# Another Perspective - Same Conclusions



## Doc (Apr 22, 2007)

Recently several questions have arisen on issues of using the term *commercial Kenpo, on honorary ranks, competition versus street skills, and the quality of kenpo being taught today.* This is a post from another Kenpo open forum (San Jose Kenpo) by Mills Crenshaw, an old student of Ed Parker who predates my entry into the arts under Ed Parker and therefore my senior. His perspectives have always been interesting, and for me, very insightful. His post could have easily been written by myself. The truth is, most from that era who don't make a living teaching, and willing to be public, share the same general feelings. Let the discussions begin.

Doc

*REALITY !
September 12 2006 at 9:17 PM
MillsCrenshaw   (Login MillsCrenshaw)

Response to Mills Crenshaw - Kenpo Questions*

An excellent question, Sifu Chet,

Ed Parkers early Black Belts were trained as warriors. It was a very hard system. By that I mean brutal not just difficult. As Im sure you heard Ed Parker say: 

To hear is to disbelieve; to see is to doubt; but to feel is to be convinced! We FELT every technique again and again. Kenpo was not a game. It was not a sport. It was life and death reality. We knew that each skill worked because we experienced it. Thats the way we were taught; and that was the way we were taught to teach. 

* The sport of karate is a recent development that has seriously distorted and degraded both the meaning and practice of the art. Make no mistake, competition is fun. But competition changes the skills of the competitors and breeds political discord between competing schools. In fact, through the years, politics has replaced honor and the pursuit of trophies has replaced the quest for personal excellence. Its sad that most students will never know what Kenpo was really like. *

I fought Mike Stone in Chicago (that was during the Jurassic period as I recall). He was a warrior, and a man of honor at that point in his life. Time after time points would be scored that were too fast for the judges to see...or were scored with weapons with which the judges were un familiar. I recall Mike looking around at the judges and pointing at his temple about the third time they missed a hard back-knuckle . It was a gesture of a true champion who wanted no unearned honors. 

Today you find that integrity in golf but not, I fear, in the martial arts. As a result, many years ago, I lost interest in contests between preening and posturing combatants who wouldnt last 30 seconds in a life and death struggle.

To this day, if you ask any of my students they shudder when they remember the rigors they undertook to achieve mastery of their art. 

*Tony Martinez was recently honored with his 10th degree black belt (Im sure you are aware that in Ed Parkers system any rank above 5th degree is honorary). *

I was invited by Tonys students to speak at the surprise banquet held in his honor. It was a privilege to pay tribute to a valiant warrior who had been trained in the old school and who never forgot the basic fact that the art had to have its foundation based in reality.

*Tony, Dan Lynch, Casey Clayton and the many police officers I was privileged to train never forgot that lesson, because they were convinced they felt the reality of the techniques they were taught.*

Forgive me, I didnt mean for this answer to turn into a book;.but it was an outstanding question; one that deserved an answer... An important final point. There are men running dojos who brutalize their students and call it training. These men are not worthy of being called teachers let alone Master. I taught the way Ed Parker taught me. Pain was a valuable instructor. When teaching a new technique each student was allowed to be convinced that it was really effective. Then he was allowed to convince me. My average advanced class had 35 students. Therefor, for every punch a student took, I took 35. That was Ed Parkers method of preventing his instructors from becoming brutal with their students.

*Sadly, American students are not willing to put up with the discomfort necessary to really understand the art.  *

The Tracys were quick to understand that and modified their training to make it short goal oriented and user friendly.

Their choice was neither right nor wrong. They were clever enough to package their version of the art for American consumers. It was commercially successful. 

*Many, including Ed Parker, came to the realization that in order to to make a living they would have to teach consumers commercial Kenpo. 
*

*But never forget, beneath the many colored belts and friendly forms, there lurks a deadly REALITY. *

MC


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## IWishToLearn (Apr 22, 2007)

Thanks again Doc! You're absolutely correct - every post from an Ancient I see echos similar sentiments.


