# The Coming Storm



## Archangel M (Aug 9, 2011)

Crime is historically low, but that could change quickly.


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## Archangel M (Aug 9, 2011)

The part that I see already:



> _More cops, and better educated and equipped cops_: A solid economy helped attract better applicants and increased levels of training. Those same dollars helped fund computer-aided dispatch systems, hand-held radios, in-car computers and video, etc.



But now...



> First, there&#8217;s budget. Cuts to operating budgets of 10% and even 20% are common nowadays. Some smaller agencies have gone out of business altogether. Depending on whom you ask (and I&#8217;ve asked a lot), the number of officers in this country has decreased by approximately 100,000 or more during the last three years. Decreased staffing means fewer investigators, crime scene techs and task forces&#8212;all of whom are responsible for running down the worst bad guys. Special enforcement efforts funded by overtime have been gutted. Slashed budgets also mean that training and equipment are cut or eliminated.
> 
> *Second, the public servant is now commonly vilified as being over-compensated. Pension benefits are being reduced and salaries, which determine the ultimate pension benefit, are being cut. Not surprisingly, those who can leave are doing so, resulting in some of the most experienced people heading for the exits.
> *


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## Xue Sheng (Aug 9, 2011)

Archangel M said:


> But now...



This bit



> Second, the public servant is now commonly vilified as being over-compensated. Pension benefits are being reduced and salaries, which determine the ultimate pension benefit, are being cut. Not surprisingly, those who can leave are doing so, resulting in some of the most experienced people heading for the exits.



This is hitting all public servants and I see a real big issue down the line just in the basics the public has become accustom to that will have to go away. Of course the politicains will just use that to say public servants are lazy and overpaid and cut more and the vicious cycle continues

What happens when you can't find anyone to take care of the computer-aided dispatch systems, hand-held radios, in-car computers and video just because they are tired of being underappreciated, underpaid as well as vilified as compared to the private sector?

I'm IT and it is hard enough to get talented people to go into public service and stay in public service to take care of the tech needs but now, why would anyone want to be herehell I want out and after close to 20 years make me the right offer and Im gone. 

Look at what is happening to teachers for crying out loud, they have been made the bad guys for al lthe School system woes.

Police and safety are big ticket items in my state meaning threatening to cut them and cutting them takes the view off of the real issues such as high level government spending and question of where is the money really going. Tell the public you want cuts. Ok we are cutting the police since it shows that the politician actually did something and he can tell the public they have no one to blame but themselves and then said politician can still go on wasting money per usual and have a great campaign slogan as to how he cut spending. Sad part is the people that are hurt by this tend to re-elect the same guy over and over again.


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## Archangel M (Aug 9, 2011)

People don't seem to want to believe that "you get what you pay for" applies to public servants. When you start paying cops peanuts, you are going to wind up with people who will take graft in higher percentages. It's also easier to wind up with a "so what" attitude in regards to loosing a low paying job. IMO you will find less corruption in an organization where you would be afraid of loosing your job and benes.


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## Xue Sheng (Aug 9, 2011)

Archangel M said:


> People don't seem to want to believe that "you get what you pay for" applies to public servants. When you start paying cops peanuts, you are going to wind up with people who will take graft in higher percentages. It's also easier to wind up with a "so what" attitude in regards to loosing a low paying job. IMO you will find less corruption in an organization where you would be afraid of loosing your job and benes.



Absolutely agree and the same can be said for other state or federal investigators, inspectors and security personnel. 

Imagine a underpaid bridge inspector in NYC with all the graft that goes on there.


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## MJS (Aug 9, 2011)

A few prisons are closing here in CT due to the low crime, etc.  It was a concern of the COs, that by closing prisons and moving inmates to already over crowded prisons, the risk of fights, riots, etc, goes up.  Well, sure enough, there was a fight and 6 COs got hurt.  Personally, I dont know how people can say crime is going down, when Hartford, CT, the capital city just about 10 or so min. north of me, has gunfire and shootings on a nightly basis. 

Everything is a rush to save money, but IMO, by cutting back, its causing a serious risk to public safety as well as the safety of the officers.


