# Dojo Training: 40s & 50s



## 'Ailina (May 30, 2008)

Hello, everyone.

I'm new to the MartialTalk.com forums, and this is my first post. I hope this is the appropriate place for my question.

My question is for any practitioners who may have trained in Kenpo/Kempo between in the 40s and/or 50s.  I'm most interested in what may have taken place in Hawai'i during that time, but I'm curious to read responses from anyone who may have trained then.

What were some of the ways students "toughened up" or worked on strength and endurance in the dojo during that time?

I've heard things before, like kneeling on rice; spearing sand, pebbles, rice; etc.  I know some of the things I've heard may be legend or exaggerations, but I'd really like to know some methods that really took place.

For example:  my father once said they used to punch boards with bottle caps mounted on them.  Someone suggested this might have been an alternative to punching boards wrapped with rope cord.

Did anyone here do this?  Or have you heard of similar training?

Looking forward to reading more in the forums and getting to know all of you.  Thanks...
'Ailina


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## dkpd2200 (Aug 15, 2008)

Welcome. I'm fairly new to this website myself. That is true. Alot of martial art practitioners used those types of items to toughen their body. That's really all they had back then. They had to improvise. Now, martial arts are alot more common. You can go to any one of the numerous websites and get all kinds of training accessories. I practice Muay Thai and Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. I know that the Muay Thai fighters would kick bananna tree's to toughen their shins. It seems like every art form has a unique connection with nature, and how they utilize it in their training routines.


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## John Bishop (Aug 15, 2008)

Just heard various stories from the Hawaiian old timers.  Banana trees were used as makiwara and for stick training, because the trees were heavy and dense, but had some give to them.   Like very dense sponge.  The old timers would always have a hand size canvas makiwara or flat rock to carry around and punch.  And makiwaras were pretty easy to make with some 2x4's and canvas or rope.
They would mix spit and cigarette ashes together and apply it to their knuckles while working the makiwara.  That sort of tattooed their knuckles black, and made them very noticeable.  
Like this:


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## Kenpobrother (Nov 24, 2008)

John Bishop said:


> Just heard various stories from the Hawaiian old timers. Banana trees were used as makiwara and for stick training, because the trees were heavy and dense, but had some give to them. Like very dense sponge. The old timers would always have a hand size canvas makiwara or flat rock to carry around and punch. And makiwaras were pretty easy to make with some 2x4's and canvas or rope.
> They would mix spit and cigarette ashes together and apply it to their knuckles while working the makiwara. That sort of tattooed their knuckles black, and made them very noticeable.
> Like this:


 
Professor Bishop,

Were the ashes used to aid the training, or just to highlight an already frightening fist?

Years ago I saw an article with a picture of Professor Chow's hands.  The caption was 'The knuckles developed by Professor chow'.  Sadly I lost the issue.  Was that your work?

Brown


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## John Bishop (Nov 24, 2008)

Kenpobrother said:


> Professor Bishop,
> 
> Were the ashes used to aid the training, or just to highlight an already frightening fist?
> 
> Brown



I seem to recall being told it was for a tattooing effect, to make the knuckles look really prominent.  




Kenpobrother said:


> Years ago I saw an article with a picture of Professor Chow's hands.  The caption was 'The knuckles developed by Professor chow'.  Sadly I lost the issue.  Was that your work?
> 
> Brown



I don't think it was one of my articles, since I don't have a picture like that.  But sometimes the magazines would add some of their file photos
to a article.  
It's more likely it was one of the articles/interviews that the magazines did on Sam Kuoha.


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## Kenpobrother (Nov 24, 2008)

Thank you.

Brown


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## 'Ailina (Jun 14, 2009)

I apologize it's taken many months to revisit this thread.

Thank you for the information.  I didn't know about the ashes markings, but I find that so interesting you have a photo sample.

