# Zen and your Martial Arts training.



## SensibleManiac (Feb 9, 2009)

I'm not a buddhist but I find the concept of Zen very applicable to my training.
I'm wondering if anyone else here uses principles of Zen in their training or life in general.
I find what i use in my training spills over into everyday life as well.

One simple example, when I'm caught in a bad position I usually stay in the moment and let my skill flow to help me get out.
This keeps me from panicing and helps me stay focused.
This translates into everyday life when I'm in a place that requires patience. I use the same Zen concept and stay focused in the moment, this helps me  stay patient.  

Anyone else enjoy these types of benefits?


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## Xue Sheng (Feb 10, 2009)

This may come as a surprise to some here but yes I do but it just happens that Zen was doing the same thing that I do it was not a consious thought of Zen. However of late I have been more into reading about Zen to I guess at this point maybe it is just that.

I try to stay in the present moment as much as possible But that comes more from my training which is mainly Taiji and what isn't is CMA IMA and that too requires focus on the moment and an Uncluttered Mind (if you will) but that was more the training itself than any thought of Zen actually.


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## Errant108 (Feb 10, 2009)

SensibleManiac said:


> I'm not a buddhist but I find the concept of Zen very applicable to my training.



"Zen" is not a concept.



SensibleManiac said:


> I'm wondering if anyone else here uses principles of Zen in their training or life in general.



What are "Zen principles"?



SensibleManiac said:


> One simple example, when I'm caught in a bad position I usually stay in the moment and let my skill flow to help me get out.
> This keeps me from panicing and helps me stay focused.
> This translates into everyday life when I'm in a place that requires patience. I use the same Zen concept and stay focused in the moment, this helps me  stay patient.



This is a good thing, and by all means, continue to try and incorporate this into your martial practice & your daily life...but this is "not Zen".



SensibleManiac said:


> Anyone else enjoy these types of benefits?



Practicing Zen has definitely helped me in my daily life and in my martial arts practice.

One of the first things I found when I started training at the temple (Gakhwangsa), was that all those things that you think are "Zen", are not "it".  Fluidity, centeredness, a calm mind...trying to seek after these things actually inhibits you from the single clear point. Your efforts to try and do these things will only end up limiting your practice.


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## SensibleManiac (Feb 10, 2009)

Thanks I do appreciate your input and understand the "trying to attain it will keep you from it" idea.
Would you care to elaborate on your post please?
You state what it is not, could you state more what you feel it is?
It is not a concept? Then what?

It is definitely a difficult thing to express and I've never studied it in terms of buddhism, can you help me understand more in depth your experience, it would be appreciated.


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## Bill Mattocks (Feb 11, 2009)

SensibleManiac said:


> ...I've never studied it in terms of buddhism, ...



Pardon me for interjecting here, but since reading the first post, I've wondered about this thread.  I'm not sure that 'zen' can be separate from Buddhism, can it?  I don't know, I'm not Buddhist.

But it struck me as if someone said they were a fan of transubstantiation, but not a believer in Catholicism.  I guess I 'get' that, but I don't know how a non-Catholic would have that in their lives.  It's just part of it, you know?

If I am way off base, please disregard.


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## Xue Sheng (Feb 11, 2009)

Bill Mattocks said:


> Pardon me for interjecting here, but since reading the first post, I've wondered about this thread. I'm not sure that 'zen' can be separate from Buddhism, can it? I don't know, I'm not Buddhist.
> 
> But it struck me as if someone said they were a fan of transubstantiation, but not a believer in Catholicism. I guess I 'get' that, but I don't know how a non-Catholic would have that in their lives. It's just part of it, you know?
> 
> If I am way off base, please disregard.


 
Well actually no it can't but yes it is.

Zen is a type of Buddhism I believe in China it would be Chan Buddhism or at least close to it. But in the West the and likely the east as well these days the term "Zen" has been separated from Buddhism....kinda sorta.... and is used for a whole new age kind of thinking about things that is not necessarily bad since it is used, at times to get one to calm down, relax and simplify their life and or stay more in the moment but it is not exactly following "all" of the Buddhist precepts...if any. 

To many these days, IMO, the term Zen is kind of like Buddhism light and they have little understanding of what Zen Buddhism is truly about.


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## SensibleManiac (Feb 11, 2009)

Hi, I studied Zen Buddhism back in college, (which was over 15 years ago).
I also studied some Mikkyo Buddhism, again I was never a Buddhist.
In other words, I never studied it as part of being a Buddhist or becoming one.  
The way I see it the two are often viewed seperately, particularly here in the west where it's viewed as a "simplification" of things. This isn't what I'm talking about though.

Here is the dictionary definition:
noun 
1.  school of Mahayana Buddhism asserting that enlightenment can come through meditation and intuition rather than faith; China and Japan  
2.  a Buddhist doctrine that enlightenment can be attained through direct intuitive insight 

In my first post (concept) should read doctrine. My apologies for mixing things up.

It is this specific Buddhist doctrine that I feel is VERY applicable in the martial arts.
Very difficult for me to describe though, but that "feeling" that is what I am supposing enlightenmient is like, when you are completely in the moment while practicing your art. I don't think you have to be a Buddhist to experience that. 

Definitely NOT a Buddhism light, especially when it comes to martial arts.

If we could stick to the topic of the thread, it would be appreciated.


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