# Chow interview Synopsis



## Doc (May 20, 2005)

In the latest issue of Black Belt Magazine, there is an interesting last interview with Kwai Sun Thunderbolt Chow. Read in its entirety, it says much about Professor Chow at the time of the interview in 1986. A plain and simple man, he often spoke directly of his feelings of the moment. He often played mind games and even would say the opposite of what he actually meant sometimes only to correct you later in the conversation, after you assumed he meant what he said previously. 

He was small in stature but a giant of a man with a rich personal history who never failed to have an opinion on a subject, and you could make of it what you will, because if you didnt like it, he could whip your a$$. Some of the things said were controversial, but the interviewer, Jim Perkins, makes note of this wry sense of humor and emotional dichotomy that keeps you off balance, and allows you should take the interview, and Chow at face value.

Some of the things covered:

When asked how he received the title Professor, he essentially said he gave the title to himself, and the interviewer could do the same. He than alluded to that if you did he and Emperado would come to see you to determine if you could back the title up. I like that. I wish we could do that today.

When asked how he became a 15th degree, Chow asked what the highest rank was. When the interviewer said 10th, Chow allowed that is why he is 15th. If everyone else is 10th, than the Professor is 15th.

When asked about Mitose, Chow displayed pictures of very large Japanese men, Chow essentially says, these huge men are Mitose bodyguards. He added that he knocked them both out. When asked if he got his black belt from Mitose, Chow said his father taught him not Mitose, and that Mitose was just a con man. In describing his relationship with Mitose, he said what I had always been told by Ed Parker Sr., that they collaborated with each other. And he added, Mitose used him to make himself famous by setting up demos where Chow performed all of the physical stuff, and Mitose talk, while Chow would show. He also spoke of how Mitose had to have bodyguards because a lot of people wanted to beat him up, and he was afraid.

On Ed Parker, Chow said, Parker big shot on the mainland, right? When the interviewer agreed Chow (upset) said, Ed Parker think he the King of Kenpo, but he wrong! There is no King of Kenpo. There is only the Professor. When the interviewer pointed out Parker was one of his Black Belts, Chow said, No hes not! He tell people that to make himself look big. Everyone says they Black Belt under the Professor just to make money. When the interviewer asked if Parker trained under him, Chow said, He trained under me, but he only make it to purple belt. He work more with Emperado than me. Go talk to him. (Emperado)

When asked who would take over when he retired, Chow said, There is only one man who know all of Kara-Ho System: Jacob. And pointed to one of his black belts, and added, He been my student since 5 years old.

When asked who one should go see on the mainland to learn true Kara-Ho, Chow said, You go see Nick Cerio. 

The short interview is a fascinating one and I urge everyone to get a copy and read it for themselves. Everyone is fairly polarized already on most of the subjects in the interview, but its interesting reading and you can make of it what you will. AFTER reading the interview in its entirety, Im sure it will make for some spirited discussions on this thread. Enjoy.


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## TChase (May 20, 2005)

This is a little off the subject but I have Ed Parker on video talking about his fallout with Chow. Basically what he said was he and Chow had planned to come to the mainland together to open a Kenpo school after he finished college. When the time came Chow changed his mind. He wanted to stay on the island and told Parker to go on his own. Later on when Chow found out Parker was getting famous and making good money he told Parker that he owed him and should give him money. Parker told him that he paid for his lessons and even gave him money out of his own pocket many times to help him out. He came here alone and built himself up from nothing and he wasn't going to give Chow anything.

That of course is only one side of the story but I tend to believe it.


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## Doc (May 20, 2005)

TChase said:
			
		

> This is a little off the subject but I have Ed Parker on video talking about his fallout with Chow. Basically what he said was he and Chow had planned to come to the mainland together to open a Kenpo school after he finished college. When the time came Chow changed his mind. He wanted to stay on the island and told Parker to go on his own. Later on when Chow found out Parker was getting famous and making good money he told Parker that he owed him and should give him money. Parker told him that he paid for his lessons and even gave him money out of his own pocket many times to help him out. He came here alone and built himself up from nothing and he wasn't going to give Chow anything.
> 
> That of course is only one side of the story but I tend to believe it.


