# Michael Jackson Dead at 50



## Bill Mattocks (Jun 25, 2009)

Reports from the Los Angeles Times and TMZ say he suffered a cardiac arrest and was taken to the hospital not breathing.  I'm not posting this to the Hall of Remembrance because he wasn't a 'warrior' in any sense.  And since I don't wish to speak ill of the dead, I'll say that he was an amazing artist for quite some time.  I wasn't a huge fan, but he had some iconic songs that really affected music and music videos.


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## Twin Fist (Jun 25, 2009)

edited cuz someone will get a knot in thier shorts if i told the truth about how I feel abotu that................person


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## terryl965 (Jun 25, 2009)

:asian:


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## seasoned (Jun 25, 2009)

.


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## Bob Hubbard (Jun 25, 2009)

So come to the end one of the most troubled of souls. So much talent, yet so much pain.


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## Empty Hands (Jun 25, 2009)

It's nuts outside.  There are hundreds of people, dozens of news trucks and cameras, and 2-3 news choppers all hovering right outside my door.

Good thing I don't need to drive through all of it!


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## KenpoTex (Jun 25, 2009)

good riddance...


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## MA-Caver (Jun 25, 2009)

Bob Hubbard said:


> So come to the end one of the most troubled of souls. So much talent, yet so much pain.


Indeed incredible talent born of incredible pain and stress of being a huge child star and later *one of* the biggest pop stars in history. Yet his downward spiral was an incredible *odd*yssey, in of by itself. It's a shame he could not recover from it. Lost his home, his reputation, at least HALF of his fans. 
Like Elvis the man had my respect and admiration for the talent he held but like Elvis the man lost my respect and admiration when (they) chose un-natural means to deal with the stress of (their) fame.


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## seasoned (Jun 25, 2009)

I started a thread in the Hall of rememberance, because of all the people bashing, I felt would happen here, of the dead. Some over here can beat the crap out of this person, but the fact of the matter is, no matter what he did, or was acused of, he is dead. What ever reward or condemnation there is after life, he is totaly there. I am not advacating the man, but we are not here to bust on the dead, at least I hope not. Put your dot down, shut the ---- up, and go on.


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## Archangel M (Jun 25, 2009)

I don't know...I object to post mortem sainting of people. I despise it when dead gangbangers are shown on the news (the photo of them in gang rags flashing signs) with the whole "student".."loving father"..."was gonna be a doctor" crap being spouted; when "drug dealing gang member shot by other drug dealing gang member", would have been more to the point. Being dead doesnt change what you were in life and sometimes speaking ill of the dead is simply acknowledging the truth.


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## nelsonkari (Jun 25, 2009)

My friend in Illinois called me and told me that the commercial retailers in his area are already capitalizing on Jackson's death. Penny's is offering little boy's pants half off.


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## elder999 (Jun 25, 2009)

Ya know. The Jackson 5. _I hated 'em._

My sister Carol, who's gone on herself,though, _loved 'em._

Of course, this was like 1971-she was all of four, and I was 11, and they had that goddam Saturday morning cartoon. _I *really* hated that goddam cartoon._ :lol:

She got to watch it,though, 'cause my mom spoiled her,  and I missed out on Johnny Quest, or whatever, but this was about the time I was starting to get healthy, start formal martial arts training, and playing outside was on my mind more. Still resented the hell out of it, though-and *hated* all those Jacksons, especially Michael, who my little sister adored.....

Few years later-it's like 1975, and I'm home for spring break-it's around my sister's birthday, and I get dragged to _what?_ Goddam_ Jackson_ *friggin' Family *concert.

Can't say I had a blast-I was in the beginning of a pretty serious head-banging phase right then, with occasional forays into blues and jazz, and nights disco dancing (*to get chicks!*) and the Jackson's were just not my thing. I _was _entertained though-they were obviously talented, and put on a damn good show....

Years and years later, after Michael had gone solo, become the "King of Pop," dated Brooke Shields, married Lisa Marie Presley (I could just hear the *real* "King" spinning in his grave,"_Lisa Marie, Lisa Marie, why you gonna marry that funny lookin' colored boy? He looks like ET with a geri-curl!"_ :lol divorced Lisa Marie, gotten several shades lighter, gotten Diana Ross's nose, then another one, then another one,had the biggest selling album of all time, made millions, built a pedophiles's dream mansion, divorced Lisa Marie, married a brood mare to have his children, divorced the brood mare, been sued for allegedly diddling little boys, fled to Bahrain, and lost millions-after all that, my sister died, and I gave some of those old Jackson 5 songs a listen for her.

