# Role of Women Instructors in SD



## moromoro (Apr 25, 2003)

i think in SD it is a good idea to have women instructors as long as they know what they are doing


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## arnisador (Apr 25, 2003)

> _Originally posted by moromoro _
> *i think in SD it is a good idea to have women instructors as long as they know what they are doing *



Well, that applies equally well to men _and_ women I'd say!


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## moromoro (Apr 25, 2003)

of course


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## lvwhitebir (Apr 25, 2003)

> _Originally posted by moromoro _
> *i think in SD it is a good idea to have women instructors as long as they know what they are doing *



Any particular reason why?  

WhiteBirch


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## moromoro (Apr 25, 2003)

to give the female practitioners more confidence


i completely disagree with the fact that men should learn with a women as the instructor................


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## Rich Parsons (Apr 27, 2003)

> _Originally posted by moromoro _
> *to give the female practitioners more confidence
> 
> 
> i completely disagree with the fact that men should learn with a women as the instructor................ *




Why?


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## moromoro (Apr 28, 2003)

> Why?



hi rich

well do you think that theres a woman out there that can beat you?????????

i dont think so

thanks

terry


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## lvwhitebir (Apr 28, 2003)

> _Originally posted by moromoro _
> *well do you think that theres a woman out there that can beat you?????????
> *



I'm sure there are plenty of women out that that could beat men.  I think Cathy Long would hand me my head on a platter.

I personally think that SD can be taught by anyone.  Making women feel comfortable (as well as some men) is difficult but not insurmountable.  In fact, them getting over their problems facing a male "attacker" in a class setting should help them if they ever meet one for real.  I'd hate to have someone train where they're just comfortable and then have to face an attacker that scares the hell out of them simply because it's a male.

Now another question.  Anyone have ideas on how to make SD students feel comfortable enough?  For the women out there, did you have problems working with men when you started and if so, how did you overcome them?  Was it a particular type of drill or something the instructor did, or was it just time?

WhiteBirch


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## Bob Hubbard (Apr 28, 2003)

I remember reading something about a female Kenpoist who competed in full contact stuff....had a god winnng record if I remember right..

I think its more skill and what you bring that gender.


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## tshadowchaser (Apr 28, 2003)

Knowledge knows no gender. Teaching ability has no sign saying men- women. 
 To learn one must want to , and then be willing to be shown.
 To instructuct one must have some idea of what they are doing and be willing to share that knowledge.  
 Be it a man , a woman, or something that is part inbetween, the ability to instruct and to help others overcome fears, and the practical knowledge that needs be past on is all that is required.
  Some places in the world do not reconise women as equal  and that is part of there culture. but it has nothing to do with the ability of a woman to defend herslef  or to instruct others.
 If we are to belive the history of the White Crane and a few other systyems  they where started by women


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## pesilat (Apr 28, 2003)

> _Originally posted by moromoro _
> *hi rich
> 
> well do you think that theres a woman out there that can beat you?????????
> ...



I know several who could beat me.

But past that, (specifically related to FMA) the FMA are weapon based and, often, blade based. A blade doesn't care how big or strong its wielder is. A woman with a blade is just as dangerous as a man with a blade.

Mike


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## moromoro (Apr 28, 2003)

well i guarantee you i have not met any female and will probably never will who could beat me, well iam 6ft 230pounds heavy bone structure

according to medical science we have an added ingredient in our bodies that make it imposible for a woman to beat us

TESTOSTERONE


with our speed and strength women cannot realistically beat us in combat.......

also iam not talking about demonstration, if you spare with a woman these factors will win in the end...




> But past that, (specifically related to FMA) the FMA are weapon based and, often, blade based.



this is exactly the reason why you dont hear of women eskrimadors involve in the classic era of challenge matches in cebu city......All the masters will laugh at you told them a woman was a great eskrimador.........


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## arnisador (Apr 29, 2003)

Moved from Womens Self-Defense forum.

-Arnisador
-MT Admin-


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## Bob Hubbard (Apr 29, 2003)

Ok Terry,

Based on what you've posted here so far a woman can not hope to best you in a confrontation due to your size, weight and bone structure.  In addition, you have going for you 'testosterone', speed, stamina and agility.

Am I summarizing you correctly here so far?


So....What must a female do to defend herself?  Or, is there no chance of it and she should just be a victim?


