# Are we as a Society really advanced?



## KenpoTess (Aug 20, 2004)

I have been reading alot of books lately taking place in the 1100's to 1300's.. and this led me to start thinking .. With all the technology we have today in the 21st century.. Are we as advanced as we think we are?    For instance.. if, heaven forbid, should we go through some catastrophic disaster, losing our ability to rely on Technology, phones, transportation, internet, tv, electricity, running water.. you get the idea,  How many of us would actually be able to survive?  Back in the 'olden days' people knew how to forage for food, *sure there were plenty of deaths etc in the finding out what was good and what was poisonous*, they learned how to make soap, take flax and make cloth, mold metal into tools, sheer a sheep and use the wool.. the list goes on and on.. Even today, people who know the 'trades' use technology to their advantage.. electric tools, etc.   In my thoughts.. I realized yes, we have advanced ... but have we lost knowledge to make room for what?
I'm thinking progress has taken a side trail in some areas.

Just some ramblings..






~Tess


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## Ceicei (Aug 20, 2004)

Yes, even now, there are some people who don't know how to keep a basic vegetable/fruit garden or repair their own clothes.  They expect everything to come from the stores...

- Ceicei


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## Feisty Mouse (Aug 20, 2004)

I think that as humans we are very malleable depending on what our environment asks of us, to survive.  The way we have it now in the "first world" countries, we can become very insulated from the natural environment, and become a master at, oh, a certain kind of computer code.  Yes, if our environment changed radically - no more electricity - we'd be in trouble, but some people would be flexible, I think.  I know I'd have trouble with no indoor hot showers.  

I think it's an interesting question.  I thought about that some when I was at one of those "recreate the past" villages with people demonstrating how to makes nails for doors, or for shoeing a horse.  Hmmm.


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## The Kai (Aug 20, 2004)

For a society to advance there must be a part of the population that is free from surviving and can go on withj the march of progress!  Historically, yes most "common" folk could farm, make and mend clothing, build a house, tan leather, preserve thier own food.  Yet they also could not read (by and large or do arithmatic).

Now, are we advanced from your ancestors spirtually, morally or ethically?   That (in my book would be progress)
Todd


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## Cryozombie (Aug 20, 2004)

Tess... when society falls apart, we are going to come looking for you to set up and run bartertown, but only If I get to be the announcer in the thunderdome...

Hehe.  

I think "Survival" now would be easier than survival back then... providing you were quicker to loot survival goods.

  %-}


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## Firona (Aug 20, 2004)

We as humans are prone to being reverant of age. The older you are the wiser you are is how it goes from birth, simply because we are raised by our parents (wow that was a huge breakthrough) the way I see it people always find older things to be more fascinating or they believe that they are better because of this pre-programed mindset. Truthfully if we were all open minded then theoretically we would evolve as a species but unfortunately that is not the case. If we always put our elders up on a pedestal (not that being respectful is a bad thing but to a degree) and if we keep putting younger people down (cough not that that ever happens) we are just going to keep falling behind in our potential to grow and attain new ideas. Well...I guess that was my two cents :idunno:


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## Flatlander (Aug 20, 2004)

KenpoTess said:
			
		

> .. if, heaven forbid, should we go through some catastrophic disaster, losing our ability to rely on Technology, phones, transportation, internet, tv, electricity, running water.. you get the idea, How many of us would actually be able to survive?


Interesting that the people living in 2nd and 3rd world countries would be the individuals best equipped, in terms of skills and experience, to deal with this.


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## KenpoTess (Aug 20, 2004)

Yeppers.. I think without the internet and libraries for people to go 'look up the how-to's', the more advantaged countries would be floundering.. How many people of today actually know how to use a simple compass?  Do kids still learn survival type skills in boy/girl scouts?  Do kids even still join the scouts?  Could the households of suburbanites and city dwellers manage to grow a garden to sustain a family or figure out how to make soap ?  Could I?   It's pretty well determined that 3rd world countries would be better off than the majority of developed ones.  The Amish, Mennonite, Farmers, and other down-to-earth communities would be innundated with human-kind begging for help~!!


