# The Anti-Canada movement...



## TheRustyOne (Sep 14, 2003)

My professor, Dr. Snyder, and his wife are part of an anti-canada movement that has some followers. Apparently, wonderful Canadia up there is allowing seal clubbing again...so, the uber-wacko conservationist/preservationists are revolting. (well, they always were revolting. lol.) Basically, if you participate in the movement, you don't buy anything made in Canada, or don't go to Canadia, and stop all relations with the country. But what if you won't buy things from China either, say, because of sweat shops and all that crud that's legal there. They're in a hole...


My question is, how do you all feel about this? Will Greenpeace strike again with the green spray paint and cause those cute seal pups to be walking dinner advertisements? Will this all blow over? I'm especially interested in the opinions of the Canadians I know are floating around the forum occasionally.

Personally, I say let them do what they will. If faux fur isn't good enough for the elitely rich, so be it. Canada is a nice country, and I won't let anyone else ruin it for me.


*gets Greenpeace spray* back beasts!


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## michaeledward (Sep 14, 2003)

You're professor is a dip-****. Drop the class.


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## Seig (Sep 14, 2003)

Personally, i find the whole situation amusing as hell.  Part of the issues at hand are the fact that Shepherd College prides itself on being a "liberal" college.  The powers that be constantly send out stuff to the faculty bragging about how liberal they are.  What the students don't see however is the stuff that they hit the facutly with when they are trying to gouge the students and faculty out of more money.  Do not be fooled, in my experience, most institutions of higher learing are more concerned with making money than they are with providing a quality higher education.  Rusty, one of these days, you and I are going to have a long talk about your political views.....


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## TheRustyOne (Sep 14, 2003)

> _Originally posted by michaeledward _
> *You're professor is a dip-****. Drop the class. *




Sadly, I can't. I need it for my major.


Seig, we're gonna end up with a lot of talks, huh? :lol:


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## MountainSage (Sep 14, 2003)

Having done the college thing, I can totally understand.  Professors are protected from the "real" world in the college system and don't get a taste of real life.  You must take the attitude that they have something you need, take the info you need, then get out as fast as possible.  If nothing else, the situation will teach tolerance of knucle draggers with PhD's.

Mountain Sage


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## TheRustyOne (Sep 14, 2003)

> _Originally posted by MountainSage _
> *If nothing else, the situation will teach tolerance of knucle draggers with PhD's.*




Yeah, that sounds like a few professors I've seen...


Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining. I just wanted ppls viewpoints on the situation. for once, i was trying to be intellectual.


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## MountainSage (Sep 14, 2003)

RustyOne,
You have an opportunity to see how cause thinking can make a person of even average intelligence appear to be a total idiot.  Observe and learn what not to be like as you move into life.  It is great to firmly believe in something, yet when the cause becomes the sole driving force in your life, a person loses perspective.

Mountain Sage


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## KenpoTess (Sep 14, 2003)

You will find as you go through life that people will always seek to embroil youth with their ideals. The young are  naive  in these Peoples minds and think they can be lured into 'causes', granted some are, and many so-called adults are also sucked into these. 
Hopefully parents and society have given our young people their own minds to allow them to think things through that  they are taught, eeking the nonsense from the necessary knowledge and then make their own decisions.

As in Kenpo,  teach the basics.. make sure a good foundation has been laid, then fly with the equation formula. 

 just my thoughts 

Tess


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## arnisador (Sep 14, 2003)

> _Originally posted by MountainSage _
> *Having done the college thing, I can totally understand.  Professors are protected from the "real" world in the college system and don't get a taste of real life.  *



People often say that, but in my experience it applies by discipline. Engineering, business, law, and medicine faculty rarely seem that way--probably no more than the rest of their professions (outside academe). In some of the humanities, though you see it more often--people who love to read, majored in literature, and now are paid to read and discuss books all day and become insular.

I can tell you that we get the usual tastes of the real world, by the way. Pre-tenure, the job is quite stressful as one's colleagues will eventually vote on whether one is to be retained or fired. There's lots of politics and competition for scarce resources. I saw a dept. chair ousted over the allocation of a single PC once.

It's not so much that profs. are protected from the real world as that we all have some off-the-wall ideas, but a college encourages one to share them to a much greater extent. That's great in the sciences, where the off-the-wall idea being shared might be that the speed of light is constant in a vacuum, and discussion of it could lead to a new physical theory, or in a math. dept., where it might be the idea that an element can be both partly in and partly not in a set (fuzzy sets/fuzzy logic). The payoff for this openness might be less in a philosophy dept.

