# How to use muay thai in a street fight?



## Red Ranger

I'd like to first say i am a huge supporter of keeping fights in the ring or cage. Ive actually never been in a streetfight, nor do i want to. But.. This month alone, ive had 3 different confrontations that couldve easily became violent. And now i feel like it wont be long till i have to defend myself without gloves or rules. Keep in mind i didnt instigate any of these confrontations. Im a quiet reserved guy, so those situations take tolls on me. I do muay thai, and my niche so to speak is more of a brawlers type of fight. I take alot of hits, and i like getting my hands dirty and putting it all on the line. So i realize... This isnt exactly the smartest thing to do in a real fight. And honestly i believe i wouldnt have a problem defending myself against anyone my size. Unfortunately, people my size arent the problem. Im 120. Its the bigger guys or guys with other people with them that like to get violent or physical. So.. With the tools taught in muay thai, whats the most practical, effective way of self defense? Thanks.


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## Akira

Size means nothing, I've seen many small people whallop bigger heavier opponenents.

Techniques, well.. leg kick, elbows to the head, knees to the stomach/chest..even the largest opponent will have trouble with those if they don't know how to block them effectively.


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## blackdiamondcobra

In the street, its not a sport or anything like it.  Muay Thai contributes many positive attributes but you want the right mental state and right arsenal to deal with those situations as well as deal with any environmental issues.  If muay thai is your main art, and if self defense or the extension into self defense is the key then you extend into military muay thai or lerd rit or something of that nature and you learn that end.  In sport many of the things that are common in the ring become a telegraph in the street and things you want to sort of bring down in a confrontation until the right moment, there are no timings in the street or refs to stop you or to tell you when to stop.  Theres no gloves on your hands or handwraps for the most part(in winter environments you have thin or thick gloves), so you want to use your hands in a way the bare knuckle guys did to avoid breaking or fracturing the hands. Dealing with the situations with or without weapons or multiple opponents come into play all of which need to be dealt with too  or at least understood within the confines of non sporting combative krabi krabong.  So you just take muay thai skills and adjust, refine and work it into the new arena.

I learned all the different thai martial arts and employ them as needed.  From meditation and massage to ring muay thai to weapons to combatics, its there if you need it and want to learn it.


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## Omar B

Though MT can work for the street, it's designed around the ring and you yourself said you are a brawler and to me that means you take a good amount of damage while dishing it out too.  Rather than say "Learn karate so you can end confrontations before you get hit," I'll say, realize that what you are doing is tailored for a ring and rules not for the street and consider for yourself how confrontations on the street usually go.  Can you break a hold, choke, wrist grab?  How about when a guy and his buds decide to attack, is your training preparing you for a confrontation with multiple attackers from several angles?  Can you handle a knife or some other weapon?


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## Franc0

Good points. 1st I'd suggest if your MT training is all you have (which IMO is the one of the best ONLY things to have), then realize a difference between your ring MT, and dirty street MT where you'd implement everything thats illegal in the ring, including carrying a knife.  
2nd, you might want to look into expanding your toolbox to be able to deal with things like Omar mentioned, chokes, locks etc.
If it's legal to carry a knife where you live, I couldn't suggest enough to learn some basic knifework also.

Franco


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## MrLane

Fellas! Carrying knives!? SERIOUSLY!?

*SERIOUSLY!?*

According to the adverts over here, you're more likely to get stabbed if you carry a knife - and whats the point in carrying one unless you intend to use it? I don't know about you but I'm not sure I could bring it upon myself to STAB SOMEONE!

If you want street defense do Krav Maga or find a JKD school. Jesus. Next you'll be saying carry a gun cause everyone else has a knife!


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## Franc0

MrLane said:


> Fellas! Carrying knives!? SERIOUSLY? and whats the point in carrying one unless you intend to use it? I don't know about you but I'm not sure I could bring it upon myself to STAB SOMEONE!


Seriously? Yes, just because *you* have the inability to use a knife doesn't mean others do also. I've carried a knife for over 20 yrs, pulled it out once, and the guy who pulled his knife on me 1st in a robbery attempt, simply ran away when he saw mine was bigger than his. Would also like to see where your stats come from. 
Hoping not to derail this *Muay Thai* thread either. 

