# Ex-Porn star reads to kids



## granfire

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4527084...udents-causes-stir/from/toolbar/#.Tr9vlPKc5Wo

and we have another storm in the water glass.
As Sasha Grey, former porn star reads to elementary students in a California school.

Parents question why the school could not have found a firefighter or policeman to read to the kids.
heck, maybe they need a football coach, I know of a few without a job right now.

(Seriously though...I hope that 1st and 3rd graders have not had an eyefull of Ms Grey in her notable roles. So only the parents really know that this young woman did something other than reading to kids first...)


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## Bob Hubbard

Good for her.


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## WC_lun

As long as she isn't bringing her profession into the school room, I don't see the big deal.  Maybe some of the parents should volunteer to read to the kids, if it is such an issue for them.  Heck, the kids probably just see Ms Grey as a pretty young woman who cares enough to read to them.


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## HammockRider

Next week Ron Jeremy will be teaching Shop Class.


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## Sukerkin

This quote from the young lady shows some well chosen words with some thought behind them:

*"I believe education is a universal right. I committed to this program with the understanding that people would have their own opinions about what I have done, who I am and what I represent," the statement said, according to TMZ.*
*"I am an actor. I am an artist. I am a daughter. I am a sister. I am a partner. I have a past that some people may not agree with, but it does not define who I am."*


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## Sukerkin

People get on their high-horse far too easily and with too little forethought sometimes (I'm as guilty of it as the next man, of course, it is a sad part of human nature to pre-judge ).

I wonder how some of those complaining would react if it was Shannon Tweed (the soon to be Mrs Simmons (about time, Gene!)) rather than Sasha Grey?

EDIT:  I stand corrected, Shannon and Gene are already Mr & Mrs - congratulations to them both and a big "Well done!" to Shannon for making the rock-monster finally do what he claimed he never would .

http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20534013,00.html


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## Xue Sheng

Its California what do you expect :uhyeah:

Xue will now duck and cover


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## JohnEdward

That is funny considering the way porn stars deliver their lines in their movies. Only in California. :lol:


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## Dirty Dog

Would they scream if it had been some action/adventure star who blows up 50 people each movie? Which is worse, blowing them or blowing them up?


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## JohnEdward

But, I do see how some parents may object....having all those parents stay for the reading.    There has to be consideration of the parents and their concerns, equally. You can't condemn parents if you praise Grey for what she is doing.  I am sure the parents where not warned appropriately she would be reading to their kids. That could be the concern of no choice or heads up. Common it's California and not an Amish community in Pennsylvania, I am not sure if her being a porn star is all that big of an issue. The other thing is, she is transitioning from porn to main steam, reading to kids was probably for PR. To shed that porn actress image. Porn actors are not taken seriously as actors in Hollywood, and image is everything. She isn't reading to kids for altruist reasons.


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## Bob Hubbard

John, you and I don't know her. 
I know her work. She was quite good at it, did it for 5 years, and says she's moved on. 

Her comment here is telling:


> Grey, however, has no plan to walk away from programs aimed at helping  kids, saying she'll "remain an active supporter and participant in  education-focused initiatives."


 http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/gossip/2011/11/sasha-grey-porn-reading-school-kids.html

Time will tell if it's PR or sincerity.

Her website: http://sashagrey.com/

Her porn retirement http://www.foxnews.com/entertainmen...sha-grey-porn-refuses-play-sex-related-roles/


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## billc

Well, maybe we could get attractive, well spoken members of the tobacco and alcoholic beverage industries to go and read to the kids as well.  Perhaps even some of the drug cartels could send representatives to read to the kids.  It would be good for them as well don't you think.


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## Bob Hubbard

Not the same argument.

By all reports, Ms. Grey is intelligent, puts herself 100% into whatever she is doing, and has avoided the pitfalls of her former profession.  
She now wants to move forward with the next phase of her life, and in doing so give to a cause that looks to be important to her.

Should puritanical views on sex be allowed to block that?


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## Buka

Maybe reading to the kids should only be done by those with past work experience in higher education. Like, you know, Penn State or something.

As long as her past is in the past, good for her.


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## billc

There is a show called the Big Bang Theory, adult in nature due to sex content, and it is about 4 science geeks and their neighbor, an actress/waitress across the hall.  In one episode the female character, Penny, is stressed about her life and complains to the group that she drove 2 hours to an audition to only find out is was a porn movie.  She didn't take the job.  By allowing Ms. Grey into a classroom, society is saying that porn is actually a viable alternative, no different than police work, being a doctor, or a secretary or a scientist.  The character, Penny, in essence, would have been right to take that film role according to the some of the posters here on Martialtalk.  I understand the idea that it is, in some cases, a personal choice to do that line of work.  Mainstreaming it, by letting Ms. grey read to an elementary school,  essentially says to the older sisters and brothers of those first graders that that line of work isn't any different than any other line of work.  I think that it is.  I don't think she should have been allowed to read to those kids.  She makes it easier for someone on the fringe to make the wrong choices, and more than likely not come out of it the same way Ms. Grey did.


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## JohnEdward

Bob Hubbard said:


> John, you and I don't know her.
> I know her work. She was quite good at it, did it for 5 years, and says she's moved on.
> 
> Her comment here is telling:
> http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/gossip/2011/11/sasha-grey-porn-reading-school-kids.html
> 
> Time will tell if it's PR or sincerity.
> 
> Her website: http://sashagrey.com/
> 
> Her porn retirement http://www.foxnews.com/entertainmen...sha-grey-porn-refuses-play-sex-related-roles/



No moral issue for me. 

Bob, true I don't know her, or her work, I didn't watch her adult films and I don't watch the HBO show. I do know that porn stars have an uphill battle making the transition to mainstream acting - it isn't because of morals.   And she is in Hollywood and from what I read is making the transition. And I know Hollywood, and PR is everything. You have to be noticed, you have to be over the top.  Now she, as a person, may have sincerely read to the kids. I don't know about that. But the arrangements where done for PR reasons, possibly to start a controversy to get her more attention, to get studios to notice her. That is the Hollywood game. I really don't see it as a moral issue, personally. Hell, if it was Charley Sheen, or Lindsey Lohan reading it would be a different story, there would be no disgruntled parents.  It is California after all.  Disgruntled parents where probably upset because she wasn't an "A" star. 

Here is the other deal, California is star struck all the time, the school admin who ok'd this and everyone else who didn't watch her porn movies and only aware of her HBO work, said MOVIE STAR, WE GOT A MOVIE STAR.  Then one kid whose parent watches porn and knows of her movies gets upset and makes a stink. The school should have been more responsible in notifying parents. To avoid this. But it was probably sprung on the school within a couple of days, being star struck went Ga Ga over it.  Knowing full well by Grey's people it would be controversial and would get her into the news.  

I don't think it has anything to do with morals. My god, its California, I am surprised some stage parents weren't offer up their kids to her.


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## JohnEdward

Buka said:


> Maybe reading to the kids should only be done by those with past work experience in higher education. Like, you know, Penn State or something.
> 
> As long as her past is in the past, good for her.



Oh....that is rough.....:lol: is that wrong for me to laugh at.


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## billc

I'm curious, was it the drug cartel point that you see as not being the same?  I can see that point since drugs right now are illegal, and the drug cartels kill innocents to do their business.  What if, in the future, the recreational drug business is legal, would it be okay for an attractive, well spoken member of that industry to read to first graders?


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## elder999

billcihak said:


> . Mainstreaming it, by letting Ms. grey read to an elementary school, essentially says to the older sisters and brothers of those first graders that that line of work isn't any different than any other line of work. I think that it is. I don't think she should have been allowed to read to those kids. She makes it easier for someone on the fringe to make the wrong choices, and more than likely not come out of it the same way Ms. Grey did.



Except that she _*was*_ on the fringe-she *is* mainstream. Having her read to 1st and 3rd graders wasn't a big deal-they probably didn't know what her mainstream work was any more than they knew what her porn work was. The problem, of course, is that people called attention to the fact of who she is/was/used to be. Little kids went home or to the library and Googled her. Parents were outraged. Big whoop.

 When's the last time* you *read to a room full of kids? She used to make nasty movies, so she shouldn't be permitted anywhere near children, or to do _good_ things?

In life, young man, there are *choices*-you might not agree with them, might not make them the same way, and might raise your children not to make those choices-as I did. What you can't do is _judge_ those choices, or  people too harshly for making them, _especially when they've made changes_-it's kind of like condemning an alchoholic who hasn't touched a drop in 10 years, in my opinion.


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## Bob Hubbard

bill.  keyword. former.


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## billc

Not judging her, she made bad choices, and seems to be moving on.  My problem is that she may influence the other kids that do know about her into making the choices she made, under the false assumption that because she made it out alive and healthy, they will too.  She is incredibly lucky, and or smart to have negotiated that industry and made it out safely.  Her sitting there, attractive and well spoken gives a legitimacy to an incredibly dangerous industry.  Children on the fringes, who can be swayed down one path or another with a gentle push, are not helped by her appearance in that school.  There are a lot of other people who could and actually do read to kids all the time.  It was dangerous to let her read to those kids, not dangerous to the 1st graders, who obviously don't know who she is, but to the older sisters and brothers who do.  What happens when these 1st graders go home and google her.  Do you want to explain her industry to a 1st grader who happens on her sites?


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## JohnEdward

billcihak said:


> I'm curious, was it the drug cartel point that you see as not being the same?  I can see that point since drugs right now are illegal, and the drug cartels kill innocents to do their business.  What if, in the future, the recreational drug business is legal, would it be okay for an attractive, well spoken member of that industry to read to first graders?



Bill, I see you points. I understand them.  Puritan and alike morality has little influence today on kids. Top businessmen, top politicians, top entertainers, government, and almost every public leadership area or public figure upheld has people at their top doing immoral and unethical acts. Being an ex-porn star is almost laughable. Would people be upset if a star rapper know for their drug use, gang involvement, for convicted of killing someone, who turned TV star came into their school to read. No. Or a politician like Cain, who is being accused of sexual harassment. No. Look at Michael Jackson, 99.999% of the grade schools in the country would fight over him if he would have wanted to read in a school. Parents where throwing their kids at him. It is fact, unless you live in an Amish community, as an example, to avoid the threat you speak of .


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## billc

Well, look son or daughter, you shouldn't go into porn because of the chance at abuse, disease, alcohol or drug addiction.  But Dad, look at Sasha Grey, she is rich and beautiful and even reads to kids.  Besides, I as a teenage girl or boy believe I am indestructible and there is no way anything bad would happen to me, look at Sasha Grey, she is rich and beautiful, it didn't happen to her.


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## JohnEdward

billcihak said:


> .  What happens when these 1st graders go home and google her.  Do you want to explain her industry to a 1st grader who happens on her sites?


 You say it is Mommy and Daddy's fault for not reseting their web browser.


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## Bill Mattocks

I don't care about this issue at all.  It's all about various agendas of various people, and it's their drama, not mine.


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## billc

I wouldn't want a rap star with a criminal history, or a politician or government official with a criminal history in a classroom either.  Herman Cain should be left out because the allegations are just that, allegations without material support.  It is tough for good parents to raise good kids and almost impossible for bad parents to raise good kids.  Adding Ms. Grey into the mix is an unnecessary complication that doesn't help parents do their job.


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## elder999

billcihak said:


> . It is tough for good parents to raise good kids and almost impossible for bad parents to raise good kids. Adding Ms. Grey into the mix is an unnecessary complication that doesn't help parents do their job.



THis is somewhat overblown. I managed to raise two good kids who have managed to turn themselves into good adults. WHile some might say that I was a good parent, it didn't always feel that way-unlike most of the systems I've developed or worked with, kids don't come with any kind of manual. There are a few guidebooks, including the Bible, and all of them have been used to raise good kids, and _to raise completely ****ed up ones._ 

Do you have any idea how many girls/women there are in the sex industry that were raised in a strict, religious, morally rigid environment, where one did not speak opf such things? It's *a lot*. :lol:


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## JohnEdward

billcihak said:


> Well, look son or daughter, you shouldn't go into porn because of the chance at abuse, disease, alcohol or drug addiction.  But Dad, look at Sasha Grey, she is rich and beautiful and even reads to kids.  Besides, I as a teenage girl or boy believe I am indestructible and there is no way anything bad would happen to me, look at Sasha Grey, she is rich and beautiful, it didn't happen to her.
> 
> I wouldn't want a rap star with a criminal history, or a politician or government official with a criminal history in a classroom either. Herman Cain should be left out because the allegations are just that, allegations without material support. It is tough for good parents to raise good kids and almost impossible for bad parents to raise good kids. Adding Ms. Grey into the mix is an unnecessary complication that doesn't help parents do their job.​



I think you make a good point. But that applies to all entertainers, i.e. Angelina Jolie, passionately kissing her brother, rumors of sex with her brother, drinking human blood, drug abuse, her tattoos, her nude soft porn scenes, etc. Take anyone in the public eye, it applies that they are not ideal role models. Hell Grey is just an ex-porn star, 99.9999999999% of 1st graders have no clue to who she is. I didn't know who she is, but I know who Jenna Jamison is her and Tito where an item, and young boys following the MMA knew who she was.  But 99% 1st graders know who Jolie is, and Google has  more search results on her and her actions. Pick your poison.


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## tshadowchaser

I find it interesting that so many parents knew her  old work


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## granfire

Seems to me that the adults don't want to share.....


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## CanuckMA

billcihak said:


> Well, look son or daughter, you shouldn't go into porn because of the chance at abuse, disease, alcohol or drug addiction.  But Dad, look at Sasha Grey, she is rich and beautiful and even reads to kids.  Besides, I as a teenage girl or boy believe I am indestructible and there is no way anything bad would happen to me, look at Sasha Grey, she is rich and beautiful, it didn't happen to her.



Because none of that happen to mainstream actors? Does the name Lindsay Lohan ring a bell? I'd much rather have Ms. grey than Ms. Lohan read to kids.


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## billc

I wouldn't want either one to read to kids, or Paris Hilton for that matter or any number of men or women who have made bad choices.


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## The Last Legionary

billcihak said:


> Not judging her, *she made bad choices*,



But you did just judge her as you decided her choices were bad. The only dangers are the ones being imagined by minds locked tight in prejudice.


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## Bob Hubbard

Sasha can read to me anytime. I'd even let her read to my son.


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## billc

yes, I can see that those really are the only dangers.


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## JohnEdward

billcihak said:


> I wouldn't want either one to read to kids, or Paris Hilton for that matter or any number of men or women who have made bad choices.



Mother Theresa has passed.   


I respect your views. I think parents with the same views are going to have a hard time finding someone to fit their criteria.  I do think the school should have done their homework and notified parents giving them an option. That applies to everyone they host.


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## Black Belt Jedi

I will have bad vibes that an ex adult film star reading for school-children. It doesn't sit right for me. I would rather have a policeman, firefighter, a famous sports star or even the Queen of England read to school-children. I wonder who would be the next guest to appear at an elementary school...Lex Steele? Yeah Lex Steele to teach a math class. Now that's a lot of class.


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## granfire

Black Belt Jedi said:


> I will have bad vibes that an ex adult film star reading for school-children. It doesn't sit right for me. I would rather have a policeman, firefighter, a famous sports star or even the Queen of England read to school-children. I wonder who would be the next guest to appear at an elementary school...Lex Steele? Yeah Lex Steele to teach a math class. Now that's a lot of class.



How about that Sandusky guy? I am sure he would have jumped at the chance.
Probably only for the sweet boys though....

See the problem?


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## Bob Hubbard

How about Traci Lords?
Her porn career ended over 20 years ago.  She's gone on to become a successful actress and musician.  Is she still damaged goods?
What is the 'statute of limitations' here?


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## seasoned

I feel that it is very clear by the article, that this was a few years ago, and that she has moved on. If it was a matter of breaking the law in some way that would put the children in danger, that this opportunity for her would not have happen. 

I have raised two children of my own and from passed experiences, would use situations like this to teach life lessons of forgiveness, openness, and, the fact that no matter what our lot in life is, we can always better ourselves. 

We all have choices in life, and at any time when their motivation is right, I feel everyone is entitled to a second chance.


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## Dirty Dog

billcihak said:


> Well, maybe we could get attractive, well spoken members of the tobacco and alcoholic beverage industries to go and read to the kids as well.  Perhaps even some of the drug cartels could send representatives to read to the kids.  It would be good for them as well don't you think.



So in your mind sex == cocaine.
I remember now why I don't bother to read much of what you post.


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## billc

No, the porn industry is especially subject to abuse, addiction and other soul and life destroying practices.   The industry is the problem, and I have to wonder, would any of the posters supporting her appearance in the school have any objection to a representative of the tobacco industry reading to kids?


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## JohnEdward

Bob Hubbard said:


> How about Traci Lords?
> Her porn career ended over 20 years ago.  She's gone on to become a successful actress and musician.  Is she still damaged goods?
> What is the 'statute of limitations' here?



That is a good point too. That is what I was alluding too with Jolie's past. There is this odd line, if you are full blown porn actor you are damaged goods. Hollywood doesn't consider you a "real" actor. But if you play it like Jolie did, breeching taboos you are acceptable, you are acting material. If your Ice-T same thing, you can kill people, go to jail and be a gangsta musician- rapping violence and sex, and turn actor, you are not damaged goods.  Yet, if you are Paul Rubens, caught masturbating in a porn theater outside your character, almost unrecognizable your damaged goods. You can be Sylvester Stallone or any number of mega movie starts who in their past, made porn movies and not be damaged goods. Or make a sex tape, Rob Lowe suffer from it, then years later have Pamela Anderson do a sex tape and start an industry tend. 

I think the 'statue of limitations' is don't be in the porn business long. Hollywood doesn't like the porn business much because they mock Hollywood films, in porn movies. That I guess is changing as the porn business is cutting back on that and are a multi-billion dollar business. And you see Grey making a transition from being a full porn star to movie star, which wouldn't have happened 10 years ago. Grey would be in another career.


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## billc

Let's test the level of tolerance here.  How many of the posters here, who support her reading to the first graders would support the local high school taking a bus load of teenagers to an adult film industry convention as part of career day?  If this industry is no different than any other, wouldn't you have to say that there would be no problem if your kids went to this career day event?


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## Bob Hubbard

Bill,
  My issue here is she is a -former-, not -current- porn star.  But even if she was a current, being a porn star -alone- isn't cause for me to dismiss her.  There are a few other's in that industry who I wouldn't have problems with reading to kids. Nina Hartley. Carol Cox. Danni Ashe. Asia Carrera. More here http://www.ranker.com/list/the-13-smartest-porn-stars-of-all-time/greg.

Not all porn stars are drugged out hobag losers.  

Bouncing back to Ms. Lords, her I actually wouldn't want reading to kids. Because by all reports she's still pretty much a lying user and is the type that would do this just for PR.

As to the tobacco folk, no, I wouldn't want them there as they sell poison. But a -former- CEO for RJ Reynolds, maybe.


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## Bob Hubbard

billcihak said:


> ... taking a bus load of teenagers to an adult film industry convention as part of career day?  If this industry is no different than any other, wouldn't you have to say that there would be no problem if your kids went to this career day event?



Sounds like a great Senior Day trip.  I ended up seeing Platoon.  Not quite the same.


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## billc

Hmmm...tobacco use is also a choice?  It wouldn't be like he would be handing out cigarettes to the kids.  The rep. from the tobacco industry would also be attractive and well spoken and would only read to the kids.


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## Bob Hubbard

billcihak said:


> Hmmm...tobacco use is also a choice?  It wouldn't be like he would be handing out cigarettes to the kids.  The rep. from the tobacco industry would also be attractive and well spoken and would only read to the kids.



But he would only be there to encourage kids to smoke right?


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## billc

I have known people who smoked all their lives, lived into their 90's and didn't seem affected by smoking.  My Drill sergeant, an army ranger forced into drill sergeant school, smoked like a chimney and could run us into the ground.  Smoking is a lifestyle choice as well.  Sure, the industry may have bad elements to it, but there are people who aren't affected by it or who smoke for a while and stop, or only smoke recreationally.  Why would a tobacco rep. be any different?


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## billc

No, just to promote reading, just like Ms. Grey.


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## Black Belt Jedi

billcihak said:


> Let's test the level of tolerance here.  How many of the posters here, who support her reading to the first graders would support the local high school taking a bus load of teenagers to an adult film industry convention as part of career day?  If this industry is no different than any other, wouldn't you have to say that there would be no problem if your kids went to this career day event?



I don't support it at all. I find it strange for a former adult film star like Sasha Grey to make an appearance at an elementary school despite being in that industry for only a few years. I wonder what this world is coming to. I hope that teenagers won't be sent on a field trip to an adult film industry. It's too much and it's inappropriate. Some things need to be kept underground.


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## jks9199

Was she fully clothed?  Reading age-appropriate material?  Conducting herself in an appropriate manner?

Then maybe the problem is with those who recognized her, not her reading to the kids...


