# Dungeons and Dragons, a return



## Flying Crane (Aug 2, 2022)

We’ve talked a bit about D&D here in the past and I wanted to come back to it for a moment.  Couldn’t find the thread I was thinking of, so I’m starting a new one.

I played the game starting probably in the very early 1980s when I was in grade school.  I don’t remember how old I was, but I remember enjoying it a lot.  We started with the basic set, then the Expert set, and eventually the first edition of the AD&D series, the Player’s Handbook, the Dungeon Master’s Guide, and the Monster Manual.  My older brother and I played with a group of neighborhood kids who were a few years older than us, but we were welcomed into it.  

Later, my brother and I would play a bit on our own, sometimes bringing in some other friends to join us.  I was away from it for a few years but then played a bit again in High School, at the very end of the 1980s.  

I haven't played since, but often found myself nostalgic for it.  I felt like I would likely never play again, I was just busy with other things in life, I didn’t have connections with anyone who was playing, my wife grew up in the group of kids who thought D&D was for stupid nerds, and since I never played the role of Dungeon Master, I found the idea of starting my own group rather daunting. 

So now my wife and I have been watching Stranger Things on Netflix, the show is set in the mid 1980s which is exactly the era we grew up in, and the characters play a lot of D&D, suddenly the interest is back up.  Our son is eight years old, we are reading The Lord of the Rings together and he has seen the movies many times.  So I finally bought the current edition Starter set, taught myself to be DM, and last night we had our first session of play.  We had a lot of fun, didn’t accomplish much and it will take a while before we become good at it and I become a skilled DM, but it was great.  

Just wanted to share.


----------



## Steve (Aug 2, 2022)

Flying Crane said:


> We’ve talked a bit about D&D here in the past and I wanted to come back to it for a moment.  Couldn’t find the thread I was thinking of, so I’m starting a new one.
> 
> I played the game starting probably in the very early 1980s when I was in grade school.  I don’t remember how old I was, but I remember enjoying it a lot.  We started with the basic set, then the Expert set, and eventually the first edition of the AD&D series, the Player’s Handbook, the Dungeon Master’s Guide, and the Monster Manual.  My older brother and I played with a group of neighborhood kids who were a few years older than us, but we were welcomed into it.
> 
> ...


I don’t play much anymore but I did pick up the current rules to teach my youngest. She plays with her friends now in real life and also in a virtual session with friends from her school.  I really like the current rule set.  I’m a big fan of the 3.5e rules and 5e seems to be a simpler version, lighter on mechanics and more geared toward storytelling.

Like you, I’ve been playing since the early 80s when elf was both a race and a class and we had dice that were not very regular in shape and came with a crayon.  😅


----------



## jks9199 (Aug 2, 2022)

Steve said:


> Like you, I’ve been playing since the early 80s when elf was both a race and a class and we had dice that were not very regular in shape and came with a crayon.  😅


I had those dice, too...

And the hardbacked Advanced game sets, too...

And played Traveller (you can actually find a free version of the Traveller RPG if you dig around a little online), and several others like a James Bond themed rule set, and space/sci-fi themed boxed set.


----------



## Tony Dismukes (Aug 2, 2022)

I started with AD&D back in my teens, then didn’t play for about 25 years. Then about 15 years ago my wife and I were looking for a social activity in a new town and ended up meeting some people for D&D. We started with 4th edition, then Pathfinder, then 5th edition, with a few other systems mixed in on occasion. We’ve had probably 10-20 different people rotate through the group over the years, but we’re back to some of the same people we started with 15 years ago. During the pandemic we switched from in-person to playing online and now we’re still mostly online, meeting in person about once per month.


----------



## Flying Crane (Aug 2, 2022)

Tony Dismukes said:


> I started with AD&D back in my teens, then didn’t play for about 25 years. Then about 15 years ago my wife and I were looking for a social activity in a new town and ended up meeting some people for D&D. We started with 4th edition, then Pathfinder, then 5th edition, with a few other systems mixed in on occasion. We’ve had probably 10-20 different people rotate through the group over the years, but we’re back to some of the same people we started with 15 years ago. During the pandemic we switched from in-person to playing online and now we’re still mostly online, meeting in person about once per month.


I had read online that 4e was difficult to play with, had some kind of mandatory miniatures that made it expensive, and just wasn’t a great edition.  That is probably what was on the shelves when I would see it in the stores and wax nostalgic, but throw up my hands at the idea of trying to reconnect with it.  It just felt like it had grown into something that I couldn’t catch up to again.

But 5e has been better organized and made easier to play again.  I would like to get my hands on an early edition of the basic and expert sets, for posterity.


----------



## drop bear (Aug 2, 2022)

There are some good play podcasts.


----------



## Steve (Aug 2, 2022)

jks9199 said:


> I had those dice, too...
> 
> And the hardbacked Advanced game sets, too...
> 
> And played Traveller (you can actually find a free version of the Traveller RPG if you dig around a little online), and several others like a James Bond themed rule set, and space/sci-fi themed boxed set.


Oh yeah.  Boot Hill, gamma world, top secret, villains and vigilantes, traveller, champions, auto duel….  I dont think there’s one We didn’t play!  😅

Regarding 4e, I skipped that one and moved to pathfinder, which was a lot of fun.


----------



## MetalBoar (Aug 3, 2022)

It's fun to see how many on this board play D&D.  

I was introduced to D&D in ~1979 in elementary school and have kept it up ever since.  I've played a huge number of different RPGs over the years and hundreds of hours of D&D during that time.  These days I mostly GM Chaosium's Basic Roleplaying, Traveller (Mongoose 1st ed.), and Earthdawn (FASA 4th edition), but I'll play in pretty much anything.  I haven't played 5th ed. D&D yet, but I've heard good things about it. 

It's funny how things work out.  I've spent most of my life in either IT or the fitness industry after leaving bar tending in my middle 20's, but with Covid everything has changed.  I've closed my gym and moved cross country.  My tech resume is a little stale at this point and I didn't have the contacts here I did in Seattle.  I never thought playing RPGs would lead to work, but back at the end of 2021 one of the guys who's played in my games for close to 20 years asked me to write flash fiction and do narrative design and content development for a computer game startup he's involved with.  So, now in my early 50's I'm doing something completely new for a living, that's also something I've been doing as a hobby since I was like 8 years old and developing sci-fi, fantasy and other settings for a game company.

I've attached an image that I thought might amuse some of you.  It's just the RPGs that I bothered to haul cross country and then unpack at this point.


----------



## Flying Crane (Aug 3, 2022)

MetalBoar said:


> It's fun to see how many on this board play D&D.
> 
> I was introduced to D&D in ~1979 in elementary school and have kept it up ever since.  I've played a huge number of different RPGs over the years and hundreds of hours of D&D during that time.  These days I mostly GM Chaosium's Basic Roleplaying, Traveller (Mongoose 1st ed.), and Earthdawn (FASA 4th edition), but I'll play in pretty much anything.  I haven't played 5th ed. D&D yet, but I've heard good things about it.
> 
> ...


Wow, that is quite the collection!  I see there is a game based on Thieves’ World.  I read those books back as a teenager, didn’t know there was a game based on it.


----------



## Rich Parsons (Aug 3, 2022)

I was introduced in Summer of '79 going into 8th grade. 
I have played Basic, Expert, AD&D 1st, 2nd, 5th & Pathfinder 1 & 2. 
The little dabbles into 3.0 / 3,5 I do not count. Never tried 4th . 

We also played Boot Hill, Gamma World , Star Wars D6, Top Secret and may others. 

I have played Shadowrun form 1st through 5th (including Anniversary). Interaction with the game designers at a Con stopped me while in 5th and have not looked at 6th at all. 

World of Darkness, preferred Mage, and have played some Vampire and also Changeling. Just read some Werewolf and Wraith. 
I Did not like the next versions after the 90's. 

I have played a little Cyber Punk. 

I have played Hero, Twilight 2000, Outbreak Undead , and many more

I have helped friends work on their own games, some got published and or their works got them a named position with others. 

Currently play testing some rules for a friend. 


Never really took a break from Gaming. If one game was down, I would run Shadowrun or something else and find a way to play once a month.


----------



## Steve (Aug 3, 2022)

One of my favorite things about the D20 ruleset is that it really maximized flexibility to take levels in different classes, which made coming up with concepts for a PC really wide open.  That along with some rules for monstrous PCs and a little creativity (and a receptive DM), you could come up with whatever crazy idea you wanted and figure out a build.  Want to play a rank and file soldier who always felt like he was meant for something more and discovers some wild magical ability?  you could even allude to some ancient connection to dragons and start giving him levels in sorcerer.  I've run clumsy rogues and dumb wizards, and everything in between.  Super fun, and they could be done in a way that was viable.  

5e seems to have taken that even further, making it extremely inclusive and welcoming to everyone, including folks with disabilities.  One of the kids in my daughter's group uses a wheelchair in real life, and has adopted the rules for a "combat wheelchair" that were developed as a bit of homebrew equipment.  

I'm also really happy to see that the D&D community seems to be very diverse and inclusive now, compared to 20 or 30 years ago.


----------



## Flying Crane (Aug 3, 2022)

Rich Parsons said:


> I was introduced in Summer of '79 going into 8th grade.
> I have played Basic, Expert, AD&D 1st, 2nd, 5th & Pathfinder 1 & 2.
> The little dabbles into 3.0 / 3,5 I do not count. Never tried 4th .
> 
> ...


I really cannot recall when I started, but it is possible it was the very end of the 1970s, I would have been in third or possibly fourth grade.  That seems pretty young, but I think it is possible.

I recall Twighlight 2000 and Villains and Vigilantes, I believe I played those a little bit with friends in high school, around the same time we did D&D.

I had the Top Secret game but only tried to play it once or twice, I was a miserable GM at the time.


