# Mantis Kung Fu



## 7starmantis (Aug 20, 2002)

Is there anyone else here that studies the Mantis System. Not just northern but southern styles as well? If so, what specific Style do you study and how long have you been studying it?

I'm just curious, I can't seem to find anyone here that has studied this style.

7sm


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## TLH3rdDan (Aug 21, 2002)

hi there, yeah i have studied some mantis styles not for an extended time period unfortunately... lets see first there was a brief encounter with roger haygood who taught a rare form of i believe it was a northern style of mantis cant remember the exact name, that only lasted a month, which was not a pleasant expierence and i feel like he is more of a con artist and mad man than a martial artist... then i studied for a couple of months with a group that was doing a mix of mantis styles which included... 7 star, tai mantis, and northern and southern mantis, unfortuantely they closed their doors due to the fact they could not afford to keep the place open anymore other wise id probably still be there... then recently ive been working with a wah lum pai school...


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## 7starmantis (Aug 21, 2002)

Thats to bad about the "con-artist" guy, its them who give MA in general a bad name! wah lum pai is a great system, good luck with it.


7sm


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## arnisador (Aug 21, 2002)

I'm pretty sure he's southern mantis; see here.


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## TLH3rdDan (Aug 22, 2002)

for the link i couldnt remember if i had posted what region it was or not and was too tired last night to search lol... but anyway dont want to steer this thread in that direction... so 7star im assuming that you study 7 star mantis... have you tried any other mantis styles?


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## 7starmantis (Aug 22, 2002)

> _Originally posted by TLH3rdDan _
> 
> *for the link i couldnt remember if i had posted what region it was or not and was too tired last night to search lol... but anyway dont want to steer this thread in that direction... so 7star im assuming that you study 7 star mantis... have you tried any other mantis styles? *



No, I haven't tried any other manits sytles, I've done a little wah lum through workshops and all, but thats about it. I studied Dragon Style and JKD couple years back. I don't think I would try any of the other mantis styles, I'm really liking 7* and I am wanting to teach, so I'll stay with it for a while yet.

7sm


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## Skarbromantis (Aug 24, 2002)

I study 7 Star PM from the Won Hun Fun lineage, under Master Chow Chi Fung, im in my secound year of PM.

Skard1


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## tshadowchaser (Aug 24, 2002)

To those posting on this thread that we haven't said hello to yet. Welcome to the forum.  I hope you enjoy your time here.  Please tell your friends about us we do not have that many people posting in the Chinese Martial Arts area and I for one would like to see it grow with knowledgeable friendly people.
   Can one of you explain some of the diffrences between your style and lets say the Southern Bamboo Mantis system, or any of the other Mantis systems?
 Shadow:asian:


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## theneuhauser (Aug 24, 2002)

tshadowchaser


> Can one of you explain some of the diffrences between your style and lets say the Southern Bamboo Mantis system, or any of the other Mantis systems?



i think you mean bamboo forest? jook lum.

southern mantis style is very different from northern (of which 7star pm is one). southern style has a greater emphasis on internal concepts, traditionally. southern mantis also tends to use close combat methods, which is typical of many southern chinese boxing methods. they use sticky hands practice that appears alot like shui chao? from wing chun. but the actual striking method is often different, ie-back of the wrist, phoenix eye fist, etc. 
classic northern pm uses these techs, but southern developed them further. northern mantis has more kicks (no surprise) and uses a good balance of long range techniques as well. some northern styles practice forms and techniques that are tailored to confronting several opponents at once. thats why you see alot of movement in some pm forms. 
ill keep it short because my experience is in wahlum which has its differences and my education in these other styles is really only minimal. 
wah lum is also a pm style but its considered northern and southern? because the techs are very northern in appearance, but the wah lum temple is considered a southern monastery. it has some big differences from the other pm styles.


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## tshadowchaser (Aug 24, 2002)

I did indeed mean Bamboo Forest  thanks for correcting  that blunder on my part .    
  Do you use many floor/ground  techniques: ie   sweeps, rolls, low leg traps, etc.?


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## arnisador (Aug 24, 2002)

I've heard it three ways:

Southern mantis is a branch of northern mantis that's gone in a  really different direction.

Southern and Northern mantis are both based on the mantis but are not related to one another beyond that fact.

