# jkd frustration



## sifudan (Aug 31, 2007)

My name is Dan, I have studied many arts for many years, and jkd is one of them.

It seems like the whole jkd thing has just become either
a) whatever bruce did and keep it that way
b) follow every thing inosonto does and call it jkd.

I am a huge fan of Guro Dan, but at the same time, i feel many people just worship and do whatever he does.

so as ajkd guy, if jkd is an idea, then any arts should be jkd,as long as they have 5 ways of attack, etc etc.

the so called street lethal jkd thing is so far played out as well. So many martial arts are just as good as jkd in many ways. Problem is that many asian arts are so watered down,but when you see pure arts taught in a functional way, they work etc.

many arts are very proficient in most ranges, but most do lack grapplking, counter grappling, etc.

so my frustration comes from this, i feel jkd concepts has become filled with way too many drills, i feel this is why guys like burton richardson, vunak, matt thorten, etc have changed their systems dramatically from what they are taught, yet they still use the coin JKD, because jkd is what sells. But it still seems like the concepts group have cornered the market as far as busines.

i know a few guys who once certified under the concepts group, their enrollment has gone through the roof. so i guesss certification still means alot when in business.

theres more i wanted to explain, but i have to go,
i have no bad things to say about any group, i am more talking about business here, so i hope nobody is offended.

what are your feelings as far as business, how many certifications is important, i have alot, etc, but seems like in marketing, its now who is with sayoc, who is with jkd concepts, who is certifed with this group, that group, etc. i understand that people will see whats good when they are in the door, but getting them in the door is the big part.


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## ArmorOfGod (Aug 31, 2007)

My friend, you are in (in my opinion) one of the two most political martial arts--the other one being ninjutsu.

The best thing to do is find a jkd teacher you like and just go with it.  Try to ignore what is going one outside of the school and enjoy it.

AoG


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## CheukMo (Aug 31, 2007)

I am no expert in JKD, but to me JKD is what Bruce taught his students up until he stopped teaching.  What he taught them is now called Jun Fan Jeet Kune Do to separate it from the concepts group.  It is what you see in the "Bruce Lee's Fighting Method" series of books.  It is what Ted Wong and Jerry Poteet teach.  

The JKD Concepts group has taken Bruce's philosophy of training in other arts and rejecting what isn't useful.  They are in a way practicing "their own Jeet Kune Do".  But they are (to me) not really doing that.  Dan Inosanto took the JKD that he was taught and added Eskrima to it.  Later it became a basis of JKD with most other Filipino and Indonesian arts added to it.  Look at any JKD Concepts person and they will have JKD Kali Pentjak-Silat Serrada Eskrima all listed as their foundations.  

That is fine but they use JKD, as you stated, to boost their fees.  That's the end of my exposition for now.


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## CheukMo (Aug 31, 2007)

ArmorOfGod said:


> My friend, you are in (in my opinion) one of the two most political martial arts--the other one being ninjutsu.
> AoG


 
You forgot Wing Chun....


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## arnisador (Aug 31, 2007)

CheukMo said:


> You forgot Wing Chun....



The list goes on and on!


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## joeygil (Sep 11, 2007)

Well to be fair, I think Sifu Dan has taken some of the criticism to heart, and actually done something about it.

If you go to his Academy, the "Intercepting Way" class (formerly known as Jun Fan, but no longer due to copyright reasons), is what Sigung Bruce taught during his lifetime.  No Kali, no Silat, and no Muay Thai.  We even do the Wooden Dummy forms (Jun Fan and JKD), kicking sets, and kicking forms.  The first two levels are taught by Sifu Yori Nakamura.

Sifu Dan teaches the level 3 class...and maybe a little of the other stuff sneaks in there.


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## Charleston Combat (Oct 13, 2007)

Guro Dan told me, look Bruce incorporated anything that worked for him in his system. He cross trained in many different styles and hacked away at the unessentials! If he felt it to be ineffective or that it didn't apply to his physical attributes why use it. For some JKD is a concept, never stop learning, never stop growing! This is the method that he applied in his life! The only question is should you apply it to yours? Brad


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## Spartan (Oct 13, 2007)

What do you think the reason is for these styles (JKD/Wing Chun/Ninjutsu) being so heavily politicized?


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## exile (Oct 13, 2007)

ummmm... I'd add Kenpo/Kempo to that subset as well. 

It might make more sense to ask the question the other way: which MAs exhibit relatively _little_ infighting over (i) technical content variations or (ii) lineage legitimacy questions? That's not a rhetorical question. It might well be that JKD is with the majority. It's even conceivable that there is _no_ TMA which is not riven with horrific faction fighting and sectarian conflicts. I've heard that things were really bad in the FMAs a few years back, maybe still are... and for the KMAs, just look at their bloody (if relatively brief) history, or the current state of ITF...

... hell, the supposedly `serene' MA Tai Chi has produced some of the most ferocious exchanges on MT threads. In spite of all the talk about the MAs being for defense only, there seems to be a pretty prominent tendency for MAists to go after each other... especially in _intra_system conflict...


