# Master Michael Wong



## AceHBK

I have seen this guy all over youtube.
Any thoughts of him and his techniques?

I have tried to google but can't find much in terms of background.


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## Sandstorm

Found this little article. Hope it helps.

http://www.budovideos.com/shop/customer/pages.php?pageid=41


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## bs10927

AceHBK said:


> I have seen this guy all over youtube.
> Any thoughts of him and his techniques?
> 
> I have tried to google but can't find much in terms of background.



he doesn't seem to want to give up his lineage.
i have a dvd of his.   it's fun to watch but couldn't learn anything cuz it keeps freezing.   lol


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## Yoshiyahu

I believe he is Yip Man lineage...But i believe Wing Chn Archives has some info on him.




AceHBK said:


> I have seen this guy all over youtube.
> Any thoughts of him and his techniques?
> 
> I have tried to google but can't find much in terms of background.


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## mook jong man

Yoshiyahu said:


> I believe he is Yip Man lineage...But i believe Wing Chn Archives has some info on him.


 
Wasn't he the bloke we saw a while back in some other thread doing the Chum Kiu , and I said he was up and down like a yo yo .
 Because each step he took his body went up and down .

  Which in our lineage is a very big no no. What I have seen of him , I'm not impressed and the lack of detail about who he actually learnt off is a bit suss if you ask me.


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## Yoshiyahu

Hey. your right. that is the same guy. 


Oh Michael Wong doesn't say who his lineage is.


http://www.wcarchive.com/html/sifus/wing-chun-sifus-other.htm#Hung_Fai_Yi_and_Other_Lineageshttp://www.wcarchive.com/html/sifus/wing-chun-sifus-other.htm


Scroll down to Michael Wong.




mook jong man said:


> Wasn't he the bloke we saw a while back in some other thread doing the Chum Kiu , and I said he was up and down like a yo yo .
> Because each step he took his body went up and down .
> 
> Which in our lineage is a very big no no. What I have seen of him , I'm not impressed and the lack of detail about who he actually learnt off is a bit suss if you ask me.


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## mook jong man

Yoshiyahu said:


> Hey. your right. that is the same guy.
> 
> 
> Oh Michael Wong doesn't say who his lineage is.
> 
> 
> http://www.wcarchive.com/html/sifus/wing-chun-sifus-other.htm#Hung_Fai_Yi_and_Other_Lineages
> 
> 
> Scroll down to Michael Wong.


 
Yeah , I looked at the link and it says " He wishes not to say " . 
Which is nice and convenient don't you think ?


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## skinters

he has quite a succesfull dvd franchise,nothing wong (sorry wrong) with that and i got a dvd of his gathering dust somewhere.

he comes through with quite powerfull direct attacks,and uses a lot of the wingchun techniques quite well on times.

saying that,he seems to have jumped on the wingchun dvd bandwagon,he obviously knows a bit about wingchun,but would hazzard a guess he is mostly self taught.


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## bs10927

mook jong man said:


> Wasn't he the bloke we saw a while back in some other thread doing the Chum Kiu , and I said he was up and down like a yo yo .
> Because each step he took his body went up and down .
> 
> Which in our lineage is a very big no no. What I have seen of him , I'm not impressed and the lack of detail about who he actually learnt off is a bit suss if you ask me.



that's a no no for us too.  now i'm curious.  gonna look for the chum kiu clip.


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## Yoshiyahu

_Michael Wong also has some Jeet Kune Do DVD's as well._





skinters said:


> he has quite a succesfull dvd franchise,nothing wong (sorry wrong) with that and i got a dvd of his gathering dust somewhere.
> 
> he comes through with quite powerfull direct attacks,and uses a lot of the wingchun techniques quite well on times.
> 
> saying that,he seems to have jumped on the wingchun dvd bandwagon,he obviously knows a bit about wingchun,but would hazzard a guess he is mostly self taught.


