# A few taichi tips



## Zeny (Dec 30, 2015)

i'm going to use this thread to share some useful taichi tips i've picked up during my taichi journey. I am not sure whether i am correct or not, so it is best that the reader critically assess my ideas and decide for themselves whether these tips are helpful in their taichi training.

Taichi is difficult to understand. There are people who trained for many years but fail to grasp the basic concepts of taichi. They may do the form and to the untrained eye their form may look like taichi, but to a taichi practitioner who has a proper understanding of the correct concepts that form may be deficient in so many ways that it looks only like a child's drawing.

Taichi is an extremely deep subject, but any discussion of taichi must start with the word 'sung'. What is 'sung'? Roughly translated to English it means 'relax', but sung is more than just relax. If i ask you to relax (untense) your arm, i'm pretty sure you can do it immediately and without much difficulty. Therefore you may have achieved 'relaxation' but yet you are not sung. To be sung it takes time. The human body is extremely amazing. If you train strength in a gym your muscles become bigger and hard over time. But if you train relaxation your muscles become soft and pliable over time. This soft and pliable muscle, achieved through years of relaxation training, is what is actually meant by 'sung'.

Therefore one must view taichi like a journey. One cannot simply 'understand' taichi and immediately becomes able to 'do' taichi. Like an artist who seeks to draw a better picture every day, the taichi practitioner trains relaxation every day in order to improve their sung. And only 'sung' can open the door for the taichi practitioner to perform advanced taichi techniques such as 'use 4 ounces to deflect a thousand pounds'. Once a sufficient level of 'sung' is achieved one will find that these so-called advanced techniques are actually not that difficult. Thus whenever a taichi practitioner begins their training session, the word 'sung' must be at the forefront of their mind.

To be continued.


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## mograph (Dec 30, 2015)

You're pretty close on the meaning of "sung."

Regarding "soft and pliable" muscles, our muscles already are soft and pliable when we're not tensing them, so I think you refer to the state of muscles while resisting or applying force? I understand it this way: if force is distributed through the body and the body's structure is aligned well, then _individual_ muscles do less work and are thus less tense. So they would feel soft to someone who tests them by squeezing: the more distribution, the less work done by each muscle, and the less tense each muscle would be in order to apply/resist force.

Sung, to me, is also being alert and open, ready to move in any direction, calm, not committing to any expected response. For example, someone expecting to step right will probably tense the left leg, expecting to push off from there: this is not sung, and other movements would require that you un-tense in order to move. So if you are not committed, you won't tense, and you can be ready to go wherever the situation dictates.

My image of sung is not "down" by gravity, but "out." It's been said that the character represents long hair that has been unbound, and that works for me. There is imagined space between the body components, nothing is tensed, nothing is tied up, nothing is bound, all is expanded ... slightly. Alert and calm.

Yes, once you are "sung," the advanced techniques feel more natural. In my experience, the reaction has been "oh, it _that_ it? It feels too easy." But we have to overcome a few paradigms to get there.

Make sense?


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## Zeny (Dec 30, 2015)

Thanks for your contribution mograph. Your description of sung is spot-on and I have no issue with it. I hope more people would contribute to this thread as i believe no one can rightfully say all his ideas are correct and thus any contradicting idea must be wrong. The most important thing is we all improve ourselves, or if not, at least what we write makes for an entertaining read.

Regarding your question, a relaxed muscle is soft and pliable, yes, but as i have said one may have achieved relaxation but yet one is still not sung. A sung muscle is a muscle quality that can only be achieved through years of training.

Let me put it in another way. Suppose today i unbind my long hair. The way my long hair flows down without any tension means i am relaxed. But what i am doing today is only the first day of relaxation training. On this day i have yet to achieve sung. Suppose that i continue to unbind my long hair every day, for another 1,000, 2,000 or 3,000 days. At each point the 'quality' of my hair changes such that at the end of the 3,000 days, my hair no longer feels the same to the touch. In other words, the hair i have now is no longer the same hair that i have 3,000 days ago. This is what is meant by sung. It is soft and pliable by training, not merely by doing.

If the first word in any taichi discussion is 'sung', then the second word must be 'chen' (sink). I will deal with this in the next post.


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## Zeny (Dec 31, 2015)

The word 'chen' simply means sink. The ability to sink is a fundamental taichi skill, and sinking directly affects one's ability to perform 'fajin' (releasing skill), and indirectly assists in one's ability to perform 'huajin' (deflecting skill). Sinking is also commonly called 'rooting', and these two words actually mean the same thing. To sink means to have root.

Personally, i prefer to use the word 'sink' as it more accurately describes what is felt by the body when one acquires some level of skill in sinking. When one 'sinks' or gains 'root', the body does not actually feel like it is growing root into the ground beneath the feet (like plants). Therefore to call it 'rooting' may sometimes be misleading.

It is fascinating to think that even though it is such a fundamental skill in taichi (i treat it as second in importance, after sung), very little if at all attention is paid to sinking in many other martial arts. It is common for non-taichi practitioners to think that to sink means to have a low and stable stance. In fact sinking has nothing to do with the height of one's stance. A taichi practitioner is perfectly capable of sinking when standing upright. Sinking also has nothing to do with one's weight either, one can be fat and not sink and also thin and sink.

Sinking is an internal skill (what happens inside our body), and we cannot tell how good a person is at sinking only by looking. The only way to tell is by actual skin to skin contact. My next post will go deeper into this subject.


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## Zeny (Dec 31, 2015)

Mograph, thanks for all the likes, your encouragement is really driving me to post regularly!


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## mograph (Dec 31, 2015)

Zeny said:


> Mograph, thanks for all the likes, your encouragement is really driving me to post regularly!


No worries!