It is also exactly what Mr. Parker told me "back in the day." Apparently it did foster some ill feelings on Chow's part, but as Parker stated, "I definetly kept my end of the deal." Even so, Par \ker always gave Chow the credit for giving him his start, but more importantly, for the wholly creative idea of approaching the martial arts from a pure modern self defense perspective. Something completely unheard of the times.


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## kenmpoka (May 20, 2005)

Doc said:
			
		

> In the latest issue of Black Belt Magazine, there is an interesting last interview with Kwai Sun Thunderbolt Chow. Read in its entirety, it says much about Professor Chow at the time of the interview in 1986. A plain and simple man, he often spoke directly of his feelings of the moment. He often played mind games and even would say the opposite of what he actually meant sometimes only to correct you later in the conversation, after you assumed he meant what he said previously.
> 
> He was small in stature but a giant of a man with a rich personal history who never failed to have an opinion on a subject, and you could make of it what you will, because if you didnt like it, he could whip your a$$. Some of the things said were controversial, but the interviewer, Jim Perkins, makes note of this wry sense of humor and emotional dichotomy that keeps you off balance, and allows you should take the interview, and Chow at face value.
> 
> ...



Hello Dr. Chapel,

Thank you for this complete synopsis. I saw the article a few days ago and it got me thinking a bit.
I will not discuss the Mitose/ Chow relationship nor the knowledge that these men did or did not possess, although I am skeptical to completely agree with Mr.Chow on this subject. I am also very doubtful of his father being a Master martial artist. Mainly for the reason that non of the other brothers (Chow) ever accquired any knowledge nor ever had mentioned their Father as the source.
By the way, my Father passed away last year, and before his untimely death, he promoted me to the mastership of all that I have studied as well. Of course this cannot be verified since he is dead.

I also found it very interesting that Mr. Chow acknowledged Mr. Cerio as his BB and the knowledge bearer of Kara-ho on the mainland, and that there was no mention of Mr.Bill Chun Sr., or Mr. Sam Kuoha.

No disrespect intended to anyone or any group......

How are you doing Sir? It's been a while since we exchanged e-mails.

Salute,


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## Doc (May 20, 2005)

kenmpoka said:
			
		

> Hello Dr. Chapel,
> 
> Thank you for this complete synopsis. I saw the article a few days ago and it got me thinking a bit.
> I will not discuss the Mitose/ Chow relationship nor the knowledge that these men did or did not possess, although I am skeptical to completely agree with Mr.Chow on this subject. I am also very doubtful of his father being a Master martial artist. Mainly for the reason that non of the other brothers (Chow) ever accquired any knowledge nor ever had mentioned their Father as the source.
> ...


Hey he is still alive! How are you sir,  I'm just working and teachng as usual. Was just thinking about you not too long ago, and wondering where you were. Good to hear from you.


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## The Kai (May 21, 2005)

From what I've heard William K.S. Chow had a revolving shi* list.  Basically anybody that trained with him was on the list at one time or another.  While Parker, Castro etc might not have been giving money to Chow they spread the word on him-possibly making him one of the most famous hawaiin martial artists.  


Chow promoting himself to 15th degree definatly took stones.  However, as he said you to can promote yourself-but I come and visit!!

Not as knock on Nick Cerio-but the idea that he was the leading Kara Ho guy on the mainland was a surprise!


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## Thunderbolt (May 21, 2005)

after reading this article in the latest issue of BB magazine, I expect everything else BUT the only 2 things got my attentions are

1-"Jacob" person for karaho leadership
2-Nick Cerios for learning karaho.

I am still suprised.! This is definitely getting more interesting.


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## The Kai (May 22, 2005)

Given Chow's tempermental nature, would he have pointed out different people on a differnet week>?


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## Doc (May 22, 2005)

The Kai said:
			
		

> Given Chow's tempermental nature, would he have pointed out different people on a differnet week>?


That's a reasonable assumption based on Mr. Chow's volatile nature later in his life. He carried an unhealthy dose of bitterness into his years as, it appeared to him, everyone else was having some measure of success at his exspense. Some of the things he would say he would retract two sentences later, while in others he was always be firm and consistent in his convictions.

