# Apology



## A.R.K. (Aug 20, 2003)

I would like to offer my apology to my fellow MT members here in Bad Budo.  In my atttept to finally end a dispute between Mr. Ku and myself, I feel I crossed the line of civility.  No, I didn't use harsh language or anything.  But I did bring another individual into the fray, though not by name, who is no longer a poster here on MT.  That wasn't kind on my part and I wish now that I had gone about making my points to Mr. Ku another way.  

If Mr. Ku wishes to continue to take a negative path in his remarks to me then I will issue only silence in rebuttal.  

So to the staff and the members I humbly offer my apology.

It ends here and it ends now.

Peace.



:asian:


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## paihequan (Aug 20, 2003)

Lao Tzu said:

"When two great forces oppose each other, the victory will go to the one who knows how to yield"

He also said:

"Those who know don't talk, Those who talk don't know"


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## Cruentus (Aug 21, 2003)

I said:

" When a great force builds up inside of you, have someone pull your finger for a strong release"

:fart:


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## cali_tkdbruin (Aug 21, 2003)

> _Originally posted by paihequan _
> *Lao Tzu said:
> 
> "When two great forces oppose each other, the victory will go to the one who knows how to yield"
> ...



The yin yang principle coming into play... :yinyang: 


:asian:


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## DAC..florida (Aug 24, 2003)

> _Originally posted by PAUL _
> *I said:
> 
> " When a great force builds up inside of you, have someone pull your finger for a strong release"
> ...



Excellent choice of words paul !!  WOW! 



ARK,

I think you made the honorable choice here as you can and never will please everyone and in my opinion some members visit this board just to cause problems while the rest of us our trying to share info.. ect.
:asian:


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## KennethKu (Aug 25, 2003)

The other thread was locked while I was away.  So, I have to post this here.  


ARK keeps saying where the evidence against him  is.  

WEll.......
For those of you who are interested,

http://www.e-budo.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?threadid=4650&perpage=15&pagenumber=1

EXPOSE on David Shultz .  It started out as an expose on Mr Shultz's mentor, associate or holy man, (or whatever  ), convicted fraud Jack Stern. Then it gets to ARK's own credential (claims of credential) plus a whole lot of BS.  I didn't care to read 9 pages of the whole BS.  Hey...But it is your time! 

 See ARK, David Shultz,  seems like a lot more people have done researh into your background, huh?  

*Note to Admin*: Don't blame me for dragging me this on and out.  Besides I am not making anything up here.  I am simply sharing with the members what is available about ARK, at another site, which, according to Kaith and Arnisador's previously expressed views, is NOT MT's competitor, as MT does not care to bust fraud like Ebudo does.  * Therefore, I am simply following MT's wishes by directing members (who give a rat *** about ARK)  lol , to the appropriate place, ie E-Budo. *


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## Bob Hubbard (Aug 25, 2003)

Kenneth,
  No problem here.  The information on this issue as presented at e-budo didn't have any of the 'frothing at the mouth' syndrome it had here, and is a good area to look for those who are still following this issue. My only question at this time is, outside of a few folks, is anyone still watching or have they all tuned it out? (Please, no one answer that.)

E-budo is a great resource for those seeking some of the deeper insights, especially on the Japanese cultural side due to the large number of active members living in Japan.  It is one of the 3 martial arts forums I visit daily. (The other is BudoSeek)

Regarding the concept of 'fraud busting' as it relates to MT, while we encourage the discussion of concerns and the exposure of frauds and such, we don't want the anarchy that often times follows such things.  This isn't the 'mudhut' or 'bulshido'.  I'm open to constructive thoughs on finding a happy middle ground, thru email, pm or phone. (Not in this thread).

:asian:


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## Cruentus (Aug 25, 2003)

Wow...thanks for the link Kenneth...that seemed like the right thing to do given the circumstance.

ARK, there seems to be a lot of evidence against you on many different levels. I don't train in your styles, I have no contact with you, and if the evidence is true and you are fraudulent in your Charitable giving and Martial Arts status, there is really nothing I can do to stop it from where I am at. 

