# Don't Forget about Black Sash



## fist of fury (Mar 28, 2003)

Should be this sunday

http://www.tvtome.com/tvtome/servlet/ShowMainServlet/showid-11368/


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## tarabos (Mar 28, 2003)

i don't have very high hopes for it right now since i saw the rest of the cast...but i hope it proves me wrong.


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## fist of fury (Mar 28, 2003)

Yeah I'm afraid it's going to suck also. But I'm hoping it won't.


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## tarabos (Mar 28, 2003)

i thought it would be russel wong running around the city kicking people's asses all over the place. now that i see the preview it looks like the MTV veejay wannabees are going to be doing it for him most of the time. looks like another miss for the WB to me...Birds of Prey anyone?


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## fist of fury (Mar 28, 2003)

That's WB's motto .....Pretty white kids with problems. They just throw on some eye candy and hope for the best. Birds of prey was great.......A great reminder why I don't watch much T.V. anymore.


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## tarabos (Mar 28, 2003)

> _Originally posted by fist of fury _
> *That's WB's motto .....Pretty white kids with problems. They just throw on some eye candy and hope for the best. Birds of prey was great.......A great reminder why I don't watch much T.V. anymore. *



LMAO....:rofl:


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## baronv (Mar 28, 2003)

Speaking of Russel Wong, anyone know where to get his Vanishing Son tv series on tape somewhere? I liked it when it used to be on since it was one if not one of the handful of shows to have an asian as the lead. It think it lasted a season or two only.


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## tarabos (Mar 30, 2003)

ok...just got done watching the first show. i enjoyed it, not too bad. the previews reallly threw me off, got me thinking they would focus mostly on the kids. but it seems that the focus is 75% russel wong...so that's good.

good fight scenes...not including the teen actors...pretty decent production value.

i'll watch again...


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## Kenpo Wolf (Mar 31, 2003)

> _Originally posted by tarabos _
> *ok...just got done watching the first show. i enjoyed it, not too bad. the previews reallly threw me off, got me thinking they would focus mostly on the kids. but it seems that the focus is 75% russel wong...so that's good.
> 
> good fight scenes...not including the teen actors...pretty decent production value.
> ...



That's pretty much my opinion as well. I thought it was a decent show, which was more then I was expecting.


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## cali_tkdbruin (Mar 31, 2003)

> _Originally posted by tarabos _
> *i thought it would be russel wong running around the city kicking people's asses all over the place.  *



Just viewed the first episode, and yup Russell Wong did end up kicking a bunch of guys asses in the final scene in true manly man style. It was the stereotypical one MA guy against an army of bad guys...


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## Samurai (Mar 31, 2003)

I did not like the spilt screen scenes.  It was like watching picture in picture.  

All in all I liked the show and will tape it next week.  It is on when I am trying to get my kids in bed so I was only watching it halfway.  I did tape it so I can watch it again.

Thanks
Jeremy Bays


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## tarabos (Mar 31, 2003)

> _Originally posted by cali_tkdbruin _
> *Just viewed the first episode, and yup Russell Wong did end up kicking a bunch of guys asses in the final scene in true manly man style. It was the stereotypical one MA guy against an army of bad guys...  *



that's what it's all about!


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## tarabos (Mar 31, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Samurai _
> *I did not like the spilt screen scenes.  It was like watching picture in picture.
> 
> All in all I liked the show and will tape it next week.  It is on when I am trying to get my kids in bed so I was only watching it halfway.  I did tape it so I can watch it again.
> ...



agreed...

the split screen thing is a bit disorienting. i know they're just trying to be unique, but it gets on my nerves and i hope they do away with it if i'm going to be watching this show.


