# stick vs. barung



## OULobo (Aug 1, 2003)

To all the FMA practitioners.

When you train with large bladed weapons (or with practice large bladed weapons), do you change your fighting style to accomodate the cutting edge and differing weapon weight and shape.  I have noticed FMA schools training that large blades and sticks are interchangable, and while I agree, I think that to use kris or barung like a stick doesn't fully utilize the advantages of the weapon. Opinions?


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## krys (Aug 1, 2003)

> do you change your fighting style to accomodate the cutting edge and differing weapon weight and shape.



Of course, when you strike with a bolo you want to cut, therefore you aim to make contact with the cutting edge and slice through your opponents body. You also want to avoid being cut when the blade returns toward you.... Your footwork and strikes have to take these two factors into account.





> I have noticed FMA schools training that large blades and sticks are interchangable



Blades and sticks are not interchangeables for the simple reason that you may cut yourself if you use a blade like a stick....
Besides all the fancy stick twirling-abanico does not work with heavy blades unless you have arms like trees...

You could use a stick like a blade and still be efficient, the opposite would be very unhealthy....
People advocating this know nothing of blade combat, they probably never train with sharp weapons.....
In the two traditional escrima styles I study we do not aim to strike with sticks but with blades..... so there is nothing to change when we fight with bolos.
This is not the case with many of the modern styles who only teach stick fighting..........

Christian,
mabuhay ang filipino Silat at Arnis


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## Cuentada (Aug 1, 2003)

In bahala na (Giron system) which is mostly blade/bolo oriented, we train with sticks and sometimes with hardwood/aluminum bolos to get used to the blade orientation and how it flows with the footwork and body mechanics....you also get to see the limitations that the stick has in terms of types of strikes and disarms. In balintawak (stick oriented) you can get away with certain applications that you'd dare not use with a sword/bolo.


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## arnisandyz (Aug 1, 2003)

I have noticed FMA schools training that large blades and sticks are interchangable


Be sure you have all the facts.  Is the school saying "for everthing"?  Most likely if this is said it is in the beginning stages - like doing numbered angles of attack with a stick, then a sword, then a knife, then emtyhand.  It is to teach more the angles and less, the weapon.  Even then, the orientation of the weapon will have slight adjustments (cutting vs bashing) but the angle or line of attack should be pretty close.

Its pretty obvious there are things you can do with a stick that you can't do with a blade and vice versa. now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to try and cut my steak with my chopsticks 

Andy


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## Cruentus (Aug 1, 2003)

> _Originally posted by OULobo _
> *To all the FMA practitioners.
> 
> When you train with large bladed weapons (or with practice large bladed weapons), do you change your fighting style to accomodate the cutting edge and differing weapon weight and shape.  I have noticed FMA schools training that large blades and sticks are interchangable, and while I agree, I think that to use kris or barung like a stick doesn't fully utilize the advantages of the weapon. Opinions? *



Using a Kris or Barung like a stick could do more damage then not just utilizing the weapons advantages, I think it could get you hurt/killed.

Remy Presas said, "It's all the same...", which is true, but only IN CONCEPT. If I were to try some of the stuff with a blade that I do with a stick, I'd cut myself to bits. If I were to use a stick EXACTLY like the blade, I'd be neglecting some key things that an eskrimador could take advantage of.

You have to know how to make the modifications and adjustments for the tool your using; it's just that simple.


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## pesilat (Aug 1, 2003)

Personally, when I say, "What I do with a stick, I can do with a sword. What I do with a sword, I can do with a knife. What I can do with a knife, I can do empty handed." Usually, I'm talking about the concepts and principles of movement involved. Specific details will change with the nature of the weapon, of course. But the basic motions will remain the same.

That's my take on it, anyway.

Mike


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## OULobo (Aug 1, 2003)

I think its pretty easy to see how chokes and abanicos would be a bad idea.

Even when using a barung instead of a kris things change quite a bit. I find that I can rest the barung on my free arm in a "closed" position, because there is no edge on the backside, but this is obviously not a good idea with a kris. 

I mainly see the difference when I realize that I don't have to fully strike or counterstrike with these weapons. I come to find that a short slice would suffice with a barung when a full hack would be required with a stick to get any major effect. 

I guess it is just a little irksome to let someone who has some training handle one of my barungs and see them try to apply obviously badly translated stick drills or techniques.


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## lhommedieu (Aug 1, 2003)

> _Originally posted by krys _
> 
> Of course, when you strike with a bolo you want to cut, therefore you aim to make contact with the cutting edge and slice through your opponents body. You also want to avoid being cut when the blade returns toward you.... Your footwork and strikes have to take these two factors into account...
> 
> You could use a stick like a blade and still be efficient...



I concur that the stick can be used like a blade:  factors that may govern your efficiency include whether you hit close to the tip of the stick (thereby maximizing the use of the stick as a lever), the hardness of the stick, and whether you hit bony targets, nerves, blood vessels, etc.

For one example of the body mechanics that comes into play when using the stick like a blade, see:

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze4fs8i/bodymechanics.htm

Best,

Steve Lamade


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## pesilat (Aug 1, 2003)

> *I guess it is just a little irksome to let someone who has some training handle one of my barungs and see them try to apply obviously badly translated stick drills or techniques. *



Yup. But I figure that they're either young and will learn better over time. Or they're stupid and shouldn't be learning blade work anyway 

Mike


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## krys (Aug 1, 2003)

I have no problem using the stick like a blade, that's what I tend to do.
My message was that it is dangerous to use the blade like a stick  .

Christian,

mabuhay ang filipino Silat at Arnis.


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## LAKANPOPOT (Aug 3, 2003)

YES AND NO!
WHY?BECAUSE YOU DO NOT WANT TO APPLY AND FANCY MOVEMENTS WITH THE YOUR BLADED WEAPONS. EXAMPLE TWIRLING. A BIG NO NO! YOU ALSO DON'T LIKE TO USE TOO MUCH ABANICO MOVEMENTS UNLESS IT'S LARGO. YOU ADJUST A LITTLE. WITH THE BLADE IF YOU ARE USED TO USING A STICK. YOUR MOVEMENTS ARE MORE SLASH AND THRUST OR VICE VERSA. WTIH THE STICK YOU HAVE MORE FREEDOM OF MOTION. BOTH USING ECONOMY OF MOTION. ONE THING YOU HAVE TO REMEMBER WITH THE BLADE IS IF YOU BLOCK. USE THE FLAT OF THE BLADE. DON'T FORGET THE BACK OF THE BLADE IS A WEAPON TOO. USE IT. TAP INSTEAD OF GRAB. IT'S ALL FAMILIARIZATION WITH THE TYPE OF WEAPON YOU HAVE IN HAND. 

                                                        LAKANPOPOT


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## Black Grass (Aug 5, 2003)

The barung is very different than a stick in that you attack using the middle of the blade as opposed to the upper or tip of the stick. 

Vince
aka Black Grass


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