# Daughter murdered for embracing the west



## billc (Apr 9, 2011)

this article from bigpeace.com discusses the murder of girl by her muslim father because she desired to live like a westerner.

http://bigpeace.com/elcid/2011/04/0...o-uphold-family-honor-buries-her-in-backyard/

****DISCLAIMER****

I DO NOT THINK THAT ALL MUSLIMS WILL MURDER THEIR DAUGHTERS BECAUSE SAID DAUGHTER WANTS TO LIVE THE WESTERN LIFESTYLE.  

****END DISCLAIMER****

There is little background given about the father, but the annoying part of the video comes around 1:38 when the idiot reporter says that the murder is a "tragedy" not only for the girl but for her father.  The reporter is an idiot.

What are the statistics on this type of crime in Europe.


----------



## Sukerkin (Apr 9, 2011)

Yet another fine example of why we should stop worrying about multi-culturalisms effects on our countries ... clearly we're just over-reacting and racist and bigoted ... surely there is nothing to fear if our laws and our culture is strong enough?

Tell that to that poor lass murdered by her own father.

The cumulative effects of each incident like this, perpetrated by those clinging with insane 'faith' to a ludicrous dogma, just make the road, leading to greater violence between nations and factions within nations, slippier and slippier.

I used to be all for integration and amalgamation of cultures and creeds.  Mongrels are the strongest of animals after all and mixing together multiple peoples is what made Britain Great.  Now I am more and more of a mindset I used to criticise and ridicule not all that many years ago.


----------



## K-man (Apr 10, 2011)

The video says 5000 women are murdered, 'honour killing', each year.

Before I was howled down in a previous thread I was trying to point out that integration of Muslims into Western society seems not to be working well in Western countries.   :asian:


----------



## billc (Apr 10, 2011)

Whatever would make you think that K-man?


----------



## Blade96 (Apr 10, 2011)

honor killings are evil. I agree.


----------



## K-man (Apr 10, 2011)

billcihak said:


> Whatever would make you think that K-man?


 Don't know really.  Let's just call it a hunch.


----------



## Twin Fist (Apr 10, 2011)

and this is why i dont trust muslims. Any of them. If this can happen, IN AMERICA, and it does, every year, if they can take thier religion THAT seriously, that killing thier own CHILD is ok because the book says so?

then killing an infidel? wouldnt even give them pause.


----------



## Blade96 (Apr 10, 2011)

i don't distrust all of them. Obviously, not all of them believe in that and are going to kill their daughters.


----------



## Bill Mattocks (Apr 10, 2011)

K-man said:


> The video says 5000 women are murdered, 'honour killing', each year.



Out of 1.2 billion Muslims worldwide.



> Before I was howled down in a previous thread I was trying to point out that integration of Muslims into Western society seems not to be working well in Western countries.   :asian:



Because we're beset with honor killings in the USA and other Western countries?  Please show how this has become the norm.

If you can't, it would seem to me that integration *is* working well.  In the individual cases where it isn't, horrific cases like this are prosecuted, showing that Western values and laws prevail, regardless of the mores and religious opinions of those who have emigrated to such countries.

You see what you wish to see.


----------



## Bill Mattocks (Apr 10, 2011)

Twin Fist said:


> and this is why i dont trust muslims. Any of them. If this can happen, IN AMERICA, and it does, every year, if they can take thier religion THAT seriously, that killing thier own CHILD is ok because the book says so?



How many times does it happen in the USA every year?  Numbers, please.  How many Muslims in the USA?



> then killing an infidel? wouldnt even give them pause.



Who is them?  Please be specific.


----------



## Twin Fist (Apr 10, 2011)

Bill, dont be obtuse, we all know where you stand, and I am sorry, while you are correct (it is a tiny number out of ALL the muslims in the us, i freely admit that) i dont care.

Let me say that again

I Do Not Care.

This sort of behavior is getting more and more common, it is accepted in the muslim community, and they are trying to get sharia law accepted by american courts.

i can connect the dots even if others refuse to.


----------



## marlon (Apr 10, 2011)

My biggest problem is that the religious leaders are not denouncing it.  nor does it seem the 'faithful'in general are doing so. Even when the Catholic church did not openly denounce their preists the faithful did.  this is the concern for me above and beyond the personal tragedies of these young womens lives


----------



## K-man (Apr 10, 2011)

Bill Mattocks said:


> Out of 1.2 billion Muslims worldwide.
> 
> Because we're beset with honor killings in the USA and other Western countries? Please show how this has become the norm.
> 
> ...


And you get on your soapbox and continue to rant. Whether it's one or whether it's five thousand makes no difference. One is one too many. :shrug:
Honour killings are just part of the whole picture. The threat of violence prevents young people from leaving the Muslim faith. If Muslims wish to live in Western countries they should want to be part of that community. If they want to integrate into the secular community or even a Christian or other religious environment, IMHO that should be a basic human right.

http://www.examiner.com/progressive...vs-western-culture-muslims-and-honor-killings



> Because we're beset with honor killings in the USA and other Western countries? Please show how this has become the norm.
> 
> 
> If you can't, it would seem to me that integration *is* working well.


