# smile  ;)



## Sapper6 (Jan 18, 2005)

...hope you guys enjoy this :idunno: 


COWS, CONSTITUTION AND TEN COMMANDMENTS 

COWS 
Is it just me, or does anyone else find it amazing that our government can track a cow born in Canada almost three years ago, right to the stall where she sleeps in the state of Washington. And they tracked her calves to their stalls. But they are unable to locate 11 million illegal aliens wandering around our country. Maybe we should give them all a cow. 


CONSTITUTION 
They keep talking about drafting a Constitution for Iraq. Why don't we just give them ours? It was written by a lot of really smart guys, it's worked for over 200 years and we're not using it anymore. 

TEN COMMANDMENTS 
The real reason that we can't have the Ten Commandments in a Courthouse! You cannot post "Thou Shalt Not Steal," "Thou Shalt Not Commit Adultery" and "Thou Shall Not Lie" in a building full of lawyers, judges and politicians! It creates a hostile work environment!


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## Zepp (Jan 18, 2005)

Nice.


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## Darksoul (Jan 18, 2005)

-So true, so true, so sad, so sad.

A---)


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## The Prof (Jan 18, 2005)

So very true.  Maybe they ought to use that cow finding technique to locate Osama bin Laden.


The Prof


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## OUMoose (Jan 19, 2005)

Heh.  I think the constitution one is the funniest out of the 3.


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## MisterMike (Jan 19, 2005)

When it was in development, that cow tracking system was deemed "project Hillary."


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## Feisty Mouse (Jan 19, 2005)

MisterMike said:
			
		

> When it was in development, that cow tracking system was deemed "project Hillary."


Wow.  

I'll keep the rest of my comments off of here.


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## rmcrobertson (Jan 19, 2005)

It's always been kinda interesting on how guys like Pat Robertson and Jimmy Swaggert, Oral Roberts and Bob Jones, manage to cite the Ten Commandments without bursting into flames.

But then, one also finds it hilarious that when a crackpot preacher and mediocre judge sneaks a two-ton rock into the courthouse in the middle of the night so he can suck up to the local rattlesnake-handlers and pump up his campaign for office, that means liberals hate God.


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## ghostdog2 (Jan 19, 2005)

I have spent way too much time in court houses, and your remarks about the 10 Commandmants are right on target.

The local Bar Association had to cancel its Christmas Pagaent this year. They couldn't find three wise men or a virgin.

Sorry, the old ones are the best ones.


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## rmcrobertson (Jan 19, 2005)

Hey, how'd Bush know that Hussein had WMDs?

We'd kept the receipts.

Was wondering, too--anybody heard from old Oral Roberts' 900-foot-tall thug Jesus lately?


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## MisterMike (Jan 19, 2005)

Anyone know where to get those Kerry/BinLaden '04 bumper stickers?


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## PeachMonkey (Jan 19, 2005)

MisterMike said:
			
		

> Anyone know where to get those Kerry/BinLaden '04 bumper stickers?


 Same place you find the Bush/Goebbels ones.


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## rmcrobertson (Jan 19, 2005)

Hey, what's the difference between Vietnam and Iraq?

Bush had a way to get out of Vietnam.


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## Melissa426 (Jan 19, 2005)

Feisty Mouse said:
			
		

> Wow.
> 
> I'll keep the rest of my comments off of here.


I'll follow your lead, but I bet we're thinking the same thing here.


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## shesulsa (Jan 19, 2005)

Melissa426 said:
			
		

> I'll follow your lead, but I bet we're thinking the same thing here.



Mmm-hmmmm.  Dittos.


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## MisterMike (Jan 19, 2005)

Wa? Wa? Wadd-I say??


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## Melissa426 (Jan 20, 2005)

MisterMike said:
			
		

> Wa? Wa? Wadd-I say??


I try very hard (and I freely admit that I don't always succeed) not to be rude or insulting when I respond to people's posts.  If someone has hit "below the belt" I try not to stoop to their level. 
No matter how much I disagree with someone, if I "attack" them, I try not to get personal or resort to "name-calling" , even public figures, ie. project Hillary 

Of course, not everyone on this forum agrees with this approach.  So be it. 

But don't play innocent, I think you know exactly what you said. 

Peace,
Melissa


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## shesulsa (Jan 20, 2005)

It's an on-going practice, it seems, to repeatedly take shots at women in this particular case.  The political stances are one thing.  Misogyny is another.

When one presents jokes repeatedly directed towards a certain sector of the population, the first few are funny.  The next few are trite.  The following few are tiresome and the rest are downright offensive.  This practice can also ruin one's credibility.


