# Back from Japan



## Bujingodai (Sep 30, 2006)

Brian asked me to post something about the trip, 

Japan was very busy, seemed very clean and had the best customer service I had yet to experience in my life. Being a steak and potatoes kind of guy the food was interesting but I am riced out LOL. Back to the service, well it would seem they figure if they have a job to do it to their very best. As for staying longer, no too busy for me. I like my car too much and all the green space.
Impessed with how all the old machinery still works so well.

As for the classes. We made it out to 3 teachers classes. A few of each.

Hatsumi's class, oddly enough I enjoyed this the least of them. Don't misread that. He really is very impressive, his flow is very amazing. Too many people and too little time to work on things to get my interest. But to  be honest I guess people are more there to be in his sunlight than train. It is chaotic and I am sure there is a purpose to that. I liked the caligraphy  he did for me very much.
The class at the Budokan was much better in the realm of space, but in order for me to get the feeling for a technique I need to play with it. There were too many stoppages for my taste. But again very impressed. So don't get me wrong.
I was not keen of being made fun of by the other artists in the building for studying Ninjutsu. But they have small minds obviously
I was interested to see so many Godan tests being done by other Shihan. I did not see Hatsumi do one.

Shiraishi Sensei, only 7 of us at what turned out to be 3+ hrs. Awsome man. Very sweet and has a wonderful energy about him. He is very subtle and I imagine would take me many many many classes to get the movement even begun.

Nagato Sensei, I enjoyed the class very very much. Time to work on it, the right amount of velocity in technique for me, good combative feeling. For me if I was to stay in Japan it would be the class I would not miss.

I was put off by somethings if you are to ask my opinion. I found the etiquette from what I have experienced to be lax for a simple word.
Eating on the mats, half uniforms, laying all around the mats, bowing even in the most basic times, overpopulation of high rank, just general too relaxed in atmosphere but at the same time too rushed. I don't know.
I saw alot of posturing, alot of checking each other out. That includes me as well as I was forming an opinion as well. But the feeling that I was expecting, that family feeling didn't exist for me, save but a few decent folk that actually live and study there. They seemed to have it. Craig seemed to be a super nice guy, so did Shawn Gray.

These are just my opinions, I can be a tad outspoken about somethings though.


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## Don Roley (Sep 30, 2006)

Bujingodai said:


> Hatsumi's class, oddly enough I enjoyed this the least of them. Don't misread that. He really is very impressive, his flow is very amazing. Too many people and too little time to work on things to get my interest. But to  be honest I guess people are more there to be in his sunlight than train. It is chaotic and I am sure there is a purpose to that. I liked the caligraphy  he did for me very much.



Hey, I won't flame you for that.

I think it is true that there are just too many people most of the time for him to give any individual care. There are a few people that he takes the time to correct and talk to. But there is no way he can do that with everyone. The shihan's classes are much smaller. They are not as good as Hatsumi of course, but that is where you will probably get the correction to that habit you were not even aware of.

Of course, one class with him gives me stuff to work on in my own time for about a month. It also encourages me to go back and work on my basics like the san shin.


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## tshadowchaser (Sep 30, 2006)

Sounds like you had a good time and had a chance to learn also


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## Bujingodai (Sep 30, 2006)

I learned alot. About a lot of things.
I enjoyed the trip to a degree. There were alot of factors that affected my enjoyment.

But I don't regret it at all.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Sep 30, 2006)

I will say that I *particularly* enjoyed Shiraishi Sensei's classes.  We had about the same class sizes as you did.  He is very appraochable and demonstrates every technique on each student.  That is really cool!

I also enjoy Nagato Shihans classes as well.  Very practical and combative taijutsu. (no doubt that he could make it work)

I also for one particularly enjoyed training with Seno!  He gave so much individual attention and correction. (that was much appreciated)

There are times when Hatsumi Sensei's classes are not as big, that is the best time to go and train. (in my opinion)  However, it does appear that his classes are just growing and growing.  That is what happens when you are _one of a kind_ like he is.


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## Don Roley (Oct 1, 2006)

Brian R. VanCise said:


> There are times when Hatsumi Sensei's classes are not as big, that is the best time to go and train. (in my opinion)  However, it does appear that his classes are just growing and growing.  That is what happens when you are _one of a kind_ like he is.



