# Objective pressure test for pressure-points



## kickcatcher (Mar 13, 2006)

I've seen many demonstrations of pressure-points. I've had people poke and prod me expecting god knows what reaction. 

How can we objectively evaluation pressure points to the extent that we know which ones work 'live' and how practical they are to apply. 


My initaial thoughts are that I'd want to see them applied against a full-out (or near full-out) attack where the person playing the role of the attacker has no prior knowledge that the defender is going to attempt to defend using pressure points. 

If the pressure point 'experts' can make some of the moves work in the above context with any degree of reliability, then the next step would be to do the same drills but using people who are 'average' skill at PPs. 

Then, the next stage, which is probably impractical, would be to introduce achohol, drugs etc into the equation to see if the points still have the same effect. 

My gut feeling is that the points would not be particularly effective and that most likely the PP person would resort to less sophisticated defences when faced with a fully resistant opponent. 

What's your take on testing PPs?


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## Flying Crane (Mar 13, 2006)

I have personally never worked with anyone claiming to have skill with attacking pressure points, at least not the Dillman type claims to be able to knock people out with a light tap, and such.  But from what I have read, mostly on this forum, there is a general lack of success when attempting to demonstrate these techniques on anyone other than a willing co-hort/student of the demonstrator.

If someone could actually demonstrate this on me personally, even if I just stand there and let them do it, but successfully knock me out with a light touch, I will be impressed.  If they tell me it would be too dangerous because I haven't adequately developed my 'chi' to survive the light touch, then they are copping out and are a fraud.  A basic, successful demonstration where I can actually experience the technique, would be a good start, in my book.


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## Phil Elmore (Mar 13, 2006)

Those pressure points that "work" are simply those areas on the human body that are more vulnerable than others.  Thse include certain nerve clusters and arteries as well as areas related to the joints.  There's no magic to it.  Punch someon with one knuckle in the "triple heater" junction at the rear of the jaw and you'll have successfully used a "pressure point."  Punch them in the same general area and you'll still hurt them regardless of hitting "pressure points" and regardless of whether you know or care about them.


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## kickcatcher (Mar 13, 2006)

Phil Elmore said:
			
		

> Those pressure points that "work" are simply those areas on the human body that are more vulnerable than others. Thse include certain nerve clusters and arteries as well as areas related to the joints. There's no magic to it. Punch someon with one knuckle in the "triple heater" junction at the rear of the jaw and you'll have successfully used a "pressure point." Punch them in the same general area and you'll still hurt them regardless of hitting "pressure points" and regardless of whether you know or care about them.


Cool, thanks for sharing Phil. Which "pressure points" work and how do we test them?


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## bshovan (Mar 13, 2006)

Right on the point- no pun intended. There has been many times when I have applied pressure point techniques with no response in real life situations and I will say these techniques rarely failed in the dojo. Two times I was in  situations, and many others, whereby I attempted to apply ( from the rear ) a  vagus nerve pressure point manipulation to seperate guys who were intoxicated, in rage and who knows what else under the influence. I tried to be humane, but only for a second each time as I had to employ other methods which I won't go into. In a nutshell, pressure point training is fine but remember in real life one should be trained to respond to any situation. Note- There are reasons- escalation of force that lawfully dictate such- but nothing like real life experiences gives better feedback and advice.

Bill


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## DavidCC (Mar 13, 2006)

kickcatcher said:
			
		

> I've seen many demonstrations of pressure-points. I've had people poke and prod me expecting god knows what reaction.
> 
> How can we objectively evaluation pressure points to the extent that we know which ones work 'live' and how practical they are to apply.
> 
> ...


 

I don't know where you live, but there may be a Kyusho International instructor in your area.  Testing and practicing against increasing resistance is their bread-and-butter.  Go to some of their classes and see for yourself.  You can go here to find them
http://www.kyusho.com/KIdir/world.htm


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## Cujo (Mar 13, 2006)