I remember my father's knuckles being dark like that, but I don't think it's because of ashes.  I think he just did a lot of work around the house. ;D


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## Bill Mattocks (Jun 14, 2009)

Life magazine has some photos of that era:

Life Magazine Karate Photos

Karate Knuckles:

Karate Knuckles Photo

TKD Face Cement Break:

Life Magazine TKD Cement Smash


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## seasoned (Jun 15, 2009)

'Ailina said:


> I apologize it's taken many months to revisit this thread.
> 
> Thank you for the information. I didn't know about the ashes markings, but I find that so interesting you have a photo sample.
> 
> I remember my father's knuckles being dark like that, but I don't think it's because of ashes. I think he just did a lot of work around the house. ;D


On a serious note, training was a bit extreme, way back when. What value, I am not sure, but a few times a month we would take a cold shower with our Gi's on, and then go out for training in the snow. Beach training was also used, it was hard getting balance for kata and sparring, while in the sand. We would also train in knee high water with kicks. Any kind of body protection was frowned on, and even made fun of. If you didn't use it in the street for self defense, then you didn't use it in class. Because of the bare knuckle sparring, it behooved us to condition our hands because of the occasional contact with an opponents elbow. This would sometimes slow us down, but never under any circumstances stop a match. Also, the conditioned knuckles really enhanced the striking power. All in all our training was geared for self defense and not for tournaments or competition, and for that reason nothing fancy was ever used, including high kicks. The training at times, was severe, because as a whole it is the mind that gives up first, so consequently, the never give up attitude, was instilled from day one.


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## 'Ailina (Jun 15, 2009)

Seasoned, that is absolutely fascinating.  I cannot imagine enduring that kind of training.

When you described the cold shower, training in the snow, I thought of what I read in Funakoshi's book, _Karate D&#333;_, about how he never did anything to counter the temperature.  When it was cold, he didn't eat warm food or dress warmly.  When it was hot, he didn't eat cold food or wear cool clothes.

You mentioned...


> "The training at times, was severe, because as a whole it is the mind that gives up first, so consequently, the never give up attitude, was instilled from day one."


Do you feel the severity of your training accomplished what it was intended to?


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## seasoned (Jun 15, 2009)

If you quit, no, if you survived, yes. Dojo's were small back then, it was more then some could handle. There was no coddling, if you started class, you finished class, no matter what. If you got hit, or hurt in any way, it was your fault, and your's alone. No passing the buck, this was the closest to combat you could come, in a training atmosphere.


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## Danjo (Jun 15, 2009)

The main thing from those days is that all training was very serious. People were there to learn how to fight and not for some social/ health club type of reason. The training was severe by modern standards for that reason. Sijo and others wanted people to "feel the techniques" so that they would understand how effective they were. People tried to push themselves past what other people could or would do normally, so that they could easily win a fight if they got into one. "The workout's not over till there's blood on the floor." was the motto of the early Kajukenbo schools, and people trained to exhaustion for the most part. Now..............well, things are different. There are still some with that approach, but for the most part it's toned down. Even those that train for fighting as their main focus, don't train as hard as the old days. It all comes down to intent (and insurance).


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## Twin Fist (Jun 15, 2009)

and liability


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## 'Ailina (Jun 15, 2009)

I assume there may still be dojos that train in this "old way," but I imagine there aren't many students.

I'm something of a purist (in matters not relative to martial arts, as well), so I have a preference against innovation and dilution, though I do acknowledge progress does have its place in the arts.

I'm thinking the place martial arts holds in present times is much different from the place it held in the 40s & 50s.  I wonder how WWII influenced practitioners/would-be practitioners.  I'm sure the war was on everyone's mind at the time, and surely that had some effect on how/how hard students trained?

Of course, our world is warring now, too, but I think individual mindset, context, and purposes for training are much different now.


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## Danjo (Jun 15, 2009)

'Ailina said:


> I assume there may still be dojos that train in this "old way," but I imagine there aren't many students.
> 
> I'm something of a purist (in matters not relative to martial arts, as well), so I have a preference against innovation and dilution, though I do acknowledge progress does have its place in the arts.
> 
> ...


 
It may have more to do with modern society in general. Kids are simply more sedintary than they used to be. They tend to play on computers rather than climb trees and fences. They play war games rather than rough house with each other. They've largely taken monkey bars and jungle gyms off of elementary school playgrounds, and kids have to wear helmets while riding their bikes (as opposed to jumping them off of home made ramps in the alleys like we used to.) You can't ride in the back of a pick-up and you have to wear seatbelts etc. Boy's have their hair styled and worry about their clothes. That mentality has permeated our society and culture, and has also seeped into the martial arts scene.


