# Whats the difference between a push and a punch?



## Towel Snapper (Sep 12, 2014)

It may be that understanding these two concepts well, could lead to being a better striker/martial artist. So I thought id ask. 

Am I right in thinking its all about speed, a push maybe heavy and strong but because theres a lack of speed it does no damage, due to their being no impact. 

But a strike is mostly about speed, the faster it is the stronger the impact and the less like a push it becomes. So the most pure strikes in martial arts like a backfist or boxing straight right will always be the fastest, and the more impure strikes like the teep/push kick in muay thai will always be the most impure strikes, because they are closest to a push ie they lack speed, and its hard to get them to as high a speed when compared with other more pure strikes.?

Speed is most important

Weight is the next most important. (although its harder to get a heavy weight up to a higher speed than with a lighter weight)

Also there must be a spectrum from the most pure strike to a push and it varies in degrees between those two ends of the spectrum, also I presume no strike a human can perform could be totally absent from a bit of push and no push could be completely absent of a bit of impact?


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## Touch Of Death (Sep 12, 2014)

Towel Snapper said:


> It may be that understanding these two concepts well, could lead to being a better striker/martial artist. So I thought id ask.
> 
> Am I right in thinking its all about speed, a push maybe heavy and strong but because theres a lack of speed it does no damage, due to their being no impact.
> 
> ...


If you can see it coming, it is, most likely, a push.


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## Towel Snapper (Sep 12, 2014)

Touch Of Death said:


> If you can see it coming, it is, most likely, a push.



Haha very funny!


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## Towel Snapper (Sep 12, 2014)

Damn I posted in the wrong section. It was meant to go into general martial arts. Doh


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## Kung Fu Wang (Sep 12, 2014)

Most of the time, a 

- "push" is used for "throwing". You push when you opponent moves back. You want a "rear end collision" here. -> ->
- "punch" is used for "striking", You punch when your opponent moves in. You want a "head on collision" here. -> <-


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## blindsage (Sep 13, 2014)

Speed matters, timing matters more.


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## RTKDCMB (Sep 13, 2014)

Impulse.


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## Towel Snapper (Sep 13, 2014)

RTKDCMB said:


> Impulse.



Please explain what impulse is and how it pertains to a punch or a push!?


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## elder999 (Sep 13, 2014)

Towel Snapper said:


> Please explain what impulse is and how it pertains to a punch or a push!?




In physics, impulse (J or Imp) is the product of Force (F) and time (t), so:

J=Ft or
J= Ns (newton-second) or (and most useful)
J= kg-m/s (kilogram-meter/second)
In simplest terms,impulse is the measurement of force-usually "large" (Mr. Schrader says, _Large? Compared to what?_) over a "short" period of time (Mr. Schrader says, _Short? Compared to what?_ :lfao: )

The impulse of a force is the change in momentum over the time that force is acting.


Like a baseball bat hitting a baseball for a good line-drive: the bat has given the ball _impulse_. 

or a golf club doing the same to a ball......

...or a proton impacting a titanium target and spalling off neutrons (*really!*)

...or a punch hitting a body?

A little, but not really. The impulse of a punch might be a way of measuring the force imparted by momentum, or speed, and is useful for the comparison of a push to a punch: a push can have the same "force' as a punch, but lack the impulse because it doesn't travel at the same speed, but-and this is the important part-the "punch" is not the ball-it's the _baseball bat._ The "ball" is the target, and impulse is imparted to the target-which brings us to the "not really part," in that the transfer of angular momentum (and I'm not going to explain that part, just trust me) isn't likely to occur on earth: when you punch people, they don't go flying, even if they're small and you're huge-though it might if they were especially small, and you were especially huge, but we don't go around punching babies, toddlers or even midgets, do we? :lfao:

