# Horrific Karate referee



## AndyM (Mar 7, 2008)

Unbelievable behaviour by a referee;

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Zg09bGacp0A


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## kaizasosei (Mar 7, 2008)

unacceptable display of violence from a ref...good thing he had the sense to not follow through with the kick and stomp.
the first atemi was really cheap too.  
i can see that he may have needed a touch of roughness, but to openly **** kick an unsuspecting contestant is completely out of line in my opinion.

j


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## terryl965 (Mar 7, 2008)

Yes that is one terrible referee.


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## AndyM (Mar 7, 2008)

Reading through the comments on youtube, it appears that the ref is the sensei of the student in white, who is clearly losing the bout.
There's a longer version of it here;

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=kJdg6CBd64s&feature=related


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## Fiendlover (Mar 7, 2008)

wow that was completely unacceptable, shameful, and dishonorable.  that is against any code we try to uphold amongst martial artists.


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## Empty Hands (Mar 7, 2008)

What, does he think this is 1963 or something? 

Seriously though, the stories from the seniors about tournaments back then are a little...rough.  One of my senior instructors had to use force as a ref more than once.  He said there were something akin to riots a few times.


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## DavidCC (Mar 7, 2008)

Assault & Battery.  I'd call the cops, and get a lawyer.


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## newGuy12 (Mar 7, 2008)

DavidCC said:


> Assault & Battery.  I'd call the cops, and get a lawyer.



That would be the best thing, in my opinion.  I'm surprised that that didn't "clear the benches" myself.  Haha -- that guy with the staff was ready to get himself a piece.


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## Carol (Mar 7, 2008)

Is the fighter in white the ref's personal student?  Reading through some of the Spanish comments, it looks like the student in white and the ref are both from a karate line while the student in black is from a kung fu line.   

A few of the comments I read indicate that the student in white was losing, but the student in black was breaking some of the rules...which was why the ref flipped out and started beating up the kid.

I say "kid" because the fellow in black is only 17.


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## tellner (Mar 7, 2008)

David has it nailed. The moment he lands the first hit he's not a referee. He's a criminal. What's more, by stomping the kid's head when he's on the ground he is using deadly force in his assault. That's serious prison time, and he'd deserve every second of it. At the very least he should be stripped of his rank and never ever allowed to participate in sanctioned activities again.

It doesn't matter if the guy in black was breaking rules or not. The ref needs to be tossed so hard he bounces twice.


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## MA-Caver (Mar 7, 2008)

I found it just as shocking as everyone else. Definitely dishonorable. Even if the student in black was being dishonorable by continually attacking the student in white after the set there was *no excuse* for the ref/teacher/sensei whatever! to go and do that. 
Higher ranks should know control better than their students IMO no matter how dirty it gets. What is the point of attaining higher ranks if you can't control yourself? 
It'd be nice to see/read the follow up on this incident and know the "rest of the story". If anyone gotten arrested, disciplined or what. 

Thanks to those who can read Spanish to help clear the initial misconceptions.


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## Carol (Mar 7, 2008)

Whoa guys...calm down.   I wasn't in any way trying to justify the ref's behaviour in any way....just describing what I read. 

If it were me personally, I'd go for assault, battery, perhaps even child abuse if that applied to a 17 year old.


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## punisher73 (Mar 7, 2008)

At first I thought it was going to be the vid clip on youtube where it's a MMA type match and the guy tries to take it out on the ref and the ref choke slams him.

Student of yours or not, this was not a case of the ref stepping in after action was called to protect the other guy.  This was just a case of criminal assualt.


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## theletch1 (Mar 7, 2008)

Carol Kaur said:


> Whoa guys...calm down. I wasn't in any way trying to justify the ref's behaviour in any way....just describing what I read.
> 
> If it were me personally, I'd go for assault, battery, perhaps even child abuse if that applied to a 17 year old.


I don't think anyone thought you were, Carol.  The misconceptions were simply what the relationship between the student(s) and ref were.  I'm pretty sure that everyone here has learned enough about your own sense of honor and dignity to know better than to think that you would condone anything like that.


