# Ever broken someone?



## luigi_m_ (Apr 28, 2006)

Right, as Martial Arts is about self defence, as well as fitness, self-balance, co-ordination, and of course fun, have you ever really hurt someone, like broken their bones in a fight? This can be inside of outside the dojo, just tell me your stories (especially if they are gorey).

Or, have YOU ever been a victim of a broken bone/wrist/[other], eg, someone has thrown you incorrectly and you weren't able to make a ukemi (fall), or punched someone and done more damage to yourself?


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## Hand Sword (Apr 28, 2006)

I'll just say...Coming from the inner city, I have really hurt people quite a few times. I could write pages of stories of what I did, or seen. However, I don't like to discuss such things. (I don't apologize for them either. What was done had to be done.) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





I'll also say that I have lost many friends to the prison system, as well as the graveyard. RIP Boys!


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## Ross (Apr 28, 2006)

Hand Sword said:
			
		

> I'll just say...Coming from the inner city, I have really hurt people quite a few times. I could write pages of stories of what I did, or seen. However, I don't like to discuss such things. (I don't apologize for them either. What was done had to be done.)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Salute!


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## WingChun Lawyer (Apr 28, 2006)

Well, I almost broke a guy´s nose during a sparring match, but I am afraid that does not quite fit the definition of gorey - although, to be fair, there was an awful lot of blood involved.


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## 7starmantis (Apr 28, 2006)

I've had minor things from time to time happen, I've broken a few ribs of fighting partners as well as had a few cracked ribs, small injuries myself. Anything that happened in a real situation I didn't hang around long enough to see if they had broken anything 

7sm


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## terryl965 (Apr 28, 2006)

Knee surgery, cracked wrist, rib broken, a couple af arm breaks as well, let just say everything has hurt one time or another.
Terry


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## beau_safken (Apr 28, 2006)

I think just a pinky toe.  Was sparring with a guy, he tried to do a roundhouse, but I punched his leg before it could hit me.  He fell back on his foot and twisted his pinky toe all the way around, snap.  

I think thats about it... Don't really have a lot of injuries under my belt of giving or receiving.


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## bobster_ice (Apr 28, 2006)

luigi_m_ said:
			
		

> Right, as Martial Arts is about self defence, as well as fitness, self-balance, co-ordination, and of course fun, have you ever really hurt someone, like broken their bones in a fight? This can be inside of outside the dojo, just tell me your stories (especially if they are gorey).
> 
> Or, have YOU ever been a victim of a broken bone/wrist/[other], eg, someone has thrown you incorrectly and you weren't able to make a ukemi (fall), or punched someone and done more damage to yourself?


 
This happened about 1-2 years ago.

Well...I have really hurt somebody once and I will tell the whole story.

I went into belfast(the city) to do some shopping for my mum, everything was all fine, no bother or bombs. I met this guy called Chris, he seemed a nice guy, too nice... I was just about to go home, disappointed(sp?) as I couldnt find a shop that sold nirvana t-shirts, which sucked because I loved nirvana at the time.

Chris took me down this alley way that lead into the "screwed up" part of belfast. He took me to one of his friends and introduced me to him, I said hi and started talking to him(I am a very talkitive person). He seem a decent person. Jay (the guy that chris introduced me to) took me to a shop that sold stuff to do with any type of rock..YAY!!  I got my first nirvana T-shirt. Well that was ok, I was happy and was just about to get the bus home... Chris and Jay BOTH pulled a knife on me, I was scared, I only knew one technique to disarm someone with a knife, and these guys were way bigger nd stronger than me.

Chris, with his kinfe, tried to hurt me, but of course, I remebered my Karate and Tai jitsu, and I "kicked his ***" so badly.

Jay decided to try and get me with his knife, but I remebered a wrist lock that my dad showed me and I tried it out of Jay,lol, He screamed like a baby, it was so funny. Although it happened 1-2 years ago, I can remember it as if it happened yesterday, it was actaully the scariest moment of my life.

Chris had a broken nose, and his whole face was covered in blood, Jay has his arm broken in 2 places(well he did deserve it).

Before that happened, I never knew that doing Martial Arts would be so affective, in other words I never knew that I could do so much damage to people who are 2-3 years older than me when I was 12.

