# Ask Me Anything Korean Language Related



## KangTsai

(Before you ask, check my profile)
I posted this on the culture section earlier, but nobody goes there, ever. I have been going around correcting things in Korean language discussions, and turns out, people appreciate them thanks to the sheer number of people who do taekwondo on the forum. Yeah... So ask me stuff about the Korean language including taekwondo vocab. Thanks.


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## TrueJim

I have so many questions!  I'll start with just a few:

What's the difference between Dwi-kkumchi 뒤꿈치 and Dwi-chuk 뒤축 ? I take it they're different _parts_ of the heel?

At our school we call a back hook kick a Hwe Chuk, which I guess means an arcing heel? Why is the "heel" part of that just "chuk". When you use the word "chuk" alone would people know that that means heel?

At our school we call a jump back hook kick a Jugo Hwe Chuk. Previously on this board someday alluded to the fact that Jugo is a conjugation of a verb that means "to gain momentum by swinging". To me this seems like a really obscure way to name that kick; is it?

Is there a word for the back-side of the knee?

What's the difference between Son-mok 손목 and Pal-mok 팔목 ? Are they different areas of the wrist?

What's the difference between Pal-kup 팔굽 and Pal-kkumchi 팔꿈치 ?

Normally I hear a Long Front Stance called Ap Gubi 앞굽이 but I'm told an older term is something like "Ap Gubigi" (I don't know if I'm even romanizing that correctly.) I guess "Gubi" means something like "bent" or "flexible"...what the heck does Gubigi mean?   

When describing a jumping kick, what's the difference between Twimyo and Ttwieo?  

At our school we call a Jump Front Kick an Eedan Ap Chagi...again, this seems like an obscure way to name that kick; is it?


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## KangTsai

TrueJim said:


> I have so many questions!  I'll start with just a few:
> 
> What's the difference between Dwi-kkumchi 뒤꿈치 and Dwi-chuk 뒤축 ? I take it they're different _parts_ of the heel?
> 
> At our school we call a back hook kick a Hwe Chuk, which I guess means an arcing heel? Why is the "heel" part of that just "chuk". When you use the word "chuk" alone would people know that that means heel?
> 
> At our school we call a jump back hook kick a Jugo Hwe Chuk. Previously on this board someday alluded to the fact that Jugo is a conjugation of a verb that means "to gain momentum by swinging". To me this seems like a really obscure way to name that kick; is it?
> 
> Is there a word for the back-side of the knee?
> 
> What's the difference between Son-mok 손목 and Pal-mok 팔목 ? Are they different areas of the wrist?
> 
> What's the difference between Pal-kup 팔굽 and Pal-kkumchi 팔꿈치 ?
> 
> Normally I hear a Long Front Stance called Ap Gubi 앞굽이 but I'm told an older term is something like "Ap Gubigi" (I don't know if I'm even romanizing that correctly.) I guess "Gubi" means something like "bent" or "flexible"...what the heck does Gubigi mean?
> 
> When describing a jumping kick, what's the difference between Twimyo and Ttwieo?
> 
> At our school we call a Jump Front Kick an Eedan Ap Chagi...again, this seems like an obscure way to name that kick; is it?


1) 뒤꿈치 means heel and 뒤축 refers to the ones on shoes
2) I don't know what you're trying to romanise or if it's even grammatically coherent, sorry.
3) 'jugo' means a conjunction form of 'to give.' So you're clearly telling me the wrong word.
4) can't find a scientific one yet, but most will say  무릅 안쪽
5) 팔굽 is an incorrect expression of 팔꿈치 according to the dictionary.
6) 굽이기 means bending or hunching.
7) I can't interpret that romanisation into anything.
8) 2단 means 'two levels.' I guess if you're raising the other leg it makes sense.

Hope I helped.


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## Earl Weiss

General Choi use the word "Tul" to replace Hyung when referring to patterns. . Please explain the difference.


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## KangTsai

Earl Weiss said:


> General Choi use the word "Tul" to replace Hyung when referring to patterns. . Please explain the difference.


"형"(Hyung) means form, and I don't know what 'tul' is unless you can spell it out in Korean somehow, because it means nothing.


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## Gnarlie

KangTsai said:


> "형"(Hyung) means form, and I don't know what 'tul' is unless you can spell it out in Korean somehow, because it means nothing.


틀

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


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## KangTsai

Gnarlie said:


> 틀
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


It means 'frame' or 'template' or 'mould.'
NOTE: 'template' would be the closest to the literal meaning.


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## Earl Weiss

Template would likely be most fitting.  How would you romanize it?


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## KangTsai

Earl Weiss said:


> Template would likely be most fitting.  How would you romanize it?


Pronunce 'till.'


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## Gnarlie

ㅡ is without a doubt one of the hardest vowel sounds for non-Koreans to reproduce. I've sat with my master and others and tried with coaching and advice, without much success. It's the same sound as in the middle of 'jireugi' and 'geuman', normally romanised as 'eu'. 

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


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## FlamingJulian

KangTsai said:


> (Before you ask, check my profile)
> I posted this on the culture section earlier, but nobody goes there, ever. I have been going around correcting things in Korean language discussions, and turns out, people appreciate them thanks to the sheer number of people who do taekwondo on the forum. Yeah... So ask me stuff about the Korean language including taekwondo vocab. Thanks.



Thanks for letting us ask you. Can you tell why Korean has different phrases for everything? For example if say "How are you" wouldn't it be "잘 지냈어 요?"? But in Google translate it says "어떻게 지내?" Also, speaking of Taekwondo.... I learn that Reverse spinning hook kick is "Dweeryo Momdolyo Huryo Chagi" is that correct? Is there another term? Thanks man. 


-Julian


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## KangTsai

FlamingJulian said:


> Thanks for letting us ask you. Can you tell why Korean has different phrases for everything? For example if say "How are you" wouldn't it be "잘 지냈어 요?"? But in Google translate it says "어떻게 지내?" Also, speaking of Taekwondo.... I learn that Reverse spinning hook kick is "Dweeryo Momdolyo Huryo Chagi" is that correct? Is there another term? Thanks man.
> 
> 
> -Julian


Let's break down 'reverse spinning hook kick.'
뒤로-to the back
몸돌려-turn body (accusative)
후려-whipping or hooking
차기-kicking

It's more a description of the move.


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## FlamingJulian

KangTsai said:


> Let's break down 'reverse spinning hook kick.'
> 뒤로-to the back
> 몸돌려-turn body (accusative)
> 후려-whipping or hooking
> 차기-kicking
> 
> It's more a description of the move.



Ohh okay thank you! [emoji4]


-Julian


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## TrueJim

FlamingJulian said:


> Reverse spinning hook kick is "Dweeryo Momdolyo Huryo Chagi" is that correct? Is there another term? Thanks man.



Assuming we're talking about the same kick, the head of our school calls that "hwe chuk" -- which I think means "arcing heel".


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## KangTsai

TrueJim said:


> Assuming we're talking about the same kick, the head of our school calls that "hwe chuk" -- which I think means "arcing heel".


'hwe,' 회 (转) means spinning. 축 (踢) means kicking.


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## Metal

TrueJim said:


> When describing a jumping kick, what's the difference between Twimyo and Ttwieo?



뛰어 차기
and

뛰며 차기

The first, ttwieo chagi is the term that can be found in Kukkiwon publications, while ttwimyeo is the term being used in General Choi's Taekwondo book.

I'm also wondering what the exact difference between the two terms is.


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## KangTsai

Metal said:


> 뛰어 차기
> and
> 
> 뛰며 차기
> 
> The first, ttwieo chagi is the term that can be found in Kukkiwon publications, while ttwimyeo is the term being used in General Choi's Taekwondo book.
> 
> I'm also wondering what the exact difference between the two terms is.



뛰어차기 means 'jumping and kicking' and 뛰며차기 means 'kicking as you're jumping.'


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## Rough Rider

Have you played around with Google Translate?  If so, do you consider it to be reliable?


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## KangTsai

Rough Rider said:


> Have you played around with Google Translate?  If so, do you consider it to be reliable?


English to Korean (and vice versa)? Hell no. The only mostly working inatance would be something like Norwegian to Swedish.


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## Tez3

Kang Tsai, you must promise to never leave MT so this can be a sticky LOL!


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## KangTsai

Tez3 said:


> Kang Tsai, you must promise to never leave MT so this can be a sticky LOL!


Thanks! If this becomes a sticky it'll cause a disaster if I don't have WiFi for more than two days.


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## Tez3

KangTsai said:


> Thanks! If this becomes a sticky it'll cause a disaster if I don't have WiFi for more than two days.



Isn't there a name for the anxiety that lack of wifi causes lol, I was taking Guides this evening and we were planning a camping trip, then one realised there was no wifi in the field and said she couldn't possibly come camping after all, she's 13 and addicted to her I Pad.


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## KangTsai

Tez3 said:


> Isn't there a name for the anxiety that lack of wifi causes lol, I was taking Guides this evening and we were planning a camping trip, then one realised there was no wifi in the field and said she couldn't possibly come camping after all, she's 13 and addicted to her I Pad.


No I mean for the people who seek my help. I'm fine without Internet.


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## Tez3

KangTsai said:


> No I mean for the people who seek my help. I'm fine without Internet.



I know lol, .


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## Metal

KangTsai said:


> 뛰어차기 means 'jumping and kicking' and 뛰며차기 means 'kicking as you're jumping.'



Thanx! Then I guess that's why I've also seen: 

몸돌려 차기    mom-dol-lyeo cha-gi
몸돌며 차기    mom-dol-myeo cha-gi

That would then mean 'turn your body and kick'
& 'kicking as you're turning your body', correct?




FlamingJulian said:


> I learn that Reverse spinning hook kick is "Dweeryo Momdolyo Huryo Chagi" is that correct? Is there another term?



During my years in Taekwondo I came across quite a few terms for the spinning hook kick, but you could come up with different terms in English, too.

몸돌려 후려 차기    mom-dol-lyeo hu-ryeo cha-gi
body-turn-whip-kick

반대 돌려 차기    ban-dae dol-lyeo cha-gi
reverse-turn-kick

뒤후리기    dwi-hu-rigi
to the back/behind - whipping?

뒤돌려 차기    dwi-dol-lyeo cha-gi
to the back/behind - turning kick

회축    hoe-chuck
Whipping heel?

Maybe KangTsai can correct me if I was wrong.



