# John Danaher: "The next big evolution in Bjj is developing a unique standing position"



## Hanzou

This guy is probably the best Bjj trainer around today. He and his death squad revolutionized leg locking in Bjj, so when he says his next goal is to create a unique standing system for Bjj, I believe him. I'm just rather surprised that he's looking to create something unique instead of just taking from wrestling or Judo.

Anyway, really good video.  His insights on grappling are always really interesting.


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## Tony Dismukes

I think the process has already begun. Most experienced BJJ tournament competitors don't stand the same way they would in a Judo, wrestling, or MMA match. What Danaher is probably talking about that I haven't seen a lot of is a widespread thoroughly systemized approach to the needs of the standing portion of a BJJ match.  I have seen some good stuff from Rob Biernacki on his subscription site, but I don't know if any of it is available on free sites like YouTube. (From what I recall, he emphasized the dual threat of takedowns and guard pulls to set up the opponent for a bad position.)


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## Kung Fu Wang

1. Stand up set up -> 2. stand up throw -> 3. ground control

You have to do 1 right, to do 2 right, you will then get 3 right.

If you have good body control during stand up throw, you will have good body control on the ground.

- A inner hook can turn into a full mount.
- A front cut can turn into a side mount.
- A hip throw can turn into an arm bar.
- A single leg can turn into a leg lock.
- ...

All these has been tested on the mat over and over. In order to do the stand up set up right, many factors have to be considered.


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## JowGaWolf

Video doesn't surprise me. I've heard the same statements before in reference to BJJ.  I don't like BJJ much, but it will be interesting to see where the standup development will go.


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## drop bear

Yeah? 
It is an interesting approach by a guy who can probably pull it off. 

But he is going to have to out perform wrestlers and Judokas in stand up to validate his claim. And that will be tough. 

But as an example a flying Triangle would be a standing bjj option not seen in judo or wrestling. And so could be a bjj only(yes I am ignoring symbols at the moment) standing option.


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## Hanzou

drop bear said:


> Yeah?
> It is an interesting approach by a guy who can probably pull it off.
> 
> But he is going to have to out perform wrestlers and Judokas in stand up to validate his claim. And that will be tough.
> 
> But as an example a flying Triangle would be a standing bjj option not seen in judo or wrestling. And so could be a bjj only(yes I am ignoring symbols at the moment) standing option.



Yeah, any other person saying they're going to make a Bjj standing system that rivals Judo or Wrestling would be laughed at. However, when Danaher says something like that, you raise an eyebrow and wonder if he can actually pull it off. I mean, he's in (arguably, but not much) the best Bjj school on the planet with some of the best Bjj practitioners in the world right now (largely thanks to him), so he has the perfect test group to do this with.

If they can do what they did with Bjj leg locks and pull it off with Bjj stand up as well, it's going to be a very interesting time indeed.


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## drop bear

Hanzou said:


> Yeah, any other person saying they're going to make a Bjj standing system that rivals Judo or Wrestling would be laughed at. However, when Danaher says something like that, you raise an eyebrow and wonder if he can actually pull it off. I mean, he's in (arguably, but not much) the best Bjj school on the planet with some of the best Bjj practitioners in the world right now (largely thanks to him), so he has the perfect test group to do this with.
> 
> If they can do what they did with Bjj leg locks and pull it off with Bjj stand up as well, it's going to be a very interesting time indeed.



He is also selling a stand up system at the moment.





I threw this to one of my super grappler friends I am interested to hear his response.


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## Tony Dismukes

Hanzou said:


> Yeah, any other person saying they're going to make a Bjj standing system that rivals Judo or Wrestling would be laughed at.


In fairness, he's only talking about a standup system that works better than Judo or Wrestling for the specific context of a standard BJJ tournament, where the amplitude/impact of the throw doesn't matter, where takedowns aren't worth many points, where strikes don't exist, where guard pulling is a legitimate strategy, where penalties for passivity are rare, and the most important thing is winning positional points and avoiding submissions. You probably won't find many folks  taking this tournament BJJ meta standup strategy and winning Judo, wrestling, or MMA matches with it.


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## Hanzou

Tony Dismukes said:


> In fairness, he's only talking about a standup system that works better than Judo or Wrestling for the specific context of a standard BJJ tournament, where the amplitude/impact of the throw doesn't matter, where takedowns aren't worth many points, where strikes don't exist, where guard pulling is a legitimate strategy, where penalties for passivity are rare, and the most important thing is winning positional points and avoiding submissions. You probably won't find many folks  taking this tournament BJJ meta standup strategy and winning Judo, wrestling, or MMA matches with it.



Yeah that's what I meant. A system better for competitive Bjj than just copy-pasting wrestling and Judo techniques which is what a lot of people do now.


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## drop bear

Tony Dismukes said:


> In fairness, he's only talking about a standup system that works better than Judo or Wrestling for the specific context of a standard BJJ tournament, where the amplitude/impact of the throw doesn't matter, where takedowns aren't worth many points, where strikes don't exist, where guard pulling is a legitimate strategy, where penalties for passivity are rare, and the most important thing is winning positional points and avoiding submissions. You probably won't find many folks  taking this tournament BJJ meta standup strategy and winning Judo, wrestling, or MMA matches with it.



But still. He kind of has to out stand up gun wrestlers or otherwise what is the point?

