# aikido cross trainers



## brothershaw (May 2, 2004)

how many of you are doing aikido and some other art? Aikido for the throws/ locks/ internalization/ footwork  and something else for striking?


----------



## Yari (May 3, 2004)

brothershaw said:
			
		

> how many of you are doing aikido and some other art? Aikido for the throws/ locks/ internalization/ footwork  and something else for striking?



I used to do Jujitsu and arnius besides Aikido. But I didn't do it to cross train, but because I loved to do the different things.

/Yari


----------



## Bushido151 (May 3, 2004)

If you choose the right style of Aikido you don't have to cross train!!! Check out Aikidobuff.com


----------



## MJS (May 3, 2004)

Bushido151 said:
			
		

> If you choose the right style of Aikido you don't have to cross train!!! Check out Aikidobuff.com



Yes and no.  I dont train in Aikido.  I train in Kenpo as my base art, as well as as few others.  I've had this same discussion with my other Kenpoists.  Are there grappling concepts in Kenpo? Yes.  However, if you really want to understand the ground, you need to train in a grappling art.  There is nothing wrong with crosstraining.  As I've said on the Kenpo threads....if you at the very least, take an idea or concept from another art, add it to your own, just think of how much better you'll become!

Just a few thoughts.

Mike


----------



## MisterMike (May 3, 2004)

I agree. Definitely go and see what else is out there. Take in as much as you can.

a) you will never see it all
b) it will only benefit you
c) eventually you will see how all styles are tied together
d) if any teacher claims they have it all and there is nothing else to see...


LEAVE


----------



## brothershaw (May 3, 2004)

I dont practice aikido but from time to time i think about training in an art that specializes in throws and or joint locks, although i am learning some through my normal practice. Aikido and/or judo are appealing because they there isnt much empahasis on striking, so I wouldnt spend time learning multiple ways to hit. From my experience every style uses the body differentntly when it comes to hitting, not to mention the hand positions. 
 People also use the body to throw differently but thats less of a concern, since I dont do much throwing, or joint locks


----------



## Yari (May 4, 2004)

MisterMike said:
			
		

> I agree. Definitely go and see what else is out there. Take in as much as you can.
> 
> a) you will never see it all
> b) it will only benefit you
> ...



Hi Mike

In one sense I agree, but looking at the four criteria I can't but feel that b) is a bit broad. But it could be me misunderstanding, since you did write "go and see" but no mention of practice. Because I don't believe that praticing anything will only benefit you. THere are styles that will hurt your body, and cripple you when you get old. But I could be reading to much in what your writing.

But a broader understanding does really put many things in perspectiv (sp?).

Regards

Yari


----------



## MJS (May 4, 2004)

Yari said:
			
		

> Hi Mike
> 
> In one sense I agree, but looking at the four criteria I can't but feel that b) is a bit broad. But it could be me misunderstanding, since you did write "go and see" but no mention of practice. Because I don't believe that praticing anything will only benefit you. THere are styles that will hurt your body, and cripple you when you get old. But I could be reading to much in what your writing.
> 
> ...



Maybe I can shed some light on this.  I think, and Mike, please correct me if I'm wrong, but what hes saying is this.  It will only benefit you in a positive way.  I dont think that anyone said to go out and start training in Muay Thai, which is a very demanding art.  However, by taking the concepts or ideas as to how they throw their kicks, and adding them to the way you throw yours, will in the long run, only make your kicking that much better.  The same can be said for boxing.  If I can take a tip from a boxer, and make my jab or hook that much more devastating, look how much more my skill level went up.  Keep in mind, that there are many old masters, especially in the FMA, that are old, but still move very well.  

Mike


----------



## MisterMike (May 4, 2004)

Yes, by "go see what's out there" you do not need to take a class, but you may simply pick up a book and read about what an art has to offer or just watch a class. Whether you decide to go down that road and cross-train is up to you and the results may vary depending on your skill level. Sometimes cross-training too early in your overall training may produce conflicts and slow your progress in any one style.

But I think all of the arts have something to offer and should at least be respected for that. A lot of times you see the articles and posts regarding "This Art" vs. "That Art" which kind of pits one style against another right from the get-go.

An example of how the arts can be classified is right here on MartialTalk. The forum descriptions tell you what an art may encompass. If two arts offer throws, it's good to look at them both and see how they differ but realize that they both are just as valid.


