# Boxing or Muay thai



## Zephyor (Nov 30, 2016)

I'm a big fan of both muay thai and ive set my mind into practicing both of them. 
I love the variety and efectivness of muay thai tecniques as well as the toughness and condition you get from boxing. What I'm asking is that should i do muay thai first, then boxing to get my punches better, or start boxing to get the condition? the boxing stance and habits might come off as a disadvantage in muay thai tough... ducking punches will get me kneed' What do you thinck?


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## Gerry Seymour (Nov 30, 2016)

I'm not sure it matters too much which you train first. I think you'll get plenty of conditioning in Muay Thai (and if you add in the BJJ you're also considering, that's a lot). While there's a considerable amount to learn from boxing, I'm not sure I'd count on it for better punching, unless you're looking at punching within competition. Boxing technique, I've been told (by folks with boxing training) doesn't protect the hand well, because it's centered around being effective with those gloves. So I'd rather get the Muay Thai first to get good form to protect your hand, then add the boxing to learn new ways to generate power, and to improve things like bobbing and weaving. I wouldn't suggest trying to start both at the same time, because there are some principles that are in conflict, as you noted. Give yourself time for some of the basic principles to become habitual in one, then start the other any time after that. I don't know how long that will take for you - it's an individual thing. For some folks, they'll start to feel comfortable in the first art in a few weeks. For others, they prefer to get a year or two in before adding the conflicting art.


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## Kickboxer101 (Nov 30, 2016)

First did you have to post this twice? Second it doesn't matter just do what you want


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## Transk53 (Nov 30, 2016)

Kickboxer101 said:


> First did you have to post this twice? Second it doesn't matter just do what you want



I'd say boxing first. Learn to punch, then kick etc.


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## marques (Nov 30, 2016)

If I were starting from zero and feeling some urgency to be effective or master something, I would start by Boxing because it is more focused.
If I were starting from zero and no rush I would start by Muay Thai and add Boxing, eventually (if feel necessary).

And perhaps you can get toughness and conditioning from Muay Thai training. Even good punching.


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## Gerry Seymour (Nov 30, 2016)

As you can see, the suggestions are all over the board. Pick the one that you like the best, then go with that one with full commitment.


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## Transk53 (Nov 30, 2016)

marques said:


> If I were starting from zero and feeling some urgency to be effective or master something, I would start by Boxing because it is more focused.
> If I were starting from zero and no rush I would start by Muay Thai and add Boxing, eventually (if feel necessary).
> 
> And perhaps you can get toughness and conditioning from Muay Thai training. Even good punching.



Yeah, but would say boxing first. Got to get those elbows tight first


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## King Kobra (Dec 2, 2016)

I started with boxing for about 5 years with some breaks and now am getting into Muay Thai and kickboxing. In my experience so far being good at boxing helps with your defence up top from punches (obviously) and your ability to interrupt what your opponent is doing with counter punches (my way of getting them to kick less because my defence is weaker here). One big difference between me and others who have only done Muay Thai is footwork, I'm always making angles whereas Muay Thai guys seem to just move in straight lines so this seems to be an advantage for me. My coach says all my footwork looks exhausting lol but I'm used to it so I'm not yet sure if that's a bad thing yet.

On the flip side the others definitely have an advantage with how fluid their combos are that include kicks and they are used to the proper defences. Some of my habits can get me in trouble as well (ducking). Hopefully someone here has done the opposite transition between sports and can shed some light there.


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## Gerry Seymour (Dec 2, 2016)

King Kobra said:


> I started with boxing for about 5 years with some breaks and now am getting into Muay Thai and kickboxing. In my experience so far being good at boxing helps with your defence up top from punches (obviously) and your ability to interrupt what your opponent is doing with counter punches (my way of getting them to kick less because my defence is weaker here). One big difference between me and others who have only done Muay Thai is footwork, I'm always making angles whereas Muay Thai guys seem to just move in straight lines so this seems to be an advantage for me. My coach says all my footwork looks exhausting lol but I'm used to it so I'm not yet sure if that's a bad thing yet.
> 
> On the flip side the others definitely have an advantage with how fluid their combos are that include kicks and they are used to the proper defences. Some of my habits can get me in trouble as well (ducking). Hopefully someone here has done the opposite transition between sports and can shed some light there.


I'd be very interested in hearing that opposite story, too. You mentioned some strengths and weaknesses I hadn't thought about, and I suspect there are both in the other direction. The footwork was one I hadn't considered, but now that you mention it, Muay Thai fighters to tend to move fairly directly while boxers slip off to an angle more often. Some efficiency in one side, and perhaps better evasion on the other. I'll bet that boxing footwork becomes devilish to them once you get the Muay Thai more engrained.


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## marques (Dec 2, 2016)

gpseymour said:


> (...) Muay Thai fighters to tend to move fairly directly while boxers slip off to an angle more often. (...)


This may be true, but it is largely a result of the ruleset. Not purely stylistic.

Thai Boxing has many options in that single line, from teep to clinch. And leg or roundhouse kicks limit a bit lateral movement. And legs are being used for kicks, rather than footwork.

