# Fast Food Nation



## hardheadjarhead (Feb 27, 2004)

I'm reading Eric Schlosser's "Fast Food Nation", a damning expose on the food industry and the incredible impact its had on American culture, business, labor, farming, and politics...not to mention American health.  

Its an incredible book...a real page turner.  Anybody else read it?  If so, what'd you think?

Unnorthkyosa, if you haven't read it, you'd probably like it.  



Regards,


Steve


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## michaeledward (Feb 27, 2004)

Fast Food Nation is one of the books that is on my reading list, but I haven't got to it yet. Not sure I want to, because I will never be able to eat at McDonalds again. That might be too high a price to pay 


I recently read 'Refer Madness' by Schlosser. Sex, Drugs, and Cheap Labor in America. It was also an excellent book; illuminating the 'Underground Economy'. 

Perhaps the neatest thing I learned, is that the 'Adam & Eve' company (an adult cataloge and store) was started to provide birth control to poor countries around the world. Even today, they continue to contribute and distribute birth control products around the world. Good For Them.


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## theletch1 (Feb 27, 2004)

michaeledward said:
			
		

> Fast Food Nation is one of the books that is on my reading list, but I haven't got to it yet. Not sure I want to, because I will never be able to eat at McDonalds again. That might be too high a price to pay
> 
> 
> I recently read 'Refer Madness' by Schlosser. Sex, Drugs, and Cheap Labor in America. It was also an excellent book; illuminating the 'Underground Economy'.
> ...


I suppose the Adam and Eve company could be used as an analogy for the American gun companies.  If the gun companies sold/donated bullet proof vests maybe they wouldn't be looking at so many lawsuits. :uhyeah:


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## Ender (Feb 27, 2004)

Yes I'd like fries with that!..demmit!...*L


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## Makalakumu (Feb 27, 2004)

Thanks for the heads up, Steve.  I've been thinking about the topics presented by that book quite a bit.  Curious, why did I suddenly pop to mind while you were reading/thinking about this book?


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## tshadowchaser (Feb 27, 2004)

Would you care to tell us a few of the topics that the books cover?


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## hardheadjarhead (Feb 28, 2004)

upnorthkyosa said:
			
		

> Thanks for the heads up, Steve.  I've been thinking about the topics presented by that book quite a bit.  Curious, why did I suddenly pop to mind while you were reading/thinking about this book?




If I recall correctly, you've expressed a passion for social activism and /or awareness along these lines.



> Would you care to tell us a few of the topics that the books cover?




I can't tell you about Schlosser's second book, "Reefer Madness" (it is next on the list...having bought it), but "Fast Food Nation" chronicles the rise of the fast food companies like McDonald's, Burger King, etc...Schlosser manages to tie that in with Walt Disney, interestingly.  He writes about the development of the food flavoring industry, the rise of the potato processing industry, the decline of the independent farmer and cattle rancher in America and why that has occured, the dynamics of the beef packaging industry and its effect on migrant workers, sanitiaton conditions in the food industry and how it effects the spread of disease, the diminished role of the FDA and OSHA in regulating these industries, the politics involved in all of this, and finally the effect of fast food on our physical well being.  LOTS OF MATERIAL.  Its amazing what effect the fast food industry has had on American culture and our economy.

For some of you that might sound dry, but Schlosser is an engaging writer...I find I can't put it down.  Everybody I know who has read it has concurred that it is a superbly written and researched book.


Regards,


Steve


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## ShaolinWolf (Feb 28, 2004)

eh, I rarely eat fast food. I used to eat it all the time, but for some reason me and my family stopped going and now I rarely eat anything dast food. I think it's been almost 3-4 months now since I had anything except maybe a salad, shake, Mcflurry, Frosty or ice cream from a fast food restaurant. Oh, I did have some checker's fries and a burger back in the end of October. But Fast food is more of a treat for me, as wierd as that sounds. I mean not having that isn't like it's a huge treat, but getting an occasional fry or burger every few months is good. Just not all the time. Too much fats and calories for me. Makes me sick too. It's kind of like Ice cream. Maybe once a week or twice, but not 5-7 days a week.


