# Wanna be a Ninja?



## jthomas1600 (Jan 24, 2011)

I haven't seen a "cheap post" section here, but I had to put this somewhere and since I'm most active in the TKD thread...here it is. I saw this in the online version of my local newspaper.


----------



## ralphmcpherson (Jan 24, 2011)

The funniest thing about that advert is that that guy's phone will be ringing hot with hundreds of people wanting to "become a ninja". If people are stupid enough to fall for this then I really hold nothing against the guy for cashing in on idiots


----------



## Rayban (Jan 24, 2011)

*facepalm*

I wonder if he likes heavy metal given the dopey way he has his hands.


----------



## Touch Of Death (Jan 24, 2011)

ralphmcpherson said:


> The funniest thing about that advert is that that guy's phone will be ringing hot with hundreds of people wanting to "become a ninja". If people are stupid enough to fall for this then I really hold nothing against the guy for cashing in on idiots


So what if their motivations are stupid. It gets them in the door, and they learn Martial Arts. Where is the harm?
Sean


----------



## Touch Of Death (Jan 24, 2011)

oops, I guess it's on line. Never mind. The whole thing is stupid. Sorry.
Sean


----------



## K-man (Jan 24, 2011)

Looks like BB within three years. Only $327 too.  Pity I'm too old!  :rofl:


----------



## K-man (Jan 24, 2011)

Actually it sounds all right.  Just checked out the website.  10 years to 10th dan if you can do what his wife did!   I could probably just fit that in.


----------



## 72ronin (Jan 25, 2011)

K-man said:


> 10 years to 10th dan if you can do what his wife did! I could probably just fit that in.


 
.......... I wont say it.. I have a warped sense of humour and umm, yeah LOL


----------



## Bruno@MT (Jan 25, 2011)

K-man said:


> Actually it sounds all right.  Just checked out the website.  10 years to 10th dan if you can do what his wife did!   I could probably just fit that in.



Actually, RVD only get you up to 4th dan.
For the Godan test you need to go to Japan, and your chances of success are slim if all you had was RVDs online training. But you'll still be a 4th dan.


----------



## Cirdan (Jan 25, 2011)

What do I need that guy for? I just signed my own Super Soke Uber Ninjer diploma. I completely deserve it after finishing Tekken 6 on ultra high difficulty with Yoshimitsu the ninjutsu stylist.


----------



## K-man (Jan 25, 2011)

Bruno@MT said:


> Actually, RVD only get you up to 4th dan.
> For the Godan test you need to go to Japan, and your chances of success are slim if all you had was RVDs online training. But you'll still be a 4th dan.


That's ok. 4th Dan Ninja will still sound good in the eulogy ... I think. And, I'll have some shurikens decorating the coffin.


----------



## Chris Parker (Jan 25, 2011)

Hmm, for a Ninjutsu themed thread, perhaps the Ninjutsu section would have been better (if you couldn't think of where to put this)? 

RVD has been well discussed, he has his fans and his detractors (although his biggest fans seem to be himself and his students, and his biggest detractors are the rest of the Bujinkan who look down on his business practices and Home Study Courses....), a quick search will find a number of threads in existence there if you're insterested.



Rayban said:


> *facepalm*
> 
> I wonder if he likes heavy metal given the dopey way he has his hands.


 
Uh, Rayban, the way of holding your hands there is Hannin no Kamae from Gyokko Ryu, and is part of the Kuji aspect of that particular Ryu-ha. It's one of the higher Kuden teachings of the Ryu itself.


----------



## Cryozombie (Jan 25, 2011)

Chris Parker said:


> Uh, Rayban, the way of holding your hands there is Hannin no Kamae from Gyokko Ryu, and is part of the Kuji aspect of that particular Ryu-ha. It's one of the higher Kuden teachings of the Ryu itself.



Ok Chris, that's it.  I'm moving down there.  Got room for a Student?


