# Andy: (& anyone else) re: Safecarry



## zDom (Feb 4, 2009)

Andy Moynihan said:


> www.smartcarry.com
> 
> Photo example: http://www.smartcarry.com/scinvi.htm
> 
> ...



Looks OK if you are standing (in the above pic) but what if you sit?

Are there any safe, comfortable concealed rigs for a full-sized auto (i.e., SIG P226)?


----------



## SFC JeffJ (Feb 4, 2009)

Check out www.blackhawk.com

I've been using their SERPA holster for a while now and love it.  Oh, and I've been using two, one for a 1911 and one for a G 17/18.


----------



## searcher (Feb 4, 2009)

SFC JeffJ said:


> Check out www.blackhawk.com
> 
> I've been using their SERPA holster for a while now and love it. Oh, and I've been using two, one for a 1911 and one for a G 17/18.


 

Same here.   The retention is a great thing on the Serpa holster.   Not to mention it forces you to index on the frame.


----------



## Andy Moynihan (Feb 4, 2009)

zDom said:


> Looks OK if you are standing (in the above pic) but what if you sit?
> 
> Are there any safe, comfortable concealed rigs for a full-sized auto (i.e., SIG P226)?


 

I've had no problem with a S&W J-frame size snubbie in mine standing, sitting, running or even once practicing rollouts/breakfalls with it on. I had a larger one where I was even able to stuff a fullsize Glock 21 in it and could still drive and sit, it took an untucked polo to make it unnoticeable but it *is* doable if you wanna do that with the P226( Comparable size but the Glock 21 was wider so it may be a bit easier for you). The owner of that company carries a full size 1911 in his ( though I'm not brave enough for "Condition One" carry of a 1911 in such a holster myself).

Just remember that this is *not* a quickdraw holster, it's a deep concealment holster, and as such is still better for medium to small frame guns.

You will probably need to use H2H or another method to create space and distance to draw( and hey, maybe you'll get lucky and that will end the show then and there), or get behind cover, or discreetly access it prior to beginning festivities if you know something's about to go sideways and can't get away.


More realistically for a full size gun like yours....


For the full size SIG like you have you must accept there will be limits to what you can comfortably wear and you may need to alter your mode of dress to accommodate carry( if you don't like, or can't hide, your gun/holster combo, you won't carry it, and the whole "armed citizen" idea really doesn't work if you're not armed, now does it). 

I'd go with either this:

http://www.gunnersalley.com/product/H715MTB/Don_Hume_IWB_ClipOn_Holster_wThumb_Break_H715M_TB.html

Or This:

http://www.blackhawk.com/product/SERPA-CQC-wMatte-Finish,1145,1410.htm

Depending if you wanna go Inside or Outside the waistband( I recommend inside if you can get used to it, that way your concealment garment can go all the way up to the belt with no oopsie.

I have one of each of those above and the reason I chose them over others is because each has a retention system that will not alter your practiced, natural  drawstroke--don't EVER assume that just because you're carrying concealed that your customer will never discover its location( such as if/when they get close enough to try and get their arms around you and "bump frisk" the gun). 

*The SERPA will keep that gun in long enough for you to access your backup gun(you *DID* buy/*ARE* gonna carry a backup, RIGHT?), swap off to hand to hand/stick a pocketknife in them/whatever you must do to get him off that holster. Yet when you employ your natural drawstroke, out it comes.

*The thumb break snap on the Don Hume leather job will perform the same function( thumb breaks break *down*, when your hand settles into its firing grip, not *up*, as in a snatch attempt) and will secure your gun long enough for you to effect a "thumb break" of your own :EG:. Yet again, it adds no appreciable reaction time to YOUR drawstroke.

*The gun also can't ever accidentally fall out and can save you some very embarrassing public restroom moments   .

* The Leather holster, in particular, can clip on/off your belt, or on off your waistband and secure under your belt, and can be removed without having to draw the gun ( which if for any reason you must disarm such as during any sort of tense conversation with an inquiring LEO after you may have had to use it, for example( there is exponentially far less chance of any fatal misunderstanding. 

So too can the SERPA if you install the Paddle attachment instead of the belt slide( it comes with both).

I use the SERPA as a belt holster for the range and the leather for carry (Only problem I have with the kydex/plastic holsters is they can break under the force of a snatch attempt, hence I like leather). 

Speaking of belts, you will want to buy a dedicated gunbelt, built to take a holster/mag pouch--a standard belt won't do it and WILL make the rig uncomfortable/loose/prone to movement.

Here's the one I use:

http://www.blackhawk.com/product/CQC-Pistol-Belts,794,61.htm

Reinforced, but looks like any other dress belt and not one of these inch and a half wide, quarter inch thick Sam Browne jobs that scream "Gun" from across a room even when no gun is visible.

