# Is this true what Bruce Lee said?



## PhotonGuy

I heard that Bruce Lee once said he would lose in a fight against Mohammad Ali. He said, "Look at my hand, its a small Chinese hand, he'd kill me!" It doesn't sound like something Bruce Lee would say.


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## Tony Dismukes

PhotonGuy said:


> I heard that Bruce Lee once said he would lose in a fight against Mohammad Ali. He said, "Look at my hand, its a small Chinese hand, he'd kill me!" It doesn't sound like something Bruce Lee would say.



if you don't read it in a book authored by Lee, or in an interview with a reputable journalist, or reported by a close friend or family member, I would be very skeptical of any supposed Bruce Lee quotes you come across.

Bruce Lee was a big fan of Ali and studied his footwork, but I've never read the quote you mention.


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## jks9199

I don't know...  I can see it as a joke or off the cuff comment somewhere.  I'd suspect, though, that it would have been followed up by something like "so I'd have to kick him in the knee."

Can you point out the source, PhotonGuy?


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## drop bear

Makes sense though.Ali was a top heavyweight fighter.


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## PhotonGuy

Just because you're bigger than the other guy or because you've got bigger hands than the other guy doesn't mean you will beat them in a fight.


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## Dirty Dog

PhotonGuy said:


> Just because you're bigger than the other guy or because you've got bigger hands than the other guy doesn't mean you will beat them in a fight.



Perhaps not in the generic sense. 
However. When the heavyweight champion of the world hits someone who (although a gifted martial artist) is half his size and not even a professional fighter, you're not going to find many people foolish enough to bet on the little guy. 
You do know that there are very good reasons why fights are divided by the size of the fighter, right?


Sent from an old fashioned 300 baud acoustic modem by whistling into the handset. Really.


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## Xue Sheng

Never heard this before and not trying to say either way, but have you ever watched Ali throw punches when he was fighting, he has a heck of a reach and he is fast.

Watch the first part of this






First time I noticed it was, when I was a kid, and he was on Candid Camera, also after he retired and was diagnosed with Parkinson's he stood up and threw a few on the old Arsenio Hall show and got Arsenio to jump backwards over the couch and duck for cover, He was still fast and you could see the power still.

He was an impressive fighter.


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## Drose427

It could be possible. I can't remember where I read it, but I read somewhere that when asked if he really could beat Chuck Norris in a fight his response was something along the lines of, " Well I'm an actor and he's a professional fighter.."


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## Buka

Ali was one of a kind. I've been a huge fan since I was a kid. My guess about what Bruce Lee said probably had to do with good manners. 

Also, I don't remember which fight of Ali's this was, but at one of them Joe Lewis was sitting ringside. They had met before, but I don't know if it was a brief meeting or what. Anyway, as Ale was leaving the ring he joked at Lewis. Lewis promptly took him down and mounted him. Everyone freaked. It was broken up quickly. Lewis wasn't trying to hurt him, he just didn't take to being teased in public.
I would have loved to have seen that.


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## PhotonGuy

My source of this rumor about what Bruce Lee said was on a discussion board about Bruce Lee in IMDB.com As for Lewis taking down and mounting Ali, that sounds more like a Gracie thing. Joe Lewis was a kickboxer.


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## Buka

PhotonGuy said:


> My source of this rumor about what Bruce Lee said was on a discussion board about Bruce Lee in IMDB.com As for Lewis taking down and mounting Ali, that sounds more like a Gracie thing. Joe Lewis was a kickboxer.



Joe Lewis was a wee bit more than a kick boxer.


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## Transk53

Buka said:


> Joe Lewis was a wee bit more than a kick boxer.



Forgive me if I am being a little bit stupid here, but, is he disrespecting Joe Lewis??


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## Xue Sheng

Transk53 said:


> Forgive me if I am being a little bit stupid here, but, is he disrespecting Joe Lewis??



Buka...nope he's not, merely stating facts

Joe was an ex-marine, he got his black belt in Shorin-Ryu in Okinawa and he trained with Bruce Lee


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## Transk53

Xue Sheng said:


> Buka...nope he's not, merely stating facts
> 
> Joe was an ex-marine, he got his black belt in Shorin-Ryu in Okinawa and he trained with Bruce Lee



Meant towards Photon Guy and agreeing with Buka


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## Buka

I'm sure no disrespect was intended towards Lewis or anyone else. We just all be talkin'.


