# Is Kenpo in a decline?



## Bob Hubbard (Sep 24, 2013)

Kenpo discussion at one point used to be a major component of Martial Talk. So much so that we successfully launched a sister site, KenpoTalk for it.  Together with KenpoNet, I would say we were the top 3 sites for kenpo discussion online.  I never saw much over on Budoseek, Martialartsplanet, Deluxe or E-Budo when I looked.

But over the years, kenpo discussion here waned, Kenpotalk's a little less active that it used to be, and Kenponet looks to have gone bust.

So I have to ask, is it just us? Is there some other hot bed of kenpo discussion all the cool kids are hanging at? If so, can we be cool again?

And if not....what's been happening, and how can it be turned around?


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## Blindside (Sep 24, 2013)

As stupid as this may sound, I think a lot of the vocal voices in kenpo are talked out.  Those of us who were on KenpoTalk, and MartialTalk, and KenpoNet before that have done damn near every topic fifty times over.  I've been on kenpo forums since '97, I don't want to talk about how the EPAK 5 Swords is different than the Tracy 7 Swords again.  Thankfully the politics are largely over as everyone realizes that there is no successor and everybody gets to do their own thing.  In many ways I think it just needs new blood (uh, make that participants) on the forums.


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## Touch Of Death (Sep 24, 2013)

It's the economy Sir. 
Sean


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## MJS (Sep 25, 2013)

Bob Hubbard said:


> Kenpo discussion at one point used to be a major component of Martial Talk. So much so that we successfully launched a sister site, KenpoTalk for it.  Together with KenpoNet, I would say we were the top 3 sites for kenpo discussion online.  I never saw much over on Budoseek, Martialartsplanet, Deluxe or E-Budo when I looked.
> 
> But over the years, kenpo discussion here waned, Kenpotalk's a little less active that it used to be, and Kenponet looks to have gone bust.
> 
> ...



Bring back Ras!!  That'll be sure to raise activity level! 

All kidding aside, I have to go with Blindeside.  I like talking about technique, but like he said, there's only so much that one could discuss when it comes to tech comparison.  I pop over to the Kaju Cafe now and then, and that place is just as quiet.  I used to see some pretty lengthy discussion, on history, techs, various training/SD situations, and while many times the thread would go on and on, some times, especially when it came to history or things of a 'sensitive' nature, the thread would be closed and/or removed altogether, from general public view and moved to the trash bin or black belt only discussion.


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## Blindside (Sep 25, 2013)

I think one of the other things about online discussion forums, at least with regard to martial arts is that the amount of information out there now, because of video availability is so much higher.  When I started the online discussion was a major source of information gathering, that I could attempt to get some answers about how to do Crossing Talon, and their are people willing to talk about about their arm position, their body position, why they do what they do.  Now I can go on youtube and pull up 5 different people talking about their Crossing Talon.  There is danger in that as you must figure out if that is a quality video that you are attempting to learn from, but quite frankly that is true of forums as well.  I'll be honest, once video started becoming more prevent there were several posters that I liked their writing online, but then was unimpressed by their execution on video.


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## Stargazer (Sep 30, 2013)

This is a good thread and important topic.  I agree with Bob's observations that kenpo is in decline.  At least in my area, you can see it.

The reasons?  Some of what I've seen include 1) outrageous pricing (2x or 3x the cost of competitors) 2) really, really problematic behavior by leaders of schools or groups of schools (such that families don't want to associate with it), 3) quality issues either with students, teachers, or both, 4) better sales/marketing/business management by others schools, 5) a lot of people feeling legitimately wronged by kenpo schools and sharing their stories (and their friends stay away), and 6) now with YouTube the perception that if a teacher cannot move correctly or is clearly out of shape, they're selling a false product.


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## arnisador (Sep 30, 2013)

Stargazer said:


> if a teacher[...]is clearly out of shape



Is there any other kind of Kenpo?


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## Stargazer (Oct 1, 2013)

That's not to say there aren't some incredible kenpo and kenpo/kali martial artists, but the few bad apples in the kenpo world are truly atrocious.  Usually the online connentaries/complaints/reviews say it all about them.   Everything from students suffering actual harm to the more slimy practices of kicking out kids who parents can't pay suddenly because of an unexpected job loss or health issue.  There is one kenpo school owner in my area who continues to shock everyone with unethical, erratic, and money before everything attitude.  It is no wonder people are avoiding this.  I see families picking TKD instead simply because they don't want their kids around that.


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## Hand Sword (Nov 13, 2013)

A quick point from what I see now. I think it's possible that the country is in a generational crossover. The younger groups, who did not grow up in the generation of the TMA's are waiting longer to have children and families; instead focussing on themselves, more of the MMA/ Boxing craze going on. Those gyms/programs are everywhere now and jam packed, even with women, where BJJ translates well  in the scariest situations of being trapped on your back and mounted, grabbed, etc.... The children of today, who would've packed the kenpo schools of the past, don't go out, don't play, just do video games and social media. The martial arts for them is what is seen on TV's or downloaded. Again, MMA themed.


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## marlon (Nov 16, 2013)

Personally, I think that on the discussion forums there is a decline because kenpo/kempo is not "allowed" to grow.  So, in the end it was not really kempo talk it was sharing and arguing about dogma.  The discussions could only go so far...as with any dogma.  The more expo/kempo is allowed to grow and evolve the more interesting the sharing becomes.
As for teaching...well competition schools will always do better than schools that do not emphasize competition. The economy as reduced the amount of extra money people have to get involved that way so there is a decline.  Schools in less safe neighbourhoods are probably still at the same level as before the dive of the economy. Those students need their art for safety and peace of mind.

a goo kempo/kenpo movie might help  
just my two cents


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