# interesting question about rank/promotions



## Atlanta-Kenpo (Jan 13, 2005)

There are many extremely qualified kenpo intructors out there who started out in another system and later on chaged to EPAKK.  If an instructor is a 5th degree in American Karate and then learns EPAKK but never test for blk or is only promoted to 1st degree in EPAKK.  

Can they promote you to blk in EPAKK?.  Or would you be a American Karate  bb that learned the kenpo system?

Does anyone know how this works?

 :idunno:


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## Blindside (Jan 13, 2005)

The way I have seen it usually work is that a blackbelt is restricted from promoting to one or two degrees below where he/she is at.  So it usually takes a 2nd or 3rd to promote someone to a 1st. I'm sure that there are alot of other systems out there though.  

In your case I would say that instructor can't promote anyone to black in kenpo, he's just a first in it.  Just because I received a BS in college doesn't give me the ability to award a bachelors degree.  I would say that a blackbelt student of his is a American Karate (whatever that is) is an American Karate blackbelt who has alot of kenpo in his curricullum.  I'm not one to nitpick lineages, but that is how I would interpret the situation.

Lamont


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## dubljay (Jan 13, 2005)

Let me see if I can answer your question...

 I would first like to state that my knowledge of all forms of Kenpo is very limited.  My knowledge of the 24 technique system of EPAK is somewhat better, yet limited.

 ******I appologize in advance to any gross errors**********

 First of all, to my knowledge you are not "certified" to teach EPAK until you have reached 4th black.  It is at 4th black where the technique extensions stop (in the 24 technique system that is).  

 The following is my opinion on the matter and has no real reflection to that of national organizations of kenpo.

 What I am getting out of your question is you are concerned with the "validity" of instruction.  Those who know Kenpo will recognize it when they see it.  Kenpo is Kenpo regardless of politics of promotions.  Whether or not national organizations, or the Kenpo school across town will recognize any black belts promoted is another matter.  The validity of these promotions is questionable, in that first black is not the end of material in Kenpo (which is the case in most any MA system)  In one sense it is akin to a 3rd brown promoting a green belt to 3rd brown.  While the person my be deserving of the rank how is a brown belt to decide if some one is performing to brown belt level?  Simply put they lack the experience to make that sort of a judgement call.  It is the same for first black.


 Mr. Billings or Goldendragon may be of more help.

 Again I appologize for any serious factual errors.

 -Josh-


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## Seig (Jan 13, 2005)

In a situation like this, typically, the instructor may recommend someone for promotion, but it the final decision is up to the Instructor's instructor.


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## TwistofFat (Jan 14, 2005)

Seig said:
			
		

> In a situation like this, typically, the instructor may recommend someone for promotion, but it the final decision is up to the Instructor's instructor.


Seig, agree with your assessment. I tested for my 1st BB in EPAK under a 4th in EPAK, yet he even invited several other BB's (3rd, 4th) to witness my test. He had also called his instructor to let him know. Maybe overkill but a very public affair. I would not feel comfortable promoting another individual to 1BB under EPAK (my rank) even though I am ranked higher in another system (AK). 

Regards - Glenn.


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## teej (Jan 14, 2005)

3rd blk is full Instructor rank in Kenpo so a 3rd can go off on his own. As I was brought up under Mr. Wedlake, a 1st degree can teach Kenpo and promote Kenpo as long as he is activiely studying under a higher ranked Kenpo Instructor.

As for what you are ranked in? Well what material were you tested on, Kenpo forms and techniques or American Kenpo stuff? Did you have from short #1 all the way up to form #4? If you have concerns about your certificates validity or what you are ranked in, ask your instructors' instructor.

Normally you can only promote someone to one rank under yours. But Atlanta Kenpo has an interesting question and obvious concerns. As I know that you are currently attending Kenpo seminars with Mr. Wedlake, ask him.

Teej


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## Atlanta-Kenpo (Jan 14, 2005)

I agree that one rank is not as important as ones knowledge and skill.  As Mr Wedlake wrote in Kenpo 101 you could get better instruction from a 1st degree if he was trained/taught correctly compared to the 15th degree super grand champion of the universe in your phone book.

It is quite easy to find out what someone skill is and that it to train with them.

This question came to my mind not just through my own experiences but rather I have met many very talented kenpoist that were taught/trained by someone who started out else where and then converted to kenpo.  I am extremely luck to have the lineage that I do and I have been taught very goood quality EPK.  However, lineage is important for many reason and I am sure we can all agree about that.

I guess a good example would be that many kenpoist crosstrain in KALI but do not test for rank yet, once we understand the material we teach what we have been taught without being "certified".  Can we promote someone on that Kali material that we have been taught?

Can you be certified to teach EPK like Kali + JKD?  
 :asian:


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## kevin kilroe (Jan 17, 2005)

Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah,blah, Blah, Blah,............


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## kevin kilroe (Jan 17, 2005)

The blah blahs were for atlanta-kenpo. I promote you to 10th degree in the art of kenpokempokaliarnisescrimajkdbjjak.


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## Kenpobuff (Jan 18, 2005)

Promote as you see fit in your own world.  You have to answer to yourself and your student's abiltiy.  It's your rep and your instructors that is hanging out there.


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## Atlanta-Kenpo (Jan 18, 2005)

thanks for the promotion kk
hahahahahahah
Your right!
Rank and lineage are useless with out skill and knowledge
 :asian:


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