# Danzan Ryu - Japanese Jujutsu or Hawaiian Jujutsu?



## Makalakumu

I've been practicing the art of Danzan Ryu since 2002.  I took a break in 2006 and picked it up again in 2008 when I moved to Hawaii.  Currently, I hold the rank of ikkyu in the art.  

Throughout my practice of this art, black belts and professors have described the art as Japanese Jujutsu.  I've always felt that this wasn't a totally accurate description of the art, because the founder, Henry Okazaki, drew from a number of sources to form our lists.  

As the story goes, Okazaki moved to Hawaii around the turn of the last century and began to study various martial arts in Hawaii.  He learned Japanese jujutsu, he learned Okinawan Karate, he learned some Filipino Martial Arts, and he was able to learn Hawaiian Lua.  All of these were the source material from which he composed the art that I practice today.  They just so happen to be transmitted with kata and lists after the Japanese fashion of teaching.

Therefore, I think it could be argued that we are practicing Hawaiian jujutsu.  As this island chain is one of the most diverse melting pots on earth, the art actually reflects this by drawing many of the martial traditions that came to the islands.  

Besides, if the Brazilians can have their own form of Jujutsu, why can't Hawaii?  I think if I ever teach this art, I will probably call it Hawaiian Jujutsu.

Thoughts?


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## puunui

I think it is hawaiian jujutsu too, for the same reasons that you cite above.


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## Tanaka

Well this is a real touchy subject. As some feel that the system/school has to be headquartered in Japan or come from a Japanese native/Japanese. Some feel that somewhere down the line you just need a Japanese connection. For instance if Kito Ryu is taken by a Westerner to Western lands. It's considered Japanese Jujutsu because Kito Ryu comes from Japanese natives or perhaps a Japanese who moved to western world. Now lets say you have a Westerner who studied under a Japanese school but took it to the western world and started his own school/system(with some variations added to it). Some may not consider it Japanese Jujutsu anymore, but a western jujutsu system.


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## Buka

Makalakumu said:


> I've been practicing the art of Danzan Ryu since 2002.  I took a break in 2006 and picked it up again in 2008 when I moved to Hawaii.  Currently, I hold the rank of ikkyu in the art.
> 
> Throughout my practice of this art, black belts and professors have described the art as Japanese Jujutsu.  I've always felt that this wasn't a totally accurate description of the art, because the founder, Henry Okazaki, drew from a number of sources to form our lists.
> 
> As the story goes, Okazaki moved to Hawaii around the turn of the last century and began to study various martial arts in Hawaii.  He learned Japanese jujutsu, he learned Okinawan Karate, he learned some Filipino Martial Arts, and he was able to learn Hawaiian Lua.  All of these were the source material from which he composed the art that I practice today.  They just so happen to be transmitted with kata and lists after the Japanese fashion of teaching.
> 
> Therefore, I think it could be argued that we are practicing Hawaiian jujutsu.  As this island chain is one of the most diverse melting pots on earth, the art actually reflects this by drawing many of the martial traditions that came to the islands.
> 
> Besides, if the Brazilians can have their own form of Jujutsu, why can't Hawaii?  I think if I ever teach this art, I will probably call it Hawaiian Jujutsu.
> 
> Thoughts?



I have two thoughts. The first is yes, I think Hawaiian Jujutsu is a fine name. The martial arts world in Hawaii is different than anywhere else.

The second thought is - the Martial Arts Police will be all over your butt!


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## Makalakumu

Tanaka said:


> Well this is a real touchy subject. As some feel that the system/school has to be headquartered in Japan or come from a Japanese native/Japanese. Some feel that somewhere down the line you just need a Japanese connection. For instance if Kito Ryu is taken by a Westerner to Western lands. It's considered Japanese Jujutsu because Kito Ryu comes from Japanese natives or perhaps a Japanese who moved to western world. Now lets say you have a Westerner who studied under a Japanese school but took it to the western world and started his own school/system(with some variations added to it). Some may not consider it Japanese Jujutsu anymore, but a western jujutsu system.



