# Taekwondo stay in Olympics 2020!



## Markku P (Feb 12, 2013)

So Taekwondo stay and Wrestling might be out!


http://www.olympic.org/news/ioc-executive-board-recommends-25-core-sports-for-2020-games/190772


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## andyjeffries (Feb 12, 2013)

I would even phrase it differently.  Taekwondo is in and wrestling is out (not might be).  Wrestling has to apply/present to be included in the next IOC session, but for the moment, as it stands, they are out of the Olympics.

I think this is great news for Taekwondo!


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## Tez3 (Feb 12, 2013)

It could be difficult after 2020 if Karate or Wushu are chosen as the alternative to wrestling though as to non martial artists alongwith TKD these are all very similiar.


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## Markku P (Feb 12, 2013)

I think they will select wrestling as official sport. This is more like a warning, they must change rules and make it more audience friendly. ( and refereeing must be better )


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## Tez3 (Feb 12, 2013)

Markku P said:


> I think they will select wrestling as official sport. This is more like a warning, they must change rules and make it more audience friendly. ( and refereeing must be better )




Trouble is that's what they have done with a number of sports like Judo and TKD and changed it for the worse.


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## Rumy73 (Feb 12, 2013)

Tez3 said:


> Trouble is that's what they have done with a number of sports like Judo and TKD and changed it for the worse.



Agreed, 100%. TKD has decided to make the sport "flashier" by rewarding head and spinning kicks with more points.


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## SahBumNimRush (Feb 12, 2013)

Glad to see TKD remain.


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## ATC (Feb 12, 2013)

I think it is a good day for TKD. Yes it is not core TKD but it does and will drive business to school owners. And if you teach traditional as well as have a program for the sport side separated from your traditional your school will be the better for it.


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## Twin Fist (Feb 12, 2013)

the olympics were the worst thing to happen to the MARTIAL ART of TKD, and this decision is a shame for wrestling.

an out and out shame

and dont bother trying to to tell me how wrong i am, because IMO i am not.

not in the slightest

olympic TKD is a joke, and needs to die in a fire, IN MY OPINION


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## Markku P (Feb 12, 2013)

I think this was the greatest thing for taekwondo, Today's rules are much better and fights are much more fun to watch


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## Gorilla (Feb 12, 2013)

Old Reliable!!!!:flame:




Twin Fist said:


> the olympics were the worst thing to happen to the MARTIAL ART of TKD, and this decision is a shame for wrestling.
> 
> an out and out shame
> 
> ...


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## ATC (Feb 12, 2013)

Twin Fist said:


> IN MY OPINION


Thank you.


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## Rumy73 (Feb 12, 2013)

Twin Fist said:


> the olympics were the worst thing to happen to the MARTIAL ART of TKD, and this decision is a shame for wrestling.
> 
> an out and out shame
> 
> ...



I agree to a point. TKD's olympic connection has bloated the martial sport aspect of things. Olympic style is quite rigorous but the newer rules are for the gymnasts among us. Flashy kicks may be exciting to watch but are a poor example of TKD's sum total.


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## Rumy73 (Feb 12, 2013)

ATC said:


> I think it is a good day for TKD. Yes it is not core TKD but it does and will drive business to school owners. And if you teach traditional as well as have a program for the sport side separated from your traditional your school will be the better for it.



This is very true. The TV presence has fueled the popularity. It sends an unbalanced message about TKD.


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## Markku P (Feb 13, 2013)

Rumy73 said:


> This is very true. The TV presence has fueled the popularity. It sends an unbalanced message about TKD.



Better than nothing at all


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## Mauthos (Feb 13, 2013)

It is a real shame for wrestling, but it is good that TKD remains.  However, I would like to see an overhaul of the TKD rules and scoring system.

I have a lot of non-martial artist friends, as I am sure all of you guys do, but I feel that the way TKD is conducted at the Olympics shows martial arts in a bad light.  A lot of my friends consider TKD in the Olympics to be the bench mark or base of all other martial arts and no matter how you explain the differences and complexities surrounding martial arts of differing styles, it is sometimes impossible to change their minds. 

Question in point, 'How stupid is it to perform a jump spinning head kick to score more points even if you land on your ***? In the street that isn't practical.'

