# Man defending himself against women



## Kenpoguy123 (Nov 1, 2015)

Now this is always a controversial subject but I want to talk about what happens if a woman attacks a man. Luckily it's never happened to me so I haven't had to be in that situation but I've seen it before and the man defends himself against a woman throwing hard punches and he defended himself yet he got in trouble with the police. 

Personally if a woman attacks me I'm going to defend myself. If you attack me you're starting it so I'm finishing it I don't care who you are or what gender. Women can do just as much damage as men can so that's my stand on it


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## Hyoho (Nov 1, 2015)

I have been attacked by a woman a couple of times. First time round I did not defend myself and was injured. Second time round I also held back for a time but then realizing I was going to come off worst I disabled her. She came around and it took six police to get her in the wagon.


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## Kenpoguy123 (Nov 1, 2015)

Hyoho said:


> I have been attacked by a woman a couple of times. First time round I did not defend myself and was injured. Second time round I also held back for a time but then realizing I was going to come off worst I disabled her. She came around and it took six police to get her in the wagon.


Yeah it must be a bad situation. I mean I hate violence on women and I'd probably hesitate as well but it's got to be done


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## drop bear (Nov 1, 2015)

Take their back control them in a bear hug.

There is a cool little arm lock I do but it is hard to explain.


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## Tez3 (Nov 1, 2015)

Doesn't make any difference to me, I will as happily hit a woman as I will a man _if the need arises_. I don't hold back and only use appropriate force in all cases. I don't see gender.


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## Dirty Dog (Nov 1, 2015)

Gender is irrelevant in an assault. In any assault, I'm going to do whatever it takes to defend against the assault while inflicting no more than necessary injury to the assailant.


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## Steve (Nov 1, 2015)

In what context are you guys being attacked by a woman?   are you being mugged by a complete strangern?  this is pretty darned unlikely.   I mean, sure, cops, bouncers... But just average joes?  Not likely.

Much more likely to be beat up by a drug addicted and/or mentally ill, female relative.


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## Dirty Dog (Nov 1, 2015)

Steve said:


> In what context are you guys being attacked by a woman?   are you being mugged by a complete strangern?  this is pretty darned unlikely.   I mean, sure, cops, bouncers... But just average joes?  Not likely.
> 
> Much more likely to be beat up by a drug addicted and/or mentally ill, female relative.



I took it as a hypothetical, but you will see this thread posted today by Master Dan which relates an attack by a woman.
In my experience, women in the ER are every bit as likely to become combative as men - and are often shocked that it's not tolerated, clearly assuming that because they're women, nobody will put hands on them. And (again, in my experience) they're more likely to bite and spit. Frankly,these body fluid assaults bother me more than someone trying to punch me. Beyond the ick factor, there's the risk of disease transmission.


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## Tez3 (Nov 1, 2015)

Spitting at someone here is classed as assault, an arrestable offence of course. Usually we've had women attack when you've tried to arrest the man she's with, quite often after they have been fighting. Often, in fact I'd say 98% of cases an excess of alcohol is involved when women get stroppy enough to start fighting. I hate the smell of stale alcohol and cheap perfume! Just about every time I got the female anyway, the chaps don't want to deal with the women when another women can handle them.


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## JowGaWolf (Nov 1, 2015)

Kenpoguy123 said:


> Now this is always a controversial subject but I want to talk about what happens if a woman attacks a man. Luckily it's never happened to me so I haven't had to be in that situation but I've seen it before and the man defends himself against a woman throwing hard punches and he defended himself yet he got in trouble with the police.
> 
> Personally if a woman attacks me I'm going to defend myself. If you attack me you're starting it so I'm finishing it I don't care who you are or what gender. Women can do just as much damage as men can so that's my stand on it


I guess it depends on how effective the woman's attacks are and if she has a weapon, as well as the intensity of the situation before she decided to attack me.  Most women (in comparison to men) can't throw a punch let a long fight.  I would still defend myself on high alert as if I'm fighting someone who can knock me out. Slaps, scratches, and kicks to the nuts are equally bad in my book.  I just may not blast punches and kicks as if I'm fighting for my life (can't make any promises though lol). Some women have in their mind that "men aren't supposed to hit women" so their aggressiveness is done with the assumption that the man won't hit them back. They take it as a free card to abuse the man and he's supposed to just take it.  They  women that do this don't think they can beat man in a fight, but they just assume that they can get away with hitting him.  There are other situations where I would blast punches and kicks as if I'm fighting for my life and I wouldn't factor nor care if the person is a woman or not.  Some women can fight and if the man doesn't defend himself to the best of his ability then she'll kill him.






To me this is acceptable in my book





This isn't acceptable in my book.


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## JowGaWolf (Nov 1, 2015)

Steve said:


> In what context are you guys being attacked by a woman?   are you being mugged by a complete strangern?  this is pretty darned unlikely.   I mean, sure, cops, bouncers... But just average joes?  Not likely.
> 
> Much more likely to be beat up by a drug addicted and/or mentally ill, female relative.


LOL  it's all relative to the environment that you live in or live near. Women do violent crimes too.


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## Steve (Nov 1, 2015)

Dirty Dog said:


> I took it as a hypothetical, but you will see this thread posted today by Master Dan which relates an attack by a woman.
> In my experience, women in the ER are every bit as likely to become combative as men - and are often shocked that it's not tolerated, clearly assuming that because they're women, nobody will put hands on them. And (again, in my experience) they're more likely to bite and spit. Frankly,these body fluid assaults bother me more than someone trying to punch me. Beyond the ick factor, there's the risk of disease transmission.


Yeah, I get that in some professional occupations, you are at higher risk from this, and said as much.   Outside of this, I don't see it.  And I don't buy the account in the other thread, at least not at face value.  

Ultimately, I think we at least need to be more specific.  Are you defending yourself from a drunk woman at a bar?  Are you defending yourself from a jilted lover?  Mentally ill homeless person?  Kid in a high school?  What's the real context, because I can tell you, there is no simple answer here, and most of the hypotheticals are so unlikely that they impede any kind of useful conversation.


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## Steve (Nov 1, 2015)

JowGaWolf said:


> LOL  it's all relative to the environment that you live in or live near. Women do violent crimes too.


Lol... Yeah.  It's fun to make believe but some of these "what if" threads read more like MA fan fiction.


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## Ruhaani (Nov 1, 2015)

Through out a complicated shopping list at her.

Sent from my GT-I8160 using Tapatalk


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## drop bear (Nov 1, 2015)

Steve said:


> Yeah, I get that in some professional occupations, you are at higher risk from this, and said as much.   Outside of this, I don't see it.  And I don't buy the account in the other thread, at least not at face value.
> 
> Ultimately, I think we at least need to be more specific.  Are you defending yourself from a drunk woman at a bar?  Are you defending yourself from a jilted lover?  Mentally ill homeless person?  Kid in a high school?  What's the real context, because I can tell you, there is no simple answer here, and most of the hypotheticals are so unlikely that they impede any kind of useful conversation.



There was a thread where a a guy was attacked i assumed this springboarded off that


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## Touch Of Death (Nov 1, 2015)

If a woman attacks me, I simply punch their punches, and kick their kicks, until they don't want to play anymore.


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## Buka (Nov 1, 2015)




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## JowGaWolf (Nov 1, 2015)

Steve said:


> Lol... Yeah.  It's fun to make believe but some of these "what if" threads read more like MA fan fiction.


Very true. I can't disagree there.  If it's not that then it's a battle of extremes.


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## drop bear (Nov 1, 2015)

Steve said:


> In what context are you guys being attacked by a woman?   are you being mugged by a complete strangern?  this is pretty darned unlikely.   I mean, sure, cops, bouncers... But just average joes?  Not likely.
> 
> Much more likely to be beat up by a drug addicted and/or mentally ill, female relative.



Townsville. Which is just north of me.


