# Dan Curriculuum



## Explorer (Aug 4, 2006)

Does your system or school have a curiculuum for the Dan ranks?  Everybody has a curriculuum for the kyu ranks ... but many have little direction for advanced students beyond time in rank and classes attended.

I wonder if this is why the dropout rate at 1st Dan seems so high.


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## SFC JeffJ (Aug 4, 2006)

Funny you should bring this up.  Just a couple of days ago my fellow bb's and I, (boy I like saying that), were talking about the same thing.  It seems that for the kyu ranks every step is mapped out.  Not so for the black belts.  Now I think for the Dan grades, things should be a little more free form, but a few nudges in the right direction would be good.  Personally, I'm just going back to the beginning and re-evaluating my basics.

Jeff


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## KempoShaun (Aug 4, 2006)

Oh yes, in Tenchi Bujutsu we have our curiculuum mapped out through 6th Dan (considering 5th is the highest person in the system, we've made progress)


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## Flying Crane (Aug 4, 2006)

in Tracy Kenpo, there is a set curriculum thru 5th black.  It is more lists of self defense techs., along with some more forms.  Looks like Tracys has also incorporated material from some Chinese arts as well.

I am somewhat familiar with the techs for the higher belts, but not intimately.  But they seemed to me to be mostly more of the same kind of stuff found at the lower level.  A few good ideas that seem kind of new, but not a whole lot.  This relates to my feeling that Tracys simply has too many SD techs to begin with.  Unrealistic, lots of repetition, too many to master, but some good ones in the mix as well.  Personally, I don't see a lot of purpose in learning all these at this point, it is just sort of overdone to death.

I would rather see a trend for higher levels to explore deeper issues in the arts, like internal training.  Not just collecting more SD techs that aren't necessary, and often aren't useful.


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## Kacey (Aug 4, 2006)

In ITF TKD, there is a curriculum set through 7th Dan, which is master instructor rank in the ITF.


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## chinto01 (Aug 4, 2006)

We have a cirriculum for the dan ranks in our dojo. But we also encourage them to do some research on their own. I think that drop outs happen at sho-dan for a couple of reasons. First is that the new sho-dan feels he has reachd his goal and has nothing else to learn. Second is that the new sho-dan starts to teach at the dojo more and learn less because the instructor has no cirriculum for the dan ranks. Both of these were the case at the dojo I attended when I began my martial arts career. Needless to say I left that dojo and found a new home in the same style where learning is constantly encouraged.

In the spirit of bushido!

Rob


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## TimoS (Aug 4, 2006)

In our system there is a curriculum for upto 8. dan (our maximum), but after 4. dan the requirements are "simple":

1. Has to know all techniques and kata
2. Has to be have proof of ability to teach
3. Written exam: subject is given at examination or beforehand

From 6. dan onwards you would have to have proof of further developing the style. Also for 7. dan you'd have to have a Renshi grade and for 8. dan Kyoshi


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## fireman00 (Aug 4, 2006)

My first school was VERY lax in letting us know when we'd be tested for our black belt or any other rank - other then telling us we "should be ready".

My new home has a list of requirements (all necessary forms, sparring time, class attendence, required reading, etc) on the wall for each level; we know that we'll have a pre-test sometime in Sept/ Oct with our test 6 months later.


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## TimoS (Aug 4, 2006)

fireman00 said:
			
		

> My first school was VERY lax in letting us know when we'd be tested for our black belt or any other rank - other then telling us we "should be ready".



Although we have quite strict requirements for all the grades, it does sometimes happen that we are just told to attend a test. This happened for example to me and some others in our club. We knew that there was going to be testing that day, but we hadn't even thought about testing ourselves. I was stretching and talking to my buddy when sensei comes over and asks what is our grade in kobudo. When we told that it was 3. kyu he asked us that are we going to test for 2. kyu and when we told him that we hadn't even considered it, he gave us about 10 minutes to prepare ourselves  We did pass


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## Explorer (Aug 5, 2006)

We've developed a curriculuum that includes: time in rank, class attendance, new kata (open hand and weapon), kata interpretation, reading assignments with written report, and seminar attendance (preferably outside our system) with written report.  All facets are judged by a board and rank is awarded via consensus.

We hope this curriculuum will encourage them to be self-regulating and less reliant on being spoon fed techniques and concepts.  We hope to see them formulating their own theories and philosophies; then testing them for effectiveness.