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## Juggernaut (Apr 22, 2007)

Great post indeed...

Thank you Doc...


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## Kembudo-Kai Kempoka (Apr 22, 2007)

"Today you find that integrity in golf but not, I fear, in the martial arts. As a result, many years ago, I lost interest in contests between preening and posturing combatants who wouldn&#8217;t last 30 seconds in a life and death struggle."

Ayup. Moves that completely avoid telegraphing in any way, cover the distance quickly and smartly and score a point with the tip of the glove lack the same back-up mass and diectional momentum inherent in blows that knock ones block off. Two different "styles" of martial arts...tournament, and self-defense.

There is another kenpo oldster, though not as old as Doc or Mr. Crenshaw, who relays a conversation with Mr. P. in which he says to the old man, "Tournament fighting is almost singularly responsible for the decline in quality in martial arts." Big risk, saying this to the promoter of the IKC. According to the story, Mr. P. neither agreed nor disagreed, and they just lowered their heads and resumed work. Interesting response form a man with too much pocket book interest to agree, and too much pride in the old ways to disagree. At least, that's my read on it.

D.


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## JasonASmith (Apr 22, 2007)

As always, thank you, Doc..


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## kidswarrior (Apr 22, 2007)

Doc, thank you Sir. :asian:


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## Bob White (Apr 23, 2007)

*The &#8220;sport&#8221; of karate is a recent development that has seriously distorted and degraded both the meaning and practice of the art. Make no mistake, competition is fun. But competition changes the skills of the competitors and breeds political discord between competing schools. In fact, through the years, politics has replaced honor and the pursuit of trophies has replaced the quest for personal excellence. It&#8217;s sad that most students will never know what Kenpo was really like. *


I have another perspective but with a different conclusion. In Theodore Roosevelt`s speech in 1910 he said, "The credit goes to the man who is actually in the arena", not the man staying home on his computer. This is not a personal attack on either Dr. Ron Chap`el or Mills Crenshaw, both are men that I respect. I just feel that if you don`t like the way that our art is going you cannot make changes by staying away from the problem. I personally would like my students to be exposed to our leaders in kenpo and I know they would grow by watching men like Ron Chap`el interacting and leading. I believe that golf was mentioned as an example of integrity. I know golfing legend Lee Trevino was quoted as saying "The older I get, the better I was". I have taught kenpo for 40 years and I would want to involved in solving problems not complaining about them. The word "Integrity" was used in the post. John Wooden`s definition of integrity is "Purity of Intention". I believe our intention would be to promote our art and lead by example. I personally believe that my students train harder, eat better, have better opportunities to work out with skilled training partners, study fighting films, travel more, and have a greater education than the students 40 years ago. I know I have to train twice as hard, run twice as much, and lift more weights just to stay fit. I would giving a poor example if I told my students to stay fit, live a good lifestyle, and then did just the opposite.
I have many students that are police officers and they have stated that kenpo has saved their lives in real situations. Captain Ron Sanchez and myself defended ourselves against multiple attackers and there is no doubt in my mind that our survivability was enhanced because of our education in tournament fighting and our physical conditioning.
I know that there are many people involved in tournaments that are less than honorable. As Dennis Conatser says "Time either exposes or promotes". If the leaders do not show up the bad guys win.
Some of my closest friends are people that I have fought against at tournaments. I met Steve LaBounty, Benny Urquidez, Tom Kelly, Chuck Norris, Bob Wall, Howard Jackson, Cecil Peoples, Al Harvey, Carl Scott and to large a list to mention at karate tournaments. I would not have met them or competed against some of them by staying home. I would suggest that some of you read Roosevelt`s speech.
Respectfully,
Bob White


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## Kembudo-Kai Kempoka (Apr 23, 2007)

Bob White said:


