# New Site & Discussion Board



## paihequan (May 22, 2003)

Hello All,

I am new to this board and would like to introduce myself by way of directing you towards my web site at:

http://home.austarnet.com.au/tsuruken

If you do take the time to visit our site please also take the time to sign our Guestbook!

We also have a new "Wings o Tradition" Discussion Forum open to all martial artist to discuss the various aspects of the art. it can be found at:

http://messageboard459368.aimoo.com

I hope that you may decide to join our Forum!

Best wishes!


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## RyuShiKan (May 22, 2003)

Well Ron G. as I live and breath.
Remember me?:rofl:


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## paihequan (May 22, 2003)

With respect, no I don't remember you. Sorry


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## arnisador (May 23, 2003)

Good luck!


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## sweeper (May 23, 2003)

that's a very nice website, don't have time to look over it all right now but I will return


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## paihequan (May 23, 2003)

Sweeper, Thanks. I hope you will visit it again and please sign our Guestbook


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## RyuShiKan (May 23, 2003)

> _Originally posted by paihequan _
> *With respect, no I don't remember you. Sorry *




Oh now that hurts.:vu: 

You mean you dont remember me from E-Budo?
I was the one that brought up how your old website was an exact rip off of Pat McCarthys. You had changed a few words around so it would fit your style you were teaching.
After which Pat asked you to stop using his Copyrighted material on your website..back in the day when you claimed you were a white crane kung fu master, that was after you were a Soke, but had actually never really studied white crane kung fu.

I invite anyone to email Patrick McCarthy and get the low down on Ron a.k.a. Paihequan :anic:


Just in case you forgot what your's said:

I have heard "imitation is the sincerest form of flattery" but come on Ron.........this is a bit over the top isn't it.

From Goninans Site:

*To introduce & firmly establish Butoryu Paihequan © as a completely systematized & modern interpretation of Okinawan / Fujian defensive Crane-Fist throughout the world .*



From McCarthys Site:

*To introduce & firmly establish Koryu Uchinadi® as a completely systematized & modern interpretation of Okinawan-Fujian defensive martial arts culture throughout the world*


and that was just the first paragraph of the first page!


You than posted a bunch of smiley faces and blundered at any sort of rhyme or reason as to why you copied his website.

I then asked you:

*Ok Ron, enough horse sxxt.
Let me ask you point blankly why your website in the place I have mentioned was the same as McCarthys? No smiley faces or excuses just a regular answer for once would be nice.
Are you man enough to admit you purposely copied McCarthy's website?*

Patrick McCarthys reply to your intellectual property theft was:


*
Dear Robert,

I concur with your comments and admire your perseverance, but I honestly doubt that such efforts, as well intended as they may be, will ever do much. This fellow's opinion of himself is medically deluded/challenged. 

In the nearly 10 years since I first came into contact with him, his questionable character, unscrupulous actions and unsavory reputation, have never once stopped him from shoveling the hogwash. He's always portrayed himself as an *expert* in virtually every martial art that's come in and out of vogue, without ever spending the obligatory years in training/study. What's more, is the preposterous ranks and titles he advertises himself as elsewhere; Soke, Hanshi, Kyoshi, Sifu, and Shinshi, but would have E-Budo folk think it's just Ron! The saddest part of all of this is the naive learners in his rural district, and like-minded cyber geeks, he's able to mislead. 

He continually applied to become part of our research group but no one wanted him, least of all me. I even had members threaten to pull out if he was allowed to come on board. That was just after the time he apologized for a two year unwarranted attack on me, along side cohorts Matt Henderson and convicted felon, and phony Navy Seal, Mike Davis (moderator of budogeeks). 

Judging by his own claims I am sure that Mr. Gonads is serious about budo and is as infatuated with it as are the rest of us. However, that he cannot see the wrong-ness of his dishonest ways will probably remain the one pillar he'll never surmount because such effort would require genuine integrity. Ron may have big Gonads, but his moral fiber and ethical underpinnings are thin and non-existent! Aren't they more important when compared to how many titles one can appropriate?

Robert, I really think Mike Davis' group (budogeeks) is where his kind of sophism belongs. 

PM



Because Ron Goninan is Bad Budo. He has lied about his training, faked his dan rank(s), Trolled, plagiarized on here, people like him should be and will be exposed. His hypocritical comments are an insult to anyone that trains with an ounce of sincerity. To merely ignore him as you suggest is to condone his despicable actions and indirectly helps propagate his lies.*

Also from McCarthys post on how you claimed to be a private non-profit dojo.
Parts of this are from your old website:
(your comment on a question asked about your dojo)
*1/. No I am located in Australia in a small rural town known as Wellington. I do not have a "public" school as such preferring to teach a small group of selected people. I do not teach on a commercial basis.

(website)
Ron Goninan, founder of the KOBGK Paihequan International set up a well-equipped training hall, called the Gohokan (Treasure House), and commenced to admit students publicly into its teachings, and turned teaching martial arts into a career.

Presented for your educational and non-profit enjoyment: 

MEMBERSHIP:

The KOBGK Paihequan International welcomes new members who are serious about Crane-Fist studies, regardless of age, race, sex, religion or martial arts background. There are however, certain requirements for membership, the most important being the belief in and desire that the essence of Crane-Fist be practised and passed on in the correct manner. Please see our "Membership" section for further information 


YEARLY MEMBERSHIP FEES (AUSTRALIA):
v Zongbu Yearly Student & Dan Grade Membership Fees: $25.00 1st Year.

(includes Membership Certificate,



v Membership Renewal: $20.00 Every Year



v Gohokan Research Society Membership Fee: $50.00 Per Year.

(Includes Access to Research Items)



AUSTRALIAN BRANCH SCHOOL FEES:
Branch School Charter Membership: $150.00 Per Year 
Branch Dojo Student Membership: $5.00 Per Student 

YEARLY MEMBERSHIP FEES (ENGLAND):

Zongbu Yearly Student & Dan Grade Membership Fees: £50.00 1st Year 
Membership Renewal: £30.00 Every Year 
Grading assessment by video: £20.00
Includes certificate (only if pass) together with assessment notes & advise for future development. 

YEARLY MEMBERSHIP FEES (AMERICA):

Zongbu Yearly Student & Dan Grade Membership Fees: $50.00 1st Year (USD) (includes Membership Certificate, Level 1 Video) 
Membership Renewal: $30.00 Every Year (USD) 
Grading assessment by video: $20.00 (USD)
Includes certificate (only if pass) together with assessment notes & advise for future development. 
Members may purchase the Crane-Fist Instructional Videos and train at home. You may subsequently video-test for rank promotions.

"WINGS OF TRADITION" SYLLABUS CD-ROM

Don't forget that the "Wings of Tradition" CD-Rom is now available from Zongbu. The CD-Rom covers the entire KOBGK Paihequan International Syllabus in-depth and is only available to current members of the KOBGK Paihequan International. Cost of the CD-ROM is $35.00 including postage and handling.*




Does that refresh your memory Ron?


