# Obama finally plans to raise minimum wage



## Monkey Turned Wolf (Feb 13, 2013)

http://money.cnn.com/2013/02/12/news/economy/obama-minimum-wage/index.html?source=cnn_bin


> In his State of the Union address, Obama pressed to raise the hourly rate in stages to $9 an hour in 2015, up from the current $7.25, and index it to inflation. The change, should it become law, would boost the wages of 15 million Americans, according to the White House.



However, it did take him a while to finally get to this...



> Obama campaigned in 2008 on a pledge toraise the federal minimum wage to $9.50 an hour by 2011, but he didn't follow through during his first term, despite multiple calls from worker advocates to do so.



You'd think he would have gotten to this issue earlier, considering how important it is overall. At least he's finally getting around to it.


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## Steve (Feb 13, 2013)

kempodisciple said:


> http://money.cnn.com/2013/02/12/news/economy/obama-minimum-wage/index.html?source=cnn_bin
> 
> However, it did take him a while to finally get to this...
> 
> You'd think he would have gotten to this issue earlier, considering how important it is overall. At least he's finally getting around to it.[/FONT][/COLOR]


As with all things, it's a hard sell in a political, partisan environment.  There are passionate opinions on both sides. One side would agree with Obama, insisting that a higher, living wage would put more money into the pockets of lower income workers, who would then spend more in stores.  The other side, however, says that the way to energize the economy is to put people back to work and focus on unemployment, and that by raising the minimum wage, an employer would not be able to hire more people.  The choice, essentially, is to either pay the people I have more or hire more people at the prevailing rate.

Both sides have merit.  Ultimately, I think that it is unreasonable to institute a national rate that is flat, across the board.  The cost of living in King County Washington is much higher than in parts of Louisiana or Mississippi, for example. 

Personally, I could get behind a minimum wage tied to the cost of living in a particular area.  Setting a minimum that is around, say, $6 per hour, and then adjusting that according to local cost of living.


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## celtic_crippler (Feb 13, 2013)

It'll put more people on unemployment and welfare for sure. 

Basic "Business" and/or "Economic" principles really should be taught in school. But I suppose that would be counter to their agenda...


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Feb 13, 2013)

A lot of the people on unemployment/welfare are on it because they got laid off from higher paying jobs, or for some reason or another are incapable of holding a job..often due to time, laziness, drug use, etc., and for those people, it won't matter that the minimum wage is raised, they'll remain unemployed either way, so it won't effect unemployment for those people. However, for the families with people who are working multiple minimum wage jobs, and actually making an effort, it will help support their family and help them save enough money (over a long period of time, if they're smart) up to be able to provide a better life for their own kids in the future.
It's honestly one of the few policies Obama has that I am a fan of, but it took him way too long to get it in action.
And to be completely honest, even if I didn't support it, I would be annoyed it took him till his second term to start any work at all on a campaign promise he made for his first term.


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## Steve (Feb 13, 2013)

I don't completely disagree, CC, but I don't think it's that simple.  Being fair, Obama outlined several reasonable ways to attract business and grow the economy in the SotU speech. 

If there was no consideration or effort put into supporting small businesses or attracting manufacturing jobs from overseas, then arbitrarily raising the minimum wage would be harmful.


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## Tames D (Feb 13, 2013)

The price of a Starbucks coffee just went up...


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## Instructor (Feb 13, 2013)

Well that will create jobs and bring businesses back from overseas... NOT.


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## cdunn (Feb 13, 2013)

Steve said:


> As with all things, it's a hard sell in a political, partisan environment. There are passionate opinions on both sides. One side would agree with Obama, insisting that a higher, living wage would put more money into the pockets of lower income workers, who would then spend more in stores. The other side, however, says that the way to energize the economy is to put people back to work and focus on unemployment, and that by raising the minimum wage, an employer would not be able to hire more people. The choice, essentially, is to either pay the people I have more or hire more people at the prevailing rate.
> 
> Both sides have merit. Ultimately, I think that it is unreasonable to institute a national rate that is flat, across the board. The cost of living in King County Washington is much higher than in parts of Louisiana or Mississippi, for example.
> 
> Personally, I could get behind a minimum wage tied to the cost of living in a particular area. Setting a minimum that is around, say, $6 per hour, and then adjusting that according to local cost of living.



