# New trainee in FMA



## OCman44 (Sep 4, 2008)

Hello everyone,

I've been researching the Filipino Martial arts now for sometime and am highly interested in taking up training.  For me personally, once I start the training im not going to wan't to stop as I wan't to train in FMA for years to come. Fortunately I have two places that are rather local to me. One is the Inosanto academy and OC kickboxing(which trains in the inosanto styles).  I do however have a question regarding Kali.

1.  I've been reading a lot about Kali and how useful it is in real life self defence situations.  But, Im wondering what you guys, the community of those who have infact trained in Kali have any insight as to how effective Kali-Escrima-Silat is vs real life self defense situations?  I wan't to learn Kali for many reasons, one of them being self defense and Ive just been trying to find out from those who have trained in the art how effective it is in real life.

Any info on kali is appreciated,

Thank you


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## arnisador (Sep 4, 2008)

It's definitely effective--very realistic and flowing--and you have a fantastic school at which to study it! Go for it!


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## Brian R. VanCise (Sep 4, 2008)

I think you have found a really good school to go to.


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## OCman44 (Sep 4, 2008)

Brian R. VanCise said:


> I think you have found a really good school to go to.


 
Would you agree Mr. Vancise with Arnisador when he says its very realistic and effective in real life self defence situations?


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## Hawke (Sep 8, 2008)

If you attend the Inosanto Acamedy I recommend taking classes with Guro Victor on Fridays and Guro Marc Denny on Saturdays.  Guro Dan Inosanto travels on the weekends and only teaches Mondays thru Thurs.

Kali may or may not feel unsual to you at the start.  You might want to take the Wednesday afternoon class to get a feel for the basic angles and footwork.  

For the first two to three months you might get lost, but if you ask for help people are willing to slow down for you.  

Go visit different studios and meet with the instructors.  A good instructor will open you to a whole new world. 

Guro Dan Inosanto is a high level instructor that imparts his knowledge to other high level instructors and slow students like me. He also currently studies under other instructors as well.  Guro Dan Inosanto has a good reputation in the martial art community.

I have never been to the one in the OC branch, but I have heard good things about that place as well.

For self defense have you looked at Silat or Kenpo (EPAK)?  Other members here may offer other suggestions for a good self defense art.  Just remember that a good instructor is what you may want to seek.


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## OCman44 (Sep 10, 2008)

Hawke said:


> If you attend the Inosanto Acamedy I recommend taking classes with Guro Victor on Fridays and Guro Marc Denny on Saturdays. Guro Dan Inosanto travels on the weekends and only teaches Mondays thru Thurs.
> 
> Kali may or may not feel unsual to you at the start. You might want to take the Wednesday afternoon class to get a feel for the basic angles and footwork.
> 
> ...


 
In all honesty, no I havnt looked into Kempo or Silat.  Though, the OC kickboxing academy teaches Kali-Escrima-Silat.  When you say silat are you saying Kali silat or something different?  The reason why I wish to train in FMA is because I love the fluidity of the art and being told its a good self defense in real life.  Im not saying Im going to go out and pick fights but if a situation comes up where I must defend myself, I hope to have the upper hand being a trained FMA practicioner.

In terms of real life self defense, how effective is Kali vs a wild swinger?  Most fights I've seen whether it be videos or real life, the first few punches seem like thats the opportunity to use your Kali skills, than after that, most fights turn into a bunch of wild swingers.

The one thing I find interesting about Kali is how you train with sticks and move your way to different weapons.  What is the reason for the sticks?  Is it to learn the movements of the art where you can drop the stick and fight barehand or pick up anything in the vacinity to use using the same methods/techniques as the sticks?

Im trying to find out how effective Kali can be in a real life situation.   I've watched all the Bourne films and after watching all the special features,  Jeff Imada mentioned how they used Kali in it.  I know its a movie an all and its all stunts but can a well experienced Kali practicioner be pretty potent when the time arrises in real life?  Also, Silat, how effective is that?


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## arnisador (Sep 10, 2008)

OCman44 said:


> In terms of real life self defense, how effective is Kali vs a wild swinger?



You're going to have to try it, I'm afraid! I think you'll find it is effective against that--there is a long history of boxing in the Philippines.


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## OCman44 (Sep 10, 2008)

arnisador said:


> You're going to have to try it, I'm afraid! I think you'll find it is effective against that--there is a long history of boxing in the Philippines.


 

Yeah, I definately plan on trying it in the near future.  Im trying to work up some cash from work first.  Incomes low at the moment and I really wan't to start training in FMA pretty hardcore  I wan't to invest as much time as I can into it.

I've done a lot of research about the Filipino martial art.  I read that in the Kali martial art system, they train in "filipino boxing" or "Panantukan".  Is this true?  The Kali system at OC kickboxing or Inosanto academy, while training in Kali, is this Panantukan apart of the program?  Sorry for all the questions, Im just trying to learn as much as possible about Filipino martial arts.  I cannot wait to get started in it as Im learining more every day about it.


