# freezing up.



## overunder (Jan 22, 2009)

hello. recently ive been in a pretty bad situation. and im not happy with the way i reacted.
 ill tell you about what happened, and im just wondering if anyones got any advice,because it would be GREATLY appreciated.
   recently, well about a couple of month ago, just after i turned 19, i was walking round the back of work to my car to relax for during my lunch break. 
i walk past a group of asian lads about my age, some older. there was 4 - 5 of them, and i looked at one and nodded as if to say hello. ( cause im a nice lad ) well any way i carried on walking, and one of them said to me . "who do you think you are looking at a paki like that?!"  i was baffled and turnd round and said "wat are you on about mate?" and then he came up in my face and started givig it the big one. "who do you think you are, talking to a paki like that" and stuff like that, me being me i tried to diffuse the situation, and calm it down and i was asking why he was starting trouble. and hen afte a short while of this, he headbutte me, i was totaly unxpecting this. and i stumbled back, i was sent reeling by this, and then he started laying in to me, i was very angry at this, but i dint hit him back because he had his friends with him, and what its like now days is that his mates would jump in and id have got beaten in to the ground my all of them and seriously injured, or stabbed or something, so i just took the beating, whilst saying get off me man. 
i wanted os bad to defend myself but i jsut kind of frozeup, i couldnt hit back. i was scared i admit it. but i aso feel i was quite brave as i didnt run away, but im dissapointed and annoyed i didnt fight back, feel kind of cowardly, even though i know im not, but has anyone got any advice, so next time i can just react and not just try and dodge punches, and then in the end just covering my head to defend it? sorry its so long i just kind of needed to get this offy chest, and ask for some advice,as i REALY dont want to freeze up like that ever again. 
i dont do any martil arts, but i play rugby, and i do wieghts, but i ahve no confidence in my abilty to defend my self. thanks alot for taking the time to read this.


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## Flying Crane (Jan 22, 2009)

Trying to diffuse the situation is a good thing.  Maybe instead of asking why he is trying to start trouble, which might be sort of twisted into a challenge by him, you might just say something like, "I was just saying hello, didn't mean to trouble anyone."  But it sounds to me like he was just looking for any excuse to start trouble and might have done so even if you had walked by and ignored them.

In that kind of situation, when he's got several friends and you know they are likely to surround you and jump in, it's time to run.  Don't give them a chance to surround you, don't stay and take the beating.  Just run the hell out of there, go towards a busy area where there are other people.  File a police report.  My nike-jutsu has certainly saved me more times than my fighting skills.  When there are several of them, that is a potentially very very dangerous situation.  Get the hell out, as quickly as possible.  No shame in that at all.  

Even if it was just one of them, he still might have a knife or something, and it's not worth sticking around for the fight.  Self-defense means you go home safe.  Unless he's got you backed into a corner with nowhere to go, just get out fast.


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## overunder (Jan 22, 2009)

thanks, i relay appreciate it


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## Frostbite (Jan 22, 2009)

Well, I'm not going to lie and said you did the right thing here but you could've done worse.  Attempting to defend yourself in this situation would've been a bad idea.  You were outnumbered 5 to 1.  Those are pretty bad odds even for the most skilled fighter.  Multiple attackers don't come at you one at a time like they do in the movies.  If they have any sense of what they're doing, they'll swarm you and you'll be overwhelmed.

As I see it, you did two things wrong here, both of which are closely related to each other.  You should never have let the guy get close enough to you to headbutt you in the first place.  Once he started to close the distance, you should've tried to put more distance between you.  Once he had you on the ground, you should've made every effort you could to get up and run like hell.  There's no shame in running away.  I'm sure they'll laugh and start puffing up their chests like they're a bunch of badasses but it's better to let them have their hollow victory than for you to risk getting injured or worse.


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## Flying Crane (Jan 22, 2009)

Just to add: if this guy has engaged you, you may need to respond before you can get away.  You may need to block, strike back, push him away, or whatever, to create that opening to run thru.  Don't forget that very real possibility.  This may provoke his friends, so you gotta be decisive with what you do, and then bolt.


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## Sukerkin (Jan 22, 2009)

Where are you from (roughly), *overunder*? Are we talking a densely populated urban area with significantly 'mixed' populations or a 'small town'?

I don't know of many places where that sort of violence will erupt, unprovoked, in the middle of the day, even in these tense times (not without 'substances' involved at any rate). 

