# Nei Kung



## Starjumper7 (Sep 11, 2019)

The concept of what Nei Kung is has been terribly bastardized in the public mind due to money grubbing amateurs who like to write books.

This is an excellent description of what nei kung (neiging) really is:


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## Starjumper7 (Sep 11, 2019)

One of the main differences between chi kung and nei kung is that originally, traditionally, before it was bastardized by the money grubbers, Nei kung meant entire systems of self developement, which are said to contain ten thousand techniques. (depends on how you count)

Real nei kung addresses all aspects of self development, physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual.

Chi kung, on the other hand, consists of sets of exercises which are very small subsets of nei kung system methods. A chi kung 'system' may have as few as a couple of techniques, to many tens of techniques. When it starts to get into the hundreds, like the original Wild Goose chi kung (Dayan chi kung) then it is more like nei kung, although it is called chi kung ... for the same reason I call Tien Shan a chi kung, because when you practice or teach it only a limited number of techniques can be performed, obviously.

So, when someone is 'doing' it, they are doing chi kung, but if they are serious students of one of the holistic systems then it is called ni kung.

What happens is that some jokers who are either liars or who have been misinformed by previous liars upline, offer some pathetic exercise and call it nei kung.  

In the past, before there wer big cities, books, and internet; when masters were few, and students were serious, nei kung was the Way, and chi kung was more or less unheard of. Then with the advent of commercialism, most people became interested in chi kung, and nei kung was nearly forgotten. Then, after that, people got wind of the fact that nei kung is superior, more powerful, and more complete than chi kung so it became popular to 'sell' nei kung to the masses.

Most of these 'sellers', before the internet, started selling it by writing books. I think this is an important point, because they focussed on methods which are more mental and much simpler, ones that aren't much exercise, if any at all.

In fact, big parts of real nei kung is a lot of exercise, and for people who are not in good condition it can BE brutal. Any weakness a person has, whether it be physical or emotional, will cause some real pain until it is fixed, or cured. If you find any nei kung which is not brutally physical, then it is a lie, and it has been wimpified in order to make it acceptable to the consumers.


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## Deleted member 39746 (Sep 11, 2019)

if its worth anything, i have no idea what this is.   

Interesting anyway.


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## Starjumper7 (Sep 11, 2019)

Rat said:


> if its worth anything, i have no idea what this is.
> 
> Interesting anyway.



Thanks, have you heard of qigong?  Qigong is the modern communist way fo spelling chi kung.  I'm old fashioned and like the phonetic spelling.


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## Xue Sheng (Sep 11, 2019)

Starjumper7 said:


> Thanks, have you heard of qigong?  Qigong is the modern communist way fo spelling chi kung.  I'm old fashioned and like the phonetic spelling.



Not wanting to make this political, but Communism has little to do with Qigong vs Chi kung.

Qigong is the Chinese version (pinyin) of spelling english works for English speakers
Chi Kung is the British (Wade-Giles) version of spelling Chinese words for English speakers


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## Starjumper7 (Sep 11, 2019)

Xue Sheng said:


> Not wanting to make this political, but Communism has little to do with Qigong vs Chi kung.
> 
> Qigong is the Chinese version (pinyin) of spelling english works for English speakers
> Chi Kung is the British (Wade-Giles) version of spelling Chinese words for English speakers



I agree.  The thing is, I read somewhere that the Chinese government needed to standardize spellings so that Chinese could use computers to write, using our letters.  The government at the time was communist.


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## Flying Crane (Sep 11, 2019)

Ok, honestly, the video had next to zero actual information.  It is on a level with simply explaining what the definition is.  Beyond that, there was nothing of substance.  

In particular, I want to point out the section of the fellow pointing his fingers at the woman’s belly, from several feet away.  Then cut to a closeup of her belly, with a light spot, possibly coloration or shining a flashlight on her skin, but showing no connection to the fellow pointing his fingers.  That is an obvious fakery, and a good example why people tend to not buy into this stuff.  Do some “mysterious” motions, then cut the camera angle and show something implied as a result of the mysterious motions, and people aren’t supposed to believe in it?  Pretty gullible.


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## Xue Sheng (Sep 11, 2019)

Starjumper7 said:


> I agree.  The thing is, I read somewhere that the Chinese government needed to standardize spellings so that Chinese could use computers to write, using our letters.  The government at the time was communist.



That would be simplified Chinese that the Communists pushed and that is used in Mainland today. 
Simplified Chinese 中国 = China
Traditional Chinese 中國 = China

Pinyin was developed in the 50s for a standardization of the Romanization of Chinese, computers had little to do wth it. It used by the UN, mainland China and Taiwan


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## Starjumper7 (Sep 11, 2019)

Flying Crane said:


> Ok, honestly, the video had next to zero actual information.  It is on a level with simply explaining what the definition is.  Beyond that, there was nothing of substance.
> 
> In particular, I want to point out the section of the fellow pointing his fingers at the woman’s belly, from several feet away.  Then cut to a closeup of her belly, with a light spot, possibly coloration or shining a flashlight on her skin, but showing no connection to the fellow pointing his fingers.  That is an obvious fakery, and a good example why people tend to not buy into this stuff.  Do some “mysterious” motions, then cut the camera angle and show something implied as a result of the mysterious motions, and people aren’t supposed to believe in it?  Pretty gullible.



I agree, those demonstrations in the videos were probably faked.  The guy you mentioned was very handy with the fakery and tricks.

The thing is, I've felt tremendous heat from my teacher's hands, and I myself can make a person say "ouch it's hot!" when I have scanned their belly for a few seconds.  So I know it is possible.  One important point is that the real masters with high level abilites do not put on demonstrations for the public or videos, therefore the video maker was forced to use some fakes in the video.  The most important part of that, though, is that when the video shows those things it says that those are merely side effects of the true purpose of nei kung, which is correct.

Most special abilities are temptations, traps, or signposts along the Way.


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## Starjumper7 (Sep 11, 2019)

Xue Sheng said:


> That would be simplified Chinese that the Communists pushed and that is used in Mainland today.
> Simplified Chinese 中国 = China
> Traditional Chinese 中國 = China
> 
> Pinyin was developed in the 50s for a standardization of the Romanization of Chinese, computers had little to do wth it. It used by the UN, mainland China and Taiwan



Thank you.


