# A faster/better way to do this simple exercise?



## Dansolo (Mar 29, 2012)

Hi guys. I'm a new Wing Chun student. I am not overweight but I sit at a desk all day (I work in IT) and am out of shape. I signed up this week at a dojo but I'm busy until next week so I have several days without it, and have been looking for additional material as I like to research/learn. I came across this simple exercise: 



. I can only do this exercise for maybe five minutes before I need to sit down. My knees are not that good (they aren't trashed, but I need to strengthen them up... a lot) and this also seems to use leg muscles that I don't normally use, because I can walk for 5+ miles or ride a bicycle for nearly 20 miles without stopping other than a few short breaks to drink some water.

Is there a faster and/or easier way to work on these muscles? I am frustrated in myself for having such little ability to do such a simple exercise and would like to improve myself faster than I feel that exercise will (since I can only do it for such a short period).


Thanks!


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## clfsean (Mar 29, 2012)

Dansolo said:


> Hi guys. I'm a new Wing Chun student. I am not overweight but I sit at a desk all day (I work in IT) and am out of shape. I signed up this week at a dojo but I'm busy until next week so I have several days without it, and have been looking for additional material as I like to research/learn. I came across this simple exercise:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



No... that's why it's called "kung fu" ... hard work. Have fun.


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## mook jong man (Mar 29, 2012)

Dansolo said:


> Hi guys. I'm a new Wing Chun student. I am not overweight but I sit at a desk all day (I work in IT) and am out of shape. I signed up this week at a dojo but I'm busy until next week so I have several days without it, and have been looking for additional material as I like to research/learn. I came across this simple exercise:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



First thing you have to do is stop looking at this blokes videos , he's extremely dodgy.

The place where you will practice Wing Chun is called a Kwoon , not a Dojo , that is Japanese.
Wait until you are taught by an instructor before you start practicing anything , in the mean time you could probably start doing some bodyweight squats as a general conditioner in preparation for your upcoming class training.


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## Dansolo (Mar 29, 2012)

While I admit that there is much for me to learn about this art and martial arts in general, dojo is valid term in Chinese as well as Japanese. There are alternate Chinese spellings of it (and many alternate words, of course, given how many different dialects of Chinese that exist) e.g. daochang, but dojo is valid (maybe less common), at least according to several websites I have come across that explain the meaning of the word. The place I go teaches some Japanese stuff as well (no, they're not one of those places that claims to teach every martial art ever; I am leery of those places), and they call it a dojo, so I am just doing the same. (I don't mean to sound like I think I know everything here, just explaining my reasoning for using that term.)

If this is the only way for me to exercise these, then I will go ahead and just do this as often as I can. And don't worry; I wasn't planning to try and learn Wing Chun from this guy. Just seemed like a valid basic exercise. I've had two classes so far and find it hard to keep the stance for long, so that's why I thought this would help. I don't think it's valid to tell someone that they can only learn from an instructor. There are things that I won't be able to learn on my own and that is why I'm taking the class, but come on - we're talking about a simple leg exercise here.


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## mook jong man (Mar 29, 2012)

Dansolo said:


> While I admit that there is much for me to learn about this art and martial arts in general, dojo is valid term in Chinese as well as Japanese. There are alternate Chinese spellings of it that I do not know, but dojo is definitely valid.If this is the only way for me to exercise these, then I will go ahead and just do this as often as I can. And don't worry; I wasn't planning to try and learn Wing Chun from this guy. Just seemed like a valid basic exercise. I've had two classes so far and find it hard to keep the stance for long, so that's why I thought this would help.



Yes Dojo is a valid term , if you are learning Japanese martial arts.
But if you are training in Wing Chun which is a Chinese martial art then you are training at the Kwoon.

Anyway , if you have already had two classes then you probably would have been taught how to measure out your stance.
So just practice measuring out your stance , staying in your stance for a few minutes at a time.
If your legs start cramping up , then start moving forwards and backwards in your stance and side to side.
Be sure to measure out your stance again after every couple of steps.

It will take time for you to get used to the stance and gradually the thighs will learn to relax.


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## Dansolo (Mar 29, 2012)

Okay. I was just amazed by how difficult such a simple thing was to me, and sort of automatically assumed that other people (in general, not including the experienced martial artists that are already used to it) could do this much better than I can. I am not against putting in the effort, I was just hoping someone would suggest a way to exercise these muscles better than just taking the stance (or repeatedly taking a stance then standing up again and repeating) would. But if that's what I have to do, I will do it.

Thanks.


