# Bock Lesner vs. Frank Mir?



## Brian R. VanCise (Feb 3, 2008)

Enjoy!

http://www.dailymotion.com/relevanc...lj_ufc81brocklesnarvsfrankmirlast-part_events


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## terryl965 (Feb 3, 2008)

Well Brock is a brawler and he dound out that technique can be devastating in the ring. I beleive he has alot to learn to really be competitive.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Feb 3, 2008)

terryl965 said:


> Well Brock is a brawler and he dound out that technique can be devastating in the ring. I beleive he has alot to learn to really be competitive.


 
His handler's really blew it by putting him in their with a former UFC champ.  Still with a little more training he will be a force.


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## Makalakumu (Feb 3, 2008)

Brock needs to get some more grappling.  Mir set up that that ankle and it seem like Brock didn't even see it coming.  If I were Brock, I'd get on the horn and get hooked up with Greg Nelson, a bjj blackbelt and mma trainer in Brooklyn Park MN.  This is the same guy who trained Shaun Sherk.


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## Freestyler777 (Feb 3, 2008)

I was really impressed with Lesnar's takedowns, but his ground n pound was not as effectual as possible, and Mir showed that technique beats strength in Jiu-jitsu. 

There is potential in Lesnar, but what happened was no surprise to me.  Mir is a guy who has been training and fighting all his life.  Lesnar was a great amateur wrestler who went into show business and decided to have his second MMA bout against a former UFC champ.  Not wise.


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## kaizasosei (Feb 3, 2008)

amazing...nicely done.  good thing that he got the leglock when he did because lesner *seemed* faster and tougher to me.   i admit, i thought mir was going to get his *** kicked.-  one bad thing was i think that his first kick after being stopped for hits to back of the head..  the kick looked really unstable and not powerful.  
   one really positive thing that stood out to me, was how relaxed he was, during and after the fight. i found that to be quite interesting.

j


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## Andy Moynihan (Feb 3, 2008)

It's the same thing as back when pro football players got the ridiculous idea in their heads that they knew how to box, went over,  and got owned. *shrug*


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## Brian R. VanCise (Feb 3, 2008)

Andy Moynihan said:


> It's the same thing as back when pro football players got the ridiculous idea in their heads that they knew how to box, went over, and got owned. *shrug*


 
Yes to play at the highest level in almost any sport takes time, patience and a willingness to learn how the game is played.  Lesner seems to be willing to learn but he needs to put in the time if he is going to be really successful.


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## terryl965 (Feb 3, 2008)

Brian R. VanCise said:


> Yes to play at the highest level in almost any sport takes time, patience and a willingness to learn how the game is played. Lesner seems to be willing to learn but he needs to put in the time if he is going to be really successful.


 
Yes this is true but he has been at the high level and he knows this, *so why is he not getting the right type of training for this sport. This is a question that needs to be looked at in depth.*


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## 14 Kempo (Feb 3, 2008)

Well, Mir was sustaining damage throughout, but even an untrained groundfighter such as myself, could see he was setting up that leg. Of course, I'm not saying that I would have noticed in the heat of battle, any more than Lesnar did ... LOL ... good job Mir, that was one big MF'er you beat.


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## ChadWarner (Feb 3, 2008)

I think the match was somewhat controversial.  Mir was getting beat on then the point was taken away and they were stood back up.  What I saw was Mir turn his head to avoid facial contact, I think the point and warning were premature.  Might have turned out different if it was not for that, Lesnar had Mir controlled and was pounding on Mirs head...  But on Mirs behalf he set Lesnar up very well with two armbar attempts and then the leg lock.


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## Eternal Beginner (Feb 3, 2008)

upnorthkyosa said:


> Brock needs to get some more grappling. Mir set up that that ankle and it seem like Brock didn't even see it coming. If I were Brock, I'd get on the horn and get hooked up with Greg Nelson, a bjj blackbelt and mma trainer in Brooklyn Park MN. This is the same guy who trained Shaun Sherk.


