# No love for the ridgehand?



## zDom (Mar 1, 2007)

One of things I've often wondered about MMA is,

Why don't MMA fighters use ridgehands to the head? (At least, I haven't SEEN any used ...)

&#8226; The ridgehand strike is one of the most powerful hand strikes there is (IMO, _THE_ most powerful hand strike). It very well may be the ONLY hand strike that hits as hard as a kick. I can throw it full power with no concern of injury.

&#8226; Unlike a lot of other TMA techniques, the ridgehand is EASY to learn and to do.

&#8226; It comes in from the same direction as a hook, but has more range. Granted, it is easier to block than a hook because it is a straight(er) arm, but it is no easier to block than a roundhouse kick &#8212; and a WHOLE lot easier to throw!


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## terryl965 (Mar 1, 2007)

I believe the ridgehand is an illegal blow by the rules set forth for MMA competition or atleast I was told that.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Mar 1, 2007)

I wonder as I have not heard that.  However, I will say this that it is an incredibly powerful technique and when done well lends to great knockouts. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 (that is from first hand knocking people out experience)


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## Andrew Green (Mar 1, 2007)

It's legal as far as I know, it's just not used.  Hammer fists are though, ridge hands I would not really consider as being a good weapon.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Mar 1, 2007)

Andrew Green said:


> It's legal as far as I know, it's just not used. Hammer fists are though, ridge hands I would not really consider as being a good weapon.


 
The funny thing is Andrew is that I have knocked out or stunned just about everyone that I have spared with one.  So it definately is effective in my book.  I see it as kind've like the overhand right. (another favorite of mine)  Very big motion and leaves you open if you miss but when you land. (ouch :erg

The idea is to throw either when the opponent cannot defend as their weight is on the heels, etc.  If you do that then you can certainly use it.  Heck I have played around with it for years against boxer, kickboxers, MMA, BJJ, TKD, TSD, etc.  All with the same result.  However through it at the wrong time and you are looking at some hurt.


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## Andrew Green (Mar 1, 2007)

that's kinda the problem, if it goes wrong, I see it leading to injuring yourself, esspecially the fingers.  The strike I find best lands with the wrist, not the meaty mart of the hand anyways, and with gloves on that makes even more sense.  So why not close the hand and call it a hammer fist?  Basically the same strike, but protecting the fingers a little better.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Mar 1, 2007)

Andrew Green said:


> that's kinda the problem, if it goes wrong, I see it leading to injuring yourself, esspecially the fingers. The strike I find best lands with the wrist, not the meaty mart of the hand anyways, and with gloves on that makes even more sense. So why not close the hand and call it a hammer fist? Basically the same strike, but protecting the fingers a little better.


 
For some reason throwing the hammer fist that way's slows it down a bit. (just my impression)  However if you do not know when to throw it you are going to get hammered when you miss.  I use quite a few different ways to set it and the overhand right up.  The Superman punch ala Hughes is similar as well in that you are open when coming in.  However throw it at the right time and the payoff is big.


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## Andrew Green (Mar 1, 2007)

Well, one thing about MMA is it is a whatever you can make work within the rules is fair game.  Eventually I'm sure someone will give it a try if it hasn't already been done.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Mar 1, 2007)

Andrew Green said:


> Well, one thing about MMA is it is a whatever you can make work within the rules is fair game. Eventually I'm sure someone will give it a try if it hasn't already been done.


 
It has been done in the past.  Keith Hackney comes to mind with Emanuel Yarborough.  Personally I would prefer the overhand right as you are a little less open and yet the ridgehand gives as big or more of a payday when it hits.


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## FearlessFreep (Mar 1, 2007)

Are you talking the swinging ridgehand or the straight ridgehand?


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## zDom (Mar 1, 2007)

Not familiar with that terminology, Freep ... define 'em for me.

Andrew: ridgehand is with the thumb side of the hand, with the weapon being the side of hand, from the knuckles back, or the wrist.

Injury to the fingers really isn't a risk, AFAIK.

FWIW, we consider hammer first to be the pinky side of the hand.

I don't know why the ridgehand (open) hand position is more powerful...but it is (at least for me) than a clenched fist using the thumb side of the hand.

