# Weapons: Belt and pepper spray



## Ram (Nov 28, 2006)

I am going to be heading cross country and where I am traveling to has a high crime rate and a lot of laws about knife carry(also I can't find my non-butterfly knife and am pretty broke at the moment so I can not buy a new one). 
 So after assessing my options I figure I should use my pepper spray and a good leather belt. I think my best bet for defense to practice for is a situation where I spray the pepper spray and whip the non metal end of the belt to gain escape distance. Anyone have any other combo ideas?


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## Grenadier (Nov 28, 2006)

Where are you going?  

In most localities, you can lawfully carry a lockback knife that has a blade length of under 3 inches.  This is why I recommend a Spyderco Delica (excellent folder) to people looking for such protective methods.  I would think that it's going to be more effective than any pepper spray or belt.


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## bushidomartialarts (Nov 28, 2006)

use the metal end of the belt.  if the situation has deteriorated that far, you'll need that advantage.  the leather end hurts.  the metal bit slashes.

grenadier's right about spyderco knives.  if you're going to carry, that's the brand.  but a belt and pepper spray will give you range and distance a 3" folder won't.


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## ArmorOfGod (Nov 28, 2006)

I don't want to move the topic off of belts and pepper spray, but you could carry a walking stick/cane.  Also, you may consider carrying a "decoy wallet."  If you don't feel you have a fighting chance against an attacker and you think they just want a wallet, give them a fake one full of $15, some fake pictures, and a few of those fake credit cards you get in the mail all of the time.

But, back to your topic, pepper spray is a great thing to carry.  You can get some stuff with a ten foot range.  That should be all you need in theory.

AoG


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## searcher (Nov 28, 2006)

Be sure to practice with the spray.   I have seen to many gas themselves while using it.


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## wesley (Nov 28, 2006)

searchers right.

you have to find the right one. and know how to use it. some of them are really hard to use correctly, and if you cant use it correctly why carry it?

most of the good ones come with a practice charge full of water that works very well.


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## zDom (Nov 29, 2006)

I second the advice for a cane.

Not illegal, and gives you a nice range advantage. 

A staff would be even better, but then you end up looking like a Lord of the Rings fan  If you go this route, might as well grow the beard and get a worn-out pointy hat


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## morph4me (Nov 29, 2006)

zDom said:


> I second the advice for a cane.
> 
> Not illegal, and gives you a nice range advantage.
> 
> A staff would be even better, but then you end up looking like a Lord of the Rings fan  If you go this route, might as well grow the beard and get a worn-out pointy hat


 
I always carry my cane when I travel, they even let me take it on airplanes, and I'm a big fan of anything that gives me a range advantage.  I agree with bushidomartialarts, if you're going to use a belt, use the metal end.


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## Drac (Nov 29, 2006)

ArmorOfGod said:


> I don't want to move the topic off of belts and pepper spray, but you could carry a walking stick/cane. Also, you may consider carrying a "decoy wallet." If you don't feel you have a fighting chance against an attacker and you think they just want a wallet, give them a fake one full of $15, some fake pictures, and a few of those fake credit cards you get in the mail all of the time.
> 
> But, back to your topic, pepper spray is a great thing to carry. You can get some stuff with a ten foot range. That should be all you need in theory.
> 
> AoG


 


morph4me said:


> I always carry my cane when I travel, they even let me take it on airplanes


 
I also carry my cane everywhere.It may also give the impression to an attacker that you are handicapped and unable to defend yourself, something that will work to your advantage....Check out the CaneMasters website..Great cane and instructional dvd's...


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## morph4me (Nov 29, 2006)

Drac said:


> I also carry my cane everywhere.It may also give the impression to an attacker that you are handicapped and unable to defend yourself, something that will work to your advantage....Check out the CaneMasters website..Great cane and instructional dvd's...


 
That's where I got mine:ultracool. Something strange also happens when you carry a cane, people assume you can't stand and  have a reason to be put at the front of lines, I've been pulled out of lines by security for what I though was a random check, and taken to the front of the line:shrug:, nobody asked me if I needed it.


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## Ram (Nov 29, 2006)

> Where are you going?


 
California



> I don't want to move the topic off of belts and pepper spray, but you could carry a walking stick/cane. Also, you may consider carrying a "decoy wallet." If you don't feel you have a fighting chance against an attacker and you think they just want a wallet, give them a fake one full of $15, some fake pictures, and a few of those fake credit cards you get in the mail all of the time.


 
 I lke the decoy wallet idea and am going to try it out. I feel like I will have no problem in a fist fight I have done muay thai and mma training. I mostly though am worried about defense against weapon attacks.

I like the cane ideas an actually have a umbrella with a 3 and 1/2 inch long metal point on top that I might take along.The only problem is that it would be odd to carry a umbrella out if it is not raining. Also the umbrella was a freebie and is rainbow colored:uhyeah:


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## Ram (Nov 29, 2006)

Also if you swing with the belt buckle what is the best way to keep the movement flowing and snap it if a quick defense is needed?


