# Tom Cruise and KSW ... just for all you SP's out there



## shesulsa

This video is SO revealing about Cruise and his zeal for Scientology.

I have strong opinions about this video and his ramblings but want to read the opinions of others first.


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## kaizasosei

wow!  that was the best testemonial of scientology i have ever experienced.  
in the past, i was never a big fan of scientology because i felt they were extreme as well as ambigious on a few basic issues.
  but through this video, i have come to see the logic of scientology better.  
it's like a kind of activism geared for the individual.  may well be helpful to many people...come on, look how young and good cruise looks in that vid.
  dunno what he was laughing about so giddy...but i am thinking that scientology can do a person good.  

geez, makes me want to quit all my bad habits and take a sowing class.  


j


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## Jade Tigress

Tom Cruise has turned into a real freak. "We can help. I'm here to help. Help. Help. Help." If that's what Scientology does to a person, I'm going to Run, run far, far away. 



> _"The only way you can control people 			is to lie to them."_
> - L. Ron Hubbard



Thought Control and Scientology


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## shesulsa

Yah. "Help" me do what, exactly?


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## tellner

"When you drive past an accident ... you know you're the only one who can really help."

All Scientologists are paramedics?


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## Andrew Green

I don't think he even knows what he is talking about.

The whole interview, not one thing about what scientology actually is gets said.

Anyone that says they are not a cult is nuts, how to deal with those "SP"'s Cruise mentions:

[yt]pPol_m8wm8Y[/yt]


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## kaizasosei

hello martial talk!

actually, a friend of mine told me that when he was back home in his country,  one of his friends became involved with scientology and ended up getting deaththreats from them.
i don't know what the exact truth is.  i am beginning to see the ideas of scientology more clearly.  
  however, i can't imagine how one could change someones life forcefully- can there be gentle force? like parental? i dunno, but if so i think it would be a hell of a responsibility if not spiritual then even worldly.

crazy video.

j


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## Andrew Green

kaizasosei said:


> however, i can't imagine how one could change someones life forcefully- can there be gentle force? like parental? i dunno, but if so i think it would be a hell of a responsibility if not spiritual then even worldly.




This is how:
Scientology TR's (Training Routines... everything has a acronym... )


[gv]-799954787514590907[/gv]


I'd consider that pretty much brainwashing technique.


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## Steel Tiger

I saw some of this on TV last night.  Holy ****!  I always knew there was something seriously wrong with Scientology but I had no idea it was this crazy.

Cruise was presented as some sort of drooling, raving messiah.  _*He*_ straightened out the firefighters after 9/11. _*He*_ fixed the US education system.  What the hell is going on.  Do they think that no one is paying attention so they say anything they want.

Some interesting things.  

Scientology believes that psychology is some sort of Nazi plot.  I wonder how Freud and Jung would feel about this.  The Nazis made a great show of burning Freud's work, and Jung worked within the Nazi world to lessen their impact on psychology (what they called the "Jewish Science").  Scientology has even made a movie of how evil psychology is.

And what about money?  To get to be a god-king spokesman for alien intervention in human affairs costs about US$400 000.  So the upper echelons of Scientology are not for ordinary people.

But then they don't want ordinary people do they?  80 million years ago alien messed with human genetics with the purpose of producing a super race.  Really?  Come on!  Clearly there is some sort of psychological thing going on.  Oh wait!  There can't be because psychology isn't real.

Scientology wants to make everyone a Scientologist, forcibly if needs be.  But if this is the case then they might to use a spokesman who doesn't need the drool wiped from his chin quite so often.


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## kaizasosei

actually, long time ago something like 8 years ago, someone was pulling some shady actions on me similar  to the examples in the video above.  interesting,  but i spent  serious time  figuring out what just happened   
actually, scientology is powerful over here. it noticed it for a while. i found it too be downright spooky at times.  
it's comforting to at least know a little bit more about it as it comes to light.  however, the criminal stuff is sortof really worrysome to say the least, however.  like i said, downright spooky. 
what bothers me most however is the way that they describe creation.  it's not really scientific nor is it religious, it seems to simply have no real content.  maybe i just didn't read the right stuff, but i went to the website a long time ago to inform myself...i didn't get any message at all...even though they quoted einstein and have pictures of fossils...  now i think fossils are cool, but it didn't tell me anything about their beliefs on creation.

j


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## Xue Sheng

This quote from L. Ron Hubbard I always felt told me all I need to know about Scientology



> If you want to make a little money, write a book. If you want to make a lot of money, create a religion.
> 
> L. Ron Hubbard


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## Empty Hands

For all your debunking scientology needs:
http://www.xenu.net/


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## Steel Tiger

kaizasosei said:


> what bothers me most however is the way that they describe creation. it's not really scientific nor is it religious, it seems to simply have no real content. maybe i just didn't read the right stuff, but i went to the website a long time ago to inform myself...i didn't get any message at all...even though they quoted einstein and have pictures of fossils... now i think fossils are cool, but it didn't tell me anything about their beliefs on creation.


 
That's because it is made up.  L Ron Hubbard made up the religion to win a bet, found he could make money from it and ran with it.  It is not designed to explain the world just to give someone a belief that they will be rescued from this druggery called life - by aliens.