You have no evidence to support that opinion. Just because thare are not more killings doesn't mean 'integration is working well'. 

Just give me *ONE* example where Muslims are integrating seamlessly into Western society. 



> You see what you wish to see.


How true! :asian:


----------



## Bill Mattocks (Apr 10, 2011)

Twin Fist said:


> Bill, dont be obtuse, we all know where you stand, and I am sorry, while you are correct (it is a tiny number out of ALL the muslims in the us, i freely admit that) i dont care.
> 
> Let me say that again
> 
> ...



That makes no sense.  You admit I am correct - the percentages are minute.  Then you say you can 'connect the dots' by which you mean that despite the fact that it's not all Muslims...yes, it actually is.

Can't be both.

I get that you don't care.  But I think your 'connecting the dots' has a different meaning than you think it does.  I care about that.  Even if you don't.


----------



## Bill Mattocks (Apr 10, 2011)

marlon said:


> My biggest problem is that the religious leaders are not denouncing it.  nor does it seem the 'faithful'in general are doing so. Even when the Catholic church did not openly denounce their preists the faithful did.  this is the concern for me above and beyond the personal tragedies of these young womens lives



How do you know who is denouncing and who is not?  Do you live in Italy?  Do you live in the Middle East?  Do you listen to the sermons by the Mullahs and other Islamic leaders?

What you know is what you read.

Just like the people in the Middle East who think we all hate them.  Because it's what they read.

Your 'problem' does not exist.


----------



## Bill Mattocks (Apr 10, 2011)

K-man said:


> And you get on your soapbox and continue to rant. Whether it's one or whether it's five thousand makes no difference. One is one too many. :shrug:
> Honour killings are just part of the whole picture. The threat of violence prevents young people from leaving the Muslim faith. If Muslims wish to live in Western countries they should want to be part of that community. If they want to integrate into the secular community or even a Christian or other religious environment, IMHO that should be a basic human right.
> 
> http://www.examiner.com/progressive...vs-western-culture-muslims-and-honor-killings
> ...



More Martial Arts instructors sexually assault children than Muslims who commit 'honor killings'.  By far.  And there are more Muslims in the USA than Martial Arts instructors.

Now tell me about those numbers and what they mean.  If you can draw conclusions about Muslims from the 6 reported honor killings in the USA, then you can draw conclusions about Martial Arts instructors.

Go on.  I'm waiting.


----------



## Sukerkin (Apr 10, 2011)

Goading each other does not help matters, good people.

I happen to think that Bill's stance on personal freedoms and personal responsibility is generally a very good one but I do feel that sometimes there is a need to very publically draw a line and say "No further than this".  That's what a society is at the end of the day, a set of mutually accepted rules.

My opinion is that these rules should not be predicated on fantasy literature written to underpin the wishes of an elite ruling class, which is what the 'great' religious books are in my view.  Some people think differently on that of course and sometimes religious rules are also rational ones but I would hope that most would agree that laws should be rational and benefit the cohesiveness and functioning of the society they are written for.


----------



## Touch Of Death (Apr 10, 2011)

Don't you just love the us against them mentality?


----------



## Blade96 (Apr 10, 2011)

Suppose there's a nice Muslim on this forum right now who doesnt do or believe in any of these nasty things. How do you suppose they'd like to read this? People who say they hate him or don't trust her because she's Muslim?


----------



## Touch Of Death (Apr 10, 2011)

Blade96 said:


> Suppose there's a nice Muslim on this forum right now who doesnt do or believe in any of these nasty things. How do you suppose they'd like to read this? People who say they hate him or don't trust her because she's Muslim?


I keep wanting to ask that same thing.
sean


----------



## Sukerkin (Apr 10, 2011)

I'd imagine they'd feel pretty hard-done-by, Blade.  

Pretty helpless to fix things too I would imagine as they have little power to gainsay the extremists who have hi-jacked a fundamentally 'true' (as in based on their scriptures) interpretation of their religion and turned it into something foul.

I can envisage an early medieval analogue of someone like Bill, who I believe to have a very genuine sense of morality, being caught in the same sort of cleft stick when the Church was running about slaughtering in the name of God (aka plunder and prestige).


----------



## CanuckMA (Apr 10, 2011)

Honour killing is not a Muslim thing. It's cultural. Hindus do it as well. Most cultures have done it.


----------



## Twin Fist (Apr 10, 2011)

Bill Mattocks said:


> That makes no sense.  You admit I am correct - the percentages are minute.  Then you say you can 'connect the dots' by which you mean that despite the fact that it's not all Muslims...yes, it actually is.
> 
> Can't be both.
> 
> I get that you don't care.  But I think your 'connecting the dots' has a different meaning than you think it does.  I care about that.  Even if you don't.