If this happened near your place of work then it'd be a good idea to tell your workmates and your employer. Filing a police report wouldn't go amiss either. Then, if you see these fellows hanging around again, you can let people know without them thinking you're jumping at shadows.

Of course, it being a few months on, it seems to have been an isolated incident but it's worth bearing in mind that how you react after an altercation is as important as before and during.


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## Flying Crane (Jan 22, 2009)

Frostbite said:


> As I see it, you did two things wrong here, both of which are closely related to each other. *You should never have let the guy get close enough to you to headbutt you in the first place. Once he started to close the distance, you should've tried to put more distance between you. Once he had you on the ground, you should've made every effort you could to get up and run like hell.* There's no shame in running away. I'm sure they'll laugh and start puffing up their chests like they're a bunch of badasses but it's better to let them have their hollow victory than for you to risk getting injured or worse.


 

good points here.  Sometimes someone can close the distance before you realize it, but still a very good point.  Keep your awareness level up and don't let someone close the distance.


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## overunder (Jan 22, 2009)

im sorry but i forgot to add, i didnt let him get me to the floor. im a strong lad and i kept my feet, just too stubborn, and stupid to run away, and too frozen up to fight back, grh people who have to have there mates with them to beat someone up make me angry.
thanks alot though, great advice, and made me feel better about it.


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## overunder (Jan 22, 2009)

i come from england.
i live in a fairly large town, quite urban.
its filled with alot of "wannabe" gangsters.
around my age group 16 - 22 ish there is a fair amount of violence. it is quite a violent area, and thees a fair amount of mugins and beatings, recently near my area people have been stabbed and beaten. jsut by random people trying to prove stuff


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## Flying Crane (Jan 22, 2009)

overunder said:


> im sorry but i forgot to add, i didnt let him get me to the floor. im a strong lad and i kept my feet, just too stubborn, and stupid to run away, and too frozen up to fight back, grh people who have to have there mates with them to beat someone up make me angry.
> thanks alot though, great advice, and made me feel better about it.


 
I had a sort of similar incident, but with some differences, a few years back.

I was walking down the sidewalk in my neighborhood, going to the video rental store.  A scrawny, scabby-faced punk-*** kid started shadowing me, telling me how he and his friends were gonna jump me and pound me.  He kept following me down the block, and his friends hung back on the corner.  So all this while he just keeps following me, telling me how I'm about to get a pounding.  I kept him in sight, because I figured he must have a knife or something, so I kept enough distance that he couldn't reach me without first needing to close the distance.  The fact that I probably outweighed him by 30 or more pounds (I'm not a big guy either, I weigh about 160), made me think he MUST have some kind of weapon or something.  So I just kept my eye on him and kept on walking, thinking maybe he'll get tired of the game and go away.  

Finally he forced the engagement, adopted a sloppy muay thai stance and started throwing ineffectual kicks (he actually landed one across my belly and I barely felt it).  My brain was just clicking in to the fact that I was gonna have to do something to end this situation, when I looked up to see 4 or 5 of his friends running down the sidewalk towards us.  

Like I said earlier, letting them surround you is a very bad idea, and I could see this coming.  So I just bolted, and showed these kids that I could still outrun their sorry butts.

So I ran from this scrawny bastard and his posse, and I went home safe that night.


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## Sukerkin (Jan 22, 2009)

Hi *OU*; your unfortunate incident sounds like the sort of thing I'd expect around London or Manchester more than Bedfordshire. Just goes to show how the news shapes our perceptions doesn't it? 

I've spent quite some time in High Wycombe, which I think is quite nearby your locality and the area just didn't give off that sort of vibe at all (too much 'money' about for headbutts in the street to be tolerated, if you catch my meaning).

Next time I'm down there I'll notch up the alert status a tad, just in case.


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## overunder (Jan 22, 2009)

i dont unbderstand why poeple have to try and pick fights with poele all the time, its silly, ye i wiegh 11 stone, i think thats about 155 lbs im very light, butim stronger than most lads bigger than me. just need to learn to fight, or teach myself that i can smack someone back, and then have it off on my toes/ leg it. instead if freezing up. lol its mad how the brain works sometimes dont you think


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## Frostbite (Jan 22, 2009)

overunder said:


> i dont unbderstand why poeple have to try and pick fights with poele all the time



Well, he's probably trying to prove what a badass to his friends.  Or he's underendowed.  Or both. :ultracool


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## overunder (Jan 22, 2009)

ye, i know wjhat you mean. ye i live near luton. that is a rough place. 
well in dunstable its nto too bad,but its alot worse than from when i was alittle boy, used to be quite nice, but lately , with all the chavs, in there litte gangs theyrob people, beat people up, have gang fights.