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## Bigshadow

Very delusional!  Delusions of grandeur!  :erg:

I guess I am an SP. LOL


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## Andrew Green

Where there is a scientology video, there is sure to be... A LAWUIT!


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## CoryKS

> Look, I wish the world was a different place.  I'd like to go on vacation, and go and romp and play and just do that, you know what I mean?


 
WTF, Tom?  I thought you were able to create new realities?


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## Tames D

Hook, line and sinker...


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## MA-Caver

zzzzzzz oh! is Tom done talking? Uhh.. okay... umm, what all did he say? The tape was definitely edited but either way... Tom has gone over. Too bad. 
The three stooges in the other video were more interesting. The one guy seemed to insist that everyone has a "crime" they're hiding just because they're attacking Scientology. Asking isn't attacking fella. 
The other guy was pushing it. Accusing the reporter of being a child molester... I caught myself thinking... if he just accused me of that I think I'd be in jail for trying to shove the camera up his ****. Pretty brazen but it speaks volumes of their techniques to gain members. It's a forceful means of getting a person to break down to be helpless and then being SO grateful that they were being "Helped!" 
The training video was ... well odd ... you mean I'm gonna sit there for HOURS or even DAYS with my eyes closed? Sheesh... Yeah it's a brainwashing technique. Sleep/sustenance deprivation is a power technique, same with forceful confessions and having the idea of getting it "all out" is liberating. 

Beware when these folks come talking to you.


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## Andrew Green

MA-Caver said:


> zzzzzzz oh! is Tom done talking? Uhh.. okay... umm, what all did he say?



Absolutely nothing.  I don't think he even completed a sentence.



> The three stooges in the other video were more interesting. The one guy seemed to insist that everyone has a "crime" they're hiding just because they're attacking Scientology.



Well, Scientologists are trying to make the world better, by making the people better.  If you are attacking what scientology is you are attacking the idea of making people better, which means you must be a bad person that doesn't want to change.  

I'm guessing that is their logic, although I think it is more about redirecting focus off of them and onto the "SP", no matter what he says they will go on exactly the same in the attacks until they push the person over the edge.  Basically the same tactic as in the training video.




> Asking isn't attacking fella.
> The other guy was pushing it. Accusing the reporter of being a child molester... I caught myself thinking... if he just accused me of that I think I'd be in jail for trying to shove the camera up his ****. Pretty brazen but it speaks volumes of their techniques to gain members. It's a forceful means of getting a person to break down to be helpless and then being SO grateful that they were being "Helped!"



Attack without mercy anyone that criticizes the church, no longer an "official" policy that they will admit too, but they admited that in the past:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_Game_(Scientology)

Claiming anyone that criticises them is a criminal is open policy though:



> Now get this as a technical _fact,_ not a hopeful idea. Every time we have investigated the background of a critic of Scientology we have found crimes for which that person or group could be imprisoned under existing law. We do not find critics of Scientology who do not have criminal pasts. Over and over we prove this. -- _Critics of Scientology,_ "Hubbard Communications Office Policy Letter," 5 November 1967



It's a oneway rule though, (aren't double standards a standard cult feature?)  The Church and Tom Cruise would sue anyone saying it back.

Although it's not always about winning, just harassing critics:


> _"The purpose of the suit is to harass and discourage rather than win. The law can be used very easily to harass, and enough harassment on somebody who is simply on the thin edge anyway, well knowing that he is not authorized, will generally be sufficient to cause professional decease. If possible, of course, ruin him utterly."_L. Ron Hubbard, _The Scientologist, a Manual on the Dissemination of Material,_ 1955


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## MA-Caver

Andrew Green said:


> Originally Posted by *MA-Caver *
> zzzzzzz oh! is Tom done talking? Uhh.. okay... umm, what all did he say?
> 
> 
> 
> Absolutely nothing.  I don't think he even completed a sentence.
Click to expand...

 Yeah, kinda sad isn't it? Also sad is that John Travolta is a Scientologist I believe. Getting big name stars on their membership roster is gonna make 'em even more brazen. Note that the J.W.'s don't boast about Michael Jackson being of their faith do they? hee  



Andrew Green said:


> Originally Posted by *MA-Caver * The three stooges in the other video were more interesting. The one guy seemed to insist that everyone has a "crime" they're hiding just because they're attacking Scientology.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, Scientologists are trying to make the world better, by making the people better.  If you are attacking what scientology is you are attacking the idea of making people better, which means you must be a bad person that doesn't want to change.
> 
> I'm guessing that is their logic, although I think it is more about redirecting focus off of them and onto the "SP", no matter what he says they will go on exactly the same in the attacks until they push the person over the edge.  Basically the same tactic as in the training video.
Click to expand...

 This is I believe, probably the same tactic that a lot of cults use. Whatever it is it isn't logic. 
Part of me would've started offering the "three stooges" in the video some kool-aid.


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## shesulsa

The thing that made me squirm in the training exercises Andrew posted is a similar philosophy in a personal excellence seminar I took once.  The idea was that if someone throws negative comments your way, you just completely deflect them, not bringing them into your mind.  The imagery was taking a negative rock, crushing it and dropping it.  The affect of these people was the same as Cruise and Travolta - crazy eyes, a smirky smile, an attitude that they've got it all figured out they're THE answer ... THE helpers.

