# Need some ideas



## BTittel (Feb 19, 2016)

This little town I live in has NO martial arts schools, what are some ideas to obtain *proper *training?
Would taking to some ex-mma fighters be an acceptable route to try?


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## kuniggety (Feb 19, 2016)

Are you willing to travel some? How far are you from Topeka? I looked it up and there's a handful of schools there.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Feb 19, 2016)

whats your zip code? There are plenty of schools/groups that just dont advertise for whatever reason. It's possible someone here knows someone in the area who teaches.


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## BTittel (Feb 19, 2016)

kuniggety said:


> Are you willing to travel some? How far are you from Topeka? I looked it up and there's a handful of schools there.



I'm 314 miles from Topeka, I don't know of anything within driving distance.


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## BTittel (Feb 19, 2016)

kempodisciple said:


> whats your zip code? There are plenty of schools/groups that just dont advertise for whatever reason. It's possible someone here knows someone in the area who teaches.



I'm in Colby, KS (67701)


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Feb 19, 2016)

Oh wow, that is far out there. I have nothing, sorry


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## BTittel (Feb 19, 2016)

kempodisciple said:


> Oh wow, that is far out there. I have nothing, sorry



Yeah, closest thing that I've found is over 100 miles away. Except an Aikido School,  but I'm not impressed with its practical applications.


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## kuniggety (Feb 19, 2016)

Doing a quick search, I found an ATA Tae Kwon Do school in Goodland, KS... ~40 min drive according to Google maps.
GAC | Activity - Taekwondo


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## BTittel (Feb 19, 2016)

kuniggety said:


> Doing a quick search, I found an ATA Tae Kwon Do school in Goodland, KS... ~40 min drive according to Google maps.
> GAC | Activity - Taekwondo



I was told they shut that one down, when Zjeda's closed. 
I'll look into it though.  Thanks!


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## BTittel (Feb 19, 2016)

BTittel said:


> I was told they shut that one down, when Zjeda's closed.
> I'll look into it though.  Thanks!




I just looked for it on Google and found nothing about Goodland having anything. 
MAP


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Feb 19, 2016)

Alternatively, you can always try to start up a class. I'm currently reading BryceSPQR's book on how to start a school/club/etc. and he lays out very clearly what you need to do. If you have 20 years of practicing, may be worth giving it a try.
BryceSPQR if you want to message him about it.


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## Bill Mattocks (Feb 19, 2016)

First, I'm not sure I would discount akido.

Second, don't forget boxing. Find out if the local high school has a wrestling team, meaning it has a wrestling coach.

Third, do other stuff like skipping rope and shadow boxing.

Fourth, get out of town.


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## BTittel (Feb 19, 2016)

kempodisciple said:


> Alternatively, you can always try to start up a class. I'm currently reading BryceSPQR's book on how to start one and he lays out very directly what you need to do. If you have 20 years of teaching, may be worth giving it a try.
> BryceSPQR if you want to message him about it.



Honestly, I need to get anyone willing to come up here and help teach me so I can, but do it proper, where people aren't at risk. But when I get the training I would LOVE to start a school.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Feb 19, 2016)

BTittel said:


> Honestly, I need to get anyone willing to come up here and help teach me so I can, but do it proper, where people aren't at risk. But when I get the training I would LOVE to start a school.


I find it tough to believe that you've been practicing for 20 years and dont know enough to teach, at least enough to teach the basics while you attempt to continue your training. I've seen people with less years alive than your years of experience teach effectively.
Unless you mean training on how to properly teach, in which case attempting it is a good way to learn that. Just be upfront with your students and inform them that you don't have experience teaching your MA.


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## BTittel (Feb 19, 2016)

Bill Mattocks said:


> First, I'm not sure I would discount akido.
> 
> Second, don't forget boxing. Find out if the local high school has a wrestling team, meaning it has a wrestling coach.
> 
> ...



I have a ton of respect for the art of Aikido, don't let my comment confuse you.  But, in my experience, (what little I do have, bar fights, etc.) Aikido had limited practical application until higher Dans.  
It's too difficult to use such fine motor skills when in the heat of the moment.


