# Conditioning for when you are in your 30s and 40s



## thanson02 (Jun 15, 2017)

So my wife and I moved to a new town about a year ago and with a new baby, it has been difficult getting our groove in and get our training time strait.

Recently, we decided to make the commitment to set a good example for the kid and get our conditioning back where it needs to be, but I want to make sure we are focusing on the right stuff.  I am just turning 39 (I cannot believe I just said that) and my wife is in her early 30s.  Weight loss and cardio are definitely part of the picture.  Our system had both ground fighting and stand up kickboxing and we want to make sure we can handle 5, 2-4 minute rounds back-to-back in each.  In the past, there has been cretin things I have done for my cardio runs that did help in this, but I noticed that as I got older, my recovery from those practices took longer and I guess given that we are not a young as we used to be, I want to get the best bang for my buck.

For the 30 and older crowd, Is there anything you found to work really well to make sure you kept your competitive edge up?  And when did you decide that it was time to hang the gloves if you did?


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## jobo (Jun 15, 2017)

thanson02 said:


> So my wife and I moved to a new town about a year ago and with a new baby, it has been difficult getting our groove in and get our training time strait.
> 
> Recently, we decided to make the commitment to set a good example for the kid and get our conditioning back where it needs to be, but I want to make sure we are focusing on the right stuff.  I am just turning 39 (I cannot believe I just said that) and my wife is in her early 30s.  Weight loss and cardio are definitely part of the picture.  Our system had both ground fighting and stand up kickboxing and we want to make sure we can handle 5, 2-4 minute rounds back-to-back in each.  In the past, there has been cretin things I have done for my cardio runs that did help in this, but I noticed that as I got older, my recovery from those practices took longer and I guess given that we are not a young as we used to be, I want to get the best bang for my buck.
> 
> For the 30 and older crowd, Is there anything you found to work really well to make sure you kept your competitive edge up?  And when did you decide that it was time to hang the gloves if you did?



yes well I have done such at bit older than you, and your age is a factor but not perhaps as much as you think it maybe.

the key is little and often, not throwing yourself in and then being out of action for a week or three.

you heal/ recover more slowly as your blood chemistry won't support fast healing,. However by gently hurting yourself repeatedly you will change its make up and the recovery process will improve dramaticaly and then you can build up the amount of effort in the knowledge that you can do it again the next day or at least the one after that.
do not repeat not get carried away and injure yourself .it only slows the whole process down.
exercises is not a good way of losing weight or rather it is when you have a really good level of fitness ,if you want to lose weight in the short term diet

if you look at human activities, then they require in different amounts, strengh,endurance, aerobic, balance, co ordination reactions and flexability. So any fitness program need to have a way of improving them all .

throwing a heavy dog ball against a wall and catching it repeatedly, can do quite a few of those. Standing on one leg can be done in the super market queue if you don't mind looking odd. Go play football with you kids, get a dog that wants five mile walks or bike to work. Press ups pull ups, sit up and squats are always  good. So you can work them into your daily life with out going near a gym.
by Slowly building up your fitness base, then in say 6months you will be in a very different state than you are now


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## JowGaWolf (Jun 15, 2017)

thanson02 said:


> So my wife and I moved to a new town about a year ago and with a new baby, it has been difficult getting our groove in and get our training time strait.
> 
> Recently, we decided to make the commitment to set a good example for the kid and get our conditioning back where it needs to be, but I want to make sure we are focusing on the right stuff.  I am just turning 39 (I cannot believe I just said that) and my wife is in her early 30s.  Weight loss and cardio are definitely part of the picture.  Our system had both ground fighting and stand up kickboxing and we want to make sure we can handle 5, 2-4 minute rounds back-to-back in each.  In the past, there has been cretin things I have done for my cardio runs that did help in this, but I noticed that as I got older, my recovery from those practices took longer and I guess given that we are not a young as we used to be, I want to get the best bang for my buck.
> 
> For the 30 and older crowd, Is there anything you found to work really well to make sure you kept your competitive edge up?  And when did you decide that it was time to hang the gloves if you did?


I just do the same things that I did when I was younger.  The only difference is that I have to be mindful that it takes a little longer for me to recover.  I try to remember this so I don't over do the exercises.  I also try to aid my recovery by eating stuff that helps my recover.  This will probably vary from person to person.  When I have a hard week of working out, I will either eat a banana once a day for 3 days or drink orange juice twice a day for 3 days.   This will usually help my body to recover from the worn out muscle feel as if my body is "running on  empty."   I also will lower the intensity of my workout on the following days or I will skip a day of working out.   This usually helps me to bounce back without having to take some special nutrition mixture.  In general I try to eat healthy; some days are better than others.


