# Feedback on Opening a school



## Bob Hubbard (Dec 3, 2001)

How about sparring for kids?  My own experiences with my nephew and a friends kid (both in the 7-10 range)  show a lack of control.  Example, while doing light stick work my nephew got frustrated, and when my back was turned cracked me full out across the shoulders.  Needless to say, he no longer has access to the sticks.  I can see in a class situation some risks.  How do you handle them?
:asian:


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## Bob Hubbard (Dec 3, 2001)

Gou,
  You're probably right.... he does tend to have very little if any respect for anyone.  He's a good kid, just not being raised too well.  He lost the work outs with me, access to my PC games, and the karate class he was supposed to be enrolled in has been "delayed" until he can learn to behave.  Might not be the most effective, but its the best I can do.

wongfeihung,
  Lotta good points in there.  Am gonna have to reread it later when my heads clearer.  

:asian:


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## GouRonin (Dec 3, 2001)

Dude, some people need to be shown what respect means. Your nephew cracking you on the back means he's got zilch in the way of respect for you. Man, what a great chance to explain it to him. I don't mean beat him senseless but it would be a good way to explain and enforce the concepts. Taking the sticks away just means he got what he wanted from his frustration.

But then again, whadda I know?


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## GouRonin (Dec 3, 2001)

I remember the first time I was with my first boxing coach and wasn't showing some respect. I was pulling cheap tricks etc and after he got tired of it he laid me low. Respect is earned and sometimes it's a painful price.
:asian:


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## Cthulhu (Dec 4, 2001)

Moved thread from 'General' to this forum.

Cthulhu


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## IFAJKD (Dec 2, 2001)

I have operated Innovative Fighting Arts for about 5 years now. Much of my focus has been for adults and Intensive Personal Training Programs. (people come to train here for one and two days) I also taught mixed arts classes weekly. I am now obtaining a 5400 square foot facility that will allow me to have a permanent ring, a permanent matted area for ground fighting and a training floor for the remaining stand up mixed arts training and weaponry. My question is this:::
I don't want to make too many mistakes as I begin this. I am going to start a kids class as well as an NHB class. I would like to have peoples do's and don'ts to get things going.
advertising, ???
class times ???
Fees ???
collections ???
etc, etc, etc, including things I never thought to ask. You know, the "I wish I would have known that back then."


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## IFAJKD (Dec 2, 2001)

Travis: Thanks for this feedback. It is exactly what I am seeking. I have a background as a family therapist and have worked with many different kinds of people. I enjoy the interaction that comes with teaching kids but have really focused on adults until now. It is your experience and that of others however I want to rely on. Thanks again


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## IFAJKD (Dec 3, 2001)

This is really great stuff. My adventure has come on the back of my Instructor. I am certified under Paul Vunak and teach JKD and Filipino martial arts with a strong emphasis on groundfighting, Muay Thai and weapons. Much of this I will Not teach kids but also much of it goes very well for them. As you may know, Vunak has no ranking as such within his system. Most don't. He is also in the middle of opening up his school as opposed to the way he has taught (IPTP) We seem to be doing this at the same time. Paul and I have talked at this for some time and he too will be establishing a ranking system. Mine will be as close to his as humanly possible. I also have a BB in TKD and although I wish not to focus on teaching JUSTsystem I will derive many kicking and drilling techniques from it for the kids class. Yeah I know they love the spin kicks...What other ranking system ideas do you have ? The uniforms will not be traditional but will rather be more of a JKD nature, I want to make them consistent. ie black sweat pants, white school T-Shirt, tennis shoes.  I WOULD ALSO APPRECIATE TO HEAR FROM AND FMA PEOPLE ABOUT TEACHING KIDS ESCRIMA.  Such a great tool and most kids learn so quickly and easily. To be honest I am afraid of scaring off some parents. ???:ninja:


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## IFAJKD (Dec 3, 2001)

I'm Lovin it. I have trained in MA for about 28 years or so and I never get tired of it. This new mission is very exciting to me. Kinda rejuvinates me in so many ways. I have always taught extremely combative arts and Pauls methods of drilling are very dynamic. The adults that come in have easily gotten addicted. I have also attracted mostly other BB. I really want to broaden all of it to get to the entire spectrum of clients. As far as children, I have taught only a handful and thoroughly, only my son (now 16) I have enjoyed it but I have to change significantly, what I do for them. I am very excited about it. Thanks again for all the input. Don't worry about keyboard run on.....If you get some time, please add more. Selfish learning for me.
Jim


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## wongfeihung (Dec 2, 2001)

A bit from my 20+ years experience with kid's classes.