The idea was that you create positive changes in your life and thereby affect others, you don't accept negativity, you self-program, you diffuse other people who attempt to rattle you.

But I think there is a line Scientology has crossed here; the difference between behavior modification for positive self-management and brainwashing.

Where do you folks draw the line? 

I think the lawsuits are indicative of a systemic ill - a manifest mental illness in these people.  They are taking honest criticism and turning it into negativity, defamation, etcetera.  

But what about the individual prep?


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## tellner

I'm putting the odds at 40% that Bob and MT will start taking fire for this discussion from the CoS.


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## Xue Sheng

tellner said:


> I'm putting the odds at 40% that Bob and MT will start taking fire for this discussion from the CoS.


 
You are probably right


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## shesulsa

tellner said:


> I'm putting the odds at 40% that Bob and MT will start taking fire for this discussion from the CoS.





Xue Sheng said:


> You are probably right


One would think they are secure enough in their faith to not have to attack a poor little martial arts discussion board.  Should I repeat the auditing command? :uhyeah:


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## Xue Sheng

shesulsa said:


> One would think they are secure enough in their faith to not have to attack a poor little martial arts discussion board. Should I repeat the auditing command? :uhyeah:


 
That or Bob should start his own religion Martialtology or MartialTalkology and live by L Ron's quote



> If you want to make a little money, write a book. If you want to make a lot of money, create a religion. - L. Ron Hubbard


 
Or move this to the study so it is harder to see.


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## CoryKS

Xue Sheng said:


> That or Bob should start his own religion Martialtology or MartialTalkology and live by L Ron's quote


 
We could call him El Bob, and pay him large amounts of money for progressively cooler banners to affix to our name bar.


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## jim777

Maybe he is an insane megalomaniac...but can you really be sure?

"When you're a Scientologist, and you drive by an accident, you know you have to do something about it, because you know you're the only one who can really help...." 

http://gawker.com/5002269/the-cruise...ed-to-suppress

jim


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## Xue Sheng

Look here


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## MA-Caver

jim777 said:


> Maybe he is an insane megalomaniac...but can you really be sure?
> 
> "When you're a Scientologist, and you drive by an accident, you know you have to do something about it, because you know you're the only one who can really help...."
> 
> http://gawker.com/5002269/the-cruise...ed-to-suppress
> 
> jim



We do have another thread talking about this particular subject ... just FYI :asian:


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## jim777

Ah, well....when I didn't see it in the Comedy section I assumed it hadn't been posted


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## Xue Sheng

jim777 said:


> Ah, well....when I didn't see it in the Comedy section I assumed it hadn't been posted


 
No biggie and it is likely Tom is the only one that can save us... Just ask hiim


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## Empty Hands

Xue Sheng said:


> That or Bob should start his own religion Martialtology or MartialTalkology and live by L Ron's quote



He already has Hubbard in his name.  Perfect!

I call dibs on Grand High Inquisitor.


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## Xue Sheng

CoryKS said:


> We could call him El Bob, and pay him large amounts of money for progressively cooler banners to affix to our name bar.


 


Empty Hands said:


> He already has Hubbard in his name. Perfect!
> 
> I call dibs on Grand High Inquisitor.


 
El Bob Hubbard...hmmmmm

*THAT'S PERFECT*


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## Andrew Green

Xue Sheng said:


> El Bob Hubbard...hmmmmm
> 
> *THAT'S PERFECT*



El Rob Hubbard, even better


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## Xue Sheng

Andrew Green said:


> El Rob Hubbard, even better


 
Yes of course, why didn't I think of that. :duh:

But then it is really all up to El Bob or El Rob Hubbard to decide since he is the Chairman of the board of the Martialartous


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## MA-Caver

Well considering that we are all here already... so I guess the next question is... for the newbies... 

*WHATS YOUR ART? HUH?? WHATS YOUR ART??! *What are you trying to hide? *WHATS YOUR ART? TELL US! *

(heh...)


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## CoryKS

I can see how the MMA vs. TMA threads are going to go:

OP:  MMA is superior than X because most fights go to the ground and X doesn't train for that.

Respondent:  You must be a child molester or a tax cheat.  There's no other reason why you would have attacked me like that.  I'm going to have a word with all your neighbors and your employer.


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## Bob Hubbard

Well, the worst they can do is shut the site down, put me out of business, and force me into bankruptcy. I have faith that our members will contribute to the high legal bills such a battle will generate. 

Scientology has it's critics, and is very aggressive in shutting them down. Spend some time on Google and other search engines and it's a long read.  I've read some of them, it was, interesting reading.

Mr. Cruise is welcome to his opinions, and I find it interesting the number of Hollywood actors who are members of CoS. It's rather a high number.

I know several Scientologists, a few are members here, and they seem quite happy an quite excited about it. They are good people. But while I may see some merit in some of the ideas mentioned, it's not a path for me.


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## Empty Hands

Bob Hubbard said:


> I know several Scientologists, a few are members here, and they seem quite happy an quite excited about it. They are good people. But while I may see some merit in some of the ideas mentioned, it's not a path for me.