Fair point in all honesty, however, no matter how many times I explained that although I agreed with his view, street fighting is different to rules based competition.  His answer, 'Well I don't see the point of doing any martial art if that is the way you guys fight.'

And no matter how much I explained that training for competition is completely different from training to fight realistically or for a SD perspective, his mind was made up after watching competitor after competitor fight the same way in the Olympics.

It can be frustrating, I have trained in TKD for 2 years previously and alongside the multitudes of other styles I have had the privilege to train in, you think he would understand my point of view due to my experience. But no, he believes Olympic TKD is the way all martial artists fight, he may be completely wrong, but others share the same belief.

Introducing Wushu  or traditional Karate may be a good way to go in dispelling this myth, but if the rules for TKD were tweaked slightly, for instance, only scoring a technique that is performed correctly leaving the attacker in a solid safe position after the attack (such as is the case for Wado Ryu (for instance a reverse punch may only score a full point if the attacker's stance is correct, knee not dropping to the floor etc)).

But hey, these are only my opinions, would I like to see wrestling stay, yes.  Do I want to see TKD go, no, but I do think there is a vast room for improvement.


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## Markku P (Feb 13, 2013)

Mauthos said:


> It is a real shame for wrestling, but it is good that TKD remains.  However, I would like to see an overhaul of the TKD rules and scoring system.



I think the main reason why Taekwondo stay in Olympics are our new rules so no need to change. Wrestling..they have made mistake with their rules and really poor judging.


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## Jaeimseu (Feb 13, 2013)

Like them or not, taekwondo's ruleset is what makes it unique, which is the point. The new rules are intended to make the match more exciting to watch. Athletes are encouraged to attempt more difficult techniques, not be more realistic. I appreciate the display of skill and the continuing development of the sport.


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## Gorilla (Feb 13, 2013)

All my non-martial arts friends found the Olympics exciting...many watched because my kids do the sport and quite a few have put their kids in TKD.  All of them seem to be able to understand the difference between the sport and self defense.  They find the spinning kicks to be very exciting...allot of them watched Servet Tazegul on Utube and have become fans!

Lets face it the 2012 Olympics were a big success for TKD which is why it remained in the Olympics.  Great fights and sold out crowds.  It was a big success. Looks good for Karate and Japan as the host for the Olympics.  They moved out wrestling to bring in another combat sport.  Karate will bring allot of coverage in Japan...I think it puts Karate as the front runner for inclusion in 2020.


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## Rumy73 (Feb 13, 2013)

Jaeimseu said:


> Like them or not, taekwondo's ruleset is what makes it unique, which is the point. The new rules are intended to make the match more exciting to watch. Athletes are encouraged to attempt more difficult techniques, not be more realistic. I appreciate the display of skill and the continuing development of the sport.



In Olympic TKD, the skill set and gymnasticism (made up word) is impressive. However, I agree with a previous poster: It is problematic to allow a player to score with a spinning/jumping kick and then fall to the ground without consequence. First of all, the technique is incomplete. Secondly, it is kind of like cheating but not. Either the score should not count if a player falls to the ground or the defender should be able to hit the person on the ground. Promoting TKD by creating rules for flashier maneuvers speaks of modern marketing techniques, rather than solid TKD techniques. I do not fault the players who use the rules to his/her favor, but I do find valid points of criticism in extolling flash over solid execution. Just imagine of gymnasts did not have to worry about landing correctly, think of all the wild flips he/she could execute?


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## Jaeimseu (Feb 13, 2013)

Rumy73 said:


> In Olympic TKD, the skill set and gymnasticism (made up word) is impressive. However, I agree with a previous poster: It is problematic to allow a player to score with a spinning/jumping kick and then fall to the ground without consequence. First of all, the technique is incomplete. Secondly, it is kind of like cheating but not. Either the score should not count if a player falls to the ground or the defender should be able to hit the person on the ground. Promoting TKD by creating rules for flashier maneuvers speaks of modern marketing techniques, rather than solid TKD techniques. I do not fault the players who use the rules to his/her favor, but I do find valid points of criticism in extolling flash over solid execution. Just imagine of gymnasts did not have to worry about landing correctly, think of all the wild flips he/she could execute?



