# Names of katas?



## purplekenposkunk (Jul 8, 2003)

In my school, we just refer to them as "short one", "long one, "short two", etc.

Only a few have more unique names:

"Little tiger" which goes against "Little crane",

and

Mass attack

Is this common?


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## Michael Billings (Jul 8, 2003)

Although we do not have "Little Crane or Tiger", I teach Book Set and Fu Hok (Tiger & Crane) and 2-man Set.  Mass Attacks a long time ago, was part of my LIneage.  The named Forms came out of early SGM Parker Kenpo or Tracy's Kenpo system.  It is all good.  I also teach the Sets, 1's and 2's, as part of the American Kenpo (EPAK) I do now.

IT'S ALL GOOD!


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## purplekenposkunk (Jul 8, 2003)

Do "Book set" and "Fu hok" kinda go together? Little Tiger and Little crane are offense and defense, respectively, and they are performed  together with 2 people.


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## tonbo (Jul 8, 2003)

Geeeeez......I guess that, at least in this instance, we are a little more adhering to the Kenpo "tradition" than not......

We use the form names:  "Short 1", "Long 1", etc., and we have a two-man form, called "Two man set".  

No extras that I know of.  

Hm.  Interesting.  

Peace--


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## Kirk (Jul 8, 2003)

> _Originally posted by tonbo _
> *Geeeeez......I guess that, at least in this instance, we are a little more adhering to the Kenpo "tradition" than not......
> 
> We use the form names:  "Short 1", "Long 1", etc., and we have a two-man form, called "Two man set".
> ...



That's one thing that I find interesting.  I was told that sets are isolations, in order to teach a specific thing.  I don't know staff set or the 2 man set, but both LOOK like forms to me...whats' the difference?


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## rmcrobertson (Jul 8, 2003)

Yeah, it gets confusing. Both are complex, both have multiple applications...but maybe try this.

"Sets," resemble dictionary entries. They focus on one, "word," at a time, identifying one or two dominant meanings for that word. Further, sets tend to have names that pretty much identify that dominant meaning: blocking set, kicking set, coordination set, etc....they teach other things too (for example, coordination sets teach balance and stance work), and they have fighting applications (as does everything in kenpo, even the salutation), but there's that dominant emphasis.

"Forms," are closer to encyclopedia essays, and even to poems. I even like the way their missing names remind me to try NOT to lock everything down to one meaning, but to learn the moves and then follow up their multiple applications.  This is why, I think (or at least it's a good argument) that the forms have themes and nicknames (Long 5: takedowns, and handling ground opponents; Long 6, "Flowering Hands; Short 2, "asterix" form), only. 

Of course, there are those who think that sets and forms are worthless--a silly attitude, but there it is. I like the approach that, it seems, t'ai chi in its fighting styles has: slow forms are taught first, to operate in several ways as "touchstones,"  points of reference to which students can always return.


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## Old Fat Kenpoka (Jul 8, 2003)

Purpleskunk:  Book Set and Tiger & Crane have many similarities.  From what I've read, Mr. Parker and Mr. Tracy picked them up from a Kung Fu teacher in San Francisco.  My school did both.  Similarities include many of the hand movements from a Horse stance at the beginning, twist-stances stepping out into double high-low claws, and stepping to reverse-punch from a forward bow.  Tiger & Crane is much more complex with more complicated hand movements and more difficult stance transitions.  Does your school do the double-reverse crescents landing in the kneel stance?  That was the hardest move in Tiger & Crane for me.

The numbered sets, I believe, come directly from Mr. Parker as does Mass Attack and the two-man set.


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## tonbo (Jul 8, 2003)

Actually, I was incorrect.  We have a "Two-man FORM", not a "Two-man SET".

I would generally agree with mcrobertson on the definition of set and form; however, I still think that some of the "staff sets" should actually be forms, as they seem to teach multiple elements at a time, much like the forms.

Ah, well.  What do I know?

Peace--


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## Kirk (Jul 8, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Old Fat Kenpoka _
> *From what I've read, Mr. Parker and Mr. Tracy picked them up from a Kung Fu teacher in San Francisco.  *



Interesting .. I was told that Sigung LaBounty is responsible for the book set.  I can't remember who told me that though


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## Old Fat Kenpoka (Jul 8, 2003)

Can't remember where I read about the teacher in SF.  I think it might have been Tracy's website...  Tracy teaches Book Set, and LaBounty started as a Tracy student...


