# which is better for self defense



## cfr (Apr 22, 2004)

A spin on my last post as I was really hoping for more input from those of you that have more training than me:

Do you think its more benificial/ important for Self Defense to do Muay Thai and light MT sparring, or a combination of MT,JKD, and Kali with no sparring @ all.


----------



## Touch Of Death (Apr 22, 2004)

cfr said:
			
		

> A spin on my last post as I was really hoping for more input from those of you that have more training than me:
> 
> Do you think its more benificial/ important for Self Defense to do Muay Thai and light MT sparring, or a combination of MT,JKD, and Kali with no sparring @ all.


I think learning to take a punch can be as important as punching; so, I will choose the prior.
Sean


----------



## RHD (Apr 22, 2004)

cfr said:
			
		

> A spin on my last post as I was really hoping for more input from those of you that have more training than me:
> 
> Do you think its more benificial/ important for Self Defense to do Muay Thai and light MT sparring, or a combination of MT,JKD, and Kali with no sparring @ all.




Neither.

Muay Thai is a ring sport and will prepare you for a fight in the ring, but not against an attacker with a baseball bat in a parking lot, with no rules
Nor will any combination of systems that does not address free fighting.  Sparring is important to learn to deal with adrenaline and physical stress.
Good luck!
Mike


----------



## 8253 (Apr 23, 2004)

learn as much as you can from any style you can and see what will flow together from them.  Go both directions.


----------



## Tony (Apr 23, 2004)

I think if you have some knowledge of grappling, strikes, and escapes and aswell as avoidance strategies then you should be able to survive most encounters even avoid them.


----------



## Bammx2 (Apr 23, 2004)

Muscle Memory.
 My personal expierience was when I was 16...I got my 1st BB in shotokan.
I also got jumped one after school. I got the snot kicked out of me cause I had automatically reverted to my training of "point fighting".
Don't get me wrong...I SCORED great!  but they scored better;-)
 I started training for full contact kickboxing soon afterwards and it was like the 1st day of school all over again.I had no idea how TO punch,much less take a punch.
 I still swear by traditional styles....without them,we would not be here having this discussion.Hence my 2nd BB in shorinryu.
 My suggestion....learn what ever will work for you,but practice on a heavy bag as well.
Training partners are great,but they get a little offended if you try to wop the daylights out of'em too much.
 I can definitely speak from expierience;although personal only,I needed to learn both stand up and ground fighting and lots o bag work.
The other posts I have read so far on the subject are exxellent advice....choose what works for you.there is plenty out there.
Just know...if you train to "hold" punches only....you just might.


----------



## MJS (Apr 23, 2004)

cfr said:
			
		

> A spin on my last post as I was really hoping for more input from those of you that have more training than me:
> 
> Do you think its more benificial/ important for Self Defense to do Muay Thai and light MT sparring, or a combination of MT,JKD, and Kali with no sparring @ all.



I'd go with the combo of the 3, due to the fact that you'll be more well rounded, and you will still be doing sparring.

Mike


----------



## loki09789 (Apr 23, 2004)

Do it all in training, but always come back to the core of your goals to make sure you are adapting the stuff to fit your desired prep/event.


----------



## markulous (Apr 23, 2004)

Bammx2 said:
			
		

> Muscle Memory.
> My personal expierience was when I was 16...I got my 1st BB in shotokan.
> I also got jumped one after school. I got the snot kicked out of me cause I had automatically reverted to my training of "point fighting".
> Don't get me wrong...I SCORED great!  but they scored better;-)



What you just said is so true.  What a lot of people don't realize is that when they are training for "points" that's what they are going to fall back on when it's go time.  Even though they say "Oh well we train for points and we train for real also."  Your still going to revert back to whatever train in.  That's why training for points is a BAD thing that becomes habitual.


----------



## Kembudo-Kai Kempoka (Apr 23, 2004)

Do the world a favor. Buy a gun, stay indoors at home, and wait for the bad guys to come to you.


----------



## cfr (Apr 26, 2004)

markulous said:
			
		

> What you just said is so true.  What a lot of people don't realize is that when they are training for "points" that's what they are going to fall back on when it's go time.  Even though they say "Oh well we train for points and we train for real also."  Your still going to revert back to whatever train in.  That's why training for points is a BAD thing that becomes habitual.



This almost makes it sound as though its bad to spar? How many people really do all out sparring in Muay Thai? Not too many from the looks of an earlier post of mine. I could be reading this wrong???


----------



## cfr (Apr 26, 2004)

Kembudo-Kai Kempoka said:
			
		

> Do the world a favor. Buy a gun, stay indoors at home, and wait for the bad guys to come to you.



Thanks for the hot tip.


----------



## markulous (Apr 27, 2004)

cfr said:
			
		

> This almost makes it sound as though its bad to spar? How many people really do all out sparring in Muay Thai? Not too many from the looks of an earlier post of mine. I could be reading this wrong???



