# Crashing  other WC schools!



## geezer (May 21, 2016)

...I had an interesting experience today. I _crashed_ another WC school from a different lineage  and demanded to do chi-sau with their guys to defend the honor of my lineage! Yeah, and then I got hit in the mouth. (It's the biggest target on my body as you can tell from my posts. ) But I gave as well as I took. _It was really great! _I will visit them again or invite them to visit us.

OK ... to be honest, it wasn't "crashing" at all. The guy who runs the other school has an open workout once a month, so we talked and he invited me to attend. Unfortunately I had to work that day and could only visit for about an hour. As it turns out it's a really small school ...like mine, but _way cooler_. I just sub-let at a boxing gym. These guys have their place decked out like a proper kwoon. Classy. And they were all doing chi-sau when I got there. With guys from several different lineages.

So I signed the release form and got on the floor. With each partner we started of just rolling to get a feel for what the other guy had in mind. Different people have very different ideas about what chi sau is and how to train it. In this case we were able to find common ground and work productively. 

Honestly, I really think it would be good for my guys to work with these guys once in a while, and hopefully their sifu will feel the same way. We've had very successful multi-style  Escrima/FMA gatherings in this town. Maybe we can finally do something similar with WC and raise the overall awareness of WC with the public. 

I mean we live in a huge metro area yet WC is almost unknown. It's not like we are competing for customers. We need to cooperate to have a public presence, and by mixing, our students will be exposed to more bodies, more variation, just all round, more experience.  ...If I can find the right people, really don't see the downside. Any thoughts?


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## yak sao (May 21, 2016)

Only one , I'm jealous .
Not much WC in my part of the world. There is the EBMAS group but being a rebel I'm not welcome.
Which is silly, because they're rebels too.


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## geezer (May 21, 2016)

yak sao said:


> Only one , I'm jealous .
> Not much WC in my part of the world. There is the EBMAS group but being a rebel I'm not welcome.
> Which is silly, because they're rebels too.



Absolutely. So the EBMAS guys won't do chi-sau with you? Are you sure they aren't with LT?! --EBMAS guys should be up for messing with anybody! I'm bummed.


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## Phobius (May 22, 2016)

Now I feel like crashing a school. Alas I guess I won't just yet. Have hard time finding one not linked to my sifu in this area. 

Would want it to be other lineage that holds no feelings on any matter. 
Friendlier beating that way, more learning from bruises.


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## yak sao (May 22, 2016)

geezer said:


> Absolutely. So the EBMAS guys won't do chi-sau with you? Are you sure they aren't with LT?! --EBMAS guys should be up for messing with anybody! I'm bummed.



 The funny thing is I'm the one that started that group. There was no WC in this area of any kind back when I started training so I started training WT out of town and bringing instructors in here which ultimately led to this group.


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## LFJ (May 22, 2016)

yak sao said:


> The funny thing is I'm the one that started that group. There was no WC in this area of any kind back when I started training so I started training WT out of town and bringing instructors in here which ultimately led to this group.



So you've been exiled? All the more reason to crash the place and reclaim your rightful territory!


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## yak sao (May 22, 2016)

LFJ said:


> So you've been exiled? All the more reason to crash the place and reclaim your rightful territory!



 It was a self-imposed exile but I like how you think, we may have a movie script on our hands.
 I'll play the lead of course but are you available to play a part ?


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## LFJ (May 22, 2016)

yak sao said:


> It was a self-imposed exile but I like how you think, we may have a movie script on our hands.
> I'll play the lead of course but are you available to play a part ?



I can do a pretty good parody of WT if you're considering a Kung Fu comedy à la Stephen Chow.


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## yak sao (May 22, 2016)

LFJ said:


> I can do a pretty good parody of WT if you're considering a Kung Fu comedy à la Stephen Chow.



 Again with a brilliant idea . I will see if Jackie Chan is available .


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## yak sao (May 22, 2016)

Getting back to the original topic, I've never crashed a school but I have been  able to cross hands with a few guys from other lineages from time to time over the years and I have always had a positive experience.


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## wckf92 (May 22, 2016)

yak sao said:


> Getting back to the original topic, I've never crashed a school but I have been  able to cross hands with a few guys from other lineages from time to time over the years and I have always had a positive experience.



Yeah, same here.


