# African Americans?



## still learning (Feb 4, 2007)

Hello, Only because of the Super Bowl.....they brought it out..those Coaches are AFRICAN AMERCIANS....I never saw them that way...yes there were of black colors....but I saw them as a person

So does this mean?  Every black guy should be call an African Amercian?

We use to use to describe them as black or negros......Japanese as Asians, whites as whites,  (I am Asian - part Japanese,part Korean)a white man's  last name...I was adopted by a French/Irish Father from the USA

Now today I notice.....Amercians whites,British whites,Canadian whites,French whites,Germany whites, Swiss whites,Irish whites,

People use to be four colors,white...black..brown...yellow..skin tones

My flavoriate color is Green and Blue.....only in Kempo will you get to have Black and blues.

Do we have any Black Americans today or are they now known as AFRICAN AMERICANS?    I will miss the Black Americans from the USA.......Sad know? What we are becoming? .........

The nice thing about growing up in Hawaii is the muliple cutures here..but we do have races problems too....can you believe it the Hawaiian here are making it a big issue!  Not sure if they are American Hawaiians or local Hawaiian anymore?    

I suggest we make everyone one color--using DNA or  spray paints....Aloha


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## bushidomartialarts (Feb 5, 2007)

there's a comic from india named russel peters who says we all need to relax.  there's 1.25 billion chinese and a billion indians.  we're all gonna wind up beige in a hundred years or so.

honestly, i don't see what people get so worked up about.

of course, i'm norse-irish, middle class and lutheran.  they don't get much whiter than me.  i probably don't have much perspective on this.


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## fnorfurfoot (Feb 5, 2007)

Im so happy that I'm not alone in this.  Politically Correct terminology is getting out of control.  I have a black friend who told me something funny a few years ago.  He and some of his co-workers were sitting at a table eating lunch.  There were three black guys and one white.  The black guys were Americans.  The white guy was American as well but he was born in Africa.  He looked across the table and said "Do you guys realise that I'm the only true African-American at this table?"  

Like Bushidomartialarts, I'm white so I'm sure it sounds bad coming from me but my feelings are that if you are born in this country, your American.  You don't need a designation to come before it to describe who you are.  Your just American.  African-American, Asian-American, Native-American, it's crazy because if we all did that I would be a Greek, Swedish, Scotish, French, English-American.  That's a bit of a mouthful.  

The only people who should claim those titles are those who have dual citizenship.


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## donna (Feb 5, 2007)

I think we need a Space alien invasion (like Independence Day) to make us all realise we are all one(earthlings). Colour is only skin deep and we all bleed the same colour blood!!:jediduel:


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## Carol (Feb 5, 2007)

I don't think the comments of a sportscaster can speak for an entire race of people.

Personally, I hardly ever refer to anyone by their skin color.  There is largely no need to do so.


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## bushidomartialarts (Feb 5, 2007)

what i love is what you're describing a mutual acquaintance to people.

"which jeff?"

"you know...."

and people will do all kinds of acrobatics not to say "you know, jeff who's black."   they'll say "jeff in accounting", or "jeff who went to the concert with us two years ago", or "jeff who used to date mei-linn".

going out of your way to demonstrate sensitivity to race isn't any less racist than not being terribly sensitive to race.  it is, however, more dishonest.


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## Ceicei (Feb 5, 2007)

fnorfurfoot said:


> The only people who should claim those titles are those who have dual citizenship.



Hey, I can agree with that!  There aren't too many who hold dual citizenship in two countries.  If we are reduced to reserving the dual-country naming, then hopefully, the argument of how we are designated should die down (simply because there aren't too many).  Whoever lives in one country, call them just that (American, Canadian, Swedish, etc.), and nothing else.  I guess this is a pipe dream... Humans generally seem to have a compulsive need to classify everything!

- Ceicei


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## Brian R. VanCise (Feb 5, 2007)

Ceicei you are right on in that we have this need to classify things.  We also have a need to want to be special and to want our group to have a different name or classification.  You can see it everywhere on our planet!