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## KanoLives (May 23, 2003)

Damn.


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## tarabos (May 23, 2003)

well then...that was...thourough, to say the least. 

i guess that's that....


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## Don Roley (May 23, 2003)

Why does it seem that this place is where people of questionable charecter who can't handle the questions and discussion on e-budo flee to?

http://www.e-budo.com/vbulletin/sho...&threadid=16156


http://www.e-budo.com/vbulletin/sho...&threadid=14295



http://www.e-budo.com/vbulletin/sho...15&pagenumber=2



http://www.e-budo.com/vbulletin/sho...&threadid=15134



http://www.e-budo.com/vbulletin/sho...&threadid=15776


I am going to make some quick predictions. First we will not see any proof of personal training history- only excuses and explinations about how rank/ affiliation is mainly motivated by money, etc. If anything embarrasing is posted, we will see the excuse that he is trying to atone for past sins and if things get too hot, a statement that his time is better spent playing with his daughter or actually training (implying that the rest of us don't.)


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## Kirk (May 23, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Don Roley _
> *Why does it seem that this place is where people of questionable charecter who can't handle the questions and discussion on e-budo flee to?
> 
> http://www.e-budo.com/vbulletin/sho...&threadid=16156
> ...



Not a single one of those links worked for me ..... tease!


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## paihequan (May 23, 2003)

Welcome to "Martial Talk" ... the "Friendly Discussion about the  Martial Arts!"

A special hi to *Mr. Robert Rousselot* alias *"RyuShiKan"*. It's great to know that you are still around! 

Not posting anymore on E-Budo Robert? Why is that?

Your a little behind the times old mate as Mr. McCarthy and I have settled our issues and decided to each go our separate ways. You would be better served directing your considerable if not misinformed and misguided energies elsewhere as many of us have moved on and are not so obviously "stuck in the past"

Anyway old mate. Great to see you on the "friendly" Martial Talk forum.

I wish you all the best with your future posts and discussions.


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## chufeng (May 23, 2003)

ahem...

If you've already established yourself as a "wannabe" and a fraud, why do you want to spread your lies here?

Quite frankly, I'm getting tired of the number of BS artists who enter this website...

If the moderators won't stop the flow of "illegals" from crossing the border...I'll move to Montana and you won't hear of me again...

Yes it's a free country (webpage) but for crying out loud...
This is the fifth or sixth individual who has come on this board with the Hi. I'm new, blah blah blah...and has turned out to be something other than the individual self-reports.

I like sharing information with folks...I LOVE learning from other people, but I am growing tired of the frauds who are allowed to roam around without accounting for their lies...

Paihequan...why aren't YOU on e-Budo? and if you are, why are you spreading misinformation over here?

To get an education? what? You want to learn from us so you can take it as your own and teach your poor deluded students?

Fat chance...

:asian:
chufeng


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## paihequan (May 23, 2003)

Chufeng,

I'm pleased to see that "Martial Talk" lives up to it's *"Friendly Discussion about the Martial Arts"*  tag! 

I'm even more pleased to see it's members also subscribe to this rule!

A word of advice, if you don't like my posts, simply ignore them. 

Anyhow thanks for the "friendly" welcome mate!


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## MartialArtist (May 23, 2003)

> _Originally posted by tarabos _
> *well then...that was...thourough, to say the least.
> 
> i guess that's that.... *


Hahahahahahahahahahah!  Nice avatar!  




Anyway, I'm not going to touch this subject with a ten foot pole.


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## Don Roley (May 23, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Kirk _
> *Not a single one of those links worked for me ..... tease!  *



Aaaargh... I hate computers!

Lets see if I can get this right if I post just one.

http://www.e-budo.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=15776

Based on what I see on e-budo, I think we are in for alternating insults and then reminders that we have to treat people with respect coming from the same person.


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## Bob Hubbard (May 23, 2003)

General FYI: E-Budo seems to want you to have an account before you can even see the board....might be one of the reasons why the links dont 'work'.


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## paihequan (May 23, 2003)

RyuShKan is like amny others entitled to his opinions and this must be respected. I however will not lower myself (or this board) by engaging in politics and "flame wars".

It's "old news" at best and long since dealt with on other discussion forums.

By the way, "Martial Artist" I like your signature, very true!

Best wishes


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## SteelShadow (May 23, 2003)

Come on people this is getting old I have not posted to most of these threads.But I gotta say.Maybe  you think paihequan is a fraud maybe you dont.But he didnt do anyhting to deserve a jumping all he did was come on say hi and post his boards site.And was fired at almost by the time he got here.He didnt come in making claims or anyhting.if you dont like him hey more power to you but dont jump someone just because you have disagreed with them before.this is exactly what gets flames started.And more than likely Ill get bashed for this to but it wont be the first time and probably wont be the last.This constant flaming is for the birds.I mean at least if your gonna start in on someone wait till they actually do something wrong......
just my thoughts


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## Bob Hubbard (May 23, 2003)

Issues are being addressed... I'm running behind on things due to personal reasons... The other Admins and mods are aware of this, and other issues and they are being looked into.  I expect a few announcements will be made shortly before my fulltime return to the board later this month.

Apologies to all around for my absence.:asian:


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## chufeng (May 23, 2003)

Steel Shadow,

I am not going to stand by and make nice-nice with someone who has already been established as a plagarist at the very least...

A lie is a lie...

I know a lot of folks want this to be a relative world (and in many ways it is) but when one speaks untruths, one can no longer be trusted...and when that one person tries to rewrite what is true and what is not, it reminds me, sadly, of our ex-president who wanted to redefine the word IS.

I will put this Paihequan character on my ignore list, but I want it on the record that I don't trust his motive for being here...sure, he has a right to be here...as much as any one else...

I simply  lost my composure when I found out about the dishonesty he's displayed in the past...for that, I apologize...an indication that I still need to work on a few things...

There is right and wrong...not everything is relative...but Christ did tolerate those with worse faults, so I guess I can too.

:asian:
chufeng


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## paihequan (May 23, 2003)

Chufeng, 

Thank you for your post. I respect your right to your opinions.

Yes I admit I have made some mistakes in the past and those mistakes have been addressed with the person or persons they concerned and have been resolved. I, like you, need and am working on a few things myself.

My motivations are I can assure you simply to enjoy respectful discussions with others.

Once again, I will not enter into a "Flame War" with others. 

Best wishes.


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## SteelShadow (May 23, 2003)

Im not saying stand by and say nothing or even to make nice to those you dislike.all im saying is at least if you feel someone is a screwup give them the chance to do so before you trash them.(not saying you did).And im sure someone will say oh well so and so already did mess up well crap who hasnt that dosnt mean to jump in everytime you see thier name and start trashing them.everyone messes up And im not defending anyone Im simply saying just because you feel someone is questionable or not to your likeing .Dosnt mean to trash them or start trying to make them look bad.And in my HO those that do this over and over agian need to figure out what it is that is diving them to do this.Is it they want to espose frauds? Maybe.But after awhile you have to wonder if maybe  by pointing out others mistakes or flaws or wrongs they can divert thier attention away from thier own shortcomings.Or in some cases maybe they just like to make others look bad.Maybe they truly believe in what thier doing But even the most ritious of beliefs can be taken to far...

