# Paleo Diet



## Steve (Aug 12, 2011)

Who's on it?  What do you think of it?  Have you even heard of it?

It's been around for a while, and many of the guys I train with swear by it.  I'm getting back to where I can train consistently again, I've put on a few pounds and am looking to tighten up my diet a little.   I'm curious what you guys think of it, whether or not you have any experience with it, etc.

Just a quick summary, as I understand it, if this is completely new.  It's essentially a caveman diet.  The idea is that we are genetically made to eat certain things, and when we moved away from hunter/gatherer, we started eating things that weren't as good for us.  So, things that are in:  meats, vegetables, saturated fats, coconut and avocado oils, low sugar/high antioxidant fruits (ie blueberries), some nuts that are high in omega 3 oils.  Things that are out: sugars, processed foods, canola/olive oils, unsaturated fats, high sugar fruits, legumes, most nuts, all grains.  

Here's a quick primer: http://paleodietlifestyle.com/paleo-101/


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## Xue Sheng (Aug 12, 2011)

Paleolithic diet

That is pretty much all I know other than I am not a fan of it. I tend more towards Macrobiotics myself... and I am not all that strict there either. 

Balanced Diet is what I look for and the Paleo diet just does not seem balanced to me... but then I'm not a nutritionist either so what do I know


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## elder999 (Aug 12, 2011)

Xue Sheng said:


> Paleolithic diet
> 
> That is pretty much all I know other than I am not a fan of it. I tend more towards Macrobiotics myself... and I am not all that strict there either.
> 
> Balanced Diet is what I look for and the Paleo diet just does not seem balanced to me... but then I'm not a nutritionist either so what do I know



My only objection to it is the name. It's not a bad diet, and not too different from the way I eat, though I'm not a big fan of most organs, and tripe is out of the question, as are brains-especially with elk.

It's not "paleo" anything, though. The people who came up with it haven't thought their rationale through at all......it's not bad, though-very enjoyable.


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## Xue Sheng (Aug 12, 2011)

elder999 said:


> My only objection to it is the name. It's not a bad diet, and not too different from the way I eat, though I'm not a big fan of most organs, and tripe is out of the question, as are brains-especially with elk.
> 
> It's not "paleo" anything, though. The people who came up with it haven't thought their rationale through at all......it's not bad, though-very enjoyable.



Thanks, I am not against it, I just have my doubts... I should probably research it a bit more

But I will admit that My first thought when I first saw it was... how exactly do they know what humans ate in the Paleolithic and what makes them think that in the time since we would have not evolved or changed a bit as far as diet goes.

Besides they likely ate bugs then too and I don't care WHAT you say...I'm not going there just because some guy did in the Paleolithic... even if I CAN find them on the menu in the night market in Bejiing


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## Steve (Aug 12, 2011)

Xue Sheng said:


> Thanks, I am not against it, I just have my doubts... I should probably research it a bit more
> 
> But I will admit that My first thought when I first saw it was... how exactly do they know what humans ate in the Paleolithic and what makes them think that in the time since we would have not evolved or changed a bit as far as diet goes.


Ultimately, I don't know the answer to your questions.  All I know is that this is a very popular diet among MMA'ists, cross fit junkies and in BJJ.  Just curious what you guys know.


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## Xue Sheng (Aug 12, 2011)

stevebjj said:


> Ultimately, I don't know the answer to your questions. All I know is that this is a very popular diet among MMA'ists, cross fit junkies and in BJJ. Just curious what you guys know.



Oh you mean the wannabe old school Jiujitsu types 

Sorry, couldn't resist

There is a book or two out there that might help


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## elder999 (Aug 12, 2011)

stevebjj said:


> Ultimately, I don't know the answer to your questions. All I know is that this is a very popular diet among MMA'ists, cross fit junkies and in BJJ. Just curious what you guys know.



Our paleo ancestors hunted long before they invented spears. THey did it by running game to exhaustion-it's called a "persistence hunt," and it requires large amounts of carbs: root vegetables, vegetables and mushrooms, for sure. In between hunts, they lived the other half of their lifestyle, and gathered these things, as well as, most likely, the grasses they observed the birds and the very mammals they hunted eating. Grasses that became the grains some of us eat today. Amaranth is a common weed. Corn is descended from a combining of two common grasses. I think the paleo crowds real issue with grains isn't celiac disease, or grain itself, but the modern versions of those grains.


