# Going to China for Kung Fu?



## toffee1234 (Mar 23, 2018)

Hello Everyone,

I am new here and this is my first post. Nice to meet you all! So for the past 6 months I have firmly decided to go to China for 6 months training but there are so many school, each claiming to be the best and the largest authentic school. Could you please guide me which is the best and authentic one since I have intentions to get full professional training but first I'll start with 6 months training. Thanks!
1. Shaolin Kung Fu Academy - Learn Kung Fu in Shaolin Temple Wushu School China
2. Original Shaolin Temple - kungfushaolins
3. shaolin temple academy,china gong fu,wushu,chinese kung fu, Martial Arts Academy , Qi Gong, Tai Ji, Xing Yi, Ba Gua, Tang Lang (Praying Mantis), San Da, chinashailins.com, chinashaolinskungfu.com, shalins.com,  wwe Wrestling Learn, k1 Training,
4. Songshan Shaolin Temple Wushu Academy
5.Shaolin Tagou Martial Arts School | Learn Kung Fu in China

So 1 and 5 both claim to be the largest schools. Which one should I choose?

Kind Regards.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Mar 23, 2018)

Try to stay away from the Shaolin system. It becomes water down modern Wushu dancing today.

You may try:

1. Chen Taiji,
2. XingYi Liu He,
3. Baji,
4. Preying mantis,
5. Shuai Jiao.

1, 2, 3 are good in power generation. 4 is good in speed generation. 5 is good in wrestling art.


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## JowGaWolf (Mar 23, 2018)

It depends on your purpose for the martial arts that you train.  Do you want to want to use it for self-defense or do you want to just learn the forms and be fit?  Base your choice on your purpose of your training.


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## toffee1234 (Mar 24, 2018)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> Try to stay away from the Shaolin system. It becomes water down modern Wushu dancing today.
> 
> You may try:
> 
> ...


Thank you so much. Didn't know about these before! But I was also interested in Kung Fu and Taekwondo. The weapons especially the swords in Kung Fu and long kicks of Taekwondo. Watching videos of these two inspired me a lot which made me want to go to Shaolin. But I will also search on the ones you have mentioned! Thank you again!


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## toffee1234 (Mar 24, 2018)

JowGaWolf said:


> It depends on your purpose for the martial arts that you train.  Do you want to want to use it for self-defense or do you want to just learn the forms and be fit?  Base your choice on your purpose of your training.


Both. But actually becoming a Martial Artist has been a dream for many years. I would especially love to learn sword fighting.


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## hoshin1600 (Mar 24, 2018)

My advise is to train where ever you are at now if you never trained martial arts before. I don't mean dont go to China but get a good education in kung fu where you are at before you go.  There can be a very steep learning curve in the beginning.  You would do better if you had the basics and good body controll before you travel. It would be a waste to travel to China just to have the master teach you how to stand up properly.  Better to already know the basics so you can really absorb the good stuff. I would also want to know the language to a certain degree.


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## Headhunter (Mar 24, 2018)

No such thing as a best school


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## WaterGal (Mar 26, 2018)

How much experience in kung fu do you have now?  If you have a few years of experience, you'll probably get a lot more of something like this than if you're a beginner.


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## Xue Sheng (Mar 26, 2018)

toffee1234 said:


> Thank you so much. Didn't know about these before! But I was also interested in Kung Fu and Taekwondo. The weapons especially the swords in Kung Fu and long kicks of Taekwondo. Watching videos of these two inspired me a lot which made me want to go to Shaolin. But I will also search on the ones you have mentioned! Thank you again!



Kung Fu us a container, it is not a style. This is a list of all the styles of Chinese martial arts that fall under the label of Kung Fu

List of Chinese martial arts

As far as the Shaolin schools. What are you actually going to learn, what is the curriculum? Do you speak at least Mandarin? Are they going to teach you Mandarin? What  happens if you get sick and need a doctor? What happens if you get injured and you are unable to continue training? Do you get your money back, or at least part of it? What about food, lodging, sanitary conditions, water?

I do not want to dash your dreams of training in China or at Shaolin, You could also train in a similar fashion at Wudang and Chenjiagou (Chen family taijiquan). But, understand all of the major Shaolin Schools, Wudang and even Chenjiagou to some extent are government controlled. You can also do a similar type of training in Wing Chun in Hong Kong, in Yiquan in Beijing and in multiple styles at the Beijing Milun School and they are subject to less government control.

Also studying martial arts in China is big-time "Buyer beware" The label of Shaolin may or may not actually be Shaolin, There is an awful lot of cheating of foreigners going on in China these days.