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## tellner (Feb 5, 2007)

Wow. It's a Stephen Colbert "I see no color" moment. 

The simple fact is that race is important in America. And it's most important to those who claim they are colorblind. It's gotten better in the past few decades, but it's still a serious issue. If you look at just about any measure there is tremendous usually unstated prejudice and a whole bunch of baggage on the subject. We talk about "urban" or "gangs" or any number of code words these days. It comes down to the same thing. White people generally slightly mistrust and somewhat look down on Black people. Black people generally slightly mistrust and somewhat resent White people. 

Arrest rates. Conviction rates. Length of sentences. Percentage of adult males under the supervision of the corrections system. Wealth. Income when compared to education. Media portrayals. If you're honest you can guess who is worse off by any of these measures. Heck, take a look at movies. From _The Green  Mile_ on you still have the "Magical Negro". A Black man can not have a physical love scene in a movie if the backers want it to earn more than $20 million. It just won't happen. That lurking fear of the sexualized Black man is still out there.

I could go on but won't bore you.

Race still exists in America. It's still important. The ones who say it's not tend to almost all be White. Funny that.


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## mrhnau (Feb 5, 2007)

Carol Kaur said:


> I don't think the comments of a sportscaster can speak for an entire race of people.
> 
> Personally, I hardly ever refer to anyone by their skin color.  There is largely no need to do so.



At times it can be. We tend to use qualifiers when describing someone, particularly if in a group. We use height, hair color, eye color, gender. Why not skin color? Its not used in a negative way (normally).

I agree with most of the posts. Just call yourself an American. I have a very hard time calling anyone African-American. I don't know how long they have been here or if indeed they have immigrated from Africa unless I get to know them. I'd have an equally hard time calling anyone European-American, Asian-American, etc.. 



			
				fnorfurfoot said:
			
		

> Im so happy that I'm not alone in this. Politically Correct terminology is getting out of control. I have a black friend who told me something funny a few years ago. He and some of his co-workers were sitting at a table eating lunch. There were three black guys and one white. The black guys were Americans. The white guy was American as well but he was born in Africa. He looked across the table and said "Do you guys realise that I'm the only true African-American at this table?"


Thats just too funny, and correct LOL


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## Don Roley (Feb 5, 2007)

The problem I have with the term "African Americans" is how do you know

A- they are American

and

B- that their anscestors are any closer to Africa than anyone else?

Seriously, I live in Japan. I see more Africans than I see black Americans. I do not want to get into the habit of reffering to people based on their nationality when discussing things relating to race. The problems blacks face in Japan do not matter as to where they came from. They can be from Africa or their anscestors could have lived in Australia for thousands of years. The problems they face in terms of racial discrimination does not change either way.

At the other extreme, I think that anybody with American citizenship should be called simply American. If they are treated differently because of their skin color, I do not think that the rascist scum will differentiate based on whether they come from Africa or the South Pacific.


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## morph4me (Feb 5, 2007)

fnorfurfoot said:


> Im so happy that I'm not alone in this. Politically Correct terminology is getting out of control. I have a black friend who told me something funny a few years ago. He and some of his co-workers were sitting at a table eating lunch. There were three black guys and one white. The black guys were Americans. The white guy was American as well but he was born in Africa. He looked across the table and said "Do you guys realise that I'm the only true African-American at this table?"
> 
> Like Bushidomartialarts, I'm white so I'm sure it sounds bad coming from me but my feelings are that if you are born in this country, your American.


 
I have some very good friends from South Africa. They were born there and thier children were born there, and they happen to be caucasian. When they became American citizens, I half joked that if they wanted to, the wife could apply for a small business loan as an african american woman which would be accurate. I wonder what would have happened if they did it.


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## Tez3 (Feb 5, 2007)

We have white and blue people! They are called Chavs and the females have large legs which they show off wearing very short skirts which makes their legs go a very weird mottled blue colour! Chavs are a British thing though you are getting the king and queen of Chavs in the persons of Posh and Becks. 

