# lock possible?



## Porong (Sep 21, 2019)

If the only weapon I have is a 4 c cell Maglite can you think of any locks that are possilble similar to a hammerlock thoughts please thank you?


----------



## Bill Mattocks (Sep 21, 2019)

Porong said:


> If the only weapon I have is a 4 c cell Maglite can you think of any locks that are possilble similar to a hammerlock thoughts please thank you?



I'm not sure what you mean by hammerlock.  I presume you mean an armbar type lock but I'm not sure.  In any case, there are many kinds of locks you can do with a short staff, and that's essentially what you have with a four-cell maglite.  Typically I would go for a wrist lock or a choke, but that's based on my former training in the military as an MP.  I'm sure there are many.


----------



## Porong (Sep 21, 2019)

So do you say if I have a small 4 Cell Maglite that  if I were to use it for a defensive device a wrist lock or similar would be enhanced by the use of such a small stick or similar object? I mean some thing like a wristlock or similar will be more effective if I use a short stick or similar object? ideas?


----------



## drop bear (Sep 22, 2019)

Any figure 4s

So hammer lock is good. Reinforced underhook which is similar. Standing triangle. You could probably get a neat calf cutter.


----------



## Bill Mattocks (Sep 22, 2019)

Porong said:


> So do you say if I have a small 4 Cell Maglite that  if I were to use it for a defensive device a wrist lock or similar would be enhanced by the use of such a small stick or similar object? I mean some thing like a wristlock or similar will be more effective if I use a short stick or similar object? ideas?



No, I mean a maglite is a short stick.  Any defensive moves that you can do with that type of weapon, you can do with a maglite.


----------



## snake_monkey (Sep 23, 2019)

Porong said:


> So do you say if I have a small 4 Cell Maglite that  if I were to use it for a defensive device a wrist lock or similar would be enhanced by the use of such a small stick or similar object? I mean some thing like a wristlock or similar will be more effective if I use a short stick or similar object? ideas?



It depends what you are going for; if you are looking for more of an offensive control position on the opponent, then yes - a short stick or Maglite could definitely help, given the material and weight of the object which can help with not only locks but breaks as well.

There is no substitution for the level of sensitivity you can achieve with an 'Empty Hand' approach, which some may argue can offer more freedom in any given situation. Most of the time people will say that having something on you is better than nothing, which I agree with in some cases.


----------



## Tony Dismukes (Sep 24, 2019)

If you have the skill and understanding to successfully apply a lock bare-handed, then you should be able to apply a version which uses a stick. (In this case the flashlight would function as a short stick.) If you don’t have the skill and understanding to apply the empty-handed version, then I’m skeptical about the Maglite helping much.


----------



## Monkey Turned Wolf (Sep 24, 2019)

Tony Dismukes said:


> If you have the skill and understanding to successfully apply a lock bare-handed, then you should be able to apply a version which uses a stick. (In this case the flashlight would function as a short stick.) If you don’t have the skill and understanding to apply the empty-handed version, then I’m skeptical about the Maglite helping much.


There are some locks/submissions that I only know how to do with a stick (the fang choke for example), where there is not an empty-handed version AFAIK. I would bet that some people with purely stick training could lock me out ten ways to sunday with a stick, but not with their hands, because that is where their experience is.


----------



## Tony Dismukes (Sep 24, 2019)

kempodisciple said:


> There are some locks/submissions that I only know how to do with a stick (the fang choke for example), where there is not an empty-handed version AFAIK. I would bet that some people with purely stick training could lock me out ten ways to sunday with a stick, but not with their hands, because that is where their experience is.


The fang choke is conceptually pretty much an enhanced Ezekiel choke, but I will grant that the stick gives a big leverage advantage.


----------



## Monkey Turned Wolf (Sep 24, 2019)

Tony Dismukes said:


> The fang choke is conceptually pretty much an enhanced Ezekiel choke, but I will grant that the stick gives a big leverage advantage.


I looked up the ezekiel choke (had never heard of it before), and I think the fang/ezekiel choke actually supports my point. I know how to do the fang choke, but I would not have thought to translate it to the ezekiel choke, and even after seeing a vid on it and understanding how it translates, I'm pretty sure I would still need some training to actually execute it well, (as opposed to ones where I can just see a pic or quick vid and just "get" it). Definitely going to be playing around with it though, seems useful.


----------



## drop bear (Sep 24, 2019)

Tony Dismukes said:


> The fang choke is conceptually pretty much an enhanced Ezekiel choke, but I will grant that the stick gives a big leverage advantage.



Baseball bat choke?


----------



## Tony Dismukes (Sep 25, 2019)

I was thinking more about joint locks in my original post. Chokes are a bit more intuitive.


----------



## wab25 (Sep 25, 2019)

A decent book showing many locks: https://www.amazon.com/Stick-Fighti...keywords=stick+fighting&qid=1569423548&sr=8-1

In reading this, its interest that he teaches body movement to avoid the attack first. Next he teaches strikes with the stick. Before going into the locks and chokes, he talks about how you will most likely need to use the strikes to create the opening to apply the lock or choke. Most people I see that teach this stuff, blow past the strikes to get to the fancy locks. However, I believe that the author is right... to really get the locks you will need to soften up the guy first with some good striking. Your mag light should work fine.


----------



## Porong (Sep 25, 2019)

in response to the last post if it was abosoluetly impossible to get any weapons training would 
suggest I buy and understand videos on joint manipulation and or locks before even thinking about use of weapons I mean some locks will possibly work better with a short stick but you must first understand basic joint manipulation is that correct ?thank you.


----------



## drop bear (Sep 25, 2019)

wab25 said:


> A decent book showing many locks: https://www.amazon.com/Stick-Fighti...keywords=stick+fighting&qid=1569423548&sr=8-1
> 
> In reading this, its interest that he teaches body movement to avoid the attack first. Next he teaches strikes with the stick. Before going into the locks and chokes, he talks about how you will most likely need to use the strikes to create the opening to apply the lock or choke. Most people I see that teach this stuff, blow past the strikes to get to the fancy locks. However, I believe that the author is right... to really get the locks you will need to soften up the guy first with some good striking. Your mag light should work fine.



By the way locks with a stick almost dont work. 

You pretty much wind up fighting for control of your stick. That you could have been belting the guy with.


----------



## Deleted member 39746 (Sep 26, 2019)

drop bear said:


> You pretty much wind up fighting for control of your stick. That you could have been belting the guy with.



i feel like this is obvious, but im pretty sure locks etc are the clinch for weapons.    AKA, if someone comes inside hitting distance you use it to try and fight them like that.      As if they get that close it generally would result in fighting over the weapon as you said.    Like going to the ground is bad, but you should still learn how to fight on it a little. 



Dont feel too dismayed you probably arent going to be fighting any BJJ black belts, probably.  (directed at the OP) 

Oh thats a point, that would probably help you a little if you get rushed.

edit: look into rondel dagger grappling, that might have some things you can use with a maglite, granted the attack method is different.


----------

