# kenpo kids



## kevin kilroe (Aug 9, 2003)

to all instructors/school owners or anyone else,

i am looking for your thoughts ,ideas, methods, etc. on kenpo training for kids. the hows, whens, whys, all that good stuff. it is a constant challenge for me to get some kids motivated and enthused to learn. kids are our future black belts and i want to turn out the best martial artists and citizens that i am capable of. knowing that what i know is very little and always wanting to learn, i would love to hear from other kenpo maniacs on this subject.

full salute.

kevin kilroe


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## RCastillo (Aug 9, 2003)

http://www.4kicks.com

Many great ideas there for kids!:asian:


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## rmcrobertson (Aug 9, 2003)

Get a copy of the new edition of Larry Tatum's, "Confidence: A Child's First Weapon."


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## kevin kilroe (Aug 9, 2003)

just tried 4kicks.com and got an internal server error. maybe its just temporary. im curious as to what age you think kids can grasp kenpo. i think a lot of the techniques are way to complex for a kid to learn. some of our classes are kids and adults(families)and it is very difficult to teach that way. it is frustrating to say the least but it is a good lesson in patience. any thoughts?

thanks,
kevin


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## rmcrobertson (Aug 10, 2003)

Kids, in their way, are neither more nor less stupid than we are. They're just differently stupid.

You might also think of teaching kids as a matter of pouring a foundation for a building that you may never see...


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## Nightingale (Aug 10, 2003)

well...

think about modifying the techniques so the kids are learning something they can actually use.

height and size/weight can really matter...

teach them something that will actually work... although there's a definite advantage for a 6'3" opponent against a 5'6" victim, there's almost impossible odds if the 6'3" opponent is attacking a 3'6" child.

Kid vs. kid is something most kids can deal with... its kid vs. adult that is the problem.

go over basic safety...

don't walk around alone
if someone hurts you, run if you can, scream if you can't
if someone does something you don't like, tell an adult

and stuff like that.


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## Kenpomachine (Aug 10, 2003)

> _Originally posted by kevin kilroe _
> *just tried 4kicks.com and got an internal server error. maybe its just temporary. im curious as to what age you think kids can grasp kenpo. *



I got the same error.

FWIW, I began learning kenpo at 9-10 and the program was the same as adults'. Though at that time in Spain there were only 35 or so techniques.

The kids at the school I go sometimes to substitute the teacher are a little younger (7-10) and we work mainly basics and forms with them. The yellow techs are also fine for them. It has to be taught more like a game, though. Don't allow them to be bored in your class 

But they can learn the more complex techniques as well... and do REAL damage with them. The issue with kids is not the complexity of techniques, as I see it, but the lack of proper control.


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## RCastillo (Aug 10, 2003)

> _Originally posted by kevin kilroe _
> *just tried 4kicks.com and got an internal server error. maybe its just temporary. im curious as to what age you think kids can grasp kenpo. i think a lot of the techniques are way to complex for a kid to learn. some of our classes are kids and adults(families)and it is very difficult to teach that way. it is frustrating to say the least but it is a good lesson in patience. any thoughts?
> 
> thanks,
> kevin *



I go with what Huk Planas says, that kenpo should not be taught to them, they can't handle it. Just me 2 cents, nothing more.:asian:


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## MJS (Aug 10, 2003)

IMO, I think that people waste their money when they enroll their 4 yo child.  I mean the class is usually only a half hour, but it is more of a babysitting class, so the parents can run out and get things done, rather than a learning class.  A 4yo has a VERY short attention span, and you need to keep their attn. from the beginning, otherwise, you will never get it back.  Making their learning more into a game, is what you really need to do.  

The older kids.  Well, that seems to work a little better, but at times, even they quickly lose interest if you are not keeping it exciting.  

As for teaching kids or all ages and adults the same technique--this I think is not good.  How can you expect a 4yo, a 12 yo, and a 30 yo, the same tech, and expect it to work??? Doesnt happen!  Kids should be taught like someone else on here posted-- a simple SD tech, something that they will be able to use, as well as safety.  Rather than make them think that they will be able to defend themselves against an adult, why not teach them the safety issues!

Mike


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## KenpoTess (Aug 10, 2003)

Teaching kids is tough~!