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## Flying Crane (Mar 26, 2018)

Xue Sheng said:


> Kung Fu us a container, it is not a style. This is a list of all the styles of Chinese martial arts that fall under the label of Kung Fu
> 
> List of Chinese martial arts
> 
> ...


And to add to this, these government run schools are not teaching the traditional fighting systems of kung Fu.  Instead, they are teaching Modern Wushu, which is a government sanctioned performance and competition system that is based on the old systems but is no longer viable as a combat method.  These people are outstanding athletes, they work really hard, but it is more like a gymnastics floor routine, with a kung Fu flavor.

You can find plenty of Modern Wushu, as well as traditional kung Fu, without needing to go to China.


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## Xue Sheng (Mar 26, 2018)

Also looking at the links. anything that says "Authentic Shaolin Kung Fu training" and then lists styles like Xingyiquan, Baguazhang, Taijiquan, is already lying to  you. Those do not come form Shaolin. But then neither does Sanda which is taught at most "Shaolin Academies"

If your heart is set on Shaolin there are people outside of China that could train you, or at least point  you in the right direction. I know none of them personally and I have only talks with one online. But they are from Shaolin

Shifu Shi Yan-Ming > USA NYC

Shifu Yan Lei > England

Shifu Shi Guo Song > Toronto Canada

If they would talk to you they would likely be able to give you more info as to what school to look at


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## Flying Crane (Mar 26, 2018)

Xue Sheng said:


> Also looking at the links. anything that says "Authentic Shaolin Kung Fu training" and then lists styles like Xingyiquan, Baguazhang, Taijiquan, is already lying to  you. Those do not come form Shaolin. But then neither does Sanda which is taught at most "Shaolin Academies"
> 
> If your heart is set on Shaolin there are people outside of China that could train you, or at least point  you in the right direction. I know none of them personally and I have only talks with one online. But they are from Shaolin
> 
> ...


There are also a lot of sifu who are from lineages long established outside of China.  They themselves may not be from China or from Shaolin Temple, but they know the real stuff and can teach it.

Look for things like Jing Wu in places outside of China.


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## Xue Sheng (Mar 26, 2018)

Flying Crane said:


> There are also a lot of sifu who are from lineages long established outside of China.  They themselves may not be from China or from Shaolin Temple, but they know the real stuff and can teach it.
> 
> Look for things like Jing Wu in places outside of China.



Yup. There is a guy near me that is incredibly good at modern Wushu, he did train in China, but at a physical education university. He is also incredibly good at Sanda too. And frankly I would recommend someone like him, right here in the USA over traveling to China for Shaolin.

 However you are absolutely correct, there is a lot more to Chinese Marital Arts than Shaolin and almost all are by far much more traditional than Shaolin. Heck, in China, Wudang is more traditional than Shaolin, but then they are rather new to the Government controlled thing. . But the 1 guy I know of that is from Wudang and teaches Xingyiquan is rather amazing at Xingyiquan and actually knows how to use it, rather well.


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## toffee1234 (Mar 29, 2018)

hoshin1600 said:


> My advise is to train where ever you are at now if you never trained martial arts before. I don't mean dont go to China but get a good education in kung fu where you are at before you go.  There can be a very steep learning curve in the beginning.  You would do better if you had the basics and good body controll before you travel. It would be a waste to travel to China just to have the master teach you how to stand up properly.  Better to already know the basics so you can really absorb the good stuff. I would also want to know the language to a certain degree.





hoshin1600 said:


> My advise is to train where ever you are at now if you never trained martial arts before. I don't mean dont go to China but get a good education in kung fu where you are at before you go.  There can be a very steep learning curve in the beginning.  You would do better if you had the basics and good body controll before you travel. It would be a waste to travel to China just to have the master teach you how to stand up properly.  Better to already know the basics so you can really absorb the good stuff. I would also want to know the language to a certain degree.



Thats a great advice! Thanks! Actually I have never had martial arts training before. So I'll look for an online school.


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## toffee1234 (Mar 29, 2018)

Xue Sheng said:


> Kung Fu us a container, it is not a style. This is a list of all the styles of Chinese martial arts that fall under the label of Kung Fu
> 
> List of Chinese martial arts
> 
> ...


Thank you so much. It is really helpful. I have found one on Wing Chun in Hong Kong. It was on Wikipedia page of Ip Chun and I will contact them soon:

詠春葉準學會 -

Previously I have been contacting Shaolin Tagou but when I wrote to them to send me invitation letter so that I could send fee in advance (On their website it says to send half money in advance). They suddenly stopped replying back. Because the state bank of my country accepts to transfer huge amount only if admission evidence of the institution where applying is given) But before that the school was replying to my queries everyday.


