# Chung Do Kwan Certificate



## Wilde (Jan 7, 2017)

I have heard of and seen these Chung Do Kwan certificates, but I would like to know if I could get one. I have been searching and digging trying to find how. If anyone could tell me how, it would be appreciated. Thank you!

Photos for Reference:
http://gallery.grandmastervohra.net/images/GMV_20120103120604.jpg
http://www.coloradobluewave.org/5thDanBlackCDKMasterKluzCert.jpg
http://www.moks-tkd.com/photos/9dan_certificate_large.jpg


----------



## Dirty Dog (Jan 7, 2017)

As a general rule, I'd suggest getting your rank certificates from the person who promoted you...


----------



## TrueJim (Jan 7, 2017)

Dirty Dog said:


> As a general rule, I'd suggest getting your rank certificates from the person who promoted you...



Sure if you wanna do it the HARD way!


----------



## Wilde (Jan 7, 2017)

Dirty Dog said:


> As a general rule, I'd suggest getting your rank certificates from the person who promoted you...



My Grandmaster is not the most healthy man. My association won't be around for much longer. But I completely understand what you're talking about, I just want to know for future reference.


----------



## Dirty Dog (Jan 7, 2017)

I don't see any (reputable) way you could get one then. No reputable association will issue you a rank certificate "just because."
If you cannot get one from your own GM, your only real choice is to establish yourself with a different association and fulfill their requirements for the rank.


----------



## jks9199 (Jan 7, 2017)

Wilde said:


> My Grandmaster is not the most healthy man. My association won't be around for much longer. But I completely understand what you're talking about, I just want to know for future reference.


Sounds like it may be time to look at transitioning associations...  This is likely to be much easier if they can talk to/confirm your training with your current instructor and association...

You can do this in a way that makes it clear to your instructor that the only reason you're considering a change is his health, and the incipient collapse of the organization...  and your wish to be able to continue your training at that point smoothly.  Probably try to be a member of both as long as possible...


----------



## RTKDCMB (Jan 8, 2017)

Wilde said:


> My Grandmaster is not the most healthy man. My association won't be around for much longer.


Is there no one in your association who can take over after he departs?


----------



## Wilde (Jan 8, 2017)

jks9199 said:


> Sounds like it may be time to look at transitioning associations...  This is likely to be much easier if they can talk to/confirm your training with your current instructor and association...
> 
> You can do this in a way that makes it clear to your instructor that the only reason you're considering a change is his health, and the incipient collapse of the organization...  and your wish to be able to continue your training at that point smoothly.  Probably try to be a member of both as long as possible...


That is my plan, I am going to be with my association. I just want some "insurance" so I can continue training.


----------



## Wilde (Jan 8, 2017)

RTKDCMB said:


> Is there no one in your association who can take over after he departs?


There will be but she is one of the main reasons the association is falling apart. She cheats in tournaments, thinks every other martial art besides her version of Tae Kwon Do is useless, driven away three schools that were apart of the association, and I hate to say it, but she is an all around bad person.


----------



## WaterGal (Jan 9, 2017)

Wilde said:


> There will be but she is one of the main reasons the association is falling apart. She cheats in tournaments, thinks every other martial art besides her version of Tae Kwon Do is useless, driven away three schools that were apart of the association, and I hate to say it, but she is an all around bad person.



Then yeah, you need to jump ship.  Do you have any kind of certification from a larger body?  If not, you might be able to find a TKD school in another organization that will fast-track you to a dan grading.


----------



## MasterWright (Jan 31, 2017)

Wilde said:


> I have heard of and seen these Chung Do Kwan certificates, but I would like to know if I could get one. I have been searching and digging trying to find how. If anyone could tell me how, it would be appreciated. Thank you!
> 
> Photos for Reference:
> http://gallery.grandmastervohra.net/images/GMV_20120103120604.jpg
> ...


Perhaps Master Covert in Canton MI, Olympian Tae Kwon Do - Home
or Master Miles. Calling Master Miles......


