# French Military History in a Nutshell



## The Master

*[FONT=Verdana,Geneva,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-Serif]French Military History in a Nutshell[/FONT]* 

*Gallic Wars*: Lost. In a war whose ending foreshadows the next 2000 years of French history, France is conquered by of all things, an Italian.

*Hundred Years War*: Mostly lost, saved at last by a female schizophrenic who inadvertently creates The First Rule of French Warfare - "France's armies are victorious only when not led by a Frenchmen." 

*Italian Wars*: Lost. France becomes the first and only country ever to lose two wars when fighting Italians. 

*Wars of Religion:* France goes 0-5-4 against the Huguenots. 

*Thirty Years' War*: France is technically not a participant, but manages to get invaded anyway. Claims a tie on the basis that eventually the other participants started ignoring her. 

*War of Devolution*: Tied; Frenchmen take to wearing red flowerpots as chapeaux. 

*The Dutch War*: Tied. 

*War of the Augsburg League/King William's War/French and Indian War:* Lost, but claimed as a tie. Deluded Frogophiles the world over label the period as the height of French Military Power. 

*War of the Spanish Succession*: Lost. The War also gave the French their first taste of a Marlborough, which they have loved ever since. 

*American Revolution:* In a move that will become quite familiar to future Americans, France claims a win even though the English colonists saw far more action. This is later known as "de Gaulle Syndrome", and leads to the Second Rule of French Warfare: "France only wins when America does most of the fighting". 

*French Revolution*: Won, primarily due to the fact that the opponent was also French. 

*The Napoleonic Wars*: Lost. Temporary victories (remember the First Rule!) due to leadership of a Corsican, who ended up being no match for a British footwear designer. 

*The Franco-Prussian War*: Lost. Germany first plays the role of drunk Frat boy to France's ugly girl home alone on a Saturday night. 

*WWI*: Tied and on the way to losing, France is saved by the United States. Thousands of French women find out what it's like not only to sleep with a winner, but one who doesn't call her "Fraulein." Sadly, widespread use of condoms by American forces forestalls any improvement in the French bloodline. 

*WWII*: Lost. Conquered French liberated by the United States and Britain just as they finish learning the Horst Wessel Song. 

*War in Indochina*: Lost. French forces plead sickness, take to bed with Dien Bien Flu. 

*Algerian Rebellion*: Lost. Loss marks the first defeat of a Western army by a Non-Turkic Muslim force since the Crusades, and produces the First Rule of Muslim Warfare -"We can always beat the French." This rule is identical to the First Rules of the Italians, Russians, Germans, English, Dutch, Spanish, Vietnamese, and Eskimos. 

*War on Terrorism:* France, keeping in mind its recent history, surrenders to Germans and Muslims just to be safe.


----------



## Xue Sheng

I should probably just leave and not comment but. I cant

Yes and don't forget the historical significance of the Maginot Line and its contribution to french warfare.


----------



## The Master

I remember that. A billion dollars in fixed fortifications that the enemy drove around, knocked on their doors and asked for sugar.


----------



## Andrew Green

The French get a lot of crap for there military history, and really, it's not deserved.

England and France where back and forth and more or less equal for a long time.  In WW1 and WW2 they got there butts kicked, but I think just about any country in there geographic location would have.  They where also the ones that fought the hardest to keep Germany in place after WW1, but England and the US wouldn't support them, prefering more to let Germany get back in the market as a profitable potential trading partner.

The US esspecially, sat back and made money while Europe fought.  They got involved in WW1 because German U-Boats where sinking there merchant ships that they where using to do so.  After the war they isolated themselves where Europe kind of thought that since they made all that cash selling weapons and supplies selling to Europe, as well as taking over control of the other American countries that where previously under European control, they should perhaps help out a little in rebuilding.

WW2 came along and the US again stayed out till pretty much the end, and only got in because the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbour.

France survived the wars, despite being the battleground for a good chunk of it.  Other nations fell apart.  Russia collapsed into civil war and ended up going through revolution and forced to pull out of WW1.  The Ottoman empire collapse and got divided into smaller states controlled by other European powers.  

France got there butts kicked, but they where also the ones on the front lines.  The US was on the other side of the world.  England had its own island, they got bombed good, but never had ground fighting on the same level as France.

The Maginot line...  yes... mistake there, big one.  It might have worked pretty well, if it had been complete.  Unfortunately the enemy was able to just go around it.


