# Wanted: knife for self-defense



## grace_ashley (Mar 10, 2010)

Hi,

I am trying to find a good self-defense knife that suits my needs.  On behalf of anyone else who might be in my position and stumble across the forum like I did, I thought Id post and hopefully get some feedback even though Im not a regular poster.

First, let me say that Im learning knife-fighting basics and self defense skills right now.  There is no way Id be foolish enough to carry a real weapon I dont know how to use.  Once I got mugged when I had Mace on me, and I hadnt bothered to see how the sprayer operated!  I am _never_ putting myself in this situation again!  Luckily I was in Africa at the time and these men had never come across Mace before.  But now that Ive found an instructor, I feel confident enough to buy a knife and use it to defend myself.   

Im a 21-year-old female college student on a small campus in the southern United States.  I need a knife that will fit in my pocket or clip to the waist of my pants.  I dont want it to be conspicuous (like, Hey everyone, Ive got a knife!).  It needs to not look vicious in case a judge/jury has to see it; also, it needs to be legal for a college campus!  It needs to have a good handle grip so it wont slip if my hands are wet or sweaty.  It needs to be easy to open and have a strong lock, and the blade should be strong enough that it wont break not that Ill be taking apart cargo ships or anything, but it would be nice to have confidence in a strong blade.  It needs to come sharp and be easy for me to sharpen.  The blade shouldnt be too long, but it should be long enough to be effective.  Also, my budget is around $30 to $40.  Id like to buy something online for a lack of time to go to stores, knife shows, etc. 

Id very much appreciate any input and/or advice here; I dont know much about knives, and the options are a little overwhelming.     

Thanks in advance,
grace


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## Touch Of Death (Mar 10, 2010)

Avoid "Rambo Knives" and stick with a basic pocket knife. I would recoment you at least pay $80 or more. Cheap knifes break. Stay away from pretty ornimental knives as well; because, they are designed to break on impact.
Sean


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## Blindside (Mar 10, 2010)

grace_ashley said:


> Hi,
> 
> Also, my budget is around $30 to $40. Id like to buy something online for a lack of time to go to stores, knife shows, etc.


 
You need to handle the knives, I don't know how big your hand is, or simply what might feel comfortable in it.  Spend the time at a cutlery store.  Given your budget, take a look at the Columbia River Knife and Tool selection, very good bang for your buck.


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## wushuguy (Mar 10, 2010)

well, it would depend on what is considered legal for you to carry on campus then?

http://www.trueswords.com/cold-steel-voyagersmed-clip-plain-p-1886.html
-sturdy lock
-light weight

http://www.knifecenter.com/kc_new/store_detail.html?s=BM556P
-my wife uses the benchmade knife in the kitchen (but her's is a pretty color)
-lock seems sturdy enough
-light weight and size good for smaller lady's hands
-get a colorful one and it looks cute


Also, when you get a knife, practice with it. practice opening it, drawing it, taking it out of pocket/purse, etc. knowing how to use training knives in class are one thing, but swinging a real knife needs practice too. 

http://www.knifecenter.com/kc_new/store_detail.html?s=CS12BT
-easy to use, no worry about lock failure.
-light weight


Since you're training with a knife now, remember once it comes out, you can't be scared, have to force yourself to have the instinct to use it as you train, otherwise the knife can be a liability.


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## frank raud (Mar 10, 2010)

Speak with the person who is providing your knife training, differnt styles of knife work can require different shapes and styles of blade. Get something suitable for the training you are receiving. Also consider a fixed blade, less parts to go wrong.


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## jks9199 (Mar 10, 2010)

Spyderco has a line of knives it calls the Byrd series.  They're not made quite to Spyderco's usual standards -- but they cost about 1/3 as much as they're regular line.  And they're still good solid knives that the company backs.  You might look at the Cara Cara; I like it. It's a good utility knife that you can also use to defend yourself.

Do check your school policies as well as the laws in your area.  You don't want to either get kicked out of school or get a criminal record...