Unfortunately, I can't take such a live-and-let-live attitude about scientology.  While I have no doubt that individual members are good people, such as you describe, the organization as a whole is very harmful.  In fact, one could say that members such as you know are the greatest victims!

The only thing the rest of us have going for us is that scientology is very small, and unlikely to grow very much.  Its harm will be limited. Unfortunately, the harm it does cause is still real and should be stopped.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lisa_McPherson
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Cowen/essays/timeline.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narconon#Controversies
http://www.xenu.net/archive/events/20010911-tragedy/
http://scientology-facts.blogspot.com/2005/11/child-abuse-systemic-in-scientology.html

There are many, many others.


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## Bob Hubbard

A friend of mine has had some dealings with an offshoot group that were quite ugly. I'm just not interested in having the same experience, y'know?  I want a headache, I'll stickfight. lol


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## Cruentus

Bob Hubbard said:


> Well, the worst they can do is shut the site down, put me out of business, and force me into bankruptcy. I have faith that our members will contribute to the high legal bills such a battle will generate.



Well.... **** them.

I have friends who are scientologists though. To me, it is like anything else; in christianity, you can have people who are great people with good ethics, or you can have corrupt jerks who have really poor ethics.

I am not saying it is "the same," but I am saying that there are good people who follow the religion.

But as far as trying to go after people... I say **** em. I'll say what I want, and come after me and I'll bury you. That's the attitude I take , anyhow.... :idunno:


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## Bob Hubbard

Yeah, but you're safe in Tehran with that sniper rifle. All I have is 2 bits of rattan.


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## jim777

The video was on the news tonight when I came limping in from TKD, so I think they've got a bigger PR issue on their hands that MT  They're saying Tom has the same single minded mentality as Osama, so, that probably isn't making them too happy :lol:


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## Bob Hubbard

True.
TC's public comments have repeatedly come across a bit... odd.


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## Cruentus

Bob Hubbard said:


> Yeah, but you're safe in Tehran with that sniper rifle. All I have is 2 bits of rattan.



lol... they can't attack what they can't see!


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## Tames D

Bob Hubbard said:


> Yeah, but you're safe in Tehran with that sniper rifle. *All I have is 2 bits of rattan*.


I got your back Bob. For whatever it's worth.


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## diamondbar1971

Not only is he a member of such a fine organization, but he is so far out there, that he has his own zipcode.


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## kaizasosei

on to something.?  i can see it now-'martialtalkology'  
  -SLAP-you were figetting!  THUNK. settle down!  -that's much better. LASH!
Let us help you get slapped around!  you'll never be able to do it alone!  slapping people around since...

gosh, we'd probably win the whole worlds favor, let alone the internet.



j


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## Bob Hubbard

kaizasosei said:


> on to something.?  i can see it now-'martialtalkology'
> -SLAP-you were figetting!  THUNK. settle down!  -that's much better. LASH!
> Let us help you get slapped around!  you'll never be able to do it alone!  slapping people around since...
> 
> gosh, we'd probably win the whole worlds favor, let alone the internet.
> 
> 
> 
> j


ROFL!


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## CoryKS

kaizasosei said:


> on to something.? i can see it now-'martialtalkology'
> -SLAP-you were figetting! THUNK. settle down! -that's much better. LASH!
> Let us help you get slapped around! you'll never be able to do it alone! slapping people around since...
> 
> gosh, we'd probably win the whole worlds favor, let alone the internet.
> 
> 
> 
> j


 
Speaking of getting slapped around, it looks like the CoS is learning that some people just don't respond well to threats.


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## Bob Hubbard

Hell, just post a link on Slashdot.org and watch your server cry for it's mommy.


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## Doc_Jude

Steel Tiger said:


> I saw some of this on TV last night.  Holy ****!  I always knew there was something seriously wrong with Scientology but I had no idea it was this crazy...Cruise was presented as some sort of drooling, raving messiah.


Man, that's *exactly* what I was thinking.



> _*He*_ straightened out the firefighters after 9/11. _*He*_ fixed the US education system.  What the hell is going on.  Do they think that no one is paying attention so they say anything they want.



A former instructor of mine, who was also licensed in NLP, told me half-jokingly,"When a miracle happens, take credit"....

Plus, Tom Cruise just broke a record for me. I've never actually listened to someone talk for ten minutes when they have *absolutely nothing to say*. I think I need to send Tom a bill. Unfortunately, a 10-minute listening session with me is $500,000. 
(Hey, I need to buy my way into Scientology somehow)


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## Doc_Jude

Empty Hands said:


> http://www.xenu.net/archive/events/20010911-tragedy/



THAT RIGHT THERE IS FRIGGIN' HORRIFIC.


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## Doc_Jude

I have no idea if *this* or *that* is accurate, but if they are, things make more sense to me.


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## daz1971

Andrew Green said:


> This is how:
> Scientology TR's (Training Routines... everything has a acronym... )
> 
> 
> [gv]-799954787514590907[/gv]
> 
> 
> I'd consider that pretty much brainwashing technique.



That is total madness!!!


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## CoryKS

daz1971 said:


> That is total madness!!!


 
Madness?  THIS.  IS.  SCIENTOLOGY!!!

/sorry, had to be done.


