# Good, cheap rattan?



## geezer (Sep 26, 2014)

Hey all, ever since Simon Mc Mahon (Eskrimakaliarnis) got out of the FMA supply business I've been on the lookout for good sources of cheap, but solid rattan. Several folks deal quality stuff but at a high price. So far I've opted for cheap stuff from Franks Cane, taping it when it starts to fray and using it till it's more tape than rattan. At about $3-$4 a stick, I figure they become sort of "disposable" and if I bust them up, so what?

On the other hand, I'd like to get my hands on some denser, stronger stuff without spending a fortune. Some use "manau", some recommend "labsica" with a lot of nodes. Some people are almost ritualistic about fire-hardening, brine-soaking and so forth. Years back I had some fun with that. Made the sticks prettier and allowed me to straighten them, but if anything, they seemed lighter and didn't last any longer. 

So, what do you guys use and where do you get it?


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## Danny T (Sep 27, 2014)

Frank's. Been using their rattan for the past 10+ years. I order them by the bundle, 26 to the bundle. Have purchased sticks from most everyone at some time or another. Haven't found any that last much longer than any of the others on a regular basis. Soaked them, fire hardened, skin on, skin off.
What I found that makes them last a few heavy training or sparring sessions longer is to fire hardened them then soak in linseed oil overnight. Drain and let dry. Takes a couple of days but the sticks are just a bit heavier and last a few sessions longer. The number one thing that allows them to last is where the most of the contact is made on the stick. I practice to contact within 3 inches of the tip. Doing this consistently vs closer to 1/3 of the way down the stick will make it last much longer. 
Your mileage may vary.


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## Blindside (Sep 27, 2014)

I use Franks Supply for class sticks, but these days I am using 31" sticks for my personal sticks so their sizes don't work for me.  I get my 31" sticks from Kombat Instruments Ltd. 
I usually harden the stuff I get from Franks.  His stuff has gotten better over the last couple of years, but I usually only find 2/3s of the sticks good enough to sell to a student.  It gives me lots of ugly sticks for lending out.
Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express


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## Brian R. VanCise (Sep 27, 2014)

The best way to buy from anyone is to buy longer lengths.  by 9 foot pole and cut it then fire harden, soak, lacquer, etc.


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## PhotonGuy (Oct 2, 2014)

You could check out flea markets. I got a set of rattan sticks at a flea market in Hawaii.


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## Mephisto (Oct 2, 2014)

I always keep my eyes open for rattan furniture stores, it seems all the ones I go to only sell prefabricated furniture though, so no poles or sticks lying around to buy up. I started a similar thread on another forum, Frankssupply was the best answer I got. I'm surprised rattan is so expensive at the majority of sites I go to, $20 for a pair of sticks is just ridiculous the was I burn through them, taping with electrical tape helps to make them last or I've done duct tape with electrical tape over it but that adds a noticeable weight to the stick. I know some guys that cover sticks in heat shrink wrap, it comes like a sheath or tube and you Heat it up to get it to conform to the stick, haven't tried it myself though.


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## Carol (Oct 2, 2014)

Brian R. VanCise said:


> The best way to buy from anyone is to buy longer lengths.  by 9 foot pole and cut it then fire harden, soak, lacquer, etc.



Oooh, I look at a project like that, and the effort that would go in to it.........all of a sudden other people's rattan looks a lot cheaper


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## Brian R. VanCise (Oct 2, 2014)

*Personally Frank's is good but you will burn through sticks*.  Still hard to be upset with the cost.  Soaking, Fire Hardening, Lacquering will make rattan last longer but in the end you will eventually have to wrap your stick with tape.  I use and ship out black Hockey Tape with all my sticks.  I am lucky as I get first choice sticks and I cut them from poles which is better for quality.  Yet, I buy in massive bulk so they cater to me.  The best of the best so to speak and I sell them straight out with no extra work plus tape.  I will also take those same sticks cut from poles, soak, fire harden them and lacquer for a little more.  My multi node sticks will last and last and destroy other sticks but hey they are multi node sticks to start with and then soaked, fire hardened, glued ends and lacquered.  That is a lot of work on my end.  Trust me on that.  I just realized the other day that I am selling them to cheaply and the prices need to go up.

