# Falun Gong Health Effect Survey



## Dao (Jan 2, 2009)

"To determine the health effect of Falun Gong, we conducted a survey among  some Falun Gong practitioner in five districts in Beijing, with 12,731 valid  questionnaires. Our results show that Falun Gongs disease healing rate is 99.1% with  a cure rate of 58.5%; Improvement rate is 80.3% in physical health and 96.5% in mental  health. The survey indicates that Falun Gong has a significant effect in disease healing  and health promotion. Falun Gong is an excellent Qi-gong that benefits people both  physically and mentally. "

source:

http://www.clearwisdom.net/eng/science_eng/survey98_1eng.htm


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## Empty Hands (Jan 6, 2009)

********.  You can't ask practicioners if what they practice works, of course they think it works!  It's almost insulting that we are expected to take this seriously.


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## Xue Sheng (Jan 7, 2009)

Dao

Are you a member of Falun Gong?

If not you must realize anything that is said by Falun Gong is not to be trusted, they are a cult.

If you are a member....well.... I will stop there.


But a word of advice to all, unless you want to be put in the books by Falun Gong as a member it is best to avoid any of their functions. If you go join one of their Qigong classed you will be listed as a member. If you are invited to any of their functions be it an art show, health show or any other function as a presenter or teacher and you go they will put you down as a member.


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## CrushingFist (Feb 27, 2009)

Whats wrong about Falun Gong (Falun Dafa) as I don't know nothing about it.


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## JadecloudAlchemist (Feb 27, 2009)

> Whats wrong about Falun Gong (Falun Dafa) as I don't know nothing about it.


 As Xue said.

I read one of their books and I think it said the master will come and heal you from an astral plane or something.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/falungong1.htm

Some information about Falun gong and its view of homosexuality among other things.


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## CrushingFist (Feb 27, 2009)

Thanks for the info. 

Has anyone from this board ever practiced this ?


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## Xue Sheng (Feb 27, 2009)

CrushingFist said:


> Whats wrong about Falun Gong (Falun Dafa) as I don't know nothing about it.


 
I was checking an old post of mine on this and I think I got it a little mixed up. There were 2 incidents 

The Fulan Gong founder combined some Buddhism and Taoism and made this little doll he told his followers it was God. They then approached the Chinese government and told then that they wanted Falun Gong to be recognized as the true and only religion in China.

The basic Government response was, what are you nuts...go away...


They then went and started handing out flyers in Tiananmen Square, which since the Tiananmen Square issues the Chinese Government is really touchy about ANYTHING in Tiananmen Square and every single Chinese person in Beijing knows one of the quickest ways to get yourself arrested is to go start something in Tiananmen Square. But back to the story, since the Chinese Govt did not want a repeat of the early Tiananmen Square incident they arrested all of the Falun Gong that were there. But after the arrest they did not want to hold them so they contacted the families of these people to come ad get them. The majority of the families responded with they left us a long time ago to go with Falun Gong and we have not heard from them since, we don't want em you keep em.

The Police released them after that 

Then the founder had his followers block one of the major streets into Tiananmen Square, which caused a major back up and pretty much shut down Beijing. At that point the decided to go arrest the leader since he was the root of all the trouble, but they couldn't find him anywhere, it seems he had already fled the country with all the money his followers gave him. He flew STRAIGHT to America and plead Religious persecution by the horrible Chinese government. The US bought it hook line and sinker.

There is also a free Falun Gong paper that, my wife gets it because it is..well&#8230; free and some of the news is true, but it is full of false stories of things like a million people protest in NYC....I think that would have made the news here if that happened. And it lists how many people have quit the Chinese communist party and I think per Falun Gong and the numbers they are posting there are no Chinese communists left.

Also see post #3.

Basically they are a cult


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## CrushingFist (Feb 27, 2009)

Wow dont know what to say but I did remember receiving a flyer in the street years ago.


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## Dao (Mar 2, 2009)

That's a total lie.  There is no doll we worship.  Tiananmen Square incident was because Falun Gong were being arrested.  All they wanted was to be freely able to practice Falun Gong.

There is no doll worship.  Really this sounds silly.

Also the Chinese government is harvesting organs.  There's actual proof.  


If you look at this video it's a start






It's not just Falun Gong, even Christians are not allowed to practice in China.  All religions are closely monitored.

You can spread lies but the truth will always come out sooner or later.


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## Xue Sheng (Mar 3, 2009)

Dao said:


> That's a total lie. There is no doll we worship. Tiananmen Square incident was because Falun Gong were being arrested. All they wanted was to be freely able to practice Falun Gong.
> 
> There is no doll worship. Really this sounds silly.
> 
> ...


 
AHHH So you are a member then 

I know people that lived in Beijing at the time this was occurring so I tend to believe them first and they are well educated Beijingren that lived rather near Tiananmen Square and are not (believe it or not) members of the communist party.

And now tell me what does Chinese government harvesting organs have to do with this post and Fulan Gong? 

