# Meditation => Martial Fighting Art?



## hc.ss11 (Dec 24, 2009)

Is it possible to transform a meditation form, e.g. Falun Gong, into a martial fighting style?


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## Xue Sheng (Dec 24, 2009)

I am not a big fan of Fulan Gong (but I will not get into that here) nor do I know thing one about the Qigong of Fulan Gong and I do not want to know anymore than I already do about Fulan Gong so I cannot say.

However there are supposedly fighting applications to some Qigong forms, for example Ba Duan Jin and 5 Animals


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## pete (Dec 24, 2009)

Can't say I know anything about Falun Gong specifically, but meditation practices are integrated within martial art styles to train one to regulate the breath, calm the mind, and stay in the moment... all good things to do when faced with a stressful situation, ie self defense scenario.

pete.


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## ggg214 (Dec 24, 2009)

i know it because it's illegal here. no one is allowed to do it in any place. if you do, policeman will "help" you out!


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## oxy (Dec 25, 2009)

hc.ss11 said:


> Is it possible to transform a meditation form, e.g. Falun Gong, into a martial fighting style?



I wouldn't see the point of it since there are a lot of integrated teachings out there already. Falun Gong is also just a basic style of qigong so you won't actually have that much to work with.

That being said, depending on your existing martial arts skill, you could transform any posture, qigong or otherwise, to a fighting action.


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## Tensei85 (Dec 25, 2009)

hc.ss11 said:


> Is it possible to transform a meditation form, e.g. Falun Gong, into a martial fighting style?


 
Ya sure it is especially for Falun Dafa, they can fly, instantly teleport & shoot blasts of energy especially &#26446;&#27946;&#24535;!

Oh and don't forget &#26446;&#27946;&#24535; is the only one making money off of that endeavor, sounds like a normal Qigong group.

I would recommend "NOT" getting involved in it especially if you have any prospects in China!


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## oxy (Dec 30, 2009)

I don't remember reading about that in that Zhuan Falun book of theirs...

(disclaimer: not a practitioner)

Do we have any reliability that these criticisms of Falun Gong aren't from the CCP propaganda machine? I don't understand why people distrust the Falun Gong group more than the stuff we hear that seems to originate from the CCP's own crackdown of Falun Gong...

(disclaimer: seriously, not a practitioner of any qigong)


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## wushuguy (Dec 30, 2009)

Tensei85 said:


> Ya sure it is especially for Falun Dafa, they can fly, instantly teleport & shoot blasts of energy especially &#26446;&#27946;&#24535;!
> 
> Oh and don't forget &#26446;&#27946;&#24535; is the only one making money off of that endeavor, sounds like a normal Qigong group.
> 
> I would recommend "NOT" getting involved in it especially if you have any prospects in China!



lol. last year I was curious about chinese opera and went to their new year splendor show in NYC. overall it was interesting, but overly religious... I mean c'mon now they invite all people to watch a show, but during the intermissions they sing songs about the Dafa guy being the ruler of the universe... seems like trying to indoctrinate people subtly.

If you want to watch good classical chinese opera, perhaps one still should travel to see the beijing opera.

but back to the topic, ... meditation is included in many martial arts. however not all meditation can be a martial art. Have to see what the purpose of it is and what usefulness it has.


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## Xue Sheng (Dec 30, 2009)

oxy said:


> I don't remember reading about that in that Zhuan Falun book of theirs...
> 
> (disclaimer: not a practitioner)
> 
> ...


 
Other than my wife and her family lived there when this mess started and witnessed some of it... 

Also, you read Chinese, get their free paper once and read it... the PRC propaganda machine has got NOTHING compared to Fulan Gong's


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## oxy (Dec 31, 2009)

Well, I'm an atheist and I tend to be very aware of encroaching by spiritual groups. Let's just say that Falun Gong is harmless, if the rumours are to be believed, compared to Scientology. I think that the disproportionate response by the CCP to this matter suggests that its opposition to Falun Gong is political more than any interest in safety.

