# Good Jian/Gim?



## oaktree (Jul 19, 2012)

I am looking to get a good Jian for Chen Taijiquan which I will be learning the form from my teacher and my local Martial art store just has some over price competitiion swords with the weight of rubber sword.

 I am looking for something with a better balance and some weight to it. I was leaning towards Adam Hsu's swords but if someone knows something better let me know. I know I can get one from China but from what I was told that it is illegal to ship sword from China with an edge/sharpen on the blade.

Also I am looking in a price range of $200-600 for a first sword. Something that wil build good form, habits with.

Thanks for the help and insight.


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## clfsean (Jul 19, 2012)

In '01... I brought a spring steel dao back from Dengfeng & another person I was travelling with brought a Kukri back on the same flight. Both had edges & neither had issues on either end.

I've got a Hsu gim. I bought it when the series first came out in 04-05-ish... I like it better than any other gim I've had previously.


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## mograph (Jul 19, 2012)

I have the Hsu Jian ( http://www.cashanwei.com/cashanwei/prod_Detail.aspx?id=SH2269B ) and like it, but the handle was too small for my hand, so I wrapped it with grip tape. So now it's a Wilson jian!  I like its feel, but it may be a bit light. I also have the Raven Studios Jian, which is beautiful for a wood piece that you can actually spar with. It's heavier than the Hsua jian. ( http://www.little-raven.com/RS/MA/Gim.html )

I've played trumpet for about 30 years, and I look at sword choice the way I look at trumpet mouthpiece choice: at the start, I chose a 7C mouthpiece, and only after playing a while have I found that I like a 3C. But now, I might go back to the store and try a 5A. The sword is like that: I won't know the right sword until I practice for a few more years. Until then, I won't spend too much money.


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## Flying Crane (Jul 19, 2012)

Check out this one.  I bought my butterfly swords from them, they are excellent.  Very clean, quality steel, very sharp.  I've had my eye on their Jian for a long time, would love to get some feedback from another customer.  I shared some emails with the owner of this business before I bought, he seems like an upright guy.  The price is good, $235.

http://www.traditionalfilipinoweapons.com/Chinese Jian.html


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## oaktree (Jul 19, 2012)

Thanks for the replies. I am looking on Taobao, it says if you want a sword sharpen you have to ask. So I am going to see what I can find through them.
  My father-in-law says there is a Sword shop near him in Guangzhou so he says he will ask as well.

I have heard some good reviews on this sword:
http://kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=CS88G&name=Cold+Steel+Gim+Sword
I thought about the Damascus but I don't see enough reviews on it to make me put down half a grand on it.
http://www.martialartsmart.com/45-1013.html

Adam hsu's sword does look good and there is a strong chance I will purchase it since it is very affordable.


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## oaktree (Jul 19, 2012)

Hey Flying Crane 
excellent find!!! I like the very classy simplistic style on it. A strong consideration because I like simple designs.


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## Flying Crane (Jul 19, 2012)

oaktree said:


> Hey Flying Crane
> excellent find!!! I like the very classy simplistic style on it. A strong consideration because I like simple designs.



yep, and everything they make are meant to be absolutely real.  These are actually made in the Philippines but I believe he works with very specific smiths, people he knows and trusts to do good work, use good materials, and make consistently high quality pieces. 

I do love my butterfly swords.  If the Jian and the Dao are of the same quality then I think they are a very good choice, especially for that price.  Hopefully I will eventually add one of each to my collection.


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## clfsean (Jul 19, 2012)

Best looking & closest to correct butterflies I've seen.


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## Randy Strausbaugh (Jul 19, 2012)

Good find, Flying Crane!  Thanks for sharing.
I also like the clean look of this jian.  I think the next time I can scratch up the money for a blade, I'll go for this one.
You ought to see if they will give you a discount for bringing them more business  .


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## oaktree (Jul 19, 2012)

Well I just spent 4 hours talking to a sword company in China. I am getting a custom made 1095 carbon steel tempered, sharpen with a 30inch blade and custom inscribe Hanzi.

 Total cost was only $200 through paypal.

I was told it will take a month to make. The girl I talked to is cute  she is from Zhejiang and a Pisces. Hopefully everything works out.:highfive:
 Most likely I will get the Jian flying Crane mention as well. Just have to explain to my wife why I need more than one sword.:whip:


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## Flying Crane (Jul 20, 2012)

oaktree said:


> Well I just spent 4 hours talking to a sword company in China. I am getting a custom made 1095 carbon steel tempered, sharpen with a 30inch blade and custom inscribe Hanzi.
> 
> Total cost was only $200 through paypal.



What kind of hilt will it have?  That is where I often find the biggest problems: poor hilt materials, poor construction. loose fitting.  Hopefully the guard and pommel will be solid, and it all fits tight and clean?



