# WingChun IS BS!



## StormShadow (Sep 5, 2013)

I have to wonder if this will spread to others in the public wishing to learn the art but being told not to when seeking information.


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## Flying Crane (Sep 5, 2013)

sorry I can't view the video from my office, youtube is blocked.  But if this is someone ranting about how bad wing chun is, then my answer to your ponderings is: no.  

The internet is full of people spouting off their (often uneducated) opinions.  These people are generally ignored by most people in the world.  I think the general public is pretty good at recognizing someone who has an axe to grind, and taking their rantings with a big dose of salt.  Or just rejecting them altogether.


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## Steve (Sep 5, 2013)

NSFW.  Couldn't get further than a few seconds in before the language turned me off completely.


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## ballen0351 (Sep 5, 2013)

I'm not sure what the point of that was.  Who is this guy and why do you care what he thinks about anything.  He can't complete a full sentence with out the F bomb.  I watched the whole thing thinking he would get to the point.  
Spoiler alert:   he had no point


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## J W (Sep 5, 2013)

It was posted by "Freddies modern kungfu", so I'm guessing his point was that his "modern" kung fu is better than traditional kung fu styles. 

This will only influence people who are simple minded enough to rely on bad YouTube videos for solid information.


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## Argus (Sep 5, 2013)

Geez. Excuse my language, but I've never heard someone so _********** ignorant as s***_.

I was actually hoping for some substance.


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## yak sao (Sep 5, 2013)

Steve said:


> NSFW.  Couldn't get further than a few seconds in before the language turned me off completely.




Ditto. Was he sitting on his toilet videoing this?
That might explain the potty mouth.


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## Takai (Sep 5, 2013)

Steve said:


> NSFW.  Couldn't get further than a few seconds in before the language turned me off completely.



I agree completely. 

1) If you want to make a valid argument (especially on youtube) the ability to form a coherent sentence is a must. Sorry buddy, a string of four letter words doesn't qualify.

2) Not seeing a lot of credentials here. So in other words...you know not of what you speak. 

3) All martial arts are BS. Except for Ameri-do-te. Hasn't anyone been listening to Master Ken?


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## K-man (Sep 5, 2013)

It certainly was an uneducated comment. To compare any amateur martial artist of any style with the likes of Ali or Tyson is always going to go the way of the World Champion. It does not mean any particular MA is crap. I think the guy has never seen good martial art and he has obviously never trained it or he would not have demonstrated his ignorance to such perfection. :asian:


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## blindsage (Sep 6, 2013)

I saw this video a couple of weeks ago and looked into him a bit.  It appears that he worships fitness above all else as a sign of skill.  I also saw a few references to Choy Lay Fut which may also influence some of his bias.


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## Kwan Sau (Sep 6, 2013)

Anyone in the public who would even listen to a clown like this guy doesnt deserve to learn Wing Chun...





StormShadow said:


> I have to wonder if this will spread to others in the public wishing to learn the art but being told not to when seeking information.


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## Eric_H (Sep 6, 2013)

blindsage said:


> It appears that he worships fitness above all else as a sign of skill.



Fitness ain't the end all be all, that said, I've seen fit people with little (< 6mo) boxing training demolish a large percentage of 1-3 year WC guys.


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## StormShadow (Sep 6, 2013)

Eric_H said:


> Fitness ain't the end all be all, that said, I've seen fit people with little (< 6mo) boxing training demolish a large percentage of 1-3 year WC guys.



IMHO, and some may take offense to this, but this is my take on it, many wing chun practitioners are too concerned with chi-sao.  We all know it's supposed to develop contact reflexes and build sensitivity but it in itself does not teach you to fight in combat situations.  The only training that will is if you spar/fight others.  You have to be able to use the principles of wing chun and APPLY them to adapting situations.  Wing chun is not a magic formula.  You have to work hard to be good and apply this art in a true manner.  Someone being excellent in chi-sao does not equate to their fighting ability.  Fights don't usually start from point of contact. 

That being said, we have two factions: those who want to fight and be fighters and those who study wing chun for self defense.  For those studying for self defense, you will have people of all walks of life studying it, short and tall, big and small. It's very possible they would not be in fighting shape. Though, with further practice in wing chun those people can become fit.  

Then we have those who are fighters and want to add wing chun to their arsenal  i.e. mma fighters.  You have to spend a great deal of time and practice to apply these principles in almost an effortless manner where everything just simply flows in the natural.  It's not likely studying it for a couple years will get you to that point and those people will label the art.  This is just my observations, right or wrong.


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## J W (Sep 6, 2013)

Eric_H said:


> Fitness ain't the end all be all, that said, I've seen fit people with little (< 6mo) boxing training demolish a large percentage of 1-3 year WC guys.



I don't doubt it, WC skill certainly seems to take longer to develop than boxing skill. I did about 6 months of boxing several years ago, and compared to my current 2 years of WC, I feel like I progressed much faster with boxing. Not that I was a good boxer after only 6 months, but a better boxer after 6 months than I was a WC guy after 6 months. 