For the axe kick I also heard different terms during the years:

내려 차기    nae-ryeo chagi
downward kicking

씩어 차기    ssi-geo cha-gi
chop kick?

찍기    ssik-kki
chopping



When I use the word 내려 차기    nae-ryeo chagi and have variations of the kick from the outside to the inside and vice versa, can I use both phrases listed below? Also, am I right about the 으로 ending changing the meaning to 'towards'?

안으로 내려 차기    A-neu-ro nae-ryeo chagi
towards the inside - downward kick
밖으로 내려 차기    Ba-kkeu-ro nae-ryeo chagi
towards the outside - downward kick
안 내려 차기    An nae-ryeo chagi
inside - downward kick
바깥 내려 차기    Ba-kkat nae-ryeo chagi
outside - downward kick


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## KangTsai

Metal said:


> Thanx! Then I guess that's why I've also seen:
> 
> 몸돌려 차기    mom-dol-lyeo cha-gi
> 몸돌며 차기    mom-dol-myeo cha-gi
> 
> That would then mean 'turn your body and kick'
> & 'kicking as you're turning your body', correct?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> During my years in Taekwondo I came across quite a few terms for the spinning hook kick, but you could come up with different terms in English, too.
> 
> 몸돌려 후려 차기    mom-dol-lyeo hu-ryeo cha-gi
> body-turn-whip-kick
> 
> 반대 돌려 차기    ban-dae dol-lyeo cha-gi
> reverse-turn-kick
> 
> 뒤후리기    dwi-hu-rigi
> to the back/behind - whipping?
> 
> 뒤돌려 차기    dwi-dol-lyeo cha-gi
> to the back/behind - turning kick
> 
> 회축    hoe-chuck
> Whipping heel?
> 
> Maybe KangTsai can correct me if I was wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> For the axe kick I also heard different terms during the years:
> 
> 내려 차기    nae-ryeo chagi
> downward kicking
> 
> 씩어 차기    ssi-geo cha-gi
> chop kick?
> 
> 찍기    ssik-kki
> chopping
> 
> 
> 
> When I use the word 내려 차기    nae-ryeo chagi and have variations of the kick from the outside to the inside and vice versa, can I use both phrases listed below? Also, am I right about the 으로 ending changing the meaning to 'towards'?
> 
> 안으로 내려 차기    A-neu-ro nae-ryeo chagi
> towards the inside - downward kick
> 밖으로 내려 차기    Ba-kkeu-ro nae-ryeo chagi
> towards the outside - downward kick
> 안 내려 차기    An nae-ryeo chagi
> inside - downward kick
> 바깥 내려 차기    Ba-kkat nae-ryeo chagi
> outside - downward kick


They're all correct. But 찍기 for an axe kick just has that phonic impact; it means stabbing/spearing/shoving/pressing you get my point.


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## KangTsai

Reminder that this thread is still active for everybody


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## Gerry Seymour

KangTsai said:


> 뛰어차기 means 'jumping and kicking' and 뛰며차기 means 'kicking as you're jumping.'


I'm certain that there are people who argue vehemently about which is the "right" term, because they don't know they are so nearly identical.


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## Rough Rider

Why does 차 렷 (Charyeut) end with a ㅅ instead of a ㅌ?


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## Gnarlie

Rough Rider said:


> Why does 차 렷 (Charyeut) end with a ㅅ instead of a ㅌ?


Same reason your name has a gh at the end of the first word and not an f. At the end of a syllable ㅅ closes with the tongue in a t position but as far as I understand is not aspirated, which ㅌ at the end of a syllable would be. 

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


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## Rough Rider

Gnarlie said:


> Same reason your name has a gh at the end of the first word and not an f. At the end of a syllable ㅅ closes with the tongue in a t position but as far as I understand is not aspirated, which ㅌ at the end of a syllable would be.


Thanks, Gnarlie!  With that explanation, I think you also helped me realize the difference between ㅅ and ㅆ, which I've been struggling with!


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## KangTsai

Rough Rider said:


> Thanks, Gnarlie!  With that explanation, I think you also helped me realize the difference between ㅅ and ㅆ, which I've been struggling with!


The difference between ㅌ and ㅅ is 'just because.' You use ㅆ when linking like 있습니다.


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## KangTsai

gpseymour said:


> I'm certain that there are people who argue vehemently about which is the "right" term, because they don't know they are so nearly identical.


Some phrases sound more natural over others of same meaning.


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## Tez3

KangTsai said:


> Some phrases sound more natural over others of same meaning.



That's also very true of English yet I think people don't think it also applies to other languages because we don't think about our native languages in the same way we have to with other peoples when trying to read, speak or understand them.


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## Gerry Seymour

KangTsai said:


> Some phrases sound more natural over others of same meaning.


I was thinking more of the people who don't speak Korean, but know the terms in TKD. I've heard people argue rather stridently about the "correct" interpretation of a Japanese term for some technique, concept, or movement - based entirely on a premise that came from a lack of understanding of Japanese.


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## TrueJim

I don't want to bother you by asking for a word-for-word translation, but what's the gist of this article?

mookas_community


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## KangTsai

TrueJim said:


> I don't want to bother you by asking for a word-for-word translation, but what's the gist of this article?
> 
> mookas_community


It's basically, "gukgiwon taekwondo means alot to us, please help us regain its integrity, because it's currently, the management of the martial art is broken"

Specifics for that numbered section translate to

"Here are some problems that are common in taekwondo-

1. People setting up dojangs even without gukgiwon certification

2. The value of tanks and dans have been reduced to nothing

3. The gukgiwon taekwondo business is a cycle of spending money and receiving negative attention

4. Become a hierarchical, fan-like business

Will be edited


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## Gwai Lo Dan

Real basic question....how do I say "hi" formally?  I thought I heard previously "anasayo", but videos seem to have an extra syllable "an young asayo"

Did I hear wrong, or do people just drop syllables when talking like  in English "how ya doing" vs "how are you doing"?


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## KangTsai

Gwai Lo Dan said:


> Real basic question....how do I say "hi" formally?  I thought I heard previously "anasayo", but videos seem to have an extra syllable "an young asayo"
> 
> Did I hear wrong, or do people just drop syllables when talking like  in English "how ya doing" vs "how are you doing"?


Glad to see this thread's recieved some bumping.

The spelling is 안녕하세요 (an-nyoung-ha-se-yo, directly translates to "you good/alive?")
As for pronounciation, yeah it is just dropping syllables in normal speech. Kinda like some non-BBC british accent : "tha' wad the bes' e'a drin' I ha' in years."


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## Gerry Seymour

KangTsai said:


> Glad to see this thread's recieved some bumping.
> 
> The spelling is 안녕하세요 (an-nyoung-ha-se-yo, directly translates to "you good/alive?")
> As for pronounciation, yeah it is just dropping syllables in normal speech. Kinda like some non-BBC british accent : "tha' wad the bes' e'a drin' I ha' in years."


That looks like a Scottish accent when I read it, but that's still a good example. In an informal accent, the Scottish seem to ignore the existence of many of the consonants and more than a few syllables.


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## Gwai Lo Dan

KangTsai said:


> Glad to see this thread's recieved some bumping.
> 
> The spelling is 안녕하세요 (an-nyoung-ha-se-yo, directly translates to "you good/alive?")
> As for pronounciation, yeah it is just dropping syllables in normal speech. Kinda like some non-BBC british accent : "tha' wad the bes' e'a drin' I ha' in years."


Thanks!


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## Tez3

KangTsai said:


> tha' wad the bes' e'a drin' I ha' in years."





gpseymour said:


> That looks like a Scottish accent when I read it, but that's still a good example. In an informal accent, the Scottish seem to ignore the existence of many of the consonants and more than a few syllables.



That sounds like someone who's pished.


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## serietah

Or if you want to be more formal, 안녕하십니까 (anyoung hashimneeka).  That's the most formal way to say hello. It's what we use in our dojang


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## Gwai Lo Dan

serietah said:


> Or if you want to be more formal, 안녕하십니까 (anyoung hashimneeka).  That's the most formal way to say hello. It's what we use in our dojang


I'll have to ask a Korean student about that to hear the pronunciation. Thanks.


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## KangTsai

serietah said:


> Or if you want to be more formal, 안녕하십니까 (anyoung hashimneeka).  That's the most formal way to say hello. It's what we use in our dojang


Oh, you think it is, but it's not. I'll have tonask my grandparents for the ultra-tier formal greetings. One of the most formal thanks are "성은히 망극하옵니다." Greetings also exist on that level.


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## serietah

Ah, the most formal way I know then, haha. I'm assuming anything more formal than the deferential level is really old?


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## Tez3

serietah said:


> Ah, the most formal way I know then, haha. I'm assuming anything more formal than the deferential level is really old?



I have this horrible idea that Kang Tsai's grandparents are younger than me and his idea of old is going to be 20 years with really old being something that was used 30 years ago!


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## KangTsai

serietah said:


> Ah, the most formal way I know then, haha. I'm assuming anything more formal than the deferential level is really old?


Right on, and you would likely major in Korean literacy to even care.


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## KangTsai

Tez3 said:


> I have this horrible idea that Kang Tsai's grandparents are younger than me and his idea of old is going to be 20 years with really old being something that was used 30 years ago!


It's technically pre-japan vocabulary and such.


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## Tez3

KangTsai said:


> It's technically pre-japan vocabulary and such.



and there was me thinking you were going to make me feel even older than I am lol. That sounds very interesting, I can imagine that is quite an emotive subject for older people? I know the Japan/Korea relationship isn't a happy one. While I think about it, is it true, I read this once, that Korea was actually spelt 'Corea' originally but the Japanese changed it so that Japan would come first in any alphabetical list of countries? One never knows with those sort of stories.


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## KangTsai

Tez3 said:


> and there was me thinking you were going to make me feel even older than I am lol. That sounds very interesting, I can imagine that is quite an emotive subject for older people? I know the Japan/Korea relationship isn't a happy one. While I think about it, is it true, I read this once, that Korea was actually spelt 'Corea' originally but the Japanese changed it so that Japan would come first in any alphabetical list of countries? One never knows with those sort of stories.


By this point, the only historical tension with Japan and its former occupied territories is that Japan has never formerly apologised for any of it. E.G. comfort women protestors in China and Korea— they protest for Japan to recognise that the whole comfort women thing happened, which Japan ignores.
The Corea to Korea thing is a little ambiguous.