I believe he was training at the Minnesota Martial Arts Academy with Nick "the goat" Thompson and Greg Nelson before this fight.
http://beat.bodoglife.com/sports/nick-the-goat-thompson-on-training-with-brock-lesnar-19399.html

http://canadianpress.google.com/article/ALeqM5ggkLNO8DDWYrLSFLgntlrW5SMYTA


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## Archangel M (Feb 3, 2008)

Lesner is a HUGE dude with some good speed. With some work on his technique he could be a force to be reckoned with. That being said. Mir was a poor choice to start a fight career on.


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## funnytiger (Feb 4, 2008)

I don't know. I hear everyone saying that Mir was a poor first choice, but if they had set Lesnar up with some nobody or a subpar fighter (which he would not have agreed to anyway) there would be a bunch of posts about how he got someone who was too easy for him when he would have beat the crap out of them. (Kind of like his first MMA fight.)

I think Frank was the perfect person to set him up with. Lesnar wanted a challenge and he got it, and I agree that the match would have ended a lot differently if the ref hadn't of stopped the match to stand him up for a 1.5 shot to the back of the head (seriously).

Lesnar had unbelievable strength and agility. He will learn by trial I imagine and he will learn well. His stand up was better than Mir that night and even though his ground and pound wasn't as effective as it could have been he was still smashing the crap out of Mir's face and Mir was desperately trying to figure out what the hell to do.

Kudos to Mir for weathering the storm of large fists raining down on his face and finding that easy submission. With a little more experience I think Brock is going to prove the doubters wrong and demolish some people.

- ft


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## Kenpojujitsu3 (Feb 4, 2008)

funnytiger said:


> I don't know. I hear everyone saying that Mir was a poor first choice, but if they had set Lesnar up with some nobody or a subpar fighter (which he would not have agreed to anyway) there would be a bunch of posts about how he got someone who was too easy for him when he would have beat the crap out of them. (Kind of like his first MMA fight.)


 
Yep.


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## rutherford (Feb 4, 2008)

Brock Lesnar: $250,000
Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira: $200,000
Tim Sylvia: $100,000
Frank Mir: $80,000
Nate Marquardt: $52,000
Ricardo Almeida: $40,000
Tyson Griffin: $36,000
Jeremy Horn: $25,000
Chris Lytle: $24,000
Rob Emerson: $16,000
Marvin Eastman: $14,000
Tim Boetsch: $12,000
Terry Martin: $12,000
Gleison Tibau: $11,000
David Heath: $6,000
Keita Nakamura: $5,000
Rob Yundt: $5,000
Kyle Bradley: $4,000

Brock Lesnar gets paid well.  :eye-popping:

Ricardo Almeida looked really excellent.  I'm glad he's back and fighting under a 6 fight contract.  But he hasn't fought in 4 years, yet he pulled that kind of contract and an opponent from the bottom of the pay scale. Guess he's easing his way back into the division? Or will there be a title fight his next time out? You never know with the UFC.


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## Odin (Feb 5, 2008)

ChadWarner said:


> I think the match was somewhat controversial. Mir was getting beat on then the point was taken away and they were stood back up. What I saw was Mir turn his head to avoid facial contact, I think the point and warning were premature. Might have turned out different if it was not for that, Lesnar had Mir controlled and was pounding on Mirs head... But on Mirs behalf he set Lesnar up very well with two armbar attempts and then the leg lock.


 
Yep your right there, since when is there a stand up due to strikes to the back of the head?!? From what i know only a verbal warning is issued, Frank mir was steam rolled straight away it was obvious that Mir could not handle Brocks power ( not o mention his actually control on the ground was not that bad ) the fact of the matter was though that Mir caught him with a leg lock, its actually a well known weakness of wreastlers i was with Rogan when he called the sub by leg lock before the fight.

He did well though i was impressed.