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## skinters

Yoshiyahu said:


> _Michael Wong also has some Jeet Kune Do DVD's as well._



well to me jeet kune do was one mans personal expression of the martial arts so anything to do with it has changed and dont resemble the original concept,its become diluted.

micheal wong's geek kune do DVD 60 bucks


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## Yoshiyahu

Me I only watch his stuff on Youtube...if it aint on youtube I dont want it...But i would pay for Wong Shun Leung and Yip Man's movies.




skinters said:


> well to me jeet kune do was one mans personal expression of the martial arts so anything to do with it has changed and dont resemble the original concept,its become diluted.
> 
> micheal wong's geek kune do DVD 60 bucks


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## skinters

Yoshiyahu said:


> Me I only watch his stuff on Youtube...if it aint on youtube I dont want it...But i would pay for Wong Shun Leung and Yip Man's movies.



wong shun leung,otherwise known as Gong Sau Wong (&#35611;&#25163;&#29579, King of Talking Hands.when you look at all the old masters yip man etc , WSL stands out.they say he was a kind unassuming man,and his wingchun was not just legend but fact.a great fighter.it was only after his death that he now recieves the credit he deserves.they treat artists the same,the work only gets reconised after they are no longer with us .its not well known, that it was wong who give bruce his learning in WC and not how its commonly believed yipman.


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## Yoshiyahu

Yea I would pay $60 dollars for Wong Shun Leung books and videos.




skinters said:


> wong shun leung,otherwise known as Gong Sau Wong (&#35611;&#25163;&#29579, King of Talking Hands.when you look at all the old masters yip man etc , WSL stands out.they say he was a kind unassuming man,and his wingchun was not just legend but fact.a great fighter.


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## skinters

have you seen the science of in fighting,and look beyond the pointing finger ?.....both WSL


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## AceHBK

skinters said:


> have you seen the science of in fighting,and look beyond the pointing finger ?.....both WSL


 
Are those books or DVD's?


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## skinters

the science of in fighting is dvd,look beyond the pointing finger is a book the author is  David Peterson,who has been training in the Chinese martial arts since 1973. He became a student of Sifu Wong Shun Leung after traveling to honk kong. he is noted as being one of the only students of WSL to preserve his teachings,and philosophies.


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## mook jong man

I have a very old videotape of Wong Shun Leung that was shot when he visited Australia to do a seminar at our Adelaide academy . The tape was a copy of a copy , so the picture quality is bad in some parts and unwatchable in others .

 But it is one of my treasured possessions along with a taped seminar of Sigung Tsui , I will have to try and get them converted to dvd or on the computer or something before they deteriorate any further .

 On the tape WSL demonstrates Chum Kiu and a couple of applications , The Bil Gee and the application of the Bil Gee footwork to chase somebody who keeps trying to sidestep you . He also demonstrates kicking and how important it is to maintain the angle in the leg as you raise your kick and not chamber the leg.


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## mook jong man

skinters said:


> the science of in fighting is dvd,look beyond the pointing finger is a book the author is David Peterson,who has been training in the Chinese martial arts since 1973. He became a student of Sifu Wong Shun Leung after traveling to honk kong. he is noted as being one of the only students of WSL to preserve his teachings,and philosophies.


 
It might interest you to know Skinters that I used to teach a guy when I was running a suburban branch in Sydney's outer suburbs , that lived next door to Barry Lee .

 Sifu Barry Lee is also one of WSL's head men in Australia , and is married to WSL's daughter I believe. He was nicknamed " The Machine " by WSL who said that if you are hit by this man , you don't get back up . 

Anyway I said to this student , what the hell are you doing learning off me for when you live next door to Barry Lee , I am a Neville Nobody compared to Barry Lee .

 But the guy didn't seem to understand the importance of who he was living next to , it was sort of pre internet days and all that so he kept on learning with me . But that was years ago and I think Sifu Lee has set up an organisation in Germany now .


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## Yoshiyahu

Did you ever train with the guy?




mook jong man said:


> It might interest you to know Skinters that I used to teach a guy when I was running a suburban branch in Sydney's outer suburbs , that lived next door to Barry Lee .
> 
> Sifu Barry Lee is also one of WSL's head men in Australia , and is married to WSL's daughter I believe. He was nicknamed " The Machine " by WSL who said that if you are hit by this man , you don't get back up .
> 
> Anyway I said to this student , what the hell are you doing learning off me for when you live next door to Barry Lee , I am a Neville Nobody compared to Barry Lee .
> 
> But the guy didn't seem to understand the importance of who he was living next to , it was sort of pre internet days and all that so he kept on learning with me . But that was years ago and I think Sifu Lee has set up an organisation in Germany now .


