# 41 year old newbie here with a question



## level7 (Nov 16, 2008)

Hey!

I've started down the path that will hopefully one day lead me to a black belt in Taekwondo. 

I am amazed at my 7 year old's daughter's natural ability to kick really high (her head height) with little effort. We both started at the same time. 

I on the other hand, have trouble kicking from the side. Unless my standing leg heel is pointed towards the target my kicks are low and painful at the hips. While I understand "painful" is subjective, it is not a sharp pain but more of a range of motion pain. Is this normal and will it get better with stretching and more practice or am I doomed to improve my hand strikes and blocks from kicks?

It sucks to get old, I regret I had not picked this up long ago. I think I would have been pretty good as I am quicker or as quick as some of the younger fighters during sparring but I have no leg game


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## terryl965 (Nov 16, 2008)

All you need is time and proper strecthing and you will be there as well.

PS you shoulld go to the meet and greet section and introduce yourself.


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## JadecloudAlchemist (Nov 16, 2008)

Its not fair to compare yourself to a young girl.

I have seen Young girls be able to do Splits,Roll,Hand stands with great flexibility.

It sounds to me like the Hip Flexor:

http://www.microstretching.com/html/hip_flexor.html

http://www.competeperformance.com/TYIS.html

Improving your stretching should greatly enhance your kicks.

Beware that streching muscles that are weak can feel like Physical Therapy.


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## hpulley (Nov 16, 2008)

I'm not in TKD and I'm not quite as old (36, nearly 37) but I can say that while you can improve your flexibility for sure and raise your kicks some, you'll never be like a 7 year old girl!  Similarly my kids are so flexible that it is hard to believe but after years of sitting or standing the same position and just plain age I bet they won't be so flexible either.  Will you ever be able to kick someone in the head now?  I don't know... some people can regain more flexibility than others but it is possible that you never will.  Good luck and do lots of stretching!

Oh, and something which is good in karate/kobudo is to have a partner help you stretch.  This definitely helps to open stuff up.


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## Dr. Mantis (Nov 16, 2008)

Take your stretching slow and gradually. Don't be in a hurry for results. I use my television watching time for stretching. 

Even if you're never able to kick high, stretching will help you feel better anyways.

Just take it slow and easy. Over several months of regular stretching you may begin to see gradual improvements. If you stop doing it though, the benefits will go away. So, even if you quit TKD, keep on exercising.


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## Drac (Nov 16, 2008)

All good responses that I cannot add to without repeating what was already said..


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## Tez3 (Nov 16, 2008)

You are only a couple of years younger than I was when I started, that was over 16 years ago. ( shudders quietly to herself lol). I've never been able to stretch very far and have never done kicks much above belt height but my low kicks are very good!
The advice you will get from MT is good always, many experienced people here. 
Enjoy your MA and don't compare yourself to anyone!


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## tshadowchaser (Nov 16, 2008)

First let me welcome you to MT.

Being older it is not fair to compare yourself to the kids, they just are more limber.

As has been said take your time stretching at school and when at home.  

You may never be able to do some of the high kicks like the young ones but that should not be your goal.  Your goal should be to challenge yourself to be the best you can be over time.  IT dose take time.  Pace yourself but challenge yourself also. You will see results slowly (maybe slowly), so take each new achievement as a positive and work from there to the next level.
Congratulations on starting and the best to you in your training


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## level7 (Nov 16, 2008)

Thanks guys/gals. 

I'm the type that likes to dive right in and excel especially now since I'm older and have the experience and wisdom to get there faster. I'm so annoyed with my body. The mind is willing but the body is not  

Its frustrating to spar with 20-30 year olds and then get accused of kicking at their knees when I'm clearly trying to kick at their mid section LOL. It serves them right for being so young . Oh well looks like lots of stretching.


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## MasterWright (Nov 16, 2008)

Perhaps a little light stretching before your class, think about getting blood flow to the joints before moving fast. Muscles are 70 percent water so get them warm before stretching. 

If you will yourself to relax when you stretch you should see instant results and understand. I live in Canada where it's cold during the winter and notice increased flexibility in the summer. So I work hard to increase that before the bad weather comes. Every year a little more, despite my age.

Hope this is of some benefit.


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## MasterWright (Nov 16, 2008)

Oh Yes. Welcome to Martial talk and good luck!


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## Almost (Nov 16, 2008)

Yea stretching is going to do it for you. My suggestion is straddle splits. Just sit in that position for a while and learn to relax and go to both sides as well but try to keep low and keep your hips open when you move. I think that would help. Also ask your teacher for some good stretches that you can do. Being around for so long teachers are good resources.


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## hpulley (Nov 16, 2008)

I must say, I get the "keep the kicks above the belt" comment myself too and I think and ask, "why"?  Kicking someone in the knees is a valid self defense tactic though perhaps not allowed in competition TKD.  IMO you should be worried about your knees so don't expect me not to kick them!