Dao believe what you will and since you are likely a member of Fulan Gong you will believe the Fulan Gong propaganda over anything else. Don't believe they are into propaganda, get the Chinese paper they give away for free and read it or get it translated and then compare it to real live news form the US and BBC.

There are multiple religions in China that practice that the Chinese government does not give a damn about, Christians being one of them. You want to go worship and not get in their face they don't care. However be you Christian, Buddhist, Taoist or Hindu you go and jump into Tiananmen Square or block a street you will be arrested and if you continue to be annoying to them (right or wrong) you are in for a world of hurt. 

There is a Taoist temple in the middle of Beijing and Buddhist temples all around and I there are people openly practicing their religion in the parks and no one cares. Mount a protest or go into place like Tiananmen Square you are asking to be noticed.

China is not the US and it is not as free and it likely won't be anytime soon but every single Chinese person knows exactly what NOT to do and where and when NOT to do it to NOT get arrested. Fulan Gong is also VERY aware of this and uses it and its members to its advantage putting its own members in harms way to get a story. Fulan Gong is a cult that is all.

So back to your post...you didn't like the doll bits so how about the rest of the story.

And you might want to think about wht you said when you said "You can spread lies but the truth will always come out sooner or later" because Fulan Gong is very good a spreading lies.


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## Dao (Mar 3, 2009)

I don't see any proof about your claims.  Without proof it's nothing.  

Have a nice evening!


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## Dao (Mar 3, 2009)

Dao said:


> They said strict censorship may "sow the seeds of disaster" for China's political transition.
> Among the signatories are an ex-aide to Mao Zedong, a former newspaper editor and a former party propaganda chief.
> "History demonstrates that only a totalitarian system needs news censorship, out of the delusion that it can keep the public locked in ignorance," the group said in the letter, according to Reuters news agency.
> Have a nice evening!



Source: 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4712134.stm


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## grydth (Mar 3, 2009)

Dao said:


> "To determine the health effect of Falun Gong, we conducted a survey among  some Falun Gong practitioner in five districts in Beijing, with 12,731 valid  questionnaires. Our results show that Falun Gongs disease healing rate is 99.1% with  a cure rate of 58.5%; Improvement rate is 80.3% in physical health and 96.5% in mental  health. The survey indicates that Falun Gong has a significant effect in disease healing  and health promotion. Falun Gong is an excellent Qi-gong that benefits people both  physically and mentally. "
> 
> source:
> 
> http://www.clearwisdom.net/eng/science_eng/survey98_1eng.htm



If indeed you are trying to present this as a valid scientific study by modern Western standards, you should be gang gonged. 

Do you have any idea how many people in the West have been turned off to the Chinese arts by such absurd claims as are made in this "study"?


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## Blindside (Mar 3, 2009)

grydth said:


> If indeed you are trying to present this as a valid scientific study by modern Western standards, you should be gang gonged.
> 
> Do you have any idea how many people in the West have been turned off to the Chinese arts by such absurd claims as are made in this "study"?



You are going to have to explain, in relatively small words, the terms "placebo effect," "observer bias," and "experimenter's bias", and how a double blind study works.  Good luck with that.


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## Xue Sheng (Mar 4, 2009)

Dao said:


> I don't see any proof about your claims. Without proof it's nothing.
> 
> Have a nice evening!


 
Same could be said for just about every single Fulan Gong claim. And much of the proof to refute many Fulan Gong claims are in the very paper Fulan Gong produces in Chinese. Translate it and compare it to any reputable news source


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## Xue Sheng (Mar 4, 2009)

Dao said:


> Source:
> 
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4712134.stm


 
Dao, you ever been to China? 

And I think I touched on this freedom thing when talking the USA as compared to China in a previous post in this vary thread

None of this by the way supports anything you or anyone else says about Fulan Gong. It is however a tactic practice by many Fulan Gong people to throw up smoke screens and distract one from the topic and avoid answering questions about Fualn Gong and of course facing the reality of the situation.

Next of course will be the calling me a liar...oh wait you already did that. So next will be screaming that I either work for or am sent by the Chinese government to undermine Fulan Gong. 

Dao, it&#8217;s been fun but one can't argue with a member of a cult and Fulan Gong is a cult and you are a member.

Have a nice day


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## Dao (Mar 4, 2009)

Thanks you're actually helping me.  Someone is already interested in the practice.  I asked for even one proof about your claims but you can't.  Why would I scream about someone who is helping me?  

Have a nice evening and thank you!


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## Tez3 (Mar 5, 2009)

Dao said:


> Thanks you're actually helping me. Someone is already interested in the practice. I asked for even one proof about your claims but you can't. Why would I scream about someone who is helping me?
> 
> Have a nice evening and thank you!


 
So what is Fulan Gong?


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## Xue Sheng (Mar 6, 2009)

Tez3 said:


> So what is Fulan Gong?


