# Tall lanky southpaw counter and disruptive technique advice



## Muay Thai Hackney

Ok, so at about 6,2, i'm one of the taller members of my club. Been doing Muay Thai again for just under a year and have really been enjoying my develop. However, i'm still finding it hard to counter with certain things. 

Counters to punches seem really slow. It's like i've yet to develop the muscle memory needed for that. But what are some good counters for  a southpaw??? I know that my left mid kick is my main weapon. But since i'm tall, people try to rush me with a barrage of swinging punches and the like - what are the best counters?

I think i've got the hang of disruptive techniques more - my go to disruptive weapon is the teep (an overlooked technique that's becoming more and more useful as I spar) but what about others?

Any advice is appreciative, thanks lads.


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## drop bear

Your  left foot needs to be on the outside of their right foot. Use your cross more. And initiate more.

The obliqe kick to the leg is pretty nice for a tall guy as well.

Think about this.
You have range you are going to hit first why are you countering?

Have a look at nick trask in the blue gloves. He has the reach so he bushes the pace. What he doesn't do is get sucked into the pocket.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=upifi6nIoXQ


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## Muay Thai Hackney

drop bear said:


> Your  left foot needs to be on the outside of their right foot. Use your cross more. And initiate more.
> 
> The obliqe kick to the leg is pretty nice for a tall guy as well.
> 
> Think about this.
> You have range you are going to hit first why are you countering?
> 
> Have a look at nick trask in the blue gloves. He has the reach so he bushes the pace. What he doesn't do is get sucked into the pocket.
> http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=upifi6nIoXQ



Hi Drop bear bear...

Um, I should clarify that it is ME who's the tall lanky southpaw 

I guess i'm countering because my coach emphasis counter fighting in our technical sessions. I have thought about it after your post though..maybe I shouldn't worry about countering if i'm the one with the reach. BUT...I do need to concentrate on disrupting my opponent before he attacks. So what are some good disruption techniques?


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## Touch Of Death

Muay Thai Hackney said:


> Hi Drop bear bear...
> 
> Um, I should clarify that it is ME who's the tall lanky southpaw
> 
> I guess i'm countering because my coach emphasis counter fighting in our technical sessions. I have thought about it after your post though..maybe I shouldn't worry about countering if i'm the one with the reach. BUT...I do need to concentrate on disrupting my opponent before he attacks. So what are some good disruption techniques?


I am a south paw, right hand people are always open for that sweep with the lead leg.


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## Touch Of Death

Think of your self on a clock and work on moving your back foot, not around, but directly from 6:00 to 3:00 whilst executing a back knuckle.


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## drop bear

Lol. Fine OK so you have just let him walk through your range into his and then punch first.

Off the jab parry with your right slip left cross. Right hook left straight.

For the right round kick the left cross will work as a counter as well.


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## donnaTKD

parry their jab, left cross , right body uppercut, low kick to their front knee -- oughta give em summat to think about 

coming at you swinging --- jab, uppercut to the body, uppercut to chin, low kick to knee, mid kick or knee to abs.

don't get sucked in with your reach you can afford to play it on the outside picking your shots and executing them better cos you'll have the time to choose what's coming next -- also you can dictate what's going to happen and when


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## Muay Thai Hackney

donnaTKD said:


> parry their jab, left cross , right body uppercut, low kick to their front knee -- oughta give em summat to think about
> 
> coming at you swinging --- jab, uppercut to the body, uppercut to chin, low kick to knee, mid kick or knee to abs.
> 
> don't get sucked in with your reach you can afford to play it on the outside picking your shots and executing them better cos you'll have the time to choose what's coming next -- also you can dictate what's going to happen and when




That's sound advice, donnaTKD. Your right, in theory, i'm the one who can dictate what's going to happen. Unless of course you get those bazerka short sods who just want to get inside and haymaker you to death. I think i've found a solution to that problem though - my (Yodsaenklai Fairtex style)  left kick to their right arm  



> Lol. Fine OK so you have just let him walk through your range into his and then punch first.
> 
> Off the jab parry with your right slip left cross. Right hook left straight.
> 
> For the right round kick the left cross will work as a counter as well.



bear bear! I'm not saying that I allow people to get into my range on purpose...I do often keep people at range, and I think that I am getting better at since I have no facial bruises to tell the story - however, I need to make sure I have a strong counter for somebody who does get in on me, and lets face it, you can't keep your opponents away forever, can you? As tall people, sooner or later, a short **** is going to find his range and attack.

I like the parry jab with the left cross. It's a beautiful move.


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## donnaTKD

being a lefty i parry with my left and shoot a right cross 

other point - short **** (like me) getting on the inside --- you've got knees with a decent reach haven't you ????? and hopefully you've been trained to deliver a decent front kick  again ought to give them something to think about 

to stop or parry body shots - try a high cross knee so they hit your leg not your body  

as the little sod launches at you -- you just lift and drive your knee across your body so your knee ends up covering your kidneys and abs it'll also give you a low side kick option so you can then drive your leg down onto his thigh/knee  causing him more pain --- it'll also score points as well


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## Muay Thai Hackney

> being a lefty i parry with my left and shoot a right cross
> 
> other point - short **** (like me) getting on the inside --- you've got knees with a decent reach haven't you ????? and hopefully you've been trained to deliver a decent front kick  again ought to give them something to think about
> 
> to stop or parry body shots - try a high cross knee so they hit your leg not your body
> 
> as the little sod launches at you -- you just lift and drive your knee across your body so your knee ends up covering your kidneys and abs it'll also give you a low side kick option so you can then drive your leg down onto his thigh/knee causing him more pain --- it'll also score points as well Lol. Fine OK so you have just let him walk through your range into his and then punch first.
> 
> Off the jab parry with your right slip left cross. Right hook left straight.
> 
> For the right round kick the left cross will work as a counter as well.


Left cross after he throws a right cross you mean? Yeah I can see myself parring with the left for the right cross, but it's difficult to parry the right with left.

Anyway, the knee advice you gave me sounds really solid. Yeah I have got reach on the knees due to having long legs.  I'll give those a try, though I have to work on setting up my knees more as I don't knee much in class even though my instructor would prefer I did because of my height and reach. So the next time a Wolverine wannabe wants to get in, i'll give those knees a try, thanks mate  

I've worked quite a bit with my southpaw teeps. They are becoming more and more of a useful weapon, as is the southpaw straight left to the body. Love that one. Everything from the left side seems very effective.

One problem I am having these days is my left kick is getting caught a lot more recently, even with newbies. It never used to be the case, but maybe I need to throw it harder and with more conviction. I do through it rather lazily out of fear of injuring a sparring partner...


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## donnaTKD

how long have you been training muay thai ?????

just curious cos between us we've given you an advanced crash course in this  

are you planning on fighting ????? if so ring or cage ?????


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## donnaTKD

other point is that you said the short **** comes at you swinging - there's his mistake and it's very easy to break his front leg cos he's concentrating on planting his fist on you.  you'd be covered up anyways so it's really easy to administer the low side kick straight onto his front leg   you just gotta love my coach that came up with this one 

don't worry about hurting people - ffs - you're training muay thai a total combat "sport" --- you gotta throw everything, kicks, punches, knees, elbows the lot as hard as you possibly can or else you're gunna get caught and stuffed or if you don't then you're gunna get injured bigtime 

just summat for you to consider


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## drop bear

Also if you are tall you don't always need to set up that knee so much as just throw the thing. I know guys who can lean back away from punches and still drive that knee home.

Pivot the supporting foot and you get a good long range knee. Parry their right cross with both hands throw that knee and they will fall into it.


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## Muay Thai Hackney

donnaTKD said:


> how long have you been training muay thai ?????
> 
> just curious cos between us we've given you an advanced crash course in this
> 
> are you planning on fighting ????? if so ring or cage ?????



I did a few lessons here and there when I was 23-24, but never went regularly.

I started Muay Thai full time, 3 days a week last October..so a little under a year. 

I didn't really plan on fighting, I just wanted good self defense really. However, I am thinking about doing an inter club fight later this year. 

Lol, I know you guys have given me some pretty high level advice, and I very much appreciate it. I'm a slow learner but I will implement these advice and see if they will be to my benefit.


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## Muay Thai Hackney

donnaTKD said:


> other point is that you said the short **** comes at you swinging - there's his mistake and it's very easy to break his front leg cos he's concentrating on planting his fist on you.  you'd be covered up anyways so it's really easy to administer the low side kick straight onto his front leg   you just gotta love my coach that came up with this one
> 
> don't worry about hurting people - ffs - you're training muay thai a total combat "sport" --- you gotta throw everything, kicks, punches, knees, elbows the lot as hard as you possibly can or else you're gunna get caught and stuffed or if you don't then you're gunna get injured bigtime
> 
> just summat for you to consider




You mean like an oblique kick just above the knee like Anderson Silva and all them people do??? Boy, I can see how that would be a nasty technique. I guess if somebody gets all super aggressive it would be OK to do something like that. 

