# How does the study of other arts influence your hapkido



## Daniel Sullivan (Jan 20, 2009)

If hapkido is your only unarmed martial art, then this won't apply to you, but if you are like me and practice another martial art, my question is this:  How does that art or other arts influence your hapkido?

For example, I practice taekwondo and the strikes that cross over from TKD to hapkido I find that I execute them as I have in taekwondo.  This is not a complaint or a worry, just an obsevation. 

Not being a particularly advanced hapkidoin (I just took my oh-geub test last Friday), it could be that I don't see where this would be either problematic, beneficial, or neither.  But I wanted to collect some observations from others regarding the subject.

Thank you,

Daniel


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## Brad Dunne (Jan 20, 2009)

In my estimation, there is no problem, but for Hapkido players there seems to be. Since you are a TKD'ist and your execution is TKD'ish, has anyone in your Hapkido training said anything about it? I know that the Hapkido folks feel their different from TKD, with their kicking, but I'm hard pressed to see all that big a difference that would stand out so greatly.  Master Fariborz Azhakh is an acknowledged Hapkido instructor and he also is ranked in TKD, his first discipline if I remember correctly. In a discussion with some Hapkidoin in the past, it was pointed out that his kicks are very much TKD'ish, but he was certified thru the same organization as the folk(s) debating the issue and they had no response to that positioning. So in my opinion, if what he did/does was good enough for certification in a major HKD organization, then it should be good enough for you and me.


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## Daniel Sullivan (Jan 20, 2009)

Nobody has said anything, but since hapkido was only introduced into the curriculum at our dojang in February of 2008, and I was the first of hapkido student at the Gaithersburg school, I'm the highest ranking student in the school.  Our Frederick school has inherited hapkido yudanja, but I sadly do not have the opportunity to interract with them on anything more than a limited basis.  

So far, my GM has said that he is happy with what he sees in my performance at my current level.  Given that he was a hapkido instructor in the ROK special forces, I have no reason to question his opinion.

I appreciate the feedback.

Daniel


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## terrylamar (Jan 20, 2009)

When attending the University of Texas my major was Spanish and my minor was German.  I never had a problem mixing the two languages.

I don't have a problem mixing the different techniques from Hapkido and Taekwondo.

This does raise the question, which Taekwondo are you asking about.  My school is WTF style, while we spar, we adhere to the rules of that game.  

At other times we may simulate a fight, wherein, everything goes, no rules.  Of course there are rules, we don't bite, hit or kick to the groin, excute neck cranks, etc.  We do simulate them, we just don't execute them.  During this practice we don't care where our technique comes from, so a Hapkido technique could be used.

I guess the biggest crossover occurs when I teach the Taekwondo classes and then have a Hapkido class afterwards.  I either wear my Hapkido uniform, favored, or my Taekwondo uniform to the other class.

I have to make sure the Taekwondo uniform doesn't get torn during Hapkido practice.

Essentially, I teach a pure Taekwondo class with the exception of select Hapkido techniques for the self defense part and my Hapkido classes are pure Hapkido.  Well, Combat Hapkido, with Traditional Hapkido included.


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## searcher (Jan 20, 2009)

I will let you know how it blends with my previous training.   Once I start training in HKD next month, if all goes well.


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## matt.m (Jan 21, 2009)

The application of Tae Kwon Do and Hapkido are different.  Just as the application of Hapkido and Judo are different.  For instance, when I teach Judo I teach it the Judo way, in hapkido I do the throws the hapkido way.  Reps are the most important aspect, you must do them.


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## Daniel Sullivan (Jan 29, 2009)

terrylamar said:


> This does raise the question, which Taekwondo are you asking about. My school is WTF style, while we spar, we adhere to the rules of that game.
> 
> At other times we may simulate a fight, wherein, everything goes, no rules. Of course there are rules, we don't bite, hit or kick to the groin, excute neck cranks, etc. We do simulate them, we just don't execute them. During this practice we don't care where our technique comes from, so a Hapkido technique could be used.


We are a KKW/WTF school, so our kicks and strikes generate power with hip twist.  We don't do tournament style sparring in our hapkido class, though in our taekwondo class, the SD portion is markedly different from the WTF style sparring that we do.

I was thinking less of the big obvious differences, such as sparring for points, and more of the execution of individual techniques that are common to many arts, but which have subtle differences in execution from art to art.  Kicks, punches, blocks, throws, and locks and such.



terrylamar said:


> I guess the biggest crossover occurs when I teach the Taekwondo classes and then have a Hapkido class afterwards. I either wear my Hapkido uniform, favored, or my Taekwondo uniform to the other class.
> 
> I have to make sure the Taekwondo uniform doesn't get torn during Hapkido practice.


Our hapkido doboks are the Jidokwan diamond patern style and if I have hapkido either before or after TKD, I simply wear that dobok for both.  We have our GM's blessing for that.



terrylamar said:


> Essentially, I teach a pure Taekwondo class with the exception of select Hapkido techniques for the self defense part and my Hapkido classes are pure Hapkido. Well, Combat Hapkido, with Traditional Hapkido included.


Our adult taekwondo class is divided into two sparring nights, two SD/poomsae nights, and a fifth that I am not familiar with because I don't train that night.  Saturday morning is the family class, which I teach.  It is mostly children and I stick to forms, drills, and sparring depending on the mix of kids. 

Our adult TKD classes have a fairly heavy duty SD portion that involves one and two step sparring and has techniques that are a combination of blocks, strikes, and grapples, all of which culminate in the incapacatation of the opponent via some sort of finishing move or grapple to keep them in place, presumably until the cops arrive.