In our lists, there is an oral history for every technique. Our professor can pretty much explain where every technique comes from. So many techniques aren't even from Japanese jujutsu, yet the art is still viewed as such. I think Hawaiian jujutsu is more accurate and it could lead to some interesting marketing.

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## Makalakumu

Buka said:


> I have two thoughts. The first is yes, I think Hawaiian Jujutsu is a fine name. The martial arts world in Hawaii is different than anywhere else.
> 
> The second thought is - the Martial Arts Police will be all over your butt!



Yeah, probably, but they've left me alone for the most part at this point. Lol!

The distinctness of Hawaii and its melting pot nature make it an interesting place to study martial arts.  Right now, our sensei is trying to establish ties to the lua community, so we all learn some hula and the techniques that came from lua get a little extra practice. Also, we're really emphasizing the healing aspects of our art. The massage, pharmacology, and accupressure is something that makes Danzan Ryu distinctly Hawaiian. The healing aspects actually draw a lot of non-traditional martial artists into our dojo. For example, we actually have more women then men in most of our classes.

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## Chris Parker

First off, Jujutsu is Japanese, end of story. If it isn't Japanese, it isn't Jujutsu (and yeah, I'm including the Brasilian one there... it ain't Jujutsu either). Next, "Ryu" is a Japanese term denoting style, so again, if it's a "Ryu", it's Japanese, end of story. 

However, "Danzan" is the Japanese pronunciation of the Chinese name for Hawaii, which basically means that the name translates as "Hawaiian style" Jujutsu. Hmm.

Honestly, I'd say that it's a Japanese-derived modern Western (Hawaiian) approach to Jujutsu-like methods. But that's a bit of a mouthful, so I'd more likely say that it's a modern Western (Hawaiian) system, and if asked, state that it traces itself back to Japanese Jujutsu systems, as well as other martial traditions through the founder Henry Okazaki.

But the purest in me says that it's either Jujutsu, which means it's Japanese, or it's not Japanese, which means it's not actually Jujutsu (albeit being remarkably similar).


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## 72ronin

In case you have not seen it Makalakumu, heres some old footage, Enjoy.

http://youtu.be/2Bv45Jzrgd8

http://youtu.be/DRi9I_hkLDk

http://youtu.be/VNx5cMi2qmw


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## puunui

Buka said:


> The martial arts world in Hawaii is different than anywhere else.



How so, in your opinion?


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## puunui

Makalakumu said:


> Y Right now, our sensei is trying to establish ties to the lua community, so we all learn some hula and the techniques that came from lua get a little extra practice.



That's a hard one, because I believe that you have to have native hawaiian blood to study lua. Or at least that is how it is now; I don't know how it was during Professor Okazaki's time.


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## puunui

Chris Parker said:


> Honestly, I'd say that it's a Japanese-derived modern Western (Hawaiian) approach to Jujutsu-like methods. But that's a bit of a mouthful, so I'd more likely say that it's a modern Western (Hawaiian) system, and if asked, state that it traces itself back to Japanese Jujutsu systems, as well as other martial traditions through the founder Henry Okazaki.



Let me guess. You've studied Danzan Ryu Jujutsu, right? If not, how did you get your information regarding Danzan Ryu such that you can render the above opinion?


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## Chris Parker

I can make such a statement because I'm an intelligent person who understands the categorisation of martial methods, and I'm familiar with a range of the arts that went into Danzan Ryu's formation, as well as with Danzan Ryu itself. This is hardly the first time I've come across it, you realize.

And I thought you were going to drop your little attacks and snide comments? After all, you know that it's been brought to the staff's attention here... But then again, that might be asking a bit too much of you.


