# BEST MMA fighter of all time?



## Champ-Pain (Jun 6, 2011)

I realize that MMA is a relatively new sport... Who do you consider to be the BEST ever MMA fighter of all time? Here are some choices - but you can name your own if it's not on the list.

1) the Natural - Randy Couture
2) Royce Gracie
3) the Spider - Anderson Silva
4) Rush - GSP
5) the Prodigy - B.J. Penn


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## sfs982000 (Jun 6, 2011)

1.  GSP
2.  Randy Couture
3.  Anderson Silva
4.  Royce Gracie
5.  Brock Lesner


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## Steve (Jun 6, 2011)

1.  Fedor Emelianenko
2:  GSP
3:  Anderson Silva
4:  Shinya Aoki
5:  Randy Couture

Up and Comer:  Jason Jones.


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## OzPaul (Jun 6, 2011)

1.) Fedor Emelianenko
2.) Mirko Cro Cop
3.) Anderson Silva
4.) BJ Penn
5.) Bas Rutten


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## Steve (Jun 6, 2011)

OzPaul said:


> 1.) Fedor Emelianenko
> 2.) Mirko Cro Cop
> 3.) Anderson Silva
> 4.) BJ Penn
> 5.) Bas Rutten


 Cro Cop?  Hmmm...  I can maybe cede BJ Penn...  but Cro Cop?  He's top...  10 heavy weights maybe...  top 15 all time... maybe...  but number 2?


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## OzPaul (Jun 6, 2011)

I thought we were going off who our favourites are...  and i like Mirko.  I can't create 1 to 5 list of the greatest though as i'm biased.  Some notable mentions are of course, Randy, Chuck, Royce, GSP and Minowaman


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## LuckyKBoxer (Jun 7, 2011)

the sport is to damn young to have a best of all time list yet.
the sport is still evolving, trainers and fighters are still experimenting with things, the fighter base is still relatively small.
no there is no best mma fighter of all time list yet..
plenty of great fighters, but no list


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## punisher73 (Jun 7, 2011)

Agreed, I wouldn't put Royce Gracie on the list of all time great MMA fighters because he wasn't an MMA fighter.  He was a GJJ stylist and only used that when everyone else was also just using one style.  Royce hasn't really fought an MMA fighter except for Hughes and he got pounded by him, in fact, Royce's only wins have been against guys that fought only one style (Sakuraba was a catch wrestler, whom Royce beat the second time around, but then tested positive for steriods for that fight).

Was he a pioneer for the sport? ABSOLUTELY!  Just not an all time great for MMA.

Some of the other ones fall into that category as well, they were in the sport when it was too young and are now too old to really compete at the top of the pack now.  Should they be hall of famers? Yep.  In fact, they really developed how many people approached the game.  

For example,

Royce Gracie: Need for the ground game/BJJ
Dan Severn: Started the ground and pound, which lead many wrestlers to the sport
Randy Couture: Wrestling clinch game & dirty boxing
Maurice Smith:  Brought back successful striking/kicking to the sport
Chuck Liddell:  Takedown defense and standing back up to strike

The list can go on and on, they weren't the only ones that used those, but really brought those to the forefront that changed the way people approached it as they integrated skill sets.


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## Tez3 (Jun 7, 2011)

LuckyKBoxer said:


> the sport is to damn young to have a best of all time list yet.
> the sport is still evolving, trainers and fighters are still experimenting with things, the fighter base is still relatively small.
> no there is no best mma fighter of all time list yet..
> plenty of great fighters, but no list


 
Exactly!
 You can't base it all on one promotion either as many people didn't watch Pride when it was at it's best and have only come to the sport since the UFC got bigger. They don't watch the fights in other countries so don't know how MMA is evolving other than in the UFC. When MMA is better known globally and competitions between countries becomes common then we will start seeing who is shaping up to become candidates for 'best MMA fighter of all time'


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## Champ-Pain (Jun 7, 2011)

sfs982000 said:


> 1. GSP
> 2. Randy Couture
> 3. Anderson Silva
> 4. Royce Gracie
> 5. Brock Lesner


 Brock Lesner? How about Cain Velasquez and Frank Mir? I think they both should rank ahead of Brock.


