# Hapkido Founder Video



## Black Belt FC (Aug 31, 2004)

Has anyone seen a video with Choi, Yong Sool in it? Heard that the American Hapkido Association has a video for sale with him in it instructing class.


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## Chris from CT (Sep 1, 2004)

Black Belt FC said:
			
		

> Has anyone seen a video with Choi, Yong Sool in it? Heard that the American Hapkido Association has a video for sale with him in it instructing class.



Hey Lugo. 
Martial Talk member "Masterswife" (aka Joannie Wollmershauser) could give you all the info on picking up a copy and I believe Todd Miller may have one himself.

Here is a clip that may or may not be from the tape, but it is footage from Master Mike and has Dojunim Choi working with GM Lim and Master Mike.  

http://user.chol.com/~jungki74/jungki-1/doju1.asf

Take care.


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## Black Belt FC (Sep 2, 2004)

HI Chris,

Thanks for link it looks good. I try to get in contact with American Hapkido Association-Joannie Wollmershauser, but their phone is always busy and they will not return my email. Master Miller please email me about buying a copy from you, also I will get back to you on your last email.


Lugo


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## glad2bhere (Sep 2, 2004)

I had pictures of Choi teaching me his entire curriculum in my suitcase on the way back from Korea. They had my first Black Belt as well as my 9th Dan certificate awarded directly by Choi himself. There were also signed affidavits from Takeda attesting to Chois education directly from him and a special blessing bestowed by the emperor of Japan on Choi for his long years of service in Manchuria organizing the first successful social model that will produce sustained world peace. 

Unfortunately my suitcase with all of its contents were taken by someone when I reached Union Station here in Chicago. Truly a wicked, rippin' shame, yes?   

Best Wishes, 

Bruce


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## Master Todd Miller (Sep 2, 2004)

Master Miller please email me about buying a copy from you, also I will get back to you on your last email.


I do not have the video for sale.  The video is Doju Nim Choi teaching Master Mike W. Yellow belt requrements of the Jungki Kwan.

Bruce,

I am not sure why you posted that last post?

Take care


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## glad2bhere (Sep 2, 2004)

Dear Todd: 

My sense is that at some level, the tapes under discussion like so many of the artifacts about Choi Yong Sul are simply not going to be produced, except in communications like this, thats all. Its like the Kodokai, who may--- or may not---- have a record of Choi Yong Sul attending lessons with their group. It doesn't really matter because the Kodokai does not let outsiders view their rosters. In this way there may--- or may not-- be tapes, books, certificates, letters etc etc etc floating around that have just about anything on them up to and including Tiger Lily's recipe for chicken salad. I can claim to have a map showing the location of Hoffas' body, and might even sell copies to the gullible. Until somebody produces authenticated resources its all just so much grist for the mill. FWIW. 

Best Wishes, 

Bruce


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## iron_ox (Sep 2, 2004)

Hello all,

Just got done watching said video, in Chicago.  They exist all right.  In addition, there is additional footage of Doju nim Choi on the video series produced by GM Rim of Washington DC (I have those too...right on the shelf...).

Sincerely,
Kevin Sogor


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## Master Todd Miller (Sep 2, 2004)

In this way there may--- or may not-- be tapes, books, certificates, letters etc etc etc floating around that have just about anything on them up to and including Tiger Lily's recipe for chicken salad. I can claim to have a map showing the location of Hoffas' body, and might even sell copies to the gullible. Until somebody produces authenticated resources its all just so much grist for the mill. FWIW. 

Fact:  Video tape of Doju Nim Choi exits, I and many others have seen it.  Authenticated or not.


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## glad2bhere (Sep 2, 2004)

Good Deal!! Glad to hear it. Now, I guess all that remains is to know what, exactly, the implications are for people who train in Hapkido arts? If I am understanding this right, there is a tape, authentic or not, which shows Choi and Wollmerhauser together. Thats fine: I see no problem with people having their picture taken together. I am just not sure what the average person is suppose to conclude. Is this a special validation that the Wollmerhauser tradition is somehow authenticated in turn? Is there some validation I might understand from this? Actually this is a very important question for me. If I am to spend 6 days being taught by Kim Yun Sang-- Chois' longest recorded student of 22 years--- maybe I should be looking at my time with him through different eyes, yes? Or how about the seminar in Chicago with Lim Hyun Su? Afterall I had my picture taken with him, didn't I? Is there some special validation I can draw from that? In fact, I have had my picture taken with Dr. Kimm, Master West, John Pelligrini, and Rudy Timmerman. Maybe I am missing something here, yes? 

