# Excellent teaching clip



## guy b. (Sep 11, 2015)

Excellent teaching clip by Philipp Bayer:


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## wckf92 (Sep 11, 2015)

care to expand on what part(s) you thought were excellent?


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## geezer (Sep 11, 2015)

wckf92 said:


> care to expand on what part(s) you thought were excellent?



Bayer's skill as always impresses, and he seemed to have a very positive attitude toward his student. But in most of the clip he was overwhelming the student. Putting on the pressure certainly has its place. I just didn't see him getting  a lot of good reactions out of his student. Could be many reasons for that, but as a teacher/educator in my day job, I judge teaching first by what you can bring out of the student. Same goes for WC.


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## guy b. (Sep 11, 2015)

geezer said:


> Bayer's skill as always impresses, and he seemed to have a very positive attitude toward his student. But in most of the clip he was overwhelming the student. Putting on the pressure certainly has its place. I just didn't see him getting  a lot of good reactions out of his student. Could be many reasons for that, but as a teacher/educator in my day job, I judge teaching first by what you can bring out of the student. Same goes for WC.



He's showing mistakes and holes in what the student is doing, he is showing how to exploit those problems, and he is also showing how to correct them. The student is going to have to go away and work on it himself and with partners, but he has a gold mine of stuff to work with there.


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## guy b. (Sep 11, 2015)

wckf92 said:


> care to expand on what part(s) you thought were excellent?



See reply to geezer


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## Marnetmar (Sep 12, 2015)

In addition to having amazing skill, Philip Bayer seems like a guy you'd just want to hang out with.


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## LFJ (Sep 12, 2015)

Interesting how guy b. now has an explanation for what he sees in PB training clips, when just over a month ago he had no idea what was going on and was quite critical of it.

Philipp Bayer videos


> If Bayer is overwhelming students that are not moving and feeding honestly and effectively then this damages his own skill and only boosts his ego. It is a pointless extercise.



As I said over there, many times its the cool stuff where PB is overwhelming the student that gets edited and uploaded. It's showing how his VT works and giving students inspiration and a goal to train hard toward.

From my post #5 there:



> Just to be clear, you aren't under the impression that the other videos are "PB against VT fighters", are you?
> 
> They aren't fighting or going _against_ each other. You'll notice in most clips there are a group of students gathered around watching (and listening, but you can't hear what has been or is being explained). He's usually at a seminar teaching a new drill and the student he's using is also trying to learn along with those watching, hence the apparent "hesitation". They aren't trying to hit him. They are trying to learn a drill, then partner up and work on it. What the drill actually is or why they are doing what they're doing is often unapparent from a few seconds outtake with no explanation. You'd have to be in the room to understand what's going on, know the drill, and/or understand the concepts and training methods of the system. A drill may be where one student is purposely just feeding punches to allow his partner to work on certain aspects of attack. Without knowing that, you may be wondering why the person keeps getting hit or forced backward and doesn't seem to be "countering effectively". But this is partner drilling, not sparring.
> 
> That said, yes, often times he is simply overwhelming them. He's hard to deal with. That's usually the cool stuff that gets edited and uploaded. That's not to say that's all that happens in training, but it definitely brings out weaknesses to be worked on and showcases some of PB's speed, timing, accuracy, etc.; probably the main reason those clips are uploaded. I would say, just enjoy such clips for PB's skill without trying to make too much of it, because the entire situation is often not clear.


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## guy b. (Sep 12, 2015)

LFJ said:


> Interesting how guy b. now has an explanation for what he sees in PB training clips, when just over a month ago he had no idea what was going on and was quite critical of it.
> 
> Philipp Bayer videos
> 
> ...



What's 'interesting' about it? Do you suspect some kind of nefarious conspiracy?

This is an excellent teaching clip. Compilation vids of Bayer are not excellent anything vids because they don't convey any info and they are meaningless in terms of his dominance because, as you say, they are against students. This clip is much better.


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## LFJ (Sep 12, 2015)

He doesn't do tutorial videos, but all of his clips convey info to those who understand what they're looking at.


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## LFJ (Sep 12, 2015)

He doesn't do tutorial videos, but all of his clips convey info to those who understand what they're looking at.


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## geezer (Sep 12, 2015)

LFJ said:


> Interesting how guy b. now has an explanation for what he sees in PB training clips, when just over a month ago he had no idea what was going on and was quite critical of it.



Fair enough to ask Guy whether or not he's changed his mind re PB's videos and get some clarification. But not really helpful to drag up _old issues from another forum_. We've all worked hard to disagree respectfully and avoid the kind of unproductive bickering that pretty much ruined that other forum. Please all, let's keep it that way.


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## geezer (Sep 12, 2015)

guy b. said:


> Do you suspect some kind of nefarious conspiracy?



That would be hilarious! Except when people start to behave as if that's actually the case. ._..Beware the nefarious WC conspiracy!  



_
....you know, that would be a really good _signature line_ too.


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## guy b. (Sep 12, 2015)

LFJ said:


> He doesn't do tutorial videos, but all of his clips convey info to those who understand what they're looking at.



When it's a coherent clip it is easy to see what is happening. When it is disjointed seconds of Bayer dominating someone then not so much.


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## Tez3 (Sep 12, 2015)

geezer said:


> ._..Beware the nefarious WC conspiracy!_



If you'd been British I would have said that was going to go down the toilet..........


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## LFJ (Sep 13, 2015)

guy b. said:


> When it's a coherent clip it is easy to see what is happening. When it is disjointed seconds of Bayer dominating someone then not so much.



Perhaps because you're just looking at it as a fight. Every PB student can tell you exactly what's going on because they are familiar with the system and drilling methods.


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## guy b. (Sep 13, 2015)

LFJ said:


> Perhaps because you're just looking at it as a fight. Every PB student can tell you exactly what's going on because they are familiar with the system and drilling methods.



It obviously isn't a fight. Unfortunately without the context provided in this clip it is impossible to know the nature and quality of the treaching input, if any. That's why I said this is an excellent teaching clip.


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## LFJ (Sep 13, 2015)

Not entirely. If you are familiar with the system and training method, it's fairly easy to see what he's showing.


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## geezer (Sep 13, 2015)

LFJ said:


> Not entirely. If you are familiar with the system and training method, it's fairly easy to see what he's showing.



I believe you have a point. And it's equally true for clips of demos from other lineages. If you've trained to any depth in that lineage, you will automatically recognize and understand things that might be overlooked by an outsider.

I've seen clips of some of the people I've trained with critiqued by apparently experienced outsiders who  pick up on trivial aspects and seem to totally miss the point being made.

Another factor is that we all come to the table with a _bias_  (feigned horror and surprise)...especially in WC/VT/WT. That's just the way it is. Probably best just to be up front about it and accept that when we debate.


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## guy b. (Sep 15, 2015)

LFJ said:


> Not entirely. If you are familiar with the system and training method, it's fairly easy to see what he's showing.



As someone familiar with WSL VT I would say that it is only possible to know what he is doing in compilation clips  if you are familiar with the teaching style of Philipp Bayer. Since I have not trained with Mr Bayer it is not possible for me to know by looking at the compilation clips available. This however was an excellent teaching clip, as I believe I said before.


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