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## fist of fury (Mar 31, 2003)

I'm still somewhat uncertain about the show yes the martial arts was decent. However WB is continuing with it's traditional PWSKWP-pretty white skinny kids with problems. Sprinkle some cheesy coporate rock bands album through out the show,advertise said album. Set up sexual tension between characters and an angry chracter and other teeny soap opera like qualities and oh yeah lets put some martial arts in it also.  I hope it gets better but I still have my doubts. I'll still watch the show unless it gets really bad.


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## cali_tkdbruin (Mar 31, 2003)

> _Originally posted by tarabos _
> *that's what it's all about!  *



You're right, and I guess that's why we watch, to see people get their *** kicked Hollywood style...


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## Quick Sand (Mar 31, 2003)

I missed it last night but my brother taped it for me so I'll probably get to see it tonight. Since many of you said it was decent I expect I'll like it. I'll report back.


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## cali_tkdbruin (Mar 31, 2003)

> _Originally posted by fist of fury _
> *I'm still somewhat uncertain about the show yes the martial arts was decent. However WB is continuing with it's traditional PWSKWP-pretty white skinny kids with problems. Sprinkle some cheesy coporate rock bands album through out the show,advertise said album. Set up sexual tension between characters and an angry chracter and other teeny soap opera like qualities and oh yeah lets put some martial arts in it also.  I hope it gets better but I still have my doubts. I'll still watch the show unless it gets really bad. *



Yup, it was pretty much what I expected from what I previously heard and the reviews I had read. It was that pre-packaged type of cheesey WB TV show with the predictable storyline. Well at least the scraps were fairly decent. I'll watch it again for the action...


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## Chicago Green Dragon (Mar 31, 2003)

I got a chance to watch it and I enjoyed the show. But, I too hated the split screen. That was just a bit too irritating.

Hope in the future shows they have someone looking at the talk groups like this for some opinions on some of the good and bad parts of the show. I think if they do it will last a bit longer.

Just my opinion.

Green Dragon
Chicago  :asian:


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## Zepp (Mar 31, 2003)

Ok, so I guess Russel Wong's character is both an ex-cop turned martial arts instructor, and Batman (minus the costume).  Naturally, he never takes a single hit while fighting 5 or 6 bad guys.

Overall, it's an ok show, but the plot lines are going to have to get less predictable if they want to keep me watching for more than a few more episodes.

Why are so many TV writers scared of originality?


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## Aikikitty (Mar 31, 2003)

I watched it and thought it was interesting.  I hope they continue to focus on the teacher's character and not the kids.

Robyn


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## islandtime (Apr 2, 2003)

> _Originally posted by The Opal Dragon _
> *I watched it and thought it was interesting.  I hope they continue to focus on the teacher's character and not the kids.
> 
> Robyn *


....................................................................................

I liked it.. Like everyone says. Cute kids with problems.. But,,,aren't we all?

I loved that martial art.. Hollywood-fu .
BUT
. The center ring and the door sign were kind of Pa-Qua,Bag Wa, or Hsing-I if anyone is familiar with that style chime in.
 I have seen a demo in the past where the movements were associated with the I-Ching.

Any thoughts?

Gene Gabel:asian:


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## Samurai (Apr 3, 2003)

The martial arts were called "Way of 8 Harmonies" or something like that in the show.  I was very much Pa-Kua (Bagua).  At one point Wong even said that
"OK class, first palm change".


Thanks
Jeremy Bays


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## Michael Billings (Apr 3, 2003)

is what we did decades ago??

-Michael


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## cali_tkdbruin (Apr 7, 2003)

OKay, so what are  the thoughts and critiques about last night's *B-Sash* episode? Good, bad, or IYO what?

:asian:


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## fist of fury (Apr 7, 2003)

> _Originally posted by cali_tkdbruin _
> *OKay, so what are  the thoughts and critiques about last night's B-Sash episode? Good, bad, or IYO what?
> 
> :asian: *



Still not very good. It's turning out to be dawson's creek with some martial arts here and there. Too much focus on the students and not enough with the teacher.