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## mook jong man (Mar 29, 2012)

Dansolo said:


> Okay. I was just amazed by how difficult such a simple thing was to me, and sort of automatically assumed that other people (in general, not including the experienced martial artists that are already used to it) could do this much better than I can. I am not against putting in the effort, I was just hoping someone would suggest a way to exercise these muscles better than just taking the stance (or repeatedly taking a stance then standing up again and repeating) would. But if that's what I have to do, I will do it.Thanks.


If it was easy everybody would be doing it wouldn't they?It is not so much a matter of exercising the muscles , it is more a matter of learning to relax the thighs .There is no shortcut it will only come from time spent being in your stance and your brain willing the muscles to relax.


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## Dansolo (Mar 29, 2012)

Even the most basic stuff ain't that easy, huh? It's not like I expected WC to be easy overall... Oh well. I'll get through it.


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## Domino (Mar 30, 2012)

You mentioned it in your 1st post I think, using muscles we don't usually use..... don't be put off after such a short space of time, stick with the basics always.


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## almost a ghost (Mar 30, 2012)

Dansolo said:


> Hi guys. I'm a new Wing Chun student. I am not overweight but I sit at a desk all day (I work in IT) and am out of shape.


 
I'm in IT as well since 1999. I wake up at 4:30am to go the gym twice a week and 7am on Sundays, run 5K on Saturdays, and practice Wing Chun six days a week (class and at home). Your excuse is invalid!!! :ultracool



> I am a beginner to martial arts currently training in Wing Chun at MJA Martial Arts in Spencer, MA.




I just checked your school's website. What lineage is your instructor? There are some things on there that seem a bit off.


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## Dansolo (Mar 30, 2012)

Unfortunately he doesn't give lineage. That bothered me at first, and I'm sure I will be told that I made the wrong decision by some people because of it. But it's the only WC I found within a reasonable range. From what I can tell, he does know his stuff. Guy can take his stance, have a couple of more senior students (that have been there for years) try to 'uproot' him and they are unable to do anything. He keeps control like it were no big deal. And he talks about the internal qualities of it and stuff as I hoped he would - I've read about how some people do/did not consider it quite so internal[1] and had been hoping that he would see it the internal way, and he does. A couple of the senior students are also extremely helpful to me and that played a large part of my decision to train there. I am on a three month contract, and I know some of you will say that contracts are the devil, but I don't think three months is a big deal as I would try it out for at least that long. (If it were a minimum of a year or something then I wouldn't have done it.)

What is it that seems off to you? I had been looking for some opinions before but this is the first time anyone's commented on this. (Not that I blame anyone for not seeing my intro thread or anything.) Maybe you see something that I did not in which case I would like to know. Or maybe it's something that I can straighten out having actually been there, or otherwise find the answer to.

Ultimately I'm not good enough to tell you guys whether he is mediocre, good, or great. But that would be the case anywhere I went. All I know is that he impressed me, he's nice, and the other students are nice. If I had to complain about anything, it would be the time of the classes, ~7:30-9:30 PM (schedule says 8:30 but we always run longer) and that has made it difficult for me to sleep afterwards so far. Hopefully I'll get used to it. 

By the way, I'm not exactly using being in IT as an excuse. It was just more of a stating of fact of what I am used to - nothing. I've been too damn lazy for a long time. But I wouldn't have signed up for this otherwise, as I am still in IT, so if it were an excuse, it'd still be one. No, it's more that when I learned about WC, I realized that it was THE MA that I wanted to do, and I finally got my *** out to a Kwoon* (happy? ) to start. I'm not complaining about it, either. I was just hoping that someone could point me to a better way to do this exercise. But I guess there is not.


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## Vajramusti (Mar 30, 2012)

Dansolo said:


> Hi guys. I'm a new Wing Chun student. I am not overweight but I sit at a desk all day (I work in IT) and am out of shape. I signed up this week at a dojo but I'm busy until next week so I have several days without it, and have been looking for additional material as I like to research/learn. I came across this simple exercise:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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My suggestion? I would NOT do the exercise that way. Knees going down the wrong way.. on the long run you can damage your knees.

joy chaudhuri


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## Dansolo (Mar 30, 2012)

Vajramusti said:


> -------------------------------------
> My suggestion? I would NOT do the exercise that way. Knees going down the wrong way.. on the long run you can damage your knees.
> 
> joy chaudhuri



Oof. Thanks for the warning. I'll make sure not do it with that sort of knee positioning. I was kind of wondering about that.