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## masherdong (Feb 5, 2008)

I give kudos to Frank Mir.  He stood in there and took the beating that Brock was giving to him.  I also think that it may have ended differently if they didnt stand back up.  Brock will be a contender once he learns more ground techniques to go along with his ground and pound.

Also, I guess Kurt Angle was taking notes on how to do the knee lock to go with his ankle lock.  lol


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## terryl965 (Feb 5, 2008)

Brock needs alot of ring polish before he can really be a top contender, his ground game is wreek at best and once he fully understands how the game is played he might be OK. Notice I said Might Be.


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## funnytiger (Feb 5, 2008)

terryl965 said:


> Brock needs alot of ring polish before he can really be a top contender, his ground game is wreek at best and once he fully understands how the game is played he might be OK. Notice I said Might Be.



Lol, Terry this is like the 3rd post you've made saying this. I think a majority of the people here just didn't see the same fight you did buddy! lol

Brock was explosive and showed that he IS going to be a contender not "might be".

All in good fun, buddy. It's not like we get anything out of this if he does or doesn't become an MMA phenom!


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## Andrew Green (Feb 5, 2008)

rutherford said:


> Brock Lesnar: $250,000
> Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira: $200,000
> Tim Sylvia: $100,000
> Frank Mir: $80,000



This, right here, is why we don't get to see Randy Couture fight anymore.  Two former UFC Heavyweight Champions, and each of the guys that is new to the UFC is getting paid more then them combined.

Lesnar takes the largest cheque of the night, and it's his second MMA fight ever, and he got beat in a minute and a half. 

My opinion of the fight, he needs refinement.  He came out blazing, but even after 90 seconds he looked like he was slowing down.  During the post fights Mir looked a lot fresher then Lesnar who looked pretty spent, I don't think he could have kept a pace anywhere near what he tried to set for 3 rounds.  He hit mirror a lot, but not many of them where really damaging, just short quick shots.  Mir fought the fight well, he weathered the storm, and finished fairly quickly, with what was a rather loose knee bar, I think most MMA vets would have been able to get out of that.

Lesnar might be able to become a top tier fighter, but he needs some experience first, and he needs to round off his skills a little more.  He's not there yet. 

And when a guy comes in for his  first UFC fight, with a 1-0 record, and gets paid more for losing in 90 seconds then the 2 former champions get combined, it's really not any wonder that some of the guys that have been in the UFC for a while are getting annoyed.  Nog won the belt, is a former Pride champion and still got less then Lesnar.  I think any one of those 3 should be a little annoyed with the way contracts where done up.

Randy Couture, a hall of famer, and probably the most decorated fighter the UFC has had, with a huge following was only getting 250,000 for winning the HW belt, and then defending it.  After seeing things like this, where a guy walks in with no real MMA record, and gets paid as much for losing in under 2 minutes as he does, hard to say he was wrong for walking away.  Might not have been about the money, but that's pretty insulting to him IMO.


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## MattJ (Feb 5, 2008)

I have to admit, I thought Frank would get wasted by Brock, and was very happy to see otherwise. Frank is still a world-class BJJ guy.

I bet Frank and Tim are waiting outside Dana's office with baseball bats! LOL.


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## thetruth (Feb 6, 2008)

I'd be pissed if I was Nog.  I guess it's business though.  You pay those who draw the crowds, not the best fighters.  Having said that, I don't think those pay days will last if he keeps losing.  It was a tough bout for him and I think with some training he will be tough.  Mir even said he went for a leg lock because Brock's arms and neck are so huge. That gives him a huge advantage if guys of Mir's quality are hesitant to mess with his arms and neck.  His arms and neck are of the same diameter as my thigh.

Cheers
Sam:asian:


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## Kenpojujitsu3 (Feb 6, 2008)

Andrew Green said:


> This, right here, is why we don't get to see Randy Couture fight anymore. Two former UFC Heavyweight Champions, and each of the guys that is new to the UFC is getting paid more then them combined.
> 
> Lesnar takes the largest cheque of the night, and it's his second MMA fight ever, and he got beat in a minute and a half.
> 
> ...


