# Anger and self-defense



## shesulsa (Mar 2, 2006)

Whenever I've struck something in anger - sheer, frustrated, blinding anger, I've always injured myself and I want to know how you folks feel about anger and whether it helps you or hinders you?


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## terryl965 (Mar 2, 2006)

Anger is the worst one could do you must stay calm and under control for proper power and techniques.
Terry


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## Lisa (Mar 2, 2006)

I voted that I didn't know.  Let me explain why.

There are times when I am anger and it fuels a fire within me, I have had to keep calm and focus.  I believe that anger has allowed me to perform better because I had to deal with it and focus harder on the task at hand.  On the other hand, I have also lost my patience and my self control when angry and not been able to perform to the best of my abilities.  I guess it is all dependent on the situation for me and how much I will allow myself to lose control of my feelings and emotions.


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## Andrew Green (Mar 2, 2006)

I think it depends on the person and there skill level.

Some people fight really well when they are angry, without that they have a hard time hitting with intent and bringing out aggression.  Other people can do this fine without anger and when they get angry they get sloppy.

Partially I think it has to do with experience, someone that doesn't know what they are doing and isn't used to hurting someone or having someone hurting them will overcome that when the anger kicks in, basically stop thinking and push in no matter what.  Much better odds for them winning then if fear kicks in and they hold back, flinch at everything and curl up when hit.


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## rutherford (Mar 2, 2006)

Anger can be a help, but only if I can keep from becoming tense.


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## Jonathan Randall (Mar 2, 2006)

Oops: on edit, I didn't _read_ the thread title. ... In Competition. However, my comment still stands as regards to self-defence. In competition, IMO, it has no place.

As others have stated, there needs to be a balance between anger, fear, and calmness. Some righteous anger to an unprovoked assault is helpful, IMO, provided it doesn't lead to sloppy technique and unthinking behavior, because most of us do not like to hit others with intent to harm (stop).


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## evenflow1121 (Mar 2, 2006)

I ve heard people say that they use anger in a positive way, I never have.  Everytime I have been angry I ve clouded myself, its a terrible feeling, you cant think straight, you start to think of every possible thing under the sun, and worse part about it is while practicing you may hurt someone that wasn't even the cause of your anger to begin with.  We are all going to become angry at some point in time in our lives, we cant stop it completely, you just have to fear what you can do to a person if you let yourself go.


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## Hand Sword (Mar 3, 2006)

I would say that it is ultimately a hinderance for me. Short term, you do get that boost of energy/ adrenaline to "fuel the fire" so to speak. But, I would say for me being "angry" means I'm out of control. This would only hurt in practice or competition. I'd keep practicing, keep getting it wrong, get more angry and so on.. Or, I would charge in, throw wildly, get hit in return more than if under control. I would rather approach the "angry" level, but, stop at "really intense" but focussed.


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## Drac (Mar 3, 2006)

shesulsa said:
			
		

> Whenever I've struck something in anger - sheer, frustrated, blinding anger, I've always injured myself


 
Same here...


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## MJS (Mar 3, 2006)

shesulsa said:
			
		

> Whenever I've struck something in anger - sheer, frustrated, blinding anger, I've always injured myself and I want to know how you folks feel about anger and whether it helps you or hinders you?


 
IMHO, anger is like fear.  If you can control it and use it to your advantage, it'll help you.  If you can't conrtol it, and you let it over take you, it'll be another enemy that you'll have to fight.

Mike


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## still learning (Mar 3, 2006)

Hello, Anger is a natural response for human beings. How we control it is by changing your response when things happen. This is a habit and habits can be change.

We learn anger from our parents/role models (how they react when things happen). If your parents gets mad and hit things...as a child you will learn this too!

Consider a Anger management class?

Kids who were hit by their parents will grow up to hit their children too...and there wifes/husband also..and anyone who gets them mad/anger.

What can you do for NOW? ...When you get mad/anger...breath deep, several times and say to your self...things happen...What can I do to make this better? No one is perfect and mistakes happens. Simile and find something funny to say!!! OK simile, say "I'm sorry...What can we do to make this better? .............Just one suggestion here....Aloha


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## still learning (Mar 3, 2006)

Hello, I will try to make this story short.