 
A cult


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## Xue Sheng (Mar 6, 2009)

Dao said:


> Thanks you're actually helping me. Someone is already interested in the practice. I asked for even one proof about your claims but you can't. Why would I scream about someone who is helping me?
> 
> Have a nice evening and thank you!


 
Ahh but you have not convinced me, and I cannot control what others think or do, should they choose to join a cult that is there business and if you call someone pointing out that fulan gong is a cult helping then expect loads of help from me.

As to proof I could ask the same of you and I have asked others of Fulan gong for proof as well about of any number of claims that fulan gong has made, particularly in their paper which you seem to be avoiding talking about. And generally the response is to point to things not associated with anything that Fulan Gong does or has said to throw one off the trail. I also have mentioned a few things and you have used the same tactic in order to avoid the actual truth about Fulan Gong.

Bottom-line is Fulan Gong is a cult that is all and you are a member of said cult and therefore will not believe anything anyone else says no matter what proof is presented. As I said you can't argue with a member of a cult.

And as I asked you before, and as you chose to not answer.

Dao, have you ever been to China? And if you choose to answer that, ever been to Beijing?


*To all others* if you train with or sign up to go to any Fulan Gong function you will find yourself listed as a member of fulan gong whether or not you want to be listed as such. But then your choice is just that your choice. There are other much more reputable and much better sources of Qigong training out there that have nothing to do with Fulan Gong and will give you much better training and not get you listed on the Fulan Gong books as a member without your knowledge.

Fulan Gong is a cult folks, you want to join a cult with or without your knowledge that is you choice

*Edit*

Oh and as to proof, I told you I know people that were in Beijing (that I trust much more than anyone from Fulan Gong) at the time this went on but I doubt they will post here and talk to you since they tend to not associate with Fulan Gong at all do to their feeling it is not a good thing and&#8230;well&#8230; a cult and really do not want to be listed as a member without thier consent. So they will not go to any Fulan Gong meeting to tell you what they know since they have no desire to be associated with Fulan Gong. Besides you know as well as I do (or maybe you don&#8217;t, but the founder of Fulan Gong does) eyewitnesses could show up with pictures, films and recordings and a few signed and notarized affidavits and you would still say there is no proof or the old line they were sent by the Chinese government to undermine and discredit Fulan Gong.
 
I must admit it is a pretty good strategy on the part of Fulan Gong however. Ask for proof and the only ones that have it, should they meet with you, show it to you, or discuss it with you get listed as members of something they do not want to be associated with in the first place so they stay away. Besides many Beijingren just think Fulan Gong is, to put it nicely, silly and they tend to ignore it. 

Oh and Dao... Have a nice evening and thank you!


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## Dao (Mar 9, 2009)

&#65279;Listed as a member? They don't even have my name, I never gave out my name, my legal name not my english name I use. They don't have either so that there you are wrong. I don't train Falun Gong I practice it. It is not a sport or some kind of physical exercise.

    Never been to &#65279;China.  But doesn't mean much.  I mean why bother reading the paper then?  If you read the paper and because you don't live there it isn't true? So if I read a Chinese newspapers and I live in another city whatever I read from somewhere is not true?  I guess the holocost didn't happen?  Since I wasn't there it can't be true?  Funny logic.

    I am not avoiding anything I am asking proof and your claims.  

    &#65279;Tiananmen Square incident was because Falun Gong practioners were arrested or practicing Falun Gong.  They went there to ask for release of Falun gong practioners, nothing more.  Now you provide proof to your claims please.






http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJBnHMpHGRY&feature=related

Now why are they shoot at non Falun Gong people?  Nobody even had any weapons.  


Here's a video the truth about the CCP.  Oh wait videos is fake? lol


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## Dao (Mar 9, 2009)

> In previous decades, PRC propaganda was crucial to the formation and promotion of the cult of personality centered around Chairman Mao Zedong. It also served as a useful tool for mobilizing popular participation in national campaigns such as the 1958 Great Leap Forward and the 1966-76 Cultural Revolution. Following the death of Mao in 1976, propaganda was used to blacken the character of the notorious Gang of Four, which was seen as responsible for the excesses of the Cultural Revolution. Past propaganda also encouraged the Chinese people to emulate selfless model workers and soldiers such as the famous Comrade Lei Feng, suicidal Chinese Civil War hero Dong Cunrui, self-sacrificing Korean War hero Yang Gensi, and Dr. Norman Bethune, a Canadian doctor who assisted the Communist Eighth Route Army during the Second Sino-Japanese War. It also praised Third World revolutionaries and close foreign allies such as Albania and North Korea while vilifying both the United States "imperialists" and the Soviet "revisionists" (the latter of whom was seen as having betrayed Marxism-Leninism). One of the most famous propagandist who went sidetracked was Zhang Zhixin. Her loyalty to the party as well as opposition to the ultra-left, singled her out to severe punishment. But her story provide a good example of how propaganda are delivered.





source:



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda_in_the_People's_Republic_of_China






Wow a history of propaganda!  







http://www.flickr.com/photos/32912172@N00/3223912286/


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## Xue Sheng (Mar 9, 2009)

Alrighty then since you continue to throw out subterfuge lets break this down



Dao said:


> &#65279;Listed as a member? They don't even have my name, I never gave out my name, my legal name not my english name I use. They don't have either so that there you are wrong. I don't train Falun Gong I practice it. It is not a sport or some kind of physical exercise.


 
okie dokie then what is it, I say it s a cult what do you call it?

