# Shoes?



## Jas0n (Mar 3, 2003)

Ok, so does your dojo require some sort of martial arts shoe or wrestling shoe? Mine does...


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## theletch1 (Mar 3, 2003)

My kwoon has a "shoes" optional policy.  Most of us don't wear shoes so that we are better able to pivot without the risk of blowing a knee during class.  About the only time I will wear shoes for training is during grappling training to give me better leverage.  
     What about other non-traditional garments?  Street clothes?  We only do one night of street clothes training per month.  I try to train at home a several times a month in what I wear to work so that I know the feel and how well everything will stretch.  I wear steel toe boots at work (truck driver).  Talk about a different feel for a kick!

Theletch1

"Make civilized the mind....
Make savage the body."


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## D_Brady (Mar 3, 2003)

I rent space at a preschool so I told them from the get go that everyone would wear shoes. Barefeet even socks can leave an odor and thats not good foe their school either.

 I was at a school for awhile and everyone went bare foot because of tradition, but one person had atheletes foot and would leave skin on the rug like he had leprosy. IMHO tradition goes out the window when it comes to catching other peoples ailments.

 I took the job vacumeing the rug to make sure it was cleand and disinfected.
 Now at my school the only need some type of foot wear, I tell them just get a cheap pare of sneakers if they like.

 Plus I like people to train in shoes , their more likely to defend them selves in shoes so they need to what moves will work for THEM and what might put them at risk.


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## Bill Smith (Mar 3, 2003)

I think there was a topic on something about shoes earlier but shoes in the training area and when doing self defense techniques is a good thing. It better prepares you for if you ever had to use this stuff. It's like night and day when doing Kenpo bare foot and then going to shoes. 

Its good practice.
Bill Smith


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## Jill666 (Mar 3, 2003)

I usually prefer to train barefoot, but if we are going self-defense or sparring, I'll go to shoes. I have calloused feet, so I'm quite comfortable doing kata barefoot.


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## Goldendragon7 (Mar 3, 2003)

I don't allow shoes in the studio as a norm.  We have a shoe rack in the front and you park them there.

We train barefoot to insure proper ankle, foot, and toe positions. I want to be able to see and correct the positions and you can't get a good look in shoes.  Of course you have to keep up personal hygiene as a courtesy to others.  In all the studios that I have visited that train most always with shoes, (particularly in the beginning) the foot positions are always sloppy and in need of adjustment.

With that being said.... there are other times when training with shoes is extremely useful to "condition" the student for what they will be experiencing BUT .......... But... when we do it is not with a light flimsy shoe designed just for mats, it is with dress shoes, or sneakers or everyday shoes that everyone wears!

:asian:


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## bahenlaura (Mar 3, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Goldendragon7 _
> *I don't allow shoes in the studio as a norm.  We have a shoe rack in the front and you park them there.
> 
> We train barefoot to insure proper ankle, foot, and toe positions. I want to be able to see and correct the positions and you can't get a good look in shoes.  Of course you have to keep up personal hygiene as a courtesy to others.  In all the studios that I have visited that train most always with shoes, (particularly in the beginning) the foot positions are always sloppy and in need of adjustment.
> ...



Same in our school. 
However I would like to work out in regular clothing once in a while so I get the feel of it. 
Who knows we may not have enough time to slip into our Gis if confronted in the street.


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## Kenpodoc (Mar 3, 2003)

Our school is shoes optional and I train both ways.  I started wearing shoes agter stripping a prctice knife straight into my foot.  Painful and one more reason I don't belong in a knife fight.

I also try to train periodically in my street clothes (shirt, Tie, dress shoes, sport jacket etc.) Variety is the spice of life.


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## Kempojujutsu (Mar 3, 2003)

Don't require it. But I like wearing wrestling shoes. Use to get back aches when I didn't and was working on a hard floor.
Bob :asian:


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## tarabos (Mar 3, 2003)

our school has the choice. my personal feeling is that either everybody wears shoes...or no one does...

especiallly in terms of instructor safety...i've seen a few instructor tonails get ripped off from people wearing shoes while they were helping the learn a technique...


