# Is He Ready To Attack?



## Pwen Arye (Jun 4, 2014)

This is interesting


I received an email from submissions 101 talking about signs that a person is ready to attack. It was written by a police officer and RBSD instructor Darren Lauer.

*assault not imminent but possible*


Head, neck and shoulders go back (person making themself bigger)
Face is red, twitching and jerking
Lips pushed forward, baring teeth (like in dog attacks)
Breathing is fast and shallow (oxygenating the body, preparing for fight or flight, hyper-vigilance0
Beads of sweat appearing on face and neck
thousand mile glare
exaggerated movements
finger pointing/head pecking
Totally ignores you
Gives you excessive attention during normal conversation, such as direct, uninterrupted eye contact
Goes From totally un-cooperative to cooperative (people do not go from hot to cold, they de-escalate over time)
drunk or high
Direct anger towards other inanimate items such as tables chairs and walls

*Assault Is Imminent*



Face goes from red to white (blood will leave the surface of the body tand pool to the big muscles and internal organs of the body needed for survival)
Lips tighten over teeth
breathing is fast and deep
Change of stance , their body blades and shoulders drop
hands closed into a fist
Bobing up and down or back and forth (trying to hide the movement of the initial attack
Target glance (looking to see where he is going to hit, or where to run)
Putting head and shin down (body want to protect airway)
Stops all movements and freezes in place
Dropping center or lowering body (like an animal going to pounce)
Shedding of clothing
One syllable replies (go from full sentences to one syllable replies - reptilian brain is clicking in)


----------



## Touch Of Death (Jun 4, 2014)

Pwen Arye said:


> This is interesting
> 
> 
> I received an email from submissions 101 talking about signs that a person is ready to attack. It was written by a police officer and RBSD instructor Darren Lauer.
> ...


You forgot clapping. Many times people are in the habit of clapping their hands together, just once, before undertaking a battle plan.


----------



## tshadowchaser (Jun 4, 2014)

Many of the above signs would be normal for the average person getting ready to attack but are they the bodily responses that a person that gets into many fights exhibit?


----------



## Touch Of Death (Jun 4, 2014)

Oh and what about that little dance?


----------



## Pwen Arye (Jun 4, 2014)

Touch Of Death said:


> You forgot clapping. Many times people are in the habit of clapping their hands together, just once, before undertaking a battle plan.



Lol alot of women tend to do that when in a confrontation, along with asking a friend to hold their purse or taking off their ear rings.


----------



## Pwen Arye (Jun 4, 2014)

Touch Of Death said:


> Oh and what about that little dance?



You mean crip walking or the electric slide?


----------



## Pwen Arye (Jun 4, 2014)

tshadowchaser said:


> Many of the above signs would be normal for the average person getting ready to attack but are they the bodily responses that a person that gets into many fights exhibit?



I kinda think that to some degree experienced street brawlers do some of the things above on a subconcious level. Personally when a person acts aggressive I don't conciously look for those things, it's just my spidey sense starts tingling and just feeling the negative vibe is enough for me to immediately remove myself from the situation.


----------



## Touch Of Death (Jun 4, 2014)

Pwen Arye said:


> Lol alot of women tend to do that when in a confrontation, along with asking a friend to hold their purse or taking off their ear rings.


Speaking of women, a man may run up to you with a gun and pull the trigger, but if you see a woman holding a gun on you and walking backwards, you gonna die.


----------



## ballen0351 (Jun 4, 2014)

Hmm I usually know an attack is coming when I see a fist coming toward my face in a hurry


----------



## Touch Of Death (Jun 4, 2014)

ballen0351 said:


> Hmm I usually know an attack is coming when I see a fist coming toward my face in a hurry


Then they started the punch too far away.


----------



## Tony Dismukes (Jun 4, 2014)

I have a suspicion the original list may be derived from something written by Rory Miller. I've seen a similar breakdown in some of his writing, with very similar phrasing.


