# buying a new computer...need advice.



## Nightingale (Jan 18, 2005)

I'm going to be buying a new desktop computer this weekend, and need some
input.  I am buying a mac.  That part is not open to debate.  After catching five viruses off the school's poorly maintained network and having to rebuild the PC's hard drive five times too many, I'm sick of it.  I do know it's just a rumor that macs can't catch viruses.  I also know that there are far fewer viruses out there for mac, but they do exist.  Macs aren't immune to viruses, but they are far less likely to get them.  I will still be running antivirus software to be sure.  I'm also sick of the windows BSOD and want to go to a more stable platform and get rid of microsoft for good.  Microsoft programs are just too buggy for my taste.  I know there is less software out there for the mac, but all the software I need is available for Mac, so that's not an issue for me.

 I was originally going to get an imac, because I like the small size
(the entire computer is built into the monitor, and it's only 3" thick!
There's no tower or anything taking up space.) and portability, but the
graphics card is only 64 mb and I'm concerned that it won't run some of the
graphics intensive video games (Everquest 1 for mac requires 32 mb, and EQ2, which is my new favorite, is much more graphics intensive. they'll be
releasing it in a few months for mac, so the system requirements haven't been released yet.  I'm also probably going to be playing world of warcraft at some point.) I don't want to be cursing my computer because it won't do what I want it to. The graphics card in the imac is not upgradable.
 However, I'm not totally sure how much impact the card is really going to
have. I don't understand how computers work well enough to figure that out.

So, then I started looking at the powermac. more expensive, but much more
customizable, and I'm certain it will run the programs I want. Doesn't come
with a monitor, but I have one that will work. It's basically a silver
colored tower slightly smaller than the average dell tower. I'm trying to
weigh cost versus performance. I don't want to buy more computer than I
need, but I want to make sure it will do everything I will need it to do, and
don't mind spending the extra money to make sure. I'm going to be financing
the computer, so the payment difference between the cheapest one and the most expensive is around $20 a month, which is totally fine. I can afford any of the options, and I get a nice student discount on any kind of hardware from Apple. I just don't want to spend more than I need to, and I don't know how to judge hardware very well. I'll be doing photoshop, final cut video
editing, and graphics intensive video games, as well as the basic homework
type stuff.

Regardless of which computer I get, I'll be buying some extra RAM at
Microcenter to upgrade to at least 1 gig. Apple RAM is expensive, so it's
better to get the apple with the minimum ram, and then add more from another source. All the macs are user servicable to some extent, so adding ram is easy.

Also, all the computers have a bluetooth option for $45. I'm not sure if
it's worth it. I know on the imacs at least, it's a pain in the *** to add
later on. I don't know if I should bother with it.

I'm also not sure whether I should add a wireless card. My network here at
home is wireless, but plugging in a desktop is not a big deal, since the
router is on my desk anyway. The wireless card is easily installed later,
though, so I will probably just wait and see if I need it.

I've also got an option to add a wireless keyboard and mouse for $70. I've
never used a wireless keyboard or mouse, so I don't know if I should do this.
 I can always buy it later, but it's cheaper if it's ordered with the system.

So, these are my options, listed most powerful to least. The prices all
reflect the student discount.

PowerMac G5 dual 2.5 - $2,699.00
 Dual 2.5GHz PowerPC G5
 512MB DDR400 SDRAM (PC3200) - 2x256
 160GB Serial ATA - 7200rpm
 ATI Radeon 9600 XT w/128MB DDR SDRAM (is it worth upgrading this to a
Radeon 256 for $270?)
 56k V.92 modem
 8x SuperDrive (DVD-R/CD-RW)
 Apple Keyboard & Apple Mouse - U.S. English
 Mac OS X - U.S. English


PowerMac G5 dual 2.0 - $2,299.00
 Dual 2GHz PowerPC G5
 512MB DDR400 SDRAM (PC3200) - 2x256
 160GB Serial ATA - 7200rpm
 NVIDIA GeForce FX 5200 Ultra w/64MB DDR SDRAM (is it worth upgrading this
to a Radeon w/256 SDRAM? $316)
 56k V.92 internal modem
 8x SuperDrive (DVD-R/CD-RW)
 Apple Keyboard & Apple Mouse - U.S. English
 Mac OS X - U.S. English