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## Tez3

KangTsai said:


> By this point, the only historical tension with Japan and its former occupied territories is that Japan has never formerly apologised for any of it. E.G. comfort women protestors in China and Korea— they protest for Japan to recognise that the whole comfort women thing happened, which Japan ignores.
> The Corea to Korea thing is a little ambiguous.



We have the same thing with the former prisoners of war, many of whom are still alive, it wasn't just soldiers who were taken prisoners but women and children as well.
If any of you have ever watched the popular films about the St Trinian's school, have a look for the original artwork which  created those schoolgirls, it was born in a Japanese prisoner of war camp by a British soldier attempting to amuse others and distract from the horrors of being there. He also drew many pictures though depicting life in the camps and on the infamous Burma Railway which he helped build. ( depicted in the film Bridge on the River Kwai) he wrote several books about his experiences.
Something that as a Guide leader I am humbled by. The secrets of the Changi Girl Guide quilt


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## KangTsai

Tez3 said:


> We have the same thing with the former prisoners of war, many of whom are still alive, it wasn't just soldiers who were taken prisoners but women and children as well.
> If any of you have ever watched the popular films about the St Trinian's school, have a look for the original artwork which  created those schoolgirls, it was born in a Japanese prisoner of war camp by a British soldier attempting to amuse others and distract from the horrors of being there. He also drew many pictures though depicting life in the camps and on the infamous Burma Railway which he helped build. ( depicted in the film Bridge on the River Kwai) he wrote several books about his experiences.
> Something that as a Guide leader I am humbled by. The secrets of the Changi Girl Guide quilt


Oh, comfort women were a whole different type of prisoner.


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## Tez3

KangTsai said:


> Oh, comfort women were a whole different type of prisoner.



I know, British military nurses were sent to Japan and other places to be 'comfort women' as were women in any country the Japanese invaded.


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## Tez3

Is this you? 
A Korean YouTube star has taken on Wales' most famous phrases


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## KangTsai

Tez3 said:


> Is this you?
> A Korean YouTube star has taken on Wales' most famous phrases


That's my great grandfather.


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## Gwai Lo Dan

Are the words for yell and energy - kihap and ki - related?


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## KangTsai

Gwai Lo Dan said:


> Are the words for yell and energy - kihap and ki - related?


It's pronounced 'geehupp,' first of all. 'Gi/기' means will or energy. 'Hap/합' means to add or combine.


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## Gwai Lo Dan

KangTsai said:


> It's pronounced 'geehupp,' first of all. 'Gi/기' means will or energy. 'Hap/합' means to add or combine.


Thanks! Funny, I always hear "key up". It's "gee" like the letter g? And no "y" sound, but an "h" sound?


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## KangTsai

Gwai Lo Dan said:


> Thanks! Funny, I always hear "key up". It's "gee" like the letter g? And no "y" sound, but an "h" sound?


Gee as in gear or gi. Saying hap as yap is just a normal speech thing, as you don't pause between characters or something like that.


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## Gwai Lo Dan

KangTsai said:


> Gee as in gear or gi. Saying hap as yap is just a normal speech thing, as you don't pause between characters or something like that.


Is "yap" in the term for yell related to the term for side kick - yap chugi?


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## KangTsai

Th


Gwai Lo Dan said:


> Is "yap" in the term for yell related to the term for side kick - yap chugi?


That's 'yeop/엽.'


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## Gerry Seymour

I have a purely academic question, Kang Tsai. I don't study any KMA, but I've been following this thread because I'm a language nerd at heart. I see that the Korean characters you provide here appear to be more segmented (visible separate parts) than Japanese kanji. Does each character have a meaning (like Japanese kanji), or are you using the equivalent of hiragana (syllabary for Japanese)? Does Korean writing have both types of writing, as Japanese does?


----------



## KangTsai

gpseymour said:


> I have a purely academic question, Kang Tsai. I don't study any KMA, but I've been following this thread because I'm a language nerd at heart. I see that the Korean characters you provide here appear to be more segmented (visible separate parts) than Japanese kanji. Does each character have a meaning (like Japanese kanji), or are you using the equivalent of hiragana (syllabary for Japanese)? Does Korean writing have both types of writing, as Japanese does?


There is both. Chinese characters are learned and noted next to their Korean and Sino-Korean words, like 불 화 火, respectively.
The Sino-Korean, identical to kan'on in Japanese, is usually used in compound words, like Latin or Greek in English.
Note that Korean, grammatically, is identical to Japanese.


----------



## TrueJim

gpseymour said:


> ...I see that the Korean characters you provide here appear to be more segmented (visible separate parts) than Japanese kanji. Does each character have a meaning (like Japanese kanji), or are you using the equivalent of hiragana (syllabary for Japanese)? Does Korean writing have both types of writing, as Japanese does?



FYI, here's a terrific quick intro to Hangul.


----------



## Gerry Seymour

KangTsai said:


> There is both. Chinese characters are learned and noted next to their Korean and Sino-Korean words, like 불 화 火, respectively.
> The Sino-Korean, identical to kan'on in Japanese, is usually used in compound words, like Latin or Greek in English.
> Note that Korean, grammatically, is identical to Japanese.


Thanks, that's a lot of information in just 4 sentences!


----------



## Gerry Seymour

TrueJim said:


> FYI, here's a terrific quick intro to Hangul.


Thanks for that - that's a pretty easy way to learn the sounds.


----------



## andyjeffries

KangTsai said:


> That's 'yeop/엽.'



Not 옆?


----------



## KangTsai

andyjeffries said:


> Not 옆?


CRAP A TYPO

YES IT IS


----------



## KangTsai

Gwai Lo Dan said:


> Is "yap" in the term for yell related to the term for side kick - yap chugi?


I MADE A TYPO IT IS 옆 as Andy pointed out.


----------



## Leo89

How accurate is the Korean 101 classes online/YouTube?


----------



## KangTsai

Leo89 said:


> How accurate is the Korean 101 classes online/YouTube?


 What they have is probably correct but they may fail to describe subtleties, nuances and details, so don't completely rely on them.


----------



## WaterGal

Gwai Lo Dan said:


> Thanks! Funny, I always hear "key up". It's "gee" like the letter g? And no "y" sound, but an "h" sound?



A lot of people hear it that way, which leads some people to refer to yelling for energy as "keying up".


----------



## Leo89

On another note. 

Is it "Annyong'Haseo kwang chang nim?"

Or more along the lines of "Annyonghaseo kwang chang nim?"

He spells thinks like makgi as makki.


----------



## donald1

Okay.. I got 3 questions. What are these terms in Korean. 

- what does "forms" translate as?

- what does "reverse punch translate as?
- whats the term for head instructor and its korean translation?


----------



## Metal

donald1 said:


> Okay.. I got 3 questions. What are these terms in Korean.
> 
> - what does "forms" translate as?
> 
> - what does "reverse punch translate as?
> - whats the term for head instructor and its korean translation?




Those can easily be answered without asking someone who speaks Korean.

Forms:
형 hyeong (in Kukkiwon taekwondo everybody would use 품새 poomsae)

Reverse punch:
반대 지르기 bandae jirugi (note that in Kukkiwon taekwondo this is on the side of the front leg while it's on the side of the rear leg in ITF or 'traditional' Taekwondo.

Head instructor
관장 kwanjang (owner/head of the school)


----------



## Dirty Dog

Metal said:


> Forms:
> 형 hyeong (in Kukkiwon taekwondo everybody would use 품새 poomsae)



Poomsae, Tul, or Hyung.



Metal said:


> Head instructor
> 관장 kwanjang (owner/head of the school)



Kwanjang is often used for the head of a school these days, but it was originally limited to the head of the system. Which is how we still use it.
Our chief instructor uses the title Sabum.


----------



## KangTsai

Leo89 said:


> On another note.
> 
> Is it "Annyong'Haseo kwang chang nim?"
> 
> Or more along the lines of "Annyonghaseo kwang chang nim?"
> 
> He spells thinks like makgi as makki.


The second one. Pay attention to pronunciation.
Vocaroo | Voice message


----------



## Metal

Dirty Dog said:


> Poomsae, Tul, or Hyung.



틀 teul is a term created by General Choi when he reformed and revised his 'Taekwondo-Do'.

Maybe Kang Tsai can let us know if 형 hyeong is a Sino-Korean word. That may be a reason for Kukkiwon and KTA to come up with 품세 poomse (hanja: 品勢) and in 1987 with the pure Korean word 품새 poomsae.

Maybe Kang Tsai can tell us something about that word 품새 poomae, based on this article:

KYL English Poomse change 1987

The majority of Taekwondoin worldwide would use 품새 poomsae for forms, just like most Americans would say Scotch for clear tape and Xerox machine for a copying machine. Nobody in the ROK would refer to forms as 틀 teul - that's why I didn't mention it.



Dirty Dog said:


> Kwanjang is often used for the head of a school these days, but it was originally limited to the head of the system. Which is how we still use it.
> Our chief instructor uses the title Sabum.



관 kwan means hall/gym and kwanjang is indeed the head of a school. While the heads of the original schools of Taekwondo indeed became heads of certain branches of Taekwondo (or the respective style they were teaching back then) when their kwans began to spread and have many other schools besides the main dojang, that doesn't mean that the term kwanjang means "head of a system".


----------



## Azulx

What is the difference between Chagi and Busigi?


----------



## KangTsai

Azulx said:


> What is the difference between Chagi and Busigi?


Chagi means kicking and Busigi means breaking.


----------



## andyjeffries

KangTsai said:


> Chagi means kicking and Busigi means breaking.



As a Korean learner, can you please explain the last one. As I understand it, it's the stem of the verb Busuda (부수다, to break) plus the gerund ending -gi (기). So why isn't it Busugi (부수기), why does it change to (I assume) 부시기?

Thanks.


----------



## KangTsai

andyjeffries said:


> As a Korean learner, can you please explain the last one. As I understand it, it's the stem of the verb Busuda (부수다, to break) plus the gerund ending -gi (기). So why isn't it Busugi (부수기), why does it change to (I assume) 부시기?
> 
> Thanks.


It doesn't have to. It just isn't incorrect to say it like that.


