# What would you do?



## Loki (Jun 15, 2005)

The following story happened to me when I was sixteen, one week before I took up martial arts. It's also the main reason I joined:

I was walking out of the theater with a friend after midnight, when the mall it's in is closed and they usher you outside right away. Israel issues driving licenses at 17, so we were waiting for my dad to pick us up, when this kid (he was probably thirteen or so) walks right past me with his friend and says "what's up?". Thinking he's just kidding around, I say "all's good" when he slaps me. He then turns and proceeds towards my friend. I call out to warn him, but he slaps him as well. He then pulls out a Swiss army knife and swings it around a bit. He then pretends to stab me with it, just after folding the blade inwards. His friend finds all this pretty funny. We don't. Not really knowing what to do when confronted by some prick with a knife, we just stand their like idiots, taking abuse until he grows tired and leaves.

My question is, what would you have done in my place at the age of 16 (before you started MA if you started before), and what would you have do if this happens today?


----------



## arnisador (Jun 15, 2005)

Get out of there, then and now. Why risk death or injury because some imbecile has a knife and a bad attitude?


----------



## Floating Egg (Jun 15, 2005)

Yeah, I would have left immediately.


----------



## Brad Dunne (Jun 15, 2005)

Better yet, since you are now in training at a blue belt level (not sure what level that actually is compared to from other styles), what would you do if that encounter was to repeat itself?


----------



## Loki (Jun 16, 2005)

Brad Dunne said:
			
		

> Better yet, since you are now in training at a blue belt level (not sure what level that actually is compared to from other styles), what would you do if that encounter was to repeat itself?


I'd use a wrist lock when he "stabbed" me and take the knife.


----------



## redfang (Jun 16, 2005)

Since the original question was what would I do at 16, when I was sixteen I would have fought him and his friends immediately without thinking about it.  I would have tried to take his pocket knife from him and stuck it where the sun don't shine.  If there were any good environmental weapons at hand I would have utilized those.  
     Of course, this isn't necessarily what I would do today, but at sixteen I was invulnerable.  I was of the opinion that aggressiveness and abandon could overcome numbers inferiority by intimidation.  Still, even today, If I'm attacked I will respond in some manner.  I'll just think it through a bit more.  I also make sure I don't present a victim stance by staying aware of my surroundings and being abvious about it, by not giving most strangers on the street the time of day etc.


----------



## Drac (Jun 16, 2005)

Floating Egg said:
			
		

> Yeah, I would have left immediately.


Yep..Color me gone too...


----------



## thesensei (Jun 16, 2005)

Walk away.  Both before and now.  If it was obvious to you that the kid was only about thirteen, then I'm sure you could have outrun him!  It sounds by his attitude that he was "just" fooling around, but not worth taking a chance with.  Remember the first rule of self defense: Get Away!


----------



## arnisador (Jun 16, 2005)

Loki said:
			
		

> I'd use a wrist lock when he "stabbed" me and take the knife.


 How many times (out of 10, say) would this work? I train against knives all the time and I sure wouldn't bet my life on it.


----------



## Shaolinwind (Jun 17, 2005)

Loki said:
			
		

> The following story happened to me when I was sixteen, one week before I took up martial arts. It's also the main reason I joined:
> 
> I was walking out of the theater with a friend after midnight, when the mall it's in is closed and they usher you outside right away. Israel issues driving licenses at 17, so we were waiting for my dad to pick us up, when this kid (he was probably thirteen or so) walks right past me with his friend and says "what's up?". Thinking he's just kidding around, I say "all's good" when he slaps me. He then turns and proceeds towards my friend. I call out to warn him, but he slaps him as well. He then pulls out a Swiss army knife and swings it around a bit. He then pretends to stab me with it, just after folding the blade inwards. His friend finds all this pretty funny. We don't. Not really knowing what to do when confronted by some prick with a knife, we just stand their like idiots, taking abuse until he grows tired and leaves.
> 
> My question is, what would you have done in my place at the age of 16 (before you started MA if you started before), and what would you have do if this happens today?


At 16 the moment I got slapped I'd put up my dukes, which would most probably result in me getting my rear severely beaten or worse.  I think being timid was in your favor this day. Glad you weren't knifed.