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## Tez3 (Nov 2, 2015)

Ruhaani said:


> Through out a complicated shopping list at her.
> 
> Sent from my GT-I8160 using Tapatalk




I take it that passes as 'humour' where you are from?


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## Tez3 (Nov 2, 2015)

Touch Of Death said:


> If a woman attacks me, I simply punch their punches, and kick their kicks, until they don't want to play anymore.



While hoping she's not a better fighter than you I assume.


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## Touch Of Death (Nov 2, 2015)

The truth is, I wouldn't hope; I would just assume she wasn't that great of a fighter. I know that is wrong on some level, but you asked.


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## Tez3 (Nov 2, 2015)

Touch Of Death said:


> The truth is, I wouldn't hope; I would just assume she wasn't that great of a fighter. I know that is wrong on some level, but you asked.




Obviously you haven't met Traveller women who fight like their men and as often.
Underestimating anyone who is attacking you is dangerous, especially as often with women it's fuelled by alcohol or drugs which multiplies their strength and craziness. You can find yourself in serious trouble.


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## Gerry Seymour (Nov 2, 2015)

I agree with those posting that an attack by a woman isn't materially different than an attack from a man. I respond to the severity and brutality of the attack not to the gender of the attacker. That said, my approach when the cops arrive would likely be different - quick to make myself clearly compliant, to avoid mistaken impressions.

Women can (and do) attack men they don't know. I see nothing questionable about the account posted in another thread. I don't know if it's a precisely accurate account (likely, it isn't, since almost no eye-witness account is ever accurate - our brains simply don't store memories that accurately), but it is certainly believable and realistic. People sometimes lose their minds over nothing (it's called emotional hijacking - a process of the limbic system that shuts down the frontal cortex and executive processes), and women certainly aren't immune to it. And where you live, work, and spend time can reduce how many of these people you're around, but they sometimes come to where you are.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Touch Of Death (Nov 2, 2015)

Tez3 said:


> Obviously you haven't met Traveller women who fight like their men and as often.
> Underestimating anyone who is attacking you is dangerous, especially as often with women it's fuelled by alcohol or drugs which multiplies their strength and craziness. You can find yourself in serious trouble.


I am actually a nice guy, and don't get attacked by women as often as you might think. However, I think my boyish good looks that make them think they can beat me; so, they did all the under-estimating.


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## Touch Of Death (Nov 2, 2015)

Because I look so wimpy, women often walk up and want to spar, just like the guys do come to think of it, and I always agree. I have made a lot of friends this way, people are strange.


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## Tez3 (Nov 2, 2015)

Touch Of Death said:


> make them think they can beat me



or you are bald and look like an egg?


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## Touch Of Death (Nov 2, 2015)

Tez3 said:


> or you are bald and look like an egg?


No I am 46, and I look like a 23 year old. When I was in the Military, I went to the hospital for some issues, and everyone kept asking for my Dependent Card. I honestly had no idea what that was. I would show them my military ID, and they would laugh.


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## Tez3 (Nov 2, 2015)

Touch Of Death said:


> No I am 46, and I look like a 23 year old.



This is probably not the place to say that and really annoy most of the posters! 
Most people spend half their lives trying to look older and then when they do the rest of their lives trying to look younger. I will venture to say I don't think it's a youthful look that makes people want to smack you around, must be something else?


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## Touch Of Death (Nov 2, 2015)

Oh yeah, it is my attitude, every time!


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## Touch Of Death (Nov 2, 2015)

But if I don't look the part I play, so be it. I'll fight ya.


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## Steve (Nov 2, 2015)

drop bear said:


> Townsville. Which is just north of me.


So, we're talking about school yard fights, then.  That actually helps frame this up quite a bit.  Not exactly what I think of as self defense, but at least specific enough that we can have a discussion about it. 

I also want to be clear that I am not saying women don't get into fights.  I do think that unless you have a professional occupation that exposes you to a large number of women who are compromised in some way, whether drunk, high, mentally ill or in some other way in distress, you are unlikely to ever find yourself in a real world self defense situation with a woman attacker.  I think it's much more likely that, outside of the bouncer or LEO (or some other similar profession such as maybe ER nurse), the only circumstance I can even imagine where you'd be attacked by a woman is if she is a relative or someone known to you, who is some combination of drunk, high or mentally ill. 

And ultimately, in any of these situations, opening up a can of whoopass is probably a pretty bad idea.


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## Touch Of Death (Nov 2, 2015)

Steve said:


> So, we're talking about school yard fights, then.  That actually helps frame this up quite a bit.  Not exactly what I think of as self defense, but at least specific enough that we can have a discussion about it.
> 
> I also want to be clear that I am not saying women don't get into fights.  I do think that unless you have a professional occupation that exposes you to a large number of women who are compromised in some way, whether drunk, high, mentally ill or in some other way in distress, you are unlikely to ever find yourself in a real world self defense situation with a woman attacker.  I think it's much more likely that, outside of the bouncer or LEO (or some other similar profession such as maybe ER nurse), the only circumstance I can even imagine where you'd be attacked by a woman is if she is a relative or someone known to you, who is some combination of drunk, high or mentally ill.
> 
> And ultimately, in any of these situations, opening up a can of whoopass is probably a pretty bad idea.


If you aren't controlling the situation, you are just punishing some poor girl who made a bad decision.


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## Steve (Nov 2, 2015)

Touch Of Death said:


> If you aren't controlling the situation, you are just punishing some poor girl who made a bad decision.


Controlling which situation and punishing what poor girl who made what bad decision?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## The Great Gigsy (Nov 2, 2015)

I guess it would depend on the situation. If it's my wife attempting to slap for one numerous bone headed things that come out of my mouth, I would not respond with force. If however its a creditable attack from a female that means me real harm I'm going to do what I need to stop her feom harm me or a loved one.


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## Touch Of Death (Nov 2, 2015)

Steve said:


> Controlling which situation and punishing what poor girl who made what bad decision?
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You know, that one situation, with that one gal, that kind of looks like that girl on that show.


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## Touch Of Death (Nov 2, 2015)

I don't know if you guys have heard of sticky hands, but that stuff is great for women folk.


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## GiYu - Todd (Nov 2, 2015)

That's why you shouldn't have gotten married in the first place.


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## GiYu - Todd (Nov 2, 2015)

A similar question comes up regarding children.
When I was a substitute teacher many years ago, I had a 4th grade class with a couple students known to have violent tendancies.  One morning one went off screaming, hit a couple fellow students, and then chased another around the room.  I decided to step in between an block the violent kid.  Rather than stop, he punched me right in the zyphoid, catching me off guard and knocking the wind out of me... and continued chasing the other kid.  On his next lap around, I anticipated the punch, grabbed his wrist and did a reversal/lock... aiming him into a chair and holding him there.  He kept screaming and trying to lunge at me, which just tighted the wrist lock each time (although to the other kids watching, it looked like I was just gently holding his wrist). 
He got suspended, but I was worried about legal repurcussions of using force.  I tried to be as gentle as I could be, while still protecting the other kids.  Fortunately, nothing negative came of this, but it's tough when you're put in a situation that you didn't choose... especially when the attacker is smaller and you have to risk looking bad for using force to defend.


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## Koshiki (Nov 2, 2015)

Touch Of Death said:


> I don't know if you guys have heard of sticky hands, but that stuff is great for women folk.



I was actually just about to bring this up, not specifically as a man defending against a woman, but in general, really. The one encounter I've had with a woman was about a year and change ago at a concert. The first clue I had that something was wrong was her hand grabbing my face from behind and raking down across my forehead, eyelid and cheek. (Leaving me to explain why I had claw marks across me face for the next couple weeks, yay!)

