# Jiu Jitsu VS Aikido



## speakman

Hey guys. NOT saying one is better than the other, but I started takign Aikido...long story short, ran out of money and lost my job :-( SO I can't afford it right now. 
But I ve found a small group that trains in Jiu Jitsu for cheap (they seem to lvoe it, not worry about money, but are black belts...) 

Anyway, supposedly my Aikido is a made Self Defense Aikido...just wondering what the differences in style would be against Nihon Goshin Aikido and Jiu Jitsu.

any help, would lvoe


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## Blooming Lotus

Sure.  Here's another conversation on the same question : http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5496

or check this out : http://www.piteraq.dk/aikido/

cheers 

BL


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## Erik

Aikido guy had better watch his range and stay on his feet.

Jiu jitsu guy had better watch his wrists and elbows, keeping them in close.

Aikido is good at handling clothing grabs which is a big part of Judo.

Jiu Jitsu guy would be well advised to shoot leg takedowns from a very close range, not giving the aikido guy the space to blend and redirect.

Once on the ground... well, that's jiu jitsu territory.

Just my take on it.


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## dosandojang

Dr. Kano sent Mifune and other Top Kodokan Judokas to learn from O Sensei! If anyone has ever seen Mifune Sensei in action, you can TOTALLY see his Judo is Ki Based and Ai Ki Do influenced! It is BEAUTY IN MOTION!


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## Patrick Skerry

Jiu Jitsu does not automatically mean Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, or some type of wrestling.

Aikido and Hakko-ryu Jiu Jitsu both came from Daito-ryu Aikijitsu which itself is derived from jiu-jitsu.

Aikido and jiu-jitsu both contain atemi waza, wrist locks, arm locks, finger locks, and joint locks, as well as leg locks and other ground fighting stuff.

So an Aikidoist and a jiu-jitsuist in H2H combat would encounter pretty much the same techniques used against each other.


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## spatulahunter

i say jujutsu is way better than aikido.....actually im just saying that since i do jujutsu and not aikido hehe. They are both good arts and many aikido students are also daito ryu jujutsu students because that is where the art originated from. If you like aikido and cant afford it but have found jujutsu guys to work out with then you will probably enjoy that as well because they are so similar. Now if its brazilian jiu jitsu then it will be different but you still may enjoy that as well. If its not costing you anythign then you might as well check it out because to someone who is broke that sounds like a great option


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## auxprix

dosandojang said:
			
		

> Dr. Kano sent Mifune and other Top Kodokan Judokas to learn from O Sensei! If anyone has ever seen Mifune Sensei in action, you can TOTALLY see his Judo is Ki Based and Ai Ki Do influenced! It is BEAUTY IN MOTION!


It is very, very common for masters in Japan (of everything, not just MA) to send top students to others for the purpose of seeing what the deal is.


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## dosandojang

Yes it is!


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## Gray Phoenix

Here is my take on these to Arts.
Jujitsu is very combat oriented. Should a fight flow through to its ultimate conclusion, Jujitsu's aim is to immobilize the attacker. This may come from a throw, joint lock, barring technique, choke/strangle or from any number of strikes, but the intent is still to end the fight with no rules, so holds barred, and the potential death and or permanent injury to the attacker. 

Aikido is a very spiritual art. The true Aikidoka will seek to avoid the fight and create an atmosphere of peace to prevent the fight form ever having to take place. Should the fight flow through to the ultimate conclusion, Aikido's aim is to end the fight with no injury being inflicted. This may come from a throw, joint lock, barring technique or any number of strikes, but the ultimate intent is to avoid injury to the attacker.

Aikido is Jujitsu under a different philosophy. Should a Jujitsu Master meet an Aikido Master no fight would take place. Both would seek a peaceful means of resolution. 
However, should a conflict be unavoidable, I think the real difference is that the Jujitsuka would not care about the health of the attacker until the fight was finished in one form or the other, as opposed to the Aikidoka who would try to prevent such injury during the battle. :asian:


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## Patrick Skerry

speakman said:
			
		

> Hey guys. NOT saying one is better than the other, but I started takign Aikido...long story short, ran out of money and lost my job :-( SO I can't afford it right now.
> But I ve found a small group that trains in Jiu Jitsu for cheap (they seem to lvoe it, not worry about money, but are black belts...)
> 
> Anyway, supposedly my Aikido is a made Self Defense Aikido...just wondering what the differences in style would be against Nihon Goshin Aikido and Jiu Jitsu.
> 
> any help, would lvoe


It depends on what style of Jiu-jitsu you study. Please don't study Brazillian Jiu Jitsu for self-defense 'cause you'll only get your *** kicked.