Bill,
the chances of getting bit by a shark are minute too. But I dont swim in waters I know have a local population of dangerous species.

the dots?

more and more muslims

muslims are by and large NOT assimilating

muslims are ok with honor killings

muslims are trying to get sharia law recognized by american courts

once it is, muslim men can freely rape and kill, and claim that the victim was asking for it by dressing in an un-muslim way

dont think it could happen? it already is, in france and england and other european countries

The only ones that dont see this comming either dont want to see it or are totally un-educated on recent european history


----------



## Twin Fist (Apr 10, 2011)

CanuckMA said:


> Honour killing is not a Muslim thing. It's cultural. Hindus do it as well. Most cultures have done it.





and the "moral relativism" card comes into play


you cannot justify bad behavior by pointing out other bad behavior,a nd yes, it IS a muslim thing


----------



## marlon (Apr 10, 2011)

Bill Mattocks said:


> How do you know who is denouncing and who is not? Do you live in Italy? Do you live in the Middle East? Do you listen to the sermons by the Mullahs and other Islamic leaders?
> 
> What you know is what you read.
> 
> ...


 

I read as much as I can in these cases.  Just as I had a problem with the relative silence of the Catholics and their clergy the same goes in this case.  there should be a lot of noise against this stuff. Just as there should be a lot of noise against pedophiles and abusive spouses and instructors taking advantage of students.  Thisis not about who did it.  It is about the act and that somewhere it is considered acceptable by a large group of people.  I don't think except for the pertatrators themselves there is anyone who finds that martial arts instructors sexually abusing their students acceptable...


----------



## Blade96 (Apr 10, 2011)

Sukerkin said:


> I'd imagine they'd feel pretty hard-done-by, Blade.
> 
> Pretty helpless to fix things too I would imagine as they have little power to gainsay the extremists who have hi-jacked a fundamentally 'true' (as in based on their scriptures) interpretation of their religion and turned it into something foul.
> 
> I can envisage an early medieval analogue of someone like Bill, who I believe to have a very genuine sense of morality, being caught in the same sort of cleft stick when the Church was running about slaughtering in the name of God (aka plunder and prestige).



Yeah. Poor Bill M. He's a Catholic. I know he don't agree with everything the church and pope says and does. And he's a good person.  And if people said 'I don't trust catholics, any of em!' because of the sexism and pedophiles and killing and all, I imagine he'd feel pretty crappy.


----------



## Twin Fist (Apr 10, 2011)

and he could leave the faith if the faith supports such actions

and islam DOES. They just released a report talking about how, in detail, a man could 'take his pleasure" with a boy and it NOT be a sin....

seriously

the whole kit and kaboodle needs to be erased from the earth


----------



## marlon (Apr 10, 2011)

Bill, I had no idea you are Catholic.  I just picked that randomly becausee it is a Christian issue as apposed to a Muslim issue.  I have a greatr deal of respect for other people's religions and culture but not above and beyond my belief that life is sacred.  No hidden attack intended

Respectfully,
Marlon


----------



## Sukerkin (Apr 10, 2011)

I understand the root of your emotions, John but, as ever with such things, we must take care not to become worse than what we hate in our reactions.  

Not allowing such things as 'honour killings' (tho' it makes me spit to use the word Honour in such a context) to take root in our societies is one thing, as is strongly rebuffing any claims to legitimacy on the world stage that factional extremists may claim.  But wishing to ignite a religious based war in this day and age is a very dangerous path to set your feet upon.


----------



## Twin Fist (Apr 10, 2011)

Mark
Islam is a cult of death founded by a child molesting warlord that preached conversion by force, and his church is turning out fanatics trying to force a 6th century world on us BY FORCE, in numbers that should scare any thinking person.

I know exactly what I am saying, and let me say it again

I do not believe that Islam is compatible with life in the modern world.


----------



## Blade96 (Apr 10, 2011)

I had a good friend who died of cancer when we were both 15. His parents were jehovah witnesses who let him die cause they refused to try the blood transfusion to save him. But i don't believe every jehovah witness is gonna let their children die even though the religion might say getting blood is bad i don;t believe all of em believe it. I can't stand what that religion says. But i don't believe that they all can't be trusted.  Same with muslims.


----------



## marlon (Apr 10, 2011)

Twin Fist said:


> and he could leave the faith if the faith supports such actions
> 
> and islam DOES. They just released a report talking about how, in detail, a man could 'take his pleasure" with a boy and it NOT be a sin....
> 
> ...


 
Investigate sources, please.  That is complete crap and is no way shape or form part of Islam.Please remember the scary Christian sects that have existed over time even in our society.


----------



## Sukerkin (Apr 10, 2011)

Twin Fist said:


> Mark
> 
> I do not believe that Islam is compatible with life in the modern world.



In terms of the radical elements that have seized power in certain states and maintain it through intimidation and violence, I don't disagree.

I feel much the same about any religious based power structure, though the Christian one is 'native' to me and thus more easily understood and, to be honest, is less likely these days to kill and torture people just for not believing.

Where the 'Gordian knot' lies is that exhorting the removal by force of arms those centres of the twisted radicalism of the islamic faith brings into play all those hundreds of millions of people born into a Islamic tradition.  

To illustrate what I mean, I am by no means one to stand on the side of the Catholic Church, for example.  But if an Islamic sect were to murder the Pope or nuke the Vatican City State, then I, even tho' I am Atheist, would be outraged and would not vote against a counter-attack.  I am sure that many of the Muslim faothful throughout the globe would feel the same way should some similar thing befall an Islamic state somewhere in the world.