Franco


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## Giorgio

Ok firstly, the best way you can use MT in a street fight is to use all that cardio training you've done and RUN AWAY. There's no point risking a fight when the other guy might have a knife, or a bunch of friends, or even the intention of beating you to death if he does get the upper hand. Save your pride for your work and your family, not for some thug.

That said, some basic tips on the two fights I've gotten into, and from stories from friends/training partners:

-Don't get into clinch. You WILL get your nuts kneed. 

-Don't go for body punches, they're a waste of time. Focus on the head and throat.

-Use elbows if you can. Most people don't know how to deal with them. 

-Push kicks to the opponent's legs/knees are effective, especially if you're wearing heavy shoes.

-Most importantly, when you're in the fight, keep your wits about you, and don't get into the blind fury stage that precedes most fights. This is both to keep you aware of whether he has friends coming to back him up, and because you want to be able to break off the fight as soon as possible. 

As soon as you get the upper hand, break it off and say something like "this is stupid, let's just drop it" or something to that effect. Resist the urge to humiliate him or gloat, as that will only make him want to continue fighting, or even pull a knife/go and get a knife to come back and take revenge. Be the bigger man.

Hope that helps.


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## xoek

two observations, both from personal experience.

1. it is safer for you to use your elbows than punch with a bare fist. your hand is fragile and suseptible to injury. lots of small bones that are easily broken. use your elbows, it's much sturdier allowing you to hit with greater impact force repeated times if necesary.

2. don't kick. every time you lift your leg off the ground you lose the ability to balance and rebelance rapidly as you or he move. you never know when he's gonna go for the old drunken bum rush, and you do not want to be on the ground. remember GAGE ground avoidance ground escape.

oh, and also the element of surprise is both very underrated and very effective, and you want to end the fight as soon as possible and leave.

yes, your first reaction should be to run and avoid these confrontations, however, in a scenario where someone goes hands on with you, your ideal reaction would be to react fast (elbow to the face, or whatever) and that will usually buy you a few seconds from your attacker becoming stunned/ disoriented for a few seconds. Then you would use this time wisely to get the hell out of there, get lost in a crowd or something and leave the area.

above all muay thai gives you the confidence you need to feel comfortable in these type of situations. remember that heart is beating out of your chest feeling from sparring for the first time?


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## Skpotamus

From personal experience:  A clinch is going to happen in almost any fight that lasts beyond the first strike thrown.  whether the people know what they are doing or not.  Knowing how to fight in the clinch helps tremendously especially against bigger people.  Most people have no idea how to defend the thai clinch and you can actually pull most peoples heads down to their knees without any real resistance.  

Get good at using your knees and elbows in the clinch, hit fast, hard and keep on hitting until the fight is over.  

Always keep an eye on the environment around you.  If you see someone else starting to jump in, use the cardio you get from MT training and run.


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## Wagonmancer

If im gonna engage in a fight with someone im pretty pissed off, im picking up something and bashing him over the head. If you are strictly hand to hand with the guy b.s. him and stall to set up a head kick he won't see coming and kick him repeatedly. I don't think many guys on the street will know what to do when your kicking their knees out and knocking the air out of them kicks. Add in some elbows to the face when their focused on your kicks and i don't see them lasting long. Just stay moving or they'll tackle you.


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## Rob2109

Obviously the best tactic is to just run away, like various other posters have said. If you find yourself having to fight i'd use low kicks, target the side of the knee, if they cant stand, they cant fight. Plus if you're wearing jeans you can still low kick easily and they will be expecting a punch to the head (element of surprise) There aren't many other martial artists that can deal with the low kick so the average joe will have no chance, you need it to be over quickly as they may have mates close by to join in.
Another point is that you can knock someone down, they bang their head on the pavement and can die - it happens fairly often here in the UK and you would be looking at Manslaughter. Not sure where you're from but the law generally looks badly on a trained martial artist battering a guy senseless.
That's just my two cents worth anyway, hope it's of some use to you.