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## Steel Tiger

The CoS has just recently threatened some of our larger book stores with lawsuits if they carry the unauthorised biography of Tom Cruise.  They are bowing to the pressure to avoid the hassles (just as the CoS wants), but a number of independent stores are selling it anyway (good for them).

The bullying is now seriously out in the open and it will have people wondering what this organisation thiks its doing.  They would have been better off as a secret society then at least Cruise wouldn't have been allowed to talk at anybody.

If ever there was an anti-spokesman he is it.


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## Empty Hands

CoryKS said:


> Madness?  THIS.  IS.  SCIENTOLOGY!!!



:roflmao:


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## Andrew Green

Anonymous has declared war on Scientology:

[yt]JCbKv9yiLiQ[/yt]


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## The Last Legionary

Nice.


But, do they have phasers?


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## Xue Sheng

Andrew Green said:


> Anonymous has declared war on Scientology:


 
Wasn't that Steven Hawking 

Yes I know that was bad... but I am anonymous and who cares


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## shesulsa

The Last Legionary said:


> Nice.
> 
> 
> But, do they have phasers?


I'll repeat the auditing command ....


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## Big Don

tellner said:


> "When you drive past an accident ... you know you're the only one who can really help."
> 
> All Scientologists are paramedics?


I don't know about you, but, I prefer pain meds to happy thoughts...


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## tellner

Big Don said:


> I don't know about you, but, I prefer pain meds to happy thoughts...



Word.


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## Big Don

tellner said:


> Word.


Thirteen to be exact.


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## Andrew Green

The Last Legionary said:


> Nice.
> 
> 
> But, do they have phasers?



No phasers, but they did just "release" a whole butt load of secret Scientology documents.

Anon can be a scary person to piss off, twisted and cruel, no sense of guilt, but does have the attention span of a ADHD kid that just ate a bag of espresso beans...


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## Andrew Green

Xue Sheng said:


> Wasn't that Steven Hawking
> 
> Yes I know that was bad... but I am anonymous and who cares



Science vs Scientology

I bet Stephen divides by zero and turns them inside out :lol:


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## Andrew Green

BBC - Scientology and Me

Panorama documentary on Scientology from a couple years back:

[gv]-126281853779690652[/gv]


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## The Last Legionary

Nice video. I liked how the same guy kept showing up. Spooooky. You'd think the BBC guys would check the loo for hidden cameras.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology
The discussion page is a frickin warzone. 

L Ron was a bad sci-fi writer, rumor is most of his books were ghost written. You would think that actors could see a bad script, but these are the same morons who think they can save the world because they are actors. Baaaah.  Baaaah. Baaaaah.

I don't doubt the lower folks are sincere, some of the stuffs a good read if you're into New Age stuff, but the company is a bully plain and simple.


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## jim777

If you've been following this thread, I think you'll be interested in this (and e-rep me accordingly, of course :lol 

http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/3f716ffebe

Basically, Jerry O'Connell sees the power of KFC...



jim

(j/k about the e-rep thing folks  )


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## Bob Hubbard

*Internet Group Declares War on Scientology *

*Posted by 	 	Zonk  	on Thursday January 24, @10:03AM*
*from the so-long-and-thanks-for-all-the-fish dept.* 

Darkman, Walkin Dude writes _"An internet group calling itself Anonymous has declared war on the Church of Scientology, in the form of an ominous posting to the YouTube site. 'In the statement, the group explained their goal as safeguarding the right to freedom of speech. "A spokesperson said that the group's goals include bringing an end to the financial exploitation of Church members and protecting the right to free speech, a right which they claim was consistently violated by the Church of Scientology in pursuit of its opponents." The press release also claimed that the Church of Scientology misused copyright and trademark law in order to remove criticism from websites including Digg and YouTube. The statement goes on to assert that the attacks from the group "will continue until the Church of Scientology reacts, at which point they will change strategy".' It should be noted that Slashdot users have had interactions with Scientology in the past as well."_ 


 *Read More...Slashdot.org*


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## Andrew Green

From a Interview with L Ron Hubbard Jr.

"Scientology and all the other cults are one-dimensional, and we live in a three-dimensional world.
Cults are as dangerous as drugs. They commit the highest crime: the rape of the soul."
L. Ron Hubbard Jr. 

The whole thing:

PDF: http://www.apologeticsindex.org/Penthouse Interview.pdf
HTML: http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache...ouse%20Interview.pdf&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us


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## shesulsa

I put off my morning chores to read these.  I think everyone should take the time to read them. Everyone.

I want to say I didn't know what I started here ... but I have become enlightened to the ways of this ... organization.



Andrew Green said:


> From a Interview with L Ron Hubbard Jr.
> 
> "Scientology and all the other cults are one-dimensional, and we live in a three-dimensional world.
> Cults are as dangerous as drugs. They commit the highest crime: the rape of the soul."
> L. Ron Hubbard Jr.
> 
> The whole thing:
> 
> PDF: http://www.apologeticsindex.org/Penthouse Interview.pdf
> HTML: http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache...ouse%20Interview.pdf&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us


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## Bob Hubbard

That was a very long and interesting read.
I find it interesting when looked at in conjunction with the BBC article.