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## brianhunter (Apr 7, 2003)

I didnt mind it so much, My wife was cursing the judge out over the judges decision on his daughter, For awhile it will probably have to revolve or rotate through characters untill they are all established. I did like the fight scenes and "eye candy" is not always a bad thing. I definately will keep watching and taping I think it will get even better once they have all the characters established and the group dynamic is set up.


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## Michael Billings (Apr 7, 2003)

The quality of the production is good.  One of the 1st modern shows that focuses on Martial Arts.  Maybe we need, well not Dawson's Creek, but some modern show that portrays the Arts and can appeal to a larger student base.  Of course I am saying this as a school owner, and someone who enjoyed the show.  I am hoping the Martial part of it continues to develop ... but I do not think it will stay on the air without "hooking" some type of audience larger than Martial Artists.

Those who were alive and practicing when the first KARATE KID came out, remember the HUGE boost to the Arts.  Not that I liked the movie, but it filled schools like nothing before.  I limit my enrollment, so it would not affect me, however, it is always good for all the Arts when the public identifies with Martial Arts in a good way.

By the way, did I say I liked the show?  I did and I do.

-Michael


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## Aikikitty (Apr 7, 2003)

AAAHH!!!  I totally forgot to watch it last night!  Rats, it's only the second episode and it sounds like some people liked it.  I'll have to try to remember to catch it next week.

Robyn :asian:


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## Chicago Green Dragon (Apr 7, 2003)

The Second episode was good. I enjoyed watching it. 
Plus, I have always enjoyed watching Maco in different roles.


Chicago Green 
Dragon   :asian:


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## Chicago Green Dragon (Apr 7, 2003)

I didnt like how the judge voted either. But, it was nice to see his students come together after in the end and take him out to eat. You can totally see that the mom and he new bow are only out for their own good in this series and not for his daughter.
They keep refering back to his conviction in hong kong where he was framed. I guess they never make any mistakes or anything like that. I feel for the guy trying to be a part of his daughters life. Since, the judge left it in her hands to wait for now.
Hopefully, she will spend more time with him in the future.

I am glad to see the kid (who father is in jail for beating him) finally break away from his violent white trash father. I got a bit worried he was going to go down that same path with his father controling the strings a bit. It was nice to see his buddy intervene when he was going to walk out with the gun to see hector the slime ball. Its good to see friends be there for you when you need them.

:soapbox: 


Chicago Green
Dragon   :asian:


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## tarabos (Apr 7, 2003)

> _Originally posted by cali_tkdbruin _
> *OKay, so what are  the thoughts and critiques about last night's B-Sash episode? Good, bad, or IYO what?
> 
> :asian: *



man...that second episode was bad with a capital suck.

even the one short, little fight scene was garbage with all the slow motion crap they did during it. i think i've got the jist of the show here now. russell wong cries about his daughter for about half the show...the pretty boys and girls cry about their problems for the other half until russell wong finally goes and kicks whoever's butt that's giving them the problem, providing us with one measley little 2-3 minute fight scene at the end of the show.

time for a re-write. and also time to get a real action director on board.


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## Michael Billings (Apr 7, 2003)

Unlikely to make it in today's genre of shows if they do pure action.  And yes, I would like it if they did.  I loved the fight scene in Romeo must die.  But it ain't gonna happen on the WB.

-Michael


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## tarabos (Apr 7, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Michael Billings _
> *But it ain't gonna happen on the WB.
> *



it could... 

depends on what you want to focus on in your show. you can still have a good storyline with good action. 

i won't totally judge a show on the first couple episodes...usually the first season. so i'll give the show a few more chances because i think it has potential that needs to be tapped. some of my favorites on tv were pretty stinky the first few episodes...retooling is key.


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## Michael Billings (Apr 7, 2003)

... after all, I liked Babylon 5 ... til the bitter end.  I hope it does get more "Martial", let's see, would the same amount of violence seen on Buffy be enough?  Bloodless though it is, it has a high VQ (violence quotent.)

