# Falls



## BuddhaGirl (Feb 24, 2006)

Last night at my 6th class I took part in a thing they do were everyone lines up and in pairs they do each of the requirements for the yellow belt. I only know the first one (Flashing Swords) so I had to do that one over and over during the evening, which was cool cause it helped me remember it. In watching the others do some of these moves, I saw a lot of people getting flung to the floor. I asked the fellow in front of me if we are taught how to fall at some point and he said no, you just fall.

So now I am concerned about falling. There is another lady in the class and she is nice and what I would call "thick" (not fat..just muscular) and when she was flung down she seemed to tough it out. I on the other hand having recently lost a lot of weight am a bit boney (I am working on building muscle, but it is a slow process). So my fear is the first time I am flung I am gonna crack something..a rib, a tailbone or worse.

My questions I guess is, is it common to be "taught" how to fall before one is thrown down, or is this something I am gonna have to figure out on my own?

Thanks..

Kerry


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## MJS (Feb 24, 2006)

Hi Kerry,

Most schools go over the basics of falling prior to the student actually being taken to the ground.  This is very important IMO, because if the student lands incorrectly, they could get injured.  

Its certainly nothing too complex, but nonetheless, it is an important area to cover.  This is not only important to know for class times, but for outside of class as well.  If you live in an area that gets snow/ice, knowing how to fall just may help you out.  

Mike


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## tshadowchaser (Feb 24, 2006)

You might want to approch a black blt or the school instructor and ask if they teach break falls befo throwing you to the ground. It helps to know how to fall.


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## Carol (Feb 24, 2006)

You should be taught how to fall.  Forward falls, side falls, backwards falls...all are specific techniques.

What I just ran in to is trying to be the attacker on two techniques (Tripping Arrow, Falling Falcon) is that I was falling before I really had a grip on doing a side fall from a standing position.  I'm not a strong person, but I am agile and limber.  Even so, I fell wrong and gave myself one helluva sore neck.

If you don't feel comfortable doing something in class...don't.  Or at least...ask for more help.


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## shesulsa (Feb 25, 2006)

Wow. 

Yes, you should absolutely learn how to fall safely or at least as safely as possible.  If your instructor doesn't have any particular technique to different types of falling such as lady_kaur points out in her post, RUN - don't walk - to a Judo school and have them teach you how to fall correctly.

I really can't emphasize enough how important breakfalling is. You'll also find it quite useful if you are like me and do something stupid and fall off your bike ... or trip over some rebar (at night) your husband left in the backyard but forgot to tell you about.  My daughter recently took a header at school, tucked and rolled and came out standing and walking as though nothing happened.

The point is that falling will help you in the throes of normal life as well as the throws in the dojo.

Have a nice trip! (sorry - couldn't resist)


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## Doc (Feb 25, 2006)

It should be considered irresponsible to fail to teach a student the rudiments of falling, especially if techniques are practiced that requires it, regardless of style or philosophy.


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## BuddhaGirl (Feb 25, 2006)

Thanks for the replies everyone. I thought that falls were something I would be taught. But when I asked this fellow classmate and he said no...it kind of gave me a bit of a scare. Of course I guess I really need to ask the teacher and see.

The fellow I asked is this older man in the class. He is a yellow belt and I was paired up with him to practice some of the techniques I was taught recently. I kind of feel like this guy had something to prove because he was being a bit rough with me. The teacher said I should go through the moves slowly and with little force, but this guy was slapping the crap out of my arms and going faster and faster. I would stop because as he went faster I would lose my place. And he just kinda looked at me and said (in a kind of sarcastic tone) "any time your ready". After about 15 minutes of this I wanted to slug the guy. He kept grabbing my arm (forcefully) and pointing my fist at his nose and saying "Aim for my nose..aim for my nose". I came close to saying, "buddy..if I wanted to hit your nose, you would be on the floor calling for your mommy, so back off".

I was all bruised up on my arms the next day from his slapping me so hard. Luckily this guy is leaving the class next week due to relocating, so I won't have to deal with him anymore.


