# Getting good pictures



## Gerry Seymour (Sep 6, 2016)

I've been making a push to get some decent pictures for a new website for my program. My wife occasionally steps off the mats and gets a few, but it's tough to get the right shots, and I only want her to step out for a few minutes at a time. So I picked up an app for my iPhone that takes photos at a selected interval, set the phone on a tripod, then just started it then started the class when there were only 2 students (so no crowded backgrounds). Problem solved!

Er...almost. I set it to a 30-second interval, and let it take pictures for an entire 90-minute class. Apparently, that's a perfect interval for catching pictures of people standing around and what appears to be some ballroom dance practice. In 90 minutes of 30-second intervals, it picked up exactly 3 actual techniques. I also got some great pictures of my own butt, a few inexplicable looks of confusion on my own face, and 2 shots of my students laughing at me.

I think I need to try again.


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## Dirty Dog (Sep 6, 2016)

Consider setting up something better than your iPhone, recording the entire class, and then doing frame captures.


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## Gerry Seymour (Sep 6, 2016)

Dirty Dog said:


> Consider setting up something better than your iPhone, recording the entire class, and then doing frame captures.


If I had anything better, I'd definitely use it (my iPhone takes pictures as well as my wife's camera). I probably have enough free space to do video; I just need to check and see if it's the same resolution, since I'm capturing a large frame and cropping down to what I really want. I think next time I'll also set up her camera, though it doesn't have the free space my phone has.


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## jks9199 (Sep 6, 2016)

Random attempts are probably going to continue to get the same results.  Honestly,  reach out to Bob Hubbard,  the former owner and founder of MT, especially if you're reasonably close to his area. He's an excellent photographer with the martial arts background to get the right pictures for you,  and to make you look great. 

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


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## JR 137 (Sep 7, 2016)

If you're serious about it, you should hire a photographer.  One who does a lot of sports photography.  It may cost you a bit of money, but it'll be done right.  A good photographer will sit down with you and ask you what you're looking for and deliver it.

Just like the MA, photography is an art.  You're not going to get the shots you're looking for by placing an iPhone in a corner set on interval.  If you get one or two good ones, it's purely luck.

Unless your wife's camera is a low quality point and shoot, it's not better than your iPhone.  If it's a decent camera, your iPhone pics look better because you/she doesn't really know how to use it. iPhone pics may look better on an iPhone screen, but put them on a computer/website and/or print them and it's quite easy to tell the difference, so long as the camera is set correctly and isn't a very low grade camera.

Sorry for the rant; I like taking pictures of my family. My wife shakes her head at me, but when she sees the pics she stops (for the most part).  The most technically challenging part of taking good pics in a dojo (or anywhere else really) is the lighting.  Dojos are notoriously poorly lit.  Little if any natural light, drop ceilings that suck the energy out of bounced flash, too many mirrors that mess up the flash, etc.  Someone who's been around will be able to get good pics without too many problems.


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## Gerry Seymour (Sep 7, 2016)

jks9199 said:


> Random attempts are probably going to continue to get the same results.  Honestly,  reach out to Bob Hubbard,  the former owner and founder of MT, especially if you're reasonably close to his area. He's an excellent photographer with the martial arts background to get the right pictures for you,  and to make you look great.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk





JR 137 said:


> If you're serious about it, you should hire a photographer.  One who does a lot of sports photography.  It may cost you a bit of money, but it'll be done right.  A good photographer will sit down with you and ask you what you're looking for and deliver it.
> 
> Just like the MA, photography is an art.  You're not going to get the shots you're looking for by placing an iPhone in a corner set on interval.  If you get one or two good ones, it's purely luck.
> 
> ...


My program is very small (and always will be - I don't have time to teach many classes) - spending money on a photographer really doesn't make sense, and would likely cost what the program brings in that month. This is just for me to have a few decent pics for the website. And for web-quality pictures, the camera actually isn't going to get better pics noticeably than the iPhone combined with some editing - it isn't a *very *low grade camera, but it's not a DSLR and only a bit above a point-and-shoot, so there are few settings that would be useful for pictures like this. I should double-check to see if it has the ability to change the focal depth - that might be worth the use in and of itself. The main reason I prefer the iPhone is the ability to leave it taking pictures on its own. The biggest challenge (and the one the photographer would be a help with) is simply getting the right shot. Randomness does produce a few nice ones, and that's good enough for now, combined with what we can get if Maria steps off the mats occasionally. As you rightly assumed, the lighting is not great, but this time of year it works out. There's an entire wall of windows (floor-to-ceiling glass) with thin shades on them that make for a decent light during the morning, with the crappy florescents providing fill.