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## MisterMike (Jan 20, 2005)

OK, so name-calling is bad and "Hillary is not unlike a cow" = mysogyny?

I'd say the fact she is a "woman" is secondary, but when the "minority group" picks up on that - lookout!!!


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## shesulsa (Jan 20, 2005)

MisterMike, check your PM s in a few minutes.


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## ghostdog2 (Jan 20, 2005)

Project Hillary = Humor

Political Correctness = Not Funny

Was it the funniest joke I've ever "herd"? Nope. But it was kind of cute.
Really, feelings on sleeves and all.....

p.s. Don't desire to offend anyone and MM doesn't need help, but does anyone really think the PH joke was an attack on women? If so, you'll have to break the code for me and, I suspect, a few others.


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## rmcrobertson (Jan 20, 2005)

Jokes like that are always interesting. They reflect (as elsewhere mentioned) what Neil Hertz calls, "male anxiety under political pressure."

Why political? Well, oddly enough, even though Margaret Thatcher regularly got told, "Sit down, you cow," when she addressed Parliament, right-wing women--even truly monumentally crazy ones, like say Ann Coulter or Nancy reagan--never draw this sort of comment from right-wing men. One suspects that they become a combination of attractive dominatrix and mommy, but who knows?

With Senator Clinton, the political offense is most typicalloy turned toward an accusation--and it is always an accusation--of lesbianism. (As in, "How did Bill and Hillary meet? They were dating the same woman in college.") Of course, the real attack's on her feminism--but that can't be admitted, because that brings up the idea that it's a political disagreement that's at stake, and if we did that, then we can't express our hostility towards uppity women nearly as glibly and unconsciously. And anyway, the logic goes, all feminists are lesbians anyway.

Another way to put it is the stuff Freud talks about in, "The Uncanny," in "Jokes and Their Relation to the Unconscious," and in, "Psychopathology of Everyday Life." Women, being the Other, are a focus for the guy's fear and attraction--so, jokes help articulate both of these at once. Then there's this whole thing about castration anxiety--the beleaguered male subject goes back to early childhood fantasy, in which girls were seen as castrated boys, and if it can happen to them...see Freud's, "Little Hans," case study.

Jokes are also nice because they provide an alibi: anybody says anything about male anxiety/politics being connected, and you can always shoot back a) don't you have a sense of humor? b) it's just a joke, c) you libs always read too much into things...


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## RandomPhantom700 (Jan 20, 2005)

rmcrobertson:

Simply put, which jokes are acceptable to you, then?  Or to put it less critically, what type of jokes are face-value just meant to be funny?


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## rmcrobertson (Jan 20, 2005)

Nobody said anything about some jokes being unacceptable, or acceptable either for that matter. One merely commented on why jokes are funny....and was kinda kidding. Whatsa matter? No sense of humor?

In fact, the jokes about Senator Clinton--except for maybe the college dating one--aren't particularly funny at all. They're simply expressions of politically-based hostility.

The curious thing is, none of these people have ever met the woman. She hasn't done anything to them; there're no stories, in fact, about her even having been rude to anybody. There're lots of stories about her being smart, educated and assertive--so that must be the offense, eh?

On the other hand, we have--if we just want to get into the question of political women--Ann Coulter (who lies like crazy in easily demonstrable ways, and who acts like a nutcase on speed in a fashion unseen since Camille Paglia went out of style); Nancy Reagan (notorious for hiring a White House astrologer, and being what more than one guy who had to work with her idenfied as...unpleasant); Condoleeza Rice (known for being high-handed, patronizing, and dismissive of disagreements...oh yes, and wrong in some pretty important ways)...and a buncha others.

But no funnies about them, huh?


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## ghostdog2 (Jan 20, 2005)

Bill Clinton is walking on the beach when he finds a bottle with a Genii in it. Gets two (2) wishes. Okay, he says as he pulls out a map: I want Peace in the Middle East and fair national boundaries drawn out on this map;
Genie says: You must be nuts. That's impossible even for me; what else can I do for you?
Well, says Bill, as he pulls out a family portrait, I'd like you to make my wife Hillary and daughter Chelsea, beautiful, intelligent and well respected.
DAMN, said the Genie, let me see that map again......


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## Melissa426 (Jan 20, 2005)

ghostdog2 said:
			
		

> Project Hillary = Humor
> 
> Political Correctness = Not Funny
> 
> ...


I have no issue with people making jokes.  I have issues with people _pretending _they don't know why their joke might be offensive to some.

If MM wasn't pretending, then I see a problem.

Peace, 
Melissa


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## MisterMike (Jan 20, 2005)

Mooooooo.


