# Kukkiwon Yudanja poomsae



## IcemanSK (Jan 18, 2011)

Very little seems to get mentioned on this boardabout the Kukkiwon yudanja poomsae. So, I thought I'd start a thread. I enjoy them a great & find most of them to be challenging, thought-provoking & a great work out as well. 

The upper rank poomsae (like Cheon Kwon & Han Soo, for example) can show the strength & power of TKD when done by one who can do them well. I wonder why they were designed with such difficult techniques (Cheon Kwon's jump spinning crescent kick. Il Yeo's two jump side kicks) as the highest levels. Since these poomsae were designed for practioners in their 40's on up, it would seem counter-intuitive. One would think that poomsae designed for older practioners would be a bit less physically demanding. 

I'd likeyour thoughts on that, but also, what do you like about these yudanja poomsae? Which is you favorite, & why?


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## ralphmcpherson (Jan 18, 2011)

So far Ive only done koryo and keum gang, and I really like them both. Koryo I loved straight away and is probably my favourite form to this point, it seems very fast and aggressive and feels like a 'fighting' form to me. Probably because of this, I found keum gang very awkward feeling at first because it feels very 'rigid' after a form that seemed to flow so well like koryo. Now though, I have really taken to keum gang and it feels like the logical progression along the way to do a form such as that. When I watch the higher dans do my next forms, I watch in awe, they all look challenging, yet seem to emphasize different elements of the art. I also enjoy the way there are years between gradings, not months, once black belt so you can really learn a form properly and take your time to fully understand it.


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## goingd (Jan 18, 2011)

I've done Koryo, Keumgang, Taebaek and Pyongwon.

What I enjoy about Koryo is its universality. It attempts to cover several ranges of technique while introducing newer, more advanced, and more - I think - thought provoking motion.

Keumgang is an incredibly simple poomsae because of how few movements there are in the form. However, meeting the requirements of the details within the details within the details within that simplicity is what make this a great form for me.

Taebaek uses very different stance transitions than the forms before it. It introduced new techniques like the sweeping block, yet it maintains a particular simplicity.

Pyongwon is very thought provoking for me. It requires greater breath control. The pattern itself is simply a straight line, but all of the motion within that line is circular, so it requires the practitioner to find that balance.

I also always found it peculiar that the highest poomsae involve more advanced kicking. Then again, I have seen some very old masters move more smoothly and with greater precision than some twenty year old Olympians, so perhaps it is to prove a point. That point possibly being that Taekwondo is a constantly forward moving journey.


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## andyjeffries (Jan 19, 2011)

IcemanSK said:


> I'd likeyour thoughts on that, but also, what do you like about these yudanja poomsae? Which is you favorite, & why?



I agree it's weird that the higher level poomsae include more dynamic kicks than the lower level - but they aren't that difficult and as the Kukkiwon DVDs show, there's no reason why older practitioners (of a high grade) can't do them.  I think those techniques are harder than the simple kicks found in the lower poomsae, but when you get more senior your balance/core strength is far above what the juniors have so it's easier to do them.

My favourite is Sipjin, I love all the different movements in there that haven't been done before (the rest of the patterns seem to be incrementally building, but Sipjin has a load of new stuff to learn).  A close second would be Hansoo, I like that it's off at 45 degrees - that really makes people concentrate on direction of stepping rather than facing towards certain walls.  It's a shame we don't teach concepts like that in lower poomsae.

My worst in Jitae (you didn't ask, but hey)... I don't like the assymetry of the pattern and all the fast-slow.  I don't mind some slow movements but it seems like that pattern has more than it's fair share


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## miguksaram (Jan 19, 2011)

I am surprised that Keumgang is the poomsae done before Koryo.  While simplistic in direction and techinque, it is very detailed in execution.  I am not a huge fan of Keumgang but feel that it would be a better 1st dan form since it concentrates in balance, focus and power than that of Koryo.  

Transition-wise from Taeguk Pal-jang I can see why Koryo would be the next logical poomsae.  It is still very similar in execution to that of the Taeguk.   I believe my enjoyment in learning was simply because it was the first black belt form to know.  My overall favorite as of now is Taebaek.  I enjoy the small tension moves followed by some exploding power within the form.


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## IcemanSK (Jan 19, 2011)

I find GM Lee, Kyu-Hyung's Han Soo to be amazing. He demonstrates the power & grace that this poomsae is supposed to have. His is certainly a benchmark of this form for me. 