As to the whole name issue, please reread what I wrote because you apparently missed something. I did say you were a member of Fulan Gong however the name issue has to do with Fulan Gong functions where they either invite people by name to attend or ask someone to sign up for. It is then you become a member without your knowledge or permission, especially if you are Chinese living in the USA. 



Dao said:


> &#65279;Never been to &#65279;China. But doesn't mean much. I mean why bother reading the paper then? If you read the paper and because you don't live there it isn't true? So if I read a Chinese newspapers and I live in another city whatever I read from somewhere is not true? I guess the holocost didn't happen? Since I wasn't there it can't be true? Funny logic.


 
Yes it is rather funny logic since your answer does not address anything I said or asked other than the "been to China" bits. And never being in China likely does mean you don't know much about it. Ever studied it beyong Fulan Gong Propaganda?

Reading the paper, the paper I am referring to is a paper put out by Fulan Gong in Chinese and it is full of propaganda and lies. Reading the Chinese news paper has nothing to do with it. And as a point of interest the news that you get in the west is not all exactly true about China and some of it is propaganda as well. But then all the news you get about the west in China is not all true and some of it is propaganda as well.

And in true Fulan Gong fashion you threw in something that has absolutely nothing to do with anything I previously said in an attempt to redirect things. Please explain to me in how the holocaust has anything to do with any of this? And by the way did you know something similar to what the Nazis did during WW 2 was also perpetrated by the Japanese on the Chinese during WW 2, that fact to has little or nothing to do with this discussion.



Dao said:


> &#65279;
> I am not avoiding anything I am asking proof and your claims.
> 
> &#65279;Tiananmen Square incident was because Falun Gong practioners were arrested or practicing Falun Gong. They went there to ask for release of Falun gong practioners, nothing more. Now you provide proof to your claims please.


 
Dao there is no proof I could supply to you that you would accept you are a member of Fulan Gong. And I never said that Fulan Gong members were not arrested in Tiananmen square for practicing Fulan Gong. And it rather nice of you to provide the reason why in your clip, which I will address next. But as a note the clip you provided and the events that occured in 1989 had absolutly nothing to do with Fulan Gong, Fulan Gong was not there.

As I said before, every single Chinese person, in Beijing, including any and all Fulan Gong members, knows the absolute quickest way to get arrested in Beijing is to do anything in Tiananmen square due to what happened in 1989. But again you attempting to throw out an incident that had absolutely nothing to do with Fulan Gong to throw off the real issue here that Fulan Gong is a cult.



Dao said:


> &#65279;
> 
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJBnHMpHGRY&feature=related
> ...


 
To this clip Dao, it is not a fake my wife lived very near Tiananmen square when this occurred and some of the doctors form her hospital were shot while on assignment there to assist with any one that was sick or injured. This I take very seriously and to be honest throwing out the &#8220;holocaust&#8221; as part of your post is pretty vial an approach as well. These are not things to be taken lightly or forgotten or paraded out by some cult as proof of how badly it was treated in China when in fact said cult (or at least it&#8217;s founder) knew and knows exactly what the Chinese government response if to Fulan Gong and why it responds as it does. Fulan gong was NOT in Tiananmen when students were being killed and Fulan Gong was NOT in the Nazi death camps. It went to the middle of the city of Beijing and started to practice &#8220;Fulan Gong&#8221; stuff and got arrested they also blocked a MAJOR street into the center of a city and got themselves arrested again, if you have a brain and live in Beijing you KNOW this is not a smart thing to do and you WILL get arrested. If Fulan Gong went to Tiantan Park or any other number of parks in Beijing no one would have cared but they chose Tiananmen because it was the quickest way possible to get the governments attention and the quickest way possible for the Fulan Gong cult founder to get his butt to the USA so he could scream religious persecution and the US bought it hook line and sinker.

However like many things that come out of Beijing to the West we do not have the whole story. Tiananmen square went on much longer than we were told, it shut down the city and there were people, likely not students, not government, and not military that was causing more harm that good prior to this with their actions some of which hurt people on both sides that most certainly did not help matters. But this is no justification for what happened it may have gone different if it were today when Hu Jintao is in charge but it was Deng Xiaoping and he was one of Mao&#8217;s people, at least before Mao had him attested and thrown in Jail.