It seems it's more afraid that because Falun Gong has no structure but that it's also capable of moving a lot of people in very short time, and to me anything capable of putting terror into CCP officials is a good thing. It's very telling that the crackdown happened after large protests. The speed and numbers of the gatherers definitely shook the party's sense of control.

Whatever can be said about Falun Gong, the actions of the Scientology nuts are actually scary, but I still wouldn't wish the same torture on them.


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## Xue Sheng (Dec 31, 2009)

oxy said:


> Well, I'm an atheist and I tend to be very aware of encroaching by spiritual groups. Let's just say that Falun Gong is harmless, if the rumours are to be believed, compared to Scientology. I think that the disproportionate response by the CCP to this matter suggests that its opposition to Falun Gong is political more than any interest in safety.
> 
> It seems it's more afraid that because Falun Gong has no structure but that it's also capable of moving a lot of people in very short time, and to me anything capable of putting terror into CCP officials is a good thing. It's very telling that the crackdown happened after large protests. The speed and numbers of the gatherers definitely shook the party's sense of control.
> 
> Whatever can be said about Falun Gong, the actions of the Scientology nuts are actually scary, but I still wouldn't wish the same torture on them.


 
Actually, I don't think it is so much fear as annoy and they do not move as many people as they would have you think. 

Look here
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=33728/#11 

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=71384/#7


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## oxy (Dec 31, 2009)

Some of that sounds fishy to me. I mean that part about the claim that the families saying "we don't want them". That sounds like something that the CCP fabricates.

I know it's not related to Falun Gong, but this is the kind of thing the CCP does: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Tai#Pollution . Besides that there was the whole SARS thing. Or what about the tainted milk and toothpaste. People are getting jailed for exposing stuff like that. Any thing coming out of China is just inherently unreliable.

And, excuse my brashness, but I personally have doubts about the people who WERE there. My experience with talking to a few of these people is that they really buy into what the CCP says is true. They don't question at all. Not just on the Falun Gong stuff. They even believe that the CCP did all the "important" fighting against the Japanese and the KMT did absolutely nothing.

Incidentally that is why I don't believe the exaggeration by the Falun Gong group that the CCP is crumbling. The majority of Chinese believe what the government says.

Even for the people who were there at the time, it's clear most of the news they get is second or third hand. They were "there" but they heard it from someone else who heard it from the government news but it gets a psychologically boosted level of trustworthiness because they hear it from a lot of people. Seriously, look the psychology up. The same thing happened with the whole Iraq thing.

The evidence to me is that the CCP is just the bigger villain here. I wouldn't be surprised if CCP sponsored people infiltrated Falun Gong and helped with the newspapers you say you get. For a similar incident just look at all the pro-CCP/anti-Tibet protestors at the Olympic Torch business. It's easy to see that they were paid to protest. And you know what, I bet every genuine form of Qigong can be traced back to having claims as ridiculous as that by the Falun Gong.

I've read some of the Zhuan Falun and they make the classic New Age blunder of disparaging science unless they can interpret it to support their claims. A lot of the time in the book they over extend the conclusions drawn from it. But I'll also say go spend a lot of time with a genuine Qigong teacher from China. If you stick around long enough they'll start to say similarly incredible stuff.

If you follow the links on the Falun Gong Wikipedia page, you'll find a link to the Chinese professor that started the whole persecution thing. He wasn't just criticizing Falun Gong. He was critical of ALL of Qigong and Chinese medicine and similar stuff. So if people are not hypocritical about their criticism of Falun Gong, they should be just as critical about all of Qigong.


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## Xue Sheng (Jan 4, 2010)

Let me start by saying I first read this Friday morning and wrote a response in a Word Doc that I decided not to post since I did not want to give the Mods to much to deal with and I did not wish to get banned because of you. You crosses a line with this post my friend and I will explain more in the following response. Also note I will be reporting myself to the mods for off topic right after I hit the &#8220;submit reply&#8221; button.



oxy said:


> Some of that sounds fishy to me. I mean that part about the claim that the families saying "we don't want them". That sounds like something that the CCP fabricates.