----------



## Chris Parker (Jan 25, 2011)

Ha, I look forward to it, Cryo! I'm sure I can find room for you somewhere....


----------



## Daniel Sullivan (Jan 25, 2011)

Chris Parker said:


> Hmm, for a Ninjutsu themed thread, perhaps the Ninjutsu section would have been better (if you couldn't think of where to put this)?
> 
> RVD has been well discussed, he has his fans and his detractors (although his biggest fans seem to be himself and his students, and his biggest detractors are the rest of the Bujinkan who look down on his business practices and Home Study Courses....), a quick search will find a number of threads in existence there if you're insterested.


So what is the content of his course like? Is the primary issue the delivery method? And what are his credentials? Are they legitimate or did he self promote.

His site bills itself as being part of the International Bujinkan Dojo Association. So is he and his course recognized by the Bujinkan?

The complete course is 397.00.  Some people get gouged for more than that just for their blackbelt test at a brick and mortar school and look like green belts.  I don't see how this is so awful in the grand scheme of things *if* the material is legitimate and he himself is not a fraud.

Not jumping up to support video training or this gent in particular, mind you; my thoughts and reservations on video study are expressed in many threads (go to the HKD section and look up Combat Hapkido).  

But I have to ask if he's at least a less hideous alternative to a belt factory that charges 100+ dollars per month plus various special club fees, testing fees, and then a whopper of a black belt testing fee, leaving you about three grand in the hole with training equal to or less than what one would get from a video course.

Daniel


----------



## Chris Parker (Jan 25, 2011)

He has a structured syllabus for grades up to Yondan (4th Dan), starting with basic postures, fists, rolls etc, moving through combative sequences until Shodan. From there the syllabus becomes Ryu-ha specific with certain weapons for each (for Nidan, the syllabus is Gyokko Ryu and Hanbo [half-staff], Sandan is Shinden Fudo Ryu and Bojutsu [staff], Yondan is Takagi Yoshin Ryu and Sojutsu [spear]). RVD provides a training manual, as well as suggesting a range of DVDs of Hatsumi's and others to help as training aids (his own tapes are only up to Shodan).

In terms of whether or not it is recognised by the Bujinkan, I'm going to be as delicate as I can here.... 

Each Shidoshi (Teacher in the Bujinkan, a member of the Shidoshi-Kai, and at least 5th Dan or higher) can order certificates at any time from Japan for any of their students up to Yondan, so in terms of whether or not Japan will provide the certificate and honour it regardless of actual quality of the student in question, or even whether they have ever had a real flesh and blood teacher, rather than just videos and books, yeah, they will. From Godan you need to test with Hatsumi Sensei, the test for Godan is a sensitivity exercise, avoiding a sword strike (with a padded shinai) from behind. That's all there is to the Godan test. Beyond that it's at the discression of the senior teachers, up to and including Hatsumi. There are no requirements for any grade in the Bujinkan at any level other than the Godan test.

So the plus side for what RVD is doing is that it at least has a fair degree of structure to it. The downside, of course, is that it is a Home Training, Grade-by-Video course, little to no real quality control, and so on.

RVDs credentials (in the Bujinkan) are as legit as any other 15th Dan member, really. There is some contention over the Escrima he has inherited the title of head of the system for, but not his Bujinkan rank. That said, he does tend to present things in a rather odd way... for example, he has equated his 15th Dan grade with being a Menkyo Kaiden in the Bujinkan, which is a completely different ranking system, not used by the Bujinkan for the most part, and completely unrelated to the Kyu/Dan grading system. That, and a number of other rather embarrassing cultural faux pas's have earned him a rather dubious place in the Bujinkan community. When that is combined with his commercial-orientated position (when Hatsumi has stated a number of times that no-one is to earn money from these arts, and if you run a school, you are expected to use that money to finance further study, such as trips to Japan), the grade-in-the-mail approach of this course, and other things, and his reputation just takes a further beating. I'm not dealing with his movement here, either, by the way.....


