# School Bans "Tag"



## Andrew Green (Oct 18, 2006)

Officials at an elementary school south of Boston have banned kids from playing tag, touch football and any other unsupervised chase game during recess for fear they'll get hurt and hold the school liable.

Recess is "a time when accidents can happen," said Willett Elementary School Principal Gaylene Heppe, who approved the ban.

While there is no districtwide ban on contact sports during recess, local rules have been cropping up. Several school administrators around Attleboro, a city of about 45,000 residents, took aim at dodgeball a few years ago, saying it was exclusionary and dangerous

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/10/18/no.tag.ap/index.html


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## terryl965 (Oct 18, 2006)

What is next evryone should only walk during an sporting event


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## Brian R. VanCise (Oct 18, 2006)

Andrew Green said:


> Officials at an elementary school south of Boston have banned kids from playing tag, touch football and any other unsupervised chase game during recess for fear they'll get hurt and hold the school liable.
> 
> Recess is "a time when accidents can happen," said Willett Elementary School Principal Gaylene Heppe, who approved the ban.
> 
> ...


 
That is just really sad.  My kids love to play tag, touch football, etc.


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## exile (Oct 18, 2006)

terryl965 said:


> What is next evryone should only walk during an sporting event



Why Terry---haven't you forgotten that people who walk are much more likely to sprain their ankles than people who sit still? If the school were really serious about preventing accidents, they'd have the kids sit at their desks all recess...

...but wait! That still leaves the problem that in order to get to school, the kids have to go out their front door, and who knows _what_ will happen then?? A really responsible school district would forbid kids to go to school---accidents do happen on the way there and back...

Someone, please tell me that the original news item at the start of this thread was a hoax... someone? Anyone?


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## crushing (Oct 18, 2006)

Infrickincredible!!   Such is a litigious society.

It's like Fahrenheit 451, but instead of books and firemen (firepersons), it's games and lawyers.


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## Andrew Green (Oct 18, 2006)

No hoax... sadly...

Give it another 20 years and kids will go to school in giant protective bubbles the way things are going.

Prevent short term booboo's at the expense of overweight, insecure fragile adults that will dominate the country in 15-20 years.


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## Flying Crane (Oct 18, 2006)

Ah yes, children are so very fragile.  A rapid movement of air is likely to damage them irreparably.  If only we could keep them in airtight containers...


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## CoryKS (Oct 18, 2006)

Meanwhile, school officials continue to seek ways to reduce childhood obesity.  Has anyone's head ever actually exploded from cognitive dissonance?


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## SFC JeffJ (Oct 18, 2006)

CoryKS said:


> Meanwhile, school officials continue to seek ways to reduce childhood obesity.  Has anyone's head ever actually exploded from cognitive dissonance?


Damn, ya beat me too it!

A lot of studies have also shown play unstructured by adults is very important to a child's development.

Jeff


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## exile (Oct 18, 2006)

There's just no way to parody something like this... it's like a `news' story out of _The Onion_, except it's real. Nothing you can say can top the facts themselves...


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## SFC JeffJ (Oct 18, 2006)

exile said:


> There's just no way to parody something like this... it's like a `news' story out of _The Onion_, except it's real. Nothing you can say can top the facts themselves...


Yeah, it was just reported on the local news here as well.


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## Makalakumu (Oct 18, 2006)

Lawsuits.  This is what it comes down to.  We need to reform our system or we are going to lose everything that we hold dear.  Martial arts won't be immune to this.  Already, insurance companies are putting limits on contact and requiring certain gear.

What do we do?


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## zDom (Oct 18, 2006)

upnorthkyosa said:


> Lawsuits.  This is what it comes down to.  We need to reform our system or we are going to lose everything that we hold dear.  Martial arts won't be immune to this.  Already, insurance companies are putting limits on contact and requiring certain gear.
> 
> What do we do?



Beat up a lawyer. Er.. but then they would sue us.. so um...

ahhhh....

