# Another Republican speaks out about rape...



## Dirty Dog (Dec 14, 2012)

Is there some secret school these people go to, in order to be so misinformed?

http://news.msn.com/us/judge-says-victims-body-can-prevent-rape



> SANTA ANA, Calif. -- A Southern California judge is being publicly admonished for saying a rape victim "didn't put up a fight" during her assault and that if someone doesn't want sexual intercourse, the body "will not permit that to happen."


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## granfire (Dec 14, 2012)

Dirty Dog said:


> Is there some secret school these people go to, in order to be so misinformed?
> 
> http://news.msn.com/us/judge-says-victims-body-can-prevent-rape



a big step back to the days of 'she really wanted it' and 'she dressed like she wanted it'

ah, yes, the more things change, the more they stay the same....


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## aedrasteia (Dec 14, 2012)

Dirty Dog said:


> Is there some secret school these people go to, in order to be so misinformed?
> 
> http://news.msn.com/us/judge-says-victims-body-can-prevent-rape



DD, thank you for your outrage. please consider doing something concrete and practical to help
on this lingering horror, in your home community. I hope you will join in. 
We desperately need your energy and your help.

The case occurred in 2008.  Judge Johnson made his comments at the sentencing hearing for the convicted man
and came as the judge explained his sentence of only 6 years, instead of 16 possible years in prison

You understand that the l*egal requirement* demanding visible proof of  "deternined resistance"
was placed on (women and girl children) only victims of rape *for decades* - right?  
(stipulated in statute across the country with slight variations in language among states)

No other violent felony statutes placed this hideous burden on victims, AFAIK

And rape statutes were gender specific (at the state level) until the last 30 years - 
meaning *only* P in V assault was considered rape.   
And FBI data collection parameters were not changed until  *this year.* Y  es, January 2012.

Meaning, horribly and sadly, that at the state level, no perpetrator could be arrested for 
rape of an adult man or male child.   (Other crimes could be charged).

Until people like me and thousands more fought like bloody hell for years , one state by one state,
nothing changed. There is extensive legal writing/commentary on the "requirement of resistance". 

It is highly educational to read this body of writing and hearing the perspectives of those who once held these views.
But Judge Johnson is not remotely alone in his opinions, nor in application of his views to specific cases.

Here is the partial text of his comments:

_Unbelievably, Johnson cited his time in the district attorneys sexual assault unit when he lectured the prosecutor on why he was imposing a six-year sentence instead of the 16 requested. Ive seen sexual assault, Johnson said from the bench. Ive seen women who have been ravaged and savaged whose vagina was shredded by the rape.
"I'm not a gynecologist, but I can tell you something," the judge said, according to documents released Thursday. 
"If someone doesn't want to have sexual intercourse, the body shuts down. 
The body will not permit that to happen unless a lot of damage is inflicted, and we heard nothing about that in this case.__"That tells me that the victim in this case, although she wasn't necessarily willing, she didn't put up a fight," the judge said._
_The judge, who has been on the Orange County Superior Court since 2000, also declared the rape "technical" and not "a real, live criminal case.   __"To treat this case like the rape cases that we all hear about is an insult to victims of rape," the judge said. "I think it's an insult. I think it trivializes a rape."

_Here is what the woman was threatened with by the the assailant (her  former boyfriend) - Please note, as in the great majority of cases _not a stranger_.
_Metin Gurel, convicted of rape, forcible oral copulation, domestic battery, stalking and making threats against his former girlfriend. 

*The day he raped her, according to records, Gurel beat her with a metal baton, threatened to maim her face and vagina with a heated screwdriver, burn her face and hair with a lit cigarette lighter and shoot and kill her.