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## Giorgio

@Skpotamus: Although I agree that most fights end up in a clinch after the first few blows are exchanged, I really would try to avoid them. The clinch in Muay Thai is the most regulated (and thus most unrealistic) part of the martial art. No groin strikes, no joint locks, no chokes, and no transition to groundwork. Although you may be an expert in the Muay Thai clinch and feel comfortable in it, you will NOT be comfortable in a clinch in a street situation. And as I mentioned before, the Muay Thai clinch position practically INVITES knees to the groin. 

@Wagonmancer: What kind of trousers do you wear that allow you to pull of a flash kick to the head? I need to get me some 

Seriously, though, in most street situations you're gonna be wearing jeans, which means you'll be struggling to pull off kicks to the ribs, let alone the head. Rob is right on when he advises using the low kicks. Just make sure you keep your wits about you. You'll probably need a couple of good low kicks to incapacitate him, whereas he only needs one good hook to knock you down.


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## Skpotamus

Giorgio said:


> @Skpotamus: Although I agree that most fights end up in a clinch after the first few blows are exchanged, I really would try to avoid them. The clinch in Muay Thai is the most regulated (and thus most unrealistic) part of the martial art. No groin strikes, no joint locks, no chokes, and no transition to groundwork. Although you may be an expert in the Muay Thai clinch and feel comfortable in it, you will NOT be comfortable in a clinch in a street situation. And as I mentioned before, the Muay Thai clinch position practically INVITES knees to the groin.
> 
> @Wagonmancer: What kind of trousers do you wear that allow you to pull of a flash kick to the head? I need to get me some
> 
> Seriously, though, in most street situations you're gonna be wearing jeans, which means you'll be struggling to pull off kicks to the ribs, let alone the head. Rob is right on when he advises using the low kicks. Just make sure you keep your wits about you. You'll probably need a couple of good low kicks to incapacitate him, whereas he only needs one good hook to knock you down.



Have you ever tried to do anything in jeans before?  I can throw head height kicks with regular jeans on (I'm 6'1"), both teeps and rounds.  If you can't, then you either need to work on your kicks a bit more because your flexibility and abdominal strength are lacking or pull your pants up.  As long as you wear your pants around your waist (where they are supposed to be) and not your thighs you shouldn't have any real problems with kicking high.  A quick youtube search shows a newby kicking a heavy bag with jeans on without stretching  



    Here's a video of a guy in cargo pants kicking high  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4g9_ZhdUDHA&feature=related
Here's tom kurz kicking high in a suit without stretching  



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KsftAKAB1hg&feature=channel_page Another kurz video showing people doing suspended splits, some of them in jeans.  
A quick trailer to kurz video "power high kicks with no warmup" shows him throwing quite a few high kicks with jeans on http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaMqRJROcTM&feature=channel_page (Personally, I don't recommend kicking to the head unless you are doing it as a clinch exit).  

Why do people assume that you would follow ring rules in a street fight?   Hell, the reason the ref watches it so closely is that people don't follow the rules in the ring when they are supposed to!   
When I HAVE used the clinch in real street fights before, I threw knees and elbows until the fight was over, knees targeted the groin and ribs, elbows the temple and chin.  I have yet to have anybody be ABLE to throw a groin shot since I start kneeing and elbowing while I'm grabbing for the clinch.  A proper thai clinch will get their head down low, below your chin level (remember, most people don't train in muay thai and will LET you pull their head down instead of fighting for inside control and keeping their head up), making them using knees impossible, and punches difficult since they will be punching up at you and create a perfect opening for elbows.  I've used it in two real fights where I threw the knees and elbows, and probably a half dozen times working security at fraternity parties where I didn't have to throw any strikes (most of the time you can actually push the person's head all the way to the ground and the thai clinch becomes a takedown).


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## Jaspthecat

I study Muay Thai and Krav Maga.

Krav Maga which concentrates on the topic of street defense and assailant neutralisation relies on a lot of Muay Thai techniques.

I would agree that if you bounced around waiting for a gap to strike as per MT sparring, you are putting yourself at a possible disadvantage however, Muay Thai combined with the burst and multiple attack philosopy of Krav would be quite effective I think.


