# These forms are amazing...



## Tlaloc (Apr 7, 2007)

I'm sure everyone here knows this by now, but forms are absolutely amazing. 

I just learned my 5th form, pyung ahn ee dan, and it's incredible. So far, every time I learn a new form, it sheds a new light on all the previous forms. Even after this one, I'm still finding a new appreciation that I've never actually understood about even geicho hyung il bo. 

I look foward to mastering this one so I can move onto pyung ahn sam dan!


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## Chizikunbo (Apr 7, 2007)

Congratulations on learning Pyong Ahn Eedan, I am very glad to see that you have some much energy and excitment in regards to your training, it will no doubt pay off in the long run.
You will find that as the years progress all of the forms take on many nuances and meanings, remember train dilligently, and do not regard any form as being to simplistic because ALL of our forms including the Kichos are of great value and importance in the grand scheme of things...keep an open mind called "kong shim" in your training, learn well and progress, enjoy the journey!!!
--Josh


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## JT_the_Ninja (Apr 9, 2007)

Indeed. Pyong ahn ee dan is one of those forms where you really start to see what you're doing, if you look closely enough.  C. S. Kim Karate students (and maybe all ITF students) have this form as a requirement for cho dan level recertification tests, and by requirement I mean "We gotta know it pretty durn near perfect." 

Keep on working; it's all prelims for a few years still at your level.


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## JWLuiza (Apr 12, 2007)

What's a recertification test as implemented in ITF?


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## exile (Apr 12, 2007)

Tlaloc said:


> I'm sure everyone here knows this by now, but forms are absolutely amazing.
> 
> I just learned my 5th form, pyung ahn ee dan, and it's incredible. So far, every time I learn a new form, it sheds a new light on all the previous forms. Even after this one, I'm still finding a new appreciation that I've never actually understood about even geicho hyung il bo.
> 
> I look foward to mastering this one so I can move onto pyung ahn sam dan!



Tlalocif you're really interested in the hardcore combat applications of the Pinans, look at the following material:

http://www.iainabernethy.com/articles/article_10.asp

This is a condensed overview of the origins and history of the Pinan/Heian kata which the TSD/TKD Pyung-Ahn hyungs are virtual replicas of.


http://www.iainabernethy.com/articles/Pinan1.asp

http://www.iainabernethy.com/articles/Pinan2.asp

http://www.iainabernethy.com/articles/Pinan3.asp

http://www.iainabernethy.com/articles/Pinan4.asp

http://www.iainabernethy.com/articles/Pinan5.asp

These five long chapter add up to a short book, one of the MA books ever written, on the combat applications of the Pinan/Heian series, by Iain Abernethy, the outstanding pioneer of modern realistic bunkai analysis. If you want some really in-depth insight into very effective combat tactics encoded in the P/H kata, and are willing to put some time and effort into training these apps, this book is what you've been looking for. It's freeIA has it on his website; you can download it (as I did) in about half an hour or less. The photos are very goodillustrate the points made, and they print out quite well, if you have a laser printer available. 

I'd be very interesting in hearing your thoughts on this stuff once you've had a chance to read it and experiment with it a bit.


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## JT_the_Ninja (Apr 12, 2007)

JWLuiza said:


> What's a recertification test as implemented in ITF?



Cho dans and above have to do twice yearly recertification tests, an incentive to keep practicing. The focus isn't on "passing," but on learning where you're slacking and where you need practice. It's also a way of keeping everyone from different schools on the same level; all the C.S. Kim Karate schools in my area test and recertify at the main school in Monroeville. Sometimes they take the opportunity right there at the recert to teach you stuff that's just being implemented (like new requirement ho sin sul). 

Recerts also get you closer to being able to test for the next degree. You have to recert a minimum of three times before being able to test for ee dan. Before I test for sam dan, I'll have recertified 5 times (so far, only 2). Recerts are only held every 6 months, so the ones with the patience and dedication are the ones who keep going.

The general format is similar to a black belt test/pretest:

- basic technique combinations, hand and feet (we have 7 hand combinations, 1 hand/foot combination, and 4 foot combinations, though they will occasionally switch things up, so you have to pay attention...technically they can tell you to do any techniques)
- hyung: the highest you know (jinte at my level), the highest keema hyung you know, one of the pyung ahn forms (the one with the name above your rank, i.e. pyung ahn sam dan for me, since I'm an ee dan), and (for some tests) the highest bong hyung you know. 
- 2 vs. 1 sparring; groups of 3, each person gets a number. At the start, it's 2 and 3 vs. 1; bell dings, 1 and 3 vs. 2; bell rings again, 1 and 2 vs. 3. No stopping.

- Endurance (in neh): 30-45 seconds continuous hop-up kicks, one-legged for cho dan and two-legged for ee dan. I think sam dans do 6-counts. Not sure about higher than that. 
- Knowledge: 3 judges each ask you a series of questions taken from the TSD gup manual, about terminology (anatomy, techniques), philosophy, and general TSD knowledge. One time I was asked Master Kim's dan number (915) and then my instructor's (30186). Luckily, I'd remembered them both. 

- il soo sik: pyung ahn one-steps, as many as you know (I know 1-8). Not sure what happens at higher levels.
- ho sin sul: hand grabs, weapon defense (knife at cho dan level, sword at ee dan level -- not sure after that)
- sometimes kyok pa (breaking). 

I put them in three groups here because the Monroeville school has 3 rooms, through which the testers are rotated. I usually start in the endurance room, as luck would have it. As to other ITF schools too far away to test at Monroeville, I can only assume it's similar.


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