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## Encho (Sep 11, 2019)

I am going to type this in Hanzi
内功 和 外功 是 气功。 
To break it down even more
Nei Gong is a method of Qigong that focuses on a more internal(Nei) approach as oppose to using a more external (Wai) approach.
Usually a person who practices Qigong does both or has done both.


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## Flying Crane (Sep 11, 2019)

Starjumper7 said:


> I agree, those demonstrations in the videos were probably faked.  The guy you mentioned was very handy with the fakery and tricks.
> 
> The thing is, I've felt tremendous heat from my teacher's hands, and I myself can make a person say "ouch it's hot!" when I have scanned their belly for a few seconds.  So I know it is possible.  One important point is that the real masters with high level abilites do not put on demonstrations for the public or videos, therefore the video maker was forced to use some fakes in the video.  The most important part of that, though, is that when the video shows those things it says that those are merely side effects of the true purpose of nei kung, which is correct.
> 
> Most special abilities are temptations, traps, or signposts along the Way.


I would need to feel it for myself.  So far, I have not.


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## Starjumper7 (Sep 12, 2019)

Flying Crane said:


> I would need to feel it for myself. So far, I have not.



I can understand that.  The ability is kind of rare, there are tons of fakes, and the real guys don't do public demos,  they only show their students IF the student is serious and making good progress.


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## Starjumper7 (Sep 12, 2019)

Rat said:


> if its worth anything, i have no idea what this is.



What it's worth depends on how important cultivating yourself to super human levels matters to you.  The thing to know is that most people selling what they call neigong, are either clueless or liars, and they are selling lies that hurt a lot of people.


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## Gerry Seymour (Sep 12, 2019)

My reaction to this is the same as my reaction to psychic seeing and other such claims. I find it odd that all we can find of video seems to come from fakers, and as it becomes easier and easier to test and verify (or falsify) it, the real practitioners become more and more secretive.

I don't know if any of it is "real" or not, but I see no reason to see the trend as anything but evidence it's not.


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## Starjumper7 (Sep 12, 2019)

gpseymour said:


> My reaction to this is the same as my reaction to psychic seeing and other such claims. I find it odd that all we can find of video seems to come from fakers, and as it becomes easier and easier to test and verify (or falsify) it, the real practitioners become more and more secretive.
> 
> I don't know if any of it is "real" or not, but I see no reason to see the trend as anything but evidence it's not.



Well, that's not surprising, I was exactly the same way, I had all kinds of 'beliefs' about it.  It is understandable that people who haven't experienced such things will think they don't exist, no problem.  Perhaps if you look further afield you will find something.  All the books written by sincere spiritual seekers can't be wrong.  So anyway, I experienced telepathy with Mr. Yueng, I had some visit from beings in the spirit realm, and a whole lot more that I thought didn't exist.

I may be the only person who you know who can demonstrate chi, and you don't believe me = )  Come on down to Ecuador if you are curious enough.


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## Gerry Seymour (Sep 12, 2019)

Starjumper7 said:


> Well, that's not surprising, I was exactly the same way, I had all kinds of 'beliefs' about it.  It is understandable that people who haven't experienced such things will think they don't exist, no problem.  Perhaps if you look further afield you will find something.  All the books written by sincere spiritual seekers can't be wrong.  So anyway, I experienced telepathy with Mr. Yueng, I had some visit from beings in the spirit realm, and a whole lot more that I thought didn't exist.
> 
> I may be the only person who you know who can demonstrate chi, and you don't believe me = )  Come on down to Ecuador if you are curious enough.


Actually, all the books can be wrong. It doesn't matter how many people claim something - it's only true if it is true without the mountain of claims.

I also don't believe for a moment that powers like that wouldn't eventually show up in the public eye, because someone could make a fortune off them. And eventually, someone who wants to make a fortune (perhaps so they can use that fortune to solve hunger issues in their country - so they don't have to be greedy) would learn enough to do so.

One interesting note is that I've had many people over the years say they could show me, if I came to visit them. Oddly, I've never once met anyone who could demonstrate to me. Nor do I know anyone who's met anyone who could demonstrate to them. These offers seem to happen only at a distance. That doesn't mean the offers aren't real, nor that the people couldn't demonstrate. But you have to admit, it doesn't come down on the side of convincing evidence.


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## Encho (Sep 12, 2019)

Starjumper7 said:


> Well, that's not surprising, I was exactly the same way, I had all kinds of 'beliefs' about it.  It is understandable that people who haven't experienced such things will think they don't exist, no problem.  Perhaps if you look further afield you will find something.  All the books written by sincere spiritual seekers can't be wrong.  So anyway, I experienced telepathy with Mr. Yueng, I had some visit from beings in the spirit realm, and a whole lot more that I thought didn't exist.
> 
> I may be the only person who you know who can demonstrate chi, and you don't believe me = )  Come on down to Ecuador if you are curious enough.


In a religious context I think it is fine, There are rituals in Daojiao that have no real science and I do not think any Priests try to justify with a scientific explanation or rationalize it, it is purely based on faith. I believe everyone demonstrates Qi, if you are breathing in and out, more extraordinary claims I file in the religious context.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Sep 12, 2019)

Starjumper7 said:


> The thing is, I've felt tremendous heat from my teacher's hands, and I myself can make a person say "ouch it's hot!" when I have scanned their belly for a few seconds.  So I know it is possible.


My teacher (1908 - 1986) who had traveled through China from north to south all his life once told me, "All my life I tried to meet a Chi master and I could not find any?"

I also told my students that if I can meet a Chi master, I'll pay him $10,000 myself. So far nobody has received my offer yet.

When Chi master suddenly appear in 21th century, It makes no logic sense to me. Which secret hole did those Chi masters crawl out from?

A Chi master must have a Chi master teacher. His Chi master teacher must also have a Chi master teacher. When an acupuncture doctor who had learned the initial 7 Taiji moves from me became Chi master 3 years later, I then understood it's possible that Chi master can be born from nothing.


