# Swiss Review Of Vadim Starov



## Greg Smith

Last Year I Had The Opportunity To Take Part In A 2 Week Seminar Of Sistema Kadochnikov Held In Tver, For 6 Hours Each Day I Trained With The *russian Military & Non-military Personnel Directly On The Military Base *as Well As In The Surrounding Forest. The Seminar Was A Very Enriching Experience Not Only From A Martial Arts Perspective But From A Human One As Well.

The Instructors Were *top-notch* In Their Field And Showed Us The Various Techniques In A Very Professional And Efficient Manner. We Learned About *biomechanics,levers, And Angles Of Attack, The Importance Of Breathing And Relaxation, Roll,perform Locks And Throws, Toss Knives, Avoid Strikes With & Without Weapons,hit And Kick Opponents. We Also Learnt How To Load & Unload An Ak-74 And Safely Jumped(several Times) From A Vehicle Moving At 10,20,30,and 40 Km/hour On Asphalt.*

At The Same Time All The Of The Participants And Instructors Showed Kindness And Generosity Towards Me And The 3 Other Foreigners Who Attended The Seminar. Training Took Place In A Spirit Of Openness,warmth, And Hospitality. I Hope To Train Again 1 Day With The People That I Met There.

*the Director Of The Centre, Mr Vadim Starov* Made Extra Special Efforts To Accommodate Me During My Stay. He Found A Russian Family With Whom I Could Stay, Arranged To Have Someone Pick Me Up And Take Me To /from Training And I Was Unable To Understand What Was Being Said In Russian, He Found Very Capable People To Interpret Into English For Me.

I Would Like To Thank Mr Starov And All Of The Instructors At The *international Center Of Russian Martial Arts* For The Efforts To *promote Sistema Kadochnikov* In Russia And In Other Countries.

Randall Jones
Fribourg, Switzerland


----------



## Greg Smith

" Interesting-I heard quite a different view yesterday, at least in the terms of Presentation. Anyone else go? Cheers. Fuzzybear

Yes, I went along too; I found it very interesting, SHOCKING, and a significant information OVERLOAD. No one can Claim to have " the" Systema, only their own systema, and Vadim's Systema differs from what we been used to IN SOME MAJOR WAYS.

It's recognizable as having some common roots to VLADIMIR'S EARLY VIDEOS, but it's a lot less freestyle, Vadim likes to DEMONSTRATE A PRINCIPLE THROUGH REPEATED APPLICATIONS, LIKE A LECTURE, AND IT'S GOT BASIC MOVEMENT PRINCIPLES SO HE CAN SAY "NO PROBLEM!!

If students work with a different take on systema to his own system. He's VERY PASSIONATE ABOUT PASSING ON INFORMATION, and can be very brutal and severe during demonstrations. I think we felt a bit more like naughty soldiers getting lectured and disciplined than we're used to.

People who have commented that systema is so playful they must be missing something will probably find a certain sense of satisfaction in Vadim Starov's Branch of the system.

I've found that an old back injury has been much better after Vadim gave me some beatings and stompings over the weekend, and it would be very unfair if I didn't mention this because it indicated that *HE REALLY KNOWS WHAT HE'S DOING.*

On Sunday evening, he told me that the students over hers are beautifu, very warm and friendly and asked how big certain problems with crime and violent crime wre over here. There was too much over the weekend to write about just now, but I'll be happy to answer questions about it.

Best Wishes, Kingsley"


Dear Vadim, thank you for the seminar that you did recently in the U K. I really enjoyed them and I learned a lot. Your company was good and shared a lot of Knowledge. Please send details and Prices of the seminars in Russia that you mentioned for the next July. I would also like to buy more of your videos, I got 3 at the seminar and the English DVD. Thanks again.
Sincerely, John Dovey

I have noticed that Nick Di Paola is hosting a course on the Kadochnikov System. Is any of the seminar regulars intending on taking a look. I am trying to work out if there will be any good company at the event if I decide to go.
Paul Genge/Russian Martial Arts Northwest

I went to the seminar last week. Met Vadim Starov(and stayed in the same hotel as him-which was very bad for my liver!!). Excellent 3 days-which he went over from the basics*-STARTING FROM WARM-UPS, TO ROLLING, TO DEALING WITH PUNCHES,STICKS,KNIVES,GUNS,ETC.*

VADIM IS DEFINITELY* A WALKING ENCYLOPEDIA OF SYSTMA*-ALL THE QUESTIONS WERE ANSWERED IN GREAT, GREAT DETAIL AND VERY OPEN(AND HONEST!). He also showed us HOW TO RECOVER FROM A MAJOR HANGOVER USING POINTS OF THE BODY TO PRODUCING A SHARP AND DEADLY INSTRUMENT JUST FROM A CIGARETTE!