So...I chose to get involved and fight battles that where I can make a difference. I cannot in this circumstance.

So, from now on that I have read the alligations and the rebuttles, I will stand in the background as a quiet observer.


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## DAC..florida (Aug 26, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz _
> *Kenneth,
> No problem here.  The information on this issue as presented at e-budo didn't have any of the 'frothing at the mouth' syndrome it had here, and is a good area to look for those who are still following this issue. My only question at this time is, outside of a few folks, is anyone still watching or have they all tuned it out? (Please, no one answer that.)
> 
> ...




Kaith,

Please excuse the following comments to kenneth ku, if you feel I am crossing the line feel free to delete this post. I mean no disrespect to you or your staff.
I am only asking for a chance to defend myself and the style of martial arts I love and the instructor I have great respect for. Our style has proven to work in numerous real life scituations. 

Kenneth ku,

I went to e-budo and read all ten pages, I dont see how jack sterns mistakes affect the abilities or credability of ARK or myself. Jack stern is a friend not mentor or instructor to either myself or ARK, yeah he made some mistakes in the past but hav'nt we all. Myself and ARK have told you numorouse times in various posts on this forum to ask any questions about our credentials or ranks and they will be answered...., but instead you make claims you cannot back up and ask nothing of us. Why? I think the answer to this question is because you have no proof or maybe your afraid of the answers because you know were legit!
You have never met or trained with ARK or any of his students so how can you say he is a fraud.

PLEASE ASK AWAY!
:asian:


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## DAC..florida (Aug 26, 2003)

> _Originally posted by PAUL _
> *Wow...thanks for the link Kenneth...that seemed like the right thing to do given the circumstance.
> 
> ARK, there seems to be a lot of evidence against you on many different levels. I don't train in your styles, I have no contact with you, and if the evidence is true and you are fraudulent in your Charitable giving and Martial Arts status, there is really nothing I can do to stop it from where I am at.
> ...



Paul,

What you read on e-budo was mainly an attack on Jack stern whom has no influence in our style or organization. We do associate with this man and have seen first hand what kind of person he really is, Jack made some mistakes years ago and admits them, that does not affect what he is doing now and I for one am not qualified to judge another. ARK collects no money for teaching, we teach at our church and 99% of all moneys goes to the church NOT TO US! The little money that is sent our way by them we use for equiptment not profits in our pockets, our students make thier checks payable to the church not us! Ocasionaly well have a one day seminar at our local ELKS lodge and after we have paid for the food and drinks we serve the rest of the money goes to lodge toward The Florida Elks chilrens therapy service. The last time we met with Jack stern he was one of the speakers at one of these seminars Jack asked for no money to talk, he wouldnt even let us by him a plane ticket, hotel room or anything now what kind of fraud wants no money and actualy spends money to attend?
I'm not jumping on you I just would like you to here both sides of the story before you or anyone else feeds into the lies others are posting!

 :asian:


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## Bob Hubbard (Aug 26, 2003)

Some of the stuff being flung back and forth is pure horse dung.  It smells of the tired old argument between traditionalists and those who seek to make their own mark.

Some of its pure dead horse, long since reduced to dust.

Some of it is not either.

People have been fighting for thousands of years and haven't mutated so much that things don't work like they used to.

There is what works for you, and what doesn't.  

There are those who study a single technique or form for 40 years and always make a new insight.  

There are those who study 12 systems in 40 years and feel they have mastered them. We all look for different things, and find different things. Sometimes we find those who have a deep understanding.

Sometimes we find those whose own insecurities and greed lead them to fake it and mislead others.  Sometimes the later spends so much time with their lies that it becomes a reality to them.

In the case of Mr. Stern - Fraud.  Criminal.  Sorry, was convicted in a court of law.  End of discussion.

In the case of ARK - The discussions here and elsewhere have gone in circles.  The facts are laid out pretty detailed for anyone wishing to look.  Blindly following someone is pretty stupid IMHO, and if you follow a fraud, thats your problem. Note, I am not judging Mr. Shultz here.  As I will not be training with him, it is not my concern.  It is not my place to judge him or evaluate his skills/credentials/etc.  Read the information that is public and make your own minds up.  