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## Rich Parsons (Aug 20, 2004)

KenpoTess said:
			
		

> I have been reading alot of books lately taking place in the 1100's to 1300's.. and this led me to start thinking .. With all the technology we have today in the 21st century.. Are we as advanced as we think we are?    For instance.. if, heaven forbid, should we go through some catastrophic disaster, losing our ability to rely on Technology, phones, transportation, internet, tv, electricity, running water.. you get the idea,  How many of us would actually be able to survive?  Back in the 'olden days' people knew how to forage for food, *sure there were plenty of deaths etc in the finding out what was good and what was poisonous*, they learned how to make soap, take flax and make cloth, mold metal into tools, sheer a sheep and use the wool.. the list goes on and on.. Even today, people who know the 'trades' use technology to their advantage.. electric tools, etc.   In my thoughts.. I realized yes, we have advanced ... but have we lost knowledge to make room for what?
> I'm thinking progress has taken a side trail in some areas.
> 
> Just some ramblings..
> ...



Any sufficiently advanced science is indistinguishable from magic.

How many people really know how their phones work, or the TV or Cable, or the Internet or Microwaves, or your car? Not as many as you might think, yet they can all use them.   Even those who have the skills and tools and the bunkers for when the big EM pulse hits and destroyes every thing.  





			
				Technopunk said:
			
		

> Tess... when society falls apart, we are going to come looking for you to set up and run bartertown, but only If I get to be the announcer in the thunderdome...
> 
> Hehe.
> 
> ...



Barter Town is a cool idea. I just wonder who will show up


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## loki09789 (Aug 21, 2004)

"survival" with the current state of things in 1st world countries means computer skills (ATM's, Email, Internet, Keyboarding) and other skills that combine social and technology manipulation/cooperation/integration.

Change the tools if the power goes out and the idea is the same, only the details change.

I think the difference between a '1st' world and '2nd/3rd' world responses would be the social.  We would be shocked and horrified at the situational necessity to make brutal decision where the less developed cultures have been making them a lot longer and more regularly.

Consider the right decision to make when you have limited food supplies:  Do you prioritize the rations to support the strongest so that they can scout/scavange/hunt better for more food or do you shift the food distribution to support the weaker ones (sick, children, elderly, injured) so that they can recover, build up and contribute to the group later on?

Kill the dog/horse for food or use it to guard and hunt/haul and transport?

Or the ugly, gruesome decisions of field medicine:  Amputate or treat?  Tournaqette or stitches?

Survival of the self or of an ideal at the expense of the self:

You have a crying baby/injured member that is slowing you down that could give you away to looters/predators (human or other), what do you do? Sprint out and cut your loses or keep the group together at all costs?

Making "field decisions" knowing that there isn't any perfect answer sucks.

I would hope that being a jack of all trades, but a master of none would come in handy under those circumstances for survival.  Having a strong, united community with diverse skills/powers that are delegated well can't be over rated whether it is wolves in the night or keeping a company/country afloat.


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## Fight with attitude (Aug 21, 2004)

When the industrial revolution took place the people were predicting it would give them more time for living ...instead the opposite happen and the people got longer work days.

I think this has hurt our moral and ethical progress.


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## KenpoTess (Aug 21, 2004)

Technopunk said:
			
		

> Tess... when society falls apart, we are going to come looking for you to set up and run bartertown, but only If I get to be the announcer in the thunderdome...
> 
> Hehe.
> 
> ...



You got it  John~!  We shall have to organize MA Army.. *nodding*  Oh man can you imagine.. Each system of the MA's conjoined in one mass army.. *twitch* *giggling*


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## Cryozombie (Aug 21, 2004)

I think the thing to remember too is this...

if you have a "Me for Myself" attitude, we probably would die out...