Anyway, I shrugged out and spun into her, at which point she fell to the floor. Seeing that it was a woman, I went from oh-sh**-being-attacked mode into, stupidly, oh-it's-a-woman-I'll-help-her-up mode. As I bent down to pull her up of the floor before she got stepped on, as you do, I realized she hadn't accidentally clawed me, she for some reason really wanted to shred my face. Sticky hands all the way, put her back on the ground, and shoved my way across the mosh pit. Honestly, I think she was mainly disoriented and scared, she was clearly under the influence of something or other.

Point being, I think she may have been as much under the impression that she was defending herself as I was, and I certainly wouldn't want to be recounting this story with an ending where I smashed my forearm into the side of her head and then dragged her unconscious over to security. I'm a huge advocate of sticky hands for that very reason, it's a fantastic way to instantly gain a huge tactile ability to defend yourself, while also buying you some time to orient yourself, while also making a variety of grappling more accessible...

Basically, sticky hands is an immensely useful tool to minimize damage to both parties for a second or two, which is great when you're dealing with someone that _isn't_ the 6'4", 230 pound, evil mugger in the alleyway, but someone you may not want to hurt badly, like a friend, a cousin, a young teen, whatever.

That said, I don't find there to be any moral or ethical difference between defending yourself against a woman or a man of comparable size, strength, skill, and aggressiveness. A child versus an adult yes, there's a huge difference. A man versus a woman, no.

In any case, I'm still a die-hard fan of sticky/sticking hands when defending yourself against anyone. For me, it's more of a default, like a ranged striker's guard might be. And an excellent tool for subduing an opponent without breaking them, if that's what you deem to be appropriate in a given situation.


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## drop bear (Nov 2, 2015)

Steve said:


> So, we're talking about school yard fights, then.  That actually helps frame this up quite a bit.  Not exactly what I think of as self defense, but at least specific enough that we can have a discussion about it.
> 
> I also want to be clear that I am not saying women don't get into fights.  I do think that unless you have a professional occupation that exposes you to a large number of women who are compromised in some way, whether drunk, high, mentally ill or in some other way in distress, you are unlikely to ever find yourself in a real world self defense situation with a woman attacker.  I think it's much more likely that, outside of the bouncer or LEO (or some other similar profession such as maybe ER nurse), the only circumstance I can even imagine where you'd be attacked by a woman is if she is a relative or someone known to you, who is some combination of drunk, high or mentally ill.
> 
> And ultimately, in any of these situations, opening up a can of whoopass is probably a pretty bad idea.



In yhe unlikely event?  Ok how many fights do people get into in general? Man woman child dog cat whatever.


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## ATACXGYMCAPOEIRA (Nov 2, 2015)

drop bear said:


> Take their back control them in a bear hug.
> 
> There is a cool little arm lock I do but it is hard to explain.




In California, the above or something like it...which I use...is by far the more sensible and smartr and safer means of self defense. I worked HRSP for more than a dcfade, and have faced more than my fair share of irate female assailants. Some of them armed. Hammering a woman the way we men would hammer an aggressive man is very much frowned upon in general in society; and in my experiences it's similarly frowned upon in the LOS ANGELES COUNTY area.

As a private person, I have been attacked by inebriated high and just flat out aggressive women before, too. Tall, big women who were oftentimes ganxtas or raised by ganxtas. They routinely beat up the average untrained guy around their size or smaller.

Usually I made them quit altogether because my footwork, agility and conditioning was vastly superior to theirs. Keep an aggressor working at a high rate for a minute or more and the average attacker will gas out.

For the 5 times that the above wasn't an option, due to close quarters and blitzkrieg attacks? The many subtle areas overlooked in sport combat is very helpful. Taking a woman's back and sinking in the hooks GIVES THE APPEARANCE OF DOING HER DISPROPORTIONATE INJURY TO THE UNTRAINED AND/OR CYNICAL EYE. In this day and age especially, I don't want to be the Black guy that the police see backmounted on some "helpless" female. Especially backmounted and throwing blows, sinking any kind of lock or choke, or whatever. Especially whil she's screaming and worked up and so are the witnesses.

Blocks. Power Stances capable of repelling and/or redirecting aggressive charges. Elusive close quarter footwork. Traps. Pushes at the hip/thigh area. Tenkan like movements are very helpful here. Especially if executed at ankle height or so. Some of the Afrikan skills that spawned the legendary agility we see in the Afrikan art miscalled "Capoeira"...called in our family " Osun/Yemoya/Olokun fáfá funrayin ko" or "ustadi kukwepa" which roughly translates as "skillful evasion" or sometimes "skillfully evading" [ Osun, Yemoya, and Olokun are incredibly powerful orisha of the waters. Osun is the orisha of rivers lakes etc and is the daughter of Yemoya, Mother of Gods and Queen of the Oceans, Seas, etc. Olokun is the Master of the Deeps of the Waters and Keeper of great wisdom and great mysteries. Each have different fighting styles, lessons Animal Styles, etc although each are of th Water Element. ] 

The self defense skills called upon for escape and evasion, bodyguarding, neutralizing opponents without hurting them, control and pinning, redirection, unbalancing, buckling, trapping and checking upper and lower limbs to prevent her offensives while guaranteeing the successful execution of skillful evasions which eventually wear hear down mentally and physically because of her repeated failures. This is what we need here. Sweeps, throws, takedowns, etc are too risky, in that they may land you in jail because onlookers are largely untrained and hypersensitive to any manhandling of women. Even tall, big women. Even BUTCH women. Get the automatic benefit of the doubt. Whereas we men? Not so much getting the benefit of the doubt.

So. Learn to block. Learn to evade. Learn to move your head.  Learn to control with minimal contact. Learn to apply Power Stances. Learn to redirect. Learn to use elusive footwork, level changes, feints fakes and misdirection.


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## Tez3 (Nov 2, 2015)

ATACXGYMCAPOEIRA said:


> Tall, big women who were oftentimes *ganxtas* or raised by *ganxtas.* .



What are 'ganxtas'?


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## Steve (Nov 2, 2015)

Tez3 said:


> What are 'ganxtas'?


maybe like chavs in the uk?


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## GiYu - Todd (Nov 3, 2015)

Tez3 said:


> What are 'ganxtas'?


 I suspect they are typically thought of as ghetto dwellers, raised in areas where fighting and agression are encouraged. 
They're typically tough to hit in the face due to the rapid side-to-side head movements (which I have to admit, is a decent defensive movement) while arguing.


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## Tez3 (Nov 3, 2015)

GiYu - Todd said:


> I suspect they are typically thought of as ghetto dwellers, raised in areas where fighting and agression are encouraged.
> They're typically tough to hit in the face due to the rapid side-to-side head movements (which I have to admit, is a decent defensive movement) while arguing.



Thanks, I won't get an answer it seems from that poster as he's been banned ...again!


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## Touch Of Death (Nov 3, 2015)

He's cool.


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## Touch Of Death (Nov 3, 2015)

You don't know what's a Ganxsta?


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## drop bear (Nov 3, 2015)

By the way. Two guys grab her arms drag her off. Was my bouncer standard.


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## JowGaWolf (Nov 3, 2015)

This guy does a good job of defending himself against a woman. Sweeps are so underrated.  Sadly they made the guy out to be the bad person.  I don't know where this happened (sounds like Australia), but they need to stop crying about a sweep like that.  He literally used minimum force.

Not sure why people don't think there are consequences to their actions.  Had she been in the U.S. she would have probably been punched or slammed depending on who was working that day.  





This is a sweep.





This is what a sweep looks like when you are serious about it


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## JowGaWolf (Nov 3, 2015)

Tez3 said:


> What are 'ganxtas'?


slang spelling of gangster.


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## Touch Of Death (Nov 3, 2015)

JowGaWolf said:


> This guy does a good job of defending himself against a woman. Sweeps are so underrated.  Sadly they made the guy out to be the bad person.  I don't know where this happened (sounds like Australia), but they need to stop crying about a sweep like that.  He literally used minimum force.
> 
> Not sure why people don't think there are consequences to their actions.  Had she been in the U.S. she would have probably been punched or slammed depending on who was working that day.
> 
> ...


