# NYS Bans Ephedra



## Bob Hubbard (Nov 5, 2003)

> State law bans over-the-counter ephedra sale
> By MICHAEL GORMLEY
> Associated Press
> 11/4/2003
> ...


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## someguy (Nov 5, 2003)

I wondered how long it would take for it to be baned there.


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## Shiatsu (Nov 5, 2003)

The uneducated make another decision.:rofl:


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## Jay Bell (Nov 5, 2003)

FINALLY!!!   

Ephedra Can Cause Stroke 

Ephedra Dangers 

About Ephedra


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## Shiatsu (Nov 5, 2003)

Oh goodness, I'm staying out of this one.  Next they will ban red meat and french fries for clogging of the arteries.  It is just like people sueing Mc Donalds for being fat, or sueing cigarette companies, for the lung cancer, that they warn about on the box.  So sense some dopes who have pre existing conditions, or take three or four times the recommended dose, croke from being absolute morons, we should all be punished.:shrug:


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## Arthur (Nov 5, 2003)

They've got the first one in, it will happen every where soon.  I've been expecting this for a long time.

Guess I better start growing it myself now while its still legal to plant the seeds.

Arthur (Chinese Herbalist whoise patients and biz have just suffered at the hands of government regulation... again) Sennott


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## Shiatsu (Nov 5, 2003)

Hey Arthur, do you have a website?  Or where did you learn Chinese herbalism?  I have always been interested in it.:asian:


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## theletch1 (Nov 5, 2003)

> They've got the first one in, it will happen every where soon


 Not the first one.  I think I remember one of the mid-western states doing the same this past summer.  Indiana or Illinois.  I'd be interested to see how many of the deaths that are attributed to this happened to persons who used the recommended dosage and who had no other conditions that could be affected.  I've used ephedra myself to stay awake through the night while driving.  The first time I used it I doubled the dosage on the package and noticed and elevated heart rate, so I never use more than what's on the package as the recommended.  Wonder why others don't use the same common sense?


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## Jay Bell (Nov 5, 2003)

Because unfortunately, Americans are all about excess.  If Aleve says take 2 every 12 hours, we take 5 because it hurts bad.

I'm not a fan of Ephedra *at all*....however you bring up a good point that the blame is being pointed at the herb...and not at the person popping the pills.

I knew a gal for many years that could not physically sleep unless she had either Soma or Ecedrine PM.  She developed Psuedo-Tumor Cerebri from the Soma........yet continued to take it, often six at a time.


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## Arthur (Nov 6, 2003)

> Hey Arthur, do you have a website?


Yup, I've got a few. If you click on my signature, it will take you to my martial site. I don't about any healing stuff there though. Over on the Russian Martial Art Forum I administer, we've put in some health sections and I talk about Sotai and stuff sometimes. The RMA forum is at www.rmaforum.com

At anyrate, feel free to email if you want to talk shiatsu or Chinese Med.



> Or where did you learn Chinese herbalism?


I aprenticed with Wang Bing in Boston. His family has been doing chinese medicine for about 600 years.



> I have always been interested in it.


Me too.



> I'm not a fan of Ephedra *at all*....


I am. Its fantastic for aiding and healing a number of respiratory ailments... and in some situations can be used to treat injuries in an excellent way. I know many people who can now lead productive lives thanks to the healing powers of the herb.

From a Chinese medical perspective, Ephedra is definately not meant to be used as a stimulant. the herb itself has done nothing wrong, there is no reason to feel badly toward it. 

Going to get up on my :soapbox: 
Of course feeling that the use of Ephedra as a weight loss or bodybuilding supplement is stupid and hazardous... well that's another thing. I point out what may be obvious, because its important how we use our language. When we assume the language of the propagandists, we become a tool for their bidding. 

Blaming inanimate objects for anything, furthers the downward spiral towards no personal accountability in this country. Guns don't kill people, cocaine doesn't get people high, and Ehedra doesn't cause heart attacks.... people  chosing to use these things in a particular way does.

Okay, I'm climbing down off the soapbox.

Arthur
PS from a Chinese med perspective when Ephedra, cocaine, cffeine, etc.. is used as a stimulant, what it actually does is act as a catalyst fro drawing energy from your own stores... concesquently the energy you get now... is just subtracted from the end of your life. even in Chinese medicine the _Law of Conservation Of Energy_ still applies


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## Bob Hubbard (Nov 7, 2003)

The problems always been in the misuse of the herb.  Jays right...Americans addiction to excess is really the problem.