> *The &#8220;sport&#8221; of karate is a recent development that has seriously distorted and degraded both the meaning and practice of the art. Make no mistake, competition is fun. But competition changes the skills of the competitors and breeds political discord between competing schools. In fact, through the years, politics has replaced honor and the pursuit of trophies has replaced the quest for personal excellence. It&#8217;s sad that most students will never know what Kenpo was really like. *
> 
> 
> I have another perspective but with a different conclusion. In Theodore Roosevelt`s speech in 1910 he said, "The credit goes to the man who is actually in the arena", not the man staying home on his computer. This is not a personal attack on either Dr. Ron Chap`el or Mills Crenshaw, both are men that I respect. I just feel that if you don`t like the way that our art is going you cannot make changes by staying away from the problem. I personally would like my students to be exposed to our leaders in kenpo and I know they would grow by watching men like Ron Chap`el interacting and leading. I believe that golf was mentioned as an example of integrity. I know golfing legend Lee Trevino was quoted as saying "The older I get, the better I was". I have taught kenpo for 40 years and I would want to involved in solving problems not complaining about them. The word "Integrity" was used in the post. John Wooden`s definition of integrity is "Purity of Intention". I believe our intention would be to promote our art and lead by example. I personally believe that my students train harder, eat better, have better opportunities to work out with skilled training partners, study fighting films, travel more, and have a greater education than the students 40 years ago. I know I have to train twice as hard, run twice as much, and lift more weights just to stay fit. I would giving a poor example if I told my students to stay fit, live a good lifestyle, and then did just the opposite.
> ...


 
Mr. White:

Thank you for your excellent and thought-provoking post. TR has always been a solid representation of recognizing what is finest in man, and the struggle to realize that in daily living.

Admittedly, the limitations I identify with the competition sparring model are my own. I have been unsuccesful at training for powerful blows with good depth penetration, directional momentum and back-up mass while working out to spar in open competition; I tend to hit AT my sparring opponents, rather than THROUGH them. My focus changes when training for full-contact, knock-down, or self-defense...I aim to corrupt structure with the shots...a mindset I've not been able to cultivate while training for tournament competition. I have been unable to honor the gentlemans spirit of the match, while working on my most favored aspects of martial arts training...depth penetration and control manipulation (hit hard, then tie the guy up).

I neither like giving nor recieving excessive contact on anything other than bags, shields and focus pads. As a chiropractor specializing in upper cervical modalities, the cumulative effects of full-contact sparring exchanges on the skeletal system are very bad, and to be rigorously avoided -- viewed a lot of x-rays of old fighters..I don't want that done to me, and I don't wanna do it to somebody else. And parameters allowing blending stand-up into a clinch and ground game are recent additions to sportive competition; not around 15+ years ago when I had the fire for such things. I am inclined nowadays by laziness and deep aches to refrain from training for such events.

The timing and perceptual speed developed from freestyle sparring is an esential tool in any martial artists chest. But it has been my own limitation to not be able to successfully blend essential elements of successful sparring technique with the essential elements of self-defense technique. Technical guidelines in one arena often contradict technical guidelines in the other. A lead hand backnuckle thrown to score a point with speed, over a distance, will have abdicated many of the lower-carriage and central body mechanics that would be applied if it were being thrown as a power blow to break a brick, board, or jawbone. Conversely, power strokes often involve body momentum waves that would telegraph intent in a competitive model.

That's been my experience of the general scope; limited by an inability to merge two different skill sets. The caveat being that there are self-defense trained kenpoists that can't hit or move worth a hill of beans, and tournament kenpoists who could break someone in half if they unleashed. 

I still think one of the greatest arguments FOR sparring in competitive venues is in that photo from your fundraiser with the smaller kid, prepared in stance for the clash with a larger opponent. What a great opportunity for people to dig deep and discover the capacity for courage that lives within.

Be well, and I look forward to seeing you again,

Dave Crouch, DC


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## Doc (Apr 23, 2007)

If there would ever be an exception to the generalities of Mr. Crenshaws post, (as well as many of my own), it would have to be Bob Whites organization and students. Ive personally known Bob White for more decades than I like to talk about, as well as his original teacher. All from top to bottom exemplify the word class. 