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## tenzen

imho. firstly i would like to say that the poster was asking about when in a street fight so run away is no longer an option as he stated he did that and it works but he wants to know about in fighting what he should do. also we need to keep in mind he is asking about the tools he has not learning new ones. so all the krav maga talk is irelevant. please remember this is my opinion and may not be what he was getting at. 

as far as technique i would say stomp/push kicks to the knees and elbows to the head and yes avoid the clinch. knees to the legs and torso will work also. a solid knee to the sciatic nerve will definately slow them down and drop the guard momentarily thus setting up an elbow stirke to the face, preferably the lower jaw which is full of quick knockout pressure points. others are above the eyebrow and of course the temple. these are easy. a more difficult one is under the cheek bone close to the nose. these points are very high chance knockout points. they will work for you with hands or elbows but you want to use your elbows to save your hands although this is not always possible. this only works in the ring with elbows as the gloves stop you from reaching the pressure point.

hope this helps. sorry if the first few lines come off wrong its not on purpose.


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## Giorgio

@skpotamus: Thanks for posting the links to the vids. Two things, though: Firstly, you're right, I don't wear jeans like that, the jeans I usually wear (and which most people my age wear around London, to be honest), while not being "around the thighs" seriously restrict how high you can kick. As I said, about the hip is as high as you're likely to go, and even then, you'll be fighting against the jeans. I was very impressed by those videos, I've honestly never seen jeans like that. Also, I wouldn't be caught dead in a suit as baggy and horribly cut as the one in the second video you linked. 

Secondly, I'm glad the clinch works out for you in street fights. I still don't recommend it. You ask why people would follow ring rules in a street fight: they follow ring rules because they've been training ring rules for years. Not many proper Muay Thai gyms teach students how to knee people in the groin during a clinch, and almost no Nak Muay who's training for a bout bothers to drill kneeing to the groin, or defend a knee to the groin. Because it's just not part of the sport, it doesn't get taught, and it doesn't get trained. 

I'm not saying that a Nak Muay will out of principle refuse to knee someone in the groin, I'm saying that if you've trained the clinch for 5 years with (almost) complete confidence that you can go into clinch without getting kneed in the nuts, you will by definition not be as ready for a knee to the nuts as you will be for say, a hook to the face, or a kick to the stomach, which you most definitely WILL have drilled in the gym.

My advice is to stick to ranges where you know (and control) the game. If you're both unarmed, stick to punching and kicking ranges, because there's absolutely nothing Muay Thai can't handle at those ranges. In grappling range, you're dealing with joint locks, chokes, groin strikes, biting, and eye gouging, all weapons you haven't trained to defend against. 

And forget about it if he gets you on the ground and you haven't done any BJJ. I'm not saying he'll definitely beat you at these ranges, but you're throwing away the advantages your training gives you if you let him get to these ranges. 

That's my two cents, anyways.


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## Tony Dismukes

In _general_ I'm a strong advocate of using the muay thai clinch in a self-defence situation. If you're skilled in using the clinch, it should be easy to learn how to use and defend against knees to the groin in that position - just do a little supplemental training with some friends on the side. Against an untrained opponent, establishing head control should give a huge advantage in landing knees to the groin or anywhere else.

In _this particular case _I'm not so sure. The poster weighs 120 pounds and doesn't have grappling/groundfighting experience. Against a much larger opponent, clinching could lead to being tackled to the ground, which is a bad place to be if you're much smaller and don't have groundfighting skills.


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## Skpotamus

Tony Dismukes said:


> In _general_ I'm a strong advocate of using the muay thai clinch in a self-defence situation. If you're skilled in using the clinch, it should be easy to learn how to use and defend against knees to the groin in that position - just do a little supplemental training with some friends on the side. Against an untrained opponent, establishing head control should give a huge advantage in landing knees to the groin or anywhere else.
> 
> In _this particular case _I'm not so sure. The poster weighs 120 pounds and doesn't have grappling/groundfighting experience. Against a much larger opponent, clinching could lead to being tackled to the ground, which is a bad place to be if you're much smaller and don't have groundfighting skills.