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## almost a ghost (Mar 30, 2012)

Dansolo said:


> Unfortunately he doesn't give lineage. That bothered me at first, and I'm sure I will be told that I made the wrong decision by some people because of it.


 
To me, that is a big red flag. I'm not trying to turn this into an lineage debate. I just believe that an instructor should have one so you know that your instructor has received formal training.



> But it's the only WC I found within a reasonable range.


 
I understand. I'm originally from the South Shore area of MA and when I moved back a few years ago for a little bit I ended up traveling to Albany to train once a month. It drove me crazy that getting anywhere was a trek LOL.



> What is it that seems off to you? I had been looking for some opinions before but this is the first time anyone's commented on this. (Not that I blame anyone for not seeing my intro thread or anything.) Maybe you see something that I did not in which case I would like to know. Or maybe it's something that I can straighten out having actually been there, or otherwise find the answer to.



I got a good laugh at this:





Even though this is not a legit dummy, he still shouldn't be training himself to have his tan sao (performed with his left hand) collapsed like that.

I hope his chi sao really doesn't look like this and the picture is taken out of context:





Then there is this demo (2:47 mark and 3:22): http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=wBQjaABvfQc#t=166s I'm not sure what he's demonstrating. Is it his take on Chi Sao or something else?


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## Dansolo (Mar 30, 2012)

Ah, damn. That's not what I was hoping to hear. Those are things that are beyond me and I have no idea how to answer them. As for the association, I don't know much about that. He hasn't asked me to join it. I am hoping that if there is a problem with his form in the pictures that it's just because he was posing for a picture, but I don't know and it seems like a difficult topic to bring up.


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## almost a ghost (Mar 30, 2012)

Dansolo said:


> I am hoping that if there is a problem with his form in the pictures that it's just because he was posing for a picture, but I don't know and it seems like a difficult topic to bring up.



That's just the thing. I don't want to comment too much on pictures taken out of context. As far as I know he could of been purposely demonstrating an incorrect posture in that small chi sao picture, but on the other hand between the demonstration in the video, the dummy pic, and not stating the lineage it's not hard to to prejudge.

I understand that it's a difficult thing to bring up in general, never mind saying "Some random dude on the internet says you are doing it wrong" LOL.


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## Dansolo (Mar 30, 2012)

almost a ghost said:


> That's just the thing. I don't want to comment too much on pictures taken out of context. As far as I know he could of been purposely demonstrating an incorrect posture in that small chi sao picture, but on the other hand between the demonstration in the video, the dummy pic, and not stating the lineage it's not hard to to prejudge.
> 
> I understand that it's a difficult thing to bring up in general, never mind saying "Some random dude on the internet says you are doing it wrong" LOL.



Indeed. Well, thanks for pointing it out. I will try not to be too discouraged over a couple of pictures, but if I can find out the story behind them in a way that doesn't sound potentially insulting/disrespectful, I will try to do so.


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## WingChunIan (Mar 31, 2012)

Dansolo said:


> I came across this simple exercise:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




DON'T DO THIS!!!! The basic stance of yee gee kim yeung ma is intended to be sat in not bounced up and down in. The legs are not designed to straighten when the knees are aducted and trying to do so will damage the knees.


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## Dansolo (Mar 31, 2012)

WingChunIan said:


> DON'T DO THIS!!!! The basic stance of yee gee kim yeung ma is intended to be sat in not bounced up and down in. The legs are not designed to straighten when the knees are aducted and trying to do so will damage the knees.



Don't worry, I've already been talked out of it. Thanks though.


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## simplewc101 (Mar 31, 2012)

for a beginner getting back into shape, with a focus on wing chun, I would recommend doing squats, pushups, lunges, skipping rope, and running.
Start off maybe doing some squats, some pushups and a little rope. then add in some running on top. do it however you want to do, but those basic exercises will get you in shape to be able to defend yourself in an intense fight for 10 -60 seconds.
I think why MJM told you to wait to learn from  your instructor is because he probably won't even recommend you do what is portrayed in the video.
Your instructor may or may not have excellent knowledge and practical use of WC (I don't know him, haven't even checked his site out, and frankly just don't want to say anything about him as I haven't been in his class before), but lots of the stuff you see on youtube is incorrect, performed by people who haven't completed their training to any level where they can be deemed competent to use it in a fight, or give you incorrect use of various hands. Youtuber beware. I watched some of that guys videos before starting my WC training, and now after learning a bit, I laugh at some of the stuff he does. That exercise does not seem useful to me at all. It sounds like you've been taught the stance and maybe a few other things, so just practice standing in your stance until your knees or whatever starts to hurt, take a break, and then stand in your stance again for a while longer. For me it took an aggregate total of many hours of standing in my stance to be able to stand comfortably for long periods of time.
As for your instructor, you should be able to tell if he's feeding you BS if you have ever been in fights before. If what he is teaching you doesn't seems to make any sense to you for a fight situation (granted you have been in altercations before) then you can ask for him to explain why it would work against an attacker. Based on his response, you will probably be able to call BS or give it the go ahead most of the time.


