# hello to everyone at martial talk



## khand50 (Dec 22, 2009)

hello.  my name is kevin.  i am 50 years old.  i have been studying martial arts since 1969.  i currently live in illinois,  about 1 1/2 hours south west of chicago,  just off interstate 80.  
   over the years i have trained in numerous arts,  including tae kwon do, judo, wrestling, isshin ryu karate, shorei ryu karate, hapkido, kang nei chin kung fu,  shao lama chinese boxing,  jkd, and various filipino arts.  i have a 1st dan in oikiru ryu goshin jitsu under soke rod sachornoski,  a 3rd dan in sun do sul under master ed minyard,  a red belt/black stripe in itf tae kwon do under master jong moon lee,  was an assistant instructor at the shao lama chinese boxing academy in bloomington il,  advanced student at the jkd extreme academy, under my friend and instructor,  richie carrion,  and assistant instructor in jkd as the sdma academy under my friend and instructor,  the late edwin pagan.  ed was a 2nd gen instructor under richard bustillo in jkd,  and held numerous other high ranking titles in martial arts.   in 1992,  ed gave me permission to teach jkd under his sdma academy, making me a 3rd gen instructor. 
    in the early 80's i was frustrated with the limitations of individual styles offered in the area i lived in and set about to create a training program for myself and a friend so we could work on what was needed to cover all three fighting ranges,  (long,middle,close range) as i knew them from the jkd material i had studied up to that point.   i determined that most schools, such as tae kwon do,  which i had trained in for many years, lacked the use of close range skills, such as trapping and hitting to the face.   and they lacked the weapons training that i personally enjoyed.  so i sat down and studied all the materials i could and came up with my own teaching format that i termed,  "creative martial arts".   by the mid 80's i was teaching classes in rockford il.  while i did teach publicly for about a year,  i preferred teaching privately.     
     from the time i was ten till i was eighteen,  i collected over 300 books and over 300 magazines on martial arts.  sadly,  these materials got destroyed in a fire some years ago.  my collection now ranges from just over 200 books and about 150 magazines.  i also have a large library of video materials as well on various arts.   it is my personal opinion that one major lack in the martial arts has always been the study of the history and development of the arts in general.  most black belts i have met over the years barely know their own arts,  let alone the other arts that exist.  
     in the past 9 years i have suffered some injuries which have set my training back.  in 2000,  just after a seminar with tim tackett at the jkd extreme academy in west palm beach fl,  i was involved in a car accident which left me with two herniated discs in my neck.   i didnt think i would be able to practice martial arts again and had to drop out of classes.  three years later i moved here to illinois and by 2004 had developed great pain in my right big toe joint.  it was determined to be a bone spur.  the doctor gave me options and i elected to have surgery to remove the spur and have my toe fused.  at the time i didnt realize what this meant to my training.  it eliminated my ability to use my right foot for any impact.  and i am right handed.  and being primarily a jkd person,  my right side is forward.  i lost my main kicking tool.  determined not to give up i joined an isshin ryu karate class here in town.  i trained for several months until the pain in my foot got too bad.  and i injured my right shoulder in class during a breakfall exercise.   back to the doctor who determined that my toe didnt fuse and the metal plate he put in broke.  another surgery and a year later my foot has healed.  my shoulder is holding its own and i have started back to my own training,  trying to learn what my limitations are now.   
    i have begun teaching my neighbor who has long been interested in martial arts and i have started working out again with light weights and the ab lounge machine.  coming back after so much time out is difficult but worth the time.   
    the martial arts has always been my first love.  i am an artist as well,  working in pencil, pen and ink,  pen,  charcoal, and acrylic paint and airbrush.  i prefer to do figure and portrait work but also enjoy learning skills that will help me to do landscapes and animal paintings.  i play guitar as a hobby,  i write short stories for fun and enjoy the computer.  i have way too many hobbies and interests and not enough time of the day to pursue them.  
    ive spent the past few days reading various posts here on martial talk and think that it is great to have so many different styles of martial arts represented here.   i hope to make some new friends here and chat with others and learn more about martial arts,  while being able to share something from my background.  
    i belong to two other forums and would like to say from the beginning that i believe everyone has a right to their own opinion.  i think we should be courteous to one another here, as in life,  and if i ever accidentally offend anyone with my ideas,  please write to me here and i will apologize to you personally and publicly.   i dont think it is  necessary to belittle others because they dont believe the way i believe.   
    thank you for your time and i am looking forward to exciting posts and discussions.