Advertise in your local paper. Try demos at local youth events like a county fair or a scout troup meet. Put up flyers. Contact the local schools and offer a free 4 week after-school program. Build a base and then go from there.

Emphasize communication, cooperation, respect, safety and confidence. Most parents aren't too concerned with the SD aspects, for good reason. Emphasize peaceful resolution to schoolyard conflicts, and awareness and strategies to avoid more serious problems (aka, the bad adult). Your approach may vary.

Class times: Saturday mornings are a particularly great slot for our school. We hold a beginner's class from 9:30-10:30am and an advanced class (usually 1 year experience or more) from 10:30-11:30am. Any slot after-school on the early side should work too. Breaking groups up into advanced and beginner makes things much more productive with the kids.

Charge what you need to, dependant on what the local economy can support, your overhead and your personal needs. 1, 3 and 6 month rates seem to work well. Don't forget liability insurance and signed liability releases.

Other tips:
- set a controled tone from the beginning. Have as much help there as possible.
- emphasize consistency in training.
- balance serious training and fun, laughter and sweat, creativity and discipline. This is by *far* the most difficult aspect.
- include readings in your curriculum. 
- expect the common misconceptions about the Arts from your kids: that MA is physical, flashy and violent. Work from an approach to prove that MA is mental, humble and non-violent and you should be okay. We have a lot of work to do in order to undue Hollywood's damage.
- with kids, I use a 75/25 critiquing model: 75% positive encouragement and 25% corrections. It varies according to the child, naturally <G>.
- class pacing is critical with youths, it's important to teach patience and concentration but it's also important to keep things moving. See my balance comment above.
- our school won't start kids until 7 years old. If a 6 year old has exceptional concentration, we may allow them to join. One frequently distracting student can make the whole class much more difficult to manage. Some Dojos start much earlier, FYI.

Working with kids is always a challenge to do well, much more so than adults, IMO. But please know that you are taking on very important work -- work that can be lucrative and highly rewarding, as well as an important function within your community. I wish you the best!

- Travis
for an outline of our kid's program philosophy,
http://www.jrroy.com/programs.html


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## wongfeihung (Dec 3, 2001)

IFAJKD, you're more than welcome. Anything I can do to help, just let me know. And since I'm a blabbermouth when it comes to this stuff, here are some more things I've found useful.

- I intersperse basics with the warm-ups, that way they don't get restless by standing in line throwing techniques out of basic stances. Try to "trick 'em" into working basics in random ways that don't come across like a grind. But of course, grinding out basics can teach a lot about self-control, concentration, etc. Basically, the more tools you have in your toolbox, the better.
- I try to save the flashy or fun stuff until the end of class, kind of like a reward. They will LOVE jumping kicks, turning and spinning kicks/punches, Aikido rolls, obstacle courses, etc. 
- They also like partner work but you'll find that you have to keep the techniques simpler than you might think. It seems that distancing is the major stumbling block for youth beginners in a partnered setting -- figure out a way to get them to understand distance quickly and your life will be easier. I work it off of focus pad techniques, having the pad holder stay stationary and placing the distancing burden on the technique-thrower -- this seems to sink-or-swim them into figuring distance out. But of course, put the pad down and it all may go out the window! 
- Jumping and spinning techniques are appropriate for kids; it teaches kinesthetic awareness, coordination, explosiveness and overall athleticism. Like I said before, I personally try to stay away from too much flashy stuff, but it's an important tool.
- kids love to hit stuff, but remember that wrapping young hands for bagwork is even more crucial than our oldtimer hands <G>. With their limited power, regular sparring gloves seems to do a pretty good job of keeping the impact down with bags. Limiting their striking to palms, elbows and kicks/knees requires no worries with bag work, just let them have at it.
- Go nuts with focus pads, they never tire of it. Ditto for body shields and kicks.
- We work kiais from the word "NO!" at first. Even the most timid kid likes to yell "NO"!! Helping kids find their voice is important.
- establish a ranking system if your art doesn't have one, it's a critical tool for the young ones. We withold white belt until one month of training and give a stripe when they learn their techniques but before they test for next rank. The more rewards, the better.

