# size and traditional jujutsu



## Necro (Mar 24, 2010)

i was wondering, how big of an impact is size (and weight?) in jujutsu, the reason i ask is because i'm tiny (for a guy) at around 5'2 (160cm) so if i ever got into a fight chances are the enemy will be bigger than me usually by quite a bit (even my younger sister is taller than me T_T) from what i was told my one of the teachers that for throws being smaller was an advantage since you don't have to lower your center of gravity as much as a taller person would but that's only throws :\


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## Chris Parker (Mar 24, 2010)

Hi Necro,

Well, one of the things about jujutsu (particularly if we are talking the more tradtional systems, such as Hontai Yoshin Ryu which was one of your option I believe), is that it is designed to enable size to become much less of a factor. The ideas centre around leverage, using laws of physics such as inertia to generate power and affect the techniques. To gve you an idea, Sokkaku Takeda, former head of Daito Ryu, was less that 5 feet tall, Ueshiba Sensei of Aikido was right on 5 foot himself, and they are not the only ones. The Japanese race in general tends towards the smaller stature, and I have found that when teaching a number of techniques it is actually the bigger guys who have struggled with the way the techniques are designed.

In short (oh, bad pun, I know), size is far less of an issue than you may think. You will just need to know how to use your size (and your opponents!) to your advantage!


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## Necro (Mar 25, 2010)

speaking of japanese size how come when i went to japan everyone (even them damned school girls!) were taller than me! grrrr!

thanks for the quick reply!


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## Chris Parker (Mar 25, 2010)

Ha, I can't answer that one... but I can say that there was, or still is, a suit of armour in the Tokyo Museum (from memory) that apparently looks like it was made for a 12 year old boy (such suits are made, for various festivals, or for young samurai), but it was actually made for a fully grown man. Don't stress on the size thing, use it to your advantage (yes, even with the Japanese school girls, provided you aren't much older yourself....)!


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## lklawson (Mar 25, 2010)

Necro said:


> i was wondering, how big of an impact is size (and weight?) in jujutsu,


Mass and strength always matter when it comes to fighting.  Anyone saying different is either selling something or naive.

However, skill can often overcome the natural advantages of mass and strength.  How much skill is required is a complex, unpredictable mish-mash of countless variables, mixed with more than a bit of "lady luck."



> the reason i ask is because i'm tiny (for a guy) at around 5'2 (160cm) so if i ever got into a fight chances are the enemy will be bigger than me usually by quite a bit (even my younger sister is taller than me T_T) from what i was told my one of the teachers that for throws being smaller was an advantage since you don't have to lower your center of gravity as much as a taller person would but that's only throws :\


It's true that some throws favor a slightly lower center of gravity.  Hip-throws, in particular, are good examples.  But there are a lot of other elements that are equally, or more, important.  Timing, entry, distance, form, balance-break, etc. for instance.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## Necro (Mar 25, 2010)

yea i realized strength of course matters but one of the reasons i took jujutsu was from what i had read due to the size benefit compared to say more striking orientated arts like taekwondo.


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## JWLuiza (Mar 25, 2010)

As Asian diets become more "Americanized" their sizes are approaching the same distribution as Westerners.

Just an FYI.


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## Quarterstaff (Mar 25, 2010)

Necro said:


> i was wondering, how big of an impact is size (and weight?) in jujutsu, the reason i ask is because i'm tiny (for a guy) at around 5'2 (160cm) so if i ever got into a fight chances are the enemy will be bigger than me usually by quite a bit (even my younger sister is taller than me T_T) from what i was told my one of the teachers that for throws being smaller was an advantage since you don't have to lower your center of gravity as much as a taller person would but that's only throws :\


 
Size is hugely influential in Jiu Jitsu. Techniques vary significantly depending on the height and weight of your attacker.

However just because the techniques change does not mean that they become less effective.

"It is not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog".


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## Bruno@MT (Mar 26, 2010)

Chris Parker said:


> Ha, I can't answer that one... but I can say that there was, or still is, a suit of armour in the Tokyo Museum (from memory) that apparently looks like it was made for a 12 year old boy (such suits are made, for various festivals, or for young samurai), but it was actually made for a fully grown man. Don't stress on the size thing, use it to your advantage (yes, even with the Japanese school girls, provided you aren't much older yourself....)!



+1

Tanemura sensei is reportedly only 151 cm which is a full head shorter than me. He is also twice my age, and I am fairly certain I am stronger than him in a 'lifting heavy objects' kind of way.

I am also fairly certain that he could rip my head from my torso, make my elbows bend the wrong way or do something equally creative and painful before I could as much as lay a finger on him.

Size and strength matter, but that difference can be overcome by skill and experience.


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## zDom (Mar 26, 2010)

There are inherent advantages and disadvantages for both smaller and larger people.

