# Do we have any idea what Tegumi may have looked like?



## Makalakumu (Jan 27, 2009)

Do we have any idea what Tegumi may have looked like?  If so, what did it look like?  What are its origins?


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## Makalakumu (Jan 27, 2009)

Here's the wiki entry on Tegumi.



> According to Sh&#333;shin Nagamine, in his "Tales of Okinawa's Great Masters", there are no accurate historical documents surrounding the origins of grappling in Okinawa. Like most other forms of wrestling it seems that tegumi evolved from a primitive form of grappling self defense, which was constantly being adapted and enhanced as it was exposed to outside influences.
> 
> It is believed by some, Sh&#333;shin Nagamine-sensei included, that tegumi was probably the original form of fighting in Okinawa and, as it was enhanced by striking and kicking techniques imported from China, became the progenitor of Te, which is the foundation of modern karate.
> 
> ...


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## Makalakumu (Jan 27, 2009)

Iain Abernethy writes this about Tegumi.

http://www.iainabernethy.com/articles/article_12.asp



> Tegumi (grappling hands) was the term used to describe the grappling aspect of old style karate. Tegumi is also used to describe an indigenous style of wrestling practised in Okinawa. It is believed that the native wrestling art of Tegumi, along with the Kempo systems brought to Okinawa by the Chinese, were forerunners of the art that eventually became known as karate. Some say that this is reflected in the name chosen for the art. Karate (which could also be pronounced as "to-de") was made up of two characters, the first meaning China, to represent the Chinese Kempo influence, and Te meaning hand, to represent the Tegumi (grappling) influence. As an aside, a differing initial character is used today for Kara which means Empty  different meaning but pronounced the same; like which & witch  but originally the character for China was used.



Here's more detail.



> There are various sub-divisions of Grappling / Tegumi; Tuidi (Grabbing), Nage-Waza (Throws & Takedowns), Kansetsu-Waza (Joint-Locks), Shime-waza (Chokes & Strangles), Ne-Waza (Ground-Fighting), etc. All of which can be found within the katas. If we study the katas to a sufficient depth, we can begin to employ these highly potent methods in our everyday training such that we will not be at a total loss if the fight goes to close-range (as it nearly always does!).
> 
> Many Tegumi techniques are fairly brutal. A simple and very effective grappling method can be found within Seishan / Hangetsu kata. Youll recognise the technique demonstrated in the picture that accompanies this article as the application of the inward pull prior to the first 180-degree turn. The index fingers are inserted into the opponents mouth and pulled apart (commonly called fish-hooking). It is important to keep sufficient tension in the opponents cheeks such that they are unable to turn the head and bite the fingers. If I were to pull strongly to the sides  as per the Shotokan version of the katas  I would cause severe damage to my opponents face. Obviously the use of this technique would only be justified in very extreme circumstances.


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## TimoS (Jan 30, 2009)

Don't really have any idea what tegumi might look like, except that apparently it never was very well structured, at least not the way that kata are. For example, Motobu had his "12 kumite" and those don't seem excessively brutal to me. 

However, I do have an idea that Abernathy is most certainly wrong on at least one issue in that article. Kyan's Seisan does not contain anything like the technique Abernathy describes in the article, so if the story of Kyan's encounter with the judoka is true and not yet another case of a good story taking on a life of it's own, he most certainly did not take that technique from Seisan. 

In fact, about the only Seisan that contains that move is the Shotokan Hangetsu (and also Wado Seishan, but Ohtsuka learned it from Funakoshi, so no surprise there) and as is quite well known, Shotokan kata have been really heavily modified from their original versions.

Here are three versions of Seisan and I can't see anything even remotely similar to the technique Abernathy describes in any of these kata

Kyan's Seisan
Goju Seisan
Uechi Seisan


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## Andrew Green (Jan 30, 2009)

I think the number of people that have made stuff up to suit their needs has blurred much of the history.

"Tegumi (grappling hands) "

No...  if you flip the 2 characters you get "kumite".

"Grappling / Tegumi; Tuidi (Grabbing), "

I'm not positive, but I am quite sure that "tegumi" and "tuidi" are the same word, different dialects.  One is not a part of the other, and they have the same meaning.

One thing most cultures have in common if you look for it, is some form of folkstyle wrestling.  It is almost a universal sport.  tegumi was, as best I can tell, simply the Okinawan word for this.  Their particular form seems to be related to Sumo in some ways.  It was a folkstyle sport, requiring a belt which was used to control each other with a loose set of rules.  Not some ancient secret collection of nasty things to do to another person hidden in kata and lost for decades like some video tape salesmen would have us believe.


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## Makalakumu (Jan 30, 2009)

What do you think of the comments of Nagamine Sensei?  He wrote Tales of Okinawa's great masters long before the MMA craze.  It was just translated in 2000 by Patrick McCarthy.


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