----------



## Wing Woo Gar (Aug 3, 2022)

Flying Crane said:


> We’ve talked a bit about D&D here in the past and I wanted to come back to it for a moment.  Couldn’t find the thread I was thinking of, so I’m starting a new one.
> 
> I played the game starting probably in the very early 1980s when I was in grade school.  I don’t remember how old I was, but I remember enjoying it a lot.  We started with the basic set, then the Expert set, and eventually the first edition of the AD&D series, the Player’s Handbook, the Dungeon Master’s Guide, and the Monster Manual.  My older brother and I played with a group of neighborhood kids who were a few years older than us, but we were welcomed into it.
> 
> ...


My training brothers and I have had a weekly game for 24 years. Come on up and have a sit down. Jess o Brien is a player. Nei Jia Quan author.


----------



## Flying Crane (Aug 3, 2022)

Wing Woo Gar said:


> My training brothers and I have had a weekly game for 24 years. Come on up and have a sit down. Jess o Brien is a player. Nei Jia Quan author.


That is a long standing brotherhood, there.


----------



## Wing Woo Gar (Aug 3, 2022)

drop bear said:


> There are some good play podcasts.


Check out Vox Machina. It’s awesome. There is even an animated show based on their campaign.


----------



## Wing Woo Gar (Aug 3, 2022)

Steve said:


> Oh yeah.  Boot Hill, gamma world, top secret, villains and vigilantes, traveller, champions, auto duel….  I dont think there’s one We didn’t play!  😅
> 
> Regarding 4e, I skipped that one and moved to pathfinder, which was a lot of fun.


Boot Hill! Awesome!


----------



## Wing Woo Gar (Aug 3, 2022)

Flying Crane said:


> I really cannot recall when I started, but it is possible it was the very end of the 1970s, I would have been in third or possibly fourth grade.  That seems pretty young, but I think it is possible.
> 
> I recall Twighlight 2000 and Villains and Vigilantes, I believe I played those a little bit with friends in high school, around the same time we did D&D.
> 
> I had the Top Secret game but only tried to play it once or twice, I was a miserable GM at the time.


I played most of those. I got my first basic set around 1979. been hooked ever since. I probably have around 3500 miniatures, mostly metal, mostly painted. Some are from the 70s grenadier sets but most date from 1980s Ral Partha up to my most recent acquisitions from 2019. Anyone ever play a judges guild module called The Dark Tower? It has been reprinted for 5th Ed. Rules. The company who reprinted it also made a series of figurines that go with the module and represent most of the encountered individuals. I bought the whole set and painted them ahead of starting the campaign. It was great to have the actual figures for both adversaries and allies.


----------



## Wing Woo Gar (Aug 3, 2022)

Flying Crane said:


> That is a long standing brotherhood, there.


We have always stayed very tight. There are quite a few of us left that still train. We have a set of five year students that we have been bringing into the fold. Most of the younger s are late 20s or early 30s. The invite was sincere. You are welcome.


----------



## Steve (Aug 3, 2022)

Gamma World was good.  Having played a lot of AD&D, there was something exotic about the hex patter maps and the tech discovery matrixes.  I also liked the idea of that post-apocalyptic setting.

Autoduel Champions was another really fun one.  My brother and I played both Car Wars and Champions, so combining the two was a no brainer.  Mad Max style car battles plus superheroes?  Yes, please.

I don't think I'll ever play this game again, but I'll keep this book because it has a lot of good memories of playing with my brother.


----------



## Flying Crane (Aug 3, 2022)

Wing Woo Gar said:


> We have always stayed very tight. There are quite a few of us left that still train. We have a set of five year students that we have been bringing into the fold. Most of the younger s are late 20s or early 30s. The invite was sincere. You are welcome.


Very much appreciated.  If I find myself heading in that direction I’ll definitely get in touch.

And of course if you ever find yourself in the Sacramento area, please do get in touch.


----------



## MetalBoar (Aug 3, 2022)

Flying Crane said:


> I really cannot recall when I started, but it is possible it was the very end of the 1970s, I would have been in third or possibly fourth grade.  That seems pretty young, but I think it is possible.
> 
> I recall Twighlight 2000 and Villains and Vigilantes, I believe I played those a little bit with friends in high school, around the same time we did D&D.
> 
> I had the Top Secret game but only tried to play it once or twice, I was a miserable GM at the time.


Yeah, my older cousin introduced me to D&D in 3rd grade.  I had no idea how to GM and was terrible at it for years, but we had fun anyway.  To be fair to my younger self, a fair number of the professionally published modules were kind of terrible back then too, and the whole hobby was in its infancy so there wasn't a lot to guide me.


----------



## Monkey Turned Wolf (Aug 3, 2022)

Flying Crane said:


> We’ve talked a bit about D&D here in the past and I wanted to come back to it for a moment.  Couldn’t find the thread I was thinking of, so I’m starting a new one.


I believe that was my thread. A plan to create a post-by-post campaign on here, but have not had the time/energy to plan it out yet.


----------



## MetalBoar (Aug 3, 2022)

Flying Crane said:


> Wow, that is quite the collection!  I see there is a game based on Thieves’ World.  I read those books back as a teenager, didn’t know there was a game based on it.


Back in the 80's Chaosium made it easy for people to publish settings using their Basic Roleplaying system, so there were Thieves' World supplements, some stuff from Midkemia Press (the gaming group that created the world where Raymond Feist set his Riftwar novels) and others that I'm forgetting.  It was often some of the better stuff available at the time.


----------



## Flying Crane (Aug 3, 2022)

MetalBoar said:


> Yeah, my older cousin introduced me to D&D in 3rd grade.  I had no idea how to GM and was terrible at it for years, but we had fun anyway.  To be fair to my younger self, a fair number of the professionally published modules were kind of terrible back then too, and the whole hobby was in its infancy so there wasn't a lot to guide me.


Very true, that.

Funny thing, it has taken on something of an inflated position in my mind, because I think my subconscious has turned it into something bigger than it needs to be.  I mean, there is all this HISTORY behind the game and there are TOURNAMENTS and CLUBS and GEN-CON and such, and it’s funny but I actually let it intimidate me.  I bought the starter set and read the rules a dozen times and agonized over the minutia and put off starting the play because I had to know I was getting it RIGHT.  I finally realized, it’s a bloody game and I’m playing with my wife and son, for Thor’s sake.  If I get stuck, MAKE IT UP!!  

So now we are just playing and I can relax.


----------



## MetalBoar (Aug 3, 2022)

Flying Crane said:


> If I get stuck, MAKE IT UP!!


So much this!


----------



## Dirty Dog (Aug 3, 2022)

Wing Woo Gar said:


> Check out Vox Machina. It’s awesome. There is even an animated show based on their campaign.


The podcast is Critical Role. Vox Machina is the name of the group of characters played in campaign 1. Followed by the Mighty Nein in campaign 2 and Bells Hells in campaign 3. 
Given that the entire group are voice actors, the role playing is a few steps above anything the rest of us can hope for.


----------



## jks9199 (Aug 3, 2022)

Just for fun... This place is in my general area...  Tabletop Tavern


----------



## Wing Woo Gar (Aug 3, 2022)

Flying Crane said:


> Very much appreciated.  If I find myself heading in that direction I’ll definitely get in touch.
> 
> And of course if you ever find yourself in the Sacramento area, please do get in touch.


One of my closest training brothers live in sac. He is the director of veterans resource center. pm me contact info. He might be close enough to come check out your class. He is one that moved away from humboldt but trained and gamed with us for many years.


----------



## Wing Woo Gar (Aug 3, 2022)

MetalBoar said:


> So much this!


It’s on the first page of the phb. The DM is the final arbiter…


----------



## Wing Woo Gar (Aug 3, 2022)

Dirty Dog said:


> The podcast is Critical Role. Vox Machina is the name of the group of characters played in campaign 1. Followed by the Mighty Nein in campaign 2 and Bells Hells in campaign 3.
> Given that the entire group are voice actors, the role playing is a few steps above anything the rest of us can hope for.


Yes that is correct! Thank you for that clarification. I thought it was really quite good in both iterations, and I look forward to more Vox Machina. The title of which seems to be a play on words.


----------



## Dirty Dog (Aug 4, 2022)

Wing Woo Gar said:


> It’s on the first page of the phb. The DM is the final arbiter…


That's rule zero. Which is itself a reference (I think) to Asimov's _Robot_ series, in which his _Three Laws of Robotics_ eventually evolved to include a _Zeroeth Law_. My favorite unwritten rule is the _Rule of Cool_. If what a character wants to do would be funny/cool/awesome/entertaining without breaking the game, let them do it. 


Wing Woo Gar said:


> Yes that is correct! Thank you for that clarification. I thought it was really quite good in both iterations, and I look forward to more Vox Machina. The title of which seems to be a play on words.


The Critical Role people did a Kickstarter to raise money to produce an animater short. That ended up raising so much that they changed gears and started working on a series based on their entire campaign. 
Campaign 1 starts (online) mid-campaign. They just took the campaign they'd been playing at home and started doing it on YouTube. 2 & 3 start from 2nd level.
The names are always word play. In campaign 2, one of the characters had a German accent. One session, it seemed that all anybody could roll was a 9. Combine those, and you get the Mighty Nein. Which led to lots of role played confusion, since there were only 7 party members.


----------



## Wing Woo Gar (Aug 4, 2022)

Dirty Dog said:


> That's rule zero. Which is itself a reference (I think) to Asimov's _Robot_ series, in which his _Three Laws of Robotics_ eventually evolved to include a _Zeroeth Law_. My favorite unwritten rule is the _Rule of Cool_. If what a character wants to do would be funny/cool/awesome/entertaining without breaking the game, let them do it.
> 
> The Critical Role people did a Kickstarter to raise money to produce an animater short. That ended up raising so much that they changed gears and started working on a series based on their entire campaign.
> Campaign 1 starts (online) mid-campaign. They just took the campaign they'd been playing at home and started doing it on YouTube. 2 & 3 start from 2nd level.
> The names are always word play. In campaign 2, one of the characters had a German accent. One session, it seemed that all anybody could roll was a 9. Combine those, and you get the Mighty Nein. Which led to lots of role played confusion, since there were only 7 party members.