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## hardheadjarhead (Feb 29, 2004)

As I mentioned, it isn't just about the effects of fast food on the body...but he does mention how the U.S. is one of the leading western nations insofar as the obesity epidemic goes.

He crams the book full of fascinating tidbits.  America's children, for instance, spend on average fully one month's worth of time out of every year...one twelfth of their lives...watching television.

Possibly inspired by this book, a documentarian made a movie of his experience eating NOTHING but McDonald's for breakfast, lunch and dinner for one month.  If the person behind the counter asked if he wanted it supersized, he would agree to have it supersized.

It nearly killed him.  His liver, according to his doctor, turned into a pate...his liver enzymes were out of whack.  His blood cholesterol doubled to a very dangerous level.  He got depressed, lost his libido, and his complexion went to Hell.  He gained twenty five pounds (17 kilograms according to the British press...take your pick as to which number is likely accurate).  Towards the end he was throwing up...his body rejecting the diet.

One month.  Had he been on the diet for a year, he would have blossomed to nearly five hundred pounds.

In any case, I keep running into people who have read "Fast Food Nation" and they all have the same assessment of the book.  They all say something  along the lines of "fantastic".  I have to agree.



Regards,


Steve


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## someguy (Mar 2, 2004)

I read a small exert from it in one of my classes.  It was fairly intresting to read.  Maybe if I have some time to kill I'll read the whole thing.  
It becomes fairly hard to eat at a fast food restraunt if become a vegitarian though so I myself rarely do.


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## OULobo (Mar 2, 2004)

hardheadjarhead said:
			
		

> Possibly inspired by this book, a documentarian made a movie of his experience eating NOTHING but McDonald's for breakfast, lunch and dinner for one month.  If the person behind the counter asked if he wanted it supersized, he would agree to have it supersized.
> 
> It nearly killed him.  His liver, according to his doctor, turned into a pate...his liver enzymes were out of whack.  His blood cholesterol doubled to a very dangerous level.  He got depressed, lost his libido, and his complexion went to Hell.  He gained twenty five pounds (17 kilograms according to the British press...take your pick as to which number is likely accurate).  Towards the end he was throwing up...his body rejecting the diet.
> 
> ...



I read about this guy and I think we discussed it here on the forum. It definitly shows the effects of fast food in the extreme, but many doctors are saying that the damage that was reported on his liver was because he was eating extremely healthy for a really long time and then went to extremely unhealth in such a short period of time. If he had been exposed to fast food earlier, he wouldn't have had as bad a reaction. That being said, the weight, cholesterol and other negative effects of fast food are well known, well documented and rarely argued.


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## ShaolinWolf (Mar 2, 2004)

Man, I think its pretty pathetic when somebody actually writes a book on how a nation's diet is fast food. That just strikes me funny...LOL. I mean, it's true, but to the extent that we of America have gotten that bad. Yeah...


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## Makalakumu (Sep 24, 2004)

Hey, I found it!  

Thanks for the book tip, Steve.  I finished the book.  Wow.  There are so many issues this book presents....

1.  Government subsidies and the rise of multinationals.
2.  The weakening of workplace safety standards.
3.  The overall reduction in wages.
4.  How a corporation fights unions by creating revolving door jobs.
5.  The blatent abuse of immegant workers.  
6.  The end result of deregulation.
7.  "There is **** in the meat"
8.  "Public health is not profitable"
9.  School children get the worst meat the industry has to offer.
10.  America, the empire of fat...

There is so much in this book, that it is truly a classic.  This book is not like the typical political book whose themes die in late november.  This book describes reality and that reality is supremely disturbing.

I've had some friends who have said this book convinced them to turn vegitarian.  I won't go that far, but my consumer choices as far as my food is concerned have truly been enlightened.

upnorthkyosa


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## dubljay (Sep 24, 2004)

I had to read exscrips for a humanities class...  i found it quite interesting


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## RandomPhantom700 (Sep 25, 2004)

I haven't read the book, but to be honest I'm not seeing what the point is in him doing the one-month McDonalds diet, other than as a sensationalistic stunt.  I mean, c'mon, even the worst of us don't eat nothing but McDonalds for a month straight; more to the point, it's not like his dietary venture brought anything new to the table, pardon the pun.  We all know that fast food isn't healthy, and shouldn't take a heavy part of your diet.  In short, I don't know what the diet stunt was supposed to prove.