----------



## Bruno@MT (Jan 25, 2011)

Chris Parker said:


> Ha, I look forward to it, Cryo! I'm sure I can find room for you somewhere....



Hah. Well if he is coming, then I'll drop by as well.
Of course I can't train ninpo with you (sadly) but I could participate in the self defense training. 

There are a couple of other people I'd like to visit down under so I might as well make a road trip out of it. Once the floods recede and you got rid of the sharks of course


----------



## Chris Parker (Jan 25, 2011)

Ha, how about we just make this years Meet and Greet in Melbourne, guys?

Oh, and the floods didn't quite make it to me down here, but I don't want to get rid of the sharks, they're rather pretty things.... spent the day with my sister, nephews, niece and brother-in-law at the aquarium recently, saw the baby hammerheads, great time! Are you sure you want us to get rid of the cute little things? 

Oh, and just as an addendum, Daniel, RVD is the IBDA, rather than a part of it. It is his organization. And yes,'the material is legitimate, it's the teaching method that's looked down upon. Within Japanese arts there is the concept of Isshi Soden, which is direct teaching from teacher to student, and is often refered to as transmitting from one heart to another. That form of osmosis teaching is nor possible via video or online courses, so to teach that way defeats the method of transmitting the art itself.


----------



## DuskB4Dawn (Jan 25, 2011)

Chris Parker said:


> Uh, Rayban, the way of holding your hands there is Hannin no Kamae from Gyokko Ryu, and is part of the Kuji aspect of that particular Ryu-ha. It's one of the higher Kuden teachings of the Ryu itself.



this is part of the gyokko ryu technique? I didn't knot this.
what level traditionaly will you learn the higher kudan teachings?
I have alsv been very interested in gyokko ryu intuition training.


----------



## Supra Vijai (Jan 25, 2011)

Cirdan said:


> What do I need that guy for? I just signed my own Super Soke Uber Ninjer diploma. I completely deserve it after finishing Tekken 6 on ultra high difficulty with Yoshimitsu the ninjutsu stylist.


 
Cirdan, do you mean Raven possibly? He trains NinjItsu. At least in the movie and the later games that is. Yoshimitsu becomes a Samurai warrior who lives by the sword. I'm not a nerd.... 



Rayban said:


> *facepalm*
> 
> I wonder if he likes heavy metal given the dopey way he has his hands.


 
The finger thing is called a mudra. While the whole thing may have been a posture from Gyokko Ryu Kuden teachings, the actual just fingers themselves are ancient. In the Western world it's the sign of the goat and normally associated with heavy metal and what not, in Eastern cultures (I can only really talk about Indian here), it's got certain properties as to why you would hold that position. In certain forms of Yoga for example it's believed that you are activating tiny pressure points on the tips of you middle and ring fingers with your thumb which helps with circling energy during meditation. Other benefits too but that's one of the main ones without getting too esoteric.



DuskB4Dawn said:


> this is part of the gyokko ryu technique? I didn't knot this.
> what level traditionaly will you learn the higher kudan teachings?
> I have alsv been very interested in gyokko ryu intuition training.


 
Loll how long have you been training?  You've been through Gyokko *once* (as have I and most other students) at least with the focus we just covered it in. Obviously there's gonna be a lot that you or I don't know. Stay with it though and I'm sure you'll get the to Kuden in time. For now, focus on Shoden and then get to Chuden and then once you're awesome in both, try Okuden. Did you do the sensory perception training (where you stand in Mushin with you eyes close and someone attacks you from behind slowly and with intent and you need to sense their intent and move away)? Surely you did it at least once, we trained it for a month! There's your Gyokko intuition... well intuition in general.


----------



## Bruno@MT (Jan 26, 2011)

DuskB4Dawn said:


> this is part of the gyokko ryu technique? I didn't knot this.
> what level traditionaly will you learn the higher kudan teachings?
> I have alsv been very interested in gyokko ryu intuition training.



