# Tae Kwon Do Moo Duk Kwan



## MBuzzy (May 6, 2008)

http://books.google.com/books?id=d2...S9DQ&sig=97CHjZgKKY3CDMLIhqDeWEFalMo#PPA80,M1

This is a limited preview of a book regarding TKD MDK.  You should be able to get a good look at the vast majority of the book.  I had never really seen any references regarding this style.  I recently ran across the History of TKD article which talks about Hwang Kee's issues with the Kwan consolidation.  This is basically what led to the separation of the two branches of Moo Duk Kwan as I understand it.

Has anyone ever seen TKD MDK in person?  How similar is it really to TSD?  Does anyone know any more about this style?

In terms of the book, of particular interest to me wer the history and philosophy sections.  The history is very interesting...and the philosophy section seems very close to what most TSD teaches.

Thoughts?


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## Makalakumu (May 6, 2008)

My old college roomate trained at a TSDMDK dojang in Alaska.  I was invited to come and train with them when I came to visit.  For the most part, its a lot like TSD as they retain the O/J kata.  They've added a couple of sets, Kibon 1-5 and believe the Chang Hons, but other then that, I would say its nearly authentic TSD.  

The practice of one-steps and self defenses are different then what we normally see in many of the TSD organizations, but the concept of one-steps and self defenses is identical.  

The sparring is TKD rules.  There is contact at all levels with full contact at the upper gup ranks.  Tournaments are full contact continuous round sparring.  No punches to the head.

The breaking is more flashy then TSD.  Lots of difficult ariel spinning kicks.  My friend, who tested for 2nd dan, had to break three boards in the air with three different kicks.

All in all, it was a pretty good school.  Both my friend and his brother could hold their own in a fight and they proved it on numerous occasions.


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## Miles (May 6, 2008)

Taekwondo Moo Duk Kwan is now Kukkiwon-style Taekwondo.  With the Kwan Unification Act, the various kwans agreed to support the Kukkiwon and the standardization of curriculum and poomsae.  The book referenced by MBuzzy was written by GM Richard Chun.  In his book, GM Chun mentions his own instructor, GM Chong Soo Hong who was a high-ranking officer of the Kukkiwon until his death.

Miles


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## Makalakumu (May 7, 2008)

Miles said:


> Taekwondo Moo Duk Kwan is now Kukkiwon-style Taekwondo. With the Kwan Unification Act, the various kwans agreed to support the Kukkiwon and the standardization of curriculum and poomsae. The book referenced by MBuzzy was written by GM Richard Chun. In his book, GM Chun mentions his own instructor, GM Chong Soo Hong who was a high-ranking officer of the Kukkiwon until his death.
> 
> Miles


 
Then where do these dojangs come from that say they are practicing TKD MDK?  They are still around...


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## tshadowchaser (May 7, 2008)

It was my first style of martial art.
My instructor insisted on 90 percent kicks with little hand work.
I left the organization to learn more and to develop my hands


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## MBuzzy (May 7, 2008)

I didn't realize that any kukkiwon related schools practiced the Kicho Hyungs.  From looking at the book, it looks like TKD MDK isn't too standardized from the kukkiwon.


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## exile (May 7, 2008)

MBuzzy said:


> I didn't realize that any kukkiwon related schools practiced the Kicho Hyungs.  From looking at the book, it looks like TKD MDK isn't too standardized from the kukkiwon.



I guess we're somewhat loosely affiliated with the KKW; my instructor has a fifth dan with them, anyway. But we do the Kichos and the Palgwes; a lot of what's in Richard Chun's two books on MDK TKD is in our curriculum (though he only goes up to Palgwe 6; apparently 7-8 are considered to be advanced forms). One of the things that struck me when I first saw Chun's books is how similar the MDK TKD (his version, in any case) and Song Moo Kwan curricula (in our particular lineage, anyway) are. 

I get the feeling that in spite of decades of the KKW's efforts to standardize the syllabus, there is still an almost chaotic diversity of curricula out there. There's the Official Story, on the one hand, and then there's what people are actually doing in their dojangs on the other, and they're not the same at all. I think, if we were able to look at actual school practice and day-to-day training across a few hundred dojangs, we'd be pretty struck by how much diversity there is out there. Which to me is a very _good_ thing; but it also may mean that there is no simple answer to what MDK TKD 'is'. Looking at the different routes that SMK TKD took, the most accurate answer might be something like, 'whatever your instructor's instructor('s instructor) decided it _should_ be'.