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## SenseiBear (Sep 25, 2004)

RandomPhantom700 said:
			
		

> I haven't read the book, but to be honest I'm not seeing what the point is in him doing the one-month McDonalds diet, other than as a sensationalistic stunt.  I mean, c'mon, even the worst of us don't eat nothing but McDonalds for a month straight; more to the point, it's not like his dietary venture brought anything new to the table, pardon the pun.  We all know that fast food isn't healthy, and shouldn't take a heavy part of your diet.  In short, I don't know what the diet stunt was supposed to prove.


Do we all know that?  I can think of half a dozen people at work who get fast food for themselves and their kids at least once a day...

Plus, vaugely "knowing" something and witnessing it are two very different things.  One is a passing intellectual thought, the other kicks you in the gut.


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## Makalakumu (Sep 25, 2004)

There is more to the book then fast food.  The book talks about the meatpacking industry in general.  In the sixties, butchers were unionized, skilled, high paying labor.  During the conservative revolution, the unions were broken, wages plummeted, and all of the workers were replaced with immigrants.  

Now meat packing is one of the most dangerous jobs in America.  The emphasis on throughput has turned disassembly lines with hundreds of people on them into quisenarts making 10,000 cuts a day.  The workers are moving so fast that they often cut themselves and other people around them.  In response, the meatpacking industry forces their workers to wear chain mail.  *CHAIN MAIL*.  

On the kill floor, the slaughterhouses are busting through thousands of cattle a day.  If the animal is improperly stunned and stuck, there is no time to go back.  Live animals regularly are skinned, disemboweled and dismemembered.  A worker gets about a minute to disembowel an animal (field dress for those who hunt - this process takes me at minimum a half an hour).  Because of this speed, fecal matter from the cattles gigantic intestines spill all over the meat.  The meat is not washed.  It is cut up and packed and sent to the grocery stores complete with its **** topping.  

Cattle regularly fall on people.  People regularly fall into the machines.  People regularly slip and fall in the ankle deep blood.  And yet the conservatives push for deregulation of this industry.  No microbe testing.  No OSHA inspections.  No Ergonomic standards.  Nothing that would slow down the line speeds.  In my opinion, this only occurs because these workers are latino.  The underlying racism is obvious.

Here is a couple more things a small portion of the book reveals.  Did you know that if you are injured and you go to a doctor that is not a company doctor you can be fired?  Even if you know that the company doctor is going to tell you that you just pulled a muscle and put you back on the line.  Did you know that if you lose an arm, it is worth 30,000 dollars?  This is a permanent disability.  Did you know that the most conservative states _require _ company doctors to inspect injuries before workers comp can be awarded?  Did you know that if you eat a hamburger at Mcdonalds, get sick, and say it must have been the beef, you can be thrown in jail?

The Bush Administration has done nothing but continue this downward spiral.  They have continually opposed testing for BSE.  They have opposed the feeding of ruminants to ruminants, the process that spreads mad cow.  They nixed the ergonomic standards that would have protected workers from cumulative injuries.  They also nixed the testing for salmonella in the federal school lunch program.  They have shown broad support for taking the worst food, the animals that go into the slaughter houses dead or so diseased they cannot walk, and feeding it to people who buy food stamps, the military, and to school children.  So, whose opportunity does the _Opportunity Society_, provide?

upnorthkyosa


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## shesulsa (Sep 25, 2004)

This reminds me of the book "Diet For a New America"  by John Robbins.  He was heir to the Baskin-Robbins estate and was readying himself to get into the family business and decided one of the best ways to do that would be to visit the dairy farms.  He was shocked, but continued on to the slaughterhouses which incensed him to visit poultry farms and porcine processing plants.

 He is now vegan and has completely denounced his family business and fortune.


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## Makalakumu (Sep 25, 2004)

It just occured to me. Those stomach bugs that pass through schools so frequently, are now suspect.


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## PeachMonkey (Sep 25, 2004)

RandomPhantom700 said:
			
		

> I haven't read the book, but to be honest I'm not seeing what the point is in him doing the one-month McDonalds diet, other than as a sensationalistic stunt.