Aiki-do was developed from Aiki-jitsu just as Ju-do was developed from Jiu-jitsu. The 'do' ending is a dead giveaway that it has been watered down to be more humane; the practice of traditional pre-1868 Aiki-jitsu is equivalent to the instruction of homocide.

Any half-way decent self-defense style will always include weapons practice. In Japan, modern Jiu-jitsu incorporates the use of an automatic pistol, along with some still useful traditional weapons (like a knife).

Remember unarmed combat was only resorted to when your primary weapon was incapacitated (sword, knife, spear, bow & arrow, or gun are disabled for some reason). So it is always to your advantage to be proficient at arms in a self-defense situation.

Aiki-do is still primarily a self-defense style but lacks the physical realism of Judo, and Judo doesn't get into self-defense until several years of study.  It takes a long, long time to become good at either Judo or Aikido, so its best to start young (like before 10 years old).


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## theletch1

It does, indeed, take a while to become proficient at the aikido thing, or any art for that matter.  Speakman stated that he studied Nihon Goshin Aikido.  That's the style I study.  This particular style is not one of the Ueshiba sub-styles.  It has a seperate lineage altogether and it has been my experience that most of the do no harm mentality has been removed.  The mindset to the training as well as the execution of many of the techniques taught are much closer to aiki-jitsu than there more spiritual traditional aikido counterparts.  Which style is better is a question that has been debated ad nauseum on the boards and my answer is always the same...no art is better than another generally.  It's how well a particular arts matches the practitioner that should matter.  Find an art that you are comfortable with and serves the purpose for which you train and dive in.  Good luck, Speakman, no matter which art you decide to train in.


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## Angelusmortis

Although jujitsu could probably be considered to be the grandfather of Japanese MA, or at least Aikido and Judo, mates of mine who have been training in both jujitsu AND aikido tend to find the styles compliment each other very, very well. One of those mates does Wing Chun with me, and has even managed to work a bit of Aikido wrist locking into it. All good fun.


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## jdolsenmau

I train both these styles and yes the do work together very well.  
After having trained in Aikido, the jj stuff fills in the gaps that aikido leaves out and vise versa.  I also train Kali which again seems to fill in the voids they both leave out like knife fighting and weapon fighting on the ground.  Also the trapping in kali leads to the joint locks in aikido real nicely.
Go for it man, whats to lose.  If you don't like it you quit.


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## still learning

Hello,  This is a great question.  No real easy answers. Good to listen too.
  I enjoy all the opinions.  I guess it is one of those "maybe or maybe not" . ....Aloha


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## Novitiate

Interesting and temperate discussion.

 I was wondering if anyone had any experience in Danzan Riu JuJitsu and the similarities/differences between differeing JuJitsu arts, Aikido, and Judo.


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## silatman

If I can scape the pennies and the time together I was going to start doing a complimentary style and was going to have a look at Juijitsu.
 The class I will attend simply advertises as Juijitsu, how many styles are there and are there any to avoid?


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## MisterMike

I would first look for ones that spell it right - J*u* Jutsu -  :whip: 


I'm of the notion that Ju Jutsu is a great compliment to any striking or throwing art.


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## arnisador

There are many styles...though some say, there is just _one_ jujutsu!

For me, obvious choiced would be Small Circle Jujutsu and of course BJJ, but there are lots of good ones.


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## Schtankybampo

And if I had ANY idea of what I was taking, I would answer you. I am currently taking Mushin Ryu Jujitsu, but it SAYS Danzan Ryu Jujitsu on the door. LOL. Honestly, I'm one of those incomplete and horrible people who take a martial art, love it, adore it, and don't really delve too much into the history. Ask GreyPhoenix. He's better at this than I am.  Basically what I know is...there was a guy, and he studied some stuff, and then went on to found Aikido. 

Ok, I'm playing dumb blonde just a little...