Oh, and as to your physical description....I've got 1 word..."Chyna!"


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## moromoro (Apr 29, 2003)

hi kaith
all i said at the start was i agree on women self defense instructors i think it is great as long as they now what they are doing and if they stick to teaching other women i.e rape prevention and that type of stuff.

i do not like the idea of women teaching men, (in particular men who want to become fighters and not just learn self defence.)



> So....What must a female do to defend herself? Or, is there no chance of it and she should just be a victim?



well against trained and seasoned fighters a woman has little hope, but we train every day and we are also class people who dont look for trouble it is very different to defend against a trained and seasoned fighter......then to defend against a thug wanting to rob or rape.....

I JUST KNOW THAT WOMEN CANNOT BEAT TRAINED AND SEASONED FIGHTERS



OH and about china yeah shes good but shes not as big or strong as what she was 5 years ago, must be the plastic surgery.......................

thanks

terry


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## Zepp (Apr 29, 2003)

> _Originally posted by arnisador _
> *Moved from Womens Self-Defense forum.
> 
> -Arnisador
> -MT Admin- *



Good call Arnisador.

I think my statement about different styles applies to different genders as well.  In a fight between a man and a woman, the loser will be the one who most underestimates their opponent.


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## Yari (Apr 29, 2003)

> _Originally posted by moromoro _
> *
> 
> I JUST KNOW THAT WOMEN CANNOT BEAT TRAINED AND SEASONED FIGHTERS
> ...




Wrong. Just because of a hormon you mean that women cant beat men. It is true that men can be stronger because of the hormon, but not nessarily better. That depends on the individual.

Concerning old escrimador's laughing of the thought that women could beat men; I think it has a lot to do with old traditional roles in society. Just as you would normally see women as knights (But we do have Jaen D'arc [I cant remember her whole name]).

/Yari


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## Nightingale (Apr 29, 2003)

Yari, I think you were referring to the french saint that we know as "Joan of Arc" but I'm not totally sure.

And, moromoro, please keep in mind that that "testosterone" you were bragging about also leaves you with a vulnerability.  Sure, a groin shot won't end every fight, but I've seen a couple of women end an altercation that way (twice in a bar, and once in the studio where the gentleman in question forgot a certain critical part of his gear).  

It isn't all your strength against all my strength...  Its weapon vs. target...   its the strength of your testicles against the strength of my knee.  The trick is, getting in the shot. and everyone, even women, get a lucky shot every so often....


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## Taiji fan (Apr 29, 2003)

women also produce testosterone...as men also produce ( in obviously smaller amounts than women) oestrogen ....

the old men are stronger, bigger, better argument went out with the ark....vunerablitity comes in many forms.  I ahve known of a 6'6" 17 stone rugby player who was scarred $h*&less of his little 5'2" wife who was beating the cr@p out of him daily.....his conditioning told him that he couldn't hit a woman.......after she hit him over the head with the iron, they started going to counselling.  

Nightingal is spot on. 





> It isn't all your strength against all my strength... Its weapon vs. target... its the strength of your testicles against the strength of my knee. The trick is, getting in the shot. and everyone, even women, get a lucky shot every so often....



its not necessarily about slugging it out, its about fighting with your brain, so that puts you testosterone driven single brain cell types way down the evolution ladder.  

besides, why does it have to be a gender equasion?  if you are a 230lb 6' bloke does that not mean by your reconning that you always going to beat a 100lb 5' bloke, because of size and strength?


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## moromoro (Apr 29, 2003)

> I ahve known of a 6'6" 17 stone rugby player who was scarred $h*&less of his little 5'2" wife who was beating the cr@p out of him daily



our girlfriends and wives are our toughest opponents......WE ARE **** SCARED OF THEM!

