# Greetings and Sil lim tao question



## SOD-WC (Aug 20, 2016)

Hi everyone, been stalking this forum for a good month or two and its been awesome, collectively everyone here so much knowleadge and different opinions as well. So i finally decided to join, but unfortunately i cannot contribute much (hence my hesitations to sign up) as I've only started about two months of WC.

I've been praticing sil lim tao on a daily basis, and notice sometimes i will get lower back pains (not major pain, but builds up). Im relatively healthy, just wondering is this one of those things that goes away like the calf/knee pain when you get better, or am i doing it wrong!?!?!?!
Any comment would be helpful, and thanks in advance.


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## Juany118 (Aug 20, 2016)

SOD-WC said:


> Hi everyone, been stalking this forum for a good month or two and its been awesome, collectively everyone here so much knowleadge and different opinions as well. So i finally decided to join, but unfortunately i cannot contribute much (hence my hesitations to sign up) as I've only started about two months of WC.
> 
> I've been praticing sil lim tao on a daily basis, and notice sometimes i will get lower back pains (not major pain, but builds up). Im relatively healthy, just wondering is this one of those things that goes away like the calf/knee pain when you get better, or am i doing it wrong!?!?!?!
> Any comment would be helpful, and thanks in advance.



Hi and welcome!!!!  Without seeing you do it one question.  Have you been using a video of SLT or did you learn it in a school where an instructor could critique your form.  I ask this for only one reason.  I have seen new practitioners over exaggerate the pelvic tilt.  This, with the now exaggerated tilt of the upper body can create what some refer to as the "dreaded Wing Chun hunch." This could cause in some people excess strain in the lower back.


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## Danny T (Aug 20, 2016)

Juany118 said:


> Hi and welcome!!!!  Without seeing you do it one question.  Have you been using a video of SLT or did you learn it in a school where an instructor could critique your form.  I ask this for only one reason.  I have seen new practitioners over exaggerate the pelvic tilt.  This, with the now exaggerated tilt of the upper body can create what some refer to as the "dreaded Wing Chun hunch." This could cause in some people excess strain in the lower back.


^^^^^^ This is my first opinion as well having no other information.


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## SOD-WC (Aug 20, 2016)

Thanks juany and danny, I've been training in a school for 2 months. But i think you guys are right!! When doing the form i do indeed title my pelvis forward to "aling" my spine (i read/saw somewhere on the internet), which now ill try and lossen up on.
In "theroy" is my spine suppose to be perpendicular (eg as like the 12 o'clock hand) to the floor or is it ok to have a slight lean (1 o'clock)?


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## Kung Fu Wang (Aug 20, 2016)

SOD-WC said:


> i will get lower back pains ...


My only suggestion is stretching, stretching, and still stretching.


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## Juany118 (Aug 20, 2016)

SOD-WC said:


> Thanks juany and danny, I've been training in a school for 2 months. But i think you guys are right!! When doing the form i do indeed title my pelvis forward to "aling" my spine (i read/saw somewhere on the internet), which now ill try and lossen up on.
> In "theroy" is my spine suppose to be perpendicular (eg as like the 12 o'clock hand) to the floor or is it ok to have a slight lean (1 o'clock)?



In my lineage you are simply aligning your spine with the ground.  Welcome to the club .


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## yak sao (Aug 20, 2016)

The stance feels so unnatural at first but keep at it. The day will come when you just sink into it and it will feel very natural.


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## wckf92 (Aug 20, 2016)

SOD-WC said:


> Hi everyone, been stalking this forum for a good month or two and its been awesome, collectively everyone here so much knowleadge and different opinions as well. So i finally decided to join, but unfortunately i cannot contribute much (hence my hesitations to sign up) as I've only started about two months of WC.
> 
> I've been praticing sil lim tao on a daily basis, and notice sometimes i will get lower back pains (not major pain, but builds up). Im relatively healthy, just wondering is this one of those things that goes away like the calf/knee pain when you get better, or am i doing it wrong!?!?!?!
> Any comment would be helpful, and thanks in advance.