But... 

If like minded individuals banded together for the common good and pooled their skills, well...

I can't make soap from nothing... but I have friends who can... They might not be able to skin a deer, but I can, etc... Its all about how able you are to team up with people whos skills compliment your own...


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## mj-hi-yah (Aug 21, 2004)

Did anyone see the show last year where the three families had to prepare to survive a winter in a log cabin with NO modern conveniences? I think of all the families it was predicted that only one (and they were a young couple without children) of the three might survive, because by the end of the filming the others did not grow enough food or chop enough firewood. The funniest thing to me was how ugly the women said they all thought they looked, because they had no time to worry about grooming with all the hard work they had to do. We're spoiled! NO HAIR DRYERS!!!!


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## Bammx2 (Aug 21, 2004)

nah....the amish really have the market cornered


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## Andrew Green (Aug 21, 2004)

Omg, no hair dryers, how did some women people survive...

Anyways, Yes I'd say we are advanced, I had a longer response written, but my computer died, so here is the abridged version.
Our society is structured such that we have a very high reliance on other people, allowing for a far more specialized work force.  Look around you right now, how many people had some part in getting you the simple things you see around you right now?  Probably 1000's.  Contrast that answer with what you would have given a 1000 years ago.

Advanced Technology is a product of an advanced society.

Survival skills have been brought up, and it is true that most do not have the skills necessary to survive 1000 years ago.  But how many people 1000 years ago would be able to work a department store?  operate a computer?  Drive a car?  READ?  These are skills we take for granted which would be as foreign to people a 1000 years ago as surviving in there world is to us.

But of course it all depends on what you mean by "advanced"...


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## Genin Andrew (Aug 22, 2004)

I think society as a whole has advanced, technologically and also intelligence and general knowledge wise. However people... we as people (not all but most) are going backwards...people these days *shudder*

I think the warriors of the 16th to 18th century had it down pretty good.Sure life was hard, but it was real Living...

much respect
-andrew


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## OULobo (Aug 23, 2004)

I think about this sometimes too. I always daydream about what it would be like if we had a cataclysmic(sp) plague, kinda like what happened in "The Stand". There would be no support stucture, but most of the knowledge would still be available, in the people that are left and the books that are around. I still see basic survival skills as something that we should learn in tandum to our modern skills. Things like sewing, agriculture, animal husbandry, simple carpentry, basic metallurgy, ect. are all things that I have tried to educate myself on and continue to learn about. Knowledge is king.


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## KenpoTess (Aug 23, 2004)

That's exactly my line of thinking~!  
When I see all the 'knowledgeable' people graduating HS and college without an inkling to real life skills,unless their parents or others taught them, (balancing a checkbook, changing a tire,cooking etc)  much less the majority not knowing simple basics, sewing by hand, identifying plant life and more.   Sure if there was a catastrophic event, there maybe people who are skilled in the ways of survival, but who's to say they will be willing to Share their knowledge? *shrugs*  
I'm just rambling..


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## Feisty Mouse (Aug 23, 2004)

For a sort of alternative possible view of what would happen in a different kind of plague - I recommend Stanislaw Lem's Memoirs Found in a Bathtub.  He's a Polish sci-fi writer who I really enjoy.  The book is about documents found in a secret government military hideout after a paper blight sweeps the world, destroying all paper items, and erasing libraries.  But the protagonist is trapped in this paranoid society under a mountain at the time, without contact to the outside world....  It's strange, but very interesting, I think.


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## Brother John (Aug 23, 2004)

...and the Amish shall rule the world!!!

Ye Brother
John


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## Cryozombie (Aug 23, 2004)

Well, all I know is...

I am happy to say, if society as we know it ended today, I would have the tools and knowhow to go on living...



Well... except maybe in making medicine... I only know a few medicinal herbs and such... I might be in trouble if I got seriously ill.


