# George Dillman



## lll000000lll (Aug 3, 2006)

so yea, has anyone seen his DVD's or Videos? im curious about pressure points and knockouts. and from what i have heard that guy is excellent.


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## SFC JeffJ (Aug 3, 2006)

I can't say much about Mr. Dillman, but a good friend of mine studies Kyosho Jitsu.  He worked his way up to Sandan in JKA Shotokan before he started studying the kyosho.  I thought it was BS, but I allowed him to use me as an uke.  Then one night, after several months of letting him hit me, after a series of strikes I looked at him and said "Nope that didn't.....", then fell face first on the floor.  Now I  wonder about the SD applications.  I think it might take a bit too much precision to work in a really stressful situation, but it is very interesting.  He loves Dillmans vids and seminars btw.

Jeff


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## MJS (Aug 3, 2006)

lll000000lll said:
			
		

> so yea, has anyone seen his DVD's or Videos? im curious about pressure points and knockouts. and from what i have heard that guy is excellent.


 
Pressure points have their pros and cons.  I wouldn't completely discard them, as in some cases, I think they'd work very good.

Dillman is coming to CT. in December to do a seminar along with Ken Smith (Modern Arnis)  I'm planning on going, as I've never met Dillman, and would like to form my own personal opinion of him.

Mike


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## lll000000lll (Aug 3, 2006)

i am very interested id Dillman's teachings. from what i understand it is hard to find use of the pressure points in a "real fight" 

he explained that in a tournament you get in a punch and you get a point, in a street fight that means Nothing. so he developed a system of awareness and counters incorporating the pressure points.

but to be honest i dont really know anything about the subject of pressure point in modern MA


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## lll000000lll (Aug 3, 2006)

when is he coming??? i live in CT!!!!


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## lll000000lll (Aug 3, 2006)

dec what?


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## MJS (Aug 3, 2006)

lll000000lll said:
			
		

> when is he coming??? i live in CT!!!!


 
I believe the date is Dec 2. in Middletown.  If you're interested in going, let me know, and as the time draws near, I can give you more info.

Mike


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## lll000000lll (Aug 3, 2006)

*December 2 West Hartford, CT* George Dillman & Ken Smith  _Contact: Brett Salafia 860 253-0749 modarnis@aol.com_


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## lll000000lll (Aug 3, 2006)

small world i grew up in west hartford lol i just moved from there to the waterbury area. lol unreal. i gotta meet up at the dec 2nd date


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## MJS (Aug 3, 2006)

lll000000lll said:
			
		

> *December 2 West Hartford, CT* George Dillman & Ken Smith  _Contact: Brett Salafia 860 253-0749 [EMAIL="modarnis@aol.com"]modarnis@aol.com[/EMAIL]_


 
Thats it!! Brett is a member here. His screen name is Modarnis. Shoot him a PM.

As for the location, I'm pretty sure it is in Middletown.


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## lll000000lll (Aug 3, 2006)

will do.


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## pstarr (Aug 3, 2006)

Dillman learned from a good friend of mine, Mr. Seiyu Oyata.  Dillman's skill isn't anywhere close to Oyata's and frankly, he's kind of gone off on a tangent with some of his material (e.g., women should hit this way because they're Yin and men should strike that way because they're Yang, and so forth).


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## lll000000lll (Aug 4, 2006)

really? wow tell me more about your friend Mr. Seiyu Oyata....


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## pstarr (Aug 4, 2006)

Mr. Oyata is a 10th dan in Okinawan kempo and lives in Independence, MO.  He trained with several legendary karate masters of the time, including Chojun Miyagi.  However, he learned his "spotting" techniques from a gentleman whose family was originally Chinese (although they'd lived on Okinawa for generations) and who practiced a family form of kung-fu.

Oyata's skill is subtle and genuine.  I don't know if he's doing any seminars presently as he's getting up in years.


