# McClellan Blasts Bush!



## elder999 (May 28, 2008)

Seen Here...and, well everywhere.:lol:



> PHOENIX &#8212; President Bush &#8220;convinces himself to believe what suits his needs at the moment,&#8221; and has engaged in &#8220;self-deception&#8221; to justify his political ends, Scott McClellan, the former White House press secretary, writes in a critical new memoir about his years in the West Wing.
> In addition, Mr. McClellan writes, the decision to invade Iraq was a &#8220;serious strategic blunder,&#8221; and yet, in his view, it was not the biggest mistake the Bush White House made. That, he says, was &#8220;a decision to turn away from candor and honesty when those qualities were most needed.&#8221;
> 
> Mr. McClellan&#8217;s book, &#8220;What Happened: Inside the Bush White House and Washington&#8217;s Culture of Deception,&#8221; is the first negative account by a member of the tight circle of Texans around Mr. Bush. Mr. McClellan, 40, went to work for Mr. Bush when he was governor of Texas and was the White House press secretary from July 2003 to April 2006.


 
_McClellan charges that Bush relied on *&#8220;propaganda&#8221;* to sell the war._

He says the White House press corps too easy on the administration during the run-up to the war.

&#8220;History appears poised to confirm what most Americans today have decided: that the decision to invade Iraq was a serious strategic blunder. No one, including me, can know with absolute certainty how the war will be viewed decades from now when we can more fully understand its impact. What I do know is that war should only be waged when necessary, and the Iraq war was not necessary."


----------



## Big Don (May 28, 2008)

Gee, being FIRED couldn't influence his writing, could it?


----------



## elder999 (May 28, 2008)

Big Don said:


> Gee, being FIRED couldn't influence his writing, could it?


 
I believe he, like his predecessor, the more ably talented Ari Fleischer, resigned.

The job sucks-that probably influenced his writing more, as well as _what actually happened._


----------



## Nolerama (May 28, 2008)

You should check out Bush's Brain, a documentary about Karl Rove and his role in the Bush II administration.

There are a lot of testimonials from current Capitol Hill bigwigs and military leaders criticizing the current administration. Many of those testimonials insinuate the concept that the US's real leadership lies with Bush's appointed advisers.

Aren't all wars from a "democratic" country greased with propaganda? If anything, Bush and his people are great spin doctors.

Too bad the American people took the bait.


----------



## CoryKS (May 28, 2008)

elder999 said:


> _McClellan charges that Bush relied on *propaganda* to sell the war._


 
That's fine, given our past discussion of "propaganda". It seems to me that you are again trying to suggest something unsavory with this term.



elder999 said:


> History appears poised to confirm what most Americans today have decided: that the decision to invade Iraq was a serious strategic blunder. No one, including me, can know with absolute certainty how the war will be viewed decades from now when we can more fully understand its impact. *What I do know is that war should only be waged when necessary, and the Iraq war was not necessary*."


 
I'm not interested in a spokesman's opinion of when war should be waged, nor whether this particular war fits his criteria.

BTW:  Love the new avatar!


----------



## elder999 (May 28, 2008)

CoryKS said:


> .
> 
> BTW: Love the new avatar!


 

Thanks-like almost all things, it's temporary.,...


----------



## elder999 (May 28, 2008)

CoryKS said:


> That's fine, given our past discussion of "propaganda". It seems to me that you are again trying to suggest something unsavory with this term.


 
Not me, *him*:



> The Bush White House made "a decision to turn away from candor and honesty when those qualities were most needed"  a time when the nation was on the brink of war, McClellan writes in the book entitled "What Happened: Inside the Bush White House and Washington's Culture of Deception."
> The way Bush managed the Iraq issue "almost guaranteed that the use of force would become the only feasible option."
> 
> *"In the permanent campaign era, it was all about manipulating sources of public opinion to the president's advantage," *McClellan writes.


----------



## Empty Hands (May 28, 2008)

Well, what else do you expect from a wacky LIEbrul?


----------



## Darksoul (May 28, 2008)

-Not taking sides in this but I would like to interject one thought about McClellan. The interviews done with other White House staff wondered why, if McClellan had any aversion to the policies of the Bush administration, did he not speak out at that time? I think, considering the hit jobs that have been done on those who disagreed with Bush policy, it was probably self-preservation. If he really disagreed, he would've kept his mouth shut. Who can know? Just a thought.