I brag a lot. Well, maybe not as much as I could, but I do. I'm a decent musician-I've been in bands, played professionally-ok, I nearly starved to death, but that's what youth is for, isn't it? Anyway, I'm a fair judge of music, and I had to admit-_that was a goddam *tight* band for a bunch of kids._ 

Of course, that's what came from a few session musicians sitting in on recordings from time to time...._and papa Joe's beating regularly them with an extension cord, until they *goddam* got it right_. 

We'll get to hear all of that again-how when he was 12 or so and they were on tour, his brothers tried to get-to *force*-him to have sex with girls, who were, of course, readily available. How his dad beat them, and how maybe some even weirder stuff went on there-and also how his childhood was stunted, and he never really got to have one. Most of us can never really understand the sheer isolation inherent in being a star of that magnitude:Elvis used to have to rent the whole bowling alley to go bowling in peace, Michael got Disneyworld to do the same......and built the Neverland Ranch, a place for a kid who never got to grow up. We'll never know for certain whether he molested boys, or simply was so stunted that the only people he could relate to were children. Either way, it was pretty unhealthy. He was a sad, sick and lonely man, who happened to be extremely talented. Poor bastard, _among all us poor bastards_. Hope he finds some peace-or gets the appropriate hell, whichever you choose to believe.


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## Andy Moynihan (Jun 25, 2009)

nelsonkari said:


> My friend in Illinois called me and told me that the commercial retailers in his area are already capitalizing on Jackson's death. Penny's is offering little boy's pants half off.


 

A child of four could've told you this is not the place, nor the time.


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## arnisador (Jun 25, 2009)

It wasn't to my musical tastes, but I recognized his talent.

I give him the benefit of the doubt as I do anyone on anything they weren't convicted of.

Certainly enough to make you rethink your desires for great fame and fortune.


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## MA-Caver (Jun 25, 2009)

elder999 said:


> Ya know. The Jackson 5. _I hated 'em._
> 
> My sister Carol, who's gone on herself,though, _loved 'em._
> 
> ...


Thanks for that Elder, as always a to the point post that says what needed to be said. 
I recall the J-5 phenomenon myself and yeah, while I really liked the songs (I am only 3 years younger than MJ himself) like ABC 123, I'll Be There, etc. I too hated that cartoon show. Hated the Osmonds cartoon show too. Thought both of them were dumb. Would've preferred watching the Harlem Globetrotters or Scooby Doo or *especially* Johnny Quest (which IMO still is the best kick *** cartoon of them all). 
When I grew up I dropped out of the pre-teen Jackson craze and got into Led-Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, Beatles and the like. 
Of his albums I only liked Off The Wall and Thriller and thought he looked his best during that period... even with the nose trim and jeri curl. The man could *dance* and he could *sing*! But when he started swelling his ego by dominating We Are The World (remember the solo vocal & video spot he got on the song and music video?) and ripped off then friend Paul McCartney for those two hit songs they made and bought the entire Beatles catalog out from under McCartney whose songs they rightfully are anyway!, the amout of respect I had for the artist diminished proportionally. Then came the weirdness. 
Later, as I saw it was a man trying to find himself as he was being re-written again and again. The fame that he had must've been phenominally crushing. 
His music began to suffer, after Thriller I just couldn't follow or enjoy his music anymore. Now his sister Janet on the other hand.... :fanboy:

Anyway, it's a tragic end to a tragic life where he stood on the top of the world and was admired and respected to a downward spiral of equally epic proportions. How will he be best remembered? Outstanding entertainer? Or bizarre (possible) pedophile?


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## Big Don (Jun 25, 2009)

You just can't be the Thriller album.
He patented shoes that locked into the stage so he could do the awesome leans.


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## MA-Caver (Jun 25, 2009)

http://omg.yahoo.com/news/michael-jackson-king-of-pop-dead-at-50/24346?nc

http://omg.yahoo.com/photos/remembering-michael/2238

http://omg.yahoo.com/videos/michael-jackson-dead-at-50/7949

http://omg.yahoo.com/videos/scandal-overshadowed-michael-jacksons-life/7950

http://new.music.yahoo.com/blogs/hiphopmediatraining/120653/rip-michael-jackson-the-greatest-of-all-time/


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## nelsonkari (Jun 25, 2009)

DearAndy,

I sorry if my heavy handed humour offended you. A child molestor is not high on my list of favorites even if they are exulted by the world of entertainment as the ultimate superstar.

The immense contribution that he made to the music world will be forever overshadowed by his what only can be described as deviant behavior with children. Ask the parents of any child who was enticed and molested by an adult how they fear about the excessive media cannonization of this troubled man.

I only hope that he repented for his evil deeds before he died.
May God have mercy on his soul.

Nelson Kari


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## Bob Hubbard (Jun 26, 2009)

AFAIK, Jackson was never found guilty of wrong doing. Settling isn't the same as admitting guilt.  Did I like him? Not really. Did I like his music? No. But, he always struck me more as someone to pity than condemn. His childhood was really messed up, hell, the whole family is pretty strange. I take no pleasure in his death.