Zeny said:


> It is common for non-taichi practitioners to think that to sink means to have a low and stable stance. In fact sinking has nothing to do with the height of one's stance. A taichi practitioner is perfectly capable of sinking when standing upright.


Agreed.


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## 23rdwave (Dec 31, 2015)

In my yi quan practice we describe "sinking" as the elevator going down. The building stays the same but the elevator goes up and down. I also think of it like dropping an alka seltzer in a glass of water. The tablet sinks while the bubbles rise.


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## Zeny (Jan 1, 2016)

Once the word 'sink' is not misunderstood, the next step is to figure out how to train it. On this point there are good news and bad news. The good news is that sinking can be trained easily, but the bad news is that it takes a long time. To give you some idea, 3,000 days of training probably gets you around intermediate level. You can train a very long time in sinking but you still will not 'max out' your ability. You will find that even after 30 years of training there is still room for improvement (though not many people would have presevered with their training enough to reach this level).

Sinking is not trained directly, but indirectly. To sung is to chen. In other words, a sung muscle will automatically chen. Like in my previous long hair example, hair which is unbound will automatically flow down. Therefore one need not worry about training chen, it is only necessary to train sung (unbind the hair). The better you sung, the better you chen. Let's say you can quantify your progress in sung with numbers. If you achieve 1,000 points of sung, you will get 1,000 points of chen, for free. Basically it is buy one free one.

When training sung, one must view the human body as separate components. We have eyes, mouth, neck, shoulders, chest, back, arms, hands, fingers, etc. In normal human beings, these components will have different levels of sung. For example, your arms can be quite sung but your neck can be hard and tense. Suppose after you add up the points of sung in each component, you reach a total of 200 points of sung. Then you started relaxing your neck and after some time (note i keep emphasing the time element), your neck improves in sung. This will add further points to your overall sung (let's say 10 points) so you now have 210 points of sung (and also 210 points of chen, remember what i said above). You now have better root than before.

I agree with what was said by 23rdwave above, but i would describe it differently. Let's say the human body is a 5 storey building. A piece of muscle in the 5th (highest) storey is trained and becomes sung, so it sinks into the 4th storey. It is common for people who achieve this to say, 'see? I am sung, my muscle has that sinking feeling' and stop progressing. They thought that by reaching the 4th storey they have already reached the destination. The reality is that they have only seen the tip of the iceberg. To put it in another way, that particular piece of muscle has only reached 20 percent of its full potential.

Merely sinking to the 4th storey is not enough. One should practise until the same piece of muscle could sink from the 5th storey all the way down to the 1st storey and (this is not yet the end) sink further down until the muscle felt like it has disappeared into a hole in the ground underneath the feet. That is the true final point we must reach. Now imagine the human body has 1,000 pieces of muscle, all of which must be trained until they sink and disappear into that hole. This gives you an idea why taichi is a long journey and training sung seems like walking along a neverending path.

So if you need only train sung to achieve chen, what is the best way to train sung? This will come next.


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## Xue Sheng (Jan 1, 2016)

This was all  be summed up (by a Aikido Sensei) very easily and in few words by Koichi Tohei, student of Morihei Ueshiba. Or at least it summed it up for me.

"all weight is underside"

You will find sinking and sung in Taijiquan, Baguazhang, Xingyiquan and Yiquan and I would not be surprised if you found it in Liuhebafa too


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## Zeny (Jan 1, 2016)

How to sung? That is the million dollar question, and the question that every taichi practitioner will ask at some point during their training. Today I will give you the answer.

Given that it takes many years to achieve sufficient sung, it is in our best interests to find out exactly how we should practise sung in order to maximise the benefit that each minute of our practice time brings. There is no shortcut, but instead of 3,000 days, if we can achieve the same level in 2,700 days, we would have saved 300 days which could then be spent on other beneficial activities, like family time or ice cream.

Sung can be trained by simply ‘moving’ in a ‘correct' way. ‘Moving’ means literally moving (that is, not staying still). A muscle that is not moving will tense and become hard over time. A muscle that is constantly moving will become relaxed and sung over time. This should be quite easy to understand.

What then is the ‘correct’ way to move? Let me try my best to describe. You can move your arm (and other parts of the body) in two main ways. The first way is this. Try clenching a fist, and do a fast punch. Here your hand and arms are moved in a ‘positive’ (yang) manner in that one direction. The other way is this. Suppose your hand is holding a cup of coffee filled to the brim. Slowly lower the cup onto the table. Notice that this second manner is movement is more ‘negative’ (yin) and is different from the first manner of movement. This second manner of movement is the correct way to practise sung in taichi.

Taichi practitioners should be familiar with moving in that ‘negative’ manner. They may already be doing this ‘negative’ movement in their forms without realising what it is and what they are actually doing. Because of this, their forms would usually be a mixture of ‘positive’ and ‘negative’ movements. A certain posture may start with a ‘negative’ movement, but end with a ‘positive’ movement. Or it could be that the upper half of the body is moved in a ‘negative’ manner, but the lower half (legs and feet) are moved in a ‘positive’ manner. It is important for taichi practitioners to differentiate between these two manners of movement, and try to practise their form using 100% ‘negative’ movement (that is, move 'negatively' at all times and at all parts of the body).

A side effect of the above theory is likely to be controversial. Because sung is trained and achieved through actual movement, it is not necessary for a taichi practitioner to practise ‘zhan zhuang’ (standing meditation).

Next I will give you a very simple exercise that anyone can do to practise sung at their neck muscles.


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## mograph (Jan 1, 2016)

Xue Sheng said:


> "all weight is underside"


Indeed.

Ki Principles by Koichi Tohei - ki-aikido.de


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## ChenAn (Jan 1, 2016)

"Sung" simply means not stagnant. 



