# Brazilian Jiu Jitsu vs. Russian Sambo



## Patrick Skerry

I'm very curious to find out if there has been any BJJ vs. Sambo tournaments and what were their outcomes?

Upon examination, it appears to me that BJJ has more in common with Sambo than either one has with Judo, thereby making a merger of BJJ + Sambo more plausible than with Judo.  So are there any results from matches between BJJ enthusiasts and Sambo practitioners?


----------



## RMACKD

There has been a few matches in vale tudo. Fedor (Sambo) vs Nog (BJJ) Wiiner Fedor, Sperry(BJJ) vs Zinoev (Sambo) winner Zinoev, some sambo guy also beat Nog. The San Frasisco BJJ Open was won by a sambo player as well as a Montreal BJJ tourney. There has been other bjj tournaments won by sambo players as well. BJJ players have not done well in sambo. The best being the Machado's who have extensive sambo training and competed at a low level. There are also some similarities between sambo and bjj. Sambo has strikes, weapon defense, multiple attacker strategies, leglocks and takedowns that bjj is lacking.


----------



## gusano

Sambo and Judo place a heavy emaphasis on throws. This is evident in both having a rule whereby you can win the match by executing a "perfect throw".

Sambo matches allow the fight to continue on the ground whereas Judo players are restarted in standing position after 30 seconds? (maybe 1 minute?) Sambo also allows many leg locks that are not permitted in BJJ tournaments.

BJJ players look to finish the fight on the ground and cannot win by "perfect throw". The rules of each sport dictate the strengths and weaknesses of each.

To answer the original question.....BJJ vs. Sambo, I think the rules would determine your favorite. Sambo matches would favor Sambo players and BJJ rules would favor BJJ players.


----------



## RMACKD

Both arts have strengths. Having trained in both I believe the groundfighting is even, the main difference is that sambo players prefer the top position and they use the guard differently than bjj players because of the leg lock threat. Sambo's perfect throw rule is a bit different in Judo's. It is a lot harder to get a perfect throw in sambo because you have to get them off the ground, onto their backs and you have to stay standing as well. So more fights go to the ground. Sambo does have a lot of things bjj lacks like strikes, takedowns weapon defense, multiple attacker defense and few other things and is a good supplement to any art. I think sambo will bring good things to bjj. If more samb people enter bjj tournaments and use there takedowns to get a dominant position and win it will force bjj to adapt and learn more about the top game and takedowns. Just like the sambo people entered judo tournaments and used low point scoring takedowns and then used beat the judoka with groundfighting(the judo world focused little on groundfighting) It helped the judo people who then went off to get better ground skills. Although the process is still going today.


----------



## gusano

RMACKD said:
			
		

> it will force bjj to adapt and learn more about the top game and takedowns.


BJJ is lacking in the takedown department when compared to sambo, wrestling, or judo. The reason being IMO is because in a BJJ match, both players are so willing to go to the ground and fight that there is no real struggle to get there.
I supplement my BJJ by training wrestling for takedowns without the gi, and judo for takedowns with the gi.
To say that BJJ needs to learn more about the top game is absurd. There are distinct differences in style between BJJ schools but I can tell you that Carlson Gracie jiu-jitsu prefers the top game, with an aggressive constant attacking pressure to finish the fight by submission.


----------



## RMACKD

gusano said:
			
		

> BJJ is lacking in the takedown department when compared to sambo, wrestling, or judo. The reason being IMO is because in a BJJ match, both players are so willing to go to the ground and fight that there is no real struggle to get there.
> I supplement my BJJ by training wrestling for takedowns without the gi, and judo for takedowns with the gi.
> To say that BJJ needs to learn more about the top game is absurd. There are distinct differences in style between BJJ schools but I can tell you that Carlson Gracie jiu-jitsu prefers the top game, with an aggressive constant attacking pressure to finish the fight by submission.


The magority of the BJJ world seems to prefer the guard. But I know it doesn't apply to all Carlson Gracie does seem to prefer the top position and agressive submission which is probaly why his students seem to do the best at valetudo. I think a BJJ person should be good at takedowns because it goes along with the positional strategy that bjj and many other grappling arts have which is to obtain a dominant position. Sometimes a good takedown can help you get to the side of your opponent without having to pass the guard.


