# School Pro's and whoa's



## Kenpo Yahoo (Aug 7, 2002)

While I'm not sure exactly how I want to word this, I was curious what some of you school owners or former school owners had to say about running a school.  For instance:

1)  Should you lease your location?  Should you co-lease with another martial arts group (i.e. Kenpo/TKD/BJJ etc..)?  Maybe go through a health club where they pay you a fixed rate?  or teach on your own property (house, garage, makeshift dojo in the backyard, etc..)?

2)  Do you think kids classes are vital to the survival of the school?  I've always heard that kids were your "bread and butter,"  what do you think?

3)  Do you have special programs and/or seminars often?

4)  What's one thing that you've done as an owner that you would take back if you could?

I'm not asking for trade secrets or your special training program, rather just what you've learned along the way.  Have you had any bad experiences while owning a school?  Have you done something that made things easy and enjoyable?  

:idea:


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## RCastillo (Aug 7, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Kenpo Yahoo _
> 
> *While I'm not sure exactly how I want to word this, I was curious what some of you school owners or former school owners had to say about running a school.  For instance:
> 
> ...



1. Do not lease unless you can afford to lose money w/o it hurting you. Go through a "Y', a rec center, or even your own garage.

2. If you really value "real teaching" above money, then kids are not the way to go. 

3. I'm going out on my own to attend seminars, it's almost much cheaper that way, and I don't have to worry about all the incidentals.

4. Read # 1. I tried that route, it went badly. It was in a good place, in an area where the homes are in 100's, good hours, great rates. I did everything according to good business, and still lost.

Moral of the story: I work out of a "Y" , have other possibilties in the works, have had other jobs that pay well w/o the headaches. I pretty much have control over my situations, and have time to work out, enjoy life, and time to take care of my house!:asian:


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## kenpo3631 (Aug 8, 2002)

> 1) Should you lease your location? Should you co-lease with another martial arts group (i.e. Kenpo/TKD/BJJ etc..)? Maybe go through a health club where they pay you a fixed rate? or teach on your own property (house, garage, makeshift dojo in the backyard, etc..)?



Either way you are a tenant at will. There are many pros and cons to both. A lease locks you in to a certain rate (hopefully) for rent. Renting on the other hand does not give you that security. Either way it is a fact of life if you want to run a school commercially. Co-lease is usually referred to as sub-leasing. Some landlords will let you and some won't...it is wise to check with them before entering any agreement with another with the same ambition to teach professionally as you do. A great way to start off is in a gym, health club etc., then expand to your own place once you have made enough capital to open.



> 2) Do you think kids classes are vital to the survival of the school? I've always heard that kids were your "bread and butter," what do you think?



"Vital" is a strong word. I would say "innevitable" is more like it. Parents are always looking for programs to get their children into. (An issue and topic worthy of its own post), nonetheless, the student ratio of children to adults is generally higher in favor of children. 



> 3) Do you have special programs and/or seminars often?



When I taught commercially, I had my instructor in 1 to 2 times a year for a seminar. It was open to all styles and systems of the martial arts. Others that draw attention to your school are seminar guests such as Joe Lewis or Bill Wallace. 



> 4) What's one thing that you've done as an owner that you would take back if you could?



Learned more about the business end of the martial arts prior to opening.
:asian:


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## kenpo3631 (Aug 8, 2002)

> 2. If you really value "real teaching" above money, then kids are not the way to go.



What the heck is "real teaching"???? 

So teaching children how to be more confident or self disciplined, to help them concentrate better, to focus , to be better all round human beings is not "real" teaching??????

Heck I thought that's what the martial arts was all about, whether you were 7 or 70? 

I agree that you can't delve into the intracacies of your art with a 5 year old but you can't do that with a fledgling white belt either, not unless they ask for it, chances are you'll scare them away if you do. 
You mentioned that you go to seminars, why can't you delve into those intracies with those at the seminar or on posting boards such as this? Please, some think that "real teaching" is more than head banging and learning to rip out someones heart out while it is still beating (exaggeration).

