# Bruce Lee!



## ace

Bruce Lee was the 1st Mixed Martial Artist.

The 1st seen in Enter the Dragon.
Bruce & Samo are in trunks,Shoe & are wearing Gloves.
They Strike, Wrestle & it ends in Submisson.


It seems to me the rest of us are
Still trying to ketch up to Lee!

Ok i know this was not a real fight!
But this was done with this type of fighting.
On his mind.

Back When 1 style was what U did.
U never cross trained.
U never Competed aganist other M.A.

What do U guy's think Was Bruce the 1st
I say YES!
:samurai: :samurai:


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## ace

Bruce in My Eye's @@
Was the 1st Mixed Martial Artist.

The 1st seen in Enter the Dragon
Bruce & Samo are in Trunks, Gloves & Shoe's.

They Strike, Wrestle & it ends in Submisson.

Ok Yes i know this was not a fight.
But this is what Mixed Martial Arts fighting.
Is all about.

It seems to Me we are still trying to ketch up 
With Bruce & i reconise him as the 1st Mixed Martial Artist.


What do U guy's think???


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## fist of fury

> _Originally posted by ace _
> 
> *
> It seems to Me we are still trying to ketch up
> With Bruce & i reconise him as the 1st Mixed Martial Artist.
> 
> 
> What do U guy's think??? *



I think ketch up is great on a burger. Unless you are implying that mma is the heinz 57 of martial arts.


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## ace

But I fight!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 on 1
So don't sing it!:soapbox: :soapbox: :soapbox:


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## Kirk

> _Originally posted by ace _
> 
> *But I fight!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 on 1
> So don't sing it!:soapbox: :soapbox: :soapbox: *



Nah .. it's much more entertaining this way.

Strong like bull!  Smart like tractor!

:rofl:


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## ace

:redeme: :bird: :bird: :bird:


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## Blindside

> Bruce in My Eye's was the 1st Mixed Martial Artist.



I would disagree.  Martial artists have been cross-training between striking and grappling skills since well, forever.  Just one example of people who "strike, wrestle, and end in submission" is the formation of kajukenbo in 1947.  Bruce was about 3 then.  Bruce was just the most popular example, certainly not the first.

Lamont


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## RyuShiKan

I have to agree with Blindside.

Mixing martial arts is nothing new, ....in fact it has been done for centuries. People have always been adding things they have seen work. 

Ace, 

If you have trouble spelling most computers have a feature known as "spell check". Type whatever it is you want to say in an email form when your finished hit Ctrl + A and then F7. This will check everything on the page. 
Also, some friendly advice, if you would like to be taken seriously why don't you give the animation stuff a rest now and then............it gets old when it's over used.
And your more than occasional reference to you "fight" and how you will meet "anyone any place" and all the other chest pounding you do to act tough sounds and is childish.....give it rest. You could be the biggest baddest mother in the valley but you will never prove it that way........some 5 year old might be impressed but most adults know better.


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## ace

Anamation Rocks!!

Fighting is what i do.

Im new to the computer 
This is my 1st one.

Bruce was the 1st in the GLOVES, SHOES. & TRUNKS.

I may spell Bad but U guy can't read.
Im talkin about the sport!!

U guy's are takin about cross training.


& Kate Man U just keep talkin





 :wavey: :wavey: :wavey: :wavey: :wavey: :wavey:


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## Kempojujutsu

Let's hope you don't fight like you spell. Cause you would get your butt kicked.:rofl: 
Bob


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## ace

Wanna find out????????????????/


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## Kempojujutsu

Sure
Bob:rofl:


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## ace

Talk is cheap 
Let get it on


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## ace

I can set it up for combat Zone.
MMA.


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## Kempojujutsu

Two post and everything is spelled correctly. Good job Ace! :rofl: 
Bob


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## ace

Thank U Bob  
Now how about  Combat Zone.


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## tshadowchaser

Spelling aside.
 Bruce may have been one of the first to get alot of publicity and may have been one of the first to openly say he studied many systems ans styles and used what he thought best, but he really didnt compet.  
 He taught, studied, and made movies and televison shows. He was the right face at the right time and had talent to go with it. 
  Was he the first to use the pads and try grapleing also- not hardly, many of the old time schools found out  what could and could not be done with the pads on. 
 Was he good and did he help promote the martial arts-  yes

 shadow


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## ace

This is not what i am saying At all
He was the 1st to bring all of these 

Elements to the public eye.
The out fit the way of the fight.