----------



## Shogun (May 4, 2004)

I practice Aikido primarily, but several other arts as well. I don't train in them for "cross-training" however, because I don't plan to use it in a ring. I also train in Jujutsu, Tushkahoma, and Ninjutsu.


----------



## MJS (May 4, 2004)

Shogun said:
			
		

> I practice Aikido primarily, but several other arts as well. I don't train in them for "cross-training" however, because I don't plan to use it in a ring. I also train in Jujutsu, Tushkahoma, and Ninjutsu.



You dont have to get into a ring in order to crosstrain!  I train in a few different arts.  I do so, so I can become a more well rounded martial artist.  Of course, if you did want to get into a MMA event, then crosstraining is really the only way you'd stand any chance.

Mike


----------



## Shogun (May 7, 2004)

The Phrase "Cross-training" is used primarily to refer to sport martial arts. I did'nt mean the only way you can cross-train is by competing. it also would'nt be entirly necessary to cross train to do MMA. the Gracie Family trained strictly in Japanese Jujutsu, and developed BJJ, and they do just fine in MMA tourneys


----------



## MJS (May 7, 2004)

Shogun said:
			
		

> The Phrase "Cross-training" is used primarily to refer to sport martial arts. I did'nt mean the only way you can cross-train is by competing. it also would'nt be entirly necessary to cross train to do MMA. the Gracie Family trained strictly in Japanese Jujutsu, and developed BJJ, and they do just fine in MMA tourneys




So if thats the case, how do you explain the loss of everyone in the first UFC to Royce Gracie?  They were all 1 style fighters.  Many of the Brazilian MMA fighters, such as Vitor Belfort has crosstrained extensively in boxing.  I think that should be very apparent in the UFC fights!  Why have they done this?  One reason is to be more well rounded.  If you wanted to beat someone wouldnt you think that you should have an understanding of their fight game?  While the Gracies might not be the best punchers, I have seen Royce throw some punches as well as fights with Rickson Gracie who also punched.

Mike


----------



## Shogun (May 7, 2004)

yes, this is true but also keep in mind the first UFC's didnt have outlined rules like they do now.


----------



## Shogun (May 7, 2004)

also, a good number of the first UFC fighters did'nt really have a ton of training in their particular art. some didnt have any MA training (take Tito for example, who was only a collegiate wrestler). Really it is more the fighter mentality. Royce will fight anybody, anytime, anywhere. and has no fear of getting hurt. I wonder how many other fighters have that kind of discipline? Gary Goodridge brought pure Kuk Sool Won into the ring and won. Chuck Liddell brought koei kan karate and did fairly well with it. In December of 98, Royce lost to Wallid Ismail by rear naked choke. Ismail is pure Jujutsu.

so in conclusion, It is not necessary to compete to cross train, nor is it necessay to cross train to compete.


----------



## MJS (May 7, 2004)

Shogun said:
			
		

> yes, this is true but also keep in mind the first UFC's didnt have outlined rules like they do now.



Umm..Yes they did!!  There were rules, but not as many as they have now.  

Mike


----------



## MJS (May 7, 2004)

Shogun said:
			
		

> also, a good number of the first UFC fighters did'nt really have a ton of training in their particular art. some didnt have any MA training (take Tito for example, who was only a collegiate wrestler).



I think you need to do your homework on UFC fighters.  Tito did not enter the picture until much later.  They didnt have a ton of training in their art?? Come on man.  You had guys like Ken Shamrock and Pat Smith.  Those guys didnt have a ton of training?? Yeah, ok!!  



> Really it is more the fighter mentality. Royce will fight anybody, anytime, anywhere. and has no fear of getting hurt. I wonder how many other fighters have that kind of discipline?



Gee, let me see.  Tank Abbott for one.  All of those guys that enter that ring have some serious balls!  



> Gary Goodridge brought pure Kuk Sool Won into the ring and won. Chuck Liddell brought koei kan karate and did fairly well with it.



Gary also got destroyed by a wrestler in one of those fights, due to his lack of ground exp.  Mark Shultz was the wrestler that he fought. Chuck has also crosstrained.



> In December of 98, Royce lost to Wallid Ismail by rear naked choke. Ismail is pure Jujutsu.



And your point?? When you have 2 people who are equally matched in skill, its the one who can out think the other, that will end up the winner.  Wallid and Royce also come from 2 different camps.  



> so in conclusion, It is not necessary to compete to cross train, nor is it necessay to cross train to compete.