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## mook jong man

Yoshiyahu said:


> Did you ever train with the guy?


 
No unfortunately , but I sure would have liked to . It would of had to be in secret because I don't think my Sifu would have been too thrilled about one of his instructors going and learning off another Sifu .

http://www.vingtsun.net.au/

Here is a link to his site .


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## Yoshiyahu

Interesting site...but one of the sites is all in german.



mook jong man said:


> No unfortunately , but I sure would have liked to . It would of had to be in secret because I don't think my Sifu would have been too thrilled about one of his instructors going and learning off another Sifu .
> 
> http://www.vingtsun.net.au/
> 
> Here is a link to his site .


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## mook jong man

On the page that I've linked to up the top where it says contents it will take you to a couple of articles that he's written .


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## skinters

mook jong man said:


> It might interest you to know Skinters that I used to teach a guy when I was running a suburban branch in Sydney's outer suburbs , that lived next door to Barry Lee .
> 
> Sifu Barry Lee is also one of WSL's head men in Australia , and is married to WSL's daughter I believe. He was nicknamed " The Machine " by WSL who said that if you are hit by this man , you don't get back up .
> 
> Anyway I said to this student , what the hell are you doing learning off me for when you live next door to Barry Lee , I am a Neville Nobody compared to Barry Lee .
> 
> But the guy didn't seem to understand the importance of who he was living next to , it was sort of pre internet days and all that so he kept on learning with me . But that was years ago and I think Sifu Lee has set up an organisation in Germany now .




found this of david peterson,just out of interest.        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXhHyjYsua0&feature=related 


had a look at barry lee,found is site,quite interesting,but could only digout this old clip of him with WSL,  if you are hit by this man, you don't get back up haha you wont get a better endorsment .


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## Yoshiyahu

So do you guys think Michael Wong Wing Chun is any good. Could someone learning from him become a good WC fighter? Or would they lack many basics to fight with?


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## skinters

Yoshiyahu said:


> So do you guys think Michael Wong Wing Chun is any good. Could someone learning from him become a good WC fighter? Or would they lack many basics to fight with?



there are things lacking from a lot of wingchun fighters,even bruce lee had his short comings .

take what you need from it,i watched his dvd a friend loaned me ,and thought in parts it was quite good .if your looking for traditional wingchun with a lineage you can trace back look elsewhere .


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## Yoshiyahu

Yea. I like some of street applications. But I know if he has the basics to offer like

Root
Proper structure
Body Alignment
Flow and Sensitivity.

I don't if his WC teaches these things are not...Please share with me if it does?




skinters said:


> there are things lacking from a lot of wingchun fighters,even bruce lee had his short comings .
> 
> take what you need from it,i watched his dvd a friend loaned me ,and thought in parts it was quite good .if your looking for traditional wingchun with a lineage you can trace back look elsewhere .


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## skinters

Yoshiyahu said:


> Yea. I like some of street applications. But I know if he has the basics to offer like
> 
> Root
> Proper structure
> Body Alignment
> Flow and Sensitivity.
> 
> I don't if his WC teaches these things are not...Please share with me if it does?



well im sure he has all of them to a higher or lesser degree,when he does the drills with a partner he certaintly dont look unbalanced.

i got to say something i feel sorry for his training partner in some of the drills,although he's wareing body and shin pads he dont hold back.


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## Yoshiyahu

Yea. Does anyone know if Michael Wong uses the

Root
Proper structure
Body Alignment
Flow and Sensitivity



skinters said:


> well im sure he has all of them to a higher or lesser degree,when he does the drills with a partner he certaintly dont look unbalanced.
> 
> i got to say something i feel sorry for his training partner in some of the drills,although he's wareing body and shin pads he dont hold back.


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## skinters

Yoshiyahu said:


> Yea. Does anyone know if Michael Wong uses the
> 
> Root
> Proper structure
> Body Alignment
> Flow and Sensitivity



yosh ????

only he knows that,why dont you ring him up and ask him .