Not sparring nessicarily.  I guess it depends what your definition of sparring is.  When we spar we fight as if it was real life(with the tempo turned down obviously).  We throw on gear but other than that the stuff we use in there is stuff we would use on the street.

But if when you "spar" your trying to tap the guy with your foot to get a point or slap the guy on top of the head, then that is the stuff your going to fall back on.


----------



## Nightingale (Apr 27, 2004)

Pick one style and get good at it.

I've seen way too many professional yellow belts.  They've got yellow or orange belts in five or six styles, because they tried to do everything at once and ended up mastering nothing.  Learning a style takes time and energy.  Splitting that time and energy between two styles means you're only giving 50% at each.


----------



## cfr (Apr 27, 2004)

Nightingale said:
			
		

> Pick one style and get good at it.
> 
> I've seen way too many professional yellow belts.  They've got yellow or orange belts in five or six styles, because they tried to do everything at once and ended up mastering nothing.  Learning a style takes time and energy.  Splitting that time and energy between two styles means you're only giving 50% at each.



Beleive you me Im tired of starting over. The big dilema here is not sparring. I really dig my instructor, but had I known it would have taken 2 - 2 1/2 years to start sparring, I probably wouldn't have signed up. At least not then. I probably would have dont Muay Thai for a couple of years to get my need to spar bug out of my system, then come to this school. By the time I was fully aware of this fact, I was locked into a contract for a year. Trust me when I say that Im not happy about my situation or the possibility that I may be starting over one more time.


----------



## cfr (Apr 27, 2004)

markulous said:
			
		

> Not sparring nessicarily.  I guess it depends what your definition of sparring is.  When we spar we fight as if it was real life(with the tempo turned down obviously).  We throw on gear but other than that the stuff we use in there is stuff we would use on the street.



Having never sparred, Im curious how you do this? Is it a low tempo NHB type of deal. The right gear for elbows/ knees to the head?


----------



## MJS (Apr 28, 2004)

cfr said:
			
		

> Having never sparred, Im curious how you do this? Is it a low tempo NHB type of deal. The right gear for elbows/ knees to the head?



Yes, you're correct.  The right gear for throwing groin shots, eye jabs, and elbows/knees to the head.  The gear is out there, but its not gonna be cheap.  However, if you want the best gear for the best workout, then you're no doubt gonna pay top $$.

Mike


----------



## OC Kid (May 8, 2004)

Sparring to me distance, cordination, footwork ect. Is it what I would rely on in a street situation..No. I teach my students you never want to bang with some one. The longer you bang the more chances there are of you getting hurt or worse. No one wins by banging with someone. There are a wide variety of SD techniques that cant be used in sparring, joint stomps, eye gouges and a host of open hand techniques for example. 

Will sparring help make you a more complete martial artist..yes. But... If you concentrate on it only it is just one aspect of the art .That will make you a "Partial Artist" not a complete Martial Artist. IMO


----------



## Brother John (May 9, 2004)

cfr said:
			
		

> A spin on my last post as I was really hoping for more input from those of you that have more training than me:
> 
> Do you think its more benificial/ important for Self Defense to do Muay Thai and light MT sparring, or a combination of MT,JKD, and Kali with no sparring @ all.


Everyone responds differently to different kinds of training. What will work for you has as much to do with the art & what they do in their training (sparing or not) as it does with your own termrament and general level of physical conditioning. Also: the quality of instruction is another consideration. If I were you (and I'm not) I'd go with the later. But that's me.

Your Brother
John

PS: And in all honesty...I'd really go with neither...I'd go with Kenpo.
But that's me. :asian:


----------



## Cruentus (May 11, 2004)

IMHO...

Any art with live training is "best" for self-defense. You need to be able to train against a resisting and unpredictable partner. I don't think that "competition" with rules and such is the answer, but for imediate use in self-defense, you need to be able to try out whatever you are learning against someone who is resisting and unpredictable.

That's what I think.

 :asian:


----------



## cfr (May 13, 2004)

Tulisan said:
			
		

> IMHO...
> 
> I don't think that "competition" with rules and such is the answer, but for imediate use in self-defense, you need to be able to try out whatever you are learning against someone who is resisting and unpredictable.



Out of curiosity, how do you do competition without rules. (without someone getting really injured?)


----------



## jukado1 (May 16, 2004)

The last time i looked m/t does not teach defenses against back attacks, karate doesn't cover ground fighting, boxing does not show control holds against non violent attacks, all systems cover some parts of self-defense, but they all fall short in the long run. self-defense is its own (art) style. karate sparring teaches control of distance, timing, how to close the distance, and that is when fighting starts, whether hitting, kicking, choking, using knees, continuously driving through your opponent until they are no longer a threat.  to be effective you must first have a clear vision of your goal, whether street fighting, competition fighting, controlling an opponent, as in law enforcement, or survival/self-defense.


----------



## Trent (Jun 4, 2004)

You need a resistant partner to be able to practically apply your training regardless of style or system.  How you work up to that is strictly up to your instructor and system.


----------

