# Jujitsu Striking



## Spartan (Mar 22, 2008)

I've been told that many forms of classical jujitsu contains striking along w/ the numerous grappling techniques. 

Could some one tell me what the kicking element is like/ resembles? Also, what are the hand strikes like? 

I would greatly appreciate the insights.
Spartan


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## Darth F.Takeda (Mar 24, 2008)

There are Ryu's with very little to no strikes and others that have a large arsenal of strikes.

 In classical Jujutsu, you have a lot of Shoto strikes (edge of hand) both resembling a "karate chop" and more like a strait on or angled strike.
You have open plams, back hands, ridge hands, elbow, back of wrist and forearm strikes as well as headbuts.

Kicks are at a minimum and are almost always aimed from the waist down.
Some are ment to do great damage, lick knee stomps and groin kicks as well as kicks aimed at a downed oponents head, neck and limbs, other kicks are more to distract or overamp your enemy to set up another technique. Knee strikes are used to set up entry or when both fighters stall out.


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## Makalakumu (Mar 24, 2008)

IMHO, this is where karate systems really excell.  They incorporate all sorts of strikes that set up jujutsu moves very well.  The only problem is finding a teacher that actually knows how to deliver such strikes and incorporate the grappling components of karate.


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## Darth F.Takeda (Mar 25, 2008)

upnorthkyosa said:


> IMHO, this is where karate systems really excell. They incorporate all sorts of strikes that set up jujutsu moves very well. The only problem is finding a teacher that actually knows how to deliver such strikes and incorporate the grappling components of karate.


 
A background in Karate can help, but you do have to change some things, as you never want the atemi to impeed the waza.

But yes , my Karate/TKD/Kenpo striking background did help when I started Jujutsu.

We have people from lots of different arts in our Dojo and it is neat to see what comes out. The Boxers addapt the best out of the strikers.


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## Spartan (Mar 25, 2008)

Thanks for the enlightening guys.


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## Spartan (Mar 28, 2008)

So, am I right in assuming that it bares no resemblance to Okinawan striking?


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## MarkBarlow (Mar 28, 2008)

Spartan said:


> So, am I right in assuming that it bares no resemblance to Okinawan striking?



There's no denying the power and efficiency of Karate strikes.  The problem with attempting to transfer them to Jujutsu application is that most Karateka do not fight at the close range that Jujutsuka prefer.  Many of the basic strikes and kicks found in Okinawan and Japanese systems are less effective when the attacker is within grappling range.

It has been my experience that boxing and Muay Thai are the easiest to blend with Jujutsu waza.


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## kaizasosei (Mar 28, 2008)

> Could some one tell me what the kicking element is like/ resembles? Also, what are the hand strikes like?



what would you have them be like?  the kicks, i mean.  ?


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## Darth F.Takeda (Mar 28, 2008)

In the style I study and most of what I have seen, the kicks are allmost always kept lower than the waist ( I have seen front kicks to the stomach and to the face of a kneeling opponent). They tend to be either low/medium power flick kicks to the leg or groin to set ups for a Jujutsu waza, unbalanceing aids ( Like droppoing round kick or heel push to the back of the knee) or full on destructions of the knee and or ankle or stomps to the foot.


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## Bodhisattva (Apr 11, 2008)

Spartan said:


> I've been told that many forms of classical jujitsu contains striking along w/ the numerous grappling techniques.
> 
> Could some one tell me what the kicking element is like/ resembles? Also, what are the hand strikes like?
> 
> ...



Most Japanese Jujutsu striking looks like standard Karate striking.

Some people in Jujutsu classes, however, are learning boxing techniques as opposed to the more traditional hand-on-the-hip reverse punch.

But they are very few.

The kicking, like the punching, is very "karate snap kick" looking.


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## Bodhisattva (Apr 11, 2008)

Spartan said:


> So, am I right in assuming that it bares no resemblance to Okinawan striking?



I think, aside from a few extra open hand techniques, youw ould find it ALMOST IDENTICAL to Okinawan stylists.


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## Darth F.Takeda (Apr 13, 2008)

Bodhisattva said:


> I think, aside from a few extra open hand techniques, youw ould find it ALMOST IDENTICAL to Okinawan stylists.


 
 It would be interesting to know what Ryu's you have seen and whether Karate wazas were added later?

 Ture they use knife hands, shoto strikes, backfist, odd fist position strikes, but the mechanicas tend to be different and shorter.

 I have never seen a reverse punch as a Jujutsu waza (But I and other, who have karate backgrounds might use them.

 The strikes also tend to be shorter and do not tend to retract on contact but stick to the bodypart to unbalnace the oponent.

 I could see where the kicking can look like older Okinawan karate kicking.


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## kwaichang (Apr 16, 2008)

My studies were with "traditionalists" and we never did waza; set repetition similar to Karate Katas.  Reverse punches certainly were part of the techniques I learned; in several schools; basically jiu jitsu people like to get in close and so kicks, while used, are not a huge part of the techniques.


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## wadokai_indonesia (May 5, 2008)

I studied several streams of Jujutsu, some modern, some very traditional. In the Hakko-ryu system, the strikes are different with the Okinawans, but we do contain kicks. However, the preferred strike in the Hakko-ryu system are fingertip strikes to nerve centers. We even have a technique of attacking nerve centers using the big toe.