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## Zeny (Jan 1, 2016)

I like to use the neck as an example because it is an often neglected component of the human body in taichi practice. Anyone can do this simple exercise to sung the neck. When doing the following exercise, ensure that the movement is (1) relaxed (2) slow and (3) negative (yin).

1) first stand upright in a relaxed manner

2) tilt the head forwards and downwards (at this point the eyes would be looking at the floor)

3) turn the head to the left

4) turn the head to the back (at this point the eyes would be looking upwards at the ceiling)

5) turn the head to the right

6) turn the head to the front (coming back to the same position at (2) above)

7) reverse the motion

As with the taichi form and other exercises, this exercise should be done daily. After a long period of time, the tense muscles at the neck will slowly become sung and sink down from the 5th storey to the 4th storey, and so on.

So once we achieve some sung (and chen), how do we use our chen in push hands or to defeat our opponent? this will come in the next post. But before that, would anyone like to describe how they use their chen in push hands practice?


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## ChenAn (Jan 1, 2016)

I'm not sure Zeny what do you define as "tai chi". There several main taiji methods and different less known variations. 
Relaxed state of the body is very popular term; however, in many traditional taiji methods it's not even mentioned. What mentioned; however,  is different relationships between yin and yang. One of the most fundamental taiji principles is a "peng jin". If you fully relax you won't have it. So there are certain ratio of yin and yang involved in order to maintain  "peng jin". And it consist not only of relaxation.

Traditional Yang and Chen families of taijiquan  are very similar in this respect. Unfortunately most of traditional knowledge was "washed" out which left us with very confusing definitions of so called "tai chi classic " which everyone interpret own way.


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## Xue Sheng (Jan 1, 2016)

Zeny. if I may ask, what style of taijiquan do you train?


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## Zeny (Jan 1, 2016)

ChenAn, would you like to give a more detailed description of this 'peng jin' and how does one perform this 'peng jin'?

Xue, i don't like to get into discussions of one style vs another, but simply to answer your question, my taichi is the southeast asian huang style, which is descended from cheng man ming style, which in turn is descended from the yang style. Wee kee jin is a senior practitioner of this style. What about yours?

The views and ideas i express in this thread are my own and do not necessarily represent the views and ideas of my teacher, my style or other practitioners of my style. As i have said above, these views and ideas are not necessarily correct and should be assessed critically.


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## ChenAn (Jan 2, 2016)

Zeny, the best way to describe "peng jin" is to show it. Peng jin is not performed it exists within body structure .



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## Zeny (Jan 2, 2016)

How does one use or manifest this 'peng jin' and how does some measure of tension assist to create 'peng jin'?


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## mograph (Jan 2, 2016)

Zeny, please consider these descriptions of _peng_ (pronounced "pung"):

The Five Most Important Taijiquan Skills for Beginners: Peng Jin and Ding Jin
8 Energies (Ba Jin) of Taijiquan

Personally, I relate to the idea of an inflated rubber ball, and believe that Zhan Zhuang practice can help develop peng.
The other followers of the thread may be able to offer better explanations.


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## ChenAn (Jan 2, 2016)

Well really easy you either have peng jin or don't  Prerequisites to develop peng jin usually comes with special exercises/drills. I can't tell for other methods only for one introduced to me. 


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## ChenAn (Jan 2, 2016)

Inflated rubber ball is on of the way to interpret peng jin. But I  also found this analogy can be understood in different ways. For example Wan Haizhun description above (represented by Chen Zhenglei lineage) a bit different from Chen method represented by Chen Zhaokui lineage.( mostly folks in Beijing )

Similarly to concept of "sinking" which in my method described simply as xia zhong  interpreted differently within different branches of Chen family taiji


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## Zeny (Jan 2, 2016)

Thanks for the articles on 'peng jin'. They are interesting and thought provoking. The wang hai jun article is especially well written.

Since we are on this subject of 'peng jin', let me digress a little bit from my original intended flow. It is fascinating to think that we may both be practising an art called 'taichi' and yet our methods are so different that our respective art cannot be the one and the same. Then in these circumstances please don't regard what i say as 'tips', but rather a story told by someone living in a far away land.

In the wang article it is said that it is necessary for the body to be sung and  'connected' to achieve 'peng jin'. Thus this 'connectedness' is an important element. The art of taichi as i practise it emphasises 'disconnectedness' instead. This will definitely come as a surprise to those who have been training connectedness in their taichi. Let me explain.

When i write i intentionally refrain from explaining things from a classical perspective. My ideas should be much easier to grasp if i write as much as possible in plain every day english.

Prior to practising taichi the human body starts out as a piece of rock. The first step in taichi practice is to use a hammer and split the rock into two pieces. Next is to crush the two pieces into four pieces, then eight, and so on. The desired end result is for the rock to be transformed into many grains of fine sand. Each grain of sand exists independently and is not connected to any other grain of sand. Once the body has been transformed into fine sand (not literally of course), i will attack and defend as sand. If i hit you with a piece of wood you can block or deflect it. If i grab a bunch of sand and throw them at you how do you defend it? If you push my upper chest only the sand at the area pushed is affected. The sand at the other body parts (such as waist and feet) are totally unaffected by the push. Thus the push does nothing at all to my root.

My next post will further explain this subject.


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## Xue Sheng (Jan 2, 2016)

Zeny said:


> The art of taichi as i practise it emphasises 'disconnectedness' instead. This will definitely come as a surprise to those who have been training connectedness in their taichi. Let me explain.



And what style of Taijiquan might that be, that  you practice, that emphasizes disconnectedness?


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## Zeny (Jan 2, 2016)

Huang style

I noticed a typo in my earlier post. I mean to say cheng man ching, not cheng man ming.


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## Xue Sheng (Jan 2, 2016)

If that is from Huang Sheng Shyan, then that comes from Zheng Manqing (Cheng Manching), who did not teach disconnectedness. Where did this disconnectedness come from?