----------



## jks9199 (Jun 4, 2014)

Tony Dismukes said:


> I have a suspicion the original list may be derived from something written by Rory Miller. I've seen a similar breakdown in some of his writing, with very similar phrasing.



There are several similar lists around, from different sources.

The "signals" are largely signs of adrenal arousal.  Several of the first list are also signs of a Monkey Dance, with it's particular blend of hormonal arousal.  The second list is largely external indicators of massive adrenal arousal.

As to whether experienced fighters do them...  Yes, and no.  They're often better camouflaged, but still present.  Most dangerous is the guy who you see go into adrenal arousal, then settle down.  That means he knows how to ride it and use it... and that means he's serious trouble. 

I do disagree with the comment about deescalating too quickly.  Especially if it's still in the Monkey Dance -- it can be a signal that the subject is about to blow and trying to lull you, or it can be a sign that they just recognized that they're facing a MUCH bigger Monkey and they aren't going to win.  Look for it to go beyond simple agreement to actual submission.  They'll go from being "big, red, and loud" to small, quiet, and the red'll fade back to normal.  And the change can be quick; seconds.


----------



## jks9199 (Jun 4, 2014)

ballen0351 said:


> Hmm I usually know an attack is coming when I see a fist coming toward my face in a hurry



Then open your eyes sooner, and see the situation develop before the punch flies...

(And I know you know this...)


----------



## ballen0351 (Jun 4, 2014)

jks9199 said:


> Then open your eyes sooner, and see the situation develop before the punch flies...
> 
> (And I know you know this...)


Naa it was a joke since in my opinion that list means nothing.  I've seen all the signs and no attack and no signs and an attack.  Depending on level and type of intoxication or mental state.


----------



## donald1 (Jun 4, 2014)

ballen0351 said:


> Hmm I usually know an attack is coming when I see a fist coming toward my face in a hurry



That's the weird part I could hardly understand,  there's so many effective striking places some even more effective than the face but none the less that's the place frequently attacked first


----------



## drop bear (Jun 5, 2014)

Tony Dismukes said:


> I have a suspicion the original list may be derived from something written by Rory Miller. I've seen a similar breakdown in some of his writing, with very similar phrasing.



And honestly all kind of a non event.

Basically when the guy is frothing spitting hate at you he might be about to attack you.

Well thanks Capitan obvious.


----------



## Touch Of Death (Jun 5, 2014)

ballen0351 said:


> Naa it was a joke since in my opinion that list means nothing.  I've seen all the signs and no attack and no signs and an attack.  Depending on level and type of intoxication or mental state.


True!!! Rather than looking for clues, we could just make a simple effort to stay out of peoples kill zones, just as a courtesy to ourselves.


----------



## Brian R. VanCise (Jun 5, 2014)

Here is a great video by one of our members Tgace regarding subconscious signals that people send before initiating violence.


----------



## Crossracer (Jun 8, 2014)

I'm not a LEO, I did arrest people in loss prevention over a three year period. With over a 1000 arrests I did see some things that seemed true. 
    Drunks where far and away the worst for fights. It got so we led with our nose, if I smelled alcohol, I gave a bit more distance. Drunks almost always thought they where being sneaky. Key words there, "they thought".

   I had a few occasions that when I stopped a person you could really see them go thru the fight/flight feelings. I just kind of washed over their face. 
    A lot depends on the situation the potential confrontation was taking place in. Most the time my fights where more trying to just get away. Only the drunks wanted a stand up brawl. 

       I try to follow a different path and deesclate as much as possible. The only way my training can hurt you is if you get within arms reach.  Until then you and I are perfectly safe. 

   Bill


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Tgace (Jun 8, 2014)

Brian R. VanCise said:


> Here is a great video by one of our members Tgace regarding subconscious signals that people send before initiating violence.