Please.
 take another look at what i wrote.


Ill find spell check sooner or later

Until the Oooo
well


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## JDenz

I can't say anything about ace's spelling but I can say that he can sure fight =-), he is also a pretty intellegent guy.  And he could probley tell you the history of about 1000 martial arts


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## Bob Hubbard

Side note: See the support forum here for an add-in to Internet Explorer for spell checking.


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## Damian Mavis

Ace:  how old are you and how long you been training and how does your friend know you can fight well?  I'm just a curious george.

RyuShikan:  Why does it say account suspended under your name?  once again just curious.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD


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## ace

27, on & off My whole life since 4 or 5.
Seriously for the last 5 years of hard traning in a couple styles


Jdenz is a training partner of mine
He helped me train for my 1st 
MMA fight for Combat Zone.

Which i won with an In side heel hook.

And i don't know why something is 
suspended???
:wavey:
 :cheers:


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## Damian Mavis

What's combat zone?

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD


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## ace

It's an MMA event on the low 
end of the totoem pole.
It's held in a Ring.

They also ofer Submisson Matches 
& KickBoxing.

They are coming up for the 4th or 5th Event.
:asian:


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## Damian Mavis

Ah that's kool, I'm sure everyone starts out at small events.  Are you considering trying to go far with your MMA career?  And is combat zone in Buffalo?

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD


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## ace

Combat Zone is a Flowter
I fought in Grecce N.Y.

And yes MMA is what i want to do 
I train 6 days a week.

When im not training im on Martial Talk.

I like to mix up my Training
But most of it is on Submissons & Wrestling.

I am also Into Modern Arnis & Bondo  
Wepons are cool They are good to know about.

I do weight traning
& lots of Cardio.

I also plan on Doin some folk Wresteling
Turnaments As well as Naga & Joslyn's.
:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:


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## JDenz

RyuShiKan
Account Suspended

that is the guy with the suspended account don't know what that means.  Primo is a tough dude.  
     I just turned 25
   I have won NAGA no gi, seconded in the gi, USJJF open state champion, USJJF green belt and under national champion, UJjjf grappling only champ, 2 time national qualifier in NJCAA, and our team was ranked 13th in the nation my first year starting


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## JDenz

Oh ya I almost forgot 1-0 in MMA


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## Damian Mavis

Do you guys know about the Abu Dabi trials?

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD


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## ace

As always i've done some reserch.

These guy's started cross
 training to gether in the late 40's 

They finalised the formation of ther Art in the 60's.

How Ever from all the pic's I have seen 
Not 1 was in Shorts, Gloves & shoes.

In fact they were all in Black Gi's &  no shoes.
I saw not one Submisson Lock?

Not to say that they don't have them.
But in the 3 sires a checked out there were 
None shown.

Blind Side 
Rent Enter the Dragon Take a look
At the out fit's Bruce Lee & Samo Hung are wearing.

It is the 1st seen in the movie. 
Short's,Gloves & shoes

Most MMA fighters fight in Shorts & Gloves!

Shoes have both good & bad  to them
U have better traction for 
take downs & balance on the feet .

They are better Submisson Guy's to Use to lockout
Ankels.


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## JDenz

The ADCC Canada trials are over. 

CANADIAN SUBMISSION WRESTLING RESULTS! 
Submitted by: Mike McNeil
Posted On 09/10/2002

TEAM CANADA SHOWDOWN - TORONTO, CANADA September 7th, 2002 

PIC: TEAM CANADA - Ready for San Diego! 


The TEAM CANADA pre-Qualifiers for the ADCC's Submission Wrestling World Championships. The 5 men will represent TEAM CANADA at te upcoming North American Trials, Scheduled for October 5th in San Dirgo, California. Congratulations to these 5 men - and much more to come here at ADCC! 


