# Royal Kung Fu Kun Tao?



## Obi Wan Shinobi (May 30, 2008)

Have any of you guys ever heard of this particular style of Kung Fu? I have an nephew who is interested in Kung Fu and they are offering this particular style at the local YMCA in Tampa, Fl. Here's a website to this style any info will be highly appreciated. 

www.worldkungfu.com/masterreeders.html


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## Flying Crane (May 30, 2008)

I don't know anything about this particular style, nor the instructor, but I'll give you my impressions from poking about on the website.

First of all, I believe that Kuntao is a term used in reference to the fighting arts practiced in Indonesia, by ethnic Chinese who immigrated there.  These arts are based on various Chinese kung fu methods that were brought in the immigration process, but often have some Indonesian influences in them, and may or may not have changed significantly from their Chinese root arts.  This doesn't meant that they are inherently superior or inferior.  Like all martial arts, if done by someone who understands it well and has trained properly, it can be devastating.  If done by someone who doesn't understand it well and has not trained properly, it is worthless.

Now, about this particular group, or at least my impressions based on how the instructor has presented himself in his website...

I'd say he is trying to give the impression that he is the one and only Recepticle of Truth and Wisdom, in this art.  The link you supplied is his summary of his training, and he states that nobody who trained after 1965 and who is under age 60 could possibly have the complete and true understanding of this art, etc. etc. yadda yadda yadda.  In my opinion, this stinks of ego.  Of course I could be wrong, and with regards to this particular art, he may be telling the truth.  But I tend to be skeptical of such claims.

Poking around he rest of the website, it seems that he likes to be sort of "mystical" about things, and that may be a marketing strategy.  I don't care for this approach, and it is the kind of thing that makes me walk in the other direction.  

Like I said, this guy could be the real deal.  I don't know.  But his website is how he presents himself to the world, and this is my impression based on that website.


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## Tames D (May 30, 2008)

Ego isn't always a bad thing. I would check it out and see for myself if they can back it up. Since it's being offered at the local ymca I would bet that it's a significantly lower cost to train there than at the other training halls in the area.


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## Xue Sheng (May 30, 2008)

From the page - Kun Tao

Kuntao does not generally fall under the name Kung Fu but there are Chinese martial arts in it and I would not call it Royal but that is just me.

The whole Prince story I have my doubt about, but I do no doubt the effectiveness of Kuntao. Best thing to do IMO is go have a look and if there are other MA and CMA schools in the area go look at them as well and compare.

Kuntao


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## Catalyst (May 30, 2008)

Obi Wan Shinobi said:


> Have any of you guys ever heard of this particular style of Kung Fu? I have an nephew who is interested in Kung Fu and they are offering this particular style at the local YMCA in Tampa, Fl. Here's a website to this style any info will be highly appreciated.
> 
> www.worldkungfu.com/masterreeders.html


 
I've heard of the Art and I've always seen it spelled Liu Seong. It's a legitimate Art (IMHO), however, you don't select an Art, you ultimately select a Teacher.

Here's some previous threads on MartialTalk that may give you more perspective or information.

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=912
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12716

Good Luck in your search


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## tellner (May 30, 2008)

Willem Reeders was a Kun Tao player with some serious chops. He was a bit of a legend in the circles he traveled in. There's also no doubt that Savelli studied with him. But I've followed the site on and off over the years. There has been a parade of the most egregious ********. It's tapered off, but there were woo-woo action at a distance claims and a lot of similar stuff back in the day. Maybe Savelli has toned it down. Maybe he doesn't believe it anymore. In any case I'd be a little skeptical of the more outrageous claims.


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## Obi Wan Shinobi (May 30, 2008)

Thanks guys for the useful info...I myself being a former Chinese martial artist had never heard of Kun Tao as the instructor kept referring it as a military style of Kung Fu. But again thanks guys I really appreciate you input.


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## Xue Sheng (May 30, 2008)

Obi Wan Shinobi said:


> Thanks guys for the useful info...I myself being a former Chinese martial artist had never heard of Kun Tao as the instructor kept referring it as a military style of Kung Fu. But again thanks guys I really appreciate you input.


 
Note: Kun Tao is not the military style of Kung Fu for that you would be looking to Bajiquan, Xingyiquan and more recently Sanda.