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## toffee1234 (Mar 29, 2018)

Flying Crane said:


> And to add to this, these government run schools are not teaching the traditional fighting systems of kung Fu.  Instead, they are teaching Modern Wushu, which is a government sanctioned performance and competition system that is based on the old systems but is no longer viable as a combat method.  These people are outstanding athletes, they work really hard, but it is more like a gymnastics floor routine, with a kung Fu flavor.
> 
> You can find plenty of Modern Wushu, as well as traditional kung Fu, without needing to go to China.


I don't have any traditional Kung Fu training where I live so I thought about going to China. But after reading many good advices from the members of this forum, I have given up the idea of going to Shaolin but instead I'll look into Hong Kong.


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## Martial D (Mar 29, 2018)

Headhunter said:


> No such thing as a best school



Best school

Not available in China


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## WaterGal (Mar 29, 2018)

I think you should train in whatever is available where you live. Then you can get started right away, and you don't have to save up a ton of money to support yourself in Hong Kong.


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## Martial D (Mar 29, 2018)

WaterGal said:


> I think you should train in whatever is available where you live. Then you can get started right away, and you don't have to save up a ton of money to support yourself in Hong Kong.


To be honest, this is good advice. Aside from the romanticism of training where the original masters did, you really won't find anything (publicly available) that you won't find here, and better.


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## Xue Sheng (Mar 30, 2018)

toffee1234 said:


> Thank you so much. It is really helpful. I have found one on Wing Chun in Hong Kong. It was on Wikipedia page of Ip Chun and I will contact them soon:
> 
> 詠春葉準學會 -
> 
> Previously I have been contacting Shaolin Tagou but when I wrote to them to send me invitation letter so that I could send fee in advance (On their website it says to send half money in advance). They suddenly stopped replying back. Because the state bank of my country accepts to transfer huge amount only if admission evidence of the institution where applying is given) But before that the school was replying to my queries everyday.



There is an academy in Hong Kong run by Ip Man students that has lodging there as well. I will see if I can find it and post it for you. 

And Money first, even half the money, in China.....be careful. They are in China and can quickly vanish never to be heard from again..... stick with the big, well established, schools if you are set on doing this.


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## DanT (Mar 30, 2018)

Traditional Shaolin Quan is very rare. I have the fortune of being able to learn it from my sifu. I don't know more than a handful of true Traditional Shaolin Quan masters.

Traditional Shaolin is a lifestyle alongside a martial art. The Martial art aspect is a complex art of 18 weapons and a complete fighting system covering all ranges of combat including grappling. You will learn to use not only your body as a weapon, but also 18 weapons. You are expected to master these weapons. 

This is a big commitment to a big curriculum. It takes on average 10-15 years to complete the system if you are training full time.


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## DanT (Mar 30, 2018)

Most of the schools you'll find are garbage regardless of where you go, so good luck to you.


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## toffee1234 (Mar 30, 2018)

Xue Sheng said:


> There is an academy in Hong Kong run by Ip Man students that has lodging there as well. I will see if I can find it and post it for you.
> 
> And Money first, even half the money, in China.....be careful. They are in China and can quickly vanish never to be heard from again..... stick with the big, well established, schools if you are set on doing this.


Yes, please! I will be really grateful!


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## Xue Sheng (Mar 30, 2018)

This info came from here  emprty minds Wing Chun a documentary

I believe this is the place I was talking about that has the Wing Chun school and a hostel to stay in

The below quote is from Kung Fu Tea

Wing Chun: A Documentary” directed by Jon Braeley.



> Master Sam Lau’s Wing Chun school and hostel on Nathan Road at the tip of Kowloon.
> 
> Master Sam Lau’s Wing Chun school and hostel on Nathan Road at the tip of Kowloon.  I was pretty impressed with what I saw here.  Most of the students were visitors, only staying for a month or so to take Master Lau’s “intensive” course.  That fact not withstanding he had them engaged in serious Chi Sao and everyone the camera turned to looked pretty solid.  Clearly they weren’t all experts, but they were working hard, their energy was good and you could just feel the intensity in the room.



Milun Kung Fu School - Beijing

Yiquan Beijing


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## JR 137 (Apr 1, 2018)

toffee1234 said:


> Thats a great advice! Thanks! Actually I have never had martial arts training before. So I'll look for an online school.


What do you have available to you locally?  I’d start searching what’s available to you, then start looking to go abroad after you’ve got a bit of experience with it.