His stand on Mitose for example, never changed and I believe was the seed and the beginning of his mistrust of students and associates. At one point Mr. Parker speculated this was the reason he thought Chow decided not to come to the mainland as his business partner. Chow had been "burned" with Mitose, and he knew he wasn't very educated, out of his element and at the mercy of others for support. The idea made him very uncomfortable.

Some took his stance on his self awarded 15th degree serious and questioned his mental state. Ed Parker said, Chow was just stating how he felt about all the others claiming 10th. It was obvious Chow felt if they were 10th, well he had to be a 15th because he didn't think they were any good.

Still he was also very consistent with how he felt about Sijo Emperado, and never waivered in his support of him as far as I know.

He did establish short term relationships with some on the mainland in an effort to duplicate some of his students successes, but never reached the noteriety of his more well known associates.

His "sucessors" changed often and could arguably be stated to be almost anyone, depending upon who you talked to and when. The interview seems to point at Cerio, but Cerio did nothing like Chow opting instead for his own style. Chow even changed the name of his style several times so who knows which version he was speaking of. Sounds familiar doesn't it?

later on, and this is just my opinion, Chow was trying to move more like his famous student Ed Parker, and was clearly different from what he was doing earlier. Chow's approach and technique was always very direct and more "Japanese-like" rigid, and very effective with few moves. near the end, the flashy uniform with decorations was just a last attempt to gain acceptance and find his place in the Kenpo world he virtually created, that was moving on without him.

There will always be much controversy surrounding this man and his many "students" and associates, however the one thing about him that never changed from era-to-era from person-to-person by all accounts is - this man was one tough sob, and one hell of a fighter. 

William Kwai Sun Chow, aka "Thunderbolt." R.I.P.


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## Matt (May 23, 2005)

Doc said:
			
		

> When asked who one should go see on the mainland to learn true Kara-Ho, Chow said, You go see Nick Cerio.



That wouldn't surprise me from a 1976 article, but 1986, it does. 



> The short interview is a fascinating one and I urge everyone to get a copy and read it for themselves. Everyone is fairly polarized already on most of the subjects in the interview, but its interesting reading and you can make of it what you will. AFTER reading the interview in its entirety, Im sure it will make for some spirited discussions on this thread. Enjoy.



I ran right out to my local Borders, but they had the june 2005 issue with no sign of the article. What's the cover date on the one with the interview?

Thanks,

Matt


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## Doc (May 23, 2005)

Matt said:
			
		

> That wouldn't surprise me from a 1976 article, but 1986, it does.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


JULY 2005. I have a lifetime subscription from the original owners, and most subscribers get theirs a bit earlier than the news stands.


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## Casey_Sutherland (May 23, 2005)

A lifetime subscription. That is amazing.


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## Danjo (May 23, 2005)

Doc said:
			
		

> later on, and this is just my opinion, Chow was trying to move more like his famous student Ed Parker, and was clearly different from what he was doing earlier. Chow's approach and technique was always very direct and more "Japanese-like" rigid, and very effective with few moves. near the end, the flashy uniform with decorations was just a last attempt to gain acceptance and find his place in the Kenpo world he virtually created, that was moving on without him.


Doc,

was the stuff we see in "What is Self Defense? Kenpo JiuJitsu" closer to what Chow trained in for the most part? I remember in the Emperado interview him saying that Chow trained for the one-punch kills etc. Who introduced the rapid-fire punching that you see in Chun's Hansuki etc?


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## Doc (May 23, 2005)

Casey_Sutherland said:
			
		

> A lifetime subscription. That is amazing.


Not really when you've been around as long as I have. I know the original owners of the magazine and Martial Arts Supply. Originally they were one company run by the Uyehara Brothers located on west Washigton Blvd in Los Angeles. When they began to grow the brothers split the business and even tried to get Ed Parker involved in the magazine as a business partner. Parker turned them down at the time, but a few of the guys received lifetime subscriptions for helping them out with moving and other things. In fact I still have my copy of issue number one featuring, "The Black Belt Mormon - Ed Parker."


