# Is there such a thing as dirty fighting?



## Invisibleflash (Aug 25, 2019)

Or in 2019 does anything go?

Someone mentioned they added a new twist to the knockout game. After the random knockout on a stranger they pee on the unconscious person.


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## Gerry Seymour (Aug 25, 2019)

"Dirty fighting" will always be in the eye of the beholder. If I'm attacked, I consider all options on the table - nothing is dirty. And I consider pretty much everything the attacker does to be "dirty fighting".


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## Headhunter (Aug 25, 2019)

In the ring yes in the real world no


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## Deleted member 39746 (Aug 25, 2019)

Depends where you live and the culture of the place if something is considered dirty and of your sex as well. 

I recall kicking being looked on as a kind of unsporting thing in England for a period of time, at least by respectable people.  


I think general gentleman's rules is for a street fight don't go below the belt.   i think thats pretty universal across most cultures.  

Its quite a deep subject which really depends on your social class, what country you live in and where and which culture you hold onto and the one of the ones around you.  

and then if you grow up with a kill or be killed mentality nothing will be dirty to you so you wont have said concept to view your fighting as dirty.

Addendum: and yes crowds do intervene when a unspoken rule of fighting is broken semi often.  especially if they know the persons fighting.


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## Headhunter (Aug 25, 2019)

Rat said:


> Depends where you live and the culture of the place if something is considered dirty and of your sex as well.
> 
> I recall kicking being looked on as a kind of unsporting thing in England for a period of time, at least by respectable people.
> 
> ...


Lol I worked security and doors in nightclubs in the uk for a very long time and worked in different areas of uk and trust me there is no such as gentleman Rules and kicking has certainly always happened in fights.

There are no rules in street fights plain and simple

As for sex...well just take a look at YouTube women fights they certain ain't playing by any rules or code of honour


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## Gweilo (Aug 25, 2019)

As door security or bouncers as we used to call them, blab on about how many fights or incidents they had in the 80's and 90's, as I recall it was sober late 20's early 30's gym goers, bouncing drunk 18 -25 year old out of a club, and usually team handed, so I would disagree you counting this as legit fight experience.


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## Headhunter (Aug 25, 2019)

Gweilo said:


> As door security or bouncers as we used to call them, blab on about how many fights or incidents they had in the 80's and 90's, as I recall it was sober late 20's early 30's gym goers, bouncing drunk 18 -25 year old out of a club, and usually team handed, so I would disagree you counting this as legit fight experience.


I don't need to "blab" on about anything I know what I saw and did and if you don't believe me I really don't care


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## Gweilo (Aug 25, 2019)

I am not belittling all doorman, just most, I knew a couple who were good people, but for the most part not, we had 1 bouncer used to carry a snooker ball in a sock, yes I am sure you met some idiots, but in my day, the crap bouncers pulled, made their counterparts targets.


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## Headhunter (Aug 25, 2019)

Gweilo said:


> I am not belittling all doorman, just most, I knew a couple who were good people, but for the most part not, we had 1 bouncer used to carry a snooker ball in a sock, yes I am sure you met some idiots, but in my day, the crap bouncers pulled, made their counterparts targets.


In my experience The only people who have any issues with doormen are the idiots who cause trouble sooo


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## Gweilo (Aug 25, 2019)

Headhunter said:


> In my experience The only people who have any issues with doormen are the idiots who cause trouble sooo



Pmsl, I only ever had a couple of run ins with doorman, I learnt the effects of alcohol on performance very early in life, I knew the MO, of doorman, so avoided the  hyper inflated ego's


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## Headhunter (Aug 25, 2019)

Gweilo said:


> Pmsl, I only ever had a couple of run ins with doorman, I learnt the effects of alcohol on performance very early in life, I knew the MO, of doorman, so avoided the  hyper inflated ego's


Uh huh


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## Gweilo (Aug 25, 2019)

Headhunter said:


> Uh huh


That's what I expected


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## Buka (Aug 25, 2019)

I worked a lot of doors in my day. Interesting job. I watched a lot of doormen, too, several of my best friends own successful nightclubs and sports bars. This span is from the seventies to the present.

