# Hurt with punches and kicks...



## tylerdrun (Nov 8, 2010)

Hello, 

I have just begun my shootfighting classes(attended five so far). I have been practicing my punches and kicks.

Initially I used to punch without using my shoulders(amateur punches)... and my kicks(without thrusting my hips). 

After a few classes, I got this part right using the shoulders and the hips for punches and kicks. 

However, it seems like I am not generating enough power. My instructor tells me that my punches don't look like it's going to hurt and that they are very weak. 

We practice punching the air in the class mainly. How do I work on making my punches stronger and more powerful?

Thanks.


----------



## jks9199 (Nov 8, 2010)

Hit a bag and hit pads.  There's more involved than merely the motions, and you need to feel that on a bag to really generate power.


----------



## Omar B (Nov 8, 2010)

From proper form and mechanics comes power.  Pay attention to the mechanics and tech of more advanced students and do it that way.  Have them help you.  That's why we practice strikes in the air, to learn and ingrain proper form.  You would not believe how people's form goes to crap the moment they come into contact with a target.  

Work your basics, learn how it is done and keep going.  The power will come, you didnt run a marathon the day after learning to walk right.


----------



## Supra Vijai (Nov 10, 2010)

What the other guys said but seriously if you want to get power up with punches, it shouldn't be from your shoulders, it should be from your feet. Traditional martial arts training works that way (from my experience with Ninjutsu and Karate anyway) and so does western boxing. You draw the power up from the earth for any strike you do. Difficult concept to put into words (text) but ask your instructor to demonstrate a punch real slow and ignore his hands, watch his feet/hips/torso/shoulders in that order


----------



## Supra Vijai (Nov 10, 2010)

oh and hit a bag or something so you feel the impact and can work on how your wrists are positioned. I've had a friend of mine who thought he was the next Bruce Lee. First punch against a boxing bag sent it swinging and he was so proud that he went for a 2nd, wrist was off by maybe half an inch and he ended up with a fracture. Remember though, that's against something that doesn't fight back....


----------



## xfighter88 (Dec 7, 2010)

Punches should come from you feet up to your fist. Make sure you are turning your rear foot when you throw a cross and the front foot when you throw a lead hand hook. Bag work is also great for power. As mentioned above though carful not to screw your wrist up. I would use some weightlifting gloves or mma gloves just for the wrist wrapping. We do lots of bag work at my school. It's the only way to learn how to hit hard without hurting yourself. Hit light at first to make sure your wrist isn't collapsing. Then slowly add power.


----------



## WC_lun (Dec 7, 2010)

To make punching even more complicated, the power comes from your feet and through your hips.  If the hip movement isn't correct, the power won't be transmitted well.  I see a lot of begginers push strikes with thier shoulder.  That doesn't create a lot of power and might be what your coach is seeing.  Good luck in your training!


----------



## Nomad (Dec 8, 2010)

WC_lun said:


> To make punching even more complicated, the power comes from your feet and through your hips.  If the hip movement isn't correct, the power won't be transmitted well.  I see a lot of begginers push strikes with thier shoulder.  That doesn't create a lot of power and might be what your coach is seeing.  Good luck in your training!



Yep, and a strong *core* is required to translate this ideal into reality.  A weak core means that the power generated by the legs and hips dissipates instead of being transferred efficiently to the upper body (one instructor likened it to transferring energy through a bag of water in the middle of your technique).  

Keep doing those crunches!


----------



## Supra Vijai (Dec 8, 2010)

Nomad, that raises an interesting point, do you think every martial artist needs to be quite fit in order to be successful in their art? I'm not saying you need to look like Van Damme but an overall fitness is needed? The way we train, we get told not to rely on strength or muscle as much as technique and flow, that way a much smaller opponent can take on someone who is bigger and stronger than them and still succeed in their technique. I'm currently in the process of trying to understand different approaches to the same concepts so just asking this out of curiousity


----------



## Nomad (Dec 9, 2010)

Supra Vijai said:


> Nomad, that raises an interesting point, do you think every martial artist needs to be quite fit in order to be successful in their art? I'm not saying you need to look like Van Damme but an overall fitness is needed? The way we train, we get told not to rely on strength or muscle as much as technique and flow, that way a much smaller opponent can take on someone who is bigger and stronger than them and still succeed in their technique. I'm currently in the process of trying to understand different approaches to the same concepts so just asking this out of curiousity



It depends 

How are you defining success in this case?  Able to perform the syllabus?  Successful in competition?  Able to defend themselves against thugs?  I think it's up to each individual to define their goals of what would make them successful, and strive towards that.

I think there's little doubt that being fit is advantageous for most of these goals.  Good technique can help level the playing field, but anyone who tells you that being stronger, or having better endurance, and so on wouldn't also be a big help is flat-out lying to you.  Better technique *and* superior conditioning/size/strength makes you extremely difficult to beat (then usually relies on a craftier opponent "cheating").  As an aside, being in obviously good shape has another self defense benefit of making you a less attractive potential victim to the bad guys.