Yeah, I guess you are right. I think i'm way too nice to people when I spar, even those who are aggressive. To my credit, I don't get hit in the face much, as I do use my reach a lot better than I used to. Not concentrating on covering up helped. Everytime people were like 'hands up!' but when I first started out and concentrated on having my hands up I got the **** beat out of me. Now my hands are low, I get hit a lot less. Having your hands up all the time is overrated imo..but that's for another thread


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## Muay Thai Hackney

drop bear said:


> Also if you are tall you don't always need to set up that knee so much as just throw the thing. I know guys who can lean back away from punches and still drive that knee home.
> 
> Pivot the supporting foot and you get a good long range knee. Parry their right cross with both hands throw that knee and they will fall into it.



Thanks drop bear, i'll try to implement that in sparring on friday. I really need to use those knees as I know they can be a big advantage. I guess i'll just have to be more random with it like you suggested.


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## donnaTKD

don't worry about it 

i've been training and fighting muay thai since mid nineties - not sure how long drop bear been doing it but i think it might be longer than me plus he cross trains mma   we're more than happy to help   use the suggestions we've thrown at you on friday and then on friday night / saturday morning tell us what happened  

when you're sparring on friday remember to focus - it doesn't matter what else is going on in the room the only thing that matters is you not getting hit cos of a distraction 

good luck with it on friday


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## donnaTKD

here's another one for you to try 

guy coming at you --- feint a jab, very hard knee to sternum (disrupts blood flow to heart and brain), very hard knee to nose / chin as he collapses, followed by a downward cross as he's falling down 

if you can do it fast enough you won't get penalised for the downward cross


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## Muay Thai Hackney

donnaTKD said:


> don't worry about it
> 
> i've been training and fighting muay thai since mid nineties - not sure how long drop bear been doing it but i think it might be longer than me plus he cross trains mma   we're more than happy to help   use the suggestions we've thrown at you on friday and then on friday night / saturday morning tell us what happened
> 
> when you're sparring on friday remember to focus - it doesn't matter what else is going on in the room the only thing that matters is you not getting hit cos of a distraction
> 
> good luck with it on friday



Whoa, that's almost 20 years, mate! You guys must be killers.

Yeah, i'll use them, make no apologies for using them too. I am sick of pussy footing around, especially considering that when I first started out I got the **** beat out of me at a previous gym. Was not happy about it and put me off Muay Thai for about a month. Came to this other gym and haven't looked back, specially using a lower hands stance.

What you said about focusing in the gym and not being concerned with anything else is EXACTLY what my coach says. I'm definitely taking that to heart. It's easier said than done but I will make an effort. 

I'll be sure to tell you guys how it goes on fridayC


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## donnaTKD

me a killer  prolly could if i needed to but there's a time and a place for everything 

i started training muay thai cos the training was more like circuit training which i absolutely adore   and it just continued - i did a pads class after the circuit class and just fell in love with the whole thing and now my own training is circuits and bags/pads, full contact (no protective gear) and for me cage fighting --- i prefer the cage to the ring even though it's more claustrophobic - it somehow feels safer cos no one else can get involved 

i also found that by cross training boxing i got a lot more skills which when combined with my muay thai skills gave me a bit more to paly with 

hoping that it all goes well for you


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## donnaTKD

if you don't concentrate on what the other guy is trying to do and counter it or offer up offence first then you'll get mullered - i found that by wearing ear plugs it helped me to focus a lot - i couldn't hear anything so i couldn't get distracted at all 

try the ear plugs   plus ear plugs cost a few pounds - your hearing is priceless


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## Muay Thai Hackney

donnaTKD said:


> if you don't concentrate on what the other guy is trying to do and counter it or offer up offence first then you'll get mullered - i found that by wearing ear plugs it helped me to focus a lot - i couldn't hear anything so i couldn't get distracted at all
> 
> try the ear plugs   plus ear plugs cost a few pounds - your hearing is priceless



Sorry for the long response, guys. I went away for my birthday for a bit, and the last sparring session didn't go as planned...

The distraction thing you mentioned happened...wasn't paying attention and then POW, guy got me with a good jab. I need ear plugs.

I think i've got smaller people than myself covered...don't wait for them, initiate and control distances. I STILL haven't tried out the techniques you guys have given me, but I plan to do so tomorrow as it's technical sparring tomorrow...i just hope my right calf is a bit more mobile by then.

Anyways, as a southpaw, you guys will know that my left kick is VERY essential to my entire game. I rely a LOT on it and it's more or less my best friend. However, i'm having issues with it lately...

I'm sparring guys who are closer in size and height to me now.. I admit, i'm probably not throwing it with as much force as I could, but I am ALWAYS getting it caught. Its really annoying as it takes out a fundamental part of my game. Not everybody catches it, but there was this explosive guy, exactly my height and a decent boxer (weak kicks of his own though) and he kept catching it every time time I threw it to the liver/ribs. He is orthodox and lately this kick has been caught by a majority of them..

It's really frustrating me. Should I just stick to low leg kicks against a kick catcher or is there a flaw in my technique?? Do I need to throw with speed and power more often for it not to get caught or what??? ):


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## drop bear

donnaTKD said:


> me a killer  prolly could if i needed to but there's a time and a place for everything
> 
> i started training muay thai cos the training was more like circuit training which i absolutely adore   and it just continued - i did a pads class after the circuit class and just fell in love with the whole thing and now my own training is circuits and bags/pads, full contact (no protective gear) and for me cage fighting --- i prefer the cage to the ring even though it's more claustrophobic - it somehow feels safer cos no one else can get involved
> 
> i also found that by cross training boxing i got a lot more skills which when combined with my muay thai skills gave me a bit more to paly with
> 
> hoping that it all goes well for you




It is safer. You can't fall out unless someone seriously messes up.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=d_Xhp1TTPKo


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## drop bear

Muay Thai Hackney said:


> Sorry for the long response, guys. I went away for my birthday for a bit, and the last sparring session didn't go as planned...
> 
> The distraction thing you mentioned happened...wasn't paying attention and then POW, guy got me with a good jab. I need ear plugs.
> 
> I think i've got smaller people than myself covered...don't wait for them, initiate and control distances. I STILL haven't tried out the techniques you guys have given me, but I plan to do so tomorrow as it's technical sparring tomorrow...i just hope my right calf is a bit more mobile by then.
> 
> Anyways, as a southpaw, you guys will know that my left kick is VERY essential to my entire game. I rely a LOT on it and it's more or less my best friend. However, i'm having issues with it lately...
> 
> I'm sparring guys who are closer in size and height to me now.. I admit, i'm probably not throwing it with as much force as I could, but I am ALWAYS getting it caught. Its really annoying as it takes out a fundamental part of my game. Not everybody catches it, but there was this explosive guy, exactly my height and a decent boxer (weak kicks of his own though) and he kept catching it every time time I threw it to the liver/ribs. He is orthodox and lately this kick has been caught by a majority of them..
> 
> It's really frustrating me. Should I just stick to low leg kicks against a kick catcher or is there a flaw in my technique?? Do I need to throw with speed and power more often for it not to get caught or what??? ):



Don't lead with that kick.

 kick as he throws the right hand is the best outcome.


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## Muay Thai Hackney

But what about when my kicks get caught?? I think I need to just start kicking more powerfully. I'm known as having a nasty left kick on the pad and bags, but I get my kicks caught sparring? What's wrong with my technique? This guy and a few others were far too good at catching my left kick. Faar too good. I don't like having to low kick because that's not where my strength lies...maybe I should try it Yodsanklai style and aim for the bicep area instead of the ribs???


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## Muay Thai Hackney

drop bear said:


> Don't lead with that kick.
> 
> kick as he throws the right hand is the best outcome.




Ok so basically time it? He does have a nasty right, and i felt that. It's funny, I have used the left kick to counter the right hand trick before, and it's always worked..I guess I just have to rely on my reflexes..that's good advice drop bear....thank you....it makes a lot of sense too since he'll be too busy retracting his right hand in order to catch the kick...only thing is, i'm  backwards fighter so have people including beginners close the distance on me and get me against the ropes, which makes it slightly more difficult to kick..guess that's where circling around comes into play.