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## Cryozombie (Jan 20, 2005)

Shesulsa said:
			
		

> It's an on-going practice, it seems, to repeatedly take shots at women in this particular case


Oh I see...

Its ok to make fun of MALE Political figures

but Not Female ones.  

GOT IT NOW.


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## PeachMonkey (Jan 20, 2005)

Technopunk said:
			
		

> Oh I see...
> 
> Its ok to make fun of MALE Political figures
> 
> ...


 Actually, her point was more that, as Robert has already clearly shown, the mocking of female political figures seems entirely focused on sexist insults ("cows", "ugliness", "moo").  If the mocking of male political figures were based on solely an equally sexist basis, you'd get a bit more sympathy.


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## shesulsa (Jan 20, 2005)

Thanks for the defense, PeachMonkey, and you are precisely correct.

I don't know if the other ladies where intimating the same idea, but that is my opinion and I'm stickin' to it.

Techno, check your PMs.


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## heretic888 (Jan 20, 2005)

> Another way to put it is the stuff Freud talks about in, "The Uncanny," in "Jokes and Their Relation to the Unconscious," and in, "Psychopathology of Everyday Life." Women, being the Other, are a focus for the guy's fear and attraction--so, jokes help articulate both of these at once. Then there's this whole thing about castration anxiety--the beleaguered male subject goes back to early childhood fantasy, in which girls were seen as castrated boys, and if it can happen to them...see Freud's, "Little Hans," case study.



Kind of ironic for a guy that come up with ideas like 'penis envy' and the 'Elektra complex' --- then again, it was his friends' kids he was diagnosing. 

Personally, if you're coming from the psychoanalystic school, I prefer the likes of Erik Erikson and Anna Freud (Freud's daughter). But, that's just me.


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## heretic888 (Jan 20, 2005)

Sapper6 said:
			
		

> TEN COMMANDMENTS
> The real reason that we can't have the Ten Commandments in a Courthouse! You cannot post "Thou Shalt Not Steal," "Thou Shalt Not Commit Adultery" and "Thou Shall Not Lie" in a building full of lawyers, judges and politicians! It creates a hostile work environment!



Yup. Don't suppose it doesn't have anything at all to do with that "Thou Shalt Have No Other God Before Me" one or anything.


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## Cryozombie (Jan 20, 2005)

PeachMonkey said:
			
		

> Actually, her point was more that, as Robert has already clearly shown, the mocking of female political figures seems entirely focused on sexist insults ("cows", "ugliness", "moo"). If the mocking of male political figures were based on solely an equally sexist basis, you'd get a bit more sympathy.


Ok... so...

All the compairsons of Bush looking like a Monkey... such as:

http://www.bushorchimp.com/

Is Differnet than Saying Hillary looks like a Cow.

Man = Animal = Not Sexist
Woman = Animal = Sexist

Right.  I get it.


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## Tgace (Jan 20, 2005)

Whats good for the goose...er.. cow....er.. monkey...ahh forget it.


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## shesulsa (Jan 20, 2005)

Technopunk said:
			
		

> Ok... so...
> 
> All the compairsons of Bush looking like a Monkey... such as:
> 
> ...



Can someone find that thread?  I could swear it was posted by ... hmmm... lessee ... a man?

Honestly, John.  My comments were not directed at you nor have I made any sexist statements.   Can you honestly point to any female here who has made a sexist statement on this thread?


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## Tgace (Jan 20, 2005)

Oh lighten up you guys er...people.

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20630&highlight=men
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19202&highlight=men
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7874&highlight=men

Is this about the joke, or the person in the joke?


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## rmcrobertson (Jan 20, 2005)

Wow, are guys ever....sensitive. A couple little posts explaining how jokes work and why misogyny's connected to politics, and whoof, there suddenly appears all sorts of weird claims.


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## heretic888 (Jan 20, 2005)

Meh. All jokes are just unconscious puns about samsara anyway...


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## Cryozombie (Jan 20, 2005)

shesulsa said:
			
		

> Can someone find that thread? I could swear it was posted by ... hmmm... lessee ... a man?
> 
> Honestly, John. My comments were not directed at you nor have I made any sexist statements. Can you honestly point to any female here who has made a sexist statement on this thread?


THIS thread? No. But the subject of male sexism was brought up IN THIS THREAD becayse someone compared Hillary to a Cow. I *still* dont see how thats different than calling Bush a Chimp. 

And I am TELLIN YA...I wasnt singling you out. I know the ones you make were jokes.  Probably like other posters, But whatever.


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## heretic888 (Jan 20, 2005)

I don't suppose anyone would come to the rather balanced, and accurate, acnknowledgement that there's a fair amount of sexism on both sides??  :idunno:


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## Feisty Mouse (Jan 20, 2005)

shesulsa said:
			
		

> Mmm-hmmmm. Dittos.