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## Bammx2 (Aug 23, 2004)

yep..................

stiiiiiiiill with the amish on that one.


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## DeLamar.J (Sep 12, 2004)

KenpoTess said:
			
		

> I have been reading alot of books lately taking place in the 1100's to 1300's.. and this led me to start thinking .. With all the technology we have today in the 21st century.. Are we as advanced as we think we are?    For instance.. if, heaven forbid, should we go through some catastrophic disaster, losing our ability to rely on Technology, phones, transportation, internet, tv, electricity, running water.. you get the idea,  How many of us would actually be able to survive?  Back in the 'olden days' people knew how to forage for food, *sure there were plenty of deaths etc in the finding out what was good and what was poisonous*, they learned how to make soap, take flax and make cloth, mold metal into tools, sheer a sheep and use the wool.. the list goes on and on.. Even today, people who know the 'trades' use technology to their advantage.. electric tools, etc.   In my thoughts.. I realized yes, we have advanced ... but have we lost knowledge to make room for what?
> I'm thinking progress has taken a side trail in some areas.
> 
> Just some ramblings..
> ...


I have the perfect thing to go along with your post. 


The paradox of our time in history is that we have taller buildings but shorter tempers, wider freeways, but narrower viewpoints. We spend more, but have less, we buy more, but enjoy less. We have bigger houses and smaller families, more conveniences, but less time. We have more degrees but less sense, more knowledge, but less judgment, more experts, yet more problems, more medicine, but less wellness. 

We drink too much, smoke too much, spend too recklessly, laugh too little, drive too fast, get too angry, stay up too late, get up too tired, read too little, watch TV too much, and pray too seldom. We have multiplied our possessions, but reduced our values. We talk too much, love too seldom, and hate too often. 

We've learned how to make a living, but not a life. We've added years to life not life to years. We've been all the way to the moon and back, but have trouble crossing the street to meet a new neighbor. We conquered outer space but not inner space. We've done larger things, but not better things. 

We've cleaned up the air, but polluted the soul. We've conquered the atom, but not our prejudice. We write more, but learn less. We plan more, but accomplish less. We've learned to rush, but not to wait. We build more computers to hold more information, to produce more copies than ever, but we communicate less and less. 

These are the times of fast foods and slow digestion, big men and small character, steep profits and shallow relationships. These are the days of two incomes but more divorce, fancier houses, but broken homes. These are days of quick trips, disposable diapers, throwaway morality, one night stands, overweight bodies, and pills that do everything from cheer, to quiet, to kill. It is a time when there is much in the showroom window and nothing in the stockroom. A time when technology can bring this letter to you, and a time when you can choose either to share this insight, or to just hit delete. 

Remember, spend some time with your loved ones, because they are not going to be around forever. 


Remember, say a kind word to someone who looks up to you in awe, because that little person soon will grow up and leave your side 

Remember, to give a warm hug to the one next to you, because that is the only treasure you can give with your heart and it doesn't cost a cent. 

Remember, to say, "I love you" to your partner and your loved ones, but most of all mean it. A kiss and an embrace will mend hurt when it comes from deep inside of you. 

Remember to hold hands and cherish the moment for someday that person will not be there any more. 

Give time to love, give time to speak, and give time to share the precious thoughts in your mind. 

AND ALWAYS REMEMBER: Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, 
but by the moments that take our breath away. 
"George Carlin"


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## AaronLucia (Sep 12, 2004)

I like the whole chrome rim idea..

You have a caveman who sees a shiny rock, he runs around hollering,
"Shiny, shiny!"

You have a man who sees a Chrome rim on a car and says "Bling, bling!"

So..how much have we really changed?


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## Feisty Mouse (Sep 12, 2004)

I'll give another vote to the Amish.  Then maybe they'd cross-breed with other sects and get rid of some of those genetic inbreeding issues that any small, genetically isolated group has.


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