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## modarnis (Aug 4, 2006)

MJS said:
			
		

> Pressure points have their pros and cons. I wouldn't completely discard them, as in some cases, I think they'd work very good.
> 
> Dillman is coming to CT. in December to do a seminar along with Ken Smith (Modern Arnis) I'm planning on going, as I've never met Dillman, and would like to form my own personal opinion of him.
> 
> Mike


 
Mike,

I am finalizing the details presently.  The seminar will be held in Middletown CT this year, at the new and improved Middletown Kenpo Karate.  Seminar will be from 1pm to 5pm.  I am working out the pricing details presently.  We trimmed costs this year and will be offering the seminar for a preregistered price around $60 (maybe less for super early bird type deal) and about $75 at the door

As usual, there will be a dinner/social hour afterward at one of my student's restaurant.  Multiple course meal about 15-20 extra

As for your meeting Dillman for a first time:  George has a very different approach than many instructors.  He has a strong (putting it very mildly) personality that is off putting to some (myself included the first time I met him), but he typically in a general seminar format works concepts that students can easily build from and incorporate into their existing training if they take the time to work with it.


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## modarnis (Aug 4, 2006)

pstarr said:
			
		

> Dillman learned from a good friend of mine, Mr. Seiyu Oyata. Dillman's skill isn't anywhere close to Oyata's and frankly, he's kind of gone off on a tangent with some of his material (e.g., women should hit this way because they're Yin and men should strike that way because they're Yang, and so forth).


 
I have trained with George over the last 8 or 9 years.  I would agree that some of his focus has shifted toward an esoteric fringe that many, myself included, find limited use for.  In terms of his nuts and bolts pressure point and tuite material, with emphasis on proper angle and direction of movement, breakdown of kata and movement, and applicability of stances, his material is still very solid.  Like almost any instructor, it is what you do with the material you are presented, how you analyze and distill it out, and ultimately how you apply it with respect to your own body type, movement style, or situation that really matters


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## MSTCNC (Aug 4, 2006)

[FONT=&quot]December, eh?

Hmm...

I was born/raised in West Hartford... right off of South main St... just up from Conard HS... and got my MA start at the WH YMCA! 

And my Sister and her family still live there... less than a block from my old elementary school (Webster Hill)... so I'll have a place to stay!

Sounds like a good time!

My Modern Arnis Guro (Chad Dulin) was/is a personal student of Mr. Dillmans... and he's even in a few of his videos... I have the Leon Jay (Prof. Wally's son) seminar on tape... and LOVE IT! Such s-m-a-l-l movements with such BIG PAIN! And the knockouts they show are amazing (at least to the un-initiated)

Unfortunately, due to some recent life changes... Chad's no longer on MT and also no longer in DE. So, we won't be able to hear from him on this one...:wah:

Regards,

Andy[/FONT]


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## MJS (Aug 4, 2006)

modarnis said:
			
		

> Mike,
> 
> I am finalizing the details presently. The seminar will be held in Middletown CT this year, at the new and improved Middletown Kenpo Karate. Seminar will be from 1pm to 5pm. I am working out the pricing details presently. We trimmed costs this year and will be offering the seminar for a preregistered price around $60 (maybe less for super early bird type deal) and about $75 at the door
> 
> ...


 
Sounds great!! Looking forward to going!  I was pretty impressed with the pressure point work that Ken was blending into the Arnis at the Camp!  Its really amazing how hitting those areas gives an entirely different view of the material.

Mike


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## chinto01 (Aug 4, 2006)

Sounds like a roll call of Connecticut not to get off topice here. I was born in New London, raised in hard hittin' New Britain, and now live in Plainville. I will be the first to say I do not believe in all of Mr. Dillman's material but I also believe that everyone has something to offer. Maybe we have a Connecticut Martial Talk meet and greet at this thing. What you guys think???

In the spirit of bushido!

Rob


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## tshadowchaser (Aug 4, 2006)

set it up 
i had a small one in Ma. a few years ago and met avout 20 people tha where on Mt at that time. We all gave smal ldmos of what they did and everyone had a great time. NO egos where involved. People just wondered around after a while and woked out togeather


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## MSTCNC (Aug 4, 2006)

chinto01 said:
			
		

> Maybe we have a Connecticut Martial Talk meet and greet at this thing. What you guys think???



Well, I'm down in DE now... since the early 80's... but, as long as I can get off work... sounds good to me!

I always enjoy meeting other Martial Artists...

Keep me posted!

Regards,

Andy


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## chinto01 (Aug 4, 2006)

Sounds like we need to plan a small get together. How should we handle this? I know it is 4 months away but time flies as we all know!