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## punisher73 (Jun 7, 2011)

JudoChampion said:


> Brock Lesner? How about Cain Velasquez and Frank Mir? I think they both should rank ahead of Brock.


 
Agree, Cain Velasquez has not had a single defense of his title yet.  He is very new to the sport compared to many others, so only time will tell his place.

Brock Lesnar was beat down by Cain Velasquez.  Lesnar has spent more time off with his illness that actively defending his title.  Again, how he comes back and the rest of his career will determine his place.


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## Tez3 (Jun 7, 2011)

JudoChampion said:


> Brock Lesner? How about Cain Velasquez and Frank Mir? I think they both should rank ahead of Brock.


 

Frank Mir got smashed to pieces by Ian Freeman. Didn't have much to offer against Ian.


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## Champ-Pain (Jun 7, 2011)

Tez3 said:


> Frank Mir got smashed to pieces by Ian Freeman. Didn't have much to offer against Ian.


 Yeah, a long time ago, without having trained properly for the fight. Different Mir than now.


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## Tez3 (Jun 7, 2011)

JudoChampion said:


> Yeah, a long time ago, without having trained properly for the fight. Different Mir than now.


 

Not that long ago and a 'great' fighter doesn't not train for a big fight, that's just an excuse for why he lost. I know Ian very well, he has good ground skills and very heavy hands, he beat Mir, no excuses.


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## Champ-Pain (Jun 7, 2011)

Tez3 said:


> Not that long ago and a 'great' fighter doesn't not train for a big fight, that's just an excuse for why he lost. I know Ian very well, he has good ground skills and very heavy hands, he beat Mir, no excuses.


 I've seen him fight a few times. BIG brawler, not much of a stylist or technician. Mir didn't train for that fight, he was fat, outta shape, outta gas, slow, and way off on his timing. Ian was (just like your KBoxer friend) lucky to get a fight vs Mir at that time, otherwise, luck would not have played a roll...

... Ian did win that fight, but it would not happen again today, or any other day - for the rest of time.


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## Tez3 (Jun 7, 2011)

JudoChampion said:


> I've seen him fight a few times. BIG brawler, not much of a stylist or technician. Mir didn,t train for that fight, he was fat, outta shape, outta gas, slow, and way off on his timing, Ian was (just like your KBoxer friend) lucky to get a fight vs Mir at that time, otherwise, luck would not have played a roll.


 
What Kboxer friend? 

Ian isn't a brawler, you know very little about him if you say that. Have you seen his fights in Russia for instance or his fights here, were you at the Mir v Freeman fight? Don't make excuses for Mir, he was lucky to get a fight in the UK, we didn't want him particularly.


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## Champ-Pain (Jun 7, 2011)

Tez3 said:


> What Kboxer friend? "LuckyKBoxer" it was in jest!
> 
> Ian isn't a brawler, you know very little about him if you say that. Have you seen his fights in Russia for instance or his fights here, were you at the Mir v Freeman fight? Don't make excuses for Mir, he was lucky to get a fight in the UK, we didn't want him particularly.


 I have never seen him live, not in Russia or anywhere else. The few times I've seen him was on PPV at UFC events. Each time, he came out and brawled, throwing looping, wild, crazy punches - same as he did vs MIR.

Either way, I'm not making excuses for Mir, only pointing out that Mir has been the UFC heavy weight champion and is still a top contender. Where is Ian and what has he done for you lately?

Please, lets not fight back and forth about this - I believe we were just starting to appreciate each other. Lets move on - shall we?

BTW - You can have the last word on this - then it's over. Thanks


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## elder999 (Jun 7, 2011)

JudoChampion said:


> I realize that MMA is a relatively new sport... Who do you consider to be the BEST ever MMA fighter of all time? Here are some choices - but you can name your own if it's not on the list.
> 
> 1) the Natural - Randy Couture
> 2) Royce Gracie
> ...



Dioxippus of Athens./


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## Tez3 (Jun 7, 2011)

JudoChampion said:


> I have never seen him live, not in Russia or anywhere else. The few times I've seen him was on PPV at UFC events. Each time, he came out and brawled, throwing looping, wild, crazy punches - same as he did vs MIR.
> 
> Either way, I'm not making excuses for Mir, only pointing out that Mir has been the UFC heavy weight champion and is still a top contender. Where is Ian and what has he done for you lately?
> 
> ...