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## Dirty Dog (Sep 12, 2019)

Starjumper7 said:


> Well, that's not surprising, I was exactly the same way, I had all kinds of 'beliefs' about it.  It is understandable that people who haven't experienced such things will think they don't exist, no problem.  Perhaps if you look further afield you will find something.



And yet, nobody has...



> All the books written by sincere spiritual seekers can't be wrong.



Sure they can.



> So anyway, I experienced telepathy with Mr. Yueng, I had some visit from beings in the spirit realm, and a whole lot more that I thought didn't exist.
> 
> I may be the only person who you know who can demonstrate chi, and you don't believe me = )  Come on down to Ecuador if you are curious enough.



People are being very nice here, and that's good. But, bluntly, I can't decide if you're just incredibly gullible and really believe this nonsense, or if you're just trying to cash in on gullible people and make a buck off the nonsense you published in that silly fantasy novel on your web site.


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## ShortBridge (Sep 12, 2019)

How about this:

I'm a Seattlite. I would love to experience this. If you'd be willing to make a private introduction between me and one of your teachers, students or contemporaries I would respectfully meet them and be open to what they have to demonstrate to me.

To be clear, I'm not challenging anyone to a fight or trying to call anyone out on anything. I'm a lifetime martial artist and like Kung Fu Wang's teacher if there is a Chi Master or some people near me with a higher level of learning I would be legitimately interested and grateful for the opportunity to have my worldview open up.

My club is hidden away in a basement in Chinatown. I know that some of the original Bruce Lee disciples from Seattle do or did train hidden away in a different basement in Chinatown, I don't know if that is your circle or a different one, but we could meet at my place or theirs or in Hing Hay Park, whatever would be most comfortable to them.

I will treat them respectfully and report back what I experience and observe honestly and without malice. Please consider my sincere offer. It has to be better than arguing about it with people on the internet.


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## jks9199 (Sep 12, 2019)

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.  You've made lots of claims -- but I've seen no evidence.

I have seen and felt a small handful of things that are outside normal experience in the realm of internal energy. I once saw a demonstration of sticky palm energy that lifted a passive subject maybe, just maybe an inch.  Likely less...  I've felt a very soft pull or push, and even done it myself a few times.  So soft that it was just beyond a dizzy wobble.  None of it was enough to be be something I'd count on for combat... more on the level of parlor tricks.  

I think a lot of stuff in this realm falls into a "I meant to do that" kind of category.  For example, a perfectly timed impact to the chest CAN disrupt heart rhythms.  Happens a handful of times in baseball and football across the country every year...  In other cases, the right forces into the chest (and they're less than people think, so I could see a very strong punch or kick doing it) can cause aortic disection.  I suspect that some of the "death touch" stuff started from that sort of thing -- and the guy who did it saying "I meant to do that!"


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## Martial D (Sep 12, 2019)

Oh boy. 

Anyway book for sale linked in sig explains much.


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## Starjumper7 (Sep 13, 2019)

ShortBridge said:


> How about this:
> 
> I'm a Seattlite. I would love to experience this. If you'd be willing to make a private introduction between me and one of your teachers, students or contemporaries I would respectfully meet them and be open to what they have to demonstrate to me.
> 
> ...



That's fine, if you wish, I will contact my kung fu brother and fearless clan leader, he does not want his name mentioned on internet forums, and we can see why.  The thing is that he lives near to Walla Walla so you would need to travel.  Once in a great while he goes to Seattle to give a seminar.  He has more abilities than me, but he may be unwilling to demonstrate chi power to a stranger, what he is all about is the kung fu side of things, and that's what he wants to teach.  His interest in chi kung actually is more for health, but like I said, he has more power than I do.  He did train with some of Bruces disciples, but more importantly, he trained with Bruce's 'sources'.

It is good that you are open minded, as we can see many people who have no experience in the matter have a lot of expert 'beliefs' that are ungrounded.  I just wonder why they have to advertise it over and over?   There are people who do experience it and reject it due to having no self honesty.


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## Encho (Sep 13, 2019)

Starjumper7 said:


> That's fine, if you wish, I will contact my kung fu brother and fearless clan leader, he does not want his name mentioned on internet forums, and we can see why.  The thing is that he lives near to Walla Walla so you would need to travel.  Once in a great while he goes to Seattle to give a seminar.  He has more abilities than me, but he may be unwilling to demonstrate chi power to a stranger, what he is all about is the kung fu side of things, and that's what he wants to teach.  His interest in chi kung actually is more for health, but like I said, he has more power than I do.  He did train with some of Bruces disciples, but more importantly, he trained with Bruce's 'sources'.
> 
> It is good that you are open minded, as we can see many people who have no experience in the matter have a lot of expert 'beliefs' that are ungrounded.  I just wonder why they have to advertise it over and over?   There are people who do experience it and reject it due to having no self honesty.


Are you referring to Steve Smith?
http://seattlencgf.com


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## wooden man (Sep 13, 2019)

Martial D said:


> Oh boy.
> 
> Anyway book for sale linked in sig explains much.



Why is it no surprise that it is self published - the backstory wouldn't stand up to the scrutiny of the likes of Shambala
or Tuttle ?


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## Starjumper7 (Sep 13, 2019)

gpseymour said:


> I also don't believe for a moment that powers like that wouldn't eventually show up in the public eye, because someone could make a fortune off them. And eventually, someone who wants to make a fortune (perhaps so they can use that fortune to solve hunger issues in their country - so they don't have to be greedy) would learn enough to do so.



