# So I'm kind of confused what to do here.



## Ironbear24 (May 30, 2016)

So my goals as far as martial arts is to become the best I can possibly become. What I mean by that is I literally give 100% of my dedication and overall being to training and becoming better.

I have lost touch with many of my friends because all I do is train and lift weights now, my girlfriend seems unhappy too but honestly I don't care. She may not be the right one if it is too hard to accept I have goals in life.

I have seen more improvement of myself in the last 8 months since I have in my lifetime. This is all because I want to be something, I want to be somebody, Its my goal to go to competitions whether they be karate competitions, Judo competitions or mma competitions. I honestly don't care what the competition is so long as it will give me the following.

1. Credibility.

2. Proof, I want to prove to myself that I am good at what I been doing since my teen years.

And finally 3. Proof to other people that I am good at what I am doing.

So my question is what should I do here as far as continuing my training at the Shou Shu dojo. Many of my friends say that it will never make me meet my goals and they think the teacher is not talented enough.

I honestly don't value their opinion because they are with all disrespect as possible, idiots. The common answer was "well mma would kick your *** because they throw you to the floor and go to town."

Yeah, so does Judo, so does mantis and bear in Shou shu, so does many things and kenpo has answers to deal with grappling. I am not the best on the floor but I would by no means feel like a fish out of water and I am not intimidated by it. 

They added "people don't want to see karate, they don't want to see martial arts, they want to see wrestling and see UFC."

So I guess their idiotic opinion UFC is not martial arts and wrestling is not a martial art, which of course it is a martial art. Anyway my point is there might be some validity to their moronic statements.

The sifu does not wish to let me spar until purple belt which is like the 3rd belt, white, orange then purple. Even then I been hearing their sparring is full contact allowing anything, literally anything but the bouts are only 30 seconds long.

This of course is a concern for me because real matches are not that short. It is also annoying when it comes time to spar I have to just watch in a horse stance when I want to spar with the others. He did let me spar a few times but after hurting someone by accident he said it was a mistake to let me do that.

That I don't have enough control yet. I don't agree with this because it was an accident and the guy was smaller than me. It is very hard for me to distinguish the amount of force I should be using. I am often told not enough is being used, then when I use more force I get in trouble.

I also never been clear with the sifu about my goals, which might be a problem. I now they do competitions but I am not sure what kind they are as I never been to one.

I am wondering if I should leave and look for an mma place, which the nearest one is very far away. Or if I should stick with this so when I do go to an mma coach, I have more tools he can help me utilize.

So in your opinion what should I be doing here? Oh and also my weight lifting is still plateud and I can't seem to break a 285 bench press, but the sifu said weight lifting is point less for martial arts which I don't agree with, but that seems to be a common thing among sifus and senseis to say.


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## Azulx (May 30, 2016)

@Ironbear24 I may be able to give you some advice, from my short time on this planet lol. I feel like I have dealt on a smaller level with some of things you are conflicted with. It's great that you give it your all during training, this is important when trying to become the best. Friendships come and go I have grown apart from close friends due to different interest, but I somehow find I way to get back close to them. As far as relationships go, these are incredibly difficult if you are involved in a hobby or activity that takes up a lot of your time. Thankfully, my girlfriend ins incredibly supportive of my love for TKD and martial arts in general. She is also a 1st dan in TKD so that helps too lol. If you gf does not support you, or you can't find a balance between MA and her, then taht will be the problem. Balance is literally the key to everything, and I would suggest to find a way to do that. 

As far as leaving your dojo: If you are going to leave because your friends (who you openly claim to be idiots) tell you it's beneath MMA, then I suggest you stay. MMA is not a weakness free Martial art, it isn't even a martial art. It is a mix of multiple martial arts. I struggle with the following issue: I don't feel like I am challenged enough on a technical level at my school. I very rarely struggle doing anything. I just experienced struggling for the first time in my school trying to do board breaking. Have I considered leaving, yes, but do I, no. This is because I feel like I can help teach the beginner students, and offer different perspectives to help the students learn better.  I enjoy being challenged it helps me grow, my instructor seems to have an issue with competitions I don't understand why. So, I have only ever competed once. 

Sparring: control is absolutely key in sparring, unless your purpose is to injure or knock out your sparring partner. We can't do either of those, and I am completely happy with that. Sometimes I spar females or opponents with less experience I don't try to anything reckless against them where I may accidentally hurt them. Yes, accidents happen during sparring, lower ranks accidentally hurt me because they lack control and literally try to kick through me, They are learning control , and they spar less because of this. 

Just keep grinding and be the best you can be. Only leave your school if you feel you have no purpose there.


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## Kenpoguy123 (May 30, 2016)

Sorry but I don't agree we all love martial arts but in the end you've got to have more than that. You won't be able to lift weights forever or train 7 days a week forever and when it comes to the time you must stop there'll be no one around you. I'm sorry but those comments about your girlfriend aren't nice at all. If your ignoring her and spending all your time training what do you expect quite honestly. I understand you have goals but that doesn't mean it has to be this way do you think pro fighters are 100 % fighting no they have wives, kids hell the heavyweight champion is stil, working as a firefighter and it seems your instructor is right to not let you spar if the first time you do you injure someone. You say it's not your fault because their smaller than you well that's the whole point of marital arts self control. I'm sure your instructor could put you in hospital easily when showing a technique but he's got the control to not do it which it does see you don't have. Honesty I think you should take a small break


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## Hanzou (May 30, 2016)

Leave and join the MMA school, or look for a Muay Thai or Gjj gym. That shoo shoo school or whatever you call it sounds like a waste of time.

If you want to fight, go to a school that actually lets you fight from the beginning.


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## Ironbear24 (May 30, 2016)

Hanzou said:


> Leave and join the MMA school, or look for a Muay Thai or Gjj gym. That shoo shoo school or whatever you call it sounds like a waste of time.
> 
> If you want to fight, go to a school that actually lets you fight from the beginning.



Well the problem with that is distance. We do fight, pretty hard actually, I got the bruises to show for it. And for the record it is Shou shu.


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## Ironbear24 (May 30, 2016)

Taking a break won't help me get any better though. And if she wants to leave she is welcome to leave.


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## Hanzou (May 30, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> Well the problem with that is distance. We do fight, pretty hard actually, I got the bruises to show for it.



Where do you live? We can help you find a place.

Also didn't you say in the OP that you weren't allowed to spar, and that the sparring is only for 30 seconds?


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## Ironbear24 (May 30, 2016)

Hanzou said:


> Where do you live? We can help you find a place.
> 
> Also didn't you say in the OP that you weren't allowed to spar, and that the sparring is only for 30 seconds?



The rounds are 30 seconds. Then you go again for another 30. After 2 rounds you switch sparring partners. The nearest mma gym to me is half an hour away and I have no car. Right now I walk everywhere and take busses.


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## Hanzou (May 30, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> The rounds are 30 seconds. Then you go again for another 30. After 2 rounds you switch sparring partners. The nearest mma gym to me is half an hour away and I have no car. Right now I walk everywhere and take busses.



The MMA gym isn't on the bus line?

Also 1 minute of sparring per partner is pretty laughable. So is banning people from sparring until they reach the upper belts.

Go some place where your size and strength are appreciated, not feared.


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## Kenpoguy123 (May 30, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> Taking a break won't help me get any better though. And if she wants to leave she is welcome to leave.


Well I think she should because you obviously don't care about her. I'm wondering are you only with her because of your proving yourself thing like proving to everyone you've got a girlfriend because well sorry but you really don't seem to care at all


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## Kenpoguy123 (May 30, 2016)

Hanzou said:


> Leave and join the MMA school, or look for a Muay Thai or Gjj gym. That shoo shoo school or whatever you call it sounds like a waste of time.
> 
> If you want to fight, go to a school that actually lets you fight from the beginning.


I don't think is really the time to be trying to promote what you thinks better and start disrespecting someone's else's style


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## Ironbear24 (May 30, 2016)

Hanzou said:


> The MMA gym isn't on the bus line?
> 
> Also 1 minute of sparring per partner is pretty laughable. So is banning people from sparring until they reach the upper belts.
> 
> Go somewhere where your size and strength are appreciated, not feared.



It is pretty out of the way even for the bus. I agree with you but at least the belt needed for it isn't far off. He let me spar before because of my kenpo experience, I made it to blue in my teen years and there we sparred a lot. 

So he figured ok well you got experience so go ahead. He put me up with a 16 year old and a roundhouse kick buckled him over, it caused a problem with the kids dad and we got into an argument. 

Sifu said to the dad its sparring it will happen. Since then he said I lack control and cant spar until everyone else normally can which is purple belt. I know you don't consider the art or him good, but keep in mind that this guy does bjj and the style has grappling in it along with striking. 

My issue is not the art it is the practices, i also don't know if he will teach us the bjj he learned from the place a couple of towns over. He still even goes there to practice from what I hear to expand his knowledge of martial arts.

The reason I bring this up is because it is what helped me give this place a shot in the first place. Most people refuse to learn more than one art because they think their style is perfect. He can admit that everything has flaws which I find admirable. 

Another big advantage is the place is in walking distance for me.


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## Azulx (May 30, 2016)

Stay at your school unless you feel you have no purpose there.


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## Hanzou (May 30, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> It is pretty out of the way even for the bus. I agree with you but at least the belt needed for it isn't far off. He let me spar before because of my kenpo experience, I made it to blue in my teen years and there we sparred a lot.
> 
> So he figured ok well you got experience so go ahead. He put me up with a 16 year old and a roundhouse kick buckled him over, it caused a problem with the kids dad and we got into an argument.
> 
> ...





Kenpoguy123 said:


> I don't think is really the time to be trying to promote what you thinks better and start disrespecting someone's else's style



Oh relax. I'm simply pointing out that based on the posts, MMA or a similar type of MA would fit Iron's goals a bit better.

Personally the distance would be worth it since I've heard some "interesting" things about Shou Shoo, but to each their own.


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## Ironbear24 (May 30, 2016)

Hanzou said:


> Oh relax. I'm simply pointing out that based on the posts, MMA or a similar type of MA would fit Iron's goals a bit better.
> 
> Personally the distance would be worth it, but to each their own.



Would going as far as I can in this, then later when I have more money go to an mma coach be a good idea? I mean this style has striking and trapping, and grappling. So wouldn't going to an mma coach with more tools to work with help? The place is pretty expensive for me too. They charge around 130 USD a month.

From what I understand the coaches show you how to combine your tools for the sport right?


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## Ironbear24 (May 30, 2016)

Hanzou said:


> Personally the distance would be worth it since I've heard some "interesting" things about Shou Shoo, but to each their own.



I'm very aware or all the bad mouthing bullshido says about it. Personally bullshido doesn't hold a lot of credibility to me because the website literally bashes everything. You name it, there will be a negative thread about said art. 

They even call kenpo karate the "most bs TMA in all existence." Even though it has produced possibly the best UFC fighter Chuck Lidel.


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## Hanzou (May 30, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> I'm very aware or all the bad mouthing bullshido says about it. Personally bullshido doesn't hold a lot of credibility to me because the website literally bashes everything. You name it, there will be a negative thread about said art.
> 
> They even call kenpo karate the "most bs TMA in all existence." Even though it has produced possibly the best UFC fighter Chuck Lidel.



Well to be fair, it isn't just Bullshido, there's some CMA sources that say similar things. However, that shouldn't effect YOUR personal view of the place.

As for your earlier post, yes those tools would definitely help. I think you would also prefer the more free and competitive nature of a MMA gym.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (May 30, 2016)

While I'm a huge fan of TMA and kenpo offshoots, for your goal you may need to switch schools. You won't get to a level where you can compete and do well unless you are sparring regularly, and with 3 minute (min) rounds.

The other option would be to organize something akin to a 'fight club' but much more controlled, where 5 or 6 people from different backgrounds come together to train and spar once a week together. It's something that I do with some of my friends, but I've also purposefully kept in contact with friends who practice different arts which likely makes it easier & safer. If you don't have that Craigslist maybe? Not the best option, but if you want to compete and can't go to a gym that competes it's better than nothing.

As far your issues with your friends and gf, no comment since anything I say would be biased without hearing what they have to say about it.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (May 30, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> Would going as far as I can in this, then later when I have more money go to an mma coach be a good idea? I mean this style has striking and trapping, and grappling. So wouldn't going to an mma coach with more tools to work with help? The place is pretty expensive for me too. They charge around 130 USD a month.
> 
> From what I understand the coaches show you how to combine your tools for the sport right?


Also, if your current instructor is inclined to and knows arts that focus on each, he could teach classes that combine him. From what you've said so far though, I gather that that isn't really his interest.


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## Ironbear24 (May 30, 2016)

I can start a fight club? That is freaking awesome!


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## Ironbear24 (May 30, 2016)

Hanzou said:


> . I think you would also prefer the more free and competitive nature of a MMA gym.



I will go there eventually. It's just right now it is out of my financial reach. I looked it up when you mentioned it may be better for me. It is sadly not within my finances at the moment. To be honest with you I have a love hate relationship with mma, I don't like it's fanbase, I don't like the attitudes but I love beating people up and getting beat up and of course love martial arts.

Mma = more than one martial arts, mma is like a fat woman, there is more to love.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (May 30, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> I can start a fight club? That is freaking awesome!


Is anyone stopping you? Just make sure to not break any bones and you're good. Maybe avoid face shots too, for safety/questions (especially if a girl is involved)


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## Kenpoguy123 (May 30, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> I will go there eventually. It's just right now it is out of my financial reach. I looked it up when you mentioned it may be better for me. It is sadly not within my finances at the moment. To be honest with you I have a love hate relationship with mma, I don't like it's fanbase, I don't like the attitudes but I love beating people up and getting beat up and of course love martial arts.
> 
> Mma = more than one martial arts, mma is like a fat woman, there is more to love.