A Samurai went to a priest and ask " Is there a Heaven and Hell? and the priest said "you are a no good samurai" and started to say other bad things to the samurai. 

The samurai raise his sword to strike down the priest...and the priest said you have found "HELL"....and than the samurai look at the priest and put his sword away...the priest said " You have found " HEAVEN"......

Heaven and hell is within US...you can choose the response you want.

To be good or bad. Have you ever met people who do not get anger/mad? Why? because to learn to accept things will not always go right!

Go to any auto body repair shop and ask to get your car fix? and you will see a waiting list! Accidents happens all the time!!!! ...accept it! ....Aloha


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## MA-Caver (Mar 3, 2006)

My anger gets messy and loud when I have no specific direction for it. But if there is something/one to focus it upon then I can direct it with a good sense of control.


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## Bigshadow (Mar 3, 2006)

I never get angry enough to feel the need to lash out and strike something or someone.  I have never been pushed to that point, I have a high tolerance for frustration.


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## Xue Sheng (Mar 3, 2006)

Anger while I'm practicing hinders me.

Anger in real life confrontations can sometimes help.


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## Flying Crane (Mar 3, 2006)

I think that blinding uncontrolled rage could be a big hinderance, but anger that is focused on accomplishing an unpleasant but essential task (defending your life) could work in your favor.


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## TigerWoman (Mar 3, 2006)

When I was in my twenties, I had the occasion to defend myself, and I did it because I did get angry.  While not even in martial arts, I kicked the guys groin and managed to close my car door and get away.  Anger has its place, it gave me focus and strength when I needed it.  Afterwards as I was driving away, my knees shook.  Without anger, I might have felt fear, then I might have not reacted as I did. 

I doubt I could genuinely feel anger while practicing as I don't think a sparring accident or even an intentional bad strike would cause anger - surprise maybe but not anger.  And I don't think it can be manufactured unless you have other issues - then I would think you would be thinking about those and become unfocused in your intent during sparring or even self-defense work. TW


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## Rich Parsons (Mar 3, 2006)

To me Anger is bad. 

Fear has driven me to hurt people.

I have told people if I am loud or talking it is ok. If I start to laugh in an obvious place where it is not normal, watch out. If I go quiet after that, then do get in my way.


Anger also makes one tunnel vision, while calm or steady is better.


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## KenpoTex (Mar 3, 2006)

MJS said:
			
		

> IMHO, anger is like fear. If you can control it and use it to your advantage, it'll help you. If you can't conrtol it, and you let it over take you, it'll be another enemy that you'll have to fight.
> 
> Mike


I agree.  Blind rage or anger to the point where you lose control is not going to help you any.  However I feel that there is much to be said for _controlled_ rage or righteous indignation or whatever you want to call it.


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## SAVAGE (Mar 3, 2006)

Anger is a thing more dangerous than your enemy....when you are angry you dont think about surviving but about destroying...it will cloud your vision and get you hurt!


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## Ceicei (Mar 4, 2006)

TigerWoman said:
			
		

> Anger has its place, it gave me focus and strength when I needed it. Afterwards as I was driving away, my knees shook. Without anger, I might have felt fear, then I might have not reacted as I did.
> 
> I doubt I could genuinely feel anger while practicing as I don't think a sparring accident or even an intentional bad strike would cause anger - surprise maybe but not anger. And I don't think it can be manufactured unless you have other issues - then I would think you would be thinking about those and become unfocused in your intent during sparring or even self-defense work. TW



I agree.  Anger has its place.  Anger can lend more strength when needed and dispel fear--it is only a temporary solution.  It works in a high stress situation (when defending against an actual attack).  Blinding rage, however, is not productive and usually cause more harm.

My instructor will sometimes goad me (especially when sparring) just enough to the point when I become more determined and focused.  That is technically not anger as he doesn't make me mad.  He just knows which buttons would motivate me.

- Ceicei


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## still learning (Mar 4, 2006)

Hello, Anger does give you some focus and strength....and brings out the killer instinct ( when "anger" one does not care what one does). Many people lose control and will shoot,stab,club and hit to kill.....This cannot be good......the thoughts are lost on only hurting the other person/persons. ...AND will sometimes reqret later.....but too late!

The more calm you can make yourself...the better decisions you will make!

