# bowing to buddah



## drummingman (Oct 24, 2006)

im wondering what this move is,can someone tell me?
i know it may be kinda funny but the name bothers me because im a christian.if there are any other christians here who study american kenpo what do you think about the name of this move and things to do with it and the move itself?
i try to stay away from the religious things in the martial arts that might conflict with my faith so thats why i ask these questions.thats why this is very important to me because there are things that would keep me from studying certain styles.
thanks all.


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## michaeledward (Oct 24, 2006)

It's an advanced American Kenpo self defense technique. 

Great groin shot. 

It has nothing to do with religion.


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## HKphooey (Oct 24, 2006)

Ahhhh, the good 'ole nut cracker!  

You put your left open hand under your opponents nuts and drop your right hand down with a right back knuckle strike to sandwich them. 

Ouch.  I cringe just thinking about that technique.

The bowing comes from the fact you start from a kneeling (one knee) position.


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## OneKickWonder (Oct 24, 2006)

I understand the fact that you want to keep religion out of your Martial Arts. My instructor feels the same way. We do bow onto the training mats and to the instructor at the biginning and end of class out of respect, but we do not bow to anything else. There was a Japanese Jiu Jitsu instructor in our school that taught on our off nights. He was very traditional in the way that his students had to bow to him, when they came in the door, on and off the mats, and to several items placed around the room like dragons and such. The last one being the main thing that most people had a problem with. as if it was an idol or something. But that is the way a lot of martial arts have been taught through the years and if a person was taught that way then they will probably teach that way.


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## Jimi (Oct 24, 2006)

I have seen in Chin-na, there is a technique called "2 Children Worship Buddah". It is a standing armbar accross the body, as the one person holds the arm accross his body with the other persons elbow at about bellybutton level as a lever. While the one person folds over in a bowing position, it forces the other person to fold along with it in the armbar. My friend and I used to do this one frequently, as I would pretend to not be paying attention during class, and he would grab me like a friend forcing me to bow along with the class. So the name describes the technique, get it? No disrespect intended, just having fun with the spirit of the technique, and my friend always did the bowing part 3 times in a row for respect. I can understand that someone may be concerned about religion, but if you feel that strongly, why study an asian martial art feeling that it may corrupt your faith? BTW, we used to call the groin shot forcing someone to bow so to speak, a cup check, LOL. Again, no disrespect intended, I do not wish for someones faith to be such an issue that certain techniques by name or movement concern them about being sinfull or commiting blasphlemy. I do not think such martial practice is of such worry. PEACE JIMI


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## drummingman (Oct 24, 2006)

the reason why i have looked into studying an asian martial art is because they seem to be very comprehensive in a way that i have not seen in other martail styles.
i have looked into krav maga but it seemed to be almost as much about fitness as self defense.
if you know of any styles that do not have any religious aspects at all like krav maga that is great for real world self defense please let me know.


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## Jimi (Oct 24, 2006)

Asian Martial Arts a culturaly from Buddist nations, but for the most part, you will not be asked to WORSHIP BUDDAH. In fact, many Korean Arts are from a Buddist nation, yet many Koreans come to the United States and practice Christianity themselves, setting aside there long Buddist history to fit in. Look at the Krav Maga symbol, it is only part of a STAR OF DAVID, yet you will not be asked to convert so to speak. A Krav Maga istructor will not brow beat you into some other faith, but do not be surprised that while expressing some history or insight, you will here of Isreali histroy, you see? Please understand I am trying to let you see that if someone is very sensitive, they will run into something that might seem to offend their faith. I am not downing anyone or their faith. To each their own. I think Russian Sambo and Systema are fairly void of religious attachments, although they are very coldly military and do not concern themselves with much compasion for an enemy. Hope I helped some. If I mentioned anything offending you, forget or throw away anything or all of what I have said. Trust in yourself and your faith Brother Man. PEACE


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## CoryKS (Oct 24, 2006)

drummingman,
If you haven't already, you might want to check out a book called Living the Martial Way by Forrest Morgan.  He has a chapter on spirituality and the martial arts and, I think, does a good job of explaining how the martial arts are not tied to Eastern beliefs or otherwise incompatible with Western religious practices.  If I remember correctly, he specifically addresses the concerns that Christians may have about this.  And that's only one topic in this excellent book!