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## Sukerkin (Jan 22, 2009)

From the weights you note, you're about the same size I was for a good part of my life. 

I'd say you'd be well served by having a look into taking a martial art of some sort, it doesn't really matter much what it is.

Why doesn't it matter? Because a large part of the defensive benfit of martial arts training is the sense of calm and confidence it gives you (not to be confused with cockyness). Bullies and even most petty criminals are on the look out for 'prey'. Look and move with the inner sense that you can look after yourself and those predators will look elsewhere.

I moved in some very rough circles in my time and the only occasion (in nearly thirty years) I've ever had to use what I train is the one time when, for no good reason, my decision making went haywire and I ended up cornered in an alley. 

All the other times when violence threatened, a calm attitude and a willingness to allow the 'big dog' his moment (without acting too much like a victim and so inviting attack) have allowed me to walk away. I wont say I haven't been a bit shaky on occasion (shotguns up the nose do that to you ) but I still walked away with no harm done to anyone.


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## overunder (Jan 22, 2009)

bloody hell a shotgun up the nose! scary man. 
i know this is probably a silly question, 
but,
how do you get that sense of confidence and calmness.
the only other time ive been in a pretty dangerous situation is when i was 17. i was finishing my lifeguard training and wlaking home with a fellow lifeguard in training, we were walking round the back of the liesure centre, cause thats where thepool we were training in was at.
we were walking round and a group of lads a couple my age and some abuot 14, 15 , there were probly about 7 of them. walked up behind us. and one of them took a swing fro my "mate" he was totaly oblivious to this and it was lucky i saw or he would have got smashed in the head by the person. i saw it coming and hit the peron arm out of the way. and we caried on walking, and they followed, but instead of punching my "mate" they started punching me, i turned round and said  stop it, and i noticed on had a hammer, an the other a big screwdriver. and i thought oh ****. well i turn round and keep walking, they try to trip me i stay up they keep hittng me in the head. ( not wiht the hammer) i was not hitting back cause i had no plan on geting smashed up wiht a hammer or stabbed with a screw driver, i carried on wlaking and they kept hitting me. and my mate ran off ! and left me, eventualy the group left me alone, but i thought i was gonna get stabbed that day


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## Sukerkin (Jan 22, 2009)

The sense of calmness grows over time.  It's not an instant fix I'm sorry to say.  

A few months in, some people start to think they know how to fight and begin to act like they're the cock-o-the-walk.  If they're lucky, they never get 'called' on that out in the real world and get the chance to learn what it is that they didn't know at that time - control of themselves.

That's the key as that is what allows you decide if you need to fight or not and is the thing that allows you to run and not let foolish ego stick your feet to the floor.

However, one of the first things I'd suggest from the sound of your recent past is to start thinking seriously about how you are placing yourself in the wrong place at the wrong time.  Good martial arts training is not just about the physical aspects of self defence but also the mental.  

Learning to 'read' a street and choosing to go by another route because you can see the potential trouble ahead on the way you were going will save you from more grief than any 'black belt'.


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## Flying Crane (Jan 22, 2009)

One big thing that has come clear to me in the years that I've been training is how truly horribly one person can damage another.  I don't want to get damaged like that, and neither to I want to damage someone else.  So I tend to aviod problems and I'm usually able to talk my way out when problems arise.  If I can't talk my way out, like I said, I can run.  If that's not an option, then I fight, and so far it hasn't really ever reached that point for me yet.


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## Nolerama (Jan 22, 2009)

OU, the advice everyone is giving you is solid. I'd like to mention not "giving" those thugs anything; in this case, your time.

When he made that comment, you should have ignored him and kept on walking. I know it's hard, but your ego could potentially be your worst enemy. Learn to ignore it in adverse situations like that. Having a good sense of your surroundings is very important, as well as maintaining your personal space.

You mentioned that you were scared. Of course you would be, your life was in danger. Fear is a good thing, once you can channel the sense of it and use it to keep your situational awareness sharp. So don't feel bad.

Playing rugby makes you an athlete, so that might have piqued your attackers' interest in you, due to insecurity issues. Athleticism is an integral part to effectively utilize martial skill. Looking into learning to defend yourself better is always an option. At the very least, it'll help you get over your beating.