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## drop bear

Muay Thai Hackney said:


> Ok so basically time it? He does have a nasty right, and i felt that. It's funny, I have used the left kick to counter the right hand trick before, and it's always worked..I guess I just have to rely on my reflexes..that's good advice drop bear....thank you....it makes a lot of sense too since he'll be too busy retracting his right hand in order to catch the kick...only thing is, i'm  backwards fighter so have people including beginners close the distance on me and get me against the ropes, which makes it slightly more difficult to kick..guess that's where circling around comes into play.




You should be going backwards.(well circling) to throw that counter off the right anyway.  You have to be off centre for that to work.


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## Muay Thai Hackney

drop bear said:


> You should be going backwards.(well circling) to throw that counter off the right anyway.  You have to be off centre for that to work.



By off centre you mean with my right leg outside his left leg then throwing the left power kick??? 

Also, do you think the fact that i'm (probably) throwing with only 50% power is a factor? Should I be meaner with my left kick?


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## drop bear

Muay Thai Hackney said:


> By off centre you mean with my right leg outside his left leg then throwing the left power kick???
> 
> Also, do you think the fact that i'm (probably) throwing with only 50% power is a factor? Should I be meaner with my left kick?



You would probably go inside for that one. To your right.it is a big movement you should be outside their left hand by then. Throw a right cross. Then switch.

I wouldn't throw any harder. You can catch a full power kick. And I would punch your face off for throwing it.


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## Muay Thai Hackney

drop bear said:


> You would probably go inside for that one. To your right.it is a big movement you should be outside their left hand by then. *Throw a right cross*. Then switch.
> 
> I wouldn't throw any harder. You can catch a full power kick. And I would punch your face off for throwing it.



Throw a right cross??????? You do mean a left cross, don't you?? 

Ok, yeah, I tend to step big when loading the left kick, so what you say makes sense, staying on the inside should be fine. I just need to time it more and be less predictable. I think i''m going to try the inside left kick too from time to time and the left teep to keep them guessing. 

It's funny, the advice you guys have given me helps in regards to smaller orthodox guys...but when faced against somebody as tall, as heavy and as explosive as me, it was difficult. Heh. I guess that's where skill takes over than natural advantages. I actually miss the aggressive little guys ):


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## drop bear

Muay Thai Hackney said:


> Throw a right cross??????? You do mean a left cross, don't you??
> 
> Ok, yeah, I tend to step big when loading the left kick, so what you say makes sense, staying on the inside should be fine. I just need to time it more and be less predictable. I think i''m going to try the inside left kick too from time to time and the left teep to keep them guessing.
> 
> It's funny, the advice you guys have given me helps in regards to smaller orthodox guys...but when faced against somebody as tall, as heavy and as explosive as me, it was difficult. Heh. I guess that's where skill takes over than natural advantages. I actually miss the aggressive little guys ):



No a right cross. OK. Your right leg is forwards  he throws either the cross or even the jab cross. You step to your right and lean to your right. Throw the kick with your left. When you put your foot down you should find that your left leg is now in front and you are off to the right of the guy. So the right cross is there. Not the left.

Right?


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## Muay Thai Hackney

drop bear said:


> No a right cross. OK. Your right leg is forwards  he throws either the cross or even the jab cross. You step to your right and lean to your right. Throw the kick with your left. When you put your foot down you should find that your left leg is now in front and you are off to the right of the guy. So the right cross is there. Not the left.
> 
> Right?



Ahhh, I see. That makes much more sense now.  So the idea is to change stances after the left kick. I get it. I'll try that tomorrow. Hopefully my calf feels better by tomorrow morning...it got kicked out a lot yesterday ): 

Thank you bear bear


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## donnaTKD

have you tried using a left knee instead of the left roundhouse  ?????

you say that your kick keeps getting caught prolly cos of the big step into it --- shorten your step into the kick then throw it twisting your hips more aggressively 

the big step into the kick is their cue to drop their hands to catch it --- don't make it so obvious and it won't get caught  

you step to your right which should give you a better platform but aim lower on your left kick - you can get as much if not more power into it by twisting your whole body into the kick   low leg kicks to the knees and backs of the knees work very well  (watch any muay thai fight) and by destroying their ability to stand up properly you find find that they're open up top as well so use your knees and elbows and punches to exploit the fact that their legs are hurting 

you might even get more power into a low leg kick cos you're not really lifting your leg to high and it's easier to throw


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## Muay Thai Hackney

donnaTKD said:


> have you tried using a left knee instead of the left roundhouse  ?????
> 
> you say that your kick keeps getting caught prolly cos of the big step into it --- shorten your step into the kick then throw it twisting your hips more aggressively
> 
> the big step into the kick is their cue to drop their hands to catch it --- don't make it so obvious and it won't get caught
> 
> you step to your right which should give you a better platform but aim lower on your left kick - you can get as much if not more power into it by twisting your whole body into the kick   low leg kicks to the knees and backs of the knees work very well  (watch any muay thai fight) and by destroying their ability to stand up properly you find find that they're open up top as well so use your knees and elbows and punches to exploit the fact that their legs are hurting
> 
> you might even get more power into a low leg kick cos you're not really lifting your leg to high and it's easier to throw




Ello Donna, mate. 

Not really tried using knees. I'm a backwards fighter and I guess I can see them working on an orthodox opponent walking in. I think I have to shadow box drill these in order for them to come naturally to me. 

I actually read your post before I left for technical sparring today, and I really took it on board. I basically pivoted out of my stance to throw the left kick, which forced me to turn my hip over more. It's a little awkward but it definitely seemed harder for people to anticipate, so thanks a lot for that, mate. 

Also took on bear bear's advice about counter cross and hooks with the left kick, which worked. But I switched it up a bit and threw a lot of lead leg kicks and inside left kicks to the inner thigh, I was pretty good today and a bit more aggressive. I thank you all for all the excellent advice. Next sparring session is friday


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## donnaTKD

glad that it worked for you   takes a while to get used to doing but by putting all your momentum through the whole of the kick it lands harder and more sweetly   you'll also find that your feet automatically extend creating the straight line between body, hip, knee and foot that makes the shot all the sweeter when it lands 

have you not tried being more offensive when you're sparring ?????

it'll put your opponent on their backfoot allowing you more time to do what you've got in mind   offence, defence, counter 

by getting in first you can use all your weapons   if you just back off then you're naturally inviting them to have a go, to have first shot at you --- that for me is pointless --- you get in there get stuck in and then defend if you have to otherwise you just don't stop unless you really have to 

something else to try - feint a jab, left uppercut into the body, knee to the face if you get the uppercut nailed  you've gotta be going forward to be able to capitalise on knees and elbows --- at fight school they teach you to go forward cos there's no merit in going backwards cos you're inviting your oppo to knock shades out of you


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## donnaTKD

roll on friday 

any more questions, queries etc..... just throw them at us   don't think that there's much that me and drop bear haven't faced 

let us know how friday goes


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## Muay Thai Hackney

donnaTKD said:


> glad that it worked for you   takes a while to get used to doing but by putting all your momentum through the whole of the kick it lands harder and more sweetly   you'll also find that your feet automatically extend creating the straight line between body, hip, knee and foot that makes the shot all the sweeter when it lands
> 
> have you not tried being more offensive when you're sparring ?????
> 
> it'll put your opponent on their backfoot allowing you more time to do what you've got in mind   offence, defence, counter
> 
> by getting in first you can use all your weapons   if you just back off then you're naturally inviting them to have a go, to have first shot at you --- that for me is pointless --- you get in there get stuck in and then defend if you have to otherwise you just don't stop unless you really have to
> 
> something else to try - feint a jab, left uppercut into the body, knee to the face if you get the uppercut nailed  you've gotta be going forward to be able to capitalise on knees and elbows --- at fight school they teach you to go forward cos there's no merit in going backwards cos you're inviting your oppo to knock shades out of you




Hmm, whats your height and weight, donna mate? I'm not sure if I entirely agree with the concept of not going backwards. I admit, i'm not your most aggressive sparring partner, but my defence is pretty aggressive. If I go back and somebody goes forward, I often make them pay for it. I think as I get more experienced, I can use it to lure them into traps and the like by using more footwork.

When I go backwards with my arm stretched out, I find that I don't get hit much. I avoid shots easier and my defence is just good. 

You're right in that it may lead people into thinking they can do what they want to me, but I am going through great pains to make sure I can counter or disrupt them. I think I was successful on sunday because I picked certain moments to be aggressive. I understand that Muay Thai ain't like boxing, and that evasive techniques are often frowned upon, but using my lean back then strike method hasn't necessarily hurt me too much in the recent months. My face has no deformities due to moving back/leaning back to avoid shots, and i'm able to counter. The main issue with the going backwards style is that when we sometimes use the ring, I get cornered which leaves me feeling vulnerable. But then I guess that's when footwork comes into it. 