Southern mantis bears no relation to Northern mantis or the mantis at all; it was named Southern mantis so people would _think_ it was a branch of Northern mantis. This was done to keep its true nature secret.


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## 7starmantis (Aug 25, 2002)

The best I can understand from my research, southern pm was developed when one of the original students of Wong Long, after goign his own way, began to adapt other techniques and style into his original pm. This caused "southern pm" to go a different way from the original pm he had learned. From that one contact, they have had basically no other similarities or combinations. 
 Southern style is claimed as a very secretive and deadly art, however they do not rely on sparring in this style at all. It is claimed that you have to achieve the style and not learn it, mor or less. Its also very hard to find an instructor.


JMHO

7sm


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## theneuhauser (Aug 25, 2002)

> _Originally posted by tshadowchaser _
> 
> *I did indeed mean Bamboo Forest  thanks for correcting  that blunder on my part .
> Do you use many floor/ground  techniques: ie   sweeps, rolls, low leg traps, etc.? *



we used alot of sweeps(full ground sweeps and standing kick sweeps) very little rolling, and all the close techs include either a trap or a low kick (crushing step is fairly unique to mantis and it basically trains breaking the top of the foot with the heel).




> Southern and Northern mantis are both based on the mantis but are not related to one another beyond that



i would agree with that statement because both systems do use mantis hand positions(mantis hook).


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## theneuhauser (Aug 25, 2002)

> _Originally posted by 7starmantis _
> 
> *The best I can understand from my research, southern pm was developed when one of the original students of Wong Long, after goign his own way, began to adapt other techniques and style into his original pm. This caused "southern pm" to go a different way from the original pm he had learned. From that one contact, they have had basically no other similarities or combinations.
> Southern style is claimed as a very secretive and deadly art, however they do not rely on sparring in this style at all. It is claimed that you have to achieve the style and not learn it, mor or less. Its also very hard to find an instructor.
> ...



didnt bruce lee learn some of his sparring technique from a southern mantis instructor on the east coast? the type of sparring they do looks like wing chun.


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## 7starmantis (Aug 25, 2002)

I hadn't heard that about Bruce Lee. 

All the Sifu's I have ever been in contact with from Southern Mantis do not use sparring in their classes. So you do use sparring in your studies of it? Thats interesting. I wouldn't mind sparring someone from southern style, just to see how their techniques are.


7sm


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## arnisador (Aug 25, 2002)

Doesn't it stress the phoenix-eye fist much more than the mantis hand?


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## theneuhauser (Aug 25, 2002)

i dont know much about it but it uses both, phoenixeye fist is either used often or exclusively when fist punching, but the mantis hand is a useful striking tool in two ways; when an arm is parried downward at close range, it is sometimes more efficient to come up towards the head with the back of the hand(still in mantis hook) than to form a fist and try to make a backfist or a straight punch type attack. thats one of the skills that makes mantis considered "fast". i call it the "mantis pimpslap".

its also very effective to attack the back of the neck with the "hook side" from less than 45 degrees angle to the opponent, when i chop would be less effective.


i had to edit this to say that its not really the back of the hand so much as it is the brunt of the wrist, but i still like to call it the mantispimpslapperoo!


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## 7starmantis (Aug 25, 2002)

:rofl:   mantispimpslap! 

I'm going to have to remember that and use it! I really like that type of hit though, it is very effective.

7sm


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## arnisador (Aug 25, 2002)

I've had a punch blocked on the inside of my wrist with the back of my opponent's wrist, mantis-style--that hurts!


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## theneuhauser (Aug 25, 2002)

the inside of the wrist can be pretty sensitive, though. as you know from your training, its an easy point to use when you disarm an unsuspecting opponent with a short weapon.


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## 7starmantis (Aug 25, 2002)

> _Originally posted by theneuhauser _
> 
> *the inside of the wrist can be pretty sensitive, though. as you know from your training, its an easy point to use when you disarm an unsuspecting opponent with a short weapon. *



Very true, its a two edged sword in that way.

Hey  You are now a brown belt! Congrats!


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## theneuhauser (Aug 25, 2002)

oh yeah thanks!!!! blue looked alot cooler though


you mentioned in another thread that your sifu or sigung practiced at wah lum temple, do you have wah lum forms or seven star in your curriculums, if so what forms do you practice?
what is the system called or does it have a website?