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## Hawke (Sep 11, 2008)

FMA sticks, blade, empty hands are similar in concepts of techniques.  

Depending on your level of experience you will see different aspects of the art.  One person might see a technique or kata and think it at one level and believe it to be total poo.  Another person will see the same thing and think how effective the technique may be in real life.

Look around the local schools and visit them.

Talk with the instructor.  Some instructors are pretty busy so maybe after or before class starts.

Kali is Filipino.

Silat can be found in the Malay archipelago (Indonesia, Malaysia, Brunei).

What may be effective for one person may or may not be effective for you.  The variables of instructor(s), the situation, the offender(s) and you and other variables I forgot to mention will not necessarily guarantee you a successful outcome.  You can do things to increase the probability to your favor.

You might want to consider training in a MA that lets you spar full to medium contact.  You will get a good idea of what's it like to hit and be hit.  

There's a Kenpo (EPAK) Studio run by Bryan Hawkins near the Inosanto Academy.  Those guys hit hard.

Bryan Hawkins
http://www.uks-kenpo.com/BHKK/

Bob White (Kenpo-EPAK)
http://www.bwkenpo.com/

Kajukenbo taught by John Bishop also has a good reputation.
John Bishop (Kajukenbo)
http://www.kajukenboinfo.com/

Living in Los Angeles you have your choice from many different styles and instructors.  Maybe you can work something out with the instructors and stay for a few months to check them out?


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## shrapnel (Sep 11, 2008)

One of the benefits of studying FMA is that it starts you off immediately with weapons. Most life-threatening encounters involve some type of weapon, so knowing what to do when faced with a weapon and knowing how to use one are definite advantages.

In most styles, the stick is a representation of the sword, but there are also styles where they treat the stick as a stick. Regardless, in the street you can still translate the stick to a multitude of improvised weapons such as a crowbar, MagLite, steel pipe or monkey wrench, among others. Same goes for the knife training (notice in the first Bourne movie how Jason Bourne uses a ballpoint pen as an improvised stabbing weapon). Again, this versatility affords one many advantages when trying to make the most out of a self defense situation.

But like any martial art, the FMA aren't a panacea. My teacher says that proper mindset and a strong will to live are very important, regardless of what martial art you're studying. I've heard that there are also posers who teach stuff that might get you killed on the street. Of course, since you're located near the Inosanto academy, this won't be too much of a problem for you.  Even more ideal would be to train under an instructor who has "street experience" so that he can more easily translate the lessons into practical self defense responses.


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## tshadowchaser (Sep 11, 2008)

You found a good school.  Visit it and watch a few classes.  Ask questions of the instructor and the students.  I think you would like it there.


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## MJS (Sep 11, 2008)

The FMAs are great!  I've been training for a while now and love it!  One of the things I enjoy about it, is the fact that pretty much everything is able to translate from empty hand, to stick, to blade.  The empty hand work is fantastic and very devastating.  

Can it be used in a real fight, versus a wild puncher, etc.?  Of course.  Keep in mind, that like any art, how you train it, plays a big part.  Putting yourself under some pressure will help you to really learn how to apply things. 

Mike


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## arnisador (Sep 11, 2008)

OCman44 said:


> I've done a lot of research about the Filipino martial art.  I read that in the Kali martial art system, they train in "filipino boxing" or "Panantukan".  Is this true?  The Kali system at OC kickboxing or Inosanto academy, while training in Kali, is this Panantukan apart of the program?



I've been to a seminar with Mr. Inosanto and he taught it then. I assume he does so at his school too. The weapons training in the FMAs improves one's empty hand work, but you'll have to try it to really feel how. But if yu can fight at weapons speed...everything else seems slow.


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## OCman44 (Sep 11, 2008)

Thanks guys for all the helpful replies!

So in other words, training with the sticks/different weapons is more so for cordination and to improve speed so that everything else comes natural and everything else seems slow?

I know I need to go down to the studios and watch/start my training but Im just tryin to have a couple questions answered here is all from all you experienced MA's who have trained in Kali.

In other words, Im just tryin to find out how effective Kali is vs real life and a majority if not all of you have said that it is and thats wonderful   Can't wait to start training in it.

Again, thanks guys for all your helpful replies.

P.S. I loved that fight scene in the Bourne Identity with the pen  was awesome and smoooooth.


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## MJS (Sep 11, 2008)

OCman44 said:


> So in other words, training with the sticks/different weapons is more so for cordination and to improve speed so that everything else comes natural and everything else seems slow?


 
Not necessarily.  Think of it as an extension of the hand.   Don't get me wrong, you will get coordination..lots of it, when you're using the sticks, but thats not all you get from it.  

