# how to find a quality dojang



## sinthetik_mistik (Jul 5, 2015)

I love TKD it is my favorite martial art and I really don't want to switch to a different martial art but I feel like at some point I won't have much choice as EVERY SINGLE dojang I look at near where I live is the same old story, kiddie money machines. I mean i've looked at like 5 different dojangs, and the one I have been training at is the same. I'm one of the only adults and they try to put their hands in my pocket every time the opportunity presents itself. it's almost like TKD has been infected with some kind of virus... i look at other martial arts and it seems to be much less of a problem than with TKD, but TKD is the one i want! maybe i'll just stay with my current school despite all its problems idk... i have learned a lot from it and had some really good times... but like the Grandmaster disrespected me last week and i have an ego so i'm gonna have to exercise humility to even bow to him next time i see him as is customary. i guess I could take Muay Thai or something... Kickboxing maybe. i've just made progress in TKD and it'd be a shame to throw it all away now. i live in Alpharetta/Roswell/Johns Creek area which is about 45 min north of Atlanta, GA, on the off chance anyone on this site lives in this area or even if you don't live here know about a quality dojang with more than 3 adults that doesn't charge you 350$ for sparring gear please do let me know, thanks!


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## TrueJim (Jul 6, 2015)

Hey, years ago I lived in Alpharetta for a while!

If you want Kukkiwon/WTF-style taekwondo, the Kukkiwon has a dojang-finder here: http://kms.kukkiwon.or.kr/usr/main.do

To find a dojang, keep clicking on the map to zoom into your area until you get a Google map that has local dojangs listed in your area. Keep in mind this only lists the dojangs that bother to register with the Kukkiwon. Here's one, for example that looks good: Yong In TMA Yong In TMA

There's also a big tournament coming up in your area next month. My son and I will probably be there: http://www.usyongintkd.com/doc/Program-Book-Final1.pdf

Personally, I would not pursue Tiger Rock taekwondo. It's such a niche style that if you were to ever relocate you'd never find another school doing the same style. Also, you'll never find any local tournaments to attend.


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## TrueJim (Jul 6, 2015)

Here's some more info; all of these are registered with the Kukkiwon...

*Yong In Tiger Martial Arts* - John's Creek - Yong In TMA Yong In TMA - they have a Demo Team (which is nice) and real Olympic-style sparring (also nice). They have adult/family classes Monday-Friday. It looks like they also offer Judo twice a week? Their website is professional and informative, and they have an active Facebook page. Yongin Tiger Martial Arts - Johns Creek GA - School Facebook - It looks like most of the instructors are Korean. The head of the school is Kukkiwon 7th dan, which is also nice. This looks like a good choice.


*J.Y. Song Taekwondo* - two schools in Douglasville and Burford - J.Y. Song - TaeKwonDo Atlanta -  The head of the school is Kukkiwon 9th dan! He started at Chung Do Kwan. This is probably a good choice too. Their website is less informative.

*Master Plus Martial Arts* - Alpharetta and Roswell - Home Sandy Springs Martial Arts Summer Camps and After school program - the head of the school doesn't have a bio on the website, but he's wearing the gold-top dobok and there are Kukkiwon logos everywhere, so I assume he's at least Kukkiwon 7th dan? They have a Facebook page too - Master Pius Martial Arts - Atlanta GA - Martial Arts Facebook - Assuming the location is more convenient than the two listed above, this is probably worth taking a look at.


SaeHan Taekwondo Academy - Alpharetta - they don't appear to have a website, just a Facebook page - SaeHan Taekwondo Academy - Alpharetta Georgia - Sports Recreation Facebook - there's so little information about the school on their Facebook page, it's hard to know anything about this school.


Song Moo Do Martial Arts College - Duluth - Song Moo Do Martial Arts College - even though this school is Kukkiwon-registered, they advertise themselves as a Song Moo Do school rather than a taekwondo school? Also, the head of the school's bio...he doesn't list a lot of credentials. I'd be wary of this one.