I have been waiting for this kind of thing for 40 years. As a child I always fantasized how we could turn our campaign into a watchable film.


----------



## Tony Dismukes (Aug 4, 2022)

BTW, the trailer for the new D&D movie coming out next year looks way better than I would have expected.




If nothing else, they’ve got the bestiary which helps distinguish D&D from a generic fantasy setting. Owlbears, displacer beasts, mimics, gelatinous cubes, black dragons… We’re probably going to organize an outing to the the with our game group.


----------



## Flying Crane (Aug 4, 2022)

Tony Dismukes said:


> BTW, the trailer for the new D&D movie coming out next year looks way better than I would have expected.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I was utterly unaware of this.  It looks great, I can’t wait!


----------



## Dirty Dog (Aug 4, 2022)

Tony Dismukes said:


> BTW, the trailer for the new D&D movie coming out next year looks way better than I would have expected.
> If nothing else, they’ve got the bestiary which helps distinguish D&D from a generic fantasy setting. Owlbears, displacer beasts, mimics, gelatinous cubes, black dragons… We’re probably going to organize an outing to the the with our game group.


I think it looks amazing. The other attempts have fallen flat, mostly (I think) because the actors were mediocre at best, and the special effects budgets were about $1.75. 
I'm really looking forward to this one.


----------



## Steve (Aug 4, 2022)

Tony Dismukes said:


> BTW, the trailer for the new D&D movie coming out next year looks way better than I would have expected.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This looks terrific.  I’m looking forward to seeing it with a very large group of nerds.


----------



## Flying Crane (Aug 6, 2022)

Setting the mood for last night’s play.


----------



## Rich Parsons (Aug 6, 2022)

Flying Crane said:


> Setting the mood for last night’s play.



Who made the weapons if you can say or remember?


----------



## Flying Crane (Aug 6, 2022)

Rich Parsons said:


> Who made the weapons if you can say or remember?


The battle axe came from a website years ago, Hbforge.com, if I remember correctly.  I made the hickory handle for it.

The kukhri came from an Etsy shop in Nepal, I believe the shop name is Everestforge.  It was either them or a competitor, one of them split from the other, I don’t remember exactly which way it went.

The sword blade was made by Angus Trim and I built the hilt and scabbard.


----------



## Judo boi (Dec 2, 2022)

Ex D&D nerd here glad to see I am in good company. Haven't played since the early nineties, but I owned and am familiar with rulesets up to 2nd edition. Also a big Warhammer(Fantasy only) and Magic the gathering geek.. well met kindred spirits! D&D was what got me into martial arts in the first place. I figured why play a fictitious warrior when I could become one in real life? Because I usually played warrior/thief or assassin  characters I started off training in Ninjutsu, then evolved into training in more full contact arts. The rest is history!


----------



## granfire (Dec 2, 2022)

My son has considered getting me into it. 
it's been offered at the library for a couple of years now, went virtual for obvious reasons, but seems to be back in-person. 

It is in again (and I think the trend predates the TV show)


----------



## Steve (Dec 2, 2022)

granfire said:


> My son has considered getting me into it.
> it's been offered at the library for a couple of years now, went virtual for obvious reasons, but seems to be back in-person.
> 
> It is in again (and I think the trend predates the TV show)


It's fun, and the new(ish) 5e rules are solid.  My youngest is having a great time with it.


----------



## Dirty Dog (Dec 2, 2022)

granfire said:


> It is in again (and I think the trend predates the TV show)


If you're talking about the *Vox Machina* series on Amazon, then you are correct. I think YouTube can take credit for being the vessel for the D&D resurgence. The Critical Role folks, mostly. These folks started live streaming their games. And people loved it. The animated series is their first online campaign, although it doesn't start at the beginning. Vox Machine was the name of their party in that campaign. None of our games can really compare to theirs, in large part because the players & DM are all professional voice actors. So their role play is worlds beyond most of us.


Steve said:


> It's fun, and the new(ish) 5e rules are solid.  My youngest is having a great time with it.


They've released One D&D for playtesting, so 5e will be going the way of AD&D. I have not looked into it yet, because my gaming time has been spent doing Beta testing for Blizzard on Diablo: Immortal and Diablo 4, but it sounds solid.


----------



## granfire (Dec 2, 2022)

Dirty Dog said:


> If you're talking about the *Vox Machina* series on Amazon, then you are correct. I think YouTube can take credit for being the vessel for the D&D resurgence. The Critical Role folks, mostly. These folks started live streaming their games. And people loved it. The animated series is their first online campaign, although it doesn't start at the beginning. Vox Machine was the name of their party in that campaign. None of our games can really compare to theirs, in large part because the players & DM are all professional voice actors. So their role play is worlds beyond most of us.
> 
> They've released One D&D for playtesting, so 5e will be going the way of AD&D. I have not looked into it yet, because my gaming time has been spent doing Beta testing for Blizzard on Diablo: Immortal and Diablo 4, but it sounds solid.


No idea. It was 4 or so years ago when they started to offer it, before lockdown. 
they are also offering an online session, it might be on Discord.


----------



## Dirty Dog (Dec 2, 2022)

granfire said:


> No idea. It was 4 or so years ago when they started to offer it, before lockdown.
> they are also offering an online session, it might be on Discord.


Are you sure you don't mean Twitch?


----------



## granfire (Dec 2, 2022)

Dirty Dog said:


> Are you sure you don't mean Twitch?


nope. 
I was busy, and just glanced at the online offer. 
Discord is the other online gamer communication hub though. Including streamed content.


----------



## Flying Crane (Dec 23, 2022)

Had fun playing through the Lost Mines of Phandelver, the adventure that came with the  Basic set, and then Dragon of Icespire Peak, the adventure that came with the Essentials set, although that one was not as well written.  I wrote a ton of new material into the last section, to satisfy my sense of challenge to justify the advancement that was supposed to come after it.  

I’m also working on developing a new villian, based on the Huntsmen of Annuvin, from Lloyd Alexander’s Prydain Chronicles, a Tolkien-ish adventure aimed at a younger audience, published in the 1960s and one of my personal favorites from my childhood.  Anyone else familiar with that?


----------



## Tony Dismukes (Dec 23, 2022)

Flying Crane said:


> Lloyd Alexander’s Prydain Chronicles, a Tolkien-ish adventure aimed at a younger audience, published in the 1960s and one of my personal favorites from my childhood. Anyone else familiar with that?


I loved the Prydain Chronicles when I was a kid. Memorable characters, solid storytelling, and some good lessons for younger readers.


----------



## Tony Dismukes (Dec 23, 2022)

My D&D group is within a few sessions of wrapping up our current campaign, which has been going on for about 3 years now. During the pandemic we switched to mostly playing via video chat and we're still doing that most of the time just because it's easier to schedule that way. Once we're done with that, one of our players is going to try her hand at DM-ing for the first time with a basic dungeon crawl.


----------



## Flying Crane (Dec 23, 2022)

Tony Dismukes said:


> My D&D group is within a few sessions of wrapping up our current campaign, which has been going on for about 3 years now. During the pandemic we switched to mostly playing via video chat and we're still doing that most of the time just because it's easier to schedule that way. Once we're done with that, one of our players is going to try her hand at DM-ing for the first time with a basic dungeon crawl.


As a Christmas gift for the family, I picked up the PHB, DMG, and MM so we can now play with a wider range of freedom.  I also picked up Tomb of Annihilation because my son saw it in the store and liked the cover.  The people I asked about it said it is well written and it tough.  A good adventure if the DM wants to kill off his players.   Looking forward to it, although killing off the 9 year-old’s character is probably not a good idea.


----------



## Flying Crane (Dec 23, 2022)

Tony Dismukes said:


> My D&D group is within a few sessions of wrapping up our current campaign, which has been going on for about 3 years now. During the pandemic we switched to mostly playing via video chat and we're still doing that most of the time just because it's easier to schedule that way. Once we're done with that, one of our players is going to try her hand at DM-ing for the first time with a basic dungeon crawl.


As a new DM myself, I am highly supportive of people giving it a try.


----------



## Flying Crane (Dec 23, 2022)

Tony Dismukes said:


> I loved the Prydain Chronicles when I was a kid. Memorable characters, solid storytelling, and some good lessons for younger readers.


I don’t know why the huntsmen were never turned into a D&D villian.  Maybe licensing, copywrite issues or something.  But they seemed like an obvious choice.  I made it more than simply giving them more HP each time one of their war band dies.  So I started adding additional skills and such when certain percentages of their warband are killed.  Additional attacks on each turn, additional speed, advantage on savings throws for constitution, so things like suffocation and exhaustion.  They can hold their breath longer, they can seamlessly switch between weapon choices without spending an action, so they can shoot their bow at a distant target and then switch to melee weapons and still get in every attack on their turn.  They fight with double weapons for melee, so the last guy standing is a buzz saw, getting in four attackes on each turn, dual weapons give him eight actual attacks.

I haven’t had much of a chance to workshop them yet, and I recognize they are complicated to play.  But I really like the idea.  XP is a challenge as well, because their toughness can vary dramatically depending on the size of their party and their starting HP.


----------



## Dirty Dog (Dec 23, 2022)

Flying Crane said:


> As a Christmas gift for the family, I picked up the PHB, DMG, and MM so we can now play with a wider range of freedom.  I also picked up Tomb of Annihilation because my son saw it in the store and liked the cover.  The people I asked about it said it is well written and it tough.  A good adventure if the DM wants to kill off his players.   Looking forward to it, although killing off the 9 year-old’s character is probably not a good idea.


That module has been around since the days of AD&D. I think I have an original in a box somewhere. It's been adapted to the 5e rules, but the traps and such are pretty much unchanged.


