# Jacob competing at USKA Nationals



## CB Jones (Apr 4, 2019)

Had a great weekend with my son competing at the USKA National Championships in Houston.  He won 1st in fighting and weapons and placed 2nd in kata.

Here is the video...and its music free just for you @Buka


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## Martial D (Apr 4, 2019)

That footwork would transfer well to MMA, and you can just tell he wants to punch more than kick.


Put him in MMA already


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## Buka (Apr 4, 2019)

I so enjoy watching Jacob compete. As for that Bo work....I'm starting to enjoy that more than any other division he competes in. I'm even a little jealous of his talent to tell you the truth. Awesome young man.

Oh, and thanks for allowing me to watch that without the God awful noise of -
(I had to delete the rest. It was not foul language, nor against any rules, it was just plain truth and God awfully accurate)


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## CB Jones (Apr 4, 2019)

Martial D said:


> That footwork would transfer well to MMA, and you can just tell he wants to punch more than kick.



Its been fun watching his footwork evolve.  His Sensei puts a lot of emphasis on footwork but a lot of it came from him watching Dominick Cruz combining what his sensei teaches and how Cruz moves.



Martial D said:


> Put him in MMA already



My wife would kill me.      In the future if he decides to get into MMA that will be fine but we will let him decide on that after highschool.  Right now with karate, and school sports his plate is pretty full.  He has become good friends with a Pro MMArtist who has a training facility a few hours away that we might let him go train at for a week this summer.


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## CB Jones (Apr 4, 2019)

Buka said:


> I so enjoy watching Jacob compete.



Thanks... that means alot to him and me.  He has grown up hearing stories about Joe Lewis and you guys from that era competing back in the good ole days.


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## JR 137 (Apr 4, 2019)

Second place in kata? To quote Reese Bobby and Ricky Bobby: 
If you’re not first, you’re last!

Congratulations to your son. I didn’t get a chance to watch it yet, but I will later on.


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## CB Jones (Apr 4, 2019)

JR 137 said:


> Second place in kata? To quote Reese Bobby and Ricky Bobby:
> If you’re not first, you’re last!



I know, right......knew I should have named him Walker or Texas Ranger....


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## JR 137 (Apr 4, 2019)

CB Jones said:


> I know, right......knew I should have named him Walker or Texas Ranger....


You can only do that if you’re contractually obligated to mention Powerade in every prayer and make every dinner prayer your b!tch


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Apr 4, 2019)

I'm torn on something. There seem to be a few times where he lets the other guy have the initiative with sloppy/not fully landing strikes, while he lands a clean one and gets the point. It's done enough times that I think it's a tactic he's using, and is working well for him.

Now where I'm torn: If he plans to transition to full contact/not point fighting, this would normally be a bad tactic that could cause issues. But watching him, it could turn him into one helluva counter-fighter, and I can't tell which way it'll go.

Either way, I enjoy his fights 10 times more than any other TKD fights I've seen recently.


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## Yokozuna514 (Apr 5, 2019)

The boy's fast.  Congratulations on the win.


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## CB Jones (Apr 5, 2019)

kempodisciple said:


> I'm torn on something. There seem to be a few times where he lets the other guy have the initiative with sloppy/not fully landing strikes, while he lands a clean one and gets the point. It's done enough times that I think it's a tactic he's using, and is working well for him.
> 
> Now where I'm torn: If he plans to transition to full contact/not point fighting, this would normally be a bad tactic that could cause issues. But watching him, it could turn him into one helluva counter-fighter, and I can't tell which way it'll go.
> 
> Either way, I enjoy his fights 10 times more than any other TKD fights I've seen recently.



I think alot of it is just confidence and feeling in complete control....but definitely will keep a watch on that.


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## Christopher Adamchek (Apr 5, 2019)

Does he practice any sparring with the bo?


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## CB Jones (Apr 5, 2019)

Christopher Adamchek said:


> Does he practice any sparring with the bo?



They go over the strikes and blocks and do some stuff at half speed but nothing live.