From my experience, the smaller guys get grabbed more often in fights.  I think it's an ego trip for some jack@$$es to man handle smaller guys in fights, like it makes them feel powerful or something.  Shrug, pretty much every fight I've seen had clinch and grappling work (usually no technique, just grab, squeeze and lift/trip or hold and hit), so why not train to fight in the range that happens even when you're trying hard to NOT fight there?  I mean, boxing, Muay Thai, San Shou, MMA, Real Contact Sick Fighting, street fight vids, etc all show an extremely high amount of grappling and wrestling during fights, usually standing up grappling and hitting, even in the sports that don't allow it.  It's pretty hard to stay out of a clinch.  Being better than other people at the range that happens so often is never a bad thing IMO.  


As always, YMMV.


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## Tony Dismukes

> From my experience, the smaller guys get grabbed more often in fights.


 
I totally agree. There's an excellent chance that an assailant will try to grab the smaller guy, and in that case the muay thai clinch skills can come in handy. I was responding to the debate over whether the smaller guy should deliberately choose to enter the clinch range in order to use his muay thai training.


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## TheWellWisher

I'd ideally like to avoid the confrontation if possible lol. But I guess if it can't be helped i'd front kick thier knees then go for a couple of close range elbows. While making sure I don't get hit by some random haymaker like most people do on the streets.. then I'd get out of there


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## Zero

I know the original question is what techniques/MT weapons you should focus on using in such a scenario but I would still say that, if you seem to have these events/conflicts/persons gravitating towards you, you should also focus more on the core basics of SD (which are not covered to any degree in most sport orientated fight styles). You need to work on your awareness, the image/vibe you portray and radiate, ability to gauge tensions building etc and also you ability, both body language and verbal, to de-escalate confrontations and aggressors.

Sport fighting will give you all the cardio and basic skills if you have to come to grips with an aggressor but do some SD training so that in most instances you don't need to get to this level, maybe also work on cooling off the ego - no offense, I'm not sure why you have recently found these confrontations being attracted to you.

I have competed in full contact karate, judo and freestyle for many years and now supplement this with MT also so am in no way 'dissing' these or other ring styles such as MT in their effectiveness but it was the more traditionally orientated or SD classes with LEOs that increased my "street" awareness so to avoid these problematic encounters. If I were you I would seriously focus on this, alongside your fight training, before putting a knife or something in your back pocket.
best, and good luck!


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## Inky

Have you shared your concerns with your Kru? You may be surprised at the wealth of good information you receive. 

I am fortunate enough that my own Kru frequently discusses differences in sports fighting with Muay Thai, street fighting and self defense. Small details about adjusting of tekniques, being well aware of your surroundings, etc.... 

good luck from Inky, the newest forum no0b.


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## -steve-

Honestly, I think allot of you guys n gals are seriously under estimating muay thai's effectiveness in a street fight. Ok, so basically for what ever reason, our thread starter has been getting in a few verbal confrontations, which could possibly have escalated into violence. Now all fights are potentially deadly, but too me it sounds like these "macho men" for whatever reason want to prove their manli-ness by beating this guy up. It sounds to me like typical school yard bullery(is that even a word?). My suggestion would be simple, box them, most of them upon realizing that you can fight and take a comple combos to the head will back off(or get knocked out).Or, as someone mentioned use all that cardio, some fights tend to be some what even, until one of the guys gets tired and the other guy takes advantage of this. I've seen allot of these types of altercations, and allot of times the two guys fighting will become friends after wards. The reason i'm saying this is as regarding people's complaints that muay thai dosen't teach eye pokes or groin strikes and generally is geared towards sport. I dunno about you guys but I would have to feel like i'm in some serious danger to kick some one in the nads or poke their eyes out. Is some ones eye sight or use of their balls really worth what could be only a minor scuffle? There's no honor in being a dirty fighter, unless u feel seriously threated I wouldnt pull such potentially life damaging moves. So if you're pretty sure its going to be a fist fight i'd say box them, stay active, use the clinch for knees if they ttry to grapple you, elbow them in the head. You say you're only 120 lbs but I bet you're fast as ****, use this to you're advantage. Yes muay thai is only a "sport" but it's one of the most brutal of combat sports out there. So unless there's weapons or multi pull attackers involved I'd say a muay thai fighter has a considerable advantage over some douche bag bully.