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## billc

Well, that might be the case jks9199, but once her name was out there people would look her up and find out who she was after the fact.  Not allowing the parents to make the choice in wether their kid participated was irresponsible on the part of the school regardless of where people fall on Ms Grey as an individual.  Parents have a right to raise their kids in the way they choose, and the school shouldn't make what is a controversial decision without informing the parents first.


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## jks9199

JohnEdward said:


> But, I do see how some parents may object....having all those parents stay for the reading.    There has to be consideration of the parents and their concerns, equally. You can't condemn parents if you praise Grey for what she is doing.  I am sure the parents where not warned appropriately she would be reading to their kids. That could be the concern of no choice or heads up. Common it's California and not an Amish community in Pennsylvania, I am not sure if her being a porn star is all that big of an issue. The other thing is, she is transitioning from porn to main steam, reading to kids was probably for PR. To shed that porn actress image. Porn actors are not taken seriously as actors in Hollywood, and image is everything. She isn't reading to kids for altruist reasons.


What warning was needed?  Who cares why she read to the kids?  An adult, outside their ordinary circle, showed interest in them, and came in and read to them.  Oh... and you think Michelle Obama, or Laura Bush or any other First Lady reads to kids for altruistic reasons?  OK -- maybe Laura Bush; it would be consistent with her past to do so out of a sincere interest in education.


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## Josh Oakley

Dirty Dog said:


> So in your mind sex == cocaine.


Only if you're doing it right!


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## jks9199

billcihak said:


> There is a show called the Big Bang Theory, adult in nature due to sex content, and it is about 4 science geeks and their neighbor, an actress/waitress across the hall.  In one episode the female character, Penny, is stressed about her life and complains to the group that she drove 2 hours to an audition to only find out is was a porn movie.  She didn't take the job.  By allowing Ms. Grey into a classroom, society is saying that porn is actually a viable alternative, no different than police work, being a doctor, or a secretary or a scientist.  The character, Penny, in essence, would have been right to take that film role according to the some of the posters here on Martialtalk.  I understand the idea that it is, in some cases, a personal choice to do that line of work.  Mainstreaming it, by letting Ms. grey read to an elementary school,  essentially says to the older sisters and brothers of those first graders that that line of work isn't any different than any other line of work.  I think that it is.  I don't think she should have been allowed to read to those kids.  She makes it easier for someone on the fringe to make the wrong choices, and more than likely not come out of it the same way Ms. Grey did.



Is it any different?  For those performers who do porn by choice (and with the move/rise in on-line porn, it's more and more of them) -- what's wrong with their choice?  I may not agree with it (for the record, I don't) -- but they're not pushing drugs, lying about pension investments, giving loans to people who'll never be able to afford them...  I can think of far worse and far more destructive things they could do.


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## elder999

Well, let's look at this another way. Would it still be objectionable if one of her kids were in the class?

I mean, Jenna Jameson (who is or has been pretty much everything billi has to say about the porn industry and its actresses) has twin boys with Tito Ortiz, who will be going to kindergarten around 2016. Should she be kept away from her kids's school activities because of the delicate sensibilities of other parents, and the potential corruption of their little children?


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## Josh Oakley

Me I am seeing an icreased opportunity for literacy.


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## billc

So, the posters supporting Ms. Grey would have no problem with a tobacco company rep, who was attractive and well spoken, and had children in the 1st grade class, would have no problem with them reading to the class?


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## granfire

elder999 said:


> Well, let's look at this another way. Would it still be objectionable if one of her kids were in the class?
> 
> I mean, Jenna Jameson (who is or has been pretty much everything billi has to say about the porn industry and its actresses) has twin boys with Tito Ortiz, who will be going to kindergarten around 2016. Should she be kept away from her kids's school activities because of the delicate sensibilities of other parents, and the potential corruption of their little children?



No, her children ought to be kept in a cage at the sideshow.

It's kind of hilarious. I suppose it's Ok to watch porn, but not to make it?


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## billc

Porn is a choice, and I am a free speech kind of person, but would it be okay for a high school to send kids to a convention for career day,...that is if it is no different than any other profession?  Is it then a viable choice for a high school, after school job?


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## The Last Legionary

An attractive, successful, self assured young woman telling kids it's cool to read.
Yeah, that's so wrong.


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## The Last Legionary

billcihak said:


> I have known people who smoked all their lives, lived into their 90's and didn't seem affected by smoking.  My Drill sergeant, an army ranger forced into drill sergeant school, smoked like a chimney and could run us into the ground.  Smoking is a lifestyle choice as well.  Sure, the industry may have bad elements to it, but there are people who aren't affected by it or who smoke for a while and stop, or only smoke recreationally.  Why would a tobacco rep. be any different?



And there are no known health issues with smoking, and the users smell great!


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## elder999

billcihak said:


> So, the posters supporting Ms. Grey would have no problem with a tobacco company rep, who was attractive and well spoken, and had children in the 1st grade class, would have no problem with them reading to the class?



No more than I would a priest, imam or a rabbi-as long as they just read the story, rather than trying to convert the class. My dad was a priest, ya know, and the times were different, but today I could see him being excluded from school activitives by just the sort of _*P.C. *_thinking you're embracing here.....


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## billc

Of course there are health issues with smoking, but there are just as many and more in the porn industry and yet, some posters would allow Ms. Grey to read to the class but not the tobacco industry rep.  I find that somewhat odd is all.


----------



## billc

An attractive, self-assured, successful member of an inner city gang telling kids reading is cool, is that so wrong?:ultracool


----------



## jks9199

billcihak said:


> Well, that might be the case jks9199, but once her name was out there people would look her up and find out who she was after the fact.  Not allowing the parents to make the choice in wether their kid participated was irresponsible on the part of the school regardless of where people fall on Ms Grey as an individual.  Parents have a right to raise their kids in the way they choose, and the school shouldn't make what is a controversial decision without informing the parents first.


Parents do indeed have a right to raise their kids in the way and moral climate they choose.  With that right is responsibility.  If you cede 6 to 8 hours or more of your kid's day to the state -- you either accept that the state will teach things you may disagree with.  Alternatively -- you homeschool or send your kids to a parochial school or other private school that mirrors your own feelings.


----------



## The Last Legionary

billcihak said:


> An attractive, self-assured, successful member of an inner city gang telling kids reading is cool, is that so wrong?:ultracool



Depends. Whats the rap sheet look like? Actually, convicted felons talk to kids all the time in schools. By invitation. With permission.
So sounds like clueless prudes with hangups finding issue when there is none to me.


----------



## elder999

billcihak said:


> An attractive, self-assured, successful member of an inner city gang telling kids reading is cool, is that so wrong?:ultracool



So, just to sum up what your position seems to be, we need to keep porn stars, former porn stars, priests-especially *Catholic *priests, I'd guess-imams, rabbis, gang members, former gang members, lesbians, homsexuals, tobacco industry reps, plastic surgeons, pharmaceutical company reps, former drug dealers, former drug users, drug users, and all politicians out of the classroom.


----------



## billc

I'm talking about an un-repentant gang member, proud of their work, not a reformed gang member who works to keep kids out of gangs.  It sounds like Ms. Grey is proud of her work.

Here is one for the posters, for those who support Ms. Grey and consider her former industry as neutral as any other and above the tobacco industry, how many of you would actively encourage a son or daughter to go into that industry?  None of the " I would support them regardless of the choice they make," stuff either.  I am talking about actively encouraging them the way you might encourage them to become a teacher or doctor?


----------



## jks9199

billcihak said:


> So, the posters supporting Ms. Grey would have no problem with a tobacco company rep, who was attractive and well spoken, and had children in the 1st grade class, would have no problem with them reading to the class?


Nope, no problem.  Nor a banker.  Or even a gang member.  Would I have an issue if they were teaching a class on ethical behavior in high school?  Yeah.  Different question.


----------



## seasoned

billcihak said:


> An attractive, self-assured, successful member of an inner city gang telling kids reading is cool, is that so wrong?:ultracool




> "The world is Black, White and *Grey*, knowing where the differences are is the beginning of wisdom.--Me"



Perhaps the world is not as limited as your signature would elude to, and there may be some, between the lines, possibilities.

Just a thought. 






















​


----------



## billc

Elder, I didn't mention any religous people.  I have no problem with priests, rabbis, muslims or bhudists reading to kids or any other denomination although I would stop at devil worshipers,  they sacrifice cats.  Just about all of the categories you mentioned would be fine.  The porn industry though is not an appropriate industry for reading to kids, current or former.  Un-repentant current and former drug users would also be off of my list.  People who gave up drugs and were trying to keep kids from making their mistakes would be fine, especially just reading to 1st graders.


----------



## jks9199

elder999 said:


> So, just to sum up what your position seems to be, we need to keep porn stars, former porn stars, priests-especially *Catholic *priests, I'd guess-imams, rabbis, gang members, former gang members, lesbians, homsexuals, tobacco industry reps, plastic surgeons, pharmaceutical company reps, former drug dealers, former drug users, drug users, and all politicians out of the classroom.


Apparently, only those without sin or fault may speak to children.  Maybe Fred Rogers was OK... but he's deceased.

Gonna make for some long, empty days in the schools, I suppose.


----------



## billc

Politicians should be kept out as well, they have too many problems that you won't find out about till their arrest.


----------



## billc

I know it takes a bit for posts to appear, but my position isn't that people need to be pure, as I posted above.  There are some things that should stay in the adult world and not intrude into just being a kid.


----------



## jks9199

billcihak said:


> I'm talking about an un-repentant gang member, proud of their work, not a reformed gang member who works to keep kids out of gangs.  It sounds like Ms. Grey is proud of her work.
> 
> Here is one for the posters, for those who support Ms. Grey and consider her former industry as neutral as any other and above the tobacco industry, how many cf you would actively encourage a son or daughter to go into that industry?  None of the " I would support them regardless of the choice they make," stuff either.  I am talking about actively encouraging them the way you might encourage them to become a teacher or doctor?



I would not.  But simply meeting a porn star isn't going to push him one way or the other -- unless I've already failed by not teaching him my moral code in the first place.


----------



## jks9199

billcihak said:


> Elder, I didn't mention any religous people.  I have no problem with priests, rabbis, muslims or bhudists reading to kids or any other denomination although I would stop at devil worshipers,  they sacrifice cats.  Just about all of the categories you mentioned would be fine.  The porn industry though is not an appropriate industry for reading to kids, current or former.  Un-repentant current and former drug users would also be off of my list.  People who gave up drugs and were trying to keep kids from making their mistakes would be fine, especially just reading to 1st graders.



So a FORMER porn star isn't permitted... but a former drug user or former gang member is?  Which other jobs or professions give a permanent stain to the person?


----------



## billc

I'm curious, why not.  It seems that many think the porn business is no different than any other industry, there is a great deal of money in it as well as fame, from what I can tell no heavy lifting and the hours are pretty good.  There is probably the chance at travel as well.  Why wouldn't you encourage your son or daughter to go into this apparently harmless profession?  Heck, they even help kids learn to read.  What's not to like?


----------



## billc

Well how bad an industry can it be if they read to kids?  Isn't it therefore a viable career option for your kids?


----------



## billc

A strong factor is the fact that she is applauded for her career in porn, and is also proud of her career in porn.  The former drug dealer/user or gang member would need to not be proud of their past life and trying to keep other kids from making their mistakes.  That would be a big difference for a start.  The porn industry is apparently seen as legitimate where drug use and gang membership are not.


----------



## jks9199

billcihak said:


> I'm curious, why not.  It seems that many think the porn business is no different than any other industry, there is a great deal of money in it as well as fame, from what I can tell no heavy lifting and the hours are pretty good.  There is probably the chance at travel as well.  Why wouldn't you encourage your son or daughter to go into this apparently harmless profession?  Heck, they even help kids learn to read.  What's not to like?



Interestingly enough, that's NOT what I said.  I do believe that the porn industry is gravely disordered, and a perversion of something that belongs within the bounds of marriage.  I never said differently.  I didn't even say it did no harm, because I do believe that it has great potential to harm marriages and chastity.  Just like I don't consider prostitution, even with a fully willing and consenting person, as either victimless or harmless.  But those are MY beliefs -- and this Miss Grey wasn't espousing her former industry or her current line of work.  She was reading to kids.  I can draw the line between the sinner and the sin.


----------



## billc

But can a teenager?  If they find themselves in trouble, with no money to pay the rent, why not do some quick porn for cash.  Look at Ms. Grey, she apparently did porn for 5 years, looks beautiful, is rich, well spoken, is on a popular cable show, and is looked up to by the community.  You can't say she isn't now looked up to, they let her read to kids.   You are a good dad, as far as I can tell, but are teenagers smart enough to not see Ms. Grey in a more nuanced light.


----------



## billc

I'm not trying to attack you Jks, it is just that some questions need to be examined in this debate beyond her reading to kids.  I like what you have to say about marriage and the rest, it is the same way I generally feel.   The deeper issues here need to be examined though.


----------



## elder999

You're still missing a point, billi, by not answering my earlier question: Should Jenna Jameson be permitted to read to her boys' elementary school classes? Or bake cookies? Or chaperone field trips? If we exclude her on the basis of her profession/former profession, whom else should we exclude?


----------



## billc

Hmm...I don't know about Jameson.  If her kids are in class then it is already a known quantity in the community, so she could probably do all the mom stuff for her kids. The Grey issue is different because she has no ties to that classroom and no kids in the school, as a controversial figure, the parents should have been told before the event and given the option to opt out.  Why invite that industry into the classroom by bringing Grey into it.


----------



## billc

Elder, would you suggest to your kids that instead of being a teacher, or a scientist, they should go into the porn business because they would make more money?  Or perhaps that their career in porn would be just as rewarding as one in science, with less homework and no college needed?


----------



## jks9199

billcihak said:


> But can a teenager?  If they find themselves in trouble, with no money to pay the rent, why not do some quick porn for cash.  Look at Ms. Grey, she apparently did porn for 5 years, looks beautiful, is rich, well spoken, is on a popular cable show, and is looked up to by the community.  You can't say she isn't now looked up to, they let her read to kids.   You are a good dad, as far as I can tell, but are teenagers smart enough to not see Ms. Grey in a more nuanced light.



Again -- by the time the kid's a teen, you have either succeeded in teaching them your values, or failed.  There comes a time when they may choose on their own to do things that you are against, but unless you're going to lock them away or stay by their side 24/7 -- you're going to have to trust that, by and large, they will make choices in concert with how you raised them.

And we're not talking about teenagers.  We're talking about elementary school students (1st & 3rd grade.)  Who probably would have had no idea who she was had it simply been left "Sasha Grey, actress."  Honestly, were she to speak at a high school, I wouldn't have a major problem with it, either.  Though I do suspect that there'd be so much silliness from the male students (and some teachers) that her message would be lost.


----------



## elder999

billcihak said:


> Hmm...I don't know about Jameson. If her kids are in class then it is already a known quantity in the community, so she could probably do all the mom stuff for her kids. The Grey issue is different because she has no ties to that classroom and no kids in the school, as a controversial figure, the parents should have been told before the event and given the option to opt out. Why invite that industry into the classroom by bringing Grey into it.


\

Grey wasn't controversial until she read for the class, as a volunteer. 

"That industry" is "_Hollywood_," no matter how much they might seem separated, or the insistence upon such from the perceived "legitimate side" of it.


If you can't exclude Jameson for "already being a known quanity," how can you exclude someone else for not being known? Or include those who might likewise be found to be controversial, like a Catholic priest? Certainly not without letting the parents have the option of opting out:_This week's reader will be the Reverend Joe Paterno Sandusky, of the Catholic Church. Those parents who have objections can designate an altenate activity for their children here._ :lfao:


----------



## billc

Elder, parents should be made aware of anyone outside of the school coming in to interact with students.  If the person is a parent coming in with a student in the school,  essentially what I meant by a known quantity, that is different, they are part of that school community already.  Or perhaps a Muslim Imam, Elder?


----------



## elder999

billcihak said:


> Elder, would you suggest to your kids that instead of being a teacher, or a scientist, they should go into the porn business because they would make more money? Or perhaps that their career in porn would be just as rewarding as one in science, with less homework and no college needed?



Some of the older members might tell you that you're asking the wrong guy. :lfao:

Ironically, my son *is* a teacher; my daughter *is* a doctor. I made no suggestions to their career choices, and only told them that whatever choice they made, I would still love them. THat's the end of the story. If they'd asked me about working in porn, I'd have given them my opinion, and _the same answer_.


----------



## billc

Wow, my psychic abilities must be starting to manifest themselves.  Two for two, that's not bad.


----------



## The Last Legionary

Would I have a problem with my kids going into porn?
Not if it is their choice.
Now if they start doing drugs I'll beat their asses into paste.


----------



## Bob Hubbard

Bill, let me turn this around for a moment.

Should a person who left a woman to drown be allowed to read to these kids?
Should a person who had a high publicity affair on his wife be allowed to read to these kids?
Should a person who is a convicted rapist be allowed to read to these kids?

yes or no only please.


----------



## billc

No.
No.
No.

I do believe I already said that politicians shouldn't be allowed to read to kids either.


----------



## Makalakumu

HammockRider said:


> Next week Ron Jeremy will be teaching Shop Class.



Ron Jeremy actually was a Special Education Teacher before he became a porn star.


----------



## Bob Hubbard

Makalakumu said:


> Ron Jeremy actually was a Special Education Teacher before he became a porn star.


Ron should be President.  His industry experience would be helpful in dealing with lobbyists.


----------



## Makalakumu

Bob Hubbard said:


> Ron should be President.  His industry experience would be helpful in dealing with lobbyists.



Hell, he'd be really really really good at dealing with politicians!


----------



## granfire

Bob Hubbard said:


> Bill, let me turn this around for a moment.
> 
> Should a person who left a woman to drown be allowed to read to these kids?
> Should a person who had a high publicity affair on his wife be allowed to read to these kids?
> Should a person who is a convicted rapist be allowed to read to these kids?
> 
> yes or no only please.



I am sure you have specific ideas in mind?

So far I have the impression that billi does not want to include people with open lifestyle changes around. He prefers people who do their dirty business in private.

(Or campus showers, whatever qualifies for secluded for you)

Frankly, I have not seen too many people volunteering in schools, reading or otherwise. 
From the 'good' crowd, you know.


(billi's position brings a line to mind from a German comedian: "Tolerant, I am not!")
:lfao:


----------



## JohnEdward

Bill's Puritan perspective is shared by millions of people. It was a view that was prevalent in this country for centuries it is still active today, right or wrong. I don't see anything wrong with getting a women who wasn't in the Adult Film Industry to read to kids over a women who was an Adult film star. Because of the role model concern. And because when they the get old enough to comprehend who she is...well kids will be kids. And for parents who see eye to eye with Bill it is an issue for them to have an ex-porn star read to their kids and they dynamic of when they all discover that a porn star read to them. Then the parents in this case didn't have a choice or option to the reading. Then the post experience of that, the publicity. Maybe parents don't what their kids part of that either. I can understand that.  I respect that. But that is also their value system and that system is no longer shared by all. 

This is an example, of a point I want to make. I think Grey reading to the class is equally as bad as Martha Stewart reading to the class. My opinion. Someone else my feel Grey that is ok and Stewart isn't. Their opinion. Is one better than the other. No. But the issue again is respecting others views and cultures which is part of our public school system which the school didn't honor.  Maybe because, like I said, they got star struck and her arrival was short notice.  The school should apologize, and avoid that type of situation again. 

You also have to consider, this country isn't white bible belt bread.  You probably had all sorts of kids from different backgrounds, religions, ethnicities in that class including Muslims, Hispanic Catholics, etc.  I think having her read was irresponsible on the school's part without the consideration.  Schools don't and shouldn't have that kind of publicity. 

I don't hold anything against her. But she should of thought about it too, and considered her actions. Maybe she didn't because she wanted the publicity. That could be exploitation of kids.


----------



## billc

Hmmm... I don't believe I said she couldn't go into that industry or that that industry should be ended by state or private action.  I simply don't think it is a good idea to have someone who actively supports that industry, proudly, in a school where she doesn't have kids.  Hardly makes me a puritan, just someone who looks at the issue a little more deeply than some.


----------



## MJS

granfire said:


> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4527084...udents-causes-stir/from/toolbar/#.Tr9vlPKc5Wo
> 
> and we have another storm in the water glass.
> As Sasha Grey, former porn star reads to elementary students in a California school.
> 
> Parents question why the school could not have found a firefighter or policeman to read to the kids.
> heck, maybe they need a football coach, I know of a few without a job right now.
> 
> (Seriously though...I hope that 1st and 3rd graders have not had an eyefull of Ms Grey in her notable roles. So only the parents really know that this young woman did something other than reading to kids first...)



Damn, why couldn't I have had this when I was in school! LOL! 

Ok, all kidding aside...I dont see a problem with this.  Unless someone opens their mouth, I highly doubt these kids will know her past.  I doubt this is the first time a former (insert drug addict, alcoholic, etc.) has talked to kids about something.


----------



## ballen0351

MJS said:


> Damn, why couldn't I have had this when I was in school! LOL!
> 
> .