I remember one time when I was 11 or so, I was allowed to take the bus downtown Scranton (almost totally safe, no serious crime) to go to a hobby shop.  As I walked the few blocks, I passed 3 teenagers, 2 guys and a girl.  As I passed one of the boys yelled to the other "do it! Now!"  He proceeds to putting his fist right into my shoulder. It only smarted a little really but he pulled back and swung like he really meant to cause harm.  Their girl seemed quite impressed with this.   I suppose their testosterone was pumping and it seemed like a good time to posture for a shallow teen chick.  But it was over quick and didn't leave a mark, so I didn't tell mom about it and continued to walk the streets of Scranton quite uneventfully.  I wonder if he feels guilty for doing that, if he even remembers?


----------



## swiftpete (Jun 17, 2005)

That guy sounds like a real chump. I hope he didn't get anywhere with the girl! Hopefully he got beaten up by someone bigger shortly afterwards. Picking on a younger kid to show off is about the crappiest thing i can think of.


----------



## Bigshadow (Jun 17, 2005)

arnisador said:
			
		

> How many times (out of 10, say) would this work? I train against knives all the time and I sure wouldn't bet my life on it.


 Definitely agree! When I was sixteen, I really don't know what I have done. Now, it all depends. The best I can say is I would control the attacker, how I would do that, depends on the circumstances at that moment.

 I have found that if you "think" I will do A if they do B, does not work and all attacks are different and the moment a bit changes, the entire situation is affected. Trying to force fit a technique *CAN* get you killed.


----------



## searcher (Jun 17, 2005)

Move away from him and his friend or flee the scene.   This is for both then and now.  It is extremely difficult to defeat somebody with a knife.   I am not saying it can't be done, but it is just plain hard.   

If you got the chance I would hit him with your dad's car.


----------



## Rick Wade (Jun 17, 2005)

Loki, 

    You have received some great advice here.  Let me put my own personal spin on it.

Fact 1 you were 16
Fact 2 he pulled a knife
Solution = 16 + knife = immediate training for the high school track team.  

I think most of us here would rather remove ourselves from a situation than risk getting injury or death as long as someone else isn't at risk.

V/R

Rick


----------



## Loki (Jun 17, 2005)

arnisador said:
			
		

> How many times (out of 10, say) would this work? I train against knives all the time and I sure wouldn't bet my life on it.


I agree two. A wristlock is usually hardly the way to go with a knife, but all things considered, most of all his seeming to have zero knowledge of how to use a knife, I'd take it from him with a wristlock and maybe throw in kick to the quads for good measure. He's what Marc "Animal" MacYoung would have called an "intimidated kid" (http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/knifelies.html#jerry-petersen). Plus, Swiss army knives are folders, if I were to try to take it from him when he "stabbed", I wouldn't actually be facing a blade.

Searcher, I like!


----------



## MA-Caver (Jun 17, 2005)

If I have read the initial post correctly ( and I think I have) ... The antagonist is 13 and going after someone who is 16... pretty stupid kid... 
At a skating rink I had a younger kid with a bunch of his buddies do basically the same thing, only he intentionally knocked me off my skates when I wasn't looking... I got back up and we did the usual male to male posturing and getting into each other's faces. The kid attempted to swing at me and I ducked it and did a knife slash (with my palm's edge) on his throat. 
That was my intial (and immature) reaction to such a thing. 
If he had a knife... I 'd probably gone off on him not caring about the consenquences. I was pretty much a hot head with a hair trigger when I was between 13-17... someone thankfully cured me of that. 
Still culturally between here and Israel... hell, culturally between NYC and Podunk ID there are differences on what a teenager would do if some younger kid walked up and slapped an older kid. That's a difference between a butt whupping and getting killed, now-a-days anyway. 
At that age we're still trying to figure out what even IS with testosterone let alone how to handle it. Reactions will vary on home/school environment and peers. I know my peers (back then) would have NEVER let me live it down if some younger kid came up and slapped me and pulled a "baby" knife on me.   ..... thankfully I hang with a much better and mature crowd now-a-days.


----------



## evenflow1121 (Jun 17, 2005)

Id say you handled yourself pretty mature for a 16 yr old, only thing that would have topped that was to simply walk away. At 16 I would have probably beat the snot out of that kid without any regards for consequences that may arise as a result of, that would have obviously been a very wrong thing to do, but it is what I would have done at 16. So all in all, I think you handled yourself pretty well at that age.

