# Billions wasted in Iraq



## Bill Mattocks (Aug 30, 2010)

http://www.military.com/news/article/us-wasted-billions-in-rebuilding-iraq.html?ESRC=topstories.RSS



> *US Wasted Billions in Rebuilding Iraq*
> 
> August 30, 2010
> Associated Press
> ...



Hey, why not?  We spend taxpayer money just as profligately in the USA, why not throw it away in Iraq too?


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## Bruno@MT (Aug 30, 2010)

Bill Mattocks said:


> http://www.military.com/news/article/us-wasted-billions-in-rebuilding-iraq.html?ESRC=topstories.RSS
> 
> 
> 
> Hey, why not?  We spend taxpayer money just as profligately in the USA, why not throw it away in Iraq too?



It is now a de-facto 51st state so it deserves US tax dollars. No taxation without representation or something like that  (just kidding)


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## crushing (Aug 30, 2010)

Bruno@MT said:


> It is now a de-facto 51st state so it deserves US tax dollars. No taxation without representation or something like that  (just kidding)


 
Actually, I think it would be the 58th.







My apologies Bill, I don't have much to add to what you already said.


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## Empty Hands (Aug 30, 2010)

According to the CBO, the war in both nations will cost $2.4 trillion by 2017, with 1.9 of that spent in Iraq.  Your point is sound and money should not be wasted, but $5 billion in failed projects amounts to 0.26% of the total cost.  Hey, at least they wasted money trying to build something to make things better instead of wasting money to make things worse.


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## Ken Morgan (Aug 30, 2010)

Sorry Bill, you are incorrect. 
Very little comes from the US taxpayer. 
As the vast majority of the money spent is debt, it will come from your children, your grandchildren, your great grandchildren, and probably a few generations past that not yet born.


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## Bill Mattocks (Aug 30, 2010)

Ken Morgan said:


> Sorry Bill, you are incorrect.
> Very little comes from the US taxpayer.
> As the vast majority of the money spent is debt, it will come from your children, your grandchildren, your great grandchildren, and probably a few generations past that not yet born.



Good point - deficit spending.  However, it will come from SOME US taxpayer, even if not me personally.  Maybe I shouldn't mind.  After all, my wife and I have no children.  What happens to the rest of ya'll children is not my problem.  Hmmm.


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## Deaf Smith (Aug 30, 2010)

Bill,

Unfortunately we have to deal with other governments to get money to help those in ANY country.

Name one country that does not rip us off?

We have aid to Israel (and some if it gets ripped off), any third world country in Africa or South America (and they rip off a lot!) Caribbean Islands (honesty is a joke in the Caribbean!) And Asia? Ha! From Vietnam to Cambodia to Burma to Pakistan to India And dont forget Eastern Europe. From Azerbaijan to Belarus to Georgia to Kyrgyzstan... they all rip us off!!

Sure I have no doubt money sent to Iraq has been stolen Its done everywhere we send money! 

The only way to not have our money subject to pilfering is to not give it, period.

Deaf


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## WC_lun (Aug 31, 2010)

There hasn't been a lot of oversight in Iraq.  There have been lots of stories coming out of Iraq of money being wasted, misaproproated, and just plain stolen from players as varied as Iraqi government officials to US contractors.  It seems common sense that if you are going to send tons of money somewhere, you put someone in charge of seeing that money is going where you want it.  We didn't use much common sense when it comes to Iraq though.


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## Tez3 (Aug 31, 2010)

Deaf Smith said:


> Bill,
> 
> Unfortunately we have to deal with other governments to get money to help those in ANY country.
> 
> ...


 

And here's a lesson in how to insult as many people as possible.

 You think all West Indians then are dishonest? All 47,000 people on St Kitts and Nevis? Or is it the Bahamians? the St Lucians? the Trindadians?


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## elder999 (Aug 31, 2010)

Tez3 said:


> And here's a lesson in how to insult as many people as possible.
> 
> You think all West Indians then are dishonest? All 47,000 people on St Kitts and Nevis? Or is it the Bahamians? the St Lucians? the Trindadians?


 

Oh, honey-_hush!_ :lol:


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## Empty Hands (Aug 31, 2010)

Tez3 said:


> And here's a lesson in how to insult as many people as possible.
> 
> You think all West Indians then are dishonest? All 47,000 people on St Kitts and Nevis? Or is it the Bahamians? the St Lucians? the Trindadians?



But don't you dare call them a bigot!  That makes _you _the bigot!


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## crushing (Aug 31, 2010)

elder999 said:


> Oh, honey-_hush!_ :lol:


 
Took me a moment to see the t-shirt as I was distracted by the combination of a moustache and hair bun.


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## zDom (Aug 31, 2010)

I think it's a buncha crap.

We should exact repayment. In oil. We'll never get our investment back in gratitude or goodwill.


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## WC_lun (Aug 31, 2010)

ROFL  Yeah, I mean they have some real nerve, getting invaded by us and not being grateful for it!  Since they haven't shown enough gratitude we should take thier oil!! ...and people wonder why we have a bad reputation among many around the world.


