# Many researchers taking a different view of pedophilia



## Big Don (Jan 17, 2013)

[h=1]Many researchers taking a different view of pedophilia[/h]By Alan Zarembo, Los Angeles Times EXCERPT:                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     January 14, 2013, 8:12 p.m.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   As a young boy, Paul Christiano  loved the world of girls  the way they danced, how their spindly bodies  tumbled in gymnastics.

 In adolescence, as other boys ogled classmates, he was troubled to find himself fantasizing about 7- to 11-year-olds.

                                                                                                                                                                   His desires remained stuck in  time as he neared adulthood. Despite a stable home life in suburban  Chicago, he was tortured by urges he knew could land him in prison.

 "For having these feelings, I was destined to become a monster," he said. "I was terrified."

 In 1999, Christiano was caught buying child pornography. Now 36, he  said he has never molested a child, but after five years of  state-ordered therapy, the attraction remains.

 "These people  felt they could snuff out the desire, or shame me into denying it  existed," he said. "But it's as intrinsic as the next person's  heterosexuality."

 In the laboratory, researchers are coming to the same conclusion.

 Like many forms of sexual deviance, pedophilia once was thought to stem  from psychological influences early in life. Now, many experts view it  as a sexual orientation as immutable as heterosexuality or  homosexuality. It is a deep-rooted predisposition  limited almost  entirely to men  that becomes clear during puberty and does not change.

 The best estimates are that between 1% and 5% of men are pedophiles,  meaning that they have a dominant attraction to prepubescent children.
END EXCERPT
Oh, they can't change? So, recidivism will be high? Good reason for capital punishment.


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## Dirty Dog (Jan 17, 2013)

I've said for years that there's no "treatment" for pedophiles, other than termination.


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## billc (Jan 17, 2013)

Life imprisonment would work...as long as no one let them out again...


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## granfire (Jan 17, 2013)

Big Don said:


> *Many researchers taking a different view of pedophilia*
> 
> By Alan Zarembo, Los Angeles Times EXCERPT:                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     January 14, 2013, 8:12 p.m.
> 
> ...



well, it's all nice and dandy....
but unlike attractions to adult partners pedophiles leave victims.

And uh...what about the studies that show a propencity of the victims becoming perpetrators?


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## Touch Of Death (Jan 17, 2013)

Big Don said:


> *Many researchers taking a different view of pedophilia*
> 
> By Alan Zarembo, Los Angeles Times EXCERPT:                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     January 14, 2013, 8:12 p.m.
> 
> ...


I grew up with a guy that exhibited these traits. In grade school he would obsess over some child, and voiced that I was weird for not doing the same. I thought they were pretty and all, but I had problems of my own and never really did pick up on obsessing over people. LOL But getting back to my friend, the older he got, he still liked these young girls. It is exactly as the article describes. Before we all have him killed, I don't think he ever molested a child, and thanks to self induced diabetes he wont be having sex with anyone ever. So, before we poo poo this line of thinking, I know that guy. LOL (figuratively)
Sean


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## ballen0351 (Jan 17, 2013)

Touch Of Death said:


> I grew up with a guy that exhibited these traits. In grade school he would obsess over some child, and voiced that I was weird for not doing the same. I thought they were pretty and all, but I had problems of my own and never really did pick up on obsessing over people. LOL But getting back to my friend, the older he got, he still liked these young girls. It is exactly as the article describes. Before we all have him killed, I don't think he ever molested a child, and thanks to self induced diabetes he wont be having sex with anyone ever. So, before we poo poo this line of thinking, I know that guy. LOL (figuratively)
> Sean



you dont need to have sex to molest a child


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## Touch Of Death (Jan 17, 2013)

ballen0351 said:


> you dont need to have sex to molest a child


Well, the guy I am talking about is more a danger to himself than anyone else, but he is clearly in the danger zone. I believe he would have been a serious danger were he not so self destructive and weird, and with that we can safely ignore him. I am just saying there are those among us that obsess about the wrong things, and they may never act on it, but he would have been easy to spot had someone been looking, but no one really cared.
Sean


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## Tez3 (Jan 17, 2013)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-21059681#TWEET532312


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## granfire (Jan 17, 2013)

Tez3 said:


> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-21059681#TWEET532312



however horrific (they need to be castrated with a rusty butterknife)
not exactly the kink in the brain that makes a pedophile....