Maybe you haven't heard of this concept, but:  people who are spiritual are not materialistic.  In any case check out Chuny Lin, he may fit your description, he has lots of abilites, makes lots of money, but I don't know if he is charitable with it.  He does feel like one of the 'good guys'


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## Encho (Sep 13, 2019)

Starjumper7 said:


> Maybe you haven't heard of this concept, but:  people who are spiritual are not materialistic.  In any case check out Chuny Lin, he may fit your description, he has lots of abilites, makes lots of money, but I don't know if he is charitable with it.  He does feel like one of the 'good guys'


Says the guy selling a Book, a DVD, and Retreat packages


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## Xue Sheng (Sep 13, 2019)

jks9199 said:


> Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.  You've made lots of claims -- but I've seen no evidence.
> 
> I have seen and felt a small handful of things that are outside normal experience in the realm of internal energy. I once saw a demonstration of sticky palm energy that lifted a passive subject maybe, just maybe an inch.  Likely less...  I've felt a very soft pull or push, and even done it myself a few times.  So soft that it was just beyond a dizzy wobble.  None of it was enough to be be something I'd count on for combat... more on the level of parlor tricks.
> 
> I think a lot of stuff in this realm falls into a "I meant to do that" kind of category.  For example, a perfectly timed impact to the chest CAN disrupt heart rhythms.  Happens a handful of times in baseball and football across the country every year...  In other cases, the right forces into the chest (and they're less than people think, so I could see a very strong punch or kick doing it) can cause aortic disection.  I suspect that some of the "death touch" stuff started from that sort of thing -- and the guy who did it saying "I meant to do that!"



You should have worked with my Yang Shifu. That kind of soft, relaxed touch and moving others with what appears to be no effort is not magic, it is training, years and years of training and some of that on sensitivity. Basically he can feel where you are going before you do. Once asked him what would happen if someone threw a punch, he said go ahead, so I did. Still have no idea how I ended top standing behind him, but in a blink that is where I was. And I was in an INCREDIBLY vulnerable position, my back to him. He also has the best qinna I have ever come across, can't even tell its coming and your locked...and/or on the floor. and he never ever appears to be exerting any muscle at all. 

But he is one of the last old school guys and there are fewer and fewer of them every single day, he is in his 80s now. Not magic, training, lots and lots of it with lots and lots of people.


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## Gerry Seymour (Sep 13, 2019)

Starjumper7 said:


> Maybe you haven't heard of this concept, but:  people who are spiritual are not materialistic.  In any case check out Chuny Lin, he may fit your description, he has lots of abilites, makes lots of money, but I don't know if he is charitable with it.  He does feel like one of the 'good guys'


And have no interest in finding money to help others?


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## ShortBridge (Sep 13, 2019)

Encho said:


> http://seattlencgf.com



This group of people is known to be training fairly hidden away in Seattle in a non-commercial way. They are generally well respected. I have not met or trained with any of them directly, but I do know people who have spent some time training with them either as a student or a guest. I've not heard anything negative about them, only respect, but no one I know has ever said that they are amazing or any higher level of skill than anyone else. Just good people who are going about their business, training well, and not looking for attention or making claims, which I respect and it's very similar to how I have approached the club that I run.

But, I've never heard claims of any "supra-natural" abilities associated with what they do. Reviewing this website and the clips that I found through it, I don't see any mention of chi or internal energy, remote viewing or any of the other things that we've been talking about in these threads. It would surprise me to hear any of these types of claims associated with Jesse Glover.





Starjumper7 said:


> That's fine, if you wish, I will contact my kung fu brother and fearless clan leader, he does not want his name mentioned on internet forums, and we can see why.  The thing is that he lives near to Walla Walla so you would need to travel.  Once in a great while he goes to Seattle to give a seminar.  He has more abilities than me, but he may be unwilling to demonstrate chi power to a stranger, what he is all about is the kung fu side of things, and that's what he wants to teach.  His interest in chi kung actually is more for health, but like I said, he has more power than I do.  He did train with some of Bruces disciples, but more importantly, he trained with Bruce's 'sources'.
> 
> It is good that you are open minded, as we can see many people who have no experience in the matter have a lot of expert 'beliefs' that are ungrounded.  I just wonder why they have to advertise it over and over?   There are people who do experience it and reject it due to having no self honesty.



Well, I'm open, interested, and willing. Watching the Seattle NCGF clips above, I'd be happy to know those guys have a friendly exchange between our clubs if they were interested, but I wouldn't drive over the mountains to Walla Walla for the types of Gung Fu/self defense drills I see in those clips, because I can train that way here.

You seem to be saying that no one in Seattle has the type of abilities that you've written about and have been asserting despite the fact that they were all learned here. You also seem to be saying that if I travel to Walla Walla he would likely not show me anyway, so I don't think that helps. It's gracious of you to offer to freely share if anyone is willing to cross the equator to meet you, but I'm not available and I think it's a pretty safe bet that no one is likely to take you up on that. 

Again, I'm not challenging anyone or trying to fraud bust. I am private about what I do and would respect his privacy including putting his name into the public. He could set his boundaries and I would respect and honor them. I am not a teenage MMA fan, I do conduct myself honorably in the martial arts community on the rare occasions when I involve myself directly in it beyond my own fairly private training. 

If he could convince me that he has supra-natural abilities and that they were obtainable, that would change my worldview and perception of what is possible through training. I'd be foolish not to start the long, slow process of trying to become his student and respecting the fact that he may never accept me. 

But, like has been said by other people in these threads who are not in the position I am to put myself physically out there, you're making remarkable claims and if no one is willing or able to demonstrate those claims, then we're at an impasse. 

Strangers are just friends or students who you haven't met yet and if you introduce me than I am certainly no more a stranger than any other student who may come into his acquaintance. My SiGung and Bruce Lee were friends in Hong Kong. We're distant cousins, so to speak. I'm not trying to push, but it seems like I am in a unique position to substantiate your claims and it seems that as far as you have extended yourself and these abilities through your book and postings here that you would be interested in seeing that happen. My offer stands.


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## Buka (Sep 13, 2019)

I am in serious need of some popcorn.


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## Xue Sheng (Sep 13, 2019)

ShortBridge said:


> It would surprise me to hear any of these types of claims associated with Jesse Glover.



As would virtually anyone that had any connection, even a minor one to his teacher Bruce Lee.


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## ShortBridge (Sep 13, 2019)

Xue Sheng said:


> As would virtually anyone that had any connection, even a minor one to his teacher Bruce Lee.