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## Twin Fist (Jun 26, 2009)

nor do I, but OJ was never convicted either.So that doesnt move me much


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## suicide (Jun 26, 2009)

? 

what are your thoughts on it ...


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## MA-Caver (Jun 26, 2009)

Go to the Study of this forum and you will find a thread where you can comment on the passing of this individual.

It is requested that any negative comments be kept to a minimum. Not everyone liked him in the end but either way we feel that it is still disrespectful to speak ill of the dead. 

It was NEVER verified or proven if he had inappropriate relations with children. He was only accused. I would have no problem vilifying the man if there was uncontested proof of his alleged actions.


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## shesulsa (Jun 26, 2009)

I'm not posting in the study right now.  But I'll answer the question here and what happens to this thread, so be it.

I've learned that it's SOOOOO easy to look from the outside and make judgement calls. A coward could do it.  There's doubtful a single soul on this board who knows what this man did with every minute of his day.  Celebrity brings its joys, its evils. Many, many things have been said about Jackson, much good, much bad.  We can't really know what's real and what's not, only what courts have ruled and what we could speculate from settlement agreements.

He's gone and has now reached his judgement and I hope he will be forgiven.  Regardless of his personal troubles, the impact he had on music was enormous.

The word "genius" is overused often but when you really listen to what he was putting out *when* he was putting it out, the inspiration he instilled - not only in the field of music but dance as well - I can't think that word doesn't rest well on his head.

Lennon. Presley. Jackson. Three of the greatest.


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## Bruno@MT (Jun 26, 2009)

Twin Fist said:


> nor do I, but OJ was never convicted either.So that doesnt move me much



To quote Chris rock: If OJ had been a busdriver, he wouldn't be OJ now, he would be Orinthal the bus driving murderer...

Anyway, despite not being a fan I think 'Thriller' is still one of the best albums ever. As they said on the radio: may he find the rest now that he never found in life.


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## Andy Moynihan (Jun 26, 2009)

nelsonkari said:


> DearAndy,
> 
> I sorry if my heavy handed humour offended you. A child molestor is not high on my list of favorites even if they are exulted by the world of entertainment as the ultimate superstar.
> 
> ...


 
I would agree, *if* he had been convicted. He never was.

I give him the benefit of the doubt, as I would anyone who was never convicted. Especially during this particular time.


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## Archangel M (Jun 26, 2009)

Eh.."conviction" only holds weight in the legal world. I can believe what I want about a person "convicted" or not. The "innocent until proven guilty" thing is routinely brought into debate/conversation. It doesnt always apply there IMO...someone has already brought up OJ.


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## sgtmac_46 (Jun 26, 2009)

Like him or hate him, one thing is clear.........I've got little good to say about him, but I won't say anything bad............he that dies pays all debts.  What it does remind us of is our own mortality.....that thing that links every man.  We, too, shall one day die.



> "To be, or not to be: that is the question:
> Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
> The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,
> Or to take arms against a sea of troubles,
> ...


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## seasoned (Jun 26, 2009)

sgtmac_46 said:


> Like him or hate him, one thing is clear.........*I've got little good to say about him, but I won't say anything bad............*he that dies pays all debts. What it does remind us of is our own mortality.....that thing that links every man. *We, too, shall one day die*.


And in turn, perhaps, spend eternity with people we never would dream of hanging with here. My mother is 91 years old, and she would always say,"if you can't say something good about someone, then say nothing at all. If wisdom comes with age, then my mom's words ring true, and like wise, your words above remind me of her.


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## Twin Fist (Jun 26, 2009)

genius? without doubt

tortured genius? without doubt.


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## nelsonkari (Jun 26, 2009)

Dear Forum posters,

Read OJ's book "If I did it" and then tell me how important it is that someone be found guilty in court by a biased jury than to face righteous judgment by society and ultimately God. Unfortunately in Jackson's case his immense wealth enabled him to buy off a family rather than face a jury in the first publically known instances of suspected molestation.

There is no crime more depicable than the molestation of a child.

My mother also believed in not saying anything bad about a person. I wonder what she would have felt years later after her death to find out that a former scoutmaster attempted to molest her grand daughter. The perv ended up dying in person after a trial where over 30 witnesses testified to the horrific impact he had on their lives. I'm sure after the over the top adulation dies down the truth will come out on MJ.

Nelson


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## arnisador (Jun 26, 2009)

nelsonkari said:


> Read OJ's book "If I did it" and then tell me how important it is that someone be found guilty in court by a biased jury



People will do (and say) lots of things for money. I'd counter your reading suggestion with:
REASONABLE DOUBTS: The O.J. Simpson Case and the Criminal Justice System by Alan Dershowitz

That having been said, I'd certainly not invite O.J. Simpson into my house, but until the jury is shown to be biased or the like it's only right, in my opinion, to give the benefit of the doubt to someone who hasn't been found guilty.