People sometimes get so fixated on 'making their point' that they often miss the facts that A- it was already made and B- the other side needed little help in inserting Foot-into-mouth. You can learn alot about a person from how they respond and react.



As an aside: Yes, I've made mistakes, misjudgements and other errors.  I'm seeking to learn from them and avoid the repeat. 


Peace.
:asian:


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## A.R.K. (Aug 27, 2003)

Sigh 

I invite everyone to read the link Kenneth Ku provided, in fact I encourage it.  It will reveal quite a bit.  I provided input on an individual I personally know vs a pack of individuals attacking someone that is not present to defend or comment.  I was wrong to comment about a certain individual no longer present, and issued an apology for my actions.  But it seems acceptable on E-budo to trash someone not present.  I have left there and they still are trash talking about me.  If it is not acceptable, it should not be for them either.  Yet they seem quite content with their actions.

Lets see, they attacked me for raising money for charity.  I would like to note that I have never once claimed to be a charitable organization...never once.  I stated this several times on E-budo, yet the comment was ignored.  Certain individuals such as Don and Ken are not interested in factual information as long as there is some angle to smear.  I do connect individuals with instructors in their discipline and ask that the testing fee go to charity rather than the instructors pocket.  And its worked nicely so far.  So someone...anyone explain to me what is wrong with this?  What is wrong with hosting a seminar and giving the money to a charity?  Somebody please explain my wrong doing on this point.

Someone please explain my wrong doing regarding any of my ranks.  

Someone please explain to me how anything in that link to E-budo shows me to be questionable in any way, shape or form.  Seriously...show me even ONE thing...just one.  Show me where Don or Ken have proven one thing to discredit me.  Anything...anybody.  I've grown so sick and tired of the inuendos, the baseless allegations, the snide remarks from people who claim to be adults.  So please, by all means read the link provided and list just one thing that discredits me.

Anything.

Anybody.

Lets see something.


:shrug:


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## DAC..florida (Aug 27, 2003)

you know that no-one will challenge anything they will just continue to trash talk.


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## A.R.K. (Aug 27, 2003)

I would further like to touch on some things that I feel are important.

1.  Don & Ken have been attempting to discredit me for a ranking in Pangainoon.  A ranking I no longer even claim or mention, and have not for quite some time.  Main reason?  I no longer have a living person that can verify my credentials in this discipline and I never joined an organization for puposes of registering said discipline.  Why did I never join one?  Because I don't know of any.  However, I could still claim this rank if I choose to.  What rank could a person reasonably obtain in thirty one years? 

2.  Don & Ken have been attempting to discredit me for not being the member of a certain Pangainoon organization.  Yet this organization never existed in the first place.  It doesn't appear in net searches.  It has no web page, email, phone number or physical address, yet I'm suppose to be a member of it to be legitimate.  Someone please explain this to me.

3.  As mentioned above, Don & Ken have been attempting to discredit me for one of my organizations i.e. GMAST.  As I've noted above, the purpose and details have been explained at length..yet they have ignored this.  I have invited them to contact me for information to verify everything I've stated..yet they have never once bothered to do so.  So they turn a blind eye to reasonable explainations and facts and never once research anything but they still feel compelled to slander the concept.  I feel that speaks for itself.

4.  Mr. Stern has indeed been convicted of wrong doing.  Some say he's still at it.  Don & Ken have been attempting to go the 'guilty by association' route.  This is simply wrong.  They try to paint a picture of 'mentor', 'holy man', 'instructor' etc..yet I have never mentioned him in any of these positions in regards to myself.  He is a friend.  He is not an advisor nor has he any influence or input on my training or teaching.  I have commented on what I know firsthand about him.  And now I'm 'dubious' because of this? :shrug:   Hogwash!  If it were to come to light that he's done something else wrong....what of it in relation to me?  Nothing.  

