# Video demo of Steven Seagal Tenshin style Aikido



## Budogirl

Please check out this video of Tenshin style Aikido by Elliot Freeman, student of Steven Seagal:

http://youtu.be/v0Tm-dn99sg


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## Aiki Lee

Hi, I see this is ur first post so let me welcome you to martialtalk!

The techniques performed in this video seem quite good, and I'm impressed by the uke as well. Though people may have their opinions about Segal's movies or personal life, i firmly believe he was quite talented at aikido and marksmanship from what I've seen. Thanks for the video upload, but what made u post it? Are you a student of this person?


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## Cyriacus

A bit to many Spin-Happy Throws for my Taste.
And not enough Resistance from the Partner.

Other than that, it all looks like Pretty Decent Aikido to me


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## Jenna

Cyriacus said:


> A bit to many Spin-Happy Throws for my Taste.
> And not enough Resistance from the Partner.


I do not feel that these are valid criticisms at all when applied here.  This is a demonstration and not reality.  There is a significant difference.  Whilst it is not for uke to be compliant, that is not his job.  It is for him to safeguard his own defence, which is amooth ukemi.  Resisting is purely for the benefit of the tori.  People seem to be ignorant of training in Aikido and other arts insofar as both uke and tori / nage learn through throws, the one through perfecting their ukemi and the other through refining correct application of technique.  Therefore, being "Spin-Happy" as you see it in this instance is simply a demonstration of correct ukemi.  Ukemi or falling technique is an essential part of Aikido and most other throwing arts.  It should be efficient.  It should not be unnecessarily flamboyant.  I do not believe this demonstration was that.  It is injury avoidance purely and simply.  

Besides, full speed, full contact and full resistance is not a way that many martial arts are trained on mats.  Evasion and avoidance of injury is always practiced more than full force resistance.  In Aikido, our ukemi is the means to that end.  When it is practiced properly perhaps it appears to non-aikidoka as if practitioners are flying around like participants in a Chinese opera.  While this can of course be the case and there are apathetic practitioners in all arts, I do not see any of that in this demonstration.

Are there specific techniques here that you would draw attention to where you see this happening?


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## seasoned

Welcome to MT, Budogirl. Thanks for the video, coming from a striking art myself, I have always had a fascination for the art of Aikido. Not to say of course, that there is no striking to be had in this art.


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## SuperFLY

Jenna said:


> Besides, full speed, full contact and full resistance is not a way that many martial arts are trained on mats.  Evasion and avoidance of injury is always practiced more than full force resistance.  In Aikido, our ukemi is the means to that end.  When it is practiced properly perhaps it appears to non-aikidoka as if practitioners are flying around like participants in a Chinese opera.  While this can of course be the case and there are apathetic practitioners in all arts, I do not see any of that in this demonstration.


this.

sometimes i feel it would be nice to have some full speed footage available to show the 'nay sayers' of attackers that have no aikido knowledge but unsurprisingly not many people want to volunteer to have their wrists/arms broken.


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## Cyriacus

Jenna said:


> I do not feel that these are valid criticisms at all when applied here.  This is a demonstration and not reality.  There is a significant difference.  Whilst it is not for uke to be compliant, that is not his job.  It is for him to safeguard his own defence, which is amooth ukemi.  Resisting is purely for the benefit of the tori.  People seem to be ignorant of training in Aikido and other arts insofar as both uke and tori / nage learn through throws, the one through perfecting their ukemi and the other through refining correct application of technique.  Therefore, being "Spin-Happy" as you see it in this instance is simply a demonstration of correct ukemi.  Ukemi or falling technique is an essential part of Aikido and most other throwing arts.  It should be efficient.  It should not be unnecessarily flamboyant.  I do not believe this demonstration was that.  It is injury avoidance purely and simply.
> 
> *Interesting Point. Having never Practitioned Aikido, i couldnt exactly be aware that the Opponent was doing this deliberately; Duly Noted.*
> 
> Besides, full speed, full contact and full resistance is not a way that many martial arts are trained on mats.  Evasion and avoidance of injury is always practiced more than full force resistance.  In Aikido, our ukemi is the means to that end.  When it is practiced properly perhaps it appears to non-aikidoka as if practitioners are flying around like participants in a Chinese opera.  While this can of course be the case and there are apathetic practitioners in all arts, I do not see any of that in this demonstration.
> 
> *I shall restate that 99% of this Video was Swell *
> 
> Are there specific techniques here that you would draw attention to where you see this happening?
> 
> *Yes, actually.
> These times me be a bit off, due to the way Seconds are counted on Youtube.*
> 1:05 - Whilst Logical in itself, a Direct Takedown may perhaps have been better (Ill explain this in a second - This may also clarify some other things)
> 1:14 - This one im pointing out especially to note that your initial explanation clears it up Nicely, and is in fact all well and good.
> 2:13 - Thats just being all Advanced for the sake of it, and will be covered in my explanation in a moment.