> than to face righteous judgment by society and ultimately God.


The civil trial gave society some measure of payback, I suppose, leaving things pretty muddled. As to your belief that Odin might deny him entry to Valhalla for this...I dunno. Sounds like a risk he may have been willing to take.



> Unfortunately in Jackson's case his immense wealth enabled him to buy off a family rather than face a jury


Quite possibly, but people and companies settle for lots of reasons. I've known people who settled though they were in the right for exactly the reasons you suggest: Unpredictable outcomes from a legal system that doesn't always get it exactly right. He had a lot to lose, and so I can also see him making a decision not to risk it. So I don't know if he was guilty or not--there certainly was a lot of reason to suspect it, and again, I wouldn't have left my kids alone with him after all this came out--but I don't see how you could _know_ he was guilty.



> My mother also believed in not saying anything bad about a person.


A bit of an extreme but not bad advice overall--in particular, saying bad things you can't back up is poor form.


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## Sigung86 (Jun 26, 2009)

Love or hate him...

Great performer.  Suggested Crap as a human being in the general sense of the word and world.  He's paid for it now, and is well beyond anything any of us can feel, do, or say.


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## Brian King (Jun 26, 2009)

> Put your dot down, shut the ---- up, and go on.


 


> Go to the Study of this forum and you will find a thread where you can comment on the passing of this individual.
> 
> It is requested that any negative comments be kept to a minimum. Not everyone liked him in the end but either way we feel that it is still disrespectful to speak ill of the dead. 


 


> I'm not posting in the study right now. But I'll answer the question here and what happens to this thread, so be it.


&#12288;
&#12288;
Ummm this IS the study :idunno:
There is a thread in the hall for those who do wish to lionize the fellow as well as those who do not wish to speak ill of the now dead fellow to leave their dots and respects, but this thread is in the study and this is a discussion forum. I think here in the study people should be allowed to say what they think of the man, his talents and failings not withstanding. 

Myself, I do feel bad that his childhood was less than perfect but the man was 50 years old, long since time to quit blaming mom and dad for his own failures in my opinion. Was he guilty of molestation and child rape, not according to the courts, would I let any young member of my family be alone with himno. The man was a talented entertainer and many enjoyed his work yet he ruined his life and perhaps many others but his death should have meaning. Just writing over and ignoring the bad cheapens the lessons his life and death holds the same that just stating the bad does. Personally I think he was weird and that weirdness was forgiven by many because of his talents. It highlights to me one of the dangers of talents when they are taken and valued alone and for me his life and death shows how little talents are really worth. He lived and died a selfish unhappy man despite having millions of dollars, millions of fans and the world in the palm of his hand. He could have lived happy if he had made the effort, he could have helped and been a service to so many people but instead he wasted the opportunities that were given to him. His life story gives lesson on what is important regardless of talents, money or fans in my opinion and his death an exclamation point on those lessons. Some will ignore those lessons by lionizing him others will ignore those lessons by continuing to hate him even in death, hopefully others will look at their own lives and see what is important to them and to their children families and nation and value those things a little more than money and celebrity. 

Regards
Brian King


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## JadecloudAlchemist (Jun 26, 2009)

If we look at Jackson's case starting with the first case we know the father gave his child Sodium Amytal which is a mind altering substance when he questioned him about Jackson.

We know the father in the first case did not like Jackson. We know other kids were interviewed who denied anything went on. We know the father was in debt and after searches at Jackson's home found no proof of anything really.

The second case is even more baffling. We know the mother commited Welfare fraud,Sued J.C. Penny's,Tried to sue George Lopez,The childrens stories were inconsistent with each other.

As for did he buy the family. The father was requesting money. Jackson's health was declining due to drug use and stress I am sure at that point he just wanted to get on with his life.
 But you are more than welcome to research it on your own the cases.


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## MA-Caver (Jun 26, 2009)

This is an interesting read... Lived like a king but died a pauper. 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090626/ap_on_bi_ge/us_michael_jackson_inc


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## Gordon Nore (Jun 26, 2009)

Bob Hubbard said:


> AFAIK, Jackson was never found guilty of wrong doing. Settling isn't the same as admitting guilt. Did I like him? Not really. Did I like his music? No. But, he always struck me more as someone to pity than condemn. His childhood was really messed up, hell, the whole family is pretty strange. I take no pleasure in his death.


 
That's pretty much where I'm at. I liked a couple of the songs, but I never owned any of his recordings. I respected his talent, and he was a dynamically talented individual.