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## twendkata71 (Aug 5, 2006)

*Sounds good. I have a similar curriculum. I also incourage black belt students to learn how to judge in competitions.  If they show interest in judging , then I give them a copy of the rules booklets from different organizations. USANKF, WKF,etc. We go over the material.  *






			
				Explorer said:
			
		

> We've developed a curriculuum that includes: time in rank, class attendance, new kata (open hand and weapon), kata interpretation, reading assignments with written report, and seminar attendance (preferably outside our system) with written report. All facets are judged by a board and rank is awarded via consensus.
> 
> We hope this curriculuum will encourage them to be self-regulating and less reliant on being spoon fed techniques and concepts. We hope to see them formulating their own theories and philosophies; then testing them for effectiveness.


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## pstarr (Aug 5, 2006)

In Yiliquan the curriculum is mapped out to fifth duan (dan) in detail...


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## jacktnicol (Aug 5, 2006)

At My dojang their are basic forms and guidelines but most of the test is picked by the bb testing. THis is because my master believes in personal growth, until black belt you have to do the set stuff but in the bb ranks you are to show what you have take from the art. 
I also i believe the higher you go the more your master/teacher is less of some one to tell you "this is how you have to do" and more someone to bounce ideas off of.

Jack


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## Brandon Fisher (Aug 6, 2006)

I currently have required kata and self defense techniques up to Yondan.  Many on the sheets are repetitive from previous ranks except in the method they are done its the ones I have not put on the sheets that are not so repetitive.  Plus teaching and tournament (competing or judging or both) time is required.  5th Dan they must have come up with new self defense scenarios to confront ever changing needs.


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## searcher (Aug 6, 2006)

In Chito-ryu and Okinawan Kobudo we have everything mapped out to 5th dan.  In TKD we have it mapped out to 4th Dan.   I think that this is where there are generally no "new" techniques or forms to learn.  It is all about your individual progression with what you have already been taught.

With each style there can only be a certain level of guidance.  If you are walked through every little thing you will be a gingerbread man/woman and will not grow as an individual.  JMHO.


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## Cirdan (Aug 7, 2006)

Our curriculum is mapped out to 3. Dan. Above this rank is not tested for but awarded.


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## Grenadier (Aug 7, 2006)

Cirdan said:
			
		

> Our curriculum is mapped out to 3. Dan. Above this rank is not tested for but awarded.


 
That's actually fairly common.  In many systems, the early dan ranks are awarded based on what one is able to take from the system.  From there on, however, it can become more of a matter of what that person brings to the system.


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## Explorer (Aug 9, 2006)

Grenadier said:
			
		

> That's actually fairly common.  In many systems, the early dan ranks are awarded based on what one is able to take from the system.  From there on, however, it can become more of a matter of what that person brings to the system.



We try to prime that pump by requiring the dans to attend seminars outside or our system.


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## TimoS (Aug 9, 2006)

How strict are the requirements for various dan (and also for color belts) grades? I mean, the requirements say that you have to know a, b,c and d, but are all those asked when grading or are just some of them required (e.g. a and d)? Or does it vary? For us, this varies quite a lot. For my shodan test, we were required to demonstrate one oyokumite (formalized sparring patterns) out of six required, maybe 4 or 5 yakusoku kumite (nearest equivalent of ippon kumite in our system) out of 37, one knife defence out of five required and one kata. The same amount of stuff to show was required of the others who were testing for 2. and 4. dan.

For color belts the testing varies from club to club. In some clubs I know that you are required to show everything, while in some those giving the examination just select some techniques they feel are important


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## searcher (Aug 9, 2006)

Explorer said:
			
		

> We try to prime that pump by requiring the dans to attend seminars outside or our system.


 
That is a great approach.   I like it.


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## Haze (Aug 13, 2006)

Curriculum is set to 3rd Dan. Above 3rd Dan is not tested for but awarded.


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## Cirdan (Aug 16, 2006)

Our curriculum for 2. and 3. Dan contains nothing new except more kata (three each). Tough you will of course be expected to improve all you have learned before as well.


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## jujutsu_indonesia (Aug 16, 2006)

Explorer said:
			
		

> Does your system or school have a curiculuum for the Dan ranks?  Everybody has a curriculuum for the kyu ranks ... but many have little direction for advanced students beyond time in rank and classes attended.
> 
> I wonder if this is why the dropout rate at 1st Dan seems so high.



In the Wado section of our Dojo, the shodan requirements is simple. 