I think you'll find that a lot of things that apply to adults apply to youth training too. The approach has to be a little different and you have to have more back-up plans if things are getting away from you or they're getting restless or lethargic or fill-in-the-blank. The kids will ALWAYS challenge you! Just wait until your first 7 year old asks what a "groin" is, big giggles coming your way <G>.

Once you build a base of experienced children your program will coast a lot more because the beginners will have senior students to emulate.

Well, as some would say, "take what you like and discard the rest". Feel free to ask questions if you have any, I'll talk anyone's ear off about training modalities and instruction. Maybe some others will add stuff too.

My best,
Travis


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## wongfeihung (Dec 3, 2001)

IFAJKD,

You're lucky that you have your teacher to brainstorm with while you both open schools. Use each other as a resource. Tear it all down to the basic essentials, decide what your central tennets are going to be, then build your curriculum around those themes. Your adult program and your kid's program will be similar but different. 

Adults seem to seek a) exercise, b) a social hobby, c) confidence/self-esteem and d) self-defense, more or less in that order, for the majority of your potential market. If combat-style and strict SD has been your focus, that's fine, it will serve you well, and there is a (small) market for that type of training. But your average citizen wants a safe workout that's fun, challenging, different from the gym grind, and interesting. Self-defense is a great bonus. I'm *not* suggesting a watered down Art, rather a broad focus dependant on your client's needs. Be as true to your Art as you are flexible to the world that demands it.

Retirees are an important population if you decide to pick up an internal Art at some point. Your JKD and FMA will work well with a lot of this age group too. But be aware that the same great challenging workout for a 28 year old may well injur an untrained 57 year old. The social aspect is important with this group since they usually have free-time and want to enjoy it (as they should!). T'ai Chi or Chi Gung are great arts for all ages and seem paticularly attractive with the older folks. I assume you're going to be at this for awhile, so that's sort of something to consider down the road.   

Parents want their kids to gain a) confidence/self-esteem, b) self-discipline, c)control, d)respect (for themselves, from their peers, and for their parents), e) communication skills, f) social time, g) controlability, h)exercise and i) self-defense, more or less in that order. Keep your office door open for talking about school and home issues. 

Kids will want a) fun. That's the easy one! Working in the other demands in an effective and balanced way is the challenge. The kids will give you so much energy, though, I think you're really going to like working with them.

We save weapons until brown belt (usually 4+ years from starting, and about 4 away from black belt), that takes care of the parents getting nervous about weapons. I know some people do teach kids escrima/arnis/kali with canes, I hope they chime in with some advice.

About ranking, in our Karate system we use 9 belts including white belt until Black. We typically test a hard worker with good attendance every 6 months until brown (5 belts up including white), then every year after brown until black (4 tests). First year of black is probationary with no stripe, then they are awarded first stripe with consistent practice. Further stripes are dependant on teaching commitment and commitment to personalizing their Art and usually come every 3-5 years. Now, ranking is *extremely* relative -- if you're starting from scratch, go with whatever system you and Paul brainstorm out, you have all the freedom in the world. Use as many stripes in between lower ranks as you would like, the more yardsticks for the kids, the better. Test for stripes on the lower ranks, test every 3 months, whatever. We charge a small testing fee.

We allow the kids to ask abour testing preparedness sparsely. Their focus, as you know from training in non-ranking systems which is the traditional way, should be on improving themselves, not their rank. Lower ranks always abide by higher ranks, but we stress that only the teacher is the teacher in class, don't let the kids do too much correcting of their peers regardless of rank, it can get out of hand quickly. Some Dojos allow no peer corrections until apprentice instructor is awarded. 

Your mileage may vary. As professor Presas always taught, the differences between approaches is a special thing.

Wow, I can ramble, eh? Funny, I'm a pretty quiet guy about most things -- this just gets me going. My best,

Travis


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