Andrew


----------



## Twin Fist (May 28, 2008)

well.

hmmmm

he tol Ari Fliesher not too long ago that the book would make Bush look really good. 

then the editors got ahold of it

just as an aside, the company publishing the book? it is owned by one George Soros...............


----------



## elder999 (May 28, 2008)

Twin Fist said:


> well.
> 
> hmmmm
> 
> ...


 
_Do you have a source for that information?_


----------



## Twin Fist (May 28, 2008)

yes, Fliesher told O'Rielly that on the radio today. I heard it.


----------



## tellner (May 28, 2008)

The amazing thing about this isn't that it's happened but how often it's happened. There's been a steady parade of former high-level Bush officials who have written damning memoirs. It started in his first term when his popularity was buoyed by *Laaaa!!!!* 9-11 *Laaaa!!!!* and has continued until today. There was nothing like this during the Clinton, Bush I, Reagan, Carter, Ford, Nixon or Johnson years. That fact alone is quite disturbing.


----------



## elder999 (May 28, 2008)

Twin Fist said:


> yes, Fliesher told O'Rielly that on the radio today. I heard it.


 
Well, good-the transcript should be available online tomorrow. In the meantime, though, in addition to the unfavorable things that McClellan said in his book, he apparently also shared some genuine affection and admiration of *B*u*S*h-a man he worked for from the time he was governor of Texas...I guess that's favorable.


----------



## crushing (May 28, 2008)

tellner said:


> The amazing thing about this isn't that it's happened but how often it's happened. There's been a steady parade of former high-level Bush officials who have written damning memoirs. It started in his first term when his popularity was buoyed by *Laaaa!!!!* 9-11 *Laaaa!!!!* and has continued until today. *There was nothing like this during the Clinton, Bush I, Reagan, Carter, Ford, Nixon or Johnson years. That fact alone is quite disturbing.*


 
Nixon did have John Dean.  Most other high level officials have been pretty loyal.


----------



## Twin Fist (May 28, 2008)

yeah, all of Clinton's former advisors went to jail.



tellner said:


> The amazing thing about this isn't that it's happened but how often it's happened. There's been a steady parade of former high-level Bush officials who have written damning memoirs. It started in his first term when his popularity was buoyed by *Laaaa!!!!* 9-11 *Laaaa!!!!* and has continued until today. There was nothing like this during the Clinton, Bush I, Reagan, Carter, Ford, Nixon or Johnson years. That fact alone is quite disturbing.


----------



## elder999 (May 28, 2008)

Twin Fist said:


> yeah, all of Clinton's former advisors went to jail.


 

_Name two._ *Come sail away, come sail away, come sail away with me!*


----------



## Twin Fist (May 28, 2008)

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]Webster Hubbell[/FONT] [FONT=Arial,Helvetica]Jim McDougal[/FONT] 
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]Susan McDougal[/FONT] 
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]Gov. Jim Guy Tucker[/FONT] 
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]Stephen Smith[/FONT] 
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]David Hale[/FONT] 
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]Eugene Fitzhugh[/FONT] 
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]Charles Matthews[/FONT] 
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]Robert W. Palmer[/FONT] 
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]Chris Wade[/FONT] 
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]Neal T. Ainley[/FONT] 
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]Larry Kuca[/FONT] 
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]Henry Espy[/FONT] 
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]James Lake[/FONT] 
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]William J. Marks, Sr.[/FONT] 
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]John Latham[/FONT] 
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]John Haley[/FONT] 
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]Michael Brown (Ron Brown's son)[/FONT] 
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]Eugene Lum[/FONT] 
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]Nora Lum[/FONT] 
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]Johnny Chung[/FONT] 
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]Tyson Foods[/FONT] 
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]Sun Diamond Growers[/FONT] 
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]Richard Douglas[/FONT] 
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]James Lake[/FONT] 
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]Ron Blackley[/FONT] 
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]Smith Barney[/FONT] 
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]Crop Growers Corporation[/FONT] 
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]Brook Keith Mitchell Sr.[/FONT] 
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]Five M Farming Enterprises[/FONT] 
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]John J. Hemmingson[/FONT] 
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]Alvarez T. Ferrouillet, Jr.[/FONT] 
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]Municipal Healthcare Cooperative[/FONT] 
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]Ferrouillet & Ferrouillet[/FONT] 
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]Linda Jones[/FONT] 
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]Patsy Jo Wooten[/FONT] 
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]Allen Wooten[/FONT] 
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]Roger Clinton[/FONT] 
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]Dan Lasater[/FONT] 
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]Bill McCuen[/FONT] 
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]Dan Harmon[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]as ususal, the facts dont care about party. The clinton presidency was arguably one of the most corrupt in history
[/FONT]