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## sinthetik_mistik (Jul 6, 2015)

TrueJim said:


> Here's some more info; all of these are registered with the Kukkiwon...
> 
> *Yong In Tiger Martial Arts* - John's Creek - Yong In TMA Yong In TMA - they have a Demo Team (which is nice) and real Olympic-style sparring (also nice). They have adult/family classes Monday-Friday. It looks like they also offer Judo twice a week? Their website is professional and informative, and they have an active Facebook page. Yongin Tiger Martial Arts - Johns Creek GA - School Facebook - It looks like most of the instructors are Korean. The head of the school is Kukkiwon 7th dan, which is also nice. This looks like a good choice.
> 
> ...



wow, you really did research... thank you so much!!! some of them are too far but three of them are options... i'll look into these schools. i don't know what to say man, i really appreciate the fact that you actually did research for me (since you live in Virginia that's what i'm guessing) hopefully at least one of these schools will be legit... peace bro


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## sinthetik_mistik (Jul 6, 2015)

TrueJim said:


> Hey, years ago I lived in Alpharetta for a while!
> 
> If you want Kukkiwon/WTF-style taekwondo, the Kukkiwon has a dojang-finder here: K.M.S Unifying the world with Taekwondo We are the KUKKIWON family
> 
> ...



oh ok i just saw this post, i will definitely use the dojang finder... thanks a bunch!


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## sinthetik_mistik (Jul 6, 2015)

TrueJim said:


> It looks like most of the instructors are Korean. The head of the school is Kukkiwon 7th dan



3 out of the 4 instructors at my current teachers are Korean, and my Grandmaster is 9th dan I think... but yeah thanks tho


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## Earl Weiss (Jul 7, 2015)

Check your local park districts, community centers, JCC / YMCA. If they have clubs, there is no 24/7/365 overhead so they don't have to be as concerned with paying the bills.


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## sinthetik_mistik (Jul 7, 2015)

Earl Weiss said:


> Check your local park districts, community centers, JCC / YMCA. If they have clubs, there is no 24/7/365 overhead so they don't have to be as concerned with paying the bills.


cool thanks... couldn't find any... i've actually decided that i judged my dojang too harshly  and i'm gonna stick with it


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## andyjeffries (Jul 8, 2015)

sinthetik_mistik said:


> 3 out of the 4 instructors at my current teachers are Korean, and my Grandmaster is 9th dan I think... but yeah thanks tho



I wouldn't be affected by rank as the deciding factor (to me, the "tho" in your message comes across as "thanks anyway, but I have a higher ranked instructor already").  I would say it depends on how up to date the instructor has kept.  I'm lucky - my instructor is 8th Dan Kukkiwon and 9th Dan Changmookwan and is always going to Korea to do various courses and train with other dojangs, so he is absolutely up to date.

I have met others in my country that have for example never trained at the Kukkiwon, even though they have high dan, and they keep doing things exactly the same as they always have without trying to learn from the best instructors the world has to offer.


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## sinthetik_mistik (Jul 8, 2015)

andyjeffries said:


> I wouldn't be affected by rank as the deciding factor (to me, the "tho" in your message comes across as "thanks anyway, but I have a higher ranked instructor already").  I would say it depends on how up to date the instructor has kept.  I'm lucky - my instructor is 8th Dan Kukkiwon and 9th Dan Changmookwan and is always going to Korea to do various courses and train with other dojangs, so he is absolutely up to date.
> 
> I have met others in my country that have for example never trained at the Kukkiwon, even though they have high dan, and they keep doing things exactly the same as they always have without trying to learn from the best instructors the world has to offer.



for me the deciding factor is that i get a great workout, most of the instructors are super nice, it is near my house (which may sound like a dumb factor but yeah), and simply of all the martial arts i have any experience in, TKD is my favorite for sure, and i searched around for a better TKD school in my area and was unable to find one... all the things i don't like about my dojang are also problems with the other dojangs in my area, but there are so many things i do like... they know i have asthma so they are always telling me to take a break whenever i need to, (which i always do at least once a class usually 2-3 times in the hour)


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## TrueJim (Jul 8, 2015)

sinthetik_mistik said:


> ...it is near my house (which may sound like a dumb factor but yeah)...



I don't think that's a dumb factor. I think a lot of people (myself included) will attend class a lot more often at a good school that's convenient than a great school that's not.


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## sinthetik_mistik (Jul 8, 2015)

TrueJim said:


> I don't think that's a dumb factor. I think a lot of people (myself included) will attend class a lot more often at a good school that's convenient than a great school that's not.



yeah when your whole body is tired from an hour of intense training a 45 minute drive can most definitely be a hassle


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## donald1 (Jul 9, 2015)

How did the GM disrespect you?


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## sinthetik_mistik (Jul 9, 2015)

donald1 said:


> How did the GM disrespect you?



He snapped at me... once for holding my nunchucks wrong and once for holding up my fists wrong


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## Earl Weiss (Jul 9, 2015)

sinthetik_mistik said:


> He snapped at me... once for holding my nunchucks wrong and once for holding up my fists wrong



Instructors are human. If you search for the perfect human being as an instructor you will surely be disappointed.   Keep in mind that Instructors can have bad days  and be irritable due to other factors. 

