# At Home Kenpo Training



## Yondanchris

Hello All, 

As most of you know I am a SKK guy, but I want to expand my training and experience through American Kenpo. 
I need an at home, at your own pace, DVD based training system. 
I have looked into AKLA (www.arnis.org), IKCA (www.karateconnection.com), 
WWKA (www.worldwidekenpo.com), or any others you know of. 
I appriciate your assistance in my journey!


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## MJS

Sandanchris said:


> Hello All,
> 
> As most of you know I am a SKK guy, but I want to expand my training and experience through American Kenpo.
> I need an at home, at your own pace, DVD based training system.
> I have looked into AKLA (www.arnis.org), IKCA (www.karateconnection.com),
> WWKA (www.worldwidekenpo.com), or any others you know of.
> I appriciate your assistance in my journey!


 
You could also check out Larry Tatums site. www.ltatum.com

You could also check out the casa de Kenpo videos on youtube. I believe both of those gentlemen trained under Larry.

Of course, being in CA, you have a huge number of sources.  You might want to look at some of the AK teachers there, and do privates.  

Good luck with whatever path you decide to take.


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## Touch Of Death

Sandanchris said:


> Hello All,
> 
> As most of you know I am a SKK guy, but I want to expand my training and experience through American Kenpo.
> I need an at home, at your own pace, DVD based training system.
> I have looked into AKLA (www.arnis.org), IKCA (www.karateconnection.com),
> WWKA (www.worldwidekenpo.com), or any others you know of.
> I appriciate your assistance in my journey!


www.kenpo2000.com will provide you with lots vids. 
Sean


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## Flying Crane

Chris, 

I cannot endorse video learning, no matter the video program, no matter who made the videos, no matter the system.  If you are learning solely from video, without face-to-face with a good instructor, I do not believe it is a good idea.

As a sandan in another system you do not need this, and I recommend you do not waste your time or money pursuing it.


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## Touch Of Death

Flying Crane said:


> Chris,
> 
> I cannot endorse video learning, no matter the video program, no matter who made the videos, no matter the system.  If you are learning solely from video, without face-to-face with a good instructor, I do not believe it is a good idea.
> 
> As a sandan in another system you do not need this, and I recommend you do not waste your time or money pursuing it.


So, even with a solid base, in rooting and what not, you think vids are of no value. I used to be involved in video production for the Army, and to some extent I agree that not everyone can learn from a vid, but I think you are being a bit too critical. There are words being spoken, examples shown, rewind capabilities, slow motion, and some fifth thing. Think of it as a book that you can see... an illustrated primer, if you will.
Sean


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## Flying Crane

Touch Of Death said:


> So, even with a solid base, in rooting and what not, you think vids are of no value. I used to be involved in video production for the Army, and to some extent I agree that not everyone can learn from a vid, but I think you are being a bit too critical. There are words being spoken, examples shown, rewind capabilities, slow motion, and some fifth thing. Think of it a book that you can see... an illustrated primer, if you will.
> Sean


 
I believe that video has no value as the only method, or as the first mode of learning.  If he is working with a good instructor, and is using video as a reference when working on material that he has already learned from that instructor, then I believe it can be a valuable tool.

The fact that he is a sandan, and at least SHOULD have a solid foundation and knowledge and skill in his current system, is what makes me say that he has no need for this.  He's already ahead of the game and what potential the video MAY hold has little value for him.  If his skills are so poor that he actually needs this, then his problems are bigger than finding the "right" video program.  He needs to start all over with a good teacher instead.

The way he applies his foundation in his current system may be significantly different from how the video expects him to do it, how a different kenpo system expects it.  Different systems can do basic things quite differently.  Applying the foundation of one system to another system is no guarantee that it will work.

If one is solid with his system, it is possible to use video to get examples and ideas, that MAY be translatable into the base system.  There's nothing wrong with looking at video for this purpose, if you are taking these ideas and deliberately adapting pieces to what you already do.  But this is cherry picking with a deliberate purpose and he needs to be clear in his own mind as to what his intent is.

