# Crosstraining



## ArnisNewbie (Dec 4, 2003)

Hey guys

I have only been training for a couple of months and i am already thinking about doing so cross training...but i don't really know what art i should cross with...i have tried some Aikido but i found it to soft for my style but very effective indeed...then yesterday i took a class in Kung fu it was cool there was to much emphasis on Katas....

i am thinking about some shootfighting to improve my skills on the ground

but i just wanted to hear what you think.....

I know some of you would say...train Arnis for a longer periode so you get the basics...but i fell that i am capable of training another art as well without mixing it.....

Ideas?


----------



## chaosomega (Dec 4, 2003)

Yeah! Go for the shoot fighting. If you want to improve your ground skills, then do it! Stickfighting MAs like arnis usually mix well with shoot fighting. You can use sticks in submission as well...


----------



## DoxN4cer (Dec 4, 2003)

For ArnisNiewbie...

Where are you located and what types of schools are in the area?

I recommend that you try to find a kenpo school. You'll find that the movements compliment each other. One caviat there though, be mindful of the curriculum. If they emphasize tournament training over self defense you might want to think twice about signing up. 

Kung fu would be alright if it were something like San Soo or Wing Chun. Grappling systems like sambo, jujitsu and shuai chiao could really kick things up a notch if you lucky enough to have an instructor in your area.

One thing you might also consider: Go to another FMA school and train there. They just might be cross-training their people in other systems already, or at the very least you can see how other instructors in other systems help their students to connect the dots.

Respectfully,

Tim Kashino

PS...  Are you still training in Krav Maga? That would be a good place to turn for cross training.


----------



## ArnisNewbie (Dec 4, 2003)

To Doxn4cer

hey....i live in Denmark....and there are pleanty of schools, where i live is it possible to train....arnis, ninjutsu, shootfighting, kung fu (classical/animal style), jiu jitsu/judo, aikido, Krav Maga, wing Tsun, Karate, TKD, JKD ect...and i think it is possible to train Kenpo karate as well but i have to travle a bit to get there...
unfortunately there is only one FMA school in town...Arnis not very populair in Denmark, not many people know that it exists...

that's my choises....

I heard a lot about ED Parker and his Kenpo karate...and i find i interresting..because it has some of the same principles as arnis....

i have considered Shootfighting and i have also considered Kenpo karate or JKD...but the reason i haven't tried JKD is because it is an old Arnis Student from our school and he is only apprentice instructor...and i find that many of the things in JKD and Arnis are alike...


----------



## DoxN4cer (Dec 4, 2003)

Go with the Kenpo or Krav Maga if you are able to do so.

TK


----------



## MA-Caver (Dec 4, 2003)

My suggestion if it's worth anything to you... 
You've been training "for a couple of months" and already you're thinking of cross training... uhh not yet. 
It's usually a good idea to have a good base style to train and be profecient in before moving on to other arts. A year or two in the art you're in right now then you have a good base to branch out and not be confused when you go back to your base art.  
Why are you wanting to branch out so early? Stick with one for the time being...get up to a good rank before moving on. 
Sure it's fun to know a bit of this and a bit of that... I do but I learned the hard way that it's better to have a base to stand on before moving on. 

just my two bits.


----------



## ArnisNewbie (Dec 4, 2003)

Hey MACaver

hmm yeah as i wrote i know myself that it is a bit early to do crosstraining...i am well aware of the fact but i feel that i have completely control over the things i do and i can easily seperate two arts...my trainer find it a good ide to cross train also this early...and the cool thing about arnis is that if you learn something that is not a part of the program then you use it anyway...it is very flexible...I would do some shootfighting then..to improve my ground skills and then when i get more experienced i could crosstrain with kenpo or krav maga...

but anyway thanx for ya input..i will consider it...


----------



## Datu Tim Hartman (Dec 4, 2003)

> _Originally posted by MACaver _
> *My suggestion if it's worth anything to you...
> You've been training "for a couple of months" and already you're thinking of cross training... uhh not yet.
> It's usually a good idea to have a good base style to train and be profecient in before moving on to other arts. A year or two in the art you're in right now then you have a good base to branch out and not be confused when you go back to your base art.
> ...