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## simplewc101 (Mar 31, 2012)

p.s. 
http://www.wingchun.org/txt/schools/usa/ma.html
if your school doesn't work out for you, I found these..
It looks like the closest one to you in in New Salem or Northampton.. about an hour away.. 
a WC resource that I use sometimes is wcarchives.com
not sure how other people on this forum feel about that site, but I think it has pretty accurate information.


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## Edgar (Apr 2, 2012)

Hey Dansolo,

When you're starting Wing Chun, the stance is one of the most awkward things to do and takes time to get used to. I remember my knees would hurt after standing the position too long but not after a few years of training, it just comes naturally when I need to get into stance. 

So my advice is to just continue getting into the stance and standing in that stance, no need for additional exercises.

But...if you are looking to condition your body better, I wrote two blog posts that may help.

Focuses on upper body: http://www.practicewingchun.com/wing-chun-training-body-conditioning-part-1
Focuses on lower body: http://www.practicewingchun.com/wing-chun-training-body-conditioning-part-2

They're 3 simple exercises each and they require at least one dumbbell.

Good luck with your training!

Regards,

Edgar


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## Dansolo (Apr 2, 2012)

simplewc101 said:


> p.s.
> http://www.wingchun.org/txt/schools/usa/ma.html
> if your school doesn't work out for you, I found these..
> It looks like the closest one to you in in New Salem or Northampton.. about an hour away..
> ...



Unfortunately that list is pretty outdated.

-Sifu Stanley Jue has moved from Arlington to Cambridge (he's listed for both in the link but the Arlington location is no longer an option as far as I know), which is too far from me, and I've read that he teaches a mashup of styles, and that it shouldn't be considered true Wing Chun. Can't verify personally, but even if false, Cambridge is too far from me (and so is Arlington).

-The Hudson place doesn't list WC on their site, and I just assumed that they'd stopped teaching it. I actually used to live in Hudson... it's about the same distance from both my work and my home as my current place is (just that it's off in one direction instead of the other - though it's a bit more convenient as far as highways go). I just noticed that the same instructor is still listed on the site, and WC is listed under his accomplishments, but it's not on the schedule. I don't know if he stopped teaching it or just doesn't advertise it or what.... Maybe I should look more into this.

-The Medford place is also too far from me. I'm not sure if they are still there. Jim Roselando (listed as the contact for that location) has this not-very-helpful-to-me site http://www.apricotforesthall.com/ which says he teaches at MIT, which is in Cambridge and too far from me.

-The New Salem link, is not very helpful. It even mentions that the phone number is no longer good, gives no other info, and Googling it doesn't return anything. Either way, New Salem (and Haverhill) are too far from me...

-Northampton Wing Chun is no longer there, it seems? Link talks about NC only. (Edit: Fixed this one)

-"Boston Wing Chun" gives a link for "Austin Wing Tsun" which doesn't list any non-Austin, TX locations

Thanks for looking, but unfortunately MJA is the only close enough school to me unless Rising Sun in Hudson is actually still doing WC in which case that would be about the same (in)convenience and I have no proof that that school is any better. I may look into it, though. I still know people in Hudson; not Spencer. Though one person that trains at MJA with me actually still lives in Hudson... Maybe I'll ask her if she ever checked out that place. The Boston area stuff is over an hour away in any case and could be two hours in traffic. Spencer/Hudson are like 45 minutes from home (and closer to work) without traffic being much of a bother.

As for the exercise advice from your other post (also Edgar), I will check that out, thanks. As for just staying in the stance to train the stance, I've been finding that a bit tough. It's like it's simultaneously too hard (I'm feeling it within a mere minute or two) but not challenging enough as far as what I have to do (almost nothing) that I zone out and stand up before I even realize it :/ lol. I guess I'll have to just make myself get used to doing it. But I'll try some of the other stuff as well to mix it up and also hopefully make me feel like I'm accomplishing something. I did try practicing the stance while moving forward (just stepping down my hallway while sunken, turning around, and repeating) a bit the other day and that seemed to make it easier to keep with it, but for some reason I wasn't feeling it as much. I'll probably try that way some more as well.


