# Stepping with the 2-handed push



## Handsword (Jun 16, 2003)

For each of Kenpo's two-handed push techniques, do you specify which leg the attacker is to step forward with in the 'ideal' phase?

For example, I find that Parting Wings works best if the attacker steps forward with the left leg as this allows the initial chop to the side of ribs to a closer target.

But if this is correct, then do all of the ideal 2-handed push attacks involve the left leg forward?  I personally wouldn't think so.

As another example, I find that Hooking Wings allows for a clearer angle for the initial groin kick if the attacker steps forward with the right leg in the ideal phase.

Do you agree/disagree with the examples above?

What about other 2-handed attack techniques such as:

Alternating Maces
Thrusting Wedge
Fatal Cross
Snaking Talon
Twist of Fate

Does a specific leg stepping forward assist the ideal phase in the above?


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## ArnoldLee (Jun 16, 2003)

For Parting Wings I find that what leg the attacker uses has absolutely nothing to do with how well I can reach the ribcage.  The reason being that most people do the attack too gently--they kinda waddle in with their arms stiffly extended.

If the attacker comes in with a lot of "juice" you will have absolutely no problem reaching the target...It will come to you darn fast and you better get that handsword off quick.

When Mr. Parker saw that the attack was not being done properly he would-unbeknownst to the attacker- quietly step up behind them and then forcefully propel them towards whoever was practicing Parting Wings.  That would bring some realistic timing to the technique.  If they didn't pull off that ribcage shot they would get bowled over.  (I kind of feel sorry for the poor attacker who suddenly found himself airborne only to be dropped an instant later then lays there wondering what just happened.)


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## Doc (Jun 26, 2003)

> _Originally posted by ArnoldLee _
> *For Parting Wings I find that what leg the attacker uses has absolutely nothing to do with how well I can reach the ribcage.  The reason being that most people do the attack too gently--they kinda waddle in with their arms stiffly extended.
> 
> If the attacker comes in with a lot of "juice" you will have absolutely no problem reaching the target...It will come to you darn fast and you better get that handsword off quick.
> ...



While I agree with you in principle, it is not the handsword to the rib cage that controls the depth of the attack. No it doesn't matter which leg is forward in a properly defined default technique.


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## Disco (Jun 26, 2003)

You guys have indeed your own terminoligy. Could or does anybody have an english translation to what your discussing. I think I know what a few of the translations are, but for the most part, to quote Adam Saddler "Whoopideee Dooooo"!

No offense intended, but half of the time I think I'm listening to wild kindom; Chicken wing, Roosters beak, flailing wings, snakes hand shake etc........ I'm probably the only one with enough courage or stupid enough to ask this, your choice.:asian:


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## Doc (Jun 26, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Disco _
> *You guys have indeed your own terminoligy. Could or does anybody have an english translation to what your discussing. I think I know what a few of the translations are, but for the most part, to quote Adam Saddler "Whoopideee Dooooo"!
> 
> No offense intended, but half of the time I think I'm listening to wild kindom; Chicken wing, Roosters beak, flailing wings, snakes hand shake etc........ I'm probably the only one with enough courage or stupid enough to ask this, your choice.:asian: *


With all due respect,
there is a tremendous diversity of terminology in the many interpretations of kenpo, and this category encompasses a multitude of them. Additionally, for many terminology is being deveolped on an ongoing basis, therefore there is no one place you may go that is a dictionary, glossory, or encyclopedia that will serve as an overall reference. Unfortunately you find yourself in a dicussion category that apparently you are unfamiliar with, and need to accept that by your choice to be here. However in the interest of education and communcation, I suggest when you come upon a "term" you wish  to be explained, you be specific about the explanation you desire. In this manner I'm sure our many diverse posters will be more than glad to accomodate you whenever possible.