It is necessary.  Look at Dan Severn.  He came in pure wrestler.  Sure he dominated the first few, but he didnt know how to finish.  No submission exp.  That was UFC4 and he lost to Gracie.  In UFC 5 he came back and was 10 times better.  He destroyed Oleg with strikes, including knees.  Gee, ya think he did a little extra training???

Mike


----------



## Shogun (May 8, 2004)

You, and I, came up with some valid points but it is really a matter of opinion. I don't think it is 100% necessary to cross train. you obviously do.The only time I have ever competed (it was local) I did pretty well for myself, and this was back when I only had japanese Jujutsu training. So really we could go on for ever bringing up good points, and pointless opinions, but I'd rather not. 

ps. My favorite fighter, BJ penn, has done Jujutsu exclusively, and is 6-1, and current lightweight champ. Some may say he has cross trained but Jujutsu contains everything. I think anyone that feels their current art is'nt good enough, and they need to cross train, should find a different art because obviously its insufficient.


----------



## MJS (May 9, 2004)

Shogun said:
			
		

> You, and I, came up with some valid points but it is really a matter of opinion. I don't think it is 100% necessary to cross train. you obviously do.The only time I have ever competed (it was local) I did pretty well for myself, and this was back when I only had japanese Jujutsu training. So really we could go on for ever bringing up good points, and pointless opinions, but I'd rather not.



Yup, you're right.  Everyone is gonna have their own opinion.



> ps. My favorite fighter, BJ penn, has done Jujutsu exclusively, and is 6-1, and current lightweight champ. Some may say he has cross trained but Jujutsu contains everything. I think anyone that feels their current art is'nt good enough, and they need to cross train, should find a different art because obviously its insufficient.



BJ is an awesome fighter!  I have had the crosstraining debate many times with my fellow Kenpoists.  I look at it like this.  As I've said, if I can take something from another art to make me better, then why not do it?  There are so many different things out there, why not take a look at all of them??  Its like going to a new restaurant.  Would you always eat the same thing or sample other things from the menu?? I know what I'd do!!!  In addition, Kenpo is very effecient!!  Sure there are weapon and grappling elements included, but I CT in BJJ to further my ground game as well as CT in Arnis to further my weapon game.  IMO, nobody addresses a stick and knife better than the Filipinos!!!!  In addition to that, they have awesome empty hand fighting skill!!!  I've been training in it for 6yrs now, and I can see a very big difference in my skills!!

Mike


----------



## buddah_belly (May 12, 2004)

I do aikido, kenjitsu, and kung fu.
Sensei teaches all three.  I started with aikido and kenjitsu and he told me when I was ready to add kung fu.


----------



## Bushido151 (May 12, 2004)

Most styles of Martial arts already include differant aspects of other arts, Karate has included joint locks and throws and differant styles of Aikido have incorperated strikes and kicks into there style. I started out studying Nihon Goshin Aikido, I thought it was the best style out there all the Aikido and we used alot of strikes and kicks and not just as a last resort, we used them in everyday techniques. And then my Sensei formed his own style, Nihon Goshinjutsu Aikido, It is everything I mentioned above but now we study Brazillian Juijitsu(sorry for the spelling) so I guess you can say we cross train all in one school.    AIKIDOBUFF.COM


----------



## Shogun (May 12, 2004)

> Sensei teaches all three. I started with aikido and kenjitsu and he told me when I was ready to add kung fu.


He teaches all three? thats awesome. I wish where I went for My Japanese arts I could learn chinese techniques. Some might say that a teacher cant fully understand his/her current art if they also teach another, but they are (in my opinion) wrong. I went back and forth with someone because they said a techer could'nt teach Aikido and Bujutsu at the same school.  Whatever.


----------



## buddah_belly (May 13, 2004)

He started out with kung fu as a teenager, and over the years learned kenjitsu and aikido.  I think it is silly to believe that you can't be proficient in more than one art.


----------



## MJS (May 13, 2004)

buddah_belly said:
			
		

> He started out with kung fu as a teenager, and over the years learned kenjitsu and aikido.  I think it is silly to believe that you can't be proficient in more than one art.



I agree!  I can name quite a few people who CT. and are effective with those skills.

Dan Inosanto
Roy Harris
Chuck Norris
Larry Hartsell
Marc Denny (Dog Bros)
Myself as well as all of my Inst.

Just to name a few.

