# Which SD/MA is best for close distance and working with your arms?



## kehcorpz (May 24, 2016)

I don't lean towards wing chun anymore. I have become too sceptical that it's good in the first place and even if it's good that
I could find a good teacher. This is all too risky imo. I don't want to have to worry that my teacher sucks or that he's from a bad
lineage.
I want to learn something which is more or less the same anywhere you go to and where you know that it works.

I'd want something which puts a lot of emphasis on arm techniques, like wing chun does.
What else could you recommend besides wing chun?

For example if you're really close to the attacker and he tries to grab you by the neck or tries to punch you or grab your wrists.
Stuff like that.

I don't want to learn something where you get into trouble if the attacker gets too close cause you need some distance to
throw in your kicks or punches.


----------



## MAfreak (May 24, 2016)

muay thai - the art of eight limbs,
wrestling.
and so we are back at mma respective hybrid systems again.


----------



## Langenschwert (May 25, 2016)

Learn to box (or similar) and learn to wrestle (or similar) and you'll be pretty OK. People seldom grab wrists. That's usually just done in training to show how to work against an opponent's thumb. Muay Thai, Judo, BJJ, Catch Wrestling, it's all good. Find what you like, go train like a beast. Simple as that.


----------



## oftheherd1 (May 25, 2016)

kehcorpz said:


> I don't lean towards wing chun anymore. I have become too sceptical that it's good in the first place and even if it's good that
> I could find a good teacher. This is all too risky imo. I don't want to have to worry that my teacher sucks or that he's from a bad
> lineage.
> I want to learn something which is more or less the same anywhere you go to and where you know that it works.
> ...



Some good advice above.  But your wishes aren't really that clear to me because I don't think they are that clear to you.  What is it about wing chun that you don't like?  That would help in recommending other possible arts.  I also expect that different schools/lineages may share many basics, but have preferences for things the teacher thinks need to be emphasized.  I would have no idea which lineages would be 'bad' lineages, or if such a thing even exists.  Individual schools being bad is more likely than lineages imho.  But finding a teacher that 'sucks' can occur because the teacher doesn't really know the art they are teaching, or knows the art very well, just doesn't have the personal skills to be a good teacher.  Or the student may be the one that sucks.

So for me at any rate, more information would be needed from you for me to be able to recommend another art, if I even could.



Langenschwert said:


> Learn to box (or similar) and learn to wrestle (or similar) and you'll be pretty OK. People seldom grab wrists. That's usually just done in training to show how to work against an opponent's thumb. Muay Thai, Judo, BJJ, Catch Wrestling, it's all good. Find what you like, go train like a beast. Simple as that.



I am not sure which art you are referring to reference thumbs.  In the Hapkido I studied, we did sometimes attack the thumb, but not so often.  I always considered wrist lock defenses served two good purposes.  When you were against a person who had a bladed or clubbing weapon, but didn't have the weapon in their hand, it would be useful to try to immobilize the strong hand.  But if you were the person with the weapon, you would wish to be able to take out the opponent who grabbed your strong arm; wrist, forearm, or shoulder.  Also these days, in oriental countries, you may still find people being grabbed by the wrist to be led somewhere, but that isn't usually an aggressive grab.

The wrist grab doesn't have much application in modern day western fighting as a thing that needs to be defended against.  What it does do however, is start the learning curve of how an opponent's body can be manipulated, and building up muscle memory.  Many of the things learned in the basic wrist/arm/shoulder grab defense will be seen many times again, as part of some other technique, either as part of the technique, or as a way to transition from a technique that didn't work as intended.


----------



## Bill Mattocks (May 25, 2016)

With all due respect, I think the problem is internal.


----------



## JR 137 (May 25, 2016)

kehcorpz said:


> I want to learn something which is more or less the same anywhere you go to and where you know that it works.



No such art exists.  Do all wrestlers wrestle the same way?  Do all boxers box the same way?  Do all Muay Thai fighters fight the same way?  I could keep going, and those are arts/styles/whatever that seem more standardized in a sense that there doesn't seem to be night and day variation of the basics.

There are good teachers, and there are bad teachers.

Have you gotten off the couch and checked out any schools yet?  If not, what are you waiting for?  The only way to tell is to visit a school.

Watching YouTube videos and asking a bunch of people on the internet isn't going to get you anywhere.  Maybe asking us if we know or know of a local instructor that's caught your interest, but that's about it, and that's just people you don't know's opinions.


----------



## Kung Fu Wang (May 25, 2016)

kehcorpz said:


> or grab your wrists.