Also having the unique perspective of running the International Karate Championships for 12 years for Ed Parker, gave me a front row seat to the quality and demeanor of all of the organizations and its competitors that attended over the years. 

When Bob White was a competitor, he was always a prepared, tenacious, fierce fighter and his many students over the years were and are no different. One of my many tasks as executive director was to attempt to elevate and professionalize as much as possible the sport of point competition as the sport moved into its golden era of the I.K.C.

Having fought with, taught, and coached some of the games best, I understood what needed to be done to legitimize the sport and move it to another level. Whatever was asked to accomplish these goals, Bob White and his organization was always the first to step up, participate, and assist in anyway possible.

When I wrote the rulebook for Mr. Parker, Bob Whites organization participated fully in the effort to help present a professional image, and everyone from friends and parents, instructors, to competitors of all ages knew the rule book better than anyone. They all understood the importance to the sport, and presented themselves as professionals.

This resulted in the Bob White organization compiling the most impressive record of accomplishments of any organization at the I.K.C. during my tenure, from individuals at all levels, to team competition in every category. There are records that will never be broken for consistently winning.

But, from my perspective more importantly, the organization as a group presented themselves as humble ladies and gentlemen and respectful, polite competitors and represented the professionalism that I and Mr. Parker felt the sport needed to continue to succeed. Moreover, these events for many of us, were looked forward to as social gatherings as much as competition venues. Many of us gathered together before, during, and after to break bread with old friends and discuss the fluctuations in life, family, jobs, births, and yes deaths in the martial arts family away from the sport. This is where you discover the people whom you would invite to your home, and find the true humble martial artist you can call friends and family. That is the only thing I miss about tournaments.

Since the passing of Mr. Parker, and having had my fill of bad competition and competitors, I have only attended one tournament. That was a Bob White charity function several weekends past. To no surprise, Mr. White and his organization has not missed a beat. Whether on the street or in competition, Mr. White and his students will beat you, and be classy while doing it.

God Bless


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## marlon (Apr 23, 2007)

Thank you Doc, Mr.White and Mr.Crenshaw...i guess the big question remaining is how many of us teachers and students will step up in order to measure up and dare i say surpass?

Respectfully,
Marlon


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## HKphooey (Apr 24, 2007)

Thanks to Doc and Mr. White for their thoughts.

:asian:


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## kidswarrior (Apr 24, 2007)

HKphooey said:


> Thanks to Doc and Mr. White for their thoughts.
> 
> :asian:



I'd like to echo that.


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## Kenpojujitsu3 (Apr 24, 2007)

Good stuff for those of us too young to have been there.


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## Doc (Apr 24, 2007)

Kenpojujitsu3 said:


> Good stuff for those of us too young to have been there.



Whatchutryintosay? Spit it out.


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## kidswarrior (Apr 24, 2007)

Doc said:


> Whatchutryintosay? Spit it out.



Hey, Doc, if it's any consolation, I'm old enough to've been there, just wasn't. :ultracool so we all appreciate it, young 'n not so....


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## Doc (Apr 24, 2007)

kidswarrior said:


> Hey, Doc, if it's any consolation, I'm old enough to've been there, just wasn't. :ultracool so we all appreciate it, young 'n not so....



I feel better now.


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## ChadWarner (Apr 24, 2007)

Hmm... Interesting comments but I think the days of karate tournaments are numbered and  I think the same can be said for boxing.  The return of the full contact fighter has been realized.  In order to be a functional martial artist you have to fight to the point of completion.  How can a form be judged unless the form is known and all the concepts and principles are seen?  It would take a very informed individual to rate a form with a 1 thru 10 scoring system.  Better yet who is going to agree on which principles and concepts best represent movement of the American Kenpo martial art by way of a form?

If the conversation moves to point sparring or continuous sparring how is this a positive thing?  The judging is subjective just by the knowledge a judge has- much in the same way a form is judged.  The new breed of sport fighter is full contact. Knock out or tap out.   Most major cites have leagues now.  There are some very talented kids coming up... I cannot imagine Karate Kid style tournements making a comback.  It is a different world now.  

