# Questions on Forms



## hector (Jan 13, 2004)

Questions on Forms

Hello all
I am looking for your thoughts ,ideas,opinions or some information about following topics:  

1) In the long forms we find hands isolations, except for the Long 5.   Why?.

2) Have some philosophical meaning or technician the initial stance in the forms ?

  Long 1-2   Horse stance meditation 
  Long 3-4   Attention
  Long 5     Horse stance ( praying hands )
  Long 6     Attention ( push down )

Your point of view  is appreciated.

Hector


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## MisterMike (Jan 13, 2004)

Form 5 is a takedown form, so it has footwork isolations.

Forms up to and including Long Form 2 were the Basics forms, so they started from a Horse stance. The attention stance and full salute was added for display purposes during competitions.

The technique forms Short 3 and up, probably start from attention, or standing, because we wouldn't start a technique from a horse anyways.

Form 5 starts from the praying hands because the theme of the form has us doing techniques from "less than ready or optimal positions."

The Form 6 pushdowns represent a condensed version of the close in the salute, kind of representative of how the circles are condensed as Kenpo advances. There's lots of things you can draw from those double pushdowns, as usually they are crossed when done elsewhere, but they also represent "kissing circles" or ones that do not intersect.

Have you learned these forms officially, and were just not taught, or did you just see them somewhere? What, if any, insights were you taught on those questions?

Thanks,


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## hector (Jan 13, 2004)

I thank your answer Michael being very interesting your points of view. I will have them very present  

My opinion on these topics is the following one:  

1) Long 5 doesn't have isolations, because this form works as a complement of the Long 4 (from the point of view of the attacks, punches and kicks), and for this reason it would not be necessary.  

2) the initial position and the hands in the Forms:  

a) from a technical point of view: to harmonize the origin point and the economy of movements with the technique that we will carry out.  

b) from the philosophical point of view, they represent different attitudes and skills according to the level of training  

 1. In Meditation, the arms act as shields becoming our first barrier in front of an aggression.    

 2. In Attention, we indicate that we complete the physical stage of our training (external circle when closing the hands and to hit the sides) and that conficence fully in the acquired skills.    

 3. In Praying, we are saying that we are working in internal areas, those that govern  
 our emotions and feelings. It is the internal control.   

4. From Attention with the hands in pushdown, the hands are in front of one of the main energy centers, with that which we are indicating that now we are working in to dominate and to use our interior energy (ki)  to the moment of the action.   

Hector


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## rmcrobertson (Jan 13, 2004)

One other possibility is that the forms, up through and including Short 3 and Long 3, start from a meditating horse because that's the old-fashioned Hawaii fighting stance.


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## hector (Jan 13, 2004)

Hi Robert:  
It is a good possibility to consider historical reasons. I thank your interest.  

Mr. Parker's first book, The law of the Fist, he showed many of the techniques from a Horse Meditation.  There are other old books of karate of the years 50-60 that they present this idea like a form of noticing to the opponent that we are trained in a martial art (karate).    
     On the other hand the Naihanchi Katas marked a time of gold inside the Japanese line that extended for Hawaii and many traditional Chinese forms begin in horse stance (book Set, tiger and crane, for example).   

Greetings to all in the study,especially to Juan, Cliff and Williams.  

Hector


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## kevin kilroe (Jan 19, 2004)

Forms 1 and 2 represent high point of origin. Forms 3 and 4 are low point of origin. Form 5 is the surprise attack form or go from where you are at. Form 6 reverses and condenses the circle when closing the salute. One goes outward, one goes inward. Form five is also called the hand accent form. Notice how the hands come into play when using marraige to gravity and counter-balancing (or standard-oppose).

Full Salute

Kevin Kilroe


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