I got nuthin'. Sorry. :shrug:


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## MA-Caver (Oct 18, 2006)

This is really sad and really a serious problem. To ban typical playtime activities like Tag and touch football what is the child to do with that energy yearning to be burnt off inside them? Make them sit and do nothing? 
Oh well they'll more cases of overly hyper kids for the drug-pushers at the pharmacutical companies to push their ritalin on... without a thought as to why these kids are hyper in the first place... no tag, no red-rover, no touch football no playing around and lets take away those jungle-gyms and monkey bars too while we're at it. Lets get rid of the balls too... they might bop a child on the head one too many time and cause mild brain damage, or cause a child to trip and fall over something in an effort to catch it or kick it. 
In fact lets get rid of recesses altogether because it isn't helping a child taking the chance of getting hurt by taking them for 20-30 minutes of the day out of the classroom where they can continue learning. 

Stupid *GREEDY* lawyers and overly protective parents and pissed in the pants scared teachers are what brought this about. 

SIGH!


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## Drac (Oct 18, 2006)

Many , many years ago when I was in Elementary school they banned recesses because a young man in his haste to get out into the fresh air and sunshine tripped on the steps and hurt himself...So instead of enforcing the walk don't run policy they banned recess..Stupidity know no time lines...


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## exile (Oct 18, 2006)

CoryKS said:


> Meanwhile, school officials continue to seek ways to reduce childhood obesity.



If you combine Cory's observation here with MA-Caver's last post, you get a perfectly plausible situation where a school faces multiple lawsuits from parents outraged over the dangers to their children of allowing games of tag during recess if they do allow such activities, and faces multiple lawsuits from parents outraged over the dangers to their children's health due to obesity which the school is contributing to, if they don't. There may not be an explosion due to cognitive dissonance, but to the head-on impact of rival teams of lawyers tearing toward huge pro bono fees at warp speed.

Here's what's really strange: if you talk to people as _individuals_ about this sort of thing, most of them will probably have a fairly reasonable take on it and agree that our addiction to litigation has led us to completely idiotic impasses like this one. So how come our society, as a _collectivity_, has allowed this bizarre lawsuit-crazy culture to emerge?


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## Drac (Oct 18, 2006)

I'm surprized that no one has leaked this to the mainstream media..I'm sure the Governor of California would have thoughts on the subject..Talk about bad publicity...


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## Kacey (Oct 18, 2006)

The same thing happened some years back with dodge ball - it was determined to be detrimental to students' emotional development... I guess now I know what scarred me for life - too many years of dodge ball in PE!


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## Lisa (Oct 18, 2006)

So what is "safe" now?  When I think of the stuff I did as a kid...jeesh surprised I survived.


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## Drac (Oct 18, 2006)

Lisa said:


> So what is "safe" now? When I think of the stuff I did as a kid...jeesh surprised I survived.


 
I know what you mean..We climbed tall trees and hug upside down hammering nails into it to built tree houses...


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## Lisa (Oct 18, 2006)

Drac said:


> I know what you mean..We climbed tall trees and hug upside down hammering nails into it to built tree houses...



We had cliffs that we would jump off into the river behind us...no parental supervision


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## searcher (Oct 18, 2006)

Just another way to help society bread a bunch of obese, docile, video game playing adult.   If you are fat, out of shape, and not driven you can more easily control them.


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## Kacey (Oct 18, 2006)

How 'bout this, which I found while I was looking for something else:

Broward County, Florida, playground rules






From the article the sign was linked to:



> One of the rules posted outlaws running on the playground. One parent expressed amazement any playground would have a rule outlawing running, "I realize we want to keep kids from cracking their heads open, but there has to be a place where they can get out and run." Not on the playground, according to Jerry Graziose, the county safety officer who ordered the signs  the area is "too tight around the equipment" and the idea was "to try to control it (running)." What Broward County is trying to avoid isn't the running as much as the violent collision that ensues when running ends abruptly against playground equipment. Since 1999, the schools have paid out over (US)$500K to settle close to 200 claims for playground accidents. That represented five percent of the total spent on all kinds of injury claims over that period of time. That led to the focus on activities on the playgrounds which, in turn led to the rules.



The article goes on to talk about the disappearance of playground equipment for safety reasons.