5.  Don has attacked a Mr. Brent Fuller on E-budo..yet Mr. Fuller isn't even a member of the site.  Nor has he done anything wrong.  He has attacked him because of  the many ranks he has put in his bio.  I don't know Mr. Fuller yet it doesn't matter.  Coversely, Don has use a Mr. Joseph Connolly to bolster his attacks..yet Mr. Connolly has quite a number of high Dans himself.  It would seem that one cannot claim several high rankings if Mr. Roley doesn't like you, but if you support Mr. Roley's agenda you can have a plethoria of high ranks.  

6.  Don & Ken have attempted to discredit me for voluntarily reducing my own rank in Shuri.  I have expained in detail, some time ago that that particular discipline has dramatically altered.  And since I have had no part in it, and since I'm do not know the new information, I no longer feel qualified to hold anything lofty in it. But since my instructor is here and well and can verify my training I have elected to ownly keep a Shodan to support my training.  What is the error in this if I may be so bold as to ask?

7.  Ken claims to have no time or interest in discussing the matter one-on-one..yet has quite enough time to post endless links and commentary on that which he has admitted to not fully know.  I you the reader cannot see Don & Ken's baseless and unsupported agenda...I simply don't know what to say.  Neither Don or Ken are going to listen as they have already made up their minds based on fantasy.  It seems to be a waste of time to try to explain details to individuals who simply don't want to see them.  They are in too deep for their pride to allow them to admit they are wrong.  

If I'm wrong on any of these details then simply speak up and expain to me how I'm wrong.  I see them as men who continually twist the truth to meet their perverse agenda.  I see them as men who have a fantasy view of reality and will try to tear down anything that doesn't fit into their world view.  I await their reply or anyone who thinks I'm wrong on any or all points.  If I'm wrong then speak up and show me where I'm wrong.

Good day

:asian:


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## Rick Tsubota (Aug 27, 2003)

> _Originally posted by A.R.K. _
> *I would further like to touch on some things that I feel are important.
> 
> 1.  Don & Ken have been attempting to discredit me for a ranking in Pangainoon.
> :asian: *



You have rank in PanGaiNoon?
Who did you get it from?

The reason I ask is becuase it is rare style even in Okinawa.


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## Aegis (Aug 28, 2003)

ARK: you may as well give up trying to clear your name. Especially from here. There are too many seemingly fraudulent claims that you yourself have made or that other people associated with you have made. Your resignation from e-budo didn't exactly help, and you can hardly criticise them for talking about you behind your back when you went over there and started them talking about you. Besides, any time you put content up on the internet, you are inviting criticism. A lot of people in the Baffling/Bad budo section on that site are not present, yet their claims are discussed with no less vigour than your own. If you can't deal with this criticism, then take down the site and stop making ANY claims at all.

The fact is that they have made a lot of well structured arguments there. Without anyone there to argue against them, you are going to lose the discussion.


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## A.R.K. (Aug 28, 2003)

Rick,



> Who did you get it from?



From various instrutors over the years, in different parts of the world that I've lived in.  The last was Mr. Richard Pelligrino.  



> The reason I ask is becuase it is rare style even in Okinawa.



This is true particuarly since it has fragmented into so many different splinter disciplines.  A quick search on the net will reveal Pangainoon, Pangainoon-Ryu, Pangainoon Jujutsu and even Pangainoon Kemp.  And with the problems recently in the Uechi upper echelon the splintering has increased.


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## A.R.K. (Aug 28, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Aegis _
> *ARK: you may as well give up trying to clear your name. Especially from here. There are too many seemingly fraudulent claims that you yourself have made or that other people associated with you have made. Your resignation from e-budo didn't exactly help, and you can hardly criticise them for talking about you behind your back when you went over there and started them talking about you. Besides, any time you put content up on the internet, you are inviting criticism. A lot of people in the Baffling/Bad budo section on that site are not present, yet their claims are discussed with no less vigour than your own. If you can't deal with this criticism, then take down the site and stop making ANY claims at all.
> 
> The fact is that they have made a lot of well structured arguments there. Without anyone there to argue against them, you are going to lose the discussion. *



Aegis,

I will not stop responding to attacks on my character, training or credentials.  You believe they have constructed a well structured arguement against me?  I disagree.  Their argument is based on speculation, fantasy, fabrication and the twisting of the truth.