----------



## Tony Dismukes (Dec 23, 2022)

Flying Crane said:


> I don’t know why the huntsmen were never turned into a D&D villian.  Maybe licensing, copywrite issues or something.  But they seemed like an obvious choice.  I made it more than simply giving them more HP each time one of their war band dies.  So I started adding additional skills and such when certain percentages of their warband are killed.  Additional attacks on each turn, additional speed, advantage on savings throws for constitution, so things like suffocation and exhaustion.  They can hold their breath longer, they can seamlessly switch between weapon choices without spending an action, so they can shoot their bow at a distant target and then switch to melee weapons and still get in every attack on their turn.  They fight with double weapons for melee, so the last guy standing is a buzz saw, getting in four attackes on each turn, dual weapons give him eight actual attacks.
> 
> I haven’t had much of a chance to workshop them yet, and I recognize they are complicated to play.  But I really like the idea.  XP is a challenge as well, because their toughness can vary dramatically depending on the size of their party and their starting HP.


I like your idea. After we get through the next dungeon crawl campaign, then it will probably be my turn to DM again and I have a home-brew campaign setting that I like to use. I might stick something like the huntsmen in there.


----------



## Dirty Dog (Dec 23, 2022)

Flying Crane said:


> I don’t know why the huntsmen were never turned into a D&D villian.  Maybe licensing, copywrite issues or something.  But they seemed like an obvious choice.  I made it more than simply giving them more HP each time one of their war band dies.  So I started adding additional skills and such when certain percentages of their warband are killed.  Additional attacks on each turn, additional speed, advantage on savings throws for constitution, so things like suffocation and exhaustion.  They can hold their breath longer, they can seamlessly switch between weapon choices without spending an action, so they can shoot their bow at a distant target and then switch to melee weapons and still get in every attack on their turn.


Dropping a weapon is a free action. Drawing/picking up a weapon is an object interaction.


Flying Crane said:


> They fight with double weapons for melee, so the last guy standing is a buzz saw, getting in four attackes on each turn, dual weapons give him eight actual attacks.


That isn't how two weapon fighting works in 5e...
Your character gets X attacks per round (determined by the books). Using a second weapon changes that to X+1 attacks, with the single extra attack being with the off-hand. That off-hand attack doesn't get your usual bonuses unless you have the Two weapon fighting style or feat. And both of your weapons need to have the LIGHT property, so forget about using two longswords.
It's not a very good implementation, in my opinion. I think it was done for balance, but it just makes two weapon fighting untenable.


----------



## Flying Crane (Dec 23, 2022)

Dirty Dog said:


> Dropping a weapon is a free action. Drawing/picking up a weapon is an object interaction.
> 
> That isn't how two weapon fighting works in 5e...
> Your character gets X attacks per round (determined by the books). Using a second weapon changes that to X+1 attacks, with the single extra attack being with the off-hand. That off-hand attack doesn't get your usual bonuses unless you have the Two weapon fighting style or feat. And both of your weapons need to have the LIGHT property, so forget about using two longswords.
> It's not a very good implementation, in my opinion. I think it was done for balance, but it just makes two weapon fighting untenable.


Interesting, I’ll have to review the rules.  I’ve been using the Essentials set rules, perhaps it will be more clear in the DMG.  

I have been wrestling with how best to work with that augmentation.  Perhaps a better way is to give them an automatic retaliation against any players who attack.  So if the last guy is surrounded by three players who each get an attack, he gets to retaliate against each player, as they attack him, rather than getting simply his “turn”. 

Keep in mind, they don’t begin the fight with all of these advantages.  They gain them as the war band diminishes.  So only the last guy or two will have them all.  

The other thing is, these are a new “monster” class, not a player character.  As such, it seems the designers give them attributes as they see fit to make them unique and challenging, within reason.


----------



## Flying Crane (Dec 23, 2022)

Tony Dismukes said:


> I like your idea. After we get through the next dungeon crawl campaign, then it will probably be my turn to DM again and I have a home-brew campaign setting that I like to use. I might stick something like the huntsmen in there.


If you feel like using them I would be happy to email the word doc to you, you are welcome to use it either as-is, or use it as a starting point and modify as you see fit.  I just threw everything into them that I could think of, expecting to whittle it away as I get opportunities to workshop them and see how well they play.


----------



## Wing Woo Gar (Dec 23, 2022)

Flying Crane said:


> Had fun playing through the Lost Mines of Phandelver, the adventure that came with the  Basic set, and then Dragon of Icespire Peak, the adventure that came with the Essentials set, although that one was not as well written.  I wrote a ton of new material into the last section, to satisfy my sense of challenge to justify the advancement that was supposed to come after it.
> 
> I’m also working on developing a new villian, based on the Huntsmen of Annuvin, from Lloyd Alexander’s Prydain Chronicles, a Tolkien-ish adventure aimed at a younger audience, published in the 1960s and one of my personal favorites from my childhood.  Anyone else familiar with that?


Nice to see you return.


----------



## Wing Woo Gar (Dec 23, 2022)

Dirty Dog said:


> That module has been around since the days of AD&D. I think I have an original in a box somewhere. It's been adapted to the 5e rules, but the traps and such are pretty much unchanged.


You guys can order old judges guild modules such as The Dark Tower that have r3cently been reprinted in original1 st Ed. And 5 e conversions as well. Here is the best part, they even made figurines for all major nice and villains that are available. I bough5 the whole line and painted in secret before the campaign began. Then I was able to present actual proxies for even such sundries as the local ”merchant”. It was a delicious campaign as none of my very experienced group had ever played any judges guild materials. I was able to get hands on a complete judges guild campaign setting Briarwood city to place the Dark Tower module near.


----------



## Dirty Dog (Dec 23, 2022)

Flying Crane said:


> Interesting, I’ll have to review the rules.  I’ve been using the Essentials set rules, perhaps it will be more clear in the DMG.


It's not really clear in any sourcebook. It is, I think, one of the worst written bits of 5e rules. It takes a lot of pondering and reading, and even then you end up scratching your head and going "huh???" a lot.
The two-weapon rules also ignore your ability to block with those weapons.

Granted, two weapon fighting that allowed their defensive use as well as doubling the number of possible attacks would be somewhat unbalancing. But if you've ever fought someone who is using two weapons and is truly ambidextrous, it IS unbalancing.


Flying Crane said:


> I have been wrestling with how best to work with that augmentation.  Perhaps a better way is to give them an automatic retaliation against any players who attack.  So if the last guy is surrounded by three players who each get an attack, he gets to retaliate against each player, as they attack him, rather than getting simply his “turn”.


You could give them the Sentinel feat then. But reactions need to have limits too. You might also look at the Legendary Actions.


Flying Crane said:


> The other thing is, these are a new “monster” class, not a player character.  As such, it seems the designers give them attributes as they see fit to make them unique and challenging, within reason.


One of the things 5e does right, mostly, is that the rules apply to PCs, NPCs, and monsters. There are some exceptions, but those are being removed.


----------



## Wing Woo Gar (Dec 23, 2022)

Dirty Dog said:


> Dropping a weapon is a free action. Drawing/picking up a weapon is an object interaction.
> 
> That isn't how two weapon fighting works in 5e...
> Your character gets X attacks per round (determined by the books). Using a second weapon changes that to X+1 attacks, with the single extra attack being with the off-hand. That off-hand attack doesn't get your usual bonuses unless you have the Two weapon fighting style or feat. And both of your weapons need to have the LIGHT property, so forget about using two longswords.
> It's not a very good implementation, in my opinion. I think it was done for balance, but it just makes two weapon fighting untenable.


I’m only recently converted from 1st Ed to 5 th Ed having disdainfully dismissed all versions between with barely a notice. I have a lot to learn in 5 e.


----------



## Flying Crane (Dec 23, 2022)

Dirty Dog said:


> It's not really clear in any sourcebook. It is, I think, one of the worst written bits of 5e rules. It takes a lot of pondering and reading, and even then you end up scratching your head and going "huh???" a lot.
> The two-weapon rules also ignore your ability to block with those weapons.
> 
> Granted, two weapon fighting that allowed their defensive use as well as doubling the number of possible attacks would be somewhat unbalancing. But if you've ever fought someone who is using two weapons and is truly ambidextrous, it IS unbalancing.
> ...


I agree that adhering to the rules ought to be universal for the most part.  But I’m a new DM and not a professional game maker and this is a home-brew so I’m gonna muddle though as inspiration hits me. 😁

I want the two-weapon wielding to be overwhelming.  In the books, everyone runs when the Huntsmen show up because they scare the bejeezuz out of them.  I want to convey that same idea.  

And another augmentation I forgot to mention: they gain an armor class bonus as long as they are wielding dual weapons.  That kicks in after something like 50% or 75% of the war party has been killed, they don’t start with it.  I see it as a result of getting stronger and faster, they gain the strength of their fallen comrades.  

I give the standard huntsmen a short sword and hand axe for their melee weapons.  But I also include a Captain for each war band.  His strength is 18 and he stands about 6’8” - 7’ tall, and he wields a longsword and battle axe.  Or other weapons that do not have the “two-handed” or “heavy” designation.  He also gets 50% more HP than the rest of his band starts with, and he gets cantrip level spells and healing spells to boot.  

These guys are henchmen for a magic user of some sort.

So yeah, I’m breaking some rules but it is in the spirit of making for a terrifying experience.


----------



## Flying Crane (Dec 23, 2022)

Wing Woo Gar said:


> I’m only recently converted from 1st Ed to 5 th Ed having disdainfully dismissed all versions between with barely a notice. I have a lot to learn in 5 e.


One thing I find odd is that players can level-up for accomplishing tasks/mini-adventures within the larger adventure, instead of counting XP.  It isnt clear to me if this is intended to replace XP or if it is just an option.  You can still tally XP, the values are available.  But that was my big criticism about Dragon of Icespire Peak, often the tasks were short on challenge, and if you tally the XP, it just does not add up to justify the advancement in level.


----------



## Dirty Dog (Dec 23, 2022)

Wing Woo Gar said:


> I’m only recently converted from 1st Ed to 5 th Ed having disdainfully dismissed all versions between with barely a notice. I have a lot to learn in 5 e.


