# Ace wanted this link posted about the link of pro wrestling to mma



## JDenz (Jan 28, 2003)

http://bjj.org/editorials/19980215-prowrest/


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## RyuShiKan (Jan 28, 2003)

> _Originally posted by JDenz _
> *http://bjj.org/editorials/19980215-prowrest/ *




OK, thats weird but Ill bite.

1)Why didnt Ace post it himself?
2)Why post it at all?


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## ace (Jan 29, 2003)

Written By Sam Chan it gives a Great Discription
Of The History of SHOOT FIGHTING/ WRESTLING!

I was looking for this for another Section 
When a Flame Broke out & Burnt a few Egos.

it's a verry good artical i hope U all enjoy.
___________________________________________

Oh Yeah & honestly I did not know how to put it up
I've owend a Computer for a little under a year.
And well there is still alot i don't know.
But im learning.


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## RyuShiKan (Jan 29, 2003)

> _Originally posted by ace _
> *Written By Sam Chan it gives a Great Discription
> Of The History of SHOOT FIGHTING/ WRESTLING! . *



Yeah, it basically says there is a blurred line between shoot fighting and "worked" Pro Wrastlin.


*The blurred line between "shoot" organizations and mainstream "worked" (and quite ridiculous) wrestling was once again demonstrated in 1995 when the magazine BASEBALL SHA sponsored an interpromotional event at Tokyo Dome.*

So is this your supporting evidence for how realistic Shoot Fighting is??




> _Originally posted by ace _
> *I was looking for this for another Section
> When a Flame Broke out & Burnt a few Egos. . *



I hope you had a fire extinguisher handy to put your ego out.




> _Originally posted by ace _
> *Oh Yeah & honestly I did not know how to put it up
> I've owend a Computer for a little under a year.
> And well there is still alot i don't know.
> But im learning. *



You sure figured out how to put those stupid smiles up rather well..


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## ace (Jan 29, 2003)

Again U try an start the Flame.
U need the Fire Extinguisher:angry: 
Cool Off
Hot Head :angry:


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## RyuShiKan (Jan 29, 2003)

> _Originally posted by ace _
> *  Again U try an start the Flame.*



I didn't start this thread. You were the one that wanted it started and had someone else post a link.
I read the article and havent found much relevance to the other thread other than it was written by someone you mentioned. 
"Why" You wanted it started I am not sure.
I am still trying to figure out your motivation for what seems like re-starting a closed thread.
Based on that it would seem like you are trying to start a flame war.






> _Originally posted by ace _
> *U need the Fire Extinguisher:angry:
> Cool Off Hot Head :angry: *



That coming from the guy who drops "Internet challenges" almost daily.


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## RyuShiKan (Jan 29, 2003)

If your argument is based on your previous statement that this stuff is only second to Baseball in Japan I find it hard to believe after reading how much financial trouble these groups had/have from the following portion of the article you posted. 




> By combining with New Japan Pro-Wrestling, the UWFi scucessfully rebounded after nearly going out of business early in 1995. Nobuhiko Takada's "winning" of the IWGP title (the match, like all New Japan bouts was a mainstream pro-wrestling "work") helped save UWFi financially. However, in the view of some fans it compromised the UWFi's "stiff style" reputation. Lou Thesz, upset by the blatant mixing of the two styles, asked Nobuhiko Takada to vacate his UWFi title. Takada complied and subsequently established a new organization called Kingdom.
> 
> The creation of Pancrase in 1993 deprived the PWFG of our of their major stars and in the following years the rganization started having fewer and fewer shows. In an effort to finance the organization, Yoshiaki Fujiwara once again appeared on mainstream "worked" professional wrestling shows for New Japan. The appearances further undermined the image of the promotion and did not provide the necessary funds. On November 19, 1995 the PWGF folded. All of its members, with the exception of Yoshiaki Fujiwara, left the Fujiwaragumi and formed "Battle arts."
> The current situation remains rather blurred. The Shooto organization has lost Satoru Sayama (who has returned to mainstream "worked" pro-wrestling for financial reasons) but remains 100% "shoot". Pancrase appears to have evolved into a "shoot" organization as well. However, they have lost their major star, Wayne (Ken) Shamrock, to the WWF. RINGS remains approximately 60% "worked" with a few reality based martial arts matches on its cards. Akira Maeda participates in both RINGS matches and the occasional mainstream "worked" match for New Japan. Nobuhiko Takada's Kingdom organization continues to promote the "stiff style" but yet Takada has faced Rickson Gracie in a reality based martial arts match and two Kingdom wrestlers were in a recent UFC tournament. There is another "shoot" organization called SAW (submission arts wrestling). Unfortunately, I have no information at this time about either SAW or "Battle arts".