1st thing that popped in my head too lol.


----------



## granfire

yeah, but at 6 or 8...you would not have been able to appreciate it! 
Now, that bunch of high school seniors I get to talk to here and there.....

:lol:


----------



## Bob Hubbard

> But she should of thought about it too, and considered her actions.



Considering she probably did, and considering that the activity she engaged in is legal in the US, it's a non-issue to me.
I don't see her as 'morally bad'. Her choice of careers isn't one I'd have chosen however. 
For the smart *** who will ask why, I'll say it's because it's bad enough I get compared to Jack Black and Kevin Smith.
I don't want to be compared to Ron Jeremy.


But unless she stopped to shag the pool cleaner between chapters, or showed up dressed like Lady Gaga, I don't see a problem.  She was most likely introduced as a model, actress or musician.

Not as an ex-knob-gobbler-cum-dumpster.

Oh, and the questions I asked Bill?
Who was I referring to?
Ted Kennedy, Bobby Kennedy, John Kennedy, Bill Clinton, Mike Tyson, George Dubya Bush, Arnold Schwarzenegger, and at least a dozen more.


----------



## granfire

Bob Hubbard said:


> Considering she probably did, and considering that the activity she engaged in is legal in the US, it's a non-issue to me.
> I don't see her as 'morally bad'. Her choice of careers isn't one I'd have chosen however.
> For the smart *** who will ask why, I'll say it's because it's bad enough I get compared to Jack Black and Kevin Smith.
> I don't want to be compared to Ron Jeremy.
> 
> 
> But unless she stopped to shag the pool cleaner between chapters, *or showed up dressed like Lady Gaga,* I don't see a problem.  She was most likely introduced as a model, actress or musician.
> 
> Not as an ex-knob-gobbler-cum-dumpster.
> 
> Oh, and the questions I asked Bill?
> Who was I referring to?
> Ted Kennedy, Bobby Kennedy, John Kennedy, Bill Clinton, Mike Tyson, George Dubya Bush, Arnold Schwarzenegger, and at least a dozen more.



LOL, Lady Gaga....would you let her read to your elementary school class?


----------



## billc

Which one does George Bush fit into, not the rapist, the drowner or the cheater, at least not that I have heard and believe me, if there was a scent of any of that we would know about it.  The kennedy's, a real bunch of scum, ditto for clinton.  Who is the rapist in this stack, Clinton, yeah, I  believe Juanita Broderick and the woman from Highlander, but he was never brought to trial on that or convicted.  Oh, Mike Tyson, can he even read himself?  I wouldn't let any of those except for perhaps Bush to read to kids, which he did on the day of 9/11.  But, as a rule, I wouldn't want any politicians reading to kids either.


----------



## Bob Hubbard

You know Gran.....based on what little I know about Gaga.....much as I'm not a fan, not into the lifestyle, not into the 'scene', music etc....

I'd have to say that I probably would.


----------



## billc

Not to mention the kennedy/dodd waitress sandwich, which they both got away with and dodd is still in office and was one of the prime movers in the mortgage crisis, and still is in office.


----------



## Bob Hubbard

billcihak said:


> Which one does George Bush fit into, not the rapist, the drowner or the cheater, at least not that I have heard and believe me, if there was a scent of any of that we would know about it.  The kennedy's, a real bunch of scum, ditto for clinton.  Who is the rapist in this stack, Clinton, yeah, I  believe Juanita Broderick and the woman from Highlander, but he was never brought to trial on that or convicted.  Oh, Mike Tyson, can he even read himself?  I wouldn't let any of those except for perhaps Bush to read to kids, which he did on the day of 9/11.  But, as a rule, I wouldn't want any politicians reading to kids either.



Bush has/had a mistress while he was Gov.  He's also an admitted abuser of illegal drugs, and has a questionable military background.
Tyson has a rape conviction.

The Kennedy's were known for their sexual, ah, extravagances.

Arnold, had that mistress.   It's not a rumor.  


Here's another couple:
Would you let the late Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, former Buffalo Bill Jim Kelley, or the late Gracie Allen (wife of the late George Burns) read to kids?


----------



## billc

Do you have proof of the mistress, cause I have to say, I doubt that would have gone unnoticed by the mainstream press, considering the front page coverage of his 1976 DUI arrest the weekend before the election.  It is just hard to believe that that escaped attention, or mention.  The sketchy military record is a silly charge, I was in the national guard, I know how that works, and true, the illegal drugs was bad, but did he profess that they were good for people.  If he did he would be disqualified for that, but the politician thing still stands.


----------



## billc

Well, were Jobs, Gates or the others in the porn business?


----------



## granfire

Bob Hubbard said:


> You know Gran.....based on what little I know about Gaga.....much as I'm not a fan, not into the lifestyle, not into the 'scene', music etc....
> 
> I'd have to say that I probably would.



Yeah, but if she walked in in elementary school fit clothes, would you recognize her?


----------



## JohnEdward

billcihak said:


> Well, were Jobs, Gates or the others in the porn business?



Well...um.....they brought it into the home at the tip of the fingers?  A many young where very grateful.


----------



## granfire

JohnEdward said:


> Well...um.....they brought it into the home at the tip of the fingers?  A many young where very grateful.



Not just young ones....


----------



## billc

Hmmm...show of hands, how many posters here would tell their 17 year old son or daughter, "forget working at the big box store, forget waitressing, I have set up an audition for you with a porn director, you'll make a lot more money than you would at the big box store and have better hours."  Well, show of hands please, no chickens allowed.

I'll read your responses tomorrow, adieu.


----------



## granfire

billcihak said:


> Hmmm...show of hands, how many posters here would tell their 17 year old son or daughter, "forget working at the big box store, forget waitressing, I have set up an audition for you with a porn director, you'll make a lot more money than you would at the big box store and have better hours."  Well, show of hands please, no chickens allowed.
> 
> I'll read your responses tomorrow, adieu.



Don't be obtuse.

The lady was reading to 1st and 3rd graders. Kids that are somewhere around 6 and 8 or 9 years old.
If you let those kids on the internet unsupervised an ex-pornstar won't hurt the parenting one iota!

Considering that we just had a little outrage in the nation about a well respected football coach turning several blind eyes to the rape of children of this age bracket, are you for real?


(and I believe the legal age for adult film making is 18)

Then again....
How about Drew Barrymore as keynote speaker for the annual Dr Zeus fest in the library? 
I mean, she played in a fairy tale movie (aside from doing just about everything else other than sex tapes)


----------



## JohnEdward

billcihak said:


> Hmmm...show of hands, how many posters here would tell their 17 year old son or daughter, "forget working at the big box store, forget waitressing, I have set up an audition for you with a porn director, you'll make a lot more money than you would at the big box store and have better hours."  Well, show of hands please, no chickens allowed.
> 
> I'll read your responses tomorrow, adieu.




I don't see it that way. As I said, the school screwed up. Just because you have a porn star reading a book to kids, doesn't mean you will be a porn star. There isn't enough interaction or time spent with the students. At that age the students are too young, it takes allot of indoctrination and reinforcement. She would have had to introduce herself as an ex-porn star. Like, "hey kids when you grow up get into the porn industry, you make money like me."  She was probably introduced as a movie star, which none of the kids new of.  Oh,  I had a teacher who was an ex-musican in the sixth grade, I didn't turn out to be a musician. It was too brief of an encounter to a group too young to be influenced.  For them to be influenced to get into the porn business they would have to be exposed to porn and have parents who didn't find porn to be an issue. Or have a personality, once exposed to porn, got into the business to rebel against their parents. Things like that. Not one visit from an ex-porn star, who is a movie star reading them a book has a great impact to get them into  Adult film industry..


----------



## David43515

With this many pages I`m sure the topic has changed from it`s original one to lots of arguing and personal attacks I just don`t feel like reading, so I didn`t. I read the first two pages, decided to comment, and then I`ll leave the topic for good.

I`m an ordained minister and a former full-time missionary. I`ve also been working as a junior high school teacher since I moved here seven years ago. I don`t see anything wrong with Miss Grey reading to kids at all. I`d be happy to have her come read at the two elementary school classes I do each week. How many of the people who become teachers every year have never been drunk,gotten high, had premarital sex, gotten in a fight,gone streaking or mooned someone? How many of the parents have never done something they regret? But people change, and most of us are well behaved around little kids. I doubt if she`s reading them Penthouse Letters, or doing it in a thong.


----------



## ballen0351

If she was introduced as a former porn star then its bad.  If she was introduced as current actress on hit tv shows and the porn thing was never brought up then no big deal the kids would. Not know her past unless an adult told them.


----------



## Bob Hubbard

billcihak said:


> Do you have proof of the mistress, cause I have to say, I doubt that would have gone unnoticed by the mainstream press, considering the front page coverage of his 1976 DUI arrest the weekend before the election.  It is just hard to believe that that escaped attention, or mention.  The sketchy military record is a silly charge, I was in the national guard, I know how that works, and true, the illegal drugs was bad, but did he profess that they were good for people.  If he did he would be disqualified for that, but the politician thing still stands.



I have the information on that from someone in Austin.

Again though, 
Would you let the late Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, former Buffalo Bill Jim  Kelley, or the late Gracie Allen (wife of the late George Burns) read to  kids? 				

Jobs - former druggie, spent years denying paternity, abusive towards his employees.
Gates - Ruthless businessman
Kelley - Womanizer, who when his nightclubs went titsup, allowed several local mom-n-pops to go under rather than pay the bills his company owes which he could have easily afforded at the time.
Allen - jewel smuggler, nabbed by the IRS. Burns paid the fine.


----------



## Tez3

Why do you have people come in to read to the children? Isn't that the teacher's job at school and the parents at home?


----------



## CanuckMA

billcihak said:


> So, the posters supporting Ms. Grey would have no problem with a tobacco company rep, who was attractive and well spoken, and had children in the 1st grade class, would have no problem with them reading to the class?



As long as he/she does not promote the industry, no problem at all.


----------



## CanuckMA

billcihak said:


> Porn is a choice, and I am a free speech kind of person, but would it be okay for a high school to send kids to a convention for career day,...that is if it is no different than any other profession?  Is it then a viable choice for a high school, after school job?



No, but only because the kids are not of age to 'use' the product. She was not there as a porn star.


----------



## CanuckMA

billcihak said:


> An attractive, self-assured, successful member of an inner city gang telling kids reading is cool, is that so wrong?:ultracool



Making  a living through illegal activities. Not the same thing at all.


----------



## granfire

Tez3 said:


> Why do you have people come in to read to the children? Isn't that the teacher's job at school and the parents at home?



In a perfect world that would be all that is needed. 

Sadly, too many 'parents' do not give a rip, if they don't actively torpedo the teacher's attempts to fill their kids with some education.


----------



## Tez3

granfire said:


> In a perfect world that would be all that is needed.
> 
> Sadly, too many 'parents' do not give a rip, if they don't actively torpedo the teacher's attempts to fill their kids with some education.



By the time children are six they should however have been reading by themselves for a couple of years, certainly by 8 or 9 they shouldn't need to be read to as part of a lesson.


----------



## granfire

Tez3 said:


> By the time children are six they should however have been reading by themselves for a couple of years, certainly by 8 or 9 they shouldn't need to be read to as part of a lesson.



But still, at that age I enjoyed having somebody read to me. ^_^ 
I remember when we tried to convince the teachers to do some reading around special holidays, like the week before Christmas break. (we didn't start reading before 1st grade though, and my poor kid was subjected to 'dibbles' odd syllables that you will never find in any word in that form ever. Never did figure out why they would come up with stuff like that)

But I guess in this day and age, it's important for kids to see that there is something past the iphone in terms of written communication.


----------



## RandomPhantom700

Bob Hubbard said:


> puts herself 100% into whatever she is doing,



*snerk*

Nine pages late on that one.  Sorry, continue.   :rofl:


----------



## JohnEdward

I respect Bill, if it wasn't for him this thread would have died. And he seems to be the lone opposition voice representing many. He makes a point we should be cautious of, is this a slipper slope. Sure Grey reading isn't going to turn these kids to the porn industry. What it might do is set a standard for all young women to enter the movie business through the porn industry. The movie stars that did a few porn movies, and where not heavily into the industry like Grey, winning adult film awards, and being praised by critics, if famous enough will bury their past film(s) by buying the rights and taking the films off the market.  Those like Sylvester Stallion. These stars don't perpetuate the way to stardom is through porn, as they ink it out. 

Realistically, it would have to take more than one porn star like Grey to set a precedence. And it isn't just reading to one class of kids starting the sliding down the slope.  Grey my move us closer to the slope.  It will be if she holds up her porn career along side her movie, or music career, and the hight of her fame. And if Hollywood embraces and panders to that. If that is the case, she will become a model parents may not want their tweens and teens to follow.


----------



## punisher73

I guess my biggest question is how many people on here that are against this are also the same ones that profess to be Christian.  If they realize something and turn their back on it and are moving in a more positive manner, aren't we supposed to support that?  Or is that only when it is convienant and not something we really have to address?


----------



## granfire

JohnEdward said:


> I respect Bill, if it wasn't for him this thread would have died. And he seems to be the lone opposition voice representing many. He makes a point we should be cautious of, is this a slipper slope. Sure Grey reading isn't going to turn these kids to the porn industry. What it might do is set a standard for all young women to enter the movie business through the porn industry. The movie stars that did a few porn movies, and where not heavily into the industry like Grey, winning adult film awards, and being praised by critics, if famous enough will bury their past film(s) by buying the rights and taking the films off the market.  Those like Sylvester Stallion. These stars don't perpetuate the way to stardom is through porn, as they ink it out.
> 
> Realistically, it would have to take more than one porn star like Grey to set a precedence. And it isn't just reading to one class of kids starting the sliding down the slope.  Grey my move us closer to the slope.  It will be if she holds up her porn career along side her movie, or music career, and the hight of her fame. And if Hollywood embraces and panders to that. If that is the case, she will become a model parents may not want their tweens and teens to follow.



it's BS.
it's a double standard.
We have the lovely Paris Hilton, being prime time all over every media. She did not get 'paid' for her sex tape. but sheesh, since Pamela Anderson, it's a carrier move to have one 'leaked'.
Same about the new darling of the popular primetime/daytime TV shows. Kim Kardashian?
Now there is a lesson to be learned:
make sex tape, get TV show. And I don't see an outcry there.

What is the difference, I pray do tell.

Oh, right.
One is lending her face to education, the other to enrich herself.


----------



## sfs982000

hammockrider said:


> next week ron jeremy will be teaching shop class.



lol


----------



## sfs982000

It seems to me that this is another case of the parents making a mountain out of a  mole hill.  I actually have to commend her for taking the time out to spend with the kids and read to them and as long as she isn't bringing her former profession into it I don't see what the problem is.  If the parents have that big of a concern with it then they should take the time out of their busy schedule and go and read to the kids themselves.


----------



## JohnEdward

granfire said:


> it's BS.
> it's a double standard.
> We have the lovely Paris Hilton, being prime time all over every media. She did not get 'paid' for her sex tape. but sheesh, since Pamela Anderson, it's a carrier move to have one 'leaked'.
> Same about the new darling of the popular primetime/daytime TV shows. Kim Kardashian?
> Now there is a lesson to be learned:
> make sex tape, get TV show. And I don't see an outcry there.
> 
> What is the difference, I pray do tell.
> 
> Oh, right.
> One is lending her face to education, the other to enrich herself.



I am sorry but that isn't what I am saying. I am addressing those who see things as Bill has said has some credibility. There is a possibility that a precedence can be set as Bill outlined.  We have proof of the viability of the possibility the perception that the way to get into movies is through porn. We look at music,  for example, there was a time when the requirements for gangsta rap you need street cred to be taken seriously as a rapper. A fact that influenced kids of many ages. There are other examples as well, like if your not getting the attention as a actor, a sex tape will get you back into the mix. 

I see a slipper slope, I see depending on how Grey handles herself, if she holds up her porn industry career along side her movie career, with how big of a movie star she becomes, she could set a precedence in Hollywood to accept porn stars openly among their ranks, and influence other porn actors to make the transition in ease.  This combination could influence those 12- 18 to think a way into the movie business is through porn.

Bill maybe exaggerating his point, but there is a possibly kids and parents will think the way into mainstream movies is through pron.


----------



## JohnEdward

Reading to kids is an educational tradition, and a sound tool in helping kids learn to read and master language.  It is also an American tradition that is fading away, i.e. the bed-time story. There was a time when reading a book to your kid(s) was quality time instead of watching TV, or being engaged in other technology. That isn't the issue here, the issue is choice of reader for some parents who didn't have the option of not having Ms. Grey read to their kids. You have to respect the rights of parents who don't see Ms.Grey as a role model, and provide those parents an option. That wasn't done. It is up to the school to know Ms. Grey *was* a hard core porn star, and let the parents know about the event before hand. It is a simple matter of professional common curtsey and respect for everyone around.  

My contention is with the school's lack of foresight, and as a publicity stunt and the exploitation of the kids to boost her career. She is intelligent enough to realize that. The little of what I read about her points to her pronounced intelligence.


----------



## Chris Parker

Still not right, though. For precedence, look to Traci Lords, Jenna Jameson, the "E" Network and their guest hosts at times, Tera Patrick, and the plethora of other adult stars who have appeared in mainstream work over the last, oh, 15 years. Sasha isn't a precedent, but she is one of the more credible to take on a mainstream acting profession. She's hardly the first, though.

Oh, and speaking as possibly the only person here who's actually met Sasha Grey, albeit for a few minutes when she was in Melbourne two years ago, I'd like to say that she comes across as a very sweet, sincere, serious, and intelligent young woman (I'd say more intelligent than a number of posters here, honestly). Personally, although she's not entirely my taste (she is closer than a range of other adult stars, though) I'd have no problem taking her to "meet my mother"... and I don't tend to introduce anyone to my folks!


----------



## Bob Hubbard

Pamela Anderson.  Former Playboy centerfold. Actress.  Porn Star.  Involved in numerous causes, including PETA.


> Pamela Denise Anderson (born July 1, 1967) is a Canadian-American actress, model, producer, author, activist, and former showgirl, known for her roles on the television series Home Improvement, Baywatch, and V.I.P. She was chosen as a Playmate of the Month for Playboy magazine in February 1990.
> ...
> Anderson is a vegan, an advocate for animal rights, and an active member of the animal protection organization People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA), taking part in several campaigns for animal rights.
> ...
> In March 2005, Anderson became a spokesmodel for MAC Cosmetics's MAC AIDS Fund, which helped people affected by AIDS and HIV. After becoming the official spokesmodel, Anderson raised money during events in Toronto, Tokyo, Dublin, and Athens.
> 
> Anderson became the celebrity spokesperson for the American Liver Foundation, and served as the Grand Marshal of the SOS motorcycle ride fundraiser.


Jenny McCarthy. 


> Jennifer Ann "Jenny" McCarthy (born November 1, 1972)[1][2] is an American model, comedian, actress, author, activist, and game show host. She began her career in 1993 as a nude model for Playboy magazine and was later named their Playmate of the Year. McCarthy then parlayed her Playboy fame into a successful television and film acting career. Most recently, she has written books about parenting, and has become an activist promoting the controversial claims that vaccines cause autism[3] and that chelation therapy helps cure it&#8212;both claims which are widely unrecognized or disputed by the medical community.




Asia Carrera - 370 adult films
- won a full academic scholarship to Rutgers University and is a member of Mensa
- Considered the smartest porn star, she's an avid gamer, web designer and more.

Annie Sprinkle Ph.D.
- former prostitute, stripper, pornographic actress, cable television host, porn magazine editor, writer and sex film producer. She received a BFA in photography from the School of Visual Arts in 1986 and earned a degree in human sexuality from the Institute for Advanced Study of Human Sexuality in San Francisco in 1992. Currently, Dr. Sprinkle works as a performance artist and sex educator.

Shy Love
- graduated high school at the age of 16, then earned a bachelor's degree and two Masters Degrees. She got her Bachelor's degree in Accounting, then got her Master's Degree in Accounting immediately afterward. Also a BD in Taxation.
- CPA

It goes on.  There's 5 from the adult industry. No drugged out whores, not $5 party girls.
- Authors.
- Actresses
- Models
- Business Owners
- Activists.
- Mensa members
- Geeks.
- Doctors.
- Educators.
- Accountants.  (ok this last one is weird.)

So the condemnation here is an artificial one, a 'moral' one. If you believe porn is bad, then they must not be good roll models.  If you think it's fine it's a non-issue.
If you think prostitution is wrong, they are victims, exploited, abused.  If you don't, it's a non issue.

So why would a Mensa member, and a child genius with several college degrees before she was 20 choose to screw on film?
Theres a better question to ponder.


----------



## JohnEdward

Too late to edit. Because this is a heated subject I want to be more precise. 





