# Who's on first?



## Cruentus (Jan 19, 2005)

O.K....lets try to discuss this without this turning into a flame war...

I was browsing the net for something unrelated, and a few things cought my eye which caused me to look into this.

I am wondering about the whole entanglement of Modern Arnisadors and where certain people stand at this point.

O.K....First, the IMAF, Inc. lists Datu Shishir and Master Dulay as being the contact for a IMAF, Inc. member school in the PI. See here at the bottom: http://www.modernarnis.net/member/school.shtml

O.K...Datu Shashir is located in Canada, not in the PI. Master Dulay is a PI Master. But, Master Dulay is a founder and councilman for the IMAFP here:
http://www.imafp.com/index.html

THere is no mention of the IMAF, Inc or Datu Shishir on the IMAFP website, nor is anyone from the IMAF, Inc. listed as a contact. The main U.S. contact seems to be Guro Jaye De Leon who is listed as the "President" of the IMAFP for North America.

Then, aside from that, I am wondering how Master Rodel Dagooc fits in with this. He is pictured with Master Dulay, Master Tongson, and Master Vasquez, in the "about" page, but he is not a member of the IMAFP council according to that page. I know Master Rodel has done some work with MARPPIO, but he is not listed on ther site either (although there is a "Senior Master Guro's" page under construction at their site).

So, I am wondering a number of things regarding this. I am wondering what the tie's are between IMAF, Inc. and the IMAFP. I am also wondering how Datu Shishir fits in with this. And finally, I am wondering how Master Rodel fits in with this.

Please don't take my inquiries the wrong way, as I am really just trying to figure this one out, and not trying to cause trouble. The whole thing is very confusing to me...

Yours,

Paul Janulis


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## Cruentus (Jan 19, 2005)

Oh, and another thing. MARPPIO has an IMAFP logo in the upper right hand corner of their site main page here: http://www.modernarnis.com/main.html

Is that the same IMAFP as my above link? If so, how are MARPPIO and IMAFP linked exactly?

:idunno:
Paul


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## arnisandyz (Jan 19, 2005)

Paul,  i can't answer all of your questions but i can clear a few things up (or make them more complicated)!

Datu Shishir is no longer based in Canada, but here in Florida. He is forming an new organization called FMA Modern Arnis USA, but still stays affiliated with both the IMAF and IMAFP, as well as the PI tourism board and the PIGSSAI (he is probably not listed on there sight anymore either). As far as I know he has met or spoken with with Dr Shea, Dr, Barber, Mr Anderson, Datu Worden, and the Presas family.  He also has ties outside of Modern Arnis with Raffy Pambuan, Mike Sayoc, GM Fred Lazo, Tuhon Ray Dionaldo, Gat Puno Baet, and more that I can't think of right now. He travels regularly to both Canada and the PI. Why he is listed as the contact for IMAFP? - at one point, while he was spending a majority of time in the PI he was, could it be that this is old info that has not been updated?  It is confusing to follow, but Datu Shishir has made a large effort in reaching out to the different Modern Arnis and other FMA organizations around the world to try and unite them. Unfortunately, I feel he is fighting an uphill battle as his efforts to be associated with one camp may alienate him from another.


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## Tgace (Jan 19, 2005)

Im not even going to attempt to figure all that out.  One question regarding all these organizations...

Are these groups designed for standardizing curriculum, regional grouping, philosophical grouping, monetary blocs, ranking disputes (more groups allow more rank structures) or what? I fully realize the reality is that these all enter into the equation in varying degrees but there is probably a primary driving force.


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## dearnis.com (Jan 19, 2005)

You had to go there....


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## Tgace (Jan 19, 2005)

Never been one to tiptoe around the issue. 

IMHO if you really want to get to the truth you need to know what the motivations are.

And in all honesty, Ive never really understood the need for all these subdivisions in the MA (as in ignorant of the reasons, not disagreeing with the concept...although I eventually may  ).


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## arnisandyz (Jan 19, 2005)

Tgace said:
			
		

> Im not even going to attempt to figure all that out.  One question regarding all these organizations...
> 
> Are these groups designed for standardizing curriculum, regional grouping, philosophical grouping, monetary blocs, ranking disputes (more groups allow more rank structures) or what? I fully realize the reality is that these all enter into the equation in varying degrees but there is probably a primary driving force.



