# Chinese proverbs.../ Riddles...



## tmonis (Dec 5, 2004)

In regards to freedom - Which is truly the prisoner? The fly, which moving freely has entered unknown danger? Or the spider, which having spun its web, remains, never knowing the pleasure or the danger of the fly?...... 

Good luck on solving this one...

Prof. Todd:asian:


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## TigerWoman (Dec 5, 2004)

the fly represents freedom...too much freedom/life/curiosity brings the end
the spider represent security...too much stagnation/security/no choice brings the end, no life

must be a balance... the spider....?? TW


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## tmonis (Dec 6, 2004)

That's a hard one right? It is like who came first the chicken or the egg?

That phrase is from a martial arts show? Do you know which one? What Chinese riddles do you know?:idunno:


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## The Kai (Dec 6, 2004)

"If you tie two birds together, all though they have 8 wings they still cannot fly"


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## TigerWoman (Dec 6, 2004)

The spider is trapped by his own decision to stay by the web because once the web is spun, he is committed.  His own mind is making him the prisoner.
The fly could be trapped by his decision to fly into the web but at least he has a choice and is still free.

Answering your question, no, I don't watch alot of martial art shows and I don't know any chinese riddles.  TW


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## tmonis (Dec 6, 2004)

TigerWoman said:
			
		

> The spider is trapped by his own decision to stay by the web because once the web is spun, he is committed. His own mind is making him the prisoner.
> The fly is could be trapped by his decision to fly into the web but at least he has a choice still and is still free.
> 
> Answering your question, no, I don't watch alot of martial art shows and I don't know any chinese riddles. TW


That is really good the way you broke that down. I will come up with a few more. Good Job.


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## tmonis (Dec 8, 2004)

The Kai said:
			
		

> "If you tie two birds together, all though they have 8 wings they still cannot fly"


Hello Kai,

If you tied two birds together, would they not only have 4 wings? But more importantly, They cannot fly because they would both be trying to fly in different flights away from each other. Not as a team. There is an important lesson to be learned with that one.

Take Care

Prof. Todd


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## The Kai (Dec 8, 2004)

I know it is from the cheesy "Circle of Iron" allong with "You can'not step on the same piece of water twice"

Todd


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## tmonis (Dec 8, 2004)

The Kai said:
			
		

> I know it is from the cheesy "Circle of Iron" allong with "You can'not step on the same piece of water twice"
> 
> Todd


I understand now. lol


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## tmonis (Dec 8, 2004)

OK round two: 

What is the meaning of this one?

We all encounter a demon when our conscience is not at rest. To run from your demon is to have him pursue you.


Good LucK!!

Todd


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## TigerWoman (Dec 8, 2004)

tmonis said:
			
		

> We all encounter a demon when our conscience is not at rest. To run from your demon is to have him pursue you.



To face the conflict imposed by our conscience and deal with it honorably is to be free from it.  The alternative being that, that same conflict will follow you into another and another situation further in your life.  

Like money/greed.  If the value of money is not realized early in life, later  you assume to pick money over children, wife again, until you realize/face conflict,  that it is not all that there is to life.
TW


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## shesulsa (Dec 8, 2004)

On round two:  What you resist persists - one must face one's own demons to no longer be pursued by them.  One cannot rid oneself of demons for they live within a person.  When you run, your demons run with you.

 On round one:  The observer is the prisoner, for s/he will miss much spending too much time gazing at the scene of the spider and the fly.  (wink)


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## TigerWoman (Dec 8, 2004)

More ancient chinese proverbs--comment if you want...


After three days without reading, talk becomes flavourless. 
%
An ant may well destroy a whole dam. 
%
Be not afraid of growing slowly, be afraid only of standing still. 
%
Behind an able man there are always other able men.
%
Better a diamond with a flaw than a pebble without one. 
%
Better do a good deed near at home than go far away to burn incense. 
%
Better to light a candle than to curse the darkness 
%
A book is like a garden carried in the pocket. 
%
Clear conscience never fears midnight knocking.
%
A closed mind is like a closed book; just a block of wood

TW


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## OnlyAnEgg (Dec 9, 2004)

tmonis said:
			
		

> We all encounter a demon when our conscience is not at rest. To run from your demon is to have him pursue you.