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## Doc (May 23, 2005)

Danjo said:
			
		

> Doc,
> 
> was the stuff we see in "What is Self Defense? Kenpo JiuJitsu" closer to what Chow trained in for the most part? I remember in the Emperado interview him saying that Chow trained for the one-punch kills etc. Who introduced the rapid-fire punching that you see in Chun's Hansuki etc?



My opinion: 

What is in Mitose's Book(s) are awful representations of the available arts of Hawaii or Japan. Some look at these books and "see" something I'm missing. They are poorly posed copies of someone else's books, but that debate will go on.

Chow was a hard hitting "quick striker" who could end a fight with one punch. He also could and would grapple with the best of them. He would even NOT hit a person in favor of a takedown so he could practice his ground technique. He was cocky and could back every bit of it up. His nickname "Thunderbolt" was given to him by his friends and foes alike because of this "quick one strike" game over ability. Parker said Chow had the ability to multiple strike but Chow's attitude was ""Why?"

When Chow would demo he would knock guys out with one strike, or he would grapple them. He was effective, but not very exciting. Later when students like Sijo Emperado, Ed Parker Sr., and even Bill Chun Sr. were obtaining success by the more impressive"multiple quick strike" techniques, Chow actually began to emulate their movements because it was good showmanship.

Parker always said, "Showmanship has to be a part of demos to sell the art." and learned the lesson quickly on the mainland. In his first book, "Kenpo Karate" he was criticized by Chow for the "length" of the techniques, as a "Show off." even though the techniques were only  four or five moves long. Than when Parker went to the Chinese, a whole new world opened up, and he completely changed is philosophical methodology.

Kwai Sun Chow ultimately learned the lesson himself and adopted flashy uniforms and huge wide gold belts and gaudy piping and embroidery you'd see in a Vegas stage act. His demos changed to, well, "Parker like movements" where he seemed lost when trying to end the technique, like he was in uncharted territory. His "real" confrontations never lasted that long.


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## Casey_Sutherland (May 23, 2005)

Doc said:
			
		

> Not really when you've been around as long as I have. I know the original owners of the magazine and Martial Arts Supply. Originally they were one company run by the Uyehara Brothers located on west Washigton Blvd in Los Angeles. When they began to grow the brothers split the business and even tried to get Ed Parker involved in the magazine as a business partner. Parker turned them down at the time, but a few of the guys received lifetime subscriptions for helping them out with moving and other things. In fact I still have my copy of issue number one featuring, "The Black Belt Mormon - Ed Parker."


I remember hearing a snippit of that story about the magazine before. I think it is still pretty amazing that someone could have a lifetime subscription to something like that. Issue number 1 would definatly be an amazing collectors item.


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## Doc (May 24, 2005)

Casey_Sutherland said:
			
		

> I remember hearing a snippit of that story about the magazine before. I think it is still pretty amazing that someone could have a lifetime subscription to something like that. Issue number 1 would definatly be an amazing collectors item.


Never really thought about it. I guess you're right. Maybe I should go look to make sure I still have that issue. I'm sure I do along with a ton of the other issues.


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## Danjo (May 24, 2005)

Doc said:
			
		

> My opinion:
> 
> What is in Mitose's Book(s) are awful representations of the available arts of Hawaii or Japan. Some look at these books and "see" something I'm missing. They are poorly posed copies of someone else's books, but that debate will go on.
> 
> ...


Doc, 
thank you. This clears up a lot of things for me that I have heard and read. Thanks again.


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## JakeG (Oct 27, 2006)

Danjo said:


> Doc,
> 
> was the stuff we see in "What is Self Defense? Kenpo JiuJitsu" closer to what Chow trained in for the most part? I remember in the Emperado interview him saying that Chow trained for the one-punch kills etc. Who introduced the rapid-fire punching that you see in Chun's Hansuki etc?


 

How's it going. I'm a new member here. I know this is an old thread, but I just read this post. The Chun Hansuki/Honsuki has rapid fire punching? Is this Go Shin Jitsu-Kai Chinese Kempo's Bill Chun you are speaking of?  I know this form and this is not a true observation unless somebody has changed it since I learned it in in the early 90's. Chun's Kempo was never about rapid fire hits. Please elaborate thankyou!