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## seasoned (Dec 22, 2009)

Welcome aboard Kevin. I enjoyed reading of your adventures. It looks like you have a lot to offer. I hope to see you around on this site. Enjoy.


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## khand50 (Dec 22, 2009)

thank you seasoned.
   i have a very open mind to all martial arts as i have learned from so many.  among my favorite are the filipino arts.   my interest in them started about 1973 or 74,  because of dan inosanto.  since then i have gotten to attend two seminars with dan,  one in chicago at the degerberg academy and later in miami,  hosted by dwight woods.  dwight was a regular at our sdma academy in west palm beach.  he and eddie were friends.   the late bo sayoc often visited our school as well,  with several of his students.  his son chris did a seminar there.  grandmaster d. canete and guro dong cuesta also did seminars at our school.  i attended probably seven or more seminars in one year.   while browsing through older posts here last night i saw another friend mentioned.   victor rivera of wellington, florida.   he was a fellow student at the sdma academy.   later he went on to teach.  
   because i have been open to many styles,  i have met some pretty decent people along the way.   and i have learned some interesting things.  i think of myself as a perpetual student.   always learning and growing.   when i teach i dont like to try to be anything but what i am,  a person who enjoys martial arts and likes to share with others what i have learned.  and to learn from others as well.  that is the true joy of what i have gotten out of the years of training.   
    when i figure out how to navigate this site,  ill add some photos and things for others to see.   have a great day.  kevin


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## Steve (Dec 22, 2009)

Welcome.  Have fun.


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## bluekey88 (Dec 22, 2009)

Welcome!


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## SahBumNimRush (Dec 22, 2009)

Welcome to Martial Talk!  Who did you train under for shorei ryu?  When I was in school in Chicago, a classmate of mine had studied shorei ryu under a Sensei Sharky (sp?).  It was great to have someone from similar traditional ma background to train with.  I am a 5th dan in Moo Duk Kwan Tae Kwon Do, and it was one of my first experiences training with a martial artist outside of traditional tkd that had very similar roots of techniques.  

It is interesting to see how people take their experiences in different directions though.  Mike Chatteratubut (again sp?) was one of Sensei Sharky's students and he was one of the "founders" of XMA (extreme martial arts), which, according to my classmate was definitely not anything close to what Sharky taught at his Shorei Ryu Dojo.  

But I digress, WELCOME TO MARTIAL TALK!


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## khand50 (Dec 22, 2009)

i trained with a guy in moline il named jesse mills.  he was a second dan judo and a first dan shorei ryu.   my high school gym teacher had been teaching judo at the school here in princeton il,  and i joined the judo club.   i knew most of the terminology and throws at the time, even though i was self taught.  taking judo and wrestling for four years in high school helped my ground work back then.  every friday night,  we drove over to moline and my teacher would drop me off for 1 1/2 hours of shorei ryu karate and then come back where we would then do 1 1/2 hours of judo.  let me tell you,  every saturday morning i woke up sore!  ha ha.  but it was fun.  i was about sixteen.  after about four or five months of this i dropped the class because i didnt like the politics of the school.  i felt the instructor was too close-minded as well.  by this time i had been training in martial arts for six years.  i continued on later with tae kwon do classes offered at the local community college,  not far from here.  
   i have always liked tang soo do.  it is an art that i enjoyed reading about over the years.  it has roots older than tae kwon do, as far as i remember reading.  and few people seem to realize it was the art that chuck norris studied after he gave up judo.   most people probably assume he studied tae kwon do.  i liked tang soo do because they were more balanced with hands and feet.  
    thanks to everyone for welcoming me so far.  i enjoy reading about people's backgrounds.  i also like hearing about discoveries others make regarding martial arts and its structure.   and personal growth stories are always nice to hear as well.


