# Cellphones and self-defense.



## arnisador (Oct 28, 2013)

[h=1]Smartphone saved gas station clerk from robber's bullet, cops say  
[/h] [h=2]Phone blocks bullet in Hess station robbery. [/h]


> After two clerks couldn't get the safe open, the gunman fled, but  fired a single round that hit a clerk in his abdomen, police said.
> 
> 
> However, his smartphone blocked the bullet. The clerk suffered only minor injuries, police said.



Great luck. More generally, I always advise that anyone interested in carrying a weapon for self-defense make sure that a cellphone is one of those tools being carried. You can call the cops or at least threaten to do so, be traced if taken, etc.; even used as a fist load. It's solid strategy. Being an occasional shield is just a bonus. Beyond that, if one extends self-defense to general protection of one's well-being, being able to call for help if injured or suffering a heart attack or the like is more likely than fighting off an assailant for many people. (In fact, I truly believe that the best 'self-defense' is to get a good, well-paying job and reap all the myriad benefits of health and safety that accrue to the upper middle-class and higher.) Everyone who is thinking of getting a firearm, knife, pepper spray, or the like should surely have a cell phone too.

I was put in mind of this a few days ago when I read this story:
[h=1]5-year-old Texas boy accidentally kills himself with napping babysitter's gun[/h]


> Ringhardt, who lives with the boy's family, left her semiautomatic  .40-caliber handgun on a coffee table when she went into a bedroom to  take a nap Monday afternoon. When she woke up, she couldn't immediately  find the boy, identified as John Read, according to the sheriff's  office. She eventually discovered him dead in the living room, it said.
> 
> Because the home has no telephone, Ringhardt carried John and a  6-month-old child, whom she was also watching and who wasn't identified,  about a block to his grandparents' home to call 911



Leaving aside the tragedy, here is someone who has a handgun, presumably for self-defense, that she carries with her and keep loaded and ready; but she did not have a cell phone, nor did the house in which she lived have a landline. She could have been there alone and started choking and needed to call 911 before passing out. From another story on this accidental shooting: "Ringhardt told investigators that she was carrying a handgun on her  person in the home that day because she was scared being at home alone." Whether her fear was based on actual threats or not, having a cell phone in addition to the firearm would surely have represented a significant increase in her overall safety. (Again, I leave aside the tragedy that brought this to public attention to focus on the importance of having a cell phone.) That the whole family had a home and yet did not obtain a cheap, pay-in-advance, no-contract, just-for-emergencies cell phone, by their own resources or public aid, says to me that they did not understand how to protect their health and safety beyond the ability to engage in a firefight. That's bad planning.

If you're spending $1000/year on martial arts lessons for the self-defense aspect and don't have a cell phone, get one and find a martial arts school that's cheaper if need be. You can die just as easily of hypothermia if your car breaks down...and if you think a self-defense encounter is imminent, you can call for police or at least call to let family know where you are first.


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## MJS (Oct 29, 2013)

Nice thread!  Certainly a good thing to have.  And like you said, even if it was something basic, that you can buy in the big box stores, where you have to buy the card to get the minutes...in a bad situation, that could save your life.  The downsides of course are the connection and location when you call 911.  There have been times when the person calling is just in a bad area, and the phone call keeps getting dropped.  Also unlike calling from a landline, when you call 911, the exact location does not come up.  However, the lat./long. numbers do come up, which can be used to get a general location.  We've used that to locate lost hikers.  Of course, the cell phone provider can also 'ping' the phone, providing it's on, to get a general location of the caller.  

But in the end, even if the person has no clue where they are, which is the case many times, at least they're able to make an initial call to start the process of getting help.


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## SENC-33 (Oct 29, 2013)

Something else you can do with a phone (better if the phone is old or has a warranty).....

Lightly toss the phone to an attacker. Natural reaction is to catch something thrown to you and what he wont expect is the strike following behind it as his brain is engaged on the object being tossed


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## Fritz (Oct 29, 2013)

Interesting thread. I'm a bit surprised it stopped a bullet- was the case bullet resistant or something? Are there even cases like that out on the market?

I agree that the SD vale is in a few pre-programmed numbers- police, fire, etc.

Other thoughts would be using it as a LED flashlight, but I doubt the flash gets bright enough, or as a personal alam to get attention, kind of like a panic button, but again does the average SM speaker go that loud?

Guess I should check the app store.


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## ballen0351 (Oct 29, 2013)

Fritz said:


> Interesting thread. I'm a bit surprised it stopped a bullet- was the case bullet resistant or something? Are there even cases like that out on the market?


Depending on caliber, range, and type of ammo I've seen just a leather coat stop bullets.  its not like TV where bullets go through brick walls and still kill people.  I once say a fat guy get shot in the leg and the bullet was stopped by his leg.  It was just lodged in his pants cargo pocket.  