Bob, you're right. Jackson was never convicted of abuse of children. Notwithstanding, I always found it disturbing that he had sleepovers with other people's kids. Even if these episodes were not sexual, sharing a bed is intimate -- something that close family members do. What I find more disturbing is that parents would allow their children to have (apparently) unsupervised overnight stays at Jackson's home.

Reading between the lines, that tells me how outrageous Jackson's celebrity was and how badly people wanted a piece of him. As inappropriate as many of us might believe his behaviour was, there were obviously people lining up to validate and enable it. I don't believe there was anyone with the power or the backbone to tell him, "No."


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## Gordon Nore (Jun 26, 2009)

MA-Caver said:


> This is an interesting read... Lived like a king but died a pauper.


 
I wonder what will become of the Beatles catalogue. I heard some years ago that Jackson had borrowed heavily against it when his empire was collapsing. Jackson, people may remember, was roundly criticized for licensing the song Revolution to Nike for a commercial. I would hate to think of the Beatles songs being dumped on the market like a fire sale to clean up his debts.


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## Tez3 (Jun 26, 2009)

I have honestly no opinion about him one way or another, I liked some of his music but it's not really my thing. However I'm rather tired of all the media attention it's attracting. We have specials about him on most channels, it's making top of the news even on our regional news! I realise it's news but do we have to have it as most of the news?


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## Bob Hubbard (Jun 26, 2009)

Hey, his death almost crashed the Internet.


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## arnisador (Jun 26, 2009)

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31571885/ns/technology_and_science-tech_and_gadgets/



> News of Michael Jackson&#8217;s death broke on the Internet late Thursday afternoon. Not long after that, the Internet broke too. Twitter crashed, as did Michael Jackson&#8217;s Wikipedia entry. Facebook lumbered under countless Michael Jackson video uploads retrieved from an over-accessed YouTube, and both ground to a halt.



http://news.cnet.com/8301-17939_109-10274137-2.html



> Google has confirmed that the surge of Michael Jackson-related searches on Google News Thursday was first interpreted as an attack on its service.


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## MA-Caver (Jun 26, 2009)

Tez3 said:


> I have honestly no opinion about him one way or another, I liked some of his music but it's not really my thing. However I'm rather tired of all the media attention it's attracting. We have specials about him on most channels, it's making top of the news even on our regional news! I realise it's news but do we have to have it as most of the news?


It'll faze out soon enough... just like it did with Elvis' death and other celebs who are considered "Mega-Stars" 
The news is fickle... if North Korea were to attack right now then everyone would say Michael who??


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## myusername (Jun 26, 2009)

Ah let us not mourn too soon, I think that Michael will be with us for a good while yet. He is pretty much non-biodegradable


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## Archangel M (Jun 26, 2009)

I have to wonder what toll all the cosmetic surgeries, skin bleaching, hypobaric chambers and God knows what else had on MJ's body and health.....


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## MA-Caver (Jun 26, 2009)

myusername said:


> Ah let us not mourn too soon, I think that Michael will be with us for a good while yet. He is pretty much non-biodegradable





Archangel M said:


> I have to wonder what toll all the cosmetic surgeries, skin bleaching, hypobaric chambers and God knows what else had on MJ's body and health.....



I'm going to be looking for Elvisesque "Michael Sightings!"

Wonder if there's going to be Michael Jackson impersonators inundating Disneyland/World??


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## myusername (Jun 26, 2009)

Andy Moynihan said:


> A child of four could've told you this is not the place, nor the time.


 (_*in reference to a joke left by nelsonkari*_



seasoned said:


> I started a thread in the Hall of rememberance, because of all the people bashing, I felt would happen here, of the dead. Some over here can beat the crap out of this person, but the fact of the matter is, no matter what he did, or was acused of, he is dead. What ever reward or condemnation there is after life, he is totaly there. I am not advacating the man, but we are not here to bust on the dead, at least I hope not. Put your dot down, shut the ---- up, and go on.





MA-Caver said:


> but either way we feel that it is still disrespectful to speak ill of the dead.





sgtmac_46 said:


> but I won't say anything bad............he that dies pays all debts.



I'm sorry, I respect all of the people I have quoted here but I have to totally disagree on this issue. I personally feel that this is indeed the right place and the right time to share all of the best Jackson jokes you can muster. IMO this is a healthier and a more normal reaction than the media's hysterical reaction to this troubled mans death. 

I don't know if in America you are getting the same level and TONE of news coverage where nobody is mentioning the enormous elephant in the room (this obviously being the kiddiefiddling!!) and the reams and reams of has-been celebs and those wanting their five minutes of fame coming out and blubbing about what good friends they were with Michael Jackson! This is the same media that was up until very recently enjoying their tabloid lynching antics and having great fun poking fun at the "freakshow" that was Michael Jacksons life.