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## Justin Chang (Sep 7, 2016)

gpseymour said:


> My program is very small (and always will be - I don't have time to teach many classes) - spending money on a photographer really doesn't make sense, and would likely cost what the program brings in that month. This is just for me to have a few decent pics for the website. And for web-quality pictures, the camera actually isn't going to get better pics noticeably than the iPhone combined with some editing - it isn't a *very *low grade camera, but it's not a DSLR and only a bit above a point-and-shoot, so there are few settings that would be useful for pictures like this. I should double-check to see if it has the ability to change the focal depth - that might be worth the use in and of itself. The main reason I prefer the iPhone is the ability to leave it taking pictures on its own. The biggest challenge (and the one the photographer would be a help with) is simply getting the right shot. Randomness does produce a few nice ones, and that's good enough for now, combined with what we can get if Maria steps off the mats occasionally. As you rightly assumed, the lighting is not great, but this time of year it works out. There's an entire wall of windows (floor-to-ceiling glass) with thin shades on them that make for a decent light during the morning, with the crappy florescents providing fill.



Maybe you could find someone who could take photos for you in exchange for some private lessons or some other barter.


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## Gerry Seymour (Sep 7, 2016)

Justin Chang said:


> Maybe you could find someone who could take photos for you in exchange for some private lessons or some other barter.


At some point, I will doubtless go looking for better pictures, and that's not a bad idea.


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## JowGaWolf (Sep 7, 2016)

Dirty Dog said:


> Consider setting up something better than your iPhone, recording the entire class, and then doing frame captures.


I do this a lot .  I just record the class for a few minutes and then pause the video at places were I want capture as pictures.  If I don't do that then I just take a lot of pictures and not worry about trying to get the perfect picture.  I figure if I take 50 pictures that there will be at least one picture that looks good.  If you have the money, Sony makes a camera that takes high speed video.  It's on my list of things to get.  I'll be in Fight Analysis Heaven once I get the camera


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## Kickboxer101 (Sep 7, 2016)

Why don't you just do a quick photo shoot after class. E.g get your guys to do a techique and freeze in a certain cool looking position and take the photo


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## Gerry Seymour (Sep 7, 2016)

JowGaWolf said:


> I do this a lot .  I just record the class for a few minutes and then pause the video at places were I want capture as pictures.  If I don't do that then I just take a lot of pictures and not worry about trying to get the perfect picture.  I figure if I take 50 pictures that there will be at least one picture that looks good.  If you have the money, Sony makes a camera that takes high speed video.  It's on my list of things to get.  I'll be in Fight Analysis Heaven once I get the camera


A better camera is definitely in the offing sometime soon. That would solve some of the issues


Kickboxer101 said:


> Why don't you just do a quick photo shoot after class. E.g get your guys to do a techique and freeze in a certain cool looking position and take the photo


Because those stills always look crappy to me (my trained eye - probably not so much to the general public, I know). I'm trying to catch some shots of what the techniques look like, and I've never managed to reproduce that well in a still shot. Using the automatic cam app, I can just let my camera capture shots every class, and use the two or three that are decent.

Of course, one of the issues is that training rarely looks good in pictures. Even with a video camera capturing 30FPS, there would probably only be a handful of shots that don't have a pair of butts, someone giving a "derp" face, two people dancing an awkward waltz, or what looks like someone's popping a squat on the mats.


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## Kickboxer101 (Sep 7, 2016)

gpseymour said:


> A better camera is definitely in the offing sometime soon. That would solve some of the issues
> 
> Because those stills always look crappy to me (my trained eye - probably not so much to the general public, I know). I'm trying to catch some shots of what the techniques look like, and I've never managed to reproduce that well in a still shot. Using the automatic cam app, I can just let my camera capture shots every class, and use the two or three that are decent.
> 
> Of course, one of the issues is that training rarely looks good in pictures. Even with a video camera capturing 30FPS, there would probably only be a handful of shots that don't have a pair of butts, someone giving a "derp" face, two people dancing an awkward waltz, or what looks like someone's popping a squat on the mats.


True but like you said it's more likely it'll be untrained people looking at your stuff, it's the same with demos most martial artists know they're very unrealistic and don't really look that great but to the general public they look amazing


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## jks9199 (Sep 7, 2016)

Justin Chang said:


> Maybe you could find someone who could take photos for you in exchange for some private lessons or some other barter.


A similar but different angle -- look into local photography classes or clubs, both school and general.  You might find someone willing to take the photos if they can use them for portfolio purposes or a class project...

At a minimum -- have someone "sit out" class and focus on taking the pictures.  That way, you won't be hoping the camera is in the right place, snapping at the right time, to get a good picture.