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## Christopher Adamchek (Apr 5, 2019)

CB Jones said:


> They go over the strikes and blocks and do some stuff at half speed but nothing live.



that blows, staff is my favorite weapon and a great weapon to learn how to fully fight with


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## Buka (Apr 5, 2019)

What I see from watching Jacob's videos is a young man with supreme confidence in what he's doing. I also see someone who's fighting SPECIFIC to the rule set his competitions are using. I can tell by the way he quickly scans the judges calling, or not calling, a point. And how when he scores and the judges _don't see it_ he will almost always reposition himself the next time he throws it so the center ref sees it plainly.

I think if he goes into any other arena of competition he will take all his skill sets with him.


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## _Simon_ (Apr 5, 2019)

Duuuude.... way to go Jacob! Again, just love his footwork and lack of hesitation.

Handled that bo like craaazy too, wow... And really cool version of Kanku Dai, loved the intensity and purpose he put in it. He's inspired me


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## CB Jones (Apr 6, 2019)

_Simon_ said:


> Duuuude.... way to go Jacob! Again, just love his footwork and lack of hesitation.
> 
> Handled that bo like craaazy too, wow... And really cool version of Kanku Dai, loved the intensity and purpose he put in it. He's inspired me



Thanks.  He really enjoys the bo and actually created that Bo form himself (he took parts of 3 other bo forms and combined them).  This summer he wants to start working more with Kamas and putting together a Kama Version of his Kanku Dai.
.


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## Gerry Seymour (Apr 6, 2019)

Buka said:


> I so enjoy watching Jacob compete. As for that Bo work....I'm starting to enjoy that more than any other division he competes in. I'm even a little jealous of his talent to tell you the truth. Awesome young man.
> 
> Oh, and thanks for allowing me to watch that without the God awful noise of -
> (I had to delete the rest. It was not foul language, nor against any rules, it was just plain truth and God awfully accurate)


I'm with you on this. I _really_ like watching his staff work. I'm not even jealous - I'll never get close enough to that to get jealous of it.


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## CB Jones (Apr 6, 2019)

gpseymour said:


> I'm with you on this. I _really_ like watching his staff work. I'm not even jealous - I'll never get close enough to that to get jealous of it.



Now if only he can learn how to use a broom....


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## Gerry Seymour (Apr 6, 2019)

CB Jones said:


> Now if only he can learn how to use a broom....


Get his instructor to tell him it's a weapon, and there will be new competitions.


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## dvcochran (Apr 19, 2019)

CB Jones said:


> Had a great weekend with my son competing at the USKA National Championships in Houston.  He won 1st in fighting and weapons and placed 2nd in kata.
> 
> Here is the video...and its music free just for you @Buka


Just watched the video. Congratulations. Very smooth right leg roundhouse kick. He gets his leg, and especially the knee up very well. He looks limber enough and twitchy enough to double kick. Should be an easy point for him and help when there is a height disadvantage. I thought he let his stance get really wide later in some of the matches and it was slowing him down. IMHO.


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## CB Jones (Apr 20, 2019)

dvcochran said:


> Just watched the video. Congratulations. Very smooth right leg roundhouse kick. He gets his leg, and especially the knee up very well. He looks limber enough and twitchy enough to double kick. Should be an easy point for him and help when there is a height disadvantage. I thought he let his stance get really wide later in some of the matches and it was slowing him down. IMHO.



Thanks.

He throws a low/high double kick sometimes but not alot.  We will watch for the stance getting too wide.  He actually surprised me a little I thought he would struggle more.  Due to high school baseball, he had missed the last couple of tournaments and hadn't trained much in the couple months before.  I expected him to be a little more rusty.


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## Gerry Seymour (Apr 20, 2019)

CB Jones said:


> Thanks.
> 
> He throws a low/high double kick sometimes but not alot.  We will watch for the stance getting too wide.  He actually surprised me a little I thought he would struggle more.  Due to high school baseball, he had missed the last couple of tournaments and hadn't trained much in the couple months before.  I expected him to be a little more rusty.


If that's what he looks like rusty...