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## khand50 (Dec 22, 2009)

i guess i should have stopped to re-read your post before i mentioned tang soo do.  i did read that you were in moo duk kwan,  but tang soo do came to mind for some reason when i started reading.  i dont know why.  it might have something to do with two of my kids coming into my room to bug me because they are bored since there isnt any school right now....lol.   one of the kwans that i studied in high school was ji do kwan tae kwon do.  my instructor was a 7th dan from korea.  his name was yun sam ko.  he was an awesome martial artist and a good friend.  he used to pick me up on weekends and take me with him on family outings.  when he promoted me to green belt he stopped by my house and came in to give me the belt.  we sat in my room talking for almost an hour while his car was parked in a no parking spot outside,  running.  he asked to borrow one of my many books on self defense techniques so i gave him one to keep.  he said he wanted to brush up on some things!  what a humble guy.  i dont know whatever happened to him.


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## stickarts (Dec 22, 2009)

Welcome!


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## khand50 (Dec 22, 2009)

thank you stickarts.  i just jumped onto your homepage for a moment.  grandmaster remy presas' first book, modern arnis, inspired me to investigate the filipino arts,  along with dan inosanto's book,  filipino martial arts,  when it first came out.  the information found in both books helped me greatly when there was no other information out there.   dan and richard bustillo published articles in the magazines back in the seventies and i read those.  dan actually had a super 8 video of himself doing the filipino arts offered through the mags way back then.  i never ordered it, although now i wish i would have.  it would have helped me so much.  ive always said,  if i had to only choose one nationality of martial arts to study, it would be the filipino arts.  thankfully,  i dont have to make that decision!   im happy to have joined martial talk.  it is really nice to see such a diversity of information offered on here.


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## SahBumNimRush (Dec 22, 2009)

"i guess i should have stopped to re-read your post before i mentioned tang soo do. i did read that you were in moo duk kwan, but tang soo do came to mind for some reason when i started reading."

There are people that would strongly disagree with me, BUT tang soo do is what the Moo Duk Kwan teaches. Because of politics and symantics, my kwan jang nim says we practice Moo Duk Kwan TKD, but we do all the traditional tang soo do forms (ki cho hyungs, pyung ahn hyungs, bassai, nai hanchi hyungs, jindo, kang song kun.. .), which are all, incidentally, Japanese in origin anyway.

He broke away from Hwang Kee (founder of the Moo Duk Kwan) during the Korean War, and later moved to the U.S. and opened his school here in WV. Therefore, we do not practice the forms Hwang Kee created later (under the name Soo Bahk Do), i.e. Yuk Rho, Oh Sip Sa Bo.. .

I think some people get too hung up on the name of the art, and the purity of the art.. . 

ANYWAY, WELCOME TO MARTIAL TALK!


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## SahBumNimRush (Dec 22, 2009)

Yes, Jae Chul Shin taught Chuck Norris Moo Duk Kwan Tang Soo Do, after "Carlos Norris" had a hard time continuing in Judo (due to injury) while stationed in Korea.


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## khand50 (Dec 22, 2009)

ha ha,  i thought moo duk kwan was tang soo do in my mind.  i have read so many histories over the years sometimes it gets a little jumbled.  one of the things i have always loved is the original black piping on the dobok.  a friend of mine actually bought one of those uniforms back in the seventies and eventually gave it to me.  
i believe chuck broke his arm,  if i remember right.  something to that effect.  i know he was a brown belt in judo,  from what  i read.   he studied in korea while stationed in the air force.  i always liked chuck.  even though he took alot of flak for not being much of an actor when he started movies.  
thanks for the input on moo duk kwan.  it makes me miss all the books i used to have.  i would sit and read for hours, while on the floor,  doing the chinese splits.  good way to stretch out...lol.  have a great day.   kevin


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## SahBumNimRush (Dec 22, 2009)

khand50 said:


> one of the things i have always loved is the original black piping on the dobok.