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## Obi Wan Shinobi (May 31, 2008)

Well here's the actual website for the school in Tampa. The school logo is the reason why I had put "Royal" Kung Fu in the heading.

www.royalkungfu.com


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## Xue Sheng (May 31, 2008)

They can call it whatever they want and it may very likely be from some prince but Kun Tao is not Kung fu and it was not ever used by the Chinese Military.

However from what little I know of Kun Tao it is very effective


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## tellner (May 31, 2008)

I see where you're coming from Xue Sheng, but I have to disagree just a little. Kun Tao in the broader sense is literally Chinese boxing. I forget which dialect the actual word comes from. There are Kun Tao players who do Xing Yi and Bajiquan, so insofar as they resemble their Chinese forbearers they are still the military-derived Chinese martial arts. Of course, most Kun Tao players do not do those martial arts, and in some cases I'm sure they have diverged quite a bit from the original style. 

Your general point is spot on. Most Chinese martial artists do not do military martial arts. Why would they want to limit themselves if they don't carry spears or rifles for a living? Neither do most people practicing the Chinese martial arts as they evolved further South. Chances of running into a Turkic horse nomad in Sumatra? Darned slim. Chances of running into a slender  Harimau-playing brown man with a big curved knife in Beijing? Not real high.


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## Xue Sheng (May 31, 2008)

tellner said:


> I see where you're coming from Xue Sheng, but I have to disagree just a little. Kun Tao in the broader sense is literally Chinese boxing. I forget which dialect the actual word comes from. There are Kun Tao players who do Xing Yi and Bajiquan, so insofar as they resemble their Chinese forbearers they are still the military-derived Chinese martial arts. Of course, most Kun Tao players do not do those martial arts, and in some cases I'm sure they have diverged quite a bit from the original style.
> 
> Your general point is spot on. Most Chinese martial artists do not do military martial arts. Why would they want to limit themselves if they don't carry spears or rifles for a living? Neither do most people practicing the Chinese martial arts as they evolved further South. Chances of running into a Turkic horse nomad in Sumatra? Darned slim. Chances of running into a slender Harimau-playing brown man with a big curved knife in Beijing? Not real high.


 
OK I sit corrected.. kind f hard to stand and type 

There are is Kuntao in China and Taiwan but I have heard of it more form Indonesia, Malaysia and I see it is also in the Philippines and Singapore.

However I am betting that the styles of Kuntao vary greatly between what you find in China and Taiwan and what you find in Indonesia and Malaysia.

Regardless, it is, from what little I know of it, rather effective. However it is not, nor was it ever a Chinese Military martial art. It likely has bits and pieces of various Chinese Military arts may even resemble them but it was never taught to the Chinese military. 

This is why I say it never was a Chinese military martial art since it was never trained, specifically, to the Chinese military throughout China's long history. This is not to say that a soldier here and there did not know or train Kuntao he just did not learn it form the Chinese military. 

There are soldier today in China that do Shaolin were trained at Shaolin and trained Sanshou at Shaolin before joining the PLA but the Sanshou (Sanda) they learned from Shaolin or any of the Shaolin martial arts are not military martial arts, not even the Sanshou. They will learn a different version (considerably more nasty actually) of Sanshou from the military. 

So I will continue to state that Kuntao was not nor has it ever been a Chinese Military Martial Art. However I will now say it is, at least one branch of it, Chinese. But I still have my doubts about the whole Royal claim thing.

Kuntao it is from Hokkien Chinese dialect meaning Way of the Fist or Fist Way similar to Quanfa. 

And I have to admit much of the above location stuff is from the link I provided previously so I should read stuff more carefully and without bias

Note: Chinese Military martial arts such as Xingyiquan as it was taught years ago to the military were rather weapons heavy. Xingyiquan taught a rather wide rang of weapons at one time, but one of the big weapons of Xingyiquan is a long spear. Bajiquan I know less about the only thing I am certain of is it is the favored style of Bodyguards in Taiwan particularly those that were guarding Chiang Kai-shek and it is also rather effective.

As for the current CMA of the PLA it is Sanda and it is taught and trained with and against various weapons but of course the preferred weapon of any military foot soldier is a gun and you are not about to attack a guy carrying a gun with Sanda on a battle field if you to are carrying a gun. 

But there are other version of Sanda taught all over China, Sport and civilian. Also the average civilian is not military arts, not even Sanda they are taught a civilian version but I am quite certain there are civilians that have been taught Police/Military Sanda in China. Hell if I have a sifu here (albeit this is a rare find in the US) I am certain they have them there. They must that is where my sifu learned it.


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