# History of Kenpo - Al Tracy



## BFoley (Sep 19, 2003)

Several years ago (~6), on the old Tracy's Karate website, Al Tracy was writing a series of articles concerning the history of Kenpo as he saw it.   Does anyone know where I might be able to find them ? Thanks.


Brian


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## molson (Sep 19, 2003)

You can find them at :

www.tracsykarate.com

www.tracyskenpo.com


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## BFoley (Sep 19, 2003)

Thanks molson. Actually, the series of articles I was looking for
were more in depth. Al Tracy described the beginning years (the original techniques), and how Ed Parker added forms and additional techniques to Kenpo. 

Brian


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## Randy Strausbaugh (Sep 19, 2003)

Those articles were written by Jim Tracy, his brother.  They were once posted on Al Tracy's website, but no longer.  They are facinating reading from someone who was there in the early days, but if you get your hands on them, don't quote them here.  You run the risk of being accused of spreading anti-EPAK propaganda.


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## TheEdge883 (Sep 20, 2003)

I would like to read these articles. If you find them, please let me know.


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## BFoley (Sep 22, 2003)

Thanks Randy, it was Jim Tracy. The articles were very interesting and I wish I has copied them. Oh well. 


Brian


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## Daniel Eugene Norvell (Sep 22, 2003)

I might have what ur looking for ... give me a 
hollar using my email address ....
Best In Kenpo 
Dan


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## BFoley (Sep 22, 2003)

Dan, just sent you an email. Thanks


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## Ceicei (Sep 22, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Daniel Eugene Norvell _
> *I might have what ur looking for ... give me a
> hollar using my email address ....
> Best In Kenpo
> Dan *



So the information you have cannot be found by a link online?  There are several of us interested in this history (admittedly what you have is from Tracy's viewpoint).

- Ceicei


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## Daniel Eugene Norvell (Sep 22, 2003)

TRIED TWICE TO EMAIL U ... CAN'T GET THRU
DAN


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## jfarnsworth (Sep 22, 2003)

I would be interested in reading it as well.:asian:


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## Zoran (Sep 23, 2003)

Those articles are some of the reasons why Tracy and Parker Kenpo has had some bad blood. This is why people are not willing to post them. Why open old wounds after so much has been done to close the rift between the two systems. Afer all, the articles were removed for a reason.


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## don bohrer (Sep 23, 2003)

If you got em post em


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## Randy Strausbaugh (Sep 23, 2003)

> _Originally posted by don bohrer _
> *If you got em post em  *


They were under copyright, and everyone knows that copying such material off the web is ILLEGAL!


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## Zoran (Sep 23, 2003)

> _Originally posted by don bohrer _
> *If you got em post em  *



Why are Texans such trouble makers? :shrug:


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## don bohrer (Sep 23, 2003)

> Why are Texans such trouble makers?


Our boots are to tight. :shrug: 



> They were under copyright


Ok for that one I'm goinna make you listen to this old Marty Robbins song! 

Don't fall out the saddle... 

Out in the West Texas town of El Paso 
I fell in love with a Mexican girl.                             
Nighttime would find me in Rose's Cantina,
Music would play and Felina would whirl.

Blacker than night were the eyes of Felina,
Wicked and evil while casting a spell.
My love was strong for this Mexican maiden,
I was in love, but in vain I could tell.

One night a wild young cowboy came in, 
Wild as the West Texas wind...
Dashing and daring, a drink he was sharing,
With wicked Felina, the girl that I love.
So in an - ger

I challenged his right for the love of this maiden;
Down went his hand for the gun that he wore.
My challenge was answered, in less than a heartbeat
The handsome young stranger lay dead on the floor.

Just for a moment I stood there in silence,
Shocked by the foul evil deed I had done.
Many thoughts ran through my mind as I stood there;
I had but one chance and that was to run.

Out through the back door of Rose's I ran, 
Out where the horses were tied...
I caught a good one; he looked like he could run,
Up on his back and away I did ride.
Just as fast as 

I could from the West Texas town of El Paso,
Out thru the badlands of New Mexico.
Back in El Paso my life would be worthless;
Everything's gone in life nothing is left.

