# Which is Faster?



## dancingalone (Mar 5, 2010)

An inside to outside block or an outside to inside block?  Is this more of a personal preference than any real appreciable difference in mechanical efficiency?  Discuss.

I had a short discussion with another martial arts friend about it and he indicated that the CMA style he studied preferred the inside to outside motion as the starting place for most motions.


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## Omar B (Mar 5, 2010)

I prefer the inside-outside block.  If you are in proper position then your lead hand should be at just about the perfect spot to do the block without much adjusting.  Plus it deflect the blow towards the outside of the body and opposed to the outside-inside that may send a strike a bit too close to the torso.


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## Grenadier (Mar 5, 2010)

If done with good mechanics, the speed difference between the respective blocks should be minimal, especially at the advanced level.  At the advanced level, it's more about body movement, shifting, taisabaki, and using the body to position the block, rather than to just fling the arm out.


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## jks9199 (Mar 5, 2010)

What position are you starting in?  If you're using your left hand to block, and it's outside your body, it's going to be faster to bring it inside as the block, rather than bringing it in and then back out to block...  If your hands are close to the center, outside will be faster.

Which block will serve you better?  An inside block can be very very powerful -- but do you need that power?  Will it position you properly for a follow-up?

Each block serves particular purposes; use the one that's appropriate to your position, the attack, and any follow-up you want to use.


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## dancingalone (Mar 5, 2010)

Grenadier said:


> If done with good mechanics, the speed difference between the respective blocks should be minimal, especially at the advanced level.  At the advanced level, it's more about body movement, shifting, taisabaki, and using the body to position the block, rather than to just fling the arm out.



Granted.  Actually just flinging your arm out is a recipe for failure at any level, particularly if the attacker has a weapon.

Unless a kinesiologist jumps in and disagrees, I myself am inclined to believe the inside to outside block is a more efficient motion for the human body.  I myself prefer to time blocks so they occur as quickly as possible, during the "out" motion rather than on the decline of the curve.  In that scenario, I believe I am "stronger" as the initial out motion is still closer relative to my core.  (Obviously all strikes and blocks should be executed only when you're centered and grounded.)


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## Xue Sheng (Mar 5, 2010)

Which is Faster? :hmm: ........ :idea:  A Cheetah 

Wouldn't the use of either block and the speed of said block have more to do with the attack that was coming at you? The speed of either would be highly dependant on the attack you were blocking.

As for CMA we have a plethora of blocks and some of those are both block and attack all rolled up into one nice little painful response to an attack :EG:.


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## dancingalone (Mar 5, 2010)

> What position are you starting in? If you're using your left hand to block, and it's outside your body, it's going to be faster to bring it inside as the block, rather than bringing it in and then back out to block... If your hands are close to the center, outside will be faster.



Good point.  Let's assume you're in as neutral a position as could possibly exist.  Which then?


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## dancingalone (Mar 5, 2010)

Xue Sheng said:


> Wouldn't the use of either block and the speed of said block have more to do with the attack that was coming at you? The speed of either would be highly dependant on the attack you were blocking.



Indeed you are right.  Humor me though.  Which is faster assuming you're starting from a neutral hands guard against a straight punch where there would not be a predisposition to one way or another?


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## Omar B (Mar 5, 2010)

I would also like to add to my previous post that the inside-outside block is not only in my opinion the better block (see my post above).  But if the attacker is wielding a weapon and you are going to block a strike it's better for contact to be made with the outside of the arm (as in the inside-outside) rather than the inside of the arm with all those major veins.


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## Xue Sheng (Mar 5, 2010)

dancingalone said:


> Indeed you are right. Humor me though. Which is faster assuming you're starting from a neutral hands guard against a straight punch where there would not be a predisposition to one way or another?


 
Based on my CMA background, likely neither since I would likely not be in a neutral hand guard.

If I went with Taiji it would be more of a grab, redirect with Qinna and if I were to go with Xingyiquan it would be a block/attack thing that may resemble one of the 5 elements but likely not Hengquan or Paoquan 

But this is all purely speculation based on a what if scenario I may just back up and get out of range too. 

However if I think back to my TKD days I believe I preferred the outside block, but then Im old and my memory aint what it use to be


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## wushuguy (Mar 5, 2010)

both blocks are fast and equally solid, but as to when to use which one... it would depend. If one is in a neutral position, meaning that the lead arm is covering the center line, then if the strike is coming from the outside, the "inside to outside" block is more natural. if it is coming from the inside, it would look like the "outside to inside" block.

For example if one was in a left leg forward fighting stance, with the left arm up, and the opponent is in a similar stance, the opponent comes in with a right cross, the defender should do an "inside to outside" block, so as not to let the attacker's arm cross the defender's body in case that the attacker's speed lets the arm pass close. If one did the "outside to inside" block, trying to hook around the punch, it is possible to guide the punch into your face. I've seen it happen and also set people up to block into themselves (it works great in sparring someone who doesn't know the principles of when to use which block).


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## punisher73 (Mar 5, 2010)

Think about an untrained person when something comes at their face, how do they respond?  That is faster.  Instinctively, people usually will swat/reach with the hand closest to the object.  Your body will take the quickest path to get there without you needing to help it.  When we try to structure blocks, we tend to get in nature's way sometimes and do things that are counter intuitive.  The proper block should be just an extension of a natural motion, otherwise in a high stress surprise situation you aren't going to do it.