I don't know, maybe. I'm a Wing Chun guy, not a Bruce Lee guy. I think in the expansive cult of Bruce Lee you'll find all sorts of things. These are not typically things I hear about in the context of JKD and it not my impression of the club related to Jesse Glover here in Seattle, though.

Then again, I had never heard of Fook Yang and apparently he was a real person. I remain open and willing. It seems a like a rare and great opportunity to bring something out of the browser and into the real world.


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## Xue Sheng (Sep 13, 2019)

ShortBridge said:


> I don't know, maybe. I'm a Wing Chun guy, not a Bruce Lee guy. I think in the expansive cult of Bruce Lee you'll find all sorts of things. These are not typically things I hear about in the context of JKD and it not my impression of the club related to Jesse Glover here in Seattle, though.
> 
> Then again, I had never heard of Fook Yang and apparently he was a real person. I remain open and willing. It seems a like a rare and great opportunity to bring something out of the browser and into the real world.



Cult possibly, real live practitioners, I seriously doubt you will find it. At least that was my experience the few times I have trained JKD and with the JKD folks I have spoken to


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## ShortBridge (Sep 13, 2019)

Xue Sheng said:


> Cult possibly, real live practitioners, I seriously doubt you will find it. At least that was my experience the few times I have trained JKD and with the JKD folks I have spoken to



My experience as well in real life. But, on-line I read a lot of things about Bruce Lee that seem inconsistent with that practical, straightforward JKD mentality.


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## snake_monkey (Sep 13, 2019)

This is a great discussion for the internet. This forum is very friendly. 

Look, he’s obviously not trying to prove himself too much. It’s fine for these things to remain hidden the way they are and for the ‘real answers’ to be hidden away too. We don’t have to take anybody’s word for it but it can be helpful to keep an open mind. 

This is a nei Kung discussion so let it be about nei Kung. Actually I’m interested in a bit more information as it may help my qigong plus I’m trying to keep an open mind.


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## Xue Sheng (Sep 13, 2019)

Neigong is part of Neijia. Xingyiquan, Baguazhang, Taijiquan are all part of Neijia and fall under the category of martial neigong. Non martial Neigong is Daoyin. Daoyin is an old word for Qigong.


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## Encho (Sep 14, 2019)

Since StarJumper7 disagrees with my comment, here is his prices and cost  


"Cost for the ten day retreat is $700.

Cost for retreats organized by others is $70 per day, five day minimum. Five people minimum, and ten people maximum may attend. Organizer should check availability for their date of choice before proceeding"
Taoist Hermitage in Ecuador - Qigong Retreat

Here is your video for  $15
Watch Tien Shan Chi Kung - Level 1 - by Steve Gray, student of Fook Yueng Online | Vimeo On Demand

Here is your book for $15
https://www.amazon.com/dp/1096086778

I am going to leave this video of you doing Chen Taijiquan and Chen Zhenglei doing Chen Taijiquan
 I wouldn't expect you to be as good as Chen Zhenglei, but if you are charging people and saying others do not possess the real neigong then perhaps you should at least be 25% as good as Chen Zhenglei.


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## Starjumper7 (Sep 15, 2019)

ShortBridge said:


> My experience as well in real life. But, on-line I read a lot of things about Bruce Lee that seem inconsistent with that practical, straightforward JKD mentality.



What Bruce learned was all internal art, but he taught JKD as an external art, teaching techniques, but hiding the basics.

This is very common for Chinese teachers who teach gringos


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## Xue Sheng (Sep 15, 2019)

Starjumper7 said:


> What Bruce learned was all internal art, but he taught it as n external art, teaching techniques, but hidng the basics.



Actually no, what Bruce learned was Wing Chun, and I believe the only form he finished was Siu Nim Tao, some Muk Yan Jong and possibly some work on Chum Kiu. And although there is an argument that Wing Chun is an internal art, by definition it is not. However I tend to put it in the same category of internal you find Xingyiquan. But still, by most standards of an Internal Chinese Martial art it is not internal (but then Chen Fa Ke never called his Chen style internal either) The rest of what went into JKD came from various other sources, none of which would be thought of as internal; Boxing, fencing, etc.

So I believe you are incorrect with that statement.


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## Encho (Sep 15, 2019)

Lets suppose Bruce Lee did learn Secret assassin kungfu and his Wing Chun training was a cover or limited or whatever

If we look at his final product, his final training and direction he was going, it clearly shows influence from other arts especially western boxing, fencing. 

We can see in his notes he was looking and taking from other arts to add to his tool box. We find no mention of anything hinting at some secret assassin art, 

if a person learned something as an internal art, they would move and teach internal, it is ingrained into the muscle memory, the theory of how a person reacts and performs a technique. It makes no logical sense for someone to learn an internal system, completely disregard it, add completely external arts to it, and then call it an internal system.
If someone did learn this secret assassin art but taught an external art influenced by western arts then clearly it must mean that, the assassin art sucked on its own other wise why need to supplement it or completely modify it.

If Bruce Lee was training as frantic as he was in his training and development and who would write even his breakfast and running with his dog you would think in his notes there would be some writings speaking about internal and or a nod to his secret assassin training.


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## Starjumper7 (Sep 15, 2019)

Xue Sheng said:


> So I believe you are incorrect with that statement.



Only if you ignore who his main teacher was.  Of course what I said was a generalization.  He taught the most to Jesse Glover, who was his most advanced student, and less to other people as JKD.


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## Starjumper7 (Sep 15, 2019)

Encho said:


> "Cost for the ten day retreat is $700.
> 
> 
> Cost for retreats organized by others is $70 per day, five day minimum. Five people minimum, and ten people maximum may attend. Organizer should check availability for their date of choice before proceeding"
> ...