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## still learning (Oct 15, 2007)

Hello, IF Bruce Lee was still alive? ...it would be interesting to see where JKD would be today?

Would Mr Lee...make more changes? ....with BJJ becoming popular would MR. Lee add alot of grappling today?

We will never know...and can only guess.....Aloha


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## simplicity (Oct 16, 2007)

Bruce Lee was aready into the ground game....His first & second students were grappler's.....He also was friends later on with Gene Lebell and Wally Jay, both are into the ground game, they exchanged Ideals.....I hope this has helped you...



Keep "IT" Real,
John McNabney


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## CatNap (Oct 27, 2007)

CheukMo said:


> I am no expert in JKD, but to me JKD is what Bruce taught his students up until he stopped teaching. What he taught them is now called Jun Fan Jeet Kune Do to separate it from the concepts group. It is what you see in the "Bruce Lee's Fighting Method" series of books. It is what Ted Wong and Jerry Poteet teach.


 
Well said.  I study JKD with a teacher certified by Sifu Ted Wong.  The Lee family is creating a website, trying to get it together anyway, that will list the Jun Fan teachers that are both certified and qualified to teach so that those interested in the art will have a point of reference.  It's safe to say that none of the Filipino or mixed stylists will be included.


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## Jimi (Oct 29, 2007)

I can understand some peoples frustration with JF/JKD politics. Some things are not so clear cut depending on where you sit so to speak. One misconception ( No concept pun intended)  is that Guro Dan teaches Kali, or Muay Thai or even Silat as JKD. I have never seen him say this is JKD and teach a Silat Puter Kepala takedown. Nor have I seen him teach teach a Muay Thai low round kick and call it JKD. As well he does not teach a Kali/Arnis/Escrima Panastas or Palasut technique and say Bruce taught me this. Guro Dan is quite specific about what is JF/JKD. I have seen him teach techniques from other systems not found in the Jun Fan/ Jeet Kune Do curiculum and draw a parallel to its principles and how its function can be similar to ABD or HIA Etc... He is not saying learning Silat, Kali or Muay Thai is learning JKD, he is simply defining crossover in principle & technique. I have seen that because a lot of the Inosanto trained people also like to demonstrate these other arts that others get confused thinking that what they also are capable of is being called JKD. If all someone sees is that they feel Dan is teaching anything & everything as JKD, they are not looking at  it clearly. JMHO. Jimi


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## g-bells (Oct 30, 2007)

be true to the foundation of JKD and then make it your own, it's that what Bruce was implying. learn the base then test whatever else and see what works for you. my jkd will not look like joe's jkd and so on but the base will always be the same


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## Jimi (Oct 30, 2007)

My belief is that Jun Fan Gung Fu is the base for JKD. I just have issue with those who in my opinion accuse Dan Inosanto of selling Kali, Silat etc... as JKD. I have read posts by some who claim that they attended an Inosanto seminar wanting only JKD, and when the portion of the weekend seminar covering JF/JKD was over they were upset that other arts like Kali, Silat, Shoot Wrestling, Muay Thai etc... are covered, so they complain that he sold them these other arts as JKD to rip'em off. One person in particular attended one of Dans seminars then later posted that all the Inosanto people forced him to wear a dress (a sarong ) and told him, "We must learn to fight with a knife!" and they put on jungle drums & danced around. This person was after some kind of recognition as an instructor of JKD and wanted to use his attendence at Dans seminar to pad his martial arts resume. So he began twisting the truth about what was covered and how he was forced to participate in things not JKD just to get his money and burn him. Dan sold me Kali, Silat not JKD etc... When you attend an Inosanto seminar many things are covered including JF/JKD, his seminars are an Inosanto seminar, not a Bruce Lee seminar, but many confuse Dans recognition of being an OBLS to m ean his seminars are all JKD. It is when people insist Dan is fooling people out of their money using JKD as bait to sell other arts is where some confusion comes in. I do not belief Dan is the only person who has the skill, knowledge & right to teach JF/JKD, but I can not agree with those who are saying Dan has no place teaching JF/JKD.


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## kroh (Oct 30, 2007)

Any martial art is going to be political.  The key to training is what you are trying to accomplish in the end.  If you find some good teachers and are genuine about learning to fight... train to fight and get good at it.  If you are interested in a certain martial art and want to be able to pass it on... do that.

Politics enter any martial art where there is no legitimate heir.  You just end up hearing people fighting over a legacy they all think belongs to them.  In the end ...do you want the martial art to serve you or do you want to serve the art.  If you want to serve the art... train with some one who is doing their best to keep it true to the founder.  If you want it to serve you, find some one who is on the cutting edge of the principles of the art and work with them. 

The real bonus is when you find some one who does both.

Best Regards, 
Walt


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## Shawn (Nov 1, 2007)

Guro Inosanto has made it clear that at seminars he teaches the material the seminar host requests.  He does not decide to do JKD or Kali or Silat.  People bring him in for different things, and he shows what is asked for.  If the advertisements for a seminar were misleading that would generally fall on the host, not Guro Inosanto.

Shawn


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