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## SRyuFighter (Mar 3, 2003)

We don't wear shoes. I think my sensei would hurt me. Lol. We do go out every now and then and wear our shoes and practice for a feel of how it is in shoes. I do this at home also...


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## Blindside (Mar 3, 2003)

Shoes are optional for us.

I wear wrestling shoes all the time when I am training.  My feet have very poor arches and working out barefoot can be pretty tough on them.  The hygiene and reality advantages  are just a bonus.

Lamont


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## MartialArtsGuy (Mar 3, 2003)

its optional where i train. Most of us do wear shoes though. Its been a number of years since i've trained bare foot. Its funny now that i think about it, because in the dojo i always have shoes on but when training out of the dojo, i am in socks or just bare feet. My girlfriend tells me that after training the smell of my feet alone is enough to put down any attacker.


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## Big Pat (Mar 3, 2003)

Most likely if you ever have  to use your Kenpo skills you will be wearing shoes of some type - why not train in them. Shoes support your feet and provide a degree of protection. I can understand not using them in a studio setting for various reasons, but you must  be able to defend yourself with and without your shoes. 

EKP RIP
Big Pat
:asian:


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## Goldendragon7 (Mar 3, 2003)

I had a student many years ago that was at a party and got into a scuffle........ he went and sat down and took off his shoes then got up and kicked the guys ***....

When he came into the studio the next time he was in, he told me about it...... I told him he was lucky!   I would have kicked your teeth in while you were stupid enough to sit down and take off your shoes...... 

billy jack...... geeze.....

:rofl:


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## Kirk (Mar 4, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Goldendragon7 _
> *billy jack...... geeze.....
> *



LOL!!! I'm gonna take this foot, and put it on that side of your
head, and there's nothing you're gonna be able to do about it!


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## headkick (Mar 4, 2003)

Kept bending toes on elbows and such.  Put on a pair of Asics, and I've never had problem since.  It has forced me to put more emphasis on properly rotating into stances.  No knee or ankle problem associatated with the shoes.  When I don't wear them, I figure nobody can recognize me.  

I did catcha toenail on the nose from a roundhouse kick in class one time.  He was 6'8", I'm 6'1", so it was an easy reach.  My bad, but it still cost me 3 stitches and tetanous shot.

I like shoes.

R


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## Kenpomachine (Mar 4, 2003)

We train now bare footed or with light mat or dancing shoes. That's because of the new floor surface we have at the gym, because we were used to train with sneackers everyday 
The old mat is soooooo old, it's dangerous to your feet, so I hate it everytime we have to train there, which is currently once a week.


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## Ultraboy (Mar 4, 2003)

I prefer barefoot, because I'm a sucker for tradition. 

I guess I see it this way: yes, if we ever use kenpo in a street situation, we should train in shoes. But following that line of thought, we then should forgo the gi--which allows for more freedom of movement--and wear more restrictive street wear. 
Being barefoot, wearing a gi--it adds to the mystique of the dojo, and traditionalist that I am, I prefer it. But that's just me.

I like the idea of training in street clothes, if only now and then.

But I do feel if there are shoes, then everyone should wear them. I've been kicked with shoes before (by accident), and it hurts a lot more than just a bare foot.  Maybe I should start wearing lead filled mittens to even it up a bit.:shrug:


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## Michael Billings (Mar 4, 2003)

I also "prefer" barefoot, but for the sake of reality training, I do allow shoes.  Nobody consistantly wears them unless the weather is below about 40 degrees F; at that point it is probably cold enough indoors to wear shoes, since I like the cold ... and the heat, we just never turn on the A/C or heater.  (Cheap? - Nah, just another Karate Bum.)  August sparring makes for great conditioning for sparring at camp in the fall in California.

I put on shoes when it gets too cold or if I need the ankle support.  I wear Otomix but they still grab the floor, reference my trying to do side splits with them on, I can't get my full range due to the shoes having too much traction.  

