# Formal Salutation



## kenpofighter (Dec 3, 2007)

Does anyone know any details about the empty-handed and with weapons movements that are hidden in the Shaolin salute? The Shaolin salute consist of the first part of our formal kenpo salute. Websites or any info would be a  great help! I have done some research on my own but came up with nothing; I just know that these movements are in our salutation.


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## Andrew Green (Dec 3, 2007)

I'm gonna be honest, people can find "hidden techniques" in pretty much any motion that the human body can perform if they look hard enough. Looking for hidden techniques in a salute seems like a stretch.


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## Blindside (Dec 3, 2007)

kenpofighter said:


> Does anyone know any details about the empty-handed and with weapons movements that are hidden in the Shaolin salute? The Shaolin salute consist of the first part of our formal kenpo salute. Websites or any info would be a great help! I have done some research on my own but came up with nothing; I just know that these movements are in our salutation.


 
I could tell you that the left foot moving is a sidestep, the left hand is an inward parry and that the right hand is hitting pressure point X, and the hand moving forward is a reinforced hammerfist to the solar-plexus, but what would that accomplish?  You have now turned a motion that indicates respect into something where you are attacking a person, seems to defeat the purpose, don't you think?

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

Lamont


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## Doc (Dec 3, 2007)

Andrew Green said:


> I'm gonna be honest, people can find "hidden techniques" in pretty much any motion that the human body can perform if they look hard enough. Looking for hidden techniques in a salute seems like a stretch.



I was taught there are very significant movements and physical lessons inherent in the "salute," and "salutation." So much so that they are taught in my lineage as separate "sets" with applications.

However after all is said and done, you're correct sir.


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## Sukerkin (Dec 3, 2007)

There is caution and awareness in any 'salute', especially when you consider that in iai there are attacks/defences that begin from the bow.  However, in the 'modern' world where such greetings and leave-takings are not the methodology, I think *Blindside* has the right of it.


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## kenpofighter (Dec 5, 2007)

I don't know how many of you have ever read Mr. Lee Wedlakes book "Kenpo Karate 201", but on pg. 17 (if you have the book look for yourself) it says- 

"Striking movements are hidden in the Shaolin salutes, both empty-handed and with weapons.  By doing this salute, we show respect and that we are guarded and ready." 

I also have had Mr. Wedlake tell me the same thing when I asked him about our salutation.  Mr. Wedlake personally worked with Ed Parker and I have respect for him and his knowledge.


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## kenpofighter (Dec 5, 2007)

Oh, but thanks for the information and your ideals!  If any more, thanks for them too.


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## Doc (Dec 5, 2007)

kenpofighter said:


> Oh, but thanks for the information and your ideals!  If any more, thanks for them too.



You know it seems like you were looking more for a confirmation than a discussion. You probably should just continue asking Lee.


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## tshadowchaser (Dec 5, 2007)

As has been said already You can find techniques in any salutation but that dose not mean that the salutation was not just a show of respect when first created


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## IWishToLearn (Jan 26, 2008)

Doc said:


> I was taught there are very significant movements and physical lessons inherent in the "salute," and "salutation." So much so that they are taught in my lineage as separate "sets" with applications.
> 
> However after all is said and done, you're correct sir.




Any chance of elaborating Doc?


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## Doc (Jan 26, 2008)

tshadowchaser said:


> As has been said already You can find techniques in any salutation but that dose not mean that the salutation was not just a show of respect when first created



The American Kenpo *Salute* and Salutation are a combination of the "old and the new.&#8221; Divided into two parts (Salute and Salutation), that is interchangeable depending on the circumstances in which you choose to use them. The initial part is the salute and honors the originators of the science, the Chinese. Before the establishment of what was called "Shaolin," an open left hand resting on a clenched right fist was used as a greeting salutation or salute just before the commencement of a set or form. However the *Salutation* is not considered a part of the salute. The salute and salutation are described separately, defined separately, and may be used independent of each other, or together in different order. There were several meanings to this salute gesture: 

(1) Respect to the originator of the particular system, including all who had studied before him, with him, and presently study under him. 