Jacob


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## Danjo (Oct 27, 2006)

JakeG said:


> How's it going. I'm a new member here. I know this is an old thread, but I just read this post. The Chun Hansuki/Honsuki has rapid fire punching? Is this Go Shin Jitsu-Kai Chinese Kempo's Bill Chun you are speaking of? I know this form and this is not a true observation unless somebody has changed it since I learned it in in the early 90's. Chun's Kempo was never about rapid fire hits. Please elaborate thankyou!
> 
> Jacob


 
I've heard this story before about Cerio's Hansuki being different than Chun's. I'd love too see footage of the two versions for comparison.


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## JakeG (Oct 27, 2006)

Danjo said:


> I've heard this story before about Cerio's Hansuki being different than Chun's. I'd love too see footage of the two versions for comparison.


 

Well I have never seen them compared, however I did do the first 5 moves for some Cerio students once and they did not recognize it. 

Jacob


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## Joe Shuras (Feb 15, 2007)

JakeG said:


> How's it going. I'm a new member here. I know this is an old thread, but I just read this post. The Chun Hansuki/Honsuki has rapid fire punching? Is this Go Shin Jitsu-Kai Chinese Kempo's Bill Chun you are speaking of? I know this form and this is not a true observation unless somebody has changed it since I learned it in in the early 90's. Chun's Kempo was never about rapid fire hits. Please elaborate thankyou!
> 
> Jacob


 
Hello Jacob, I'm a little puzzled also. About five or six years ago in Framingham, Ma. (I'll have to check my certificate for the exact year) -  myself, Joe Rebelo and Matt Barnes asked Master Bill Chun Jr. about Hansuki. He demonstrated a portion of the beginning, the middle and the end. We all not only observed similiarites (differences also) but there was definitely the rapid fire hand strikes. The SKK version, although different, was recognizable to what Master Chun showed us. 

Now, here's some of the confusion. I also have communicated via e-mail with Master Chun on this form and he explained how it is not part of the curriculum but a chosen form to be given to chosen black belts. Jacob, when you demonstrated for Nick Chamberlain and John James of Nick Cerio's Kenpo they were comparing the form to Cat Form #5, not Shaolin Kempo Karate's Honsuki/Hansuki. Nick Cerio took Hansuki and radically altered it to fit his own perpective when he created Nick Cerio's Kenpo. So, that is probably some of the confusion here and why it was unrecognizable.

Now, on another thread here there is some question of who altered the SKK version, Nick Cerio or Fred Villari. I asked Nick Cerio this back around 15 years ago. He told me Master Bill Chun Sr. taught him the form and he chose his brother, Frank Cerio, to teach the form too. Later, when Nick was in Florida, Frank taught it to Fred Villari without Nick's permission. I believe this was around 1971. Nick also told me there were elbows, forearms and sweeps in the original that Fred had deleted. For the SKK practitioners here, I asked Nick Cerio about the section where you're in a horse stance facing 9 o'clock and you throw the double rapid fire strikes up the torso to the head and he stated Fred put that in but it does appear to be something along the line of Chow's methods from what others have stated.

I would like to go on record to say I have been in the company of Master Chun Jr. three times, seminars and the Nick Cerio's Legacy Memorial and have found him to be a credit to the martial arts community, highly skilled, powerful, tough as nails and a helluva nice guy. A real professional. He has my utmost respect and admiration. IMHO, he is Chow's Kempo - Joe


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## marlon (Feb 15, 2007)

Master Shuras,
did Master Chun jr. feel that the skk version still taught the essentials of the original form?

marlon


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## Joe Shuras (Feb 16, 2007)

marlon said:


> Master Shuras,
> did Master Chun jr. feel that the skk version still taught the essentials of the original form?
> 
> marlon


 
Marlon, I'll tell you what, below I'll will post a correspodence I had with Master Chun Jr. on the form and then I will give you my perspective.