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## Ram (Nov 29, 2006)

When I learned belt uses back in SKK. I was taught to use it for snapping chokes and neck breaks. They never covered what to do if one end of the belt was weighted. We always used our karate belts to practice with and they have no metal.


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## Drac (Nov 29, 2006)

morph4me said:


> That's where I got mine:ultracool.


 
Good stuff..Ever attend some GM Shuey's seminars?? More good stuf//




			
				morph4me said:
			
		

> Something strange also happens when you carry a cane, people assume you can't stand and have a reason to be put at the front of lines, I've been pulled out of lines by security for what I though was a random check, and taken to the front of the line:shrug:, nobody asked me if I needed it.


 
You're lucky, thats never happened to me..They check the cane and x-ray it and ask me why I need it and I answer for "balance"..


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## Brian King (Nov 29, 2006)

Ram, if you have learned to use the non-weighted end of the belt then by all means do so, it can be as effective as using the weighted end, just in a different way. LOL make sure your pants fit well enough that if you do remove your belt they stay up, much harder to escape with your pants around your ankles. If your pants are loose you can take a bit of string and loop it between a couple of belt loops to tighten the waist then wear your belt with the confidence that you can remove it easily and safely.

The carrying and use of a cane is also a good idea with the caveat that it may make you look weaker and attractive as a target. The caveat also holds for your rainbow umbrella as it may attract unwanted and hostile attention.

Your umbrella can also be used as a weapon, but if it is not real sturdy I would not suggest using it for stabbing and pushing but might consider opening it between yourself and the attacker and using it as a vision block/shield and attacking the attackers legs from below radar. You can also open it and use it as a vision block if you wish to do some work with the attacker(s) but want some ummm privacy, so that others do not see what is happening.

A cell phone besides calling for help (and leaving a voice record of the attack) can also make a good fist load.

One old Soviet idea is to take your jacket and tie a sleeve shut and then weight it. By swinging by the other sleeve you have a nice weapon that can cover four or five feet and looks innocent while being carried over you arm. It can be weighted with anything from rocks to a can of beer/soda to handful of nuts and bolts. Just be able to articulate why you are carrying the item(s) that way.

Another item I have carried in the past is a bandana. Weight one corner and it can be used as a very fast and effective whip/sap. It does not take much weight and the weight helps keep it from falling out of your pocket.

One use of your pepper spray that many do not think of is to leave a cloud behind you as you run away for those that are chasing you to enjoy.

Besides making sure your pants fit, make sure your shoes fit and are well made. I cannot count the number of fights I have seen with shoes falling off (which can make an effective missile for distraction if practiced) Make sure that you can run in whatever clothing that you decide to wear. And of course even more important than what weapons you carry is to stay aware of your surroundings and to listen to gut feelings and to have enough pride to leave if you sense danger even if you are armed and dangerous. Since you will be in unfamiliar territory I would also suggest that you stay away from drugs and alcohol.

Have a good trip
Brian


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## jks9199 (Nov 29, 2006)

There's  one thing you should carry that nobody's mentioned...

A cell phone.  In the US, any cell phone (even without a regular carrier) can be used to dial 911, if it can get a signal.  But "pay as you go" phones are available, and inexpensive.  Not only can you use it to call for police or EMS -- you can use it to say "HELP! I'm lost!" and get directions out of wherever you happen to be.

One other thing... Make sure the pepper spray canister you use is easy to tell which way it's pointing.  (I've seen too many of the damn keychain crap that there's no way to tell if you're spraying the other guy or yourself without stopping and looking at it.)


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## arnisador (Nov 29, 2006)

The cane can also be useful against dogs and the like, which are at the least a nuisance. If you're not comfortable grappling over control of the cane, though, I wouldn't want to rely on it.

Definitely whip the metal end of the belt. Consider also a pocket stick or belt-buckle push dagger.


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## morph4me (Nov 29, 2006)

Drac said:


> Good stuff..Ever attend some GM Shuey's seminars?? More good stuf//
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Never had the opportunity to attend his seminars, but I do have some of his training tapes, and my students :EG:

They x-ray it, but I've never been asked why I need it, I'd tell them, I've had 2 knee surgeries, am susceptible to attacks of gout, and have a bad back, I'd just neglect to mention when or how long since they've bothered me.


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## Drac (Nov 29, 2006)

arnisador said:


> Definitely whip the metal end of the belt. Consider also a pocket stick or belt-buckle push dagger.


 
The Kubotan is an excellent little surprize, however at Cleveland Hopkins Airport there is a large display case of items that cannot go on board the aircraft and the Kubotan is in there along with the belt-buckle dagger..Whipping the metal end of the belt is an EXCELLENT defensive surprize..


