# Using techniques in sparring?



## fuhok (Jan 20, 2006)

Greetings brothers and sisters!

             I have an interesting subject on my mind and I wanted your opinions to alleviate my confused brain.  When I am sparring in Kenpo class I have never executed a technique. Come to think of it I cant remember executing any section of a technique such as a simple inward block followed by a hand sword.  My confusion led me to explore other martial arts namely Wing Chun and Muay Thai. 
Now when I spar I find that the techniques that I have learned from these other disciplines pay huge dividends. When in trouble, or behind in point sparring, I switch to Wing Chun`s centerline principle; throwing chain punches, using circle steps to evade and soft energy counter attacks. If I am very close to my partner I find myself pulling their head down and throwing Muay Thai knee strikes to the midsection and employing various secitons from Muay Thai`s "wall of defense". Again I have been very successful when employing these different tactics but i wish that i could use five swords just once!  My sparring partners are brown belts and above and many have been at our school for decades so my competition is up to par.  

My question is why cant I employee Kenpo techniques, in any form or fashion, on my sparring partners?  

I look forward to reading your answers.

Mike


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## Rick Wade (Jan 20, 2006)

I have used the first part of leaping crane and I have also used reversing mace.

V/R

Rick


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## Flying Crane (Jan 20, 2006)

Personally, I think the self defense techniques are often unlikely to be useful in a sparring match.  The techniques give you ideas to use, but at best you will only get portions of one or several techniqes to actually work under these circumstances.

Part of the problem is that the techniques assume you are actually doing damage to the opponent, which enables you to follow with the rest of the technique.  We are talking about actual injury and incapacitation, not just bumps and bruises.  Especially in a sparring match, you cannot deliver the kind of damage necessary to proceed the rest of the way.  You will run out of sparring partners.  In short, the parameters surrounding sparring, especially with safety and injury considerations, eliminate the usefulness of many of the techniques.


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## jdinca (Jan 20, 2006)

Kenpo techniques weren't really designed for sparring, they were to designed to incapacitate and attacker. Two very different applications.

As an example, your Muay Thai knees to the midsection while pulling the head down would be a knee to the head in kenpo, probably after a kick to the groin. Neither is kosher in the ring.

Don't think of kenpo as techniques think of it instead of the way you were taught to move. You may find that you are actually using some of those principles.


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## BlackCatBonz (Jan 20, 2006)

jdinca said:
			
		

> *Don't think of kenpo as techniques think of it instead of the way you were taught to move. You may find that you are actually using some of those principles*.


 
those are some wise words!!!


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## Touch Of Death (Jan 20, 2006)

Since the techs are all basic models to defend against various attacks with a two minor move set up for a major kill shot, work on creating an opening with a jab sweep or a sweep jab before trying to tag him with a knock out shot and there you go... you just did a technique.
Sean


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## jdinca (Jan 20, 2006)

BlackCatBonz said:
			
		

> those are some wise words!!!



:asian:


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## Seig (Jan 21, 2006)

Sounds like you are giving up too easy. Any of the people that have sparred with me can tell you, I use the techniques in sparring, to great effect. Sometimes, I have to apply the equation formula to prevent hurting someone. Pick a technique, start with a simple one, and try working it into your sparring.


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## rschoon (Feb 12, 2006)

I also try to use tech. in sparring.  I will just use 1 or 2 in any given session so that I can get a good feel for it.  Because of the lack of reaction due to the lack of damage done to my partner, I tend to only get the first parts of the tech's done.  Most imprtant to me is the timing that it allows me to learn.


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## Ray (Feb 12, 2006)

Pick up and look through a chess book (about strategy and tactics, not opening play) and you'll see that the principles are taught using made up positions (sometimes positions taken from an actual game).  In chess you get into positions that have similar characteristics but are not the same as other positions...by learning the principles you learn what applies once you recognize the characteristics.

I believe the same to be true in kenpo. If nothing else, look at techniques against a kick or punch; generally begins with a block and a movement of the body out of harms way followed by a counterstrike.  Persistant practice of techniques will teach where and how to counterstrike; as well as follow-ups after that.


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## arnisador (Feb 12, 2006)

They say that fencing is "physical chess."


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## kenpoworks (Feb 27, 2006)

Sascha Williams, produced "The  Book of Sparring Drills" circa 1995, which includes a section on using (Kenpo) techniques in freestyle,he has an interseting perspective on the matter.
Richie


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## Kim Dahl (Mar 9, 2006)

Hey 

You have to ask your self what is a Kenpo techniques . It is just Basis put together in a particular orden to teach you rules and principles of Motion. So when you are sparring you are just putting basis together in your own order.

