# The Move from Taekwondo to Muay Thai



## Independent_TKD (Aug 29, 2007)

I've recently started taking Muay Thai classes after having studied TKD for some years. Overall, I don't like the path organized TKD is traveling. With that said, my personal approach and teaching of TKD doesn't really resemble official TKD anymore. When I started teaching I decided to cut out the techniques that I believed were ineffective for self-defense, and I added the techniques I felt were missing. It ended up vaguely looking like Muay Thai. From people in the local TKD community, I received a lot of criticism. Also, it is more and more difficult to find adults that practice TKD (at least where I live).

Has anyone else moved from TKD over to Muay Thai. What was your experience. Did you find the switch difficult?


----------



## aplonis (Aug 29, 2007)

In our regional TKD org GM Monte Beghtol has a motto, "If it worked on me yesterday it's TKD today." So while our general cirricula originate from old time CDK with some influence from TSD, the central theme is genuine effectiveness.

A fair number of our BB's have cross-training in other arts like Jujutsu, Aikido, J udo, BJJ and others, even western wrestling. Those instructors are left free to add in whatever effective moves they know into their own school's cirricula so long as our own org's TKD elements are not subtracted from.

For BB testing it is an org-wide event. So that keeps the daughter schools from migrating away while adding on. Our own GM has his own TKD rank tracible to Korea up to 9th Dan. But he doesn't see it as particularly advantageous nor much recommend it to his own students.

So in one sense you could say we've migrated away in that respect. But from my own memories of TKD when I started back in the 70's it is certain that none of the core elements have changed. Much has been added in. And that in no way diminishes the art from my point of view.

I suggest you study Muay Thai, and any other arts, all that you like. But it does not require you to abandon even the least part of your successes in TKD. Enjoy.

WMTKD


----------



## Zero (Aug 30, 2007)

I think you should be fine.

I trained in TKD all through High School.  My foundation style now is goju ryu karate but I train a lot with MT fighters and enter their competitions fron time to time for the experience for MMA fighting which I prefer to compete in now.

I have found TKD as a basis is excellent; your kicking should be well equiped for head and torso attacks.  You may need to condition your shins for the more in-close leg attacks - both executing and performing leg checks/blocks (I use the heavy bag and MT bags for this and also trees in the back yard or when running in the woods).  I had also done a lot of wrestling and judo so have no problem with clinching in purely MT rules but if you have no background on this, you will want to get used to maintaining stability and to be aware of blocking/negating pull-downs on the neck for knee attacks to jaw/torso when in clinch.

You may also need to get used to the concept of performing leg attacks with the shin, rather than with the upper face or side of foot - when you get effectively checked with a shin block this can hurt the foot like hell.

I still love of a lot of the TKD kicks, it's just that I'd never try them in a competition and certainly not on the street - all the flash is fun but nothing more the BS - as is the case with most sports-sides of martial arts.

Maybe try throwing in some grappling training and boxing if you get the time for complementing/ completing your self-defence skills if you're interested in this aspect.  As I have found in mma if you can get the average MT guy on the ground they're in trouble (this goes for any skill not focusing on ground work) - I never want to take anyone to the ground in a brawl as you never know how many others there will be but sometimes you just end up there.


----------



## Giorgio (Aug 31, 2007)

I agree with you, independent TKD. I do not like the style TKD is going in, in sport circles. I trained briefly, for about six months in TKD right at the beginning of my martial arts training, and although you could say that this isn't enough to really get into a martial art, I could see from the start it was going in completely the wrong direction. the emphasis was on one-point sparring, and forms, which are very much contrary to placing yourself in the flow of a fight, and reacting to each individual stimulus the opponent provides. Muay thai training provides this much better, I find, as it seeks to provide you with the tools and the training to handle any fight, not dictate to the student what the fight should look like. 

When I'm going around in jeans and a shirt, I sometimes think about how difficult it would be to pull off a side-kick to the torso, let alone the head, and how easy it would be to snap off a low kick to the side of the knee, or take a clinch and throw the opponent to the floor. I just find muay thai much more practical in every day life, and much more honest about what fighting is really like.


