# Low center of gravity



## terryl965 (Jun 1, 2008)

How do you really feel about the lower stances in Okinawa Karate, what has it really doen for you?


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## exile (Jun 1, 2008)

Terry, I can't really speak for Okinawan karate, but we do very low stances in my TKD dojang, and are encouraged to always go lower, and the reason is this: stances in our system aren't stances really, but movements to either shift weight into a technique ('front stance'), or to anchor yourself while you pull the attacker into a technique ('back stance'). And the way to really _emphasize_ that projection of weight, or fixing of weight to anchor the tech, is to go lowyou're really conscious of it then. Over and over, we hear (and teach), you don't fight from a fixed stance, you fight fluidly, but in some cases (like a lock or pin) you want to drive your weight into the move to force the trapped attacker's upper body down so you can finish them with a hard strike at the neck, throat, face, eyes or templehence the front 'stance'or fix your weight to establish leverage for a throw (aka the 180º pivots that show up in most of the Palgwes) or to keep the attacker trapped while you uncork a knifehand strike to their throat, carotid sinus or wherever (aka 'knifehand "block"', heh heh). The lower the stances, the more you are aware of how the correct positioning of your bodyweight contributes to these techniques. 

The ideal is, you move fluidly in combat but mobilize your bodyweight to help make the attacker a sitting duck for your terminating strikes.


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## Kacey (Jun 1, 2008)

Can't really speak to Okinawan Karate myself either, but I do have some thoughts on this topic.  There are pros and cons to having a lower center of gravity.  People who habitually stay lower tend to have very strong legs from maintaining the stance; their stances tend to be very solid.  People who stand higher are generally more mobile.  The key, to me, is to train with both so that you get the benefits of both, are comfortable with both, and are able to shift between them as the situation warrants.


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## arnisador (Jun 1, 2008)

It's really Japanese karate that has the low stances--they're typically much higher in Okinawan karate.


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## Jai (Jun 1, 2008)

Since I have started Shotokan I have been hearing "LOWER DEEPER STANCES" more then anything. I have noticed an improvement in my stance to stance transitions and power actually. Everything for me is smoother. That and my thighs are screaming in horrid pain after working out.


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## morph4me (Jun 2, 2008)

I can't speak about the lower stances in Okinawan Karate, but I do have some theories about lowering the center. I believe this is another case of a training method that turned into a technique. In aikido, judo, jujitsu and other arts that secialize in throws, it's common knowledge that the lower your center the more stability you have and the harder it is to throw you. Lowering the center is accomplished by bending the knees, but like anything else, when teaching there tends to be an overexaggeration in how much to bend them, knowing that with experience, you'll lbend your knees less to accomplish the same result. It doesn't take alot of drop to gain stability, but over the years, the beginners excercise became the stance. It's only a theory and it's worth exactly what you paid for it.


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## punisher73 (Jun 2, 2008)

It depends on the purpose for the low stance.  Typically, the Okinawan styles did not get too low and remained more mobile.

In Goju-Ryu (and Isshin-Ryu), for example, they use a stance called "seiuchin" that is the feet are slightly wider than shoulder width and the feet turned out at a 45 degree angle, you sink your weight down and the knees are bent at about a 45 degree angle as well.  Seiuchin kata, where this stance is introduced and used is a "grappling" kata, and the stance is very similiar to one you use in Judo.  It's main purpose is to lower the center of gravity while clinching/grappling with your opponent.

To go back a little in a southern shaolin style like Hung Gar, the purpose of a very low horse stance is to train the body.  By standing in the stance for long periods of time, the body makes an adjustment from relying on muscles to hold you up to relying on the joints and ligaments to carry the bulk. Not to just build leg strength although it will do that too.

Also, many times people mistake "getting lower" with "rooting", you don't have to be super low to be able to root yourself.

The key is balance, you want to have a low enough stance to have good stability for what you need, but you need to stay mobile enough to respond as well.


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## chinto (Jun 4, 2008)

the lowest stance in Okinawan karate is basically shiko dachi ( sumo stance is often the nick name for it.)  it is used to lower your center of gravity and move you away from a punch or for a throw or other grappling as well, or to change up targets and allow you to brake their balance while striking or grappling.  but all the stances do the same thing to one extent of other. move you out of the way of an attack or assist you in completing your techniques while putting your attacker in an untenable or disadvantaged position.


