# another 'what should I ask?' at this school thread



## jim777 (Jul 6, 2009)

This school opened about a mile from my house about a year or so ago. I haven't had the time to go over and check them out, as I haven't had the money for classes. Now, I'm thinking of going over and checking the place out, but I have no idea what questions I should be asking when I get there (I have no worthwhile CMA background).
Any ideas? Does this place seem like complete nonsense? (Shaolin temple = Not; any other things I should be aware of here?) I'm not expecting much, but if its a decent school that would be cool. 

http://www.shaolintemplenj.com/

thanks in advance


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## clfsean (Jul 6, 2009)

jim777 said:


> This school opened about a mile from my house about a year or so ago. I haven't had the time to go over and check them out, as I haven't had the money for classes. Now, I'm thinking of going over and checking the place out, but I have no idea what questions I should be asking when I get there (I have no worthwhile CMA background).
> Any ideas? Does this place seem like complete nonsense? (Shaolin temple = Not; any other things I should be aware of here?) I'm not expecting much, but if its a decent school that would be cool.
> 
> http://www.shaolintemplenj.com/
> ...



Hmmm... after looking at their website, I'd start with what exactly they're teaching. The website was full of chaff & fluff with no concrete info. In the pictures, there are 2 mook yan jongs (wooden men dummies). Those aren't something you see often in the Songshan Shaolin, if at all. I'm not saying they don't exist, but I've never seen them since Songshan regained popularity & exposure. Those are more common in the south.

There's only a single name (Sifu Lu) but no info on him/her. The videos are movie clips (commercial movies). 

Just that there's no info there really bugs me.


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## JadecloudAlchemist (Jul 6, 2009)

Well according to the site they are teaching:Five animal form I don't know if he is teaching the styles as listed in the origin section but that might make sense of the Mook. He also claims to be a Shaolin Monk. I thought Shaolin monks say what generation and their Shaolin monk name.
There really is not much to go on. No history of who was the teacher. Clfsean mentioned Sifu Lu but that is a common name so who knows.
No mention on what style of Taiji. Pictures of the school but no pictures of student or teacher? Videos of Jet Li WTF?!.  According to this he is a Church/Temple: http://www.charity-charities.org/charityinfo.php?ID=728377&page=1

This is interesting:
http://www.amsinvestor.com/pdf/augnews..pdf

This is also interesting: http://www.manta.com/coms2/dnbcompany_77lq8f


> Deductions: Contributions are deductible Foundation Type: Church Organization Type: Corporation Filing Requirement: 990 - Not required to file (church). No 990PF return. Fiscal Year End Date: December Asset Amount: $0 Income Amount: $0 Form 990 Revenue Amount: $0 Organization Type: Buddhist


So what I don't get is you are a charity but also a company that makes:


> Est. Annual Sales:$36,000


 Something seems odd to me.


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## jim777 (Jul 6, 2009)

I thought it sounded ok, from a...spiritual? sort of angle, but I also didn't see anything about the taiji style, or anything else. 'Class schedules' never actually comes up, and nothing at all about what is actually taught. I thought the pics of the empty school and clips of movies were very odd myself, but I guess it is possible this guy has no students. TKD is everywhere down here, most of it worthless (but most parents can't tell, so they thrive). i can't ever remember anyone going in or out in all the times I've passed it, I actually thought it would be arestaurant or something by now 

So, what style is actually taught, what taiji style is taught, anything else obvious?


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## clfsean (Jul 6, 2009)

jim777 said:


> So, what style is actually taught, what taiji style is taught, anything else obvious?



How long has he been teaching? 
What's his teachning philosophy?
How are applications taught?
How much application training is done?
How much body conditioning is done?
What kind of hei gung (qi gong) is practiced?
What is the exact name of the styles taught?
Who did he learn from? 
How long was he an active student?


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## clfsean (Jul 6, 2009)

JadecloudAlchemist said:


> Well according to the site they are teaching:Five animal form I don't know if he is teaching the styles as listed in the origin section but that might make sense of the Mook. He also claims to be a Shaolin Monk. I thought Shaolin monks say what generation and their Shaolin monk name.



I don't buy into the 5 Animal routine really. There's one school that focuses on it. But in the same breath I can name a handful of styles that are all 5 Animal users & abusers (CLF is one of them). 

The Songshan monks always give their generation & generational name except for a handful that left the order. The trick is though is most of the Northern systems don't focus/call the 5 Animals as a primary technique.

That to me makes me want to ask questions. 

The other stuff... that's a different story. The name itself could cause problems for him if it's heard of in Dengfeng without the proper pomp, circumstance & other things heading back that way.