Dear Shihan Shuras,I've received your e-mail from my student Brian, I'm using my wife's computerso I can try to answer your question. This way I can explain a few thingsabout your question.First, I'll let you know that at the GOE2 I met Shihan James and Chamberlainthat also were students of the late Nick Cerio. They asked the same questionabout our Hansuki, so what I did I had my student Jacob Goetz who alsotrained under my father, do 10 moves of the Hansuki. The reason I had him doonly 10 moves, was because I knew the 2 gentleman that I just met wasn'tgoing to recognize our moves. Because, there are different versions andspellings. When Jacob was done Shihan Chamberlain looked down and shook hishead and than looked up at and said," that's not how we do it". So I tried tocomfort him by telling him that if Nick Cerio taught it another way don'tfeel bad about it. We have to remember one important thing in our Kenpo/Kempoworld! Our teachers had their own version or vision as their teachers. LikeI'm telling many of you that knows the Hansuki or Honsuki this form is thelinage to our teachers and our roots... God bless our Kenpo/Kempo fathersthat brought this art as it suppose to be. I hope that you will also teachanother side of this form. We are creators of this art. This form shouldhave more moves in it so that whoever teaches it can show our roots...So Shihan Shuras as you will get to know me and what the relationship I hadwith the 2 most important people that loved so dearly and what they taughtme, is always going to be with me until I leave this world. Also our blackbelts were taught forms that they should know for promotion only to become ablack belt. And there are some of them that weren't taught the Hansuki form.I will keep my promise to the Prof. and my father that the chosen ones willbe the only ones taught this form...I will close for now and I hope to hear from you again, we are Kenpo/Kempofamily by roots of Professor William K.S. Chow...Aloha,Master Bill Chun,Jr.GSJK/DSKK

Marlon, as my friend Peter Teymourez once posted on a thread when some of us were going back and forth on what was the original (Hansuki) and so forth. He essentially wrote: 'It doesn't suppose to be the same, we're Shaolin Kempo not Goshinjitsu Kai Chinese Kempo.' 'We are suppose to be different'.

I say: This is our version, it is not wrong and it is not watered done, just altered to meet the criteria and the vision of those seniors (Cerio & Villari) of our lineage who came before us, who modified and adapted the form to fit their own perspective of Kenpo/Kempo and what they felt it should be. 

The SKK version contains many principles and concepts of Professor Chow's perspective of Kenpo with, I'm sure, a touch of Villari and Cerio who also trace back to George Pesare, the New England founder of Kenpo/Kempo Karate. I've read and heard Chow stressed going up and down the centerline rapid fire, sometimes hitting the same targets multiply times to set up and destruct vital areas, he also utilized what I refer to the 'rising and falling' horse stance, the poison hand, striking and/or blocking off the lead, the soft inward block or trap at your bicep as you simultaneously strike w/ a spear hand to throat or solar plexus (seen that in a picture of Chow), the tension breathing exercises that is strongly stressed in Goshinjitsu Kai Chinese Kempo, and the opening striking combination done on both sides at 10 o'clock & 3 o'clock w/ the riken (side type backfist to the face which as you draw back continues into a side hammer fist to solar plexus, I've seen this movement done by Master Chun Jr. on a video clip as a self defense technique, I think it was against a grab.....all these I've just mentioned are in the Honsuki I learned in SKK in the 70's. 

GGM. Ralph Castro stated in a magazine article of Professor Chow's concept of FINDING OR CREATING AN OPENING in an opponent's defense (or offense for that matter) through the bombardment of rapid fire strikes. Now, I wonder, "to find or create an opening" (that's taken verbatim)......Han + half or small + suki = opening...could this be the true translation and meaning of this form???

Master Chun encouraged us to add our own signature moves where they can be grafted into the form without interrupting the flow, in other words, make sure they fit in and stressed to always call the form by the name it's creator originally gave to it out of respect even though it has been altered - Joe


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## Carol (Feb 16, 2007)

Welcome back to Martial Talk, Professor Shuras.


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## Joe Shuras (Feb 16, 2007)

Carol Kaur said:


> Welcome back to Martial Talk, Professor Shuras.


 
Thank you very much, Carol.