I wouldn't, at this point. OneD&D is in play testing, so you'd just be starting over again as soon as it's released.


Flying Crane said:


> I agree that adhering to the rules ought to be universal for the most part.  But I’m a new DM and not a professional game maker and this is a home-brew so I’m gonna muddle though as inspiration hits me. 😁


Rule zero, AKA The Rule of Cool says do whatever you want.


Flying Crane said:


> I want the two-weapon wielding to be overwhelming.


Then it'll be overwhelming when your players do the same thing... That's where things like this get sticky.


Flying Crane said:


> In the books, everyone runs when the Huntsmen show up because they scare the bejeezuz out of them.  I want to convey that same idea.


Easy enough to do. Assign them classes and subclasses and add a couple levels beyond the party. Battlemaster Fighters, Kensei Monks, things like that. 


Flying Crane said:


> And another augmentation I forgot to mention: they gain an armor class bonus as long as they are wielding dual weapons.  That kicks in after something like 50% or 75% of the war party has been killed, they don’t start with it.  I see it as a result of getting stronger and faster, they gain the strength of their fallen comrades.


There are Warlocks who can do that. And pretty much everybody multiclasses.


Flying Crane said:


> I give the standard huntsmen a short sword and hand axe for their melee weapons.  But I also include a Captain for each war band.  His strength is 18 and he stands about 6’8” - 7’ tall, and he wields a longsword and battle axe.  Or other weapons that do not have the “two-handed” or “heavy” designation.


RAW, that doesn't work. They specifically need the "light" property. But you can easily create a longsword clone and give it the light property. Just remember it'll still have that property when your players pick it up off the battlefield.


Flying Crane said:


> He also gets 50% more HP than the rest of his band starts with, and he gets cantrip level spells and healing spells to boot.


Cantrips from what class?
I'd suggest getting on something like D&DBeyond. Tinker. You can do what you're describing within the rules, and I think that when you can, it's better to do it that way than by fiat. But that's me.


Flying Crane said:


> One thing I find odd is that players can level-up for accomplishing tasks/mini-adventures within the larger adventure, instead of counting XP.  It isnt clear to me if this is intended to replace XP or if it is just an option.  You can still tally XP, the values are available.  But that was my big criticism about Dragon of Icespire Peak, often the tasks were short on challenge, and if you tally the XP, it just does not add up to justify the advancement in level.


The idea is to use one or the other, not both. If you've got a campaign all mapped out, including encounters and the BBEG, it's likely you already have in mind what levels the party should be for each story arc. So you level them that way. Sometimes that means going up a couple levels, or going up in the middle of an arc. This also completely divorces leveling from fighting.

Or you can add up EXP. The drawback to this is that they may or may not be the appropriate level for that CR17 BBEG encounter. Adjusting on the fly is fine, but better, I think, if it works out as planned. Ending with a TPK because they didn't do enough side stuff to get exp is a bummer.

Us old farts grew up counting EXP, but after a bit of exposure, I think the milestones method is actually better.


----------



## Monkey Turned Wolf (Dec 23, 2022)

I mentioned this a couple times, but finished making a martialtalk campaign. Have a busy January, so the end of january/beginning February I'll start it online. Going to send a poll to see who wants to join, and who's okay with the time (thinking Saturday nights). The campaign in question will be almost purely martial classes, to fight martialtalk.


----------



## Dirty Dog (Dec 23, 2022)

Monkey Turned Wolf said:


> I mentioned this a couple times, but finished making a martialtalk campaign. Have a busy January, so the end of january/beginning February I'll start it online. Going to send a poll to see who wants to join, and who's okay with the time (thinking Saturday nights). The campaign in question will be almost purely martial classes, to fight martialtalk.


Planning to play over Discord and/or Roll20 or some such?


----------



## Monkey Turned Wolf (Dec 23, 2022)

Dirty Dog said:


> Planning to play over Discord and/or Roll20 or some such?


Combo. Discord for voice chat, but roll20 to share maps. and Kanka.io to share any journals or adventures people make.


----------



## Monkey Turned Wolf (Dec 23, 2022)

I've also got a homebrew class that I finished making for a medic. In case anyone wants to play it for the purpose of healing, without relying on magic. It's a druid class but not d&d druid so much as Celtic druidry.


----------



## Flying Crane (Dec 23, 2022)

Dirty Dog said:


> Rule zero, AKA The Rule of Cool says do whatever you want.


Yup, and the DM is always right.  That what this how whole thing is based on.

What rule says that a troll gets to regenerate unless hit with fire or acid?  “The rule of the troll” that defines what a troll is.

In the same way, I am making a rule (for me, in my games) that defines what a huntsman is.  If my huntsmen have the desired effect on my players, and they enjoy the challenge, then I’ve done a good job of designing “the rule of the huntsmen”.  I recognize that my huntsmen is a work in progress.  But I have no qualms about giving him the features and abilities that I have done, as long as I find that it plays well, even if it clashes with a few of the formal rules.  I will never, at least as a DM, play in a big tournament or gen-con or whatever where I would need to have my home brew approved by some higher D&D authority.  I am playing with my family, and I doubt anybody but perhaps some friends of my son (currently age nine) and perhaps some of those parents will ever join our game.  So, as DM I make the final rules and my newly created monster will play as I deem fit within my games.



> Then it'll be overwhelming when your players do the same thing... That's where things like this get sticky.



But they don’t get to do the same thing.  The rule of the huntsmen gives them certain abilities.  The players are not huntsmen.  In the same way that Players do not get to decide that they regenerate unless hit by fire or acid, like a troll does.  Players are not trolls.


Dirty Dog said:


> Easy enough to do. Assign them classes and subclasses and add a couple levels beyond the party. Battlemaster Fighters, Kensei Monks, things like that.
> 
> There are Warlocks who can do that. And pretty much everybody multiclasses.



Sure, it’s a work in progress and so far I have been functioning with the rules from the Essentials set.  As I get into the more complete rules I may find a better way to structure the huntsmen.


Dirty Dog said:


> RAW, that doesn't work. They specifically need the "light" property. But you can easily create a longsword clone and give it the light property. Just remember it'll still have that property when your players pick it up off the battlefield.



except that It does work, because of the rule of the huntsmen.  It is in the definition of who and what they are.  I have written that ability into their stat bloc.


Dirty Dog said:


> Cantrips from what class?
> I'd suggest getting on something like D&DBeyond. Tinker. You can do what you're describing within the rules, and I think that when you can, it's better to do it that way than by fiat. But that's me.



Mostly wizard combat cantrips, and a couple of cleric healing spells.  Again, I’ve been working from the Essentials set rules, and I may find something better in the complete rule set.


Dirty Dog said:


> The idea is to use one or the other, not both. If you've got a campaign all mapped out, including encounters and the BBEG, it's likely you already have in mind what levels the party should be for each story arc. So you level them that way. Sometimes that means going up a couple levels, or going up in the middle of an arc. This also completely divorces leveling from fighting.
> 
> Or you can add up EXP. The drawback to this is that they may or may not be the appropriate level for that CR17 BBEG encounter. Adjusting on the fly is fine, but better, I think, if it works out as planned. Ending with a TPK because they didn't do enough side stuff to get exp is a bummer.
> 
> Us old farts grew up counting EXP, but after a bit of exposure, I think the milestones method is actually better.



Yeah, it’s a new approach for me and I am evaluating how I feel about it.  As that particular adventure was written, the challenge was poor compared to the level jump it was intended to justify.  It was simply weak, if XP were being counted, it wouldn’t justify the jump for a single player, never mind a team of five.


----------



## Flying Crane (Dec 24, 2022)

Monkey Turned Wolf said:


> I've also got a homebrew class that I finished making for a medic. In case anyone wants to play it for the purpose of healing, without relying on magic. It's a druid class but not d&d druid so much as Celtic druidry.


Would love to take a look at what you created.  Is it a complete stand-alone class that can advance up the levels, or more like a skillset that an existing class can take on?


----------



## Dirty Dog (Dec 24, 2022)

Monkey Turned Wolf said:


> Combo. Discord for voice chat, but roll20 to share maps. and Kanka.io to share any journals or adventures people make.


Well count me in.


Monkey Turned Wolf said:


> I've also got a homebrew class that I finished making for a medic. In case anyone wants to play it for the purpose of healing, without relying on magic. It's a druid class but not d&d druid so much as Celtic druidry.


So... the Healer feat?


> You are an able physician, allowing you to mend wounds quickly and get your allies back in the fight. You gain the following benefits:
> 
> 
> When you use a healer's kit to stabilize a dying creature, that creature also regains 1 hit point.
> As an action, you can spend one use of a healer's kit to tend to a creature and restore 1d6 + 4 hit points to it, plus additional hit points equal to the creature's maximum number of Hit Dice. The creature can't regain hit points from this feat again until it finishes a short or long rest.




If you're not using magic at all, I'd just drop the short rest requirement (the whole "X times per short rest" is one of the things going away with OneD&D).

Are you restricting the classes/races/sourcebooks used?


----------



## Flying Crane (Dec 24, 2022)

Dirty Dog said:


> Well count me in.
> 
> So... the Healer feat?
> 
> ...


Is the OneD&D an online/electronic format?  I’ve heard of it but don’t know how it will differ in actual rule sets from the 5e.  Personally, I don’t like the idea of playing in an online format if my players are sitting at the table with me.  I actually like holding my Character sheets in my hand, flipping the pages in the rule book to look up a spell or some rule application, and actually rolling the dice on the table.  I don’t like an app generating my roll values for me, and keeping track of my character info.  

Looks like I better start buying up the books before they become hard to get and expensive.


----------



## Dirty Dog (Dec 24, 2022)

Flying Crane said:


> Is the OneD&D an online/electronic format?


The playtest material is online, but it will be published in book form when it is officially released.


Flying Crane said:


> I’ve heard of it but don’t know how it will differ in actual rule sets from the 5e.