I agree.:asian:


----------



## arnisador (Dec 4, 2003)

I'd agree with waiting a bit. When you're ready, the JKD has been a good add-on for me.


----------



## MJS (Dec 5, 2003)

What arts do you currently study and how long have you been training?  IMO, its good to get a base in 1 system before you move on to another one.  Also, what are your goals?  What do you want to get from your crosstraining?  Seeing as how there are so many arts to choose from, you should decide what you want first, and then pick.  For example, Kenpo is my base art.  I also train Arnis as well as BJJ.  I like the Kenpo because it gives me a wide selection of defenses against many different attacks.  I do the Arnis, because I feel that the Filipino arts rock!  They address weapons better than alot of the other arts and the empty hand stuff can really be devastating.  The BJJ rounds it out.  It gives you experience on the ground as well as your standing clinch work.  

IMO, I feel in order to be totally well rounded, you need to have skills in all of the ranges of fighting.  

Mike


----------



## ArnisNewbie (Dec 5, 2003)

As i mentioned i know that it is a good idea to get a good base....and i am only graduated white belt in Arnis....but over time i have picked up bit and pieces from other arts as well...and i don't fell that it is very hard to compete with the more experienced guys where i train and my trainer told med that i have potential....the only place i feel unexperienced and feel inferior is on the ground....that's why i wanna start training some shootfighting as well....and another aspect is...we tend to focus a lot on the technical stuff so we don't really do any fitness training....

you guys are more experienced than me...and i will listen and consider your words...but in the end it is up to me to decide.....

please comment...


----------



## Tapps (Dec 5, 2003)

I remember being a yellow belt and having the opportunity to train outside my art (Modern Arnis).

My teacher (Tim Hartman) was always good about getting his students exposure to other quality arts.

So I dabbled with Kempo, Bando, Ju-Jitsu, Akido, Shotokann (sp?)

All of it was cool. I wanted to learn it all.

The best piece of advice came from my friend Mark Hannon, who was teaching me Kempo at the time. He said pick one thing and get really good at it before you branch out. Basically get a foundation AND a reference point.

The hardest thing about cross training is keeping the terminology straight. The movements in, say, Modern Arnis and Parker Kempo aren't that different. What they call them is totally different. You may find yourself in front of a testing board looking confused when they ask you to do something you may know very well.

You may be able to pull it off at the early levels but keeping things straight gets increasingly difficult.

My 2cents: Pick 1 style and do seminars in anything else that interests you. That way you can add to your technique without the confusion.

:soapbox: :soapbox: :soapbox: :soapbox:


----------



## MJS (Dec 5, 2003)

Doing any sort of ground work, be it BJJ, Shootfighting, Judo, Wrestling, etc. will definately help you on the ground.  Of course, each one has its own unique thing about it.  

As for the fitness.  If thats something that you're not doing during training, and is something of a concern to you, then I'd recommend doing some training outsie of your school.  Of course, doing any kind of grappling, will definately give you an awesome cardio workout.  My BJJ class is an hour, and I'm exhausted by the time its over.

Good luck in your search!

Mike


----------



## sercuerdasfigther (Dec 5, 2003)

your training arnis (weapons and emptyhands) so i wouldn't train another art that teaches those same things. how many ways do you need to strike a person? i would train grappling it will round out you ranges, weapons,emptyhands,and grappling.


----------



## loki09789 (Dec 6, 2003)

I say if you have the time, money and interest, take everything you can for as long as you can.  Ultimately it depends on your goals though.  If you want to master and move up the ranks in one system focus on that.  IF you just want to train hard and be as fight ready as possible without any time expectations, train as much as you realistically can.  The biggest danger is over training when you are bouncing between training sessions.  