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## BTittel (Feb 19, 2016)

kempodisciple said:


> I find it tough to believe that you've been practicing for 20 years and dont know enough to teach, at least enough to teach the basics while you attempt to continue your training. I've seen people with less years alive than your years of experience teach effectively.
> Unless you mean training on how to properly teach, in which case attempting it is a good way to learn that. Just be upfront with your students and inform them that you don't have experience teaching your MA.



Is a confidence thing. And I have taught a few people. I just don't have the confidence because I have next to no traditional training, and always assumed I needed that to start an actual school


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Feb 19, 2016)

BTittel said:


> Is a confidence thing.


Well, that's another thing that won't get fixed until you get experience doing it  Try, be upfront, and be willing to fail and try again. Just make sure you don't permanently injure your students in the process.


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## BTittel (Feb 19, 2016)

kempodisciple said:


> Well, that's another thing that won't get fixed until you get experience doing it  Try, be upfront, and be willing to fail and try again. Just make sure you don't permanently injure your students in the process.



This is true.  Can't learn if I don't try I guess. Thanks for that!


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## kuniggety (Feb 19, 2016)

BTittel said:


> I just looked for it on Google and found nothing about Goodland having anything.
> MAP



If you click on the link I posted, it's taught inside of a community center. By just doing a search for martial arts schools in google maps you're not going to get everything.

If you're into BJJ you can start a Gracie Garage or a 10th Planet hot box.


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## BTittel (Feb 19, 2016)

I'm sorry,  I didn't see you had a link to it.  I have the page open so I'm going to read up on it.


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## Bill Mattocks (Feb 20, 2016)

BTittel said:


> I have a ton of respect for the art of Aikido, don't let my comment confuse you.  But, in my experience, (what little I do have, bar fights, etc.) Aikido had limited practical application until higher Dans.
> It's too difficult to use such fine motor skills when in the heat of the moment.



So devote the time and effort necessary. You sound like someone who seeks instant gratification. There is far more to martial arts than being able to punch one's way out of a bar fight with a modicum of training. If that's all you want, you'll be missing a lot, like 90% of what martial arts is.

But given what you seem to be describing, find a boxer and take private lessons. You will be able to effectively defend yourself in short order.


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## Bill Mattocks (Feb 20, 2016)

BTittel said:


> Is a confidence thing. And I have taught a few people. I just don't have the confidence because I have next to no traditional training, and always assumed I needed that to start an actual school


 Anyone can start a mcdojo. But don't do it. A club is another thing entirely, quite ok to have all beginners, but you will need to find some proper instruction to feed good training.


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## BTittel (Feb 20, 2016)

Bill Mattocks said:


> So devote the time and effort necessary. You sound like someone who seeks instant gratification. There is far more to martial arts than being able to punch one's way out of a bar fight with a modicum of training. If that's all you want, you'll be missing a lot, like 90% of what martial arts is.
> 
> But given what you seem to be describing, find a boxer and take private lessons. You will be able to effectively defend yourself in short order.



And you seem quite presumptuous.  I've spoke with 4 mma fighters and have all told me that in a life or death situation aikido will get you killed every time. 
Unless you have 60+ years to devote.  I do not, but found two fighters who are going to help me. So your semi offensive remark is null. But thanks?


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## Bill Mattocks (Feb 20, 2016)

BTittel said:


> And you seem quite presumptuous.  I've spoke with 4 mma fighters and have all told me that in a life or death situation aikido will get you killed every time.
> Unless you have 60+ years to devote.  I do not, but found two fighters who are going to help me. So your semi offensive remark is null. But thanks?


 
You have no idea how ridiculous you sound to real martial artists right now. Trust me, eyes are rolling, coffee is being snorted through noses.

I meant no offense, but I'm allowed to presume a little, I've been through the fire. You haven't. I wish you the best of luck, I once had all the answers as well. Life adjusted my attitude and it was...painful. Good for you, choosing the long painful route like I did.


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## Pittsburgh Arnis (Feb 20, 2016)

BTittel said:


> This little town I live in has NO martial arts schools, what are some ideas to obtain *proper *training?
> Would taking to some ex-mma fighters be an acceptable route to try?


Here is a couple ideas:
1) ask the local high school wrestling coach. Maybe he could offer you some training or give suggestions.
2) contact the local VFW, Legion, or police department and ask about self defense classes.