You cannot blame people for reacting with humour and satire when faced with such clear and obvious hypocrisy. I live in a country where an ignorant mob had stupidly attacked a pediatrician after mistaking the words pediatrician for peadophile!! I live in a country where a woman who has the misfortune to look a little bit like, but crucially not identical to Maxine Carr (an accomplice to a child murderer) is routinely beaten up by her neighbours. Now all of a sudden everybody is ok with a major pop star that payed for the silence of children when faced with child molestation charges?!! Again the hypocrisy evident in the public reaction to this man's death is wide open for ridicule and satire.

The media saturation and this overwhelming hypocrisy is like a big balloon waiting to be popped and the average member of the public is sticking in the pin the only way that they can and that is by telling and sharing all of the peado and plastic surgery gags they can think of! This is happening in offices and pubs up and down the land and good on them I say, as it all helps to restore the balance and is downright refreshing in the face of the Sky news and BBC coverage.

Personally I find the simpering news reporting on this subject much more offensive than any joke.

Just my opinion


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## myusername (Jun 26, 2009)

MA-Caver said:


> I'm going to be looking for Elvisesque "Michael Sightings!"



I imagine that unlike Elvis and Bruce Lee there isn't going to be many out there that look like him to be honest! I reckon it will be quite hard to confuse him with any average Joe in the local chip shop! If there are sightings I look forward to the wobbly camera phone footage!!

No, he is definitely dead, resting in heaven with the baby Jesus and all those Cherubs (I hope someone is keeping an eye on him!)


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## Deaf Smith (Jun 26, 2009)

Twin Fist said:


> edited cuz someone will get a knot in thier shorts if i told the truth about how I feel abotu that................person


 
You mean that child molester?

Deaf


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## Twin Fist (Jun 26, 2009)

*                Farrah made it to Heaven so God gave her one wish. She wished all the children on Earth would be safe*

*
*

*
*

*So Michael Jackson died..*


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## Bob Hubbard (Jun 26, 2009)

Hey, did you hear about the John Kennedy Headache cure?  Well, for the first part you take a drive through Dallas....

wait, a little tacky? A little insensitive. I mean he's only been dead 40+ years, surely now we can laugh?  No.

Then maybe we can hold off a bit before we start posting about how Jackson's nose will out last him, how he died from choking on 10 yr old nuts, how during the autopsy they found Webster gerbiling, and so on.  I'd like to fantasize that we're above such things for a little bit.


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## Twin Fist (Jun 26, 2009)

i like dead kennedy jokes............





and i waited 24 hours........lol


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## MA-Caver (Jun 26, 2009)

Bob Hubbard said:


> Hey, did you hear about the John Kennedy Headache cure?  Well, for the first part you take a drive through Dallas....
> 
> wait, a little tacky? A little insensitive. I mean he's only been dead 40+ years, surely now we can laugh?  No.
> 
> Then maybe we can hold off a bit before we start posting about how Jackson's nose will out last him, how he died from choking on 10 yr old nuts, how during the autopsy they found Webster gerbiling, and so on.  I'd like to fantasize that we're above such things for a little bit.


Well if we're going to do all of THAT then lets create a thread in AfterDark or the Dead Parrot... 
I mean c'mon... 
Like Robin Williams said about Neverland... you must be "_this_" high to ride Michael!


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## Darksoul (Jun 26, 2009)

-My girlfriend pointed out something interesting:

It took Michael Jackson's death for MTV to start playing videos again


Andrew


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## Andrew Green (Jun 27, 2009)

[yt]8VASYhabHkM[/yt]

He might have been a bit of a nut case, but he had talent.

Compare his live performances too any modern pop star.  He is one person in a spot light, no backup singers, no back up dancers, no pyrotechnics.  Just him.

Unfortunately he also was the poster-child for what can happen when child stars are pushed too hard, too early and become completely disconnected with reality.


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## MA-Caver (Jun 27, 2009)

Andrew Green said:


> He might have been a bit of a nut case, but he had talent.
> 
> Compare his live performances too any modern pop star.  He is one person in a spot light, no backup singers, no back up dancers, no pyrotechnics.  Just him.
> 
> Unfortunately he also was the poster-child for what can happen when child stars are pushed too hard, too early and become completely disconnected with reality.


