# Promoting Organization



## Kenpobuff (Feb 15, 2007)

Just a general question about promotions to higher ranks by members of different organizations.

I read on another forum that a senior kenpoist was promoted by and kicked into the next rank by a group of well known masters.  Each of these masters all have their own associations or organizations that they head.  So my question is: Under what organization is a person's certificate issued under this circumstance?

I asked the promoted person directly but he got defensive and didn't want to answer the question.  So I am opening it up to any seniors that may have had the pleasure to be promoted by such a who's who of kenpo from other organizations.

Help in my understanding is appreciated.

Steve


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## MJS (Feb 15, 2007)

Kenpobuff said:


> Just a general question about promotions to higher ranks by members of different organizations.
> 
> I read on another forum that a senior kenpoist was promoted by and kicked into the next rank by a group of well known masters. Each of these masters all have their own associations or organizations that they head. So my question is: Under what organization is a person's certificate issued under this circumstance?
> 
> ...


 
Well, I'm not a Kenpo Senior, but I'll throw in my .02 anyway.   I can see how some feel that its justified to be promoted by a group of high rank, but IMO, if I'm a Kenpoist, which I am, and I was going to be promoted in a way such as what you mention, then I'd at least want it to be a group of fellow Kenpoists.  Sure, someone thats a 9th or 10th in TKD, Judo, Shotokan, etc., is certainly capable to promote, but what do they know about Kenpo?  I realize that once you reach a certain rank, its not so much a physical test, as it is what you've done or given back to the art.  But still, IMHO, it would mean much more to me, to have a group of Kenpo Seniors promoting me, rather than someone outside the art.

Mike


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## bushidomartialarts (Feb 15, 2007)

my advice:  let it go.

i don't know what the deal is with many kenpo seniors, but the politics are a damn rats' nest.  the less we let them into our head space the better off we are.


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## Kenpobuff (Feb 15, 2007)

From my understanding a large majority of those promoting this person were from the kenpo master list of which one was his instructor.


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## Ceicei (Feb 15, 2007)

Kenpobuff said:


> From my understanding a large majority of those promoting this person were from the kenpo master list of which one was his instructor.



If his instructor belongs on that master list, or at least is in that lineage, then I suppose it really doesn't matter as much whose organization.  It does pose an interesting question which organization the certificate would be.  I would assume it be the same as the one the instructor belongs???  That seems logical.

I've been in several tests that have instructors from other kenpo schools  on the testing panels (especially if a small school may have only one or two instructors).  Technically, these schools may be competitors, but when it comes to helping each other out, Kenpo as a whole are very (ummm, I'm trying to think of a word to use, racking my brain) cohesive?  

Perhaps that what happened with the situation you mentioned; the higher the rank is for the test, there may be a need for other kenpo seniors to be present at the promotion--there usually aren't enough within the same facility/studio to judge--and thus drawn from other organizations when necessary?

Just my thoughts...

- Ceicei


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## Kenpobuff (Feb 16, 2007)

Thanks Ceicei for your thoughts.  Makes sense.  

Now on another thread Mr. Brown of the UKF says there aren't any 7th degrees in that organization.  So I guess it was just for "recognition" purposes.  I would like to be recognized for my accomplishments and contributions to Kenpo by that group someday...won't happen, but nice thought anyway.  Thanks for clarifying the differences Mr. Brown.  

Too bad the promotee/recognized individual couldn't have just come out and said that.  He must have been too busy "recognizing" his instructor as the successor.


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## Touch Of Death (Feb 16, 2007)

Objectivly it would seem that the high ranking individuals would accept eachothers organizations and work to assimilate or destroy the others. 
Sean


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## Doc (Feb 17, 2007)

Kenpobuff said:


> Just a general question about promotions to higher ranks by members of different organizations.
> 
> I read on another forum that a senior kenpoist was promoted by and kicked into the next rank by a group of well known masters.  Each of these masters all have their own associations or organizations that they head.  So my question is: Under what organization is a person's certificate issued under this circumstance?
> 
> ...



Steve I can understand the confusion, but what happened is not at all unusual. These issues exist because at some point in any art, someone(s) had to promote others. Many were self-promoted and started their own art, becoming their own self-described doyen, so this is not new. All of the original masters were self-promoted. The modern era, including my own lineage, found people of diverse backgrounds banding together creating organizations to support, and yes, promote each other for a degree of credibility. Mr. Parker when first coming to the mainland followed by creating a yudanshakai to promote his people and others. He left that one when he changed directions philosophically, and formed another. He was promoted and recognized by people from diverse styles. 

