# Structuring training and progression



## Mush (Feb 25, 2005)

I've hit a bit of a wall in terms of my development at the moment. My instructor has recently changed his own training programme and become quite focused on that after being let down by a student helping him with his training. I guess he's left me to my own devices thinking I am happy just doing what I am doing. I'm gonna have a sit down with him to review what I'm doing and go through what I want to do. He has asked me before where I want to go with it and seems he thinks I am happy coasting along. In his eyes I think unless your making the Art your be all and end all there's not much point. I tend to not to look too far ahead but am happy to carry on progressing with the Art. I can't remember the last time I've learnt something new from him to be honest. He gets on with his training and I've just been working on what I already know. 
Personally I want to learn more than I am. I don't really have any clear structure to follow that comes from him. I understand there is no point moving on from any technique to a new one if you have not developed it. 
Up to now I have covered in two years (which includes many private lessons over that time) Footwork drills, straight lead punch,cross,hook, uppercut, lowline roundhouse kicking (knee, thigh), oblique kick, side kick, Chi Sao, Lop Sao, Pak Sao (intermittently without consistent drilling) and main arm bar, leg lock techniques in grappling.
There is a lot of theory that has never really been explained to me regarding centreline, Four Corner parry, the use of energy drills and combining of techniques. 
He seems to put the onus on me as to what I want to learn and yet he is the one with the experience who should know what I a)need to work on b)what I can possibly move onto next. If anyone has got an idea or a breakdown of structured progress for students I'd be interested to see it to help give me some direction and questions for my instructor.


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## Adept (Feb 26, 2005)

Mush said:
			
		

> he is the one with the experience who should know what I a)need to work on


 Well, ask _yourself_ what you need to work on. After two years, you should have an idea of what you are doing right, and what you are doing wrong. Work out where you can improve, and then improve.


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## Mr_Scissors (Feb 26, 2005)

What is your weakest area? Trapping, Grappling, Kicking, Sensitivity etc. Whatever is weakest, work on that half the time. The other half I recommend that you focus on whatever your most inclined towards, personally.

And if you haven't worked any Silat sweeps ask about those, they're SO much fun!  %-}


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## Mush (Feb 26, 2005)

There are things that interest me such as the finger jab. Development of techniques involving elbows, knees, head butts, backfist, Wooden Dummy training, sparring tactics (Five Ways Of Attack) There has been nothing touched on using these tools in my time being taught in any lesson or otherwise. The Wing Chun elements/energy drills again have been touched on but there importance has never been established by my instructor and no guidance has been provided as to linking them with other aspects of the art or as to their relation to fighting. Chi Sao/Lop sao etc are not a part of my instructor's own training regime. He has very recently been doing some work on the dummy but his main training involves weights/cardio/bagwork/kicking techniques/ focus pad single, double, triple punching and his grappling.

Speed training or improving explosiveness in techniques seems to be left to you as an individual as does the fitness side (which is fair enough as he does not like to charge people for fitness lessons). However, the idea in my mind before joining the club as to how I would be trained and developed was similar to that of how many boxing gyms work. Your skills are honed and developed by your coach and bi-products of that would be increased speed and power.

I guess a lot of the problem is the lack of varied drills I have been shown in all aspects. This is where I feel the knowledge and experience of the instructor comes into play and it is their obligation to put you in the right direction.

I don't think I will ever want to perfect every technique there is within JKD. I have no interest in spinning back kicks, hook kicks or high line kicking. I do feel though I am missing out  immensely on the energy drills as I remember initially learning, and seeing an improvement in my reactions which soon evaporated when this was dropped from sessions. 

As an example how did your own development of the Wing Chun aspects (Chi Sao, Lop Sao, Pak Sao pan out in terms of what you did as a beginner/intermediate and what part of your training they play now? Obviously you can't give me the whole story but a brief history would give an insight.