My experience with the ridgehand is much as Brian described: it is a knockout technique. In controlled sparring, it is one of the techniques that "get away" from people and end up hitting much harder than intended.

Different than the overhand right, though, in that overhand right comes in at the front of the head/face while the ridgehand comes in at the side of the head, like a hook.

Target the temple or the nerve center below the year for the best results, but even a shot to the thick part of the skull is stunning.


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## Andrew Green (Mar 1, 2007)

Sorry, got my ridges and knifes mixed up


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## FearlessFreep (Mar 1, 2007)

We use two ridgehands

The swinging ridgehand (not a formal name, just a description) comes from the side.  You twist your shoulders and kinda lead the strike with your right (striking side) shoulder.  The arm drags a bit behind and you swing it wide to strike the target from the side.  You can also invert it a bit to come down on  the target (so you could swing it down on a clavicle, for example).  Similar to a hook.  Also against the temple.

The straight ridgehand comes straight from the chin (our punches come straight from the chin, not swinging out  in a hooking motion).  The straight ridge hand follows the same path.  The only differnce is  that since you are thrusting your flat hand at the target, you turn your hand out a bit so you are still striking with the thumb side of the hand from a straight arm.  A favorite target pf this one is the brachial shot on the side of the neck/throat


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## Odin (Mar 2, 2007)

zDom said:


> One of things I've often wondered about MMA is,
> 
> Why don't MMA fighters use ridgehands to the head? (At least, I haven't SEEN any used ...)
> 
> ...


 

for one im a fighter and i have no idea what move were talking baout here ( : 

thats proberly the biggest reason. ( :


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## zDom (Mar 2, 2007)

Odin said:


> for one im a fighter and i have no idea what move were talking baout here ( :
> 
> thats proberly the biggest reason. ( :



Aw, don't worry about it. If you haven't seen it before, it probably isn't "effective" 

/end friendly sarcasm

Joking aside, I'll see what I can do to get a short vid clip of me smacking a heavy bag with one to post.


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## kempo-vjj (Mar 2, 2007)

So a straight ridge is somewhat of a spear hand motion. I may as well just spear in the throat for that matter. I like the ridge hand as a finishing strike, or I use it with a two handed front choke escape, kinda like the karate kid painting up and down motion.


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## matt.m (Mar 2, 2007)

I personally love the ridgehand.  It is very dynamic indeed.


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## kidswarrior (Mar 3, 2007)

zDom said:


>  The ridgehand strike is one of the most powerful hand strikes there is (IMO, _THE_ most powerful hand strike). It very well may be the ONLY hand strike that hits as hard as a kick. I can throw it full power with no concern of injury.


 
OK, please teach an old dog something here, zDom (or whoever else wants to contribute). I learned, have used, and have taught the ridgehand for a long time--but to mostly soft targets. To the head in sparring--OK, I'll grant that for points (but I don't really care about points anymore, just my personal style), and the other guy has padding on his head anyway, so my hand is protected. 

So I guess this brings me to the point of confusion (like I don't live there, all the time ). Could you expound a little on just what makes this so powerful as a head strike; and, how the small bones in the strking hand are not punished more than the opponent's hard head?

Thanks, appreciate it.

~kidswarrior


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## zDom (Mar 3, 2007)

kidswarrior said:


> Could you expound a little on just what makes this so powerful as a head strike; and, how the small bones in the strking hand are not punished more than the opponent's hard head?



I guess the power is all from the hip motion + pectoral pulling across.

I use the wrist area for hard targets. I've seen people break concrete with ridgehands (I prefer not to, personally!)


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## kidswarrior (Mar 3, 2007)

zDom said:


> I guess the power is all from the hip motion + pectoral pulling across.
> 
> I use the wrist area for hard targets. I've seen people break concrete with ridgehands (I prefer not to, personally!)


 
OK, thanks.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Mar 3, 2007)

zDom said:


> I guess the power is all from the hip motion + pectoral pulling across.
> 
> I use the wrist area for hard targets. I've seen people break concrete with ridgehands (I prefer not to, personally!)