> Most likely I will get the Jian flying Crane mention as well. Just have to explain to my wife why I need more than one sword.:whip:



cool, I would love to get your feedback on it.  I'm lucky in that my wife doesn't complain when I want yet another!! sword.  She might roll her eyes a bit, but she understands the need and is cool with it.  For various birthday and holiday gifts, she has bought for me: swords, tomahawks, archery gear...

I'm a lucky man.


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## oaktree (Jul 20, 2012)

Hey FlyingCrane,
The closest design to what I got is this one that I was originally considering,
http://kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=CS88G&name=Cold+Steel+Gim+Sword
The guard and Pommel are brass and the handle wood. I do worry a little about the handle and guard, which is why I asked them if I have any problems with it what their return policy is. They said they will replace any defects on their part. I have handled some of the cheaper Jian that are 440 steel and poor quality for competition and sold at local martial art supply stores, and I could feel the guard and the hilt rattling, I am hoping the sword I got is in good faith and the price was reasonable if everything goes well.

I will let you know when I order the Jian from link you gave, on the plus side doing the order for this sword got my wife interested in swords and I saw her last night looking up sword information:duel: So we might need more than one sword in the house 
Here is the link to the site I went to, it is all in Chinese and there is a customer service person that comes up.
http://www.ljg8.com/category-274-1.html


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## Flying Crane (Jul 20, 2012)

oaktree said:


> Hey FlyingCrane,
> The closest design to what I got is this one that I was originally considering,
> http://kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=CS88G&name=Cold+Steel+Gim+Sword
> The guard and Pommel are brass and the handle wood. I do worry a little about the handle and guard, which is why I asked them if I have any problems with it what their return policy is. They said they will replace any defects on their part. I have handled some of the cheaper Jian that are 440 steel and poor quality for competition and sold at local martial art supply stores, and I could feel the guard and the hilt rattling, I am hoping the sword I got is in good faith and the price was reasonable if everything goes well.



The grip itself being wood is not a problem.  I like to use wood when I rebuild hilts, it's solid and can be quite attractive.  Often a grip will be wrapped with something to enhance the grip, like cord or cloth or leather, but underneath it will still be wood.  I think those enhancements can be a good thing.  I don't know how to do that, I've never tried, I just like the look of wood, especially a good curly maple, that's been my favorite to work with.

What I often see in the guard and the pommel of most of the pieces coming out of China are one of two things:  they are either a wood core with a thin sheet of brass covering to make it look like solid brass, or they are cast in two pieces of brass and welded together creating a hollow piece.

The cast brass is probably more sturdy than the wood core, but both of them lack real weight to balance the blade, and lack the kind of strength that you would want in a real serviceable weapon.  This is where you want the pieces, both guard and pommel, to be made of solid metal, either steel, iron, bronze, or brass.  This give the strength of a serviceable guard to protect the hand, and the weight in the pommel to balance the blade, and the strength in the pommel to act as a secondary pummeling and punching weapon.

The other issue is that the tang be thick, wide, and substantial, and be made as one piece with the blade.  If the tang is welded on, that's a weak point and a problem with the weapon.  If the tang is thin, obviously that can be a problem where it might not hold up under stress.  The three pieces of the hilt, the guard, grip, and pommel, all should fit tightly to the tang and to each other, so there is no empty space or loose points where they might rattle.  Sometime the grip will be drilled out much wider than the tang warrants, so the inside of the grip itself does not fit closely to the tang.  It is simply held on by the pressure of the hex nut behind the pommel.  That's a poor fit, even if it feels tight, but you may not realize it without taking the hilt apart.

These are problems I often see with the cheap stuff from China, even if the blade seems to be acceptable.  Hopefully with a custom piece they will do a good job with the hilt.




> I will let you know when I order the Jian from link you gave, on the plus side doing the order for this sword got my wife interested in swords and I saw her last night looking up sword information:duel: So we might need more than one sword in the house



now THAT'S the way to play it.  Good job!



> Here is the link to the site I went to, it is all in Chinese and there is a customer service person that comes up.
> http://www.ljg8.com/category-274-1.html



I took a look, yeah my ability to read Chinese is non-existant so I don't know what's going on there.  Pretty pictures, tho.


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## oaktree (Jul 23, 2012)

I spoke with my teacher about learning the Jian and how I bought one, he said the Jian should go from leg to Dan tian :uhohh: 

 Hopefully, from the measurement I got from standard competition my measurements are correct. My teacher further said that make sure the sword has a little flexibility
So when you Fa jin the little bit shaking of the sword will give you feed back that you are issuing it correctly. On the bright side it means I can buy another sword 

Further more my teacher told me he drives around with his swords in his car, leading me to belive he might be a super hero .


