# MMA question..............!!!



## jkd friend (Jul 29, 2008)

I am a fan of all fighting arenas with a question of the brutality in mma. It seems as though the technical aspect of a single persons fighting ability is not there, I once heard if you can hit and take a hit thats all you need with a little Know how as far as the ground game is concerned. So is it just a battle of force or a battle of an individual performance in knowledge and ability in combat!:asian:


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## Tez3 (Jul 29, 2008)

jkd friend said:


> I am a fan of all fighting arenas with a question of the brutality in mma. It seems as though the technical aspect of a single persons fighting ability is not there, I once heard if you can hit and take a hit thats all you need with a little Know how as far as the ground game is concerned. So is it just a battle of force or a battle of an individual performance in knowledge and ability in combat!:asian:


 
If you think that then you are, sadly, missing the point of MMA. I think this is a deliberate attempt to flame I'm afraid.


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## Xue Sheng (Jul 29, 2008)

I am not a MMA guy I am a TCMA guy and I see a lot of skill in an MMA ring. However I do agree with Tez3 that to come into the MMA section and post this 



jkd friend said:


> I am a fan of all fighting arenas with a question of the brutality in mma. It seems as though the technical aspect of a single persons fighting ability is not there, I once heard if you can hit and take a hit thats all you need with a little Know how as far as the ground game is concerned. So is it just a battle of force or a battle of an individual performance in knowledge and ability in combat!



It is very likely a deliberate flame attempt and frankly I have had enough of the TMA vs MMA garbage.

But to answer part of your question, if you cannot take a punch or a kick in ANY fighting sport, be it MMA, Sanshou, Karate, TKD, BJJ, Boxing or even Judo. You will not last long. If you cannot defend yourself against those that are trying to hit you &#8220;HARD&#8221; again you will not last long. And in MMA if you do not know how to take someone down and hold them there you are only at half your game and again you will not last long.

MMA in many cases is a combination of Muay Thai and BJJ but it is by definition made up of multiple MA styles and many real MMA people use whatever works to give them an advantage in the ring. This even extends to things like Qigong that one MMA fighter I once talked to told me he trained to help him stay calm and focus better in the ring.


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## Nolerama (Jul 29, 2008)

That's kind of ironic coming from a JKD person. Some schools of thought think that MMA is simply an evolution of JKD. I think MMA is about performance and athleticism, and that includes taking a hit.

However, it also means what works, works. Good knowledge of a variety of TMAs can help in MMA competition and strengthen technique. 

If you don't understand the technicality of MMA competition, then I don't think you'll "get" a lot of things. Personally, I think lots of MMA fighters rely a little too heavily on technique and percentages.

Your perception of the "brutality" in MMA is sorely mistaken. Fighters train to defend and fight in several ranges, and are heavily refereed. Compare that to boxing, where fighters can literally fight until they get hit in the head (or liver) enough so that they fall down. MMA allows for submissions and if a defender isn't able to defend him/herself, then the fight is called. That's not brutal. That's the sport taking care of their own.

I fully agree with Tez.

Including the bit about you dancing over the flame line.


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## kaizasosei (Jul 29, 2008)

Anyone will go down with the right hit.  The winner is the one that gets hit less and manages to hit or counter the other.

j


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## Brian R. VanCise (Jul 29, 2008)

There is without question alot of skill in the MMA ring whether UFC, WEC, CBS new show, etc. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Lot's of skill!


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## JadecloudAlchemist (Jul 29, 2008)

I don't think its anymore brutal than other sports like Football or Hockey.

You can not enter a ring and aspect to go toe to toe slug fest and I do not see that in MMA. You will notice it more as a Chess match. Trying to out think the opponent looking for openings correct countering.

Like other sports you have to take a hit but you also have to have skill and know what your doing. A linebacker does not just hit people on the surface it may seem like that but his role is to defend.


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## jkd friend (Jul 30, 2008)

It is very likely a deliberate flame attempt and frankly I have had enough of the TMA vs MMA garbage.

But to answer part of your question, if you cannot take a punch or a kick in ANY fighting sport, be it MMA, Sanshou, Karate, TKD, BJJ, Boxing or even Judo. You will not last long. If you cannot defend yourself against those that are trying to hit you &#8220;HARD&#8221; again you will not last long. And in MMA if you do not know how to take someone down and hold them there you are only at half your game and again you will not last long.