Rob P

Note:
These are just a few of the many testimonals about Vadim Starov's 1st U K Seminar in Nov 04'


----------



## Paul Genge

Sorry if I was interested in learning the Kadoshnikov system I would go to the source and visit him in Russia.  

I will be at the next Vlad seminar in the UK and am visiting Michael in a couple of days for the Moscow seminar if you want to meet up at a seminar.  Otherwise our clubs door is always open.

Paul Genge
http://www.russianmartialart.org.uk


----------



## Greg Smith

*say Wasn't A Stealth Ad For A Vasiliev U K Seminar??*


----------



## NYCRonin

Greg Smith said:
			
		

> *say Wasn't A Stealth Ad For A Vasiliev U K Seminar??*



Seemed more like an open invite....devoid of insults to any other methodology.

If I had the money...I would check out Kadoshnikov from the source also. I have heard nothing but good out of Siberia - which was the last location I heard he was living in. On his history and experience alone...it would be a fascinating life-experience, da?


----------



## Pervaz

Hey Greg,

"...I went to the seminar last week. Met Vadim Starov(and stayed in the same hotel as him-which was very bad for my liver!!). Excellent 3 days-which he went over from the basics*-STARTING FROM WARM-UPS, TO ROLLING, TO DEALING WITH PUNCHES,STICKS,KNIVES,GUNS,ETC.*

 VADIM IS DEFINITELY* A WALKING ENCYLOPEDIA OF SYSTMA*-ALL THE QUESTIONS WERE ANSWERED IN GREAT, GREAT DETAIL AND VERY OPEN(AND HONEST!). He also showed us HOW TO RECOVER FROM A MAJOR HANGOVER USING POINTS OF THE BODY TO PRODUCING A SHARP AND DEADLY INSTRUMENT JUST FROM A CIGARETTE!.."

That was my quote (not RobPs) .. and I stick by that statement.  As well as a walking encylopedia Vadim is one of the most open and transparent guys around.. 

Talk to you later in NY

P


----------



## Greg Smith

In The City Of Genoa Italy, The International Krav Maga Presented Vadim Starov Of The International Center Of Russian Style (kadochnikov Sistema).
Vadim Taught The Following Subjects:
1) Psychology 2) Power Engineering 3) Special Medicine 4) Kadochnikov Sistema 5) Opening -up Spetsnaz 6) Training Of The Security Guards 7) Situational Training: Office, Car, Restricted Space.

Further, Vadim Also Taught A Group Of Genoa Policemen.


----------



## kage110

Greg Smith said:
			
		

> Further, Vadim Also Taught A Group Of Genoa Policemen.


 
Proving what, exactly? No offence to the LEOs who frequent this forum but many such people are not of any outstanding level in martial arts and their judgement about what is 'good' to learn is not any better than a lot of civilians.

Does teaching a 'Group of Genoa Policemen' mean that Mr Starov was officially contracted by the Genoa Police or did a group of people - who just happened to be serving LEOs - have an informal training session with him?

I have shown a policeman or two a few tricks and have rolled with some UK special forces types - does this mean that I can claim to 'Teach self-defence techniques to Law Enforcement Officials and Special Forces Operatives'? Don't think so!

Please note I am making no comment at all about Mr Starov or his ability and knowledge - I had never head of him before this ruckus kicked off. I just take issue with the claims that are being bandied about.

Anyway, What Is All This Use Of Capitalisation All About? Did Nobody Teach You How To Write English Properly?


----------



## Greg Smith

Alexey Kadochnikov has a history of eccentricity, of getting into " fights" with his Researchers( these men,largely UNCREDITED-who have contributed greatly to the evolution of the Kadochnikov Sistema), the result of these Tirades were similiar to a Stalin Purging!

Please go to the following sites that were written by Matthew Powell and they are listed under various encyclopedia services on the internet.
a) www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Kadochnikov's-Systema 
b) www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Victor Zavgorodnij
And you all can read the evidence for yourselves.