JohnEdward said:


> I respect Bill, if it wasn't for him this thread would have died. And he seems to be the lone opposition voice representing many. He makes a point we should be cautious of, is this a slipper slope. Sure Grey reading isn't going to turn these kids to the porn industry. What it might do is set a standard for all young women to enter the movie business through the porn industry. The movie stars that did a few porn movies, and where not heavily into the industry like Grey, winning adult film awards, and being praised by critics, if famous enough will bury their past film(s) by buying the rights and taking the films off the market.  Those like Sylvester Stallion. These stars don't perpetuate the way to stardom is through porn, as they ink it out.
> 
> Realistically, it would have to take more than one porn star like Grey to set a precedence. And it isn't just reading to one class of kids starting the sliding down the slope.  Grey my move us closer to the slope. She could set a greater precedence to what Bill is speaking too. But for that possibility to happen, some things would need to take place, for example, if she holds up her porn career along side her movie, or music career, and if she raises to mainstream stardom. And if Hollywood (studios) embraces and panders to porn stars wanting to get into mainstream film. Etc.  If that is the case, she will become a model parents may not want their tweens and teens to follow as a way to get into movies is through porn. I don't think the schools will take kids to a porn site for career day. But it may be lectured or discussed as a way into the movie business in high school drama class where Grey is seen as a pioneer.That is a realistic  concern, especially in Cali (the likely hood of it, is yet to be seen and not in Grey reading to kids).


----------



## Bob Hubbard

JohnEdward said:


> Reading to kids is an educational tradition, and a sound tool in helping kids learn to read and master language.  It is also an American tradition that is fading away, i.e. the bed-time story. There was a time when reading a book to your kid(s) was quality time instead of watching TV, or being engaged in other technology. That isn't the issue here,* the issue is choice of reader for some parents who didn't have the option of not having Ms. Grey read to their kids. You have to respect the rights of parents who don't see Ms.Grey as a role model, and provide those parents an option. That wasn't done. *It is up to the school to know Ms. Grey *was* a hard core porn star, and let the parents know about the event before hand. It is a simple matter of professional common curtsey and respect for everyone around.
> 
> My contention is with the school's lack of foresight, and as a publicity stunt and the exploitation of the kids to boost her career. She is intelligent enough to realize that. The little of what I read about her points to her pronounced intelligence.



John, I'll concede the point bolded above.

I disagree that Ms Grey is seeking to exploit kids for a boost. Evidence about her doesn't suggest that IMO.


----------



## JohnEdward

Bob Hubbard said:


> John, I'll concede the point bolded above.
> 
> I disagree that Ms Grey is seeking to exploit kids for a boost. Evidence about her doesn't suggest that IMO.



True that is my opinion, and it is arguable. I base it on the fact she is starting a mainstream movie career and possibly wanting to change her image picking that venue because it gets her attention.  After all she is in Hollywood, a world in of its own. 

I don't know all the details, or will I presume to,. I don't know if she just dropped by, or was this arranged. If it was arranged though her agent or PR person, I would say a high possibility of  exploitation, publicity stunt. The M.O. for such a thing is to contact the press.   If she lives in that area and contacted the school to read, and a parent called the press, then I would say, yes, there is no exploitation. 

But above all she is a "B" list actor on her way to "A" list. Her motives then become questionable. We can see her drive and ambition in the critics reviews and awards she has gotten in the Adult film industry, so  I don't rule that out she may have done this as a career move. That is par for the course in Hollywood. In case you might think I am stone set on the idea that her reading to the kids was purely motivated by improving her image, and progressing her career through controversy, am not. I just think there is a greater probability than not. If she did do this as a publicity stunt, than it is her character that is questioned.


----------



## JohnEdward

Also if we are to be open minded about this, we can't close off our minds to those parents who feel Ms. Grey doesn't represent or model their morals they want their kids to learn. Now I personally, would have her read to my kids instead of say Ice-T. I would want a letter from the school announcing either one. If it was Ice-T, I would not think kids would think because he read to them would will lead to a career day in the hood. Nor that of Ms. Grey.   For me it is a matter of respect and curtsy on the behalf of the school to inform who is the guess reader, and not find out from the news or from my kid. Respect and openness has to be across the board.


----------



## granfire

Would my motives be questionable if I read to the school?

After all I am an aspiring writer.


But in essence, the double standard is questionable.
We pick and choose our sins we live with. 

We have a few 'role models' who are openly tolerated, even protected in the _illegal _activities.

Seems to me more that the parents have a major problem with how the sweet angels in school were originally conceived (and I thought that kind of thinking was unique to the Bible Belt)

(not to mention, it's a sexist piece of crap: I am sure Ron Jeremy would not make that many ripples would he go back to teaching as this young woman did just _reading)

_This young woman did not break laws, is not convicted of felonies not misdemeanors (as far as we know) has not spend time in jail...did not kill anybody, did not steal...yet she is damaged goods.

The girl you want to date (yeah, I know, _dating_ is not the priority,more like reenactment) but in no way shape or form present to mom.


but I suppose we keep it like in Penn State:
Up until a few weeks ago they let a known child rapist roam their campus to use it as his private layer.


----------



## RandomPhantom700

Ok more seriously, though.  It's great that Ms. Grey has moved on in her career.  The fact remains that she is an ex-porn star, and to some parents, having her take part in their children's education is a legitimate concern.  I would say the same thing if, rather than being an ex-porn star, the person was instead a has-been skinflick producer, or some other shady yet still legal professional.  What if the school had decided to have a one-time Big Tobacco exec read to kids?  

Even if Ms. Grey has moved on and had only the most well-intentioned reasons for taking part, and even if the reading in class was only that, the school would still be seen as promoting an ex-porn star as a role model to the kids.  For that reason alone, I probably would have voted against the idea if I'd been on whatever committee made that choice.


----------



## JohnEdward

_move comment into the following post of mine. _


----------



## Steve

Personally, even were she an active porn star, I still don't see the problem.  

Porn is legal.  If she's of age, working for above board production companies, it's legal.  It IS a viable option to working at the grocery store or being a teacher.  Many of those girls make a boatload of money for a couple hours work per day.  It's their choice.   Would I want my daughter's doing it?  No.  Of course, I'd hope that they have better options.  In the same vein, I would hope that they have better options than flipping burgers full time, too.  Sex is just not a big deal, guys, and it remains very odd to me that it's illegal to sell something in our country that we can give away for free any time we want.  

I don't know about in California, but anyone who volunteers in the classroom or as a chaperon must agree to a background check.  I presume it's something similar in California.  Provided she has no convictions, isn't a registered sex offender and to the best of anyone's knowledge, isn't actively engaging in anything illegal, what's the problem?


----------



## JohnEdward

Steve said:


> Personally, even were she an active porn star, I still don't see the problem.
> 
> I don't know about in California, but anyone who volunteers in the classroom or as a chaperon must agree to a background check.  I presume it's something similar in California.  Provided she has no convictions, isn't a registered sex offender and to the best of anyone's knowledge, isn't actively engaging in anything illegal, what's the problem?



Some people do see it as a problem that has to be respected. Look at the example, I gave about the coach being fired for handing out his motivational survey. What he did was not illegal, just politically incorrect at the worse. It upset people it wasn't illegal by any means. It got him fired. Now, how would those people feel if he turned around and read to their kids? Should we dismiss their concerns? I don't think so.  It isn't about Grey reading being legal or not, it is about the school being responsible and respectful of the parents they serve.  Just as the school that fired this coach was.  

http://www.advocate.com/News/Daily_News/2011/11/11/Antigay_Survey_a_Fumble_for_Prep_Football_Coach/

[_Coach handed survey out as motivational tool with these questions on it to players_] The survey, under a list of reasons for hurt feelings, includes such choices as &#8220;I am a queer,&#8221; &#8220;I am a [another name for female genitalia or weak male],&#8221; &#8220;I am a little [another name for female genitalia or weak male],&#8221; and &#8220;I have woman like hormones.&#8221; It asks for the name of the &#8220;little sissy filing report&#8221; and his &#8220;girly-man signature,&#8221; plus the &#8220;real-man signature&#8221; of the person accused of causing hurt feelings.

Who would let this ex-coach read to their young kids? Especially if he was doing so to change his image for the purpose of enhancing his career.

Point here is to see that not all parents have the same values or concerns. And that using kids to boost your career by making you more mainstream acceptable is wrong. If she was doing that.  Just as wrong as if this coach does the same thing in the future.


----------



## crushing

Steve said:


> *Sex is just not a big deal*, guys, and it remains very odd to me that it's illegal to sell something in our country that we can give away for free any time we want.



Are you sure you're doing it right?

:uhyeah:


----------



## Nomad

Wow... what controversy!

My first thought was "How nice that an entertainer like Ms. Grey, who so often are completely selfish and narcissistic, would give of herself and her time to do something so basic as help out at a school" (goodness knows with budget cuts they can use all the help they can get!).

In no way was she doing anything inappropriate, and her past should have no bearing on this type of volunteer work.

This only became a big deal because some parents saw some pictures of this and... ahem... recognized her, presumably from her former body of work (pun fully intended) and decided to make a stink about it.


----------



## Steve

JohnEdward said:


> Some people do see it as a problem that has to be respected.


Respected?  Sure.  But there is a big difference between acknowledging someone else's _opinion_ and allowing it to be confused with canon.  In this, given that she is presumably a law-abiding adult who passed a standard criminal background check (if California's anything like Washington) and is behaving appropriately around the kids, why is your opinion more or less important than my own?   In other words, bottom line for me is if you want to excuse your child from circle time for that day, you don't need anyone's permission to do so.  You are your child's parent.  You're not my conscience just as I am not Sasha Grey's conscience.





> Look at the example, I gave about the coach being fired for handing out his motivational survey.


As a coach, you are employed by the school and are subject to both employment law AND school district policy.  Volunteers are NOT employed by the school district.  They are volunteers.  Two completely different situations.  


> What he did was not illegal, just politically incorrect at the worse. It upset people it wasn't illegal by any means. It got him fired. Now, how would those people feel if he turned around and read to their kids? Should we dismiss their concerns? I don't think so.  It isn't about Grey reading being legal or not, it is about the school being responsible and respectful of the parents they serve.  Just as the school that fired this coach was.


And now you're compounding the confusion.  If he has been fired from a coaching position, that might disqualify him from being able to volunteer in the school district.  Depends on why he was fired.  If he was fired for abusing his position of authority by promoting an anti-gay agenda... sure.  I don't know the details. 





> Point here is to see that not all parents have the same values or concerns. And that using kids to boost your career by making you more mainstream acceptable is wrong. If she was doing that.  Just as wrong as if this coach does the same thing in the future.


Even if she was just doing a PR stunt, I still don't see the big deal.  Bringing the coach into it, IMO, just weakens your argument.  You are certainly entitled to your opinion, and I can even see that if the majority of parents in the school district object to adult films, a policy might be made regarding suitability of volunteers.  If it's a policy, I might disagree, but that's at least going about it the right way.

Presuming to take a moral stand and suggest that this is wrong for any reason other than you have an opinion is the wrong way to go about it.  What I mean is, your opinion is that she shouldn't be in the school.  Presuming to suggest that this is enough to ban it is silly.  Once again, she has broken no laws, behaved in no way inappropriately while at the school, and I presume submitted to a routine background check.  It's a non-issue in my book.

How about let's focus on the actual sexual predators?


----------



## Steve

crushing said:


> Are you sure you're doing it right?
> 
> :uhyeah:


Hahahah!  That was perfect!


----------



## shihansmurf

punisher73 said:


> I guess my biggest question is how many people on here that are against this are also the same ones that profess to be Christian. If they realize something and turn their back on it and are moving in a more positive manner, aren't we supposed to support that? Or is that only when it is convienant and not something we really have to address?



More so that self-identiying as a Christian is only acceptable when doing so allows one to be a judgemental, self-righteous jackass. The "Christian" lifestyle and choice is only too easy to loose sight of when it causes one to shuck thier responsibility to be forgiving, accepting of those with "questionable" pasts, and differing world views.

It is interesting that so many "Christians" that would object so strenously to having this young lady reading to thier childeren due to "moral concerns" , are the same ones that scream the loudest about P.C. oppression when thier views aren't pushed on children.

It is absurd, intellectualy dishonest, crap. 

Mark


----------



## JohnEdward

Steve

The coach is now an ex-coach, paralleling an ex-pron star. What parents would want him to read to their kids?  Both represent values held by parents. Both have to be respected. You can't say it is ok for the ex-porn star and no to the ex-coach. I would bet the school would have said no to the coach, being "too controversial."  Got to be fair across the board. Schools have to be vigilant in respecting parent's concerns, if any, who they allow their kids contact with.   That's all am saying.


----------



## shihansmurf

Exactly.

Hmm,

Maybe if more intelligent reasoning and non-hysterical handwringing were injected into more of the discussions here, then maybe some of extreme positions would be tamed. After all, mere exposure to an Ex-Porn star is certainly enough to cause those kids that she read to spontaneously degenrate into a life of prostitution, drug use, and sexual abuse. Seems that the influence of parents, educators, and other role-modles familiar with the children in question can be completely undone by having a story read to them by a porn star.

I could be wrong, however, but it seems to me that actively involved parents could ameoloriate any negative influence from a short reading session from a former porn star.

Just a thought,
Mark


----------



## Steve

JohnEdward said:


> Steve
> 
> The coach is now an ex-coach, paralleling an ex-pron star. What parents would want him to read to their kids?  Both represent values held by parents. Both have to be respected. You can't say it is ok for the ex-porn star and no to the ex-coach. I would bet the school would have said no to the coach, being "too controversial."  Got to be fair across the board. Schools have to be vigilant in respecting parent's concerns, if any, who they allow their kids contact with.   That's all am saying.


Thanks, but the key issue here is that the coach is an ex-coach because, from what I gather from the information you posted, he was fired for violating district policy.  Sasha Grey wasn't fired from anything, as far as I know.

Also, didn't catch it, but was he a coach in the same school district?  If not, you're completely off base.  

Unless required by law, what you do in your school district has no bearing over what I do in mine, and there is no point in suggesting that they all have to be "fair across the board."  Talk about an exercise in futility.

As I said before, this is about opinion, and I get that.  If the parents in the school district oppose vehemently to this and district policy is amended, so be it.  That's the right way to go about it, even if I disagree.  My kids' school district does some wacky stuff, but overall, it's not stuff I disagree with strongly enough to rouse the rabble.  

Absent a district policy, I don't see an issue.  Again, it doesn't sound like she was violating any of the district policies. Whereas, an ex-employee fired for cause from his position....  that's a different story entirely.


----------



## Steve

shihansmurf said:


> Exactly.
> 
> Hmm,
> 
> Maybe if more intelligent reasoning and non-hysterical handwringing were injected into more of the discussions here, then maybe some of extreme positions would be tamed. After all, mere exposure to an Ex-Porn star is certainly enough to cause those kids that she read to spontaneously degenrate into a life of prostitution, drug use, and sexual abuse. Seems that the influence of parents, educators, and other role-modles familiar with the children in question can be completely undone by having a story read to them by a porn star.
> 
> I could be wrong, however, but it seems to me that actively involved parents could ameoloriate any negative influence from a short reading session from a former porn star.
> 
> Just a thought,
> Mark


I'm pretty sure that whether they meet an ex-porn star or not, a lot of those kids are going to have sex.  I'd bet that eventually, over 99% of them have sex in one manner or another.  They might not be as good at it as Sasha Grey, but hey.  We can't all be pros.


----------



## MaxiMe

Xue Sheng said:


> Its California what do you expect :uhyeah:
> 
> Xue will now duck and cover


Incoming!!!!:uhyeah:


----------



## shihansmurf

Steve said:


> I'm pretty sure that whether they meet an ex-porn star or not, a lot of those kids are going to have sex. I'd bet that eventually, over 99% of them have sex in one manner or another. They might not be as good at it as Sasha Grey, but hey. We can't all be pros.



Yep. 

I like to think of myself as a talented amateur. LOL!

Mark


----------



## granfire

shihansmurf said:


> Yep.
> 
> I like to think of myself as a talented amateur. LOL!
> 
> Mark



SOOOO not going there.....


----------



## MaxiMe

Steve said:


> I don't know about in California, but anyone who volunteers in the classroom or as a chaperon must agree to a background check. I presume it's something similar in California.



Yup you do.


----------



## Bob Hubbard

I had a comment, but decided I needed to research Ms Grey a bit more fist, err, I mean first.


----------



## granfire

Glossies?


----------



## SuperFLY

Bob Hubbard said:


> I had a comment, but decided I needed to research Ms Grey a bit more fist, err, I mean first.



i tell you what im sure a lot of others did the moment they heard her name.

im not proud.. i did  tbh though its not my thing, shes a pretty girl but all that humiliation, gagging stuff isnt my cup o' tea.

on topic though im sure she doesnt start her readings with 'hi kids, im a porn star, shall i tell you all about it' im sure the kids had no idea who she was. of course until parents find out and start moaning about it.

'mummy, why dont you like ms grey? she tells nice stories'
'shes a porn star dear'
'whats a porn star?'
'.......'

they should ask themselves who's causing a problem here.


----------



## JohnEdward

Steve said:


> I'm pretty sure that whether they meet an ex-porn star or not, a lot of those kids are going to have sex.  I'd bet that eventually, over 99% of them have sex in one manner or another.  They might not be as good at it as Sasha Grey, but hey.  We can't all be pros.



  I haven't seen a porn in many a year. Being involved in this discussion, I watched part of a Grey film. My god, how things have changed.  If that is being good at sex....err... pro... I will stick to the amateurs who are really horrible at it.  That is just my opinion.  I guess what was defined as porn years ago is rated "R"  now.  I wonder how many women think that is what is expected of them in the bedroom?  Call me old fashion, but I will stick to good old fashion romance.  

I can see now where some parents would be concerned not necessarily fanatically religious ones, some who feel porn puts women is a bad light, and what she represents as a porn star.  I can see how that could be upsetting to some parents. I am not saying that is or isn't my view.  Like I have always said the school, knowing her background, parents (if not) should have been notified, giving them an option.


----------



## crushing

Steve said:


> Hahahah! That was perfect!



I thought so when I posted it, but on the way home from work yesterday I heard a story on NPR how gangs are getting involved in sex trafficking including forcing women and girls as young as 12 in to prostitution and that gave me a little different perspective on the hyping up of sex, including such jokes as that.

http://www.npr.org/2011/11/14/142300731/gangs-enter-new-territory-with-sex-trafficking


----------



## punisher73

SuperFLY said:


> on topic though im sure she doesnt start her readings with 'hi kids, im a porn star, shall i tell you all about it' im sure the kids had no idea who she was. of course until parents find out and start moaning about it.
> 
> 'mummy, why dont you like ms grey? she tells nice stories'
> 'shes a porn star dear'
> 'whats a porn star?'
> '.......'
> 
> they should ask themselves who's causing a problem here.



That was my thought.  Those kids aren't going to know who she is other than what the school said that she was an actress.  They won't remember her name in a year or two anyways more than likely, so it really is the parents who are causing such a big stink about it.


----------



## Steve

JohnEdward said:


> I haven't seen a porn in many a year. Being involved in this discussion, I watched part of a Grey film. My god, how things have changed.  If that is being good at sex....err... pro... I will stick to the amateurs who are really horrible at it.  That is just my opinion.  I guess what was defined as porn years ago is rated "R"  now.  I wonder how many women think that is what is expected of them in the bedroom?  Call me old fashion, but I will stick to good old fashion romance.


You're a paragon of human virtue, John.  


> I can see now where some parents would be concerned not necessarily fanatically religious ones, some who feel porn puts women is a bad light, and what she represents as a porn star.  I can see how that could be upsetting to some parents. I am not saying that is or isn't my view.  Like I have always said the school, knowing her background, parents (if not) should have been notified, giving them an option.


Do we know they weren't?  I know at my kids' schools, we always knew when guest speakers were in the classrooms.  Are you presuming that parents weren't notified in advance or do you know for sure that they were not?


----------



## Steve

crushing said:


> I thought so when I posted it, but on the way home from work yesterday I heard a story on NPR how gangs are getting involved in sex trafficking including forcing women and girls as young as 12 in to prostitution and that gave me a little different perspective on the hyping up of sex, including such jokes as that.
> 
> http://www.npr.org/2011/11/14/142300731/gangs-enter-new-territory-with-sex-trafficking


There is a dark side to porn, which is why I specifically mentioned an above board production company.  There are many companies that are completely out in the open, making boatloads of money from mostly men and women who would never admit openly that they watch it.  

But I still contend that sex isn't a big deal.  As I said in another post, just about every person in the world has it at one time or another.  Among consenting adults, there is nothing wrong with it.  Period.  

And when it's not okay, it's not because of sex.  It's because there are minors involved or people are being forced into it or drug addiction is in play... something else. Look at Sandusky.


----------



## Grenadier

The whole thing isn't really much of an issue.  As long as she isn't there talking about her past, and keeping it civil, then it's not so much of an issue, provided that it's kept low-key.  

By the same token, though, if the school allows an ex-mattress actress to read to children claiming that she's simply trying to do some good, then they should not have any problems if, say someone the likes of former KKK Grand Wizard David Duke or Black Panther Quanell X reading to their children either.