----------



## elder999 (May 28, 2008)

Twin Fist said:


> [FONT=Arial,Helvetica]Webster Hubbell[/FONT] [FONT=Arial,Helvetica]Jim McDougal[/FONT]
> [FONT=Arial,Helvetica]Susan McDougal[/FONT]
> [FONT=Arial,Helvetica]Gov. Jim Guy Tucker[/FONT]
> [FONT=Arial,Helvetica]Stephen Smith[/FONT]
> ...


 
Since you mention the Clinton Presidency, what role did any two of those individuals play in his regime?

In fact, which two was it that you'd call "advisors" to Bill Clinton?


----------



## Twin Fist (May 28, 2008)

most of those are people that worked for him while he was governor. (Jim and Susan McDougal would certainly qualify as advisors)You know, when he was learning how to be a corrupt, ethics-challenged used car salesman and accused rapist.

Does that make a huge difference?

The fact is Sandy Berger only avoided jail because of a plea bargin and Hillary only avoided jail because the papers just so happened to have popped up AFTER the statute of limitations ran out.

Not to mention Clinton himself was found guilty of perjury and DISBARRED



oh, and "Pardons!! get your fresh hot Pardons!! Pardons for sale!!"



you cant seriously be defending the guy? He was a great speaker yes, he was also a criminal


----------



## elder999 (May 28, 2008)

Twin Fist said:


> He was a great speaker yes, he was also a criminal


 

He's also irrelevant-kind of like Ronald Reagan-whose presidency resulted in more criminal indictments than any in history.


----------



## Twin Fist (May 28, 2008)

indictments dont equal convictions.

I gotta crash dude, talk to you later


----------



## elder999 (May 28, 2008)

Twin Fist said:


> indictments dont equal convictions.


 
Yer right. Here they are, Reagan adminstration convictions:

Elliott Abrams, Reagan's appointee to head the State Department's Latin American Bureau, cooperated with Iran-Contra investigators and pled guilty to two charges that were reduced to misdemeanors. He was sentenced to two years probation and 100 hours of community service but was pardoned by President George H.W. Bush. 

Deborah Gore Dean, executive assistant to HUD Secretary Samuel Pierce - convicted on twelve counts three counts of conspiracy to defraud the federal government, one count of having accepted an illegal gratuity, four counts of perjury, and four counts of engaging in a scheme to conceal material facts. 

Michael Deaver, Reagan's Deputy White House Chief of Staff from January 1981 until May 1985 convicted of perjury before a congressional subcommittee and a federal grand jury regarding his lobbying activities after leaving the White House. 

Thomas Demery, Reagan's HUD Assistant Secretary, pled guilty to steering HUD subsidies to politically connected donors. 

Alan D. Fiers, Chief of the CIA's Central American Task Force, and a career civil servant, pled guilty to two counts of withholding information from the Congress about Oliver North's activities and the diversion of Iran arms sale money to aid the Contras, and was sentenced to one year of probation and 100 hours of community service. He was pardoned by President George H.W. Bush. 

Clair George, Chief of the CIA's Division of Covert Operations, and a career civil servant, was convicted of lying to two congressional committees in connection with the Iran-Contra investigations, but was pardoned by President George H.W. Bush. 

Rita Lavelle, Reagan-appointed assistant administrator of the Environmental Protection Agency, was convicted of lying to the Congress in connection with Sewergate investigations and served three months of a six-month prison sentence. 

Robert C. McFarlane, Reagan's National Security Advisor, pled guilty to four misdemeanors regarding withholding of information from Congress as part of Sewergate, and was sentenced to two years probation and 200 hours of community service and fined $20,000. He was pardoned by President George H.W. Bush. 

Lyn Nofziger, Reagan's White House Press Secretary, who was convicted on charges of illegal lobbying after leaving office, as part of the Wedtech scandal. 

