# Video Clip - Kenny Gonzalez / Kali Kenpo



## More_Tunes_Dude (Mar 1, 2005)

Someone recently asked about video clips.
Here is a little one for Kenny Gonzalez that is a fair shake at how he moves.
This is showing a small segment of timing from within one of his self defense moves.

http://moretunesdude.serveftp.net/AM%20Timing.mpg

Kenny will be delivering a seminar in the NY area in a couple weeks.  See attached flyer:

http://moretunesdude.serveftp.net/KaliKenpoSeminarNYMar2005.htm


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## Snake Pliskin (Mar 2, 2005)

I had heard somewhere this guy spent some time with the AKKI. If so, from watching Mr. Mills move on other clips, I can see where he gets his motion. Is he selling this as Kali Kenpo or what exactly? Just wondering what the angle is? Not trying to start anything, please.


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## XtremeJ_AKKI (Mar 2, 2005)

That's basic rhythmatic timing found within AKKI teachings. It in no way originated with Mr. Gonzalez.


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## More_Tunes_Dude (Mar 2, 2005)

Snake - 

Kenny did spend a number of years as a direct student of Mr. Mills and subsequently as a student of Mr. Boswell. He clearly learned a great deal from his prior instructors and frequently talks about those times with great respect and acknowledgement, especially when he delivers seminars. 

Kali Kenpo is a combination primarily of FCS and Kenpo and a few other component parts he picked up on his Journey, which has been over 25 years now. There are many significant creative and original segments to the system, and new ways to use old moves which are eye opening.

XtremeJ - Apparently touched a nerve eh? I am humbly sorry.  There was never any intent to claim originality to rhythmatic timing and if you read that from the post, all due apologies. That's clearly from Mr. Mills with all due credit, as noted above. The application of those timing drills, however, may be somewhat different than what you are used to as Kenny has evolved many of the things he has learned in FCS, Kenpo, Systema, etc... This few seconds clip is not meant to be an unabridged encyclopedia of his movement - far from it. I'll try and get a few more clips of him over time which can give a little more of a taste. Maybe/hopefully there will be some footage from the seminar he is doing this month.


You absolutely should make a fair evaluative opinion of his movement, skills, originality, and application - after you have seen him in person sometime in the last couple years. He and Kali Kenpo are evolving rapidly. Come on by to a seminar or swing by Tampa sometime, classes are always open to Kenpoists visiting the area - and yes, that's an open invitation! Always good to meet and work out with quality Kenpoist. 

See why people are inviting him to do seminars and why some very, very long term kenpoists spend time with him.

Cheers!


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## XtremeJ_AKKI (Mar 2, 2005)

More_Tunes_Dude said:
			
		

> XtremeJ - Apparently touched a nerve eh? I am humbly sorry.  There was never any intent to claim originality to rhythmatic timing and if you read that from the post, all due apologies.[color]




I merely stated that it was an AKKI concept being demonstrated. In no way did I choose words which would convey an emotional response, ergo I do not understand how you percieve that my ' nerve ' has been touched.


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## Fastmover (Mar 2, 2005)

Just curious as to what Mr. Gonzales rank in Kenpo is and where got it???


Thanks


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## XtremeJ_AKKI (Mar 2, 2005)

Fastmover said:
			
		

> Just curious as to what Mr. Gonzales rank in Kenpo is and where got it???
> 
> 
> Thanks



To my knowledge, he was a 1st when he left the AKKI about three years back. He was a 5th within a year afterward.


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## kennyg (Mar 3, 2005)

Well, Well, the akki gang strikes again, My rank is what it is, why don't you call my current instructors; they have no complaint on my rank. They promoted me; call Ron Boswell or Ray Dionaldo. Mr. Boswell who was promoted to 6th by Paul mills, has good judgment and is of sound mind to promote who he feels deserves it, I think you should call him. Anyone who has that question burning in them should call. You can also come to Tampa or e-mail me or call.


