# Professor Chow, Always the warrior



## John Bishop (Mar 16, 2006)

I've read on other forums attacks against Prof. Chow by people who never met the man.  People calling him a "alcoholic" and such.  Which is really odd, since people who knew him much of his life, disagree strongly with that assessment.   
Professor Chow all his adult life did what some so called masters only talk about; he trained.  
He maintained a proficiency into his 60's and 70's that many martial artists will never achieve in thier life times.  

Here's Prof. Chow at age 68:

http://www.kajukenboinfo.com/kaju_professorchow_320.wvx

Here's Prof. Chow at 70:


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## Kembudo-Kai Kempoka (Mar 16, 2006)

Thank you. I know Mr. Chow had some issues in his latter years, but would never believe that alcoholism was one of them.

Regards,

Dave


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## Gentle Fist (Mar 16, 2006)

I don't think people truly understand how unreal this man was.  LOOK AT THOSE PIPES!!!!!


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## Flopik (Mar 16, 2006)

This look like the photo I post! nice
This is a founder of the Kenpo , we have to respect this man.


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## Hand Sword (Mar 17, 2006)

I hope I could be that solid when I'm 70! -- LOL! With that said, Much respect to the Professor! As I said, concerning GM Mitose, it doesn't matter, ultimately, what was done. They are who they are, and their place is set! If I had the chance, I'd have no problem bowing to them.


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## bushidomartialarts (Mar 17, 2006)

at 68?!?!  zowie.  i've read some interviews that seem to show the man was a few bubbles off plumb, but aren't all the really driven people in any art or society a wee bit nuts?  (from our perspective anyway)


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## Hand Sword (Mar 17, 2006)

Yeah, it's that "different" point of view that helps the systems continue to evolve.


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## Brian Jones (Mar 17, 2006)

I have heard both.  Many say Chow struggeld with alcohol later on in life. Doesn't make him not a warrior in any case.  Just makes him human and supseptible to problems like the rest of us.

Brian Jones


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## Danjo (Mar 17, 2006)

Well,

If that's what a 68 year-old alchoholic looks and moves like, tell me what brand of booze he drank and I'll start drinking it.

I'd be really interested in seeing some other seniors move in videos at that age for comparison.


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## dianhsuhe (Mar 17, 2006)

Yup-  That is taken from a picture with GM Kuoha.  The stories are legendary!

Thank you Sigung Bishop for posting this-  Professor never made a living off his art and died in relative poverty. Even when others were capitalizing on his "name", even some who did not train very long with him.

He deserves our respect in my opinion!

Cheers everyone!


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## DavidCC (Mar 17, 2006)

Danjo said:
			
		

> Well,
> 
> If that's what a 68 year-old alchoholic looks and moves like, tell me what brand of booze he drank and I'll start drinking it.
> 
> I'd be really interested in seeing some other seniors move in videos at that age for comparison.


 
Lou Angel is about that age, and I pity the fool that would try to mug him.


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## Mekosho (Mar 21, 2006)

My high school history teacher always said "NEVER believe ANYTHING you hear, and only HALF of what you see"!
Makes sense with so many of these stories that go around about many of the past legends, there always seems to be someone standing in the shadows ready to discredit them or capitalize on their short comings...not sure what the reason is for this, but often wonders if it makes thier martial skills better...lol


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## Hand Sword (Mar 22, 2006)

Well put!  He is the Grand Master to the Grand Masters, enough said!


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## Brian Jones (Mar 22, 2006)

I would be the first one to agree that one's personal problems may  or may not have any effect on your abilites as a martial artist. But remembering that even great martial artists are human can be helpful.
  In Prof. Chow's case it cand help us to rmebr that martial arts aren't the cure all for everything and that we must take care of ourselves in all realms of life.