Weight Class: 

65 KG (144.9 lbs.) and Under: Winner Shawn Krysa from Georgetown Ontario, out of Soares/Boreland. Wins in the finals via Points 

Runner Up: Matt Leo from Cobourg Ontario, out of KARMA martial arts. 


66 KG (145 lbs.) to 76 KG (168.9 lbs.): Winner Mark Bocek from Woodbridge Ontario. Out of Nova Uniao. Wins in the finals via arm-bar. 

Runner Up: Dan Elmy from Mississauga Ontario, out of Combat Arts. 


77 KG (169 lbs.) to 87 KG (193.9 lbs): Winner Dennis Kang from Burnaby B.C. Out of Marcus Soares. Wins in the finals via -1 - 0 points. 

Runner Up: Jeff Joslin from Hamilton On. Out of Joslins/Alliance. 


88 KG (194lbs.) to 98 KG (214.9 lbs):: Winner Terry Dellino from Laval Quebec. From Gelinas Martial Arts/Nova Uniao. Wins in the finals via 9-0 score. 

Runner Up: Fabian Verrazza from Mississauga Ontario from Premier martial Arts. 


99 KG (215 lbs.) and over: Winner Karim Byron from Ottawa Ontario. Out of Carver/Soares. Wins in the finals via rear-naked choke. 

Runner Up: Matt Simmons from Woodstock Ontario, out of London Jiu-Jitsu 

   The qualifiers were way to far for me to go on my budget to try and win the American qualifiers.   Besides there is no way I am close to there level.  If it was closer I would have entered.


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## Damian Mavis

"Winner Karim Byron from Ottawa Ontario. Out of Carver/Soares. Wins in the finals via rear-naked choke"

That's why I asked you, he's a friend of mine and we both train at Carver's.  I was really happy for him.  

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD


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## JDenz

Cool good for him


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## arnisador

> _Originally posted by ace _
> *Bruce Lee was the 1st Mixed Martial Artist.*



Certainly he mixed several martial arts, though he had a strong Wing Chun base.



> *
> What do U guy's think Was Bruce the 1st*



People having been mixing two or more arts and coming up with a third for ages. Look at Judo--it's mixed from, what, 14 different arts? Isshin-ryu had components of Goju, Shorin, and even Aikido.

Mixing arts is an age-old tradition!


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## Elfan

It might be better to say that Bruce Lee was repsonsible for the idea of mixing arts for yourself and not forming some new sytem out of them.


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## arnisador

Hmmm, this is a good point; he certainly popularized the idea.


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## MartialArtist

Wing chun had a lot of locking, although in his book, he draws a lot of submission moves, locks, and traps from jujitsu and throws from judo.

He is not the first mixed martial artist, he is the one for making it popular, but not the first.


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## ace

I say it was Bruce!


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## JDenz

That is a good argument


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## Humble artist

Just my humble opinion.

Bruce was very,very famous,it seems unlikely to me that he would have been the first to...
As previously said,many traditional arts come from each other.
And many traditional arts,as an add,shine in "all areas of combat",including weapons etc. not seen in MMA (of course they are old but...)


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## ace

People were 2 busy creating Tradition
To follow it.

Bruce was the 1st to take the Grappling,Striking&Trapping
& put them all together.

Watch Enter The Dragon & Game of Death

These are perfect excampels


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## white belt

Ancient Greek Pankration and the OLD Jujitsu are two RECORDED examples.  Necessity in olden times dictated that striking AND grappling be known for warfare survival, when devoid of an additional weapon.  Technologys existance has caused a disservice of sorts that most people don't consider.  Many of the recorded firsts are really only the FIRST recorded due to technology being around at the time of their existance.  Predecessors of comparable quality preceded the techological distribution era and did not receive proper recognition in many cases, I would wager.  "The victors of war are the authors of history", I believe it was said.  What if the records describing Greek Pankration were kept secretive or destroyed?  How many other systems and groups came and went throughout history that were as noteable as Pankration, Jujitsu and JKD that were not recorded or disclosed to the populace?  We will never know.  Jim Arvanitis was doing Modern Pankration in the late 1960s.  If he were in Hollywood then, and Bruce Lee were on the East coast never seeking an acting career, would Arvanitis be considered the Grandfather of MMA instead?  The wheel is reinvented time and again.  Was Bruce Lee a great Martial Artist in my opinion?  Yes.  Was he the first to recombine elements that periodically have seperated throughout history?  Most likely not.  He was a genious that understood and developed an idea, on his own, that had already been done prior w/o his knowledge. No one has a patent on truth.