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## HKphooey (Oct 24, 2006)

CoryKS said:


> drummingman,
> If you haven't already, you might want to check out a book called Living the Martial Way by Forrest Morgan. He has a chapter on spirituality and the martial arts and, I think, does a good job of explaining how the martial arts are not tied to Eastern beliefs or otherwise incompatible with Western religious practices. If I remember correctly, he specifically addresses the concerns that Christians may have about this. And that's only one topic in this excellent book!


 
Good call! :asian:


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## Sigung86 (Oct 24, 2006)

All these answers are spot on.  If you have a certain hesitancy toward dealing with a particular martial art, due to any religious aspects, there are a number of good Christian Schools out there.  There are several Christian Kenpo Schools as well.

I don't know where you are located, but I think a search for Christian Kenpo, or Christian Martial Arts on the internet might garner some insight for you.

For instance ... Me... I'm in Missouri, however, and am relatively certain that I won't be of any help, but I teach Kenpo to all ages, currently the youngest is about 7 and the oldest is 71.  I do teach at a Charismatic Church and have a relatively level group of church members as well as local police, and some "Heathens". :lol:

Just look around, and if anyone here can be of any assistance, I think I'm relatively safe in saying for just about all of us, "All ya gotsta do is ask".

Good luck my friend.

Dan


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## Bigshadow (Oct 24, 2006)

CoryKS said:


> drummingman,
> If you haven't already, you might want to check out a book called Living the Martial Way by Forrest Morgan.  He has a chapter on spirituality and the martial arts and, I think, does a good job of explaining how the martial arts are not tied to Eastern beliefs or otherwise incompatible with Western religious practices.  If I remember correctly, he specifically addresses the concerns that Christians may have about this.  And that's only one topic in this excellent book!



That is a very good suggestion!  I have that book and it is very good!


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## Brian Jones (Oct 24, 2006)

Remember that the names for the techniques are meant to be mnemonic devices to help us retain the technique.  Thus in this technique the person being attacked is in a posistion like SOMONE would be if they were bowing to an idol.  It doesn't mean we are bowing to a bhudda.  If that were the case, I would have a problem with it, as I am a United Methodist minister.  
  We also should not forget that Mr. Parker as a Morman wouldn't have done anything that went against his faith.

Brian Jones


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## Carol (Oct 25, 2006)

Ed Parker continued with a tradition that was displayed in older forms of Kempo - naming techniques in a way that is short and descriptive, but coded in a way that it would not be innately obvious to a non-practitioner.   A technique that involves latching on to an attacker's arms and seperating them is called "Hooking Wings" and not "Latching on to an attacker's arms and seperating them."

There are a few vocabulary lists that show the words that Mr. Parker used to codify different body parts or different moves.  "Wings" means arms or elbows..."Feathers" means hair...etc.

To go one step further - Bowing to Buddha is a technique, and a name, that has some significant roots in older forms of kenpo.  One of the things that makes it unique is that it references a starting postion.  Most Kenpo techniques are done from a standing position.  Bowing to Buddha is a technique that can be done in case you are down on your knees for whatever reason.  The name was not invented by Mr. Parker, it sources to a much older older Kempo technique.   The name was inspired because it references a position that many Buddhists take when in meditation - kneeling on the floor.    

Hope that helps some


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## Hand Sword (Oct 25, 2006)

drummingman said:


> the reason why i have looked into studying an asian martial art is because they seem to be very comprehensive in a way that i have not seen in other martail styles.
> i have looked into krav maga but it seemed to be almost as much about fitness as self defense.
> if you know of any styles that do not have any religious aspects at all like krav maga that is great for real world self defense please let me know.


 

Fitness and conditioning was always part of the martial arts, and should be addressed by the practitoner if real world self defense is your goal. It will make a difference in the engagement. As for the technique, call it by something else if the name bothers you. It's just a technique, and a name, like all the rest of them.