When we are not at peace with creation, our will interferes; yet, to evade our will is to have it continue to interfere.  We must bring our will into harmony with creation.

Or something like that.

jim


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## tmonis (Dec 9, 2004)

You guys are really doing a great job on these. I thought I could stump you. NOT....TW, I really liked your proverbs. They makes sense when you really think about them. Shesula, I really liked the way you broke everything down.

The first one deals with freedom and the second deals with acceptance. 

Egg, Slightly different view, but there again right on target. Good job.

Stand by for round three.

Prof. Todd


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## tmonis (Dec 10, 2004)

Round 3: What does this pretain to?

The river seeks its own level. It does not fight the rock. It flows around it...The rock becomes a refuge for the river.

Good Luck.

Prof. Todd


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## shesulsa (Dec 10, 2004)

picking one's battles - acceptance of one's own limititations


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## OnlyAnEgg (Dec 10, 2004)

tmonis said:
			
		

> The river seeks its own level. It does not fight the rock. It flows around it...The rock becomes a refuge for the river.


The force of life (the Ki of the universe, perhaps?) will always find a way to burst through; neither being contained nor rebuffed.  That which would divert it will, in turn, provide a definition for it.

A question arises from this:  is the river defined by it's water or it's banks?

jim


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## Kenpomachine (Dec 12, 2004)

OnlyAnEgg said:
			
		

> A question arises from this:  is the river defined by it's water or it's banks?


 To answer the above, it is both. The water will adapt to the circumstances (the rocks in the way), even though it may cut through it with enough time (not the same water, though).

 The banks can, and do, change shape with the water. They ain't inmovable or permanent, but depending on the amount and speed of the water, they can look like it.

 And being enough water, the banks matter no more. A river  that has flooded the flats along its bank is still a river, isn't it? 

 What I can't understand is how the rock is a refuge...


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## TigerWoman (Dec 12, 2004)

tmonis said:
			
		

> The river seeks its own level. It does not fight the rock. It flows around it...The rock becomes a refuge for the river.



The river may be up, full of energy, over its banks at times, or it can be starved and low, or just right and within its banks but it still flows on according to its capability and energy.  

The rock symbolizes the conflict, barrier in the way.  When it is full of energy, it can flow over the rock, when it is just right, the energy can go around the rock, even if it low it can go under the rock.  But if it is low it can also pool by the rock saving its waters, its energy and rest until its stores are replenished again. It still does not give up, relinquish its right of path.  I relate to that river. I'm pooling. TW


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## tmonis (Dec 12, 2004)

You guys rock! No pun intended. This whole thing deals with Harmony. Unable to move the rock except over time, the water flows around it. The rock is a refuge because it causes interference to allow the water to change flow. This will keep the water moving and changing instead of becoming stagnant.

Good job TW. All of you had your thinking caps on for that one.

OK round 4: An easy one. Love cannot know the measure of its depth until the hour of parting.

What do you think about this one?

Prof. Todd


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## OnlyAnEgg (Dec 14, 2004)

The absense of a thing can be more telling then the presence of a thing.


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## TigerWoman (Dec 14, 2004)

tmonis said:
			
		

> l of you had your thinking caps on for that one.
> 
> OK round 4: An easy one. Love cannot know the measure of its depth until the hour of parting.




This is not necessarily about loving a person. It could be also be love of something important in your life. (martial arts)

Being with or doing something you love is easy, you are satisfied, full of joy, and whole.  But when you realize it won't be there any more and that you will lose part of yourself, then it becomes difficult.  You have no way of knowing what a big part of yourself it is until you feel the pain of it leaving and the need for it to remain.  TW


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## Doc (Dec 14, 2004)

tmonis said:
			
		

> In regards to freedom - Which is truly the prisoner? The fly, which moving freely has entered unknown danger? Or the spider, which having spun its web, remains, never knowing the pleasure or the danger of the fly?......
> 
> Good luck on solving this one...
> 
> Prof. Todd:asian:


DDT will take them both out. Me thinks you should post in the philosophy section.


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## Karazenpo (Dec 14, 2004)

"Here I sit so broken hearted..........Came to **** but only ******....." Edited to conform to MT Rules & Policies


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## Doc (Dec 14, 2004)

Karazenpo said:
			
		

> "Here I sit so broken hearted..........Came to sh_t but only f_rted"........