Never saw a doorman cause a problem. Saw a few folks trying to come in cause a lot of problems.

It's not exactly rocket science trying to enter any business with a doorman. Just wear the appropriate attire, pay the cover if there is one, and behave.

No owner of an establishment will allow doormen to turn away people for no reason, or to get into problems with them. That costs owners money. Owners do not like things that cost them money.

If you're going to a place with bad doormen, you should be going some place else.


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## Headhunter (Aug 25, 2019)

Buka said:


> I worked a lot of doors in my day. Interesting job. I watched a lot of doormen, too, several of my best friends own successful nightclubs and sports bars. This span is from the seventies to the present.
> 
> Never saw a doorman cause a problem. Saw a few folks trying to come in cause a lot of problems.
> 
> ...


Agreed. I'm not saying there weren't a holes who enjoyed fighting but they were very few and far between. I mean yeah sometimes you had to be a bit rough when you're dealing with 5 or 6 drunk or drugged up guys with glass bottles in their hands and pool cues and bar stools and potentially knives but I never saw anyone go to the extremes with it. I mean okay I didn't work in the worst of the worst clubs but I've had people threaten me with bottles and pool cues and one say he was gonna cut my throat later so yeah


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## Headhunter (Aug 25, 2019)

Buka said:


> I worked a lot of doors in my day. Interesting job. I watched a lot of doormen, too, several of my best friends own successful nightclubs and sports bars. This span is from the seventies to the present.
> 
> Never saw a doorman cause a problem. Saw a few folks trying to come in cause a lot of problems.
> 
> ...


Also the only people I ever saw complain about doorman brutality are the ones who got agressvive and tried to fight a doorman and got thrown out and embarrassed in front of their mates and their girlfriends. In fact a lot of people who left clubs I worked out said thank you to me and my colleagues. I'm not saying there's not some who take it to far but it's a high pressure job where either you're at risk or someone else is at risk who you are respsobile to help if there's trouble in your club


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## Gweilo (Aug 25, 2019)

@Buka , I respect your comment,  and are sure this is an accurate explanation in your part of the world, but in England,  I am afraid the doorman until recently were not that professional,  I never went looking for trouble with these guys, but where I was bought up, 2/3 of the doorman where not professional,  of course I can only recall my personal experiences.


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## Gweilo (Aug 25, 2019)

Headhunter said:


> Also the only people I ever saw complain about doorman brutality are the ones who got agressvive and tried to fight a doorman and got thrown out and embarrassed in front of their mates and their girlfriends. In fact a lot of people who left clubs I worked out said thank you to me and my colleagues. I'm not saying there's not some who take it to far but it's a high pressure job where either you're at risk or someone else is at risk who you are respsobile to help if there's trouble in your club



Only had a couple of incidents with doorman, and not when they were working


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## Buka (Aug 25, 2019)

Gweilo said:


> @Buka , I respect your comment,  and are sure this is an accurate explanation in your part of the world, but in England,  I am afraid the doorman until recently were not that professional,  I never went looking for trouble with these guys, but where I was bought up, 2/3 of the doorman where not professional,  of course I can only recall my personal experiences.



I respect yours as well, my friend. And to clarify something, I mentioned I "watched" a lot of doormen. For a couple of years I worked as a "spotter". A spotter was somebody who was hired by management to frequent the club and surreptitiously watch bartenders, waitresses, bouncers and doorman to see if they were stealing, dealing or doing anything else illegal or bad for business. 

It wasn't a big deal if they were letting in a few friends without paying a cover charge, the owners didn't care. But if the friends caused problems, that was not good.

It was kind of boring when everything was on the up and up, but the pay was okay and the visuals usually interesting.


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## Danny T (Aug 25, 2019)

I had several incidences with doormen when I was on temp assignments to England in 73-74-75. Hell I even went back looking for them. Of course it wasn't their fault I went in or attempted to enter as an idiot under the influence of alcohol. Funny thing about alcohol induced behavior...it carries over from one pub to another. Even from a nice meal at a restaurant to a pub.

