# Thoughts on push hands...and water



## Xue Sheng (Aug 2, 2019)

Thoughts on push hands...and water - Blog post


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## Sean Kovarovic (Aug 6, 2019)

Water can float a boat, or it can sink it.


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## Sean Kovarovic (Aug 6, 2019)

Xue Sheng said:


> Thoughts on push hands...and water - Blog post






Some very light sparring with these principles in mind


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## Xue Sheng (Aug 6, 2019)

This is roughly to goal. Look how tense these guys aren't.

 This is roughly my Yang taijiquan lineage. The first video is Tung Hu Ling, who learned from his father Tung Ying Chieh. My shifu was also a student of Tung Ying Chieh and a close friend of Tung Hu Ling
The second video is Tung Kai Ying, son of Tung Hu Ling. Tung Kai Ying learned form his grandfather and father


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## Sean Kovarovic (Aug 6, 2019)

Thank you for sharing. The first one is push hands drills which is preconceived forms. The 2nd is a demonstration against a non resisting opponent. All due respect... Please share some sparring with them being that relaxed and not getting tagged in The face.


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## Xue Sheng (Aug 6, 2019)

Actually Sean the first one is not a push hands drill or a pre conceived form and push hands, if you are talking traditional, and I am, is not exactly sparing, yet it is used in sparing if you are talking Taijiquan 

In your video you are doing exactly what I am talking about in my blog post as something I have noticed I have been doing, that I shouldn’t; Depending to much on strength, using arms to much and body unity not enough. And another thing I forgot; investing in loss. That is the only way to get better at traditional push hands in any style

Years ago when I use to do push hands with my Shifu all the time I was better. But injuries and lack of training got to where I am now

It should not matter resistant or nit “sung” is the goal. And that is why I posted the video of Tung Kai Ying

That is why I posted the videos


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## Sean Kovarovic (Aug 6, 2019)

Push Hands And sparring are 2 different things, like you stated. I understand sung is important. I do not believe sung to the level these masters display is efficient for combat. Sung means using the minimum amount of force to require a task, not be a floppy wet noodle.


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## Buka (Aug 7, 2019)

Miizu no Kokoro.


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## Xue Sheng (Aug 7, 2019)

Sean Kovarovic said:


> Push Hands And sparring are 2 different things, like you stated. I understand sung is important. I do not believe sung to the level these masters display is efficient for combat. Sung means using the minimum amount of force to require a task, not be a floppy wet noodle.



Sean, I will not argue with you, believe what you will, however the first one, Tung Hu Ling, opened a taiji school in Thailand in the 50s and there were challenges, and he did not lose. My shifu was there helping him open the school. I have also been on the receiving end of something very similar from my shifu and run into it with 3 other people as well over the years (1 Yang style, 1 Chen Style and 1 Dachengquan) And they are not floppy like a wet noodle, that would not be sung. if that is what you see, I do believe you are missing something.


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## Sean Kovarovic (Aug 7, 2019)

Xue Sheng said:


> Sean, I will not argue with you, believe what you will, however the first one, Tung Hu Ling, opened a taiji school in Thailand in the 50s and there were challenges, and he did not lose. My shifu was there helping him open the school. I have also been on the receiving end of something very similar from my shifu and run into it with 3 other people as well over the years (1 Yang style, 1 Chen Style and 1 Dachengquan) And they are not floppy like a wet noodle, that would not be sung. if that is what you see, I do believe you are missing something.


I can respect that. We don't have to agree on everything. I also do not want to argue. Some things are better understood through touch, and I feel you also may be misunderstanding what you see in my video above. But that's fine. We can agree to disagree until we meet. Hopefully my video I'm putting up in a few weeks will help you with your knee pain.


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## jobo (Aug 7, 2019)

Xue Sheng said:


> Thoughts on push hands...and water - Blog post


the water metaphor is silly, water offers significant restance,  try running through water, and it doesn't become the bottle or the cup, it takes on that shape as it's a fluid and that's what fluids tend to do, but so will sand and oil and cement, and thousand of other things, but one says be like wet cement


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