That being said I  have been known to snap after making the same correction with the same student 42 times.


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## sinthetik_mistik (Jul 9, 2015)

I mean i'd be hypocritical to look for the "perfect human being" as i am in no wise a perfect human being myself... i've snapped at people before. how often you snap is a factor. if you snap once in a while as you said making the same correction 42 times that's one thing, but if you snap every 5 minutes that's something else. there is one African American teenager in our class who i have seen my Grandmaster rag on for like 20 minutes straight on more than one occasion which makes me wonder if he is racist. there are three other instructors in my dojang, all three of which are very nice, patient, and understanding. they don't snap like ever


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## donald1 (Jul 9, 2015)

sinthetik_mistik said:


> He snapped at me... once for holding my nunchucks wrong and once for holding up my fists wrong



Just curious, when you say "snapped"? Was he really angry? Strange, but none the less hopefully all will work out for you. Good luck figuring out what choices to make!


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## sinthetik_mistik (Jul 9, 2015)

donald1 said:


> Just curious, when you say "snapped"? Was he really angry? Strange, but none the less hopefully all will work out for you. Good luck figuring out what choices to make!



yeah he gets pissed off *all the time* i'm starting to get tired of it in my opinion he needs an attitude adjustment, granted he trained military in hand to hand combat so he's probably mister Rogers to us compared to how he was with them... but still, yeah he gets pissed and oftentimes i can't understand what he's saying from his thick Korean accent and he's like "Why you no listen to me?" and i'm like cause i can't understand you! (I don't actually say that) the other night he was slapping people, not on the face but on the legs, because their stance was off, so he was slapping their legs while telling them off. i just don't agree with the philosophy of "get mad every time a student makes a mistake" but i'm gonna put up with him for now... he does have massive credentials, like on the wall of the dojang there are like 80 awards he won and much else besides. but yeah the other instructors are great. thanks for your well wishes!!


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## RowdyAz (Jul 10, 2015)

sinthetik_mistik said:


> yeah he gets pissed off *all the time* i'm starting to get tired of it in my opinion he needs an attitude adjustment, granted he trained military in hand to hand combat so he's probably mister Rogers to us compared to how he was with them... but still, yeah he gets pissed and oftentimes i can't understand what he's saying from his thick Korean accent and he's like "Why you no listen to me?" and i'm like cause i can't understand you! (I don't actually say that) the other night he was slapping people, not on the face but on the legs, because their stance was off, so he was slapping their legs while telling them off. i just don't agree with the philosophy of "get mad every time a student makes a mistake" but i'm gonna put up with him for now... he does have massive credentials, like on the wall of the dojang there are like 80 awards he won and much else besides. but yeah the other instructors are great. thanks for your well wishes!!


I would be lookin elsewhere my friend.  Seems like your instructor lacks self control and people skills which nullifies his awards on the wall. If he hasn't got any tact in dealing with people and he wants you to buy all your equipment from him only and force gradings upon students, then he clearly is running a club that I would run from.


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## sinthetik_mistik (Jul 10, 2015)

RowdyAz said:


> I would be lookin elsewhere my friend.  Seems like your instructor lacks self control and people skills which nullifies his awards on the wall. If he hasn't got any tact in dealing with people and he wants you to buy all your equipment from him only and force gradings upon students, then he clearly is running a club that I would run from.



you bring up some good points.  i don't know what to do. i'm trying to find a dojang around here that is legit but they all have the same problems... perhaps minus the temperamental Grandmaster... but they all are the same old story, the things you mentioned are present in all of them. maybe i should switch to a different martial art... i like TKD a lot and am starting to make some progress in it. i really don't know what to do. i'll have to put some thought into it. thanks for the advice


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## sinthetik_mistik (Jul 10, 2015)

RowdyAz said:


> I would be lookin elsewhere my friend. Seems like your instructor lacks self control and people skills which nullifies his awards on the wall. If he hasn't got any tact in dealing with people and he wants you to buy all your equipment from him only and force gradings upon students, then he clearly is running a club that I would run from.



I wanted to thank you for giving me the push I needed to drop out of my TKD class. In fact, I'm giving up on TKD altogether due to the fact that every school in my area looks like the same old story.  I have found some MMA spots that look very promising, one school actually teaches both MMA and Krav Maga, which, in my opinion, are two of the fiercest martial arts out there. I've noticed that you give a lot of likes, which is really cool. cheers!