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## FieldDiscipline (May 7, 2008)

My instructor recommended Richard Chun's books to me too.


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## MBuzzy (May 7, 2008)

exile said:


> I guess we're somewhat loosely affiliated with the KKW; my instructor has a fifth dan with them, anyway. But we do the Kichos and the Palgwes; a lot of what's in Richard Chun's two books on MDK TKD is in our curriculum (though he only goes up to Palgwe 6; apparently 7-8 are considered to be advanced forms). One of the things that struck me when I first saw Chun's books is how similar the MDK TKD (his version, in any case) and Song Moo Kwan curricula (in our particular lineage, anyway) are.
> 
> I get the feeling that in spite of decades of the KKW's efforts to standardize the syllabus, there is still an almost chaotic diversity of curricula out there. There's the Official Story, on the one hand, and then there's what people are actually doing in their dojangs on the other, and they're not the same at all. I think, if we were able to look at actual school practice and day-to-day training across a few hundred dojangs, we'd be pretty struck by how much diversity there is out there. Which to me is a very _good_ thing; but it also may mean that there is no simple answer to what MDK TKD 'is'. Looking at the different routes that SMK TKD took, the most accurate answer might be something like, 'whatever your instructor's instructor('s instructor) decided it _should_ be'.


 
I knew that Song Moo Kwan was also very close to Soo Bahk Do/Tang Soo Do, in addition to Jido Kwan.  Jido Kwan was actually one of the Kwans that initially refused to unite as referenced in the History of TKD article.  They are also very similar.


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## IcemanSK (May 7, 2008)

I have a friend who is an 8th Dan KKW who is very proud to claim MDK TKD. I don't know the details, only that his father was his instructor as a child. I'd be interested in knowing more of the connections.


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## terryl965 (May 7, 2008)

It is funny when I tell people I am MDK TKD they all tell me I am TSD and I tell them no. So much for that anyway there are alot of folks that hold true to MDK TKD even though they teach the new form for there school for competition sake. 

The KKW does not have a great curriculum that goes out to all KKW school they have become a certified mill over the years because people need these certificate to really compete at certain events.


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## MBuzzy (May 7, 2008)

Terry, I didn't know that you were in MDK TKD!  Do you know anythign else about the evolution and history after Hwang Kee parted ways?


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## exile (May 7, 2008)

terryl965 said:


> It is funny when I tell people I am MDK TKD they all tell me I am TSD and I tell them no. So much for that anyway there are alot of folks that hold true to MDK TKD even though they teach the new form for there school for competition sake.



Yeah, it seems as if a lot of people don't know about the huge split in the MDK. For those folks, Moo Doo Kwan TKD is a contradiction in terms. You have to wave Chun's book, with the title _Moo Doo Kwan Taekwondo_ in their face before they'll believe you... 



terryl965 said:


> The KKW does not have a great curriculum that goes out to all KKW school they have become a certified mill over the years because people need these certificate to really compete at certain events.



You could get the feeling that as long as they collect their registration fees, they don't much care what you actually _do_. It _does_ keep Big Brother from getting too much in your face, though...


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## Master K (May 7, 2008)

I have seen TKD MDK schools teach the Pal-gwes and Taegeuk forms, which are recognized by the Kukkiwon.  I have seen some schools teach the traditional TSD curriculum (Kichos, Pyung  Ahns, etc).  In the end it is up to the instructor/school owner as to what is taught.


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## terryl965 (May 7, 2008)

MBuzzy said:


> I didn't realize that any kukkiwon related schools practiced the Kicho Hyungs. From looking at the book, it looks like TKD MDK isn't too standardized from the kukkiwon.


 
I know what I have been told but will not discuss on the boardm naybe at the M&G we can talk about it or by phone. Sorry to many people calling other people a liar for me to get into on a board .


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## JWLuiza (May 7, 2008)

Yes, it is hard for some people to understand.  Especially with the trademark issues, etc.  There is a TKD MDK school that just opened in my area, from what I understand they are very similar to the TSD I do.  I don't think they are affiliated with KKW.