Joseph A. Strauss, Special Assistant to the Secretary of HUD, convicted for accepting payments to favor Puerto Rican land developers in receiving HUD funding.

James G. Watt, Reagan's Secretary of the Interior, was indicted on 41 felony counts for using his connections, after he left office, at the Department of Housing and Urban Development to assist his clients seek federal funds for housing projects, and sentenced to five years probation and 500 hours of community service. 



> ........talk to you later


 
Somehow, I doubt it....


----------



## CoryKS (May 28, 2008)

Twin Fist said:


> [FONT=Arial,Helvetica]Webster Hubbell[/FONT] [FONT=Arial,Helvetica]Jim McDougal[/FONT]
> [FONT=Arial,Helvetica]Susan McDougal[/FONT]
> [FONT=Arial,Helvetica]Gov. Jim Guy Tucker[/FONT]
> [FONT=Arial,Helvetica]Stephen Smith[/FONT]
> ...


 
"...We didn't start the fire / It was always burning since the world was turning..."

Sorry man, couldn't resist.


----------



## 5-0 Kenpo (May 29, 2008)

So.....

What we are saying here is that all politicians are corrupt, to a greater or lesser degree in comparison with each other.....

Does anything else really need to be said?


----------



## Makalakumu (May 29, 2008)

This might be a paranoid machiavellian fantasy, but I can't shake the thought that McClellen set a back fire to burn up fuel so the real bad stuff doesn't come out.

Hey, look at me, we were so bad, here's how!  

Meanwhile the real criminals run while everyone is looking...


----------



## Big Don (May 29, 2008)

Then again, there is the profit motive:


> Well, why, all of a sudden, if he (Richard Clarke) had all these grave concerns, did he not raise these sooner? This is one-and-a-half years after he left the administration. And now, all of a sudden, he&#8217;s raising these grave concerns that he claims he had. And I think you have to look at some of the facts. One, he is bringing this up in the heat of a presidential campaign. He has written a book and he certainly wants to go out there and promote that book


That, of course, is McClellan referring to that other selfappointed stalwart, Richard Clark.


----------



## Big Don (May 29, 2008)

Or it could be just a family tradition: His father, attorney Barr McClellan had used information about his former partners at a Texas law firm as the basis of a book asserting Lyndon Baines Johnson had directed the assassination of John F. Kennedy.


----------



## elder999 (May 29, 2008)

Big Don said:


> Then again, there is the profit motive:
> .


 

Yeah, and why not? He's got a story to tell, and people are _buying_ it.....it's the #1 Bestseller on Amazon.com


----------



## Big Don (May 30, 2008)

elder999 said:


> Yeah, and why not? He's got a story to tell, and people are _buying_ it.....it's the #1 Bestseller on Amazon.com


Gee, maybe if he acts fast he can write as much fiction as Twain.


----------



## elder999 (May 30, 2008)

Big Don said:


> Gee, maybe if he acts fast he can write as much fiction as Twain.


 

Now, now, Don-his momma says he's telling the truth!


----------



## Twin Fist (May 30, 2008)

upnorthkyosa said:


> This might be a paranoid machiavellian fantasy,



yep...LOL

Occham's razor

the simplest answer is usually it. he got greedy is a LOT simpler than some complex mis-direction operation


----------



## FearlessFreep (Jun 2, 2008)

To sell a book....

 Scottie McClellan's Book Proposal Defended Bush, Attacked the Liberal Media



> But the trouble with such a book is that people with far more credibility and talent have been pumping them out for years.
> 
> The best Scottie McClellan could hope for with such a book -- assuming some soft-hearted conservative gave him a break and bothered publishing it all -- would be mostly heavily discounted "sales" basically given out freely to people who attended his mostly-skipped speeches at conservative conferences. "Sales," mostly at a bargain-basement practically-giving-them-away price, that would number in the tens of thousands... if it was a halfway decent book.
> 
> ...


----------



## Makalakumu (Jun 3, 2008)

Twin Fist said:


> yep...LOL
> 
> Occham's razor
> 
> the simplest answer is usually it. he got greedy is a LOT simpler than some complex mis-direction operation


 
Not when Rove and company are involved.  This is politics, not science.


----------



## Twin Fist (Jun 3, 2008)

BDS

In case you missed it, Rove dont work there any more dude.


----------

