# Justice Department Seeks Ebonics Experts



## Big Don (Aug 23, 2010)

*Justice Department Seeks Ebonics Experts*

*DEA wants Black English linguists to decipher bugged calls*

The Smoking Gun EXCERPT:

AUGUST 23--The Department of Justice is seeking to hire  linguists fluent in Ebonics to help monitor, translate, and transcribe  the secretly recorded conversations of subjects of narcotics  investigations, according to federal records.
 A maximum of nine Ebonics experts will work with the Drug Enforcement  Administrations Atlanta field division, where the linguists, after  obtaining a DEA Sensitive security clearance, will help investigators  decipher the results of  telephonic monitoring of court ordered  nonconsensual intercepts, consensual listening devices, and other media
 The DEAs need for full-time linguists specializing in Ebonics is  detailed in bid documents related to the agencys mid-May issuance of a  request for proposal (RFP) covering the provision of as many as 2100  linguists for the drug agencys various field offices. Answers to the  proposal were due from contractors on July 29.
 In contract documents, which are excerpted here, Ebonics is listed among 114 languages for which prospective contractors must be able to provide linguists. The 114 languages  are divided between common languages and exotic languages.  Ebonics  is listed as a common language spoken solely in the United States.
END EXCERPT
FIND Barbara Billingsley! Language Warning!


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## Big Don (Aug 23, 2010)

Barbara Billingsley on talking Jive


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## Touch Of Death (Aug 23, 2010)

I hope no one has a problem with this, and if so, why?
Sean


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## Big Don (Aug 23, 2010)

Touch Of Death said:


> I hope no one has a problem with this, and if so, why?
> Sean


Aside from, it being stupid, and a likely HUGE waste of money, no problems.
Where is the DOJ looking for people to translate Southern? Do they just hire Jeff Foxworthy? What about the Boston accent? What about Minnesotans?


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## Sukerkin (Aug 23, 2010)

It's not an accent, Don, it's a dialect - or am I talking out of my hat?  In just the same way, Scottish English is not merely an accent; it is utterly unintelligible to English ears that are not from the Borders.  

Come to that, the Potteries accent, tho' not recognised as a dialect, is incomprehensible at first if you're not born here.  When I first moved into Stoke, from all of 15 miles away, a nice old chap came to chat with us as we hairy biker types were moving stuff into the house ... we couldn't understand a word he said!


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## Omar B (Aug 23, 2010)

Well considering gang subculture is in some cases ranked as threats to national security I see no problem with it at all, makes perfect sense.  I'm wondering when they'll want to get someone fluent in stacking too.


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## Bob Hubbard (Aug 23, 2010)

Well, considering had to once look up what "bust a cap" and "frontin" meant, I can see it needing translation. Then again, I can see "Southern" also needing it.


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## BloodMoney (Aug 23, 2010)

I could see why the would need one (or 9 as the case may be), its more than just slang.

The Scottish English comparison is a good one. If a scotsman comes up to you and says "thats a fair wee bairn" (and in a heavy accent) unless you know the dialect your not going to have any idea what hes talking about (bairn is baby so a "fair wee bairn" is a cute little baby).

As im not American the whole Ebonics thing seems incredibly foreign to me, lol I have no idea what half of them are saying, they be trippin' if they think I can understand that shiznit!


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## Big Don (Aug 23, 2010)

Sukerkin said:


> It's not an accent, Don, it's a dialect - or am I talking out of my hat?  In just the same way, Scottish English is not merely an accent; it is utterly unintelligible to English ears that are not from the Borders.
> 
> Come to that, the Potteries accent, tho' not recognised as a dialect, is incomprehensible at first if you're not born here.  When I first moved into Stoke, from all of 15 miles away, a nice old chap came to chat with us as we hairy biker types were moving stuff into the house ... we couldn't understand a word he said!


Dialect! That's the word I couldn't think of! Thanks, Suke.


