# Defense Training Scenario



## tempus (Mar 2, 2008)

I know everyone was discussing striking in another thread, but his is a little different.

Me and five friends went to hooters to watch the UFC last night.  The place was packed.  Half way thru the fight there is a commontion behind us.  I jump up and turn around to see two big guys throwing as many wild punches as they can at each others face.  Some landed and the some did not.  It was eventually broken up and some people were thrown out.

This got me thinking.  Does anyone train to defend against a rapid fire of wild punches.  I know I do not.  Usually it is someone throws a punch, or at the most a right and then left, then I do a technique.  Never anything against a flurry of wild punches.

Just curious.

-Gary


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## charyuop (Mar 3, 2008)

Long reach punches, 1 at the time.
Jabs, 1 at the time.
Grabbing a wrist, 1 at the time.

What do they have in common? Don't know where you practice, but usually what they have in common is "do something or immediately will arrive the second strike".
If you analize what you saw at hooters (apart from cleavages) is not different from what you do in your training. Think yourself on the mat with your Senpai. You are practicing a Tsuki Kotegaeshi with you Nage. Senpai starts, but instead of going into Tenkan you punch him back. Of course he will punch back and there you will punch back again....here recreated the situation of the restaurant you saw.
Those people you saw didn't go for the center of the opponent trying to create an advantage for themself and control the opponent. They created more a situation like "I punch you and don't care what you gonna do, coz I can punch better". They had their only focus on the opponent's face, period!

Try to see your daily training in a 3D way, not on a flat line. Don't do like those who see Aikido in a demo and say "yea, but in real life who will grab your wrist".


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## morph4me (Mar 3, 2008)

For the most part we train to deal with the first attack, which precludes having to deal with the rest of the flurry. Even if your defense against the first attack isn't effective, you've moved your body, which means that the attacker has to readjust to acquire another target.


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## tempus (Mar 3, 2008)

I wish I would have seen how it started so I could analyze it.  It was kind of like tennis watching the fist fly and hit each other.  A lot of connects, but mostly arm punches, no power.

I can see what you mean.  Even if I blend into one, the force would be almost minimal.  Just have to keep training so it becomes instinctual to do.

-Gary


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## theletch1 (Mar 3, 2008)

You do have to train against multiple punches from time to time.  In your i-kyu line you'll remember the high/high and high/low attacks.  Sometimes the combo is pre-set when the attacker decides he's coming after you.   What you should really have taken away from the fight you saw was that the beautiful, boxer style, planted punches rarely exist in the "real" world.  The full tilt haymaker with tons of energy to play with are much more prevelant.

Now, to answer your initial question: yes, I do get the chance to play with flurries of fast punches.  Most of the time, though, that type of training is with my wife.  She and I will think of something really off the wall and try it out in the dojo before a class or at home.  Get yourself a woman who's just as skilled as you are, fall head over heels in love with her...and then beat the crap out of each other!  Ahh, true love.:wink2:


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## terryl965 (Mar 3, 2008)

We always assume that one punch and than counter before the barrage comes at you. Hopefully this is all ones need to do. Realisticly it is not you must be willing at times to take a couple to be able to stop the rest. It is a cold hard world we live in.


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## tempus (Mar 3, 2008)

Yes.  Very familar with the high\high and high\low combination.  I am usually the demo person throwing them since I fool around with a little boxing.  

On a side note which had worked well is that we have been doing the lines starting at Yon-Kyu, that way when you are doing your I-Kyu and Sho-dan lines the line is not a shock to the system.

My wife made it to San-Kyu and then got injured.  Eventually she will get back into it.  However, she still likes to practice muggers throw on me and shoulder throw, which is a technique she should not have, but picked it up very well.  She does muggers throw so well that the classes she does watch the Sensei makes her come out and do the technique on me.  The faster I throw, the harder I hit the mat.  On another side note, husband and wife fighting for a remote who both know basic wrist techniques, parries and locks gets very interesting.

I guess the worse scenario is you do not see flurry of punches the coming.


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## amir (Mar 4, 2008)

We have practiced and do practice against a chain of multiple punchs, though not very often. 
We practice much more on the first attack, and on two concecutive attacks. The idea is there should not be any difference between the 2nd attack and any concecutive attack, and only few attackers can create more then two strong concecutive attacks (according to my teacher while teching Karate  and to several other students who are karate \ other M.A. vetrans too).

Our experiance with mulitpe rapid attacks has shown that the same people who could face those and respond to the say 7th attack. Could also respond and finish the attack chain after the first attack, or second if one assumes surprise at first. Those same people also tend to move out of line so multiple fast attacks are extremely difficult to do.

One situation in which we sometimes get into an attack chain in training is during Randori (in our case - free play on both sides). If one of the people forgets to move out of line, the other will press him on and on, making the mistake obvious. This often happens with beginners and much more rarely with advanced students when lots of pressure is applied.

Amir


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## charyuop (Mar 4, 2008)

If you ever meet one of your dojo mate you can practice something. Just remember it is not a contest, nor a real fight. Avoid any tension/real confrontation, because that could lead to injuries. There is a couple of guys who posted a video on youtube of possible real situations and see if what they know is good for them or not.




 O Sensei's son himself made the same kinda video.





I know the first video was not rehearsed cos the also posted a video of the times the techniques didn't work. I can't say the same for the first Doshu's video.


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