*TheRustyOne*, is he asking you to join up with this movement in class? If so, it seems iffy, unless somehow it's relevant. I would allow for the possibility that he's trying to challenge his students to become active in the world in some way--to find some cause that stirs them--but he could just be pushing his own agenda. It is true that college professors are Democrats at a _much_ higher rate than the general population and tend to have rather liberal views. No one quite knows why--it never comes up in hiring. It must reflect the type of people who would choose to be college profs., much as "blue-collar" jobs are associated with Democrats and business jobs with Republicans.

I might add, though, that naming your prof. by name here seems a bit unprofessional--esp. since while doing so you haven't identified yourself by surname. Since the issue seems to be what's fair in political discourse, I would say that you have something to learn too!


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## arnisador (Sep 14, 2003)

Now let's talk about students.

When I was a student at a certain Ivy League college, a group of women held a topless demonstration to protest misogyny. They held it on the quad, but laid out ground rules: No photographs could be taken. Shockingly enough, students walked by and took pictures, as did a photographer for the student paper. The women were outraged that their rules for their demonstration weren't being followed! They complained in the student paper for weeks. Imagine--a bunch of college women stand around topless in the quad, and men actually take _pictures_! Unbeliveable.

As a student at another college I was asked to sign a petition for divestment from South Africa. This was the big cause in the early 80s. The third company listed on the placards was Coca-Cola. (Don't get ahead of me here.) Nearly a hundred students were out there on this hot early summer day protesting for divestment--that the college drop all stocks and cease business dealings with companies involved in South Africa. Most of these students were in line waiting to buy a drink because it was so hot. The line led to...a Coca Cola cart, where a man in a Coke hat was selling Coke products. Yes, they were buying from the same company that they were insisting the college stop doing business with. A good friend asked me to sign the petition. I said to him, Come on, you don't care about this!?! He said to me, Look, I'm trying to impress a girl here. I signed and moved on.


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## Ender (Sep 14, 2003)

> _Originally posted by MountainSage _
> *Having done the college thing, I can totally understand.  Professors are protected from the "real" world in the college system and don't get a taste of real life.  You must take the attitude that they have something you need, take the info you need, then get out as fast as possible.  If nothing else, the situation will teach tolerance of knucle draggers with PhD's.
> 
> Mountain Sage *



I agree to a large extent, many of these "instructors" are so insulated from the real world they lose any sort of navigational skills. The other part is they become so enamored with their own ideas and they become intolerant of conflicting ideas. Sure they pay lip service to "encouraging ideas", but the fact is they really don't. They want to show you how their thinking is the "correct" thinking.

My advice to Rustyone is: go to class, take notes, regurgitate the material back to him. Thats what most instructors want anyway, unless you are some some sort of art major.*L


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## Bob Hubbard (Sep 14, 2003)

I had an instructor once...
- he insisted that "BASIC" was the computer language of the future. (Not Visual Basic, just old 11 commands total plain BASIC).  
= That no one makes money writing computer games. (This was at the height of the PC game boom, when id founder John Romero paid cash for a Lambrigini and Richard Garrott walked away with 50 Million $ for Origin systems)
= That the idea of electronic communities were decades away. (Never mind I was running an old-style dialup BBS at the time, and either staff or member on over a dozen others..and the Internet was just starting to become known outside college circles)
= That programming required a room sized beast and a line editor. (When I had more robust development tools at home on my IBM PS-2 Model 30 486 system)

The sad part is he was the head of his department, and my advisor.   Needless to say, we didn't get along.

Regardless of the issue, research it in gread detail, then follow your head, heart and gut.   Most 'scholars' are very isolated and narrow viewed in my experience.


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## TheRustyOne (Sep 14, 2003)

> _Originally posted by arnisador _
> *
> 
> TheRustyOne, is he asking you to join up with this movement in class? If so, it seems iffy, unless somehow it's relevant. I would allow for the possibility that he's trying to challenge his students to become active in the world in some way--to find some cause that stirs them--but he could just be pushing his own agenda. It is true that college professors are Democrats at a much higher rate than the general population and tend to have rather liberal views. No one quite knows why--it never comes up in hiring. It must reflect the type of people who would choose to be college profs., much as "blue-collar" jobs are associated with Democrats and business jobs with Republicans.
> ...




No, Sir, he is not asking us to join. I overreacted, I guess. I'm not as 'intellectual' as I think, and quite foolish as some can attest.

As for identifying, my professor, I appologize. I didn't realize I'd come off as unprofessional. I do have a lot to learn.