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## geezer

mook jong man said:


> I have a very old videotape of Wong Shun Leung...
> 
> He... demonstrates kicking and how important it is to maintain *the angle in the leg* as you raise your kick and not chamber the leg.



_Mook_, could you elaborate a bit on this "angle"? Are you referring to keeping the shin angled forward as you lift and thrust the kick (kind of like a mirror image of the angle of the elbow and forearm in a centerline tan-sau)?


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## mook jong man

geezer said:


> _Mook_, could you elaborate a bit on this "angle"? Are you referring to keeping the shin angled forward as you lift and thrust the kick (kind of like a mirror image of the angle of the elbow and forearm in a centerline tan-sau)?


 
Yes , thats what I mean . 
The leg stays in the same angle from your stance till when it gets to the target and then it thrusts through , just like the arms. He draws a diagram on a black board showing how the movement is direct and done in one movement rather than other arts who cock the knee up and then thrust it out . 

This method is not direct to the target , is telegraphic because it is a one -two movement . He then kicks a wall bag and shows that with the Wing Chun kicking method the force of the opposite reaction travels back down into the ground , where as with the cock your knee up in a chamber and then thrust it out method the force pushes your body back .


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## Yoshiyahu

Okay buddy I called him...he had no reply.





skinters said:


> yosh ????
> 
> only he knows that,why dont you ring him up and ask him .


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## FlowingFist

skinters said:


> he has quite a succesfull dvd franchise,nothing wong (sorry wrong) with that and i got a dvd of his gathering dust somewhere.
> 
> he comes through with quite powerfull direct attacks,and uses a lot of the wingchun techniques quite well on times.
> 
> saying that,he seems to have jumped on the wingchun dvd bandwagon,he obviously knows a bit about wingchun,but would hazzard a guess he is mostly self taught.



He is getting admired by people who are not fighters (for being more aggressive than they are) and he is no master in my opinion.   One of the main principles of Wing Chun is to use 'non committed movements'   and he shows no skill in this at all.  He has being teaching people to elbow peoples arms in many of his YouTube videos even though that is a committed movement and if he were to use this on a skilled wing chun person -they would simply soften their arms and slam his elbow into his face to take his shoulder socket out.  He has not picked up on the inner side of martial arts and I would not waste my time training with him.  Using all that speed and aggression shows that he in incompetent.


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## geezer

_Flowing Fist_, welcome to the WC/WT/VT forum. As you are brand new here, I'd like to point out that, in the interest of civil and productive discussion, we don't engage in "fraud-busting", "style-bashing" and other trollish behavior here. You are more than welcome to disagree with "Master" Wong's approach, but please do so civilly and avoid terms like "incompetent". This will help promote a productive dialogue.

BTW, I personally share some of your sentiments on Mr. Wong's interpretation of WC, but let's be ._...artful _in how we express our feelings!


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## Jake104

WOW! Random back from the dead thread?
Master Wong makes me laugh and entertains me. So I like him. I also like Amera-Do-Teh Master Ken. Maybe both guys can beat me up? IDK? But they are funny as hell and very entertaining. I'm easily amused.


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## FlowingFist

Hi Geezer, Sorry didnt want to be a troll sorry.   I personally took up Wing Chun to stop me from fighting and neautralize the attacker rather than attack the person and Martial arts are great if you do them for the correct reason.
Wing Chun is more a mental than physical art and you absorb it better if you train slowly.    There should not be any Ego, Hatred or Fear when training.   Just train pleasantly and it becomes SPONTANEOUS.
When I fist started my teacher said 'YOU HAVE TO BE SLOW TO BE FAST'  and I was baffled. Now though it makes total sense.   We did not concentrate on any nasty applications as I just picked them up naturally (being a natural fighter) and it was really relaxing.   I have managed to  keep completely calm over the years  when confronted by idiots and nothing happens as they see how relaxed you are.
Also - If you rely on using twice your opponents speed to defend yourself what are you going to do when you get old or meet somebody else fast.       The average person on the street is not trained to be slow and calm in a fight and even big people loose their balance when they attack a well trained Wing Chun Person because they can not flow like the Wing Chun and they are quite baffled by it.
If you can control somebody then you can hit any time you like, though you can also neutralize and avoid any trouble.      To be good at Wing Chun do not concentrate on hitting, just flow.
Secondly        Do not concentrate on Wing Chun against Wing Chun as you will not develop a FREE FLOW.
You will need a good training partner or teacher who does not insist on everything being exactly right.  There is no exact way to flow with an attacker in real combat as there is not exact way to attack.
Look at this man 



