# Hey How fast can you choke somebody out?



## SolidTiger (Jul 7, 2002)

I believe anything is possible will maybe not anything, but 
I know you can be knocked out with a single punch. You know
the chin, temple etc. So to cut off someone air supply or circlelation to someone brain could make you fall out for 15 to 
20 seconds...

Thank you

SolidTiger

I never withness someone being choke out in 2 seconds the fastest I ever seen was about 6 seconds.


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## jeffbeish (Jul 7, 2002)

3 seconds, if applied correctly. To take longer is cruel and inhuman punishment


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## nathan_sau (Jul 7, 2002)

The fastest i have choked someone out is in about 10 seconds, the prick deserved to suffer more but thats just the way it happened...


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## GouRonin (Jul 7, 2002)

I know of a Judoka who says that he had a guy tell him that he was out while in the air diuring a choke/throw.

I also know a Judoka who I can't and many others can't choke out with a tornaquet. It's just something about the way he is.


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## Kempojujutsu (Jul 7, 2002)

In general I believe three to four seconds for a choke. Give or take a sec or two. One variable is if the guy knows how to breathe out during the choke or not. If he doesn't he will be out very quickly. If he knows to breathe out and constrict his neck. It maybe 10 or 15 seconds. I have had people put a choke on me and with just the breathing gone 10 seconds or better.
Bob:asian:


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## arnisador (Jul 7, 2002)

A couple of seconds it isn't unreasonable for a strangle.


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## jeffbeish (Jul 7, 2002)

> _Originally posted by GouRonin _
> 
> *I know of a Judoka who says that he had a guy tell him that he was out while in the air diuring a choke/throw.
> 
> I also know a Judoka who I can't and many others can't choke out with a tornaquet. It's just something about the way he is. *



throw against a white belt! Somehow my right foot slipped in some sweat so I stopped entry, then the guy got me into a perfect choke and I was out before I hit the mat! "Wow," I said looking up at the referee, "where the hell am I?" 

I have seen people apply one of those stand up twisting, windup type chokes on someone and they too were out before they hit the mat. If both arteries are cut off it puts one right to sleep (nittyinight). :rofl:


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## jeffbeish (Jul 7, 2002)

> _Originally posted by GouRonin _
> 
> *I know of a Judoka who says that he had a guy tell him that he was out while in the air diuring a choke/throw.
> 
> I also know a Judoka who I can't and many others can't choke out with a tornaquet. It's just something about the way he is. *



The technique for effectively choking some is to arrange their neck in such a way that the carotid artery protrudes out from the (long name) muscles and then the Judogi lapel cuts off blood flow to the brain.  We use several metods or technuques with vartiations to accomplish th is.


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## jeffbeish (Jul 7, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Kempojujutsu _
> 
> *In general I believe three to four seconds for a choke. Give or take a sec or two. One variable is if the guy knows how to breathe out during the choke or not. If he doesn't he will be out very quickly. If he knows to breathe out and constrict his neck. It maybe 10 or 15 seconds. I have had people put a choke on me and with just the breathing gone 10 seconds or better.
> Bob:asian: *



There are several methods to excape a choke.  Mainly you need to unwrap yourself into or away from the force. Say that tori has your neck bent over and has your lapel up against the artery, then you must unwind in the opposite direction the lapel is forcing up against the artery.  Man, this is difficult to type.   For every attacking technuque there is an excape or dfense against it.


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## jeffbeish (Jul 7, 2002)

The object to any newaza, i.e., hold-downs, chokes, arm bars, etc., it to force your opponent to resist against the force you apply.  In the case of a choke the first action is to apply force to the opposite side of the neck from the artery that you intend to cut off the blood.    By forcing the opponent to bend his neck into your head, then his artery will protrude on the other side of his neck. You simply apply the wrapping up of his lapel against the artery.   So, two forces are acting on the opponent and the natural reaction for uki to do is resist these two forces  therefore making things worse for uki.  It makes the artery stick out just that more.  You could even cut off the artery with the thumb and forefinger, if the rules permitted that   :angel:   

So first, one must learn to relax when a choke is applied to them and then to not resist.  Next one must unwind their neck and releave the pressure against the artery or relieve the force of your lapel from that artery and then to remove the force from the opposite side.  Its not tricky or difficult  just a matter of training.

Take the case of kesagatame (not a choke).  Toris job in this hold down is to wrap uki up with the proper technique so that ukis lungs are restricted, as well as being held down for the required time limit.  This accomplishes the total osaikomi technique  one, to restrict uki from moving around too much on the mat (total control) and -- two, to disable his ability to breath, therefore to not allow him to gain enough strength to get up!  Escapes from hold-downs are also taught.  We apply the same thought processes to chokes or escaping from chokes or hold-downs as we do in standing Judo techniques  first off balance, then entry, and execution.  In the case of escaping its the same thing.