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## puunui

Chris Parker said:


> I can make such a statement because I'm an intelligent person who understands the categorisation of martial methods, and I'm familiar with a range of the arts that went into Danzan Ryu's formation, as well as with Danzan Ryu itself. This is hardly the first time I've come across it, you realize.



So, no you never studied Danzan Ryu, then?


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## puunui

Makalakumu said:


> As the story goes, Okazaki moved to Hawaii around the turn of the last century and began to study various martial arts in Hawaii.  He learned Japanese jujutsu, he learned Okinawan Karate, he learned some Filipino Martial Arts, and he was able to learn Hawaiian Lua.  All of these were the source material from which he composed the art that I practice today.  They just so happen to be transmitted with kata and lists after the Japanese fashion of teaching.



And I want to say that Professor Okazaki also studied judo, or at least he had dan ranking in judo.


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## Chris Parker

(Sigh...) No, Glenn, I haven't trained in Danzan Ryu myself, nor have I claimed to. And weren't you accusing me of hot pursuit recently?


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## Buka

puunui said:


> How so, in your opinion?



I've been fortunate to travel over the years. I have never experienced a location where there were so many Martial Artists. I'm not talking about schools, per se, because renting commercial space in Hawaii is cost prohibitive a lot of times. I'm talking about people in general, people with a background and knowledge of Martial Arts. Hawaii is a melting pot for sure. But so are a lot of other places. I never could figure out why there were so many martial arts people in Hawaii, but they were everywhere. 

I lived upcountry Maui on Crater Road (later changed back to Haleakala Highway, which it was a continuation of) In the grand scheme of things it was the middle of nowhere. I remember hurting my back once (sneezing). I asked around and someone recommended an acupuncturist who did house calls. As he treated me, we talked. He did Martial Arts, too. BJJ and Muay Thai. We worked out in a field after that. Man, he was good. He introduced me to a lot of guys who trained, or used to. We hooked up and started training. (we called ourselves The Snap, Crackle, Pop Club because we were all old.)

Had lunch with a guy once, to discuss an unrelated project he was working on. Come to find out he trained, too. Invited me to an Aikido club in his back yard, about a half mile from my house as the crow flies. He gave me directions to his driveway, which was hard to find. When I pulled into his windy, dirt driveway, I came to his house. Behind it stood a building about the size of a four car garage. It was built in traditional Japanese architecture. Looked like a little Kodokan. It was completely hidden by a grove of wattle trees. Inside was even nicer than the outside. It wasn't a commercial operation, just a group of folks doing Aikido.

I could tell you a lot of stories like those incidences. I kept meeting folks who had a background in the Arts. They trained in their garage, lanai or back yard. And a lot of them were really talented. And they seemed to be everywhere. When they hooked up with each other a lot of ideas and methods of movement were exchanged. It was great for everyone.

I haven't seen such a diverse mix of Martial talent in one place, before or since.


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## Makalakumu

Buka said:


> I've been fortunate to travel over the years. I have never experienced a location where there were so many Martial Artists. I'm not talking about schools, per se, because renting commercial space in Hawaii is cost prohibitive a lot of times. I'm talking about people in general, people with a background and knowledge of Martial Arts. Hawaii is a melting pot for sure. But so are a lot of other places. I never could figure out why there were so many martial arts people in Hawaii, but they were everywhere.
> 
> I lived upcountry Maui on Crater Road (later changed back to Haleakala Highway, which it was a continuation of) In the grand scheme of things it was the middle of nowhere. I remember hurting my back once (sneezing). I asked around and someone recommended an acupuncturist who did house calls. As he treated me, we talked. He did Martial Arts, too. BJJ and Muay Thai. We worked out in a field after that. Man, he was good. He introduced me to a lot of guys who trained, or used to. We hooked up and started training. (we called ourselves The Snap, Crackle, Pop Club because we were all old.)
> 
> Had lunch with a guy once, to discuss an unrelated project he was working on. Come to find out he trained, too. Invited me to an Aikido club in his back yard, about a half mile from my house as the crow flies. He gave me directions to his driveway, which was hard to find. When I pulled into his windy, dirt driveway, I came to his house. Behind it stood a building about the size of a four car garage. It was built in traditional Japanese architecture. Looked like a little Kodokan. It was completely hidden by a grove of wattle trees. Inside was even nicer than the outside. It wasn't a commercial operation, just a group of folks doing Aikido.
> 
> I could tell you a lot of stories like those incidences. I kept meeting folks who had a background in the Arts. They trained in their garage, lanai or back yard. And a lot of them were really talented. And they seemed to be everywhere. When they hooked up with each other a lot of ideas and methods of movement were exchanged. It was great for everyone.
> 
> I haven't seen such a diverse mix of Martial talent in one place, before or since.