However, any good instructor will tell you that in your particular situation, you should have known when to fold your cards, and take off running. 5 punks is a cowardly number stacked on one guy, but can certainly destroy one guy if he decides to fight back.

If you decide to down the martial art road, I wish you well on your journey.


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## overunder (Jan 22, 2009)

your deffonately right. i know the calmess and control is not an instant fix, and i will need to work on it, and practice it, and want to start a martial art. 
and you are also right bout the ego thing. i suppose deep down i do want to take down that group of idiots that think there tough men wi all there mates. but since the last incident a few months ago, i am more determined now to fight back. not for reputation and stuff like that, but it has relay nocked my confidence in myself, and i feel i need to find a way of getting that confidence back before i totaly lose it. do you know what i mean.  I WONT BE ABLE TO FIGHT BACK IF I NEED TOO, I WILL FREEZE UP AGAIN.  do you know what i mean. i know this sounds all rather silly, but what do you recomend? thanks for your patience


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## Flying Crane (Jan 22, 2009)

overunder said:


> your deffonately right. i know the calmess and control is not an instant fix, and i will need to work on it, and practice it, and want to start a martial art.
> and you are also right bout the ego thing. i suppose deep down i do want to take down that group of idiots that think there tough men wi all there mates. but since the last incident a few months ago, i am more determined now to fight back. not for reputation and stuff like that, but it has relay nocked my confidence in myself, and i feel i need to find a way of getting that confidence back before i totaly lose it. do you know what i mean. I WONT BE ABLE TO FIGHT BACK IF I NEED TOO, I WILL FREEZE UP AGAIN. do you know what i mean. i know this sounds all rather silly, but what do you recomend? thanks for your patience


 
well, you need to recognize that there is a difference between wanting to fight/wanting to take down guys like those punks, vs. wanting to be able to defend yourself IF YOU HAVE NO OTHER CHOICE.

Good martial training can give you the tools to defend yourself.  But you should always consider this to be a last option sort of thing.  Don't ever be in a hurry to engage in a fight, even if the other guy really "deserves" it or has it coming.  That road will eventually lead to your demise, even if you are initially successful with it.

Fighting just is not worth it.  Defend yourself if you MUST, escape if you CAN, but don't ever embrace violence.


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## overunder (Jan 22, 2009)

cheers.  i appeciate the advice


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## overunder (Jan 22, 2009)

flying crane. i know where your comeing from, i never look for fights. bu trouble does find me, i kow i need to be cleverer about how i move around and stuff like no walking silly places on my own and that. but i need to get passed the mental block of "i cant fight back, because i will freez up again"  do you know where im coming from?


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## Sukerkin (Jan 22, 2009)

Most of us who started training in our teens came in with the notion of wanting to learn how to fight, how to kick **** and take names.  It's part of the hormone tide that sweeps away our good sense for far too many years .

Once you get settled in to an art and have a couple of years dedicated training, or perhaps even earlier, you will learn a couple of things.  

One, it is really easy to do serious harm to someone - scarily so when it's by surprise.  

Two, because of One, it is very, very important to try and make sure you don't have to put yourself in the situations that will necessitate your doing so.

This means that you will gain the confidence in your ability to defend yourself should you need to but that very confidence (and the other things we've spoken of) will severely lessen the probability that you will ever have to.


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## Flying Crane (Jan 22, 2009)

overunder said:


> flying crane. i know where your comeing from, i never look for fights. bu trouble does find me, i kow i need to be cleverer about how i move around and stuff like no walking silly places on my own and that. but i need to get passed the mental block of "i cant fight back, because i will freez up again" do you know where im coming from?


 
I certainly do know where you are coming from, and there is nothing wrong with that.  Just don't confuse that with the idea that you need to be the one to dispense justice on the local thuggery.  That's all I'm getting at, just a word of caution.


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## Flying Crane (Jan 22, 2009)

Sukerkin said:


> Most of us who started training in our teens came in with the notion of wanting to learn how to fight, *how to kick **** and take names.*


 

ah, well, long ago I lost interest in the names...


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## Flying Crane (Jan 22, 2009)

Sukerkin said:


> Once you get settled in to an art and have a couple of years dedicated training, or perhaps even earlier, you will learn a couple of things.
> 
> One, it is really easy to do serious harm to someone - scarily so when it's by surprise.
> 
> ...


 
very very well said, complete agreement here.


