# Philososphy, Student/Instructor



## RCastillo (Oct 12, 2003)

As with any organization, loyalty is important, but I wonder, what happens when an organization is so big, that the regular Instructor like me is just out there, no guidance, no communication, and is left on his own. Sure, I'm 48, 22 yrs of expereince, I know what to do, what's expected, but I've always felt that if you have a boss, they should look out for you as I would look out for my students. I do make the effort to go out and seek help when I need it, but I'd like to be more than just another number.

Am I expecting too much? Is this why people drift away to do their own thing?

Your ideas!

Thanx:asian:


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## arnisador (Oct 12, 2003)

It's fair to ask yourself, What do I get from my org.?

It may be a sense of belonging, an ability for your students to study the same curriculum if they move, teaching materials, publicity, etc. But I think you should also get help staying on top of your game--and at your stage, I imagine you're looking for a more visible role in the org. Do they have regional directors or the like?

It sounds like you don't so much have a need they're not meeting as that you feel it's not a two-way street.


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## RCastillo (Oct 12, 2003)

> _Originally posted by arnisador _
> *It's fair to ask yourself, What do I get from my org.?
> 
> It may be a sense of belonging, an ability for your students to study the same curriculum if they move, teaching materials, publicity, etc. But I think you should also get help staying on top of your game--and at your stage, I imagine you're looking for a more visible role in the org. Do they have regional directors or the like?
> ...



No, no regional directors, and as many Tracy people that we have in the state, we're not cohesive. Two yrs ago I got on a letter wrting campaign to try to connect us  in Texas, and only got a halfway response from one person. We have people that do their own thing, and that's what brings it down, I think. I am staying active, keeping up with the material, and searching others out to do so. I'll keep working regardless of what happens, but I miss the family type atmosphere.:asian:


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## Rich Parsons (Oct 12, 2003)

Ricardo,

I was going to first post, that maybe the Organization though highly of you that they expected you to survive on your own, and to teach others and be a leader / master of the art. (* Note the term Master is mine and I do not know if the title is Ricardo's or not. I have never seen him use it. *)

Yet, after your second post, I see that things are ad hoc and willie nillie. Maybe it is you who see this flaw and coudl organize a phone conference? between the family?

Wishing you the best (* Even in Math  *)
:asian:


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## Goldendragon7 (Oct 24, 2003)

> _Originally posted by RCastillo _*
> As with any organization, loyalty is important, but when there is, no guidance, no communication, and one is left on his own to do what's expected, I've always felt that if you have a boss, they should look out for you as I would look out for my students, but I'd like to be more than just another number. Is this why people drift away to do their own thing? Thanx:asian:
> *




I hear ya, and sympathize with you.  Yes, you have tried to gather a support group in your area among other efforts with seemingly little or no results for your efforts.  Sad.

Yes, I believe this is one very good reason to drift away and do your own thing or look elsewhere  for a home.  Good luck.

:asian:


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## don bohrer (Oct 24, 2003)

RCastillo,

I have the same concerns with TRACO. I do not feel HQ does enough to help individual schools. We have many nice people one meeting a year and closed tournaments each year, but nothing that really pulls us together. I have witnessed several struggling instructors that could have really used help and advice running their schools. There seems to be no value placed on putting time, energy, and money back into the product. 


don


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## crump3R (Dec 15, 2003)

I feel that martial arts orgaanizations are after the  growth and that is good. but we must remember that if support is important. We all need support from somewhere. So i agree . That instructors should encourage and support students and organizations should aleast try their best to keep the team together as much as possible.

Good Luck to my brothers and sisters in the arts.


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## loki09789 (Dec 15, 2003)

This discussion crosses alot of organizations.  I have seen this in Kenpo, Escrima/Arnis and Traditional Kung Fu/Karate org.'s.  My question is this:  What specific types of support or guide lines are people in an organization looking for? And, based on the first answer, what type of system of administrative checks would make that a success.

Most of the groups that exist now do some basic things:

Standardize a ranking system
Schedule camps/seminars/competitons that you get notified about
free t-shirts

How comprehensive is the business training and support most of these groups offer for the instructor/owner?

If you invest in a Tim Hortons or McDonalds, the product is standardized, but you get market, material and procedural training and support as well.

Now, I am not a fan of "McKarate" arts, but I do think that if you are investing into an organization you deserve support, loyalty and quality of character from all parties.