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## fireman00 (Nov 16, 2008)

level7 said:


> Hey!
> 
> I on the other hand, have trouble kicking from the side. Unless my standing leg heel is pointed towards the target my kicks are low and painful at the hips. While I understand "painful" is subjective, it is not a sharp pain but more of a range of motion pain. Is this normal and will it get better with stretching and more practice or am I doomed to improve my hand strikes and blocks from kicks?



I have learned from 2 different instructors - one WTF the second teaches ITF and WTF. Both have taught to turn your standing leg so that your heel faces the target.


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## Gordon Nore (Nov 16, 2008)

level7 said:


> I am amazed at my 7 year old's daughter's natural ability to kick really high (her head height) with little effort. We both started at the same time.



That's quite natural. As you watch the kids of various ages practise, you'll be astonished at what they can do. With older kids, you may notice that novice girls and women kick better than novice boys and men, especially in terms of flexibility and height.



> I on the other hand, have trouble kicking from the side. Unless my standing leg heel is pointed towards the target my kicks are low and painful at the hips. While I understand "painful" is subjective, it is not a sharp pain but more of a range of motion pain. Is this normal and will it get better with stretching and more practice or am I doomed to improve my hand strikes and blocks from kicks?



I won't comment on the nature of the pain. However, I can relate to you the apparent inflexibility you're experiencing. (BTW: I started at 35 and got my first dan at 46, so I understand the age and flexibility issue.) What you're saying is, your sidekick is harder with your planted foot perpendicular to the target. Turning the foot as you are doing -- so your planted toes are opposite the target -- is exactly what I do. Essentially, you've taken a side kick and turned it into a modified back kick. Kicking that way, you probably feel like your balance is better, the height comes more easily, and the kick itself feels stronger. Am I right?

Again, I would concentrate on the technique, and worry less about height. A low sidekick -- or modified back kick -- targeted to knee, shin, calf, or ankle is a valid self-defense technique. I would be curious if you're experiencing less pain when kicking lower. My motto: If you can't kick high, kick low.



> It sucks to get old, I regret I had not picked this up long ago. I think I would have been pretty good as I am quicker or as quick as some of the younger fighters during sparring but I have no leg game



Don't be discouraged -- with careful repetition and guidance, you will be doing things in a year that you had never imagined possible.

As for the pain itself, I would err on the side of caution and talk to my teacher and doctor.


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## Gordon Nore (Nov 16, 2008)

hpulley said:


> I must say, I get the "keep the kicks above the belt" comment myself too and I think and ask, "why"?  Kicking someone in the knees is a valid self defense tactic though perhaps not allowed in competition TKD.  IMO you should be worried about your knees so don't expect me not to kick them!



hpulley,

I posted my reply before reading yours carefully and was delighted to discover we came to the same conclusion.


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## Kacey (Nov 16, 2008)

level7 said:


> Hey!
> 
> I've started down the path that will hopefully one day lead me to a black belt in Taekwondo.
> 
> I am amazed at my 7 year old's daughter's natural ability to kick really high (her head height) with little effort. We both started at the same time.



She's 7.  Young children have a couple of things going for them in terms of flexibility - their body proportions are different (their legs and arms are closer to the length of their torsos than adults) and their rapidly growing muscles and ligatures tend to be looser.  Both of these are why she is able to kick so much higher than you are.  However, over time, your kicks will get higher too - perhaps not as high as hers, but you will have strengths of your own that will balance out against her flexibility.



level7 said:


> I on the other hand, have trouble kicking from the side. Unless my standing leg heel is pointed towards the target my kicks are low and painful at the hips. While I understand "painful" is subjective, it is not a sharp pain but more of a range of motion pain. Is this normal and will it get better with stretching and more practice or am I doomed to improve my hand strikes and blocks from kicks?



It'll get better - but it may take several months, or longer, depending on just how tight your joints currently are, and how flexible you feel you need to be.  Stretching _after_ working out will help much more with overall flexibility than stretching beforehand - when your muscles are warm and tired, they will stretch farther than they will when they are cold and rested.



level7 said:


> It sucks to get old, I regret I had not picked this up long ago. I think I would have been pretty good as I am quicker or as quick as some of the younger fighters during sparring but I have no leg game



Age and treachery will win out over youth and speed!



fireman00 said:


> I have learned from 2 different instructors - one WTF the second teaches ITF and WTF. Both have taught to turn your standing leg so that your heel faces the target.



Me too - although I've only learned in the ITF, that's how I learned and teach side kick as well.


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## level7 (Nov 16, 2008)

Gordon, 

Yes, I feel more power with my heel facing the target. But aren't there other kicks that have the standing foot parallel to the target? My favorite kick is the kick where you twist/pivot on your lead foot and spin around for a back kick, I get power and can land a stomach/chest high kick. A roundhouse will work if I execute a perfect heel facing the target move, otherwise, its kinda low and painful.

I'm really concerned more about the sparring aspect. In SD I'll aim for the knees, no question. No need to get fancy there. In sparring, I'll be pummeled all day long unless I have a kicking game that doesn't include knee strikes  Another thing I'm exploring is jumping kicks. By jumping I close half the distance but exert more energy and increase the risk of hurting myself during a bad landing. 



