# Opening a school?



## dubljay (May 17, 2005)

At what rank of black belt would you think it is acceptable for some one to open a school?  Once they have learned all the extensions and forms? (which varies as there are the 16 24 and 32 technique systems)


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## Mark Weiser (May 18, 2005)

The Standard for being a Full Instructor is Third Dan in American Kenpo.  I would not start to think about going out and starting a school until this level at least but in my opinion I would not do so until obtaining Fifth Dan in American Kenpo.


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## hammer (May 18, 2005)

Mark Weiser said:
			
		

> The Standard for being a Full Instructor is Third Dan in American Kenpo. I would not start to think about going out and starting a school until this level at least but in my opinion I would not do so until obtaining Fifth Dan in American Kenpo.


Whilst what you say is 100 precent correct, I am of the opinion, there would be no harm in a black belt that has the blessings and guidance of their instuctor to start a school.I would asume that a black belt in kenpo has logged many hours of teaching during his course. Yet the disired qualities to be a teacher or instructor are not the same as having said rank, sad but true. I remeber a quote from my instructor that said, For every 100 students you would be lucky to have ten black belts, and for every ten Black belts, you will be lucky to have one Instructor.

I feel that if you put meaning to the above quote then that would be true to.

Just my thoughts.


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## Big Pat (May 18, 2005)

In the olden days (70's) many 1st degree Black belts openned studios. Of course this was when the 32 technique system was taught. If I remember correctly there might have been some restrictions on locations and territories near other Parker studios, especially in the San Diego area. It was common courtesy not to step on too many toes.  :ultracool 

EKP RIP
Big Pat


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## Gemini (May 18, 2005)

dubljay said:
			
		

> At what rank of black belt would you think it is acceptable for some one to open a school? Once they have learned all the extensions and forms? (which varies as there are the 16 24 and 32 technique systems)


I think this has the least amount to do with opening a school, regardless of what art it is. Sure, you need to know the criteria, but far more importantly, you need to know that you are able to successfully convey your knowledge to students of all different ages, body types, personalities and so on. Study of human character takes more than just a couple of years. You have a 6 year old that is scared of his own shadow, an 11 year old that strives for nothing if not to compete on a national level, you have a 53 year old woman with shot knees, on and on it goes. All requiring different methods to acheive success. Not only do you have to be able to recognize it, you have to be able to manipulate it to an end that even they may not understand or accept. you must gain their faith and respect and be able to show them on a daily basis why you deserve it. I could go on for pages, but you get the idea.


Then you have the business aspect of the school. Full time, part time, own, rent, sublet, material equipment, rent, utilities, how to keep from being a MCDojo but offer quality training, and the biggie, start up capital, etc. etc. Again, lots more, but you get the idea.


Or, I could be all wrong.


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## MisterMike (May 18, 2005)

I'd say by 3rd degree black, since by then most people have had the whole system at least introduced, and because it is when Parker acknowledged someone as a full instructor. That and at least 10 years training, prefereably a couple of those years assisting teaching at your current school at all levels you plan to teach.


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## searcher (May 19, 2005)

Even though I don't have a BB in EPAK I hope it is alright if I chime in here.   I require all of my students to start assisting at 1st Dan.   At 2nd Dan they are to be leading class with an instructor setting the structure and giving them direction.  At 4th dan I will allow them to take on a class and if they feel they are ready I will let them go it on their own(starting their own school).   It does vary from student to student, but most are ready at 4th Dan to break away and start their own.   I do make it clear that there is more to being an owner/operator than just going in and teaching class.  They need to get a good understanding of the business side as well.   Just my $0.02 worth.


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## Ray (May 19, 2005)

Depends on why you want to teach.  You might test the waters by teaching at the Y or some other venue that doesn't require a lot of cash investment.  I say give it a try.  You might find that you're a really good teacher, or you might find that you're not.  

Be honest with your students.  Don't stop learning; (you may have to travel to find someone reputable to continue learning from).  Nothing can give you experience like "doing" can. 

{I am assuming you've had some experience, maybe having led your own instructor's classes when he/she couldn't be there, etc?}


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## ikenpo (May 22, 2005)

searcher said:
			
		

> Even though I don't have a BB in EPAK I hope it is alright if I chime in here.   I require all of my students to start assisting at 1st Dan.   At 2nd Dan they are to be leading class with an instructor setting the structure and giving them direction.  At 4th dan I will allow them to take on a class and if they feel they are ready I will let them go it on their own(starting their own school).   It does vary from student to student, but most are ready at 4th Dan to break away and start their own.   I do make it clear that there is more to being an owner/operator than just going in and teaching class.  They need to get a good understanding of the business side as well.   Just my $0.02 worth.