----------



## Metal

In Taekwondo there is one (and sometimes two and three) step sparring, like this:







While in Kukkiwon Taekwondo calls it:

hanbeon (and if there would be two and three step sparring: dubeon & seboen) kyeorugi 
한번 (두번 & 세번) 켜루기 

There are also:

ilbo (ibo and sambo) taeryeon in early ITF
and 
ilbo (ibo and sambo) matsogi in today's ITF

How would you write those in hangeul? 
Since 일, 이 and 삼 are used I guess the words taeryeon and matsogi (don't know if those are the correct romanizations since I don't know how they're written in hangeul) are sino-korean, correct?

Is there any difference in the meanings of kyeorugi, taeryeon and matsogi?

Thanx!


----------



## Gwai Lo Dan

Does "koro" mean something in Korean?  In this video (in French), the coach is talking about a "koro cut" kick. Please see at 1:29 for the word on the screen. Thanks.


----------



## Gnarlie

Gwai Lo Dan said:


> Does "koro" mean something in Korean?  In this video (in French), the coach is talking about a "koro cut" kick. Please see at 1:29 for the word on the screen. Thanks.


My understanding is it means 'stop' as in Bruce Lee's 'stop hit'. A pre-emptive movement that jams the opponent's movement before it begins, and functions as an attack of it's own. A cut kick is an example. Blocking a telegraphed hook punch by wedging in between arm and neck, attacking the bicep and carotid would be an example of a "Goro Makki" kind of technique.


----------



## Gwai Lo Dan

That makes sense, thanks.


----------



## marques

Is bandai something in Korean?

This is the name for body kick (to the ribs) in my current club. And I read somewhere it (or bandae) could come from Korean. What can you tell about it? Thanks.


----------



## KangTsai

marques said:


> Is bandai something in Korean?
> 
> This is the name for body kick (to the ribs) in my current club. And I read somewhere it (or bandae) could come from Korean. What can you tell about it? Thanks.


반대 means 'reverse'


----------



## KangTsai

Gwai Lo Dan said:


> Does "koro" mean something in Korean?  In this video (in French), the coach is talking about a "koro cut" kick. Please see at 1:29 for the word on the screen. Thanks.





Gnarlie said:


> My understanding is it means 'stop' as in Bruce Lee's 'stop hit'. A pre-emptive movement that jams the opponent's movement before it begins, and functions as an attack of it's own. A cut kick is an example. Blocking a telegraphed hook punch by wedging in between arm and neck, attacking the bicep and carotid would be an example of a "Goro Makki" kind of technique.



I struggled to find what those romanisations mean at first, because they are awful at Korean phoenic representation.

"Koro" is a terrible romanisation to use for what is apparently '걸어.' It can be interpreted as 코로, 콜로, 고로, 골로, 거러, 걸러, 걸어, 커러, 컬러 and 컬러. More accurately it would be 'geor-eo.' 

In this context it means to hook or hang.


----------



## KangTsai

Gnarlie said:


> My understanding is it means 'stop' as in Bruce Lee's 'stop hit'. A pre-emptive movement that jams the opponent's movement before it begins, and functions as an attack of it's own. A cut kick is an example. Blocking a telegraphed hook punch by wedging in between arm and neck, attacking the bicep and carotid would be an example of a "Goro Makki" kind of technique.


It means to hook ; hang ; walk. Please avoid posting definitions that you guess - the point of this thread is to stay accurate, thanks.


----------



## Gnarlie

KangTsai said:


> It means to hook ; hang ; walk. Please avoid posting definitions that you guess - the point of this thread is to stay accurate, thanks.


I didn't guess. My understanding of Georeo comes from Master Jeong In Cheol's video 'Introduction to Makki'. In the context of Taekwondo techniques, it means a pre-emptive motion to prevent. 

I have contact with many Koreans  in my Taekwondo life, and in my experience the definitions of words in Taekwondo terminology and their definitions in everyday Korean are they are NOT the same. We often get questions about terminology from Korean parents. 

Georeo makki is the last level of makki. See 2:03


----------



## Gnarlie

Perhaps it's because these techniques involve going to the opponent. Perhaps it's because they hang the opponent's technique....?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


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## andyjeffries

Gnarlie said:


> I didn't guess. My understanding of Georeo comes from Master Jeong In Cheol's video 'Introduction to Makki'. In the context of Taekwondo techniques, it means a pre-emptive motion to prevent.



Master Jeong is a very close friend of mine and I speak to him most days (and am visiting him again in March). I've just been talking with him about this thread. He had the following to say:

"Georeo is romanised as 걸어, this means locking something. Yes almost same to Bruce lee's Stop hit. 걸다 , 걸어 - Lock= 걸다 , by locking = 걸어"

Gnarlie, you'd understood it correctly.


----------



## Gnarlie

andyjeffries said:


> Master Jeong is a very close friend of mine and I speak to him most days (and am visiting him again in March). I've just been talking with him about this thread. He had the following to say:
> 
> "Georeo is romanised as 걸어, this means locking something. Yes almost same to Bruce lee's Stop hit. 걸다 , 걸어 - Lock= 걸다 , by locking = 걸어"
> 
> Gnarlie, you'd understood it correctly.


Thank you Andy, that is very helpful of you.


----------



## TrueJim

Within the context of taekwondo, what is the Korean equivalent to the English word "chamber"? As in, to chamber for a block.


----------



## Gwai Lo Dan

Is there any relationship between 3rd pattern and soybean paste. I see both are samjang lol.


----------



## Gnarlie

TrueJim said:


> Within the context of taekwondo, what is the Korean equivalent to the English word "chamber"? As in, to chamber for a block.


준비동작 Junbi dongjak. Ready / prepare technique. 

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


----------



## TrueJim

Gnarlie said:


> 준비동작 Junbi dongjak. Ready / prepare technique.



Thank you sir!  Coincidentally, I was just told earlier today that while many of us use the word "chamber" in English, in Korean there's more variety in what term might be used?  So I was told that 준비동작 *junbi dongjak* (ready for technique) might be used, or also 예비동작 *yebi* *dongjak* (prepare for technique).

(One of my fellow American instructors is going to be teaching in Korea for 6 weeks this summer, and she and I are trying to learn enough Korean to be able to teach a class -- her because she has to, me just for the fun of it.)  Thank you again sir!


----------



## andyjeffries

Gwai Lo Dan said:


> Is there any relationship between 3rd pattern and soybean paste. I see both are samjang lol.



Hahaha, you know they're different Korean spellings though, right?

쌈장 soybean paste
태극 삼장 Taegeuk 3

On a almost unrelated note, I've never had 쌈장, what is it like? Spicy like 고추장 (gochujang, red pepper paste) or dark and not spicy like 된장 (doenjang, another soybean paste), or maybe a mixture of the two?


----------



## Gwai Lo Dan

andyjeffries said:


> Hahaha, you know they're different Korean spellings though, right?


I guessed so, like when I had asked in class whether the "kukkiwan" name is related to the words we say when bowing to the flags which to me sound like"kukki daiyo".

In terms of the taste, I can't comment.  My wife wanted to go to the Korean grocery store, and I noticed all the boxes with paste said "sammjang" or similar spelling. Maybe for fun one day in class I will refer to the soybean paste pattern.


----------



## KabutoKouji

all i can remember is 'opun sonkut tulgi' 'dolimyo makgi', 'charyut' and 'kun ye' - is the Korean for 'hello' and 'goodbye' 'hasayo' and an 'anyehasayo' ?


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## KangTsai

"차렷" means basically the same thing as the sergeant calling "ATTE-NTION."




KabutoKouji said:


> is the Korean for 'hello' and 'goodbye' 'hasayo' and an 'anyehasayo' ?


 First one is "하세요," which means "do it." Second one doesn't mean anything. The interchangeable hello and goodbye is "안녕," which is informal, and the formal is "안녕하세요" for hello and "안녕히가세요" for a goodbye.


----------



## KabutoKouji

I can't read Korean letters tbh


----------



## KangTsai

Gwai Lo Dan said:


> I guessed so, like when I had asked in class whether the "kukkiwan" name is related to the words we say when bowing to the flags which to me sound like"kukki daiyo".
> 
> In terms of the taste, I can't comment.  My wife wanted to go to the Korean grocery store, and I noticed all the boxes with paste said "sammjang" or similar spelling. Maybe for fun one day in class I will refer to the soybean paste pattern.


'Samjang(삼장)' and 'ssamjang(쌈장)' aren't homophones at all by the way. That pun doesn't work.


----------



## KangTsai

KabutoKouji said:


> I can't read Korean letters tbh


Unfortunately, it's absolutely impossible to romanise Korean script accurately. Not even close.


----------



## TrueJim

KabutoKouji said:


> I can't read Korean letters tbh



(1) It's super easy to learn the Hangul alphabet. That's because Hangul is a relatively recent "designed" alphabet, rather than one that "evolved" over millennia. This quick-guide is a good way to get started: Learn to Read Korean in 15 Minutes

(2) Failing that, you can also copy-and-paste Hangul into Google Translate (translate.google.com). In a small font, on the left side of the page, under the Hangul letters that you've just entered, it'll show you a romanization of the Hangul letters. Even better, there's a little "speaker" icon there that you can click to hear the phrase pronounced!


----------



## Gerry Seymour

TrueJim said:


> (1) It's super easy to learn the Hangul alphabet. That's because Hangul is a relatively recent "designed" alphabet, rather than one that "evolved" over millennia. This quick-guide is a good way to get started: Learn to Read Korean in 15 Minutes
> 
> (2) Failing that, you can also copy-and-paste Hangul into Google Translate (translate.google.com). In a small font, on the left side of the page, under the Hangul letters that you've just entered, it'll show you a romanization of the Hangul letters. Even better, there's a little "speaker" icon there that you can click to hear the phrase pronounced!


I didn't know that about Hangul. What's the history on that?


----------



## TrueJim

gpseymour said:


> I didn't know that about Hangul. What's the history on that?



Before Hangul, Koreans would write using their own variation (Hanja) of Chinese script -- essentially, scholars needed to learn to speak Chinese before they could learn how to write. That's why literacy was super-low in ancient Korea. That's one of the reasons there are so few written records from ancient Korea. (The other reason being that the Mongols burned what few written records there were when they invaded the Korean peninsula in 1231.)

