# Problems with Instructor



## Dragonarnisador (May 2, 2009)

I need peoples opinions on a matter about the school I train at. I don't want to say anything bad or anything that may seem bad towards my school or instructor.

I have been training there for almost 6 months and will be grading to yellow sash soon. My instructor has only done the syllabus to orange sash. Hes trained in Modern Arnis and other FMA and hes created his own style. He seems to be pulling away from Arnis and concentrating on BJJ, MMA, Kickboxing and Boxing. He only takes 1 class for Arnis a week but his most senior student takes the rest she even increased the number of classes off her own back. Soon we'll get close to her level and then it will be a real slow down of learning for us as the instructor shows little interest in Arnis anymore.

The senior student has raised the number of students from say 6 to over 12 regular students.

I love FMA and even though I know very little in the way of techniques etc but I can see that it will be piontless training there if he doesn't take more interest in Arnis. In fact the senior student is starting to look for another school.

Which I must admit I have also done the same.

Does anyone have any advice they can share?


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## theletch1 (May 2, 2009)

Simply put... find another school.  From your description it sounds like your instructor doesn't have a solid grasp on the path he wants to take and is wandering.  If you're interested in wandering with him and training in all of those different styles you could stay.  Sounds, though, as if you're interested in the FMA as a solid base and "home" style so I'd go else where were I you.  Many of us on this board have changed schools at one point or another and for various reasons so changing wouldn't be a huge breech of ethics.


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## Brian R. VanCise (May 2, 2009)

I think in the end you will probably have to find another school.  However, try to talk with him and explain your position.


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## jks9199 (May 2, 2009)

I'm confused.  Is your "instructor" only one step ahead of you in the material he's teaching?  In other words -- is he basically like a school teacher who's one chapter ahead of the class?  

That's not good, if that's the case.  Find a truly qualified instructor.

Or is the instructor simply not teaching the material you're interested in, and leaving it in the hands of a barely qualified assistant?

That's not good either, for many of the same reasons.

Talk to your instructor -- but it sounds like you might be better off finding someone with the proper qualifications to teach.


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## Brian Johns (May 2, 2009)

My take on this:

It depends. I don't perceive it to be a problem if the instructor is merely one step ahead of his students ONLY if he/she is genuinely seeking out further instruction on a frequent, regular basis in order to improve his/her understanding of the art.  This shows the student that the instructor is interested in learning and self improvement.

On the other hand, if it appears that the instructor is not interested in pursuing a particular art or furthering his/her understanding of the art, that will be a problem.

If FMA is truly what you want to learn and things don't improve in your school, then I would seek out another school that offers more qualified instruction.

Keep us posted !!

Regards,
Brian Johns


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## tellner (May 2, 2009)

Like everyone else said, find someone who is teaching what you want to learn.


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## Thems Fighting Words (May 2, 2009)

Brian Johns said:


> My take on this:
> 
> It depends. I don't perceive it to be a problem if the instructor is merely one step ahead of his students ONLY if he/she is genuinely seeking out further instruction on a frequent, regular basis in order to improve his/her understanding of the art.  This shows the student that the instructor is interested in learning and self improvement.
> 
> On the other hand, if it appears that the instructor is not interested in pursuing a particular art or furthering his/her understanding of the art, that will be a problem.



Agree completely. If your instructor is knowledgeable enough to teach you and keep you advancing in FMA at a pace you consider reasonable then I wouldn't be too concerned with how "high up" he is. Look at BJJ, a blue belt should be able to teach up to their level and hopefully by the time their students are blue belt, they'll be purple. 

However if you think he has no long term commitment, then maybe you should be looking around for a new school. The only problem I can forsee is that FMAs are no-where near as common as most other MAs and many that I have known of are "back-yard" schools which means that at a lower level it'll be harder for you to decide what is authentic and realistic. 