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## Fastmover (Mar 3, 2005)

Whoops hold on there for a second. You can not blame an entire association for a post on the forum. Im simply an individual asking about rank, nothing more.  No need to get upset.

So is it true that you were a 1st black when you left the akki 3 years ago.........now your a 5th?


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## XtremeJ_AKKI (Mar 3, 2005)

kennyg said:
			
		

> Well, Well, the akki gang strikes again, My rank is what it is, why don't you call my current instructors; they have no complaint on my rank. They promoted me; call Ron Boswell or Ray Dionaldo. Mr. Boswell who was promoted to 6th by Paul mills, has good judgment and is of sound mind to promote who he feels deserves it, I think you should call him. Anyone who has that question burning in them should call. You can also come to Tampa or e-mail me or call.



 Mr. Gonzalez,

 Firstly, you can stop with the generalization; the AKKI is not responsible for my actions or comments, only I am. I do not speak on their behalf, but my own. 

 Secondly, I merely answered a question; I in now way criticized nor questioned your rank, which is why I'm left wondering just why you're so defensive of it. 

 And third, we have spoken on the phone before, which I won't get into here on a public forum, out of respect for both Mr. Parker's pledges ( which I've undertaken ) and a fellow black belt. 

-Jay Wilson
AKKI, Mississippi


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## MJS (Mar 3, 2005)

Guys, rather than taking shots at each other, lets try to stay focused on the topic, which is the video clip.

Mike


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## More_Tunes_Dude (Mar 4, 2005)

Hi!

So To the original point of the video in the first place  motion (Thanks MJS!)



I posted something to illustrate movement and examples of what Kenny is up to.  I will try and get some more clips that are perhaps more illustrative of movement and action.



Rather than do the judge a book by its cover routine, I will see if I cant provide some more actual data on which to base an opinion.  Ive worked with many instructors in my 24 years, in and out of Kenpo.  Ive had 5 Kenpo instructors over the last dozen+ years in 4 states.  I select an instructor based on what they _have_ to teach, what they _can_ teach, and how well they can apply what they know.  I seek quality not wrapping paper, and this package is consistent.  



Ill try and get some more video examples for your viewing pleasure.



Cheers!


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## Brother John (Mar 4, 2005)

More_Tunes_Dude said:
			
		

> XtremeJ - Apparently touched a nerve eh? I am humbly sorry.  There was never any intent to claim originality to rhythmatic timing and if you read that from the post, all due apologies. That's clearly from Mr. Mills
> Cheers!




Hey Dude
I was curious, you used the words "rhythmatic timing", I'd never heard this turn of phrase. Is that the same thing as rhythmic timing or is there a difference at all?? Just wondering. Like I said, I'm very familiar with the basic timing pattern shown here... it's one of the first learned in the AKKI. Just wondering if there's something distinctive about 'rhythmatic' timing. 
thanks

I look forward to viewing further videos.
Your Brother
John


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## More_Tunes_Dude (Mar 4, 2005)

Brother John - Please direct that question to XtremeJ - I did a literal cut-and-paste from his post earlier in the thread.  He brought it up, and I simply commented on no claims related to that...


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## Brother John (Mar 4, 2005)

More_Tunes_Dude said:
			
		

> Brother John - Please direct that question to XtremeJ - I did a literal cut-and-paste from his post earlier in the thread.  He brought it up, and I simply commented on no claims related to that...


oh...that's not an issue in my mind. When I met Kenny here in the land of Oz he gave credit where due as far as his Kenpo knowledge/ability. I don't have any issue with that really, I know where it came from. I just wanted to know if the study of rhythmatic timing and the study of rhythmic timing were the same thing or if Kenny had changed something to require a slight change in the term. I didn't mean to touch any _sore spots_, _sorry_.
In all honesty, there may be no difference. I was just wanting to know. 
For instance: IF you go here http://www.akki.com/indexs/indexpage.htm to the AKKI web-page and click on the link "About Us", you'll see it written several times as "rhythmic timing" and "rhythmic timing patterns".
Looks like a difference, just wanted to see what it was.