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## Bill Mattocks (Jun 15, 2017)

Jump rope.


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## JR 137 (Jun 15, 2017)

As we age, the recovery takes longer.  Being 41, I'm still capable of doing most things I did in my 20s.  The difference now is I can't do them continually.

A big part of recovery is sleep.  The more active we are, the more we need.  Put a new baby into the mix, and it's a recipe for disaster.  You're probably most tired and worn down from the lack of sleep.

Train smarter.  Technology and our understanding of exercise physiology has come a long way in the last several years.  The best and most efficient way to see exercise gains is interval training IMO.  Alternating short bursts of near maximal heart rate with longer durations of lower heart rate.  For example, getting your heart rate up to near maximum for 20 seconds, then doing low intensity stuff for 90 seconds, then repeating for 20 minutes or so.  Use a heart rate monitor such as a Polar chest strap or a Fitbit.

The times are argued by exercise physiologists, but the principle isn't.  You can mix up different types of exercise, such as alternating sprinting and jogging, hitting a heavy bag hard and fast then doing slower and lighter punches/kicks, etc.

The times you do and how much you rest between workouts will vary according to your fitness level. You may be able to go to harder for longer, need two days in between sessions, etc.  It'll be trial and error until you get it right.  The single most important thing is paying attention to your heart rate and times, and not if you think you're going hard or easy enough.

Just something to consider.


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## hoshin1600 (Jun 15, 2017)

jobo said:


> ,if you want to lose weight in the short term diet


i think diet is important but not in the old way of "going on a diet" but rather the type and quantities of the food you eat.  nothing new in this ....eat more veggies and less sugar.   your ability to sustain a work out regimen will increase with good foods.


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## jobo (Jun 15, 2017)

hoshin1600 said:


> i think diet is important but not in the old way of "going on a diet" but rather the type and quantities of the food you eat.  nothing new in this ....eat more veggies and less sugar.   your ability to sustain a work out regimen will increase with good foods.


it depend what you are calling good and bad food, a good diet providers you with the over all calories need, a bad diet gives to many or not enough. Those calories need to consist of protein, fat and carbs and sugars. In addition you need vitamins and minerals that come from fruit and veg. Though apparently if you eat sufficient organ meat, you can get by with out so many vegs.

eating more veg isn't good, if its at the expense of other dietry requirements, and once you have met your vitamin requirements, there are no additional benefits from eating more of them


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## jobo (Jun 15, 2017)

JR 137 said:


> As we age, the recovery takes longer.  Being 41, I'm still capable of doing most things I did in my 20s.  The difference now is I can't do them continually.
> 
> A big part of recovery is sleep.  The more active we are, the more we need.  Put a new baby into the mix, and it's a recipe for disaster.  You're probably most tired and worn down from the lack of sleep.
> 
> ...


I'm not aware of any reports that say hiit is the bests' way of gaining fitness, I've,seen a few that says it has equal health benefits as longer Casio. But if what you need is longer,duration cardio, then doing twenty seconds burst is next to useless.
that said it seems to be constantly misapplied, the idea is to o a short burst for say one minute of near max heart rate, then rest for half that time say 30secs then repeat. If yo do as you suggested, it takes near 20secs to get your heart rate up and then you stop and rest for a minute and a half. That's going to have practically no,effect on ether heart health or oxygen tranfere. Though it will make you quite good at sprinting for 20secs, which may come in useful if you have to run for a bus


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## Danny T (Jun 15, 2017)

Am 62, still train 5 days a week.
Don't do much running due to having had 2 total knee replacements.
I do 10 3 minute training rounds with 30 second active breaks between rounds after my warmup and strength rounds. 3 minutes skipping for warm up, 2 kettlebell or barbell strength rounds, 5 heavy bag striking rounds, 4 ground dummy striking rounds, 1 round of core exercises.

4 hour break then on Mon & Wed 1 hr Wing Chun & 1 hr Kali. On Tue & Thur 1 hr Muay Thai & 1 hr BJJ or Submission Wrestling. Sat.  10 Rds, Muay Thai, Wing Chun, & finally Kali.