Dao China is not the West and just about every Chinese person I know is very good at knowing how far they can push things and when to push them and not get in any trouble or arrested. They also know how to get arrested should they choose and they choose not to. They are not living in fear of their government and in many cases think we here in the west are pretty silly. There are an awful lot of people living happily in China and Beijing these days with absolutely no desire to move anywhere and they could if they wanted to. However they all pretty much avoid things Fulan Gong because they think they are all crazy and the majority of Chinese both in and out of China know Fulan Gong is to be avoided. The difference is that in China you will get in trouble and will get a visit from the police. Out of China Fulan Gong will list you as a member and the Chinese government does watch Fulan Gong and if they find out you are a member, even if you don&#8217;t know about it, likely they will not grant you a visa to go to China.

However in China go to a Buddhist temple or Taoist temple and tell everyone you meet you are a Taoist or Buddhist, go to parks and have group mediations and the government does not care. Go around telling everyone you are Catholic or Protestant and again the government does not care. However go to Tiananmen in a group and stop and try a prayer meeting or hand out flyers or tell people how great your religion is you will get noticed and the government will care and depending on how much of a spectacle or nuisances of yourself you make will generally tell you what that government response will be. And Dao, do you know how close Tiananmen square is to the government? Just to give you an idea go march on Pennsylvania avenue and see how close you are to the US government.


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## Dao (Mar 9, 2009)

> I did say you were a member of Fulan Gong however the name issue has to do with Fulan Gong functions where they either invite people by name to attend or ask someone to sign up for.


Oh now you change it.  Especially if I were Chinese?  How do you know if I am not Chinese?  How do you know if I'm not even Asian?   I don't ask people to sign up.  In fact people are freely to practice Falun Gong in their homes privately.  In China you can not practice even in your own home.  If the police find out they will come to your home trying to arrest you.  So it doesn't matter where in China in practice, outside in the parks, in your home privately or anywhere.  Daoist and Buddhist make a small number compared to Falun Gong.  Falun Gong grew quickly that's why the government wants it gone.  

Yes I do take this seriously but I find it funny you can not back up one thing you have said.  Not one single proof.  All you're doing is attacking Falun Gong.  I haven't give out my name and trust me they wouldn't know if I am Chinese or not.  Falun Gong has no membership that's why we don't know the exact numbers of people practicing.  

Oh btw this just a survey I posted not a study for scientific research, just a plain old study.  

Ok until you can support your claims I am not going to bother responding to you.  You're just making statements without any proof whatsoever.


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## JadecloudAlchemist (Mar 9, 2009)

The first 2 set numbers to me look like standard Zhan Zhuang mediation or holding the ball. Except his arms look locked,really high and wide.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAucff_STQ0&feature=related



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsjA3ptlpec&feature=related

Set number 3 dealing with cosmic energy. Though in classic Qigong and Alchemy texts we do find gathering Qi from the stars and all that however that type of Qigong practice should be placed in a religious manner.
When speaking of "cosmic energy" now a days without the religious tone we find new age pesudo Qigong teachers

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpu_GBkea2Q&feature=related

Set number 4 deals with a Heavenly circuit.
Goes up the Yin channels of the arms and legs and down the Yang channels of the arms and legs. The Yin is suppose to go down and the Yang goes up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPkxMyyPmeY&feature=related

I see the common Qigong exercise known as proping hands to heaven you find in the eight pieces of brocade.
I find a type of Wave hands like cloud as done in Taiji.
I do not see any Buddhist mudras except for the Dhyani mudra.
Here are mudras:




 
IMO Falun gong practice looks like a throw of Qigong exercises that are very elementary without explaining any theory of it. Instead presenting it as some sort of mystical thing. When you present Qigong as a mystical thing it borders on religion and in some cases a cult like pseudo Qigong organization.


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## MJS (Mar 9, 2009)

_ATTENTION ALL USERS:_

Please, keep the conversation polite and respectful.

Mike Slosek
-MT Asst Admin-


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## Xue Sheng (Mar 9, 2009)

Dao said:


> Oh now you change it. Especially if I were Chinese? How do you know if I am not Chinese? How do you know if I'm not even Asian? I don't ask people to sign up. In fact people are freely to practice Falun Gong in their homes privately. In China you can not practice even in your own home. If the police find out they will come to your home trying to arrest you. So it doesn't matter where in China in practice, outside in the parks, in your home privately or anywhere.


 
Well Dao if you read what I said I did not change anything (its called additional information) I just added the especially if you are Chinese part for emphasis. And I do not know if you are Asian or not and frankly I don&#8217;t care you are a cult member and defending said cult. I just said "especially if you are Chinese" If you are not Chinese and go to a function you will end up on the books as well but it won't matter as much since being denied a visa to China if you are a westerner is annoying, being denied a visa if your family live there and you can't see them is a lot worse 

As to the police coming to your home if you are Fulan Gong in China TODAY (emphasis on today), Damn right they will. However my point in the last post that you appeared to miss is that IF Fulan Gong did there stuff in any other park in Beijing and did not go to Tiananmen square or block a major road into Beijing before this there would be no issue. Again you are not responding to what I write but taking things out of context and using them to support your argument

As to this bit 



Dao said:


> Daoist and Buddhist make a small number compared to Falun Gong. Falun Gong grew quickly that's why the government wants it gone.