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## yak sao (Apr 2, 2012)

the Boston listing was for Jeff Webb. He is in Austin Tx to my knowledge, but he may still have students in that area. It's worth looking into, because that is definitely wing chun. (although they use the ving tsun spelling)


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## almost a ghost (Apr 2, 2012)

> The Hudson place doesn't list WC on their site, and I just assumed that they'd stopped teaching it. I actually used to live in Hudson... it's about the same distance from both my work and my home as my current place is (just that it's off in one direction instead of the other - though it's a bit more convenient as far as highways go). I just noticed that the same instructor is still listed on the site, and WC is listed under his accomplishments, but it's not on the schedule. I don't know if he stopped teaching it or just doesn't advertise it or what.... Maybe I should look more into this.



I'm actually going to be by that school next Saturday while visiting my cousin who lives in Hudson. If I have a chance I'll pop my head in (I'll have the wife with me, so don't hold your breath LOL).



> -The New Salem link, is not very helpful. It even mentions that the phone number is no longer good, gives no other info, and Googling it doesn't return anything. Either way, New Salem (and Haverhill) are too far from me...





> -"Boston Wing Chun" gives a link for "Austin Wing Tsun" which doesn't list any non-Austin, TX locations





yak sao said:


> the Boston listing was for Jeff Webb. He is in Austin Tx to my knowledge, but he may still have students in that area. It's worth looking into, because that is definitely wing chun. (although they use the ving tsun spelling)



The Boston listing has been gone for over a year now. They rented space from a gym. They did say that were were also affiliated with a Wing Tsun school in Salem/Peabody, which my boss's brother-in-law trained at, but as a Kempo student. Anyways, they are/were too far away from the OP.


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## blindsage (Apr 2, 2012)

simplewc101 said:


> so just practice standing in your stance until your knees or whatever starts to hurt, take a break, and then stand in your stance again for a while longer. .



If your knees hurt, stop. It should be your leg muscles that hurt. If the joints hurt you're doing something wrong. Ask your instructor for help.


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## wtxs (Apr 3, 2012)

blindsage said:


> If your knees hurt, stop. It should be your leg muscles that hurt. If the joints hurt you're doing something wrong. Ask your instructor for help.



Good observation.  To be more specific ... the quad muscles.l


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## Dansolo (Apr 3, 2012)

almost a ghost said:


> I'm actually going to be by that school next Saturday while visiting my cousin who lives in Hudson. If I have a chance I'll pop my head in (I'll have the wife with me, so don't hold your breath LOL).



Cool. I'm not necessarily unhappy where I am right now but if you do happen to stop in, I would love to hear about it. I have a couple friends interested in taking WC but who are a good 1.5 hours from my current school but only 30-40 minutes from Hudson.

Thanks for all the advice. Didn't expect so many replies here. You guys rock.

P.S. my school has a "fitness boot camp" thing going for the next 8 weeks and it is before my WC class. I will be getting there very early if I go straight from work (it's not worth driving home for half an hour and then back) so I asked and they are fine with me doing that before WC class to help get me in shape and also fill much of the extra ~2 hours between when I get there and when WC class starts (so rough). Also asked for some help on my stance yesterday and I think I've improved some and will hopefully continue to do so.


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## J W (Apr 6, 2012)

Dansolo said:


> As for just staying in the stance to train the stance, I've been finding that a bit tough. It's like it's simultaneously too hard (I'm feeling it within a mere minute or two) but *not challenging enough as far as what I have to do (almost nothing)* that I zone out and stand up before I even realize it :/ lol. I guess I'll have to just make myself get used to doing it.



Hi Dan, I'm new to Wing Chun myself, just started back in August. If you haven't already, you should be learning the Siu Nim Tau form soon. SNT is performed entirely in the yee gee kim yeung ma stance, so playing this form is a good way to train your stance. Focusing on the various arm movements in the form should hopefully keep you from "zoning out", and should also give you something to focus on other than the pain in your legs (which, as blindsage said, should hopefully be in your muscles, not your joints). 

SNT, as I understand it, trains all of your Wing Chun fundamentals, including the YGKYM stance. The more you play the form, the more you'll notice your stance improve.


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## almost a ghost (Apr 18, 2012)

Sorry, I couldn't make it over the school in Hudson in time :/

My wife did have a blast in Boston. Coming from Japan and having only lived in Sacramento and Vegas she was taken back by how beautiful MA can be at the right time of year and has informed me that we will be moving to MA when she completes Nursing School in a few years LOL


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