----------



## Independent_TKD (Aug 31, 2007)

I like the fact that muay thai is practical and doesn't focus on a forms system so much. When I question the usefulness of TKD forms, most TKD'ers get really defensive and either claim I was never taught properly or I am not serious enough of a martial artist to discover the "hidden" techniques within the forms. 

Obviously I don't see it this way. I have a good deal of MA experience and don't feel students should have to dissect forms to find their meaning. I like that when I go to the muai thai class, we practice what works and learn the hard way what doesn't work. It is straight to the point and I think students are overall better served with this kind of approach. 

I think if a person comes to a martial arts class/discipline/system/whatever and does not genuinely want to develop real world effectiveness, maybe martial arts is not the activity for that person. Perhaps yoga, pilates, or dance would be better. As it stands now, I have personally seen many black belts with absolutely no contact sparring experience. For me, it's like saying you have a black belt in yoga. It is a great personal accomplishment, but it doesn't make you a martial artist in the true sense.


----------



## terryl965 (Aug 31, 2007)

Dear Sir your commit about contact sparring really does not prepare you for real street defense. It is a great tool to help build the reflexes you may need but it does nothing in the matter of which you say.
Further more about the hidden meaning in poomsae I'm sure you mean finding the way of each strike and appropiate measure of SD in which there are.

I like someone that does multiple fighting Arts but remember in any art, the art is only as good as the person doing it. If one believe this is best suited for them great but remember almost all arts are like a game with rules and such that must be followed during training.

I wish you a fine journey and great training.


----------



## Independent_TKD (Aug 31, 2007)

> contact sparring really does not prepare you for real street defense


 
If it is done right, I think it _better_ prepares you for a real situation. As we all know, there are no guarantees. I agree, the art is only as good as the person doing it. Usually, we are talking about average young adults that practice these arts. From day one, students must get on a path of progression. Yes, the art is only as good as the person but the instructors approach is supposed to bring out the best in the student. 

I have seen some great TKD schools. However, I am seeing less and less these days. I've seen several in my area where classes were taught by teen black belts whose skills were clearly not to the black belt level. This is common, and not the exeption.

TKD as a martial art can be very effective. My only problem is how it is generally taught in most schools I see in my area. As a TKD instructor and martial artist, I see things that I believe can be improved upon. However, when I raise these issue with the people I teach TKD with, I usually meet with negative criticism and disregard, even though I've practiced the art for over a decade.  

To be fair, nearly every technique seen in muay thai is present in TKD. The major difference I see is in the intensity, goal, and approach to training. I really wish there were more good TKD school, as I'm sure your is. In my area and the surrounding cities, I just don't see that many.


----------



## terryl965 (Aug 31, 2007)

Independent_TKD said:


> If it is done right, I think it _better_ prepares you for a real situation. As we all know, there are no guarantees. I agree, the art is only as good as the person doing it. Usually, we are talking about average young adults that practice these arts. From day one, students must get on a path of progression. Yes, the art is only as good as the person but the instructors approach is supposed to bring out the best in the student.
> 
> I have seen some great TKD schools. However, I am seeing less and less these days. I've seen several in my area where classes were taught by teen black belts whose skills were clearly not to the black belt level. This is common, and not the exeption.
> 
> ...


 

I concur there are alot of Mc Dojo's out there and this is a major problem in the art itself. I do wish you the best of luck and keep training and learning all that you can learn.:asian:


----------



## Thunder Foot (Sep 14, 2007)

I made the transfer from TKD to Muay Thai, and I found it quite easy. I was an Instructor of TKD, such as yourself... and I did the same exact thing... added techniques that I felt were important in the growth of my students. I can't say that I ended up with something similar to MT, but the  style of TKD I was teaching was much different from my parent & sister schools at the time. May I ask, what style of TKD do you practice?


----------



## Independent_TKD (Sep 15, 2007)

Like most people, I started with the WTF style. About five years ago, I started re-examining the practicality of TKD. Since then, I have practiced and taught my own variation. As you said, it doesn't look much like WTF anymore, nor would I want it to. For me, it was very important that what I was devoting so much time to would actually work on the street if I ever needed it. When I only knew the WTF style, I could not confidently say that.