Arthur, you get my PM?

:asian:


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## Cruentus (Nov 7, 2003)

In Michigan, most health food stores like GNC and such won't sell ephedra products because insurance companies won't cover the stores in Michigan for liability if they do. So we probably won't pass a law here, but the insurance banning will prevent sales just the same.


I am so fricking tired of our government having to legislate against stupidity. Just because people are stupid enough to O.D. on ephedra, that doesn't mean that our government should now ban it. I friggin hate the idea of the government telling me what to do with my body.

The in every case where people have hurt themselves on ephedra, they took way more then what was directed. There fault if their heart stops, and not anyone elses. 

Maybe we should make tylonal, Nyquil, and things of that sort illigal as well; people are f-in dumb enough to OD over that!


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## Cruentus (Nov 7, 2003)

> The Ephedra Education Council, an industry-funded group, previously said the supplement is safe when used correctly. The group also said there is no clinical study that shows any adverse effect.



And here is the real problem. The advocates for Ephedra say "no clinical study shows adverse effects." which leads people to believe that taking more then directed might be O.K.. It is clearly not O.K., and taking more then what is directed can really hurt or kill you.

The drug shouldn't be banned. However, people need to be more truthful; if it can be harmful, they should say so.


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## Cruentus (Nov 7, 2003)

> Douglas Hanson, of Huntington, also blames the death of his wife, Anne, on the supplement five years ago. She died of a massive brain hemorrhage after exercising. They have two children.



See...more propiganda, emotional, innaccurate crap! It is unfortunate that Douglas Hanson's wife died. But Douglas is not a Doctor or a scientest who has studied the drug; his "blame" has no credability. The fact is, we don't know if the linkage between ephedra and brain hemmoraging in her case has been proven.

ODing on ephedra can cause damage, but the media clouds the issue, and it is hard for the public and the legislatures to determine what damage is actually caused by the drug, and what isn't. They write an emotional account of poor so-and-so who died after taking the drug, and "she had 2 children," and we are all supposed to get emotionally riled up against the drug, and we do, without asking the pertinent questions. How mich did she take? Has har death been attributed to the drug by experts? etc.


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## theletch1 (Nov 7, 2003)

> is used as a stimulant, what it actually does is act as a catalyst fro drawing energy from your own stores... concesquently the energy you get now... is just subtracted from the end of your life.


 I'll vouch for that.  If I've been running hard all week long and need to use the ephedra as a stimulant (not often any more) to make those last couple hundred miles to get back to the house I definetly feel it come bed time friday night or in sleeping later than usual on saturday morning.


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## lhommedieu (Nov 7, 2003)

Certainly I'd like to have the Government off my back with respect to unnecessary legislation.  From the perspective of a practitioner of Chinese medicine, the ephedra debate is, however, not a black or white issue, and is definitely troubling.  A previous post of mine is offered below (I've highlighted the aspect of epheda that bothers me the most):



> Ma Huang (ephedra) has been used for centuries by the Chinese to treat the common cold, flu, cough, wheezing, etc. While very effective, Ma Huang is almost always combined with other herbs to facilitate its effect on specific complaints (most, if not all herbal formulas are crafted in this way) or to mitigate it's side-effects. For example, if too much of this herb is used, or for too long, it may cause heavy sweating that weakens the body. This is why smaller amounts of the herb are almost always combined with other herbs to create a synergestic effect.
> 
> Ma Huang is a bronchiodilator. It also promotes sweating and urination. In addition, it is a vasoconstrictor, and long term use can lead to increases in blood pressure, anxiety, and tremors. Ingestion of too much ephedra can stimulate both the cerebral contex and subsortical centers, causing insomnia and restlessness.
> 
> ...



Interesting that the current ban on ephedra-based products effects those that are mostly used for weight-loss or to boost sexual function; no responsible Chinese herbalist would prescribe 
Ma Huang for such a purpose - particularly at higher-than-normal doses over an extended period of time - given the cautions and contraindications given above.  This is, however, the way in which many of the herbal supplement companies that will be effected by the ban have designed and marketed their product.  Unfortunately, herbal shops selling legitimate Chinese herbal patent formulas, as well as raw herbs for traditional decoction, now have to worry about whether they will be targeted next.  I suspect that legitimate Chinese herbalist and herb shops will be "grandfathered" in.

Best,

Steve Lamade


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