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## ShawnP (Feb 20, 2016)

LOL i like your attitude Bill Mattocks, sounds like you've been around the block a few (hundred) times.

BTittle, Just a suggestion but Have you searched to see if anyone does online (Skype) training? we do live in the information age.


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## BTittel (Feb 20, 2016)

Sorry for asking some asinine questions.  I'll take my leave.


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## JowGaWolf (Feb 20, 2016)

Bill Mattocks said:


> You have no idea how ridiculous you sound to real martial artists right now. Trust me, eyes are rolling, coffee is being snorted through noses.
> 
> I meant no offense, but I'm allowed to presume a little, I've been through the fire. You haven't. I wish you the best of luck, I once had all the answers as well. Life adjusted my attitude and it was...painful. Good for you, choosing the long painful route like I did.


Are you telling me that you don't believe in the MMA guys?? The same guys that pick and mixes stuff from traditional martials?  Saaaay Whaaat!!! lol.


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## JowGaWolf (Feb 20, 2016)

BTittel said:


> Sorry for asking some asinine questions.  I'll take my leave.


If you are still here then my Sifu might be willing to teach you a few things.  He's working on some ideas with distant learning.  You can contact him through here Jow Ga Kung Fu Academy
Ask him if he's doing distant learning.  He may or may not try to teach you as he's gotten really picky these days.


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## Bill Mattocks (Feb 20, 2016)

JowGaWolf said:


> Are you telling me that you don't believe in the MMA guys?? The same guys that pick and mixes stuff from traditional martials?  Saaaay Whaaat!!! lol.



Four MMA guys told him he'd have to train until he's 60 to be able to make Akido work. Yeah, seems legit. What was I thinking?


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## jks9199 (Feb 20, 2016)

BTittel said:


> And you seem quite presumptuous.  I've spoke with 4 mma fighters and have all told me that in a life or death situation aikido will get you killed every time.
> Unless you have 60+ years to devote.  I do not, but found two fighters who are going to help me. So your semi offensive remark is null. But thanks?


And they know this based on their lengthy record of life or death battles?

Aikido CAN be a very effective tool for self defense -- if it's trained with that goal in mind.  Which means taking it outside the pretty environment of the dojo, forcing yourself to use it under pressure, and seeking to actually understand the techniques and thier use rather than blindly trusting to repetition of the kata.

Or it can be a granola powered hippy "harmony dance"...


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## Dirty Dog (Feb 21, 2016)

BTittel said:


> And you seem quite presumptuous.  I've spoke with 4 mma fighters and have all told me that in a life or death situation aikido will get you killed every time.
> Unless you have 60+ years to devote.  I do not, but found two fighters who are going to help me. So your semi offensive remark is null. But thanks?



And how much actual training and experience do these people have with Aikido?
None?

Incidentally, I'm amazed that you can find so many "ex-MMA fighters" in a town with, from what you've said, no actual schools.


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## Chris Parker (Feb 21, 2016)

BTittel said:


> This little town I live in has NO martial arts schools, what are some ideas to obtain *proper *training?



Frankly, move. If there isn't any option to actually receive training where you are, you need to go to where the training is available. To think anything else is to be delusional, and suffer from an entitlement complex… of which far too many young people today do already.

This, frankly, is the problem with this "information age"… it gives people the impression that they should be able to have anything they want when and where they have want them to be, regardless of the reality… 



BTittel said:


> Would taking to some ex-mma fighters be an acceptable route to try?



Acceptable to who? For what? What is your actual aim?



kempodisciple said:


> Alternatively, you can always try to start up a class. I'm currently reading BryceSPQR's book on how to start a school/club/etc. and he lays out very clearly what you need to do. If you have 20 years of practicing, may be worth giving it a try.
> BryceSPQR if you want to message him about it.



Honestly, I have some issues with this advice… mainly in that, as far as I can tell, while the OP claims 20 years of "experience", that experience seems to be largely non-existent (I am waiting to hear clarification on that… but the idea is supported by his comments here and in other threads). Additionally, even if it has some basis, we don't know what his experience is in (art/system-wise)… who knows if he's able to teach it? 