Best Kenpo Regards
Kimpo


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## stickarts (Mar 9, 2006)

One thing that makes it difficult is the difference in rules: There are many safety rules in sparring whereas most self defense is survival. The same concepts of motion can be used though.


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## kenpoworks (Mar 9, 2006)

Fist things first define your sparring, if it is for competition then of course you are bound by the rules of the governing body period.
But if you want to be creative in sparring then the options are wide open BTW this does not mean beating the living crap out of each other, but rather explore and employ the vast number of variables that exist within our system.
Rich


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## bushidomartialarts (Mar 17, 2006)

kenpo techniques themselves almost never work while sparring.  there are a lot of reasons for this, the biggest (from my perspective) being that people rarely commit their whole energy to an attack while sparring.  this means their body reacts differently from how the techniques expect them to react.

your stances, transitioning and the flow of strike to strike will serve you well, but don't get attached to trying to pull off parting wings, or leaping crane, or (god help you) taming mace.


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## Hand Sword (Mar 17, 2006)

I agree. Trying to pull off techniques is very difficult, if not impossible while sparring, just as they would be in a self defense situation. The techniques are meant to give you an idea, you'd most likely never pull off one for real, just pieces of it. Keep it simple, stick to "kickboxing" techniques when sparring.


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## Kenpodoc (Mar 17, 2006)

bushidomartialarts said:
			
		

> kenpo techniques themselves almost never work while sparring. there are a lot of reasons for this, the biggest (from my perspective) being that people rarely commit their whole energy to an attack while sparring. this means their body reacts differently from how the techniques expect them to react.
> 
> your stances, transitioning and the flow of strike to strike will serve you well, but don't get attached to trying to pull off parting wings, or leaping crane, or (god help you) taming mace.


Taming the Mace I've done. Not on purpose, it just happened.

Jeff


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## DavidCC (Mar 17, 2006)

Try getting geared up as if for sparring, then simulating an attack you might have to face in a real situation, attacker continuing the attack as best they can.  Is it sparring? <shrug> but you will see if you are internalizing your techniques or just imitating the kickboxers on TV.


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## Touch Of Death (Mar 17, 2006)

I use multiple variations of Delayed Sword all the time.
Sean


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## rudy fox (Mar 27, 2006)

This is an excellent discussion / observation. I too have tried to execute techniques while sparring. While the results are usually not pretty, I have done simple techniques like delayed sword. But, it doesn't look exactly like we do it in class.

Remember, we learn the "ideal phase" in class. I think that sets an unrealistic expectation in our early training: in that we expect to see and respond to the "front right straight punch" attack. Think about it, though. Because the nature of sparring is dynamic, I think it would be a rare event to execute the ideal phase of the technique in so dynamic an environment.

That is what makes 'timing' such a critical element in countering an attack with a technique. If you knew exactly when and from what angle the attack was coming, you could prepare for it and launch your technique.

For example, I can stand in a batting cage and hit a 90MPH fastball. That is because every pitch from the machine is nearly identical. I adjust the timing of my swing to hit the ball.

Now, put me in the box with a pitcher who can throw a 90MPH fastball or an 80MPH curve or a 75MPH changeup and I'd probably strike out beacuse you have now put me in a dynamic environment. I have to adjust to each pitch at the moment it is thrown.

It's the same thing in sparring. (Note - I'm not trying to insult your intelligence). People don't throw the ideal 'front right straight punch' all of the time. They change speeds, vary angles of delivery, alter their weapons and the like.

While I am comfortable executing techniques, I have not yet learned or mastered the techniques to the point where they are instinctive. I believe Bruce Lee called it 'mushin' and Ed Parker referred such a degree of understanding in the stages of learning.

When I watch the black belts and my instructor, they execute techniques without having to think about it...and I think that is what it takes to be able to execute a technique in such a dynamic environment as sparring or in a street fight. You can't think...just react...

How does one achieve this level where the execution of techniques is instinctive or like a reflex? Practice and repetition.

Respectfully submitted,

Rudy


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## jfarnsworth (Mar 27, 2006)

rudy fox said:
			
		

> How does one achieve this level where the execution of techniques is instinctive or like a reflex?


Orange belt saying #1
"Let time be your measurement to skill and experience" - Ed Parker
:asian:


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