# WENG CHUN FORMS - Spinal Disc and Knee Damage?



## Tong Chuang (Apr 24, 2014)

Greetings!

I noticed that Sifu Maria Grothe of the Weng Chun Family (G.M. Andreas Hoffman Lineage) is saying she no longer uses the excessive body motions (flexing waist, etc.) in her forms (e.g. Saam Pai Fat ) and practice as it has resulted in her having Spinal Disc and Knee damage. She says after speaking to other Wing Chan Masters in Asia that they are not used in other Shaolin Wing Chun Kuen.







She discusses this in a Youtube video:
Interview about Bodywork in Weng Chun Sifu M.Grothe - YouTube

I have seen some videos of G.M Hoffman and Sifu Maria in action and the movements are quite exaggerated compared to the Tang Yick Style of the Lo Family Weng Chun. Although they generate a lot of power are they safe to practise?
G.M. Wai Yan seemed to be still moving ok in old age.


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## Marnetmar (Apr 24, 2014)

They_ could_ be safe if she's the only case, but I have been a bit suspicious about the waist movements since they aren't used in other Weng Chun lineages.


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## yak sao (Apr 24, 2014)

I had always heard that was the original reason for wearing a sash. It should be wrapped fairly tightly around the midsection to help support the back and abs during forms practice.


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## Tong Chuang (Apr 24, 2014)

yak sao said:


> I had always heard that was the original reason for wearing a sash. It should be wrapped fairly tightly around the midsection to help support the back and abs during forms practice.



Could be, although I heard the silk sash was used to stop 'chi' leakage from the 'Man' Dantien (Solar plexus)


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## geezer (Apr 24, 2014)

Tong Chuang said:


> Could be, although I heard the silk sash was used to stop 'chi' leakage from the 'Man' Dantien (Solar plexus)



Chi leakage?!? Sounds messy.

Anyway I can't comment on _Weng_ Chun. I have both knee and disk problems (from old injuries) that bother me if I'm not careful with my Wing Chun (NVTO Ving Tsun). But if my position is correct, I find practicing VT to be theraputic.


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## Tong Chuang (Apr 24, 2014)

geezer said:


> Chi leakage?!? Sounds messy.
> 
> Anyway I can't comment on _Weng_ Chun. I have both knee and disk problems (from old injuries) that bother me if I'm not careful with my Wing Chun (NVTO Ving Tsun). But if my position is correct, I find practicing VT to be theraputic.



Yes, I too find practicing the forms theraputic, especially when performed Yin style,  I couldn't go  a week without performing them. I do get the odd knee pain twinge (mostly in the right knee - could be to do with driving), but mostly I'm ok luckily.
I can recommend Glucosamine Sulphate with Chondroitin, and Hemp Seed Oil internally as a joint enhancer. Lingzhi mushroom extract is also good.


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## r'n'r (Apr 28, 2014)

Any videos of her form?

My guess is, it's probably either poor form execution biomechanically wise or insufficent strenght foundation, or both.


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## Tong Chuang (Apr 28, 2014)

r'n'r said:


> Any videos of her form?
> 
> My guess is, it's probably either poor form execution biomechanically wise or insufficent strenght foundation, or both.



There's  a YouTube vid of her before she split from Hoffman:




Weng Chun inspiration from Maria - YouTube

and she has her own channel now called Dancing Leopard:

Dancingleopard - YouTube


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## mook jong man (Apr 28, 2014)

Looking at that video , I can sort of see how all that waist flexing probably would damage the spine.

But the main culprit I think would be the high speed pivoting without having the spine completely vertical , and the stresses on the spine would even be more amplified when she is practicing pole techniques.

I remember reading a piece by the head of our lineage and he basically said that pivoting at high speed such as that is required in Biu Tze form is like a machine rotating rapidly and if something is out of alignment , eg not completely vertical then the machine will eventually fail.

In other words if your pivoting and posture is not top notch by the time you start to learn the Biu Tze then you are going to damage your back when pivoting at high speed.


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## r'n'r (May 1, 2014)

Hmm, hard to tell. One thing I see that could potentially damage the lower back are the quick forward-backward snap movements(look at 2:49 in the video).

I also assume that this lineage does not tuck the tail?


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