You do know though that in a mma gym you still can't go in there and smash people up it's still a business as well you know you need to show control still. You'll be asked to leave if you can't show control and try and hurt people sparrings not about hurting anyone it's about learning


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## drop bear (May 30, 2016)

You need to find the best gym you can and train there. Dosen,t have  to be mma. But it does have to be a serious fighters gym.

Otherwise do a low level fight see how you go.

By the way you can Spar with contact and still be terrible.

Look. This is integrated mma in Australia. And one of other best gyms we have here. This is what your training should look like if you want to be any good.





It is also the guys my coach trains with.


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## Ironbear24 (May 30, 2016)

Kenpoguy123 said:


> You do know though that in a mma gym you still can't go in there and smash people up it's still a business as well you know you need to show control still. You'll be asked to leave if you can't show control and try and hurt people sparrings not about hurting anyone it's about learning



Yes mother I know. It's a figure of speech. I like to spar heavy is what I mean.


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## Bill Mattocks (May 30, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> So my goals as far as martial arts is to become the best I can possibly become. What I mean by that is I literally give 100% of my dedication and overall being to training and becoming better.



Relax.


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## Phobius (May 30, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> Yes mother I know. It's a figure of speech. I like to spar heavy is what I mean.



One thing worries me with your posts.

You write very much about the future, as if you want to be something you are not. You need to live in the present, if you can not learn to be happy with your current self I fear you will never be happy with your future self either. The goal will never be reached because you can always be better, or age catches you. 

Some concerns of mine:

1. If you are not happy with your training already, your skill, your abilities or even your body. You may miss life altogether chasing a goal you never reach.
2. You sound very unhappy in general, losing friends willingly, not caring enough about why your girlfriend may have her opinion... it sounds as if you wish to alienate yourself and sit in a martial arts bubble. Problem is it does not fit your persona of wanting to prove your worth and let the world know how good you are. Without friends who will care that you are good? Hoping people will admire you demands that you first get your friends and family to admire you, after all they are the ones to be quickest to praise you.
3. Sounds as if your motivation for training is training in itself, this mentality can easily get you to try and top your performance every single day. Being on top all the time will tear on your body. You might not be able to fight and train for as long as you want because you train incorrectly.
4. If you lack control of your strength, given that your strength is larger than others. You already know what you need to train more than sparring.... control. Go learn control! Do not skip elements of your training just because your end goal you need to be a badass. Becoming a badass requires you to have multiple good sparring partners that gladly go onto the mats with you. Sparring is about improvements, not prestige.

5. Highlight yet again, do not go to sparring thinking you need to win. Instead always try to learn as much as possible and if you start wanting to win too much, slow down and focus on your own effort and flaws. Learn each step what you need to correct. Cant grasp what you are doing bad? Slow down. Does not matter if you get beaten, slowing down will then allow you a better outcome in the future.


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## Ironbear24 (May 30, 2016)

Phobius said:


> 1. If you are not happy with your training already, your skill, your abilities or even your body. You may miss life altogether chasing a goal you never reach.



I have never not reached a goal. It may take me more time than others to reach it but I reached them.

When someone tells me I can't do something that is my biggest motivation becuase I aim to prove them wrong.


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## Kenpoguy123 (May 30, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> Yes mother I know. It's a figure of speech. I like to spar heavy is what I mean.


Yes and that could be a problem for people some people don't like to spar hard and if they don't you have to respect that and not spar hard with them. If someone says they don't want to go hard and you do go hard you'll just end up looking like a bully and no one admires a bully there's nothing tough or cool about beating up someone in sparring. I've seen people spar hard and knocking people trying to impress the head instructors and all that happened is the instructors spoke about how little control they had. Maybe doing that would impress some tough guy wannabes on YouTube but any real martial artists wouldn't be impressed by that at all


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## Ironbear24 (May 30, 2016)

Kenpoguy123 said:


> Yes and that could be a problem for people some people don't like to spar hard and if they don't you have to respect that and not spar hard with them. If someone says they don't want to go hard and you do go hard you'll just end up looking like a bully and no one admires a bully there's nothing tough or cool about beating up someone in sparring. I've seen people spar hard and knocking people trying to impress the head instructors and all that happened is the instructors spoke about how little control they had. Maybe doing that would impress some tough guy wannabes on YouTube but any real martial artists wouldn't be impressed by that at all



I don't want to be a bully. A bully is the lowest form of life there is. I have no problem going easier on someone. It the problem in that scenario with that teen was he didnt tell me anything.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (May 30, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> I don't want to be a bully. A bully is the lowest form of life there is. I have no problem going easier on someone. It the problem in that scenario with that teen was he didnt tell me anything.


The best idea, especially with someone either younger or weaker than you, is to let them dictate how hard it is, even if they don't use words. See how hard they are swinging, let them get in a punch or kick, or be defensive and block some of their strikes so that you know what strength they are using, and reciprocate at that level. This prevents hurt feelings from going to hard, or them thinking you are going too soft on them. Not entirely relevant yet, but may be when you hit purple belt and start sparring there again.


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## Tony Dismukes (May 30, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> I have lost touch with many of my friends because all I do is train and lift weights now


As you get on in life, you will probably regret not having friends more than you will regret missing a day of training now and then. BTW - I train 4-5 days per week and I still manage to have a number of good friends that I stay in touch with. Having friends and training are not exclusive.



Ironbear24 said:


> my girlfriend seems unhappy too but honestly I don't care. She may not be the right one if it is too hard to accept I have goals in life.



If you don't care about your girlfriend's happiness, then you are clearly not the right one for her.



Ironbear24 said:


> This is all because I want to be something, I want to be somebody, Its my goal to go to competitions whether they be karate competitions, Judo competitions or mma competitions. I honestly don't care what the competition is so long as it will give me the following.
> 
> 1. Credibility.
> 
> ...



It sounds like your primary motivation is to validate your worth and impress others through your martial arts skill. You will ultimately be happier in your own life and more satisfied with your martial arts training if you don't worry about impressing others, accept that you have worth as a human being regardless of your martial arts ability, and train because you love the art.

BTW - 99% of the people in your life won't really care if you win a trophy (or 10) for martial arts competition. At most it will be a bit of trivia for them about the hobbies you life.



Ironbear24 said:


> So my question is what should I do here as far as continuing my training at the Shou Shu dojo. Many of my friends say that it will never make me meet my goals and they think the teacher is not talented enough.



Are your friends experienced martial artists who have observed your instructor's classes? If not, then their opinions on the subject are worthless.



Ironbear24 said:


> The sifu does not wish to let me spar until purple belt which is like the 3rd belt, white, orange then purple.



How long is the expected timeline to reach purple belt in Shou Shu?



Ironbear24 said:


> Even then I been hearing their sparring is full contact allowing anything, literally anything but the bouts are only 30 seconds long.
> 
> This of course is a concern for me because real matches are not that short.



What do you mean by "real matches?" Most real fights are probably over in 30 seconds. If you're talking about sport competition, then it depends on the sport. Do you know what the competition rules are for Shou Shu?



Ironbear24 said:


> He did let me spar a few times but after hurting someone by accident he said it was a mistake to let me do that.
> 
> That I don't have enough control yet. I don't agree with this because it was an accident and the guy was smaller than me. It is very hard for me to distinguish the amount of force I should be using. I am often told not enough is being used, then when I use more force I get in trouble.



That is pretty much the textbook definition of "not having control."



Ironbear24 said:


> Its my goal to go to competitions whether they be karate competitions, Judo competitions or mma competitions.



If you want to compete in karate, then you need to be training karate. If you want to compete in Judo, then you need to be training Judo. If you want to compete in MMA, then you need to be training MMA. Regardless of how good your Shou Shu classes are, they won't getting you ready to compete in these other contexts.

Not having seen your instructor or knowing what your training alternatives are, I have no opinion as to whether you should find another school. Here are some questions you might ask yourself to help figure out the answer:

Do you enjoy the training?
Do the senior students and the instructor display the skills and attributes you would like to develop in yourself?
What other schools are available in the area which fit with your schedule, budget, and transportation logistics?

Good luck!


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## mograph (May 30, 2016)

Ironbear24, why do you care so much what other people think about you?


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## Buka (May 30, 2016)

Tony Dismukes said:


> If you want to compete in karate, then you need to be training karate. If you want to compete in Judo, then you need to be training Judo. If you want to compete in MMA, then you need to be training MMA.



In your OP, you said competing was your goal. Listen to what Tony said above. He speaks truth.

First step - get a car, regardless of how long it takes. It's what everybody else had to do before they had a car. So, go get one.

Step two - train in what you want to fight in.

Step three - go fight.

Easy peasy Japaneasy.


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## JowGaWolf (May 30, 2016)

Wow so much to address.


Ironbear24 said:


> my girlfriend seems unhappy too but honestly I don't care. She may not be the right one if it is too hard to accept I have goals in life.


 You have to find a girlfriend that likes martial arts and or fitness.  If you can't find one that fits in that category then you need to find one that can accept your passion and not be jealous about it. 



Ironbear24 said:


> Its my goal to go to competitions whether they be karate competitions, Judo competitions or mma competitions. I honestly don't care what the competition is so long as it will give me the following.


 The reasons you stated aren't good reasons for wanting to get into competitive fighting.  I'm not sure why credibility is such a big issue.  If you know for a fact that what you train works then that's all you need.  It doesn't matter what someone else says.



Ironbear24 said:


> Proof, I want to prove to myself that I am good at what I been doing since my teen years.


Spend less time worried about proving to yourself that you are good at what you are training in. If you can apply the techniques that you train during free sparring then that's enough to prove that you are good at what you have been training.



Ironbear24 said:


> Many of my friends say that it will never make me meet my goals and they think the teacher is not talented enough.


The fights you win or lose have nothing to do with your teacher's talent. You are the one that's fighting,so it's your talent that matters. Just because the teacher is talented doesn't mean the student will be talented. 



Ironbear24 said:


> I honestly don't value their opinion because they are with all disrespect as possible, idiots.


You value their opinions which is why you repeat their opinions in the context of your quality.



Ironbear24 said:


> They added "people don't want to see karate, they don't want to see martial arts, they want to see wrestling and see UFC."


A win is a win no matter if you KO someone or choke someone out.  



Ironbear24 said:


> Anyway my point is there might be some validity to their moronic statements.


 Like I said you value their opinions. And no, their statements don't have any validity unless you are a sports promoter or marketing professional.



Ironbear24 said:


> Even then I been hearing their sparring is full contact allowing anything, literally anything but the bouts are only 30 seconds long.
> 
> This of course is a concern for me because real matches are not that short. It is also annoying when it comes time to spar I have to just watch in a horse stance when I want to spar with the others. He did let me spar a few times but after hurting someone by accident he said it was a mistake to let me do that.


30 seconds should be more than long enough to get off a couple of techniques.  It just means that you have to get straight to business.  



Ironbear24 said:


> Oh and also my weight lifting is still plateud and I can't seem to break a 285 bench press, but the sifu said weight lifting is point less for martial arts which I don't agree with, but that seems to be a common thing among sifus and senseis to say.


Do you want to be a bodybuilder or a fighter? Unfortunately you won't be able to be both. Having huge muscles will eventually affect the range of motion used in fighting. There is a reason why fighters don't look like bodybuilders.  If all of that muscle mass was of benefit then all fighters would look like bodybuilders.  Muscle build is specific to the sport that one is in.  Just because you can bench 285 doesn't mean that will help you in reach your fighting goals.  It may how ever cause you to have so much muscle mass, that it causes you to "chicken wing" your punches and it may prevent you from being able to throw a punch with the elbows end because of the mass.

If you want to be a bodybuilder, then understand that it will affect your fighting.  If you want to be a fighter, then understand it will affect you as a bodybuilder.  My questions is. What is the benefit of being able to lift more than 285 pounds?


----------



## JowGaWolf (May 30, 2016)

drop bear said:


> You need to find the best gym you can and train there. Dosen,t have  to be mma. But it does have to be a serious fighters gym.
> 
> Otherwise do a low level fight see how you go.
> 
> ...


Nice video. You can see the various levels of control there.  You can also see them go in hard for one technique and then ease up.  Certain techniques can be done harder than others and it's the ability to shift intensity to match the sparring partner and the technique being used.


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## JR 137 (May 30, 2016)

I'm going to tell you what John Candy told his bobsled driver in Cool Runnings...

"...a gold medal is a wonderful thing. But if you're not enough without it, you'll never be enough with it."

Just saying.


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## JowGaWolf (May 30, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> When someone tells me I can't do something that is my biggest motivation becuase I aim to prove them wrong.


I would caution you when it comes to this mindset.  Your desire to prove someone wrong can be your down fall.  Instead of doing what matters to you, you'll end up doing things, and setting goals just to prove something to someone else. Based on your post it seems as if you are already headed in that direction.


----------



## JR 137 (May 30, 2016)

JowGaWolf said:


> Do you want to be a bodybuilder or a fighter? Unfortunately you won't be able to be both. Having huge muscles will eventually affect the range of motion used in fighting. There is a reason why fighters don't look like bodybuilders.  If all of that muscle mass was of benefit then all fighters would look like bodybuilders.  Muscle build is specific to the sport that one is in.  Just because you can bench 285 doesn't mean that will help you in reach your fighting goals.  It may how ever cause you to have so much muscle mass, that it causes you to "chicken wing" your punches and it may prevent you from being able to throw a punch with the elbows end because of the mass.
> 
> If you want to be a bodybuilder, then understand that it will affect your fighting.  If you want to be a fighter, then understand it will affect you as a bodybuilder.  My questions is. What is the benefit of being able to lift more than 285 pounds?



One word: Bolo.  AKA Chung Lee.


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## drop bear (May 30, 2016)

Buka said:


> In your OP, you said competing was your goal. Listen to what Tony said above. He speaks truth.
> 
> First step - get a car, regardless of how long it takes. It's what everybody else had to do before they had a car. So, go get one.
> 
> ...