BTittel said:


> Honestly, I need to get anyone willing to come up here and help teach me so I can, but do it proper, where people aren't at risk. But when I get the training I would LOVE to start a school.



Start a school of what? Get people to teach you what? "Martial arts" aren't just one thing… they are wildly different in many ways… and just because you have someone teaching you aspects of one doesn't mean you have any real knowledge or grasp of anything else.



BTittel said:


> I have a ton of respect for the art of Aikido, don't let my comment confuse you.  But, in my experience, (what little I do have, bar fights, etc.) Aikido had limited practical application until higher Dans.
> It's too difficult to use such fine motor skills when in the heat of the moment.



Who says it's fine motor? Some Aikido is quite gross motor, when you get down to it… but of course, here we again start to look at the minimalist experience you have had with regard to martial arts… 



BTittel said:


> Is a confidence thing. And I have taught a few people. I just don't have the confidence because I have next to no traditional training, and always assumed I needed that to start an actual school



"Little to no traditional training"… "what little (experience) I do have, bar fights etc"… 

So what exactly is this 20 years you're claiming?



BTittel said:


> This is true.  Can't learn if I don't try I guess. Thanks for that!



Can't learn if you don't do. And so far, you haven't "done" martial arts, from the looks of things.



BTittel said:


> And you seem quite presumptuous.  I've spoke with 4 mma fighters and have all told me that in a life or death situation aikido will get you killed every time.
> Unless you have 60+ years to devote.  I do not, but found two fighters who are going to help me. So your semi offensive remark is null. But thanks?



Ha! MMA fights are nothing like "life or death", so how the hell would they know? What experience do they have with Aikido in life and death situations? Who says you need 60 years to be able perform Aikido in a situation? 

But most importantly, you have found two "fighters" who are going to help you… help you do what? What are you actually going to be learning from them? Generic fighting skills and martial arts are two rather different things, you know… I mean, if you wanted to learn TKD specifically, how does an MMA guy help? Or if you wanted to learn the intricacies of Hsing-I? Or Iaido? Or, well, anything to do with any form of martial art other than the competitive sport of MMA?


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## BTittel (Mar 4, 2016)

I'll leave the forum with this: my 20 years of "experience" is talking to people, getting into stupid fights and learning from various friends who were ex military or trained tradionally/mma, etc. (From. When I lived in other places), and practicing Tai Chi.
And LOTS of BOOK STUDYING, I misspoke and meant (truthfully) studying and wrote experience not thinking that I would burned at the stake for heresey.
(I love how "forgiving" this forum is when mistakes are made--"burn that lying piece of $#it!"). 
NEVER did I say I had extensive experience, but I must have implied it, with my error, but experience is experience, to whatever degree.
I want to be trained tradionally but not if the instructors are as quick to judge and mock for my simple error, as has happened to me here. I'm all for criticism, as long as it's productive, not just being a d*ck.


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## BTittel (Mar 4, 2016)

Bill Mattocks,
Obviously I'm looking for tools to properly learn the martial arts, so why would you prepresume I am claiming to be a master of any kind?
If you see I'm obviously not trained well, why not try to support my quest for knowledge instead of trying to destroy what little confidence I have, and turn me away from the arts and despise the jerks that I'm sure run EVERY school in the world now--Based on this forum as my education of the kind of people who practice martial arts.  I'm going to get destroyed for this, I understand.
All I'm saying is try to take a softer approach to your replies, as you don't know everyone's story, I'm sorry to call you out here but needed to say my piece before leaving the group.
I would have liked to had the opportunity to get to know you, and learn from you, but you obviously just think I'm a disgrace to the martial arts, and shouldn't be allowed to learn and ask questions....I'm guessing, correct me if I'm wrong, please!


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## BTittel (Mar 4, 2016)

I want to apologize to you all.  I realize I sounded like a know-it-all, and very arrogant.  Please understand that's not me.   I didn't know it sounded the way it did (I was sick, so it all sounded to me a lot different than how you all read it)
I don't want to make excuses,  I'm taking full responsibility for my, let's be honest, immature behavior. I hope you can look past my moment.
Thanks everyone,  for everything!