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## jobo (Jun 15, 2017)

Danny T said:


> Am 62, still train 5 days a week.
> Don't do much running due to having had 2 total knee replacements.
> I do 10 3 minute training rounds with 30 second active breaks between rounds after my warmup and strength rounds. 3 minutes skipping for warm up, 2 kettlebell or barbell strength rounds, 5 heavy bag striking rounds, 4 ground dummy striking rounds, 1 round of core exercises.
> 
> 4 hour break then on Mon & Wed 1 hr Wing Chun & 1 hr Kali. On Tue & Thur 1 hr Muay Thai & 1 hr BJJ or Submission Wrestling. Sat.  10 Rds, Muay Thai, Wing Chun, & finally Kali.


not bad at all, I'm 58 I do five days of training, five mile walk , usually an hour of stretching and static holds, then a hundred or so press ups, 30 pulls ups  a load of box jumps, some dips 100 body weight squats . Then some weighted squats, knee raises hanging off the bar, then some front lever then a mile run, then five miles walk home. On my rest days I do karate and play five aside soccer. I'm trying to ramp it up a bit by doing burpees and running up flights of steps


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## Xue Sheng (Jun 15, 2017)

Martial Arts After 40


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## jobo (Jun 15, 2017)

Xue Sheng said:


> Martial Arts After 40


I've forgot who has me on ignore now, but why should doing ma after 40 be different enough to warrant a book. Learning new motor patterns and gaining fitness can take longer, but other than that there is no difference


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## JR 137 (Jun 15, 2017)

jobo said:


> I'm not aware of any reports that say hiit is the bests' way of gaining fitness, I've,seen a few that says it has equal health benefits as longer Casio. But if what you need is longer,duration cardio, then doing twenty seconds burst is next to useless.
> that said it seems to be constantly misapplied, the idea is to o a short burst for say one minute of near max heart rate, then rest for half that time say 30secs then repeat. If yo do as you suggested, it takes near 20secs to get your heart rate up and then you stop and rest for a minute and a half. That's going to have practically no,effect on ether heart health or oxygen tranfere. Though it will make you quite good at sprinting for 20secs, which may come in useful if you have to run for a bus



Have you read any exercise physiology professional journals?

As for the long sustained cardio, it's one of the most misinterpreted studies in exercise physiology history.  That "fat burning zone" training is highly flawed.

And the 20 sec high intensity/90 sec low intensity is a starting point.  And you don't start timing the 20 sec UNTIL you hit that max heart rate; get there, stay there for 20 sec, then during the 90 sec try to get back to the "fat burning zone," lather, rinse, repeat.  If someone has never done interval training before, and all they've done is long and sustained cardio, and they're approaching 40, the numbers I said are a good starting point.  I also said the times and recovery period will be a trial and error thing.  Once it's easy, adjust the times and/or recovery period. 

Interval training has been scientifically shown to burn more fat and increase VO2 max better than any other method by virtually every current scientific study.

Exercise physiologists will argue times ad neauseum.  What they won't argue is interval training's effectiveness pretty much across the board.  Why do you think HIIT is so popular nowadays?

As counterintuitive as it seems, it even benefited marathon runners in a study or two.  I wouldn't have believed that if I didn't read it in a peer reviewed scientific journal.


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## jobo (Jun 15, 2017)

JR 137 said:


> Have you read any exercise physiology professional journals?
> 
> As for the long sustained cardio, it's one of the most misinterpreted studies in exercise physiology history.  That "fat burning zone" training is highly flawed.
> 
> ...


well it's just this weeks craze, and it suits lazy people so bound to be popular, so which of these journals support your claim that its better than fast running for improving vo2 max. It's better than jogging, but then washing up so better than a slow jog.
I'm sceptical that a high heart rate for twenty seconds is  better for you than a high heart rate for 10 mins, perhaps you can post some evidence?

I can run a mile and a half in ten mins, so really what we need  you to show is that someone can go from 20sec burst and then have the aerobic capacity to jump straight to that sort of feat then I can admit those all those mile and a half o did to build up that aerobic capacity were waste of time


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## drop bear (Jun 15, 2017)

Swim sprints.


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## JR 137 (Jun 15, 2017)

jobo said:


> well it's just this weeks craze, and it suits lazy people so bound to be popular, so which of these journals support your claim that its better than fast running for improving vo2 max. It's better than jogging, but then washing up so better than a slow jog.
> I'm sceptical that a high heart rate for twenty seconds is  better for you than a high heart rate for 10 mins, perhaps you can post some evidence?
> 
> I can run a mile and a half in ten mins, so really what we need  you to show is that someone can go from 20sec burst and then have the aerobic capacity to jump straight to that sort of feat then I can admit those all those mile and a half o did to build up that aerobic capacity were waste of time



If you can run at max heart rate for 30 minutes straight, then interval training is not going to help you.  Show me someone who can run at max heart rate for that long, and I'll say he/she is the best runner of all time.

