# Roaming Children's Shrinking Radius'



## MA-Caver (Jul 1, 2007)

> *How children lost the right to roam in four generations*
> By DAVID DERBYSHIRE - More by this author » Last updated at 01:03am on 15th June 2007
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=462091&in_page_id=1770
> Comments Comments (23)
> ...


When I was a kid (pre-teen) I roamed as far as the stores roughly 1/2 mile to 2 miles away. When we moved to the farm (mid-teens) I gone as far as 4-6 miles out in the woods and trails. When I moved to the big city (late-teens) my radius expanded to however far the bus could take me. All of that alone and I was never threatened but a couple of times chased by bullies in the city (never caught  ). My parents only worried when the sun started coming down. When asked "where you been?" I told the truth and was told to wash up for supper, nothing more was said and I did it again the next day (if it were summer vacation of course :uhyeah: ) .
Now with this article about the shrinking roaming circles (see illustration below) makes me wonder about if the dangers to children wandering alone have increased? Most certainly they have. What will that say about our grand-children and great grand children? How far ... if ever, will they be allowed to roam? 
Wonder if this is going to be detrimental to society as a whole? Free roaming allows for a child to build confidence and helps them find their own niche in the wide world around them. It makes it easier, I think, for the child to go away to college or military or where-ever. It teaches them to learn how to live with themselves, how to enjoy their own company. But with the dangers ever increasing out there what effect will this have on the adults tomorrow? I'm sure there are going to be a good number of "break-out" people who will follow the spirit of adventure and roam the last vestiges of wilderness left in the world. Just overall most people. What will become of them? 

What was your roaming radius and how far (if applicable) do you let your children roam unsupervised?


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## Kacey (Jul 1, 2007)

Hmmm... could you please add the illustration?  I'm not seeing it.

When I was in kindergarten, I remember falling down and scraping my knee, and my older sister (3 1/2 years older - so 7 or 8) putting me on her friend's bike and pushing me the rest of the way to school.  I have no idea how far that was, however.

When I was 6-8, we lived in an apartment complex with a playground, so there was no reason to go any farther.

By the time I was 12, I was riding my bike 3 or 4 miles each way to the swimming pool and public library (they were on the same lot).

The question is - how much of the change is do to safety (both from predators and from traffic and related issues), how much is due to availability (of places to go - it's at least an hour's drive to the nearest fishing spot from here - but there are parks or playgrounds every couple of miles, at the outside), and how much is due to other factors?  

In 1926, there were a lot fewer cars and their top speed was a lot lower, and public entertainment facilities (parks, playgrounds, movie theaters, etc.) were much fewer and farther between, or not yet thought of (shopping malls, zoos as they exist today, swimming pools, etc.) - and open country was a lot closer; the kids at the middle school I teach at regularly walk a couple of miles (or more) to get to the water park, because that's the only place to go, except for shopping.  There are bus lines all over the city, and student bus passes are about $12/month.  In addition, in 1926, generally only the father worked; the mother was at home with the kids, and there was always someone around to check in with, and to notice if a child was gone for too long.  It'll be interesting to see if the advent of cheap cell phones makes any difference in this trend.


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## jks9199 (Jul 1, 2007)

When I was a kid, we'd ride our bikes all over.  I spent more time playing in the woods than at home...  It was nothing for my mom to send me off to swim practice in the morning, maybe see me at lunch (not always) and maybe just a phone call for "permission" to stay at a friend's house for dinner, and getting home after dark.  (Obviously, some of this expanded with age.  I think I was 7 or 8 before I was allowed to go to the woods by myself...)  Not to put too bucolic a spin -- I also spent plenty of time reading or watching TV.  But, guessing ('cause the maps have changed a hell of a lot...), I'd say I probably roamed in an area roughly 4 square miles with no real supervision.  

What I see currently is many kids being managed and scheduled and organized to death until their teens -- then they're left on their own unless they have school activities.  We learned from doing things on our own, playing games together, figuring out how to get along, and more.