In the spirit of bushido!

Rob


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## Explorer (Aug 4, 2006)

One quick note ... Dillman was introduced to pressure point by Hohan Soken, who provided much written information.  Dillman also trained under Master Oyata, who promoted Dillman to 6th or 7th Dan.  And while George is spending a lot of time in the more esoteric area ... it's a mistake to assume his technique hasn't improved over the years.  For instance, the DKI and KI guys no longer have to strike nearly as hard as they used to the get the response they're looking for.

As for hitting the points in a fight ... don't think 'sparring' ... think stand up grappling.  This way the targets are easier to access.  Oh, and the back-up to PP technique is ... blunt trauma.  If you miss the point, you're still smacking them with a solid, ballistic technique.


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## modarnis (Aug 4, 2006)

Well Andy, a student of the Dulinator, Not sure how to comment on that so I won't.  Chad first introduced me to George when I was in law school in Louisiana. Chad was my Dillman instructor and I was his Modern Arnis instructor .  I've been back in CT since 1998, but still train with Chad when we get the chance.  Its a small world.  MT event sounds great.  This year we have a brand new location which cuts down on my overhead, so the seminar will be  discounted compared to years past.


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## ppko (Aug 4, 2006)

I would deffinately suggest anyone that can should go to this seminar, even if you don't like George Ken Smith is one of the best stick fighters in world (IMO) and is a great teacher.  Everyone knows how I feel about George IMO he is one of the greatest martial artist alive and is great at teaching and with the PP's.


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## Brother John (Aug 4, 2006)

pstarr said:
			
		

> Dillman learned from a good friend of mine, Mr. Seiyu Oyata. Dillman's skill isn't anywhere close to Oyata's and frankly, he's kind of gone off on a tangent with some of his material (e.g., women should hit this way because they're Yin and men should strike that way because they're Yang, and so forth).


Good call on that.
He learned from great sources and has some deep knowledge on the subject, maybe not the same depth as Oyata, but 99.9 1/2% of the WORLD can say the same on that subject!! ....anyway, my biggest beef with MR. Dillman right now is that he's "Gimmicky"...he finds a thing that he sees as "novel" and then drills it into the ground to the point that it's unrecognizable.

odd...
otherwise his knowledge and skills are great.
\
Your Brother
John


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## tshadowchaser (Aug 4, 2006)

ok we need someone in the hartford area to get togeather a list of hotels/motels close to where the event will be held.
 Also if the seminar is a one day event do all of you want to make it a 2 day get togeather and have a day of sharring knowledge and just getting to know each other?
 Now as for the Dillman seminar how about posting it up in the events area if you have not already and give the cost and times.
 It has been about 20 seen or met Mr. Dillman in about 20 years or so now there for I look forward to seeing in person what he is doing these days. As for Mr. Smith I have never met or seen him so that will be a learning exprence for me


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## Explorer (Aug 4, 2006)

These days I train PP with Chris Thomas, co-author of Dillman's books.  His approach is more scholarly than George and much less esoteric.  Master Thomas is the first person I ever heard use the term ... "Blunt trauma is my friend."  He has begun a research group call Kyusho Jitsu Kenkukai that's a lot of fun.


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## MJS (Aug 4, 2006)

tshadowchaser said:
			
		

> ok we need someone in the hartford area to get togeather a list of hotels/motels close to where the event will be held.


 
I can put a list together if you'd like.




> Also if the seminar is a one day event do all of you want to make it a 2 day get togeather and have a day of sharring knowledge and just getting to know each other?
> 
> Now as for the Dillman seminar how about posting it up in the events area if you have not already and give the cost and times.


 
Brett would be the best person to address these questions.


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## chinto01 (Aug 5, 2006)

If it is a two day thing I may be able to offer the dojo I workout at for the second day. Let me know!

In the spirit of bushido!