Darn, I feel so proud,

Bobby


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## bluemtn (Apr 30, 2006)

Recently, I whacked someone in my class hard on their thumb when we were practicing with Escrima sticks, I've also clashed shins with 2 other people while sparring.  That's pretty much all I've done- sorry there's nothing gorey.


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## Brandon Fisher (Apr 30, 2006)

The worst I ever did is I came very close to breaking someones shoulder when they pulled a knife on me.  It did put them in a sling though.


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## Sam (May 1, 2006)

You seem unduely excited about this; wanting stories that are especially gore-ladden. 

The martial arts aren't about hurting people... yes, it does happen... but the way you phrase your post is quite disconcerting.

You demand to be told stories, rather than asking... and not for any particular reason, such as how to avoid training injuries or how to be prepared for the street... it seems to be morbid curiousity.

Maybe I'm being waspish because its 3 am, I don't know...

There are also already threads on this topic.


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## Jenna (May 1, 2006)

Sam said:
			
		

> You seem unduely excited about this; wanting stories that are especially gore-ladden.
> 
> The martial arts aren't about hurting people... yes, it does happen... but the way you phrase your post is quite disconcerting.
> 
> ...


Waspish or not, those are very good points! I for one, agree totally. 

I mean no disrespect to anyone but I have found in my experience that sometimes those who seek glorification of gore are those who aren't getting hit enough in their dojos and metaphorically hit enough in their lives.

Whether yours or somebody elses, blood and broken bones aren't funny. This is not the movies.

My advice for those advocates of bloodshed would be go train a bit harder in their arts. Take plenty of hits, see your own blood and someone elses then maybe your need will diminish.

The martial arts are fantastic, let's not besmirch the arts' well-deserved reputation for respect by trying to promote bloodthirsty attitudes that should be dumped out with Hollywood.

Yr most obdt hmble svt,
Jenna


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## tshadowchaser (May 1, 2006)

In my years of training there have been a few times when someone I was working with has broken a bone.   There have been times when I got one broke.  it was never intentionaly. Toes, and fingers get broke all the time it may be because they get stepped on or you have an open hand (when it should have been closed) these things are usualy called accidents.
 Haveing also lived in the city for a while I will say that yes things happen there and people get hurt and if you have to use what you know it is to protect yourslef


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## Carol (May 1, 2006)

Sam said:
			
		

> You seem unduely excited about this; wanting stories that are especially gore-ladden.
> 
> The martial arts aren't about hurting people... yes, it does happen... but the way you phrase your post is quite disconcerting.
> 
> ...


 

Good point Sam, and you are not being waspish.

Personally, I'm not a person that is comfortable with hurting something.  It is not something that I would do intentionally...not physically, mentally, or emotionally.  

I hurt someone.  I feel horrible about it.  It shouldn't have happened.  When faced with a decision, I chose wrong.  I am a beginner and made a beginner mistake...but even so, I had the power to prevent it and I didn't when I made a bad choice.

I can't think of a much worse feeling than watching someone suffering, knowing that I caused it, and knowing that it didn't have to happen.


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## crushing (May 1, 2006)

Back in school during lunch I broke some guys hand with the side of my face during a lunchtime fight.  I couldn't see a half minute, but he was in a cast for a couple months.  I didn't feel sorry for that bully.

The only other time I broke someone was not in a fight, but while playing goalie in a soccer league.  I broke another person's leg.  I was a goalie and he was trying to score.  He was on a breakaway and the ball got a little too far in front of him.  I jumped to grab the ball as he went to kick the ball and I think he may have kicked my arm, or I grabbed his leg with the ball or something.  Anyway, I felt really bad about that one.

So far in MA, it has only been normal bumps and bruises.


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## Brandon Fisher (May 2, 2006)

The incidents I have experienced I feel are very unfortunate and should have never happened but they did so I did what was nesscery to end it and thats it.


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## Hand Sword (May 2, 2006)

Very well said. That's all that should be said regarding a thread like this. I don't mean to bash, But, for those of us that have these real experiences, that can answer a thread like this, it's very difficult to talk about it.

Respect.


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## thescottishdude (May 2, 2006)

the only damage I've had is sprained fingers and chipped the bones on a few fingers, which makes them swell up and turn purpule for about 4 days.....