States and individual localites have the power to set minimum wages above and beyond that of the federal minimum wage, and often do.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Feb 13, 2013)

Instructor said:


> Well that will create jobs and bring businesses back from overseas... NOT.


I would agree with that, if it wasn't for the fact that we already lost those jobs that are overseas now, and Obama doesn't seem to be doing anything about that, so IMO it's basically a lost cause. So, if he's not doing anything to get more jobs over here, at least he's trying to improve the quality of life over here for those who have the jobs.


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## celtic_crippler (Feb 13, 2013)

Chicago is pretty much the model for many of his policies... Illinois has the highest minimum wage standard in the nation at $8.25 and hour BTW... Have you looked at Chicago? Is that how you want the rest of the nation to look? Really?


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## Bob Hubbard (Feb 13, 2013)

I look forward to $15/gallon gas, $5 burgers at Wendys, and a can of soda costing $4.

Minimum wage laws are bad for the economy. All it means is less business growth, less hiring, and more people getting cut to part time status, while prices go up.
It'll be as successful as his "Health Insurance Stimulus Act".

But I'm game.  The SM rate for MT is tied to the FMW.  3 hours and a couple minutes actually.  How about we up the SM rate here accordingly?
Go from $21.95/yr to $27.00
Lets see those signups guys.  Show me MT's worth at least 3 hrs min wage to you.


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## oftheherd1 (Feb 13, 2013)

Steve said:


> ...
> 
> Ultimately, I think that it is unreasonable to institute a national rate that is flat, across the board. The cost of living in King County Washington is much higher than in parts of Louisiana or Mississippi, for example.
> ...



I quite agree! However, in the political game of buying votes, and feeling omnipotent, any form of States Rights is a no-no.


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## granfire (Feb 13, 2013)

kempodisciple said:


> A lot of the people on unemployment/welfare are on it because they got laid off from higher paying jobs, or for some reason or another are incapable of holding a job..often due to time, laziness, drug use, etc., and for those people, it won't matter that the minimum wage is raised, they'll remain unemployed either way, so it won't effect unemployment for those people. However, for the families with people who are working multiple minimum wage jobs, and actually making an effort, it will help support their family and help them save enough money (over a long period of time, if they're smart) up to be able to provide a better life for their own kids in the future.
> It's honestly one of the few policies Obama has that I am a fan of, but it took him way too long to get it in action.
> And to be completely honest, even if I didn't support it, I would be annoyed it took him till his second term to start any work at all on a campaign promise he made for his first term.



those who can't hold a job or are not really looking for one make no more than about 4%. That unemployment rate is considered full employment.

As to minimum wage...
yeah, a flat rate is really weird...considering that 8 dollars was a damn good job around here not too long ago., while 10 bucks will buy you a whole lot of nothing in other areas. 

It would certainly elevate the low income areas...maybe...because we all know how employers just love to shell out extra money....

And it's always nice when you can be the good guy and somebody else picks up the tab....


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## Instructor (Feb 13, 2013)

Plenty of people in this country would be happy to work for less than 8.00 an hour.  Many just want a job.  If anything he should have lowered it.


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## James Kovacich (Feb 13, 2013)

celtic_crippler said:


> Chicago is pretty much the model for many of his policies... Illinois has the highest minimum wage standard in the nation at $8.25 and hour BTW... Have you looked at Chicago? Is that how you want the rest of the nation to look? Really?



I'm not sure what you mean by minimum wage "standard?" Buy Ca is no less that $8.00 and San Francisco is the highest in the nation at $10.55.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_wage_in_the_United_States#section_2

 San Jose's raises to $10.00 on 3/11/13 and will increase annually with the cost of living if needed starting 1/1/14.
http://www.sanjoseca.gov/index.aspx?NID=3491



Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk 2


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## celtic_crippler (Feb 13, 2013)

James Kovacich said:


> I'm not sure what you mean by minimum wage "standard?" Buy Ca is no less that $8.00 and San Francisco is the highest in the nation at $10.55.
> http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_wage_in_the_United_States#section_2
> 
> San Jose's raises to $10.00 on 3/11/13 and will increase annually with the cost of living if needed starting 1/1/14.
> ...