Reiho
Ten Chi Jin no Ri principles (written exam, very easy)
Kihon no Tsuki, Keri, Uchi, Uke. 
Kata Pinan Shodan, Nidan, Sandan, Yondan, Godan, Kusanku, Naihanchi, Seishan, Chinto, plus one Kata chosen by the testee.
Kumite:  Yakusoku Kumite, Jiyu Ippon Kumite
Jujutsu Kata: Idori 1-10, Fujin Goshinjutsu 1-10, Gyakunage 1-10, Tantodori 1-10.

For Shodan, you are allowed failure up to 25% of the material.

For Nidan, no failure is allowed.

BTW, I am at lowest brown belt level for about several years now. Never made it to Shodan..yet. I know most of the material but never tested for it. My attendance are poor, and I haven't been training for 3 months now


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## chinto (May 22, 2007)

Explorer said:


> Does your system or school have a curiculuum for the Dan ranks? Everybody has a curriculuum for the kyu ranks ... but many have little direction for advanced students beyond time in rank and classes attended.
> 
> I wonder if this is why the dropout rate at 1st Dan seems so high.


 

No not really, as all the empty hand kata are part of the testing for shodan ho. 

so basicly you go back to the begaining and start over. we teach kobujitsu as part of the system and dan ranks often are learning the weapons kata that they have not learned before shodan ho. but, kyu ranks also learn weapons so depending on what you learned before changes what you may be getting given new at dan level. you are expected to assist in teaching and other dutys from brown belt on.


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## Victor Smith (May 23, 2007)

I don't find Dan learning a fixed goal, instead work to engage the Dan student in the larger range of studies that their Kyu trianing prepared them to enter.

The first step is a 6 month course on a partial understanding of the use of Seisan' Kata's opening section, as an answer for every sort of attack possible.  Not just the way to use the movements but a study of the underlying principles behind those choices, and working from basic attacks to higher level attack counters.

At that point the fun begins. Our average minimum time an adult Dan trains with us over the past 23 years is about 16 years. The senior Dan's have been in the program the entire time.

As individual learning potential is the rule, the method of advancement is controlled by each Dan's focus and efforts.

There are a number of components to our Dan studies.

1. The study of application potential of our Kata.  One of my instructors shared 800 ways to use our 8 Isshinryu kata, and that is only one answer. The focus is never on numbers, but how to take the underlying principles and learn how they work with any technique.  The study is individualized into each Dan's core choices for rational self defense, and as their studies progress they add new material to their core and deduct material at the same time to keep their studies fresh.

2. The study of Kobudo Isshinryu Bo, Sai, Tonfa, Bando Staff and Stick, a private Family tradition of kama and knife (the last two only for the seniors).  On the whole the use is not for weapons for self defense, but rather learning how the weapons skills add additional oomph into the empty hand utilization of karate technique. This is a decades long training program first aquire skill, then to develop power and speed with that skill, and then to learn how to shift that into kata application study.

3. A very focused study of kata from outside systems. These forms are from Shorin, Shotokan, Tomari, Goju, Ching Wu, Tai Tong Long, Ying Jow Pai, Sil Lum and Pai Lum systems. Not for their application potential, but to use as a technique base to defend  against. These kata also work a different range than our core Isshinryu and in turn make the Dan's abilities somewhat different from many assume Isshinryu might use.

4. Additional focused studies from aikido, siliat and tai chi chaun.  These include various force multipliers for advanced practice (ie. energy point alignment or the knee release in practice).

5. A few individuals will undergo separate apprenticeship training to become an instructor, in addition to their other stuides the first requirement is 15 continious years training with the same instructors. This is an entirely different track of study.  No one who hasn't followed that track will be an instructor.

6. Upon acquisition of some knowledge and skill, the Dan might enter the ongoing research study behind our arts potential.

While there are some signposts (Dan Grades) along the way they are a composite of various factors of the indvidiuals training. As a group they never refer to dan grades and only prefer to train.

If the Dan is engaged in the fuller study of their art, they will find a way to keep training.  The only mitigating factors have been individuals who have moved away because of working needs, or those in their 60's who personally feel they have reached an age where other interests beckon..

The entire purpose of a Kyu program ought to be to prepare indivduals to begin training for life as a Dan.

Of course young persons training is to prepare them to move out and on with their lives, their own life far more interesting than keeping training in their home town.

For the adult, the reasons become different.

pleasantly,

victor smith
 bushi no te isshinryu


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## bushidomartialarts (May 23, 2007)

Our organization has objective requirements through 9th dan.  We don't award 10th dan.