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## Headhunter (Apr 20, 2019)

CB Jones said:


> Thanks.
> 
> He throws a low/high double kick sometimes but not alot.  We will watch for the stance getting too wide.  He actually surprised me a little I thought he would struggle more.  Due to high school baseball, he had missed the last couple of tournaments and hadn't trained much in the couple months before.  I expected him to be a little more rusty.


In my experience ring rust doesn't exist in fact being away can sometimes make you perform better since your bodies had a rest. I've found that plenty of times in fights. The times I went full rocky mode in training I performed worse than when I took time out. I still find it in bjj I've had like a month off due to sickness and other stuff going on and when I came back I was rolling better than ever. Catching people in submissions and getting good positions and defending well. In my opinion ring rust is just an excuse that people use when they lose


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## Headhunter (Apr 20, 2019)

CB Jones said:


> Thanks.
> 
> He throws a low/high double kick sometimes but not alot.  We will watch for the stance getting too wide.  He actually surprised me a little I thought he would struggle more.  Due to high school baseball, he had missed the last couple of tournaments and hadn't trained much in the couple months before.  I expected him to be a little more rusty.


To add to my last post. There's a number of times ring has been proven to not be a factor. Michael bisping took a title fight on 2 weeks notice after he'd been filming a movie so not training much and he won by 1st round ko against a guy he'd previously lost to. Nate Diaz had been drinking and partying and not training before he tapped out McGregor in 2 rounds. Randy couture was retired for a year before he came back and dominated Tim Sylvia for 5 rounds for the heavyweight title.


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## CB Jones (Apr 20, 2019)

Headhunter said:


> In my experience ring rust doesn't exist in fact being away can sometimes make you perform better since your bodies had a rest. I've found that plenty of times in fights. The times I went full rocky mode in training I performed worse than when I took time out. I still find it in bjj I've had like a month off due to sickness and other stuff going on and when I came back I was rolling better than ever. Catching people in submissions and getting good positions and defending well. In my opinion ring rust is just an excuse that people use when they lose



Agree.  To clarify at times his spacing gets a little off and his punches will be a just short of contact.  Being shorter than alot of his opponents puts him in their range though.  His first 2 opponents were 6-7 inches taller than him.

I thought it might be a little tough early as he found his timing and spacing....but he got it figured out pretty quick.


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## dvcochran (Apr 20, 2019)

I thought he looked very good. I know points tourney's limit their value some but he is quick enough to use spinning kicks effectively. The problem often times is they end up with too much contact.


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## dvcochran (Apr 20, 2019)

Headhunter said:


> In my experience ring rust doesn't exist in fact being away can sometimes make you perform better since your bodies had a rest. I've found that plenty of times in fights. The times I went full rocky mode in training I performed worse than when I took time out. I still find it in bjj I've had like a month off due to sickness and other stuff going on and when I came back I was rolling better than ever. Catching people in submissions and getting good positions and defending well. In my opinion ring rust is just an excuse that people use when they lose


I have always felt that has more to do with conditioning and clearing the head. A good break can make that quite a lot.


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## CB Jones (Apr 21, 2019)

dvcochran said:


> I thought he looked very good. I know points tourney's limit their value some but he is quick enough to use spinning kicks effectively. The problem often times is they end up with too much contact.



He has a spinning back/side kick that is brutal.  Even with the belly pad on it hurts...he throws it some but not alot but he is pretty good at pulling the power.


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## JR 137 (Apr 21, 2019)

There’s definitely something to the ring rust, for me anyway. I took about 4 months off when I had Lyme disease two years or so ago. I took another 4 months off during my disc episode. A week or 3 here and there for various reasons like illness or too much work/family stuff.

The biggest thing I noticed every time - my timing was off. The longer I was away, the worse it was. Drills, kata, etc. all felt completely fine. Actually, sometimes I felt sharper. But once sparring time came... yeah.