In the year 1443, King Sejong the Great commissioned his scholars to develop a Korean alphabet. They designed Hangul. Hangul is considered a "featural" alphabet in that the shapes of the letters tells you something about how they're pronounced. For example, all "plosive" sounds have a horizontal bar along the top of the letter. People who study alphabets consider Hangul to be exceptionally well designed. When it was first invented, Hangul's use was kept on the down-low for fear of angering the Chinese...Korea was still a vassal state of China at the time. The upshot is: Korea has had an alphabet for not quite 600 years, and that alphabet was designed intentionally, rather than evolving over time like most other alphabets around the world. And of course, Hanja is still used today when you wanna get "fancy". (I would compare this to writing in an elaborate Gothic script in English -- i.e., trying to look "fancy" in your writing.)

In modern times, Hangul is a bit problematic for implementation on computers. Every possible syllable block has to be implemented as a single computer character, meaning the character-set on a computer for Hangul has to be exceptionally large...about 11,000 computer characters! This is a consequence of writing letters as syllable blocks, rather than writing letters in a single direction.


----------



## Gerry Seymour

TrueJim said:


> Before Hangul, Koreans would write using their own variation (Hanja) of Chinese script -- essentially, scholars needed to learn to speak Chinese before they could learn how to write. That's why literacy was super-low in ancient Korea. That's one of the reasons there are so few written records from ancient Korea. (The other reason being that the Mongols burned what few written records there were when they invaded the Korean peninsula in 1231.)
> 
> In the year 1443, King Sejong the Great commissioned his scholars to develop a Korean alphabet. They designed Hangul. Hangul is considered a "featural" alphabet in that the shapes of the letters tells you something about how they're pronounced. For example, all "plosive" sounds have a horizontal bar along the top of the letter. People who study alphabets consider Hangul to be exceptionally well designed. When it was first invented, Hangul's use was kept on the down-low for fear of angering the Chinese...Korea was still a vassal state of China at the time. The upshot is: Korea has had an alphabet for not quite 600 years, and that alphabet was designed intentionally, rather than evolving over time like most other alphabets around the world. And of course, Hanja is still used today when you wanna get "fancy". (I would compare this to writing in an elaborate Gothic script in English -- i.e., trying to look "fancy" in your writing.)
> 
> In modern times, Hangul is a bit problematic for implementation on computers. Every possible syllable block has to be implemented as a single computer character, meaning the character-set on a computer for Hangul has to be exceptionally large...about 11,000 computer characters! This is a consequence of writing letters as syllable blocks, rather than writing letters in a single direction.


So, the individual sounds essentially stack into a single syllable? That should make for compact writing, but I can see the complication with computing.


----------



## TrueJim

gpseymour said:


> So, the individual sounds essentially stack into a single syllable? That should make for compact writing, but I can see the complication with computing.



Yes exactly. In Hangul, each syllable is written as a single block of letters. In a nutshell, if the vowel in the syllable is horizontal in shape, the letters stack like pancakes into the syllable block. If the vowel has a vertical shape, the vowel sits on the right side of the syllable block. Here's an example:







The word tae-kwon-do has three syllables, so there are three blocks. In the first syllable, the "ae" sound has a vertical shape, so it's written to the right of the "t" sound. In the last syllable, the "o" sound has a horizontal shape, so it's written under the "d" sound. 

Aside: in English, the letters D and T _sound_ similar, and you'll notice that in Hangul they _look_ alike as well -- letters that sound similar also look similar -- that's what's meant by "featural". It's really very clever. 
The middle syllable of this word is more complicated: it's got two vowels glommed-together in the middle of the syllable (the two vowels are "oo-ah" -- which sound like "wah" when you say them together quickly). In that case, the combined double-vowel just kinda wraps itself around the initial consonant...like big spoon cuddling with little spoon.  

The upshot is that there aren't actually that many letters in the Korean alphabet, and yet it still takes 11,000+ different characters to depict them in a computer, because on a computer you have to treat each possible block as a letter. Oy vey!


----------



## Gerry Seymour

TrueJim said:


> Yes exactly. In Hangul, each syllable is written as a single block of letters. In a nutshell, if the vowel in the syllable is horizontal in shape, the letters stack like pancakes into the syllable block. If the vowel has a vertical shape, the vowel sits on the right side of the syllable block. Here's an example:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The word tae-kwon-do has three syllables, so there are three blocks. In the first syllable, the "ae" sound has a vertical shape, so it's written to the right of the "t" sound. In the last syllable, the "o" sound has a horizontal shape, so it's written under the "d" sound.
> 
> Aside: in English, the letters D and T _sound_ similar, and you'll notice that in Hangul they _look_ alike as well -- letters that sound similar also look similar -- that's what's meant by "featural". It's really very clever.
> The middle syllable of this word is more complicated: it's got two vowels glommed-together in the middle of the syllable (the two vowels are "oo-ah" -- which sound like "wah" when you say them together quickly). In that case, the combined double-vowel just kinda wraps itself around the initial consonant...like big spoon cuddling with little spoon.
> 
> The upshot is that there aren't actually that many letters in the Korean alphabet, and yet it still takes 11,000+ different characters to depict them in a computer, because on a computer you have to treat each possible block as a letter. Oy vey!


That's very cool. Maybe I'll add it to my "someday, maybe" list of languages to learn a bit of. I used to have quite a facility for languages, and picked up bits easily. I don't seem to do so as readily now.

Looking specifically at the difference between the "t" and "d" sounds, is there a common identifier for voiced vs. unvoiced consonants? Is there a commonality among the fricatives (s, f, etc.)?


----------



## TrueJim

gpseymour said:


> ...Looking specifically at the difference between the "t" and "d" sounds, is there a common identifier for voiced vs. unvoiced consonants? Is there a commonality among the fricatives (s, f, etc.)?



Absolutely!  Glad to see that somebody finds this as fascinating as I do.    Here are good summaries that explain it better than I can:  All Things Linguistic and In Praise Of: The World's Best Writing System


----------



## andyjeffries

An interesting fact that we were told on the Kukkiwon World Taekwondo Leaders Forum in 2012 was that Hangul is also used by a reasonably small tribe in Africa. Some scholars went there and found they couldn't write their language at all. So they considered all the alphabets and found that Korean sounds matched their sounds completely, so learnt and then taught them Hangul. So they write their own language using Hangul characters. I bet it would be funny to have them meet a Korean :-D

Anyway, not sure if that is common knowledge or not so thought I would share it. At the time (during an hour lecture on the history of Korean language) I thought it was a cool fact, but didn't think to write down the name of the tribe... Oh well, you live and learn.


----------



## andyjeffries

KangTsai said:


> Unfortunately, it's absolutely impossible to romanise Korean script accurately. Not even close.



I agree it's not accurate, but it may help for people who can't read Hangul if you also use the official romanisation for Hangul.

For those wanting to learn more - Revised Romanization of Korean - Wikipedia


----------



## TrueJim

andyjeffries said:


> ...Some scholars went there and found they couldn't write their language at all. So they considered all the alphabets and found that Korean sounds matched their sounds completely, so learnt and then taught them Hangul....



Interesting!  Indonesian tribe maybe?  http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/12/world/asia/12script.html?_r=0


----------



## Gerry Seymour

andyjeffries said:


> An interesting fact that we were told on the Kukkiwon World Taekwondo Leaders Forum in 2012 was that Hangul is also used by a reasonably small tribe in Africa. Some scholars went there and found they couldn't write their language at all. So they considered all the alphabets and found that Korean sounds matched their sounds completely, so learnt and then taught them Hangul. So they write their own language using Hangul characters. I bet it would be funny to have them meet a Korean :-D
> 
> Anyway, not sure if that is common knowledge or not so thought I would share it. At the time (during an hour lecture on the history of Korean language) I thought it was a cool fact, but didn't think to write down the name of the tribe... Oh well, you live and learn.


It looks like it was a tribe in Indonesia (your memory for detail appears to work like mine! ): The Hangeul Alphabet Moves beyond the Korean Peninsula.


----------



## andyjeffries

Thanks guys. My memory is actually shockingly terrible, so the fact I remembered it all is success to me. Right, Indonesia for next time this snippet comes up! Thanks again.


----------



## Rough Rider

I found a Hangul chart that is very detailed, but I know that detail does not always mean accurate.  Can you verify the accuracy of this chart?


----------



## KangTsai

Rough Rider said:


> I found a Hangul chart that is very detailed, but I know that detail does not always mean accurate.  Can you verify the accuracy of this chart?


Seems pretty good to me.


----------



## thanson02

Rough Rider said:


> I found a Hangul chart that is very detailed, but I know that detail does not always mean accurate.  Can you verify the accuracy of this chart?


That is awesome!  Thank you for sharing.  [emoji16]

Sent from my XT1096 using Tapatalk


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## TrueJim

FYI, here's a less detailed diagram, incorporating Ryan Estrada's clever mnemonics. 






At our schools, members of the Leadership Team are required to know how to write their name in Hangul:


----------



## Rough Rider

I'm a little confused about how to pronounceㅐ.  I'm learning a lot by reading, but pronunciation is tough because I don't know any native speakers.  Anyway, my chart gives the example "pan", while TrueJim's chart gives the example "stray."  Those are completely different sounds, and I believe "stray" is correct, but I've seen the other example in other places as well (like "hand"). 

 In another thread, somebody shared a video that demonstrated the proper pronunciation of Taekwondo, and it sounded more like "stray."  My instructors, like most Americans, say "tie".  So, if "Tae" isn't supposed to sound like "tan" without the "n", why do so many Korean study guides list it like that?


----------



## TrueJim

I'm not an expert, but...

I like this source for pronunciation help: Hangeul step 3 - Korean Wiki Project


When discussing vowels in any language, here's something to keep in mind:

You and I might hear "ay" and "ay" and they'll sound exactly alike to our ears. But to somebody raised in another language, they'll sound like very different "ay's". 

Researchers did this experiment years ago in which infants were given a treat whenever a certain Eskimo (Inuit) "oh" sound was made, but not a treat when a different Eskimo "oh" sound was made. To your ears and mine, these were absolutely identical sounds! (I remember watching the video and thinking -- "But those sound absolutely identical!") But to Eskimos, these were two different "oh's". The infants were being taught to anticipate a treat if they heard one vowel but not the other. As I recall, researchers learned that, by about month 9, infants lose the ability to distinguish and learn new vowel sounds! 

By month 9, your brain has learned  all the vowel sounds that its ever going to learn; any vowel sound that's not in that set will be matched by your brain to the nearest-sounding vowel that you have learned.

To my ear, ㅐ sounds a lot more like "pay" than it does "pan"...but to a Korean it may sound like neither.


----------



## Rough Rider

That is absolutely fascinating, Jim.