Melissa, shesulsa - yes, you did.

Funny how if women get tired of all their critiques - even of powerful women in politics - essentially targeting physical appearance and sexual attraction.

I'm tired of it.  Not funny.  

If someone made a clever political joke, great.

But saying, "Hey, did you see that Queen of England - wow, I wouldn't have sex with her!"  well, good for you.  

Men don't worry about this.  A disturbingly ugly man can be in power.  He's powerful, albeit disturbingly ugly.   An unattractive woman in power - or a woman guys may want to secretly have sex with, but they hate her politics, or find her a convenient whipping-boy, so to speak - gets targeted with comments that undermine her and reduce her to her looks alone.

I don't expect (most) guys to get it.  

And now, back to the regularly scheduled thread...


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## rmcrobertson (Jan 20, 2005)

Wow. A simple critical response or three that deal with the reality of patriarchy--Western culture depends upon keeping women as what De Beauvoir called, "the Other--" and ever'body gotta retreat.

1. The call on Bush came as a response.
2. There isn't a clear tradition of comparing men to chimps.
3. Senator Clinton didn't start an unnecessary war.
4. The point of the first poster on this thread was not to show that, yet again, jokes attacking men are the only funny jokes.


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## RandomPhantom700 (Jan 22, 2005)

Well, if want an equivalent of the woman=cow joke/insult, I'd suggest the common equation of a crooked male to a pig.  See?  Barnyard references for both genders.


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## Melissa426 (Jan 22, 2005)

RandomPhantom700 said:
			
		

> Well, if want an equivalent of the woman=cow joke/insult, I'd suggest the common equation of a crooked male to a pig. See? Barnyard references for both genders.


:soapbox: 


What you just aren't apparently getting is that the woman=cow joke is reference to physical appearance/beauty/size of hips,etc. NOTHING to do with political/personal accomplishments, ideology, etc. 

When I refer to a man as a pig, it's generally a reference to an attitude or personality, not looks.

I still think MLK jr. said it best: judge not by the color of skin (or any physical attributes) , but by the content of their character.
If you think Hillary is a sleezeball in her politcal leaning (which I don't--don't flame me) then by all means call her a snake or a rat or whatever, if we're making barnyard references.
Calling her (or any other woman) a cow because of her looks? Demeaning and offensive.

Off my soapbox,
Melissa


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## MisterMike (Jan 22, 2005)

So now we are told which animals we can call people. I just never would have made it in the Victorian era. Just can't be proper enough.

Does that mean most of the posters on this board can't use the term "Fat Cat" politician or "Fat Cat" businessman any longer? Or am I just not on the good list?

Does "Redneck" not refer to appearance either? I know nooobody has ever used that one here either.

Have a day.


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## shesulsa (Jan 22, 2005)

Now, see, what I'm noticing is not the "My reference was political, not sexist - did not intend to offend anyone" but rather the justification of the use of the term and the thumbing of the nose at those who did take offense.

One could glean from this that the offense was intended as a gender-based insult.  

So rather than glean or assume, I'm going to ask you outright, MisterMike:

Did you intend to insult Hillary Clinton based on her physical appearance and make an analogy based on her gender or were you insulting her in a political realm only?


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## MisterMike (Jan 22, 2005)

Political first, appearance (size only) second. Gender had nothin to do with it, conciously. Although, since the cow project was not named after bulls, I could have subconciously chosen the female politician because of that rather than Ted Kennedy.


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## ghostdog2 (Jan 22, 2005)

What's wrong with insulting Hillary? Is she some kind of Sacred Cow?


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## Tgace (Jan 22, 2005)

I think its time we put this thread to pasture.


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## ghostdog2 (Jan 22, 2005)

Right. No use milking it.


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## MisterMike (Jan 22, 2005)

Yep, time to put her down.


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## rmcrobertson (Jan 22, 2005)

1. Melissa nailed it.

2. Who told anybody what they could or couldn't do? All that was said was: a) here're the implications of what you're saying; b) here's what the history and current status of calling a woman a, "cow," seems to be; c) here's why you might want to think about this being lousy manners.

3. Yes, the poor, beleaguered white guy. We are SO under attack...


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## Sapper6 (Jan 23, 2005)

Tgace said:
			
		

> I think its time we put this thread to pasture.



yeah i agree.  i started this thread hoping just to get people to smile and laugh at ourselves...seems it's turned out to be something obviously different :idunno:


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## heretic888 (Jan 25, 2005)

Personally, I never knew "the white guy" comprised a single demographic....


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