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## Archangel M (Aug 9, 2011)

MJS said:


> A few prisons are closing here in CT due to the low crime, etc. It was a concern of the COs, that by closing prisons and moving inmates to already over crowded prisons, the risk of fights, riots, etc, goes up. Well, sure enough, there was a fight and 6 COs got hurt. Personally, I dont know how people can say crime is going down, when Hartford, CT, the capital city just about 10 or so min. north of me, has gunfire and shootings on a nightly basis.
> 
> Everything is a rush to save money, but IMO, by cutting back, its causing a serious risk to public safety as well as the safety of the officers.



From the article:

A factor in why crime is down:


> _Tough sentencing laws_: Our society said, &#8220;Put them in a box.&#8221; It&#8217;s hard to reoffend when you&#8217;re in prison.



BUT...


> Third, our prisons are on the verge of releasing thousands of prisoners because they can no longer afford to keep them for their full sentences. Meanwhile, parole funding has been dramatically cut, so monitoring of those released will be minimal at best. When good citizens are having a hard enough time finding employment, what does that mean for convicted felons?


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## Sukerkin (Aug 9, 2011)

Your thread title says it all, mate.  Aye, a gathering storm indeed.  It's not easy to see where the solution lies when everyone is crying out for cuts, understandable with the debt burden of the country, but noone wants to pay any taxes to pay for retaining levels of service.

It's simple economics - you want an infrastructure then you have to stump up the cash for it.  It's part of why I get so 'head-butting-the-wall' with the short-sighted position that only looks at cutting expenditure.


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## MJS (Aug 9, 2011)

Archangel M said:


> From the article:
> 
> A factor in why crime is down:
> 
> ...



One has to ask....why can't they afford to keep them locked up?



Sukerkin said:


> Your thread title says it all, mate.  Aye, a gathering storm indeed.  It's not easy to see where the solution lies when everyone is crying out for cuts, understandable with the debt burden of the country, but noone wants to pay any taxes to pay for retaining levels of service.
> 
> It's simple economics - you want an infrastructure then you have to stump up the cash for it.  It's part of why I get so 'head-butting-the-wall' with the short-sighted position that only looks at cutting expenditure.



Exactly!  Its like robbing Peter to pay Paul.  They run short on money, so they start doing cutbacks.  Prisons get closed.  Solves one issue, but wait....suddenly, there are riots, which result in the potential of COs getting hurt, which means, others will have to fill in at time and a half.  Then suddenly, there is a huge rise in crime, resulting in more people being sent to prison.  

Its a big revolving door, with no end in sight.


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## Xue Sheng (Aug 9, 2011)

Sukerkin said:


> Your thread title says it all, mate. Aye, a gathering storm indeed. It's not easy to see where the solution lies when everyone is crying out for cuts, understandable with the debt burden of the country, but noone wants to pay any taxes to pay for retaining levels of service.
> 
> It's simple economics - you want an infrastructure then you have to stump up the cash for it. It's part of why I get so 'head-butting-the-wall' with the short-sighted position that only looks at cutting expenditure.



Oh I don't know....

Department Commissioners, senators and legislature with $150,000 per year salaries or greater... of course that is not including their expense accounts for housing, fuel, food, etc all of which are over $100,000 per year... so it makes perfect since to cut law enforcement, government employees, Prison guards...I mean those guys are causing the whole problem. It make soooo much more since to lay off 5 cleaners or 2 or 3 police officers or prison guards or 2 or 3 IT people than cut one guys expense account for fuel....which he does not pay for since he is also give a car and a driver and the car is fueled at a state depot

Sorry I am not directing it at you... I just live this crap every single day and I am getting rather furstrated

And before anyone jumps in and starts pointing fingersRepublican.Democratno difference they are all doing the same damn thing


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## Kong Soo Do (Aug 9, 2011)

Some times it is helpful to look at things from a big picture perspective.  For example, our society thinks nothing of an athlete making millions of dollars for running down a cow pasture carrying a pig skin.  Or standing in a field waiting for the ole horse-hide to come their way.  They may be talented, but it is a game.  On the other hand, a police officer, EMT, Fire fighter or teacher is in a position to actually make a daily difference in the lives of real people.  Often dramatically.  Yet pay is being cut in the form of reduced benefits.  Pensions are being attacked.  Opportunities for continuing education are reduced.  So one gets millions for playing a game whereas those that 'serve and protect' or educate a new generation or respond to crisis/disasters often have to struggle to make ends meet.  The standard is lop-sided.   