But it's been so long since I've seen the young maiden,
My love is stronger that my fear of death.

I saddled up and away I did go, 
Riding alone in the dark...
Maybe tomorrow a bullet may find me,
Tonight nothing's worse than this pain in my heart.
And as last here 

I am on the hill overlooking El Paso,
I can see Rose's Cantina below.
My love is strong and it pushes me onward, 
Down off the hill to Felina I go.

Off to my right I see five mounted cowboys,
Off to my left ride a dozen or more.
Shouting and shooting; I can't let them catch me,
I've got to make it to Rose's back door.

Something is dreadfully wrong for I feel 
A deep burning pain in my side...
It's getting harder to stay in the saddle.
I'm getting weary, unable to ride.
But my love for 

Felina is strong and I rise where I've fallen;
Though I am weary, I can't stop to rest.
I see the white puff of smoke from the rifle,
I feel the bullet go deep in my chest.

From out of nowhere, Felina has found me,
Kissing my cheek as she kneels by my side.
Cradled by two loving arms that I'll die for,
One little kiss and Felina goodbye.


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## Randy Strausbaugh (Sep 23, 2003)

> _Originally posted by don bohrer _
> *Ok for that one I'm goinna make you listen to this old Marty Robbins song!  *



HA! I'm immune!  When I was a kid, my dad used to play that and Tex Ritter's "Hillbilly Heaven" until I cursed the guy who invented the record player.  Not to mention "Son, Don't Go Near The Indians", "Cowboy In The Continental Suit", and "A Boy Named Sue".  :barf:


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## RCastillo (Sep 23, 2003)

> _Originally posted by jfarnsworth _
> *I would be interested in reading it as well.:asian: *



No, young one, you're not ready.


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## RCastillo (Sep 23, 2003)

I happen to like Marty Robbins!


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## Randy Strausbaugh (Sep 23, 2003)

I'm not sure which is stranger- that you like it or that you admit it.  Either way, you might want to keep that under your hat.  

Jason- press on, the articles are worth the effort.


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## RCastillo (Sep 23, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Randy Strausbaugh _
> *I'm not sure which is stranger- that you like it or that you admit it.  Either way, you might want to keep that under your hat.
> 
> Jason- press on, the articles are worth the effort.  *



That's it, where's my sparring gear!:boxing:

P.S. I happen to have ALL the articles!


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## Randy Strausbaugh (Sep 23, 2003)

> _Originally posted by RCastillo _
> *That's it, where's my sparring gear!:boxing:*


If it's with your musical taste, you'll never find it! :rofl:


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## BFoley (Sep 23, 2003)

Dan;

  Just fixed my email. Try it again. Thanks.

Brian


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## don bohrer (Sep 23, 2003)

> HA! I'm immune! When I was a kid, my dad used to play that and Tex Ritter's "Hillbilly Heaven" until I cursed the guy who invented the record player. Not to mention "Son, Don't Go Near The Indians", "Cowboy In The Continental Suit", and "A Boy Named Sue".


 :shrug: 

Randy, I can hear your toes tappin! You like this stuff...admit it!  

RCastillo,  hit em again... make him like this stuff.  


Someone couldn't leak out just a chapter or two? 

don


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## RCastillo (Sep 24, 2003)

> _Originally posted by don bohrer _
> *:shrug:
> 
> Randy, I can hear your toes tappin! You like this stuff...admit it!
> ...



I would, but all the AKers will hunt me down.


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## KenpoDave (Sep 24, 2003)

That is the title of the article series in question.  Six parts of a 16 part series were posted on the original Tracy's website, written by Will Tracy back when he was maintaining the website.

When Al Tracy took over the website, the articles were discontinued.  I have no idea whether Will Tracy ever finished the series or whether they can be found anywhere else on the internet.

They are fascinating.  Glad I made hard copies...