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## Transk53

Buka said:


> I'm sure no disrespect was intended towards Lewis or anyone else. We just all be talkin'.



Yeah no worries  Just figured that PhotonGuy was about to keep to script.


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## Reedone816

I read about bruce lee have high respect for ali that he watched ali fight video many-many times.
But no mention about his small hand though.
If I'm not mistaken it is in a bruce lee biography written by his karateka friend with the approval from lee wive.
I used to have the book years ago but one of my friend borrowed it and never return it.
And what unique about the book is that it tried to be as close to the fact, like the blurry wong jack man episode, the book told several angles and gives his most likely true scenario and saying that event as the transformation from a wc bruce to a legendary bruce.
And another one is the book try to potray bruce as a human with plus and minuses, especially about bruce emotional state when teaching and how bad he was when he was near his death.
Sent from my RM-943_apac_indonesia_207 using Tapatalk


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## Buka

Reedone816 said:


> I read about bruce lee have high respect for ali that he watched ali fight video many-many times.
> But no mention about his small hand though.
> If I'm not mistaken it is in a bruce lee biography written by his karateka friend with the approval from lee wive.
> I used to have the book years ago but one of my friend borrowed it and never return it.
> And what unique about the book is that it tried to be as close to the fact, like the blurry wong jack man episode, the book told several angles and gives his most likely true scenario and saying that event as the transformation from a wc bruce to a legendary bruce.
> And another one is the book try to potray bruce as a human with plus and minuses, especially about bruce emotional state when teaching and how bad he was when he was near his death.
> Sent from my RM-943_apac_indonesia_207 using Tapatalk



And Lee watched Ali's tapes inverted. Lee reportedly had a huge collection of fight films. This was long ago before computers and the VCR. Lee would set up the projector, sit the opposite way and watch it on a full length mirror so he could study Ali as a southpaw. He was way ahead of his time.


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## punisher73

I have read that statement before between Ali and Lee.  It wasn't Lee that said it though. It was in an interview with someone else asking who would have won the fight.  The person was a fighter who had trained with or knew Bruce Lee.  Right now, my memory escapes me who the interview was with though.


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## Marnetmar

Bruce was a fan of Ali but just going off of his personality type, I seriously doubt he said that.


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## elder999

Marnetmar said:


> Bruce was a fan of Ali but just going off of his personality type, I seriously doubt he said that.





			
				Bruce Lee said:
			
		

> I don't drink. I don't smoke, but I *do* use gum, because Fu Man chew...



Bruce Lee was a card. I can see him saying it as a joke, easily.

I can also see him being serious: Esquire magazine used to do a feature called "Actual Size," from time to time. It consisted of photos of things at their......wait for it........*actual size.* :lfao:

They did Ali's fist-this was back in the 70's......it pretty much took up the whole page-look it up.


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## PhotonGuy

Ali might've beaten Lee in the ring if they were fighting by the rules used in boxing, but not on the street. During his prime Ali did say that if he ever got into a street fight he would be in a lot of trouble.


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## Brian R. VanCise

I'm mostly curious Buka about someone saying Joe Lewis took down Ali and mounted him.  Curious where that came from as I have not heard it before.  Though having had the opportunity to train with Lewis a couple of times way back in the day I could see this happening.


*As to Ali vs. Lee. * Bruce Lee for all he has done for the martial arts was definitely ahead of his time and helped to create a culture of people training, learning across boundaries, etc.  Many of us got into the martial arts because of his movies. However, as a fighter we simply do not know how good he was we can only conjecture because he did not compete.  While Ali was the heavyweight boxing champion of the world.  A huge man, with great reach and incredibly speed for that size and still revered as the greatest in his sport all these years later.  Hard to argue about Ali winning either in the ring or on the street in a fight!


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## Xue Sheng

Brian R. VanCise said:


> I'm mostly curious Buka about someone saying Joe Lewis took down Ali and mounted him.  Curious where that came from as I have not heard it before.  Though having had the opportunity to train with Lewis a couple of times way back in the day I could see this happening.