I was out from October until February of this year. The first few times I sparred, my timing was awful. I saw stuff happening a split second too late. The footwork and block were on the way, but I got tagged consistently. I saw openings, but by the time I reacted, they weren’t there anymore half way through throwing what I was throwing. Anticipation of stuff coming wasn’t there, and my combos were shorter; like 2-3 things throw instead of 4-5 or more. Same thing happened every time before this time, but to a lesser extent. And it never lasted as long as this time. Or maybe I was and still am more conscientious of it?

That’s “ring rust.” I wish I could blame it on recovering from the injury, falling out of shape, etc. but I can’t. Baseball hitters need to consistently see live pitching to get into and stay in a groove. Pitchers need to pitch. And same for any skills in any sports. MAists need to have someone feeding them resistance in sparring. It doesn’t have to be all out, but just that regular punches and kicks coming at you. Same thing when I wrestled.

When you constantly see stuff coming at you at a faster pace, it slows down in a way. It becomes normal. When you don’t see it for a while and then go back, everything looks like it’s going 100 mph. At least it does for me.

The pro fighters who took fights on very short notice aren’t exactly the norm. And truth be told, even if they weren’t in training camp before they took a fight with a few weeks’ or even days’ notice, I’m pretty sure they weren’t sitting on the couch and hanging out all day every day. They were most likely training, albeit at a light enough pace to stay sharp and maintain a decent level of conditioning.


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## Gerry Seymour (Apr 21, 2019)

JR 137 said:


> There’s definitely something to the ring rust, for me anyway. I took about 4 months off when I had Lyme disease two years or so ago. I took another 4 months off during my disc episode. A week or 3 here and there for various reasons like illness or too much work/family stuff.
> 
> The biggest thing I noticed every time - my timing was off. The longer I was away, the worse it was. Drills, kata, etc. all felt completely fine. Actually, sometimes I felt sharper. But once sparring time came... yeah.
> 
> ...


I wonder what the neurology is behind that loss of timing - that seeing things a bit late. Durable learning degrades at a somewhat unpredictable rate during that time period (2-6 months), as I recall.


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## JR 137 (Apr 21, 2019)

gpseymour said:


> I wonder what the neurology is behind that loss of timing - that seeing things a bit late. Durable learning degrades at a somewhat unpredictable rate during that time period (2-6 months), as I recall.


It would be an interesting thing to see from a neuroscience and/or sports psychology study. The two would have to be intertwined at some level.

Ask a baseball hitter about consistently seeing live pitching vs even a pitching machine every day. They’ll tell you they if they don’t see live pitching for a while, they won’t be able to “pick up the pitch” or in other words see it right for a while. They get into a zone; into a rhythm.

A great example of this was when Bernie Sanders was getting older. Brian Cashman (GM) had a great reason for not signing him for another season, thereby forcing him to retire. A radio announcer was asking why he couldn’t be kept for another year as a DH. Cashman said (paraphrased due to lack of exact memory) “Like every hitter, Bernie needs to hit every day to keep a rhythm. He’s not as good a fielder as (whoever replaced him), and almost as good a hitter. (The DH at the time) is a better hitter. So when do we use him other than giving someone a day off here and there? If he’s not hitting regularly, he struggles. He’s great if he’s hitting regularly, but how can we do that?”

Sure the core mechanics are there for a hitter if he takes more time off than usual. His swing is perfectly fine and not noticeably effected (if he’s healthy). But it takes him a while to see the pitches and put the ball in play.

I’ve seen it in a lot of players. And I’ve seen it in other sports too. It’s most apparent when you know the player and the sport. You can tell they’re just a bit off. And I’ve heard a ton of hitters say they’re off after not seeing live pitching for a while. 

Same thing for fielders. Infielders get used to the ball coming at them at a fast pace. Then there’s the off season where they’re not fielding as much, and when preseason comes along they need some time to adjust. Outfielders struggle to pick up the ball when they’re limited to indoor practice during the winter, then getting outside and seeing actual fly balls at a normal height takes some adjustment. It’s not coincidental that there’s far more fielding errors during preseason and just mistiming/judging the ball than there is after a few weeks. 