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## marlon (Feb 17, 2007)

Joe Shuras said:


> Marlon, I'll tell you what, below I'll will post a correspodence I had with Master Chun Jr. on the form and then I will give you my perspective.
> 
> Dear Shihan Shuras,I've received your e-mail from my student Brian, I'm using my wife's computerso I can try to answer your question. This way I can explain a few thingsabout your question.First, I'll let you know that at the GOE2 I met Shihan James and Chamberlainthat also were students of the late Nick Cerio. They asked the same questionabout our Hansuki, so what I did I had my student Jacob Goetz who alsotrained under my father, do 10 moves of the Hansuki. The reason I had him doonly 10 moves, was because I knew the 2 gentleman that I just met wasn'tgoing to recognize our moves. Because, there are different versions andspellings. When Jacob was done Shihan Chamberlain looked down and shook hishead and than looked up at and said," that's not how we do it". So I tried tocomfort him by telling him that if Nick Cerio taught it another way don'tfeel bad about it. We have to remember one important thing in our Kenpo/Kempoworld! Our teachers had their own version or vision as their teachers. LikeI'm telling many of you that knows the Hansuki or Honsuki this form is thelinage to our teachers and our roots... God bless our Kenpo/Kempo fathersthat brought this art as it suppose to be. I hope that you will also teachanother side of this form. We are creators of this art. This form shouldhave more moves in it so that whoever teaches it can show our roots...So Shihan Shuras as you will get to know me and what the relationship I hadwith the 2 most important people that loved so dearly and what they taughtme, is always going to be with me until I leave this world. Also our blackbelts were taught forms that they should know for promotion only to become ablack belt. And there are some of them that weren't taught the Hansuki form.I will keep my promise to the Prof. and my father that the chosen ones willbe the only ones taught this form...I will close for now and I hope to hear from you again, we are Kenpo/Kempofamily by roots of Professor William K.S. Chow...Aloha,Master Bill Chun,Jr.GSJK/DSKK
> 
> ...


 

I thank you Prof.Shuras and  thank you to master Chun jr. for an incredible answer.
With deep respect,
marlon


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## Joe Shuras (Feb 17, 2007)

You're welcome, Marlon. If you ever have a chance to meet Master Bill Chun Jr. possibly a seminar, do it, you will be very impressed not only with his knowledge and abilities but his character, as you already have a head's up on which was reflected in that e-mail. I've been to three seminars plus he represented his father at the Nick Cerio Legacy Memorial in Massachusetts - Joe


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## marlon (Feb 17, 2007)

Joe Shuras said:


> You're welcome, Marlon. If you ever have a chance to meet Master Bill Chun Jr. possibly a seminar, do it, you will be very impressed not only with his knowledge and abilities but his character, as you already have a head's up on which was reflected in that e-mail. I've been to three seminars plus he represented his father at the Nick Cerio Legacy Memorial in Massachusetts - Joe


 
I met the man,all too briefly, recently at a seminar.  His energy is high and his passion for kempo and teaching are extrordinary.  Unfortuneately, it was not a formal introduction nor did i manage to speak with him about kempo at all, and i feel there was a lot he taught and wanted to teach but had not the time.  perhaps, some time in the futur.

Respectfully,
Marlon


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## Joe Shuras (Feb 18, 2007)

Marlon, a few more things about Hansuki. In the original Villari version there was the the grabbing the gi (of course, shirt/jacket for the street) and pulling the attacker into the punch. I have read this was a favorite of Chow's. This, as you know is in the beginning of the form, after the breathing exercise as you face 9 o'clock and then you turn to 3 o'clock and do it mirror image. Also another favorite was striking and grabbing the throat area (initially using what we call the tiger mouth hand strike) and then pulling/ripping back into a reverse punch w/ the opposite hand. Both these techniques are found in Villari's Honsuki. The grabbing and pulling into a punch is also found in SKK #3 combination (a Cerio modification after training w/ Chow/Chun). In Nick Cerio's Kenpo, this technique also shows up in 'Conquering Shield' and at the end of Circle of the Leopard.

I also understand the double punching (front punches and hammers) and striking (poison hand strikes) sequence from a horse stance, moving up the centerline to the head multiple times in the SKK version came from Chow's teachings.

Here is a short excerpt from post #132 on the Kara Ho thread by Peter Teymourez: "Hansuki is a beautiful and challenging form. The Shaolin Kempo's version is different but close enough. Its signature, is rapid fire strikes....." 

