# It is a wonderful feeling when your Taijiquan works!



## zzj (Feb 28, 2016)

As some of you might know, I am a relative newbie to Taijiquan, having been involved with Mainstream Chen for just over 2 years. Although my teacher emphasizes that Taijiquan is first and foremost a martial art, but he does not teach 'sanshou' or free sparring as among the students there is no demand for it (at almost 40 I am one of his youngest students, so the more senior students aren't really into the sparring thing).

I have also recently started taking self defense classes that combine different effective techniques from TKD, hapkido, aikido, muay thai and BJJ in order to learn some useful skills and do some sparring. It is in one of these classes that we were asked to do some grappling and submission sparring, and I was paired with this senior student who was in his 20's, obviously way fitter than I was and taller by a head, although I did outweigh him by several kilograms.

What surprised me was my reaction from the word go, and how instinctively my taijiquan grounding kicked in, where as I would struggle with my fellow students during push hands training, against a non-taijiquan person his incoming force and balance was suddenly so apparent and easily counteracted. I'm not sure what I actually did, it I brought my opponent down almost too easily. On the ground I was much less familiar with my options as I was not allowed to just finish a person off with a stomp (which I was in a position to execute), I found myself being choked but was able to slip in my hand in between and completely 'sung' such that the choke could not work, I subsequently broke free by following the direction of force and twisting along it, and pinned my opponent down.

I'm not exactly sure where I am going with this thread, but I just felt honestly ecstatic with the outcome of the short match, and the second best thing was, I still had a lot of fight left in me while my opponent was already very tired at the end.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Feb 28, 2016)

zzj said:


> he does not teach 'sanshou' or free sparring ... push hands training,


Taiji solo form training -> push hands training -> ???

Some Taiji training is missing after the push hands training. If Taiji is a

- striking art, the striking training is missing.
- wrestling art, the wrestling training is missing.


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## zzj (Feb 28, 2016)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> Taiji solo form training -> push hands training -> ???
> 
> Some Taiji training is missing after the push hands training. If Taiji is a
> 
> ...



The striking part is missing in my case, but the wrestling part is covered to an extent in our free step push hands, which some have criticized as being too much like wrestling as compared to the non-Chen styles


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## Kung Fu Wang (Feb 28, 2016)

zzj said:


> The striking part is missing in my case, ...


This is the main concern. Taiji has:

- bend bow and shoot arrow (cross),
- vital punch (jab),
- left/right striking tiger (hook).
- snake extend tone (uppercut),
- turn around hammer (hammer fist),
- ...

All the striking tools are there. But "how to test those tools (sparring)" is missing.


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## zzj (Feb 29, 2016)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> This is the main concern. Taiji has:
> 
> - bend bow and shoot arrow (cross),
> - vital punch (jab),
> ...



Depends on the school. In my case there is just no demand, and my teacher does not have the equipment anyway. I'm sure there are taijiquan schools out there that actively incorporate sparring.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Feb 29, 2016)

zzj said:


> I'm sure there are taijiquan schools out there that actively incorporate sparring.


For the sake of discussion,

Let's A - the number of Taiji schools that exist on earth.
Let's B - the number of Taiji schools that spar.

B/A should be the "percentage" of Taiji schools on earth that spar. What do you think the value of B/A is?


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## zzj (Feb 29, 2016)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> For the sake of discussion,
> 
> Let's A - the number of Taiji schools that exist on earth.
> Let's B - the number of Taiji schools that spar.
> ...



No idea, but I have a feeling it's a minuscule percentage.


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## Zeny (Feb 29, 2016)

Good stuff!


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## zzj (Feb 29, 2016)

Zeny said:


> Good stuff!



Btw, I have been watching videos of Wee Kee jin's demos n explanations and incorporating what I understood into my push hands. According to my fellow students my fajing seems to have improved a bit.


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## Zeny (Feb 29, 2016)

Sounds interesting, what new things did you discover?


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Feb 29, 2016)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> For the sake of discussion,
> 
> Let's A - the number of Taiji schools that exist on earth.
> Let's B - the number of Taiji schools that spar.
> ...


You do realize that none of this effects him, right? He was just saying that he learned taiji, along with push hands, and when he had a chance to test it out against a non-taiji practitioner it worked. No one but you cares about whether or not his school in particular feels a need to spar.


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## mograph (Feb 29, 2016)

zzj said:


> I'm not sure what I actually did, it I brought my opponent down almost too easily.


That's great! In my experience, when it works, it _does_ seem too easy, and it feels as if the opponent is offering no resistance.


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## zzj (Feb 29, 2016)

mograph said:


> That's great! In my experience, when it works, it _does_ seem too easy, and it feels as if the opponent is offering no resistance.



Exactly, that was what thrilled me so much that I had to come here and post a thread and get all silly about it. However I have a feeling once striking is included in the sparring i might get mauled... At least initially.


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## zzj (Feb 29, 2016)

Zeny said:


> Sounds interesting, what new things did you discover?



It's actually anything new per se, things noting the position of the hips, the sinking of the back leg to 'draw the bow' and the nature of the release... most, if not all of these points I have been taught before, it's just that the thought process is not as finely broken down in my usual push hands practice.


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## mograph (Feb 29, 2016)

zzj said:


> It's actually anything new per se, things noting the position of the hips, the sinking of the back leg to 'draw the bow' and the nature of the release... most, if not all of these points I have been taught before, it's just that the thought process is not as finely broken down in my usual push hands practice.


It's also good when it happens all at once, without having to think about it. 
And that's not so unlike many physical activities, no?


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## zzj (Feb 29, 2016)

mograph said:


> It's also good when it happens all at once, without having to think about it.
> And that's not so unlike many physical activities, no?



At this stage I have to watch every little detail, hopefully in time to come it will just happen all at once.


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## mograph (Mar 1, 2016)

zzj said:


> At this stage I have to watch every little detail, hopefully in time to come it will just happen all at once.


That's the same for all sports (not that I'm calling this a sport, but you get my drift): we have to concentrate on the details until they eventually integrate and become habitual. The explicit becomes implicit. At that point they become hard to describe, but that's normal. Actually, it works for jazz improvisation, too: lots of scale practice is needed for improv, but at some point it becomes implicit.

Have you heard of chick sexers? They are individuals trained to determine the sex of a chick. At first, they have no clue how to do it, because chicks all look the same to them. But, eventually, they figure it out, and can get to the point where they can do it really quickly and accurately. But when they get to that point, they won't be able to tell you how they do it: they just do it.

Here's a tip: if you encounter someone with expertise in a sport, and you want to mess them up, compliment them on some fine detail of their performance. If you can cause them to focus on that detail, you can temporarily break the integration that they've achieved over the years. It depends on the situation, of course. It's a cognitive psych thing.


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## Xue Sheng (Mar 1, 2016)

mograph said:


> Here's a tip: if you encounter someone with expertise in a sport, and you want to mess them up, compliment them on some fine detail of their performance. If you can cause them to focus on that detail, you can temporarily break the integration that they've achieved over the years. It depends on the situation, of course. It's a cognitive psych thing.



Well that's evil....therefore I must try it


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## mograph (Mar 2, 2016)

Xue Sheng said:


> Well that's evil....therefore I must try it


Now, it only works when you comment on something that the person does intuitively: if they're still working on that action explicitly, focusing on details, it won't work. It might even help them!


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