# The Silent Treatment as a punishment for kids?



## girlbug2 (Jun 11, 2011)

One of the young students wrote an essay on responsibility as a part of her junior black belt test. I judge her to be about 12 years old. In the essay, she mentioned an incident when she had forgottent to bring her belt to training. She reports that her dad lectured her "all day" about it, and the next day she received the silent treatment from her family as a punishment.

My internal reaction when I read that is that it was too harsh, even a cruel form of punishment for a kid. But then, I have no problem with spanking when it's needed and a LOT of people think that's abuse even while it is explicitly legal and a time-honored discipline. So, I am trying not to judge. The dad is a student at the adult classes and once in a while we train together, although I do not know him well. He is an upstanding citizen as far as I am aware.

So what do you think about the Silent Treatment for kids?


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## Blade96 (Jun 11, 2011)

This is what I think.

http://www.kensavage.com/archives/silent-treatment/

I grew up on the silent treatment. My parents used it on me, and regularly still use it on each other. I say it is ineffective and harmful.

especially for such a little thing as forgetting a belt in karate class? Wtf?


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## granfire (Jun 11, 2011)

I guess it depends on the person you use it on.
It can be very effective. 
(I'd say since the kid mentioned in in her essay, it stuck with her)
Personally I prefer the air clearing storm over lingering grudges.


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## Flea (Jun 11, 2011)

I grew up on the silent treatment as well, mostly watching my parents apply it to each other.  Growing up with that model for a "functional" relationship really screwed me up.

Here's another take on it, from a sociology perspective:

_Shunning is often used as a pejorative term to describe any organizationally mandated disassociation, and has acquired a connotation of abuse and relational aggression. This is due to the sometimes extreme damage caused by its disruption to normal relationships between individuals, such as friendships and family relations. Disruption of established relationships certainly causes pain, which is at least an unintended consequence of the practices described here, though it may also in many cases be an intended, coercive consequence. This pain, especially when seen as unjustly inflicted, can have secondary general psychological effects on self-worth and self-confidence, trust and trustworthiness, and can, as with other types of trauma, impair psychological function.
Shunning often involves implicit or explicit shame for a member who commits acts seen as wrong by the group or its leadership. Such shame may not be psychologically damaging if the membership is voluntary and the rules of behavior were clear before the person joined. However, if the rules are arbitrary, if the group membership is seen as essential for personal security, safety, or health, or if the application of the rules is inconsistent, such shame can be highly destructive. This can be especially damaging if perceptions are attacked or controlled, or various tools of psychological pressure applied. Extremes of this cross over the line into psychological torture and can be permanently scarring.
A key detrimental effect of some of the practices associated with shunning relate to their effect on relationships, especially family relationships. At its extremes, the practices may destroy marriages, break up families, and separate children and their parents. The effect of shunning can be very dramatic or even devastating on the shunned,  as it can damage or destroy the shunned member's closest familial, spousal, social, emotional, and economic bonds. _

I think the silent treatment, whether applied individually or institutionally, is a form of abuse.  Children especially aren't equipped to handle it.  I think people applying it should be keel-hauled.


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## jks9199 (Jun 11, 2011)

Shunning can be a very powerful punishment.  We're social animals, and to deny someone society is one of the worst things that can be done.  That's why solitary confinement in the prison is so harsh.

For a strictly limited time, it might be a reasonable punishment.  But I'd be really concerned if it was done often.  I'd like to hear from some child psychologists about this.


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## yorkshirelad (Jun 12, 2011)

I got slapped every now and then, the wooden spoon, shouted at, and when I got too old for slapping (I would just smile when Mum slapped me in the face), I got the broom handle. The house was chaotic most of the time. I just wish I had recieved the silent treatment once in a while. I would've loved it!


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## MA-Caver (Jun 12, 2011)

yorkshirelad said:


> I got slapped every now and then, the wooden spoon, shouted at, and when I got too old for slapping (I would just smile when Mum slapped me in the face), I got the broom handle. The house was chaotic most of the time. I just wish I had received the silent treatment once in a while. I would've loved it!