For example:  If we were to look at the first stick disarm from Modern Arnis.  It can be done with a stick, empty hand and with a blade.  Certain adjustments need to be made, but for the most part, its the same movement.  Thats what I meant when I said that everything translates from empty hand to weapon. 

Mike


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## OCman44 (Sep 11, 2008)

MJS said:


> Not necessarily. Think of it as an extension of the hand.  Don't get me wrong, you will get coordination..lots of it, when you're using the sticks, but thats not all you get from it.
> 
> For example: If we were to look at the first stick disarm from Modern Arnis. It can be done with a stick, empty hand and with a blade. Certain adjustments need to be made, but for the most part, its the same movement. Thats what I meant when I said that everything translates from empty hand to weapon.
> 
> Mike


 

And thats what I love about Kali is that its interchangable in the sense that you can go from using a weapon, to using bare hands and still being just as effective. 

From what it sounds like, it seems that most of kali techniques are very similar whether your using a weapon or not.  When you train in lets say a dagger, the techniques can be transfered over to bare hand?  That's awesome


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## Guro Harold (Sep 11, 2008)

OCman44 said:


> And thats what I love about Kali is that its interchangable in the sense that you can go from using a weapon, to using bare hands and still being just as effective.
> 
> From what it sounds like, it seems that most of kali techniques are very similar whether your using a weapon or not. When you train in lets say a dagger, the techniques can be transfered over to bare hand? That's awesome


There are many techniques that are interchangable but adjustments might need to be implemented depending on the weapon, attack, or strategy.


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## OCman44 (Oct 4, 2008)

Today I got into it with a buddy of mine about me about to start training in Kali.  I told him to check out a few video clips on youtube just so he could get an idea as to what Kali is sorta like.  So he did and he immediately started pulling  a "one upper" by saying that it wouldnt be effective in a real fight or its more for show than anything.  He went on bragging about what he's training in which is MMA and how its more realistic and that someone thats trained in MMA would be able to destroy someone trained in Kali.  Thats one thing that I cannot stand about him is that everything and I mean EVERYTHING seems like its a competition with him.  

I was more so looking for an "oh that looks cool" answer instead I got into an argument about Kali with him which he knows NOTHING about kali to clarify that.

Where im going with this is Im wondering about those of you who have trained in kali know just how effective it is vs MMA.  Im not asking if a person trained In MMA went against someone who was trained in the filipino arts but Im asking if I came into a real life situation where I had to defend myself, which do you guys think would have a better outcome?  To me personally, MMA is more so just all ground fighting, or the "Ground and pound" techniques.  It seems like there's no fluidity or finesse involved.

My buddy thinks MMA would come out on top  and trust me, Ive researched MMA a lot and it just seems very unorthadox.  No discipline involed really.  Now I could be wrong but thats just what Ive learned and have seen.  

The thing that interests me about Kali is how you can adapt to any situation and still defend yourself pretty potently.


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## Guro Harold (Oct 4, 2008)

There will always be matters of opinion in just about everything in life.

While for every genre, there is a potential of a "Ford vs Chevy" conversation, we may also have to consider the individual skills of the driver.


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## OCman44 (Oct 4, 2008)

Guro Harold said:


> There will always be matters of opinion in just about everything in life.
> 
> While for every genre, there is a potential of a "Ford vs Chevy" conversation, we may also have to consider the individual skills of the driver.


 

This is a very true statement.

But in regards to MMA and Kali and their effectiveness in real life scenarios, which of the two do you think would be more effective?  I know they probably both would be, MMA to me seems more like I said, very unorthadox, nothing other than wild swinging and grappling on the ground type stuff.  Kali seems more effective vs a lot more types of fights, seing as MMA doesnt train in anything specific like kali does.  I do know Kali is a fighting system where MMA is more of a sport.


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## Guro Harold (Oct 4, 2008)

OCman44 said:


> This is a very true statement.
> 
> But in regards to MMA and Kali and their effectiveness in real life scenarios, which of the two do you think would be more effective? I know they probably both would be, MMA to me seems more like I said, very unorthadox, nothing other than wild swinging and grappling on the ground type stuff. Kali seems more effective vs a lot more types of fights, seing as MMA doesnt train in anything specific like kali does. I do know Kali is a fighting system where MMA is more of a sport.


The style someone knows to me is not as relavant as their training and mental prowess.

Someone who does MMA badly may not have a chance against someone who executes Kali superbly. Someone who is horrible in Kali may not have a chance against someone who has laser guided kicks.

Someone with a knife may have no training but could take out either a beginner Kali or MMA practitioner.

It goes back to how a person trains and can what they learn help them to be made more aware, avoid, and escape potentially harmful encounters.

So in that light, style becomes irrelevant while self-protection and self-preservation become key, with the two most realistic scenarios being soldiers/LEOs having to at times engage their skills because of duty or citizens having to protect themselves from harm.


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