Another thought to ponder: If Bruce Lee was a quadrapelegic before developing JKD, would JKD exist?  His physical capabilities/genetics were very good marketing tools.  Would he have been able to convince anyone to any substantial extent, as to the value of his ideas w/o moving?  How would he have gained such an audience?

white belt


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## J-kid

Bruce lee was a actor , Not so much a figher as much as a Actor.  Its what he did,  He was no super martial artist.  He was good but he was not the greatest in the world or anything even close.
But from what i could tell he was cool,  I also like his movies.


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## white belt

JK

Kind of like Ronald Reagan?  The good acting skills enhanced the believability of his skills as a politician?  Watching Bruces movies and studying his MA science texts, I feel that Bruce's acting was trailing well behind his MA skills myself.

How about his being the first in mixing up chop chop?

white belt 

p.s.
You know chop chop?


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## yilisifu

Most so-called "traditional styles" were once known (in their day) as MMA.  Somebody combined this with some of that and developed something new.

   Bruce Lee didn't want his "style" named.  But it is.

   Bruce wasn't the first and won't be the last.  He might've been the first MMA stylist to star in movies, though.

:rofl:


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## ace

??//


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## white belt

Specifically one person?  Jigoro Kano would qualify in my mind.  He took the best techniques, from the best Jujitsu schools, and started his art of Judo.  Strikes, throws, groundfighting, pressure points all were taught in the official kata and self defense.  The randori (free sparring) concentrated/s on mainly standing and ground grappling though.  An interesting thing, the Judo of old has been repeatedly spoken of as lost or too dilluted.  BJJ escaped that fate, concerning their groundfighting, and this allows us a peek back in time at the original Judo ground game.  Some contrast!  What a difference in just a few generations!  Is JKD or MMA headed for the same fate, I wonder?

white belt


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## ace

Good selection of a Great Judo Man
But he was most intristed in throws

He even alterd the rules when the 
kosen Judoka were wining all the turnaments
in Newaza.

Also he never a loud strikes in the matches


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## white belt

Ace,

Good points.  The striking was practiced during kata and self defense only.  So, if speaking in terms of tournament style competition only, Kano would not qualify.  My next selection would be Jim Arvanitis of Modern Pankration fame.  He was doing MMA in the late 60's.  His framework is Freestyle/Greco Roman, Western Boxing, Muay Thai style kicks  and Submissions from various grappling arts.  He had a tournament style framework within his school/organization so the students could sharpen blending ranges/attributes with an uncooperative partner.  He is one of the biggest MMA unsung heroes of modern times.

white belt


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## ace

But Jim's exposer came in 1971 when he was on the cover of several magazines.:asian:


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## JDenz

Good luck arguing with Primo about MMA lol.


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## ace

But if im Wrong i will admit so .


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## JDenz

I know that is why I said good luck arguing with her


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## white belt

How about the Kajukenbo guys?  I have not read about their history in a great deal of time, but they were men from different Martial Arts who studied together in Hawaii to create their own blend combining striking and grappling.  I believe this took place in the 1940s.  The name is a composite of Jujitsu, Karate, Kenpo, etc.  Anyone else with more info., about Kajukenbo, that can assist?

Also, Jim Arvanitis being on the cover of Black Belt in 1971 does not mean he started in 1971.

white belt


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## ace

The Subject of Kajukenbo has been discused here on
Martial Talk Before.

I have been doing some Reserch on as well
& Yes i find it to be verry well rounded.

But it is not credidt to 1 person
nor did it divide the arts in equal per por tions (spelled Wrong)
im sure.

For instance they do cosintrate for a more 
Stand up Karate Type Art.
They realy do not practise Much Ground Or Grappling 
even tho Judo/Ju Jutsu is sapose to be part of the art.