Mike


----------



## Shogun (May 13, 2004)

My Aiki instructor is 8th Inheritor of Ideta Ryu Bujutsu. He also is an Aikido Instructor. So he blends his Jujutsu in his Aikido. But according to this guy I talked to, that is impossible. some people.........


----------



## Yari (May 14, 2004)

The question of being proficent in one art is a question of definition.

What is the meaning of being proficient?

         * To be able to show all the techniques in the art?
         * To be able to us the techniques in the art?
         * To be able to pick the art apart?
         * To be able to understand and show new techniques that follow the same spirit as the art?

And so on......


Another problem is how do you 'know' when your proficient? How do you know you learned it 'all'. 

I too believe you can cross train, the really good question is can you cross train with something that doens't obstruct your "way"?

Regards
Yari


----------



## Yari (May 14, 2004)

Yari said:
			
		

> I too believe you can cross train, the really good question is can you cross train with something that doens't obstruct your "way"?
> 
> Regards
> Yari



Sometimes I write faster than I think, or I'm thinking too fast for my writting..... :uhyeah: 

I meant " the really good question is; can you cross train with something that obstructs your way?"

/Yari


----------



## MJS (May 14, 2004)

Yari said:
			
		

> Sometimes I write faster than I think, or I'm thinking too fast for my writting..... :uhyeah:
> 
> I meant " the really good question is; can you cross train with something that obstructs your way?"
> 
> /Yari



Well, anything is possible.  Of course, finding 2 arts that blend good together, will be your best choice, but then again, if you took something like Kenpo and then Shotokan, I could see problems happening.  This is not a knock on Shotokan.  I'm simply pointing out there there will be big differences between the two.  But like I said in the beginning, anything is possible.

Mike


----------



## Yari (May 14, 2004)

MJS said:
			
		

> But like I said in the beginning, anything is possible.
> 
> Mike



I agree!

/Yari


----------



## Bushido151 (May 15, 2004)

Why is everyone harping on if two styles blend together or not? Why do they have to? At our Dojo we take half the class and train in Aikido, for stand up fighting, the other half of the class we train in BJJ for when the fight goes to the ground. We don't try to incorperate our Aikido with Bjj we just train in both.


----------



## MJS (May 15, 2004)

Bushido151 said:
			
		

> Why is everyone harping on if two styles blend together or not? Why do they have to? At our Dojo we take half the class and train in Aikido, for stand up fighting, the other half of the class we train in BJJ for when the fight goes to the ground. We don't try to incorperate our Aikido with Bjj we just train in both.



Let me use this as an example.  If you trained in an art like Kenpo for lets say 10yrs, and then made the change to a harder style such as Goju or Shotokan, the kicks, stances, and movement WILL be very different.  Kenpo flows, while the other 2 are more stiff and rigid.  Aikido and BJJ are not good examples to use due to the fact that they are 2 very different arts.  Do you think someone would have an easy time training in the arts that I mentioned at the same time?? I dont think they would.

Mike


----------



## buddah_belly (May 19, 2004)

Is it easy?

Nope

Is it possible?

Absolutely

Is it worth it?

That's a personal decision, but for me, it's the right one.


----------



## Yari (May 19, 2004)

buddah_belly said:
			
		

> Is it worth it?
> 
> That's a personal decision, but for me, it's the right one.



I'm not trying to pick a fight, but I find this very interessting. Doesn't this inclince that you know the answer up front? And if you do, how can you expect to improve?

/Yari


----------



## brothershaw (May 21, 2004)

The problem with cross training ( and i say this from personal experience) is 
1- It cuts into the time and energy you could spend on just one art.
2- If done too soon in your martial arts  training, the footwork, strikes, positions can turn into a jumble that is half one thing , half the other , and mainly incorrect. Particularly things that seem or look similiar on the surface.
3- It can really slow done your progress. 
4- You may try to train styles that use the body differently. 

On the plus side if you can tough it out, it does broaden your base of knowledge, and keeps you from just living in the bubble of the one school you train at, with people who do exactly what you do. 

Alot of arts have alot of info in them but it takes along time to learn it all, and sometimes you dont need or want to learn it all much less have the time to devote to it all. But if you can give one art 10- 15 years and squeeze 3-5 in one or 2 other things thats not bad. 
So if you do striking,  aikido, judo or jujitsu might be good for throws,and locks.  The fmas' for weapons.etc.


