# Is brachial stun effective for real fight



## Robert Sterling (Jul 1, 2017)

I have read in a blog that the brachial stun can easily shut a person down with one touch, Do you guy think this technique is effective in a street fight.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Jul 1, 2017)

It can be.  Here is a video of a Karate exponent utilizing it on a pimp:






They describe it as a forearm to the chin but it looks like a strike to the neck.


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## drop bear (Jul 1, 2017)

I have never done it. I always intended to do it to someone but never really had the opportunity.


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## Juany118 (Jul 1, 2017)

As above, you just have to accurate, which can be hard in a dynamic fight.  Here is another video...


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## CB Jones (Jul 1, 2017)

Juany118 said:


> As above, you just have to accurate, which can be hard in a dynamic fight.  Here is another video...



I'm pretty sure they are faking it in that video.


These seem a little more realistic:


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## Midnight-shadow (Jul 1, 2017)

There's a big difference between something working, and being able to pull it off in a "real" fight. A back spinning kick to someone's head is more than likely going to knock that person out, but can you manage such a move when the other person is fighting back?


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## JR 137 (Jul 1, 2017)

Brian R. VanCise said:


> It can be.  Here is a video of a Karate exponent utilizing it on a pimp:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yet more proof that pimpin' ain't easy.


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## CB Jones (Jul 1, 2017)

Midnight-shadow said:


> There's a big difference between something working, and being able to pull it off in a "real" fight. A back spinning kick to someone's head is more than likely going to knock that person out, but can you manage such a move when the other person is fighting back?



True.  In person, I've only seen it work once.....used by a 2nd person coming from behind to help.

I could see it working as a preemptive strike before the fight actually starts.


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## CB Jones (Jul 1, 2017)

JR 137 said:


> Yet more proof that pimpin' ain't easy.



The karate instructor definitely kept his pimp hand strong!


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## Buka (Jul 1, 2017)

Welcome to MartialTalk, Robert.

A Brachial stun can work quite well, but it's got to be more than a "touch".


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## Martial D (Jul 1, 2017)

Robert Sterling said:


> I have read in a blog that the brachial stun can easily shut a person down with one touch, Do you guy think this technique is effective in a street fight.


Yes, it works pretty much every time. It's only useful as a first strike though, you'll never land this if the dude has his hands up.


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## JowGaWolf (Jul 1, 2017)

Brian R. VanCise said:


> It can be.  Here is a video of a Karate exponent utilizing it on a pimp:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It's a good ole fashion "Karate Chop" to the side of the neck.  The thing that I like about this video is that the Martial artist didn't wait for the guy to swing on him.  He executed his technique first which is how it should be done.  Don't wait until the chaos of flying fist begin to try it, because it would only make it more difficult to execute the technique.  To be honest the opportunity may not present itself again once fists start flying.  Martial Arts gets romanticize too much with "honorable this" and "honorable that."   He used his skill exactly the way he was supposed to.  Get straight to business and finish it.


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## Bill Mattocks (Jul 1, 2017)

JowGaWolf said:


> Martial Arts gets romanticize too much with "honorable this" and "honorable that."   He used his skill exactly the way he was supposed to.  Get straight to business and finish it.



I agree he did exactly what he should have done.  However, I don't think it violated any of the codes of karate that emphasize 'no first strike'.  I think that is a very good code, but one that is misunderstood.  It does NOT mean you have to stand there and wait for the first punch.  It means you don't instigate a fight, you don't 'start' the fight.

The presumed pimp in this case had already come charging at the victim, ready to do violence.  That much is quite clear.  In most jurisdictions in the US, that's assault, right there.  You don't have to wait (in the law or according to any karate codes) for the first punch to be thrown to defend yourself.  You have ALREADY been assaulted.  Get busy defending yourself; this is what the man did.

I get told all the time by people who do not understand the codes of karate that my style is useless because I have to wait for the first punch.  Yeah, no.  Somebody comes chest-bumpin' up in my space with their jaw flappin', I'm going to fists immediately, no delays.  Doesn't violate any codes that I know of, nor does it violate the law.

Of course, one could say that thankfully due to my training, I might just be able to handle being swung at once; I've been told I'm a pretty good counterpuncher.

_"No first strike"_ doesn't mean I have to wait to get hit.  At least not to me.  Of course, I get told all the time by various people what it is that I believe, which is amazing considering they don't know me and have zero idea what my training is.  I know you and I are of pretty similar mind, so I'm not referring to you, of course.


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## drop bear (Jul 1, 2017)

The issue you have is that it is thrown with the wrong hand.  You attack a side that they can cover. And leave open a side they can attack.