Just my thoughts


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## Matt Stone (May 23, 2003)

The Mods should be congratulated at the seeming increase in membership.  I know a short time ago I was visiting E-budo, and was amazed to see a reference to us Yili folks there, referring a poster to Martial Talk for more information on a question he had posed...

*Paihequan* - 

While I have been a member on E-budo for quite a while, I can't say that I recall the nature of the quarrel between you, Mr. McCarthy and RyuShiKan...  Care to elaborate?

Gambarimasu.
:asian:


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## D.Cobb (May 23, 2003)

> _Originally posted by SteelShadow _
> *Im not saying stand by and say nothing or even to make nice to those you dislike.all im saying is at least if you feel someone is a screwup give them the chance to do so before you trash them.(not saying you did).And im sure someone will say oh well so and so already did mess up well crap who hasnt that dosnt mean to jump in everytime you see thier name and start trashing them.everyone messes up And im not defending anyone Im simply saying just because you feel someone is questionable or not to your likeing .Dosnt mean to trash them or start trying to make them look bad.And in my HO those that do this over and over agian need to figure out what it is that is diving them to do this.Is it they want to espose frauds? Maybe.But after awhile you have to wonder if maybe  by pointing out others mistakes or flaws or wrongs they can divert thier attention away from thier own shortcomings.Or in some cases maybe they just like to make others look bad.Maybe they truly believe in what thier doing But even the most ritious of beliefs can be taken to far...
> 
> Just my thoughts *



In most cases, I would think , it's just an extreme lack of tolerance for BS. If I knew enough about these different people, I would be doing the same. Unfortunately, I don't and therefore, need to rely on people like RyuShiKan & Pat McCarthy, to point out frauds wherever they maybe. Especially those in Australia, as I can only judge what I see from what I am taught. RG might be good, I am not qualified to tell, but RSK and PM are, and I trust these 2 gentlemen.
*Keep Up The Good Work Robert.* 

--Dave

:asian:


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## SteelShadow (May 23, 2003)

On the same token if you only go by what others say thiers no telling what you will miss.Good or bad rather than going only on what others tell you check things out for yourself and make your on conclusions.again for good or bad.....


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## tarabos (May 23, 2003)

> _Originally posted by MartialArtist _
> *Hahahahahahahahahahah!  Nice avatar!
> *



lol...Arthur Fonzerelli aims to please


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## SteelShadow (May 23, 2003)

Anyway I said what i had to say.Im finished with it


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## arnisador (May 23, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Don Roley _
> *I think we are in for alternating insults and then reminders that we have to treat people with respect coming from the same person. *



I've been seeing a lot of that lately.


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## D.Cobb (May 24, 2003)

> _Originally posted by SteelShadow _
> *On the same token if you only go by what others say thiers no telling what you will miss.Good or bad rather than going only on what others tell you check things out for yourself and make your on conclusions.again for good or bad..... *



True enough, but I wouldn't want to send money to a fake, good or bad.

--Dave

:asian:


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## paihequan (May 24, 2003)

Geez all this because I posted a link to a web site


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## Matt Stone (May 24, 2003)

Having a past can be a real *****...

It is hard for a martial arts instructor to make any mistakes of any kind...  As semi-public figures, we will all be crucified for any wrongdoing we are caught committing.

I work in the Army JAG Corps, and I have always taught on post as well...  Makes it doubly difficult to lead a private life (I have folks coming up in the PX or the commissary saying hello, asking if I'm that "kung fu guy," etc.), and doubly dangerous to do anything questionable...

Small world.  Even smaller with the internet.  And so marches progress...

Gambarimasu.
:asian:


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## paihequan (May 24, 2003)

And so marches progress!

Agreed, making any mistakes in the past is a real *****. What is worse is obsessive types who won't allow others to move on from past mistakes and cling to the last scrap of error made as if it were a lifeline. This is a sickness that consumes the individual and that in itself is extremely sad.

I recommend the following article:

*Tilting at Windmills: Obsessive Fraud Busting in the Martial Arts 
* 

It can be found at: 

http://www.philelmore.com/martial/quixote.htm


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## Matt Stone (May 24, 2003)

Since you are posting essentially the same info in different places to address your recent discussions with other members, I figure I'll post my reply to your comments elsewhere here as well...

While you may well be right in directing our attention, _yet again_ to Phil's article, I would say that another article should be penned...

*"Rubber Rafting Down 'De Nile: The Stubborn Refusal of Some to Acknowledge the Questionability of their Claims."*

There are extremes on both sides of the coin - Extreme Fraud Busters, and Extreme Frauds.

It seems to be a common tactic amongst those with questionable martial backgrounds to turn the argument into a personal attack (which, at some level, I suppose it is; though the initial "attack" is aimed at their claims to divinity, super ultimate titles, and secret knowledge from Atlantis), to turn the discussion away from their claims and toward the methods by which they have been exposed ("They were so rude when they exposed my fraudulent background! They should be more polite and tolerant of my illegal activites!"), and to present short lived penitent behavior as excusal of decades long misbehavior...

I think the sword is double-edged, and it certainly cuts both ways. Some folks are too zealous in their prosecution of frauds, and some folks are too concerned with not interfering for fear of stepping on someone's tender sensitivities.

Me? I'd rather err on behalf of the ignorant on whom the frauds relentlessly prey. Any "outing" I have ever participated in has been solely to ensure that information is provided to those who simply don't know better. I have seen too many fakes pocket too much cash from honest people that were too suckered to ask questions.

*** CAVEAT - The comments in this post are not directed toward any individual in particular, in whole or in part, nor toward any on particular organization or association. The comments are intended to be general in nature, and any implication that they are targeting individuals is entirely the misinterpretation of said comments by that individual. ***  

Gambarimasu.
:asian:


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## paihequan (May 24, 2003)

Yiliquan1 

Again Great post, and one I agree with. All I'm trying to say is it can be hard for some to know when to move onwards from their own issues.

All it serves to achieve is to cause further disharmony on what is otherwise a great Discussion Board in which the actual Discussions could be so much more positive and rewarding.

Thanks again.:asian:


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## Matt Stone (May 24, 2003)

To quote from a book I am reading currently - 



> "My apologies for my unjust suspicions."
> 
> No need to apologize.  Eternal vigilance is necessary in all foes of the dark."



Sometimes in our quest for purity, we hurt some feelings and make some enemies.  Better to travel with enemies who can appreciate your zeal, than to travel amongst those who would be your friend only to betray you later.

Working for attorneys as I do, I prefer to do things the way I was taught - allow the accused to speak freely.  Spur them on periodically, but never let on your intent nor the direction your questioning may take.  In due time, they shall either expose or exonerate themselves.  Either outcome is inevitable.

