# HIPAA laws and you



## CNida (Mar 16, 2014)

As a hospital employee or generally anyone that works in a healthcare environment, you can probably agree with me that HIPAA laws, specifically pertaining to patient privacy, can be very confining.

As a hospital employee I am expected to abide by the privacy rule set out in HIPAA. As a security officer I am put in precarious situations as it is, and I have a lot of contact with local law enforcement, usually on a daily basis.

Here is an issue I was faced with tonight. There was this guy who claimed he was walking down the stairs at his apartment and that he slipped, fell, and landed on some sort of fence post. The wound went as deep as his diaphragm. At any rate - turns out the dude stretched the truth just a bit... He didn't fall on anything. He was stabbed by a seven inch "military style" knife. The dude gave a fake name and while the police were investigating, it turns out the dude is wanted for aggravated assault with a weapon, and a shooting. And parole violation. Since the dude is receiving medical care the police obviously can't act on the warrant and take him to jail at risk for his own safety so they leave him in the hospital. 

I will cut to the chase here: the city police didn't have cause to arrest other than a warrant issued by the county.

City cops inform county that the guy is here right? So they already know that. Well, we don't get along perfectly with the city cops but we have a standing rapport with county sheriff's deputies. 

A deputy sergeant calls for me specifically, assuming some amount of cooperation from me, and asks if the guy is indeed here. I, surrounded by nurses, am required to give the biggest line of BS to someone I believe had a legal right to know.

"Sir I am legally bound by HIPAA laws in such a way that I can not confirm or deny that patient resides here currently." Which is hard for me to do because I disagree with the situation.

I speak to him via phone in a more discreet location, and he asks if I can call it in when the guy is released, which, I am told, is a violation of HIPAA laws.

Heres my issue: dude has a felony warrant. A parole violation. Has been involved in a violent crime, and now, is protected from the police because of "patient privacy laws".

I'd like to hear some opinions on this, from law enforcement officers and hopefully even healthcare workers as well. What is up with this? How is it a violation of privacy for the police to know when its okay to make an arrest. My take? As long as the patient is allowed to heal, in an environment CONDUCIVE to healing.... Why does it matter if we call the police when the guy is up for discharge from the hospital? Since when is a criminal's right to privacy about his healthcare information more important than him facing justice? Especially since inmates have to disclose medical information in jails and prisons so they can receive treatment??? 

I mean come on....


____________________________

"Knowledge speaks, but wisdom listens."


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## wingchun100 (Mar 17, 2014)

What if you called once he was outside the hospital and no longer a patient? Or are they trying to say THAT is a violation too?


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## CNida (Mar 17, 2014)

Thats what I was thinking too but... Then I would be saying, in an indirect way, that the guy's been released from the hospital, which I apparently can't do.

What I wanted to do was tell then as soon as he was off the property but... Yeah.


____________________________

"Knowledge speaks, but wisdom listens."


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## Dirty Dog (Mar 17, 2014)

This isn't remotely a HIPPA issue.

It's an assault. That means it's reported. The city cops don't want him, but they notify the county cops. If they want him, they come to the hospital and arrest him, right then and there, and he is a prisoner throughout his stay. End of issue.

And HIPPA does not prohibit acknowledging the presence of a patient; it prohibits releasing medical information. Their existence is not a secret.


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## CNida (Mar 17, 2014)

Dirty Dog said:


> This isn't remotely a HIPPA issue.
> 
> It's an assault. That means it's reported. The city cops don't want him, but they notify the county cops. If they want him, they come to the hospital and arrest him, right then and there, and he is a prisoner throughout his stay. End of issue.
> 
> And HIPPA does not prohibit acknowledging the presence of a patient; it prohibits releasing medical information. Their existence is not a secret.



Thank you.

Either I have been misinformed or the hospital has an agenda.

The higher ups in the hospital get upset when the police come looking a certain someone because they believe the police shouldnt have any jurisdiction in the hospital when it comes to arresting a patient that wasnt already under arrest prior to coming in to the hospital. And guess what? They expect me to tell the police not to come in, but thats a gripe for another day. 

If I am not violating HIPAA in any way by telling the police when a patient is discharged then I wonder why they are telling me to tell that to the police.


____________________________

"Knowledge speaks, but wisdom listens."


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## aedrasteia (Mar 17, 2014)

CNida

I think DD is right, in relation to confirmation to LE that an individual is present. 
HIPPA requirements are different if LE are involved re: arrest/detaining/notification.

However, HIPPA does limit disclosure/confirmation of patient's presence to unauthorized 
persons (via patient permission): for example, a domestic violence survivor requests 
no disclosure to anyone other than a list of specific persons.

is the situation resolved in an OK way now?  if yes - go to the appropriate person up the line
and use the confusion around this (now resolved) situation to get a clear policy on 
notification of LE when a patient is present @ your hospital and is also involved in a LE issue 
(pending warrant, detained under arrest, etc.) 

HIPPA can be _very_ confusing and is widely misunderstood and misinterpreted. 
Hospital legal counsel may have blanket, unworkable policies because they fear penalties 
connected to unauthorized disclosures.

"If I am not violating HIPAA in any way by telling the police when a patient is discharged then I wonder why they are telling me to tell that to the police."

They may not understand that its not a HIPPA violation. 
 HIPPA is very confusing;  admin may fear that a wrong guess leaves facility liable for civil damages.

sorry you are put in a squeeze.


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## Tgace (Mar 17, 2014)

Someone being there or not is not a HIPPA issue when dealing with LE. LE asking what ailemnt he has or what treatment he is getting is/may be. 

I have sat next to many people cuffed to a hospital bed. Interfere with my lawful duties at your peril. 

Hospitals are not law free zones....all that deputy needs is the cop who dropped the subject off to tell him that the offender is indeed there and he could force his way in to take him into custody. Or get a search warrant to come find him. That most likely wont happen due to "get along" factors....but it could.

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## Tgace (Mar 17, 2014)

City should have sat there till the guy was handed off to County...or at least spoke to someone at County to confirm his presence.

That man was in custody the moment those officers knew he had a felony warrant.

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## CNida (Mar 17, 2014)

Unfortunately its not like that. The guy is in a room, unsupervised other than what contact he has with healthcare workers.

Thats what I find odd.


____________________________

"Knowledge speaks, but wisdom listens."


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## wingchun100 (Mar 18, 2014)

CNida said:


> Unfortunately its not like that. The guy is in a room, unsupervised other than what contact he has with healthcare workers.
> 
> Thats what I find odd.
> 
> ...



While they are there, the cops should investigate the hospital administration. LOL


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