The end all be all Rick is this. Whomever you teach, whether it's children, adults or both, never under estimate the power you have over these people to change there lives throught what you  are giving them....Now that's "real teaching".:soapbox:


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## RCastillo (Aug 9, 2002)

> _Originally posted by kenpo3631 _
> 
> *
> 
> ...



Tsk, Tsk, calm down, you'll give yourself a stroke.

I look at real teaching to where you can convey the art to another adult on a logical basis. No,  I don't scare people away, the only ones that leave are the lazy ones.

No, I 'm not into head banging, but I do come here to learn, and ask questions.

No, I do not underestimate anyone , but with 21 years of teaching as an educator/coach, and martial arts, I prefer to teach adults, and not have to deal with the other problem areas. So speaking only for myself, that's what I call real teaching.

To each his own.:asian:


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## KenpoTess (Aug 9, 2002)

There's alot of pro's for having your own school.. Seig and I started ours  with a core group of students from our college Karate classes.  These  kids have been with us since day one and they are the best.  We leased a space and had it built to our specs.  Location is good and near the college for the walkers.  There aren't any other EPAK schools in our area so that's a help as far as competing schools.

We hmmd and hawwed (new word I think  about starting kids classes but finally realized that if we wanted new students we would have to give in and start them.  So far so good.. we have a couple of proteges that are amazing kids.  One is only 4 but his attention span is marvelous and he Wants to be at class.. Not his parent's wanting him to take Martial Arts. (that will make sense to most instructors)
We give everyone a few trial classes and this way we can basically weed out ones that don't want to be there on their own accord (both adults and children) Adults tend to give it a couple of days and either stick with it or call it quits.  Which is fine for us as we don't have to invest alot in them.

We are a young school (open just over a year now) that we haven't had much opportunity for seminars etc.  Though through Shepherd University (Shepherd College, now a University)  we are planning on one this fall.  I think we are one of the very few Accredited EPAK University Courses offered.

There's always something that school owners would change.. though if we did.. we wouldn't be where we are now.  I think Seig and I are especially lucky to have the following we do and our school 

Tess


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## jeffkyle (Aug 9, 2002)

The one major consistent thing i keep reading is everyone saying that it is best to start at a fitness center (or a place like that) when trying to build up a student base......


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## RCastillo (Aug 9, 2002)

> _Originally posted by KenpoTess _
> 
> *There's alot of pro's for having your own school.. Seig and I started ours  with a core group of students from our college Karate classes.  These  kids have been with us since day one and they are the best.  We leased a space and had it built to our specs.  Location is good and near the college for the walkers.  There aren't any other EPAK schools in our area so that's a help as far as competing schools.
> 
> ...



Well, if I had tons of untaxed dough like you guys, I'd have a small empire myself!


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## Kenpo Yahoo (Aug 9, 2002)

How about this, 

what do you see as the best way to advertise your school?  Newspaper ad, Yellow Pages, flyers, billboard, a booth at the mall?  etc...

While I'm not planning to open a school in the near future. In several years I may want to, and it would be nice to have some good advice to lean on.


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## KenpoTess (Aug 9, 2002)

> _Originally posted by RCastillo _
> 
> *
> 
> Well, if I had tons of untaxed dough like you guys, I'd have a small empire myself! *



ahhh Empress Tess has a nice ring to it.. :rofl:


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## Rob_Broad (Aug 9, 2002)

Just like a woman, always wanting another ring. 
:rofl:


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## KenpoTess (Aug 9, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Rob_Broad _
> 
> *Just like a woman, always wanting another ring.
> :rofl: *



*snortles*
hahaha Gee Rob..I despise shopping. .talking on the phone.. I don't like to spend money.. I hate chick flicks or sappy love songs.. I love cooking.. keep a tidy house.. give up the remote without a fight.. sit through Toughman with a smile.. love to spar.. grapple.. can put a dress on without a groan.. not into jewelry.. can fish with the best of em.. and I run a tight ship when it comes to our school 

:boing2:


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## Rob_Broad (Aug 9, 2002)

> _Originally posted by KenpoTess _
> 
> *
> 
> ...