Brian Jones


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## Doc (Mar 23, 2006)

Mr. Parker was always very candid with me regarding Professor Chow. Where he had some 'social problems" being the warrior that he was, alcohol wasn't one of them that I heard about. And I'm sure because of Mr. Parker's very rigid stance on the issue, I'm sure it would have come up.


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## Jonathan Randall (Mar 23, 2006)

Great picture! Thanks for posting it. I definitely prefer your posts and thread for historical Kenpo (and associated arts) over most others.

Some people _always _like to throw stones at individuals who have accomplished more than they ever even dreamed of. Great video as well!


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## Danjo (Mar 24, 2006)

Doc said:
			
		

> Mr. Parker was always very candid with me regarding Professor Chow. Where he had some 'social problems" being the warrior that he was, alcohol wasn't one of them that I heard about. And I'm sure because of Mr. Parker's very rigid stance on the issue, I'm sure it would have come up.


 
I tend to agree with you here. There Are others whom I will not name (though the forum's initials are SJK) who try to say that he was> Pretty talented guy for someone who was supposed to be a drunk.


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## DavidCC (Mar 27, 2006)

Back to teh topic of Mr. Chow... did Fred Villari ever study with him?  I know Nick Cerio made some trips to Hawaii, did he take Fred V with him?

-D


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## sandan (Mar 27, 2006)

it's easy to say negative things about Prof. Chow now that he is no longer with us,  you think anyone would dare say anything derogatory to his face?  I sure as hell wouldn't


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## Doc (Mar 27, 2006)

sandan said:
			
		

> it's easy to say negative things about Prof. Chow now that he is no longer with us,  you think anyone would dare say anything derogatory to his face?  I sure as hell wouldn't


Same with Ed Parker Sr. They reserved their venom and 'stories' for when he was no longer with us.


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## RevIV (Mar 28, 2006)

As a reply back to DavidCC --  I have heard stories that GM Villari trained with Prof. Chow -- But i def. have heard more stories saying that he did not.  With the consistency of the stories on the latter i would question if he was ever there.   I have seen pictures of Prof. Chow / Prof. Chun/ and Prof. Cerio together, and from other (2nd Hand stories) it def. seemed that GM Villari was around when Prof. Cerio was going through his training with Master Chun and Prof. Chow but it does not prove that he was over there with them.  Hopefully Master Bill Chun Jr. will be able to enlighten us more on his father's and Prof Chow's teachings when he comes to New England in July.
In Peace
Jesse Dwire


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## sandan (Mar 29, 2006)

Doc said:
			
		

> Same with Ed Parker Sr. They reserved their venom and 'stories' for when he was no longer with us.


 

Have to agree with you there.  I am a Tracy's student and I know that Tracy guys get a bad rap for bashing Parker.  This is something that shocked me, because the school I come from has always held Mr. Parker in very high regard.  We hold Parker, Chow, and Mitose in the same light; they were all our teachers that deserve our respect, no matter what.  Just a darn shame that there are people out there that don't see it that way.


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## Danjo (Mar 30, 2006)

I never heard that Villari trianed with Chow. I had heard that he went along with Cerio when he would visit Parker for "Coaching" but that it was Cerio that went a few times to Hawaii to train with Chow.


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## DavidCC (Mar 30, 2006)

That's what I thought too, but then I read this



			
				http://www.milfordstudioofselfdefense.com/ said:
			
		

> *During this period he and Nick Cerio corresponded and trained with Professor William K.S. Chow. Villari's approach to Kempo was to maintain the style as he learned it through Chow and that is how it is presented in the Villari System today*


 
anyone know for sure?


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## KenpoDave (Mar 30, 2006)

sandan said:
			
		

> Have to agree with you there. I am a Tracy's student and I know that Tracy guys get a bad rap for bashing Parker. This is something that shocked me, because the school I come from has always held Mr. Parker in very high regard. We hold Parker, Chow, and Mitose in the same light; they were all our teachers that deserve our respect, no matter what. Just a darn shame that there are people out there that don't see it that way.


