# Did You Guys Know About This...?



## KamonGuy2 (Dec 9, 2009)

http://news.asiaone.com/News/Latest+News/Asia/Story/A1Story20091122-181461.html


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## blindsage (Dec 9, 2009)

Not directly, but there have been a few comments on a couple of threads of people alluding to it.

BTW, 2 months for domestic abuse assault?  WTF?


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## KamonGuy2 (Dec 10, 2009)

blindsage said:


> Not directly, but there have been a few comments on a couple of threads of people alluding to it.
> 
> BTW, 2 months for domestic abuse assault? WTF?


 
Maybe he will learn some real fighting in jail


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## Poor Uke (Dec 10, 2009)

Lol


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## dungeonworks (Dec 10, 2009)

> ...He was charged with attacking his girlfriend, who was then three months' pregnant, by dragging her on the ground, pulling her hair and kicking her stomach at his home in Hong Kong on March 30...



He is clearly innocent!  If the judge had any knowledge of Wing Chun, he would know that the charges seriously violate the principles of Wing Chun! :mst:

If he truly is guilty, he should be skinned alive 4 square inches of skin at a time, once per day!  I have absolutely nothing but ill will towards men that beat women, let alone PREGNANT WOMEN! :barf::whip1::shooter:


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## mook jong man (Dec 10, 2009)

Apparently , the latest is that he was having an affair with Tiger Woods as well.


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## K-man (Dec 10, 2009)

mook jong man said:


> Apparently , the latest is that he was having an affair with Tiger Woods as well.


 So! Tell me something new.  Like, who hasn't had an affair with Tiger?


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## K-man (Dec 10, 2009)

After the judgement was read out, Leung raised his hands and shouted ?objection?. He even blurted out the word "********" at the judge. That's what I like.  Don't hold back you emotions ... and always lead by example!!  :rofl:


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## geezer (Dec 10, 2009)

Kamon Guy said:


> Maybe he will learn some real fighting in jail



Or maybe he'll get to practice new applications of the final movement of Biu Tze form... you know, the "bend over and pick up the soap" movement, followed by "Whoo hoo! and wave arms wildly". 

Seriously though, I'm glad the association I belong to has severed all connections with the man and now uses the spelling "Ving Tsun" in deference to Great Grandmaster Yip Man who used that translation.


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## KamonGuy2 (Dec 11, 2009)

geezer said:


> Or maybe he'll get to practice new applications of the final movement of Biu Tze form... you know, the "bend over and pick up the soap" movement, followed by "Whoo hoo! and wave arms wildly".
> 
> Seriously though, I'm glad the association I belong to has severed all connections with the man and now uses the spelling "Ving Tsun" in deference to Great Grandmaster Yip Man who used that translation.


 
Maybe he can start a WT club in prison and franchise it out to all the other prisons...

I'm sure they will make a movie on this topic...


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## geezer (Dec 11, 2009)

Kamon Guy said:


> Maybe he can start a WT club in prison and franchise it out to all the other prisons...
> 
> I'm sure they will make a movie on this topic...


 
That was the funniest comment I've read on this forum in a long time.


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## yak sao (Dec 11, 2009)

geezer said:


> Or maybe he'll get to practice new applications of the final movement of Biu Tze form... *you know, the "bend over and pick up the soap" movement, followed by "Whoo hoo! and wave arms wildly".*
> 
> Seriously though, I'm glad the association I belong to has severed all connections with the man and now uses the spelling "Ving Tsun" in deference to Great Grandmaster Yip Man who used that translation.


 

So what you're saying is this is a defense against the long pole...I never realized.
Still, the man is a "great grandmaster", maybe we should all take up a collection and send him some soap on a rope.


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## Laoshi77 (Dec 16, 2009)

Sad story of a man who obviously should know better!

So by some of the comments on this thread Leung Ting seems to be a phony then? I was never sure about this guy but I guess your comments are telling.


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## yak sao (Dec 16, 2009)

As a MA, LT is very skilled and knowledgable. So I, for one, am in no way questioning his ability or saying he is a phony.
I did however take a cheap shot (which I now regret) in my post from the other day. So if anyone was offended, my apologies.