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## Carol (Aug 23, 2010)

Big Don said:


> Aside from, it being stupid, and a likely HUGE waste of money, no problems.
> Where is the DOJ looking for people to translate Southern? Do they just hire Jeff Foxworthy? What about the Boston accent? What about Minnesotans?



Dude.  Don't pull a Chuck ovah it.


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## Touch Of Death (Aug 23, 2010)

Big Don said:


> Aside from, it being stupid, and a likely HUGE waste of money, no problems.
> Where is the DOJ looking for people to translate Southern? Do they just hire Jeff Foxworthy? What about the Boston accent? What about Minnesotans?


 Silly as it sounds, not every agent can follow every conversation and be able to process that information in a timly manner. Can you imagine how much better off we would be if government agents had arabic speakers to run recordings by? Why not get some guns and crack off the street by hiring a few people more learn-ed in street lingo? 
Sean


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## Grenadier (Aug 24, 2010)

"Ebonics" by today's definition is a far cry from what it was originally.  There's a difference between language characteristics used by immigrants from Africa, who were "fresh off the boat" compared to the deliberate use of horrible grammar, pronunciation, etc.  

All of this garbage of classifying such substandard use of the English language came about from the Oakland incident in 1996.  

The DOJ shouldn't have sugar coated it.  They should have simply advertised that they were looking for people who can extract meaning from substandard use of the English language.


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## Bill Mattocks (Aug 24, 2010)

Technically, ebonics is a 'cant'.  It is neither a regional accent, in which the same words are used, but pronounced differently, nor is it a dialect, which substitutes specific words but keeps the word order of the language as it is spoken.  Ebonics uses English words, but it is not English.  For that reason, it is also not a patois, a creole, or a pidgin.  It is not an independent language of its own, so it is not a language.

A 'cant' is crypto-dialect of a group, intentionally designed to communicate amongst members of the group while discouraging understanding by those outside the group.  It is an extreme form of slang, which all children use.  It is most similar to Polari from the UK, derived from English and Romany and used by, of all things, a homosexual subculture there.


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## elder999 (Aug 24, 2010)

Bill Mattocks said:


> Technically, ebonics is a 'cant'. It is neither a regional accent, in which the same words are used, but pronounced differently, nor is it a dialect, which substitutes specific words but keeps the word order of the language as it is spoken. Ebonics uses English words, but it is not English. For that reason, it is also not a patois, a creole, or a pidgin. It is not an independent language of its own, so it is not a language.
> 
> A 'cant' is crypto-dialect of a group, intentionally designed to communicate amongst members of the group while discouraging understanding by those outside the group. It is an extreme form of slang, which all children use. It is most similar to Polari from the UK, derived from English and Romany and used by, of all things, a homosexual subculture there.


 

Actually, the original use of Ebonics was applied to dialects, argots and patois like _gullah_, Barbadian dialect or Jamaican dialect, all of which use West African loanwords and syntax. It was later mis-applied to what would more properly be called non-standard Black American vernacular-a cant, as you've said.


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## Empty Hands (Aug 24, 2010)

elder999 said:


> Actually, the original use of Ebonics was applied to dialects, argots and patois like _gullah_, Barbadian dialect or Jamaican dialect, all of which use West African loanwords and syntax. It was later mis-applied to what would more properly be called non-standard Black American vernacular-a cant, as you've said.



Whatever, can we get back to insulting black people?  This sounds suspiciously like knowledge and education.


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## Archangel M (Aug 24, 2010)

It's been my experience that this "cant" can be turned off and on if the speaker chooses. So its less an accent than it is an affectation. Mileage on that opinion may vary though. I concede that.


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## Sukerkin (Aug 24, 2010)

Aye, it is precisely the same in intent and (current) usage as Cockney used to be before it became all 'folksie' and twee.  People forget that it was the patois of thieves.


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## Bill Mattocks (Aug 24, 2010)

Empty Hands said:


> Whatever, can we get back to insulting black people?  This sounds suspiciously like knowledge and education.



I was trying...