Rob


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## tshadowchaser (Aug 5, 2006)

Lets hope we get some more feedback on this


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## ArmorOfGod (Aug 5, 2006)

I have heard Dillman is a great guy, but overall the reputation of what he teaches is shady to say the least.
Check out the National Geographic show done on him a few years ago where one of his 12 year old black belts throws a chi ball back and forth like a beach ball to another black belt.  Also, when his one touch knockouts don't work, he explains that it was because the guy's big toe was up or his tongue was in the wrong position, thus cancelling the effect of the knockout.
That video can be viewed here:




I would be very wary of street techniques where tongue and toe placement negate a technique.

Also, check the vid out 




That is of one of Dillman's students trying to do the moves on a whole bunch of bjj guys.  The knockouts have no effect on any of them--just on the guy's students.

Be wary.

AoG


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## Explorer (Aug 5, 2006)

I've been knocked out with one of Dillman's techniques ... Chris Thomas, Dillman's co-author did it.  It was ... remarkable.  I can't speak to the problem George had on the NG show ... but I do know the technique Master Thomas used on me was extremely effective.


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## lll000000lll (Aug 6, 2006)

regardless, i am interested in the technique.


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## Brandon Fisher (Aug 6, 2006)

Here is the thing that bothers me about Mr. Dillman: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-x4iJM2aU4&search=george%20dillman


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## tshadowchaser (Aug 6, 2006)

As I have said befor I knew him through my instructor some 20 plus years ago and the man had some great techniques back then befor he started his current trends of teachin. The man was a good martial artist back then. I want to see what he is like today and i am willing to be the victum of a no touch technique. 
Hell I know what to many who can knock someone out with touch so I want to experence a no touch.  I have know some excellent martial as people and none of them could ever do a no touch so i want to experence it first hand
Sorry folks if Dr. Pai could not do a no touch i doubt any man can

I still want someone in Conn to take charge and set up a sort of meet and greet  to go along with this seminar  It would be an excellent way for many to meet for the first time


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## terryl965 (Aug 6, 2006)

Well wheather it is real or not, for me I need irt done to me in person. As far as a MA'ist he was a great on in the eighties when I took some of his seminar great techniques and alot of info. from a great instructor.
Terry


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## Brandon Fisher (Aug 6, 2006)

I have heard he is a great instructor but this no touch thing really doesn't help is reputation and thats sad.


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## chinto01 (Aug 7, 2006)

I am not trying re-hash old arguments about Mr.Dillman and his teachings now but the question that I have is with any pressure point strike would you not need to have the opponent in total control? After all the size of my pressure point area will not be the same as someone bigger or smaller than I.  Also the speed in which a confrontation happens will have a dramartic effect on the ability to apply such techniques. 

In the spirit of bushido!

Rob


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## Explorer (Aug 7, 2006)

Rob,

You're exactly right.  

In order to do surgery it's wise to strap the patient down first.  That's why I say with pressure point fighting you're looking at stand up grappling.  This is the way Chris Thomas teaches it.  It's so common for an assault to begin with a push, grab or touch with the off hand that Master Thomas often deals with the 'reach' portion of the assault with tuite/chin na (grabbing seizing) techniques.  Once the attacker is trapped, then the strike to the pressure point is applied.

Applying pressure points to free fighting is kind of like trying to do heart surgery while the patient runs a marathon.

I hope I'm not overstepping forum boundries when I suggest checking out one of our video podcasts http://martialarts.thepodcastnetwork.com  If I am crossing the line, let me know and I won't do it again.

Best Wishes,


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## lll000000lll (Aug 7, 2006)

thanx for the video.


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## Brandon Fisher (Aug 7, 2006)

I feel its better to get a hold of the person first and at least get some control but full control is the optimum option.


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## lll000000lll (Aug 7, 2006)

when i spar with my JJ friend ryan i try to get him to shoot for my legs, then i usually go for a knee to the head, or a guiliotine choke.


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## Explorer (Aug 8, 2006)

lll000000lll said:
			
		

> when i spar with my JJ friend ryan i try to get him to shoot for my legs, then i usually go for a knee to the head, or a guiliotine choke.



I like crossfaces followed by a pancake.  However, the attackers neck is in a very awkward position, so you have to be carefull not to break his neck ... unless, of course, that's what you need to do.


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## lll000000lll (Aug 9, 2006)

Explorer said:
			
		

> I like crossfaces followed by a pancake. However, the attackers neck is in a very awkward position, so you have to be carefull not to break his neck ... unless, of course, that's what you need to do.


 
he is verystrong, he is what i call a "no neck" so im not too worried about hurting him.