So you have to play with a lot of tricky angles to make it work.

I was not a fan of it. But have played with it and there are some places you can use it if your fight goes into a technical exchange.


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## JR 137 (Jul 1, 2017)

CB Jones said:


> The karate instructor definitely kept his pimp hand strong!


Why didn't I think of that?


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## Touch Of Death (Jul 1, 2017)

Robert Sterling said:


> I have read in a blog that the brachial stun can easily shut a person down with one touch, Do you guy think this technique is effective in a street fight.


Yes, but it isn't magic. You better be Jackie Chan, if it doesn't work.


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## JowGaWolf (Jul 1, 2017)

Affects of being punched in the neck or throat
Punched in the Throat





Chopped in the neck attempt.  Good effort bad technique? Good technique not serious effort?


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## Charlemagne (Jul 1, 2017)

Brian R. VanCise said:


>



Beat me to it.


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## Charlemagne (Jul 1, 2017)

CB Jones said:


> The karate instructor definitely kept his pimp hand strong!


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## Juany118 (Jul 1, 2017)

CB Jones said:


> I'm pretty sure they are faking it in that video.
> 
> 
> These seem a little more realistic:


If you look at the ranks it's not joking, also the way he drops. If it is a set up, dang good acting.  Long story short though it does work, but you need to use it at the right moment.  If you force it, it's going to fail.


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## Robert Sterling (Jul 2, 2017)

Thanks a lot for your comments. This technique is really cool.
Nothing is more exciting than a one strike knockout.


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## Bill Mattocks (Jul 2, 2017)

Robert Sterling said:


> Thanks a lot for your comments. This technique is really cool.
> Nothing is more exciting than a one strike knockout.



It is hard to train for obvious reasons. It is dramatic when it works. What you generally do not see are the videos where it doesn't work.


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## DanT (Jul 2, 2017)

Martial D said:


> Yes, it works pretty much every time. It's only useful as a first strike though, you'll never land this if the dude has his hands up.


It could be used in a combo tho. Maybe jab, low round kick, chop to the neck.


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## drop bear (Jul 2, 2017)

Bill Mattocks said:


> It is hard to train for obvious reasons. It is dramatic when it works. What you generally do not see are the videos where it doesn't work.


 
Why is it hard to train?


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## Touch Of Death (Jul 3, 2017)

drop bear said:


> Why is it hard to train?


Because you might hurt your partner, or get hurt when he screws it up, on you.


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## Star Dragon (Jul 3, 2017)

I suggest you practice it a lot on a BOB. It gives you an anatomically correct target that you can strike with force.


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## drop bear (Jul 3, 2017)

Touch Of Death said:


> Because you might hurt your partner, or get hurt when he screws it up, on you.



You might hurt you partner kicking him in the face. But you are still going to do it.


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## Gerry Seymour (Jul 3, 2017)

It can be effective. Just don't depend upon it. I teach folks to use it within other movements (as part of a two-handed blocking entry, for instance). If the brachial stun misses, the block is still useful.


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## Touch Of Death (Jul 3, 2017)

drop bear said:


> You might hurt you partner kicking him in the face. But you are still going to do it.


Not the same.


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## CB Jones (Jul 3, 2017)

drop bear said:


> You might hurt you partner kicking him in the face. But you are still going to do it.



Difference in kicking in the face and attacking nerve.

You damage that nerve and you lose the use of that arm.


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## Star Dragon (Jul 3, 2017)

CB Jones said:


> Difference in kicking in the face and attacking nerve.
> 
> You damage that nerve and you lose the use of that arm.



You mean, permanently? I have never heard that. Do you have any reference for it?


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## Langenschwert (Jul 3, 2017)

gpseymour said:


> It can be effective. Just don't depend upon it. I teach folks to use it within other movements (as part of a two-handed blocking entry, for instance). If the brachial stun misses, the block is still useful.



That's how we do it in combatives too. I know people who've made it work in real encounters. It's great to use as a rear attack to help a buddy, much like the scapula strike is. But lots of things work as a surprise attack. It's not likely to work once things are rocking and rolling. I suppose if he drops his hands you could land one like one would a hook or overhand right, impacting with the inside of the forearm. 

When they work, it's amazing.


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## Blindside (Jul 3, 2017)

Langenschwert said:


> That's how we do it in combatives too. I know people who've made it work in real encounters. It's great to use as a rear attack to help a buddy, much like the scapula strike is. But lots of things work as a surprise attack. It's not likely to work once things are rocking and rolling. I suppose if he drops his hands you could land one like one would a hook or overhand right, impacting with the inside of the forearm.
> 
> When they work, it's amazing.