I have no idea what each of the groups missions are! You could probably check out there respective websites and dig around. 

PIGSSAI is an all volunteer, SEC registered, non-govermental organization (NGO) dedicated to the preservation, revival, enhancement and promotion of all Philippine Indigenous games and sports, particulary Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) and traditional Filipino Native Games (FNG) as part of our cultural heritage



INTERNATIONAL MODERN ARNIS FEDERATION (IMAF)

VISION STATEMENT

Founder & Grandmaster "Professor" Remy Amador Presas established the International Modern Arnis Federation (IMAF) to perpetuate Modern Arnis worldwide. The IMAF will provide for the ethical governance and implementation of Modern Arnis training. The IMAF will provide for the disciplined, rigorous, and systematic training in Modern Arnis, to include (1) the Way of the FLOW, and (2) the Art of Tapi Tapi.

The IMAF will provide leadership, growth, and comprehensive mental and physical training in the Remy Presas Modern Arnis system in its entirety. The IMAF member arnisador will learn to embrace and apply the Way of the FLOW in Life. Ultimately the Modern Arnis practitioner will learn (1) self-discovery and self-control, (2) achieve personal excellence, and (3) gain self-mastery, in the face of Life's daily uncertainties, challenges, and opportunities.


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## Rich Parsons (Jan 19, 2005)

GM Remy Presas was The IMAF. People trained with him. He made everyone feel good about themselves. He told people they were good. Some disagreed with his ways after training with him for a while. They left for a while and did their own thing (* Still doing some Modern Arnis, yet other things as well *).  Others left, by being asked to leave. Others left for money. Some left for politics or other people involved. Some are in place, due to politics. 

With out the Old Man, Proffessor, GM, . . . , many people would not listen to the others, as they believe they alone had what he had to offer. 

Now how did it get to this state. The PI Government got involved and GM Remy had issues of losing control of his organization in the PI. He was able to get out of the country (PI) and come to the USA before he was put in detention for disagreeing with the PI government about whose art it was and who should be in control. There were also people early on in the 70's that took money from GM, and they went their own way. So, Remy had trust issues with everyone. Therefore, the rank, the titles, there was no clear designation of who was in charge, or who was or is the right person or group to lead Modern Arnis into the future.  Now, there might be, in the Will, (* Which version is probated, or what was the last modification I do not know. *) as the Will is still in court and I believe Datu Hoffman is working this through the system, now 3.5 years later. As time does not stand still for the court system and estate issues. People went and did their own thing.

A prime example, many of the people kind of had their own groups already by region and or country, and then there were all the independants who would see him at seminars or bring Professor in for seminars or private training, but had nothing to do with the politics of the scene. 

So, to answer the questions about how it got to this state, the answer is all of the above.

(* Note: Other than Mr. Hoffman and the will, I did not mention names, as it does not need to be mentioned. *)


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## Tgace (Jan 19, 2005)

Nice post Mr. Parsons. Thanks.


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## Cruentus (Jan 19, 2005)

Good answers on the "whys."

I am just wondering who's doing what at this moment. So, if I understand correctly, Shishir is really his own entity without both feet in any one organization, and is at this time operating in the states. That answers that.

I am still curious about the rest...

Paul


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## Dan Anderson (Jan 19, 2005)

arnisandyz said:
			
		

> Datu Shishir has made a large effort in reaching out to the different Modern Arnis and other FMA organizations around the world to try and unite them. Unfortunately, I feel he is fighting an uphill battle as his efforts to be associated with one camp may alienate him from another.


Let me say this about Shishir - he is a gentleman and is one of the only senior Modern Arnis practitioners in this country who doesn't have a bone to pick with others.  I've known him for over 20 years and he is consistantly a gentleman.

Yours,
Dan Anderson


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## Dan Anderson (Jan 19, 2005)

> Without the Old Man, Professor, GM, . . . , many people would not listen to the others, as they believe they alone had what he had to offer.
> 
> Remy had trust issues with everyone. Therefore, the rank, the titles, there was no clear designation of who was in charge, or who was or is the right person or group to lead Modern Arnis into the future.
> 
> ...



