# Are Hybrids Even Necessary?



## wingchun100 (Dec 29, 2016)

I am full of material tonight!

All this talk of hybrids got me thinking about...well, hybrids. We all know it can theoretically take a lifetime (and then some) to master just one art...whatever that means. 

So what does that mean? If you wanted to combine 3 arts, you need 3 lifetimes? Well, obviously none of us have that many. With that in mind, I asked myself, "Are hybrid arts even necessary? Or can't each person make their style work against everything else on its own?"

What do you think? Do you think the style you currently study has all the answers you need? Do you see gaps that could be filled in by other arts?


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## drop bear (Dec 29, 2016)

Not really it is an arms race.


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## geezer (Dec 29, 2016)

_Are hybrids necessary? _ It doesn't really matter. Hybrids happen. It's in the nature of homo sapiens to tinker and invent. I guess you could say its in our DNA ...and even that, we now know is a _hybrid _of modern _Homo sapiens sapiens_ and a bit of _Homo sapiens neanderthalensis._


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## Kung Fu Wang (Dec 29, 2016)

wingchun100 said:


> Do you think the style you currently study has all the answers you need?


If you train

- boxing, do you want to learn how to wrestle as well?
- wrestling, do you want to learn how to punch as well?

Unless you just want to isolate yourself in your own area, you will need "cross training" soon or later.


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## Gerry Seymour (Dec 29, 2016)

wingchun100 said:


> I am full of material tonight!
> 
> All this talk of hybrids got me thinking about...well, hybrids. We all know it can theoretically take a lifetime (and then some) to master just one art...whatever that means.
> 
> ...


The style I study and teach is a hybrid. And it still doesn't cover everything - nothing can. The way I see it, we can choose one thing and get extremely good at that (think boxing), or we can choose a wider range and be very good at that (think most TMA), or we can spread ourselves too thin and not get all that good at any of it. All three are actually valid, depending upon your aims.

I'll also say that I don't think someone needs 40 years of knowledge in an art to begin to integrate it. After maybe 10 years (could be less with more time per week), a person who digs into the principles should be able to begin that process. And I think the timeline is shorter for subsequent arts, so someone could reasonably integrate 3 arts into a cohesive personal system in, say, 15-20 years (assuming the second and third arts didn't start with the first). Will they have a full depth of understanding? No. But that depth comes with continued exploration, and they can continue that exploration in their new personal hybrid. At what point can they start teaching that hybrid? They might be able to teach it immediately, if they are also good at communicating those principles to others.

For my part, I enjoy being in a hybrid art. If I'd stayed with any of my earlier arts, I'd have studied multiple arts (in fact, I did for a while) to get a fuller range. I think the answer is dependent upon what the individual's goals are.


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## marques (Dec 30, 2016)

wingchun100 said:


> I am full of material tonight!
> 
> All this talk of hybrids got me thinking about...well, hybrids. We all know it can theoretically take a lifetime (and then some) to master just one art...whatever that means.
> 
> ...


Both are possibly good choices, hybrid or 'pure'. The hard thing is choosing (or have the opportunity to study) what fit us.

I trained a hybrid, and currently training Muay Thai that is more striking. I don't excel in anything, but having a range of possibilities I can be more unpredictable and use a good strategy for each occasion. And that is my advantage. On other hand, one of my instructors was using only one announced technique, again and again, and I was hopeless.

Repeating myself again, we all are different and we are looking for different things. So hybrids are needed, yes, at least for some. Creating his/her own style, I consider more risky but also potentially more profitable and maybe inevitable in the long run...


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## DanT (Mar 31, 2017)

I know this is a bit of an older thread but i wanted to add in my two cents if that's okay. 