There's a book out that I'm planning to get on this theme; it's *The Dangerous Book for Boys.*  It seems to be all about the stupid, dangerous, fun, and sometimes just silly things we boys used to do...


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## Brian R. VanCise (Jul 1, 2007)

Times simply have changed with the increase and density of population.  When I was younger I used to roam for miles.  However, it was a very isolated area and not densely populated.  With density of population comes a certain percentage of predators.  Because we have more people now we also have more predators.  That is the number one reason why parents are more protective and managing where and what their children are doing.  We are also inundated every time we turn on the news with another child being abducted, raped, killed, etc.  So the current generation of parents is more informed and hence again taking more protective measures.


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## MA-Caver (Jul 1, 2007)

Sorry Kacey... thought the "manage attachments" had worked... sigh...


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## Abbax8 (Jul 1, 2007)

When I was a kid we took shortcuts through neighbors yards, the grass not their flower beds. Today, many neighbors will call the cops if your kid touches their lawn. It's nuts. Kids can't be kids anymore.

Peace

Dennis


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## MA-Caver (Jul 1, 2007)

Abbax8 said:


> When I was a kid we took shortcuts through neighbors yards, the grass not their flower beds. Today, many neighbors will call the cops if your kid touches their lawn. It's nuts. Kids can't be kids anymore.
> Peace
> Dennis


Yeah it sucks, the right of easement has gone the way of the dodo. Sad


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## bydand (Jul 1, 2007)

How funny this should crop up today.  I was just thinking of this last night and how far I could go at age 9 and how far I let my 9 year old go.  At age 9 I was living in West Michigan and I regularity rode my bike into both towns we lived near.  Both were 5 miles from home.  Best part was I would stop by the strawberry field on the corner of our road and pick berries until I had enough to ride into a sport store and buy a box of 50 .22 LR bullets, a bottle of Pepsi and a quick stop by the drug store for an ice-cream cone (they still had a real old fashioned soda fountain there.)  then either a ride back home, or out to my best friends house who lived 4 miles the other side of town.  After shooting the box of shells we would play around the woods until almost supper and I would ride home to get there just before dark (around 9:00 PM in the summer).  Never caught any flack, and did this almost every single day during summer break.  The days I didn't ride into to town I would ride a couple of miles to fish all day in the Pere Marquette river by myself.   So my Range would have been about 14 miles East-West and about 7 miles North-South.

Fast forward to 2007 and my 9 year old has a range of only about 1 1/2 miles.  Sure he has a LOT more summer activities than was available to me like Adventure Camp this last week, Scout Day camp 2 weeks ago, and a week long stay at grandma and Grandpas house next week.  He went rock climbing, bouldering, kayaking, canoing, geoCaching, and old fashioned orienteering last week.  Scout camp they did different things as well, so he has already did more this summer than I did in ALL my summer vacations combined.  Plus we live right in town and not out in the sticks like I did as a kid, there is no need for him to go as far as I did to get to things.


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## Sukerkin (Jul 1, 2007)

Hi *Caver*

I must've not been paying attention somewhere along the line to not see that you're ex-pat Yorkshire lad ... then again, now I type that I get the feeling that I did know but had forgotten .

Anyhow, roaming ranges.  When I was a kid, I would guess that my 'range' was only a couple of miles but that was because there was no need to go any further i.e. there was a stream (fishing) about a mile away, hay fields ('fort' making) a similar distance, woods (general 'army' play) all around, Cheadle Park (general purpose) about a mile and a half away, cemetary (visiting grandad) a couple of miles out, swimming baths and recreation grounds about the same.

At no time did I feel in any danger ... other than from the odd irate farmers dog barking "Get off my land!" and giving chase when you've ventured where you shouldn't (that is _terrifying_ when you're a little kid, tho' none of them ever bit me or my friends !).  My folks knew where I was going and I was under strict instructions as to when I should be back (and you'd didn't stretch those time limits *too* badly either, tho' vague concepts such as 'Tea Time' gave you a little wriggle-room ).