 
Right on Andrew. Right on!


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## funnytiger (Feb 7, 2008)

Interview with Steve Mazzagatti and his reffing for the fight.

http://mmajunkie.com/2008/02/05/ref...s-lesnar-mir-fight-an-mmajunkiecom-interview/


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## Andrew Green (Feb 7, 2008)

funnytiger said:


> Interview with Steve Mazzagatti and his reffing for the fight.
> 
> http://mmajunkie.com/2008/02/05/ref...s-lesnar-mir-fight-an-mmajunkiecom-interview/




While the warning can't be heard, watching the fight again it is pretty much how Mazzagatti describes it.

Mir is tucked in, Lesnar lands a few blows to the back of the head, I assume this is where the warning was, forcing Mir to give up that position, some legal shots go in, he tucks back in, then same thing.  Some shots to the back of the head, Mir comes out and Mazzagatti steps in.

Good call.

These also weren't close hits where he was getting warned to be careful and watch the back of the head, these where direct strikes to the back of the head which where effecting the fight.
[dmv]http://www.dailymotion.com/swf/x49fuc[/dmv]


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## funnytiger (Feb 7, 2008)

I'm sorry Andrew. I watched it again and I just don't see it. I do see the 1 shot that actually landed on the back of his head, but there were not "a few" shots that landed on the back of Mir's head *that I can be seen in the video you posted.* 

I just don't think it was a good call on Mazzagatti's part.

Based on the comments from the MMAJunkies article I posted it seems there is a 50/50 split with people who thought it was a good call and those who didn't.

Wasn't the first and certainly won't be the last, right? lol


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## Andrew Green (Feb 7, 2008)

Right around 4:08 there are 3 shots, then again at 4:11, he opens up, then he tucks back in and lands there again around 4:11, which is the one that Mazagatti broke them apart on.  The slow motion doesn't show the first 3.


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## funnytiger (Feb 7, 2008)

Andrew Green said:


> Right around 4:08 there are 3 shots, then again at 4:11, he opens up, then he tucks back in and lands there again around 4:11, which is the one that Mazagatti broke them apart on.  The slow motion doesn't show the first 3.



I see the 3 quick strikes, but I only see 1 of them landing on the back of the head. I do see the one at 4:11 though. I still think Mazzagatti was over enthusiastic with his call and again I have NEVER seen a ref 1) call a foul that fast without a few warnings first (not just 1 "supposed" warning) and 2) stand them up and make such a grand stand about it.

*shrug* But like I said earlier, its not like we can do anything about it now. lol


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## Andrew Green (Feb 7, 2008)

funnytiger said:


> I see the 3 quick strikes, but I only see 1 of them landing on the back of the head. I do see the one at 4:11 though. I still think Mazzagatti was over enthusiastic with his call and again I have NEVER seen a ref 1) call a foul that fast without a few warnings first (not just 1 "supposed" warning) and 2) stand them up and make such a grand stand about it.
> 
> *shrug* But like I said earlier, its not like we can do anything about it now. lol



Fighters know the rules going in, and the ref has to make split second decisions, I think he made the right call.

The other thing to remember is that the ref should be looking at the effect of the foul as well.  Another common example is fence grabbing.  If someone is grabbing the fence, they get warned and told to let go.  If they grab the fence and prevent a takedown by doing so that is different then doing so in a way that doesn't effect the fight and they should be penalized for it.

In this case the strikes to the back of the head forced Mir to give up his position, which effected the fight.

Mazagatti also makes the point that the illegal target is fairly specific, but fighters will get cautioned when they start getting near it, or it looks like they could hit it by what they are doing unintentionally.  This is different then a official warning, but is probably the most common thing said by the ref around that rule.