Great post.  I think you nailed it.  Hawaii is very unique because so many people here practice martial arts.  It's expensive to open a dojo, so you find most guys practicing in garages, backyards and in small study groups.  I love finding these places and getting to know people involved in this.


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## elder999

On the one hand, Okazaki's background was in traditional Japanese martial arts. He was following Japanese tradition by naming his art after the place where it was born by calling it "Danzan ryu," and he *was* ethnically Japanese, so it's a "Japanese martial art."

On the other hand, it's another _gaijin jutsu_, albeit one with a great deal of depth and documentation. 

Personally, I'd say you'd be fine calling it "Hawaiian jujutsu." I can also see Chris's viewpoint.

In any case, it's also much the same as tae kwon do being a Japanese martial art, since that's where its roots lie....I reckon that whatever your seniors and Okazaki call it is what you_ should _call it, when you start teaching it.

(My dad said much the same things about martial arts in Hawaii-he was stationed there in the 50's,coached judo and boxing,  and studied some form of karate, though I've never been able to figure out which one, in someone's garage.......)


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## puunui

Buka said:


> I haven't seen such a diverse mix of Martial talent in one place, before or since.



And not only diverse, but very deep as well. Many high level practitioners move here, in part because they feel the environment is most conducive to martial arts training. And most of the time, you see these people on the street, you wouldn't know that they even train in anything, because they look like ordinary people. The martial arts is embedded into culture here. For example, every buddhist or shinto temple has at least one martial arts club going on, and more likely at least two or three.


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## puunui

elder999 said:


> (My dad said much the same things about martial arts in Hawaii-he was stationed there in the 50's,coached judo and boxing,  and studied some form of karate, though I've never been able to figure out which one, in someone's garage.......)



What was the name of your father's teacher in karate in hawaii? Or where was the garage?


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## puunui

Buka said:


> Had lunch with a guy once, to discuss an unrelated project he was working on. Come to find out he trained, too. Invited me to an Aikido club in his back yard, about a half mile from my house as the crow flies. He gave me directions to his driveway, which was hard to find. When I pulled into his windy, dirt driveway, I came to his house. Behind it stood a building about the size of a four car garage. It was built in traditional Japanese architecture. Looked like a little Kodokan. It was completely hidden by a grove of wattle trees. Inside was even nicer than the outside. It wasn't a commercial operation, just a group of folks doing Aikido.



If you have a million dollars, you can buy this home which comes with its own separate dojo building similar to the one you describe above. Picture ten is the dojo, which is my friend's house. And if you do purchase it, let me know because you'd live about a ten minute walk from me. 

http://www.realestate.com/detail/368-1202926-3023-One-St-Honolulu-HI-96822/#


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## elder999

puunui said:


> What was the name of your father's teacher in karate in hawaii? Or where was the garage?




Sadly, I don't know either of those things- I know it was in Kaneohe, from 1952-54, and-other than what he showed me of it, that's about it........


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## puunui

elder999 said:


> Sadly, I don't know either of those things- I know it was in Kaneohe, from 1952-54, and-other than what he showed me of it, that's about it........



Did he learn any kata? If so, which ones? It might have been kenpo that your father learned, or okinawan karate.


