# book recommendations!?



## CiNcO dOsE (Nov 16, 2003)

does anybody have any fma book recommendations?!  for a beginner whos never trained in fma before!?

ive read really good reviews about "modern arnis by the late remy presas" and i am thinking of getting it.

does anyone have any thoughts/comments about "the secrets of kalis ilustrisimo by antonio diego and christopher ricketts"?!

hoping to hear from you guys soon. 


salamat.


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## dearnis.com (Nov 16, 2003)

Are you looking for technique books or history books?
The Kali Illustrisimo book is OK as technique books go; it would likely be of great benefit if you studied tha tart under supervison.  I have had all of about 4 hours exposure; just enough to know that the art has a lot of nuance not conveyed by the book (not a criticism; just the fact that you cant learn from a book)>
I think Professors books are essential for students of Modern Arnis (and the FMA in general).
Donn Draeger's "Fighting arts of Indonsesia" is the original history book on SE Asian martial arts; FMA are secondary, but the book is a must have.
So is Dan Inosanto's Filipino Martial Arts, if you can find it.
More recently, Mark Wiley has published numerous books on various FMA topics.

Disclaimer: all these are worth reading; are are written from particular perspectives.  If you take one as gospel and quote it in the wrong circles you will get a first-hand dose of FMA politics.
 

Word is Bram Frank is finalizing his history of Modern Arnis; Maybe Dan Anderson can comment on this as he is a pre-press reader.

And on technical books Danny has a few of his own, either in electronic or print format.


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## lhommedieu (Nov 16, 2003)

You could start with two of Mark Wiley's books:

Filipino Martial Culture
Filipino Fighting Arts

Yes, I'm aware that Wiley's books are contraversial in some circles.  I've never met Wiley, and do not consider myself an expert in the history and culture of Filipino martial arts.  For my thoughts (and as a way of generating some conversation about the matter) here is a post from the Dog Brothers Public Forum (now archived) from a few years ago.  Someone wrote Wiley had claimed that Filipino martial arts were superior to Western martial arts (i.e., Western sword arts); I argued as follows:



> Re. Clements' article:
> 
> The following link has a quotation from a section of Mark Wiley's first book, Filipino Martial Arts: [sic. _ Filipino Martial Culture_]
> 
> ...



Best,

Steve Lamade


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## lhommedieu (Nov 16, 2003)

Re. Dan Anderson's Ebooks:

I've got two, and enjoyed them very much.  Recommended.

Best,

Steve Lamade


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## dearnis.com (Nov 16, 2003)

Like I said....
As to Mark Wiley; I know him, I have been on the mat with, and I have enjoyed drinking beer with him.  I didn't know him 15 years ago, so I can only go by what I have seen of him in  the 3 or 4.  I like the man.
As to his books; are they perfect; no.  What they are is the first serious attempt by a credentialed scholar and practitioner to document the FMAs.  Some of his works are very academic  (Filipino Martial Culture); some less so.  Regarless, until someone else takes up the taks of gpoing beyond simple technique and overview books, Wiley's writings are what we have.  And for someone breaking new ground I think he does just fine) (Do I agree with everything he says/writes...no, but that has nothing to do w/ the value of the books.)
Chad


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## CiNcO dOsE (Nov 17, 2003)

well actually im looking for technique books.  since there are no dojos which offers fma here (windsor, ontario, canada; well one used to but the instructor is taking a break right now), and my other choice is to cross the border to detroit to go to paul's and or rich's dojos.  since i dont have a car thats a big problem as well.  so im just gonna have to settle with books for now.  enough of my sad stories.

i understand that the best way to learn is under proper instructions and you cant learn everyhitng from the book, but i guess books should start me up in my situation.

dan inosantos book is currently out of print, lots of his books are out of print actually.  and dan andersons ebooks, where can i find them?!

so right now im eyeing 3 books:
1)the secrets of kalis ilustrisimo by antonio diego and chris ricketts
2)complete sinawali by rey galang
3) and modern arnis by remy presas


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## Black Grass (Nov 17, 2003)

> _Originally posted by d. dela vega _
> *well actually im looking for technique books.  since there are no dojos which offers fma here (windsor, ontario, canada; well one used to but the instructor is taking a break right now), and my other choice is to cross the border to detroit to go to paul's and or rich's dojos.  since i dont have a car thats a big problem as well.  so im just gonna have to settle with books for now.  enough of my sad stories.
> 
> i understand that the best way to learn is under proper instructions and you cant learn everyhitng from the book, but i guess books should start me up in my situation.
> ...



In this case I would recommend you also get the a part Kali Ilustrisimo tape series by Master Ricketts. It contains a lot of the techniques in the Kalis Ilustrisimo book and some stuff from Complete Sinawali.

However, as dearnis said the Ilustriusimo  system is very subtle and although the techiniques are very simple when you look at them. Deploying them is a different story.

Vince
aka Black Grass


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## dearnis.com (Nov 17, 2003)

I'm going to add that your money might be better invested in video/dvd than books.  See who you can train with once in a while (seminar, once in a while lesson/whatever) and purchase the appropriate support material.
And most importantly find a good training partner!
Best of luck to you!
Chad


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## grimfang (Nov 17, 2003)

i do not want to stray from the subject, but feel i must say the following:

While Mr. Wiley provides some great material in his books, there are several instances where he done little or no research on a subject, resulting in false information. Futhermore, Mr. Wiley has refused to accept further information on particular subjects, choosing instead to rely on a single unsubstanciated source for certain information.
According to Mr. Wiley, my school, my instructors, and my entire system never existed... despite our contined efforts to enlighten him.