Everything else depends on how the muscles are primed prior to action.  The outside to inward block has the advantage that the pectoral muscles are very large and part of their job is to bring the arms together (think dumbbell flyes).  But, again it depends on the body as a whole and how you are setting it up.


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## kaizasosei (Mar 5, 2010)

Depends on the attack and the position of one's arm.  Inside to outside is probably a bit faster, but the out to in is safer.


j


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## wushuguy (Mar 5, 2010)

Yeah, I teach beginning students that their natural reactions are about right, with a little tweaking a cringe or flinch can be done effectively to block or deflect an attack, and the proper cringe also sets up for a good response to the attack.

like when something is coming at our face really fast, the usual reaction is  to throw the hands up and duck the head down, so we just build on that natural motion. ;-)




punisher73 said:


> Think about an untrained person when something comes at their face, how do they respond?  That is faster.  Instinctively, people usually will swat/reach with the hand closest to the object.  Your body will take the quickest path to get there without you needing to help it.  When we try to structure blocks, we tend to get in nature's way sometimes and do things that are counter intuitive.  The proper block should be just an extension of a natural motion, otherwise in a high stress surprise situation you aren't going to do it.
> 
> Everything else depends on how the muscles are primed prior to action.  The outside to inward block has the advantage that the pectoral muscles are very large and part of their job is to bring the arms together (think dumbbell flyes).  But, again it depends on the body as a whole and how you are setting it up.


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## Blade96 (Mar 5, 2010)

I dont know their names really english anymore due to the fact that we never speak english terms at the dojo but I'd say I can do both fast but I think my chudan uchi uke is a slight bit the faster block for me personally


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## K-man (Mar 5, 2010)

Grenadier said:


> If done with good mechanics, the speed difference between the respective blocks should be minimal, especially at the advanced level.  At the advanced level, it's more about body movement, shifting, taisabaki, and using the body to position the block, rather than to just fling the arm out.


And I would add that the result is more a deflection that positions you to deliver a fast effective retaliatory  strike. To 'block' by itself just allows the attacker to launch the next attack. In this scenario the body would move off the line, or take the attacker off his line, and the arm move would be instinctive. Either arm could be used and the result could be either inside out or outside in depending on which arm was used to deflect.


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## Touch Of Death (Mar 5, 2010)

dancingalone said:


> An inside to outside block or an outside to inside block? Is this more of a personal preference than any real appreciable difference in mechanical efficiency? Discuss.
> 
> I had a short discussion with another martial arts friend about it and he indicated that the CMA style he studied preferred the inside to outside motion as the starting place for most motions.


Outside to inside is your strongest and therefore fastest motion, from a horse, but inside to outside happens naturally in a step-through.
Sean


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## jks9199 (Mar 5, 2010)

dancingalone said:


> Good point. Let's assume you're in as neutral a position as could possibly exist. Which then?


You're asking the wrong question.

Neither block is "faster." Either block may be more effective and appropriate, depending on the incoming attack (do you want to be outside or inside the attack), which arm you're choosing to block with (front or back, left or right?), and what you want to do afterwards. 

Say you throw a left jab at me. I may step out to my right, blocking with an outward motion, and counter-strike. Or, I might step the same direction, but use the inward block to really knock you down and away without a counter-strike... or to set up a reversing hammer strike over your arm. Or I might use both; use my left arm in an outward block/trap and my right arm in an inward smashing block to destroy your arm... :EG:  It's not a stand-alone answer; it's all about the total process.


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## Wey (Mar 6, 2010)

punisher73 said:


> Think about an untrained person when something comes at their face, how do they respond?  That is faster.  Instinctively, people usually will swat/reach with the hand closest to the object.  Your body will take the quickest path to get there without you needing to help it.  When we try to structure blocks, we tend to get in nature's way sometimes and do things that are counter intuitive.  The proper block should be just an extension of a natural motion, otherwise in a high stress surprise situation you aren't going to do it.
> 
> Everything else depends on how the muscles are primed prior to action.  The outside to inward block has the advantage that the pectoral muscles are very large and part of their job is to bring the arms together (think dumbbell flyes).  But, again it depends on the body as a whole and how you are setting it up.



I agree. I don't think it matters so much what you call the block as long as you block the attack. Block + move body = safe

But for argument's sake, I'd say the inside-outside block is faster.


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## Touch Of Death (Mar 9, 2010)

jks9199 said:


> You're asking the wrong question.
> 
> Neither block is "faster." Either block may be more effective and appropriate, depending on the incoming attack (do you want to be outside or inside the attack), which arm you're choosing to block with (front or back, left or right?), and what you want to do afterwards.
> 
> Say you throw a left jab at me. I may step out to my right, blocking with an outward motion, and counter-strike. Or, I might step the same direction, but use the inward block to really knock you down and away without a counter-strike... or to set up a reversing hammer strike over your arm. Or I might use both; use my left arm in an outward block/trap and my right arm in an inward smashing block to destroy your arm... :EG: It's not a stand-alone answer; it's all about the total process.


Outside to inside is strongest and therfore faster.
Sean


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