Well of course not. Unless you're part of the playtesting, you wouldn't.  


Flying Crane said:


> Personally, I don’t like the idea of playing in an online format if my players are sitting at the table with me.  I actually like holding my Character sheets in my hand, flipping the pages in the rule book to look up a spell or some rule application, and actually rolling the dice on the table.  I don’t like an app generating my roll values for me, and keeping track of my character info.


Online resources are wonderful.

Here's a link to a 6th level Circle of Dreams Druid I play.






						D&D Beyond Character Sheet
					

The World's most intelligent Dungeons and Dragons Character Sheet.




					ddb.ac
				




Want to check details on a spell? You can grab the PHB and flipping pages, only to find out that this spell is from one of the supplements, you can just click on the spell. Boom.

Character info? It's there, but you still change it yourself. The big difference is you won't wear out your Current HP by repeatedly erasing the field.

I prefer to roll my own dice. Because I just do. And so I generally do. But it's also nice to know that I could, if I wanted, join a game using nothing other than my iPhone.

And there's nothing better for beginners. Making a new character but some of the details are unfamiliar to you? No worries. The system will not allow you to break the rules.
[Edit to add]
The character I linked is a good example. Not sure how the Circle of Life healing bonus interacts with the Druids Goodberry spell? The system knows, and you will learn.

Don't have all the sourcebooks? Also no problem. D&DBeyond, at least, allows a player to share their online sourcebooks with everybody in their group. I have all the online resources (and most of them in paper as well). I created a campaign called "Marks Materials Management". I can send that link to people, they join, and they have access to all of those sourcebooks, same as if I handed them the book across the table.


Flying Crane said:


> Looks like I better start buying up the books before they become hard to get and expensive.


Not to worry. The availability of online sources will not affect paper publishing.

I use the online and PDF versions far more than the paper, but there's nothing stopping you from using a pencil. Or a quill and ink bottle, if that's how you roll.


----------



## Flying Crane (Dec 24, 2022)

Dirty Dog said:


> The playtest material is online, but it will be published in book form when it is officially released.
> 
> Well of course not. Unless you're part of the playtesting, you wouldn't.
> 
> ...


Good info, thanks.  And yeah, there are so many supplements now, it seems you never have it all.  I can see that as an issue.  

I just like books.  😁


----------



## Dirty Dog (Dec 24, 2022)

Flying Crane said:


> Good info, thanks.  And yeah, there are so many supplements now, it seems you never have it all.  I can see that as an issue.


Good reason for the shared sourcebooks option. 


Flying Crane said:


> I just like books.  😁


Me too. But digital books ARE books. I love that I have 700 books in my pocket.


----------



## Flying Crane (Dec 24, 2022)

Dirty Dog said:


> Good reason for the shared sourcebooks option.
> 
> Me too. But digital books ARE books. I love that I have 700 books in my pocket.


Truth!


----------



## Dirty Dog (Dec 24, 2022)

One caveat.

D&D Beyond is free to use, but with limited sources. Any sources you buy online, you have, of course.
The resource sharing requires one person to have a paid subscription. I do. So if this game materializes, I will be happy to provide sourcebook sharing.
I have all the sourcebooks online except Spelljammer and Theros.


----------



## Wing Woo Gar (Dec 24, 2022)

Monkey Turned Wolf said:


> I mentioned this a couple times, but finished making a martialtalk campaign. Have a busy January, so the end of january/beginning February I'll start it online. Going to send a poll to see who wants to join, and who's okay with the time (thinking Saturday nights). The campaign in question will be almost purely martial classes, to fight martialtalk.


But do I get to be a real troll? My special abilities would be taunting and regenerating with a new name each time I die.


----------



## Flying Crane (Dec 24, 2022)

Wing Woo Gar said:


> But do I get to be a real troll? My special abilities would be taunting and regenerating with a new name each time I die.


Well played sir.


----------



## Flying Crane (Dec 24, 2022)

Does anyone have experience with the Adventures in Middle-Earth RPG?  It takes place during the 60-year time period after the Battle of Five Armies and before Bilbo’s eleventy-first birthday.  Looks like it came out in 2016, they published two rule books and a dozen or so adventure books, each one taking place in a different region in ME.  Then they stopped publishing over some licensing issues, sold it to a different company who is now publishing it as a new edition called One Ring or something.  

Anyone know where this is headed?  I have a few questions:

How different is the new edition from the original?  
Are the old adventure books compatible with the new edition?  They have become expensive. 
Will the old adventure books be re-published for the new edition?
Are there plans for new adventures that weren’t part of the original?

Would love to get some info so I know where this is headed.


----------



## Rich Parsons (Dec 24, 2022)

Dirty Dog said:


> The playtest material is online, but it will be published in book form when it is officially released.
> 
> Well of course not. Unless you're part of the playtesting, you wouldn't.
> 
> ...





Flying Crane said:


> Good info, thanks.  And yeah, there are so many supplements now, it seems you never have it all.  I can see that as an issue.
> 
> I just like books.  😁



Before 5th was rolled out they play tested "Next" at Gen Con and Origins and other places. 
It was also rolled out online for some basic information . 

They have kept their online material for play testing - Unearthed Arcana - is the area they use for this material. 

I would like to play, only Work and other games would not allow for the time. So please enjoy and keep us posted.


----------



## MetalBoar (Dec 24, 2022)

Flying Crane said:


> Does anyone have experience with the Adventures in Middle-Earth RPG?  It takes place during the 60-year time period after the Battle of Five Armies and before Bilbo’s eleventy-first birthday.  Looks like it came out in 2016, they published two rule books and a dozen or so adventure books, each one taking place in a different region in ME.  Then they stopped publishing over some licensing issues, sold it to a different company who is now publishing it as a new edition called One Ring or something.
> 
> Anyone know where this is headed?  I have a few questions:
> 
> ...


The original version was The One Ring (first edition), which has its own ruleset that is very different than D&D, then they published Adventures in Middle-Earth RPG based on WOTC's OGL d20 rules to appeal to the people who are already familiar with D&D.  Then there were the licensing issues you spoke of and both died until Fria Ligan got the license to do a 2nd edition.  I've played the 1st edition of The One Ring and think it is by far the best of the various Tolkien inspired RPG's that I've tried, though some parts of the rules needed a little refinement, which I hope has happened with 2nd edition.

I've ordered the 2nd edition of The One Ring but haven't seen it yet.  I also haven't seen any version of Adventures in Middle-Earth.  In general, from what I've read in the reviews, and based on my experience with The One Ring, and being aware of my ignorance of how they implemented the d20 system in Adventures in Middle-Earth, I suspect that the original version does a better job of recreating a Middle Earth flavor than the D&D port.  I don't know what the 2nd edition of The One Ring is like at all, but I'm happy to let you know when I get it.

I've recently really gotten into Fria Ligan's 'Year Zero' game engine games (I've just started running a Forbidden Lands campaign), and I can say that the production value they put into the physical product is fantastic.  Great binding, high quality paper stock, beautiful art, just really nice books.  I expect that the same will be true for The One Ring.  I've also been pretty impressed with their game design skills.  I don't know how much they are just publishing someone else's work with The One Ring, and how much input they had on the changes for the new edition, but both their own games and the third party games they publish all seem to be pretty good.

Let me know if you've got any questions that I might be able to help with!

EDIT:  I should also let you know that if you buy the physical books through Fria Ligan directly you get the PDF's included for free.  I'm not sure that's true if you buy through Amazon or someone else.  I will also say that they are a tiny company and can be a little flakey on fulfilling electronic orders like the free PDF's but they are very nice and if you contact them through their forums they'll make things right.

Their forums are also worth mentioning, because the community and the game designers themselves seem to be pretty active in answering questions and replying to the threads.  You could probably get a lot of information about the game with just a post or two over there.


----------



## Wing Woo Gar (Dec 25, 2022)

Flying Crane said:


> Does anyone have experience with the Adventures in Middle-Earth RPG?  It takes place during the 60-year time period after the Battle of Five Armies and before Bilbo’s eleventy-first birthday.  Looks like it came out in 2016, they published two rule books and a dozen or so adventure books, each one taking place in a different region in ME.  Then they stopped publishing over some licensing issues, sold it to a different company who is now publishing it as a new edition called One Ring or something.
> 
> Anyone know where this is headed?  I have a few questions:
> 
> ...


Two of my trading brothers are very well acquainted. The saying is, “when the smoke clears, middle earth appears”.


----------



## Flying Crane (Dec 25, 2022)

MetalBoar said:


> The original version was The One Ring (first edition), which has its own ruleset that is very different than D&D, then they published Adventures in Middle-Earth RPG based on WOTC's OGL d20 rules to appeal to the people who are already familiar with D&D.  Then there were the licensing issues you spoke of and both died until Fria Ligan got the license to do a 2nd edition.  I've played the 1st edition of The One Ring and think it is by far the best of the various Tolkien inspired RPG's that I've tried, though some parts of the rules needed a little refinement, which I hope has happened with 2nd edition.
> 
> I've ordered the 2nd edition of The One Ring but haven't seen it yet.  I also haven't seen any version of Adventures in Middle-Earth.  In general, from what I've read in the reviews, and based on my experience with The One Ring, and being aware of my ignorance of how they implemented the d20 system in Adventures in Middle-Earth, I suspect that the original version does a better job of recreating a Middle Earth flavor than the D&D port.  I don't know what the 2nd edition of The One Ring is like at all, but I'm happy to let you know when I get it.
> 
> ...


I guess my biggest question is, would it be worth it to snatch up the rules books and adventure books for the older version, or are they going to be included in the new version?  Since the older version is no longer being published, the price is going up when you can find them.  If they were worth playing, might be a good idea to grab them while they are still sort of affordable and before they become crazy expensive and simply are lost?

But if they will be translated and re-published essentially in-tact with the new version, then buying those would be more economical.