I resigned from e-budo because I saw no further point in arguing with Mr. Roley.  His mind is made up, based on nothing substantial, but made up none the less.  I believed that nothing positive was to come out of futher posting in the KYHA thread.  However, Mr. Roley has now begun a thead directly against me.  I am in the process of reactivating my account on e-budo to refute his baseless allegations.

This will be the post I submit there, I have edited out two names because they are no longer affiliated with MT.  I have kept Mr. Roley's name in the post as I believe he is still a member here and is free to post a rebuttle if he choses to.  The reason I post this here as well is that I feel it appropriately counters their 'well structured arguements'...




I have chosen to re-register with this site with the express purpose of refuting the inconsistencies and fabrications of Mr. Don Roley and Mr. XXXX.  First off lets take a look at some of the fabrications Mr. Roley has chosen to put in this thread.

Mr. Roley stated
The W.I.F. is the site it is taken from, the world Idolkwan Federation, headed by Brent Fuller.

This is incorrect.  The WIF was founded and is headed by Mr. Andrew Davies of Great Britain.  Mr. Davies is a 6th Dan with the Kukkiwon.

Mr. Roley then stated
Stern gave Shultz some rank that Schultz then used to fluff up his resume and impress others.

This is incorrect.  Mr. Stern holds no rank in any discipline that I have trained in and therefore could not issue me any rank other than an honorary rank in his own discipline, which he has not.  The Dong Koo certificate was part of my KYHA package.  However it is nothing more than recognition of my rank in Pangainoon [which we will discuss in great detail later].  I did not need the Dong Koo cert, but it was included anyway.  My reason for joining KYHA, as I have said previously, was to network with other martial artists worldwide in regards to training concept.  

Therefore Mr. Roleys statement that Mr. Stern gave me rank is a fabrication.  

Mr. Roley then stated

Schultz has been presented with some pretty convincing evidence that this rank is bogus

This is incorrect.  Mr. Roley has been shown to bend or twist the truth to his own means or he has outright stated fabrications.  Since he has been caught in his own lies, I see no reason to believe his latest tall tale.  Roleys pretty convincing evidence might just be the latest of his cons.  Lets take a closer look at how he has done this, as well as the fabrications of Mr. XXXX

First off, lets take a close look at Mr. XXXX's bogus claims.  By the way XXXX, Im glad you decided to resurface, you have much to answer for.  

Mr. XXXX pretty much dug his own grave on this board though with posts such as [in the thread An interesting phone call today dated 4.27.03 on MT]

I decided to settle an argument that was on another thread that was just closed.

The basic argument was whether a certain member of this BBs was really an 8th Dan in Pangainoon.

I made a phone call to Pangainoon Honbu Dojo in Okinawa to investigate.

The first question I asked was if they new of the afore mentioned member of this board.

Me: Do you have an American 8th Dan in your Pangainoon system named xxxxx xxxxxxx or have you ever heard of him?

Pangainoon Honbu: No, he is not an 8th Dan member of our organization and no we have never heard of him.

Me: I see. Is there anyone in the Pangainoon system America or the West that could promote someone to an 8th Dan?

Pangainoon Honbu: No, we are a rather small organization and have no members abroad that could do that. All testing for that grade would have to take place here in Okinawa.

Lets take a long, hard look at what Mr. XXXX is actually shoveling in his post.  Here is the link for those that would like to do more in-depth research..

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=7667&highlight=phone+call

First ..

"Do you have an American 8th Dan in your Pangainoon system named xxxxx xxxxxxx or have you ever heard of him?"