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## Explorer (Aug 9, 2006)

lll000000lll said:
			
		

> he is verystrong, he is what i call a "no neck" so im not too worried about hurting him.



A crossface begins with an inside (thumb side) forearm strike to the side of the head (just to loosen him up).  I generally strike at eye level and move to the second step, grinding the bone on the inside edge of my forearm across the corner of his eye and nose.  I continue to drive my forearm across his face (ha! crossface) until I can grab his tricep, which locks the crossface in place.  Sometimes the head will simply turn and tilt to the side with the application of the crossface ... but sometimes the head turns, tilts to the side AND tilts back ... now you're in a position to break someones neck.

The whole time I'm applying the crossface I'm pancaking the guy by shooting my feet and legs back, arching my back and dropping my chest onto his shoulder. 

All of this happens pretty quickly.  Some guys just fold up once you wrench their necks back ... others try to hang on to your legs or hips, which only helps the technique.  I love when someone shoots my legs ... just love it.


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## Bodhisattva (Feb 5, 2008)

lll000000lll said:


> so yea, has anyone seen his DVD's or Videos? im curious about pressure points and knockouts. and from what i have heard that guy is excellent.


 
The guy is a fraud.


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## kailat (Feb 5, 2008)

I can say if your a seriious practicioner of any martial arts particularly Karate of any sort, you'l want to hear and understand what GM Dillman has to say and offer.

 If you try to grasp ahold of all he has to say at first you'll be so overwhelmed you wont' understand any of it.  

 You should not rely on his training videos as a first time material.  If you want to experience and understand RyuKyu Kempo or Kyusho Jitsu find his books and read them, and understand them.  

  Dillman is a master at what he does.  He is NOT A FRAUD in my humble opinion.  I am a bit skeptikal however of the NO TOUCH KO I wont even touch that one.  As for the PP's and the meridians and the KO's using either / both there are reputable masters who have used these in past and present.  Is Dillman a 100% accurate?  I do not know, but i do know that he understands and knows what he is doing, when dealing w/ the PPKO's.

  One thing that has been brought to light is do they always work?  Answer YES and NO!  A TKO and KO is a "Knock Out" nonetheless so if your opponent staggers instead of going lights out he is still OUT!

 Not all PP attacks will KO a subject to total "Sleep time".. Many who does not understand this, will argue the RYUKYUKEMPO/KYUSHO arts.  So in final what i'd say for anyone who is skeptical to go to one of his workshops, seminars and go w and OPENMIND rather than the blinders on that so many martial artist are known to do, and expect to be blown away by the mere knowledge and love for the arts this man has.  If your one of the lucky few he picks on and PP KO's ya.. then and only then will you believe!!!

: )  thanks


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## Drac (Feb 5, 2008)

I was an Uke for GM Dillman at a seminar in Lexington..His stuff is the real deal...He numbed my entire arm with a simple strike that didn't hurt when it landed, but a second or 2 later *WOW*..I've been at  the MA  since the late 70's and *NO ONE* has ever been able to do this..


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## kailat (Feb 5, 2008)

Drac,  I've been an advid learner/student of the DKI since 99-2000' when I was first introduced to his knowledge.  I had heard of him before but never put alot of emphasis behind what he had to give.

 I was invited to one of the many workshops w/ him and MSTR Presas and boy that was it, I was hooked.  ALL my years of karate training that I had discarded had finally came together in that one afternoon seminar.  I was so mislead and undertaught in all I was learning in all the years.  I felt like I was able to pick up the pieces and start to walk from a crawl that I was on since the early years.   I was like many and HATED KATA with a passion until I actually understood them and what they were for.  I come from a TOURNAMENT type karate school and we only practiced, learned kata for that purpose only.  

  Once Bunkai became a major part of my study I then was like MAN its all right here.. today many students are lucky to have this training upfront and personal I however was not until I had many years and a black belt into the system.  As for me  I owe alot to DILLMAN for opening my eyes and giving me a new found love for what I thought had died out.

  If any ever have the chance to train or meet Mstr Will Higgenbotham from Indy, he is a great MA as well. Im certain if anyone follows Dillman they know of him and understand.