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## drop bear (Mar 4, 2016)




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## drop bear (Mar 4, 2016)

BTittel said:


> I'll leave the forum with this: my 20 years of "experience" is talking to people, getting into stupid fights and learning from various friends who were ex military or trained tradionally/mma, etc. (From. When I lived in other places), and practicing Tai Chi.
> And LOTS of BOOK STUDYING, I misspoke and meant (truthfully) studying and wrote experience not thinking that I would burned at the stake for heresey.
> (I love how "forgiving" this forum is when mistakes are made--"burn that lying piece of $#it!").
> NEVER did I say I had extensive experience, but I must have implied it, with my error, but experience is experience, to whatever degree.
> I want to be trained tradionally but not if the instructors are as quick to judge and mock for my simple error, as has happened to me here. I'm all for criticism, as long as it's productive, not just being a d*ck.



We are all about criticism and judgement. And we like to dog pile the new guy.

No idea why. It happens every time someone has an original thought.


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## BTittel (Mar 4, 2016)

Is that you all kicking some sense into me?  Lol


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## BTittel (Mar 4, 2016)

Oh!  So this is my kind of place: get criticized randomly and piled on ! 
Can I fight back?  lol

Well thanks for the warm welcome here to MT!


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## drop bear (Mar 4, 2016)

BTittel said:


> Oh!  So this is my kind of place: get criticized randomly and piled on !
> Can I fight back?  lol
> 
> Well thanks for the warm welcome here to MT!



Of course you can fight back. You win when you get accused of being the bjj Mafia.

How good are these mma guys? I mean you would have to be able to learn something off them.


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## BTittel (Mar 4, 2016)

The mma buddies of mine?
Two were in for 4 years, the other on is still on--around 6 years, the last had 2 or 3 (don't know him real well yet).  The other three are pretty good, and can teach me bjj if I'm willing to put up with the brutality, lol.


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## drop bear (Mar 4, 2016)

BTittel said:


> The mma buddies of mine?
> Two were in for 4 years the other on is still in around 6 years the last had 2 or 3 (don't know him real well yet.  The other three are pretty good, and can teach me bjj if I'm willing to put up with the brutality, lol.



That will work. Look a good fundamental base in anything won't hurt.

What style do you want to do?


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## BTittel (Mar 4, 2016)

drop bear said:


> That will work. Look a good fundamental base in anything won't hurt.
> 
> What style do you want to do?




BJJ now, but I want to learn everything I can, whatever I get a chance to.
I want to Learn Krav at some point for sure tho.
And I really do want to spend more time in Aikido.  I loved it when I was leaning it.


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## drop bear (Mar 4, 2016)

BTittel said:


> BJJ now, but I want to learn everything I can, whatever I get a chance to.
> I want to Learn Krav at some point for sure tho.
> And I really do want to spend more time in Aikido.  I loved it when I was leaning it.



Getting in what you can at the moment seems the best option.


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## drop bear (Mar 4, 2016)

Double post.


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## marques (Mar 5, 2016)

One possibility is:
1. Go to seminaires with experts (hard to define...). So you can support some punctual displacements.
2. Find a partner (or more) to train in between seminaires.

PS: Nowadays virtually everyone is ex-mma fighter... You see, in your town there are not even one club, but there are ex-ma fighters.


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## BTittel (Mar 5, 2016)

Yeah, it's sad, but I can at least learn the basics of something and get some kind of start.


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## marques (Mar 5, 2016)

BTittel said:


> Yeah, it's sad, but I can at least learn the basics of something and get some kind of start.


Guessing you're answering to my suggestion...
Just be sure you get the _*proper*_ basics. It can shape your entire martial 'career'.
Learning from someone who had the courage or will to jump into a cage may be, or not, the best kind of start.
Good luck. Try. Ask advice about your potential ex-mma fighter instructors to someone trustable (hard to define...)...


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## WaterGal (Mar 5, 2016)

Marques has a good suggestion there.  I bet you could find a few other people in your area that have done a little martial arts (maybe put up some flyers around town or post something on Facebook) and get a practice group together.  You guys could go to a seminar a couple times a year, maybe get a membership to that online BJJ program one of the Gracie guys does, and then get together once a week in your garage to practice what you've learned.  You'd probably want to drop a couple hundred bucks on some mats and a heavy bag (look on Craigslist for used ones), but I'd think that should be enough to get you started.