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## Xue Sheng

Andrew Green said:


> Science vs Scientology
> 
> I bet Stephen divides by zero and turns them inside out :lol:


 
That or they disappear in a puff of logic


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## kaizasosei

this guy really loses it....many would consider it a waste of energy. some would say it's inappropriate.   what do you think?


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## shesulsa

kaizasosei said:


> this guy really loses it....many would consider it a waste of energy. some would say it's inappropriate.   what do you think?


I would say that the incidences were also filmed by BBC cameras and are included in the video from a link previously posted here.  

I would also say it's very clear the CoS guy wants desperately to control the situation and resorts to approved vernacular and training to do so.  His argument is actually quite pathetic - and when one has no qualified argument they use similar tactics - avoid the questions, turn the attack around, repeatedly use attack tactics and speak over the other person so they never get to offer an intelligent response, ask an intelligent question and they NEVER ANSWER THE QUESTION.

We see the very same tactic used in politics today - I won't say by which party in particular because that's beside the point.

I would say that if anyone were hounding me and following me like the CoS man were I'd say he deserved what he got from the BBC reporter, though it certainly didn't accomplish much and I respect the man for going face-on and apologizing.  The analogy to the "role" he was playing was missed, I think and is termed an "excuse."

I also think that any church who will go to such lengths to defend their "faith" fully well know their practices are questionable at best and should be investigated.  By God, even the Catholic church has welcomed investigation.


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## kaizasosei

it would be better to see this more complete video

http://youtube.com/watch?v=dwTDvfjcUJU&feature=related



and this


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## jim777

Another one:

http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/Story?id=2664713


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## The Game

I'm bored.  Lets update.




> Scientology Given Direct Access To eBay Database
> Posted by kdawson on Tuesday February 19, @02:48PM
> An anonymous reader writes "The Church of Scientology can delete auctions from eBay with no supervision under the VeRO program, and has used this to delete all resale of the e-meters Scientologists use. This is to stop members from buying used units from ex-members instead of buying from the official (and very expensive) source. Given Scientology's record of fraud and abuse, should eBay give them this level of trust? Will this set a precedent for other companies that want to stop the aftermarket resale of their products?"



Oh, so what about the Feb. 10th protests?


> Anonymous Reflects on Feb. 10
> 
> forums.enturbulation.org  As we reflect upon the tenth of February, we are pleased to announce that our day of action has been crowned with great success. A wave of demonstrations spearheaded by Anonymous has swept the world. *These spanned four continents, occurring in over 90 cities and involving over 7300 individuals in total*.



The next event of our campaign is scheduled for March 15. Beware the Ides of March, Church of Scientology!


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## Andrew Green

The Game said:


> Oh, so what about the Feb. 10th protests?



The protests looked incredibly surreal, and where definately the work of Anonymous. And yes, they even Rick Rolled the Church:

[yt]l3vek-CVNFg[/yt]

Some pictures:
http://www.rob-sheridan.com/tourist/scientology/

More pictures, with a right up of what happened:
http://deathboy.livejournal.com/1082404.html


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## Bob Hubbard

There was one in Buffalo despite the -14 wind chill I heard.  This is part of a first person report I was CCed a few days ago. I wasn't there myself though I had considered swinging by and taking some photos. (Despite growing up in Buffalo, I am not an artic animal, lol). I'll be checking to see if Artvoice publishes any coverage. I don't recall seeing anything in the Buffalo News or on tv, but I rarely change channels from HGTV as of late, LOL!



> - The wind chill was reported between -10F and -20F during the protest, and sometime between 1-2pm, a head count by Chuck Beatty (long time ex-Scientologist from Pittsburg) showed 39 people, possibly including 1-2 members of the press, but not himself.  There was an appearance of a member of the "Operation Clambake" forums (www.xenu.net) who videotaped us for a couple hours and interviewed Chuck (
> 
> 
> 
> ).  Other people came as far as Rochester and Fredonia, and some were students from UB, ECC, and possibly other area colleges.  (Apart from Chuck, I may have been the oldest one there, but you could hardly tell the gender let alone the age of many of the protestors the way they were dressed.)
> 
> - There were two sets of police: two off-duty officers hired by the church, and usually two on-duty with a squad car, though later on they were all mostly inside staying warm.  We were told not to enter the street itself, and one person wearing a Guy Fawkes (V for Vendetta) mask was asked to remove it, citing state law prohibiting such.  Most people covered their faces with scarves, hats, and sunglasses.  Anonymous had contacted the police requesting support earlier in the week, and was also told we could not use bullhorns.  Either way, the standard plan for all protests was to be across the street from them at all times.
> 
> ....
> 
> - The event was also covered by a local reported from WikiNews (http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Wikinew...us"_holds_anti-Scientology_protests_worldwide).  I believe someone from ArtVoice was there as well (didn't see the article yet).  The UB Spectrum wrote about it (http://spectrum.buffalo.edu/article.php?id=35258) and received editorials back and forth about it.  There was no television news coverage that we know of.


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## The Game

Scientology: Jason Beghe Interview Pt.1
http://www.vimeo.com/919064
The actor discusses his experiences with the cult

Anonymous plans MAY 10th - Operation: Fair Game: STOP
[yt]H7JAmDxFCzE[/yt]

They stole my tag line! Those bastards! :rofl:


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## AnOnYmOuS

Anonymous declares a Summer of Siege
[yt]jTHlCJGK5sI[/yt]


Hello, leadership of Scientology.