And a little more.  Prof. Presas never put in stone any kind of standard rank requirements (in the USA) nor did he broadly state there was a particular heirarchy amongst titles and numerical ratings.  When he died, that was left to speculation and private conversations.  I already had a curriculum in place at my school as did Tim Hartman and a number of others.  When Prof. Presas died, we stayed with what we had and continued on.

My understanding (and I may be VERY wrong) is that there is no connection between either IMAFs (Shea or Delaney groups) and IMAFP in present time.

Yours,
Dan Anderson


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## Cruentus (Jan 19, 2005)

Again, just to reiterate, I am not questioning anyones decisions or character here, I am just trying to figure out what's what at the present time.

O.K....so IMAF, Inc. and IMAFP are totally seperate entities as it would appear. Datu Shishir is on his own here in the U.S. FOR SURE at the present time. No problems there; IMAF, Inc. site probably just needs an update is all.

That leaves the MARPPIO and IMAFP connection, if there is one outside of both groups being Modern Arnis. They don't appear to be connected, but it's Master Rodel's role I am confused about. Is he with MARPPIO, IMAFP, Both, or neither but just happends to do stuff with either group now and again?


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## arnisandyz (Jan 20, 2005)

Tulisan said:
			
		

> Good answers on the "whys."
> 
> I am just wondering who's doing what at this moment. So, if I understand correctly, Shishir is really his own entity without both feet in any one organization, and is at this time operating in the states. That answers that.
> 
> ...




That would be correct. Datu Shishir is doing his own thing, we are helping him with his website and I will post a link when it is live.  However, he still retains ties will as many MA organizations as time allows him and offers his support. This Spring he will be at Master Dan Anderson's camp in the Carolinas and plans on helping to host an IMAF winter camp here in Florida.


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## Dieter (Jan 20, 2005)

Hi Paul,

this is going to be a long mail.
First of all congratulation for digging so much into the Modern Arnis in the Philippines. To tell the truth, it is even more intricate as you found out. Or totally easy, depending on the angle, you want to look at. 
Let me try to give a few answers.

I am sorry to say this, but the reason for all this "confusion" lies in Professor Presas himself, as Dan Anderson has pointed it out. He never put any person or title in relation to another. Also, and this is what I found even more important is the fact, that in his last year and especially when he was already sick in Canada, Remy told many different people to "continue the work", to "get involved", to "continue the family legacy" to "continue the IMAF" and to "spread Modern Arnis" anyway. 
So what I feel  the core problem is, that he made everybody feel, that he (or the group) is the legitimate person, to continue the Modern Arnis. 

He never related the different groups or masters to each other. I am sure he did not want to do this anyway, because this would mean, that he would have to tell people that they are not the best and not the only and not the leader of the pack. Only one could have been the leader. But for his way of dealing with people, "making them happy" this would certaily not be a thing, that he would want to do and so he did not.
This is the same thing as with the titles. He never explained, how the Datu tile stands in relation to the Senior Master title and to the Master of Tapi-Tapi. And how they all relate to the Dan levels? It is the same thing.

So many people were asked directly by Remy, to continue to spread Modern Arnis. This is what many of them do, honestly and with the knowledge, that Remy wanted them to do so.
But suddenly, there is half a dozend of groups and people, who have the same claim (agreed, that most of them do NOT claim to be the successor). But they all are continuing the legacy of Modern Arnis and Remy Presas.

Why I wrote this is, that I sincerely think, that many of the different groups are not there because of financial or "controlling the Moden Arnis world" reasons, but because Remy told the to do so. 

OK, let us move to the People and groups, who they are and who they are positioned towards each other.


First, yes, IMAFP is not connected with IMAF.inc, neiter with the Randi Shea IMAF nor with the Delaney IMAF.

Master Dulay is the chairman for international affairs in the IMAFP. The most important men behind IMAFP are: Cristino Vasquez (9th Dan), Rene Tongson (8th Dan) and Bambit Dulay (7th Dan). There are of course many others too and also Grandmaster Roberto Presas (10th Dan) is part of the IMAFP, but currently only active in his province Negros.
Remy Presas installed the IMAFP and the Masters in January 2000 to spread Modern Arnis in the Philippines. He did that without mentioning the "old" Modern Arnis Masters and without mentioning his Kids. 
Bambit Dulay was the person, that was with Remy Preasas almost 24 hours a day, when Remy was back in the Philippines. He was left as the chief insrtructor for Modern Arnis in the Philippines by Remy, to spread the Tapi-Tapi and the "new" Modern Arnis, that Remy taught him during that time. This was back in 2000, before Remy fell ill. Master Dulay is very active in spreading Modern Arnis all over the Philippines and also abroad. He was in Germany last year to represent the IMAFP at the FMA Festival and also in Switzerland, where he is at the moment too, to teach Modern Arnis there. Still he lives in the Philippines. He is one of the younger Modern Arnis Masters in the Philippines.