That way lies World War Three and a fall back into barbarism for us all {things already hanging by a thread as they are}.


----------



## Bill Mattocks (Apr 10, 2011)

Twin Fist said:


> Bill,
> the chances of getting bit by a shark are minute too. But I dont swim in waters I know have a local population of dangerous species.
> 
> the dots?
> ...



OK so far...



> muslims are by and large NOT assimilating



A) I disagree.  B) I've pointed out many instances of cultures inside the USA that do not assimilate, and we don't have a problem with them any more than they have a problem with us (such as Amish).  So it's apparently not 'assimilation' that is the problem.



> muslims are ok with honor killings



That's a lie.  You know it's a lie.   In the USA, it amounts to 6 known honor killings out of a population that is - at a minimum - over a million.  How does that equate with Muslims being OK with honor killings?



> muslims are trying to get sharia law recognized by american courts



Also a lie.  Some few Muslims have put forward the notion that they would prefer Sharia Law over the Constitution; obviously they can't do that.  Some few others have tried to get civil courts to recognize Sharia Law as binding in civil contracts in which both parties have agreed to abide by the principles; just as the courts now recognize Jewish Law and Catholic Canon Law.  There is no difference at all. 



> once it is, muslim men can freely rape and kill, and claim that the victim was asking for it by dressing in an un-muslim way



Oh, please.



> dont think it could happen? it already is, in france and england and other european countries



No, it isn't.



> The only ones that dont see this comming either dont want to see it or are totally un-educated on recent european history



I'll put some faith in both my education, my knowledge of history, and my own native intellect.  Hasn't steered me wrong so far.


----------



## granfire (Apr 10, 2011)

Bill Mattocks said:


> OK so far...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Bless you for trying!


----------



## Bill Mattocks (Apr 10, 2011)

marlon said:


> I read as much as I can in these cases.  Just as I had a problem with the relative silence of the Catholics and their clergy the same goes in this case.  there should be a lot of noise against this stuff. Just as there should be a lot of noise against pedophiles and abusive spouses and instructors taking advantage of students.  Thisis not about who did it.  It is about the act and that somewhere it is considered acceptable by a large group of people.  I don't think except for the pertatrators themselves there is anyone who finds that martial arts instructors sexually abusing their students acceptable...



Again, you can't read what isn't printed in English or other languages you may read, or which isn't printed where you live.  You don't live in those cultures.  You have no idea what they denounce or celebrate.  You only know, as you said, what you read.  Not what you don't read because you can't access it.

So you have no idea who denounces what.  Just like the average man on the street in downtown Baghdad has little idea what the average American denounces or celebrates.

Think about it.  You don't know what 'they' denounce because you have no access to 'their' means of communication.  Neither do I, but I recognize that power of making other people somehow supposedly privy to the same information we have, and we have access to everything they say and do - we don't, it's just a convenient assumption.


----------



## Touch Of Death (Apr 10, 2011)

Twin Fist said:


> and he could leave the faith if the faith supports such actions
> 
> and islam DOES. They just released a report talking about how, in detail, a man could 'take his pleasure" with a boy and it NOT be a sin....
> 
> ...


You do know that protestant ministers end up sleeping with members of their church all the time. Are you suggesting we eliminate Christianity?
Sean


----------



## Bill Mattocks (Apr 10, 2011)

Blade96 said:


> Yeah. Poor Bill M. He's a Catholic. I know he don't agree with everything the church and pope says and does. And he's a good person.  And if people said 'I don't trust catholics, any of em!' because of the sexism and pedophiles and killing and all, I imagine he'd feel pretty crappy.



I'd understand it; but I'd be pretty ticked off by people who insist "WHY DON'T THEY DENOUNCE IT!  THEY DON'T DENOUNCE IT!  THEY MUST LOVE IT!"  I denounce it.  You've all seen me do it.  But nobody puts me on TV or writes about me in the newspaper, do they?  Yet if you went by TV and newspapers, nobody is denouncing the evil that some Catholic priests do and have done, or the evil coverups that the Church has engaged in.

I have no problem with the RCC being called to account for what it's done.  I resent the hell out of the assertion that I and my fellow Catholics don't denounce it.  Just because the guy watching the news on his couch doesn't hear me doing it does not mean it doesn't happen.

And the average Muslim who hates the idea of honor killings?  Same thing.

But bigots will believe what they want.  Haters will find reasons to hate.  There's no cure for that kind of sickness.

Know this - if forced to choose sides between haters, I won't make the choice people might like me to make.


----------



## Bill Mattocks (Apr 10, 2011)

Twin Fist said:


> Mark
> Islam is a cult of death founded by a child molesting warlord that preached conversion by force, and his church is turning out fanatics trying to force a 6th century world on us BY FORCE, in numbers that should scare any thinking person.
> 
> I know exactly what I am saying, and let me say it again
> ...



I think you're a deluded, sick man and in need of help.


