# IKKA Red belt



## MattJ (Apr 1, 2015)

Hi guys, apologies if this has been covered already, but I couldn't find anything via search. Can anyone tell me anything about the red belt level that existed in the IKKA in the early 1990's? I actually was one at that time, but my old senile brain no longer remembers exactly how it came about. I believe it replaced the advanced green belt of that era as well. But I don't remember how many techniques per level existed then (24? 16?). Anyone whe remembers, or can point me to a thread or link that has some info would be greatly appreciated.


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## Blindside (Apr 1, 2015)

I have never heard of a red belt under any AK curriculum.


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## Touch Of Death (Apr 1, 2015)

MattJ said:


> Hi guys, apologies if this has been covered already, but I couldn't find anything via search. Can anyone tell me anything about the red belt level that existed in the IKKA in the early 1990's? I actually was one at that time, but my old senile brain no longer remembers exactly how it came about. I believe it replaced the advanced green belt of that era as well. But I don't remember how many techniques per level existed then (24? 16?). Anyone whe remembers, or can point me to a thread or link that has some info would be greatly appreciated.


It sounds like, some school near you, added a level to help the student feel like the are progressing, like Dragon belt before yellow, which happens all the time now.


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## Blindside (Apr 1, 2015)

Touch Of Death said:


> It sounds like, some school near you, added a level to help the student feel like the are progressing, like Dragon belt before yellow, which happens all the time now.



Because thats just exactly what kenpo needs, more belts and stripes.  Argh.


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## Touch Of Death (Apr 1, 2015)

Blindside said:


> Because thats just exactly what kenpo needs, more belts and stripes.  Argh.


Tenth degree comes before a kid knows it these days. It's like a sweet sixteen thing. I say promote those little dragons to any level they want, as long as they aren't actual belt levels.


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## Tez3 (Apr 2, 2015)

Touch Of Death said:


> Tenth degree comes before a kid knows it these days. It's like a sweet sixteen thing. I say promote those little dragons to any level they want, as long as they aren't actual belt levels.



Small children need belts...parents always buy clothes too big (you will grow into them) so they need something to hold up those Gi bottoms and stop the tops flapping around.


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## chrstnkenpoist (Apr 3, 2015)

MattJ said:


> Hi guys, apologies if this has been covered already, but I couldn't find anything via search. Can anyone tell me anything about the red belt level that existed in the IKKA in the early 1990's? I actually was one at that time, but my old senile brain no longer remembers exactly how it came about. I believe it replaced the advanced green belt of that era as well. But I don't remember how many techniques per level existed then (24? 16?). Anyone whe remembers, or can point me to a thread or link that has some info would be greatly appreciated.


My Instructor somewhat briefly  employed a red belt for the studio's "student instructors" under brown belt level. It was not a rank designation, but a designation of position on the training floor. I don't know of any Parker system studio in my region(Northeast Ohio)that uses a red belt in the ranking requirements. I have only heard of Korean based systems, ie; TKD,TSD, etc, that employ a red belt as a official ranking, somewhere around their brown belt levels.


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## MattJ (Apr 5, 2015)

Fair enough, I don't think it existed for long. I'm pretty certain it did replace the advanced green belt, though. Does anyone remember what happened to that rank?


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## MattJ (Apr 5, 2015)

Here's a picture of the belt and the certificate.


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## Blindside (Apr 6, 2015)

I guess the only think that jumps out to me on that certificate is that SGM Parker died about 10 months before it was issued and that your cert doesn't have a certificate number, both seem a little weird.


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## Hyoho (Apr 6, 2015)

Red dye runs when it gets wet. That's if you actually sweat enough. Its also the reason we don't mix indigo dies items with white.


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## Kembudo-Kai Kempoka (Apr 6, 2015)

Some of David Germans lineages inserted a red belt between green and brown, as a "side-step" away from the kenpo-ish cirriculum, to focus on grappling and bagwork/focus pad work/makiwara. The cert captioned above is signed by Jim Fredericks; he might be the best guy to contact, in order to ask what HE means by it.