-Michael


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## michaeledward (Apr 7, 2003)

> _Originally posted by cali_tkdbruin _
> *OKay, so what are  the thoughts and critiques about last night's B-Sash episode? Good, bad, or IYO what?
> 
> :asian: *



Yawn .... .

To think, I missed Law & Order for this ... 

And what the hell is the dance routine doing in the show? Must be that 'synergy' crap that has allows a handful of media companies to control the universe.


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## tarabos (Apr 7, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Michael Billings _
> *... after all, I liked Babylon 5 ... til the bitter end.  I hope it does get more "Martial", let's see, would the same amount of violence seen on Buffy be enough?  Bloodless though it is, it has a high VQ (violence quotent.)
> 
> -Michael *



the "buffy point" you made is one that hits home where this show is concerned. buffy (and even Angel...one of my favorites shows of all time) has tons of martial arts action, weapons and open handed...it's all good. this is all done with actors that are really not martial artists at all in their own right, that require the use of stunt doubles.

then here we have russel wong...an accomplished movie martial artist with great talent...whos talents are being underused at this point. either have a really good plot with fair martial arts, or have reallly good martial arts action or at least a focus on martial arts and different types of it with a so-so storyline.


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## Michael Billings (Apr 7, 2003)

... and hopefully it will get better.  But the lack of response on this thread pretty much indicates what most people thought of it.

Too Bad,
-Michael


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## Kirk (Apr 7, 2003)

I missed the 2nd episode, but liked the first.  But for improvement,
my vote would be to keep the stories, but more fighting .. be it
in his kwoon, or elsewhere.  I was a big fan of Walker, Texas 
Ranger (I know many here weren't, probaby cause of the heavy
TKD influence) .. it had a story, and it had fighting ... it rarely was
without both.  The only problem I had with it (actually it was the
wife, she has to keep pointing it out) is that Walker's woman kept
being victimized.  As my wife keeps saying, "she needs to just 
dump him, he's getting into too much trouble".


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## Kenpo Wolf (Apr 8, 2003)

I liked this episode but not as much as the one which was on last week. His students should have went into the court room to offer him support rather then wait for him outside


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## tarabos (Apr 8, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Kirk _
> *I missed the 2nd episode, but liked the first.  But for improvement,
> my vote would be to keep the stories, but more fighting .. be it
> in his kwoon, or elsewhere.  I was a big fan of Walker, Texas
> ...



the thing that seemed to work about walker is that it was always just the same campy good vs. evil story in every episode...never anything that took itself too seriously. if you take your storyline seriously...you'll have to back it up with great twists and turns and good character development. walker had aimiable characters, and walker himself never got the beat down, he was always dishing them out with the spinning backfist and the spinning rear kick...always landed!

black sash relies on the kids a bit too much. and you can tell that they really didn't make much of an effort to cast any teens that could actually sell the stuff on screen, and they can't act of course...it's all about the looks.

look at power rangers when it came out, the kids were bad actors, fairly good looking, but one thing that set them apart is that just about all of them could move for the camera, the black sash kids can't.


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## mtabone (Apr 20, 2003)

I watched Black Sash tonight. I stayed home to watch it. I can't believe I watched it. There is so much more potential for that show then what is shown on that screen. It is interesting to me though, that the WB, believes, that Teen age puppy love will help out the demagraphics on this kinda of show. Anyone remember the old Kung Fu? While there where some touches on "Love" and "lovers" it was never a central theme. There is tons of stuff to create dramatic story lines from, not to mention more Martial Arts fighting, to take up the time. It just seemed very fomalized too. 

So in the End, I am conflicted, because I like it, and hate it all at the same time. Russ Wong is a gifted martial artist, whos talent is not being shown. And the premise has much potential, I don't like the ideas in that writing room. 

Is there a way to Email the "FROG" and tell them to save this potentialy great TV show????


