# Is it really just Hapkido



## ATC (Oct 26, 2010)

Han Moo Do or Hanmudo, is this really just Hapkido and TKD, or something different?


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## ATC (Oct 27, 2010)

Some clips of Han Moo Do if you have never seen it.
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## dancingalone (Oct 27, 2010)

If this is the Hanmudo of Dr. He Young Kimm, he does have ranking in both TKD and Hapkido.  He is a well-known early expert in Kuk Sool before leaving to start his own thing.

I've read more than once from hapkido people on the net that say that there is nothing in taekwondo that is not also in hapkido.  And if we accept that statement, then the sparring we see in those videos IS hapkido, only with a rule set that causes the players to emphasize certain techniques and strategies.


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## ATC (Oct 27, 2010)

dancingalone said:


> If this is the Hanmudo of Dr. He Young Kimm, he does have ranking in both TKD and Hapkido. He is a well-known early expert in Kuk Sool before leaving to start his own thing.
> 
> I've read more than once from hapkido people on the net that say that there is nothing in taekwondo that is not also in hapkido. And if we accept that statement, then the sparring we see in those videos IS hapkido, only with a rule set that causes the players to emphasize certain techniques and strategies.


Hmmm...So TKD and Hapkido are one and the same, not the Olympic stuff but TKD as an art?

Or did another art such as Kuk Sool or Subak just split and become two arts? And did these two arts simply keep some flavor of each other?

I know that in my TKD school we learn a lot of Hapkido type locks and throws at Black Belt level. I also see many Hapkido artist that kick fairly well and look like they have taken some TKD, some have and some have not.

So are the two arts based on the same things but with each emphasizing the focus of each in opposite order? TKD's focus being strikes with kicking and punching and the grappling being second, and Hapkido's focus being the grappling, with the kicks and punches being secondary.

So now is this Han Moo Do a blending of the two arts splitting the focus equally? Or simply bringing the one single art back to where it may have been at one time, or is this just Hapkido?


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## dancingalone (Oct 27, 2010)

ATC said:


> Hmmm...So TKD and Hapkido are one and the same, not the Olympic stuff but TKD as an art?



They are not in my outside opinion.  TKD is an evolution of  95% karate with the other 5% coming from other sources like Korean gong fu.  Hapkido is most likely Daito Ryu Aiki Jutsu, although the connection can't be proved through paper certification.  (Google this if you are interested... it's a long story filled with lots of feuding and harsh words on the internet as much lineage discussion is.)  The jujutsu arts from Japanese are entirely different from the Tode->Japanese Karate family of systems.



ATC said:


> Or did another art such as Kuk Sool or Subak just split and become two arts? And did these two arts simply keep some flavor of each other?



The history behind Kuk Sool is similarly cloudy like most Korean martial arts are.  Kuk Sool certainly inherited a great deal of technique from Choi Yong Sul, the founder of hapkido.  Kuk Sool also possesses an assortment of weapons studies and soft strikes and forms from other sources said to be Korean.  I think of Kuk Sool as a marriage of hapkido to Korean gong fu although the purists would likely object to that description.



ATC said:


> I know that in my TKD school we learn a lot of Hapkido type locks and throws at Black Belt level. I also see many Hapkido artist that kick fairly well and look like they have taken some TKD, some have and some have not.



Some hapkido looks a lot like TKD in execution of the kicks and joint locks.  Others are more circular and flowing and look more like the aikido I practice.  If you come across some old video of Bong Soo Han's group performing, I think their technique is very applicable for someone coming from the TKD world to emulate.



ATC said:


> *So are the two arts based on the same things* but with each emphasizing the focus of each in opposite order? TKD's focus being strikes with kicking and punching and the grappling being second, and Hapkido's focus being the grappling, with the kicks and punches being secondary.



Again, I would say no, but hopefully someone who actually studies hapkido can chime in.



ATC said:


> So now is this Han Moo Do a blending of the two arts splitting the focus equally? Or simply bringing the one single art back to where it may have been at one time, or is this just Hapkido?



I don't think Hanmudo is a blending of TKD and hapkido myself...


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## Daniel Sullivan (Oct 27, 2010)

ATC said:


> Han Moo Do or Hanmudo, is this really just Hapkido and TKD, or something different?


Neither, though from what I can see, it is closer to hapkido.  Kimm studied yudo, hapkido, ksw, and I believe TSD and TKD.  

Seems to me that it is put together from what he learned.  Given that his HKD background is his strongest, it is no surprise that it is closer to hkd, though he studied with enough people that it would be hard to pigeonhole his system.  I'm not familiar enough with it first hand to analyze it on a technical level.

Daniel


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## DMcHenry (Oct 28, 2010)

Dr. Kimm is one of the top Hapkido and Yudo players in the world, and one of the highest respected KMA historians without quesiton.  His HanMuDo is very close to a version of HKD is some of his other influences in there too, but most heavily influenced by HKD.  (at least from my view)


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## zDom (Oct 28, 2010)

According to students of Dr. Kimm in Cape Girardeau leading up to 1968 just before he handed over the school to his high school friend, the late Lee H. Park, in 1969:

Kimm was an extremely skilled Yudo expert at that time, was also teaching taekwondo, and encouraged Park to come to Cape Girardeau in part so Park could teach him hapkido.

They were both students of WON, Kwang-Hwa's Moosoolkwan hapkido school in Korea, with Park being the senior student.


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## hkdsean (Oct 30, 2010)

There are definitely similarities in a lot of these arts, but they are all definitely distinct.  

Dr. Kimm's Hanmudo system has pulled from a number of Korean martial arts, and the organization of curriculum and emphasis on techniques is unique enough to warrant being called it's own system.  

"I've read more than once from hapkido people on the net that say that there is nothing in taekwondo that is not also in hapkido."
"Hmmm...So TKD and Hapkido are one and the same, not the Olympic stuff but TKD as an art?"

The first statement says something very different from what the responder reads out of it.  The first statement says that HKD contains everything TKD does, it does not imply that the reverse is true.  

Though I can see where this comes from, I don't agree.  I am a HKD practitioner and I see the two as very distinct arts.  TKD does not have the vast joint locking and throwing repertoire of HKD, nor does it have the weapon development.  In my view, HKD does not have the forms or the sport sparring tradition, though this seems to be changing in many parts of the world.  Also, the HKD tradition that I learned has a very different style of kicking than that taught in a TKD system.  Just because both systems have front kicks, roundhouse kicks, etc... does not mean that they are taught and executed in the same way.

It is common for people to hold ranks in both of these arts, and teach them with considerable overlap and I believe this to be a misrepresentation of them as individual arts and has led to hybrid style that is neither HKD or TKD, but something different.  It is often instructors who teach TKD forms and kicking and the hoshinsul portion of their curriculum consists of a handful of joint locks and throws that they call HKD.


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## dortiz (Oct 31, 2010)

To add to that there is also a huge difference in how a same technique may be applied. A different flavor so to speak.
While both arts may block a punch, TKD will do so hard and linear so as to damage the arm while HKD will do so with the intent to block more softly and just enough to capture or move it in a certain direction. TKD will land firm and in a solid stance while HKD will move circular to combine the energy and technique off that point.  Just one example but the point is they may have similar techniques but style wise they teach and impliment a different stratagy. Not good or bad but yes, different.


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