If his intent is to systematically learn a whole kenpo system, then it's a bad idea and his background dictates that he doesn't need it and it's a waste of his time.


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## Touch Of Death

Flying Crane said:


> I believe that video has no value as the only method, or as the first mode of learning.  If he is working with a good instructor, and is using video as a reference when working on material that he has already learned from that instructor, then I believe it can be a valuable tool.
> 
> The fact that he is a sandan, and at least SHOULD have a solid foundation and knowledge and skill in his current system, is what makes me say that he has no need for this.  He's already ahead of the game and what potential the video MAY hold has little value for him.  If his skills are so poor that he actually needs this, then his problems are bigger than finding the "right" video program.  He needs to start all over with a good teacher instead.
> 
> The way he applies his foundation in his current system may be significantly different from how the video expects him to do it, how a different kenpo system expects it.  Different systems can do basic things quite differently.  Applying the foundation of one system to another system is no guarantee that it will work.
> 
> If one is solid with his system, it is possible to use video to get examples and ideas, that MAY be translatable into the base system.  There's nothing wrong with looking at video for this purpose, if you are taking these ideas and deliberately adapting pieces to what you already do.  But this is cherry picking with a deliberate purpose and he needs to be clear in his own mind as to what his intent is.
> 
> If his intent is to systematically learn a whole kenpo system, then it's a bad idea and his background dictates that he doesn't need it and it's a waste of his time.


A waste of time unless of course you want to familiarize yourself with Ed Parker's Kenpo . I can't help but think you are a champion for traditional ways of instruction, and will not be happy until everyone is learning Martial Arts in someone's garage or basement, but I believe that people can learn without standing  next to a cat box or sniffing gasoline.
Sean


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## Flying Crane

well, I am a champion of traditional ways as far as feeling that instruction needs to be face-to-face and hands-on

I understand that there are topics that can be taught thru books and video media.  Intellectual topics like mathematics, can work this way.  Even some physical activities can work this way.  One could use books or video to learn to change a tire on a car, or build a bicycle wheel, for example.

However, the martial arts are a different animal.  It isn't just movement, "wave your arms like this, step here", etc.  There are specific ways, with a lot of sublety to step, to punch, to move, and that doesn't get conveyed thru video, without a live teacher.  This is why martial arts are a subject that cannot be taught in this manner, not with real quality.

Obviously Chris can do what he wants with this.  If he chooses to pursue video instruction, so be it.  He's an adult and can make his own choices.

However, when people express this desire, to pursue video instruction, I will speak up and tell them that it's not a good idea.  I'm not going to cheerfully wave him on and wish him best of luck and tell him it's a great way to go about it.  I think that's misleading and I will be honest with my viewpoint.

Others will encourage him on this endeavor.  That's their opinion.

Ultimately it's his choice to make and succeed or fail as he may.


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## TaiChiTJ

The IKCA universe includes seminars given at various places around the country, like Las Vegas, New Orleans etc. 

That's at least some exposure to hands on. 

Good Luck with whatever way you go.


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## Yondanchris

Or I was thinking of trying to find a local instructor who would be willing to review my material (private lessons) on an infriquent basis, Im not looking to move up quickly but 
to offset and balance my current knowledge. I know of many great youtube contributors that provide great instruction/review on AK concepts/forms/techniques that I could glean from and assist in my training. 

Anyone know of somone who would be willing to do this in the Los Angeles area? 
(perhaps that would be a different thred, but I digress!) 

Chris


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## Flying Crane

Sandanchris said:


> Or I was thinking of trying to find a local instructor who would be willing to review my material (private lessons) on an infriquent basis, Im not looking to move up quickly but
> to offset and balance my current knowledge. I know of many great youtube contributors that provide great instruction/review on AK concepts/forms/techniques that I could glean from and assist in my training.
> 
> Anyone know of somone who would be willing to do this in the Los Angeles area?
> (perhaps that would be a different thred, but I digress!)
> 
> Chris


 
Hi Chris,

this raises other problems, actually.  Here's the thing:  there really is no "Parker Kenpo".  There is no unity in the kenpo world, even amonst folks who studied directly under Mr. Parker.  Nobody seems to do things the same way.  Some differences can be subtle, but that subtlety can make big differences.  Some differences are glaring.  If you use the instructional videos of one guy, and then go and have a review session with some other guy, I think you are going to end up spinning your wheels a lot.  I wouldn't be surprised if nobody would want to review you if you are working off someone else's videos, because it just raises too many problems with consistency.