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## CoolKempoDude (Sep 25, 2003)

> _Originally posted by KenpoDave _
> *That is the title of the article series in question.  Six parts of a 16 part series were posted on the original Tracy's website, written by Will Tracy back when he was maintaining the website.
> 
> When Al Tracy took over the website, the articles were discontinued.  I have no idea whether Will Tracy ever finished the series or whether they can be found anywhere else on the internet.
> ...



can you post this hard copies here ? i love to see what it is. Thank you


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## CoolKempoDude (Sep 25, 2003)

> _Originally posted by RCastillo _
> *I would, but all the AKers will hunt me down. *



if you are afraid, just email me all the copies and i will post it. Since i am no long in kempo , there is no fault no harm


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## don bohrer (Sep 25, 2003)

> I have no idea whether Will Tracy ever finished the series or whether they can be found anywhere else on the internet



I did a casual search last night on the web for them but couldn't find the letters. I'm going to keep looking. Besides being an interesting read I am looking for more information on TRACO. If these letters help in my search or not I don't know? Maybe I should just two step around this subject.  

don


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## Randy Strausbaugh (Sep 25, 2003)

> _Originally posted by KenpoDave _
> *...written by Will Tracy back when he was maintaining the website. *


You are correct, sir.  Thanks for correcting my brain glitch. :asian:


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## WhiteTiger (Sep 25, 2003)

The material that these articles were based on was also released by the Al Tracy on video tape, and YES the information on them is bound to p**s-off many AK practitioners.  All I will say about them is from a research point view he shows alot of evidence to support his statements on the video tapes.


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## CoolKempoDude (Sep 27, 2003)

> _Originally posted by WhiteTiger _
> *The material that these articles were based on was also released by the Al Tracy on video tape, and YES the information on them is bound to p**s-off many AK practitioners.  All I will say about them is from a research point view he shows alot of evidence to support his statements on the video tapes. *



can you give me the name of this video tape and where i can ORDER??

since nobody here is BRAVE enough to post it DIRECTLY or INDIRECTLY, i want to know the answer 
:soapbox: :soapbox: :soapbox:


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## WhiteTiger (Sep 28, 2003)

> _Originally posted by CoolKempoDude _
> *can you give me the name of this video tape and where i can ORDER??
> 
> since nobody here is BRAVE enough to post it DIRECTLY or INDIRECTLY, i want to know the answer
> :soapbox: :soapbox: :soapbox:  *



As far as I know the History of Kenpo Videos are no longer available, but you could try contacting Al Tracy directly via his website.  He may have a few left laying around.


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## CoolKempoDude (Sep 28, 2003)

> _Originally posted by WhiteTiger _
> *As far as I know the History of Kenpo Videos are no longer available, but you could try contacting Al Tracy directly via his website.  He may have a few left laying around. *



i called 2 hours ago. Who did I talk ? I talked to Al tracy's wife. There is no more the history of kenpo videos.


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## RCastillo (Sep 28, 2003)

> _Originally posted by CoolKempoDude _
> *i called 2 hours ago. Who did I talk ? I talked to Al tracy's wife. There is no more the history of kenpo videos. *



Not cool,cause I never bought one myself. I better see if someone out there share!


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## CoolKempoDude (Sep 28, 2003)

> _Originally posted by RCastillo _
> *Not cool,cause I never bought one myself. I better see if someone out there share! *



I never own this video before. I guess if many people call Al Tracy about it. I'm sure he will have this kind of video in the future.

if you want this kind of video, just call him and inquire about it. The more you call, the SOONER you will get it 

Let me share with people about Al tracy's article **ssing AK guys off.

According to his wife, the reason why this article is no more because some of information appeared in this article was * not * accurate.

They don't care if It is P*ssing AK guys off.

Important note: this is not my intention to stir or create problem between AK and Al Tracy's people.

i just simply share with you what i know


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## KenpoDave (Sep 30, 2003)

> _Originally posted by CoolKempoDude _
> *can you post this hard copies here ? i love to see what it is. Thank you *



The copies I have are copyrighted by Will Tracy.  I do not know much about copyright law, so I will not post them.  I would suggest contacting Will Tracy about them.  Oh, and I was incorrect.  I only have 5 chapters of the series, not 6.