----------



## Xue Sheng

The Master said:


> I remember that. A billion dollars in fixed fortifications that the enemy drove around, knocked on their doors and asked for sugar.


 
:lfao:


----------



## Bob Hubbard

There was a battle, I forget exactly when, where the French were using hired crossbowmen.  The CB's were in front, and due to terrain were forced farther up than was smart, and were forced to leave their shields behind. When the CB's began taking heavy longbow fire from the English army, they did the smart thing and withdrew.  So the French, intelligent military minds that they were, cut down their own men.  This left the English with the only ranged weapons on the battlefield.

End result?
2 English nobles dead.

The French Nobility was decimated.


----------



## Andrew Green

Canadians burnt down the white house in 1812.  William Wallace defeated the English on a couple of occasions.  Jon of Acr won a couple really impressive victories.  In WW1 all sides sent infantry attacks against machine gun armed trenches only to get slaughtered.  Julius Cesar entered Rome, took control of the city with a single legion, and ended up winning a civil war. Every country has battles I'm sure they'd rather forget in there past.


----------



## Jonathan Randall

Andrew Green said:


> Canadians burnt down the white house in 1812. William Wallace defeated the English on a couple of occasions. Jon of Acr won a couple really impressive victories. In WW1 all sides sent infantry attacks against machine gun armed trenches only to get slaughtered. Julius Cesar entered Rome, took control of the city with a single legion, and ended up winning a civil war. Every country has battles I'm sure they'd rather forget in there past.


 

Bingo. Most Americans would like to forget (and succeed admirably) that we fought and rather spectacularly LOST a brief border war with Canada in 1812.


----------



## Jonathan Randall

Bob Hubbard said:


> There was a battle, I forget exactly when, where the French were using hired crossbowmen. The CB's were in front, and due to terrain were forced farther up than was smart, and were forced to leave their shields behind. When the CB's began taking heavy longbow fire from the English army, they did the smart thing and withdrew. So the French, intelligent military minds that they were, cut down their own men. This left the English with the only ranged weapons on the battlefield.
> 
> End result?
> 2 English nobles dead.
> 
> The French Nobility was decimated.


 
Crecy?


----------



## Bob Hubbard

"Canadians burnt down the white house in 1812."
1600 Pennsylvania Ave. Bring extra matches.  

A few losses over centuries doesn't hurt, when theres a regular amount, well....

http://www.militaryfactory.com/battles/french_military_victories.asp
1214-2003
Wins - 34/33 (Were there any French forces on the Allied side at Normandy?)
Draws - 9
Losses - 28


----------



## Bob Hubbard

Jonathan Randall said:


> Crecy?


Sounds right
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Crécy


----------



## Kreth

Andrew Green said:


> Canadians burnt down the white house in 1812.


Urban legend, or at best an extremely loose definition of "Canada." Read this.


----------



## Andrew Green

Since the British North American act was signed in 1867 I don't need to read whatever it is to know that it's a loose definition of "Canada" 

But I did, and it said the same thing 

We all know that, in 1812 "Canada" as a country didn't exist.  But that's ok, we still burnt down your white house 



> Were there any French forces on the Allied side at Normandy?



And where was the US during the first few years of each war? Oh right, nice and safe on the other side of the ocean, where as France was the front line pretty much on day 1.


----------



## Kreth

Andrew Green said:


> We all know that, in 1812 "Canada" as a country didn't exist.  But that's ok, we still burnt down your white house


I think you missed this quote from that link:


> ...the forces that burned the White House were British colonial troops.





> And where was the US during the first few years of each war? Oh right, nice and safe on the other side of the ocean, where as France was the front line pretty much on day 1.


How does that quote go? "France only wants the US to go to war if there are Germans marching down the Champs Elysee."

Or something...


----------



## Tames D

The Master said:


> *[FONT=Verdana,Geneva,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-Serif]French Military History in a Nutshell[/FONT]*
> 
> *Gallic Wars*: Lost. In a war whose ending foreshadows the next 2000 years of French history, France is conquered by of all things, an Italian.
> 
> *Hundred Years War*: Mostly lost, saved at last by a female schizophrenic who inadvertently creates The First Rule of French Warfare - "France's armies are victorious only when not led by a Frenchmen."
> 
> *Italian Wars*: Lost. France becomes the first and only country ever to lose two wars when fighting Italians.
> 
> *Wars of Religion:* France goes 0-5-4 against the Huguenots.
> 
> *Thirty Years' War*: France is technically not a participant, but manages to get invaded anyway. Claims a tie on the basis that eventually the other participants started ignoring her.
> 
> *War of Devolution*: Tied; Frenchmen take to wearing red flowerpots as chapeaux.
> 
> *The Dutch War*: Tied.
> 
> *War of the Augsburg League/King William's War/French and Indian War:* Lost, but claimed as a tie. Deluded Frogophiles the world over label the period as the height of French Military Power.
> 
> *War of the Spanish Succession*: Lost. The War also gave the French their first taste of a Marlborough, which they have loved ever since.
> 
> *American Revolution:* In a move that will become quite familiar to future Americans, France claims a win even though the English colonists saw far more action. This is later known as "de Gaulle Syndrome", and leads to the Second Rule of French Warfare: "France only wins when America does most of the fighting".
> 
> *French Revolution*: Won, primarily due to the fact that the opponent was also French.
> 
> *The Napoleonic Wars*: Lost. Temporary victories (remember the First Rule!) due to leadership of a Corsican, who ended up being no match for a British footwear designer.
> 
> *The Franco-Prussian War*: Lost. Germany first plays the role of drunk Frat boy to France's ugly girl home alone on a Saturday night.
> 
> *WWI*: Tied and on the way to losing, France is saved by the United States. Thousands of French women find out what it's like not only to sleep with a winner, but one who doesn't call her "Fraulein." Sadly, widespread use of condoms by American forces forestalls any improvement in the French bloodline.
> 
> *WWII*: Lost. Conquered French liberated by the United States and Britain just as they finish learning the Horst Wessel Song.
> 
> *War in Indochina*: Lost. French forces plead sickness, take to bed with Dien Bien Flu.
> 
> *Algerian Rebellion*: Lost. Loss marks the first defeat of a Western army by a Non-Turkic Muslim force since the Crusades, and produces the First Rule of Muslim Warfare -"We can always beat the French." This rule is identical to the First Rules of the Italians, Russians, Germans, English, Dutch, Spanish, Vietnamese, and Eskimos.
> 
> *War on Terrorism:* France, keeping in mind its recent history, surrenders to Germans and Muslims just to be safe.


So France is the Anna Kournikova of Countries. What's wrong with that?


----------



## Blotan Hunka

58 BC-50 BC - The Roman conquest of Gaul. Lost
406-409 - Lost vs. Vandals
507 - Won vs. Visigoths
772-804 - 18 losses and one win against Saxony.
773 - Lombards. Won
778 - Moorish Spain. Partial victory
791-795 - Bavaria. Won
796 - Avars. Won
799 - Roman rebellion. Won
843 - Vikings. Lost
1095-1099 - First Crusade. Won
1147-1149 - Second Crusade. Lost
????-1187 - England. Both sides abandoned war to pursue third crusade. France was ahead at the time.
1187-1191 - Third Crusade. Was winning, but quit when loss was looming.
1214 - Not really a war, but a won battle at Bouvines which ended a streak of mostly losses , and settled conflict with England for the moment. Should probably count as a win.
1209-1229 - Albigensian Crusade. Lost and won.
1248-1254 - Seventh Crusade. Lost
1270 - Eigth Crusade. Lost
1300 - Siezed Flanders, then lost it
1337-1453 - The Hundred Years' War. Finally won
1494-1529 (or 1559) - The Italian Wars - Defeated in turns by members of the Catholic League
1542-1546 - England. Lost
1549-1550 - England. Won
The French Wars of Religion
    1562-1563 - lost
    1567-1568 - lost
    1568-1570 - lost
    1572-1573 - draw
    1576 - technically a loss, played out as a draw
    1577 - draw
    1580 - draw/loss?
    1584-1589 - draw/loss?
    1589-1598 - draw/won?
1636-1648 - French Intervention in The Thirty Years War. Trounced by Spain, ended in draw at home. Assisted Swedish win in Bavaria.
1667-1668 - War of Devolution. Draw/loss
1672-1678 - Dutch War. Won
1688-1697 - War of the League of Augsburg. Defeat abroad allowed victory at home, which permitted a final draw in the Treaty of Ryswick.
1689-1697 - King William's War. Draw
1702-1713 - Queen Anne's War. Lost
1740-1748 - War of the Austrian Succession. France soundly beaten, France's horse, Prussia, wins.
The Three Carnatic Wars
    1746-1748 - Lost
    1749-1754 - Lost
    1756-1763 - Lost
1748 - King George's War. Lost, draw settlement.
1754-1763 - French and Indian War. Lost
1756-1763 - Seven Years' War. Lost
1702-1713 - War of Spanish Succession. Lost
1778-1783 - American Revolutionry War. Won, or in hockey terms "scored an assist"
1789-1799 - French Revolution. Undecided.
The Napoleonic Wars - a few more shining years of aberration
    1792-1797 - Won
    1798-1802 - Won vs. Austrians, lost vs. Russians, lost vs. British
    1805 - Won
    1806-1807 - Won vs. Prussia, draw vs. Russia
    1808-1814 (The Peninsular War) - Lost
    1809 - Won on land, lost at sea and colonies
    1812 - Lost vs. Russia
    1813 - Lost vs. Spain, won vs. Austria + Prussia
    1815 - Lost
1870-1871 - Franco-Prussian War. Normalcy returns, lost
1914-1918 - WW I. Grinding to a draw, pulls out a win when US scores an assist.
1940-1944 - WW II. Lost
1946-1954 - Indochina War. Lost
1954-1962 - Algerian War of Independance. Lost
1956-1957 - Suez crisis. Lost