By the way i am happy for people to fight in comps they dont necessarily train in. 

Bit of experience.


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## Dirty Dog (May 30, 2016)

JR 137 said:


> One word: Bolo.  AKA Chung Lee.



Bolo Yeung was an bodybuilder and actor, not a fighter. I do not know that he ever fought competitively, and it's easy to make someone look like a badass on camera.


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## Ironbear24 (May 30, 2016)

mograph said:


> Ironbear24, why do you care so much what other people think about you?[/QUOTit



Becuase that is a sign that I am good at something if people see me and go "oh hey, that's guys awesome."


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## Ironbear24 (May 30, 2016)

Dirty Dog said:


> Bolo Yeung was an bodybuilder and actor, not a fighter. I do not know that he ever fought competitively, and it's easy to make someone look like a badass on camera.



Hm, maybe I should go into acting? Just kidding I don't have the talent for that.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (May 30, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> Becuase that is a sign that I am good at something if people see me and go "oh hey, that's guys awesome."


Not necessarily. You could very easily turn into a charlatan. The guys who do the no touch ko's had plenty of people who saw them and said "oh hey, that guys awesome", but then when they go to fight someone not in their 'system' they discover that isn't the case.


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## Ironbear24 (May 30, 2016)

kempodisciple said:


> Not necessarily. You could very easily turn into a charlatan. The guys who do the no touch ko's had plenty of people who saw them and said "oh hey, that guys awesome", but then when they go to fight someone not in their 'system' they discover that isn't the case.



Are you talking about EFO? I thought it was pretty unanimous those people are all liars.


----------



## Dirty Dog (May 30, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> Becuase that is a sign that I am good at something if people see me and go "oh hey, that's guys awesome."



Well, no, it's more a sign that you derive your self worth from external validation. Which isn't good.

You cannot fix your insecurities by relying on the opinions of others. And that is what you're trying to do.


----------



## Monkey Turned Wolf (May 30, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> Are you talking about EFO? I thought it was pretty unanimous those people are all liars.


It currently is, but not in the past, and there are plenty others like them.

I was trying to avoid saying this since I don't know you in person, but there's no point in avoiding it...like DD said, based on all your posts it seems like you rely way too much on others opinions of you and belittle those who have opinions that don't involve how awesome you are. My guess is that this is the cause of your relationship issues with friends/gf, rather than the MA directly. It's also probably the reason that you feel a need to compete so badly, and make sure others acknowledge your styles/other martial artists acknowledge your abilities. I would highly recommend working on that before concerning yourself with competing, as it may cause huge problems for you down the line.


----------



## JowGaWolf (May 31, 2016)

Dirty Dog said:


> Bolo Yeung was an bodybuilder and actor, not a fighter. I do not know that he ever fought competitively, and it's easy to make someone look like a badass on camera.


Exactly.  He didn't try to be a fighter and a body builder at the same time. He competed in body building competitions not fighting competitions.  He practice kung fu, but his focus and goal was to be a successful bodybuilder. The kung fu was a plus, while bodybuilding was the goal.  Ironbear will have to make a similar choice.  I'm sure once he gets over the hump in his weight lifting he'll just set another weight lifting goal higher than the previous goal.  



Ironbear24 said:


> Becuase that is a sign that I am good at something if people see me and go "oh hey, that's guys awesome."


Set your accomplishment bar lower.  If you can do something that someone else can't do then you are good at it. When most people say that something is awesome, it's mainly from the perspective that you are doing something that they can't do or wish they can do.

Don't live your life for "Pats on the the back."


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## Ironbear24 (May 31, 2016)

JowGaWolf said:


> Exactly.  He didn't try to be a fighter and a body builder at the same time. He competed in body building competitions not fighting competitions.  He practice kung fu, but his focus and goal was to be a successful bodybuilder. The kung fu was a plus, while bodybuilding was the goal.  Ironbear will have to make a similar choice.  I'm sure once he gets over the hump in his weight lifting he'll just set another weight lifting goal higher than the previous goal.
> 
> Set your accomplishment bar lower.  If you can do something that someone else can't do then you are good at it. When most people say that something is awesome, it's mainly from the perspective that you are doing something that they can't do or wish they can do.
> 
> Don't live your life for "Pats on the the back."



I was at the gym today training and a guy walked up to me and asked if I fight in mma, I said right now I don't have the money for that, so then he asked me well what martial arts experience do I have, so I told about my experience and he seemed impressed. 

He said he could tell I know how to punch and that my kicks look very strong, he then asked me how to kick so I showed him a roundhouse, he asked for where I train and I gave him the dojo's phone number. It's things like this that make me proud of myself, it might seem stupid to some of you but it's things like this that tell me I am doing something right, the fact that this stranger basically came up to me saying he has seen me here a couple of times and thought I actually fight in mma as of now means I must be doing something right. 

And who knows maybe I just brought my sifu more business, as far as if I am going to stay there or not, I pretty much decided I have to talk to him first, I need to ask him a few more things before I make a decision.


----------



## RTKDCMB (May 31, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> I can start a fight club? That is freaking awesome!


Just don't talk about it.


----------



## mograph (May 31, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> Becuase that is a sign that I am good at something if people see me and go "oh hey, that's guys awesome."


Not necessarily -- it's a sign that they _think_ you're awesome, and are they authorities on the subject? Now, I get the idea that it's good when a teacher or master thinks that way, but some average bozo? You're just letting them manipulate you. If they think you're a loser, then you go 100% all-out to try to prove them wrong, you'd just be _dancing_ for them like a performing animal. You'd be letting them run your life, because you'd be letting them determine what you _do_, and what you _do_ is your life.

Why isn't it enough that _you_ think you're awesome, or at least a Proficient Martial Artist because of all the hard work you've already done, and all the great things you can already do? Then you could get those bozos out of your head, and make a little room in there to focus on life's _important_ things instead of always trying to impress the average bozo? You're better than that, man.


----------



## Tony Dismukes (May 31, 2016)

JowGaWolf said:


> Do you want to be a bodybuilder or a fighter? Unfortunately you won't be able to be both



Unless I've missed it somewhere in a different thread, IronBear hasn't said anything about bodybuilding. Weightlifting is a training method used by bodybuilders, but it's not exclusive to them. I'd venture to say that most people who do weightlifting are not bodybuilders.



JowGaWolf said:


> Having huge muscles will eventually affect the range of motion used in fighting. There is a reason why fighters don't look like bodybuilders. If all of that muscle mass was of benefit then all fighters would look like bodybuilders.



Fighters don't (usually) look like bodybuilders, but having lots of muscles mass is absolutely a benefit in fighting. That's why we have weight classes.


----------



## lklawson (May 31, 2016)

Tony Dismukes said:


> Fighters don't (usually) look like bodybuilders, but having lots of muscles mass is absolutely a benefit in fighting. That's why we have weight classes.


Another thing to consider about professional fighters, is that they're also *entertainers*.  Their job is to fight.  The way they get paid for doing their job is, ultimately, people are willing to pay money to watch them fight.

Bear with me here.

One of my new students at Judo is a Professional Wrestler and some-time Pro-Wrestling Trainer.  He explained to us that it's dreadfully important for pro-wrestlers to be bulked, manly looking.  Otherwise, they become "The Concession Fight."  That's the fight were the fans to to the concession stand because they're not interested in watching you fight.  They look at the Concession Fight guys and think, "I could take him."  The title match guys, the fans look at and think, "I want to *BE* him."

There is a very strong financial incentive in the entertainment fighting industry to be cut, bulked, and manly *looking*.  In a very real way, more muscles indirectly equals more money even if it doesn't directly mean more ability to fight.  

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


----------



## Dirty Dog (May 31, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> I was at the gym today training and a guy walked up to me and asked if I fight in mma, I said right now I don't have the money for that, so then he asked me well what martial arts experience do I have, so I told about my experience and he seemed impressed.



Impressing someone who knows nothing about a subject is pretty easy. And meaningless. 



Ironbear24 said:


> He said he could tell I know how to punch and that my kicks look very strong, he then asked me how to kick so I showed him a roundhouse, he asked for where I train and I gave him the dojo's phone number. It's things like this that make me proud of myself, it might seem stupid to some of you but it's things like this that tell me I am doing something right, the fact that this stranger basically came up to me saying he has seen me here a couple of times and thought I actually fight in mma as of now means I must be doing something right.



 A person who knows nothing about how to punch or kick can be impressed by the amount of moving the bag does in your videos. Those who know how to punch and kick will point out that it means you're doing it wrong. Impressing someone who knows nothing about the subject does not mean you're doing something right (nor does it mean you're doing it wrong). It merely means that person knows nothing about the subject.

Everyone enjoys compliments. There's nothing wrong with that. But compliments from ignorant strangers don't actually mean anything and shouldn't be used to determine if you're "doing something right" or not.


----------



## lklawson (May 31, 2016)

Dirty Dog said:


> Everyone enjoys compliments. There's nothing wrong with that. But compliments from ignorant strangers don't actually mean anything and shouldn't be used to determine if you're "doing something right" or not.


Unless that stranger is a hot chick, right?

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


----------



## Tony Dismukes (May 31, 2016)

lklawson said:


> There is a very strong financial incentive in the entertainment fighting industry to be cut, bulked, and manly *looking*. In a very real way, more muscles indirectly equals more money even if it doesn't directly mean more ability to fight.


There's also the personal ego factor. When Tim Silvia got busted for steroid use, he claimed that he wasn't looking for competitive advantage - he just used the steroids because he was jealous of his peers with their ripped bodies and six-pack abs getting on the covers of the fitness magazines. I wouldn't be surprised if he was telling the truth.

Nevertheless, regardless of how good the muscles look, having them is a competitive advantage. That's why bantamweights don't compete against heavyweights.


----------



## Ironbear24 (May 31, 2016)

mograph said:


> Not necessarily -- it's a sign that they _think_ you're awesome, and are they authorities on the subject? Now, I get the idea that it's good when a teacher or master thinks that way, but some average bozo? You're just letting them manipulate you. If they think you're a loser, then you go 100% all-out to try to prove them wrong, you'd just be _dancing_ for them like a performing animal. You'd be letting them run your life, because you'd be letting them determine what you _do_, and what you _do_ is your life.
> 
> Why isn't it enough that _you_ think you're awesome, or at least a Proficient Martial Artist because of all the hard work you've already done, and all the great things you can already do? Then you could get those bozos out of your head, and make a little room in there to focus on life's _important_ things instead of always trying to impress the average bozo? You're better than that, man.



I didn't realize other people had that much control over me. They should not have such power like that, so I will stop giving it to them.

What good is martial arts if I can't control and dictate my own actions? I see it now, I guess it just took somebody to put the way you did. My body also isn't responding that well to this level of training, my legs hurt when I walk and my elbow hurts when I bend it.

It's been that way for close to a month now and hasn't improved. I think I'll take my girlfriend to the movies before she kill me.


----------



## Ironbear24 (May 31, 2016)

Tony Dismukes said:


> Unless I've missed it somewhere in a different thread, IronBear hasn't said anything about bodybuilding. Weightlifting is a training method used by bodybuilders, but it's not exclusive to them. I'd venture to say that most people who do weightlifting are not bodybuilders.
> 
> 
> 
> Fighters don't (usually) look like bodybuilders, but having lots of muscles mass is absolutely a benefit in fighting. That's why we have weight classes.



I don't body build, what I do is I weightlift for body mass. Body building is about building muscle tone by lifting and dieting down to lose body fat. I don't care about how good I look in a speedo because I am not evil enough to damage the eyesight of the other people.

The profile pic is me with a panda haphazardly Photoshopped over it, I'm muscular but I'm no WWE superstar. It also very easily for me to put on fat and hard for me to shed it, but it is pretty easy for me to put on muscle compared to other guys I've seen.

I am not sure of you guys are familiar with the three somotypes ectomorph mesomorph and endomorph, but I would be a mix of endo and meso due to my large skeletal frame, shorter height and how easily I can get fat as well as gain muscle.

I pretty much accepted that I I'll always be at least 15% body fat which is not bad but by body building standards that is terrible.


----------



## PhotonGuy (May 31, 2016)

Kenpoguy123 said:


> Sorry but I don't agree we all love martial arts but in the end you've got to have more than that. You won't be able to lift weights forever or train 7 days a week forever and when it comes to the time you must stop there'll be no one around you. I'm sorry but those comments about your girlfriend aren't nice at all. If your ignoring her and spending all your time training what do you expect quite honestly. I understand you have goals but that doesn't mean it has to be this way do you think pro fighters are 100 % fighting no they have wives, kids hell the heavyweight champion is stil, working as a firefighter and it seems your instructor is right to not let you spar if the first time you do you injure someone. You say it's not your fault because their smaller than you well that's the whole point of marital arts self control. I'm sure your instructor could put you in hospital easily when showing a technique but he's got the control to not do it which it does see you don't have. Honesty I think you should take a small break



Well just look at how Bruce Lee trained. He would be doing drills with the Wing Chun dummy while his friends would go out for pizza and when they got back he would say he's almost done before switching to his other hand.


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## mograph (May 31, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> I didn't realize other people had that much control over me. They should not have such power like that, so I will stop giving it to them.
> 
> What good is martial arts if I can't control and dictate my own actions? I see it now, I guess it just took somebody to put the way you did. My body also isn't responding that well to this level of training, my legs hurt when I walk and my elbow hurts when I bend it.
> 
> It's been that way for close to a month now and hasn't improved. I think I'll take my girlfriend to the movies before she kill me.


Hey! You _are_ awesome!


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## Ironbear24 (May 31, 2016)

mograph said:


> Hey! You _are_ awesome!



Thanks bro. You too.


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## Kenpoguy123 (May 31, 2016)

PhotonGuy said:


> Well just look at how Bruce Lee trained. He would be doing drills with the Wing Chun dummy while his friends would go out for pizza and when they got back he would say he's almost done before switching to his other hand.