 
That&#8217;s just plain wrong, rather silly and if you think about it a bit funny but typical of Fulan Gong Propaganda Fulan Gong is a rather small group in China and as I said not taken to seriously by most Chinese but they do tend to avoid them due to their tendency to bring the government down on themselves. If you read the Fulan Gong paper (or one of their scientific studies) you will also find that there is virtually no one left in the Communist party, they all pretty much resigned accept for a few high government officials, that to is an outright lie from Fulan Gong but lying never seemed to bother Fulan Gong all that much. Did you know there were over 1 million people in a protest in NYC to support Fulan Gong? Their paper wrote all about it&#8230; however it appears that absolutely no news agency in the US picked up on that at all, I found this rather strange since one would think there would be some mention somewhere of over 1 million people converging on NYC for a rally to protest China in support of Fulan Gong, I mean not even the NY Post picked it up, that seems a bit odd to me. But since you are getting these statistics form Fulan Gong about their numbers in China supported by their study it too must be just about as reputable as their paper. 

I have been in China Dao and I did not see one Falun Gong member of any police or military people kicking in anyone&#8217;s doors or wrestling to the ground anywhere and if what you are saying is true then the place must be a veritable war zone of Fulan Gong persecution. 

But I truth I believe the largest Buddhist population in the world is in China and it is around 106,000,000 people but there are likely considerably more that practice and that does not include the other large religions in China that are Taoist, Muslim and Christian who are all, individually, larger than Fulan Gong. Oh and Dao that is not changing anything that is adding more info  Want proof do the research on your own from reputable sources not Fulan Gong. I&#8217;m betting the Vatican would be a much better source for this information about China actually. It would certainly be more trustworthy. Oh and just to clear up the whole religion and China thing the government is officially Atheist. 



Dao said:


> Yes I do take this seriously but I find it funny you can not back up one thing you have said. Not one single proof. All you're doing is attacking Falun Gong. I haven't give out my name and trust me they wouldn't know if I am Chinese or not. Falun Gong has no membership that's why we don't know the exact numbers of people practicing.


 
I doubt you take any of that seriously beyond how it relates to Fulan Gong. But Dao be specific, what do you want proof for and more to the point what would you accept as proof. Unassociated stories such as you have supplied or possible made up scientific research as you supplied in the beginning (more on that next). Because so far all of your proof is either unassociated or from Fulan Gong itself. 
.


Dao said:


> Oh btw this just a survey I posted not a study for scientific research, just a plain old study.
> 
> Ok until you can support your claims I am not going to bother responding to you. You're just making statements without any proof whatsoever.


 
You mean the survey (this plain old study) you posted that comes from this link. Sorry Dao but Clear Wisdom IS Fulan Gong and hardly a reputable source of information about Fulan Gong

So I am to accept a &#8220;scientific&#8221; study about Fulan gong&#8230;.from Fulan Gong&#8230;.. some how that does not work for me. Anymore than a used car salesman telling me it&#8217;s a great car because he drove it. Fulan Gong is quite adept at lies and propaganda and producing copious studies, pamphlets and pages in a paper to support themselves, of course it is mostly made up but then that shouldn&#8217;t matter right .Sorry not scientific not a plain old study just more propaganda form Fulan Gong. It does look rather impressive with all of its graphs and charts though, want me to make up one that is prettier with bogus numbers to prove something no problem. If you like I will make up one that proves up is down and down is up. Dao do REAL research don&#8217;t depend on the cult to supply real info to its members

Jim Jones told his followers a lot of things they believed too. Cults are masters of this they produce copious amounts of bogus data to prove their point to their members but outside of that group it is just plain garbage


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## Dao (Mar 10, 2009)

http://www.clearwisdom.net/emh/article_images/2002-2-25-pitt-resolutioni.jpg http://www.clearwisdom.net/emh/article_images/2002-2-7-njsenate.jpg http://www.clearwisdom.net/emh/article_images/2002-2-3-pa_upperdarby.jpg http://www.clearwisdom.net/emh/article_images/2002-1-25-dafa-week.jpg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda_in_the_People's_Republic_of_China http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2003/7/3/134334.shtml http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7824255.stm


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## Xue Sheng (Mar 10, 2009)

Dao

Post all you want and all the certificates you can find and all the info about Chinese Propaganda, I do believe that I did mention in a posting this thread that there is such a thing, but the fact remains that Fulan Gong, Fulan Dafa, Clear Wisdom are all the same and a cult and the so called &#8220;scientific&#8221;  research they fabricate is worthless

You are a member of said cult therefore you believe everything they tell you and arguing with you is a waste of time. 

