# New product - will it work?



## Flatlander (Oct 6, 2004)

Found this in today's Globe and Mail.  Sorry, no pictures yet, but it hasn't officially been launched.


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## Flatlander (Oct 6, 2004)

I found their website here, but no info - page is still under construction.


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## Feisty Mouse (Oct 6, 2004)

I'm not sure if it will work aside from making someone mad, but I think they will sell.


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## Flatlander (Oct 6, 2004)

What I found really interesting is that because it's a muzzleloader, you don't require a permit to carry it.  What US law is this?  Does that mean you could carry around an old style muzzleloader pistol without a permit?


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## Spud (Oct 6, 2004)

Muzzle loading with black powder in a palm size fire-arm, what could possibly go wrong? 

 I see the potential for some creative modifications, (over loading the powder, trying glass shards or cocoa puffs instead of bb's). My prediction is it will leave owners with fewer fingers. More of a novelty than practical firearm IMHO. Not trying to p!ss on my fellow gun owners, just an observation on this particular item.

 Link with photo:
http://www.wftv.com/slideshow/news/2691965/detail.html


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## tshadowchaser (Oct 6, 2004)

It would still be a concelled weapon I think. Thusly running afoul of the conceled weapons laws in most states


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## grimfang (Oct 6, 2004)

I have enough problems getting though airport security now... this will only make it worse.. now they have to take EVERYTHING out of my wallet to search.... nothing i like more than watching security go through all my business cards


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## OULobo (Oct 6, 2004)

"The new guns do not count as firearms under U.S. regulations because they are muzzleloaders, Mr. Koscielski and Mr. Teel said. It is illegal to carry one without a permit for a concealed handgun, they said, and they both pledged not to sell them to anyone without valid identification and either a carry permit or a purchase permit."

I don't know what this guy is talking about, saying that it isn't a firearm, but he does say it is still governed by CCW laws. I don't see much of an advantage to this thing.


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## AnimEdge (Oct 6, 2004)

It would be cheaper to carry some BBs in your pocket and just chuck it at someone


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## KenpoTex (Oct 8, 2004)

IMNSHO this is just another novelty aimed at making a quick buck (and something else for the brady b$@#% to whine about)...kinda like the cell-phones and pagers that shoot .22's.  I'm as much of a gun-nut as anybody but this is just dumb.  If you wanted a gun for "last ditch" self-defense or deep concealment there are many that would actually be more effective, ie. the little .22 revolvers from NAA.


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## Baytor (Oct 13, 2004)

I actually just heard about it the other day.  The report I read said that while it was very limited by range, at close range it could cause significant injury or death.

That said, it seems more like a novelty to me, and not a very practical one at that.  Like Spud said, "...what could go wrong".


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## hardheadjarhead (Oct 13, 2004)

Here is another fairly small firearm that might just prove effective:

http://members.aol.com/wsp45/

http://members.aol.com/wsp45/images.html

I've wanted one for some time.  I think it'd offset my .454 Casull Ruger Super Redhawk.


Regards,


Steve


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## MA-Caver (Oct 14, 2004)

grimfang said:
			
		

> I have enough problems getting though airport security now... this will only make it worse.. now they have to take EVERYTHING out of my wallet to search.... nothing i like more than watching security go through all my business cards


Then you should make one that says: "Hey, don't you have something else better to do than go through all of my cards?" 

Of course that kind of smart-assery probably will get you bumped off your flight and sitting in a nice cold cell with a big guy named Bubba. 

As for the weapon... since it shoots BB's.... 
All I got to say is... "You'll put your eye out! You'll put your eye out!!"  (Christmas Story)


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## KenpoTex (Oct 14, 2004)

hardheadjarhead said:
			
		

> Here is another fairly small firearm that might just prove effective:
> I've wanted one for some time.  I think it'd offset my .454 Casull Ruger Super Redhawk.
> Regards,
> Steve


All I can say to that is "OUCH!"   It bears striking resemblance to a hideout/last-resort gun I once saw in a book about weapons used by the O.S.S. (*O*ffice of *S*trategic *S*ervices-predecessor of the CIA) during WWII.  This one does appear to be smaller than the one in the book because this one is single shot, the other one was 3+1.


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## Phil Elmore (Oct 14, 2004)

It's a dumb gimmick.  Guns are not toys and should not be approached as such.  The designers of this stupid thing obviously didn't understand that.



> "The new guns do not count as firearms under U.S. regulations because they are muzzleloaders, Mr. Koscielski and Mr. Teel said. It is illegal to carry one without a permit for a concealed handgun, they said, and they both pledged not to sell them to anyone without valid identification and either a carry permit or a purchase permit."



While it may be possible to buy the weapon without a permit, just as you could buy a flintlock pistol or percussion black powder rifle without a permit, the second you combine that weapon with the black powder you're in violation of several laws.  For example, in my state I could buy a muzzleloading pistol from a gun store without a permit, but if I also sought to buy black powder I would have to have a license.  I would also have to obtain a carry permit for, say, a black powder handgun if it was my intention to go hunting with it (and thus to carry it).


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