Those experiences allowed me to have some good experiences as a doorman for the short time I did such work. Working the door the only problems I ever saw another doorman have was with the 'like me idiots...the ones under the influence of alcohol'.


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## Gerry Seymour (Aug 25, 2019)

Gweilo said:


> I am not belittling all doorman, just most, I knew a couple who were good people, but for the most part not, we had 1 bouncer used to carry a snooker ball in a sock, yes I am sure you met some idiots, but in my day, the crap bouncers pulled, made their counterparts targets.


I offer this as a friendly thought: this sounds like confirmation bias doing its thing.


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## Gerry Seymour (Aug 25, 2019)

Gweilo said:


> Pmsl, I only ever had a couple of run ins with doorman, I learnt the effects of alcohol on performance very early in life, I knew the MO, of doorman, so avoided the  hyper inflated ego's


I've actually known quite a few guys who worked doors/clubs. Some had ego issues, but most of those guys didn't last long. Mostly, it was the guys with good control over themselves who had any staying power in the role.


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## Deleted member 34973 (Aug 26, 2019)

Tip your doorman and bouncers. I have found that if you do that, it shows them that you appreciate their efforts. 

Another thing it does, in my experience, in the beginning they watch to see if you are basically trying to bribe them. But, once the see you are there to have a good time and not cause any trouble, they will make sure that you are safe.

And, sometimes ask you for help.

I have never really had issues with bouncers. But, when I see that they are aggressive, I just leave and never come back to the establishment. I ain't there to fight, I am there to have a good time.


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## Deleted member 34973 (Aug 26, 2019)

As for dirty fighting, in the streets there is no such thing as a dirty technique.

In the ring, yes don't be an *******, you agreed to certain rules, have the integrity to follow them.


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## dvcochran (Aug 26, 2019)

Invisibleflash said:


> Or in 2019 does anything go?
> 
> Someone mentioned they added a new twist to the knockout game. After the random knockout on a stranger they pee on the unconscious person.


In the ring? Definitely. You know the rules before the match starts.
 On the street; to me in the vein of the run of the mill street fight where no weapons are used, peeing on the other person is escalating it into something very ripe for escalated violence and weapons. Just a very d**k move. I would expect my buddies to be all over that guy. 
In a true self defense situation, there are no rules. But there are degrees of escalation that the average person will follow. For example, the first response usually is not to try and kill the other person.


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## W.Bridges (Aug 26, 2019)

In the real would outside of a ring, there is no such think as a dirty fight. If I am attacked i will do what is necessary to defend myself and end the fight.


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## dvcochran (Aug 26, 2019)

W.Bridges said:


> In the real would outside of a ring, there is no such think as a dirty fight. If I am attacked i will do what is necessary to defend myself and end the fight.


I saw what part of the country you are from. I have been to Tulsa twice, only day trips so I know very little about your area. The way you word it all fights are life and death. Is that the way it is around there or do you never have scraps at the bar, etc...?


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## Kung Fu Wang (Aug 26, 2019)

Headhunter said:


> There are no rules in street fights plain and simple


If you have not been hit on the head by a brick, you may have not experienced a real street fight yet.

In one street fight, a guy ran away. After the fight was over, that guy came back with a brick in his hand. He told his friends it took him too much time to find that brick.


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## W.Bridges (Aug 27, 2019)

dvcochran said:


> I saw what part of the country you are from. I have been to Tulsa twice, only day trips so I know very little about your area. The way you word it all fights are life and death. Is that the way it is around there or do you never have scraps at the bar, etc...?


No not all fights are life or death but you never know in this day in time. I have been in a few bar scraps in my day. I use to work as security in night clubs for almost 10 years in Texas


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## geezer (Aug 27, 2019)

Dirty fighting?- Four guys and a pig. Dirty enough?


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## ShortBridge (Aug 27, 2019)

"The knockout game" isn't fighting, it's assault.