I’m not trying to sound mean, but it’s highly likely you have a romanticized view of what true MA training is really like.  Let’s just say you find a truly authentic school that’s not running a version of the Nigerian scam like the one who wanted your money but stopped talking to you after they knew they couldn’t get it.  Let’s say you find a school that’s “the real deal.”  Bruce Lee trainer there along with Shaolin Monks, yadda yadda yadda. What if you quickly find out that this whole martial arts thing sucks?  Movies and stories paint quite a pretty picture.  Those pictures aren’t real life.

Find a local school that’s a good fit for you.  Hopefully it’ll be one that has direct ties to China, Japan, Okinawa, Korea, etc.  If so, you’d have a place you can easily find and train there at the right time.  For instance, if you found a Judo school locally, you could train there for a while and look to visit and train at the Kodokan in Japan when the time’s right.  Same for many styles of karate or TKD that have international organizations.

I train in Seido karate.  The headquarters dojo is in NYC about 3 hours away from me.  There are dojos on every continent except Antarctica.  If I take a trip to Japan, South Africa, Australia, and on and on, I could send an email and ask to stop by for some training while I’m there.  All it would take really is a confirmation email or call from my teacher as a courtesy.

MA and MA training has been highly romanticized in movies.  So has practically everything else.  Don’t fall for the hype.  It’s nothing like the movies portray it.  I love training MA, but TV and reality are two different things.


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## Martial D (Apr 1, 2018)

JR 137 said:


> What do you have available to you locally?  I’d start searching what’s available to you, then start looking to go abroad after you’ve got a bit of experience with it.
> ...
> 
> MA and MA training has been highly romanticized in movies.  So has practically everything else.  Don’t fall for the hype.  It’s nothing like the movies portray it.  I love training MA, but TV and reality are two different things.


Sound, Sage advice.

There is a reason over half of first day students never become second day students.


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## Headhunter (Apr 1, 2018)

JR 137 said:


> What do you have available to you locally?  I’d start searching what’s available to you, then start looking to go abroad after you’ve got a bit of experience with it.
> 
> I’m not trying to sound mean, but it’s highly likely you have a romanticized view of what true MA training is really like.  Let’s just say you find a truly authentic school that’s not running a version of the Nigerian scam like the one who wanted your money but stopped talking to you after they knew they couldn’t get it.  Let’s say you find a school that’s “the real deal.”  Bruce Lee trainer there along with Shaolin Monks, yadda yadda yadda. What if you quickly find out that this whole martial arts thing sucks?  Movies and stories paint quite a pretty picture.  Those pictures aren’t real life.
> 
> ...


Yep have to agree with that. My old instructor had a story about going over to America to train in kenpo for a while. Before he went over he thought those guys would be so much better because it's in America a different country they're closer to the source (ed Parker who was alive then) and he thought those guys would be amazing but he saw when he got there it was no better than what they were doing in England


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## Headhunter (Apr 1, 2018)

JR 137 said:


> What do you have available to you locally?  I’d start searching what’s available to you, then start looking to go abroad after you’ve got a bit of experience with it.
> 
> I’m not trying to sound mean, but it’s highly likely you have a romanticized view of what true MA training is really like.  Let’s just say you find a truly authentic school that’s not running a version of the Nigerian scam like the one who wanted your money but stopped talking to you after they knew they couldn’t get it.  Let’s say you find a school that’s “the real deal.”  Bruce Lee trainer there along with Shaolin Monks, yadda yadda yadda. What if you quickly find out that this whole martial arts thing sucks?  Movies and stories paint quite a pretty picture.  Those pictures aren’t real life.
> 
> ...


Also to add at the end of the day China or wherever isn't perfect either. There's good and bad martial art schools in every single country. I actually believe the west has it better because there's a huge range of styles available so it gives more perspective and different types of training partner than some countries who only have a few styles. I first heard that in an interview withphilip rhee when talking about moving from Korea to America


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## JR 137 (Apr 1, 2018)

Headhunter said:


> Yep have to agree with that. My old instructor had a story about going over to America to train in kenpo for a while. Before he went over he thought those guys would be so much better because it's in America a different country they're closer to the source (ed Parker who was alive then) and he thought those guys would be amazing but he saw when he got there it was no better than what they were doing in England


It all depends on the individual.  Like you said, there’s good and bad.  Being in a certain place doesn’t inherently make someone there better than everyone everywhere else.  You may find a better concentration of great practitioners in one area, but that doesn’t mean much in the grand scheme of things.  Not just MA, but everything.