You're getting hung up on the 20 seconds thing.  It was a STARTING POINT, as I clearly said.  How about running at max heart rate for 60 sec, and at fat burn rate for 2 minutes, alternating for 30 minutes?  Would that make you reconsider?  Will that get the 20 sec hang up you have out of your head?  Where did I say running at a high rate for 20 sec is better than at a high rate for 10 minutes?  Interval training is better than running at a high rate for 10 minutes because you can go longer and spend more OVERALL time in a max heart rate zone if you're alternating high and low heart rates.  Again, exercise physiology expert, I said 20 sec was a STARTING POINT.  ADJUST THE TIME SO IT FITS YOU.  How else can I make that clear. 

There's so many studies done on interval training it's not even funny.

Here's a few professional journal links.  Search interval training all you want...

American Society of Exercise Physiologists :: Journal of Professional Exercise Physiology

Exercise Physiology

ACSM | ACSM Journals

Here's a general information article written by the American College of Sports Medicine.  They're a quite credible source...

The Basics of High-Intensity Interval Training

And I'm done.  I almost forgot that you know everything and no one can tell you otherwise.  Reading something and memorizing it isn't true intelligence.  Actually understanding it and being able to apply it is.


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## thanson02 (Jun 16, 2017)

JR 137 said:


> A big part of recovery is sleep.  The more active we are, the more we need.  Put a new baby into the mix, and it's a recipe for disaster.  You're probably most tired and worn down from the lack of sleep.



Yes, sleep deprivation has not helped.  I also work 3rd shift, so there are days when I only get 4-6 hours of sleep, if I am lucky.


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## thanson02 (Jun 16, 2017)

drop bear said:


> Swim sprints.



Not a bad idea, we would just need ongoing access to a swimming area.  I know my wife loves to get in the water when she can.  Is there any direct information on how swim sprints correlate with tournament endurance?


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## drop bear (Jun 16, 2017)

thanson02 said:


> Not a bad idea, we would just need ongoing access to a swimming area.  I know my wife loves to get in the water when she can.  Is there any direct information on how swim sprints correlate with tournament endurance?



Nope. 
Its hard. You get out of breath. Fighting is hard and you get out of breath

So swim sprints should make you better without blowing your knees


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## Buka (Jun 16, 2017)

thanson02 said:


> So my wife and I moved to a new town about a year ago and with a new baby, it has been difficult getting our groove in and get our training time strait.
> 
> Recently, we decided to make the commitment to set a good example for the kid and get our conditioning back where it needs to be, but I want to make sure we are focusing on the right stuff.  I am just turning 39 (I cannot believe I just said that) and my wife is in her early 30s.  Weight loss and cardio are definitely part of the picture.  Our system had both ground fighting and stand up kickboxing and we want to make sure we can handle 5, 2-4 minute rounds back-to-back in each.  In the past, there has been cretin things I have done for my cardio runs that did help in this, but I noticed that as I got older, my recovery from those practices took longer and I guess given that we are not a young as we used to be, I want to get the best bang for my buck.
> 
> For the 30 and older crowd, Is there anything you found to work really well to make sure you kept your competitive edge up?  And when did you decide that it was time to hang the gloves if you did?



There are those that can, and there are those that can't.
Can't.......never could and never will. So what's it going to be for you, kid? (Yeah, _KID_)

The competitive years for professional sports or professional fighting are probably past, but for fitness, conditioning, health, strength, heck, you haven't even reached your peak years yet. (You should think on that for a bit)

As for setting a good example for your child, the old "kid factor" - don't make it like a sport, or even like an exercise thing, make it like a brushing your teeth thing, or saying your prayers before bed thing, or cutting the lawn and taking out the trash thing. Make it as something "you just do". And if _you_ ain't doing it, they won't either.

As for swimming, great exercise, but for losing weight - not unless you swim like a competitive swimmer. And that ain't happening.

What are you doing now for conditioning? Fess up, what did you do today? What did you do yesterday? What are you going to do tomorrow?


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## jobo (Jun 16, 2017)

JR 137 said:


> If you can run at max heart rate for 30 minutes straight, then interval training is not going to help you.  Show me someone who can run at max heart rate for that long, and I'll say he/she is the best runner of all time.
> 
> You're getting hung up on the 20 seconds thing.  It was a STARTING POINT, as I clearly said.  How about running at max heart rate for 60 sec, and at fat burn rate for 2 minutes, alternating for 30 minutes?  Would that make you reconsider?  Will that get the 20 sec hang up you have out of your head?  Where did I say running at a high rate for 20 sec is better than at a high rate for 10 minutes?  Interval training is better than running at a high rate for 10 minutes because you can go longer and spend more OVERALL time in a max heart rate zone if you're alternating high and low heart rates.  Again, exercise physiology expert, I said 20 sec was a STARTING POINT.  ADJUST THE TIME SO IT FITS YOU.  How else can I make that clear.
> 
> ...