His mistake is not catching her fall.


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## JowGaWolf (Nov 3, 2015)

Touch Of Death said:


> His mistake is not catching her fall.


He slowed her fall in the first sweep but not the second. I don't think he made any mistakes. I think the mistakes were all hers.  For some reason she didn't think there were any consequences to her actions and probably assumed that since she's a woman that he wouldn't do what he did.

Some of the approaches women take with me wouldn't have been taken with another woman because they know the other woman would fight back.  Too many women make the assumption that "men aren't supposed to hit women."   Society makes women to be helpless victims to the point where even if a woman is attacking a man, that the man shouldn't defend himself against the attack.

That lady could have taken an easy victory as it was clear to see that the man didn't want to get into a confrontation with her.  Even when he told her to stop she kept going one.  Had she stopped when the guy told her to stop she could have did her "gorilla chest beating" in victory.  The man would have been more than satisfied with that.  If anybody made a mistake it wasn't the man.  He defended himself without lifting a hand to punch her in the face, he didn't kick in the stomach. And as far as I could tell he didn't do anything out of anger.  We can't say that about the woman.


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## GiYu - Todd (Nov 4, 2015)

JowGaWolf said:


> Not sure why people don't think there are consequences to their actions. Had she been in the U.S. she would have probably been punched or slammed depending on who was working that day.


The fact that women are often allowed to assault men with little fear of retribution, due to being perceived as weaker, just encourages certain types of aggressive women with poor ethics or raised in cultures that accept this behavior, to act out. 
It's pretty much a win-win for the woman...if they beat the man (who doesn't defend himself) they're "tough enough to beat up a guy"... if they lose (because guy does defend himself) they are "victims" and typically it's the guy who risks jail time.
I once dated (very briefly) a woman who kept causing trouble with big guys at a bar... apparently in some warped expectation that I would come to her defense and fight the guys.  I ended that relationship quickly as I didn't relish getting in bar fights as much as she did.


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## JowGaWolf (Nov 4, 2015)

GiYu - Todd said:


> I once dated (very briefly) a woman who kept causing trouble with big guys at a bar... apparently in some warped expectation that I would come to her defense and fight the guys. I ended that relationship quickly as I didn't relish getting in bar fights as much as she did.


 That's so amazing that guys even have those types of stories about women.


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## drop bear (Nov 4, 2015)

JowGaWolf said:


> That's so amazing that guys even have those types of stories about women.



I would have said fairly common. People in general can be pretty violent.


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## JowGaWolf (Nov 4, 2015)

drop bear said:


> I would have said fairly common. People in general can be pretty violent.


I keep telling people that.  People in general can be pretty violent.. Women included. I haven't heard any stories of men trying to get their girlfriends or wife to fight another woman.  I'm sure it happens but I haven't heard those stories yet.


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## crazydiamond (Nov 4, 2015)

I suppose passive restraints or locks...... but some women these days have skills and are more violent then I remember.


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## JowGaWolf (Nov 4, 2015)

crazydiamond said:


> I suppose passive restraints or locks...... but some women these days have skills and are more violent then I remember.


he's got a video for almost every topic discussed on MT lol.


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## Rmada (Nov 4, 2015)

I'll have to admit that video got my blood pressure up. Does no one in the media believe in personal accountability anymore?  The woman clearly was initiating conflict and the baggage handler exercised considerable restraint in the face of her barrages.  She had no excuse to behave that way and for the reporters (and the kids videoing the incident) to make him out to be the bad guy is ridiculous.

On a lighter note the "How to Restrain a Woman" video is awesome! (thanks)


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## JowGaWolf (Nov 5, 2015)

Rmada said:


> I'll have to admit that video got my blood pressure up. Does no one in the media believe in personal accountability anymore?  The woman clearly was initiating conflict and the baggage handler exercised considerable restraint in the face of her barrages.  She had no excuse to behave that way and for the reporters (and the kids videoing the incident) to make him out to be the bad guy is ridiculous.
> 
> On a lighter note the "How to Restrain a Woman" video is awesome! (thanks)



It's pretty bad.  That lady's behavior is actually becoming more common these days.  Some women believe men shouldn't hit women which gives them a free pass for abusing men.  Kids in the U.S. have that same mentality.  The kids know that adults can go to jail for hitting a student so they think it's a free pass for them to abuse an adult.  It's so bad where I live where school policy is for teachers not to break up fights because if the teacher tries to restrain the student, the school can be sued and the teacher charged for assaulting the student.

It's so bad that one parent was mad at teacher who didn't try to break up 2 girls fighting (because it's school policy).  The mother of one of the girls that was fighting said the male teacher didn't have to touch either of the girls to break up the fight, he just had to stand in the middle of it. 


This world is nuts.


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## Touch Of Death (Nov 5, 2015)

A bus terminal guy has no business cracking heads, if he can't catch the fall, don't sweep. It is that simple. Male or female. Get more guys involved if you can't handle a 100 pound female.


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## JowGaWolf (Nov 5, 2015)

Touch Of Death said:


> A bus terminal guy has no business cracking heads, if he can't catch the fall, don't sweep. It is that simple. Male or female. Get more guys involved if you can't handle a 100 pound female.


1. He didn't crack anyone's head.  At no point did he strike her head, hit, or kick her.
2. He didn't initiate the attack.
3. Another male was actually 2 other employees assuming that why they had on bright yellow uniform
4. Other people were there and did nothing about her behavior or tried to help diffuse the situation
5. She attacked him multiple times.
6. He broke her fall the first time and told her to "stop it" multiple times but she continued to attack him.  He even said "please stop" but she continued
7. The witness even stated that the way he was trying to get through to her, and that she didn't want to listen to him.
8. The police investigated her for assault

People fault the guy and say what he shouldn't have done while ignoring the fact that the lady was in the wrong by attacking the man.  But no one addresses the lady's behavior who initiated the violence.
If it was my wife or daughter fighting the bus terminal guy (in the yellow uniform) I would be apologizing to the man so he wouldn't press charges. Then I would have given my wife or my daughter a lecture starting with "what were you thinking?,"  "you couldn't tell that guy was bigger than you?," what did you think would accomplish by attacking him?," and "you are lucky that he didn't strike you like the guy below."

This is what cracking heads look likes


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## JowGaWolf (Nov 5, 2015)




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## Steve (Nov 5, 2015)

Couple of questions.   First, what actual evidence do we have that this kind of behavior is becoming more common?  Second, is it possible that neither person was "right?'  We don't actually have to picks team to side with here.


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## Touch Of Death (Nov 5, 2015)

JowGaWolf said:


> 1. He didn't crack anyone's head.  At no point did he strike her head, hit, or kick her.
> 2. He didn't initiate the attack.
> 3. Another male was actually 2 other employees assuming that why they had on bright yellow uniform
> 4. Other people were there and did nothing about her behavior or tried to help diffuse the situation
> ...


What if was your dead wife or daughter?


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## Rmada (Nov 5, 2015)

Touch Of Death said:


> What if was your dead wife or daughter?



This is the point. If a man was doing the same here insterd of the girl we wouldn't be having this discussion. You (Touch) are excusing her behavior and villifying his solely on the basis of her gender.

Put yourself in the man's place, how would you handle her?


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## Touch Of Death (Nov 5, 2015)

Rmada said:


> This is the point. If a man was doing the same here insterd of the girl we wouldn't be having this discussion. You (Touch) are excusing her behavior and villifying his solely on the basis of her gender.
> 
> Put yourself in the man's place, how would you handle her?


I don't think it has to do with her sex. He may no longer have the benefit of the doubt, but the bottom line is, that was unsafe. Take her to the ground and stand on her hair if you want, but don't make her into a vegetable.


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## JowGaWolf (Nov 5, 2015)

Touch Of Death said:


> What if was your dead wife or daughter?