With Cheon Kwon, I'm still in awe of the performances I saw in Chicago of GM Ahn (I forget his whole name, member of the Korean poomsae team) & MT's own MSUTKD at the pre-battle before the Egyptian World Championships. Sadly, I don't have video of that one.
Cheon Kwon, IMO, takes a huge amount of athleticism. Especially when one considers that it's the 7th Dan poomsae. My hat's off to those who make it look easy at any age.


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## puunui (Jan 19, 2011)

IcemanSK said:


> Very little seems to get mentioned on this boardabout the Kukkiwon yudanja poomsae. So, I thought I'd start a thread.




One of my Kukkiwon high dan thesis was an explanation of the Kukkiwon Yudanja poomsae. Each poomsae has a different specific meaning. The Yudanja poomsae are unique in that they explain the journey taekwondoin engage in. It is broken up into three sets of three poomsae, one set each for the body, mind and spirit.


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## DMcHenry (Jan 19, 2011)

Glenn, could/would you mind sharing that with us?


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## andyjeffries (Jan 19, 2011)

DMcHenry said:


> Glenn, could/would you mind sharing that with us?



Glenn posted them to the Taekwondo-net mailing list over a period of time.  I compiled them in to a PDF for personal interest/use.  If he's happy with me doing it, I don't mind making that PDF publicly available?  If he doesn't want me to, then that's his call to make.


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## puunui (Jan 19, 2011)

andyjeffries said:


> Glenn posted them to the Taekwondo-net mailing list over a period of time.  I compiled them in to a PDF for personal interest/use.  If he's happy with me doing it, I don't mind making that PDF publicly available?  If he doesn't want me to, then that's his call to make.



Nobody reads when it is a long pdf file. I'll just post them individually.


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## andyjeffries (Jan 20, 2011)

puunui said:


> Nobody reads when it is a long pdf file. I'll just post them individually.



I'm sure in your line of work you're used to reading longer documents than that! 

It's also not a big document to me (and useful as I have a Kindle), but I take your point - posting them here also prompts discussion...looking forward to that.


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## DMcHenry (Jan 20, 2011)

Thank you sir.


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## dancingalone (Jan 21, 2011)

I've observed that these tend to be relatively short.  Was this a goal of the design committee?


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## puunui (Jan 21, 2011)

dancingalone said:


> I've observed that these tend to be relatively short.  Was this a goal of the design committee?




The Taeguek poomsae are about 30 seconds long, and the yudanja poomsae about one minute long. I used to have all the times written down, but seem to have lost that. Some longer, some shorter, but around that.


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## dancingalone (Jan 21, 2011)

puunui said:


> The Taeguek poomsae are about 30 seconds long, and the yudanja poomsae about one minute long. I used to have all the times written down, but seem to have lost that. Some longer, some shorter, but around that.



Good to know.  These forms appear to be easier to learn and perform from an athletic standpoint than some other possible alternatives.  I guess the intent is to free up time for practice or research into other endeavors.


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## puunui (Jan 21, 2011)

dancingalone said:


> Good to know.  These forms appear to be easier to learn and perform from an athletic standpoint than some other possible alternatives.  I guess the intent is to free up time for practice or research into other endeavors.




I understand many feel the Kukkiwon poomsae are simplistic, but I think they have a lot of meaning behind it. No other style out there outlines is quite the same detail the actual path or journey of the stylist. That has tremendous value to me, over and beyond the actual movements. Some people try to search out hidden meaning in their forms, but I do not think that anyone are really tried to look for a developmental path as I explained in my thesis paper. So that is my small contribution to Taekwondo, giving everyone the road map. So many people get confused because they think that they should be constantly adding more and more the higher they go, but that is linear thinking, something that we have to let go off in order to reach the upper levels. Otherwise, we would be like mathematians who think that math is only about adding and subtracting, like we did in the old days, when we were in elementary school and had to walk barefoot 20 miles to school everyday because we couldn't afford shoes.


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## puunui (Jan 22, 2011)

IcemanSK said:


> I find GM Lee, Kyu-Hyung's Han Soo to be amazing. He demonstrates the power & grace that this poomsae is supposed to have. His is certainly a benchmark of this form for me.




I prefer GM LEE Chong Kwan's version. He seems to flow more smoothly (like water), whereas GM Lee's one is more stop and go.


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## Master Dan (Jan 23, 2011)

Looking for interpretations of Kumegang and Taebeck PoomSe as well most of all my meanings came from GM Cho and Dr Chang.

Punni has done a good job on all others did not see these


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## puunui (Apr 11, 2011)

Master Dan said:


> Looking for interpretations of Kumegang and Taebeck PoomSe as well most of all my meanings came from GM Cho and Dr Chang. Punni has done a good job on all others did not see these



Did you find these two or are you still looking for them?


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