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## terryl965 (Feb 6, 2008)

Dill man has a lot of great knowledge but I just cannot get over the no touch knockout of is. Until it is done to me I just cannot believe.


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## kailat (Feb 6, 2008)

I feel that... ; )


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## DavidCC (Feb 6, 2008)

terryl965 said:


> Dill man has a lot of great knowledge but I just cannot get over the no touch knockout of is. Until it is done to me I just cannot believe.


 

Well, you can look up Kyusho International, they are much mroe practical aobut this material.  www.kyusho.com


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## terryl965 (Feb 6, 2008)

DavidCC said:


> Well, you can look up Kyusho International, they are much mroe practical aobut this material. www.kyusho.com


 

Nice link thank you


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## Xue Sheng (Feb 6, 2008)

Dillmans Skill at martial arts I have never had reason to question. However his no touch knockout stuff I have great reason to question. My feeling on that is the same as it has always been with all others who have made such claims; All he has done is successfully train his students how to fall down.

I think it is the no touch knockout stuff that hurt his credibility in the eyes of many.


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## Brandon Fisher (Feb 6, 2008)

One of my black belts was knocked out by Dillman and a good friend of mine was also.  My issue is also the no touch knockouts.  Besides I would imagine it is quite dangerous to knockout someone like that no matter how experienced you are.


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## Archangel M (Feb 6, 2008)

My money is on these KO's originating "between the ears" than on any series of "pressure points".


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## cstanley (Feb 6, 2008)

Can you say "Koolaid?"


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## Bodhisattva (Feb 8, 2008)

kailat said:


> I can say if your a seriious practicioner of any martial arts particularly Karate of any sort, you'l want to hear and understand what GM Dillman has to say and offer.
> 
> If you try to grasp ahold of all he has to say at first you'll be so overwhelmed you wont' understand any of it.


 

That is typically true if someone is talking nonsense.  The funny thing about "truth" and "reality" as opposed to "nonsense", is that truth is oftenquickly and easily understood and assimilated.




kailat said:


> Dillman is a master at what he does. He is NOT A FRAUD in my humble opinion. I am a bit skeptikal however of the NO TOUCH KO I wont even touch that one.


 

That's kind of because it kind of reveals dillman as a *total fraud*, right?




kailat said:


> One thing that has been brought to light is do they always work? Answer YES and NO! A TKO and KO is a "Knock Out" nonetheless so if your opponent staggers instead of going lights out he is still OUT!


 

Isn't it funny how Dillman's students are affected by his tactics, but real fighters don't even experience a mild headache, much less stagger around stunned?  Dillman is a fraud.




kailat said:


> Not all PP attacks will KO a subject to total "Sleep time"..


 
Seemingly, very few do.




kailat said:


> Many who does not understand this, will argue the RYUKYUKEMPO/KYUSHO arts. So in final what i'd say for anyone who is skeptical to go to one of his workshops, seminars and go w and OPENMIND rather than the blinders on that so many martial artist are known to do, and expect to be blown away by the mere knowledge and love for the arts this man has. If your one of the lucky few he picks on and PP KO's ya.. then and only then will you believe!!!


 


Put away the "voodoo" and pick up some boxing gloves.



kailat said:


> : ) thanks


 
Thank you, too!   Utter nonsense!


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## kailat (Feb 8, 2008)

First off I'll just reply to your reply as  " To each his own"  everyone has the right and entitled to thier own opinion"  

  To use the term FRAUD is a bit extreme.  I'd say the NO TOUCH KO is something I've yet to experience nor do I honestly care to experience.  

 Let's just say hypothetically speaking it works.  WHO CARES?  Does that mean someone will be walking around zapping everyone in the streets?  

 More than likely its unrealistic that something to this altitude or level even exists or works.  But really who am I to shatter another's hopes and dreams?

2ndly on behalf of George Dillman again I have met the man and he's bright and has brought alot of positive training to martial arts and martial artist.  He is just like anyone else who loves something so much he went above and beyond trying to understand the truth in something.  NO fault in that really.  As a point fighter back in the day he was at best a mediocre fighter.  He participated in the USKA tournaments the same ones I grew up competing in.  U know for me he stepped up and found something to help others look deeper into the arts and keep a general interest in.  