Datu Shishir Inocalla is currently not active in the IMAFP nor has a position, as far as I understood. I cannot write much about him, because I have not met him yet. (I hope to meet him in June on Dan Andersons camp).

OK, next: Yes, Guro Jay de Leon handles the IMAFP in the US in close relation  to Dyang Edessa Ramos and the IMAFP masters Bambit Dulay, Cristino Vasquez and Rene Tongson.

Grandmaster or Senior Master Rodel Dagooc, 8th Dan ... sorry, but he also has his own organisation: Arnis Association International Inc.  BUT, he is in good terms with the IMAFP and he is helping MARPPIO, when they need his support. His motto is "One Philippines, one Arnis".
He was, besides Master Willie Annang, who died in the 80ies, one of the highest Modern Arnis masters when Remy left the Philippines in 1974. 

MARPPIO ...  The have been told by Remy to continue the family legacy and this is what they do. He did that without mentionig the IMAFP Masters or  the old Modern Arnis masters. MARPPIO is not connected to IMAFP, but have, as you know, good relation to Datu Kelly Worden. They have my respect for dicontinuing their career for follow their fathers wish.
All Masters in the Philippines do help and assist MARPPIO when asked, out of respect to Remy.
On a sidenote, the page with the Senior Masters on the MARPPIO website is not under construction, the content has been taken from the wbsite some 1 1/2 years ago. Listed were originally the following Senior Masters: Roland Dantes, Rodel Dagooc, Jerry de la Cruz and Victor Sanchez. 

But this is not all from the Philippines. Before, the relevantand highest Modern Arnis Masters in the Philippines formed a council of Modern Arnis Masters. Many did and do their own organisation/stlye too, but they all were still I forming this inofficial council. These Masters were Rodel Dagooc, Jerry de la Cruz, Victor Sanchez, Cristiono Vasquez, Rene Tongson and, as far as i know, also Bambit Dulay. Maybe more that I am not aware of.

Then Reym told Roland Dantes on his death bed to gather all his old original students in the Philippines to form a council. He did that without mentioning their position in relation to MARPPIO and without mentioning the IMAFP masters. This was established in spring 2004 and it is the "Council of Senior Grandmasters of Modern Arnis" with the following members: Roland Dantes, Rodel Dagooc, Jerry de la Cruz and Victor Sanchez. 
Roland is good friend and in good contact with everybody in the Modern Arnis world. He has no specific organisation but supports all everybody who does Modern Arnis.
Rodel Dagooc is teaching Modern Arnis in his Arnis Association International Inc.
Victor Sanchet teaches Modern Arnis, Lightnig Cientific Arnis, Kasilagan and Cincor Teros (maybe also other styles) in his group, that he calls Arnis/Kali if I recall correctly. 
Jerry de la Cruz teaches his own style of Arnis Cruzada, which he formed end of the 90ies and which is Modern Arnis based. 


So everybody is in the end doing what Remy had told them to do, but they do it more or less separately, even though there are of course contacts between them and they do assist each others in most of the cases. 

This is in a way similar as in the US, where Remy told Dan Anderson to "get involved", where Datu Kelly Worden feels his responsibility for Modern Arnis since having been together and haviong had long talks with Remy and Roland in the time just before Remys death.
Like IMAF , Rand Shea and thrte MOTTs, who follow the orders of Remy, like Jeff Delaney, who says that Remy named him successor, and many others.


Coming back to the beginning: 
Why is it more intricate: because everybody is somehow in relation with several others and this is really making it hard to tell, who is allied with whom.
Why is it easier: Really, everybody is doing his own thing.