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## Quick Sand (Apr 20, 2003)

I've actually seen all 4 episodes of this show. I enjoy it. No, it's not the best show I've ever seen. I wish it would show more of the actual training they do, more fighting etc. . .  But one point I'd like to make is that I don't think the show is made to be directed at real martial artists. I think it's geared to the average teen who knows little/nothing about martial arts but likes to see a bit of fighting, some teenage angst that they can relate to and some good looking people with a bit of a story line. I also think it's geared to a much younger audience then many of the people on this board. Just stuff to keep in mind.

My 2 cents. 


 :soapbox:  Stepping down now.


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## brianhunter (Apr 21, 2003)

Well last night was probably my favorite episode yet, the characters have been established to an extent so the story didnt seem to drag as much.
The fight at the end of the show was enjoyable for me too! and "tradition sucks" cracked me up.
Ill keep tuning in I guess :asian:


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## tarabos (Apr 21, 2003)

> _Originally posted by brianhunter _
> *Well last night was probably my favorite episode yet, the characters have been established to an extent so the story didnt seem to drag as much.
> The fight at the end of the show was enjoyable for me too! and "tradition sucks" cracked me up.
> Ill keep tuning in I guess :asian: *



i liked that episode the best as well i think. i had a "karate kid" type feel to it...all cheesy and what not. battle for the school...lol...doesn't get any better than that. plus the guy they got to play the son did some great work.

i still don't understand why they do all the slow mo and the special camera effects when russel wong has a fight on the show...it's distracting.

i'd say it's getting better though.


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## brianhunter (Apr 21, 2003)

yeah master lees son fit the part pretty well......and I agree with wong fighting you really dont need all the jazz behind the cameras just let him do his things. I was on the wb website and one of the producers is responsible for the karate kid hahahaha.

I also noticed bau gua videos and the palm changes popping up on websites, at least its getting some martial arts on tv!


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## Crazy Chihuahua (Apr 21, 2003)

Did no one else find that they try to cram too many plotlines into a single episode?
From an analytical stanpoint based purely on dramatic value, not even considering that there could be way more fighting in the show, they don't develop the plots well enough, because there are too many to expand on in a single, one-hour show!
Maybe I'm way off base, but in my dramatic experience, the best plays can afford to have many subplots and interminglings, because they are longer than one hour minus commercial breaks. In an hour show, which ends up be like 40 minutes of story after you take out commercials and intro/credits, there just isn't time to run 3 or 4 plots in one show. I think they should stick to one or two well-developed plotlines per show, increase the volume of actual martial arts, this could include the sifu actually TEACHING the students, not just watching them do forms, and that would clean the show up enough to allow for a fairly long-running series, as some of the actors on that show do have a measure of talent that allows for believable performance and is enjoyable to watch.
Let me know if you agree or if I'm way off, here.


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## fist of fury (Apr 22, 2003)

I liked sunday's episode better than the pas ones although it still needs improvement. I agree with Crazy Chihuahua they are trying to force to many plot lines at once. And I wish they would drop the teenine soap opera angle now that everybody has "hooked up" maybe they will tone that crap down.


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## MartialArtist (Apr 23, 2003)

I caught all the episodes.  Too much drama.  If I wanted testosterone-drive soap opera, I could watch the WWF.

But I found that in almost every episode, there is one guy who symbolizes something.  That new kid who studied hundreds of martial arts and had no good base in anything, taking every bit they can from every art possible...  Then wanting to learn a specific style by hearing stories such as I wanna beat up multiple people at once.  Tons of people came to mind.  Then with that badass dude who beat up his students.  Reminded me of my instructors.  Only difference was, that they knew when the stop hitting, helped you up, brushed you off, and made you run.  And they wouldn't kick you out for laughing or saying something, because they know that during sparring session, they'll take you down and will be laughing at you.  The instructors never really "beat up" a student like that guy did, that guy did it out of smite.


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