XtremeJ-
Hey Bro, what's shakin?

So is he right? Can you help me understand the difference between "rhythmatic" and "rhythmic" timing??
I don't understand exactly why you'd be the person I should ask, but Dude tends to think so. 
Hey, whatever works.


Yall have a good one! (_it's a Great day here in Kansas!!! Sun is shining, birds are singing.... hope things are good for you too, wherever you are!!_ )
Your Brother
John


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## XtremeJ_AKKI (Mar 4, 2005)

Bro John,

Same thing, dude, I've heard both terms used. Sorry for the confusion.

Drop me an email sometime ( sifujason@yahoo.com ).

-J


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## More_Tunes_Dude (Mar 4, 2005)

Brother John said:
			
		

> I just wanted to know if the study of rhythmatic timing and the study of rhythmic timing were the same thing or if Kenny had changed something to require a slight change in the term. I didn't mean to touch any _sore spots_, _sorry_.
> 
> I don't understand exactly why you'd be the person I should ask, but Dude tends to think so.
> Hey, whatever works.


no sore spots man - i found it curious myself, and i can't answer it... personally i had never heard the term rhythmatic timing before until XtremeJ used it. I assumed it was the same, but hey - i'll stick things i know. like you, not knowing the difference, i simply chose his words and declined originality from there. the m-w dictionary doesn't even have the term. not knowing, and assuming it was probably a typo, i simply redirected you to the original author. Always best to go straight to source of the question, isn't it?

have an awesome day Bro'...


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## Brother John (Mar 4, 2005)

ah....
Gotcha!
I didn't know that My brother ExtremeJ had used the term first. I just noticed it when you used it. Thought it might just be a misunderstanding. My thinking was that as Kenny has tried to build from the knowledge he got from the AKKI maybe he'd altered some wording.
Thanks, sorry for any confusion.


> have an awesome day Bro'...


You too man. 
I'm taking some boys fishing this afternoon at the lake!!
That's always good. 
"A bad day fishing is Always better than a good day at the office."

Your Brother
John


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## Snake Pliskin (Mar 6, 2005)

The following was posted today on kenponet. I thought it salient for this discussion. It sounds as if Kenny has no black belt in American Kenpo at all unless he earned one with the WKKA. It's really sad when individuals such as this have to misrepresent themselves so grossly as to make it so they can practically never have any respect amonst their peers and students. 



"Kenny Gonzalez was introduced to Kenpo by myself and another person who's name is Ed Cabrera from tampa, Florida. His original instructor was Edwin "Papo"Pagan from Pennsylvania. Kenny recieved his Black belt under Sensei Pagan but then moved to the sunny state of Florida.
His Black Belt was under the study of Moo-Duk-Kwan which is a 
Korean syle. When he wanted to join into the Kenpo system I hooked him up with Joe Polanzo's WKKA organization. That is how he got started. As for being with Paul Mills and his organization
the fact is clear. Mr.Mills allowed him to join his organization but like normal Kenny attended a few seminars or camps and became friends with Paul Mills student Ron Boswell. Kenny has attended a few of my seminars as I had a Black Belt who owned a school in Tampa and he came to the school owned by Ed Cabrera at that time and attended maybe 2 total. 
About 2 years ago Kenny,Ron Boswell, and Larry Kongaika (IKKA)
were down in Miami having a seminar that I supported with some of my students and at that time Kenny was wearing a 5th Black belt. Well a few days later he posted something on this forum thanking me for coming and Paul Mills read it and then immediately called me. He said,Sean...This is Paul Mills. I said hello Paul long time no hear. He was friendly and very pleasant in speaking to me. He was calling to say he just wanted me to know he was not the person who awarded Kenny Gonzalez a 5th degree and wanted it to be said from the horses mouth. He said Kenny did train with him but only on a few occassions. I said honestly Mr.Mills who cares and I aprreciate the phone call. He said well Sean it was important for me to call you knowing you were at the event with Kenny and it has gotten back to him that Kenny was telling people I(Paul Mills) gave him the rank. I said I understood.
Kenny is and has talent thats not in dispute here. Whats wrong is sporting a rank in the Kenpo Community when most of us know the person real status. Kenny also made an attempt to join Grandmaster Mike Pick's UKF but was kicked out and that I know because Vinny Anfuso was the man who asked Kenny for the return of there patches he had of theirs.
What Kenny needs to learn about Kenpo and the proticol is if you want to be a student of Kenpo then get accepted by a Kenpo teacher.Not attend a few seminars or play rabbit and bounce around so much.
His concept of Kali/Kenpo/systema is a good blend and I wish him luck in his journey.But on 2 occasions he was invited to train again with us, as we had Mr.Pick coming into town.He did the typical no show.
I close by saying Kenny means well but just went about it wrong folks.He's not a trouble maker by nature just a little impatient at times. As for his Kenpo, never saw him do anything other than talk alot. If your immpressed go for it,other wise
don't sweat it. 
Good Day...
Sean kelley"