But you might notice that there are few with chips on their shoulders, trying desperately to find something negative they can say about black people, without having anyone able to call them 'racist' for doing so.  I expect the higher incarceration rate of black Americans versus white Americans to be trotted out next.  I mean, it's factual, so no one could be a racist for simply stating it, right?  So let's get it over with [holds nose].


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## David43515 (Aug 24, 2010)

Empty Hands said:


> Whatever, can we get back to insulting black people? This sounds suspiciously like knowledge and education.


 

Sorry, must have missed that one. Who`s been insulting whom?


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## Drac (Aug 24, 2010)

Archangel M said:


> It's been my experience that this "cant" can be turned off and on if the speaker chooses. So its less an accent than it is an affectation. Mileage on that opinion may vary though. I concede that.


 
I have seen just that in a courtroom of a very powerful and respected black female judge. They brought in a young man suspected of selling drugs near an elemetary school. When the judge asked the young man to give his side of the story he started with " OK Judge, lemme lay alla dis out for you".

The Judge rose from her seat and said in a VERY LOUD voice, " In my courtroom you WILL speak English.. In the blink of an eye his syntax changed.


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## elder999 (Aug 24, 2010)

Archangel M said:


> It's been my experience that this "cant" can be turned off and on if the speaker chooses. So its less an accent than it is an affectation. Mileage on that opinion may vary though. I concede that.


 

While that may or may not be true-I think it's an individual thing-this was about deciphering _secret recordings._ The individuals in question were talking amongst themselves, for all they knew, and probably speaking at ease.....and unintelligibly as well.


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## Omar B (Aug 24, 2010)

Empty Hands said:


> Whatever, can we get back to *insulting black people*?  This sounds suspiciously like knowledge and education.



Why?


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## Bill Mattocks (Aug 24, 2010)

Omar B said:


> Why?



I believe it was intended as sarcasm, since it was a relatively transparent attempt at race-baiting that started the thread. Some of us tried to defuse it by taking the question seriously instead of the intended slur.


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## Omar B (Aug 24, 2010)

Ok


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## Big Don (Aug 24, 2010)

Bill Mattocks said:


> I believe it was intended as sarcasm, since it was a relatively transparent attempt at race-baiting that started the thread. Some of us tried to defuse it by taking the question seriously instead of the intended slur.


Really, Bill? Questioning policy is race-baiting?


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## Carol (Aug 24, 2010)

> In addition to the nine Ebonics experts, the DEA&#8217;s Atlanta office also requires linguists  for eight other languages, including Spanish (144 linguists needed);  Vietnamese (12); Korean (9); Farsi (9); and Jamaican patois (4). The  Atlanta field division, one of the DEA&#8217;s busiest, is the only office  seeking linguists well-versed in Ebonics. Overall, the &#8220;majority of  DEA&#8217;s language requirements will be for Spanish originating in Central  and South America and the Caribbean,&#8221; according  to one contract  document.



So for perspective...the Atlanta office needs as many Ebonics specialists as they need Korean and Farsi specialists...but it needs 1600% more Spanish specialists than it does any of the prior three.



> Additionally, while &#8220;technology plays a major role in the DEA&#8217;s efforts,  much of its success is increasingly dependent upon rapid and meticulous  understanding of foreign languages used in conversations by speakers of  languages other than English and in the translation, transcription and  preparation of written documents.&#8221;


The DEA is doing the right thing.  They're trying to get boots-on-the-ground intel instead of trying to catch drug kingpins in Atlanta from a cubicle in Washington D.C.   

Speaking of people one can't understand... :lol:

[yt]Q2BkSK0PLY8[/yt]


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## elder999 (Aug 24, 2010)

Big Don said:


> Really, Bill? Questioning policy is race-baiting?


 

The DOJ has some secret tapes of black guys speaking to each other.

THey couldn't understand them, and need interpreters.

They advertised open positions.

Answer your "_question_?" Didn't really see any question in your first post, or your second.....

Your _third_, though:



Big Don said:


> Aside from, it being stupid, and a likely HUGE waste of money, no problems.
> Where is the DOJ looking for people to translate Southern? Do they just hire Jeff Foxworthy? What about the Boston accent? What about Minnesotans?