Then there would be no lecture just a dead wife and the lesson would still be the same.  "A person has to think about the consequences of their actions before they act." Had my dead wife thought about what may have happened if she attacked a man (who was clearly bigger than she was) then maybe she would be alive. 

My wife, daughter, and son are alive today.  Do you know what they have a good understanding of?  The consequences of their actions. I always remind my son from time to time that he has to think beyond Step 1 of his actions.  You know what game he's good at? Chess?  Having the ability to think about the consequences of your actions is just good life skills.   People get on their high horse about that woman's safety, but I didn't see anyone try to calm her down so the man didn't have to deal with her.  Then when she gets hurt because she attacked someone, that's when people start caring.  Maybe if someone would have tried to calm the attacker then it wouldn't have happened. Maybe they didn't because they were thinking that she would attack them. But wait, the man is the bad guy here, so there's no excuse for not coming to the woman's aid.

Point is, people today think they can do anything they want with consequences, then when the consequences hit them, they begin to blame others for their actions which lead up to the negative consequences.


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## Touch Of Death (Nov 5, 2015)

JowGaWolf said:


> Then there would be no lecture just a dead wife and the lesson would still be the same.  "A person has to think about the consequences of their actions before they act." Had my dead wife thought about what may have happened if she attacked a man (who was clearly bigger than she was) then maybe she would be alive.
> 
> My wife, daughter, and son are alive today.  Do you know what they have a good understanding of?  The consequences of their actions. I always remind my son from time to time that he has to think beyond Step 1 of his actions.  You know what game he's good at? Chess?  Having the ability to think about the consequences of your actions is just good life skills.   People get on their high horse about that woman's safety, but I didn't see anyone try to calm her down so the man didn't have to deal with her.  Then when she gets hurt because she attacked someone, that's when people start caring.  Maybe if someone would have tried to calm the attacker then it wouldn't have happened. Maybe they didn't because they were thinking that she would attack them. But wait, the man is the bad guy here, so there's no excuse for not coming to the woman's aid.
> 
> Point is, people today think they can do anything they want with consequences, then when the consequences hit them, they begin to blame others for their actions which lead up to the negative consequences.


If an irate crazy girl scares you enough to use lethal techniques, you shouldn't work at the fricken bus station.


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## JowGaWolf (Nov 5, 2015)

Steve said:


> Couple of questions.   First, what actual evidence do we have that this kind of behavior is becoming more common?  Second, is it possible that neither person was "right?'  We don't actually have to picks team to side with here.


Do you really want me to get the news videos of schools system where I am saying that this is an increasing problem.  Do I really need to publish articles of this happening every month? It's an easy google search and the information is easy to find

It's not about right or wrong.  It's about understanding that actions have consequences.  So don't go slap a tiger in it's face and expect the tiger not do something in return.  If I attack someone, then why should I demand the person that I'm attacking care about my safety?


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## JowGaWolf (Nov 5, 2015)

Touch Of Death said:


> If an irate crazy girl scares you enough to use lethal techniques, you shouldn't work at the fricken bus station.


  A sweep is not a lethal technique lol

How about this.  If you are an irate crazy girl who wants to attack people, then don't go to the bus station. Better yet seek some professional help


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## JowGaWolf (Nov 5, 2015)

Touch Of Death said:


> I don't think it has to do with her sex. He may no longer have the benefit of the doubt, but the bottom line is, that was unsafe. Take her to the ground and stand on her hair if you want, but don't make her into a vegetable.


I hate to tell you. That if he had did that then you would still be saying he's in the wrong.  Then you would be complaining that he stood on her hair treating her like some kind of animal.


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## Touch Of Death (Nov 5, 2015)

JowGaWolf said:


> A sweep is not a lethal technique lol


So if she cracked her skull, went into convultions, and died, what do you call the cause of that?


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## Touch Of Death (Nov 5, 2015)

JowGaWolf said:


> I hate to tell you. That if he had did that then you would still be saying he's in the wrong.  Then you would be complaining that he stood on her hair treating her like some kind of animal.


I wouldn't complain. I know the difference between restraint and dangerous technique.


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## Touch Of Death (Nov 5, 2015)

JowGaWolf said:


> Do you really want me to get the news videos of schools system where I am saying that this is an increasing problem.  Do I really need to publish articles of this happening every month? It's an easy google search and the information is easy to find
> 
> It's not about right or wrong.  It's about understanding that actions have consequences.  So don't go slap a tiger in it's face and expect the tiger not do something in return.  If I attack someone, then why should I demand the person that I'm attacking care about my safety?


They hired big guys for a reason. He was mad and probably poorly trained. Bus terminals are where you go if you want to find crazy women talking to themselves and swinging on people; so, you need the right people for the right job. I suggest you stay out of the transportation business, for instance.


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## Dirty Dog (Nov 5, 2015)

Touch Of Death said:


> So if she cracked her skull, went into convultions, and died, what do you call the cause of that?



If she attacks me, I sweep her, and she whacks her head and dies, the cause of death was her attacking me. 


Sent from an old fashioned 300 baud acoustic modem by whistling into the handset. Not TapaTalk. Really.


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## JowGaWolf (Nov 5, 2015)

Touch Of Death said:


> So if she cracked her skull, went into convultions, and died, what do you call the cause of that?


Her attacking him is the cause of her cracked skull.  Had she not attacked him then he wouldn't have done what he did. Similar to. Don't attack a police officer because he may beat you or shoot you.  Action and consequences.


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## Touch Of Death (Nov 5, 2015)

He caught her the first time, and that just proves he was mad, the second time.


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## Touch Of Death (Nov 5, 2015)

Dirty Dog said:


> If she attacks me, I sweep her, and she whacks her head and dies, the cause of death was her attacking me.
> 
> 
> Sent from an old fashioned 300 baud acoustic modem by whistling into the handset. Not TapaTalk. Really.


You too, should not work around bus terminals.


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## Touch Of Death (Nov 5, 2015)

JowGaWolf said:


> Her attacking him is the cause of her cracked skull.  Had she not attacked him then he wouldn't have done what he did. Similar to. Don't attack a police officer because he may beat you or shoot you.  Action and consequences.


She is practically the size of a child. Treat her like one.


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## Dirty Dog (Nov 5, 2015)

Touch Of Death said:


> You too, should not work around bus terminals.



And you should perhaps reconsider some of your sexist attitudes.


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## Touch Of Death (Nov 5, 2015)

By all means, bash their heads in, if you want to, but don't do this in the name of some company that you care about. Just get out there and do it. LOL


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## JowGaWolf (Nov 5, 2015)

Steve said:


> Couple of questions.   First, what actual evidence do we have that this kind of behavior is becoming more common?  Second, is it possible that neither person was "right?'  We don't actually have to picks team to side with here.


Because you asked for it Articles and statistics
Are U.S. girls becoming more violent

Are our girls getting more violent


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## Steve (Nov 5, 2015)

JowGaWolf said:


> Do you really want me to get the news videos of schools system where I am saying that this is an increasing problem.  Do I really need to publish articles of this happening every month? It's an easy google search and the information is easy to find


I think you would need to also find documentation that it was less of a problem in the past.  Or... wait... are you saying that just finding videos on the internet is proof?  I don't think that will go over very well around here, when someone next posts a video related to a particular style. 

Let me say it another way.  Videos and news articles are only evidence that these things happen at least "some."  How often?  I don't know, unless we have reliable statistics.  Does this happen more often now than in the past?  No way to really know unless we have statistics now and ALSO in the past.


> It's not about right or wrong.  It's about understanding that actions have consequences.  So don't go slap a tiger in it's face and expect the tiger not do something in return.  If I attack someone, then why should I demand the person that I'm attacking care about my safety?


I think it really depends, and I think it really should be a case by case evaluation.  My intent is to point out that there is a possibility that both parties here could have handled the situation better, and we don't necessarily have to take one side over the other.