I have reached the conclusion that the SKK version is not incomplete or watered down or wrong, it's simply was modified to fit a particular instructors' perspective for his system, but still largely based on the teaching concepts of Prof. Chow & Bill Chun Sr. I was with Master Bill Chun Jr. when Villari's Honsuki, not the NCK version, was peformed for him and you read his positive e-mail on how he feels about any variations of the form. The only thing he does insist on is that you pay homage to the form's creator by keeping the name 'Hansuki' despite your interpretations/modifications. I know from past posts on the Kara Ho thread some may not agree and feel if you alter the form, you should also change the name and that's their perrogative. I'm just relating what Master Chun told me. I'm sure GGM. Ralph Castro has variations of the original also.

Marlon, here's something I cut and pasted below that I don't get at all. In all due respect to Sam Kuoha of Kara Ho Kempo, there is no way Hansuki was a form from James Mitose, I can't see how Chow could have said that, it must be a mistake. I think this goes without saying, just ask Bill Chun Jr. Naihanchi, yes, of course, that was a form Mitose taught. Besides, just look at the form, it looks like nothing that could have come from Mitose's curriculum, nor did I ever hear it did. I was always told it represented the Chow/Chun connection. See below an excerpt from post #221 of the Kara Ho thread:

#*221* 

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 06-30-2004, 05:50 PM 
gmkuoha





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Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 87 





 

*Re: Kara-Ho Kenpo?* 
Quote:
Originally Posted by *Mark L* 
_GM Kuoha,_​ 
_What forms are the basis of Kara-Ho, and what is there origin?_​ 
The only things that could be considered as forms that the Kara-Ho Kempo System had in the 50-70's was Professor Chow's linear techniques. In the 50's to the mid 70's, Professor said that he did use the Hansuki Form and the Nanhuchi Form but these were all derivitive of the Mitosi System.​


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## marlon (Feb 18, 2007)

Prof.Shuras,
thanks and keep it coming!!  
Should you ever add sweeps and elbows to your hansuki i would love to see it.  Myself, i do not feel anywhere qualified enough to consider this.  I did get a technique from a Villari seminar that started like 42 but then pulled into an uppercut spun into an elbow strike and a sweep then hasd a very Chow like finish coplete with tiger mouth to the throat and palm to the head to counter balance the rip out...might look good in the form somewhere...

I have communicated several times with GM K and he is a very sincere man. He has always said that Prof.Chow did not use forms. i believe the commnet was simply not being precise about it because he knows that it was created by master Chun Sr.
be well
marlon


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## dianhsuhe (Feb 18, 2007)

Do you guys have a question regarding Kara-Ho?


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## Joe Shuras (Feb 20, 2007)

Marlon, yes, I grafted an elbow and forearm into SKK's Hansuki from what I saw Master Chun Jr. do when he was in Massachusetts. To paraphrase a little but this was the gist, he told me if I wished to add anything, a signature move or the forearm and elbow that I could put it at the end or simply splice or graft it in somewhere so it doesn't interrupt the flow of the form. As far as the sweeps go, some of the original footwork, imho, can be already interpreted as sweeps.

Dianshuhe, not really, just that in a past post Gm. Kuoha stated the following: 
"The only things that could be considered as forms that the Kara-Ho Kempo System had in the 50-70's was Professor Chow's linear techniques. In the 50's to the mid 70's, Professor said that he did use the Hansuki Form and the Nanhuchi Form but these were all derivitive of the Mitosi System."

Respectfully, our feelings are that he must have been mistaken that Prof. Chow had stated that because Hansuki is a form Master Bill Chun Sr. put together under the supervision and approval of Prof. Chow, nothing to do with James Mitose or derived from James Mitose's system. Hansuki originated in Goshinjitsu Kai Chinese Kempo-the Chow/Chun connection  and then was passed to Ralph Castro and Nick Cerio. Nick in turn passed it on to his brother Frank who passed it on to Fred Villari. Joe​


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## marlon (Feb 20, 2007)

Prof. Shuras,
i would love to see it some time.  Footwork can be interpreted in so many ways when you look at it with an open mind and good visualization...thanks for the reminder
be well

Respectfully,
Marlon


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