# MMA, UFC Rule Changes to be Implemented



## Buka (Aug 4, 2016)

Interesting.

MMA rules committee to discuss 12-to-6 elbows, instant replay next

ABC body approves changes to MMA scoring criteria, new rules in landslide vote


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## Paul_D (Aug 5, 2016)

_"The new scoring language underscores that effective striking and grappling are the top tier for judging rounds".  _Does this mean we will see even more extended perios of men laying on top of each other?  On no, that bores the lviing **** out of me.  I don't mind grappling, but theee is an awful lot of people just doing the minimum to avoid beign stood up by the ref, because  they know that being on top wins them the round.

I'd bring in a rule that stood peopel up after 30 seconds on the ground no matter what.  But that's just me.


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## Danny T (Aug 5, 2016)

Yeah... Lay and Pray is going Away!


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## Charlemagne (Aug 5, 2016)

Bring back striking from the bottom, etc. and I will be happier.  


Paul_D said:


> I'd bring in a rule that stood peopel up after 30 seconds on the ground no matter what.  But that's just me.



Then it really wouldn't be MMA anymore.  They've already done plenty of things to favor striking over grappling.  If the rules become so contrived that they prevent people from working for position and playing defense against strikes while on the ground then we might as well get rid of it all together.


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## Kickboxer101 (Aug 5, 2016)

Paul_D said:


> _"The new scoring language underscores that effective striking and grappling are the top tier for judging rounds".  _Does this mean we will see even more extended perios of men laying on top of each other?  On no, that bores the lviing **** out of me.  I don't mind grappling, but theee is an awful lot of people just doing the minimum to avoid beign stood up by the ref, because  they know that being on top wins them the round.
> 
> I'd bring in a rule that stood peopel up after 30 seconds on the ground no matter what.  But that's just me.


Yeah no that'd be stupid maybe 30 seconds if no ones punching or trying to pass or trying to submit then stand but what if a guys got an arm bar and close to finishing it youd be happy if they stood them up while he's trying to finish a submission? That'd be just stupid and unfair. If you don't like the ground fighting don't watch mma watch boxing and kickboxing. Yeah to me ground fighting isn't as interesting as striking but it is a part of the game and it is a skill that needs to be learnt otherwise people wouldn't bother training full mma if they knew no matter what they'd be stood up after 30 seconds?

You say you don't mind grappling but you're saying you essentially want to get rid of it


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## Charlemagne (Aug 5, 2016)

Kickboxer101 said:


> YYou say you don't mind grappling but you're saying you essentially want to get rid of it



Exactly.  You would end up with a combination of Kickboxing and Judo (with crappier take downs).  People would just turtle up and ride out the 30 seconds and grappling would basically be removed from the sport.


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## Paul_D (Aug 5, 2016)

Kickboxer101 said:


> If you don't like the ground fighting don't watch mma watch boxing and kickboxing.


I didn't say I don't like grappling, what I said was I don't like when one man lays on top of another and does as little as possible in an attempt to get to the end of the round beacsue he knows he will win that round for beign on top.



Kickboxer101 said:


> but you're saying you essentially want to get rid of it


Strawman argument, that isn't what I am saying at all._
_


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## Kickboxer101 (Aug 5, 2016)

Paul_D said:


> I didn't say I don't like grappling, what I said was I don't like when one man lays on top of another and does as little as possible in an attempt to get to the end of the round beacsue he knows he will win that round for beign on top.
> 
> 
> Strawman argument, that isn't what I am saying at all.


If you were to make it automatic stand ups every 30 seconds then yeah that is what your saying because most times especially in ufc it's 2 high level guys who are probably brown or black belt they won't be able to submit them in 30 seconds because they're both skilled and know how to defend. Also it's the guy on the bottoms job to get up to his feet or submit him from the bottom as well which does happen (Anderson silva v chael sonnen)


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## Charlemagne (Aug 5, 2016)

Paul_D said:


> I didn't say I don't like grappling, what I said was I don't like when one man lays on top of another and does as little as possible in an attempt to get to the end of the round beacsue he knows he will win that round for beign on top.



Get rid of rounds and scoring.  Problem solved!  LOL   

I know that isn't going to happen.


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## Charlemagne (Aug 5, 2016)

Kickboxer101 said:


> Also it's the guy on the bottoms job to get up to his feet or submit him from the bottom as well which does happen (Anderson silva v chael sonnen)



Didn't they eliminate some of the striking from the guard as well, which if brought back, could make the ground more interesting (and dangerous)?


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## Kickboxer101 (Aug 5, 2016)

Charlemagne said:


> Didn't they eliminate some of the striking from the guard as well, which if brought back, could make the ground more interesting (and dangerous)?