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## tellner (Mar 7, 2008)

http://www.elmanana.com.mx/notas.asp?id=45270

Translated by The Fish:




Home  Tools  Babel Fish Translation  *Translated Text   
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



* 

*Babel Fish Translation*



Help 
* In English:* 	   	    	    It generates controversy video of golpiza of professor of karate  The presumed aggression of the professor of karate Isao Nakamuro Fushiki to a young competitor, has generated and social rejection controversial CITY VICTORY, Tamaulipas. - The presumed aggression of professor of karate Isao Nakamura Fushiki to a young competitor, has generated and social rejection controversial, because the scene was raised Internet, through YouTube, in where it takes more than 5 thousand 800 visits in a few days.  The impressive video lasts of 00:45 seconds, and was raised in February of the 2008 YouTube, by a cybernauts who identifies itself like tzimarron.  Nevertheless, it is not known exactly when it happened the aggression.  Until now, the authorities of the Independent University of Tamaulipas (UAT) have not showed any position with respect to the aggression, although they have filtered versions to the means of which Isao Nakamura let belong a year ago and means to that institution.  Nevertheless, the Universal one detected in the official vestibule of the UAT the photography of Nakamura like part of the personnel in City Victory, like professor of Karate Do.  In the images of YouTube a confrontation between two competitors, the one of white indumentaria and another dark is appraised; Isao Nakamura appears as réferi and uses necktie.  In second number eleven of the video, Nakamura arrives by the back from the young person from dark clothes and agrede.  First he demolishes it and later he kicks to him in the head with the left leg and soon with the right he steps on it.  Although the university authorities have not talked about to the fact, the citizens if they have shaped his opinions through the Internet and some are the following ones:  Also the instructor of martial arts and local regidor of the Town hall of City Victory, Enrique Lara Tijerina, defended Nakamura and doubted the veracity of the images.  "I am years old knowing Isao and has matured with the passage of time, I I do not doubt that Isao at its time when younger has had some situations, but as person today deserves the respect of the public", Lara said.  Interviewed person by the vestibule of the news www.infonorte.net, on the aggressions of judges and instructors in this type of competitions, Lara responded:  "All the sports that are of contact, require of the respect of their rules, and no of its modalities the violence is accepted mainly when it is in a competition, with professional people".  Before the controversy that has caused the subject, sources of the UAT indicated that for a year and means Nakamura no longer it has been working in that institution, and that therefore, the director Jose Loyal Maria Gutiérrez, nor the Direction of Sports will not give any declaration on the matter.


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## MA-Caver (Mar 7, 2008)

> Lara responded: "All the sports that are of contact, require of the respect of their rules, and no of its modalities the violence is accepted mainly when it is in a competition, with professional people". Before the controversy that has caused the subject, sources of the UAT indicated that for a year and means Nakamura no longer it has been working in that institution, and that therefore, the director Jose Loyal Maria Gutiérrez, nor the Direction of Sports will not give any declaration on the matter.


Contact sparring between the opponents is one thing. For a referee to step in and attack (without warning) and using non-regulation footwear (hard soled street shoes) is another. 
How they can they "doubted the veracity of the images" when it's right there clear as day, without jerky camera and blurred focus? 
That he "no longer working in that institution isn't enough IMO. It was as David, Carol, Tellner, & Punisher said... a clear case of assault. 
Just shameful.


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## tellner (Mar 7, 2008)

I'm betting that if he is working for the University it won't be for long.


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## Carol (Mar 7, 2008)

> Ante la polémica que ha causado el tema, fuentes de la UAT señalaron que desde hace un año y medio Nakamura ya no trabaja en esa institución, y que por lo tanto, el rector José María Leal Gutiérrez, ni la Dirección de Deportes no darán ninguna declaración al respecto.



They aren't saying that Nakamura was given leave as punishment for his actions.  They are simply saying they can't comment on Nakamura because he isn't an employee of their institution and hasn't been for a year and a half.  

If Nakamura was employed at the time the incident happened, then they are covering their glutes.


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## DavidCC (Mar 7, 2008)

it looked to me like the guy in the white swung the first late hit, and the guy in black retaliated for that.