My mother needed a kidney transplant a few years ago.  She went with a surgeon in NYC, about 3 hours away from us.  She didn’t go to him because he was anybody in NYC, she went to him specifically because she thought he was the best.  Family members had this mentality of NYC doctors are so much better than the ones in our area. I just shook my head and said I’m sure there’s no shortage of hacks in NYC too.  That guy’s one of the best, but he’d be just as good if he was anywhere else.

Same for an MA teacher.  It’s not like the worst kung fu teacher in China is better than the best teacher anywhere else.  Japan’s worst judo teacher isn’t going to be better than every other teacher outside of Japan just because he’s in the birthplace of judo.  There’s a judo teacher not too far away from me who was an Olympic silver medalist, and coached several USA Olympic teams.  I highly doubt every single teacher in Japan is better than him.


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## toffee1234 (Apr 3, 2018)

DanT said:


> Traditional Shaolin Quan is very rare. I have the fortune of being able to learn it from my sifu. I don't know more than a handful of true Traditional Shaolin Quan masters.
> 
> Traditional Shaolin is a lifestyle alongside a martial art. The Martial art aspect is a complex art of 18 weapons and a complete fighting system covering all ranges of combat including grappling. You will learn to use not only your body as a weapon, but also 18 weapons. You are expected to master these weapons.
> 
> This is a big commitment to a big curriculum. It takes on average 10-15 years to complete the system if you are training full time.


Very informative post, Sir! Thank you! I guess it all depends upon the luck if you can find a good teacher. Are monks at Shaolin Temple are real time fighters or is it just a myth? Because I HAVE read somewhere they teach MA to interested people as well. There is a Kung Fu motivational video on youtube and below is their website which offers many courses. However, some schools even claim to be located inside the temple. I don't know if its true or not.


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## toffee1234 (Apr 3, 2018)

Xue Sheng said:


> This info came from here  emprty minds Wing Chun a documentary
> 
> I believe this is the place I was talking about that has the Wing Chun school and a hostel to stay in
> 
> ...


Thank you so much, Sir!


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## Flying Crane (Apr 3, 2018)

toffee1234 said:


> Very informative post, Sir! Thank you! I guess it all depends upon the luck if you can find a good teacher. Are monks at Shaolin Temple are real time fighters or is it just a myth? Because I HAVE read somewhere they teach MA to interested people as well. There is a Kung Fu motivational video on youtube and below is their website which offers many courses. However, some schools even claim to be located inside the temple. I don't know if its true or not.


The “monks” are typically teaching government sanctioned Modern Wushu.


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## Xue Sheng (Apr 3, 2018)

toffee1234 said:


> Very informative post, Sir! Thank you! I guess it all depends upon the luck if you can find a good teacher. Are monks at Shaolin Temple are real time fighters or is it just a myth? Because I HAVE read somewhere they teach MA to interested people as well. There is a Kung Fu motivational video on youtube and below is their website which offers many courses. However, some schools even claim to be located inside the temple. I don't know if its true or not.





Flying Crane said:


> The “monks” are typically teaching government sanctioned Modern Wushu.



Yes and they also teach completion Sanda (Sanshou), and you can get the same in virtually any of the Physical Fitness Colleges in China..just without the saffron robes and Buddhist influences.


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## donald1 (Apr 3, 2018)

I also recommend looking for a local school. What happens when your six months of training ends? Does your interest in Kung Fu end then and there? I certainly hope not. Your probably gonna want a place to train regularly. So you don't forget what you've learned.


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## JR 137 (Apr 3, 2018)

donald1 said:


> I also recommend looking for a local school. What happens when your six months of training ends? Does your interest in Kung Fu end then and there? I certainly hope not. Your probably gonna want a place to train regularly. So you don't forget what you've learned.


Let’s suspend reality for a second and say he’s accepted as a live-in Kung fu monk and does the walk down the hallway were he goes through arrows shot at him, sword wielding masters trying to cut his head off, etc., and finishes by picking up the red-hot calderon which burns the dragon on one forearm and the tiger on the other forearm...

Training in China for 6 months under those conditions isn’t going to make anyone a master, make anyone qualified to teach, nor make someone so good that they’ll never need any instruction ever again.  It’ll take longer than that for them to even remember your name.  Especially true for someone who has zero MA experience going in.


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## donald1 (Apr 3, 2018)

JR 137 said:


> Let’s suspend reality for a second and say he’s accepted as a live-in Kung fu monk and does the walk down the hallway were he goes through arrows shot at him, sword wielding masters trying to cut his head off, etc., and finishes by picking up the red-hot calderon which burns the dragon on one forearm and the tiger on the other forearm...
> 
> Training in China for 6 months under those conditions isn’t going to make anyone a master, make anyone qualified to teach, nor make someone so good that they’ll never need any instruction ever again.  It’ll take longer than that for them to even remember your name.  Especially true for someone who has zero MA experience going in.