Indeed the man was at the top of his game IMO with Thriller and showcased his talent on that special (I remember seeing it and going WOW on that moon walk thing... inspired by Marcel Marceau's walking against the wind)... he showed what ONE person can do without any support and got the crowds screaming and applauding crazily.  It's a great talent he could have actually gotten away with all the allegations against him if he hadn't kept altering his face ... but the stranger his looks got the stronger the suspicions against him from fans and the media. Though he emphatically denied in several interviews those allegations against him (even his then wife Lisa Marie Presley supporting him)... the appearance was damning enough. If he had the company of the children's parents with them at ALL times then nobody could have said anything against him.
I love children too... dearly... but I'm very VERY careful about how I interact with them and it's ALWAYS in the presence of the parents ... I've baby sat and been careful with that as well, Michael was mistakenly relying upon his star-power and his reputation as a warm and tender human being and all of that to protect him from suspicion when he was around children.
Classic pedo-behavioral traits but we may never know for sure. He made himself vulnerable by being ALONE with the child just long enough and that idiotic admission of "nothing wrong with going to bed with children", while (in his mind) a totally innocent statement actually threw a dixie cup full of gasoline on the fire. 

I can see how he would want to surround himself and try to relive the childhood he felt that he SHOULD have had, that became lost when he became a star at 6 years old (history shows that he and his brothers earned $1000.00 for doing 36 shows in one week... do the math) imagine the pressure to maintain the perfection that made him (and his brothers) a superstar... so now that he has the money, the power and the means that part of him that was still a child wanted to live out his lost childhood vicariously... but he forgot one important thing IMO... our childhood years are monitored by our adult parents... doing away with the parents was a mistake... and it cost him.


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## Andrew Green (Jun 27, 2009)

MA-Caver said:


> doing away with the parents was a mistake... and it cost him.



His dad was likely a huge influence on his... well.. crazyness.  No one should have to put up with that sort of abuse as a child.


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## Bob Hubbard (Jun 27, 2009)

If you look at all the speculation, all the rumors, all the fear, all the hatred, all the accusations, all the jokes tossed at him, how many of us could suffer that constant barrage and not crack, not fall?


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## arnisador (Jun 27, 2009)

For that kind of money, I'd be laughing all the way to the bank (and not dying in debt). But it's still a fair point, and all the more so when you add on the childhood he had.


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## Bob Hubbard (Jun 27, 2009)

Money can only take you so far. If you're not at peace with yourself, it won't fill the gap.


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## Archangel M (Jun 27, 2009)

arnisador said:


> For that kind of money, I'd be laughing all the way to the bank (and not dying in debt). But it's still a fair point, and all the more so when you add on the childhood he had.



The news just quoted a HALF BILLION dollars in debt.


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## MA-Caver (Jun 27, 2009)

Andrew Green said:


> > Originally Posted by *MA-Caver*
> >
> >
> > _ doing away with the parents was a mistake... and it cost him._
> ...


True and he may have subconsciously wanted the children's parents out of the way because it was too much of a reminder of his own (undoubtedly) watchful father (in the wings while they were on stage, etc). On my tours I get dozens of children each week accompanied by their parents... I've seen how some parents couldn't smile no matter how hard you tried... so the kids are sensitive to their parent's feelings and the warnings of "behave yourself" probably while they were pulling into the parking lot. Seems to me Michael wanted the child to be relaxed and enjoy themselves without that pressure and (again) enjoying their pleasure vicariously as they have fun in that great big amusement park that is his home. 
The road to hell is paved with good intentions. 



Bob Hubbard said:


> If you look at all the speculation, all the rumors, all the fear, all the hatred, all the accusations, all the jokes tossed at him, how many of us could suffer that constant barrage and not crack, not fall?


How many of us indeed... IMO probably not a lot. That aforementioned negativity trying to be balanced with all the positive energy of his music, his performances and the HUGE success (total of 750 million albums) and the adoration of millions of fans... 
Seems to me if Michael had gotten into MA he might've handled it a bit better by finding the balance that was needed in his life... Elvis did for a while but his addiction to the (prescription) drugs is what done him in. Apparently Michael who was also taking prescribed pain killers and god knows what else... succumbed to the same thing... or speculation is leading to that direction.


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## Omar B (Jun 28, 2009)

arnisador said:


> For that kind of money, I'd be laughing all the way to the bank (and not dying in debt). But it's still a fair point, and all the more so when you add on the childhood he had.



But he was a star and rich before he even had an idea what a buck was worth.  He probably had the financial acumen of that 8 year old child from the Ed Sullivan show.  Nothing teaches you how to handle money like not having it and well, he was never in that situation.


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## Big Don (Jun 28, 2009)

Darksoul said:


> -My girlfriend pointed out something interesting:
> 
> It took Michael Jackson's death for MTV to start playing videos again
> 
> ...


That is friggin sad


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## Darksoul (Jun 28, 2009)

-Yeah it is. Guess you could say that MTV plays TRL crap and some rap/ hip-hop videos but its not the same. Its like listening to a radio station that plays the 'greatest hits'. But thats all they play! Take 2 or 3 hit songs from a small selection of artists and play on repeat. I don't think I've regularly watched MTV in over 15 years.