Yeah and he died when he was 32


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## Ironbear24 (May 31, 2016)

PhotonGuy said:


> Well just look at how Bruce Lee trained. He would be doing drills with the Wing Chun dummy while his friends would go out for pizza and when they got back he would say he's almost done before switching to his other hand.



I am not Bruce Lee and it is impossible for me to be him. Even Bruce Lee himself would tell me don't try to be me, try to be you.

That's not to say I can't be good as well, but when I do it will be me, with my own mannerism and quirks Just as he had his own.


----------



## PhotonGuy (May 31, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> I am not Bruce Lee and it is impossible for me to be him. Even Bruce Lee himself would tell me don't try to be me, try to be you.


True, there is only one Bruce Lee and there always will be only one but that's not to say that he didn't set an excellent example for somebody who wants to be the best they can be in the martial arts and that he is an inspiration to anybody who wants to excel, not only in martial arts but in anything in life.


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## JowGaWolf (May 31, 2016)

Tony Dismukes said:


> Unless I've missed it somewhere in a different thread, IronBear hasn't said anything about bodybuilding. Weightlifting is a training method used by bodybuilders, but it's not exclusive to them. I'd venture to say that most people who do weightlifting are not bodybuilders.


You are correct.  I I said bodybuilder because of the way he speaks of reaching his weight lifting goal.  It makes me think of someone who is trying to gain mass


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## MAfreak (May 31, 2016)

your sifu is a moron. he limits you and his style or school or whatever seems to be a fake martial art. i guess, you're paying alot, like other students and he promises a lot like super hero powers, when you stay long enough.
i even let the beginners kids spar lightly and it went well. as teacher no matter what style, i always had the goal that my students actually learn how to fight.
go join a real martial art or combat sport.


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## JowGaWolf (May 31, 2016)

Tony Dismukes said:


> but having lots of muscles mass is absolutely a benefit in fighting. That's why we have weight classes.


I don't like weight classes. I guess it's because as a child I've fought against people much bigger than me and have won.  They had the weight but my size allowed me to have excellent speed in comparison. I was still able to land hard shots as well.  Even now, when I spar against someone, I rather for the person to be taller, bigger, or heavier than me.  I agree that muscle mass helps, but if a person doesn't know how to use that mass then it's no biggy.

I like the fact that the Gracies were able to show that size helps but it isn't everything.


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## Ironbear24 (May 31, 2016)

MAfreak said:


> your sifu is a moron. he limits you and his style or school or whatever seems to be a fake martial art. i guess, you're paying alot, like other students and he promises a lot like super hero powers, when you stay long enough.
> i even let the beginners kids spar lightly and it went well. as teacher no matter what style, i always had the goal that my students actually learn how to fight.
> go join a real martial art or combat sport.



It's so weird. Yesterday that comment would have pissed me off but now it's like it has no effect on me. 

I appreciate your opinion but I will not make a decision on that alone, I have to sit down and talk to the guy, present him with my goals and training requests, and depending on how that goes I will make my decision.


----------



## Ironbear24 (May 31, 2016)

Im paying 90 dollars a month, compared to the other places in my area that's nothing. We have a TKD dojo here that never spars, well they do, but it is point sparring only.

They also charge like 150 a month.


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## JowGaWolf (May 31, 2016)

MAfreak said:


> your sifu is a moron. he limits you and his style or school or whatever seems to be a fake martial art. i guess, you're paying alot, like other students and he promises a lot like super hero powers, when you stay long enough.
> i even let the beginners kids spar lightly and it went well. as teacher no matter what style, i always had the goal that my students actually learn how to fight.
> go join a real martial art or combat sport.


If you kids can spar lightly with control then it's ok to keep letting them spar.  But if they are sparring without control and are injuring other students then it only makes sense to pull that student until they get some control.  It's not good when your martial arts brothers and sisters are suffering because someone can't control their power or strength.  Sparring is for learning, not for injuring.


----------



## MAfreak (May 31, 2016)

JowGaWolf said:


> If you kids can spar lightly with control then it's ok to keep letting them spar.  But if they are sparring without control and are injuring other students then it only makes sense to pull that student until they get some control.  It's not good when your martial arts brothers and sisters are suffering because someone can't control their power or strength.  Sparring is for learning, not for injuring.



just tipping with the fists below the face and the foots on the outside tigh. was no problem. looked like those cute small kids doing tkd sparring one can sometimes see in internet videos. one shouldn't make things too complicateted. 
whatever from what the op wrote first, it seems to be not more like a mcdojo.


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## Ironbear24 (May 31, 2016)

MAfreak said:


> just tipping with the fists below the face and the foots on the outside tigh. was no problem. looked like those cute small kids doing tkd sparring one can sometimes see in internet videos. one shouldn't make things too complicateted.
> whatever from what the op wrote first, it seems to be not more like a mcdojo.



The context here is he did let me spar. And I hurt someone pretty bad, he said I have to learn control. It's not like I will never spar again.


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## JowGaWolf (May 31, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> It's so weird. Yesterday that comment would have pissed me off but now it's like it has no effect on me.
> 
> I appreciate your opinion but I will not make a decision on that alone, I have to sit down and talk to the guy, present him with my goals and training requests, and depending on how that goes I will make my decision.


To this point has your Sifu told you anything wrong in regards to training or fighting?


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## MAfreak (May 31, 2016)

maybe its less your fault you hurt the partner, than his.
how does he want to teach you the control? by stopping techniques right before a pad or bag? than its fine. by just doing techniques into the air? uhm... not surprising then.
also this is a fight sport, so things like that happen. i didn't always blame others when they accidently hit me hard.


----------



## Ironbear24 (May 31, 2016)

JowGaWolf said:


> To this point has your Sifu told you anything wrong in regards to training or fighting?



The only thing I don't like is we don't spar as often as I'd like. Everything else seems very good stuff.


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## Ironbear24 (May 31, 2016)

MAfreak said:


> maybe its less your fault you hurt the partner, than his.
> how does he want to teach you the control? by stopping techniques right before a pad or bag? than its fine. by just doing techniques into the air? uhm... not surprising than.
> also this is a fight sport, so things like that happen. i didn't always blame others when they accidently hit me hard.



He says give them bruises, not make the double over in crippling pain.


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## Dirty Dog (May 31, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> He says give them bruises, not make the double over in crippling pain.



Practice control just like anything else. On the bag. You should be able to pop out a strike and stop it at the surface of the bag, with minimal contact, or at the surface with moderate contact, or strike through with heavy contact.
Yes, when both people are moving and neither is perfect (and nobody is ever perfect) heavier than intended contact will happen. But it should be the exception, not the rule.


----------



## MAfreak (May 31, 2016)

and one shouldn't prohibit someone from sparring (with the explanation its way too early) from one incident. instead one should teach how to do it better. i stick to it: mcdojo.


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## JowGaWolf (May 31, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> He says give them bruises, not make the double over in crippling pain.


It sounds like he does what I do in sparring classes the process of getting bruises is part of the conditioning and makes the body harder. The bruising usually occurs in areas that are hit during fighting. It's like customized body conditioning that matches your method of fighting.  For example, I often get hit in the gut during sparring and as a result I'm able to take hard shots that normally bend my classmates over.  I have gotten to the point now where I can use my stomach to jam front heel kicks.


----------



## Phobius (May 31, 2016)

MAfreak said:


> and one shouldn't prohibit someone from sparring (with the explanation its way too early) from one incident. instead one should teach how to do it better. i stick to it: mcdojo.



Question then, are you referring to heavy full contact sparring? Or light sparring?

The difference in level of sparring matters.

If a student is injured by your lack of control you owe it to other students to learn control first. After all you spar to learn stuff, your sparring showed you that initially you need to learn control. So learn control... then figure out what you need to learn next.


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## JowGaWolf (May 31, 2016)

MAfreak said:


> maybe its less your fault you hurt the partner, than his.
> how does he want to teach you the control? by stopping techniques right before a pad or bag? than its fine. by just doing techniques into the air? uhm... not surprising then.
> also this is a fight sport, so things like that happen. i didn't always blame others when they accidently hit me hard.


I practice tons of techniques in the air. The benefit is that I can swing or kick as hard as I can without any regrets or concerns that I will break my wrist or hand.  Heavy bags and pads are used for impact conditioning.


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## Ironbear24 (May 31, 2016)

I've seen mcdojos before. We have no children black belts. We use heavy contact on technique drills, the phrase "anti grappling" is never used here. The costs are not an arm and a leg, he does not think he style is invincible and urges others to be taken note of and even practiced. 

None of these say mcdojo, I have never once looked at this place and thought mcdojo, I will admit I had my doubts about the whole king fu style wearing Japanese gi's , but that was when I was misinformed. 

It is not Chinese martial arts and it is not Japanese martial arts, it is a mix of both, mainly Tracy kenpo and animal forms such as bear ( a grappling art and trapping art using lots of leverage.) And mantis ( an exclusive grappling art.)

I then learned that clothing, means nothing. Gi or no gi or Chinese garbs make zero impact on the quality of what you are learning.


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## Dirty Dog (May 31, 2016)

MAfreak said:


> and one shouldn't prohibit someone from sparring (with the explanation its way too early) from one incident. instead one should teach how to do it better. i stick to it: mcdojo.



I guess we're a McDojo then. If I say spar with light contact and you don't, you won't be sparring. 
If it was because you lack control, you won't be sparring till you learn control. 
If it was because you ignored instructions, then you won't be sparring till you learn to follow instructions.


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## Spinedoc (May 31, 2016)

As a medical provider, I'm a little concerned by some of the things you mentioned in your post. Clearly, there is some evidence of depression (decreased self worth, need for external self validation, not caring about others feelings-girlfriend)....

Also, you mention not having a car and not being able to afford the MMA gym? I think perhaps there are other priorities in your life that you should address.

I don't say this to be an ***, or besmirch you, but rather to help you see what others have also said here. Focus on simply being happy and grateful, not amount of external validation will ever but temporarily provide any happiness.

Do you think perhaps you are using the arts as an escape? It would seem that there are larger issues in your life perhaps that you are trying get away from.

If I am wrong about that, then please accept my apologies.

Kindest,

Mike


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## Azulx (May 31, 2016)

Dirty Dog said:


> I guess we're a McDojo then. If I say spar with light contact and you don't, you won't be sparring.
> If it was because you lack control, you won't be sparring till you learn control.
> If it was because you ignored instructions, then you won't be sparring till you learn to follow instructions.



I must also be at a Mcdojo, because our white belts can't spar, and we have to use control. I can't knockout or kill anyone in my class so I guess I have a McInstructor too.


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## Ironbear24 (May 31, 2016)

Azulx said:


> I must also be at a Mcdojo, because our white belts can't spar, and we have to use control. I can't knockout or kill anyone in my class so I guess I have a McInstructor too.



We are all bad and should feel bad.


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## Grenadier (May 31, 2016)

*Admin's Note:*

Please keep this conversation civil.  While it's OK to disagree with each other on methodologies, bashing is not permitted in this forum.


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## Azulx (May 31, 2016)

@Ironbear24 what type of sparring are you looking for?


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## Ironbear24 (May 31, 2016)

Azulx said:


> @Ironbear24 what type of sparring are you looking for?



Heavy contact sparring where takedowns and grappling are ok to use along with all strikes.


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## MAfreak (May 31, 2016)

Dirty Dog said:


> I guess we're a McDojo then. If I say spar with light contact and you don't, you won't be sparring.
> If it was because you lack control, you won't be sparring till you learn control.
> If it was because you ignored instructions, then you won't be sparring till you learn to follow instructions.


what i meant was if sparring generally isn't allowed until grade xyz or when the teacher blames the student when he didn't teach him well.

@JowGaWolf i never meant that air striking is bullsh*t, but its not for training controlled impacts.


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## Azulx (May 31, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> Heavy contact sparring where takedowns and grappling are ok to use along with all strikes.



Let me make sure I understand your context of contact. For me full contact means no gear. Full power means how hard you are hitting. So you are looking for less sparring gear or more power?


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## JowGaWolf (May 31, 2016)

MAfreak said:


> what i meant was if sparring generally isn't allowed until grade xyz or when the teacher blames the student when he didn't teach him well.
> 
> @JowGaWolf i never meant that air striking is bullsh*t, but its not for training controlled impacts.


oh ok.. sorry for the misunderstanding.  I agree with you in reference to sparring isn't allowed until grade xyz comment.  I find that it's better to get students sparring as soon as possible since they are much weaker in the beginning than they will be after years of training and punching.  A student at my school injured the other instructor (broken rib) due to a lack of control.  The student was experienced with the techniques and strong from the training, but only had 4 or 5 sparring sessions total over 4 years.  We don't allow him to spar with other students.  My alertness and defense is at a high level when I spar with him because I don't know when he'll lose control and hit harder than he should.  He tends to lose control as the level of movement increases.  He gets caught up in the action of things.  When I move fast he'll try to move faster and hit faster and that's when he loses control.


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## Dirty Dog (May 31, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> Heavy contact sparring where takedowns and grappling are ok to use along with all strikes.



Really? You want to train somewhere that does full contact and allows all strikes? 
You really want to get hurt that bad?



Azulx said:


> Let me make sure I understand your context of contact. For me full contact means no gear. Full power means how hard you are hitting. So you are looking for less sparring gear or more power?



Full contact means "hit as hard as you want" and has nothing to do with how much gear is worn.