Well, it used to be that there were Tai Kais and people would go to see him there. Now there is no Tai Kais, and so you have people come to Japan in kind of a reverse- Mecca pilgimage type of thing. Go see Hatsumi before _he_ dies.

Some of the people that show up don't even seem to know how to make a fist. But I guess they are thinking that if they are still in the art 30 years from now they can tell folks that they remember training with the 34th head of the art as well as the 35th. 

Some of the people just seem to be there to say they were there. I am even aware of at least one case of someone who decided to show up for just a week in Japan just so that he could say he had trained with Hatsumi before he created his own style of ninjutsu. He did not really train all that much before he got here, except with some dubious folks, and really did not want to learn all he could when he was here, but he could say that he had trained with Hatsumi.

Hatsumi is the person you should be training with if that is the level you are at. I just do not see the reasoning in going into debt as a green belt and having to cut back on training at home so that you could go to Japan. The guys that come to Japan not even able to make a fist might get instruction on how to make a fist- or not. But they will miss getting the full lessons that they could from Hatsumi's class. At that level, I honestly believe that spending their money on a few months of training in their home country is a better return on their investment. And later they can come to Japan with more experience under their belt.

I think that I am trying to say that training with Hatsumi is part of a greater whole for training. But too many people seem to think of saying that they trained with him as being the whole in itself. I hope that makes sense.


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## MJS (Oct 1, 2006)

Sounds like you had a good learning experience for the most part!   I agree with Don...GO see these people while they're still with us. Are you planning another trip in the future?

Mike


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## Grey Eyed Bandit (Oct 1, 2006)

Don Roley said:


> Well, it used to be that there were Tai Kais and people would go to see him there. Now there is no Tai Kais, and so you have people come to Japan in kind of a reverse- Mecca pilgimage type of thing. Go see Hatsumi before _he_ dies.
> 
> Some of the people that show up don't even seem to know how to make a fist. But I guess they are thinking that if they are still in the art 30 years from now they can tell folks that they remember training with the 34th head of the art as well as the 35th.
> 
> ...


 
In my opinion, it's going to stay this way until it becomes more acceptable to speak frankly to each other every once in a while. These are the not-so-pleasant side effects of the "shut up and train" adage.


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## Bujingodai (Oct 1, 2006)

It would be a shame just to go to Japan to get that esteem. I have been to Tai Kais and now Japan, I would never say I trained with Hatsumi, yet I have only experienced him. I have alignments on both sides of the "Ninja" debate, but this does nothing for me except for something I thought that after 14 years I should experience. My opinions of both sides remain the same.

I also think it is a shame that we cannot have open minded discussions. I think people will eventually regret it. That is just an opinion.
It's funny that everyone talks about it, but doesn't talk about it.


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## Don Roley (Oct 2, 2006)

MJS said:


> I agree with Don...GO see these people while they're still with us.



I didn't say that...... did I?

I thought I was complaining about people that showed up for training without sucking all that they could from the lessons they get at home. I think that Hatsumi is the only one that can teach certain things and he should make the most of his time to teach them. If a good portion of the class has terrible ukemi skills, he has to keep his training at a level that they can still train safely at. A lot of people are here *not* to get the training that they can't get anywhere else (i.e. Hatsumi). They are here to say that they trained with Hatsumi. Big difference.


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## MJS (Oct 2, 2006)

Don Roley said:


> I didn't say that...... did I?
> 
> I thought I was complaining about people that showed up for training without sucking all that they could from the lessons they get at home. I think that Hatsumi is the only one that can teach certain things and he should make the most of his time to teach them. If a good portion of the class has terrible ukemi skills, he has to keep his training at a level that they can still train safely at. A lot of people are here *not* to get the training that they can't get anywhere else (i.e. Hatsumi). They are here to say that they trained with Hatsumi. Big difference.


 
Sorry..misunderstanding on my part Don.


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## DWeidman (Oct 6, 2006)

Something just stuck out in your post:



Bujingodai said:


> ...But the feeling that I was expecting, that family feeling didn't exist for me...


 
You really thought that there would be a "family feeling"?

Seriously?

-Daniel Weidman
Bujinkan TenChijin Guy...


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## kouryuu (Oct 6, 2006)

Don Roley said:


> A lot of people are here *not* to get the training that they can't get anywhere else (i.e. Hatsumi). They are here to say that they trained with Hatsumi. Big difference.