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## Big Don (Aug 24, 2010)

elder999 said:


> The DOJ has some secret tapes of black guys speaking to each other.
> 
> THey couldn't understand them, and need interpreters.
> 
> ...


Oh, absolutely, ridiculing stupidity is clearly racist.
Since so many of you are psychic, how about a hint on what tomorrow's CA lottery numbers will be?


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## elder999 (Aug 24, 2010)

Big Don said:


> Oh, absolutely, ridiculing stupidity is clearly racist.


 
Which part was _stupid,_ and so worthy of *your "*ridicule," exactly?

More to the point, I......_clearly_ haven't accused _anyone_ of racism, bigotry, being racist or even being "_stupid._" Yours is the first use of the very word, "racist," in this thread. 

No matter, though....


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## RandomPhantom700 (Aug 25, 2010)

Bill Mattocks said:


> I believe it was intended as sarcasm, since it was a relatively transparent attempt at race-baiting that started the thread. Some of us tried to defuse it by taking the question seriously instead of the intended slur.


 
Quoted for Truth.


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## Drac (Aug 25, 2010)

Bob Hubbard said:


> Well, considering had to once look up what "bust a cap" and "frontin" meant, I can see it needing translation.


 
I wish I could have recorded an interview I had with the friend of a crime victim during my rookie days. A primer could have helped.

Me: Do you know the victim?

Her: Yeah, dats my cuz.

Me: Your cuz? You mean she is related to you?

Her: No, dats my play cuz..


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## MBuzzy (Aug 25, 2010)

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## CoryKS (Aug 25, 2010)

The comparison was made to Scottish English, and I know that in both cases it can be difficult to understand the speaker without acclimation.  When I watch movies like Trainspotting or Snatch or whatever, there's like a fifteen minute period at the beginning when I have no idea what is being said, but once I get a feel for the rhythm of the speech it's no longer a problem.  

I guess I don't understand why the speech pattern would be so inaccessible that a dedicated resource would be required.  Wouldn't they pick up some familiarity with it in the course of their job?  Maybe it would be better if they could hire someone to teach the agents how to listen.


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## Bill Mattocks (Aug 25, 2010)

CoryKS said:


> The comparison was made to Scottish English, and I know that in both cases it can be difficult to understand the speaker without acclimation.  When I watch movies like Trainspotting or Snatch or whatever, there's like a fifteen minute period at the beginning when I have no idea what is being said, but once I get a feel for the rhythm of the speech it's no longer a problem.
> 
> I guess I don't understand why the speech pattern would be so inaccessible that a dedicated resource would be required.  Wouldn't they pick up some familiarity with it in the course of their job?  Maybe it would be better if they could hire someone to teach the agents how to listen.



It's not the same as a regional dialect or accent.  Consider it more like Romany; a language spoken by a societal subset that is intentionally designed to be confusing or unintelligible to outsiders.  Cockney Rhyming Slang is a moderate version of it; you can listen to it for hours, but you're not going to suddenly 'get it' unless it's explained to you.

Other examples would be Polari, a language used by the homosexual community in the UK in the 1950's and 60's:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A10357832

Or Nadsat, the invented language of the book "A Clockwork Orange," although that was fictional AND you could decipher it by reference.

American and UK Carnival workers (carnies) also have or had their own intentionally-encrypted language.  The words are English, but their use of them is unfamiliar and cannot be deciphered by the uninitiated listener - this is by design.  Some of this language persists in the age of professional wrestling.  Notoriously, former Minnesota governor Jesse Ventura used it when he referred to politics as a 'work' which is wrestling slang for a set-piece battle, a game, a cheat, a foregone conclusion.  Probably some of the most truthful words ever uttered about politics in America.