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## RowdyAz (Jul 10, 2015)

sinthetik_mistik said:


> I wanted to thank you for giving me the push I needed to drop out of my TKD class. In fact, I'm giving up on TKD altogether due to the fact that every school in my area looks like the same old story.  I have found some MMA spots that look very promising, one school actually teaches both MMA and Krav Maga, which, in my opinion, are two of the fiercest martial arts out there. I've noticed that you give a lot of likes, which is really cool. cheers!


No worries mate, stay focused on just doing the best you can and what ever it is you choose to pursue.  But don't go using krav maga in mma or you will get disqualified. Jokes. All the best and good luck.


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## Earl Weiss (Jul 11, 2015)

Earl Weiss said: ↑
Check your local park districts, community centers, JCC / YMCA. If they have clubs, there is no 24/7/365 overhead so they don't have to be as concerned with paying the bills.



sinthetik_mistik said:


> cool thanks... couldn't find any... i've actually decided that i judged my dojang too harshly  and i'm gonna stick with it



I would suggest you try again. You would need to visit them to look at theri catalog or call and ask if their offerings are available on line.

Around here almost every one of the above has at least one offering. Usualy more.


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## sinthetik_mistik (Jul 11, 2015)

Earl Weiss said:


> Earl Weiss said: ↑
> Check your local park districts, community centers, JCC / YMCA. If they have clubs, there is no 24/7/365 overhead so they don't have to be as concerned with paying the bills.
> 
> 
> ...



thanks but i'm done looking for TKD schools. After not that much research i found two MMA schools in my area both of which have rave reviews


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## Tez3 (Jul 12, 2015)

sinthetik_mistik said:


> thanks but i'm done looking for TKD schools. After not that much research i found two MMA schools in my area both of which have rave reviews




It depends what you want from a martial art. The rave reviews may have come from people looking for something completely different from you.
It may seem like semantics but no MMA gym worth it's salt would call itself a 'school' so if it does it may well be the same as the place you have left. it's just one of those little warning lights.

As for MMA being 'one of the fiercest martial arts out there' you are incorrect, MMA is what it says it is, a mixture of traditional martial arts ( including TKD) used for _competitive _fighting. If it's a good MMA gym they will have classes in the separate styles they have instructors for ( usually a ground style, a striking style plus a good all round coach and a lot of fitness and conditioning) the Krav Maga will be taught separately so if you aren't careful you could end up paying a lot. The Krav Maga will depend on who is taking it and what 'style' it is, it is also notorious for being expensive whoever takes it though.

I'd think carefully about it before you change style, human nature being what it is there's always people out to make money and not give a good product in return you could end up going from frying pan into fire.


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## Earl Weiss (Jul 12, 2015)

sinthetik_mistik said:


> thanks but i'm done looking for TKD schools. After not that much research i found two MMA schools in my area both of which have rave reviews



Exercise extreme caution when using reviews as a yardstick.

1. Reviews can be manipulated.
2. Reviewers  may have little experience to compare it to anything else. (It's not like eating in 20 resturants in a year)
3. What the reviewer was looking for and what you are looking for can be vastly different.

Bottom line - Watch the classes  / sessions before deciding.


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## Gnarlie (Jul 12, 2015)

I'd go a step further and say train there for a month before committing. A decent dojang will let you do this free, and classes can vary so much week to week that it is worth the time to get a reasonable picture of what training is like. It took about a year to get into the way of my current place after moving. It was very different.


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## TrueJim (Jul 12, 2015)

For people who like to compete, one nice thing about karate and taekwondo is that it's pretty easy to find a lot of local tournaments. Yes, they're just local tournaments, often held at high schools or similar venues, but still...it's usually only a short drive to the tournament, you don't need a hotel, and you can easily do it several times per year.


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## IcemanSK (Jul 12, 2015)

Gnarlie said:


> I'd go a step further and say train there for a month before committing. A decent dojang will let you do this free, and classes can vary so much week to week that it is worth the time to get a reasonable picture of what training is like. It took about a year to get into the way of my current place after moving. It was very different.



Trying out class for a month for free is a rare thing in commercial schools in the U.S. A park district or rec center is easier because class is often much cheaper than a commercial school, so the "buy in" is less.


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## Gnarlie (Jul 12, 2015)

IcemanSK said:


> Trying out class for a month for free is a rare thing in commercial schools in the U.S. A park district or rec center is easier because class is often much cheaper than a commercial school, so the "buy in" is less.



Not letting people try before they buy is a sign of a) poor long term business sense and b) lack of confidence in the product / something to hide, especially when that student has previous experience. I would keep looking, especially starting as a dan grade. I want to know what I am getting for my money. Surprising what heading for the door can get you.

That is why it's a good idea to speak with the owner / grandmaster face to face.