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## Touch Of Death (Nov 5, 2015)

JowGaWolf said:


> Because you asked for it Articles and statistics
> Are U.S. girls becoming more violent
> 
> Are our girls getting more violent


Do men now have the right to knock some sense into them?


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## JowGaWolf (Nov 5, 2015)

Steve said:


> I think you would need to also find documentation that it was less of a problem in the past.  Or... wait... are you saying that just finding videos on the internet is proof?  I don't think that will go over very well around here, when someone next posts a video related to a particular style.
> 
> Let me say it another way.  Videos and news articles are only evidence that these things happen at least "some."  How often?  I don't know, unless we have reliable statistics.  Does this happen more often now than in the past?  No way to really know unless we have statistics now and ALSO in the past.
> I think it really depends, and I think it really should be a case by case evaluation.  My intent is to point out that there is a possibility that both parties here could have handled the situation better, and we don't necessarily have to take one side over the other.



I didn't say anything about videos. I said articles and statistics.  News articles often quote statistics and provide the resources from which those statistics come from.
News articles #1 Resources

James Garbarino, _See Jane Hit: Why Girls Are Growing More Violent and What We Can Do About It_ (New York: The Penguin Press, 2006); and Deborah Prothow-Sith and Howard R. Spivak, _Sugar and Spice and No Longer Nice: How We Can Stop Girls' Violence_ (Hoboken, N.J.: Josey-Bass, 2005).
Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), _Uniform Crime Reporting Program_, accessed online at www.fbi.gov, on June 26, 2006.
Darrell Steffensmeier et al., "An Assessment of Recent Trends in Girls' Violence Using Diverse Longitudinal Sources: Is the Gender Gap Closing?" _Criminology_ 43, no. 2 (2005): 355-405.
Steffensmeier et al., "An Assessment of Recent Trends."
"Hermione Granger is Turning Girls Violent!" _Hindustan Times_ (May 27, 2006), accessed online at nexis.com, on July 5, 2006.
Steffensmeier et al., "An Assessment of Recent Trends."
Steffensmeier et al., "An Assessment of Recent Trends."
Steffensmeier et al., "An Assessment of Recent Trends."
Leslie Acoca, "Characteristics of Girls at Risk of Entering or Involved With the Juvenile Justice System," _Juvenile Justice_ 6, no. 1 (1999), accessed online at www.ncjrs.gov, on July 4, 2006
Acoca, "Characteristics of Girls at Risk of Entering or Involved with the Juvenile Justice System."
Steffensmeier et al., "An Assessment of Recent Trends."
Acoca, "Characteristics of Girls at Risk."
Steffensmeier et al., "An Assessment of Recent Trends."
Cindy D. Ness, "Why Girls Fight: Female Youth Violence in the Inner City," The Annals of the American Academy of Political and Social Science 595 (2004): 32-48


I've already posted 2 articles. To be honest I don't see why I have to prove what I'm saying.  If someone doesn't believe me then do research, google it, and throw the "truth" back into my face.  If I'm wrong then I'm wrong.  It gets very tiring to do other people's research to provide something that they won't read anyway..

There are a lot of things that could have been handled better.. Like the woman could have handled her attitude better, Like they could have made sure that a woman employee was on duty to handle the situation.  Regardless of what could have been handled better.  The conflict would not have existed if she didn't attack the man.  Life is full of actions and consequences.


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## Tez3 (Nov 6, 2015)

What on earth makes you think 'girls' are getting _more_ violent?
Look, women have always had as many violent tendencies as men, we just have more opportunities to express that violence now. Any ideas you have of women being sweet little things and it's modern society which is making us violent I would throw right out of the window. I really wish you would stop thinking of women as a separate species.
Many fight it hard to think that women can be capable of violence but believe me women are, always have been. _They aren't getting more violent it's just now more open._


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## Northern Man (Nov 6, 2015)

Kenpoguy123 said:


> Now this is always a controversial subject but I want to talk about what happens if a woman attacks a man. Luckily it's never happened to me so I haven't had to be in that situation but I've seen it before and the man defends himself against a woman throwing hard punches and he defended himself yet he got in trouble with the police.
> 
> Personally if a woman attacks me I'm going to defend myself. If you attack me you're starting it so I'm finishing it I don't care who you are or what gender. Women can do just as much damage as men can so that's my stand on it



My philosophy on this: If a woman attacks a man, they are asking to be treated like a man and want to be hurt by disregarding rights of the man. No take backs once the first strike is delivered by the woman, if you don't want something don't do that something to others. This goes for both sides, so I treat both genders equally. If women think they should receive special treatment just for being born that way in an assault situation, they are messed up in the head.


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## Tez3 (Nov 6, 2015)

Northern Man said:


> If women think they should receive special treatment just for being born that way in an assault situation, they are messed up in the head.



Let me put that in a far less sexist way shall I?
If *SOME *women think they should receive special treatment etc.
You wouldn't like it if I lumped all men in the same box ie if men think it's fine to thump women....it should be if *some* men etc


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## Northern Man (Nov 6, 2015)

Tez3 said:


> Let me put that in a far less sexist way shall I?
> If *SOME *women think they should receive special treatment etc.
> You wouldn't like it if I lumped all men in the same box ie if men think it's fine to thump women....it should be if *some* men etc


Hint: In an assault situation.
Where they especially have targeted the man first.
So it in fact already has that "some" in effect but dunno if you deliberately missed the point to cry out sexism.


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## drop bear (Nov 6, 2015)

If you can try not to bash people. Even if they are bad people.


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## drop bear (Nov 6, 2015)

Tez3 said:


> Let me put that in a far less sexist way shall I?
> If *SOME *women think they should receive special treatment etc.
> You wouldn't like it if I lumped all men in the same box ie if men think it's fine to thump women....it should be if *some* men etc



Ok this specifically. Because it is a concept that gets used a bit both ways.  When we talk violent men vs violent women.  We are discussing a small minority of the overall population.

So tes is right here.


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## Northern Man (Nov 6, 2015)

drop bear said:


> Ok this specifically. Because it is a concept that gets used a bit both ways.  When we talk violent men vs violent women.  We are discussing a small minority of the overall population.
> 
> So tes is right here.



Usually it's the woman who thinks they shouldn't be hit back when they attack someone just because it's a woman doing it. Not men and it's already targeting a special group of women by stating the situation so it's not sexist. I'm only asking for you to use common sense here.


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## Tez3 (Nov 6, 2015)

Northern Man said:


> Hint: In an assault situation.
> Where they especially have targeted the man first.
> So it in fact already has that "some" in effect but dunno if you deliberately missed the point to cry out sexism.




No I didn't miss the point nor the one of this patronising post.

Actually it isn't usually the woman who thinks men shouldn't be hit, it's most often the men. If a women is attacking someone because they are drunk, on drugs or generally a violent person they really don't give a monkeys whether they get hit back. Most often it is the men, most women in martial arts will tell you of times they've had problems just sparring with a man because he thinks he shouldn't hit back. Many men will also tell you that while sparring with a women and they get the feeling it isn't right hitting a woman.
This is because of upbringing, boys are taught that it's 'wrong' to hit girls, men are told it's bad to hit women and girls are brought up that can't be violent...even when it would be a good idea to be. Sometimes it's hard to get women to spar and subsequently learn to defend themselves because of this stricture on girls not hitting.
This whole thing is far more complicated than it seems at first sight. Of course the obvious thing would be to bring your children up the same regardless of gender, that no one attacks anyone, that violence shouldn't be a way of life. We do need to stop assigning children a way of thinking just because of their gender.
It's wrong for anyone to attack another, if attacked you should defend yourself with reasonable force appropriate to the situation.