Unless you're the chosen one


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## j.ouellet23 (Jul 27, 2018)

This thread is actually pretty helpful, is there anyway that we can save it and have people add to it with schools they have been to and with small reviews?


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## FriedRice (Jul 28, 2018)

toffee1234 said:


> Hello Everyone,
> 
> I am new here and this is my first post. Nice to meet you all! So for the past 6 months I have firmly decided to go to China for 6 months training but there are so many school, each claiming to be the best and the largest authentic school. Could you please guide me which is the best and authentic one since I have intentions to get full professional training but first I'll start with 6 months training. Thanks!
> 1. Shaolin Kung Fu Academy - Learn Kung Fu in Shaolin Temple Wushu School China
> ...



If you train at Shaolin, then those aren't real Shaolin Monks. They're just the Chinese Wushu team, teaching. The Chinese Cultural Revolution of 1966 put an end to all that. The Shaolin Temple is just like Chinese Disneyland now, opened up for tourists....selling more junk made in China. Ironically though, those Wushu fighters are more legit as fighters than the real Shaolin monks. Real Shaolin Monks are probably nothing like those movies, all BS. They probably fought like crap, while the Wushu Team can fight.  I bet that they even modeled the reopened Shaolin Temple after those Run Run Shaw movies of the 1980's. 

This White guy, who runs an MMA gym in China, says that many of the Kung-Fu schools being taught in China, are taught by White and Black dudes, LOL. That sounds about right. 






One of my Muay Thai friend did go train at Shaolin, and he said it was a great experience though. He went through the whole shabang of paying for the whole room/board, etc. package.  It wasn't cheap. Hell, I think you should do it....but for the fun factor and not think that they're going to teach you something that dudes in America can't and/or don't know about.


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## Finlay (Jul 30, 2018)

I stumbled about china for a few years studying with a few giod teachera and some not so good.

Did shaolin in dengfeng for a while. Not over impressed but if that is yohr thing then it is a good place to learn.

Found some taiji amd bagua guys with a solid lineage but took some time and i had to learn mandarin.


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## hoshin1600 (Jul 30, 2018)

if i were to go (which im not)  i would go down south Fuzhou area.  there are still some old school martial arts there.  i have heard that the Hakka arts are the heir's to the shaolin temple arts.  but you probably find it difficult to get someone to teach you.


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## Xue Sheng (Jul 30, 2018)

hoshin1600 said:


> if i were to go (which im not)  i would go down south Fuzhou area.  there are still some old school martial arts there.  i have heard that the Hakka arts are the heir's to the shaolin temple arts.  but you probably find it difficult to get someone to teach you.



Still some good in the North too, they are just hard to find, because they don't advertise and they appear to like it that way.


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## mrt2 (Jul 30, 2018)

JR 137 said:


> Let’s suspend reality for a second and say he’s accepted as a live-in Kung fu monk and does the walk down the hallway were he goes through arrows shot at him, sword wielding masters trying to cut his head off, etc., and finishes by picking up the red-hot calderon which burns the dragon on one forearm and the tiger on the other forearm...
> 
> *Training in China for 6 months under those conditions isn’t going to make anyone a master*, make anyone qualified to teach, nor make someone so good that they’ll never need any instruction ever again.  It’ll take longer than that for them to even remember your name.  Especially true for someone who has zero MA experience going in.


For real.  How much can you learn in 6 months if you are a total beginner?  How many hours of training per week before you you overtrain and/or burn out?  I am wondering if OP has been watching too many movies, where a relatively untrained individual trains intensively with a wise old master for a few months, then beats far more experienced martial artists in battle, or competition.

Going to China to train Kung Fu as an untrained individual is a truly terrible idea.


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## Headhunter (Jul 30, 2018)

mrt2 said:


> For real.  How much can you learn in 6 months if you are a total beginner?  How many hours of training per week before you you overtrain and/or burn out?  I am wondering if OP has been watching too many movies, where a relatively untrained individual trains intensively with a wise old master for a few months, then beats far more experienced martial artists in battle, or competition.
> 
> Going to China to train Kung Fu as an untrained individual is a truly terrible idea.