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## Buka (May 22, 2016)

geezer said:


> ...I had an interesting experience today. I _crashed_ another WC school from a different lineage  and demanded to do chi-sau with their guys to defend the honor of my lineage! Yeah, and then I got hit in the mouth. (It's the biggest target on my body as you can tell from my posts. ) But I gave as well as I took. _It was really great! _I will visit them again or invite them to visit us.
> 
> OK ... to be honest, it wasn't "crashing" at all. The guy who runs the other school has an open workout once a month, so we talked and he invited me to attend. Unfortunately I had to work that day and could only visit for about an hour. As it turns out it's a really small school ...like mine, but _way cooler_. I just sub-let at a boxing gym. These guys have their place decked out like a proper kwoon. Classy. And they were all doing chi-sau when I got there. With guys from several different lineages.
> 
> ...



This is really great. I don't see any downside, either. I believe it will make what all of you (your guys, their guys) do even better. And more fun. I've always loved, and benefited, from having different schools come down and teach/train/interact with everyone, and us going there as well. And from completely different styles, too.

Keep us posted how it goes, bro.


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## Eric_H (May 24, 2016)

Always a good plan to try it out with other groups. Just have to find the ones who won't endlessly talk trash about you after you've left or try and injure you while you're there.


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## Dirty Dog (May 24, 2016)

Buka said:


> This is really great. I don't see any downside, either. I believe it will make what all of you (your guys, their guys) do even better. And more fun. I've always loved, and benefited, from having different schools come down and teach/train/interact with everyone, and us going there as well. And from completely different styles, too.



I agree. We have a couple schools that come visit periodically. We match up students of about the same ability, and everybody has a good time and learns something.
We also have a group of local instructors in various arts that is specifically intended to encourage cross training. Every couple months there will be an open tourney, a 'fight night', a 'share your favorite technique night' or some such.


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## JPinAZ (May 25, 2016)

geezer said:


> ...I had an interesting experience today. I _crashed_ another WC school from a different lineage  and demanded to do chi-sau with their guys to defend the honor of my lineage! Yeah, and then I got hit in the mouth. (It's the biggest target on my body as you can tell from my posts. ) But I gave as well as I took. _It was really great! _I will visit them again or invite them to visit us.
> 
> OK ... to be honest, it wasn't "crashing" at all. The guy who runs the other school has an open workout once a month, so we talked and he invited me to attend. Unfortunately I had to work that day and could only visit for about an hour. As it turns out it's a really small school ...like mine, but _way cooler_. I just sub-let at a boxing gym. These guys have their place decked out like a proper kwoon. Classy. And they were all doing chi-sau when I got there. With guys from several different lineages.
> 
> ...



Sounds like a great time! 
Can you share who when and where? I'd be interested in going next time out and would be cool to meet you as well haha
(Can PM me if you prefer)


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## geezer (May 25, 2016)

JPinAZ said:


> Sounds like a great time!
> Can you share who when and where? I'd be interested in going next time out and would be cool to meet you as well haha
> (Can PM me if you prefer)



No need for a PM. We met at Sifu Nick Edmond's place, "Red-light Wing Chun" at 316 W. McDowell Rd. in downtown Phoenix .  Nick is of the Sam Kwok lineage. Check his webpage. He said they usually have an open practice 2-4pm on the 3rd Saturday of the month. If I'm in town, I hope to go again next week. It would be great to meet up. A friend of mine took some lessons from your Kung-fu brother Eric H. and had a lot of praise for what you guys do!


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## JPinAZ (May 26, 2016)

geezer said:


> No need for a PM. We met at Sifu Nick Edmond's place, "Red-light Wing Chun" at 316 W. McDowell Rd. in downtown Phoenix .  Nick is of the Sam Kwok lineage. Check his webpage. He said they usually have an open practice 2-4pm on the 3rd Saturday of the month. If I'm in town, I hope to go again next week. It would be great to meet up. A friend of mine took some lessons from your Kung-fu brother Eric H. and had a lot of praise for what you guys do!



Oh cool! Yeah, I've seen his ads for his club/school. That would be fun. 
I'm assuming you mean't 'next month'. Hopefully I'll remember about it then. Or just let me know if you're going to make it? 

