pump out the moves... but they don't really try.  They don't set an example.  They're not the heroes that little children want to see when they look at a black belt.
They AREN'T black belts.  I don't care what you say.  And I shall never acknowledge them as such.

A black belt is a white belt that NEVER, EVER, EVER gave up.  That's a true black belt.  They wanted to, many a time; thought about it... but in the end they gave it their all, and transcended the everyday person.  
A TRUE black belt.


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