My cousin when he was 8 "karate chopped" a kid in the playground "just like he had seen on TV" who was fighting/wrestling his friend.  KOd the kid.  My cousin thought he had killed him and then he got suspended.


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## drop bear (Jul 3, 2017)

Langenschwert said:


> That's how we do it in combatives too. I know people who've made it work in real encounters. It's great to use as a rear attack to help a buddy, much like the scapula strike is. But lots of things work as a surprise attack. It's not likely to work once things are rocking and rolling. I suppose if he drops his hands you could land one like one would a hook or overhand right, impacting with the inside of the forearm.
> 
> When they work, it's amazing.



In theory it is how you lay on a thai grapple.


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## drop bear (Jul 3, 2017)

CB Jones said:


> Difference in kicking in the face and attacking nerve.
> 
> You damage that nerve and you lose the use of that arm.



Yeah. Good job those face kicks never do any damage.


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## CB Jones (Jul 3, 2017)

drop bear said:


> Yeah. Good job those face kicks never do any damage.



But those kicks don't result in surgeries such as nerve grafts, nerve transfers or muscle transfers to restore function of the arm.

Why risk an avulsion or rupture of the nerve?


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## drop bear (Jul 3, 2017)

CB Jones said:


> But those kicks don't result in surgeries such as nerve grafts, nerve transfers or muscle transfers to restore function of the arm.
> 
> Why risk an avulsion or rupture of the nerve?



And yet that looks like that kick is targeting the brachial nerve.

Too dangerous to spar?


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## CB Jones (Jul 3, 2017)

drop bear said:


> And yet that looks like that kick is targeting the brachial nerve.
> 
> Too dangerous to spar?



What?

Would it be too dangerous to intentionally target the Brachial Plexus while sparring?  Yes.  It would be like practicing kicking someone in the spine while sparring.


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## drop bear (Jul 3, 2017)

CB Jones said:


> What?
> 
> Would it be too dangerous to intentionally target the Brachial Plexus while sparring?  Yes.  It would be like practicing kicking someone in the spine while sparring.



Only if it makes their head explode as you suggest.

Which we really only have your word for.

If I can hit a guy in the brachial plexus I will. It is a legal target.

Just for you science boffins behind the ear might be the Vegas nerve. Probably much safer.


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## Gerry Seymour (Jul 3, 2017)

drop bear said:


> In theory it is how you lay on a thai grapple.


Our clinch isn't as tight as a Thai clinch, but that's how we enter to it, too.


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## CB Jones (Jul 3, 2017)

drop bear said:


> Only if it makes their head explode as you suggest.
> 
> Which we really only have your word for.
> 
> ...



So let me get this straight.....at the gymn while training you would target your training partner's Brachial Plexus?  Why?


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## drop bear (Jul 3, 2017)

CB Jones said:


> So let me get this straight.....at the gymn while training you would target your training partner's Brachial Plexus?  Why?



Because thats fighting. I also kick punch and choke people.

I am probably targeting a lot of Latin names to be honest.


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## CB Jones (Jul 3, 2017)

drop bear said:


> Because thats fighting. I also kick punch and choke people.
> 
> I am probably targeting a lot of Latin names to be honest.



In training?  Why injure your training partner?

I understand in a real fight or full contact match.


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## drop bear (Jul 3, 2017)

CB Jones said:


> In training?  Why injure your training partner?
> 
> I understand in a real fight or full contact match.



You are so far the only person who has suggested it is more dangerous than punching someone in the face.


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## CB Jones (Jul 3, 2017)

drop bear said:


> You are so far the only person who has suggested it is more dangerous than punching someone in the face.



Probably because I injured mine in high school and know how painful it is.

I also had a friend that missed his whole sophomore season due to a pretty bad injury to his.


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## CB Jones (Jul 3, 2017)

Your arm goes limp for a few minutes, and it is an extreme burning pain that runs from your neck down your arm.

Mine was minor with the pain and soreness lasting for about 3-4 days.

My friend had problems with numbness and pain in his arm for about 6 months while the nerve healed.


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## drop bear (Jul 3, 2017)

CB Jones said:


> Probably because I injured mine in high school and know how painful it is.
> 
> I also had a friend that missed his whole sophomore season due to a pretty bad injury to his.



I have a broken hand from wrestling. And will spend 6 weeks in a cast. 

We are martial artists not the knitting circle.


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## drop bear (Jul 3, 2017)

CB Jones said:


> Your arm goes limp for a few minutes, and it is an extreme burning pain that runs from your neck down your arm.
> 
> Mine was minor with the pain and soreness lasting for about 3-4 days.
> 
> My friend had problems with numbness and pain in his arm for about 6 months while the nerve healed.