I could be wrong- wouldn't be the first time


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## Doc (Apr 24, 2007)

ChadWarner said:


> Hmm... Interesting comments but I think the days of karate tournaments are numbered and  I think the same can be said for boxing.  The return of the full contact fighter has been realized.  In order to be a functional martial artist you have to fight to the point of completion.  How can a form be judged unless the form is known and all the concepts and principles are seen?  It would take a very informed individual to rate a form with a 1 thru 10 scoring system.  Better yet who is going to agree on which principles and concepts best represent movement of the American Kenpo martial art by way of a form?
> 
> If the conversation moves to point sparring or continuous sparring how is this a positive thing?  The judging is subjective just by the knowledge a judge has- much in the same way a form is judged.  The new breed of sport fighter is full contact. Knock out or tap out.   Most major cites have leagues now.  There are some very talented kids coming up... I cannot imagine Karate Kid style tournements making a comback.  It is a different world now.
> 
> I could be wrong- wouldn't be the first time



and just who are you?


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## ChadWarner (Apr 24, 2007)

ChadWarner... duh


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## Carol (Apr 24, 2007)

Hey Chad!  Welcome to MartialTalk!  

If you have a moment, it'd be great if you can post a wee bit about yourself in the meet and greet section


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## kidswarrior (Apr 24, 2007)

Hey Chad, welcome to MT! Carol has made a good suggestion in letting people know who you are in the Meet & Greet. Hope you enjoy the Forum. Would love to hear more about your experience, and especially anything you can share about Kenpo.


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## kidswarrior (Apr 24, 2007)

Doc said:


> I feel better now.



Doc, just remember how many of us here remembered listening to The Real Don Steel _live _when you brought it up! Maybe RHIP (_Rank Has_...etc.) should include Age, too.


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## Tames D (Apr 24, 2007)

kidswarrior said:


> Doc, just remember how many of us here remembered listening to The Real Don Steel _live _when you brought it up! Maybe RHIP (_Rank Has_...etc.) should include Age, too.


Remember Kam Nelson?


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## Doc (Apr 25, 2007)

Carol Kaur said:


> Hey Chad!  Welcome to MartialTalk!
> 
> If you have a moment, it'd be great if you can post a wee bit about yourself in the meet and greet section



Chad's not a newbie, just an old friend who hasn't been around in awhile.


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## ChadWarner (Apr 25, 2007)

Thank you for the welcome Carol and Kidswarrior.  Outstanding post Doc.  I thought about What Mr. White said in response to your post.  Nothing came to mind and nothing was even romotely beneficial for the mases.   But wait a minute... I don't teach for a living so why would I care about the mases?  I believe there are six remaining original 7ths.  Why don't you all put your heads together form a coalition put on an American Kenpo only tournement.  Have five events of  Self defense, forms, submission, knockout, and a true freestyle category with a win coming only by knockout or submission.  If there was to be a time limit with no clear winner then the match is to be delclared no contest and the combatants are dqed. These six can double their numbers only by a unanimous vote and people from their groups or associations cannot compete.  If a coalition memeber resigns his postion after 2 years of service their groups are eligible for competition.  

Now who's the madder scientist?


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## jfarnsworth (Apr 25, 2007)

ChadWarner said:


> ChadWarner... duh


Like, where have you been, Man????


Loooooooooong time no see. 
Nice of you to join back.


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## Doc (Apr 26, 2007)

ChadWarner said:


> Thank you for the welcome Carol and Kidswarrior.  Outstanding post Doc.  I thought about What Mr. White said in response to your post.  Nothing came to mind and nothing was even romotely beneficial for the mases.   But wait a minute... I don't teach for a living so why would I care about the mases?  I believe there are six remaining original 7ths.  Why don't you all put your heads together form a coalition put on an American Kenpo only tournement.  Have five events of  Self defense, forms, submission, knockout, and a true freestyle category with a win coming only by knockout or submission.  If there was to be a time limit with no clear winner then the match is to be delclared no contest and the combatants are dqed. These six can double their numbers only by a unanimous vote and people from their groups or associations cannot compete.  If a coalition memeber resigns his postion after 2 years of service their groups are eligible for competition.
> 
> Now who's the madder scientist?