I am guessing a hint of 'cultural' deviation here as well...females being worth less than a donkey.....


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## Tez3 (Jan 17, 2013)

The girls are as young as 10,11 and 12, that makes the men paedophiles. Paedophiles that make money out of their victims at that. The girl was forced to have an abortion (a backstreet therefore illegal one) at 12, she'd been used for sex since she turned 11.


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## DennisBreene (Jan 17, 2013)

granfire said:


> however horrific (they need to be castrated with a rusty butterknife)
> not exactly the kink in the brain that makes a pedophile....
> 
> 
> I am guessing a hint of 'cultural' deviation here as well...females being worth less than a donkey.....



This goes so far beyond the pale that it is it's own special sphere of sociopathy.   I don't think these type of people change. The only thing reasonable is to prevent them from ever being in a position to harm another. Decisively, permanently and with appropriate public fanfare. And no, that does not necessarily mean excecution.


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## granfire (Jan 17, 2013)

Tez3 said:


> The girls are as young as 10,11 and 12, that makes the men paedophiles. Paedophiles that make money out of their victims at that. The girl was forced to have an abortion (a backstreet therefore illegal one) at 12, she'd been used for sex since she turned 11.



sure, and all that jazz, but it does have that cultural twang to it....
By all means, I am not defending these wastes of oxygen.
just saying they have another component to it. Seems to me more of a business decision for them to abuse these girls, break them in before throwing them on the market.
And then renting them out to the pedophiles of the 1st order.

Which of course is made much easier when the female is not regarded as equal human.


However, the problem is neither of these groups can be left unchecked in society.
Unlike the average relationship between 2 consenting adults, there are victims!


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## Tez3 (Jan 17, 2013)

Those on trial may be Asian but there were plenty of 'customers' who were white.


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## granfire (Jan 17, 2013)

Tez3 said:


> Those on trial may be Asian but there were plenty of 'customers' who were white.



yes
(however those guy in the article are no different than the guys who  traffic women. It's just a more lucrative branch! 600 POUNDS per pop!  That's a top of the line hooker of the legal age!)

THOSE are the other guys.
Now, neither is particularly charming....

Now, with the 'I can't help it' excuse being on the verge of being proven my medical science....
rosy expectations! After all, homosexuality was at once declared illegal, right?! <shudder>


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## Makalakumu (Jan 17, 2013)

In the book "Sex at Dawn" Dr. Christopher Ryan goes into the subject of the development of sexuality.  He goes through the research and shows how males and females are different in the development of their sexuality.  Essentially females are more flexible when it comes to their standards and they are able to more easily shift their tastes and preferences, while males have an age where their tastes become fixed.  That age occurs right around puberty, give or take a few years.  Anyway, when cross cultural comparisons are performed, cultures that have puritan rules regarding sex tend to produce more sexual deviance.  It is thought that the limitation of exposure to sexual material, control of sexual thought, and experience itself creates more individuals who "imprint" off of the wrong things.  This is why really sexually restrictive cultures are infamous for their fetishes, pedophilia, and bestiality.

This research does not suggest that culture is the prime factor in creating pedophiles.  Even in permissive cultures, they still exist, but they are far more rare.  What it does suggest is that cultures can reduce the amount of sexual deviance by being more open about sex and sexual behavior.  We can reduce the amount of pedophilia by teaching our younger males about what is sexy and helping them imprint on that.  So, rather than simply bringing pedophiles to the guillotine, why not take a moment to reflect on how they got that way and perhaps work to support a rational solution to reduce the damage these people can cause.  

In the end, no matter how well we teach our children, some people are going to imprint off of the wrong things.  The research from the book I cited above, dovetails with this article.  The proclivity doesn't change for males.  Once a person becomes a pedophile or develops a fetish, it's effectively permanent.  For these individuals, there will always be a need of some form of social control.