As far as Al Tracy's History of Kenpo videos are concerned, he released those tapes around 1991, about 5 years before Will Tracy began writing his series.  I asked Mr. Tracy (Al) in 1994 about purchasing the tapes, and he said he had discontinued them in light of new information he was uncovering regarding our history.  The newer information made the tapes seem very incomplete, and therefore inaccurate.


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## don bohrer (Oct 1, 2003)

Has anybody checked ebay for the tapes?


don


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## CoolKempoDude (Oct 1, 2003)

> _Originally posted by don bohrer _
> *Has anybody checked ebay for the tapes?
> 
> 
> don *



if you told me that 3 days ago, i would look at ebay but NOT any more because of inaccurate information in this tape


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## CoolKempoDude (Oct 1, 2003)

> _Originally posted by WhiteTiger _
> *The material that these articles were based on was also released by the Al Tracy on video tape, and YES the information on them is bound to p**s-off many AK practitioners.  All I will say about them is from a research point view he shows alot of evidence to support his statements on the video tapes. *



if the information was not accurate, why AK guys p*ssed off ?? what did this article contain which made AK guys p*ssed off ??

this is quite interesting. I would like to know and hopefully, the reader of this articles can answer my questions ?


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## Ender (Oct 1, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Zoran _
> *Those articles are some of the reasons why Tracy and Parker Kenpo has had some bad blood. This is why people are not willing to post them. Why open old wounds after so much has been done to close the rift between the two systems. Afer all, the articles were removed for a reason. *



why was there bad blood?


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## BFoley (Oct 1, 2003)

Dave;

  Thanks for the replies. I've tried to contact Will Tracy, but he doesn't respond. 

Brian


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## Ceicei (Oct 1, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Ender _
> *why was there bad blood? *



I'm curious also.

Does this mean that Ed Parker started kenpo and Al Tracy left then started the Tracy system?  How did all of this happen? 

I really, really would like to know how Kenpo started and where all the other kenpo systems broke off (and why)...
:soapbox: 

I realize this may be treading political waters... but history has a way of being educational.  

:idunno: 

- Ceicei


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## Michael Billings (Oct 1, 2003)

You need to ask someone who knows.  I KNOW definitively that they got their Brown Belts.  I KNOW that they moved up to the San Francisco area & opened a school ... and that is all I know.  

Remember the timeframe, early 60's.  Brown was not far from Black back then, and there were lots of promotions for the purpose of teaching, while you worked on the material you needed to actually make up the deficit.  I am not saying or implying that this applied to the Tracy's at all, but I do know people who were around and did open schools for the IKKA, or TRACO during that period of time.

I think, but don't know, that they left and were still training with Mr. Parker for a while.  Ricardo, do you know?  I know DC "knows", but this is a highly charged issue, and all you can do is ask some of the Seniors and New Seniors who were around.  Probably by phone would be the best way.  Not in this forum.  I think people are leary of leaving themselves open to the attacks that talking about this stuff can lead to ... up to and including legal action.  So a phone call may go a lot further than posting something on the net.

-MB


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## CoolKempoDude (Oct 1, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Ceicei _
> *I'm curious also.
> 
> Does this mean that Ed Parker started kenpo and Al Tracy left then started the Tracy system?  How did all of this happen?
> ...



i have to agree wholeheartly.

by knowing what really happened in American Kenpo and why AK guys p*ssed off when Tracy's articles were published, we will have better understand the history of Kenpo


If somebody knows about this, please share it here or email me so that we can satisfy our curiosity

My email and PM OPENS for your answers. Please let me know. I promise i won't tell other.

DEMAND for the truth.


