# Best FMA for learning sword arts?



## The Game (May 4, 2006)

I'm interested in various sword arts, and have read that basically the FMA is a blade family, not stick. So, if thats the case, which one would be best to train in if I want to learn sword? I've seen a few big *** Filipino swords, you know the size to make Conan drool with envy, but couldn't find any info on what system might teach them.

Sorry, can't tack on a pic, but is looked to be long, sorta blunt nosed, with a weird hook like bit on the end too.


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## Blindside (May 4, 2006)

It sounds like you are talking about a kampilan, however I couldn't tell you which FMA teach it.  

And while the kampilan is a large sword for the Phillipines, it isn't really a large sword as compared to many other cultures.

Where are you located?  It may help to have an idea so people can offer suggestions on who to go to for instruction.

Lamont


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## HKphooey (May 4, 2006)

Many of the FMA's have swords.  Some instuctors have them as part of the system and others have chosen to leave them out.  My instructor has us learn our Modern Arnis forms open handed, with knife, stick and/or sword.  The cool thing is there are so many swords (size and style).  I think it is best ot find and instructor that is know for that portion of the art. I think the sword gets dropped from many schools because of the practicality of the weapon (but the teacher may teach it privately).

Here is a website that sells them, but it is good for the pictures.
http://www.traditionalfilipinoweapons.com/


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## Tarot (May 4, 2006)

HKphooey hit a good point.  One thing to keep in mind, is that these moves are easily translated.  So even if you learn a move with a stick, that can easily be translated to doing the move with a blade.    My suggestion would be to look for a school where blade and stick work is done.  This will allow you to become comfortable with the feel of different weapons.  :asian:


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## Wes Tasker (May 4, 2006)

One thing to watch for, as already stated, is that the school teaches both and the instructor is aware of the difference between stickwork and bladework.  Even in the same system, you might find teachers who only stress stick or put more emphasis on sword.  Even though it is often said that "stickwork is the same as swordwork" in the FMA - it's not exactly true.  In using a stick, you need power and you don't have to worry about edge alignment.  When using a sword, you need smaller movements and awareness of where your edge is at (especially in blocking/counter-offensives).  If you wind up with a sword like it was a stick, you are going to get skewered or cut up by someone with tighter movements.  Conversely, if you do a real subtle movement with a stick like it was a sword, you might give your opponent splinters rather than a good whack.  Some systems have movements that seem like they were designed for swords rather than sticks or the other way around.

But to answer the original question....  Of the systems I've seen and had experience with - Pekiti Tirsia Kali, San Miguel Eskrima, and Kalis Ilustrisimo have really in-depth sword work as well as stick and other weapons.



-wes tasker


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## The Game (May 4, 2006)

Blindside said:
			
		

> It sounds like you are talking about a kampilan, however I couldn't tell you which FMA teach it.
> 
> And while the kampilan is a large sword for the Phillipines, it isn't really a large sword as compared to many other cultures.
> 
> ...


kampilan.  That was the one.  I like the lines on it, though the purpose of that hook bit escapes me.

Right now, Cleveland Ohio.  I travel a bit, so it's currently hard to get settled anywhere. But I have some flex in where I go, so, always have the chance to convince the boss to ship me someplace for a few months that'll let me play with new toys.


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## The Game (May 4, 2006)

Wes Tasker said:
			
		

> One thing to watch for, as already stated, is that the school teaches both and the instructor is aware of the difference between stickwork and bladework.  Even in the same system, you might find teachers who only stress stick or put more emphasis on sword.  Even though it is often said that "stickwork is the same as swordwork" in the FMA - it's not exactly true.  In using a stick, you need power and you don't have to worry about edge alignment.  When using a sword, you need smaller movements and awareness of where your edge is at (especially in blocking/counter-offensives).  If you wind up with a sword like it was a stick, you are going to get skewered or cut up by someone with tighter movements.  Conversely, if you do a real subtle movement with a stick like it was a sword, you might give your opponent splinters rather than a good whack.  Some systems have movements that seem like they were designed for swords rather than sticks or the other way around.
> 
> But to answer the original question....  Of the systems I've seen and had experience with - Pekiti Tirsia Kali, San Miguel Eskrima, and Kalis Ilustrisimo have really in-depth sword work as well as stick and other weapons.
> 
> ...