When I’m in a groove and have been consistently sparring at a higher intensity for a while, my vision gets better. Things slow down in a sense. When I’m gone for a while and come back, everything’s seemingly coming at me much faster than it actually is. Sparring with someone with better than average skill and speed, that split second delay is the difference between getting out of the way and/or deflecting the punch and getting tagged by it. You may even get a hand on it and lessen the blow, but it’s still going to hit you.

Go stand in the batter’s box with a pitching machine. Just watch 75 mph pitches go by you for an hour a day for a few weeks. They’ll gradually start to look slower. Stop for a few months and go back. They’ll look faster than you remember. Why? No idea.

Edit: maybe increasing neural pathways in the eye to the brain and in the brain, thereby fine tuning the vision. Then not doing that for a while and those pathways atrophying closer to a baseline level. Kinda like muscular hypertrophy and subsequent atrophy after a layoff that was too long. Just a shot in the dark there.


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## dvcochran (Apr 21, 2019)

JR 137 said:


> It would be an interesting thing to see from a neuroscience and/or sports psychology study. The two would have to be intertwined at some level.
> 
> Ask a baseball hitter about consistently seeing live pitching vs even a pitching machine every day. They’ll tell you they if they don’t see live pitching for a while, they won’t be able to “pick up the pitch” or in other words see it right for a while. They get into a zone; into a rhythm.
> 
> ...



I have wondered about your edit in other physical responses. In machine programming, I can write an algorithm that changed the priority of a response based on the frequency or condition of inputs. Is this similar to what the brain does? Or is it much more complex than that? I never lost too much of my recognition for when/what/why to throw a spinning side kick but it certainly seems like there is a disconnect between my brain saying Go! and my body responding sometimes, for example.


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## Gerry Seymour (Apr 22, 2019)

JR 137 said:


> It would be an interesting thing to see from a neuroscience and/or sports psychology study. The two would have to be intertwined at some level.
> 
> Ask a baseball hitter about consistently seeing live pitching vs even a pitching machine every day. They’ll tell you they if they don’t see live pitching for a while, they won’t be able to “pick up the pitch” or in other words see it right for a while. They get into a zone; into a rhythm.
> 
> ...


I suspect it's not actually vision, but pattern matching, for all of those scenarios. This would suggest that our visual pattern matching has little durability at the finest level (which would translate to elite performance), but is much more durable beyond that point (take any truly good athlete, give them a year off, and they're still better than someone who was a couple of levels less "good").

I'll have some down time this week after my foot surgery. I'll poke around and see if I can find anything related in the literature.


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## Gerry Seymour (Apr 22, 2019)

dvcochran said:


> I have wondered about your edit in other physical responses. In machine programming, I can write an algorithm that changed the priority of a response based on the frequency or condition of inputs. Is this similar to what the brain does? Or is it much more complex than that? I never lost too much of my recognition for when/what/why to throw a spinning side kick but it certainly seems like there is a disconnect between my brain saying Go! and my body responding sometimes, for example.


The brain's function has is analogous to programming in some ways, but very different in others. When we include just the glial cells, it would be like a cluster of servers with a changing wiring path (that's oversimplified) that shifts to reinforce what's used the most with wiring that's shielded better and has more bandwidth potential. Network nodes not used for a while can actually become disconnected.


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## JR 137 (Apr 22, 2019)

dvcochran said:


> I have wondered about your edit in other physical responses. In machine programming, I can write an algorithm that changed the priority of a response based on the frequency or condition of inputs. Is this similar to what the brain does? Or is it much more complex than that? I never lost too much of my recognition for when/what/why to throw a spinning side kick but it certainly seems like there is a disconnect between my brain saying Go! and my body responding sometimes, for example.





gpseymour said:


> I suspect it's not actually vision, but pattern matching, for all of those scenarios. This would suggest that our visual pattern matching has little durability at the finest level (which would translate to elite performance), but is much more durable beyond that point (take any truly good athlete, give them a year off, and they're still better than someone who was a couple of levels less "good").
> 
> I'll have some down time this week after my foot surgery. I'll poke around and see if I can find anything related in the literature.


