# Now, I know why they killed him...



## Makalakumu (Apr 5, 2008)

Martin Luther King on "Why I oppose Vietnam."  Does anyone see any parallels?  Who else has been silenced?


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## Makalakumu (Apr 5, 2008)

"Beyond Vietnam" by MLK.


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## Makalakumu (Apr 5, 2008)

MLK's last speech, the day before he died.  He knew he was a target.  He was telling the people who threatened him to shove it.


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## grydth (Apr 5, 2008)

I'd be careful assuming that.... the sixties featured violent nutcases of every stripe shooting and bombing all over the country. Plus, there were any number of racists who'd have seen this black leader as a threat - look what happened in the South in that era.

I am not satisfied we know all who were involved in murdering Dr King - or all the awful reasons why.


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## Makalakumu (Apr 5, 2008)

I found this interesting, but this is really a parallel discussion to what I was trying to get at with this thread.  So much of what MLK said is STILL so relevent today.  In the 40 years since Vietnam, we have moved even further down the dark road that MLK predicted.

I'm pretty sure the military industrial complex had a hand in silencing Dr. King.  The aweful things this inspires should twist the guts of every American as we contemplate our present course.


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## Twin Fist (Apr 5, 2008)

Occam's Razor

vast conspiracy?
Lone nutbag?

whats simpler?


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## Ray (Apr 5, 2008)

Twin Fist said:


> Occam's Razor
> 
> vast conspiracy?
> Lone nutbag?
> ...


While MLK was killed by a long nutbag, he probably still got plenty of death threats.


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## newGuy12 (Apr 5, 2008)

upnorthkyosa said:


> MLK's last speech, the day before he died.  He knew he was a target.  He was telling the people who threatened him to shove it.


I was listening to this just the other day on the radio, and I am convinced for myself that he knew he was going to get hit!  If people believe in G-d, they may believe that King was given insight, that he was about to get killed? 

I have been thinking about this since I have heard that radio show.  I assume that if *I* were in his position, I would have been STRONGLY thinking about telling someone else, "You know the story now, you know the ideas, so YOU go talk from now on, and I am going to go into hiding."  Seriously.

But I know that this man King was not just talking some talk, he was ready to die for all of this type of social change.  I do not know a lot about this man, I have never studied him, but from that show, he was a regular guy, he had some goings on with women.  He was not a perfect guy, but yet, he was cock-strong about these freaking ideas, no joke, even to get killed.

He was not a martial artist, but I have a LOT of respect for this man.  I even started crying when I heard one of his speeches.  I am convinced that he truly believed in this "loving ways".  It was not just empty talk. 

This demonstrates to me that human beings can rise to a high level of thinking, of realizing important things, of great ways of living, of society.

Right.  Right now, though I am a dullard about history, I say, he inspires me now when I listen to these sound tracks!  No one is perfect, but he was a special person.


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## newGuy12 (Apr 5, 2008)

upnorthkyosa said:


> I'm pretty sure the military industrial complex had a hand in silencing Dr. King.  The aweful things this inspires should twist the guts of every American as we contemplate our present course.



I don't mean to write too much, but what does it matter?  There were historians on the show saying that King would only feel comfortable in rooms with no windows, because he was thinking, "I am going to get killed."  Also, he would look up quick when someone entered the room, thinking, "is this person here to kill me?" 

All manner of people wanted this guy to go away, for any number of reasons.  He was rocking the boat, yes.  Cutting against the grain, and not just for himself, but for something bigger than himself, that can persist into the future generations.  Again, no one is perfect, I am not one to declare anyone to be a saint, above humanness.

I just have to say, if this man were alive today, I would greatly like to take personal counsel from him, to hear him talk to me directly.  I can feel love from his speeches.  He greatly inspires me.  His speeches persist now.  I wish to thank the original poster for sharing these.


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## MA-Caver (Apr 5, 2008)

There is no doubt that black hating whites all over the country praised and rejoiced the man who pulled the trigger and hitting his target. Even where King was hit, the lower jaw, blasting it away to pieces, seem fitting to silencing a man who did his fighting with words of love, intolerance to hatred and brotherhood for all mankind. 
But it was Ray and his brothers alone that conspired to kill King. Many other groups may have had their own conspiracy and well laid plans but Ray beat them to it. Saving them the trouble. 
Just as many mourned the loss of John Kennedy when he was shot there were an equal number who rejoiced. Same with Bobby Kennedy. 
These men great as they were, much loved were also much hated. It was hatred that finally brought them down. This we must NEVER forget. The power of hate. 
Though love triumphed in the end as in the case of Dr. ML King we are seeing racism slowly but surely becoming a thing of the past. 
Yes, there are still hold outs bearing hate in their hearts but they are rapidly becoming a minority themselves and becoming fewer with each generation. In time it will be a bad memory, a bad dream. 
It is up to each of us to carry King's message to the generations before us. To see his Dream fulfilled.


