# Common Place Names



## Big Don (Sep 28, 2011)

In another thread Tez mentioned the Channel Islands, referring, of course to the islands closest, geographically, to her. Having grown up in Ventura, CA, when I hear Channel Islands, I think of a completely different group of islands, also called the Channel Islands. I mentioned this in a PM, and it occurred to me that there are a whole lot of places on Earth that share a name:

London, is of course the capital of the UK, but, were you aware there are EIGHT Londons in the US?
Moscow is the capital of Russia, but, did you know there are Fourteen Moscows in the US?
As well as being a city in Ireland there are more than 14 Dublins in the US. 
Were Americans of the past so lacking in imagination that they repeated names over and over? Or was there some other factor(s)?


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## David43515 (Sep 29, 2011)

Often times they were immigrants who were homesick. Or maybe they were hoping to create a place as beautiful and well-known as the one they named it for. Look at the names of some of our eastern states for example:New York, New Hampshire,New Jersey. They`re all named after parts of England. In fact the whole area is reffered to as New England. Then there`s New Zealand, the New Hebridees, New Guinea. (I couldn`t tell you where the old ones are)

And Just down the road from me in Hokkaido is a city called _Kitahiroshima,_ or "North Hiroshima" if you want. It was founded in the 1800`s by settlers from Hiroshima.
One of my favorites though is The Simpsons town of Springfield......I beleive there`s a Springfield in just about every state.


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## Carol (Sep 29, 2011)

I think its kind of interesting that the settlers in a new world named towns after places (or people) that were familiar to them.  

By contrast, the indigenous tribes named places by description. 

Potomac - place of burning pines (council fires)
Massachusetts - tribe of the great hill
Connecticut - long river
Quebec - obstructed current


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## elder999 (Sep 29, 2011)

Carol said:


> I think its kind of interesting that the settlers in a new world named towns after places (or people) that were familiar to them.
> 
> By contrast, the indigenous tribes named places by description.
> 
> ...



My favorite: _Manhattan_. *Place where we got drunk last night.* :lfao:


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## Carol (Sep 29, 2011)

elder999 said:


> My favorite: _Manhattan_. *Place where we got drunk last night.* :lfao:



Oh you're bad


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## elder999 (Sep 29, 2011)

Carol said:


> Oh you're bad



No, really. The island was a swamp, and pretty useless to the natives, who mostly lived along the Hudson, on Long Island and up in the Bronx (named for the farmer who settled there, _Bronck_-it's "Bronck's" farm) but it was just what the Dutch were looking for to get beaver fur. After a night of partying, and prior to the famous "$24 of trinkets" deal, the Dutch asked what the place was called, to which they replied, _ Manahactanien_  or _place of inebriation._


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## Tez3 (Sep 29, 2011)

I like the stories from Australia where supposedly a white man asked an Aborigine what the hill was called he could see in the distance, the Aborigine replied that in his language it was a hill, so the white man thinking it would be good to call it by it's Aboriginal name gave it that, so now you have a hill called a hill.

I live close to Richmond, the very first one, older than the one in Surrey even.

I think many settlers and immigrants hadn't wanted to leave their homelands but were forced to due to poverty or oppression so named places for a sense of home.


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## Carol (Sep 29, 2011)

elder999 said:


> No, really. The island was a swamp, and pretty useless to the natives, who mostly lived along the Hudson, on Long Island and up in the Bronx (named for the farmer who settled there, _Bronck_-it's "Bronck's" farm) but it was just what the Dutch were looking for to get beaver fur. After a night of partying, and prior to the famous "$24 of trinkets" deal, the Dutch asked what the place was called, to which they replied, _ Manahactanien_  or _place of inebriation._



Hmmm, you sure?   _Menahan _means island, and the suffix_ -itan _referrs to the water's current.  _Menahanitan _simply means an island formed by the water's current.  No, not useful to the natives at all, so they had little to say about it :lol:


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## elder999 (Sep 29, 2011)

Carol said:


> Hmmm, you sure? _Menahan _means island, and the suffix_ -itan _referrs to the water's current. _Menahanitan _simply means an island formed by the water's current. No, not useful to the natives at all, so they had little to say about it :lol:



Another attribution has it as meaning _island of many hills,_ -of course, I don't think that's a particularly apt name for Manhattan, though it does have a couple of hills. One that escapes me has something to do with trees, but the one I posted, _Manahactanien, _really does mean "place where we get drunk."