 
It's a summary, made by me, of a rather long story not a direct quote by the PRC whether or not if it sounds fishy to you I really don&#8217;t care.



oxy said:


> And, excuse my brashness, but I personally have doubts about the people who WERE there. My experience with talking to a few of these people is that they really buy into what the CCP says is true. They don't question at all. Not just on the Falun Gong stuff. They even believe that the CCP did all the "important" fighting against the Japanese and the KMT did absolutely nothing.


 
That is where you crossed the line and no I do not think I will excuse your brashness this time.

The people I am talking about are &#8220;Family&#8221; and I am rather offended that you are telling me my family is either weak minded, brain washed or out right lying.

While you are living safely in Australia (is that right, if not I apologize but I know it is not mainland and likely never has been and most certainly not Beijing and have you even ever visited Beijing? Likely most of this (possibly all) was before you were born) These people lost a whole lot of land to the Communists when they took, and lived through the Cultural revolution in Beijing and one even seriously contemplated suicide it got so bad. My brother-in-law was one of the guys climbing on tanks when Tiananmen was going on, my wife lived incredibly close to Tiananmen and heard the gunshots and 2 of her colleagues from the hospital got shot in Tiananmen while they were there helping sick and injured students just prior to the tanks rolling in. So I do believe they are very aware of what the Communists are capable of and what reality in China today is and what it was in the past. 

They were there, they saw what as going on with Fulan Gong and I take facts from Eye witnesses over speculations from someone living thousands of miles away. They have also witnessed Buddhist, Christian, Taoist and other religious activities that the PRC couldn&#8217;t care less about. However Fulan Gong got in their face and MADE it an issue and bottom-line you get in the face of the PRC and they will make you wish you hadn&#8217;t. 

As to the KMT, I have never heard any of my family or any other person in or from China say this they are rather aware that during the war that both KMT and PRC fought together against the Japanese. They only thing I have ever heard them say about the KMT is that they are as guilty as the PRC when it comes to committing atrocities against the Chinese people. 



oxy said:


> Even for the people who were there at the time, its clear most of the news they get is second or third hand. They were "there" but they heard it from someone else who heard it from the government news but it gets a psychologically boosted level of trustworthiness because they hear it from a lot of people. Seriously, look the psychology up. The same thing happened with the whole Iraq thing.


 
And now you are telling me I need to read Psychology to understand, do you read what you post before you post it or are you just that certain that you are always right and can say whatever you want and we all should just bow down to the intellect that is Oxy. And for the record, China is not Iraq and Hu Jintao is not Saddam Hussein and China, unlike the Iraq of Saddam Hussein, is Athiest not Muslim. I tend to think that what is said by people that my wife knows personally that got SHOT in Tiananmen is not all that untrustworthy a source. However how close to the source are you since you live thousands of miles away. 

Is there propaganda in the PRC? Yup. But check any government there is ALWAYS propaganda to varying degrees and of course there is always the Fulan Gong paper that is FULL of propaganda with a smattering of facts, can&#8217;t lie to much about the weather you know. I also have friends that are from mainland China and we have all sorts of discussions about things they witnessed in China and some in Tibet one saw a woman shot by the PRC military just because she had a book that was technically banned and you know what they to tend to feel Fulan Gong is a cult too and they also did not tell me a second or third hand story about what they &#8220;saw&#8221;. However you in fact are basing your facts on second and third hand accounts, if it is that close to the source. I also know a woman who lives in the US now that was a member of Fulan Gong and after being in it for awhile she said things just didn&#8217;t feel right and she did quit. However the fact that they allowed her to quit shows if they are a cult they are going about it in a slightly different way but she is not willing to call them a cult. But she is now attempting to get her mother to quit, who still lives on mainland, because she no longer feels comfortable with Fulan Gong



oxy said:


> The evidence to me is that the CCP is just the bigger villain here. I wouldn't be surprised if CCP sponsored people infiltrated Falun Gong and helped with the newspapers you say you get. For a similar incident just look at all the pro-CCP/anti-Tibet protestors at the Olympic Torch business. It's easy to see that they were paid to protest. And you know what, I bet every genuine form of Qigong can be traced back to having claims as ridiculous as that by the Falun Gong.