Which Pangainoon system is this Mr. XXXX?  Is it Pangainoon?  Or Pangainoon-Ryu or maybe Pangainoon Jujutsu or Pangainoon Kempo?  Is it the Pangainoon offshoot that I informed you I trained in?  Your question is not a legitimate question.
They even told you [allegedly] that No, we are a rather small organization and have no members abroad that could do that  Did you even understand the lie that you trapped yourself into Mr. XXXX?  They are a rather small organization yet in email communication you informed me that they are the world HQ for Pangainoon and to be legitimate I would have to be a member.  So they are a world HQ that you claimed governed Pangainoon yet posted they are really just a small organization.  Which is it Mr. XXX?  But really, your response to this question is immaterial as your whole premise is severely flawed.  Heres why

I have a 4th Dan in TKD.  I am not registered with the Kukkiwon in Korea, yet I was trained by a Kukkiwon registered Master according to Kukkiwon standards.  Therefore my Dan in TKD is legitimate and valid despite not being registered with Kukkiwon.  I posted on Marital Talk the following comment

Yet another poster, who is no longer on this board, once told me my Dan was not legitimate because I was not registered with the WTF. According to him, if anyone's TKD was not WTF TKD...then it wasn't TKD at all. With all due respect, I beg to differ.

The poster that objected to my Dan was YYYY, who is a member of this site.  In response to my post I received wonderful support..

Anybody who would post such an asinine statement, or believes such nonsense is ignorant IMHO. 
I received my Dan rank through the WTF-Kukkiwon, but so what, I'm well aware that we aren't the only TKD game in town. 

One certainly DOES NOT need to be Kukkiwon Dan certified to be a legit. worthy BB. I know, I've seen my share of non-WTF affiliated TKD practitioners and some of them are pretty damn good and polished MAtists... by Cali_TKDbruin who is a registered Dan holder with the Kukkiwon.

And

This person did not know what they are talking about. 
In fact, Yee, Yong Woo did not have a WTF Dan, until one was presented to him... I don't think he even claims it, yet he is one of the Founders of TKD. He founded JungDoKwan and currently serves as head of the KKW high Dan promotions committee.

If you want to compete in KKW events, then YES you must have a KKW certification. If you have no desire to compete, then I fail to see how a Kukkiwon would help you, unless you intend to use it as a "quality" standard. If that is the case, it is important to note, that KKW has not been certified by any governmental agency, nor the ISO, for quality. In other words, they have not met the standards for Quality certification. Unless you are a quality professional you may not get what I am alluding to, but it is important.  By Mr. Frank Clay who is a registered Kukkiwon Master.

So the point is that one does not need to belong to any organization in order to be legitimately trained.  A point that seems to be lost on Mr. Roley and Mr. XXXX.

Another point is that I have repeatedly stated I have trained in this discipline offshoot for thirty-one years.  How much rank could one reasonably expect to obtain in three decades of training or longer?  

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=9811

This thread by another poster asked the question of how long it should take to obtain a 6th Dan in general.  The answers varied from twelve to twenty-four years.  So is an 8th Dan in thirty-one years unreasonable?  Of course it isnt.  Yet Mr. Roley and Mr. XXXX seem to have a major problem with it.  Yet Mr. Roley has used the comments of a Mr. Joseph Connolly to support several of his agendas against people.  But Mr. Connolly has

Hapkido - 6th Dan
9th Dan in Kodokan Judo
9th Dan in the Oriental martial art of Judo
8th Dan in Aki Jujutsu
Tang Soo Do - 6th Dan
7th Dan in Taekwondo
5th Dan in Karate-do

http://www.usmaf.org/bio/connolly/

So two 9th Dan, an 8th Dan, a 7th Dan, two 6th Dans and one 5th Dan in one lifetime are ok but my one 8th in Pangainoon is not ok???  My question is with all of this high rank, when did Mr. Connolly have time to change his underwear?  Mr. Roley has some very selective viewpoints to say the least.  I think Mr. Roley and Mr. XXXX would lose their minds if I posted the same crap as Mr. Connolly, but since Mr. Connolly supports their agendaits okay.