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## Flying Crane (Jan 22, 2009)

Hey Mark,

I think I just gave you some gold, sir.  Am I right?


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## overunder (Jan 22, 2009)

thank you people for all your advice. it is very much appreciated.


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## Sukerkin (Jan 22, 2009)

. I bet *OU* will wonder the heck we're talking about now, *FC* .

I'm not sure. I've had a 'gold' pip for a while - has it changed shade {as the actress said to the bishop :lol:}? Your kind words were very well received, as it is they that truly matter :rei:.


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## Sukerkin (Jan 22, 2009)

overunder said:


> thank you people for all your advice. it is very much appreciated.


 
Always glad to help someone who wants to learn.


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## overunder (Jan 22, 2009)

sorry one more question and i will ask no more silly youthfull questions.
did how i react in the situation when i got beat, was i a coward for reacting like that?


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## Sukerkin (Jan 22, 2009)

Not at all.  

As we've intimated, we all think you should have run rather than stood once it became clear that he wasn't just going to clout you once or twice and leave it at that.  If the circumstances allowed it, the best place to have run would have been back to work where your mates would have been to help you out.

Something to note is that everyone makes bad calls.  I certainly have.  

When I was even younger than you, I did exactly the same thing.  Too proud to run but too overmatched to fight.  Luckily, I'm a lot older than you and some things were different back then.  

After they'd knocked me down for the third time or so and I kept getting back up, they let me be.  I like to think that the murderous look I was giving the lead protagonist had something to do with that but I reckon really I was just no 'fun' :lol:.

True cowardice is doing something morally reprehensible when you have the choice to do otherwise.  Running or refusing to fight insurmountable odds for no reason whatsoever is called something else - common sense.


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## Flying Crane (Jan 22, 2009)

Sukerkin said:


> . I bet *OU* will wonder the heck we're talking about now, *FC* .
> 
> I'm not sure. I've had a 'gold' pip for a while - has it changed shade {as the actress said to the bishop :lol:}? Your kind words were very well received, as it is they that truly matter :rei:.


 
Ah, my mistake then.  I sent you some respects, and suddenly I noticed the gold pip and couldn't remember if it was already there.

ah well, it's the thought that counts.


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## overunder (Jan 22, 2009)

thanks alot. you have made me feel alot better, and put my mind at rest. honestly thanks alot.


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## Flying Crane (Jan 22, 2009)

overunder said:


> sorry one more question and i will ask no more silly youthfull questions.
> did how i react in the situation when i got beat, was i a coward for reacting like that?


 

nope.

I've been training since 1984.  I've never had to truly defend myself yet.  And when I find myself in the middle of trouble brewing, I get this cold feeling in my guts and my legs go all gumby, and I start looking for the exit routes.  At those times I am thankful that my wife or someone else isn't with me, because then running may not be an option.  I've taken shots without giving them back, because I am very very reluctant to engage for the reasons I've listed earlier.  Lukily the shots I've taken have not been damaging to me.

It's a matter of seeing the bigger picture: violence isn't worth engaging in if you have any other options.  Getting home safe is more important.  Sometimes if you take a minor shot you can avoid further escalation or make good your escape if you don't retaliate.  Not that you would deliberately let yourself get hit, but sometimes if he manages to hit you and you aren't truly hurt, it's best to let it go.

Survival isn't cowardice.  Recognizing how terribly dangerous it can be to engage in a fight is just plain smart.  Those guys could have had knives, razors, clubs, and they could have ended your life right there.  Or they could have done it with their fists, 5-on-1.  You went home safe that night.  You weren't a coward, even if your ego got bruised.  But that'll heal and you will get over it and be wiser for it.


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## overunder (Jan 22, 2009)

cheers man, realy put my mind at ease.


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## mook jong man (Jan 22, 2009)

Overunder , I think that it may help you to read some books by the British author Geoff Thompson I am a big fan of his . He is reputed to have been in something like 4 hundred fights 

In his books he goes into a lot of depth in how to handle the adrenaline dump and things you should be doing in the pre fight stage like controlling the distance between you and your attacker with the use of a non threatening guard called " The Fence ".

Also make sure you join up to a reputable martial art school as soon as you possibly can so you can develop some self defence skills to back up your pre confrontation strategies .