According to the Department of Labor, not "wiki", Illinois' minimum wage is $8.25/hr... California is only $8.00/hr. Only 3 states surpass Illinois. 
http://www.dol.gov/whd/minwage/america.htm


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## James Kovacich (Feb 13, 2013)

Bob Hubbard said:


> I look forward to $15/gallon gas, $5 burgers at Wendys, and a can of soda costing $4.
> 
> Minimum wage laws are bad for the economy. All it means is less business growth, less hiring, and more people getting cut to part time status, while prices go up.
> It'll be as successful as his "Health Insurance Stimulus Act".
> ...



If the jobs are paying that low of a wage in the 1st place, then your talking about jobs that suck and the average American will tell you straight that they will collect unemployment before working for that low of pay. We need to worry about the decent jobs. I say decent because it seems a lot of people can't get a wage close to what we are used to working for.


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## WC_lun (Feb 13, 2013)

Every time this issue has come up in the past, the same old arguements about it will cost jobs and increase unemployment are used.  Historically the opposite has been true. The economy has grown and as a result jobs increase.  I admitt that some companies who pay thier employees minimum wage might be hurt by increasing the minimum wage.  However, as a whole that has not been the case in the past.


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## celtic_crippler (Feb 14, 2013)

WC_lun said:


> Every time this issue has come up in the past, the same old arguements about it will cost jobs and increase unemployment are used.  Historically the opposite has been true. The economy has grown and as a result jobs increase.  I admitt that some companies who pay thier employees minimum wage might be hurt by increasing the minimum wage.  However, as a whole that has not been the case in the past.



Prove it.


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## oftheherd1 (Feb 14, 2013)

celtic_crippler said:


> Chicago is pretty much the model for many of his policies... Illinois has the highest minimum wage standard in the nation at $8.25 and hour BTW... Have you looked at Chicago? Is that how you want the rest of the nation to look? Really?



Hmmmm ... I think you are right.

Several years ago a DC politician quipped that when he died he wanted to be buried in Chicago so he could stay active in polictics.


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## oftheherd1 (Feb 14, 2013)

WC_lun said:


> Every time this issue has come up in the past, the same old arguements about it will cost jobs and increase unemployment are used. Historically the opposite has been true. The economy has grown and as a result jobs increase. I admitt that some companies who pay thier employees minimum wage might be hurt by increasing the minimum wage. However, as a whole that has not been the case in the past.



I not nor have I ever been a student of economics. But that just seems intuitively wrong. It kind of sounds like President Reagan's trickle-down Reaganomics. Much as I liked Reagan, I never agreed with trickle-down economics.  Another thing that just seemed counter-intuitive.


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## celtic_crippler (Feb 14, 2013)

oftheherd1 said:


> I not nor have I ever been a student of economics. But that just seems intuitively wrong. It kind of sounds like President Reagan's trickle-down Reaganomics. Much as I liked Reagan, I never agreed with trickle-down economics.  Another thing that just seemed counter-intuitive.



In the immortal words of Ross Perot, "Well...it didn't trickle did it?" LOL

Businesses that rely to a large extent on unskilled labor see their profit margins diminished and their expenses increased when minimum wages increase. This presents them with a challenge to their economic growth and factors into their economic decision-making.

That being said, according to an article published by the National Center for Policy Analysis, an employer would rather pay existing employees for working more hours than take on the cost of hiring a minimum wage employee, especially in a bad economy. Therefore, increasing the minimum wage makes it harder for minimum wage workers to find a job. 

It also impacts the morale and productivity of employees already in the workplace who feel they have earned the salary they are receiving above the minimum wage, when the minimum wage is increased they do not in turn receive a raise to compensate for their perceived value. The employer can not afford it, and the increase in minimum wage decreases their chances of, as well as the amount of future raises in salary. 

Most companies will gladly pay you what youre worth. They see the minimum wage as a large expense in regards to unskilled labor; therefore, increases in the minimum wage result in stricter hiring criteria. This poses a big problem for young people attempting to enter the workforce. According to the Employment Policy Institute, every 10% increase in the minimum wage results in a 5-9% decrease in employment for young people attempting to enter the workforce. This often leads to increases in local unemployment, homelessness, and crime rates. 

As with a lot of the rhetoric that comes out of Washington, it sounds and looks good on the surface but is never actually good for the country as a whole.


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