The stunt you mention is from the film "Super-Size Me", not the book by Eric Schlosser.

And I think you'd be surprised by just how much damage one month of McDonald's did to that guy, even knowing that it's not good for you.


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## hardheadjarhead (Sep 25, 2004)

shesulsa said:
			
		

> This reminds me of the book "Diet For a New America"  by John Robbins.  He was heir to the Baskin-Robbins estate and was readying himself to get into the family business and decided one of the best ways to do that would be to visit the dairy farms.  He was shocked, but continued on to the slaughterhouses which incensed him to visit poultry farms and porcine processing plants.
> 
> He is now vegan and has completely denounced his family business and fortune.




Robbins is interviewed by Morgan Spurlock in "Supersize Me", the documentary Peachmonkey makes reference to.  I read Robbins' book...it was good.  I didn't eat meat for four years after that.

RP 700...I can see how one could confuise the documentary by Spurlock with Eric Schlosser's book.  They both cover much of the same ground.  Spurlock is the one who followed the McD's diet for a month.  Schlosser's book is much more in-depth.  Spurlock's movie is kind of funny...but hits the point.  Schlosser's book is not funny...and really hammers home a number of points.  What shocked me were the similarities between parts of Schlosser's book and "The Jungle" by Upton Sinclair.  

I recommend both the book by Schlosser and the documentary by Spurlock.  Robbins' book is also good...though I'm not advocating anybody become a vegan.  Sinclair ought not be skipped, either.




Regards,


Steve


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## Feisty Mouse (Sep 25, 2004)

After HHJH recommended this book I read it - and could scarcely put it down.  It was very well-written and engrossing.  Schlosser ties together so many cultural aspects that are seemingly disparate - like agribuisness and union-busting, to obesity, to the rise of hostage-takings and murders at fast food chains (often by former employees), to the creation of unskilled labor jobs where people are discarded easily and given no benefits.

And, for those creeped out by it but not wanting to go vegan (although I recommend a vegetarian diet, it's very good for you), please if you can find a local farm, or a store which sells locally-raised and butchered meat.  I think you'll have a much better chance at healthy (and hormone and antibiotic free) meat then.


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## shesulsa (Sep 25, 2004)

A-greed!  My in-laws raise cattle for their beef and they feed on organic, locally-grown grains and mow what lawn their owners can provide for them.  My stomach never complains after eating that beef, though I always get indigestion after commercially-raised beef.  It has been studied and proven, I think, though I do not have the reference right now, that the fats and proteins in naturally-raised / free-range cattle break down easier and are more easily assimilated by humans than commercially farmed beef and that cholesterol levels are lower in humans who consume organic beef.

 I'll try to find the statistics on that study, but my priorities are elsewhere right now and can't promise how soon I'll post them.  If anybody else has heard of this and has a link to the study, please feel free to post.

 Tastes better, too.  Same with chicken and turkey.


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## Makalakumu (Sep 25, 2004)

When I was a boy, my parents and my grandparents taught me how to hunt, fish and garden.  The old skills that people used before the depression have always been very important in my family.  They proved invaluable when my father got sick.  For years, we survived off of the food we obtained with our own hands and we ate very little processed food.  

I remember going out with my bow before sunrise and taking a deer by breakfast.  My mother would come home to the animal hanging in the garage as I was busily working at butchering.  My grandfather's method is very simple and I had seen him and helped him do it at our annual family pig roast many a time.  

The bottom line is that we always had fresh food and everyone in my family was very healthy.  

When I moved away to go to college, my brothers stopped gardening and hunting.  They started working for fast food places and buying food at the grocery store instead of working for it.  They plumped out like the rest of Fast Food America and they were sick more often.  

When my two of my brothers started the garden and began to fill the freezer again, the trend reversed itself.  

One of the most interesting things I found regarding this book is the synchronicity it has had with my own life.  

upnorthkyosa


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## shesulsa (Sep 26, 2004)

Kewl, Kyo Sa Nim.  This is an earnest question:  Have you picked up a copy of "Kill It and Grill It" by Ted Nugent?  He espouses much of what you speak - consuming wild game and frozen, home-grown foods is definitely healthier.  I doubt many of us have the real estate to grow our own, though.