I personally don't like that particular rule, either. The rule used to be no point if the player fell down, though a KO would still result in a victory. I would have thought that the referee could give a warning or take points off the board for "intentional" falling to avoid fighting, though. To me, there's a big difference between accidentally falling and purposely going down. Gymnasts have to stick the landing, but the other gymnasts aren't trying to kick them while they are performing their acrobatics.


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## Gnarlie (Feb 13, 2013)

Rumy73 said:


> In Olympic TKD, the skill set and gymnasticism (made up word) is impressive. However, I agree with a previous poster: It is problematic to allow a player to score with a spinning/jumping kick and then fall to the ground without consequence. First of all, the technique is incomplete. Secondly, it is kind of like cheating but not. Either the score should not count if a player falls to the ground or the defender should be able to hit the person on the ground. Promoting TKD by creating rules for flashier maneuvers speaks of modern marketing techniques, rather than solid TKD techniques. I do not fault the players who use the rules to his/her favor, but I do find valid points of criticism in extolling flash over solid execution. Just imagine of gymnasts did not have to worry about landing correctly, think of all the wild flips he/she could execute?



WTF rules on intentional falling and avoiding the match are pretty clear. Intentional falling incurs a half point penalty with a full point deductible for avoiding the match where the player repeatedly falls intentionally. This two rules and their interpretations are still current under the published WTF competition rules.

Additionally, points scored with the illegal falling technique can be invalidated.

Falling due to incidental contact with the opponent mid technique is not punishable, however. It's down to the centre referee to make that call whether the fall is intentional or incidental, and not many seem to deduct in my experience, so as not to interrupt the flow of the match and the entertainment.

Gnarlie


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## ETinCYQX (Mar 3, 2013)

I'm really enjoying olympic TKD the last few years. 2012 was an excellent year. 

I see recommendations for a 10-point-must scoring system, and I have to say I don't think that's compatible with the Olympics. even Olympic boxing does not use a 10 point must system.



Twin Fist said:


> the olympics were the worst thing to happen to the MARTIAL ART of TKD, and this decision is a shame for wrestling.
> 
> an out and out shame
> 
> ...



Come on, you don't need to sugar coat it for us. How do you really feel?:uhyeah:


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## Manny (Mar 4, 2013)

Scoring a point doing a poor technike for example a spinin hook kick to the head falling down when performin it IMHO will not score at all but only if the other gay goes down in a full Knock Out. The same for the hogu points I really dislike to see TKDoings performing a blitz of peet chaguis and then fall to the ground and one or two points are awarded by the e-equipment.

Manny


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## Markku P (Mar 4, 2013)

Manny said:


> Scoring a point doing a poor technike for example a spinin hook kick to the head falling down when performin it IMHO will not score at all but only if the other gay goes down in a full Knock Out. The same for the hogu points I really dislike to see TKDoings performing a blitz of peet chaguis and then fall to the ground and one or two points are awarded by the e-equipment.
> 
> Manny




I didn't get this. Do you want to see more knock outs with spinning kicks? I personally feel that rules are working well and many fights are now fun to watch.


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## Markku P (Mar 4, 2013)

Rumy73 said:


> However, I agree with a previous poster: It is problematic to allow a player to score with a spinning/jumping kick and then fall to the ground without consequence. First of all, the technique is incomplete.



The technique is not incomplete if a fighter will score points


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## Metal (Mar 4, 2013)

I like how the current ruleset makes things waaay easier.

And Human failure as well as inequity aren't that much of an issue anymore.

If 'proper technique' or a minimum intensity for headkicks would come into play then it would be a step back. It would bring us back to the days where two people were fighting and in the end the Korean would win. ;-)


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## Daniel Sullivan (Mar 4, 2013)

Mauthos said:


> It is a real shame for wrestling, but it is good that TKD remains.  However, I would like to see an overhaul of the TKD rules and scoring system.
> 
> I have a lot of non-martial artist friends, as I am sure all of you guys do, but *I feel that the way TKD is conducted at the Olympics shows martial arts in a bad light*.  A lot of my friends consider TKD in the Olympics to be the bench mark or base of all other martial arts and no matter how you explain the differences and complexities surrounding martial arts of differing styles, it is sometimes impossible to change their minds.
> 
> Question in point, 'How stupid is it to perform a jump spinning head kick to score more points even if you land on your ***? In the street that isn't practical.'