 
You do realize for someone who is so adamant about not being a member of Fulan Gong that you are sure talking like one 

Is the PRC free? No and I do not think I said it was. Does just about every single person in China know what to do and not to do to stay on the good side of the Government? Yes. Did the members of Fulan Gong know this when they decided to make an issue with the PRC? Yes. Was their founder on a plane for the US with all their follower cash while the members he sent to protest were getting arrested, before the PRC came to arrest him? Yes. 



oxy said:


> I've read some of the Zhuan Falun and they make the classic New Age blunder of disparaging science unless they can interpret it to support their claims. A lot of the time in the book they over extend the conclusions drawn from it. But I'll also say go spend a lot of time with a genuine Qigong teacher from China. If you stick around long enough they'll start to say similarly incredible stuff.


 
Speaking of second and third hand knowledge&#8230;.ummm you ever talk to an actual Qigong teacher form Mainland or a TCM Doc trained on mainland about Qigong? 



oxy said:


> If you follow the links on the Falun Gong Wikipedia page, you'll find a link to the Chinese professor that started the whole persecution thing. He wasn't just criticizing Falun Gong. He was critical of ALL of Qigong and Chinese medicine and similar stuff. So if people are not hypocritical about their criticism of Falun Gong, they should be just as critical about all of Qigong.


 
He did not start the persecution of Fulan Gong and there was a move in China against TCM and Qigong that has been being debated for a couple of years now this is not news and this is a topic of discussion of the medical community in China for awhile now. You might want to check your Wikipedia source

You talk about people that live in China as weak minded or covering up and giving out second or third hand knowledge but yet you are basing your entire post on second or third hand knowledge if it is that close. And we are done, the quickest way to piss me off is to go after or make remarks against my family and you crossed that line. All that remains is whether or not to make you the sole occupant of my ignore list.


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## Tensei85 (Jan 4, 2010)

wushuguy said:


> lol. last year I was curious about chinese opera and went to their new year splendor show in NYC. overall it was interesting, but overly religious... I mean c'mon now they invite all people to watch a show, but during the intermissions they sing songs about the Dafa guy being the ruler of the universe... seems like trying to indoctrinate people subtly.
> 
> If you want to watch good classical chinese opera, perhaps one still should travel to see the beijing opera.
> 
> but back to the topic, ... meditation is included in many martial arts. however not all meditation can be a martial art. Have to see what the purpose of it is and what usefulness it has.


 

Ya, I hear ya on that. 

As for meditation for me personally non-martial meditation has been beneficial, things like Samadhi practice. Also Taoist type of Qi Gong including  &#22823;&#21608;&#22825;/&#23567;&#21608;&#22825; da/xiao zhou tian, I've had good results with. 

Counting breaths,
abdominal breathing,
reverse abdominal breathing...


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## oxy (Jan 5, 2010)

Xue Sheng said:


> It's a summary, made by me, of a rather long story not a direct quote by the PRC whether or not if it sounds fishy to you I really don&#8217;t care.



That just makes it more fishy.



> That is where you crossed the line and no I do not think I will excuse your brashness this time.
> 
> The people I am talking about are &#8220;Family&#8221; and I am rather offended that you are telling me my family is either weak minded, brain washed or out right lying.



And I couldn't care less how you choose to take it. The people I was talking about weren't your family but from my experiences talking with people from the mainland.



> While you are living safely in Australia (is that right, if not I apologize but I know it is not mainland and likely never has been and most certainly not Beijing and have you even ever visited Beijing? Likely most of this (possibly all) was before you were born) These people lost a whole lot of land to the Communists when they took, and lived through the Cultural revolution in Beijing and one even seriously contemplated suicide it got so bad. My brother-in-law was one of the guys climbing on tanks when Tiananmen was going on, my wife lived incredibly close to Tiananmen and heard the gunshots and 2 of her colleagues from the hospital got shot in Tiananmen while they were there helping sick and injured students just prior to the tanks rolling in. So I do believe they are very aware of what the Communists are capable of and what reality in China today is and what it was in the past.



