# Eagle Claw and White Tiger



## Tames D (Nov 4, 2007)

I'd like to get a discussion started on these two Kung Fu systems. I believe Eagle Claw is a Northern System and White Tiger is a Southern System. Aside from this can anyone elaborate on the differences? Their histories,strengths and weaknesses, etc.


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## Xue Sheng (Nov 5, 2007)

I have never heard of White Tiger Kung Fu but then again there are a lot of CMA styles I have never heard of, to many to know them all. I do know about Black Tiger. And from what I have read (just now) White tiger is also a Southern Style.

The best I can do is post this

Black Tiger (Hei Hu Quan)
http://www.answers.com/topic/black-tiger-kung-fu

Eagle Claw (Yingzhaoquan)
http://www.answers.com/topic/eagle-claw

A website that says they teach White Tiger Kung fu

White tiger Kung fu (Bak Fu Pai) 
http://www.tigerkungfu.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=43&Itemid=61


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## newtothe dark (Nov 5, 2007)

No an endorsement but http://www.whitetigerkungfu.com/


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## Tames D (Nov 5, 2007)

I will check these sites out, thanks.


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## Steel Tiger (Nov 6, 2007)

I don't know anything about White Tiger but I do teach qinna from the Eagle claw school and the Tiger school.

I do know that Eagle Claw is a point attacking system that includes qinna and dim mak techniques.  It appears to have originated in Hebei Province, but this is not clear, it may have come from Shaolin.  Eagle Claw  seems to have been developed in the 13th century.

He is something from Wiki about training:



> How the Eagle Claw system is taught varies between each teachers skill and experiences. What is consistent of an Eagle Claw Master is their knowledge of the 3 core sets of the style.
> *Xin Quan &#34892;&#25331;(Hahng Kuen*) is known as the Walking Fist. This set consists of 10-12 Rows of technqiues representative of the founding elements of the style. (Shaolin Quan, Fanzi Quan and Yue Shi San Shou).
> *Lian Quan &#36899;&#25331;(Lin Kuen)* is known as the Linking Fist. A very important set in that it not only provides the exponent with an encyclopedic base of various Seizing, Grappling and Joint Locks but a set that incoporates various Qi Gong Skills as well.
> *Yue Shi San Shou aka Y&#299; B&#462;i Ling B&#257; Qín Ná &#19968;&#30334;&#38646;&#20843;&#25810;&#25343;(Yat Ling Bat Kahm Na) 108 Seize Grab aka 108 Locking Hands* is considered the "Heart" of the Eagle Claw System. Believed to be the material passed down by the legendary Yue Fei of China's Song Dynasty. This material is 108 different categories of skills/techniques that are trained to a level of pefection with partners.
> Missing any of the 3 core sets will severely hinder a students hope of mastering this style.


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## Tames D (Nov 6, 2007)

Interesting.


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## Tames D (Nov 6, 2007)

I think I'm going to look for an Eagle Claw school and check it out. Seems very interesting to me.


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## seasoned (Nov 14, 2007)

I am sorry if I am moveing off thread. I study Okinawan GoJu. It is influenced by Southern Chinese martial arts and I feel it is very beneficial because of it's close in fighting techniques.


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## Steel Tiger (Nov 14, 2007)

Just been checking out the forms demos at the site newtothedark posted.  What I saw was a classic example of why people are so disparaging of CMAs.  It was a triumph of speed over power and precision.  In all the forms I viewed, except two, GM Doo Wai was belting along at 200 mph and as a result his claw and fist shape suffered.  I watched eight forms and five were essentially the same (don't attack these guys from the sides, you'll be in trouble, walk straight up to them you should be alright).

It is clearly Tiger but I just don't know.  What I know of Tiger Claw and Black Tiger, and my own form from Sichaun (it has strong Indian influences), Tiger surrenders speed for power.  Dragon and Leopard are the animal styles best known for speed.


As to seasoned's reference to Goju.  Its major Chinese influence was Fujian White Crane but there is also Tiger Claw influence.  White Tiger appears to be about 400 years old at the oldest (could be BS of course), and as Goju was developed in the second half of the nineteenth century it is possible that the Tiger influences could come from White Tiger.  I think, however, that they come from Hung Gar or Shaolin Tiger Claw.


