# Technique Situations - Sword & Hammer



## c2kenpo (Oct 7, 2002)

This should be fun! Got this from another thread with phoenix! (thanks)
This thread is to discuss the "situation" of the technique not the technique or it's excecution itself. What we are looking for is environmental ideas and situations as to "How did we end up in this situation" For an example I have chosen Sword & Hammer for easy explanation.

We teach a number of applications but a great example of it is multiple attackers in a two man scenario. 

Attacker one throws overhead/roundhouse club and defender does something lets say Calming the Storm (lets try and stay simple on this) or Obstructing the Storm. Defender stuns or Ko's attacker 1 and his buddy attacker 2 grabs defender by the  right shoulder (DING!) because he just watched you grind his buddy into goo and tada you go into Sword and Hammer!

Lets stay in ideal phase of the attacks but start adding things like envorinment and "what if's"  Pick your technique yourself!
Have fun, Keep it clean, and come out fighting!

Dave "C2"


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## Goldendragon7 (Nov 3, 2002)

> _Originally posted by c2kenpo _*
> Lets stay in "IDEAL PHASE" of the attacks but start "adding things" like envorinment and go into "what if's"  Dave "C2"
> *



LOL, seems you are a little confused about the differences of what "Ideal" and "what if" means.  

If you change anything from the "ideal" you automatically go into the "what if" phase.

:asian:


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## c2kenpo (Nov 3, 2002)

Not confused. Very aware of ideal phase. Just toying with the idea and was not looking for people to go off on crazy tangents of if the attacker was close, far away, where in posistion, etc etc, I was just looking for the "beginning" ideal phase. 

However after a month of no response. Either not interesting enough a topic or just no one cared to express thier opinion.
"shrugs"

Dave


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## Goldendragon7 (Nov 3, 2002)

> _Originally posted by c2kenpo _*
> Not confused. Very aware of ideal phase. Just toying with the idea and was not looking for people to go off on crazy tangents of if the attacker was close, far away, where in posistion, etc etc, I was just looking for the "beginning" ideal phase.
> 
> However after a month of no response. Either not interesting enough a topic or just no one cared to express thier opinion.
> ...



ok not trying to press you but you in your prior post you said and I quote ...

" Lets stay in ideal phase of the attacks but start adding things like environment and "what if's".

This implies to me (help me understand what you are saying if I'm not on target) that you START with the IDEAL phase "but"  then you "ALTER CONDITIONS" which then turn it into a what if scenario of some type. 

Then in your last post you say you want to just look at the beginning Ideal Phase.  This does not make sense to me.  

Please explain so I know where you want to start and with what.

:asian:


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## c2kenpo (Nov 3, 2002)

I understand your confusion about the thread. (I hope)

Okay what I was trying to do was, starting in the beggining create a attack scenario but try to remain in the "ideal" phase when laying out the defense scenario. 

I was trying to invite people to discuss 2-3 man attack situations and remain as close to the ideal phase as possible without getting to extemporaneous. 

This was just an excercise that we ran some of our students through (yellow & orange) just too see what they came up with and I was just opening it up here as well. 

Hope that helps.

Dave Gunzburg


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## Goldendragon7 (Nov 3, 2002)

That is somewhat what I thought you were trying to do.  Ok,   This sounds like it's rooted from a Dennis Lawson or Skip type drill on technique understanding.

Very useful and fun!

:asian: 

Tell R.S. I said Hi


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## c2kenpo (Nov 3, 2002)

Boy are all of us Mitchell's boys that durn obvious!!

Right out of the book so to speak!

I will!


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## Goldendragon7 (Nov 3, 2002)

I agree that this is a good start to learn to "blend" or develop early gaseous techniques into multiple attack scenairos without any modifications to current technique base.  (first things first) 


Execute Sword and Hammer on the right side...... then from 12'clock a left punch comes at you.... step forward to twelve and go into dance of death...........

:asian:


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## c2kenpo (Nov 3, 2002)

Thank you sir!

