# Why do Middle Class & Upperclass victims INSIST going 1 on 1 on bullies?Without getting into shape?



## 7BallZ (Jan 6, 2016)

Found this tumblr.

Why Middle Class and Upperclass victims of bullying insist on “Fighting” one-on-one? Without pumping themselves up?





			
				ChatWithMarcMacYoung said:
			
		

> First of have you ever watched the movie The Family staring Robert De Niro?
> 
> If you didn’t watch it because not only is it a lovely FANTASTIC movie but in many ways you’ll be  impressed with how it accurately reflects many concepts you mentioned on your NoNoneSenseSelfDefense website.
> 
> ...


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## Flying Crane (Jan 6, 2016)

I need a bunny.  With pancakes.  On its head.


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## Dirty Dog (Jan 6, 2016)

Happy to be of service.


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## Flying Crane (Jan 6, 2016)

Dirty Dog said:


> View attachment 19725
> 
> Happy to be of service.


OH GAWD THANKYOUTHANKYOUTHANKYOUTHANKYOU!!!


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## deflect->atemi (Jan 6, 2016)




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## JP3 (Jan 6, 2016)

I'm trying to resist.... really, I am...

Dammit, I can't. It wasn' upper class, or even middle when I did it, but I followed the pattern in the article. 

Ok, ya got me, I admit it. I failed. But I did read my strategy and tactics books, train like a fiend, Divided and Conquered, etc. So what?


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## punisher73 (Jan 6, 2016)

Ok, besides the obvious, "it's a movie" tact. 

In the movie, they are a well known and notorious "Mob Family" that is in witness relocation.  Working in LE/Corrections for almost 20 years, it is not uncommon for criminal elements to really go overboard in getting revenge.  Which also fits into the criminal aspect of their family.


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## Danny T (Jan 6, 2016)

Not certain but I'm truly thinking that in my world there are some major differences between movie entertainment fantasy and reality in real life. I think I'll research more movies for comparison.


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## 7BallZ (Jan 7, 2016)

You; really missing the point.

I chose THe Family as an analogy because it portrays a contradictory mindset to whats being taught as "self Defense" and "anti-bullying measures" in the mainstream Western world. Ya might want to read this post before reading the rest of what I'll write.

Marc MacYoung - Someone asked why so many martial artists... | Facebook

And this post.

MA Lies about Self-defense

Marc MacYoung's humorous short story about a bear raping a hunter.

http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/bear_hunting.htm#agenda

As well as Marc MacYoung's basics on bullying.

Bullies and NOT backing down

and this AllExpert question on the topic

Self Defense: Does bullying happen to people with traits that by theory should deter it (WTF immense physical strength and HUGE TALL BUFF Body, lots of social connections, superb people skills, not a nerd and is someone into the latest fads, etc)?


Hopefully you can understand what I meant by the basic topic of my thread.

But the bear is exactly what I can't understand. Sure many bullied victims from middle class and upper class take a few martial arts lessons but not only do they neither take the training seriously or more importantly physically build their bodies to even the ground against a bully.

They just assume that a few weekend lessons and BAM they are Captain Karate and they beat up the bully next time.

As typical for bullied victims they get their asses kicked once. Go take a few more lessons and do crappy subpar training. Gets *** kicked in the next bullying scenario. Train for more lessons. Gets *** kicked again. REPEAT. REPEAT. REPEAT. REPEAT. REPEAT. Over and over. A cycle of going back into trainign only into getting *** whooping.

WITHOUT even understanding what gave the bully such as  huge edge that allowed said bully to win. NOT once have many bullied middle class and upper class has realized that they'll need to gain physical prowress if they intend to take their tormentors on.

They don't even understand that just learnigna few kicks and punches  and practising less than 1 hour a week ain't gonna cut it in developing the proper technical mechanics that will allow a weaker person to defend himself against a larger man.

*MOST OF ALL* they keep insisting on going *one-on-one *is precisely whey they keep getting bullied!!!!!!!!

If they get a bunch of friends to ambush said bully in a dark alley or bring some hidden trump card like a bsaeball bat, they wouldn't have gotten beaten up in the next encounter. I mean the Tumblr's post of sneaking in brass knuckles ina  glove or mitten to fight off a bully he keeps losing to is exactly why he wins in the end and scares the bully from ever stopping him again.

And this is a guy who keeps prefering to "fight" a bully in a duel instead of doing more practical tricks like tackling said bullly in  a wall. But even he admits that he had to physically train himself to gain mass and big muscles in order to defend himself againsst bullies in a face-to-face battle (in addition to practising realistic full contact blows and sparring).

Thats what a meant. I f a brawler realizes the need to condition physically and even had to throw some dirty tricks like brass knuckles to stop a bully from harassing hims, why can't middle class and upper class bullied victims understand this?

I mean instead of taking those crappy martial arts class, has the Sci Fi nerd ever though of geting a hammer and breaking the bully's arm? Has the puny 5'2 guy ever thought of getting his larger 6'6 muscular brother to beat up bully so he won't face continuous assaults in school?