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## Juany118 (May 31, 2016)

Kenpoguy123 said:


> Sorry but I don't agree we all love martial arts but in the end you've got to have more than that. You won't be able to lift weights forever or train 7 days a week forever and when it comes to the time you must stop there'll be no one around you. I'm sorry but those comments about your girlfriend aren't nice at all. If your ignoring her and spending all your time training what do you expect quite honestly. I understand you have goals but that doesn't mean it has to be this way do you think pro fighters are 100 % fighting no they have wives, kids hell the heavyweight champion is stil, working as a firefighter and it seems your instructor is right to not let you spar if the first time you do you injure someone. You say it's not your fault because their smaller than you well that's the whole point of marital arts self control. I'm sure your instructor could put you in hospital easily when showing a technique but he's got the control to not do it which it does see you don't have. Honesty I think you should take a small break



QFT. At a certain point that is.

This year I will officially begin the downward slope to 50.  I once had an obsession similar to the OP, but it was with work.  I worked my *** off and was assigned to what is seen as an elite unit at my PD, a Narcotics Enforcement/street crimes unit.  Unlike Patrol or Detectives we had NO schedule.  I would write in a calendar my proposed schedule for the month but could be told "sorry Juany, tomorrow was supposed to be a day off for ya but we need you in at 530 because we finally have enough for that search warrant." I was lucky to see my wife 8 hours a week.  I missed so many family gatherings it was silly. 

It got to the point where my wife and I had an uncontested divorce decree sitting on the dining room table that just needed to be motorized, signed off on by a Judge and filed with the Court.  My Father mailed the Christmas presents to my house with a note that said "since you don't have time for the family." Finally I woke up and said, "I love my job BUT I need people in my life outside of work."  To have those people in my life I need to show them respect and that I care, not disinterest.  This was 6 years ago when I said  to my boss, "I need to go back to the patrol".  With hard work my marriage is back on track and I have repaired the relationships with my parents and siblings.  I could have said "screw you all, you just don't get it" but I would have been left with only my job for company.  Would that lead to a happy life in the long run?

Back to the OP's point about his MA.  One of the reasons for waiting till sparring is because it's not just about being able to execute the moves, it's about being able to do them with enough control that you minimize the injury done to your partner and yourself.  I don't know how your Sifu does testing, but after our first test, my Sifu has no issue on your second to allow you to test for multiple levels at once if he judges you are ready.  Just last week I watched him allow a student test for 3 levels. 

As for pumping iron and strength, it really is dependent on the art imo. All MAs do indeed benefit from strength BUT some arts, because of the techniques employed, see diminishing returns on different curves.  In looking at the principles of a chosen Art one may find that spending more time on flexibility, speed work, even Yang style Tai Chi to develop a more relaxed and subtle movement can have higher returns.  Recently I found that Yang Style Tai Chi, in a suprisingly short period of time to improve my performance in both WC and Inosanto Kali, and there we are just talking your basic YMCA in the park Tai Chi class, because both arts require a "flow" that Yang style is all about.


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## Ironbear24 (May 31, 2016)

Azulx said:


> Let me make sure I understand your context of contact. For me full contact means no gear. Full power means how hard you are hitting. So you are looking for less sparring gear or more power?



So long as I can wear a cup and a mouth piece I'm good to go. As far as the contact level I want it to be rough.


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## JR 137 (May 31, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> So long as I can wear a cup and a mouth piece I'm good to go. As far as the contact level I want it to be rough.



Kyokushin karate.  YouTube some knockdown championship videos.  Or possibly Enshin karate, which is similar but also has throws.  YouTube Sabaki Challenge.  Enshin is harder to find than Kyokushin.  Not sure if this is exactly what you're looking for or if either me is near you, but it's worth looking into IMO.

Or look for a wrestling club.  Wrestling is all about mental toughness and keeping at it especially when it gets tough.  

I get where you're coming from with all of this.  The best and most immediate advice I have is talk to your teacher.  Be respectful about it, but politely speak your mind.  Don't just leave without having a conversation.

Here's something I learned in my short almost 40 years on this planet...

The only one you should be competing against is yourself.  The only one you need to impress or make proud is yourself.

Some people will always be impressed and/or proud of you, no matter what.  When I was wrestling (3rd grade all thorough high school), my mother always supported me and was proud of everything I did, even when I flat out sucked or beat people who were horrible.  Don't get me wrong, I appreciated it, and her heart was in the right place, but making her proud was a joke to me after a while.

My father never showed me he was proud.  He always thought (usually rightfully so) that I could have and should have done better.  I so wanted to impress him.  He only showed it once for a brief moment when I got my bachelors degree.  Looking back, I know he was always proud and it was enough, but it didn't seem that way.  No hard feelings toward him either, as his heart was genuinely in the right place, and someone had to balance out my mother.

It hit me at the end of my junior year in high school - who am I out there for, them or me?  No matter what the outcome of the match (or anything else), it was always the same.  Same with my friends - some were always congratulating me, others were always negative and/or jealous.

I wasn't happy until I said I don't care any more.  I wasn't happy until I thought I don't care about being the best nor winning.  I was happiest when I realized the only thing I wanted to do was outdo myself.  There were people I'd never beat; I stopped getting hung up on trying to beat them, and focused on doing better than I ever thought I could do against them.  The scoreboard took care of itself.  I wasn't happy beating people who I knew were easy opponents; I focused on trying to wrestle the perfect match by making no mistakes.

I was so much more successful after I came to the realization that the only person I needed to impress was myself.  I was so much happier trying to make myself proud rather than my family, friends or coach.  I was the only one I had to answer to, and me being satisfied was the only important thing.  Everyone had their expectations; I knew when I did better than I thought I could do and worse that I thought I should have.  There's no fooling yourself.

Forget about everyone else's expectations; they're not realistic.  Focus on outdoing yourself.  But always be realistic.  I'm not saying you're not the next UFC heavyweight champ, but is that genuinely realistic?  If it's not, there's no point in going all out, all day every day and ignoring everyone and everything else around you.  If you've got a realistic shot at making millions by fighting, that's another story.

Sorry I'm rambling.  It's bed time and my mind wanders a bit.


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## Juany118 (May 31, 2016)

JR 137 said:


> The only one you should be competing against is yourself.  The only one you need to impress or make proud is yourself.



This is absolute truth.  The other thing one needs to understand, in the context of the OP, is that his issue seems to be one of "I want this kind of training now."  In terms of legitimate/sanctioned schools I can't think of any that allow new students to do full contact striking, little to no pads, sparring.  The liability is simply too damn high.  All the waivers in the world don't cover that because waivers only absolve someone of accidents and simply negligence.  Allowing novices to do full contact sparring with minimal protection, whether we agree with it or not is legally recklessness and willful negligence.  Gotta love a litigious society.


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## Ironbear24 (May 31, 2016)

Sifu wasn't there, today, only his daughter was so I couldn't do anything. I'll talk to him later when he shows up next class.


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## drop bear (May 31, 2016)

Dirty Dog said:


> I guess we're a McDojo then. If I say spar with light contact and you don't, you won't be sparring.
> If it was because you lack control, you won't be sparring till you learn control.
> If it was because you ignored instructions, then you won't be sparring till you learn to follow instructions.



We just bash people untill they figure it out.


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## drop bear (May 31, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> Heavy contact sparring where takedowns and grappling are ok to use along with all strikes.



So are there fight gyms of any sort in your area?  Or could you travel one day a week to spar or something?

We have had guys travel 300 ks for sparring sessions.


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## Ironbear24 (Jun 1, 2016)

drop bear said:


> So are there fight gyms of any sort in your area?  Or could you travel one day a week to spar or something?
> 
> We have had guys travel 300 ks for sparring sessions.



There is one about an hour or so way. The mma gym closer to here won't let me spar unless I am a member and they are very expensive. Plus right now I have no car.


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## drop bear (Jun 1, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> There is one about an hour or so way. The mma gym closer to here won't let me spar unless I am a member and they are very expensive. Plus right now I have no car.



We had guys travel 3 hours to train once a week. 273 km,s


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## Kenpoguy123 (Jun 1, 2016)

drop bear said:


> We had guys travel 3 hours to train once a week. 273 km,s


Good for them but it's obvious ironbear can't do this so repeatedly telling him this isn't much help


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## drop bear (Jun 1, 2016)

Kenpoguy123 said:


> Good for them but it's obvious ironbear can't do this so repeatedly telling him this isn't much help



He can't travel an hour somewhere?

What I am pushing home is that he can do this.


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## Ironbear24 (Jun 1, 2016)

drop bear said:


> He can't travel an hour somewhere?
> 
> What I am pushing home is that he can do this.



I don't have a car, our bus system in America costs money to ride, riding it out of town costs you more money. We don't have a train that goes through there, my state has only commercial trains that are not permitted for public use, they just transport goods and homeless people who illegally hitch a ride.


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## lklawson (Jun 1, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> my state has only commercial trains that are not permitted for public use, they just transport goods and homeless people who illegally hitch a ride.


So that's an option then?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Jun 1, 2016)

Clearly you should be train hopping to get to class. Otherwise you rack disciprine!


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## Ironbear24 (Jun 1, 2016)

kempodisciple said:


> Clearly you should be train hopping to get to class. Otherwise you rack disciprine!



Of course master splinter. On it right now!


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## drop bear (Jun 1, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> I don't have a car, our bus system in America costs money to ride, riding it out of town costs you more money. We don't have a train that goes through there, my state has only commercial trains that are not permitted for public use, they just transport goods and homeless people who illegally hitch a ride.



Ok.


kempodisciple said:


> Clearly you should be train hopping to get to class. Otherwise you rack disciprine!



The guy who went to that effort is fighting in the ufc now. And he had most of the same issue's.

You don't have to overcome your training problems. You can train at any level you want. 

Otherwise any martial art where they fight will give you a grounding. Doesn't have to be mma.


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## Kenpoguy123 (Jun 1, 2016)

One thing I would suggest as well is maybe save money and don't use the gym. I personally find gyms overrated most things you can do in a gym you can do at home buy a cheap set of weights buy a heavy bag and your sorted look online for different body exercises you can do that'll save you a good amount of money on gym fees or membership or whatever so you can put that money towards something else


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## Ironbear24 (Jun 1, 2016)

Kenpoguy123 said:


> One thing I would suggest as well is maybe save money and don't use the gym. I personally find gyms overrated most things you can do in a gym you can do at home buy a cheap set of weights buy a heavy bag and your sorted look online for different body exercises you can do that'll save you a good amount of money on gym fees or membership or whatever so you can put that money towards something else



That is simply out of the question. Several of my max lifts are at 285 and over for some exercises. The amount of money and room buying all that equipment occupy is too much so it makes more sense for me to buy a membership every year which only is 290 something. 

A barbell. Bench with the weights alone would run way over that and that would only be for bench pressing alone.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Jun 1, 2016)

Kenpoguy123 said:


> One thing I would suggest as well is maybe save money and don't use the gym. I personally find gyms overrated most things you can do in a gym you can do at home buy a cheap set of weights buy a heavy bag and your sorted look online for different body exercises you can do that'll save you a good amount of money on gym fees or membership or whatever so you can put that money towards something else


If you are doing serious lifting, the gym is much more cost effective in the short run. I haven't done the math, but I would imagine it takes at least 2+ years before it might be cost effective (assuming you have the space for all the equipment in your house/apartment). While this is a good idea if you have money to spare, if you don't it can be tough to afford the initial expense involved.

Of course, if you don't have that money to spare, and are spending 90 a month on MA, that may be something to rethink. I'm not sure what ironbear's money situation or if he even is concerned with getting a car or is having difficulties financially. However, if he's not struggling and just can't justify the expense there's no reason to consider any of this, and if he is struggling  then dropping martial arts or finding either something cheaper or a group that meets regularly without a set sifu would be a smarter course of action financially. Either way, no reason to quit the gym.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Jun 1, 2016)

Double post, but also Ironbear sorry if it feels like I am talking around/about you. Just trying to explain the logic behind not quitting a gym.


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## Ironbear24 (Jun 1, 2016)

kempodisciple said:


> Double post, but also Ironbear sorry if it feels like I am talking around/about you. Just trying to explain the logic behind not quitting a gym.



I don't mind it at all.


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## Juany118 (Jun 2, 2016)

Kenpoguy123 said:


> Good for them but it's obvious ironbear can't do this so repeatedly telling him this isn't much help



Yeah everyone's life is different.

Let's say I wanted to go to the nearest JKD place.  By car  (no traffic) 56 minutes, if I didn't have a car and needed to use public transit, over 2 hours.  If there was no public transit it would take 3+ hours pedaling my bike.  Now I have to ask "is that practical" and still get to work in time after? (I do have a mortgage to pay and a family to keep happy), answer no.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Jun 2, 2016)

Juany118 said:


> WC is not easy to solo train unless you spend $500-$1000 on a Mook Jong, I expect JKD is similar, so it wouldn't make sense to me.


Off topic, but JKD doesn't have forms which would make it even tougher. The JKD place near me also does silat, but that would be tough to do any solo work as well.


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## Juany118 (Jun 2, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> That is simply out of the question. Several of my max lifts are at 285 and over for some exercises. The amount of money and room buying all that equipment occupy is too much so it makes more sense for me to buy a membership every year which only is 290 something.
> 
> A barbell. Bench with the weights alone would run way over that and that would only be for bench pressing alone.



Here is a question.  Let's say you finally get to talk to your Sifu and he gives a logical explanation as to why the raw strength you have atm necessary.  If it is logical to the point that you buy into it, to an extent, could you see yourself changing your program.  I know more than a couple pretty strong guys that basically transitioned from a gym to your "old school" push ups, core work, pull ups and TRX and/or dumbbell work, which is a lot more affordable than a full bench set and still provides really good strength with the dedication.

Only asking the above because while you clearly love pumping iron, and good for you, your priority seems to be the martial arts.  If a reason for 300lbs + presses not being necessary is one that makes sense to you, then not having to go to the gym to pump iron, in the long run, will free up more time and money for the Art you chose.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Jun 2, 2016)

To compound Juany's question, you have mentioned a couple of times in threads that you consider fat (based on your profile picture I don't see this as the case, but to each his own). Would you be willing to accept that what you press might go down in order to lose weight, or would you rather gain weight if it helped you press more? Not overly important to me, especially since I don't think your fat to begin with, but may be something for you to think about as you decide your future goals.