Punches in the head do that as well.
Burners and Stingers-OrthoInfo - AAOS

Yep been there as well.


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## CB Jones (Jul 3, 2017)

drop bear said:


> I have a broken hand from wrestling. And will spend 6 weeks in a cast.
> 
> We are martial artists not the knitting circle.



By all means have at each other.  Hell...I don't care its not my neck.


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## drop bear (Jul 3, 2017)

CB Jones said:


> By all means have at each other.  Hell...I don't care its not my neck.



Well if you are punching kicking or throwing you are still in danger of burner injuries.

Sorry.


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## CB Jones (Jul 3, 2017)

drop bear said:


> Well if you are punching kicking or throwing you are still in danger of burner injuries.
> 
> Sorry.



No need for sorry....again its not my neck.  Get after it.

In our training, we don't target it so we don't risk rupture or avulsion.


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## drop bear (Jul 3, 2017)

CB Jones said:


> No need for sorry....again its not my neck.  Get after it.
> 
> In our training, we don't target it so we don't risk rupture or avulsion.



Do you get your head turned forcefully to the side?


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## CB Jones (Jul 3, 2017)

drop bear said:


> Do you get your head turned forcefully to the side?



Sure.

But according to our medical staff, blunt force applied directly to the nerve has a higher risk of rupture or the nerve being torn.  So when it is taught it is done so in a very controlled manner.


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## punisher73 (Jul 4, 2017)

Here is another application from an MMA fight for those that only think things work in a sport environment.  It's a little hard to tell, but on the replay with the camera angles, you see Robbie Lawler miss his hook punch and hits Tiki right in the brachial plexus.

Robbie Lawler vs Tiki Ghosn UFC 40 Full Fight MMA Video (it happens around the 1:45 mark)


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## drop bear (Jul 4, 2017)

CB Jones said:


> Sure.
> 
> But according to our medical staff, blunt force applied directly to the nerve has a higher risk of rupture or the nerve being torn.  So when it is taught it is done so in a very controlled manner.



According to our medical staff it isn't. 

Think spinning backfists to the neck.


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## KangTsai (Jul 4, 2017)

I do know that punching somebody in the throat is pretty effective, however potentially lethal.


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## JP3 (Jul 4, 2017)

CB Jones said:


> In training?  Why injure your training partner?
> 
> I understand in a real fight or full contact match.


One reason I can think of... not to try to "injure" your training partner, but to let them know they're open for that particular thing.  As Drop said, training for contact isn't knitting.

Though... knitting needles are legal to carry on an airplane, as long as you have a ball of yarn, too. They make excellent stilettos. The knives, not the high heels.

I've caught people in pressure points, though not because I was "trying" to get one... it just happened. I aim for chin or jaw, they flinch or deflect, and you hit something else. It happens. The people react inordinately to what just hit them and you're left going... "What just happened?" Until you think about it... Oh! Neat, I suppose. Can be dangerous, but then, so is crossing the street.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Jul 4, 2017)

CB Jones said:


> Probably because I injured mine in high school and know how painful it is.
> 
> I also had a friend that missed his whole sophomore season due to a pretty bad injury to his.





CB Jones said:


> Your arm goes limp for a few minutes, and it is an extreme burning pain that runs from your neck down your arm.
> 
> Mine was minor with the pain and soreness lasting for about 3-4 days.
> 
> My friend had problems with numbness and pain in his arm for about 6 months while the nerve healed.


I had an injury that took me out for a couple months, the technique was still taught. I would still do it on others. I know a couple friends who were out for longer. If you're taking your training seriously, you're going to get injured, so it doesn't matter if you're aiming for the dangerous parts, or those dangerous areas get hit accidentally.

Difference I think is your training is just from being a LEO. Not as intense/not everyone is interested in it, especially since in your field the department can't afford those injuries so they encourage you to be more careful than you might otherwise be.


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## Balrog (Jul 7, 2017)

Robert Sterling said:


> I have read in a blog that the brachial stun can easily shut a person down with one touch, Do you guy think this technique is effective in a street fight.


It's not a touch.  

Remember Boris Karloff as Frankenstein's creature?






See the bolts on the neck?  Those are the target points.  You want to hit them hard, preferably with a ridgehand or forearm strike, and leave the strike "stuck" there for a couple of seconds.  It's called impact with time on target.

There is a really big nerve complex there and when it gets whacked, it's pretty devastating.  SWMBO weighs significantly less than I do and stands about 7 inches shorter.  She has put me down on my hands and knees more than once with a light impact just slapping with the back of her hand.  Mongo not happy camper when that happens.


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