If they were 2nd only to baseball in Japan they would be rolling in cash............doesn't seem like it though.


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## arnisador (Jan 29, 2003)

Please, keep the discussion polite and respectful.

-Arnisador
-MT Admin-


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## ace (Jan 29, 2003)

Im trying But Some of us out there are Not Making it easy.
Arnisador/ Kath U 2 know me
I am giving my word i will not start the Flame.

But The Sparks are Flying.


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## RyuShiKan (Jan 29, 2003)

> _Originally posted by ace _
> *Im trying But Some of us out there are Not Making it easy.
> Arnisador/ Kath U 2 know me
> I am giving my word i will not start the Flame.
> ...


 





Do you have any comments about the topic you indirectly started?


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## ace (Jan 30, 2003)

Rite Now & Wanting To Here from Opean
Not Closed Minded People
 So i Will N o t  Get into 
flame:cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:


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## RyuShiKan (Jan 30, 2003)

> _Originally posted by ace _
> *Rite Now & Wanting To Here from Opean
> Not Closed Minded People
> So i Will N o t  Get into
> flame:cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: *



Opean= ?


I'll ask again.............do you have any comments about the article you needed posted..........martial arts in general????


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## ace (Jan 30, 2003)

I did Not Get into a Fight & alot of Drinks Were all rready
Paid 4 so the Karte Kid Wont bother me
SHOOT if he was heer i'd buy him a drink

Then may be he would not hate me so much
:cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:


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## Bob Hubbard (Jan 30, 2003)

Guys, this is some friendly advice.

To the left, under the picture or name is a button called PROFILE.

Click on it.

Scroll down and look for the part that says "Add to Ignore List".

Click that, and you will not have to read -anything- someone has said again, unless you want to.



Some other advice for those wishing to debate online:
= Have your facts ready, and have lots of them. 1 source is not considered absolute, but 12 is alot closer to it.
= ReRead before you post to double-check for clearness.
= Spell check.
= Do not abuse the smilies or your signature.  We can and will remove them if need be.


Personal attacks, etc are going to be cracked down on harder in the future here...If you cant debate in a professional manner, but instead need to resort to insults, slights, shots and other such behavior, you will find your welcome here rapidly worn out.

We are working to limit the trolls on here.  The problems lie when otherwise good folks appear troll-like, or when troll hunters become too much like what they hunt.

This is not directed at any one person, but is a general statement.

:asian:


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## Bob Hubbard (Jan 30, 2003)

1 other point.....

Do not Drink and Compute....
1- its not good for the keyboard if ya spill it
2- it really makes it hard to follow what you post
3- it makes it hard for you to follow whats going on...

and most importantly...

#4y ou might end up writing the next Microsoft Operating System.

:asian:


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## ace (Jan 30, 2003)

s orry


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## GouRonin (Jan 30, 2003)

I don't know about anyone else Primo, but I love your posts.
:iws:


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## Bob Hubbard (Jan 30, 2003)

> _Originally posted by ace _
> *s orry *



Well, if your names on the next version of Windows, that means no beer for a year.