I am with Prof GoldenOne on this - Barefoot first, you HAVE to learn correct foot, ankle, and knee positions - otherwise when you hit the bag or someone there is a crunch heard along with your howl or curse, depending on disposition.

Oss,
-Michael
Kenpo-Texas.com


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## KenpoTess (Mar 4, 2003)

I was of the barefoot group too until I got my Century shoes.. and I agree on both sides.. the shoes are good for me as I had a paralyzed foot from a car accident up until last year.. and they give me support that I need 

for most beginners I think barefoot is best.. Learning to blade the foot properly and for the instructor's to be able to see the student's  foot position is important.

It took some getting used to the smaller sole in my pair but I'm very comfortable kicking, sparring etc.  Plus at my age it gives me some added protection from boo boos *G*


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## Elfan (Mar 4, 2003)

I prefer barefoot in general, the first thing I do when I get home is take off my shoes and socks and keep them off.  However, I do wear shoes often (barefoot in the city? icky!) and reconize the value in training in them sometimes.  To get the maximum benifit from this it would make sense to me to wear shoes like what you normally wear, not fancy "martial art" shoes.


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## hatamotoyoshi (Mar 4, 2003)

very interesting views on shoes.
up here in canada its not fit for human habitation from end of nov.to start of may.(just my opinion of course; all those crazed hockey players love it!)
we train in a church gym, no mats, and i'm going beg my instructor to let me have a pair of training shoes.
though i think i have a very slim chance as he is a rugged traditionalist and a crazed hockey player!


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## KenpoTess (Mar 4, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Elfan _
> *I prefer barefoot in general, the first thing I do when I get home is take off my shoes and socks and keep them off.  However, I do wear shoes often (barefoot in the city? icky!) and reconize the value in training in them sometimes.  To get the maximum benifit from this it would make sense to me to wear shoes like what you normally wear, not fancy "martial art" shoes. *



When I am out and about and practicing outside of the studio.. I am either in sneakers, or my 'kenpo shoes'  so it makes not much difference what I wear.  I had heels on this weekend and even fiddled around with tecs in those.. if you know your stuff.. I can't see much difference in what shoes you wear.  The Fancy "martial art" shoe is softer.. and I would much rather have that on when I kick or am kicked.. or blocking.. than a hard soled heavy leather shoe


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## jules (Mar 4, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Jill666 _
> *I usually prefer to train barefoot, but if we are going self-defense or sparring, I'll go to shoes. I have calloused feet, so I'm quite comfortable doing kata barefoot. *





            Ditto!  However in our school it is optional to each individual.:asian:


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## Kirk (Mar 4, 2003)

It's optional in our school.  Some do, some don't.  I typically
wear my shoes at any and all workouts.  Then take them off for
testing!  

When I first started, I didn't wear shoes, cause my thinking was,
what if you're attacked on the beach? by the pool?  you're in bed,
and see an intruder in your home?  But then I figured, for every
one barefoot scenario, there's a thousand shoed scenarios.  If
it comes down to having to defend myself barefoot, I'll take a
broken foot if need be.


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## stacks (Mar 4, 2003)

shoes are aloud in my studio providing they are a martial art training shoe (otomix ect.) there is the cleaniness, and if there is a injury the shoe will hold the foot and/or the blood in. however if you decide to go barefoot as is the traditional way your are welcome too. I agree with being able to see proper foot placement and angle, but those (like myself, broke my right ankle twice, once at my previous job than again 4 years later in the dojo) who require the ankle support. taking your shoes off before a fight dangerous, use the shoe as a better striker than a barefoot . 

stacks


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## Elfan (Mar 5, 2003)

> _Originally posted by KenpoTess _
> *When I am out and about and practicing outside of the studio.. I am either in sneakers, or my 'kenpo shoes'  so it makes not much difference what I wear.  I had heels on this weekend and even fiddled around with tecs in those.. if you know your stuff.. I can't see much difference in what shoes you wear.  The Fancy "martial art" shoe is softer.. and I would much rather have that on when I kick or am kicked.. or blocking.. than a hard soled heavy leather shoe  *



Good point about the similarity between those 'martial arts shoes' and sneakers.  I supose if you normaly wear sneakers its not that big of a deal. However, I've seen some prety funky footwear.  If you regularly wear crazy 3 inch heals I think it would be much more of an issue.