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## Brother John (Mar 7, 2005)

Sean Kelley is a big, reputable name in the Kenpo world also.
Interesting information there!


Your Brother
John


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## Bill Lear (Mar 7, 2005)

Brother John,

Did Kenny Gonzalez achieve any kind of promotion or rank while he was involved with the A.K.K.I.?


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## Brother John (Mar 7, 2005)

Bill Lear said:
			
		

> Brother John,
> 
> Did Kenny Gonzalez achieve any kind of promotion or rank while he was involved with the A.K.K.I.?


Hey Mr. Lear-
*No.*
It's my understanding that he was "_recognized_" as a Kenpo Black Belt, I think from the WKKA, he was shown a good deal of attention and generousity from Mr. Mills and the seniors in the association, and then he left abruptly. I don't know all of the details... I'm no "_High-up Mucky-Muck_" in the AKKI...just one enthusiastic member in the throng. But from my sources, the way things went down..... *just wasn't right.* It's a shame really. He'd been "_Recognized_" like I said, but hadn't tested for an AKKI rank. He left well before some of the finer changes and innovations were put in place and disseminated to the rest of the association. Lots of good things have been going on, but he missed out because he didn't stick around. The changes and innovations are still being put in place, to great effect. He's missing them too now. 
His loss.   

Your Brother
John


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## Brother John (Mar 7, 2005)

Further up the thread "Snake Pliskin" cut and pasted on this subject from www.KenpoNet.Com
I'll do the same, as Mr. Kelley had given a follow up/clarification that is relevant to the one already given.
Mr. Kelley gave it the heading of 





> NO rank in Kenpo





> I have to say that Kenny Assumed the Rank since he was allowed to join the WKKA. Like even Grandmaster Parker's organization the IKKA they would have a certificate that recognized a persons rank from their particular backround. This reminds me of another person who in Kentucky told a Kenpo senior he lost all his previous certificates and was getting ready to open a school and needed a certificate of rank to prove to the Landlord he was legitimate to teach Karate. So in feeling sorry for the guy a diploma was made up for him and it was signed by the Kenpo senior giving the illusion it was a Kenpo Black Belt dipoma.
> Trust me this did not go over to well by my students who witnessed this as well as knew the guy recieving the rank was no more than a ornage belt level person.
> This topic was discussed with Mr. Gonzalez from the very beginning since him and I had words about throwing out names at the wrong point and time. He knows and should clearly remember the conversation I had with him about the diploma he recieved from the WKKA was no more than a certificate of acceptance in the WKKA and that was probably over 10 years now.
> As far as a 4th degree in one style and a 5th degree in a other style, this is clear to me that he has not studied any art for any length of time and concludes his ranking based on how many styles he joins into.
> ...