In all out martial arts...we all have levels of attacking/hurting a person. Only by being more relax... can you see the amount of force you will need!

Controlling anger will not be easy after all these years you have use it...it is a habit. HABITS CAN BE CHANGE! 

Anger is a learn response...so is being nice....oops " I'm sorry" ...simile and move on............Aloha

PS: Anger did work for the HULK! ..don't get him mad?


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## Tony (Mar 4, 2006)

I think using a mixture of fear and anger helps! Fear keeps you alert to danger and hightens your awareness. Also that rush of adrenalin acts like a pain killer but to stop yourself from feeling too much fear I would want to use some anger and focus it so I have a balance of both.

When I was 17 I was attacked and it was my fear that kept me alive and maybe if i had got angry and used my then limited knowledge of martial arts and anger i might not be here or who knows I may have surprised myself and hurt them a little.

Having too much anger makes you slow and tense I think although people who get angry when they fight can inflict a lot of damage but have no control. My friend for instance who does Taekwondo has been banned from sparring as he gets so carried away he uses to much force. This could be a problem if he realy injures someone in class and out in a street situation he coudl end up killing someone and go to prison. This guy is soon going to be a black belt and it concerns me he has not learned control yet when he has to set an example to the younger students in his class.

Anger clouds the mind and leaves us with less options but if we are relaxed our minds are free to utilise every technique we know to overcome potential attackers. To have a clear mind I think meditation would be of extreme benefit aswell as helping our responses. I might suggest this to my friend but I bet he will think its gay without even givign it a try. I don't think they do a lot of this in his class. I think they mainly concentrate on forms and sparring.

Another question I want to put is how would you respond to an angry opponent?


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## Adept (Mar 4, 2006)

A few people have already likened fear and anger to fire, and it's a great analogy.

I live in a very dry country, and bushfires are a part of life. When I was a young'n, one of the things my dad drilled into me was that "fire is a good servant, but a poor master."

And the same is perfectly true of both fear and anger. Keep it under control, and it can serve you well. But when it gets out of control, bad things can happen. Using that theory, I find a little bit of anger/fear can really help in a tense situation, so long as you remain under control.


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## searcher (Mar 4, 2006)

Anger as with any emotion I have found to be very bad.  It tends to cloud judgement and has been known to get people hurt.   Typically the one who is angry.   It is common to have young testosterone pumping males think that it is the only way to fight, but as I have shown them time and again it only makes them screw up in a conflict.   No martial artist should rely on emotion to help them in a fight.   IMO it is saying that their skills are not good enough to carry them through a conflict.   I will gladly defend against a person who is relying on emotion.   It makes it easier to stop the fight quickly and I don't hurt as much the next day.


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## beau_safken (Mar 5, 2006)

Anger while training leads to pulled muscle, broken bones and worse yet...you doing that to someone else.  People who have those issues need a shrink...not a dojo.


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## Hand Sword (Mar 31, 2006)

In self defense, anger could be an ally. You should be angry for getting picked as atarget or attacked. Being passive will definitely get you broken in a fight.


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## MJS (Mar 31, 2006)

Hand Sword said:
			
		

> In self defense, anger could be an ally. You should be angry for getting picked as atarget or attacked. Being passive will definitely get you broken in a fight.


 
Thats true, however, we still can't allow that anger to overwhelm us.  

Mike


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## bushidomartialarts (Mar 31, 2006)

i said 'don't know' because it can be both.

controlled anger can be extremely useful.  uncontrolled anger will mess you up.  depends on your goals and your level of comfort with emotionally manipulating yourself.


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## bignick (Mar 31, 2006)

Anger has no place in training.  You are there to learn and to practice while ensuring the safety of yourself and others.

In competition, the best competitors I've seen compete with a sense of anger and almost hatred towards their opponent.  It's a switch they've learned to turn on and off.  They don't care who it is before or after the match, but during the bout they want to hurt that person, it's hard to compete against someone with that mindset.

In self-defense, you should be angry that the ****er that decided it was your day to be a victim thought for one second he could hurt you or the ones you love.  If he tries to hurt you, he deserves to die.  In the words of my instructor, "Who cares?  Occupational hazard, if he didn't want to worry about people hurting him, he shouldn't be a bad guy."


