# "Batman" gets shot by police officer.



## Grenadier (Apr 17, 2008)

But...  Not Bruce Wayne.  Instead, it's a 6' 250 lb thug.  

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,351502,00.html



> *FRESNO, Calif.    A police officer shot and killed a 17-year-old high school student Wednesday after authorities said the teenager clubbed the officer with a baseball bat on the packed, urban campus.*
> 
> The officer fired at the student shortly before noon, after the Roosevelt High School sophomore allegedly came from behind and struck the officer in the head with a crude wooden baseball bat, Fresno Police Chief Jerry Dyer said.
> 
> ...


 

This is why I don't like magazine disconnect "safeties" on my pistols.  Even if the magazine fell out of my Glock, at least it's still good for a single shot.  

This also shows the importance of training with your backup weapon, too.


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## MA-Caver (Apr 17, 2008)

I agree that the secondary weapon prevented the officer from further harm. It's sad that he had to take the life of a kid like that. Defending himself was righteous. But, I'd still like to know the circumstances leading up to the event and why the kid was swinging the bat. Hopefully there'll be more to this story revealed. 
Tragic but imo, a righteous shoot.


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## Sukerkin (Apr 17, 2008)

The comment of one parent, at the end of the article, made me sigh and raise an eyebrow.  The officer had just been struck on the head with a club, wielded by someone bigger than he was and his primary sidearm had just malfunctioned on him.

What was he supposed to do?  I don't believe that the attacker would have politely waited whilst the policeman regathered his composure and the fact that he made such an attack in the first place shows that the aggressor was not amenable to reason.

It's awful for those that knew him (and no pleasant thing for the officer either) but you have to wonder what was happening in the teenagers head to trigger such an incident?


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## theletch1 (Apr 17, 2008)

I'll add a sad shake of the head to your sigh and raised eyebrow, Mark.  Attempted murder is attempted murder regardless of the weapon used.  Clubbing someone with a "crude baseball bat" (why they didn't just say club is beyond me) is just as deadly as a shot from a handgun.  Seems that the moment there is gunpowder involved everyone looks at it differently.  At 6' and 250 pounds this was no "kid".  He was a deadly threat to the officer and the officer defended himself as he should have.  Had this been another student that had been attacked the headline would have been different.


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## Andy Moynihan (Apr 17, 2008)

Well let's see now:

*Before anything else we are aware of a disparity of force( the size difference between attacker and officer)

*The attacker then brought a bat into the equation( assault with a deadly)

* he then *struck the officer in the head* with said weapon, at which time there is no sane argument to the fact he has used deadly force upon the officer.

*this person then chose to come at the officer a *second* time while the officer was on the ground, at which time the officer stopped the argument.


I'm sorry. I don't care what anybody else says, that kid BOUGHT what happened to him.


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## Big Don (Apr 17, 2008)

I'm from and in Fresno. The news is nuts with this one right now. Seems to me, it may have been Suicide by cop.


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## Andy Moynihan (Apr 17, 2008)

That could very well be a possibility if no reason can be found for the attack( not that it makes the officer's response any less justified).


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## thardey (Apr 17, 2008)

Andy Moynihan said:


> Well let's see now:
> 
> *Before anything else we are aware of a disparity of force( the size difference between attacker and officer)
> 
> ...



Echo that.

While I would like to know what could have been done differently to avoid this result, particularly what emotions were involved, I can't ask for this officer to be judged by more than what I would like to be judged by.

Ability? - Check - The guy had size and a weapon.
Opportunity? - Check - The officer was down and wounded.
Imminent Jeopardy? - Having already attacked once, I'd say his intention was pretty clear.
Preclusion? - Check - The officer was on his last resort, getting away, tazing, handcuffing, or de-escalating the situation was no longer an option.

(For those who don't know the AOJP perspective on use of force, see here.)

As far as the parent's quote -- I'm sure there were plenty of quotes in support of the officer, but they didn't make the news. Probably judged "too insensitive" regarding the dead guy. Either that, or they wouldn't get as much attention if they hailed the officer as a hero.