----------



## Don Roley

Andrew Green said:


> We all know that, in 1812 "Canada" as a country didn't exist.  But that's ok, we still burnt down your white house



actually, British troops set fire to it and damaged the interior so bad it took three years to repair. But they did not burn it down (i.e. completely destroy it) AFAIK.

http://usparks.about.com/cs/parkhistory/a/whitehouse.htm

I have heard somewhere (but can't find a source in a quick internet search) that the residence was painted white after the attacks to help conceal the damage done by the attack.

Back onto the matter of France, how do we define the Normans? They sailed from France and kicked the British butts on their home turf. But of course, their name "Norman" comes from the fact that they were not originally from France and were only there for a few generations before they decided England was a nice place to visit.


----------



## exile

The Master's list omitted one of the most catastrophic defeats the French military ever sufferedthe revelation that it had covered up a groteque miscarriage of justice consisting of the essentially baseless conviction in 1894 of Captain Alfred Dreyfus on the basis of a document concocted by French counterintelligence to deceive German spies interested in French artillery developments. The `honor' of the army was taken to be more important than Dreyfus' innocence, and the resulting sham trial led to an explosive increase in French anti-Semitism whose ultimate payoff was the active collaboration of Vichy France with the SS in the extermination of France's Jews during the Occupation. Even with the military backing the coverup for all it was worth, however, the deception became public, the perpetrators identified, Dreyfus was rehabilitated and eventually left military service as a Knight of the Legion of Honor. The French millitary's reputation was contaminated far worse than it would have been had the error been admitted at the outsetas usual in such cases. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot; these guys succeeded in blowing their whole _leg_ off...


----------



## searcher

Please forgive me, as I did not read through the entire thread, but did anybody forget the French and the Vietnamese.   They got their butts kicked out of Southeast Asia and they tried for many years there.   As Americans we can't say a whole lot, since we have not faired very well in SE Asia.


----------



## dragonswordkata

I knew that during the war of 1812 Canada and the British did some butt kicking on us but what's this about Canadians burning washington. The brits landed and marched on Washington after failing to destroy an american fort. 
I will grant again the us forces lost at thier campagines to take Montreal and Qubec. They don't call you guys "the GREAT white north" for nothing. take off eh


----------



## exile

searcher said:


> Please forgive me, as I did not read through the entire thread, but did anybody forget the French and the Vietnamese.   They got their butts kicked out of Southeast Asia and they tried for many years there.   As Americans we can't say a whole lot, since we have not faired very well in SE Asia.



The Master's and Blotan's lists duly record the French defeat in their colonial adventure in Indochina. Interestingly, though, it probably should be added that the Algerian War was possibly the only war that any nation's military has decisively lost _twice_. The first time it was the official French Army; the second time it was L'Armée Secrète (OAS), a cabal of French military officers, some quite high-ranking,  under General Raoul Salan, which tried in the early 1960s to overturn by force de Gaulle's by-then established policy of disengagement from Algeria. Just as in the case of the French regular forces, the OAS got its clock cleaned, and Salan wound up in the slammer.


----------



## dragonswordkata

oh, can we add to Frances lost when the Veci  (sp) puppet government backed by the Germans, lost in No. Africa to Allied forces?


----------



## Steel Tiger

Andrew Green said:


> Canadians burnt down the white house in 1812. William Wallace defeated the English on a couple of occasions. Jon of Acr won a couple really impressive victories. In WW1 all sides sent infantry attacks against machine gun armed trenches only to get slaughtered. Julius Cesar entered Rome, took control of the city with a single legion, and ended up winning a civil war. Every country has battles I'm sure they'd rather forget in there past.