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## Cryozombie (Sep 14, 2003)

I'd club a seal and wear its skin.  Come tell your professor to argue the point with me... 

As a side note on the subject, It amazes me how many people think that Education =  Intelligence.  More often than not all it becomes is "justification" to try and force people to bow to their opinion.  ("I have a PHD so Everything I believe is right, I WENT TO SCHOOL")


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## arnisador (Sep 14, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Technopunk _
> *("I have a PHD so Everything I believe is right, I WENT TO SCHOOL") *



Dilbert has a character like that and I know the type. It isn't the Ph.D. itself that does this to them though. Remember, these are the people who were at the top of the class, busting grading curves, winning academic awards, etc., all through their lives. They've been told since grade school that they're smarter than everyone else, and now they believe it. Society is to blame! 

*TheRustyOne*, your reaction was your reaction and that's fine! Maybe he was being a jerk and maybe he wasn't--I certainly don't know. I'm just trying to give you some of the perspective from the other side.


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## Dennis_Mahon (Sep 14, 2003)

> _As a side note on the subject, It amazes me how many people think that Education = Intelligence. More often than not all it becomes is "justification" to try and force people to bow to their opinion. ("I have a PHD so Everything I believe is right, I WENT TO SCHOOL")_



I forget the original source, but....

"There is no idea so ridiculous that it has not been embraced wholeheartedly by someone in academia."


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## KenpoGirl (Sep 14, 2003)

Well speaking from the Great White North, EH, I haven't heard anything recently about starting the Seal Harvest again.

BUT that being said....... Coming from a long line of Newfoundlanders.  It's about time.

I see no problem with starting the harvest again as long as they control the amount of seals harvested.  Perhaps if they keep a better control of the seal population they may one day remove the Moratorium on the Cod Fisheries, as it is the seals that a the major consumer of Cod.

Hmmmm I wonder if you too that professor out if his comfy tweed jackets and stuck him on the coast where Seal would be a major staple of life, how long would it take him to start hunting everything any anything to survive.

Funny how there's such an outpouring of sympathy to a baby seal pup because it's "Oooooh So Cute" don't see that much outpouring when they butcher baby calves or piglets or any other baby animal because its tender.

You wont find me very sympathetic to those from Green Peace or the like on this subject.  When its a matter of food and survival there's no contest.  If it's a matter of sport or the like, such as hunting wild cats for a trophy I back them all the way.  

Dot
:asian:


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## Bawb (Sep 14, 2003)

Where should I start?

Hmmm lets see, why do most people back-packing across Europe wear Canadian flags on their clothes?  Why is it that Canada is usally one of the largest contingents of force that is sent by the UN in peacekeeping missions?  Per population why does Canada have less homicides that the US?

Why, because Canada is one of the greatest countries in the world in which to live.

To any American with Anti-Canadian sentiments, all I can say is get a life.  The US does not rule the world as much as yoour space cadet president thinks it does.  Too many of any animal throws off the balance of nature, and when that happens man occasionally has to step in with a cull.

I had to edit myself several times because of the initial statement of this thread.  What a crock!  I hope the professor joins us in the real world sometime.
:soapbox: 

And yes I am Canadian.


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## Cryozombie (Sep 14, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Bawb _
> *
> Why, because Canada is one of the greatest countries in the world in which to live.
> 
> *



If you like Tookes and Back Bacon.  And Molson.

:rofl: 

Canada is a really nice place to visit.  I cant say I'd wanna live there, but I do agree with you Bawb, the whole "Anti Canada" thing is pretty assinine.  Especially over their "Resource Management" as if the U.S. is any better. 

But then again, my motto has always been *Club Seals, Not Sandwiches!*


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## MountainSage (Sep 14, 2003)

Dot, the beef industry has had a lashing over veal and the pig industry has never really slaughtered stock that young.  Seals are an easy target, IMHO, because 99% of society hasn't been involved in the process.  Most people eat beef and pig, wear leather etc, while most haven't worn or eaten seal.  There is no emotional disconnect with seals like beef and pig.

Mountain Sage


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## TheRustyOne (Sep 14, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Technopunk _
> *But then again, my motto has always been Club Seals, Not Sandwiches! *




OMG! that's a good motto, if you don't like club sandwiches -- which I do.


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## Cryozombie (Sep 14, 2003)

I dont mind Club Sandwiches, but given the choice, a little sensless violence goes a long way...


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## Cruentus (Sep 15, 2003)

What is the real problem that these protestors have? What is their arguement? Are seals on the verge of becoming extinct? Could they be if they legalize seal clubing?