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## ShawnP (Mar 5, 2016)

> =  You'd probably want to drop a couple hundred bucks on some mats and a heavy bag (look on Craigslist for used ones), but I'd think that should be enough to get you started.



you cold actually build your own mat/floor pretty cheap, using 2X4, Plywood, scrap carpeting, interlocking foam flooring, and some packing foam. i made one for the Dojo i was renting with another system, it came out awesome and lasted for a few years, even with all the bouncing the kids did on it every night.


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## WaterGal (Mar 5, 2016)

ShawnP said:


> you cold actually build your own mat/floor pretty cheap, using 2X4, Plywood, scrap carpeting, interlocking foam flooring, and some packing foam. i made one for the Dojo i was renting with another system, it came out awesome and lasted for a few years, even with all the bouncing the kids did on it every night.



Huh.  Do you think that would be enough padding for doing grappling?  I was thinking puzzle mats or wrestling mats myself.


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## BTittel (Mar 5, 2016)

The guy teaching bjj has 5 years PROPER training.I trust he can get me the basics)
My dad, brother and I are carpenters (we can engineer  something) and brother and myself are idiots (for testing purposes)  
I think we could do it no problem.
I am going to talk to friends to start a club, if you will. I was planning that for a while. But they are jailers so it's hard to get them together.


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## ShawnP (Mar 5, 2016)

WaterGal said:


> Huh.  Do you think that would be enough padding for doing grappling?  I was thinking puzzle mats or wrestling mats myself.


yes i absolutely do, i have built it and used it, it has sufficient padding and bounce, almost like a gymnastics floor but less bounce.


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## kuniggety (Mar 5, 2016)

BTittel said:


> The guy teaching bjj has 5 years PROPER training.I trust he can get me the basics)
> My dad, brother and I are carpenters (we can engineer  something) and brother and myself are idiots (for testing purposes)
> I think we could do it no problem.
> I am going to talk to friends to start a club, if you will. I was planning that for a while. But they are jailers so it's hard to get them together.


What belt is the BJJ guy? With 5 yrs I'd think he's either a solid blue or a purple. Unless he lived on the matts during his training and then maybe a brown. If he made purple then yeah, he should do just fine for training under for awhile. I'm a blue and have taught a number of classes for beginners.

Like I mentioned on the first page (and WaterGal mentioned), you guys could do the Gracie University curriculum or you can associate with 10th Planet and form a hot box for nogi stuff.


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## JowGaWolf (Mar 5, 2016)

drop bear said:


>


I did this as a kid and end up fracturing my ankle.


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## JR 137 (Mar 5, 2016)

I've heard about Ashihara karate's distance learning program.  Ashihara is a full contact Kyokushin offshoot.  Their founder was one of the most successful Kyokushin instructors before he left.

If you have a few people who are serious about training and will train consistently with you, it may be a good option.

Link:

Distance Education  - Ashihara Karate International - Kaicho Hoosain Narker

Link to thread about it in Kyokushin4life forum:

http://www.kyokushin4life.com/forum...-from-kyokushin/4222-ashihara-online-training

I'm in no way affiliated with Ashihara nor personally know anyone who's done the training I linked to, so I'm not endorsing it, just saying it may be worthwhile to look in to.


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## HW1 (Mar 14, 2016)

BTittel said:


> The guy teaching bjj has 5 years PROPER training.I trust he can get me the basics)
> My dad, brother and I are carpenters (we can engineer  something) and brother and myself are idiots (for testing purposes)
> I think we could do it no problem.
> I am going to talk to friends to start a club, if you will. I was planning that for a while. But they are jailers so it's hard to get them together.



I teach privately in the Kansas City area (about 5 hour drive from you). I have a lifetime experience and been teaching for over 8 years now. If you ever wanna take a drive down here for instruction I can put together a 1 or 2 day seminar for you to train and eventually teach. I teach a combination of traditional and practical applications of Kali/Eskrima, Wing Chun, Silat, and Aikido. I offer group discounts if you bring friends. Thanks and good luck with your path in martial arts.


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