----------



## gusano

iI agree, it is DEFINATELY a huge advantage to have good takedown skills which enable you to have a dominant position once on the ground. It is best to *start* in a good position whenever possible.


----------



## Shogun

Another thing about judo, is that you can win by pin. If one Judoka holds the other down until escape seems impossible, then they are awarded a pinfall. BJJ would do good in this department, as the positions contain a great deal of control.

still though..... Some of the best grapplers have used Shuai Jiao. I think this art would improve BJJ, Judo, and Sambo.


----------



## Patrick Skerry

Shogun said:
			
		

> Another thing about judo, is that you can win by pin. If one Judoka holds the other down until escape seems impossible, then they are awarded a pinfall. BJJ would do good in this department, as the positions contain a great deal of control.
> 
> still though..... Some of the best grapplers have used Shuai Jiao. I think this art would improve BJJ, Judo, and Sambo.


The hold-downs in Judo are called Osae-Komi Waza, and they are considered a humane way of subduing an opponent, which is why Dr. Jigoro Kano included them in his transfer of 'jitsu' into 'do'.  In a shiai, you hold down your opponent for 25 seconds in a proper Judo 'hold-down' technique , you win.  Unlike wrestling, you only have to hold down one of the opponents shoulders in Judo rather than two (plus you have arm-bars and chokes to use also).

Judo also contains leg-locks and muscle compression techniques (plus kicking and punching) but has relegated these to her kata, and for safety reasons, are not allowed in free-practice or contest.

I am not familiar with Shuai Jiao, since Judo is a fairly complete system, how would Shuai Jiao improve either Judo, BJJ or Sambo?


----------



## eric

As far as current methods of BJJ training go many practitioners cross-train a considerable amount. I train at a BJJ school but 2 of the 4 classes per week are no-gi. We use freestyle and greco roman takedowns for gi- and no gi and also a bit of judo here and there to at least set up a wrestling takedown. Because we cross train we are more vulnerable to a BJJ player who is gi specific in his or her training. There are alot of tricks and holds that are gi only and those can throw you off is you are unaware or not used to them in training or competition. But this makes us strong all around. We take a couple things here and there that work best for us and train them till we got em down....still working on this part. and so forth and so on.....


----------



## Aaron Little

Perhaps there was a time when BJJ schools in the US dealt specifically with the ground. There are probably still some schools that teach that way. Those schools are few and far between however. Even those schools ran by high ranking BJJ Black Belts incorporate aspects of Striking and Wrestling into their over all curriculums.


----------



## RMACKD

Even with the few schools that incorperate wrestling and striking they still do not get a very high level on it. They typically include the wrestling and striing in a different program also. But should we be counting a person crosstraining in this argument? If that was included in these style vs style arguments than no you could say Shotokan mcdojo whatever is a great style because a majority of them are now doing thai boxing and bjj.


----------



## Shogun

Agreed. Judo is a fairly complete MA. But adding the techniques, Ideas, and concepts to from one MA to another makes it that much better. Shuai Jiao is Chinese wrestling which originated around 900 BC in southern China. It is characterized by its very fast throws. In Shuai Jiao, the practitioner looks to throw or slam as hard as possible to the ground. A practitioner is trying to cripple his/her opponent. www.mattfurey.com has some info on it. He is the first and only american to win the Shuai Jiao world championships in Beijing.


----------



## Patrick Skerry

Shogun said:
			
		

> Agreed. Judo is a fairly complete MA. But adding the techniques, Ideas, and concepts to from one MA to another makes it that much better. Shuai Jiao is Chinese wrestling which originated around 900 BC in southern China. It is characterized by its very fast throws. In Shuai Jiao, the practitioner looks to throw or slam as hard as possible to the ground. A practitioner is trying to cripple his/her opponent. www.mattfurey.com has some info on it. He is the first and only american to win the Shuai Jiao world championships in Beijing.



Is Shuai Jiao_Shuai Jiao_  'Chinese Fast Wrestling'?


----------