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## Bill Mattocks (Aug 12, 2011)

Eat less, exercise more, you lose weight.  That's all.  Diets are bunk.


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## elder999 (Aug 12, 2011)

Bill Mattocks said:


> Eat less, exercise more, you lose weight.



Funny. Sounds like a diet to me. :lol:

Diets like the "paleo" diet aren't about losing weight; they're about lifestyle.


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## Bill Mattocks (Aug 12, 2011)

elder999 said:


> Funny. Sounds like a diet to me. :lol:



OK, but it doesn't have a name, a corporate sponsor, or sell millions of copies when written down.



> Diets like the "paleo" diet aren't about losing weight; they're about lifestyle.



Even more reason to steer clear of 'em.


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## Steve (Aug 12, 2011)

Bill, aren't you the "pry my steak from my cold, dead hands" guy?  Seems like this is right up your alley!

Edit, more to the point, eating healthier is less about weight than about general health.  I remember you posting about your various ailments, and your insistence at the time that you'd eat what you want, cost to your health be damned.  That, whether you like it or not, is a "lifestyle."


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## Archangel M (Aug 12, 2011)

I have never tried it but I don't think you can go wrong giving it a shot. The whole red meat=BAD thing has been revisited. Now they are saying that charring/over grilling is worse for you than anything in the meat itself. Same thing with salt. I believe that the current data shows that high blood pressure has little to do with salt intake. I have seen so many dietary contradictions over the years I don't know what to believe anymore. Eat in balance, don't eat to excess, enjoy what you eat (better dead a few years sooner but happy than a few years latter choking down stuff you detest I say).


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## Omar B (Aug 12, 2011)

I'm on paleo.  I was pretty close to it last year but then a friend mailed me a copy of the book he got.  Turns out I was doing paleo for the most part, except I was still eating dairy.  Seems fine so far, I can't talk about huge changes in myself considering the only thing really changed is dairy.

My step sister though lost nearly 50 pounds since Feb on it as recommended by her nutritionist or doctor or some crap like that.  I've only seen her twice since then but she looks great.


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## Bill Mattocks (Aug 12, 2011)

stevebjj said:


> Bill, aren't you the "pry my steak from my cold, dead hands" guy?  Seems like this is right up your alley!



I don't really care for steak, but I do like me some beef.  Hamburgers, for example.



> Edit, more to the point, eating healthier is less about weight than about general health.  I remember you posting about your various ailments, and your insistence at the time that you'd eat what you want, cost to your health be damned.  That, whether you like it or not, is a "lifestyle."



Not entirely.  I avoid sugar because it's like poison to me now that I'm diabetic; I've also given up beer for the same reason.  But other than that, yes, I eat pretty much what I want.  And it's not 'health be damned', it's more that I don't think my body knows the difference between a 'good' calorie and a bad one.  If you get the calories your body needs, and the nutrients, it doesn't matter if it's in raw meat, candy bars, or iceberg lettuce.

A 'lifestyle'?  I doubt you could sell it on Oprah.


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## Bill Mattocks (Aug 12, 2011)

Archangel M said:


> I have never tried it but I don't think you can go wrong giving it a shot. The whole red meat=BAD thing has been revisited. Now they are saying that charring/over grilling is worse for you than anything in the meat itself. Same thing with salt. I believe that the current data shows that high blood pressure has little to do with salt intake. I have seen so many dietary contradictions over the years I don't know what to believe anymore. Eat in balance, don't eat to excess, enjoy what you eat (better dead a few years sooner but happy than a few years latter choking down stuff you detest I say).



There you have it.  +1 to you.

By the way, the latest "used to be good for you, now we think it will kill you" is antioxidants.  Apparently.

http://www.slate.com/id/2300578/


> As it turns out, we have no evidence that antioxidants are beneficial in humans. (Though if you're a Sprague-Dawley rat, there's hope.) In fact, as Emily Anthes wrote last year in Slate, the best available data demonstrate that antioxidants are bad for you&#8212;so long as you count an increased risk of death as "bad."



