# A standing meditation experiment…. Kinda sorta



## Xue Sheng (Nov 20, 2016)

A standing meditation experiment…. Kinda sorta - from the blog


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## greytowhite (Nov 20, 2016)

Aye, my first teacher came to similar conclusions. That said, he regularly watched TV in tree holding stance from Yiquan. Why? So his kids would do it too.


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## Gerry Seymour (Nov 20, 2016)

As you point out in the blog, I think the different approaches feed different needs. I suspect the ability to stand longer in any given stance (the stance names mean nothing to me) is probably due to the distraction. When you are standing in the quiet, you have nothing better to do than pay attention to your grumpy leg muscles. When you are distracted, you get past some of that discomfort without noticing it. Since many people's experience shows that we can endure well past what we think we can, it's likely that not noticing the discomfort, in and of itself, is enough to extend our ability.


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## Xue Sheng (Nov 20, 2016)

gpseymour said:


> As you point out in the blog, I think the different approaches feed different needs. I suspect the ability to stand longer in any given stance (the stance names mean nothing to me) is probably due to the distraction. When you are standing in the quiet, you have nothing better to do than pay attention to your grumpy leg muscles. When you are distracted, you get past some of that discomfort without noticing it. Since many people's experience shows that we can endure well past what we think we can, it's likely that not noticing the discomfort, in and of itself, is enough to extend our ability.



That is true, if your only goal is to stand longer. However in CIMA it is more than that, and I take standing (or stance training) from a Chinese Internal Martial Arts Point of view. Which means there is much more to this that just standing longer. And standing distracted does not help you if you are doing this for CIMA, as I do, or (I forgot to mention) as my friend was... it was a taiji class.

But if you want to build some strength and endurance standing distracted likely will help. However I am still willing to bet it does not help as much as it appears to.


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## Gerry Seymour (Nov 20, 2016)

Xue Sheng said:


> That is true, if your only goal is to stand longer. However in CIMA it is more than that, and I take standing (or stance training) from a Chinese Internal Martial Arts Point of view. Which means there is much more to this that just standing longer. And standing distracted does not help you if you are doing this for CIMA, as I do, or (I forgot to mention) as my friend was... it was a taiji class.
> 
> But if you want to build some strength and endurance standing distracted likely will help. However I am still willing to bet it does not help as much as it appears to.


Agreed. I was only pointing out the likely mechanism for the difference. When you're looking at just the physical doing, that process can be useful. However, there's more to be gained by learning to purposely ignore those discomforts and extend the standing time without the convenient distraction.


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## 23rdwave (Nov 26, 2016)

You can do zz just about anywhere. Sitting, standing, reading, watching tv, etc. As long as you have bao, you will reap the benefits.


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## marques (Nov 26, 2016)

Good subject.

From a book I read about Qigong (and written from an internal MA guy), it is better Zhan Zhuang watching TV or while looking after the kids, or only 5 minutes each time, than trying to do it only under perfect conditions (which is never, for must of us). It is not the ideal, but already _a start_.

Do you have any sources to recommend about Qigong, ZZ or related subjects? Books, authors, masters...


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## Buka (Nov 26, 2016)

I wish I wasn't leaving for work right now. I have comments and questions.
Alas, until later, aloha.


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## greytowhite (Nov 26, 2016)

marques said:


> Good subject.
> Do you have any sources to recommend about Qigong, ZZ or related subjects? Books, authors, masters..



Don't believe everything you read in books. Train with some real people.

Xing Yi Academy | Real Xing Yi


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## Xue Sheng (Nov 26, 2016)

marques said:


> Good subject.
> 
> From a book I read about Qigong (and written from an internal MA guy), it is better Zhan Zhuang watching TV or while looking after the kids, or only 5 minutes each time, than trying to do it only under perfect conditions (which is never, for must of us). It is not the ideal, but already _a start_.
> 
> Do you have any sources to recommend about Qigong, ZZ or related subjects? Books, authors, masters...



Looks for books by Lam, Kam Chuen


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## Xue Sheng (Nov 26, 2016)

23rdwave said:


> You can do zz just about anywhere. Sitting, standing, reading, watching tv, etc. As long as you have bao, you will reap the benefits.



OK, what is "Bao"?

And yes you can reap benefits, but then it depends on what you are after and how long you have been doing it.

Once read a book on Buddhism where a Buddhist master would meditate to heavy metal music, not because he liked it, but because it was distracting and he wanted to be able to meditate anyplace no matter the distraction. But it is not something recommended for a beginner


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## Xue Sheng (Nov 26, 2016)

greytowhite said:


> Don't believe everything you read in books. Train with some real people.



Training with a real person is the best, that is for sure


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## oaktree (Nov 26, 2016)

I think if you are not engaging the mind you are not internalize what is going on. Your muscles may be able to hold more as your mind is distracted but I feel if you are not engaging the mind to sink more, to internalize more to feel the tendons the bones the marrow, the ground beneath the ground, the Dan tian and so on I feel a person is missing more. I think that hot lava feeling from internal pressure felt in san ti is missing if the mind isn't internalize and watching TV, I feel ones post standing suffers. These days when practicing these sets I think about the words good kungfu is better for you then sleep.


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## drop bear (Nov 26, 2016)

I did yoga the other day and they had a cool trick for that. 

Count to ten with each breath and when your mind wanders go back to one. 

The idea isn't really to make it to ten or even to gain iron control over your thoughts. But to be mindful of when your mind is wandering off.


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## 23rdwave (Nov 27, 2016)

Xue Sheng said:


> OK, what is "Bao"?
> 
> And yes you can reap benefits, but then it depends on what you are after and how long you have been doing it.
> 
> Once read a book on Buddhism where a Buddhist master would meditate to heavy metal music, not because he liked it, but because it was distracting and he wanted to be able to meditate anyplace no matter the distraction. But it is not something recommended for a beginner



Bao is the feeling of embracing. Hollow chest, chin tucked in, light hands, heavy elbows, expanded ming men.


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## Buka (Nov 29, 2016)

You know, Xue, I had some questions, but as I went off to work, that blog post got me to thinking. Now I'm asking the questions of myself. Bastah!


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## Kurt L. (Dec 3, 2016)

Great post XS!  Let's move away from a singular measurement that would determine success/failure ("how long I can stand in zz"?) toward the ongoing process of listening and integrating what our bodies are telling us ("we can do this better"!!).


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