Another good thing to do is activate your kids phones GPS 
Capability we have found may missing and runaway teens using the parents computers and GPS tracking information.  Contrary to popular belief your local law enforcement can't just track your phone with out court orders or a real emergency and your teen seeking out doesn't qualify so.  As a parent learn to use the GPS tracking feature on your kids phone.  And know your passwords.  We had a 15 year old girl take her moms car the other night and run away.  She had her IPhone which was on her moms account but her mom didn't know how to sign into her own account to check the GPS.


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## ballen0351 (Oct 29, 2013)

SENC-33 said:


> Something else you can do with a phone (better if the phone is old or has a warranty).....
> 
> Lightly toss the phone to an attacker. Natural reaction is to catch something thrown to you and what he wont expect is the strike following behind it as his brain is engaged on the object being tossed


Not so much.  Try it next time your in class.  Not a phone they are expensive but have someone engage you and toss something to them.  If they are fixed on you chances are they won't react a all,  at most they may bat it down or flinch.  But nobody that's about to attack you is going to stop their thought process and play catch.  This is one of those self defense myths that have been around for years.  When someones mind is focused and hell bent on getting you they don't care about a little phone getting tossed to them


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## Xue Sheng (Oct 29, 2013)

Tiffany Chen used a Cell phone for self defense once....a guy jumped out to grab her while she was on the phone and she punched with the hand she had the cell phone in and knocked him down....twice


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## SENC-33 (Oct 30, 2013)

ballen0351 said:


> Not so much.  Try it next time your in class.  Not a phone they are expensive but have someone engage you and toss something to them.  If they are fixed on you chances are they won't react a all,  at most they may bat it down or flinch.  But nobody that's about to attack you is going to stop their thought process and play catch.  This is one of those self defense myths that have been around for years.  When someones mind is focused and hell bent on getting you they don't care about a little phone getting tossed to them



I do it with new people I train all the time. You think every person that means harm to you is a crazed lunatic that can't have his brain disengaged for a split second? Even a flinch or move to bat the object down can be enough for a pre-emptive strike


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## Tgace (Oct 30, 2013)

SENC-33 said:


> I do it with new people I train all the time. You think every person that means harm to you is a crazed lunatic that can't have his brain disengaged for a split second? Even a flinch or move to bat the object down can be enough for a pre-emptive strike



What someone in a martial arts class will do and what some mope on the street will do can be two different things...hell some people won't even flinch away from gunfire.

Sent from my SCH-I405 using Tapatalk 2


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## SENC-33 (Oct 30, 2013)

Tgace said:


> What someone in a martial arts class will do and what some mope on the street will do can be two different things...hell some people won't even flinch away from gunfire.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I405 using Tapatalk 2



No doubt......But how would tossing something at an attacker hurt your efforts? If he doesn't flinch are you any worse off?


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## arnisador (Oct 30, 2013)

It may be worth a try in some cases but it surely can't be counted on to have an effect. I'd hurl it in his face if possible if I were going that route.


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## SENC-33 (Oct 30, 2013)

arnisador said:


> It may be worth a try in some cases but it surely can't be counted on to have an effect. I'd hurl it in his face if possible if I were going that route.



The only thing you can count on if you HAVE to defend yourself is hitting first and hitting hard


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## ballen0351 (Oct 30, 2013)

SENC-33 said:


> No doubt......But how would tossing something at an attacker hurt your efforts? If he doesn't flinch are you any worse off?



Because its one more thing your trying to do in a stressful situation.  You have to dig into your pockets find yoyr phone and then toss it.  And you threw your only line to help should you loose and are laying there or should you be able to run.  

You wanna teach it more power too you.  Keep the myth going.


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## ballen0351 (Oct 30, 2013)

Tgace said:


> What someone in a martial arts class will do and what some mope on the street will do can be two different things...hell some people won't even flinch away from gunfire.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I405 using Tapatalk 2



Yep. Seen it with my own eyes more then once.


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## SENC-33 (Oct 30, 2013)

ballen0351 said:


> Because its one more thing your trying to do in a stressful situation.  You have to dig into your pockets find yoyr phone and then toss it.  And you threw your only line to help should you loose and are laying there or should you be able to run.
> 
> You wanna teach it more power too you.  Keep the myth going.



Why is it that when you suggest something on one of these forums that somebody always seems to take it as your gospel? Running is the best answer but I don't know.....maybe you have your phone in your freaking hand and some ******* wants to mug you. You say here have this and toss it to him. Maybe he flinches and you strike him....maybe he doesn't, pulls out a gun and shoots you in the head. Do I suggest you fumble around in your pocket to dig your freaking phone out? Get real! 

Sometimes you have to improvise and if the tiniest of distractions could possibly help you to defend yourself why not?


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## ballen0351 (Oct 30, 2013)

SENC-33 said:


> Why is it that when you suggest something on one of these forums that somebody always seems to take it as your gospel? Running is the best answer but I don't know.....maybe you have your phone in your freaking hand and some ******* wants to mug you. You say here have this and toss it to him. Maybe he flinches and you strike him....maybe he doesn't, pulls out a gun and shoots you in the head. Do I suggest you fumble around in your pocket to dig your freaking phone out? Get real!
> 
> Sometimes you have to improvise and if the tiniest of distractions could possibly help you to defend yourself why not?