Gambarimasu.
:asian:


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## RyuShiKan (May 24, 2003)

> _Originally posted by paihequan _
> *
> Not posting anymore on E-Budo Robert? Why is that? *



I got tired of moderating on E-Budo because it was chocker block full of dipsticks & wannabees that claimed things like having an 8th dan Hanshi license after only training with someone in Okinawa for one day.



> _Originally posted by paihequan _
> *Your a little behind the times old mate as Mr. McCarthy and I have settled our issues and decided to each go our separate ways. You would be better served directing your considerable if not misinformed and misguided energies elsewhere as many of us have moved on and are not so obviously "stuck in the past"
> *



I still keep in contact with Patrick and I am well aware of your arrangement:rofl:


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## RyuShiKan (May 24, 2003)

> _Originally posted by paihequan _
> *And so marches progress!
> 
> Agreed, making any mistakes in the past is a real *****. What is worse is obsessive types who won't allow others to move on from past mistakes and cling to the last scrap of error made as if it were a lifeline. This is a sickness that consumes the individual and that in itself is extremely sad.
> *




I will tell you again just I as I told you on E-Budo when you asked for my friendship:

Because of your despicable past blatant plagiarizing, out right lying about rank and titles, and most of all the whoppers you told about the extant of your training you will have to prove not only to me but the general public that you have changed your ways

It still goes.........I have yet to see that since I still read some of the things you write on other MA BBs. 
You may pull the wool over some eyes here Ron but remember I know you and cant count all the times you claimed to have reformed your ways but have seen you go back to your old ways each time.


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## RyuShiKan (May 24, 2003)

Needless to say I dont trust you Ron and its mainly because you have sang the following tune so many times in the past and still have not changed your ways. If you hadn't sang this sob story on several other occasions I might have even believed you but like a broken record you get old and I get tired of listening. 
UNtil you change you ways this kind of thing will always come back to haunt you.
As I said on E-Budo............actions speak louder than words........you have a lot to atone for:


----- Original Message ----- 
From: Ron Goninan 
To: Patrick McCarthy 
Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2003 12:14 PM

To Mr. Patrick McCarthy,
Please find enclosed my sincere letter of personal apology for the years of slander, underhanded behaviour and plagiarizing your copyrighted work. 
Having long suffered a lack of self-esteem, I have always wanted to be something I was not. An inflated ego fueled my ambition to seek out the kind of mail-order recognition that I could easily use to establish a guise of importance, made me feel important. Coming from a small community in country NSW, this worked particularly well and made me appear as if I were a big fish in a small bowl.* Jumping from style to style over the years presented an opportunity for me to misrepresent my actual experience with each new instructor I met.* So used to this did I become that I even began to believe it myself. Writing articles for martial arts magazines helped to generate a little more publicity, which not only solidified my opinion of myself it also gave me another way with which to accredited myself. My martial arts studies have been both diverse and dotted with false claims of outlandish rank from un-credible sources. *I actually purchased a *Soke* rank from Rod Sarconoski's Juko-kai for $1500, and then several years later accepted an 8th dan Hanshi license from a complete charlatan in Okinawa named Takaya Yabiku, after only ever training with him once.* It's probably of little interest to you, but this long and lonely road has finally caught up to me and I am now choosing to expose all, in an effort to escape the enormous chain anxiety that is negatively effecting every aspect of the life I truly want to live. 
*I have knowingly carried out self-aggrandizing, unscrupulous and underhanded activities all in an effort to establish a reputation for myself, undermine your good name and protect my untenable background. I now regret this greatly. Such activities have included making pseudonym e-mail addresses in order to praise myself and criticize you, deliberately plagiarize your copyrighted material and present it as if it was my own, undermining your enviable reputation, and fabricating a history that did not accurately reflect my true martial arts background. *
I would like it to be known that I am renouncing all the derogatory comments that I have either said or written about you. It was just plain wrong and, as untrustworthy as I have been in the past, I am now appealing to your compassion to forgive me for my reprehensible actions. 
In truth, I am a great admirer or your accomplishments within the field of the martial arts and have, like so many others, been inspired by your work. I greatly admire your way of doing things, your research, the way you write, and the way in which you operate your organization. You've really had more of an influence on me then you may know. In a great many ways I have set you as a personal idol of mine. I idolized your work and the respect that was afforded to you and often wished to "be just like you." I guess that this is fairly evident. The problem was the way that I (incorrectly) set about to model my own life on yourself and your own research. 
It is my sincere hope and desire that you will accept my apology. Whatever hardships I am presently undergoing are purely the results of my own doing and my family have suffered enough shame and heartbreak as a result of my deplorable actions. I beg that you accept this and allow me the opportunity to work towards coming clean and "making it right again," without the threat of litigation looming over my head. 
Sincerely, 
Ron Goninan
------------------------------------------------------

After reading this email you sent to Patrick McCarthy and seeing what you have done past and present on the Internet you are a "poster child" for all that is wrong with the MAs today.


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## Don Roley (May 24, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Don Roley _
> *If anything embarrasing is posted, we will see the excuse that he is trying to atone for past sins*





> _Originally posted by paihequan _
> *Yes I admit I have made some mistakes in the past and those mistakes have been addressed with the person or persons they concerned and have been resolved. I, like you, need and am working on a few things myself.*



I can't read the future, but I can read e-budo and see a pattern of behavior.

If perhaps this time you are truely trying to reform your ways, you may want to take some advice.  A lot of people would perhaps be more willing to forgive your past behavior if you showed an honest effort to change your ways and showed some sort of remorse for what you had done in the past with _your actions_ instead of what seems to be just lip service.

After all the trouble you now say you need to atone for that happened because of your internet presence, I would think that you should be as scared of getting on line as an alchoholic would of taking a job as a bartender. The world really does not need another person on the internet. If I were in your position, I would consider just getting off line for a good long time to get away from the whole problem. The world will survive without you and the time alone will allow you to think without distractions and temptaitions to return to your old behavior.

You admit that you did wrong. You do not seem to act very reformed. Old habits die hard, but if you truelly are trying to reform you need to make a bigger effort before many of us will even start to take what you say seriously. So if you admit what RyuShiKan says is true, then do not be mad when he brings it up but rather redoule your efforts to make amends to the world. After the hell that went on at e-budo, you really have to expect people to remember and look at you like you have not reformed. You have to show that you are reformed, and to do that you need to acknowledge what you have done and take responsibility for it.

So accept that RyuShiKan will bring up your past. It happened and people have a right to know what you did before they make a judgement about you. You need to prove that you know you did bad, but are willing to break with your past behavior and prove with your actions that you have changed.