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## Juany118 (Jun 2, 2016)

kempodisciple said:


> Off topic, but JKD doesn't have forms which would make it even tougher. The JKD place near me also does silat, but that would be tough to do any solo work as well.



Well JKD kinda has forms, they just refer to them as sets, and even then you need a heavy bag at least to kick and punch upon lol.  But yeah, one of the things I like about Inosanto Kali is that, while the open hand stuff is hard to do alone, you can do a fair number of the weapons drills on your own, which helps with my craptastic work schedule.


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## Dinkydoo (Jun 2, 2016)

I'm a bit late to this but I like the motto:

Go rough on the pads,
Easier on each other

You shouldn't be really hurting anyone in sparring who doesn't have the ability to hurt you back. Someone should be coaching you on that though. It's not really something that you're going to learn whilst doing forms and practicing on the pads.

I'm a big fan of technical sparring with little sections of going harder. I learn much more this way.

Also, the girlfriend thing doesn't sound good at all - shape up, or lose her.


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## Ironbear24 (Jun 2, 2016)

kempodisciple said:


> To compound Juany's question, you have mentioned a couple of times in threads that you consider fat (based on your profile picture I don't see this as the case, but to each his own). Would you be willing to accept that what you press might go down in order to lose weight, or would you rather gain weight if it helped you press more? Not overly important to me, especially since I don't think your fat to begin with, but may be something for you to think about as you decide your future goals.



I'm pretty bulky right now so I am working on losing body fat, which will make me appear to be more muscular. That is true though, it will affect my lifts but I plan to cut down, and once I am down to at least 195, I will follow a more careful bulking plan to build more muscle and less fat.


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## JowGaWolf (Jun 2, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> I'm pretty bulky right now so I am working on losing body fat, which will make me appear to be more muscular. That is true though, it will affect my lifts but I plan to cut down, and once I am down to at least 195, I will follow a more careful bulking plan to build more muscle and less fat.


Here's some questions with no wrong answers.

Why do you want to build more muscle?
Are you building more muscle to be bigger or are you just trying to be stronger?

If you are building muscle to be stronger then make sure you are becoming stronger in the correct way.  Martial Art physical strength is not the same strength as lifting weight strength. The strength involved in martial arts involves working many of the smaller muscles that aren't worked through normal weight lifting.  Martial arts does a lot of functional strength building.  With the regular bench press your strength is going to be mainly isolated in the motion of bench pressing. You'll be considerably weaker in any other range of motion.  This is why people who bench only  press have to significantly reduce the weight when doing incline and decline bench presses.


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## Ironbear24 (Jun 2, 2016)

JowGaWolf said:


> Here's some questions with no wrong answers.
> 
> Why do you want to build more muscle?
> Are you building more muscle to be bigger or are you just trying to be stronger?
> ...



I want to be both stronger and larger.


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## JR 137 (Jun 2, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> I'm pretty bulky right now so I am working on losing body fat, which will make me appear to be more muscular. That is true though, it will affect my lifts but I plan to cut down, and once I am down to at least 195, I will follow a more careful bulking plan to build more muscle and less fat.



Winstrol


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## Flatfish (Jun 2, 2016)

Just to pile on from personal experience. I used to do all the compound lifts etc. Didn't like it very much...setting up the barbells, racking weights bla bla all seemed like a big waste of time (for me, for me.....I know people like to lift). Got interested in more advanced calisthenics and really like that because it seems to teach me more body control and things like weighted pullups and dips, handstand pushups and the hindu pushups I mentioned in another thread of yours or plyo pushups are seriously challenging. Also pistol squats etc (can't do those because of my stupid knee but I had been working on them before I hurt the darn thing) and a bunch of core exercises like the various flags, planks etc. tons of stuff out there. Might not be your cup of tea but you won't need a gym for those and I just wanted to mention it.


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## Ironbear24 (Jun 2, 2016)

JR 137 said:


> Winstrol



I don't do steroids.


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## Skullpunch (Jun 2, 2016)

kempodisciple said:


> To compound Juany's question, you have mentioned a couple of times in threads that you consider fat (based on your profile picture I don't see this as the case, but to each his own). Would you be willing to accept that what you press might go down in order to lose weight, or would you rather gain weight if it helped you press more? Not overly important to me, especially since I don't think your fat to begin with, but may be something for you to think about as you decide your future goals.



He may not be outright fat but he's certainly not so lean that losing fat cannot be done without losing strength.  This is not a concern, if OP loses strength while losing fat at this point he's doing it wrong.

The fear of losing strength while losing weight is either for those who already have single digit bodyfat (more realistically, sub 8%) or the elite of the elite strength athletes - guys who are so dedicated to getting stronger that they don't have anything left in them to devote to martial arts, which I'm pretty sure is not what OP is going for.


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## JR 137 (Jun 2, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> I don't do steroids.



It was a joke.  My smiley didn't show up somehow.


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## Ironbear24 (Jun 2, 2016)

Skullpunch said:


> He may not be outright fat but he's certainly not so lean that losing fat cannot be done without losing strength.  This is not a concern, if OP loses strength while losing fat at this point he's doing it wrong.
> 
> The fear of losing strength while losing weight is either for those who already have single digit bodyfat (more realistically, sub 8%) or the elite of the elite strength athletes - guys who are so dedicated to getting stronger that they don't have anything left in them to devote to martial arts, which I'm pretty sure is not what OP is going for.



I'm going for at least 12% body fat. I'm more of an endomorph body type so it is extremely hard for me to lose fat.


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## Skullpunch (Jun 2, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> I'm going for at least 12% body fat. I'm more of an endomorph body type so it is extremely hard for me to lose fat.



Sounds like you're a natural born strongman type athlete.  Genetically, guys like you tend to have an easy time getting stronger and a hard time improving their stamina.

There are a lot of approaches you can take and as for which one is better…there's a lot of subjectivity there.  Me, personally, I would recommend going with your genetics - focus on strength, use that natural inclination of yours to your advantage as much as you can, develop your style around it, and let your martial arts training cover most of your conditioning with maybe some intervals on the track here and there.  As for the bodyfat, you probably already know this but that's going to be mostly based on your nutrition.

Alternatively, you can train your endurance in the most hell-bent fashion humanly possible and just let your natural strength be your natural strength, however much of it comes will come.  If my guess about your genetics is right you will never have Nick Diaz type endurance no matter how you train, but there are guys who are naturally powerful athletes that have developed high stamina this way while maintaining their natural power - Bas Rutten for example.


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## Kickboxer101 (Jun 6, 2016)

Bit late here only just came back but the basic thing is a mans gotta do what a mans gotta do if you want something do it if you don't then don't who cares about anyone else's opinion


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## Balrog (Jun 8, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> So my goals as far as martial arts is to become the best I can possibly become. What I mean by that is I literally give 100% of my dedication and overall being to training and becoming better.
> 
> I have lost touch with many of my friends because all I do is train and lift weights now, my girlfriend seems unhappy too but honestly I don't care. She may not be the right one if it is too hard to accept I have goals in life.


IMNSHO, you need to seriously rework your goals.   Training is great, but training is not the be-all and end-all.  There is this thing called "life" that you need to put your major focus on.  Otherwise, one day you will jump up and be all happy that you can benchpress some ungodly amount of weight....and you will have no one to share it with.

A strong suggestion:  work out a schedule where physical training takes about 10-15 hours a week.  Devote the rest of your time to your girlfriend, your job, etc.


> I have seen more improvement of myself in the last 8 months since I have in my lifetime. This is all because I want to be something, I want to be somebody, Its my goal to go to competitions whether they be karate competitions, Judo competitions or mma competitions. I honestly don't care what the competition is so long as it will give me the following.
> 
> 1. Credibility.
> 
> ...


You are somebody.  You don't need proof or confirmation of that fact.  If you are training to the best of your abilities, you really don't need anything else.


> So my question is what should I do here as far as continuing my training at the Shou Shu dojo. Many of my friends say that it will never make me meet my goals and they think the teacher is not talented enough.
> 
> I honestly don't value their opinion because they are with all disrespect as possible, idiots. The common answer was "well mma would kick your *** because they throw you to the floor and go to town."


I see another problem here.  Your attitude sucks.  Fix it.


> Yeah, so does Judo, so does mantis and bear in Shou shu, so does many things and kenpo has answers to deal with grappling. I am not the best on the floor but I would by no means feel like a fish out of water and I am not intimidated by it.
> 
> They added "people don't want to see karate, they don't want to see martial arts, they want to see wrestling and see UFC."
> 
> So I guess their idiotic opinion UFC is not martial arts and wrestling is not a martial art, which of course it is a martial art. Anyway my point is there might be some validity to their moronic statements.


If the statements have validity, then they are not moronic, are they?


> The sifu does not wish to let me spar until purple belt which is like the 3rd belt, white, orange then purple. Even then I been hearing their sparring is full contact allowing anything, literally anything but the bouts are only 30 seconds long.
> 
> This of course is a concern for me because real matches are not that short. It is also annoying when it comes time to spar I have to just watch in a horse stance when I want to spar with the others. He did let me spar a few times but after hurting someone by accident he said it was a mistake to let me do that.
> 
> That I don't have enough control yet. I don't agree with this because it was an accident and the guy was smaller than me. It is very hard for me to distinguish the amount of force I should be using. I am often told not enough is being used, then when I use more force I get in trouble.


That was his mistake.  You DON'T have the skills and control to spar yet.  Patience is an acquired virtue, Grasshopper.  I suggest you acquire it now.


> I also never been clear with the sifu about my goals, which might be a problem. I now they do competitions but I am not sure what kind they are as I never been to one.


How can you be clear with him about your goals when you aren't clear with yourself about your goals?  Suggestion:  learn the SMART goal system, then sit down and write out your goals in the SMART style.  It will take you a while but it will be very worth it.


> I am wondering if I should leave and look for an mma place, which the nearest one is very far away. Or if I should stick with this so when I do go to an mma coach, I have more tools he can help me utilize.
> 
> So in your opinion what should I be doing here? Oh and also my weight lifting is still plateud and I can't seem to break a 285 bench press, but the sifu said weight lifting is point less for martial arts which I don't agree with, but that seems to be a common thing among sifus and senseis to say.


That would probably be because it is fairly correct.  Weight lifting is okay as part of training, but you should also be concentrating on cardio and sudden burst movement, neither one of which is provided by weights.  And work the hell out of your basics.  You can never go wrong doing that.


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## TaiChiTJ (Jun 10, 2016)

I just skimmed through all these pages and it looks like you've got a lot of good advice and recommendations, and some deep wisdom born of peoples' experience.

A couple of thoughts:

There are martial arts and there are martial sports. Decide which one you want. If someone wants to really knock your block off, those thirty second round robin sparring sessions sound perfect. Get in, do serious damage quickly, and get out. Your teacher is training you for a crazed attacker, not some sport fight with rules and a ref, decent lighting, a defined area to fight in and safety equipment.

If you want the mma experience you are going to have to find a gym that teaches the sport. Good luck.


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## Juany118 (Jun 13, 2016)

JowGaWolf said:


> Here's some questions with no wrong answers.
> 
> Why do you want to build more muscle?
> Are you building more muscle to be bigger or are you just trying to be stronger?
> ...



The above is why I am huge fan of the TRX system as it is free floating and uses your body weight.  This is good for also training the stabilizer muscles.  If I ever got strong enough to have it feel "easy", time to put on the weight vest I use for running when it's not ridiculously hot out.

Why the running with a weight vest?  After about 2 days as a cop almost 20 years ago I discovered you will always find someone stronger than you, however most people you will find yourself fighting on the street usually aren't big into cardio so if you can force them to act swiftly for a period of time, or just outlast them on whatever the natural pace of the fight is, you win because eventually they are just too winded to fight effectively.


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## JowGaWolf (Jun 13, 2016)

Juany118 said:


> most people you will find yourself fighting on the street usually aren't big into cardio so if you can force them to act swiftly for a period of time, or just outlast them on whatever the natural pace of the fight is, you win because eventually they are just too winded to fight effectively.


I'm big on cardio too.  A few years ago couple of Sanda guys showed me just how out of shape I was during a friendly sparring match. They do cardio before sparring and by the time I got to the sparring I was only 45 seconds from being out of energy.  It's impossible to fight when the body is that tired.


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## Ironbear24 (Jun 13, 2016)

I benched 300. I am very happy now.


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## kuniggety (Jun 13, 2016)

I don't understand the hate some folks are giving off on weight/strength training. I don't do a lot of traditional cardio anymore... Maybe once or twice a week and instead have been focusing on strength training. I've put on some serious muscle and while my 5 mi run time might not be as good, my cardiovascular endurance in training hasn't lessened. Unless you're sitting there for 5 min between sets, you're getting in some cardio... Explosive movements perfect for martial arts.


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## JR 137 (Jun 13, 2016)

I HATE cardio.  It's the most boring thing to me.  But I've really upped my cardio fitness by hitting a heavy bag.  10 two minute rounds with 45 seconds of rest between them.  I combine speed and power in my rounds; basically as hard and fast as I can go.

It's gotten easier lately, and it's not because I'm dancing around the bag more.  Not sure if I'm going to cut the rest to 30 sec, make the rounds 2:30, or add more rounds.  Probably go to 12 or 15 rounds before changing times.

Doing hard rounds on a bag is interval training.  Interval training is far more effective at shredding fat and getting fit than the long duration at a slower pace stuff you see the masses doing on treadmills, bikes, ellipticals, etc.

Just throwing that out there.


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## Ironbear24 (Jun 13, 2016)

Cardio? Is that spanish?


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## JowGaWolf (Jun 13, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> I benched 300. I am very happy now.