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## Northern Man (Nov 6, 2015)

Tez3 said:


> No I didn't miss the point nor the one of this patronising post.
> 
> Actually it isn't usually the woman who thinks men shouldn't be hit, it's most often the men. If a women is attacking someone because they are drunk, on drugs or generally a violent person they really don't give a monkeys whether they get hit back. Most often it is the men, most women in martial arts will tell you of times they've had problems just sparring with a man because he thinks he shouldn't hit back. Many men will also tell you that while sparring with a women and they get the feeling it isn't right hitting a woman.
> This is because of upbringing, boys are taught that it's 'wrong' to hit girls, men are told it's bad to hit women and girls are brought up that can't be violent...even when it would be a good idea to be. Sometimes it's hard to get women to spar and subsequently learn to defend themselves because of this stricture on girls not hitting.
> ...



One of my points was: "if you don't want something don't do that something to others."
Don't ask for violence by attacking someone because you will get it, trust me. This goes for both genders you know? If they back out after that first hit I give in self-defense, hey conflict avoided so it's a win win for both. But don't think there's holding back so I can avoid creating more conflict. (Of course, only going to hit the legal targets.)


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## Rmada (Nov 6, 2015)

Tez3 said:


> It's wrong for anyone to attack another, if attacked you should defend yourself with reasonable force appropriate to the situation.


This sums it up nicely. It gets subjective though when you start trying to define what is "reasonable force" in each situation.


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## Tez3 (Nov 6, 2015)

Rmada said:


> This sums it up nicely._ It gets subjective though when you start trying to define what_ _is "reasonable force" in each situation_.



Not really. Under our laws (UK) as long as you use common sense you can even use lethal force, it has to be violence appropriate to the situation. If you are attacked by an armed person, whether it's a gun or another weapon and you are in fear of your life ( obviously) you can use lethal force, you can even use a pre-emptive strike. If you successfully fight off an attacker using 'strong' force because you are in fear of your life or fear for others that's fine. What is not fine is fighting off an attacker, putting him/her down then kicking them in the head, disproportionate force. If someone throws a punch at you and you take a weapon of some sort and beat him up that is not fine. Defending yourself is good but going over the top is not.
This is UK law.

"
*Reasonable Force*
A person may use such force as is reasonable in the circumstances for the purposes of:

self-defence; or
defence of another; or
defence of property; or
prevention of crime; or
lawful arrest.
In assessing the reasonableness of the force used, prosecutors should ask two questions:

was the use of force necessary in the circumstances, i.e. Was there a need for any force at all? and
was the force used reasonable in the circumstances?
The courts have indicated that both questions are to answered on the basis of the facts as the accused honestly believed them to be (_R v Williams (G) 78 Cr App R 276_), (_R. v Oatbridge, 94 Cr App R 367_).

To that extent it is a subjective test. There is, however, an objective element to the test. The jury must then go on to ask themselves whether, on the basis of the facts as the accused believed them to be, a reasonable person would regard the force used as reasonable or excessive.

It is important to bear in mind when assessing whether the force used was reasonable the words of Lord Morris in (_Palmer v R 1971 AC 814)_;

_*"If there has been an attack so that self defence is reasonably necessary, it will be recognised that a person defending himself cannot weigh to a nicety the exact measure of his defensive action. If the jury thought that that in a moment of unexpected anguish a person attacked had only done what he honestly and instinctively thought necessary, that would be the most potent evidence that only reasonable defensive action had been taken ..."* _

The fact that an act was considered necessary does not mean that the resulting action was reasonable: (R v Clegg 1995 1 AC 482 HL). Where it is alleged that a person acted to defend himself/herself from violence, the extent to which the action taken was necessary will, of course, be integral to the reasonableness of the force used.

In (R v OGrady 85 Cr App R 315), it was held by the Court of Appeal that a defendant was not entitled to rely, so far as self-defence is concerned, upon a mistake of fact which had been induced by voluntary intoxication.


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## JowGaWolf (Nov 6, 2015)

Tez3 said:


> Most often it is the men, most women in martial arts will tell you of times they've had problems just sparring with a man because he thinks he shouldn't hit back. Many men will also tell you that while sparring with a women and they get the feeling it isn't right hitting a woman.


I'm not disagreeing with your comment as it doesn't happen in my school.  The men spar with women all the time with no problem.  Other than being more aware of where we put our hands and where we punch to avoid certain body parts, the guys don't have a problem with punching a woman in the head. (lol man that sounds bad)

Part of the reason that men feel that way is because of how society looks at men who do it even if the man is protecting himself. For example, some of the comments about the bus terminal employee who was seen as a brute because he swept her even though she was the one that attacked him. 

Keep in mind that It's not only men that have this concept of men shouldn't hit women. There are some women that also think this way.  I don't know for sure, but maybe some of the hesitation from the men come from how they think society will view it, and not understanding that not sparring with a female martial arts partner actually hurts her and not help her.  I grew up as a youth during the 70's - 90's and there has definitely been a big change of youth committing violent acts both female and male. Unfortunately it has increased.  I don't blame modern society or video games, I never have.  I put the blame squarely on those parents and those in society who fail to see that humans are violent and fail to raise children to better control those emotions that make them want to attack someone.

5 days a week I train to hurt people with as much cruelty and efficiency as possible. I play violent video games, watch violent movies, and love to fight competitively. I'm submerged in a life style of violence and I've never attacked anyone, because I was raised to keep control of my violence and not let violence take control of me.  How can people learn to control their violent thirst for violent behavior if they don't even admit that it's there.  The only reason I have this perspective is because I worked 2 decades with children and I've been to youth development seminars and workshops.  I can tell you that all of those books that came out during that time I worked with childrend on how to raise children pretty much screwed society.


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## Tez3 (Nov 6, 2015)

JowGaWolf said:


> I'm not disagreeing with your comment as it doesn't happen in my school.  The men spar with women all the time with no problem.  Other than being more aware of where we put our hands and where we punch to avoid certain body parts, the guys don't have a problem with punching a woman in the head. (lol man that sounds bad)
> 
> Part of the reason that men feel that way is because of how society looks at men who do it even if the man is protecting himself. For example, some of the comments about the bus terminal employee who was seen as a brute because he swept her even though she was the one that attacked him.
> 
> ...




As I said, it's the way *children* are brought up that dictates how this 'not hitting a woman' thing is decided. I did say that women are also brought up this way also.
I have never trained to hurt people 'cruelly' only to be able to defend myself and others as well as control those who I needed to at the time. Cruelty shouldn't come into it at any point.
I also don't see why you are avoiding punching women to 'avoid certain body parts', if a chest is wearing a chest protector which I strongly suggest they do for a couple of reasons, then there should be no problem.


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## JowGaWolf (Nov 6, 2015)

Tez3 said:


> This is because of upbringing, boys are taught that it's 'wrong' to hit girls, men are told it's bad to hit women and girls are brought up that can't be violent...even when it would be a good idea to be. Sometimes it's hard to get women to spar and subsequently learn to defend themselves because of this stricture on girls not hitting.


 Tez3 is right on this about the upbringing.  And about getting women to spar. My school definitely has problems with that.  We have have a 11 year old girl that has the had hitting power of a 16 year old girl since the age of 9.  Now 2 years later we are noticing that she's becoming "more girly" she's now walks around the class as if she's fragile and helpless.  She used to beat up my son in sparring, but now she's afraid of getting hit by my son. She takes ballet now so I'm sure some of the "girly stuff" is coming from there. 

Some where down the line some women get into the mindset that fighting is a "brute thing" and not a self-defense thing, while other women embrace it. I blame society for that as well. Now I'm glad that there are T.V shows and Movies that are coming out showing women kicking butt.


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## JowGaWolf (Nov 6, 2015)

Tez3 said:


> As I said, it's the way *children* are brought up that dictates how this 'not hitting a woman' thing is decided. I did say that women are also brought up this way also.
> I have never trained to hurt people 'cruelly' only to be able to defend myself and others as well as control those who I needed to at the time. Cruelty shouldn't come into it at any point.
> I also don't see why you are avoiding punching women to 'avoid certain body parts', if a chest is wearing a chest protector which I strongly suggest they do for a couple of reasons, then there should be no problem.