Luckily, my family escaped the Communists JUST after the war, so no I can't claim anyone close to me went through all that, but Hong Kong is not exactly halfway across the world.

I didn't say your family are not aware of what the CCP is capable. I was more responding to your comment in one of the links to the other thread where you said something like "the PRC is not as oppressive as it is portrayed in the West". It's no East Germany, but oppression doesn't have to be in your face about it. Can't look at the surface of these things.



> They were there, they saw what as going on with Fulan Gong and I take facts from Eye witnesses over speculations from someone living thousands of miles away. They have also witnessed Buddhist, Christian, Taoist and other religious activities that the PRC couldn&#8217;t care less about. However Fulan Gong got in their face and MADE it an issue and bottom-line you get in the face of the PRC and they will make you wish you hadn&#8217;t.



Unless they were there at the interrogations, there's no such thing as Eye Witnesses in the PRC. I may be thousands of miles away, but no one has any idea what goes on with the chain of command. My views on this is supported by history.



> As to the KMT, I have never heard any of my family or any other person in or from China say this they are rather aware that during the war that both KMT and PRC fought together against the Japanese. They only thing I have ever heard them say about the KMT is that they are as guilty as the PRC when it comes to committing atrocities against the Chinese people.



Again, I wasn't talking about your family. You were, but I wasn't. I've seriously talked to people who believe that stuff. They weren't saying the KMT didn't fight, but that the KMT didn't fight the important battles.




> And now you are telling me I need to read Psychology to understand, do you read what you post before you post it or are you just that certain that you are always right and can say whatever you want and we all should just bow down to the intellect that is Oxy.



Or maybe you're reading what you want and completely have no idea what I was going on about with my psychology comment. I was saying it's completely possible for well informed members of any community to be COMPLETELY DUPED into believing unsubstantiated popular opinion, despite their intelligence.

You may want to turn this into talk about "weak mindedness" or what have you, but you're denying psychological studies based on hubris. The fact is the strongest minds can still believe in the wrong things simply because they've heard something repeated a lot. You seem to think that eye witnesses are the strongest evidence, yet proper scientific studies show that eye witnesses are just as prone to faulty memory and faulty assurance of their understanding of the situation.

But whatever. It seems martial artists these days prefer strong words over logic and reason.



> You do realize for someone who is so adamant about not being a member of Fulan Gong that you are sure talking like one



Oh here it comes: guilt by association. What you're saying is about the same as if I said that you support the PRC's actions because you practice the police version of Sanda.

Me talking like a member of Falun Gong? Who was it who even questioned Taiji's claim to health a year or so ago? Who here tends to bring up the issues about logical fallacies? Elsewhere on the net, I dispel a lot of pseudo-scientific and outright lunatic beliefs.

What you don't seem to understand is that even though I'm an atheist, I'm also a secular humanist, which believes in the right to believe. As such I don't believe in the hate directed at members of any cult, whether Falun Gong or Scientology. I reserve the right to criticize the beliefs based on evidence, but that's not the issue here, was it?



> Is the PRC free? No and I do not think I said it was. Does just about every single person in China know what to do and not to do to stay on the good side of the Government? Yes. Did the members of Fulan Gong know this when they decided to make an issue with the PRC? Yes. Was their founder on a plane for the US with all their follower cash while the members he sent to protest were getting arrested, before the PRC came to arrest him? Yes.



Does this mean EVERY member of Falun Gong is into the scam?

Whatever Li Hongzi does, the hate directed at Falun Gong members in general is unjustified. Guilt by association strikes again.



> Speaking of second and third hand knowledge&#8230;.ummm you ever talk to an actual Qigong teacher form Mainland or a TCM Doc trained on mainland about Qigong?