In terms of general self defense, one set of skills is often enough. If a person accosts a professional boxer in the streets for example, the boxer doesn't have to kick, he can just punch his way out of trouble. Similarly if a person accosts a wrestler on the street, the wrestler need not punch, but rather use his skill set (wrestling). Wing Chun, at least my Wing Chun, focuses heavily on Pining, Sticking, and Trapping. Although we use longer range techniques as well to assist in closing the gap (Jab, various kicks, etc.). As an important note, I never "combine" styles when training, I keep them separate. When I spar however, I use multiple styles as fluidly as possible. I think this is important, being able to "switch" what you're doing fluidly in sparring. I might for example use a Long Fist combination, and then switch to a Tai Chi throw, and then use a Wing Chun pin and strike when the opponent stands up again or something. I would not however, create some mish-mash form trying to combine all the styles I practice however. There's no need to mix and create my own, when I spar I have my own. 

I also believe it's important to dedicate as much time as possible to "mastering" your style, rather than trying to dance around with a bit of everything. I think realistically if you were to dedicate as much time as possible to train (6 h a day 6 days a week for example), you probably would only be able to master 3-4 styles anyways. The most I've heard of someone being actually proficient at was 5 (Tai Chi, Judo, Mantis, Cha Quan, and Hung Gar) but this person trained since they were 5, and about 50 hours a week. Even if we look at top MMA fighters, they often practice 3-4 styles (BJJ, Muay Thai, and one other). There aren't many who practice more, because there's simple not enough time to become proficient in more.

My advice? Become proficient first in one style. Have a solid base of 5-6 hard years of training. Then, if you wish, add a second style and learn it along side with your first art for another 5-6 years. Then, once you become proficient in the second art, add a third. Then, after 5-6 years of hard  training of the third style along side your first and second, add a fourth. By the time you add your fourth art, you will have:

-15 years of experience in Style 1
-10 years of experience in Style 2
-5 Years of experience in style 3

That's what I recommend anyways.


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## Gerry Seymour (Mar 31, 2017)

DanT said:


> I know this is a bit of an older thread but i wanted to add in my two cents if that's okay.
> 
> In terms of general self defense, one set of skills is often enough. If a person accosts a professional boxer in the streets for example, the boxer doesn't have to kick, he can just punch his way out of trouble. Similarly if a person accosts a wrestler on the street, the wrestler need not punch, but rather use his skill set (wrestling). Wing Chun, at least my Wing Chun, focuses heavily on Pining, Sticking, and Trapping. Although we use longer range techniques as well to assist in closing the gap (Jab, various kicks, etc.). As an important note, I never "combine" styles when training, I keep them separate. When I spar however, I use multiple styles as fluidly as possible. I think this is important, being able to "switch" what you're doing fluidly in sparring. I might for example use a Long Fist combination, and then switch to a Tai Chi throw, and then use a Wing Chun pin and strike when the opponent stands up again or something. I would not however, create some mish-mash form trying to combine all the styles I practice however. There's no need to mix and create my own, when I spar I have my own.
> 
> ...


I think what you're describing during sparring is what most of us would call your "personal hybrid". It's not something you teach, but it is a hybrid of multiple arts that you use in sparring.


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## DanT (Mar 31, 2017)

gpseymour said:


> I think what you're describing during sparring is what most of us would call your "personal hybrid". It's not something you teach, but it is a hybrid of multiple arts that you use in sparring.


Exactly! I don't need to instruct anyone on MY personal hybrid though. Its like teaching someone English in my opinion. You can prefer to spell "you" as "u", but that doesn't mean you don't teach them to spell "you". Get what I'm saying?


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## Gerry Seymour (Mar 31, 2017)

DanT said:


> Exactly! I don't need to instruct anyone on MY personal hybrid though. Its like teaching someone English in my opinion. You can prefer to spell "you" as "u", but that doesn't mean you don't teach them to spell "you". Get what I'm saying?


Of course.

Mind you, that doesn't mean new compilations (hybrids) aren't also valuable as systems. Every MA system that exists was once an amalgamation of stuff learned in various places, then someone assembled it into something cohesive. Nearly every off-shoot/derivative of an art is at least partly changed by the introduction of some new material.