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## jfarnsworth (Jun 26, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Disco _
> *You guys have indeed your own terminoligy. Could or does anybody have an english translation to what your discussing. I think I know what a few of the translations are, but for the most part, to quote Adam Saddler "Whoopideee Dooooo"!
> 
> No offense intended, but half of the time I think I'm listening to wild kindom; Chicken wing, Roosters beak, flailing wings, snakes hand shake etc........ I'm probably the only one with enough courage or stupid enough to ask this, your choice.:asian: *




For you answer; you have nothing in your profile so how do we have any idea of what you know or don't know?


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## Disco (Jun 26, 2003)

As was previously pointed out, each style of kenpo has their own ongoing terminology. I was only wondering if they broke it down into plain english (ie: blocks - high, low, outside, inside etc. Strikes: Palm hand, knife hand chop, reverse KH, hammer fist etc. etc.) When somebody comes into train for the first time, I would assume the terminology is explained to them. You never know when someone just may have a good veiwpoint on a technique, if they understood the context of what was being discussed, plus the fact that we / I just may learn something.


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## howardr (Jun 26, 2003)

Interesting note: three of your "plain English" terms are actually symbols themselves:



> knife hand chop, reverse KH, hammer fist



"Knife hand" doesn't refer to anything in plain English but uses a comparison that once explained clarifies and furthers communication, which then becomes a plain English expression for that person. Same thing for "hammer fist." For the uninitiated these "plain English" terms would sound just as foreign as "Parting Wings" does to you. However, for the Kenpoist "Parting Wings" is just plain English as "knife hand" and "hammer fist" are apparently for you.


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## Handsword (Jun 26, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Disco _
> *As was previously pointed out, each style of kenpo has their own ongoing terminology. I was only wondering if they broke it down into plain english (ie: blocks - high, low, outside, inside etc. Strikes: Palm hand, knife hand chop, reverse KH, hammer fist etc. etc.) When somebody comes into train for the first time, I would assume the terminology is explained to them. You never know when someone just may have a good veiwpoint on a technique, if they understood the context of what was being discussed, plus the fact that we / I just may learn something. *



Hi Disco,

There's a whole book devoted to this topic - 'The Encyclopedia of Kenpo' will tell you what you need to know (hmmm ... this has given me an idea for a new thread).  To get you started, technique names use the following - 

palm hand - salute
(reverse) knife hand chop - sword
hammer fist - hammer
closed fist punch - mace
elbows - wings


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## Handsword (Jun 26, 2003)

For a more comprehensive list than the one I just gave, check out the thread at the top of this technical discussion forum.  It's specifically devoted to the terminology.


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## Doc (Jun 26, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Handsword _
> *Hi Disco,
> 
> There's a whole book devoted to this topic - 'The Encyclopedia of Kenpo' will tell you what you need to know (hmmm ... this has given me an idea for a new thread).  To get you started, technique names use the following -
> ...


The text and information you speak of is over 13 years old and is far from definitive, and will not include interpretations other than those for some interpretations of EPAK. However it will give someone a place from which to start an educational process.


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## Disco (Jun 27, 2003)

Gentlemen, I thank you for your your kindness. Appriciate the info.
:asian:


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## Touch Of Death (Jun 27, 2003)

I think the only time an attacker does the attack wrong is when he does it exactly how you ask him to.


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## D.Cobb (Jun 28, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Touch'O'Death _
> *I think the only time an attacker does the attack wrong is when he does it exactly how you ask him to. *



Unless you tell him, *"Make it real, pal!"* 

 

--Dave
:asian:


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## rmcrobertson (Jun 29, 2003)

Actually, it's often both useful and wise to tell dummies exactly how you want the attack done, when you're teaching. This has the salutary effect of teaching the dummy how to launch decent attacks...and it also helps make it possible for students to learn.


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## Doc (Jun 29, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Touch'O'Death _
> *I think the only time an attacker does the attack wrong is when he does it exactly how you ask him to. *



According to Ed Parker:

Therefore, the ideal techniques are built around seemingly inflexible and one dimensional assumptions for a good purpose. They provide us with a basis from which we may begin our analytical process, (like a control model in any reliable scientific experiment). Prescribed techniques applied to prescribed reactions are the keys that make a basic technique IDEAL or FIXED. - Ed Parker

Quote taken from the Last IKKA Green belt Manual


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