Ya really gotta become someone's student.  You need to develop that ongoing relationship and get repeated corrections on what you are doing.  There are no shortcuts.

You've already got a background that should be solid.  So you should know how to practice and how to train yourself.  I still say that given your current background YOU DON'T NEED THIS, but if you are determined to pursue it...OK, the best thing to do is to find an instructor you trust and attend his class.  Even if it means once a week, or once every couple of weeks or once a month.  You've already got the experience to know how to practice.  So take what you learn from him and then practice.  But stick to the lessons, and go as frequently as you can, and forget the videos.

The Los Angeles area is the Parker-lineage kenpo mecca of the world.  You ought to be able to find someone there.

that's my suggestion.


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## MJS

Sandanchris said:


> Or I was thinking of trying to find a local instructor who would be willing to review my material (private lessons) on an infriquent basis, Im not looking to move up quickly but
> to offset and balance my current knowledge. I know of many great youtube contributors that provide great instruction/review on AK concepts/forms/techniques that I could glean from and assist in my training.
> 
> Anyone know of somone who would be willing to do this in the Los Angeles area?
> (perhaps that would be a different thred, but I digress!)
> 
> Chris


 
I suggested the privates to you and this is the route that I would go.  I'm sure someone would be willing to help you out.


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## MJS

To clarify my stance on video learning....I agree with FC and I've said it a million times myself.  Inst. tapes are good for a reference.  I've been training in Kenpo for over 20yrs.  I could easily grab one of Larrys tapes and use it if I was unsure of a tech or kata.  Could I take a TKD tape and expect to really learn a kata or SD?  Possibly, but its not going to look as good as if I got live instruction.  If you have never done the art, its gonna be hard.  The fine points are not covered in a dvd, I dont care what anyone says, they're not going to be there.


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## Flying Crane

Hey Chris,

could you give us a bit of clarification?  What is it that attracts you to doing this, and what are you hoping to ultimately get from the experience?  Do you perceive deficits in your current training, that you feel a Parker-lineage kenpo might fix?  Is it purely personal curiosity and interest?  What is your motivation with this?

thanks.


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## Yondanchris

Flying Crane said:


> Hey Chris,
> 
> could you give us a bit of clarification? What is it that attracts you to doing this, and what are you hoping to ultimately get from the experience? Do you perceive deficits in your current training, that you feel a Parker-lineage kenpo might fix? Is it purely personal curiosity and interest? What is your motivation with this?
> 
> thanks.


 
Thanks for all the great comments FC! 

I have been attracted to AK after I was involved in SKK many years ago,
but never had "easy" access to an instructor in my area 
(Orange County, CA). Since then I have really looked into the AK system and I see a 
thoroughness that I did not see in SKK, especially when looking at concepts 
and the universal pattern. I see a lot of similarities in the two systems. 
My lineage of SKK comes through Nick Cerio and I believe that my training 
in SKK could be well complimented with the systematic approach that 
GM Parker has given AK!


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## Carol

In other words, you need the training credits in part to promote to 4th Dan with Karate for Christ?


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## Flying Crane

Sandanchris said:


> Thanks for all the great comments FC!
> 
> I have been attracted to AK after I was involved in SKK many years ago,
> but never had "easy" access to an instructor in my area
> (Orange County, CA). Since then I have really looked into the AK system and I see a
> thoroughness that I did not see in SKK, especially when looking at concepts
> and the universal pattern. I see a lot of similarities in the two systems.
> My lineage of SKK comes through Nick Cerio and I believe that my training
> in SKK could be well complimented with the systematic approach that
> GM Parker has given AK!


 
Hi Chris,

thanks for the note.  