(2) Respect to those who would observe the movements. 

(3) Respect to both scholars and warriors who were practitioners alike, since the left hand (open) of this salutation represented the scholar and the right hand (clenched), the man who actually executed the science.

During the period of the Shaolin in the Ch'ing Dynasty, the meaning of the gesture changed when two additional movements were added. The change was that the left hand represented the sun, the right hand the moon. 

With this change, the combination of sun and moon represented the Chinese character Ming, thus meaning "revolutionary defenders for the cause of the Ming restoration." 

The two additional movements that were added to the sun and the moon were formed by placing the back of the hands together with both palms out. The fingers at this point were in a claw-like-fashion and raised to the chest and heart. This gesture meant, "We are against foreign invasion and our hearts are for China." 

The last movement was to clench both hands and draw them to the sides of the waist. This pulling gesture meant, "By pulling and working together we can take our country back." 

The Hungs, who were secret triad societies in China, perpetuated these movements. 

Therefore the short loose translation of the salute portion is; * "Scholar and warrior united together, back to back, pulling together, to defend against the foreign intruders.&#8221; *

For those of you who have it, the execution of this can be seen in, and is explained in greater detail in the book, *"Ed Parker's Secrets of Chinese Karate."*

The first part of the entire greeting or the &#8220;Salute&#8221; portion was preserved in recognition and respect to the traditions set forth by the Chinese. 

*The Salute:*


1.	Starting from an attention stance, step forward toward 12 o&#8217;clock with your right foot into a right front twist stance, while executing a left inward slap-block to your right clenched fist raised over your right shoulder just above the height of you right ear. 

The timing is simple. The right foot moves with the hands and your hands touch when your right foot plants forward in the stance. Both hands and feet share timing in unison.

2.   From the previous position, step through with your left foot into a left forty-five degree cat stance, adjusting your feet accordingly, while you bring your left hand covering your right fist forward as if hammering with the right hand, stopping on your centerline with elbows anchored just below the height of your chin. 

The timing is similar to the first part. The left foot moves with the hands and the foot reaches its position at the same time as the hands.

3.	From the previous position, step through reverse with your left foot stepping into a right forward bow, adjusting your right foot accordingly, as you roll and place your hands back to back fingers pointed toward the floor. Your elbows will be pointed directly toward the sides. 

The timing is the left foot and the hands move together with the left foot planting with the hands getting into position. 

4.   From the previous position, point the fingers toward your stomach as the beginning of a rolling movement with the hands. Continue the movement until the fingers point upward and continue rolling the hands until the backs of the hands separate and the fingers point forward and the hands are now open and palm facing up. From here, close the hands into clenched fists and execute two pulling clenched fists to your hips, as you pull your left foot to your right, in unison.

*The Salutation:*

1.   From the previous position drop both hands open down to your side, palms facing forward with the back of your hands brushing the front of your thighs, as you step out with your left foot into a horse stance. Now from your horse stance, circle your arms and open hands out away from the body and up above the head bringing the hands together palms forward with the left and right index fingers and thumbs touching, creating a triangle shape facing forward, and pause. 

Then bring the hands down to chin height in the right clenched fist left hand covering position, pause. 

The hands now drop to a position with both palms together fingers upward and your forearms touching your body, (in a &#8220;prayer&#8221; like position) pause. 

Now turn both hands palm forward left in front of your right. Execute two outward intersecting circling seizing hands with arms completely extended, wrists bent, and drawing your left foot to your right at the same time your circling hands make contact with your outer thighs.

The first part of the greeting or &#8220;Salute&#8221; was preserved in recognition and respect to the traditions set forth by the Chinese. The concluding portion was added to tie in the heritage of the "old" with the logic of the "new" and innovative fighting science. 

There is a misconception this came from Mitose. These movements have always existed in one form or another in the Chinese, and were not new. Although Mitose did come to use the hand gestures, they were usually used independent of each other, and not in the inclusive pattern, with those of which Parker Kenpo Lineage are familiar. 