At least, that's the way it was always told to me.....:lfao:


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## elder999 (Sep 29, 2011)

The "Hudson River" is another interesting one-some natives called it _Shattemuc,_ or "river that flows both ways," others called it _Mahkannittuk _or _Muhheakunnuk,_ which mean, well....._river that flows both ways..._ :lfao: The west branch of the Hudson was called_ Skanehtade- _this is where the city of Schenectady gets* its *name-it's got something to do with sand, I think....the Iroquois and Mohawks still call the Hudson _Cahohatatea,_ which means.......*river that flows both ways.*:lfao:

I miss home, lately......


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## Carol (Sep 29, 2011)

Awww, you need to come a bit further east too...





Pemigewasset by Sikaranista, on Flickr


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## Sukerkin (Sep 29, 2011)

It is a fascinating subject, the origin of names, particularly in countries that have been around for a while. English place names can have roots millenia deep and have transformed many times over the centuries.

Here is a good site for digging into the past: http://www.nottingham.ac.uk/~aezins//kepn.php


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## Sukerkin (Sep 29, 2011)

I note that my town isn't given much in the way of detail on the site I linked above, so to show how even simple names can have complex backgrounds here is the history:


It is generally agreed that Stone gets its name from the cairn of stones or "stanas" (Anglo-Saxon) that was built by Queen Ermenilda according to Saxon tradition over the grave of her sons circa 670AD. It was her husband, King Wulthere of Mercia who lived at a fortress at Bury Bank. He was a pagan but converted to Christianity in order to marry Ermenilda, once married he reverted to paganism and refused to allow his sons Wulfad and Rufin to be brought up as Christians, though he allowed his daughter Werburgh of Trentham to follow her mother's religion. The two princes were converted to Christianity by Chad of Lichfield whom they met when chasing down a white hart, which led them to the hermit. It was the pagan Werebode, an unsuccessful suitor of Werburgh, who told their father of their conversion. Wulthere swore to kill his sons and rode after them, killing Rufin at Burston and Wulfad at Stone. Later, filled with remorse Wulthere allowed his Queen to build a priory on the site of their sons' grave. A reredos of the slaying and Wulthere's conversion stands in St.Dominic's church.


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## Carol (Sep 29, 2011)

Sukerkin said:


> It is a fascinating subject, the origin of names, particularly in countries that have been around for a while.  English place names can have roots millenia deed and have transformed many times over the centuries.
> 
> Here is a good site for digging into the past: http://www.nottingham.ac.uk/~aezins//kepn.php



I have a question for you, Mark.  The town of Berlin, New Hampshire.  Named after the capital of Germany.  How would an Englishman such as yourself pronounce it?  Is the stress on the first syllable or the last?  

Reason why I ask is that Berlin, Germany we (Americans) pronounce with the stress on the last syllable (Bur-LINN), but Berlin, NH is pronounced with the stress on the first syllable and little emphasis on the last (BURR-len). I know this used to be a British way of pronouncing the town, but I wasn't sure if it still was.  Just curious


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## Sukerkin (Sep 29, 2011)

Aye, we (or at least I) pronounce Berlin with the rising primary emphasis on the first syllable and falling emphasis on the second - BURR Linn


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## Monroe (Sep 29, 2011)

The natives had Toronto. Simcoe renamed it York. But the way people differentiated York, Canada and New York, USA was Muddy York. York voted in the 18th Century to change the name to Toronto because they liked the native name better and to stop being called Muddy York. Every spring, I can see why it was called Muddy York. 

Canada means "village." When explorers asked what this place was called, they were told Canada. Looks like something was lost in translation. 

The geography confuses a Brit. London, Cambridge, Milton, Chatham, Exeter, Norfolk are all in the wrong direction. But a lot of the place names are Native I think. Etobicoke, Mississauga, Wasaga, Penetanguishine, Magnetawan, Petawawa, Kawartha, Powassan.


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## frank raud (Sep 29, 2011)

To be fair, Muddy York was never the official name of present day Toronto, just a disparaging nickname. Of course, there are still a few disparaging nicknames for that city.

Drive through New York, you can find Mexico and Lebanon(supposed to be named after the city in Conn., not the country). There is also a Lebanon in New Hampshire.


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## Monroe (Sep 29, 2011)

frank raud said:


> To be fair, Muddy York was never the official name of present day Toronto, just a disparaging nickname. Of course, there are still a few disparaging nicknames for that city.
> 
> Drive through New York, you can find Mexico and Lebanon(supposed to be named after the city in Conn., not the country). There is also a Lebanon in New Hampshire.