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## Makalakumu (Oct 18, 2006)

I can't help it..."You conspiracy theorist..."

Anyway, I agree.  "Do what your told.  Ye slave..."


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## Lisa (Oct 18, 2006)

Kacey said:


> How 'bout this, which I found while I was looking for something else:
> 
> Broward County, Florida, playground rules
> 
> ...



Yup, that picture says it all....empty playground, I wonder why :rollseyes:


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## Drac (Oct 18, 2006)

Lisa said:


> We had cliffs that we would jump off into the river behind us...no parental supervision


 
We dove or jumped from the roof of our friends houseboat...


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## Andrew Green (Oct 18, 2006)

Drac said:


> I'm surprized that no one has leaked this to the mainstream media..I'm sure the Governor of California would have thoughts on the subject..Talk about bad publicity...



I thought CNN was the mainstream media


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## Stan (Oct 18, 2006)

It is a FACT OF LIFE  that everyone will at some point be PHYSICALLY AND EMOTIONALLY HURT.  It is also a fact of life that at some point, EVERYONE will be physically damaged so badly they will DIE.  

I honestly believe that the moral weakness that allows this kind of crap to go on is deeper than a litigous society.  It is a fundamental denial of what it means to be human, to be powerful yet fragile, to have a limited amount of time on the Earth and a choice whether to make the most of it or cower in fear.  I am an athiest myself, but EVERYONE needs an outlook, whether philosophical, spiritual or religious (coming from either reason or revelation) that allows them to deal with their own fragility and mortality and that of their loved ones without hiding from life or living in paralyzing denial.

In short, it is a SICK ghost of a society that bans childrens' games for their own protection.


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## Andrew Green (Oct 18, 2006)

If you want people to become strong, they got to play rough once and a while.  No way around it.  If you want them to be tough they need to get hurt once and a while.

And I think the two go together.  The litigous part and the weak part.  If I thought someone was going to sue me because I let kids play tag, well I'd probably say no more tag to avoid the legal battle.  But unfortunately there are people that have this "dream" of a family member getting hurt and them winning millions in court by sueing, and these people need a good butt kicking.


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## MJS (Oct 18, 2006)

Andrew Green said:


> Officials at an elementary school south of Boston have banned kids from playing tag, touch football and any other unsupervised chase game during recess for fear they'll get hurt and hold the school liable.
> 
> Recess is "a time when accidents can happen," said Willett Elementary School Principal Gaylene Heppe, who approved the ban.
> 
> ...


 
So, let me see if I understand this.  They're banning activities like this that are unsupervised, because of the fear of injury and lawsuit?  Ok..so what about when those activities are supervised?  Whats to stop the injuries?  In todays world, there are alot of sue happy folks, so I'm sure, supervised or not, if there is an injury, someone will find a way to sue.

Mike


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## exile (Oct 19, 2006)

Stan said:


> it is a SICK ghost of a society that bans childrens' games for their own protection.





Andrew Green said:


> If you want people to become strong, they got to play rough once and a while.  No way around it.  If you want them to be tough they need to get hurt once and a while.



You guys are right on target here. The thing is, we all _know_ this is true---we all know that if you raise a child in a sterile bubble, the first time they get a cold it'll probably kill them; their immune systems won't develop unless they're tested and challenged by some fairly nasty bugs. That's the model of protecting children we should be looking at, rather than one which in effect imprisons them `for their own good'.

As Stan pointed out, there is _major_ denial going on when someone decides that it's better for a child's muscles to atrophy from being unused than to have them run the risk of minor injuries by physically expressing that wonderful boundless energy we envy them for. But that kind of denial seems to be part of the tenor of our times---blame the restaurant if you overeat, or spill coffee on yourself that you weren't warned was really hot, etc. etc.---as though (i) it were possible to configure the world so that nothing bad could possibly, ever, under any circumstances, happen to you, and (ii) if something bad _does_ happen, it just has to be someone else's fault. Not sure how these twin illusions came to be so widespread...


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## Cruentus (Oct 19, 2006)

We need a Major Payne to tell principle Heppe, "Why don't you pop yo titty out of their mouths, and quite babying them!!"