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## cdunn (Jan 18, 2013)

Makalakumu said:


> . We can reduce the amount of pedophilia by teaching our younger males about what is sexy and helping them imprint on that. So, rather than simply bringing pedophiles to the guillotine, why not take a moment to reflect on how they got that way and perhaps work to support a rational solution to reduce the damage these people can cause.
> 
> In the end, no matter how well we teach our children, some people are going to imprint off of the wrong things. The research from the book I cited above, dovetails with this article. The proclivity doesn't change for males. Once a person becomes a pedophile or develops a fetish, it's effectively permanent. For these individuals, there will always be a need of some form of social control.



Germany is trying.


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## Sukerkin (Jan 18, 2013)

It is ever a source of wonder to me that the human mind and the supporting physical systems that feed it can spin so wildly out of kilter as a response to relatively small stimuli at the right (or wrong) time.   

Because at other times it can be so resilient and robust, it makes you blink to realise that things can go wrong so very easily - I suppose that is why as many as a third of us have mental problems of one sort or another.


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## Makalakumu (Jan 18, 2013)

Sukerkin said:


> It is ever a source of wonder to me that the human mind and the supporting physical systems that feed it can spin so wildly out of kilter as a response to relatively small stimuli at the right (or wrong) time.
> 
> Because at other times it can be so resilient and robust, it makes you blink to realise that things can go wrong so very easily - I suppose that is why as many as a third of us have mental problems of one sort or another.



If ever there was a need for some kind of Clockwork Orange technology, it's here. Maybe sometime in the future it will be possible reprogram a persons sexuality.


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## Tez3 (Jan 18, 2013)

As with a lot of things such as over eating, not exercising etc the thought of self control doesn't seem to come into it. The excuse that 'I can't help it' is a poor one for things like this, the modern way seems to be that you have to give into your baser instincts. Goodness knows there's a lot of people I could quite easily kill with my bare hands if need be but I don't kill them I'm even polite to them because of self control, self discipline. It's why most of us don't over eat, don't break the law, don't have sex with children etc etc.


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## cdunn (Jan 18, 2013)

Tez3 said:


> As with a lot of things such as over eating, not exercising etc the thought of self control doesn't seem to come into it. The excuse that 'I can't help it' is a poor one for things like this, the modern way seems to be that you have to give into your baser instincts. Goodness knows there's a lot of people I could quite easily kill with my bare hands if need be but I don't kill them I'm even polite to them because of self control, self discipline. It's why most of us don't over eat, don't break the law, don't have sex with children etc etc.



The basic point of the German program is that you can train people in self control. It does not accept offenders. I feel it is a worthy effort, though I do not know what its results are at the moment.


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## Tez3 (Jan 18, 2013)

Self control is something one should be taught as a child.


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## ballen0351 (Jan 18, 2013)

Tez3 said:


> Self control is something one should be taught as a child.



That's my thought you shouldn't need to teach an adult not to molest kids.  Its kind of a given


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## DennisBreene (Jan 18, 2013)

Sexual orientation does not imply compulsion. That is probably the deviance (compulsion) that creates the harm.


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## Tgace (Jan 18, 2013)

"Attraction" is different from acting on ones urges. Does being a pedo equate to not being able to avoid molesting a child?

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2


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## Makalakumu (Jan 18, 2013)

DennisBreene said:


> Sexual orientation does not imply compulsion. That is probably the deviance (compulsion) that creates the harm.



The compulsion is hard to understand.  It's hard to have empathy for it.  How does it get to the point where a person would prey off of another?  This is an issue with serial rapists as well.  Certain people feel compelled to act on their attractions no matter what the consequence.


