# Do-It-Yourself Martial Art



## Rocky5000 (Nov 27, 2006)

I am very interested in MA's but do not want to join a club or hire a private teacher, so I was wondering if there is a martial art that I can learn completely on my own. I am thinking about classical boxing (a punch bag, boxing gloves, skipping rope and some weights should get me started) but maybe you guys have other ideas. I would prefer learning an oriental MA but I have a feeling they will be too complicated to learn solo...


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## Cirdan (Nov 27, 2006)

No.

Join a club.


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## MJS (Nov 27, 2006)

Cirdan said:


> No.
> 
> Join a club.


 
I 2nd that!!:ultracool 

To further expand Rocky, there are a huge number of tapes, books and dvds on the market.  Its just not possible to pick up the fine points from those sources.  A book isn't going to tell you if you're doing something right or wrong.  There have been a number of threads of here regarding this very topic.  Using the search feature on here should lead you to those threads.

I agree with Cirdan...find a good school, with a qualified instructor, and do some good, hard training.  There are no shortcuts.

Mike


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## morph4me (Nov 27, 2006)

Any martial art, even classical boxing requires instruction. You can't just go and buy some gloves and a rope and bag and become a boxer, it's great cardio vascular exercise, but not boxing. If you buy video's and books, you still miss out on the subtleties that a trained instructor can show you, and if you're training incorrectly you have no feedback except injuries. 

Like Cirdan says, join a club.


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## Jade Tigress (Nov 27, 2006)

MJS said:


> I 2nd that!!:ultracool
> 
> To further expand Rocky, there are a huge number of tapes, books and dvds on the market.  Its just not possible to pick up the fine points from those sources.  A book isn't going to tell you if you're doing something right or wrong.  There have been a number of threads of here regarding this very topic.  Using the search feature on here should lead you to those threads.
> 
> ...




I couldn't agree more. If you're serious about training, really want to learn, and want to be effective, you need a good school with a qualified instructor. You won't be sorry taking that route.

P.S. Welcome to Martial Talk!


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## Rocky5000 (Nov 27, 2006)

morph4me said:


> Any martial art, even classical boxing requires instruction. You can't just go and buy some gloves and a rope and bag and become a boxer, it's great cardio vascular exercise, but not boxing. If you buy video's and books, you still miss out on the subtleties that a trained instructor can show you, and if you're training incorrectly you have no feedback except injuries.
> 
> Like Cirdan says, join a club.



Thanks guys, I'll think about it.


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## bydand (Nov 27, 2006)

Welcome to Martial Talk.  Go find a club, or instructor.  As for the advice given so far: read and head!


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## terryl965 (Nov 27, 2006)

MJS said:


> I 2nd that!!:ultracool
> 
> To further expand Rocky, there are a huge number of tapes, books and dvds on the market. Its just not possible to pick up the fine points from those sources. A book isn't going to tell you if you're doing something right or wrong. There have been a number of threads of here regarding this very topic. Using the search feature on here should lead you to those threads.
> 
> ...


 

I would suggest the same as MJS


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## Drac (Nov 27, 2006)

Seems everbody beat me to saying what I was going to...Read the above posts and heed them well...


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## Brian R. VanCise (Nov 27, 2006)

Welcome to MartialTalk and I would suggest that you go and find a good Training Hall!


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## Drac (Nov 27, 2006)

Is there some particular that you don't want to join a club???


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## Rocky5000 (Nov 27, 2006)

Drac said:


> Is there some particular that you don't want to join a club???




My experience with sports clubs is that I lack the endurance to make a long term commitment. I train enthusiastically for a few months, then I get tired of it and I quit. I guess I just don't have enough patience to work my way through all those belts, sad but true.... But I guess I should take your advice, join a club and try harder this time. Or maybe I'll go along with the punchbag idea just for the cardiovascular exercise....


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## Cirdan (Nov 27, 2006)

Rocky5000 said:


> My experience with sports clubs is that I lack the endurance to make a long term commitment. I train enthusiastically for a few months, then I get tired of it and I quit. I guess I just don't have enough patience to work my way through all those belts, sad but true.... But I guess I should take your advice, join a club and try harder this time. Or maybe I'll go along with the punchbag idea just for the cardiovascular exercise....


 
Don`t start training too hard at once. Too much can be the same as not enough. Belts don`t matter. Be patient, especcially with your self.