As to where on your belt it should go, here's an article by Gabe Suarez to get you started:

http://www.sightm1911.com/lib/ccw/carry_modes.htm

Then get back with me and we'll talk about pocket holsters and backup guns


----------



## Deaf Smith (Feb 4, 2009)

The SERPA holster has had it's problems.

http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8774

http://www.rangemaster.com/newsletter/2007-09_RM-Newsletter.pdf

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=164512http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=164512&page=2

Be careful using it.

Deaf


----------



## Andy Moynihan (Feb 4, 2009)

Deaf Smith said:


> The SERPA holster has had it's problems.
> 
> http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8774
> 
> ...


 
Which is why I went with the leather for actual carry ( Also leather allows for a much more quiet draw where necessary as opposed to the scrape of kydex).

Thanks for giving me the extra info re: SERPA field problems.


----------



## SFC JeffJ (Feb 4, 2009)

That's the first I've heard about that problem.

Yet another thing that makes me going dinasaur and switching back to leather.

The gods know I have enough of it.


----------



## searcher (Feb 4, 2009)

I have been using my BH for quite a while and I have never had any problems what so ever.   And it has worked pretty good at allowing me to retain my sidearm while in a H2H situation.


----------



## KenpoTex (Feb 4, 2009)

thanks for posting the links to the Serpa problems...saved me from having to look for them. 

Even if the above information handn't been enough, my one experience with them would have been. I tried a brand-new one in a gun store and something broke inside when I pushed the button. As a result, it locked up and would not release the gun (luckily it wasn't my gun ).

There are too many good holsters out there to take a chance on these, IMO. If you want retention, go with a regular thumb-break, or try the Safariland ALS, or the Bianchi "paddle-release" thing (my term there, I don't know what they call it).


----------



## Grenadier (Feb 5, 2009)

zDom said:


> Looks OK if you are standing (in the above pic) but what if you sit?
> 
> Are there any safe, comfortable concealed rigs for a full-sized auto (i.e., SIG P226)?


 
Are you looking for inside the waistband, or outside the waistband?  

For IWB, I suggest the Mitch Rosen ARG holster.   The Rosen company's products may be expensive, but they are amongst the best in the business.  It's a holster that can comfortably accomodate your full size auto, and is quite safe.  It's so well made, that it reduces the "printing" of the gun significantly.  

http://www.mitchrosen.com/product_line/holsters/inside_waistband/body_inside_waistband.html

Or, the Milt Sparks Versamax 2:

http://www.miltsparks.com/VM-2.htm

Tony's got a first-class operation over there, and really knows his stuff.


----------



## Deaf Smith (Feb 5, 2009)

SFC JeffJ said:


> That's the first I've heard about that problem.
> 
> Yet another thing that makes me going dinasaur and switching back to leather.
> 
> The gods know I have enough of it.


 
I have a bucket of holsters Jeff!!! BUCKET!

I've learned to keep my holsters and spare mags when I trade off a gun. That way, being the idiot I am, when I buy another one of 'em, I'm ready to go!

Deaf


----------



## Andy Moynihan (Feb 5, 2009)

Grenadier said:


> Are you looking for inside the waistband, or outside the waistband?
> 
> For IWB, I suggest the Mitch Rosen ARG holster. The Rosen company's products may be expensive, but they are amongst the best in the business. It's a holster that can comfortably accomodate your full size auto, and is quite safe. It's so well made, that it reduces the "printing" of the gun significantly.
> 
> ...


 



If they could make 'em with a thumb break, and I had the money, then maybe I'd give em a call.


----------



## jks9199 (Feb 5, 2009)

You might want to check out Bluegrass Holsters.  It's a one man show -- but he'll work with you to create a holster to fit special needs.  I haven't bought one yet (I've got my eye on the Mason-Dixon...  maybe with income tax money.)


----------



## Grenadier (Feb 6, 2009)

Andy Moynihan said:


> If they could make 'em with a thumb break, and I had the money, then maybe I'd give em a call.


 
The retention abilities of their open-top holsters are excellent.  They do a really good job of carefully fitting a particular gun to the holster, especially around the trigger guard (front and back), and the ejector port.  I've seen folks do situps with one of their holsters, starting from an upside down position, and the gun doesn't come out.  

The gun isn't going anywhere, unless you want to draw it from the holster.  You'll actually feel the gun "click" into the holster, once it's secured.


----------



## zDom (Feb 6, 2009)

Thank you ALL for the input.

Gotta lot to think about ...

Might check around locally, see if I can try some on for size and feel.


----------