It's not a terrible idea as long as he realises he won't be an expert when he gets back


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## hoshin1600 (Jul 30, 2018)

mrt2 said:


> Going to China to train Kung Fu as an untrained individual is a truly terrible idea.


its not a terrible idea.  would he be better off with some experience?   yes.  but the benefit regardless is in the experience itself of going there.  its something you will never forget.


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## Finlay (Jul 30, 2018)

Again it depends what you want.

I was there for a long time and saw a lot of stuff. Some good and some bad.

If i had my time over again i woukd do somethig differently

One woukd be to know more mandarin before going and maybe experince chinese styles a little so i was familiar woth the teaching method.

Alot of the 'good' stuff is away from the big cities so there is that to consider as well


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## JR 137 (Jul 30, 2018)

mrt2 said:


> For real.  How much can you learn in 6 months if you are a total beginner?  How many hours of training per week before you you overtrain and/or burn out?  I am wondering if OP has been watching too many movies, where a relatively untrained individual trains intensively with a wise old master for a few months, then beats far more experienced martial artists in battle, or competition.
> 
> Going to China to train Kung Fu as an untrained individual is a truly terrible idea.


Like the previous guys, I don’t think it’s truly a terrible idea.  But I don’t think it’s the smartest move if his focus is intensive training.  It would be far better going after several years of experience rather than starting from scratch.

There’s a gentleman who coordinates trips to Okinawa for karate training.  If I were to go, I’d feel I’d be best served by having at least a 2nd dan beforehand.  I’d use it to get a new perspective on training, address weaknesses in myself and/or curriculum, etc.  I certainly wouldn’t go without knowing anything about karate.  But that’s my focus.  It wouldn’t be a terrible thing if I wanted to go to Okinawa regardless, and decided that I might as well try some karate while I’m there even though I’ve never stepped foot in a dojo.


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## Xue Sheng (Jul 30, 2018)

JR 137 said:


> Like the previous guys, I don’t think it’s truly a terrible idea.  But I don’t think it’s the smartest move if his focus is intensive training.  It would be far better going after several years of experience rather than starting from scratch.
> 
> There’s a gentleman who coordinates trips to Okinawa for karate training.  If I were to go, I’d feel I’d be best served by having at least a 2nd dan beforehand.  I’d use it to get a new perspective on training, address weaknesses in myself and/or curriculum, etc.  I certainly wouldn’t go without knowing anything about karate.  But that’s my focus.  It wouldn’t be a terrible thing if I wanted to go to Okinawa regardless, and decided that I might as well try some karate while I’m there even though I’ve never stepped foot in a dojo.



 Agreed, but previous training in China can sometimes work against you, possibly in kind of a positive way. My in-laws were trying to set up push hands training for me and they found a guy who was supposedly awesome, or at least that was the impression he gave them. He had tons of push hands experience and was more than happy to meet and train an American...for a fee. That is when he asked if I had any experience and they said yes, he has been training taijiquan for many years and is in the Tung Ying Chieh lineage...he then said he didn't know push hands that well and that is the last they saw of him.

Could be he was fake and looking to make a quick buck of an American, could be that he was actually good and just did not want to deal with a person who may be set in his ways and not willing to change (the whole full cup empty cup thing) frankly I think it was the quick buck thing.

But with that said, show up in China wither experience in the art you want to train is a good thing. Showing up expecting any special treatment or thinking they care is not going to get you anywhere at all.


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## JowGaWolf (Jul 30, 2018)

Xue Sheng said:


> they are just hard to find, because they don't advertise and they appear to like it that way.





mrt2 said:


> For real. How much can you learn in 6 months if you are a total beginner?


It depends on your goal.   If you just want to learn forms then that's doable. It only takes a long time to understand how to actually use the techniques in an actual fight.  That takes a considerable amount of time.


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## JowGaWolf (Jul 30, 2018)

Xue Sheng said:


> That is when he asked if I had any experience and they said yes, he has been training taijiquan for many years and is in the Tung Ying Chieh lineage...he then said he didn't know push hands that well and that is the last they saw of him.
> 
> Could be he was fake and looking to make a quick buck of an American, could be that he was actually good and just did not want to deal with a person who may be set in his ways and not willing to change (the whole full cup empty cup thing) frankly I think it was the quick buck thing.


sounds like a quick buck story to me as well.   Either that or he didn't know as much as he claimed and someone with knowledge would have seen through that in heart beat.  Because of the experience I have in martial arts, I'm more likely "to call BS" on stuff faster than a student who didn't know anything.  Show me a person sparring, and I'll call it even faster.