 


now.....back to the topic of this thread, what was the point your were trying to make?  

The conclusions I get from that article is that 'wrestling' in all its flavors is popular in Japan, has its roots in both Judo and the European arts, and that athletes go from 'worked' to 'shoot' orgs regularly.  Most of the organizations have $ problems, however thats also common in most US 'Feds', with ECW, WCW and many regionals closed due to $ problems.  I believe the NHB feds also had their share, with UFC almost going under at one point.

Oh, and as an aside, the last 'hooker' that worked the US feds was Dean Malenko.


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## GouRonin (Jan 30, 2003)

He said _"Hooker..."_
:shrug:


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## JDenz (Jan 30, 2003)

lol i am with go.


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## ace (Jan 30, 2003)

No Beer !!!!!!!!!!!!------------------------------------------------

Thats it im leaving!

:cheers:


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## Johnathan Napalm (Jan 30, 2003)

If you post unsubstantiated info, expect to be challenged and rebutted.  If you are rude, expect to be flamed.

I have not been here long. But I have yet to come across any deliberate flaming from posters such as Yilisifu, Yiliquan, Cheungfu, RyuShiKan, Mike Clark.   On the contrary, I find their posts to be well thought out, sensible and logical.  They don't shy from calling you out if your posts are questionable. That is positive.

The only way to maintain a quality forum is to have unsubtantiated posts rebutted and challenged.

If you go to take a peek at other forums, you will find a lot of dubious advice and info. No one is there knowledgeable to challenge those posts.  That is not healthy at all.

The success of a forum is totally dependent on the quality of the posters.


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## ace (Jan 30, 2003)

O.M.G.
:jediduel:


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## ace (Jan 30, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Johnathan Napalm _
> *If you post unsubstantiated info, expect to be challenged and rebutted.  If you are rude, expect to be flamed.
> 
> ____________________________________________________
> ...


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## RyuShiKan (Jan 30, 2003)

> _Originally posted by ace _
> *
> 
> 
> ...


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## Shinobi (Jan 31, 2003)

Wait, Dan Severn still Wrestles. And he's a hooker! So is Chris Benoit, I do believe. I know Benoit has a Catch background from Training at The Dungeon.


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## RyuShiKan (Jan 31, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Shinobi _
> *Wait, Dan Severn still Wrestles. And he's a hooker! So is Chris Benoit, I do believe. I know Benoit has a Catch background from Training at The Dungeon. *




The article seems to be from 1997~98 and was last updated 02/06/99 so the information is not exactly "fresh".


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## Shinobi (Jan 31, 2003)

Ahh, I was gonna say.


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## RyuShiKan (Jan 31, 2003)

I am still trying to figure out why it was posted though.


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## ace (Jan 31, 2003)

And Has done both Shoots & Works in
Japan.

There is a connection From This To MMA
it is Part of the History. 

Yes The Artical is older. 

Most of The Groups are doing Well.
Some are Gone Such as UWFI.

For Those Who Follow MMA i feel it is good 
pieace of Material to have.

Take it For What it is.
If U like it Great, if Not then move on.


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## Infight (Feb 27, 2003)

I Think at least this material can be used as some culture, information about some pro-wrestling origins, and from that came many fighters ( specially in Japan like Sakuraba ) to MMA, and i hope many others, cause that will increase the pro-wresling show with real manuevers, and increase the MMA show, with known names, showing that pro-wrestling is not a fake,LOL.


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## ace (Feb 27, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Infight _
> *I Think at least this material can be used as some culture, information about some pro-wrestling origins, and from that came many fighters ( specially in Japan like Sakuraba ) to MMA, and i hope many others, cause that will increase the pro-wresling show with real manuevers, and increase the MMA show, with known names, showing that pro-wrestling is not a fake,LOL. *


Absolutly Thank uuuuu


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## JDenz (Feb 27, 2003)

=-)


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