# First weapons



## Lilyth (Nov 23, 2008)

Just curious what others might think.  Of escrima sticks, swords, bo staff and nunchucks...what would make the best first weapon to train on for someone who's of small stature?

Best wishes,
Lilyth


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## Carol (Nov 23, 2008)

Lilyth said:


> Just curious what others might think.  Of escrima sticks, swords, bo staff and nunchucks...what would make the best first weapon to train on for someone who's of small stature?
> 
> Best wishes,
> Lilyth



For a first weapon, it can be advantageous to play to an instructor's strength.  The best to learn may be the one the instructor is best at teaching.  A smaller person can learn all of them. 

When learning stickwork, there can be an advantage to learning with a person that is closer to your size.  But...that's not to say it can't be done if your partner is a different size (I'm 5' 2").  Sword work can be a bit of a challenge with shorter arms but it can be done.  The challenge will be most felt in the drawing and sheathing of the sword as these tend to be the most difficult actions for a beginner (of any size).  Same with the bo...it may seem like a challenge maneuvering a stick that is as tall as you are but I don't think it is significantly easier for a taller person that doesn't have experience with the staff.  Of the four, nunchaku probably have the steepest learning curve, regardless of the size of the person. It can be a tricky weapon to get used to.  

Personally I prefer sticks out of the four listed, but I train in a system that has a good bit of stickwork so I'm a bit biased.


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## hpulley (Nov 23, 2008)

At the dojo where I train they teach escrima, kobudo, jodo, iaido, kendo, etc. all in one weapons class. Beginners start with a single escrima stick and bo which seems to be a good introduction.  Both are good for both techniques and for strength and flexibility training of the wrist, arm and shoulder.

Escrima sticks are short so no one should have a problem though some of the defenses and take-aways take some improvisation if there is a large height difference.  Applies to real life too of course!

Even the bo actually has at least two standard lengths (could be more), the Okinawan rokushakubo or 6' and the Japanese goshakubo or 5' since the Japanese were shorter in stature.  If you are short you might use the 5' bo instead of the 6' version though some big guys at my dojo use the 5' bo as their jo...  I use the 6' bo and 4' jo.

For swords you also have a choice and in fact when you stand and hold the bokken or iato relaxed in your right hand with your index finger at the tsuba there should be about an inch before the tip hits the floor or your little toe.  You can generally buy 41" and 22" bokken but you can get custom ones made or you could move the tsuba up from its usual position or alternatively saw the tip off the 41" to make it the right length.  Depending on your height, inseam, reach and even personal preference a different length is needed for almost everyone.  For instance a 2.45 shaku blade is generally recommended for my height but I find that one a bit shorter (2.3 or even shorter) works better though they say you usually want a longer blade as you get better.  It is bad to hit the floor when you are cutting, of course a good way to damage a real blade.


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## theletch1 (Nov 23, 2008)

The bo staff should be tailored to the size of the person using it.  Someone 5'2'' (same height as my wife) could even use a jo staff for a start.  It's a simple weapon that has a ton of uses and can really give you the "feel" of making a weapon an extension of your body fairly easily.  The sticks are great as well but dealing with two weapons at once is a bit tougher on a beginner than a single bo/jo staff.  The sword is great but not for a student who is just learning the basics of a martial art.  If the art is sword based, like aikido, however, then a bit of rudimentary sword work could be in order just to show how the movement of the aikido technique mimics the sword technique.  The nunchuku basics are fun for the beginner but can often be frustrating as you learn to deal with the recoil of the flail as it strikes a target.  If you're just gonna learn the "chucks" for demo purposes that's not a problem but to use it as a true weapon will require dealing with the "bounce back" of a strike.  

To condence my ramblings to something coherent:
1) Bo or Jo staff
2) Escrima sticks
3) Nunchuku
4) Sword
Just my opinions and your mileage will vary depending on the student.


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## tshadowchaser (Nov 23, 2008)

the bo or sticks may be the easiest to start with.  The sword is ok if your instructor  has a firm knowledge of the weapon and is willing to teach it


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## stickarts (Nov 23, 2008)

Sticks are great. Practical, and everything learned can be applied emptyhand.


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## Lilyth (Nov 23, 2008)

Thanks for the input!  I wanted to try swords, but might have to rethink that one.  Decisions, decisions...

Best wishes,
Lilyth


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## stickarts (Nov 23, 2008)

Lilyth said:


> Thanks for the input! I wanted to try swords, but might have to rethink that one. Decisions, decisions...
> 
> Best wishes,
> Lilyth


 
Many things you learn with sticks can then be applied as blade!  Swords are fun too though! The main thing is to learn and enjoy.


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## Tez3 (Nov 23, 2008)

Tonfas are a pain if you are a small female! Unless I can find a shorter pair this weapon is out for me. I like Sai though and the Bo ( a light bamboo one that is 'whippy') The Bokken is very good too. Swords are wonderful!!


