# Daito Ryu influence



## Cthulhu (Sep 13, 2001)

Does anybody know of somebody teaching aikido that is based more on Daito Ryu, akin to what Ueshiba was supposedly teaching before WWII?  If I were ever to take aikido, that'd be the kind I'd like to take.

"If you do the technique and your opponent smiles, it's aikido.  If you do the technique and your opponent screams, it's Daito Ryu".

Cthulhu


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## Mao (Oct 7, 2001)

As for daito ryu, I don't know.  One of the styles in which I train/teach is ASU aikido.  For the beginners it CAN be quite gentle.  For the upper ranks, it can ROCK.  I think that whether it's aikido or pistols at dawn, one can make it either offensive or defensive....hard or not hard.  Alot depends on the instructor also.


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## Cthulhu (Oct 8, 2001)

What about the Ki Society?  Is that even around anymore?

Cthulhu


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## Mao (Oct 8, 2001)

The Ki society is still around.  Not around here though.  One can read about them in various media like Aikido Today mag. and such.


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## Cthulhu (Oct 8, 2001)

The reason I brought up the Ki Society was due to Tohei's (?) concentration on ki development.  This ultimately is what led to his split from the Hombu dojo and the formation of the Ki Society.  

Not having seen it in person, it seems like Tohei's aikido was even more far removed (ew, that looks odd) from Daito Ryu than Ueshiba's aikido, concentrating more on ki development than combative principles.

Then again, since he was once the main instructor at the hombu dojo, I'm sure he could still use aikido very effectively.  He just changed his focus and began teaching it differently.

Cthulhu


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## Mao (Oct 8, 2001)

I have seen some ki style and was not particularly impressed.  It did not seem any more effective and perhaps less so than some of the other styles.  Mitsugi Saotome, the head of our organization, was an uchi deshi for about 20 years.  He has much insight as to certain ways of doing things that may not be taught by many others.


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## Datu Tim Hartman (Oct 13, 2001)

Mao,
 are you playing golf again? Did you see that one of the Presas' have signed up on this forum? Hope you don't mind me plying threw.:wink:


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## Bob Hubbard (Oct 13, 2001)

Hey, Renagade finally got his Orange Belt!

Bout time! :karate: 

:cheers:


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## GouRonin (Oct 14, 2001)

He's a good kid... a little slow, but a good kid...

Now we have to see how he can re-unite the world of Arnis.

But I digress...

I tried some aikido a while back at a local school. I found their ready stance to be very uncomfortable for me. The instructor would or couldn't tell me why I should use it for an altercation. I suspect it was just for the "ideal" phase. Anyone know why they use this stance otherwise?


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## Mao (Oct 14, 2001)

Hey Gatorade, I mean Renegade,
I golf fairly often. Did you know that golf is a contact sport, and sometimes we use sticks. I'll show you mine if you show me yours............:asian:


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## Mao (Oct 14, 2001)

With regards to the ready stance in aikido, it was uncomfortable for me also when I first began. I had come from many years of hard style m.a.'s. Now so many years later, I tend to vary my stance. It is more mobile and if uke doesn't attack promptly I go after him. I also vary the height. As to why it is taught the way it is, one is supposed to be "accepting" whatever an attacker gives out. As you have probably noticed, it is rather open and forward. Kind of an invitation aint it?


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## GouRonin (Oct 14, 2001)

So inviting I jabbed and got yelled at for hitting him.
Sheeesh!


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## Mao (Oct 16, 2001)

Some people don't use any common sense.  He could have bobbed, weaved, parried, faded, anything but get stand there with his chin out yelling HIT ME, HIT ME....................


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## arnisador (Nov 10, 2001)

> _Originally posted by Mao _
> *One of the styles in which I train/teach is ASU aikido.*



What does the ASU stand for?

How many different styles of Aikido are there now? Is anyone aware of a list?


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## Mao (Nov 11, 2001)

ASU stands for Aikido Schools of Ueshiba.
He was the founder, as you know. The guy runnin' the show now is his grandson.
 There are several "branches" of sikido out there.  ASU, USAF, Ki society, to name a few.