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## Carol (Oct 19, 2006)

*shrug*

We already aren't allowed to keep score during kids soccer games because losing might make kids feel bad.


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## MA-Caver (Oct 19, 2006)

Tulisan said:


> We need a Major Payne to tell principle Heppe, "Why don't you pop yo titty out of their mouths, and quit babying them!!"



.


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## Drac (Oct 19, 2006)

Andrew Green said:


> I thought CNN was the mainstream media


 
Duhhhh!!! You are correct I forgot they said CNN...My bad..


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## HKphooey (Oct 19, 2006)

Flying Crane said:


> Ah yes, children are so very fragile. A rapid movement of air is likely to damage them irreparably. If only we could keep them in airtight containers...


 
Boy in the bubble!


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## Stan (Oct 19, 2006)

Carol Kaur said:


> *shrug*
> 
> We already aren't allowed to keep score during kids soccer games because losing might make kids feel bad.




If you don't keep score, soccer is just a bunch of idiots running around if a field kicking a piece of leather.


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## Stan (Oct 19, 2006)

By the way, I'm glad to see common sense knows no political boundaries here.  The Left and the Right often would both accuse each other of bringing about such as sad situation as banning tag.  Now I know most people by default are to my right (except maybe you, UpNorth   ), and we all seem to agree.


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## CoryKS (Oct 19, 2006)

Stan said:


> By the way, I'm glad to see common sense knows no political boundaries here. The Left and the Right often would both accuse each other of bringing about such as sad situation as banning tag. Now I know most people by default are to my right (except maybe you, UpNorth  ), and we all seem to agree.


 
I don't think it's a left/right thing, just a situation where people don't think about the long-term effects of their actions.  Let's say a kid gets hurt playing on the playground.  The child's parents want to protect their child, of course, and sue the school.  Maybe they also think they are protecting other children as well.  What they believe they have done by suing is to compel the school to provide a safer play environment for the kids.  What is actually happening is that the schools are deciding to scrap the play environment altogether.  This is an unintended and unfortunate consequence.  

Reminds me of one of those jokes that went around listing the Men's Rules for Women:  You can tell me what to do or how to do it, but not both.


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## MJS (Oct 19, 2006)

A link to the article in my local paper. 

http://www.courant.com/news/local/hc-ctnotag1019.artoct19,0,5577582.story?coll=hc-headlines-local

I found this part pretty interesting:



> "Elimination games like Tag or Simon Says are essentially self-defeating," Williams continued, "because the students who are least skilled and fit are usually the first to be caught, banished, punished, and embarrassed, and then given almost no opportunity to improve."


 
IMO, this statement is pretty sad. Not being number 1, not always getting what we want is part of life! This is basically saying that games like tag or a similar activity are going to be hurtful to kids if they happen to be the first person out! So lets do away with something that is giving physical exercise like running, because someones feelings may be hurt. 

Its one thing to want your child to do well in an activity, but then you have some people that make a child feel as if they're a nobody unless they're always number 1. Sorry, but it just doesn't happen like that in real life. Maybe in the fantasy land that some raise their kids in.

Mike


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## Lisa (Oct 19, 2006)

This whole discussion on this subject reminds me of what I see at work every fall.

I work at the local University and in my building we run a small residence.

Over the course of the past four years I have seen young adults come in who have no clue how to wake themselves up for school, do their own laundry, make their own bed, iron their own clothes, etc.  Not to mention the struggle they have academically because they have come through a system of not falling on their butts and having to strive for good marks.

It is truly mind blowing to me when parents call asking who is going to wake up their son?  Asking when laundry service is and how often their rooms will be cleaned.   I find it hard to believe that you would send a child out into university life with very little skills in every day life.

Every parent wants to make everything good for their child.  But by not teaching them that there is success and failure in life and not teaching them to strive past it, we do them such an injustice.

We are suppose help our children succeed, not do it for them.

Sorry for the slight off topic, but I see this whole "banning of children's games" along the same lines.


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## crushing (Oct 19, 2006)

Stan said:


> If you don't keep score, soccer is just a bunch of idiots running around if a field kicking a piece of leather.