no hang on there, you said any hiit was better at vo2max improvement than any longer steady cardio / running.

that was an absolute statement on your part. Now it seem you are not at all sure if that's true and are rattling on about heart rate.
was your statement true ,or not


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## drop bear (Jun 16, 2017)

jobo said:


> no hang on there, you said any hiit was better at vo2max improvement than any longer steady cardio / running.
> 
> that was an absolute statement on your part. Now it seem you are not at all sure if that's true and are rattling on about heart rate.
> was your statement true ,or not



Sorta leans towards Hiit being slightly better than cardio at fat burning because of a whole bunch of science that I couldn't really care less about. 

wade through that if you want.
Cardio vs HIIT vs Weights: Rebooting Our Research

Because if you exercise more than you did. And eat better than you did you will loose weight and gain fitness.

So hiit or cardio at 40 depends on what you can do more of pretty much.

Weight loss is not eating crap.

And surviving rounds is part fitness and part sensible fighting.


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## jobo (Jun 16, 2017)

drop bear said:


> Sorta leans towards Hiit being slightly better than cardio at fat burning because of a whole bunch of science that I couldn't really care less about.
> 
> wade through that if you want.
> Cardio vs HIIT vs Weights: Rebooting Our Research
> ...


people make generalised sweeping statments, it better than slow jogging at many things, but that's not the point at issue we were not discussing vo2max not fat loss
if you want good cardio to say get you through a 4min round then nether jogging or hiit will give you that. Only doing 4 or more mins of intense cardio will prepare your body for that.

if you want to run a mile in 7mins, the only way to do that is to run a mile or more to build you your aerobic base.

you could make a case that supplimenting  that training with hiit gives benefit, but that wasn't what he was say either. He was stating that it is superior and can replace such training altogether. And that is clearly a false hood and not supported by any studies. If you want 20 sec of flat out effort and who doesn't, then hiit is king

the hiit myth is running through fitness, with people opting to do a min of cardio in twenty second bursts and then claiming that's all they need


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## JR 137 (Jun 16, 2017)

jobo said:


> no hang on there, you said any hiit was better at vo2max improvement than any longer steady cardio / running.
> 
> that was an absolute statement on your part. Now it seem you are not at all sure if that's true and are rattling on about heart rate.
> was your statement true ,or not



You're right, and I'm wrong.  It won't matter what I say, so leave it at that.  Feel free to quote the first sentence here freely.

Your knowledge of exercise physiology, sports medicine, and physics, amongst other things is basically on the same level as people who watch YouTube and "do karate" without any formal training nor a teacher.

How did I get roped into your absurdity yet again?  As entertaining as your "knowledge" and ability to read something and actually functionally understand it are, it's run its course for me.  All good things must come to an end.

You're right, and I'm wrong.


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## jobo (Jun 16, 2017)

JR 137 said:


> You're right, and I'm wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> You're right, and I'm wrong.


there no need to be bitter about it,


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Jun 16, 2017)

JR 137 said:


> You're right, and I'm wrong.  It won't matter what I say, so leave it at that.  Feel free to quote the first sentence here freely.
> 
> Your knowledge of exercise physiology, sports medicine, and physics, amongst other things is basically on the same level as people who watch YouTube and "do karate" without any formal training nor a teacher.
> 
> ...


My assumption is your responding to jobo? If so, that ignore feature is a very good way to avoid getting roped in to his absurdity.


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## JR 137 (Jun 16, 2017)

jobo said:


> there no need to be bitter about it,


No bitterness at all


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## JR 137 (Jun 16, 2017)

kempodisciple said:


> My assumption is your responding to jobo? If so, that ignore feature is a very good way to avoid getting roped in to his absurdity.



He's too amusing to ignore


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## thanson02 (Jun 18, 2017)

Buka said:


> There are those that can, and there are those that can't.
> Can't.......never could and never will. So what's it going to be for you, kid? (Yeah, _KID_)
> 
> The competitive years for professional sports or professional fighting are probably past, but for fitness, conditioning, health, strength, heck, you haven't even reached your peak years yet. (You should think on that for a bit)
> ...



These days?  I get an hour walk in every day with the kid and 3 times a week, I get a chance to review my forms after he has gone to sleep, but to be honest a lot of those days I am already worn out playing with him and chasing him around so it only ends up being around 30 minutes worth of light review.  I guess it doesn't feel like much because before I became a dad, I was putting in 1 1/2 hours of intense training 3 nights a week (if I wasn't soaked with sweat and if my legs didn't feel like jello, I didn't get a good night in) with 1-2 days of lighter/review training.  I was also getting a good night sleep every night.