They (all 2 of them) don't have chest protectors and we have told them to get one so hopefully we'll start seeing the chest protectors in a few months.


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## Tez3 (Nov 6, 2015)

JowGaWolf said:


> They (all 2 of them) don't have chest protectors and we have told them to get one so hopefully we'll start seeing the chest protectors in a few months.



Now you may regret it lol because apart from protection if you grapple they make surprisingly good 'weapons'. that's why I said I strongly suggest having one. Hard plastic 'cups' put into a sports top are best, you can buy the sports tops with the pockets for the cups to be put in. The hard plastic gives you basically two more elbows!


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## JowGaWolf (Nov 6, 2015)

Tez3 said:


> Now you may regret it lol because apart from protection if you grapple they make surprisingly good 'weapons'. that's why I said I strongly suggest having one. Hard plastic 'cups' put into a sports top are best, you can buy the sports tops with the pockets for the cups to be put in. The hard plastic gives you basically two more elbows!


just great... first little kids feet that seem to only target the groin and now I have this to look forward to lol


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## Tez3 (Nov 6, 2015)

JowGaWolf said:


> just great... first little kids feet that seem to only target the groin and now I have this to look forward to lol




There are interesting things you can do to a groin guard when grappling! I was judging an MMA fight a few years back and one of the fighters, in top position grappling pushed his opponents groin guard away from him as far as the elastic would go, then let go................


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## Tez3 (Nov 6, 2015)

JowGaWolf said:


> She takes ballet now so I'm sure some of the "girly stuff" is coming from there.



It won't be the ballet, dancers are as tough as old boots! For such an artistic endeavour they are remarkably unfeminine, very, very fit and strong though.


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## Touch Of Death (Nov 6, 2015)

So, tell me Tez3, do you think he should have caught her fall the second time? Or is it a free for all, now?


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## Tez3 (Nov 6, 2015)

Touch Of Death said:


> So, tell me Tez3, do you think he should have caught her fall the second time? Or is it a free for all, now?



Didn't watch it.


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## Touch Of Death (Nov 6, 2015)

Tez3 said:


> Didn't watch it.


Well, the guy shows the world he knows what he is doing, the first time, but gets angry, and does the no control version, the second time. Meanwhile, neither officer on the scene looks like they have missed a meal, or is used to paying attention.


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## Tez3 (Nov 6, 2015)

Touch Of Death said:


> Well, the guy shows the world he knows what he is doing, the first time, but gets angry, and does the no control version, the second time. Meanwhile, neither officer on the scene looks like they have missed a meal, or is used to paying attention.




and? To be honest I don't care  There's plenty of stupid around and now I'm retired I don't have to arrest anyone, decide whether it's worth the paperwork or chase anyone, it's bliss. I also haven't seen a fight for two years, had anyone attack me or even swear me even better. so, no I'm not bothered about watching stupid.


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## Touch Of Death (Nov 6, 2015)

Tez3 said:


> and? To be honest I don't care  There's plenty of stupid around and now I'm retired I don't have to arrest anyone, decide whether it's worth the paperwork or chase anyone, it's bliss. I also haven't seen a fight for two years, had anyone attack me or even swear me even better. so, no I'm not bothered about watching stupid.


Hey, what in the world are you talking about? I call you TEZ3, all the time.


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## Tez3 (Nov 6, 2015)

Touch Of Death said:


> Hey, what in the world are you talking about? I call you TEZ3, all the time.



Unless you have been sworn at by an Irish or Scottish squaddie you've never been sworn at


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## rheawaera (Nov 8, 2015)

Touch Of Death said:


> His mistake is not catching her fall.


You see him trying to support her arm during the fall. He stay's very calm.  This womens behavour is not normal. .. she needs to get to the hospitle but when she can get a ride in an ambulace she doesn't take it haha the guys could have helped in any way possible instead of filming. I would like to see an interview with the man defending himself. Very interesting this.

Verstuurd vanaf mijn GT-I9505 met Tapatalk


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## Touch Of Death (Nov 8, 2015)

rheawaera said:


> You see him trying to support her arm during the fall. He stay's very calm.  This womens behavour is not normal. .. she needs to get to the hospitle but when she can get a ride in an ambulace she doesn't take it haha the guys could have helped in any way possible instead of filming. I would like to see an interview with the man defending himself. Very interesting this.
> 
> Verstuurd vanaf mijn GT-I9505 met Tapatalk


Her behavior is very normal, for a bus station. What kind of mamby pamby places do you guys live?


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## The White Ghost (Nov 8, 2015)

Some of the most dangerous assassins I have ever tangled with were women, be careful.


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## Steve (Nov 8, 2015)

The White Ghost said:


> Some of the most dangerous assassins I have ever tangled with were women, be careful.


Yeah.  Evie Frye is very dangerous, but shao Jun was the most deadly female assassin I ever tangled with.   By that, I mean played as in a video game.


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## The White Ghost (Nov 8, 2015)

Steve said:


> Yeah.  Evie Frye is very dangerous, but shao Jun was the most deadly female assassin I ever tangled with.   By that, I mean played as in a video game.


I speak of real life.  Life and death, hand to hand, blade to blade.  One misstep on my part, and my blood would have been spilled onto the pavement.  Until you've looked death in the eye, stick to your video games.


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## Steve (Nov 8, 2015)

The White Ghost said:


> I speak of real life.  Life and death, hand to hand, blade to blade.  One misstep on my part, and my blood would have been spilled onto the pavement.  Until you've looked death in the eye, stick to your video games.


Me too.  I played those games in real life.  Very intense.   I turned the lights off and played spooky music in the background.


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## Tez3 (Nov 8, 2015)

The White Ghost said:


> my blood would have been spilled onto the pavement. .



Don't you just hate it when that happens? It's such a bugger to clean up.

Now as for looking death in the eye, it's Remembrance Sunday today here in the UK, that's the day we remember everyone, man, woman and child who has died for our country and our freedom, it's the day we remember the people who really did look death in the eye and spit in it, so really your little posts of no import about your imaginary exploits are less interesting and relevant to real life as my cat pooing in the cat litter.


At the going down of the sun
We will remember then.


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## Tiger84 (Nov 19, 2015)

Kenpoguy123 said:


> Now this is always a controversial subject but I want to talk about what happens if a woman attacks a man. Luckily it's never happened to me so I haven't had to be in that situation but I've seen it before and the man defends himself against a woman throwing hard punches and he defended himself yet he got in trouble with the police.
> 
> Personally if a woman attacks me I'm going to defend myself. If you attack me you're starting it so I'm finishing it I don't care who you are or what gender. Women can do just as much damage as men can so that's my stand on it


I think I would use some " drunk uncle Charlie" moves on a woman until she has a weapon, then I'd let her have it. You almost have to have the "fear for your life" thing going on to get away with hitting women.


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## Russian Whips (Aug 14, 2016)

Kenpoguy123 said:


> Now this is always a controversial subject but I want to talk about what happens if a woman attacks a man. Luckily it's never happened to me so I haven't had to be in that situation but I've seen it before and the man defends himself against a woman throwing hard punches and he defended himself yet he got in trouble with the police.
> 
> Personally if a woman attacks me I'm going to defend myself. If you attack me you're starting it so I'm finishing it I don't care who you are or what gender. Women can do just as much damage as men can so that's my stand on it



First rule of self-defense: try not to get yourself in this kind of situation)))  In this case: stay away from this kind of women.  If you stumble upon one, run away as soon as you realize she's crazy nut.  If necessary use the good old jab, jab  and right hook


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## senseiblackbelt (Aug 18, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> Doesn't make any difference to me, I will as happily hit a woman as I will a man _if the need arises_. I don't hold back and only use appropriate force in all cases. I don't see gender.



that is true.


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