Either way, good luck my friend. :mst: (this is my favourite smiley)


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## seasoned (May 2, 2009)

Do what you feel in your heart. You don,t want to look back with any regrets later on. These are the important years for building a strong foundation, in something you enjoy doing.


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## jks9199 (May 2, 2009)

Brian Johns said:


> My take on this:
> 
> It depends. I don't perceive it to be a problem if the instructor is merely one step ahead of his students ONLY if he/she is genuinely seeking out further instruction on a frequent, regular basis in order to improve his/her understanding of the art.  This shows the student that the instructor is interested in learning and self improvement.
> 
> ...


While a teacher should still be learning -- you can't teach something that you don't have a pretty good grounding in.  Whether that rank is defined as black belt or blue belt (BJJ, for example), or a separate instructor designation/license, the student is being set up for failure if the instructor is still learning the basics and staying just ahead of the students.  They almost certainly will learn bad habits and be unable to have them corrected until the "instructor" has more experience and knowledge.


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## Dragonarnisador (May 3, 2009)

Brian R. VanCise said:


> I think in the end you will probably have to find another school.  However, try to talk with him and explain your position.



Actually... the senior student has raised this concern with him but hes not interested in listening and is sometimes condescending towards her.


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## Dragonarnisador (May 3, 2009)

jks9199 said:


> I'm confused.  Is your "instructor" only one step ahead of you in the material he's teaching?  In other words -- is he basically like a school teacher who's one chapter ahead of the class?
> 
> That's not good, if that's the case.  Find a truly qualified instructor.
> 
> ...



Hes qualified..... he just hasn't put a grading syllabus together for any rank above orange. To be fair he does work fulltime during the day but hes had a number of years to put the syllabus together..... trust me he knows a lot but is very procastinated when it comes to doing anything thats not training.


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## Brian R. VanCise (May 3, 2009)

Dragonarnisador said:


> Actually... the senior student has raised this concern with him but hes not interested in listening and is sometimes condescending towards her.



Maybe a second person bringing it up will help him get going. (just a thought) 

However, from the sounds of it you probably will need to start looking.


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## Dragonarnisador (May 3, 2009)

Brian R. VanCise said:


> Maybe a second person bringing it up will help him get going. (just a thought)
> 
> However, from the sounds of it you probably will need to start looking.



I have found another school.....haven't looked at it yet but it teaches Kombatan.


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## DragonMind (May 4, 2009)

Another perspective to consider.

I ran into a similar situation a number of years back. My Arnis teacher was running a Kenpo school and had learned his stuff from seminars by Remy Presas and Bruce Chiu. After a short time, it became clear that we had exhausted his knowledge level. I had no other choice but to start looking. I live in a small town so finding more Arnis was basically out of the question.

I eventually found Dan Anderson's books and they were a God-send. I flew out to Portland and spent a weekend training with him and he accepted me as a long-distance student. Over the last several years we get together at seminars or private lessons so he can refine what I'm doing in person. In between, we keep in touch by phone, email and video. This has been a remarkably effective way to keep my own learning going under a very skilled instructor. If this type of training could work for you, I highly recommend contacting Dan and getting some of his material. He is a gifted teacher and has a terrific way of explaining things at a conceptual and principle-based level so you can really "get it" instead of just memorizing a bunch of techniques.


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## kaizasosei (May 4, 2009)

You can't choose your parents, you can't choose your place of birth but you can choose your teacher(s).  That is probably one of the biggest choices in life.


j


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## Guro Harold (May 4, 2009)

DragonMind said:


> Another perspective to consider.
> 
> I ran into a similar situation a number of years back. My Arnis teacher was running a Kenpo school and had learned his stuff from seminars by Remy Presas and Bruce Chiu. After a short time, it became clear that we had exhausted his knowledge level. I had no other choice but to start looking. I live in a small town so finding more Arnis was basically out of the question.
> 
> I eventually found Dan Anderson's books and they were a God-send. I flew out to Portland and spent a weekend training with him and he accepted me as a long-distance student. Over the last several years we get together at seminars or private lessons so he can refine what I'm doing in person. In between, we keep in touch by phone, email and video. This has been a remarkably effective way to keep my own learning going under a very skilled instructor. If this type of training could work for you, I highly recommend contacting Dan and getting some of his material. He is a gifted teacher and has a terrific way of explaining things at a conceptual and principle-based level so you can really "get it" instead of just memorizing a bunch of techniques.


