# Korean Flail



## ajs1976 (Feb 10, 2005)

I did a google search on this and only found a few references.  One site mentioned that there are two types.  One of them is similiar to or the same as the Okinawan Nunchaku.  The other is longer and I read a description that it was like a Chinese three section staff with only two sections.

Does anyone have any information on either of these.  I am more interested in the longer one.

thanks


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## shesulsa (Feb 10, 2005)

I saw mainly two types of Korean grain flail on my search - the traditional Jyuel Bong (rope-connected sticks) and the traditional flail which was used mainly for soybean harvest rather than wheat or rice harvest.  This tool is a staff-like instrument (with a pointy end, heh) and two or three whips attached to the end.  In farming, the instrument is used with a twisting motion and with a partner, so the harvester strikes the ground which vibrates the immediate ground, vibrating the chaff also which loosens the bean, then the whips actually knock the beans from the chaff.  This is done in rhytmn with a partner who has the same tool.


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## ajs1976 (Feb 10, 2005)

Thanks for the reply.  Searching for Jyuel Bong and Jool Bong turns up a lot more information on the shorter one.  Seems to be commonly taught at Kuk Sol Won schools.  

I'm looking for the link I had about the longer version.


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## glad2bhere (Feb 10, 2005)

The PYUN KON (Large Flail) whose dimensions are given as a pole 8ft, 9in, long with a shorter portion 2ft long. Capable of being used both on horseback and on foot, the MYTBTJ has forms for the use of this weapon and gives history regarding its background. Most agrarian nations have threshing implements for separating grain from chaff and stalk and this has been used to justify the use of the Okinawan implement in some TKD and TSD schools. I have never been able to find a single historical reference to a nunchuka-like device being used in combat though the there are a number of mentions of the polearm being used.  FWIW. 

BTW: Illustrations are recorded with both rope and chain. 

Best Wishes, 

Bruce


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## The Kai (Feb 10, 2005)

Your best bet is to follow the history of the NunChucku


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## glad2bhere (Feb 10, 2005)

Yes, ONE thing you CAN do is use a nunchuka. 

Strictly speaking it is not a "martial art" but rather a "civilian art" since there are no records of it being used by the military. Nor can I find any accounts of it being used as a traditional police weapon as has been the case with the dan bong and the Japanese Tesshin or Jutte. In fact, truth be told I have never found a documented case of them being used as a weapon at all--- even in Okinawa. All we have to go on are stories about someone who knew somebody who had a friend etc etc. BUT you CAN use the nunchuka if your view of Korean MA is less as a unique course of instruction than as something to structure your time with novelty. 

As just a personal note I will share that the use of foreign methods, items and philosophies have had a continually degreading effect on the authenticity of the KMA and the integrity of their curriculums but this need not worry folks too much if all they want to do is have something to play around with. After the novelty wears off and the sticks are collecting dust in the bottom of your closret I am sure you will be off in some other direction, none the worse for wear.  FWIW. 

Best Wishes, 

Bruce


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## SmellyMonkey (Feb 10, 2005)

glad2bhere said:
			
		

> ...need not worry folks too much if all they want to do is have something to play around with. After the novelty wears off and the sticks are collecting dust in the bottom of your closret I am sure you will be off in some other direction, none the worse for wear. FWIW.


Ha ha.  I wish the novelty wore off for my master.  She loves the nunchuka and it is a required weapon to learn at our school once you reach the higher dans.  I'm not crazy about it, but what can I do?  It's really the only thing I disagree with my master about her curriculum.

Jeremy


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## glad2bhere (Feb 10, 2005)

Know what "I'd" do?  I would take the material you are given for the nunchuka and translate it into material for the Pyon Kon. When it comes time to test you can do the sticks for requirements and the Pyon Kon for "extra credit". Tell me she wouldn't eat that up with a fork and spoon!!  :supcool: 

Best Wishes, 

Bruce


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## SmellyMonkey (Feb 10, 2005)

Bruce, I like the way you think.   

I just got my english translated MYTBTJ from Amazon.  I'll look up the pyon kon.