----------



## MetalBoar (Dec 25, 2022)

Flying Crane said:


> I guess my biggest question is, would it be worth it to snatch up the rules books and adventure books for the older version, or are they going to be included in the new version?  Since the older version is no longer being published, the price is going up when you can find them.  If they were worth playing, might be a good idea to grab them while they are still sort of affordable and before they become crazy expensive and simply are lost?
> 
> But if they will be translated and re-published essentially in-tact with the new version, then buying those would be more economical.


That's a good question.  From what I can tell on the Free League forums and looking at the upcoming product discussions, it sounds like they're mostly or entirely focused on producing new content.  I'd guess that they won't be revisiting the old stuff, or if they do it will be fairly different.  So, there's a 2nd edition of The One Ring and there's a 5e D&D variant (The Lord of the Rings™ Roleplaying 5E), but they don't seem likely to re-publish the original materials. If you can find the old settings guides and supplements, and want them, I'd buy now because they're probably not coming back around. 

Again, I haven't seen the Adventures in Middle-Earth version of any of the supplements, but I've got more or less everything that was published for The One Ring and the material ranged from good to really good, maybe even really great.  I feel pretty confident that they'll be publishing more good stuff for the new version, so you'll still likely be able to get some quality Middle Earth based materials, but they'll be different than what was put out before.  Either way, you may want to get the core rule book (for whichever edition you choose) even if you intend to use the supplements with standard D&D because I believe that they really, intentionally, tuned things to be low magic and I expect it would be helpful to see what they did to make that function in a D&D framework.

If you can get a deal on The One Ring (either edition) version of the rules you might find them worth your while.  It's a different take on how an RPG should work.  With the first edition there are some parts I love, a few rough edges, and maybe a few things that I think are rough edges that would be great if I played it more and really figured them out.  Regardless, I think playing with other systems can open your mind to new ways to think about playing RPG's even if you stick with D&D.
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
*Related, but tangential topic:*

I feel like D&D is sort of the McDonalds (in both a good sense and a bad sense) of RPG's.  It's super popular, has a lot of players, you can buy the books anywhere, all the VTT's etc. support it, etc.  You know what you're going to get and it's probably never going to go out of business (though an edition change might leave you unsatisfied).  I currently own the 1st, 2nd, 3.5, and 5th edition of D&D and used to own the 3rd edition and the original Basic system too, so I'm not trying to drag it down.  It's a solid game that let's you create a lot of different stories. 

Its popularity also has a cost.  That predictability limits what they can do with the game.  You don't get the innovation that you do from smaller companies and you definitely don't get the same engagement with the community that you do from many of the indie developers.  You get the D&D model of classes and levels, *super powered* spell casters and super heroic characters in general.  If you want to GM a game where getting in fights has consequences and might get you killed for example, you can do that with D&D, but you're playing at cross purposes to the design and the system fights you.  It's simply a poor tool for some genre's and flavors.  It's great for what it does, but I only GM it when that's what I want to do.


----------



## Flying Crane (Dec 25, 2022)

MetalBoar said:


> That's a good question.  From what I can tell on the Free League forums and looking at the upcoming product discussions, it sounds like they're mostly or entirely focused on producing new content.  I'd guess that they won't be revisiting the old stuff, or if they do it will be fairly different.  So, there's a 2nd edition of The One Ring and there's a 5e D&D variant (The Lord of the Rings™ Roleplaying 5E), but they don't seem likely to re-publish the original materials. If you can find the old settings guides and supplements, and want them, I'd buy now because they're probably not coming back around.
> 
> Again, I haven't seen the Adventures in Middle-Earth version of any of the supplements, but I've got more or less everything that was published for The One Ring and the material ranged from good to really good, maybe even really great.  I feel pretty confident that they'll be publishing more good stuff for the new version, so you'll still likely be able to get some quality Middle Earth based materials, but they'll be different than what was put out before.  Either way, you may want to get the core rule book (for whichever edition you choose) even if you intend to use the supplements with standard D&D because I believe that they really, intentionally, tuned things to be low magic and I expect it would be helpful to see what they did to make that function in a D&D framework.
> 
> ...


Great info and insights.  Thank you.


----------



## donald1 (Dec 29, 2022)

Dnd looks so cool. I have a few books, but I never bother to read them. I don't know anyone that plays the game so knowing the dungeon master's guide and player's handbook don't have a lot of helpful information for me at the moment. Plus all the rules and stuff is extremely overwhelming to take in. 

Why buy them if you don't use them?

I dunno...  I like the artwork and I might read them one day. On the plus side, since I rarely open them, they're in really good condition.

I also own The wild beyond the witch light and the spell jammer books. The new races look really cool. I really like the baldurs gate references and the new slime race. I've never cared for elves much but the space elves look cool. My favorite race overall probably has to be the changelings. If I ever made a character I'd either go human or changeling.


----------



## Flying Crane (Dec 30, 2022)

donald1 said:


> Dnd looks so cool. I have a few books, but I never bother to read them. I don't know anyone that plays the game so knowing the dungeon master's guide and player's handbook don't have a lot of helpful information for me at the moment. Plus all the rules and stuff is extremely overwhelming to take in.
> 
> Why buy them if you don't use them?
> 
> ...


Well, if you aren’t actually playing, then I guess you are just collecting them.  

You need people to play with.  There may be local groups that you could get into and that would be a great way to start.  Then you can jump in as a player and learn how the game is played and how the flow and creativity work within its parameters, without the extra work of being the Dungeonmaster. 

If you have never played before and want to start your own group, I recommend you get the Starter Set.  It has a very abridged set of rules that make it much much easier to get going with it.  The truth is, the full rules are very complex and it can takes weeks to read through them, never mind actually getting comfortable with them.  If you start with the Starter Set, you can become comfortable with how the game is played and then when you begin using the complete set (Dungeonmaster’s Guide, Player’s Handbook, and Monster Manual), it will be much easier to add in the expanded rules.  The Starter Set comes with an adventure that you can play, and can get weeks or even months of play out of it, depending on how often you have sessions.  After you finish with that, I recommend the Essentials Kit before you go to the complete rules.  The Essentials has a bit more expansion in the rules than the Starter set but is still very abridged, and has another adventure that you could again play for months. I found that adventure to be not as well written as the one in the Starter Set, the challenges for the levels of play were rather weak.   But the beauty of D&D is the flexibility, you can really do whatever you want with it once you understand how it works.  I began writing all kinds of extra adventure and challenge into some of the segments of that story, to make it more interesting for my players.  

Even if you have played before, but never played the role of Dungeonmaster, I recommend you go this route.  The DM needs to have a stronger mastery of the rules than the players and needs to referee the game and acts as the primary storyteller.   It is a much more involved role to play.  So starting with the easier sets first is a good way to ease into it.


----------



## Flying Crane (Tuesday at 10:37 AM)

How is this for a new magical weapon?  I just came up with the idea.  Details are not yet solidified, but the concepts are there.

I was calling it a “grudge blade” but it could actually be any weapon.  It acts as a typical +1 magical weapon, until an enemy scores a successful attack against you and wounds you.  Then it becomes +3 or 4 on the hit and damage dealt, and delivers some additional amount of damage, like maybe an extra 2 or 3 die 8 or 12 of necrotic damage, maybe something else that is mean as well, poison or something.  

It is a weapon that requires attunement.  But it is jealous and resentful, so you must give up any other magical items you have that also require attunement.  It is the only one you can have. 

You must be free of other magical items that require attunement for at least 2 or 3 days before it will attune to you.  You must use it for some period of time (a couple days?) as a non-magical weapon before it will attune to you. 

Then, you belong to it.


----------



## Rich Parsons (Tuesday at 12:46 PM)

Flying Crane said:


> How is this for a new magical weapon?  I just came up with the idea.  Details are not yet solidified, but the concepts are there.
> 
> I was calling it a “grudge blade” but it could actually be any weapon.  It acts as a typical +1 magical weapon, until an enemy scores a successful attack against you and wounds you.  Then it becomes +3 or 4 on the hit and damage dealt, and delivers some additional amount of damage, like maybe an extra 2 or 3 die 8 or 12 of necrotic damage, maybe something else that is mean as well, poison or something.
> 
> ...


Make it a reaction, and if they hit they return the damage. 
Make it a minimum threshold to trigger such as 10 / 12/ 15 etc. 
The Reaction is provided free even if the character does not have a reaction (used in 5th or not the correct class in 2nd Pathfinder)


----------



## Flying Crane (Tuesday at 2:10 PM)

Rich Parsons said:


> Make it a reaction, and if they hit they return the damage.
> Make it a minimum threshold to trigger such as 10 / 12/ 15 etc.
> The Reaction is provided free even if the character does not have a reaction (used in 5th or not the correct class in 2nd Pathfinder)


Interesting idea, and I was mulling something similar over in my head.  

I’m also thinking that perhaps if you willingly discard the weapon, it puts a curse on you giving you some negative repercussions on your attack and damage rolls until you get cleaned with a remove curse spell.  It is a jealous and resentful weapon, after all.  But if you respect it, it will take care of you.  

How about this for extra damage:  if the extra damage roll that you deliver is above a certain amount, your enemy begins to strangle, and needs to do a save vs. strangulation to break out of that or suffer disadvantage on further attack and damage rolls in the combat, and can potentially die of suffocation. 

These are just sort of loose ideas at the moment.


----------



## Wing Woo Gar (Tuesday at 2:26 PM)

Flying Crane said:


> Interesting idea, and I was mulling something similar over in my head.
> 
> I’m also thinking that perhaps if you willingly discard the weapon, it puts a curse on you giving you some negative repercussions on your attack and damage rolls until you get cleaned with a remove curse spell.  It is a jealous and resentful weapon, after all.  But if you respect it, it will take care of you.
> 
> ...


Maybe you need to feed it or it feeds on you? Maybe it has a preferred diet. Maybe if it delivers a killing stroke, that victim cannot be raised. Maybe if the wielder is slain while attuned to it, they cannot be raised. This sounds like a weapon with a less than stellar personality, ala Blackrazor.