----------



## Twin Fist (Apr 10, 2011)

******** Marlon

http://www.uncoverage.net/2010/03/the-ayatollah-khomeinis-booksex-with-children-and-animals/

*A  man can have sexual pleasure from a child as young as a baby.  However,  he should not penetrate vaginally, but sodomising the child is  acceptable.  If a man does penetrate and damage the child then,  he should be responsible for her subsistence all her life.  This girl  will not count as one of his four permanent wives and the man will not  be eligible to marry the girls sister  It is better for a girl to  marry at such a time when she would begin menstruation at her husbands  house, rather than her fathers home.  Any father marrying his daughter  so young will have a permanent place in heaven.  ["Tahrirolvasyleh", fourth edition, Qom, Iran, 1990]




*
Wanna re-think that? An AYATOLLAH,, not some quack who starts his own church, an AYATOLLAH. Apparently it IS a part of islam.




marlon said:


> Investigate sources, please.  That is complete crap and is no way shape or form part of Islam.Please remember the scary Christian sects that have existed over time even in our society.


----------



## Twin Fist (Apr 10, 2011)

Bill, since it is apparently ok to throw PERSONAL insults around here, I can do that too.....or do you want to cowboy up, rein in your emotions and have a discussion?


btw-"no it isnt" proves NOTHING, and makes you sound like a 5 year old.

You think what YOU want to think, I happen to think you sound like a naive child, but i know you are not, you are just in deep deep denial of the actual factual state of radical islam in the world. You are an optimistic sort of guy, you think the nice normal person you know is the rule, when it MIGHT be the exception

which is ok, the truth about islam is scary as hell, i dont blame people for refusing to see something that horrible.


----------



## Touch Of Death (Apr 10, 2011)

Twin Fist said:


> ******** Marlon
> 
> http://www.uncoverage.net/2010/03/the-ayatollah-khomeinis-booksex-with-children-and-animals/
> 
> ...


Wouldn't that be like lumping you in with what the Pope says?
Sean


----------



## Twin Fist (Apr 10, 2011)

Touch Of Death said:


> Wouldn't that be like lumping you in with what the Pope says?
> Sean




you are not even making sense now, you are just knee jerking something to post, with nothing behind it


----------



## Touch Of Death (Apr 10, 2011)

Twin Fist said:


> you are not even making sense now, you are just knee jerking something to post, with nothing behind it


I'm starting to think Bill has a point that is not easy to dismiss.
Sean


----------



## Twin Fist (Apr 10, 2011)

and i see the usual suspects still resort to name calling......


----------



## Touch Of Death (Apr 10, 2011)

Twin Fist said:


> and i see the usual suspects still resort to name calling......


Did I do thaaaaaaat?


----------



## Sukerkin (Apr 10, 2011)

Come along, gentlemen.  

As I've taken part in this thread, it is not normally seen as 'good' for me to now pull out my 'staff' hat, so I shall refrain from doing so.  I'll just remind everyone that even in the freer air of the Study it is still encumbent upon people to behave with a modicum of respect and restraint with regard to each other.


----------



## Twin Fist (Apr 10, 2011)

and I have tried to do so while getting nothing but **** sandwiches thrown at me.


----------



## fangjian (Apr 10, 2011)

Twin Fist said:


> Mark
> Islam is a cult of death founded by a child molesting warlord that preached conversion by force, and his church is turning out fanatics trying to force a 6th century world on us BY FORCE, in numbers that should scare any thinking person.
> 
> I know exactly what I am saying, and let me say it again
> ...



No religion is compatible with the modern world. It sounds mean or harsh to say such thing about Christianity and Islam etc. But like I've said before, it's not *us* being extreme it's your holy books that are. These books are nowhere near moral.


----------



## Twin Fist (Apr 10, 2011)

the difference being that there are no large political groups looking to spread a world wide christian government BY FORCE


----------



## Blade96 (Apr 10, 2011)

i don't believe this. TF is judging all muslims by what one sick piece of human excrement said.


----------



## fangjian (Apr 10, 2011)

Blade96 said:


> i don't believe this. TF is judging all muslims by what one sick piece of human excrement said.



idk.  I think he is judging *Islam* by what it does. Like the bible, the quran is filled with insane amounts of hate and other ridiculous stuff. They are a problem. And many choose to just ignore the elephant in the room.


----------



## Blade96 (Apr 10, 2011)

fangjian said:


> idk.  I think he is judging *Islam* by what it does. Like the bible, the quran is filled with insane amounts of hate and other ridiculous stuff. They are a problem. And many choose to just ignore the elephant in the room.



lol, try to keep up, ok? he said he don't trust muslims, any of them. That's judging all muslims. not just islam the religion.


----------



## yorkshirelad (Apr 10, 2011)

Bill Mattocks said:


> OK so far...
> 
> A) I disagree. B) I've pointed out many instances of cultures inside the USA that do not assimilate, and we don't have a problem with them any more than they have a problem with us (*such as Amish*). So it's apparently not 'assimilation' that is the problem.
> 
> .


 
You're right, assimilation is not the problem. Violence in Islam is the problem! When was the last time you heard of Amish terrorism Bill? i come from a place that is infested with Islamic militants, why? Because they have been allowed to dpread their religion of hate and have not assimilated. The US is not far behind the UK in this regard Bill.