I'm envisioning what my neighbors will think when I'm practicing in the park across the street with an 8'9" pyon kon some saturday morning.  (Hopefully the neighborhood drug dealers will be scared off.)

Jeremy


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## Paul B (Feb 10, 2005)

Hi All,

Bruce,this is very interesting. I did read through that section in the MYDTJ,and thought it peculiar that it would be included(it just seemed weird,ya know?) as a military art. 

That being said,I have "heard" of some people trying to reconstruct weapon use from the MYDTJ,that is cool and great,but have you heard anything about anyone using this type of implement in the modern interpretation?


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## glad2bhere (Feb 10, 2005)

Dear Paul: 

There is a neat book, (a bit hard to get but neat) written by Isabella Bird Bishop. Some people recognize the name from her work done in Japan. She apparently wasn't too hot on going to Korea, and was particularly critical during her visit. The result, ironically, is one of the best examinations of everyday life in Korea by a Westerner at the turn of the 19th century. Not altogether critical but wonderfully "unvarnished" if you know what I mean. ( I don't have an ISBN but it was reprinted as part of a series of books by Yongsei University Press in 1970. RELAX! Its in English!!  )The reason I mention this is that such books often comment of the use of various groups and implements in maintaining security during the harrowing times at the end of the Choson Dynasty. Seems not only did the government have various factions pressing a multitude of agendas but many of the folks had their own little groups of "enforcers". Many of the polearms one can find in the various museums in Korea were more for crowd control than anything else. However you may have read the anecdote in the MYTBTJ Pyun Kon chapter mentioning the use of the flail in an military encounter. FWIW. 

Best Wishes, 

Bruce


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## Paul B (Feb 10, 2005)

Good stuff! Thanks Bruce! I am off to hunt that book down. BTW...what was the name of that movie again? I haven't been able to find that,either.:idunno:


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## glad2bhere (Feb 10, 2005)

Oh, c'mon, Paul!! Thats a "can't miss"!! Though I have to admit that maybe the HOLLYWOOD VIDEO and BLOCKBUSTERS up here have it only because of the large Korean population in the Chicago area. If you can find someone who has the Jet Li movie "HERO" and "Crouching Tiger..." you will probably find "Musa" ("The Warrior"). If you still don't have any luck I will send you my copy (I want it back!!!) given that you have a DVD player, yes? 

There is a guy up here that runs a tiny video store who tipped me to a new Korean Epic that is suppose to be available in about two weeks on the American market.  Its called "Brotherhood of War" and is suppose to rival "Musa" as a sword epic of old. More on this to come.  FWIW. 



Best Wishes, 

Bruce


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## glad2bhere (Feb 10, 2005)

BTW: One of these days we need to get together for a project I started and is only half finished. 

In the MYTBTJ there is a two-man sword form (See: WAE GUM) that I was working with a great guy on. Unfortunately he relocated to Colorado and I have been stuck without anyone to continue work on the form with. We did manage to tape what we have and there IS a (bad) attempt at the form in the MYTBTJ tapes from Turtle Press. I would have expected better work with real focus on what they were doing but the result is just two guys banging their swords together willy-nilly. Actual technique has been abandoned in the name of making a visual splash, I guess. Anyhow I throw it out there for whatever its worth. 

Best Wishes, 

Bruce


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## Paul B (Feb 10, 2005)

That's what I thought! I was sure I was reading it right...it's not available around these parts for some odd reason,no worries,I'll just buy it. One can never have enough good slash-em-ups! :duel: 


I found the book,too. The 1898 version for $157 and a reprint for $17.95....I bought the 17.95 one...heehee. I can't wait to read it.


I would be honored to help out in anyway I can,just let me know.


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## glad2bhere (Feb 10, 2005)

There is also a Korean shop not too far from me that rents Korean movies. I understand that Korea has a genre of films kind of like what the Samurai movies are to Japan or the Westerns are to us in the States. I need to stop by and ask a few questions to find out more about this and maybe get some decent recommendations. More to Come.  FWIW. 

Best Wishes, 

Bruce


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