I hate tournaments, and depending on how you count and who you believe, there are more 7th's than that.


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## Hand Sword (Apr 26, 2007)

That's encouraging to hear. I thought *all* were 10th's by now.


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## Doc (Apr 26, 2007)

Hand Sword said:


> That's encouraging to hear. I thought *all* were 10th's by now.



I don't assign any rank to myself anymore, although I do hang my diploma from Mr. Parker on the wall along with some of the others I have attained. These days it has less meaning than it once did.

Not all have claimed 10th, and some made some huge leaps in rank to get there.


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## Hand Sword (Apr 26, 2007)

Oh sorry. Words on a screen don't always translate well. I wasn't putting you in the mix. I was referring to the multitiudes of others, that seem to jump stripes on a regular basis like 1 to 3 or 4 then to 10 shortly after. I didn't think in this day and age that 7 stripes would be enough or even used anymore. Might as well be a tenth!


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## Doc (Apr 26, 2007)

Hand Sword said:


> Oh sorry. Words on a screen don't always translate well. I wasn't putting you in the mix. I was referring to the multitiudes of others, that seem to jump stripes on a regular basis like 1 to 3 or 4 then to 10 shortly after. I didn't think in this day and age that 7 stripes would be enough or even used anymore. Might as well be a tenth!



I didn't think you meant me, but you're right about jumping from 4th to 10th. So now 10th means nothing.


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## Hand Sword (Apr 26, 2007)

Sadly true! It's all about who has the best marketing programs I guess.


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## kidswarrior (Apr 26, 2007)

Doc said:


> I didn't think you meant me, but you're right about jumping from 4th to 10th. So now 10th means nothing.



Long before I thought of doing Asian MA (things Asian in those days usually meant 'associated with a(n unpopular) war', I 'did' the US Navy. The service was, sadly, so desperate to fill the 'empty boots' that they offered an instant promotion to petty officer for anyone extending their enlistment by two years. Had a friend do this, and watched the ceremony as he became a 'Shake 'n Bake' E-4, while I remained a mundane E-3. Funny thing, tho, a few years later when I got out we were both E-5's, but he still had two years to serve for the earlier instant gratification. 

I think dan rankings only have meaning to each of us personally. Only we know if we've earned it or not, or what we might have 'earned' in life that's doesn't show up on a belt. I admire your example, Doc. It's good for the arts.


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## ChadWarner (Apr 26, 2007)

jfarnsworth said:


> Like, where have you been, Man????
> 
> 
> Loooooooooong time no see.
> Nice of you to join back.


 
Hey hey, Mr. Farnsworth good to hear from you!


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## Doc (Apr 26, 2007)

kidswarrior said:


> Long before I thought of doing Asian MA (things Asian in those days usually meant 'associated with a(n unpopular) war', I 'did' the US Navy. The service was, sadly, so desperate to fill the 'empty boots' that they offered an instant promotion to petty officer for anyone extending their enlistment by two years. Had a friend do this, and watched the ceremony as he became a 'Shake 'n Bake' E-4, while I remained a mundane E-3. Funny thing, tho, a few years later when I got out we were both E-5's, but he still had two years to serve for the earlier instant gratification.
> 
> I think dan rankings only have meaning to each of us personally. Only we know if we've earned it or not, or what we might have 'earned' in life that's doesn't show up on a belt. I admire your example, Doc. It's good for the arts.



Yeah, but bad for business.  It's a balancing act I haven't mastered.


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## Carol (Apr 26, 2007)

Doc said:


> Yeah, but bad for business.  It's a balancing act I haven't mastered.