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## overunder (Jan 22, 2009)

thanks mate, will have a look into the geoff thompson man. advice is apreciated


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## redantstyle (Jan 22, 2009)

i've been at ma since i was a tyke.  i grew up doing a tremendous amount of sparring, and got in quite a few street altercations as well, mostly in my teen years.  nothing too serious...

not quite so active these days, but at one point i was pretty serious about it, and i actually got decent at a few things. 

all in all, you will find that violence is not a very valuable skill.  it is highly overrated.   i can defend myself quite handily, but it is the absolute last option.  i would much rather defuse the situation or use teh Run Fu.

martial arts training provides many benefits,  the least of which is the ability to injure someone. 

regards.


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## overunder (Jan 22, 2009)

thanks mate, tis appreciated. run fu, thats quality! heard another one earlier nike jitsu. cheers, advice is much appreciated


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## girlbug2 (Jan 22, 2009)

Hi Overunder,

One of the recurring themes I have heard on this forum is the person who took up a martial art because they were attacked at some time and they wanted to learn to defend themselves should it ever happen again. Many blackbelts in fact started because they had been bullied as kids. That is part of my personal story as well. I was the easy target who got picked on in grade school, and I felt like a victim most of my life afterwards until just a few years ago. I swear bullies are cowards and they can smell our fear, they will only attack the "easy" targets.

I can understand wanting to be friendly and polite, but there is a point where one has to learn to start drawing lines. In hindsight the boys who attacked you had bad intentions from the start and were just looking for an excuse to jump you. What's needed is to develop that internal "radar" if you will that helps you pick up on that kind of vibe before anybody even said anything to you, so that you would have known to keep moving on and not answered them. Definitely do not let them start to surround you or let anybody get close enough for a headbutt. No shame in running, especially from five attackers!

A basic self defense course could get you started on situational awareness for this kind of thing, but a few tips:

Never step out into a public area before you have scanned your surroundings first. You must be aware of where every other person is before you proceed.

Also you must be aware of places where people could likely be hiding behind -- posts, building corners, etc. Get into the habit of walking the wide way around them so it's harder for somebody to jump out and surprise/grab you.

No "plugged in" in public -- you need all your senses, including hearing.

The confidence you asked about earlier is a byproduct of training for self defense situations. Seriously, since I started training it has had an amazing effect on my own self confidence. As a female I am even more vulnerable to attacks and it is good to know that I could fight if I was forced to. It is even better to know that I can intelligently avoid being forced to fight by employing my situational awareness and letting my posture and body language display my confidence.

Here's my shameless plug -- try Krav Maga. If there isn't a KM studio in your area, get some kind of training, anything, that will teach you practical self defense. And then, practice!


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## just2kicku (Jan 22, 2009)

Put your arms out, that is your personal space. If someone comes at you with aggression and invades your space you have the right to protect yourself. Don't let someone get that close to you. Keep your space, but when forced to protect your space strike hard and first. The eyes, throat, groin or knees are always a target I look for. If you are going to fight you need to drop the first guy fast, and hard to get him out of the equation. No one should be a punching bag for a bunch of thugs!


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## sgtmac_46 (Jan 23, 2009)

overunder said:


> hello. recently ive been in a pretty bad situation. and im not happy with the way i reacted.
> ill tell you about what happened, and im just wondering if anyones got any advice,because it would be GREATLY appreciated.
> recently, well about a couple of month ago, just after i turned 19, i was walking round the back of work to my car to relax for during my lunch break.
> i walk past a group of asian lads about my age, some older. there was 4 - 5 of them, and i looked at one and nodded as if to say hello. ( cause im a nice lad ) well any way i carried on walking, and one of them said to me . "who do you think you are looking at a paki like that?!"  i was baffled and turnd round and said "wat are you on about mate?" and then he came up in my face and started givig it the big one. "who do you think you are, talking to a paki like that" and stuff like that, me being me i tried to diffuse the situation, and calm it down and i was asking why he was starting trouble. and hen afte a short while of this, he headbutte me, i was totaly unxpecting this. and i stumbled back, i was sent reeling by this, and then he started laying in to me, i was very angry at this, but i dint hit him back because he had his friends with him, and what its like now days is that his mates would jump in and id have got beaten in to the ground my all of them and seriously injured, or stabbed or something, so i just took the beating, whilst saying get off me man.
> ...



Nothing wrong with trying to defuse the situation, but you need to recognize the classic setup for a SUCKER PUNCH, which was what the getting in your face deal was all about.......he was building his courage to assault you!