 
Definately you get alot of power from that hip + pectoral and that it is also one big large motion. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  I do not use the wrist, mostly the side of the hand above the thumb.  I have however on occasion when shooting in too fast hit someone with the forearm.  The result predictably was the same in that they were either disoriented or knocked out.  Basically the ridgehand is a big motion therein lies one of the reasons it has alot of power.  It is also a reason why *you had better hit* *them* because otherwise you will be open because of that large motion.


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## Carol (Mar 3, 2007)

Interesting.  My hammerfist has always been stronger than my ridgehand, but I'm guessing I'm not doing it with the same mechanics as the rest of you folks.  

If anyone has a clip that would be great


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## Brian R. VanCise (Mar 3, 2007)

Carol the Hammerfist is a great technique and also very good for not damaging your hand.  The ridgehand, well let's just say it may have a big payload but you could damage your hand if you do not execute it right.


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## flashlock (Mar 3, 2007)

Carol Kaur said:


> Interesting. My hammerfist has always been stronger than my ridgehand, but I'm guessing I'm not doing it with the same mechanics as the rest of you folks.
> 
> If anyone has a clip that would be great


 
I agree-I think the hammerfist is more powerful, and you're not going to break your hand as easily as in the ridge-hand.

There's nothing really special in the ridge-hand--it's just a big hook at a slightly different angle (due to the odd striking-area).  For me the ridge hand is not a very good choice because I think it is too slow, and it seems to me you could break your hand much easier (or even your wrist!).

I've been hit by a ridgehand once in my life during TKD sparring, but I had dropped my guard--it never happened again, thankfully!

I've never really been able to pull a hammerfist off, either.  It seems like one of those "special moves" you have to be thinking of before you throw it.  I don't know how Brian V. pulls it off so much, but I don't find it works for me.

So, no love for the ridgehand from this boy!


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## crushing (Mar 3, 2007)

Carol Kaur said:


> Interesting. My hammerfist has always been stronger than my ridgehand, but I'm guessing I'm not doing it with the same mechanics as the rest of you folks.
> 
> If anyone has a clip that would be great


 
I think the ridge hand puts the power into a narrower area than a hammerfist, which may make it more effective for some strikes, such as those to the neck.

The difference between the hammerfist and the ridge hand is kind of like the difference between the sides of a maul head for splitting wood.  You can generate the same amount of power swing the maul, but one side concentrates the power along an edge.  Yes, the maul example greatly exagerates the difference.








I found this ridge hand clip on YouTube.  Executed this way does take a long time to deliver and would seem easy to block as well as leave yourself open as discussed.  I'll have to check out a straight ridge hand as described by FeerlessFreep.


[yt]gSqgI6nzosE[/yt]


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## matt.m (Mar 3, 2007)

Hip, pec, delt, lat.  Go ahead and tighten your core when you do it as well.  Go ahead and see the good stuff.  I don't know, I just hate the knife hand strike and have always liked the ridgehand better.  

To do the ridge hand incorporates a lot of the same kind of body mechanics as the set up of the jump spinning crescent.  There is just so much force behind the technique.


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## zDom (Mar 4, 2007)

The above clip (underneath the maul pic) give the basic idea.

The way I learned/execute it however has some extra "ooomph" due to a "snap" at the end.

That is, I shoot it forward palm up, then rotate the wrist over so it hits with the thumb side as you pull through with the hip rotatation.

I'll work on getting some footage Tuesday to post Wednesday.


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## kidswarrior (Mar 4, 2007)

zDom said:


> That is, I shoot it forward palm up, then rotate the wrist over so it hits with the thumb side as you pull through with the hip rotatation.
> 
> I'll work on getting some footage Tuesday to post Wednesday.


 
Cool. Sounding like a combination of jab and then body motion of a hook. Would love to see it.


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## Marginal (Mar 4, 2007)

I think the ridgehand does benefit structurally vs the hammerfist. It's way easier to knock someone around, (if they try to block) or arrest motion with a ridgehand simply because the elbow and shoulder lock out at a certain point which gives it more rigidity at full extension than the hammerfist. Not really comparable techniques IMO. One's for raw power (hammerfist) the other's as much to redirect or stop the opponent's motion. More like an insert than a pure strike if that makes any sense.


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