I realize Muddy York was a disparaging name. But is was entrenched deeply enough that the people wanted to distance themselves from it. If you see Toronto during Spring thaw, you can see how difficult it would be to live down that name.


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## elder999 (Sep 29, 2011)

Sukerkin said:


> It is a fascinating subject, the origin of names, particularly in countries that have been around for a while. English place names can have roots millenia deep and have transformed many times over the centuries.
> 
> Here is a good site for digging into the past: http://www.nottingham.ac.uk/~aezins//kepn.php



It's one of my many hobbies, when it comes to place names._ "Countries that have been around for a while?" _A little of that unconscious chauvinism showing, Marc? _English place names can have roots millenia deep, and have transformed many times over the centuries?

_(And please, I mean no offense. You can't help it, and I can't help pointing it out....:lfao

Long before Captain Cook arrived in the Hawaiian Islands, those people had names for the place and its geological features-names with _roots millenia deep....._

My mother's mother was Wind River Shoshone, _White Knives Clan_. They were called that because they have a special place to get this white flint that they made knives from-before the Europeans came-hell, maybe before eastward migration reached the Ohio River Valley-not long ago, I got taken to that place. I won't name it here, because.....well, I just can't-but it's a name that has roots _millenia deep,_ and, since not many others call it by that name I won't use, it's been _transformed many times over the centuries._

The Dine-most call them Navaho-believe that they came to the Four Corners region of the southwest from the north on the wings of a great bird. Interestingly, the dialects of the Pacific Northwest and Inuit people are Athabascan, just as the Dine is, so the Navaho *did* come from the north-and most of them these actually believe they *walked* all that way. Anyway, in the Four Corners region there is a rock formation called _Tsé Bit&#700;a&#700;í_, or "rock with wings" for the winged bird that brought them there.It's associated with many, many legends, rituals and ceremonies-it's sacred. When Europeans first saw it, they called it "the Needle," but by 1870, they were calling it "Shiprock," for its vague resemblance to a 19th century clipper ship. So, it's name has _roots millenia deep_ and _have transformed over time.

_I'm not even going to get into all the native names for places back east, where I came from-I've already mentioned some which clearly would have_ "roots millenia deep" _and to have _"transformed over time."_

Where I grew up, there are a lot of hills. One of them was used during our Revolutionary war-a war of "colonial treason," if you like-as the place to hang the British and those that sympathized with them. The road that goes over it, now, to Continental Village, where the Continental Army camped , is called _Gallows' Hill Road._ Of course, I'm sure the natives had another name for it, if they ever had a name for it, but I think it's lost-as sometimes happens to things that have _roots millenia deep._


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## oftheherd1 (Sep 29, 2011)

I have heard that Chicago is a mispronounciation of an Indian word meaning smelly river or creek.

Missouri was named after the Missouri tribe, and reportedly means "town of the large canoes."


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## Carol (Sep 29, 2011)

oftheherd1 said:


> I have heard that Chicago is a mispronounciation of an Indian word meaning smelly river or creek.



The original word _She-ka-kwaa_ can mean either onion or skunk.   Its definitely a name meaning something smelly :lol: 

The French transcribed the city as "Chicagoua", where the Ch- is soft (like sh--) and the -ou- sounds like a w in English...we might transcribe it as She-ka-gwa had we heard it.   

English speaking people read the French "Chicagoua" and it became "Chicago"


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## Bill Mattocks (Sep 29, 2011)

What I appreciate the most are place names in the USA that have been absolutely massacred by their current inhabitants.  This gives me great joy.

I lived in "San Jose, Illinois" once.  Pronounced "San Joe-z" and not "San Ho-zay."

I also lived near "Papillion, Nebraska."  Pronounced "Pap-ill-yun," not "Pap-eee-yon."

It's "Detroit (Dee-troyt)" and not "Deh-twah."

I enjoy that we rudely steal place names from other countries and then obliterate the pronunciation.   Hehehehe.


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## crushing (Sep 29, 2011)

I was born in Fremont and now live near Whitehall.

I've known about this town:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell,_Michigan
But this one is new to me:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell,_California


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## frank raud (Sep 29, 2011)

Monroe said:


> I realize Muddy York was a disparaging name. But is was entrenched deeply enough that the people wanted to distance themselves from it. If you see Toronto during Spring thaw, you can see how difficult it would be to live down that name.


You know it was a disparaging name, I know it was a disparaging name. But when large sections of the rest of the world believe we Canadians live in Igloos, cowering in fear from the polar bears roaming our city streets, it would be nice to clarify little points of our history for them.