But, dang, that looked like a tough tournament didn't it!  no gloves, full contact to the face... and thsoe guys are underbelts too.


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## Carol (Mar 7, 2008)

DavidCC said:


> it looked to me like the guy in the white swung the first late hit, and the guy in black retaliated for that.
> 
> But, dang, that looked like a tough tournament didn't it!  no gloves, full contact to the face... and thsoe guys are underbelts too.



There is a comment on you tube from someone that says he was there...

* elrobotito * 				 (14 minutes ago)  				Show 				Hide 			
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  			 	Marked as spam 	 			Reply      					| Spam  	

 			 				 					I was there.
The problem was that the battle was already finished and both competitors continue punching each other as a revenge of being defeated and punched back again several times.
After a while, the kung-fu fighters tried to use their weapons. They were fake thanks God.

El problema fue que en la batalla ambos competidores se continuaron dando golpes deshonestamente por haber perdido y en respuesta al golpe, y asi sucesivamente.
Despues los de kungfu intentaron usar sus armas de exhibicion.


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## DavidCC (Mar 7, 2008)

Carol Kaur said:


> After a while, the kung-fu fighters tried to use their weapons. They were fake thanks God.


 
is it bad that I think this is pretty funny?


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## newGuy12 (Mar 7, 2008)

You let the Hung-Ga people jump into the fray and someone will get a broken nose!  No joke!  That's right, good that they were "play" weapons and not the real broadswords and all!  

Haha!  That reminds me of a story that someone told on youtube -- he was at a tournament with none other than the great GM Parker, and a melee broke out!  The escrima people were beating others with their sticks!  The police were called.  Nobody messed with the American Kenpo people, though!  The story goes that they took one look at the patch on their uniform and then left them alone!

Also, I like the term 'cybernaut'!


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## Empty Hands (Mar 7, 2008)

newGuy12 said:


> The story goes that they took one look at the patch on their uniform and then left them alone!



:bs1:

Was it an EPAK guy telling the story?


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## Andrew Green (Mar 7, 2008)

Empty Hands said:


> :bs1:
> 
> Was it an EPAK guy telling the story?



I have to agree with the flag, if you believe the stories every style tells, all of them used to be feared by everyone else.


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## newGuy12 (Mar 7, 2008)

Empty Hands said:


> :bs1:
> 
> Was it an EPAK guy telling the story?



I have found the video here.  You can view it for yourself devoid of my interpretaton:






I have been told other stories about people backing off of the kenpo guys at open tournaments, because the practice nasty techniques, not only for competition, but they regularly practice all sorts of nasty ways, eye gouges, kicking to knees, and so on,  That is in the curriculum!  And so, people do not want trouble with them.  

You can judge this for yourself.


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## newGuy12 (Mar 7, 2008)

Doh!  Perhaps I was wrong on one point... you must read the following comment, the last one on the page:



> Hi Lee
> I remember the event well I can also remember the offending instructor and the ranting and raving. I was standing between him and the kids. He swore at the kids looked at my patch and turned away quickly into the crowd. Powerfull patch saved the kids that day.
> Mark...take care.



So, it may not have been true.  I cannot say, of course, either way.  I was not there.


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## MA-Caver (Mar 7, 2008)

DavidCC said:


> it looked to me like the guy in the white swung the first late hit, and the guy in black retaliated for that.
> 
> But, dang, that looked like a tough tournament didn't it!  no gloves, full contact to the face... and those guys are underbelts too.


That was another thing about the video that got me saying ??HUH?? full blown contact, full force, no gloves or pads at all and a hard floor to boot. Seems to me this isn't a regular tournament or at least a sparring match. 
Something isn't-just-quite-right here.


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## Blindside (Mar 7, 2008)

MA-Caver said:


> That was another thing about the video that got me saying ??HUH?? full blown contact, full force, no gloves or pads at all and a hard floor to boot. Seems to me this isn't a regular tournament or at least a sparring match.
> Something isn't-just-quite-right here.