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## Imua Kuntao (Jun 5, 2008)

The stances in Shorin-ryu Orthodox were very short and tall for quick stepping, instructors who teach long low stances want you to close the gap like that of largo mano and maybe even silat type techniques. Low front stance w/left upward block (remember when low you lower target points on your body are covered so you must protect your upper body), you come toward yor attacker/opponent with punch-takedow using your arms and legs against attackers leg.


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## punisher73 (Jun 5, 2008)

chinto said:


> the lowest stance in Okinawan karate is basically shiko dachi ( sumo stance is often the nick name for it.) it is used to lower your center of gravity and move you away from a punch or for a throw or other grappling as well, or to change up targets and allow you to brake their balance while striking or grappling. but all the stances do the same thing to one extent of other. move you out of the way of an attack or assist you in completing your techniques while putting your attacker in an untenable or disadvantaged position.


 
That was the name for the stance!  LOL I only could remember the Goju name for it, and not what other styles called it.  Seuichin=Shiko Dachi


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## Karatekid990 (Jun 5, 2008)

Low center of gravity for me helped me keep balance when i get hit in sparring. Most times when I'm up high and get hit I usually stumble which gives my opponent a chance to score.


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## chinto (Jun 6, 2008)

punisher73 said:


> That was the name for the stance!  LOL I only could remember the Goju name for it, and not what other styles called it.  Seuichin=Shiko Dachi



yes yhoanchin dachi and sanchin dachi and shiko dachi are the stances that I can remember in seuichin kata.  though that is one I am just starting to learn... its one of the last kata taught in the style i study.


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## Brandon Fisher (Jun 9, 2008)

In Shorin ryu most of the time the stances are much higher but very rooted in the ground during a striking or blocking technique.  We usually lower our stance doing a grappling type technique in Tuite or during nage waza.  Otherwise we are very upright and mobile.


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## chinto (Jun 12, 2008)

punisher73 said:


> That was the name for the stance!  LOL I only could remember the Goju name for it, and not what other styles called it.  Seuichin=Shiko Dachi


no sanchin dachi is different.  it has the front foot at 45 digrees and the back foot strait..  shiko dachi is the low squating stance that many kung fu types call horse stance with feet at 90 degrees from each other and knees out as wide as you can.. thighs almost flat.


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## punisher73 (Jun 12, 2008)

chinto said:


> no sanchin dachi is different. it has the front foot at 45 digrees and the back foot strait.. shiko dachi is the low squating stance that many kung fu types call horse stance with feet at 90 degrees from each other and knees out as wide as you can.. thighs almost flat.


 

I know what sanchin dachi is.  Seiunchin has both feet turned OUT at a 45 degree angle.  Here is a video clip showing the kata.  In Isshin-ryu this stance is named after the kata..thus Seiuchin stance.


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## Daniel Sullivan (Jun 12, 2008)

Being tall and slim, I tend to keep a lower stance when doing forms unless I'm in a walking stance; I look off ballance otherwise.  It has helped; my forms look much better.

Daniel


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## Brandon Fisher (Jun 12, 2008)

punisher73 said:


> I know what sanchin dachi is. Seiunchin has both feet turned OUT at a 45 degree angle. Here is a video clip showing the kata. In Isshin-ryu this stance is named after the kata..thus Seiuchin stance.


That is the way I was taught Shiko Dachi also so really same stance different name as I originally thought.


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## Live True (Jun 12, 2008)

We're taught that sanchin dachi is hips tucked under, knees slightly bent so your legs are solid but flexible like steel springs, shoulders/lats drawn down to protect body, back foot is straight (heel can be slightly out), and front foot is angled with toe in aprx 30 degrees.), etc.  The idea is to protec the body and provide a solid, rooted core.

I am only beginning to learn all the stances and reasons behind them, but my style, Uechi, often focuses on controlling the center and balance of yourself and your opponent.  It would follow, that having a lower stance might also aid in quickly uprooting an oppponent if you can get up under them....that is my current thoughts

i look forward to reading more form the more knowledgeable here!


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## chinto (Jun 12, 2008)

punisher73 said:


> I know what sanchin dachi is.  Seiunchin has both feet turned OUT at a 45 degree angle.  Here is a video clip showing the kata.  In Isshin-ryu this stance is named after the kata..thus Seiuchin stance.




ok sorry I guess I misunderstood you..  we teach seiuchin and sanchin kata in our system too.   if you are an isshin ryu student then O'sensei  is your founders younger brother. ( Ezio Shimubukuro.)  the founder of the style was Master Chotoku Kyan.


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