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=chav&r=f


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## exile (Feb 5, 2007)

Tez3 said:


> We have white and blue people! They are called Chavs and the females have large legs which they show off wearing very short skirts which makes their legs go a very weird mottled blue colour! Chavs are a British thing though you are getting the king and queen of Chavs in the persons of Posh and Becks.
> 
> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=chav&r=f



I've read a bit about Chavs, Tez. I have to say, I'm still totally baffled by the phenomenon. The mutilated fashion sense alone is almost extraterrestrial... are you sure they're actually Earthlings??


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## Grenadier (Feb 5, 2007)

Blacks are black.  Plain and simple.  You really can't call all black people "African Americans," since there are quite a few black folks whose ancestry came from non-African areas.  

Whites are white.  Plain and simple.  Not all whites are of European descent, and as pointed out already, there are people who have emigrated from South Africa who are white, and whose children can legitimately be called "African Americans."


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## jkd friend (Feb 5, 2007)

I am an american and that is my color, my flag. There is no african in me but only american. That should not be the focus point because so many nations want to come here and when they do they don't represent america but put up the flag they were running from to here. THAT SHOULD BE THE REAL SUBJECT NOT The same old black people this black people that because the truth is real black people are american home grown.   AMERICA BABY YEAH!!~!!!!!~!!!!:asian::asian:


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## mrhnau (Feb 5, 2007)

jkd friend said:


> I am an american and that is my color, my flag. There is no african in me but only american. That should not be the focus point because so many nations want to come here and when they do they don't represent america but put up the flag they were running from to here. THAT SHOULD BE THE REAL SUBJECT NOT The same old black people this black people that because the truth is real black people are american home grown.   AMERICA BABY YEAH!!~!!!!!~!!!!:asian::asian:



Well said. I really don't care what your skin color is. I'm more proud of my country than the color of my skin...


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## Tez3 (Feb 5, 2007)

exile said:


> I've read a bit about Chavs, Tez. I have to say, I'm still totally baffled by the phenomenon. The mutilated fashion sense alone is almost extraterrestrial... are you sure they're actually Earthlings??


 
They are seriously strange! it goes back I think to the point someone made about classifying ourselves, they are very definitely a 'tribe' or clan even. They can also be all races and colours. We have a tradtion over here over joining groups like this which define themselves by what they wear. We've had Mod and Rockers, Teddy Boys, Punks, Skinheads, Goths, Yuppies, Sloanes etc. the look of them and the behavior of each of these groups is distinctive. I think over here, certainly the younger people would define themselves by these groupings rather than what colour they are.


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## Kembudo-Kai Kempoka (Feb 5, 2007)

I'm not prejudiced. I hate everybody, equally.

Get off my planet, 

Dave


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## exile (Feb 5, 2007)

Tez3 said:


> They are seriously strange! it goes back I think to the point someone made about classifying ourselves, they are very definitely a 'tribe' or clan even. They can also be all races and colours. We have a tradtion over here over joining groups like this which define themselves by what they wear. We've had Mod and Rockers, Teddy Boys, Punks, Skinheads, Goths, Yuppies, Sloanes etc. the look of them and the behavior of each of these groups is distinctive. I think over here, certainly the younger people would define themselves by these groupings rather than what colour they are.



Probably, on the whole, that's a better way to define social groupings... but the Chavs are very odd, as a group... I'm aware of a couple of virulantly anti-Chav web sites over your way as well. They take enormous delight in mocking the apparently total inarticulateness of Chavs, whose verbal abilities don't seem to be up to the level of their fashion sense ... It all seems like a very strange style of interaction that I was probably born half a century or so too early to get a grip on... but it certainly has its funny side!


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## Rich Parsons (Feb 5, 2007)

Once again I will quote: "TIME: Special report: America at 300 Million" - October 30, 2006.

In this edition there is an article that deals with the break down of the USA:

51% Female - 49% Male

80.1 % White
14.8 % Hispanic of any Race (* This means the numbers will not add up to 100% now  *)
12.8 % Black
4.4 % Asian
1.6 % Two or more races
1.0 % Natice American Indian and Alaska Native
0.2 % Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander. 