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## DergaSmash (Jul 13, 2009)

That Shaolin stuff makes me nervous....

I understand the history behind shaolin and what it did for CMAs but now it is a big cash cow. Especially because there is hardly and regulation in MS schools so really anyone can start one. Go in ask a lot of questions, get a class for free. Get the lineage. Talk to the other students. Don't pay anything up front.


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## clfsean (Jul 14, 2009)

Jim... you ever hear anything on this?


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## girlbug2 (Jul 14, 2009)

clfsean said:


> There's only a single name (Sifu Lu) but no info on him/her. *The videos are movie clips (commercial movies*).
> 
> .


 
Red flag right there.


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## jim777 (Jul 14, 2009)

clfsean said:


> Jim... you ever hear anything on this?



I haven't gotten over there yet, unfortunately. I have sent them a  few emails requesting class times, and when I could drop by, but I haven't gotten any of them returned.

I have a couple of problems, the first being I work 100 miles from my house, and the commute is a long one. There is great CMA in NYC where I work, but all the classes seem to start at 7:30 PM which would get me home after class at 1AM, which doesn't work for me. This one is close to home, but seems to be far less than what's available in Manhattan. The instructor here seems to have been a Kung fu movie stuntman in China for 11 years, so I'm guessing that he teaches now what he learned then.

Second, I just want an honest no-BS style taught by someone with experience as an instructor; I don't care if its northern or southern. I want something I can do when I'm 65 though. TKD, which I currently study, isn't the answer to that  I'm just hitting a lot of brick walls in my search for a CMA school. Member 'mfinn' pointed his Sifu out to me (http://www.taichi108.com/masteryu.html), and I'm grateful for the hookup  but the class times don't work for me, which is a pity.

Anyway, I should get a chance to go knock on the door of this place on Saturday coming, so I'll have something to report back on this place one way or the other this weekend.

Maybe I should just open a 'find Jim a CMA school' thread :lol:


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## clfsean (Jul 14, 2009)

IIRC you're kinda in a funky spot there in NJ where's there's not a lot to choose from right? I know of a couple of places that might've been shot down because of drive time involved. Does that sound right?


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## jim777 (Jul 14, 2009)

Yeah, I'm just south of Philly near Cherry Hill. It's all TKD down here, but at least I've got a good TKD school that is self defense oriented and not a belt factory. Philly's no good either, really, as I don't get back from work early enough to go to class.

I've also got a bus that goes from NYC Port  to South Jersey with no stops, so anything in North or mid-Jersey is also not an option.


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## blindsage (Jul 14, 2009)

I found a couple of CMA places in your area you might want to check out:

Wing Chun 
http://www.wingchunkungfukwoon.com/Home.html

Shaolin Pai, Wing Chun, Tai Chi
http://www.mastersonskungfu.com/index.php

Wing Chun
http://www.traditionalwingchun.com/index.php

Southern Praying Mantis (learned from Gin Foon Mark)
http://www.geocities.com/martyeisen/Pmwebpage.htm

Tai Chi, Bagua
http://www.silvertigertaichi.com/

Dragon style Kung fu
http://www.lungjoppai.com/

I'm sure there are a lot more. 

edit: I posted this after your last post and didn't see it.  Some of these won't work then, but others still might.


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## clfsean (Jul 14, 2009)

If Cherry Hill is an option, I'd go see the guy from GFM's school.


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## jim777 (Jul 14, 2009)

Thanks a ton guys  I've contacted a few of those schools, including the Jook Lum Praying mantis school. 

you guys rock, seriously


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## Tensei85 (Jul 15, 2009)

I would 3rd the Jook Lum Tong Long School, just something about the Praying Mantis :ultracool


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## Jimf807 (Jul 15, 2009)

Instead of starting another post I figured I would just piggy back off of this one.  I am looking at a school right around the corner from my house.  I have no experience with CMA.  I have done some research myself but most of the info I found about the owner/Sifu was confirmed through Wikipedia which has been known to be inaccurate.  Just wanting the opinion of people familiar with CMA.  


Here is their website http://www.mengsmartialarts.com/ 

Thanks in advance

Jim.


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## clfsean (Jul 15, 2009)

Jimf807 said:


> Instead of starting another post I figured I would just piggy back off of this one.  I am looking at a school right around the corner from my house.  I have no experience with CMA.  I have done some research myself but most of the info I found about the owner/Sifu was confirmed through Wikipedia which has been known to be inaccurate.  Just wanting the opinion of people familiar with CMA.
> 
> 
> Here is their website http://www.mengsmartialarts.com/
> ...



From what I hear he's a little unconventional in his views on Wing Chun & all, but nothing I've read (which honestly isn't that much) questions his hands.