Like Remy told us: "Just do your own work"


One last thing:

I want to make clear, that with this mail I have no intentions to put any of the named individuals down. I was only trying to explain the situation in the Philippines. I gave all information to the best of my knowledge as up to now. If anything I wrote is wrong I apologize and would like to hear the correct version.
If anything is not formulated clearly, than this is due to the fact, that english is not my native language.

I myself don't have any issues with any Modern Arnis Masters, named or not named. I want to have good or at least neutral relationship to all of them.



I hope this helped a little to clear things up.


Best regards from Germany


Dieter Knüttel
Datu of Modern Arnis


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## arnisandyz (Jan 20, 2005)

Wow, great post Datu Dieter. I guess walls have to be established before they can be knocked down.

QUOTE=Dieter]Hi Paul,

this is going to be a long mail.
First of all congratulation for digging so much into the Modern Arnis in the Philippines. To tell the truth, it is even more intricate as you found out. Or totally easy, depending on the angle, you want to look at. 
Let me try to give a few answers.

I am sorry to say this, but the reason for all this "confusion" lies in Professor Presas himself, as Dan Anderson has pointed it out. He never put any person or title in relation to another. Also, and this is what I found even more important is the fact, that in his last year and especially when he was already sick in Canada, Remy told many different people to "continue the work", to "get involved", to "continue the family legacy" to "continue the IMAF" and to "spread Modern Arnis" anyway. 
So what I feel  the core problem is, that he made everybody feel, that he (or the group) is the legitimate person, to continue the Modern Arnis. 

He never related the different groups or masters to each other. I am sure he did not want to do this anyway, because this would mean, that he would have to tell people that they are not the best and not the only and not the leader of the pack. Only one could have been the leader. But for his way of dealing with people, "making them happy" this would certaily not be a thing, that he would want to do and so he did not.
This is the same thing as with the titles. He never explained, how the Datu tile stands in relation to the Senior Master title and to the Master of Tapi-Tapi. And how they all relate to the Dan levels? It is the same thing.

So many people were asked directly by Remy, to continue to spread Modern Arnis. This is what many of them do, honestly and with the knowledge, that Remy wanted them to do so.
But suddenly, there is half a dozend of groups and people, who have the same claim (agreed, that most of them do NOT claim to be the successor). But they all are continuing the legacy of Modern Arnis and Remy Presas.

Why I wrote this is, that I sincerely think, that many of the different groups are not there because of financial or "controlling the Moden Arnis world" reasons, but because Remy told the to do so. 

OK, let us move to the People and groups, who they are and who they are positioned towards each other.


First, yes, IMAFP is not connected with IMAF.inc, neiter with the Randi Shea IMAF nor with the Delaney IMAF.

Master Dulay is the chairman for international affairs in the IMAFP. The most important men behind IMAFP are: Cristino Vasquez (9th Dan), Rene Tongson (8th Dan) and Bambit Dulay (7th Dan). There are of course many others too and also Grandmaster Roberto Presas (10th Dan) is part of the IMAFP, but currently only active in his province Negros.
Remy Presas installed the IMAFP and the Masters in January 2000 to spread Modern Arnis in the Philippines. He did that without mentioning the "old" Modern Arnis Masters and without mentioning his Kids. 
Bambit Dulay was the person, that was with Remy Preasas almost 24 hours a day, when Remy was back in the Philippines. He was left as the chief insrtructor for Modern Arnis in the Philippines by Remy, to spread the Tapi-Tapi and the "new" Modern Arnis, that Remy taught him during that time. This was back in 2000, before Remy fell ill. Master Dulay is very active in spreading Modern Arnis all over the Philippines and also abroad. He was in Germany last year to represent the IMAFP at the FMA Festival and also in Switzerland, where he is at the moment too, to teach Modern Arnis there. Still he lives in the Philippines. He is one of the younger Modern Arnis Masters in the Philippines.

Datu Shishir Inocalla is currently not active in the IMAFP nor has a position, as far as I understood. I cannot write much about him, because I have not met him yet. (I hope to meet him in June on Dan Andersons camp).

OK, next: Yes, Guro Jay de Leon handles the IMAFP in the US in close relation  to Dyang Edessa Ramos and the IMAFP masters Bambit Dulay, Cristino Vasquez and Rene Tongson.