MMA in many cases is a combination of Muay Thai and BJJ but it is by definition made up of multiple MA styles and many real MMA people use whatever works to give them an advantage in the ring. This even extends to things like Qigong that one MMA fighter I once talked to told me he trained to help him stay calm and focus better in the ring.[/quote]







No, no flame the real part of my question my have been miss read by some. It's sheer force vs knowledge of ones self to render yourself victor in this sport. I understand mma but it's from my personal view that it swaying towards force(burtality) in that meaning.     (sorry forgot the qoute box please give if mess read)


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## kaizasosei (Jul 30, 2008)

hope i understood correctly but I think that you are right JKD FRIEND.  i guess because it takes very much skill and selfconfidence to overcome raw brute strength and plain willpower.

i personally believe in the martial arts to a high degree.  i think many fighters can benefit from tma.  a part of me is even happy the way it is-if everyone had mad skills and experience, then i wouldnt be able to be so snoty or confident as i am.

everyone is vulnerable.  those that can be in the right place at the right time, will have the best chance of surrviving or winning.


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## JadecloudAlchemist (Jul 30, 2008)

> It's sheer force vs knowledge of ones self to render yourself victor in this sport. I understand mma but it's from my personal view that it swaying towards force(burtality) in that meaning


 
Who is to say that the fighters do not have a spiritual or knowledge of oneself?  Again I don't understand brutality as in issue seeing as other sports are more brutal I mean you can get paralyzed in Football. 

Like all levels of competition it is mostly mental.


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## Tez3 (Jul 30, 2008)

kaizasosei said:


> hope i understood correctly but I think that you are right JKD FRIEND. i guess because it takes very much skill and selfconfidence to overcome raw brute strength and plain willpower.
> 
> i personally believe in the martial arts to a high degree. i think many fighters can benefit from tma. a part of me is even happy the way it is-if everyone had mad skills and experience, then i wouldnt be able to be so snoty or confident as i am.
> 
> everyone is vulnerable. those that can be in the right place at the right time, will have the best chance of surrviving or winning.


 

Raw brute strength? fighters are matched to be equal, equal weight and experience. 
Erm I'm sorry but your spelling doesn't make it clear if you mean snooty or snotty?


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## tshadowchaser (Jul 30, 2008)

Skill, power, mind set, and sometimes a little luck are all parts of MMA. 

If any of the above are lacking then the contest is one sided and not realy a contest.


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## terryl965 (Jul 30, 2008)

If you actually go into the game and was the technical aspect of each fighter it is a thing of beauty. MMA is not just about bawling it is a chest match with the victor being the one that can manipilate there opponet into a submission or a knockout. You know I wish they had this when I was younger and was willing to take a beating it would have been fun.


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## MJS (Jul 30, 2008)

jkd friend said:


> I am a fan of all fighting arenas with a question of the brutality in mma. It seems as though the technical aspect of a single persons fighting ability is not there, I once heard if you can hit and take a hit thats all you need with a little Know how as far as the ground game is concerned. So is it just a battle of force or a battle of an individual performance in knowledge and ability in combat!:asian:


 
IMO, MMA is pretty safe, and I really don't think that there have been any major injuries in the UFC, especially now, since they've made even more changes to the rules, the way the rounds are done, etc.  The refs. have the fighters safety in mind all the time.  

As far as your other question goes...it takes a bit more than just being able to hit and take a hit to be in the UFC.  I like to see technical skill.  If I wanted to see to jokers swing wildly at each other, I'd click on youtube.  IMHO, you need a solid understanding of the striking game, kicking, grappling, and conditioning.  Without those, a fighter probably won't last too long against someone who does have those skills.


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## TheOriginalName (Jul 30, 2008)

jkd friend said:


> ...I once heard if you can hit and take a hit thats all you need with a little Know how as far as the ground game is concerned.


 
A couple of quick things. 

Fighting off the ground is extremely difficult if you have not trained in it. I've been doing BJJ for about 2 months now and find that such a small amount of knowledge is enough for me to dominate someone who knows nothing. 