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## still learning (Apr 1, 2006)

Hello, My comments posted above was made before I read the book "Strong on Defense".

I have learn after reading a few chapters.....when we are being attack,aducted,or worst?    We can use our anger/hatred to fight back?..this is a positive thing.

Anger will give you added strenght and feel less pain!  Sometimes you must get mad ...to resist the aggressor!  When someone is hurting you! and the only answer to fight back and to escape!

Our emotions(anger )can be use for good reasons too....as you read others who mention the same things how anger has help them! (the HULK)

I was wrong earlier.....sometimes we must choose to be angry?  ....Let's get mad NOW?  .......aaawwww.........Aloha


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## Kacey (Apr 1, 2006)

Are we talking about anger or adrenalin?  The fight or flight response, which triggers adrenalin, is very useful in a self-defense, but anger, as stated in other posts, clouds the judgement, hinders control, and can too easily spread to people otherwise uninvolved in the conflict.


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## stickarts (Apr 1, 2006)

I am normally pretty passive. I have noticed that a little anger, but well controlled and chanelled has helped me in competition in many sports.
out of control or used in an abusive way is of course destructive to everyone.


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## still learning (Apr 2, 2006)

Kacey said:
			
		

> Are we talking about anger or adrenalin? The fight or flight response, which triggers adrenalin, is very useful in a self-defense, but anger, as stated in other posts, clouds the judgement, hinders control, and can too easily spread to people otherwise uninvolved in the conflict.


 
Have you experience either one?  Anger can be use in a positive way? ...Try it? ...........Aloha


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## terryl965 (Apr 2, 2006)

still learning said:
			
		

> Have you experience either one? Anger can be use in a positive way? ...Try it? ...........Aloha


 
Even though some can use anger in a positive way it should never be used when your fighting, stay calm and get angry after the fact, that way your vision will not be cloudy at all.
Terry


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## still learning (Apr 3, 2006)

terryl965 said:
			
		

> Even though some can use anger in a positive way it should never be used when your fighting, stay calm and get angry after the fact, that way your vision will not be cloudy at all.
> Terry


 
Most of us do not look for confrontations?  We will avoid it if possible? ...When facing a aggressor(can be huge,more than one,w/weapons).  You will  not feel calm?  If the aggression continues....fear kicks in? and the adrenline?   ....will you fight back?

Sometimes getting anger will force you to fight back harder and stronger...until you experience this or really understand it's properties?

Trying to stay calm is very hard to do?  Even in a car accident?..how many of us stay calm?  or were spook during Halloween?  or on the edge of a very high tall building?  do you feel calm? ever got rob or rape?
Talking about it is easy? ... In the real world?  It will be different?

One day you will understand this?  Anger will save your life....suggested reading..."Strong on Defense" by Stanford Strong, Retired police officer.

The only people who usually remaims calm...are the stupid and insane? Read that somewhere?

......Aloha


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## Hand Sword (Apr 3, 2006)

Or the one's that were not the victims. Kind of like the wildabeast that stand there and watch the lions eat one of their own.


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## terryl965 (Apr 3, 2006)

One day you will understand this? Anger will save your life....

Still learning Anger will not save your life but staying calm and control of the stituation might one day. I'm 45 years old and I know every single person I know in Ma says the same thing your anger will get the best of you one day, stay calm in every stituation and in control and you will be a better man for it.

I whole heartily believe this.
anger can be beneficial in certain scenirio's.

Terry


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## still learning (Apr 3, 2006)

terryl965 said:
			
		

> One day you will understand this? Anger will save your life....
> 
> Still learning Anger will not save your life but staying calm and control of the stituation might one day. I'm 45 years old and I know every single person I know in Ma says the same thing your anger will get the best of you one day, stay calm in every stituation and in control and you will be a better man for it.
> 
> ...


 
Yes!  but there are many types of anger?  Study this? The loose cannons will not be able to think clearly...this we all can agree?  ..but have you had the type the makes you mad..but decide I will do it?  Anger has many faces....and not only one type?  /read the book "Strong on Defense"!

Staying in control and calm in a dangerous situtions is not easy?  Especially when it is unexpected?  Most of the time fear and adrenline will kick in?  this is the natural respone for most people?