 
Yep, i'm in japan now and it's fairly evident that's the only reason some of them are here, sad really but their loss.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Oct 6, 2006)

kouryuu said:


> Yep, i'm in japan now and it's fairly evident that's the only reason some of them are here, sad really but their loss.


 
Hey Norman,

I hope you are having a great time!  Enjoy your training to the max.


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## MSTCNC (Oct 6, 2006)

kouryuu said:


> Yep, i'm in japan now...



Normski,

You lucky DOG! :karate:

Enjoy your training! And, PLEASE, give our (MT) respects to Hatsumi Soke!

Make sure to post a little write up (maybe with a few pics?) about your trip once you get home, Mate!

Best Regards,

Andy


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## kouryuu (Oct 6, 2006)

Thanks guys, i`ll do my best:ultracool , and hi to you also Andy, how are you doing?? and when are you over next??


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## Bujingodai (Oct 7, 2006)

Mr Weidman, I was expecting something I didn't see or feel.
Honestly at some points I was disappointed with just the pure lack of etiquette. But like I had said at some point, my opinion means not in the matter. But it is my opinion.
And yeah I was hoping for a certain sensation of comrodary.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Oct 8, 2006)

Hey Dave,

It is to bad that you did not enjoy your trip as much as you thought you would.  For me the exact opposite was true.  Comraderie was great! (the stories I could tell)  The atmosphere was great as well.  Etiquette was what I pretty much expected as well.  However I was not looking for more formal etiquette than what I would expect in any Budo Taijutsu Dojo.  Bottom line though just keep training and enjoying what you do.


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## Don Roley (Oct 8, 2006)

Bujingodai said:


> And yeah I was hoping for a certain sensation of comrodary.



I think you hoped for a dangerous thing.

It is just a fact that there is a lot of people coming in and out of the training in Japan. To expect that people would act as close as a training group that trained together for years is a bit far fetched. What kind of group outside of the fringe sorts would open up their arms just because the other guy had a similar interest?

Mind you, there is a lot of comradery going on when I go to training. I have seen a lot of the people that train here time and time again. Sometimes I meet up with someone who I have never met face to face but we have met in cyberspace and we pretty much know how each other think. (Actually, it is pretty damn strange when people come up to me, introduce themselves and thank me for some of the things I say on the internet.)

But outside of the extreme star trek fans and such, I do not think that opening up to someone that merely has the same interest as you is normal behavior.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Oct 8, 2006)

However, comradery is there.  One of the high points of our trip was going out to dinner with some Swedish practitioners, our group and two Shihans and enjoying a great meal, drinks and lots of talk.  All of this just after my friend passed the Godan test.  So comradery is definately there but it also is what you make of it.


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## stephen (Oct 8, 2006)

Brian R. VanCise said:


> However, comradery is there.  One of the high points of our trip was going out to dinner with some Swedish practitioners, our group and two Shihans and enjoying a great meal, drinks and lots of talk.  All of this just after my friend passed the Godan test.  So comradery is definately there but it also is what you make of it.





I totally agree...I travelled alone my last trip. I met up with others starting with the check in at the hotel (not hard to figure out what gaijin at the Kashiwa Plaza are up to) and lots of post training drinks and food with people from all over the world that I had never met nor spoke to before.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Oct 8, 2006)

stephen said:


> I totally agree...I travelled alone my last trip. I met up with others starting with the check in at the hotel (not hard to figure out what gaijin at the Kashiwa Plaza are up to) and lots of post training drinks and food with people from all over the world that I had never met nor spoke to before.


 
Yes, I really felt alot of comradery!  I was lucky to be with and shown around by people who had been there many times before or lived currently in Japan. (that was definately a plus)

Did I expect to go out to eat with Soke?  *No, I did not*.  However, one of my companions did and also went to a swordstore with him.  The connections are there and the comrader is there also.  The Bujinkan is a big organization with alot of wonderful people in it who are on the path of Budo.  Connect with that energy and I believe it really makes a differance.


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## Bujingodai (Oct 8, 2006)

I did enjoy my trip, the experience was amazing. Please don't read me wrong there. And my sessions with the actual instructors was just great. I also did share the mat with some great people too. The trip wasn't bad per se, just some observations that put me off.
Also I don't think that I was expecting a dangerous thing.
I have been to many group trainings with people I have never met and there were lots of good comrodary there. Lets just say the atmosphere at some points was not my cup of tea.


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