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## Zeny (Jan 2, 2016)

I was taught disconnectedness by a senior practitioner of the huang style. However there is disagreement even among huang style practitioners on what is the correct manner of practice. This is why i said earlier that my views do not necessarily represent the views of other practitioners of my style.

I would however respectfully disagree with you that huang sheng shyan did not teach disconnectedness. The senior practitioner i learnt disconnectedness from is a direct and senior student of huang sheng shyan. The rock example that i gave you above comes from another direct and senior student of huang sheng shyan. I did not invent this particular example myself.

But let's not have this thread become a discussion about styles. Like i said these are my personal ideas and you are welcome to view them with a critical eye. If you disagree with them please do share your views. I would love to hear personal experiences of 'peng jin' from the followers of this thread.


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## Xue Sheng (Jan 2, 2016)

Not looking to argue, looking for clarification and generally that starts with style, mine, by the way, is Yang from a student of Tung Ying Chieh, also trained some Chen, a little of that (very little) with Chen Zhenglei

I however do not agree with anything referred to as disconnectedness in Taijiquan, without connection to your root you have nothing, IMO and discussion about the training of sung or chen are premature without connection and pengjin would be impossible if one were disconnected.

But I have been reading your posts, some I agree, some I do not, that is human nature.


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## Zeny (Jan 2, 2016)

To continue on from my previous post on disconnectedness, once you have achieved sufficient sung, chen, negative movement and disconnectedness, it is time to figure out how to use them to perform 'fajin'. After all, you have worked hard to earn a lot of money, now is the time to spend them.

'Fajin' is the most elementary of taichi skills, but one most desired by taichi practitioners. Who wouldn't want to push a person and have that person bounce back 2-3 metres with little effort. However it is the most elementary because with correct practice, one will definitely acquire this skill, it is just a matter of time. Problem is, even if you master this skill, it is completely useless against a person who has mastered 'huajin', as you cannot apply force onto empty space. Thus in terms of hierarchy, 'huajin' is the higher level skill, and the one which is more difficult to train and acquire.

To understand fajin, let's imagine you have no taichi training. When you push someone, your hands would be connected to your elbows, and the elbows would be connected to your shoulders. The push would then be performed with the combined effort of the muscles of these three components of the human body. With more training in pushing, you will also begin to use the muscles of the body, waist and feet at the same time to produce an even bigger force. However, this is not fajin. To perform fajin, one must push using a completely different method.

What then is this elusive 'fajin' method? This will come in the next post.


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## Zeny (Jan 2, 2016)

To perform fajin one must have root (chen). To have root one must have sung. The more sung one acquires the better is one’s chen. The better is one’s chen, the better can one fajin. To bounce someone 2-3 metres, one’s chen must be better than the opponent. You cannot bounce someone who has a better chen than you.

Here’s a simple exercise one can carry out with a partner to ‘feel’ the correct method of fajin. This exercise assumes you have a pretty decent root. If you have little or no root this exercise will not show you anything. Find someone who has a lesser root than you, or someone who has no root. It doesn’t matter how good is your partner’s root, as long as it is less good than yours. As an example, let’s say you have 300 points of root, your partner’s root can be 290 points or below.

Now follow these steps:

1) Have your partner stand in front of you. They can tense up or relax and sink, it doesn’t matter (though they will be easier to bounce if they tense up). Until you have successfully ‘felt’ how to fajin, simply ask them to stand upright. After you have ‘felt’ and know how to fajin, your partner can use a more stable stance, it doesn’t matter at that point.

2) Stand upright, relax and sink.

3) Raise your arms, extend your fingers and place all 10 fingers on your partner’s upper chest, with only your fingertips touching your partner (if your partner is female, ask them to hug themselves and place your 10 fingers on her folded arms)

4) Now slowly, gently and most importantly, ‘negatively’ (read my coffee cup example in an earlier post) extend your arms and fingers in the direction of your partner. Your shoulders, elbow, wrist, and fingers must all be sung and ‘disconnected’ (like a metal chain, and not like a stick or acting as one unit)

5) If done correctly, you will feel as if your partner has no root at all and you can ‘tip’ them over. The feeling is as if your partner is an empty coke bottle and when you lightly touch the bottle, the bottle ’tips' over and falls.

Once you are very familiar with this alternative method of pushing, and once you have trained enough to be able to move ‘negatively' with speed, this exercise can be done with the palm of your hands and with greater speed. At this point, anyone who has less root than you can be bounced easily and with little effort, no matter what their stance is (low, high, stable etc). You will feel like your opponent is an empty coke bottle and can be flung easily and without using any force at all.

My next post will explain how to 'supercharge' your fajin.


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## ChenAn (Jan 2, 2016)

In my understanding in order to perform fajin one must posses jins first. Most people demonstrating fali and thinking that is fajin. 
Again definition of sung is very deceptive. I like comparison  with disconnectedness more. Why ?Because it represent complex realashsonihip between yin and yang. Disconnected relationship may connected in certain order to fold or generate power.


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## Zeny (Jan 2, 2016)

The 'supercharge' post will come after this. Let me digress a bit. As i said above fajin requires sung, chen, negative movement and disconnectedness. Why is disconnectedness also a requirement? Let me explain.

Fajin requires root, and root comes from sung. If you connect your shoulders all the way to your fingertips, you are creating tension and this raises your center of gravity and destroys your root. If your partner has a decent root, your push will be absorbed by your partner's root and channelled to the ground. To overcome your partner's root, you need to start using more and more force with your arms and upper body and this is no longer fajin.