This could be part of the reason for the WC is BS attitude that so many people on You Tube seem to have (like this nut). They see video of an inexperienced WC guy getting pummeled by a similarly inexperienced boxer/muay thai fighter/whatever and conclude that WC must suck. Nevermind that the WC guy they are watching isn't any good at WC.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Sep 6, 2013)

J W said:


> WC skill certainly seems to take longer to develop than boxing skill.



This is the general TCMA problem. When a boxer develops and tests his skill in the ring, or a wrestler develops and tests his skill on the mat, a TCMA guy would use that time to train his forms and punch into the thin air. A TCMA guy may say, "TCMA is more than just combat, it also includes health, performance, self-cultivation, inner peace, ...". If you don't treat combat as your highest priority, you just won't get the result that you are looking for.


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## Kwan Sau (Sep 6, 2013)

Eric_H said:


> Fitness ain't the end all be all, that said, I've seen fit people with little (< 6mo) boxing training demolish a large percentage of 1-3 year WC guys.



Hahaha! True! But this ****-clown seems to repeat several times how holding a side kick position is the sign of awesome-ness! bwahahaha I think this kid needs to hydrate


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## Kwan Sau (Sep 6, 2013)

A very valid point. It is simply amazing how many WC families and kwoons out there place such a high regard to chi sau. They think this is the ultimate pinnacle of WC skills. What a joke. It's simply another stepping stone...that's it. Notice how the "grandmasters and masters" out there in WC-land do a lot of grabbing of their partners wrists and forearms!?!?!? WTF!?!?!?!? No wonder why people in and out of WC think it's a joke. 



StormShadow said:


> IMHO, and some may take offense to this, but this is my take on it, many wing chun practitioners are too concerned with chi-sao.  We all know it's supposed to develop contact reflexes and build sensitivity but it in itself does not teach you to fight in combat situations.


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## Kwan Sau (Sep 6, 2013)

Amen brother!!!!! Well said!!!!!



Kung Fu Wang said:


> If you don't treat combat as your highest priority, you just won't get the result that you are looking for.


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## yak sao (Sep 6, 2013)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> This is the general TCMA problem. When a boxer develops and tests his skill in the ring, or a wrestler develops and tests his skill on the mat, a TCMA guy would use that time to train his forms and punch into the thin air. A TCMA guy may say, "TCMA is more than just combat, it also includes health, performance, self-cultivation, inner peace, ...". *If you don't treat combat as your highest priority, you just won't get the result that you are looking for*.



Totally agree. I know there are as many reasons to study a MA as there are people who are training, and we can't all fit into some nice little cookie cutter form. But if we don't put being able to handle ourselves as priority one, then everything else is self delusional.
I had some teenage kid come to my class some time ago. If this were the 60's he would have been a flower child. I had him working on something like defending a straight punch with a pak dar.
A few minutes later I went over and he was doing all these elaborate blocking maneuvers, bobbing and weaving, everything but what I had him working on.
I asked him what he was doing, and he told me that he was a pacifist, and that he wanted to be able to defend himself without hurting someone.
I told him he wasn't a pacifist, he simply didn't know how to fight. A true pacifist is someone who knows how to fight, but chooses not to. 

And I see this make believe, "let's play karate" crap permeating all through the MA.
Everything from "spiritual enlightenment" to "pacifism" to "self development, etc.
Those things are all well and good, there's nothing wrong with any of that. But most of the people espousing these views haven't spent the hours, the years, the buckets of sweat to legitimately get to that point.
They put on a gi and tie a belt around their waist and suddenly they're a Buddhist.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Sep 6, 2013)

Someone asked me, "What's the best style for health and spiritual development?" I told him that all MA styles are good for health and spiritual development. 

After you have developed your "combat" ability, you will get "health" by default. You will also have better chance to survive if physical conflict ever happen in your life time. You will have chance to live longer (if that's what "health" means).

Also after you have developed your "combat" ability, you will have self-confidence, calmness, and inner peace. It will be much easier for you to back up from a fight without feeling ashame. You will then have better chance to go to heaven after death (if that's what "spiritual development" means).


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## RTKDCMB (Sep 9, 2013)

Apparently standing in a Wing Chun pose is BS but doing a handstand or the front splits makes you 'special'.


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## wingchun100 (Dec 12, 2013)

Flying Crane said:


> sorry I can't view the video from my office, youtube is blocked.  But if this is someone ranting about how bad wing chun is, then my answer to your ponderings is: no.
> 
> The internet is full of people spouting off their (often uneducated) opinions.  These people are generally ignored by most people in the world.  I think the general public is pretty good at recognizing someone who has an axe to grind, and taking their rantings with a big dose of salt.  Or just rejecting them altogether.



All good points. Still, it does make me wonder: why are there more videos/blogs/etc. of people saying wing chun is BS over any other style? Even that clown Joe Rogan has an interview on YouTube where he and the interviewer both slam the style together. I haven't heard any other art get as much hate as wing chun, and for the life of me I can't understand why.