Presumably it will be taught once you reach a sufficiently high level in the art and have a solid understanding of the basics  ?


----------



## Chris Parker (Jan 26, 2011)

Okay, DuskB4Dawn, no you didn't cover that aspect. There's a lot I didn't go through, such as the Gassho Kamae, use of walnuts (really!), a range of weaponry aspects (for those from other forums, I am categorically not speaking of either Gyokko Ryu Tojutsu or Gyokko Ryu Bojutsu as was popularised in the early 90's.... ha!), as well as obviously the Kuden for a lot of the system, and deeper aspects of the kata themselves. I could have spent the entire six months just going through the Sanshin Kata and still not covered everything where they are concerned. So don't stress too much about not getting everything, that comes with time, experience, and skill. There's no point giving you things like Hannin without you getting the rest of the Ryu down first.

Supra, yeah, mudra is the term in a number of areas, in these traditions they are often refered to as Kuji-in and Ketsu-in. The concept of encirling energy is pretty much on the money there, it comes down to what each of the fingers themselves represent (the left hand is the "spiritual" world, the right is the "material" world, each finger representing the various elemental concepts that make up both worlds [the Godai concept]). In essence, Hannin is a hand position used in all Gyokko Ryu kamae when required (RVD is demonstrating Hannin Jumonji no Kamae there, Hatsumi does the same on the Gyokko Ryu DVD in the Mutodori Gata, he demonstrates a Hannin Doko no Kamae [a litttle different to Togakure's Doko no Kamae, by the way...] in Essence of Ninjutsu, and there are a few other examples dotted around), and involves concepts of empowering and protecting the practitioner.

In terms of when such things are covered, Hatsumi Sensei has said that there is no point teaching Kuji until someone's Taijutsu has reached a sufficient level, otherwise it's just dangerous. So Bruno is absolutely correct, you get exposed to such things only after you can actually handle the methods of the Ryu itself. So far there has been little more than a taste for you guys....


----------



## Indagator (Jan 26, 2011)

There is a certain picture of Soke which I have seen in which he has his hands in such a position. I would see if I could find it but I owuld say it'd be largely irrelavant.

Supra Vijai, the Western history of the hand-sign is rather interesting. Although contemporary usage has it as the "sign of the Goat" favoured by metallers the world over the origins (at least as far as my experience has shown) trace back to the Mediterranean area where it was known as the Sign of the Evil Eye used to ward off evil intents or curses. Various areas had slight variations in tradition surrounding it, although the practice was common throughout most of the area - in fact as an Aussie you probably would have noticed many of the little old ladies from that area, Italians, Greeks or Maronites from the Lebanon area for example (whom I have heard have significantly large communities within your country), would use the Sign rather frequently.
It is generally accepted that this sign was picked up in the 70s by Ronnie James Dio, from his Siciliana grandmother, and he began using it during concerts. From there, it simply spread amongst a new group, becoming inculturalised and developing new traditions along the way.

A digression with utterly no purpose, but there you go!

I have often wondered how useful some of RVD's resources would be as supplemental learning for people who do train in conventional circumstances, FWIW.


----------



## Chris Parker (Jan 26, 2011)

And, of course, for more discussion on this way of holding your hands from a variety of sources, see this thread: http://martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=91282

In terms of RVDs reference material, it can be good, but at the same time a lot of it (such as the Dan grade manuals) can be difficult to understand without experience, honestly.