I suppose there is some novelty to having tape of Choi Yong Sul "in action". Can't fault that. After all, I have a photograph of the Lusitania tied up at Liverpool only a little bit before it was sunk by german torpedoes. I can imagine that would have some value to someone, even if not with anyone here.  

Best Wishes, 

Bruce


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## Master Todd Miller (Sep 3, 2004)

Kim Yun Sang-- Chois' longest recorded student of 22 years.

Bruce,

The information you have is incorrect!  GM Lim, Hyun Soo was DJN Choi's longest running student.  Another thing to keep in mind is that many people trained with DJN Choi but not full time, they had to travel and train for a weekend or maybee a little longer.  You really need to look at the whole picture. :whip: 

Take care


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## Master Todd Miller (Sep 3, 2004)

Is there some special validation I can draw from that?

I have never said that this video tape validates anything although it does proove that Master Mike did get a lesson with DJN Choi.  Bruce you know as well as I do that there is a whole lot of BS out there in the Hapkido arts.  I hope you have a great time at the Young Sul Kwan, it should be a great time for you.

Take care


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## glad2bhere (Sep 3, 2004)

ooooopppss!  My Bad. You are right, of course. I'm attributing the 22 years to the wrong person! 

As far as the trip, I'm putting the finishing touches on plans. Oughta be a great flight---- coming back!!  I guarentee we will have a lot to talk about on the 20th!  :asian: 

Best Wishes, 

Bruce


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## Chris from CT (Sep 3, 2004)

glad2bhere said:
			
		

> Now, I guess all that remains is to know what, exactly, the implications are for people who train in Hapkido arts?
> If I am understanding this right, there is a tape, authentic or not, which shows Choi and Wollmerhauser together. Thats fine: I see no problem with people having their picture taken together. I am just not sure what the average person is suppose to conclude. Is this a special validation that the Wollmerhauser tradition is somehow authenticated in turn? Is there some validation I might understand from this? Actually this is a very important question for me. If I am to spend 6 days being taught by Kim Yun Sang... maybe I should be looking at my time with him through different eyes, yes? Or how about the seminar in Chicago with Lim Hyun Su? Afterall I had my picture taken with him, didn't I? Is there some special validation I can draw from that? In fact, I have had my picture taken with Dr. Kimm, Master West, John Pelligrini, and Rudy Timmerman. Maybe I am missing something here, yes?
> 
> I suppose there is some novelty to having tape of Choi Yong Sul "in action". Can't fault that.



Just like pictures, it doesn't validate anything.  Or even, why should it?  The video tape alone without having GM Lim or Master Mike on it is something we can all gain some insight with.  

Probably one of the best things about viewing the tape is just seeing Dojunim Choi doing techniques and not just hearing about them through someone else.  This is a way of seeing the source of what we train in, in action and seeing the differences & similarities.  We can also see from the video tape the principles he applies to his technique.  Very few of us have ever met the man, no less ever seen him working technique.  Sure we all have pictures of him doing technique and stories we have heard, but this is the closest thing to actually being there. 

As far as levels of importance I view it like this (lowest --> highest)...
Hearing about technique --> Seeing pictures of technique --> Seeing video of technique --> Feeling technique

I will never get the chance to feel Dojunim Choi's technique, but I have experienced some of his students' (GM Lim, Hyun-Soo, Master Chae, Hung-Joon, Master Kim, Mon-Soo, GM Chang, Chin-Il, GM Ji, Han-Jae), which means alot to me.  Now with this video we can take what we have experienced and see it applied the way the source did it when he was alive.   

I guess for some it would be just a "novelty."

Take care.


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## glad2bhere (Sep 3, 2004)

Dear Chris, 

I think this is very much an intelligent and --- if I can say so----- a much more fair approach to these things. I am very sure that my reactions (over-reactions??) to these things is fed by the years of abuse and misuse we have all witnessed time and again. I am sure we all recall at least one corpulent individual who never failed to get his face in the frame, later to use the event as a way of somehow validating a case. I have a thought of what I would like to do with those many pictures, but I'm afraid of the incredible amount of karma I would incur.    As long as such media remain fingers pointing in a particular direction, and not authentification for a particular take on the Hapkido arts, I'm sure they can be worth their weight in gold. Used otherwise, well---- you know how that path goes. 