Outside of internet forums, I never get this kind of response from people about WTF taekwondo.  People that I know from various MA styles all acknowledge that in any MA competition, techniques and target areas are going to be limited in some way and that the art, whatever it may be, has techniques outside of the competition rule set.  They also acknowledge that within the rule set, players will execute their techniques in ways that take advantage of the rules, safety equipment, and in the case of combat arts that utilize weapons, the nature of competition weapons.



Mauthos said:


> Fair point in all honesty, however, no matter how many times I explained that although I agreed with his view, street fighting is different to rules based competition.  His answer, 'Well I don't see the point of doing any martial art if that is the way you guys fight.'
> 
> And no matter how much I explained that training for competition is completely different from training to fight realistically or for a SD perspective, his mind was made up after watching competitor after competitor fight the same way in the Olympics.
> 
> It can be frustrating, I have trained in TKD for 2 years previously and alongside the multitudes of other styles I have had the privilege to train in, you think he would understand my point of view due to my experience. But no, he believes Olympic TKD is the way all martial artists fight, he may be completely wrong, but others share the same belief.


I no longer bother explaining to people who are intent upon not getting it, either on the web or in person.  Such people are intentionally ignorant.  Given how few people actually see taekwondo in the Olympics (I don't recall it being televised at anytime people are awake, if at all), it is rather surprising that anyone would think that Olympic TKD is how all martial arts styles fight.  Especially with judo, boxing, and up until now, wrestling all in the same Olympics.




Mauthos said:


> Introducing Wushu  or traditional Karate may be a good way to go in dispelling this myth, but if the rules for TKD were tweaked slightly, for instance, only scoring a technique that is performed correctly leaving the attacker in a solid safe position after the attack (such as is the case for Wado Ryu (for instance a reverse punch may only score a full point if the attacker's stance is correct, knee not dropping to the floor etc)).
> 
> But hey, these are only my opinions, would I like to see wrestling stay, yes.  Do I want to see TKD go, no, but I do think there is a vast room for improvement.


Actually, making pumsae part of Olympic competition (it is part of WTF competition but is not in the Olympics) would go a lot further in addressing the gap between what you see in kyorugi and what the art as a whole contains.


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## ATC (Mar 4, 2013)

Daniel Sullivan said:


> I no longer bother explaining to people who are intent upon not getting it, either on the web or in person.  Such people are intentionally ignorant.



I am right with you on that!


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## Twin Fist (Mar 4, 2013)

maybe they get it, but dont agree. I understand every excuse you pro olympic types come up with, i just think they are all BS and the so called "sport" is just so much crap


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## Gorilla (Mar 4, 2013)

Twin Fist said:


> maybe they get it, but dont agree. I understand every excuse you pro olympic types come up with, i just think they are all BS and the so called "sport" is just so much crap



"pro olympic types"... BS...so called "sport"...I defer to you expertise on crap....You seem very good @ talking "crap"...I am sure that you are an expert @ recognizing it...form your mountain on high!


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## Twin Fist (Mar 4, 2013)

personal insults are a violation of the TOS 

i didnt say anything personal to anyone, please refrain from making personal insults



Gorilla said:


> "pro olympic types"... BS...so called "sport"...I defer to you expertise on crap....You seem very good @ talking "crap"...I am sure that you are an expert @ recognizing it...form your mountain on high!


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## Daniel Sullivan (Mar 4, 2013)

Twin Fist said:


> personal insults are a violation of the TOS


So is style bashing, art bashing, and org bashing.


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## Dirty Dog (Mar 4, 2013)

Ladies and Gentlemen, let us please return to the original topic and keep it polite and adult, shall we?

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## Daniel Sullivan (Mar 4, 2013)

Twin Fist said:


> maybe they get it, but dont agree. I understand every excuse you pro olympic types come up with, i just think they are all BS and the so called "sport" is just so much crap



I'm actually not pro Olympics.  Placing a sport into the Olympics subjects it to the need to be TV friendly (some sports deal with this anyway).  I'm all for a good performance on the television, but increasing viewers at the Olympics means making the sport appeal to people who are inherently unfamiliar with the sport.  This creates an external agent of change that brings no benefit to the sport itself.  

The incomplete presentation of taekwondo in the Olympics has already been mentioned by myself and others.  I also question how much meaningful exposure it _really_ gives taekwondo, given that it doesn't seem to be televised.  The specialized rule set is what it is; you either like it or you don't.

