# Tang Soo Do Kyoban - Hwang Kee 1958



## Makalakumu (Mar 12, 2011)

http://evols.library.manoa.hawaii.edu/handle/10524/1073

The Hawaii Karate Library has scanned a number of volumes of rare books and made them available on the internet.  I wanted to share this one with everyone here because of it's importance to the history of this art.  Check it out and lets discuss it!

For those of you who read Korean, please pop in and give us your impression.


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## Dirty Dog (Mar 12, 2011)

Although I am trying to learn Korean, I do not read it any where near well enough to read this work. Is there, by any chance, a translation available?


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## Makalakumu (Mar 12, 2011)

Dirty Dog said:


> Although I am trying to learn Korean, I do not read it any where near well enough to read this work. Is there, by any chance, a translation available?



I haven't found it yet.  I'm fairly certain there is not.  This is not a common book.


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## Phenix_Rider (Mar 13, 2011)

Very cool.  Wish I knew korean...  I recognize my forms up through Naihanchi Sho Dan anyway.  It would be very nice to know his original thoughts.


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## Makalakumu (Mar 13, 2011)

Some thoughts....

1.  High kicking was already part of the curriculum back in 1958.
2.  Stances, basics, and forms look very much like Shotokan.
3.  Many of the techniques used in the Federation Ill Soo Shik are presented.
4.  Sweeps and throws were taught.
5.  Joint manipulations and breaking techniques were also taught.
6.  Weapon defense was part of the curriculum.
7.  All kinds of self defense scenarios were trained; standing up, laying down, kneeling, seated in a chair, etc.
8.  Anatomy and strike points were taught.
9.  A large section on injuries and first aid was present.
10.  A large section on swimming and rescuing people was present.
11.  Underwater defenses were also present, although they probably were related to rescuing people.  

It's very interesting to see which parts of this version of the art transmitted to today.


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## DMcHenry (Mar 13, 2011)

That's interesting, thanks for sharing.


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## puunui (Mar 16, 2011)

maunakumu said:


> Some thoughts....
> 2.  Stances, basics, and forms look very much like Shotokan.



I went to visit Sensei Charles Goodin with Dr. He Young Kimm so we could view this book. Goodin Sensei ended up burning a copy of the book for us onto a cd. This was before he released it on the internet. Nice guy. 

But try and compare the 1958 book to the later books. Do you see any differences? Personally, I think the 1958 version is different than modern shotokan. 




maunakumu said:


> 10.  A large section on swimming and rescuing people was present.
> 11.  Underwater defenses were also present, although they probably were related to rescuing people.



What Dr. Kimm said about this is that in the late 50's, swimming was very popular in Korea so he said GM Hwang probably added these sections as a reflection of the times.


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## Makalakumu (Mar 19, 2011)

puunui said:


> I went to visit Sensei Charles Goodin with Dr. He Young Kimm so we could view this book. Goodin Sensei ended up burning a copy of the book for us onto a cd. This was before he released it on the internet. Nice guy.



Goodin Sensei was gracious enough to introduce me to a lot of the islands top karateka and he is always very helpful when I have questions.  I'm hoping to return the favor this summer when Stephen Carbone Sensei comes out from Detroit.  

On a larger note, the gift he gave to the karate world when he donated the Hawaii Karate Museum's collection to UH Manoa is incalculable.  There are many letters and pamphlets in that collection that probably do not have another copy that is accessible anywhere else.  Every time I go up there, I learn something new.



puunui said:


> But try and compare the 1958 book to the later books. Do you see any differences? Personally, I think the 1958 version is different than modern shotokan.



Yes, I can see some differences.  Particularly with the back stance.  The width and the length of the stances is generally different.  However, from a teaching point of view, those points are smaller then compared to the curriculum in general.  There are more similarities then differences, IMO.

Also, other then the high kicking, how do you think this compares to pre-1958 Shotokan?  From my understanding, it matches that better then it does modern Shotokan. 



puunui said:


> What Dr. Kimm said about this is that in the late 50's, swimming was very popular in Korea so he said GM Hwang probably added these sections as a reflection of the times.



This was the most surprising section of the book for me.  I've always thought that swimming was an important self defense skill and that some kind of training in water was important.  I wonder if these swimming sections were actually taught in the dojang?  Did they hop a train down to the beach and work out in the water?


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## JWLuiza (Mar 19, 2011)

This is a pretty epic find by the way. Thanks so much for sharing.


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## Makalakumu (Mar 19, 2011)

JWLuiza said:


> This is a pretty epic find by the way. Thanks so much for sharing.



You're welcome!  As I dig through this collection, I'll try and post more that relates to TSD in particular.


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## puunui (Mar 23, 2011)

maunakumu said:


> Goodin Sensei was gracious enough to introduce me to a lot of the islands top karateka and he is always very helpful when I have questions.  I'm hoping to return the favor this summer when Stephen Carbone Sensei comes out from Detroit.



Who is Carbone Sensei from Detroit?





maunakumu said:


> Yes, I can see some differences.  Particularly with the back stance.  The width and the length of the stances is generally different.  However, from a teaching point of view, those points are smaller then compared to the curriculum in general.  There are more similarities then differences, IMO.



I think the differences or pretty fundamental in that they involve different biomechanical technical theories.


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## Makalakumu (Mar 23, 2011)

puunui said:


> Who is Carbone Sensei from Detroit?



http://www.weaponsconnection.com/aboutsensei.html

If I lived in the Detroit area, I would train with him.



puunui said:


> I think the differences or pretty fundamental in that they involve different biomechanical technical theories.



Could you explain further?


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