 I can attest that pressure points are essential tool for law enforcement.  Maybe not so much street fighting in general or defenitly cage fighting it has no value there either cause i think there are rules against it. 

 It's obvious that those who debate dillman and his theories are looking at the outside of what he's doing not understanding what he's trying to explain within KATA.  I'd love to extend this topic to a more deeper conversation.  But out of respect for others and the arts I humbly decline to take this particular conversation any further.  I could end up writting something here that will come back to bite me in the rump later on down the line.  So i'll just pass on getting out what i'd love to say.

 Again follow your own path and your own dreams and explore what you feel is necessary.


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## arnisador (Feb 8, 2008)

kailat said:


> To use the term FRAUD is a bit extreme.  I'd say the NO TOUCH KO is something I've yet to experience



You'll be waiting a long time.

I do agree that Mr. Dillman's kata interpretations have really revolutionized how people utilize the Okinawan kata, and that's a great thing. I've gotten a lot of good stuff out of his seminars.

However, I no longer attend them as it simply embarrasses me to do so.


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## Drac (Feb 9, 2008)

kilat said:
			
		

> Drac, I've been an advid learner/student of the DKI since 99-2000' when I was first introduced to his knowledge. I had heard of him before but never put alot of emphasis behind what he had to give.
> 
> I was invited to one of the many workshops w/ him and MSTR Presas and boy that was it, I was hooked. ALL my years of karate training that I had discarded had finally came together in that one afternoon seminar. I was so mislead and undertaught in all I was learning in all the years. I felt like I was able to pick up the pieces and start to walk from a crawl that I was on since the early years. I was like many and HATED KATA with a passion until I actually understood them and what they were for. I come from a TOURNAMENT type karate school and we only practiced, learned kata for that purpose only.
> 
> ...


 
I hear ya..I too was a little wary of all I had read about him..Right after he numbed me I became a believer, his explanations of the kata were also impressive...I have heard of Master Higgenbotham, never had the oppertunity too train with him though...


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## cstanley (Feb 9, 2008)

Anybody can do parlor tricks with uke just standing there. Dillman has embarrassed himself on national television and in public a number of times. He makes such statements as "holding your tongue a certain way can keep his stuff from working..." He has misappropriated Oyata's kyusho, made many unsupportable claims, and is a standing joke among most traditional karate practitioners. I met him back in the 80's and my impression was that I had never met anyone as self-absorbed as him.

As the gentleman above said, put on some boxing gloves. If the stuff is so magic, why hasn't a Dillman student entered MMA and "kyusho'd" his way through a bunch of real fighters? Why didn't one of his ilk lay Gracie down back in the day? They must have known the tongue trick.


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## Drac (Feb 9, 2008)

cstanley said:


> Anybody can do parlor tricks with uke just standing there. .


 
That is quite true..But I have been hit by Masters and Grandmasters since I started my training and had *NEVER* experienced that kind of reaction..Maybe I'm just getting old...


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## cstanley (Feb 9, 2008)

Drac said:


> That is quite true..But I have been hit by Masters and Grandmasters since I started my training and had *NEVER* experienced that kind of reaction..Maybe I'm just getting old...


 
Or maybe you just want to believe.


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## Drac (Feb 9, 2008)

cstanley said:


> Or maybe you just want to believe.


 
Naw...I had heard all the throwing chi-balls crapola stories so I was entered the room with a " lets-see-what-this-charlatan-is-gonna-try-and-pull"...I was surprized..


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## arnisador (Feb 9, 2008)

Drac said:


> I have heard of Master Higgenbotham, never had the oppertunity too train with him though...



I met him at several George Dillman seminars he hosted in Indianapolis. Nice guy! I never had a chance to work with him though. Like many of those who studied with Mr. Dillman's group (I think he's since broken off), he also does Modern Arnis and Small Circle Jujitsu.


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## jks9199 (Feb 9, 2008)

Personally, I think that Dillman had some good stuff to introduce early on.  I've never experienced it directly -- but enough people have found some effect of the basic stuff (and I HAVE experienced some similar things) that I believe the core idea of kata containing pressure point information IF properly understood is true.