 
I think we must have been watching different fights.

Where is Ian? he's retired, has a gym, trains fighters, runs seminars around the world, MCs, makes DVDs, television programmes and films. We take our fighters up to him and he comes down when he can. He's MCing at our next show ( pro shows btw, Bisping had his pro fight debut on ours) which is for charity, the Scot's Guard's welfare fund. Yeah, he's a mate, has been for over a decade.


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## Steve (Jun 7, 2011)

Okay.  Since Lucky and Tez are being spoilsports (tongue in cheek, guys), I'll go ahead and throw out some of the criteria for "best ever" in my opinion.

Before I do, though, I just want to say that what Fight Metric is now doing with the major events is AWESOME.  While it will always be somewhat subjective, for guys (and gals) who are passionate about the sport, it will take the level of the conversation that much higher.

Now, before anyone gets uptight, this sight is starting with the major promotions, like Strikeforce, UFC, Dream and WEC.  It's awesome and just going to get... errr... awesomer as time goes on.  

For example. Here's Ian Freeman.  And here's Frank Mir.  If you look at the records and the quality of their opponents, Frank's got a clear edge with regards to impact on the sport. However, I wouldn't put him near the top 10 ever.

Again, this isn't quite ready for prime time, but I'm enjoying watching it grow.

So anyway... getting back to criteria.  I'd go with the following (in no particular order):

1:  Record
2:  Quality of competition (who did they beat?)
3:  Impact on the sport (in other words, were they so good at something that they changed the look of the sport).
4:  Legacy

So, for example, Royce Gracie might not be able to compete with today's well rounded MMA'ist.  But he was a pioneer in the sport, and was integral in shaping it.


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## Tez3 (Jun 7, 2011)

Well, 'best' fighter ever is a bit premature isn't it, we haven't seen the UFC go totally WWE yet lol, won't be long though!

On Ian Freeman though, he didn't starting fighting till he was in his early thirties so take heart all those who post on here in their 20s asking if it's too late!

My personal 'best' ever fighter has to be Rosi Sexton of course!


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## Champ-Pain (Jun 7, 2011)

Tez3 said:


> Well, 'best' fighter ever is a bit premature.


 O.K. then, lets change my original question from "BEST ever" to "BEST to date".


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## punisher73 (Jun 7, 2011)

Tez3 said:


> Ian isn't a brawler, you know very little about him if you say that. Have you seen his fights in Russia for instance or his fights here, were you at the Mir v Freeman fight? Don't make excuses for Mir, he was lucky to get a fight in the UK, we didn't want him particularly.


 

Freeman had 18 fights when he fought Mir, who was at his 4th professional fight and first international fight at the beginning of his career.  Can't really compare the two from then till now since they were both at very different points.


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## Tez3 (Jun 7, 2011)

punisher73 said:


> Freeman had 18 fights when he fought Mir, who was at his 4th professional fight and first international fight at the beginning of his career. Can't really compare the two from then till now since they were both at very different points.


 

It's very difficult to compare fighters anyway, people have different prefences in what they look for a 'good' fighter. Coming from different backgrounds fighters are hard to classify though that's what makes the sport. You can't even go by how many fights they win. I think rather than a 'best' thread it should be a 'favourite' fighter thread and why.


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## LuckyKBoxer (Jun 7, 2011)

JudoChampion said:


> O.K. then, lets change my original question from "BEST ever" to "BEST to date".


 
I will tell you my opinion of the best current fighters.

1. Anderson Silva
2. John Jones
3. George St Pierre
4. Cain Velasquez
5. Frankie Edgar

I think I would put them in that order as well pound for pound.

those are the guys to beat at this time, the guys everyone else in the respective weight classes are trying to plan ways to beat. The guys whos style and trainers are shaping the current lay of the MMA land.
ask me in 3 months it has a good chance of being different.

now want a top list of fighters in their prime? give me a ruleset to make a list under..
so many rulesets have been used, rules make the difference by far in regards to who is top or not.


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## Tez3 (Jun 7, 2011)

That's the chaps done, now for the ladies. Any takers? I'm off to take kids class, it's gone 1800h here, I'll do mine when I get back after training.


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## Champ-Pain (Jun 7, 2011)

Tez3 said:


> I think rather than a 'best' thread it should be a 'favourite' fighter thread and why.