 

The idiots aren't the ones running around on the field.  Believe me, they not only know the score, but they know their record and the record of the team they are playing.


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## bydand (Oct 19, 2006)

crushing said:


> The idiots aren't the ones running around on the field.  Believe me, they not only know the score, but they know their record and the record of the team they are playing.



Correct!  When they get a bit older, kids know where they stand even if the "adults" around them pretend not to.  Everybody knows who is winning and losing, not only at sports but acidemics as well.  It may make the adults feel better by not having to make a tough choice, but, it does nothing for the kids involved.  Sure, it may save a child from having to say they lost at something, but is that giving them real life skills?  NO it isn't.  If I tell somebody that X,Y,& Z needs to be done by the end of the week so the project can continue onto the next phase, guess what is going to happen to said individual when they get X done, but Y,& Z were just a little tough so they didn't do them.  Can anyone say FIRED.  I can accept a setback if there is a real problem, I will not accept a setback due to somebody not attempting to finish their job because it is difficult.  

No tag, not keeping score, Social grade promotion, etc... what are we teaching our youth?  It scares me truthfully!


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## Andrew Green (Oct 19, 2006)

When a child can never lose, they can also never really win.  And both are important things to learn how to do.

Kid's are competitive, and they play rough.  It's been breed into us for millions of years where the strong didn't always survive, and if you wanted to survive you had to get strong as a kid.

I got a very simple belief that if you mess around with what is natural behaviour and instinctive to people, the results won't be pretty.


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## heretic888 (Oct 19, 2006)

exile said:


> Not sure how these twin illusions came to be so widespread...


 
I would highly suggest reading _Boomeritis_ by Ken Wilber.


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## exile (Oct 19, 2006)

MJS said:


> A link to the article in my local paper.
> 
> http://www.courant.com/news/local/hc-ctnotag1019.artoct19,0,5577582.story?coll=hc-headlines-local
> 
> ...





Now try the following on for size:

  "Games like tennis or darts or... are essentially self-defeating, because     the players who are least skilled and fit are usually the first to be eliminated, and then given almost no opportunity to improve"

Same logic, as far as I can tell. Anything where some standard of performance is involved---something you could test yourself against and measure your improvement and _mastery_ by (and thereby use as training for improvement)---is going to be eliminated if the concept in the original quotation is followed. 

We're getting in real life what Garrison Keiler thought he was joking about in Lake Woebegone---_all of the children are above average!_. 

And while they're at it, the teachers might as well eliminate art classes as well, since some students are going to be so obviously better than others at it, and math, since there are a small number of kids with an almost instinctive aptitude for it and a huge majority who find extremely intimidating and difficult, and ... and, ...

Welcome to Planet Mediocrity, folks!


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## exile (Oct 19, 2006)

heretic888 said:


> I would highly suggest reading _Boomeritis_ by Ken Wilber.



Boomers... well, I'm one of them, but I'm not sure how things got to this point. Because as I recall, we were competitive almost to a point that was almost pathological. Boomers are amongst the most obsessive workaholics of all time, and I don't know a single one who doesn't take pride in being _really_ good at some field of knowledge or domain of creativity (and constant sneaking of glances over the shoulder to see how Those Other People are doing---a good pal and colleague of mine, the same age as me, sums up the attitude as, `Success is not enough---friends must fail!')

Maybe it had something to do with having kids? When people are told they have to be the best of the best for most of their lives (first by their parents, then by each other), they can't break out of that training themselves---too ingrained---but maybe they want to go out of their way to make their children less obsessive about it. I've quite consciously done that with my own son, based on my own family experience. The thing is, though, there's a point where a lower demand level for success becomes a kind of free pass to drift. Not good, not good at all... there has to be balance, balance, balance (The Slow Side Kick Principle :wink1


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## Andrew Green (Oct 19, 2006)

Lisa said:


> It is truly mind blowing to me when parents call asking who is going to wake up their son?  Asking when laundry service is and how often their rooms will be cleaned.   I find it hard to believe that you would send a child out into university life with very little skills in every day life.



Well if kids can't be left responsible to organize and play sometimng as simple and as natural as a game of tag on there own, how on earth are they supposed to be able to do anything else unsupervised?