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## James Kovacich (Mar 1, 2005)

Mush said:
			
		

> I've hit a bit of a wall in terms of my development at the moment. My instructor has recently changed his own training programme and become quite focused on that after being let down by a student helping him with his training. I guess he's left me to my own devices thinking I am happy just doing what I am doing. I'm gonna have a sit down with him to review what I'm doing and go through what I want to do. He has asked me before where I want to go with it and seems he thinks I am happy coasting along. In his eyes I think unless your making the Art your be all and end all there's not much point. I tend to not to look too far ahead but am happy to carry on progressing with the Art. I can't remember the last time I've learnt something new from him to be honest. He gets on with his training and I've just been working on what I already know.
> Personally I want to learn more than I am. I don't really have any clear structure to follow that comes from him. I understand there is no point moving on from any technique to a new one if you have not developed it.
> Up to now I have covered in two years (which includes many private lessons over that time) Footwork drills, straight lead punch,cross,hook, uppercut, lowline roundhouse kicking (knee, thigh), oblique kick, side kick, Chi Sao, Lop Sao, Pak Sao (intermittently without consistent drilling) and main arm bar, leg lock techniques in grappling.
> There is a lot of theory that has never really been explained to me regarding centreline, Four Corner parry, the use of energy drills and combining of techniques.
> He seems to put the onus on me as to what I want to learn and yet he is the one with the experience who should know what I a)need to work on b)what I can possibly move onto next. If anyone has got an idea or a breakdown of structured progress for students I'd be interested to see it to help give me some direction and questions for my instructor.


Instructors teach in "their own ways." They pick favorite students and choose "what and how" much a student will get. It might not seem right but who better to make those descisions than your instructor. I the students could make those descisions then they would not need the instructor.

In JKD, the program can change. We all our "expected" to evolve. Thats the way I teach. I teach in a fashion that "I know" my students will evolve. No it's not the the same as the guy down the street but in JKD we are all differant and thats what makes us "who we are."

I didn't catch where you are located?


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## hammer (Mar 1, 2005)

Mush. I an not a student of jkd, but would like to contribute to this topic, I am a beliver that you need to know where you have been to know where your going.
Here is a few questions that you might like to ask your self,

Do you have a copy of a syllabus? if not why ?

Dose your instructor teach of the cuff?

Dose the instuctor have the disired character / quailities to relay the information?

One reason why graddings are important is that they allow the student to set and reach achiveable goals both in short and long terms,

Have you check the net for jkd syallabus or alternative schools? 
Compare?

just a few thought cheers


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## Mush (Mar 2, 2005)

akja said:
			
		

> Instructors teach in "their own ways." They pick favorite students and choose "what and how" much a student will get. It might not seem right but who better to make those descisions than your instructor. I the students could make those descisions then they would not need the instructor.
> 
> In JKD, the program can change. We all our "expected" to evolve. Thats the way I teach. I teach in a fashion that "I know" my students will evolve. No it's not the the same as the guy down the street but in JKD we are all differant and thats what makes us "who we are."
> 
> I didn't catch where you are located?


I'm from Manchester, England by the way. I think your right there in terms of what an instructor decides to disclose to students. I have even overheard mine telling someone this sort of thing. He said "I can make people think they're making progress but if they are getting good at something, he'll move them onto another technique or area to stop them focusing on getting better. Keeping them at the level he wants I suppose. Sometimes I think maybe I may have been a victim to this. For example regarding Chi sao. I really enjoyed this and was making great progress while concentrating on this and my punching while I was recovering from a hamstring injury. It disappeared from our training sessions though once I was back at the gym. He has a very loose style of teaching and does not use any syllabus to see what you may possibly work on next or what you have mastered. Also I think he penalises you if you ever have time off with injury. I have torn my hamstring and an abdominal muscle since I have been training and both injuries have hampered my progress at times and what I could work on. I think my instructor due to past experience tends to think the worst of you. That the injury is not as bad as you make out or that your not committed to your training. He is definitely different with you once you come back from such injuries in terms of the attention he gives to your techniques. It's like you've betrayed him and that trust has got to be built up again. I think his whole style of teaching has come about because of the high turnover of students. I'm the only student willing/able to train everyday.
I recently listed Lamar Davis' Jun Fan/Jeet Kune Do syllabus from his site as a guide for me to gauge what I have worked on or would like to.


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## PragmaticMartialArtist (Mar 2, 2005)

You should apply what you learned with an uncooperative partner.   The intensity should not be 100%.  Part of the learning process is for your partner to give you feedback as to what worked and what did not.  You can practice swimming on dry land but the real test of your ability to swim occurs in the water.

Sounds like you have a good foundation.


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