On the other hand, if your partner connects his arms or upper body, he raises his centre of gravity and destroys his own root. If he does this, he can be bounced with even less effort (not that it requires a lot of effort in the first place!). You can ask your partner to try consciously connecting his arms (he need not do anything with the arms) when trying the above fajin exercise and feel the end result. You will realise that every point of chen counts and you don't want to do anything to reduce it.

A connected push can also be deflected very easily with 'huajin'. It is much harder to deflect a push from an arm that is like a metal chain. Once you reach the 'sand' level arm, only a practitioner with a better 'sand' level arm can deflect your push. Once i explain the mechanics of 'huajin' in future posts you will see why this is so.

Taichi takes self defence very seriously. A lot of training and effort is put in to ensure that your push (or attack) is not deflected. If your push is deflected even once, it is game over because you will not be able to defend the inevitable counterattack. A connected arm is much easier to deflect as well as rendering oneself vulnerable to the application of 'lianjin' by the opponent. From a classical perspective, this 'lianjin' is one of the four skills of taichi push hands (zhan, nian, lian, sui). I will explain what is 'lianjin' in a future post as that deserves a separate discussion on its own.


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## ChenAn (Jan 2, 2016)

I think Zeny made a good point. As I mentioned before traditional taiji got washed out. All is left is health aspect and push hands practice that involves some degree of cooperation. 

A "sung" practitioner who get punched for example to the rib will suffered more unfortunate consequences. This is greatly due to loss of traditional training where tui shou serves purpose of developing certain skill set, not ultimate combat achievement . Sung in tui shou won't punish your incapable to receive punch body .

In self defense scenario it's unlikely that opponent will commit in the most convenient way to taiji practitioner. People who ever competed most likely aware of this.

So for the most part contemporary taiji other than for health purposes can only serve as supplemental training to other martial art.

A good example of it could be competitions that took place year or so ago when young Chen fighters were sent to compete against Muay Thai fighters. In order to prevail in martial art arena Chen fighter had actually learn boxing and kicks - exact part that their family art at current stage cannot offer. 

Back to taiji tips. Sung is the great concept; however, one can sink without being completely relaxed. There are many internal  martial arts that never emphasize "relaxed" state as it understood by taiji practitioners. 

The only Chen family scholar who ever layout all theoretical  work for Chen family gong fu - Chen Xin has never mention "relaxation". Although he emphasized sansijin (silk reeling) and complex relationships between yin and yang. For example in pure state of yin taiji practitioner simply collapse. Therefore there should be yang within yin. 

Peng jin - the most fundamental jin in taiji arsenal, when achieved, can easily recycle incoming energy and send it back to the aggressor. That was Cheng Manching impressively demonstrated in his time. Nevertheless, peng jin is one of many jins that serves verity of purposes. It's important but not sufficient for well rounded taiji fighter.

So the bottom line. While "tai chi tips" may represent particular branch of taiji method. I think it can hardly speak for the whole taiji. There are many contemporary taiji masters that never  even tried their skill in actual combat and they only serve purpose of tradition transmitters limited only to their own understanding. So we have what we have.

P. S. Sorry for the long post





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## Xue Sheng (Jan 2, 2016)

ChenAn said:


> In my understanding in order to perform fajin one must posses jins first. Most people demonstrating fali and thinking that is fajin.
> Again definition of sung is very deceptive. I like comparison  with disconnectedness more. Why ?Because it represent complex realashsonihip between yin and yang. Disconnected relationship may connected in certain order to fold or generate power.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Define Fali
Define Fajin

Chen Zhenglei





Also I do not see the relationship between Yin and Yang that as disconnected, they are part of the same thing. You cannot have one without the other and when you have to much of one it becomes the other


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## ChenAn (Jan 2, 2016)

Xu Sheng, 
For simplicity I'm going to use analogy  of the huge clock which consists of multiple gears and connection. By itself they represent different units. Those units must be operational on their own. Consider this state as disconnected set of gears.

In order for clock to work all those gears must work in certain order/sequence. 

If you can use all of those gears you poses fali - refine physical force.

if you can use all those gears in order which make clock works this is fajin - internal power.

Thanks for CZL video. I managed to meet all "four tigers" except Wan Xian.  

I used to be CZL lineage, but I no longer practice village version.


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## Zeny (Jan 2, 2016)

Thanks for the chen zhenglei video. This manner of fajin is different from my manner of fajin so I will not comment on it.

The fajin as i practise it emphasises sung, root and softness. When i push my partner's body, they feel some movement, but no force, and they are flung 2-3 metres away. There is no tensing or hardening of the arms upon contact, the arms stay sung and soft throughout. I have explained the mechanics of it above and it is up to the reader to explore it if they want to. What i said explains in plain english the taichi classics which say:

"Rooted in the feet
Generated from the legs
Controlled by the waist
Manifested through the fingers"

My upcoming  'supercharging' post will explain "fajin is like shooting an arrow".


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## Zeny (Jan 2, 2016)

Why is fajin like shooting an arrow? To shoot an arrow you first need to draw the bow, take aim and only then release the arrow. Without drawing the bow, the arrow cannot be shot or even if shot, it will have no energy.

In my exercise above i asked you to stand upright. That exercise is designed to allow you to 'feel' the correct method of pushing, not for you to actually perform full fajin.

To actually fajin, you need to sung your whole body totally, then do the forward stance (as in the ji (press) posture of the form), then slightly and directly lower your waist (thus lowering your stance, like a lift going down). Lowering the stance means drawing the bow. At this point pay attention to your lower legs (the part between the knee and the feet). Consciously make sure that part is completely sung. After that activate 'houjin' (rear energy) by straightening the rear leg (your stance will now rise in height). As you perform 'houjin' extend your arms and palms at your partner's centre of gravity (aiming the arrow) in a sung and disconnected manner and with negative movement. If you do this correctly you will feel that your partner is extremely light and floating and can be flung with no muscular effort or difficulty. On the other hand your partner will feel that you have even better chen, like 300 points going to 400 points.