If you exclude the Hispanic numbers you get:

80.1 + 12.8 + 4.4 + 1.6 + 1.0 + 0.2 = 100.1 so obviously these numbers are rounded up. 

So this means all sports should represent this, all business should represent these numbers. Right it all has to be equal or there is some form of racism going on. Correct? (* Sorry for the sarcasm here. *)

The replacement value for children is considered 2.1

White: 1.85
Black:  2.02
Amer Ind: 1.71
Asian: 1.93
Hispanic: 2.82


So does this mean that we need to slow down the Hispanic Growth Rate and force the other cultures to increase their rate? NOTE: Not sure if Hawaiian and other Pacific is included in American Indian or not. They might have a real low rate, not sure. 

So do we control the population growth as well to insure the correct replacement of the existing populations? To me this would be absurd, but one never knows. 



So while I applaud the accomplishment of the two coaches as individuals, and also thsoe who played the game on both teams, I am not sure if the concentration on Race brought out an issue to the light or if it put up fences by saying more about the separation of people, instead of just saying we are AMERICANS. 

But I have been wrong lots of times in my life and will continue to be wrong through out my life.


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## Tez3 (Feb 5, 2007)

Looking from the outside on America we think of you as Americans (or Yanks tbh!), when we see tourists etc over here again you are still Americans! Obviously we are aware that you can be different colours lol but you are all more alike than different. Perhaps its the same when you look at us though we have divides here on country grounds that could leave you seriously bruised if you mistook one for another! A Scotsman would not thank you for being thought English nor would a Welshman!


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## Kembudo-Kai Kempoka (Feb 5, 2007)

Tez3 said:


> Looking from the outside on America we think of you as Americans (or Yanks tbh!), when we see tourists etc over here again you are still Americans! Obviously we are aware that you can be different colours lol but you are all more alike than different. Perhaps its the same when you look at us though we have divides here on country grounds that could leave you seriously bruised if you mistook one for another! *A Scotsman would not thank you for being thought English nor would a Welshman*!


 
Pouring wine in the Napa Valley, we get tourists from all over the globe. I make it a personal mission to find a way under the skin of each. With your countrymen, and this particular -ism, I just mentinon to them that, despite their differences, they "all smell alike".

Good for an occasional glass of wine on the work shirt. :angel:


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## matt.m (Feb 5, 2007)

I am color blind.  Figuratively not literally, look in combat I saw the word Marines on the nametape, not Jones the black guy or Vazquez the Mexican.  My father is also color blind.  He says I never knew a "John the black guy."  I knew John the guy.

To be quite frank I don't care much for people that speak of others by race, creed, color, etc.


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## elder999 (Feb 5, 2007)

Grenadier said:


> Blacks are black. Plain and simple. You really can't call all black people "African Americans," since there are quite a few black folks whose ancestry came from non-African areas.
> 
> Whites are white. Plain and simple. Not all whites are of European descent, and as pointed out already, there are people who have emigrated from South Africa who are white, and whose children can legitimately be called "African Americans."


 

Errr.....actually, there are _brown_ people, and _pink_ people...or maybe just a few different shades of brown......


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## JBrainard (Feb 5, 2007)

I was reading through this thread and I remembered an experience from college. I was in a writing class and somehow the whole political correctness issue came up. The interesting thing was that there were these three young Jamaican women who made the same point Grenadier did: NOT ALL BLACK PEOPLE ARE FROM AFRICA. They said that on some kind of document (a can't remember what kind, over 10 years ago) they had to check off their race. They couldn't choose "Black" or "Jamaican," only "African American." And you know what, they were pissed!
What's my point? I guess it's that in trying to be politically correct you can end up sounding like a bigot. Dumb, huh?