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## KangTsai (Apr 2, 2017)

It's all dependent on the memes.


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## wingchun100 (Apr 28, 2017)

DanT said:


> I know this is a bit of an older thread but i wanted to add in my two cents if that's okay.
> 
> In terms of general self defense, one set of skills is often enough. If a person accosts a professional boxer in the streets for example, the boxer doesn't have to kick, he can just punch his way out of trouble. Similarly if a person accosts a wrestler on the street, the wrestler need not punch, but rather use his skill set (wrestling). Wing Chun, at least my Wing Chun, focuses heavily on Pining, Sticking, and Trapping. Although we use longer range techniques as well to assist in closing the gap (Jab, various kicks, etc.). As an important note, I never "combine" styles when training, I keep them separate. When I spar however, I use multiple styles as fluidly as possible. I think this is important, being able to "switch" what you're doing fluidly in sparring. I might for example use a Long Fist combination, and then switch to a Tai Chi throw, and then use a Wing Chun pin and strike when the opponent stands up again or something. I would not however, create some mish-mash form trying to combine all the styles I practice however. There's no need to mix and create my own, when I spar I have my own.
> 
> ...


 
I will say this: I have been studying Wing Chun (addmittedly, on and off) since 1995. Recently I started going to a JKD class because there are no WC classes close to me where I live now. At any rate, it was amazing to me how easily I could pick up on the influence of the other systems that were blended with WC. This particular branch of JKD focuses more on Kali/Escrima but, after forcing myself out of my "WC mind," I was able to pick up on it pretty easily.


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## Buka (Apr 28, 2017)

I've always liked, pure, classical Hodgepodge Smorgasborg Mishmash-Fu-Do. Thinking of getting rainbow belts as we speak. Maybe with buttons, even.


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## Bill Mattocks (Apr 28, 2017)

wingchun100 said:


> What do you think? Do you think the style you currently study has all the answers you need? Do you see gaps that could be filled in by other arts?



I think that *I am not qualified *to say if there are gaps in the style I train in.  I haven't trained long enough to know.

I do know that *whenever I think I see a gap*, more training, asking my instructor, and patient retraining after painful tuition have shown me the error of my assumptions, at least to date.

When the day comes, assuming it ever does, that I feel the art I study does not adequately teach what I want to learn, I will consider learning something else.  Until then, I simply continue to train in the style I have come to love and appreciate.

People speak of being well-rounded.  Believe me, I am quite round.  I don't need to be rounder.  I could use a few angles, in fact.    Seriously, though, everyone seems to assume they know what all martial artists want, and that thing is to be well-versed in self-defense in any environment.  Look at me!  I can fight on the ground, I can punch and kick, I can grapple, I can float in the air!  Well, maybe not that last bit.

If that's what you want, then great.  More power to you.  Take two from column A and three from column B, toss in your own made-up techniques and call it your personal style.  All good.  It's not what I want.  And that has to be OK, because I don't care if anyone likes it or not.  

So to more fully answer your question.  Does the style I study have all the answers?  No. All the answers I need?  So far.  Do I see gaps that could be filled by other arts?  I'm not qualified to answer that question.  I presume other arts are quite good and I have full respect for them and the students of those arts.  That's not my path.

Let me put it another way.  Esperanto is a fun language.  It's artificial, made up of various parts of other languages.  Had a brief heyday in the 1960s and 1970s.  William Shatner even starred in a movie that was filmed in Esperanto, and he spoke Esperanto in it!  How cool!

Is it better than any other language?  If it is, why don't we all speak it?


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## blindsage (May 1, 2017)

Every style is a hybrid.


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## Steve (May 1, 2017)

I don't have a problem with anyone choosing to be loyal to a style they enjoy.  But I also don't consider all hybrid arts to be artificial fads.


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