 I use to train with a group of various artists and skill levels.  The main training focus was sparring/semi to full contact depending on the mood, and I got caught off guard by some of the stuff coming my way because of lack of exposure and experience.  In time, we all improved because we found a way to disect each other's movement.  It made it easier to understand my own background because I had to think about what I did and what was getting in on me, and why.  

No matter how 'complete' any art claims to be, cross training in various arts will make you more well rounded and less likely to be suprised by a style of movement/technique. 

The trick to reduce confusion is to keep a journal or note book so that when you can review your thoughts/training and look back to find the answers to alot of questions as time goes on.

Paul Martin


----------



## Cruentus (Dec 8, 2003)

> _Originally posted by MACaver _
> *My suggestion if it's worth anything to you...
> You've been training "for a couple of months" and already you're thinking of cross training... uhh not yet.
> It's usually a good idea to have a good base style to train and be profecient in before moving on to other arts. A year or two in the art you're in right now then you have a good base to branch out and not be confused when you go back to your base art.
> ...



I agree with waiting also. Modern Arnis is a good supplemental art...but it is also a good base style.

After you train for a few years, then you can decide what you are strong at, what you are weak at, and what you like the best. You can then crosstrain in an art that will best help you.


----------



## Tgace (Dec 9, 2003)

Crosstraining is fine, but whats your goal?? If self-defense is your goal, I would crosstrain in some firearms courses, study use of force law, perhaps take a class in first-aid, defensive driving or use of chemical spray. If fitness is your goal, lift, run, swim, bike, climb etc.  You see where im going....MA is just a tool in your defensive tool box. Dont fill the whole thing with hammers.


----------



## Tapps (Dec 9, 2003)

> MA is just a tool in your defensive tool box. Dont fill the whole thing with hammers.



I like that !


----------



## ArnisNewbie (Dec 9, 2003)

Hmmm i get your point Tgace....

okay first i gotta point out...i practice martial arts because i think it is fun...but i do also focus on what is the more effective..so i might be prepared if i am attacked on the street....another thing i have to clear up is that i'm from denmark....firearms is very rare...i have held a real gun before and i don't think that i ever will...what's bothering me the more is knives...that's why i like arnis a lot...in denmark if you risk getting into a fight they might have a knife or be a more than one attacker....so that's why i focus on being effective....i know that the term self defence covers more than just fighting....but that is what i wanna put my emphasis on...i have been able to talk myself out of a fight more than once...but i wanna be prepared if it occurs....

I know that i could build fitness other ways as you say...but i find it more fun to get fitness training and learn MA at the same time...that is why i wanna crosstrain with some Shootfighting or kenpo or something


----------



## Cruentus (Dec 9, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Tgace _
> *Crosstraining is fine, but whats your goal?? If self-defense is your goal, I would crosstrain in some firearms courses, study use of force law, perhaps take a class in first-aid, defensive driving or use of chemical spray. If fitness is your goal, lift, run, swim, bike, climb etc.  You see where im going....MA is just a tool in your defensive tool box. Dont fill the whole thing with hammers. *



Good point!


----------



## Tgace (Dec 9, 2003)

> _Originally posted by ArnisNewbie _
> *so that's why i focus on being effective....i know that the term self defence covers more than just fighting....but that is what i wanna put my emphasis on...i have been able to talk myself out of a fight more than once...but i wanna be prepared if it occurs....
> *



Thats what Im talking about...being "prepared" is more than just "fighting"but Im not talking about "talking" your way out of fights either. If you take some deep cuts from a knife defense situation, do you know enough first aid to stay alive? Do you have a kit in your vehicle? If you found that descretion was the better part of valor and had to make a run for it, how fast and far could you go? Could you drive your way out of a carjacking set-up? Does your physical training prepare you for events other than fighting? Take for instance an event in my job... I had to chase some car thieves about 1/4-1/2 mile, jump 2, 6" chain link fences (cutting myself up pretty good doing it) than run down and tackle/cuff/search a subject while my co-workers rounded up the rest. Im a runner and my "wind" was good, I wasnt "out of breath" and my heart rate came back down pretty quick. What I felt beat by was the sprinting with a good 10-20 pounds of vest, belt, gun-n-gear for that distance. My legs felt like jello and the fence hopping did a job too. So now I "crosstrain" with more stamina leg drills (one leg squats etc.) and lifting exercises that simulate things like fence jumping (chins/dips). Now Im not saying that cross training in another MA is a bad thing, just really think about your end goal. If mastery of hand to hand fighting is it  than have at it.  Just know that it may not always be enough to survive on the "street" in and of itself.