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## jobo (Aug 28, 2019)

Guthrie said:


> As for dirty fighting, in the streets there is no such thing as a dirty technique.
> 
> In the ring, yes don't be an *******, you agreed to certain rules, have the integrity to follow them.


hmm maybe. it really depends on context. most of the dirty fighting things arnt that effective. certainly not as effective as a really good punch that knocks them over. you really need to work on your core technique s and fitness before you start worry about " dirty techniques"  if your in serious trouble they are unlikely to make much differance to the out come, if your not in serious trouble, they wont make much differance to the outcome


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## Gweilo (Aug 28, 2019)

jobo said:


> dirty techniques" if your in serious trouble they are unlikely to make much differance to the out come, if your not in serious trouble, they wont make much differanc


That's not strictly true, I was witness to a fight in the early 90's, where 1 bloke decided to sink his teeth into his opponents facial cheek, the fight ended quite quickly.


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## jobo (Aug 28, 2019)

Gweilo said:


> That's not strictly true, I was witness to a fight in the early 90's, where 1 bloke decided to sink his teeth into his opponents facial cheek, the fight ended quite quickly.



I've seen people give up as soon as they realised that the other one isn't a push over. I've seen a lot more give up after they have had a stiff right hand, if the guys close enough to bite your cheek your already in trouble, but then it's not really a fight ender just a considerable annoyance, it then depends  on how motoravated they are to carry on


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## Gweilo (Aug 28, 2019)

All I can say is, the bloke doing the biting, was until that point loosing.


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## Deleted member 34973 (Aug 28, 2019)

jobo said:


> hmm maybe. it really depends on context. most of the dirty fighting things arnt that effective. certainly not as effective as a really good punch that knocks them over. you really need to work on your core technique s and fitness before you start worry about " dirty techniques"  if your in serious trouble they are unlikely to make much differance to the out come, if your not in serious trouble, they wont make much differance to the outcome


I think you misunderstood my comment. In an actual fight, there is no such thing as a clean or a dirty technique.

There is just the fight and surviving said fight. 

And realistically, putting your thumbs through an attackers eyesocket (while on the ground) is a pretty good deterrent and very effective in a fight. 

As for a really good punch, to knock them over...pretty much every combat sport, shows how difficult that actually is.

But as I stated, in a fight, there is no such thing as a clean or dirty technique.


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## jobo (Aug 28, 2019)

Guthrie said:


> I think you misunderstood my comment. In an actual fight, there is no such thing as a clean or a dirty technique.
> 
> There is just the fight and surviving said fight.
> 
> ...


but there are consequences, if you have them pinned to floor then blinding them is a little 9ver the top the fight is over, there may be legal implications or there brother may come round and shoot you as revenge. best not to

I agree to some extent, the think is that most of the dirt technique  are not effective, if your telling yourself that they are then your fooling yourselves, go and practise punching till you can knock them over,  or power lifting so you can throw them about like a rag doll,if you cant do that then your not going to be able to pin them to the floor so you can eye jab them either


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## Deleted member 34973 (Aug 28, 2019)

jobo said:


> but there are consequences, if you have them pinned to floor then blinding them is a little 9ver the top the fight is over, there may be legal implications or there brother may come round and shoot you as revenge. best not to
> 
> I agree to some extent, the think is that most of the dirt technique  are not effective, if your telling yourself that they are then your fooling yourselves, go and practise punching till you can knock them over,  or power lifting so you can throw them about like a rag doll,if you cant do that then your not going to be able to pin them to the floor so you can eye jap them either


Yeah, those two things you keep pushing, although important, might or might not help you. Neither are 100%.

The rag doll comment, is just a false sense of security. Muscles, although somewhat of a factor, really is only a small part of being able to effectively defend yourself. 

To quote you "if you think otherwise, you are fooling yourself"

I have seen plenty of muscle bounds, get destroyed by smaller people.


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## jobo (Aug 28, 2019)

Guthrie said:


> Yeah, those two things you keep pushing, although important, might or might not help you. Neither are 100%.
> 
> The rag doll comment, is just a false sense of security. Muscles, although somewhat of a factor, really is only a small part of being able to effectively defend yourself.
> 
> ...


nothing is a 100 % but as a general rule only strong people attack others, or at least they think they are in comparison,  scrawny weak people just dont randomly attack b8ig strong guys, unless there are a few of them or they are very drunk,, just never happens, technique  against strengh is an interesting debate, but why not have both then you have it covered any serious ma competitor  does some level of weight training


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## Deleted member 34973 (Aug 28, 2019)

jobo said:


> nothing is a 100 % but as a general rule only strong people attack others, or at least they think they are in comparison,  scrawny weak people just dont randomly attack b8ig strong guys, unless there are a few of them, just never happens, technique  against strengh is an interesting debate, but why not have both then you have it covered


Yes, the muscle bounds are usually the aggressive ones. Meatheads have a tendency to be bullies, I agree.

