# Review of Guang Ping Yang Tai Chi Chuan



## TaiChiTJ

Company:  China Hand Kung Fu Academy
Tape Name: Guang Ping Yang Tai Chi Chuan Applicaitions Volume 1 & 2
Tape Cost:  $54.50
Length of Tape: 80 Minutes
Number of Moves/Techniques: I'm still counting them  
Experiences in dealing with this company: Excellent 
The Instructor: Mr Dominick Ruggieri
Company's Web Page: www.ChinaHandKungFu.com

After getting home from a long day at work I found my order had been fulfilled and this DVD made it successfully to my mailbox. I put it in the player and relaxed into the couch to watch. 

The average Yang Tai Chi player will recognize Parry and Punch, however this Guang Ping style precedes it with the arms making a clearly defined 360 degree circle in front of the body, clearly outlining what could be a parry or neutralization. There is a clearly executed slow, fully extended kick whereas the other Yang styles just suggest it. 

This is clearly a very martial version of Yang style Tai Chi Chuan. 

The quality of this instructional DVD is very high with everything shown
3-5 times. It is definitely directed at teaching a person. It's not like they set up camera at a seminar and forgot about it. 

Multiple options are demonstrated for repulse monkey and cloud hands as well as other postures. Many Yang stylists may already know these but I was surprised 2 or 3 times. I definitely saw a few things I had not seen before. The circular routes for all portions of cloud hands were explored and demonstrated. He explored all the circular routes in enlightening ways for both cloud hands and repulse monkey, as well as other Yang style postures. 

The story about this is available by googling the phrase "guang ping", and several web sites come up that discuss the history of this style. They claim that when Master Cheng-fu  was ordered by the government to come to Beijing and teach he taught a watered down version. I'm sure all the Tai Chi players on this board have heard this before from a variety of sources (Earl Montaigue of course). 

However this is clearly an application oriented form where nothing is hidden or "suggested". It is clear. 

Identifiable fit: Anyone practicing Yang style who wants some application demonstrations. 

Here is a picture from the video: 
<broken link removed>


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## arnisador

I took a seminar on Guan Ping with Henry Look last year! Neat style.


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## TaiChiTJ

Arnisador, you know more about Guang Ping than I do. I would like to go to a Look seminar too.


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## Dronak

TaiChiTJ said:


> They claim that when Master Cheng-fu  was ordered by the government to come to Beijing and teach he taught a watered down version. I'm sure all the Tai Chi players on this board have heard this before from a variety of sources (Earl Montaigue of course).



I've never heard of this style before.  If I read this correctly, it's basically supposed to be the real, original form of Yang style tai chi?  As you mentioned, Earl Montaigue has said something similar, that what's commonly taught now isn't the true, original style.  If that's the case, maybe it would be worth looking into this a bit more.  Do you know if they have any books on this style?  I tend to pefer starting with books, then consider getting videos or DVDs later.  Thanks.


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## Xue Sheng

I know little about Guang Ping Yang Tai Chi Chuan (although I seem to remember something if I remember it I will post it) I have heard it is effective.  But the origins of Yang Tai Chi come from Yang Luchan who learned Tai Chi form the Chen Family.

Much later the style was changed my Yang Chengfu but there is a bit more to the Beijing story than that. 

Not knowing who Guang Ping's teacher was I cannot say how close to original it is. If his teacher was Yang Banhou (Chengfu's Uncle) or Yang Shaohou (Chengfu's older brother) or from that lineage then it is closer to the original Yang style. The only person I know that is currently teaching this lineage is Yang Jwing Ming (no relation to the family) but I have heard there are a few others. And this is also a very effective CMA

But if you can find a true Yang style Teacher from the Chengfu line you are still getting real Yang family Tai Chi and if taught well it too is a very effective CMA. And many of the Yang style postures have greater than one application. 

And there is a living student of Chengfu that calls ALL Yang Tai Chi contemporary and not what his master taught.


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## Dronak

Xue Sheng said:


> Not knowing who Guang Ping's teacher was I cannot say how close to original it is. If his teacher was Yang Banhou (Chengfu's Uncle) or Yang Shaohou (Chengfu's older brother) then it is closer to the original Yang style. The only person I know that is currently teaching this lineage is Yang Jwing Ming (no relation to the family) but I have heard there are a few others. And this is also a very effective CMA



Which lineage is Yang Jwing Ming teaching, the Chengfu one or the older one that's closer to the original Yang style?



Xue Sheng said:


> But if you can find a true Yang style Teacher from the Chengfu line you are still getting real Yang family Tai Chi and if taught well it too is a very effective CMA. And many of the Yang style postures have greater than one application.