----------



## Gerry Seymour

TrueJim said:


> I'm not an expert, but...
> 
> I like this source for pronunciation help: Hangeul step 3 - Korean Wiki Project
> 
> 
> When discussing vowels in any language, here's something to keep in mind:
> 
> You and I might hear "ay" and "ay" and they'll sound exactly alike to our ears. But to somebody raised in another language, they'll sound like very different "ay's".
> 
> Researchers did this experiment years ago in which infants were given a treat whenever a certain Eskimo (Inuit) "oh" sound was made, but not a treat when a different Eskimo "oh" sound was made. To your ears and mine, these were absolutely identical sounds! (I remember watching the video and thinking -- "But those sound absolutely identical!") But to Eskimos, these were two different "oh's". The infants were being taught to anticipate a treat if they heard one vowel but not the other. As I recall, researchers learned that, by about month 9, infants lose the ability to distinguish and learn new vowel sounds!
> 
> By month 9, your brain has learned  all the vowel sounds that its ever going to learn; any vowel sound that's not in that set will be matched by your brain to the nearest-sounding vowel that you have learned.
> 
> To my ear, ㅐ sounds a lot more like "pay" than it does "pan"...but to a Korean it may sound like neither.


I'm not familiar with that research, but I do remember research (back in the 1990's, perhaps) that indicated most people cannot learn entirely new phonemes after their brain matures (around age 17-20, for the areas involved). This is why people move to a new country, live there for 30 years, and never lose their heavy accent.


----------



## TrueJim

gpseymour said:


> I'm not familiar with that research....



I wish I could find that video on the Interwebs...the video of the Inuit woman saying "Oh" then "Oh" -- and the infant distinguishing between the sounds, is really amazing. When I was in college, we were shown the video in Anthropology 101 class -- but Google isn't helping me find that video now. Google does point me to references that infants learn their vowels at about month 6, and that the brain trains itself to "lump" slightly different vowel sounds into the same vowel-bucket, but it's not pointing me to anything that tells me when infants lose the ability to learn new vowels.


----------



## Gerry Seymour

TrueJim said:


> I wish I could find that video on the Interwebs...the video of the Inuit woman saying "Oh" then "Oh" -- and the infant distinguishing between the sounds, is really amazing. When I was in college, we were shown the video in Anthropology 101 class -- but Google isn't helping me find that video now. Google does point me to references that infants learn their vowels at about month 6, and that the brain trains itself to "lump" slightly different vowel sounds into the same vowel-bucket, but it's not pointing me to anything that tells me when infants lose the ability to learn new vowels.


If you happen across that again, I'd love to see it. I really need to go back and dig into some of the developmental research that has happened. I'm probably 20 years behind in most of what I know.


----------



## Jaeimseu

To get the American English long 'a' sound, you need two Korean syllables (에 + 이) as in James (제임스). This sometimes creates issues in understanding because words end up with differing numbers of syllables. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## KangTsai

TrueJim said:


> I'm not an expert, but...
> 
> I like this source for pronunciation help: Hangeul step 3 - Korean Wiki Project
> 
> 
> When discussing vowels in any language, here's something to keep in mind:
> 
> You and I might hear "ay" and "ay" and they'll sound exactly alike to our ears. But to somebody raised in another language, they'll sound like very different "ay's".
> 
> Researchers did this experiment years ago in which infants were given a treat whenever a certain Eskimo (Inuit) "oh" sound was made, but not a treat when a different Eskimo "oh" sound was made. To your ears and mine, these were absolutely identical sounds! (I remember watching the video and thinking -- "But those sound absolutely identical!") But to Eskimos, these were two different "oh's". The infants were being taught to anticipate a treat if they heard one vowel but not the other. As I recall, researchers learned that, by about month 9, infants lose the ability to distinguish and learn new vowel sounds!
> 
> By month 9, your brain has learned  all the vowel sounds that its ever going to learn; any vowel sound that's not in that set will be matched by your brain to the nearest-sounding vowel that you have learned.
> 
> To my ear, ㅐ sounds a lot more like "pay" than it does "pan"...but to a Korean it may sound like neither.


Here's an easy way to distinguish. In American, the "a" in "cater" would be ㅔ, whereas the "e" in "chess" would be ㅐ.


----------



## Rough Rider

KangTsai said:


> Here's an easy way to distinguish. In American, the "a" in "cater" would be ㅔ, whereas the "e" in "chess" would be ㅐ.



Dang, I thought it was the other way around.  I really wish I could find somebody to teach me in person, because learning online is just getting frustrating.  If I wanted to learn Spanish of French I could simply enroll in a class at my local Community College, but no such luck for Korean (I checked).


----------



## WaterGal

Rough Rider said:


> I'm a little confused about how to pronounceㅐ.  I'm learning a lot by reading, but pronunciation is tough because I don't know any native speakers.  Anyway, my chart gives the example "pan", while TrueJim's chart gives the example "stray."  Those are completely different sounds, and I believe "stray" is correct, but I've seen the other example in other places as well (like "hand").
> 
> In another thread, somebody shared a video that demonstrated the proper pronunciation of Taekwondo, and it sounded more like "stray."  My instructors, like most Americans, say "tie".  So, if "Tae" isn't supposed to sound like "tan" without the "n", why do so many Korean study guides list it like that?



It's more like "teh", I think, than "ta (minus the n)", at least to my ears. I think Americans tend to say it _tie-kwondo_ because that sounds more "natural" in English than _teh-kwondo_. Kind of like how English speakers say _kur-ra-tee_ instead of _kah-rah-teh.  _I know that there is similar issues the other way, too, I think it's kind of the nature of people borrowing words from other languages.  I studied Japanese in high school, and I remember learning such loan words as "konputa" (computer), "supaa" (supermarket), and "apato" (apartment".


----------



## serietah

에 and 애 are so close that I have heard they are losing their distinction even to native speakers. I'm fortunate enough to be able to learn from textbooks and native speakers so I was able to ask this question a while back. For *me* to pronounce the difference, 에 is more like the e in "chess" while 애 is more like a long a sound....but sometimes it's a short a sound lol. The vowels are easier than ㄹ for me though. That sound is the main source of my Korean learning headache. I just can't do it right the majority of the time.


----------



## KangTsai

serietah said:


> 에 and 애 are so close that I have heard they are losing their distinction even to native speakers. I'm fortunate enough to be able to learn from textbooks and native speakers so I was able to ask this question a while back. For *me* to pronounce the difference, 에 is more like the e in "chess" while 애 is more like a long a sound....but sometimes it's a short a sound lol. The vowels are easier than ㄹ for me though. That sound is the main source of my Korean learning headache. I just can't do it right the majority of the time.


Pronounce "lada." The "d" is a ㄹ.


----------



## Rough Rider

KangTsai said:


> Pronounce "lada." The "d" is a ㄹ.



Wait, what?  The "d" wouldn't be a ㄷ?  "lada" would be 라라?


----------



## KangTsai

Rough Rider said:


> Wait, what?  The "d" wouldn't be a ㄷ?  "lada" would be 라라?


Phoenically, yes. Notice how your tongue touches the roof of your mouth? That should happen.


----------



## andyjeffries

KangTsai said:


> *Phonetically*, yes. Notice how your tongue touches the roof of your mouth? That should happen.



You're the native Korean speaker, but this doesn't sound right to me. When I pronounce the word "lada" there's a tension and a harder exhale on the "d" than the Korean 라라 (almost like you build pressure and release it). And it's not just my pronunciation of 라라 either (which as a non-native Korean speaker may well be incorrect), I was in a Taekwondo shop on Tuesday and had them print one of my students' name 크라라 on to a dobok and different workers read it out loud to me multiple times to ensure it was correct (the guy at the till once, the lady who printed the vinyl and another guy who affixed it to the dobok) and the last two syllables didn't sound like "lada" then, otherwise I'd have questioned whether it was right.


----------



## KangTsai

andyjeffries said:


> You're the native Korean speaker, but this doesn't sound right to me. When I pronounce the word "lada" there's a tension and a harder exhale on the "d" than the Korean 라라 (almost like you build pressure and release it). And it's not just my pronunciation of 라라 either (which as a non-native Korean speaker may well be incorrect), I was in a Taekwondo shop on Tuesday and had them print one of my students' name 크라라 on to a dobok and different workers read it out loud to me multiple times to ensure it was correct (the guy at the till once, the lady who printed the vinyl and another guy who affixed it to the dobok) and the last two syllables didn't sound like "lada" then, otherwise I'd have questioned whether it was right.


Make gun sounds with your mouth. BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRT to be exact.


----------



## andyjeffries

It's a shame it's not easy to record audio on here. I think that would help a lot when it comes to discussing pronunciation. I use KakaoTalk and HelloTalk with friends and language partners and being able to discuss pronunciation and language with audio is MUCH easier! Such a shame...


----------



## Rabbitthekitten

Quick copy - paste from other thread.......

Is this the correct Korean. I'm think of getting it tattooed but thought I better check before I find out it actually says... 
Shoe
Table
Water
Onion
Face Paint

Never trust anything on the internet. Within reason.....


----------



## serietah

I know 인내 and 극기 are correct. Not sure about integrity. I can pronounce it but not spell it lol.


----------



## Tez3

andyjeffries said:


> You're the native Korean speaker, but this doesn't sound right to me. When I pronounce the word "lada" there's a tension and a harder exhale on the "d" than the Korean 라라 (almost like you build pressure and release it). And it's not just my pronunciation of 라라 either (which as a non-native Korean speaker may well be incorrect), I was in a Taekwondo shop on Tuesday and had them print one of my students' name 크라라 on to a dobok and different workers read it out loud to me multiple times to ensure it was correct (the guy at the till once, the lady who printed the vinyl and another guy who affixed it to the dobok) and the last two syllables didn't sound like "lada" then, otherwise I'd have questioned whether it was right.



Different accents as we have in the UK? My husband is from Yorkshire, I'm from London and we pronounce most words differently, I do it correctly though lol.

and we won't go into how Americans pronounce so many things differently, sometimes I'd think we are talking about very different things!


----------



## Ben S

KangTsai said:


> (Before you ask, check my profile)
> I posted this on the culture section earlier, but nobody goes there, ever. I have been going around correcting things in Korean language discussions, and turns out, people appreciate them thanks to the sheer number of people who do taekwondo on the forum. Yeah... So ask me stuff about the Korean language including taekwondo vocab. Thanks.