You'd probably be better served asking this in the Wing Chun forum.


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## bowser666 (Jul 15, 2009)

Definitely a lot of flags here.  Lineage is a big thing in Kung Fu. You want to know the roots of the training you will be taking. Shaolin is also a flag sometimes.  If their lineage can prove it then you are good. Some places use the 10 degrees of Kevin Bacon style approach.  Not sure if anyone will get that    My suggestion would be to go, and ask questions, see for yourself, don't judge based on the website.  Pose some of the questions that other thread contributors have posed and see what responses you get.  if you have to write them down and take a list with you.  This will show that you are serious. Good luck and let us know what turns up


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## jim777 (Jul 16, 2009)

Looks like Jook Lum Praying Mantis starts Tuesday


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## clfsean (Jul 16, 2009)

jim777 said:


> Looks like Jook Lum Praying Mantis starts Tuesday



Rock on!!!!! I really think you'll like it. It's nothing like you've done before & three of the seniors here in the US (Gin Foon Mark, Louie Jack Man, Henry Poo Yee) are all up in age a bit but still teach (LJM is in Philly) & move with no problems. It's not taiji but a long shot, but it doesn't have a lot of the strenuous physical requirements like say Northern Shaolin.


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## jim777 (Jul 16, 2009)

Yeah, I'm psyched to go  No commercial school nonsense, uniforms, tests, they don't sell anything....just training. I'm hoping this is the one, but I'll go for a while anyway regardless.


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## Tensei85 (Jul 16, 2009)

jim777 said:


> Yeah, I'm psyched to go  No commercial school nonsense, uniforms, tests, they don't sell anything....just training. I'm hoping this is the one, but I'll go for a while anyway regardless.



Agreed, that was a big turn off for me personally. Just training and nothing else, now that's great!


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## blindsage (Jul 16, 2009)

Awesome Jim!  Jook Lum is different, but based on your interests I think you'll like it.  Glad our efforts could be of some help.


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## jim777 (Jul 20, 2009)

Tensei85 said:


> Agreed, that was a big turn off for me personally. Just training and nothing else, now that's great!



Agreed. What annoys me is when I'm told I can't test because the instructors don't want to test too many people at once and I tested at the last test (I was actually told exactly this a few weeks ago). Not because I'm desperate for promotion, but because like a lot of schools with belt systems they won't teach you past your belt rank. So, I'm currently stuck until at least next March (the next test) with no chance of learning anything new in my TKD class, because I tested earlier this year. That sort of thing annoys me greatly. I'd rather master and move on at the pace at which I can absorb and learn, than master, wait until test time to prove you've mastered it, then move on again. How much new material you can learn before you can learn any more is pretty clearly defined in most karate/tkd schools by the belt ranking system. So, I'm really REALLY looking forward to losing the ranking system, or at least making it seem like its gone. I'm more than happy to have my instructor determine when its time for me to learn something new by my shown ability and diligence, and not by what it says on the calendar.


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## Tensei85 (Jul 22, 2009)

jim777 said:


> Agreed. What annoys me is when I'm told I can't test because the instructors don't want to test too many people at once and I tested at the last test (I was actually told exactly this a few weeks ago). Not because I'm desperate for promotion, but because like a lot of schools with belt systems they won't teach you past your belt rank. So, I'm currently stuck until at least next March (the next test) with no chance of learning anything new in my TKD class, because I tested earlier this year. That sort of thing annoys me greatly. I'd rather master and move on at the pace at which I can absorb and learn, than master, wait until test time to prove you've mastered it, then move on again. How much new material you can learn before you can learn any more is pretty clearly defined in most karate/tkd schools by the belt ranking system. So, I'm really REALLY looking forward to losing the ranking system, or at least making it seem like its gone. I'm more than happy to have my instructor determine when its time for me to learn something new by my shown ability and diligence, and not by what it says on the calendar.



I hear ya, there are pro's to the ranking system. But I'm just as happy with out it lol.


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## clfsean (Jul 23, 2009)

So Jim... how was it??


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## jim777 (Jul 23, 2009)

Very different. To start, it is much more informal than my TKD training, which is more informal than my Seido training. There is only one other student besides myself. The instructor, Dr. Eisen, is an older man - I would guess he's in his 90's. I learned a few stances, and some stretching exercises, so I've been practicing them diligiently. I like it, but it will take me a little time to get used to it 

It really is like night and day from what I've done before, but the 'one on one' is very cool. I do wonder what kind of sparring there might ever be, but I'm pretty far away from knowing all the prerequistes for that so I'm not worried, just curious. It's Tuesdays and Thursdays, so that fits for me as well. So, so far so good!


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