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## elder999

puunui said:


> Did he learn any kata? If so, which ones? It might have been kenpo that your father learned, or okinawan karate.




It _was_ Okinawan karate-he learned the pinans, tensho,sanchin, bassai and naihanchi kata, all of which he recognized from my doing them, he'd forgotten most of them long before.....

As you know, this doesn't really narrow it down at all: I think, from differences he pointed out between the versions of tensho, that it might have been _shito-ryu_, which isn't really "Okinawan," per se, and I don't know was on Oahu at the time. It could have easily been shorin ryu, or even kyokushin-except he didn't recognize taikyoku kata at all-for him it was just "karate," and really only secondary to his judo practice-something he did in Hawaii when he was in the Navy, and never again........


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## Randy Strausbaugh

In the end, it's probably best to call it by whichever name you are most comfortable.  If students wish to know the background, you can explain it to them, and then they can call it whatever _they_ wish.  The training, not the name, will prove to be the more important factor. 
And don't let the name combo mess you up.  After all, in this country we have Mexican lasagna, Cincinnati chili, Hawaiian pizza, and ...Chinese Kenpo (bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha).


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## puunui

elder999 said:


> It _was_ Okinawan karate-he learned the pinans, tensho,sanchin,  bassai and naihanchi kata, all of which he recognized from my doing  them, he'd forgotten most of them long before.....As you know, this doesn't really narrow it down at all: I think, from differences he pointed out between the versions of tensho, that it might have been _shito-ryu_, which isn't really "Okinawan," per se, and I don't know was on Oahu at the time. It could have easily been shorin ryu, or even kyokushin-except he didn't recognize taikyoku kata at all-for him it was just "karate," and really only secondary to his judo practice-something he did in Hawaii when he was in the Navy, and never again........



Was he stationed at the Marine Corps base in Kaneohe? 

Back in the early 50s, I think there were only two groups that were practicing okinawan karate at the time, the kenpo groups and the okinawan karate practiced by locals who had learned back in the 20s and 30's, when teachers would visit from Okinawa. There are some webpages that talk about that stuff. If he learned the pinan kata, then that would take out the kenpo groups, because the only kata they practiced, if they practiced kata at all, was naihanchi. The local okinawan group taught some or all of those kata, but during that period, I can't see then allowing any non-okinawan people to join in their back yard garage practices. Also garages back then were smaller, one car I believe, rather than two car or more like today. So I don't know who he would have learned from. Perhaps it was another person in the navy that studied in okinawa and was teaching off base. Or perhaps it was another person in the navy and he learned from someplace other than hawaii, phillipines for example, but sort of remembers it was hawaii. The person who would know is Sensei Charles Goodin. If you search his name, you will find his email address and perhaps you can write to him and ask him.


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## puunui

Randy Strausbaugh said:


> And don't let the name combo mess you up.  After all, in this country we have Mexican lasagna, Cincinnati chili, Hawaiian pizza, and ...Chinese Kenpo (bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha).



I never got the idea of Chinese Kenpo. I think it started because two of Professor Mitose's black belts who went on to teach at their own kenpo schools, Professor Chow and Professor Young, were part chinese and chinese respectively.


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## elder999

puunui said:


> Was he stationed at the Marine Corps base in Kaneohe?
> 
> Back in the early 50s, I think there were only two groups that were practicing okinawan karate at the time, the kenpo groups and the okinawan karate practiced by locals who had learned back in the 20s and 30's, when teachers would visit from Okinawa. There are some webpages that talk about that stuff. If he learned the pinan kata, then that would take out the kenpo groups, because the only kata they practiced, if they practiced kata at all, was naihanchi. The local okinawan group taught some or all of those kata, but during that period, I can't see then allowing any non-okinawan people to join in their back yard garage practices. Also garages back then were smaller, one car I believe, rather than two car or more like today. So I don't know who he would have learned from. Perhaps it was another person in the navy that studied in okinawa and was teaching off base. Or perhaps it was another person in the navy and he learned from someplace other than hawaii, phillipines for example, but sort of remembers it was hawaii. The person who would know is Sensei Charles Goodin. If you search his name, you will find his email address and perhaps you can write to him and ask him.