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## KenpoTess (Mar 5, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Elfan _
> *Good point about the similarity between those 'martial arts shoes' and sneakers.  I supose if you normaly wear sneakers its not that big of a deal. However, I've seen some prety funky footwear.  If you regularly wear crazy 3 inch heals I think it would be much more of an issue. *



I can hardly walk in those silly heels.. hahaa.. nope .. I think they were invented by men for Men and men should wear them~!!! *G*

Give me comfort and I'm happy.. flats.. or no shoes at all~!
I'm always barefoot at home ~!


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## hatamotoyoshi (Mar 5, 2003)

so kenpotess and jules,
which shoe is best value for the buck?
i'm kinda leaning toward otomix.
whaddya think?


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## headkick (Mar 5, 2003)

> _Originally posted by hatamotoyoshi _
> *so kenpotess and jules,
> which shoe is best value for the buck?
> i'm kinda leaning toward otomix.
> whaddya think? *



I would recommend Asics over Otomix.  I've owned both.  I tore up the Otomix.  I don't like the way they the sole is attached.  The Asics, for me, are much better.  I got mine from footlocker.com for $30.00 (US), which was than I ever saw Otomix.  Asics has been making mat shoes (wrestling) for a long time.

R


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## tarabos (Mar 5, 2003)

> _Originally posted by hatamotoyoshi _
> *so kenpotess and jules,
> which shoe is best value for the buck?
> i'm kinda leaning toward otomix.
> whaddya think? *



ottomix....aisics....lol i don't know...i just wanted to respond because i thought your username was funny as hell....


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## Sifu DangeRuss (Mar 5, 2003)

Shoes are entirely optional in my school.   However I LIVE in wrestling shoes if I don't absolutely HAVE to wear something more formal.  However, I highly reccomend that you invest in a good sports insole as they don't offer much (okay ANY) cushion. 

   I also don't understand why it would be any more difficult to analyze foot positioning, or even toe positioning in shoes like Wrestling shoes, as they are narrow, (roughly foot-shaped), and flexible enough to even curl toes back to kick with the ball of the foot?  My students have almost all adopted the wrestling shoes because I choose to train with them.  I have not noticed any particular difficulties correcting stances or any other obviously bad habits?  

   Are you sure someone didn't sell you Clown Shoes and just tell you that they were wrestling shoes?  Those might be problematic.  Also those big red balls are NOT standard issue nose protectors !!!


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## hatamotoyoshi (Mar 5, 2003)

asics it is i'll try footlocker up here in the great white north.
as you may or may not know 30$ US is about 2 zillion canadian LOL
sifu dangeruss , i 'll try wrestling shoes if the asics don't work out.
thanks folks


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## KenpoTess (Mar 5, 2003)

> _Originally posted by hatamotoyoshi _
> *so kenpotess and jules,
> which shoe is best value for the buck?
> i'm kinda leaning toward otomix.
> whaddya think? *



I am not pleased with my Century shoe's soleas it started breaking and ripping up from the leather a few weeks into wear..that and the bottom insole keeps slipping.
 Some of our students really like their Asics shoe.. been wearing them for over a year and nothing wrong.. as I examined it.. they seem to have a great arch support and a real sole.. not just glued on seperate.  So I would go that route for my next one.. Yeah they are probably $20.00 more than Century or Tigerclaw brand.. but in the long run.. well worth it


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## Seig (Mar 5, 2003)

I have tried both the Century martial Arts shoe and the Tiger Claw martial arts shoe.  I am not particularly pleased with either.  On my Tiger Claw shoes, the sole seperated, of course I did have them for three years.  I replaced them with the Century shoe, MY pair seemed to hold up fine, so far, but the insole in one of them keeps sliding around.  I may try asics next.


