# bad partner work



## bushidomartialarts (Nov 13, 2006)

how many of you have had this problem...

a student comes to you because a technique 'doesn't work'.  i.e., they tried it on their partner and the partner didn't let go, wound up in a position where the next shot won't land, whatever.

watching them try it, you realize the trouble is because the uke doesn't react realistically.

ferinstance, the second half of locked horns.  getting upright is kinda difficult if you haven't really racked the poor sod in step one.  so you get students squirming away because their partner still has the headlock on.

what sorts of solutions do y'all practice for this kind of situation?  i have a few of my own, but i like to listen to everybody speak before i throw in my own dog.


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## Rich Parsons (Nov 13, 2006)

bushidomartialarts said:


> how many of you have had this problem...
> 
> a student comes to you because a technique 'doesn't work'. i.e., they tried it on their partner and the partner didn't let go, wound up in a position where the next shot won't land, whatever.
> 
> ...



The first thing I do is give them a new technique for when they are out of position for the other one. But I make sure what every it is, it causes pain to the other person. Then I go back and make it work with a little more force, (* still under control *), and demonstrate to they uke when the go to work it on me, that if I counter them they never get a chance to learn. So the options are to play nice, or to learn the real hard way, which will require  them to try it on me with me always countering and them never to get a real chance to practice. Even the most dense male gets this. There is an issue of increase resistance, but one has to first learn the single or the technique before trying it out for real. Which is my point to the person not playing well with others. If they are resisting too much then it is explain that at this point in the learning of this techinque control and feeling and slow practice is required versus fast, real and injuries. 

If by chance it is just a limber person or ticklish person that is squirming out by reflex and not trying to be hard to work with, gets the explanation that they are not to forget what they are doing but for now to try to turn off their own defenses to allow the other person to practice. 

I also personalize it to each individual. So it depends upon the person and the situation.


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## morph4me (Nov 13, 2006)

Rich Parsons said:


> The first thing I do is give them a new technique for when they are out of position for the other one. But I make sure what every it is, it causes pain to the other person. Then I go back and make it work with a little more force, (* still under control *), and demonstrate to the uke when the go to work it on me, that if I counter them they never get a chance to learn. So the options are to play nice, or to learn the real hard way, which will require them to try it on me with me always countering and them never to get a real chance to practice. Even the most dense male gets this. There is an issue of increase resistance, but one has to first learn the single or the technique before trying it out for real. Which is my point to the person not playing well with others. If they are resisting too much then it is explain that at this point in the learning of this techinque control and feeling and slow practice is required versus fast, real and injuries.
> 
> If by chance it is just a limber person or ticklish person that is squirming out by reflex and not trying to be hard to work with, gets the explanation that they are not to forget what they are doing but for now to try to turn off their own defenses to allow the other person to practice.
> 
> I also personalize it to each individual. So it depends upon the person and the situation.


 
Agreed, I do the same thing


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## Block (Nov 13, 2006)

My Sensei use to tell me of stories of how students would actually show up at Mr. Parker Sr.s house and tell him how his techniques didnt work. So, Mr. Parker would demonstrate for them. 

Whoa, would he demonstrate. It seems in one case where the person who was attempting the technique could not land a backfist to the dummys head because after he got kicked in the kidney his head didnt move back. When Mr. Parker demonstrated the technique, the students learned that indeed the head does whip back when actually kicked in the kidney.

There were other times of course. More than once someone left his home in an ambulance. In one case, apparently someone had their spine compacted.


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## CoryKS (Nov 13, 2006)

My instructor introduces every new technique by explaining the attack; showing the movements; and giving a hands-on demonstration.  So I have no doubt that the technique _can_ work, with sufficient aptitude.  Sometimes, if the movement feels counter-intuitive, I will ask for a demonstration as the defender.  Often they don't work when we students are doing hands-on, but I chalk that up to my inexperience and the fact that I'm not actually elbowing my opponent in the windpipe.


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## IWishToLearn (Nov 14, 2006)

I have a similar approach to Cory's instructor.


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## Touch Of Death (Nov 14, 2006)

This problem is the number one reason kenpo gets changed. I seen vids where the bodies don't react at all and stand their like a Bob. It's insane.
Sean


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## whitedragon_48 (Nov 15, 2006)

Mmm... A case of "difficult" or uncooperative partner. Well I've used these oportunities to teach the student how to "adapt" the technique, the "what ifs". I also explain the partner the inmportance on him cooperating and that later it will be his turn to do the tech. If they're still being uncooperative I might go so far as to demonstrate the technique "lightly" as to get the point across. I've had a couple of student doubt Kenpo's techs. I remember one case where the guy said flat out in the middle of class that my tech wouldn't work. I called him upfront and had him explain the class why. After his explanation he let me perfor it at about 10%. He had to sit out the rest of the class, but, after that, I could've said the sky was pink and the sun blue and he would've believed me.


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## Doc (Nov 16, 2006)

Block said:


> More than once someone left his home in an ambulance. In one case, apparently someone had their spine compacted.



Absolutely, positively, emphatically, *Not True*. If you continue to tell this part of the story, please preface it with, "Somebody told me ... " instead of repeating it as first person fact. Thanks.


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## Kenpodoc (Nov 16, 2006)

When I started training I would have to whack an uncooperative partner to make a technique work. I find as I train longer that I can put my partner where i want them without having to injure them.  I'm not actually sure what I'm doing differently but now I find that if my partner doesn't go where I want them, it's my fault not theirs. When I started I needed the cooperative partner to learn the basic movements but now I learn more with uncooperative partners.  

My solution in teaching  a  class is to do the technique on the uncooperative person to demonstrate that the technique works regardless and then to ask that they cooperate and help their partner to learn.

respectfully,

Jeff


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## Kenpojujitsu3 (Nov 17, 2006)

Kenpodoc said:


> When I started training I would have to whack an uncooperative partner to make a technique work. I find as I train longer that I can put my partner where i want them without having to injure them. I'm not actually sure what I'm doing differently but now I find that if my partner doesn't go where I want them, it's my fault not theirs. When I started I needed the cooperative partner to learn the basic movements but now I learn more with uncooperative partners.
> 
> My solution in teaching a class is to do the technique on the uncooperative person to demonstrate that the technique works regardless and then to ask that they cooperate and help their partner to learn.
> 
> ...


 
What he said.


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## Marcus Buonfiglio (Nov 22, 2006)

Doc said:


> Absolutely, positively, emphatically, *Not True*. If you continue to tell this part of the story, please preface it with, "Somebody told me ... " instead of repeating it as first person fact. Thanks.



Thanks for chiming in on that one and squelching it Mr. Chapel. That kind of  story telling erks me. 

Marcus Buonfiglio
Universal Kenpo Federation


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