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## elder999 (Aug 25, 2010)

CoryKS said:


> The comparison was made to Scottish English, and I know that in both cases it can be difficult to understand the speaker without acclimation. When I watch movies like Trainspotting or Snatch or whatever, there's like a fifteen minute period at the beginning when I have no idea what is being said, but once I get a feel for the rhythm of the speech it's no longer a problem.
> 
> I guess I don't understand why the speech pattern would be so inaccessible that a dedicated resource would be required. Wouldn't they pick up some familiarity with it in the course of their job? Maybe it would be better if they could hire someone to teach the agents how to listen.


 

Odds are good that the people interpreting the tapes aren't in the field-if they don't actually get to use the local lingo, being taught it won't really make much difference. Their office might not even be in the area wher the dialect comes from.

 There are also  regional variations to deal with: a black drug dealer from Compton is going to be equally unitelligible to a fed in Washington DC and another gang-banger from East St. Louis or Tampa.


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## CoryKS (Aug 25, 2010)

Bill Mattocks said:


> It's not the same as a regional dialect or accent. Consider it more like Romany; a language spoken by a societal subset that is intentionally designed to be confusing or unintelligible to outsiders. Cockney Rhyming Slang is a moderate version of it; you can listen to it for hours, but you're not going to suddenly 'get it' unless it's explained to you.
> 
> Other examples would be Polari, a language used by the homosexual community in the UK in the 1950's and 60's:
> 
> ...


 

If the problem is that they are using a proprietary set of code words, then an expert of Ebonics isn't going to be any help at all.  If they are unable to understand more common black terms and phrases, hell, any white 16-year-old could teach them _that_.


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## Bill Mattocks (Aug 25, 2010)

CoryKS said:


> If the problem is that they are using a proprietary set of code words, then an expert of Ebonics isn't going to be any help at all.



It's a sliding window.  If you are a native speaker of the cant of a particular subset of society, you are predisposed to catch many of the words and perhaps the meaning of other similar kants from other regions or times.

Intentional cants change quickly; they're fluid languages and designed to be changed as outsiders begin to penetrate meaning; but some patterns and references are common and remain the same.  In other words, as Elder said, a person from one segment of NY culture might not be completely hip to Oakland CA speech from the same culture, but he or she would be able to bridge the gap fairly quickly and at least be able to make inferences that made sense.  A person like myself would stand little to no chance of doing either.  A person who spoke carny would probably be able to understand a professional wrestler's special language and vice-versa.  They're different but based on the same thing.


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## elder999 (Aug 25, 2010)

CoryKS said:


> If the problem is that they are using a proprietary set of code words, then an expert of Ebonics isn't going to be any help at all.


 

It's not-it's a regional vernacular. I'm trying to find some examples (besides gullah, which is another thing altogether) to post....what they're looking for are people who from the same neighborhood or area who talk that way.


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## Tez3 (Aug 25, 2010)

BloodMoney said:


> I could see why the would need one (or 9 as the case may be), its more than just slang.
> 
> *The Scottish English comparison is a good one. If a scotsman comes up to you and says "thats a fair wee bairn" (and in a heavy accent) unless you know the dialect your not going to have any idea what hes talking about (bairn is baby so a "fair wee bairn" is a cute little baby).*
> 
> As im not American the whole Ebonics thing seems incredibly foreign to me, lol I have no idea what half of them are saying, they be trippin' if they think I can understand that shiznit!


 

and to further confuse things there's Hielan Scots and Lowlands Scots! Lowland is Robert Burns and Billy Connelly. Highland Scots is very different being more Norse and Celtic.

We have enough problems here between American English and British English as it is!


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## Bill Mattocks (Aug 25, 2010)

elder999 said:


> It's not-it's a regional vernacular. I'm trying to find some examples (besides gullah, which is another thing altogether) to post....what they're looking for are people who from the same neighborhood or area who talk that way.



I was thinking of Calo, or Shelta.  I've had some exposure to the latter.  The first time I read "A Clockwork Orange," I thought NADSAT was Shelta; it has the same sing-song quality.   Viddy me?


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## Touch Of Death (Aug 25, 2010)

Big Don said:


> Oh, absolutely, ridiculing stupidity is clearly racist.
> Since so many of you are psychic, how about a hint on what tomorrow's CA lottery numbers will be?