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## Bruce7 (Nov 27, 2018)

The Chinese government started Wushu to have control of Kung Fu. So most of the masters left China. When I was in the navy I was station in Guam in the 1970's. There was a tall Chinese man who could not speak English, but taught Kung Fu, I guess it was long fist because we mostly train in kicking. He push me harder than any of my instructor, I think he enjoy my pain. I did not like him but respected him as one my best instructors.

If you want to train in Kung Fu my suggest is to find an instructor who was taught by one these masters who left China when the government started Wushu.


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## JowGaWolf (Nov 27, 2018)

Bruce7 said:


> If you want to train in Kung Fu my suggest is to find an instructor who was taught by one these masters who left China when the government started Wushu.


Interesting that you have this story.   I have heard a couple of times, "If you want to learn Kung Fu for fighting then don't go to China."


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## Xue Sheng (Nov 28, 2018)

Bruce7 said:


> The Chinese government started Wushu to have control of Kung Fu. So most of the masters left China. When I was in the navy I was station in Guam in the 1970's. There was a tall Chinese man who could not speak English, but taught Kung Fu, I guess it was long fist because we mostly train in kicking. He push me harder than any of my instructor, I think he enjoy my pain. I did not like him but respected him as one my best instructors.
> 
> If you want to train in Kung Fu my suggest is to find an instructor who was taught by one these masters who left China when the government started Wushu.



My first Chinese Shifu, in America, once told me it was harder to teach students in America.... I asked why...he said...."Because I can't beat them"


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## Xue Sheng (Nov 28, 2018)

JowGaWolf said:


> Interesting that you have this story.   I have heard a couple of times, "If you want to learn Kung Fu for fighting then don't go to China."



There are some teachers there that will teach you how to fight using their style, but they are few and far between and hard to find, because they are not advertising much, if at all. Most of the "fighting" you will learn in China is Sanshou/Sanda.

A few years back there was still a Zhaobao teacher (Taijiquan), I believe in Shanghai, who was still taking challenges.


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## Bruce7 (Nov 28, 2018)

Xue Sheng said:


> My first Chinese Shifu, in America, once told me it was harder to teach students in America.... I asked why...he said...."Because I can't beat them"



My shifu was amazing and I respected him even though he was to mean to me. I thought because I had a fast snap punch and side kick I might surprise my master. Most of the Kung Fu kicks are the same as taekwondo except the side kick. The taekwondo kick is more powerful, but the Kung fu side kick may setup a little faster. Any way my favorite technique was to do a snap punch at the face to setup my next move, then do the same snap punch and when the punch is blocked  grab the arm above the wrist lean back and do aside kick to the ribs. This had always work on some one the first time we spar. I just knew I was going to get to kick him hard. When I did the snap punch he slip it like a boxer and kick me in the face. Then I thought I am fast and he has never seen a taekwondo side kick so I shorten the distance by bring my back left foot up crossed behind and in front of my right foot to position for my side kick. He circle to my right slipping my side kick and the sweep my back leg with a kick to back of my knee. Thank goodness for the matted floor because I hit the floor hard. They were about the same age, I use to dream about my master and Jack Hwang sparing. My master was much taller with greater reach and seem to know how to handle a taekwondo attack, but Jack Hwang was faster and I just know he would win.


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## Xue Sheng (Nov 28, 2018)

Bruce7 said:


> My shifu was amazing and I respected him even though he was to mean to me. I thought because I had a fast snap punch and side kick I might surprise my master. Most of the Kung Fu kicks are the same as taekwondo except the side kick. The taekwondo kick is more powerful, but the Kung fu side kick may setup a little faster. Any way my favorite technique was to do a snap punch at the face to setup my next move, then do the same snap punch and when the punch is blocked  grab the arm above the wrist lean back and do aside kick to the ribs. This had always work on some one the first time we spar. I just knew I was going to get to kick him hard. When I did the snap punch he slip it like a boxer and kick me in the face. Then I thought I am fast and he has never seen a taekwondo side kick so I shorten the distance by bring my back left foot up crossed behind and in front of my right foot to position for my side kick. He circle to my right slipping my side kick and the sweep my back leg with a kick to back of my knee. Thank goodness for the matted floor because I hit the floor hard. They were about the same age, I use to dream about my master and Jack Hwang sparing. My master was much taller with greater reach and seem to know how to handle a taekwondo attack, but Jack Hwang was faster and I just know he would win.



Spared one of my Xingyiquan Shifus once.... he told me while sparing "If I don't get hit, I don't feel like I am sparring" so I hit him...twice...he proceeded to beat the living daylights out of me.....and it is here where I prove marital artists are all crazy...most would be upset by that... my very first thought and the very first thing I said was "That was cool"


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