I'll tell you what, though..i'm going to take your advice come friday...i'm going to go forwards in the vain of other southpaw fighters like Yodsaenklai Fairtex, Aikpracha and Samkor. I'm going to test out that style and see if it works for me. I won't go back, just forward forward and i'll see if I can be effective. I hope I can. 

I'm also not sure about your theory regarding the knees and elbows. As I understand it, they can be devastating counters against an aggressive opponent. I guess I feel comfortable using the 'matador' style, but i'll try your method, mate.


----------



## donnaTKD

i'm 5 foot 8 inches and weigh just over 60kg  it's all girly muscle too 

here's some more for you all offense   front kick to the abs, side step to right, left knee to abs plus step in and launch a right elbow to the jaw 

they throw a front kick - you catch it, throw it to one side and then launch a high roundhouse to the side that you threw their leg to 

by being offensive in nature you gotta be able to sway, "dance", your footwork and body movement have to be lightning quick (it takes time to get this sorted) and you'll find that the natural counter to a jab is knee to the abs the knees and elbows and you'll be successful  

you got long enough legs to just step in throw an elbow (cross or uppercut - your choice) and then rock back on your back leg to escape any counter they may throw at you 

here's a lead out for you -- 2 jabs, left cross, step left, right knee, high right roundhouse 

2 jabs, left cross, low roundhouse, right uppercut, left high roundhouse 

i hate fighting other girlies too cos they just don't really put any effort into either sparring or fighting so i fight and train against the boys and they don't hold back either   most of them weigh well more than me too and have a longer reach and plenty of power in their shots and they know how to take a good shot too


----------



## drop bear

A trick to pick off a lanky guy is to go backwards the idea is that it is harder and takes longer to go forwards then backwards than it is to go backwards and then backwards faster.

So you go backwards he comes forwards you go forwards and you close that gap a bit easier.


----------



## Muay Thai Hackney

donnaTKD said:


> i'm 5 foot 8 inches and weigh just over 60kg  it's all girly muscle too
> 
> here's some more for you all offense   front kick to the abs, side step to right, left knee to abs plus step in and launch a right elbow to the jaw
> 
> they throw a front kick - you catch it, throw it to one side and then launch a high roundhouse to the side that you threw their leg to
> 
> by being offensive in nature you gotta be able to sway, "dance", your footwork and body movement have to be lightning quick (it takes time to get this sorted) and you'll find that the natural counter to a jab is knee to the abs the knees and elbows and you'll be successful
> 
> you got long enough legs to just step in throw an elbow (cross or uppercut - your choice) and then rock back on your back leg to escape any counter they may throw at you
> 
> here's a lead out for you -- 2 jabs, left cross, step left, right knee, high right roundhouse
> 
> 2 jabs, left cross, low roundhouse, right uppercut, left high roundhouse
> 
> i hate fighting other girlies too cos they just don't really put any effort into either sparring or fighting so i fight and train against the boys and they don't hold back either   most of them weigh well more than me too and have a longer reach and plenty of power in their shots and they know how to take a good shot too




Whoa, hold up - You're a GIRL, DonnaTDK?????? :/ :/ :/


Thought you were a guy!!!! Can't believe that, I guess it was right there in front of me what with your screename being 'donna' and all 

I have to confess that the few times I have been up against women, I go super soft on them. I don't even hit the face, just light tap kicks to their legs. Women are too delicate and it just feels too weird to even jab against them ): 

There was this woman particular girl who's quite short and wanted to get used to fighter taller people, so i went a round with her and allowed her to get comfortable with my size by allowing her to get in close and knee me.  I''ll try and give her better advice next time as I know what works for little people.

Those are interesting combos you've given, it's fun to experiment. What i usually do when you guys give me advice or a combo is shadow box it for about 5 mins each day so that it gets easier and easier to use it in sparring. I'll give it a go and see what works for me. 

Right now i'm working on counter fighting as it's important against guys my size or over. At 6,2 and 185lbs, I seem to a number of options and the leading with an attack and rocking back on my back leg like you suggested works well, so i'm going to do that quite a bit friday, except i'm going to come forward only. I want to get somebody backing up for once!


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## donnaTKD

don't worry about it people think that cos i train and fight muay thai then i gotta be a guy 

going super soft on us doesn't do anything for us tbh - we want the full experience and those that i train with know that i fight so i get a decent contest.  i too have found that guys either go for my head or my abs and the kicks were very tame as well 

shadow boxing in front of a mirror allows you to get your positioning right and you can also see if you've got your hands and body in the right places 

i got a freestanding RDX body (man) and put that in front of the mirror just to make my home practice a bit more realistic 

you also need to be training at home for a lot longer than 5 minutes at a time  --- my home training sessions are about an hour long and i do them twice a day  --- you gotta know what your body is doing cos if get that nailed then the speed, power and awareness will be natural you won't need to think about anything other than what's coming at you


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## Muay Thai Hackney

donnaTKD said:


> don't worry about it people think that cos i train and fight muay thai then i gotta be a guy
> 
> going super soft on us doesn't do anything for us tbh - we want the full experience and those that i train with know that i fight so i get a decent contest.  i too have found that guys either go for my head or my abs and the kicks were very tame as well
> 
> shadow boxing in front of a mirror allows you to get your positioning right and you can also see if you've got your hands and body in the right places
> 
> i got a freestanding RDX body (man) and put that in front of the mirror just to make my home practice a bit more realistic
> 
> you also need to be training at home for a lot longer than 5 minutes at a time  --- my home training sessions are about an hour long and i do them twice a day  --- you gotta know what your body is doing cos if get that nailed then the speed, power and awareness will be natural you won't need to think about anything other than what's coming at you



I know it's somewhat wrong to treat women differently in the sessions...I just can't help it hence why I avoid sparring with women, even if they happen to be beautiful. 

I like your advice about shadow boxing in front of the mirror. We just got one at home, and I haven't taken advantage of it, but yeah, I can see how it may help with getting your shape and posture right. I'll give it a go just before bed. 

I only go Muay Thai twice a week (which is enough given my circumstances and the intensive training we do there, but I am constantly discovering the importance of 'home work'. Your right, 5 mins per day of training is nothing and I made sure I did almost 30 mins the other day. 

So my question to you, female warrior, is what exactly should i train at home that will help me in my actual Muay Thai classes and sparring??  I really need to get that muscle memory going. Tell me what you do within your hour of home training.


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## donnaTKD

^^^female warrior LoL^^^ like that 

ok here goes and i hope that i don't miss anything out 

warm up --- skipping for 2 minutes (my house has high ceilings )
then pushups for 2 minutes
then sit ups for 2 minutes
then kettlebell sit ups for 2 minutes -- 1 twisting your body as you come up so the "bell" goes to the side of you and 1 minute of kettlebell sit ups with no twist 
2 minutes of leg raises

if i'm training at home then i also do 2 minutes of inclined sit ups 

2minutes to stretch off properly and have a slurp 

main event --- 

next comes the bag work --- 4 minutes of alternating knees and elbows and combinations thereof making sure that your posture is correct and (use a mirror) that your technique is good too 

4 minutes of jabs and cross punches
2 minutes of uppercuts
4 minutes of alternating hook punches
5 minutes of right kicks -- my bag has markers on it for low, middle and high kicks --- alternating between low, mid and high
5 minutes of left kicks -- same bag  -- alternating between low, mid and high kicks.

back down on the floor 

2 minutes of shoulder raises --- you lie flat on your tummy, put your hands on the side of your head and raise your chest and shoulders off the floor as far as possible 
2 minutes of step ups with at least 5kg held in the guard position 
2 minutes of step ups with at least 5kg held in your hands and arms fully extended downwards 

2 minutes to stretch off properly

back on the bag

2 minutes of hooks and uppercuts

drills --- pick a straight line and go along it and back again for each of these --- 2 minutes each along the line --- 1 minute each facing forwards and going forwards then still facing the same way do the same exercise 1minute facing forwards but moving backwards   what you're looking for is power, speed and precision 

solitary jabs
jab and cross 
jab, cross, hook
jab, cross, jab, cross
jab, cross, jab, cross, knee

remaining time to stretch off and have slurp 

some days i also do an extra half hour of weights -- nothing too heavy just enough to keep nicely toned 

hope this helps


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## donnaTKD

sometimes i create a circuit and just go through that with little or no bag work at all --- just general conditioning, 

so you've got skipping, kettlebell exercises, med ball stuff, dumbell (10kg) and barbell (25kg), short sprints, dips and step ups 

1 hour circuit


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## Muay Thai Hackney

donnaTKD said:


> ^^^female warrior LoL^^^ like that
> 
> ok here goes and i hope that i don't miss anything out
> 
> warm up --- skipping for 2 minutes (my house has high ceilings )
> then pushups for 2 minutes
> then sit ups for 2 minutes
> then kettlebell sit ups for 2 minutes -- 1 twisting your body as you come up so the "bell" goes to the side of you and 1 minute of kettlebell sit ups with no twist
> 2 minutes of leg raises
> 
> if i'm training at home then i also do 2 minutes of inclined sit ups
> 
> 2minutes to stretch off properly and have a slurp
> 
> main event ---
> 
> next comes the bag work --- 4 minutes of alternating knees and elbows and combinations thereof making sure that your posture is correct and (use a mirror) that your technique is good too
> 
> 4 minutes of jabs and cross punches
> 2 minutes of uppercuts
> 4 minutes of alternating hook punches
> 5 minutes of right kicks -- my bag has markers on it for low, middle and high kicks --- alternating between low, mid and high
> 5 minutes of left kicks -- same bag  -- alternating between low, mid and high kicks.
> 
> back down on the floor
> 
> 2 minutes of shoulder raises --- you lie flat on your tummy, put your hands on the side of your head and raise your chest and shoulders off the floor as far as possible
> 2 minutes of step ups with at least 5kg held in the guard position
> 2 minutes of step ups with at least 5kg held in your hands and arms fully extended downwards
> 
> 2 minutes to stretch off properly
> 
> back on the bag
> 
> 2 minutes of hooks and uppercuts
> 
> drills --- pick a straight line and go along it and back again for each of these --- 2 minutes each along the line --- 1 minute each facing forwards and going forwards then still facing the same way do the same exercise 1minute facing forwards but moving backwards   what you're looking for is power, speed and precision
> 
> solitary jabs
> jab and cross
> jab, cross, hook
> jab, cross, jab, cross
> jab, cross, jab, cross, knee
> 
> remaining time to stretch off and have slurp
> 
> some days i also do an extra half hour of weights -- nothing too heavy just enough to keep nicely toned
> 
> hope this helps




That's a tall order. Way too much work for me and a bit complicated. Think i'll stick to 3-4 rounds of fast shadow boxing.

I already do pull ups almost everyday and like the kettle bell swing movements as they encourage hip extension and explosion and feel they have help with my power a bit. 

I do like the forwards/backwards drill you mentioned though so I may give it a quick go tonight. Almost play time tomorrow


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## donnaTKD

the forwards / backwards drill is one that i've only been taught since i moved to my new gym 

i find it helps cos going forwards is more or less all about getting stuck in   and going backwards even though you're still getting stuck in it helps to put your feet in the right places every time so you don't have to worry about what your feet are doing cos they'll already be where you want them to be 

the amount of time that i spend training is there cos i've been fighting more and more over the last few years so i started extending my workouts.

when you do your shadow boxing whether it be forwards / backwards or just a shadow make sure that you give every shot plenty of power don't be tempted to back off cos there's no one there.

if you can get yourself a 5ft bag --- rdx do 5ft bag (you'll need longer bolts for fixing the bracket to the wall though) and kit sets for about £60 --- what you will find is that if you do your shadow boxing against the bag will improve cos you got a target to aim at so you'll find it easier when praticing


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## donnaTKD

most fights are either 3 rounds or 5 rounds so the way i train gives me enough to go 7 rounds therefore giving me more power, strength and fitness over the shorter distances 

by only training 3 or 4 rounds you're cheating yourself cos as soon as you go into your gym where everyone is training for 7 rounds or more you're gunna ger found wanting and you won't be able to stay with them without getting mullered


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## Muay Thai Hackney

donnaTKD said:


> most fights are either 3 rounds or 5 rounds so the way i train gives me enough to go 7 rounds therefore giving me more power, strength and fitness over the shorter distances
> 
> by only training 3 or 4 rounds you're cheating yourself cos as soon as you go into your gym where everyone is training for 7 rounds or more you're gunna ger found wanting and you won't be able to stay with them without getting mullered



I certainly don't wanna get mullered, Donna ): 

I get your point and it makes sense. But I am worried about overtraining. Don't you ever have days off babes?  

I tried the backwards/forwards thing about 20 mins ago. Seems alright, and I can see the science behind it. I'm just open to everything which is important with combat sports. 

Can't believe I'm saying this but Muay Thai has made me TOO muscular :/ I used to strength train from my late teens until last year, and even though i built a strong body, it's never felt stronger, more mobile, more powerful and and aesthetically pleasing than when I started to Muay Thai..and that's with just bodyweight and a kettle bell. 

What does your warm up consist of, babes?


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## drop bear

Muay Thai Hackney said:


> I certainly don't wanna get mullered, Donna ):
> 
> I get your point and it makes sense. But I am worried about overtraining. Don't you ever have days off babes?
> 
> I tried the backwards/forwards thing about 20 mins ago. Seems alright, and I can see the science behind it. I'm just open to everything which is important with combat sports.
> 
> Can't believe I'm saying this but Muay Thai has made me TOO muscular :/ I used to strength train from my late teens until last year, and even though i built a strong body, it's never felt stronger, more mobile, more powerful and and aesthetically pleasing than when I started to Muay Thai..and that's with just bodyweight and a kettle bell.
> 
> What does your warm up consist of, babes?



You can taper on and off but over training is pretty much a myth. You can over train but your a stage hobbiest does not approach that.


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## Muay Thai Hackney

I guess I can get away with the pull ups and shadow boxing 6 times a week.

Bear bear, have you noticed the benefits of pull ups in relation to Muay Thai? I've been doing gymnastic style pull ups by Pavel where my legs are nearly horizontal as opposed to crossed below my bum. I feel like it's given me good strength in the clinch. What about you???


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## donnaTKD

i saw someone doing pull ups then hanging by their arms and doing leg raises  -- seemed a lot of hard work to me   i then read a piece by some scientist that said this exercise is a full body workout and gives you insane abs as a result 

my warm up --- see the piece i wrote where i listed everything   it's a near total cardio blast 

what's a day off ?????  i train 7 days but i built up to that -- when i first started MT i used to do it twice a week and then as i got stronger and fitter i increased the amount of time i spent on training and upped the number of days i trained to every other day and then got to a point where i just trained every day for fun and cos i love my muscles   my arms are twice the size they were when i first started and a lot stronger too 

i keep passing my annual mot at the doctors with flying colours so why change what works ?????


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## donnaTKD

one other thing --- you said you got a kettlebell   i got a med ball same weight as well as a kettlebell  

the med ball exercises are identical to the kettlebell ones it's just your arm and hand positions are different and puts different amounts of force on different muscle groups   therefore increasing your muscle and muscle tone more than what you've got now 

another suggestion --- i went to an aerobics class with a friend just for a laugh and i have never ever worked harder in all my life -- it's a full on cardio blast for an hour   and don't think that cos it's aerobics that it'll be full of girls cos quite a few guys go too   it's a lot of fun, you'll make new friends and you'll go home absolutely exhausted and ready to drop


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## Muay Thai Hackney

I can imagine an aerobics class being quite strenuous. I may give it a go at some point, but honestly, the two times a week Muay Thai sessions are already kicking my ****. 

Yeah, I got a kettle bell. It's 16kgs (which is a bit too light for me these days) and all I do are kettle bell swings. I can see how the kettle bell sit ups would mimic the medicine ball ones. Pull ups combined with the swings have still allowed me to develop a respectable set of abs...I got punched a lot in the mid section today and it didn't really slow me down, and I honestly believe it's to do with the compound exercises I do. 

I'm a bit of a loner (I like it that way) so even if I did go to a class, I suspect I wouldn't make any friends anyway.  

To be honest i'm not in a good mood anyway donna , I just had the worst sparring session I have had for a long time. Awful, just awful. I was paired up against a guy my height, but who outweighed me by at almost 3 stone. He was just too big. We didn't go all out or anything and I never got beat up or anything, but it was awkward and I kept hurting myself on his knee with my left kick. And it was mostly just him I was paired up with. He was a nice guy, but it was just too awkward.

I did get to spar with one other geezer before we finished. A polish guy, very polite. I've sparred with him before, he's not very athletic or powerful but he has good technique, but yeah, could barely do what I wanted.

The most annoying thing was my kru telling me to stop 'running away'. I always speed circle when an opponent rushes forward, making then hit thin air, but every single instructor at my gym frowns upon that and places me in the ring, where I can't do that. What the **** is so bad about circling out and using speedy footwork to them? They hate it and I don't see why when it clearly benefits me. It's got nothing to do with me being afraid and everything to do with frustrating my opponent and looking for openings. Can't believe they keep having a go about that with me. Annoying. Ok, next time i'll just stand there and cover up while I get the seven bells beaten out of me. **** sakes.