To 

- prevent a wrist grabbing is easy. You just rotate your arm the same way as your opponent's does.
- break apart a wrist grabbing is also easy. You just rotate your arm to against his thumb.


----------



## Buka (May 25, 2016)

Just arms? Boxing.


----------



## Langenschwert (May 25, 2016)

oftheherd1 said:


> I am not sure which art you are referring to reference thumbs.


 Pretty much what you said. The whole point is that it shows you how to break grips in general, and where the weak point in the grip is, not as a defence to someone actually grabbing your wrist, which doesn't really happen often. However, should someone EVER grab me by the wrist, they shall find in short order what a fruitless scheme that is as I deftly free myself, swift as the wind!!! Muhahahahahaha! *cough* *sputter* *gasp*


----------



## drop bear (May 26, 2016)

Langenschwert said:


> Pretty much what you said. The whole point is that it shows you how to break grips in general, and where the weak point in the grip is, not as a defence to someone actually grabbing your wrist, which doesn't really happen often. However, should someone EVER grab me by the wrist, they shall find in short order what a fruitless scheme that is as I deftly free myself, swift as the wind!!! Muhahahahahaha! *cough* *sputter* *gasp*



There is some cool hand fighting methods.  Cage work has some cool hand fighting elements.


----------



## JR 137 (May 26, 2016)

Buka said:


> Just arms? Boxing.



I was going to say that, but got sidetracked.


----------



## Juany118 (May 26, 2016)

I will say first that any MA is about the teacher.  My teacher instructs both WC (Ip Man Lineage via GM Cheung) and Inosanto Kali.  All of the critiques I have heard about Wing Chun I have yet to encounter in this school.  Now I am lucky enough to have 3 schools with Wing Chun in reasonable distance.  They all teach the same Lineage but I chose the school I did because my teacher teaches "combative" MA.  He is a former LEO and is now a trainer for multiple agencies, including the FBI.  Maybe this attitude is the difference?


----------



## Hanzou (May 27, 2016)

Boxing.


----------



## drop bear (May 27, 2016)

Hanzou said:


> Boxing.




Good enough for seal team 6

Who Teaches SEAL Team 6 How to Fight? | TIME.com


----------



## Kenpoguy123 (May 28, 2016)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> To
> 
> - prevent a wrist grabbing is easy. You just rotate your arm the same way as your opponent's does.
> - break apart a wrist grabbing is also easy. You just rotate your arm to against his thumb.


My way to defend a wrist grab is simple use your free hand to punch them in the face


----------



## Juany118 (May 28, 2016)

Hanzou said:


> Boxing.



Boxing can absolutely work but, as with everything you either need the right teacher/coach or you need to do some training on your own.  I know a guy who was an amateur champ.  He definitely has the skills and one day a guy started swinging on him at a party.  He took the guy apart BUT went to the hospital and had a number of injuries to his hands because he only ever trained with his hands taped up. 

So boxing works, just make sure you do get those hands accustomed to striking without protection is all.


----------



## JP3 (May 28, 2016)

You know... I read the O/P twice... and I think the real answer to what he wants is Judo.  Regular old, stand-up & throw, roll around on the ground if you want, Judo.

Not terribly flashy, no wooden dummy training, but Plenty of effective techniques for a person coming "inside" on you... which, in Judo, is right where you would like for them to be.

Plus, it's safe and lots of fun to train. Unlike quite a few styles I could run down.  Note, I did not say "easy." Ha!  Judo is quick to get halfway decent at, pretty straightforward to get to a level of dangerous competence, but once there, you just feel like... you could keep doing it forever and enver figure everything out. It's cool that way, just like a lot of other arts.

But, Judo fits his bill, except it sounds like he wants to be able to hit stuff.


----------



## Juany118 (May 28, 2016)

JP3 said:


> You know... I read the O/P twice... and I think the real answer to what he wants is Judo.  Regular old, stand-up & throw, roll around on the ground if you want, Judo.
> 
> Not terribly flashy, no wooden dummy training, but Plenty of effective techniques for a person coming "inside" on you... which, in Judo, is right where you would like for them to be.
> 
> ...


----------



## Kung Fu Wang (May 28, 2016)

Kenpoguy123 said:


> My way to defend a wrist grab is simple use your free hand to punch them in the face


If your opponent can grab your leading arm wrist, when you use the other hand to punch him, he can redirect your leading arm to jam your back arm, and rotate your body to against your back hand punch.

In the following picture, it will be difficult for the person on the right to punch his right hand.


----------



## JP3 (May 30, 2016)

Any boxing variation works too, if you want to steer clear of grabbing folks. Well, except maybe Savate, I'm not sure.


----------