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## CoryKS (Feb 5, 2007)

My wife is black.  Don't try calling her African-American, she hates it.  I hate the term too, because it is imprecise and often incorrect.  Once you start using it as a synonym for black, you're just asking for trouble.  I seem to recall an Olympics announcer who referred to a black gymnast from France as an "African-American".  And I've heard an account, don't know if it's true, of a high school teacher who had a student turn in a report on "Othello, the African-American Moor of Spain".  :rofl:


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## Flatlander (Feb 5, 2007)

tellner said:


> A Black man can not have a physical love scene in a movie if the backers want it to earn more than $20 million. It just won't happen. That lurking fear of the sexualized Black man is still out there.


Actually, did you see Miami Vice?  Jamie Foxx has a love scene in that movie, and according to this source it grossed over $63M (though it still lost money - it was rather expensive to produce....)  At any rate, "It just won't happen" seems to be an unreasonable generalization.


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## crushing (Feb 5, 2007)

Rich,

Did the Time article specify how one's race was determined?  The 1.6% for 'Two or more races' seems very low to me.  Would Tony Dungy be considered 'Black' or 'Two or more races'?  Similarly, another timely figure, Sen. Obama?

While I don't know if Sen. Obama is 'Black', 'White', or 'Two or more races', I do think he would have a legitimate claim to being African-American (or maybe even Kenyan-Kansan).

Do you think the media, or society for that matter, is still stuck on the 'one drop' rule?


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## CTKempo Todd (Feb 5, 2007)

The only true classification is 1: Human Being

Then there is Male and Female..

That's it. Sorry nothing more. Referring to color is racist period. 
I don't care what color your skin is: You are a human being and you are either male or female..(ok wise guys I know...)
I know this is utopia and a bit simplistic but its the way it should be.

I hate any classification further than that.."BET" for example is SO offensive to me simply for what is stands for and in principal is exclusionary based upon skin color..


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## fnorfurfoot (Feb 5, 2007)

CTKempo Todd said:


> The only true classification is 1: Human Being


 
I agree.  If only the government would allow us to leave it at that.  But they always want to separate us into groups.


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## Kacey (Feb 5, 2007)

CoryKS said:


> My wife is black.  Don't try calling her African-American, she hates it.  I hate the term too, because it is imprecise and often incorrect.  Once you start using it as a synonym for black, you're just asking for trouble.  I seem to recall an Olympics announcer who referred to a black gymnast from France as an "African-American".  And I've heard an account, don't know if it's true, of a high school teacher who had a student turn in a report on "Othello, the African-American Moor of Spain".  :rofl:



One of my neighbors says the same thing - her husband is from Haiti, and she is from the Bahamas, and neither knows where their ancestors came from prior to those two countries.  Both are naturalized citizens, so they don't have a problem with the "American" part - but neither is African that they are aware of.


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## Kembudo-Kai Kempoka (Feb 5, 2007)

Here's a pot-stir for y'all.

People are so concerned about being Politically Correct, thet they have taken to avoiding the obvious, and softening what does not need to be softened. 

Blacks don't have an issue with being called black; many celebrate the cultural differences, and wouldn't want to be some boring-*** cracker anyways. Whites, however, have an issue with being percieved as racist if they call a black person...well, black. Calling someone black is not intrinsically derogatory. Neither is referring to a senior as old. Guess what? They're old. It is possible they somehow didn't notice it until you used the phrase colloquially, but chances are...they know. We don't need to sanitize language and culture so far that we cease observing the obvious; that gay people are gay (as opposed to "differently oriented sexual preferences"); blacks are black; yellow peeps be yellow, and so on. "They" aren't. 

Merely being the majority does not necessitate sanitation in favor of the minority. It does not equal discrimination, unless YOU use the differences in a discriminatory fashion. Obvious statements are NOT racial epithets.