20" IMAC - $1,799.00
 256MB DDR400 SDRAM - 1 DIMM
 160GB Serial ATA drive
 None - Bluetooth Module
 Keyboard and Mouse + Mac OS X - U.S. English
 20-inch widescreen LCD
 1.8GHz PowerPC G5
 SuperDrive (DVD-R/CD-RW)
 NVIDIA GeForce FX 5200 Ultra w/64MB video memory

17" IMAC - $1,489.00
 256MB DDR400 SDRAM - 1 DIMM
 160GB Serial ATA drive
 None - Bluetooth Module
 Keyboard and Mouse + Mac OS X - U.S. English
 17-inch widescreen LCD
 1.8GHz PowerPC G5
 SuperDrive (DVD-R/CD-RW)
 NVIDIA GeForce FX 5200 Ultra w/64MB video memory


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## mj_lover (Jan 18, 2005)

64 vid ram is pretty much the minimal you should run. 128 should be more then enough. From what i gather in your post, your doing video stuff as well. get as much ram as humanly possible. 256 is bare minimal, 512 should serve you well. Personally i would go with the PowerMac G5 dual 2.0.
 good luck!


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## BlackCatBonz (Jan 18, 2005)

in an article in maximum pc magazine ( i think last year) they pitted a mac G5 against an athlon and a p4. the results......abysmal. the mac beat the 2 PC's in 2 tests that were geared for mac but had a PC program as well. they said the games had frame rates more akin to a filmstrip projector than a computer.
i know mac people love mac's and try to convert the PC loving people to a more sophistocated computer.....but the fact is, unless you are constantly doing things with video rendering and similar applications and staying away from games get a mac......but PC for the most part outperforms mac.......just get a better firewall and antivirus software. for the price you spend on a mac, you could have a killer rig with an athlon64 fx-55 with 2 WD raptor sata in raid 0 and a sweet 256mb videocard.

shawn


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## Nightingale (Jan 18, 2005)

Well, first off, I don't need a new computer.  I WANT a new computer.   My current desktop system has an AMD Athlon XP3200 processor, a Radeon graphics card (I forget the numbers, but it's less than a year old), and 1.5 gig of ram. And I hate it.  I want to throw the damn thing out the window.  I want to throw windows out the window.  Get it?

I don't want a PC. I want a Mac.  I believe I said that in my initial post.  I'm very well aware of what a PC is capable of. I've built many of them.  I've networked many of them.  I don't want another one.  I'm sick of fixing PCs.  I'm sick of re-formatting PCs. I'm sick of Microsoft and their buggy programs with security holes you can drive a truck through.  I'm done with it.  


With regards to  your PC magazine article: The games would have a slow rate, because they probably needed an emulator on the mac to run them, which would certainly slow down the program and the frame rate.  Macs aren't made to run PC programs.  Macs are made to run Mac programs.  If they ran World of Warcraft on the PC and on the Mac, the Mac would probably be as good as, if not outperform, the PCs.  

I've got 2 PCs right now. I've had PCs my whole life.  My boyfriend has a PC and a Mac.  We argue over who gets to use the mac.  It's a much more stable system, and my 1.7 ghz Pentium M laptop with 1 gig of ram can't keep up with his G4 powerbook laptop with 256 megs of ram.  Programs load faster on his computer, he can run more programs at once, and I've never seen the thing crash once, and honestly, I don't think i've ever seen him reboot it.  It's two years old. My laptop is maybe 4 months old.  I have to reboot it at least every 24 hours or so or it crashes.  

I don't like windows.  I like MacOSx.  The only video games I play are Everquest 2 and I will be playing World of Warcraft.  EQ2 will be out on mac within the next year.  WoW is out now.  I've seen it. It runs beautifully on emacs and imacs, so it should be fine on a powermac too.  No frame rate problems at all.  

I think the magazine you were reading is probably biased.  after all, it's called PC MAGAZINE.