I will stand by my earlier comments.  If you want to learn this for real, and not just as a mimickry, then you need a teacher, and you need the relationship that goes along with that.  In my opinion, that is the only way to do it any justice, to get anything out of it.  Anything else is just playing games.  

Seriously, my advice is get with a teacher or forget it.  Put the videos out of your mind.


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## Yondanchris

Carol said:


> In other words, you need the training credits in part to promote to 4th Dan with Karate for Christ?


 
Fortunately that is not the case Carol, 

 For KFCI all I need is a positive character report from the community and organization, time in rank, examination of skill and knowledge, and a written report on a biblical or martial arts topic. 

Although traditionally in my old dojo, one would have to learn another style before testing for their 5th Dan. I am going to hold myself to this "old" tradition because I believe it will 
open my eyes to a larger scope of Kenpo/Kempo and influence my ability as an instructor. 

Grace and Peace, 

Chris


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## Carol

That's not a bad goal to have.  It is a substantial goal to have, props to you for taking it on.  You may know, or have heard of, Mr. Bill Parsons in Raleigh, NC -- he posts here and on KenpoTalk as bdparsons.  

He was in a similar situation to where you are now, in that he earned a 3rd dan in Hapkido before taking the IKCA course.  He has always been gracious enough to let me sit in on his classes when I visit my family in NC.  I think he is a terrific instructor, and a good example of a fellow that has done very well with the program that Messrs. Sullivan and LeRoux put together.  He loves talking about the IKCA, I'd suggest contacting him directly (feel free to say I sent you if you like) and asking him for more insight.

Personally I think live training under a live instructor is best, but if that just isn't possible, the IKCA may have some good options for you.

Good luck with your journey, however you decide. :asian:


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## Flying Crane

Sandanchris said:


> Although traditionally in my old dojo, one would have to learn another style before testing for their 5th Dan. I am going to hold myself to this "old" tradition because I believe it will
> open my eyes to a larger scope of Kenpo/Kempo and influence my ability as an instructor.
> 
> Grace and Peace,
> 
> Chris



hmmm... how much of another style is required?  I hate to say it but I see another sort of can of worms here...

Do you learn the basics of a style?  So for example if you learned Yellow and Orange and Purple belt curriculum in a Parker Kenpo lineage, would that be enough?  If so, does that merit a jump in Dan Grade in your organization?  Or do you need to advance to shodan level in the second style, and that is given a dan grade jump in your org?

Learning any style can be a lifetime endeavor.  I personally find it unusual to use that as a ranking requirement for an organization.

more enlightenment, if you will?


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## Yondanchris

Flying Crane said:


> hmmm... how much of another style is required? I hate to say it but I see another sort of can of worms here...
> 
> Do you learn the basics of a style? So for example if you learned Yellow and Orange and Purple belt curriculum in a Parker Kenpo lineage, would that be enough? If so, does that merit a jump in Dan Grade in your organization? Or do you need to advance to shodan level in the second style, and that is given a dan grade jump in your org?
> 
> Learning any style can be a lifetime endeavor. I personally find it unusual to use that as a ranking requirement for an organization.
> 
> more enlightenment, if you will?


 
In my old dojo, it was required that you earn at least shodan in another style before meeting any of the other qualifications for 5th dan. 

I will say again that this is *not* required of me through KFCI, but I think it would broaden the scope of my experience.


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## Flying Crane

Sandanchris said:


> In my old dojo, it was required that you earn at least shodan in another style before meeting any of the other qualifications for 5th dan.
> 
> I will say again that this is *not* required of me through KFCI, but I think it would broaden the scope of my experience.



I agree that it will broaden the scope of your experience.  I've trained in several systems over the years and I can attest to that.  It carries a lot of benefits, as well as some drawbacks, but overall the experiences that I've had have been positive.  Ultimately I narrowed my focus to one system that seems to be the best match for me personally, and that is where I spend my energies.

I will just say that I find it an odd requirement for advancement in one system, to say that one must earn rank in another.  That's my view, regardless of the benefits that may be derived from the practice itself.


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## Carol

I have heard of this before, there are schools outside of Kenpo that require or suggest this for a higher dan rank such as 5th.