The controversy with LT is complex. It goes back to his days in Hong Kong when he was training privately with Yip Man. From what I hear, many of Yip Man's older students didn't like the fact that this young upstart was getting private training from the man himself. Then when he starting teaching the gwaii lo, that was defintely a big no no.
And of course there are those that resent/oppose his whole business approach to teaching MA.
I only met LT 8 or 9 times over the course of a 10 year period, and he was always cordial and very open when teaching. I have heard many who are closer to him and know him quite well say that this whole controversy that is now going on is no surprise to them.


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## qwksilver61 (Dec 16, 2009)

On that note...correct me if I am wrong,I believe GGM Ting patented his art (sort of but not really),according to his newest declaration, this applies to anyone using his name and his grading system,which is exclusive to Wing Tsun only.I am not defending him,This is only what I have gathered.I believe he will go after other schools who use his trademark name and grading system.My two cents.....


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## dungeonworks (Dec 17, 2009)

mook jong man said:


> Apparently , the latest is that he was having an affair with Tiger Woods as well.



I got more respect for Tiger....not a lot, but still more.

I wonder if Ting stayed withing the principles of Wing Chun whilst smacking around the girl and unborn child?


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## geezer (Dec 17, 2009)

qwksilver61 said:


> On that note...correct me if I am wrong,I believe GGM Ting patented his art (sort of but not really),according to his newest declaration, this applies to anyone using his name and his grading system,which is exclusive to Wing Tsun only.I am not defending him,This is only what I have gathered.I believe he will go after other schools who use his trademark name and grading system.My two cents.....


 
You are correct. He will go after others using his particualar WT spelling with lawsuits. Unless you are willing to pony up some big bucks to fight him in court, the wiser thing to do is just not use his spelling. Besides, after this shameful affair _...who would want to?_

Oh, and regarding his skill, for the record, I have _great respect_ for his knowledge. That's what makes the rest of this stuff so sad and frustrating.


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## KamonGuy2 (Dec 22, 2009)

I have no respect for the guy. The guy is a nasty bit of work and I talk from personal experience. Ironically, I know a couple of Wt instructors and they are great guys - they are the ones who will suffer most from all this (apart from the victm and her family)

Ting has no respect for others and that is why he hasnt earnt my respect


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## geezer (Dec 22, 2009)

Kamon Guy said:


> I have no respect for the guy. The guy is a nasty bit of work and I talk from personal experience. Ironically, I know a couple of Wt instructors and they are great guys - they are the ones who will suffer most from all this (apart from the victm and her family)
> 
> Ting has no respect for others and that is why he hasnt earnt my respect



Well with any luck, those guys will join me and my friends in our outcast circle of kung-fu brothers raised by an abusive kung-fu father. Kamon, there were a lot of great people who practiced WT, but the best, in my opinion, all bailed on LT a long time ago!


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## KamonGuy2 (Dec 23, 2009)

geezer said:


> Well with any luck, those guys will join me and my friends in our outcast circle of kung-fu brothers raised by an abusive kung-fu father. Kamon, there were a lot of great people who practiced WT, but the best, in my opinion, all bailed on LT a long time ago!


 
Exactly my point. Ting has tried to claim that many chunners who previously trained under WT owe everything to him and his system. Usually they are good chunners because of their personality and their desire to be good at what they do. 

Bozteppi always commented on how a lot of his wing chun was actually derived from other things that he did, rather than what his instructors taught him


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## qwksilver61 (Dec 25, 2009)

allow me to chime in......Sifu Emin's likes the scientific approach to fighting (which is always evolving,and does not deviate from the WT ideas) not the long & cumbersome traditional trail.His students train to fight from day one,he also incorporates ground fighting in a unique way (well, maybe not new) using man sau- wu sau legs & chain kicking/locks & take downs.Guro Renee Latosa  also teaches Escrima.Well rounded approach to fighting,I think.Two cents.....
I for one respect GGM Ting for what he has done for the art,he has brought  organization and produced some great fighters,hey when you're on the top......"this is the song that never ends......"