----------



## Blade96 (Apr 10, 2011)

Twin Fist said:


> and I have tried to do so while getting nothing but **** sandwiches thrown at me.



If you don't want sandwiches, maybe you shouldn't open up a cafe.


----------



## yorkshirelad (Apr 10, 2011)

Bill Mattocks said:


> I have no problem with the RCC being called to account for what it's done. I resent the hell out of the assertion that I and my fellow Catholics don't denounce it. Just because the guy watching the news on his couch doesn't hear me doing it does not mean it doesn't happen.
> .


You might denounce it verbally, but you, along with millions of other Catholic keep giving your tithe, so that Ratzinger and his cronies can pay; legal fees for pedos, rent in a luxurious penthouse for the pedo enabler Law, Laws flight to Rome to evade law enforcement, the upkeep of the Christian Brotherhood, who have sexually tortured literally thousands of children of the years. Oh and your tithe has allowed the Catholic church to retain it's priceless real estate and art collection. This property should've been in someway made solvent and given to the living people who were tortured as children. The whole organization let them down and then tried to cover it up, when the whole sorry state of affairs was uncovered. BUT THE FAITHFUL KEPT GIVING MONEY. Some denouncement.
I think we can safely say that Ratzinger is quite definatley NOT God's representative on Earth!


----------



## Twin Fist (Apr 10, 2011)

Blade, let me make this really simple;

I hate ISLAM

i dont trust anyone that follows what is clearly (to me) an evil belief system

I hate LIBERALISM

I dont trust anyone that follows what is clearly (to me) an evil belief system

I laugh at Scientology

I laugh at anyone foolish enough to follow such a fairy tale

I dont hate the people, but I do judge them by what they choose to follow.

I think the people that handle snakes or refuse medical treatment are fools

I dont hate the people, but i do judge them based on thier actions.

So me a muslim that speaks out against the **** muslims do, and admits that the prophet was a child molesting pedophile, and i will trust them


----------



## Blade96 (Apr 10, 2011)

Twin Fist said:


> Blade, let me make this really simple;
> 
> I hate ISLAM
> 
> i dont trust anyone that follows what is clearly (to me) an evil belief system



Ok cool. Neither would I, those who follow what you just named. Seriously, the ayatollah Khomeini of iran? I very much doubt.....no. I bet my right arm cause I know for a fact, that he does NOT speak for all muslims. He's sick!


----------



## Blade96 (Apr 10, 2011)

On March 9th, 2011, women in Turkey took to the streets to protest honor killing in their muslim country

http://en.news.maktoob.com/20090000617988/Women_protest_against_honour_killings_/Article.htm


----------



## Twin Fist (Apr 10, 2011)

wonder how many were killed or beaten for doing so?


----------



## granfire (Apr 10, 2011)

Twin Fist said:


> wonder how many were killed or beaten for doing so?



Probably not a one.
Turkey prouds itself on being progressive.


You will find a lot more of that fundamentalist poop going on elseweere...


----------



## Twin Fist (Apr 10, 2011)

lets hope it spreads like fire.

problem is, the progressive type of islam is dying, and the hard liners are the ones gaining ground


----------



## Blade96 (Apr 11, 2011)

i just posted it to show that not all muslims believe in honor killings and stuff.


----------



## RandomPhantom700 (Apr 11, 2011)

Twin Fist said:


> lets hope it spreads like fire.
> 
> problem is, the progressive type of islam is dying, and the hard liners are the ones gaining ground


 
So therefore kill all Muslims?  Even though you just acknowledged that there is a "progressive type" that opposes the hard-liners?  I'm not going to argue whether the Koran (Que'ran?) is violent or hateful, because I honestly don't know a whole lot about its content.  But I will point out that, from reading this thread and others in which you've written on the subject, that your position just doesn't make sense.


----------



## granfire (Apr 11, 2011)

Just because the moderates and progressives do not make the headlines does not mean they don't exist....


----------



## fangjian (Apr 11, 2011)

"If I'm of the opinion that Islam is dangerous because it's a primitive, male-dominated, bloodthirsty, oppressive religion, it does not make me racist or a hater. Islam is not a race. It is a dangerous machine built upon a foundational document (the Qur'an) which calls for the extermination of all who do not believe."

I read this earlier and it kinda made me think about how it almost doesn't matter what one muslim does or what another does or says. Like most religions, they all follow texts that preach hate. 
Like Christianity. There are many good people, and there are also guys like Fred Phelps. The problem though is they both look to the same hateful book for inspiration. Both the Quran and the bible say things like,"   Kill non believers, kill homosexuals, kill ........"    I just don't respect those views. And when someone tells me they think they are the words of a god, it makes me nervous. I'm a non-believer. Are they gonna kill me ?


----------



## crushing (Apr 11, 2011)

Touch Of Death said:


> Don't you just love the us against them mentality?


 
Yes.  That mentality is very prevalent among them.


----------



## granfire (Apr 11, 2011)

crushing said:


> Yes.  That mentality is very prevalent among them.




which 'them'?


----------



## crushing (Apr 11, 2011)

granfire said:


> which 'them'?