 
This is the same at every Tracy's school or seminar I have ever attended/visited.


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## LawDog (Mar 30, 2006)

In response to DavidCC,
SGM Cerio did communicate and train with Professor Chow. To the best of my knowledge, and memory, SGM Villari did not. He did train with a chinese master who was related to his wife, for how long I do not know. Villari and his seniors experimented with their system alot.
After breaking the bonds with SGM Cerio Villari began to change his system. Some of the material he kept in it's original form other material he change completely. Villari increased the amount of combinations, gun, knife, club and escape techniques. You had to have a good memory to maintain it all. The forms were altered on a regular basis.


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## Carol (Mar 30, 2006)

That's what I thought too, but then I read this

Quote:
Originally Posted by *http://www.milfordstudioofselfdefense.com/*
_
*During this period he and Nick Cerio corresponded and trained with Professor William K.S. Chow. Villari's approach to Kempo was to maintain the style as he learned it through Chow and that is how it is presented in the Villari System today*

_


anyone know for sure
_________________________________________________

Do I know for sure?   Personally, I don't know for sure.

I'd be interested in finding out.  I've never personally met Professor Shuras, depsite the fact that he is almost in my backyard.  Personally, I think he's a standup guy.  I don't see him putting anything on his website that isn't fact.   I hope to meet some more folks in New England over the next few months...perhaps I'll have a chance to talk with him personally and ask him myself.


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## TChase (Mar 30, 2006)

lady_kaur said:
			
		

> That's what I thought too, but then I read this
> 
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *http://www.milfordstudioofselfdefense.com/*
> ...


 

While I really can't help you on your question about Villari as that is outside my scope of knowledge, I do know Joe Shuras and he is in fact as stand up as they come.  I can shoot him an email with your question if you like.


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## LawDog (Mar 30, 2006)

I to know Joe Shuras and he is a good guy. The statements that I made earlier were from my experience with the USSD. I was with this organization during it's 70's era. During this time I actually owned a USSD franchise. Memories over a 30 plus year are not entirly without fault. 
I do know that some of the material was kept the same and other material was altered to fit Freds ideas. Someplace in my attic I still have a copy of their first instructors book. It was far different from the one that was issued in the late 70's.
Question, who knows the real connection between L.Mangone and Fred Villari?


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## Doc (Mar 30, 2006)

lady_kaur said:
			
		

> That's what I thought too, but then I read this
> 
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *http://www.milfordstudioofselfdefense.com/*
> ...


If Joe says it, believe it.


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## DavidCC (Mar 31, 2006)

I don't want to be mis-construed as having any negative intent towards Prof. Shuras here (some of you know why I am saying that, and why I don't just ask him myself).  Truly, that's not at all why I ask.

As a SK student, I am always trying to learn more aobut the histroy of my style.  This was the first time I ever heard that Villari trained with Chow.  I've read every website, article and interview I ever found about the history of Shaolin Kempo, and this is the first time anyone has ever said (that I have read) that Villari learned from Chow.  

I would think that, if it was true, the Villari camp, and all the descendants my style included), would have made that a part of our "story" a long time ago.  Maybe I am just mis-understand what is written there, maybe they just wrote it in a way that doesn't say exactly what they mean (writing content for a new site can be a LOT of work), I don't know.  It is possible that they mean Villari got a lot of Chow's knowledge through Nick Cerio (some of the wording seems to suggest that), which I can totally believe.

-D


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## stickarts (Mar 31, 2006)

I had a discussion with Nick Cerio many years ago when i first opened my school. The impression that I got was that Nick Cerio trained with Chow and that Villari learned from Cerio.
Unfortunately, that's all that i know! :0)


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## TChase (Mar 31, 2006)

DavidCC said:
			
		

> It is possible that they mean Villari got a lot of Chow's knowledge through Nick Cerio (some of the wording seems to suggest that), which I can totally believe.
> 
> -D


 
That's the way I took it but again, this is something that doesn't concern me.  I'll email him tonight when I get home and find out exactly what he meant.