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## David43515 (Mar 10, 2010)

First of all find out what`s legal where you are. (google "Bernard Levine Knife Laws", it`ll give you the basic weapon laws for every state in the union.) Then find out if there`s any university policy on knives and or weapons. Like others have said, you don`t want to get arrested or kicked out of school for breaking policy. Find the school policy in writing if at all possilbe. If not ask the campus police if you can carry a pocket knife on campus and _for the love of God don`t say it`s for self defense._


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## David43515 (Mar 11, 2010)

Once you know what you can and can`t carry, I`d look for a plain edge without serrations. You said you want something easy to resharpen, and one that doesn`t look sinister if you should ever have to defend it`s use in court. A plain edge fits the bill better on both counts.

       If you want it for self defense, you should be able to open it with one hand, prefferably either hand. So if it has a thumb stud instead of a hole in the blade the stud should be on both sides.

       If it`s a pain to carry, you won`t. So get something smaller. When you have it tucked in your waistband and you sit id a car it should still be comfortable.

        If the model you like has a slippery handle, you can fix that with a peice grip tape used on skateboards and around swimming pools.

        You might consider lookinh at a simle boxcutter. You wouldn`t be able to stab, but they`re cheap, new razor-sharp baldes pop right in, and they may not draw as much attention at university as a knife would.

        In any case don`t take it out all the time to show people. Most folks, perhaps even your roommates don`t need to know you carry a blade. Remember what knife instructor James Keating says "Weapons may be present, but they shouldn`t be seen. If weapons are seen, you shouldn`t be present."


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## grace_ashley (Mar 11, 2010)

I giggled at the reminder not to tell campus police Im buying a knife for self-defense.  Besides the fact that I'd end up their "bad kid" list, they would act really offended if I implied that I needed more defense than they provide. No worries here, Im not going to wave any of my knives around I am careful not to have this sort of reputation.  Even my lessons are on the d.l.   what I am learning right now is more rape aggression defense than anything, so even while Im learning wholeheartedly Im still traveling rough ground emotionally and not dying to tell everyone I know!  Anyway, Im not the kind of person you would ever envision being stabbed by : D  Except for a few close friends at college who know me better, not many people could possibly conceive of me carrying a knife and being really prepared to use it.  But a few nasty situations make even the nicest girls prepared and serious but I'm deviating off topic here.

I will do a lot of practice with the knife I buy before I actually start to carry it.  Like I said, Im wary of carrying weapons I dont know how to use.    

The legal issue has worried me most in all this.  Even now, without a knife, if someone randomly jumps me and I am able to retaliate and hurt them, I dont want to get in legal trouble.  However, I am going to defend myself.  Seems that anything less will just make a bad guy want to hurt more women.  

My school handbook says, Students are prohibited from 
possession of firearms or weapons on College 
property or at events sponsored or supervised 
by the College or any recognized College 
organization. The possession or use of any 
other offensive weapons such as machetes, 
bows and arrows, knives, switchblades, and 
swords are prohibited.  I will do more research here to find out exactly what this means, and Ill also ask a friend of mine, whos a lawyer (and heavy into weapons himself), to help me really understand the state laws.  

The spyderco knives with holes instead of thumb studs seem tricky.  Aren't they harder to flip out?  I definitely want to practice with one of these before I ever buy one.  Wushuguy, I like the knife in your second link. (It does have a butterfly)  It looks like it can be opened and closed with one hand.  Also, its small enough to be safely within blade length restrictions theyre mostly under 3


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## wushuguy (Mar 11, 2010)

spyderco knives are simple and easy to open and close, but in my experience many of them feel flimsy at the lock. that said some benchmade models also feel flimsy, but of three benchmade models vs three spyderco models, 2 of 3 benchmades i own have great locks. the 3rd has a liner lock, which feels flimsy if pressure is applied laterally, but i think all liner locks may be like this. the spyderco have lock back, but there is some play with 2 out of 3 of them, they may have been just sub par knives, but 2 of 3 like this?

from my understanding, no weapons on campus, listing knives, means that you can't carry a weapon knife. but if you get a cute pocket knife, you might be able to pass it of that you use it to peel apples and such. however it would be best to approach those in your campus that know how the campus interprets such wording of their law. nowadays even kids with lego guns will get busted, so you really have to know.


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## KenpoTex (Mar 18, 2010)

Based on your criteria, I'd say the Spyderco Delica is about the best option available.  Easy and positive to open (particularly if you get the "waved" model), strong lock, great blade steel, fairly innocuous looking, and reasonably priced.

