# Is there such a thing as a grappling kata?



## Makalakumu (Feb 1, 2006)

I've been pondering this concept for a while and I'm wondering if there is such a thing as a grappling kata?

I've got some ideas that I could turn into a kata, but if the wheel exists, why reinvent it?


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## Andrew Green (Feb 1, 2006)

Not in the sense of a karate style kata, and truthfully I doubt it would work.  However there are a good many 2-person flow drills that would resemble a 2-person kata.

I suppose you could sequence basic movements, shots, sprawl, shrimping, bridging, etc.  But I just don't see the point...


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## Makalakumu (Feb 1, 2006)

Andrew Green said:
			
		

> Not in the sense of a karate style kata, and truthfully I doubt it would work. However there are a good many 2-person flow drills that would resemble a 2-person kata.
> 
> I suppose you could sequence basic movements, shots, sprawl, shrimping, bridging, etc. But I just don't see the point...


 
I've played around with making some two person drills into one person drills and I've also played with sequencing some basic movements.  The point of a kata from a TMA perspective is to help one practice the moves, to remember them, and to easily transport them.  I think that making some kata would be a pretty good way to incorporate grappling into a TMA that uses kata.  

Of course, it would be nice to just go out and learn one if they exist...


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## Eternal Beginner (Feb 1, 2006)

There are many drills in grappling we use that could be seen as a "kata".  Learning and practicing transitions between submission attempts is commonly done as a sequence.  You know, try submission "A" and if that fails, go to "B" (example: triangle attempt, guy postures so you flow into an armbar,that fails so you try to recover guard, etc.).  

Taking submissions to a likely point of failure and then drilling responses with other submission attempts is something that is very useful.  Not exactly a "kata" but common enough.  

All that being said, I don't know of any ritualised 'grappling kata'.


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## arnisador (Feb 1, 2006)

There are 2-person kata in Judo...but they're more for demonstration purposes than anything else, in my opinion.

A grappling kata? You could have a kata where you shrimp, bridge, roll, etc., but basically, it just is a different sort of animal.


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## jujutsu_indonesia (Feb 1, 2006)

upnorthkyosa said:
			
		

> I've been pondering this concept for a while and I'm wondering if there is such a thing as a grappling kata?
> 
> I've got some ideas that I could turn into a kata, but if the wheel exists, why reinvent it?


 
Many Katas in traditional Jujutsu are two man Katas (pair work), and much of them are recognizable by BJJ folks as similar with their techniques.

For example, in Shindenfudo-ryu Dakentaijutsu, the Kata called "Fuubi" is something that resembling BJJ's "flying closed guard" drill.

Takagi Yoshin-ryu Kata called "Yotsude Kuzushi" is something that resembles Judo's "tomoenage-kohokaiten-jujijime" drill

In fact, Takagi Yoshin-ryu devoted a section of their densho (ancient scroll) to choking techniques, they call it "shimenokata".


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## kenpojujitsu (Feb 1, 2006)

upnorthkyosa said:
			
		

> I've been pondering this concept for a while and I'm wondering if there is such a thing as a grappling kata?
> 
> I've got some ideas that I could turn into a kata, but if the wheel exists, why reinvent it?


 
There is grappling all throughout the Okinawan karate kata.
But go ahead and make your kata and add to them.  It will be a good learning experience for you.


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## Makalakumu (Feb 1, 2006)

kenpojujitsu said:
			
		

> There is grappling all throughout the Okinawan karate kata.
> But go ahead and make your kata and add to them. It will be a good learning experience for you.


 
I work alot with the traditional Okinawan kata and I know alot of the tuite (I could always learn more).  However, I am thinking of a kata that actually takes place on the ground.  I would like to see something that flows from side mount to rear mount to superior mount.  Maybe work some techniques into it...enough to get a basic understanding.  

I've got a pretty good kata going for the judo hold downs, but that is only one aspect of grappling.