Personally I like the way Sandan Chris is going about this as a voluntary challenge.  For one, that takes a lot of initiative.  I'm a tad queasy about the idea of requiring someone to earn rank in another system...some folks truly do not prefer to cross-train.  Others do, and there are definitely benefits.


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## Yondanchris

I think I will go with AKLA belt by belt, especially with the amount of resources that are out there and my previous experience, I think I will be able to learn the white-purple material relatively easily! Thank you all for your input! 

Chris


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## Flying Crane

Carol said:


> I have heard of this before, there are schools outside of Kenpo that require or suggest this for a higher dan rank such as 5th.
> 
> Personally I like the way Sandan Chris is going about this as a voluntary challenge. For one, that takes a lot of initiative. I'm a tad queasy about the idea of requiring someone to earn rank in another system...some folks truly do not prefer to cross-train. Others do, and there are definitely benefits.


 
If this is his personal interest, to study another system, I absolutely agree and wish him well with it.  It can be very worth while to spend time studying other systems, even if you eventually abandon them.  The benefits from that experience will be worth it regardless.

What makes me uneasy about making it a requirement for rank advancement is that it sort of demotes a separate system to the status of sub-set under some other system.  I think that's an inappropriate way of viewing it, and carries a high risk of not treating the material as seriously as it deserves.  I see all too often when people try to include too many things under one all-encompassing umbrella, that the individual component systems get neglected and aren't studied for their own merit.  They become an add-on, with only a superficial examination.  In reality, each of those systems has the depth to stand on its own and should not be seen as a sub-set of an unrelated system.

In my opinion, rank in one system should be all about that one system.  The study of any other system, and rank therein, should be a separate issue judged on its own merits, and should not influence further ranking in the first system.

getting off topic here, but that's how I see it.


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## Yondanchris

Okay another update, 

 I have decided to study 2 new styles: Shinsei Kenpo and American Kenpo. 

Shinsei Kenpo is an eclectic style of AK, SKK, Arnis, BJJ put together by Prof Phil Lewis. 
It is an entirely Christian based MA. I will be testing and training via video lessons and 
video chat online. www.shepherdwarriors.us

I should be starting AK private lessons in the next couple of weeks with a well qualified 
1st generation black belt in the next town over. My goal is to take it slow...
one technique at a time...especially after the seminar this last saturday!!

I have always wanted to learn AK and now I am giving myself the chance! 

Thanks for all of your advice and opinions. 

Chris


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## Mass

http://www.shepherdwarriors.us/

Is this site down? I clicked on it and nothing!


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## Kenpo17

My instructor is Mr. Palanzo.  Mr. Palanzo is the president of the WKKA (Worldwide Kenpo Karate Association) and has DVD's for levels 1-3 of the American Kenpo system.  I know he does a great job at explaining each technique before he performs it, then does each technique slow before doing it in "real life" speed.  I own all three DVD's so I know first hand that Mr. Palanzo is an extraordinary teacher.


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## yorkshirelad

Kenpo17 said:


> My instructor is Mr. Palanzo. Mr. Palanzo is the president of the WKKA (Worldwide Kenpo Karate Association) and has DVD's for levels 1-3 of the American Kenpo system. I know he does a great job at explaining each technique before he performs it, then does each technique slow before doing it in "real life" speed. I own all three DVD's so I know first hand that Mr. Palanzo is an extraordinary teacher.


 
Levels 1-3?


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## OKenpo942

Kenpo17 said:


> My instructor is Mr. Palanzo. Mr. Palanzo is the president of the WKKA (Worldwide Kenpo Karate Association) and has DVD's for levels 1-3 of the American Kenpo system. I know he does a great job at explaining each technique before he performs it, then does each technique slow before doing it in "real life" speed. I own all three DVD's so I know first hand that Mr. Palanzo is an extraordinary teacher.


 
I am sure that I am not the only one who is unfamiliar with levels 1 - 3 in EPAK. I am aware of the 3 phases of kenpo, but not levels.

Could you please explain what your are referring to in your post? It could be a simple case of semantics. Thank you.

James


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