My Explanation is simply, that were these First and Third Technique are applied, there are other Faster Methods that could have been employed. Instead, they have chosen to perform these more Rotary Throws, despite Demonstrating more "Direct" Throws throughout the rest of the Video. This is just personal preference.

The Fact i havent gotten around to Aikido in my Research of MA yet is... I cant really say bad. Im just busy with a few other Books


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## Jenna

Cyriacus said:


> My Explanation is simply, that were these First and Third Technique are applied, there are other Faster Methods that could have been employed. Instead, they have chosen to perform these more Rotary Throws, despite Demonstrating more "Direct" Throws throughout the rest of the Video. This is just personal preference.
> 
> The Fact i havent gotten around to Aikido in my Research of MA yet is... I cant really say bad. Im just busy with a few other Books


Thank you for your reply.  And firstly please do not think I am trying to belittle your opinion in any way I promise I am not.  I understand entirely the points you are making about those three techniques AS YOU SEE THEM. And I think that is a key point. 

To see is not always to understand. 

And I would urge caution against taking what you see as the basis for critique particularly in an art such as Aikido or Hapkido which rely upon pain as a means of ensuring your compliance in a technique. 

These things must be felt to be appreciated. One dislocated shoulder or fractured wrist is usually more than enough for most aikido-ka to become more compliant in their ukemi.  These apparently excessive rolls and tumbles are not a weakness nor are they unnecessarily florid and but they are rather damage limitation.  

Yet I understand your point.  Again, to a casual observer - in fact pretty much ALL casual observers that have not experienced these techniques (even this site is full of it let alone the other um, "tougher" MA sites lol) - to casual observers, there is a lot of compliance.  This, as I mentioned is unfortunately true in a negative way among a number of apathetic aikidoka.  I have experienced this numerous times.  I do not see that here though.  I will say that when hit with one of these techniques IN EARNEST, one of two things happen depending upon the demeanour of the attacker. If he is loose / relaxed / in any way compliant, he will move albeit in a slightly untidier fashion to uke in above clips.  If he is resistant or tense, he will move albeit in a slightly untidier fashion to uke in above clips only he will sustain injury to joints.  What you are seeing from uke in those techniques is the way your body will fall when these techniques are applied.  It is incontrovertible physiology and mechanics.  One moves, or is injured.

On the other hand, whether these techniques themselves, as you say, might be more efficiently swapped out for other techniques, well I think I cannot speak for the demonstrator here or know what was on his mind except that usually demonstrations are meant to be interesting  

Youtube is sort of not really the way to learn all about martial arts that we are not familiar with and I would argue moreso for arts such as Aikido which are reliant upon application of pain 

I do however take your point


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## Jenna

SuperFLY said:


> this.
> 
> sometimes i feel it would be nice to have some full speed footage available to show the 'nay sayers' of attackers that have no aikido knowledge but unsurprisingly not many people want to volunteer to have their wrists/arms broken.


There are some good videos around and but you are right, there are few that show Aikido at full speed and full force.  Perhaps that says more about the wit of aikidoka that are not so often involved in brawling.

Here are some from my favourites stash that I believe show Aikido can be utilised in so many different ways and with so many different mindsets.  The tall blonde  in the first has excellent form.  The second and third are military-type applications.