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## Flying Crane (Feb 1, 2006)

In the sense of a traditional, one-man kata, I think it would be difficult to develop a grappling kata.  I have also thought about this, but would not be sure where to even start.  While throws, sweeps, and takedowns do exist in many traditional kata I think the problem is that ground grappling techniques are difficult to practice without a partner.  How do you realistically recreate these techniques by yourself while you are rolling around on the ground?  I think that for these kinds of techniques, the one-man kata is just not the best approach to training.


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## Flying Crane (Feb 1, 2006)

Maybe the sweeps and takedowns that are found in traditional kata could be followed up with a ground pin and a finishing strike, before popping back up and proceeding to the next technique.

Perhaps a kata could be created that begins each scenario with a standing defense against a typical attack.  The defense would include a sweep, throw, or takedown of some kind and would then drop into a pinning technique with some kind of a finishing strike.  After this, you could work in techniques for getting off the floor quickly to face the next opponent in the kata and incorporate another set of techniques to defend, takedown, and finish.  

This admittedly would not be a fully grappling based kata, but maybe this would be a place to start.  I still can't figure out how to realistically create grappling techniques while rolling around on the floor by yourself.  Admittedly, grappling is where I have the least training, so I am probably not one to comment further on it.  anyway, these are my thoughts on it.


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## bignick (Feb 1, 2006)

arnisador said:
			
		

> There are 2-person kata in Judo...but they're more for demonstration purposes than anything else, in my opinion.



Only in the same way a kata in any other art is just for "demonstration".  The beauty of judo kata is that they are so easy to break down and practice.  It can be hard to focus on just the first few moves or a sequence of a solo kata, but much easier to say, "OK, let's just drill the Uki otoshi from Nage no Kata".  Having someone "real" makes it a lot easier...


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## Touch Of Death (Feb 1, 2006)

Haven't you heard of professional wrestling? That is two man Kata city!
Sean


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## Marvin (Feb 1, 2006)

Aikido has a lot of 2 person katas


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## Aaron Fields (Feb 1, 2006)

Kata in Japanese budo of any sort are most often two person.  Only imports, karate for example, use one person forms.

Also, I think it is best described in analogy.  Kata are like the grammar and spelling of a langauge.  They teach the basic waza, ma-ai, etc, but are not meant to be combat simulations.  Randori is writing or speaking, kata is grammar and spelling.  Another analogy is notes, scales, and music.

Finally, kata exist in grappling even if not by that name.  Judo has a number of kata; nage-no kata, gatame-no kata, kime-no kata, ju-no kata......

Aaron Fields
Seattle Jujutsu Club, Hatake Dojo
Sea-Town Sombo
www.seattle-jujutsu.org


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## kingkong89 (Nov 6, 2006)

i have studied the art of grappaling for the past few years and i have never heard of a grappaling kata.


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## KOROHO (Nov 6, 2006)

Yes.  There has always been Judo Kata.  There are also Kata in many Jujutsu styles.

Many schools practice Kata, they just use that word.  Prevoiusly one person mentioned "2 person flow drills that resemble kata".  I would venture to say this is a perfect example of just that.  A "2 person flow drill" sure sounds like kata to me.

Not too mention all the grappling that exists in the Okinawan Karate Kata.

if you take a technqiue or a drill and practice it in repetition in the same manner, then you are doing kata.


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## Marvin (Nov 8, 2006)

Judo has kata as well.
http://www.judoinfo.com/katamenu.htm


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## DavidCC (Nov 8, 2006)

Grappling vs Groundfighting. Of course most kata we know have some grappling & throwing.  but I think you are talking about groundfighting (a subcategory of grappling).

I think you absolutely could develop a kata that was done on the ground.  it might look very strange though LOL.  A lot of waving your legs around in the air and flopping around from stomach to back... but as an encapsulation of submission technqiues and positional transitions, a mnemonic device, it could be useful.  Especially to someone who doesn't get the opportunity to actually roll with another body very often.


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