 
Obviously, the 'them' to whom ToD was referring that have the "us against them mentality".


----------



## Twin Fist (Apr 11, 2011)

RandomPhantom700 said:


> So therefore kill all Muslims?  ...............that your position just doesn't make sense.




have i said to kill all of them? or for that matter to kill anyone?

NO

then that was a silly, wasted question

my position makes perfect sense. the book is evil, written by an evil man, and anyone that follows the evil book is showing questionable judgement. And cannot be trusted. Sure they are most likely just fine, but maybe they are not.


----------



## Touch Of Death (Apr 11, 2011)

Twin Fist said:


> have i said to kill all of them? or for that matter to kill anyone?
> 
> NO
> 
> ...


Hating them is the first step in dehumanizing them, so that you might kill them. The question I have is why are you publicly trying to stir more distrust and hate?
Sean


----------



## Twin Fist (Apr 11, 2011)

I am stating MY opinion, not trying to convert people.

you are projecting


----------



## Touch Of Death (Apr 11, 2011)

Twin Fist said:


> I am stating MY opinion, not trying to convert people.
> 
> you are projecting


No, I was asking a question. You must be projecting that I'm projecting.
Sean


----------



## Twin Fist (Apr 11, 2011)

your Jedi powers wont work on me, I know these are the droids I was looking for dammit!


----------



## Blade96 (Apr 11, 2011)

Blade96 said:


> i don't believe this. TF is judging all muslims by what one sick piece of human excrement said.



To whoever neg repped me for this:

'Ignorance becomes me?' How was I ignorant? You can read what he wrote for yourself.


----------



## RandomPhantom700 (Apr 13, 2011)

Twin Fist said:
			
		

> have i said to kill all of them? or for that matter to kill anyone?
> 
> NO
> 
> then that was a silly, wasted question


 


Twin Fist said:


> and he could leave the faith if the faith supports such actions
> 
> and islam DOES. They just released a report talking about how, in detail, a man could 'take his pleasure" with a boy and it NOT be a sin....
> 
> ...


 
Forgive me for connecting the dots here, but does it still sound silly?


----------



## granfire (Apr 13, 2011)

Silly?

He sounds like Cousin Hitler...


----------



## fangjian (Apr 13, 2011)

He doesn't want to kill muslims. Twin Fist just seems to think that humanity would be better off without Islam. I happen to think he is correct. Along with all other 'pseudosciences'.  _Homo sapiens_ would be better off. If it wasn't for religion, we'd be exploring the galaxy by now and living to be 200 years old.


----------



## granfire (Apr 13, 2011)

fangjian said:


> He doesn't want to kill muslims. Twin Fist just seems to think that humanity would be better off without Islam. I happen to think he is correct. Along with all other 'pseudosciences'.  _Homo sapiens_ would be better off. If it wasn't for religion, we'd be exploring the galaxy by now and living to be 200 years old.




Unless he proposes a plan like PETA and HSUS for our domestic animals - you know, spaying and neutering so breeding seizes So within one generations, blah blah blah...
'needing to be erased from the earth' is verbage taken straight from Adolf the Unneccessary's bestseller. 
I do agree with you that religion is a limiting factor for mankind. But since we don't have the brain power to rise above it, we might as well use it to limit our numbers...

But seriously, calling for 1/4 of the world population to be erased from the earth because you don't like the book they read from (and a fraction of those billions of people misinterpret) is sickening and bigotted.


----------



## fangjian (Apr 13, 2011)

granfire said:


> Unless he proposes a plan like PETA and HSUS for our domestic animals - you know, spaying and neutering so breeding seizes So within one generations, blah blah blah...
> 'needing to be erased from the earth' is verbage taken straight from Adolf the Unneccessary's bestseller.
> I do agree with you that religion is a limiting factor for mankind. But since we don't have the brain power to rise above it, we might as well use it to limit our numbers...
> 
> But seriously, calling for 1/4 of the world population to be erased from the earth because you don't like the book they read from (and a fraction of those billions of people misinterpret) is sickening and bigotted.



The way to erase ignorance is with education and understanding. Weapons just breed more ignorance.  Ignorance needs to be erased, not people.


----------



## granfire (Apr 13, 2011)

fangjian said:


> The way to erase ignorance is with education and understanding. Weapons just breed more ignorance.  Ignorance needs to be erased.




Can't argue with you there.


----------



## Twin Fist (Apr 13, 2011)

I didnt say to kill anyone, and claiming that I did is a lie and saying ti makes you a liar

I want ISLAM gone, not the people that follow it. Unless they are radical types who believe it is just fine to rape an infidel since they are not really human anyway....

if they think jihad means to killall the jews and they want to cut my head off, even cut gran's head off?

nuke the site from orbit, it's the only way to be sure.

I dont care WHO it sounds like, Islam is a disease and We need a cure.


----------



## fangjian (Apr 13, 2011)

Twin Fist said:


> I didnt say to kill anyone, and claiming that I did is a lie and saying ti makes you a liar
> 
> I want ISLAM gone, not the people that follow it. Unless they are radical types who believe it is just fine to rape an infidel since they are not really human anyway....
> 
> ...


hahahah

Ummm,  education will cure the affliction of Islam, Christianity, etc. , not nuclear weapons.  Lolz Love the 'Aliens' quote though.