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## Jay Bell (Nov 12, 2001)

Cthulhu, 

Ueshiba sensei labelled his "pre-Aikido" Aiki-budo.  It was during his refinement stages of his creation.

Aikido can be very effective in self defense.  However, that wasn't really the point of it's creation.  Ueshiba sensei was attempting to create a vehicle of peace through bujutsu.  Daito ryu on the other hand... 

Daito ryu and Aikido share many common techniques, just done moderately different.  I've watched many hours of footage of Daito ryu demos...as well as known many Aikidoka.  Very different feel to the both of them.


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## Cthulhu (Nov 12, 2001)

If at all possible, could you elaborate on the differences between aikido, aiki-budo, and daito ryu?  Sure, just that little thing 

Are there more atemi waza in aiki-budo and daito ryu?

Cthulhu


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## Mao (Nov 12, 2001)

In my experience and opinion, the biggest glaring difference btwn the aiki-do, -budo, -jutsu
etc. is philosophical. As Jay Bell mentioned, M. Ueshiba was looking for a way to "reconcile the world". This came after a long life of fighting, warring, and training in several styles of m.a., not all soft. He had a rep. as being undefeatable in a couple of areas. The stories abound. But one should bear in mind that he was in the Russo-Japanese war, was sort of a "ronin", was guard to the emperor and other hx. to long to mention here. It wasn't till later in his life, when he retired to a mountain cave, that he was "enlightened" and developed aikido because he came to believe that if there is confrontation and one "wins" at the expence of another, no one really wins. I have said to people over the years, mostly students, It doesn't matter if it's aikido or pistols at dawn, you can make it either offensive or defensive. It's often a choice. However if my family is involved or someone I care about, all bets are off and it goes into survival mode. I will be less inclined to protect the attacker from himself.


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## Jay Bell (Nov 12, 2001)

Daito ryu of course was the core of Aiki-budo and Aikido creation.  When you watch embu of Daito ryu, the results tend to have a level of permanancy that aren't found in Aikido.

As far as Aiki-budo, it's really hard to say.  For the most part, it would be speculation on my part to attempt to define how Aiki-budo was done...but I would have to guess that it was much closer to Daito ryu's way of handling things then what became Aikido.

Atemi-waza is found in all three arts.  It just doesn't seem to be heavily emphasized in some of the Aikido groups nowdays.


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## Despairbear (Nov 14, 2001)

Greetings, 
I think one of the chnages from Aiki-budo to Aikido was the modification of certin throws. As I understand it throws in Aikido are desighned to not be intrinsicy harmfull (you have a choise in the ammount of pain/damage/death inflicted), Aiki-budo was an earlyer form in which some throws and locks could only be properly compleated with serious injury or death. 

Ateimi-waza? I assume you mean the distracting/dissablising strikes of Aikido. I have not heard some one call it atemi-waza before. You are right some schools do not practice it, personaly I feel that is a shame. Near the end of his life O'sensei was a great advocet of the use of ateimi in aikido, when the founder says something is important I tend to belive him.



Despair Bear


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## old_sempai (Mar 19, 2002)

:asian: 

I'm of the impression that Yoshinkan founded by Shioda Gozo more closely resembles the pre-war style taught by Uyeshiba during the 30's.  Never heard the story of him retreating into a cave though.  But on the other hand no one ever gets into the fact that not only did he belong to the Omotokyo, but was a member of the Black Dragon Society, a highly xenophobic organization that wanted to drive all westerners out of Asia.

In fact, Chang Kai Shek was also a member of the Black Draqon Society.  He joined while attending a Japanese Military Academy in 1907.  As for Uyeshiba, after learning and getting a teaching license in Daito Ryu he also studied and later taught Yagyu Shinkage Ryu at Keio University in Tokyo, and was a member of the Kendo Club at this school.  

This university is the most exclussive one in Japan, and every, and I do mean every political and even military leaders of Japan, past, present and future attend this school, and no other.  But most today gloss over these facts!

Regards

:asian:


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