The 1st most notable casualty was Alexander Retuinski: Ross Founder, the 2nd was Victor Zavgorodnij and in that time, and let me quote this: " In 2001, a decision was made that A. Kadochnikov would leave the school and Zavgorodnij *ALONG WITH OTHER LEAD RESEARCHERS WOULD CREATE A NEW SCHOOL TO TEACH A NEW SYSTEM NAMED SYSTEM OF PERSONAL SAFETY. THIS SYSTEM WAS PRIMARILY BASED ON KADOCHNIKOV SYSTEM BUT THE INSTRUCTION METHODS WERE DIFFERENT, IT ALSO DIFFERENTIALTED BETWEEN SELF DEFENSE AND SURVIVIAL PRESERVATION IN EMERGENCY SITUATIONS.WHICH THE KADOCHNIKOV SYSTEM DID NOT.*
*AMONG ZAVGORODNIJ'S STUDENTS ARE DR.S SHVETS(KRASNODAR) AND MATT POWELL(AMERICA ).*

*IN THE 1ST CASE ALEXANDER RETUINSKI LEFT THE KRASNODAR SCHOOL AND IN THE 2ND CASE ALEXEY & SON LEFT THE KRASNODAR SCHOOL. TOGETHER WITH VADIM STAROV THEY ESTABLIHSED THE INTERNATIONAL CENTER IN TVER.*


----------



## Greg Smith

PAUL YOU CAN DENY IT ALL YOU WANT BUT THE FACT REMAINS. YOU POSTED ON THE FORUM AND YOU SHOULD REMEMBER WHAT FORUM YOU POSTED YOUR COMMENTS ON.

YOU POSTED ON OCT 13 04 AT 5:14 PM AND YOU REGISTERED ON THAT FORUM ON OCT 24 03

LIKE MOST OF YOU VASILIEV FOLK, YOU TRY TO BEFRIEND OTHER MARTIAL ARTIST BY 1ST PROCLAIMING HOW YOU'RE INTERESTED IN THAT OTHER STYLE. THEN AFTER A FLURRY OF SEVERAL EMAILS OR FORUM POSTINGS YOU EXTEND AN INVITATION TO COME TO 1 OF YOUR VASILIEV SCHOOLS OR SEMINAR.

YOU GUYS REMIND OF* JEHOVAH WITNESSES ON A SATURDAY AFTERNOON! DISTURBING THE ENJOYMENT OF OTHERS AND YOU DON'T TALK NO FOR AN ANSWER! :mp5: *


----------



## Greg Smith

post edited by me  sheldon Bedell  MT MOD

mr smith please read the rules of this forum befor posting again


----------



## Greg Smith

1st Thank you mr moderator and I hope that you chastised the Vasiliev guys as well ( though I don't think that you did or would)

2nd Jackal seems to endorse in having sexual relations with Underage girls, in his reply to my response of my experiences at the Ukraine Seminar. I think the cops should pay him a visit.

3rd Alex K I read your post and I agree with you 100%, my 1st exposure with Systema in person, was with the Vasiliev Seminar on 6-4-04 to 6-6-04 at Edgar's Seminar( by the way, Edgar does not lease that commerical space he sublet's it from the Chinese who run a Chinese Martial Art School there). Alek I am having a Los Angeles Kadochnikov Seminar featuring Vadim Starov and the detail are in the Seminar Page of this Forum. It is an 11 day event and will not suffer from any of the things you complained about re: Edgar teaching. I will have a Paid Translator there who is FLUENT IN BOTH RUSSIAN AND ENGLISH. I DO NOT KNOW IF YOU CAN CAN ATTEND OR IF YOU CAN ATTEND ALL 11 DAYS BUT IF YOU DO AND PASS THE EXAMINATION AT THE END OF THE 11 DAYS , YOU WILL HAVE THE RANK OF SPECIALIST 1ST CLASS WITH THE RIGHT TO TEACH. BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY YOU WILL HAVE SKILLS THAT WERE PRESENTED TO YOU IN A HIGHLY ORGANIZED MANNER, CLEARLY AND PRECISELY EXPLAINED.
Alek K go to www.kadochnikov.org/pforum and read 1st the rules esp the NEW RULES & ONE MORE THING. I am the Administrator and once you have joined the forum. Then you will be able to enter the site and I suggest that you go to the seminar section 1st ( send me a private message and I will discount your seminar fee), then go to Kadochnikov Systema section 2nd and read the Course Descriptions for each rank. Alex K it is up to you if you wish to teach after you finish the seminar. But what is of vital importance is that you will have learned very specific Physical Laws and Scientific Principles and how they are applied to hand 2 hand combat. Things that you can easily practice after the seminar. If you want to attend, not only will I give you a discount on the seminar fee but I will give you a discount on my hotel accommodation too. However I have no pull with the airlines.
Lastly, to the various Moderators. I am being singled out but as I said previously that I suspected that this Vasiliev controlled venue would apply the rules SELECTIVELY. This is your house and I will comply with your rules and I thought that JACKAL response espousing child porn would be excised but was not. I felt frustrated and you lack of oversight of his inappropriate comment upset me. I will comply and not behave as the Vasiliev Misfits have done on my Forum. I am Sorry that our views on this are not on the same page.