Impulse _might_ be a way of measuring penetration-force imparted to a particular body part as a vector relationship: I punch you in the chest, and I impart impulse to your sternum, which can only move so much before it breaks, but if I "_push_" you in the chest with the same amount of force, there is no impulse to your chest, per se, but-ideally-I might have imparted some measure of impulse to your body, and you fall down......all of this, of course, assumes ideal conditions-no friction, and perfectly elastic collisions-there are, of course, other factors at play, but these are the broad strokes of some of the physics involved.

in short,though,  as I've said elsewhere (use the search function_) a punch *is* a push._ It's just faster._


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## Towel Snapper (Sep 13, 2014)

elder999 said:


> In physics, impulse (J or Imp) is the product of Force (F) and time (t), so:
> 
> J=Ft or
> J= Ns (newton-second) or (and most useful)
> ...



Awesome! Thankyou kind sir thats an incredible answer, you have a brilliant brain!


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## paitingman (Sep 13, 2014)

As most everyone has said, it's about speed, or the amount of time in which the force is delivered. (with space and resistance being a factor) The same muscles groups are engaged when delivering a solid push or punch.

You base from the floor, your body will find leverage as your core holds and your shoulder tightens, arm extends, and your weight will shift as force is delivered. But the key difference is the manner/speed in which the muscles deliver the force. This short, body timeline can be easily felt when placing your open hand on someone, then pushing them back. 
When this same process happens having the muscles twitch or jerk into action, you will deliver quick strike rather than a push.

However, I feel a key part of this is distance and space. The ability of the muscles to twitch and jerk is affected by resistance. When placing my hand on someone and pushing, there is immediate resistance to my motion and my hand cannot accelerate freely resulting in a push. But with some space, my hand is unencumbered and is free to accelerate and have the speed factor we all spoke of, generating shock and impact. 

(Some may disagree and speak of one inch punches and whatnot. I do not deny that shock or quick force can be delivered from short or no distance, but your ability to do so is clearly dampened)


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## RTKDCMB (Sep 14, 2014)

Towel Snapper said:


> Please explain what impulse is and how it pertains to a punch or a push!?



99;1656109]In physics, impulse (J or Imp) is the product of Force (F) and time (t), so:

J=Ft or
J= Ns (newton-second) or (and most useful)
J= kg-m/s (kilogram-meter/second)
In simplest terms,impulse is the measurement of force-usually "large" (Mr. Schrader says, _Large? Compared to what?_) over a "short" period of time (Mr. Schrader says, _Short? Compared to what?_ :lfao: )

The impulse of a force is the change in momentum over the time that force is acting.


Like a baseball bat hitting a baseball for a good line-drive: the bat has given the ball _impulse_. 

or a golf club doing the same to a ball......

...or a proton impacting a titanium target and spalling off neutrons (*really!*)

...or a punch hitting a body?

A little, but not really. The impulse of a punch might be a way of  measuring the force imparted by momentum, or speed, and is useful for  the comparison of a push to a punch: a push can have the same "force' as  a punch, but lack the impulse because it doesn't travel at the same  speed, but-and this is the important part-the "punch" is not the  ball-it's the _baseball bat._ The "ball" is the target, and  impulse is imparted to the target-which brings us to the "not really  part," in that the transfer of angular momentum (and I'm not going to  explain that part, just trust me) isn't likely to occur on earth: when  you punch people, they don't go flying, even if they're small and you're  huge-though it might if they were especially small, and you were  especially huge, but we don't go around punching babies, toddlers or  even midgets, do we? :lfao:

Impulse _might_ be a way of measuring penetration-force imparted  to a particular body part as a vector relationship: I punch you in the  chest, and I impart impulse to your sternum, which can only move so much  before it breaks, but if I "_push_" you in the chest with the  same amount of force, there is no impulse to your chest, per se,  but-ideally-I might have imparted some measure of impulse to your body,  and you fall down......all of this, of course, assumes ideal  conditions-no friction, and perfectly elastic collisions-there are, of  course, other factors at play, but these are the broad strokes of some  of the physics involved.

in short,though,  as I've said elsewhere (use the search function_) a punch *is* a push._ It's just faster._[/QUOTE]

What he said.


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