# Doc, Can you answer this question?



## CoolKempoDude (Oct 15, 2003)

Hello Doc,

do you know why Mitose's students tried to kill 2 elderly people with screw driver ????

after reading this thread

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=170392#post170392 ,  some people there suggest me to ask you about it.


pls let me know what really happened

thank you


----------



## Touch Of Death (Oct 15, 2003)

And why would Doc participate in dragging peoples names through the muck?


----------



## CoolKempoDude (Oct 15, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Touch'O'Death _
> *And why would Doc participate in dragging peoples names through the muck? *



somebody told me Doc knows about it.

if you don't want to know what happened, i suggest you stay out and have fun

i want to know because i like history.  If Doc doesn't want to answer this question, it is up to him NOT you.

perhaps, you should reserve your comment for another good use .


----------



## Touch Of Death (Oct 15, 2003)

> _Originally posted by CoolKempoDude _
> *somebody told me Doc knows about it.
> 
> if you don't want to know what happened, i suggest you stay out and have fun
> ...


Ok, but while your at it why don't you have him list every crime an Ed Parker Student has ever commited. Hey, why not start with yourself?


----------



## Touch Of Death (Oct 15, 2003)

For the sake of history, of course.


----------



## CoolKempoDude (Oct 15, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Touch'O'Death _
> *Ok, but while your at it why don't you have him list every crime an Ed Parker Student has ever commited. Hey, why not start with yourself? *



i will do that after doc telling me why mitose's students tried to kill 2 elderly people with a screwdriver


----------



## Shiatsu (Oct 15, 2003)

Try asking Sigung John Bishop, either on his schools web site or his PM


----------



## Brother John (Oct 15, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Touch'O'Death _
> *Ok, but while your at it why don't you have him list every crime an Ed Parker Student has ever commited. Hey, why not start with yourself? *


ToD-
come on. It's an historical fact. I pointed out to CKD (can't you all just start using names?) that since Mr. Chapel has been in Kenpo for so long and was a 1st gen under Mr. Parker that he might know more details than others.
It is true, it did happen.
Why are you up in arms about it? Just wondering. I personally think that Mr. Chow had more problems than just this... but I don't want to get into it now... here.
Not worth it. But IF I wanted to know....
I'd ask.
Just like CKD did.

Deal with it.
Your Brother
John


----------



## arnisador (Oct 15, 2003)

See also:
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1951


----------



## Michael Billings (Oct 15, 2003)

I was looking for the thread.  The article and judgment and sentence is available for public viewing.  But I see this as less than an interest in history, and more as a morbid facination about somebody killing someone.  

PLEASE CoolKempoDude!!!  I get enough of this at work, and it is just not there for the sadistic to enjoy.  Read up on it, research it yourself, but Doc Chapel is unlikely to comment on this any more than he already has.

Respectfully, (which I don't sign with very often, and is really a request to back off, and search for answers on your own, then come here to discuss what you have found.)

-Michael


----------



## CoolKempoDude (Oct 16, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Michael Billings _
> *
> 
> Read up on it, research it yourself, but Doc Chapel is unlikely to comment on this any more than he already has.
> ...





I don't understand why you and other always jump on Doc's mouth and tell me he will not comment anything in this thread ???

let me remind you 1 thing: Commenting in this thread is Doc's decision NOT yours

*you and other figured why you wasted too much times for NOTHING ???*



> _Originally posted by Michael Billings _
> *
> 
> Respectfully, (which I don't sign with very often, and is really a request to back off, and search for answers on your own, then come here to discuss what you have found.)
> ...



When we talk about kempo/kenpo history, it is surely big and as a new person, i don't know where to start.

*I need to start my research somewhere and I decide to start my research here .* Oh yes, thank you for the link

i read through 6 pages of Mitose and it is overwhelm with all the information but it unfortunately turned out NOTHING but all the arguments whether Mitose should be included in AK or NOT in the last 3 pages of Mitose's thread.

i am thirsty for knowledge. If you don't like to read, you can read somebody else but  do not stop other from knowing.

 If i have a question, i would like to have an answer. Period

*
don't tell me what i can and CAN'T say and do here because i haven't done that to you and I am also NOT in your DOJO.*

btw, you can take your *respectfully* out because i don't know what you are *respect* me FOR

Agree?


----------



## Touch Of Death (Oct 16, 2003)

> _Originally posted by CoolKempoDude _
> *I don't understand why you and other always jump on Doc's mouth and tell me he will not comment anything in this thread ???
> 
> let me remind you 1 thing: Commenting in this thread is Doc's decision NOT yours
> ...


If no one is allowed to talk about this but Doc, why did you post this question on a public thread? Yeah, your right that MOD should mind his own Beeswax (HA HA HA).