The simplest way to find out if what you have heard is correct is to get on your back and have someone pull on some gloves take the mount. Try to get out - i think you'll quickly decide that there is more to the ground game than just being able to take a punch. 

Then just imagine what it would be like if a BJJ black belt had mounted you.


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## Kempojujutsu (Jul 30, 2008)

I train guys to fight in MMA fights. Have even put on two shows. I have seen a fair number of guys that think there tough and want to get into the cage, or want to know how long will it take them to get into the cage. I want them to have some skill both striking, grappling, and cardio before they get into the cage. We have had some show up for a class and then never show up again. Probably because we do at least 30-45 minutes worth of cardio before getting down and actually working on technique. Many can't handle it, the ones that can, get to fight in the cage.


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## Tez3 (Jul 30, 2008)

Kempojujutsu said:


> I train guys to fight in MMA fights. Have even put on two shows. I have seen a fair number of guys that think there tough and want to get into the cage, or want to know how long will it take them to get into the cage. I want them to have some skill both striking, grappling, and cardio before they get into the cage. We have had some show up for a class and then never show up again. Probably because we do at least 30-45 minutes worth of cardio before getting down and actually working on technique. Many can't handle it, the ones that can, get to fight in the cage.


 

Yep totally agree with everything you've said! have you had the ones phone up asking for a fight 'because they've had a couple of street fights!'?


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## Kempojujutsu (Jul 30, 2008)

I had several guys come in and say they used to fight in a bar. They were heavy smokers and drinkers. 5 minutes of cardio and there done. Good way to weed out the ones that want to fight for the wrong reasons.


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## jkd friend (Jul 30, 2008)

MJS said:


> IMO, MMA is pretty safe, and I really don't think that there have been any major injuries in the UFC, especially now, since they've made even more changes to the rules, the way the rounds are done, etc. The refs. have the fighters safety in mind all the time.
> 
> As far as your other question goes...it takes a bit more than just being able to hit and take a hit to be in the UFC. I like to see technical skill. If I wanted to see to jokers swing wildly at each other, I'd click on youtube. IMHO, you need a solid understanding of the striking game, kicking, grappling, and conditioning. Without those, a fighter probably won't last too long against someone who does have those skills.


 



I may think a little differently as far as the second part of your answer. Kembo Slice is a good example of what you are saying can't happen. :asian:


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## Nolerama (Jul 31, 2008)

jkd friend said:


> I may think a little differently as far as the second part of your answer. Kembo Slice is a good example of what you are saying can't happen. :asian:



Kimbo was placed into an MMA league as a novelty item: he's a street brawler, playing with the "big boys." As much as I don't like his initial one range style (striking), I think he's learned a lot and has begun to respect other ranges of fighting.

If you notice the way he punches, those are some solid boxing-style punches adjusted for MMA (no bobbing the head below waist level, relying a fortress-fighter stance, squaring up more). It's pretty darn technical in the way he throws a punch. Kimbo doesn't even throw haymakers, his arms are just really big and they look like haymakers when he throws hooks...

I hate Kimbo Slice, but I can definitely respect his style.

Not everyone can get a black belt in BJJ.... But they can certainly train in takedown defense if they're primarily a striker. Kimbo's conditioning seems kind of lazy, but I have confidence in the fact that if he wants to stay in the game, he'll condition for it.

JkdFriend, may I suggest you go to your friendly neighborhood MMA gym, without pretensions, and train a session or two with them? I think your outlook will definitely coincide with what you claim to be as a JKD practitioner... And you'll definitely see what "works" with your style, and that a lot of the base ideas of JKD and MMA are really the same.


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## allenjp (Jul 31, 2008)

JadecloudAlchemist said:


> Who is to say that the fighters do not have a spiritual or knowledge of oneself? Again I don't understand brutality as in issue seeing as other sports are more brutal I mean you can get paralyzed in Football.
> 
> Like all levels of competition it is mostly mental.


 
There are FAR more injuries of ALL kinds in football and even Baseball than in MMA. And don't even get me started on boxing...now THOSE are some brutal sports.


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## allenjp (Jul 31, 2008)

TheOriginalName said:


> A couple of quick things.
> 
> Fighting off the ground is extremely difficult if you have not trained in it. I've been doing BJJ for about 2 months now and find that such a small amount of knowledge is enough for me to dominate someone who knows nothing.