Note
-------
This is my personal Re serch as far as reading
&  questioning people exposed to the art.
________________________________________--------------
Now as Far as Jim Goes No 1971 waz not 
When he started, He is a great exampel of a Martial Artist

I take nothing from that He was a head of the Times
& has even refered to Bruce as a reason for this

Look up Black belt & inside Karate Mags.
U will run into the artical.


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## white belt

Ace,

You are nullifying your own argument and traveling in a circle. If you are looking for an example of balance between striking and grappling in MMA, then Bruce Lee himself is a POOR EXAMPLE.  Most of his art was centered around stand up and striking techniques.  Most of that influence shifted from Wing Chun to Western Boxing.  Just as "unbalanced" as Kajukenbo using mostly Karate.  Lee did not have much grappling at all, compared to the striking, in the JKD he himself developed before his death.  The grappling attributes were heavily added to after his death by others (BJJ, Pancrase, etc.).  You mentioned in an earlier post that Kano does not qualify due to his heavy emphasis on throws in Randori and using Atemi Waza only in self defense and kata.  Lee and Kano would then be the same, if using the "one more than the other" (more striking than grappling and vice versa) argument, when defining MMA.  Also, Lee did not have a competition format set up for his JKD whereas most of the MMAs find this essential to prove or demonstrate their wares.  Inosanto taught Bruce Philipino techs.  Hartsell taught him wrestling techs.  Yip Man taught him Wing Chun. Hayward Nishioka taught him Judo techs.  Jack Dempsey shared Boxing techs. through distance communication and old fight footage.  Bruce was being shown things by others to make his style. Kind of like Kajukenbo!  Inosanto, Hartsell, James Lee etc. all taught something to Bruce and he in return shared his data collection back with them.  The main Kempo stylist (Emperado?) did the same in Kajukenbo.  You need to define YOUR definition of MMAs more clearly and see if it fits the JKD structure FIRST.  You may be trying to compare apples and oranges here and defeating your quest.  It's kind of like the courtroom trick of an Attorney asking a defendent "Have you stopped beating your wife?" and forcing him to answer with only a "yes or no" response.  An innocent man is incriminated with either response!  Please define your question more succinctly and I may be able to help you pin down an answer.  If that is your real goal(?).


white belt


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## ace

2nd Bruce Lee Had no Art Read it U will Know
There Was Great in sight into Judo,Juitsu 
As well as Wrestling.

Also he speaks That when U Realy Under Stand There 
Is no Art Only Human Expression.

Another Ask Gene Lebell About Bruce & Grappling
Or Wally Jay While Both Have Noted He was a Great striker
But A Verry Well Rounded Grappler.

Case Closed White Belt.


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## Bob Hubbard

Mod Note : Duplicate threads merged.


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## white belt

Ace,

Been there, done that on reading the "Tao of JKD".  All you or any other person has to do is look closely at Bruce's curriculum for the people he taught.  The curriculum is widely publicized in his books.  His students also point out, in the books they published, MOSTLY striking concepts were taught by Bruce.  The MINORITY of moves taught by Bruce personally are grappling.  Ground grappling is treated with even LESS attention when compared with the clinch, throws or stand up grappling.  Any curriculum taught by Bruce's main students, after his death, that has any extensive grappling draws upon another source or sources to fill in the gaps of circumstances not yet fully explored and given final evaluation by Bruce.  If anything was added after Bruce's death, the 1st generation for the most part, do not call it Jun Fan JKD because it is not what Bruce taught.  They call it their OWN personal JKD or they teach it seperately from the JKD taught by Bruce.  This was one of the factors involved in the "Concepts" JKD splitting off from the "Original" JKD practicioners.  The Concepts people include moves from BJJ, as well as other sources besides Bruce, to fill in gaps that became apparent when doing MMA.  Bruce's work was largely incomplete at the time of his death and this is why you see greats like Erik Paulson studying Shooto, BJJ, etc.  Erik's Jun Fan JKD lessons simply do not address some of the MMA circumstances that these grappling arts can and do.