All of the above is solid and factual, despite the fact they have been ignoring it for months.  And effectively shuts down their biased and arrogant statements.BUT there is one thing more.  The organization in Okinawa that Mr. XXXX claimed to talk to seems to exist only one placein his mind.  It appears to be a figment of his imagination that Mr. Roley seems content to propagate to support his own agenda.  I have asked repeatedly for information on this alleged organization from Mr. XXXX in emails, PMs and on the board.  He always ducks and dodges the question.  Surely a world HQs would have a website or an email address.  Even a postal address.  How about the phone number Mr. XXXX allegedly called?  I have searched the internet pretty thoroughly and have never found a website for this alleged organization nor a link nor even a mention.  How can I be a member of an organization that only exists in Mr. XXXXs fantasy world?  And even if by some stretch it does existI have shown that it is meaningless in regards to my legitimacy anyway.  

And Mr. XXXX knows this, so he has tried to change is tactics.

I suppose asking him to post or email a copy of these ranks would be too much to ask.

He tried this line on Martial Talk.  But would Mr. XXXX know what my discipline certificate looks like?  Since it isnt affiliated with any Asian organization [because their isnt one] it is a discipline certificate.  Since Mr. XXXX isnt in the discipline of Pangainoon, how would he be able to judge anything by it?  If I did post certificates his tact would be to merely scream that I made them up.  So there is no point in posting anything, he will never accept them anyway because to accept them means he will have to admit he was wrong in attacking me.  

Perhaps if I had a plethora of high Dans like Mr. Connolly I would somehow be more acceptable to them than just having the one 8th in Pangainoon.  

Mr. Roley has now tried to attack both of the organizations that I have begun, namely the Guild for Martial Arts Standard and Training and the International League of Martial Arts Masters.

Mr. XXXX also stated that through these organizations I sell rank.  So my question is to both of these gentlemen is What rank do I sell, who have I sold it to, how much have I charged and in what disciplines have I sold it?  I cant wait to hear the answers.  Mainly because their charge is a fabrication.  I have never sold a rank.  I dont even charge my students a testing fee in my own discipline.

Lets take a look at both.

The GMAST has been attacked, mainly because Ive been asked to supply certificates to show it is a charitable organization.  I have notbecause I have never claimed that it is.  It is a Dan registry as well as a network of Instructors assisting those in their respective disciplines in testing procedures.  This was explained in full on our website, and will be again when I get it back up and running.  Any testing fees were asked to be sent to the students choice of charity or the instructors choice of charity in lieu of the money coming to us or the instructor.  In this way no one can ever claim we sell rank.  We dont see a penny of the fee, in fact I have spent money out of my own pocket to mail packets to members.  People who wish to become a member and be listed on the registry go through the same procedure of choosing their own charity as way of membership fee.  

The ILMAM is an invitation only organization that has no fee whatsoever, nor does it issue rank in anyway.  It is a fellowship of Maists worldwide of 4th Dan or higher.

That sums it up for now.


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## A.R.K. (Aug 28, 2003)

I would also like to add that I really bear no ill will towards either of these men.  Yes, I get angry and frustrated at their baseless attacks.  Yes, part of me wants to reach through the computer and slap some sense into them.  But mainly I'd like to sit down with them over a cup of coffee [not that I drink the stuff] and look them straight in the eye and ask them 'what the hell's your problem anyway?'

I have done nothing wrong.  But the computer is not the most effective tool to actually communicate with someone.  But it's the best we currently have.  I get tired of being portrayed as some axe murderer roaming the countryside in search of innocent MA's to slice up.  

Who thinks an 8th Dan in 31 years of training is unreasonable?

Who thinks joining together instructors with practitioners for the purpose of testing with them is wrong?

Who thinks it's wrong to ask the practitioner to send the test fee [which is small] to the charity of their choice instead of paying the instructor or us?

Who thinks it's wrong to have an invitation organization that promotes fellowship across discipline lines?  An organization that charges nothing and promotes no one?

You know what I have done wrong?  I used the title Soke for a two month period of time in my whole 31 year career.  And I dared to call a convicted fraud a friend because he seems to be a stand up guy in the year and a half I've known him.  Well, maybe that wasn't wrong, but I've sure been crucified for it.  And I've occasionally let my temper show through my words.  But I've tried my best to be a good poster, offer good insight and learn from my errors.

Peace.