I like the idea of the "it's like brushing your teeth" route.  I talked to my wife about that and she agreed.  Thanks for that. 

As for the competitive element, I always saw tournament as a training tool.  I have met a lot of folks who really get fired up when it comes to tournament fighting, they seem to live for it, but for me it was part of a larger package.  I do know is that where I am at right now, my main focus is to get a deeper understanding of what I do and how it works.  Maybe this whole thing is about me shifting gears anyways........


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## jobo (Jun 18, 2017)

thanson02 said:


> These days?  I get an hour walk in every day with the kid and 3 times a week, I get a chance to review my forms after he has gone to sleep, but to be honest a lot of those days I am already worn out playing with him and chasing him around so it only ends up being around 30 minutes worth of light review.  I guess it doesn't feel like much because before I became a dad, I was putting in 1 1/2 hours of intense training 3 nights a week (if I wasn't soaked with sweat and if my legs didn't feel like jello, I didn't get a good night in) with 1-2 days of lighter/review training.  I was also getting a good night sleep every night.
> 
> I like the idea of the "it's like brushing your teeth" route.  I talked to my wife about that and she agreed.  Thanks for that.
> 
> As for the competitive element, I always saw tournament as a training tool.  I have met a lot of folks who really get fired up when it comes to tournament fighting, they seem to live for it, but for me it was part of a larger package.  I do know is that where I am at right now, my main focus is to get a deeper understanding of what I do and how it works.  Maybe this whole thing is about me shifting gears anyways........


don't wish to stare the obvious, but if your child care is leaving you shattered, then it counts as exercise. The less obvious answer is that the low intensity child care exercise is using a different energy source than a more intense exercise session might. You have plenty of energy left, your body is lying to you


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## thanson02 (Jun 18, 2017)

jobo said:


> don't wish to stare the obvious, but if your child care is leaving you shattered, then it counts as exercise. The less obvious answer is that the low intensity child care exercise is using a different energy source than a more intense exercise session might. You have plenty of energy left, your body is lying to you



Didn't think about that...............


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## Gerry Seymour (Jun 18, 2017)

jobo said:


> don't wish to stare the obvious, but if your child care is leaving you shattered, then it counts as exercise. The less obvious answer is that the low intensity child care exercise is using a different energy source than a more intense exercise session might. You have plenty of energy left, your body is lying to you


There are different energy systems, but he's likely drawing on the same energy system for both playing with the kid and a hard 90-minute workout. The shorter/faster energy system is typically more activated by shorter intervals of very high intensity.


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## Buka (Jun 19, 2017)

thanson02 said:


> These days?  I get an hour walk in every day with the kid and 3 times a week, I get a chance to review my forms after he has gone to sleep, but to be honest a lot of those days I am already worn out playing with him and chasing him around so it only ends up being around 30 minutes worth of light review.  I guess it doesn't feel like much because before I became a dad, I was putting in 1 1/2 hours of intense training 3 nights a week (if I wasn't soaked with sweat and if my legs didn't feel like jello, I didn't get a good night in) with 1-2 days of lighter/review training.  I was also getting a good night sleep every night.
> 
> I like the idea of the "it's like brushing your teeth" route.  I talked to my wife about that and she agreed.  Thanks for that.
> 
> As for the competitive element, I always saw tournament as a training tool.  I have met a lot of folks who really get fired up when it comes to tournament fighting, they seem to live for it, but for me it was part of a larger package.  I do know is that where I am at right now, my main focus is to get a deeper understanding of what I do and how it works.  Maybe this whole thing is about me shifting gears anyways........



You have a good attitude, bro, and that's a wonderful thing. Caring for a child is a ton of work, but think of the "_I am already worn out playing with him and chasing him around_" as physical work, which it is. It's not like you're sitting around eating doughnuts. You'll adjust to it, too, just takes some time. Sleep will be a thing of the past for a while, but this too shall pass. Just make sure you eat right, or at least as well as you can.

I suggest you don't compare what work you were doing before, with what you're doing now. Adapt, find a new something to do at home, even little things, like hand grips, quick sets of ten push ups, curling a hand weight while you're preparing baby formula, suck in your gut - trying to touch your belly button to your spine, hold it there for one minute while you go about your activities - it works your transverse abdominus. It works well over time. And it's _hard_. The little things add up over time. Honest.

And you are spot on correct - it is about you shifting gears. Go gettum', bro.


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## thanson02 (Jun 19, 2017)

gpseymour said:


> There are different energy systems, but he's likely drawing on the same energy system for both playing with the kid and a hard 90-minute workout. The shorter/faster energy system is typically more activated by shorter intervals of very high intensity.