Welcome SOD-WC!
You've received some responses already; but I'd just like to point out that your Sifu/Instructor will be or should be your primary source of feedback to any questions you have. So, before you go making adjustments based on input received here, keep in mind your particular 'flavor' of WC may want or require your hips and shoulders to be in a specific angle/configuration. And, as Yak said...in the early months of learning WC...your body will go thru a period of adjustment. 
Best of luck to you! 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk


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## Xue Sheng (Aug 20, 2016)

SOD-WC said:


> Hi everyone, been stalking this forum for a good month or two and its been awesome, collectively everyone here so much knowleadge and different opinions as well. So i finally decided to join, but unfortunately i cannot contribute much (hence my hesitations to sign up) as I've only started about two months of WC.
> 
> I've been praticing sil lim tao on a daily basis, and notice sometimes i will get lower back pains (not major pain, but builds up). Im relatively healthy, just wondering is this one of those things that goes away like the calf/knee pain when you get better, or am i doing it wrong!?!?!?!
> Any comment would be helpful, and thanks in advance.



Joint pain, talk to your teacher.


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## anerlich (Aug 21, 2016)

It will take your body a little while to adjust to the stance. That's normal.

What I notice with many beginner students is they take the stance to be some sort of a challenge, and they contort and tense themselves into uncomfortable and posturally poor positions because they think, well, "this is Kung Fu and we're supposed to train hard, so this should feel like I'm working hard." Like, yes, you should add enough of a a pelvic tilt for good postural alignment, but no, you shouldn't EXAGGERATE a pelvic tilt by pushing the pelvic tilt to the limits of your flexibility.

The stance should be comfortable and as much as possible of the weight taken by good postural alignment and tendons and ligaments rather than flexed muscles.



Kung Fu Wang said:


> My only suggestion is stretching, stretching, and still stretching.



Stretching is only part of the solution. You should look at joint mobility exercises as well, especially for the spine and hips. maxwellsc.com has some good, inexpensive video programs. You might benefit from some moderate strength training as well.
.
Talk to your teacher about joint pain? Yes. But if pain persists and your teacher is not a physical therapist or similar, consider consulting such a professional. Not all Kung Fu teachers are qualified to provide health advice.


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## Juany118 (Aug 21, 2016)

anerlich said:


> It will take your body a little while to adjust to the stance. That's normal.
> 
> What I notice with many beginner students is they take the stance to be some sort of a challenge, and they contort and tense themselves into uncomfortable and posturally poor positions because they think, well, "this is Kung Fu and we're supposed to train hard, so this should feel like I'm working hard." Like, yes, you should add enough of a a pelvic tilt for good postural alignment, but no, you shouldn't EXAGGERATE a pelvic tilt by pushing the pelvic tilt to the limits of your flexibility.
> 
> ...



Yep I tell people "pelvic tilt, not thrust.  We are doing Wing Chun not the... "


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## SOD-WC (Aug 21, 2016)

Thanks everyone, ill continue to train and ask my sifu for guidance. You guys have all given me advice that i could not find anywhere on the net, its given me something to be aware of during training. 
Hopefully in ten yrs time ill be able to do the form and it'll feel natural and ill be back to give advice to beginners like everyone else here


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## Pat M (Aug 22, 2016)

SOD-WC said:


> Hi everyone, been stalking this forum for a good month or two and its been awesome, collectively everyone here so much knowleadge and different opinions as well. So i finally decided to join, but unfortunately i cannot contribute much (hence my hesitations to sign up) as I've only started about two months of WC.
> 
> I've been praticing sil lim tao on a daily basis, and notice sometimes i will get lower back pains (not major pain, but builds up). Im relatively healthy, just wondering is this one of those things that goes away like the calf/knee pain when you get better, or am i doing it wrong!?!?!?!
> Any comment would be helpful, and thanks in advance.



Hey SOD-WC,

Welcome, it looks like you have good responses and yes number one should be to talk to your instructor / Sifu.
Where are you in Australia?


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## SOD-WC (Aug 22, 2016)

Pat M said:


> Hey SOD-WC,
> 
> Welcome, it looks like you have good responses and yes number one should be to talk to your instructor / Sifu.
> Where are you in Australia?



Hi pat, im in Australia Sydney. Noticed you are from Brisbane?


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## Tames D (Aug 22, 2016)

Welcome.


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## Parky (Aug 23, 2016)

Who is your sifu in Aussie land?


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## SOD-WC (Aug 23, 2016)

Parky said:


> Who is your sifu in Aussie land?


Hi parky, prefer not to say but its around the Sydney cbd. There is only a few schools around here , you can work it out.
Which country are you from?


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## Parky (Aug 24, 2016)

Well, I saw a couple schools there in Sydney I would gladly join and one not so much. Not sure which one you chose. Doesn't matter, was just curious. I live in the Midwestern United States. Welcome to the world of Wing Chun, two months in. May your stay be a long and pleasant one! What made you choose Wing Chun?