We are, Anonymous. Presently, you have successfully manipulated Youtube, to remove the accounts of two major detractors of your criminal organization.

Whether or not these accounts remain suspended, it is your criminal activities, which are unacceptable, and will not be tolerated.

Also recently, you sent your terrorist wing the OSA, to stalk and expose some of our members, and use the law, to harass them. They may have fallen or not, but already many more Anonymous, galvanized by your terrorist acts, have joined our popular uprising, and have taken up their cause.

We have decided, to punish you, for your actions against us, and others, as well as to further our aim, to peacefully deconstruct your organization. We have determined, to take an immediate course of action, which we believe, you will not find pleasant at all.

Your criminal acts, to destroy detractors and defectors on the internet, and on the streets of the worlds free nations, grow increasingly desperate.

Desperation precedes panic.

Celebrities are beginning to publicly leave Scientology. European Nations move ever more boldly against Scientology, to suppress your criminal activities.

You obviously recognize, there are cracks appearing and widening, in the façade of power you maintain, to control your staff and victims.

We anticipated this day would come.

And we have planned how to take advantage, of your own foolish actions.
Previously peaceful Anonymous demonstrators have been appearing at your doors monthly. You call us terrorists, and try to intimidate us, with your own terror campaign, even covertly producing a video, threatening to bomb yourselves, and falsely claiming it came from us.

That was stupid.

No one has forgotten what Scientology did to Paulette Cooper.

To punish you, we are declaring a Summer Siege of Scientology.

For the months of May, June, July and August, all Anonymous members, are being encouraged to give the demonstrations, an extra hour or two. Everyone who can will come out for the major demonstrations. And everyone who can will show up, whenever possible, in groups of at least five. These, Guerilla Demonstrations, will be especially effective as they will occur without pattern or warning, other than to the local authorities, to inform them of our peaceful intent.

We intend that every time you look out your windows and doors, you will likely see some of us. We will constantly remind you, your staff your members, the general public and especially the local and national governments, of the many crimes of Scientology.
The violation of the Human Rights of your staff, and the abuse of their children, as well as the continued application of your cruel Disconnection Policy, are reasons enough to lay siege to Scientology.

However, there are a few key crimes of Scientology we wish to focus world attention on, at this time.

We will lay siege, because Scientology as a matter of your corporate policy called Fair Game, you actively seek to destroy, any detractors and defectors who expose, or oppose, your illegal conduct, and criminal methods.

We will lay siege, because Scientology, also as a matter of your corporate policy called Fair Game, you continue to actively intimidate the media into silence, and you continue internet cyber terrorist attacks, in an attempt to silence your opponents, of the communication generation.

We will lay siege to you, to peacefully express, our righteous outrage at your morally bankrupt, and un ethical practices, because criminally convicted Scientology, currently continues, to condone and conduct, criminal activities in many nations.

We will lay siege to you, because it is our right and because we can

We will always be there, to remind you of your crimes.

We will always be there, to help those who wish to escape your heartless grasp.

We are the free speaking peoples of the world.

We are watching.
We are waiting.
We are, Legion.
We do not forgive.
We do not forget.
Expect us.


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## Dagney Taggert

The scariest part of his nonsense is the number of people who are obviously buying into it.  He is basically asking us to depend on him because he can HELP us.  It's the same message that we are hearing from certain candidates for office, "I can help you, you need my help, let me take care of you, you are stepped on and downtrodden, you've been in a car accident, I am the ONLY one who can help you".  There are a lot of lazy people in the world for whom this sounds like a pretty good set up.  

Self responsibility and self reliance are dying arts.


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## MA-Caver

Well this is interesting... the so called Bible of the Church Of Scientology has been "leaked" here 





> :S.c.i.e.n.t.o.l.o.g.y. "Bible" leaked
> Submitted by blackhawk9 on Tue, 2008-04-29 04:28. leaks | religion | scams
> S.c.i.e.n.t.o.l.o.g.y. "Bible" leaked
> 
> The 'S.c.i.e.n.t.o.l.o.g.y. Bible' (periods added to make this post more difficult for church attorneys to find) has been leaked to Wikileaks.Org. This is the real deal, their 615 page instruction manual. Now we can all become 'Clears' without having to deal with the cult of S.c.i.e.n.t.o.l.o.g.y.
> 
> Of course, the cult of s.c.i.e.n.t.o.l.o.g.y. is about to take legal action against Wikileaks.Org, so download the PDF now while you still can.
> http://www.wikileaks.org/wiki/Church_of_Scientology's_'Operating_Thetan'_documents_leaked_online



You can supposedly download the PDF of the bible here: http://file.sunshinepress.org:54445/scientology-ot-levels.pdf 
Might be interesting reading... no?


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## AnOnYmOuS

On February 10th, a group that calls themselves Anonymous took to the streets in protest against Scientology.

In 15 minutes, this video attempts to tell the story of the events leading up to and including the actions that took place on February 10th across the globe.

The videos and photographs were taken by the participants of these protests and the owners, who can't possibly all be named or known, deserve the credit for the footage I was able to pull together.