In the Takagi Yoshin-ryu and Wado-ryu system, many techniques are similar with Okinawan Karate and Chugoku Kenpo. But not much of high kicks. BTW, in the Wado system, one big portion of the system is Karate (so there are many high kicks), but one small portion of the system is Jujutsu, called Wado-ryu Jujutsu Kenpo, and this portion contains no high kicks at all).

The American modern Ju-Jitsu systems that I learned, however, contains many techniques which are identical to the strikes and kicks and blocks of Karate.


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## kwaichang (May 9, 2008)

Striking in the Hakko-ryu can be devastating as witnessed by Shihan (back then) Dennis Palumbo's techniques years ago.


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## Saitama Steve (May 10, 2008)

Classical Japanese jujutsu atemi-waza are rather functional, being used for specific targets, there are a good number of open hand strikes and an almost equal amount of closed hand strikes. 

Most koryu jujutsu schools will have shote-uchi, shuto-uchi, hiji-uchi, genkotsu-tsuki or seiken-tsuki, uraken and/or oroshi-uchi (bottom fist strike) and possibly a couple of other strikes depending on the school. (The names given to the atemi-waza are also dependant of the ryuha practiced.)

Usually, in standing situations, open hand strikes are utilized for the head and some joints. Closed hand strikes are used for softer targets like the nose, the stomach, the throat, the testicles, etc. A lot of atemi-waza are actually imitations of weapons usage, such as cutting or thrusting with a long or short sword. 

Also, it makes combative sense to not use closed fist strikes to the head or harder, bony parts of the body, due to the fact that if you break your hand/knuckles, you cannot effectively employ your weapon. This is a combative principle that is still used today with Military and LEO. In koryu jujutsu, one of the only closed hand strike I have seen to the head was an uraken to the nose. Everything else has been open hand strikes.

Hontai Yoshin-ryu, Takenouchi-ryu, Takagi-ryu, Tenjin Shinyo-ryu, Kiraku-ryu, Sosuishi-ryu, Shosho-ryu, make use of most of these atemi-waza among others.


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## kwaichang (May 10, 2008)

Well said.  Hakko-Ryu is very similar; at least when I learned it.


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## Darth F.Takeda (May 30, 2008)

Saitama Steve said:


> Classical Japanese jujutsu atemi-waza are rather functional, being used for specific targets, there are a good number of open hand strikes and an almost equal amount of closed hand strikes.
> 
> Most koryu jujutsu schools will have shote-uchi, shuto-uchi, hiji-uchi, genkotsu-tsuki or seiken-tsuki, uraken and/or oroshi-uchi (bottom fist strike) and possibly a couple of other strikes depending on the school. (The names given to the atemi-waza are also dependant of the ryuha practiced.)
> 
> ...


 

 What you point out about breaking potetially the hands in combat , therefore it's wise to use open hand strikes and bottom fist strikes is why I have a problem with the Modern Army Combatives program (Blends BJJ and MMA) and the west coast Levine branch of Krav Maga for self defense.
Both advocate punching, unless you condition your hands, you should not punch anything as hard or harder than your hand.


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## kwaichang (May 30, 2008)

I'm sure you meant to include closed hand strikes to the temple, nose, etc. as they are viable and not generally injurous to ones hand.


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## Darth F.Takeda (Jun 2, 2008)

kwaichang said:


> I'm sure you meant to include closed hand strikes to the temple, nose, etc. as they are viable and not generally injurous to ones hand.


 
As long as yopu mean hammerfist and back of the hand strikes, not strait up punches, then yes i should have added that. Backfist or hammerfist to the temple is a common atemi with Kotegiash, and many times the Kotegiash was the set up for the knock out blow. You are eiser to hit in the temple and go out easier with your head tilted. Diato Ryu is big on this.


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## kwaichang (Jun 2, 2008)

Kotegiash, as I was taught, is a wrist technique, so I'm a bit confused by your explanation.:idunno:


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## kwaichang (Jun 2, 2008)

Darth F.Takeda said:


> . Backfist or hammerfist to the temple is a common atemi with Kotegiash,


I totally understand this part and can see how it would be applied.



Darth F.Takeda said:


> .
> and many times the Kotegiash was the set up for the knock out blow.


It's the use of the term "setup" that confused me, as when following through with the technique the uke usually would wind up on the floor without any further strikes.


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## Darth F.Takeda (Jun 2, 2008)

kwaichang said:


> I totally understand this part and can see how it would be applied.
> 
> 
> It's the use of the term "setup" that confused me, as when following through witht the technique the uke usually would wind up on the floor without any further strikes.


 

 You take it to right before he loses balance and has to go down, so he's susspended in the side bent position for a brief moment as you hit him and put him out. It's also good when the guy bases out and pulls his arm in to stop you from doing the waza, so then you hit him.
It's flexable=)


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## kwaichang (Jun 2, 2008)

Ah, yes, ok, I understand your senario now.  Thanks.


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## Cirdan (Jun 3, 2008)

We use a lot of striking and it is very very similar to what is being taught in Wado Ryu Karate. Not really suprising, concidering the roots of Wado of course. Karate places much more importance on perfecting the stances however and far less on throws.


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