I'm so glad you asked! I trained in a Korean Zen martial art called shim gum do - the creator calls the empty-hand forms 'shin boep' - meaning body law or dharma. (www.shimgumdo.org) I believe the second word should be spelled 'beop' not 'boep' - Jinho Lee also confirms my belief that 'beop' is the correct spelling for law or way. Thanks for being there!


----------



## Ben S

KangTsai said:


> (Before you ask, check my profile)
> I posted this on the culture section earlier, but nobody goes there, ever. I have been going around correcting things in Korean language discussions, and turns out, people appreciate them thanks to the sheer number of people who do taekwondo on the forum. Yeah... So ask me stuff about the Korean language including taekwondo vocab. Thanks.



In the buddhist temple where I trained - www.shimgumdo.org, they refer to the creator's empty-hand forms with the term - SHIN BOEP - meaning body dharma / law. I believe the second word is incorrect and the correct term should be SHIN BEOP - author Jinho Lee (Key to Internal Arts Book) appears to agree that is beop - can you confirm? Thanks!


----------



## TrueJim

Tez3 said:


> ...and we won't go into how Americans pronounce so many things differently, sometimes I'd think we are talking about very different things!



"We have really everything in common with America nowadays...except of course language." - Oscar Wilde


----------



## KangTsai

Ben S said:


> In the buddhist temple where I trained - www.shimgumdo.org, they refer to the creator's empty-hand forms with the term - SHIN BOEP - meaning body dharma / law. I believe the second word is incorrect and the correct term should be SHIN BEOP - author Jinho Lee (Key to Internal Arts Book) appears to agree that is beop - can you confirm? Thanks!


It does mean "body way."


----------



## KangTsai

Tez3 said:


> Different accents as we have in the UK? My husband is from Yorkshire, I'm from London and we pronounce most words differently, I do it correctly though lol.
> 
> and we won't go into how Americans pronounce so many things differently, sometimes I'd think we are talking about very different things!


Korean accents and dialects don't work like that. The variation occurs exclusively in intonation and volcabulary, not pronounciation. Think German dialects: Bayerisch is way different from standard German, but still have the same pronounciation for phoenic features.


----------



## KangTsai

Rabbitthekitten said:


> Quick copy - paste from other thread.......
> 
> Is this the correct Korean. I'm think of getting it tattooed but thought I better check before I find out it actually says...
> Shoe
> Table
> Water
> Onion
> Face Paint
> 
> Never trust anything on the internet. Within reason.....


It's real archaic Korean, but it's right. I guarantee it will look cooler (if not more pretentious) in Chinese characters, but that's up to you.


----------



## Ben S

KangTsai said:


> It does mean "body way."



Thanks - Right - but my question to you was actually - BOEP or BEOP for the word way / dharma?


----------



## KangTsai

Ben S said:


> Thanks - Right - but my question to you was actually - BOEP or BEOP for the word way / dharma?


Well it's pronounced "bo(b)" anyway, but Wiktionary tells me it's beop.


----------



## Ben S

KangTsai said:


> Well it's pronounced "bo(b)" anyway, but Wiktionary tells me it's beop.



Thanks for your help with this.


----------



## Rabbitthekitten

KangTsai said:


> It's real archaic Korean, but it's right. I guarantee it will look cooler (if not more pretentious) in Chinese characters, but that's up to you.



Why would I have it in Chinese? Genuine question.


----------



## KangTsai

Rabbitthekitten said:


> Why would I have it in Chinese? Genuine question.


Because you can have all of them in hanja and it's identical.


----------



## Buka

Ben S said:


> I'm so glad you asked! I trained in a Korean Zen martial art called shim gum do - the creator calls the empty-hand forms 'shin boep' - meaning body law or dharma. (www.shimgumdo.org) I believe the second word should be spelled 'beop' not 'boep' - Jinho Lee also confirms my belief that 'beop' is the correct spelling for law or way. Thanks for being there!



Welcome to MartialTalk, Ben.


----------



## Rabbitthekitten

KangTsai said:


> Because you can have all of them in hanja and it's identical.



Ok. I'm going to sound stupid now. But what does that actually mean?


----------



## Ben S

Buka said:


> Welcome to MartialTalk, Ben.



Thanks Buka! Friendly place here.


----------



## Ben S

Buka said:


> Welcome to MartialTalk, Ben.



Thanks Buka - friendly place here!


----------



## TrueJim

Rabbitthekitten said:


> Why would I have it in Chinese? Genuine question.



You know how in English when people want a tattoo to look fancy, they'll do the tattoo in like a gothic font? In English, fonts like gothic fonts looks serious and weighty -- like they're carrying the weight of history with them. People generally don't do tattoos in fonts that look clean and modern (generally). 

That's like hanja (Chinese characters) in Korea. Hanja (Korea's older, Chinese-based writing system) is for when you want something to look serious and weighty. Hangul is for when you want something to look modern, clean, and easily readable. That having been said, most western eyes probably wouldn't notice the difference anyway -- so I'd go for whichever one you thinks looks coolest.


----------



## Gnarlie

KangTsai said:


> Korean accents and dialects don't work like that. The variation occurs exclusively in intonation and volcabulary, not pronounciation. Think German dialects: Bayerisch is way different from standard German, but still have the same pronounciation for phoenic features.


Bavarian differs from High German in vocabulary, intonation and phonetic characteristics too.

My experiences in Korea travelling with Koreans would indicate that people from different areas of Korea can have problems understanding each other...

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


----------



## Tez3

Gnarlie said:


> Bavarian differs from High German in vocabulary, intonation and phonetic characteristics too.



When we lived in Germany we were up Kleve  (North Rhine-Westphalia) way and noticed that when we went to the south of Germany actual words were different but we also noticed that in France, northern French is quite different from Provencal French, though the fact they do have their own language like the Bretons may have a lot to do with that.


----------



## KangTsai

Gnarlie said:


> Bavarian differs from High German in vocabulary, intonation and phonetic characteristics too.
> 
> My experiences in Korea travelling with Koreans would indicate that people from different areas of Korea can have problems understanding each other...
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


Only people from jejudo. Most are different on the same "severity" of British vs. American, but Jejudo vs. Satndard is like Jamaican patois to standard.


----------



## Finlay

I have a question about Korean terminology

the term 'uke' in Japanese was incorrectly translated as to block, i believe the meaning is actually closer 'to receive'

Was there a similar mistranslation in taekwondo with the term 'makgi'?


----------



## TrueJim

Finlay said:


> Was there a similar mistranslation in taekwondo with the term 'makgi'?



I'm not an expert, but I've ready elsewhere that _makgi_ means to interrupt or forestall. So to your point, it doesn't really mean "block" per se. You're not blocking the opponent's attack, you're interrupting it.


----------



## Gerry Seymour

Finlay said:


> I have a question about Korean terminology
> 
> the term 'uke' in Japanese was incorrectly translated as to block, i believe the meaning is actually closer 'to receive'
> 
> Was there a similar mistranslation in taekwondo with the term 'makgi'?


That's interesting. I've never actually heard "uke" used to mean "to block". I've always used "uke" to mean the person receiving the technique, and "ukemi" refers to the body of techniques that person will use (mostly referring to falls and rolls, but also including delivering good attacks, etc.). At least one of those is probably a mistranslation, too. Mind you, we don't use a lot of Japanese in our training, so it may be more commonly used that way than my experience shows.


----------



## KangTsai

Finlay said:


> I have a question about Korean terminology
> 
> the term 'uke' in Japanese was incorrectly translated as to block, i believe the meaning is actually closer 'to receive'
> 
> Was there a similar mistranslation in taekwondo with the term 'makgi'?





TrueJim said:


> I'm not an expert, but I've ready elsewhere that _makgi_ means to interrupt or forestall. So to your point, it doesn't really mean "block" per se. You're not blocking the opponent's attack, you're interrupting it.


Nah, it just means blocking. We. Must. Be Accurate. Dangit.


----------



## Tony Dismukes

gpseymour said:


> That's interesting. I've never actually heard "uke" used to mean "to block". I've always used "uke" to mean the person receiving the technique, and "ukemi" refers to the body of techniques that person will use (mostly referring to falls and rolls, but also including delivering good attacks, etc.). At least one of those is probably a mistranslation, too. Mind you, we don't use a lot of Japanese in our training, so it may be more commonly used that way than my experience shows.


The Japanese names of the "blocks"* in karate generally include the word "uke", as in "Jodan Uke" (upper block).






I think the literal translation is something closer to "receive", as in you are receiving the punch and handling it appropriately. For arts in the jujutsu family of course, uke is the person receiving the technique being demonstrated.

*(If you read enough threads in the Karate forums you will see there is _considerable_ debate regarding the "correct" meaning and application of these techniques. Are they blocks, strikes, parries, grappling techniques hidden in the bunkai, all of the above, something else? Opinions vary widely.)


----------



## Tez3

Tony Dismukes said:


> *(If you read enough threads in the Karate forums you will see there is _considerable_ debate regarding the "correct" meaning and application of these techniques. Are they blocks, strikes, parries, grappling techniques hidden in the bunkai, all of the above, something else? Opinions vary widely.)



A lot of us just think they are there to be used in whichever way is the most effective at the time you need them.


----------



## Gerry Seymour

Tony Dismukes said:


> The Japanese names of the "blocks"* in karate generally include the word "uke", as in "Jodan Uke" (upper block).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think the literal translation is something closer to "receive", as in you are receiving the punch and handling it appropriately. For arts in the jujutsu family of course, uke is the person receiving the technique being demonstrated.
> 
> *(If you read enough threads in the Karate forums you will see there is _considerable_ debate regarding the "correct" meaning and application of these techniques. Are they blocks, strikes, parries, grappling techniques hidden in the bunkai, all of the above, something else? Opinions vary widely.)


Interesting. Both my Karate instructors (lo, those many years ago) used English names for everything.


----------



## Tez3

gpseymour said:


> Interesting. Both my Karate instructors (lo, those many years ago) used English names for everything.



I've always had them in Japanese too.


----------



## Finlay

OK

So here's another one what is the Korean equivalent of bunkai


----------



## Metal

Finlay said:


> what is the Korean equivalent of bunkai



풀이 puri - explanation

That's what the KTA is using for "Taekwondo Poomsae Explanation".