----------



## Bob Hubbard

But Gren, Ms. Grey looks to be more comfy than Duke or X to lie on.


----------



## crushing

I mentioned this controversy to my wife and my 7 year old son overheard and exclaimed, "Damn!  Those lucky bastards had Sasha Grey read to them?!?! Uhmmmm....I mean....Mommy, who is Sasha Grey?"

jk


----------



## Empty Hands

Grenadier said:


> By the same token, though, if the school allows an ex-mattress actress to read to children claiming that she's simply trying to do some good, then they should not have any problems if, say someone the likes of former KKK Grand Wizard David Duke or Black Panther Quanell X reading to their children either.



It's deeply disturbing that some people seem to find these three remotely comparable.  Last time I checked, Sasha Grey wasn't promoting hatred, racism, violence and murder.  It's deeply disturbing that some people seem to find having sex for money equivalent.


----------



## Steve

Empty Hands said:


> It's deeply disturbing that some people seem to find these three remotely comparable.  Last time I checked, Sasha Grey wasn't promoting hatred, racism, violence and murder.  It's deeply disturbing that some people seem to find having sex for money equivalent.


In this way, I believe America as a whole has it completely backwards.  Parents will allow their kids to see graphic displays of violence in TV, movies and video games at very young ages, but FREAK OUT if they see an exposed nipple.


----------



## granfire

Steve said:


> In this way, I believe America as a whole has it completely backwards.  Parents will allow their kids to see graphic displays of violence in TV, movies and video games at very young ages, but FREAK OUT if they see an exposed nipple.



goes back a long time...
No harm in burning that witch...but the carnal urges?! NO WAI!!!


----------



## Nomad

granfire said:


> goes back a long time...
> No harm in burning that witch...but the carnal urges?! NO WAI!!!



Reminds me of an old show that joked that "fornication was forbidden... because it might lead to dancing!"


----------



## JohnEdward

Steve said:


> You're a paragon of human virtue, John.


 No just old. Was into the movie for 5 mins, and fell asleep.  And I have never seen golf balls used that way before.


----------



## granfire

JohnEdward said:


> No just old. Was into the movie for 5 mins, and fell asleep.  And I have never seen golf balls used that way before.



forget old....that's more like dead....


----------



## JohnEdward

granfire said:


> forget old....that's more like dead....



maybe, or due to a short attention span? Watching what  appears to be a golf ball, passing back and forth, exercising her sphincter muscle for 5 mins....ZZZZZZZZZZZZ


----------



## JohnEdward

Steve said:


> You're a paragon of human virtue, John.
> Do we know they weren't?  I know at my kids' schools, we always knew when guest speakers were in the classrooms.  Are you presuming that parents weren't notified in advance or do you know for sure that they were not?



If they were you wouldn't have parents complaining after the fact. They could have been, like I said before, Ms. Grey may have been announced as a movie star. But the school knew of her ex-career, and they know the controversy an ex-Adult Film star can create with some parents. But, it seems school over looked that, and that isn't professional. They should have informed parents, giving the parents the choice to have their kid opt out.  Now she is an ex-Adult film star, currently a movie star. Now the school will have say an ex-drug dealer or a ex-gang member who is a community leader at the school and say read to kids, and the school will notify parents of that person's past involvement in drugs and gangs, and their current profession. That is pretty common, they should have been just as professional with Ms. Grey.    Therefore, when she twitted that she was reading to kids, the news picking it up would not have not reported parents being up set.  There would not be such a controversy.  It is about the school being consistently responsible. 

Now, did you see that link I posted about the Coach who gave a politically incorrect motivational survey to his high school players and was fired instantly when discovered. Done because it was politically incorrect. The coach was there for years, no controversial career background. As an ex-coach how many schools would say no to him if he wanted to read to a group of kids. His is qualified. How many parents would be upset if he read to their kids?  You have to be fair across the board. You can't say yes, to a movie star with a controversial past, and no to a coach with a controversial past.  You have can't be selective in your value judgements. Favoring one and opposing another based on any specific value system. As a school, you have to let parents know properly who is interacting with their kids so they have an option. Most schools have security and Federal background checks on visitors and staff, but they can't let the parents know who from the outside of the school is reading to their kids.  Again, as a parent you don't want to find out  from the news, as it headlines Porn Star reads to kids. Or Movie star reads to kids and you look her up because you are not that familiar with her. Or you hear it from another source.  Then people start talking and say, "you let a porn star near your kid in school!"  That makes you look like an irresponsible parent, you clash with other parents as they will not let your kid play with their kid as it is a bad influence. Parents....right?    It is irresponsible or the school to not properly notify the parents to give them an option. That is my angst with this issue.


----------



## Chris Parker

JohnEdward said:


> Now, did you see that link I posted about the Coach who gave a politically incorrect motivational survey to his high school players and was fired instantly when discovered. *Done because it was politically incorrect. *The coach was there for years, no controversial career background. As an ex-coach how many schools would say no to him if he wanted to read to a group of kids. His is qualified. How many parents would be upset if he read to their kids?  You have to be fair across the board. You can't say yes, to a movie star with a controversial past, and no to a coach with a controversial past.  You have can't be selective in your value judgements. Favoring one and opposing another based on any specific value system. As a school, you have to let parents know properly who is interacting with their kids so they have an option. Most schools have security and Federal background checks on visitors and staff, but they can't let the parents know who from the outside of the school is reading to their kids.  Again, as a parent you don't want to find out  from the news, as it headlines Porn Star reads to kids. Or Movie star reads to kids and you look her up because you are not that familiar with her. Or you hear it from another source.  Then people start talking and say, "you let a porn star near your kid in school!"  That makes you look like an irresponsible parent, you clash with other parents as they will not let your kid play with their kid as it is a bad influence. Parents....right?    It is irresponsible or the school to not properly notify the parents to give them an option. That is my angst with this issue.



I'm sorry, what?!?! Did you read what that "survey" you reference was asking? That was outright bullying, harassment, and sexual intimidation, not "politically incorrect". Seriously, if you think the issue was that the survey was asking the students' who had "hurt feelings" (in other words, were emotionally vulnerable at best, the victims of bullying and harassment already more likely) to identify themselves as "queer" or more was that is was "politically incorrect", then you have absolutely no idea what the actual issue was there at all.

I'm going to put here what the article says, and hopefully the filters will let most of it through....



> The survey, under a list of reasons for hurt feelings, includes such choices as I am a queer, I am a *****, I am a little *****, and I have woman like hormones. It asks for the name of the little sissy filing report and his girly-man signature, plus the real-man signature of the person accused of causing hurt feelings.



Honestly, what gets me most in that instance is this:



> Lynch, however, will *retain his guidance counselor position *at Buffalo High School under administrative supervision.



http://www.advocate.com/News/Daily_News/2011/11/11/Antigay_Survey_a_Fumble_for_Prep_Football_Coach/

Seriously, give me Sasha Grey and Belladonna (ha, if you think Sasha's work was extreme....) reading to pre-school kids any day of the week rather than have someone like that in a position of authority and guidance for growing and maturing children.

EDIT: Honestly John, this combined with your entire take on the "Women Boxers in Mini Skirts" thread don't show you in a very good light. You seem to have very little actual empathy or understanding when it comes to such issues. Might be something to look at.


----------



## Tez3

Chris Parker said:


> I'm sorry, what?!?! Did you read what that "survey" you reference was asking? That was outright bullying, harassment, and sexual intimidation, not "politically incorrect". Seriously, if you think the issue was that the survey was asking the students' who had "hurt feelings" (in other words, were emotionally vulnerable at best, the victims of bullying and harassment already more likely) to identify themselves as "queer" or more was that is was "politically incorrect", then you have absolutely no idea what the actual issue was there at all.
> 
> I'm going to put here what the article says, and hopefully the filters will let most of it through....
> 
> 
> 
> Honestly, what gets me most in that instance is this:
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.advocate.com/News/Daily_News/2011/11/11/Antigay_Survey_a_Fumble_for_Prep_Football_Coach/
> 
> Seriously, give me Sasha Grey and Belladonna (ha, if you think Sasha's work was extreme....) reading to pre-school kids any day of the week rather than have someone like that in a position of authority and guidance for growing and maturing children.
> 
> EDIT: Honestly John, this combined with your entire take on the "Women Boxers in Mini Skirts" thread don't show you in a very good light. You seem to have very little actual empathy or understanding when it comes to such issues. Might be something to look at.




Now that's a person I'd want nowhere near my children. It's a horrendous way to behave. He shouldn't have anything to do with young people ever again.


----------



## Bob Hubbard

Just as an aside, my son is ok with having Ms Grey read to him.  I asked. He knows what she did.
Before anyone asks, he's 21 tomorrow.


----------



## JohnEdward

> COMPTON, Calif. -- Officials of a California school system plan to meet with the agent who schedules celebrity guests to read to children after some parents complained that having a former adult film star as a participant was inappropriate.
> A Compton Unified School District statement says the outside talent coordinator listed Sasha Grey as an actress who had appeared in the HBO show "Entourage" when she was proposed as a participant in the Guest Reading Program at Emerson Elementary School this month. Grey's previous experience in adult films wasn't mentioned.
> The district says it will review the selection process with the coordinator to avoid any potentially controversial readers in the future.http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/15/sasha-grey-ex-porn-stars-_n_1095783.html





> The visit was arranged by an outside talent coordinator, the Compton Unified School District said in a statement.
> 
> "The outside talent coordinator listed the actress as a mainstream actress from the HBO show 'Entourage,' " said the statement, which refrained from mentioning Gray by her name.  "Although we have worked with this talent coordinator for several years, we will meet to review the participant selection process." http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lan...tress-sasha-grey-defends-classroom-visit.html






> The school initially denied that Grey was ever at the school. TMZ, however, published a series of photos that appear to contradict that claim, showing an animated Grey reading to a group of young children in a school classroom.
> Officials from the Compton Unified School District told TMZ that a talent coordinator not directly affiliated with the school said Grey was best known for "Entourage" and did not mention her adult-movie past -- although Grey's character on the series is a porn star and a fictionalized version of her real-life persona.
> 
> Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/nation...sha_grey_HX92O9nPWDZ9vOKYaBY9iK#ixzz1dsV08UOA





> Who knew porn stars could read?
> ​However, the school district's denial of Sasha Grey's participation in the program "Read Across America Compton" came a little too late, as Grey Tweeted about reading to the sweet first and third grade Emerson Elementary School students.
> http://www.39online.com/newsfix/kiah-newsfix-p-is-for-porn-story,0,7793436.story




From what is found in the news reports, it looks pretty clear my assumptions are spot on. THIS IS MY OPINION AND WHY-open to other opinions:

1. The school District knew who Grey was. Of course, they did they do background checks. 

2. It was irresponsible not notifying parents Grey was reading to their kids. They kept it on the down low. Then deigned it. Knowing parents would be upset parents. - hell the knew her background was controversial, my god it is an elementary school - no a college campus. 

3. Publicity stunt to bolster Grey's main steam movie career, I say yes. In my opinion Grey aware of the controversy she created and is still creating, thus exploiting kids to bolster her career,  and that points to her character as a mainstream actor. 

3.a.Grey defends her actions, in short, in her defense she stated that she values education and will keep reading to kids. She is intelligent, not sure of her school educational background. She started porn shortly after she turned 18, I find no mention of college credentials or college attendance. She is a "B" list film start, and as a results of her critically porn acting and many porn awards and accolades, and making the difficult movie to main stream acting indicates her ambition and drive for fame. BTW, she is a Hollywood actress, getting attention is the name of the game. And being fully aware of her own background, and what she was asked to do, knowing her background is controversial for some, points to her knowing her presences reading to kids would cause controversy. Thus, exploiting the kids, for the opportunity to get publicity.  But, she could be just simply full of herself or clueless, or both, and think no issue would be made of it.  I personally think it is a combination of all. 

3.b. She may not have realized the controversy she would create, but it is highly unlikely given her background and being acclaimed by critics in the Adult film industry as an "intelligent actresses."  Though am not sure if that is an oxymoron.  

3.c. Her agent set it up. Thus, she was clueless to the controversy it would create.  See 3.a and 3.b. Highly doubtful. 

I will say if Ms. Grey wanted publicity she should have done something else, do what many stars are doing to get publicity, Say something horrible happened in their lives and write about it, be seen with someone else controversial or join the Protesters. Join the church of Scientology. Do something else over the top, kiss her brother, drink blood, adopt a bunch of an African or Southern Pacific children and have the nannies raise, like Jolie. God knows she has surpassed Madonna.  But don't use kids.  My last statement does sound conflicting....hmmm....maybe not adopt kids out of the country. 

I really don't know Ms. Grey's intentions or what she was thinking when agreeing to read to the school kids. Maybe it wasn't a good idea and some forethought should have been applied by both Ms. Grey and the School.


----------



## Chris Parker

JohnEdward said:


> From what is found in the news reports, it looks pretty clear my assumptions are spot on. THIS IS MY OPINION AND WHY-open to other opinions:



Honestly, I think you are reading things that support your assumptions, as it's not really supported in the quotes you provided there.



JohnEdward said:


> 1. The school District knew who Grey was. Of course, they did they do background checks.



The quotes you provided indicate that the school themselves was not doing any checks themselves, but relying on an outside talent agent to provide the guest readers. The safer assumption is that they relied on the agent to do the background check. So, no.



JohnEdward said:


> 2. It was irresponsible not notifying parents Grey was reading to their kids. They kept it on the down low. Then deigned it. Knowing parents would be upset parents. - hell the knew her background was controversial, my god it is an elementary school - no a college campus.



The way it reads is that the parents were notified as to the fact that an actress from the HBO show Entourage would be reading to the school. Again, no support of them knowing the adult entertainment background of Sasha.



JohnEdward said:


> 3. Publicity stunt to bolster Grey's main steam movie career, I say yes. In my opinion Grey aware of the controversy she created and is still creating, thus exploiting kids to bolster her career,  and that points to her character as a mainstream actor.



"Exploiting"? Really? How much publicity did Sasha do for this? She tweeted about an experience that she found rewarding, a small event, really, not really any publicity at all. And frankly, "expoiting" kids by giving time and energy freely as a charitable donation, furthering the education and promotion of education amongst the youth of the nation... not a bad form of "exploitation", really. 

But can you let me know, does Sasha have a film coming out? Cause, really, that's about the only evidence that could support such a take on this (similar to Paris Hilton's infamous tape being "leaked" just when her new show was about to start, and she was doing the publicity rounds on it...).



JohnEdward said:


> 3.a.Grey defends her actions, in short, in her defense she stated that she values education and will keep reading to kids. She is intelligent, not sure of her school educational background. She started porn shortly after she turned 18, I find no mention of college credentials or college attendance. She is a "B" list film start, and as a results of her critically porn acting and many porn awards and accolades, and making the difficult movie to main stream acting indicates her ambition and drive for fame. BTW, she is a Hollywood actress, getting attention is the name of the game. And being fully aware of her own background, and what she was asked to do, knowing her background is controversial for some, points to her knowing her presences reading to kids would cause controversy. Thus, exploiting the kids, for the opportunity to get publicity.  But, she could be just simply full of herself or clueless, or both, and think no issue would be made of it.  I personally think it is a combination of all.



This is completely flawed from the get-go, as it's based on the assumptions that frankly aren't supported in the evidence you yourself have provided. I'm also a little concerned about the incredibly broad sweeping (and occasionally rather inaccurate) statements you have been making here.



JohnEdward said:


> 3.b. She may not have realized the controversy she would create, but it is highly unlikely given her background and being acclaimed by critics in the Adult film industry as an "intelligent actresses."  Though am not sure if that is an oxymoron.



Again, a rather sweeping and inaccurate statement. Once more, look back to Bob's post about some of the accolades of a number of adult entertainment professionals, such as Asia Carrera (member of Mensa), as well as some that he didn't mention, whose other careers have included being a teacher themselves (not at the same time, I'd hasten to add).



JohnEdward said:


> 3.c. Her agent set it up. She was clues to the controversy it would create.  See 3.a and 3.b. Highly doubtful.



Sasha's agent would have certainly been involved, yeah. The talent agent that was gaining the volunteers for the reading promotion program, though, is a different person. And, honestly, I'd say that Sasha was booked as a mainstream actress, promoted as such, and was there in that role, so in that role controversy wasn't considered necessarily a factor, or at least that would have been hoped. Again, Sasha is an EX-adult star, not a current one.



JohnEdward said:


> I will say if Ms. Grey wanted publicity she should have done something else, do what many stars are doing to get publicity, Say something horrible happened in their lives and write about it, be seen with someone else controversial or join the Protesters. Join the church of Scientology. Do something else over the top, kiss her brother, drink blood, adopt an African or Southern Pacific child, like Jolie. God knows she has surpassed Madonna.  But don't use kids.



Those events with Angelina are rather sensationalised... for instance, have you seen the "kiss" between her and her brother? At an awards night, closed lips, it just lasted a bit longer than a peck. Hardly the "passionate make out" that you suggested earlier. And John? Your prejudices are showing. Again.

Once more, though, I'm basing this on the presented evidence, and my impression of Sasha when I met her briefly. If we're going to be guessing at her motivations, that is.


----------



## Steve

JohnEdward said:


> If they were you wouldn't have parents complaining after the fact.


This is not necessarily true.   





> They could have been, like I said before, Ms. Grey may have been announced as a movie star. But the school knew of her ex-career, and they know the controversy an ex-Adult Film star can create with some parents. But, it seems school over looked that, and that isn't professional.


Why would they bring it up?  It seems so strange to me that you believe they should.  "Sasha Grey, former porn-star, is going to be at the school.  Dads, now's your chance to get a picture and an autograph."  They wouldn't say, "Harrison Ford, former carpenter."  It just doesn't make sense to me.  In this case, given that she's no longer in porn movies, it's just not an issue.

And if she has a kid in the school, even were she actively making adult movies, I wouldn't have a problem with it if she were volunteering as a parent.  





> They should have informed parents, giving the parents the choice to have their kid opt out.


Again, you're presuming they didn't.  If parents aren't curious enough to know who this woman is, that's not the school district's issue.  





> Now she is an ex-Adult film star, currently a movie star. Now the school will have say an ex-drug dealer or a ex-gang member who is a community leader at the school and say read to kids, and the school will notify parents of that person's past involvement in drugs and gangs, and their current profession.


In these cases, informing the parents about the past gang and drug involvement would ONLY be acceptable to me if it were integral to the reason they were at the school.  Typically, the entire reason a former gang member speaks at a school is to warn kids about the dangers of being in gangs or of doing drugs.  

This seems self apparent to me.  I would be more shocked and outraged if the school district DID make a big deal about the former adult movies that she made, unless she were there to teach kids about the dangers of making adult films.  Honestly, THAT might get me a little amped up, as that's a message my 3rd grader doesn't need to hear. 





> That is pretty common, they should have been just as professional with Ms. Grey.    Therefore, when she twitted that she was reading to kids, the news picking it up would not have not reported parents being up set.  There would not be such a controversy.  It is about the school being consistently responsible.


At this point, if you don't see the easy, clear, common sense distinction between the two, I'm not sure I know how to explain it.  





> Now, did you see that link I posted about the Coach who gave a politically incorrect motivational survey to his high school players and was fired instantly when discovered. Done because it was politically incorrect.  The coach was there for years, no controversial career background. As an ex-coach how many schools would say no to him if he wanted to read to a group of kids. His is qualified. How many parents would be upset if he read to their kids?  You have to be fair across the board. You can't say yes, to a movie star with a controversial past, and no to a coach with a controversial past.  You have can't be selective in your value judgements. Favoring one and opposing another based on any specific value system. As a school, you have to let parents know properly who is interacting with their kids so they have an option. Most schools have security and Federal background checks on visitors and staff, but they can't let the parents know who from the outside of the school is reading to their kids.  Again, as a parent you don't want to find out  from the news, as it headlines Porn Star reads to kids. Or Movie star reads to kids and you look her up because you are not that familiar with her. Or you hear it from another source.  Then people start talking and say, "you let a porn star near your kid in school!"  That makes you look like an irresponsible parent, you clash with other parents as they will not let your kid play with their kid as it is a bad influence. Parents....right?    It is irresponsible or the school to not properly notify the parents to give them an option. That is my angst with this issue.


There is a difference between a coach whose controversial past involves kids in the schools and a person who made a living doing something legal and from which she left voluntarily, not removed.  In other words, in Grey's case, the controversy is unrelated to kids, schools or conditions of her employment.  In the Coach's case, the controversy is ALL about kids, school and the conditions of his employment.  

Couple of other things.  First, I don't give a **** what anyone else thinks of my parenting.  I really don't.  I have three kids.  They're weird and I love it.  The two oldest are in high school getting very good grades.  Both are in the Marine Corps JROTC program at school.  Both are funny, respectful and happy.  The three year old is hilarious, curious and active.  I couldn't ask for more.  They probably play too many video games for some and watch too much TV for others, but you know what?  Doesn't matter to me at all.  As long as their homework is done and they get some sunshine when it's out here in Seattle (which is twice a year, usually).  You're welcome to think I'm an irresponsible parent.  None of my business, but don't think for a minute I give a rip.  