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## HKphooey (May 2, 2006)

I have broken my own ribs (couple of times) and broke a sparring partners ribs.  I felt really bad about the incident.  Almost stopped training because of it.  Luckily my sparring partner went out of his way to make sure I knew it was an accident.


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## WingChun Lawyer (May 2, 2006)

I believe this thread is necessary.

It is important to know how our fellow martial artists have dealt with the injuries they cause and suffered, and what kind of injuries are common in our hobby.

I can´t see how honestly trading relevant experiences can relate to a supposed "glorification of violence".


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## ChrisWTK (May 2, 2006)

I've twice, prior to starting martial arts, broken someone's bone. Both were the same situation. It was while playing a game, I think one was ultimate frisbee and the other was european handball, both guys were bigger than me and I not looking where I was running slammed into them. One broke his ankle the other broke his wrist. The one time I got a concussion, but I still walked away without injury.

The worst I've had was a sprained ankle I got during a softball game. I actually continued playing the game since I didn't tell the coach I had gotten hurt. I have a tendency to just walk an injury off and fighting through the pain.


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## still learning (May 2, 2006)

Hello, Many years ago, just a blue belt than, we had a special Seminar on the Big Island.  This was the first time our Professor and his top Instructors were coming for this special session. At the time there was 5 Universal  Kempo schools here on the Big Island and our first time to meet the Professor and his top Instructors. (many of us)

We had rented a retreat on a cattle ranch and use the pastures area for training and the club house. Camping outside in tents for three nights and two days.  

On the very first night...I was unloading from my 4x4 lifted P/U...and was ready to  jump down...grab the wrong bar and slip...breaking by wrist bone...My Instructor and another friend drove me to the Hospital..stay over night and came back the next morning....with pain killers.  Arm in a sling.

The doctor had schudule an operation later that week.  Today I  have two titanium plates with 12 screws in my left arm and wrist.  This wrist does not bend like before....The wrist bone was shatter to pieces.

I stay for the whole Seminar....the training was great..but the spiritual side unforgetable....many of us were change...we share alot of personal things with each other....mental growth here....we became ONE.

Today all of the Instructors that were there....are like best friends...to us....including the Professor.  It was something special and unique! ...Aloha

PS: I hope one day I can share the X-rays......?


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## Rich Parsons (May 3, 2006)

luigi_m_ said:
			
		

> Right, as Martial Arts is about self defence, as well as fitness, self-balance, co-ordination, and of course fun, have you ever really hurt someone, like broken their bones in a fight? This can be inside of outside the dojo, just tell me your stories (especially if they are gorey).
> 
> Or, have YOU ever been a victim of a broken bone/wrist/[other], eg, someone has thrown you incorrectly and you weren't able to make a ukemi (fall), or punched someone and done more damage to yourself?




I have never been broken. I have been dented a few times.  

As to breaking or denting others, depends upon the time and place. Lots of examples outside of the class room training. A few inside the training hall. 

One comes to mind for myself, is I missed the block and being out of place by " Just that much, of a spin heel kick. I caught it in the rib. The rib popped out, and then back in. I had it X-Rayed and the doc could see ntohing or feel anything either. 

Another one in class deals with multiple person training. I was one of the multiple people attacking a peron already at a disavdantage with their back against a wall. As they tried to come off the wall I tried to tie him up. With multiple people he tripped and I had his head wrapped in my arm. So I slid back as he cam forward and allowed his head to move through where I then tied him back up around the shoulder. Well when we landed, his shoulder separated. Not a good sound as all the wind left him and this slight popping sound with a grating sound and I could feel a little rattle. He still trains today, so it did not take him out of the game, but he was young and healed well. 

A third one was for my second test where I was doing some throws. The upper belt I was working with insisted on resisting and which forced me to actually do the technique. He rolled and would get back up and we would go again. After a few the instructor(s) asked him he needed a break. He replied No. After the test he went home and never came back. He had hyper extended both of his shoulders and one of his elbows. 

This was a major learning experience for me. I learned that if you are hurt you tell someone.