 

But it is not every country that consistently has its military described as the best in the world.  From the late eighteenth century the French army has continually been described as the best in the world (meaning Europe i this case).  This was based on equuipment and training and under Napoleon, for a time , it was true.  Yet each time they were defeated, in some cases severely defeated (Franco-Prussian War).  

In truth, the French have not described themselves this way but they have lived off the undeserved reputation for a long time.


----------



## exile

dragonswordkata said:


> oh, can we add to Frances lost when the Veci  (sp) puppet government backed by the Germans, lost in No. Africa to Allied forces?



Good point, DSK! And strangely parallel to the situation in Algeria that I posted about earlier, where first the regular French army and then the underground French army lost bigtime. The regular French army essentially surrendered to the Germans before there were any official hostilities; then the Vichy French army lost to the Allied armies after full hostilities were in progress. If you think of the SAO as the `dark side' of the regular French military of the 1950s and the French armed forces under the Nazi-collaborationist Vichy goverment as the `dark side' of the regular French military of the 1930s-40s, there's a certain satisfying parallelism in the two cases. The most satisfying thing is that in all four subcases we're looking at here, the French got trounced.

You have to ask the question... did the French ever actually _win?_ On anything but a very temporary basis, I mean...??


----------



## Blotan Hunka

Q:How many French military personel does it take to defend Paris?

A:No one knows because it's never been tried


----------



## exile

Blotan Hunka said:


> Q:How many French military personel does it take to defend Paris?
> 
> A:No one knows because it's never been tried



:roflmao:

My understanding is that there _was_ a defense of Paris against the Germans, during WWI, but it was undertaken by cab drivers, not the army. And the cabbies _won!_


----------



## SFC JeffJ

Don Roley said:


> actually, British troops set fire to it and damaged the interior so bad it took three years to repair. But they did not burn it down (i.e. completely destroy it) AFAIK.
> 
> http://usparks.about.com/cs/parkhistory/a/whitehouse.htm
> 
> I have heard somewhere (but can't find a source in a quick internet search) that the residence was painted white after the attacks to help conceal the damage done by the attack.
> 
> Back onto the matter of France, how do we define the Normans? They sailed from France and kicked the British butts on their home turf. But of course, their name "Norman" comes from the fact that they were not originally from France and were only there for a few generations before they decided England was a nice place to visit.


The Normans where immigrants to France.  There were actually Norsemen(men of the north, same as Normans) who took that bit of ground on their way to raid Paris.  They had been there a generation or four, but mostly were keeping their own culture at that point.

Jeff


----------



## Kembudo-Kai Kempoka

French army motto: "At the first sing of attack, surrender!"


----------



## Don Roley

I remember a line from an old Mad Magazine history of America book.

"The French and Indian war- both the French and the Indians lost."


----------



## The Master

"I would rather have a German division in front of me than a French one behind me." --- General George S. Patton

Why did the French send Lady Liberty to America? A. They had no use for her anyway B. They didn't want the tired, poor, huddled masses to come to France for God's sake. C. She wouldn't put out D. To be a constant reminder of the help they gave to defeat the British. As if WE'RE the ones with the short memory. E. They wanted to remind future generations that they once had the balls to do what is right. F. All of the above 

Also some sickening but true information came my way about the French. In French text books the U.S. in WWII is only 1 paragraph of information and worst of all D-day isn't mentioned at all!!! 

During one of the many wars that the French and the British fought and the French usually lost, the French just happened to capture a British Major.  An officer brought the Major to the French general for interrogation.  The French general began ridiculing the Major for wearing "that stupid red tunic."  The French general said, "Why to you wear that red uniform, it makes it easy for us to shoot you."  The British major replied, "If I do get wounded, the blood will not show, and my soldiers will not get scared."  The French general said, "That is a very good idea," The Frenchy turned to his orderly and said, "From now on all French officers will wear brown pants." 

American to Frenchman: "Do you speak German?"  Frenchman: "No."  American: "You're Welcome! 

Q: What does "Maginot" mean in English?  
A: Welcome!


----------



## CTKempo Todd

I'm not an admirer of the French but the bottom line is:

The American Revolution would not have succeeded if it was not for the French. Twist it however you want but it does not change that fact.


----------



## Blotan Hunka

Why are the streets of Paris lined with trees?

