# EBMAS from Wing Tsun



## yipman_sifu (Jan 28, 2006)

Does anyone knows what exactly happened between sifu Emin Boztepe and the Wing Tsun association?, it is said that he was in an excellent relationship with the grandmaster Leung Ting, so why did he left the organization and established his EBMAS organization?.


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## RagingBull (May 26, 2021)

yipman_sifu said:


> Does anyone knows what exactly happened between sifu Emin Boztepe and the Wing Tsun association?, it is said that he was in an excellent relationship with the grandmaster Leung Ting, so why did he left the organization and established his EBMAS organization?.


Emin teaches 80s/90s  WT as was mainly tought by Kernsprecht at that time. As with everything to do with Keith R Kernsprecht(EWTO) there were arguements about money. It´s all just money making in the EWTO. 
Rene Latosa left too. 
An old thread but the Leung Ting system is not really tought as it was in europe. Kernsprecht has diluted it with his stupidity. 
My advice is look for a Ving Tsun school , Wong Shun Leung system. you will soon see that there are no hidden "secrets" and save lots of money. 
In the Leung Ting system you will train for years and only learn how to lose money.
Emin Boztepe teaches a good system too but still ..money making


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## geezer (May 26, 2021)

RagingBull said:


> Emin teaches 80s/90s  WT as was mainly tought by Kernsprecht at that time. As with everything to do with Keith R Kernsprecht(EWTO) there were arguements about money. It´s all just money making in the EWTO.
> Rene Latosa left too.
> An old thread but the Leung Ting system is not really tought as it was in europe. Kernsprecht has diluted it with his stupidity.
> My advice is look for a Ving Tsun school , Wong Shun Leung system. you will soon see that there are no hidden "secrets" and save lots of money.
> ...


Wow. Answering a 15-year-old post.

Not that you are wrong or anything. I mean, I was a direct student of Leung Ting for many years back in the 80s and 90s, and also of Rene Latosa, I took seminars with Emin, and my most recent exWT instructor trained in the EWTO including directly with our Dai Si-hing, Keith Kernspecht. One thing holds true:






Funny. "The Dark Side of the Moon" and "Enter the Dragon" were both released in the summer of '73. I was HS class of '73, but I never made the connection! 

Martial Arts instruction is all about $$$$$ ....except that I never made any in all the time I taught .


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## geezer (Jun 18, 2021)

RagingBull said:


> Emin teaches 80s/90s  WT as was mainly tought by Kernsprecht at that time. As with everything to do with Keith R Kernsprecht(EWTO) there were arguements about money. It´s all just money making in the EWTO.
> Rene Latosa left too.
> An old thread but the Leung Ting system is not really tought as it was in europe. Kernsprecht has diluted it with his stupidity.
> My advice is look for a Ving Tsun school , Wong Shun Leung system. you will soon see that there are no hidden "secrets" and save lots of money.
> ...


_"Raging_" ...here's a bit of a follow up.

When I can, I currently train with a guy in another state who was once my younger kung-fu brother directly under LT here in the States. He also trained in the EWTO when in the USAF in Germany, including some training directly under Kernspecht. He even ran LT's US branch for a while. Not a bad guy personally, and very knowledgeable about the "WT" system having trained in the US, Germany and in Hong Kong. An honest man, but 100% a hard-core capitalist who totally embraced the old EWTO money-hungry, pyramidal business model.

For example, if you are an instructor and belong to his association, the minimum fee paid to "the association" for _the right to teach_ a small group, or even just _one private student_ is $100 per month. That's "association dues" over and above any tuition or instructional fee.  That's right, you pay  $1,200 per year for the right to teach just one student and belong to the association. Otherwise, you are not permitted even to wear their shirt, rank your students, or receive any instruction (which btw is also very pricey).

Now, to be honest, I like this guy personally, but I have a "day job" and if I choose teach, I prefer working privately or in very small groups. You know, the "backyard school" model with personal, one-on-one, high quality instruction. For the privilege to do that I'm expected to pay someone in another state who I may see once a year $1, 200???

So I politely informed my old colleague that under the current association guidelines, the teaching option does not work for me.

A shame. There are some parts of the system which, if shared openly and trained against _resistance_ have value and potential. Instead, it is being treated like a cult of magical secrets, and parsed out at exorbitant rates. Unless this changes, this system will die out and not be missed.


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## yak sao (Jun 18, 2021)

geezer said:


> _"Raging_" ...here's a bit of a follow up.
> 
> When I can, I currently train with a guy in another state who was once my younger kung-fu brother directly under LT here in the States. He also trained in the EWTO when in the USAF in Germany, including some training directly under Kernspecht. He even ran LT's US branch for a while. Not a bad guy personally, and very knowledgeable about the "WT" system having trained in the US, Germany and in Hong Kong. An honest man, but 100% a hard-core capitalist who totally embraced the old EWTO money-hungry, pyramidal business model.
> 
> ...


It is changing with people like you and me and so many others who love and respect the art that Leung Ting taught but couldn't deal with the political b.s. and we are passing it along the way it should have been all along.


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## geezer (Jun 19, 2021)

yak sao said:


> It is changing with people like you and me and so many others who love and respect the art that Leung Ting taught but couldn't deal with the political b.s. and we are passing it along the way it should have been all along.


One thing I'd like to see is the basic curriculum like the "lat-sau" sets and the "chi-sau sections" _put out on You-tube_. The Long-Pole and Bart Cham-Dao as well. Open up the training for discussion. We all have variations we do that should be out in the open for debate and discussion and "testing". That's how progress is made. 

WingTsun was supposed to be logical and scientific. But science only works if you formulate hypothesis, experiment, test, then publish and share your data. Instead, in WT people are taught to do things because the _High Priest who has the only revealed truth says so!  _Doesn't sound like science to me.


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## geezer (Jun 19, 2021)

Funny thing. My experience with Rene Latosa wasn't like the WT BS at all. He encouraged me to look around, innovate, and test what I do. The more I do, the more I appreciate what I learned from him.


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