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## Makalakumu (Apr 6, 2008)

I found somewhat stupid video about the MLK and FBI assassination link.  Apparently, according to the article presented in the video, Daniel Ellsberg, the pentagon papers writer and Watergate burgulary target, sent a notorized statement from a government official to the House Committee on Assassinations that implicated six off duty FBI officers in the attack.  Ellsberg's source came forward later and recanted that he gave Ellsberg.

I think that all this shows is that we probably don't know all of the circumstances surrounding MLK's death.  From the little research that I've done on the topic, I am not convinced it was Ray.  And from the things that he was saying in first speech the quo bono shadow falls on an unsurprising institution.  

I guess what surprises me most is that what MLK had to say about Vietnam 40 years ago, still applies today.  We, as a nation, are still facing the "triple evils" that he had expanded the movement he led to fight.  Militarism, materialism, and racism are religious issues and I believe that MLK was truly standing for what he believed by standing against them.

upnorthkyosa

ps - I wish I could have actually found the article rather then posting that video.  I disagree with the way that it was presented.  People with their Matrix fantasy irritate me.


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## Big Don (Apr 6, 2008)

> I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.


The part of the dream the DNC doesn't want to come true...


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## elder999 (Apr 6, 2008)

Big Don said:


> The part of the dream the DNC doesn't want to come true...


 
You know, Don-*enough*. Give it a rest.

My parents were Democrats-marched on Selma and Washington with Dr. King. I've voted Democrat, been a registered Republican, and now I am neither.

The Civil Rights act was championed by a _Democratic_ President, LBJ-a southerner from Texas who learned to think outside the box he'd been born in, and do what he thought was right for the country.

And sure, some Democrats have been segregationists, and some opposed the Civil Rights act, let's look at how the voting went on that act, shall we?

From  Wikipedia



> Vote totals
> Totals are in "Yes-No" format:
> 
> The original House version: 290-130   (69%-31%)
> ...


 

By your twisted logic, I suppose we could say that Westerners oppose Dr. King's dream, or Conservatives-since Barry Goldwater is one of their Congressional saints. Or,if you prefer, _Republicans_, since, apparently, all the _Southern_ Republicans but one opposed the Civil Rights Act. In any case, I'd like to know exactly how in the name of Buddha's beard, Mohammed's camel, and Jesus's blessed butthole,that the current DNC has any bearing on this thread, or the validity or _absolute pig-headed absurdity_ of your post. The fact is, Dr. King's "dream" will probably never come true  for this country-or anywhere else-until we're all one color-while some of us won't judge people by their skin color, most of us do make judgements based upon skin color-good and bad, black or white, yellow or red. The only place "the dream" really comes true is in your heart-the only country where it comes true is the one between *your* ears, and the "nation" that effects it is the people you keep fellowship with. 

Enough, already, huh?


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## Big Don (Apr 6, 2008)

elder999 said:


> You know, Don-enough. Give it a rest.
> 
> My parents were Democrats-marched on Selma and Washington with Dr. King. I've voted Democrat, been a registered Republican, and now I am neither.
> 
> ...