I've got several Spyderco knives (including the Delica) that I've carried and used for years and they have outlasted several higher priced, fancier knives.

If you don't like those, I'd recommend spending a little more and buying a Benchmade Mini-Griptilian.  The Benchmade Axis-Lock is one of the best out there and the Griptilian comes in lots of "innocent" colors (pink, yellow, blue, etc.)

Now for my general knife advice:

-avoid liner-locks, there are better designs out there at any price point
-stick with a plain edge, much easier to sharpen and will be less prone to snagging
-Google search the model you want to shop for the cheapest price...don't buy from the manufacturer.


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## TigerCraneGuy (Mar 18, 2010)

KenpoTex said:


> Based on your criteria, I'd say the Spyderco Delica is about the best option available. Easy and positive to open (particularly if you get the "waved" model), strong lock, great blade steel, fairly innocuous looking, and reasonably priced.
> 
> I've got several Spyderco knives (including the Delica) that I've carried and used for years and they have outlasted several higher priced, fancier knives.
> 
> ...


 
I second the Spyderco suggestion. Fantastic knives, and imho, the Spyder-hole brings the knife into action more easily then a thumb-stud.

Just got myself a P'Kal and already, it's my favourite knife. Swift to bring into play (with the Wave mechanism), superbly balanced, and it fluidly indexes into Reverse Grip Edge In, which I'm starting to discover works well for me (using Keating's Drawpoint and Floro's FFS methodology).

Just waiting on the trainer and my Shivworks DVDs to arrive now ...


Cheers

BTW: How's it going with the P'Kal, Tex? Understand you've been carrying one for a while.


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## KenpoTex (Mar 18, 2010)

I like it a lot and still carry it very frequently.  I really think it's the best folder on the market for its intended application.

You will be very happy with the Shivworks DVDs...all 4 of them are top-notch.  I trained with SouthNarc this past summer (ECQC I&II, my review is posted on this site) and it was one of the best training experiences I've had thus far.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Mar 18, 2010)

Based on my knowledge of college campuses and their rules I would confidently say that having a pocket knife on your possession would be viewed as a weapon by many administrators.  Please contact an administrator on your campus to find out if they actually allow legal limit knives for students.

However if you are able to carry then benchmade is an excellent choice!


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## KenpoTex (Mar 18, 2010)

Brian R. VanCise said:


> Based on my knowledge of college campuses and their rules I would confidently say that having a pocket knife on your possession would be viewed as a weapon by many administrators.  Please contact an administrator on your campus to find out if they actually allow legal limit knives for students.
> 
> However if you are able to carry then benchmade is an excellent choice!



Personally, when it comes to knives, I tend to be the type to say **** it, do it anyway.  

You can always pass it off as a tool (which, of course, it is) and a knife is so easy to conceal, there should literally be no reason for anyone to see it unless you need to use it.

There is a line between following the asinine rules (which, it should be noted, are the regulations of that establishment.  Not laws that carry criminal penalties), and leaving yourself totally defenseless.

Disclaimer:  This is not legal advice, this is not encouragement to break the law, this is my own personal opinion...blah, blah, blah.


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## Hawke (Mar 21, 2010)

Intent on use can land you in hot water which you already know.

Highly doubtful you can have a fixed blade on campus, so your options are probably folders less than 3".

I see a lot of people recommending straight plain blade over serrations.  A plain blade may or may not slice through clothing, but may penetrate (stab).  While a serrated knife may better cut through clothing.  There are exceptions.  

Get some meat and wrap some cheap t-shirts around and around until you have a few layers.  See what will cut through.  See if your knife will cut through some old jeans.  Practicing in the air is one thing and practicing against material is another.  You want to know if your knife can cut through clothing before you ever have to face that situation.  You might not be lucky enough to fight against someone that is topless.

Spyderco's serrated blades can be sharpened by the company ($20.00 plus $5 for S&H).  A knife dealer near you may be able to re-serrate the knife at a lower cost.

Cuteryshoppe sells some Spyderco knives
http://www.cutleryshoppe.com/spyderco.aspx

Check the internet for better prices from a reputable dealer.


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## HerbM (Jun 5, 2010)

Didn't catch your state, but anyone looking for a legal self-defense knife needs to at least know the rules locally.