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## swiftpete (May 3, 2006)

crushing said:
			
		

> Back in school during lunch I broke some guys hand with the side of my face during a lunchtime fight. I couldn't see a half minute, but he was in a cast for a couple months. I didn't feel sorry for that bully.
> 
> The only other time I broke someone was not in a fight, but while playing goalie in a soccer league. I broke another person's leg. I was a goalie and he was trying to score. He was on a breakaway and the ball got a little too far in front of him. I jumped to grab the ball as he went to kick the ball and I think he may have kicked my arm, or I grabbed his leg with the ball or something. Anyway, I felt really bad about that one.
> 
> So far in MA, it has only been normal bumps and bruises.


 
The face attacking fist move sounds interesting..! Funnily enough I could do that move really well before i even started martial arts. We must be naturals!


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## still learning (May 4, 2006)

Hello, During World War 2, The Amercan Japanese soldiers who fought in  Europe...had a saying...in Pigeon english " GO FOR BROKE".

When these soldiers (many from Hawaii) fought the Germans soldiers, they would charge at them and say ''GO FOR BROKE"

...MEANING... Go all out until broken or killed. The 100th division..were the most decorated unit from WWII.  My best friend uncle was a member of the unit and retire a Colonal from the USA Army.

Today many of us remember this saying....because in martial arts...when you do get into a fight....you say to yourself..."GO FOR BROKE" .....Aloha


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## shesulsa (May 4, 2006)

I was grappling with my instructor - he had mount and I was trying to get out from under.  I placed the heel of my palm on his ribcage and lifted my hips a bit and tried to lever out when I felt his rib roll out of place and back in again.  Gross feeling and sound.  

Turns out the rib seperated from the cartilage and rolled out of joint, then rolled back in.  He was in a great deal of pain and couldn't lay on his back or side for quite some time.  

I won't forget that.  I'm quite certain he won't let me forget it, either. 

:asian:


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## Rich Parsons (May 4, 2006)

shesulsa said:
			
		

> I was grappling with my instructor - he had mount and I was trying to get out from under. I placed the heel of my palm on his ribcage and lifted my hips a bit and tried to lever out when I felt his rib roll out of place and back in again. Gross feeling and sound.
> 
> Turns out the rib seperated from the cartilage and rolled out of joint, then rolled back in. He was in a great deal of pain and couldn't lay on his back or side for quite some time.
> 
> ...


 

That is basically what happened to me. Only I have blocked out the memory of the pain.


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## searcher (May 9, 2006)

Yes to both, on the broken bones.   Not happy about any of it.


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## zDom (Sep 4, 2006)

Once during free sparring, I was dropping a downward hook kick on someone's head -- was going to slap the upper-side of their head with the ball of my foot.

My opponent turned and looked up the split second before it hit, causing the heel to land on the side of his nose. Broke into into a reversed letter "C" and blood started pouring.

He asked me to push it back straight, and I felt terrible, so I put my thumbs on his nose and did my best. We got it pretty straight.


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## KenpoSterre (Sep 4, 2006)

Ouch. Worse injury I have ever because would probably be when I didn't realize that groin guards didn't keep out pain but rather help keep the groin intact. Me kicked an orange belt. Orange belt felt nauseous. Me didn't understand what the pain was. Me now do. Me feel guilty about that. Orange belt didn't pair up with me for month.


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## SFC JeffJ (Sep 4, 2006)

KenpoSterre said:


> Ouch. Worse injury I have ever because would probably be when I didn't realize that groin guards didn't keep out pain but rather help keep the groin intact. Me kicked an orange belt. Orange belt felt nauseous. Me didn't understand what the pain was. Me now do. Me feel guilty about that. Orange belt didn't pair up with me for month.


I've never broken anyones bones, but I have dislocated someones shoulder a few years back.


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## Perpetual White Belt (Sep 4, 2006)

I snapped someone's wrist during sparring when he blocked my roundhouse kick.


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## Xue Sheng (Sep 4, 2006)

Very likely but I am not proud of it and it was when I was young and in a fight outside of the MA school and it is not a good memory and that is as much as I am going to say.

I will however talk about breaking my own ankle doing a Shaolin Staff form. Suffice to say I just didn't jump high enough and much to my surprise you ankle can bend in the other direction.


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## searcher (Sep 4, 2006)

I have broken opponents noses, collar bones, arms and cheek bones in the classroom.   On the street I have always tried to not be around to find out if they had anything broken.   Has always seemed better to not be there after, for varying reasons.