So you aren't quitting your day job sir?


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## Doc (Apr 26, 2007)

Carol Kaur said:


> So you aren't quitting your day job sir?



I'm over sixty and would love to, - if I could only sell at least one of those girls.


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## Carol (Apr 26, 2007)

Doc said:


> I'm over sixty and would love to, - if I could only sell at least one of those girls.



Oh I'm sure you don't intimidate potential suitors one bit. :lol:


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## Doc (Apr 26, 2007)

Carol Kaur said:


> Oh I'm sure you don't intimidate potential suitors one bit. :lol:



OK I admit I used to. My favorite saying was, "Please to meet you youngman - I have a shotgun and a shovel, and I ain't afraid to use either one of them."

I've since softened my stance and just want them to mary someone with some bucks who won't beatemup, inspite of the temptation I know they're going to have.


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## Xue Sheng (Apr 26, 2007)

Doc said:


> , "Please to meet you youngman - I have a shotgun and a shovel, and I ain't afraid to use either one of them."


 
I have 2 daughters both WAAAAAY to young to even be thinking about dating, but when they get there I am going to use that line. 

Thanks


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## jfarnsworth (Apr 26, 2007)

ChadWarner said:


> Hey hey, Mr. Farnsworth good to hear from you!


 
Hey now, if you keep posting you just may get me out from lurking behind in the shadows . Nice to see you back on here.


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## ChadWarner (Apr 26, 2007)

Doc said:


> I hate tournaments, and depending on how you count and who you believe, there are more 7th's than that.


 
Ummm, it was satire.  I have only seen one list on Mr Whites site many years ago.  Is there now more lists- nevermind apparently there are, my bad.  

So are you really turning down my suggestion to participate in the Greatist Kenpo event ever?  Hate can be a great motivater... (picture groucho marx raising eyebrows several times, but only with the correct timing signature)


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## JasonASmith (Apr 26, 2007)

Doc said:


> OK I admit I used to. My favorite saying was, "Please to meet you youngman - I have a shotgun and a shovel, and I ain't afraid to use either one of them."
> 
> I've since softened my stance and just want them to mary someone with some bucks who won't beatemup, inspite of the temptation I know they're going to have.


Excellent saying, sir...
Mine is: "You're not allowed to date until your married"


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## ChadWarner (Apr 26, 2007)

jfarnsworth said:


> Hey now, if you keep posting you just may get me out from lurking behind in the shadows . Nice to see you back on here.


Oh yeah, we'll have to trake some things apart and compare notes- been a long time.  It will be fun.  I'm even gonna put some web site thing up with some clips or maybe just U tube it- dunno yet.  I guess well put up Mr. Raineys Version of 2 man set with me and my teacher.  Gonna head up to Seattle May 2nd so shortly that version can be shared.  Should a pm you but forgot how to.


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## Doc (Apr 27, 2007)

ChadWarner said:


> Oh yeah, we'll have to trake some things apart and compare notes- been a long time.  It will be fun.  I'm even gonna put some web site thing up with some clips or maybe just U tube it- dunno yet.  I guess well put up Mr. Raineys Version of 2 man set with me and my teacher.  Gonna head up to Seattle May 2nd so shortly that version can be shared.  Should a pm you but forgot how to.



Tell Asa I said to answer his phone.


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## Wes Tasker (Apr 27, 2007)

> OK I admit I used to. My favorite saying was, "Please to meet you youngman - I have a shotgun and a shovel, and I ain't afraid to use either one of them."


 
My Pekiti Tirsia instructor (a NY court officer) has a colleague who would answer the door to meet any potential sutor with his gun clearly visible.  He would then have the young man write his name on a thin label.  Then he would peel the back off the label and wrap it around the shell of a 9mm bullet and put that on the mantle.  Only then would he engage in conversation about curfew etc.