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## donnaTKD

nothing is wrrong with getting the hell out of the way especially if can counter with a kick or knee into their abs 

i'd say at this point and i don't say it lightly either - you need to go check out another gym and get yourself a new coach - my own coach told me that going toe to toe was really bad news and that i might last 1 or 2 rounds but anything more would be suicidal.  

OFFENCE - you strike first  

DEFENCE - you cover up and get out of the way 

COUNTER - you strike back before they can strike you 

there is nothing wrong with your technique as i read it - someone coming at you you step to the side and then cut them in half with a mid knee or mid kick or you can put them on the floor by kicking the back of the knee on their backleg.

not surprised that you're unhappy and just a bit hacked off --- i would be - i go into a ring and go offensive but i know when to get out.  by circling you're just making yourself harder to hit and you'rer more able to do the stuff that you want to do --- might be that your coach doesn't see any agression coming from you ---- idk..........

my own coach is going for a european muay thai lightweight title next month so he knows a thing or two 

((((monster hugz))))


----------



## Muay Thai Hackney

donnaTKD said:


> nothing is wrrong with getting the hell out of the way especially if can counter with a kick or knee into their abs
> 
> i'd say at this point and i don't say it lightly either - you need to go check out another gym and get yourself a new coach - my own coach told me that going toe to toe was really bad news and that i might last 1 or 2 rounds but anything more would be suicidal.
> 
> OFFENCE - you strike first
> 
> DEFENCE - you cover up and get out of the way
> 
> COUNTER - you strike back before they can strike you
> 
> there is nothing wrong with your technique as i read it - someone coming at you you step to the side and then cut them in half with a mid knee or mid kick or you can put them on the floor by kicking the back of the knee on their backleg.
> 
> not surprised that you're unhappy and just a bit hacked off --- i would be - i go into a ring and go offensive but i know when to get out.  by circling you're just making yourself harder to hit and you'rer more able to do the stuff that you want to do --- might be that your coach doesn't see any agression coming from you ---- idk..........
> 
> my own coach is going for a european muay thai lightweight title next month so he knows a thing or two
> 
> ((((monster hugz))))




Thanks Donna. I really needed to hear that. Maybe it's because I don't often take advantage of people chasing me...I only take advantage when I know for sure that I can get a hit out of them, but the fact is, I just made this person miserable missing all of their shots. 

Fact is, like you said, anyone can be aggressive. This is where I don't really like seeing the Thais themselves fight, they don't move, they are just static and are simply content to block and hit, block and hit, block and hit. Not only is it boring but you're still taking damage, man. Getting punched and kicked on the forearms/leg is going to add up, even if it's light. I only block when I need to. 

What's your coaches name?? I don't think I should change gyms. I already changed from one gym to another about 6 months ago, and, for the most part, i'm happy with the gym even though their warm ups are insane. I just think that my style appears too timid for them, even though i'm not timid. I just don't want to throw stuff that I know is either gonna get countered or blocked. I dunno, maybe I suck at fighting guys my own height or bigger. 

But thank you so much for your reassurance. I need it ): 

You've been very helpful.


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## donnaTKD

my coach is called Scott Dixon and he runs Optimum Muay Thai out of Musclehouse Gym in warrington cheshire 

you gotta do what's best for you and going toe to toe is neither use nor ornament to anyone - but and it is a big but you gotta get stuck in.

here's defense move coming at you throwing punches - block with a jab, left cross, left elbow, step to the left and plant your knee in their abs.

low kick defense --- block with shin and at the same time front kick to their abs.  

i thought that you would've been taught more about defense than you have --- i getting more disappointed that you've not been taught properly.

are you at a fight school ????? cos if you are then you're in the wrong environment - they only want to see people that have already got skills tbh and that won't do you any good especially when there's some really good MT instructors in your part of the world


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## donnaTKD

instead of worrying if you're shots are gunna get blocked or whatever - throw your shot you know it'll get blocked right but you floow it up 

for instance --- you throw a jab and it gets blocked right but they won't see the left hook that's coming behind it --- this just to give you an idea of what you can do.

one other point get yourself a bag to practice with --- it's all well and good being able to take a punch kick what ever if you don't know how or where to move to so you can a counter in -- a swinging bag will most definitely help with that.

oh and you're most welcome


----------



## Muay Thai Hackney

donnaTKD said:


> my coach is called Scott Dixon and he runs Optimum Muay Thai out of Musclehouse Gym in warrington cheshire   you gotta do what's best for you and going toe to toe is neither use nor ornament to anyone - but and it is a big but you gotta get stuck in.  here's defense move coming at you throwing punches - block with a jab, left cross, left elbow, step to the left and plant your knee in their abs.  low kick defense --- block with shin and at the same time front kick to their abs.    i thought that you would've been taught more about defense than you have --- i getting more disappointed that you've not been taught properly.  are you at a fight school ????? cos if you are then you're in the wrong environment - they only want to see people that have already got skills tbh and that won't do you any good especially when there's some really good MT instructors in your part of the world


  Whoa, hold it right there....i've got skills, 9/10 i hold my own against the intermediate group...i've been doing Muay Thai almost a year now...my defence isnt poor...its just influenced by boxing and lyoto machida footwork which comes across anti Muay Thai...i go to the best Muay Thi gym in the country and of course i have been taught defence ...i know how to parry, to check, to clinch, to pivot and the techniques to execute the techniques ......im just looking for further advice as at the end of the day, im left handed and have to constantly modify techniques shown to me to suit my stance...i got good skill, i just need to get comfortable putting it together .  what do you mean by fight school ??? our gym is well known for its hard sparring and interclub fights


----------



## drop bear

Muay Thai Hackney said:


> I guess I can get away with the pull ups and shadow boxing 6 times a week.
> 
> Bear bear, have you noticed the benefits of pull ups in relation to Muay Thai? I've been doing gymnastic style pull ups by Pavel where my legs are nearly horizontal as opposed to crossed below my bum. I feel like it's given me good strength in the clinch. What about you???




I MMA so I wrestle and it may be different.


----------



## drop bear

Muay Thai Hackney said:


> Whoa, hold it right there....i've got skills, 9/10 i hold my own against the intermediate group...i've been doing Muay Thai almost a year now...my defence isnt poor...its just influenced by boxing and lyoto machida footwork which comes across anti Muay Thai...i go to the best Muay Thi gym in the country and of course i have been taught defence ...i know how to parry, to check, to clinch, to pivot and the techniques to execute the techniques ......im just looking for further advice as at the end of the day, im left handed and have to constantly modify techniques shown to me to suit my stance...i got good skill, i just need to get comfortable putting it together .  what do you mean by fight school ??? our gym is well known for its hard sparring and interclub fights



A fight school as an example.
Fighters

A mate of mine nick trask trains there.

My school is WMA. In airlie beach.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-YUM-2dniJk


----------



## Muay Thai Hackney

drop bear said:


> A fight school as an example.
> Fighters
> 
> A mate of mine nick trask trains there.
> 
> My school is WMA. In airlie beach.
> http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-YUM-2dniJk




I see. Never really heard about these fight schools. Looks interesting but seem like they are geared towards people with amateur and pro records. Obviously I have none of that, i'm just a bloke who trains for fun and may compete in a few inter club matches or so. 

I think my problem is - and one of my coaches addressed it to me too... is that I am too considerate of others when I spar or drill. I think about not hurting them than perfecting my technique. I sort of avoided that line of thinking last sunday and did really well. I think i'm also worried about hurting my shin or feet on an elbow or knee or something too, so i've been overly cautious with my kicks all because i hurt them a few times..well I wasn't hurting them when I first started so i'm going back to that mind set.

At the end of the day, I think I have to think more about what I want to get out of it rather than the other person's well being because, lets face it, people would rather hurt somebody than get hurt themselves. I was great last sunday because I just didn't give a ****, so now i'm going back to that mind set and i'm staying with it. It's either go hard or go home whether it's a beginner to the intermediate group or not. The only exceptions will be women.

Thank you all for you help in this thread, but I feel like I have exhausted your advice. I know what I have to do now. Cheers.


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## donnaTKD

wasn't having a go at you MTH was just trying to see what type of environment you're working in s'all 

so from what you said in your last piece - you're just short of confidence, the confidence to go out there and do damage to someone else --- you're not scared of being hit or throwing a punch etc.... you're scared that you might hurt the other person and i can understand that.  if you've got everything pretty much nailed down then i still can't understand your coaches view to it all as being a toe to toe boring scrap until someone drops 

i train at fight school too under the instruction of Dave Jackson who is one of the best coaches both here and in the US he coaches mainly MMA.