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## Dirty Dog (Dec 12, 2013)

wingchun100 said:


> All good points. Still, it does make me wonder: why are there more videos/blogs/etc. of people saying wing chun is BS over any other style? Even that clown Joe Rogan has an interview on YouTube where he and the interviewer both slam the style together. I haven't heard any other art get as much hate as wing chun, and for the life of me I can't understand why.



That's just your perception. Pick an art. Any art. Now go search and you'll find terabytes of nonsense posted about it.


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## Sukerkin (Dec 12, 2013)

What would Master Ken say?

Well ... how about Krav Maga, for example?






Or maybe Ninjutsu?


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## mograph (Dec 12, 2013)

"Wing Chun is BS?" Them's fightin' words!


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## blindsage (Dec 13, 2013)

WC is extremely popular.  Aside from Taijiquan (mostly the form, for health) WC is the most popular style of CMA in the world, and I've heard it said that it is the most popular form of MA in the world (again, aside from Taijiquan, and well behind TKD in the U.S.)  I'd be surprised if you _didn't _see a lot of criticism out there.  It could also relate to how frequently WC folks talk about how much more 'scientific' and 'efficient' it is implying that makes it 'better' than everything else out there.  I'm not saying anyone in particular here, but it's not uncommon.


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## J W (Dec 13, 2013)

wingchun100 said:


> All good points. Still, it does make me wonder: why are there more videos/blogs/etc. of people saying wing chun is BS over any other style? Even that clown Joe Rogan has an interview on YouTube where he and the interviewer both slam the style together. I haven't heard any other art get as much hate as wing chun, and for the life of me I can't understand why.



I've heard plenty of people knocking TKD, Karate, Kenpo... I don't know that WC gets it much more than other arts. 

Some people like to talk like they're an expert, even if they don't really know what they're talking about (face it, we all yell at the coach's bad play calls as we watch football on TV, even though we don't really know a damn thing about play calling in an NFL game). WC is a popular martial art. Wannabe experts need to have an opinion about it, so they will check out some bad WC YouTube videos, assume that the whole thing is crap based on that (because a few videos is enough evidence, right?) and then go talk trash because trust me, I'm an expert.


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## jimbo123 (Dec 21, 2013)

A few months ago I was watching this guys videos because he had a good stretching routine. He was quite well spoken, polite etc. Seeing this video is quite shocking.


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## Coker101 (Dec 26, 2013)

He also has a video about how the two people that inspired him to be the great man he is were Bruce and 2Pac....and the name of the video is 2Pac is a martial artist.  He may or may not be talented but regardless listening to him is just painful because he acts so childish. 

Also what's the point of bashing other peoples art?  It's like he's just this angry guy wanting to prove something.  And last I remember Bruce never said that Wing Chun was BS/useless/whatever.  If I remember correctly he just felt like it had some holes in it.  Plus he didn't train in it all that long I don't think.

Oh well...whatever.  To each his own I guess.


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## Vajramusti (Dec 27, 2013)

StormShadow said:


> IMHO, and some may take offense to this, but this is my take on it, many wing chun practitioners are too concerned with chi-sao.  We all know it's supposed to develop contact reflexes and build sensitivity but it in itself does not teach you to fight in combat situations.  The only training that will is if you spar/fight others.  You have to be able to use the principles of wing chun and APPLY them to adapting situations.  Wing chun is not a magic formula.  You have to work hard to be good and apply this art in a true manner.  Someone being excellent in chi-sao does not equate to their fighting ability.  Fights don't usually start from point of contact.
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> No offense taken with your opinion. Generalizing about all wing chun.But I disagree with your opinion as you state it..
> ...


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## Danny T (Dec 30, 2013)

Wing IS BS! I can agree to this however, I use BS for 'Best System'.

I have training and I instruct/coach in numerous systems. Depending upon how those systems are presented for training they are excellent systems or they are very poor.
I have & still train & instruct traditional Muay Thai, I also train and instruct Wing Chun. Several times a year I have our intermediate, advanced MT practitioners & fighters spar with our Wing Chun practitioners. With this we sometimes hold the sessions as a Muay Thai sparring session and other times it is more along the lines of a sudden attack and the WCers have to defend themselves. Depending upon the level of experience some times the WCer dominates, sometimes the MTer dominates, more often than not it is rather close as to abilities and skill sets. When held in a basic sport sparring aspect only; the MT guys usually are on top but when it comes to it being in a self-defense situation with or without weapons; the WCers almost always dominate. Why? Different training for different situations, completely different mindset toward the training and the situational conditioning we utilize for each. I don't care what other schools do, how they do it or why. I know what I teach and coach and why. Oh and yes we do Chi Sao, a lot. We also do a lot of trapping drills, pad work, wall bag work, heavy bag work, footwork, weapons, strengthening, conditioning, and tempering along with the 3 empty hand forms, 1 wooden dummy form, and 2 weapons forms. It is a process and works very well for our students. We have fun, don't take ourselves too serious but do take the training serious and work hard in the training.

Hoping the very best in the New Year for all.
Smile, give someone positive reinforcement, and keep your training real.


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