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## KenpoSterre (Sep 4, 2006)

how come you hurt so many people? Isnt that a sign of carelessness?


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## Sam (Sep 4, 2006)

I don't think he meant to do it, sterre.

Your post sounded quite harsh. Accidents do happen. And he is a 4th degree black belt. He has been training a VERY long time.
Training did not used to be so controlled in the past as it is today.


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## KenpoSterre (Sep 4, 2006)

i am sorry. I didn't realize it sounded so harsh. I hadn't looked at his profile and thought he was a begginner or something. I am sorry. Please excuse my careless behavior.  I hadn't taken the time to read his profile. I thought he was one of the people that just wack everybody. He is high ranking so it makes sense that in his training he has accidentaly hurt several people. I am very sorry. Please except my apologies.


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## tshadowchaser (Sep 4, 2006)

I once put my top student ( at the time) in the hospital and out of work by kicking him in the thigh and distroying his knee with the resulting mucsle contractions. Ligiments  and tendons react funny sometimes under stress.  I was and am not proud of hurting him but I did learn that a properly placed kick can do a lot of damage with little force.  Accidents happen in most schools at one time or another and people get hurt. The harder one trains the more chance of something bad happening over the course of the years


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## zDom (Sep 4, 2006)

KenpoSterre said:


> Ouch. Worse injury I have ever because would probably be when I didn't realize that groin guards didn't keep out pain but rather help keep the groin intact. Me kicked an orange belt. Orange belt felt nauseous. Me didn't understand what the pain was. Me now do. Me feel guilty about that. Orange belt didn't pair up with me for month.



One of the guys I trained TKD seemed to have a "foot magnet" in his crotch.

Every time we got a new girl in class, she would kick him there.


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## zDom (Sep 4, 2006)

tshadowchaser said:


> I once put my top student ( at the time) in the hospital and out of work by kicking him in the thigh and distroying his knee with the resulting mucsle contractions. Ligiments  and tendons react funny sometimes under stress.  I was and am not proud of hurting him but I did learn that a properly placed kick can do a lot of damage with little force.  Accidents happen in most schools at one time or another and people get hurt. The harder one trains the more chance of something bad happening over the course of the years



That's why I've always avoided training / competing in arts and competitions that allow kick contact below the waist.

If you can kick waist high or higher, dropping kick to thigh or knee is easy enough (we still do air-kicks at those target levels).

But absorbing kicks at that level? No thanks. I LIKE my ligaments, tendons and joints in my legs they way they are: uninjured.


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## chris_&#3617;&#3623;&#3618;&#3652;&#3607;&#3618; (Sep 4, 2006)

ive nearly given my mate a nose bleed , we were fighting  , and he smacked me over the head with a bean bag that you sit on (hurt more than you would think atualy) and i kicked him in the nose and he was crying/laughing at the same time , with a huge nose bleed , fun!


chris


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## searcher (Sep 4, 2006)

KenpoSterre said:


> how come you hurt so many people? Isnt that a sign of carelessness?


 

Never my intent to hurt anyone in the classroom.   One with a broken arm, he tried block a spinning back kick with his arm and even though the technique was pulled it still broke his arm.   Noses are very easy to break and during our 50 man fight during testing it is very common to get careless when you are dead tired.


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## searcher (Sep 4, 2006)

Sam said:


> And he is a 4th degree black belt. He has been training a VERY long time.


 
I am actually now a 6th degree.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			






I don't feel like it has been that long.  you are making me feel old.:erg:


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## KenpoSterre (Sep 4, 2006)

I have a tendency to do that one here. 

Yeah I was careless when I typed that. Since my worst injury(in Karate) was bruised shins and bruises and minor concussions, broken bones seem very well big. Sorry for what I said though.


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## tradrockrat (Sep 4, 2006)

WingChun Lawyer said:


> I believe this thread is necessary.
> 
> It is important to know how our fellow martial artists have dealt with the injuries they cause and suffered, and what kind of injuries are common in our hobby.
> 
> I can´t see how honestly trading relevant experiences can relate to a supposed "glorification of violence".