Usually 3" or less is legal most any place -- and women who don't show them unnecessarily are usually given a pass by most police including campus police -- a guy is much more likely to get frisked for some other reason and to get arrested or reported if a technically illegal knife is found.

Some states let you go big, but the OP is looking for something inconspicuous in any case so this largely argues for smaller folders.

Another poster mentioned the Spyderco Delica -- I carried a pair of these for about 10 years (started with these because originally we could take them on airplanes until 9/11.)

They are probably more expensive now, but I only paid $35 for the fixed clip, and $40 for the reversible pocket clip model (to ride left side).  That was right on the budget for the OP.

Living in Texas, I can go to 5 1/2", so now I carry a ColdSteel Voyager XL (5") right and a ColdSteel Spartan (4 1/2") left side.   These cost $58 each (tax and shipping included, a littler more than the OPs budget.

But if theses are too large or to expensive I would definitely recommend looking at ColdSteel's other offerings, e.g., smaller Voyagers such as the medium or large.

You will save a little on the smaller size.

Finally, this wasn't asked, but make SURE you can always get to the tool.  Of course pocket clips work pretty well, but if you decide to put in INTO a purse, make sure you clip it somewhere accessible and always in the same place and practice getting it out (a lot, regularly, frequently...)

Same goes for pepper sprays, stun guns, whistles, firearms., etc. -- you must be able to put your hand on it immediately and access it even if you are already under attack, knocked down, etc...

The best knife for self-defense?  The one you have in your hand when you are attacked....

I would also strongly recommend AMOK! training with Tom Sotis and attending one of the local training groups if you can find one near you.

The focus in AMOK! is using a knife to go home safe, but the methods of accessing taught and practice directly  translate to accessing any self-defense tool, e.g., gun, knife, whistle, pepper spray, stun gun, or just getting time and space to RUN.

-- 
HerbM


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## Stick Dummy (Jun 5, 2010)

Get yourself a good steak knife with matching fork and spoon and carry them with you...

Easy to explain and none of the hassles of a "tactical" folder.

This came from a now deceased friend with lots of experience overseas in some not so friendly places.
 Kept him alive past retirement.


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## sgtmac_46 (Jun 6, 2010)

I'm assuming by now you've alread gotten your blade.

The key at this point is the right combination of concealment and accessibility.........that and the right mindset that if the time comes you'll use it to defend yourself.


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## frank raud (Jun 6, 2010)

Stick Dummy said:


> Get yourself a good steak knife with matching fork and spoon and carry them with you...
> 
> Easy to explain and none of the hassles of a "tactical" folder.
> 
> ...


 

How do you carry all this cutlery, while allowing you quick access to the knife when necessary?


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## Stick Dummy (Jun 6, 2010)

Frank that's kind of a no brainer, no flame intended. For a young lady a purse, open topped tote bag, lunch bag, or any accessible pocket, external pouch are options. Ideally its in the hand, but socio-enviromental discretion is called for.
Wrapping the "tools" in a handkercheif, napkin with the knife handle being readily accessible worked for me through 8 years of college, and has worked in a number of locations that would not have allowed ANY type of "tactical" knife period.

The mind and mindset determine the use of any tool for self defense.


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## Cryozombie (Jun 6, 2010)

Lately I have been a fan of the folding "husky" boxcutters from Home Depot with the Thumb Studs and pocket clips.

It ain't no weapon.  Its a tool, I use it on the job and around the house, and the paint and gunk that it has on it should be enough evidence of that... of course the blade is razor sharp, I *just* replaced it.


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## tellner (Jun 6, 2010)

Cryozombie, the only problem with them is they don't reach to the bottom of the peanut butter jar.


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## lklawson (Jun 7, 2010)

HerbM said:


> The focus in AMOK! is using a knife to go home safe, but the methods of accessing taught and practice directly  translate to accessing any self-defense tool, e.g., gun, knife, whistle, pepper spray, stun gun, or just getting time and space to RUN.


A firearm and a knife are vastly different tools.  They work differently and are used differently and therefore "present" differently.  They are carried differently the vast majority of the time.  I can't see anything more than a couple of general, basic, presentation concepts which translate (don't let your tool be part of the clutter on the bottom of your purse, etc.)