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## Michael Billings (Mar 5, 2003)

Has anyone tried the Adidas martial arts shoes yet?  I want a report.

I have Otomix cross-trainer high martial arts shoes currently. They are not quite a high top, but I have been known to twist an ankle at a camp by stepping in a prarie dog, rattlesnake, rabbit, or gopher hole.  

I wore a pair of Nikes for many, many years, once I got the soles to give up some of thier traction.  You have to be able to pivot when you kick or the supporting knee can seriously tear.  I had them probably 8 years, so I did not know anything about other shoes designed specifically for martial arts, excluding wrestling or boxing shoes.

-Michael,
Kenpo-Texas.com


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## Nightingale (Mar 5, 2003)

personally, when I am required to wear something on my feet during training, it is usually a ballet slipper, because its almost as good as being barefoot.  very flexible, but good, solid suede or rubber on the bottom for traction, plus,  my instuctor can still get a good idea of my foot positions.  Works well for tournaments too, where the floor is usually filthy.  I cut off the laces that make the silly little bow in the front and run a good piece of elastic through the shoe instead.

I prefer to train barefoot, but will wear street shoes every so often so I 
can get a feel for it.


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## Michael Billings (Mar 5, 2003)

I am sure I would look precious in a pair of those at 220 lbs.

-Michael
Kenpo-Texas.com


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## Ginsu (Mar 5, 2003)

Mr Billings,
I wore Adidas and Otomix for years. I prefer the Otomix as they are better constructed and do as you noted offer some ankle support. The Adidas shoes held up well and are just as light weight if not a little lighter, however they are not as durable or as comfortable as the Otomix shoes I have worn and I never found a pair that was more of a high top(not sure if they make one or not). All of the Adidas I wore were low tops and the soles all seemed to have a bit of a tacky sticky feel.

Hope that helps sir.

_Ginsu_


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## Nightingale (Mar 5, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Michael Billings _
> *I am sure I would look precious in a pair of those at 220 lbs.
> 
> -Michael
> Kenpo-Texas.com *




They come in black.


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## Ginsu (Mar 5, 2003)

Ok so I was wrong they do make a high top.









_Ginsu_


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## Michael Billings (Mar 5, 2003)

Both of you.  One of my students bought the black adidas and I could not give her any feedback on the quality of the shoe, or make a recommendation.

Oss,
-Michael
Kenpo-Texas.com


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## KanoLives (Mar 6, 2003)

I'm all about barefoot. But I have practiced in shoes as well. At my school it doesn't matter as long as you are learning techs properly. Personally I feel if you could do something barefoot then you should be able to do the same thing with shoes on.


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## headkick (Mar 6, 2003)

> _Originally posted by hatamotoyoshi _
> *asics it is i'll try footlocker up here in the great white north.
> as you may or may not know 30$ US is about 2 zillion canadian LOL
> sifu dangeruss , i 'll try wrestling shoes if the asics don't work out.
> thanks folks *



The Asics I wear are wrestling shoes, BTW.  The one downside might be the bright yellow sole.  It gives the kick away :rofl: 

R


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## Roland (Mar 6, 2003)

I have had two pairs now, both great, wore the first ones right out in about 2 /12 years, I still have them as a back up pair though. This second pair is a little higher priced, but is wearing even better, been 1 1/2 years, look almost as good as new!

I totally agree with GoldenDragon here though. I have seen a lot of students whose stances, and foot work have taken a turn for the worse with wearing shoes.
It seems to happen to the beginer belts a lot easier.

Maybe everyone needs to build up a certain amount of sensitvity before going to shoes.


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## Chronuss (Mar 6, 2003)

my instructor teaches Kenpo as a general studies gym credit at the local college, and going barefoot on the floors are a bit unnerving...empty soda cans, pens and pencils, opposable thumbs, all kinds of nonsense on the floors.  so the shoes are really nice to have when assisting.