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## chufeng (May 24, 2003)

> Such activities have included making pseudonym e-mail addresses in order to praise myself and criticize you, deliberately plagiarize your copyrighted material and present it as if it was my own, undermining your enviable reputation, and fabricating a history that did not accurately reflect my true martial arts background



...an insult to those junior students out there busting there butts to achieve some level of proficiency...Give me an honest hard working kyu-ranked student anyday rather than one who lives in a fantasy world and, because the knowledge is lacking, can actually cause injury by improper instruction...

Excuse me but I think I'm going to...:barf: 

My final word on this, honest.

chufeng


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## John Bishop (May 24, 2003)

I guess you could always drop all the website advertizing, self promoting, and other gratuitous crap.  And then actually become a student, train hard, and earn some legitmate rank.  
But, I guess that sounds like too much work.


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## RyuShiKan (May 24, 2003)

> _Originally posted by John Bishop _
> *I guess you could always drop all the website advertizing, self promoting, and other gratuitous crap.  And then actually become a student, train hard, and earn some legitmate rank.
> But, I guess that sounds like too much work. *



Wise wordshowever, people that keep their cake hole shut study and train hard for years never get the fame and fortune  that Ron so badly craves.


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## paihequan (May 24, 2003)

To reply,

Regardless of your tactics Robert, I will not engage in a childish and petty "pissing match" with you. As stated I respect your right to your opinions and will not engage in politics.

As for myself, my actions in the past, I fully admit that I have made some mistakes. Yeah I did copy some ideas from another web site but have since changed it all. I have had discussions with the owner of the site and the matter has been rectified and we have simply moved on.I have addressed these matters with those it concerns directly. The outcome of those matters has been agreed upon and the subject agreed closed by both parties. It is of no concern to you as at no time on this board did I raise the subject of rank or the matters you write about. Currently though I claim no rank. As such I view your current argument as null and void.

I prefer to judge someone on floor and not by the belt they wear around their waist or the Menjo they have hanging on the wall.

For whatever it may be worth I no longer post or frequent the "Vital Point" board although I'm sure it's owner would appreciate you giving it advertisement on Martial Talk! 

Sir at no time have I directly engaged in attacking you or attempted to vilify you on this dicsussion board. I have in fact answered your posts as shown above. That being so I consider this matter over and done with. I will continue to post on other subjects with due respect to all and shall not, no matter how hard you try, respond in such a negative manner as displayed by yourself.

*Mr. Bishop* Thank you for your post, In fact I have removed any such references to rank, title etc from our web site. In addition, I have myself linked up with a Instructor of the Master Huang Sheng-Shyan lineage for training of myself and those who choose to study with me. Master Huang Sheng-Shyan also learnt Fujian White Crane directly from Xie Zhong Xiang (Ryuruko).

Yours most cordially


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## arnisador (May 24, 2003)

It seems that the specifics of *paihequan*'s background have been covered. We encourage everyone to return to more general issues. MartialTalk is for the friendly discussion of the martial _arts_, not martial _artists_.

-Arnisador
-MT Admin-


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## paihequan (May 24, 2003)

Sir, I agree and hope that others will comply with your suggestion.

Regards,


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## Matt Stone (May 24, 2003)

I wonder how long it will take for _this_ thread to be locked down...  I have seen more threads locked in the past week than in the last several months combined.

*Paihequan* - 

While I work in criminal prosecution, and the ongoing theme in US Law seems to be one of having certain offenses following you the rest of your days, I have also worked in prosecution long enough to develop the defense attitude of wanting to see someone be able to move past their misdeeds and move forward toward better things.  I'd be a hypocrite of the highest magnitude if I failed to extend that opportunity to you...

I haven't attacked you (that I'm aware of) on this issue, and I don't plan to.  Others that have renounced their former questionable activities I have allowed every chance to prove the depth of their reformation.  I extend that same chance to you as well.

Unfortunately, however, you will carry the stigma of your past behavior until you accumulate enough "good deeds" to camoflauge the things you did that caused so many folks to take issue with you in the first place.  I look forward to your contributions here on MT.  Only your comments and deeds will help to erase your past.  Arguments on your behalf, defending your past, etc., won't.

I hope you are able to put it all behind you some day.

Gambarimasu.
:asian:


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## Don Roley (May 24, 2003)

Paihequan,
If you truelly wish to reform, instead of just giving lip service, I think a good start would be to cease with the nasty comments about others like RyuShiKan. A man who has done the things you have done, and been the center of hell in the Karate section of e-budo, should not try to gain the moral high ground with comments of how you will not "lower" yourself to others levels.

It was less than three weeks after you posted a letter of apology before you started setting off alarms with similar behavior as to what caused problems in the past. I do not think it unusual for people to doubt your sincerity given your past performance. It is not ancient history to be forgotten, it is less time than you can usually check out a book form the library. You have still to prove yourself and can not expect us to open our arms so soon after all you have done. Saying "getover it" and such just gives us the impression that you do not want to deal with the matter and just get on with your past behavior, especially when you pop up in a place that was not aware of you until RyuShiKan blew the whistle.

If you admit you know nothing signifigent in the martial arts and have done wrong, then there will be less friction. But if you try to speak like an expert _again_ I would not be surprised if RyuShiKan posts that letter again. His tone may be harsh, but you are the one with the history of falsifying claims and experiences, setting up false IDs to praise yourself, plagerism, etc. You have caused a lot of people trouble, so you will have to earn trust in people who do not expect it when they look at your history. 

But if you are sincere, then I hope your actions will reflect it and you will not give RyuShiKan or others the chance to jump up and point out how they were right about you. I have read your past posts and have to say, I kind of doubt you are being serious. I expect more trouble as you repeat all the disruptive behavior you have engaged in the past. 

Please prove me wrong on this point with your ACTIONS.


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## paihequan (May 25, 2003)

*Yiliquan1* :

Thank you for your post.


*Don Roley* Sir, I have admitted to past mistakes and have addressed it with those it actually concerned. Those who it concerned have stated that the matter is closed. That's good enough for me. As for RyuShiKan (Robert) I have at no time attacked him on this board but rather have treated him with respect despite his attitudes and attacks upon myself. I stand by what I said before and that is I will not be drawn into a slanging match with him nor any other individual on Martial Talk, no need for it. If that is not "moving on" I don't know what is. 

At no time have I came on to this board acting as an "expert" (whatever that may be!) nor will I. I am simply here to join in some of the interesting discussion taking place and that is what I intend to do when ever the opportunity arises regardless of the negative attitudes thrown at me.

I am simply trying to be respectful to all and hope for the very same values in return.


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## Don Roley (May 25, 2003)

> _Originally posted by paihequan _
> *
> Don Roley Sir, I have admitted to past mistakes and have addressed it with those it actually concerned. Those who it concerned have stated that the matter is closed. That's good enough for me.*



It would have been better if you had discussed what you had done instead of having it revealed by RyuShiKan, whom you then started making digs at. It also would have been better had you been willing to talk about it rather than trying to portray it as old news that should be forgotten. You did a great amount of damge, and the only things that you seem to have done is correct the things you were caught on and written a single letter. Two weeks later, you are on another board and the natural suspicion is that you were testing the waters before you renewed your behavior.