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## Tez3 (Aug 31, 2010)

I believe a lot of American companies however have done very well out of Iraq. it was supposed to be a fair handout of contracts but funnily enough nearly all the companies who got the contracts are American. We got some sub contracts, hell we didn't go to war to make a loss, we want profit! :uhohh: 

As the war was about oil I can't see why anyone would think the Iraqis would be grateful, things are worse now for them than they were under Saddam!


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## FieldDiscipline (Aug 31, 2010)

Tez3 said:


> I believe a lot of American companies however have done very well out of Iraq.



Not alone either.  Possibly.


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## Deaf Smith (Aug 31, 2010)

Tez3 said:


> And here's a lesson in how to insult as many people as possible.
> 
> You think all West Indians then are dishonest? All 47,000 people on St Kitts and Nevis? Or is it the Bahamians? the St Lucians? the Trindadians?


 
It's called governments Tez, _governments_. *THEY* take the money and not much gets to where it is supposed to.

Now if insulting a government makes me a bigot, well so be it.

Deaf


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## Tez3 (Sep 1, 2010)

Deaf Smith said:


> It's called governments Tez, _governments_. *THEY* take the money and not much gets to where it is supposed to.
> 
> Now if insulting a government makes me a bigot, well so be it.
> 
> Deaf


 
I never said anything about bigots, try looking somewhere else for that. 

You didn't say governments at all.

So America is 'supporting the West Indies now is it and Her Majesty's Govenments there are ripping you off. How interesting, why don't you write and tell her?


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## elder999 (Sep 1, 2010)

Tez3 said:


> I never said anything about bigots, try looking somewhere else for that.
> 
> You didn't say governments at all.
> 
> So America is 'supporting the West Indies now is it and Her Majesty's Govenments there are ripping you off. How interesting, why don't you write and tell her?


 

U.S. aid to Jamaica,2006-11, $21 million.

You can find U.S. aid for the same period for every country in Latin America and the Caribbean, here


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## WC_lun (Sep 1, 2010)

Tez3 said:


> I believe a lot of American companies however have done very well out of Iraq. it was supposed to be a fair handout of contracts but funnily enough nearly all the companies who got the contracts are American. We got some sub contracts, hell we didn't go to war to make a loss, we want profit! :uhohh:
> 
> As the war was about oil I can't see why anyone would think the Iraqis would be grateful, things are worse now for them than they were under Saddam!


 

Many of the contracts were no bid contracts also.  Even though that isn't supposed to be how they contracts with the Pentagon are to be given.  Add to that several of the companies had been charged with ripping the government off on prior contracts and were _supposed _to be banned from recieving any further contracts from the Pentagon for a period of time.  Didn't work out that way.

in short, they gave no bid contracts with no oversight to companies that had stolen from them before.  Gee, big suprise billions were lost, huh?


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## MA-Caver (Sep 1, 2010)

I see trees of green, red roses too
I see them bloom for me and you
And I think to myself what a wonderful world.

I see skies of blue and clouds of white
The bright blessed day, the dark sacred night
And I think to myself what a wonderful world.

The colors of the rainbow so pretty in the sky
Are also on the faces of people going by
I see friends shaking hands saying how do you do
They're really saying I love you.

I hear babies crying, I watch them grow
They'll learn much more than I'll never know
And I think to myself what a wonderful world
Yes I think to myself what a wonderful world.    

(apologies to Mr. Armstrong for I'm sure it's not what he intended the song to be... sarcasm in it's thickest)...


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## Tez3 (Sep 1, 2010)

elder999 said:


> U.S. aid to Jamaica,2006-11, $21 million.
> 
> You can find U.S. aid for the same period for every country in Latin America and the Caribbean, here


 
I wasn't saying they weren't getting aid, it was the fact that all West Indians among others were being accused of being dishonest that annoyed me. Dangerous it is, to make generalisations.


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## zDom (Sep 2, 2010)

WC_lun said:


> ROFL  Yeah, I mean they have some real nerve, getting invaded by us and not being grateful for it!  Since they haven't shown enough gratitude we should take thier oil!! ...and people wonder why we have a bad reputation among many around the world.



It wasn't so long ago that wars ended with the winner taking the spoils. Not so long before that the victorious country took slaves, as well.

Does anybody recall who started this whole benevolent conqueror trend?

It was US, the U.S., who started it.

So all those people who don't like us around the world can **** off for all I care.

Personally, I think we should bring back imperialism. They will never like us. Few will respect us. We should make them fear us and thank their gods that we don't crush them underfoot.

How ya like them apples?


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## zDom (Sep 2, 2010)

Tez3 said:


> I believe a lot of American companies however have done very well out of Iraq.



I don't approve of these power broker robber barons making obscene profits while the taxpayers pay for the war.

This, too, is a load of crap.

I don't blame "the world" if they hate our government. I don't much care for how they are acting either for the last 50 years or so.