Dude, when you lable things as stupid and don't give a clear reason why its stupid, people start to assume.
Sean


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## Big Don (Aug 25, 2010)

Touch Of Death said:


> Dude, when you lable things as stupid and don't give a clear reason why its stupid, people start to assume.
> Sean


Gee, I thought I did that.





Big Don said:


> Aside from, it being stupid, and a likely HUGE waste of money, no problems.
> Where is the DOJ looking for people to translate Southern? Do they just  hire Jeff Foxworthy? What about the Boston accent? What about  Minnesotans?


You couldn't grasp from that that seeking translators for one dialect and not others is, at the very least foolish?


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## CoryKS (Aug 25, 2010)

Big Don said:


> Gee, I thought I did that.
> You couldn't grasp from that that seeking translators for one dialect and not others is, at the very least foolish?


 
I guess it would depend on whether they're having difficulty understanding the Minnesota drug lords.


btw, The Minnesota Drug Lords would be a great name for a rockabilly band.


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## Big Don (Aug 25, 2010)

CoryKS said:


> I guess it would depend on whether they're having difficulty understanding the Minnesota drug lords.
> 
> 
> btw, The Minnesota Drug Lords would be a great name for a rockabilly band.


Only if pronounced with the "right" inflection


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## Touch Of Death (Aug 25, 2010)

Big Don said:


> Gee, I thought I did that.
> You couldn't grasp from that that seeking translators for one dialect and not others is, at the very least foolish?


Southern dialects are pretty much covered by the southerners whom join the DEA. Its obvious that you are happy with the current incompetence and will resist any urge to fix it by calling all efforts to do so, stupid and racist. You are right I didn't realize you were serious about hiring Jeff Foxworthy, and that was foolish. I love me some dangling participles.
Sean


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## elder999 (Aug 25, 2010)

Big Don said:


> Gee, I thought I did that.
> You couldn't grasp from that that seeking translators for one dialect and not others is, at the very least foolish?


 
Well, no, it pretty clearly is not-not if they can't understand what's being said. If they can understand it, then sure, thats "foolish": you hear something clearly on a tape, and know what they're saying, but "need" a translator.

If one dialect is unintelligible, or they can't discern _criminal activity_ in this instance, but suspect there is talk of it, they need a translator-in order to prove it. 

Everyone else seems to grasp this, even the law enforcement fellows who've chimed in-though odds are pretty good that they'd be more than capable of understanding what people in their area were saying, by virtue of exposure. It seems to me as though you're being a little obtuse here, Don; if I were in your situation, I'd say something like, _Ohhhh, I hadn't thought of *that*!_, and walk away....unless, of course, you're intent on proving something....

[yt]TN5A3TQBHLY[/yt]


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## Big Don (Aug 25, 2010)

Touch Of Death said:


> Southern dialects are pretty much covered by the southerners whom join the DEA.
> Sean


Yet, the same can't be said for ebonics? That requires special hiring? Really?


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## Touch Of Death (Aug 25, 2010)

Big Don said:


> Yet, the same can't be said for ebonics? That requires special hiring? Really?


Yeah really. The FBI did away with and agent is an agent is an agent. Why can't the DEA hire a few specialists?
Sean


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## CanuckMA (Aug 25, 2010)

Big Don said:


> Yet, the same can't be said for ebonics? That requires special hiring? Really?


 
No, not really. Accents are just varying pronunciations. When the words are unfamiliar, or the usage for common words is not the standard meaning, you need a translator.

You may listen to the black speech pattern and be able to discern the gist of what is being said. That's good enough for you and me. But I wouldn't want to stand before a judge and ask for a warrant with just having sort of understood the gist of a conversation.