No not as far as I know you constantly see fighters from top throwing elbows and punches. You can't do socker kicks or knees or kicks to the head of a grounded opponent but anything else you can


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## Charlemagne (Aug 5, 2016)

Kickboxer101 said:


> No not as far as I know you constantly see fighters from top throwing elbows and punches. You can't do socker kicks or knees or kicks to the head of a grounded opponent but anything else you can



I was referring to being on the bottom.  In the first UFC's, you saw Royce kicking and throwing punches while pulling guard.  Sorry for the confusion.


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## Danny T (Aug 5, 2016)

Paul_D said:


> _"The new scoring language underscores that effective striking and grappling are the top tier for judging rounds".  _Does this mean we will see even more extended perios of men laying on top of each other?  On no, that bores the lviing **** out of me.  I don't mind grappling, but theee is an awful lot of people just doing the minimum to avoid beign stood up by the ref, because  they know that being on top wins them the round.
> 
> I'd bring in a rule that stood peopel up after 30 seconds on the ground no matter what.  But that's just me.





Charlemagne said:


> Bring back striking from the bottom, etc. and I will be happier.
> 
> 
> Then it really wouldn't be MMA anymore.  They've already done plenty of things to favor striking over grappling.  If the rules become so contrived that they prevent people from working for position and playing defense against strikes while on the ground then we might as well get rid of it all together.



The new rule going into effect.

Effective Striking/Grappling:

-  “Effective Striking is judged by determining the impact or damage of legal strikes landed by a contestant solely based upon the results of such strikes. Effective Grappling is assessed by the successful executions and an impactful/damaging result coming from: takedown(s), submission attempt (s), achieving advantageous position(s) and reversal(s).”

"Top and bottom position fighters are assessed more on the impactful/damaging result of their actions*, more so than their position*."

The thing here is position isn't going to win the round if all you do is hold position and the other person is punching and work whether from the bottom or the top.


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## Danny T (Aug 5, 2016)

Charlemagne said:


> I was referring to being on the bottom.  In the first UFC's, you saw Royce kicking and throwing punches while pulling guard.  Sorry for the confusion.


You can punch, kick, from the guard. Can't knee or kick the head of a downed opponent and no heel kicks to the kidneys or strikes to the back of the head.


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## drop bear (Aug 5, 2016)

Yeah. People ear slap from the guard a bit. And horizontal elbows. You need space to throw from the bottom. Which gives him space to throw from the top.

And there is almost nobody who wants to purposely engage in that trade off.


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## Charlemagne (Aug 5, 2016)

Danny T said:


> ...and no heel kicks to the kidneys or strikes to the back of the head.



That's what I am referring to.  Those strikes were used in the early UFC's to great effect.


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## Kickboxer101 (Aug 6, 2016)

Charlemagne said:


> That's what I am referring to.  Those strikes were used in the early UFC's to great effect.


Not at all when Gracie did it did they ever have any effect at all?


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## Charlemagne (Aug 6, 2016)

Kickboxer101 said:


> Not at all when Gracie did it did they ever have any effect at all?



Royce used them to help get out of a knee bar attempt by Sakuraba.  They sure as heck make someone not want to just lay on top of you while you have them in guard.  It eventually forces them to move, which creates an opening.  Heck, just a couple of years ago, heel kicks of a similar nature ended a fight between John Tuck and Jake Lindsey, albeit they were to the stomach rather than the kidney.


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## Buka (Aug 6, 2016)

And on a related note in rule changes...

(Male) Olympic Boxers Will No Longer Wear Ridiculous and Dangerous Headgear | FIGHTLAND


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## Kickboxer101 (Aug 6, 2016)

Charlemagne said:


> Royce used them to help get out of a knee bar attempt by Sakuraba.  They sure as heck make someone not want to just lay on top of you while you have them in guard.  It eventually forces them to move, which creates an opening.  Heck, just a couple of years ago, heel kicks of a similar nature ended a fight between John Tuck and Jake Lindsey, albeit they were to the stomach rather than the kidney.


Well your allowed to kick to the stomach in mma you can socker kick someone in the stomach if you want (rich franklin vs Edwin dewees


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## Charlemagne (Aug 6, 2016)

Kickboxer101 said:


> Well your allowed to kick to the stomach in mma you can socker kick someone in the stomach if you want (rich franklin vs Edwin dewees



Yes you are.


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## Buka (Aug 6, 2016)

Charlemagne said:


> I was referring to being on the bottom.  In the first UFC's, you saw Royce kicking and throwing punches while pulling guard.  Sorry for the confusion.



Gave me a flashback of a young Rickson fighting Zulu.


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## Buka (Aug 6, 2016)

I find this fascinating as well...

Mixed Martial Arts could feature in 2024 Olympics


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## JP3 (Aug 6, 2016)

To "fix" the lay and pray... defense I suppose we can call it, you could simply remove any advantage in scoring for position. The advantage would have to come from taking that advantage and turning it into something, whether that be some effect on the opponent by striking from above, or by using the dominant top-down position to take a better position to work for a submission of some kind.