 
I have found the same thing. Even just some basic knowledge of which positions give you the advantage is huge.




TheOriginalName said:


> Then just imagine what it would be like if a BJJ black belt had mounted you.


 
HAhahaha! Yeah, good luck with THAT!


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## CoryKS (Jul 31, 2008)

jkd friend said:


> I may think a little differently as far as the second part of your answer. Kembo Slice is a good example of what you are saying can't happen. :asian:


 
Kimbo's the first thing that came to mind when I read your post, but even he didn't just walk in off the street; he's been training with Bas Rutten.  There's an obvious difference between his professional matches and his street videos.  The first match I watched I thought, "Hey, Kimbo's learning jiujitsu!"

I have relatives who believed that MMA was "human cockfighting", that the fighters were just a bunch of dumb thugs.  I explained to them about the different styles, how you can tell the Muay Thai guys by the way they kick low, described what little I know about the different types of guards and locks.  They gave it a chance and did they change their minds!  Ended up watching fight repeats on Spike all day.


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## Tez3 (Jul 31, 2008)

CoryKS said:


> Kimbo's the first thing that came to mind when I read your post, but even he didn't just walk in off the street; he's been training with Bas Rutten. There's an obvious difference between his professional matches and his street videos. The first match I watched I thought, "Hey, Kimbo's learning jiujitsu!"
> 
> I have relatives who believed that MMA was "human cockfighting", that the fighters were just a bunch of dumb thugs. I explained to them about the different styles, how you can tell the Muay Thai guys by the way they kick low, described what little I know about the different types of guards and locks. They gave it a chance and did they change their minds! Ended up watching fight repeats on Spike all day.


 
Hallelujah! We'll convert the world one fight at a time lol!


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## allenjp (Aug 1, 2008)

CoryKS said:


> Kimbo's the first thing that came to mind when I read your post, but even he didn't just walk in off the street; he's been training with Bas Rutten. There's an obvious difference between his professional matches and his street videos.


 
You know what the other thing about Kimbo is, he had a pretty good fighting style to begin with. If you watch his street fight videos, he always keeps a low base, with good balance, keeps his hands up, and throws quick, straight punches, with his weight behind them. Some people have to train quite a bit just to get those skills down...


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## MJS (Aug 1, 2008)

jkd friend said:


> I may think a little differently as far as the second part of your answer. Kembo Slice is a good example of what you are saying can't happen. :asian:


 
Kimbos backyard fights were IMO all geared with boxing rules.  I didn't see any kicking or ground work in any of those fights.  Of course, his boxing skill was good, so watching his backyard brawls, I really didn't see any wild punches.  Now, Kimbo trains with Bas, so his MMA game, while still young, isn't bad.  My point was simply this....if someone with just punching skill enters the UFC, and fights against someone who is more well rounded, the outcome should be obvious.  Take Royce for example.  He fought guys with little to no ground game and won all his fights.


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## TridentOne (Aug 2, 2008)

So who wins in a Kimbo v Lesnar bout? Any heavyweight matchup is 1 punch away from being over. I might give the edge to Kimbo since fights always start standing up and boxing is his prevalent skill.


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## allenjp (Aug 5, 2008)

TridentOne said:


> So who wins in a Kimbo v Lesnar bout? Any heavyweight matchup is 1 punch away from being over. I might give the edge to Kimbo since fights always start standing up and boxing is his prevalent skill.


 
That would be an interesting match up since they are both relatively new to MMA, and they are both huge musclebound behemoth monsters.

Lesnar is fighting Heath Herring on Saturday, I don't know about you guys but my money is on Herring!


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## Steve (Aug 5, 2008)

LOL... Kimbo vs Brock.  What a matchup.  Neither is all that skilled.  But I'll give the nod to Lesnar, as I believe that in most cases a grappler with limited striking will prevail over a striker with limited grappling.  Kimbo doesn't like being on the ground and Brock, despite his lack of submission skills, is a skilled wrestler.  The fight would go to the ground where Lesnar's strength and positional wrestling would control the fight.  It would be boring, and I expect we'd see a lot of Lay N' Pray, but Lesnar pulls out the decision.


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