----------



## Greg Smith

"No matter how many times the wind blows, the mountain remains UNMOVED!"


----------



## Greg Smith

Good Morning Gentlemen:

When I 1st became a member I sent the Administrator an email explaining the Problems I was having with the Vasiliev people ie certain ones and I named names. I identified myself as an Administrator of the Kadochnikov.org's Forum.

When I made my 1st post I said nothing about the Vasiliev people whatsoever! The 1st Trash Talking response came from Sonny Puzikas and was followed by the others. So as far you Moderators jumping on me as causing all of the bad decorum on this section of the Forum, please look to your own ie NYC RONIN, along with the aforementioned.

I tried to keep it professional but it's self defense when I am attacked. They brought the Crap from my Forum to your forum and I did not bring it!
However, you already know this or should know this. Just look at the date and times of who posted what after my 1st post and you will see that I am 100% correct.
You should do your best to keep up your end and I can make the promise that from my end I will no longer bring up the Politics and when(and they will) bring up the Politics. I would like to see your Public Postings chasting them to behave.


----------



## NYCRonin

LOL - I am not a moderator here...and to receive an accusation of 'bad decorum' from you?

Is laughable.

And a waste of my time.

You will continue to dig with your spetz shovel....have a nice time.
What I mentioned about memory and first impressions, still stands.


----------



## RachelK

> 2nd Jackal seems to endorse in having sexual relations with Underage girls, in his reply to my response of my experiences at the Ukraine Seminar. I think the cops should pay him a visit.
> 3rd Alex K I read your post and I agree with you 100%, my 1st exposure with Systema in person, was with the Vasiliev Seminar on 6-4-04 to 6-6-04 at Edgar's Seminar( by the way, Edgar does not lease that commerical space he sublet's it from the Chinese who run a Chinese Martial Art School there).


I hate to join this fray but at the same time, I don't like to see such this kind of misinformation posted on the forum. The first remark about Jackal simply doesn't belong here. I'll leave the issue of whether or not its true to someone else, despite my strong feelings about it, I don't want to perpetrate the off-topic discussion. The moderator was kind enough to post a little refresher of the rules and one of those rules was "don't drag a conflict from somewhere else onto this forum." If you have a problem with Jackal, take it up with him, not us, and if the problem has nothing to do with Russian Martial Art, that's another reason it doesn't belong here. 
Secondly, Edgar does not sublet the space from "the Chinese"...the space is not owned by the People's Republic of China. You are misinformed about the details of their business, but what should it matter who owns or leases the space? What does that have to do with the training? Lots of clubs train at the local high school, church, or even in a public park. But I guess those wouldn't be good enough for you.
Also, on an unrelated note, while I appreciate the descriptions of the training, can you take it easy with the bold and the upper-case letters? Those are supposed to be for emphasis, and if every other word is emphasized, it loses all effect, and makes it very hard to read. I'm just giving you my opinion as a reader: use bold and caps sparingly.
Rachel


----------



## SonnyPuzikas

Greg Smith... I stated to you and Starov before- don't start the fight you are not willing to finish. Out of respect to MT staff I did not copied and pasted ALL of the drivel you had posted elsewhere- it would very clearly show the facts about yours and Starovs obsession with discrediting Vasiliev and Ryabko. On your very own forum you are advertising Starov seminar by telling half truths and all out lies about Vasiliev seminars. Staying out of others business??? Starov and what he has to offer clearly can not stand on its own merit, thus you are trying to advertise it by downtalking others, well established and respected people and systems, that through hard work over a long time have earned what they are enjoying now. 
Switch tactics you are trying to use in debating the issues are demonstrating number of facts. Readers will be able to figure it out. 
You called people alcoholics. You implied people are perverts. And you are claiming some self defense in this "debate"? 
Simple idiots are just that. You are more, Greg Smith. You are an idiotic moron without honor and with uncontrollable ego. Mt staff- sorry for the language, but I call'em as I see'em... Respect is earned commodity. Greg Smith earned few things in my eyes- strange desire to meet him face to face again is one of them, and respect is not.
Done with spending my time debating *"&#1075;&#1086;&#1085;&#1076;&#1086;&#1085;".*