Mexicans, puerto ricans, chicano's, and asundry hispanics also know they are brown. Many where I live even boast Brown Pride paraphenilia. Many of the mexicans where I live are damn proud of it, too. Oddly, the whites are so uptight about angering or offending the mexicans around here, that they have turned their lives upside down, re-writing school year timetables and cirriculums to account for the custom of going south of the border when the work dries up to see family and bring down the money they made here to inject into their economy, instead of the US economy from which they earned it. Do you think for a minute they feel bad about it? Do you think they are going out of their way to sanitize their behavior to avoid offending the wealthy landowner whites they work for in the north?  And they have negotiated fund-raisers with the local aristocracy to pay for the head-count swells in illegals that coincide with the work flow tide, since the state has restrictions on per-capita compensation amounts and attendence.

I'm white. I grew up in a rural part of Hawaii that was not white. Got the crap beat out of me often. And? So what? Does that mean I should show up there, and attempt to sanitize local culture away from using the derogatory terms for whites versus locals, and switch to some innane universal term for "person"? Maybe that, alone, would magically undo the years of discrimination and economic depression many Hawaiians have faced in an economy run largely by whites...and economy that employs them, but does not aid them in gaining an improvement in the quality of life by keeping wages low, jobs scarce, and the cost of living high.

Bigotry and language are not the same, people. It's what's between your ears that sets you apart as someone for whom language is a term for derision and subjugation, or just a term.

Every black man and woman I've had the pleasure to know has waaaaaaayyy preferred being called black, to being called African-American, negro, or negroid. If you want to know, just ask a couple. I'm sure that, after they knife you and take your wallet then jack your car, they'll be glad to tell you.

D.


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## bushidomartialarts (Feb 5, 2007)

so the other day i watched a rerun of 'all in the family'.  absolutely brilliant show.  tackled social issues like race, drugs, the war, gender roles.  did it in ways that nobody had before and nobody has since.

the thing that really got me was, since political correctness really hit the forefront...there is absolutely no way that show would have been greenlighted now.  would have been considered offensive.


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## evenflow1121 (Feb 5, 2007)

I think that the more you end up dwelling on the politically correctness spectrum the more it hurts society.  I am not too big on hyphenated names, I am half Cuban and half Israeli (funny mix huh, well I am sure the Miami, FL thing gave it away =D) anyway, not to deviate from the topic at hand the term African American, two problems with it, one is most black people in this country have absolutely no ties to Africa say that their ancestors were brought here from Africa several hundred years ago.  My other reason is this, you go to the mall say and you interact with a black sales person, because of this whole pc bs you may automatically think oh there goes an African American, but what if that black man or woman is from the carribean or what if he happens to be British, see how it doesn't work.  It would be unfair to label all black people in this country as African American, then you have the other side of the coin, White South Africans living in the US for example, they happen to be African and living in the US, they are definately African Americans as well.  And please dont get me started on the whole hispanic/latino concept.


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## Rich Parsons (Feb 5, 2007)

crushing said:


> Rich,
> 
> Did the Time article specify how one's race was determined? The 1.6% for 'Two or more races' seems very low to me. Would Tony Dungy be considered 'Black' or 'Two or more races'? Similarly, another timely figure, Sen. Obama?
> 
> ...





My Apologies the sub article has the following sources:

U.S. Census Bureau; Population Referecne Bureau; National Center for Health Statistics; Pew Hispanic Center.


I believe if they answered on the census information of multiple races then they would be considered multiple. If they entered only African American then they would be part of that grouping.


As to the problems with using African American, I went to college with a caucasion who selected African American. There were some people who were extremely upset by this and thought he was trying to get away wiht something. He asked what the "legal" qualification was for the term. The only answer he could get was "Ancestors" from the Continent of Africa. His parents were South African. He was born there as a child and nationalized as a Child to USA with his parents. 

So, if a scholorship stated Negro or Black he would not qualify, if it stated African American he would qualify. It was not the intent, but given the existing definitions he did qualify. The problem is that if you state all human life cam from the "Cradle" area then one has to wonder if we are not all African Americans. 