The trick is to find out how to exploit your advantages and mitigate your opponent's; how to mitigate your disadvantages and exploit your opponent's.

One thing you have going for you if you are very short (height challenged?) is that you can focus your training on dealing with larger opponents as that is almost always what you face.

Likewise, a really big guy can focus on facing smaller people.

At 6' I have to consider BOTH possibilities and consequently have to divide my focus between what works against smaller folk AND bigger folk


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## Shifu Steve (Mar 26, 2010)

I train(ed) in traditional Ju-Jitsu and I can say that center of gravity, leverage, balance (and the subsequent breaking of balance), distraction and technique are your weapons and that size could be an advantage or disadvantage depending on your perspective and application of technique.  Your size can work for you not just because of a lower center of gravity but because a lot of the moves in traditional Ju-Jitsu are predicated on distraction.  You're probably an unassuming fellow, right? Well good for you.  In a self defense situation most larger opponents will encounter what's called a "mental balance break" if you apply technique where they expect you to curl into a ball.  Size can work against the larger person in that it can create a false sense of confidence.  Good luck with your training, Ju-Jitsu is very rewarding in my experience.


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## teekin (Apr 21, 2010)

At some point, no matter how clean your technique, mass and raw power will overwhelm even the best technician.  
 This is why men and women do not compete against one another.  ( except in equestrian events. )
lori


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## zDom (Apr 22, 2010)

Grendel308 said:


> At some point, no matter how clean your technique, mass and raw power will overwhelm even the best technician.
> This is why men and women do not compete against one another.  ( except in equestrian events. )
> lori



I disagree.

It doesn't matter how large the engine is if there isn't an effective transmission of that power.

I'd prefer to fight a huge poor fighter over a small skilled one any day of the week and twice on Sundays.

Sufficient skill can overcome any size+power disadvantage.


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## David43515 (Apr 23, 2010)

zDom said:


> I disagree.
> 
> It doesn't matter how large the engine is if there isn't an effective transmission of that power.
> 
> ...


 
And with _sufficient _gun powder you can blow up _any_ building. So if my 12 yr daughter get`s cornered by a 6'4" 300lbs steroid freak she win the day if her skill is "sufficient"?  *"ANY" *is a strong word. Engineers have a saying, "The difference between theory and reality is that in theory, there is no difference."


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## teekin (Apr 23, 2010)

Sir, if you weigh 175 lbs and had a to fight a 425 sumo what do you think your chances are in a ground war? If he gets top mount just what are you going to do? If I am 90lbs ( I'm a bit thin at the moment) and some of the guys I work with are as big as 260 that is the ratio. Even if I catch a submission I can not finish it as the physics of our bodies make it impossible. Thier forearms is longer and thicker than my thighs. They are just too strong if I do make a mistake for me to regain control. 
 The more skillful you are the further you can push that envelope but at some point you will get overerwhelmed. Think Brock Lesner and Frank Mir 2. Would Cyborg stand up against Lesner? Or get pounded to mush even though she is Far better technically?


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## zDom (Apr 23, 2010)

David43515 said:


> And with _sufficient _gun powder you can blow up _any_ building. So if my 12 yr daughter get`s cornered by a 6'4" 300lbs steroid freak she win the day if her skill is "sufficient"?  *"ANY" *is a strong word. Engineers have a saying, "The difference between theory and reality is that in theory, there is no difference."



Sufficient skill would enable her to keep from getting cornered.

"On any given Sunday ..."


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## Danzan (Apr 30, 2010)

Your Teacher is correct with the center comment, My comment to you would be to not be so concerned with your height or the other person's.
What you will be using most will be your mind. Train this well and the rest will
fall right into place for you. Also, Enjoy the journey,
Best of Luck.


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## Bruno@MT (Apr 30, 2010)

Grendel308 said:


> Sir, if you weigh 175 lbs and had a to fight a 425 sumo what do you think your chances are in a ground war? If he gets top mount just what are you going to do?



Actually this is almost exactly how Royce Gracie won against former Yokozuna Akebono. He let Akebono get top mount and get a wrist lock. Ground work is where sumo wrestlers are weakest because sumo doesn't have any ground fighting.

That said, Royce had made this strategy in advance, and you can see him do it perfectly. He made sure Akebono didn't get hold while standing because that could have been fatal. Instead he made an effort to get himself and the fight to the ground asap.

[yt]POJ2T023M4I[/yt]


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## Gaius Julius Caesar (May 4, 2010)

The Cyborg/Lessner analogy was good for a sport match, there would be no way, folling MMA rules for her to survive that. Rules make physical prowess more important.

 In the Street she might have a chance if she plays possom, let's him get close and confident and then do something involveing the grabbing and jerking of genitalia and slamming the palm into the face and diggin some fingers at the eyes and then stomping a knee.

 If she squares off with him, she is 98/9% dead.


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