Gee, it wasn't the Republican parry who published this:
*Resolved, That we reiterate with renewed energy of purpose the well considered declarations of former Conventions upon the sectional issue of Domestic slavery, and concerning the reserved rights of the States. 
1. That Congress has no power under the Constitution, to interfere with or control the domestic institutions of the several States, and that such States are the sole and proper judges of everything appertaining to their own affairs, not prohibited by the Constitution; that all efforts of the abolitionists, or others, made to induce Congress to interfere with questions of slavery, or to take incipient steps in relation thereto, are calculated to lead to the most alarming and dangerous consequences; and that all such efforts have an inevitable tendency to diminish the happiness of the people and endanger the stability and permanency of the Union, and ought not to be countenanced by any friend of our political institutions. 
2. That the foregoing proposition covers, and was intended to embrace the whole subject of slavery agitation in Congress; and therefore, the Democratic party of the Union, standing on this national platform, will abide by and adhere to a faithful execution of the acts known as the compromise measures, settled by the Congress of 1850; "the act for reclaiming fugitives from service or labor," included; which act being designed to carry out an express provision of the Constitution, cannot, with fidelity thereto, be repealed, or so changed as to destroy or impair its efficiency. 
3. That the Democratic party will resist all attempts at renewing, in Congress or out of it, the agitation of the slavery question under whatever shape or color the attempt may be made. 
4. That the Democratic party will faithfully abide by and uphold, the principles laid down in the Kentucky and Virginia resolutions of 1798, and in the report of Mr. Madison to the Virginia Legislature in 1799; that it adopts those principles as constituting one of the main foundations of its political creed, and is resolved to carry them out in their obvious meaning and import. 
And that we may more distinctly meet the issue on which a sectional party, subsisting exclusively on slavery agitation, now relies to test the fidelity of the people, North and South, to the Constitution and the Union 
1. Resolved, That claiming fellowship with, and desiring the co-operation of all who regard the preservation of the Union under the Constitution as the paramount issueand repudiating all sectional parties and platforms concerning domestic slavery, which seek to embroil the States and incite to treason and armed resistance to law in the Territories; and whose avowed purposes, if consummated, must end in civil war and disunion, the American Democracy recognize and adopt the principles contained in the organic laws establishing the Territories of Kansas and Nebraska as embodying the only sound and safe solution of the "slavery question" upon which the great national idea of the people of this whole country can repose in its determined conservatism of the UnionNON-INTERFERENCE BY CONGRESS WITH SLAVERY IN STATE AND TERRITORY, OR IN THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA.
*A slightly more reputable source than wikipedia


You might also find this interesting:
LINK
Excerpt From the Louisiana Weekly:
*Black Minister Seeks Racism Apology from Democratic Party*

 By Christopher Tidmore, Political Columnist
June 12, 2006  

  Despite massive outreach by the Bush Administration and senior Republicans, African-Americans continue to maintain a perception that the GOP is at best less sympathetic to the needs of the black community than the Democrats' and at worst hostile. 
  However, an influential member of the African-American clergy, who was one of President Clinton's highest profile supporters and worked in Democratic politics for years, has now launched a legal campaign to convince black voters that Democrats have been even more hostile to the black community and have never taken responsibility for those historic views. 
  Rev. Wayne Perryman, associate pastor of Mt. Calvary Christian COGIC in Seattle, Washington, first filed a significant reparations lawsuit against the Democratic Party in 2004. The suit was dismissed two times before Perryman refiled in 2005 and now the case is pending further action in the U.S. Court of Appeals, 9th Circuit, Docket #0535890. 
  Perryman's lawsuit does not seek millions of dollars. It asks that the Democratic Party issue a national apology for what he termed its past racist policies and practices toward blacks-and that they fund production of a series of documentaries which would record and preserve the tainted legacy of the party with free distribution to all public and private schools in the country. 
  These reported Democratic transgressions, Perryman outlined in his book, "Unfounded Loyalty: An In-depth Look Into the Love Affair Between Blacks and the Democrats." In it, and in his lawsuit, the Seattle minister details events which occurred from 1792 through 2002 which he claims show the pattern of bias and racism from that political party.
<Snip>
"Without an apology and repentance there is no way the Democratic Party can ever sincerely honor Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. and Ms Rosa Parks; two individuals who literally gave their lives to destroy the racist programs, policies and practices that were established by the Democratic Party. And without an apology and repentance there is no way the Democratic Party can ever respect African Americans. Their past programs and practices from slavery through Jim Crow which literally destroyed the lives of millions of blacks, was an act of mass murder. And to hire an attorney to defend that racist past is not only an official endorsement of murder - it is an insult to the entire black race and to those whites who gave their lives to eliminate racial injustice."



Then there are quotes like these, from Democrat heroes:


> "I hold that a Negro is not and never ought to be a citizen of the United States. I hold that this government was made on the white basis; made by the white men, for the benefit of white men and their posterity forever, and should be administered by white men and none others."
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## elder999 (Apr 6, 2008)

Big Don said:


> Tell me again...


 
Yeah, okay.