----------



## andyjeffries

Finlay said:


> So here's another one what is the Korean equivalent of bunkai



분해 - Boonhae (literally: interpretation)

Source: I asked my friend Master Jeong In-Choul (expert and author of multiple books on applying Taekwondo to the real world)


----------



## Martial D

KangTsai said:


> (Before you ask, check my profile)
> I posted this on the culture section earlier, but nobody goes there, ever. I have been going around correcting things in Korean language discussions, and turns out, people appreciate them thanks to the sheer number of people who do taekwondo on the forum. Yeah... So ask me stuff about the Korean language including taekwondo vocab. Thanks.


Can you translate Hyunas smash hit, Bubble Pop, in its entirety?


----------



## andyjeffries

Metal said:


> 풀이 puri - explanation
> 
> That's what the KTA is using for "Taekwondo Poomsae Explanation".



I don't know what book you are referring to but Grandmaster Kang Ik-pil's book "The explanation of official Taekwondo poomsae II" is titled in Korean "태권도 공인품새 해설" (Taekwondo Kongin Poomsae Haeseol) means literally Taekwondo official-poomsae explanation/commentary/interpretation.

The equivalent word for Bunkai is definitely Boonhae. From my understanding those involved in creating the Kukkiwon poomsae have stated that there are no hidden applications beyond the movements present, so while the word is there, the hidden applications that people think of as Bunkai have no direct equivalent.


----------



## Metal

andyjeffries said:


> I don't know what book you are referring to but Grandmaster Kang Ik-pil's book "The explanation of official Taekwondo poomsae II" is titled in Korean "태권도 공인품새 해설" (Taekwondo Kongin Poomsae Haeseol) means literally Taekwondo official-poomsae explanation/commentary/interpretation.



I'm referring to the "KTA Taekwondo Poomsae Application" (KTA 태권도 품새 풀이) book:

KTA 태권도 품새풀이 (QR)

Same publisher as the book from Kang Ik-Pil.

Anyway, as there are several words to say it in English there are also several ways to say it in Korean. Just like terms for techniques there may be several rights. ;-)


----------



## andyjeffries

Metal said:


> I'm referring to the "KTA Taekwondo Poomsae Application" (KTA 태권도 품새 풀이) book:
> 
> KTA 태권도 품새풀이 (QR)
> 
> Same publisher as the book from Kang Ik-Pil.
> 
> Anyway, as there are several words to say it in English there are also several ways to say it in Korean. Just like terms for techniques there may be several rights. ;-)



Hahaha, you're right there ;-)

I think in this case though, Bunkai and Boonhae share the same Hanja.


----------



## KangTsai

Hi guys. I am not dead and I declare this thread still relevant. I've gone for about a month and a half.


----------



## Tez3

Have you felt neglected?


----------



## Rough Rider

As part of my self-study, I'm translating our classroom commands that are only said in English, into Korean.  At the end of each class, before we bow out, the instructor says "Turn around, kneel down, and fix your uniform."

I've got "Turn around" 뒤로 돌아 and "Fix your uniform" 도복단정.  Can you help me out with "Kneel down"?


----------



## KangTsai

Rough Rider said:


> As part of my self-study, I'm translating our classroom commands that are only said in English, into Korean.  At the end of each class, before we bow out, the instructor says "Turn around, kneel down, and fix your uniform."
> 
> I've got "Turn around" 뒤로 돌아 and "Fix your uniform" 도복단정.  Can you help me out with "Kneel down"?


"Fix your uniform" would be something like 도복정리, although I don't know if Korean classes say it at all. I don't know if they say 뒤로돌아 either, as it's informal and such commands would be said in noun form and not imperative. For kneel, it would probably be 무릅! or 무릅꿇어.


----------



## Gnarlie

KangTsai said:


> "Fix your uniform" would be something like 도복정리, although I don't know if Korean classes say it at all. I don't know if they say 뒤로돌아 either, as it's informal and such commands would be said in noun form and not imperative. For kneel, it would probably be 무릅! or 무릅꿇어.


Korean instructors I know use 뒤로돌아 for turn around.

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## KangTsai

Gnarlie said:


> Korean instructors I know use 뒤로돌아 for turn around.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


Thanks for clarity.


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## Gwai Lo Dan

Gnarlie said:


> Korean instructors I know use 뒤로돌아 for turn around.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk



Is that "Dwi-ro Do-ra" or "Do-ra"? I've heard both.


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## Gnarlie

Gwai Lo Dan said:


> Is that "Dwi-ro Do-ra" or "Do-ra"? I've heard both.


The former for an about-face 180 degree turn.


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## KangTsai

Gwai Lo Dan said:


> Is that "Dwi-ro Do-ra" or "Do-ra"? I've heard both.


4 characters = 4 syllables.
First one is turn back, and second is just turn.


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## Jaeimseu

We definitely used 뒤로돌아 in Korea, and I use it in my dojang in the US, too. 


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## Rough Rider

I was looking at the web site of a local Tang Soo Do school and saw a picture of their logo.  It said 담무수.  What does that mean?


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## KangTsai

Rough Rider said:


> I was looking at the web site of a local Tang Soo Do school and saw a picture of their logo.  It said 담무수.  What does that mean?


Are you sure you read correctly? All I get from a search is of a Babylonian god lol.


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## Gerry Seymour

KangTsai said:


> Are you sure you read correctly? All I get from a search is of a Babylonian god lol.


Ah, the Babylonian lineage of TSD!


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## Rough Rider




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## Gnarlie

Rough Rider said:


>


That says 당수 and 무. Dang Soo and Mu. Mu as in Mudo. 

If you look closely the Hangul is stylised and the ㅇ has rounded corners. 
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## Rough Rider

Gnarlie said:


> That says 당수 and 무. Dang Soo and Mu. Mu as in Mudo.
> 
> If you look closely the Hangul is stylised and the ㅇ has rounded corners.
> Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk



So, we have a confusing font, symbols out of order, and an incomplete word.  Bonus points for the probable trademark violation with the fist and wreath.

My question now is: What does Mudo mean?  Also, is it common practice to shorten it to "Mu"?


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## Gnarlie

Rough Rider said:


> So, we have a confusing font, symbols out of order, and an incomplete word.  Bonus points for the probable trademark violation with the fist and wreath.
> 
> My question now is: What does Mudo mean?  Also, is it common practice to shorten it to "Mu"?


Martial arts...the Korean rendering of what the Japanese call Budo. 

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## Azulx

Does Ryu mean anything in Korean?


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## Gnarlie

Azulx said:


> Does Ryu mean anything in Korean?


Wave 류

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## Azulx

Gnarlie said:


> Wave 류
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk



What does Joong Do Ryu mean?


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## Gnarlie

Azulx said:


> What does Joong Do Ryu mean?


In what context? Do you have the Hangul? 

I suspect the Hanja 
靑濤館
Would apply. 

Qingdao

Or Hangul

청도

Meaning "Blue Way" / "Blue Flow" 

As in Cheong Do Kwan

청도관 "Blue Wave School" 

I suspect Joong Do Ryu is a variant like

청도류

Which would be something like "Blue Wave Way"

Unless the "Ryu" is adopted from Japanese "Ryu" meaning School or Chapter. Which would again mean Blue Wave School. 

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## Azulx

Gnarlie said:


> In what context? Do you have the Hangul?
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk



I can't find it, it is in regards to Joong Do Ryu Hapkido/Taekwondo


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## Gnarlie

Azulx said:


> I can't find it, it is in regards to Joong Do Ryu Hapkido/Taekwondo


It might also be

중도

中道

"middle way"

중도류

"middle way wave/flow"

"the way of moderate flow" 

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## Gnarlie

I miss KangTsai's input... 

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## TrueJim

Gnarlie said:


> I miss KangTsai's input...



There's always Learn and teach the Korean language. • r/Korean


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## skribs

I've read that while Rosetta Stone is great for teaching Western-Western languages (i.e. to teach an English speaker French, Spanish, or German) it doesn't work well for Korean.  What's the best way for someone to learn Korean?


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## andyjeffries

Personally I found Rosetta Stone fairly useless for Korean. The grammar and structure is too different for learning easily from pictures (as an adult). I also tried Linguaphone many many years ago.

In terms of online things, I'd say maybe TalkToMeInKorean's YouTube series, books and MP3s.

I've been learning for about 3 years with tutors on iTalki.com and can't recommend them enough. You get private 1-1 video lessons over Skype with native speakers (either qualified teachers, or community teachers depending on how much you want to pay). I have nothing to do with their company, just a happy customer.


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## Sappipullo

No idea if this thread is still alive, but I am stuck with two terms in Korean: sliding and stamping. Stamping motion ("goorugi dongjak") is in Toi Gye and sliding motion is in Hwa Rang. So I want to know the Hangul version.

If anyone is interested, I am working on a list of all ITF TKD color belt moves, stances, and tuls in Hangul, so I can use text-to-speech to practice my (TKD) Korean listening comprehension.


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## andyjeffries

Sappipullo said:


> No idea if this thread is still alive, but I am stuck with two terms in Korean: sliding and stamping. Stamping motion ("goorugi dongjak") is in Toi Gye and sliding motion is in Hwa Rang. So I want to know the Hangul version.
> 
> If anyone is interested, I am working on a list of all ITF TKD color belt moves, stances, and tuls in Hangul, so I can use text-to-speech to practice my (TKD) Korean listening comprehension.



Stamping motion = 구르기 동작
Sliding motion = maybe 미끄러지 동작 (미끄러지 means sliding/slipping, 동작 means movement/motion)

In Kukkiwon, we use "fast foot" 빨른 발 when we mean a sliding/fast skipping kick, so I'm not sure about ITF terminology.


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## Sappipullo

Thanks a lot!


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## Acronym

What does Taekwondo mean in formal language to a Korean? (not just word for word)


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## dvcochran

Tae = Foot or Kick 
Kwon = Fist or Punch
Do = Way

Literally meaning the Way of the Foot and Fist. So the emphasis is on the Do or mental component, making use of the word 'Way' quite apt and accurate. 
I am not aware of any differences in formal language.


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## andyjeffries

I thought there was more subtlety to it than that, but that those are the simplistic translations. For example, the verb "to kick" in Korean is Chada (차다), and punch is Jireuda (지르다) and Taekwondo doesn't use those words.

I understood Tae to be closer to "to stamp and smash with the feet", Kwon to be "to destroy with the arms" and Do to be "a way of self improvement".

But I left it alone because @Acronym asked for "to a Korean", so I didn't want to jump in with my understanding, which may be incorrect and/or limited.


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