I have Native American. A Grand Mother burned the docs to get rid of the disgrace. (* Her and my loss in the end *) I have no affiliation to any tribe or nation, with no such recognition I cannot claim Native American. Even though the percentage is low, I have some of the features. I once had aninterview where I did not fill out the "Optional" material for race and such. The HR person asked if I would as it was for a Government contractor. I did. He re-read it all and when he came to Caucasion, he asked if I as sure.  I then had to explain the above. He wanted me to select Hispanic or Multiple or something, as he was hiring "Minorities" as a priority. Well It took me 6 months to get into the job instead of 2 weeks. And looking at those who were hired before me, they all were either female and or some racial minority, I realized my hunch was correct. But I was honest and could sleep with myself. 

So I am not white enough for many whites who are racist. 

I am not a minority by any legal definition. 

I am just an American who is trying to make it through life the best I can, with the choices I have made and will make. 

:asian:


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## Tez3 (Feb 6, 2007)

I think we all have far more in common than we have differences and alot of the political correctness is of little use really. Those of us who are parents worry about our children's futures, we worry when the children have a fever, when they are sad or don't do well at school. We worry about our mortagages or rent, we stress about our jobs or lack of. We worry about elderly parents, hospitals and everyday life problems. I'm a mother in England and I'm sure any mother anywhere in the world will have the same concerns as I have. Those concerns won't be about colour or race. Politicians should realise the priorities we really do have in life and get on with making life better for all of us!


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## CTKempo Todd (Feb 6, 2007)

fnorfurfoot said:


> I agree. If only the government would allow us to leave it at that. But they always want to separate us into groups.


 

Unfortunately you are right. Same with the media.  How many times do you read in the paper...WHITE cop shoots BLACK man and vice versa..

Another example:
Police officer (K9 unit) friend of mine back in early 90's was called in to  crowd control duty in New Brunswick NJ and his dog bit someone who threatened him. The guy happenned to be black (not that the dog cared because I believe they are color blind) and the media was all over this the from the get go because of the color of the guy. Then Al Sharpton moves in and has mock funeral for the dog carrying a casket with the dogs name on it in front of my buddies house..So sad...


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## elder999 (Feb 6, 2007)

Okay then.

I grew up in a mostly white neighborhood. When people identified their ethnicity then, they called themselves "Italian," or "Irish," or "Polish" or Lithuanian." Not "_Whatever_-American." While those ethnicities are hyphenated from time to time, odds are most of you who are of similar descent simply identify yourself as such: "Scotch-Irish" for example. In the end, Id look pretty silly identifying myself as "African," so, in this respect, it makes sense. Otherwise, it just doesnt. "Black" has been more than good enough for years, and is far easier than :"African/Native/Polynesian/Dutch/Scottish-American" which is far more accurate. I despise "PC" talk, and all it entails-most of the time, I check "Other" on those EEO identification questions, especially if it says (and sometimes explains) "African American." I certainly dont need anyones affirmative action-not with my resume-and dont intend to allow anyone to take credit for it.

For the record, Im legally half Indian, or _American_ Indian, not from India. I may be less than half, I could well be more- a grandparent on each side was _legally_ full blooded. I bring this up only because the blood quota thing has become such an issue, not only in and amongst the tribes, but in the tribe and individuals relationship with the federal government. I also bring it up because we were "Indians" before we were "Native Americans," something that some find insulting, because the First Nations were here before there was an "America." 

Im also the descendent of freed slaves on my fathers side-my name is the Anglicization of a Ghanian name, and Cuffees have been free men in the U.S. sincewell, before it was the U.S. I bring this up not to brag, but to point out that the appellation "African American" is made distinct-whatever ones thoughts about its necessity or the lack thereof- entirely to distinguish those in this hemisphere who are descended from slaves-not necessarily just in the U.S., mind you-Brazil, Puerto Rico, Jamaica, Bermuda the Bahamas and Haiti and a variety of other places-all in the _Americas_ -all have black populations there whose ancestors were brought there as mine were: as *cargo*-and, while we can be fairly certain of the variety of regions and tribes most were brought from, far too few can say with any degree of certainty where in Africa their ancestors came from.. Of course, cultural differences in most of those places lead to those people being called other things, and sometimes, perhaps rightfully, resenting being called "African American, (just as I do) but the term could be rightfully applied to them, under the terms I set above, at any -rate. Funnily enough, I have a colleague, well, no a mentor at the lab who is a naturalized American citizen from South Africa-quite white. He often conferred with me as "one African American to another." In Brazil, the distinction "black" has more to do with socio-economic status than skin color, and its a social gaffe of the highest order to call someone much darker than me "black."