----------



## granfire (Apr 13, 2011)

Twin Fist said:


> I didnt say to kill anyone, and claiming that I did is a lie and saying ti makes you a liar


let's examin that....shall we?



> I want ISLAM gone, not the people that follow it. Unless they are radical types who believe it is just fine to rape an infidel since they are not really human anyway....


Ahhh, contradiction in the same breath...a religion is nothing without people who follow it. 
To eliminate a religion, you have to convert people (but converts are worse than the born and raised in the faith, always) or, well, eliminate the people...last tiem I looked that meant offing them...


> if they think jihad means to killall the jews and they want to cut my head off, even cut gran's head off?


I hope you realize how silly you sound! Because 'they' might have the notion to eliminate something you want to get rid of them...THINK about that, for a second...a nano second and FEEL the irony. I mean, it's so thick, you could hide behind it...
(not to mention by now I'd imagine you'd volunteer to sharpen the knife for them jsut so they get me quick)



> nuke the site from orbit, it's the only way to be sure.


unless you are talking about sticking something not alive into a microwave oven... nuking means, well essentially KILLING....



> I dont care WHO it sounds like, Islam is a disease and We need a cure.


And there you go again...sounding like one of 'them' harping on the mean old infidels corrupting decent human beings...

So you want to kill 1/4th or of the world's population...

And that makes you morally superior exactly how?


----------



## Tez3 (Apr 30, 2011)

Do you think it's just Muslims that will kill for 'honour' or because the children are too western? It's not, it's an Asian and Middle Eastern 'thing', you will find if you chose to look that there are many such killings in India among the different religious groups.


----------



## Carol (Apr 30, 2011)

Tez3 said:


> Do you think it's just Muslims that will kill for 'honour' or because the children are too western? It's not, it's an Asian and Middle Eastern 'thing', you will find if you chose to look that there are many such killings in India among the different religious groups.



Of course it is!  But the stories only make the American press when Muslims are doing the killing.


----------



## billc (Apr 30, 2011)

Yes, we Americans are a little sensitive to radical muslim extremism after that little event in New York That killed 3,000 people in one go, and the one at fort bliss, and the Kobar towers, and the first world trade center attack, and the embassies in Africa, and the attack on the naval ship Cole and the killing of the army recruiter and the foiled christmas bomber...it seems like people think those things never happened and that we aren't reminded about them each time an attack here is foiled.  It would be one thing to just pick up on crazies in a religion, but a concentrated effort by one religion and we are supposed to pretend there isn't a connection or a concern.


----------



## Tez3 (Apr 30, 2011)

billcihak said:


> Yes, we Americans are a little sensitive to radical muslim extremism after that little event in New York That killed 3,000 people in one go, and the one at fort bliss, and the Kobar towers, and the first world trade center attack, and the embassies in Africa, and the attack on the naval ship Cole and the killing of the army recruiter and the foiled christmas bomber...it seems like people think those things never happened and that we aren't reminded about them each time an attack here is foiled. It would be one thing to just pick up on crazies in a religion, but a concentrated effort by one religion and we are supposed to pretend there isn't a connection or a concern.


 
Want to take a pop at the so called Christians otherwise known as the Provisional IRA who have started another campaign of terror, they've killed for more people than the Muslims? The alert state here has been raised as we wait for the bombing campaign to continue.


----------



## billc (Apr 30, 2011)

How have they killed more people than muslims.  Radical islamic terrorism is a world wide phenomenon, with people being killed all around the world.  I guess when an Irish citizen from the north of Ireland who happens to be a christian goes to england, the authorities check out the swedish grandmother instead?


----------



## granfire (May 1, 2011)

billcihak said:


> How have they killed more people than muslims.  Radical islamic terrorism is a world wide phenomenon, with people being killed all around the world.  I guess when an Irish citizen from the north of Ireland who happens to be a christian goes to england, the authorities check out the swedish grandmother instead?



*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents_in_London*


warning drastic image:
http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRLGh-vZJCYLzy-k7z3LUJyWhjiZXk7Xh-pRbEhijGNCBNLMTQW&t=1


----------



## Tez3 (May 1, 2011)

The IRA have killed far more than just those in bomb attacks on the mainland, they have killed in Northern Ireland and in Europe. They continue to kill, they leave bombs in children's playgrounds, they shoot people to 'discipline' them, many Irish people are still missing their graves unknown. They kill any they think are informers, those that commit crimes and those who marry out of their religion. Those they don't kill they 'kneecap'. 
You only think of the bombing campaigns, which started again the other week but many are killed when the IRA walks into their homes or pubs and are shot in front of their family and friends. Pregnant women are shot for not being married or for carrying a Protestant's baby and in case you think this is just a Catholic thing I can assure you the Proestants are every bit as bad.

The IRA have been funded in past by American sympathisers and the Libyans, they have been trained by the PLO and continue to try to get arms from American sympathisers as well as what you call radical Muslim groups.


----------