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## BLACK LION

Red Ranger said:


> I'd like to first say i am a huge supporter of keeping fights in the ring or cage. Ive actually never been in a streetfight, nor do i want to. But.. This month alone, ive had 3 different confrontations that couldve easily became violent. And now i feel like it wont be long till i have to defend myself without gloves or rules. Keep in mind i didnt instigate any of these confrontations. Im a quiet reserved guy, so those situations take tolls on me. I do muay thai, and my niche so to speak is more of a brawlers type of fight. I take alot of hits, and i like getting my hands dirty and putting it all on the line. So i realize... This isnt exactly the smartest thing to do in a real fight. And honestly i believe i wouldnt have a problem defending myself against anyone my size. Unfortunately, people my size arent the problem. Im 120. Its the bigger guys or guys with other people with them that like to get violent or physical. So.. With the tools taught in muay thai, whats the most practical, effective way of self defense? Thanks.


 
One thing some people who train muay thai fail to take andvantage of is the force of forward motion coupled with elbows, knees and/or push kicks... Some get caught up in kicking with the shins to the legs torso and head and boxing... Some forsake the benfits of the power and devastaion behind the knees and elbows... Not only can they be deployed from distance but they can be deployed torso to torso... They are one of the hardest points of the body and can be utilized from various angles which often times are outside the opponents peripheral vision... Knees and elbows are some of the best ambush body weapons we have... 

Do yourself a favor and supersize your muay thai training by targeting and embrace the benefits of elbows and knees...  
Learn to use the body weapons you have to create injuries becuase thats the only thing that means anything "outside the ring"... Every human is equal within the realm of injury becuase it disrupts the neurological and physiological function long enough for you to continue youe work or get the hell out...
Not all injuries are mortal or permanently debilitating...  The situation will dictate the force application of course and not all situations require a broken neck or crushed windpipe...


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## Akira

Elbows and knees can be deployed from distance hey?  Maybe if you're 8 feet tall.


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## -steve-

knees at a distance I can see.  Jumping knees and the like. elbows from a distance is another story, unless you are really tall i don't see you pulling off an elbow from a distance, unless you do a spinning back elbow or go all ong bak on them and do some crazy jumping elbow to the head and knee to the body. My 2 cents..


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## BLACK LION

If you can see it being done with the knees then you should be able to see it done with the elbows....  
Its pretty conceivable and very doable but if you train to advance with only part of your inseam then I can see where one would run into trouble if they were standing a few feet away...


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## Akira

Yes you can throw flying knees and elbows but are you really going to do it in a fight outside the ring? I'd much rather keep both feet on the ground and not put all my momentum into one attacking technique. People can grab you differently then they can in the ring and once they're choking you or the fight goes to ground, unless you have some other MA training you're ****ed. 

Much better to keep upright, centered, good stance and in control imo.


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## BLACK LION

No one said to fly thru the air .... If you lead with your entire inseam when you advance then you can land an elbow from distance easily...On top of that, your entire body weight will be behind the blow....


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## Rob2109

> unless you do a spinning back elbow or go all ong bak on them and do some crazy jumping elbow to the head



I'd do a back-flip while kicking them in the head like Streetfighter 2, then jump up and kick all three of them in slow motion!
Obviously the tactics would change if elephant bones were handy.


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## EMT

Muay Thai is good for street fighting but you have to remember about three important things:

#1 Don't let the fight to end up on the ground
#2 If you have to face more than one opponent keep them in front of you (avoid being surrounded at all cost) and always have a safe space behind you (so you can move back and won't get sucker punched from behind)
#3 If you're fighting with more than one guy move around a lot and especially move backwards and let them strike and then stop and retaliate and move back again. This way their strikes will not be very powerful since your backwards motion will make them weaker and yours are going to be more powerful since you stopped to strike while they moved towards you

6 reasons why Muay Thai is good for self defense


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