Please don't take offense, but I've seen way too many experts in one weapon believe that it means they're experts in another, especially as it comes to carry and presentation of defensive firearms.  I've had to bite my tongue on more than one occasion because an otherwise experienced and capable martial arts instructor believed he could teach quick and proper presentation of a concealed firearm.

Knife training for knives, gun training for guns.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## HerbM (Jun 7, 2010)

lklawson said:


> A firearm and a knife are vastly different tools.  They work differently and are used differently and therefore "present" differently.  They are carried differently the vast majority of the time.  I can't see anything more than a couple of general, basic, presentation concepts which translate (don't let your tool be part of the clutter on the bottom of your purse, etc.)
> 
> Please don't take offense, but I've seen way too many experts in one weapon believe that it means they're experts in another, especially as it comes to carry and presentation of defensive firearms.  I've had to bite my tongue on more than one occasion because an otherwise experienced and capable martial arts instructor believed he could teach quick and proper presentation of a concealed firearm.
> 
> ...



I think you have actually misunderstood where the overlap is trained, and that is likely my fault for not making it more explicit:

Up to the point you present your weapon, surviving the initial attack (most will be surprise attacks), getting space, and beginning to access are pretty much identical.

So is "running" if we treat that as a form of access that follows the other steps.

But there are in addition some similarities between the actual draw of a knife and the draw of a pistol, even though you are quite right that they are different enough to require significantly different practice.

Watch "Die Less Often" or at least the small clips of it on YouTube...

The key is that until you get the time and space to access you have a "combatives problem" not a "weapons problem".  


-- 
HerbM


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## lklawson (Jun 8, 2010)

HerbM said:


> Up to the point you present your weapon, surviving the initial attack (most will be surprise attacks), getting space, and beginning to access are pretty much identical.
> 
> So is "running" if we treat that as a form of access that follows the other steps.
> [...]
> The key is that until you get the time and space to access you have a  "combatives problem" not a "weapons problem".


That, to me anyway, qualifies as one of those general, basic, concepts such as "don't let your tool be part of the clutter on the bottom of your purse,"  etc.



> Watch "Die Less Often" or at least the small clips of it on YouTube...


I've always liked and recommended the DB stuff.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## Cryozombie (Jun 8, 2010)

tellner said:


> Cryozombie, the only problem with them is they don't reach to the bottom of the peanut butter jar.



Sokay by me, I prefer the peanut butter thats close to the surface anyhow... around the lid and such.


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## Shin71 (Sep 3, 2010)

You might go to a gun/knife show and look around.  Find something you like that has some type of name to it that isn't made in China or similar then go home, research the knife and if it seems right find a good price for one off of the internet or somewhere else...


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## lklawson (Sep 8, 2010)

Shin71 said:


> You might go to a gun/knife show and look around.  Find something you like that has some type of name to it that isn't made in China or similar then go home, research the knife and if it seems right find a good price for one off of the internet or somewhere else...


I have a nice scar I gave myself (accident of handling/usage) on the back of my knuckles from a cheap pakistani lockback.

Cheap crap doesn't mean worthless.  The lockup on my paki was solid and never failed.  The blade was cheep stainless that didn't hold an edge very long under working conditions but could get razor sharp and would slash or thrust as well as any expensive knife.

Look, I know that the "buy expensive name brands" is really a recommendation to buy a knife that won't fail when you need it most because of poor quality materials or workmanship but a lot of folks seem to forget that a knife is still a knife even if it's "cheap crap."

The vast majority of knife assaults are performed with cheap knives, not custom Randals or even Bokers and assembly line Cold Steels.  And yet the criminals manage to assault people without having their cheap crap china stainless knives explode in their hands.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled knife brand wars.  

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## padric (Oct 28, 2010)

Coming in late to this thread I hope you have your self defense issue resolved. If not do so immediately. I would reccomend hideawayknife.com, I carry mine a 440c tiger claw, never leave home without it.


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## Gaius Julius Caesar (Nov 5, 2010)

The man I crosstrain Pekiti Tarsia under never carries a knife.

 He carries a pen, a long and strong pin.

 I like knife techniques that don't require you to have an edge like a strait razor and generate alot of power so they double as impacts with a dull blade, a peice of wood or your bare hand.

 On the other hand you have the above and a nice, good quality sharpe fighting knife and force is now multiplied.=)


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