----------



## IcemanSK (Mar 29, 2017)

The U.S. Chung Do Kwan Association (USCDKA.com), of which GM Covert is a proud member of Chung Do Kwan. Also, Master Peter Miles is a fine member of the Chung Do Kawn. However, if you're merely looking for "insurance" and not to become the student of either of these fine masters, I doubt you will get what you want. As Dirty Dog said above, "No reputable association will issue you a rank certificate "just because."

FWIW, I'd recommend that you stay with your current association. If it closes at some point, then go search out a new master. It will take a shift in mindset to learn a different way. I've been there and done that a few times over the years. It is the honorable way to move forward.

I wish you well.


----------



## Master-Theophylus (Jul 15, 2017)

The US Chung do Kwan is a cute enough organization, but they are still only a private organization just like all the other thousands out there. They would hold very little weight without the Kukkiwon. Master Brenda Sell is a fantastic woman and great martial artist but the same could not be said for the rest of those schools not directly affiliated with her family. If I were you, I would say forget about the Chungdokwan, (which is just a private frat club for taekwondo and nothing more) and any other Dan. Train in kukkiwon style taekwondo and test under the kukkiwon. Once you have a certified kukkiwon dan, you're internationally certified as a black belt and are the most reputable in the taekwondo world. And once you become a master, you can start attempting to be able to test your lesser students and black belts for kukkiwon dans as well. 
I hope nobody gets offended by my words about the uscdka. But in all honesty, they are a business more than a martial arts association.


----------



## andyjeffries (Jul 17, 2017)

I'm not offended, but I disagree. I think it's important to keep our roots alive, and while kwan rank are seen in Korea as nothing more than friendship rank and Kukkiwon is the only official one, internationally keeping our kwans functioning is very important. I'm a proud supporter of both Kukkiwon and my kwan (Changmookwan) and there is no conflict there, so there's no need to forsake my kwan.


----------



## Master-Theophylus (Jul 17, 2017)

andyjeffries said:


> I'm not offended, but I disagree. I think it's important to keep our roots alive, and while kwan rank are seen in Korea as nothing more than friendship rank and Kukkiwon is the only official one, internationally keeping our kwans functioning is very important. I'm a proud supporter of both Kukkiwon and my kwan (Changmookwan) and there is no conflict there, so there's no need to forsake my kwan.



Yeah, by no means forsake your Kwan. I would never forsake my organization just for a kukkiwon. However if you're not affeliated directly with the Chung Do Kwan, and are looking for credibility, I wouldn't Perdue the Chung do Kwan, I would Perdue the Kukkiwon.


----------



## kitkatninja (Jul 17, 2017)

Wilde said:


> That is my plan, I am going to be with my association. I just want some "insurance" so I can continue training.



Was wondering, have you tried/looked into Welcome to TaekwonWoo | TaekwonWoo for TKD training and ranking in-conjunction with your existing association?  Just in case...

I mean, I'm not a TKD guy, but Master Woo is registered with the kukkiwon, so you could get their ranks (provided you meet their training and grading requirements)...


----------



## Wilde (Jul 20, 2017)

A major issue that seems to be plaguing this thread is that some are thinking I just want rank "just cause". I simply want to have an good association, federation, or whatever that I can join that will let me continue my training and *earn* my rank.


----------



## Master-Theophylus (Jul 24, 2017)

Wilde said:


> A major issue that seems to be plaguing this thread is that some are thinking I just want rank "just cause". I simply want to have an good association, federation, or whatever that I can join that will let me continue my training and *earn* my rank.



The kukkiwon is the way to go. If you can't find a kukkiwon certified master to certify you directly as a kukkiwon black belt, then I would find any association that provides kukkiwon Dans with their certification, and just join their association. The largest kukkiwon certified association is the WTF, and the largest private association is the USCDKA, US Chung Do Kwan association.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## andyjeffries (Jul 25, 2017)

Master-Theophylus said:


> ...find any association that provides kukkiwon Dans with their certification, and just join their association. The largest kukkiwon certified association is the WTF...



The WTF isn't "Kukkiwon certified". The WTF is an entirely separate entity that only governs the Sport Taekwondo side. Also your ordering implies to joint them, individual members can't join the WTF, only national associations can (and only one per country).