Pekiti Tirsia Kali, San Miguel Eskrima, and Kalis Ilustrisimo.  Thanks.  I'll do some digging.


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## The Game (May 4, 2006)

The Game said:
			
		

> Pekiti Tirsia Kali, San Miguel Eskrima, and Kalis Ilustrisimo.  Thanks.  I'll do some digging.


oh.  had another thought.  Is there any 'pure' fma sword art?  Like kendo or iaido or the like?


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## Wes Tasker (May 4, 2006)

What exactly do you mean by 'pure'?

-wes tasker


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## Mcura (May 4, 2006)

Sayoc Kali and Atienza Kali are two groups that devote much of their time to blades. Sayoc is "all blade, all the time", and tend to focus on knives, preferably carried in as many different areas of the body as possible. Atienza Kali will do knives and short swords about 15" to 21" (or however long you can carry in a coat).


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## Bob Hubbard (May 4, 2006)

Wes Tasker said:
			
		

> What exactly do you mean by 'pure'?
> 
> -wes tasker


Based on the examples, I'd guess a sword only art?  Curious about that myself, as everything I've seen does a little of everything.


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## The Game (May 4, 2006)

Bob Hubbard said:
			
		

> Based on the examples, I'd guess a sword only art?  Curious about that myself, as everything I've seen does a little of everything.


right.  I'm somewhat familiar with Japanese sword arts, but hadn't heard of any sword only FMA stuff.


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## Wes Tasker (May 4, 2006)

Nothing comes to mind...  Of course, some of the aformentioned arts can be taught with the stick as a training tool with sword being the primary focus.  To extend your example - like the shinai in Kendo.

-wes tasker


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## Black Grass (May 4, 2006)

The Game said:
			
		

> oh. had another thought. Is there any 'pure' fma sword art? Like kendo or iaido or the like?


 
Estokada or Estoque,

Based on the espada all thursts practiced with the garote (flat stick to simulate the blade) no empty hand techniques.


Vince
aka Black Grass


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## HKphooey (May 4, 2006)

Black Grass said:
			
		

> Estokada or Estoque,
> 
> Based on the espada all thursts practiced with the garote (flat stick to simulate the blade) no empty hand techniques.
> 
> ...


 
While the base and primary style is variation of Spanish swordfighting, I have come across various schools/instructors that will translate to empty hand.  But that may be their own translation of information they learned from their GM.


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## The Game (May 5, 2006)

Black Grass said:
			
		

> Estokada or Estoque,
> 
> Based on the espada all thursts practiced with the garote (flat stick to simulate the blade) no empty hand techniques.
> 
> ...


I found this: http://www.rutanoestokada.com/estokada.htm but it seems to be a blend of weapons, not only swords.  There were a few other links as well (I did a google on Estokada), but again, all mixed weapons.  Am I looking in the wrong way maybe?


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## Black Grass (May 5, 2006)

The Game said:
			
		

> I found this: http://www.rutanoestokada.com/estokada.htm but it seems to be a blend of weapons, not only swords. There were a few other links as well (I did a google on Estokada), but again, all mixed weapons. Am I looking in the wrong way maybe?


 

I am talking about classic Estokada and Estoque. Not sure if this even taught anymore. Mr. Rutano 'estokada' is a amalgamation of various FMA he has learned.

Vince
akak Black Grass


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## The Game (May 5, 2006)

Ah.  Ok. It might be either dead or "well hidden". I couldn't find anything purely sword, but do appreciate the insights and leads.  Thank you.


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## Delta (May 5, 2006)

Hello all,

As Atienza Kali was previously mentioned I just wanted to chime in that beginning students learn how to use a sword with good body mechanics along with proper footwork .
The following is a clip of Atienza Kali Sword 1 Evolution. This is a 20 count drill that teaches students basic attacks and defenses with a sword against real energy of another person.

www.atienza-kali.com/video/swordevotrailer.wmv 

For more information please visit www.atienzakali.com 

With respects,


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## Bob Hubbard (May 5, 2006)

Cool video.


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## lhommedieu (May 6, 2006)

See my post in another thread of this forum.

Best,

Steve Lamade


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