 O.K. then - start your own thread!


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## Champ-Pain (Jun 7, 2011)

LuckyKBoxer said:


> I will tell you my opinion of the best current fighters.
> 
> 1. Anderson Silva
> 2. John Jones
> ...


Great list! I can't believe I forgot to include Jon Jones on my list - he's probably the most impressive of all, at this stage. Franky Edgar, however, still has some proving to do IMHO.


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## Steve (Jun 7, 2011)

LuckyKBoxer said:


> I will tell you my opinion of the best current fighters.
> 
> 1. Anderson Silva
> 2. John Jones
> ...


I'd say for most it would have to be the ruleset under which they fought.


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## Steve (Jun 7, 2011)

JudoChampion said:


> Great list! I can't believe I forgot to include Jon Jones on my list - he's probably the most impressive of all, at this stage. Franky Edgar, however, still has some proving to do IMHO.


LOL..  I thought I said Jon Jones, but I actually said Jason Jones.  Must have been thinking about the Daily Show.  

Jon Jones, out of Greg Jackson's camp, is really good.  Young, dynamic and creative on the mats.  Fun to watch.  As I said earlier, it's a little too early to know what his legacy in the sport will be, but he's off to a rousing start.


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## LuckyKBoxer (Jun 7, 2011)

stevebjj said:


> I'd say for most it would have to be the ruleset under which they fought.


 
then we are comparing apples to oranges..

things like;
time limits
approved clothing/gis
legal or illegal targets
ring/cage/other and size of fighting surface
Bring a Gi into the equation with mma rules and that top 5 list will look much different.


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## Champ-Pain (Jun 7, 2011)

stevebjj said:


> Jon Jones, out of Greg Jackson's camp, is really good, dynamic, creative, fun to watch and he's off to a rousing start.


 At the rate he's going - I wouldn't be surprised if he winds up being the BEST ever, some day in the near future... I don't know who can touch him at this point. Certainly none of the top guys in his division have much of a change against him... that would include Rashad, Rampage, Machida, Shogun or anyone else I can think of.


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## Champ-Pain (Jun 7, 2011)

LuckyKBoxer said:


> then we are comparing apples to oranges..
> 
> 
> Bring a Gi into the equation with mma rules and that top 5 list will look much different.


 Yeah, but a Gi belongs on the mat - not the octagon, unless your name is Royce Gracie, it's more of a hinder than an advantage to wear a Gi with MMA rules, for most of us.


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## LuckyKBoxer (Jun 7, 2011)

Tez3 said:


> That's the chaps done, now for the ladies. Any takers? I'm off to take kids class, it's gone 1800h here, I'll do mine when I get back after training.


 
Unfortunately I am not to up to speed on the ladies that are currently fighting.

from what I do know, and the fights I have seen.. I would make my top 5 as..

1. Cris Cyborg
2. Zoila Gurgel
3. Sarah Kaufmann
4. Tara Larosa
5. Miesha Tate

like I said, I am not following the ladies as much.
I watch, but I am simply not impressed with the group as a whole. Some good well rounded fighters, but such a small fighter base to choose from that its way to limited in the matchups.


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## LuckyKBoxer (Jun 7, 2011)

JudoChampion said:


> Yeah, but a Gi belongs on the mat - not the octagon, unless your name is Royce Gracie, it's more of a hinder than an advantage to wear a Gi with MMA rules, for most of us.


 
Its got advantages and disadvantages, I think it would give a greater advantage to Sambo, Judo, and Jiu Jitsu guys, and a disadvantage to wrestling guys.


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## Champ-Pain (Jun 7, 2011)

LuckyKBoxer said:


> Its got advantages and disadvantages, I think it would give a greater advantage to Sambo, Judo, and Jiu Jitsu guys, and a disadvantage to wrestling guys.


 Wrestling guys, and all standup fighters as well. That would include - Muay Thai, Boxing, Karate, etc.


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## Tez3 (Jun 7, 2011)

JudoChampion said:


> O.K. then - start your own thread!


 
No, your title said' Best MMA fighter of all time' that includes the women, you didn't say best male fighter.


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## Champ-Pain (Jun 7, 2011)

Tez3 said:


> No, your title said' Best MMA fighter of all time' that includes the women, you didn't say best male fighter.