Yeah, I have to laugh at the guys who run from one magic elixir to the next, only to have it turned around on them in a few years.  I ate eggs when they were bad, when they were good again, when they were bad again, when they were good but just if you only ate the whites, when they were bad again and now I think they're back to being good - and I don't care!  Eggs taste good and I'm going to keep eating them.  Note to Steve; not _'health be damned'_ but _"I'll be damned if I'll believe all the hype about eggs."_


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## Omar B (Aug 12, 2011)

Couldn't edit my previous post so here is a link to that book my bud had sent me.  http://www.amazon.com/Paleo-Diet-Weight-Healthy-Designed/dp/0471413909


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## Carol (Aug 12, 2011)

I know a couple of people doing crossfit that are really in to it.  They basically say that paleo plus heavy workouts is fitness nirvana.

Drawbacks, on the surface it looks to be an expensive way of eating to maintain, and also difficult to maintain day after day.  It seems to be more suited to a person that doesn't travel, always brown bags their lunch and rarely goes to restaurants.


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## clfsean (Aug 13, 2011)

I'm about to start it... or something very close to it to help with arthritis found in my right hip this week. It was recommended by a nutritionalist (not "the paleo" but a plan close enough to it to use) for helping the joint itself & in muscle building since I've joined a gym to get a more directed workout for hips.


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## CanuckMA (Aug 14, 2011)

Bill Mattocks said:


> .  And it's not 'health be damned', it's more that I don't think my body knows the difference between a 'good' calorie and a bad one.  If you get the calories your body needs, and the nutrients, it doesn't matter if it's in raw meat, candy bars, or iceberg lettuce.
> 
> .



QFT.

I have a friend who is a vegan. She is severely overweight because she eats too much starches. It's not about what you eat as much as how much.

calories in=calories out. Change that balance and you either gain or lose weight.


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## Carol (Aug 14, 2011)

Here is a link to a blog by a couple in NH that are big in to crossfit as well as the Paleo diet, in case it is of interest.

http://www.whole9life.com/


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## crushing (Aug 15, 2011)

Carol said:


> I know a couple of people doing crossfit that are really in to it. They basically say that paleo plus heavy workouts is fitness nirvana.
> 
> Drawbacks, on the surface it looks to be an expensive way of eating to maintain, and also difficult to maintain day after day. It seems to be more suited to a person that doesn't travel, always brown bags their lunch and rarely goes to restaurants.



I agree with your comments.  I work with a crossfitter that is also a paleo diet proponent.  He swears by it.  We had a department picnic last week and for fun I decided to make my dish to pass a paleo one so he would have more options.  That was the most expensive hummus and chips I ever made!  I don't think he was a fan of the hummus, but he loved the chips.

If anyone is interested in the recipes, check them out here:  http://libidiny.blogspot.com/2010/08/there-have-been-many-times-since-began.html


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## harlan (Aug 15, 2011)

I would be VERY interested in the specs of this plan. I've been on a pseudo-'paleo' diet, low-carb/sufficient protein for years now. Worked extremely well to take off excess weight (85 lbs), but with ostearthritis restricting my ability to exercise am looking to tweak that diet. I haven't heard of anything, other than supplements and fish, that directly impact arthritis. (Feel free to pm, as I don't want to derail the thread.  )



clfsean said:


> I'm about to start it... or something very close to it to help with arthritis found in my right hip this week. It was recommended by a nutritionalist (not "the paleo" but a plan close enough to it to use) for helping the joint itself & in muscle building since I've joined a gym to get a more directed workout for hips.


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## punisher73 (Aug 15, 2011)

I think it's just marketing hype and some really bad rationalization to justify the hype/sell.

Now, let me explain....our "paleolithic" ancestors were NOT known for their longevity, life expectancy was around 54 years old (taking into account early deaths before the age of 15) Next, we have to assume that man's systems have NOT evolved at all during that time period. For example, milk. Everyone talks about how animals are lactose intolerant and you shouldn't drink milk or eat dairy because of the lactose intolerance (hormones aside), but lactose TOLERANCE was a gene that was mutated and passed on to humans so we CAN eat/drink dairy for many of us without side effects.

Is the diet effective?  Sure, so is healthy eating.  Do people feel better when they start this diet?  Sure, so would anyone when you start cutting out all the artificial chemicals you are putting into your body.