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## Touch Of Death (Apr 6, 2015)

MattJ said:


> Fair enough, I don't think it existed for long. I'm pretty certain it did replace the advanced green belt, though. Does anyone remember what happened to that rank?


I remember being one. Did I miss something?


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## MattJ (Apr 6, 2015)

I was an advanced green belt as well, briefly. It was transitioned into the red belt, per the IKKA, so I remember, although that may not have been what really happened. Mr Frederick's school stopped using the red belt some time ago, and went to the 24 technique system out of the Infinite Insights.


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## Doc (Apr 16, 2015)

MattJ said:


> Here's a picture of the belt and the certificate.


Mr. Parker never used a red belt in any of his curriculum to my knowledge ever, and especially that late in his teaching. The diploma is an underbelt diploma with Mr. Parker's named "stamped" on the left side not signed. These diplomas were issued to some instructors to administer underbelt promotions, with the instructor and his witness on the right side.

But, contrary to what many believe, Mr. Parker never had a strict requirement to any aspect of his curriculum. Everything in the manuals and books were "suggestions" for teachers and school heads. Head instructors could install any curriculum and choose to use or not use any part of or all of the so-called requirements at their discretion. So it would not surprise me at all that your teacher might put in such a belt for his own purposes. But make no mistake, it was not a system wide application in general.


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## jks9199 (Apr 16, 2015)

Just curious...  There are "suggestions" and "suggestions."  If a general "suggests" that a PFC should do something -- it's gonna happen, y'know?    Any chance that, even if it wasn't intended, that his suggestions were taken as strict requirements?


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## Doc (Apr 16, 2015)

Are you kidding? In my tenure with the Old Man, I don't think I ever saw anyone that followed the "suggested" curriculum completely. As he added material or changed material, most just kept doing what they learned before, the way they wanted to do it. Many schools still teach the "original" yellow techniques, even though he changed them. Many schools don't even use the yellow techniques or the belt. Almost no one taught the "two" sets, or the Freestyle Formulas, etc. And for the record, the last curriculum was a 16 belt chart, not 24 as depicted in Infinite Insights. But remember the first volume came out in 1981, almost ten years before he passed.


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## jks9199 (Apr 17, 2015)

Serious question, absolutely.  I never had the privilege of even meeting Ed Parker, and I don't train in Kempo.  But it's something I've seen happen in martial arts and in other arenas.  Some people's _suggestions_ carry the force of law... and there are those whose outright orders are more observed in breach than in compliance.


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## KenpoDave (May 1, 2015)

chrstnkenpoist said:


> My Instructor somewhat briefly  employed a red belt for the studio's "student instructors" under brown belt level. It was not a rank designation, but a designation of position on the training floor. I don't know of any Parker system studio in my region(Northeast Ohio)that uses a red belt in the ranking requirements. I have only heard of Korean based systems, ie; TKD,TSD, etc, that employ a red belt as a official ranking, somewhere around their brown belt levels.



We did the same.


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## SteyrAUG (Aug 4, 2015)

Blindside said:


> Because thats just exactly what kenpo needs, more belts and stripes.  Argh.





RAINBOW BELT...you know...cause we don't hate.


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## tai-strick (Oct 13, 2015)

Kembudo-Kai Kempoka said:


> Some of David Germans lineages inserted a red belt between green and brown, as a "side-step" away from the kenpo-ish cirriculum, to focus on grappling and bagwork/focus pad work/makiwara. The cert captioned above is signed by Jim Fredericks; he might be the best guy to contact, in order to ask what HE means by it.





Kembudo-Kai Kempoka said:


> Some of David Germans lineages inserted a red belt between green and brown, as a "side-step" away from the kenpo-ish cirriculum, to focus on grappling and bagwork/focus pad work/makiwara. The cert captioned above is signed by Jim Fredericks; he might be the best guy to contact, in order to ask what HE means by it.


I hold the rank,7th degree red belt in the art of Chinese tai-kenpo karate system, an offshoot of sr.g.m. David German system of tai-kenpo karate system. My name is sifu Bernard(Scorpio) Strickland from b,ham Alabama.


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## Doc (Oct 13, 2015)

Congratulations ?


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