----------



## Thunder Foot (Sep 25, 2007)

Well, I will go to say you never know what can/can't work on the street. That being said, both Muay Thai and WTF are Martial Sports. So if you are teaching your students a variation, you have to make clear what is self-defense, and what is cirriculum. Some things may be tranferrable, like cut-kicking... while others may not. All in all, I don't see any reason why some should look down on it.


----------



## Drag'n (Sep 26, 2007)

I also Started MT after many years of TKD.
I found habbits from TKD actually interfered with MT at first,(sideways stance, snapping kicks, contact with instep...etc) so I just tried to drop all my TKD thinking, and focus on pure MT.
Then once my MT base was strong I started intergrating them.
I found though that there wasn't much from TKD that was needed. MT pretty much has all you need.
But I still use back spinning kicks/back fists and axe kicks. They can catch kickboxers off guard sometimes. 
The flexibility , speed and technical skill I gained through my TKD training really helped me in my MT training. And gave me a tendency to go for high kick KOs


----------



## Slihn (Oct 13, 2007)

Independent_TKD said:


> I've recently started taking Muay Thai classes after having studied TKD for some years. Overall, I don't like the path organized TKD is traveling. With that said, my personal approach and teaching of TKD doesn't really resemble official TKD anymore. When I started teaching I decided to cut out the techniques that I believed were ineffective for self-defense, and I added the techniques I felt were missing. It ended up vaguely looking like Muay Thai. From people in the local TKD community, I received a lot of criticism. Also, it is more and more difficult to find adults that practice TKD (at least where I live).
> 
> Has anyone else moved from TKD over to Muay Thai. What was your experience. Did you find the switch difficult?


 
Welcome to Earth


----------



## Jai (Oct 14, 2007)

I as well do not like the "Sport aspect" that most TKD is now geared to. If I had a MT group around me I would join in a heart beat. I've done some kickboxing and MT and found it fairly easy to adapt to. It is all a matter of your willingness to dedicate yourself to a new way. Good Luck to you.


----------



## thaistyle (Oct 14, 2007)

You should be fine.  I have known a few guys that trained in TKD and TSD that made the move to muay thai.  One made the move after he recieved his 1st degree black belt.  Sometimes it's best not to be limited to one particular martial art!


----------



## Omar B (Nov 23, 2007)

Independent_TKD said:


> Also, it is more and more difficult to find adults that practice TKD (at least where I live).



I found this problem looking for a dojang.  I've got 2 of them near my house and thought it would be easy to sign up at one of them and work out (my background is in Seido Karate).  I noticed that TKD seems to be the realm of children for the most part.  The workouts don't seem as brutal as they should be, a lot of kids talking and wondering around.  Both dojangs disappointed me and I would think it would disappointed other adults as well.

I think TKD is a gorgeous style but coming from a karate background and having gone through really rough and heavy training, lots of sparring and  yes fighting in class it seems a whole different type of experience.

I guess in my opinion, if TKD were moved closer to it's karate and fighting background I would totally love it.


----------



## cohenp (Nov 25, 2007)

I have never trained at TKD but I have done some MT and I always felt that I really learned what worked for me personally when I was sparring. Sure I can execute whatever move against air and think it works or whatever, but then when I'm  getting punched in the face and then trying to execute it feels like I have to take my combinations or whatever to a higher level to be able to execute them. 

The other thing I learned in full go sparring is what it feels like to take a shot in the face. It was something I had never really felt before and for the first bit it throws you off and it's hard to concentrate. But after getting tagged a couple times you learn to shake it off better and how to execute through things like that. I think that would make a huge difference in a street fight.


----------



## Zero (Nov 30, 2007)

I did TKD for a few years and although I feel my kicking skills and flexibility to this day greatly benefited from the skill levels required under TKD I moved away from my club and into a karate club nearby which I found was much more full on in its hard training and fighting and more applicable to real life/street situations in that they focused as much on punching and kicking - simple effective low and high kicks - and put plenty of submission and ground/jujitsu work in as well.  

This may be why you too drifted into MT and away from TKD.  But I would hope there are TKD clubs out there still fully grounded in effective training and not just all about flashy kicks executed at waffer thin boards held by a dude sitting on someone's shoulders.


----------