It's been a few years since our teacher left the country, and I don't remember him talking that much about his lineage.  I believe that Yang Jwing Ming and our teacher share a teacher a little further up the line, at least on the kung fu side.  I'm not sure how much they share on the tai chi side, but IIRC, our teacher did say that what we learned was coming down through Yang Chengfu.  I could be mistaken, but I seem to remember thinking that we were getting something from the original line when our teacher mentioned whatever he mentioned.  Yang Jwing Ming's books on applications look pretty good, so I've seen at least some of the possible applications for the postures.  And you're right, they do often have a number of applications of different types (felling, chin na, striking, etc.).

Yes, I'm at least partially familiar with the Yang style history and the 24, 42, and 48 posture combined forms.  I have some books with the 24 and 48 forms.  I also have one with a combined form designed to be more circular and thus more suitable for compact spaces.  (I can look up the title and author if you want to know about that one.)  I taught myself the 24 and 48 posture forms, but essentially forgot them after learning the Yang long form in classes at school.  So when I practice, which I know isn't often enough, I do the long form I learned.  It's a little different from what's in books like Yang Jwing Ming's, but not too much, so it looks like what I learned does come out of some older line.  How close to the original it is, I'm not completely sure though.


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## shesulsa

TJ, that last link didn't work; since this is a review (not an ad), I just removed the link.  :asian:



TaiChiTJ said:


> Company:  China Hand Kung Fu Academy
> Tape Name: Guang Ping Yang Tai Chi Chuan Applicaitions Volume 1 & 2
> Tape Cost:  $54.50
> Length of Tape: 80 Minutes
> Number of Moves/Techniques: I'm still counting them
> Experiences in dealing with this company: Excellent
> The Instructor: Mr Dominick Ruggieri
> Company's Web Page: www.ChinaHandKungFu.com
> 
> After getting home from a long day at work I found my order had been fulfilled and this DVD made it successfully to my mailbox. I put it in the player and relaxed into the couch to watch.
> 
> The average Yang Tai Chi player will recognize Parry and Punch, however this Guang Ping style precedes it with the arms making a clearly defined 360 degree circle in front of the body, clearly outlining what could be a parry or neutralization. There is a clearly executed slow, fully extended kick whereas the other Yang styles just suggest it.
> 
> This is clearly a very martial version of Yang style Tai Chi Chuan.
> 
> The quality of this instructional DVD is very high with everything shown
> 3-5 times. It is definitely directed at teaching a person. It's not like they set up camera at a seminar and forgot about it.
> 
> Multiple options are demonstrated for repulse monkey and cloud hands as well as other postures. Many Yang stylists may already know these but I was surprised 2 or 3 times. I definitely saw a few things I had not seen before. The circular routes for all portions of cloud hands were explored and demonstrated. He explored all the circular routes in enlightening ways for both cloud hands and repulse monkey, as well as other Yang style postures.
> 
> The story about this is available by googling the phrase "guang ping", and several web sites come up that discuss the history of this style. They claim that when Master Cheng-fu  was ordered by the government to come to Beijing and teach he taught a watered down version. I'm sure all the Tai Chi players on this board have heard this before from a variety of sources (Earl Montaigue of course).
> 
> However this is clearly an application oriented form where nothing is hidden or "suggested". It is clear.
> 
> Identifiable fit: Anyone practicing Yang style who wants some application demonstrations.
> 
> Here is a picture from the video:
> <broken link removed>


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## Xue Sheng

Dronak said:


> Which lineage is Yang Jwing Ming teaching, the Chengfu one or the older one that's closer to the original Yang style?


 
Yang Jwing Ming&#8217;s lineage comes from Yang Banhou (Chengfu&#8217;s Uncle) I believe Yang Jwing Ming&#8217;s teacher for Tai Chi in Taiwan was someone named Cao Tao



Dronak said:


> It's been a few years since our teacher left the country, and I don't remember him talking that much about his lineage. I believe that Yang Jwing Ming and our teacher share a teacher a little further up the line, at least on the kung fu side. I'm not sure how much they share on the tai chi side, but IIRC, our teacher did say that what we learned was coming down through Yang Chengfu. I could be mistaken, but I seem to remember thinking that we were getting something from the original line when our teacher mentioned whatever he mentioned. Yang Jwing Ming's books on applications look pretty good, so I've seen at least some of the possible applications for the postures. And you're right, they do often have a number of applications of different types (felling, chin na, striking, etc.).