If this were to happen to me today and I am 26 now btw, I may walk away, then again, I may take the knife away from the kid, and keep it, and throw it out somewhere. If it is an adult that is attacking me then I would have to hurt the guy obviously, place the person in a spot where I feel he could not hurt me.


----------



## cfr (Jun 17, 2005)

Loki said:
			
		

> Not really knowing what to do when confronted by some prick with a knife, we just stand their like idiots, taking abuse until he grows tired and leaves.



Possibly because of your just standing there like an "idiot" then, you are able to write this today?


----------



## still learning (Jun 19, 2005)

Hello, You both were lucky he was playing a dirty trick on you and your friend.
 In an adrenline response no two situtions will be the same.  You are alive and able to tell the story, so I would say you did the right thing by letting it go.

 He knew both of you were an easy mark tarket for his bullying.  Do a research on bullies and what they look for?  Then you will understand this a little more.

 Today you know you are more confident in yourself and will never let this happen to you again.  Life teaches us many lessons growing up.  Hopefully each one will keep you living longer. ........Aloha


----------



## sgtmac_46 (Jun 21, 2005)

What would I do now if a 13 year old kid walked by and slapped me and then pulled a knife? I'd probably take it away and spank his behind, and then call his parents. At 16? I would have probably knocked him out pretty quickly for slapping me, so I probably wouldn't have seen the knife. I'd been boxing for 3 years at 16, so I probably wouldn't have thought too much about it, and what age he was or anything else probably wouldn't register until after. Of course I was silly at 16, and did a lot sillier things than fighting with a 13 year old with a knife. (Things that make me shudder to think about now that I realize I wasn't bullet proof.) 

That being said, i've never been the target of this kind of activity. Most 13 year old's don't walk up to 30 year old men who are 6'5 and 275 pounds, it's just not a common occurance. I'm just not targeted for that much harassment. Much like the "happy slapping" phenomenon discussed in another forum, teenage boys in groups typically harass women, old men, and boys their own age or younger. Even in packs, teenage boys tend to steer clear of lone older males they view as dangerous. 

I've even seen adult males bait members of packs of intoxicated teenage boys in to petty harassment, for the sole purpose of gaining an excuse to administer a beating to one or more of the members. Teenage boys learn this real quickly (usually after the first severe beating), and tend to avoid anyone they perceive as dangerous in favor of easier prey that will boost their ego.


----------



## jkdhit (Jun 21, 2005)

as soon as i saw the knife coming towards me i would have pushed it downwards and away from me and tried to take him out 

 last year i was leaving my girlfriends house and a similar situation happened but the guy was trying to mug me. i was on my phone and he asked me for the time so i gave it to him and kept walking. then he stopped me and had a knife and tried to rob me. i basically did the same thing i said to above. the only time i would be more passive is if the blade was closer to my neck or higher.


----------



## arnisador (Jun 21, 2005)

Wow, dangerous overconfidence there. A knife's a scary thing. My training partner cut himself tonight cleaning one--right to the (finger) bone, just like that.


----------



## sgtmac_46 (Jun 22, 2005)

arnisador said:
			
		

> Wow, dangerous overconfidence there. A knife's a scary thing. My training partner cut himself tonight cleaning one--right to the (finger) bone, just like that.


 In truth, it's been my experience that the situation is sometimes a catch 22.  Sometimes caution will save your life.  Other times aggression will save you where caution won't.  What's the answer?  "You pays your money and you takes your chances."


----------



## ninhito (Jun 22, 2005)

I would have ran or fought back, very little fighting back, liek just grabbing the guys arm and punching him then running like i was getting chased by a dog...


----------



## rutherford (Jun 22, 2005)

At 16 I was moody, to put it mildly.  Some days I would have laughed.  Some days I would have tried to put his knife in his eye.

Most days I would have waited until after he started walking away, picked up a brick, and caved in his skull.  Or at least wished I'd had for several weeks afterwards and blown up on the first person who looked at me sideways.

I'm so glad those days have passed.


----------



## BigCat63 (Jun 22, 2005)

Honestly when I was 16 I would have peed my pants and then fled. 
Now that I am much older and trained I would just flee.


----------