----------



## buddah_belly (May 24, 2004)

First of all, and probably most important, I cross-train for different reasons than most people.  I'm not trying to become some great fighter with some "complete" system of technqiues.  
I cross train in kenjitsu because the moves are very similar to aikido and it helps my distance and timing.  My open hand techniques are better after having done them with a bokken in my hand.  
I cross train in kung fu because my instructor asked me to.  He said it would be a good way for me to develop proper use of ki (whether you believe in it or not is irrelevant).  I'm not learning kung fu to learn kung fu.  I'm learning kung fu to learn how to use ki (chi since it's the Chinese art), which will make my aikido better.  



> 2- If done too soon in your martial arts training, the footwork, strikes, positions can turn into a jumble that is half one thing , half the other , and mainly incorrect. Particularly things that seem or look similiar on the surface.


That's why I didn't until my instructor asked me to.  He knows when I'm ready.  



> Doesn't this inclince that you know the answer up front? And if you do, how can you expect to improve?


That statement is based on having spent some time doing multiple arts.  I think it's worth it for me.  It's hard, but I've learned so much.  I'm not sure I understand your question.  Just because I think it's worth doing (in my case) doesn't mean I don't have tons of room for improvement. All I was saying is that it's a choice I made and it was right for me.  It may not be right for everybody else and that's cool.  I'm not advocating that everyone go out and do three martial arts.  Yeah it's hard, but yeah it's possible, and in my case, it's worth the effort.


----------



## MJS (May 24, 2004)

buddah_belly said:
			
		

> First of all, and probably most important, I cross-train for different reasons than most people.  I'm not trying to become some great fighter with some "complete" system of technqiues.
> I cross train in kenjitsu because the moves are very similar to aikido and it helps my distance and timing.  My open hand techniques are better after having done them with a bokken in my hand.
> I cross train in kung fu because my instructor asked me to.  He said it would be a good way for me to develop proper use of ki (whether you believe in it or not is irrelevant).  I'm not learning kung fu to learn kung fu.  I'm learning kung fu to learn how to use ki (chi since it's the Chinese art), which will make my aikido better.



Good points.  Many times by crosstraining, it can make your base art that much better.  My Arnis did that for me, by making my empty hand reaction time and sensitivity much better!



> That's why I didn't until my instructor asked me to.  He knows when I'm ready.



My very first teacher didnt really CT on a regular basis, but he never discouraged me to do it.  Definately waiting until you have a good base art is key. 



> That statement is based on having spent some time doing multiple arts.  I think it's worth it for me.  It's hard, but I've learned so much.  I'm not sure I understand your question.  Just because I think it's worth doing (in my case) doesn't mean I don't have tons of room for improvement. All I was saying is that it's a choice I made and it was right for me.  It may not be right for everybody else and that's cool.  I'm not advocating that everyone go out and do three martial arts.  Yeah it's hard, but yeah it's possible, and in my case, it's worth the effort.



I agree.  It was worth it for me as well.  Sure, anytime you have to start over, its gonna take time, but there is nothing wrong with taking a look at the many different things that are out there.

Mike


----------



## Shogun (May 24, 2004)

Some good advice I got from my Ninjutsu instructor was that I did'nt have to forget one thing to learn another, nor did I have to blend the two, I simply could learn both, and know they are two separate things. I dont have a problem with "cross-training", but as I said before, doing it because you believe your system is incomplete not only is an insult to your style, but it makes your own ignorance known. If you are doing it to better yourself however, this is very good. The greatest Martial Artists of all time did this, including Osensei Ueshiba, and everyones favorite (well, almost) bruce Lee.


----------



## Bushido151 (May 25, 2004)

brothershaw said:
			
		

> The problem with cross training ( and i say this from personal experience) is
> 1- It cuts into the time and energy you could spend on just one art.
> 2- If done too soon in your martial arts training, the footwork, strikes, positions can turn into a jumble that is half one thing , half the other , and mainly incorrect. Particularly things that seem or look similiar on the surface.
> 3- It can really slow done your progress.
> ...


----------



## MJS (May 25, 2004)

Shogun said:
			
		

> I dont have a problem with "cross-training", but as I said before, doing it because you believe your system is incomplete not only is an insult to your style, but it makes your own ignorance known. If you are doing it to better yourself however, this is very good. The greatest Martial Artists of all time did this, including Osensei Ueshiba, and everyones favorite (well, almost) bruce Lee.