He didn't ask how we dealt with it - he asked for a gory story.  There is a substantial difference.  For example - I visited the two men in the hospital despite being told not to by the police and asked their forgiveness because I felt so bad about what had happened.  It was traumatic, but you don't need to know the story to know that.  I dealt with it by moving on and promising myself to train harder to be able to use less violence in a self defense situation.  In time, this event led me to the very real understanding that my environment is largely my choice - I had the freedom to avoid it and move somewhere safer to live.


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## Ciprian Vali (Sep 4, 2006)

I once accidently dislocated mans shoulder when I was in a Match


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## matt.m (Sep 4, 2006)

I was involved in hand to hand overseas while in the Marines doing duty for uncle bill.  However, and I cannot stress this enough.  Violence performed in duty to help others or the duty to one's country while deployed in harms way is way different than getting into a fight at the bar.

Speaking of, I have not been in what I would call a fight since leaving active duty in 1997.


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## terry_gardener (Sep 10, 2006)

it was in the paper couple of months ago that a woman was attacked by 4 lads, the woman was a black belt (but cant remember which art) the 4 lads that attacked her ended up on the floor in pain, one lad even had a broken leg. so the woman phoned the police to let them know that she has just been attacked and they where on the floor needing some medical attention and also said that she was a black belt. 

In the polices investigations afterwards the lad with the broken leg wanted to press charges on the woman for braking his leg and the police told him that he didn't have a leg to stand on (no pun intended) with this claim as he attacked her and she was only using reasonable force.


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## tradrockrat (Sep 10, 2006)

terry_gardener said:


> it was in the paper couple of months ago that a woman was attacked by 4 lads, the woman was a black belt (but cant remember which art) the 4 lads that attacked her ended up on the floor in pain, one lad even had a broken leg. so the woman phoned the police to let them know that she has just been attacked and they where on the floor needing some medical attention and also said that she was a black belt.
> 
> In the polices investigations afterwards the lad with the broken leg wanted to press charges on the woman for braking his leg and the police told him that he didn't have a leg to stand on (no pun intended) with this claim as he attacked her and she was only using reasonable force.



That is a wonderful story - especially in this age of rediculous litigation getting good citizens in trouble.

Thanks for posting this.


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## IWishToLearn (Sep 12, 2006)

luigi_m_ said:


> Right, as Martial Arts is about self defence, as well as fitness, self-balance, co-ordination, and of course fun, have you ever really hurt someone, like broken their bones in a fight? This can be inside of outside the dojo, just tell me your stories (especially if they are gorey).
> 
> Or, have YOU ever been a victim of a broken bone/wrist/[other], eg, someone has thrown you incorrectly and you weren't able to make a ukemi (fall), or punched someone and done more damage to yourself?


Nothing in MA training worse than a bloody nose. Although not my direct involvement, I did have a student stick his foot into the ground and try to move his body weight, in effect dam near snapping his ankle in half. A year later he's back to 90-95% mobility and strength on it.


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## King (Sep 12, 2006)

I have a curse when it comes to drawing blood. When I spar I throw really light controlled punches - but by fluke or unluckiness I often give my sparring partners bloody noses or split lips. I apologize as soon as I see it, they don't even have a clue they are bleeding until I point it out. Most of the time we are both like "how did that happen?" My only guess is maybe it's the angle my punch comes in. But again it's by fluke.

On a more serious note a few years ago a partner and I were working on defensive drills. I reached out to initiate a knee (using hands for leverage) when my partner suddenly ducked (boxing style) and CRUNCH! I can still hear that noise in my head and it makes me cringe. Lots of blood started gushing out of his mouth and he had to be driven to the hospital. 24 stitches inside of his mouth later and I'm still apologizing when I see him.

In a much recent incident I had a swing kick vs swing kick collision a couple months ago. We both laughed it off after the fact but I didn't see the other guy for 3 weeks. When he got back he told me that our collision pushed back his little toe tendons into his foot which made his whole foot and leg swell up. He couldn't even walk for 2 weeks... Before I can apologize he cuts me off with "accidents in the gym happens". So we're cool.


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## Touch Of Death (Sep 12, 2006)

A  visiting brown belt was doing a defense and I recognized a possible flaw. His lead arm was low, with his elbow turned toward me. I pull drag kicked the elbow and sure enough it broke his arm. He left and never visited again. Oops!
Sean


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