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## SOD-WC (Aug 24, 2016)

Parky said:


> Well, I saw a couple schools there in Sydney I would gladly join and one not so much. Not sure which one you chose. Doesn't matter, was just curious. I live in the Midwestern United States. Welcome to the world of Wing Chun, two months in. May your stay be a long and pleasant one! What made you choose Wing Chun?


Intresting have you lived in Australia before, you seem to know a bit? Hopefully the one you didnt want to join is the one im not at lol. 
I've always been interested in Wing chun, ive never been a tough person, and didnt feel the other arts suit me, WC is a soft art and seems to suit me better, I've known about it way back,but im in my early 30s, and finally decided to do something about it, so a bit of a late start. But with enough training hopefully ill make up for lost time, dont plan to quit WC, I've waited this long.


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## Parky (Aug 24, 2016)

SOD-WC said:


> Intresting have you lived in Australia before, you seem to know a bit? Hopefully the one you didnt want to join is the one im not at lol.
> I've always been interested in Wing chun, ive never been a tough person, and didnt feel the other arts suit me, WC is a soft art and seems to suit me better, I've known about it way back,but im in my early 30s, and finally decided to do something about it, so a bit of a late start. But with enough training hopefully ill make up for lost time, dont plan to quit WC, I've waited this long.


No, I've never even been to Australia. I started WC in 1994. I trace my WC lineage thru Chu Shong Tin and I know of some good teachers in that lineage In Aussie-land. I've experienced crappy instruction and phenomenal instruction in WC. There's the copycat version where you copy sifu with no understanding of why you do what you do. I did that for 5 years. Then there's the more bio mechanical approach. I dabbled with that for years. That can be very effective. And there's the soft internal approach that most people poo poo, unless they're on the receiving end of it. These are the methods I've been exposed too. Everyone chases their own flavor. I would give one piece of advice, stay away from copycat crap. If you can't ask sifu questions and get real answers, or if his answers are, 'that's how I was taught, I don't know what it's for', I would do yourself a favor and move on. You can waste years of training, getting nowhere. Of course opinions vary...just my 2 cents.


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## SOD-WC (Aug 24, 2016)

Parky said:


> No, I've never even been to Australia. I started WC in 1994. I trace my WC lineage thru Chu Shong Tin and I know of some good teachers in that lineage In Aussie-land. I've experienced crappy instruction and phenomenal instruction in WC. There's the copycat version where you copy sifu with no understanding of why you do what you do. I did that for 5 years. Then there's the more bio mechanical approach. I dabbled with that for years. That can be very effective. And there's the soft internal approach that most people poo poo, unless they're on the receiving end of it. These are the methods I've been exposed too. Everyone chases their own flavor. I would give one piece of advice, stay away from copycat crap. If you can't ask sifu questions and get real answers, or if his answers are, 'that's how I was taught, I don't know what it's for', I would do yourself a favor and move on. You can waste years of training, getting nowhere. Of course opinions vary...just my 2 cents.


Wow since 1994, What got you into WC and what made u stay for so long? 
Thanks for the advice, thankfully this school is not the copy cat style. We've been told many times in class if u dont know why u are doing it, u wont be using it. Our school has the soft approach its nice to know that its a level reachable but not in the near future unfortunately. So for now its sil lim tao everyday.............but not getting any small ideas yet my head is still empty


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## Pat M (Aug 25, 2016)

Hey Sod,

Any empty head is not a bad place to be.
You do need to feel not think.

I would be going here if I was in Sydney city:
Martial Arts and Self Defence | International Wing Chun Academy


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## Parky (Aug 25, 2016)

SOD-WC said:


> Wow since 1994, What got you into WC and what made u stay for so long?
> Thanks for the advice, thankfully this school is not the copy cat style. We've been told many times in class if u dont know why u are doing it, u wont be using it. Our school has the soft approach its nice to know that its a level reachable but not in the near future unfortunately. So for now its sil lim tao everyday.............but not getting any small ideas yet my head is still empty


I was a Bruce Lee fan as a kid. Always wanted to learn his mother art. First teacher laid out this pile of puzzle pieces called Wing Chun. He couldn't/wouldn't show me how they went together. I started looking for a WC teacher who could. I was like a fish with the hook set deep. It's part of my life at this point.


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## Parky (Aug 25, 2016)

Pat M said:


> Hey Sod,
> 
> Any empty head is not a bad place to be.
> You do need to feel not think.
> ...