----------



## Supra Vijai (Jan 26, 2011)

Chris Parker said:


> Supra, yeah, mudra is the term in a number of areas, in these traditions they are often refered to as Kuji-in and Ketsu-in. The concept of encirling energy is pretty much on the money there, it comes down to what each of the fingers themselves represent (the left hand is the "spiritual" world, the right is the "material" world, each finger representing the various elemental concepts that make up both worlds [the Godai concept]). In essence, Hannin is a hand position used in all Gyokko Ryu kamae when required (RVD is demonstrating Hannin Jumonji no Kamae there, Hatsumi does the same on the Gyokko Ryu DVD in the Mutodori Gata, he demonstrates a Hannin Doko no Kamae [a litttle different to Togakure's Doko no Kamae, by the way...] in Essence of Ninjutsu, and there are a few other examples dotted around), and involves concepts of empowering and protecting the practitioner.
> 
> In terms of when such things are covered, Hatsumi Sensei has said that there is no point teaching Kuji until someone's Taijutsu has reached a sufficient level, otherwise it's just dangerous. So Bruno is absolutely correct, you get exposed to such things only after you can actually handle the methods of the Ryu itself. So far there has been little more than a taste for you guys....



A taste that leaves -me at least - wanting more and more and more  I first came across the energy explanation of it a few years back during my last trip to India. For some reason found myself with a lot of free time and not a whole lot to do so ended up taking a short course in Yoga and Meditation and the circling energy was given there. Also about the same time I did a course in Reiki (Only level 1 so far) and they utilised it as a transitionary posture of sorts for the fingers during the warm up exercises the practitioner was mean to do to get the energy flowing. They didn't use the term Mudra though, I'm quite familiar with that one given that it's Sanskrit. Might have been Kuji-in/ketsu-in, can't recall I'm afraid. 



Indagator said:


> Supra Vijai, the Western history of the hand-sign is rather interesting. Although contemporary usage has it as the "sign of the Goat" favoured by metallers the world over the origins (at least as far as my experience has shown) trace back to the Mediterranean area where it was known as the Sign of the Evil Eye used to ward off evil intents or curses.



Yeah aware of the history (although not in great detail) I was over simplifying it just to keep it in line with Ninjutsu and the use by Metalheads.  History is full of ancient signs and symbols that have been perverted/corrupted by different forces over time though. A fairly major example in the last century being the Swastika. Originally a symbol of peace and creation over 3000 years old, it was perverted by the Nazi's as they saw it as a symbol of the original Indo Aryans being the ultimate white invaders. But again that's wildly digressing lol



> I have often wondered how useful some of RVD's resources would be as supplemental learning for people who do train in conventional circumstances, FWIW.



I have one lot of the DVD media (Basics) and it's not great to learn anything from to be honest. It's great to have a reference to learn the Japanese names of things but there are far too many subtleties to something as basic as a backwards breakfall that just doesn't get covered by watching someone on your TV. Having a living breathing physical instructor watching you and offering on the spot feedback simply can't be beat IMO


----------



## Rayban (Jan 26, 2011)

Supra Vijai said:


> The finger thing is called a mudra. While the whole thing may have been a  posture from Gyokko Ryu Kuden teachings, the actual just fingers  themselves are ancient. In the Western world it's the sign of the goat  and normally associated with heavy metal and what not, in Eastern  cultures (I can only really talk about Indian here), it's got certain  properties as to why you would hold that position. In certain forms of  Yoga for example it's believed that you are activating tiny pressure  points on the tips of you middle and ring fingers with your thumb which  helps with circling energy during meditation. Other benefits too but  that's one of the main ones without getting too esoteric.





Chris Parker said:


> Supra, yeah, mudra is the term in a number of areas, in these traditions they are often refered to as Kuji-in and Ketsu-in. The concept of encirling energy is pretty much on the money there, it comes down to what each of the fingers themselves represent (the left hand is the "spiritual" world, the right is the "material" world, each finger representing the various elemental concepts that make up both worlds [the Godai concept]). In essence, Hannin is a hand position used in all Gyokko Ryu kamae when required (RVD is demonstrating Hannin Jumonji no Kamae there, Hatsumi does the same on the Gyokko Ryu DVD in the Mutodori Gata, he demonstrates a Hannin Doko no Kamae [a litttle different to Togakure's Doko no Kamae, by the way...] in Essence of Ninjutsu, and there are a few other examples dotted around), and involves concepts of empowering and protecting the practitioner.