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## Steve (Jul 12, 2015)

Tez3 said:


> It may seem like semantics but no MMA gym worth it's salt would call itself a 'school' so if it does it may well be the same as the place you have left. it's just one of those little warning lights.


While I agree with everything else tez shared, this is a little over stated.  It may be true on the small island where she lives, but we speak a different brand of English in America, and MMA gyms are often referred to as martial arts schools over here.   

Give the rest some serious thought, but I wouldn't spend any time worrying about whether it's referred to as a school, a gym or anything else, particularly on a review site.


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## sinthetik_mistik (Jul 12, 2015)

Tez3 said:


> It may seem like semantics but no MMA gym worth it's salt would call itself a 'school'



actually it doesn't call itself a school i just said that


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## sinthetik_mistik (Jul 12, 2015)

Earl Weiss said:


> Exercise extreme caution when using reviews as a yardstick.
> 
> 1. Reviews can be manipulated.
> 2. Reviewers  may have little experience to compare it to anything else. (It's not like eating in 20 resturants in a year)
> ...




i just used the reviews as an example... i am not only interested in  this school because of the reviews it got, i studied their website and everything looks great, highly qualified instructors, competitive pricing, the instructors have loads of credentials, and it has trained a lot of people to compete in UFC, it has a full gym, and teaches Boxing, Kickboxing, Muay Thai, Brazilian Jiujitsu,   and Kali weapons fighting.


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## sinthetik_mistik (Jul 12, 2015)

Gnarlie said:


> I'd go a step further and say train there for a month before committing. A decent dojang will let you do this free, and classes can vary so much week to week that it is worth the time to get a reasonable picture of what training is like. It took about a year to get into the way of my current place after moving. It was very different.



the school i found has a free week try out, as well as a month to month membership plan


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## sinthetik_mistik (Jul 12, 2015)

Tez3 said:


> As for MMA being 'one of the fiercest martial arts out there' you are incorrect, MMA is what it says it is, a mixture of traditional martial arts ( including TKD) used for _competitive _fighting. If it's a good MMA gym they will have classes in the separate styles they have instructors for ( usually a ground style, a striking style plus a good all round coach and a lot of fitness and conditioning) the Krav Maga will be taught separately so if you aren't careful you could end up paying a lot. The Krav Maga will depend on who is taking it and what 'style' it is, it is also notorious for being expensive whoever takes it though.



i actually decided against the school that teaches Krav Maga. this school has highly qualified instructors for several types of martial arts


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## sinthetik_mistik (Jul 12, 2015)

sinthetik_mistik said:


> actually it doesn't call itself a school i just said that



what i meant is i just stated that it is a school, it didn't call itself a school


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## Gwai Lo Dan (Jul 12, 2015)

sinthetik_mistik said:


> Kickboxing maybe. i've just made progress in TKD and it'd be a shame to throw it all away now. i live in Alpharetta/Roswell/Johns Creek area which is about 45 min north of Atlanta, GA, on the off chance anyone on this site lives in this area or even if you don't live here know about a quality dojang with more than 3 adults that doesn't charge you 350$ for sparring gear please do let me know, thanks!


I was in Duluth Georgia last week for work and was surprised that although my hotel was in a Korean area, I didn't see too many TKD schools.  I checked out one, and couldn't understand the drill they were doing - a low push kick and kicking over the standing Century Versys bag.

As for your comment on fees, I am testing this week for black belt, and it's about US $320 for the test and kukkiwon certificate, and nothing else (no extra lessons, plaque, belt etc.).  Cheap in comparison to some schools, but expensive compared to the KKW cost and testing time.

After black belt, I am thinking about doing a little muay thai, even if it's only for a few months, in order to get better kicking / punching combinations.

In brief, I can't help you, but I can relate!


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## Tez3 (Jul 12, 2015)

sinthetik_mistik said:


> actually it doesn't call itself a school i just said that




That's cool. 

When you say the place has trained people to fight UFC do you mean actually in the UFC or they fight MMA? If they have fought in the UFC who are they?


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## IcemanSK (Jul 12, 2015)

Gnarlie said:


> Not letting people try before they buy is a sign of a) poor long term business sense and b) lack of confidence in the product / something to hide, especially when that student has previous experience. I would keep looking, especially starting as a dan grade. I want to know what I am getting for my money. Surprising what heading for the door can get you.
> 
> That is why it's a good idea to speak with the owner / grandmaster face to face.



I should have made myself more clear. A month of free try-out classes is rare. A week for free is not. A reduced fee trial month is more likely at a commercial school. ("First 3 months for $99 & a free dobok" kind of thing.)