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## Tez3 (Jan 7, 2016)

Orcophile said:


> I mean instead of taking those crappy martial arts class,



Ok I think that's about enough now isn't it? You cannot come on to a martial arts site which has many very experienced martial artists and tell us that martial arts classes are crap. People has been far more patient with you than perhaps you deserve and now you are insulting everyone.
All you are doing is asking questions on a website then posting them here and they are all to do with works of fiction. You also cannot keep quoting Marc MacYoung as if he were the sole arbiter of anything to do with martial arts and self defence, we have experienced police officers here, bouncers, fighters, martial artists, MMA fighters and martial artists from all styles here.
*Your OP here is concerned only with how characters in films act*, in fact American middle and upper class isn't even the same as other countries so many of us wouldn't recognise what type of people you are talking about.
Bullying is a serious subject in real life, you by posting this are making a mockery of the suffering real people go through, children are killing themselves because of bullying and you only talk about fictional characters in films made to entertain.
Please, go train a martial art.


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## Ironbear24 (Jan 7, 2016)

I really don't understand what your point here is, are you saying that martial arts is not the way to go to learn to defend yourself? Or suggesting that martial artists also improve their bodies along with learning to fight? If that is the case many already are doing that, it is not something rare.


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## Touch Of Death (Jan 7, 2016)

I will play along. So, the martial artist in, "Valley Girl" was trying beat up the thug heart throb. Although, he was only out to protect his Valley Girl, she really wasn't his, and he was gonna kick that guy's butt, but then that thug forgot to say, "Go," and sneaked a few in on him. I was a bad day for the rich kid, but later after the movie was over, he told his teacher what had happened, and the teacher closed his eyes, and said, "You have much to learn weed hopper..." ....



...


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## Tony Dismukes (Jan 7, 2016)

I don't know who wrote the original blog post, but it sure reads like Orcophile's work. Long, rambling, semi-coherent, confusing movies with reality, obsessed with Marc MacYoung but misunderstanding what Marc writes, asking questions based on faulty premises. If it wasn't Orcophile, does that mean there are more like him out there?



Orcophile said:


> If they get a bunch of friends to ambush said bully in a dark alley or bring some hidden trump card like a bsaeball bat, they wouldn't have gotten beaten up in the next encounter. I mean the Tumblr's post of sneaking in brass knuckles ina glove or mitten to fight off a bully he keeps losing to is exactly why he wins in the end and scares the bully from ever stopping him again.



So - your question is why middle and upper-class folks are less likely to settle disputes by leading armed gangs to ambush their adversaries in a dark alley? Perhaps because they have something to lose if they are charged with assault with a deadly weapon and attempted murder.



Orcophile said:


> Has the puny 5'2 guy ever thought of getting his larger 6'6 muscular brother to beat up bully so he won't face continuous assaults in school?



Probably. Where do you get the idea that this doesn't happen.


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## Tez3 (Jan 7, 2016)

Tony Dismukes said:


> So - your question is why middle and upper-class folks are less likely to settle disputes by leading armed gangs to ambush their adversaries in a dark alley?



The 'upper class' here ie the aristocracy have the peasants to do that for them or they'll just get their Purdey shotguns out and shoot the buggers. The middle class ( it depends too on whether they are upper middle class or lower middle class, or upper working class pretending to be lower middle class) here isn't judged by money but by breeding so they can be as poor as church mice and have very little to lose but won't lead armed gangs because it's not the done thing. The Upper class can also be skint ( which is why marrying rich Americans who want a title is a popular pastime even now) but would still have Purdeys and let their roofs leak on their stately piles though often the damp patches are mistaken for dog pee. British country houses are notoriously uncomfortable.

Actually what really happens is that we  just phone the police and get it sorted that way.


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## lklawson (Jan 7, 2016)

Orcophile said:


> Found this tumblr.
> 
> Why Middle Class and Upperclass victims of bullying insist on “Fighting” one-on-one? Without pumping themselves up?


Here's your answer:

Go get some d@m# training.


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## lklawson (Jan 7, 2016)

Orcophile said:


> You; really missing the point.


You're not equipped to ask the question or understand the answers.

Go get some d@m# training.


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## lklawson (Jan 7, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> I really don't understand what your point here is


He really doesn't either.  That's the biggest part of the problem.  

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## lklawson (Jan 7, 2016)

Touch Of Death said:


> I will play along. So, the martial artist in, "Valley Girl" was trying beat up the thug heart throb. Although, he was only out to protect his Valley Girl, she really wasn't his, and he was gonna kick that guy's butt, but then that thug forgot to say, "Go," and sneaked a few in on him. I was a bad day for the rich kid, but later after the movie was over, he told his teacher what had happened, and the teacher closed his eyes, and said, "You have much to learn weed hopper..." ....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Owww!  You're making my head hurt!  [does that count as no-touch dim mak?]  

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## Buka (Jan 7, 2016)

But he wants the truth!


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## Touch Of Death (Jan 7, 2016)

lklawson said:


> Owww!  You're making my head hurt!  [does that count as no-touch dim mak?]
> 
> Peace favor your sword,
> Kirk


Why, yes it does. Good catch!