This is entirely different to the Kukkiwon itself - they accepts anyone with a Dan certificate as a "member" regardless of which association you are a member of or how many associations from your country request Dan certificates. You can also apply to join their "Kukkiwon Membership System" when you reach 4th Dan, which allows you to promote others up to one rank below yourself (except 8th/9th which must be done in Korea).


----------



## Master-Theophylus (Jul 25, 2017)

andyjeffries said:


> The WTF isn't "Kukkiwon certified". The WTF is an entirely separate entity that only governs the Sport Taekwondo side. Also your ordering implies to joint them, individual members can't join the WTF, only national associations can (and only one per country).
> 
> This is entirely different to the Kukkiwon itself - they accepts anyone with a Dan certificate as a "member" regardless of which association you are a member of or how many associations from your country request Dan certificates. You can also apply to join their "Kukkiwon Membership System" when you reach 4th Dan, which allows you to promote others up to one rank below yourself (except 8th/9th which must be done in Korea).



I said the WTF was an association/Federation. That's a correct statement. There is no WTF affiliate that is not Kukkiwon certified or certifiable. I suggested anyone go to a school or association that is a part of the WTF, because they will have the opportunity to receive a kukkiwon Dan. Just like with the Kukkiwon, not anybody can join them, they have to find a school that is affiliated with the Kukkiwon to get certified. I don't exactly know what you're trying to refute?

If an association practices WTF Taekwondo, they also promote through the Kukkiwon. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## andyjeffries (Jul 25, 2017)

Master-Theophylus said:


> I said the WTF was an association/Federation.



You actually said "The largest kukkiwon certified association is the WTF". They aren't Kukkiwon certified.



Master-Theophylus said:


> That's a correct statement. There is no WTF affiliate that is not Kukkiwon certified or certifiable.



What is a "WTF affiliate"? WT (ex-WTF) only has Member National Associations as it's members. It doesn't have affiliates, it doesn't have dojangs, it doesn't have individuals as members.



Master-Theophylus said:


> I suggested anyone go to a school or association that is a part of the WTF



Schools can't be part of the WTF. They can have a route to WTF competitions through the official WTF MNA in their country, but they aren't part of the WTF.



Master-Theophylus said:


> because they will have the opportunity to receive a kukkiwon Dan. Just like with the Kukkiwon, not anybody can join them, they have to find a school that is affiliated with the Kukkiwon to get certified.



Schools don't need to be "affiliated" in any way with Kukkiwon, a Kukkiwon 4th Dan or above individual, whether they have a school or not, can request to have a KMS account. They can then certify anyone else within their country up to one dan below themselves, without needing a school or being part of a WTF MNA.



Master-Theophylus said:


> I don't exactly know what you're trying to refute?



I'm only trying to refute the inaccuracies in terminology, because we should all be clear and correct or future generations will continually find it confusing.



Master-Theophylus said:


> If an association practices WTF Taekwondo, they also promote through the Kukkiwon.



Again, sorry but this is incorrect. WTF Taekwondo isn't a martial art, it's a sports rule set and international governing body. Associations don't practice WTF Taekwondo, their members practice Kukkiwon Taekwondo (or Kukki-Taekwondo) and compete using WTF rules.

Associations can also practice WTF rules for sports competition, but give out their own dan certificates (e.g. USAT or any association that just chooses to use kwan dan rank).


----------



## TrueJim (Jul 25, 2017)

Master-Theophylus said:


> If an association practices WTF Taekwondo, they also promote through the Kukkiwon.



Is this true? I've never thought about this question before. I know there are a lot of individual _schools_ that practice Kukkiwon (WTF) style taekwondo, and they don't promote through Kukkiwon. There are even a couple schools in my neighborhood that practice the taegeuk forms but don't provide Kukkiwon certificates.


----------



## Master-Theophylus (Jul 25, 2017)

TrueJim said:


> Is this true? I've never thought about this question before. I know there are a lot of individual _schools_ that practice Kukkiwon (WTF) style taekwondo, and they don't promote through Kukkiwon. There are even a couple schools in my neighborhood that practice the taegeuk forms but don't provide Kukkiwon certificates.