Judo has had rules for decades to stand people up when they're just down there rolling around and nobody's gaining an advantage. Problem is, lots of competitive judo players enjoy stand-up more than groundwork (and to be fair, vice-versa also exists), and it is possible to get a ref who is literally too bored to watch someone work from half-guard to full-guard, through a sweep into a armbar or choke technique. They don't know what they are watching while it's being done, and they stop time and stand the players up WAY too early.

If you had competent ground work people in the referee spot, who know what they are watching to see for the judges to score --- that could possibly work. Then, the requirement would shift into seeking advantage = scoring rather than just position = scoring.


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## Tony Dismukes (Aug 6, 2016)

Danny T said:


> You can punch, kick, from the guard. Can't knee or kick the head of a downed opponent and no heel kicks to the kidneys or strikes to the back of the head.


The new rules will allow the heel kicks to the kidneys. That will no longer be a foul.


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## Tez3 (Aug 6, 2016)

This 'new' rules will only apply in places where there is a governing body such as the US, while in the UK and Europe a lot of promotions do often use the rules put together by the UFC there is no authority that says what rules have to be used. Often it's a negotiation between fighters and the promoters as to what is allowed/not allowed.


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## Danny T (Aug 6, 2016)

Tony Dismukes said:


> The new rules will allow the heel kicks to the kidneys. That will no longer be a foul.


You are correct..I was referring to present rules of kicking and punching in the guard.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Aug 6, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> This 'new' rules will only apply in places where there is a governing body such as the US, while in the UK and Europe a lot of promotions do often use the rules put together by the UFC there is no authority that says what rules have to be used. Often it's a negotiation between fighters and the promoters as to what is allowed/not allowed.


Hence the title of the thread "MMA, UFC rule changes to be implemented". I don't think anyone assumed this would directly apply outside the UFC.


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## Danny T (Aug 6, 2016)

kempodisciple said:


> Hence the title of the thread "MMA, UFC rule changes to be implemented". I don't think anyone assumed this would directly apply outside the UFC.


"MMA Unified Rules" affects most all MMA events in almost every state in the U.S. regardless if it is a UFC event or a small local sanctioned event.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Aug 6, 2016)

Danny T said:


> "MMA Unified Rules" affects most all MMA events in almost every state in the U.S. regardless if it is a UFC event or a small local sanctioned event.


Fair enough. Still, neither the article or the title are suggesting that it would hold outside of the US.


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## Danny T (Aug 6, 2016)

kempodisciple said:


> Fair enough. Still, neither the article or the title are suggesting that it would hold outside of the US.


True, there are promotions outside the US don't adhere to the _Unified Rules of Mixed Martial Arts, _even though they have become the de facto rules for mixed martial arts competition in North America and as well have been adopted by most of the major promotions and jurisdictions worldwide_.
_
It doesn't mean they will all adopt the new rules however I believe there is a strong probability most will.


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## Tez3 (Aug 7, 2016)

kempodisciple said:


> Hence the title of the thread "MMA, UFC rule changes to be implemented". I don't think anyone assumed this would directly apply outside the UFC.



Well pardon me for having the audacity to post.


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## Charlemagne (Aug 24, 2016)

This is a great video all around, but towards the end, Javier Vazquez talks about some rule changes that have taken place to favor the striker versus the grappler and also some things which could be done to make fights more interesting from a stylistic perspective.  I personally like his ideas, and would probably watch MMA if they were adopted.  As it stands, while I respect the athleticism and the guts it takes to get in there, I don't enjoy watching it at all.


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## Steve (Aug 24, 2016)

Danny T said:


> True, there are promotions outside the US don't adhere to the _Unified Rules of Mixed Martial Arts, _even though they have become the de facto rules for mixed martial arts competition in North America and as well have been adopted by most of the major promotions and jurisdictions worldwide_.
> _
> It doesn't mean they will all adopt the new rules however I believe there is a strong probability most will.


There are still hold outs that do things more along the lines of the old Pride FC ruleset, where soccer kicks are legal to the head, knees and kicks to downed opponents are legal, and they may even go with the old 10 minute/5 minute rounds.   

But I think you're right that the unified rules are the standard, and promotions that deviate from them do so specifically to stand apart in some way.  Or because they don't worry about sanctioning at all, as Tez3 correctly pointed out.


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## Tez3 (Aug 25, 2016)

kempodisciple said:


> Hence the title of the thread "MMA, UFC rule changes to be implemented". I don't think anyone assumed this would directly apply outside the UFC.



The UFC doesn't have to apply any rules does it when outside the US, they could conceivably if they wanted to have rules for different countries..............
The title of the thread is misleading, only the UFC is changing their rules not MMA as a whole.


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