Gordon Nore said:


> That's quite natural. As you watch the kids of various ages practise, you'll be astonished at what they can do. With older kids, you may notice that novice girls and women kick better than novice boys and men, especially in terms of flexibility and height.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Gordon Nore (Nov 16, 2008)

level7 said:


> Gordon,
> 
> Yes, I feel more power with my heel facing the target. But aren't there other kicks that have the standing foot parallel to the target? My favorite kick is the kick where you twist/pivot on your lead foot and spin around for a back kick, I get power and can land a stomach/chest high kick. A roundhouse will work if I execute a perfect heel facing the target move, otherwise, its kinda low and painful.



My spinning inventory is about two kicks: I've underlined what sounds to me like a turning or spinning side-kick, again just modified slightly like a back kick. It's good for closing the distance fast and delivering power to the target. It can be done leading (cross your lead foot and swing around) or full (step forward with back foot and cross lead foot) -- the latter is more of a "tell" if you're not really fast. 



> I'm really concerned more about the sparring aspect. In SD I'll aim for the knees, no question. No need to get fancy there. In sparring, I'll be pummeled all day long unless I have a kicking game that doesn't include knee strikes  Another thing I'm exploring is jumping kicks. By jumping I close half the distance but exert more energy and increase the risk of hurting myself during a bad landing.



I understand why you want a more diverse kicking arsenal for sparring in TKD -- I forget the emphasis on kicking in that art. I dabbled in spinning and leaping in my late thirties, then sought closer to the ground options, but tourney-style wasn't a priority at my school. Essentially, we know that you can kick backwards with comfort and confidence, which suggests that you should also be able to kick forwards. You might find that you can get sufficient height with simple front thrust and snap kicks. Properly timed, you can get plenty of speed and height going to make your opponent lower his/her arms.

As for adding to your spinning, good on you. It was never in the cards for me.


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## level7 (Nov 17, 2008)

Gordon Nore said:


> ... Essentially, we know that you can kick backwards with comfort and confidence, which suggests that you should also be able to kick forwards. You might find that you can get sufficient height with simple front thrust and snap kicks. Properly timed, you can get plenty of speed and height going to make your opponent lower his/her arms.
> 
> As for adding to your spinning, good on you. It was never in the cards for me.



Very good... Yes, no problems kicking front snap. Chest high, nice and clean. Weird, I was just practicing this last night. 

I was reading some the Bruce Lee's books on kicking and he favored the back kicks. Lots of power there. The side kick are more of a glancing blow according to him and not as powerful. He seems spot on. At least I'm on the right track. That guy's amazing.

Thanks for your help. I'm psyched for tonight. I hope I get to spar with a quick black belt.


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## foggymorning162 (Nov 17, 2008)

First welcome to MT.
I know everyone has already said it but...stretch. I have arthritis and if I don't warm up and then stretch before class kicking hurts a lot. As for your daughter kicking higher than you I teach kids the little $#!%& are extremely flexible and girls (kids and adults) seem to have more flexabiltiy in the hips which makes sense if you think about it with the whole child birth thing. As for turning your heal that is the way we teach a side kick when you turn your heal it opens the hips which is why you feel pain if you don't.


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## matsu (Nov 21, 2008)

again some great advice for a fellow old git!

make sure your techniques are right certainly foot placement will enhance your kicks.
stretching gently will also allow you to kick higher and better.

also and my knowledge of tkd is limted but you have picked an art where they pride themselves on high dynamic kicking, perhaps a different art would suit you more?
wing chun for example, we never kick to higher than midsection and mostly front kicks.
i dropped from karate as it hurt my hip injuries from various reasons.and although i can kick high its a one off technique so if i miss my hips dont allow me the flexibilty to recover and deliver another quick move.
wing chun gives me more than enough options so i dont have to use my kicks at all.
 just my tuppence
 matsu


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## zDom (Nov 22, 2008)

You will also need to strengthen your "lift up the leg" muscles in addition to becoming more flexible.

The best way to do this is practice kicking as high as you can with good form.

Objectivity is a good thing: put marks on a fence or basketball goal pole, for example, to aim at so you have a better idea of exactly how high you are kicking. Make marks higher as you get comfortable with your baseline marks.


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## SA_BJJ (Nov 25, 2008)

I experienced this as well when I first started back in Karate after a 20 year layoff.  Nothing like being 10 and a junior blackbelt and able to stretch your body anyway you want going to a 30 year old man who hasnt stretched effectively over time and cant kick above the mid hip area.  

It is an extrememly slow process.  Start wip some hip opening exercises, and just take your time.  Hold your stretches anywhere from 45 secs - 2 mins.  Relax and breathe.  The road to flexibility is no sprint, especially for those of us that havent stretched in years.  Grab a beginners yoga video and make sure you just stretch everyday no matter what.  Also, you want to alternate how you stretch just as you alternate how you lift wieghts.  Heavy stretching one day and light the next.  After your heavy stretching days you may feel somewhat sore.  Make sure you are drinking ALOT of water.  

Hope this helps.

PS you can youtube various stretches to help you with hip flexibility.


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