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## marlon (Apr 11, 2006)

Great video...does it not remind anyone of Fred Villari's form  Shotongkwa?  this is the form he created and gave himself tenth dan for

Respectfully,
marlon


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## TChase (Apr 11, 2006)

TChase said:
			
		

> While I really can't help you on your question about Villari as that is outside my scope of knowledge, I do know Joe Shuras and he is in fact as stand up as they come. I can shoot him an email with your question if you like.


 

I finally got an email back from Joe and he said that he just copied the text from Villari's website and pasted it on his site so he could have a bio of Villari on there.  So I guess the answer is no, he's not claiming that Villari trained with Chow.


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## marlon (Jun 13, 2006)

Does anyone know how Prof. Chow became such a good martial artist?  What did he do to become as good as he was?

Respectfully,
Marlon


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## Danjo (Jun 13, 2006)

marlon said:
			
		

> Does anyone know how Prof. Chow became such a good martial artist? What did he do to become as good as he was?
> 
> Respectfully,
> Marlon


 
The same way a lot of those guys did back then: They fought a LOT. They trained like it was for real, then they would go out and test it in real fights and come back and make adjustments. It very quicly sorts out what works and what doesn't. Prof. Chow would not only fight in the street, he'd go and take on other martial artists that talked crap about him for teaching non-Asians. Sounds like a great training program eh? You could probably emulate it to an extent if you got a job as a bouncer in a tough bar or worked concert security at some of the wilder venues out there.


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## monkey (Jun 13, 2006)

Chief  Anton Krucky  from the Kosho line &  Thomas young remeber teaching Mr.  Chow.He was in the class photo  of black belts I have.
The Kosho line did break into many differant school.
Robert Trais was the firts to do so & teach airmen of the air force.
His school was in Tx.
From what I was told  "Mitose-Trias-Young-Krucky-& the others" trained hard on stances-punching the makiwara-kicks & lots of throws.
 Few strteet fights to test the ways.
The Mitose rank I have of Thomas Young is for the art 
Jujitsu  signed by Mitose.Mitose tought many diferant arts.
I often call Roberta Trias & talk to her a use to talk to Tom Mitose.
I have talks with Dr Gulub on the art!I enjoy the history of how 
each grew to expand thier ideas to new leves & be the pioneers of arts.
Thats what makes the arts.Not the ranks--but pioneers.Proffessor Chow was one of the best--I was told by Anton Krucky & Dr Gulub.Dr Gulub hold 
rank from Robert Trias.


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## Danjo (Jun 13, 2006)

monkey said:
			
		

> Chief Anton Krucky from the Kosho line & Thomas young remeber teaching Mr. Chow.He was in the class photo of black belts I have.
> The Kosho line did break into many differant school.
> Robert Trais was the firts to do so & teach airmen of the air force.
> His school was in Tx.
> ...


 
Errrr....whatever man.


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## Doc (Jun 13, 2006)

marlon said:
			
		

> Does anyone know how Prof. Chow became such a good martial artist?  What did he do to become as good as he was?
> 
> Respectfully,
> Marlon


There was no internet so he had to actually do it instead of talking about it.


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## Danjo (Jun 13, 2006)

Doc said:
			
		

> There was no internet so he had to actually do it instead of talking about it.


 
Amen.


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## KenpoDave (Jun 13, 2006)

I understand from those that met him that it was a combination of several factors:  he was a natural, he spent hours training, he took his training to the street, and he never forgot a movement.


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## marlon (Jun 14, 2006)

a bow of respect to you sir

Marlon



			
				Doc said:
			
		

> There was no internet so he had to actually do it instead of talking about it.


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## NOZR1 (Jun 14, 2006)

Doc said:
			
		

> There was no internet so he had to actually do it instead of talking about it.


 Now that made me laugh right there. Good one! lol


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