# Abanico



## Icepick (Feb 13, 2002)

Pretty slow here...

What systems use "abanico" strikes?  What kinds?

Professor Presas generally taught 2:

1) Horizontal strike to temple, powered almost entirely by wrist and hips.  Very fast, not exceptionally powerful.  Also used against wrist of opponent, with the stick vertical and arcing from side to side.

2) Hirada or "Flywheel" back hand.  Vertical strike starting and ending on same side of body.  Powered by hips, arms and wrist.  


Manong Ted would scold me if I exhibited either of these.   
It's hard to totally stop using a technique you've done for several years!


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## fist of fury (Feb 13, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Icepick _
> *Pretty slow here...
> 
> What systems use "abanico" strikes?  What kinds?
> ...


Why did he scold you and tell you to stop?


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## Icepick (Feb 13, 2002)

Manong Ted is very strict about his Balintawak.  It's almost like chess.  He uses wrist movement like an abanico to reposition for a block or chamber, but he doesn't strike like that.  

That's why I wondered what other systems use them.  I've been told that Pekiti Tersia uses the strike I've described as #2, but I've never trained any.


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## Black Grass (Feb 13, 2002)

The second strike you describe sounds  like part of a favorite combination on the late PG Edgar Suluite of Lameco

To use the Modern Arnis numbering:

1) Number # 1 strike 
2) followed by what you describe as a hirada
3) finishing with a #2 strike

I believe this combination came from De Campo 1-2-3 orhinal system.

The abanico of kali Ilustrisimo is very different then what other systems describe as abanico (the first strike you describe and very common). Tatang Ilustrisimo used the edge not the flat of the blade (or stick). The strikes would rebound left to right on the body.

Black Grass


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## Rubber Ducky (Feb 13, 2002)

I'm new to FMA so I'm not sure what this is, however the second Abanico (hirada) you describe sounds like what we call "redondo" in Pekiti Tirsia (later you mention that you'd heard PT had something similar that's why I'm posting).

Pierre


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## thekuntawman (Feb 13, 2002)

there is the pekiti tirsia method of fighting as a strategy, and the pekiti tirsia the style of nene tortal and leo gaje. also the name of a striking technqiue which we call abaniko, then there is the method of fighting called abaniko. then there is cadena de mano the method of close quarters stick fighting and knife fighting, and the method of tapi tapi stick and knife.

the strategy of pekiti tirsia, abaniko, cadena de mano, and tapi tapi are all the same thing, and they are the calling card of visayan eskrima and cebu fighting styles. many style have that style or method of strategy in there own style, and they can call them differently, but when you know this it makes everything easier to understand, i think. this is why i think its funny when somebody says "i invented this technique". everyone, almost everyone knows the same thing, they are just better at somethings than someone else.

i just thought i could share that with everyone.


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## Icepick (Feb 14, 2002)

Ducky -

The Dog Bros. call that a redondo as well.  Since they have PT roots, I think we are talking about the same thing.  I use that strike, but tend to expose my elbow.  Do you train to reduce that?

Black Grass -

Can you go into any more detail about Ilustrisimo using the edge rather than the flat?  Are you just bending the wrist to change the angle of the weapon or is there a greater difference?    Thanks for the combo, I'm going to work that a bit!

IP


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## Rubber Ducky (Feb 14, 2002)

Elbow:

As I said, I'm new.  It seems to me that the Dog Bros training to reduce elbow exposure is repeated contact to the exposed elbow 

To answer your question less tongue-in-cheek, I don't know.  I would suppose so but since I haven't done any extensive training on this yet I haven't experienced it.

Pierre


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## Icepick (Feb 14, 2002)

Kuntawman (or anyone else) -

A friend of mine who has done a lot of SCA style fencing likes to strike with what looks like a #1 forehand.  At the last moment, he turns his wrist to bring the tip around your block, toward the back of your head.  Is this strike common to many FMA systems you've seen?


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## Cthulhu (Feb 14, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Icepick _
> *Kuntawman (or anyone else) -
> 
> A friend of mine who has done a lot of SCA style fencing likes to strike with what looks like a #1 forehand.  At the last moment, he turns his wrist to bring the tip around your block, toward the back of your head.  Is this strike common to many FMA systems you've seen? *



In what I'm training, that's just an abanico strike.  An abanico strike can be to any target; it just describes the appearance of the striking motion.

As for the redondo strike, we do the same thing, but for it to be a redondo, we have to hit the target at least twice.

Cthulhu


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## thekuntawman (Feb 15, 2002)

i think what you are talking about is performing a strike to the opponents head, then you twist the wrist to hit behind the block? then yes its veyr common. another favorite technique of mine is when my arm or stick is blocked i turn the stick point in and thrust the opponent with the end. try it in sparring it works i guaratnee it.

for blades, you never want to hit with the flat part of the weapon because it doesnt do any damage and it will weaken your weapon maybe even break it if it meet the other guys weapon. some people do it in practice so they dont dent the weapon, but never in fighting. i dont believe in doind that even in practice, that why we have wood weapons. but a good technqique to use is to hit with the back of the blade which we call the gulugud, the spine of the weapon. it does good damage when you dont want to kill your opponent. this is also the part you use to block his weapon or parry. dont use the blade for anything except cutting your opponent, because the blade is the weakest part, and this is how sword gets broken in battle. plus in practice you will ruin swords and that very expensive.

abaniko is good to use for blades but you have to know the technique for it, teaching yourself doesnt really help much. its also good for small knife fighting too.


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## Black Grass (Feb 15, 2002)

the difference between the hirada and the redondo ( or redonda) is that in the hirada the stick travels back on the same path as the strike . Hirada is a big witik  or rebounding strike (at least thats what i think it it is). redondo/redonda continue on a circlular path. 

Icepick,

The action is more that just twisting the wrist but bending at the elbow, so the abanico action tales place at the elbow as opposed of the wrist, in conjuction with the arms and the waist.

regards,,
Black Grass


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## thekuntawman (Mar 14, 2002)

we have 8 hits

1. temple inside
2. temple outside
3. wrist inside (downward)
4. wrist outside (downward)
5. face (going up from the front)
6. groing (down from the front)
7. elbow/back from the outside
8. elbow/back from the inside

7 and 8 can be to the legs also


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