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## hongkongfooey (Oct 25, 2006)

Dude, would you really give up something that you enjoy, just because of a technique name?


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## Carol (Oct 25, 2006)

hongkongfooey said:


> Dude, would you really give up something that you enjoy, just because of a technique name?


 
Drummingman's concern I don't think is an issue of giving up something he loves, it's more about finding the right fit of an art that he's comfortable committing himself to doing.

IMO its a very worthy question to ask.


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## jazkiljok (Oct 25, 2006)

drummingman said:


> im wondering what this move is,can someone tell me?
> i know it may be kinda funny but the name bothers me because im a christian.if there are any other christians here who study american kenpo what do you think about the name of this move and things to do with it and the move itself?
> i try to stay away from the religious things in the martial arts that might conflict with my faith so thats why i ask these questions.thats why this is very important to me because there are things that would keep me from studying certain styles.
> thanks all.



i'm not christian-but i have to ask-- is an action that calls for you to grab some ones nuts yank them out a bit so you can smash them with the back of your fist while you cusp them with the other hand a good christian thing to be doing by any name?

peace.


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## Xue Sheng (Oct 25, 2006)

michaeledward said:


> It's an advanced American Kenpo self defense technique.
> 
> Great groin shot.
> 
> It has nothing to do with religion.


 
I'm very sorry about what I'm about to say and I should keep my strange sense of humor to myself and I do not mean to make light of his dilemma

But all I a can picture here is the guy on the receiving end of this bending over in pain which could be called a bow and the guy that issued this saying "Whose your Buddha now"


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## Sigung86 (Oct 25, 2006)

jazkiljok said:


> i'm not christian-but i have to ask-- is an action that calls for you to grab some ones nuts yank them out a bit so you can smash them with the back of your fist while you cusp them with the other hand a good christian thing to be doing by any name?
> 
> peace.




Ohhh ... Prolly not... But if it saves your bacon in the midst of a nasty ... Could reasonably call it whatever you want, as long as the intent to protect and defend stays there.


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## arnisador (Oct 25, 2006)

jazkiljok said:


> i'm not christian-but i have to ask-- is an action that calls for you to grab some ones nuts yank them out a bit so you can smash them with the back of your fist while you cusp them with the other hand a good christian thing to be doing by any name?



They said turn the other _cheek_, not turn the other...

Seriously, how far can you really pull these things out?


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## drummingman (Oct 25, 2006)

your right on carol.
jazkiljoc,i don't think that god sees anything wrong in doing the move in order to protect ourselves.
and xue,that is funny.
right on sigung86.


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## bayonet (Oct 26, 2006)

Drummingman,

Make your feelings clear to the instructor before you start. I do not bow to anyone or anything. Not even belt ceremonies. I have been looked at strange as well by some higher ups. But I made it to black without incident and without bowing.


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## Carol (Oct 26, 2006)

arnisador said:


> Seriously, how far can you really pull these things out?


 
Um, Arnisador?

You remember this post about flashlights don't you?

Now...

What was that you were asking?  :boing2:


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## JamesB (Oct 26, 2006)

arnisador said:


> They said turn the other _cheek_, not turn the other...
> 
> Seriously, how far can you really pull these things out?


 
you raise a good point - for someone wearing jeans (very likely I'd say), it would make this part of the technique difficult, if not impossible to 'pull off'...lol


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## Seabrook (Oct 26, 2006)

jazkiljok said:


> i'm not christian-but i have to ask-- is an action that calls for you to grab some ones nuts yank them out a bit so you can smash them with the back of your fist while you cusp them with the other hand a good christian thing to be doing by any name?
> 
> peace.


 

I am a Christian, and the answer to your question is no. However, if I was down on one knee and someone was trying to roundhouse kick, I wouldn't think twice about doing it.


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## Xue Sheng (Oct 26, 2006)

Carol Kaur said:


> Um, Arnisador?
> 
> You remember this post about flashlights don't you?
> 
> ...


 
*OUCH!!!*


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