Best Wishes, 

Bruce


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## iron_ox (Sep 3, 2004)

Hello all,

Not sure I get it.  What is there to validate?  EVERY SINGLE person of standing in Hapkido (and almost all the other "similar") arts from Korea traces their training back to Choi, Yong Sul.  In the thread is a link to the video of the only westerner (Grandmaster Mike Wollmershauser) to ever train with Choi, for an hour, day, whatever, the video speaks for itself.  So what is there to validate?  Hapkido traces its roots to Choi - then stops - nothing before - at all - in real human terms - nothing.  

Here we have a video of the founder of Hapkido actually doing technique - including kicks, that a certain group in Florida say do not exist in the art, where is there any evidence of anyone else - monks, maternal grandparents, royal court grandaddys - answer - they did not exist so there is no evidence to validaye them - but here is a video - available for all to buy from the AHA that shows the founder in action...

Sure, people in Korea may have been doing all kinds of martial arts - we know the Japanese left several behind as fact, like Kendo, and Judo, but the material that was "delivered" by Choi was unique to him - and as such we have no record of anyone predating him with the same material.

Nice clip to watch. There is even a running commentary from Grandmaster Wollmershauser - I not sure what else one would need to validate this material.

Sincerely,

Kevin Sogor


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## Disco (Sep 3, 2004)

Chris, is there another link you can post to the Choi video? Everytime I click on the one that is posted, it takes me off martial talk and reboots my AOL connection. Thanks in advance for any help.

Mike Dunn


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## Chris from CT (Sep 3, 2004)

Disco said:
			
		

> Chris, is there another link you can post to the Choi video? Everytime I click on the one that is posted, it takes me off martial talk and reboots my AOL connection. Thanks in advance for any help.
> 
> Mike Dunn



Hey Mike.
That is the only link for that one I have, but maybe try one of these...

1) go to...  http://jungkikwan.com/
There are other vids on it, but perhaps it will work for you from that page.

2) open a new window and then copy and paste the original link in the new window.

3)  open Internet Explorer while you have your AOL running and then copy and paste the original link in the address bar.

4) open whatever video program you have (Windows Media Player, Quicktime, etc.) then hit "file, hit "open URL,"  and then copy and paste the original link there.

I'm shooting from the hip on this one bro.  I hope it works for you.  

Take care.


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## Paul B (Sep 3, 2004)

Hi all!

I'm new here...seems like a nice board!

I would just like to say that "validation" is subjective at best,and I, for one,appreciate any and all chances I get to see something like this. So...thanks!


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## glad2bhere (Sep 3, 2004)

Dear Kevin: 

"....Not sure I get it. What is there to validate? EVERY SINGLE person of standing in Hapkido (and almost all the other "similar") arts from Korea traces their training back to Choi, Yong Sul. In the thread is a link to the video of the only westerner (Grandmaster Mike Wollmershauser) to ever train with Choi, for an hour, day, whatever, the video speaks for itself. So what is there to validate? Hapkido traces its roots to Choi - then stops - nothing before - at all - in real human terms - nothing. 

Here we have a video of the founder of Hapkido actually doing technique - including kicks, that a certain group in Florida say do not exist in the art, where is there any evidence of anyone else - monks, maternal grandparents, royal court grandaddys - answer - they did not exist so there is no evidence to validaye them - but here is a video - available for all to buy from the AHA that shows the founder in action..." 

As always you and I will continue to agree to disagree about the nature of the Hapkido arts prior to Choi. I think its part of the healthy exchange regarding Korean martial traditions. I also agree that there is a certain comfort level in actually watching Choi Yong Sul executing his techniques. 
Where I get nervous is 

a.) When people refer to materials that are not produced for people to examine and 

b.) Materials that ARE produced are represented as saying something beyond what is simply contained in the media. 

Chris had it exactly right. When such things are presented---- and they SHOULD be presented--- then they need to be taken for what they are. I remember the issues that Sheya stirred up about Rim, and the turmoil that other person stirred up about Bae and Oh See Lim. Way too much Spin Doctoring to suit me. Call me over-sensitive but I still remember the self-appointed authority who took it upon himself to decry what he had determined to be non-authentic credentials and material in the Hapkido arts. Whatever. As long as things remain at face value and don't have views read into them, I'm fine with it. FWIW. 

Best Wishes, 

Bruce


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## Master Todd Miller (Sep 3, 2004)

a.) When people refer to materials that are not produced for people to examine and 

b.) Materials that ARE produced are represented as saying something beyond what is simply contained in the media. 

 I agree Bruce, This has been the case to over inflate your rank and position beyond what your teacher has granted to you!!

Not all do this of course but we all could name more than a few!

Take care

 :asian:


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