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## funnytiger (Feb 7, 2008)

Andrew Green said:


> Fighters know the rules going in, and the ref has to make split second decisions, I think he made the right call.
> 
> The other thing to remember is that the ref should be looking at the effect of the foul as well.  Another common example is fence grabbing.  If someone is grabbing the fence, they get warned and told to let go.  If they grab the fence and prevent a takedown by doing so that is different then doing so in a way that doesn't effect the fight and they should be penalized for it.
> 
> ...



I respect your position on the fight Andrew. I just don't agree with it. I still think Mazzagatti's call was wrong, but what are we going to do? Argue about it until we're blue in the face? lol Nah. Just agree to disagree. Like I said, looking at message boards on other sites as well, it seems a pretty even 50/50 split with fans. 

I get the impression from your posts Andrew that you aren't a fan of Lesnar joining the UFC so I think it does play a "small" role in our viewpoints. I was ecstatic when I heard Lesnar was going to do MMA and I almost pissed myself when I found out he was coming to the UFC. I always thought he was too good for the WWE and I'm glad he made the move.

Just from reading the many many posts on various websites about this fight, it seems like those who liked Lesnar thought the call was bad, those who didn't (or don't) think otherwise.

- ft


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## Andrew Green (Feb 7, 2008)

I think he's a good fighter, and has the potential to be a great one.  I'm glad he made the jump.  I'm not as impressed that he is making more per fight with next to no MMA experience then guys that have been fighting in the UFC and hold championship belts.

Lesnar is a amazing athlete and wrestler, but he is not yet a top tier MMA fighter, and he shouldn't be getting paid more to fight then the top tier fighters, it's unfair to them to have had to work their way up, then have another guy jump in at the top with a better contract only to loose less then 2 minutes into the first round.


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## funnytiger (Feb 7, 2008)

Andrew Green said:


> I think he's a good fighter, and has the potential to be a great one.  I'm glad he made the jump.  I'm not as impressed that he is making more per fight with next to no MMA experience then guys that have been fighting in the UFC and hold championship belts.
> 
> Lesnar is a amazing athlete and wrestler, but he is not yet a top tier MMA fighter, and he shouldn't be getting paid more to fight then the top tier fighters, it's unfair to them to have had to work their way up, then have another guy jump in at the top with a better contract only to loose less then 2 minutes into the first round.



I thought we were talking about the fight? Hm... 

Seems to me you have a problem with the money the UFC is giving him, which is not a blame that should be placed solely on him. The UFC signed the checks.

- ft

EDIT: I agree with you, btw. He should not be making ANYWHERE near the same amount of money as veteran fighters like Mir. Let him work his way up like everyone else.


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## Andrew Green (Feb 7, 2008)

funnytiger said:


> I thought we were talking about the fight? Hm...
> 
> Seems to me you have a problem with the money the UFC is giving him, which is not a blame that should be placed solely on him. The UFC signed the checks.
> 
> - ft



I assumed when you said you had the impression I wasn't a fan of his being in the UFC you where referring to my little rant about his being paid as much as Randy Couture was making per fight, Couture the most decorated fighter they had and with a long history with the UFC, Lesnar a brand new fighter that got paid as much for losing his first fight as Couture got for winning the HW belt.

As for the point deduction, in the end it's a really a non-issue, after the stand up they ended up right back down and the fight didn't go to a decision anyways.


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## funnytiger (Feb 7, 2008)

Andrew Green said:


> I assumed when you said you had the impression I wasn't a fan of his being in the UFC you where referring to my little rant about his being paid as much as Randy Couture was making per fight, Couture the most decorated fighter they had and with a long history with the UFC, Lesnar a brand new fighter that got paid as much for losing his first fight as Couture got for winning the HW belt.



No, I was just speaking in general. But I agree with you.



> As for the point deduction, in the end it's a really a non-issue, after the stand up they ended up right back down and the fight didn't go to a decision anyways.