Now that we know what went on, maybe you can earn some respect despite what went on before. Just remember that your actions are suspect based on past experience. That may be hard to live with, but that is the truth.



> _Originally posted by paihequan _
> *As for RyuShiKan (Robert) I have at no time attacked him on this board but rather have treated him with respect despite his attitudes and attacks upon myself. I stand by what I said before and that is I will not be drawn into a slanging match with him nor any other individual on Martial Talk, no need for it. If that is not "moving on" I don't know what is. *



Moving on is making a honest effort to reform your past mistakes and atone for the harm you have done. RyuShiKan has been harsh in what he says about you, but it has been accurate. You have responded not with remorsefull acceptence, but in sarcastism and digs at him. Please stop your disruptive behavior. If he says that you are a liar, it is because you have shown a pattern of lying in the past. Accept it and move on.



> _Originally posted by paihequan _
> *At no time have I came on to this board acting as an "expert" (whatever that may be!) nor will I. I am simply here to join in some of the interesting discussion taking place and that is what I intend to do when ever the opportunity arises regardless of the negative attitudes thrown at me.
> 
> I am simply trying to be respectful to all and hope for the very same values in return. *



Respect must be earned, especially after what you have admitted to. You will recieve negative attitude, but that is something you must accept and be ready to prove that you have reformed. If you respond with snarls to people that point out that you did wrong, you will only give the impression that you don't really want to reform, only continue with your actions.

So please, no subtle digs about being pulled into a slagging match, no comments about how RyuShiKan is not posting on other sites or anything like that. Please show respect and understand that with all the karma you carry, people will not treat you with a lot of trust. If you can earn it back, great. But do not expect it as a given. I hope you really are trying to change this time.


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## RyuShiKan (May 25, 2003)

> _Originally posted by paihequan _
> *Geez all this because I posted a link to a web site *



No, all this  is because of your devious actions over the last decade.




> _Originally posted by paihequan _
> *It's "old news" at best and long since dealt with on other discussion forums.
> *



Old news???
I dont get it..is that a joke?
That email was sent May 03, 2003 12:14 PM.





> _Originally posted by paihequan _
> *To reply,
> 
> Regardless of your tactics Robert.........*



No tactics involved.
I was merely putting forth factual evidence of your less than exemplary, not so distant past..in fact it hasnt even been a month since you fessed up to your little shenanigans. 
All you have put up is your opinion about me which quite frankly doesnt seem to hold much weight. I know you like playing the victim when people find out the little nasty bits of business you have been up to.it goes around and around then you claim you are going to turn over a new leaf but never do.




> _Originally posted by paihequan _
> * As for myself, my actions in the past, I fully admit that I have made some mistakes. Yeah I did copy some ideas from another web site but have since changed it all. I have had discussions with the owner of the site and the matter has been rectified and we have simply moved on.I have addressed these matters with those it concerns directly. The outcome of those matters has been agreed upon and the subject agreed closed by both parties. It is of no concern to you as at no time on this board did I raise the subject of rank or the matters you write about. Currently though I claim no rank. As such I view your current argument as null and void. *




I am amazed you down play your despicable conduct as if you were caught jay walking or got a parking ticket.
You claim to have students and that makes you a teacher for Gods sake!
Is this the conduct of someone who is to impart any sort of martial knowledge or moral conduct for using said art?




> _Originally posted by paihequan _
> * I prefer to judge someone on floor and not by the belt they wear around their waist or the Menjo they have hanging on the wall. *



Is that some sort of disguised challenge?





> _Originally posted by paihequan _
> * I will not engage in a childish and petty "pissing match" with you. *



There is nothing childish about this Ron.
What you did to get this infamy is childish but warning others about you is a public service!

Like Elvis said:

"A little less talk and a little more action"

That is what is required of you Ron before people can even entertain the thought of taking you seriously about your claims to have turned over a new leaf.


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## RyuShiKan (May 25, 2003)

Ron, 
It seems that promise to turn over a new leaf has already been broken. Man! It hasn't even been a month! That's gotta be a record for you Ron.

I submit this from your own BBs that you posted..........note the date of the post on this page:
http://www.aimoo.com/forum/postview...=1&start=21&CategoryID=168798&ThreadID=705380
(by the way......I emailed that page to myself just in case you decide to change it after reading this)

	Date Posted: 05/25/2003 11:59 AM 	 	 	 	 	 	 	 	 	 

 Tony:* To answer, I was with Yabiku Sensei for around 9 or so years,* communicating in person and spending some time training with him on Okinawa. Yabiku-san is an interesting character. Some say he is only a "Taxi Driver", that his ranks are not legitimate but I prefer to judge someone on floor and not by the belt they wear around their waist or the Menjo they have hanging on the wall.The training itself was very relaxed and informal, no uniforms or belts just Kata and Bunkai for 7 hours a day which was then followed by a visit to Okinawan cultural sights of interest as I believe he was very proud of his culture.He is a hard trainer, lots of repitition and guidance, yet open, relaxed and friendly. He has and openly admits  to adding of himself to that which he does and I respect that in a person.As for the Okinawan Culture section, all you would have to do is simply moderate the discussion that may take place, answer some questions or make some posts. I'll wait for your decision before going ahead with it.Regards, Ron Goninan KOBGK Paihequan Wuyangkuan International

____________________________________________

And now we can see the "real" Ron Goninan........
This is the letter you wrote to Patrick McCarthy..........note the training time with Yabiku..........one day wasn't it?

Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2003 12:14 PM

To Mr. Patrick McCarthy,
Please find enclosed my sincere letter of personal apology for the years of slander, underhanded behaviour and plagiarizing your copyrighted work. 
Having long suffered a lack of self-esteem, I have always wanted to be something I was not. An inflated ego fueled my ambition to seek out the kind of mail-order recognition that I could easily use to establish a guise of importance, made me feel important. Coming from a small community in country NSW, this worked particularly well and made me appear as if I were a big fish in a small bowl. Jumping from style to style over the years presented an opportunity for me to misrepresent my actual experience with each new instructor I met. So used to this did I become that I even began to believe it myself. Writing articles for martial arts magazines helped to generate a little more publicity, which not only solidified my opinion of myself it also gave me another way with which to accredited myself. My martial arts studies have been both diverse and dotted with false claims of outlandish rank from un-credible sources. I actually purchased a *Soke* rank from Rod Sarconoski's Juko-kai for $1500,* and then several years later accepted an 8th dan Hanshi license from a complete charlatan in Okinawa named Takaya Yabiku, after only ever training with him once.* It's probably of little interest to you, but this long and lonely road has finally caught up to me and I am now choosing to expose all, in an effort to escape the enormous chain anxiety that is negatively effecting every aspect of the life I truly want to live. 
I have knowingly carried out self-aggrandizing, unscrupulous and underhanded activities all in an effort to establish a reputation for myself, undermine your good name and protect my untenable background. I now regret this greatly. Such activities have included making pseudonym e-mail addresses in order to praise myself and criticize you, deliberately plagiarize your copyrighted material and present it as if it was my own, undermining your enviable reputation, and fabricating a history that did not accurately reflect my true martial arts background. 
I would like it to be known that I am renouncing all the derogatory comments that I have either said or written about you. It was just plain wrong and, as untrustworthy as I have been in the past, I am now appealing to your compassion to forgive me for my reprehensible actions. 
In truth, I am a great admirer or your accomplishments within the field of the martial arts and have, like so many others, been inspired by your work. I greatly admire your way of doing things, your research, the way you write, and the way in which you operate your organization. You've really had more of an influence on me then you may know. In a great many ways I have set you as a personal idol of mine. I idolized your work and the respect that was afforded to you and often wished to "be just like you." I guess that this is fairly evident. The problem was the way that I (incorrectly) set about to model my own life on yourself and your own research. 
It is my sincere hope and desire that you will accept my apology. Whatever hardships I am presently undergoing are purely the results of my own doing and my family have suffered enough shame and heartbreak as a result of my deplorable actions. I beg that you accept this and allow me the opportunity to work towards coming clean and "making it right again," without the threat of litigation looming over my head. 
Sincerely, 
Ron Goninan
___________________________________________