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## Grenadier (Nov 27, 2006)

Rocky5000 said:


> My experience with sports clubs is that I lack the endurance to make a long term commitment. I train enthusiastically for a few months, then I get tired of it and I quit. I guess I just don't have enough patience to work my way through all those belts


 

Don't look at it that way.  Think of it as each day, you're learning new material, and that the ranks are incentives to progress to that next level.  

Talk to the instructors of the various schools in the area.  Tell them exactly what you've told us, and be honest with what you want, and expect.  You may very well find a system that can accomodate your needs, and could very well make you stick around for the long term.


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## bydand (Nov 27, 2006)

Could it be that you just haven't found the art that suits you yet?  I know until I found the art I'm in now I had the same problem with training and working out.  Now that I found "my" art the training is no problem, just wish I could say the same about the working out part.


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## Xue Sheng (Nov 27, 2006)

Rocky5000 said:


> My experience with sports clubs is that I lack the endurance to make a long term commitment. I train enthusiastically for a few months, then I get tired of it and I quit. I guess I just don't have enough patience to work my way through all those belts, sad but true.... But I guess I should take your advice, join a club and try harder this time. Or maybe I'll go along with the punchbag idea just for the cardiovascular exercise....


 
Welcome to MT and everyone has already said pretty much what I would have said.

One thing though, don't worry about the belts, just train and enjoy the training.


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## chris_&#3617;&#3623;&#3618;&#3652;&#3607;&#3618; (Nov 27, 2006)

Xue Sheng said:


> One thing though, don't worry about the belts, just train and enjoy the training.


 

beat me to it!


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## Ceicei (Nov 27, 2006)

Rocky5000 said:


> My experience with sports clubs is that I lack the endurance to make a long term commitment. I train enthusiastically for a few months, then I get tired of it and I quit. I guess I just don't have enough patience to work my way through all those belts, sad but true.... But I guess I should take your advice, join a club and try harder this time. Or maybe I'll go along with the punchbag idea just for the cardiovascular exercise....



You might discover that trying to train on your own can be harder than training with a good group of friends.  It is easier to "burn out" on your own and lose motivation to continue.  Find a club where you feel comfortable and make friends with the people there.  It is easier to train when you have the support and friendship of others.

- Ceicei


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## KempoFlow (Nov 27, 2006)

I agree with Ceicei, I may be moving in the next year, and I can't imagine finding a new place to train because it feels like such a second family for me at the dojo.  Friends make it much easier.


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## PeaceWarrior (Nov 27, 2006)

What everyone else said 

Theres nothing wrong with wanting to train alone and get good exercise and such, but if you want to do that why not just take up running, or go to the gym and work out?  If you want to learn how to fight, you have to train with real people, plus have an experienced instructor who can correct and help you refine your technique.  You can punch a heavy bag all day, but that heavy bag will never hit you back.  You cant train reflexes, blocks, footwork, keeping your guard, distancing - any of these things required to learn an art (or 'system') by yourself.  

And besides, like Xue said, you shouldnt be worried about working your way through "all those belts" because thats not what martial arts are really about - its about training, and learning, and meeting a bunch of new friends (and personal body guards-hehe).  If you dont have patience at all, I suggest finding a good MMA school because they will teach you how to be a well rounded fighter in the shortest amount of time possible.  You could maybe find a school that isnt based on ranking (i.e. belts) but instead trains you hard so that you _know_ it will work.  Myself, I am a TMA practitioner and I wouldnt have it any other way. 

Good luck man

Peace

Keith


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## ArmorOfGod (Nov 27, 2006)

Why not just take boxing?  All of the gyms in my area are free to train at if you are 16 years old or younger.

Another idea if for you to build a martial arts workout group.  You could meet at a local park and work out with others.  You could find training partners through your local newpapers and at places like www.meetup.com

That would give you an environment focused on working out and no issue of ranks.

AoG


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## searcher (Nov 27, 2006)

I am with everyone on this.   I have trained in several MAs, including boxing.   Don't think that boxing is easy from it's simple appearance.   You can hurt yourself and pick up some very bad habits in the process.   Most boxing clubs have a minimal monthly fee and the coaches will give advice in a non-pushy/intimidating way.   You push yourself at your own rate.   It can be a very good place to be, not just for training.   

If you can't push yourself and be motivated in a boxing club you are most likely not going to push yourself on your own.   JMHO.


