# Judge approves ACLU lawsuit against ATF



## KenpoTex (Oct 8, 2008)

saw this on another forum and thought it was interesting...(emphasis added)


> ACLU Director of Communications Brandon Hensler says the American Civil Liberties Union of Florida received an early victory today when Senior Federal Judge Lacey A. Collier denied the ATFs motions for summary judgment in Kilpatrick v. U.S.
> 
> Kilpatrick was driving her blue van in Pensacola on April 19, 2004, with the slogans Remember the Children of Waco and Boo ATF written on some of the windows *when she was pulled over by police for questioning by the ATF*.
> The ACLU argues in the lawsuit that her First Amendment Rights to Free Speech and her Fourth Amendment right to be free from unreasonable search and seizure were violated when *officers detained her for an hour, searched her car without consent, and ordered her to remove the writing on the side of her van.*
> http://www.srpressgazette.com/news/aclu_5047___article.html/atf_judge.html


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## Bob Hubbard (Oct 8, 2008)

Interesting reading.


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## jarrod (Oct 8, 2008)

the ACLU gets a lot of flack, but i'm sure glad they're there.

jf


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## Grenadier (Oct 8, 2008)

Hmm, two unwholesome organizations duking it out.  I like it!


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## jarrod (Oct 8, 2008)

Grenadier said:


> Hmm, two unwholesome organizations duking it out. I like it!


 
contrary to popular belief, the ACLU stands up for most every civil injustice regardless of political alignment.  they're the gadfly of the U.S.  they're just not as popular as socrates because they haven't been martyred yet, and they're mostly lawyers.

jf


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## Grenadier (Oct 8, 2008)

jarrod said:


> contrary to popular belief, the ACLU stands up for most every civil injustice regardless of political alignment.  they're the gadfly of the U.S.  they're just not as popular as socrates because they haven't been martyred yet, and they're mostly lawyers.
> 
> jf



I used to strongly support the ACLU, but gave up when they rabidly attacked an organization whose motto is "Do a good turn daily," and gladly helped an organization whose motto was "Eight is too late."


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## Deaf Smith (Oct 8, 2008)

Go get'em ACLU. 

I only wish the ACLU had more conservitives in it. What would happen if all the NRA members in the U.S. simply joined the ACLU and sort of took over.... I mean, if you can't lose 'em, use 'em!

Just a thought.

Deaf


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## UpeoWaMacho (Oct 9, 2008)

Well, there's the fact that they're anti-gun, or at least will not take up that particular right......I'd guess that's why the NRA won't get near 'em.


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## jarrod (Oct 9, 2008)

from the aclu website:

"The ACLU disagrees with the Supreme Court's conclusion about the nature of the right protected by the Second Amendment. We do not, however, take a position on gun control itself. In our view, neither the possession of guns nor the regulation of guns raises a civil liberties issue."

that is a pretty soft stance on the issue.  i wonder what they think the 2nd amendment is for since we don't have any state militias.

i wonder if the members of state militias during our nation's early years kept their guns at home where they could access them quickly, or if they were locked in an armoury with trigger locks 

jf


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## sgtmac_46 (Oct 10, 2008)

jarrod said:


> the ACLU gets a lot of flack, but i'm sure glad they're there.
> 
> jf


 I'm sometimes glad they are there.......I would be far more glad they were there if they wouldn't selectively defend the Bill of Rights, but instead would defend it WHOLE SALE!

If they were a true civil liberties organization they would have been defending the 2nd Amendment this whole time!

The root of the problem with the ACLU is that they are a collectivist organization, and view 'liberties' through that prism......and while I sometimes find myself sharing a side with the ACLU on a particular issue, I also realize they have an entirely different agenda.

But on this one they are spot on and I hope they DEVASTATE the ATF!


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## jarrod (Oct 10, 2008)

fortunately we have the NRA to stand up for the 2nd amendment.  

i would love to see the ATF shut down.

jf


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## sgtmac_46 (Oct 11, 2008)

jarrod said:


> fortunately we have the NRA to stand up for the 2nd amendment.
> 
> i would love to see the ATF shut down.
> 
> jf


 Expect to see them given MORE POWER if Obama wins, with a Democrat controlled anti-gun congress.


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## jarrod (Oct 11, 2008)

sgtmac_46 said:


> Expect to see them given MORE POWER if Obama wins, with a Democrat controlled anti-gun congress.


 
didn't waco happen under daddy bush's administration?

one side might empower them by tightening gun laws; the other might empower them in interest of "national security".  it's six of one, half a dozen of the other.

jf


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## Andy Moynihan (Oct 11, 2008)

jarrod said:


> didn't waco happen under daddy bush's administration?


 
Nope.



> one side might empower them by tightening gun laws; the other might empower them in interest of "national security". it's six of one, half a dozen of the other.
> 
> jf


 

Yep.


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## jarrod (Oct 11, 2008)

Andy Moynihan said:


> Nope.


 

my mistake. 

jf


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## sgtmac_46 (Oct 12, 2008)

jarrod said:


> didn't waco happen under daddy bush's administration?
> 
> one side might empower them by tightening gun laws; the other might empower them in interest of "national security".  it's six of one, half a dozen of the other.
> 
> jf


 Waco was Bill Clinton/Janet Reno.......you're thinking of Ruby Ridge.

Look for Obama to empower them in the interest of BOTH!  Remember that Clinton was VERY concerned about 'the Militia threat' and going after 'Domestic Enemies'.


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## UpeoWaMacho (Oct 13, 2008)

sgtmac_46 said:


> Waco was Bill Clinton/Janet Reno.......you're thinking of Ruby Ridge.
> 
> Look for Obama to empower them in the interest of BOTH!  Remember that Clinton was VERY concerned about 'the Militia threat' and going after 'Domestic Enemies'.



I don't know if it would be in the *interest* of both, but those would be the excuses he'd use in order to continue to disarm his constituents.


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## gixxershane (Oct 15, 2008)

sgtmac_46 said:


> Waco was Bill Clinton/Janet Reno.......you're thinking of Ruby Ridge.
> 
> Look for Obama to empower them in the interest of BOTH! Remember that Clinton was VERY concerned about 'the Militia threat' and going after 'Domestic Enemies'.


 thats funny you say that, seeings how he was not so willing to go after forigen enimies of our country!

although his administration and the congress signed a bill to invade Iraq befor he left office..  a little food for thought


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## chinto (Oct 16, 2008)

hmm from the initial information at least sounds like the cops and the ATF personnel involved should be doing at least 5 years hard time for  abuse of authority under title 18 US CODE. not to mention violation of the persons civil rights and constitutional rights.

( and this from some one who has very little use, if any.. for the ACLU!!)


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## sgtmac_46 (Oct 20, 2008)

gixxershane said:


> thats funny you say that, seeings how he was not so willing to go after forigen enimies of our country!
> 
> although his administration and the congress signed a bill to invade Iraq befor he left office..  a little food for thought



Well, there are certain political leanings that consider the enemy as being entirely within......Bill Clinton's administration being a prime example of that.


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