# Wing Chun GMs



## tmanifold (Aug 23, 2002)

I know know wing chun has more GMs than a 14 year old has pimples but how many of them are sort of legit. As in studied under Yip Man? Which didn't?

Also aren't there a couple of lineages that don't include Yip Man?

Tony


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## arnisador (Aug 23, 2002)

> _Originally posted by tmanifold _
> 
> *Also aren't there a couple of lineages that don't include Yip Man? *



Yes, though most do include him I believe.


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## Cthulhu (Aug 23, 2002)

> _Originally posted by tmanifold _
> 
> *I know know wing chun has more GMs than a 14 year old has pimples but how many of them are sort of legit. As in studied under Yip Man? Which didn't?
> 
> ...



There are more Wing Chun systems than that headed by the late Yip Man.  To name a few, there is Yuen-Kay San, Gu Lao, Pan Nam, and others, each with their own respective GMs.

I find it rather humorous that Leung Ting is claiming the title of Great Grandmaster.

Cthulhu


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## theneuhauser (Aug 24, 2002)

augustine fong is probably going to bow out of the teaching business pretty soon. i dont think anyone ever called him gm, but he is one of few who really deserves it. but he was a student of ho kam ming, who was a student of yip man and i believe that ho kam ming was even reluctant to take the title of si gung, just shows the respect they had for gm ym in a largely unchanged system.


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## HarvesterofSorrow (Aug 24, 2002)

It would be very bad for me if Augustine Fong stops teaching!
He's my Sifu!


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## arnisador (Aug 24, 2002)

> _Originally posted by HarvesterofSorrow _
> 
> *It would be very bad for me if Augustine Fong stops teaching!
> He's my Sifu! *



Let's hope it's just a rumour then!


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## theneuhauser (Aug 25, 2002)

> _Originally posted by HarvesterofSorrow _
> 
> *It would be very bad for me if Augustine Fong stops teaching!
> He's my Sifu! *



do you train directly with him?

when i spoke with him in tucson he told me that he wasnt teaching much anymore, and implied even further, but i shouldnt spread rumors on implications, though.

are you in tucson Harvesterofsorrow? or are you one of his disciples teaching somewhere else?


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## HarvesterofSorrow (Aug 25, 2002)

I'm a student of his here in tucson.
:asian:


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## theneuhauser (Aug 25, 2002)

good for you! hes one of the best.


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## HarvesterofSorrow (Aug 25, 2002)

yeah he's cool.  really mellow too.  Doesn't seem like a guy that could end you in a second if he wanted to.


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## theneuhauser (Aug 25, 2002)

and his english sucks


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## HarvesterofSorrow (Aug 25, 2002)

lol, yeah so true.  When I first started there I started laughing during the form.  When he would say down it sounded more like 'dong.'  But he's a really cool guy.


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## theneuhauser (Aug 25, 2002)

hes defenitely the post master general!!!


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## HarvesterofSorrow (Aug 25, 2002)

It tripped me out when I first found out he's a mail man.  Like some kind of comicbook hero.  Mailman by day, wing chun bad a$$ by night.


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## theneuhauser (Aug 25, 2002)

too cool 



back on topic, though, there are a few wing chun schools here in phoenix, do you know anything about them? they have various lineages, i assume. there's one called Tufts wing chun near my place. i may try it out for awhile. 

harvester, maybe you could ask master fong who he reccomends for wing chun in phoenix?


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## HarvesterofSorrow (Aug 25, 2002)

There is a student at the kwoon that wears a Tufts Wing Chun shirt when he trains.  Also I've seen a plaque or something with a picture on the wall from Tufts.  I'll ask sifu when I get the chance.


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## theneuhauser (Aug 25, 2002)

gracias amigo!


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## tmanifold (Aug 26, 2002)

The one thing about this wing chun dilemma is that it makes you feel a little bit better about the Japanese style of children or adopted children inheiriting a system regardless of skill. Take Aikido for example, K. Ueshiba is Grandmaster of Aikido, regardless of his skill level. For sure there were others with greater skill, (Shirata sensei jumps to mind) but K. Ueshiba was Moriehi ueshiba's son, and that was that. (I understand there were times when he wasn't the heir apparent but..) In fact most of the Uchi deshi stayed loyal to the son of the founder making it easy to find the aikido closest to the founders idea.