I'm assuming you're talking about Jake. Eric had nothing but good things to say about him - and thanks for passing along the compliment! haha


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## geezer (May 26, 2016)

JPinAZ said:


> Oh cool! Yeah, I've seen his ads for his club/school. That would be fun.
> I'm assuming you mean't *'next month'*.



Right, _next month._ Sometimes my mind says one thing and my hands type something else. 

...and yes I meant Jake. I haven't heard from him in a long time. He should come too.


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## futsaowingchun (Jun 2, 2016)

geezer said:


> ...I had an interesting experience today. I _crashed_ another WC school from a different lineage  and demanded to do chi-sau with their guys to defend the honor of my lineage! Yeah, and then I got hit in the mouth. (It's the biggest target on my body as you can tell from my posts. ) But I gave as well as I took. _It was really great! _I will visit them again or invite them to visit us.
> 
> OK ... to be honest, it wasn't "crashing" at all. The guy who runs the other school has an open workout once a month, so we talked and he invited me to attend. Unfortunately I had to work that day and could only visit for about an hour. As it turns out it's a really small school ...like mine, but _way cooler_. I just sub-let at a boxing gym. These guys have their place decked out like a proper kwoon. Classy. And they were all doing chi-sau when I got there. With guys from several different lineages.
> 
> ...




Practicing with other lineages is the fastest way to get better. Just be careful of the politics and egos then it will be fine..


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## geezer (Jun 2, 2016)

futsaowingchun said:


> Practicing with other lineages is the fastest way to get better. Just be careful of the politics and egos then it will be fine..



Politics and ego in Wing Chun? who woulda thunk it?


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## futsaowingchun (Jun 2, 2016)

geezer said:


> Politics and ego in Wing Chun? who woulda thunk it?



it happens..but if you can get past it you will learn alot.


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## Phobius (Jun 3, 2016)

futsaowingchun said:


> it happens..but if you can get past it you will learn alot.



Not only politics and ego. There is the thing about time management and having a wife claiming she wants some hours of your time as well.

Otherwise I would spend a lot of time now learning what sets WSLVT apart from my own lineage. Granted of course I could cut some hours from my own training at this point but that is a very tough thing to do. I do not want to miss any training, addicted as I am to training itself.


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## futsaowingchun (Jun 14, 2016)

Phobius said:


> Not only politics and ego. There is the thing about time management and having a wife claiming she wants some hours of your time as well.
> 
> Otherwise I would spend a lot of time now learning what sets WSLVT apart from my own lineage. Granted of course I could cut some hours from my own training at this point but that is a very tough thing to do. I do not want to miss any training, addicted as I am to training itself.



What lineage do you come from? No matter what lineage all have the same basic foundation.


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## Phobius (Jun 15, 2016)

futsaowingchun said:


> What lineage do you come from? No matter what lineage all have the same basic foundation.



Well my lineage is Wing Tsun. As for foundation it was actually the nuances that have me interested. Not to switch lineage but to study if they have a different understanding of punches. After all they put a more direct focus on it.

Constant self improvement.


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## MAfreak (Jun 15, 2016)

years ago i saw a video of german wing chun or ving tsun guys that really crashed a school of the other style. just got in, smaller people there ran around like scared up chickens and the big guy who came in began to slap people there. wtf? why? because an other style? to show that the big guy is a hero at b*tch slapping? i don't get such stuff and the hating between wing chun styles. just idiotic and embarrassing and dragging the whole art through the mire.


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## geezer (Jun 15, 2016)

futsaowingchun said:


> What lineage do you come from? No matter what lineage all have the same basic foundation.



You obviously haven't been talking to _LFJ_ and _Guy B_. much lately. 




MAfreak said:


> years ago i saw a video of german wing chun or ving tsun guys that really crashed a school of the other style. just got in, smaller people there ran around like scared up chickens and the big guy who came in began to slap people there. wtf? why? because an other style? to show that the big guy is a hero at b*tch slapping? *i don't get such stuff *and the hating between wing chun styles. just idiotic and embarrassing and dragging the whole art through the mire.



Don't get it? The simple answer is _ego and money._

These attitudes were encouraged by _self-interested instructors_ trying to build a rep and make money by promoting their particular brand or flavor of WC. Their students often buy into this brainwashing and actually believe that they have the one "true and authentic" system. Then they go out on the internet and bad-mouth everybody else. And rarely somebody actually mounts a challenge, ...but that's pretty uncommon in today's world. 