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## Seig (Mar 7, 2003)

> _Originally posted by headkick _
> *The Asics I wear are wrestling shoes, BTW.  The one downside might be the bright yellow sole.  It gives the kick away :rofl:
> 
> R *


Just write "Duck" on the sole


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## jules (Mar 8, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Seig _
> *Just write "Duck" on the sole *


 :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


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## hatamotoyoshi (Mar 8, 2003)

thanks headkicker,
the yellow soles won't be a problem the way i kick,
most opponents go get a coffee and come back when they figure 
i've got my leg up.LOL


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## Greggers69 (Mar 9, 2003)

At my Dojo it doesn't really matter.  I have trained both barefoot and with wrestling shoes.  I prefer the shoes at class and barefoot at home.  At home just so i can make sure i kick with the balls of my foot on my bag.  Hurts if you don't do it correctly.  And my shoes are about 6 years old.  Some highschool wrestling has been done in them and then started kenpo about two months ago.


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## D.Cobb (Mar 9, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Kirk _
> *LOL!!! I'm gonna take this foot, and put it on that side of your
> head, and there's nothing you're gonna be able to do about it!
> 
> *



Dammit!!!!
I still haven't ever seen that friggin movie....

--Dave


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## headkick (Mar 10, 2003)

> _Originally posted by hatamotoyoshi _
> *thanks headkicker,
> the yellow soles won't be a problem the way i kick,
> most opponents go get a coffee and come back when they figure
> i've got my leg up.LOL *



Well, I am much the same.  Headkick is strictly an ironic name.  And size 13's displace a lot of air, so much like the fly, you can feel it coming before it gets there.   

R


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## headkick (Mar 10, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Seig _
> *Just write "Duck" on the sole *



 Given how high I actually kick, maybe "Goose" would be better.   

R


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## stacks (Mar 10, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Greggers69 _
> *At my Dojo it doesn't really matter.  I have trained both barefoot and with wrestling shoes.  I prefer the shoes at class and barefoot at home.  At home just so i can make sure i kick with the balls of my foot on my bag.  Hurts if you don't do it correctly.  And my shoes are about 6 years old.  Some highschool wrestling has been done in them and then started kenpo about two months ago. *



I agree with you, that going barefoot on the bag is great for concentration on foot angle and technic. I take my shoes off periodicly but I put them back on when the ache begins. I see you are new to Kenpo, I hope you enjoy your journey as much as we all have enjoyed our training 

stacks:cheers:


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## Kroy (Apr 8, 2003)

I think people should train in both bare feet and shoes, as well they should try practicing in their Doc Martins, boots, runners, dress shoes and yes even they're slippers. You never know when your gonna have to defend yourself.


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## Goldendragon7 (Apr 8, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Kroy _*
> I think people should train in both bare feet and shoes, as well they should try practicing in their Doc Martins, boots, runners, dress shoes and yes even they're slippers. You never know when your gonna have to defend yourself.
> *



The "2nd" consideration {Infinite Insights Book 1, Chapter 11, page 101} that is necessary to logically take measures to become victorious ~

:asian:


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## Chicago Green Dragon (Apr 8, 2003)

In my current studio I wear gym shoes. But, in many of my previous studios and dojo's we left our shoes on the shoe rack before we entered the practice area.


Chicago Green
Dragon   :asian:


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## KenpoGirl (Apr 8, 2003)

I currently go bare foot, but after 2hrs of training my feet and ankels are killing me.  I hobble out of the school.

I intend to by some wrestling shoes to use in the future for a little more support.  Might even get some orthotics if the shoes don't help.


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## headkick (Apr 8, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Kroy _
> *I think people should train in both bare feet and shoes, as well they should try practicing in their Doc Martins, boots, runners, dress shoes and yes even they're slippers. You never know when your gonna have to defend yourself. *



Beware the pink bunny slipper of death!  :rofl: :rofl: 

My college roommate had some big, furry king kong slippers that roared when the left foot stepped down.  Funny as hell when your drunk.


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## Chicago Green Dragon (Apr 8, 2003)

hahahaha got to get me a pair of those shoes......

Roar

Chicago Green
Dragon :asian:


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