So was it 9 years or a day?

Maybe Yabiku whacked you on the head so hard it made it feel like 9 years!:rofl:


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## Matt Stone (May 25, 2003)

Curiouser and curiouser...


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## paihequan (May 25, 2003)

Robert, 

To answer briefly I was introduced to Yabiku by Mr. McCarthy by means of an intoduction letter and yes spent around 9 or so years in communications with him leading up to a visit to Okinawa for two weeks training in October 1996. This was to be the only time that I personally trained with Mr. Yabiku. The views as posted on the "Aimoo" board were mine based upon my actual experiences whilst on Okinawa.

I no longer have any connection nor communications with Yabiku Sensei due to his insistence on money over the art and other factors such as his actions in this regards. Nor do I teach any aspect of that he taught me.

As for the rank he awarded me, as stated previously, I claim no rank.

As for the matter with Mr. McCarthy, I am trying to keep to my word that the matter is closed and move onwards as was agreed to by both parties.


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## paihequan (May 25, 2003)

*Mr. Roley* I thank you for your words of advice but I sadly suspect and with all due respect that RyuShiKan will not allow me to move onwards but will continually post regarding my past mistakes. 

I will continue to answer the questions put to me in a respectful manner and hope that others will allow me the opportunity to join in the discussions taking place in an open and friendly manner.


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## paihequan (May 25, 2003)

I have had a fairly interesting background in the area of the martial arts commencing in January 1970 in the art of Shotokan Karatedo through to the time spent with Mr. Yabiku Takaya of Okinawa pursuing his Okinawan Tsuruken, Sifu Gu-Ping of Guangzhou Province, China and onwards to the present time. 

During my involvement within the martial arts I like a great many others inflicted by this thing we call the "Human Condition",  have made several mistakes which I regret and have sought to move onwards from.

I have taken a long, hard and honest look at myself and my dealings with others and to seek the opportunity to start anew with a clean slate. 

In an effort to escape the politics of this thing called the martial arts that is negatively effecting every aspect of the life I truly want to live, I consider all the ranks etc received during and up to the date of writing to be void in their importance and validity. 

With a professed aversion for claiming formal qualifications stemming from a former pursuit of them, I simply exist to teach those interested in joining with us on our pathway to the Martial Arts.

It is now my personal view that the importance of ranks only matters to those who wrap themselves in them. To me, the true quest is to be found in simply making good people, better.

Ranks, titles, these are the concerns of the martial arts "movers" and "shakers". The politicians of the arts.

I have eschewed personal titles and ranks. I've eschewed trying to place descriptions upon myself. I'll leave that to others I don't want to enter into that. I feel it's a dangerous political and ego-motivated pastime which only causes grief.

The true person involved in the martial arts does not give a rat's bum about rank and title. The true battle within the martial arts is knowing oneself and whence you have came. It's about how you treat people in everyday life.

A true master of the martial arts does not have to proclaim it to the world on web sites, in books and publications or to just about anyone who will listen!

A true master is someone who you subconsciously feel drawn to, a person who is open, honest and friendly towards others, who treats others with respect. This is a true master.

One of  thing my experiences within the martial arts world have taught me is that the martial arts world is plagued by ego-motivated people,  those spurred onwards by ambitious deportment and personal jealousies, and those seeking political and commercial gain. As one who has made his fair share of mistakes, I want no part of this type of martial arts world.

Many martial arts styles were formulated to deal with the social injustices faced of the time. In this respect, Crane-Fist is no different from other forms of Martial Art. However, we are dealing with the mind of the individual and in turn training our own heart mind and body.

After some 31 plus years within the martial arts, I have changed my view of the arts from being one of strictly self-defence to one that encourages life-protection; ways in which to develop and cultivate the mind and body as a means of contributing to society as a whole. Our Paihequan provides us with choices in life, its aim is to foster understanding. In times of dire need, there can be a need to respond violently, brutally and with intent to inflict serious harm to another. However it needs to be done without malice and as dispassionately as one can having made the decision that all other options are not viable.

The end result of this understanding I speak of is that we can develop non-violent responses to the varying forms of aggression, It is only via non-violent action that aggression can and will be overcome. Every situation we face in life has its own energy. The manner in which you deal with t5his energy is of vital importance. Understanding the energies that effect our lives helps us to understand ourselves and understanding ourselves means that we can understand one of the founding principles of the martial arts  compassion.

We seek to assist in guiding you on a path that you can use to create your own future within the martial arts. 

The KOBGK Paihequan International shall remain a small, non-profit, non-commercial association of people seeking something more from their involvement within the martial arts. It will remain as an association for people, not "martial artists.

I hope to continue to be a loving husband and father to my wife and children while actively pursuing the martial arts ideal with renewed vigor and integrity in all that I undertake from this moment forth.

It is my sincere aim to continue to teach the martial arts unfettered by the politics, ego and other like-distractions normally associated with the martial arts world.


Sincerely,


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## Matt Stone (May 25, 2003)

That's taken straight from your website, isn't it?

Gambarimasu.
:asian:


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## paihequan (May 25, 2003)

Yiliquan1:

Yes but I thought it relevant. I hope it does not cause any offence.


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## chufeng (May 25, 2003)

> A true master of the martial arts does not have to proclaim it to the world on web sites



Is this a zen koan?  

chufeng


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## Bob Hubbard (May 26, 2003)

*MartialTalk Policy updates and changes:*

In the past few weeks several things have happened on this board that have caused concerns among both the staff and our members. These concerns cover a wide range of things. This is our attempt to address them.

First, a point of history.

MartialTalk.com was originally setup in August of 2001 to serve as a discussion forum for a regional web portal. It was never in my wildest dreams that it would be as popular as it is, and go truly world wide. In fact, it has long since outgrown and absorbed its parent site.