Daniel


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## H Whalen (Feb 3, 2009)

Brad Dunne said:


> In my estimation, there is no problem, but for Hapkido players there seems to be. Since you are a TKD'ist and your execution is TKD'ish, has anyone in your Hapkido training said anything about it? I know that the Hapkido folks feel their different from TKD, with their kicking, but I'm hard pressed to see all that big a difference that would stand out so greatly.  Master Fariborz Azhakh is an acknowledged Hapkido instructor and he also is ranked in TKD, his first discipline if I remember correctly. In a discussion with some Hapkidoin in the past, it was pointed out that his kicks are very much TKD'ish, but he was certified thru the same organization as the folk(s) debating the issue and they had no response to that positioning. So in my opinion, if what he did/does was good enough for certification in a major HKD organization, then it should be good enough for you and me.




I know I am getting a little older but I seem to recall many years ago ,reading that Farbiorz Azhakh  was a Black Belt in Shotokan and he then mixed with his Hapkido that he learned from his teacher Steve Sexton whom If I recall was an early Black Belt of Lee,jung Bai before he relocated to VA


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## matt.m (Feb 28, 2009)

I like what Brad said about the certification.  It should be good enough for me and you stuff.  However, I know I am going to have a bunch of BB's shot at me for this but.......

When Gen. Choi began ITF TKD he borrowed most of hapkido's kicking, period end of story.  I don't wanna hear about all this TaeKyon stuff.  It is as much a farytale as Immortals and "The Quickening" and I don't believe in Peter Pan, Frankenstein, or Superman for that matter either.

However, hapkido has 12 kicks that Tae Kwon Do doesn't have in it's cirriculum at all.  With that being said, in MSK watch a hapkidoan do a dynamic side kick and watch a tae kwon doan perform a sparring side kick.  That is all I am saying, plus the difference is twist kick is amazing.

I could go on but there is no need to.  So when an organization certifies a person doing "Hapkido" kicking then well, they should for it is harder.  The muscle are trained differently and the physiology and kinesology is a bit different.  To an utrained eye there isn't much difference in the application of a body drop and an outerwinding throw but there is a ton of difference.

But who am I to say I am not the head of anything but my Judo class.


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## hapkidonet (Mar 14, 2009)

Good question. I have studied Hapkido and (to a lesser degree) Pentcak Silat. It blew my mind how well they meshed. Silat is somewhat more brutal in its approach, and focuses more on ultra-close range fighting, but it complements my Hapkido so well. Sometimes my Hapkido teacher would show me something that fit into my Hapkido techniques as if it was meant to be there.

Someday I'd like to master both arts and blend them. Yes, I'm sure I'll get some criticism for that comment


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## Daniel Sullivan (Mar 14, 2009)

hapkidonet said:


> Someday I'd like to master both arts and blend them. Yes, I'm sure I'll get some criticism for that comment


Not from me. Mastery and blending have been done for centuries. Its only now that we want everything to fit into nice categories that people suddenly think its taboo.

Most styles that we consider to be "Traditional" were just the blend of what the founder learned and mastered. Since the founder's system stood the test of time, it is well respected.

Go for it. If it is really good, open a school near me.

Daniel


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## MrBigglesworth (May 7, 2009)

I come from an Aikido background, and while the human body moves the same way, I find the application or focus behind a technique is often different.
I'm only new to Hapkido, but I can borrow techniques or insights from my Aikido to help me pick up the Hapkido locks and takedowns more easily. But I have to be careful not to look at a particular lock or throw as the same to an Aikido one just because it looks similar.

That said, it helps me not one little bit with my kicking, which sucks pretty hard at the moment. ;-)


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## zDom (May 8, 2009)

Side note, I know Judo practitioners are "players" because Judo is a sport.

I don't think "players" is an appropriate description for those who train hapkido. If we are playing a game (be it Judo, point sparring or WTF sparring), it is only a means to improving our combat ability.

"Hapkido" that has competition as its goal and objective in training is, in my opinion, no longer hapkido.


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## Daniel Sullivan (May 8, 2009)

I really despise the application of the word, 'player' to any martial art.  I could be wrong, but I think this began with taekwondo and its involvement in the dreaded Olympics.

Funny, but nobody calls a boxer or a wrestler a player.  Why denigrate an art by reducing one's self to the level of a high school ball sport participant?

Daniel


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## dancingalone (May 9, 2009)

I'm no linguist, Daniel (It would be nice if Exile interjected but I haven't seen him on the boards for a bit), but perhaps you are interjecting your American thought framework into it too much?  I've also heard CMA people talking about 'running' or 'playing' their forms.  It didn't seem like they thought there was a negative connotation to the terms.


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## dortiz (May 9, 2009)

When I think "Hapkido players" I have visions of really talented folks. To me that term came from the way they juggle the person around and make it look like its a game. I honestly see the term as a compliment.

Dave O.


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## goingd (May 17, 2009)

Every style I study influences the others. My master always points out that everything physical is relative. After studying Kenpo for close to a year I better understood Taekwondo. After studying Taekwondo more in depth I better understood Hapkido. When it comes to this I bring up Jackie Chan. He's mainly a movie star but he certainly knows his way around a kick and a punch. After studying Kung Fu for so long he experimented with Taekwondo and Hapkido, and made the decision that all styles are the same. I always agreed but didn't understand too well until recently.
What separates styles is the major details we see on the outside. But when you boil down a style to the countless smaller details, you see that they are identical. Sometimes people spend too much time considering what makes every style so different, and not nearly enough looking for what connects them and makes them the same.

Just my two and a half cents. ^~^


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