One can tell ?  ..you may have not experience being attack, or in very high volatile situtions before?  It is easy to say "be calm" 

In real situtions?  ....most schools do not teach real life adrenline/fear fighting back skills..and reactions?  ....until you have face a high volatile situtions and can say you were calm and could think clearly as you feel everyday  ....than I am wrong?

As much fights "Marc the Animal MacYoung" has been in...he always get the adrenline rush....but experience gets him out of most troubles.

Anger is a tool which if you know how to use?  ..can work for you?  ....study this.....

example: As a part-time Sercuity Officer..we ask people to leave (nicely)..sometimes they talk back or get mad at you...I will ask three times Please you must leave?  ...the fourth time...I change my voice to a angerly tone...Just move out of here?(face expression too)   ....usually works because they think I am getting Mad!  ..... sai-call-a-la-G!   ...Aloha   ...sometimes we may not understand...that is OK!


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## Kacey (Apr 3, 2006)

still learning said:
			
		

> Have you experience either one?  Anger can be use in a positive way? ...Try it? ...........Aloha



Actually, I have... and I find that controlled anger (as opposed to rage, which, to me, at least, connotes lack of control) can be useful in triggering that adrenalin dump I was referring to - but the key here is *control*.  Either you control your anger, or it controls you; in the former case, it can be used; in the latter case, it will use you, and your actions will be reflexive and/or instinctive, rather than considered, and you will be more likely to regret them later.

I find that now, after many years of training, my training kicks in automatically - for example, I walked out of my classroom a couple of years ago and into a catfight between two 8th grade girls.  I jumped between them, put my hands out in a cross between a block and a shove, and yelled "BREAK... it up!".  My referee training kicked in, and that's how I reacted - it was very effective.  Those two girls had been completely out of control, in a knock-down, drag-out catfight (pulling hair, kicking, grabbing, etc. - a very dirty fight), but the tone of my voice (and I was angry at them) caught their attention, and half a second later they were both sitting on the floor glaring at each other - but at no point was I out of control; if I had been, I don't think I would have responded as effectively.


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## terryl965 (Apr 4, 2006)

Still learning I have been stabbed and jumped before and was able to control the stituation without getting angry got madd yes but not angry, maybe we have a different way of looking at anger. We will just have to dis-agree on this one. Still I'm enjoying the converatation
Terry


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## MJS (Apr 4, 2006)

still learning said:
			
		

> Yes! but there are many types of anger? Study this? The loose cannons will not be able to think clearly...this we all can agree? ..but have you had the type the makes you mad..but decide I will do it? Anger has many faces....and not only one type? /read the book "Strong on Defense"!
> 
> Staying in control and calm in a dangerous situtions is not easy? Especially when it is unexpected? Most of the time fear and adrenline will kick in? this is the natural respone for most people?
> 
> ...


 
I think part of it is, is that some people may not be able to control their anger.  Once the situation is over, people need to be able to 'turn the switch' off, and not continue to beat the person.  

As hard as it is, IMO, staying calm is the way to go.  Many times people will intentionally 'egg' you on, so that you lose control.  If we think about it, at that point, we're really no better than the other person.

The moral of the story is, it is a tool that when handled properly can be a help to us.  If its not handled properly, it is a tool that can be used against us.

Mike


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## still learning (Apr 4, 2006)

terryl965 said:
			
		

> Still learning I have been stabbed and jumped before and was able to control the stituation without getting angry got madd yes but not angry, maybe we have a different way of looking at anger. We will just have to dis-agree on this one. Still I'm enjoying the converatation
> Terry


 
Thank-you....Now I have to research getting "mad" vs getting "angry

Mad means insane,frenzied?   vs angry means stormy,inflamed,  American Century Dictionary, paper back 1996.

I am glad you were mad at that person because if you were angry....the sitution could have been different?     .....just playing here...Aloha


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## terryl965 (Apr 4, 2006)

still learning said:
			
		

> Thank-you....Now I have to research getting "mad" vs getting "angry
> 
> Mad means insane,frenzied? vs angry means stormy,inflamed, American Century Dictionary, paper back 1996.
> 
> I am glad you were mad at that person because if you were angry....the sitution could have been different? .....just playing here...Aloha


 
Still Learning I just love the way you put everything.
Your Martial Art Brother
Terry


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## Hand Sword (Apr 6, 2006)

Trying to decipher definitions is Maddening! Now, I'm getting angry!     
	