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## Tanaka (Aug 25, 2010)

Bill Mattocks said:


> Technically, ebonics is a 'cant'.  It is neither a regional accent, in which the same words are used, but pronounced differently, nor is it a dialect, which substitutes specific words but keeps the word order of the language as it is spoken.  Ebonics uses English words, but it is not English.  For that reason, it is also not a patois, a creole, or a pidgin.  It is not an independent language of its own, so it is not a language.
> 
> A 'cant' is crypto-dialect of a group, intentionally designed to communicate amongst members of the group while discouraging understanding by those outside the group.  It is an extreme form of slang, which all children use.  It is most similar to Polari from the UK, derived from English and Romany and used by, of all things, a homosexual subculture there.



Well "Biznite" isn't an english word.


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## Bob Hubbard (Aug 25, 2010)

Bill Mattocks said:


> It's a sliding window.  If you are a native speaker of the cant of a particular subset of society, you are predisposed to catch many of the words and perhaps the meaning of other similar kants from other regions or times.
> 
> Intentional cants change quickly; they're fluid languages and designed to be changed as outsiders begin to penetrate meaning; but some patterns and references are common and remain the same.  In other words, as Elder said, a person from one segment of NY culture might not be completely hip to Oakland CA speech from the same culture, but he or she would be able to bridge the gap fairly quickly and at least be able to make inferences that made sense.  A person like myself would stand little to no chance of doing either.  A person who spoke carny would probably be able to understand a professional wrestler's special language and vice-versa.  They're different but based on the same thing.


Intenshunal kints change quickly; dey're fluid languages and designed  t'be changed as outsiders begin t'penetrate meanin'; but some patterns  and references is common and remain de same. In oda' wo'ds, as Elda'  said, some sucka' fum one segment uh NY culture might not be completely  hip t'Oakland CA speech fum de same culture, but he o' she would be able  t'bridge da damn gap fairly quickly and at least be able t'make  inferences dat made sense. A sucka' likes mah'self would stand little  t'no chance uh hangin' eider.  Ah be baaad... A sucka' who rapped carny  would probably be able t'dig it some professional wrestler's special  language and vice-versa.  WORD! Dey're different but based on de same  doodad.

-Jive translation. It refused to be Ebonicified.


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## Ken Morgan (Aug 25, 2010)

Bob Hubbard said:


> Intenshunal kints change quickly; dey're fluid languages and designed t'be changed as outsiders begin t'penetrate meanin'; but some patterns and references is common and remain de same. In oda' wo'ds, as Elda' said, some sucka' fum one segment uh NY culture might not be completely hip t'Oakland CA speech fum de same culture, but he o' she would be able t'bridge da damn gap fairly quickly and at least be able t'make inferences dat made sense. A sucka' likes mah'self would stand little t'no chance uh hangin' eider. Ah be baaad... A sucka' who rapped carny would probably be able t'dig it some professional wrestler's special language and vice-versa. WORD! Dey're different but based on de same doodad.
> 
> -Jive translation. It refused to be Ebonicified.


 
My eyes hurt....


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## Tanaka (Aug 25, 2010)

Big Don said:


> *Justice Department Seeks Ebonics Experts*
> 
> *DEA wants &#8220;Black English&#8221; linguists to decipher bugged calls*
> 
> The Smoking Gun EXCERPT:



I'm actually happy to hear this news. Because I see it as an open door opportunity for someone having trouble finding work. And someone who would have never thought they could get a job based on their knowledge of ebonics; will be able to get a (hopefully) secure job.

On the other hand... Yes I do think it's necessary. There are a lot of ebonics that is formed JUST for this situation. Bugged calls. These drug slingers use unknown ebonics on purpose. Kind of like communicating in morse code. I have heard a lot of ebonics that normal people don't know. I have heard a lot of ebonics that you cannot find out by searching on google(although a lot you can). Depending on how popular the ebonics is made(normally by rap artist). There is a reason why they have so many names/sayings for "drugs," "doing durgs," and "how much drugs." Most of time police officers find out due to working the streets for so long.