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## Blindside (Jul 8, 2003)

> Does your school do the double-reverse crescents landing in the kneel stance? That was the hardest move in Tiger & Crane for me.



Yup, thats the way we do it.  The interesting thing is that the official Tracy system no longer does it that way.  On a Tracy forum we had a discussion about this a couple of months ago, and one other instructor also had learned Tiger that way.  

Our nomenclature is pretty close to that of the Tracy system (it should be thats where we came from), with Short and Long 1-6, two Sixes actually, we have both the Tracy and AK sixes, Sword Set (Chinese Broadsword), Staff Set, Book Set (Panther), Tiger and Crane, Mass Attack, and Two Man Set.  Short 4-6 are not required forms, but are around if someone wants to learn them.  I view the Panther and Tiger and Crane forms as sort of a living history, a view of where we might have come from.

Lamont


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## Randy Strausbaugh (Jul 8, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Old Fat Kenpoka _
> *From what I've read, Mr. Parker and Mr. Tracy picked them up from a Kung Fu teacher in San Francisco. *



I've read the same thing.  The instructor's name was James Wing Woo (not to be confused with San Soo's Jimmy Woo).  As I understand it, Mr. Parker convinced Mr. Woo to come to S. California to teach with him.  They later split up, with some of the students (including James Ibrao) following Mr. Woo.  This is partially referred to in an interview with Mr. Woo in Inside Kung Fu magazine.

Trying to avoid life's potholes,
Randy Strausbaugh


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## twinkletoes (Jul 8, 2003)

I have a mix of both here, lemme see:

Chinese Form 1-6
Finger Set
Moving Finger Set
Mass Attacks
Tiger
Book Set
Rushing Fist Part 1 & 2
Dancing Cat (bo)
Sword Form
Empty Hand Sword Form
Sai Form (Chinese Form 3 with Sai)
Kama Form
Dancing Cat part 2


aaaaaaand Parker's Long Form 6.

Go figure.

~TT


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## Michael Billings (Jul 9, 2003)

I never actually listed the required Sets and Forms.

*Required Sets/Forms*

Blocking Set 1 & 2
Kicking Set 1 & 2
Stance Set 1 & 2
Coordination Set 1 & 2
Finger Set 1 & 2
Striking Set 1 & 2
Staff Set
2 Man Set
Nunchaku Set
Club Set 1

Short Form 1
Long Form 1
Short Form 2
Long Form 2
Short Form 3
Long Form 3
Long Form 4
Long Form 5
Long Form 6
Long Form 7
(Note: I have not learned Long Form 8 yet, or it would be on the list)

*Optional Sets/Forms*

Sa Quan (Staff)
Kenpo Spear Set
Sup Sum Chang (Spear)
Book Set
Tiger & Crane
Shoot Fa Darn Do (Saber)
Fum Wei Darn Do (Saber)
2 Man Staff Set


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## RCastillo (Jul 9, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Michael Billings _
> *I never actually listed the required Sets and Forms.
> 
> Required Sets/Forms
> ...




Haven't learned Long 8 yet??

With such an impressive resume of forms here you've learned, 

WHAT'CHA WAITING FOR!!!:soapbox: Times a wastin'


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## RCastillo (Jul 9, 2003)

> _Originally posted by purplekenposkunk _
> *In my school, we just refer to them as "short one", "long one, "short two", etc.
> 
> Only a few have more unique names:
> ...



Not only that, but in the Tracy System, they have other names that identify them , such as Long 5 is known as the the "Transitions form, Sort 1, as the "Shield", and so forth.:asian:


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## Michael Billings (Jul 9, 2003)

I did not know that Ricardo.  What are the other's called, Interlocking Circles for the 6?


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## RCastillo (Jul 9, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Michael Billings _
> *I did not know that Ricardo.  What are the other's called, Interlocking Circles for the 6? *



Go to   http://www.georgiakenpo.net/info_pages/kata_names.htm

You'll see it all. Thanks!:asian:


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## jfarnsworth (Jul 11, 2003)

> _Originally posted by RCastillo _
> *Go to   http://www.georgiakenpo.net/info_pages/kata_names.htm
> 
> You'll see it all. Thanks!:asian: *



There aren't any write ups on the techniques or forms.


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## Wing Woo Gar (Sep 30, 2021)

Kirk said:


> Interesting .. I was told that Sigung LaBounty is responsible for the book set.  I can't remember who told me that though


The Book set you speak of was taught by James Wing Woo. Lau Bun was the head of the San Francisco club where Parker met Woo.