Very very interesting.  I did know there was a little more to it jumping up and down in a moshpit, but not that much.  It's fun to learn and I retract the "dopey".


----------



## Supra Vijai (Jan 26, 2011)

Eh we're all learning  Seriously though we have normal class, then as I called it on here our second class with the history and philosophy and what not then this is like my 3rd class. Amazing just how much is overlooked or hidden in the most basic things till someone with a world of knowledge points it out


----------



## Cirdan (Jan 26, 2011)

Supra Vijai said:


> Cirdan, do you mean Raven possibly? He trains NinjItsu. At least in the movie and the later games that is. Yoshimitsu becomes a Samurai warrior who lives by the sword. I'm not a nerd....


 
They both do Ninjutsu, tho Yoshimitsu does a lot of other strange stuff too. Tekkenpedia calls it "a blend of ninjutsu, sword attacks, and special stances". Not to mention he is the leader if a ninja clan.

Actually if you beat Yoshimitsu with Raven in Tekken 5 arcade, Raven gives him lessons to improve his ninjutsu (those hand forms from Gi Joe comics, also show in Raven`s Tekken 6 ending).

Not nerdy enough to see the movie, but as far as I know it differs a lot with the story in the games.


----------



## Supra Vijai (Jan 26, 2011)

Ahh my bad, you're right it does still list him as Ninjutsu. Yeah movie is way off but not bad for a no brainer action flick, just leave any knowledge of the games behind when you watch it


----------



## Cirdan (Jan 27, 2011)

Supra Vijai said:


> Ahh my bad, you're right it does still list him as Ninjutsu. Yeah movie is way off but not bad for a no brainer action flick, just leave any knowledge of the games behind when you watch it


 
Ok, perhaps I`ll watch it. And earn a Karate 4th Dan in the process since Jin is the main character. Cheaper than Van Donk`s dvds too.


----------



## DuskB4Dawn (Jan 28, 2011)

> Did you do the sensory perception training (where you stand in Mushin with you eyes close and someone attacks you from behind slowly and with intent and you need to sense their intent and move away)? Surely you did it at least once, we trained it for a month! There's your Gyokko intuition... well intuition in general.


 yes i have done this a few times in class. im starting to pick this up but i feel i need to train this more to refine my skills because at the moment i cant differentiate between someone starring at me and real killer intent. anyone can tell when someone is starring naturally. thats why the girl walking down the street turns to look at me coz ive been starring at her butt too long lol its natural. but to sense danger would be more usefull. hopefully i can refine my skills in the future. were not doing gyokko ryu anymore so i guess for koto ryu it would hand conditioning??? i doubt that will ever happen =) one can only hope


----------



## Supra Vijai (Jan 28, 2011)

DuskB4Dawn said:


> yes i have done this a few times in class. im starting to pick this up but i feel i need to train this more to refine my skills because at the moment i cant differentiate between someone starring at me and real killer intent. anyone can tell when someone is starring naturally. *thats why the girl walking down the street turns to look at me coz ive been starring at her butt too long lol* its natural. but to sense danger would be more usefull. hopefully i can refine my skills in the future. were not doing gyokko ryu anymore so i guess for koto ryu it would hand conditioning??? i doubt that will ever happen =) one can only hope



That sentence right there makes you uncle creepy 

On another thread here there was some maths presented. Our classes go for an hour and a half right? 3 main sections (traditional, weapons, modern), if you take out bow in and warm ups as well as breaks  between each, we end up with 20 minutes per section at best. Something like sensory perception generally will be 10 minutes though max. 10 mins x 4 weeks = 40 minutes. Say we do it 3 times a year then it's 120 minutes or *2 hours a year*. No where enough for you to develop it based solely on class. Like everything else we train in class, if you want to get half decent at it, you need to train at home in your own time. Sensory Perception/Saaki/Intuition whatever you call it is the same. You don't need to have attackers coming at you to practice it, awareness is being aware of everything not just someone trying to kill you. Practice being aware of cars on the street, people, trees, pets etc. You want a fun way to practice try this. My girlfriends have loved it. Pay attention to what someone is wearing, take note of the details and store it in memory. Great party trick when a year or 2 after the fact you can turn around and tell someone what they were wearing the first time you ever met. 