 
The trimming of the doboks of the Moo Duk Kwan traditionally were trimmed at all ranks, even the gups.. . It was an homage to the Hwa Rang.  Since they were revered as superior officers/warriors, we trim our doboks to set ourselves apart as "superior" martial artists.  I AM NOT SUGGESTING I BELIEVE WE ARE BETTER THAN EVERYONE ELSE.  It's just what the tradition is behind the trimming.  My Kwan Jang Nim likened it to graduating from west point versus enlisting.. .


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## khand50 (Dec 23, 2009)

i remember reading about the hwa rang.  they were highly revered.  like the samurai class of korea.   they were an elite warrior class.  how does that tie in with the art of hwa rang do?  the lee brothers, back in the seventies, were quite amazing.  i remember a psychic investigation magazine that came out which detailed their biofeedback while doing things like the hanging water bucket from a needle in the neck...getting run over by a jeep across the stomach....things like that.  but what i really liked was the fact that they were involved with weapons training,  which has always fascinated me.  it was one of the drawbacks to the tae kwon do systems available here in the small towns of illinois.   i always wanted more weapons training.   do you practice any sword or other weapons in your moo duk kwan?


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## SahBumNimRush (Dec 23, 2009)

I do not know from personal experience, but I have heard from many people that the art of Hwa Rang Do has nothing to do with the original Hwa Rang.  The Lee brothers capitalized on a revered name and used it as a spring board for their style.  I honestly know very little about Hwa Rang Do the martial art.  

We do not teach weapons other than the Jang Bong (long staff) in my Moo Duk Kwan school.  However, it is not offered to everyone in our school.  Taught as a reward, so to speak, for hard working students.  We do teach knife self-defense at the black belt level.  

I have ALWAYS wanted to learn a sword art, and I am using MT as a sounding board to learn more about it!  So far it has been enlightening, unfortunately you can only learn so much from words.  I wish there was something around here in WV that offered such things.


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## khand50 (Dec 23, 2009)

hwa rang do is an art that could be likened to the chinese kung fu of korea.  the applications of  chin na can be seen in their self defense techniques.  this may possible have been derived from the grappling arts of korea, such as hapkido or kuk sool wan.  the lee brothers practiced with weapons that were bladed,  wooden, and flexible,  such as belts or sashes,  again  not unlike many northern chinese kung fu systems that i have read about over the years.  they are big on chi development.   the style seems a bit flashy but it is interesting to watch.   ive seen them in videos performing their art.  other than that i dont remember a whole lot about it.  ive read so many accounts of different arts over the years but lost all my original reading materials in a fire.  i miss the many books and magazines i had collected in the first eight years of my study of the  arts.  thanks for your input here.  ive been on two other forums for the past couple years that deal mainly with jkd and it is nice to talk to other martial artists about the arts i have studied and the ones i havent.  i feel less pigeon-holed this way...lol.   
have you considered getting some videos on the sword and experimenting with your own abilities?   ive used videos and books and magazines to research other arts for years.  they do not replace having an instructor but they do come in handy for getting some of the basics down, as well as learning history and philosophy of the arts,  which helps to prepare you for when you do actually get to train with someone.  good luck with your search.


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## SahBumNimRush (Dec 23, 2009)

Yes, I actually started a discussion about that on the general sword forum the other day.  I've been getting alot of info there!  

i.e. how to choose a sword for your needs, etc.. . I don't really have the money to spare right now on books or blades, but there is a lot of info on here, and many knowledgible people.  So I'm exploiting that right now, haha.  

I will someday begin serious training in some sword arts though, it is something I've always been interested in doing.  