Dad was a Naval chaplain, and stationed at a Pearl, but may have done services at Kaneohe. He was also engaged to marry a "Japanese" woman at the time, which might have had some bearing, since he said that the sensei was "Japanese" as well...or not. I dunno.......I tried Charles Goodin once, but-as you can see-I just don't have enough information.


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## Buka

My friends and I started going to Hawaii in 74 for a month at a time. That's how long you had in order to get round trip airfare prices. One of the guys moved there in 76. (and we would fly over and move right in whenever we could afford it! ) We couldn't very well go a month without training, we were young black belt pups, so we always brought gi pants and worked out on our own. We met all kinds of martial guys and gals. Some were locals, and some were tourists. It was always a wonderful experience to work out with them. Sometimes it was in a ball-field, a beach, a back yard or the top of Haleakala. We met Russian Karate men, German wrestlers, kick boxers from Amsterdam, Korean Tae-kwon-do men, and Japanese artists from a lot of different styles. On several occasions we worked out with a language barrier problem and only knew what each other were saying by technique and body language alone, but it was still great. Fantastic, even.

On several occasions in the eighties I spoke with Ed Parker and Wally Jay about what it was like growing up there and training Martial Arts. They had some wonderful stories and would go on for hours, it was like listening to a history lesson. In 78 I saw a Mas Oyama's team fight in Honolulu. Master Oyama was there and I got to bow to him and shake his hand. (didn't wash it for two days. No, really, I'm serious.)  In 94 and 95 my wife and I took privates in the garage under Relson Gracies house from one of his purple belts. We went to some of his classes. (at the time they were at U H.) In 96 and 97 we trained at Rickson's school (run by Hommolo Barrens) in Wailuku. It was a grand time.

We lived there twice, once for two years and once for ten. Both times we had to move back to take care of elderly family. Everyone's gone now, and we'll be going back for good when we can. I'm actually on a leave of absence from my job at the airport.  Our dog (who was born in Hilo) is 14....







....and is too old to make the trip. I hope he lives another ten years, but that probably ain't gonna happen.

One of my good friends on Maui is a Tang-soo-do man. I worked out with him many times. A lot of the black belts from his organization would come to vacation, and we all had a grand time. It was like that with everyone I knew from the fight game. They'd come for vacation and they would always spend a couple days working out with the boys. Hawaii is like that. It usually draws more vacationers than Boston (where I am now) or say, South Dakota.

When I think "Hawaii" and "Martial Arts" my head usually spins a bit. Martial Artists are everywhere over there. And, man, I can't wait to go home.


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## Makalakumu

This is the perfect place to feed my obsession. I like the laid back atmosphere and talking story with the old guys...and the homegrown jujutsu style is cool too!

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## punisher73

puunui said:


> I never got the idea of Chinese Kenpo. I think it started because two of Professor Mitose's black belts who went on to teach at their own kenpo schools, Professor Chow and Professor Young, were part chinese and chinese respectively.



Prof. Chow called his art various things throughout his life.  He also said that his father taught him kung fu which he added to what Mitose taught him, thus the chinese influence.  To really muddy the waters, when Mitose first started teaching, he didn't claim to be the inheritor of some long drawn out Japanese history and style.  It was rumored that Choki Motobu was his uncle and in Mitose's first book he even uses Motobu's coat of arms.  Motobu called his approach Okinawan Kempo, I think this is where the migration to using the term "Hawaiian Kempo" started.  It has been shown by Chosei Motobu that they were NOT related to Mitose, but many feel that his training and training methods were the product of okinawan karate and not a japanese style as later claimed.