A better line would be to put your hands out and step back.....'I don't wanna fight, but you need to leave ME the **** alone!'  If he pushed the issue, i'd consider you perfectly justified in knocking the guy out and then running like hell until you could find 

1) An improvised weapon (some kind of club)
and
2) A spot where his buddies couldn't do anything but come at you one by one, and start swinging for the fences!

If you do rugby and weights, you're in pretty good shape, that's more than half the battle......hit a boxing gym a couple days a week and go from there.


Remember, when a guy starts out with that kind of 'What are YOU looking at!' provocation, he's WANTING you to try to tell him you didn't do anything wrong.....the BEST thing you can do is look him in the eye like HE owe's YOU money, call him on HIS rudeness, raise your voice slightly and tell him to leave you the hell alone, or ELSE!

NEVER let such a person close the gap to punching range without a response......if he's trying to get that close to you, with that kind of attitude, it's only so he can HIT you......understand and accept that, and if he gets in punching range.....PUNCH HIM FIRST!  (That's where the boxing comes in......if you like rugby, you'll like boxing. )


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## sgtmac_46 (Jan 23, 2009)

overunder said:


> sorry one more question and i will ask no more silly youthfull questions.
> did how i react in the situation when i got beat, was i a coward for reacting like that?



NOPE!  You just fell victim to the classic sucker punch (many of us have. )  You learned a hard but valuable lesson, and I suspect you'll know it when you see it again. 

Just hit the boxing (or whatever) gym and keep in your mind while you're working out HARD!


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## sgtmac_46 (Jan 23, 2009)

mook jong man said:


> Overunder , I think that it may help you to read some books by the British author Geoff Thompson I am a big fan of his . He is reputed to have been in something like 4 hundred fights
> 
> In his books he goes into a lot of depth in how to handle the adrenaline dump and things you should be doing in the pre fight stage like controlling the distance between you and your attacker with the use of a non threatening guard called " The Fence ".
> 
> Also make sure you join up to a reputable martial art school as soon as you possibly can so you can develop some self defence skills to back up your pre confrontation strategies .


Geoff Thompson IS the man!


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## sgtmac_46 (Jan 23, 2009)

redantstyle said:


> i've been at ma since i was a tyke.  i grew up doing a tremendous amount of sparring, and got in quite a few street altercations as well, mostly in my teen years.  nothing too serious...
> 
> not quite so active these days, but at one point i was pretty serious about it, and i actually got decent at a few things.
> 
> ...


 I'd have gotten in less fights if I could run faster! 

I run like the mummy!


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## overunder (Jan 23, 2009)

thanks alot sgtmac_46  . its just in a situation like that i get intimidated too easily, but im too proud to back down, and im not a coward, but i freeze like  deer in the headlights, i get immboilized by my own doubts about myself, and i cant seem to stop those thoughts, and they take hold, i know physically i can hold my own easily, im small and light but im strong. but i have very little confidence in myself. and plus i dont actualy like hurting people. 
its a bit messed up, but i relay need to overcome my self doubt but its so hard. i find myself walking round now hoping for someone to start a fight so i can act differently to how i did. its mad but its sent my brain a bit mad


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## just2kicku (Jan 23, 2009)

Overunder, there's solid advice and good sense here from everyone. I wish you all the luck in your search for a system that's right for you. Whatever martial art you pick, focus on the basics. It is your foundation for everything. You don't build a structure starting with the roof, you need a solid foundation first. A person with good basics is hard to beat. Learn SD and hopefully you'll never have to use it. Good luck, Joe


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## sgtmac_46 (Jan 23, 2009)

overunder said:


> thanks alot sgtmac_46  . its just in a situation like that i get intimidated too easily, but im too proud to back down, and im not a coward, but i freeze like  deer in the headlights, i get immboilized by my own doubts about myself, and i cant seem to stop those thoughts, and they take hold, i know physically i can hold my own easily, im small and light but im strong. but i have very little confidence in myself. and plus i dont actualy like hurting people.
> its a bit messed up, but i relay need to overcome my self doubt but its so hard. i find myself walking round now hoping for someone to start a fight so i can act differently to how i did. its mad but its sent my brain a bit mad


 That's a normal and human response.

I really do suggest the boxing.....for two reasons.....it IS very effective self-defense......AND, you'll get a chance to actually punch other people in a controlled environment which.......surprisingly enough, can make you a more confident and simultaneously more peaceful person.

You won't mind hurting other people if you need to, and be quite capable of doing it, but you won't walk around with something to prove to yourself either.