Well, I never really was interested in doing retreats because I only want serious students.  However several volunteers who have come here were very impressed with the chi kung, they said I should have retreats, and that they could bring groups of friends to them.  I had one person come here after reading my book, and since the book says nothing about teaching and students, she came as a volunteer.   My wife also often tells me we should have retreats, so finally I gave in.  I always felt that I should have low prices, but the wife insists I charge higher prices (it includes a luxury type cuisine, because she is a master chef).  Anyway, if people are going to take all the time and spend all the money required to travel here then the cost of the retreat is less than travel expenses even at the price listed.    I finally agreed because having retreats seems like a good way for possible serious students to check me out.  In any case, I think that cost for a retreat is in the ballpark, in the midrange, for this kind of retreat.  What would you suggest as a fair price?  Keep in mind that retreat is for sharing Mr. Yueng's chi kung, not for tai chi.  My main thing is chi kung, and I do a little tai chi as a hobby these days, plus tai chi is better than chi kung for me if I have a lot on my mind.  I don't claim to be a tai chi master or adept, but I know more about chi kung and nei kung than a lot of people who call themselves chi kung masters


Lucky people would click the 'Home' button on that retreats page and it would take them to my main website, which I did not want to list in the book or here, but you forced me = )   I didn't want to make it too easy.  If you know what happened to John Chang you would see why.  I think prices for long term students are what you would call reasonable.  We also have some volunteers here at times, it means they get to stay here for free if they work 20 hours a week on the farm.


My Chen video which you disapproved of was made a long time ago for a couple of beginner Chen students, which is why it is rear view and has the very simplistic flavor.  I didn't realize that video was still up there, but I can't remove it now because I no longer have that account on Utube.  If you were more interested in fairness you might have shared my latest Chen video which is on Vimeo, which you linked to.


Thanks for sharing my Tien Shan chi kung video and my book link.


You know, I wasn't going to bother to write the book about Mr. Yueng, but I thought it would be an easy way to supplement my social security income, and possibly find a very few good students.  I need to cover some expenses, like, I'm two years behind on my house taxes, I need to get the old rusty trusty Land Cruiser licensed.  Don't have any health, house, or car insurance.I would like to finish my house and be able to get a little furniture (we're using mostly plastic chairs now, and a couple of plastic tables.)  I also need to get some surgery on my hand, and  upgrade the little tin shacks we have for volunteers and students.  That's just the tip of the iceberg, there's plenty more - so here I am whoring myself in front of a bunch of sometimes rude strangers in order to make ends meet, when ideally I should be staying hidden.  Anyway, it beats having stayed in the states and needing government 'subsidies' to live, or be homeless


I really do believe that real nei kung is one of the most profound and valuable methods of self improvement that there is.


Anyway, my wife will be getting social security soon, and that will help a lot - so for ten cents I might say the hell with all this book and forum BS and just rest in peace, as I was advised recently by some spirit guide or something that you probably believe do not exist.


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## Starjumper7 (Sep 15, 2019)

Encho said:


> If someone did learn this secret assassin art but taught an external art influenced by western arts then clearly it must mean that, the assassin art sucked on its own other wise why need to supplement it or completely modify it.



I think I already explained that earlier.  Chinese kung fu masters like to hide stuff, and some like to hide a lot of it.  Plus, Bruce was enamored with the idea of knocking people out, which his teacher was not interested in.  Remember, Mr. Yueng told him not to reveal who his teacher was, and that would include the assassin lineage.  If he had revealed it, it would have made things very complicated for him.


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## Starjumper7 (Sep 15, 2019)

Encho said:


> If Bruce Lee was training as frantic as he was in his training and development and who would write even his breakfast and running with his dog you would think in his notes there would be some writings speaking about internal and or a nod to his secret assassin training.



Technically it wasn't assassin training, it was a blend of many internal arts, but the source of it, Red Boat Wing Chun+, was used by assassins.


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## Headhunter (Sep 15, 2019)

Starjumper7 said:


> I think I already explained that earlier.  Chinese kung fu masters like to hide stuff, and some like to hide a lot of it.  Plus, Bruce was enamored with the idea of knocking people out, which his teacher was not interested in.  Remember, Mr. Yueng told him not to reveal who his teacher was, and that would include the assassin lineage.  If he had revealed it, it would have made things very complicated for him.


And of course Bruce Lee listened to him on this even though he completely went against every single other Chinese Kung fu rule and tradition by teacher westerners and publishing books on the subject which was frowned upon by the Chinese community and even put him at odds with his real teacher ip man but despite all that he refused to mention this one guy to literally anyone even though he'd broke every other rule in that community...hmm I'm sorry but that sounds very suspect to me


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## Encho (Sep 15, 2019)

"Well, I never really was interested in doing retreats because I only want serious students. However several volunteers who have come here were very impressed with the chi kung, they said I should have retreats, and that they could bring groups of friends to them. I had one person come here after reading my book, and since the book says nothing about teaching and students, she came as a volunteer. My wife also often tells me we should have retreats, so finally I gave in. I always felt that I should have low prices, but the wife insists I charge higher prices (it includes a luxury type cuisine, because she is a master chef). Anyway, if people are going to take all the time and spend all the money required to travel here then the cost of the retreat is less than travel expenses even at the price listed. I finally agreed because having retreats seems like a good way for possible serious students to check me out. In any case, I think that cost for a retreat is in the ballpark, in the midrange, for this kind of retreat. What would you suggest as a fair price? Keep in mind that retreat is for sharing Mr. Yueng's chi kung, not for tai chi. My main thing is chi kung, and I do a little tai chi as a hobby these days, plus tai chi is better than chi kung for me if I have a lot on my mind. I don't claim to be a tai chi master or adept, but I know more about chi kung and nei kung than a lot of people who call themselves chi kung masters"

-Blame the wife nice one. You miss the point, here is what you said
"Maybe you haven't heard of this concept, but: people who are spiritual are not materialistic. "
I understand people need to make a living, no harm no foul, but when someone says something like this and is promoting a book, video, and retreats for money it seems
hypocritical. Maybe you are materialistic and not spiritual? or honestly spiritual and materialistic which is fine too.

For $700 a retreat better to just go to China and learn directly on the mountain.

I find it odd you claim to know more about Qigong and Neigong but can not even use the Pinyin for them

"it means they get to stay here for free if they work 20 hours a week on the farm."
Sounds more like slavery

"My Chen video which you disapproved of was made a long time ago for a couple of beginner Chen students, which is why it is rear view and has the very simplistic flavor. I didn't realize that video was still up there, but I can't remove it now because I no longer have that account on Utube. If you were more interested in fairness you might have shared my latest Chen video which is on Vimeo, which you linked to."