I saw an article on somewhere like the Mayo Clinic that was talking about aging and the brain, and they were saying how the brain grows and atrophies according to usage like muscles do. Only not as large, obviously.

Parts of the brain that control different things can grow and atrophy. The article cited a study showing cab drivers in London had a significantly larger hippocampus (I think that’s the part) than the rest of the population. 

I don’t know what part of the brain that takes the visual cue and elicits a response in stuff like sports and MA. The visual cortex in the occipital lobe (back of the brain) obviously plays a role, but where the response to that stimulus comes from I don’t know. And I don’t know how much those regions actually grow in size. 

There are ways to decrease reaction time in activities. People with traumatic brain injuries have done training that decreases it. Stuff like stuff like seeing patterns on a computer screen and pressing appropriate keys as quickly as possible. Quite often when you’re refining a physical skill what you’re doing physiologically is increasing the synapses; kids learning to write and practicing writing their letters are gaining fine motor control in their hands. They’re forcing their body to increase synapses in their hands - more nerve endings = better control; and possibly in their brain.

Constantly seeing a specific type of stimulus that’s faster and more varied than the norm and reacting to it is a skill. Using baseball as an example, you can develop the perfect swing, but that doesn’t mean you can hit a pitch. You can only learn and refine that through swinging at pitches. Skills like this are refined basically the same way as a kid learning to write - it’s very sloppy at first, then they’re gaining feedback and refining it. They’re visually learning to recognize the error and are practicing and fixing it. This is why they trace letters over and over again at first, then do some freehand, then repeat that for all the letters. While they’re doing this, synapses along the neural pathways are increasing. Where there’s an increase, I’d have to say there’s growth. More increase = more growth. How much actual growth is my question. Synapses are microscopic. Or it could be a figurative re-wiring of the brain.

Too much brain science thinking. I need a mental break


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## dvcochran (Apr 22, 2019)

JR 137 said:


> I saw an article on somewhere like the Mayo Clinic that was talking about aging and the brain, and they were saying how the brain grows and atrophies according to usage like muscles do. Only not as large, obviously.
> 
> Parts of the brain that control different things can grow and atrophy. The article cited a study showing cab drivers in London had a significantly larger hippocampus (I think that’s the part) than the rest of the population.
> 
> ...



Very interesting. I always thought it was more like you last sentence where the brain, based on inputs(frequency, priority, etc...)uses some existing "infrastructure" for a new purpose. Like multi-plexing. I never knew the brain could grow. But I am an engineer so what do I know about the brain.


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## dvcochran (Apr 22, 2019)

gpseymour said:


> The brain's function has is analogous to programming in some ways, but very different in others. When we include just the glial cells, it would be like a cluster of servers with a changing wiring path (that's oversimplified) that shifts to reinforce what's used the most with wiring that's shielded better and has more bandwidth potential. Network nodes not used for a while can actually become disconnected.


That is very, very similar to a program node algorithm.


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## dvcochran (Apr 22, 2019)

gpseymour said:


> I suspect it's not actually vision, but pattern matching, for all of those scenarios. This would suggest that our visual pattern matching has little durability at the finest level (which would translate to elite performance), but is much more durable beyond that point (take any truly good athlete, give them a year off, and they're still better than someone who was a couple of levels less "good").
> 
> I'll have some down time this week after my foot surgery. I'll poke around and see if I can find anything related in the literature.


Is muscle memory in that equation somewhere?


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## JR 137 (Apr 22, 2019)

dvcochran said:


> Very interesting. I always thought it was more like you last sentence where the brain, based on inputs(frequency, priority, etc...)uses some existing "infrastructure" for a new purpose. Like multi-plexing. I never knew the brain could grow. But I am an engineer so what do I know about the brain.


Parts of it can grow. I don’t think it’s a large amount though. The brain doesn’t have much room to grow inside the skull after all. And I’m not sure if every part is capable of growing (after adulthood) or only select parts are. The study that article referenced only talked about the hippocampus growing (if that was the part that grew).