Stamina, is probably more important when it comes to combat, especially if you intend to run from it.

I remember watching three state wrestlers, attack four scrawny kids. It was a cruising area downtown.

 The scrawny kids were minding their own, walking down the street. When 3 high school state wrestlers decided to stop and beat them up. Apparently one had just won the state wrestling title and figured he was now a bad ***. 

In the end, all three lost, one was in the hospital for three months, because one muscle bound meathead, decided he could toss two around like rag dolls.

Of course he wasn't expecting to be continuously toe kicked in the face with scrawny cowboy boots.

It was hilarious and the 3 deserved that whoopin. Dirty fighting, help those boys tremendously. And, since they were attacked by crazy sporters. The cops let them walk away. Of course he called paramedics and arrested the state champion and his buddies.

3 meatheads down and 4 scrawny's walked away.


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## jobo (Aug 28, 2019)

Guthrie said:


> Yes, the muscle bounds are usually the aggressive ones. Meatheads have a tendency to be bullies, I agree.
> 
> Stamina, is probably more important when it comes to combat, especially if you intend to run from it.
> 
> ...


so your asking me to believe that 4 scrawny untrained kids hospitaled three state state champion standard wrestlers,  ? in which case it's clear that training ma at all is a waste of time. think you've just made that up


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## Deleted member 34973 (Aug 28, 2019)

jobo said:


> so your asking me to believe that 4 scrawny untrained kids hospitaled three state state champion standard wrestlers,  ? in which case it's clear that training ma at all is a waste of time. think you've just made that up


That is exactly what happened, they were sport fighters and the 4 scrawny kids, were simple streetfighters that fought dirty.

Hell even the cop laughed and told those wrestlers, to stay of the streets and keep that **** in the ring. His words not mine.

They problem with sport combat, it is not based in reality. So they do not train for realistic scenarios...like a toe kick to the face by two scrawny kids.

It doesn't matter how big you are, it doesn't matter how much of a sport champion you are, your MA training doesn't amount to squat, if you have zero real life experience.
That is the reality and is why the cop told him to keep it in the ring.


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## jobo (Aug 28, 2019)

Guthrie said:


> That is exactly what happened, they were sport fighters and the 4 scrawny kids, were simple streetfighters that fought dirty.
> 
> Hell even the cop laughed and told those wrestlers, to stay of the streets and keep that **** in the ring. His words not mine.


 sports fighters, what does 5hat mean, you said 5hey were state champion standard wrestlers, how did you know they were that ..? youd have to know who they were and exactly what fights they had had .
and they were" scrawny kids,  now your calling them street fighter

no mate your just making things up, to support your bogus point


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## Deleted member 34973 (Aug 28, 2019)

jobo said:


> sports fighters, what does 5hat mean, you said 5hey were state champion standard wrestlers, how did you know they were that ..? youd have to know who they were and exactly what fights they had had .
> 
> 
> no mate your just making things up, to support your bogus point


Meh...that is usually the go to statement.

You know meatheads, they like to brag about who and what they are, I guess they figure it means something.

But, you can believe it or not, that is up to you. I don't really buy into the idea that you have any experience concerning this subject anyways.

Sport Fighter, someone who trains and fights for competition exclusively.


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## jobo (Aug 28, 2019)

Guthrie said:


> Meh...that is usually the go to statement.
> 
> You know meatheads, they like to brag about who and what they are, I guess they figure it means something.
> 
> ...


right il choose not to believe you, it's getting more contrived by the minete, now they chose to stop and brag to you before the fight

even if theres the smallest grain of truth in it, it doesn't carry over to any other situation.