Second, there's a difference... a big difference between a component striving to be fair and someone using it as a weapon.  You don't HAVE to be fair.  No one does.  It's impossible.  While we can try to be fair, it's just not going to happen.  No two situations are exactly alike, and in situations like this, it's a cop out.  In this situation, comparing to completely unrelated situations, the coach and the ex-porn star, and saying that they're equal is in itself unfair.  It's ridiculous.  They're not the same in any way.


----------



## JohnEdward

Steve am certainly not judging you as a parent, and the choices you make, I am support of that. Again....the school should have notified the parents. Clearly it didn't and initially deigned she was there. That is negligence ,incompetency, confidence and lack of trust that over rides the schools irresponsibility. The school like I said was fully aware of her background in the porn industry, they did a routine background check for god's sake. If not that really shows they didn't do what the law requires, and that is again negligence and shakes parents trust and confidence. If it doesn't upset a parent, it should. 

Parents should have a choice to opt out of the reading, and it not be dictated by the school. Some parents may object over the politically incorrect coach, while not objecting over Ms. Grey. And visa versa. The school knows this, it is part of their job. A big part of their job.  

If you don't think parents have a choice, and have your kids subjected to or have contact with people that don't share, reflect, or are in opposition to your values you what your kid to have and those you uphold, then I think you will be conflicting with 99.9999999% of parents because you are taking away their right to raise their kid as they see fit, which involves their parental values, and choices. And not those impose upon them what the school wants -as an institution. Hello, where's Orwell? 

Let's not confuse freedom and rights of parents just because we don't agree with their values or value system for their kids. It is about choice. Let's keep that in perspective. I don't want the school system to have that power or choice over the parent. The school must properly inform the parents and providing them an option.  That is all.


----------



## Chris Parker

I really get the feeling that the denial (not the "deigning", rather a different word there....) was more of a knee-jerk reaction after the fact when they realised the details of Sasha's past work. Again, there is no support that parents were not informed of anything other than the previous work of Sasha's that the school seems to have been rather ignorant of as well.


----------



## Steve

JohnEdward said:


> Steve am certainly not judging you as a parent, and the choices you make, I am support of that. Again....the school should have notified the parents. Clearly it didn't


Didn't it?  Once again, based on my experience, I find that highly unlikely. Also to be clear, I wasn't accusing you of judging me as a parent.  What I was getting at is that what OTHER people think of my parenting is NEVER a motivator or consideration for decisions I make about my kids.  In other words, in issues like this, where I'm making a decision about my kids, what other people think isn't a legitimate consideration.  It's irrelevant.  In fact, I'd say that making parenting decisions based on what you think OTHER people will think of you is how we get into stupid situations like this in the first place.  "Oh, the Jones and the Franklins are outraged about this.  I should be too!"   





> Parents should have a choice to opt out of the reading, and it not be dictated by the school. Some parents may object over the politically incorrect coach, while not objecting over Ms. Grey. And visa versa. The school knows this, it is part of their job. A big part of their job.


Of course they should.  And they do.  Every single day, the parents have the option of excusing their children from attendance.  While there are truancy laws and if this is abused the kids' grades might be affected, I have to do no more than make a 1 minute phone call to my school to excuse my kids for the day.  I would be very surprised to learn that there is a school district anywhere in the USA that operates otherwise. 





> If you don't think parents have a choice, and have your kids subjected to or have contact with people that don't share, reflect, or are in opposition to your values you what your kid to have and those you uphold, then I think you will be conflicting with 99.9999999% of parents because you are taking away their right to raise their kid as they see fit, which involves their parental values, and choices. And not those impose upon them what the school wants -as an institution. Hello, where's Orwell?


Well, here's the thing.  This is my personal opinion, but I think that most of the value of school is exposing kids to people who don't share, reflect or are opposed to my values.  In my opinion, that's called education.  Challenging beliefs, pushing kids to think critically and exposing them to diverse opinions and values is what education is all about.  My job as a parent is to provide CONTEXT and to help my kids sort through some of the more difficult things they encounter.  I also believe that there are age/maturity level appropriate issues.  You don't drop terrorism or genocide on a 3rd grader, for example.  And you don't drop porn on them, either, which is why I said I'd be more upset if the school arranged a porn awareness presentation along the lines of the anti-drug/anti-gang ones you referred to.  





> Let's not confuse freedom and rights of parents just because we don't agree with their values or value system for their kids. It is about choice. Let's keep that in perspective. I don't want the school system to have that power or choice over the parent. The school must properly inform the parents and providing them an option.  That is all.


And parents do have choices.  I'm not sure I undersatnd what choices you believe were taken away.  As a parent with two kids in the schools and one on her way, I can tell you that I have a great deal of influence within the school district, if I go about things the correct way.  I said much earlier that there is a way to get things done and influence district policy.


----------



## Tez3

I can't help thinking that where before the children that were read to by this women wouldn't have thought much of it beyond, 'it was a good story' or 'that was boring' the usual things kids think about now they are confused by all the fuss that's been kicked up about her reading and when kids are confused they  ask questions I'm sure some parents don't want to answer. 'Mummy, what's porn? comes to mind. 
The questions for parents to ask are whether anything was said or read to the children that was to do with porn, was offensive or otherwise not age appropriate. If not I see little to be fussed about. I would question though whether employing a 'talent agency' was a good way to spend school money though. Probably be better to have a rota for parents to come in and read. The cult of the celebrity is going to far.


----------



## CanuckMA

Likely the school informed the parents that Sasha Grey, a cast member of _Entourage_, will be reading to the kids. It does not take a parent with very powerful Google-fu to find out who she is.


----------



## Bob Hubbard

She tweets a lot of stuff. 
So controversial, so attention seeking, so craving publicity.
https://twitter.com/#!/sashagrey
/sarcasm


----------



## Tez3

Bob Hubbard said:


> She tweets a lot of stuff.
> So controversial, so attention seeking, so craving publicity.
> https://twitter.com/#!/sashagrey
> /sarcasm




The greatest danger reading that lot is falling asleep!

If this had been a male porn star would the outcry be the same?


----------



## crushing

Tez3 said:


> The greatest danger reading that lot is falling asleep!
> 
> If this had been a male porn star would the outcry be the same?



No.  I think the outcry would have been even louder.


----------



## JohnEdward

Steve said:


> I have a great deal of influence within the school district, if I go about things the correct way.  I said much earlier that there is a way to get things done and influence district policy.



Agreed, that is the way it should be. But here we have a school that in the news reports failed to let parents know, and handled the situation completely incompetently, they knew she was a controversial public figure for many parents, not just extreme conservative right winger bible thumpers - whether you agree with them or not they have a right not to have Ms. Grey read to their kids it that is what they wish. I am not saying Ms. Grey should have never been there reading. It is the way _the school_ was irresponsible etc. mishandling of the situation.  For example, if I was Jewish, I sure in hell wouldn't want Mel Gibson reading to my kid.  Or if I was an abused wife, or worked helping abused women, I wouldn't want Mr. Gibson reading to my kids.   I would be furious with the school if they did the same thing in Ms.Grey's case.  If I wasn't Jewish, or believed Mel's abusive behavior didn't effect me or my kid, I wouldn't possibly be upset how the school handled the affair. Or Mr. Gibson reading to my kids. But _the school_ should have done it's job properly, and it didn't. Otherwise, there wouldn't be news coverage of parents making a "stink."  Which in turn gives Ms. Grey into a possible opportunist, as would it be for any actor at the same stage of their career; take advantage of the publicity.

The fact is more people now know who she is, is aware of her mainstream and porn work, more people probably are following her Tweets, clearly a publicity tool used my many movies stars, i.e. the Ashton Kutcher tweeting about the Penn State case. He is now on 2 1/2 men replacing Sheen, I wonder what the ratings are lately...?


----------



## granfire

Tez3 said:


> I can't help thinking that where before the children that were read to by this women wouldn't have thought much of it beyond, 'it was a good story' or 'that was boring' the usual things kids think about now they are confused by all the fuss that's been kicked up about her reading and when kids are confused they  ask questions I'm sure some parents don't want to answer. 'Mummy, what's porn? comes to mind.
> The questions for parents to ask are whether anything was said or read to the children that was to do with porn, was offensive or otherwise not age appropriate. If not I see little to be fussed about. I would question though whether employing a 'talent agency' was a good way to spend school money though. Probably be better to have a rota for parents to come in and read. The cult of the celebrity is going to far.



They probably were considering that she's pretty and was nice...likely over the story.

the biggest problem really i that the age group she encountered ought not have 1st hand knowledge of the carnal urges, real or imagined.
So it all boils down to the parents 'knowing' her. And frankly, I find that funny.
I would have known who she was if it wasn't for the 'pure' minds pointing out her previous genre of acting.
So that leaves the question: How come those parents know?
And I think the answer is clear. :lfao: 

I think parents need to be more involved in education, but I also see were it might not be a positive thing for parents to come to school.
After all, ever seen a kid behaving reasonably well but then the parents walk through the door and all hell breaks lose?
My dad used to blame the parents for that, but it seems to me it's the interaction and not bad parenting, but certainly a cause for disturbance in school...


----------



## Chris Parker

crushing said:


> No.  I think the outcry would have been even louder.



Why do you think that?



JohnEdward said:


> Agreed, that is the way it should be. But here we have a school that in the news reports failed to let parents know, and handled the situation completely incompetently, they knew she was a controversial public figure for many parents, not just extreme conservative right winger bible thumpers - whether you agree with them or not they have a right not to have Ms. Grey read to their kids it that is what they wish. I am not saying Ms. Grey should have never been there reading. It is the way _the school_ was irresponsible etc. mishandling of the situation.  For example, if I was Jewish, I sure in hell wouldn't want Mel Gibson reading to my kid.  Or if I was an abused wife, or worked helping abused women, I wouldn't want Mr. Gibson reading to my kids.   I would be furious with the school if they did the same thing in Ms.Grey's case.  If I wasn't Jewish, or believed Mel's abusive behavior didn't effect me or my kid, I wouldn't possibly be upset how the school handled the affair. Or Mr. Gibson reading to my kids. But _the school_ should have done it's job properly, and it didn't. Otherwise, there wouldn't be news coverage of parents making a stink.  Which in turn gives Ms. Grey into a possible opportunist, or any actor at the same stage of their career.



Okay, I know you don't read my posts, John, but to be frank none of this is actually supported by any of the evidence. There is no evidence that the parents were not informed that Sasha Grey would be the "special guest reader", just that her previous employment was not mentioned. And there is no indication that the school knew either, as Sasha was brought to them by an outside agent, presumably one that the school trusted to check the background of the guests. I really think that the school was completely blindsided by this as well, hence the initial denial.

What evidence do you have that the school didn't inform the parents of Sasha being there? Not who Sasha is, but that she was the person coming in to read to the kids? 

Oh, and if anyone wants to pose that question to John, as he won't read this, that may get some answer as well.


----------



## Steve

Tez3 said:


> I can't help thinking that where before the children that were read to by this women wouldn't have thought much of it beyond, 'it was a good story' or 'that was boring' the usual things kids think about now they are confused by all the fuss that's been kicked up about her reading and when kids are confused they  ask questions I'm sure some parents don't want to answer. 'Mummy, what's porn? comes to mind.
> The questions for parents to ask are whether anything was said or read to the children that was to do with porn, was offensive or otherwise not age appropriate. If not I see little to be fussed about. I would question though whether employing a 'talent agency' was a good way to spend school money though. Probably be better to have a rota for parents to come in and read. The cult of the celebrity is going to far.


Tez, I wouldn't think that the school district paid anything for this.  I'm sure that this is volunteer work for the celebrities for PR purposes.  Get some face time in the news and such.


----------



## crushing

Chris Parker said:


> Why do you think that?



Mostly my own gut feeling.  Earlier in this thread there was a list of adult film stars that have made a successful transition (to one degree or another) to more mainstream entertainment.  That list was all women.  Maybe the list specifically looked at women?  I don't know.  Anyway, the only male porn start I can think of that has done much mainstream stuff is Ron Jeremy pretty much doing cameos as himself and always as some sort of gag or joke.


----------



## JohnEdward

Bob Hubbard said:


> She tweets a lot of stuff.
> So controversial, so attention seeking, so craving publicity.
> https://twitter.com/#!/sashagrey
> /sarcasm



Bob, did you read one of the news reports I posted that said, referring to Ms. Grey, " I didn't even know porn stars could read."  So if she is tweeting allot of stuff.....WOW. 

Kidding aside.  I know you disagree with my opinion she is doing it for the publicist. I just see too many indications in the news reports leaning to her doing it as a publicity stunt. I am not saying she isn't doing what other actors wouldn't do. I just think if that was the case then she needs to rethink her publicity angle. And reflects her character, which is not better or worse than other stars exploiting kids for attention. At least she didn't adopt kids from Darfur, like some entertainers did. Which also reflects on their character.  That would have been my personal contention if I was a parent at that school. Not that she was an ex-porn star......who can juggle golf balls in ways I couldn't think possible.    But I would also be understanding and respectful of parents who felt Ms. Grey being a porn star reading to their kids was inappropriate.


----------



## granfire

crushing said:


> Mostly my own gut feeling.  Earlier in this thread there was a list of adult film stars that have made a successful transition (to one degree or another) to more mainstream entertainment.  That list was all women.  Maybe the list specifically looked at women?  I don't know.  Anyway, the only male porn start I can think of that has done much mainstream stuff is Ron Jeremy pretty much doing cameos as himself and always as some sort of gag or joke.



is anybody even looking at the guy?
(and come on...if he had not done porn, he'd still be more of a joke...the way he looks? certainly not leading man!)


----------



## JohnEdward

granfire said:


> So it all boils down to the parents 'knowing' her. And frankly, I find that funny.
> I would have known who she was if it wasn't for the 'pure' minds pointing out her previous genre of acting.
> So that leaves the question: How come those parents know?
> And I think the answer is clear. :lfao:



Well there is no better grapevine than that of an elementary school parents and kids (older siblings) with the power of Facebook and Tweeter. Ms. Grey did Tweet it. And I am sure someone leaked the story to the press, i.e. her agent....?


----------



## Chris Parker

Steve said:


> Tez, I wouldn't think that the school district paid anything for this. I'm sure that this is volunteer work for the celebrities for PR purposes. Get some face time in the news and such.



I'm not so sure of the "face time" motivation here, though, Steve. I think with Sasha it was far more genuinely about her wanting to do it for the kids, having press there wouldn't help that cause, and the way this came out was a gossip site watching Sasha's twitter account. I mean, the initial story in the OP here has the parents reacting well after the fact, possibly only being aware of the reality when asked about it by the news media.



crushing said:


> Mostly my own gut feeling. Earlier in this thread there was a list of adult film stars that have made a successful transition (to one degree or another) to more mainstream entertainment. That list was all women. Maybe the list specifically looked at women? I don't know. Anyway, the only male porn start I can think of that has done much mainstream stuff is Ron Jeremy pretty much doing cameos as himself and always as some sort of gag or joke.



Honestly, that's because women are the focus, and in a very real way, controlling and most valued part of the industry. Many of the women, particularly at the higher end of the industry, are in control of most aspects of their career. They can say who they will work with, what they will and won't do, make their own rules, and often move into production and directing. It can be a very real career path when done properly. Yes, there is also the highly negative side as well, but that's another case study. The intelligent ones tend to go more for the former path.

In terms of guys, they get paid less, have less control over who they work with, and so on. Very few have the "staying power" to generate a real career the way the women can, and that will reflect on which side of the gender division the greater number of career-driven people will be on. 

Additionally, as Granfire suggests, the women are more "high visibility", which lends itself to a higher chance of using that background to move into mainstream work (again, Sasha is far from the first), whereas the guys would need to start from the bottom again (my, there's a lot of double entendres that just happen to come up when you least expect them, huh?). This lack of visibility would lessen the amount of outcry, really. I mean, if there was someone like Mike Horner was doing the reading, I doubt many would recognise him, or that there would be anyone watching his twitter to reveal it in the first place. And Mike was a lot more prolific, with a much longer career than Sasha...


----------



## Steve

JohnEdward said:


> Agreed, that is the way it should be. But here we have a school that in the news reports failed to let parents know, and handled the situation completely incompetently, they knew she was a controversial public figure for many parents, not just extreme conservative right winger bible thumpers - whether you agree with them or not they have a right not to have Ms. Grey read to their kids it that is what they wish. I am not saying Ms. Grey should have never been there reading. It is the way _the school_ was irresponsible etc. mishandling of the situation.  For example, if I was Jewish, I sure in hell wouldn't want Mel Gibson reading to my kid.  Or if I was an abused wife, or worked helping abused women, I wouldn't want Mr. Gibson reading to my kids.   I would be furious with the school if they did the same thing in Ms.Grey's case.  If I wasn't Jewish, or believed Mel's abusive behavior didn't effect me or my kid, I wouldn't possibly be upset how the school handled the affair. Or Mr. Gibson reading to my kids. But _the school_ should have done it's job properly, and it didn't. Otherwise, there wouldn't be news coverage of parents making a "stink."  Which in turn gives Ms. Grey into a possible opportunist, as would it be for any actor at the same stage of their career; take advantage of the publicity.
> 
> The fact is more people now know who she is, is aware of her mainstream and porn work, more people probably are following her Tweets, clearly a publicity tool used my many movies stars, i.e. the Ashton Kutcher tweeting about the Penn State case. He is now on 2 1/2 men replacing Sheen, I wonder what the ratings are lately...?


I disagree with just about every assertion you make.  The school district did inform the parents, in my estimation.  They did exactly what I would have expected.  I don't think they mishandled anything.  

Mel Gibson, for what it's worth, would probably not pass a routine background check.  But if, as a parent, the schools said, "Hey, Mel Gibson is going to be in the classroom on 11/16," it would be my prerogative to excuse my child from class that day.  Just the same as in this situation.  You're entire argument centers around the, IMO, mistaken belief that parents were deceived and had no influence.  I disagree completely.


----------



## JohnEdward

Steve said:


> I disagree with just about every assertion you make.  The school district did inform the parents, in my estimation.  They did exactly what I would have expected.  I don't think they mishandled anything.
> 
> Mel Gibson, for what it's worth, would probably not pass a routine background check.  But if, as a parent, the schools said, "Hey, Mel Gibson is going to be in the classroom on 11/16," it would be my prerogative to excuse my child from class that day.  Just the same as in this situation.  You're entire argument centers around the, IMO, mistaken belief that parents were deceived and had no influence.  I disagree completely.



Well I could be wrong. Let's find some facts that prove me wrong. I fully support that. I didn't find anything that refuted the news reports implying the parents where not contacted,  but I didn't dig too deep, I went with the news reports from a web search. Maybe we can contact a parent from the school and ask, or find other reports that state the parents where or where not contacted first by the school?


----------



## Steve

You don't think a note went out to the parents informing them that Sasha Grey was going to read to the class?  An email?  Some kind of correspondence?  I get those all the time from my school district.  Notes from the district, from the school administration, from the teachers...  there's always something coming home.  In elementary school, it was a lot of fliers that went home.  As the schools embraced technology and started looking at budget reductions, they've transitioned mostly to emails now that my oldest are in high school.  But the communication is there.

I just can't imagine that a guest speaker of any kind happened without notification to the kids.  And to be clear, if it didn't happen, I think the school dropped the ball not because she's an ex-porn star.  Rather, it's because they aren't communicating as they should with parents.  Does the distinction make sense to you?


----------



## Tez3

Steve said:


> You don't think a note went out to the parents informing them that Sasha Grey was going to read to the class? An email? Some kind of correspondence? I get those all the time from my school district. Notes from the district, from the school administration, from the teachers... there's always something coming home. In elementary school, it was a lot of fliers that went home. As the schools embraced technology and started looking at budget reductions, they've transitioned mostly to emails now that my oldest are in high school. But the communication is there.
> 
> I just can't imagine that a guest speaker of any kind happened without notification to the kids. And to be clear, if it didn't happen, I think the school dropped the ball not because she's an ex-porn star. Rather, it's because they aren't communicating as they should with parents. Does the distinction make sense to you?




I imagine the school would be keen to let parents know whenever it had someone coming to read, it shows they are taking part in the scheme and lets parents know that the school is doing 'something'. I don't know any school that doesn't try to blow it's trumpet this way so the odds are on that the parents knew who was coming. I'm guessing a couple of people picked up on it, disapproved and started the ball rolling. Probably at a guess the same parents that don't want any ex education in schools and no science about dinosaurs or evolution.


----------



## granfire

Tez3 said:


> I imagine the school would be keen to let parents know whenever it had someone coming to read, it shows they are taking part in the scheme and lets parents know that the school is doing 'something'. I don't know any school that doesn't try to blow it's trumpet this way so the odds are on that the parents knew who was coming. I'm guessing a couple of people picked up on it, disapproved and started the ball rolling. Probably at a guess the same parents that don't want any ex education in schools and no science about dinosaurs or evolution.



you sometimes creep me out. Are you sure yo are not living next door from me?!