Speaking of standup-chokes have you ever seen a standing arm bar?  George Harris did it a few times in some if his big AAU wins back in the twilight-zone time.  Thats in the old days for you young wipper- snappers


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## theneuhauser (Jul 7, 2002)

i think i saw gracie do the standing armbar in an old ufc thing. i was amazed, he was mounted and he grapped the opponents strike, twisted his body over and stood the guy up into an armlock using his knee to apply the pressure and the guy tapped, it was awesome!!! gracie was on his face and the opponent was standing up over him, tapping out. wow.


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## GouRonin (Jul 7, 2002)

Kinda like sticking your hand in a hole of a log only to find it stuck in the bees nest.


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## jeffbeish (Jul 7, 2002)

It's more like sticking you arm into a log hole and grabbing hold of the tongue of  brown bear 

We used to teach self-defense measures that included standing arm bars.  A favorite technique was when someone grabbed you by the collar or lapel.  The trick was to lock their hand down against your shoulder or upper chest near over your collarbone with your chin.  Then with the right hand grab the opponents wrist and twist their arms counter clockwise until it was locked.  Then all hell could break loose, including striking upward right beyond their elbow (breaking the arm there ) or just using the left hand to lock the arm upward until they cried. Watch out for the knee to the mid-section, so you must twist into the lock.

As my atami sensei would say, Oh-so, joto waza, Jeff-san!  :asian:

You can also go to another position if they begin to cry too much and pull them off balance to  the side and lock the arm downward. Oh yes, it hurts (etai is the word in Japanese).  Not sure that is the correct spelling.


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## theneuhauser (Jul 7, 2002)

> As my atami sensei would say, Oh-so, joto waza, Jeff-san!



jeff if i had a nickel for every time someone told me that...


well i would be broke, ive never heard that before.:shrug:


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## SolidTiger (Jul 7, 2002)

It do not matter how many times you hear the same thing
If you don't learn from it, because you will keep making the
same mistake.

I think that the brain panic when it can't think, and it certainly
can't think we the air supply and blood flow is being cut off.

Thank you

Solid tiger


wow choking somebody out is really burtal, but it's entertaining.


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## jeffbeish (Jul 7, 2002)

> _Originally posted by theneuhauser _
> 
> *
> 
> ...



It is a metaphore.  English for "joto" is okay or close to it.

I haven't heard it in years. The last time is in March when I was in Japan, but this time of was with a bunch of astronomers.


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## Cthulhu (Jul 7, 2002)

From my experience, it's about 2 to 3 seconds to get someone 'out on their feet' and about 10+ seconds to get them to the point they can't support themselves.

This is just my limited experience.  Your mileage may vary 

Cthulhu


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## jeffbeish (Jul 7, 2002)

> _Originally posted by SolidTiger _
> 
> *It do not matter how many times you hear the same thing
> If you don't learn from it, because you will keep making the
> ...



It's like fainting. Waking up is a shock to the system.


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## jeffbeish (Jul 7, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Cthulhu _
> 
> *From my experience, it's about 2 to 3 seconds to get someone 'out on their feet' and about 10+ seconds to get them to the point they can't support themselves.
> 
> ...



Like I said before if you can cut off one of the the cartid arteries they will go out pretty fast -- two or three seconds.  Both sides then is about the same time period, but it is harder to get both sides effectively.  

When in contest it is not always possible to do it perfectly, but when a bunch of yudansha contest you might see most anything -- especially in the days I lived in Japan.   I don't think I ever saw someone apply a choking technique that the opponent was not gone in a matter of a few seconds. Most of the time if you couldn't do it right then you went to something else right away.

Judo players are also vain, in that they would rather show of their takuiwaza than fool around with something like chokes or arm bars.  However, they are very effective and can be used in street situations easier than say harai goshi


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## SolidTiger (Jul 7, 2002)

yes that's what I think that the brain goes in shock and says to itself what's going on, because if the brain knew what was happening that person would not be getting chokeout.

Thank you all for your insight

SolidTiger

"When a snake eats a rat the rat is thinking how I get myself into this"


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## chufeng (Jul 7, 2002)

That's like asking the owl how many licks it takes to get to the tootsie roll center of a tootsie pop...

:asian:
chufeng


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## SolidTiger (Jul 7, 2002)

I've read  that when you choke someone out they still have
air in there body. It's just the stopping of air and blood flow
that makes a person fall out.

Thank You 

SolidTiger

"Just because you don't know the answer does not mean it's not an answer"


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