And you still have not answered any of my questions beyond the have you been to China part to which the answer was no. You did not address virtually any of the things I said in my last post and you proceeded to post things that again prove nothing and do not address the issue. You continue to pile garbage on top of garbage. Not a single mention of your so called scientific study that is most certainly not scientific, your claims of the massive numbers of Fulan Gong Practitioners (that don't exist) you talked about in China which I told you was just plain wrong just more unassociated drivel that is about Fulan Gong but not about any of the issues in this post. 

The fact remains Fulan Gong is a conglomerate of Taoism, Buddhism and a smattering of Qigong that they claimed as their own and then called itself a religion. It then attempted to force itself down the throat of the Chinese government and get itself declared the national religion (which is atheist by its own admission) and there is not a person in China or on the planet that would not suspect that attempting to "FORCE" A religion (or anything) on the Chinese government was going to end very badly. If they all just went off and did their Fulan Gong thing in any other park in Beijing and NOT got in the governments face they would still be there happily doing their thing just like the majority of the religions that currently exist in China. 

But regardless of all that it is and forever will be a cult.

I will have no more of this silliness, your cult or you.


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## Dao (Mar 10, 2009)

http://www.falundafa.org/book/eng/zfl_new.html


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## Xue Sheng (Mar 10, 2009)

Dao said:


> http://www.falundafa.org/book/eng/zfl_new.html


 
Thank you for helping me prove my point.

Have a nice day


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## Dao (Mar 10, 2009)

> In suppressing the Falun Dafa, the Chinese government has adopted much of the terminology of the Western anti-cult movement. The official  Xinhua News Agency issued a report on "cults" in the United States. 4 It quoted Berkley psychology professor Margaret Singer, who was one of the few psychologists who supported the claims of the anti-cult movement until her death in 2003. The report discusses "spiritual poisoning." Cults are said to "not obey the law, they upset social order, and they create a menace to freedom of religion and social stability. Under the pretense of religion, kindness, and being non-political, they participate in political activities. Some of them even practice criminal activities such as tax evasion, fraud, drug dealing, smuggling, assassination, and kidnapping."  The Chinese government has described the Falun Dafa as a dangerous "cult." Some of their claims sound quite improbable: bullet	The group brainwashes its members. bullet	Members, called practitioners, worship Mr. Li. bullet	They had turned Communist officials into cult members in order to learn state secrets.  bullet	They suggest that their followers should not take any medication. bullet	Some members have become paranoid, suffered from hallucination, committed suicide, or killed relatives and friends. The government has only been able to find a handful of such cases from among the tens of millions of practitioners in the country.   The government appears to regard the Falun Dafa as the most serious threat to the government since the 1989 student pro-democracy uprising. The government has historical reasons for their fear. China has had a history of religious and spiritual uprisings that had catastrophic effects on the country. "In the late 1770s, the White Lotus rebellion against the Qing dynasty was led by Wang Lun, a master of martial arts and herbal medicine." 5 Perhaps the most serious was the Taiping rebellion of 1845-1864 which was led by a leader who viewed himself as the Son of God. Some 20 million died in that revolt. 5


 http://www.religioustolerance.org/falungong3.htm


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## Xue Sheng (Mar 10, 2009)

Dao said:


> http://www.religioustolerance.org/falungong3.htm


 
 Thank you for helping me prove my point.

Have a nice day


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## Xue Sheng (Mar 10, 2009)

Hey Dao

Could you do me a favor and link this as my response to everything else you post here, I getting tired of this and I dont feel like responding to you anymore


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## JadecloudAlchemist (Mar 10, 2009)

Dao if you are going to use the site religioustolerance.com
Make sure you express this: http://www.religioustolerance.org/falungong1.htm




> Li Hongzhi said that: "_...interracial children are the spawn of the 'Dharma Ending Period,' a Buddhist phrase that refers to an era of moral degeneration. In an interview last year, he said each race has its own paradise, and he later told followers in Australia that, 'The yellow people, the white people, and the black people have corresponding races in heaven.' As a result, he said, interracial children have no place in heaven without his intervention_."


 
And


> The body's vital energy, Qi, can be focused to improve one's health and sense of well being. But it can also "_be used to develop the ability to fly, to move objects by telekinesis, and to heal diseases._"


 
And


> _he says he installs telekinetically in the abdomens of all his followers, where it rotates in alternating directions, throwing off bad karma and gathering qi. Many Falun Gong adherents say they can feel the wheel turning in their bellies._"


 
And 


> A person with qigong training can walk through solid objects, like a wall.


 
And 


> The latter could tear down a large building using mental power only.


 


> qigong master can see "_dozens of levels of dimensions_."


 


> *A lot of people have done many bad deeds. Things such as organized crime, homosexuality, and promiscuous sex, etc., none are the standards of being human*


 

I have said ealier in my pose the 5 Qigong exercises are elementary at best and some things are incorrectly done.
 The E-book presented in this thread spoke mostly about fake Qigong writers(alot of good ones better than the E-book in the thread and more detailed in Qigong)
The book IMO is a hosh posh of Qigong that it jumps from point to point it does not go in detail about Qigong theory,history, or anything really.
If you enjoy Falun Gong more power to you good luck with it.