So are you saying that all THROUGHOUT history, all 7000 years of it, no Qigong practice ever claimed to result in superhuman abilities?



> He did not start the persecution of Fulan Gong and there was a move in China against TCM and Qigong that has been being debated for a couple of years now this is not news and this is a topic of discussion of the medical community in China for awhile now. You might want to check your Wikipedia source



I never said it was news. He did not start the persecution, but he was instrumental in getting action done.



> You talk about people that live in China as weak minded or covering up and giving out second or third hand knowledge but yet you are basing your entire post on second or third hand knowledge if it is that close. And we are done, the quickest way to piss me off is to go after or make remarks against my family and you crossed that line. All that remains is whether or not to make you the sole occupant of my ignore list.



You say mine is second or third hand knowledge, yet you want me to accept your facts, but that would STILL make it second or third hand knowledge in my case.

Like I said, I wasn't addressing your family, but also other people who were there and have drank the CCP Kool Aid. You were the one who made this about your family while none of my posts made any reference.

So go right the hell ahead and put me on your ignore list. I don't think I can handle someone who twists people's posts so they can exercise their holier-than-thou righteousness. Me crossing your line is your imagination. However, you crossed my line by trying to imply my guilt through an implied but incorrect association. That was unbecoming of you, but at least it exposed you for the kind of person you are. (I actually don't have a line that people can cross, but since we're playing that game..., however I do tend to remember people through their reasoning ability)


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## tshadowchaser (Jan 5, 2010)

Ok now that we have had that discussion from the two of you lets get back to the subject of meditation helping or being able to be transmitted into helping martial artists in fighting or other aspects of the martial arts. I believe the question involved the Falun Gong meditation in particular so if anyone has knowledge of that particular form of meditation lets hear from them.
If you wish to discuss Falun Gong start a new thread


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## jks9199 (Jan 5, 2010)

Folks, 
Discussions about the Chinese government are probably better suited to The Study.  I believe the topic here was about whether or not meditation oriented arts could be used combatively.  Let's stick to that, OK?


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## Grenadier (Jan 5, 2010)

_*ATTENTION ALL USERS:*_

Please, return to the original topic.  If you wish to start a new discussion concerning the other topics, then do so in the appropriate forum.  

-Ronald Shin
-MT Supermoderator


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## Tensei85 (Jan 5, 2010)

Personally, just my opinion...

I don't feel meditation in & of itself can be used specifically for Fighting, it has a lot of benefits as far as psychologically & even physiologically. It relaxes the mind, calms the body, retains better attention, a lot of different benefits for both mind & body(Which can be applied per say on the battlefield) but I don't think it can really equate to Martial Power so much, as that has its own training devices & progressions. However things like Martial Qi Gong are in my opinion different as the value is already defined, it has a specific purpose. 
Just like meditation does for the mind, body & even spirit(Which again can be applied on the battlefield but not so much fighting itself). 


Just my .02


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## Xue Sheng (Jan 5, 2010)

oxy said:


> So go right the hell ahead and put me on your ignore list. I don't think I can handle someone who twists people's posts so they can exercise their holier-than-thou righteousness. Me crossing your line is your imagination. However, you crossed my line by trying to imply my guilt through an implied but incorrect association. That was unbecoming of you, but at least it exposed you for the kind of person you are. (I actually don't have a line that people can cross, but since we're playing that game..., however I do tend to remember people through their reasoning ability)


 
If I tell you your right will you go away?


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## Xue Sheng (Jan 5, 2010)

To properly answer the question you would need to know what was meant by "mediation". 

Did the OP mean sitting mediation or something more along the lines of a moving Qigong?

If seated mediation it is highly doubtful if a moving qigong again, without knowing what it was it is rather hard to say.

Are their Qigong forms that have martial apps? Yes

There is allegedly an entire MA style based on Ba duan jin and there are martial apps to the 5 animal frolics

Also if you are defining mediation as a standing mediation then you could also but Zhan Zhuang and Santi shi into that and both are used as a basis for a CMA style Zhan Zhuang for Yiquan and Santi Shi for Xingyiquan. Also I believe Yang Chengfu was rather found of Wuji and thought it was rather important but I believe that would be more of an indirect association with an MA application


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## mograph (Jan 5, 2010)

Looks like the answer is: "it depends on the meditation form".