Young kids under age 10  have a very short attention span.. don't overload their brains with a deluge of Information.. use the K.I.S.S. Formula.. add some games into the curriculum. Kenpo Dodge ball, padded stick fighting, grappling,  (every schoolyard tussle I've seen .. the kids are usually scrambling together on the ground)  (we teach Samurai Jiu-jitsu also).
Teach basics to very young kids.   as in the 1st yellow belt saying.. Distance is your best friend.. doesn't just pertain to taking a step back or forward or sideways.. it's  Getting away from the attacker..Kia'ing (scare your attacker, Get attention to yourself for help) etc.

We have a bunch of 'pool noodles' we let the kids whack at each other.. having to defend against them using blocks and they love it. 
Making the warmups fun, animal races across the floor, wheelbarrow races, (one kid holds the legs of the other.. ensuring team work,  circuit training,  one area is bag work, one kicking, another  holding legs up 6" off the ground..and so on.  

Each child is an individual and being able to relate to their emotional makeup is a challenge to an instructor, not everyone is meant to be a Teacher.. so make sure whomever is teaching kids is not just reciting information, or demonstrating.. Make sure they are reaching the child, interacting with them, and teaching them.

As kids start maturing anywhere from age 9 up.. they are going to be even more demanding.  Those raging hormones that cause parents to tear their hair out will affect everyone around them.  Their bodies are growing fast, both sexes will be moodier than normal, a young boy going through his growth spurt who could move like lightning a month before may suddenly be a gawky mechanical creature you just want to strangle.. etc.. change is inevitable, patience is the key.



I think from personal experience, that most kids under age 10 are not really ready to dedicate themselves to learning Kenpo.  We've had our share of kids all raring to go at first ..fizzle out after a couple months, Something else comes along to catch their eye and off they go to T-ball, camp, swimming lessons etc (in summer time). Parent's dish out $$ trying to keep the child occupied in an activity, I blame the parent for allowing the kid to quit without ramifications, they just hand out the money to some other activity for the next go round.  It's pretty sad. Or when kids go off on summer vacations and lose their interest while they're away.

 Kid's attention spans are vapid, and you may see 1 out of 10 actually want to learn and reach for a goal.  So there in lies a few issues to deal with.  Creating a program that is fun, yet disciplined and challenging to the age level. 
 Friday night class at our studio had a couple problems for one student.. He was acting out repeatedly, I finally took him aside (age 13) and asked him what the problem was.. No problem, he didn't want to be there that night, he just wasn't in the 'mood' , he was in tears and couldn't maintain any concentration.  I took him aside.. worked on his techniques for a few minutes and then paired him up with another student. gave them each a padded escrima stick, and a shield & Helmet and they stick sparred for the last half of class.  He went out of the class happy and promised next week would be better.  

If you're going to start kids classes, Research, check out other school's programs, make your curriculum a fun one, have good instructors and prepare to embark on a difficult journey 

Good Luck~!

Tess


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## jeffkyle (Aug 10, 2003)

> _Originally posted by RCastillo _
> *I go with what Huk Planas says, that kenpo should not be taught to them, they can't handle it. Just me 2 cents, nothing more.:asian: *



I believe that is a bit narrow minded.  
I have taught Kenpo to Several kids in the past.  They learn the moves very well.  Some aspects of what Kenpo is about they may not understand, but as far as learning the moves, pledges, principles and concepts....they do that very well.  

Truly intriguing....the mind of a child!


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## kenpo2dabone (Aug 11, 2003)

We did teach kids at my orginal school. I was on of the instructors who had that priveledge. It was very frustrating and intimidating at times. Frustrating in that kids act up sometimes, intimidating because it is sometimes difficult to discipline some one elses child in front of them. We did not take kids below the age of 6 and each kid below the age of 8 we screened with a couple of free lessons and then would honostly tell the parents if we felt that their child did ot have the attention span yet to learn Kenpo. At least not the way we taught it. Not to be deragatory twords TKD but we would tell the parents that some of the TKD schools had corriculaums better suited for children and that was absolutely true. We taught the kids the same techniques as the adults just not as many of them per belt. A child purple belt would be the equivalant of an adult orange belt. In the 35 + years that that school was around there was only one junior blackbelt ever awarded. So good luck with thais endeavor. 

Salute,
Mike Miller UKF


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## Kenpodoc (Aug 12, 2003)

Usually I agree with Huk but in this case we differ.  When my 15  year old started at age 9 I used to cringe at his sloppy motion but Mr. Hatfield would remind me to be patient. Sure enough as he is maturing I see everything tightening up.  He now hits harder than I do with less effort.  His Kenpo helped his transition to a new school both because of self confidence and because he can now stop a bully before anyone else even knows whats going on.  I now find that I at 46 can learn new movements but that my son has internalized them.  I now thouroughly believe that Kenpo is for kids.