 
If what you teacher learned came from Chengfu it is not the same as Yang Jwing Ming as far as the Tai Chi goes. But that does not mean they do not share a teacher for Kung fu. Yang Jwing Ming had a different teacher for White crane, Gin Gsao Cheng. Yang also knows long fist, but I am not sure who his teacher was for that. He is also rather accomplished at Qinna as well. All come from Taiwan I believe. 

His books on applications are very good and there are a lot of  similarities in application between Chengfu and Banhou. Remember they are still the same family. Banhou&#8217;s version is higher (in stance) with more obvious fajing and qinna than the Chengfu version but the application s are still there. 




Dronak said:


> Yes, I'm at least partially familiar with the Yang style history and the 24, 42, and 48 posture combined forms. I have some books with the 24 and 48 forms. I also have one with a combined form designed to be more circular and thus more suitable for compact spaces. (I can look up the title and author if you want to know about that one.) I taught myself the 24 and 48 posture forms, but essentially forgot them after learning the Yang long form in classes at school. So when I practice, which I know isn't often enough, I do the long form I learned. It's a little different from what's in books like Yang Jwing Ming's, but not too much, so it looks like what I learned does come out of some older line. How close to the original it is, I'm not completely sure though.


 
I started with my first sifu learning 24 and 48 but the 24 form is not from the Yang family directly 24 was made by the Chinese government based on Yang style and 48 is a combination of family styles. I no longer do 48 but I did like it and I do still do 24 but it looks very traditional these days. 

All Yang style forms share the same root they all come from Chen my lineage comes form Chengfu but I do hope to learn the Banhou lineage someday. I rather like it and it does share similarities in form but it also has some fairly big differences as well. 

Keep on training
XS
P.S. My apologies for going off post "Review of Guang Ping Yang Tai Chi Chuan "


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## Dronak

Xue Sheng said:


> If what you teacher learned came from Chengfu it is not the same as Yang Jwing Ming as far as the Tai Chi goes. But that does not mean they do not share a teacher for Kung fu.



I'm fairly certain they do share a teacher in long fist kung fu.  My teacher's older brother in long fist has a web site, and I contacted him for a little help (Chinese names of forms and such).  I asked about Yang Jwing Ming because he has a book on long fist that looked similar to what we learned, but there were differences.  My teacher's brother said, "Mr. Yang's teacher is my Long Fist younger uncle.  His teacher was mostly taught and trained by my teacher and other senior uncles."  For some reason, I still find this slightly confusing, but it does seem clear that my teacher and Yang Jwing Ming share a line in long fist.  I'm not too sure about the tai chi though.  The classes I had were focused on long fist.



Xue Sheng said:


> P.S. My apologies for going off post "Review of Guang Ping Yang Tai Chi Chuan "



Same here.  I didn't mean to get off topic, sorry, so we should probably continue this in another thread, if we're going to.

If someone has additional information on the Guang Ping form/style, I'd be interested in knowing a bit more about it.  Pointers to web sites or something are fine.


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## TaiChiTJ

Thanks, Xue Sheng, for jumping in. Info about jwing-ming I do not know. 

And yes, I had some trouble too, after posting that link into the message, and trying to make it work. 

If, using google, you "exact phrase" with the phrase "guang ping" insisting the two words appear next to each other, the first site is a good place to start. It is the "Guang Ping Yang Tai Chi Association Homepage". 

Below that link is the "Cape Cod Guang Ping Tai Ji Quan Club", and they have a long discussion of the history, as far as they know. 

As far as availability of books, I think there are one or two.

This is like being a detective, trying to take in all this information about the yang forms before the Cheng-fu one. One thing for sure is that with proper guidance you can train any one martially. 

http://www.capecodtaiji.org/history.htm

The above link is the history page on this style. Again, another story. It should work. :ultracool


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## Franzfri

The tai chi that my sifu prefers to teach is the Guang Ping.  There is a school in Paris that teaches it, and another in Charlotte NC.  My school is Peter Kwok's Kong Fu Academy in Emerson NJ.

The lineage is as follows:
Yang Lupchan
Yang Pan-hou (eldest son 1837-1892) Guang Ping Yang Style
Wong Jao-Yu
Kuo Lien Ying
Grand Master Peter Kwok
Sifu Randy Elia


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## Franzfri

Sorry for typo for Yang Lu-chan
The lineage is as follows:
Yang Lu-chan


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## TaiChiTJ

Great Franzfr, I did not know we had a Guang Ping student on MartialTalk. If I come up with any questions I will ask you. 

I am curious about the push hands practice involved in the Guang Ping curriculum. Most Yang schools have a single push hands and a two handed push hands training. And of course there is Da Lu, the big roll back exercise. Do you know if the Guang Ping Yang Style involves other types of push hands exercises?