Now the question I want to know is... are you satisfied with 300 lbs or are  you going to try to lift 305 now?


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## Ironbear24 (Jun 13, 2016)

JowGaWolf said:


> Now the question I want to know is... are you satisfied with 300 lbs or are  you going to try to lift 305 now?



305 and beyond. It is an endless journey to become better and stronger.


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## JowGaWolf (Jun 13, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> 305 and beyond. It is an endless journey to become better and stronger.


ha ha ha.. yep. I thought so.


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## Ironbear24 (Jun 13, 2016)

JowGaWolf said:


> ha ha ha.. yep. I thought so.



It's like martial arts, is there a point where you stop trying to become better at it?


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## lklawson (Jun 14, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> Cardio? Is that spanish?


Yes.  It's origin is the Spanish Inquisition and it was known to be a particularly vile form of torture.  

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## JowGaWolf (Jun 14, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> It's like martial arts, is there a point where you stop trying to become better at it?


In martial arts I only train one thing: martial arts.   In your case you are training 2 things that are kind of on the "opposite end of a stick."   If I drew a line on paper, martial arts weight lifting would be on one end of the line and the heavy bench pressing with the goal to lift heavy bench press would be on the other end.  The more you head towards trying to lift heavy just for the sake of lifting heavy, the further you move away from the martial arts weight lifting.  The more you move towards martial arts weight lifting the further you'll move away from lifting heavy.

This type of training makes you really strong in multiple areas.  It's not isolating muscles like a curl or bench press does.  It's engaging numerous muscles, meaning the person is getting stronger in more than one area. It also strengthens ligaments and tendons in multiple areas too.  With martial art weight lifting the goal isn't to see how much one can lift.










The other downside of trying to lift as heavy as you can is that it trains slow twitch muscles.  In martial arts you want to train fast twitch muscles more than your slow twitch muscles.  I'll put it in terms of running.  I can either train to be a sprinter or a long distance runner, but I can't train to be both.  I will either train fast twitch muscles or I'll train slow twitch muscles, but it will get to a point were I won't be able to train both.  The heavier the weight is the more it will engage my slow twitch muscles.

You can keep doing what you are doing.  I'm not saying that it's a good thing or a bad thing.  I'm just stating the trade off that you'll experience.


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## JowGaWolf (Jun 14, 2016)

lklawson said:


> Yes.  It's origin is the Spanish Inquisition and it was known to be a particularly vile form of torture.
> 
> Peace favor your sword,
> Kirk


I like that "vile form of torture" cause that's what it feels like lol.


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## Ironbear24 (Jun 14, 2016)

JowGaWolf said:


> In martial arts I only train one thing: martial arts.   In your case you are training 2 things that are kind of on the "opposite end of a stick."   If I drew a line on paper, martial arts weight lifting would be on one end of the line and the heavy bench pressing with the goal to lift heavy bench press would be on the other end.  The more you head towards trying to lift heavy just for the sake of lifting heavy, the further you move away from the martial arts weight lifting.  The more you move towards martial arts weight lifting the further you'll move away from lifting heavy.
> 
> This type of training makes you really strong in multiple areas.  It's not isolating muscles like a curl or bench press does.  It's engaging numerous muscles, meaning the person is getting stronger in more than one area. It also strengthens ligaments and tendons in multiple areas too.  With martial art weight lifting the goal isn't to see how much one can lift.
> 
> ...



Would resistance band training help the fast twitch muscles?


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## Juany118 (Jun 14, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> Would resistance band training help the fast twitch muscles?



This illustrates the basic therories I do it to minimize injury, since I have enough risk of that in MA training and at work.
Increase Your Fast-Twitch Potential With Isometrics

In short, to maximize fast twitch fibers its not even required that you actually move anything, you just have to explosively TRY. So even a wall can be a exercise machine.


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## kuniggety (Jun 14, 2016)

JowGaWolf said:


> In martial arts I only train one thing: martial arts.   In your case you are training 2 things that are kind of on the "opposite end of a stick."   If I drew a line on paper, martial arts weight lifting would be on one end of the line and the heavy bench pressing with the goal to lift heavy bench press would be on the other end.  The more you head towards trying to lift heavy just for the sake of lifting heavy, the further you move away from the martial arts weight lifting.  The more you move towards martial arts weight lifting the further you'll move away from lifting heavy.
> 
> This type of training makes you really strong in multiple areas.  It's not isolating muscles like a curl or bench press does.  It's engaging numerous muscles, meaning the person is getting stronger in more than one area. It also strengthens ligaments and tendons in multiple areas too.  With martial art weight lifting the goal isn't to see how much one can lift.
> 
> ...



I have to disagree here in that lifting weights is not counter to explosive training. It depends on how he lifts. Most Olympic lifts are done in explosive movements and train fast twitch muscles. Not only that, they're not isolating and work multiple muscle groups. You can train for strength or you can body build. The former is great for MA.


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## Juany118 (Jun 14, 2016)

kuniggety said:


> I have to disagree here in that lifting weights is not counter to explosive training. It depends on how he lifts. Most Olympic lifts are done in explosive movements and train fast twitch muscles. Not only that, they're not isolating and work multiple muscle groups. You can train for strength or you can body build. The former is great for MA.



The main important part though is the explosiveness.  You can actually train fast twitch fibers via isometrics vs plyometrics.


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## JowGaWolf (Jun 14, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> Would resistance band training help the fast twitch muscles?


Depends on how you use them.  The more tension you have the more they will engage the slow twitch muscle the less tension you have the more you'll be able to work the fast twitch muscles.  Keep in mind that fast twitch muscles involve muscles used to punch outward and muscles used to pull the punch back in.


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## JowGaWolf (Jun 14, 2016)

kuniggety said:


> I have to disagree here in that lifting weights is not counter to explosive training. It depends on how he lifts. Most Olympic lifts are done in explosive movements and train fast twitch muscles. Not only that, they're not isolating and work multiple muscle groups. You can train for strength or you can body build. The former is great for MA.


Here's as an example.  Notice the heavier the weight the slower the press and the less explosive movements you see. This is perfect example of fast twitch moving into slow twitch.  Ironbear maxed out at 300 meaning that he is definitely working slower arm movement. 





Guy that trains fast twitch muscles vs guy that trains slow twitch muscles





Here's a guy that does both martial arts and body building.. Note the speed at which he does his kicks vs the speed at which you see non-body building TKD practitioners do.





I think of muscles as the engine of my body.  I can either be power as a tank or as powerful as a high performance race car.  I can't be both. My muscle development must reflect the activity that I'm doing.  This is why athletes in different sports have different muscle build that reflect the type of sport they are doing.  Martial arts is no different.


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## Juany118 (Jun 14, 2016)

JowGaWolf said:


> Here's as an example.  Notice the heavier the weight the slower the press and the less explosive movements you see. This is perfect example of fast twitch moving into slow twitch.  Ironbear maxed out at 300 meaning that he is definitely working slower arm movement.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I think the issue is more one of decision.  All those Olympic weight guys do is weights.  So they will train slow twitch with max lifts.  We will call that X.  Then they will train fast twitch with explosive lifts say X-Y, and then build on both.

The question our OP has to ask is "what do I want" because, unless he only has to worry about making time for lifting and for MA, he will have to change his overall training set up as it stands now and compromise if he wants to start building fast twitch.

It's like me when I run.  Yes I will go out and run for sometime for 5k plus miles endurance BUT I also throw in sprints at regular intervals to stress my cardio and not neglect fast twitch muscles.


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## JowGaWolf (Jun 14, 2016)

Juany118 said:


> I think the issue is more one of decision.  All those Olympic weight guys do is weights.  So they will train slow twitch with max lifts.  We will call that X.  Then they will train fast twitch with explosive lifts say X-Y, and then build on both.
> 
> The question our OP has to ask is "what do I want" because, unless he only has to worry about making time for lifting and for MA, he will have to change his overall training set up as it stands now and compromise if he wants to start building fast twitch.
> 
> It's like me when I run.  Yes I will go out and run for sometime for 5k plus miles endurance BUT I also throw in sprints at regular intervals to stress my cardio and not neglect fast twitch muscles.


I'm not saying that he can't train both. I'm just saying that there's a point where there will be a trade off.


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## Juany118 (Jun 14, 2016)

JowGaWolf said:


> I'm not saying that he can't train both. I'm just saying that there's a point where there will be a trade off.



Oh okay I see that and with that in mind the trade off is related to the amount of time you have to devote to that particular type of training.  

That is why I think you don't see a lot of "huge" martial artists tbh.  The amount of time it takes for your "day job" + martial arts + gym work + family/social time means something has to give.


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## Ironbear24 (Jun 14, 2016)

Juany118 said:


> That is why I think you don't see a lot of "huge" martial artists tbh.



Well I would like to be one of them. I feel like they go hand in hand with eachother since your body is what you are using for martial arts, may as well improve your body as well.


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## Juany118 (Jun 14, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> Well I would like to be one of them. I feel like they go hand in hand with eachother since your body is what you are using for martial arts, may as well improve your body as well.



The thing is though there is a limit and it depends on your MA.  I can see a wrestler, a boxer etc wanting to get huge.  However there are some arts where flexibility and speed are HUGE (no pun intended) factors.  Others are balanced.  I don't know much about the Art you practice but getting big and getting fast twitch muscle use two different theories of training.  There is also the fact of where the fast twitch muscles are generated.  

Let's say you do A LOT of bench pressing and do so with fast twitch.  Cool, but where does the majority of your punching strength come from?  Is it snapping from the waist?  If so having all that fast twitch work in your bench press isn't going to be a big help. Even if it is a straight punch, a lot of arts use the legs and back as much, if not more than the chest to produce the power.

It's why earlier I said talk to your Sensei and ask him probing questions about why he said huge size isn't preferable in the art you study.  While we calls these "Martial Arts" when it comes right down to it, strip away the philosophy and they are "Martial Sciences" because they all use different methods of biomechanics to maximize the transfer of energy.


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## Ironbear24 (Jun 14, 2016)

Juany118 said:


> The thing is though there is a limit and it depends on your MA.  I can see a wrestler, a boxer etc wanting to get huge.  However there are some arts where flexibility and speed are HUGE (no pun intended) factors.  Others are balanced.  I don't know much about the Art you practice but getting big and getting fast twitch muscle use two different theories of training.  There is also the fact of where the fast twitch muscles are generated.
> 
> Let's say you do A LOT of bench pressing and do so with fast twitch.  Cool, but where does the majority of your punching strength come from?  Is it snapping from the waist?  If so having all that fast twitch work in your bench press isn't going to be a big help. Even if it is a straight punch, a lot of arts use the legs and back as much, if not more than the chest to produce the power.
> 
> It's why earlier I said talk to your Sensei and ask him probing questions about why he said huge size isn't preferable in the art you study.  While we calls these "Martial Arts" when it comes right down to it, strip away the philosophy and they are "Martial Sciences" because they all use different methods of biomechanics to maximize the transfer of energy.



There is also the fact women like them.


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## Kenpoguy123 (Jun 14, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> There is also the fact women like them.



Firstly you've got a girlfriend why would you care what other women think second if a woman only likes you or wants you for that there's a word for women like thatthat


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## Juany118 (Jun 14, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> There is also the fact women like them.



Indeed they do but first, as someone else said you have  girlfriend.  She was with you before you could bench 300 lbs.  Next, in my experience, while of course most people have certain ideas regarding attractiveness and or a "type" there are complications with the muscle bit.  First if it's gym bunnies beware my friend.  I work with some guys who push heavy plates every morning.  They have gone out with those chicks and it has never worked out well.  

Second you need to be careful on your own.  You seem to have a lot on your plate.  I assume your work, or go to school, you then obviously spend a lot of time in the gym (pressing 300 is no small feet) and you study martial arts, not a small time commitment.  No relationship can be healthy, without paying attention to the person (paramour) or persons (family and friends) involved.  Also I have watched people who ended up defining themselves by those muscles.  That is bad for two reasons.  First they become and obsession and everything else becomes secondary.  Trust me your "better half" and family don't want to feel like they are second to a bar bell.  Then you end up "stuck" with the gym bunnies.

The above may not apply to you, just a caution since I have seen it happen.  Me I am pretty slim, but also athletic and fit.  I never had issues getting girls.  In my experience what they are really attracted to isn't big muscles (and this is actually something evolutionary psychology supports), it's males that are "simply" fit and appear confident.  Confidence comes from different sources for each person.  If you want relationships to last though you need to make sure that "source" doesn't become an obsession.


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## Juany118 (Jun 14, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> There is also the fact women like them.



All the above said, in this case you need to decide then, what are your priorities physically.  Getting big, martial arts, or both.  It could be from talking with your Sensei getting big will hurt the art you chose.  Since you seem to really want to really excel at the Martial Arts as well it may mean you would be better served looking for a different art to study.  Or maybe you really like the art you are taking but want to keep getting bigger so you may have to accept that you are limiting yourself when it comes to your art, even if only to a small degree.  Only you can make these decisions though because we each set our own priorities.


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## zanaffar (Jun 14, 2016)

Keep getting hyuge and pushing big numbers as long as you can! If you keep up with your martial arts training AND get swole in the process, you're going to be a scary dude! If I had the choice of running into someone who looked like Brock Lesnar, or someone who looked like Anderson Silva in a dark alley, you can bet your *** I'd have slightly better control of my bowels having met the latter. You can be quick, flexible, strong, and large as long as you keep your body fat levels in check. 

I guarantee you that you won't get to the "immobile bodybuilder" levels without heavy use of PEDs, and even with those it's not guaranteed without having excellent genetics and spending hours upon hours lifting every day. So unless you hop on the gainz tren to HGHville, you're never going to get "too big" to still be excellent at martial arts.