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## Tensei85 (Jan 5, 2010)

I may be trying to cut hairs that aren't there (Happens a lot...) 

But to me Meditation & Varying types of Qi Gong are vastly different in their approach and what the end result may be or even the reason for the practice in the first place.

Personally I feel Meditation induces more of a Mental cultivation, whereas QiGong has more of a Physical cultivation(Internal/External), though they both can & do maintain benefits for the mind, body & spirit as evident in Samadhi practice or other methods, even certain types of Taoist Qi Gong methods. But I feel their goal is intrinsically different. 

Just an opinion,
Thanks


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## oxy (Jan 5, 2010)

Xue Sheng said:


> If I tell you your right will you go away?



I wasn't aware you owned this forum, but you know, I hardly come by here these days anyway. I go elsewhere for a rational discussion and not this "you insult my family" ****.

You may like to portray it as me trying to be right. I'm just not convinced we have a complete enough story from any side and I was expressing that, but you took offense that someone could believe differently to you and you try to imply I'm somehow affiliated with Falun Gong [which is, as Seth MacFarlane would say, a colossal dick move] because of it.

But like I said, I don't have a good reason to read your stuff anymore knowing your reasoning abilities.

Signing off for now, Oxy, the guy who doesn't buy crap from EITHER side.


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## tshadowchaser (Jan 6, 2010)

Mod warning

Get back to the topic in the OP
Use ignor button if you do like the way someone posts
Use the report to mod button if you feel someone is out of line

Sheldon Bedell
MT Mod


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## Xue Sheng (Jan 6, 2010)

Tensei85 said:


> I may be trying to cut hairs that aren't there (Happens a lot...)
> 
> But to me Meditation & Varying types of Qi Gong are vastly different in their approach and what the end result may be or even the reason for the practice in the first place.
> 
> ...


 
I tend to agree but what little training I have in meditation in Yoga (Yogic Breath Training) however is both physical and mental cultivation but an arguemtn could be made that it was more mental than physical. But in Qigong you have 3 categories Scholar, Medical and Martial Arts

Although Dr Yang says there are 5; Maintaining health, Curing sickness, Prolonging Life, Martial Arts, and Enlightenment (Buddhahood).

But the Martial is not directly used in fighting as much as it is used to cultivate Qi or the internal aspects, or unify the body and mind, or simply relax and use the benefits gained from that for martial arts, not use it in direct application


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## mograph (Jan 6, 2010)

We need to be aware of mind/body separation, I think, where a complete martial art should create mind/body unity and harmony.

I also think that a complete martial art requires the physical testing of one's self against an opponent. Maybe the opponent introduces a challenge to one's mind/body harmony. Maybe one can maintain the harmony while sitting quietly, but it's much more difficult to maintain the harmony when one's body (and self-image?) are being challenged by an opponent.

Maybe that's it ... the meditative art becomes a true martial art when the practitioner is able to maintain mind/body harmony while under a threat to mind & body ...?


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## Xue Sheng (Jan 6, 2010)

mograph said:


> We need to be aware of mind/body separation, I think, where a complete martial art should create mind/body unity and harmony.
> 
> I also think that a complete martial art requires the physical testing of one's self against an opponent. Maybe the opponent introduces a challenge to one's mind/body harmony. Maybe one can maintain the harmony while sitting quietly, but it's much more difficult to maintain the harmony when one's body (and self-image?) are being challenged by an opponent.
> 
> Maybe that's it ... the meditative art becomes a true martial art when the practitioner is able to maintain mind/body harmony while under a threat to mind & body ...?


 
Yup

That is why I like things like Santi Shi. It is not the same as fighting an opponent but it is, at least in early stages, teaching you harmony in just standing through the pain. It is also teaching body unity as well


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