With regards to getting a better firewall...my school is stupid. the network won't let you log on through a firewall.  Firewalls aren't an option.  I've tried.  A friend of mine who is Cisco certified has tried.  It just doesn't work. 

I'm running TWO antivirus programs, AVG and Norton. I update both programs' virus definitions daily.  I don't open email I don't recognize, and run adaware and spybot regularly as well.  I do know my way around a computer, you know.  I was just looking for opinions on how the four Mac systems I listed above compare to each other, as using it in the store is different than bringing it home.


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## AnimEdge (Jan 18, 2005)

can i have your computer

I love Windows 
and my shinny 2700+Amd Athelon ohhh its so great im waitin for the Windows 64 OS to be less buggy before i fully upgrade but with your 1.5gigs and my 1.5gigs i can max out my ram 

But eather way ill take your computers if you dont want them


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## Nightingale (Jan 18, 2005)

Well, it was a pricey little beast, so I figure I'll put the components of the desktop for sale on eBay.  If I don't get fed up with the damn thing before then and throw it out the window.


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## AnimEdge (Jan 19, 2005)

Blah i cant stand Macs 
But to theres there own but ill take um even if you throw it out


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## PeachMonkey (Jan 19, 2005)

My only anti-Mac statements will be that Mac OS X is no more stable than a well-maintained Windows XP machine... but you're familiar with some of the difficulties involved in properly maintaining a Windows XP system.  Price-performance ratios also always benefit PCs... but you want a Mac, so let's talk Macs.  (Although the general stuff we're talking here applies to all hardware)

I used to sell Macs to students through the student financing stuff.

I would go with the Dual 2Ghz Power PC you list.

Video card performance is key for graphically intensive video games and working with high-resolution graphics and video files in Photoshop and Final Cut in full color depth.  If that is what you want to do, I would recommend not getting an iMac, but instead going for a Power Mac.  You need something with plenty of video RAM and a powerful video card that you can upgrade down the line.

I would also focus on getting as much system RAM as possible, even over raw CPU speed.  Rather than looking at buying RAM at Microcenter, look at mail order, such as from Crucial (www.crucial.com).

I would hold off on spending a ton of coin on upgrading the video card at first.  The basic cards with 64MB of RAM are enough for Photoshop, the money is better spent on system RAM for video editing, and If the 3D games you're playing don't give you framerates you want, you can always upgrade the video card later.

I would also hold off on the wireless keyboard and mouse, unless you've got money to burn, and you know you really hate cables.  They're cute, but unneccessary, and they go through batteries.  You can always get a cheaper non-Apple version later.

If the router is on your desk, don't buy the wireless card.  You can always buy it later.

Everything you don't have to finance now is that much stuff you're not accruing interest on.  The Apple financing is nice because they are flexible in how they offer it to students, but you end up paying a fortune in interest, so don't finance any more than you absolutely need.

Feel free to PM me or post with more questions.


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## Nightingale (Jan 19, 2005)

Actually, I'll only be financing it til summer, when I'll be working and can pay it off.    Crucial.com is a great idea. I'd forgotten about it.  

I think I've pretty much decided on the 2.0 or 2.5 powermac.   

Thanks so much!  you gave me some totally useful info!


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## Andrew Green (Jan 20, 2005)

Nightingale said:
			
		

> Well, first off, I don't need a new computer. I WANT a new computer. My current desktop system has an AMD Athlon XP3200 processor, a Radeon graphics card (I forget the numbers, but it's less than a year old), and 1.5 gig of ram. And I hate it. I want to throw the damn thing out the window. I want to throw windows out the window. Get it?


 Umm...

 Have you considered installing Linux and giving that a try before getting a new one?

 It's stable, no viruses, no adware.

 Pretty sure I saw somewhere that it can convinced to run World of Warcraft, not sure about the other.

 And considering Linux can be aquired free, being open source and all, not much to loose in trying...

 It also looks and feels a lot better then Windows IMO


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## PeachMonkey (Jan 21, 2005)

Andrew Green said:
			
		

> Umm...
> 
> Have you considered installing Linux and giving that a try before getting a new one?
> 
> It's stable, no viruses, no adware.