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## Xue Sheng

TaiChiTJ said:


> Great Franzfr, I did not know we had a Guang Ping student on MartialTalk. If I come up with any questions I will ask you.
> 
> I am curious about the push hands practice involved in the Guang Ping curriculum. Most Yang schools have a single push hands and a two handed push hands training. And of course there is Da Lu, the big roll back exercise. Do you know if the Guang Ping Yang Style involves other types of push hands exercises?


 
Not Guang Ping but traditional Yang style Tai Chi has 1 handed stationary, 2 handed stationary, 3-step (moving), 4-corner (moving), free style push hands as well as a practice of maintaining the circular hand movements while walking just about anywhere to improve stick (zhan), sticky (nian), continuous (lian), and follow (sui)


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## East Winds

Here is a clip of someone doing Gaung Ping form. As this is the first time I have seen Guang Ping, I have no idea whether this is good or bad. I have my own opinion as to it as a Taiji performance though.

My own thoughts watching this is that it appears to owe more to modern forms than to traditonal forms. What are others views?






Very best wishes


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## Franzfri

Thanks for the video.  I have mixed feelings about it.  I would not be watching this person to copy him in class.  He has no shen or intentionand he keeps looking up and down at strange times.  I'm no judge, just a beginner, but the timing confused me.  I'm 62 and cannot do the kicks so athletically, or get down low, but I have good chi and intention in my movements.

I'll ask my sifu about push hands.  We learn one handed and 2 handed push hands.  And I have to learn the 2 handed moving push hand (Shau lu ?) to qualify for a green belt.  We are working on that now in my private classes.


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## Xue Sheng

franzfr said:


> to qualify for a green belt.


 
You have a colored belt ranking system!?


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## Taijiman

Belts help pay the bills


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## East Winds

Yeh!! Even the Yang Family (Yang Zhen Duo and Yang Jun) have introdiced grading!!!:erg:

Very best wishes


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## Xue Sheng

Ranking and belts... in Tai Chi........ I know YMAA did this but

Alrighty then.

Yup I can admit it; I'm a CMA dinosaur and apparently going extinct faster than I thought.


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## TaiChiTJ

Thanks XS, when you count all the variations up there are quite a few. 

I have a cd made by Li Deyin introducing a 32 posture form that is performed in a Yang manner but includes many postures from Wu. It is really an attractive form to watch. He refers to it as the next form in the training progression. So they want you to start with the 24 and then go to the 32. I notice on alot of the cd's they are referring to 2nd Dan and 3rd Dan level. The word "Dan" to me comes from Japanese background, I was a little surprised to see it. So I guess some sort of grading system is being put in place. 

Gotta run. Thanks to everyone for their contribution to this thread.


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## Franzfri

I will try to get a copy of the requirements for each belt.  Yellow only requires knowing the form up to "Wind Blows the Lotus Leaf" and one hand Push Hands.  Green requires knowing the whole form and 2 hand Push Hands with movement.  My Sifu does not do a lot of Push Hands in his regular classes.  I understand the concept, but have a hard time with it in practice.  

I've noticed that he goes over the same material in our group class that he does with me in my private lesson.  I'm wondering if he'll be doing Push Hands more now that he wants me to learn it.  He has some students that started before me but take only one group class a week.  I've cought up to them and gone past them in some of the newer things we've been learning this year.

We also have some very new students in the other group class and we've been going over the postures in minute detail with emphasis on the chi and this week with a lot of emphasis on application.  One of the new students has a lot of experience in other martial arts which I think is spurring the demonstrations of application.


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## Xue Sheng

I forgot a part of the push hands curriculum of Traditional Yang style tai thi in my previous post, or at least as traditional Yang comes from Tung Ying Chieh. 

There is one step that I have referred to in the past (when talking to my Sifu) as the push hands 2 step. But this is geared much more towards actual application of the postures and forms as well as being closer to real world application.


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## TaiChiTJ

There is a book called "The Complete Idiots Guide to Tai Chi Chuan", and the author chose to teach the Guang Ping form. The book comes with a DVD, that shows him doing the whole form once, and two lessons from his bigger DVD set that he sells separately (for 98 bucks). The book has interesting line drawings showing the whole form, in a format that shows the previous posture in light ink and the current posture in darker ink. I suppose a person could learn it this way but his focus is not on martial use, just the health aspects. Cool that he chose the Guang Ping form, though. Here's the link: 

http://smartaichi.com/WTCQDDVDBookVidLstg.html


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## Franzfri

Xue Sheng said:


> You have a colored belt ranking system!?