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## michaeledward (Feb 25, 2006)

It is unfortunate that your training partner is pushing you in this manner. 

There is a legitimate concern that when we practice we are aware of what our targets should be.

There is a legitimate concern that when we practice, we use appropriate force.

However, these are not usually concerns for beginners during their fourth, fifth or sixth lesson. At this stage in your training, we should be focused on the basics used in the technique. 

I would address this with the schools' head instructor and make certain to not work with Mr. Bruiser until such time as you are ready.

Kenpo is a contact activity. 
The School Colors are Black and Blue. 
But you should be allowed to proceed at your own pace.


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## tshadowchaser (Feb 25, 2006)

I agree with michaeledward and all the others on this matter.
However being the type of person I am If I worked with that same yellow belt again and he had the same attitude I would AIM FOR HIS NOSE , your a beginner and we all know they have no technique or ability to stop the punch befor it lands on target (LOL)


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## shesulsa (Feb 25, 2006)

tshadowchaser said:
			
		

> I would AIM FOR HIS NOSE



:hammer::hammer::wink:


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## Brian Jones (Feb 25, 2006)

If you are learning Flashing Swords, then you must be an AKKI School.  Don't worry you will be taught how to fall safely.  The AKKI includes ground work in its curriculum, so you have to know how to fall.  Good luck,
Brian Jones


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## rutherford (Feb 25, 2006)

But is it a good AKKI school??


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## Doc (Feb 25, 2006)

BuddhaGirl said:
			
		

> Thanks for the replies everyone. I thought that falls were something I would be taught. But when I asked this fellow classmate and he said no...it kind of gave me a bit of a scare. Of course I guess I really need to ask the teacher and see.
> 
> The fellow I asked is this older man in the class. He is a yellow belt and I was paired up with him to practice some of the techniques I was taught recently. I kind of feel like this guy had something to prove because he was being a bit rough with me. The teacher said I should go through the moves slowly and with little force, but this guy was slapping the crap out of my arms and going faster and faster. I would stop because as he went faster I would lose my place. And he just kinda looked at me and said (in a kind of sarcastic tone) "any time your ready". After about 15 minutes of this I wanted to slug the guy. He kept grabbing my arm (forcefully) and pointing my fist at his nose and saying "Aim for my nose..aim for my nose". I came close to saying, "buddy..if I wanted to hit your nose, you would be on the floor calling for your mommy, so back off".
> 
> I was all bruised up on my arms the next day from his slapping me so hard. Luckily this guy is leaving the class next week due to relocating, so I won't have to deal with him anymore.


Your aggressive training partner is not your problem, it is instruction. Not only should a very new student be closely monitored, but from my perspective you should not be physically interacting with anyone other than a teacher. You appear to be working on techniques, but have not been taught how to fall or stand, block, strike, or kick. At least not with any degree of proficiency relative to the amount of time you have been there to be working on technique.

Your 'older' man that you've ben paired with appears to be insulted because he's 'stuck with a girl,' and he wants to turn his testosterone loose so he can get in touch with his manhood. Remember he's a beginner too and probably has been driven there because of a physical experience and/or personal issues. This is a bad pairing.

For my money, (actually yours) the experiences you related do not bode well for a well run school interested in your safety and progress. Just because something is in the curriculum is not indicative it is being taught, taught correctly, or taught at the appropriate time.

I would address all my concerns with the head instructor, and if I didn't get 'common sense' answers, I'd bail. You know really hard stuff like, "Shouldn't I be taught to fall BEFORE someone throws me?" Or "Shouldn't I be taught the basics contained in the techniques BEFORE I'm expected to use them with another person?"

WARNING: To raise alarm could get you labeled, (God forbid) "A girl" and generate some resentment from staff and other students as well who will feel you're "slowing them down" like "mr. toughguy."

Remember it's your butt, and you have decisions to make with regard to what you want and are willing to accept. Welcome to the world of 'commercial' martial arts training. Go back and read Gavin Debecker's book, "The Gift Of fear" and don't stay or leave for the wrong reasons.