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## puunui

punisher73 said:


> Prof. Chow called his art various things throughout his life.  He also said that his father taught him kung fu which he added to what Mitose taught him, thus the chinese influence.



I studied with Professor Chow, who was a friend of the family. My uncle, who also studied with him during the 1950's, was the one who introduced Professor Chow to his wife Patsy. I don't know if you have GM Ed Parker's book series Infinite Insights, but in volume one there is a group photo of GM Parker at Professor Chow's school at the Nuuanu YMCA. My uncle I believe is in the first row, the first person on the left. Professor Chow and his wife used to go over to my uncle's house (which was right next to ours), back when we all lived in puunui.


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## puunui

elder999 said:


> Dad was a Naval chaplain, and stationed at a Pearl, but may have done services at Kaneohe. He was also engaged to marry a "Japanese" woman at the time, which might have had some bearing, since he said that the sensei was "Japanese" as well...or not. I dunno.......I tried Charles Goodin once, but-as you can see-I just don't have enough information.



Back in the early 1950's, there was a distinction here between mainland japanese and okinawans, and the two didn't really mix culturally or socially. By my generation, those sorts of distinctions went away. In fact, I have many friends who are Okinawan or part Okinawan, including one of my oldest friends. But perhaps the distinction wasn't made clear to your father, because it was a taboo subject. So perhaps he assumed the people who he was training with were japanese, when in fact, they were okinawan.


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## Makalakumu

puunui said:


> Back in the early 1950's, there was a distinction here between mainland japanese and okinawans, and the two didn't really mix culturally or socially. By my generation, those sorts of distinctions went away. In fact, I have many friends who are Okinawan or part Okinawan, including one of my oldest friends. But perhaps the distinction wasn't made clear to your father, because it was a taboo subject. So perhaps he assumed the people who he was training with were japanese, when in fact, they were okinawan.



I've always wondered about what Okazaki's experience in Hawaii was like at the turn of the century?  If the various groups were this insular, how was he able to make so many connections with so many people who were willing to share martial arts with him?  He trained with a Japanese jujutsu teacher.  He trained with a Chinese kung fu teacher.  He trained in Okinawan Karate.  He trained in Filipino knife fighting.  He trained in Hawaiian Lua...and even now you can't formally train in this unless you have Hawaiian ancestry.  How did he pull all of this together?  It's pretty amazing when you think about it...


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## puunui

Makalakumu said:


> I've always wondered about what Okazaki's experience in Hawaii was like at the turn of the century?  If the various groups were this insular, how was he able to make so many connections with so many people who were willing to share martial arts with him?  He trained with a Japanese jujutsu teacher.  He trained with a Chinese kung fu teacher.  He trained in Okinawan Karate.  He trained in Filipino knife fighting.  He trained in Hawaiian Lua...and even now you can't formally train in this unless you have Hawaiian ancestry.  How did he pull all of this together?  It's pretty amazing when you think about it...



Good question. Perhaps the answer is in examining each individual techniques from his original curriculum closely to determine if there are in fact evidence of those styles within Danzan Ryu. I would focus on unique things specific to such arts and not generic techniques that could have come from any number of places. Another possibility worth exploring is the idea that he had a massage clinic and worked on a lot of different people. Perhaps he treated someone who studied one of the arts mentioned above and perhaps showed Professor Okazaki a technique or two or three and that got into the story. Just thinking off the top of my head.

A while back I actually went to the Okazaki Restoration Massage place, which was still being run by Professor Okazaki's son. The son must have been in his 70s or older, but he gave a very hard massage. I felt beat up and stoned for days after that experience. Looking at his old photos, I can only imagine what it must have been like to have gotten a massage from Professor Okazaki.