Grandmaster or Senior Master Rodel Dagooc, 8th Dan ... sorry, but he also has his own organisation: Arnis Association International Inc.  BUT, he is in good terms with the IMAFP and he is helping MARPPIO, when they need his support. His motto is "One Philippines, one Arnis".
He was, besides Master Willie Annang, who died in the 80ies, one of the highest Modern Arnis masters when Remy left the Philippines in 1974. 

MARPPIO ...  The have been told by Remy to continue the family legacy and this is what they do. He did that without mentionig the IMAFP Masters or  the old Modern Arnis masters. MARPPIO is not connected to IMAFP, but have, as you know, good relation to Datu Kelly Worden. They have my respect for dicontinuing their career for follow their fathers wish.
All Masters in the Philippines do help and assist MARPPIO when asked, out of respect to Remy.
On a sidenote, the page with the Senior Masters on the MARPPIO website is not under construction, the content has been taken from the wbsite some 1 1/2 years ago. Listed were originally the following Senior Masters: Roland Dantes, Rodel Dagooc, Jerry de la Cruz and Victor Sanchez. 

But this is not all from the Philippines. Before, the relevantand highest Modern Arnis Masters in the Philippines formed a council of Modern Arnis Masters. Many did and do their own organisation/stlye too, but they all were still I forming this inofficial council. These Masters were Rodel Dagooc, Jerry de la Cruz, Victor Sanchez, Cristiono Vasquez, Rene Tongson and, as far as i know, also Bambit Dulay. Maybe more that I am not aware of.

Then Reym told Roland Dantes on his death bed to gather all his old original students in the Philippines to form a council. He did that without mentioning their position in relation to MARPPIO and without mentioning the IMAFP masters. This was established in spring 2004 and it is the "Council of Senior Grandmasters of Modern Arnis" with the following members: Roland Dantes, Rodel Dagooc, Jerry de la Cruz and Victor Sanchez. 
Roland is good friend and in good contact with everybody in the Modern Arnis world. He has no specific organisation but supports all everybody who does Modern Arnis.
Rodel Dagooc is teaching Modern Arnis in his Arnis Association International Inc.
Victor Sanchet teaches Modern Arnis, Lightnig Cientific Arnis, Kasilagan and Cincor Teros (maybe also other styles) in his group, that he calls Arnis/Kali if I recall correctly. 
Jerry de la Cruz teaches his own style of Arnis Cruzada, which he formed end of the 90ies and which is Modern Arnis based. 


So everybody is in the end doing what Remy had told them to do, but they do it more or less separately, even though there are of course contacts between them and they do assist each others in most of the cases. 

This is in a way similar as in the US, where Remy told Dan Anderson to "get involved", where Datu Kelly Worden feels his responsibility for Modern Arnis since having been together and haviong had long talks with Remy and Roland in the time just before Remys death.
Like IMAF , Rand Shea and thrte MOTTs, who follow the orders of Remy, like Jeff Delaney, who says that Remy named him successor, and many others.


Coming back to the beginning: 
Why is it more intricate: because everybody is somehow in relation with several others and this is really making it hard to tell, who is allied with whom.
Why is it easier: Really, everybody is doing his own thing.

Like Remy told us: "Just do your own work"


One last thing:

I want to make clear, that with this mail I have no intentions to put any of the named individuals down. I was only trying to explain the situation in the Philippines. I gave all information to the best of my knowledge as up to now. If anything I wrote is wrong I apologize and would like to hear the correct version.
If anything is not formulated clearly, than this is due to the fact, that english is not my native language.

I myself don't have any issues with any Modern Arnis Masters, named or not named. I want to have good or at least neutral relationship to all of them.



I hope this helped a little to clear things up.


Best regards from Germany


Dieter Knüttel
Datu of Modern Arnis[/QUOTE]


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## Dan Anderson (Jan 20, 2005)

Dieter,

Very well put, especially _So what I feel the core problem is, that he made everybody feel, that he (or the group) is the legitimate person, to continue the Modern Arnis. _  A positive point is that although there is no one umbrella organization to spearhead Modern Arnis into the 21st century, each organization and individual is sincere in spreading the art.  I liken it to Shotokan karate.  In the beginning there was Gichen Funakoshi teaching his art.  From there it split into Shotokai, Japan Karate Association, International Shotokan Karate Association and a number of others - all based on the core teachings of Funakoshi.  