PP's have their place. You don't try to use pressure points on violent people, only on non-compliant people. Having said that, I am refering to Touch pressure, not striking. Touch pressure is not just touching, but applying pressure with finger thumb etc. Striking pressure points can be very effective if you are trained to use them. Somewhere on this site is a video of a man named Lee who was filming a training video for leo's when he was attcked by a pimp. Mr. Lee just stands there as the pimp charges him and then throws a backfist to the side of the pimps neck dropping him. In law enforcement, at least where I am from, this is called a bracial plexus stun. It simply interupts the nerve impulses to the brain and the result is similar to being tazed. I have never seen this technique fail, if you are able to use it. In another thread I have also listed several other strike points that I have used "for real" and they do work. I DO NOT believe that you can lightly touch me and knockme out, or kill me with your chi or whatever, but that does not make all PP's bad or useless.
Pax
Cujo


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## thetruth (Mar 14, 2006)

When you are doing tap KO's you need to follow the cyle of destruction, tapping certain meridians (to which an elemental name is attached) in order to achieve the KO.   This is **** and I have never met anyone who can come close to achieving this in an all out altercation (I have met a number of high ranking DKI and KI guys).   The guys at KI can't either.  The one hit pain type points maybe but not the tap KO's.  The KI guys are all of Dillman lineage anyway so there is nothing different there.  Smack your assailant hard and fast, if u hit PP great if not they will still be down.  

Cheers
Sam


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## Cryozombie (Mar 14, 2006)

I think wether most pps will work or not also depend who you are using them on.  Some folk are just more resistant to pain than others.​


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## SAVAGE (Mar 14, 2006)

Flying Crane said:
			
		

> I have personally never worked with anyone claiming to have skill with attacking pressure points, at least not the Dillman type claims to be able to knock people out with a light tap, and such. But from what I have read, mostly on this forum, there is a general lack of success when attempting to demonstrate these techniques on anyone other than a willing co-hort/student of the demonstrator.
> 
> If someone could actually demonstrate this on me personally, even if I just stand there and let them do it, but successfully knock me out with a light touch, I will be impressed. If they tell me it would be too dangerous because I haven't adequately developed my 'chi' to survive the light touch, then they are copping out and are a fraud. A basic, successful demonstration where I can actually experience the technique, would be a good start, in my book.


 
well...I train with PPs and VAs as well...and I can use them pretty well..I would be glad to demonstrate but it would be to dangerous:uhyeah: !

Seriously it would be....because when I strike a PP...its a strike...full force...say the adams apple as a VA strike...man I will punch it full force...or the lung meridian....full force punch using a phoenix fist!

I dont believe in that light touch crap.....you expose a PP to me...and its gonna be like you got hit there with a sledge hammer!

Flyiong Crane...i am not directing this at you...just saying that PPs need to be struck..not touched...I also dont believe that stuff!


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## Hand Sword (Mar 14, 2006)

I agree! Go full out, and try to destroy what you hit.


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## bushidomartialarts (Mar 16, 2006)

there's two problems with pressure points as i see it:

one, they rely on a huge amount of precision.  don't know about you guys, but sparring or actually in a tussle i'm lucky to hit the dude's head, let alone a 1/4 inch by 1/4 inch point on the forearm.  once you get down to the wrestling about stage, i suppose it would be easier, but they still require too much exactness for me to be comfortable relying on them in a real situation.

second, many of them are just pain-compliance techniques.  pain compliance isn't terribly useful against an adrenalized, hopped up or willful opponent.  you have to break things to stop one of those.

so it's elbows to the head, knees to the groin and knife hands to the throat for me and mine.

that said, accupressure and accupuncture seem to work pretty well so there's definitely something going on there....


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## RoninPimp (Mar 16, 2006)

Should we define what a PP is before we answer this question? Are they light taps? Hard strikes? Pain compliance? Maybe it doesn't matter...

PP techniques as demonstrated by the Dillman crowd is complete BS and borders on cult like blind faith.

PP on sensative areas as pain compliance techniques are very low percentage. Maybe good for LEOs on semi resisting suspects.

PP with full power on physiologically known vulnerable areas has nothing to do with chi and meridians. It's science.

Sounds like PP as they are generally understood are BS to me...Unless my assumptions are wrong???


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## Hand Sword (Mar 16, 2006)

I have seen peoples groins get grabbed, twisted, and ripped, as well as ears/ cheeks torn, and noses/eye sockets shattered. With all of this and other things, I've seen the recipients keep on fighting, with no apparent ill effects. I feel if these major targets can get destroyed in a real fight, and the person can keep on fighting, just getting more angry, then, trying to pin point PP's is a waste of time. It's hard enough to get to the major targets, let alone the smaller points.


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