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## seasoned (Nov 14, 2007)

Steel Tiger said:


> Just been checking out the forms demos at the site newtothedark posted. What I saw was a classic example of why people are so disparaging of CMAs. It was a triumph of speed over power and precision. In all the forms I viewed, except two, GM Doo Wai was belting along at 200 mph and as a result his claw and fist shape suffered. I watched eight forms and five were essentially the same (don't attack these guys from the sides, you'll be in trouble, walk straight up to them you should be alright).
> 
> It is clearly Tiger but I just don't know. What I know of Tiger Claw and Black Tiger, and my own form from Sichaun (it has strong Indian influences), Tiger surrenders speed for power. Dragon and Leopard are the animal styles best known for speed.
> As to seasoned's reference to Goju. Its major Chinese influence was Fujian White Crane but there is also Tiger Claw influence. White Tiger appears to be about 400 years old at the oldest (could be BS of course), and as Goju was developed in the second half of the nineteenth century it is possible that the Tiger influences could come from White Tiger. I think, however, that they come from Hung Gar or Shaolin Tiger Claw.


 
Our gi patch has a white crane and a tiger on it.


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## Steel Tiger (Nov 14, 2007)

QUI-GON said:


> I think I'm going to look for an Eagle Claw school and check it out. Seems very interesting to me.


 
I'm a big fan of Eagle Claw.  Its joint locking techniques are superb.  there is also excellent muscle-grasping qinna in the system.  Very painful stuff.





seasoned said:


> Our gi patch has a white crane and a tiger on it.


 
There you go then.   The influences should be obvious in the some of the older kata as well.


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## newtothe dark (Nov 15, 2007)

Its wild GM Doo Wai is known for his Iron palm not his claw. I have seen clips of him shattering coconuts and such. Just did some more searching after I posted link. I agree with the speed thing I have noticed that many think speed is always the mark of greatness. I had a teacher who was old and feeble looking and moved with what appeared to be no speed, he just always seemed to just be in the right place with little to no effort. I was very impressed with him he studied N. Shaolin and some family style of Black Tiger he could crush Brazil nuts with his pinching hands yet there was no scaring. He was a great man.
Sorry for the flash back hehe


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## clfsean (Nov 15, 2007)

QUI-GON said:


> I think I'm going to look for an Eagle Claw school and check it out. Seems very interesting to me.



If you're in SoCal... look up Sifu Kenny Edwards.

He's some where in the LA Basin area (I know... big help there... sorry!), but the only one I know in SoCal.


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## Tames D (Nov 15, 2007)

newtothe dark said:


> Its wild GM Doo Wai is known for his Iron palm not his claw. I have seen clips of him shattering coconuts and such. Just did some more searching after I posted link. I agree with the speed thing I have noticed that many think speed is always the mark of greatness. I had a teacher who was old and feeble looking and moved with what appeared to be no speed, he just always seemed to just be in the right place with little to no effort. I was very impressed with him he studied N. Shaolin and some family style of Black Tiger he could crush Brazil nuts with his pinching hands yet there was no scaring. He was a great man.
> Sorry for the flash back hehe


 
Don't apoligize. I enjoy hearing this kind of stuff.


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## Tames D (Nov 15, 2007)

clfsean said:


> If you're in SoCal... look up Sifu Kenny Edwards.
> 
> He's some where in the LA Basin area (I know... big help there... sorry!), but the only one I know in SoCal.


 
Will do. Thanks.


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## Steel Tiger (Nov 15, 2007)

newtothe dark said:


> Its wild GM Doo Wai is known for his Iron palm not his claw. I have seen clips of him shattering coconuts and such. Just did some more searching after I posted link. I agree with the speed thing I have noticed that many think speed is always the mark of greatness. I had a teacher who was old and feeble looking and moved with what appeared to be no speed, he just always seemed to just be in the right place with little to no effort. I was very impressed with him he studied N. Shaolin and some family style of Black Tiger he could crush Brazil nuts with his pinching hands yet there was no scaring. He was a great man.
> Sorry for the flash back hehe


 
If Iron Palm is really his thing I'd like to see him doing some of that.  I am intrigued by Iron Palm.

It sounds to me that your teacher knew exactly what was going on.  _Wu wei_, doing without *doing*.


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## Dr.Harout (Jan 11, 2008)

There are many Bak Fu Pai (White Tiger Kung Fu) clips uploaded on youtube and on veoh.


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## Taijiman (Jan 12, 2008)

Yes, the vids and forum (with many fraudulent posters) pretty much speak for themselves)


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