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## 7starmantis (Aug 26, 2002)

My Sigung studied at wah lum temple, but my sifu teaches strictly 7*. All our forms are 7*. Herre is the link for my school(I'm actually creating a webpage for them now, so we can get off this kinda crummy site its on now). LINK  My school is the one in Tyler.

My sigung does workshops that we can attend at which he teaches some wah lum. I haven't had the oportunity to train with him, but once, and it was in a very large class. I really enjoy wah lum, and may eventually look into studying it more. I don't currently know any wah lum forms....well, I learned 1 but I don't remember much about it. Thats one of the problems with workshops.


7sm


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## Skarbromantis (Aug 27, 2002)

Not to sound rude but why does the lineage chart show Won Hun Fun as a branch from Lee Kam Wing, is it an error? 
Won Hun Fun was taught by Lo Kwon Yu, and not LKW, the chart makes it look like WHF was a student of LKW when he is actually a whole generation before him, just wondering.

Skard1


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## chufeng (Aug 27, 2002)

Theneuhauser wrote:

"crushing step is fairly unique to mantis and it basically trains breaking the top of the foot with the heel"

Although mantis may use this tactic, it is NOT limited to mantis boxing systems. Fut Ga Kun uses stamping techniques quite a bit.
Sifu Harlan Lee is the heir to a system that is very similar to Wing Chun...and although the forms of that system looks like a medium range fighting system, truth is, it is more a short fist system and stamping is part of the arsenal... a very effective and unique system...

:asian:
chufeng


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## 7starmantis (Aug 27, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Skarbromantis _
> 
> *Not to sound rude but why does the lineage chart show Won Hun Fun as a branch from Lee Kam Wing, is it an error?
> Won Hun Fun was taught by Lo Kwon Yu, and not LKW, the chart makes it look like WHF was a student of LKW when he is actually a whole generation before him, just wondering.
> ...



No it is just poorly done. It has students listed under their respective teachers. But it is hard to read. I think they forgot to post the "rule" that went with it, the dotted line means something else. Here is a MUCH more detailed lineage chart. Beware, its long and hard to read. LINK 

Also, authentickungfu.com has one they haven't updated in quite a while. LINK


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## arnisador (Sep 25, 2002)

There's a newly opened bike path that runs behind work and I have been taking a walk on it when time and the weather permit. I often see a praying mantis on the path. It struck me today that I am unnable to see such an insect without thinking of the associated kung fu system(s), and wanting to tease it with a stick to see how it fights. (I don't tease it, by the way.) It always makes me think of kung fu.


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## Cthulhu (Sep 25, 2002)

> _Originally posted by arnisador _
> 
> *There's a newly opened bike path that runs behind work and I have been taking a walk on it when time and the weather permit. I often see a praying mantis on the path. It struck me today that I am unnable to see such an insect without thinking of the associated kung fu system(s), and wanting to tease it with a stick to see how it fights. (I don't tease it, by the way.) It always makes me think of kung fu. *



Heh.  I used to live by the fence of the airbase we lived on in Japan.  We used to collect praying mantises from the vine-covered fence all the time and watch them fight.  That, or we'd feed them big black crickets.

Cthulhu


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## 7starmantis (Sep 25, 2002)

Heh, I love watching them! If we run into one we allways stop and punch at it with a stick trying to "get a lesson" from it! After all, this is how the system was created!!

Its really facinating to watch them catch their food!!


7sm


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## theneuhauser (Oct 6, 2002)

im thinking about taking one in as a pet. i will raise it from the egg sack stage in order to avoid stripping away a wild bug's freedom. then i will mold and fashion his devastating predatorial killer instinct from birth by feeding live prey.It will be a symbiosis between me and the bug. i will bring him food and he will teach me kung fu. Only then will i learn true mantis boxing.

seriously, i think it would make a cool pet!


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## 7starmantis (Oct 8, 2002)

That would be an awesome pet! My wife and I were out car shopping the other night and she found one on the hood of one of the cars, it was so tiny, it took a litle bit to determine if it really was a mantis! I was wondering if it knew any kung fu yet, so I played with it a bit, it's kung fu was still very weak!!


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