My instructor Mr. Hatfield has done a good job of  making each learning step smaller.  He now teaches the Kids on a 5 week cycle so they have frequent small goals.  He is very good at finding positive things to tell every child and yet continuously and gently corrects what they do wrong.  

Kenpo is definitely for kids, but not every instructor is good with kids.

Jeff


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## jeffkyle (Aug 12, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Kenpodoc _
> *Usually I agree with Huk but in this case we differ.  When my 15  year old started at age 9 I used to cringe at his sloppy motion but Mr. Hatfield would remind me to be patient. Sure enough as he is maturing I see everything tightening up.  He now hits harder than I do with less effort.  His Kenpo helped his transition to a new school both because of self confidence and because he can now stop a bully before anyone else even knows whats going on.  I now find that I at 46 can learn new movements but that my son has internalized them.  I now thouroughly believe that Kenpo is for kids.*


* 

That is a good story!  I liked it.  



			My instructor Mr. Hatfield has done a good job of  making each learning step smaller.  He now teaches the Kids on a 5 week cycle so they have frequent small goals.  He is very good at finding positive things to tell every child and yet continuously and gently corrects what they do wrong.
		
Click to expand...


 I am kind of curious how that 5 week cycle works.  That sounds like an interesting idea.  




			Kenpo is definitely for kids, but not every instructor is good with kids.
		
Click to expand...


I know that to be sooo true.  I have seen it!  :shrug: 




			Jeff
		
Click to expand...


Jeff*


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## satans.barber (Aug 12, 2003)

I have to ask, what on earth is a pool noodle!??  

Ian.


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## Michael Billings (Aug 12, 2003)

It is a floatation device 6' long and roughly 8" in diameter.  It can wrap under arms, between legs, sit on it like a swing, and they used them in my Physical Therapy when I was rehabing my knee in their pool.


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## jeffkyle (Aug 12, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Michael Billings _
> *It is a floatation device 6' long and roughly 8" in diameter.  It can wrap under arms, between legs, sit on it like a swing, and they used them in my Physical Therapy when I was rehabing my knee in their pool. *



They are soft and commonly used by kids to beat on each other with.


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## Nightingale (Aug 12, 2003)

http://www.poolcenter.com/pooltoys_noodles_water_logs.htm


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## jeffkyle (Aug 12, 2003)

> _Originally posted by nightingale8472 _
> *http://www.poolcenter.com/pooltoys_noodles_water_logs.htm *



I didn't know they had sooooo many different things.


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## Kenpodoc (Aug 13, 2003)

> _Originally posted by jeffkyle _
> *
> I am kind of curious how that 5 week cycle works.  That sounds like an interesting idea.
> 
> Jeff *



The basic system was adopted from Mr. Wedlake. Everyone is in a 5 week learning cycle.  Adults learn 3 techniques every 5 weeks, week 4 is for review and week 5 is test week. This comes out to 5 years minimum study for a black belt but most of us take longer. the children are divided into 2 groups.

Juniors.  Age 9 - 15 also work 3 techniques every 5 weeks.  This ensures lot's of tape stripes on each belt to keep interest focused.  Junior black belt is 114 techniques and the focus is on dealing with student to student violence, avoiding dangerous adults and developing good study habits for home and school.  Several of the techniques are modified to be more acceptable in a school situation (ie Striking Serpants head with a heelpalm.)  Basics are emphasized throughout.  if the child then chooses to advance to Adult Blackbelt they start back at the beginning to learn the system as taught to adults.

Little Dragons age 5 - 10 learn an approx 80 technique system.  The techniques are shortened and are essentially the entry move with one or two follow ups.  The long 1 and long 2 are shortened.  They learn 2 techniques every 5 weeks with 2 weeks review and 1 testing/fun day.  When they move up to Junior they start at the beginning again and learn the longer versions.  Lot's of basics contests are emphasized and classes are kept fun.

The system sounds regimented but it keeps both the kids and the instructors focused.

Respectfully,

Jeff


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## Ceicei (Aug 13, 2003)

Both of my sons (ages 8 and 10) are into kenpo and have been for over a year.  They show no sign of getting bored and constantly want more.  

I noticed their techniques have been modified to fit the kids for efficiency.  The kids also do more ground work than the adults do and become adept with body rolls.  I guess the instructors feel that because kids are much smaller than adults, more ground work is needed.

My sons always ask to watch me when I go at nights to practice at the dojo.  (I sometimes wonder why they think its so fascinating to see their own mom work out...)  Most of these evenings, I tell them to stay home with Dad and their sisters just to relax.  That's so I can concentrate better during my training.  

