# Is Chi needed in Tai Chi?



## Ram (Sep 4, 2006)

O.k. maybe this is a stupid question but is Chi really needed in Tai Chi? I don't really believe in Chi just in center of gravity, kinetic and potential energy. Also things like Wolff's law for Iorn body. Will this be a problem in Tai Chi or should I look for another style?


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## Xue Sheng (Sep 4, 2006)

The Chi in Tai Chi is not Chi as I think you are thinking

If I am right maybe the actual pinyin spelling would help

Taijiquan is Tai Chi Chuan
Qi is Chi

And you do not understand Qi. It is not the center of gravity. If it helps think of it in the way that Yang Jwing ming describes it. Similar to electrical current. 

It is, to put it simply, the energy needed to operate the body and its systems. If you view it like Traditional Chinese medicine you think of it like this (also put simply, I am not qualified to give detail here) if you have strong Qi you are healthy, if you have weak Qi you are sick. If you have no Qi you are dead.

A good place to start may be Dr Yang's book on the root of Qigong.

And no I do not think it will be a problem for Tai Chi learning if you don't really believe in Chi just in center of gravity, kinetic and potential energy.

And I cannot answer the question based on Wolff's law because I do not know Wolff's law.


*EDIT:* I almost forgot the is Qi really needed for Tai Chi part.
If you really want to do Tai chi, which means proper martial application and health benefit.... Yes
If you want to be a forms collector....no


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## Ram (Sep 4, 2006)

*From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolf's_law#searchInput 
Wolff's law is a theory developed by the German Anatomist/Surgeon Julius Wolff (1835-1902) in the 19th century that states that bone in a healthy person or animal will adapt to the loads it is placed under. If loading on a particular bone increases, the bone will remodel itself over time to become stronger to resist that sort of loading. The converse is true as well: if the loading on a bone decreases, the bone will be adapted and become weaker.
[edit]
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/
Examples


The raquet-holding arm bones of tennis players become much stronger than those of the other arm. Their bodies have strengthened the bones in their raquet-holding arm since it is routinely placed under higher than normal stresses.

Astronauts who spend a long time in space will often return to Earth with weaker bones, since gravity hasn't been exerting a load on their bones. Their bodies have reabsorbed much of the mineral that was previously in their bones.

Martial artists who train for breaking grow their bones to a high density in order to break materials such as boards, bricks, and concrete without injury.
*


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## Ram (Sep 4, 2006)

The problem I had in class with this is when they are doing Chi warm up exercises. I just looked at them as warming up not moving Qi around. I love the look and function of the style and how it teaches good body alignment( also I love empty palm). As far as the Qi thing goes I just kind of look at it as a cultural thing not a real thing. Is there anything like Tai Chi without any reliance on Qi?


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## Shrewsbury (Sep 4, 2006)

Chi can be translated as breath, but more accuratley, oxygen. think of the qi / chi moving methods as a way to increase circulation of blood, oxygen and also the flooding of nuero transmitters.

when you think of a certain body part long enough you will fell it more, and increase the nuerotransmitters and blood / oxygen flow to that area, this is the best way to think of chi in a western medical sense.

chi can be thought of as the spark of life or the electro currents that are in everything.

also remember everything is made of vibration at its micro levels, everything is always moving, because everything is made of atoms, which are moving particles, this vibration can be the root of chi in a western sense.


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## Xue Sheng (Sep 5, 2006)

Ram said:


> Is there anything like Tai Chi without any reliance on Qi?


 
Yep just go to the typical Yang Tai Chi class (24 or 48 form) you find out there and chance are they haven't a clue about Qi anyway so they will just be training you forms.


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## BlackCatBonz (Sep 5, 2006)

Ram said:


> The problem I had in class with this is when they are doing Chi warm up exercises. I just looked at them as warming up not moving Qi around. I love the look and function of the style and how it teaches good body alignment( also I love empty palm). As far as the Qi thing goes I just kind of look at it as a cultural thing not a real thing. Is there anything like Tai Chi without any reliance on Qi?


 
I'm not saying either way my personal belief on chi, but i will say this.....
chi cannot be accurately translated......IMO it is the many things that happen simultaneously that make life go right down to the sub-atomic level.

But try this out.......get someone that has been cultivating their chi all of their life to hit you and then get someone else to do it.

try getting a massage from someone that has cultivated chi all of their life or from a qigong practitioner.......and then have one from joe blow RMT.

But I will say this also.......one doesn't need to be aware of chi in order to culitvate it. Some people do it naturally.


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## charyuop (Sep 5, 2006)

I read an interview once to a member of the Chen family (if I am not wrong). They were talking about Chi and Fajing. In this interview it was said that the power of Fajing is not proper only of Chi. The same power can be obtained by muscolar energy, it is just a matter of different effort and different mechanisms in the hitting part.


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## Xue Sheng (Sep 5, 2006)

charyuop said:


> I read an interview once to a member of the Chen family (if I am not wrong). They were talking about Chi and Fajing. In this interview it was said that the power of Fajing is not proper only of Chi. The same power can be obtained by muscolar energy, it is just a matter of different effort and different mechanisms in the hitting part.


 
From Chen Zhenglei&#8217;s book &#8211; Chen Style Tajijquan, Sword and Broadsword.

The following is a summary. 

For fajing 

- You need to increase your bodies ability to store and release energy
- To do this you need to practice forms individually with fajing
- But you first must have a stable foundation and rooted posture as well as internal energy

My experience with Chen also leads me to say it appears most important is a stable root, a solid foundation and Qi for fajing. You can still do Chen style forms without thinking about Qi but they will be lacking, particularly in the martial applications with out qi. And the same goes for all family styles. You can do Tai Chi forms without Qi, but it is just a form.

Note: Chen style is big on Silk reeling and fajing so the internal is very important to Chen style.


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## Ram (Sep 5, 2006)

On the upside I just found out the Tai Chi school I have been going to also has a Kung fu martial application class where they take moves from Hungar,Tai Chi,Ba Gua and train for the full contact fighting applications for them. They also teach Iorn body which I am going to take advantage of. He still recommends that I take the Tai Chi when I have time.


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