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## Xue Sheng (Jun 15, 2009)

I started long after the 50s training MA but you still had rather small dojos in the early 70s that trained with no protective gear, no mates and hard sparing at least that was my intro to MA in Jujitsu. I would not doubt it had softened up some since the 50s by that time but in the last 35 years things seem to have gotten unbelievably soft and I do think it is due mostly to liability and a sue happy society and then throw in what Danjo is talking about and let it keep going this way and you could end up with a black belt in pillow fighting.


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## 'Ailina (Jun 15, 2009)

(I hope I'm not drifting too far off-topic, but...)



Xue Sheng said:


> ...let it keep going this way and you could end up with a black belt in pillow fighting.



Do you think maybe this is why MMA is becoming so popular?  There's a desire for the hard "old school" training?

Or do you think MMA is a completely different animal?  By definition, I think it would be, but what about the fundamental training philosophy?  Are MMA training and the hard training in the 40s & 50s comparable?


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## Xue Sheng (Jun 15, 2009)

'Ailina said:


> (I hope I'm not drifting too far off-topic, but...)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
I think a little of both. 

MMA is popular so a lot of people go train it. Some like the hard training, some like the MA of the minute and other for various other reasons. What I see in the future of a lot of MMA schools (if it lasts long enough) is people making it easier so get more students.

But I will admit I have been tempted more than once to go to one of the local MMA schools to get back into some harder (but different) training and I will leave it at that a sure way to guarantee thread drift is to go into MMA stuff. 

I think the overall philosophy is different however. One trains to fight an opponent they may see in the next match one trains not to fight and if they do plans to never see that opponent again.


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## seasoned (Jun 15, 2009)

Not to step on toes, but a few cents to add. I feel that mind set is the big difference. In the old days there was nothing to prove to anyone, but yourself. If the mind set is geared toward competition, then that is foremost on your mind. Not to take anything away from anyone training in todays dojo, because there are a lot of karate people that train very hard. But in the day that we are all talking about here, it was for blood and guts, with a do or die mentality. We trained under all conditions, if something was broke, tape it, if something was sprained, wrap it. The whole idea was, self defense, didn't take time off. If we were hurt, we trained anyway.


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## 'Ailina (Jun 15, 2009)

seasoned said:


> Not to step on toes, but a few cents to add. I feel that mind set is the big difference. In the old days there was nothing to prove to anyone, but yourself.



Yes, I observed this in my father.  Even though I wasn't born yet in my father's early training, he did "speak from a different time period" at certain points in his life.

In the 70s and 80s, his dojo was very much wrapped up in competition, and so I think his personal purpose changed.  But there were times, especially when he would talk with friends from the "old school", when his early experience and training seemed to come over him like -- for lack of a better word -- a trance.

I think it a very provocative and intensely interesting subject, to explore how martial artists "straddled" two very different eras of training.  I acknowledge my father's experience may not have been the common experience, or the exception to the rule, but I know there are/were others like him.  Culture and distance from his training hombu probably played a lot into his development and the change in his purpose; for others, there may have been entirely different factors.  But it still intrigues me.


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## seasoned (Jun 15, 2009)

'Ailina said:


> Yes, I observed this in my father. Even though I wasn't born yet in my father's early training, he did "speak from a different time period" at certain points in his life.
> 
> In the 70s and 80s, his dojo was very much wrapped up in competition, and so I think his personal purpose changed. But there were times, especially when he would talk with friends from the "old school", when his early experience and training seemed to come over him like -- for lack of a better word -- a trance.
> 
> I think it a very provocative and intensely interesting subject, to explore how martial artists "straddled" two very different eras of training. I acknowledge my father's experience may not have been the common experience, or the exception to the rule, but I know there are/were others like him. Culture and distance from his training hombu probably played a lot into his development and the change in his purpose; for others, there may have been entirely different factors. But it still intrigues me.