 You know I was talking about you wanting to change the thread title to "favorite" instead of "best" fighter - having nothing to do with women. 

Cyborg would be the #1 woman fighter in the world - followed by Gina "Conviction" Carrano and Spikey's little sister, Li'l Kimberly "Wonder Girl" G. - LOL

You can view some of her matches at: http://www.youtube.com/user/giansteph then hit upload 19 at top righthand side and scroll down. It'll be worth it.


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## elder999 (Jun 7, 2011)

No, really, the best MMA fighter of _*"all time*_" was Dioxippus of Athens.


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## Champ-Pain (Jun 8, 2011)

elder999 said:


> No, really, the best MMA fighter of _*"all time*_" was Dioxippus of Athens.


 Some say it was Chacka Zulu.

IMHO - the all time best, to date - based on what they did during their era:

1) R. Gracie
2) R. Couture
3) V. Silva
4) A. Silva
5) ??? ???

Future List:

1) Jon Jones
2) Cain Velasquez
3) Anderson Silva
4) Jose Aldo
5) GSP  

Favorite List:

1) Spikey
2) Cain Velasquez
3) GSP
4) Randy Couture
5) Chuck Liddle


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## Tez3 (Jun 8, 2011)

Gina Carano is an appalling fighter, she never makes weight and if you don't accept that she will fight overweight her promotion won't pay you your purse and expenses.

 It's Shaka Zulu.

I won't make a thread on favourite fighters, it's been done to death. Most lists just have UFC fighters on, no internationals other than those than fight in UFC and none from other promotions.


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## LuckyKBoxer (Jun 8, 2011)

Tez3 said:


> Gina Carano is an appalling fighter, she never makes weight and if you don't accept that she will fight overweight her promotion won't pay you your purse and expenses.
> 
> It's Shaka Zulu.
> 
> I won't make a thread on favourite fighters, it's been done to death. Most lists just have UFC fighters on, no internationals other than those than fight in UFC and none from other promotions.


 
I get that you are anti UFC, but there is no equal when it comes to accumulated talent.
there are good and great fighters elsewhere, and while any well trained and well prepared athlete has a chance in his prospective weight classes the fact of the matter is the talent is the best in the ufc, its been proven time and time again.
there is not a fighter on the planet who will honestly say I do not want to be a part of the UFC... they might not like the contracts, and other things, but the UFC is where its at in regards to top fighters.

i kind of agree on Gina now... she still loves fighting, but I do not think it is her passion any longer, I do not think she has the hunger anymore.. being a movie star, sex symbol, sought after personality, etc has become her new passion... and good for her. but I would not put her in my top list anymore... she can still hang in there with anyone I think, but her heart is what i question atm.


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## Tez3 (Jun 8, 2011)

LuckyKBoxer said:


> I get that you are anti UFC, but there is no equal when it comes to accumulated talent.
> there are good and great fighters elsewhere, and while any well trained and well prepared athlete has a chance in his prospective weight classes the fact of the matter is the talent is the best in the ufc, its been proven time and time again.
> there is not a fighter on the planet who will honestly say I do not want to be a part of the UFC... they might not like the contracts, and other things, but the UFC is where its at in regards to top fighters.
> 
> i kind of agree on Gina now... she still loves fighting, but I do not think it is her passion any longer, I do not think she has the hunger anymore.. being a movie star, sex symbol, sought after personality, etc has become her new passion... and good for her. but I would not put her in my top list anymore... she can still hang in there with anyone I think, but her heart is what i question atm.


 

No I'm not anti UFC, I'd just like people to see more than the UFC. There's good fighters in many countries where theres no UFC. I'm not sure about every fighter wanting to be in the UFC, I know a couple who have said no, one of who did fight on it once and said never again. I want people to see beyond just the UFC, there's other promotions in the States and there's promotions who are bigger than the UFC in their own countries. I worry that the UFC is going to turn our sport into another version of pro wrestling, making more and more rules to stifle fighters as well as having more and more fake characterisations and smack talk. It's encouraging a fan base of yobs who know little about martial arts but all want to be ''cage fighters cos they're 'ard'.'  I don't believe that the UFC has the integrity and honesty in martial arts that many of us would like to see. Idealistic, maybe, but we have to try to raise the game if we want to get MMA to a place where we can be proud of saying we do MMA. 