	
	
		
		

		
			







I agree as well, well stated still learning.


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## still learning (Apr 13, 2006)

Hand Sword said:
			
		

> Trying to decipher definitions is Maddening! Now, I'm getting angry!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Maddening:annoying,infuriating,offensive,(disturbing)-Webster's New World Thesaurus.

Iran's Nuclear plant is maddening our President.  One day George will get angry, and "Kaboom."   .........Aloha


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## Brandon Fisher (Apr 13, 2006)

In a real life situation anger is a bad thing.  Anger can help if you can control it but when pure emotion gets in the way you can't think and react well.  Keeping a cool and even temperment will help you react quickly and effectively.  Fear is enough of a hinderance you don't need anger also.


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## Slihn (Apr 14, 2006)

shesulsa said:
			
		

> Whenever I've struck something in anger - sheer, frustrated, blinding anger, I've always injured myself and I want to know how you folks feel about anger and whether it helps you or hinders you?


 
              Ive seen that kinda anger in action before;my wife does the same thing.One time she got really mad and punched a soild wooden door.She hit it so hard that injuried into her hand,later that night she said that her hand felt numb and tingley I took her to the hospital and we found out that she had actually punched her knuckle back into her hand.She does that kind of thing quite often,when ever she cools off we both laugh about it together though.

As for me,I learned(through training) how to (better) control my anger.When fighting an opponet,I have noticed that anger makes me over emphasize (telegrahing) my techniques,which make them highly perdictable.Also anger makes me very tired after that aderline rush is over.

If anger for me is unavoidable(while fighting) I manipulate it and instead of bursting out with attacks,I use it to refuel my stamnia.

Anger and fear are probaly the two biggest factors that clouds people's judgement.Anger often makes people to rash and reckless;leaping into situation without thought;and fear often makes a person to passive.Those are just my thoughts in the issue.


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## still learning (Apr 14, 2006)

Hello, This "anger" in us is not easy to explain.  There are all kinds and types...most of you think of those who lose it to a degree....

The anger I am trying to explain is use to get you to fight back..with feelings of not wanted to become a victim anymore.  Use it as a motivator...in those stressful/fearful situtions when you are under attack by a preditor.  You will gain the "killer instinct" or mind set...to resist and fight back. Therefold getting mad/anger...in these times...maybe the only thing that may save your life.

Most of us will not be calm,relax, and ready to go....fear and stress...will be on your minds.....hundreds of things will be flowing thru you head...Know the difference on getting mad/anger.  Happiness ..there is more than one kind too. 

Happy to share this....(not happy if you do not understand what I am trying to share here..)....I will be happier...when you do....

"ah" nothing like feeling happy.....the anger is gone!  ....Aloha


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## Brandon Fisher (Apr 14, 2006)

I agree


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## Hand Sword (Apr 14, 2006)

Angry, but, Focussed is a good way to go.


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## Ross (Apr 18, 2006)

Hand Sword said:
			
		

> Angry, but, Focussed is a good way to go.


 
Hand Sword - you arent a dark lord of the sith by any chance? :jediduel: 

Fear leads to anger,
Anger leads to hate,
Hate leads to suffering!


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## Aruden (Apr 18, 2006)

Dunno if it has been said before but this is what I do:

I don't rely on anger when I'm fighting. It's more of a survival instinct what Paul Vunak calls the "Killer Instinct". While you're out of the opponent's reach just punching and kicking you can be relaxed and just "playing". But when the real fight begins, when you're in the opponent arms trapping, clinching, straightblasting, kneeing, elbowing or headbutting that's where your Killer Instinct tunes in and give you this motivation, this "anger" or destructive force and survival skill you need to defeat the opponent quickly. I think that when you're fighting you must never consider yourself lost,disadvantaged you must continue to fight till the end. This may sound a bit extreme but that's the fighter spirit IMO.


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## Hand Sword (Apr 18, 2006)

All I'll say Ross is: Don't underestimate the power of the dark side!


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## Ross (Apr 18, 2006)

Hand Sword said:
			
		

> All I'll say Ross is: Don't underestimate the power of the dark side!


 
LOL


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