Bruce Lee had the striking attributes to compete in the Octagon or Pride, but not near enough grappling attributes.  His untimely death prevented this.  So again I will repeat.......DEFINE your definition of MMAs.  Thus far Arvanitis, Kano, Emperado AND Ji Han Jae precede Bruce under the vagueness of your question.  If you disagree, DEFINE and then give FACTS to disprove these men.  The mostly "this or that style" argument fails, because Bruce too could be categorized in this way, based on the history I have shared and what he taught.  DEFINE MMA.


white belt


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## ace

U'd know there is no art 
)Only Human Expression


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## ace

.


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## white belt

> _Originally posted by ace _
> *U'd know there is no art
> )Only Human Expression *



Ace,

I think I get it now.  When that guy flips me off in traffic for not allowing him to cut in front of me, he is expressing his own "PERSONAL JKD"!  Kind of like the INSTANT ZEN concept.  You know, the one where the student of Zen asks the Head Monk "What is Zen?".  The Head Monk replies by beating him about the head w/a big stick.  Middle finger=Big stick=Straight blast?


white belt


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## ace

:bird:


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## white belt

Ace,

Now THAT was deep!  And your definition of Analytical Thinking would beee......?

There is a test over at the "Health Tips" area on the thread titled " Ephedra debate".  It involves a Ferret.  I really think you need to do this test.  It could mean a whole new level of "Personal JKD"!!

Glad to help!
white belt


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## bob919

bruce lee was forced to train himself fortunately it was actually advantageous to him if he hadn't have been expelled from wing chun he may have just done wingchun


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## ace

When Was Bruce Expelled from Wing Chun????
To My Knowledge,
He Left China after almost killing a man.
And That is Y he Left.

Please Let Me Know???//////


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## yilisifu

To my knowledge, he left Hong Kong to attend college in the U.S.


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## ace

:redeme: :wavey:


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## ThuNder_FoOt

Also to my knowledge, Lee left Hong Kong to attend college in the U.S.

:asian:


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## ace

From What i know College came after he was 
Already Here.

He was Working as a Dish Washer
Got Laid Off.

And his imployer gave him an all perpas loan.
U guy's should pick up his mothers book on him or the 1 his Wife Wrote.


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## yilisifu

I've never had enough interest in him to bother buying books on his biography.


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## ace

Thats To bad Sice He was a verry important Man in M.A.
And he lead a Verry interesting Life.


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## Ronin

remember bruce lee a lot of his knowledge from Ed Parker


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## yilisifu

I don't know if he borrowed some of Mr. Parker's ideas...I do know that he stayed with Parker for some time and it was Parker who introduced him to the Hollywood crowd which is eventually what made him famous.
   He and Parker differed on several points, particularly as regards teaching.  Bruce had little patience for students who couldn't learn quickly.  Parker emphasized that a good teacher needed to have such a quality...this kind of thing is what caused them to ultimately end their relationship.


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## James Kovacich

> _Originally posted by white belt _
> *Ancient Greek Pankration and the OLD Jujitsu are two RECORDED examples.  Necessity in olden times dictated that striking AND grappling be known for warfare survival, when devoid of an additional weapon.  Technologys existance has caused a disservice of sorts that most people don't consider.  Many of the recorded firsts are really only the FIRST recorded due to technology being around at the time of their existance.  Predecessors of comparable quality preceded the techological distribution era and did not receive proper recognition in many cases, I would wager.  "The victors of war are the authors of history", I believe it was said.  What if the records describing Greek Pankration were kept secretive or destroyed?  How many other systems and groups came and went throughout history that were as noteable as Pankration, Jujitsu and JKD that were not recorded or disclosed to the populace?  We will never know.  Jim Arvanitis was doing Modern Pankration in the late 1960s.  If he were in Hollywood then, and Bruce Lee were on the East coast never seeking an acting career, would Arvanitis be considered the Grandfather of MMA instead?  The wheel is reinvented time and again.  Was Bruce Lee a great Martial Artist in my opinion?  Yes.  Was he the first to recombine elements that periodically have seperated throughout history?  Most likely not.  He was a genious that understood and developed an idea, on his own, that had already been done prior w/o his knowledge. No one has a patent on truth.
> 
> Another thought to ponder: If Bruce Lee was a quadrapelegic before developing JKD, would JKD exist?  His physical capabilities/genetics were very good marketing tools.  Would he have been able to convince anyone to any substantial extent, as to the value of his ideas w/o moving?  How would he have gained such an audience?
> 
> white belt *



1st.- Bruces physical capabilities he earned through various training, it was not genetics.