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## Dao (Mar 10, 2009)

Christians believes homosexuality is a sin also.  So they a cult also?


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## JadecloudAlchemist (Mar 10, 2009)

Some would say Christianity was a cult when it began.

Also saying someone else does it does not excuse the fact of the topic at hand.

Don't use David Copperfield(Who I have met by the way he signs his name with a pentagram star) David Copperfield is an illusionist are you saying Falun gong is an illusion ala fake?


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## Dao (Mar 10, 2009)

> The first figure to appear is the Bodhisattva Medicine King, who had vowed to heal the sicknesses of humankind. This bodhisattva's dedication and self-sacrifice in a former life are described in order to show him as a virtuous model of veneration of the Buddha and his Law. In his former life the Medicine King had been a bodhisattva named Loveliness--one that all creatures rejoiced to look upon--and in serving the then Tathagata Sun Moon Brilliance, he had heard the truth of the Law-Flower Sutra and in twelve thousand years of ardent practice had reached a high state. By mysterious powers he had caused the heavens to rain flowers and incense as an offering of veneration, an expression of devotion and gratitude for Sun Moon Brilliance's teaching the Law-Flower Sutra. He wished, however, to make yet a greater offering with his body, and so after drinking fragrant oils and anointing his body, he set fire to himself and burned. He burned for twelve hundred years, and the light of his burning illuminated the world.


 http://www.rk-world.org/ftp/gtls028.html   So Buddhism is a cult also?


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## Tez3 (Mar 10, 2009)

Wheels in the stomach? it's bad enough having indigestion!

I do like a good cult, keeps me amused for ages, more absurd the better.


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## Dao (Mar 10, 2009)

JadecloudAlchemist said:


> Some would say Christianity was a cult when it began.
> 
> Also saying someone else does it does not excuse the fact of the topic at hand.
> 
> Don't use David Copperfield(Who I have met by the way he signs his name with a pentagram star) David Copperfield is an illusionist are you saying Falun gong is an illusion ala fake?



  Show me some proof that Christianity was a cult.  Didn't the bible have Jesus who healed many people and where he walked on water.  In the bible it it states clearly that man shall not have sex with a man.   How do you know it's an illusion?  I want to see some proof.  Sorry I don't know what ala means.  Nobody has seen a falun gong practioners walk through walks.  I want to see some proof on your claims otherwise it's meaningless.   Have a nice week I need to get some work done and get some training


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## JadecloudAlchemist (Mar 10, 2009)

Here:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/cult



> a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing, person, ideal, etc.


This fits the best defination of what a cult is. 

You can see every major religion starts off as a cult.

As for Buddhism there does exist cults both by the defination above and this one:


> a religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or extremist, with members often living outside of conventional society under the direction of a charismatic leader.


 The Soka Gakkai international is seen as a cult by the Japanese.


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## Sukerkin (Mar 10, 2009)

{Moderator Hat on}

It might be time to realise a losing wicket when you see one, *Dao*.

Expressing beliefs you hold is perfectly fine and is indeed something that is encouraged, within the limits of commonly accepted decency.

When those beliefs begin to prove divisive and promote discord, however, it is better to lower the shutters and accept that MartialTalk is not a forum for religious proselytisation; in much the same way as it is not a place where 'Fraud Busting' is permitted.

As an aside, " a la" means "in the manner of", "similar to" et al.


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## jks9199 (Mar 10, 2009)

Ladies & Gentlemen,

I note that, since the first page, the only topic of discussion has been what amounts to arguing over whether or not Falun Gong/Falun Dafa or whatever other names are used is or is not a cult.  I have yet to see more than a smattering of posts on the original topic.  Consider this a warning.  Play nice together, and return to the topic, lest the thread be locked and sanctions taken as appropriate.

-jks9199
-Moderator


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## Dao (Mar 10, 2009)

Sukerkin said:


> {Moderator Hat on}
> 
> It might be time to realise a losing wicket when you see one, *Dao*.
> 
> ...



 First of all it's not a religion and I never stated as such, my orginal   post is just a survey.  Others have turned into a religious debate not me.  I am not fraud busting I am merely defending my practice.  I am sorry if I caused any harm.


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## Sukerkin (Mar 10, 2009)

I fear you misunderstood my point, *Dao*.

The manner of posting witnessed so far is indeed in line with what might be expected of a 'proselytiser'.  This is a form of 'brow beating' not generally welcome in an on-line community and is actively discouraged.

The note about 'Fraud Busting' was not aimed at yourself but rather in favour of your right to have your opinions and express them within reason - this is not to be interpreted as a carte blanche to foist those opinions on those who do not wish to hear them by the way :lol:.

You've expressed them, they have not been well received and that should be that.


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