I know a good bit about the mechanics of fighting and defending myself, whilst I have some considerable doubts that you've ever had an adult fight or it would be obvious that a lot of what your saying is nonsence


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## Deleted member 34973 (Aug 28, 2019)

jobo said:


> right il choose not to believe you, it's getting more contrived by the minete, now they chose to stop and brag to you before the fight
> 
> even if theres the smallest grain of truth in it, it doesn't carry over to any other situation.
> 
> I know a good bit about the mechanics of fighting and defending myself, whilst I have some considerable doubts that you've ever had an adult fight or it would be obvious that a lot of what your saying is nonsence


Ok

No bickering allowed. Time to move on.


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## Gweilo (Aug 29, 2019)

@jobo 
no mate your just making things up, to support your bogus point

Lol, I think the the old saying about the pot calling the kettle black applies here.


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## Headhunter (Aug 29, 2019)

Sport fighter vs street fighter 








Note I'm not stating any opinions either way just sharing this video here. Honestly I think it's sad someone like Penn acting like this


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## Deleted member 39746 (Aug 29, 2019)

Headhunter said:


> Note I'm not stating any opinions either way just sharing this video here. Honestly I think it's sad someone like Penn acting like this



To be fair, if you routinely do sort of back yard unofficial fighting, you can get pretty good at fighting.  Experience trumps all really.   

Something i have semi noticed, how often is the high guard with the elbows used?    that can break hands.  




Guthrie said:


> They problem with sport combat, it is not based in reality. So they do not train for realistic scenarios...like a toe kick to the face by two scrawny kids.



the thing that springs to mind there is, if someone is doing violence in a  criminal manner they don't generally fight someone.   It will be a  ambush in some secluded location probably with weapons.    Obviously many different aspects of crime the usual motifs are different, i was citing the people more paid to hurt people as examples.  

You cant really do much if a hammer has been whacked over the back of your head two times before you can react to it.  

The adage "strike first strike last" applies to this as well.


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## Deleted member 34973 (Aug 29, 2019)

Rat said:


> To be fair, if you routinely do sort of back yard unofficial fighting, you can get pretty good at fighting.  Experience trumps all really.
> 
> Something i have semi noticed, how often is the high guard with the elbows used?    that can break hands.
> 
> ...


I am starting to realize, that the amount of willingness to accept pain and danger, is a major factor in people's opinion, concerning what is real martial artist and what is not, a real martial artist.

I think that this is the reality behind a lot of comments concerning how they see the importance of sport fighting, being based in an illusion of reality.


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## jobo (Aug 29, 2019)

Guthrie said:


> I am starting to realize, that the amount of willingness to accept pain and danger, is a major factor in people's opinion, concerning what is real martial artist and what is not, a real martial artist.
> 
> I think that this is the reality behind a lot of comments concerning how they see the importance of sport fighting, being based in an illusion of reality.


That's mostly true, but the use of real as a modifier,  is just you inflicting your definition on others. They are all martial artists because they study a martial art and that's all it requires.

The usefulness of what they learn to outside conflict is extremely variable not just on which art and how its trained but to their personal attributes  or lack of them and of course exactly who they are up against, 

Theres a young lady at my group, who is literal and figuratively  a "doll "if she is ever attacked by another 80lb girl she will whoop them against most other people she will have little chance


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## Deleted member 34973 (Aug 29, 2019)

jobo said:


> That's mostly true, but the use of real as a modifier,  is just you inflicting your definition on others. They are all martial artists because they study a martial art and that's all it requires.
> 
> The usefulness of what they learn to outside conflict is extremely variable not just on which art and how its trained but to their personal attributes  or lack of them and of course exactly who they are up against,
> 
> Theres a young lady at my group, who is literal and figuratively  a "doll "if she is ever attacked by another 80lb girl she will whoop them against most other people she will have little chance


I still disagree with your assessment. If you haven't successfully used in in a real life scenario...

You are just practicing, but your practice, is at best limited reality.

I believe it is those that have not, are the ones pushing a definition, that suits their pocket book.

But it is obvious that you and I will continue to disagree. Which means this will go absolutely nowhere.