2nd- The original Greek Pancration which is "extinct" and the Samuries Jujutsu, I beleive are the first forms of MMA. Although neither exist today in their true form.

Jim Arvinitis had  great vision but he himself, which you probably know, he re-created.


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## James Kovacich

> _Originally posted by ace _
> *U'd know there is no art
> )Only Human Expression *



Thats kind of right but not really.

Bruce had his own art- Jun Fan Gung-Fu.

The art of Human Expression is the final phase of JKD where you as the individual experience the art of no art, using no way as way, having no limitation as limitaion....

Jun Fan and JKD are two halves of the whole. One without the other is not complete. 

If you are practicing JKD without ever learning Jun Fan, then you are not really practicing JKD. JKD is a process of developing your tools(Jun Fan), hacking away at your essentials and refining your tools BEFORE you "use what is useful, reject what is useless and add specifically is your own."

So you will learn "Bruces" art of Jun Fan before learning "your" JKD.

You can verify that with any major JKD player. The differances besides opinions on interpetation comes with every new generation. Because with every new generation, it is destiny for more of "what is specifically added," thus less Jun Fan.

Jun Fan is the art and JKD is the self expression of ones own personal art which is the ultimate destination.


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## James Kovacich

> _Originally posted by yilisifu _
> *Most so-called "traditional styles" were once known (in their day) as MMA.  Somebody combined this with some of that and developed something new.
> 
> Bruce Lee didn't want his "style" named.  But it is.
> 
> Bruce wasn't the first and won't be the last.  He might've been the first MMA stylist to star in movies, though.
> 
> :rofl: *



That is all true!

But it was Bruce himself who gave it two names, Jun Fan Gung-Fu and Jeet Kune Do and later changed his mind. 

If he had not died, things may have been differant but by the time of his death too many people had been affected for there not to be "all" that what we see has come about leading up to today.


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## J-kid

I heard bruce lee died from a drug over douce in hong kong.

I heard about it from a really old penthouse magizen artical, some one told me about it.

I dont know if it is true? anythoughts/


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## ace

> _Originally posted by akja _
> *Thats kind of right but not really.
> 
> Bruce had his own art- Jun Fan Gung-Fu.
> 
> The art of Human Expression is the final phase of JKD where you as the individual experience the art of no art, using no way as way, having no limitation as limitaion....
> 
> Jun Fan and JKD are two halves of the whole. One without the other is not complete.
> 
> If you are practicing JKD without ever learning Jun Fan, then you are not really practicing JKD. JKD is a process of developing your tools(Jun Fan), hacking away at your essentials and refining your tools BEFORE you "use what is useful, reject what is useless and add specifically is your own."
> 
> So you will learn "Bruces" art of Jun Fan before learning "your" JKD.
> 
> You can verify that with any major JKD player. The differances besides opinions on interpetation comes with every new generation. Because with every new generation, it is destiny for more of "what is specifically added," thus less Jun Fan.
> 
> Jun Fan is the art and JKD is the self expression of ones own personal art which is the ultimate destination. *



It was Bruce who said Jeet Kune Do
is Simply to simplify,favor formlessness
to asume all forms.
He said on the Long Street  show
i don't belive in styels cause when it comes to fighting
Baby U better train your Whole Body.

I trained with Tom Macaluso Who is certified by Dan Inosanto
for about a year & a Half We trained JKD,Kali & Mauy Thai


:yinyang:


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## ace

> _Originally posted by Judo-kid _
> *I heard bruce lee died from a drug over douce in hong kong.
> 
> I heard about it from a really old penthouse magizen artical, some one told me about it.
> 
> I dont know if it is true? anythoughts/ *



I heard it was an alergic reaction to a pill
not an overdose.

I also heard alot of Stuff on this Subject
But i guess the Truth will Stay in the Closet


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## Elfan

> _Originally posted by Judo-kid _
> *I heard bruce lee died from a drug over douce in hong kong.
> 
> I heard about it from a really old penthouse magizen artical, some one told me about it.
> 
> I dont know if it is true? anythoughts/ *



I suggest you read Unsettled Matters: The Life & Death of Bruce Lee by Tom Bleecker.  It details many of the theories regaurding his death and is an excelent book overall.