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## Gerry Seymour (Sep 7, 2016)

Kickboxer101 said:


> True but like you said it's more likely it'll be untrained people looking at your stuff, it's the same with demos most martial artists know they're very unrealistic and don't really look that great but to the general public they look amazing


Yeah, but I still have to look at the danged site. It's a flaw of mine - I have a need to put up something that actually looks like one of the techniques in use AND looks good. Foolish? Yes. Useful? Not really. Me? Yep.


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## Gerry Seymour (Sep 7, 2016)

jks9199 said:


> A similar but different angle -- look into local photography classes or clubs, both school and general.  You might find someone willing to take the photos if they can use them for portfolio purposes or a class project...


That's a thought. There's a tech school nearby that I think has photography classes. It would present a good challenge (like any sports photography).


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## JowGaWolf (Sep 7, 2016)

Kickboxer101 said:


> True but like you said it's more likely it'll be untrained people looking at your stuff, it's the same with demos most martial artists know they're very unrealistic and don't really look that great but to the general public they look amazing


 I have the same problem as well. I've never been a fan of posing for pictures.  When I look at all of the cool pictures of people doing stuff, the ones that look really good are the ones where the person is actually in action.  To me it's like taking a picture of a tennis player showing a forehand technique.  Which picture looks better? The picture where you pose as if you are doing a forehand or the picture that shows you actually doing a forehand?

I like taking photos and my wife hates me because I don't like to pose.  I'm always telling her that the best pictures are the ones that we don't pose for because it captures the reality of what we are doing and are expressing. 

From a martial arts business perspective, It's really hard for me to agree with you because I know you are right.  Pictures like that do bring people in, but it's not a good representation of the system in terms of what to really expect. 

Now with that said, I'm hoping to prove you wrong by actually getting some really good pictures of techniques being done so I can put a small note on the bottom of the photo: *_Picture taken from actual application during sparring._ Or *Picture taken from actual competitive sparring.   But until then I'll have to agree with you, the staged photos attract those who aren't really informed.  Maybe in 4 months I'll be able to capture some photos and videos that will make people change their mind about posing.


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## Steve (Sep 7, 2016)

You seem like a reasonably friendly guy.  Surely you know someone who will come down and take pictures for you for free (or maybe a beer or a pizza or something like that). 

As I understand it, you're looking for decent shots for your website.  All you need is a buddy with one working eyeball and one working hand and any point and shoot camera sold within the last 10 years will have some kind of "sport" mode, which will reduce the shutter speed and allow you to take a picture of something that is moving without it looking like a picture of the Flash.


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## Gerry Seymour (Sep 7, 2016)

Steve said:


> You seem like a reasonably friendly guy.  Surely you know someone who will come down and take pictures for you for free (or maybe a beer or a pizza or something like that).
> 
> As I understand it, you're looking for decent shots for your website.  All you need is a buddy with one working eyeball and one working hand and any point and shoot camera sold within the last 10 years will have some kind of "sport" mode, which will reduce the shutter speed and allow you to take a picture of something that is moving without it looking like a picture of the Flash.


I don't have a lot of buddies in the area, unfortunately. Most of my business and work is done while traveling, and when I'm home I'm fairly happy hanging out at home. I don't get out and make a lot of friends outside MA, and all my MA friends are in other towns (except the students who are actually training in those classes).

It's not a big problem. I just have to dig through all the not-good pictures to find the few gems. Since the site isn't up yet, there's no real rush.


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## WaterGal (Sep 8, 2016)

jks9199 said:


> At a minimum -- have someone "sit out" class and focus on taking the pictures.  That way, you won't be hoping the camera is in the right place, snapping at the right time, to get a good picture.



This would definitely be better than doing it randomly, but even so, this approach tends to get a lot of "before" and "after" shots or photos that are blurry.  I've done this, and I'll sit and take 50 photos of people sparring or doing pad work and get like 3 usable photos and the rest look like the students are standing around or just have their leg halfway up or whatever.

Edit: we used to have a student that was an amateur photographer with a high-end camera who took photos at one of our black belt tests, and they came out better than the ones I took with my phone or cheap point-and-shoot and seemed to get a larger proportion of decent photos.  I've got some of those up on our website.


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## Gerry Seymour (Sep 8, 2016)

WaterGal said:


> This would definitely be better than doing it randomly, but even so, this approach tends to get a lot of "before" and "after" shots or photos that are blurry.  I've done this, and I'll sit and take 50 photos of people sparring or doing pad work and get like 3 usable photos and the rest look like the students are standing around or just have their leg halfway up or whatever.
> 
> Edit: we used to have a student that was an amateur photographer with a high-end camera who took photos at one of our black belt tests, and they came out better than the ones I took with my phone or cheap point-and-shoot and seemed to get a larger proportion of decent photos.  I've got some of those up on our website.


