# Pakal vs Saksak



## arnisandyz (Feb 28, 2002)

Anybody have comments on what you prefer?  Pakal (icepick) or Saksak (hammer) grip. Each has respective structural advantages/disadvantages over another, and in many cases you have no choice but what you find yourself in, but does anyone prefer one over another, and why?


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## Edge First (Feb 28, 2002)

Grip is determined by range, if up close and personal icepick s is cool. If further away then hammer grip is the one for me. 

Stay safe


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## Cthulhu (Feb 28, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Edge First _
> *Grip is determined by range, if up close and personal icepick s is cool. If further away then hammer grip is the one for me.
> 
> Stay safe *



Gah!  I don't have enough skill with the blade to answer yet.  Maybe after learning some more vital templates, I could form an opinion (hint hint) 

Cthulhu


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## arnisandyz (Feb 28, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Edge First _
> *Grip is determined by range, if up close and personal icepick s is cool. If further away then hammer grip is the one for me.
> 
> Stay safe *




I think you can also say the opposite, Range is determined by grip.  Someone who likes icepick grip will naturally like to fight close-in and someone who likes hammer will stay on the outside picking thier shots.


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## Cthulhu (Feb 28, 2002)

Would having a single- or double-edged blade also be a factor?

Cthulhu


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## arnisandyz (Feb 28, 2002)

Also, we train to fight in whatever grip you find yourself in, changing the fight strategy in accordance to the grip.  You probably won't have time to determine "your in close range so go to to icepick grip", and even though we train to switch grips in the flow,  I would not feel comfortable doing it under stress, I'd rather keep a secure grip no matter what orientation it is.


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## arnisandyz (Feb 28, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Cthulhu _
> *Would having a single- or double-edged blade also be a factor?
> 
> Cthulhu *




Could be.  Moreso in Icepick.  With a single edge you can have blade in, which would allow cuts while hooking and trapping, or blade out, which would give you an outer cutting area (thing of an elbow strike).  With double edge you have both.

Size of the knife could also be a factor.


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## Edge First (Mar 1, 2002)

The only constant thing about combat is it constantly changes. So why limit yourself to one grip or another. Yes there is a possibility you could drop it but the more you practice with your trainer the better you become at changing grips. Of course nothing is 100% guaranteed.
I personally prefer a single edge . less likely to cut myself and I always face the cutting edge to the opponent hence Edge First

Just my preference  Stay safe


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## knifeman.dk (Mar 1, 2002)

It doesn`t matter which grip the attacker use or if it is a double or single edged weapon!
Only if you practise your own way of attacking / blade style or practise fine motorskill to perfect a certain technique.
In case of an attack with a bladed weapon, the defender will not have time to determine wich grip is in use and only if the defender is lucky will he/she even see the knife comming.
:asian:


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## arnisandyz (Mar 1, 2002)

> _Originally posted by knifeman.dk _
> *It doesn`t matter which grip the attacker use or if it is a double or single edged weapon!
> Only if you practise your own way of attacking / blade style or practise fine motorskill to perfect a certain technique.
> In case of an attack with a bladed weapon, the defender will not have time to determine wich grip is in use and only if the defender is lucky will he/she even see the knife comming.
> :asian: *



You bring up a good point.  i wasn't thinking so much of what grip the other person has, but what grip  you have. And I agree, in the end, it doesn't really matter what grip you have, you will (should) respond without thinking about it.  If you thinking to much, what grip he has, what grip I am going to use or change too, it will be to late.  While your thinking, he is cutting.

Just my opinion.


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## knifeman.dk (Mar 3, 2002)

Well, if you want to "play" with knives, then the grip also must depend on the blade - lenght, weight and shape of the weapon also have influence on your grip.
By the way - so do blood! Get cut! and try holding on to your knife 
You can avoid the blood during practise and just stick to babyoil - its more fun and just as fluid. 
This applays especially for us - who say that you WILL get cut during a knifefight.
sincerely:asian:


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