*Bottom line with rattan regardless *of what you get and from where you get them from you are going to burn through them if you train hard.  Some very quickly so you tape it either before use or at the first sign of fraying.  I like hockey tape but have lots of friends who utilize other tape.  Rattan is for training and expect to go through sticks.  Still they do not generally break and fly around like hard wood so that is why we use rattan.


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## Mephisto (Oct 2, 2014)

I've been experimenting with local sticks I've cut from tree branches. It's hard to find the perfect branch but when you do it's worth it for a free stick. I shy away from using these hardwood sticks for heavy contact drills though but they're nice for flow drills where there's less emphasis on power. Of course natural sticks dry out over time and the bark comes off so they're not a permanent fixture, just one option. I figure rattan is so popular because it is cheap and widely available in the PI, so it makes sene to do the same here when you can.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Oct 2, 2014)

*Just remember rattan is used not only because it is cheap but also because it typically does not shatter on impact*.  It is the ideal training wood for FMA and Southeast Asian Martial Arts.  Rattan frays instead during hard contact drills.  You do not want to be doing hard contact drills with hardwood with a partner because of the potential stick shattering that could happen.  Some people have been severely injured by flying shattered hard wood pieces.


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## Mephisto (Oct 2, 2014)

Well yeah, obviously. I figured that goes without saying, but non FMA guys might not be aware of this. That's why I mentioned I don't use hardwood sticks for hard contact. I've met FMA guys that insisted on using kamagong for hard contact drills, not sure what the reasoning was I mentioned that he was destroying my rattan but it was largely ignored, our next session I brought a big ol monster rattan stick and I think he got the message. I was attending his class so I didn't want to make a scene about it. I've also snapped a kamagong stick on a tire at another class, so maybe it does need to be said that hardwood shouldn't be used for contact. You can't assume everyone knows the seemingly obvious.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Oct 2, 2014)

*Yes, it does need to be repeated over and over again*.  By the way the FMA guy using Kamagong for hard contact drills.  There is a saying for that person in South East Asian Martial Arts...... idiot! Stay away from that guy!


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## Mephisto (Oct 2, 2014)

Brian R. VanCise said:


> *Yes, it does need to be repeated over and over again*.  By the way the FMA guy using Kamagong for hard contact drills.  There is a saying for that person in South East Asian Martial Arts...... idiot! Stay away from that guy!


What are your thoughts on bahi? Someone recommended bahi for tire work with the explanation that bahi being a palm rather than hardwood wears similarly to rattan. I tried it out and didn't find this to be the case, the wood kind of peels off in layers but it can still leave sharp spots on the stick. Didnt do any stick on stick contact work with the bahi but I'd imagine it'd be brutal on the joints due to the hardness of the stick. Not sure if I just got cheap bahi or if this is always the case. I did like the feel of the bahi which was slightly lighter compared to a kamagong stick of similar size, but that I just my personal preference. I haven't really found a good substitute for rattan yet, haven't really like the feel of the synthetics I've used.


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## Carol (Oct 2, 2014)

I haven't found any good substitutes for rattan either.   I don't like the synthetics at all.  

 Rattan is a good shock absorber, which means stick drills can be done with less force going in to the striker's hand/body.  And also less chances of breaking your training partner.   

