# masters of kempo



## marlon (Oct 26, 2007)

I want to thank Ed Parker jr. for sharing his insight skill and humoour with us at the unity seminar.  Among many other things one point he brought out was that we  spend too much time looking back and do not honour ourselves enough.  I agree.  there are many masters today who have a great deal of knowledge to share and are holding back.  Shihan Ingargiola, Master Chun jr., Doc Chapel,master John Fritz....to name a few.  Not to fault or critize them, lord knows life can and often does pull us in too many directions so that we sometimes cannot get to everything we want to. It would be a great loss to have these noteables leave us without them using the technology of today to document and comment on thier arts!!  And we also should do so as we learn and grow.  There is a great discussion in taiji about those who change things without proper knowledge.  I agree, too early fosters weakness but so does merely mimicing your instructor forever and teaching others to mimic as well.  As the greats set things out of the pinnacle of thier understanding making it clear that this is how it is done and why, we can reference, grow and understand better.  In the end, the life of our styles demands growth or dictates death.  and the above mentioned masters are a wondeful launching point.  i hope everyone encourages them to open and share on a large broad scale.  all of us and all of martial arts will benefit from this sharing.
Unfortunately there is a tendacy to slam others and fear that thier skill and history can force us into doing things thier way.  An unaviodable reality, i think, but in the end so what, those who don't like it can leave it, at least it will be there as a reference for growth and not a dead stagnate thing.
well end of my babbling.  Any thoughts?


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## youngbraveheart (Oct 27, 2007)

marlon said:


> ...there are many masters today who have a great deal of knowledge to share and are holding back...


 
Isn't the learning process best done in stages or phases? Should a master overload his loyal student(s) with many years of information and knowledge in shorter periods of time that the meaning is lost or misunderstood (forever)?  Isn't it the master's prerogative to decide who they feel should learn their entire style or art and hold back from those who are not worthy?  So, if they're holding back, they must have a good reason(s)...they can probably see who will be loyal and who will not...IMHO, it's not my duty as a student to question my master's action(s)...if my teacher/instructor were to die with all his knowledge, wisdom, and experience, I will still consider myself the luckiest guy in the world to have been his student...


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## Kembudo-Kai Kempoka (Oct 28, 2007)

I must disagree. I met Doc Chapel posting on this forum, inquired about meeting him and learning from his insights, and he was more than open to dialoguing with an interested mind. Some of what he does isn't fit for public consumption: A 14 year old boy has no business knowing how to disrupt neural communication in a high school ego fight.

I think the holding back he does is wise, and that he honors his material and instructors by waiting until a student is ready to learn, before sharing. He is also the only kenpo senior I know of who will take the time to guide critical thinking around kenpo on these forums. I guess I'm at a loss as to how that represents a refusal to share?


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## kidswarrior (Oct 28, 2007)

marlon said:


> Unfortunately there is a tendacy to slam others and fear that thier skill and history can force us into doing things thier way.  An unaviodable reality, i think, but in the end so what, those who don't like it can leave it, at least it will be there as a reference for growth and not a dead stagnate thing.
> well end of my babbling.  Any thoughts?


Marlon, I almost always enjoy your posts and appreciate your contributions to kempo, but as with a couple of other posters must also disagree with characterizing Doc as someone who may 'slam others or fear their skill'. While having never met Doc personally, my sense from this board is he's probably not afraid of man or beast. What he may fear--and I admit this stems from my own fears as a fellow 'old timer'--is putting information and skill into the wrong hands. But then I think every instructor with any discretion must have some fear of that.

I hope this doesn't sound like a criticism, because it's certainly not intended that way. I'm just hoping that maybe you can clarify your first post. :asian:


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## marlon (Oct 28, 2007)

