# A Question



## jkn75 (Sep 12, 2002)

I was at the Dr's office a while ago and I met someone who was in Judo. I have a couple of questions
1. What is a yodan?
2. What is "ichi ni san"? His card says Judo and then below it, it says this.

These are probably very simple but I study Korean arts so my Japanese is non-existant. Thank you.:asian:


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## Aegis (Sep 12, 2002)

Yodan is a 4th degree black belt, iirc, and ichi ni san is 1, 2, 3 in Japanese.....


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## LittleGirl (Sep 12, 2002)

eh... I thought Yondan was 4:th degree black belt...


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## Chiduce (Sep 12, 2002)

Yodan & Yondan both refer to 4th Degree Black Belt. It depends on what style uses the name to my understanding. I'am  explaining it in this manner not to become technical. Jujitsu uses the Yodan, while Shorin-Ryu uses Yondan. Kenpo  Karate uses Yondan, while some styles use Yodan for weapons ranking and Yondan for empty hand fighting ranking. 
Sincerely, in Humility;
Chiduce!


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## jeffbeish (Sep 13, 2002)

About the only difference I remember between yodan and yondan is that the former signifies the Juodka is "Judoshugyosha" that included 4th and 5th dans in a special classification wher they are generally accepted as instructors.  The "yon" just indicates 4th in the line of yudansha.  Some Judo people use it and some don't.  It is probably best to look at the actual characters on the license that defines the rank and you may find that the rank is a litle more than just 4th.  I think


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## LittleGirl (Sep 13, 2002)

Ah, now I see!
Thanks for the explanation
:asian: 

//Tess


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## jkn75 (Sep 13, 2002)

Thanks everyone for your help.


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## Aegis (Sep 13, 2002)

Japanese counting is odd. They use different systems depending on what they are counting. So, usually it is considered to be ichi, ni, san, yon, go, but if counting sword strikes, for example, it would become ich, ni, san, shi, go....



Very odd....


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## jkn75 (Sep 13, 2002)

Korean is similar. There are also different methods of counting depending on what it is you are counting. One of the methods is based on Chinese numbering. I'm not sure of all the applications and interchangeability because I guess there are quite a few.
:asian:


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## Jay Bell (Sep 13, 2002)

Aegis,

That's not entirely true.  In the primarily (used) Japanese number system, 4 and 7 both have references to death....a very bad mojo.

Shi / Shichi

So when regarding a person or rank, the alternate numbers are typically used.  Yon/Nana

Yodan and Yondan are the same...there is no basis for one being used over the other.


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## Qasim (Sep 13, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Aegis _
> 
> *Japanese counting is odd. They use different systems depending on what they are counting. So, usually it is considered to be ichi, ni, san, yon, go, but if counting sword strikes, for example, it would become ich, ni, san, shi, go....
> 
> ...



Nothing odd about it.  Not everyone speaks English so that being said, individual languages have different rules.  Spanish and Arabic for example distinguish between masculine and feminine when speaking about things and people.

We spell knife with a "k".  Here, hear, he're, all spelled differently, but pronounced EXACTLY the same.  If any language is odd, it's our mutual first language English.

It's called diversity.


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## Aegis (Sep 14, 2002)

He're is a new one to me....


But I see you're overall point.


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## jeffbeish (Sep 14, 2002)

Actually, there is a difference in the Kodokan Judo, yodan and yondan if one reads the Japanese characters on one's certificate.  The character is not "four" for "4" or "forth" for 4th, but a different character that differentiates between the mid-level dan grades.  A straight count is not always seen in Judo ranks and can be understood by shodan.   Sho does not mean 1. or 1st.  If one actually had such certificates then one would realize this.  

Judo ranks are not straight forward and have been modified over the years by different organizations and the Kodokan as time went by.  Even eh old certificates are different from newer ones in the way the caharacters are penned.


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