----------



## ArnisNewbie (Dec 10, 2003)

hey Tgace

yeah got ya point...it sounds like you have a lot of experience with that kinda things...and i must admit that my physical shape is not as good as i has been but still it is not downright bad...and the reason i wanted to do some shootfighting was to build stamina...i know i could run og work out in a gym...but it is quite expensive...i train at home instead lifting some weights and doing chinups, pushups, situps ect...

but i don't have much time because of my studies...and then i have to be effective in the time i have avavible...

perhaps i will start running or something...

anyway thanx for your comments....keep'em coming


----------



## loki09789 (Dec 10, 2003)

I would recommend jumping rope if you are limited on time, money and space for  training.  I can use mine outside when weather permits or inside.  When my apartments were too small, I use to go in the hall where the cieling was higher.  It is a very portable tool.

Martial Arts is great for training skill, but fight stamina is not something that can be developed well exclusively in a class.  That is why "Tae - Bo"/cardio - kick classes are so popular (deluding the general public, but popular) now.  The local Krav Maga school offers a great Martial Arts based conditioning class with real Martial Arts Trained Instructors leading the exercises.

Most 'fighters' who want to stay alive pr are earn a living using martial skills spend time training endurance and stamina (running, swimming is GREAT, cycling...) along with MA skill.  Even the old bare knuckle fighters recognized good old manual labor of the work day (farming, mining...) as part of their training regiment.  Now that our average lives are so soft compared to back then, professionals and serious trainers turn to exercise for endurance development.

From early civilization to the relatively recent history (early 20th) people could normally walk a total of 15 to 20 miles a day during daily activity.  Now, I don't think we are even close to that number in 1st world or modern countries.

I like rope work because of its convinience and benefits:

1.  Excellent coordination/agility development.
2.  Excellent aerobic conditioning.
3.  If done properly, can be used to develop speed and short burst intensity for fight conditioning.
4.  With proper planning, progress is safe and noticebly quick - which can feel really good and motivate you to keep challenging yourself.
5.  For FMAers, it helps develop stick/weapon skill because you are using the same forearm and wrist snap that you use at the end of a stick strike.  Plus the variety of jumping patterns really enhances your ability to pick up foot work patterns quickly

Reality is that if you are in a street fight, it will be really quick or you will be really hurt/dead.  But, it is extremely physically draining and as TGACE mentioned, endurance leads to a quicker recovery from the demand which translates to a better mental awareness state and better readiness for another attack/fight, or multiple opponents.

endurance is only a piece of the total fight picture, but a significant one in my opinion.

Paul Martin


----------



## Tgace (Dec 10, 2003)

I see so many skills/arts out there that could be of use and Id like to crosstrain in. The problem is that theres only so much $$/time that I have to spend. My personal goal is to do at least one thing a day to hone my skills, be it just a work out, a dry-fire session with my weapon, read the latest trade magazine etc. I try to not let a day pass without doing something.


----------



## chaosomega (Dec 11, 2003)

> _Originally posted by loki09789 _
> *The trick to reduce confusion is to keep a journal or note book so that when you can review your thoughts/training and look back to find the answers to alot of questions as time goes on.
> 
> Paul Martin *



YES! Journal's are an excellent tool for any martial artist! I'm almost finished my first one, and I'm not even training at a school right now (which shows how much you can learn while not training). Try to write down anything you learn, and theories you think might work that you want to try. That way you can look back after you have, and make more notes on whether or not it did.

In closing, I <3 my journal.


----------