I went to your homepage, you lead a very inspirational and accomplished life. It was awesome posting with you, you should join us more often, in conversation.  Thanks, Wes


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## 'Ailina (Jun 15, 2009)

seasoned said:


> I went to your homepage, you lead a very inspirational and accomplished life. It was awesome posting with you, you should join us more often, in conversation.  Thanks, Wes



Wes, the pleasure is all mine. I'm honored all of you have taken the time to indulge my questions and share your thoughts and experiences.  And I _will_ join you more often.  Thank you for the invitation.


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## Xue Sheng (Jun 15, 2009)

seasoned said:


> Not to step on toes, but a few cents to add. I feel that mind set is the big difference. In the old days there was nothing to prove to anyone, but yourself. If the mind set is geared toward competition, then that is foremost on your mind. Not to take anything away from anyone training in todays dojo, because there are a lot of karate people that train very hard. But in the day that we are all talking about here, it was for blood and guts, with a do or die mentality. We trained under all conditions, if something was broke, tape it, if something was sprained, wrap it. The whole idea was, self defense, didn't take time off. If we were hurt, we trained anyway.


 
Not stepping on my toes this is from a while ago but it is what my view of what it use to be was. But then I only go back to the early 70s
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=40540/#9


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## 'Ailina (Jun 15, 2009)

Xue Sheng...thank you for sharing the link to your earlier post.  (And I fully appreciated your humor, "walking with dinosaurs," "stone age.")

I agree with your perspective on the good and bad effects the Internet has had on MA relations.  For me, the Internet has given me a broader view of the state of martial arts.  Like viewing a mountain from a great distance.  What I've observed is sometimes encouraging, and sometimes disheartening.  I've noticed a tendency toward negativity, too.

I can't speak from experience, because the time you speak of was before me, before I had training, but I believe you and the things you've written about camaraderie.  I know this was probably especially true of martial artists in Hawai'i during that time period, as the blended culture embraced brotherly respect _anyway._  The islands being so self-contained and geographically condensed, I imagine bonds went beyond just sharing the art.  (Just about everyone was related in one way or another.)

I wonder if any other practitioners who came up in the 40s - 70s recall the same kind of camaraderie?  Is that mutual respect without despise only alive among the students of those generations?


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## seasoned (Jun 15, 2009)

As always, Xue Sheng has brought up a very good point. _"those that bang together, hang together"._ I am hoping though, that us old dudes aren't too bias, toward a preserved day gone by. I know that perception has a lot to do with life, and we hear about it everyday. I think one of the sayings goes like this_," back in my day, we walked 3 miles to school in a snow storm, and it was up hill both ways"._ Each generation feels that they had it rough, I remember my mom and dad talking about it, and here, I am sounding just like them.  I guess it is relative to where you are in life, and what time period you come from, as to how hard or difficult things seem to have been. I am old, and I look old, and the last bastion is to begin to sound old. Hopefully I did not tip my hand to much here.      :asian:


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## 'Ailina (Jun 15, 2009)

Wes, I have a feeling everyone will get to that "up-hill-both-ways" thing eventually.  I admit I'm already guilty of doing that with my own kids.

Bias acknowledged. However, I personally have never visited a dojo or met a practitioner who still trains in the "old way."  Those training methods would be considered rough by any standards, in any era!

And taking into consideration the absence of anger in the skill challenges Xue Sheng described...perhaps the present time just doesn't allow for that same scenario?

Yes, I think it goes back to the mind set.  Maybe martial artists don't train that way anymore because the context of the time doesn't allow for it?  Unless one trains alone, or with a group of like-minded students, which I think would be quite small.


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## Danjo (Jun 16, 2009)

'Ailina said:


> Yes, I observed this in my father. Even though I wasn't born yet in my father's early training, he did "speak from a different time period" at certain points in his life.
> 
> In the 70s and 80s, his dojo was very much wrapped up in competition, and so I think his personal purpose changed. But there were times, especially when he would talk with friends from the "old school", when his early experience and training seemed to come over him like -- for lack of a better word -- a trance.
> 
> I think it a very provocative and intensely interesting subject, to explore how martial artists "straddled" two very different eras of training. I acknowledge my father's experience may not have been the common experience, or the exception to the rule, but I know there are/were others like him. Culture and distance from his training hombu probably played a lot into his development and the change in his purpose; for others, there may have been entirely different factors. But it still intrigues me.