----------



## CoolKempoDude (Oct 16, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Touch'O'Death _
> *If no one is allowed to talk about this but Doc, why did you post this question on a public thread? Yeah, your right that MOD should mind his own Beeswax (HA HA HA). *



what have AK people done to you ???

didn't you read the title of this thread ??? "Doc , can you answer this question?" Got it???

i didn't say that nobody can comment. Just do not pretend that you are "doc" and tell me he won't comment this or that. Other thant that, you are welcome here. That's all


----------



## Seig (Oct 16, 2003)

Mod. Note. 
Please, keep the conversation polite and respectful.

-Seig
-MT Moderator-


----------



## Touch Of Death (Oct 16, 2003)

> _Originally posted by CoolKempoDude _
> *what have AK people done to you ???
> 
> didn't you read the title of this thread ??? "Doc , can you answer this question?" Got it???
> ...


Your right. Everyonce in awhile I dance around my house pretending to be Doc Chapel. Will the real Doc Chapel please stand up, please stand up.:boing2:
Sean


----------



## CoolKempoDude (Oct 16, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Touch'O'Death _
> *Your right. Everyonce in awhile I dance around my house pretending to be Doc Chapel. Will the real Doc Chapel please stand up, please stand up.:boing2:
> Sean *



you scare him away and he won't return here any more


----------



## Michael Billings (Oct 16, 2003)

If the threads, sentence and judgment and offense reports are not enough, here is Doctor Chapel's email:

*chapel@martialscience.org*

I also have his personal email, so let me know if you do not get a reply and I will shoot him an email to contact you. 

Smearing Mr. Mitose, yet again, on this forum is not productive, and it would be easier for me to merge your thread with the old one so we do not repeat the same information over and over.  This gives us all a shared frame of reference to work from.

Also you may want to be aware, Ron Chapel is a law enforcement officer, trainer, and popular seminar instructor.  He participates on other forums and here when he can.  He is not nearly as available to answer questions like you ask, in real time.  Hence my suggestion to email him.  When he is here, he is more than willing to answer questions and can certainly answer for himself.  I think the rest of us were responding or referring you to other threads because we were trying to engage you, knowing that you may not get a response immediately from Doc.

You by the same token, should not ask a specific person for specific information and then not expect for other's to reply.  Forums are PUBLIC as you are aware.  So by saying, essentially, "who ask yall, I was talking to Doc", is your setting yourself up to be confronted or chastised. Your call of course. 

I will determine whether to merge these threads contingent on what new info is given and the tone of your responses.

-Michael Billings
*<<MT Moderator>>*


----------



## CoolKempoDude (Oct 16, 2003)

if Doc or anybody here can add *new* info about Mitose, pls feel free and welcome to do so.

many thanks for participating in this long and historic QaA


----------



## rmcrobertson (Oct 16, 2003)

Do I have this story wrong? Did Mr. Mitose not die in San Q?

Sorry, but if I am wrong I'll certainly apologize. But I don't see how it's "smearing," anybody to mention the facts about them...especially given the context, and especially given the propensity of kenpo people to argue about honor and about history.

I might add that I don't see, either, why Mr. Chap'el should drop what he's doing to explain/document something that can easily get looked up.


----------



## John Bishop (Oct 16, 2003)

Here's a brief summary of the story according to L.A.  Superior Court records:

Mitose moved to the mainland US around 1954.  Although he never attended any seminary or institute of religious training, he took the self appointed title of the Rev. Dr. James Mitose, and wore the black robe and white collar of a Christian minister.  
He made money by selling herbal "cancer cures", and collecting donations for a "Japanese American Friendship" group (which never existed).  These solicitations were often times done thru threat of violence.  In the early 70s Mitose also met a young karateman, and former Marine at a karate tournament and took him as an assistant (well, he told the kid he was a disciple, but the kid ran errands for Mitose, drove him, and so on). 

By this time, Mitose was deep into accepting large sums of money from people for his various cures and promises.  One of the families was an elderly couple by the name of Namimatsu.  When the senior Namimatsu (Frank) mentioned to their daughter that $65,000.00 of their hard earned money had gone to Mitose, she made a appointment with the L.A. D.A to report the fraud.  The day before the Namimatsus were to speak to the D.A.,  Mitose ordered his impressionable "disciple", Terry Lee, (now known as Nimr Hassan) to kill the Namimatsus. This was accomplished with a screwdriver and rope. 

Frank Namimatsu was killed by strangulation, and his wife was stabbed and left for dead (she survived).  When the DA uncovered Mitose's pattern of intimidation and extortion (he had been using African American "assistants" to frighten English-as-a-Second Language Issei), Mitose became the prime suspect. To make a long story short, Mitose was given a life sentance for ordering his disciple to do the deed. The disciple, who had been an upstanding citizen before this, received a few years for his testimony against the "great grand master". 

Now the debate in Kenpo circles today is that the student, Terry Lee lied on the stand. But...there was enough evidence to show that the murders would not have happened had Mitose not been trying to cover up his other crimes (extortion, fraud), and had he not ordered his loyal student to act out in his honor. 
I have read the court transcripts, and have no doubt that Mitose was at the root of the Namimatsu murders.