Someone sent me that video which is why I know about it. It does not have a simplistic flavor it has a lack of fundmentals for Chen style here is someone who has been practicing for a year, though he looks robotic, a Chen stylist can make out the form and start to see some of the fundementals in it. That video looks like someone who may have had very little training and does not look like someone should be teaching Chen Taijiquan. Your new video I don't know, you have so many websites its hard to keep track of which one to go to in order to find things.





"You know, I wasn't going to bother to write the book about Mr. Yueng, but I thought it would be an easy way to supplement my social security income, and possibly find a very few good students. I need to cover some expenses, like, I'm two years behind on my house taxes, I need to get the old rusty trusty Land Cruiser licensed. Don't have any health, house, or car insurance.I would like to finish my house and be able to get a little furniture (we're using mostly plastic chairs now, and a couple of plastic tables.) I also need to get some surgery on my hand, and upgrade the little tin shacks we have for volunteers and students. That's just the tip of the iceberg, there's plenty more - so here I am whoring myself in front of a bunch of sometimes rude strangers in order to make ends meet, when ideally I should be staying hidden. Anyway, it beats having stayed in the states and needing government 'subsidies' to live, or be homeless"

Sorry your life sucks, but you choose to come here peddling your stuff expect criticism especially when you spout nonsense and try to say eveyone doesn't know neigong and you do.

"I really do believe that real nei kung is one of the most profound and valuable methods of self improvement that there is."
It is also one of the fastest ways someone can become delusional in their training.



"Anyway, my wife will be getting social security soon, and that will help a lot - so for ten cents I might say the hell with all this book and forum BS and just rest in peace, as I was advised recently by some spirit guide or something that you probably believe do not exist."
Your writing does come off a little delusional and mania and it reminds me of Ken Cohen's story about the Qigong master who could see rainbows and different levels.
Qigong Psychosis is very real.  I have seen many people on Martialtalk since 2006 who share similar characteristics and try to sell some secret only they possess,
they follow always the same pattern
1.discredit all other teachers as not having the real skill
2. say only you have the real skill
3. come up with some crazy history, nonsense
4.Plug a book, video, retreat, membership


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## Encho (Sep 15, 2019)

Starjumper7 said:


> Technically it wasn't assassin training, it was a blend of many internal arts, but the source of it, Red Boat Wing Chun+, was used by assassins.


Just say Wing Chun, even the guys doing Ninjutsu don't even use the term used by assassins


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## Encho (Sep 15, 2019)

Starjumper7 said:


> I think I already explained that earlier.  Chinese kung fu masters like to hide stuff, and some like to hide a lot of it.  Plus, Bruce was enamored with the idea of knocking people out, which his teacher was not interested in.  Remember, Mr. Yueng told him not to reveal who his teacher was, and that would include the assassin lineage.  If he had revealed it, it would have made things very complicated for him.


So Bruce Lee said you know what, I am going to just study western boxing, fencing, wrestling and anything else I can get my hands on, drop this secret assassin lineage and make my art based on these arts and my sparring practice which is why his notes and everything points to looks like he did.


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## Starjumper7 (Sep 15, 2019)

Headhunter said:


> And of course Bruce Lee listened to him on this even though he completely went against every single other Chinese Kung fu rule and tradition by teacher westerners and publishing books on the subject which was frowned upon by the Chinese community and even put him at odds with his real teacher ip man but despite all that he refused to mention this one guy to literally anyone even though he'd broke every other rule in that community...hmm I'm sorry but that sounds very suspect to me



Mr. Yueng was his Uncle, main teacher and friend, he did listen to him.  Mr. Yueng did not tell him to not teach gringos, but in fact he did not teach them the 'real' thing, so he was following tradition in a way.  He liked money and popularity.

Mr. Yueng also wanted to only teach nei kung to Chinese people, but none were interested, so he was forced to teach a couple of gringos because of the unwritten law that a master of such a thing must teach at least one person before they die.  He said that the American Chinese are only interested in chasing after the almighty dollar and were not interested in spiritual cultivation.  He was so pissed of about that, that even three years after I started with him he said, and I quote:  "Chinese people STUPID!".  But actually he loved China and Chinese people, it gets complicated.

So the up-shoot of all that is that I'm probably one of the few people in the whole world who knows real nei kung and am willing to teach it to Westerners.

I think we're done with this Bruce Lee squabbling now. This thread is for nei kung.   I will no longer answer stupid comments from clueless amateurs about Bruce Lee.  GET THE MESSAGE???


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## Starjumper7 (Sep 15, 2019)

Encho said:


> Just say Wing Chun, even the guys doing Ninjutsu don't even use the term used by assassins



That's a very good idea!


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## Starjumper7 (Sep 15, 2019)

Encho said:


> For $700 a retreat better to just go to China and learn directly on the mountain.



The Chances of a gringo being taught an entire system of nei kung in China is vanishingly small, but one in a million may find the right teacher.


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## Starjumper7 (Sep 15, 2019)

Encho said:


> Sorry your life sucks, but you choose to come here peddling your stuff expect criticism especially when you spout nonsense and try to say eveyone doesn't know neigong and you do.



What is offered as nei kung to the public by the scammers is a lie.  You would find out all the details if you read the book.  But wait, you're calling me a liar, so you wouldn't read the book.

Your concept of Chen tai chi is a joke, my grandfather teacher is the notorious Feng Zhiquiang, and my teacher was Madam Gao Fu, Official National Living Treasure of China.

This is a partial list of my teachers, it does not include the guy that was high up in the CIA:  A Lineage of Dragons


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## Encho (Sep 15, 2019)

Starjumper7 said:


> Mr. Yueng was his Uncle, main teacher and friend, he did listen to him.  Mr. Yueng did not tell him to not teach gringos, but in fact he did not teach them the 'real' thing, so he was following tradition in a way.  He liked money and popularity.
> 
> Mr. Yueng also wanted to only teach nei kung to Chinese people, but none were interested, so he was forced to teach a couple of gringos because of the unwritten law that a master of such a thing must teach at least one person before they die.  He said that the American Chinese are only interested in chasing after the almighty dollar and were not interested in spiritual cultivation.  He was so pissed of about that, that even three years after I started with him he said, and I quote:  "Chinese people STUPID!".  But actually he loved China and Chinese people, it gets complicated.
> 
> ...