Aye lad so do I... I gotten spanked a few times for when I really screwed up but other than that... hours of long talks that (today) I see were nothing but baggage laden guilt trips. M'dad just doesn't know when to shut it. So the silent treatment would've been bliss. 

Took me a long time to shed the baggage... had to move to the other side of the country and disassociate from the family for a while to do so. Now I'm living back with the folks and things haven't changed for them. 

I don't think however the silent treatment for kids is a good way to go. Depending upon the infraction, mistake, oops... punishment should be according. Forgetting her belt is not a bad thing... something that kids DO and if it were not for parents (busy as they are) they'd forget them all the time. Repetitive teaching will help child remember and develop memory skills so that they will not forget when they are adults to cross those t's and dot the i's.


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## girlbug2 (Jun 12, 2011)

Wow blade96, that link is very convicting. I knew that there was something wrong with the Silent Treatment, but I had no idea.  Thanks for sharing that.


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## girlbug2 (Jun 12, 2011)

I feel a lot of concern for this girl. From my limited knowledge I have no way of knowing how often she and her sibs have had the Silent Treatment punishment, but the article suggests it's likely a pattern if it has been used at all.

I wish I knew the dad well enough to bring this up, but like most unasked-for advice it probably wouldn't do much good if I did. It sure sucks to be in a position to know something is wrong but unable to do anything about it.


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## seasoned (Jun 12, 2011)

Not a useful tool, to cut off communication. It will teach negative reactions in the future.


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## yorkshirelad (Jun 12, 2011)

seasoned said:


> Not a useful tool, to cut off communication. It will teach negative reactions in the future.


Yes, probably so. Any punishment for forgetting a belt is too harsh as far as I'm concerned. It's not a consious act of rebellion or misbehaviour on the part of the child. If the parent is concerned, surely they should check the child's bag before training. But then again, I'm a scatter brain myself, so I empathize with the kid.

I had a friend who pushed his puppy's nose in it's poo everyy time it went to the toilet on the floor. I told him to stop doing it. He wasn't a bad guy, he just didn't realize that rewards for good behaviour work far better than punishment for negative behaviour and rewards create trust. I used to tell him that the dog does not know why it's having it's face pushed in it's poo. The dog probably just thought he was an a-hole.

I think it's the same way with kids. Instead of punishing this girl, the father could use his imagination to teach the girl how not to forget her belt. Maybe even make it a game. For instance, he could tell her that, he was going to keep tabs on her belt, and if she didn't forget it for, let's say, a month, he would take her to the movie theatre.

I find it a little bizarre that the girl would be sent to Coventry for such a minor offense. This family obviously have problems!


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## Blade96 (Jun 12, 2011)

Thats why is one of the reasons why many amish children stay amish and most of them of the wbc stayed in the westboro baptist church. Being shunned silent treatment and the threat of losing literally everything is very powerful.


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## Flea (Jun 12, 2011)

On a worthwhile tangent, does a MA instructor qualify as a state mandated reporter?  For abuse issues, that is.  I think the professions falling under that category vary.


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## jks9199 (Jun 12, 2011)

Flea said:


> On a worthwhile tangent, does a MA instructor qualify as a state mandated reporter?  For abuse issues, that is.  I think the professions falling under that category vary.


Probably not, unless the program is really run as a daycare, with appropriate licensing.  But most manage to duck around that -- even when the distinction is purely semantic.


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## yorkshirelad (Jun 12, 2011)

granfire said:


> Personally I prefer the air clearing storm over lingering grudges.


 
I know!!


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## Sensei Payne (Jun 13, 2011)

Being that I am not a parent...IDK if my opinion matters...but I was a child once...so i will throw my hat in the ring.

I feel that once a child understands what they did was wrong and they are properly corrected on the issue, then it should just be a "done" issue.

Shunning, silent treatment, etc, I feel teaches children how to hold grudges and disconnect from others who happen to make a mistake or do something they disagree with later in life.  That is no way to develop strong realaionships and friendships.


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