That said, I am willing to accept the reality that for a good number of sports, taekwondo included, the Olympics is it.  There is no pro-TKD league, and being a competitor outside of the Olympics will not earn you a paycheck unless you take your rep and use it to open a school or coach.  Even being an Olympic medalist does not translate directly into financial security; for that, it needs to lead to a sponsorship deal.  Failing that, you take your rep and use it to open a school or coach.

None of that makes the sport bad or demean the reputation of martial arts in general or taekwondo in particular.  While Olympic TKD isn't my cup of coffee, I am happy for those who have put in the hard work and effort to make it to the Olympics.


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## Metal (Mar 5, 2013)

Daniel Sullivan said:


> Even being an Olympic medalist does not translate directly into financial security; for that, it needs to lead to a sponsorship deal.



That's different from country to country. Didn't Rohullah Nikpa from Afgghanistan receive a house and car after he won won Olympic gold in Bejing?


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## ralphmcpherson (Mar 5, 2013)

Metal said:


> That's different from country to country. Didn't Rohullah Nikpa from Afgghanistan receive a house and car after he won won Olympic gold in Bejing?



If an Australian gets gold at the Olympics they would be pretty much set up for life. Im sure lauren burns would still he reaping the rewards of tkd Olympic gold.


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## Daniel Sullivan (Mar 5, 2013)

ralphmcpherson said:


> Metal said:
> 
> 
> > That's different from country to country. Didn't Rohullah Nikpa from Afgghanistan receive a house and car after he won won Olympic gold in Bejing?
> ...


Interesting.  From what I can tell, the Olympics will give a US athlete a lot of advantages, but is not a guarantee of financial success.


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## Jaeimseu (Mar 5, 2013)

Daniel Sullivan said:


> Interesting.  From what I can tell, the Olympics will give a US athlete a lot of advantages, but is not a guarantee of financial success.



Yeah, I don't think it's such a meal ticket in the US. In Korea, it's a pretty big deal. I think they get a stipend for life. I'm not sure how much though. I don't know if that's a fact. That's just what I heard.


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## Gorilla (Mar 5, 2013)

Twin Fist said:


> personal insults are a violation of the TOS
> 
> i didnt say anything personal to anyone, please refrain from making personal insults



Whatever...your insults are thinnly veiled and transparent!!!!


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## ATC (Mar 5, 2013)

So sad that because someone does a sport it is assumed that that is all they can do. Maybe I need to put up clips of my son doing MMA in class and putting people in arm bars and or triangles. Maybe if I put up clips of class when we do boxing or even simple poomsae then some will understand, sport is sport and that is it. We have SD classes only that all black belts must attend. How thick do some have to be to understand that just because you do and like the sport, does not mean that you don't do and also love the art or arts for that matter. All I can do is shake my head. -___- and sigh.


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## Twin Fist (Mar 5, 2013)

do i have to put you on ignore? because i will.

i dont like a thing, you worship that thing, that leads you to take my opinions about that thing personally, but it isnt, and you are wrong to respond with personal insults,

please refrain, or if you cant control yourself, put me on ignore




Gorilla said:


> Whatever...your insults are thinnly veiled and transparent!!!!


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## Bob Hubbard (Mar 5, 2013)

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## Daniel Sullivan (Mar 5, 2013)

Rumy73 said:


> Tez3 said:
> 
> 
> > Trouble is that's what they have done with a number of sports like Judo and TKD and changed it for the worse.
> ...


Making a sport more TV friendly is challenging, and it is very difficult to do without sacrificing some measure of the sport's consistency.  The people you are trying to appeal to are often uneducated about the sport to begin with (those educated in the sport don't need the changes), and are unlikely appreciate the change anyway.

 I do think that the rewarding spin kicks and head kicks with more points goes beyond television viewership, howerver.  From what I understand, the adoption of electric hogu has made lower kicks and body punches more popular.  Rewarding the more difficult maneuver offers incentive without monkeying with the gear and without making radical changes to the sport itself.  It also reflects the Korean preference for high kicking.


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## Twin Fist (Mar 5, 2013)

there is a open tourny group in texas that gives 1 point for punch, 2 points for kick, 3 points for head kick. it works, but the thing is, you cant score if you fall down throwing the technique.....


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