# MT Encyclopedia Entry on Ninjutsu



## Bob Hubbard

http://www.martialtalk.net/wiki/index.php/Ninjutsu


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## heretic888

Bob Hubbard said:
			
		

> http://www.martialtalk.net/wiki/index.php/Ninjutsu


 
Hrmm. Interesting.

Also.... Kogo??

Laterz.


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## Bob Hubbard

Many of the entries were mirrored from other sources, so we have a starting point. Now, it's our job to fix, flesh out and expand things, as long as they fall into the guidelines of credible and verifiable. (I'll say those words alot.  )

Everyone is invited to improve the entries.


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## Don Roley

> Ninjutsu is said to have begun some 800 years ago during Japan's feudal age. It has been suggested that practitioners of Ninjutsu, Ninja, were a group of peasants who chose not to obey the samurai of the time and fled to the mountain regions of Iga and Kogo.
> 
> Training in Ninjutsu began very early in life and was an ongoing, intense training. Training was conducted secretly. Names of those involved were also kept secret. It is said that Ninja were used in espionage, assassination and other operations involving stealth.
> 
> During the 1970's, Stephen K. Hayes and Doron Navon, upon discovering in Japan a Ninjutsu headmaster with lineage dating back many centuries, brought the art to the western world.



Where to start?

I dislike the entire first paragraph. The starting date of ninjutsu could be either as far back as before recorded history or as late as the 15th century. It all depends on your definition of ninjutsu. The 800 number probably comes from the date that Nishina Daisuke is said to have fled to Iga and started what would become the Togakure ryu. Of course, is it really a case of what he started being ninjutsu or did the art evolve later on due to the circumstances.

And the peasent reference is just wrong..... Trust me. There are stories of defeated warriors from the Heike clan and the armies of Yoshitsune and Yoshinaka founding ninja traditions. And there are stories from Iga of them setting up their own region when central control went to hell. But no mention of peasents starting some sort of counter culture to the samurai.



> Training in Ninjutsu began very early in life and was an ongoing, intense training. Training was conducted secretly. Names of those involved were also kept secret.



First sentence, ok. Second- sometimes. Third, not really.

Last paragraph, Navron and Hayes were not the only guys, not even the first, to train with Hatsumi. And why isn't Hatsumi mentioned as their teacher?


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## OnlyAnEgg

As author of this entry, it's truthful to say that the information is kept very general because:
a) it's a controversial discipline
b) trustworthy information is difficult to find
c) I don't know that much about Ninjutsu

Note, especially, the very first part of the entry:

_This article is a Stub and needs to be expanded._

Please, anyone willing, jump in and fill it out, correct it, etc!


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## Kreth

Don Roley said:
			
		

> Where to start?


You can sign up as an editor, Don...  I'm actually signed up, I just haven't had time to sit down and write anything. I've just corrected a few glaring errors.
BTW, clear out your PM box...


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## Don Roley

I did clean out my box 12 hours ago.

As for signing up as an editor, would it not be better if I laid out stuff here and we discussed it and then someone like you could take the final product and edit it?


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## Kreth

Don Roley said:
			
		

> As for signing up as an editor, would it not be better if I laid out stuff here and we discussed it and then someone like you could take the final product and edit it?


We could do that...


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## arnisador

Either way! But, if an entry doesn't seem right, change it or ask that it be changed...that's the beauty of a Wiki!


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## Don Roley

I think that we should start with a definition of ninjutsu. The problem is that the term is now used to cover a lot of things that were called something else at the time. Some people think that it means espionage, while others use it to refer to stealth and scouting. The ninja of Iga and Koga, according to the _Bansenshukai_ believed that no practicioner of ninjutsu was complete unless he studied and used both aspects.


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## Bob Hubbard

A generic definition can be used for the term, with separate entries for each organization to help differentiate their strengths and weaknesses, as well as histories, notables, and other important such stuff.

Feel free to bring over the Wikipedia entrys at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ninjutsu if you like as well.  Except for the Ashida Kim entrys...link those back to Wikipedia please. (It's 1 headache I'd prefer we avoid here).


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## rutherford

Don Roley said:
			
		

> I think that we should start with a definition of ninjutsu. The problem is that the term is now used to cover a lot of things that were called something else at the time. Some people think that it means espionage, while others use it to refer to stealth and scouting. The ninja of Iga and Koga, according to the _Bansenshukai_ believed that no practicioner of ninjutsu was complete unless he studied and used both aspects.



And some instructors have a very different usage of the word, even within our organization.

You know, I'd be interested in your take on my camp if there weren't so much politics involved.  Reply by PM if interested.


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