-On another note, as I'm watching some of Michael's videos, besides the talent, he could also connect people all over the world, and I think if the media had backed off and all the crap hadn't happen, he could have been a bigger influence in bringing people together to work on world issues. The only person I can think of doing that now is U2's Bono. Seems like Michael really went to waste in many ways.

-I want my MTV. My old MTV.


Andrew


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## Tez3 (Jun 28, 2009)

Darksoul said:


> -Yeah it is. Guess you could say that MTV plays TRL crap and some rap/ hip-hop videos but its not the same. Its like listening to a radio station that plays the 'greatest hits'. But thats all they play! Take 2 or 3 hit songs from a small selection of artists and play on repeat. I don't think I've regularly watched MTV in over 15 years.
> 
> -On another note, as I'm watching some of Michael's videos, besides the talent, he could also connect people all over the world, and I think if the media had backed off and all the crap hadn't happen, he could have been a bigger influence in bringing people together to work on world issues. The only person I can think of doing that now is U2's Bono. Seems like Michael really went to waste in many ways.
> 
> ...


 
Bono is a fake frankly and a pretentious one at that. He hasn't really done anything for the world other that be condescending.
However good Micheal Jackson could have been, governments wouldn't have listened, no more than they'd listen to any 'pop' star. It just makes politicians look good in the media when associating with them.


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## Darksoul (Jun 29, 2009)

-You know, I try to look at the bright side, then you have to bring reality back into the picture, haha! You're absolutely right. Stupid politicians.


Andrew


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## Cryozombie (Jun 30, 2009)

Tez3 said:


> Bono is a fake frankly and a pretentious one at that. He hasn't really done anything for the world other that be condescending.


 
THANK YOU!

I've been saying this for years... and from the reactions I have gotten I assumed I was the only one who thought so.


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## Joab (Jun 30, 2009)

I don't think it is good to speak or write bad things about the dead. Michael Jackson is now facing the judgement, I say let God judge him.


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## nelsonkari (Jun 30, 2009)

Dear Joab,

Would you say the same thing about the death of Hitler?

"I don't think it is good to speak or write bad things about the dead. Michael Jackson is now facing the judgement, I say let God judge him."

If we ignore the evil that men and women do we become passive participants in their actions.

Nelson Kari


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## elder999 (Jun 30, 2009)

nelsonkari said:


> If we ignore the evil that men and women do we become passive participants in their actions.
> 
> Nelson Kari


 

In the instance of the allegations against Michael Jackson, how can we be anything but "passive participants" then? It's not as though any single one of us can have any definitive knowledge of "evil," or even wrongdoing. Clearly some boundaries were crossed that most if not all of us would be uncomfortable with, but the fact remains that we do not and cannot know that he actually physically violated any children. In this particular instance, I think Joab is largely right: _judge not, lest ye be judged,_ which was actually applied to an instance where the sin was *known*, not alleged.....


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## JadecloudAlchemist (Jun 30, 2009)

I don't think we can really compare Michael Jackson to Hitler.

 I provided the case on I think page 3 of this thread. We can clearly see those who claim to be victims at other motives behind their agenda.

 IMO looking at the way Jackson dealt with children he mostly thought of himself as a child living out his childhood and himself as a big child more than a sexual predator.  IMO I think his idea of children is a worshipping,protection type thing. This may stem from his childhood abuse in which he sees himself as a protector figure of children and if we see it like that we can understand more about his realtionship with children.

But that is what I think of Jackson's realtionship with children a way to connect and cope with his own childhood trauma.
Here he talks about his abuse from his father during this interview:


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## Bob Hubbard (Jun 30, 2009)

Well, we can see that he's dead and not faking it. CNN had pics of his 3 kids without masks up. Say what you will about him, he was pretty protective of those kids.


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## Twin Fist (Jun 30, 2009)

you mean when he wasnt dangling them over a railing 3 stories up??


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## Bob Hubbard (Jun 30, 2009)

I've seen much worse from less celebrated folks.  When his example of a father was his own, I think he did better, y'know?


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## Joab (Jun 30, 2009)

nelsonkari said:


> Dear Joab,
> 
> Would you say the same thing about the death of Hitler?
> 
> ...


 
I thought about Hitler when I wrote it, and no, I wouldn't say the same thing about Hitler. We need to know about the evil of Adolph Hitler so we can be determined to not let another Hitler do the things he did, not allow anyone to have his kind of power. I think Michael Jackson's case is different. I will write I'm glad I'm not in his shoes facing the judgement of God...


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## arnisador (Jun 30, 2009)

nelsonkari said:


> Would you say the same thing about the death of Hitler?



Or Godwin?


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## myusername (Jun 30, 2009)

Say what you like about Michael Jackson it was very difficult not to be touched by him (ahem!  )


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## arnisador (Jul 4, 2009)

This seems to apply all too often, including here:


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## Carol (Jul 4, 2009)

Classic!!


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