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## jobo (Aug 29, 2019)

Guthrie said:


> I still disagree with your assessment. If you haven't successfully used in in a real life scenario...
> 
> You are just practicing, but your practice, is at best limited reality.
> 
> ...


Successful use is totally dependent on someone attacking you, if you live in a safe place and dont go round looking for trouble, use desculation skills, that is only a remote possibility. So you have to immediately  disqualified a great number of highly skilled fighters from your class of real ma. 

Then success is total dependent on the attributes of your attacker, so if you out manoeuvre a staggering drunks attempt to punch you,  then that makes you real ? Despite the case that you may have no developed skills at all that would work against a more able attackr

Your whole basis for this line of argument hasn't been thought though. At all. Your just suggesting a criteria that makes you real and others who may have greater abilities not real


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## Deleted member 34973 (Aug 29, 2019)

jobo said:


> Successful use is totally dependent on someone attacking you, if you live in a safe place and dont go round looking for trouble, use desculation skills, that is only a remote possibility. So you have to immediately  disqualified a great number of highly skilled fighters from your class of real ma.
> 
> Then success is total dependent on the attributes of your attacker, so if you out manoeuvre a staggering drunks attempt to punch you,  then that makes you real ? Despite the case that you may have no developed skills at all that would work against a more able attackr
> 
> Your whole basis for this line of argument hasn't been thought though. At all. Your just suggesting a criteria that makes you real and others who may have greater abilities not real


Well that would be to the fact, that they haven't tested their skill in reality. The rest of your comment is what I seen with the fighters in the 80's...if you don't point spar in tournaments, you cannot claim to be able to use your skills.

It's is the same b.s. rehashed by today's sport fighters.

You can't claim to have experience in something you have never done.

That is just ego.


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## jobo (Aug 29, 2019)

Guthrie said:


> Well that would be to the fact, that they haven't tested their skill in reality. The rest of your comment is what I seen with the fighters in the 80's...if you don't point spar in tournaments, you cannot claim to be able to use your skills.
> 
> It's is the same b.s. rehashed by today's sport fighters.
> 
> ...



That's not dealing with any of the points I've just made, that changing the subject


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## Deleted member 34973 (Aug 29, 2019)

jobo said:


> That's not dealing with any of the points I've just made, that changing the subject


Because your points are mute. You are trying to argue that you can do something, without any experience. And, you can't call yourself something that hasn't been actually earned.

Well you can, it just doesn't mean anything to those that have.


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## jobo (Aug 29, 2019)

Guthrie said:


> Because your points are mute. You are trying to argue that you can do something, without any experience. And, you can't call yourself something that hasn't been actually earned.
> 
> Well you can, it just doesn't mean anything to those that have.


My points are not mute ! Do you mean moot ?


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Aug 29, 2019)

Guthrie said:


> Yes, the muscle bounds are usually the aggressive ones. Meatheads have a tendency to be bullies, I agree.
> 
> Stamina, is probably more important when it comes to combat, especially if you intend to run from it.
> 
> ...


This story doesn't add up. 

First-you knew that all 3 were wrestlers, and that the one just won the state wrestling title? I can see this part on it's own, if you happened to be nearby while they were talking about it earlier. But if you were, you just chose to watch them get their *** whooped to the point they were hospitalized?

Second-you know how long the guy was in the hospital for? You decided to follow up with him?

Third-they just let them walk away? I'd imagine the response would be to arrest them, or at least detain them, to figure out what happened. Arrest everyone involved, then sort it out.

The big thing for me is you claim to know how long the guy was in the hospital for, which I don't get how you would unless he was a buddy and/or family friend of yours. And if you knew the guy, why were you just watching them as they planned to beat up some scrawny dudes? Then watching them as they got beat up?


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## Headhunter (Aug 29, 2019)

kempodisciple said:


> This story doesn't add up.
> 
> First-you knew that all 3 were wrestlers, and that the one just won the state wrestling title? I can see this part on it's own, if you happened to be nearby while they were talking about it earlier. But if you were, you just chose to watch them get their *** whooped to the point they were hospitalized?
> 
> ...


Lol that moment when someone's bs story gets exposed as bs


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