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## mograph (Jul 23, 2012)

oaktree said:


> I spoke with my teacher about learning the Jian and how I bought one, he said the Jian should go from leg to Dan tian :uhohh:


I think you just don't want it to scrape the ground when you do a down stroke (sorry, don't know the term) ...?


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## oaktree (Jul 23, 2012)

Hi Mograph,

I think that is a good point, I will ask more about lengths this week.


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## clfsean (Jul 23, 2012)

I use a 28' length one, same as my dao. 

They may be 'technically' a little short, but as previous mentioned, I don't sweat clipping the ground.


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## oaktree (Sep 17, 2012)

Update on my Jian.

I received my Jian today. I wish they package the sword in box or something separate to keep the popcorn packaging from getting into it. 
  The blade itself is nice, firm with a little bend, sharp and well oiled. 

The handle and guard are a little loose not rattling loose but I am thinking that in 6 months of heavy use it might become loose enough to start rattling. 

The sword tassel is very large and has a heavy feeling to it, if you move the blade in certain angles the tassel gets in the way of the blade. The sword has a great balance which was one of the main things I was looking for in learning my form. I think it is a great first Jian but I will be purchasing from some other areas in particular ones listed in this thread and will post my thoughts on those or any other Chinese Jian I get and from where.


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## Xue Sheng (Sep 17, 2012)

oaktree said:


> The sword tassel is very large and has a heavy feeling to it, if you move the blade in certain angles the tassel gets in the way of the blade.



Shorten, change or remove the tassel


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## oaktree (Sep 17, 2012)

Oh for sure I am going to shorten the tassel, I will wait to see if my teacher wants me to remove it completely. 
:boing2:


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## yak sao (Sep 17, 2012)

I've been eyeing those butterfly swords. They're not exactly like the ones we use , but close enough if we're taliking a quality sword.
Anyone have these that could pass along a review?


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## Flying Crane (Oct 3, 2012)

yak sao said:


> I've been eyeing those butterfly swords. They're not exactly like the ones we use , but close enough if we're taliking a quality sword.
> Anyone have these that could pass along a review?



are you talking about the ones from Traditionalphillipinoweaponry?  I've got them.  I love them.  I don't love the sheath they came with, I had a friend make a new one.  but the knives are really nice, quality, comfortable.


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## yak sao (Oct 4, 2012)

Flying Crane said:


> are you talking about the ones from Traditionalphillipinoweaponry? I've got them. I love them. I don't love the sheath they came with, I had a friend make a new one. but the knives are really nice, quality, comfortable.



Yes, those are the ones.
So do they hold up well in 2 man work....say, knives vs pole training?


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## Flying Crane (Oct 4, 2012)

yak sao said:


> Yes, those are the ones.
> So do they hold up well in 2 man work....say, knives vs pole training?



I've not done any interactive work like that, just forms.  They are quite sharp, I would not use them for interactive training, I think it would be very dangerous.  Too expensive to file them down to make them safe.  I'd get a cheaper blunted pair for that.  

I think they are solid, I think they would hold up, the guards are thick steel, I believe the blade has good integrity.  I cannot see the tang so I don't know how thick it is, but I'm going on faith.  I exchanged a couple emails with the guy who runs the website, he seems upright and believes in the construction of these.  I just don't think they are the right ones for contact training because of their sharpness, and over time they would get beat up, maybe not the best way to spend money for that kind of exercise.  But when the zombies rise up and the world turns upside down, believe me, I'll be keeping these close at hand.


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## yak sao (Oct 4, 2012)

Flying Crane said:


> I've not done any interactive work like that, just forms.  They are quite sharp, I would not use them for interactive training, I think it would be very dangerous.  Too expensive to file them down to make them safe.  I'd get a cheaper blunted pair for that.  I think they are solid, I think they would hold up, the guards are thick steel, I believe the blade has good integrity.  I cannot see the tang so I don't know how thick it is, but I'm going on faith.  I exchanged a couple emails with the guy who runs the website, he seems upright and believes in the construction of these.  I just don't think they are the right ones for contact training because of their sharpness, and over time they would get beat up, maybe not the best way to spend money for that kind of exercise.  But when the zombies rise up and the world turns upside down, believe me, I'll be keeping these close at hand.


I guess if they're that sharp i'd better not use them for 2 man work...I hate accidently killing training partners...it's so messy and then you have to worry about hiding the bodiy.I do want to get a pair though, like you said, probably pretty effective against zombies.


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## Ynze (Nov 2, 2012)

A good jian at a fair price can be bought at: http://sevenstarstrading.com/site/hanwei/cuttingjian/

For sparring you'd better use a good solid wooden jian: http://www.tigers-den-swords.com/web_pages/products.htm.

The lenght of a blade is totally irrelevant. One should use what feels good. (I practice with a 26" blade and with a 31" blade) If you know what you're doing with good techniques you'll never hit the ground.


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