In terms of curriculum, we have very few specific requirements, rather encouraging personal exploration.  It's more of a 1 from column A and 2 from column B kind of approach.

The columns include kata, technique, cross training, education, healing and personal exploration, as well as time in rank.


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## chinto (May 24, 2007)

Of course our dan ranked people like sensei himself all continue to train and work on technique and principles and bunkai for the kata in the system, as well as weapons. but there is not a set of curiculam like there is for the kyu ranks. 






Victor Smith said:


> I don't find Dan learning a fixed goal, instead work to engage the Dan student in the larger range of studies that their Kyu trianing prepared them to enter.
> 
> The first step is a 6 month course on a partial understanding of the use of Seisan' Kata's opening section, as an answer for every sort of attack possible. Not just the way to use the movements but a study of the underlying principles behind those choices, and working from basic attacks to higher level attack counters.
> 
> ...


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## stone_dragone (May 24, 2007)

Cut directly from our manual.  No real set curriculum, but a guide for future training.  These requirements are on top of time in grade requirements. 



stone_dragone said:


> *Requirements for Promotion Past Shodan*
> 
> Once a student is promoted to Shodan, it is the equivalent of a High School diploma within the martial arts. It is after a student earns their black belt that their training in the martial arts is said to truly begin. Martial education after Shodan is similar to college courses in that more of the requirements for promotion are directly affected by the students studies outside of the dojo as well as the continued practice and improvement.
> 
> ...


 Each of the credit levels start new after promotion (i.e. you need 215 credits for nidan and an additional 250 for sandan).


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## chinto (May 25, 2007)

stone_dragone said:


> Cut directly from our manual. No real set curriculum, but a guide for future training. These requirements are on top of time in grade requirements.
> 
> Each of the credit levels start new after promotion (i.e. you need 215 credits for nidan and an additional 250 for sandan).


 

what the hell constitutes a credit though?


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## stone_dragone (May 25, 2007)

chinto said:


> what the hell constitutes a credit though?


 
The credit system is similar to the college credit system.  Each of the listed activities is worth a certain amount of "promotion points" or credits toward black belt education and development.  

The system is designed to reward those who go above and beyond in their martial path as opposed to those who just show up for practice and try to maintain status quo.

In theory, a shodan who only shows up and takes class for two years, does no outside study (academic or physical) and doesn't teach...in other words does nothing to develop themselves...won't get promoted to nidan based soley on his time in grade.

The instructor should maintain a file and keep track of the student's martial studies so that the teacher can guide his protoge's while allowing for initiative and personal growth.


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## Bill Sempf (May 25, 2007)

In Hoshinjutsu, Dr. Morris based part of his shodan rankings on the promotion of the candidate's students.  The premise is that to truly know, you should be able to teach.  It's up for discussion, but I think it is a very cool concept.

S


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## IWishToLearn (May 25, 2007)

I have a rather extensive curriculum mapped out thru 6th black right now. I have some ideas for specifics for 7th, but 8th-10th are pretty much universally considered honorary or time-in-grade administrative promotions anywho.


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## Nobody (May 25, 2007)

Well lets see if i understand,  the ranks past second right cause the place i trained at all had strong teaching an Curriculuum for up to second dan.

http://www.shitokai.com/syllabus.php
Maybe this will help some but i don't like how some schools try to pigeon hole your thinking process after second dan. My thoughts is that this is when the student like in Chinese Martial Arts they for the first 10 years are taught many different ideas an ways to approach thing an left to develop their own training practices in the more traditional school of Chinese Martial Art like i attended this is what happened at least. 
Maybe i should explain. In Karate to get to the Black Belt it takes 5-6 years in philosophy the little idea(focus on very specific training), in Chinese Martial Arts they spend 10 years to get to the black belt in philosophies called large idea(huge over view of all martial arts).  So what i am saying is at this time the student should be allowed to develop things he finds interesting from other style schools an system of thought in my view.  What i am saying is that after second dan the student of Karate needs to start expanding his overall understanding.  The Chinese system after his 10 years of basic study needs to more specific study like that is done in karate take what he has spent ten years learning to do that need definition.  Philosophies is that called big idea/little idea for Chinese Martial Arts and the Karate philosophies is little idea/big idea.  

I am not saying that there should be no curriculum just that the student if in it for life at this point needs to learn that in karate they should develop there own method for the next 10 years instead of following someone way.

Excuse, my going of topic.  My personal opinion.


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