# Father and Son Fun Knife Practice Vid.



## Happy-Papi (Jun 4, 2013)

Seems like some dadis are enjoying our father and son videos so here is another. 

This video is originally intended for my brothers in the military and may be tough for others so please don't watch if you are against knife arts. 

This is just one of our afternoon practice that frequently happen when we are both bored. This was originally one of my group's favorite pastime in the mountains when I was training CQC-FMA back in the Philippines. We don't have a fancy name for it and we simply called it "Laro tayo" (let's play) or "Saksakan tayo" (Let's stab each other)... Back then we use live M16 bayonet for training but for my son's practice we are just using a rounded and blunted cheap kitchen knife. Because our group's style was really an orthodox CQC-FMA, our training maybe a bit different and we lack most of the systematic Give-N-Take techniques found in modern FMA that which I wish that I could learn more. Fun to see my son's skills improving and using my techniques against me. He is really kicking my behind, lol! Also notice how a good hand grab can control the attacker's knife from cutting the wrist. Notice also the effectiveness of the sneaky CQC choke when applied properly, just a bit of jerk and I'm down instantly (probably hard for newbies to see but a good FMAer knows this for sure). Probably will be hard to understand what we are saying because we are using Japanese but there is nothing really important to know about. I was just coaching my son, it was basically "hit me, stab me, choke me, grapple me" and obviously lots of laughing. Hope you guys enjoy 

http://father-and-son-ma-training-japan.blogspot.jp/p/for-my-brothers-in-military.html?spref=fb

or  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFNBKISNfMc&feature=youtu.be


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## geezer (Jun 18, 2013)

Looks like fun. Wish I could get _my_ teenage son interested in training with me. He finally started respecting the martial arts that I do (WC and FMA) when his TKD instructor's own teacher started learning WC from our group, but he still won't train with "dad". Go figure.


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## harlan (Jun 18, 2013)

I don't practice it, but have you considered switching out the knife for non-permanent magic marker?


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## Cyriacus (Jun 18, 2013)

Theres a few things i could criticize, but its not my place to knock your training methods. (well, it is. but i dont really want to. you two seem to be enjoying yourselves just fine)

Ill second the suggestion of using markers. You can also buy some expendable shirts


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## Happy-Papi (Jun 18, 2013)

Probably your son is just shy a bit especially that you will see his weakness. When I started teaching my son, often times I fake and let him score but that is after giving him a hard time. Every time he scores, he has this weird grin like saying "see my funky moves dad"  But soon as he got better, I was the one really looking for some slack. I think what got us practicing more together is we try to minimize on the more technical stuffs and just do simple funny stuffs so we can end up laughing. Do you know that we often imitate wrestling, like on TV. Sometimes we just take our shirts of and pull our boxer shorts up so that it will look like we are wearing boomerangs and just imitate Hulk Hogan or imitate some Sentai Rangers. We've been doing that for years and slowly I feel that I'm getting too old and too shy to do it, HAHAHA!

Or get his friends to join in.
Have fun!


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## Happy-Papi (Jun 18, 2013)

> harlan wrote: I don't practice it, but have you considered switching out the knife for non-permanent magic marker?



That is very good advice. I think I can adopt using magic markers for my other students from now on. I notice that most students are not easy with live or dulled knives and often ask for dummy knives, rolled cardboard, or short sticks even if they are only doing it in slow motion... Must learn to adapt to the new style I guess.






Cyriacus said:


> Theres a few things i could criticize, but its not my place to knock your training methods. (well, it is. but i dont really want to. you two seem to be enjoying yourselves just fine)
> 
> Ill second the suggestion of using markers. You can also buy some expendable shirts



Definitely you can criticize. Probably we can use your input and add it to our games  We are not really training here and just having fun and not doing anything technical. We found out that if we do technical stuffs that our practice will only last 30 minutes or less but if we just had fun, it will last for hours. Sometimes I'll share our more technical stuffs. 

About magic markers, I'll ask my son if he is comfortable with the idea. He has been training with live or dulled knives since he was young and that may be a hurdle but will ask him. For me it will be a big hurdle but I guess I have to learn some new tricks  Big question is if we move to marker pens then the ardrenaline and reality will drop??? Plus I noticed that some people are good with dummies but freaks out to shiny objects...


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## harlan (Jun 18, 2013)

I suspect, from watching your light practice, that the markers may 'highlight' some things if used with intent.


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## Cyriacus (Jun 18, 2013)

Happy-Papi said:


> Definitely you can criticize. Probably we can use your input and add it to our games  We are not really training here and just having fun and not doing anything technical. We found out that if we do technical stuffs that our practice will only last 30 minutes or less but if we just had fun, it will last for hours. Sometimes I'll share our more technical stuffs.
> 
> About magic markers, I'll ask my son if he is comfortable with the idea. He has been training with live or dulled knives since he was young and that may be a hurdle but will ask him. For me it will be a big hurdle but I guess I have to learn some new tricks  Big question is if we move to marker pens then the ardrenaline and reality will drop??? Plus I noticed that some people are good with dummies but freaks out to shiny objects...



With markers, you can stab each other full force, and slash. 

Okay, a few criticisms.
Theyre very, very general, so ill be citing sections of the video.