That is a common problem. If I were buying a camera for taking pictures like this, I'd get one with a fast "burst" mode. That's a much easier way to get decent shots, since you can start a bit early and let it cover the entire sequence. With that approach, you can sometimes even get more than one good shot for a single sequence.


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## ShortBridge (Dec 9, 2016)

I'd do it for you for free if I was near you. (and it would be worth every penny!)

I'm sure that you wouldn't want to and couldn't impose on a professional photographer for pro bono work, but there are tons of enthusiasts like me who could get good shots for you and would enjoy the challenge. Ask around.


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## ShortBridge (Dec 9, 2016)

I'd do it for you for free if I was near you. (and it would be worth every penny!)

I'm sure that you wouldn't want to and couldn't impose on a professional photographer for pro bono work, but there are tons of enthusiasts like me who could get good shots for you and would enjoy the challenge. Ask around.


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## Steve (Dec 9, 2016)

Kickboxer101 said:


> Why don't you just do a quick photo shoot after class. E.g get your guys to do a techique and freeze in a certain cool looking position and take the photo


For some reason, I think of this:


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## King Kobra (Dec 9, 2016)

jks9199 said:


> A similar but different angle -- look into local photography classes or clubs, both school and general.  You might find someone willing to take the photos if they can use them for portfolio purposes or a class project...
> 
> At a minimum -- have someone "sit out" class and focus on taking the pictures.  That way, you won't be hoping the camera is in the right place, snapping at the right time, to get a good picture.



Most definitely this. Any aspiring photographer will jump at the chance. Just go down to the front desk of the college and ask for the teachers contact information or look up the teacher on their site and shoot off an email. Or maybe a high school photography class, they also have access to good quality cameras and heck you might even get another student out of it lol.


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## JR 137 (Dec 9, 2016)

Steve said:


> You seem like a reasonably friendly guy.  Surely you know someone who will come down and take pictures for you for free (or maybe a beer or a pizza or something like that).
> 
> As I understand it, you're looking for decent shots for your website.  All you need is a buddy with one working eyeball and one working hand and any point and shoot camera sold within the last 10 years will have some kind of "sport" mode, which will reduce the shutter speed and allow you to take a picture of something that is moving without it looking like a picture of the Flash.



I know, this is an old post, but...

You need a fast shutter speed.  Slow shutter speed gives the blur (intentionally or unintentionally).

The problem with poor lighting is you need to get creative with the settings.  Lower amount of light would need things that you'd have to trade off to get the right balance...

Slower shutter speed = more light coming in.  But it can get blurry easily, especially in stuff at MA pace. I'd go with 1/125 sec shutter speed and bump up and down as needed.

Aperature - how much the lens iris opens.  The wider it opens (the lower the f/ number), the more light comes in.  The trade off is shallower depth of field.  Meaning less stuff will be in focus.

ISO - light sensitivity.  Higher ISO will be brighter.  Trade off is higher ISO = more noise (grain) in the picture.

You can use flash.  But it should be diffused and/or bounced.  Direct flash from a camera gives that bleached skin tone and/or deer in headlights look.  If you sit for portraits at a studio, they usually us soft lights with umbrellas over them in multiple directions as flash to avoid this.

Sorry, it's just a stupid hobby of mine.  And shooting events indoors in poor lighting is usually the bane of every photographer's existence.

Just thought of this now - how about shooting an outdoor workout?  Not sure if you're near the beach for a beach workout.  Our dojo (and organization) does an annual beach workout.  It's followed by a BBQ with family and friends invited.  Ask a few people to take pics.  Even if you don't get any good pics, you'll still have a great time.


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## JowGaWolf (Dec 9, 2016)

Steve said:


> For some reason, I think of this:


That's what they look like when people pose for photos showing techniques.


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## ShortBridge (Dec 9, 2016)

JowGaWolf said:


> That's what they look like when people pose for photos showing techniques.



They look like Lucy Liu? Well, okay then!


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## drop bear (Dec 9, 2016)

gpseymour said:


> That is a common problem. If I were buying a camera for taking pictures like this, I'd get one with a fast "burst" mode. That's a much easier way to get decent shots, since you can start a bit early and let it cover the entire sequence. With that approach, you can sometimes even get more than one good shot for a single sequence.



Yeah the paparazzi setting is pretty much what I use.

Otherwise set some drills.  Then take twenty seconds or so to take photos or video.

I don't think they really have to be glamour shots anyway.

This is how ours turn out. 
https://m.facebook.com/WhitsundayMartialArts/?tsid=0.5776412433709646&source=typeahead


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## Steve (Dec 9, 2016)

drop bear said:


> Yeah the paparazzi setting is pretty much what I use.
> 
> Otherwise set some drills.  Then take twenty seconds or so to take photos or video.
> 
> ...


I can see why you guys like the blurry shots.   Yeesh.


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