But I think he also fell prey to "talking head syndrome."  He liked the attention and liked being _The Man_ on the subject.  So he started getting further and further out there.  The no-touch, chi-balls, etc...  Nope.  Especially if it's so easy to defeat that if your tongue is in the wrong place or you push down with the big toe, it doesn't work...


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## exile (Feb 9, 2008)

In a funny way, something very similar happened to Elizabeth Kübler-Ross, whose early work, especially _On Death and Dying_, was considered a pioneering work on the process of dying and on our responseparticularly in the western worldto that process. She acquired the status, first of an expert, and then of a guru on the subject, became involved in various afterlife-cult groups, and she became heavily discredited. As Wikipedia puts it somewhat tersely, _in later life, Kubler-Ross became interested in out-of-body experiences and mediumistic attempts to contact the dead. This led to a scandal connected with one medium, as well as attacks on her healing centers._ The scandal in question showed her to be an extremely naive and gullible sort who was taken in by tricks of exactly the sort that Houdini was so so fond of (and good at) exposing.

This is a serious trap that people who should know better often seem to fall into...


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## thetruth (Feb 10, 2008)

cstanley said:


> As the gentleman above said, put on some boxing gloves. If the stuff is so magic, why hasn't a Dillman student entered MMA and "kyusho'd" his way through a bunch of real fighters? Why didn't one of his ilk lay Gracie down back in the day? They must have known the tongue trick.



I actualy had this discussion with the guys on the Kyusho International forum.  Evan Pantazi (7th dan under Georgeandfounder of KI) said he had some MMA guys come and learn off him but never used it because 'they weren't ready to embrace their teachings and were resistant'.  I followed that with 'What a crock of ****' and subsequently got booted from their forum.   

Cheers
Sam:asian:


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## Kwan Jang (Feb 24, 2008)

I do MMA and I have felt and been convinced of the value of kyusho/tuite. I am NOT a proponent of the "no touch" stuff, though. I do use pp's as the "poison on the arrow" to enhance my grappling and so far it has worked pretty well against resisting opponents. I use what part of it that works for me and I file the rest. Like Drac, I was more than a "bit skeptical" about this when Leon Jay (Wally's son) put me down with a light touch about a decade ago. I have been a pro fighter and have trained with and hit by some of the best in the business and I was also a nat'l level strength athlete. I don't go down very easily and before Leon did that to me, I wouldn't have thought he could have taken me down with a baseball bat. The experience adjusted my attitude very quickly.

Will Higgenbotham is a friend of mine and it has been my pleasure to host for seminars at my school several times. He's a great teacher and a wonderful guy that I would recommend his seminars to anyone. Personally, I prefer Will and Leon to Dillman as I feel that George has strayed away from the core of what he did that really did bring value to the martial arts community. I pretty much agree with what some others have said, Dillman's early work in kata interpretation was of value and IMO, he's going too far way from the mark now.


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## howard (Mar 1, 2008)

Kwanjang, thanks for posting that. Maybe it will help some people realize that pressure point techniques can be very effective, but just not in the sensational way frauds like Dillman would want you to believe.

We use pressure point activations in many of our Hapkido techniques. I think most people have the notion, which I think is mistaken, that the techniques rely on creating lots of pain. Ours don't. Rather, they rely on fairly soft disruptions of the nervous system that are enough to render you vulnerable for a fraction of a second. During that fraction of a second, you apply your primary technique, while your enemy is unbalanced physically and psychologically.

When people who know what they're doing use these techniques on me in training, it literally buckles my knees. It affects your whole body. I'll grant that I seem to be more sensitive to certain pressure point techniques than many others, but they still work on most people.

oh, btw... our techniques work on most people even if they have their big toe or tongue in the wrong place.  :wink2:


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## DavidCC (Mar 4, 2008)

I'm thankful to GD for obscuring the truth of the matter.  Do you really want every monkey-neck mook out there gunning for your liver-13??


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## Jim Greenwood (Apr 26, 2008)

George Dillman deserves a lot of credit but catches a lot of s**t because he says stuff that should be kept private and just keep the basic stuff at hand.

PP arent magic Chinese voodoo they are nerve attacks that really work. And if you train them as nerve attacks/strikes to affect the body well... guess what?


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