At what rate to they actually progress through your system? The time frame for an AK Black Belt and subsequent ranks is a fairly lengthy process....

Regards, jb


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## Fightback2 (May 23, 2005)

Our Sensei is a 2nd degree bb and has run the school for nearly 10 years with great success.  

The public does look at belt rank because the don't have any other yard stick to measure by but the personality of the black belt means as much or more than their actual rank.  Can this person handle a roomful of 10 year olds who are having a really bad day while maintaining his or her own cool?  TOUGH job.  Someone who is quick to anger and slow to cool shouldn't open a school no matter what their rank.

If the person is a first degree with a couple of years under his belt (pardon the pun) and has the patience and business sense to run a school - go for it.


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## evenflow1121 (May 23, 2005)

My first Kenpo teacher was a 2nd degree bb going on 3rd, nothing wrong with that.  The guy that taught me tkd as a younglin was a 9th degree and what he taught sucked.  So, while there is certainly a threshold, rank isnt everything after a certain level.  If your instructor's teacher gave him his blessing and they are legit, I dont see a problem with it.  As for me I may one day open up a school, if I am financially stable and all my school loans are paid off, and if I am fortunate enough to reach 4th bb which would be my own personal goal before opening up a school.


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## detroitfan102 (Jun 29, 2005)

My instructor was a third degree black belt when he opened his own school. He already had 25 years of experience under him. As long as they know what they are doing and is a great teacher is doesn't really matter.


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## Bob White (Jun 29, 2005)

In 1972 I openned my own school. I was a 1st degree. Because of the education I received from Mr. Parker I felt I was prepared to share my knowledge with other people. I was also fortunate that I had been involved in other athletics and had experienced good coaching. 33 years later I have had a great career blessed with many rewards. I don`t believe that rank is as important as commitment to improvement. If you suit up and show up with enthusiasm you can help people and have a successful school. If you remember that being a leader means being in service you have a better chance of keeping your doors open.
Respectfully,
Bob White


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## rupton (Jun 29, 2005)

Fightback2 said:
			
		

> Our Sensei is a 2nd degree bb and has run the school for nearly 10 years with great success.
> 
> The public does look at belt rank because the don't have any other yard stick to measure by but the personality of the black belt means as much or more than their actual rank. Can this person handle a roomful of 10 year olds who are having a really bad day while maintaining his or her own cool? TOUGH job. Someone who is quick to anger and slow to cool shouldn't open a school no matter what their rank.
> 
> If the person is a first degree with a couple of years under his belt (pardon the pun) and has the patience and business sense to run a school - go for it.


I think it's important to remember that belt rank is also usually an indicator of how much of the style you have learned.  Usually being the bold underlined word   I think that is very important if you plan to open a school teaching the same style.  That is to say the instructor should know the good majority of the style, that is why some schools or organizations have Dan requirements on school owners/operators.


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## True2Kenpo (Jul 7, 2005)

Bob White said:
			
		

> In 1972 I openned my own school. I was a 1st degree. Because of the education I received from Mr. Parker I felt I was prepared to share my knowledge with other people. I was also fortunate that I had been involved in other athletics and had experienced good coaching. 33 years later I have had a great career blessed with many rewards. I don`t believe that rank is as important as commitment to improvement. If you suit up and show up with enthusiasm you can help people and have a successful school. If you remember that being a leader means being in service you have a better chance of keeping your doors open.
> Respectfully,
> Bob White



Professor White,

What great words!  Always an inspiration.  Hope all is well sir.

With great respect,
Joshua Ryer


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## Kenpodoc (Jul 7, 2005)

Bob White said:
			
		

> In 1972 I openned my own school. I was a 1st degree. Because of the education I received from Mr. Parker I felt I was prepared to share my knowledge with other people. I was also fortunate that I had been involved in other athletics and had experienced good coaching. 33 years later I have had a great career blessed with many rewards. I don`t believe that rank is as important as commitment to improvement. If you suit up and show up with enthusiasm you can help people and have a successful school. If you remember that being a leader means being in service you have a better chance of keeping your doors open.
> Respectfully,
> Bob White


I suspect that you had more to offer than the average black belt. That said, I see no reason why a Brown belt couldn't open a school, provided they continue training with their teacher, work hard, be honest with their student's and most importantly don't buy a black belt from AWMA and pass themselves off as something they are not.