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## geezer (Dec 26, 2009)

qwksilver61 said:


> I for one respect GGM Ting for what he has done for the art,he has brought  organization and produced some great fighters...



 I agree. It would be a mistake to discount Leung Ting's significant impact. He was the first to promote a logical, organized and standardized system of instruction of GGM Yip Man's art which was_ taught equally to Chinese and non-Chinese students alike_. The fact that GM Kernspecht, I believe, holds the second highest rank in the "WT" branch, even over Leung Ting's own brother, Leung Kwoon, is evidence of this. And this is without mentioning Emin Boztepe's own considerable skills coming from "WT". (On the other hand, Emin was probably born with more fighting skill than a lot of us will ever develop in a lifetime!).

Another thing that LT contributed was his soft and yielding, or "flexible" approach, probably coming from his having worked with GGM Yip Man at the end of his life. LT's approach to his "WT" is practical and "down to earth" yet very much more "yielding" than some of the earlier students of GGM Yip and so I feel it helps complete the picture. Regardless or what you may think of the man, his contributions to the legacy of GGM Yip merit consideration.


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## chisauking (Dec 27, 2009)

You know, people who know me, knows I don't like to comment on an well known individual. I try to stay focus on the topic of wing chun.....

However, I will speak out on this exception because I feel someone like Leung Ting shouldn't be made to look like a role model -- which he isn't.

1) He lied about his background to elevate his own status.

2) He was too scared of will cheung, so he sent emin to do his own dirty work, by ambusing poor old will (in many ways, his own doing)

3) He set up another one of his 'productions' to tarnish poor old lun gai, with his much younger & stronger student, tosser. Here's the prove: www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNYxTHI8lEA For the readers who don't know, lun gai was almost in his late 60s or early 70s when this episode happended. Talk about grandad bashing!

4) He was convicted of bashing a WOMEN -- not just a women, but one that happended to be pregnant, with HIS baby. Even though he is worth millions, LT was too mean to pay the women 40K to keep the peace -- he rather resort to violence.

In my opinion, LT brought controversy to the world of wing chun, and what little good he did was for his own personal gains.

I don't agree that he brought a logical standardised system of learning wing chun at all. When you withhold information from your students when they are ready (some people have been with his organisation for over 10-years and still haven't learnt the muk-yan-jong), and confuse people with BS like MOA (man of arrival) & something almightyness, it's anything BUT logical. According to his own account, his organision has had over 1-million students in Germany...How many of this million + students stands out as being skillful in the art of wing chun? How can you claim a system is effective if it can't even produce 10% of outstanding students out of the 1-million, after following his program for so long? 

I frequent Germany quite a lot, a land full of wing chun fanatics. In helping & learning with my sifu, I get the chance to meet up with many, many wing chun practitioners, especially from the LT linage, and I can tell you, not one person with a long term connection with his organisation, has one good word to say about him.

All the proof indicates that LT only fights when the odds stack up in this favour. He will only target people that's wayyyyy past their prime -- unless they are female, of course. Also, I know for a FACT that many wing chun practitioners around the world is ashamed of his antics.

The Chinese believe you sow the seeds for your next life with the deeds that you do in this life....

Is it what the western people say: 'what goes around comes around'?


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## Tensei85 (Dec 27, 2009)

chisauking said:


> You know, people who know me, knows I don't like to comment on an well known individual. I try to stay focus on the topic of wing chun.....
> 
> However, I will speak out on this exception because I feel someone like Leung Ting shouldn't be made to look like a role model -- which he isn't.
> 
> ...


 

Yep, its all about Karma. That's a shame to see the issue with Lun Gai, he's an awesome Wing Chun Master either way!

But in the end it goes to show you "Find a good, qualified Sifu in both skill & ethics" one you can at least look up to as a decent rolemodel, obviously no one's perfect but still....


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## geezer (Dec 28, 2009)

chisauking said:


> ...I don't like to comment on an well known individual. I try to stay focus on the topic of wing chun.....
> 
> However, I will speak out on this exception because I feel someone like Leung Ting shouldn't be made to look like a role model -- which he isn't.
> 
> ...