As for hand conditioning, again something for you to do at home. Speak to Sensei Parker first though and do it as a proper 30 day program. Speaking from experience it's not fun to try it on your own against a bag or makiwara board and taking all the skin off your knuckles. I did that once when I first started and one of the other seniors told me in no uncertain terms to get my hands cleaned up and that I would not be allowed to train in his dojo if I came back in with my hands like they were.


----------



## DuskB4Dawn (Jan 28, 2011)

> Okay, DuskB4Dawn, no you didn't cover that aspect. There's a lot I didn't go through, such as the Gassho Kamae, use of walnuts (really!), a range of weaponry aspects


walnuts !? this must be some super deadly ninja weapon or just a joke. I cant see how walnuts could be very dangerous unless you choke on one lol 

by the way yoshimitsu is my favourite video game character as you can see from my avatar. he is so bad *** that nothing you say will tarnish his image 
yoshimitsu is actually the name of his possessed sword. it is said that the sword craves blood and controls anyone who wields it. and only yoshimitsu can control it. whoever owns the sword is called yoshimitsu and is leader of the manji clan. 
yoshimitsu looks like a monster but infact he is very honourable. he detest evil and villians and uses his manji clan to protect the innocent and help the poor. pretty big story huh. well thats only the half of it.
raven is some new character ninja wannabe. if you play as yoshi and defeate raven in the game you can see yoshi mock him as being a fake ninja.


----------



## Chris Parker (Jan 28, 2011)

Sensory training two to three times a year (a fair amount when we cover Togakure Ryu from July to December), yes the walnuts is serious, the maths there is generous in many counts, home training is key, and handconditioning will be in March (including the opportunity to get some traditional hand-conditioning lotion for those interested, more details in class as time goes on), you all need to work on the initial strikes at the beginning of class before you try that, and I think that's about enough for you to think about for a while!


----------



## Supra Vijai (Jan 28, 2011)

Short, sweet and very to the point


----------



## Bruno@MT (Jan 28, 2011)

There is a tendency for people to look at the cool, advanced or special stuff, and want to go there immediately. But even Hatsumi sensei or Tanemura sensei spent a loooong time practicing the basics before they got to train any of that. IIRC Manaka sensei first learned basic punches, kicks and ukemi so that he could act as the class uke for the first couple of years.


----------



## Supra Vijai (Jan 28, 2011)

Bruno@MT said:


> There is a tendency for people to look at the cool, advanced or special stuff, and want to go there immediately. But even Hatsumi sensei or Tanemura sensei spent a loooong time practicing the basics before they got to train any of that. IIRC Manaka sensei first learned basic punches, kicks and ukemi so that he could act as the class uke for the first couple of years.



We just got told a story recently about how intense training could be back in the day. How some of the best, most respected martial artists could spend years just getting beaten up to the point of almost broken bones or to unconciousness before being revived and beaten again as a way of testing them before they got any real training. I'm not naming names here because I have no idea how to spell them


----------



## Bruno@MT (Jan 28, 2011)

Exactly. So while it is normal to be interested in the sensitivity training, saaki, kuji-in, etc, I don't really care about them except perhaps on a theoretical level out of simple curiosity. Personally -I don't want to sound pedantic - I think that if you've only been training for a couple of years, your basic taijutsu should still be the topic to invest your time.

At least with me that still leaves a lot to be desired after only a couple of years, even though I've come a long way since I first tried ichimonji no kamae. And as long that is not of a satisfactory level, the more esoteric stuff is only going to be a distraction from what is really important. Kinda like obsessing which icing to put on a cake, before you even have a cake or even the ingredients. Don't get too hung up on the icing. Running before you can walk will only set you back in the long run.