What then, is it, besides slavery that leads to such a distinction in the U.S., aside from our storied history of racial disharmony? While I find the variety of "only see one color" posted answers here extremely enlightened and gratifying, the reality is far too different. One only has to look at the fuss over making English our official language, or immigration, or Barack Obama and his being called "articulate" to see this. While data are also gathered for demographics, and used by companies for what I call EIEIO purposes, the fact is that many people, white and black, would be more comfortable if Obama sounded a bit more like Fifty Cent, or Snoop Dogg, or at least was articulate in the fashion and cadence of Jesse Jackson. One only has to go through what I have every time Ive dealt with the police, or had people start in actual surprise to find that I am in fact the person who rightfully occupies the office of the person theyve come to meet, to know that we have a way to go. On only has to see how quick those who are not from the states are to separate themselves from black America and all the negatives that are associated with it: Jamaican, Bahamians and Haitains, for example-to see that the distinction of race is important to many people, for reasons good and bad.

The gentleman in question at the beginning of this thread are the first black coaches to make it to the Superbowl, and thus one was the first to win it. We continue to have "African American" firsts in this country, and perhaps when there are no more to be had, well have moved-as a society-past the need for labels, and pointing such things out.


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## Rich Parsons (Feb 6, 2007)

elder999 said:


> Okay then.
> 
> I grew up in a mostly white neighborhood. When people identified their ethnicity then, they called themselves "Italian," or "Irish," or "Polish" or Lithuanian." Not "_Whatever_-American." While those ethnicities are hyphenated from time to time, odds are most of you who are of similar descent simply identify yourself as such: "Scotch-Irish" for example. In the end, Id look pretty silly identifying myself as "African," so, in this respect, it makes sense. Otherwise, it just doesnt. "Black" has been more than good enough for years, and is far easier than :"African/Native/Polynesian/Dutch/Scottish-American" which is far more accurate. I despise "PC" talk, and all it entails-most of the time, I check "Other" on those EEO identification questions, especially if it says (and sometimes explains) "African American." I certainly dont need anyones affirmative action-not with my resume-and dont intend to allow anyone to take credit for it.




While I take your point and understand it, I would have a much better warm fuzzy with someone saying Kenyan-American or ..., then just a whole continent. 



elder999 said:


> For the record, Im legally half Indian, or _American_ Indian, not from India. I may be less than half, I could well be more- a grandparent on each side was _legally_ full blooded. I bring this up only because the blood quota thing has become such an issue, not only in and amongst the tribes, but in the tribe and individuals relationship with the federal government. I also bring it up because we were "Indians" before we were "Native Americans," something that some find insulting, because the First Nations were here before there was an "America."



I also find it funny that the PC name does not fit properly and could and does find itself insulting. 

Thank you for sharing.


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## still learning (Feb 7, 2007)

Hello, Thank-you for all your thoughts and opinions!   We as human beings still has a long way to go....to become human and treat human as human beings,  and not as a race,religion, color,tribes,.....it may take another couple of hundred years before this is solve.

Remember it is our Parents,Governments,Religions, and role models that form our thoughts and actions.

Teach a child to hate,hit,destroy,tease,bully,steal,lie,cheat.....they will grow-up to be just like you!  Kid's look at Adults as Gods and wants to be just like them....natural process of growing up......

AS martial artist...we must learn to become excellant role models for our students and fellow martial artist.....become great examples to the community around us...


Each one of you can become good part.....with many good parts...comes a WHOLE NEW WAY OF LIFE.................Aloha

PS: We  need plenty good parts?


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