 I'm not sure why we think someone who isn't interested in the headaches of keeping Windows virus and adware free would want the struggles of learning to administer a Linux machine, including the headaches involved with keeping it properly secured and patched.


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## Andrew Green (Jan 21, 2005)

Most "mainstream" linux distributions are very easy to maintain.  Basically you click on "update" enter your password and it takes care of the rest.

 As for keeping it secure... Don't run as root.  One of the benefits of Linux is once it is up and running it is very difficult to mess up without an administrator password being entered first.


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## PeachMonkey (Jan 21, 2005)

The primary advanges of running Linux are for power users who are interested in digging around in the innards, running lots of open-source software, and exploiting the power of having full access to a UNIX-based OS.

 These all contradict the ease-of-use issue, which is really where Nightingale is going with a Mac.  Frankly, I think Mac OS X is a no-brainer, and completely eliminated my interest in the Linux and Free/NetBSD variants... it's a UNIX that actually has software I want to run.


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## Andrew Green (Jan 21, 2005)

No, not neccessarily.

 As far as ease of use goes it is as easy as Windows, more secure, and without the problems.  You CAN dig deeper if you like.

 A lot of Open Source is good, really good.  Firefox being an example everyone has probably heard of, OpenOffice is looking really good lately too, and with version 2.0 on the way it will look a whole lot better...

 Now, given that a free, stable OS is available I think it would be a good plan to give it a try before shelling out for a whole new system.

 Installation definately goes better then Windows.  You stick the disk in, boot up and make some program selections (no different then installing windows really...) and it autodetects all you hardware sets you up with Office, internet, Mail / scheduling program, and just about everything you want in one install.

 I call that pretty easy.  Unless of course you go with Gentoo or something, but the mainstream / user friendly ones are not complicated.  Replacing windows with them is rather simple.  Even setting up a dual boot to leave windows as an option for windows only apps is usually really easy and done for you by the installer.


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## BlueDragon1981 (Feb 2, 2005)

I think that what you need is to get into linux. Only problem is compatibility with games. You can get programs that allow you to run microsoft format games. As for the MAC they run well usually with Graphics. Sometimes better than the i386 (which is simply your common desktop pc.)

Linux is a great way to go and its either free or low cost and you can use your current system. If you want something small look at the new Mini Macs and see what they offer you. If your going to get a computer get the best RAM and Video Ram. Do NOT get one that shares RAM between regular RAM and Video RAM. They are usually worthless and bog down a lot.

The best way to go is way to expensive and hard to configure. A dual processor computer with one processor handling the OS and the other handling the program (game, graphics program). These are rare and you probably would have to get it specially made...and configured.

MAC G5 Dual 2.0 is what I would go with if it is the best....you will still run into problems with MAC....don't think it is a cure all to windows.

Blue


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## Nightingale (Feb 2, 2005)

Well, I ended up getting the iMac 1.8.

It runs world of warcraft amazingly fast, no lag whatsoever.  Works great with photoshop and print shop and does everything I want with no problems at all.

When I go to school and have to use my laptop (brand new Toshiba, geforce, pentium M, 1.5 gig ram...and, of course, windows xp), I've found myself getting so frustrated..."you mean I have to use WINDOWS???"  All the stuff I hated about windows is all the more irritating after discovering what wonderful solutions mac has come up with to deal with the issues.

I'm saving up for an iBook.


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## digitalronin (Feb 2, 2005)

Nightingale said:
			
		

> Well, I ended up getting the iMac 1.8.
> 
> It runs world of warcraft amazingly fast, no lag whatsoever. Works great with photoshop and print shop and does everything I want with no problems at all.
> 
> ...


 can i borrow the toshiba i promise to return it


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## Cryozombie (Feb 2, 2005)

Mac.

 Mac.

 OH GOD.

 OH GOD NO!

 NO! DEAR LORD NO!

 Ahem.

 Enjoy your new boat anchor. (Er, Computer)

 *These Opinions do not neccessarily reflect the opinions of the masses, only the ones who matter. Namley me. Hehe.


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