But to me the most interesting aspect was the outrage over this lady once upon a time doing pr0n, OH EM GEE how dare the school, while on the other hand we have a state and half the nation defend the ongoing vile actions of a man entrusted with kids on a daily basis. Not to forget the decades of coverup!


----------



## crushing

This is my take. A note went out that Sasha Grey, actress of the HBO hit show Entourage was coming to read to the children. The parents that actually knew of her previous work as an adult film star did not want to raise a fuss and admit they were familiar with that previous work. It was only after someone else reported on her previous career that they could feign outrage along with those that really didn't know, but care. The ones screaming loudest about it after the fact are probably most familiar with her body of work.


----------



## jks9199

JohnEdward said:


> I will say if Ms. Grey wanted publicity she should have done something else, do what many stars are doing to get publicity, Say something horrible happened in their lives and write about it, be seen with someone else controversial or join the Protesters. Join the church of Scientology. Do something else over the top, kiss her brother, drink blood, adopt a bunch of an African or Southern Pacific children and have the nannies raise, like Jolie. God knows she has surpassed Madonna.  But don't use kids.  My last statement does sound conflicting....hmmm....maybe not adopt kids out of the country.
> 
> I really don't know Ms. Grey's intentions or what she was thinking when agreeing to read to the school kids. Maybe it wasn't a good idea and some forethought should have been applied by both Ms. Grey and the School.



Heaven forbid that maybe, just maybe, she wanted to READ TO KIDS to help get them excited about READING!  No way, couldn't be that.

Your attitude towards her, based on her past profession, reads through loud and clear.  Might I suggest that you consider the people that Jesus Christ chose to associate with rather famously included tax collectors and _prostitutes._  It seems that He may have been able to accept that they may have reformed...


----------



## Carol

jks9199 said:


> Heaven forbid that maybe, just maybe, she wanted to READ TO KIDS to help get them excited about READING!  No way, couldn't be that.
> 
> Your attitude towards her, based on her past profession, reads through loud and clear.  Might I suggest that you consider the people that Jesus Christ chose to associate with rather famously included tax collectors and _prostitutes._  It seems that He may have been able to accept that they may have reformed...




I also don't think she chased the kids on to a  bus and raced away to a  place off school grounds so she could read to them unsupervised.  I  think she read to the kids in their classroom with the teacher present and watching...but also having a rare moment to breathe and not be on center stage.  

She read to kids in Compton, and tweeted how sweet they were.  I bet more kids in Compton need adults that will take a moment to believe in them.


----------



## JohnEdward

jks9199 said:


> Heaven forbid that maybe, just maybe, she wanted to READ TO KIDS to help get them excited about READING!  No way, couldn't be that.
> 
> Your attitude towards her, based on her past profession, reads through loud and clear.  Might I suggest that you consider the people that Jesus Christ chose to associate with rather famously included tax collectors and _prostitutes._  It seems that He may have been able to accept that they may have reformed...



That is same thing Bob is arguing too, and I could be wrong. Am not closed off to being wrong. There is a possibility she did it from the goodness of her heart. Just because she is an ex-porn star doesn't mean she hates kids. It also doesn't me she is recruiting for either business. But she is a _mainstream "B" list movie star_, and you have to consider her motives where for publicity. Now was it to change her image, or was it to capitalize upon her career.  Don't know, but I am not going to rule it out, specially since she is the movie business and that is a common and necessary thing to due to get future jobs, get publicity. Have people know you, get controversy going, i.e. Ashton Kutcher.  The list is as long as a city block on stars who have done that.  Also what other charity work has she done with children as a mainstream actress? What other work is she planning in the future?  Entertainers and Politicians you always have to question their motives, because both fields are dependent on people's attention, and liking you. I will gladly admit am wrong if the facts show otherwise.  Until then it is my educated guess that was her motives. All roads point toward Rome.


----------



## JohnEdward

I think of the mess the school possibly dealing with like law suits, and all the unwanted attention it is getting. Parents coming up to the school rattling cages. I am sure it has cause tensions between parents and admin. Parents and families, between other parents and families. The political side that is going to be waged against the school. Ugly.

I am considering or entertaining the thought of the possibility of things might be different if it was a male. Don't know, but since it wasn't so...hmmmm......I don't know... Just looking at all sides.


----------



## JohnEdward

granfire said:


> you sometimes creep me out. Are you sure yo are not living next door from me?!
> 
> But to me the most interesting aspect was the outrage over this lady once upon a time doing pr0n, OH EM GEE how dare the school, while on the other hand we have a state and half the nation defend the ongoing vile actions of a man entrusted with kids on a daily basis. Not to forget the decades of coverup!




Be careful with what you said  a friendly note. Some can take that and say she *is* influencing kids into the porn business, kind of like what Bill echoed earlier going into the porn industry. People who feel women hold highly motherhood and a woman's influence upon both sexes of children, may see what you said as proof to their fears or concerns.  I am not taking just the right-wing bible thumpers. You have to look at the demographic of that school. Many families look upon women as playing a major role in kids lives.  If you found, am too lazy to do it, the stats of how many women vs men teach grades 1-3, I am willing to bet women really out number the men, say 20- 1 or even more.  We can't assume it isn't just the right-wing bible thumper getting all upset. It could be a variety of people getting up set and seeing women influence children the greatest. I am sure there is scientific studies on that, that show women are strongly influential on both sexes of children. Again a friendly, look out.


----------



## Chris Parker

JohnEdward said:


> That is same thing Bob is arguing too, and I could be wrong. Am not closed off to being wrong. There is a possibility she did it from the goodness of her heart. Just because she is an ex-porn star doesn't mean she hates kids. It also doesn't me she is recruiting for either business. But she is a _mainstream "B" list movie star_, and you have to consider her motives where for publicity. Now was it to change her image, or was it to capitalize upon her career.  Don't know, but I am not going to rule it out, specially since she is the movie business and that is a common and necessary thing to due to get future jobs, get publicity. Have people know you, get controversy going, i.e. Ashton Kutcher.  The list is as long as a city block on stars who have done that.  Also what other charity work has she done with children as a mainstream actress? What other work is she planning in the future?  Entertainers and Politicians you always have to question their motives, because both fields are dependent on people's attention, and liking you. I will gladly admit am wrong if the facts show otherwise.  Until then it is my educated guess that was her motives. All roads point toward Rome.



(Sigh... if only I you were reading my posts, John....)

The problem with this whole post is that there is no evidence to support your position, whereas the bulk of the evidence does support you being wrong. You just don't want to see it as it conflicts with your ideas. Your guess as to Sasha's motives is not educated, honestly, it's biased from the outset, and goes against even the evidence you have provided yourself. All roads may lead to Rome, but that doesn't help if you're heading in the wrong direction...


----------



## granfire

JohnEdward said:


> Be careful with what you said  a friendly note. Some can take that and say she *is* influencing kids into the porn business, kind of like what Bill echoed earlier going into the porn industry. People who feel women hold highly motherhood and a woman's influence upon both sexes of children, may see what you said as proof to their fears or concerns.  I am not taking just the right-wing bible thumpers. You have to look at the demographic of that school. Many families look upon women as playing a major role in kids lives.  If you found, am too lazy to do it, the stats of how many women vs men teach grades 1-3, I am willing to bet women really out number the men, say 20- 1 or even more.  We can't assume it isn't just the right-wing bible thumper getting all upset. It could be a variety of people getting up set and seeing women influence children the greatest. I am sure there is scientific studies on that, that show women are strongly influential on both sexes of children. Again a friendly, look out.



and the lady who comes in for an hour, maybe 2 has major impact on kids turning them into raging sex machines exactly how?

After all, we are not talking about teens, but 8 yo at best. 
Think porn making is transmitted via sublimeral messages, reading Dr Zeuss?


----------



## Chris Parker

As a result of this thread, I've added Sasha Grey to my facebook group, and, while this thread isn't referenced, the controversy surrounding the subject is mentioned. Sasha mentions the book she read, one "Dog Breath" by Dav Pilkey. This page has a Nascar driver (Bill Elliot) reading it out to a group of kids: http://www.gpbkids.org/georgiareadmore/ Just scroll through the books to find it....

Yep, that'll turn the kids into porn stars, sure as rain....


----------



## Tez3

Chris Parker said:


> (Sigh... if only I you were reading my posts, John....)
> 
> The problem with this whole post is that there is no evidence to support your position, whereas the bulk of the evidence does support you being wrong. You just don't want to see it as it conflicts with your ideas. Your guess as to Sasha's motives is not educated, honestly, it's biased from the outset, and goes against even the evidence you have provided yourself. All roads may lead to Rome, but that doesn't help if you're heading in the wrong direction...



I have to agree with you Chris, nor do I understand why Granfire should be careful with what she says?


----------



## Bob Hubbard

Well, with so many making something out of nothing, Ms Grey is also in my lists as well....the only person in the porn industry I might add. So there's your PR at work.  She's gained a number of supporters as a result of closed minds and avoidable hoopla.


----------



## JohnEdward

granfire said:


> and the lady who comes in for an hour, maybe 2 has major impact on kids turning them into raging sex machines exactly how?
> 
> After all, we are not talking about teens, but 8 yo at best.
> Think porn making is transmitted via sublimeral messages, reading Dr Zeuss?



Only if Dr. Zeuss is the porn name of who reads:
I think I will call it Jerkin the gherkin.
"And NOW comes an act of Enormous Enormance!
No former performers performed this performance!"

:lol:


----------



## granfire

JohnEdward said:


> Only if Dr. Zeuss is the porn name of who reads:
> I think I will call it Jerkin the gherkin.
> "And NOW comes an act of Enormous Enormance!
> No former performers performed this performance!"
> 
> :lol:



No wonder you oppose the Lovely Ms Grey to read to your kids....
you can't gather your mind out of the gutter long enough to even look just below her eyes....

:lfao:


----------



## Bob Hubbard

wait...she has eyes?


----------



## Chris Parker

Now, Bob, the eyes are the first thing I notice, and the primary (physical) attribute I fall for... and young Sasha's are certainly adorable.


----------



## JohnEdward

Bob Hubbard said:


> Well, with so many making something out of nothing, Ms Grey is also in my lists as well....the only person in the porn industry I might add. So there's your PR at work.  She's gained a number of supporters as a result of closed minds and avoidable hoopla.



Hollywood is all smoke and mirrors, and very superficial.  I think closed minds do exist, but I also think the concerns of others that vary and not due to closed mindedness should be appreciated.  It is after all an elementary school in Compton, and not one in Amish country.  You have a variety of people's views and concerns, I don't think that is taken in consideration; just because she is a pretty ex-porn star, now working in mainstream doesn't make her anymore special then others in getting a pass. And all the people against Mr. Grey's actions  are not sexually repressed, shot gun loving, closed minded left-wingers.  Some parents feel porn is a degrades and humiliates women. And for some porn encompasses more than just Ms. Grey's high end commercial films, it is an industry that includes illegal, disgusting and horrible inhumane acts.  The contention isn't specifically Ms. Grey and her film's but the industry as a whole that she is a part of and represents. Others may feel it brought unwanted attention and publicity to the school. Others maybe concerned over other things as well, such as they felt they were not properly notified or informed. All these concerns are relevant  and must be taken into an account because the school isn't homogeneous in its parent views. In contrast to being a strict cult, or dictatorship or something that is of one mind. 

To discuss any controversial topic like this you have to be open to all angles and concerns, and treat them equally.  Sure you support Ms. Grey's actions. You may be a fan. There is nothing in my mind wrong with that.  But whether we like it or not, porn stars represent a controversial industry that isn't accepted well up-front in society. It is our dirty little billion dollar a year secret. Talk about up-tight right-wingers, Hollywood doesn't accept or recognize as legitimate the porn industry as an art form like it's self. It looks down its nose at it. It is also hypocritical about it as well. But Hollywood doesn't consider having sex on film as an equal form of art. And it does have a concern with the industry as a whole making illegal etc. films.  It is just not the one group of parents with an up-tight concern. There are other parents for different reasons will equally weighted concerns that should be seriously considered. Otherwise, it is a cult or a dictatorship. Discussion is good.

What ever anyone thinks of  this issue it has generated here allot of discussion, and am sure like discussions elsewhere. What a controversy, that am sure will effect schools, parents, actors, etc. in the future.  All over an ex-porn star gone mainstream actress reading to kids.


----------



## Chris Parker

JohnEdward said:


> Hollywood is all smoke and mirrors, and very superficial.  I think closed minds do exist, but I also think the concerns of others that vary and not due to closed mindedness should be appreciated.  It is after all an elementary school in Compton, and not one in Amish country.  You have a variety of people's views and concerns, I don't think that is taken in consideration; just because she is a pretty ex-porn star, now working in mainstream doesn't make her anymore special then others in getting a pass. And all the people against Mr. Grey's actions  are not sexually repressed, shot gun loving, closed minded left-wingers.  Some parents feel porn is a degrades and humiliates women. And for some porn encompasses more than just Ms. Grey's high end commercial films, it is an industry that includes illegal, disgusting and horrible inhumane acts.  The contention isn't specifically Ms. Grey and her film's but the industry as a whole that she is a part of and represents. Others may feel it brought unwanted attention and publicity to the school. Others maybe concerned over other things as well, such as they felt they were not properly notified or informed. All these concerns are relevant  and must be taken into an account because the school isn't homogeneous in its parent views. In contrast to being a strict cult, or dictatorship or something that is of one mind.
> 
> To discuss any controversial topic like this you have to be open to all angles and concerns, and treat them equally.  Sure you support Ms. Grey's actions. You may be a fan. There is nothing in my mind wrong with that.  But whether we like it or not, porn stars represent a controversial industry that isn't accepted well up-front in society. It is our dirty little billion dollar a year secret. Talk about up-tight right-wingers, Hollywood doesn't accept or recognize as legitimate the porn industry as an art form like it's self. It looks down its nose at it. It is also hypocritical about it as well. But Hollywood doesn't consider having sex on film as an equal form of art. And it does have a concern with the industry as a whole making illegal etc. films.  It is just not the one group of parents with an up-tight concern. There are other parents for different reasons will equally weighted concerns that should be seriously considered. Otherwise, it is a cult or a dictatorship. Discussion is good.
> 
> What ever anyone thinks of  this issue it has generated here allot of discussion, and am sure like discussions elsewhere. What a controversy, that am sure will effect schools, parents, actors, etc. in the future.  All over an ex-porn star gone mainstream actress reading to kids.



What? You, of all people, preaching about the need to be open minded? Seriously?



JohnEdward said:


> Hollywood is all smoke and mirrors, and very superficial. I think closed minds do exist



Irony, thy name is John....


----------



## JohnEdward

granfire said:


> No wonder you oppose the Lovely Ms Grey to read to your kids....
> you can't gather your mind out of the gutter long enough to even look just below her eyes....
> 
> :lfao:



Honestly, it wasn't her eyes that I noticed. I was to busy being shocked at how she handled black golf balls with her nether "exit" region! 



I enjoy the female essence, a seductive romance and intimate passion, a light touch and soft caress, a swoon.  The poetic expression and feel of romantic ambiance that defines the attractiveness of a women.


----------



## granfire

JohnEdward said:


> Honestly, it wasn't her eyes that I noticed. I was to busy being shocked at how she handled black golf balls with her nether "exit" region.



you said you fell asleep!





> I enjoy the female essence, a seductive romance and intimate passion, a light touch and soft caress, a swoon.  The poetic expression and feel of romantic ambiance that defines the attractiveness of a women.



well, that certainly scratches pr0n off the list.


----------



## Chris Parker

granfire said:


> well, that certainly scratches pr0n off the list.



I don't know.... have you seen any of Andrew Blake's work from the mid-90's? Very soft, very pretty, very lovely... John might even like it....


----------



## JohnEdward

granfire said:


> you said you fell asleep!


 I did. That really isn't my cup of tea. I didn't enjoy watching it. I was researching her more for this thread, I don't normally watch porn, it isn't a personal interest of mine. Initially the act was shocking to me, and being very unattractive, paying no further mind to it, I fell asleep.


----------



## Steve

Jesus Christ, guys.  Get a room!


----------



## JohnEdward

What keeps my interest is a smile. That twinkle in the eye that is romance.


----------



## Tez3

Nothing much wrong with watching porn, fairly normal I would have thought unless you are prudish and uptight about sex. I don't see why people who say they don't watch any make so much fuss about saying they don't watch it. I can't think of much that actually shocks me when it comes to sex, can't think why it would, each to their own, no need to get prudish about what other people like as long as it's all consenting adults.


----------



## JohnEdward

Don't get me wrong, but I feel it is one thing to have sex, yet another to make love.  I am not sure what watching a woman on a screen moving black golf balls in and out of her nether "exit" region falls under...but I am not thinking it would be golf.  Granfire, it is just unappealing to me to see that. I have no personal interest in women that way.


----------



## Chris Parker

Oh, I so want to correct you, John, but I don't think you'd get it. A little too far out of your comfort zone, really (and, for the record, I'm not saying anything about my personal comfort zone or not either here, so don't be reading into it, people). Suffice to say, it's not a golf ball, so get that idea out of your head....


----------



## Tez3

JohnEdward said:


> Don't get me wrong, but I feel it is one thing to have sex, yet another to make love. I am not sure what watching a women on a screen moving black golf balls in and out of nether "exit" region falls under...but I am not thinking it would be golf.



Are you having problems in saying where those balls come in and out of?
Knowing men quite well I expect it amuses them, tbh it would amuse me as well if I saw it. It's no big deal, nothing to make a fuss of, besides while being unusual it is legal, doesn't hurt anyone and is a lot more moral than the politicians who screw you every which way they can.


----------



## JohnEdward

Just to let ya'll know, I noticed Tez3 and Chris Parker are posting after my posts. I don't know what they are saying, but I can guess, so I want to tell you I have them on my "Ignore List" as recommend.  Back to the discussion.


----------



## Chris Parker

Now, that does lead to a good conversation, when one side can't, or won't, listen to another, huh? Still, not too different to normal in many ways...


----------



## Tez3

Chris Parker said:


> Now, that does lead to a good conversation, when one side can't, or won't, listen to another, huh? Still, not too different to normal in many ways...



How can he guess what's being said? Posting after his, well yes, it's called a conversation or a debate. One person posts then another does neither Chris nor I post three or four times in a row, one after another ( something I believe that's discouraged here). we like the to and fro of discussion. We aren't in cahoots, I imagine the time difference between our three different countries has a lot to do with when we post as much as anything, I know that there is a small window for people in Oz and the UK to chat at a reasonable time for both as we have 12 hours difference between us.


----------



## mook jong man

JohnEdward said:


> Don't get me wrong, but I feel it is one thing to have sex, yet another to make love.  I am not sure what watching a woman on a screen moving black golf balls in and out of her nether "exit" region falls under...but I am not thinking it would be golf.  Granfire, it is just unappealing to me to see that. I have no personal interest in women that way.



It's a wonder Tiger Woods didn't crack on to her then , he would have been able to combine his two great loves , golf and sex.
It would have been a marriage made in heaven.  :ultracool


----------



## Chris Parker

Tez3 said:


> How can he guess what's being said? Posting after his, well yes, it's called a conversation or a debate. One person posts then another does neither Chris nor I post three or four times in a row, one after another ( something I believe that's discouraged here). we like the to and fro of discussion. We aren't in cahoots, I imagine the time difference between our three different countries has a lot to do with when we post as much as anything, I know that there is a small window for people in Oz and the UK to chat at a reasonable time for both as we have 12 hours difference between us.



What I'm curious about is if John means that we shouldn't bother posting in any conversation he's involved in? As to guessing what we're saying, honestly, I have no idea how he could be guessing at anything. I know that, in my case, he put me on ignore because he couldn't/wouldn't answer questions about his training background, and didn't like being corrected when frequently wrong, and as for Tez, well, she didn't agree with his take on things. I think it's going to get rather lonely for John here pretty quickly...


----------



## granfire

JohnEdward said:


> Just to let ya'll know, I noticed Tez3 and Chris Parker are posting after my posts. I don't know what they are saying, but I can guess, so I want to tell you I have them on my "Ignore List" as recommend.  Back to the discussion.


 


Chris Parker said:


> Now, that does lead to a good conversation, when one side can't, or won't, listen to another, huh? Still, not too different to normal in many ways...



nothing like handling things the mature way:

Sticking your fingers in your ears and singing  LALALALALALALALALALALALALALALA


----------



## Chris Parker

You do realise that John will take that as support for his position, assuming I've said something nasty about him, yeah? Oh, this is fun...


----------



## JohnEdward

Hey Granfire, if you're not from the Compton elementary school, how would the school(s) in your home town and possibly the parents react to the Compton controversy?


----------



## Bob Hubbard

I went back and checked.

She -does- have nice ... eyes.