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## Makalakumu

puunui said:


> Good question. Perhaps the answer is in examining each individual techniques from his original curriculum closely to determine if there are in fact evidence of those styles within Danzan Ryu. I would focus on unique things specific to such arts and not generic techniques that could have come from any number of places. Another possibility worth exploring is the idea that he had a massage clinic and worked on a lot of different people. Perhaps he treated someone who studied one of the arts mentioned above and perhaps showed Professor Okazaki a technique or two or three and that got into the story. Just thinking off the top of my head.
> 
> A while back I actually went to the Okazaki Restoration Massage place, which was still being run by Professor Okazaki's son. The son must have been in his 70s or older, but he gave a very hard massage. I felt beat up and stoned for days after that experience. Looking at his old photos, I can only imagine what it must have been like to have gotten a massage from Professor Okazaki.



It's been a couple of days since I've had time to sit down and look something up, but this thread has remained in my mind.  I'm going to schedule an appointment for one of the Okazaki Massages.  I've heard they are "therapeutic".  

Anyway, in regards to Lua's connection to DZR, here is an article that is posted on our jujutsu dojo's website.

http://www.pixi.com/~mcjitsu/okazaki/article03.html



> Upon first hearing that Professor Okazaki incorporated Hawaiian _Lua_ into his system, I have been trying to find out where the _lua_ was hidden, which techniques were of Hawaiian origin, and why these _lua_ techniques were kept so secret. No one seemed to know where the _lua_ was among the hundreds of techniques contained within the system Professor Okazaki called _Danzan Ryu_. For more than thirty years, I sought answers to these questions by searching libraries across the country and within various Hawaiian island communities. It seemed as though Hawaii, itself, had lost the mysterious art of _lua_, or possibly that someone or group had painstakingly combed through the public archives and removed all traces of this ancient art.
> 
> After personally interviewing several of Okazaki's former students, talking to many older generation Hawaiians, and following several leads, I was able to make contact with a _lua_ group in the summer of 1995. A time and place was set, and I prepared to meet with these warriors who practice the ancient way of bone breaking. Acutely aware of my own limitations, I was somewhat apprehensive about our first meeting. In retrospect, my friends had voiced a sense of fear based on stories they had heard about _lua_. As I followed the _'olohe-lua_ (instructor) to a private location at the base of a rugged mountain range, foremost in my mind were stories told to me by the old Hawaiians. One tale described of how the _haole_ (foreigner) would be invited to participate in a _lua_ training session with an established _lua_ group, only to discover that he would actually be the object upon which the _haumana_ (_lua_ disciple) would practice. Following the life and death battle, the conquered victim's bones would be "bundled" after which he would be eaten alive!



Here is a list of techniques that this researcher has identified as Lua techniques.



> _ryote hazushi_
> _yubi toi_
> _katate tori_
> _ryote tori_
> _ryoeri tori_
> _akushu kote tori_
> _kubi nuki shime_
> _hadaka shime ichi_
> _osaegami jime_
> _shidare fuji jime_
> _mizukuguri_
> _komiri_
> _shigarami_
> _tora katsugi_
> _hiki otoshi_
> _kin katsugi_
> _hon gyaku san_
> _genkotsu ude tori ichi_
> _kesa nage_
> _ashi shigarami_
> _gyaku hayanada_
> _hizaori nage_
> _ebi shime_
> _ushiro ebi shime_
> _ushiro nage_
> _kesa koroshi_
> _tataki komi_
> _tsukikomi dome_
> _obi otoshi_
> _tsurigane otoshi_
> _tawara gaeshi_
> selected techniques from _Shingin No Make_



I know the techniques on this list up to Ashi Shigarami and could comment specifically.  After that, I haven't learned it yet.


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## 72ronin

Im sure ive seen a vid on Hawaiian martial art before. Maybe it was the Lua that you guys speak of. Perhaps you could compare with it.
I will try to find it. If it is irrelevant to this particular discussion, my appologies in advance 
cheers


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## 72ronin

From the 5.50 min mark, untill 13 min.

http://youtu.be/zj7y9XMREZY

Only a short demonstration unfortunately. 
cheers


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