The Germans like to march in the shade.


----------



## grydth

Bob Hubbard said:


> "Canadians burnt down the white house in 1812."
> 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. Bring extra matches.
> 
> A few losses over centuries doesn't hurt, when theres a regular amount, well....
> 
> http://www.militaryfactory.com/battles/french_military_victories.asp
> 1214-2003
> Wins - 34/33 (Were there any French forces on the Allied side at Normandy?)
> Draws - 9
> Losses - 28



Yes, Free French forces did participate in D Day. 

These included 2 cruisers (the Montcalm and Georges Leygues), 7 destroyers and escorts, and the old battleship Courbet which was used as a block ship.

Two commando troops landed with the British at Oiutreham.... as I recall they may have been shown in the movie "The Longest Day". French Commandos stormed the Casino at Riva Bella.

Then there were the French resistance attacks on the Germans, mostly focusing on impeding the Germans from getting reinforcements to Normandy. Mass murders by the SS in Tulle and Oradour resulted.


----------



## Blotan Hunka

Why are there rear view mirrors on French tanks?

So they can watch the battle.


----------



## Blotan Hunka

Q: Did you hear about France's new weapons contracts?
A: They gave one to Ace Hardware to produce 250,000 wood sticks...they are still looking for a company to produce 250,000 little white flags.

One of my favorite quotes:
"Let's face it. When it comes to war, France gets rolled more often than a Parisian prostitute with a visible mustache."


----------



## bydand

Blotan Hunka said:


> Q: Did you hear about France's new weapons contracts?
> A: They gave one to Ace Hardware to produce 250,000 wood sticks...they are still looking for a company to produce 250,000 little white flags.



:lfao:  Never heard this one before.  Nice.


----------



## Bob Hubbard

grydth said:


> Yes, Free French forces did participate in D Day.
> 
> These included 2 cruisers (the Montcalm and Georges Leygues), 7 destroyers and escorts, and the old battleship Courbet which was used as a block ship.
> 
> Two commando troops landed with the British at Oiutreham.... as I recall they may have been shown in the movie "The Longest Day". French Commandos stormed the Casino at Riva Bella.
> 
> Then there were the French resistance attacks on the Germans, mostly focusing on impeding the Germans from getting reinforcements to Normandy. Mass murders by the SS in Tulle and Oradour resulted.


Cool info.  Thanks!


----------



## exile

grydth said:


> Yes, Free French forces did participate in D Day.



I knowmy mother's cousin was with them. He was a Free French paratrooper who'd spent much of the war in North Africa and returned with de Gaulle. And if you want to hear scathing contempt for the regular French army (and for the comfortable bourgeousie, who'd just as soon the resistance would go away so they could enjoy the occupation in peace), you'd do well to sit down and listen to _him_ for a couple of hours. 

I understand his contempt. Andre Malraux, the soi-disant Marxist anti-Facist intellectual, with all of his _Man's Fate_ credentials, was married to a Jewish woman and basically abandoned her to the SS when it appeared it would be, um, inconvenient to do otherwise. Sartre, another `resistance' braggart, appears to have spent most of the war sitting in cafés musing about nothingness. My mother's cousin once called France `a nation of collaborators' and everything I've heard since tends to make me think he was saying the exact truth...


----------



## Josh

CTKempo Todd said:


> I'm not an admirer of the French but the bottom line is:
> 
> The American Revolution would not have succeeded if it was not for the French. Twist it however you want but it does not change that fact.



Yep. And all of the French bashing (freedom fries, using words like "frog" and assuming the French are weak) really pisses me off. My first language was French and it was all that my grandparents knew. My grandfather was part of the French resistance in WW2. Martial Artists especially shouldnt engage in ethnic sterotypes. it's really immature and uninformed IMO. Ask a few *Savate *practitioners if they are weak.

 I really, REALLY got angry in school when I was made fun of for being French. It seems to be one of the few remaining acceptable prejudices in the United States. I would sit here and defend the French military but it's pointless. No one wants to talk about how we probably would not have deafeated the Brittish in the Revolution without them. I hear a lot about ww2. It's really REALLY easy to bash France for losing so quickly (in the begining) to the Germans. But does that make every OTHER country that was conqured by the Nazis weak? Please.
America was seperated by the Atlantic from them. (Nazis)
If France is a country that 'gives up" then you must assume then that EVERY country in Europe that was taken over in ww2 is a bunch of quitters.

that is my view on this whole thing (though im not offended by this thread) because I have a sense of humor.. I am just telling you how it is growing up in a French household in the middle of America, especially post 9/11.