Nowadays, we have other venues for actually testing your stuff, and most of the true-believer types don't fare so well there.


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## MAfreak (Jun 15, 2016)

geezer said:


> Don't get it? The simple answer is _ego and money._
> 
> These attitudes were encouraged by _self-interested instructors_ trying to build a rep and make money by promoting their particular brand or flavor of WC. Their students often buy into this brainwashing and actually believe that they have the one "true and authentic" system. Then they go out on the internet and bad-mouth everybody else. And rarely somebody actually mounts a challenge, ...but that's pretty uncommon in today's world.
> 
> Nowadays, we have other venues for actually testing your stuff, and most of the true-believer types don't fare so well there.



uhm okay, then i got it right indeed. but they won't recruit newbies by appearing that dubious.


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## ShortBridge (Jul 10, 2016)

Training is good, training with more people and different flavors is good, as long as everyone is well-intentioned.


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## JPinAZ (Aug 4, 2016)

futsaowingchun said:


> What lineage do you come from? No matter what lineage all have the same basic foundation.



This might be true if you only look at very basic, very surface level stuff. Like "all wing chun has centerline" or "All wing chun has taan/bong/fook". 
But ask 3 people from 3 different lineages to define WC centerline and you'll get 3 very vastly different answers. There have been threads on forums that have gone on months with people arguing about just this one supposedly 'basic' idea/foundation. Heck, even among those in the same lineage! 
And that's just one quick example.


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## JPinAZ (Aug 4, 2016)

geezer said:


> Right, _next month._ Sometimes my mind says one thing and my hands type something else.
> 
> ...and yes I meant Jake. I haven't heard from him in a long time. He should come too.



Hi Steve, it's been a few months. Any plans to go this month? I think that would be on the 20th?


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## geezer (Aug 4, 2016)

JPinAZ said:


> Hi Steve, it's been a few months. Any plans to go this month? I think that would be on the 20th?



Honestly, I totally forgot about it. A lot of stuff has been going on  ...my daughter just wrecked my truck in that big storm on Tuesday evening, the school year just started up (I'm a teacher) etc. etc. Thanks for the reminder. I might give it a shot. Are you planning on going?


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## Jake104 (Aug 11, 2016)

geezer said:


> Right, _next month._ Sometimes my mind says one thing and my hands type something else.
> 
> ...and yes I meant Jake. I haven't heard from him in a long time. He should come too.


Hey guys it's been a while. I'm still around and still training DTE....Technically I'm a closed door private student.. Sounds so romantic and mystical doesn't it? ..
I'll check in here more often again.. I'm always game for cross training or cross linage training, just lmk.. Steve I'll probably see you at a gathering eventually. Maybe this Saturday if I go?


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## Jake104 (Aug 11, 2016)

geezer said:


> No need for a PM. We met at Sifu Nick Edmond's place, "Red-light Wing Chun" at 316 W. McDowell Rd. in downtown Phoenix .  Nick is of the Sam Kwok lineage. Check his webpage. He said they usually have an open practice 2-4pm on the 3rd Saturday of the month. If I'm in town, I hope to go again next week. It would be great to meet up. A friend of mine took some lessons from your Kung-fu brother Eric H. and had a lot of praise for what you guys do!


No disrespect but..IDK they may not like the DTE chi sau I'm used to doing now? I'll probably get the whole "that's not wing chun" line?... But I'm open to just roll and take it easy until the b slapping starts. After all for us chi sau is actually used in combat and always in play...I enjoy rolling and working different "techniques". Just not a fan of chi sau point fighting. Id rather clinch grapple strike grapple strike throw. But I like meeting new people and sharing what I've learned in a respectful manner of course.


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## JPinAZ (May 15, 2017)

Just bringing this back up - I honestly forgot all about it. Has anyone gone since August of last year? Are they still doing it?


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## wingchun100 (May 16, 2017)

I wish the WC in my area was more like this. Unfortunately, there are only 3 WC instructors.

Two places are from the Leung Sheun lineage. The third is from Ip Ching lineage, where I originally trained. When one of the Leung Sheung teachers first moved here from Arizona, he visited the Ip Ching instructor and wanted to do chi sao with him. Ip Ching guy refused; he also refused to participate in any impromptu chi sao get-togethers that the Leung Sheung guy invited him to.