*_As we heard this year, Judge Johnsons' perspective is hardly isolated
I encounter those sharing  his view- not as often as in the past but frequently enoughthat this brings no surprise, 
only sadness and revived determination to bring them to an end.

with respect and appreciation for your post,


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## billc (Dec 14, 2012)

I'm curious as to what his being a republican has to do with this decision.  I have seen outrages things said by all sorts of judges, things that boggle the mind.  I remember one recently where the judge in England complemented the courage of a home invader.  Judges do stupid things and need to be replaced.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/pm-burglar...ghestRated&isNext=true&offset=20&pageNumber=1



> He apparently told an offender who raided three homes in five days: "It takes a huge amount of courage, as far as I can see, for somebody to burgle somebody's house. I wouldn't have the nerve."
> Handing the 26-year-old man a suspended 12-month term, the judge said: "I'm going to take a chance on you."


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## WC_lun (Dec 14, 2012)

LOL Bill you are something else.  If the judge was a Democrat would you still feel the same way?  Or would you be posting link after link from Brieghtbart's site of the evil of Democratic judges?


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## Dirty Dog (Dec 14, 2012)

Just noting a pattern of behavior for republicans. You're certainly doing a fine job of positioning yourselves as THE Party for the Ignorant and Mysoginistic.


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## arnisador (Dec 14, 2012)

Unbelievable.


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## arnisador (Dec 14, 2012)

billc said:


> I'm curious as to what his being a republican has to do with this decision.



You're not serious, are you? Have Democrats been denying biology too?


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## billc (Dec 14, 2012)

They frequently deny rape, and other mysoginistic activity,  especially when their favorite pro-abortion politicians are concerned, Bill Clinton, the dymamic duo Ted Kennedy and Chris dodd, and not to mention all the libs who still support the child rapist Roman Polanski, Whoopi Goldberg who said it wasn't rape, rape, or the other ones who fall over themselves to work with woody allen, so please, when it comes to treating women badly, the democrats shouldn't speak too loudly...

These wonderful actors, directors and producers who excuse child rape because polanski is talented...

http://www.indiewire.com/article/over_100_in_film_community_sign_polanski_petition#!



> > AFP is reporting that a grand assembly of filmmakers, actors and producers from around the world have signed a petition urging the release of director Roman Polanski, who was arrested Sunday in Switzerland on a warrant for a 1977 underage sex case in the United States. Woody Allen, Alejandro Gonzalez Inarritu, Martin Scorcese, David Lynch, Wong Kar Wai, Harmony Korine, Stephen Frears, Alexander Payne, Michael Mann, Wim Wenders, Tilda Swinton, Julian Schnabel, and Pedro Almodovar are among the 100 and counting film industry figures who have signed the petition, coordinated from France by the SACD, an organization which represents performance and visual artists.
> > "We demand the immediate release of Roman Polanski," urges the petition. "Film-makers in France, in Europe, in the United States and around the world are dismayed by this decision... It seems inadmissible to them that an international cultural event, paying homage to one of the greatest contemporary film-makers, is used by police to apprehend him."
> > The following is the SACD petition, followed by a list of names of people who had signed it as of tonight. For a more extensive detailing of Polanski's arrest and potential extradition to the United States, check out _indieWIRE_'scoverage from earlier today.
> 
> ...


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## WC_lun (Dec 15, 2012)

Bill, I didn't expect you to go and prove my point.  Thanks.


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## cdunn (Dec 17, 2012)

Dirty Dog said:


> Is there some secret school these people go to, in order to be so misinformed?
> 
> http://news.msn.com/us/judge-says-victims-body-can-prevent-rape



The glib response would be Sunday school. But the flip side to the conservative concept of 'personal responsibility' is victim blaming. If something bad happens, it can only be the victims fault - they had the responsibility to not let it happen, no matter who else was involved. Stack with this the demonization of women as sexual temptresses, and you have a formula for excusing rape as the woman's fault, no matter how insane it looks.


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## Tez3 (Dec 17, 2012)

cdunn said:


> The glib response would be Sunday school. But the flip side to the conservative concept of 'personal responsibility' is victim blaming. If something bad happens, it can only be the victims fault - they had the responsibility to not let it happen, no matter who else was involved. Stack with this the demonization of women as sexual temptresses, and you have a formula for excusing rape as the woman's fault, no matter how insane it looks.



Sounds just like the Arab and other countries where the woman is punished for rape often by being executed.