The worst part of all of this?

I now get to remember "The good old days" when, as kids, it was expected that we "Go out and play, but be back before dark".... expcected... it was enforced, spending the entire week in front of the TV or a Atarii / Nintendo was not allowed, we got sent to the park.

I feel old...  and I am not old enough to feel old...  what has the world come too, this is supposed to be all about me, and I don't wasnt to feel old, so let the kids play!


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## Kacey (Oct 19, 2006)

This bounces around the email ring from time to time:

People over thirty should have died as kids because...

_"Our baby cribs were covered with brightly coloured lead paint"_
_
__"We had no childproof lids on medicine bottles, doors or cabinets"_
_
__"when we rode our bikes we had no helmets. (Not to mention the risks we took hitchhiking.)"_

_"We would ride in cars with no seatbelts or airbags. Riding in the back of a pickup truck on a warm day was always a special treat."_
_
__"We drank water from the garden hose and not a bottle."_
_
__"We ate (unhealthy things) and we were never overweight because we were outside playing."_
_
__"We shared one soft drink with four friends from one bottle and nobody actually died from this."_
_
__"We would leave home in the morning and play all day, as long as we were back when the street lights came on. No one was able to reach us all day. No cell phones. Unthinkable!"
_

_"We did not have Playstations, Nintendo 64, X-Boxes, no video games at all, no 99 channels on cable, video tape movies, surround sound, personal cell phones, personal computers, or Internet chat rooms. We had friends! We went outside and found them. We played dodge ball, and sometimes, the ball would really hurt."_
_
__"We fell out of trees, got cut and broke bones and teeth, and there were no lawsuits from these accidents. They were accidents. No one was to blame but us. Remember accidents?"_
_
__"We had fights and punched each other and got black and blue and learned to get over it."_
_
__"We made up games with sticks and tennis balls and ate worms, and although we were told it would happen, we did not put out very many eyes, nor did the worms live inside us forever."
_

_"Little League had tryouts and not everyone made the team. Those who didn't had to learn to deal with disappointment. Some students weren't as smart as others, so they failed a grade and were held back to repeat the same grade. Horrors! Tests were not adjusted for any reason."_
_
__"Our actions were our own. Consequences were expected. The idea of a parent bailing us out if we broke a law was unheard of. They actually sided with the law. Imagine that!"_

Now, I'm not saying that all of the changes are bad - certainly, getting rid of lead paint is a good thing - but think about the things we were able to do as kids that kids today can't do because of fear on the part of adults - fear of injury, of lawsuits, of the unknown.  It scares me that this is what our society has come to.


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## heretic888 (Oct 19, 2006)

exile said:


> Boomers... well, I'm one of them, but I'm not sure how things got to this point.


 
I will have to reiterate my earlier suggestion.

Read the book I mentioned. This goes a LOT deeper than people babying their offspring or being too litigous. Much deeper.

Laterz.


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## exile (Oct 19, 2006)

heretic888 said:


> I will have to reiterate my earlier suggestion.
> 
> Read the book I mentioned. This goes a LOT deeper than people babying their offspring or being too litigous. Much deeper.
> 
> Laterz.



OK---I will put on my stack, up towards the top---thanks for the reference!


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## Lisa (Oct 20, 2006)

I found this article regarding the importance of free unstructured play and being important for children and thought I would share it as part of this thread.


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## Makalakumu (Oct 20, 2006)

As long as we are recommending books, I'll give my pick...

Last Child in the Woods by Richard Louv




> *From Publishers Weekly*
> 
> 
> Today's kids are increasingly disconnected from the natural world, says child advocacy expert Louv (Childhood's Future; Fatherlove; etc.), even as research shows that "thoughtful exposure of youngsters to nature can... be a powerful form of therapy for attention-deficit disorder and other maladies."
> ...


 
In my opinion, the same factors that pull our kids away from green spaces and other areas in the "rough" are the same factors that pull our kids away from tag.  

This book was one of the better books I've read this year and as a parent of young children, I have to say that it greatly influenced how I want to raise my children.


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