That is exactly what I was trying to accomplish with this thread. I have my notebook of ideas that takes the base techniques and builds multiple attackers from it. 
I was hoping to get insight from others on thier ideas and suggestions.

But you hit it right on the button as to what I was attempting.

I began building multiple attacker scenarios from 2-8 using this same idea. First letting the attacker positions develop from the base yellow - purple (as I should be testing for blue this friday)
any thoughts to how I should develop the 8 man form and begin including environment to it? (What would be the first element of environement to think of?) 

your thoughts sir would be appreciated.


Keeping on thred tho

Attacker begins at 12:00 and starts with a left punch excecute Shielding Hammer next attacker begins at 9:00 with a right punch moving into Leaping Crane

That was the thought for this thread.
 :asian:


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## Elfan (Nov 3, 2002)

Now that I actually understand what you mean thats prety cool.  Last time I tested for a belt I needed a form or two so for one of them I took a theme (in this case web of knowledge: punches) and made a form by bascially doing what you said. Sometimes I finishd the technique, sometimes I  was attacked before I covered, and other times I was attacked in the middle of my technique. It was prety cool ( or at least I thought so).

Attacking Mace on the right side, cover , then Sword and hammer on the left side.

c2, do you have the kids make up their own forms often?


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## Goldendragon7 (Nov 3, 2002)

That's what I thought........ hee hee.....

Well, the first element to Environment could be anything you want it to be....... weather, obsticles ie. tables chairs, wall,  unleveled ground, sand..... etc. many ........ within the envrionment there can be much to deal with.  So, it all depends upon what your "theme" would consist of...... maybe run the gamin on different environmental possibilities....... wow the sky is the limit here.

:asian: 


do Delayed Sword towards 12 o'clock, then at the completion of the right outward swordhand .....step to 9 with your left foot and continue the outward chopping motion into a downward block and go right into Deflecting Hammer with the attack coming from 3.



p.s. good luck on your test!!!!


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## Goldendragon7 (Nov 3, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Elfan _*
> Do you have the kids make up their own forms often?
> *



If that question was directed to me.... the answer is yes.   Starting at Purple and each belt on, it is part of the learning experience (the process) and curriculum.

:asian:


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## c2kenpo (Nov 3, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Elfan _
> 
> c2, do you have the kids make up their own forms often? [/B]



Elfan,

Mostly Adults at yellow and above we will play like this using what we have. At first confusing then they start to laugh at how fun it is.

GoldenDragon7,

I think I am going to apply the first elemet of my form as where opponents may end up laying afte a hit and possible recuperations. The first environmental challenge in an open street fight may be tripping over your downed opponents legs. 
What do you think?

12:00 Triggered Salute to 6:00 Captured Twigs he he he
told ya this could be fun!


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## Elfan (Nov 4, 2002)

Goldendragon7, the question was for c2 but thanks for the info.  Do you give your students a theme for their forms or have them come up with that themselves as well?


c2, I'd think walls and tables and other big heavy things that don't move well woudl be your first consideration.  Where the bodies are falling is probably the next thign to think about.

Lone kimono towards 12, captured leaves on the left from  7:30.


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## Goldendragon7 (Nov 4, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Elfan _*
> Do you give your students a theme for their forms or have them come up with that themselves as well?
> *



of the time I as them what they would like to do one on but if they need help I throw out some suggestions.  It also depends on what rank they are...... the higher ranks usually have had enough experience to choose a good theme themselves.

:asian: 

Sword and Hammer (L to 9) then Delayed Sword (R to 12) then Captured Twigs (R to 3:30)

:asian:


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## c2kenpo (Nov 4, 2002)

Elfan,

I do want to add those elements into my theme, I am just looking at the eight man attack scenario in an open field, i.e the footbal game where you make a "calming" comment to a rude parent and the situation goes downhill from there. I should actually change this theme to innocent bystanders and controlled attacks.

Just a thought.

Sword of Destruction at 12(R to 9) Delayed Sword to 3 Sword and Hammer to 9 (L to 5:30) Obstructing the Storm at 6


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## Goldendragon7 (Nov 4, 2002)

I think you've got it!!

:asian:


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