Didn't say anything about gospel. Just said its safer to keep your phone then toss it.  You wanna toss something toss keys or your wallet but your phone may be needed after the encounter.  As a cop I hear all these self defense myths all the time not saying you personally don't know what your talking about but it's normally some wanna be trying to impress the cop with His self defense expertise.  Some of the other famous ones I hear " don't yell for help yell fire because nobody will help you".


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## Mauthos (Oct 31, 2013)

Talking about these 'myths' one I have heard, but never having had the chance to try, is that if someone is completely focussed on fighting you (preparing to - blood rushing to extremities, clenching fists etc) if you ask them a simple question such as 'do you know the score from the football last night?' it forces their brain to reengage to think about the question and can diffuse their aggression, killing their focus and giving you the time to either get away or strike first.

Personally, not being a copper, I have not been in situations where someone is gearing up to fight me, normally I manage to avoid these situations and other times the guy has just instantly swung for me.  I am not sure that if I am truly focussed on fighting someone a simple question would cause me to lose that focus but I would be interested to know your opinion with the experience you have.


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## SENC-33 (Oct 31, 2013)

Mauthos said:


> Talking about these 'myths' one I have heard, but never having had the chance to try, is that if someone is completely focussed on fighting you (preparing to - blood rushing to extremities, clenching fists etc) if you ask them a simple question such as 'do you know the score from the football last night?' it forces their brain to reengage to think about the question and can diffuse their aggression, killing their focus and giving you the time to either get away or strike first.
> 
> Personally, not being a copper, I have not been in situations where someone is gearing up to fight me, normally I manage to avoid these situations and other times the guy has just instantly swung for me.  I am not sure that if I am truly focussed on fighting someone a simple question would cause me to lose that focus but I would be interested to know your opinion with the experience you have.



It can work is some situations. I always set up my index in a manner that doesn't look threatning but prepares me to block and/or strike immediately. There are triggers you can look for that signals he is about to throw a sucker punch but if those triggers are less obvious, engaging him (talking) sets you up for a strike. If he is moving his jaw (running his mouth) it's easier to knock him out.


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## arnisador (Oct 31, 2013)

*Nothing Short of a Miracle  Cellphone Charger Saves Sheriff Deputy from Bullet*




> The Los Angeles County Sheriffs Department said in a press release that a cellphone charger in the pocket of a deputy deflected a bullet headed for her thigh Tuesday, during a shootout that left a suspect dead in a neighborhood on the citys south side.
> 
> The odds are insurmountable  a half-inch-wide bullet from a .40 caliber handgun striking a cellphone charger no more than 2 inches across.



This still isn't the reason I think people should carry a cell phone, of course, but it's still a fortuitous happening!


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## jks9199 (Oct 31, 2013)

Mauthos said:


> Talking about these 'myths' one I have heard, but never having had the chance to try, is that if someone is completely focussed on fighting you (preparing to - blood rushing to extremities, clenching fists etc) if you ask them a simple question such as 'do you know the score from the football last night?' it forces their brain to reengage to think about the question and can diffuse their aggression, killing their focus and giving you the time to either get away or strike first.
> 
> Personally, not being a copper, I have not been in situations where someone is gearing up to fight me, normally I manage to avoid these situations and other times the guy has just instantly swung for me.  I am not sure that if I am truly focussed on fighting someone a simple question would cause me to lose that focus but I would be interested to know your opinion with the experience you have.



If they're really pissed --  you won't make them think.  Blood's been pulled out of the brain to other places; as Dave Grossman says, the puppy is in charge.  You can sometimes distract someone as they ramp up -- but it's an iffy proposition.  The question has to be something that really gets their attention, as well.  It's like using a total non sequitor to throw someone off -- it has to be far enough afield to cause a "WTF?" response.


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## Mauthos (Oct 31, 2013)

Thanks for the reply jks, what you said makes a lot of sense to me and basically the way I thought about it too.  Thanks again.


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## Zero (Nov 11, 2013)

jks9199 said:


> If they're really pissed --  you won't make them think.  Blood's been pulled out of the brain to other places; as Dave Grossman says, the puppy is in charge.  You can sometimes distract someone as they ramp up -- but it's an iffy proposition.  The question has to be something that really gets their attention, as well.  It's like using a total non sequitor to throw someone off -- it has to be far enough afield to cause a "WTF?" response.


So something like, "Holly **** dude, the UFOs are coming for us right NOW - we gotta GET OUTA HERE!!" And then scream in a high pitched wailing manner. ? Would that do it?


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## Zero (Nov 11, 2013)

arnisador said:


> *&#8216;Nothing Short of a Miracle&#8217; &#8211; Cellphone Charger Saves Sheriff Deputy from Bullet*
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Apparently in Minnesota they are looking at developing a flack jacket made from second hand cell phones which is both cheaper and more dependable than the standard kevlar. The bonus is you are never more than a call away from home.


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