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## exile (Nov 27, 2006)

Ditto to all of the above. The instructional aspect is all-important: you really can't learn material of the technical depth most MAs contain on your own. But apart from that, you really should take into account the fact that most people find it much harder to motivate themselves when they're flying solo than when they're in the company of others who both share, and can further stimulate, their enthusiasm for some enterprise. The existence of a community of interest is for many people the basis of their pursuit of some domain of skill or knowledge. Being able to talk---literally!---with fellow learners about the fine points of throwing a punch, chambering the leg for a kick or moving to the inside or the outside in responding to an assailant's strike is not just a way to obtain crucial information, it's also a way of allowing the intensity of others' motivation to stimulate your own desire to continue to improve. So if, as you indicated in your second post,  _commitment_ is the main problem you have with continuing in activities you've gotten involved with, you'd be doing yourself much more of a favor by joining a club or taking a class than by trying to do it on your own, where you'll get none of that `reverb' to amplify your own dedication that you would from a group.


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## kosho (Nov 28, 2006)

Hi,
    Is there a system you would like to learn???  Once you find this, find a teacher who will fit your needs  not  there's.

second  train with your teacher 1 or 2 times a month for 2 hrs each class. this will give you the Info  and over seeing you are looking for  but will not make you feel tied down.

this gives you the space you want  and the power to push or not push at the speeds you what to learn.  once you get going  you may add more classes a few months  and then back down again.  but the key is  to keep it going. there are teachers out there that should have no issues with this scheadule.  and if they do move on... 

the system should become part of you.

not you become the system

also where are you liveing  maybe i could help you out with finding a school to help you...
 best of luck.
 steve


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## Rocky5000 (Nov 28, 2006)

First of all, thank you all for your reactions, I really appreciate it. After reading your comments I think the best approach would be to indeed join a club, but do my "homework" first, visit a lot of clubs before I make a decision.

What style I want to do, well I haven't figured that out yet, I think something self-defence oriented like jujitsu etc. Anyway I live in Belgium, should not be too hard to find a good club here.


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## exile (Nov 28, 2006)

Rocky5000 said:


> First of all, thank you all for your reactions, I really appreciate it. After reading your comments I think the best approach would be to indeed join a club, but do my "homework" first, visit a lot of clubs before I make a decision.



Good idea!



Rocky5000 said:


> What style I want to do, well I haven't figured that out yet, I think something self-defence oriented like jujitsu etc. Anyway I live in Belgium, should not be too hard to find a good club here.



Rocky---bear in mind that virtually _all_ martial arts are inherently `self-defence' oriented. The trick is not the art, but the way you train it. Karate or Taekwondo can be trained to yield good results under the nastiest hand-to-hand combat conditions---battlefield or critical-situation law enforcement---that you can imagine, but both can be trained for pure sport as well, and the difference between the way the resources of these arts are applied in the two respective types of situation is vast. And the same holds for other MAs which have various kinds of artificial rule-governed competitions as possible components of training. So when you visit these schools, make sure to ask a number of direct questions that will enable you to gain the information you need on this score:

---at what point in the curriculum are explicitly self-defense driven applications of the MA taught?

---what kind of self-dense defense drills are practiced? Is protection (padding, gloves etc.) used which potentially interferes with the realism of the self-defense apps (because the protective apparatus may make certain important techniques unusable)?

---if the MA uses forms or patterns, the way Japanese, Korean, Okinawan, Filipine and Chinese MAs do, are the self-defense apps concealed within these patterns extracted for use? Do students learn _how_ to parse patterns into chained self-defense scenarios?

---how much is training for point-scoring ring competition emphasized relative to street-combat applicability?

Talking to the school owner/senior instructor(s) about these particular questions will give you a much clearer idea of whether the training emphasized at the school you're visiting is what you're looking for.


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## IWishToLearn (Nov 28, 2006)

I agree with just about everything Exile said. Come to think of it, I usually agree with just about everything Ex chimes in with. ;-)

My only comment from my own experience mirrors what someone else said - I was suffering burnout with every style I studied just because it didn't really fit me. I needed a very logically organized system and teaching method - as well as access to someone with the answers to my constant desire to know WHY, HOW, and FOR WHAT PURPOSE I was learning anything I did. I found my home in Kenpo.