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## Muay Thai Hackney

donnaTKD said:


> wasn't having a go at you MTH was just trying to see what type of environment you're working in s'all
> 
> so from what you said in your last piece - you're just short of confidence, the confidence to go out there and do damage to someone else --- you're not scared of being hit or throwing a punch etc.... you're scared that you might hurt the other person and i can understand that.  if you've got everything pretty much nailed down then i still can't understand your coaches view to it all as being a toe to toe boring scrap until someone drops
> 
> i train at fight school too under the instruction of Dave Jackson who is one of the best coaches both here and in the US he coaches mainly MMA.




It's ok. Sorry I reacted a bit, thought you were taking the piss out of my skills or something. I apologise. 

Yeah, it's a combination of my own power and coming across as a dick. I'm not a nasty person. At all. It took me awhile to get comfortable punching people in the face ffs. But now i just don't care, my well being is important and if i am to improve, i've got to look at each sparring partner as a potential fight. I can take a good punch, but I don't necessarily want to, so i'll use my range to pick apart people, and if i meet somebody close to my size or bigger, i'll work their legs and body HARD with counter fighting. 

Dave Jackson, isn't he from Wolfslaire? They have a good reputation. You and drop bear do MMA then? That's nice, though i must confess that i'm not a fan of MMA at all. I liked watching Machida as he brought an sense of art to it with his beautiful evasion techniques, but other than that, MMA just feels like the thing all the cool kids do these days. 

Every idiot who I have met in person who does some form of combat sports has been big on MMA or think that they are going to be the next GSP or whatever. They don't carry themselves like guys who do Muay Thai or even boxing do. Most are just a bunch of tough guys with tap out t-shirts and they annoy me! Sorry for the rant, couldn't help it. Yourself and drop bear came from Muay Thai so I can see why you'd want to try out MMA.


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## donnaTKD

Dave Jackson runs MMA at Cheshire Martial Arts in Warrington Cheshire   he also helps out with the Muay Thai sessions and some self defence classes at fight school

my coach scott dixon is fighting at blackpool winter gardens in september - european lightweight muay thai title is up for grabs -- not too sure of the date yet - only just found out where it's being held 

Drop Bear trains MMA and I train Muay Thai   think that cos we both contribute in both muay thai and mma forums it may be a little bit confusing  sorry.

i've got no interest in training MMA -- I do however fight in a cage most of the time   a long time ago a few of us bought a cage instead of a ring cos it was "cool" and now we use it for all sorts of fights   just means that those that go into the cage really want to fight.


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## donnaTKD

train hard and then train some more 

like you said GO HARD or GO HOME --- there's no point training like the devil if you're going to go easy in the ring is there ? 

then you said go easy on the girls -- why ????? they're there to learn as well if you're not going to play a full part in it then go home -- we've got as many skills as you have so none of this backing off just cos it's a girl -- yeah ?????


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## Muay Thai Hackney

donnaTKD said:


> Dave Jackson runs MMA at Cheshire Martial Arts in Warrington Cheshire   he also helps out with the Muay Thai sessions and some self defence classes at fight school
> 
> my coach scott dixon is fighting at blackpool winter gardens in september - european lightweight muay thai title is up for grabs -- not too sure of the date yet - only just found out where it's being held
> 
> Drop Bear trains MMA and I train Muay Thai   think that cos we both contribute in both muay thai and mma forums it may be a little bit confusing  sorry.
> 
> i've got no interest in training MMA -- I do however fight in a cage most of the time   a long time ago a few of us bought a cage instead of a ring cos it was "cool" and now we use it for all sorts of fights   just means that those that go into the cage really want to fight.



Seen youtube vids of this Dave Jackson guy, he seems like a decent bloke. What's his background though? Pure MMA?

I guess a cage could be handy in the sense that it gives you a lot more room to move about it and doesn't feel as claustrophobic as the ring.


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## Muay Thai Hackney

donnaTKD said:


> train hard and then train some more
> 
> like you said GO HARD or GO HOME --- there's no point training like the devil if you're going to go easy in the ring is there ?
> 
> *then you said go easy on the girls -- why ????? they're there to learn as well if you're not going to play a full part in it then go home -- we've got as many skills as you have so none of this backing off just cos it's a girl -- yeah ?????*



I don't want to be controversial but this is where I have traditional views. Maybe it's my caribbean heritage, maybe it's that i was brought up by my mum and sister, I don't know. I have the utmost respect for you women, I honestly do - but I am tired of seeing some of the girls at the gym get hurt at the smallest thing. 

One guy, a small guy, lightly tripped up a sweet but slight looking girl after she threw a teep...she tripped and banged her head hard on the mat. She was crying and everything and it was very uncomfortable and I hated that she had to go through that. This guy wasn't being a dick, he just did what the coach asked him to do, but, in the end, she couldn't take it and I have seen her back since ): She couldn't take it because her body isn't built for such things, and, unfortunately, that's true of most women. 

Now, that's not to say that there aren't strong women out there who can dish and take some proper punishment..one of our star fighters is a female and she's EXCELLENT, especially with elbows, but theres a reason why women only fight women, just like theres a reason for weight categories. Again, i'm not sexist...some of my favourite protagonists are female like Ellen Ripley and Pam Grier and all that, but I am not, and I mean NOT going to go hard on women in the gym. I'm just not. I have a code, and i'm sticking with it. This will not compromise me or them in anyway shape of form. Why? Because I can still help them without fighting them like a guy.

For example, over a week ago, I was paired with this girl who was not comfortable going up against people taller than her. Very attractive girl and very respectful, but not very confident in her abilities. I suggested that she drill techniques on me which required her to get on the inside then back out before I can damage her with my strikes. I think it was jab, switch knee to the stomach and then hook and back out. After that she said she was very thankful and it helped her a lot and gave her more confidence, and it showed. Her skin was glowing and everything. If I had went in there and started left kicking her and the like, it would have been a disaster, surely??????


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## drop bear

Muay Thai Hackney said:


> I don't want to be controversial but this is where I have traditional views. Maybe it's my caribbean heritage, maybe it's that i was brought up by my mum and sister, I don't know. I have the utmost respect for you women, I honestly do - but I am tired of seeing some of the girls at the gym get hurt at the smallest thing.
> 
> One guy, a small guy, lightly tripped up a sweet but slight looking girl after she threw a teep...she tripped and banged her head hard on the mat. She was crying and everything and it was very uncomfortable and I hated that she had to go through that. This guy wasn't being a dick, he just did what the coach asked him to do, but, in the end, she couldn't take it and I have seen her back since ): She couldn't take it because her body isn't built for such things, and, unfortunately, that's true of most women.
> 
> Now, that's not to say that there aren't strong women out there who can dish and take some proper punishment..one of our star fighters is a female and she's EXCELLENT, especially with elbows, but theres a reason why women only fight women, just like theres a reason for weight categories. Again, i'm not sexist...some of my favourite protagonists are female like Ellen Ripley and Pam Grier and all that, but I am not, and I mean NOT going to go hard on women in the gym. I'm just not. I have a code, and i'm sticking with it. This will not compromise me or them in anyway shape of form. Why? Because I can still help them without fighting them like a guy.
> 
> For example, over a week ago, I was paired with this girl who was not comfortable going up against people taller than her. Very attractive girl and very respectful, but not very confident in her abilities. I suggested that she drill techniques on me which required her to get on the inside then back out before I can damage her with my strikes. I think it was jab, switch knee to the stomach and then hook and back out. After that she said she was very thankful and it helped her a lot and gave her more confidence, and it showed. Her skin was glowing and everything. If I had went in there and started left kicking her and the like, it would have been a disaster, surely??????




Yeah that is fine. You are sepparating hobbiests with fighters.

One is appreciated one often isn't. The reason being that if you go easy at the times you are supposed to go hard you are setting up that fighter to be bashed and embarrassed in front of their friends which is not cool.

And by often. Even if they are fighters it is not licence to go trying to tear their heads off all the time.

Got a mate of mine who has a fight coming up. So sparring at the moment is extra nasty.


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## donnaTKD

know what you mean about things getting exttra bad  

some of the guys in our gym have an interclubg comp coming up in the next few weeks and i've had to go and get full body armour --- they just start seeing red and i hate hospitals 

suppose now that drop bear puts it like that i can understand what you're saying and the way you put things MTH in that you're helping them with their technique  i like that


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## Muay Thai Hackney

drop bear said:


> Yeah that is fine. You are sepparating hobbiests with fighters.
> 
> One is appreciated one often isn't. The reason being that if you go easy at the times you are supposed to go hard you are setting up that fighter to be bashed and embarrassed in front of their friends which is not cool.
> 
> And by often. Even if they are fighters it is not licence to go trying to tear their heads off all the time.
> 
> Got a mate of mine who has a fight coming up. So sparring at the moment is extra nasty.