By the way..
If anyone wants to say that the French as Individuals are weak or cowardly. They are more than welcome to do more than just Neg rep me without signing it like a coward. If you want to have that level of prejudice (im not saying anyone does) but if you do, Please PM me so we can arrange a set up so you can say it to my face, and then get knocked the ***** out.
I'm so tired of the Anti- French Bs. Don't be a coward and neg rep me. I DIDNT say anything offensive. If you have a problem, take it to me openly.

My 2 cents.

Funny thread though, I enjoyed it.

Respectfully,

Josh


----------



## Blotan Hunka

Q. Why don't they have fireworks at Euro Disney?  

A. Because every time they shoot them off, the French try to surrender.


----------



## Josh

Blotan Hunka said:


> Q. Why don't they have fireworks at Euro Disney?
> 
> A. Because every time they shoot them off, the French try to surrender.



:lol: funny stuff

but waitttt.. they do in fact have fireworks at Euro Disney


http://www.pbase.com/tineke/image/26132658


----------



## Blotan Hunka

Q: How can you identify a French Infantryman?
A: Sunburned armpits.


----------



## Josh

*bows*

you win. I have nothing for this one.
:boing1:


----------



## Josh

*notices the irony in giving up*
:shock: i'll just zap you instead. take that!! muahhah.


----------



## CTKempo Todd

Yes. 
I challenge all of you that have thrown jokes out there to go read a book on the revolutionary war and figure out why none of you have British accents today. You may learn something.

BTW,
I had the oppurtunity in high school to be an exchange student and spent a month in France. I visited the beaches/museums/grounds/American Cemetary where D-Day took place and it will go down as one of the most incredible experiences in my life. I was 17 at the time (1986) and I will never forget it.


----------



## Blotan Hunka

This is the comedy forum isnt it? Chill.


----------



## Blotan Hunka

Q. What's the difference between Frenchmen and toast?

A. You can make soldiers out of toast.


----------



## Blotan Hunka




----------



## Tames D

I'm German and my wife is French. So we hear all the jokes and my wife and her family have a great sense of humor about it which I find pretty cool. Just 2 comments:

The French turn out the best looking women, lol.
My wifes uncles and cousins are the best fighters I've ever seen. I would be crazy to call them cowards, lol.


----------



## Blotan Hunka

I have some French in the woodpile too. Ancestors were French Fur trappers, But Im an American, so what do I care about some French Army jokes??


----------



## exile

QUI-GON said:


> [*]My wifes uncles and cousins are the best fighters I've ever seen. I would be crazy to call them cowards, lol.



My second cousin Henri, the Free French paratrooper I mentioned earlier, was also accounted a ferocious fighter in his youthyou didn't last long in that company unless you wereand _he's_ the one to go to for stories of the corruption and cowardice in the French military hierarchy during WWII, the active collaboration between the German SS and the Vichy military getting their own back on the Jews because the army officers corps' lies in framing Dreyfus had come to light half a century earlier, Dreyfus had been exhonerated and eventually made _Chevalier_ of the Legion of Honor, and they were going to gve payback for that by helping send thousands of people to be gassed in concentration camps in Poland. The Free French were tough as nails, and the biggest threat they faced was in betrayal by their own countrymen, who sent the best and bravest of the Resistance, like Jean Moulin, to their deaths at the hands of the Gestapo. 

My cousin spent three years fighting in North Africa, and when he returned to France was amazed to discover that most of the comfortable bourgeousie, who had done so well during the Occupation, turned out, by their own admission, to have been `working with the Resistance all along'. Funny, that...


----------



## CTKempo Todd

Blotan Hunka said:


> This is the comedy forum isnt it? Chill.


 

Point taken...However I believe it got away from being comedy when some of the posts went to a more political slant...


----------



## Blotan Hunka

French Army Knife


----------



## CTKempo Todd

Blotan Hunka said:


> French Army Knife


 

THAT WAS GOOD! ...LOL


----------



## Josh

haha, yes very good indeed. I can take the joke aspect of it, its when it starts to get into prejudice that I start taking offence. I'm assuming everyone throwing out french jokes would be able to take it if their heritage was attacked jokingly too. it's all in good fun.

nice thread :]


----------



## Xue Sheng

Joshua said:


> haha, yes very good indeed. I can take the joke aspect of it, its when it starts to get into prejudice that I start taking offence. I'm assuming everyone throwing out french jokes would be able to take it if their heritage was attacked jokingly too. it's all in good fun.
> 
> nice thread :]


 
My heritage is mostly German and Prussian, related to Frederick William the King of Prussia actually.