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## Blindside (Sep 30, 2021)

Wing Woo Gar said:


> The Book set you speak of was taught by James Wing Woo. Lau Bun was the head of the San Francisco club where Parker met Woo.


Holy thread necromancy Batman!


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## Wing Woo Gar (Sep 30, 2021)

Blindside said:


> Holy thread necromancy Batman!


I only comment on things I have certain knowledge of. I am new here and mean no disrespect.


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## Dirty Dog (Sep 30, 2021)

Wing Woo Gar said:


> I only comment on things I have certain knowledge of. I am new here and mean no disrespect.


I don't think anybody takes it as disrespectful. It's just a point of amusement to see ancient threads (this one is from 2003...) revived by new posters.


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## Wing Woo Gar (Sep 30, 2021)

Dirty Dog said:


> I don't think anybody takes it as disrespectful. It's just a point of amusement to see ancient threads (this one is from 2003...) revived by new posters.


I am nearing ancient age, so…


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## isshinryuronin (Sep 30, 2021)

Anybody heard of EPKK's "Dance of Death?"


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## Dirty Dog (Sep 30, 2021)

isshinryuronin said:


> Anybody heard of EPKK's "Dance of Death?"


Is that like the Ameri-Do-Te "kill face"?


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## Wing Woo Gar (Sep 30, 2021)

isshinryuronin said:


> Anybody heard of EPKK's "Dance of Death?"





Dirty Dog said:


> Is that like the Ameri-Do-Te "kill face"?


Restomp the groin!


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## Wing Woo Gar (Sep 30, 2021)

Wing Woo Gar said:


> Restomp the groin!


Tornado of doom!


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## Wing Woo Gar (Sep 30, 2021)

Dirty Dog said:


> Is that like the Ameri-Do-Te "kill face"?


Hilarious


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## isshinryuronin (Sep 30, 2021)

Wing Woo Gar said:


> Restomp the groin!


This is close to what the "Dance of Death" is about - doing stomps and kicks,     with a couple of other unique painful goodies, on a downed opponent,  sort of like a tap dance.  A lot of fun to do.

This is a real thing.  Taught to me personally by Ed Parker in '74.  Don't know if it made its way into his formal curriculum.  Not a whole form, more like "hand set,"
a fairly short series concentrating on a particular class of techniques.


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## Blindside (Sep 30, 2021)

isshinryuronin said:


> This is close to what the "Dance of Death" is about - doing stomps and kicks,     with a couple of other unique painful goodies, on a downed opponent,  sort of like a tap dance.  A lot of fun to do.
> 
> This is a real thing.  Taught to me personally by Ed Parker in '74.  Don't know if it made its way into his formal curriculum.  Not a whole form, more like "hand set,"
> a fairly short series concentrating on a particular class of techniques.



I am quite sure the "restomp the groin" is a direct reference to Kenpo.  Anyway for reference this is the full "Dance of Death" technique in AK.  Go to 4:30 to see the full technique.


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## Dirty Dog (Sep 30, 2021)

Blindside said:


> I am quite sure the "restomp the groin" is a direct reference to Kenpo.


It's an Ameri-Do-Te reference...


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## Blindside (Sep 30, 2021)

Dirty Dog said:


> It's an Ameri-Do-Te reference...


Yup, and Matt Page is a long time Kenpo guy.  Actually unless I totally misremember Master Ken's last name was Po very early on in that series, but I think they haven't used that since very early on.


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## Wing Woo Gar (Sep 30, 2021)

Dirty Dog said:


> It's an Ameri-Do-Te reference...


Lmao!


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## isshinryuronin (Sep 30, 2021)

Blindside said:


> I am quite sure the "restomp the groin" is a direct reference to Kenpo.  Anyway for reference this is the full "Dance of Death" technique in AK.  Go to 4:30 to see the full technique.


Interesting.  This version has more hand and less foot technique than what Mr. Parker taught me, though it's very similar otherwise.  Quite possible he refined it after the mid 70's and got further changed by others more recently.


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## Blindside (Sep 30, 2021)

isshinryuronin said:


> Interesting.  This version has more hand and less foot technique than what Mr. Parker taught me, though it's very similar otherwise.  Quite possible he refined it after the mid 70's and got further changed by others more recently.


This version is from the Tracy Kenpo side of the tree and they split off in the mid 60s, and it is essentially identical to the earlier version.


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