WITH MY BOUNCING WORK i have come across women who act tough among other women these are usually at biker bars....
but i have never ever ever seen a woman beat a man who could fight, 

as a man who has trained in the MA (FMA for the past 17 years) and i have reached almost the highest level of my art, i will not hit a woman (most good guys will never hit a woman as well) but i will tell you this women are NOT FIGHTERS I DONT CARE ABOUT POLITICAL CORRECTNESS THEY ARE NOT FIGHTERS! PLAIN AND SIMPLE sure a few can reach 6th 7th or even a 10th dan but you will still beat them in a fight in the end if you are a trained fighter, if you train for a fight (cross train, weapons, MMA, Muay thai, jujutsu) you will not lose to any woman unless you are built like a woman as well......

thanks

terry


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## moromoro (Apr 29, 2003)

ALSO 

HOW COULD YOU LIVE WITH YOURSELVES AFTER BEIGN BEATEN BY A WOMAN, THAT'S LIKE BEIGN BEATEN BY A CHILD

i think if you get beaten by a woman its time to change professions the MA game isnt for you!


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## Taiji fan (Apr 29, 2003)

> HOW COULD YOU LIVE WITH YOURSELVES AFTER BEIGN BEATEN BY A WOMAN, THAT'S LIKE BEIGN BEATEN BY A CHILD


 well I guess if you were an arrogant egotisticall prat...that would really hurt 



> NOT FIGHTERS I DONT CARE ABOUT POLITICAL CORRECTNESS THEY ARE NOT FIGHTERS! PLAIN AND SIMPLE


 big underestimation!  When a woman needs to fight....she will fight and woe betide anyone who gets in the way.



> i think if you get beaten by a woman its time to change professions the MA game isnt for you!


 sounds like your 17 years has taught you little.  Your captain caveman attitude is laughable......I get the feeling you are secretly afraid that you masculinity would be in doubt if you were beaten by a woman......there sounds like there could be a good lesson there for you....try it, you might actually like it.  What image do you have when someone says the word 'woman'?  a little girl, dressed in pink, with pig tails needing you to be the big strong man to protect her....?  More and more women are training as fighters you have just dismissed the entire gender with your outdated statements.  I imagine there are many women who would not be your equal in a fight, but I am sure that there are just as many who would be......but then if you wouldn't hit a woman anyway you are not going to get very far anyway....... you have to fight with your brain......not your ego


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## Yari (Apr 29, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Taiji fan _
> * you have to fight with your brain......not your ego *




I agree totally.

To moromoro, dont put people down on gender. It has nothing to do with politicle correctness, it has to do with respect towards others.

But I may be misunderstanding you, but then explain, but please refrein from using capitals (which is like shouting on the panel...).

/Yari


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## Cthulhu (Apr 29, 2003)

My buddy at work had a front row seat as a tiny woman (at or just under 5' and definitely under 100lbs) got in a fight with her date and punched out the *rear windshield* of his car with her *bare hand* with a single blow.

Size doesn't matter as much as many people believe.

Cthulhu


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## jeffkyle (Apr 29, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Cthulhu _
> *My buddy at work had a front row seat as a tiny woman (at or just under 5' and definitely under 100lbs) got in a fight with her date and punched out the rear windshield of his car with her bare hand with a single blow.
> 
> Size doesn't matter as much as many people believe.
> ...



That is pretty cool!  I had a male friend that was about 5'9" and weighed about 140 and HE couldn't even punch out a side window of a car.   
Remind me to stay away from that woman.


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## fist of fury (Apr 29, 2003)

> _Originally posted by moromoro _
> *hi rich
> 
> well do you think that theres a woman out there that can beat you?????????
> ...



Then by that logic why should a woman take SD if she can't beat a man.


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## pesilat (Apr 29, 2003)

> _Originally posted by moromoro _
> *
> I JUST KNOW THAT WOMEN CANNOT BEAT TRAINED AND SEASONED FIGHTERS
> *



Why not? There are women who are trained and seasoned fighters, too. And fighting isn't all about size/strength/bone structure/testosterone. If it were, then the bigger, stronger, more "masculine" fighter would always win.

By that logic, you would have no chance against someone who is 6' 5", 300 lbs., and a steroid junky. That's no different than a 5'5" 150 lbs. woman facing you.

So if you were faced with a guy like I described, would you have a chance?

Mike


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## Bob Hubbard (Apr 29, 2003)

Its funny... the "A girl cant beat a guy" thing...

My GF is this little thing...she was at work once and one of her rather dim witted coworkers tried that line....

He was a bit more respectful (sadly not much) after she showed him the error of his thought pattern.

He was a full foor and a half taller and outweighted her by 20+ pounds.



I've seen some women in the competition circuits who could give a guy a good challenge.  Also recall a gal from the 40's who went old-school wrestling style against men, and had a decent win/loss record.  Mildred something or other I think her name was...