I do try to get the most out of the sticks I do have....there's a couple that have a fair amount of hockey tape on them.  Ugly?  You bet.  But they still do the job just fine and I expect to have them for years to come.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Oct 2, 2014)

*As Carol mentioned* rattan is a good shock absorber with nice anti vibration qualities which makes it ideal for hard work in the FMA's and SEAMA.  Good for your hands and joints and good for your partner.  Synthetics are okay but hey I would just rather spend money on rattan because it feels better.  Every stick that I use I eventually tape when they start to fray.  I have hundreds of sticks for training because of this.  Never throw away your rattan.  Tape and reuse and save a few bucks.  That makes it even more special when you get new rattan to train with! 
*
Bahi will shatter as well in time*.  I use bahi and kamagong (mostly kamagong) for solo training to build up grip strength and arm strength.  I do not utilize kamagong, bahi or any hardwood. for anything other than training in the air or very lightly with a partner. (except when training in Budo Taijutsu)  When partner training with kamagong I do not do stick to stick contact with any degree and mostly utilize a cutting motion on an arm, etc. (so there is no major contact and no worries about breakage)

I would not really try to find a substitute for rattan as it is great and fairly cheap. ie. Franks Cane and Supply or you can take a step up and get some Kombat Instruments Limited sticks or my own line here at our IRT store: IRT Store Products  and there is also Kali Gear Bottom line you cannot go wrong with any of us.  Sure you will pay more with KIL sticks or mine.  They are better. (my opinion)  Or you can just buy in bulk from Franks and tape and use.  My advice is to just understand that buying new sticks is a price we pay to train in these great South East Asian Martial Arts! * Pretty cheap price to!*


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## MJS (Oct 6, 2014)

geezer said:


> Hey all, ever since Simon Mc Mahon (Eskrimakaliarnis) got out of the FMA supply business I've been on the lookout for good sources of cheap, but solid rattan. Several folks deal quality stuff but at a high price. So far I've opted for cheap stuff from Franks Cane, taping it when it starts to fray and using it till it's more tape than rattan. At about $3-$4 a stick, I figure they become sort of "disposable" and if I bust them up, so what?
> 
> On the other hand, I'd like to get my hands on some denser, stronger stuff without spending a fortune. Some use "manau", some recommend "labsica" with a lot of nodes. Some people are almost ritualistic about fire-hardening, brine-soaking and so forth. Years back I had some fun with that. Made the sticks prettier and allowed me to straighten them, but if anything, they seemed lighter and didn't last any longer.
> 
> So, what do you guys use and where do you get it?



If you're looking for some good quality sticks, check this out.
Kali Sticks

I have a pair that I got from Ron, and they're still in great shape.  They are longer and heavier than other sticks I've used, but IMHO, the quality is top notch!  Ron is a great guy! I've known him for quite a while, and I've trained with him as well.


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## geezer (Oct 6, 2014)

MJS said:


> If you're looking for some good quality sticks, check this out.
> Kali Sticks
> 
> I have a pair that I got from Ron, and they're still in great shape.  They are longer and heavier than other sticks I've used, but IMHO, the quality is top notch!  Ron is a great guy! I've known him for quite a while, and I've trained with him as well.



They really look like a good quality product, and I'm sure the labor involved fully justifies the price. And $25- $30 isn't much to spend for a lot of people. But still they cost nearly 10 times more than what I get from Frank's. And on top of that, consider that I sometimes lend and loose my sticks when training at our  local "gatherings". So, I personally think I'll keep using and taping the cheap stuff I have now. That way, a stick is just a stick ...to be _beaten hard_ and not something precious to protect.


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## MJS (Oct 18, 2014)

geezer said:


> They really look like a good quality product, and I'm sure the labor involved fully justifies the price. And $25- $30 isn't much to spend for a lot of people. But still they cost nearly 10 times more than what I get from Frank's. And on top of that, consider that I sometimes lend and loose my sticks when training at our  local "gatherings". So, I personally think I'll keep using and taping the cheap stuff I have now. That way, a stick is just a stick ...to be _beaten hard_ and not something precious to protect.



Sorry..I forgot about this post. 

No problem.  Just wanted to toss it out there.   And yeah, I hear you about loaning sticks.  I've come close to losing a few pairs, as well as training blades. LOL.  The sticks I really didn't care about...the training blades on the other hand...I wanted those back. LOL.


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