0:00 - 0:10.

1: You werent even aiming the knife at him. I understand that it might be for safety, but look at your own arm. It was WAY out wide as a direct result.
This is why ive suggested markers. Believe it or not, stuff like that changes alot of things.
2: The first defense he does could be circumvented by grabbing him with your free hand, hitting him with your free hand, wildly stabbing with your armed hand...
Basically, the defense worked because you let it work.
3: You tried to stab him statically from a subjectively long distance. Its not the range i take issue to, its the lack of movement.
You take a short step, but youll find that if you actually move forward 'through' him, grabbing your arm wont be so easy and youll be alot closer.
4: You continue to stand still whilst he twists your arm around. 
If you had have been moving in on him in the first place (see 3), even from there you could have been driving him back, and that lock wouldnt have happened.
5: So then, you come back from this by stepping AWAY from him, and doing an outward strike which is not only too far away and not aimed at him, but which you pull.
And then you do the same thing again (all 5).
6: You then do a lead hand strike followed by a thrust which by every right should have got him, except it wasnt aimed at him.
If you did the same thing on a loop moving forward while closer, the results would be a touch different.
7: As he moves towards you, instead of stabbing, you hold still and swing your lead hand at him. 
Basically, when he finally got somewhere you could 'win from', you backed down and didnt even try.
8: When he applied the jointlock, you still had a free hand.

So yeah... that was the first ten seconds.

0:10-0:25.

If you ever get markers, do this again. This time, just tell him to run forward, even if he physically collides with you, thrusting his arm like big haymaker uppercuts as hard and fast as he can toward your body.
Your hold on his wrist wont work quite so good and he wont need to try and work out ways to get you off.

So basically what harlan said.


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## Happy-Papi (Jun 18, 2013)

Cyriacus said:


> With markers, you can stab each other full force, and slash.
> 
> Okay, a few criticisms.
> Theyre very, very general, so ill be citing sections of the video.
> ...



Thank you-thank you!
Maybe old bad muscle memory because of my old training where we used real live knives that we tend to make hits more indirect. 
The knife or knives we use now though dull can still cut so probably this is causing us to do it on a safer distance. 
Yes I often just let him work on me. I find that whenever I became serious and technical to him, he gets overwhelmed. Since this is all playing, we just let things go fun and easy but real training is very different and I can assure that. I think using a marker pen can help with our future training especially with my son since he hasn't been in a real knife fight yet. With markers we can go all the way and not get worried of being cut. 

What do you think about fake dummy knives? I haven't tried using them yet and was thinking of getting a pair but I'm a bit reluctant since I have no experience with them. Do you think that they can be better for training than real knives? How about the fear factor? Fear factor is less with pens and dummies I believe because there were times I was invited to share and most of them had been training with dummies but freaks out when I gave them my dulled knives. Most of them panicked and just froze... Probably best to train with all of these I guess. 

Fun thing with MA is that it is a constant study and we never really reach the peak. The mountain just gets higher and higher as we climb. Time for us to study again


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## Cyriacus (Jun 18, 2013)

Happy-Papi said:


> Thank you-thank you!
> Maybe old bad muscle memory because of my old training where we used real live knives that we tend to make hits more indirect.
> The knife or knives we use now though dull can still cut so probably this is causing us to do it on a safer distance.
> Yes I often just let him work on me. I find that whenever I became serious and technical to him, he gets overwhelmed. Since this is all playing, we just let things go fun and easy but real training is very different and I can assure that. I think using a marker pen can help with our future training especially with my son since he hasn't been in a real knife fight yet. With markers we can go all the way and not get worried of being cut.
> ...



Thing about dummy knives is that theyre expensive, and they dont leave any marks. Marks show you clearly whats happened, where, how, etc.
That said, you can pick up some pretty cheap cold steel* dummys for cheap. Its up to you really 

*If you dont know, Cold Steel is a knife brand. They make dummys, too. Just look around online and see what the shipping's like. It may or may not be cheaper for you than finding some locally.

EDIT:
http://www.coldsteel.com/Product/92R39LSF/LEATHERNECK_S_F_TRAINER.aspx
http://www.amazon.com/Cold-Steel-Classic-Rubber-Training/dp/B000F35U7A
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Cold-Steel-Leatherneck-SF-Rubber-Training-Knife-Knives-/160748642113


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## Happy-Papi (Jun 19, 2013)

Cyriacus said:


> Thing about dummy knives is that theyre expensive, and they dont leave any marks. Marks show you clearly whats happened, where, how, etc.
> That said, you can pick up some pretty cheap cold steel* dummys for cheap. Its up to you really
> 
> *If you dont know, Cold Steel is a knife brand. They make dummys, too. Just look around online and see what the shipping's like. It may or may not be cheaper for you than finding some locally.
> ...



Looks good!
I think the best is getting dummy knives and applying pen markers on the edge. 

The links you added are very helpful.

As always, many thanks Cyriacus!


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## Cyriacus (Jun 19, 2013)

Happy-Papi said:


> Looks good!
> I think the best is getting dummy knives and applying pen markers on the edge.
> 
> The links you added are very helpful.
> ...



Pleasure.


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## Yondanchris (Jun 25, 2013)

Thanks for sharing!


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