MartialTalk is for the friendly discussion of martial arts. The key here is this exact phase. My mental image of MartialTalk is a big living room, everyone relaxing with a cool beverage, chatting about their arts, swapping stories, news, techniques and info.

It is not a place to puff your chest, flex your muscles, get on the soapbox and rabble rouse. Nor is it the place to expose your dirty laundry, spread rumors and lies, stab in the back, and run smear campaigns.

It is not the place for egos, attitudes and agendas. 

We have seen the following problems over the recent few weeks flare up greatly. It is our growing concern that left unchecked, these issues will seriously damage, possibly destroy all the hard work we have all put into this site.


*1: Off Topic posts, and major thread drift.*
We have specific forums for specific areas. Please, use them. As our post count climbs higher, it is harder and harder for our staff to keep up with policing everything. We need your active- help. Please post on topic to each thread. If it starts to drift, help steer it back on track by a: -politely- bringing up the original topic and b: starting a new thread for the tangent.


*2: Fraud Busting.*
Every art has its frauds, fakers, and plain misguided folks. Some of them are obvious, some are not. The purpose of MartialTalk is not- to be the place thats the master list of who is legit and who is not. We have -one- forum target at the Bad Budo idea. If you have specific information on such things, post it there. The constant jumping from forum to forum and thread to thread of this desire by several well meaning folks to cleanse the arts and others who constantly feel the need to defend from attacks that often times arent even there is causing us to lock down an excessive number of threads. This cannot be allowed to continue.

Effective immediately, fraud busting outside of the realm of the Bad Budo forum will result in administrative actions against those involved when it disrupts the smooth operation of this forum. If you have concerns about someones rank/status it is to be handled via PM or email. You may post the results of that research in the Bad Budo forum if warranted. Educated martial artists will see the fraud for what he/she is and should just ignore them. This board was set up for friendly discussion of martial arts, not as a soapbox for people's personal crusades.

If you have questions, concerns, etc about someone or their 'qualifications', post it in the 'Bad Budo' forum and address it there -within our guidelines-. Interrogator type posts will not be tolerated any further. Post your questions, and give the others time to answer. The non-responsivness of an individual should be enough. 


*3: Lack of respect or tolerance for differing opinions.*
Frankly, we are tired of the arguments about gender, race, nationality, etc. We are tired of those supposedly educated, experienced, trained martial artists, who tend to regress to school yard bully mentalities and tactics.

Effective immediately, we will begin removing those members who disrupt the smooth operation of this forum. If you cannot follow our rules, if you cannot leave your attitude at the door, we do not want you here. 

There is a difference between a debate and an argument. We welcome debate, as long as it is within our posted guidelines. Take your argument and flames elsewhere. 

The harassment of members, the hiding behind the youre not an XXX so you wouldnt understand, the you master sucks, etc. stuff will stop. Now. I dont care if he thinks hes a Sith-Lord and you know he is nuts. It will cease, immediately.


*4: Adult Content / profanity*
Recently, many posts have skirted the line on mature content. Let me be very specific. If its of a sexual nature it is probably too far. If you cant say it with out cursing like a truck driver, it is probably too far. If you have to reedit your post as its got lots of *** in it, its too far, and if you change all the *** stuff so that your words mostly show up, you will be booted. Circumventing the filters is a suspendable offense, and will be more strongly enforced in the future. We have at least a 5-10% membership under the age of 14. 


*5: The General forum is not the everything goes here forum.*
If it does not involve martial arts, it goes in the locker room, unless it is a joke, in which case it goes in the humor forum. If you need help, post it in the support forum, not buried 50 posts deep in a thread wondering why we don't reply.



We are working to find ways to resolve the issues that have been brought to our attention. This will take time, and it will require the assistance of our members. 1500 members, 10 mods. Theres a lot more members than staff.


This forum and its features is here for your use and enjoyment. It is up to you on how you behave here. You can treat it as a prized resource, or a toilet. Those who do the latter will rapidly be removed.


My staff and I are your hosts. You are all our guests. We expect you to behave as such. We will remove at our discretion any and all those who we feel are not behaving by our rules. This will be done regardless of rank, title, previous contribution or political alignment. If you cannot follow our rules, the door is there. Dont let it hit you in the *** on your way out. We will honor ALL- remove my account requests immediately from this point on. No saves, no pauses. If you are suspended and whine, you will be banned. It is fair to ask why, but once told, take it like a grown up.

Before someone say this is singling out anyone in particular, it is not.


Any questions?


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## paihequan (May 26, 2003)

*Mr Hubbard* 

Thank you for your post. For whatever it may be worth I agree totally with ALL the matters and rules you raised and shall adhere to same.

Thank you.


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## RyuShiKan (May 26, 2003)

> _Originally posted by paihequan _
> *Robert,
> 
> To answer briefly I was introduced to Yabiku by Mr. McCarthy by means of an intoduction letter and yes spent around 9 or so years in communications with him leading up to a visit to Okinawa for two weeks training in October 1996. *



I am fully aware of the conditions which you were introduced to Yabiku and it was my understanding from Patrick you went in eyes wide open knowing he was a dan salesman and he thought you two would hit it off.





> _Originally posted by paihequan _
> *As for the rank he awarded me, as stated previously, I claim no rank.
> *



Whatever Ronyou can twist that any way you choosebut most people in Okinawa and many foreigners know rank from Yabiku is a joke.and those that take his rank seriously are just as big a joke.

Did you get one of Yabikus Hohan Soken dan ranks?
I know a few folks that bought them.


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## paihequan (May 26, 2003)

Robert,

I could post Mr. McCarthy's letter to me (17.09.93)  praising Mr. Yabiku but that would be entering into politics which I have vowed to avoid. I was unaware of the claims you made at this time. It is a long dead issue.

I only learnt about the "Soken Certificates" after leaving Mr. Yabiku and no I don't have one.

As per the moderators request and rules I will not post on this subject again. I would hope that you too would respect the rules and guidelines as outlined by the Moderator:

Please see rules 1/. , 2/. & 5 posted by Mr. Hubbard.

Your's respectfully


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## RyuShiKan (May 26, 2003)

> _Originally posted by paihequan _
> *Robert,
> 
> I could post Mr. McCarthy's letter to me (17.09.93)  praising Mr. Yabiku but that would be entering into politics which I have vowed to avoid. I was unaware of the claims you made at this time.
> *



Thanks, but I've already seen a copy.


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## paihequan (May 26, 2003)

Great. Perhaps you'd care to post it?

As stated the matter and discussion is now closed in complience with the moderators requests. My e-mail is
tsuruken@austarnet.com.au and auscrane@hotmail.com should you wish to discuss the matter further.

All the best

:asian:


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## RyuShiKan (May 26, 2003)

> _Originally posted by paihequan _
> *
> As per the moderators request and rules I will not post on this subject again. *




I see..............

Anyway, I said I have seen a copy, I don't own a copy.


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