 
You can see point flags of the corner judge in the side of the picture, they are signalling after a clash and a "solid point" (however they are defining that) is scored.  Must be nice to live in a country where lawsuits aren't considered a career choice.

Lamont


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## Ninjamom (Mar 7, 2008)

Yeah - if you watch the match, the referee is in control through the entire proceeding, and there don't appear to be any warnings/deductions given.  whatever the 'rules' might have been, it appears they were (mostly) being followed.

In the longer version of the same bout , showing 3+ minutes  instead of just the final few seconds, it becomes clearer that rules, points, scoring were all being obsereved.  Several times a player turned his back on the other and the fight did NOT continue.  At the very end, it appeard that one player turned his back, but then turned back into the fight, which is when the final altercation ensued.


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## AndyM (Mar 8, 2008)

I was talking to an older Karateka who 'knows' Nakamura last night.

He said that clip is from about 10 years ago, but he'd not heard about the incident.

What he _did_ say, was that it was completely out of character with the man that he _knew_, so something must have made him flip.


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## ackks10 (Mar 10, 2008)

AndyM said:


> I was talking to an older Karateka who 'knows' Nakamura last night.
> 
> He said that clip is from about 10 years ago, but he'd not heard about the incident.
> 
> What he _did_ say, was that it was completely out of character with the man that he _knew_, so something must have made him flip.




yea like maybe he was late getting his meds,,,:headbangin:


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## tellner (Mar 10, 2008)

If he's still in the organization, the organization deserves nothing but contempt, derision and hostility from ethical people. If he hasn't done time, well, the Mexican justice system has its problems. If relatives of the kid haven't had him shanked or shot he should light up a bushel basket of incense to Compassionate Kwan Yin because he's living on borrowed karma.


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## Archangel M (Mar 10, 2008)

That man should have been arrested.


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## ackks10 (Mar 10, 2008)

tellner said:


> If he's still in the organization, the organization deserves nothing but contempt, derision and hostility from ethical people. If he hasn't done time, well, the Mexican justice system has its problems. If relatives of the kid haven't had him shanked or shot he should light up a bushel basket of incense to Compassionate Kwan Yin because he's living on borrowed karma.



you know, you have a good  point thereirateph3


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## thetruth (Mar 20, 2008)

Regardless of the situation or the relationship between the referee and the student that was a gross over reaction by the ref and he should have been arrested. It was assault pure and simple.  I would have charged him and sued him,

Cheers
Sam:asian:


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## tellner (Mar 21, 2008)

ackks10 said:


> you know, you have a good point thereirateph3


 
I'm a fairly primitive kinda guy on some levels. It has its ups and downs.


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## AndyM (Mar 21, 2008)

What I got from the chap who 'knew' Nakamura was along the lines of;

Nakamura speaks Spanish fluently.
He's not just a Japanese tourist there, he's lived in Mexico for aeons.
Something was said, along the lines of 'bugger your mother', which he wasn't expected to understand.
Also, he's 'old school', apparently this kind of thing used to be a lot more common.

What I like, is how effective he was.
Bang bang bang Job done.
Not condoning it.


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## kaizasosei (Mar 21, 2008)

quite unfair, so not a big challenge, but he did really kick that guys ***.  the victim,in my opinion, truly does have a wrong attitude about karate.  because, the last swing where he tried to hit the opponent, it seemed like he was trying to hit with all his force.  that is not correct.  in karate, they stress control. this is not only to avoid injuries, but also a matter of attitude.  someone that goes all out in a competition is displaying a spirit that is very easily crushed in the face of real aggression.   

still it would have been a little more fair if the ref had at least let a kiai or something to at least somehow get his attention or communicate the feelings before walking up and smacking him down completely out of the blue-


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## IcemanSK (Mar 21, 2008)

yeah, that is certainly a reason to call in lawyers & the police.


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## Twin Fist (Mar 23, 2008)

Ok,
Anyone who has ever been center ref at a  tourny has more than likely had to jump in-between two people who just didnt listen when you called "BREAK"....

But this is retarded.

If the guy in Blue had attacked the ref, that would be different.

As is? ref needed a butt kicking and/or jail time.


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