Pat, that school would be one of my choices too. Great comment you made above. Bruce Lee, Enter the Dragon, quote 'Don't think...FEEL'. A teacher I am currently working with likes to point that one out, repeatedly. One of those profound gems in front of us the whole time.


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## SOD-WC (Aug 25, 2016)

Pat M said:


> Hey Sod,
> 
> Any empty head is not a bad place to be.
> You do need to feel not think.
> ...


Ah feel dont think  ...........ill try that, been trying to relax everything while doing the form, its so hard to achieve that. Am i needing to feel the body, energy flow and all?


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## SOD-WC (Aug 25, 2016)

Parky said:


> I was a Bruce Lee fan as a kid. Always wanted to learn his mother art. First teacher laid out this pile of puzzle pieces called Wing Chun. He couldn't/wouldn't show me how they went together. I started looking for a WC teacher who could. I was like a fish with the hook set deep. It's part of my life at this point.


I remember someone told me that if you do the first form long enough soon all the puzzle pieces will start to connect and over time more complicated connections will happen and form. 

Please tell me thats true


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## Parky (Aug 25, 2016)

SOD-WC said:


> I remember someone told me that if you do the first form long enough soon all the puzzle pieces will start to connect and over time more complicated connections will happen and form.
> 
> Please tell me thats true


I was taught SLT 3-4 different ways by several different teachers over the years. I practiced that form repeatedly for many years. Nothing magical ever happened for me, or will ever happen just by practicing the form. However, If you are taught how to relax and how to 'feel' the form and you diligently practice the form, you will begin to experience interesting things in your body...things you will only feel when you do the form. Or at least that has been my experience.


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## SOD-WC (Aug 25, 2016)

Parky said:


> I was taught SLT 3-4 different ways by several different teachers over the years. I practiced that form repeatedly for many years. Nothing magical ever happened for me, or will ever happen just by practicing the form. However, If you are taught how to relax and how to 'feel' the form and you diligently practice the form, you will begin to experience interesting things in your body...things you will only feel when you do the form. Or at least that has been my experience.


I see a long intresting journey ahead for me, its like a beginning of a life journey to discover how my body really works even though im using it everyday, such mystery yet its right right in front of my eyes. im excited!!


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## Pat M (Aug 26, 2016)

Parky said:


> Pat, that school would be one of my choices too. Great comment you made above. Bruce Lee, Enter the Dragon, quote 'Don't think...FEEL'. A teacher I am currently working with likes to point that one out, repeatedly. One of those profound gems in front of us the whole time.



Thank you for your kind comments Parky
I have never been a big fan of "if he does this - you do that", contact reflex and the non cognitive basic brain ability that enough chi sau gives you is my scene. You can't read somebodies mind but you can feel someone thinking through their arms if they are silly enough to do so.

Another quote I love although not June Fan "_Your thoughts betray you" - Star Wars Episode VI   _


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## Pat M (Aug 26, 2016)

SOD-WC said:


> I see a long interesting journey ahead for me, its like a beginning of a life journey to discover how my body really works even though I'm using it everyday, such mystery yet its right right in front of my eyes. I'm excited!!



Don't be to concerned SOD, just practice, everything takes time. The more you try the harder things get sometimes with this stuff. Try less and you will relax and it may get easier, I know it sounds ridiculous.

If you ever head up this way let me know.


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## SOD-WC (Aug 26, 2016)

Pat M said:


> Don't be to concerned SOD, just practice, everything takes time. The more you try the harder things get sometimes with this stuff. Try less and you will relax and it may get easier, I know it sounds ridiculous.
> 
> If you ever head up this way let me know.


Will PM you Pat if i ever end up in Brisbane mate. WC is full of contradictory things like the more relax the better you become and harder you hit............ OMG cant i just tense and superman punch the guy ...... maybe i should stick to Tekken or street fighter lol


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## wingchun100 (Sep 9, 2016)

SOD-WC said:


> Hi everyone, been stalking this forum for a good month or two and its been awesome, collectively everyone here so much knowleadge and different opinions as well. So i finally decided to join, but unfortunately i cannot contribute much (hence my hesitations to sign up) as I've only started about two months of WC.
> 
> I've been praticing sil lim tao on a daily basis, and notice sometimes i will get lower back pains (not major pain, but builds up). Im relatively healthy, just wondering is this one of those things that goes away like the calf/knee pain when you get better, or am i doing it wrong!?!?!?!
> Any comment would be helpful, and thanks in advance.


 

Hello and welcome! I would be interested in seeing a video of you doing SLT from the side, so we can see what is going on with the pelvis.


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