Paul Martin


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## Old Fat Kenpoka (Dec 15, 2003)

Free T-shirts!!! 

Loki:  Sounds like your organization is way ahead of everyone else's.


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## Michael Billings (Dec 15, 2003)

I have been in both at various times in my career.  At least 4 large Associations, or 5, or 7 if you count Shotokan and Taekwondo.

I definitly opt for the one that includes it's instructors as part of the Family.  The higher the heads of any organization gets, the more insulated they are by the group they are the most familiar with, i.e. those senior instructors that have been with them, in a close decision making role, for the longest.  We are all more comfortable with the people we have known the longest, but you have to consider the number of Shodans come and gone, do we get invested in them (if we are a 8th, 9th, 10th?)  Nidans, there are still hundreds, if not thousands over the last 40 years of promotions, many by people you have not seen in years.  Should they know every 3rd degree, probably when the organization was smaller, they did.  You do seminars, camps, tests, every weekend, for 30 or 40 years and see how close you feel to who?

I am not defending ... I DO NOT LIKE IT AT ALL!!!  But a certain amount of autonomy is given up in "joining" together in a closer group.  Does the one organizing it get more prestige, power or influence?  Would others be threatened or have to give up some of their own little ways of doing things if you came together.  

I know if you brought a unified Texas group to Mr. Tracy, you personally would get a lot more attention ... that is just the way it works.  

It gets lonely out there doesn't it ... but the flip side is that you don't have anyone micromanaging or taking money out of your pocket.  It is all trade offs to me.  I personally have had to make some adjustments in my perceptions and attitudes in changing associations over the years.

YUK!

Oss,
-Michael:soapbox:


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## Old Fat Kenpoka (Dec 15, 2003)

Americans traditionally prefer to not blindly follow authority, to not give allegience to an absent monarch, and to not pay taxes to a distant government.

Americans traditionally prefer to elect their own leaders, attend the church of their choice, identify with the provincial culture, and govern locally.

These are the fundamental character traits that foster the independence of martial arts schools.   These are the traits that make it difficult for large national and international martial arts associations to maintain control over their constituent schools.  This is true in every martial art (except for maybe Judo) where multiple associations and independent operators are the norm.  

Judo may escape this fragmentation because of the importance of Olympic and other International competition and the resulting need for strong governance and consistent rules.


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## satans.barber (Dec 16, 2003)

An organisation doesn't necessarily have to be 'big' for this to happen, it's happened to our club (IMO) and there's only a handful of clubs in out orgnisation.

You just make the best our of what you've got don't you...nothing else for it!

Ian.


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## loki09789 (Dec 17, 2003)

I was really wondering what people expect/want from an organization.  Here are some things that I would expect from an organization:

Business training/guidance - 

I have 20 years of martial arts training experience, but very little business training in comparison.  I ran a commercial school for a while and learned most of what I did from other than fellow martial artists.  There are certain things specific for a martial arts/service business that I needed to know to avoid pitfalls.
I know that there are business strategists who do this, but it would be nice to have that kind of support linked to your system/art.

Rank guidelines-

I specify guidelines because I like a degree of independence so I can put my style/emphasis within a system.  I think there should be a core of required skills/techniques and some suggested drills and so on, but room for individualization.

Fraternity/Espirit de Corps

A sense of belonging isn't a bad thing as long as it doesn't mean blind, cultish loyalty.  I had no problem with it in the Marines because I was there to serve, but as a private citizen I am an associate/member who agrees to be a member and abide by there conditions of membership - subtle but major difference.

Crosstraining/fitness guidance -

I have been fitness oriented for a long time, but I know of many martial artist/instructors who don't have any exercise training outside of marital arts.  Maybe some material or training opportunities to beef up basic sports science, fitness training guidance so that we, in our desire for independence don't set up training that is poorly taught, sequenced or timed and cause injury.  

Professional instructor training-
I would like to have some material available from within my art that provides training on instruction.  I have a degree in Education and my instructor is a professional instructor, not that there aren't some 'untrained' instructors who are excellent, but basic Educational/coaching guidelines would be helpful.  Any other coaching/instructional program for a sport or activity has requirements like this.  USA Hockey has coaching instruction that youth hockey organizations require adults to go through before they can lead a team of kids.

That's my basic laundry list.  I am not saying that these things don't exist now somewhere, just that these are the areas of support that would make it worth my time/money to join and organization.

Paul martin


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