Some writing to go with the vid...

http://tdatraining.blogspot.com/2008/12/threat-indicators-and-personal-safety.html

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2


----------



## donald1 (Jun 8, 2014)

Do people who attempt a fight always give off these hints?


----------



## ballen0351 (Jun 8, 2014)

donald1 said:


> Do people who attempt a fight always give off these hints?



No and just because people show some clues also doesn't mean they will attack


----------



## ballen0351 (Jun 8, 2014)

Depending on the area another big one I see is for people with saggy pants they pull them up off their butts to move better, and they start to almost stretch there arms.  They are either about to fight or run


----------



## ballen0351 (Jun 8, 2014)

yawning also seems to be popular too


----------



## wimwag (Jun 8, 2014)

ballen0351 said:


> Depending on the area another big one I see is for people saggy pants they pull them up off their butts to move better, and they start to almost stretch there arms.  They are either about to fight or run



Just went to Six Flags in Chicago and watched a cop take an idiot down by stepping on his pants and pushing him.  He was dancing and bouncing around trying to get himself ready to fight and it was over just like that lol


----------



## jks9199 (Jun 8, 2014)

donald1 said:


> Do people who attempt a fight always give off these hints?





ballen0351 said:


> No and just because people show some clues also doesn't mean they will attack



As ballen said -- they're not automatic guarantees of attack.  They're indicators of levels and types of adrenalization.  They're a clue as to the type of violence you may experience soon, as well -- but the presence of these signals doesn't mean the guy is about to hit you, only that he is in a physical/emotional state where he might.

And, don't read too much into it, either.  Ballen in another post mentions pulling up saggy pants and swinging arms to loosen up.  I'll agree with both -- but the guy could also just be pulling his pants up because they're too low, or swinging his arms because they're feeling stiff.


----------



## Big Don (Jun 8, 2014)

ballen0351 said:


> Hmm I usually know an attack is coming when I see a fist coming toward my face in a hurry





My first thought in response to the question, "Is he ready to attack?" was, "If you don't know, you're getting smacked"


----------



## Big Don (Jun 8, 2014)

wimwag said:


> Just went to Six Flags in Chicago and watched a cop take an idiot down by stepping on his pants and pushing him.  He was dancing and bouncing around trying to get himself ready to fight and it was over just like that lol



Does Six Flags attract scum there too? I thought it was just Six Flags Magic Mountain...


----------



## ballen0351 (Jun 8, 2014)

Big Don said:


> Does Six Flags attract scum there too? I thought it was just Six Flags Magic Mountain...


nope sounds like our 6 flags too


----------



## wimwag (Jun 8, 2014)

ballen0351 said:


> nope sounds like our 6 flags too



you should see Valley Fair


----------



## wimwag (Jun 8, 2014)

Big Don said:


> Does Six Flags attract scum there too? I thought it was just Six Flags Magic Mountain...




Well its Chicago so...lol


----------



## Tgace (Jun 8, 2014)

donald1 said:


> Do people who attempt a fight always give off these hints?



No. This stuff...like anything else, is just another piece of a puzzle. Reality is hardly ever an IF/THEN flow chart. You have to look at the sum total of any situation, and you have to look for clusters of behavior. Any singular indicator could be due to any type of reason.

Sent from my SCH-I405 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## drop bear (Jun 8, 2014)

You also need to look at their group. See what positions they are taking. And I will do the same if you are going to get dragged.

I have had mates off duty bait guys so they can beat them up. Or they just hang out and give no warning at all just to see what will happen. I had six islanders that I worked with one say the other guy should fight me and they will back him up just so they could bash him.

A hand in a pocket or down low in to the body is a big one for me. If they are angry or doing the fight thing I will just jump them if I see that. Normally there is a weapon somewhere.


If you are stupid enough to cook a confrontation. Then the mobile phone can be a concern gang members will ring other gang members for suport. Suddenly you will get 20 celicas drive up with about 50 weaponed up guys coming out of them.

And dont ever have meetings with people in back carparks.


----------