OK, if you're going to go that route.

"Man who lay woman on hill - not on level"


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## tmonis (Dec 14, 2004)

Doc said:
			
		

> DDT will take them both out. Me thinks you should post in the philosophy section.


Doc: I guess you are right it would take them out. However being of someone of your stature, I thought you could appreciate that one. Guess I was wrong. You seem to be able to comment on everything else intelligently mostly in a positive manner. I read the Kenpo section the most so I posted here. Opinions vary.

Karazenpo: I have always liked that one. 

"There once was a man from Nantucket"...No I won't go there... lol


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## Doc (Dec 14, 2004)

tmonis said:
			
		

> Doc: I guess you are right it would take them out. However being of someone of your stature, I thought you could appreciate that one. Guess I was wrong. You seem to be able to comment on everything else intelligently mostly in a positive manner. I read the Kenpo section the most so I posted here. Opinions vary.
> 
> Karazenpo: I have always liked that one.
> 
> "There once was a man from Nantucket"...No I won't go there... lol



I'm sorry if you didn't like my humor, but your esoteric philosophical post, with all due respect, probably belongs in another section. I was attempting  to nudge you back toward the very pragmatic nature of Kenpo's practical applications and at the least training philosophies these sections were designed for. I meant no harm, and I do have a humorous side. Ask Joe, who is also pretty funny.


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## RRouuselot (Dec 14, 2004)

tmonis said:
			
		

> That's a hard one right? It is like who came first the chicken or the egg?


 
 The chicken is the egg..........


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## RRouuselot (Dec 14, 2004)

Here is another Chinese one for you:

_Go to battle, sharpen sword_


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## TigerWoman (Dec 14, 2004)

Here's another one, play nice or don't play at all, gentlemen. TW


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## tmonis (Dec 14, 2004)

Doc:

This post was meant for everyone to enjoy and to simply give you a few riddles to think about or at least see how you think about a certain phrase. Nothing more. As I have stated. I read the Kenpo section the most so I posted here under Kenpo General discussion. I am sorry if you think it should be some place else. Maybe it should be. But if it bothers you for being here. Than pass it by and read another thread. But by all means add to the thread if you like. 

TW: I agree with you, "play nice or not at all."

Robert: That is interesting about the Chicken is the egg.


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## TigerWoman (Dec 15, 2004)

tmonis said:
			
		

> OK round 4: An easy one. Love cannot know the measure of its depth until the hour of parting.
> 
> What do you think about this one?
> 
> Prof. Todd



Any other takers on this verse?   TW


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## tmonis (Dec 15, 2004)

TW: I guess it is just you and me on this thread now. Sorry about that. You are doing a great job with them however. Great thinking. Round 4 goes along with the saying "You truly don't miss something until it's gone." 
Can you guess the true meaning of missing someone? Sitting right beside them knowing you can never have or be with that person. That is a pretty heavy thought.

Anyway round 5:  Revenge is a double-edged sword that cuts both ways.

Give it a try.

Prof. Todd


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## TigerWoman (Dec 15, 2004)

tmonis said:
			
		

> Can you guess the true meaning of missing someone? Sitting right beside them knowing you can never have or be with that person. That is a pretty heavy thought.


 
How can you miss someone though, if one can never have...or be with that person?  That's desiring someone that isn't available in the first place to love. The love, between two people had to be shared for it to be missed when taken away. So maybe the love was not that deep. Having and being with a person is one's selfish desire. Love is unselfish. TW


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## TigerWoman (Dec 15, 2004)

tmonis said:
			
		

> Anyway round 5:  Revenge is a double-edged sword that cuts both ways.
> 
> Give it a try.
> 
> Prof. Todd




Maybe someone else will take a whack (pun intended) at this one first.
TW


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## tmonis (Dec 16, 2004)

TigerWoman said:
			
		

> How can you miss someone though, if one can never have...or be with that person? That's desiring someone that isn't available in the first place to love. The love, between two people had to be shared for it to be missed when taken away. So maybe the love was not that deep. Having and being with a person is one's selfish desire. Love is unselfish. TW


TW: Damn you are to good for me. I just knew I could catch on that one. lol lol.
Are you a Psych. Major or just a heavy thinker? Or maybe these are just not hard enough!  hummmmm. Let me see what I can do.:ultracool 

Todd


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## OnlyAnEgg (Dec 16, 2004)

TigerWoman said:
			
		

> Any other takers on this verse? TW





			
				OnlyAnEgg said:
			
		

> The absense of a thing can be more telling then the presence of a thing.


was my response, actually.