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## Juany118 (Jun 14, 2016)

zanaffar said:


> Keep getting hyuge and pushing big numbers as long as you can! If you keep up with your martial arts training AND get swole in the process, you're going to be a scary dude! If I had the choice of running into someone who looked like Brock Lesnar, or someone who looked like Anderson Silva in a dark alley, you can bet your *** I'd have slightly better control of my bowels having met the latter. You can be quick, flexible, strong, and large as long as you keep your body fat levels in check.
> 
> I guarantee you that you won't get to the "immobile bodybuilder" levels without heavy use of PEDs, and even with those it's not guaranteed without having excellent genetics and spending hours upon hours lifting every day. So unless you hop on the gainz tren to HGHville, you're never going to get "too big" to still be excellent at martial arts.



I don't think anyone is saying that getting bigger doesn't help.  People are also not saying body builders are immobile.  Thing is you only have so many hours in a week for training; martial arts, weights, cardio, does your art require more flexibility than others, what have you.  Next you need to look at your Martial Art.  If striking is involved in the art what muscles does it use?  Here is an article about weights and boxing style punches How Can An Athlete Improve Their Punching Power? but that type of work out isn't universal.  As an example Wing Chun uses different principles and then you get into arts like Tai Chi Chuan and Baguazhang etc that definitely throw punches in different ways.  It can be because there is a lot of core rotation and "snapping" to power the punch as one example.  

This is all before you run into the slow twitch vs fast twitch muscle fiber issue and there, just working on maxing out a particular lift works against punching because it's not raw strength that makes for a powerful punch.  Simple weight lifting is mostly slow twitch.  For a punch you need speed, some punching styles more than others, and that is fast twitch and that means, if you are using weights to cultivate the muscle, lifting weights that are heavy enough to put stress on the muscle fibers but also light enough to allow you to lift it explosively.  

Now once you got your strength training out of the way, do you need extra flexibility?  Also never forget cardio.  I have come out on top more than once simply because I made the bigger stronger guy "run out of gas".  Martial Arts are about, imo, looking objectively at the requirements of your art then training your body holistically.  I get the feeling from reading the OP's post he first, hasn't actually talked in detail about why his Sensei said that strength wasn't a major factor and then he has his priorities in opposition, he wants to get BIG and study the Martial Art in question but appears to not really want and answer from his Sensei regarding getting "big" because if it makes sense he feels he will have to make a hard choice since he bother wants to get big and excel in the Art.


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## JowGaWolf (Jun 15, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> Well I would like to be one of them.


The only one I know that has done what you are trying to do is this guy.  Known for his martial arts acting and weight lifting 






And this guy. Take note of the training that he's doing and the size of the weights.





This is what he used to look like


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## JowGaWolf (Jun 15, 2016)

Here's a good interview that I think you should watch


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## zanaffar (Jun 15, 2016)

Juany118 said:


> This is all before you run into the slow twitch vs fast twitch muscle fiber issue and there, just working on maxing out a particular lift works against punching because it's not raw strength that makes for a powerful punch.  Simple weight lifting is mostly slow twitch.  For a punch you need speed, some punching styles more than others, and that is fast twitch and that means, if you are using weights to cultivate the muscle, lifting weights that are heavy enough to put stress on the muscle fibers but also light enough to allow you to lift it explosively.


I hate being pedantic, but working with heavy weights at low reps (2 - 6, or even working on a 1 rep max) IS how you engage fast-twitch (Type IIa and IIb) muscle fibers. Slow-twitch (Type I) muscle fibers are able to provide their own source of energy and are used in aerobic activities like steady-state endurance training, circuit training, and, to some point, high-rep weight training.

If you've ever seen bodybuilders, powerlifters, or strongmen doing warm ups to get ready for a 1 rep max attempt of an exercise, let's say bench press, you'll no doubt see them throwing up the weight as quickly and violently as possible during those warm ups. The weight goes up slowly at higher weight not because our muscles are moving slowly by the nature of the muscle fibers utilized; the heavy weight is moving slowly DESPITE us exerting as much force as quickly as possible. If I try to lift my 1 rep max in a controlled, slow motion, I won't even be able to get it off my chest.

Punching and kicking speed comes down to proper technique and your body getting better and more efficient at doing the movement, and from everything I've seen, read, and personal experience on the topic, lifting heavy can only be beneficial.


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## Juany118 (Jun 15, 2016)

zanaffar said:


> I hate being pedantic, but working with heavy weights at low reps (2 - 6, or even working on a 1 rep max) IS how you engage fast-twitch (Type IIa and IIb) muscle fibers. Slow-twitch (Type I) muscle fibers are able to provide their own source of energy and are used in aerobic activities like steady-state endurance training, circuit training, and, to some point, high-rep weight training.
> 
> If you've ever seen bodybuilders, powerlifters, or strongmen doing warm ups to get ready for a 1 rep max attempt of an exercise, let's say bench press, you'll no doubt see them throwing up the weight as quickly and violently as possible during those warm ups. The weight goes up slowly at higher weight not because our muscles are moving slowly by the nature of the muscle fibers utilized; the heavy weight is moving slowly DESPITE us exerting as much force as quickly as possible. If I try to lift my 1 rep max in a controlled, slow motion, I won't even be able to get it off my chest.
> 
> Punching and kicking speed comes down to proper technique and your body getting better and more efficient at doing the movement, and from everything I've seen, read, and personal experience on the topic, lifting heavy can only be beneficial.



The last time I checked to work fast twitch it's not just a matter of weight by explosiveness.  You are right some do it in that matter but it is not universal.  

Regardless my primary point is to say that if you say...
A) I want to excel in my Martial Art
B) I want to get big

You need to see if A and B are compatible.  I know basically nothing about the Martial Art the OP studies but I know if he was say studying Wushu being big would likely be a detriment as that art also requires A LOT of flexibility, overall speed and essentially gymnastic skill.  The amount of time needed to practice all those skill sets would cut into the time you can spend on throwing plates around.

Also I think it important to acknowledge that different punching and kicking techniques utilize different muscle groups, some use A LOT of core muscles.  A lot of weight lifters I see tend to neglect core work that an art like Tai Chi Chuan uses to generate a punch.

So all I say is the OP needs to figure out if his method of working out fits with his MA's methodology, if he wants to excel at it.  Now if he wants to get big in whatever way he wants and it's not optimal for the art and he doesn't care that's cool.  If he wants to balance the two that's cool as well.  

I look at MA's like running.  If you want to compete at a 1/4 mile and in the way you train is different than if you want to compete at 5k, 5k is different than marathon etc.  So depending on the methodology of your martial art (if that is your primary focus mind you), the weight work you do should be tailored to it.


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## Ironbear24 (Jun 15, 2016)

Juany118 said:


> Indeed they do but first, as someone else said you have  girlfriend.  She was with you before you could bench 300 lbs.  Next, in my experience, while of course most people have certain ideas regarding attractiveness and or a "type" there are complications with the muscle bit.  First if it's gym bunnies beware my friend.  I work with some guys who push heavy plates every morning.  They have gone out with those chicks and it has never worked out well.
> 
> Second you need to be careful on your own.  You seem to have a lot on your plate.  I assume your work, or go to school, you then obviously spend a lot of time in the gym (pressing 300 is no small feet) and you study martial arts, not a small time commitment.  No relationship can be healthy, without paying attention to the person (paramour) or persons (family and friends) involved.  Also I have watched people who ended up defining themselves by those muscles.  That is bad for two reasons.  First they become and obsession and everything else becomes secondary.  Trust me your "better half" and family don't want to feel like they are second to a bar bell.  Then you end up "stuck" with the gym bunnies.
> 
> The above may not apply to you, just a caution since I have seen it happen.  Me I am pretty slim, but also athletic and fit.  I never had issues getting girls.  In my experience what they are really attracted to isn't big muscles (and this is actually something evolutionary psychology supports), it's males that are "simply" fit and appear confident.  Confidence comes from different sources for each person.  If you want relationships to last though you need to make sure that "source" doesn't become an obsession.



The gym bunnies are too skinny for me. I like plumpy women. But I do see your point, right now I am having to drag myself to the gym because I am sore from yesterday's dojo session. My balls also hurt cause I got kicked in the nuts by the sifu, and I was wearing a cup and it still hurts.

I haven't been to the gym since Saturday and it is killing me on the inside knowing I haven't been there in 3 days.


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## Juany118 (Jun 15, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> The gym bunnies are too skinny for me. I like plumpy women. But I do see your point, right now I am having to drag myself to the gym because I am sore from yesterday's dojo session. My balls also hurt cause I got kicked in the nuts by the sifu, and I was wearing a cup and it still hurts.
> 
> I haven't been to the gym since Saturday and it is killing me on the inside knowing I haven't been there in 3 days.



Well I know how that feels in the other direction.  I went for a long run last Thursday before class.  In class we did drills on to, well not pretty way to put it, stab someone in the inner thigh with a knife so they bleed out.  Thing is you don't bend at the waist, rather at the knees.  I am 5'11" my "opponent" 5' even.  So 20 minutes of squats after that run.  Friday my quads were SCREAMING even though I made sure I wore my compression shorts to bed.


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## zanaffar (Jun 16, 2016)

Juany118 said:


> The last time I checked to work fast twitch it's not just a matter of weight by explosiveness.  You are right some do it in that matter but it is not universal.
> 
> Regardless my primary point is to say that if you say...
> A) I want to excel in my Martial Art
> ...


Agreed. Can you be a UFC champion and a bodybuilding champion at the same time? Not a chance in hell. Can you be fairly skilled in a combat sport and be bigger, more muscular, and more shredded than 99% of the population? Without a doubt!

Admittedly, I don't know what it takes to be great in the other arts you mentioned like Wushu and Tai Chi Chuan. Perhaps size truly is a huge detriment when you're graded on twisting and flying through the air like in some Wushu demonstrations I've seen, and you'll never be able to reach the top without sacrificing those delicious gains.

It's all a sliding scale, and depending on the OPs definition of "large," "skilled," and what his ultimate goals are, he will have to balance his training accordingly. Not everyone is a genetic monster like Brock Lesnar. If you're expecting to have his NCAA champion speed while walking around at a shredded 260 lbs, you might have to re-evaluate your dreams. Otherwise, train hard, and you can reach a pretty damn good final result.


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## Juany118 (Jun 16, 2016)

zanaffar said:


> Agreed. Can you be a UFC champion and a bodybuilding champion at the same time? Not a chance in hell. Can you be fairly skilled in a combat sport and be bigger, more muscular, and more shredded than 99% of the population? Without a doubt!
> 
> Admittedly, I don't know what it takes to be great in the other arts you mentioned like Wushu and Tai Chi Chuan. Perhaps size truly is a huge detriment when you're graded on twisting and flying through the air like in some Wushu demonstrations I've seen, and you'll never be able to reach the top without sacrificing those delicious gains.
> 
> It's all a sliding scale, and depending on the OPs definition of "large," "skilled," and what his ultimate goals are, he will have to balance his training accordingly. Not everyone is a genetic monster like Brock Lesnar. If you're expecting to have his NCAA champion speed while walking around at a shredded 260 lbs, you might have to re-evaluate your dreams. Otherwise, train hard, and you can reach a pretty damn good final result.



Exactly what I was trying to say.  It's all about priorities in the end.  Only so many hours a week to train and do the regular things in life.  Now if I was independently wealthy and didn't need to work I would prioritize my Martial Arts training.  I wouldn't only be going to my School to learn WC and Kali, I would be going to the "Mother School" where my Sifu's Sifu teaches.  I would apply to the Inosanto Academy to be a Visiting Student for Kali, maybe even check out Silat, which I have only a small taste of since some Silat is in the Inosanto Kali I currently train in along side Wing Chun (gotta love it, Martial Arts and a California Vacation  ). All the while doing the same physical training I am now, maybe a little more, but my focus would be on my MAs.  No decision regarding such priorities is right or wrong, but a decision does need to be made imo, MA>physical training, MA=PT, MA<PT, whichever is cool but one of those three needs to be decided upon.

As for you last bit, absolutely.   Ever wonder why some people look at the NFL Combine and say "that guy must be doing roids?" It's because a linebacker likely should not be doing the 40 as fast as a tight end lol.


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## zanaffar (Jun 16, 2016)

Juany118 said:


> As for you last bit, absolutely.   Ever wonder why some people look at the NFL Combine and say "that guy must be doing roids?" It's because a linebacker likely should not be doing the 40 as fast as a tight end lol.


I am of the opinion that if your job and livelihood depends on being a better physical beastmonster than your competition, then you're going to use every advantage available to you in order to achieve that. I've read anecdotal accounts on anonymous internet forums from various self-proclaimed physicians who have allegedly worked with some of world's top athletes (so take all that with a grain of salt) , and the stories are all the same: "Yes, everyone is doing PEDs. Some are bad at not getting caught." Having said that, you can give the average Joe the exact same doses as these alleged top athletes get, and they will never amount to anything as spectacular as the top guys. PEDs are only one part of the equation. You still need to have inhuman genetics, mental fortitude, and dedication to get to the top.


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## Juany118 (Jun 16, 2016)

zanaffar said:


> I am of the opinion that if your job and livelihood depends on being a better physical beastmonster than your competition, then you're going to use every advantage available to you in order to achieve that. I've read anecdotal accounts on anonymous internet forums from various self-proclaimed physicians who have allegedly worked with some of world's top athletes (so take all that with a grain of salt) , and the stories are all the same: "Yes, everyone is doing PEDs. Some are bad at not getting caught." Having said that, you can give the average Joe the exact same doses as these alleged top athletes get, and they will never amount to anything as spectacular as the top guys. PEDs are only one part of the equation. You still need to have inhuman genetics, mental fortitude, and dedication to get to the top.



I used to be a competitive (though admittedly amateur) cyclist.  You only have to look at lance Armstrong regarding doping in that realm.  We had a saying regarding EPO, arguably the most abused PED in cycling.  "EPO won't turn a draft horse into a thoroughbred" so I totally understand, and agree, with this sentiment.


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