"Danzan-Ryu" literally means "sandlewood mountain system". The "Danzan" part of this term is used by Japanese persons to describe the Hawaiian Islands because of the aromatic sandlewood trees that grow on the Hawaiian slopes. The term in Chinese is "Tan Shan" and was used by Wo Chung, who was one of Okazaki's instructors. The Japanese word, "Ryu" literally means "stream" but can also mean a school of thought. Many Japanese martial arts schools use this term. Some notable examples are: Daito-Ryu, Tenshin Shinyo-Ryu and Kito-Ryu. It is a fair assumption that the Japanese Okazaki used the name Danzan-Ryu to name his ryuha, "system".

 The American Mushin Ryu Jujitsu system was born out of the need for a system that stressed the art of self-defense, incorporating techniques with a foundation of speed, power and usefulness as well as sound fighting strategy. The techniques are simple yet effective. The system employs ground fighting methods, escapes from various holds, choking and strangulation, barring and joint locking techniques, vital point attacks and defenses, combination techniques, weapon defenses and more. This art is challenging and offers a great way to stay in shape as well as effective self-defense. 

There are a number of websites devoted to just this information: (which you will quickly note that I copied from) 

http://www.suigetsukan.org/jujitsu.htm
http://www.danzan.com/


~m~


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## Simon Ford-Powell

MisterMike said:
			
		

> I would first look for ones that spell it right - J*u* Jutsu - :whip:
> 
> 
> I'm of the notion that Ju Jutsu is a great compliment to any striking or throwing art.


well, Ju Jutsu is the now accepted romanisation of the japanese kanji, however, in the 1900s it was not standardised. My style is spelt Jiu Jitsu, because that is the way it was spelt back in the early days in the Uk


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## Syed

Here is my understanding of these two arts and other arts (Jujutsu and Aikido). Like Funakoshi said that &#8220;there are no styles in karate&#8221;. That means back in those days they used to train on all kind of techniques, i.e. stand-up, ground, locking, chocking etc. it&#8217;s the pupil of those masters chose some of the techniques that they were good at and named their own styles. I know people call me crazy but just look at the history.  Here is an example, Wado-Ryu, what is that style? Its nothing but a mixture of Jujutsu and Shotokan.  There was a time when the master call their art nothing but &#8220;Jujutsu&#8221;, regardless what kind of techniques they preferred to practice. Like Judo definitely came from Jujutsu but we don&#8217;t call it Jujutsu anymore. Now we can find several version of judo, none of them looks like original Kodokan version Judo.  In west whatever the MMA fighter call Brazilian Jujutsu is nothing but Judo techniques that means their history end up in ancient Jujutsu (all the throwing, wrestling, locking, chocking) but they call it *Brazilian* Jujutsu, which doesn&#8217;t make any sense to me (the naming). Technically we can call Judo since the we can&#8217;t dig the history before O sensei&#8217;s time (thanks to the masters who never kept any record or dairy of their training method or history), O sensei called his style Aikido, and his philosophy is same as original Jujutsu philosophy (I think), not to use your own power on your opponent, use your opponent&#8217;s power and speed to redirect to them.  Dr. Kano&#8217;s Kodokan Version Judo had the same philosophy which has changed now and nowjudokas are using their body weight, power and all kind of things which is exactly same as what MMA fighters do, so technically what MMA fighters Jujutsu is actually Judo.  Look at Shotokan style, there are two major organizations (JKA version and Shotokai version) train the same art in two different ways (thank God that they still call their style Shotokan). The point I&#8217;m trying to make is no art is superior to others because they all have same basics they all have the spiritual side but we are losing all these concept and get busy to make points which one is superior, what&#8217;s the name of the art&#8230;
Please forgive me if you can&#8217;t buy my theory, Its just my idea and that&#8217;s how I see it and I have respect for all kind of arts but I have no respect for those who train little and talk more.


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## Mack

I agree with Syed's post. I have trained in many different styles over the years. I have trained with Bujinkan groups that did alot of groundwork and others that didn't do any. The same with Aikido. Also I have trained with Judo folks who did some stand up other than just throws. I think it depends on the instructor's background. Alot of instructors at least now, do not just train in one style, so, they teach a little of this and a little of that but call one main style. I don't think it's fair to try and compare different arts because they all have different reasons why they train the way they do. As long as you can find a dojo or training group that is training in something that you enjoy I think you will be fine, after all martial arts should be fun and something you look forward to doing. Just my thoughts.