For this stuff it’s most likely a combination of “re-wiring,” being more efficient, and a seemingly negligible amount of actual growth. That’s my guess anyway.


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## Gerry Seymour (Apr 23, 2019)

dvcochran said:


> Is muscle memory in that equation somewhere?


The term "muscle memory" is a misnomer (though a good descriptor for how we experience it). As I recall, it largely involves reinforced pathways (multiple connections for the same path), and myelination (insulative sheathing for the neuron). The more you use a pathway, the more connections the neurons make, and the more myelin is added. Well-traveled pathways become more efficient and easier to use.


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## Gerry Seymour (Apr 23, 2019)

JR 137 said:


> Parts of it can grow. I don’t think it’s a large amount though. The brain doesn’t have much room to grow inside the skull after all. And I’m not sure if every part is capable of growing (after adulthood) or only select parts are. The study that article referenced only talked about the hippocampus growing (if that was the part that grew).
> 
> For this stuff it’s most likely a combination of “re-wiring,” being more efficient, and a seemingly negligible amount of actual growth. That’s my guess anyway.


Most areas can have some growth. There juvenile brain actually has MANY more connections than the adult brain. There's a "pruning" that happens - twice I think - to remove large amounts of connections. This is why kids learn so differently from adults - their brain is quite literally wired for learning. But even as our brains age, unused areas get pruned, and new connections (including reinforced connections) can be made. The growth is more a matter of density of connections than size, in many cases.


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## JR 137 (Apr 23, 2019)

dvcochran said:


> Is muscle memory in that equation somewhere?


“Muscle memory” is in the cerebellum, that ball-like part on the back and bottom of the brain. New stuff you learn occurs somewhere in the cerebrum. Repeat it often enough and it gets moved to the cerebellum. This is why you have to consciously think about some stuff and can do other things subconsciously. Ever think about walking while you walk? You just go. That’s the cerebellum. Consciously think about it, and you’re using the cerebrum. And you’ll probably trip yourself up a bit if you consciously think about walking because the two parts of your brain are going against each other.

If I asked you which arm swings forward as your right leg steps forward, you most likely have to think about it, then you’ll probably end up walking several steps and second guess your answer. Walking will feel awkward.

I do this with my 9th grade biology students. It’s hilarious watching them contemplating and thinking about how they actually walk while they’re walking. My anatomy & physiology professor did it to us, and that’s where I got it from. We’d be walking around the room and several people could be heard saying “wait, do I actually walk like this, or do I walk like this?” Walking is so highly complex that if we consciously think about what everything’s doing, we’d fall on our faces quite often.

That muscle memory of throwing a punch or kick is basically the same thing. How far back does your punching hand go? Where does it go (above your shoulder, your hip, etc.)?When does it turn over? How much does it turn over? How far out is your elbow? Which knuckles are landing first? How does it redirect itself and hit a target? How does it track that target and still hit it when it moved a bit while the punch was on its way? What is the rest of your body doing while all of this is going on? Think about all of that stuff consciously, and you’re f’ed.

While you’re learning all the fine details of a punch, you’re re-wiring and making more neural pathways.


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## CB Jones (Apr 23, 2019)

JR 137 said:


> “Muscle memory” is in the cerebellum, that ball-like part on the back and bottom of the brain. New stuff you learn occurs somewhere in the cerebrum. Repeat it often enough and it gets moved to the cerebellum. This is why you have to consciously think about some stuff and can do other things subconsciously. Ever think about walking while you walk? You just go. That’s the cerebellum. Consciously think about it, and you’re using the cerebrum. And you’ll probably trip yourself up a bit if you consciously think about walking because the two parts of your brain are going against each other.
> 
> If I asked you which arm swings forward as your right leg steps forward, you most likely have to think about it, then you’ll probably end up walking several steps and second guess your answer. Walking will feel awkward.
> 
> ...



I see this with coaching baseball.

So many things going on mechanically with your swing or throw that when you start trying to teach someone or fix something you can cause other problems.