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## jdinca (Jul 1, 2007)

As a kid I went everywhere by bike and skateboard. We'd range for miles, including up and down fire trails in the hills. By 12, I was riding a bus downtown to go to the movies. 

It's tragic that most kids today will never experience that level of freedom. Then again, most of them don't want to the leave the computer or the X-box...


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## Gordon Nore (Jul 1, 2007)

Toronto is blessed with a vast ravine that snakes through the city and has been preserved as park land. I grew up in a large neighbourhood of high-rise apartments and would disappear into the 'woods' for hours. When I learned to ride, I'd escape for miles. I switched to a middle school outside my neighbourhood and rode the subways at twelve, which was no big deal as many of my classmates had been taking public transit to school since the junior grades. This was in the 1960s and early 1970s.

My son's upbringing has been more protected. I suppose urban growth and fears about crime play a role, but other things have changed as well. When I was younger, parents generally had expectations of their children's behaviour in public, _*and*_ other adults were at liberty to enforce those expectations. In other words, if the bus driver told you to sit down, you did. And if you had any sense, you didn't go home and tell your folks about how the driver was mean to you.

Nowadays the bus driver would get in trouble for telling a kid to behave.


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## Nomad (Jul 2, 2007)

I see a lot of this as a direct result of the media's sensationalism of the (still incredibly rare) child abduction/rape/murder cases that we see so often (primarily because they now make national news instead of local/regional), and the accompanying fear that these incidents induce in all parents.

Also, the housing density has gone way up since I was a kid, and there are a lot more 4-lane roads around now.  I know I don't feel comfortable riding a bike on these, nevermind letting my 8-year old (who's still just figuring out how the handbrakes work) try on her own.

As a parent, I think it's important to *realistically* weigh the dangers against the benefits coming from the independence encouraged by roaming.


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## OUMoose (Jul 3, 2007)

There is a flip side to this story as well, not involving danger at all (well, it may depending on perspective).  Why would a kid today want to go walk 6 miles to fish when he could walk to his/her living room, flip on the Wii, and play a fishing game?  What motivation does a kid have to go visit his friends when he can just as easily flop in front of his/her computer, login to Yahoo or MSN or Myspace, and talk to them from there (or even videoconference)?

I do think it's partially a problem with, as others have mentioned, things like population density increasing the number of predators in a location.  However,  I also think it falls on the parents not taking enough of an interest in their children's activities.  With the way that the world has become so chaotic in terms of non-stop bills and work, I'm sure it's easy to lose sight of the important things.  That doesn't excuse it, though.  Is it because the parents are frightened of their kids getting hurt?  Perhaps.  Is it because they 're too wrapped up in things to see their kids becoming isolated by technology?  Could be.  I don't have a good answer, unfortunately, and I don't profess to be an expert.  :idunno:


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## Drac (Jul 3, 2007)

OUMoose said:


> There is a flip side to this story as well, not involving danger at all (well, it may depending on perspective). Why would a kid today want to go walk 6 miles to fish when he could walk to his/her living room, flip on the Wii, and play a fishing game? What motivation does a kid have to go visit his friends when he can just as easily flop in front of his/her computer, login to Yahoo or MSN or Myspace, and talk to them from there (or even videoconference)?


 
Well said OUMoose..We'd leave in the morning and not be seen until Lunch and then gone again until Dinner..


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## ArmorOfGod (Jul 7, 2007)

I like Brian VanClise's point of population density is a great one.  
I have been watching this thread since it started and have thought about this same subject many times over the years.
To go with his point, hop over to www.familywatchdog.us to see how many child rapists there are in your neck of the woods.  If my kids walked 4 miles (for example), they would cross the yards of about a dozen convicted sex offender.  Now, if I lived in Georgia, the offenders would not be allowed to live near school bus stops, so that helps.
Side note: that site I just listed does not give a complete listing of all of the sex offenders.  Go to your state run site to get the correct list.