----------



## CoolKempoDude (Oct 16, 2003)

John Bishop,

thank you very much for your info. Holy smoke, i didn't know Mitose this BAD

unbelievable and unimagination for what Mitose had done. It looks like a full SCAM

if this is true, i don't want him in Kempo/kenpo linear/tree any more

the truth is really shocking and i have a hard time swallowing this.


----------



## rmcrobertson (Oct 16, 2003)

I'll write it again: "This thing of darknes, I acknowledge mine." We don't get to go back and scrub this stuff we don't care for out of history.


----------



## Seig (Oct 16, 2003)

Actually it is a good example of what can happen when people follow someone blindly.  One of the underlying themes of Mr. Parker's kenpo is to learn to think for yourself.  I will not debate wether or not Mitose is in our lineage or not.  The fact is that his name is assosciated with Kenpo, he commited a heinous act, one of his students commited a heinous act in his name.  The morale here is to use "Logic" and make sure that sort of thing never happens again.


----------



## rmcrobertson (Oct 16, 2003)

I'm wit' Seig, if he doesn't mind excessively.

It's Nietszche's point: "There is no document of history that is not also, at the same time, a document of barbarism." The point is to take the past as a warning...and as a reminder not to be too damn proud, since your actions--living, as we do, in an uncivilized time--will always have that taint.

But then, I believe we all recollect the response to Howard Johnson's quoting of Nietszche in "Blazing Saddles...."


----------



## CoolKempoDude (Oct 17, 2003)

since i join MT, i learn a lot about kenpo

i learn all of its because of you. You guys are the best source for information and research.

Keep all the good stuffs coming.

Continue sharing with each other

thank you for sharing that with me
:asian: artyon:


----------



## kkbb (Oct 17, 2003)

I also was curious about Mitose.... You guys just shed alot of light.

What I find annoying though, is because this man had questionable judgement, people are quick to dismiss his positive accomplishments.  There are a number of "bad" people in the world that have created or passed on wonderful things. If Mitose had not met Chow, & Chow had not met Parker...where would we be? 
:asian:


----------



## Seig (Oct 17, 2003)

> _Originally posted by kkbb _
> *I also was curious about Mitose.... You guys just shed alot of light.
> 
> What I find annoying though, is because this man had questionable judgement, people are quick to dismiss his positive accomplishments.  There are a number of "bad" people in the world that have created or passed on wonderful things. If Mitose had not met Chow, & Chow had not met Parker...where would we be?
> :asian: *


That assumes (always a dangerous thing) that Chow only learned from Mitose, not true.


----------



## CoolKempoDude (Oct 17, 2003)

i just wonder if we have a thread about Chow in this forum. I'm looking for a Chow's thread which was discussed about this man EXTENSIVELY and THROUGHLY.

this man is an important man in Kempo/Kenpo

perhaps, it is no good to go there ????? 

if yes, pls point. Thanks


----------



## Touch Of Death (Oct 17, 2003)

> _Originally posted by CoolKempoDude _
> *i just wonder if we have a thread about Chow in this forum. I'm looking for a Chow's thread which was discussed about this man EXTENSIVELY and THROUGHLY.
> 
> this man is an important man in Kempo/Kenpo
> ...


Please do, I am sorry for trying to hinder you ealier. I was out of line :asian: .
Sean


----------



## arnisador (Oct 17, 2003)

> _Originally posted by CoolKempoDude _
> *i just wonder if we have a thread about Chow in this forum. *



Some relevant threads, though I don't think any of them will give you exactly what you want:

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5566
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=901
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1951
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7782


----------



## CoolKempoDude (Oct 17, 2003)

> _Originally posted by arnisador _
> *Some relevant threads, though I don't think any of them will give you exactly what you want:
> 
> http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5566
> ...



thank you very much for the link and you are right.

i want more than these 

Bishop, if you or somebody else researched about this man, please post here.

thank you


----------



## CoolKempoDude (Oct 17, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Touch'O'Death _
> *Please do, I am sorry for trying to hinder you ealier. I was out of line :asian: .
> Sean *



no problem. No hard feeling:asian:


----------



## Brother John (Oct 18, 2003)

> _Originally posted by rmcrobertson _
> *Do I have this story wrong? Did Mr. Mitose not die in San Q?
> 
> Sorry, but if I am wrong I'll certainly apologize. But I don't see how it's "smearing," anybody to mention the facts about them...especially given the context, and especially given the propensity of kenpo people to argue about honor and about history.
> ...


Sorry Robert, I don't have a lot of skills in looking up legal data.
I go with my Grandfather's advice....
ask those who were there.
While Mr. Chapel may not have been "There", he was definitely more "there" than I.
I didn't mean to rankle so many by trying to help CKD on this point of historical fact.

Your Brother
John


----------