I am just making up for Kirk since he can't be here to infuriate people.


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## kenpochip (Aug 9, 2002)

Has anyone here been able to teach Kenpo as a full time job (over a long period of time)?

Chip


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## ProfessorKenpo (Aug 9, 2002)

> _Originally posted by kenpochip _
> 
> *Has anyone here been able to teach Kenpo as a full time job (over a long period of time)?
> 
> Chip *



Does 7 years qualify as long term?   If so, then yes I have.


Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde


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## kenpochip (Aug 9, 2002)

Clyde,

Yes,  7 years counts as a long period of time.

Are you still teaching the same students, but in a part-time capacity now?


Chip


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## ProfessorKenpo (Aug 9, 2002)

> _Originally posted by kenpochip _
> 
> *Clyde,
> 
> ...



Not the ones I had from my studio.    I definitely had a great location in my town, problem is, I ran thru students like water (seems they all wanted the TKD year &1/2 BB) and the population is under 4000.    I got down to about 40 students before I called it quits, but I was up around 150 when I started.     As I've said before, I'm an instructor, not a babysitter and we train hard.    Most people don't have the motivation to train the way I wanted them to be and I don't run a health club.   If there was no blood on the mats or someone knocked out on sparring day (kids and adults) I didn't have a good day.     I'm also not as business savvy as I should have been, nor do I choose to be.   I kinda like the way I have it now, I train when I like, with who I like,  and have no headaches  from a commercial studio.     Life is good in Kenpoland, and the rabbit hole is a  helluva lot deeper than I thought, and still more to go.     In fact, the TKD studio that opened about 2 years ago is now out of business as of a couple of weeks ago.   I guess this town just won't support it.

Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde


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## RCastillo (Aug 9, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Kenpo Yahoo _
> 
> *How about this,
> 
> ...




Go with a small yp ad, and watch the sales pitch, bigger size, color, then in a year, or 2 later, "Oh, the price is going up, but"..........

Stay with the small ad, period!:asian:


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## RCastillo (Aug 9, 2002)

> _Originally posted by KenpoTess _
> 
> *
> 
> ahhh Empress Tess has a nice ring to it.. :rofl: *



Don't forget "King Seig!"


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## Seig (Aug 10, 2002)

> _Originally posted by RCastillo _
> 
> *
> 
> Don't forget "King Seig!" *


A simple, "Your Excellency" will do.
     Seriously,  if you do not have a lot of capital to invest in your school, the smartest thing to do is start out small.  A health club or some such is a very good way to start your student base.  If you do open your own place, do not overlook the value of a sign above your door.  Word of mouth is great advertising, for a while.  If you want a yellow page ad, the best thing to do on a small budget is to get a commercial phone line.  That gets your name in the yellow pages.  A phone in our school, at the moment is cost prohibitive, so I use my cell phone.  My next step is the seminar, tentatively scheduled for Sept 14.  After that, the phone.  Right after the holidays, I plan on running some ads in a few of the local rags that everyone gets delivered for free.  Most of the schools advertise in it, but the are is spread out enough that we should all be able to use it effectively.  I am also working on plastering the local businesses with flyers and gift certificates.


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## Sigung86 (Aug 10, 2002)

I'm afraid that I don't do the commercial school very well.  Kind of like Clyde in some respects.  I don't like to wus around, and it bothered me a number of times to teach someone just to keep the rent coming in.  

I now teach out of my home... I finally got to a point where it just wasn't worth the battering that a commercial instructor has to take in the long run.  I choose who I wish to teach, and how I wish to teach.  Life is good.  And I generally will take no one under age 14 or 15.  