Performing 'houjin' is what is meant by energy is 'generated from the legs'. Closing the distance between you and your partner by moving the waist is what is meant by 'controlled by the waist'.

My next post will talk about 'lianjin' of zhan, nian, lian, sui and how to use this in conjunction with fajin.


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## Xue Sheng (Jan 3, 2016)

ChenAn said:


> Xu Sheng,
> For simplicity I'm going to use analogy  of the huge clock which consists of multiple gears and connection. By itself they represent different units. Those units must be operational on their own. Consider this state as disconnected set of gears.
> 
> In order for clock to work all those gears must work in certain order/sequence.
> ...



Thank You, interesting analogy

I have meant only 1 of the four tigers and talked with a student of another. I meant and trained with CZL (never in the lineage though, I'm in a Lineage from Tung Ying Chieh - Yang style) and had a great conversation with Ren Guangxi (Student of CXW)


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## Xue Sheng (Jan 3, 2016)

Zeny said:


> "Rooted in the feet
> Generated from the legs
> Controlled by the waist
> Manifested through the fingers"



That is connected and that is what Chen Zhenglei is doing


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## mograph (Jan 3, 2016)

I think that Zeny uses "connected" to mean "stiff" or "rigid," right?

... while to the rest of us, "connected" means that the connected components accept feedback from each other (through proprioception, usually) but remain flexible: moving at joints (yin, perhaps), yet also able to align in order to transmit force when necessary (yang, most likely).

Similarly, "disconnected" implies an inability to transmit/receive feedback between components. This sacrifices a unified, ground-to-hand application of force when necessary. For example, we often see this disconnection when practitioners stop the waist & legs while continuing to move the arms: this is a gross application of the principle, while the fine application relates to sensitivity between components.

I recommend that, since communication is the goal of analogies, that we maintain the existing usage of "connected" (working together) and "disconnected" (not working together) in our analogies.


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## Zeny (Jan 3, 2016)

Mograph, when i use the word 'disconnected' i literally mean that the joints are moving together (coordinated) but at the same time not connected to one another. For example if you touch my hand, you won't be able to feel or affect my elbow or shoulder. Only my hand is affected by your touch. At the same time the joints need not align to transmit force or to push someone. When you are able to do this, the benefits of the root will be fully utilised and you will be amazed by the subsequent applications. In my experience, it is not easy and indeed, not many are able to achieve this.

Let me illustrate what i mean. Imagine your arm is a rope. If you push one end of the rope, only that end is moved, the rest of the rope is not affected by your push. But a rope is 'dead', if you hold one end of the rope and raise it, the rest will fall to the ground due to gravity. Thus the rope cannot push someone. However the human body is not 'dead'. It can be sung but at the same time it is kept in the air (and not drop down) by our 'yi' (mind intend). Thus the human arm can be trained to become a 'live' rope that can push. There is no need to wrap the rope around a stick to push. That is why the classics say 'use yi and not li'.

CZL certainly believes in what he is doing and i have no quarrel with that. His is a different art than mine and his fajin certainly looks like it can seriously hurt someone. Any cat that can catch a mouse is a good cat. But what i am offering you is the story that we do it differently in our little corner of the world. We never practise 'peng jin' the way you understood it. We put a great deal of practice into breaking down our body into smaller components. And once we are able to do this, we find that what we can do subsequently during push hands is very interesting.


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## zzj (Jan 3, 2016)

Zeny, while you are making actively making the distinction between your style (from Huang Sheng Shyan if i read correctly) and that of the Chen Village style, I don't really feel that what you are describing is different to what I am learning. You seem to imply that there is physical alignment of the body joints in order to issue force, where that would run counter to the idea that our structure is held by peng jin. Connected-ness as I understand it refers to the flow of 'qi' from the root to point of contact to manifest jin, and certainly not connecting the physical body in a 'stick' way. If you are referring to the physical structure of the body, than the Chen style I am learning is also 'disconnected', so it seems the difference is more in the explanation.


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## Zeny (Jan 3, 2016)

Zzj, i have no knowledge or experience on the chen style so i am not qualified to comment on any of their methods. The discussion on this thread seems to have turned into a discussion of the chen style because it seems that that is the style practised by many readers of this thread. Whatever i say must be viewed in this light.

Yes i am saying that the physical body structure is disconnected. I have not gone into the subject of 'qi' yet.


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## zzj (Jan 3, 2016)

Zeny said:


> Zzj, i have no knowledge or experience on the chen style so i am not qualified to comment on any of their methods. The discussion on this thread seems to have turned into a discussion of the chen style because it seems that that is the style practised by many readers of this thread. Whatever i say must be viewed in this light.
> 
> Yes i am saying that the physical body structure is disconnected. I have not gone into the subject of 'qi' yet.



Fair enough, I still think the core principles of what works in Tai Chi is still the same no matter the style, but the method of transmission varies. I am not criticizing anything thus far, in fact it may be useful to consider different points of view when it comes to understanding and applying the principles.


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## ChenAn (Jan 4, 2016)

Here how did "upright" look in traditional taiji back in the days


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## Zeny (Jan 4, 2016)

That looks so weird!


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## Xue Sheng (Jan 4, 2016)

Zeny said:


> Zzj, i have no knowledge or experience on the chen style so i am not qualified to comment on any of their methods. The discussion on this thread seems to have turned into a discussion of the chen style because it seems that that is the style practised by many readers of this thread. Whatever i say must be viewed in this light.
> 
> Yes i am saying that the physical body structure is disconnected. I have not gone into the subject of 'qi' yet.



Actually, I'm Yang style.