The one thing that you run into with the martial art community is when people talk about energy and energy systems, some people are very western and scientific in their approach and some very eastern and use Asian medicine terminology, or they use some blend of the two.  Just curious which energy system approach your going with and what systems you are talking about for clarification purposes.


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## jobo (Jun 19, 2017)

gpseymour said:


> There are different energy systems, but he's likely drawing on the same energy system for both playing with the kid and a hard 90-minute workout. The shorter/faster energy system is typically more activated by shorter intervals of very high intensity.


the human body is capable of incredible feats of endurance, what most of us experience as tiredness, is just lethargy. The nervous system isn't co operating and giving false feed back to the brain
. There is a condition common in long distance running/ cycling etc called" hitting the wall" were your body no longer has enough glycogen left to run your brain and you fall over. Any thing much less than that and you have enough energy to do what you want, if you can master your nervous system.

the best way to over come lethargy, is to do something short duration,but extremely taxing, to get the blood flowing, wake your nervous system up and release some endorphins'
then you are good to go, even if he only does the short intense exercises he is gaining fitness, you can wreck yourself in 10 minutes if you try hard enough

I cant tell you the number of times I have gone to my work out felling like I dont have enough energy to even walk.

30 pull ups later I'm skipping about like a 20 year old


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## Gerry Seymour (Jun 19, 2017)

thanson02 said:


> The one thing that you run into with the martial art community is when people talk about energy and energy systems, some people are very western and scientific in their approach and some very eastern and use Asian medicine terminology, or they use some blend of the two.  Just curious which energy system approach your going with and what systems you are talking about for clarification purposes.


Based on previous discussions with Jobo, I think he's referring to the physical (chemical) energy systems - how the body creates the energy needed from food. Short, intense activity uses one system (phosphagen system), while longer activity uses another (glycolytic system - either aerobic or anaerobic). There appears to be more crossover than that statement's simplicity suggests, but that's a good way to understand it.


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## Gerry Seymour (Jun 19, 2017)

jobo said:


> the human body is capable of incredible feats of endurance, what most of us experience as tiredness, is just lethargy. The nervous system isn't co operating and giving false feed back to the brain
> . There is a condition common in long distance running/ cycling etc called" hitting the wall" were your body no longer has enough glycogen left to run your brain and you fall over. Any thing much less than that and you have enough energy to do what you want, if you can master your nervous system.
> 
> the best way to over come lethargy, is to do something short duration,but extremely taxing, to get the blood flowing, wake your nervous system up and release some endorphins'
> ...


Definitely agreed on those points, Jobo. I was just clarifying for the OP about the differing energy systems. Like you, I've often gone into workouts (both intense ones and soft ones) with low energy, and come out more awake and alert on the other side.

That 10-minute workout idea appears to work really well (for some people - I'll touch on that in a moment), especially if it involves interval training. There's some recent evidence that different people's bodies respond to different types of exercise - much more individually than was once thought. So, I might respond best to HIIT, and you might respond best to reasonably intense cardio. This frustrating lack of consistency between people probably explains why so many people who try to get more fit have trouble with it - dietary and exercise needs appear to be highly individual.


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## thanson02 (Jun 19, 2017)

gpseymour said:


> Based on previous discussions with Jobo, I think he's referring to the physical (chemical) energy systems - how the body creates the energy needed from food. Short, intense activity uses one system (phosphagen system), while longer activity uses another (glycolytic system - either aerobic or anaerobic). There appears to be more crossover than that statement's simplicity suggests, but that's a good way to understand it.



I just wanted to make sure I was on the same page.  Thanks for the clarification guys.


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## jobo (Jun 19, 2017)

gpseymour said:


> Based on previous discussions with Jobo, I think he's referring to the physical (chemical) energy systems - how the body creates the energy needed from food. Short, intense activity uses one system (phosphagen system), while longer activity uses another (glycolytic system - either aerobic or anaerobic). There appears to be more crossover than that statement's simplicity suggests, but that's a good way to understand it.


well yes and no, with only a vague understanding of chi , id make the simplistic comparison that Chinese culture has invisible  energy lines running through the body that control strengh power pain thresh holds etc called chi and Western culture has invisible energy lines running through the body that control strengh power pain thresh holds etc called the nervous system. I view building my chi in the western view as building control of my nervous system to optimal performance


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## Gerry Seymour (Jun 19, 2017)

jobo said:


> well yes and no, with only a vague understanding of chi , id make the simplistic comparison that Chinese culture has invisible  energy lines running through the body that control strengh power pain thresh holds etc called chi and Western culture has invisible energy lines running through the body that control strengh power pain thresh holds etc called the nervous system. I view building my chi in the western view as building control of my nervous system to optimal performance


That's an interesting view. I kind of like that concept. I've always viewed chi/ki from a physics/kinesiology perspective. All the "ki" work I've done seemed to work best when understood as a method of developing proper mechanics and eliminated what can interfere with those (so coordinating the breath is part of the latter).