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## ace

> _Originally posted by Elfan _
> *I suggest you read Unsettled Matters: The Life & Death of Bruce Lee by Tom Bleecker.  It details many of the theories regaurding his death and is an excelent book overall. *


Im gonna look into that my self  thanks for the post


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## J-kid

I also heard he was super paranod towards the end. 
And he was having alot of whores come to his room.
Not to mention he was well armed.


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## J-kid

Its hard to tell what is the truth.
The press tells people what they want to hear and what they can't hind.

The other stuff is questionable.
Wether to believe or not to believe that is the question.

For those who believe no explanation is neccary.  
and for those who don't believe no explanation is possible.


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## James Kovacich

> _Originally posted by ace _
> *It was Bruce who said Jeet Kune Do
> is Simply to simplify,favor formlessness
> to asume all forms.
> He said on the Long Street  show
> i don't belive in styels cause when it comes to fighting
> Baby U better train your Whole Body.
> 
> I trained with Tom Macaluso Who is certified by Dan Inosanto
> for about a year & a Half We trained JKD,Kali & Mauy Thai
> 
> 
> :yinyang: *



You're right, but before that he was running around talking about his new martial art he created. 

To achieve certification from Dan Inosanto, I beleive he does teach them Jun Fan.

What you are talking about is the "final destination."

To get there you have to get on the boat and cross the river before you can abandon the boat.

Heres where I was trained:

http://www.geocities.com/Tao_Of_Gung_Fu/The_Nucleus_Of_Gung_Fu.html


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## JDenz

From everything that I read he died because an allergic reaction caused his Brain to swell up.  He supposedly was with a woman who he saw regularly that was not his wife when he was he took the asprin pain killer.  I am not sure if they ever did a tox. scan to see what he took, but I guess it was supposed to be an over the counter pain killer.


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## Infight

Its all a lie, the truth is BRUCE WAS MURDERED, but different as they say, he was murdered by a 12 yrs old kid with a knife that tried to rob him, since he was claimed as a supreme fighter, his sponsor decided to dont put it on news, so they covered it with something about illness.
            Thats the truth, believe or not.


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## baronv

Anyone know where to get a video of Bruce when he was demonstrating at the Long Beach MA Internationals?


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## ace

> _Originally posted by Infight _
> *Its all a lie, the truth is BRUCE WAS MURDERED, but different as they say, he was murdered by a 12 yrs old kid with a knife that tried to rob him, since he was claimed as a supreme fighter, his sponsor decided to dont put it on news, so they covered it with something about illness.
> Thats the truth, believe or not. *


No I don't belive it.

And Were did the Info come from??


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## James Kovacich

> _Originally posted by Infight _
> *Its all a lie, the truth is BRUCE WAS MURDERED, but different as they say, he was murdered by a 12 yrs old kid with a knife that tried to rob him, since he was claimed as a supreme fighter, his sponsor decided to dont put it on news, so they covered it with something about illness.
> Thats the truth, believe or not. *



When someone is dead there is always going to be rumors about who whooped him and how he died and who he bowed down to.

Dosen't change the facts. They are still just rumors.


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## Infight

Thats what i said, believe it of not, im just telling you the truth.


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## Elfan

> _Originally posted by baronv _
> *Anyone know where to get a video of Bruce when he was demonstrating at the Long Beach MA Internationals? *



As that was before th time where cameras were common it would be hard to find.  I have never seen such a video for sale.  I'm sure at least some of the many documentaries have some footage of it.  Or you could belive the riculous scence from "Dragon."

Anyway if you search on a file sharing network you should be able to find a grainy little clip of Bruce Lee demonstrating his one inch punch at the internationals.


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## Blindside

> Anyone know where to get a video of Bruce when he was demonstrating at the Long Beach MA Internationals?



Actually, I think someone is distributing a copy of that on ebay.  I've never really paid attention, but it often shows up under a kenpo search.  I think the title is "long beach internationals" or somesuch.  Good luck.

Lamont


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