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## Tez3 (Jan 18, 2013)

Tgace said:


> "Attraction" is different from acting on ones urges. Does being a pedo equate to not being able to avoid molesting a child?
> 
> Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2




Exactly. A lot of us who are married or in a relationship can be attracted to others  but we don't go having affairs so self control is achievable. When we were posted to Germany the RAF camp had a lovely outdoor swimming pool, in summer greatly used by the nubile but under aged daughters of the airmen. A great many of the men using the pool had their eye caught but these lovely young ladies in their bikinis who weren't unaware of their attractions but no one took it any further because it was known they were underage even if it was only by months. Everyone knew the trouble it would bring so they used self control. 
A lot of stuff is spouted about not being able to control themselves, celebrities who've been caught out shagging are 'sexaholics' so they can't help it and need 'counselling', no, what they have is ordinary lust and they don't feel like resisting it.

Paedophiles will often tell you how 'innocent' and 'normal' their love for children is and how the children benefit from it, so following their logic how is it a compulsion? If it's a sexual urge in the same way other sexual urges are why can't they control it?


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## Tgace (Jan 18, 2013)

And does being a pedo mean you don't have sexual attraction to adults at all?

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2


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## Touch Of Death (Jan 18, 2013)

Tez3 said:


> As with a lot of things such as over eating, not exercising etc the thought of self control doesn't seem to come into it. The excuse that 'I can't help it' is a poor one for things like this, the modern way seems to be that you have to give into your baser instincts. Goodness knows there's a lot of people I could quite easily kill with my bare hands if need be but I don't kill them I'm even polite to them because of self control, self discipline. It's why most of us don't over eat, don't break the law, don't have sex with children etc etc.


Quite easily kill with your bare hands? I have to say, I like your attitude.


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## Tez3 (Jan 18, 2013)

Touch Of Death said:


> Quite easily kill with your bare hands? I have to say, I like your attitude.



Oh yes, when you get that guy who is screaming at you 'don't you know who I am' when you've just had to pull him up on something he's done, then he bad mouths you, your parentage, your job, tells you 'he'll have you for this' etc etc etc and you have to be nice and polite ( though actually being nice and polite winds him up more so it's good to do :uhyeah You think to yourself I could just put him in a RNC and not let go..for a long time.
The thing is, I could do it but I don't.


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## Sukerkin (Jan 18, 2013)

Tgace said:


> And does being a pedo mean you don't have sexual attraction to adults at all?
> 
> Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2



An interesting question.  My impression, from what little I have seen about this in the media, is that, no, they can't; but I freely admit I know nothing whatsoever of substance about this vile predilection (it's not something that I wish to contemplate, like most people I am sure).

I would say tho' that *if* it is a problem with the wiring of the brain then, abhorrent as the acts of these people are, maybe it should be treated more as a mental illness?


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## Big Don (Jan 18, 2013)

The old argument that "They can't help it, they were born that way" has been used for years to justify various activities and proclivities.
Almost as if anything you are born with is automatically and irrevocably a good thing.
Some people are born with Down's syndrome and some are born with Spina bifida, are you going to argue those aren't BAD things?


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## granfire (Jan 18, 2013)

Tgace said:


> "Attraction" is different from acting on ones urges. Does being a pedo equate to not being able to avoid molesting a child?
> 
> Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2



I think the problem here is that the boundaries are so easily crossed:

A hug here or there, then the hand slips a little....the object of desire are not aware of the fact that the actions are indeed, little by little. crossing the line.
Maybe not even intentional - at first.....
You know, where you would get your head bit off by an adult.


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## DennisBreene (Jan 18, 2013)

Big Don said:


> The old argument that "They can't help it, they were born that way" has been used for years to justify various activities and proclivities.
> Almost as if anything you are born with is automatically and irrevocably a good thing.
> Some people are born with Down's syndrome and some are born with Spina bifida, are you going to argue those aren't BAD things?



Bisexuality seems to be reasonably accepted as existing; implying that one's sexual orientation can accommodate more than one item on the menu.  I think that human behavior is far more complex than simply relegating the argument to "check the appropriate compulsion on the form and move to line 24 to complete your application for disability, penance, accommodations etc...".  I don't think compulsion should ever be an excuse, maybe just an added insight into how humans respond.  I don't see any quick, easy solutions for returning someone with seriously abnormal and dangerous behaviour to more civilized funtioning.  For the time being, it seems to be appropriate to protect society from such individuals while trying to remember that affording them a certain amount of human dignity and regard does not diminish us.