The last 15 year old student I accepted quit after 4 lessons.  He came to me because he was the son of a friend of my youngest daughter.  I accepted him based on that.  He came from a TKD school, but didn't like it at my place because we didn't have mats down and the concrete was cold on his feet.  (I keep the mats folded in the corner for when we need to do ground work). :lol: :lol: :lol:

I don't have to support dweebiness like that, and don't... Probably because I'm too old, too crusty, and too long in the arts to cater to the McDojo mentality.

I do not charge for my lessons.  The students pay with their time and dedication.  Once they have made the cut and are a full time student, they are free to go if they wish.  I expect to have your full attention in class, and I think that is reasonable.  

I also do not have the desire to teach full time.  I have other interests that take up my time, as well.

Dan


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## RCastillo (Aug 10, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Sigung86 _
> 
> *I'm afraid that I don't do the commercial school very well.  Kind of like Clyde in some respects.  I don't like to wus around, and it bothered me a number of times to teach someone just to keep the rent coming in.
> 
> ...



Will we see you in in Cincy by any chance?


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## Sigung86 (Aug 11, 2002)

'Fraid not Ricardo... Being unemployed ain't all bad, but it ain't all it's cracked up to be money-wise.  Funny ... When I was working, I didn't really have time to travel at all... Now I don't seem to have the liquid capital required....:shrug: 

Funny how life gets in the way sometimes.

Dan


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## jeffkyle (Aug 12, 2002)

> _Originally posted by kenpochip _
> 
> *Has anyone here been able to teach Kenpo as a full time job (over a long period of time)?
> 
> Chip *




Brian Duffy has made a living solely off of his school since 1979.  He just recently started working another job.


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## Michael Billings (Aug 12, 2002)

Brian Duffy has been working in the post office since about 1992.  Prior to that he ran the school full time.  He also is starting to play guitar semi-pro, with all that spare time he has.

I have always had to have a job to support my Karate habit.  I make about as much at the school Tues / Thurs / Sat as I do in my state job (Hearing Analyst.)  Of course with overhead it really is not that much, but I have people to work with, I do take kids 8 yo and up, but encourage the parents to attend the "Family Class."  This keeps retention up.  

I also taught for Mr. Duffy starting off, then out of my garage when I left Austin, then back to his school for a little while when I returned.  Subsequently I went to World Gym for about a year and did a "Self-Defense" class.   Finally had the opportunity to sub-let from a JKD Guru, Ray Parra and for the past 5 years have taught in the same facility, splitting time equally.

Hard row to hoe.  Insurance, retirement, medical insurance, vacations ....  there are a lot of things to consider opening your own school and operating successfully.  Maintaining your enthusiasm over the decades, not for the Art, but for the students may be one of the hardest things.  We all love Kenpo, but a lot of the truely BIG successful schools teach the McDonalds quick meal.  They have to have the influx of new people to keep the school going.  Comprimise to a marketable Art is considered paramount.

John Sepulveda was in this weekend and told us about a Kenpo instructor teaching Joon-Rhee Taekwondo for marketing purposes through green.  Then he starts them on Kenpo.  A huge success story, but one I do not have the time, energy, or interest in emulating.  

Small does not always = quality, but if you are huge, quality control is one of the issues you have to address.  Guess I will never have that worry.

So long as it is still fun guys, I guess I will keep on keepin' the Kenpo faith.

-Michael
UKS-Texas


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## MinnieMin (Aug 16, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Kenpo Yahoo _
> 
> *How about this,
> 
> ...



Hi Kenpo Yahoo,
I'm thinking if you want to know the best way to advertise your school (in the near future), the simple but effective way is to ask the members here in the MaratialTalk how do they find their schools or teachers.  You will find many ideas from your NEXT post. 

Just a thought. 
Min :asian:


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