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## hongkongfooey (Feb 25, 2006)

BuddhaGirl said:
			
		

> Thanks for the replies everyone. I thought that falls were something I would be taught. But when I asked this fellow classmate and he said no...it kind of gave me a bit of a scare. Of course I guess I really need to ask the teacher and see.
> 
> The fellow I asked is this older man in the class. He is a yellow belt and I was paired up with him to practice some of the techniques I was taught recently. I kind of feel like this guy had something to prove because he was being a bit rough with me. The teacher said I should go through the moves slowly and with little force, but this guy was slapping the crap out of my arms and going faster and faster. I would stop because as he went faster I would lose my place. And he just kinda looked at me and said (in a kind of sarcastic tone) "any time your ready". After about 15 minutes of this I wanted to slug the guy. He kept grabbing my arm (forcefully) and pointing my fist at his nose and saying "Aim for my nose..aim for my nose". I came close to saying, "buddy..if I wanted to hit your nose, you would be on the floor calling for your mommy, so back off".
> 
> I was all bruised up on my arms the next day from his slapping me so hard. Luckily this guy is leaving the class next week due to relocating, so I won't have to deal with him anymore.


 
BuddahGirl, 

Were you working a parry drill?


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## BuddhaGirl (Feb 26, 2006)

Yes, the move I was doing was some sort of drill. I had to do a inward downward block, an inward upward block, a push the arm away kind of thing and then I punch. Is that a parry block?

I think the problem is that the class has about 15-18 people in it, most are purple belt and above, one yellow belt and two of us white belts. I generally do the warm up with the class and then the instructor has the upper folks do there sets and what not and then he shows me (and the other new guy when he is there) a few new moves each time and has us practice on each other. Last time I asked him if I will be shown all the basic moves first or if I will learn them as part of drills and such. And he said I will learn them as parts of drills and all. So I have been taught a couple of kicks (forward snap, roundhouse), some blocks (inward, outward, downward etc) and a couple of punches, and now I have learned the drill I was doing, the beginning of a Kata and the last class he had me hitting a bag and then hitting my shoulder. He said this was to develop speed. I think he called it a timing drill?!

We were one instuctor short this last class so I think he had his hands full keeping everyone busy.


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## Brother John (Feb 26, 2006)

michaeledward said:
			
		

> It is unfortunate that your training partner is pushing you in this manner.
> 
> There is a legitimate concern that when we practice we are aware of what our targets should be.
> 
> ...


Michael's words bear repeating!!

#1: ask Mr. Smith to show you all about falling. I fully expect that that lesson was forthcoming anyway, but if it's a special concern for you... just ask. I'm sure he'd be ready and willing to teach this to you.

#2: That other person, the rough guy... sounds like he's got an VERY important lesson to learn too... HOW to be a good peer in class. It's my philosophy that we should ALL work together for mutual benefit. If he was trying to impress you, that's Wrong. IF he was trying to impress himself, that's wrong and sad. IF he was trying to scare you, that neeeeeeds to be adressed with the instructor (Mr. Smith). On this last one though, I'd reserve that judgement until you know FOR CERTAIN, maybe still giving him the benefit of the doubt.
ALSO: Please remember, we all (as peers in one class) have two responsibilities:
       A: To not go harder than our partner is willing to go themselves.
       B: To prompty and politely let our partner know what "Too hard" is for us!!
So: Communicate right away AND respond conscientiously and respectfully with what They tell you.

I look forward to hearing more about your journey!!

Your Brother
John


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## hongkongfooey (Feb 26, 2006)

BuddhaGirl said:
			
		

> Yes, the move I was doing was some sort of drill. I had to do a inward downward block, an inward upward block, a push the arm away kind of thing and then I punch. Is that a parry block?
> 
> I think the problem is that the class has about 15-18 people in it, most are purple belt and above, one yellow belt and two of us white belts. I generally do the warm up with the class and then the instructor has the upper folks do there sets and what not and then he shows me (and the other new guy when he is there) a few new moves each time and has us practice on each other. Last time I asked him if I will be shown all the basic moves first or if I will learn them as part of drills and such. And he said I will learn them as parts of drills and all. So I have been taught a couple of kicks (forward snap, roundhouse), some blocks (inward, outward, downward etc) and a couple of punches, and now I have learned the drill I was doing, the beginning of a Kata and the last class he had me hitting a bag and then hitting my shoulder. He said this was to develop speed. I think he called it a timing drill?!
> 
> We were one instuctor short this last class so I think he had his hands full keeping everyone busy.