 
Hi Mr McConnell,

Have you heard of Guro Mike Jennings in Tallahassee? He is an excellent instructor in the area.

Best regards,

Guro Harold


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## arnisador (May 4, 2009)

You need to start looking around and at least get a better baseline on what's a good school and what isn't.


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## Mark Lynn (May 4, 2009)

Dragonarnisador said:


> I have found another school.....haven't looked at it yet but it teaches Kombatan.



Dragonarnisador

I'd check out this school, it might be a good fit for you.  From your first post you said your instructor has studied Modern Arnis, Kombatan was created by GM Remy's brother so they compliment each other in several ways.

The techniques, names, etc. etc. are similar.

Also if the instructor hasn't laid out his curriculum past Orange (sash or belt) I wouldn't worry about it to much, *if and it's a big if* he is skilled way beyond that level.  Which from the sounds of it he is.  I'm still modifying what I teach, and I procrastinate, and yes after 15 years of trying to put together my curriculum, I'm still jacking with it.

But the other side is this, it sounds like your instructor, doesn't care about his students.  You mentioned he is condescending towards his highest ranked student, one that is teaching his FMA classes no less, when they brought some concerns to him,  also that he doesn't want to listen to them.  

Putting together a sylabus isn't for the instructor, it's for the students.  It helps the instructor stay on track to teach their students but it's really so they know what they are expected to learn, how to act etc. etc.  It sounds as if the guy is more worried about training then helping out his students who are paying for his instruction.  So if the guy is all about himself, not caring for raising his students above a certain level, nor listening to them when there is a possible problem, and last but not least is condensending to them.  Then I would have to agree with the other instructors on the board who are saying go check out another school. 

To be honest you need to find someone who isn't so into their own training as much as they are into helping their students grow in their training.  I wouldn't worry about titles, rank, or even skill as much as I would worry about can they teach and communicate the techniques, theories, histories, etc. etc. to me.  Can they help me progress?  Can they help me learn to reach my goals (whatever they may be)?

Mark


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## Dragonarnisador (May 5, 2009)

The Boar Man said:


> Dragonarnisador
> 
> I'd check out this school, it might be a good fit for you.  From your first post you said your instructor has studied Modern Arnis, Kombatan was created by GM Remy's brother so they compliment each other in several ways.
> 
> ...



I was talking the senior student yesterday and we are going to check out the other school. I'm a loyal student and even though, the instructor is the way he is....its hard to leave the school, if you know what I mean.

Yeah... I think I will have to look at that school and maybe even find more and check them out before really picking one to train at.

Thanks for the advice.


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## DragonMind (May 11, 2009)

Guro Harold said:


> Hi Mr McConnell,
> 
> Have you heard of Guro Mike Jennings in Tallahassee? He is an excellent instructor in the area.
> 
> ...


Thank you, yes. I know Mike very well and have trained with him many times. He is an excellent teacher and a credit to Tuhon Dionaldo and Guro Cortez. I need to call him, thank you for putting the bug in my ear.


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## Guro Harold (May 11, 2009)

DragonMind said:


> Thank you, yes. I know Mike very well and have trained with him many times. He is an excellent teacher and a credit to Tuhon Dionaldo and Guro Cortez. I need to call him, thank you for putting the bug in my ear.


Cool!

He had his wife will be moving to Denver, Co in three months. FCS-Kali is coming to Denver!


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