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## Aikironin

Patrick Skerry said:


> It depends on what style of Jiu-jitsu you study. Please don't study Brazillian Jiu Jitsu for self-defense 'cause you'll only get your *** kicked.
> 
> Aiki-do was developed from Aiki-jitsu just as Ju-do was developed from Jiu-jitsu. The 'do' ending is a dead giveaway that it has been watered down to be more humane; the practice of traditional pre-1868 Aiki-jitsu is equivalent to the instruction of homocide.
> 
> Any half-way decent self-defense style will always include weapons practice. In Japan, modern Jiu-jitsu incorporates the use of an automatic pistol, along with some still useful traditional weapons (like a knife).
> 
> Aiki-do is still primarily a self-defense style but lacks the physical realism of Judo, and Judo doesn't get into self-defense until several years of study. It takes a long, long time to become good at either Judo or Aikido, so its best to start young (like before 10 years old).


 
What in God's name are you talking about?? Traditional Pre-1868 Aiki-Jutsu is equivalent to the instruction of homocide?

That training in BJJ for Self Defense will only get your *** kicked...but Aikido which you admit lacks the physical realism of Judo, you won't get your *** kicked?  

Aikido is not a primarily Self Defense style, as most "do" forms are not traditionally Self Defense styles.  Go back and read some D.Draeger on Do vs Jutsu for a starting point on that tidbit.

In addition you can start young in both Judo and Aikido, but in both those styles kansetsu waza is omitted at that age, for fear of damaging growth plates.  13 is the age that Kodakan will start teaching those techniques.


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## K-man

Gray Phoenix said:


> Here is my take on these to Arts.
> Jujitsu is very combat oriented. Should a fight flow through to its ultimate conclusion, Jujitsu's aim is to immobilize the attacker. This may come from a throw, joint lock, barring technique, choke/strangle or from any number of strikes, but the intent is still to end the fight with no rules, so holds barred, and the potential death and or permanent injury to the attacker.
> 
> Aikido is a very spiritual art. The true Aikidoka will seek to avoid the fight and create an atmosphere of peace to prevent the fight form ever having to take place. Should the fight flow through to the ultimate conclusion, Aikido's aim is to end the fight with no injury being inflicted. This may come from a throw, joint lock, barring technique or any number of strikes, but the ultimate intent is to avoid injury to the attacker.
> 
> _*Aikido is Jujitsu under a different philosophy. Should a Jujitsu Master meet an Aikido Master no fight would take place. Both would seek a peaceful means of resolution.*_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> However, should a conflict be unavoidable, I think the real difference is that the Jujitsuka would not care about the health of the attacker until the fight was finished in one form or the other, as opposed to the Aikidoka who would try to prevent such injury during the battle. :asian:





> Jujitsu is very combat oriented. Should a fight flow through to its ultimate conclusion, Jujitsu's aim is to immobilize the attacker. This may come from a throw, joint lock, barring technique, choke/strangle or from any number of strikes, but the intent is still to end the fight with no rules, so holds barred, and the potential death and or permanent injury to the attacker.


Same same. Admittedly my aikido is to supplement my karate but your sentiment is the same as mine, with the proviso that I would not be looking at the scenario of permanent injury or death unless there was no alternative. In the situation of multiple attackers, the first guy down will not be getting back up in a hurry!


> Aikido is a very spiritual art. The true Aikidoka will seek to avoid the fight and create an atmosphere of peace to prevent the fight form ever having to take place. Should the fight flow through to the ultimate conclusion, Aikido's aim is to end the fight with no injury being inflicted. This may come from a throw, joint lock, barring technique or any number of strikes, but the ultimate intent is to avoid injury to the attacker.


 True to some degree. If there is a fight, I have no sympathy for the attacker. If there is injury, so be it. We train strikes and joint breaks in aikido. I have a badly injured elbow at the moment thanks to my overly exuberant sensei last Friday!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If I am unfortunate enough to be involved in a fight, my opponent's health and well being will be far, far from my mind. That is not to say that I would use more force than necessary.
My 2c on the original discussion. Probably in most situations, from my limited training in Aikido (and even less Jujutsu) I would lean to the Jujutsu, unless the Aikido school actually teaches the atemi and joint breaks. In fairness, many of the locks can progress to the break if required. As a supplement to karate, either is great.

(And, to Patrick Skerry, you were right about starting young .. I was just 59 when I started the Aikido!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




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