 I agree completely that a conversation with the master/owner is a must. Most people who have never trained have no clue as to what to ask or what answer they are looking for, however. I just had an older teen student leave me after 6 years due to his relocation. I went over questions he sure ask prospective new masters. He asked me several times, "why is that important?"  

When we were in college & TKD 2nd Dans, my buddy & I went into a non-TKD school to watch class to see what this particular Art was about. We were told, "you are not allowed to watch class, you must participate in class." That sounded odd to us & we left. We found out later that school (exposed as fradulent & abusive by media & taken to court by former students) beat up new students to "expose their weaknesses."


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## Gnarlie (Jul 12, 2015)

IcemanSK said:


> We were told, "you are not allowed to watch class, you must participate in class." That sounded odd to us & we left. We found out later that school (exposed as fradulent & abusive by media & taken to court by former students) beat up new students to "expose their weaknesses."



I think you just done gone broke the first rule of fight club right there.

As I recall this thread began with a first dan moving, so he should have an idea what to ask, with a little bit of help from his current instructor. 

When I first arrived here in Germany, I trial trained at 4 different clubs simultaneously for a while, not paying, and they all knew what I was doing. I think it is fine as long as you are honest with everyone.

The club gets something out of having a new black belt as well as the black belt getting something from the club, so the club should be open for negotiation. If the black belt is worth their salt, that is...


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## sinthetik_mistik (Jul 12, 2015)

Tez3 said:


> That's cool.
> 
> When you say the place has trained people to fight UFC do you mean actually in the UFC or they fight MMA? If they have fought in the UFC who are they?



both UFC and MMA. Master Ricardo Murgel has an 8th degree black belt in BJJ.  he trained UFC fighter Nathan Marquardt. all of the instructors are seasoned MMA fighters


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## sinthetik_mistik (Jul 12, 2015)

Gwai Lo Dan said:


> I was in Duluth Georgia last week for work and was surprised that although my hotel was in a Korean area, I didn't see too many TKD schools.  I checked out one, and couldn't understand the drill they were doing - a low push kick and kicking over the standing Century Versys bag.
> 
> As for your comment on fees, I am testing this week for black belt, and it's about US $320 for the test and kukkiwon certificate, and nothing else (no extra lessons, plaque, belt etc.).  Cheap in comparison to some schools, but expensive compared to the KKW cost and testing time.
> 
> ...



well i wish you luck with your testing for black belt. 320$ is a lot of money, but maybe that's normal for a black belt.  a little Muay Thai is a good idea... i haven't taken it yet but i will soon as it is one of the martial arts of the school i am looking at. TKD is a great martial art, it's just that the dojangs in my area are kiddie money machines, i think the problem may be that TKD is too popular idk.


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## Tony Dismukes (Jul 12, 2015)

Is this the gym you are looking at? Looks promising.


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## Gwai Lo Dan (Jul 12, 2015)

sinthetik_mistik said:


> well i wish you luck with your testing for black belt..


I'll say the same thing that I told a friend.  "No luck needed.  Just show up and pass.  No one fails."  Thanks nonetheless!


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## sinthetik_mistik (Jul 12, 2015)

Tony Dismukes said:


> Is this the gym you are looking at? Looks promising.



yes it is! it does look promising doesn't it?


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## sinthetik_mistik (Jul 12, 2015)

Gwai Lo Dan said:


> I'll say the same thing that I told a friend.  "No luck needed.  Just show up and pass.  No one fails."  Thanks nonetheless!



no problem! sometimes i get nervous during belt testing, so stay calm (assuming that is even an issue for you)


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## WaterGal (Jul 13, 2015)

Gnarlie said:


> Not letting people try before they buy is a sign of a) poor long term business sense and b) lack of confidence in the product / something to hide, especially when that student has previous experience. I would keep looking, especially starting as a dan grade. I want to know what I am getting for my money. Surprising what heading for the door can get you.
> 
> That is why it's a good idea to speak with the owner / grandmaster face to face.



I've _never _heard of a school letting people train for free for a month.  A week, maybe.  Or letting people sign up for one month, no commitment, for a reduced price.  But not many businesses will give away $100-ish worth of services for nothing to people who haven't committed to anything; that's a great way to get a bunch of freeloaders who want a month of free workouts and have no intention of ever signing up.


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## WaterGal (Jul 13, 2015)

sinthetik_mistik said:


> both UFC and MMA. Master Ricardo Murgel has an 8th degree black belt in BJJ.  he trained UFC fighter Nathan Marquardt. all of the instructors are seasoned MMA fighters



Wow, that seems pretty good. Seems worth giving it a try and seeing how you like it.