----------



## Mark Jakabcsin

Greg Smith said:
			
		

> Alexey Kadochnikov has a history of eccentricity, of getting into " fights" with his Researchers( these men,largely UNCREDITED-who have contributed greatly to the evolution of the Kadochnikov Sistema), the result of these Tirades were similiar to a Stalin Purging!
> 
> Please go to the following sites that were written by Matthew Powell and they are listed under various encyclopedia services on the internet.
> a) www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Kadochnikov's-Systema
> b) www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Victor Zavgorodnij
> And you all can read the evidence for yourselves.
> 
> The 1st most notable casualty was Alexander Retuinski: Ross Founder, the 2nd was Victor Zavgorodnij and in that time, and let me quote this: " In 2001, a decision was made that A. Kadochnikov would leave the school and Zavgorodnij *ALONG WITH OTHER LEAD RESEARCHERS WOULD CREATE A NEW SCHOOL TO TEACH A NEW SYSTEM NAMED SYSTEM OF PERSONAL SAFETY. THIS SYSTEM WAS PRIMARILY BASED ON KADOCHNIKOV SYSTEM BUT THE INSTRUCTION METHODS WERE DIFFERENT, IT ALSO DIFFERENTIALTED BETWEEN SELF DEFENSE AND SURVIVIAL PRESERVATION IN EMERGENCY SITUATIONS.WHICH THE KADOCHNIKOV SYSTEM DID NOT.*
> *AMONG ZAVGORODNIJ'S STUDENTS ARE DR.S SHVETS(KRASNODAR) AND MATT POWELL(AMERICA ).*
> 
> *IN THE 1ST CASE ALEXANDER RETUINSKI LEFT THE KRASNODAR SCHOOL AND IN THE 2ND CASE ALEXEY & SON LEFT THE KRASNODAR SCHOOL. TOGETHER WITH VADIM STAROV THEY ESTABLIHSED THE INTERNATIONAL CENTER IN TVER.*


 
Greg,
So you and Starov admit that he is NOT officially affiliated with Kadochnikov. This makes it really very simple. Starov and yourself simply need to drop the Kadochnikov name and promote the Starov name. If he's not affiliated with Kadochinkov he shouldn't be using his name, it really is that simple. He uses his own name, stands on his own abilities and carves out his own nitch. End of story. 

I don't believe Alexander Retuinski and Victor Zavgorodnij have these issues. Correct me if I'm wrong but don't they use their own names and stand on their own ability? Perhaps those are examples Mr. Starov should consider. The fact that he isn't doing this when by your own admission he should be. This is most disappointing. Your opinions about VV, MR and AK really are not relevant to the issue that Starov should be promoting his OWN NAME and his OWN SYSTEM. (Notice the proper use of capital lettes above. Just a friendly hint.)

Take care and best of luck,

Mark J.


----------



## Klondike93

I think you guys need to quit feeding the troll, this guys a tool and your just getting sucked into it's trap.


----------



## NYCRonin

Agreed.
The chapter is closed, for me; Klondike93.

But..the RMA community will not soon forget this little exercise, here. Though Starov might have some content in the overall RMA world...his sycophant blew away a good chance for discussion. Just a simple name change = a chance for continued inquiry by a seeking person. I am sorry it took up so much of Bob Hubbards bandwidth alloted. Appologies extended.

Case closed.


----------



## SonnyPuzikas

Chuck- IMO this is a case of mistaken identity. Mr. Smith is not a troll. In some cases the facts about the issues, that may be fairly appearant to some, need to be presented to inform others, less involved. "Turn the other cheek" was not an option in this case, IMO. Vadim Starov is a con artist trying to sell something (via Greg SMith) that is not his to sell and is trying to do that at the expense of reputation established over long years of hard work by peole I respect.


----------



## milosmalic

Well, there are similarities. Lot of trollish behaviour, lepriconish grammar...


----------



## Bob Hubbard

Mr. Smith is no longer a member here. I hope we can move on from this issue.


----------



## Klondike93

I understand Sonny, but it did look like he was only interested in starting something rather than disscussion.

Thanks for taking care of that Mr. Hubbard.


----------

