# Please give your thoughts internalists...



## TSDTexan (Oct 17, 2015)

Cook Ding's Kitchen: Internal Martial Arts Explained

This blog post, to which I have linked is an excerpt from a book. This article deals with Yi or intent in a interesting way.

I would like to hear the thoughts of you internalists out there after you read it.


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## Xue Sheng (Oct 17, 2015)

That is an article from Shifu Jonathan Bluestein 



> Shifu Jonathan Bluestein (LL.B) is a martial arts teacher and author hailing from Israel. He is the founder of the Tianjin Martial Arts Academy, where he teaches the traditional Chinese martial arts of Xing Yi Quan and Pigua Zhang.



posted on Rick Matz (Cook Ding's) website. I have seen it before but not yet read it, I will read it and respond later.

On a side note there are 2 books from Cook Ding that are pretty darn good


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## TSDTexan (Oct 17, 2015)

Xue Sheng said:


> That is an article from Shifu Jonathan Bluestein
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thats what I have been hearing. I am considering adding them to my library.

I was hoping you specifically, and others like yourself ... cma subject matter experts..  could help me avoid fakers (real vs fake crap) with regard to this matter.

What I read sounded very real and in keeping with what conversations I have had with herbalists and acupuncture daoists who were internalists.

But I dont have a high level of recall of those conversations. .. more like yeah I remember hearing about this... superficial, background knowledge in my head.


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## Flying Crane (Oct 17, 2015)

TSDTexan said:


> Thats what I have been hearing. I am considering adding them to my library.
> 
> I was hoping you specifically, and others like yourself ... cma subject matter experts..  could help me avoid fakers (real vs fake crap) with regard to this matter.
> 
> ...


I recently bought a copy of Jonathan's book at a used book store.  I'm not an internalist, though you could argue that my system of Tibetan white crane has internal elements and could be seen as a hybrid internal/external method. 

I've not completed the book, I've gotten thru the first few segments, maybe 69-70 pages or so.  It's a long book in large format.  I think he hits some things on the target, but it feels like a self-published work and would have benefitted from a professional editor.  I'm not terribly excited by the book, but would agree it could be worthwhile for someone starting out and looking for some information.

I've not read anything from cook Ding, this is the first I've heard of him. I


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## clfsean (Oct 17, 2015)

Flying Crane said:


> I recently bought a copy of Jonathan's book at a used book store.  I'm not an internalist, though you could argue that my system of Tibetan white crane has internal elements and could be seen as a hybrid internal/external method.



Have you hit Min Loi Jaam yet?


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## Flying Crane (Oct 18, 2015)

clfsean said:


> Have you hit Min Loi Jaam yet?


I don't know the Chinese, is that cotton needle?


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## clfsean (Oct 18, 2015)

Flying Crane said:


> I don't know the Chinese, is that cotton needle?


Yep


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## Flying Crane (Oct 19, 2015)

clfsean said:


> Yep


Have seen it many times but haven't learned it.  Looking doubtful at this point.  Haven't been to class in over a year.  After the baby was born, had to buy a bigger house, moved farther out from the city, renting a portion of the house on Airbnb to help pay the mortgage, life just took over and have been very busy.  I've only learned up thru the intermediate material, gotta Bai Si (spelling?) before sifu will teach me more.  I'm just not in a position to make that commitment now.

In a lot of ways I have plenty of material.  None of the forms are really necessary.  They are all useful and I would welcome the chance to learn any, but they are not truly necessary.  Understanding the principles and drilling the basics is far more important.  Even if I teach, I have more than plenty of material to be very thorough.


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## TSDTexan (Oct 19, 2015)

TSDTexan said:


> Thats what I have been hearing. I am considering adding them to my library.
> 
> I was hoping you specifically, and others like yourself ... cma subject matter experts..  could help me avoid fakers (real vs fake crap) with regard to this matter.
> 
> ...




Turns out Sifu Bluestein has a 72 page pdf sample. I have been reading it. Its soo good I am going to buy it even if He wasnt an accomplished MA. And now I want to develop whole body power and I am looking at Yi Fist/Yi Boxing as it would be something to integrate into what I already do.


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## TSDTexan (Oct 19, 2015)

Xue Sheng said:


> That is an article from Shifu Jonathan Bluestein
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Looking forward to hearing your thoughts after you read it.