Push hands from the son of my Sigong's oldest son






I have also trained a bit of Chen as well as a bit of the style that comes from Cheng Manching


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## Zeny (Jan 4, 2016)

Great video, love the fajin at 0:24. The fajin that we do is the almost the same, the only difference is our body is upright instead of leaning forward. The taichi in the video is consistent with my taichi in all material respects.

In this post I will talk about ‘lianjin’ (connecting skill). Lianjin is one of the four skills in taichi push hands (zhan, nian, lian, sui). To lian means to connect. Lianjin is applied on our opponent, not ourselves. When we practise taichi we seek to disconnect our own structure, and to connect our opponent’s structure. What does this mean? Let me explain.

Imagine that our opponent is a ceramic cup (upper body) with a handle (arm), and the cup is glued on top of a small stool (lower body or legs). If we want to push the cup, we need not push the body of the cup. The cup (and also the stool) can be moved by us merely pushing the tip of the handle. The handle connects to the cup, and the cup connects to the stool, and by pushing the tip of the handle, movement can be applied to both the cup and the stool.

In other words, if our opponent’s wrist is connected to his elbow, and his elbow is connected to his shoulder, we can simply push our opponent’s hand to apply movement to his shoulder. If his shoulders are connected to his feet, then by simply pushing our opponent’s hand we can apply movement to our opponent’s feet and uproot them. Of course the handle of the cup is static, while our opponent’s hand is moving. But with sufficient practice, this lianjin can be applied onto our opponent subconsciously and without much difficulty. The same goes for ‘nianjin’ (sticking skill). When we practise nianjin it may be difficult at first because our opponent’s arms are always moving. But with sufficient practice, both sticking and connecting will become second nature.

What about our own cup? We must disconnect the handle from our cup, and disconnect our cup from the stool. So if the handle is pushed, only the handle is affected by the movement, while the cup and the stool remain unaffected. The separation of the cup (upper body) and the stool (lower body) at the contact point (waist) is the first step in taichi disconnection practice. This step is called ‘xu ling ding jin’. Practitioners who are familiar with ‘xu ling ding jin’ will recall that when they practise this, they are asked to sung and chen but at the same time they have to imagine that their head is suspended from the ceiling with a string. This opposite movement (up and down) allows the upper body to be disconnected from the lower body at the waist (splitting the rock into two pieces).

How does ‘lianjin’ assist in ‘fajin’? Lianjin allows for a bigger area for us to fajin. Our fajin contact point need not be a point in the upper body. With lianjin, you can apply fajin on any part of our opponent's connected arm because by pushing the arm you are pushing the body (and the legs).

My next post will give you some more tips on how to disconnect the handle from our cup when pushing.


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## Zeny (Jan 4, 2016)

Continuing from my above post, because i love the fajin at 0:24 in the video, i will make use of that fajin to illustrate how to push with a disconnected arm.

At 0:24 in the video the master extended his arms and palms with speed onto the student's chest and caused him to jump back several metres. There are two ways the master could have done this.

The first is to push the student with a connected structure. In other words, the wrist is connected to the elbow, and the elbow is connected to the shoulders, and so on. It would not be misleading to call this manner of pushing as using whole body force, i.e. the whole body working together as one unit to produce a concentrated force, like how you would push a car with a flat tyre.

The second is to push with a disconnected structure. How does one do this? Instead of moving your shoulders, elbow and wrist at the same time, try do it in sequence of 1.... 2.... 3..... In other words, first move the shoulder, then move the elbow, then move the wrist. Do this with sung and 'negative' movement, recall my coffee cup example earlier. With sufficient practice the negative movement will become second nature and can be done with speed.

I will let the reader decide for themselves which manner of pushing will create the effect as shown in the video.

Next post i will talk about 'chi' or 'qi'.


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## Xue Sheng (Jan 4, 2016)

Zeny said:


> Continuing from my above post, because i love the fajin at 0:24 in the video, i will make use of that fajin to illustrate how to push with a disconnected arm.
> 
> At 0:24 in the video the master extended his arms and palms with speed onto the student's chest and caused him to jump back several metres. There are two ways the master could have done this.
> 
> ...



Actually, no, at 0:24 that is by no means disconnected structure...sorry...if that is what you see...you don't understand what is going on...again...sorry...we are not going to agree. You wish to share your point of view and your training that is fine....since I see nothing but disagreement with you... I do not wish to argue and I will keep my thoughts on this to myself from this point on....I do however regret posting the video of Tung Hu ling and CZL here since the point seems to have been entirely missed...... I shall bow out and leave you to your thread


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## Zeny (Jan 4, 2016)

Xue, i don't wish to antagonise or argue with anyone by sharing my ideas. I have already said those ideas are mine and mine only and do not represent the ideas of all huang stylists. Some huang stylists in my area do my exact opposite even.

If you disagree with me, please share your views and i would love to hear and learn from them. I have extended an invitation to readers of this thread to share their personal experiences with 'peng jin' but none did so. Linking articles and videos is not the same as sharing personal experiences.

I am spending time and effort to share my ideas and experience with no expectation of any benefit or payment. Please don't repay me by showing negativity. I shall stop then since my posts appear to be causing resentment.


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## Xue Sheng (Jan 4, 2016)

Don't let me stop you from posting, post what you like, as you like, I will just no longer participate from this point on


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## ChenAn (Jan 4, 2016)

here is Yang Chengfu






What is considered up right now is washed out traditional taiji. In fact traditional Yangshi and Chenshi share the same attributes because they work


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## Zeny (Jan 6, 2016)

Adam Mizner uses a lot of lianjin in his push hands. A good example is at 1:06. Another one at 4:31.

0:58 is a good example of the fajin exercise i described at post #29.