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## punisher73 (Apr 17, 2008)

Gotta love the armchair quarterbacks that think all of us LEO's are trained in some "super secret vulcan deathgrip" technique where we just magically absorb all damage to ourselves and then can dispatch an attacker with a touch of the finger with no harm to the bad guy.

Guess, we should amend the adage.... "Never bring a knife OR A BAT to a gun fight".


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## KenpoTex (Apr 17, 2008)

Grenadier said:


> This is why I don't like magazine disconnect "safeties" on my pistols. Even if the magazine fell out of my Glock, at least it's still good for a single shot.
> 
> This also shows the importance of training with your backup weapon, too.


 
Exactly. 

The officer was lucky he wasn't killed or knocked unconscious by the first swing. Good on him for *staying in the fight*!



> Silvia Carrillo, whose daughter is a sophomore at Roosevelt High, said *the shooting did not seem justified.*
> "My son and my brother went to school here too, and nothing like this ever happened. *I think this wasn't enough for him to kill the kid*," she said


<sheep voice> Baaaaaa... </sheep voice>
stupid *****


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## tellner (Apr 17, 2008)

Sounds like the officer exercised perfect judgment on this one starting with the decision to carry a backup gun. 

The guy with the costume and baseball bat? "Self-inflicted wound to tha haid"


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## Big Don (Apr 17, 2008)

From the local (Fresno) ABC station:





> Using a bat that Dyer says the teenager fashioned into a lethal weapon, investigators claim Carrizales snuck up from behind, delivering a blow to the head that left the Officer Perry with this two inch gash.


Doesn't a bat come fashioned as a lethal weapon?


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## Andy Moynihan (Apr 17, 2008)

Yeah but that doesn't sound sensational enough, don't you see?


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## TheOriginalName (Apr 24, 2008)

thardey said:


> Preclusion? - Check - The officer was on his last resort, getting away, tazing, handcuffing, or de-escalating the situation was no longer an option.


 
A bit of a side here but a question that i would like to raise for those of us unfamiliar with the technology. 

Why would tazing at this point no longer be an option? 
My understanding - and please excuse my ignorance - is that they have a range of approximately 10-20ft. If this is the case why would the use of such a weapon not be an option. 

Please don't take this as me questioning his actions - he was in the fight, his life was in danger so he took actions to protect himself. I would not expect any different. I'm simply attempting to make sure i fully understand this comment. 

Cheers


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## Andy Moynihan (Apr 24, 2008)

The first question must be was he even ISSUED a taser. 

The second thing that must be borne in mind is that a Taser is a one-shot deal, for use when you KNOW you only have to subdue one guy. This officer was surprised with deadly force FROM BEHIND and even had he had the taser had no way to be sure its one shot would have been sufficient.


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## KenpoTex (Apr 24, 2008)

And to piggy-back off what Andy said...

A taser is a _control-device_, not a weapon.  As a result, it is not the appropriate option for dealing with the threat of deadly force.  To use a taser in a "gun situation" would be as inappropriate and unreasonable as using a gun in a "taser or OC situation."


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## thardey (Apr 24, 2008)

Andy Moynihan said:


> The first question must be was he even ISSUED a taser.
> 
> The second thing that must be borne in mind is that a Taser is a one-shot deal, for use when you KNOW you only have to subdue one guy. This officer was surprised with deadly force FROM BEHIND and even had he had the taser had no way to be sure its one shot would have been sufficient.





kenpotex said:


> And to piggy-back off what Andy said...
> 
> A taser is a _control-device_, not a weapon.  As a result, it is not the appropriate option for dealing with the threat of deadly force.  To use a taser in a "gun situation" would be as inappropriate and unreasonable as using a gun in a "taser or OC situation."



Yep, yep, that's exactly what I was thinking.


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## jim777 (Apr 24, 2008)

Being that this happened in California, is anyone calling for the banning of baseball yet?

j/k


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