There is no EGO or speed, just flowing and they are not concentrating too much on Wing Chun against Wing Chun
          Some people would criticize and say they are too open, though you need to practise Chi Sau (STICKY HANDS) in different situations so that you are trained to react in those situations.


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## Argus

FlowingFist said:


> Hi Geezer, Sorry didnt want to be a troll sorry.   I personally took up Wing Chun to stop me from fighting and *neautralize the attacker rather than attack the person* and Martial arts are great if you do them for the correct reason.
> Wing Chun is more a mental than physical art and you absorb it better if you train slowly.    There should not be any Ego, Hatred or Fear when training.   Just train pleasantly and it becomes SPONTANEOUS.
> When I fist started my teacher said 'YOU HAVE TO BE SLOW TO BE FAST'  and I was baffled. Now though it makes total sense.   We did not concentrate on any nasty applications as I just picked them up naturally (being a natural fighter) and it was really relaxing.   I have managed to  keep completely calm over the years  when confronted by idiots and nothing happens as they see how relaxed you are.
> Also - If you rely on using twice your opponents speed to defend yourself what are you going to do when you get old or meet somebody else fast.       The average person on the street is not trained to be slow and calm in a fight and even big people loose their balance when they attack a well trained Wing Chun Person because they can not flow like the Wing Chun and they are quite baffled by it.
> If you can control somebody then you can hit any time you like, though you can also neutralize and avoid any trouble.      *To be good at Wing Chun do not concentrate on hitting, just flow.*
> Secondly        Do not concentrate on Wing Chun against Wing Chun as you will not develop a FREE FLOW.
> You will need a good training partner or teacher who does not insist on everything being exactly right.  There is no exact way to flow with an attacker in real combat as there is not exact way to attack.
> ...
> There is no EGO or speed, just flowing and they are not concentrating too much on Wing Chun against Wing Chun
> Some people would criticize and say they are too open, though you need to practise Chi Sau (STICKY HANDS) in different situations so that you are trained to react in those situations.



Good post, but I question the bits that I highlighted in bold.

In the first part of the video you posted, there's a curious lack of "following in" -- _hui sung / lat sao jik chung_, which is so essential to applying Wing Chun. The first individual just drops his hands and pauses before entering. I can't say much for the rest of the video, and don't want to criticize the school in any way, though. However failing to utilize forward energy and enter as soon as the line is clear is not merely counter productive, it's dangerous.

I believe that, if we are to apply Wing Chun safely and stick to the principles, we're obligated to attack whenever the way is clear. Otherwise you're just playing handsies, and will allow your opponent to take you out of position and/or set you up.

Of course, an attack doesn't just need to be a strike. You can still attack the centerline by pushing, pulling, pinning and such, if you chose. But you need to be on the centerline, and affecting his structure through that line, as opposed to chasing his hands around in some manner.

In my observation, the application of this concept of "forward energy" (directed towards the opponent's center at all times) and focus on attacking that center is the single biggest factor that separates good, applicable Wing Chun, from Wing Chun that doesn't work so well.


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## Jake104

FlowingFist said:


> Hi Geezer, Sorry didnt want to be a troll sorry.   I personally took up Wing Chun to stop me from fighting and neautralize the attacker rather than attack the person and Martial arts are great if you do them for the correct reason.
> Wing Chun is more a mental than physical art and you absorb it better if you train slowly.    There should not be any Ego, Hatred or Fear when training.   Just train pleasantly and it becomes SPONTANEOUS.
> When I fist started my teacher said 'YOU HAVE TO BE SLOW TO BE FAST'  and I was baffled. Now though it makes total sense.   We did not concentrate on any nasty applications as I just picked them up naturally (being a natural fighter) and it was really relaxing.   I have managed to  keep completely calm over the years  when confronted by idiots and nothing happens as they see how relaxed you are.
> Also - If you rely on using twice your opponents speed to defend yourself what are you going to do when you get old or meet somebody else fast.       The average person on the street is not trained to be slow and calm in a fight and even big people loose their balance when they attack a well trained Wing Chun Person because they can not flow like the Wing Chun and they are quite baffled by it.
> If you can control somebody then you can hit any time you like, though you can also neutralize and avoid any trouble.      To be good at Wing Chun do not concentrate on hitting, just flow.
> Secondly        Do not concentrate on Wing Chun against Wing Chun as you will not develop a FREE FLOW.
> You will need a good training partner or teacher who does not insist on everything being exactly right.  There is no exact way to flow with an attacker in real combat as there is not exact way to attack.
> Look at this man
> 
> 
> 
> There is no EGO or speed, just flowing and they are not concentrating too much on Wing Chun against Wing Chun
> Some people would criticize and say they are too open, though you need to practise Chi Sau (STICKY HANDS) in different situations so that you are trained to react in those situations.


Welcome to the forum. I think we'll get a long well.. I think of WC in much the same way. I too do STICKY hands and do not rely on speed. I don't bad mouth lineages either.


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## Danny T

FlowingFist said:


> Hi Geezer, Sorry didnt want to be a troll sorry.   I personally took up Wing Chun to stop me from fighting and neautralize the attacker rather than attack the person and Martial arts are great if you do them for the correct reason.
> Wing Chun is more a mental than physical art and you absorb it better if you train slowly.    There should not be any Ego, Hatred or Fear when training.   Just train pleasantly and it becomes SPONTANEOUS.
> When I fist started my teacher said 'YOU HAVE TO BE SLOW TO BE FAST'  and I was baffled. Now though it makes total sense.   We did not concentrate on any nasty applications as I just picked them up naturally (being a natural fighter) and it was really relaxing.   I have managed to  keep completely calm over the years  when confronted by idiots and nothing happens as they see how relaxed you are.
> Also - If you rely on using twice your opponents speed to defend yourself what are you going to do when you get old or meet somebody else fast.       The average person on the street is not trained to be slow and calm in a fight and even big people loose their balance when they attack a well trained Wing Chun Person because they can not flow like the Wing Chun and they are quite baffled by it.
> If you can control somebody then you can hit any time you like, though you can also neutralize and avoid any trouble.      To be good at Wing Chun do not concentrate on hitting, just flow.
> Secondly        Do not concentrate on Wing Chun against Wing Chun as you will not develop a FREE FLOW.
> You will need a good training partner or teacher who does not insist on everything being exactly right.  There is no exact way to flow with an attacker in real combat as there is not exact way to attack.
> Look at this man
> 
> 
> 
> There is no EGO or speed, just flowing and they are not concentrating too much on Wing Chun against Wing Chun
> Some people would criticize and say they are too open, though you need to practise Chi Sau (STICKY HANDS) in different situations so that you are trained to react in those situations.


I agree with much of this.
To be have good wc one should start slowly learn proper structure, presentation, and positions. Then learn to move the body while maintaining proper presentations and structure. While doing so one should be learning some example applications to understand how the principles are applied. Then there are drills to develop flow. These drills are not don't fast or full force. Within them one learns to feel the movements, feel the positions, feel the pressure and vectors. This is not about fighting or winning it is about flowing and correcting within the flow. In time one will begin to feel the openings and when an attack can be launched and/if need be abandoned yet maintaining forward pressure, control, position and structure.


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## FlowingFist

Danny T said:


> flowing and correcting within the flow.



Thank You Danny,
You put  it in better words than me.      Practising *correcting within the flow* is obviously important because things won't go just how you want in real combat & you need to learn how to cope with that.


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## Danny T

FlowingFist said:


> Thank You Danny,
> You put  it in better words than me.      Practising *correcting within the flow* is obviously important because things won't go just how you want in real combat & you need to learn how to cope with that.


Yeap.
One of favorite expressions: "You must deal with what Is, not with what Should be".

One of the major facets of wc is learning not particular applications but movement and what is available within the movement.


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