They also recently finished a 9-week extensive summer Kenpo Karate camp (all day 9 am to 3 pm).  They have learned even more what it means to be a kenpo martial artist [and frankly, they are getting to be VERY good now with their moves].  Each week has a different theme.   They learn basics and practice techniques associated with the theme, play training games, go on specific field trips, and a hike every Thursday at various places.   There are Friday demonstrations to show parents what they learned that week.  A BBQ comes after each Friday demo so the parents can socialize and kids just play.  The final camp week was last Friday.

Now they are a bit disappointed we "have to" return to the regular twice-a-week after school practices with optional Saturday sessions.  They will start reviewing what they've learned to refresh their skills and go into more depth.

From what I can see, Kenpo is for kids too.

We'll see how things go with their second year of training coming up....whether they would stay with it.

- Ceicei


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## Seig (Aug 14, 2003)

> _Originally posted by jeffkyle _
> *They are soft and commonly used by kids to beat on each other with.   *


And that is exactly what I have them do with them, they don't know it, but I'm priming them for staff set......


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## Titan Uk (Nov 1, 2003)

Some clubs do not have a junior class, when asked yet. The instructor stated that he did not have the patiences to teach kids as they do not understand.

Personally I think that is a poor excuses.javascript:smilie('')
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Kids learn at a different level to adults. It is not easy to instruct them and at times I want to pull my hair out, what I have left.

4kicks is a very good start for ideas. Keep excerises short and try to introduce new ideas very month. Kempo style games are very good.

Mixed classes of junior and seniors are very difficult and need 2 or more instructors as we found out at our club, but seeing seniors in action also gives the kids something to aim for.javascript:smilie('')
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## stickarts (Nov 1, 2003)

The majority of parents bring their kids to us to help their self esteem, get excercise, and learn discipline. The moves they learn will later be used for self defense, but that is hardly the focus with a 4 year old! The parents give us an incedible amount of positive feedback, see great things happening with their kids and don't consider it a waste of time, therefore, it is not a waste of time! Keeping it simple and fun is important for the kids and as the kids gain a skill they have a special sense of pride. Any instructor that does not understand the positive impact and important role that they have in the kids lives, or does not have a positive attitude about teaching them  should not be teaching kids!
fortunately, we currently have a great staff that makes the program a success.


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## MJS (Nov 1, 2003)

Just to make a clarification on my post.  Regarding a "waste of time"  Sure, enrolling your child in the arts is definately a positive thing.  It is much better than having the child sit at home, watch tv, play video games, and eat candy.  At least in the arts, they are making friends, getting exercise, attempting to learn self control,discipline and respect.  However, I have seen many times kids walking into the school by themselves, and again leaving by themselves.  You rarely see the parents, and then its these very parents that approach you and ask why their child is not progressing.  Well, maybe if they spent some time watching their child, they would know about the problems they he/she might be having.  The Inst. should not have to chase after the parents to discuss the progress of the student.  Throughout my teaching, I have, many times had a parent say to me," Well, Joey has been a yellow belt for 8 months, and Brian, who started with him at the same time is an orange belt.  How come?"  I have also seen parents frustrated with the learning speed of their child, and they resort to taking them out of classes.  They are often told, "Well, maybe when they are a little older, you can try again."

Looking at the students progression.  You can show a 4yo something, have them train it for 10min and ask to see it, and they will, the majority of the time, still have a problem with it.  The child will still, after the Inst. gets frustrated, get a stripe or promotion.  IMO, this is doing nothing but giving the child and the parents a false sense of doing well.  

I dont think it has anything to do with the Inst. lack of positive feedback.  Instead, they are being up front with the parent, telling them that the child is not quite ready for something like this.  Its unfortuante though in some cases, the dollar is more important than the reality that the child is not ready.

Mike


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## Titan Uk (Nov 1, 2003)

Totally agree with the parent situation. They do get upset when they are informed that their kids are not up to speed for the next grading.
But they do not take the time to stay and watch what the kids are having problems with or how far they have progressed for themselves.

Sometime it just feels like a baby sitting service, so the parents can just go shopping or visit someone without the kids.


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## stickarts (Nov 1, 2003)

yep, we have had our share of the absent parents and its sad to see. we certainly also have our share of getting beat up by parents  because their child isn't a blackbelt after a week of training!!
unfortunately it comes with the territory when you run a school.
There does become a point though when you finally suggest that another school might be a better fit for them!


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