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## Drac (Nov 29, 2006)

morph4me said:


> They x-ray it, but I've never been asked why I need it, I'd tell them, I've had 2 knee surgeries, am susceptible to attacks of gout, and have a bad back, I'd just neglect to mention when or how long since they've bothered me.


 
I guess it depends on your departing airport..Denver CO asked but Hopkins didn't...


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## KenpoTex (Nov 29, 2006)

Personally, I'd go to wal-mart or a hardware-store and spend $20 or $30 bucks for a decent knife.  It may not be "ideal" but it will work.  

OC sprays have their place but I wouldn't trust them to stop a committed attack (I've been sprayed, and yes, it sucks, but it's not an instant stop by any means).

I'm personally kind of skeptical as to the effectiveness of a belt.  First you have to deploy it which is going to take a couple of seconds  (more if you carry anything on your belt (flashlight, cell-phone, PDA, whatever).  In that amount of time, the guy's already going to be on you.

If you don't have a the money for the knife, I'd buy a Mini-Mag-Light $10 in most places.  These make a great Kubaton/Fistload and are actually legal to keep with you on the plane or in other "no-weapon" areas (unlike your OC spray or purpose-designed impact weapons).


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## Drac (Nov 30, 2006)

kenpotex said:


> OC sprays have their place but I wouldn't trust them to stop a committed attack (I've been sprayed, and yes, it sucks, but it's not an instant stop by any means)


 
Kenpotex is correct..There is ALWAYS a fallout that contaminates the sprayer as well, and there are some people who it just doesn't affect at all.




			
				kenpotex said:
			
		

> If you don't have themoney for the knife, I'd buy a Mini-Mag-Light $10 in most places. These make a great Kubaton/Fistload and are actually legal to keep with you on the plane or in other "no-weapon" areas (unlike your OC spray or purpose-designed impact weapons).


 
An excellent idea too....


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## Blindside (Nov 30, 2006)

Drac said:


> I also carry my cane everywhere.It may also give the impression to an attacker that you are handicapped and unable to defend yourself, something that will work to your advantage....


 
While it may work to your advantage once the fight occurs, the flip side of this reasoning is that it sets you up as a target BECAUSE you look helpless and unable to defend yourself.  Predators go after the weak.

Lamont


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## searcher (Nov 30, 2006)

A roll of quarters.   I know it is not a weapon per se, but with it in your hand it makes the fist tighten.   A tight fist is like swinging a hammer, not to mention that the weight it adds increases impact and minimally slows you down.   Use a roll of dimes if your hand is small.

BTW- nobody ever thinks of you as carrying a weapon if you have a roll of change.   And you can carry it anywhere.


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## still learning (Nov 30, 2006)

Hello, Always trust your instincts...if it does not feel right?  turn and go back.

Awareness at all times, be observant,  don't make yourself an easy tarket..walk talk,head up..know about Verbal Judo....always be humble...

...as far as for weapons....anything around can be made or use as a weapons.  Also running around a fire hydrant or cars will make distance work. 

You see a bunch of guys doing nothing....walk the long way around.  At nights a bright flashlight (small OK -blind them for a few seconds -EYES)..sure fire?  .........Aloha


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## BJJMichigan (Dec 1, 2006)

A suggestion I am going to reccommend for your cross country hike (not sure if you're going by plane or foot) is going and buying a $2 Gym Lock and a Iron Chain to go with that. If you took that Gym Lock and Locked it on one end of the chain, WOW! That's a serious distance whip. It might even be acceptable on an airplane if you have the Gym Lock around the chain in the traditional manner (ie linking the chain closed). You could even use the traditional manner as like a "rapper" and wear it around your neck 

my 2 cents!


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## Flying Crane (Dec 1, 2006)

Ram said:


> California


 
Whereabouts in California?

I've lived in San Francisco for the past 12 years, in a couple of fairly gritty neighborhoods and haven't felt the need to be armed.  It's your choice, of course, but you might consider the option that you just don't need to carry a weapon...


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## Drac (Dec 1, 2006)

Blindside said:


> While it may work to your advantage once the fight occurs, the flip side of this reasoning is that it sets you up as a target BECAUSE you look helpless and unable to defend yourself. Predators go after the weak.
> 
> Lamont


 
Very true...Pity the fool who decides we are weak and attacks...


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## Ram (Dec 1, 2006)

> I've lived in San Francisco for the past 12 years, in a couple of fairly gritty neighborhoods and haven't felt the need to be armed. It's your choice, of course, but you might consider the option that you just don't need to carry a weapon...


 
San Francisco, Stockton and Sacramento. Always be prepared, just because it has not happened to you dose not mean it might not happen to me or yourself. You have to be alert and ready at all times.





> Hello, Always trust your instincts...if it does not feel right? turn and go back.
> 
> Awareness at all times, be observant, don't make yourself an easy tarket..walk talk,head up..know about Verbal Judo....always be humble...
> 
> ...


 
I was not looking for this type of advice but it is really good and dose more than a weapon can.


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