The second part of the greeting is the &#8220;Salutation&#8221; and interprets as an explanation of the original Kenpo Creed by Ed Parker that does not use the word "karate" and is interpreted as;

I come to you with empty hands; (*I am friendly and unarmed*)

I have no weapons. (Both hands are place together as they form the shape of a triangle) 

*I now cover my weapon, my fist that is my treasure, for I do not wish to use it* (Your left open hand is used to conceal your right clenched fist.)

*Now that I am being forced to use my weapon, to momentarily become an animal, I pray for forgiveness for what I may do* (Both hands are placed together as if praying.)

The Salutation ends by outwardly circling the seizing hands and arms in an outward pulling movement coming to attention. *Warding away all evil in my presence and letting nothing deter me from my goal and moral convictions*

The reasons for the Scholar/Warrior analogy are important. Within the Chinese Culture there was a very strong caste system in place. The highly educated were privileged and considered too "valuable" to fight in wars and conflict. Therefore it was the "warrior" who fought but who was directed by the "scholar" in the ways of Martial Science. That is, the warrior didn't always understand the methods of his fighting; all he knew was that it "worked." The scholars devised the methods and manner and the execution of the training and the implementation of the "fighting sciences," while the "warriors" went forth and performed as instructed.

The combination of the "warrior and scholar" in a singular person was extremely rare. Not because the scholar couldn't fight, but simply because the knowledge was so valuable, the chance could not be taken that they would be killed or injured in battle or conflict. So it is today. The truly scholarly teacher directs his students in the methods that will cause them to be successful, however because it is in fact a true science to the knowledgeable, the student may not always understand "why" things work, only that they do. Some students will come to understand more than others based on simple things as intellect and personal conviction. The scholar and warrior insure the co-existence of each other. The warrior would not exist without the directions of the scholar, and without the warrior to train; the scholar would have no martial purpose. 

There are also hidden physical techniques within the Salute and Salutation as well as indexes of information, just like in all forms and sets. The Chinese didn't use the "Bunkai Concept" in forms, choosing instead to record and store information. The Japanese Okinawan interpretation misinterpreted that every move had a corresponding physical application.

....... or it could just be a simple greeting for the unknowledgeable student aspiring to maybe become a warrior one day.


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## ChadWarner (Jan 27, 2008)

Andrew Green said:


> I'm gonna be honest, people can find "hidden techniques" in pretty much any motion that the human body can perform if they look hard enough. Looking for hidden techniques in a salute seems like a stretch.


 
No this is definitely an incorrect assumption. The salutation is nothing more than a combination.   Not any different than a Jab or right cross combination.   There is nothing hidden the art of American Kenpo there are only levels of understanding of the movements.  Nothing more nothing less.


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## Doc (Jan 27, 2008)

ChadWarner said:


> No this is definitely an incorrect assumption. The salutation is nothing more than a combination.   Not any different than a Jab or right cross combination.   There is nothing hidden the art of American Kenpo there are only levels of understanding of the movements.  Nothing more nothing less.



Yeah Chad, Mr. Parker always said, "There are no secrets, only things that YOU don't know. When rare knowledge is presented, pride soothes the ego and calls it secret." Mr. Parker also said, "Pride and ego are the anesthesia of ignorance."


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## ChadWarner (Jan 27, 2008)

Doc said:


> Yeah Chad, Mr. Parker always said, "There are no secrets, only things that YOU don't know. When rare knowledge is presented, pride soothes the ego and calls it secret." Mr. Parker also said, "Pride and ego are the anesthesia of ignorance."


 
I am coming to visit in march... almost healed now.  I see you sent mr durgan a book... where is mine?   You give mr. rainey one too?  ***shakes head and looks at shoes***


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## Doc (Jan 27, 2008)

ChadWarner said:


> I am coming to visit in march... almost healed now.  I see you sent mr durgan a book... where is mine?   You give mr. rainey one too?  ***shakes head and looks at shoes***



A mild oversight as you were temporarily down-for-the-count. That has been corrected sir.


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## ChadWarner (Jan 27, 2008)

Doc said:


> A mild oversight as you were temporarily down-for-the-count. That has been corrected sir.


 

Ah thankyou thankyou...


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