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## Cyriacus

Jenna said:


> Thank you for your reply.  And firstly please do not think I am trying to belittle your opinion in any way I promise I am not.  I understand entirely the points you are making about those three techniques AS YOU SEE THEM. And I think that is a key point.
> 
> **nods**
> 
> To see is not always to understand.
> 
> And I would urge caution against taking what you see as the basis for critique particularly in an art such as Aikido or Hapkido which rely upon pain as a means of ensuring your compliance in a technique.
> 
> *Of course*
> 
> These things must be felt to be appreciated. One dislocated shoulder or fractured wrist is usually more than enough for most aikido-ka to become more compliant in their ukemi.  These apparently excessive rolls and tumbles are not a weakness nor are they unnecessarily florid and but they are rather damage limitation.
> 
> *Clarified afore, noted once more *
> 
> Yet I understand your point.  Again, to a casual observer - in fact pretty much ALL casual observers that have not experienced these techniques (even this site is full of it let alone the other um, "tougher" MA sites lol) - to casual observers, there is a lot of compliance.  This, as I mentioned is unfortunately true in a negative way among a number of apathetic aikidoka.  I have experienced this numerous times.  I do not see that here though.  I will say that when hit with one of these techniques IN EARNEST, one of two things happen depending upon the demeanour of the attacker. If he is loose / relaxed / in any way compliant, he will move albeit in a slightly untidier fashion to uke in above clips.  If he is resistant or tense, he will move albeit in a slightly untidier fashion to uke in above clips only he will sustain injury to joints.  What you are seeing from uke in those techniques is the way your body will fall when these techniques are applied.  It is incontrovertible body mechanics.  One moves, or is injured.
> 
> *Fair enough*
> 
> On the other hand, whether these techniques themselves, as you say, might be more efficiently swapped out for other techniques, well I think I cannot speak for the demonstrator here or know what was on his mind except that usually demonstrations are meant to be interesting
> 
> *Application is a personal thing.
> But im perhaps a bit used to everything ending in some kind of Savage All-Ending Blow. Im perhaps less used to more passive Arts
> Most of what ive learnt ends in a Knife Hand, or Choke Hold.*
> 
> Youtube is sort of not really the way to learn all about martial arts that we are not familiar with and I would argue moreso for arts such as Aikido which are reliant upon application of pain
> 
> *Youtube is a good place to Observe. But you need to be able to know what it is youre watching. Then theres the factor of Subjective interpritation. Or the factor of not knowing that this "Uke" is deliberately moving that way.*
> 
> I do however take your point



For reference, if i thought you were belittling my point, id have Contradicted that Application of Logic, rather than explaining my own - Avoids Arguements that way :drinkbeer


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## Jenna

And sorry to OP.  I do not mean to derail this thread.


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## SuperFLY

Jenna said:


> There are some good videos around and but you are right, there are few that show Aikido at full speed and full force.  Perhaps that says more about the wit of aikidoka that are not so often involved in brawling.
> 
> Here are some from my favourites stash that I believe show Aikido can be utilised in so many different ways and with so many different mindsets.  The tall blonde  in the first has excellent form.  The second and third are military-type applications.



very nice vids. that blonde does indeed have a superb technique. very smooth, very quick.


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## oftheherd1

Welcome to Martial Talk Budogirl.  I am guessing you must be an aikidoist.  Look forward to future input and sharing of experiences from you.  You might want to consider introducing yourself in the meet and greet area.  If you haven't discovered it yet, you might find the forum for lady practitioners of interest from time to time.

Again, welcome.


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## Budogirl

Hello, 

Yes, I am a student of Elliot Freeman who is doing the demonstration in this video.  It was just a quick demo I asked Sensei to do and I recorded after class one day.  I hope you enjoyed it!


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## Budogirl

Cyriacus said:


> My Explanation is simply, that were these First and Third Technique are applied, there are other Faster Methods that could have been employed. Instead, they have chosen to perform these more Rotary Throws, despite Demonstrating more "Direct" Throws throughout the rest of the Video. This is just personal preference.
> 
> The Fact i havent gotten around to Aikido in my Research of MA yet is... I cant really say bad. Im just busy with a few other Books





Hello Cyriacus:

I know what you mean about faster techniques and more direct methods... we do practice many techniques that way in our dojo.  This was just a demonstration and the extended techniques used were more to illustrate certain "possibilities."  In Aikido I believe we practice that every technique has the possibility to end quickly or it can go into another and another... and you can finish with a break or a pin.


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