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## ShortBridge (Jan 7, 2016)

Would it be wrong to ask for the bunny again? I mean, that is a good 10 minutes of my life that I'll never get back. 

There is a possibility that I'm stupid, but I feel like the bunny with the pancake on it's head was the high point in this thread.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Jan 7, 2016)

Orcophile said:


> You; really missing the point.
> 
> I chose THe Family as an analogy because it portrays a contradictory mindset to whats being taught as "self Defense" and "anti-bullying measures" in the mainstream Western world. Ya might want to read this post before reading the rest of what I'll write.
> 
> ...



Honest question: Why are you so obsessed with Marc MacYoung? And is he aware of your obsession?


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## lklawson (Jan 8, 2016)

kempodisciple said:


> Honest question: Why are you so obsessed with Marc MacYoung? And is he aware of your obsession?


It's what debaters used to call an "Appeal to Authority" fallacy which is kinda funny because said authority (MacYoung) isn't actually saying what the OP thinks he is.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## Tez3 (Jan 8, 2016)

lklawson said:


> It's what debaters used to call an "Appeal to Authority" fallacy which is kinda funny because said authority (MacYoung) isn't actually saying what the OP things he is.
> 
> Peace favor your sword,
> Kirk



Looking again at the link in the OP, while it does say 'chat with MacYoung' but was it actually written by Marc MacYoung? I can't find anything that actually says he wrote that nor can I find any info on the blog/site/whatever it is. Most of the things I've read he puts on his own website or up on FB which is where I see them and answer sometimes, a lot of people do.


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## Tony Dismukes (Jan 8, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> Looking again at the link in the OP, while it does say 'chat with MacYoung' but was it actually written by Marc MacYoung? I can't find anything that actually says he wrote that nor can I find any info on the blog/site/whatever it is. Most of the things I've read he puts on his own website or up on FB which is where I see them and answer sometimes, a lot of people do.


I'm pretty certain the blog has no connection with MacYoung. It's not written in his style. It seems more someone like Orcophile posting semi-coherent essays addressed to Marc.


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## Tony Dismukes (Jan 8, 2016)

Tony Dismukes said:


> I'm pretty certain the blog has no connection with MacYoung. It's not written in his style. It seems more someone like Orcophile posting semi-coherent essays addressed to Marc.


Just checked the only other post on the blog and verified that it's someone talking "to"* Marc MacYoung, responding to the writers interpretation of something Marc had written elsewhere.

*(I highly doubt Marc has taken the time to read this nonsense, so it's really more ranting to the universe at large.)


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## Tez3 (Jan 8, 2016)

Got to be brave or stupid stalking Mac MacYoung lol.


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## pgsmith (Jan 8, 2016)

lklawson said:


> It's what debaters used to call an "Appeal to Authority" fallacy which is kinda funny because said authority (MacYoung) isn't actually saying what the OP thinks he is.
> 
> Peace favor your sword,
> Kirk


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## Paul_D (Jan 11, 2016)

Orcophile said:


> You; really missing the point.


No, you're missing the point.  Movies are not real life.


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## mograph (Jan 13, 2016)

lklawson said:


> It's what debaters used to call an "Appeal to Authority" fallacy which is kinda funny because said authority (MacYoung) isn't actually saying what the OP thinks he is.


Well, technically, an appeal to authority (or _ethos_ appeal) isn't a fallacy unless the authority, well, isn't one (as you suggested) ... or if the authority lies outside the individual's area of expertise. Ethos and _pathos_ (emotion) appeals are legit rhetorical techniques, even though they're strictly not logical (_logos_) appeals, but they can support logos appeals.

Martial arts is full of ethos appeals. Chang San Feng said so. 

Argument from authority - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sorry, I didn't have a bunny, so this is the best I could do. Carry on.


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## JowGaWolf (Jan 13, 2016)

Danny T said:


> Not certain but I'm truly thinking that in my world there are some major differences between movie entertainment fantasy and reality in real life. I think I'll research more movies for comparison.


my life is just like the movies.


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## JowGaWolf (Jan 13, 2016)

Tony Dismukes said:


> I don't know who wrote the original blog post, but it sure reads like Orcophile's work. Long, rambling, semi-coherent, confusing movies with reality, obsessed with Marc MacYoung but misunderstanding what Marc writes, asking questions based on faulty premises. If it wasn't Orcophile, does that mean there are more like him out there?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


lol I bailed out a long time ago with the anime comparisons lol.


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## JowGaWolf (Jan 13, 2016)

Tony Dismukes said:


> I'm pretty certain the blog has no connection with MacYoung. It's not written in his style. It seems more someone like Orcophile posting semi-coherent essays addressed to Marc.


lol I watched some of MacYoung's videos and none of them were of the wall.  some were outdated but none speak the way Orcophile is suggesting.


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## deflect->atemi (Jan 19, 2016)

JowGaWolf said:


> lol I bailed out a long time ago with the anime comparisons lol.









*hides under table*


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