----------



## Flying Crane (Tuesday at 4:28 PM)

Wing Woo Gar said:


> Maybe you need to feed it or it feeds on you? Maybe it has a preferred diet. Maybe if it delivers a killing stroke, that victim cannot be raised. Maybe if the wielder is slain while attuned to it, they cannot be raised. This sounds like a weapon with a less than stellar personality, ala Blackrazor.


I’m actually considering re-naming it The Vengeful Spouse.  It would require attunement with the help of a cleric, and the sacrifice of a diamond set in a golden ring with a gp value of two month’s worth of your adventuring haul…


----------



## Wing Woo Gar (Tuesday at 9:53 PM)

Flying Crane said:


> How is this for a new magical weapon?  I just came up with the idea.  Details are not yet solidified, but the concepts are there.
> 
> I was calling it a “grudge blade” but it could actually be any weapon.  It acts as a typical +1 magical weapon, until an enemy scores a successful attack against you and wounds you.  Then it becomes +3 or 4 on the hit and damage dealt, and delivers some additional amount of damage, like maybe an extra 2 or 3 die 8 or 12 of necrotic damage, maybe something else that is mean as well, poison or something.
> 
> ...


I have a campaign where one of the worst villains is an intelligent red weapon named Blood Lotus. It can alter its appearance and weapon type to attune itself to a new owner. It slowly saps the constitution of the owner until they die, only to return as an undead type with half as many hit dice as the victim had levels.  under control of the weapon. The weapon will constantly try to get into the hands of ever more powerful owners, using telepathy and charm abilities to manipulate. It took the players quite a long time to realize that they weren’t looking for a “ person” that was causing all the trouble.


----------



## Flying Crane (Wednesday at 9:23 AM)

Wing Woo Gar said:


> I have a campaign where one of the worst villains is an intelligent red weapon named Blood Lotus. It can alter its appearance and weapon type to attune itself to a new owner. It slowly saps the constitution of the owner until they die, only to return as an undead type with half as many hit dice as the victim had levels.  under control of the weapon. The weapon will constantly try to get into the hands of ever more powerful owners, using telepathy and charm abilities to manipulate. It took the players quite a long time to realize that they weren’t looking for a “ person” that was causing all the trouble.


Is this a home brew you developed, or something published?  I haven’t contemplated anything nearly as conceptually complex as an over-arching story line as that.  Pretty sweet idea.  This is what I love about D&D: it is wide open to do what you want, as your imagination dictates.  Consistency in the rules is important for coherent game-play, but to a certain degree I look at certain rules as optional.  I play it as I see fit.

My concept for this weapon isn’t so much to make it evil, as to make it powerful but possessive.  It is jealous of other magical items and demands a certain level of commitment from its Character.  As long as the character is loyal to it, it will take care of the character.  But if the Character discards it or shows greater favor to other magical items, it will carry a grudge and there will be a price to be paid.

I’m also thinking this is not a weapon appropriate for a lower level player, because the adversaries they would face would be far outmatched by such a weapon.  But a character of eighth or tenth level would be facing more powerful adversaries and having such a weapon could be justified.  So I might insert it somewhere in a more advanced campaign.


----------



## Wing Woo Gar (Wednesday at 10:20 AM)

Flying Crane said:


> Is this a home brew you developed, or something published?  I haven’t contemplated anything nearly as conceptually complex as an over-arching story line as that.  Pretty sweet idea.  This is what I love about D&D: it is wide open to do what you want, as your imagination dictates.  Consistency in the rules is important for coherent game-play, but to a certain degree I look at certain rules as optional.  I play it as I see fit.
> 
> My concept for this weapon isn’t so much to make it evil, as to make it powerful but possessive.  It is jealous of other magical items and demands a certain level of commitment from its Character.  As long as the character is loyal to it, it will take care of the character.  But if the Character discards it or shows greater favor to other magical items, it will carry a grudge and there will be a price to be paid.
> 
> I’m also thinking this is not a weapon appropriate for a lower level player, because the adversaries they would face would be far outmatched by such a weapon.  But a character of eighth or tenth level would be facing more powerful adversaries and having such a weapon could be justified.  So I might insert it somewhere in a more advanced campaign.


Blood lotus is my creation. I have had it show up in different campaigns. No one has ever successfully destroyed it, but at least twice it was imprisoned or hidden in far flung place where no one would find it for a time…


----------



## Wing Woo Gar (Wednesday at 10:22 AM)

Flying Crane said:


> Is this a home brew you developed, or something published?  I haven’t contemplated anything nearly as conceptually complex as an over-arching story line as that.  Pretty sweet idea.  This is what I love about D&D: it is wide open to do what you want, as your imagination dictates.  Consistency in the rules is important for coherent game-play, but to a certain degree I look at certain rules as optional.  I play it as I see fit.
> 
> My concept for this weapon isn’t so much to make it evil, as to make it powerful but possessive.  It is jealous of other magical items and demands a certain level of commitment from its Character.  As long as the character is loyal to it, it will take care of the character.  But if the Character discards it or shows greater favor to other magical items, it will carry a grudge and there will be a price to be paid.
> 
> I’m also thinking this is not a weapon appropriate for a lower level player, because the adversaries they would face would be far outmatched by such a weapon.  But a character of eighth or tenth level would be facing more powerful adversaries and having such a weapon could be justified.  So I might insert it somewhere in a more advanced campaign.


I like that it comes with some negative effects. It doesn’t need to be evil. In fact, I think it could be even more difficult to deal with if it was neutral.


----------



## Wing Woo Gar (Wednesday at 10:48 AM)

Flying Crane said:


> Is this a home brew you developed, or something published?  I haven’t contemplated anything nearly as conceptually complex as an over-arching story line as that.  Pretty sweet idea.  This is what I love about D&D: it is wide open to do what you want, as your imagination dictates.  Consistency in the rules is important for coherent game-play, but to a certain degree I look at certain rules as optional.  I play it as I see fit.
> 
> My concept for this weapon isn’t so much to make it evil, as to make it powerful but possessive.  It is jealous of other magical items and demands a certain level of commitment from its Character.  As long as the character is loyal to it, it will take care of the character.  But if the Character discards it or shows greater favor to other magical items, it will carry a grudge and there will be a price to be paid.
> 
> I’m also thinking this is not a weapon appropriate for a lower level player, because the adversaries they would face would be far outmatched by such a weapon.  But a character of eighth or tenth level would be facing more powerful adversaries and having such a weapon could be justified.  So I might insert it somewhere in a more advanced campaign.


Does the weapon communicate? How? Empathy, telepathy, speech, vibrations? What is the range of communication? Is the weapon self determinate? Can it move itself around? How? “Dancing sword” teleportation? What is its motivation for doing whatever it does? In the case of Blood Lotus, it is actually a prison for a particularly awful entity”The Lord of Flayed Skins”. It seeks someone powerful enough to destroy the prison, in the mean time it feeds and grows. This is the real hook, either the wielder succumbs to the weapon, or it finds someone able to destroy the prison, which frees the entity on the prime material plane. Only a high priest or high ranking paladin can destroy it. They would then have set free a great evil, and require atonement from their god which would likely only be given after a successful quest to recapture or banish the entity from the prime. Feel free to use any part of this you like. Most often the Blood Lotus will appear to have the colors, symbols, or motifs of a good god or sect. If a priest wielding a mace finds it, it will appear to be a mace. In one case a Wizard found it, to him it appeared to be an ornate dagger with a reddish cast to the blade.


----------



## Flying Crane (Wednesday at 2:20 PM)

Wing Woo Gar said:


> Does the weapon communicate? How? Empathy, telepathy, speech, vibrations? What is the range of communication? Is the weapon self determinate? Can it move itself around? How? “Dancing sword” teleportation? What is its motivation for doing whatever it does? In the case of Blood Lotus, it is actually a prison for a particularly awful entity”The Lord of Flayed Skins”. It seeks someone powerful enough to destroy the prison, in the mean time it feeds and grows. This is the real hook, either the wielder succumbs to the weapon, or it finds someone able to destroy the prison, which frees the entity on the prime material plane. Only a high priest or high ranking paladin can destroy it. They would then have set free a great evil, and require atonement from their god which would likely only be given after a successful quest to recapture or banish the entity from the prime. Feel free to use any part of this you like. Most often the Blood Lotus will appear to have the colors, symbols, or motifs of a good god or sect. If a priest wielding a mace finds it, it will appear to be a mace. In one case a Wizard found it, to him it appeared to be an ornate dagger with a reddish cast to the blade.


I haven’t given it any of this kind of depth of thought.  Looks like I need to.  Initially I just thought it was kind of a funny concept:  the Grudgeblade, with which you can lay waste to all who have wronged you, slights both real and perceived, large and small.  I think it is growing beyond that.


----------



## Wing Woo Gar (Wednesday at 4:38 PM)

Flying Crane said:


> I haven’t given it any of this kind of depth of thought.  Looks like I need to.  Initially I just thought it was kind of a funny concept:  the Grudgeblade, with which you can lay waste to all who have wronged you, slights both real and perceived, large and small.  I think it is growing beyond that.


It’s a great idea. I’m just revealing myself for the nut I am.  I have spent too much time working on this stuff. For me to DM, the story has to make sense. I typically go too far in fleshing out story lines that the players might not even discover.


----------



## Flying Crane (Wednesday at 5:29 PM)

Wing Woo Gar said:


> It’s a great idea. I’m just revealing myself for the nut I am.  I have spent too much time working on this stuff. For me to DM, the story has to make sense. I typically go too far in fleshing out story lines that the players might not even discover.


Oh I hear ya.  I spent weeks writing extra material into the end of the Dragon of Icespire Peak because the challenge and adventure levels were weak as it was written. But I didn’t want to just add some random encounters with a few monsters.  Instead, I added additional storyline and did my best to make it coherent so there was a reason the extra monsters and extra conflict was there.  Gone are the days of just wandering from one cavern or room to another and having a random encounter behind each door.  Why are the monsters there in the first place?  What are their motives?


----------