So the up-shoot of all that is that I'm probably one of the few people in the whole world who knows real nei kung and am willing to teach it to Westerners."
Well if we are going to base it on your  latest Chen Taijiquan video




People are better learning from someone else frankly


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## Encho (Sep 15, 2019)

Starjumper7 said:


> The Chances of a gringo being taught an entire system of nei kung in China is vanishingly small, but one in a million may find the right teacher.


That is because no one in China teacher Nei Kung  they teach Neigong 
I do not have a problem learning in China and who is to say I do not know Neigong myself though I do not write books, make videos of it, or hold retreats, if I did teach that would be for free.


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## Starjumper7 (Sep 15, 2019)

Encho said:


> Sorry your life sucks



It's not sucky at all, it is WAY preferable to having remained in the land of poison.  Like I said, since I'm not materialistic these financial things hardly bother me, I was just explaining why I wrote the book.  Partly it was to out all the liars claiming to teach nei kung, and partly it was to find a couple of serious students.


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## Flying Crane (Sep 15, 2019)

Starjumper7 said:


> It's not sucky at all, it is WAY preferable to having remained in the land of poison.  Like I said, since I'm not materialistic these financial things hardly bother me, I was just explaining why I wrote the book.  Partly it was to out all the liars claiming to teach nei kung, and partly it was to find a couple of serious students.


Did you specifically name all the liars in your book?  So we all know who they are so we too can grab a torch and pitch fork?


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## Starjumper7 (Sep 15, 2019)

Encho said:


> That is because no one in China teacher Nei Kung  they teach Neigong
> I do not have a problem learning in China and who is to say I do not know Neigong myself though I do not write books, make videos of it, or hold retreats, if I did teach that would be for free.



I spell things how I feel like, and I'm old fashioned, traditional in a way.  If you claim to know nie kung then you're probably one of the liars or the clueless student of an up-line liar, which is why this thread bothers you so much..


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## Encho (Sep 15, 2019)

Starjumper7 said:


> What is offered as nei kung to the public by the scammers is a lie.  You would find out all the details if you read the book.  But wait, you're calling me a liar, so you wouldn't buy the book.
> 
> Your concept of Chen tai chi is a joke, my grandfather teacher is Feng Zhiquiang, and my teacher was Madam Gao Fu, Official National Living Treasure of China.
> 
> This is a partial list of my teachers, it does not include the guy that was high up in the CIA:  A Lineage of Dragons



*they follow always the same pattern
1.discredit all other teachers as not having the real skill
2. say only you have the real skill
3. come up with some crazy history, nonsense
4.Plug a book, video, retreat, membership*
What did I say before 
Well considering my Chen Taijiquan line comes from Chen Xiaowang's line, 
Bob Bacher line comes from Chen Line I have trained with Bob a long time ago in that line before I went into Chen Xiaowang's line.
Point was there are certain characteristics in Chen Taijiquan your form does not have them. Look at any Chen form and compare your form to them.
Chen Taijiquan isn't even my main internal art, I personally think my Chen Taijiquan is terrible, mostly because I do not practice my form, I am honest about it.


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## Starjumper7 (Sep 15, 2019)

Flying Crane said:


> Did you specifically name all the liars in your book? So we all know who they are so we too can grab a torch and pitch fork?



Just one of them, the one who is hurting a lot people with his lies, now there's a guy who made a lot of money selling books full of dangerous BS.  There's another one that is mentioned in a different context in the book, Lama Dorje Dumbdrop.


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## Encho (Sep 15, 2019)

Starjumper7 said:


> I spell things how I feel like, and I'm old fashioned, traditional in a way.  If you claim to know nie kung then you're probably one of the liars or the clueless student of an up-line liar, which is why this thread bothers you so much..



So you can claim you know Neigong but your not a liar, but if I claim it I am a liar 
I do not claim to know Neigong, though if you read my posts people might say I do.
I do claim I have licenses and titles Encho is license and title name not just my screen name Though I do not take it to seriously.


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## Starjumper7 (Sep 15, 2019)

That is the most horrible tai chi performance I have seen.  No internal, totally external, a rank beginner.  If you think that's good then I can see you aint worth talking to any more.

This is the best Chen style tai chi you will ever see:




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2325571964355874


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## Starjumper7 (Sep 15, 2019)

Encho said:


> So you can claim you know Neigong but your not a liar, but if I claim it I am a liar
> I do not claim to know Neigong, though if you read my posts people might say I do.
> I do claim I have licenses and titles Encho is license and title name not just my screen name Though I do not take it to seriously.



You're one of those amateurs with a certificate?  That's hilarious.  A certificate in nei kung is a sure sign of mediocrity.  If you ever see a wizard with a certificate you can be sure the world has gone to hell.


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## Encho (Sep 15, 2019)

Starjumper7 said:


> That is the most horrible tai chi performance I have seen.  No internal, totally external, a rank beginner.  If you think that's good then I can see you aint worth talking to any more.
> 
> This is the best Chen style tai chi you will ever see:
> 
> ...


His Taijiquan is better than yours! The point was he has only been doing it a year! Meaning your Chen Taijiquan isn't even good enough for a 1 year student in Chen Taijiquan.


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## Encho (Sep 15, 2019)

Starjumper7 said:


> You're one of those amateurs with a certificate?  That's hilarious.  A certificate in nei kung is a sure sign of mediocrity.  If you ever see a wizard with a certificate you can be sure the world has gone to hell.


I do not have a certificate in Neigong nor did I claim I did. I said Encho is my license and title, I was given that, though originally I did not pass my license exam because my answers were not long enough.


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## Starjumper7 (Sep 15, 2019)

You're just looking to give me ****, boy.  Come back when you grow up.


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## jks9199 (Sep 15, 2019)

Thread locked for Staff review

Jks9199 
Administrator

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


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