Wow, i must make better efforts to be clearer in my posts.  I absolutely do not mean Doc when i mentioned people holding back or people being slammed.  I have never met Doc but i have communicated with him several times and havethe upmost respect for him.  Also, my teacher Shihan Ingargiola is always ready to answer any question i may have clearly, freely and openly.  I respect completely his judgement about what i am ready for and what i can handle and what i should already have nailed down, he is my teacher.  I also am very sure that i have enough material to deal with right now and to practice.  The point of my post was / is to ask those with knowledge to not let it be lost.  nothing more and nothing less.  There are many arguements on this forum about how such and such a form aught to be done, what a move means, strategies and concepts that we discuss and have no idea what the now dead master really intended.  I feel arts should grow and develop, however knowing your history without knowing what those who were making the history intended can leave a lot of room for confusion.  The holding back i mentioned is not the same thing as waiting for a student to be ready, which i quite agree with, the thing i am speaking of is more about writing books to preserve the unique understandfing and approach of a great master.  Believe me i have been encouraging Shihan Ingargiola to do so for many years now.  Of course, he is a busy man and has not found the time to yet.  I look forward to his book very much, as i would love to havee Doc Chapel's understanding and insight in print and Master Fritz and master Chun jr.  who would not love to be able to read a book on kempo by William Chow or Bill Chun sr.  or Walter Godin...etc.  I think we all would.  Think how many EPAK people have read infinite insights with great benefit!!!  This is what i am asking about for shaolin kempo and the other kempo styles we participate in.  Think of the benefit we all would have!!
So again my apologies if i sounded like i was looking for the great secrets to be handed to me by masters who do not know me from a hole in the wall.  i believe in training...training is truth.  I also believe in not being an ignorant brawler.  There are great taiji books out there and infinite insights is very informative, believe me the more these great masters share with us the better for the martial arts world...especially since one day they will be gone

i ask that you please read my first post again keeping the above in mind.

with respect and humility,
marlon


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## marlon (Oct 28, 2007)

Again.  reading about an art can  be a great benefit.  Nothing replaces training, good hard training, training with sweat and guts and with thinking

respectfully,
Marlon


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## marlon (Oct 28, 2007)

ok and lastly the term "putting off" would more accurately convey my meaning instead of "holding back"
thanks
marlon


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## Doc (Oct 29, 2007)

marlon said:


> ok and lastly the term "putting off" would more accurately convey my meaning instead of "holding back"
> thanks
> marlon



"no soup for you!"


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## marlon (Oct 29, 2007)

Doc said:


> "no soup for you!"


 

aaahhh!!!


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## kidswarrior (Oct 29, 2007)

marlon said:


> Wow, i must make better efforts to be clearer in my posts.  I absolutely do not mean Doc when i mentioned people holding back or people being slammed.  I have never met Doc but i have communicated with him several times and havethe upmost respect for him.  Also, my teacher Shihan Ingargiola is always ready to answer any question i may have clearly, freely and openly.  I respect completely his judgement about what i am ready for and what i can handle and what i should already have nailed down, he is my teacher.  I also am very sure that i have enough material to deal with right now and to practice.  The point of my post was / is to ask those with knowledge to not let it be lost.  nothing more and nothing less.  There are many arguements on this forum about how such and such a form aught to be done, what a move means, strategies and concepts that we discuss and have no idea what the now dead master really intended.  I feel arts should grow and develop, however knowing your history without knowing what those who were making the history intended can leave a lot of room for confusion.  The holding back i mentioned is not the same thing as waiting for a student to be ready, which i quite agree with, the thing i am speaking of is more about writing books to preserve the unique understandfing and approach of a great master.  Believe me i have been encouraging Shihan Ingargiola to do so for many years now.  Of course, he is a busy man and has not found the time to yet.  I look forward to his book very much, as i would love to havee Doc Chapel's understanding and insight in print and Master Fritz and master Chun jr.  who would not love to be able to read a book on kempo by William Chow or Bill Chun sr.  or Walter Godin...etc.  I think we all would.  Think how many EPAK people have read infinite insights with great benefit!!!  This is what i am asking about for shaolin kempo and the other kempo styles we participate in.  Think of the benefit we all would have!!
> So again my apologies if i sounded like i was looking for the great secrets to be handed to me by masters who do not know me from a hole in the wall.  i believe in training...training is truth.  I also believe in not being an ignorant brawler.  There are great taiji books out there and infinite insights is very informative, believe me the more these great masters share with us the better for the martial arts world...especially since one day they will be gone
> 
> i ask that you please read my first post again keeping the above in mind.
> ...



Thanks for clarifying! That's the Marlon I've always looked forward to reading and learning from. :asian:


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