AoG


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## qi-tah (Jul 8, 2007)

As a kid up to about 10, i guess i had about a 1-2km radius for walking and riding my bike? After that it grew much larger (due to changing schools). 
But i do remember my Dad and i going ocean catamarining during my childhood. We'd visit the small rocky "islands" (basically seal colonies) about 1-2km offshore and he'd leave me there while he went back to shore to pick up his girlfriend (there was only room for 2 on the trampoline) with the picnic stuff. It was always an interesting feeling watching the cat sail away... a frisson of anxiety and excitement. I guess i've been addicted to that feeling ever since!


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## MA-Caver (Jul 8, 2007)

qi-tah said:


> As a kid up to about 10, i guess i had about a 1-2km radius for walking and riding my bike? After that it grew much larger (due to changing schools).
> But i do remember my Dad and i going ocean catamarining during my childhood. We'd visit the small rocky "islands" (basically seal colonies) about 1-2km offshore and he'd leave me there while he went back to shore to pick up his girlfriend (there was only room for 2 on the trampoline) with the picnic stuff. It was always an interesting feeling watching the cat sail away... a frisson of anxiety and excitement. I guess i've been addicted to that feeling ever since!


Wow, that must've been something for a 10 year-old to watch their parent literally sail away and wonder... they ARE coming back... aren't they??? Lots of love and trust there I'm sure. 

Question is... would you do the same with your kids today?


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## Jade Tigress (Jul 8, 2007)

When I was a kid I had NO limits on where I went. I walked or rode my bike everywhere. I don't even know how many miles from home I was, I never gave it a second thought. I'd be gone all day. 

Now, I think it depends on where you live and the ages and maturity of your kids. My kids are 16 and 13, we live in suburban Chicago, a *safe* neighborhood. I know many of our neighbors and all of our kids friends live within walking distance. I pretty much give them free run. They both have cell phones and I need to know where they're going to be. They also both know the rules if they're ever *approached* and my son has come home from the park before with his friend saying they left because there were *big kids* there. 

As with almost everything in life, there is a case by case basis for things.


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## jks9199 (Jul 8, 2007)

ArmorOfGod said:


> I like Brian VanClise's point of population density is a great one.
> I have been watching this thread since it started and have thought about this same subject many times over the years.
> To go with his point, hop over to www.familywatchdog.us to see how many child rapists there are in your neck of the woods.  If my kids walked 4 miles (for example), they would cross the yards of about a dozen convicted sex offender.  Now, if I lived in Georgia, the offenders would not be allowed to live near school bus stops, so that helps.
> Side note: that site I just listed does not give a complete listing of all of the sex offenders.  Go to your state run site to get the correct list.
> ...


A few things about panicked reactions to sex offender registries...

To really assess the risk of the offenders around you, you have to know who is required to register.  There is no uniform standard; some offenses that don't require registry in one state will in another.  And not all registered offenders are registered for offenses that would pose a threat to you or your kids...  For example, a guy I knew many years ago once kissed a girl's breast over her shirt in math class on a dare.  Today, had he been convicted of the sexual assault that it technically was -- he'd have to register.  But he's not likely to do that again...  (Hell...today he'd have been kicked out of school.  Fortunately, 25 years ago, it was handled better by both the school and authorities.)

Finally, as the *To Catch a Predator* shows highlight dramatically...  I'd be more worried about the folks that AREN'T registered.  And what kids are doing when they're supposedly safe at home.