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## Whitebelt (Nov 23, 2008)

I've always thought staffs are the best to start off with because of the stance work that comes with them, the forearm conditioning they bring and the advantages to basic handwork that can be got from it.


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## jks9199 (Nov 23, 2008)

It depends on your style.  For many styles, a long stick/bo will help you focus on your stances and body dynamics more than many other weapons -- with errors being less catastropic than with, say, a sword.

Short sticks are another great weapon to learn early, because many styles can adapt and transfer principles from empty hand to stick to knife/sword.

The best guide for which weapon to start with is your instructor, because they know your particular training needs.  I may start one student with a long stick to make them focus on moving their hands together and their stances, while I may start another with a short stick to emphasize a different element of movement -- or because they're a cop or security guard and short stick equals baton, so the skills are very applicable to their job.


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## Perpetual White Belt (Nov 27, 2008)

Personally I'd go with either sticks or bo first.  Those weapons' sizes can (and should) be adapted to body size.  The traditional Okinawan bo is rokushakubo or a six shaku staff.  The measure of a shaku is the length from your wrist to your elbow.  The average is 6 foot, but in my case I use a 6'6" bo my wife's would be 5'.  Some styles of swordsmanship keep the blade outside of the scabbard for the most part, so that may be an option.  As far as nunchaku, my opinion on that is throw 'em in the corner only pick 'em up if you're really bored.


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## terryl965 (Nov 27, 2008)

A gun for personal protection of course


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## MA-Caver (Nov 27, 2008)

If you're really are a beginner then I suggest... 

This.... :uhyeah:


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## SA_BJJ (Nov 27, 2008)

Bo or chucks should do the trick, but it really doesnt matter.


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## Jimi (Nov 28, 2008)

If you are involved in a traditional art that teaches weapons (Kobudo Okinawan weapons- not ninja turtle/XMA stuff but actual weapons training) it is traditional to start with stick weapons such as Tonfa or Bo Staff. Other weapons like stick work from FMA are great as well,  but if you train a traditional Okinawan or Japanese art, the Tonfa will turn even a person of small size into a bone gnasher, LOL. Take Pinon 2 for example- the first few moves to either side break arms & crack ribs, other forms with-in traditional Kobudo for Tonfa when taught correctly can teach how the tonfa can crush an empty handed opponent or help get beyond an opponents weapon. Take any hard style form and put Tonfa in the practitioners hands & the power of that form increases (Provided the Instructor teaches well.) When I learned from my first Instructor Sensei Randy Wozin, we started with Tonfa & Bo (A pair of weapons & a single long weapons for both hands to control) before progressing to Nunchaku, then Sai and finally Kama (The only Bladed weapon we were allowed to train because the Katana was not in our art -Kendo/Kenjutu- to its true level of skill, knowledge,) Although we trained all these weapons VS. a shinai similuating basic sword attacks, we never claimed swordsmanship. Tonfa are not as easy to keep on you, but if you have traditional skills/training it fits like a glove. On the other hand, FMA stick work is great stuff and you can find more weapons at hand in a self defense situation that these skill can translate to. A person well trained in FMA and carring an asp baton can turn the tide of most common self defense situations. The common thread I have seen in most arts is, body weapon skills first, stick or blunt weapons next & finally specific bladed weapons depending on the art. ( not counting projectile weaopns, throwing knives, bow & arrow, blow gun LOL. firearms etc...) If you want to train weapons, find what good instruction that is available to you, it is better to train well for what you have access to, than to PLAY weapons/swords with an instructor who is not really qualified to teach any weapon. Watch out for the certified Commercial MA school guy who is not certified in a true weapons art but professes to teach Nunchaku, Sai, Kama etc... not in his system or art but has the videos to show where he learned it. LOL. I would go for the FMA, you will get a good base in weaopns & empty hand quickly provided the instructor is quaility. Just my opinion.


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## Masshiro (May 5, 2009)

the weapon you choose doesnt matter, all you need to remember is to become familure with that weapon. the weapon needs to become apart of yourself. you should train everyday with that weapon for atleast a half hour a day. wooden weapons can be made to size easaly, and you have a wide variety of swords to choose from. both tonfa a sai should be ordered by a specialty place that can custome make them for you.


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## kaizasosei (May 5, 2009)

I would reccomend practicing with nunchaku.  Great for control as well as focusing power.  Sword is unique because you are dealing with cuting or stabbing.  Stick is very universal as well as a powerful weapon.  Sai are good for the wrists and lower arms too as sword also can be.
Depends on what you are most inspired by and how much time you wish to spend.   