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## MisterMike (Sep 26, 2004)

Pretty soon the idea if hunting for food wil be gone, what, with the outbreaks of brain wasting disease spreading rampid through the deer poulations in Colorado, Utah, etc...


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## Makalakumu (Sep 26, 2004)

MisterMike said:
			
		

> Pretty soon the idea if hunting for food wil be gone, what, with the outbreaks of brain wasting disease spreading rampid through the deer poulations in Colorado, Utah, etc...



There is a lot more to eat out there then deer and I think that people would surprise at how much room a garden takes up.  When I lived in apartment in college, instead of potted plants, I grew food.

I share your worry though.  Cronic Wasting Disease is a direct response to the over population deer in our country.  We have removed the predators and the states DNRs have managed the numbers to bring in huge revenues in the terms of hunting licenses.  Managing predators would help and so would increasing the number of deer tags.  

When I was a boy, I remember going out deer hunting and not seeing single thing for days.  Now, you can't walk through the woods without seeing deer.  Hell, I could shoot a few in my front yard every night.  I turned on the light to see what the racket was one night, and I spooked a 10 point buck.  I live in the middle of the city by the way.

Fortunately, CWD has been around for 20 years in some areas.  We have had some time to study it and have had some time to learn how to deal with it.  The professional butchers have tests that they can perform on the animals grey matter.  Avid hunters can do these tests also.  If the meat is bad, it can be discarded and even if the meat is bad, if you butcher the deer properly, you don't have to worry about it.  

upnorthkyosa


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## Makalakumu (Sep 26, 2004)

shesulsa said:
			
		

> Kewl, Kyo Sa Nim.  This is an earnest question:  Have you picked up a copy of "Kill It and Grill It" by Ted Nugent?  He espouses much of what you speak - consuming wild game and frozen, home-grown foods is definitely healthier.  I doubt many of us have the real estate to grow our own, though.



I read portions of the book at BnN.  There are some good recipes in it.  

There can be a lot of difficulties in attempting to take responsibility for growing your own food.  Interest, will, space and time are all valid concerns.  I think that when my kids get older, I will have a little more time to implement the things that I know how to do.  At this moment in my life, I only have time to hunt and fish a little every now and then.  Our garden is small and homey, not like the huge plot my parents and grandparents tended.  

Consequently, my family shops at a whole food coop.  They buy from local organic farmers.  They obtain organic free range beef, buffallo, chicken, pork, and lamb.  The price difference is miniscule and by shopping there, we have almost cut our consumption of junk food to nil.  

I will pass this knowledge on to my children though.  It's fun for one thing.  Fishing, for instance, is something I derive great pleasure from.  If I can make it out once a week, that is great.  Right now duck hunting season opened.  My 12 gauge is primed and ready for tonight.  Right now, our two year old loves to pull weeds in the garden and she loves to sit on the dock with her daddy and catch sunfish.

In the end, for me, balancing ducks, 26 inch plus steelhead, 28 inch browns, and two year olds can be problematic...

Fun too.

upnorthkyosa


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## Spud (Sep 27, 2004)

I started it, but became side-tracked. The whole evolution of fast food associated with California car culture leading to succesful drive-in and drive through restaraunts was fascinating. 

 I forgot about Reefer Madness - I just added that to my reading list as well.


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## Spud (Sep 27, 2004)

Supersize me had a great scene where schoolkids were asked to identify various people: George Washington, George Bush, Christ, Martin Luther King, etc. No luck, but they nailed Ronald McDonald and Wendy every time. 

 Another thing I've found disturbing is the connection between fast food and the poor. I can't articulate her anecdotes well, but my girlfriend used to work case managment with medicaid clients. They had horrible eating habits and had diet related health issues, but there were few alternatives to a $3.25 burger & fry meal. Yes, I know that many of us could put together a healthy meal for that price. I've also heard of food banks that can't give away whole grain bread as everyone wants white balloon bread.

 I still find myself drawn to Mickey D's after a hard workout, even though I know that fruit and some lowfat cottage cheese would serve me better. The golden arches are just there on my way home. 

 As other's have suggested, I really need to get a chest freezer and buy my meat locally. The further we're removed from our food supply the more we take for granted.


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