This is where I have problem with the whole thing. Its not about the point deduction and never was. It is about the stand up. If anyone thinks that did not benefit Mir than their crazy. It gave Mir time to breathe, and gather his wits. If the onslaught had continued without the break and stand up it would have ended in a GnP. My opinion. Maybe Mir would have managed some other kind of submission, although he admitted that trying to put an armbar on him was too difficult because of his bulk so... hmm...

But its a non-issue at this point because the fights over. 

- ft


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## MJS (Feb 7, 2008)

I actually just saw the fight today.  Now, I didn't count the hits to the back of the head, but it is a violation, so I can understand the stoppage.  I give Brock credit.  He came in strong and was having some luck with the G&P.  However, he reminded me of all of the other wrestlers when they first entered.  Good takedowns, good G&P, but zero submissions.  With some work, he'll be a greater force.

I do agree with Andrew though.  First off, the guy only has 1 MMA fight under his belt.  Anyone know who it was against, when and where it was?  Personally, I can't justify paying him more and putting him with a more well known fighter, seeing that he is so new to the game.


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## Andrew Green (Feb 8, 2008)

I'm not as much against putting him against Frank Mir.  He is an accomplished fighter, if not a accomplished MMA fighter.  Mir was not a bad choice, Mir can handle himself under pressure, and wasn't going to beat him to a bloody mess if things got ugly, it would be a submission win.  Both guys are amazing grapplers, so it's not a terrible match up.

However, this:

Brock Lesnar: $250,000 for losing
Frank Mir: $80,000 for winning

Is something I do object too, those numbers should be flipped.

Lesnar's first fight was in K-1 against this guy: http://www.sherdog.com/fightfinder/fightfinder.asp?fighterID=12561

WHo he beat quickly by submission from strikes.


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## MJS (Feb 8, 2008)

Andrew Green said:


> I'm not as much against putting him against Frank Mir. He is an accomplished fighter, if not a accomplished MMA fighter. Mir was not a bad choice, Mir can handle himself under pressure, and wasn't going to beat him to a bloody mess if things got ugly, it would be a submission win. Both guys are amazing grapplers, so it's not a terrible match up.
> 
> However, this:
> 
> ...


 
Well, like I said, the striking can certainly be effective.   As for the cash...I still stand by my post.  1 fight IMO, should'nt give you a shot at a) that kind of money and b) a shot at someone who's been fighting alot longer and has made a big name for himself.  Thats like someone getting a title shot against Randy right off the bat.  I'm sorry, but you need to climb the ladder and fight the lesser known guys first, building your way up.


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## The Last Legionary (Feb 8, 2008)

Might be a matter of use his name while he sticks around. Lesnar has a rep for bailing when he runs into trouble. Of course he should have worked his way up like most of the guys, not gotten the celeb push.

Me, I'm still laughing at his tat of the penis-sword. :rofl:


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## The Elemental (Feb 10, 2008)

Brock has potential, all he needs to do is achieve it.


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## bluekey88 (Feb 11, 2008)

MJS said:


> I actually just saw the fight today. Now, I didn't count the hits to the back of the head, but it is a violation, so I can understand the stoppage. I give Brock credit. He came in strong and was having some luck with the G&P. However, he reminded me of all of the other wrestlers when they first entered. Good takedowns, good G&P, but zero submissions. With some work, he'll be a greater force.
> 
> I do agree with Andrew though. First off, the guy only has 1 MMA fight under his belt. Anyone know who it was against, when and where it was? Personally, I can't justify paying him more and putting him with a more well known fighter, seeing that he is so new to the game.


 

I don't remember the name of the guy...but I remmeber seeing the fight on Showtime's Elite XC promotion last year (not sure if it was called elte xc at that time...it was their second MMA show, about a month or two after the  Shamrock v. Gracie fight).  Brock rolled over the guy like he was nothing.  The guy simply couldn't handle his sheer size and power.

That's all I remember.

