# Keeping Knees Aligned



## eyebeams (Apr 19, 2005)

Hi,

 I've been studying Yang style for about a year and a half now. I'm having a hell of a time keeping my knees in line.

 I seem to have some kind of knee problem, probably due to my height and weight (6'5", 245 lbs) taking its toll. I notice my knees tend to buckle toward each other. Pushing my knees out is not only not relaxed, but tends to push my feet up on their knife-edges. I feel I have to force my knees out in standing meditation and walking, but it's at its worst in one legged postures, where my balance is in trouble because my knee "naturally" wants to collapse inwards.

 I have two questions:

 1) Does anybody have any postural/technical defects I can look out for that might be causing this?

 2) Does anybody have any ideas for exercises that would help correct this?

 Best to your practice!


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## pete (Apr 19, 2005)

yes, go see your teacher for corrections~

 the problem may be tightness above (hips) or below (ankles) the knees. your height and weight shouldn't matter if you are working within your own structural parameter, but they would if you are trying to imitate somebody else with a different body type.


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## TigerWoman (Apr 19, 2005)

Squats are good for the knees, I found.  Keep them aligned, not splaying out, and don't go down past 90°, keeping your knees not going past your toes. I touch the back wall or bag going down. Work up to 100.  Also, for the VM quad muscle, inner thigh, put a weight on your ankle-3-8 lbs, sit on the floor with both legs straight out. Now angle one leg 30° out, turn the foot-toes out and lift--hold for 20-30 sec.  The reason for this exercise is that the 3 other quads are stronger and overpower the inner quad. You use the VM to press your knee into its proper alignment.  Hope that helps. TW


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## shesulsa (Apr 19, 2005)

I recommend you see a physical therapist and an orthopedic doctor right away.  There could be a few things going on here.  You may have a structural defect, you may have muscular imbalance in your legs (ankles, knees, etcetera), your knees might not be tracking properly. It might also be as simple as a postural problem that can be corrected.  So, before you take any advice on exercises here, you REALLY need to see a professional first.


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## eyebeams (Apr 19, 2005)

pete said:
			
		

> yes, go see your teacher for corrections~
> 
> the problem may be tightness above (hips) or below (ankles) the knees. your height and weight shouldn't matter if you are working within your own structural parameter, but they would if you are trying to imitate somebody else with a different body type.


 I have seen my teacher and it has helped.  It's the *correct* posture that is difficult for me. Just to clarify, the issue with the knees is something I was notified of by my doctor. It's a condition that affects apparently affects some tall people because of torque on the joint stretching it past its normal track. It is supposed to disapear with age, but as a side effect of losing flexibility -- but I'm not interested in getting better by losing mobility.


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## shesulsa (Apr 19, 2005)

It could be that over time and with corrected posturing, and after some stiffness and soreness, you're probably going to be fine.  I have a friend who actually had to have his growth plates operated on so he's stop growing (currently 6'6" and over 300 lbs).

 I'm no professional (PT wannabe), but I'd say you're probably going to experience some stiffness and soreness as your musculature changes.  Look into some shoes you can do this in that build up at the blade of the foot (outside edge) and just keep on working.  I'd really recommend you consult with a physical therapist from time to time and a good chiropractor if you can find one - preferably one who does applied kinesiology.


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## pete (Apr 19, 2005)

eyebeams,

*your* correct posture should not be difficult or painful.  it should feel completely natural, or else you cannot practice tai chi properly.  remember, balance is a guiding principle of tai chi. it is impossible to remain in balance, in mind and body, if there is a pain or preoccupation in a specific part. your mind will focus on that part, and you may tend to use your other stronger parts to compensate for the weak one.

building up other areas or muscles to compensate for a weak part is a common trap.  again there lacks balance.  the stronger parts will begn to become even stronger and the weaker parts will become even weaker and more dependant. worse yet, over time you could eventually injure your once stronger parts through overuse.

instead, bring your body into balance based on the limitations of your weakest part, in your case the knees.  let the comfortable range of motion in your knees dictate your *correct* posture.  work with your teacher to set the expectation for your current range of motion.  this way, your mind can remain still and in harmony with your body, and the all parts can move in unity, without dependencies or compensation.

using this approach, you will be able to slowly and gradually improve your weak part, without aggrevating it or developing weakness in other areas. remember, pain is your body telling you something ain't right... don't try to work through it or compensate for it.  accept your limitations and move forward in balance.

this is how i am taught.  i hope it helps...

pete.


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## Skankatron Ltd (Apr 19, 2005)

I have a question about knees too, while on the topic.
Since I started tai chi I find that my knees pop a lot and hurt sometimes. They have gotten a lot stronger thanks to tai chi, but only then did my problems start.
It occurs to me that this could have been because I was trying to get into the lotus position for like a month or two for meditation class, but I haven't tried it in quite a while, so.....?
Thanks fer your thought,
-J


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## Feisty Mouse (Apr 19, 2005)

Skankatron - I *love* My Neighbor Totoro, great avatar.

I tried posting this earlier but it was lost....

The only small piece of advice I can offer is what has helped me.  I have knee problems, and could actually make them worse with Tai Chi.  The instructors I have now are very careful about things like that, and have corrected me repeatedly (slow learner!) - to fold at the hip, and turn at the hip - i.e. when taking a step, pivot from the hip joint, rather than from the ankle or knee.  Also try to avoid floating sideways on your knees.

I hope you figure out what is troubling you soon.


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## 7starmantis (Apr 19, 2005)

Also, a good joint support suppliment might help with the pain and the "popping". Get a good one that helps with cartiledge and tendon health and growth.

7sm


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## vampyre_rat (Apr 21, 2005)

If your knees hurt its best to raise your posture to the point where the pain does not occur in your practice.

Then, when the pain does not happen during practice, you can _gradually_ lower your posture again.

A lot of joint/knee trouble in taiji comes from going too low too soon.  Let your body adapt and the risk is reduced.

For knee alignment trouble....

When in a single legged stance be careful about where your waist is pointing in relation to the direction of your foot.  If your hip is not flexible enough and you over turn, then your knee is going to try to collapse inwards.  Through practice your hips will gradually increase in flexibility, just don't rush it.

Ensure that your knee does not extend too far forward in front stances as there is a point where the forces start to try to wrench your knee as opposed to just directing the force into the ground.  Normally this is caused by the knee extended beyond the toes.  Again this can be caused by going too low too soon.

Your feet should be flat on the ground.  If it feels like you have more weight on one side than another, then your feet are not flat.

Taiji postures should be comfortable on the joints (the muscles may complain, but they can take it, your joints can't).  We must be nice to our knees so that they'll continue to allow us to use them well into old age.

Everyone is built differently.  It is difficult to have your posture be exactly the same as someone else's.  Ensure that you feel connected into the ground.  Don't be too 'greedy' with your stance.  Allow it to develope gradually, gradually.  It's when we rush things that mistakes get made.

Don't force your posture, let it gradually come into line.

All the best.

VR


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## Skankatron Ltd (Apr 21, 2005)

thanks, I think the problem may be that I was a wee bit overzealous and tried to go to low to soon. I will work on correcting it, since this problem is just getting more painful.
!
-J


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