I know martial artists who are not particularly fit (mostly due to serious illnesses like heart conditions, bad knees, and so on which limit their ability to work out) who I definitely wouldn't mess with... a combination of great technique, the aforementioned craftiness and a superb sense of distance and timing make them very dangerous even if they won't be doing any spinning jump back kicks.  Usually, this comes after many many years of training, and having to adapt your training to accommodate physical issues like injuries, illnesses and aging.  

Being in better shape will enhance all of your techniques and make them more effective.  It's up to the individual how much they want to split training time between general workouts and technique-specific activity (unfortunately, most of us have limited time to train because of pesky things like jobs, families, and so on, so choices must be made).  Personally, I prefer to balance these two things, depending on where I see my weaknesses (currently working on building back up endurance and conditioning after letting it lapse because of chronic injuries).


----------



## Em MacIntosh (Dec 9, 2010)

Remember that you aren't hitting someone with your arms or legs, you're hitting them with your body, the appendages are just levers to transmit the force.  Technique is paramount but not the only factor to consider.  It's not enough to have strong limbs and core, you need them to be coordinated, otherwise your strength works against you and you can pull a muscle, throw your back out or worse.  Conditioning is often neglected in favor of practicing technique.  They depend on each other.  Makiwara is a good for learning to transmit power without pushing.  The heavy bag is good for impact training your cartilage and it also reminds you that all that power you want to transmit eventually comes down to that capability of the last significant joint, the wrist.  Forearm strength is very important in any martial art, or any activity period.  Work on that kung fu grip and it will help you punch with more confidence, which helps with the psychological aspect of restraint due to fear of injury.  Know you body and work your way up to it.


----------



## Supra Vijai (Dec 9, 2010)

Nomad said:


> It depends
> 
> How are you defining success in this case? Able to perform the syllabus? Successful in competition? Able to defend themselves against thugs? I think it's up to each individual to define their goals of what would make them successful, and strive towards that.
> 
> ...


 
We train for survival rather than sport or fitness so success in this case as I see it would be ideally to avoid the situation in the first place. If that's not possible then to use only as much force as is necessary to discourage the opponent from coming after you and moving on. Either way it's not about submissions, fighting to the death or becoming batman and fighting crime  Just a matter of getting home safe. I completely agree being fit has a whole range of benefits, from MA to general health but I'd personally say endurance fitness means more than muscled fitness in a SD sense. Thoughts?



Em MacIntosh said:


> Remember that you aren't hitting someone with your arms or legs, you're hitting them with your body, the appendages are just levers to transmit the force. Technique is paramount but not the only factor to consider. It's not enough to have strong limbs and core, you need them to be coordinated, otherwise your strength works against you and you can pull a muscle, throw your back out or worse. Conditioning is often neglected in favor of practicing technique. They depend on each other. Makiwara is a good for learning to transmit power without pushing. The heavy bag is good for impact training your cartilage and it also reminds you that all that power you want to transmit eventually comes down to that capability of the last significant joint, the wrist. Forearm strength is very important in any martial art, or any activity period. Work on that kung fu grip and it will help you punch with more confidence, which helps with the psychological aspect of restraint due to fear of injury. Know you body and work your way up to it.


 
Agreed Em  Fitness is useless (in a SD sense) without technique and perfect technique ideally should not rely on any muscle strength and I see correct transmission of power as more a technique thing than strength. But then that could just be our approach again. As I mentioned earlier, we train a TMA but a generalist system with a focus on survival especially with our modern self defence work so that may make a world of difference


----------



## Nomad (Dec 10, 2010)

Supra Vijai said:


> We train for survival rather than sport or fitness so success in this case as I see it would be ideally to avoid the situation in the first place. If that's not possible then to use only as much force as is necessary to discourage the opponent from coming after you and moving on. Either way it's not about submissions, fighting to the death or becoming batman and fighting crime  Just a matter of getting home safe. I completely agree being fit has a whole range of benefits, from MA to general health but I'd personally say endurance fitness means more than muscled fitness in a SD sense. Thoughts?



Endurance fitness will be most helpful in outrunning anyone who is trying to hurt you.  A very useful self-defense skill.  

If you are going to defend yourself physically, then I'd put explosive power way ahead of endurance... most real-life fights just don't last that long.  But being able to deliver a single (or a few) sharp, powerful techniques before they can do any damage to you tends to be a fight-winner.

You can train explosive power with weights, but most weight training doesn't do this (kettlebells definitely does have some applicability here).  Other good training techniques would involve explosive pushups from the ground, plyometrics, and so on.

Technique is very helpful, but if you don't have the strength or power to deliver the techniques in a convincing manner, it won't be the leveler you hope against a considerably larger or stronger opponent.

As an analogy, technique provides the bullet and the sights, but your strength and power decide whether it's a BB gun or a Colt 45.


----------



## Supra Vijai (Dec 10, 2010)

Great analogy there Nomad  Thanks for your insight


----------



## Kenpo17 (Jun 18, 2011)

For strenght, practice on a target or bag, not in the air.  As for the power part of your question, when punching, use your whole body.  Don't just use your shoulder and arm to hit your object, that won't get you very far in a fight.  I use my legs, hips, and upper body when I punch.  Remember that your legs have a lot to do with power.


----------