Yeah, what I'm talking about specifically is the schools that are licensed to use the wtf logo. There are some, like my school, that practice Taeguk that are not kukkiwon certified. But if a school is wtf certified and attends wtf tournaments or are active in wtf Taekwondo, they obviously provide kukkiwon certificates, otherwise they aren't allowed to be in said tournaments etc


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## andyjeffries (Jul 26, 2017)

Master-Theophylus said:


> Yeah, what I'm talking about specifically is the schools that are licensed to use the wtf logo.



Licensed by the WTF? They allow WTF MNA's to use the logo but not to sub-license it to dojangs without them specifically contracting directly with the WTF. This is in the WTF Trademark Bylaws.

http://worldtaekwondo.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/WTF_Trademark_Bylaws_May_2015.pdf



Master-Theophylus said:


> But if a school is wtf certified



Which they cannot be. If you believe your school to be "WTF Certified" can you please post a picture of the certificate from the WTF.

For example, British Taekwondo (the WTF MNA in Great Britain) has the following statement in their logo usage guide:



> However, BT clubs are members of BT. Any use of the logo must not say or imply that they are not members of or directly affiliated to any of the following and:  World Taekwondo Federation... -- http://www.britishtaekwondo.org.uk/...kwondo-—-Guidelines-for-Use-of-Logos-2016.pdf


----------



## andyjeffries (Jul 31, 2017)

Please ignore - replied to an old message I'd already replied to.


----------



## Miles (Aug 5, 2017)

MasterWright said:


> Perhaps Master Covert in Canton MI, Olympian Tae Kwon Do - Home
> or Master Miles. Calling Master Miles......


 

Hi Master Wright!  Hope all is well!  I infrequently check MT-I miss you guys but have been very busy with work, et al.

GM Covert is with the USCDKA and Master Jensen has already suggested that the OP could join that fine organization.

I am posting because as of 7/1/2017 the Chung Do Kwan certificates will bear GM Park Have Man's signature.  Like many other CDK instructors, I received a letter from GM Park explaining that upon GM Uhm's death, he became the Kwan Jang.  We fully support GM Park and the Chung Do Kwan!


----------



## WaterGal (Aug 7, 2017)

Master-Theophylus said:


> Yeah, what I'm talking about specifically is the schools that are licensed to use the wtf logo. There are some, like my school, that practice Taeguk that are not kukkiwon certified. But if a school is wtf certified and attends wtf tournaments or are active in wtf Taekwondo, they obviously provide kukkiwon certificates, otherwise they aren't allowed to be in said tournaments etc



These things are not nearly as related as you think.  You can give KKW certs while teaching Palgwe forms.  You can go to WTF-style rec tournaments as a TSD school. I'm almost certain you can do ITF TKD, and still be a USAT member and compete at the national/international level.

KKW gives dan certificates.  WT(F) oversees Olympic-style sport TKD.  "WTF-style TKD" is a common colliqualism, and (in my experience) most KKW-style schools hang up a WTF flag in the dojang, but technically "WTF" is not a style of TKD.


----------



## TrueJim (Aug 7, 2017)

WaterGal said:


> I'm almost certain you can do ITF TKD, and still be a USAT member and compete at the national/international level...



I could be mistaken but I *think* Hangastar (the website that you use to register as a competitor for USAT events) requires you to enter a Kukkiwon or USAT dan number. That having been said, for a fee I believe you can convert your ITF dan into a USAT dan -- now that USAT has started issuing their own dan. So technically you're still correct -- an ITF dan can compete in USAT events, as long as they do that one preliminary step.

(When I registered to be a USAT ref I had to provide my Kukkiwon dan number and upload a scan of my dan card or certificate. But I've never registered as an athlete on Hangastar.)

https://www.usat.hangastar.com/login.aspx


----------



## Jaeimseu (Aug 7, 2017)

I believe ITF and ATA can both convert to a USAT dan cert for a fee, maybe $50. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## andyjeffries (Aug 8, 2017)

Or even better, you could convert an ITF dan certificate to a Kukkiwon one ;-)


----------



## Jaeimseu (Aug 8, 2017)

andyjeffries said:


> Or even better, you could convert an ITF dan certificate to a Kukkiwon one ;-)



Agreed. That's even better. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------