I'll climb down from my soapbox now


----------



## DuskB4Dawn (Jan 28, 2011)

yeah im definitely the type to rush to the advanced stuff. thats just because it looks awesome and the basics seem boring. but i am also rather pedantic about learning all the details of the basics. every little bit of the technique and all the veriations.I want to know it all but if i were to learn like this it really would take a long time. 
but like alot of peaple said its about training at home to get the most of it. i ltry to practice the sanshin no gata at home. this really is improving my movements and getting that programmed into me. and i used to do hand conditioning daily but my sensei told me to stop and wait till i get shown this properly to avoid injury.

is it so bad to have a taste of the advanced stuff every now and than to keep things interesting. the basic taijutsu is already awesome and the extra is the icing on the cake 

by the way sensei parker. during Togakure Ryu are you gonna cover anything on stealth walking?


----------



## Chris Parker (Jan 29, 2011)

The advanced stuff is really just the basic stuff done very well, so if you are in a hurry to get to the advanced stuff, work on the basic stuff more. It's the only way to get there, anything else is just heading in the wrong direction. It's the difference between the way I take someone's balance, and the way you do. It's the difference between when I hit with my entire body moving behind the strike, and when you hit with your arm. The more you confuse yourself with other ideas, the longer it'll take you to get this method down. Right now, Sanshin is always good for movement, angling, timing, distancing etc, that combined with the kihon striking we're doing at the beginning of the class is your best way to get it down. The basics are the art. Without them, there is nothing, no advanced, nothing. So most of your home training should be on them.

Next, you do have a tendancy to go into fantasy land quite a bit. Try to avoid that (without bringing class material into this), for example you posted yesterday in the "Ninjutsu for Beginners" thread that:



DuskB4Dawn said:


> yeah I can see inclass i reach out way to much on my strikes. then sensei parker spotted me and corrected me. it only takes someone to grab your arm when your of balance and reaching forword and pull you forward and your gone.* nowdays i try to keep my back straight and everything compact and stable. if i need to get closser i try to use footwork instead of compromising my balance.* I really believe in kinetic linking to generate alot of power but info on it is hard to find unless your a boxer. but I find jkd has alot of this so ive been looking at that to improve my striking technique


 
That message was posted approximately 28 hours after I pulled you off balance and explained that to you, so I'm not sure that "nowadays" is correct. Let's see how you go in just the next lesson keeping in mind what I said first, okay?

Okay, when we cover Togakure Ryu I will be going through the entire system. That includes stealth, disguise, concealment, Taijutsu, Bikenjutsu, and more. Be patient, Koto Ryu is a brilliant system, and far more practical to train in, so enjoy that first. As well as that, both Gyokko and Koto Ryu are required to be trained in first to really get what Togakure Ryu is about, as well as understand the way it moves. They're like the pre-requisites to the system.

That said, this isn't your class space, guys, if you have questions about the class, feel free to email me or call me. You should have those details.


----------



## Supra Vijai (Jan 29, 2011)

Chris Parker said:


> That said, this isn't your class space, guys, if you have questions about the class, feel free to email me or call me. You should have those details.



Sorry about that Sensei... I'll keep my comments re: class stuff to PM's in future


----------



## Chris Parker (Jan 29, 2011)

Wasn't just to you. My brief style of posting earlier was to show that I was getting it all out in one hit. A forum is not a one-on-one conversation, it's an all-inclusive discussion board. I don't want other members excluded because they weren't at our classes. 

By all means discuss concepts and experiences from class when you want, but asking about what we're going to cover shouldn't be coming up here. Okay?


----------



## Supra Vijai (Jan 29, 2011)

I know but I did play my part in it hence the apology from my end. Understood with the all inclusiveness.


----------



## DuskB4Dawn (Jan 29, 2011)

thank you for explaining that to me Sensei Parker. and ill try to keep my post on topic etc


----------