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## JR 137 (Jun 19, 2017)

gpseymour said:


> That's an interesting view. I kind of like that concept. I've always viewed chi/ki from a physics/kinesiology perspective. All the "ki" work I've done seemed to work best when understood as a method of developing proper mechanics and eliminated what can interfere with those (so coordinating the breath is part of the latter).


Add the nervous system controlling the energy, as in strike a nerve and get temporary paralysis along the nerve (such as the "funny bone"), and recruiting more/the right muscle fibers through nerve transmission, and you've got my definition of chi/ki.


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## PhotonGuy (Jun 22, 2017)

thanson02 said:


> So my wife and I moved to a new town about a year ago and with a new baby, it has been difficult getting our groove in and get our training time strait.
> 
> Recently, we decided to make the commitment to set a good example for the kid and get our conditioning back where it needs to be, but I want to make sure we are focusing on the right stuff.  I am just turning 39 (I cannot believe I just said that) and my wife is in her early 30s.  Weight loss and cardio are definitely part of the picture.  Our system had both ground fighting and stand up kickboxing and we want to make sure we can handle 5, 2-4 minute rounds back-to-back in each.  In the past, there has been cretin things I have done for my cardio runs that did help in this, but I noticed that as I got older, my recovery from those practices took longer and I guess given that we are not a young as we used to be, I want to get the best bang for my buck.
> 
> For the 30 and older crowd, Is there anything you found to work really well to make sure you kept your competitive edge up?  And when did you decide that it was time to hang the gloves if you did?



Im 41. I more or less do the same stuff that I did in my twenties.


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## JR 137 (Jun 22, 2017)

PhotonGuy said:


> Im 41. I more or less do the same stuff that I did in my twenties.



It's not that hard to do if you didn't do much in your 20s.  

In all seriousness, do you recover like you did in your 20s?


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## thanson02 (Jun 22, 2017)

JR 137 said:


> It's not that hard to do if you didn't do much in your 20s.
> 
> In all seriousness, do you recover like you did in your 20s?



It takes longer to bounce back then it used to.  I started noticing the difference when I was 31-32.  Slight injuries and sourness that I would be fine with after a day or two suddenly took almost a week to get over.  I watched my diet and did what I could so it wasn't that bad, but I was certainly there.


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## Psilent Knight (Jul 23, 2017)

JR 137 said:


> If you can run at max heart rate for 30 minutes straight,



Not humanly possible.



JR 137 said:


> then interval training is not going to help you.  Show me someone who can run at max heart rate for that long, and I'll say he/she is the best runner of all time.



Better yet, show me someone who can run at max heart rate for that long, and I'll say he/she IS NOT HUMAN!


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## Psilent Knight (Jul 23, 2017)

Okay guys, it appears that the main theme of this thread is recovery for the 40 and over crowd. Something I have read in a fitness journal about a year ago said something that caught my attention. It was mainly concerning physical fitness and recovery for the 60 and over crowd but I thought I'd share it here as I think most of you would find this info beneficial in general. I don't remember it verbatim but here's the gist of it:

The  recommended daily allowance of protein for the average male is 56 grams. Shoot for at least double that. In a USDA study, men who consumed twice the recommended amount of protein lost more fat and maintained more muscle than those who consumed less. They also recommended limiting carbohydrate intake to around 100 grams.

The reason this kind of information is important is because sufficient protein intake, along with proper rest and sleep, is KEY to successful recovery.

I am also in full agreement with JR 137 about the H.I.I.T. protocol as I have read the same type of research over the last couple of years. I've read that after much research, even U.S. Air Force Cardiologist Dr. Kenneth Cooper—the very man who coined the term "aerobics”—now believes there is no correlation between aerobic performance and health.

There are two HIIT protocols that I have learned about during my research. JR 137 already described one of them; it is commonly referred to as Tabatas. But there's another one that I am interested in which I haven't done yet known as the sprint 8 workout.

With the sprint 8 workout you do 30 seconds of all out sprinting followed by 1.5 minutes - 2 minutes of active rest (just like the 20 second/10 second tabata workout). But you do this 8 times for a total of about 20 minutes.

Like I said I have yet to do this but have done Tabata sprints. The reason I prefer sprints over other exercises that can be used in this exercise format is because there are studies that I've read linking sprints with HGH release which is ALSO important for recovery.


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