Peace,
Erik


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## bluekey88 (Feb 12, 2008)

bluekey88 said:


> I don't remember the name of the guy...but I remmeber seeing the fight on Showtime's Elite XC promotion last year (not sure if it was called elte xc at that time...it was their second MMA show, about a month or two after the Shamrock v. Gracie fight). Brock rolled over the guy like he was nothing. The guy simply couldn't handle his sheer size and power.
> 
> That's all I remember.
> 
> ...


 
Correction, I just saw on my DVR last night that the fight may have been on the WEC against Carlos Condit.

Peace,
Erik


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## Andrew Green (Feb 12, 2008)

bluekey88 said:


> Correction, I just saw on my DVR last night that the fight may have been on the WEC against Carlos Condit.
> 
> Peace,
> Erik



no, it was *Min Soo "Mr. Shark" Kim* in K-1.


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## Perpetual White Belt (Feb 12, 2008)

bluekey88 said:


> Correction, I just saw on my DVR last night that the fight may have been on the WEC against Carlos Condit.
> 
> Peace,
> Erik


 
That was Brock Larson not Brock Lesner.

~Brock


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## Selfcritical (Feb 13, 2008)

Andrew Green said:


> I'm not as much against putting him against Frank Mir.  He is an accomplished fighter, if not a accomplished MMA fighter.  Mir was not a bad choice, Mir can handle himself under pressure, and wasn't going to beat him to a bloody mess if things got ugly, it would be a submission win.  Both guys are amazing grapplers, so it's not a terrible match up.
> 
> However, this:
> 
> ...



Brock wasn't paid too much, Mir and other top heavweights are paid too little. Brock brings a collegiate wrestling background on par with matt hughes, and garunteed ticket sales to the table. Him getting paid as much as he does here makes sense(especially since it's a paycut)


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## bluekey88 (Feb 13, 2008)

Perpetual White Belt said:


> That was Brock Larson not Brock Lesner.
> 
> ~Brock


 
Ah, that explains it.  Excsue me while I remove my shoe from my mouth. 

Peace,
Erik


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## MJS (Feb 13, 2008)

bluekey88 said:


> I don't remember the name of the guy...but I remmeber seeing the fight on Showtime's Elite XC promotion last year (not sure if it was called elte xc at that time...it was their second MMA show, about a month or two after the Shamrock v. Gracie fight). Brock rolled over the guy like he was nothing. The guy simply couldn't handle his sheer size and power.
> 
> That's all I remember.
> 
> ...


 
Thanks for the info.

Mike


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## MJS (Feb 13, 2008)

Selfcritical said:


> Brock wasn't paid too much, Mir and other top heavweights are paid too little. Brock brings a collegiate wrestling background on par with matt hughes, and garunteed ticket sales to the table. Him getting paid as much as he does here makes sense(especially since it's a paycut)


 
While he does bring a wrestling background to the table, I still think that paying him more than double what Mir got paid is not right.  I don't know, but IMO, someone who is more active in MMA and has more fights under his belt deserves to get more than someone who has 1 fight.  Now, after entering more events, winning, etc., then sure, I can justify that price.


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## Kwan Jang (Feb 13, 2008)

There are a lot of fighters that will not fight for Dana and Co. with the UFC anymore. Despite the name recognition of the UFC to the general public, guys like Frank Shamrock are probably making at least as much (and probably a lot more) fighting for Strikeforce where he will get some repect and not be treated like cattle. Fedor decided not to go the UFC route and now Randy is gone. 

It's not like the money is not there to pay the fighters. As much as Dana and the UFC have built the sport and their branding of it, if they keep up their ways, they will be letting the other smaller promoters get a foothold that they might never have gotten otherwise. Scott Coker with Strikeforce (all ESPN-related broadcasts of martial arts were his) and the IFL guys are sharp individuals with a LOT of broadcast and promotional experience and connections. Of course, this may be JUST what the sport needs to take the next step in it's growth and evolution from a business standpoint.


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