I really don't know the issue. I do know that Native American people do hunt and use seals for food and their coats. I see nothing wrong with this. This is a way for them to survive. But what about the rest??? :idunno: 

I know that an "Anti-Canadian" movement seems dumb to me. The U.S. does more damage to the environment then Canada, yet this doesn't justify an "anti-American" movement. You protest the "law" or the actions, not the country itself!

However, does anyone here think that Seal clubbing shoud be illegal? I'd like to hear the arguements behind why, because I honestly don't know much on the subject.


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## arnisador (Sep 15, 2003)

Club away. I wouldn't enjoy watching it, but the same is true of the process by which cows become steak.


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## Elfan (Sep 15, 2003)

Do they eat the seals?


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## Bob Hubbard (Sep 15, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Elfan _
> *Do they eat the seals? *



Nope.


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## Bob Hubbard (Sep 15, 2003)

I see nothing wrong with hunting for food or clothing.

I do see something wrong with hunting for sport or to make some rich yippie a fashion plate.

If there was a way to use the meat to feed the hungry, then sure...but most food kitchens are legaly prevented from accepting it.  So it rots.

To me, thats just wrong...but then again, every day we bury tons of meat and think nothing of it.

I mean, the seals and deer can't fight back...make it a real sport.

Hunt martialartists.  

on PPV.

We could raise alot of cash. 

:rofl:


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## Cruentus (Sep 15, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Elfan _
> *Do they eat the seals? *



Who is they?


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## Elfan (Sep 15, 2003)

> _Originally posted by PAUL _
> *Who is they? *



The people clubbing them.


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## Cruentus (Sep 15, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Elfan _
> *The people clubbing them. *



If "they" are natives who use the seal as a source of food/warmth then I see nothing wrong with it. I have a major problem with it if they are being commercially hunted or harvested by large #'s just for their hides.


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## arnisador (Sep 15, 2003)

> _Originally posted by PAUL _
> *If "they" are natives who use the seal as a source of food/warmth then I see nothing wrong with it. I have a major problem with it if they are being commercially hunted or harvested by large #'s just for their hides. *



I think this is so and I agree with Kaith that wasting food like that is simply wrong.

But I also agree withg those who say there are other animals we use for similar purposes.


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## Seig (Sep 16, 2003)

> _Originally posted by TheRustyOne _
> *Sadly, I can't. I need it for my major.
> 
> 
> Seig, we're gonna end up with a lot of talks, huh? :lol: *


Probably


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## Seig (Sep 16, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz _
> *I
> I mean, the seals and deer can't fight back...make it a real sport.
> 
> *


I have seen deer/elk gore and stomp the hell out of people.  They can and do fight back, unless you is sneakier than they is.


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## KenpoGirl (Sep 16, 2003)

k guys I did a search for some information.  Seems the main resource for seals are the fir and the oil from the blubber.  But the meat is also used, manyly by Newfoundlanders, I myself have had "Flipper Pie" and it wasn't bad.  

Here's a link that seems to have a lot of information for anyone that's interested.

Newfoundland Seal Hunt 

You can make your own decissions, btw I learned that cod is NOT the main food source for seals, so I was wrong in that fact.

Dot
:asian:


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## Cruentus (Sep 16, 2003)

> _Originally posted by arnisador _
> *I think this is so and I agree with Kaith that wasting food like that is simply wrong.
> 
> But I also agree withg those who say there are other animals we use for similar purposes. *



This is true; I also disagree with not using the whole animal in any circumstance. If we are going to kill a living thing, we should utilize as much of the resource as we can. To not do this is disrespectful to life, in my opinion. I know that slaughter houses don't always use the whole animal; but @ least w/ chickens, pigs, and cattle, we are able to use as much of the animal as possible.

But to harvest something like mink or seal just for it's hide, I think is wasteful and disrespectful to life. I find danger in commercially hunting an animal just for it's skin also because it could someday jeprodize the species (extinction).

I don't know much about the whole seal hunting business, though, so I will read kenpoGirl's link and see what I can learn.


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## MountainSage (Sep 16, 2003)

I agree with the group, use all or most of the animal if your going to kill it.  The pork industry has a say, " We use everything but the oink and were looking for a use for that."

Mountain Sage


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## Cruentus (Sep 16, 2003)

> _Originally posted by MountainSage _
> *I agree with the group, use all or most of the animal if your going to kill it.  The pork industry has a say, " We use everything but the oink and were looking for a use for that."
> 
> Mountain Sage *



I like that saying!


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