# Man Sau and Iron Rings



## procmail (Sep 10, 2011)

Hi,

I've two questions 

1) what are the reasons you'd extend a hand (Man Sau/asking for a hand) during a fight?

2) when practicing Siu Lim Tau, would it be beneficial to have those iron rings around your arms? If yes, what are the benefits?

Thanks!


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## hunt1 (Sep 10, 2011)

In a fight you don't extend an arm. Do not pose a mun sao. Mun sao is an attack asking the other person to intercept your hand. If there is no intercept then your mun  strikes them. 

Most don't use iron rings for wing chun training.  Iron rings on the forearm does not train wing chun power generation methods. You can of course use them if you wish just need to understand what you are and are not training with them.


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## procmail (Sep 10, 2011)

So if you extend an arm asking to be intercepted, it would be because you have something in mind and want your opponent to commit first?

Regarding the iron rings, I was wondering because I saw a photo of Ip Man with the iron rings on.


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## mook jong man (Sep 10, 2011)

The only reason to be expanding the angle of your arm in Wing Chun is to try and hit through.

The iron rings I would  consider to be a throwback to the old Shaolin temples training methods , probably right up there with practicing your footwork a couple of metres off the ground  on high poles , it looks cool , but probably not really necessary. 
 I don't really think that they are relevant to modern day Wing Chun trainees.


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## yak sao (Sep 10, 2011)

I have a set of rings left over from my old kung fu days.
One place I tend to use them in my WT is the empty hand training for the long pole...they're a pretty decent warmup for the shoulders, just a bit of weight so when you pick up the pole, your shoulders are primed and ready....things you need to consider when you're over the hill like I am.


Plus, they look cool


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## Eric_H (Sep 10, 2011)

Some lineages use "man sau" as the name for a long-arm "asking hand" tool. Some of us just use it to mean the front hand. Please be more clear about which aspect of it you're asking about.

As for Iron rings, they're a useful resistance tool for training soft motions. If you do them wrong (as I did) you can seriously jack yourself up (as I did). Now that I have a good idea of what to do with them, they help me to make sure I'm doing things with structural power vs muscle power, because they help burn the muscles out quicker.


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## procmail (Sep 11, 2011)

I'm asking about the long arm asking hand, sorry I wasnt clearer. It needn't be the leading hand at all.


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## hunt1 (Sep 11, 2011)

Procmail, The Yip man picture with the rings was done as a joke according to the story.

 Yes you only extend because you have something in mind. You are attacking.  It doesn't matter if your opponent commits first. They either give you their hand via a block or intercept or they don't and you hit them. 
 Wrestlers will do this.  Extend an arm hoping you will grab it and they can use your action to pull or push for a single leg. Some kick boxers will do something similar to draw attention away from low kicks.


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## procmail (Sep 11, 2011)

hunt1 said:


> Procmail, The Yip man picture with the rings was done as a joke according to the story.
> 
> Yes you only extend because you have something in mind. You are attacking.  It doesn't matter if your opponent commits first. They either give you their hand via a block or intercept or they don't and you hit them.
> Wrestlers will do this.  Extend an arm hoping you will grab it and they can use your action to pull or push for a single leg. Some kick boxers will do something similar to draw attention away from low kicks.



Thanks for clarifying  Much appreciated!


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## seasoned (Sep 11, 2011)

Iron rings help to maintain shoulder integrity while keeping your structure. Investigate the elbow ground connection and see how the rings help make this happen.


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## Asmo (Oct 2, 2011)

I apologise for dragging up this thread. Both Seasoned and Eric_H have some good points. I've been using iron rings for specific exercises for a few months now and I feel like I'm benefiting from them.

As long as you're using them correctly they can aid in your development.


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