They start trying to think about one component of the mechanics and mess up a couple other components


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## JR 137 (Apr 23, 2019)

CB Jones said:


> I see this with coaching baseball.
> 
> So many things going on mechanically with your swing or throw that when you start trying to teach someone or fix something you can cause other problems.
> 
> They start trying to think about one component of the mechanics and mess up a couple other components


Exactly. When they’re thinking about it, they’re using the wrong part of the brain. The cerebrum and cerebellum are at odds with each other. The cerebellum is doing what it’s been programmed to do, and the cerebrum is trying to stop it. That’s why we struggle a bit, and more so struggle with relearning a new motor pattern.

This is why I don’t practice a new kata independently until I have it completely memorized. I made that mistake once that really sticks out. I learned it in class but not to the point of memorizing it. I practiced it on my own probably 200 times. And yeah, I practiced the same mistake every time too. It probably took my double that time to completely fix the mistake. Haven’t done that one again.


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## dvcochran (Apr 23, 2019)

gpseymour said:


> The term "muscle memory" is a misnomer (though a good descriptor for how we experience it). As I recall, it largely involves reinforced pathways (multiple connections for the same path), and myelination (insulative sheathing for the neuron). The more you use a pathway, the more connections the neurons make, and the more myelin is added. Well-traveled pathways become more efficient and easier to use.


So the body literally increases the protective sheath around nerves? Very cool.


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## JR 137 (Apr 23, 2019)

dvcochran said:


> So the body literally increases the protective sheath around nerves? Very cool.


Myelin sheath isn’t really a protective structure. As crazy as it sounds it’s not really an insulator either. It speeds up the impulse by having the impulse go on the outside of the sheath. The impulse jumps from node to node. The node of ranvier is the spot in between the bead looking Schwann cells. You’d think it would take longer to travel outside and trace that up and down path, but it doesn’t. I don’t remember why and how, it just remember it does.


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## Gerry Seymour (Apr 24, 2019)

JR 137 said:


> “Muscle memory” is in the cerebellum, that ball-like part on the back and bottom of the brain. New stuff you learn occurs somewhere in the cerebrum. Repeat it often enough and it gets moved to the cerebellum. This is why you have to consciously think about some stuff and can do other things subconsciously. Ever think about walking while you walk? You just go. That’s the cerebellum. Consciously think about it, and you’re using the cerebrum. And you’ll probably trip yourself up a bit if you consciously think about walking because the two parts of your brain are going against each other.
> 
> If I asked you which arm swings forward as your right leg steps forward, you most likely have to think about it, then you’ll probably end up walking several steps and second guess your answer. Walking will feel awkward.
> 
> ...


The book _Thinking Fast and Slow_ does a decent job of explaining system 1 and system 2 thinking. One (I keep forgetting which) is the conscious thought, which is slow. The other is the systematized version of that conscious thought, and is faster, more automatic, and largely unconscious. Like driving home without really thinking about the route...sometimes even when you planned to be somewhere else.


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## Gerry Seymour (Apr 24, 2019)

CB Jones said:


> I see this with coaching baseball.
> 
> So many things going on mechanically with your swing or throw that when you start trying to teach someone or fix something you can cause other problems.
> 
> They start trying to think about one component of the mechanics and mess up a couple other components


So if we go back to the idea of hitting pitches from a machine, that's working the muscle memory quite nicely. Then you get an actual pitcher, and the muscle memory works fine, but the the pattern recognition isn't set up to recognize those pitches - some of which recognition is probably based on arm and eye movement.


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## Gerry Seymour (Apr 24, 2019)

JR 137 said:


> Myelin sheath isn’t really a protective structure. As crazy as it sounds it’s not really an insulator either. It speeds up the impulse by having the impulse go on the outside of the sheath. The impulse jumps from node to node. The node of ranvier is the spot in between the bead looking Schwann cells. You’d think it would take longer to travel outside and trace that up and down path, but it doesn’t. I don’t remember why and how, it just remember it does.
> View attachment 22195


Yeah, "insulation" is a shorthand explanation that makes sense, but is a bit backwards of the actual function. Good explanation, JR.


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