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## Bill Mattocks (Aug 25, 2010)

Tanaka said:


> On the other hand... Yes I do think it's necessary. There are a lot of ebonics that is formed JUST for this situation. Bugged calls. These drug slingers use unknown ebonics on purpose. Kind of like communicating in morse code. I have heard a lot of ebonics that normal people don't know. I have heard a lot of ebonics that you cannot find out by searching on google(although a lot you can). Depending on how popular the ebonics is made(normally by rap artist). There is a reason why they have so many names/sayings for "drugs," "doing durgs," and "how much drugs." Most of time police officers find out due to working the streets for so long.



Yes, you said that quite well. 'Ebonics' is not 'jive' or the type of street talk that one might hear the typical rapper use in a song, although some of the words might interchange.  That's what I've been trying to say, but you said it better, thank you.

And with regard to the criminal aspect of it, yes, precisely.  Many cants are based in criminal culture or cultures that typically seek a low profile for various reasons; they are intentionally encrypted ways of speaking.  Anyone who saw 'Airplane' and the "I speak Jive" skit in it does not have any idea what Ebonics sounds like.

I'm told this is "The Lord's Prayer" in Shelta Cant:



> Our gathra, who cradgies in the manyak-norch,
> We turry kerrath about your moniker.
> Let's turry to the norch where your jeel cradgies,
> And let your jeel shans get greydied nosher same as it is where you cradgie.
> ...



Some of the words are English, but if you weren't told that this is The Lord's Prayer, you'd never guess it.  I think people are intentionally conflating actual Ebonics with some form of street slang in an effort to 'not understand' that it is an intentionally encrypted language.  I'm not sure what their point is in intentionally 'not understanding'.  If they have a point, I wish they'd make it.


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## Big Don (Aug 25, 2010)

Bill Mattocks said:


> Yes, you said that quite well. 'Ebonics' is not 'jive' or the type of street talk that one might hear the typical rapper use in a song, although some of the words might interchange.



Not according to this definition
Or this one
Or here
Aside from your belief that it is intentionally encrypted, can you cite any source? I mean, in light of the three definitions I cited, you'd seem to be completely wrong...


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## Bill Mattocks (Aug 25, 2010)

Big Don said:


> Not according to this definition
> Or this one
> Or here
> Aside from your belief that it is intentionally encrypted, can you cite any source? I mean, in light of the three definitions I cited, you'd seem to be completely wrong...



http://www.scribd.com/doc/29521658/Bloods-Street-Gang-Intelligence-Report



> *The Bloods use of coded language was originally designed to prevent correctional officers from understanding inmates communication*, either verbal or written. The codes have been taken to the streets to disguise what gang members say from police. Depending on the Blood set, the gang members may use a variety of numbers, codes, and slang to communicate with each other. Although codes vary, commonalities in greetings, warnings, and general communication exist. A common greeting among Bloods members is SuWoop! (representing a police siren) and
> 
> members will often say Blaat! (representing the sound of automatic gunfire) to announce their presence.


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## Tanaka (Aug 25, 2010)

Big Don said:


> Not according to this definition
> Or this one
> Or here
> Aside from your belief that it is intentionally encrypted, can you cite any source? I mean, in light of the three definitions I cited, you'd seem to be completely wrong...


Well I'm not sure if there are any peer reviewed articles on ebonics. But I know some people who run in the drug game, but I doubt I can get them to come on here and confirm this. And it would take more trouble than it's worth(since I might be asked to prove they're legit drug dealers). 
I mean it's really the same way that people who are aware that their phones are "tapped," might use picture messaging instead of txt messaging or phone calls.
Because the language that phone uses to interpret and display on screen can be tapped into. And then translated into binary of course. But a picture is much harder since the language you're tapping is telling the phone how to make the picture.


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## elder999 (Aug 25, 2010)

Whether it's a proper "cant," like the Crips use, or an actual regional dialect and slang, the fact is that it can't be understood-regardless of its origins-and needs translation, especially if they are going to be using secret tapes as evidence of a crime, or to gain a search warrant, or even just to discern what has taken place. It's not because they're "white," and the people on the tapes are "black," it's because they're from different places. *I* wouldn't understand those tapes.

Oh, here:

[yt]rEY8P4uzpEo[/yt]


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