I think boxing is a valid first choice for someone already athletic like yourself looking to defend themselves.....and then add other arts from there.  But a man who knows how to throw a decent punch is ALWAYS formidable in a street fight. 

Boxing teaches you range, and you'll know exactly what to do if someone steps inside of yours!  And since boxers punch each other a lot, you'll know when someone is going to throw a punch, and usually see it coming long before it lands.


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## overunder (Jan 23, 2009)

thanks alot, for the advice sgtmac. there is thai boxing classes near my area. ive heard that is very good. i think i may start that, as i dont know any boxing clubs local to my area. whats your opinions on thai boxing or muay thai. 
thanks alot to everyones advice it is very much appreciated


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## sgtmac_46 (Jan 23, 2009)

overunder said:


> thanks alot, for the advice sgtmac. there is thai boxing classes near my area. ive heard that is very good. i think i may start that, as i dont know any boxing clubs local to my area. whats your opinions on thai boxing or muay thai.
> thanks alot to everyones advice it is very much appreciated



Muay Thai is EXCELLENT!  You'll learn the principles of standard boxing, how to throw a basic punch, along with how to throw effective kicks, knees and elbows.......basically it's a complete standup fighting art, and you'll spar a lot, which is IMPORTANT!

Basically everything I said about boxing applies to Muay Thai and then some.....it really is a pretty complete system of standup striking.  

And since you're a rugby and weight lifting kind of guy, you're probably well on your way to the kind of conditioning it demands.


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## overunder (Jan 23, 2009)

excelent. i will deffonately get myself down there. they do classes on monday and thursdays. i willonly be able to do it once a week, as thursday clashes with rugby training. do you think once a week is enough?


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## sgtmac_46 (Jan 23, 2009)

overunder said:


> excelent. i will deffonately get myself down there. they do classes on monday and thursdays. i willonly be able to do it once a week, as thursday clashes with rugby training. do you think once a week is enough?


 You just have to work hard when you're there....but to really get the most out of it i'd hang a bag somewhere and work out in my spare time throughout the week.....maybe 10 or 15 minutes here and there when you have a little down time.  It's a great cardio workout, and if you run or do some other form of cardio, you might throw in shadow boxing and bag work as a cardio workout to do double duty.......and a good jump rope is ALWAYS RECOMMENDED!

Get your instruction in class, and make sure to hit your bag and stretch throughout the rest of the week, and you'll make progress pretty quick.

The bottom line with boxing and muay thai is that there aren't hundreds upon hundreds of techniques, there's actually a few ways of throwing a punch, a few ways of throwing a kick, a couple ways of throwing knees and elbows......the trick comes in mastering those few techniques through practice and learning to apply them in sparring.  

You master the mechanics throw shadow boxing, bag training and pad drills (the bag training you can do on your own by hanging a bag somewhere convenient, and the shadow boxing drills you can do anywhere there is space).

Once you get a basic mastery, much of your class time will be pad drills and sparring, and once a week is adequate for sparring for what you're wanting it for.  

Since you're already do conditioning training for other sports anyway, you're already fighting a good portion of the battle.......fighting really isn't that removed from rugby......it's all about bodies slamming together!


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## Sukerkin (Jan 23, 2009)

It may be okay to get started on just one day a week but like any physical activity dependant on muscle memory, the more you practise, the more instinctive it becomes.

I used to do three sessions a week in my Lau days and practise every day besides.  If you 'take' to it, I think you'll soon find yourself making the time to train, as you would for any other activity that you enjoy and want to get better at.


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## sgtmac_46 (Jan 23, 2009)

Sukerkin said:


> It may be okay to get started on just one day a week but like any physical activity dependant on muscle memory, the more you practise, the more instinctive it becomes.
> 
> I used to do three sessions a week in my Lau days and practise every day besides.  If you 'take' to it, I think you'll soon find yourself making the time to train, as you would for any other activity that you enjoy and want to get better at.



EXACTLY!  My first thought was 'I doubt you'll be happy just going one day a week!'.....Muay Thai is addictive for folks who enjoy high impact activities......and a rugby guy certainly qualifies.


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## overunder (Jan 23, 2009)

thanks alot!  i will get my sorry **** down to that class this monday. cheers mate is very much appreciated


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## sgtmac_46 (Jan 23, 2009)

overunder said:


> thanks alot!  i will get my sorry **** down to that class this monday. cheers mate is very much appreciated


 Good luck and enjoy yourself!


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## overunder (Jan 23, 2009)

will do


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