Maybe the fact that something like wing chun is so old that it can not be so simple. Are these styles of wing chun that differnet? Maybe on par with the differences in different styles of Karate? Do these lineages of Wing chun compare to different karate styles?

Tony


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## HarvesterofSorrow (Aug 26, 2002)

Yes there are many different styles of Wing Chun and most, though not all, can be traced back to Yip Man.  There is Red Boat or something like that, Vietnam has a branch of Wing Chun, snake and crane, Hung Fa Yi or somethinorother.
I dont understand when you ask if they compare to other karate styles. please clarify.
Thanx:asian:


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## tmanifold (Aug 26, 2002)

To clarify:

Since Wingchun is so old is saying Wingchun analagous to saying Karate. When one says Karate one gets a picture in his head, this picture is generally pretty close even though there are many different styles. In other words is better to talk about x style Wingchun as opposed to Wingchun style Kung Fu. 


Tony


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## The 14th Style (Oct 24, 2002)

> _Originally posted by HarvesterofSorrow _
> 
> *It would be very bad for me if Augustine Fong stops teaching!
> He's my Sifu! *



Hello HarvesterofSorrow, a couple of quick questions if you don't mind. How long have you trained in Wing Chun ? Also, have you ever had the chance to train with Phil Romero? He teaches Wing Chun here in Albuquerque. I know he has been to Tucson to visit your school. I believe he and Master Fong are good friends.

Respectfully   The 14th Style


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## celtic bhoy (Nov 3, 2002)

We have many Wing Chun schools here in England, I know of someone who says his style of Wing Chun comes from Malaysia. I've also heard of a Snake style Wing Chun, but most masters will claim the Ip Man lineage. Sometimes it's is true and sometimes it's for financial gain.

A friend of mine was taught by a man who claims Ip Man lineage. He taught my friend to do the Sil lum Tao fully tensed, my Sifu however, says you must apply all Wing Chun in forms or combat, as relaxed as possible. If you break sweat you are not doing it right. He too is of Ip Man lineage.........explain that.

Best Regards


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## arnisador (Nov 3, 2002)

Do you have any more info. on that?


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## celtic bhoy (Nov 3, 2002)

Snake Style Wing Chun was founded by Leung Yee Tye, it was founded in Yum Chou. The stlye is apparently common in Fat Shan.

Best Regards


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## blackdiamondcobra (Nov 14, 2002)

There is also Grandmaster Henry Leung(Leung Chi Man) of the Buddha
hand wing chun(futsao wing chun). He is an exemplary wing chun
master who is also a medical doctor.


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## bart (Dec 5, 2002)

Hey,

I've talked to a bunch of people who trained in various arts in the 40's, 50's and 60's, be it Karate, different Kung Fu styles or FMA and they say that Grandmaster came into popular use in the 1970's and that before then mostly teachers went by "teacher" or "sensei". Those MA's that were organized had presidents and committee chairs, but Grandmaster or Great Grandmaster seems to be a relatively recent title. I also can't seem to find any documents that use those terms. I can't read Chinese or Japanese, but the certificates in English and French that I've seen don't mention a Grandmaster or anything until about the 1970's.

Anybody hear or see anything like that other than me?


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## arnisador (Sep 27, 2003)

http://www.wingchun.ukrbiz.net/eng.htm


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## Cthulhu (Oct 14, 2003)

Personally, I think the 'Great Grandmaster' title was concocted for political reasons.  There is a lot of bickering regarding the Yip Man lineage.

Cthulhu


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## tmanifold (Nov 3, 2003)

There is nothing wrong with the title grandmaster as long as it denotes something specific. In korean arts for example, one is a master at 5th degree and a grandmaster at 8th or above.

The problem with WC is that everyone is a GM. Not only that they are the "only legitimate GM".

Tony


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