If you want to sum up ANY diet without the hype here it is: Eat lean cuts of meat and plenty of fresh fruits and vegetables. Avoid things out of a box or processed foods. Exercise daily and don't eat more than you need to.


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## crushing (Aug 15, 2011)

So, it's a healthful and effective diet consisting of just marketing hype that supported by bad rationalization?


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## elder999 (Aug 15, 2011)

punisher73 said:


> Now, let me explain....our "paleolithic" ancestors were NOT known for their longevity, life expectancy was around 54 years old (taking into account early deaths before the age of 15) Next, we have to assume that man's systems have NOT evolved at all during that time period. For example, milk. Everyone talks about how animals are lactose intolerant and you shouldn't drink milk or eat dairy because of the lactose intolerance (hormones aside), but lactose TOLERANCE was a gene that was mutated and passed on to humans so we CAN eat/drink dairy for many of us without side effects.



It's also worth pointing out that lactose tolerance is a product of our evolution for specific phenotypes, and _only about 10,000 years old._

The high-altitude tolerance of the Tibetans is even younger.


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## searcher (Aug 15, 2011)

I have been on it in the past, as it is pushed big time in the CrossFit circles that I hang in.    I am currently on the Primal Diet setup by Mark Sisson.     I like it much better, seems to be more "do-able."      The Paleo can get you some crazy good results if you are strict with it.     I am all for anything that is pro-meat and anti-grain.     I have never felt better than when I eat Primal/Paleo/Grain free/.......


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## punisher73 (Aug 16, 2011)

crushing said:


> So, it's a healthful and effective diet consisting of just marketing hype that supported by bad rationalization?



In my opinion, "yes".  Let's assume for a second that the hunters were successful EVERY TIME they went out in a party.  By the time they either got the big animal killed and ready to take back or got enough of the smaller animals to feed the tribe, how much time is left in the day?  If you look at hunter/gatherer tribes that still existed and were documented by anthropologists in the early 1900's, they were mostly gatherers with only a small component of meat that was given by the hunters.  Yet, the diets claim that meat was a large component and have you eat the vast majority of your diet on meats, which wasn't the case.

If you want to use their "logic" on dietary evolution, then humans are* not *designed to be mainly carnivores based on our digestive tracts and teeth.  We are more designed to eat fruits and vegetables.  Because we eat more and more meat we have developed genes to allow us to handle that, just like grains and dairy.  So I find it faulty that we can allow one type of gene evolution, but not others.


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## crushing (Jun 29, 2012)

searcher said:


> I have been on it in the past, as it is pushed big time in the CrossFit circles that I hang in. I am currently on the Primal Diet setup by Mark Sisson. I like it much better, seems to be more "do-able." The Paleo can get you some crazy good results if you are strict with it. I am all for anything that is pro-meat and anti-grain. I have never felt better than when I eat Primal/Paleo/Grain free/.......



My Paleo/Crossfit friend that I mentioned previoiusly in this thread has moved more towards Primal for nutrition and SealFit for exercise.  As I am reading more about Primal I have started to adopt a more Primal diet over the last couple weeks.  The last few days I've been reading Sisson's ideas regarding exercise they sound good to me.  By the way, I've lost about 10 pounds in the last couple weeks and it was a great feeling this morning when easily slipped my work slacks on and they weren't so snug around the waist.

I won't go completely Paleo or Primal, I enjoy quaffing a grain based drink nearly every evening.


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## Gnarlie (Jun 29, 2012)

Carol said:


> Drawbacks, on the surface it looks to be an expensive way of eating to maintain, and also difficult to maintain day after day.  It seems to be more suited to a person that doesn't travel, always brown bags their lunch and rarely goes to restaurants.



I keep a diet that has the same lifestyle parameters.   At first, this sounds limiting.   You find ways.  You mitigate the cost in other areas if it bothers you.  I buy expensive dairy free confectionery...but I'm not buying expensive meat. I don't brown bag, I just do a little research before I travel.  I know what i like to eat and where to get it.  This became habit very quickly, so I wouldn't let those reasons hold you back. 