 

BuddahGirl,
The parry drill I was thinking of is similar, but different. The differences being that an inward parry is delivered with an outward parry, pinning check, punch.

In my opinion, they are trying to show you too much too soon. A good grasp of basics should be the first priority, before timing and speed drills are introduced


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## MJS (Feb 27, 2006)

BuddhaGirl said:
			
		

> Thanks for the replies everyone. I thought that falls were something I would be taught. But when I asked this fellow classmate and he said no...it kind of gave me a bit of a scare. Of course I guess I really need to ask the teacher and see.
> 
> The fellow I asked is this older man in the class. He is a yellow belt and I was paired up with him to practice some of the techniques I was taught recently. I kind of feel like this guy had something to prove because he was being a bit rough with me. The teacher said I should go through the moves slowly and with little force, but this guy was slapping the crap out of my arms and going faster and faster. I would stop because as he went faster I would lose my place. And he just kinda looked at me and said (in a kind of sarcastic tone) "any time your ready". After about 15 minutes of this I wanted to slug the guy. He kept grabbing my arm (forcefully) and pointing my fist at his nose and saying "Aim for my nose..aim for my nose". I came close to saying, "buddy..if I wanted to hit your nose, you would be on the floor calling for your mommy, so back off".
> 
> I was all bruised up on my arms the next day from his slapping me so hard. Luckily this guy is leaving the class next week due to relocating, so I won't have to deal with him anymore.


 
As others have already said, this is probably not the person that you should have been paired up with.  I would always make a point of pairing up new students with someone who was a little more experienced, but I would still always keep a close eye on what was going on.  

IMHO, training should be a learning experience.  Its not productive for someone who is paired up with another student, to take advantage, so to speak, of that person, by being overly rough, intimidating or abusive.  

People tend to forget, when they find themselves getting frustrated with a new student, that they themselves were new, so they should have a little patience.  This person you were working with is new himself, so IMO, he has no room to talk about anything you're doing.

If you're feeling uncomfortable about anything during your time training there, I would suggest talking to the head instructor about it.  

Good luck in your training and keep up the hard work! 

Mike


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## IWishToLearn (Feb 27, 2006)

Doc said:
			
		

> It should be considered irresponsible to fail to teach a student the rudiments of falling, especially if techniques are practiced that requires it, regardless of style or philosophy.



Dam. There goes exactly what I was going to say, yet again ;-).


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## MJS (Mar 2, 2006)

How is the training going Kerry??


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## Kenpobuff (Mar 3, 2006)

My instructor hasn't taught proper falling techniques to the class that I can remember.  So last weekend when he asked me to open the school doors and run the class I took that opportunity to run the class away from the traditional routine we go through.  So I rolled out a wrestling mat and showed them the proper falling techniques as I was taught from a different instructor.  I had them practice until they were fairly proficient at it.  Those that attended that class I think got some good information, those that chose not to come because he wouldn't be there missed out.

Teach or learn proper falling technique, it's important.  If your instructor doesn't teach it ask him/her to teach you or seek it from another source.  It may just save you some bruised elbows or head lumps.


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## KenpoDusty (Mar 3, 2006)

Buddhagirl,

 Make sure you practice at your own pace. I wouldnt worry too much about speed right now, you should be more focused on getting your basics down cold. As you practice your blocks, kicks, parries, etc., you will see that speed will come naturally. Grandmaster Parker had a saying, "Practice does not make perfect, practice makes PERMANENT, only perfect practice makes perfect!!" The only one you are competing with when you learn Kenpo is yourself. 

Keep smiling!
Dusty


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