Re: revenge being a double-edged sword; well, i would think that anytime violence is used vengefully, you run the risk of it turning back to bite you.


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## tmonis (Dec 16, 2004)

OnlyAnEgg said:
			
		

> was my response, actually.
> 
> Re: revenge being a double-edged sword; well, i would think that anytime violence is used vengefully, you run the risk of it turning back to bite you.


Egg: I am sorry you are right. I got caught in Doc's stuff. That was a great job. 
Your answer about revenge is a very good to. 

Thanks for playing everyone. You guys have some great answers. This is meant to be fun. Before I move on to the next round. I would like to see if any different answers come in for this one.

Stand by for the next round.

Todd


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## TigerWoman (Dec 17, 2004)

tmonis said:
			
		

> Anyway round 5:  Revenge is a double-edged sword that cuts both ways.



Revenge is to hurt someone in the name of justice to make the original transgression right.  But the hurt is still there regardless, not salved by revenge, instead the act of revenge takes more from your own character because you've lowered yourself to the level of the original transgressor.

Not a psych anything but enjoy mental exercise. TW


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## tmonis (Dec 17, 2004)

Not a psych anything but enjoy mental exercise. TW[/QUOTE] 
You must be a mother then. Moms always have that 6th sense about them.%-}  I swear My mother knew everything about anything. Hell, I could almost swear she had eyes in the back of her head. :jedi1:  

You and Egg have very good answers. I can see this is not stimulating enough. I must dig deeper Grasshopper. lol

Ok lets put you mind to work. What do you think about this one?

"If a person dwells on the past, then they rob the present. But if they ignore the past, they may rob the future. The seeds of our destiny are nutured by the roots of our past."

Good Luck! I am sure none of you will need though. I have not been able to stump any of you yet. 

Prof. Todd


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## OnlyAnEgg (Dec 17, 2004)

tmonis said:
			
		

> "If a person dwells on the past, then they rob the present. But if they ignore the past, they may rob the future. The seeds of our destiny are nutured by the roots of our past."


Ahh, the linear vs. nonlinear time argument 

Inasmuch as we must live one event at a time, we have a linear sequence of time; however...and it's a big 'however'...we can arrest our progress by remaining in the past, reliving an event over and over and not moving on.  We can deny ourselves a calm and fairly decent future by not applying the lessons learned, in the past, to it.

We live in this moment; but, we do not have this moment until we've let go of the last moment.  We cannot prepare for the next moment unless we've experienced this one for all it offers.


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## TigerWoman (Dec 17, 2004)

tmonis said:
			
		

> "If a person dwells on the past, then they rob the present. But if they ignore the past, they may rob the future. The seeds of our destiny are nutured by the roots of our past."



If you live and think/dwell in the past, time will go on and not be filled with new experience. 

The lessons of known past problems, (like teeth/jaw problems) should be learned well (brushing) so they are not repeated in the future as they will be bigger problems of life then (no teeth, no eating enjoyment).  

The environment and genetics of the child determines the possibilities of his life.  It can also be compared to traditional martial arts.  The masters painstakingly planned through time, error and practice (roots) what is taught to the innocent to help him (seed) grow and mature in the art and become what is possible by genetics and training/environment.  I also have to include...age...can't start too late!   TW


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## Rich Parsons (Dec 18, 2004)

** Duplicate Posts Removed **

Rich Parsons
Martial Talk
Super Moderator


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## distalero (Dec 18, 2004)

OnlyAnEgg said:
			
		

> Ahh, the linear vs. nonlinear time argument
> 
> Inasmuch as we must live one event at a time, we have a linear sequence of time; however...and it's a big 'however'...we can arrest our progress by remaining in the past, reliving an event over and over and not moving on. We can deny ourselves a calm and fairly decent future by not applying the lessons learned, in the past, to it.
> 
> We live in this moment; but, we do not have this moment until we've let go of the last moment. We cannot prepare for the next moment unless we've experienced this one for all it offers.