Yeah, see, I don't think I would make a good sparring partner for our amateur or professional thai fighters then. I'd just refuse if I was asked. You are right though, you have to separate the two. 

What exercises have benefitted your MMA/MT game, bear bear? I swear by pull ups for muay thai personally. 



> know what you mean about things getting exttra bad
> 
> some of the guys in our gym have an interclubg comp coming up in the next few weeks and i've had to go and get full body armour --- they just start seeing red and i hate hospitals
> 
> suppose now that drop bear puts it like that i can understand what you're saying and the way you put things MTH in that you're helping them with their technique  i like that ​



Yeah, especially if they are new, you know? A lot of women, I find, take up Muay Thai to raise their confidence, so when they see a 6,2 85kg behemoth like me standing in front of them and they are able to get in a knee or something then that can only be a positive. 


Had a better technical sparring session yesterday. Second sunday in a row, lol. Maybe I should just spar sundays. Though, I don't want the gits on friday to think that i'm afraid of them, so I won't. 

I was a bit less aggressive than i was last sunday, using minimal footwork and just going at a leisurely pace with most of the guys. There was a bulky bloke i was up against for the first time, about 6ft, but quite thick. I went hard on him..not super hard, but I was not taking any chances. It was a 'technical sparring' session so we weren't out to knock each other out, but I did want to just 'get stuck in' like donna said. To be honest, I thought I gave him a good **** whooping, but he suggested at the end of the session that he likes to have people throw the first few strikes just to see what their skill level is and work from there. I call bollocks on that. 

Why? Because one, I saw his skill level...he obviously had some experience but he didn't have my speed, athleticism and cardio. He caught me with a couple of hard rights which I felt, he was a hard hitter, but I felt like I did a number on him. You mean to tell me this guy ALLOWED me to lead leg kick him to the point where he was almost hopping and damage his stomach with a nice straight left to the body??? Puh-lease. 

Now, I don't doubt that he was pulling his punches a little bit..he has knockout power for sure..but he was not letting me out skill and out strike him. I evaded most of his shots with my now trademark lean back and I kicked his right arm Yodsanklai style. It was the worst beating I had given anybody so far. Yet this guy starts hyping this other tall guy he sparred the same session and suggests he went easy on me because he saw my skill level??? Nice try mate, he said it to discourage me so I went away feeling worse than he did. 

From what I observed, I beat him way worse than the other tall bloke did. His praise for the tall guy seemed to be based on the fact that the tall guy did't let him get near him. Me? I didn't mind him coming near me because I made him pay EVERY bloody time. Dodgy.

Anyways, hope you are all enjoying your bank holidays.


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## Muay Thai Hackney

By the way, the same geezer told me this nasty little technique he does when somebody throws a left kick...he bows his elbows out and lifts it hight so the tip of the elbow meets the shin...nasty piece of work. Luckily for me, I kept aiming for his forearm/bicep area so that it weakened his hard right hand. His defence is the shot to the liver is too much for him to deal with and that he'll happily take a beating elsewhere accept that area. I say that's dodgy. Learn to check kicks or capture and evade. Don't risk Anderson silvering people..

Is his technique fair?????


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## donnaTKD

no it means that he needs extra practice and to hit the gym and get a decent set of abs 

he was trying to put you down in front of his mates and stuff when he knows that you had him trashed --- just roll with it cos the rest of guys in the gym will have seen what you did and you'll get more respect from them


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## Muay Thai Hackney

donnaTKD said:


> no it means that he needs extra practice and to hit the gym and get a decent set of abs
> 
> he was trying to put you down in front of his mates and stuff when he knows that you had him trashed --- just roll with it cos the rest of guys in the gym will have seen what you did and you'll get more respect from them



Thanks. Yeah, I suspected he did it to psych me out and make me doubt myself. It worked somewhat as I questioned what had happened, but I almost made the guy quit, so yeah, he's just talking nonsense. 

Funny thing you mention the abs thing because every person who's reacted badly to my left straight in the middle has a soft mid section. The ones who powered through it had decent abs. I always thought that was a myth but it appears to be true. It guess it s also explains why i've been hit in the stomach area and have barely flinched too  

I've started naming my weapons:

Right hand jab is the machine gun

Left straight is my shotgun

Left kick is my baseball bag.

Right lead leg kick is my baton.

Left elbow is my blunt switch blade 




I'm secure in my victory


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## donnaTKD

like it 

just don't go telling everyone about them though or they'll wise u pto what's coming next 

the abs thing --- muscle will always absorb the hit whereas flesh and fat can't so what you're doing is hitting internal organs with every shot which is why it hurts so much 

maybe you can understand now why i use the uppercut to the body so much 

don't worry about him cos his friends will have seen the bruises from every shot that he took   respect to ya - and don't go questioning yourself like this again --- too many negative vibes for my liking tbh


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## Muay Thai Hackney

So it seems I have my first inter club fight on the 5th Oct. Any advice? I was told I should do the 'hard sparring with the top fighters to prepare, but that sounds like a good way to get injured before a fight to me. Currently Training 4 days a week and shadow boxing everyday.


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## drop bear

Muay Thai Hackney said:


> So it seems I have my first inter club fight on the 5th Oct. Any advice? I was told I should do the 'hard sparring with the top fighters to prepare, but that sounds like a good way to get injured before a fight to me. Currently Training 4 days a week and shadow boxing everyday.



Generally you stop a week before to prevent injuries. 

Otherwise git fitter than you are. Hill sprints are fun.


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## donnaTKD

as per what drop bear says 

plus don't let the occasion go to your head - stick to your game plan  your coaches think that you're ready for it and have got the skills to go do the business so just treat it as a sparring session with the only difference being that your trying to KO the other person 

try the hard sparring cos it'll let you know what to expect and it'll give you a work out too   like drop bear says spend time getting fitter and building more stamina 

how many rounds are you scheduled for ????? and how long is each round ?????

above all just try and enjoy the event


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## Muay Thai Hackney

I'm scheduled for 4 1/2 min rounds. Sounds alright to me. Apparently the hard sparring session is 15 1/2 min rounds so if I go twice, and stop a week before like you both suggest, I should be fine. My cardio is definitely improved and will go to lengths to have it at it's optimum come that day.


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## donnaTKD

that's the first time i've heard of 1/2minute rounds  shouldbe easy then cos you can just go for it cos there won't be much time for anything coming the other way   just get stuck in don't worry about anything just "lose control" 

the hard sessions are a really good idea   so go for it - it'll toughen you up and then you spend the rest of the day running up and down a hill 

when i fight it's either 3 or 5 rounds and each round is 3 minutes so you got off lightly


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## Muay Thai Hackney

donnaTKD said:


> that's the first time i've heard of 1/2minute rounds  shouldbe easy then cos you can just go for it cos there won't be much time for anything coming the other way   just get stuck in don't worry about anything just "lose control"
> 
> the hard sessions are a really good idea   so go for it - it'll toughen you up and then you spend the rest of the day running up and down a hill
> 
> when i fight it's either 3 or 5 rounds and each round is 3 minutes so you got off lightly



Cheers Donna. Though I don't know about the hill running after what's likely to be a session of me getting the **** kicked out of me :/

Yeah, 1 and a half min rounds should be fine. If I keep up my cardio, I shouldn't get tired. 

Teeps are becoming a more important and effective weapon in my arsenal. Didn't even use my left roundhouse kick during light sparring the other day.


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## donnaTKD

sparring is there for you to get everything working properly.

if you don't use something then how do you know that you're gunna be able to rely on it come the big day ????? you don't !!!!! so you use everything and throw everything as you mean it and then come the big day everything will hit home as you mean it to 

the hard sessions will teach you that your skills need to be maxed you need to be on your game from bell to bell with no if's or but's yeah ?????  

i've been where you are got complacent - thought it was a bit of a laugh and ended fighting for my life because i didn't treat with respect.


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## drop bear

donnaTKD said:


> that's the first time i've heard of 1/2minute rounds  shouldbe easy then cos you can just go for it cos there won't be much time for anything coming the other way   just get stuck in don't worry about anything just "lose control"
> 
> the hard sessions are a really good idea   so go for it - it'll toughen you up and then you spend the rest of the day running up and down a hill
> 
> when i fight it's either 3 or 5 rounds and each round is 3 minutes so you got off lightly




Not so much because they are 1/2 minute flat knacker. If he is matched with someone else as good they are pretty fun.

Op. Get your bloody sprints on. Do them in the morning.


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