I will not reccommend that anyone NOT read the book.. i simply suggest that multiple sources be read whenever possible, allowing for cross-checking of information.


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## lhommedieu (Nov 17, 2003)

One other notable lapse in Filipino Fighting Arts:

No mention of Pekiti Tirsia Arnis.

Grimfang -

Thanks again for the image for my brochure - the design's completed.  As my wife and I may be moving in the near future (she may be changing graduate schools) we'll probably hold off on the printing until we're sure where we're going to live.  If your server can handle a large download, I'd be happy to send you a copy of the finished design.

Best,

Steve Lamade


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## Dan Anderson (Nov 17, 2003)

> _Originally posted by d. dela vega _
> *and dan andersons ebooks, where can i find them?!
> 
> *



You can find them at www.danandersonkarate.com

Yours,
Dan Anderson


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## Black Grass (Nov 18, 2003)

Grimfang,

From your profile I beleive you practice Sikaran and from your comment I gather not from Geronimo. Not including a style (i.e. your method of Sikaran) in his book does not mean that he suggests that its not really or true Sikaran. Has Wiley ever verbally or in print suggested that there is only one Sikaran? 

More on the topic of sikaran. I have found it curious that Geronimo and his students claim he is the only true GM of Sikaran, I would think that there would be several GM or masters of Sikaran if this art has been practiced for so long. Unless as Geromino suggests he was the last Hari is true.

lhommedieu,

I was also curious as to why Pekiti Tirsia is not any of Wiley's books. Do you know if Leo Gaje or Bill Mcgrath were approached or did they turn Wiley down? Can anyone shed some ligh on this.

One of the reason I suspect that Dekiti Tirsia is mentioned is that Nene Tortal is friends with my instructor Christopher Ricketts. I believe that alot of the contacts that Wiley made in the Philippines were through Ricketts and Bakbakan.

Vince
aka Black Grass


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## tshadowchaser (Nov 18, 2003)

Black Grass 

Mr Wiley's  books in the way he writes them  tend to lead people to belive things that many not be the whole truth,a good exampleis his comments on Sikaran.  I have written on sikaran in this foum in the Filipino arts section a few times. I have also made comments on Mr Wiley and some of his mistakes befor. I belive both can most likely be found with in the search engin.
 Mr. Wiley wites well and has tried to give us information that may not have been available to us any other way. It is just a shame he did not question a little more some of the claims that where presented to him.
As for Mr. geronimo I have stated befor he was studying a japanese art and heading the "all Fillipino karate union ' Or some such name in 1966 and the head of my system had been teaching Sikaran in this country sence the early 50"s.  I have talked and written to many of Geronimo's students and they have never been given much information on his background. They write to me for information or they refute anyone not under his banner. He has taught a system of sikaran with heavy tkd influence. and I accept that he has done well to try to keep the Sikaran name alive.
Sorry for going off topic folks.  
Now do I read his books  YEP do I belive all I read NO
If you want techniques buy vidieo's and watch how people actualy move


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## K Williams (Nov 19, 2003)

http://www.cfw2.com/dept.asp?s=cfw&dept_id=260

http://www.cfw2.com/dept.asp?s=cfw&dept_id=275

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...f=sr_1_1/103-5112996-7937459?v=glance&s=books


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## CiNcO dOsE (Nov 20, 2003)

does anybody know who this person is?!  i was just wondering.


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## lhommedieu (Nov 20, 2003)

I could be mistaken, but I thought that I read somewhere that Yuli Romo was the model for the jacket cover.

Best,

Steve Lamade


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## Black Grass (Nov 20, 2003)

It is Yuli Romo on the cover

Vince
aka Black Grass


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## Tapps (Nov 20, 2003)

> I'm going to add that your money might be better invested in video/dvd than books. See who you can train with once in a while (seminar, once in a while lesson/whatever) and purchase the appropriate support material.




Gotta agree.

If you are looking for a book, form my money the best beginner introduction is:

             Modern Arnis by Remy Presas
            (generally refered to as the"Yellow book"


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## Tapps (Nov 20, 2003)

OOOOH

That got me a green belt !

Boooyahhh !!!!!


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## CiNcO dOsE (Nov 21, 2003)

hahahha
i got my yellow belt too and i didnt even notice it, although i have been waiting for it to change hahah.  ive been promoted yeah yeah.
wuuuuu huuuuuu


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## CiNcO dOsE (Nov 21, 2003)

to forumites in pinas:

i know pirated cds are big in pinas and i was wondering if there are pirated cds of any of those instructional videos such as the kalis ilustrisimo series by chirstopher ricketts??!  or any others?!?  and if so, would they be hard to find, since they dont fall in to the "new movies" category?!

salamat.


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## grimfang (Nov 21, 2003)

huh? pirated cd's? i never knew such a thing existed... i am shocked... i do not thing anyone here has ever dreamed of making an illegal copy of a tape....  we always read the FBI Copywrite warning VERY carefully each time we view a recording...
 

and.. hypothetically speaking... if somebody did have an illegal copy of a tape, i am sure they are wise enough to contact you PRIVATELY regarding the matter, rather than posting the message across an open channel like this 
:hammer:


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## CiNcO dOsE (Nov 23, 2003)

grimfang:

youd be surprise on what you can find in the phillipines, not jsut there but in southeast asia in general.  the newest movies, games, music cds, and whatever copyright laws are placed in the beginning, middle or end, people still make copies of them and sold at a really cheap price.  they would even inlcude those copyright laws in the copies, and you can still view them every time you watch your copies.

i was just wondering if forumites from the philippines have encountered such instructional videos/cds in the market.


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