And to be honest and blunt, most people are sheeple.  Try an experiment (I've done this); next time you're in a large group of people (at the office, family BBQ etc) ask people (by show of hands) who can name 5 pro football teams?  Most will raise their hands.  Who can name five pro baseball and basketball teams?  Again, most if not all will raise their hands.   Now...ask how many know the names of their two State Senators?  Ask how many know the name of their Congressman and what district they live in?  You may get a shock at the lack of hands.  So..we know more about sports teams, what athlete just got arrested for rape or drugs, what movie star is cheating on their spouse than we do actual people that have a daily effect on our lives in a dramatic way.  Again, the standard is lop-sided.  

Without turning this into a polictical discussion, I'd like you to consider this;  in the last election, within 24 hours of Sarah Palin announcing she was the VP pick we knew her husband was arrested for DUI...20 years ago.  Now, regardless of what you think of Palin, why do I as a voter care what her husband did 20 years ago as a youngster?  That has no bearing on her politics.  Yet the media felt content to shove that down my throat.  Yet, the mainstream didn't touch where Obama's money came from.  Who started his political career.  His association with former terrorists, socialists and card-carrying communists.  Again, whatever you may feel towards Obama's politics is not the point I'm making.  As a voter who is trying hard to consider the issues I'd like to get the straight scope on who a person REALLY is and what THEY'VE done and what THEY actually believe.  Then maybe I can better consider what they will do if/when they get elected.  I don't want to have it sold to me.  I'd like some unbiased reporting.  I don't think that is to much to ask regardless of what (if any) party you belong to.  

O'well...just tossing some things out there that came to mind in this thread.  Yes, the storm is coming.  Who is actually ready for it?


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## Carol (Aug 9, 2011)

How much of this is affected by media coverage (or lack of it)?   

I'm kind of surprised at the crime and the stuff LEOs do that *doesn't* make the papers.   Is this creating a perception that fewer police are needed?


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## MaxiMe (Aug 9, 2011)

Carol said:


> How much of this is affected by media coverage (or lack of it)?
> 
> I'm kind of surprised at the crime and the stuff LEOs do that *doesn't* make the papers. Is this creating a perception that fewer police are needed?


I know our local paper has quit putting the crime stats in our paper.


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## OKenpo942 (Aug 17, 2011)

Thank you Kong Soo Do. Well said. I have often had these types of discussions with others. People are just flat out selfish. If it isn't entertainment for them, they just don't care. It is so much easier for them if, when they get home from the daily grind (assuming they have a job), they just flip on a game and forget about the problems in society or their own life. It isn't until later in life that they start caring. When all of the unimportant things they ignored in their younger years become important, they wonder how things have deteriorated so. Well, wake up people! Life is happening right now! Ignoring the problems will not fix anything! Stop waiting for everyone else to fix things! There are too many who are doing just that. Maybe YOU can do something to make YOUR life better. Oh wait... you might miss the game. Can't let that happen. 

Don't get me wrong, I love sports. I got a top notch education paid for because I was able to play a game well, but I understand that it is just a game and is unimportant in the big sceme of things. Carol, as for the things that LEOs do that don't make the paper, are you talking about good things or bad? If you are talking about good things, I agree. If bad, those seem to be the only things about law enforcement officers that seem to get any attention. Oh well, we will keep fighting the good fight despite those who are fighting the good.

Well, that's my rant. Not sorry because I care. God bless you all.

James


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## Xue Sheng (Aug 17, 2011)

Carol said:


> How much of this is affected by media coverage (or lack of it)?
> 
> I'm kind of surprised at the crime and the stuff LEOs do that *doesn't* make the papers. Is this creating a perception that fewer police are needed?



You may..or may not... be surprised and how many things that don't make the paper about politicians... that really should... and I'm not talking postive things in this case.


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