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## clfsean (Oct 19, 2015)

Flying Crane said:


> Have seen it many times but haven't learned it.  Looking doubtful at this point.  Haven't been to class in over a year.  After the baby was born, had to buy a bigger house, moved farther out from the city, renting a portion of the house on Airbnb to help pay the mortgage, life just took over and have been very busy.  I've only learned up thru the intermediate material, gotta Bai Si (spelling?) before sifu will teach me more.  I'm just not in a position to make that commitment now.
> 
> In a lot of ways I have plenty of material.  None of the forms are really necessary.  They are all useful and I would welcome the chance to learn any, but they are not truly necessary.  Understanding the principles and drilling the basics is far more important.  Even if I teach, I have more than plenty of material to be very thorough.



Gotcha gotcha ... life does that. I was just wondering if you'd hit that one yet.


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## Flying Crane (Oct 19, 2015)

clfsean said:


> Gotcha gotcha ... life does that. I was just wondering if you'd hit that one yet.


Sure, and I've seen Sifu working with my sihing over and over on it, I was right there with them only I was working on other things, it wasn't done in secret.  I've got a good sense of what it is about and how it's done, and it reinforces my feeling that it too is not, strictly speaking, necessary.  I see the fundamental principles all over that form, just done in a more subtle manner.  There are other ways to develop the same thing, I see it as a progression in the training methodology, the form doesn't contain any mystical secrets or anything.  It's still body mechanics.

Sifu's comments support my notions, he always says we don't need a bunch of forms.  I feel that they are best understood as a tool for developing an understanding of the principles, and what is possible with that.  You don't need them all, or even any, tho they are certainly useful to that end.  If you don't understand that, then more forms won't help you.  If you do understand that, then the goal has been accomplished and you don't need additional forms.

While I respect the tradition and history of the system and would like to learn the rest of the forms for that sake, NOT having them can be a blessing and makes training more focused and less burdensome.  Get more mileage out of less material, rather than get spread too thin and it all suffers for it.


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## Flying Crane (Oct 19, 2015)

TSDTexan said:


> Turns out Sifu Bluestein has a 72 page pdf sample. I have been reading it. Its soo good I am going to buy it even if He wasnt an accomplished MA. And now I want to develop whole body power and I am looking at Yi Fist/Yi Boxing as it would be something to integrate into what I already do.



I would say all CMA has the goal of full body power.  They just go about developing it in different ways.  Some ways make sense to some people, but not all.  Find a way that makes sense to you, don't worry about the "reputation" that a system may have or may not have.  If the methodology makes sense to you and you are progressing, then it is a good match for you.

I trained in an offshoot of Chen taiji for about a decade before realizing it just didn't sink in for me as a method, so I stopped.  It's just not a good match for me.  I don't have a sense of the qi  and stuff, can't see where it's all going as an approach to training.  So just keep some perspective.


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## Xue Sheng (Oct 19, 2015)

It is a good article but it is a whole lot of words to say Sandao, Yi, Qi, Li, and unification of upper and lower

Sandao – First you must unify your Shen (Spirit) with the movement. Second you must make your Yi (thought, intension) an important part of every move and third is Shi (posture, position) it must be correct and comfortable.

Yi, Qi, Li. - Yi (thought) controls Qi (energy) and Qi controls Li (Muscles)

And after all that upper and lower should be unified to move and use power properly

Also, as for Zhan Zhuang in Taiji, I am not exactly sure when it appears (and I am not so sure the Chen family is all that sure either), however Wuji standing in Taijiquan predates Yang Chengfu (1883–1936). Zhan Zhaung in Xingyiquan it sounds as if he is saying it is a more modern posture in Xingyiquan. Zhan Zhuang and various other standing postures can be found in Dai Xinyi which is where (historically) Xingyiquan comes from and that predates Ji Jike (1588–1662)


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## Flying Crane (Oct 19, 2015)

TSDTexan said:


> Turns out Sifu Bluestein has a 72 page pdf sample. I have been reading it. Its soo good I am going to buy it even if He wasnt an accomplished MA. And now I want to develop whole body power and I am looking at Yi Fist/Yi Boxing as it would be something to integrate into what I already do.



Give me a little time to peruse my copy a bit more.  The jury is still out in my mind, I might be willing to send you my copy.

By the way, what is the price you are finding for it?


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## TSDTexan (Oct 19, 2015)

Flying Crane said:


> Give me a little time to peruse my copy a bit more.  The jury is still out in my mind, I might be willing to send you my copy.
> 
> By the way, what is the price you are finding for it?


$32.13 and 4.00 for shipping is the lowest rate I have found.


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## Flying Crane (Oct 20, 2015)

TSDTexan said:


> $32.13 and 4.00 for shipping is the lowest rate I have found.


Alright, give me a few days and I'll let you know if I feel like I need to keep it, or if I can pass it along.


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