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## cdunn (Dec 17, 2012)

Tez3 said:


> Sounds just like the Arab and other countries where the woman is punished for rape often by being executed.



The root disease is the same, yes, just different degress of pustulence.


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## granfire (Dec 17, 2012)

Tez3 said:


> Sounds just like the Arab and other countries where the woman is punished for rape often by being executed.



And I draw ire of the guys when I say Western guys are not so different from those Middle Eastern guys they hate so much....


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## ballen0351 (Dec 17, 2012)

Does not shock me I've seen and heard judges say some stupid crap.  I once saw a judge ask the audience in the court if we thought the guy was guilty or not.  He actually asked for a show of hands and counted.
I was also told by a different judge that police officers can't be assaulted its part of our job we just need to accept it.


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## cdunn (Dec 17, 2012)

granfire said:


> And I draw ire of the guys when I say Western guys are not so different from those Middle Eastern guys they hate so much....



We've only been thinking of women as humans instead of property for a few centuries at most - and change takes centuries to propagate through entire civilizations. There will always be those that call for the return to the older, crueler ways, particularly those who percieve benefit from them, regardless as to if the benefit is real.


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## granfire (Dec 17, 2012)

cdunn said:


> We've only been thinking of women as humans instead of property for a few centuries at most - and change takes centuries to propagate through entire civilizations. There will always be those that call for the return to the older, crueler ways, particularly those who percieve benefit from them, regardless as to if the benefit is real.



Decades, Love, decades, not centuries.


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## cdunn (Dec 17, 2012)

granfire said:


> Decades, Love, decades, not centuries.



Thinking about it and trying to do it are seperate things.  But, yes. We generally agree.


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## Tez3 (Dec 17, 2012)

granfire said:


> Decades, Love, decades, not centuries.



You sounded proper English then just like wot I do!

Sadly this is the case, it _is_ only decades since women started being treated as humans, even that could be described as generous.


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## granfire (Dec 17, 2012)

Tez3 said:


> You sounded proper English then just like wot I do!
> 
> Sadly this is the case, it _is_ only decades since women started being treated as humans, even that could be described as generous.



you are rubbing off on me!


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## billc (Dec 24, 2012)

A democrat speaks out about no violence in schools...

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/jack-c...man-tells-maddow-school-violence-doesnt-exist



> BURGESS: Well, *I was saddened and shocked that he would try to solve a problem that doesn't exist. You see, school violence is very rare. Of all youth violence, only one percent occur in schools. Youth violence and homicides occur on street corners, in homes, in alleys. *What's where the violence is occurring in my neighborhoods and across this country. I am sad and shocked that the URA (yes -- the "URA") which I believe is simply a spokespeople (yes -- "spokespeople") for the gun industry, their solution is always more guns. Guns are killing our people. Assault rifles are killing communities, it's killing our nation. The problem is that we have too many guns.


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## Dirty Dog (Dec 24, 2012)

billc said:


> A democrat speaks out about no violence in schools...
> 
> http://newsbusters.org/blogs/jack-c...man-tells-maddow-school-violence-doesnt-exist



Question: Why is BillC attempting to derail this thread?

Answer: Because it's about a republicans abhorent views on rape. The usual tactic when faced with something that shows the right wing in a less than Saintly light: post a lot of offtopic stuff, in this case by trying to turn it into yet another gun control debate.


Stop trying to hijack the thread, BillC.


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## ballen0351 (Dec 24, 2012)

Dirty Dof 446 said:
			
		

> Question: Why is BillC attempting to derail this thread?
> 
> Answer: Because it's about a republicans abhorent views on rape. The usual tactic when faced with something that shows the right wing in a less than Saintly light: post a lot of offtopic stuff, in this case by trying to turn it into yet another gun control debate.
> 
> ...



Its not about republicanS its a Republican.  I'm a Republican and I don't feel that way about Rape.  Some people say stupid stuff especially old judges


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## Dirty Dog (Dec 24, 2012)

It's yet another example of yet another Republican with ignorant mysoginistic views.


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## arnisador (Dec 24, 2012)

The GOP really has a problem with this. It isn't isolated.