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## Miles (May 7, 2008)

upnorthkyosa said:


> Then where do these dojangs come from that say they are practicing TKD MDK?  They are still around...



They are TKD dojang whose lineage is from the MDK.  There is even a Pan American Moo Duk Kwan Society which serves as a link to the Korea TKD Moo Duk Kwan Association-www.moodukkwansociety.com

This group is composed of many senior GMs (TSD & TKD) with a MDK lineage.

Miles


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## tshadowchaser (May 7, 2008)

> It is funny when I tell people I am MDK TKD they all tell me I am TSD and I tell them no


Years ago MDKTKD and MUKTSD where very much the same. Some schools taught different forms  but in compitition or on the practice floor they looked the same.


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## MBuzzy (May 7, 2008)

terryl965 said:


> I know what I have been told but will not discuss on the boardm naybe at the M&G we can talk about it or by phone. Sorry to many people calling other people a liar for me to get into on a board .


 
I understand completely, there are a lot of aspects of my style that I wouldn't go into on a public forum for the same reasons, I'm sure.


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## terryl965 (May 7, 2008)

tshadowchaser said:


> Years ago MDKTKD and MUKTSD where very much the same. Some schools taught different forms but in compitition or on the practice floor they looked the same.


 
This is so true, but there was slight differences.


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## terryl965 (May 7, 2008)

MBuzzy said:


> I understand completely, there are a lot of aspects of my style that I wouldn't go into on a public forum for the same reasons, I'm sure.


 
we shall have time in Buffalo to talk and have a few beers.


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## Deaf Smith (May 8, 2008)

Way back in college (SFA in Nacogodoches, Texas) I took Taekwondo Moo Duk Kwon under Master John Chu. I progressed up to 1st Red before he died of tumors (age 35 I belive.)

The forms were mainly Japanese style (such as Basai but with changes that are not in Shotokan.) While it was supposed to be 80 percent feet, I can say Chu allowed those who could use their hands (but no spinning backfist.)

After he died, it split into. One part kept Taekwondo, the other went to Tang Soo Do (and now Soo Bahk Do.)

Deaf


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## Tae Kwon Dave (Jun 20, 2008)

MBuzzy said:


> http://books.google.com/books?id=d2...S9DQ&sig=97CHjZgKKY3CDMLIhqDeWEFalMo#PPA80,M1
> 
> This is a limited preview of a book regarding TKD MDK. You should be able to get a good look at the vast majority of the book. I had never really seen any references regarding this style. I recently ran across the History of TKD article which talks about Hwang Kee's issues with the Kwan consolidation. This is basically what led to the separation of the two branches of Moo Duk Kwan as I understand it.
> 
> ...


 
I have that book (1st and 2th volume)...really well done!


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## rmclain (Jun 20, 2008)

terryl965 said:


> It is funny when I tell people I am MDK TKD they all tell me I am TSD and I tell them no. So much for that anyway there are alot of folks that hold true to MDK TKD even though they teach the new form for there school for competition sake.
> 
> The KKW does not have a great curriculum that goes out to all KKW school they have become a certified mill over the years because people need these certificate to really compete at certain events.


 
Hi Terry,

I thought you said you were Oh Do Kwan.

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showpost.php?p=704164&postcount=2

R. McLain


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## terryl965 (Jun 20, 2008)

rmclain said:


> Hi Terry,
> 
> I thought you said you were Oh Do Kwan.
> 
> ...


 
The highlighted part is what I said see the maybe since I have train in few kwons era's I guess I can say this MDK, JDK, ODK and ITF, I have done alot of different styles of TKD over the years but I always say KKW for sure.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





*Oh do kwan maybe mis-spelled but really I'm KKW all the way not WTF or anything else*


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## tkd1964 (Jun 20, 2008)

I think when it comes to the schools outside of Korea, some have tended to keep teaching the original Kwan ways while maintaining KKW membership. I only had a short experience with Han Moo Kwan but they taught the Palgue forms and, at the time, new Tae Guk forms. Most of the MDK schools around me were TSDMDK or SBDMDK but I don't remember any that were TKDMDK.


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