The validity of these things is judged on an individual basis. There are many really bad, unknowledgeable, high-ranking people out there. However, the only thing that matters is what you think of them. If we stop worrying about who has what rank, and concentrate on our own studies to be as knowledgeable and skilled as possible, than those issues become very small in your world. It also necessitates that we, as a group stop, looking at rank as the only measure of someone's worth to us as mentors and teachers.

I've seen guys with no stripes on their belts who can't draw a crowd at a Kenpo gathering, who I knew had more knowledge than many of the guys with the Christmas Tree Belts lit up, and flashing, who were surrounded by those who were mesmerized by all the "bling." Stripes are the kenpo equivalent of the "bling, bling." Some deserve them, a lot more don't. "Bling" is when you're trying to sell something to the public.

Forget the "bling," and judge by what they have to offer you. There might be a surprise or two in store. Ed Parker had a drawer full of recognized 10th degree certificates from everyone. The "Bling bling" only means something when you got something to sell to those that don't know any better. Remember, both Bruce Lee and Ed Parker's status came from those that recognized what they had to offer, and the truth is those in the know, (a many who didn't), could care less what either of their ranks were. Their abilities and Mr. Parker's knowledge spoke for itself.

"Bling, Bling is about the business baby, not the art." - Ron Chapél


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## IWishToLearn (Feb 17, 2007)

Quote from Dr. Evil:

"What do I care? I'm in the fricken World Domination business...not the Bling Bling business!"


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## Kenpobuff (Feb 20, 2007)

Doc,
Thanks for the reply.  You make a good point and helps me put it into perspective.  I guess I will just go back to being a white belt in a black belt package or vice-a-versa depending on who's looking.  Today I feel like a grandmaster...tomorrow may be a different story.
Steve


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## Ronin Moose (Feb 21, 2007)

*


bushidomartialarts said:



			my advice: let it go.
		
Click to expand...

*


bushidomartialarts said:


> *i don't know what the deal is with many kenpo seniors, but the politics are a damn rats' nest. the less we let them into our head space the better off we are.*





*Truer words were never spoken.  Thank you for posting it.*

*-Garry*


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## kenpotroop (Feb 21, 2007)

Doc said:


> Steve I can understand the confusion, but what happened is not at all unusual. These issues exist because at some point in any art, someone(s) had to promote others. Many were self-promoted and started their own art, becoming their own self-described doyen, so this is not new. All of the original masters were self-promoted. The modern era, including my own lineage, found people of diverse backgrounds banding together creating organizations to support, and yes, promote each other for a degree of credibility. Mr. Parker when first coming to the mainland followed by creating a yudanshakai to promote his people and others. He left that one when he changed directions philosophically, and formed another. He was promoted and recognized by people from diverse styles.
> 
> The validity of these things is judged on an individual basis. There are many really bad, unknowledgeable, high-ranking people out there. However, the only thing that matters is what you think of them. If we stop worrying about who has what rank, and concentrate on our own studies to be as knowledgeable and skilled as possible, than those issues become very small in your world. It also necessitates that we, as a group stop, looking at rank as the only measure of someone's worth to us as mentors and teachers.
> 
> ...



Amen


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## IWishToLearn (Feb 21, 2007)

Unfortunately he's absolutely right.


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## Doc (Feb 22, 2007)

Kenpobuff said:


> Today I feel like a grandmaster...tomorrow may be a different story.



I truly know exactly what you mean.


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## Sigung86 (Feb 25, 2007)

Doc said:


> I truly know exactly what you mean.




As a famous lady news anchor of the 80s said, "... And so it goes"...


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## IWishToLearn (Feb 25, 2007)

Hi Dan, long time no see


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## Doc (Feb 25, 2007)

Kenpobuff said:


> Doc,
> Thanks for the reply.  You make a good point and helps me put it into perspective.  I guess I will just go back to being a white belt in a black belt package or vice-a-versa depending on who's looking.  Today I feel like a grandmaster...tomorrow may be a different story.
> Steve


Doesn't matter baby as long as you are learning. Nobody asks you your rank after you drop em.


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## Kenpobuff (Feb 27, 2007)

Doesn't matter baby as long as you are learning. Nobody asks you your rank after you drop em. 02-25-2007 01:10 PM

Except maybe the attorney for the prosecution! 

Doc,
Would I be better off not being ranked when I take the stand to defend my actions?  This question may be for another thread.

Steve


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## kenpotroop (Feb 27, 2007)

Kenpobuff said:


> Doesn't matter baby as long as you are learning. Nobody asks you your rank after you drop em. 02-25-2007 01:10 PM
> 
> Except maybe the attorney for the prosecution!
> 
> ...



Personally I would rather be tried by 12 then carried by 6


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## IWishToLearn (Mar 8, 2007)

Well, if you tore out his eyes and ruptured a testicle but he shot you twice - I wonder who the jury would find for.


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