:asian:


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## Reprobate (Aug 28, 2003)

Dear mister Schultz,



> _Originally posted by A.R.K. _
> *You know what I have done wrong?  I used the title Soke for a two month period of time in my whole 31 year career.  And I dared to call a convicted fraud a friend because he seems to be a stand up guy in the year and a half I've known him.  Well, maybe that wasn't wrong, but I've sure been crucified for it.*



From www.kyha.net:


> Board of Directors:  Master Carlos Silva - Brazil - (Kick Fighting)
> Sensei James Dickie - Scotland - (Registrar - Amateur Judo Association Britain)
> Dr. Andrew Davies - England
> Master Felix Lugo - Conn./New York
> ...


Maybe it would help your credibility if you asked your convicted fraud friend, whose organization you claim not to endorse, to remove you from the Board of Directors list. And to stop them from mistakingly calling you 'Grandmaster (Soke)'. This would greatly enhance any claims concerning your impartiality.
Also, perhaps it would help if you and mister Craine wouldn't refer to mister Stern's crime as 'a mistake'. Mister Stern didn't mistakenly pin a Medal of Honor on his breast and forgot to remove the darn thing from his lapel when he went out for groceries. Mister Stern admitted in public to purposely acquire a MoH in order to commit fraudulent acts. And he didn't do this fifty years ago, but less than ten years ago. Since he is now 70+ that would make him 60+ at the time of the fraud he committed, an age when one should know better.

Best wishes,


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## A.R.K. (Aug 28, 2003)

Point taken.  

It has been quite a while since I've even looked at the KYHA website.  I do not use the term Soke or Grandmaster.  There is no reason for me to view it often.  I know I'm listed on there, and I receive a newsletter periodically that lists new members.  

But I would like your opinion on my post Martyn.  What a secretary put on my listing months ago bears little on the various items I've discussed in detail above.

Thank you.

:asian:


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## DAC..florida (Aug 28, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Reprobate _
> *Dear mister Schultz,
> 
> 
> ...




At the time that he did it I agree it was no mistake! But now 7-8 years later In my opinion it can be called a mistake, he admitted what he did and paid the price that the judicial system in the state of florida asked him to. There are always two sides to every story and much to contrary beleif the media dont always report all the facts, just what sells. Mr. Stern has paid his debt to society and is trying to help others now. As for him being acused of selling fraudalent certificates and rank, thats bull! to join the KYHA you must have a valid certificate in a style, and they merely recognize what you already have, its a fraternal organization not a political one.


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## Reprobate (Aug 28, 2003)

Mister Schultz,
Since you asked for my reply to your post:

Your questions:


> _Originally posted by A.R.K. _
> *Who thinks an 8th Dan in 31 years of training is unreasonable?
> *


I think that depends on the art in question.


> _Originally posted by A.R.K. _*
> Who thinks joining together instructors with practitioners for the purpose of testing with them is wrong?
> *


Not wrong, but redundant. A student should test under his/her own teacher. If I'd receive a rank degree from someone who hasn't taught me, I'd feel deserving of this rank.


> _Originally posted by A.R.K. _*
> Who thinks it's wrong to ask the practitioner to send the test fee [which is small] to the charity of their choice instead of paying the instructor or us?
> *


Well, as I think testing with your organization is redundant, I'd think someone should find their own charities and contribute to that charities. I do.


> _Originally posted by A.R.K. _*
> Who thinks it's wrong to have an invitation organization that promotes fellowship across discipline lines?  An organization that charges nothing and promotes no one?
> *


No, but what's the use of fellowship? If one is a proper martial artist, one is always open and friendly to other martial artists, whether they have joined a fellowship or not.


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## Bob Hubbard (Aug 28, 2003)

*Admin Note*

This thread is temporarily locked while the administration discusses the issue.  

In the duration, please refrain from the discussion of A.R.K.

Thank you


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## Bob Hubbard (Aug 29, 2003)

*Admin Note:*

This is an update.  
ARK (David Schultz) is no longer a member here. Those wishing to continue the debate with him will please take it to those forums he does currently visit.

We strongly request that our members refrain from reigniting these issues, as well as bringing up former members who are no longer here to answer for themselves.

This thread will remain locked.

Thank you.


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