All moments arise mutally. 

(heard off mic: "There, I've met your practical application, and raise you one not-especially-accurate description.")


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## still learning (Dec 19, 2004)

Better to be quiet and be thougth of being stupid, then open the mouth and remove all doubt.     .......Aloha


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## still learning (Dec 19, 2004)

Better to give the path to the Dog,then get bit by him.    .....Aloha


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## TigerWoman (Dec 19, 2004)

"A turtle travels only when it sticks its neck out" 

Korean Proverb  TW


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## OnlyAnEgg (Dec 19, 2004)

TigerWoman said:
			
		

> "A turtle travels only when it sticks its neck out"
> 
> Korean Proverb TW


I like this one a lot  

We only make real progress when we take a real risk.

jim


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## tmonis (Dec 19, 2004)

Awesome work everyone. You guys rock. I really enjoy your the different ways of thinking here. That was kind of like, If you don't learn from your mistakes, your DESTINY is to repeat history. And we all know what give us experience, making mistakes in life so we can learn and gain the wisdom not to make the same  mistakes twice. 

Egg: Great thinking with the whole time thing.

TW: Right on target. Both of you have the same picture, just a different way to look at it.

Still Learning: I liked both of the ones you sent in. There have been times that I thought the only time I opened my mouth was just to change feet. lol

TW: Yours reminds me of the old pharse we have heard of. "A trip of a thousand miles starts with the first step." 

Ok here we go again!  "It is not disgrace to lose if one has sought to win."

Good Luck and this one will be my last until January 3rd. I will going out of town for Christmas.

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to you all!!!!

Prof. Todd


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## OnlyAnEgg (Dec 20, 2004)

tmonis said:
			
		

> Ok here we go again! "It is not disgrace to lose if one has sought to win."
> 
> Good Luck and this one will be my last until January 3rd. I will going out of town for Christmas.
> 
> ...


A bit more challenging...seeking to win carries the implication that one is doing one's absolute best.  Giving all you have; but, not winning, is still a best effort and caries no shame.


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## TigerWoman (Dec 20, 2004)

tmonis said:
			
		

> "It is not disgrace to lose if one has sought to win."



If you put out your max effort and really try/risk to win in whatever contest you are engaging in, (against yourself or tournament) you will not lose because you are closer to your goal if only in practice. 

But if you only went through the motions and didn't try, nothing would be risked/ventured and nothing would be gained. Then it would be a opportunity lost so therefore a disgrace.

Just read yours, Only An Egg, you got the same, I'm just mcwordy!  TW


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## OnlyAnEgg (Dec 20, 2004)

This has really been an enlightening thread.  Beyond the analysis lay the root, within me, of these insights.  It has been helpful to me to look at the feelings beyond the platitudes.

Thanks


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## TigerWoman (Dec 20, 2004)

Here is a riddle/puzzle: 

What does man love more than life
Fear more than death or mortal strife
What the poor have, the rich require,
and what contented men desire,
What the miser spends and the spendthrift saves
And all men carry to their graves?

BTW, I found this on a Chinese riddle site but the answer :idunno: I will have to think on it.
So, ??? TW


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## OnlyAnEgg (Dec 20, 2004)

TigerWoman said:
			
		

> What does man love more than life
> Fear more than death or mortal strife
> What the poor have, the rich require,
> and what contented men desire,
> ...


The answer is 'nothing'


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## Mekosho (Dec 27, 2004)

Okay...so I saw this painted on a wall somewhere, but who's to say a chinese guy did'nt paint it????

   "Don't sweat the petty stuff, and don't pet the sweaty stuff" 
I live by this code...lol


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## TigerWoman (Dec 27, 2004)

Another puzzle:

Who makes it, has no need of it.  Who buys it, has no use for it.  Who
uses it can neither see nor feel it. ???

TW


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## TigerWoman (Dec 28, 2004)

Another proverb, I thought interesting...as I can relate...

Want a thing long enough and you don't
Chinese Proverb


I can see the longer I want my 2nd dan belt, the more it loses it's value.
TW


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