# Tenshinkan Karate



## Koga-Shinobi (Oct 9, 2002)

Hey MAists,

I came across a style of Karate known as Tenshinkan karate. From what I could gather, Tenshinkan karate is style of karate incorporating various aspects and techniques of both Aikido and Ju jitsu into it making it a more "complete and effective" style. Is there anyone out there who actually practices Tenshinkan or who knows a bit about it who can shed some light on the style. Personally, I find karate not to be more my style, however I do like Ju jitsu and Aikido. I do find though that the mix sounds pretty good (ie. the strikes from karate, and the take-downs and holds from Aikido and Ju jitsu)

Any out there know anything about Tenshinkan or practices it? I'd really love to hear your thoughts on it, and how effective it is (particulary for someone interested in a genuine self-defense MA).

Oh yes, I assume that there'd still be kata in Tenshinkan?


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## RyuShiKan (Oct 9, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Koga-Shinobi _
> 
> *...... From what I could gather, Tenshinkan karate is style of karate incorporating various aspects and techniques of both Aikido and Ju jitsu into it making it a more "complete and effective" style.*




Any karate style that says they "incorporate" Aikido/Jujutsu techniques into their style doesn't know a whole lot about Karate in the first place. Karate has in it a variety of techniqes like tuite (grappling), kansetsu waza (joint locks), takedowns and so on. At least the *non-Japanese styles* do. Japanese styles tend to be "one trick ponies"....i.e. kick/punch only.
It is obvious by the statement made by Tenshinkan they haven't scratched the surface of their art.


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## arnisador (Oct 9, 2002)

> _Originally posted by RyuShiKan _
> 
> *Any karate style that says they "incorporate" Aikido/Jujutsu techniques into their style doesn't know a whole lot about Karate in the first place. *



Wado-ryu is the best known such style. Perhaps this style is similar but the "advertising" quoted here doesn't convey that?


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## Matt Stone (Oct 9, 2002)

It has been my experience that styles that allegedly incorporate techniques from other styles into their base art are only picking and choosing a very few select techniques that they were exposed to briefly and are attempting to hang their "new and improved" martial art on the reputation of the arts they cite...

Makes you wonder what it was that was so lacking in the base art that needed additional techniques "incorporated" into it.

I just don't trust most folks out there, and when the teacher alleges they are the creator of some new and improved variation on a theme, I need proof of the unique nature of what they are doing...

Gambarimasu.


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## RyuShiKan (Oct 10, 2002)

Personally I think people that say they incorporate grappling to their karate *lately* are just trying to ride the MMA/BJJ wave and get more students. 

As for Wado.........they are a *Japanese* style and incorporated Jujutsu into their art ...........that says right there the founder of Wado must not have been taught the true meaning of the kata he learned.


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## Koga-Shinobi (Oct 10, 2002)

I called the Sensei of the dojo up yesterday to speak to him about it...and what he had to say was that in essence, they are a karate style (the basis of what they teach). But what he said that although a lot of jujitsu techniques can be found in some of the Kata, most practitioners/students dont ever see it or find it and therefore it gets lost. So what they do is they actively take jujitsu and aikido moves and teach them as part of the class..achieving a 50%karate 25%jujitsu 25%aikido split. He also went on to add that by the time a student reaches his/her black belt (5-6 years), they would have learnt almost 60 Aikido techniques alone. So no, they're not trying to ride the MMA wave, he was clear that they are a karate style, but for self-defense purposes, they have added the Aikido and Jujitsu aspect (ie. the effectiveness of a karate practitioner on the ground or in a grapple is hampered, whereas with the addition of jujitsu and Aikido, he becomes more rounded a fighter - well, my interpretation anyway

What you think?


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## RyuShiKan (Oct 10, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Koga-Shinobi _
> 
> *   ............. But what he said that although a lot of jujitsu techniques can be found in some of the Kata, most practitioners/students dont ever see it or find it and therefore it gets lost. *



I don't know about that.........there seem to be more than a few people that have a good idea about kata and what's in them. Sounds like he is covering his own ***.
I have studied karate for a few years and never seen any jujutsu or Aikido moves in karate kata. There are tuite moves which to the untrained eye might seem similar but they are different.
Also.........the word is Jujutsu not jitsu.........there is no such word as Jujitsu in the Japanese Lang..



> _Originally posted by Koga-Shinobi _
> 
> * ie. the effectiveness of a karate practitioner on the ground or in a grapple is hampered, whereas with the addition of jujitsu and Aikido, he becomes more rounded a fighter - well, my interpretation anyway
> 
> What you think? *



I always laugh when someone tells me that. 
I used to go to this event that was held once a month on Saturdays in Tokyo where all different kinds of martial arts people would get together and workout (i.e. beat the hell out of each other) There was one guy there that was a real "flag waver" for MMA and Gracie Jujutsu, neither of which I have a problem with, I just don't like "over zealous in your face flag wavers" that talk sxxt.
Anyway he went on to tell me how Karate was so inferior on the ground and how a grappler would hand me my *** and that tuite wouldn't work on the ground and blah, blah, blah. I gave him his chance to "school" me in the errors of my art................I beat him 5 out of 5 times.
The first match I got him on his back and drove my elbow into his throat and then took his arm and but some tuite on it he taped out ...........that match lasted all of about 20 seconds. The other 4 got shorter and shorter. BTW, all the moves I did to win were from kata....just adapted to use for a non-standing position. He also pissed and moaned about how bad his throat hurt after words.........I figured screw him, maybe he will keep his mouth shut and train more then. There is a nickname for people like that in Japanese.....it's called a "kuchi bushi".........it means mouth warrior.
I would also like to add that had he been better at his art than I am at mine he might have one......but he was a talker not a doer........ it's never the art but the artist.


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## Damian Mavis (Oct 10, 2002)

"I figured screw him, maybe he will keep his mouth shut and train more then."

That brings a tear to my eye.... it's beautiful to see arrogant machismo put in it's place haha.  Wish I'd seen it.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD


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