Jeff


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## Sapper6 (Jul 7, 2005)

Kenpodoc said:
			
		

> I suspect that you had more to offer than the average black belt. That said, I see no reason why a Brown belt couldn't open a school, provided they continue training with their teacher, work hard, be honest with their student's and most importantly don't buy a black belt from AWMA and pass themselves off as something they are not.
> 
> Jeff



i agree.  Ed Parker Sr. was a just a brown belt when he began teaching at BYU.


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## dubljay (Jul 7, 2005)

I want to thank everyone who has contributed to this thread, especially Mr. White.  THe adivce given has exceded my expectations, and has helped me not only define when someone can become an instructor, but also what an instructor truely is.

 Thank you.

 -Josh


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## Atlanta-Kenpo (Jul 7, 2005)

I have always been told that in order to promote a student to any rank you much be at least a 1st dan.  You must be at least a 2nd dan before you could promote them to 1st black.

I have always been told that you can only promote someone to 1 rank below your and no higher.  By this I mean to say that since I am a 1st dan I can promote only to brown belt and not black belt.


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## Kenpodoc (Jul 8, 2005)

Atlanta-Kenpo said:
			
		

> I have always been told that in order to promote a student to any rank you much be at least a 1st dan.  You must be at least a 2nd dan before you could promote them to 1st black.
> 
> I have always been told that you can only promote someone to 1 rank below your and no higher.  By this I mean to say that since I am a 1st dan I can promote only to brown belt and not black belt.


I've always been told that you could only promote to ranks below, so as a 3rd brown you could only promote to Blue.  That said it does get a little dicey promoting people before you reach black, but with a close relationship with a senior instructor could bypass this problem.  

Jeff


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## thesensei (Jul 8, 2005)

My instructor told me that as a brown belt, I could only promote to 2 levels below me.  When I reached 1st dan, then I could promote to one level below.  He is now 4th dan, so he can promote to 3rd.

Salute,
Jeremiah


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## Bob White (Jul 18, 2005)

Professor White,

What great words! Always an inspiration. Hope all is well sir.

With great respect,
Joshua Ryer
__________________

Hello Josh
All is well. I hope the same for you and your students. I have enjoyed your "On The Mat" series. It is a great service to kenpo. Keep them coming.
I am sure your school is going well with your enthusiasm and commitment to our art. 
I hope you make it out for Frank Trejo`s IKC.
Respectfully,
Bob White


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## True2Kenpo (Jul 19, 2005)

Bob White said:
			
		

> Hello Josh
> All is well. I hope the same for you and your students. I have enjoyed your "On The Mat" series. It is a great service to kenpo. Keep them coming.
> I am sure your school is going well with your enthusiasm and commitment to our art.
> I hope you make it out for Frank Trejo`s IKC.
> ...



Professor White,

Great to hear from you sir!  Thank you for the kind words regarding the "On the Mat" Series.  The school is doing pretty good...  just keep working on improving! 

Unfortuately, I will be unable to attend the IKC's (as much as I would really like to be there).  

But the great news is I am getting married this weekend   So we are getting pretty pumped up about that!

Anyway, it is always great to hear from you and I wish you the very best!

Respectfully,
Joshua Ryer


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## Michael Billings (Jul 19, 2005)

Congratulations Josh.

 -Michael


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## kenpochad (Jul 19, 2005)

dubljay said:
			
		

> I want to thank everyone who has contributed to this thread, especially Mr. White. THe adivce given has exceded my expectations, and has helped me not only define when someone can become an instructor, but also what an instructor truely is.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> -Josh


Good luck on the your decision what ever it may be


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## Seabrook (Jul 20, 2005)

True2Kenpo said:
			
		

> But the great news is I am getting married this weekend  So we are getting pretty pumped up about that!
> 
> 
> Respectfully,
> Joshua Ryer


That is great news Joshua. Congratulations!!!

I have been married 4 years now....it's awesome. 

The wedding day can be a little stressfull - hang in there, the journey begins thereafter. 

God Bless my friend.

Jamie Seabrook
www.seabrook.gotkenpo.com


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