----------



## Chris Parker

JohnEdward said:


> Hey Granfire, if you're not from the Compton elementary school, how would the school(s) in your home town and possibly the parents react to the Compton controversy?



Hmm, that's quite an edit from:



			
				granfire said:
			
		

> nothing like handling things the mature way:
> 
> Sticking your fingers in your ears and singing LALALALALALALALALALALALALALALA





			
				JohnEdward said:
			
		

> Yep, ignorance is bliss.




But more to the point, with John missing most of the arguments against his assumptions, as well as the details that show that his assumptions are not supported by the evidence that he himself provided, I'd be curious as to what he thinks the controversy is at this point in time, and if it's the same as what the rest of those who have seen all parts of the discussion would consider a controversy... hmmm.


----------



## JohnEdward

Bob Hubbard said:


> I went back and checked.
> 
> She -does- have nice ... eyes.


:cofeespit:

Am waiting for someone to say the old joke, "and nice...._assets_ as well."


----------



## Chris Parker

Bob Hubbard said:


> I went back and checked.
> 
> She -does- have nice ... eyes.



Told you. I'll keep my other recommendations to myself... for now....


----------



## jks9199

JohnEdward said:


> To discuss any controversial topic like this you have to be open to all angles and concerns, and treat them equally.  Sure you support Ms. Grey's actions. You may be a fan. There is nothing in my mind wrong with that.  But whether we like it or not, porn stars represent a controversial industry that isn't accepted well up-front in society. It is our dirty little billion dollar a year secret. Talk about up-tight right-wingers, Hollywood doesn't accept or recognize as legitimate the porn industry as an art form like it's self. It looks down its nose at it. It is also hypocritical about it as well. But Hollywood doesn't consider having sex on film as an equal form of art. And it does have a concern with the industry as a whole making illegal etc. films.  It is just not the one group of parents with an up-tight concern. There are other parents for different reasons will equally weighted concerns that should be seriously considered. Otherwise, it is a cult or a dictatorship. Discussion is good.



So, what, the only people who can read to kids are those with no controversy attached?  Sorry, Fred Rogers is dead.  And even he had some controversy attached to him...

Again, we come down to the simple fact that a celebrity, even if "only" B-list, cable tv and *former* porn actress, took some time to go to a school and read to 1st and 3rd graders.  And, in response, some folks got their knickers into twists.


----------



## Bob Hubbard

It's not like it was Aurora 'the gape' Snow.


----------



## JohnEdward

jks9199 said:


> So, what, the only people who can read to kids are those with no controversy attached?  Sorry, Fred Rogers is dead.  And even he had some controversy attached to him...
> 
> Again, we come down to the simple fact that a celebrity, even if "only" B-list, cable tv and *former* porn actress, took some time to go to a school and read to 1st and 3rd graders.  And, in response, some folks got their knickers into twists.



NO....who said that. The school has to respect those parents that may have objections, by providing parents with an option to opt out.  If not than it is irresponsible of the school. It is a matter of educational professionalism given to the parents by the school that attends to their kids. If no option is given, then it is helloooooo Orwell, good bye democracy. It doesn't matter what side of the aisle your sit.


----------



## Chris Parker

Honestly, JKS quoting part of this has had me go back and look a little closer at what John actually posted.... and, frankly, there are quite a few things that need pointing out to him. So, uh, if he's still listening to anyone, they may want to pass this on?



JohnEdward said:


> Hollywood is all smoke and mirrors, and very superficial.  I think closed minds do exist, but I also think the concerns of others that vary and not due to closed mindedness should be appreciated.  It is after all an elementary school in Compton, and not one in Amish country.  You have a variety of people's views and concerns, I don't think that is taken in consideration; just because she is a pretty ex-porn star, now working in mainstream doesn't make her anymore special then others in getting a pass. And all the people against Mr. Grey's actions  are not sexually repressed, shot gun loving, closed minded left-wingers.  Some parents feel porn is a degrades and humiliates women. And for some porn encompasses more than just Ms. Grey's high end commercial films, it is an industry that includes illegal, disgusting and horrible inhumane acts.  The contention isn't specifically Ms. Grey and her film's but the industry as a whole that she is a part of and represents. Others may feel it brought unwanted attention and publicity to the school. Others maybe concerned over other things as well, such as they felt they were not properly notified or informed. All these concerns are relevant  and must be taken into an account because the school isn't homogeneous in its parent views. In contrast to being a strict cult, or dictatorship or something that is of one mind.



Right, I kinda addressed this earlier, but to recap, John talking about open mindedness is rather, uh, disingenuous to my ears. Added to that there is a lot of generalisation and vague assumption throughout this entire paragraph, with no real evidence to back any of it up whatsoever. John is saying what his illeducated take on this subject is (he professes to not enjoy such entertainment, "falling asleep" while doing the much needed research and watching a few minutes of one of Sasha's 160+ films, taking that as representative of the entire body of work and industry, it seems...), and that's about it.

But to deal with the next paragraph in more detail.... 



JohnEdward said:


> To discuss any controversial topic like this you have to be open to all angles and concerns, and treat them equally.


 
On paper, agreed. But I have major concerns as to whether or not John can take his own advice here, as frankly, he has yet to demonstrate any such capability.



JohnEdward said:


> Sure you support Ms. Grey's actions. You may be a fan. There is nothing in my mind wrong with that.


 
That's not what comes through in your posts, though...



JohnEdward said:


> But whether we like it or not, porn stars represent a controversial industry that isn't accepted well up-front in society.



This is what I mean when I talk about John's lack of education in this area. Porn stars have been increasingly mainstream since the late 90's when companies like Vivid started having their contract stars appearing as guest hosts on "E", as well as making appearances in Guitar World as models along with the annual "Buyers Guide. Before that, Playboy magazine was seen as quite a legitimate career move for models, actresses, singers, and other celebrities. This has continued to today, with Lindsay Lohan apparently recently posing for the magazine.

Porn stars make cameos in many music videos (Janine Lindemulder in Blink 182's "What's My Age Again?", as well as appearing on the cover of their album, Bloodhound Gang having a song entitled "The Ballad of Chasey Lain" [described as "the most beautiful woman in porn"], various actresses in a number of Eminem clips, and so on), as well as a number of musicians being married to performers of various ilks.

So "not accepted well"? Maybe not for a family night with the kids... but still hardly the "dirty little secret" of the 70's.



JohnEdward said:


> It is our dirty little billion dollar a year secret.



Might be a dirty little secret to you, John, but if you're spending a billion dollars a year, it may be hard to keep it that way.... hell, one of my standard "first date" questions is "who's your favourite porn star?"... and I always get an answer. Then again, maybe I'm just a little more comfortable with this than you are....



JohnEdward said:


> Talk about up-tight right-wingers, Hollywood doesn't accept or recognize as legitimate the porn industry as an art form like it's self. It looks down its nose at it.



My, my, my, uh, no. You might, but the industry, as a whole, doesn't. In fact, the adult industry, as more of a face for the concepts of free speech and censorship issues actually has them more lauded than derided. That's how we get films like "Boogy Nights", "Orgazmo", "The People vs Larry Flynt", the upcoming biopic on Linda Lovelace (the real origin of mainstream acceptance of porn, if we're going to look at this... and that was, what, over 30 years ago?), and more. Additionally, there are a large number of mainstream film makers who are constantly pushing the boundaries, trying to get things more and more real in that way, such as Vincent Gallo's "The Brown Bunny", Michael Winterbottoms "Nine Songs" (a mainstream film that featured actual sex), and so on. Then, of course, there's the film that Sasha starred in as well, "The Girlfriend Experience". You might want to see what all the fuss is about by checking that out, rather than a random scene of a particular sexual act that seems to not work for you... not that you seemed to know what you were looking at.



JohnEdward said:


> It is also hypocritical about it as well.



Pot/kettle, John. And you may want to check your facts before you state such things.



JohnEdward said:


> But Hollywood doesn't consider having sex on film as an equal form of art. And it does have a concern with the industry as a whole making illegal etc. films.


 
Do you have any idea how concerned the adult industry is about the legality of their films? They have an even bigger issue with piracy than mainstream films, to the point that there is getting to be a huge crackdown on such things. "Free" torent and streaming websites are a huge issue for the industry. 

And, seriously, "illegal films"? The genre is legal, John. Deal with it. These vague allusions to "illegal, disgusting, and inhumane acts", honestly, I have no idea what you're talking about. That's not the industry, and I might suggest that your prejudices are showing. Again. 



JohnEdward said:


> It is just not the one group of parents with an up-tight concern.



No, it's a self-righteous and sanctimonious media, and the "moral watchdogs" with an up-tight concern. Again, your entire contention has been that the parents were not informed, and so far, there has been no evidence to support your contention.



JohnEdward said:


> There are other parents for different reasons will equally weighted concerns that should be seriously considered.



And where in any of this are the concerns of parents not being considered? Seriously, there is no evidence for any of these moral high ground statements you're making.



JohnEdward said:


> Otherwise, it is a cult or a dictatorship.



Again, there is no evidence for your statements... but I don't think you understand what a cult is, frankly. Nor a dictatorship. And, for that matter, dictatorships are fine, I gotta say. It depends on the context, and the situation. A public school? No. My martial arts class? Yep. That's a dictatorship, and make no mistake about it. So trying to paint "dictatorship" as a bad thing is to not understand it either.



JohnEdward said:


> Discussion is good.



You want me to fall over laughing, don't you? "Discussion is good", yet at the same time, you have put numerous people on ignore because they disagreed with you, or, worse, questioned you? And you feel justified in this because you are "fair and civil", and that's why you put myself, Tez, and others on ignore? Seriously? Can we go back to your comment about hypocrisy now?



JohnEdward said:


> What ever anyone thinks of  this issue it has generated here allot of discussion, and am sure like discussions elsewhere. What a controversy, that am sure will effect schools, parents, actors, etc. in the future.  All over an ex-porn star gone mainstream actress reading to kids.



I honestly don't think it'll have any more effect other than that particular school may get their outside talent agent to check things a little more closely in future, or just get a different agent. Seriously, you're thinking this is much bigger than it is... but as you're not hearing any of the answers as to why it's not what you think it is, you're not going to actually learn, are you?


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## Chris Parker

JohnEdward said:


> NO....who said that. The school has to respect those parents that may have objections, by providing parents with an option to opt out.  If not than it is irresponsible of the school. It is a matter of educational professionalism given to the parents by the school that attends to their kids. If no option is given, then it is helloooooo Orwell, good bye democracy. It doesn't matter what side of the aisle your sit.



Sigh.. there is no support for your base contention, and frankly, John, the whole "hello Orwell, good bye democracy" thing is a bit overblown, don't you think? And no, it doesn't matter what side of the aisle you sit when you only look at the pews on your side....


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## JohnEdward

The National Education Association&#8217;s (NEA) and their 'Read Across America' program steering clear of associating with Ms.Grey saying it was the school and the school districts idea to have her read in a largely Latino school of mostly Catholic immigrant parents; having 73% of student population Latino. Sorry to say, I don't think primary or secondary schools will be inviting Ms. Grey, am sure though she will be a big hit in the Adult literacy programs.  :lol:

I think writer Tim Kenneally agrees: 


> "I am proud to have participated in the 'Read Across America' program at Emerson Elementary School in Compton, CA. I read 'Dog Breath' by Dav Pilkey to the sweetest 1st and 3rd grade children," Grey wrote.
> 
> "Promoting education is an effort that is close to my heart. Illiteracy contributes to poverty; encouraging children to pick up a book is fundamental. I believe education is a universal right," Grey added. "I believe in the future of our children, and I will remain an active supporter and participant in education-focused initiatives."
> 
> Way to do it for the kids, Sasha -- even if some people might have a difficult time, uh, swallowing it.



http://www.thewrap.com/tv/article/porn-star-sasha-grey-ill-read-your-kids-if-i-want-32732?page=0,0


The idea that the parents who are upset over this are umm....white conservative christian parents (that watch FOX News and the 700 club that drive SUVs violent loving sex haters - secret porn watching analphobic hypocrites), is the wrong assumption. Emerson school stats: http://school-ratings.com/ratingsDetails.php?cds=19734376012272


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## JohnEdward

I think the kids at their age of course can't appreciate Ms. Grey's former icon talents, nor knew who she was, like the school admin and the Compton school district.   The kids read to at Emerson, on the other hand would have really appreciated Dora The Explorer, or such relatable actor from English speaking or Spanish speaking popular kids shows.  Ms.Grey would have really been appreciated at the college level, giving a lecture on acting.


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## Chris Parker

JohnEdward said:


> The National Education Association&#8217;s (NEA) and their 'Read Across America' program steering clear of associating with Ms.Grey saying it was the school and the school districts idea to have her read in a largely Latino school of mostly Catholic immigrant parents; having 73% of student population Latino. Sorry to say, I don't think primary or secondary schools will be inviting Ms. Grey, am sure though she will be a big hit in the Adult literacy programs.  :lol:
> 
> I think writer Tim Kenneally agrees:
> 
> 
> http://www.thewrap.com/tv/article/porn-star-sasha-grey-ill-read-your-kids-if-i-want-32732?page=0,0
> 
> 
> The idea that the parents who are upset over this are umm....white conservative christian parents (that watch FOX News and the 700 club that drive SUVs violent loving sex haters - secret porn watching analphobic hypocrites), is the wrong assumption. Emerson school stats: http://school-ratings.com/ratingsDetails.php?cds=19734376012272



I'm not sure where you got that assumption from (white conservative christian parents... ), but, out of interest, what is the breakup for Christian, particularly Catholic, amongst the Latino community? Such puritanical views are not the single domain of such stereotypes, John.



JohnEdward said:


> I think the kids at their age of course can't appreciate Ms. Grey's former icon talents, nor knew who she was, like the school admin and the Compton school district.   The kids read to at Emerson, on the other hand would have really appreciated Dora The Explorer, or such relatable actor from English speaking or Spanish speaking popular kids shows.  Ms.Grey would have really been appreciated at the college level, giving a lecture on acting.



Again, what makes you think that the school admin or the "Compton school district" knew about Sasha's background? You didn't before this thread, nor were you aware of her mainstream work. And as far as having "Dora the Explorer" turn up? That would be better as content to be read... after all, you do know she's not real, yeah?

Oh, and the little digs and jibes at Sasha due to your prejudices don't help your argument, as it shows you're not really looking at anything other than your bias based on her previous career. I'm sure you think you're being funny, but frankly, you're not. Honestly, Sasha is far more literate and eloquent than you are, as evidenced through her statements, and her interviews, as well as her co-authoring a book, so casting stones isn't a great idea. Just sayin'.....


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## RandomPhantom700

Sheesh, I ignore the thread for a few days, and my last comment is buried deep* in the thread history.  Anyway...



Steve said:


> Personally, even were she an active porn star, I still don't see the problem.
> 
> Porn is legal. If she's of age, working for above board production companies, it's legal. It IS a viable option to working at the grocery store or being a teacher. Many of those girls make a boatload of money for a couple hours work per day. It's their choice. Would I want my daughter's doing it? No. Of course, I'd hope that they have better options. In the same vein, I would hope that they have better options than flipping burgers full time, too. Sex is just not a big deal, guys, and it remains very odd to me that it's illegal to sell something in our country that we can give away for free any time we want.



Porn, or at least Sasha Gray's variety, is indeed legal, and I agree with you that criminalizing sex, at least between adults, is hypocritical.  My point is just that the schoolboard, arguably, has more concerns than with just whether the person's history is legal.  It's not an ideal, of course, but Ms. Gray is going to carry the stain* of her prior employment.  Her being an ex-porn star is going to be a part of her reputation; this doesn't mean she can't escape it or rise above it, but it's just going to be there.  And schoolboards have to consider the opinions of their students' parents when deciding what role models they're going to sponsor, because that's exactly what they're doing by having people come in to read to schoolchildren.  

I'm really not trying to say that once a pornstar, always a pornstar, but I do think that it's not unreasonable for schoolboards and parents to be concerned about it.  Yes, being a pornstar is a viable option; so's becoming a stripper.  Is either one a profession, or a route through life, that a school should be presenting to students?   

(*cwutididthur?)


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## Tez3

RandomPhantom700 said:


> Sheesh, I ignore the thread for a few days, and my last comment is buried deep* in the thread history. Anyway...
> 
> 
> 
> Porn, or at least Sasha Gray's variety, is indeed legal, and I agree with you that criminalizing sex, at least between adults, is hypocritical. My point is just that the schoolboard, arguably, has more concerns than with just whether the person's history is legal. It's not an ideal, of course, but Ms. Gray is going to carry the stain* of her prior employment. Her being an ex-porn star is going to be a part of her reputation; this doesn't mean she can't escape it or rise above it, but it's just going to be there. And schoolboards have to consider the opinions of their students' parents when deciding what role models they're going to sponsor, because that's exactly what they're doing by having people come in to read to schoolchildren.
> 
> I'm really not trying to say that once a pornstar, always a pornstar, but I do think that it's not unreasonable for schoolboards and parents to be concerned about it. Yes, being a pornstar is a viable option; so's becoming a stripper. Is either one a profession, or a route through life, that a school should be presenting to students?
> 
> (*cwutididthur?)




I think the question is whether they are presenting porn as a profession by having her read to young children. Was she introduced as 'the famous porn star' or even as an actress or was she presented as 'this lady Ms Gray (though I believe some reports said she used her own name rather than her stage name) who has come to read to you today'?
It could also be thought that she is showing that one can rise above being something considered by society as immoral etc if you have the will to do it. I do think that by stirring this up into a big storm in a tea cup some parents will have had some interesting questions to answer from their children. This would have been far better dealt with discreetly between the parents and the school, really it's not anyone else's business.


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## Steve

RandomPhantom700 said:


> Sheesh, I ignore the thread for a few days, and my last comment is buried deep* in the thread history.  Anyway...
> 
> 
> 
> Porn, or at least Sasha Gray's variety, is indeed legal, and I agree with you that criminalizing sex, at least between adults, is hypocritical.  My point is just that the schoolboard, arguably, has more concerns than with just whether the person's history is legal.  It's not an ideal, of course, but Ms. Gray is going to carry the stain* of her prior employment.  Her being an ex-porn star is going to be a part of her reputation; this doesn't mean she can't escape it or rise above it, but it's just going to be there.  And schoolboards have to consider the opinions of their students' parents when deciding what role models they're going to sponsor, because that's exactly what they're doing by having people come in to read to schoolchildren.
> 
> I'm really not trying to say that once a pornstar, always a pornstar, but I do think that it's not unreasonable for schoolboards and parents to be concerned about it.  Yes, being a pornstar is a viable option; so's becoming a stripper.  Is either one a profession, or a route through life, that a school should be presenting to students?
> 
> (*cwutididthur?)


First, and I should get brony points for this, too. 







Regarding your post, I want to point out that I have acknowledged several times that if the school board has a policy, I can completely understand, even if I don't agree.  

But, by all accounts I've read, they don't.  This is an after the fact, mock outrage issue and IMO, it's much ado about nothing.  

Also, whether Sasha Grey is or was a porn star, again there has been nothing to suggest that either her OR the school administration presented ANY profession other than acting in mainstream television.  She didn't campaign on behalf of porn or the porn industry in any way that I could see.  And I would agree that, had she, it would be inappropriate.  

For me, it's like someone being gay.  Now, you are entitled to your opinions regarding homosexuality, as am I.   And we don't have to agree.  But I believe that there is nothing wrong with a gay man or woman reading to a group of kids.  I also believe that it would be VERY inappropriate if this gay man or woman advocated in any way on behalf of the gay community while in the school. 

I believe that this is the same for political leaders, whether I agree or disagree with them.  It's the same with religious leaders or public figures.  IMO.

As an extension to this, I lean toward inclusion over exclusion in education, as well.  What I mean is, in an appropriate venue and to an age appropriate audience, I'm very much in favor of provocative debate within classes.  In other words, I think that bringing local religious leaders into an introductory philosophy class to high school kids is AWESOME.  Let the kids learn about world religion FROM the people who know it best.  Let the debate team hear from local political leaders. 

Important points:  appropriate venue (ie, religion NOT in a science class) AND appropriate audience (ie, high school aged kids).


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## crushing

Tez3 said:


> I do think that by stirring this up into a *big storm in a tea cup *some parents will have had some interesting questions to answer from their children. This would have been far better dealt with discreetly between the parents and the school, really it's not anyone else's business.



There was the storm at the local level and then storm the spread across the country. So basically, Two Gales One Cup.


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## granfire

crushing said:


> There was the storm at the local level and then storm the spread across the country. So basically, Two Gales One Cup.



REALLY bad pun!

(and no, do not EVER click on the video link to the reference. EVER!!!!)


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## ballen0351

crushing said:


> There was the storm at the local level and then storm the spread across the country. So basically, Two Gales One Cup.




Nice one lol


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## Josh Oakley

Holy crap, this thread exploded. Not much new information or argument, but some awesome puns! Be right back. Grabbing popcorn.... And a wetnap.


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