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## ArmorOfGod (Jul 8, 2007)

jks9199 said:


> A few things about panicked reactions to sex offender registries...
> 
> To really assess the risk of the offenders around you, you have to know who is required to register. There is no uniform standard; some offenses that don't require registry in one state will in another. And not all registered offenders are registered for offenses that would pose a threat to you or your kids... For example, a guy I knew many years ago once kissed a girl's breast over her shirt in math class on a dare. Today, had he been convicted of the sexual assault that it technically was -- he'd have to register. But he's not likely to do that again... (Hell...today he'd have been kicked out of school. Fortunately, 25 years ago, it was handled better by both the school and authorities.)
> 
> Finally, as the *To Catch a Predator* shows highlight dramatically... I'd be more worried about the folks that AREN'T registered. And what kids are doing when they're supposedly safe at home.


 
Your last two sentences just reinforce my point more.
Now, as to the level of what each person did to earn their sex offender status, you can go to your official state website and see exactly what they were convicted of (or at least you can in my state).
If my kids were to walk three or four miles up the road, they would pass several men & women who were convicted of pretty bad things.
Here is one example:

http://services.sled.sc.gov/SOR/view.aspx?SRS=11750  That 40 year old lady likes to have sexual relations with 14 year olds.

http://services.sled.sc.gov/SOR/view.aspx?SRS=11979  That guy likes to have sexual relations with children "under 11" and has three convictions.

http://services.sled.sc.gov/SOR/view.aspx?SRS=15848  That guy is convicted of "incest" (no age listed).

This is not a matter of me being paranoid.  It is a matter of me culling the lists and seeing exactly who lives close to me and exactly what they did.
The bad guys are out there and they live close.  I am not imagining things.

BTW, on our state list I found a black belt that I came up with who apparently likes to rape adult women in his spare time now......

AoG


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## jks9199 (Jul 8, 2007)

ArmorOfGod said:


> Your last two sentences just reinforce my point more.
> Now, as to the level of what each person did to earn their sex offender status, you can go to your official state website and see exactly what they were convicted of (or at least you can in my state).
> If my kids were to walk three or four miles up the road, they would pass several men & women who were convicted of pretty bad things.
> ...
> ...


 
Which is the point I was trying to make.  The simple presence of a person on the list doesn't mean that they are a threat to you or your kids.  Don't just run the check, and run screaming 'cause you've got a guy living 3 miles from you on the list.  Find out why he's there, and what he's done.  Then make your decisions...  And prepare your family and friends appropriately, as well.

But, as I tried to say in those last two sentences -- you've got to realize that there is ALWAYS danger, and that some of the most dangerous times are when you think kids are safe.  I think that in the "good ol' days", when we spent most of our day outside, running around, climbing trees, skateboarding without helmets, and more...  we weren't being approached by 40 year olds looking to have sex with teens (or younger...ICK!).


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## qi-tah (Jul 9, 2007)

MA-Caver said:


> Wow, that must've been something for a 10 year-old to watch their parent literally sail away and wonder... they ARE coming back... aren't they??? Lots of love and trust there I'm sure.


 
Totally... Dad and i regularly went camping and sailing when i was a kid and i trusted him completly. He saved my life once when i was being pulled underwater in a rip... i would have followed him into any situation, confident he could get us home again safely. 



MA-Caver said:


> Question is... would you do the same with your kids today?


 
Well, i don't have kids and i don't plan to, but if i did... um, no. Those seals sometimes had pups and adult seals can move surprisingly fast!


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## MA-Caver (Jul 9, 2007)

qi-tah said:


> Well, I don't have kids and I don't plan to, but if I did... um, no. Those seals sometimes had pups and adult seals can move surprisingly fast!



Well apparently your Dad didn't have those concerns ... did he?


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## qi-tah (Jul 9, 2007)

MA-Caver said:


> Well apparently your Dad didn't have those concerns ... did he?


 
My Dad is a bit of a fly-by-the-seat-of-yr-pants adventure junkie... the danger probably never occured to him. It was the same deal when he took me skiing for the first time... he somehow thought a narrow, rock-littered black run was the perfect slope for a novice on their third day skiing. (perfect maybe for giving him a good laugh as i cartwheeled down the hill!) Mind you, i play into this mentality too... the "sure, why not? I can do this" kinda thing, totally unfounded in any experience!


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