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## TrueJim (Jul 13, 2015)

Agreed...in my area the schools mostly seem to offer a small handful of trial classes for free (and in some schools wearing workout clothes is okay if you don't have a uniform during the free trial), and then some schools (like mine) will give you a deal on a one-month trial ($20, plus the cost of a uniform if you don't have one), but I don't know of any that will give an entire _month_ for free.


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## Gnarlie (Jul 13, 2015)

WaterGal said:


> I've _never _heard of a school letting people train for free for a month.  A week, maybe.  Or letting people sign up for one month, no commitment, for a reduced price.  But not many businesses will give away $100-ish worth of services for nothing to people who haven't committed to anything; that's a great way to get a bunch of freeloaders who want a month of free workouts and have no intention of ever signing up.



Or, they could take the 'losses' on the chin as they'll never see any money at all if the student decides to go elsewhere (which as a dan grade, I totally would).

Looking at that month of free services from a slightly different angle, that's a full month of opportunity to show that student how awesome your training is and why they want to stay. But that only works if your training is actually awesome . If it's done right, they will hammer your door down at the end of the month to sign up, and stay even without a long notice contract.


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## Gnarlie (Jul 13, 2015)

TrueJim said:


> Agreed...in my area the schools mostly seem to offer a small handful of trial classes for free (and in some schools wearing workout clothes is okay if you don't have a uniform during the free trial), and then some schools (like mine) will give you a deal on a one-month trial ($20, plus the cost of a uniform if you don't have one), but I don't know of any that will give an entire _month_ for free.



You guys need to drive a harder bargain ;P or move to Europe, this could be a cultural thing.


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## Tez3 (Jul 13, 2015)

Our local JKD place has the train for a month free thing.


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## Gnarlie (Jul 13, 2015)

Tez3 said:


> Our local JKD place has the train for a month free thing.



Most of the places I know both in the UK and DE either do a trial period or let people buy a 10 lesson card if the trial is shorter. I actually prefer the card model, because of a perceived value phenomenon. People don't necessarily value what they don't pay anything for.

For those with prior experience in the art in question, I think the free trial works though.


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## Tez3 (Jul 13, 2015)

Gnarlie said:


> Most of the places I know both in the UK and DE either do a trial period or let people buy a 10 lesson card if the trial is shorter. I actually prefer the card model, because of a perceived value phenomenon. People don't necessarily value what they don't pay anything for.
> 
> For those with prior experience in the art in question, I think the free trial works though.



They do very well, there's only them and us in the area so we recommend each other. My only beef with the instructor is that I've known him since he was five and it makes me feel old when I see him , seriously though he is a very good instructor and martial artist, it's not a business though, he has his own sign writing business. His wife's car has amazing pictures of Bruce Lee all over it.


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## Tez3 (Jul 13, 2015)

thought you'd like to see the car. the side is even better.


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## TrueJim (Jul 13, 2015)

Bruce Lee is awesome, but sadly I think of *A Fistful of Yen* every time I see a picture of him.


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## sinthetik_mistik (Jul 13, 2015)

Tez3 said:


> thought you'd like to see the car. the side is even better.



NICE!!!


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## Dirty Dog (Jul 13, 2015)

WaterGal said:


> I've _never _heard of a school letting people train for free for a month.  A week, maybe.  Or letting people sign up for one month, no commitment, for a reduced price.  But not many businesses will give away $100-ish worth of services for nothing to people who haven't committed to anything; that's a great way to get a bunch of freeloaders who want a month of free workouts and have no intention of ever signing up.



We offer one free lesson. But it's only $40 a month anyway, with no contracts. And scholarships available to reduce that cost.



TrueJim said:


> Agreed...in my area the schools mostly seem to offer a small handful of trial classes for free (and in some schools wearing workout clothes is okay if you don't have a uniform during the free trial), and then some schools (like mine) will give you a deal on a one-month trial ($20, plus the cost of a uniform if you don't have one), but I don't know of any that will give an entire _month_ for free.



We don't let students wear a dobak till they've learned Kicho Il Jang, which is generally a month or so, depending on the student. By the time they need a $20 dobak, they've had opportunity to decide if they want to stay in training. Minimal upfront costs.

For that matter, we've given away more than a few dobaks to students who simply couldn't afford one. 



Gnarlie said:


> Or, they could take the 'losses' on the chin as they'll never see any money at all if the student decides to go elsewhere (which as a dan grade, I totally would).



Why would a Dan grade student need a month to decide if the training is any good?