 
Yes - Here are the requirements;

YELLOW SASH/elementary; (international skill level 5.5-7.0) 
FORMS; 24 Movement Short form OR Guang Ping Yang form through "Wind Blows the Lotus Leaf", 
PUSH HANDS-Single Hand

GREEN SASH/basic; (international skilll level 6.0-7.5) one year minimum. FORMS; 1st side Guang Ping Yang, Broadsword, 
PUSH HANDS-Shao Lu(standing/moving/reverse) and 2 person broadsword

PURPLE SASH/intermediate; (international skill level 7.0-8.5) 3 years minimum. FORMS; Guang Ping Yang form and mirror side. Start working with & demonstrating silk reeling energy in forms and assist in teaching with Master/Sifu
PUSH HANDS; Da Lu (both sides), one side San Shao, free style

GRAY SASH/advanced; (international skill level 8.0-9.5) 5 years minimum. FORMS; Jin, improve mirror side of Guang Ping Yang, Names of postures, lineage, assist teaching, 
PUSH HANDS; San Shao both side, better understanding of free style

BLACK SASH; (international skill level 8.0-9.5) 5 years minimum.
FORMS; all forms with proficiency and spirit, 2 person spar
PUSH HANDS; San Shao mirror, both sides.

Also re. the video that started this thread. My sifu says that it was made by a student of his an that this student also films his training videos. The man who is in the the video on YouTube is probably a student of the teacher that made the teaching video in the 1st post. (I'm not sure if what I've written here makes sense or if I should rewrite it) At any rate there is another school in NJ that teaches the Guang Ping. Most of the members of the Guang Ping Assoc. are on the west coast. I'll try to answer or get answers to any other questions.


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## Franzfri

Oh yes, Wednesday, half our class was devoted to application in both the 24 movement form and the Guang Ping Yand and the differences.  Most of the students in Wednesdays class either started with the 24 movement form or know it.  Not me.  I started with the Guang Ping and have had very little instruction in the 24.  I've just been following along whenever we do it in class.  I station myself in the middle and try to follow what the others are doing.  I have a feeling that my sifu intends to change that in the near future.


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## TaiChiTJ

Thanks, Franzfr, for contributing about your involvement with the Guang Ping system. Cool to here about all this.


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## Xue Sheng

franzfr said:


> Yes - Here are the requirements;


 
Cool, thanks.

I have recently come across something that alluded to the Guang Ping Yang stance being more of a back stance similar to xingyi than a front stance like traditional Yang as it comes from Chengfu, is this true?

But having asked that I am now not sure what stance they were actually talking about since the actual fighting stance for traditional yang as it comes from Chengfu via Tung is also more of a back stance. But the majority of the postures are not.


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## Franzfri

Xue Sheng said:


> Cool, thanks.
> 
> I have recently come across something that alluded to the Guang Ping Yang stance being more of a back stance similar to xingyi than a front stance like traditional Yang as it comes from Chengfu, is this true?
> 
> But having asked that I am now not sure what stance they were actually talking about since the actual fighting stance for traditional yang as it comes from Chengfu via Tung is also more of a back stance. But the majority of the postures are not.


 
Most of the stances in the Guang Ping are evenly balanced.  There is 1 jump kick that starts with a front balanced stance.  I think we call it a "bow and arrow" stance.  The short form and the broad sword form are both front balanced as we practice them in my school.  It was very strange when one of the Shao Lin Sifus stood in for Sifu Elia.  He kept saying that the short form was the more martial than the Guang Ping.  Yet Sifu Ellia, as I understand him, says that the Guang Ping stances all have martial applications, while not all the short form stances have martial applications.  When the Shau Lin Sifu teaches our class I am not very happy.  I'de reather have one of the Black Belts that are commited to Tai Chi teach.  It's interesting that one is very cerebral in his teaching, while the other is more practical.


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## Xue Sheng

franzfr said:


> Most of the stances in the Guang Ping are evenly balanced. There is 1 jump kick that starts with a front balanced stance. I think we call it a "bow and arrow" stance. The short form and the broad sword form are both front balanced as we practice them in my school. It was very strange when one of the Shao Lin Sifus stood in for Sifu Elia. He kept saying that the short form was the more martial than the Guang Ping. Yet Sifu Ellia, as I understand him, says that the Guang Ping stances all have martial applications, while not all the short form stances have martial applications. When the Shau Lin Sifu teaches our class I am not very happy. I'de reather have one of the Black Belts that are commited to Tai Chi teach. It's interesting that one is very cerebral in his teaching, while the other is more practical.


 
Thank You

Actually all Traditional Yang style postures have martial applications as well it is the initial fighting stance that is more of a back stance.


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