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## RCastillo (Oct 1, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Michael Billings _
> *You need to ask someone who knows.  I KNOW definitively that they got their Brown Belts.  I KNOW that they moved up to the San Francisco area & opened a school ... and that is all I know.
> 
> Remember the timeframe, early 60's.  Brown was not far from Black back then, and there were lots of promotions for the purpose of teaching, while you worked on the material you needed to actually make up the deficit.  I am not saying or implying that this applied to the Tracy's at all, but I do know people who were around and did open schools for the IKKA, or TRACO during that period of time.
> ...



To be honest with you, I know very little. Have heard all sorts of stories, and even after speaking with Master Al privately twice, I've never asked him for any info on the subject.:asian:


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## Randy Strausbaugh (Oct 2, 2003)

According to his website, Al Tracy is planning a series of history-oriented seminars in the spring and summer of 2004.  The site says that the seminars will focus on the history of the katas (who invented them, when and why they were taught, etc.) but I guess he will take questions at that time.  Sounds like an opportunity to clear up a lot.


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## KenpoDave (Oct 4, 2003)

Scott has some good history info on his site:::


http://www.freewebz.com/kenpoexchange/home.htm


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## WhiteTiger (Oct 4, 2003)

There is no doubt that history is often distorted to serve those writing it.  Don't just take for granted what you are told, or what you read, not even by senior black belts who claim "I was there", unless they can back it up with evidence.  There is sufficient documentation available to develop a good sence of what was going on with Kenpo in the early 60's and even back into the 1930's.  There are old books, magazine articles, advertizing panthlets, signed and dated Black belt certificates, court transcripts, birth certificates, death certificates, ship manifests, ect.  Most of these are in the hands of only 1 or 2 of the Senior Masters, and when asked they will share the information privately.  I have personally seen some of these documents, and unless you presume to call these men forgers and perjurers you will have to accept the evidence they posess.  Granted these documents do not tell the whole story, but enough is there to develop the general picture.


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## KenpoDave (Oct 5, 2003)

It interests me that people still post things about the Tracy's receiving their brown belts from Ed Parker.  I believe the exact quote on this thread is "I KNOW definitively that they received their brown belts..."

Look, Ed Parker published a family tree.  On it, he lists Al and Jim Tracy as black belts, and under their names, lists 106 other black belts.

On that evidence alone, one should KNOW that Al and Jim Tracy were of high enough rank to have promoted black belts that were recognized by their own instructor.

Al Tracy's shodan and sandan certificates, signed by Ed Parker, are available for viewing on the internet.  It seems that some 42 years after his promotion, and 22 years after Parker published his family tree, and 2 Gatherings of Eagles, people would not still question that.  Seems petty.


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## KENPOJOE (Oct 7, 2003)

Hi folks!
I was looking at the thread and decided to add my "2 cents" for what it is worth to the mix...
First of all, I read Will Tracy's series of articles and wrote several responses on the AOL "Kenpo message board" [remember that place,DEVHOP?] and Yahoo's "Kenpo karate" message board [created by PC Wood] way back when they first showed up on Mr. Tracy's website. There were indeed several inaccuracies in the articles and the subiquent video. It was a case of "Kenpo revisionist history 101" in several instances [namely the "90 % of jujitsu was taken out of American Kenpo" among other statements] However, there were also many wonderful historical aspects of the American Kenpo system that the Tracy brothers were privy to because they were there! 
To the best of my knowledge, originally there were to be 3 history tapes...I own one and i was informed that a second tape [in which Al Tracy receives his 10 dan from Tino Tuiosega] was also available. I know of one individual who only received the first tape and never received anything else [even though he paid for the entire package] I am an "AKer" as some of you refer to, however, I also have had a good relationship with Mr. and Mrs. Tracy, attending one of his history seminars as well as both of the gathering of eagles and working on video taping interviews for the tracys with numerous attendees for the tracys because of my historical knowledge of these individuals careers [for which I am infinitely grateful].
I believe the articles were yanked because individuals like myself simply wrote Mr. Tracy and his brothers and provided them with historical information that effectively refuted their points in the articles and their own study of various historical facts brought to light [such as Mitose's past career and non martial arts endevors] which caused them to withdraw the articles.
I hope that I was of some service,
KENPOJOE


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