But if they want to hate Americans, **** 'em. Their leaders are all as much crooks as ours are.


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## Tez3 (Sep 2, 2010)

zDom said:


> It wasn't so long ago that wars ended with the winner taking the spoils. Not so long before that the victorious country took slaves, as well.
> 
> Does anybody recall who started this whole benevolent conqueror trend?
> 
> ...


 
Been there, seen it, done it, got the t shirt. 

At least all the empires before were honest about why they invaded, they never said it was for the invaded country's own good! 
It's too Monty Pythonish, 'we are invading you to liberate you from your government/leaders that we don't like, we've sold them loads of arms which we know they'll use against us but as we aren't friends anymore and the President needs a good press, we'll invade you and make things really lousy for you, that'll teach you to be our friends won't it!'


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## Empty Hands (Sep 2, 2010)

Tez3 said:


> At least all the empires before were honest about why they invaded, they never said it was for the invaded country's own good!



Sure they did.  The Spaniards were going to bring the Light of God to the ignorant heathens.  The British were going to bring civilization.  The Americans were going to bring freedom.  Etc, etc, etc.  Look to Kipling's "White Man's Burden" for an example.


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## Tez3 (Sep 2, 2010)

Empty Hands said:


> Sure they did. The Spaniards were going to bring the Light of God to the ignorant heathens. The British were going to bring civilization. The Americans were going to bring freedom. Etc, etc, etc. Look to Kipling's "White Man's Burden" for an example.


 

Yeah that was Kipling the spin doctor who bitterly regretted his words after his son was killed in the First World War. Britain knew it was invading for profits, land and power, any 'civilising' was considered a by product not the purpose of empire building.


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## Ken Morgan (Sep 2, 2010)

Tez3 said:


> Been there, seen it, done it, got the t shirt.
> 
> At least all the empires before were honest about why they invaded, they never said it was for the invaded country's own good!
> It's too Monty Pythonish, 'we are invading you to liberate you from your government/leaders that we don't like, we've sold them loads of arms which we know they'll use against us but as we aren't friends anymore and the President needs a good press, we'll invade you and make things really lousy for you, that'll teach you to be our friends won't it!'


 
Well..."What have the Romans ever done for us?"


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## Tez3 (Sep 3, 2010)

Ken Morgan said:


> Well..."What have the Romans ever done for us?"


 

Exactly!

The British Empire only 'civilised' the natives to make it easier to control, rip off and generally manage the Empire. I wonder what things would be like now if America hadn't rebelled lol! :uhyeah:


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## WC_lun (Sep 3, 2010)

If you are looking for a country or region to be thankful that they got invaded, you are seriously delusional.  Turn it around.  What if China invaded the US for our "own good" or to give us "freedom."  Even if we had some insane Hitleresque president that action would be greeted by the bussiness end of a gun with many of you holding the other end.  By what reason should the reactions of a person in a country we invaded be any different?  Because we are the US and have been shown to be so benevolant?  Horse apples.


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## zDom (Sep 3, 2010)

WC_lun said:


> If you are looking for a country or region to be thankful that they got invaded, you are seriously delusional.  Turn it around.  What if China invaded the US for our "own good" or to give us "freedom."  Even if we had some insane Hitleresque president that action would be greeted by the bussiness end of a gun with many of you holding the other end.  By what reason should the reactions of a person in a country we invaded be any different?  Because we are the US and have been shown to be so benevolant?  Horse apples.




I guess it would depend on if I was part of the oppressive majority (ethnic or religious, take yer pic) or one of the minority factions living in fear of my government.


I just wish Missouri would get invaded by the United States. We sure could use the hospitals, roads, bridges, etc. etc. etc. that are getting built with taxpayer money.


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## zDom (Sep 3, 2010)

zDom said:


> I just wish Missouri would get invaded by the United States. We sure could use the hospitals, roads, bridges, etc. etc. etc. that are getting built with taxpayer money.



BTW.. that was just rhetoric.  Seeing as we Missourians have voted to reject Obamacare, this may be much more likely than you would think


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## WC_lun (Sep 3, 2010)

zDom said:


> BTW.. that was just rhetoric. Seeing as we Missourians have voted to reject Obamacare, this may be much more likely than you would think


 

Considering that I'm in need of a life saving transplant that I can't get because I can't pay for it and can't get insurance to pay for it because I've had a transplant previously, I'll welcome Obamacare, if I live long enough to see it to fruitition.  I know, that makes me an evil leftist socialist.


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## zDom (Sep 7, 2010)

WC_lun said:


> Considering that I'm in need of a life saving transplant that I can't get because I can't pay for it and can't get insurance to pay for it because I've had a transplant previously, I'll welcome Obamacare, if I live long enough to see it to fruitition.  I know, that makes me an evil leftist socialist.



I sincerely hope it works out for you. I think socialized medicine might actually work if we weren't paying for insurance companies and lottery-win lawsuits.


I've got nothing against folk who need medical coverage getting treated. I just don't want to go to jail because I am unable to afford to buy insurance.


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