# kyokushin



## chiro4 (Oct 21, 2004)

There was a post that suggested by some people that kyokushin karate is the most effective? I would like to know if isshin ryu karate would be comparable for its effectiveness?  Please give me your opinions?


----------



## Kembudo-Kai Kempoka (Oct 21, 2004)

As one of the guys who made the KKS remarks, I'll expand on them by saying that I appreciated my training because of the intensity. The moves were quite simplistic, but we trained the heck outta them and banged up our bodies pretty hard getting ready to use them. Pretty much every sparring night ended in some significant injury, and we were expected to show up the next workout, and just keep slamming away (broken left ankle? Lead with your right, and avoid weight-bearing while working on hands and counter-attacks [since springing into an offensive would be tactically and physically difficult in a cast]. Busted right hand? Rely more on your left, your legs and feet, and work on setting up  right elbow instead of right punch. Etc.).

Every workout involved bag and makiwara work, as well as breaking (drop through a couple stacks of concrete or scrap-wood 2-4 nights a week, constantly challenging yourself to break more, and a puny little nose bone starts looking about as hard to break as a thin cracker). Each session also consisted of "tempering" exercises to condition the body to deliver hard blocks and blows causing injury to the other guy, and not yourself. Pictures of Mr. Oyama's knuckles were blown up and framed on the walls as the ideal to strive for.

I don't remember any of the forms, or if we even had any...I was usually in too much pain from a dozen sprain/strains and small fractures/dislocations, and just showing up and staying mentally present to get through class/conditioning took all the mental resources I had available (not to mention, I have a bad memory anyway...can't remember the names of kenpo techniques, and been doing it almost my whole life). I don't know enough abou Isshin to compare, but I wanted to be clear from the start about why I appreciated Kyokushin-Kai.

I also, ironically, don't recommend it for anyone not in the active military or law enforcement.  I have a plateful of arthitis aches and pains, the vast majority of which are from this type of extremist training. Now, as a citizen without the need for this type of intense reaction capability, I have no justification to myself to use as solace for my aches and pains. It takes too long to get moving in the morning, and with no bad guys to chase or freedoms to defend, I spend that first 30 minutes pissed at myself for the folly of youth.

They may have developed a more family-friendly version; again, I wouldn't be in the know to comment.

Dave


----------



## ppko (Oct 22, 2004)

First of all I would like to say that there is no art more effective than the other as it is how the art is applied that makes it effective or not.  You cannot truthfully say that any art is better than the other it may be better suited for you but it may not be suited for another.  It all comes down to the teacher of the particular style.  But to know the effectiveness of any style it just takes asking some questions and looking around at different schools, what looks like it will work what doesn't these are the questions you need to ask yourself.


----------



## The Kai (Oct 22, 2004)

When my 1st teacher got into the kyokshinkai scene, he learned what a great motivational tool the shini was!  Also doubled as a reward stick.

If your push ups were to slow or weak, Whack came the Shinai
On the other hand if ypu were cranking out the push ups, it was "good job" Whack!  More congradulatory hit though!
Todd


----------



## Patrick Skerry (Oct 22, 2004)

Are there any Kyokushin Karate dojo's in the Boston area?  I would like to observe a class if permissible.


----------



## Shibumi (Jul 31, 2005)

My instructor talks of this type training in his younger years, and has come to the conclusion that just because that is how he did it, doesn't mean it was correct. Even Oyama said that as one grew older, one had to use more technique than power- In our dojo, an injury is an impediment to your training, and to be avoided at all times. Bruises and extremely sore muscles/strained lungs do not qualify as injuries however- the distinction is, "you can still train if you hurt, but not if you are injured" Even in our full contact matches, you can still get a warning for excessive contact- once again, we don't mind "hurting" each other but most of us are friends, and we don't want to "injure" each other.


----------



## jaydogg72 (Mar 1, 2006)

Does anyone know of a dojo in So. Cal?


----------



## jujutsu_indonesia (Mar 2, 2006)

Kyokushin is very good as basic training ground for future kickboxers. Hardcore Kyokushin training will build strength, endurance and raises pain tolerance, as well as courage and fighting spirit.


----------



## JPH (Mar 3, 2006)

I echo PPKO's comments in that all Karate styles are equally effective. We all had a sincere appreciation of Oyama sensei and his organization. I, too, come from a school that practiced intense training, but the emphasis was always on development and improvement, and injuries were correctly viewed as set backs to one's training. Occassionally it is benificial to push the envelope in your training techniques to enhance your skills and endurance, but if in doing so results in severe injury your results could be severely limited.

John


----------



## Cirdan (Mar 3, 2006)

Styles certainly are different, but to simply call one more "efficient" than the others is just plain silly. What does that mean anyway? I like the word "functional" much better.



			
				Kembudo-Kai Kempoka said:
			
		

> I have a plateful of arthitis aches and pains, the vast majority of which are from this type of extremist training.  Now, as a citizen without the need for this type of intense reaction capability, I have no justification to myself to use as solace for my aches and pains. It takes too long to get moving in the morning, and with no bad guys to chase or freedoms to defend, I spend that first 30 minutes pissed at myself for the folly of youth.
> Dave


:uhohh: Man I respect Kyokushin but this sounds awful. Were the painful concequences of such harsh training never considered? If anything these things gets even worse with age.


----------