While styles of martial arts all contain certain aspects of things, its important to remember that they are not complete aspects.  For example, in Kenpo, there are defenses against takedowns and grabs (standing grappling) but it does not address every aspect of the ground.  The same can be said for the Arnis that I also do.  We have ground techs. but to think that by just taking those set techs. as being fully prepared...well, that IMO, is uneducated thinking.  I do BJJ because I know that while Kenpo can address some aspects of the ground, BJJ would provide me with a better understanding of it.  In addition, due to that understanding, it improves my Kenpo.  

I crosstrain to make myself better.  While I probably wont devote 20 yrs to every style that I train in, I can take the ideas and concepts that I have learned and apply them to every art that I train.

Mike


----------



## Shogun (May 25, 2004)

> While styles of martial arts all contain certain aspects of things, its important to remember that they are not complete


Ok, I see where you are coming from. To get the deepest understanding, one may practice an art, that may be strictly for that area. The thing I liked when UFC first started, was that almost everyone had a pure style. then BJJ dominated, and everyone started cross training. I understand that most martial arts are not complete in certain areas, but that does'nt mean they are not complete systems. they would not be around if they were incomplete. they were designed for a purpose, and if people still practice them, they serve their purpose. thats all I'm saying. to understand everything, I guess it would be best to study anything offered to you. I study (primarly) Classical Japanese jujutsu. but on top of that, I understand it may not be best for today. however, it has taught me a lot when it comes to body movement, geometry, and physical application of technique. I always say this, but ring sports and street fights, while differerent, have one thing in common, once they start, there is no time for fancy technique, for all martial arts convert back to the basics of the system. simple as that. As Fumio Demura says, If you have good basics, you will succeed in anything you do. I dont cross train in order to be "complete", I simply study other arts to see what they have to offer. you know, for fun.


----------



## MJS (May 25, 2004)

Shogun said:
			
		

> Ok, I see where you are coming from. To get the deepest understanding, one may practice an art, that may be strictly for that area. The thing I liked when UFC first started, was that almost everyone had a pure style. then BJJ dominated, and everyone started cross training. I understand that most martial arts are not complete in certain areas, but that does'nt mean they are not complete systems. they would not be around if they were incomplete. they were designed for a purpose, and if people still practice them, they serve their purpose. thats all I'm saying. to understand everything, I guess it would be best to study anything offered to you. I study (primarly) Classical Japanese jujutsu. but on top of that, I understand it may not be best for today. however, it has taught me a lot when it comes to body movement, geometry, and physical application of technique. I always say this, but ring sports and street fights, while differerent, have one thing in common, once they start, there is no time for fancy technique, for all martial arts convert back to the basics of the system. simple as that. As Fumio Demura says, If you have good basics, you will succeed in anything you do. I dont cross train in order to be "complete", I simply study other arts to see what they have to offer. you know, for fun.



Just to clairfy....every style is, IMO, complete in its own right.  That being said, I dont mean to knock any style, but its just important to recognize the limits of each style.  

As for the UFC...yes, in the first few, all of the fighters were 1 style fighters.  It was not until later that many of the stand up guys realized that if they didnt understand the ground, they would never stand a chance.  I'm sure if UFC 1, none of the stand up guys ever dreamed that they'd be defeated on the ground.  

As for studying anything offered....absolutely!! Why not do it??  While we all share different reasons for training, and I can only speak for myself here, but seeing that there is so much out there, why not take a sample??  Again, I may never be a boxer on the level of a Mike Tyson, but if I could spend time with a boxer, even if we just worked on 1 punch, and then I trained those ideas every day, faithfully, look at how much my punching skill just went up!  

As for fancy things....Again, I only speak for myself but I prefer things that are simple, quick, easy to learn, and to the point!!!  

Mike


----------



## brothershaw (May 25, 2004)

Well i am definitely for cross training, not so much that i want to be a ufc fighter, but there are alot of intereting things out there, and some styles really specialize. I just try not to get in over my head, or get involved in things that are redundant.  I dont belive you have to study 2 or 3 things to be a great or good martial artist but if you have the time, energy and desire go for it. THeres  just no short cuts.


----------



## TCJitsu (Jul 18, 2004)

> In December of 98, Royce lost to Wallid Ismail by rear naked choke. Ismail is pure Jujutsu.


Royce lost to Wallid via the Okuri Jime (circle choke) or what the Brazillians call the clock choke which is done with the jacket. The rear naked or hadaka jime is a choke done with the arms figure-foured around the neck, you do not need the jacket. Ismail is not pure Jujitsu, he cross trains in boxing and muay thai.


----------