_So everybody is in the end doing what Remy had told them to do, but they do it more or less separately, even though there are of course contacts between them and they do assist each others in most of the cases. _ says it all.

Yours,
Dan Anderson


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## Cruentus (Jan 20, 2005)

Cool. So, to sumerize the answer, Datu Shashir is doing his own thing, Master Rodel has his own organization, IMAFP is its own entity, and obviously IMAF Inc. is it's own entity.

That's good. What happened was I was talking to someone about something completely unrelated to this topic, which cause me to read the IMAFP site in better detail. Previously, I had thought that IMAF, Inc. was connected to IMAFP organizationally, yet while I was reading I didn't see any info for IMAF, Inc. there. This brought on the snowball of other questions, which have been answered (Thanks Datu Dieter and others).

Also, please keep in mind that my inquireries are in no way intending to question anyones credability or judgement with what they are doing with Modern Arnis; it was merely an attempt to understand what is going on today.

One final thing, even though it is not directly related to my question but is an important topic, is this:



> So what I feel the core problem is, that he made everybody feel, that he (or the group) is the legitimate person, to continue the Modern Arnis.



I think that Professor made everyone feel that they were 'A' legitimate person to carry on the art, and most took this to mean that they were "the" legitimate person, or that "they and their associates" are "the" legitimate 'successors'. This is buying into the fantasy that there has to be one heir to a martial system; a fantasy that doesn't even fit well with Filipino culture.

I think we are all legitimate people to carry his art, regardless of rank or title. A "Datu" or "Master" title does one no good if the title barer isn't able to do anything positive for the art or themselves and their students with it. Yet, a non-titled person not of significant rank could well exceed all of us in skill and works.

Also, I think it is silly to expect that anyone who spent significant time in Modern Arnis to "be under" anyone else. So, the different factions don't bother me at all and actually make sense when one understands the dynamics, as I think they are a natural part of the evolution of the art. I think that it is good when factions and personalities can work together with that understanding.

- Paul Janulis


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## Dieter (Jan 20, 2005)

Tulisan said:
			
		

> One final thing, even though it is not directly related to my question but is an important topic, is this:
> 
> * So what I feel the core problem is, that he made everybody feel, that he (or the group) is the legitimate person, to continue the Modern Arnis. *
> 
> I think that Professor made everyone feel that they were 'A' legitimate person to carry on the art, and most took this to mean that they were "the" legitimate person, or that "they and their associates" are "the" legitimate 'successors'. This is buying into the fantasy that there has to be one heir to a martial system; a fantasy that doesn't even fit well with Filipino culture.



Well, we all haven't been there. The way I see it (very personal opinion) that he gave many the impression, that they should continue to lead the Modern Arnis community. Otherwise her could have told of the other fractions. But this is all speculation. At least he did not tell each group, to be under somebody or to join with another group. But we will never know. We can only guess.



> I think we are all legitimate people to carry his art, regardless of rank or title. A "Datu" or "Master" title does one no good if the title barer isn't able to do anything positive for the art or themselves and their students with it.



True.



> Yet, a non-titled person not of significant rank could well exceed all of us in skill and works.



The positive about a rank, or, let us make it personal: the positive for me about my "Datu" title is, that even though myny of you people in the US who do not know me, listen and read to what I say and consider it a valuable opinion, (at least as long as I don't write any bulls**t), because through the title my opinion and voice is better heared than if I would only be a talented and good practitioner.



> Also, I think it is silly to expect that anyone who spent significant time in Modern Arnis to "be under" anyone else.



Especially if the person you are supposed to be under is

a: your junior
b: you cannot stand him and
c: you think you are better than him anyway



> So, the different factions don't bother me at all and actually make sense when one understands the dynamics, as I think they are a natural part of the evolution of the art. I think that it is good when factions and personalities can work together with that understanding.
> 
> - Paul Janulis



It will definitively keep Modern Arnis alive, with many different shades and variations. Even if one or two organisations will drop out in spreading the aret, there will always be the others who will continue. Like in Aikido, Wing Chun, Kempo, Shotokan etc.

Even though Remy is dead, Modern Arnis will still go a long way.


Regards


Dieter Knüttel
Datu of Modern Arnis


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