 
'Ailina, I noticed in one of the pictures of your father you have on your website, that it said he was training in "Kajukenfu". In others, it looked like he had trained in some other arts. Could you give us a break down of his martial arts training, when, where and with whom if possible?

This is what I found regarding Kajukenfu:

[FONT=Arial Black,Arial,Helvetica]Kajufenfu Budo Kai Kan Kenpo Karate[/FONT]​[FONT=Arial Black,Arial,Helvetica]The history of Kajukenfu is sketchy at most and was the dream of the late Professor Harold Laranang Kajkenfu's founder. As a youth growing up in Hawaii Professor Laranang studied Kajukenbo from Grand Master Adriano Emerado and primarily from Professor Simeon Eli. Not much is known about Professor Eli. GM Emperado[/FONT][FONT=Arial Black,Arial,Helvetica] [/FONT][FONT=Arial Black,Arial,Helvetica]however, is one of the founders of Kajukenbo which was started by five martial arists from the Palmaro district of Oaho, Hawaii. The five founders formed a society known as the Black Belt Society and began their art. Once again history is hazy on w[/FONT][FONT=Arial Black,Arial,Helvetica]ho and where Professor Laranang received his first black belt.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial Black,Arial,Helvetica]When I met Professor Laranang he was a second degree black belt, teaching at Schofield Barracks, Hawaii. I had just completed the 25th Infantry Division's Tae Kwon Do program when I met him. I joined his club and thought it to be unique. I had already been trained in Wing Chun Kung Fu, Judo, and Jujistu. I rounded it off with a Brown Belt (now red belt) in Tae Kwon Do Sensei Laranang thought I would have something to give to Kajukenfu so he started me out as a brown belt in his system. Sensei Laranang never really told me what he had studied so I never really knew. We began training and instructing at the Training Command Center on Schofield. We had little problems during that time period, for instance, what language would be used. We were using Chinese, Japanese, and of course English. At times we couldn't agree on some of the techniques, etc. I will always remember Sensei Laranang saying, "If it works let's use it." So he was open for new things.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial Black,Arial,Helvetica]The instruction was ad hoc and the system was under development. We tried new things all the time and wrote the techniques in a binder. Sensei Laranang was big on using a chalkboard. I received my black belt from him during my first year. He gave me a card that said Kajukenfu Budo Kai Khan Karate with the ranking of black belt. It was a total surprise to me, he informed me that as soon as he could he would make up a certificate with my belt ranking. I continued with him off and on for another year. We tested new techniques and wrote them down. He practiced a lot on me. Occasionally when he couldn't show up for class I would teach his class wich was made up of mostly military and their dependents. As time went on Sensei Laranang kept his promise and gave me two certificates. My first black belt ranking with a promotion certificate of 1st degree. Once again it caught me off guard. During the early 70's there were two others who were doing the same thing with Sensei Laranang Stanley Wilder (Brown belt Tae Kwon Do) and Ricky Cordova (can' t remember his ranking). We all eventually went separate ways. Military transfer's and such. I never heard what happened to Wilder, but heard that Cordova had obtained a black belt ranking and was teaching somewhere in California (this was in the 80's).[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial Black,Arial,Helvetica]I had kept out of contact with Kajukenfu I went on to fight in semi-professional open-freestyle tournaments. I had to learn my capabilities. I found out early on that some of our techniques didn't work when applied in the arena. During the course of time I improvised the techniques and applied them in my everyday training continuing on with Laranang's philosophy of "If it works let's use it." I kept up with the training over the years mostly off and on, passing some of the techniques to others I have instructed.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial Black,Arial,Helvetica]In the late 90's I decided that I should pass on what I learned over a 30 year span, so I began my quest to find out what happened to the Kajukenfu community. I had lost my original certifications of black belt, and 1st degree so the quest was on.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial Black,Arial,Helvetica]Through internet relations with other martial artists I was able to get in contact with Sensei Laranang's daughter Ailina. The history of Kajukenfu got mysterious and confusing.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial Black,Arial,Helvetica]What does Kajukenfu mean?[/FONT]​[FONT=Arial Black,Arial,Helvetica]Kajukenfu's primary style is that of Karate, Judo, Kenpo, and Kung Fu. Over the years influences from Aikido, Jujitsu,  and Tae Kwon Do  were introduced to the art.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial Black,Arial,Helvetica]The term Kajukenfu is broken down into the following:[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial Black,Arial,Helvetica]KA = Long LifeJU = HappinessKEN = FistFU = Style[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial Black,Arial,Helvetica]The other accepted term is:[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial Black,Arial,Helvetica]KA = KarateJU = Judo or JujitsuKEN = KenpoFU = Kung Fu[/FONT]​[FONT=Arial Black,Arial,Helvetica]Kenpo literally means: Fist Style. However an accepted term is the "law of the fist."[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial Black,Arial,Helvetica]The Kajukenfu Creed[/FONT]​[FONT=Arial Black,Arial,Helvetica]Although, many of the Kajukenfu sister schools have there own creeds the creed used at the main dojo is:[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial Black,Arial,Helvetica]The fundamental principles of Kajukenfu Budo Kai Kan Kenpo Karate are:        [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial Black,Arial,Helvetica]_1.  The preservation of human rights vested in us by God and country._[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial Black,Arial,Helvetica]_2.  The insurance of peace and order, and the promotion of mankind._[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial Black,Arial,Helvetica]_3. The innermost and true spirit of Kenpo lies in humility and self-                      restraint._[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial Black,Arial,Helvetica]_4.  Learn the ways to preserve rather than check, check rather than hurt,_[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial Black,Arial,Helvetica]_5.  Hurt rather than maim, maim rather than kill._[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial Black,Arial,Helvetica]_6.  For life is precious nor can be replaced._[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial Black,Arial,Helvetica]_Contributed by: The Kajukenfu Board of Regents_[/FONT]