CanuckMA said:


> QFT.
> 
> I have a friend who is a vegan. She is severely overweight because she eats too much starches. It's not about what you eat as much as how much.
> 
> calories in=calories out. Change that balance and you either gain or lose weight.



It would be very easy to be overweight as a vegan.  There are many processed products on the market and a lot of people make the switch without finding out what it's really about.  That's why we hear so many horror stories about unhealthy vegans.  It can be a balanced diet if carefully planned, though. 

Experimentation with veganism and other diets has certainly made me more aware of what I am or am not putting into my body, and that awareness can only be good.  I'd say 90 per cent of the people I meet who ask me about my food reveal that they never really think too much about the health benefits or drawbacks of their dietary habits. 



Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2


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## shesulsa (Jun 29, 2012)

Bill Mattocks said:


> Eat less, exercise more, you lose weight.  That's all.  Diets are bunk.



That's just math for weight loss - it says nothing about the quality of the food you ingest.

I think trying to eat for a caveman lifestyle would be smart if you're a caveman.

If the quality of the calories you're taking in don't matter then we wouldn't have diet-based illnesses or conditions affected by what we take in.

I just try - *try* mind you - to eat as much stuff without a label as possible, I try to stay away from *starch* and consume whole grains instead ... limit the carbs after noon, drink water flavored with berries or a splash of fresh-squeezed citrus juice.  If I had the resources to do so, I'd buy all organic, local, seasonal with limited supplements.

I will admit to the more-than-occasional eggs fried in bacon grease, more often than I should have them cheeseburgers and the occasional coke. *sigh* The flesh is weak.


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## Carol (Jun 29, 2012)

There was a study in Boston that supports the notion that a low-glycemic diet has many advantages over low-carb and low-fat diets.  If I'm not mistaken, Paleo, Primal and similar diets are all low-glycemic.  

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505269_162-57461579/study-not-all-calories-are-created-equal/


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## elder999 (Jun 29, 2012)

Here's a persistence hunt:






100 degee temps. 8 hours of running. You're not gonna do that on a stomach full of steak.....:lol:


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## JWLuiza (Jun 30, 2012)

Carol said:


> There was a study in Boston that supports the notion that a low-glycemic diet has many advantages over low-carb and low-fat diets.  If I'm not mistaken, Paleo, Primal and similar diets are all low-glycemic.
> 
> http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505269_162-57461579/study-not-all-calories-are-created-equal/



I've read the study in JAMA and think there will be more to this in the future. The low-carb dieters had an increase in CRP (c-reactive protein) which is associated with risk for heart disease, however they had beneficial lipid changes which are also a modifier for vascular disease. What is interesting is this diet probably didn't use grass-fed vs. corn fed beef and there was no focus on omega-3 consumption. I predict in 5-10 years a lower carb diet with an appropriate fat profile will be the standard for weight loss and maintenance.


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## JWLuiza (Jun 30, 2012)

And the study showed the low-carb dieters had the best metabolic profile other than cortisol and CRP. I'd love to see longer term evaluations of these diets and a breakdown of the types of protein/fats and omega-3 consumption in all arms of the study.


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## ETinCYQX (Jun 30, 2012)

Bill Mattocks said:


> Eat less, exercise more, you lose weight.  That's all.  Diets are bunk.



"diets" and "nutrition" are not the same thing. Crappy fuel nets crappy results.


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## crushing (Jul 2, 2012)

elder999 said:


> Here's a persistence hunt:
> 
> 100 degee temps. 8 hours of running. You're not gonna do that on a stomach full of steak.....:lol:




They look like they are pretty good at portion control, by choice or not.


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## Isebell (Nov 22, 2012)

Thanks for sharing amazing post. I'm big lover of green vegetables and fruits. I have thoroughly read about Paleo diet, it looks amazing for health and fitness. Yet I've not tried it but I'll.


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## Josh Oakley (Nov 23, 2012)

I just don't see how the dietary requirements (whether or not the paleo diet reflects them) of Homo Habilis will match the requirements for me. I just did my lifestyle change simply. I worked out, and paid attention to what my body was wanting. If what I was eating made me feel loagy, I tried something else. If it made me feel more energetic and happier, I made a note of it. In about a year I lost 50 lbs. And it stayed off. And I feel better. I kept it simple.

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