Let us also not forget the fact that Husband abuse and rape of men by females do exist, and in larger #'s than we are aware of.

The "Girls cant beat boys" stuff went out last century.  I think its time the world learned to walk upright myself.


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## KenpoTess (Apr 29, 2003)

.................'The Queen of Pain'......................


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## cdhall (Apr 29, 2003)

You go Tess!

I just have to chime in.

I am sure I can find a female professional boxer here in Austin, Texas who could wipe him out.

When I signed up there was a girl in my class who could out spar anyone.  I've told that story before but everyone knew she would throw a ridgehand to the back of your head if you sparred her, but everyone still got hit just the same.

This was a beginnig class of course.

And I'm sure Dr. Chapel has a girl who could beat moromoro as well.

As far as "I just know..." goes.  I think this is what Science is for.  The underlying principle of all Sciene is "If P then therefore probably Q."  This means that no scientist will ever tell you that anything is "for certain" because there are so many variables that even the same thing may not happen the same way under the same conditions.  

Aristarchus of Samnos knew the circumference of the spherical Earth back in 300BC, but Columbus "didn't know this" 1100 years later and nearly starved to death. So be careful what you "know" because someone may know something that is more accurate.

I think Mr. Parker himself showed several people the error of their thinking during seminars.  Most often right after hearing them say something similar to "I know that won't work."


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## moromoro (Apr 29, 2003)

bla bla bla

i see alot of you are getting upset with my stance but it is a true stance..

1. is there any female GM's out there, no idont think so

2. why dont they allow females to fight males in a boxing match (do you know a female boxer who could last 12 rounds with mike, tua or lewis)

3. why dont they allow women to fight men in MMA pride or UFC?

4. science also has stated that a woman could not beat a male,

now these are the facts  



> By that logic, you would have no chance against someone who is 6' 5", 300 lbs., and a steroid junky. That's no different than a 5'5" 150 lbs. woman facing you.



you misunderstand, fighting is not all about size it is about skill, size and speed help, speed more so than size. 

but iam talking about women here women fighters those two words dont belong in the same sentence..........

ALSO SHOW US PROOF THAT A WOMAN HAS BEATEN A SKILLED FIGHTER......you see you guys cant back it up,

WAKE UP I DONT MEAN TO HURT YOUR FELLINGS WOMEN SHOULD NOT FIGHT, yes they should learn self defence to protect themselves but against someone with skill they have little chance...............


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## cdhall (Apr 29, 2003)

> _Originally posted by moromoro _
> * bla bla bla
> 
> i see alot of you are getting upset with my stance but it is a true stance..
> ...



Female TKD Grandmaster
http://www.jsw.com/instructors/gm_bio.html

The Queen of Filipino Martial Arts
http://tuhonruby.tripod.com/



> *:WAKE UP I DONT MEAN TO HURT YOUR FELLINGS WOMEN SHOULD NOT FIGHT, yes they should learn self defence to protect themselves but against someone with skill they have little chance............... *



I think that maybe the hypothetical "perfect male" should be able to defeat the hypothetical "perfect female" easily, but this is not what you said.  In the real world, for every male fighter, there is probably a female who could beat them.  But there are more professional male fighters than female fighters and I do agree that men have an inherent advantage over women. Generally speaking.  There are many cultural reasons you don't see more women fighters and Grandmasters I'm sure.

I have found an article here where in 1992 Bill Wallace said much of what you have said here but went to apologize in person to Kathy Long.  I'm just guessing, but I bet Mr. Wallace has more fight experience than you do. The article to look for is titled
Kathy Long 1992 Black Belt Magazine Full Contact Fighter
http://www.ikfkickboxing.com/ProfileKathyLong.htm

You can even email her directly from there.  Tell us if she is afraid to fight you.  If I'm coming off a bit harsh, it is only in response to the viciousness of your assertions.  I am trying to be respectful, but I am truly diametrically opposed to your assertions and even most of your logic.  God bless America where we can have a civil disagreement.
:asian:


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## Cthulhu (Apr 29, 2003)

This thread is now locked.  The thread can only continue to worsen due to the sensitive nature of the subject and lack of ability for some to see other points of view.

Cthulhu
-MT Admin.-


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