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## WaterGal (Jul 13, 2015)

Gnarlie said:


> Or, they could take the 'losses' on the chin as they'll never see any money at all if the student decides to go elsewhere (which as a dan grade, I totally would).
> 
> Looking at that month of free services from a slightly different angle, that's a full month of opportunity to show that student how awesome your training is and why they want to stay. But that only works if your training is actually awesome . If it's done right, they will hammer your door down at the end of the month to sign up, and stay even without a long notice contract.



In my experience, a lot of people will take a free trial who have _no_ intention of signing up for anything, just because it's free.  While someone that's seriously interested will be willing to pay something, since they value what they're getting and are planning on paying for it at some point.


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## Gnarlie (Jul 14, 2015)

Dirty Dog said:


> Why would a Dan grade student need a month to decide if the training is any good?



I would want to know how often each aspect of the curriculum is trained. A week can be misleading.


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## Gnarlie (Jul 14, 2015)

WaterGal said:


> In my experience, a lot of people will take a free trial who have _no_ intention of signing up for anything, just because it's free.  While someone that's seriously interested will be willing to pay something, since they value what they're getting and are planning on paying for it at some point.


If people don't want to sing up that's their prerogative. If they come in with no intention, you have a month with your awesome training to change their mind. If they don't sign up, it is no great loss. In my experience, most do.


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## Dirty Dog (Jul 14, 2015)

Gnarlie said:


> I would want to know how often each aspect of the curriculum is trained. A week can be misleading.



You could ask...


Sent from an old fashioned 300 baud acoustic modem by whistling into the handset. Not TapaTalk. Really.


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## Gnarlie (Jul 14, 2015)

Dirty Dog said:


> You could ask...
> 
> 
> Sent from an old fashioned 300 baud acoustic modem by whistling into the handset. Not TapaTalk. Really.


People aren't always truthful at the point where they are keen to get you onto a contract.


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## Dirty Dog (Jul 14, 2015)

Gnarlie said:


> People aren't always truthful at the point where they are keen to get you onto a contract.



"Hello, I'm looking for a new school. Can you tell me how much time your school spends on poomsae, sparring, self defense, and bag work?"

Lying would require them to know your personal preferences for the breakdown of time spent on each activity.
If they know, they must be telepathic, and I'd ask if they could teach me that skill. I think it would be really helpful, and not just in self defense situations...


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## Gnarlie (Jul 14, 2015)

Dirty Dog said:


> "Hello, I'm looking for a new school. Can you tell me how much time your school spends on poomsae, sparring, self defense, and bag work?"
> 
> Lying would require them to know your personal preferences for the breakdown of time spent on each activity.
> If they know, they must be telepathic, and I'd ask if they could teach me that skill. I think it would be really helpful, and not just in self defense situations...



Their perception of how much of each is done, and how much they actually do might be quite different - and quite often is in my experience. I prefer to try before I buy, and not buy the proverbial pig in a poke. Nothing wrong with that, and I have never had a problem negotiating that trial period, even when it is not normally offered, and even when I have been honest about trying other schools too.

If schools aren't open to negotiating that trial, I wouldn't really want to train there. I look for two way trust and integrity in the school - student relationship. If I train for a month and like the product, I am there every day. It is an investment.


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## WaterGal (Jul 14, 2015)

Eh, that's why we offer a trial period.  My experience is that almost everyone knows how they feel about the training after 2 weeks, and are usually willing to shell out a small amount of cash for it.

But then, I can also generally give a person a pretty accurate sense of how much we spend on what stuff during each class, in actual minutes.  Sparring classes are 5-10 minutes of warm-ups, 5 minutes on forms, 5 minutes to put on sparring gear, and then 30-40 minutes of sparring. Forms classes are 5-10 min warm-ups, 20-40 min on forms, and any remainder of class on bag/pad work.  Striking classes are 5-10 minutes warm-ups, 5-10 minutes on forms, and ~30 minutes on bag/pad work, board breaks, etc.


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## Gnarlie (Jul 14, 2015)

How long I need depends on how big the syllabus is, and how deep the material covered goes.

I want to have an idea of how long it is before the same material crops up twice, and how often the less-often-covered material comes up.

Also, I want to see how the trainers act and react in a wide variety of situations, and how feedback and correction is handled in those circumstances.

I also want to have a chance to fit into the social circle, and get a feeling for the people outside of the training session. That can take a while, but you can learn a lot about a place / instructor from the little things people say.

I find a month to be the right amount of time for me to make a reliable judgement about a place. Any less and I am not so sure. Just my personal view, but I have tried a lot of places before I found one that really works for me and where I really fit and feel fully engaged, and I couldn't have done that with a trial period that was too short for me personally.


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