Part 1
[yt]HsSQEaAaDxg[/yt]

Part 2
[yt]odYp0QpLC8Q[/yt]

Beyond February 10th, beyond the hype and beyond the anticipation, Anonymous predicts a public outpouring of attention on the actions of the Church of Scientology. No longer will they be simply dismissed as a small sect of people with strange beliefs, but as a dangerous menace that needs to be rubbed out.

As Anonymous descends full force on Scientology organizations worldwide in protest, the media will have no choice but to acknowledge the very real war in which we are waging against them. They will be forced to discuss our motives, investigate the facts which with we use to fight them, and show where their allegiance lies.

Be not mistaken, Scientologists will be quick to label us as monsters, even as they are monsters, unleashing their propaganda and spin doctors upon the media like lions unto their prey. As an organization of individuals lead by no one, we have no such luxury. We must remain vigilant and steadfast in our course; we must not be swayed or disheartened, but believe that a public armed with knowledge will be able to push through the web of lies and see the truth.

Social unrest will follow social awareness, social revolt will follow social outcry, and at the end of all of this there will be change.

*February 10th was just the beginning.*

[yt]HJlWyeqmVnw[/yt]

*The Un-Funny TRUTH about Scientology* *Mod Note Warning - Video contains some footage that may be disturbing.*

[yt]rCGP-0545EU[/yt]



May 10th 2008. Mark the date.


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## Bob Hubbard

I added a warning as that last video was a bit disturbing.  Please note such things in the future.

Also, please be aware of our religious tolerance policy and be respectful towards all of our members, some of whom may be Scientologists.

Thank you.


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## AnOnYmOuS

Understood. My goal is to provide information so that others may make up their own minds. The beliefs of individual Scientologists is not what we are against, but the criminal behaviour of the organization itself.
I will mark sensitive footage in the future.


*Scientology's Lawyers ATTACK Anonymous*
[yt]jylTfMiVJak[/yt]

Scientology's founder, L Ron Hubbard, detailed his rules for attacking critics in a letter that has become known as "The Fair Game Policy" letter.

This states, "Anyone who's been declared an enemy of scientology may be deprived of property or injured by any means ... may be tricked, sued or lied to or destroyed."

A favoured Co$ method of destroying perceived enemies is to criminalize them and bankrupt them in protracted litigation.

The end of April 2008 saw Scientology's first litigious act against a member of Anonymous -- Gregg Housh in Boston, US. Housh is to be tried on charges of Criminal Harassment because he was the one who registered Anonymous' Boston protest Permits in February and March.

In addition, on March 1 2008, Housh and a group of protesters, were handing out fliers in downtown Boston to publicize the upcoming March 15 Protest. Several of the group entered the Co$ premises on 448 Beacon Street to distribute leaflets detailing the upcoming protest. This intent was to inform the church so that they could prepare for it and inform their Parishioners. Housh actually remained OUTSIDE of the church (on the footpath) throughout.

However the Co$ has twisted and maligned this courteous gesture and has decided that these actions constitute Criminal Harassment. This attempt by the Church of Scientology to Litigate against Housh, if successful, will mean that he will lose his freedom to exercise his First Amendment right to "Free Speech".

This will set a dangerous precedent for any and all Individuals wishing to peacefully and legally speak out against ANY organization.

The Church of Scientology is also trying to claim that the concealing of identities during the Protests (with V for Vendetta or Guy Fawkes masks) is grounds for harassment, citing that the concealed faces are threatening and intimidating.
What a Crock.

However, as previously stated to the media, Anonymous members choose to shield their identities due to the Co$'s history of harassing critics. Previous critics of the Church of Scientology who have faced legal repercussions include Joan Wood, Bob Minton and Time Magazine. This does not include the harassment of critics such as Mark Bunker, Paulette Cooper and Tory Christman.

As things stand, The US Supreme Court believes that groups have the right to assemble anonymously when in fear of retribution or retaliation.
In Housh's case, this is exactly what the Co$ is attempting to overturn - the right to peacefully assemble and protest anonymously.

The Pre-Trial Hearing of Scientology v Gregg Housh is set for May 29 2008.


===


Join Anonymous in our peaceful protest against the 'church' of Scientology.

More information about our protests:
www.goanonymous.org
www.xenu.net
www.whyweprotest.net

Find your local protest hub via
www.enturbulation.org


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## AnOnYmOuS

*To Scientology ~ WHY?*
[yt]kxIKoiqN9L8[/yt]

*Six Questions for Scientologists*
[yt]gpLNj8dYvf4[/yt]

*Anonymous Message to Scientology IV*




[yt]udjIIA07KOM[/yt]


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## AnOnYmOuS

*The COS has now begun it's counter attack.*
Businesses are being forced to ban Anonymous or face punishment.
http://blackfish.biz/allen/?p=255
http://forums.enturbulation.org/7-general-discussion/anti-anonymous-signs-store-windows-13419/2/
http://blackfish.biz/allen/
http://forums.enturbulation.org/98-...-starbucks-being-boycotted-scientology-13040/

*May 10 protests continued to open eyes to the abuses of the COS.*

*Another protest is scheduled for June 14th.*
http://forums.enturbulation.org/110-june-14th-global-protest/sea-org-facts-13240/


----------