Chisauking, I can certainly agree with those of your comments which I have quoted above. But the fact remains that a person may rise to prominence in their given field, make a significant impact and still be an SOB. People are complicated. 

Now with regard to the individual in question, it would be easy to dismiss him as  just a money-grubbing, amoral, sociopathic fraud. But that would not be accurate, in spite of the fact that this _does_ describe part of his personality. Still those who know him personally, know that his skill is genuine, and that he did, for much of his life, really care about the quality of his art. In recent years, I cannot say that is the case. In fact, I'd bet that the more reputable people still associated with him probably wish he'd retire and go away. And that's pretty sad.


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## yak sao (Dec 28, 2009)

Character does count, but look at so many people of accomplishment down through the years.........Babe Ruth was a boozer, Kennedy was a womanizer...yada yada.
Role models?......not so much, but the fact is they accomplished what they accomplished, whether we like them as a person or not.


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## chisauking (Dec 28, 2009)

Well, I'm not going to argue with you guys regarding LT's contribution towards the wing chun world. I will just say we all look at things in different perspectives, and we judge standards using our own values -- based on our personal experiences & comprehension. I just don't see Leung Ting the way some people see him.

Every time I see an injustice, or when a bully picks on the old or young (in this case, unborn), my blood boils!

I guees I still have a long way to go before I can control my own emotional content, and therefore reach a higher level in my wing chun.

I will just  have to try harder..


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## dungeonworks (Dec 28, 2009)

yak sao said:


> Character does count, but look at so many people of accomplishment down through the years.........Babe Ruth was a boozer, Kennedy was a womanizer...yada yada.
> Role models?......not so much, but the fact is they accomplished what they accomplished, whether we like them as a person or not.



Comparing apples to.....metal car fenders here.  Leung Ting beat a pregnant woman and killed her unborn child according to his judgment in a court of law.


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## yak sao (Dec 28, 2009)

Didn't say his actions don't classify him as a piece of ****, only that you can't say his WT sucks because he does.


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## dungeonworks (Dec 28, 2009)

yak sao said:


> Didn't say his actions don't classify him as a piece of ****, only that you can't say his WT sucks because he does.




Ah!  I got ya!  I misread your post and see what you are saying.  I thought you were equating it to The Babe's Boozing or Kennedy's womanizing.  Sorry.


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## geezer (Dec 28, 2009)

dungeonworks said:


> Comparing apples to.....metal car fenders here.  Leung Ting beat a pregnant woman and killed her unborn child according to his judgment in a court of law.



I didn't read anything in the court decision about him "killing her unborn child". I did read that the argument leading to the beating was, in part, over how much money she wanted for an abortion. What I read basically boiled down to a nasty fight in which a womanizing man beat his mistress... another nasty domestic quarrel. The relatively light sentence handed down would seem to be in line with this interpretation. But to be honest, I haven't followed this all that closely. Perhaps you have. Regardless, I think we can all agree that LT's actions are reprehensible. I recently heard from an old kung fu brother who is still a member of LT's organization. I fell so sorry for him. After all these decades of "loyalty" to this man, and all the money he paid out for instruction and the right to use LT's name, what has he got to show for it?  I can't imagine how he tries to explain this to his students. I mean how would you feel about starting every class _bowing to a picture of this guy???
_


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## JGreber (Dec 28, 2009)

This story doesn't surprise me much. My Sifu left the WT organization after they asked him to take part in a jumping of another Wing Chun sifu. LT has spread WC around the world and brought the art into the light for other countries to see that probably would not have seen or heard of it other wise, but hes still a **** head for hurting a woman let alone the woman of his own child.


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## l_uk3y (Dec 29, 2009)

Regardless of his personality and business ethics.
As a Martial Artist and especially as a very senior Martial Artist he has breached everything we all train for and believe that is worthy of getting your rank completely stripped from you and with his seniority I would be disgraced to share his name in future after this. I personally think that sounds like a fairly soft sentence considering the severity of the crime.

Luke


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## geezer (Dec 29, 2009)

JGreber said:


> This story doesn't surprise me much. My Sifu left the WT organization...



Another WT refugee! Welcome to the ranks of the ronin, cousin. Were are you from, and who does your sifu train with now?


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