Nunchaku i think however, not being the most practical weapon as a weapon is probably the most rewarding for training.  Flexible weapons like nunchaku,  chains, weigted ropes are probably the most challenging weapons.
I have trained much with all these weapons.  Things like kama and two sworded techniques, escrima came much later in my training, however, from the experience with sai, and improvised double weapon training i was able to quickly figure out a great deal just by messing around.  i have become quite fond of the feel of the kama slashing through the air.



j


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## Langenschwert (May 5, 2009)

I would recommend either staff or sword for a beginner. These are central weapons in martial arts the world over. The techniques learned in either of those weapons translate really quickly to other weapons. If you study (for example) longsword, then you are already laying a solid foundation for learning staff and vice-versa.

Have a read of this article by John Clements on the place of the longsword in Renaissance Martial Arts: http://www.thearma.org/essays/Longsword_Centrality_in_RMA.htm You get the idea. Most WMA groups start everyone off with longsword, assuming their focus is on the medieval to early Renaissance periods. Other groups (such as AEMMA in Toronto) focus beginners on single-handed sword, as they hold that it makes for a more cautious, technically refined swordsman. I tend to favour the longsword approach, but I see their point. As a matter of fact, I started training in messer (a Germanic falchion) to improve my fencing over all, taking AEMMA's opinion as worth exploring.

That being said, the other factors are: 1) what your instructor is good at and can articulate in a clear pedagogically-oriented manner, and 2) what you really WANT to learn. Face it, if you're learning a weapon you think is really cool, you'll train more.

Another thing to consider is that we no longer have the time to train for HOURS every day like the warrior classes of old did. I would advise specializing in one weapon as your "thing". Then have a solid secondary. Everything else should be on the sidelines in whatever proportion you think is right for you.

Good luck in your training!

Best regards,

-Mark


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## Daniel Sullivan (May 5, 2009)

Lilyth said:


> Just curious what others might think. Of escrima sticks, swords, bo staff and nunchucks...what would make the best first weapon to train on for someone who's of small stature?
> 
> Best wishes,
> Lilyth


Swords.  No question, hands down, swords.  Drawing techniques not withstanding, everything that you learn with a sword can be applied to sticks.  Swords are nice in that you are not limited in terms of sparring vs. kata and technique.  You can do anything from iaito to kenjutsu to kendo to western fencing and more.  

Having said that, any of the ones you listed are worth learning.  But if I had to pick one, I feel that the sword is the best for a beginner.  Its techniques and physical characteristics can to greater or lesser extents be applied both escrima sticks and to the bo and particularly the jo (you did not mention it, but it is a short staff), cane, or plain old walking stick.  You can branch out from there to any of the others.

Nunchucku are cool and visually impressive, but the techniques do not cross over to the others as readily.

Daniel


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## Langenschwert (May 5, 2009)

Just another reason to learn swordsmanship, while I'm at it: When fighting with swords, one has to learn above all how NOT TO GET HIT. Assuming that the combatants are unarmoured, even relatively light sword blows can incapacitate a person, or at the very least stun him enough to give his opponent enough time to finish him. Thus to learn swordsmanship to a high level requires BY DEFAULT a precision that is seldom necessary unarmed arts. In unarmed combat, one can take a punch to close to grappling or whatever. In swordsmanship, there is no such wiggle room. If you get hit, you're likely dead. As deadly as stick combat is, sword combat ups the ante quite a bit.

Another thing to remember that is often forgotten: The basis of swordsmanship is grappling. The tactile sensitivity required of a good swordsman is derived from wrestling. Be aware of how to weave one's grappling skill into the weapon art. In German swordsmanship (for example), grappling is crucial to the sword art as a whole: 



 
Anywho, just some more thoughts.

Best regards,

-Mark


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## David43515 (Jun 4, 2009)

I love Arnis and Esrima, but I would suggest the staff as a first weapon. Staff work teaches you to use both hands simultaniously, improves your stances and helps you understand the paths that the weapon moves in easier than other weapons. (ie: learning the movments in a staff`s big circles and then shrinking them down is easier than learning a knife`s small circles and trying to expand them outward) Plus, just like your escrima stick training, all your staff work is applicable to empty hand work.

         Plus, good staff work is the basis of all other long weapon work. If you know staff, you know 70% of spear work or 80% of trident or halbred work.


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## clfsean (Jun 4, 2009)

What ever your teacher says you need to start with, that's what you start with.

To the spear & halberd comment, definately so if the staff is a single ended staff (rat tail). The single & double ended staffs are similar but the dynamics & many of the techniques are different.


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## 7starmarc (Jun 4, 2009)

Is this for a beginner in martial arts, or for an experienced empty hand practitioner who's now interested in weapons?

If they are experienced, is there a weapon, or weapon group which is associated with their root style?

Overall, I like the staff weapons to start, they tend to emphasize connection throughout the body. Also, the length makes it easier to see errors and visualize correct movements (like starting with larger body movements and making them tighter as you get better).


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