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## ChenAn (Jan 6, 2016)

Adam has a good sensitivity without doubt. And he does in very friendly way. However, this is demo format, put Adam under stress and thing may look little bit different


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Zeny (Jan 7, 2016)

Here's what it looks like in non-demo conditions. Less smooth and flashy. This video shows a lot of lianjin in action.


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## ChenAn (Jan 7, 2016)

Thanks Zeny for posting video. There is big level gap between you and Adam. Also it seems like you don't have much push hand experience in this video (at the time). So that  contrast really emphasizes Adam skillset. 

What I meant by "under stress" is presented in two video examples.
First example native Chen village master  Chen Ziqiang free pushing with compliant student:





The second example when Chen Ziqiang free pushing with non compliant taiji player






You can easily spot the difference in levels/compliance in the videos above


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## Zeny (Jan 7, 2016)

That's not me. I've never met Adam, just a random video I pulled from youtube.


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## Xue Sheng (Jan 7, 2016)

Video 2: not bad for a guy that is about 1/2 size of the other guy.

Also note with the video there is this



> Tuishou,/Push hands workout with Chen Ziqiang. This is a short piece of Day 2 training with Chen Ziqiang. He worked my cardio good and was quite a little beast to work with. Not sure how much he weighs, under 150 I believe, but of course some say as little as 125 pounds( just keeps getting smaller), which he certainly doesn't feel like. Some look at this as a type of wrestling and not "proper tuishou" all the Taiji critics of course are welcome to take a poke. Either way Taiji principles were in play, some can see what others can't. That being said their are also areas that were below standard needing improvement and that's the point of training this way. This isn't fighting , sparring or Taiji boxing but a way of testing certain skills. Please share what you see as good, bad or otherwise and feel free to critique both myself and Chen Ziqiang.


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## ChenAn (Jan 7, 2016)

Chen Ziqiang is eldest son of Chen Xiaoxing (Chen Xiaowang younger brother). Full time martial instructor who is doing it for a leaving all his life. William ( a guy clip #2) 44 years old part time practitioner (like most of us)

Now, given Chen Ziqiang credentials and "master" attribute wouldn't we expect that weight difference play any roll like in video #1 with Mike?   

Just to be fair and square - real life situation prepares for us none-compliant,   unrehearsed, hostile environment.  In addition, it could happens it worst possible time of our life's. So "stressed" environment is really what traditional sober approach originally designed to handle. Nobody is perfect, so some degree of failure is expected. Traditional training prepares for that . When it washed out by some delusional view  taiji only works in imaginary world or may look as bad as this in reality:





I haven't seen many contemporary taiji masters who realistically approach taiji fighting beyond limits of push hands demos. As we can see in older photos of Yang shi. There is a good reason why taiji fighters in the past hide their center behind. As I mentioned before I used to practice Chen village method, and so get to push and wrestle with Chen family members. One of them was Chen Bing. After one of wrestling session with Chen Bing I asked him how would approach attacker who is about to lunch real attack with kick and punches. Chen Bing very quickly assumed a common sense boxer like stance protecting his ribs and head. Even though I'm no longer do wrestling matches or practice the village method I do still like Chen Bing sober mind. Oh yes his 2016 promo looks neat


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## Xue Sheng (Jan 7, 2016)

DELETED


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## ChenAn (Jan 7, 2016)

Well I'm not looking down on Wu or taiji, but IMHO still this is good example comparing with this


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## Zeny (Jan 7, 2016)

ChenAn, any reason why you stopped training the village method?


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## Zeny (Jan 7, 2016)

ChenAn, you mentioned a few times that traditional taichi is washed out in modern times. I would, respectfully, disagree with you. If you look hard enough you will find proper martial taichi, or is lucky enough to be living near a teacher who practises proper martial taichi.

Let me tell you a story. My teacher is currently 70 years old, and is a true chinese martial artist in all sense of the word. In his teens he practised baihequan (white crane boxing), and competed in chinese sparring (lei tai) matches. He described to me his training regime. To improve his fajin he trained palm strikes on sandbags. I asked him how many strikes per day. He said it is not difficult to train 1,000 strikes per day (300+ in the morning, 300+ after lunch, and 300+ after dinner). The palms and wrists were then immersed in traditional chinese medicine for healing. In his lei tai matches if his single palm strike did not KO an opponent he treated that as a personal loss. Zhan zhuang was trained one hour a day. Subsequently to improve his grappling skills he also trained judo from a japanese master.

In his 40s he heard that huang taichi is a great martial art, so he sought out a senior student of huang sheng shyan and challenged him. The senior student accepted the challenge and asked what would be regarded as a loss. My teacher replied that if he was successfully thrown until his butt hits the floor he would regard that as a loss. The senior student agreed. At this point my teacher had practised martial arts actively for over 20 years.

The challenge then began. Upon first contact my teacher was immediately thrown until his butt hit the floor. He said it was very difficult to believe. He stood up and tried another round. Again he was thrown until his butt hit the floor without difficulty. He then accepted defeat and started practising taichi under this student. This event happened around 1990 so until today my teacher has been practising taichi for over 25 years.

I have had the benefit of pushing hands with this senior student (technically my sigung). The effect is not like any you can see on youtube (unfortunately he forbids taking videos so you cannot find any on youtube). Imagine you are pushing hands with a great oak tree that moves with great fluidity, accuracy and sensitivity. That's how it felt. I actively resisted but stood no chance at all. This sigung is the one who told the rock story during one of his seminars which i attended. I have seen and felt how high level one can reach in taichi and this is what kept me going all these years.


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## ChenAn (Jan 8, 2016)

Zeny said:


> ChenAn, any reason why you stopped training the village method?



Many reasons...The most important one I'm no longer willing to pay for something that doesn't have value anymore


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## ChenAn (Jan 8, 2016)

Zeny your teacher is very impressive. Good for him! I can't say the same about mainstream Chen style


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