Don, show some _respect_, and

*GIVE IT A REST.*


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## Big Don (Apr 6, 2008)

elder999 said:


> Yeah, okay.
> 
> Don, show some _respect_, and
> 
> *GIVE IT A REST.*


1 Respect is both earned and a two way street, why don't you try showing some?
2 I apologize that honesty offends you so.


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## elder999 (Apr 6, 2008)

Big Don said:


> 1 Respect is both earned and a two way street, why don't you try showing some?
> 2 I apologize that honesty offends you so.


 

I meant "respect what the thread is about," without derailing it with your anti-Democratic agenda, but sure Don, I'll show you all the respect that you've earned here today.

By ignoring you.


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## Big Don (Apr 6, 2008)

elder999 said:


> I meant "respect what the thread is about,"


Judging people by the content of their character President Bush appointed the first two black Secretaries of State, the first hispanic Attorney General, etc. Lets see what some thought of that:






No racism there...




None at all...


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## Andy Moynihan (Apr 6, 2008)

*sigh* Thread lockage in 5.....4.....3.....


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## RandomPhantom700 (Apr 6, 2008)

Seriously, elder and Don, take this pissing match elsewhere please!


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## theletch1 (Apr 6, 2008)

[playnice]Jeff Letchford[/playnice]


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## Ninjamom (Apr 6, 2008)

newGuy12 said:


> I was listening to this just the other day on the radio, and I am convinced for myself that he knew he was going to get hit! If people believe in G-d, they may believe that King was given insight, that he was about to get killed?


Without a doubt in my mind.  I believe very much that he knew he was going to be killed, and he knew why.

One famous quote in his speech was a clear Biblical allusion to exactly this fact. "I have been to the mountain, and I have seen the other side."  This was a reference to Moses, who was allowed by God to lead His people to the Promised Land, but because of his personal failing and sin, was not allowed to enter it himself.  God allowed Moses to view the Promised Land from one end to the other, from the top of a mountain on the other side of Jordan, but Moses never set one foot inside it.  God even told Moses that he would die there, on that mountain.

Dr. King "fought the good fight" and "finished his course" and I believe he "served the purposes of God in his generation".  I believe he was very much aware of his own human frailty and failures.  I believe God allowed him to see the eventual success of The Dream, even though in his lifetime on this earth, he was never able to enter into it and enjoy it himself.  I believe he knew he was going to die, and he willingly accepted this fact: it was a price he was more than willing to pay.

May we live to see the fruit of the seeds he sowed and walk in that Promised Land!  Selah!


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## Big Don (Apr 23, 2008)

upnorthkyosa said:


> Martin Luther King on "Why I oppose Vietnam."  Does anyone see any parallels?  Who else has been silenced?


LBJ had him whacked? Holy cow.


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## elder999 (Apr 23, 2008)

Big Don said:


> LBJ had him whacked? Holy cow.


 

Nah, it was probably _Hoover, the *body remover*_......totally non-partisan.


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## Big Don (Apr 23, 2008)

elder999 said:


> Nah, it was probably _Hoover, the *body remover*_......totally non-partisan.


Yeah, being appointed by democrat FDR probably made Hoover non-partisan...


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## elder999 (Apr 23, 2008)

Big Don said:


> Yeah, being appointed by democrat FDR probably made Hoover non-partisan...


 
Actually, DOn, J. Edgar already had the job. He'd been appointed acting head of the old Bureau of Identification, the FBI's predecessor. The man who appointed him was the Attorney General, Harlan Fiske. Calvin Coolidge-a republican-was president. Of course, if Hoover had any party affiliation, it was as a registered anti-communist. Given his hatred for the Kennedys,  it's hard to say that he had any _ party_ affiliation-especially democrat.


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## Makalakumu (Apr 23, 2008)

elder999 said:


> Actually, DOn, J. Edgar already had the job. He'd been appointed acting head of the old Bureau of Identification, the FBI's predecessor. The man who appointed him was the Attorney General, Harlan Fiske. Calvin Coolidge-a republican-was president. Of course, if Hoover had any party affiliation, it was as a registered anti-communist. Given his hatred for the Kennedys, it's hard to say that he had any _party_ affiliation-especially democrat.


 
Thunk.  Wow!  History really does matter!  Duh...

I am getting so sick of this two party system, I can feel the bile rising in my throat.  If Americans could spend a mintute or two studying Hegel they'd see right through it.


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