Gina may have good skills but is so unprofessional it hurts! We are trying to build women's MMA up, to encourage women martial artists in to fight and she refuses to make weight making excuses instead. it just makes it harder for other female fighters, try persuading promoters to take womens fights when some one so high profile can't be professional.


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## LuckyKBoxer (Jun 8, 2011)

Tez3 said:


> Gina may have good skills but is so unprofessional it hurts! We are trying to build women's MMA up, to encourage women martial artists in to fight and she refuses to make weight making excuses instead. it just makes it harder for other female fighters, try persuading promoters to take womens fights when some one so high profile can't be professional.


 
I can't argue with any of that, the key is focusing on the other women. I posted 5 who are professional, and who seem to tkae it serious. Just have to find a way to have the focus shifted from Gina(arguably the posterchild for womens MMA in the states)
unfortunately although Cris Cyborg is taking it seriously her looks and physique make her an unfortunate posterchild for many. Too many people who pay the money still want to see their women in bikinis and ring cards.. I am not so sure that problem will ever have a solution either unfortunately.


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## Tez3 (Jun 8, 2011)

At the moment there's too many people want to see two heavyweight men standing toe to toe punching each other, boxing really. and yes the girls will be there in bikinis and ring cards, quite neanderthal really. 
The UFC won't accept womens fights, another bone of contention for me I'm afraid. Two of my friends have fought in America, Lisa Higo who had three fights in one night to win the belt and Rosi Sexton. Rosi has also fought in Japan where women's MMA is more advanced. 

While it may be the richest promotion around UFC is not the bench mark for everyone, when it's here we still don't have full houses, Cage Rage and now Bamma have bigger crowds here. One reason is that the UFC charges a fortune for tickets. The rules are different between promotions as was mentioned before so to say fighter X is the best fighter is pointless, can he/she fight under all rules? Can they cope with the Pride stomps or the soccer kicks? spinning elbows etc. etc. While most of us definitely do not want MMA in the Olympics that sort of competition would, however, give us more of an idea of a 'best fighter'.


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## Champ-Pain (Jun 8, 2011)

Tez3 said:


> It's Shaka Zulu.


 Thanks for the correction - but you obviously knew who I meant... I was actually thinking of Chacka Khan (not sure on the spelling either). LOL


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## Steve (Jun 8, 2011)

Tez, don't be a hater.  Two of the five fighters I listed never fought in the UFC.  

But there is something to be said for relative impact on the sport and level of competition.  To be the best, you have to fight the best.  If I knew anything at all about soccer, I'm positive I could come up with a suitable analogy. 

Personally, I think you're just being stubborn.


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## Lee Mainprize (Jul 22, 2011)

My favourite mma fighters.

Chuck - the Ice man - left out all out on the mats every time.
GSP - tactics and training to win on a whole another level.
John Jones - looks like a legend in the making freakish athlete.


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## Buka (Jul 22, 2011)

Lists are a lot of fun, they're just sometimes really difficult to put together. I think anyone who fights is great in their own way, it's such a difficult undertaking, especially MMA.

I think of the men who fought in UFC 1, no time limit, very few rules, no judges. And on a big stage to boot. Have to tip my cap to all of them, that must have been a very nervous night for all concerned.

Here's my list. It's no better than anyone else, just my choice of the best in MMA. In no particular order.

George Rush St Pierre. (what a class act)

Anderson the Spider Silva (Willie Pep reincarnated)

Bas Rutten

Jose Aldo

Dan Severn (he's in his fifties and still competing)

Cristiane Cyborg Santos (almost as tough as my wife) (no, really)

Randy The Natural Couture

Pat Militich

Cung Le (Holy cow, a kicker!)

Kazuki Sakabura

Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira

Jon Jones (I know it's early, but WOW)

Rickson Gracie (say what you want, but I feel that in a no time limit, no judging fight, he'd beat all of them)

Fedor The Last Emperor Emelianenko

Yuri Alcantara (watch for this guy, been around a long time, he's coming to the UFC this summer)

Matt Hughes (I don't care for Hughes, he rubs me the wrong way for some reason, but in his reign, wow, he was great)

I could go on, and I'm sure I've forgotten a few, but a list has to stop somewhere.


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