Also I agree, MT site is all encompassing, and generally low ego (which is hard to come by as far as martial arts forums go.. .).  I look forward to seeing you on the discussions!


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## khand50 (Dec 23, 2009)

there are other sources for videos and such.  for example, netflix has some martial arts videos available.  i use them alot for movies in general.  www.bushidodvd.com is another source.  it is a martial arts rental site.  they are about 19.99 a month to rent dvd's.  they are west coast,  i believe in oregon.  i used them for a time but am currently looking for a job so havent been able to afford them.  a great source though for instructional dvd's.   
google books is another possible source for you to read about other arts as well.  they have whole magazines printed there also.  quite a few black belt magazines i noticed.  
i consider myself a student of all martial arts.  every art is fascinating to me in some way or another.  that is  why i started collecting the books and magazines early on.  the more i read the more i wanted to read.  
when i trained last year in the isshin ryu class,  i purchased nearly every isshin ryu book available.  then i started investigating the kata they taught,  and the origins of okinawan karate.  my research led me to southern china,  where okinawan karate originated.  much of the okinawan systems seemed to have come from the white crane system in the fukien province.  alot of exchange went on between the two.  i went to the class primarily to meet other martial artists but none of the students or the instructor seemed to care to talk about martial arts or even their own art.   doesnt that seem weird to you?  
so thankfully there are forums like this one where you can meet people and discuss other arts or complain about the state of the arts...lol.  in general.  so thanks again for your input.  the best thing about a forum like this is to hear about other people's experiences.  its like having a living magazine....


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## SahBumNimRush (Dec 23, 2009)

I have read about the influence of Korean, Okinawan and Japanese arts by the White Crane style of Fukien China.  However, I honestly don't know much about that style.  I looked for a time for resources about it, but couldn't come up with much.  I need to delve further.  I have read that Bassai and Jinto are forms supposedly originating from this style.


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## Xue Sheng (Dec 23, 2009)

Welcome to MT


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## Tensei85 (Dec 24, 2009)

Welcome to MT Khand!

So what is Kang Nei Chin? Is it a form of Qi Gong practice or do you have any info on it?


Thanks,


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## khand50 (Dec 24, 2009)

kang nei chin is a chinese art that was being taught by soke rod sachornoski in the eighties while he lived in rockford il.  i trained for several months in the art and it was mostly form based.   soke sachornoski is famous for his combat ki program,  which i never got involved with.  he did promote me to 1st dan in oikiru ryu goshin jitsu for my knowledge of martial arts.  i was teaching at a local ywca and had studied martial arts since 1969.  i didnt have an "official" black belt from any particular school,  so soke gave me the rank in goshin jitsu while having dinner at his house,  explaining to me that he felt i had earned the rank on my own merit from the knowledge and abilities i possessed at the time.  plus,  he didnt want anyone in his organization teaching a public class without black belt ranking.  i took this as an honor,  to be recognized for my own efforts.  eh explained that  goshin jitsu was an open system and that i could teach whatever i wanted.   we talked often and i visited his house many times during that year.   i had been two months away from achieving black belt in tae kwon do and was an assistant instructor in another chinese kung fu school before i met him.  i dont remember much about the kang nei chin class,  except that i had been promoted to blue sash,  which was the first rank.  i just remember the forms were long....


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## MasterWright (Dec 25, 2009)

Welcome to MT!


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## just2kicku (Jan 1, 2010)

Welcome to MT, I look to forward to your posts'! Enjoy!


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## stone_dragone (Jan 1, 2010)

Greetings and welcome to MT!


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## ldb (Jan 27, 2011)

Could you provide any details regarding your time in Bloomington and your instruction at the Shao Lama Academy?


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## Yondanchris (Jan 27, 2011)

Welcome to MT! Thanks for sharing your journey, im sure you will be a valuable addition to the knowledge cumulatively collected here at MT!


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## Kacey (Jan 29, 2011)

Welcome!


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