Boxing has a shorter range of options (and distances) which makes safer 'walking' around. And nothing else to do with the legs than footwork.

And then we have K1/Glory kickboxing that remixes them both quite well, resulting in another great style... Go for that and forget your dilemma, OP.


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## drop bear (Dec 2, 2016)

gpseymour said:


> I'd be very interested in hearing that opposite story, too. You mentioned some strengths and weaknesses I hadn't thought about, and I suspect there are both in the other direction. The footwork was one I hadn't considered, but now that you mention it, Muay Thai fighters to tend to move fairly directly while boxers slip off to an angle more often. Some efficiency in one side, and perhaps better evasion on the other. I'll bet that boxing footwork becomes devilish to them once you get the Muay Thai more engrained.



Depends on the guy.


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## Gerry Seymour (Dec 2, 2016)

drop bear said:


> Depends on the guy.


In the first couple of minutes, there's still a lot of direct movement. The guy in the white/black trunks angles to his left a fair amount, but he seems to do it most often when he thinks/feels he's near the cage, so that might just be his habit for staying off the fence. I need to grab my other monitor and put that next to some boxing and see how much difference there is. I may be over-remembering the off-angle movement.


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## King Kobra (Dec 2, 2016)

Yeah there wasn't any real footwork in round 1, the only time either of them moved to the sides was when they where out of range and that was just to keep off the cage. In round two though there was but that also touched on Marques point, there was less kicking in those exchanges. 

Coincidentally I also flipped on the fight network and saw a few glory fights today. The footwork there was a bit of a blend like Marques said. The punching though was sloppy. Elbows down when hooking and multiple straight punches ended up being all arm. The fight between the two girls actually was the best one I saw, they looked pretty sharp, even had some nice slips in there.


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## KangTsai (Dec 5, 2016)

I think muay Thai as a foundation with boxing as a tool of refinement is a good choice. 

About the ducking-head-recieve-knee thing, not really absolute, unless your opponent is that good. If it was the case things like MMA would look MUCH different.


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## marques (Dec 5, 2016)

KangTsai said:


> I think muay Thai as a foundation with boxing as a tool of refinement is a good choice.
> 
> About the ducking-head-recieve-knee thing, not really absolute, unless your opponent is that good. If it was the case things like MMA would look MUCH different.


Knee is only part of the problem. The knee is in a leg. 
Head kick works pretty well in MMA. 'Wrong' head movement or level change will just make it easier and more powerful.

But that is a detail. Boxing is surely a good influence (if you don't fight under Thai rules..). In Muay Thai you just move differently and that's all. After a few kicks or knees it will be fine.


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## drop bear (Dec 5, 2016)

gpseymour said:


> In the first couple of minutes, there's still a lot of direct movement. The guy in the white/black trunks angles to his left a fair amount, but he seems to do it most often when he thinks/feels he's near the cage, so that might just be his habit for staying off the fence. I need to grab my other monitor and put that next to some boxing and see how much difference there is. I may be over-remembering the off-angle movement.



watch right at the end of a combination. black trunks strikes then angles off.

Also angles off during the kicks.

Luckily though ben also boxes so we can compare the differences.


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## Kickboxer101 (Dec 5, 2016)

KangTsai said:


> I think muay Thai as a foundation with boxing as a tool of refinement is a good choice.
> 
> About the ducking-head-recieve-knee thing, not really absolute, unless your opponent is that good. If it was the case things like MMA would look MUCH different.


Yeah only real way it can happen is if your ducking is bad, you're not meant to go really low when ducking just enough to get under the punch


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## drop bear (Dec 5, 2016)

Kickboxer101 said:


> Yeah only real way it can happen is if your ducking is bad, you're not meant to go really low when ducking just enough to get under the punch



You can duck low successfully in boxing. Depends what you are trying to do. 

I find that boxers will sit on these off angles that make them hard to punch but easy to kick. 

Slipping the right cross to a left hook is an example


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## Transk53 (Dec 5, 2016)

KangTsai said:


> I think muay Thai as a foundation with boxing as a tool of refinement is a good choice.
> 
> About the ducking-head-recieve-knee thing, not really absolute, unless your opponent is that good. If it was the case things like MMA would look MUCH different.



Other way around. Learn to punch, then elbow, kick etc. IMHO of course.


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## Transk53 (Dec 5, 2016)

drop bear said:


> You can duck low successfully in boxing. Depends what you are trying to do.
> 
> I find that boxers will sit on these off angles that make them hard to punch but easy to kick.
> 
> Slipping the right cross to a left hook is an example


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## Transk53 (Dec 5, 2016)

drop bear said:


> You can duck low successfully in boxing. Depends what you are trying to do.
> 
> I find that boxers will sit on these off angles that make them hard to punch but easy to kick.
> 
> Slipping the right cross to a left hook is an example



Sorry, this iPad is a pain at times. Anyway, easy to kick? Don't quite get that. Slipping the right cross, maybe.


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## KangTsai (Dec 6, 2016)

Transk53 said:


> Other way around. Learn to punch, then elbow, kick etc. IMHO of course.


I think that having a general, basic understanding of all the aspects of striking is better to start with. Beginner-friendly=\=isolation.


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