But it is the German heritage that my ex-wife always said was rather scary. People make joke after joke about Germans and they never seem to get upset about it and laugh right along with you. And then before you know it they have annexed your land and taken over or at least that is what she always said and she had absolutely no German heritage at all...


----------



## grydth

Joshua said:


> Yep. And all of the French bashing (freedom fries, using words like "frog" and assuming the French are weak) really pisses me off. My first language was French and it was all that my grandparents knew. My grandfather was part of the French resistance in WW2. Martial Artists especially shouldnt engage in ethnic sterotypes. it's really immature and uninformed IMO. Ask a few *Savate *practitioners if they are weak.
> 
> I really, REALLY got angry in school when I was made fun of for being French. It seems to be one of the few remaining acceptable prejudices in the United States. I would sit here and defend the French military but it's pointless. No one wants to talk about how we probably would not have deafeated the Brittish in the Revolution without them. I hear a lot about ww2. It's really REALLY easy to bash France for losing so quickly (in the begining) to the Germans. But does that make every OTHER country that was conqured by the Nazis weak? Please.
> America was seperated by the Atlantic from them. (Nazis)
> If France is a country that 'gives up" then you must assume then that EVERY country in Europe that was taken over in ww2 is a bunch of quitters.
> 
> that is my view on this whole thing (though im not offended by this thread) because I have a sense of humor.. I am just telling you how it is growing up in a French household in the middle of America, especially post 9/11.
> 
> By the way..
> If anyone wants to say that the French as Individuals are weak or cowardly. They are more than welcome to do more than just Neg rep me without signing it like a coward. If you want to have that level of prejudice (im not saying anyone does) but if you do, Please PM me so we can arrange a set up so you can say it to my face, and then get knocked the ***** out.
> I'm so tired of the Anti- French Bs. Don't be a coward and neg rep me. I DIDNT say anything offensive. If you have a problem, take it to me openly.
> 
> My 2 cents.
> 
> Funny thread though, I enjoyed it.
> 
> Respectfully,
> 
> Josh



Josh, some advice:

*Never *use the Internet to in any way appear to challenge somebody to a fight....I'm not talking to you as any kind of moderator, but as a matter of law. You do not want to open this can of worms, which can range from stalkers to  federal charges. 

French are not the only permissable target in Politikally Korrect Amerika... white males, Germans, Mexicans, Arabs, Conservatives and Christians will do just fine..... got some French Canadian in my family tree also.

If its a hot debate you want, use the facts...... like maybe the French stand at Verdun vs the US public whimpering and wanting to quit now in 2 wars.... or Camerone.........or Cambronne....... for starters.

I've had ***'s  neg rep me who didn't have the brains or guts to debate openly --- Hubbard told me to live with it, and you know what? Hubbard's right...... opinions of *** just are not worth getting upset over or in plenty of legal trouble over.

Enjoy and stay cool.


----------



## Bob Hubbard

Anyone want to tangent from French Military tactics to Polish?

Enemy attacks with tanks so you call....
Horse Calvary. 



(btw, 1-I'm part polish, my grandfather is 100%, and 2, those horsemen did some real damage to the invading German forces.)


----------



## grydth

There was some speculation about those supposed cavalry charges a few years back..... were they attacks in the traditional sense or were they groups of Polish horsemen trying to break out of the many encirclements who had the misfortune to have an unplanned meeting engagement with a column of early German panzers?

Cavalry was actually used on the Russian Front throughout the war - and by both sides. For but one example of an opposite result, see sources on Russian Cavalry slaughtering thousands of Germans in 1944 at Korsun
Cherkassy...... when the Germans themselves were desperately trying to break out on encirclement.

Personal opinion is that a lot of fighting men in a number of armies - French, Italian, Russian, Romanian have gotten a bad break in popular history. The brave battles have been forgotten, the routs popularized. Plus, what can one expect from troops who are so far behind technologically as to have no effective means of fighting back? Polish troops did run under air attack - but they had no training in or means of fighting back against the Stukas. Germans would run when first faced with the T-34 which literally steamrolled their AT guns.

So, comedy or not, guys before you judge French soldiers or any other ones - first see the situations they were put in. A lot of "history" these days is incomplete, unbalanced and lacking contaxt. No joke.


----------