For your consideration.
Your Brother
John


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## Bill Lear (Mar 7, 2005)

Brother John said:
			
		

> Hey Mr. Lear-
> *No.*
> It's my understanding that he was "_recognized_" as a Kenpo Black Belt, I think from the WKKA, he was shown a good deal of attention and generousity from Mr. Mills and the seniors in the association, and then he left abruptly. I don't know all of the details... I'm no "_High-up Mucky-Muck_" in the AKKI...just one enthusiastic member in the throng. But from my sources, the way things went down..... *just wasn't right.* It's a shame really. He'd been "_Recognized_" like I said, but hadn't tested for an AKKI rank. He left well before some of the finer changes and innovations were put in place and disseminated to the rest of the association. Lots of good things have been going on, but he missed out because he didn't stick around. The changes and innovations are still being put in place, to great effect. He's missing them too now.
> His loss.
> ...



It's my understanding that Mr. Kenny Gonzalez is under Mr. Ron Boswell. Did Mr. Boswell award him the rank that he is wearing now?

I haven't seen anything documenting Mr. Gonzalez as recieving a 5th Degree Black Belt in the A.K.K.I., so where's the beef? (I'm not trying to stir anything up. I'm just trying to understand where you're coming from.)

It never feels right when someone leaves an association, organization, or affiliation of any kind. I remember the aftermath of Mr. Mills' departure from the I.K.K.A., which had a significant impact on me to say the least (even though I didn't know him personally). Actually, it broke the hearts of quite a few people.

Mr. Gonzalez has titled his system Kali-Kenpo. So I operate under the impression that it's a combination of Kali and Kenpo. I can appreciate his honesty. He's not changing it and calling it Ed Parker's American Kenpo. He's just doing his own thing. At least that's my impression.

:asian:


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## Fastmover (Mar 7, 2005)

Bill Lear said:
			
		

> It's my understanding that Mr. Kenny Gonzalez is under Mr. Ron Boswell. Did Mr. Boswell award him the rank that he is wearing now?
> 
> I haven't seen anything documenting Mr. Gonzalez as recieving a 5th Degree Black Belt in the A.K.K.I., so where's the beef? (I'm not trying to stir anything up. I'm just trying to understand where you're coming from.)
> 
> ...



I wasnt going to comment anymore on this subject but I felt I needed to add some additional information. Im sure you will understand as your group recently went through something similar with Bob Jones.

Personally I have no beef with Mr. Gonzales and certainly he has the right to leave his instructor and do his own thing. I too have had to make this decision in the past myself. Even Mr. Parker did this himself so it would be wrong for anyone to judge another for leaving their instructor and doing their own thing. 

First I do know that Mr. Gonzales never was promoted to Black Belt by Mr. Mills. I would know this because I have sat on every testing board for the last ten years. When Ron Boswell left the association, Mr. Gonzales also considered to leave himself. Before doing so however, he approached Mr. Mills and asked to be promoted; to 3rd black I believe. If he were promoted he would not leave the AKKI. 

Ive always known that when it comes to promotion prodical, out of respect one should NEVER  ask/ demand to be promoted. 

So as a result since Mr. Gonzales was not promoted, he decide to leave the association and go with Ron Boswell. Mr. Gonzales is now a 5th black belt and designing his own system.

This is my understanding.


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## Bob Hubbard (Mar 7, 2005)

*Admin Note:*

  Thread Locked pending review by Operations Admin & Staff.


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## Seig (Mar 8, 2005)

This thread will remain closed and if the topic is brought up again the members will be dealt with. 

Here are the facts as I see them:
1.) People are posting Sean Kelly's posts from another board.
2.)If Sean Kelly has something to say, he has a membership here, he can come here and say it.
3.) If he needs help logging in, that is why we have a Technical Administrator.
4.) Kenny Gonzales has made his statement about his rank, if you question it, get on the phone to him or the people he mentioned.
5.) Discussion over.
Seig 
MT Ops Admin


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