Just last week I was training with someone who worked with Joe Lewis, and after what he told me I find it possible as well. Basically he told me Joe was very skilled as well as more than a little crazy when it came to MA.


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## Brian R. VanCise

Yes Joe was really good, really good!


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## blindsage

Some people do know how good Bruce was.  But since he doesn't have a public fight record most of us can't and don't rely on their word.  Doesn't mean they aren't correct.


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## Buka

Brian R. VanCise said:


> I'm mostly curious Buka about someone saying Joe Lewis took down Ali and mounted him.  Curious where that came from as I have not heard it before.  Though having had the opportunity to train with Lewis a couple of times way back in the day I could see this happening.
> 
> 
> *As to Ali vs. Lee. * Bruce Lee for all he has done for the martial arts was definitely ahead of his time and helped to create a culture of people training, learning across boundaries, etc.  Many of us got into the martial arts because of his movies. However, as a fighter we simply do not know how good he was we can only conjecture because he did not compete.  While Ali was the heavyweight boxing champion of the world.  A huge man, with great reach and incredibly speed for that size and still revered as the greatest in his sport all these years later.  Hard to argue about Ali winning either in the ring or on the street in a fight!



I'm the one who said it, and I remember it. But I think it was sprawl, rather than a mount. It was reported in one of the Boston newspapers the next day, either the Globe, Herald, Traveler or Record American. There was an accompanying photo, too. The photo didn't show much, two guys on the ground, one obviously on top of the other, with a whole gang of people trying to separate them. Apparently, they knew each other a little bit, I don't know how well, maybe they just met once. And Ali, being Ali, started teasing and throwing some jabs at Joe, who was seated. Joe didn't take to teasing, not by anybody. He did a double leg take down and sprawled on top of him. (might have been a mount, but I think it was a sprawl hold down.) I think it was a one or two paragraph piece, probably used for filler.

My guess is it was after an exhibition match, which Ali did a ton of back then. I think he did twenty of them in 72 alone. I mean, it couldn't have been a title fight or it would have had much more publicity. I remember it like it was yesterday, part of it, anyway. And here's why -I was a huge Ali fan. I grew up watching and following boxing with my family. But Ali was the first guy I liked who didn't wear the white hat. Probably because we were all sort of anti-establishment back then, and Ali sure as hell was the champ of anti-establishment everything. But I first trained with Joe Lewis in 1972 and in a couple years he was the guy I looked up to the most. I remember seeing the picture in the paper and laughing out loud at my kitchen table, saying, "Oh Muhammed, what the hell are you doing messing with Joe Lewis?"

My best guess is it was between 1973 and 1978. Ali did that exhibition with Inoki in June of 76 (the most embarrassing night in the history of the fight game IMO) so I'm guessing it might have been that year. I've tried to google it over the years and couldn't find anything either. Which is kind of surprising. But there have been other things I can't find on Google, and they too, involve the fight game. (that's odd to me)

A couple weeks ago I was at a training camp. One of Joe's long time students was there, too. I wish I had thought of asking him about it. He might remember some details. He might not. But I'll be speaking with him again and see what I can dig up. And maybe I can research this myself. I live in Boston....and it was a Boston paper. I don't know how one gets to go through their history, but a friend is the union rep for the Globe and he might be able to point me in the right direction.

And now I _really_ want to find this because Joe passed away. I want to see that photo and smile just one more time.


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## jks9199

Here is reportedly Joe Lewis's own account:


> *Joe Lewis -* Muhammad Ali was getting ready to fight the wrestler,  Inoki, from Japan. He was at the Olympic Auditorium in Los Angeles  doing a press conference in the boxing ring.  I simply asked him what he  would do if a wrestler did a fake punch at his head and shot for his  leg to take him to the ground. He told me to step in the ring and  demonstrate.  The press pushed me between the ropes, and I found myself  face to face with Ali. We were both in street clothes, and he had his  hands up shuffling side to side using lateral footwork movements against  me.  I did a shoulder fake, which he reacted to, and shot for his leg.   The instance I hooked his leg, I froze.  I was too embarrassed to dump  him on his butt. He bent forward and wrapped his arms around my waist,  and I heard everybody in the place laugh.  I picked him up, did a  fireman&#8217;s carry takedown, dumping him on his back, and pinned him on the  mat.  Everybody grabbed me and pulled me off quickly.  I jumped up,  telling everybody we were just playing.  Ali stood up next to me and put  his arm around my shoulder.  At the time, I was only about 180 pounds  because I was pursuing acting not fighting, and my weight was really  down.  Ali&#8217;s first comment to me was, &#8220;You lifted weights when you were  younger, didn&#8217;t you?&#8221;  I&#8217;m sure he could tell I was extremely strong and  hard as a brick.  Then we did the same movement again, and I pinned him  again a second time in a row.  That&#8217;s when he showed me how he was  going to fight Inoki with his back constantly against the ropes.


Source: Bruce Lee : The Divine Wind


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## PhotonGuy

So how about Mohammed Ali in his prime vs Mike Tyson in his prime? That would be an interesting fight to see.


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## Dirty Dog

PhotonGuy said:


> So how about Mohammed Ali in his prime vs Mike Tyson in his prime? That would be an interesting fight to see.



How about Superman vs Thor?


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## elder999

Dirty Dog said:


> How about Superman vs Thor?




nah. Tyson always had problems with boxers that were anything like Ali: tall guys with good jabs.

Ali in his prime would've creamed Tyson-_who never really achieved his full potential. _


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## drop bear

blindsage said:


> Some people do know how good Bruce was.  But since he doesn't have a public fight record most of us can't and don't rely on their word.  Doesn't mean they aren't correct.



There is also a teapot flying around in space.

Russell's Teapot - RationalWiki


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## blindsage

drop bear said:


> There is also a teapot flying around in space.
> 
> Russell's Teapot - RationalWiki


The point wasn't to 'prove' anything to anyone.  Just saying that some people know.  Most of us don't.  That doesn't change the fact that those people know.


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## hongkongfooey

PhotonGuy said:


> Just because you're bigger than the other guy or because you've got bigger hands than the other guy doesn't mean you will beat them in a fight.



Well, when the bigger guy with bigger hands is a professional fighter that actually won 56 of his 61 fights, it kind of makes a big difference....


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## tkdwarrior

True tyson did not achieve his full potential an awesome and extremely powerful boxer. Wasted his life away.


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## Transk53

tkdwarrior said:


> True tyson did not achieve his full potential an awesome and extremely powerful boxer. Wasted his life away.



Not quite true is it. Yes he got convicted for rape. Yes or no on whether he did it, is another discussion. You do however not include Don King. He contributed to Tysons downfall, and swindled him. Outside influence must not be forgotten. Yes, Mike Tyson still new what "no" meant, he evidently chose to ignore that. Don King though, had a part in that too. I make it clear, I am defending Tyson, I am just making a point that the likes of Don King,  should never be allowed near a ring.


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## hongkongfooey

Transk53 said:


> Not quite true is it. Yes he got convicted for rape. Yes or no on whether he did it, is another discussion. You do however not include Don King. He contributed to Tysons downfall, and swindled him. Outside influence must not be forgotten. Yes, Mike Tyson still new what "no" meant, he evidently chose to ignore that. Don King though, had a part in that too. I make it clear, I am defending Tyson, I am just making a point that the likes of Don King,  should never be allowed near a ring.



Don King is the epitome of a dirt bag.


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## Transk53

Transk53 said:


> Not quite true is it. Yes he got convicted for rape. Yes or no on whether he did it, is another discussion. You do however not include Don King. He contributed to Tysons downfall, and swindled him. Outside influence must not be forgotten. Yes, Mike Tyson still new what "no" meant, he evidently chose to ignore that. Don King though, had a part in that too. I make it clear, I am defending Tyson, I am just making a point that the likes of Don King,  should never be allowed near a ring.



Bump "I not defending Tyson"


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## Transk53

hongkongfooey said:


> Don King is the epitome of a dirt bag.



Yes. I believe the Simpsons episode with "Lucius" says it all. Well, when you have money by whatever means, there is always a corrupt scumbag to take advantage.


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