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## cdunn (Jan 21, 2013)

Tez3 said:


> A lot of stuff is spouted about not being able to control themselves, celebrities who've been caught out shagging are 'sexaholics' so they can't help it and need 'counselling', no, what they have is ordinary lust and they don't feel like resisting it.
> 
> Paedophiles will often tell you how 'innocent' and 'normal' their love for children is and how the children benefit from it, so following their logic how is it a compulsion? If it's a sexual urge in the same way other sexual urges are why can't they control it?



True compulsive behaviour starts with the self-lie that they are in control, and is quickly interleaved with justifications. It's a cage that people build for themselves to protect themselves from the world, to hide from something. Breaking out of it and really asserting control means facing whatever it is that they hide from. It means thinking and feeling instead of ritual. This is not a simple matter, and usually it takes a catastrophe to make people deal with the problem. The flip side of things is that complusive behaviour shouldn't shield them from the consequences of the actions; reasons aren't excuses. 



Big Don said:


> The old argument that "They can't help it, they were born that way" has been used for years to justify various activities and proclivities.
> Almost as if anything you are born with is automatically and irrevocably a good thing.
> Some people are born with Down's syndrome and some are born with Spina bifida, are you going to argue those aren't BAD things?



No one is claiming that these results make it a 'good' thing. Merely that with this knowledge in hand, we can look for ways to help those with the potential to offend keep themselves from offending in the first place, rather than letting them lurk until they destroy a child's life and punishing them afterwards; it's not very fair to the child, now is it?


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## Touch Of Death (Jan 21, 2013)

cdunn said:


> True compulsive behaviour starts with the self-lie that they are in control, and is quickly interleaved with justifications. It's a cage that people build for themselves to protect themselves from the world, to hide from something. Breaking out of it and really asserting control means facing whatever it is that they hide from. It means thinking and feeling instead of ritual. This is not a simple matter, and usually it takes a catastrophe to make people deal with the problem. The flip side of things is that complusive behaviour shouldn't shield them from the consequences of the actions; reasons aren't excuses.
> 
> 
> 
> No one is claiming that these results make it a 'good' thing. Merely that with this knowledge in hand, we can look for ways to help those with the potential to offend keep themselves from offending in the first place, rather than letting them lurk until they destroy a child's life and punishing them afterwards; it's not very fair to the child, now is it?


This is one of those liberty versus security things, and it is a pretty safe bet that eventually security will win.


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## billc (Jan 21, 2013)

Something to watch out for is not only are some elements of the pyschiatric community looking to change how they address this subject but hollywood is also making an effort to "normalize," this problem.  In the recent past they have idolized roman polanski, and other known child molestors, and they are making movies and television shows that show these individuals in a sympathetic light.  For example, there is a television show..."Pretty Little Liars," I think, but it could be another show, where the mid twenty year old teacher is having a sexual relationship with a 16 year old girl...and it is shown sympathetically, and they encourage the audience to hope they escape discovery.  That is not to mention the movies that have come out and are coming out that are also, I would say, promoting this activity.  Keep a look out for these movies...you will be seeing more of them as time goes on...

Hollywood is a sick place...


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## RandomPhantom700 (Jan 22, 2013)

Makalakumu said:


> The compulsion is hard to understand. It's hard to have empathy for it. How does it get to the point where a person would prey off of another? This is an issue with serial rapists as well. Certain people feel compelled to act on their attractions no matter what the consequence.



Certain people feel compelled to take drugs, or gamble, or have that 5th or 6th drink.  Compulsion is compulsion, regardless of the particular fixation.  As Tgace stated, being a pedophile doesn't mean being a child molester/child rapist; along that line of thought, I'm sure there are plenty of pedophiles out there who are able to ignore the compulsion and/or channel their attractions into outlets that won't get them in trouble.  

And before anyone says it, no, I'm not typing this in an attempt to defend child molesters.


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