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## RED (Dec 14, 2006)

Hi Rocky,
Welcome to the forum. I'm new here myself. I was in a similar frame of mind as you. Wanting to be self taught. For me though it was money. I started classes then rates would get out of control. I though of it as a McDojang / Mc Dojo. But with plenty of searching at local churches and clubs I found one that is very economical and teaches more than most of the schools I've attended. Yes my situation is a little different from yours. But I have found that if I'm not learning at the school I loose interest. I went into schools charging me $250 a month and I would spar black belts that where obviously well payed for. It became very discouraging for me when I didn't have the extra cash to pay for my next belt so I wouldn't move on to the next level although my technique and sparring was better than SOME of the black belts. Thus, I wasn't learning and lost even more intrest. Recognition is a tricky thing. I stopped focusing on belts too. When I workout I wear my original Whtie belt I got back in the '80s. When it is black I will have a black belt. Maybe you can judge your own progress with something (a belt) that can take your attention off of levels / ranks. Also, have you considered finding a workout partner? This is a big help for accountability.

LOL,


Hope I don't offend anyone with the Mc Dojang comment. 
I don't mean to disrespect anyone, just my experience.


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## ArmorOfGod (Dec 14, 2006)

RED said:


> But with plenty of searching at local churches and clubs I found one that is very economical and teaches more than most of the schools I've attended.


 
I agree completely!  Excellent point.

AoG


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## shrek (Feb 2, 2007)

Rocky5000 said:


> My experience with sports clubs is that I lack the endurance to make a long term commitment. I train enthusiastically for a few months, then I get tired of it and I quit. I guess I just don't have enough patience to work my way through all those belts, sad but true.... But I guess I should take your advice, join a club and try harder this time. Or maybe I'll go along with the punchbag idea just for the cardiovascular exercise....


 
I would actually suggest an art that doesn't USE belt ranking...there is almost always at least one school in every major city that does this...more of a traditional style like Chinese Goju..look around  .  Your belt is there to hold your gi closed and in some cases it makes a handy grappling location to throw someone.  A club is also a great way to go because they generally aren't all about the belt, they are about personal knowledge & personal acheivement.  

You can go to many places and "Receive your black belt within a year"...these places are dubious at best and negligent at worst...either way it's not a good thing.  Black belt mills just give our whole industry a black eye.


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## Kwiter (Feb 4, 2007)

To paraphrase Daffy Duck Subtlety shmutelty, I just want to be able to punch holes in a brick wall and knock chunks out of 4*4 beams oh yeah and maybe leap 30 feet in the air like them folks in Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon ;-)


Or maybe the Conan School, "To crush my enemies......."

You can learn something from the Videos but you won't realize the things yer inadvertantly buggering up, tho that may not be all bad. Lookit 
Bill Wallace, only kicks with one leg but if he hits you WOW he ain't called Superfoot for nothing eh! Not exactly the same idea true but similar gist.

Methinks if you "learn" via tape you'll get something but unlikely the whole concept.

Quack Fu and you ;-)

Daffy's actual line was "Consequences Shmonsequences as long as I'm rich"


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## KeeblerElf (Feb 7, 2007)

I wanted to try to learn the martial arts like not through a large class because I was always afraid of messing up, and I never actually did it (I learned several musical instruments instead) then I joined a class and I got a great instructor who really cares about how much we learn and what else we get out of the class and also about us individually. Now I think taking classes is the only way to go. They can correct mistakes that will cause injury or make the technique ineffective. 

As for the belt rankings, I view working towards earning my next belt as reaching a goal and accomplishing a part of my training. It's not wow look at my new belt, it's wow, look what I can do. Which is how I feel after I learn each new technique.

I hope you find a school that you like!


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## Shaderon (Feb 14, 2007)

Keebler, I totally agree with you, I never realised it was that way before but I enjoy grading mostly so I can learn new things, it gives me a part-milestone and makes me feel good that I can get on to the next part of my learning.

The Aikido class I used to go to used a white to black belt method, and to be honest it left us stabbing around in the dark a little, but that could have been a bit because of the uncaringness of the instructors.

Rocky I know I'm not as experienced as everyone else here but I echo that you need to find a class.  I have the same problem as you, I run out of steam after a while when something's no longer "new" and exciting.  

I've found that having grades and them being four times a year gives me that bit of excitement and "something new" every three months and stretches me enough to stay interested.   I've never stuck with anything for over 6 months, I get bored after four and then tail off.    You have to find "your art" too, I've found you can't just study anything, Karate left me cold for example, I didn't even go to a single class, just watched one.


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