-wes tasker


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## Tames D (Apr 27, 2007)

Wes Tasker said:


> My Pekiti Tirsia instructor (a NY court officer) has a colleague who would answer the door to meet any potential sutor with his gun clearly visible. He would then have the young man write his name on a thin label. Then he would peel the back off the label and wrap it around the shell of a 9mm bullet and put that on the mantle. Only then would he engage in conversation about curfew etc.
> 
> -wes tasker


Seems reasonable to me if I had daughters.


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## ChadWarner (Apr 27, 2007)

Doc said:


> Tell Asa I said to answer his phone.


 
Yes sir!  Ya' know he calls you Sifu.  That must be going waaaayyy back.


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## Carol (Apr 27, 2007)

ChadWarner said:


> Yes sir!  Ya' know he calls you Sifu.  That must be going waaaayyy back.



Shhhh...stop reminding him


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## Doc (Apr 27, 2007)

ChadWarner said:


> Yes sir!  Ya' know he calls you Sifu.  That must be going waaaayyy back.



Yes, when he was actively training with me back in the mid- sixties, Ed Parker was in his Chinese Kenpo phase so "Sifu" was the order of the day. I can't honestly remember him calling me anything else.

We've talked recently but he stays pretty busy. Calls me when he's in town. I always know when its him because he always says, "Hello Sifu, how are you sir." He's still the humble gentleman I knew when he was actively studying with me. I'm still his Sifu. What a great guy.


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## ChadWarner (Apr 27, 2007)

Carol Kaur said:


> Shhhh...stop reminding him


Nope... first rule.  Get the ol man all riled up.  2nd rule move the conversation to something you have a good understanding of.  Then its queensbury rules- your on your own.


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## ChadWarner (Apr 27, 2007)

Doc said:


> Yes, when he was actively training with me back in the mid- sixties, Ed Parker was in his Chinese Kenpo phase so "Sifu" was the order of the day. I can't honestly remember him calling me anything else.
> 
> We've talked recently but he stays pretty busy. Calls me when he's in town. I always know when its him because he always says, "Hello Sifu, how are you sir." He's still the humble gentleman I knew when he was actively studying with me. I'm still his Sifu. What a great guy.


 
My teacher was down recently I and I showed him some video of Chuck Liddel... You see I study interesting people intensely.  At first he said something like who is this guy?  More or less disapproving but as he watched longer and longer he came to a similar conclusion.  Mr. Rainey.  Hence the term Hands of Ambiguity.


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## Doc (Apr 27, 2007)

ChadWarner said:


> My teacher was down recently I and I showed him some video of Chuck Liddel... You see I study interesting people intensely.  At first he said something like who is this guy?  More or less disapproving but as he watched longer and longer he came to a similar conclusion.  Mr. Rainey.  Hence the term Hands of Ambiguity.


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## Thesemindz (May 1, 2007)

The first time I met my wife's father, he was literally standing on the back porch cleaning his shotgun. The funny thing is, this was just a coincidence. He didn't even know we were coming over. He's always working on his firearms, he does some very limited gunsmithing and a good deal of wood work on stocks. He would have been out there with a gun either way, but it's still a funny image I'll never forget. How unbelievably stereotypical.


-Rob


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## Kembudo-Kai Kempoka (May 2, 2007)

Old shotokan instructor was also a cop and gun afficianado. Had an unbelievably gorgeous daughter with many male suitors. He made it a point to be either sharpening his katana or cleaning one of his many wicked looking guns when first dates showed up to call on his kid.

Current training partner has a couple of tweens that are gonna be heartbreakers in a coupla years. I ask him when they walk through the room with young mens eyes tracking, "You got your shotgun ready, right?" I think I'm gonna pass on Doc's greeting to him for future reference.

Old Jewish Curse: "May you have many beautiful daughters and great wealth". Both bring people to your home wanting something from you, and disturbing the peace.

D.


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## ChadWarner (May 2, 2007)

Kembudo-Kai Kempoka; 
 
Old Jewish Curse: "May you have many beautiful daughters and great wealth". Both bring people to your home wanting something from you said:
			
		

> That was so good I archived it
> C


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