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## ballen0351 (Dec 24, 2012)

Dirty Dog said:


> It's yet another example of yet another Republican with ignorant mysoginistic views.



A few dont speak for the majority they just get the most press.  That's like saying since Bill banged interns then the Democratic party is against marriage.


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## Dirty Dog (Dec 24, 2012)

ballen0351 said:


> A few dont speak for the majority they just get the most press.  That's like saying since Bill banged interns then the Democratic party is against marriage.



Conclusion doesn't follow. Bill Clinton was and is married, even though he cheated (which, studies show, as many as 70% of all people do at one time or another). Incidentially, intern is not interns. How typical to twist the facts.

And which side supports marriage for EVERYONE, not just a narrowly defined portion of the population? Hint: it's not the republicans.

As for a few speaking for the majority, they certainly do, when they draft the party platform.


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## arnisador (Dec 24, 2012)

ballen0351 said:


> A few dont speak for the majority



Actually, in a political party it is indeed the  case that there's a platform, and the GOP one is pretty =anti-women/anti-science, consistent with this.


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## ballen0351 (Dec 24, 2012)

Dirty Dog said:


> Conclusion doesn't follow. Bill Clinton was and is married, even though he cheated (which, studies show, as many as 70% of all people do at one time or another). Incidentially, intern is not interns. How typical to twist the facts.


OK well interns secretarys movie stars and who knows who else.  Face it he's a lousy husband and if not for political dreams they would have divorced years ago.



> And which side supports marriage for EVERYONE, not just a narrowly defined portion of the population? Hint: it's not the republicans.


And again I know Democrats that are against gay marriage 



> As for a few speaking for the majority, they certainly do, when they draft the party platform.



Ive never seen a party platform thats pro rape.


Either way ive never met a republican thats pro rape so again its not republicanS


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## ballen0351 (Dec 24, 2012)

arnisador said:


> Actually, in a political party it is indeed the  case that there's a platform, and the GOP one is pretty =anti-women/anti-science, consistent with this.



I've never seen a political platform that says woman ask to be raped or any of the other nonsense you all claim Republicans stand for.


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## arnisador (Dec 24, 2012)

ballen0351 said:


> I've never seen a political platform that says woman ask to be raped or any of the other nonsense you all claim Republicans stand for.



Republicans keep saying it.


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## ballen0351 (Dec 24, 2012)

arnisador said:


> Republicans keep saying it.



And people say all kinds of stuff just because they happen to be republicans does not mean they speak for us all.  Dems say just as much stupid stuff people are idiots and it is what it is.  All of this talk about change needs to happen to save our kids and you can't even see that one moron says something so far out there that he does not speak for all people.  Your the same one that will turn around ans say all Muslims are not evil but by god all them damn republicans want to rape woman.  Its juvenile and pathetic none of my friends or people I know that are republicans feel this way.  You talk of change well maybe it should start with us to lead by example.  I'm just as guilty as anyone but honestly I've had enough.  You want to lump us all together are rapists fine I'm a repeat I don't care anymore there are more important things in life then this dem said this and ah ha this Republican said that and oh yeah we got you now look at this Republican supposed to be a Mormon and not drink but we got him yeah DUI HA HA HA defend that losers.  I went to a domestic today where a boyfriend strangled his girlfriend in front of there kids because she got a Christmas card from her father and the boyfriends a Muslim so now should I lump them all together and say ha ha ha look at all you Muslims 
I'm over it


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## arnisador (Dec 24, 2012)

ballen0351 said:


> Dems say just as much stupid stuff



Not about matters like rape, or global warming, or the like, no.

As to religious disputes...I'm against them. But one party is essentially its own Christian denomination and the other is much more inclusive.


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## ballen0351 (Dec 24, 2012)

arnisador said:


> Not about matters like rape, or global warming, or the like, no.
> 
> As to religious disputes...I'm against them. But one party is essentially its own Christian denomination and the other is much more inclusive.


If that's all you saw out if that post then were beyond hope I guess good day then you win were all rapists and think science is hocus pocus don't vote Republican then


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