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## Danjo (Jun 16, 2009)

On second thought I just noticed the other thread on your father where you gave some info.


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## 'Ailina (Jun 16, 2009)

(*Note to Moderator:*  I apologize if my reply is lengthy and off-topic. Please move/split this thread if you find it necessary to do so.)

Hi, Dan.

Yes, I recognize the excerpt.  This was written about ten years ago by Professor Jim Keane (of Keane-Do Kenpo, a sister school), and it represents a culmination of information he had at the time.

I think it may not be my place to comment on his article (lest I further any confusion), but I can offer my personal perspectives where some of the content is involved.

I know my father _did not_ train under Adriano Emperado.  I believe he may have been exposed to the master once or twice in passing, but at no time did he enter formal training under him. His instructors were Simeon Eli (as Professor Keane cited here) & Arthur Keawe.

This is very basic information, but I really don't have many more solid details beyond this.  He passed away months before this article was written.  The documentation, photos, certificates...all these things I cleaned out of his garage after his death was lost during one of my family moves, so there are several of us who have done independent research over the years trying to piece together his history.

I don't know what dojo(s) he trained in.  Regretfully, it's been almost impossible for me to discover all the styles he was exposed to during his military career, but I do know it was a top priority for him to train students and learn from other martial artists no matter where the Army stationed him.

As Professor Keane writes in his article, Kajukenfu did germinate in Hawai'i.  The bulk of the development of the system took place in Louisiana during the late 70s and 80s, and that is the system I was raised in.

The breakdown of stylistic influences and the creed cited here are true to what I was taught.

I'm so sorry I don't have more concrete information.  My research is ongoing (when I have time to devote to it).  From what I understand, Professor Keane has garnered much more information over the years through his excellent military and martial arts contacts.  And Professor John Pereda (present master of the Kajukenfu system; Dearing, GA) was my father's top student and personal confidante, so he would definitely know more about my father's martial arts history than I would.

Thank you, Dan, for your interest.  If you have any insights to offer, on the photos or otherwise, please feel free to contact me.


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## 'Ailina (Jun 16, 2009)

Danjo said:


> On second thought I just noticed the other thread on your father where you gave some info.



OOPS! I missed this second post from you, Dan.  My apologies to you and the other thread readers!


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## jks9199 (Jun 16, 2009)

I was looking through some old posts & threads, and came across this one...  thought it might be relevant to the topic.


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