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## Big Don (Sep 29, 2011)

frank raud said:


> You know it was a disparaging name, I know it was a disparaging name. But when large sections of the rest of the world believe we Canadians live in Igloos, cowering in fear from the polar bears roaming our city streets, it would be nice to clarify little points of our history for them.


You mean you don't :erg: ?
Now there is no reason for me to visit Canada.


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## Steve (Sep 29, 2011)

Seattle was named after Chief Sealth.  The town in which I work, Auburn, WA, was originally named Slaughter, WA after the locals decided that it was just downright embarrassing.  

It's an interesting mix around here of native names, such as Puyallup, Sequim, Hoquiam, Issaquah, Yakima and a dozen others, and places like Kent, WA.


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## elder999 (Sep 29, 2011)

Carol said:


> The original word _She-ka-kwaa_ can mean either onion or skunk. Its definitely a name meaning something smelly :lol:
> 
> The French transcribed the city as "Chicagoua", where the Ch- is soft (like sh--) and the -ou- sounds like a w in English...we might transcribe it as She-ka-gwa had we heard it.



EOh, those French. :lol:

A French Jesuit missionary, saw natives playing what they called "the Creator's game" in 1637. The game was played on a great field with hundreds of men per side, all wielding hooked sticks and chasing after a handmade ball. Perhaps because the sticks resembled a bishop's crook, or _crosier_, or perhaps because it reminded him of field hockey, _le jeu de la crosse_, rather than call the game _baggataway_  the Jesuit  called it *lacrosse*, and it eventually evolved into the only sport truly native to the North American continent. And we have several places, Lacrosse, Indiana and La Crosse, Wisconsin among them, where settlers and explorers saw the game played, and thus the place was named......


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## Big Don (Sep 29, 2011)

stevebjj said:


> places like Kent, WA.


Named after newspaper man Clark?


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## Carol (Sep 29, 2011)

elder999 said:


> EOh, those French. :lol:
> 
> A French Jesuit missionary, saw natives playing what they called "the Creator's game" in 1637. The game was played on a great field with hundreds of men per side, all wielding hooked sticks and chasing after a handmade ball. Perhaps because the sticks resembled a bishop's crook, or _crosier_, or perhaps because it reminded him of field hockey, _le jeu de la crosse_, rather than call the game _baggataway_  the Jesuit  called it *lacrosse*, and it eventually evolved into the only sport truly native to the North American continent. And we have several places, Lacrosse, Indiana and La Crosse, Wisconsin among them, where settlers and explorers saw the game played, and thus the place was named......



....and no places were named after Baggataway (or any of its spelling variants).  The French only saw the sport, they didn't see how baggataway was used to settle human conflicts, or carry deeper spiritual meaning.  The natives here told stories about how the Northern Lights meant their ancesters were playing Baggatway in the spiritual realm.

And don't even get me started on the abuse of the number 8...


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## granfire (Sep 29, 2011)

Big Don said:


> Named after newspaper man Clark?



HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

You have not read 'Fool' by Christopher Moore!


But speaking of Kent (drove by there plenty of times...)

How about Auburn? I know of at least 2....

And Oxford.....


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## granfire (Sep 29, 2011)

stevebjj said:


> Seattle was named after Chief Sealth.  The town in which I work, Auburn, WA, was originally named Slaughter, WA after the locals decided that it was just downright embarrassing.
> 
> It's an interesting mix around here of native names, such as Puyallup, Sequim, Hoquiam, Issaquah, Yakima and a dozen others, and places like Kent, WA.



Is Puyallup Faire over yet?


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## Tez3 (Sep 30, 2011)

Catterick was named by the Romans.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catterick,_North_Yorkshire

York (the original one!) just down the road was called Eboracum by the Romans then Jorvik by the Vikings.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/York


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## Big Don (Sep 30, 2011)

granfire said:


> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
> 
> You have not read 'Fool' by Christopher Moore!


Yes, yes, I have. What a great concept.


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## David43515 (Sep 30, 2011)

Well  Lake Erie, the big and little Erie rivers in Ohio are all named after the local Indians&#8216; word for "panther". You`d never know it now because they haven`t been around for over 100 years, but Ohio used to be crawling with panthers and black bears. I remember reading a journal where one of the settlers in what is now Cinncinnatti mentions a hunter killing 5 black bears in one day.


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## frank raud (Sep 30, 2011)

Kitchener, Ontario used to be Berlin, but the name was changed in 1916 du to anti-German sentiments at the time. Swastika Ontario has resisted any name changes, as the town had the name before the Nazis co-opted the word.


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