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## geezer (May 16, 2017)

JPinAZ said:


> Just bringing this back up - I honestly forgot all about it. Has anyone gone since August of last year? Are they still doing it?



Actually, I've been out of touch. You know, work and worse, a couple of rounds of colds and flu recently. Last I heard, Nick Edmonds had turned the kwoon over to his kung fu brother, Sol. I really should get back in touch to see what's going on.


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## ShortBridge (May 16, 2017)

wingchun100 said:


> I wish the WC in my area was more like this. Unfortunately, there are only 3 WC instructors.
> 
> Two places are from the Leung Sheun lineage. The third is from Ip Ching lineage, where I originally trained. When one of the Leung Sheung teachers first moved here from Arizona, he visited the Ip Ching instructor and wanted to do chi sao with him. Ip Ching guy refused; he also refused to participate in any impromptu chi sao get-togethers that the Leung Sheung guy invited him to.



We may be missing context. I love it when someone reaches out to me and I have successfully done the same, but I've also gotten "I'd like to come by and see what your students can do" or "how would you like to have my come to your class and show them how we do it?" ... from basically total strangers. 

There is a right way and a wrong way to build those communities and relationships.


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## wingchun100 (May 16, 2017)

ShortBridge said:


> We may be missing context. I love it when someone reaches out to me and I have successfully done the same, but I've also gotten "I'd like to come by and see what your students can do" or "how would you like to have my come to your class and show them how we do it?" ... from basically total strangers.
> 
> There is a right way and a wrong way to build those communities and relationships.


 
Judging from what I know about the Leung Sheung Sifu, and what I have known of the Ip Ching Sifu, I can say I honestly doubt there was no ill will intended there.


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## anerlich (May 16, 2017)

It is weird. I train Jiu Jitsu with one of Jim Fung's senior WC students, we were actually awarded our black belts on the same day. I've known him for about ten years, but we've probably spent a total of three minutes discussing Wing Chun in that time.

OTOH, I did meet up with Alex Oropeza, a Garrett Gee / HFY student when he was visiting Sydney at his instigation. We had a fascinating chat and exchange some forms and techniques down near Circular Quay. 

My first instructor used to run an annual camp in Canberra over a weekend where he'd invite everybody - there were Kung Fu guys, karate guys, JKD guys, Jiu Jitsu (mainly me), Systema. Good atmosphere, good times.


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## Kung Fu Wang (May 16, 2017)

geezer said:


> I _crashed_ another WC school from a different lineage ...


For a WC guy to crash another WC school just doesn't make sense to me. Should a WC guy try to crash another long fist school, preying mantis school, Baji school, Taiji school, ... instead?

Do I miss anything important here?


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## geezer (May 16, 2017)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> For a WC guy to crash another WC school just doesn't make sense to me. Should a WC guy try to crash another long fist school, preying mantis school, Baji school, Taiji school, ... instead?
> 
> *Do I miss anything *important here?



Yeah John, you missed the old OP (from a year ago) in which I hoped I made it clear that _I was kidding _when I said "crash"! I was actually talking about a _friendly_ visit. And in that sense, you are absolutely right. If I had a chance to visit all those other kinds of schools you named, why not? I'd really like to see some good _Baji _firsthand. Or check out the way you train your _shuai chiao_ students. That would be a privilege.


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## drop bear (May 18, 2017)

We got crashed the other night. Two very knowledgeable jitsers dropped in for a train and a roll. I think it is important to see this as an opportunity for development rather than a challenge to authority.

I mean imagine you get a guy who comes in and smokes the whole room. That means you have managed to spend time training with a quality martial artist. And you didn't even have to leave your own gym. 

I think this sort of community is what makes a martial art better. 




 

The two guys on the right there.


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## anerlich (May 19, 2017)

MAfreak said:


> uhm okay, then i got it right indeed. but they won't recruit newbies by appearing that dubious.



I dunno, it was the standard business model for decades.


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## Bino TWT (Aug 5, 2017)

I've hit every school in town. When I'm on tour, I look for schools in whatever city/state I'm in, all different lineages. 9/10 they don't give me too much ****, generally because a lot of them know of me from social media. A lot of times, I'm invited.


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