And even if there is stylistic wastage. Wrestlers are so good that it doesn't matter that much.

Which is also my argument with bjj and self defence you probably shouldn't be rolling of mount for arm bars because if you screw it you are in trouble.

But if you successfully bar everyone who cares?


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## dunc

There are some differences between a BJJ tournament and judo or wrestling
So I think it makes sense to pick the most effective throws / takedowns that don’t expose you to differences in the context 
For example quite a few judo throws that are excellent for a judo context create a risk of being turned over into bottom position after a successful throw (which would be ippon in judo, but gets you nowhere in BJJ)


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## Hanzou

Kung Fu Wang said:


> 1. Stand up set up -> 2. stand up throw -> 3. ground control
> 
> You have to do 1 right, to do 2 right, you will then get 3 right.
> 
> If you have good body control during stand up throw, you will have good body control on the ground.
> 
> - A inner hook can turn into a full mount.
> - A front cut can turn into a side mount.
> - A hip throw can turn into an arm bar.
> - A single leg can turn into a leg lock.
> - ...
> 
> All these has been tested on the mat over and over. In order to do the stand up set up right, many factors have to be considered.


 
Or you can just Guard Pull —-> Submit, or Guard pull ——> Sweep to top ——> Submit. Why bother learning a complex throw when you can learn a simple takedown that works into the core of your style and neutralizes superior takedown specialists like Judoka and Wrestlers? And that’s the problem I’m seeing with this the more I think about it.

Reading some other thoughts on this, I gotta say, Danaher has his work cut out for him. Unlike leg locks which were a needed evolution in Bjj due to competition from Catch and Sambo in the early 2000s, there’s no real threat to Bjj that makes this push for better takedowns necessary.

If you want to get better stand up grappling, you go to wrestling period. If you don’t care about takedowns, you perfect your ground game and learn to pull Guard. You can win any elite Bjj tournament without high level takedowns, so why spend time learning an entirely new takedown system that can be Guard pulled to death? Heck, Bjj fighters are even pulling Guard in MMA.

Honestly, I think Danaher should have brought out some competitors using this system like he did with leg locks. The herd follows winners, not youtube videos and DVD sets. Maybe he has a few guys training in this now who he's preparing to unleash in the next year or so? With that said, I'll see where this goes. Danaher is a brilliant coach so I have faith that he can do what he's setting out to do. I just think the power of the Guard Pull is a bit too powerful to overcome.


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## Gerry Seymour

drop bear said:


> Yeah?
> It is an interesting approach by a guy who can probably pull it off.
> 
> But he is going to have to out perform wrestlers and Judokas in stand up to validate his claim. And that will be tough.
> 
> But as an example a flying Triangle would be a standing bjj option not seen in judo or wrestling. And so could be a bjj only(yes I am ignoring symbols at the moment) standing option.


At the very least, it will be interesting to see what he comes up with and how it fundamentally different from those approaches. If we are lucky, it will be useful beyond BJJ comp.


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## Kung Fu Wang

Hanzou said:


> so why spend time learning an entirely new takedown system that can be Guard pulled to death? Heck, Bjj fighters are even pulling Guard in MMA.


If A spends 5 years to train pull guard, and B spends 5 years to train how to counter pull guard, my money will be on B.

You can't depend on your complete system on one technique. Pretty soon people will learn how to counter it - such as body slamming.


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## dunc

Kung Fu Wang said:


> If A spends 5 years to train pull guard, and B spends 5 years to train how to counter pull guard, my money will be on B.
> 
> You can't depend on your complete system on one technique. Pretty soon people will learn how to counter it - such as body slamming.



I agree with the broader point about not relying or basing your game on a single technique

However, it’s OK to only have a relatively small number of techniques that you truly master
Eg you can prevent slamming in closed guard if you know how


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## Tony Dismukes

Hanzou said:


> Or you can just Guard Pull —-> Submit, or Guard pull ——> Sweep to top ——> Submit. Why bother learning a complex throw when you can learn a simple takedown that works into the core of your style and neutralizes superior takedown specialists like Judoka and Wrestlers? And that’s the problem I’m seeing with this the more I think about it.
> 
> Reading some other thoughts on this, I gotta say, Danaher has his work cut out for him. Unlike leg locks which were a needed evolution in Bjj due to competition from Catch and Sambo in the early 2000s, there’s no real threat to Bjj that makes this push for better takedowns necessary.
> 
> If you want to get better stand up grappling, you go to wrestling period. If you don’t care about takedowns, you perfect your ground game and learn to pull Guard. You can win any elite Bjj tournament without high level takedowns, so why spend time learning an entirely new takedown system that can be Guard pulled to death? Heck, Bjj fighters are even pulling Guard in MMA.
> 
> Honestly, I think Danaher should have brought out some competitors using this system like he did with leg locks. The herd follows winners, not youtube videos and DVD sets. Maybe he has a few guys training in this now who he's preparing to unleash in the next year or so? With that said, I'll see where this goes. Danaher is a brilliant coach so I have faith that he can do what he's setting out to do. I just think the power of the Guard Pull is a bit too powerful to overcome.


If Danaher's ideas are similar to what I saw from Biernacki, he's likely looking at using takedowns and guard pulls synergistically. Your opponent gives you energy to shut down your takedowns? Use that to set up your guard pull. Your opponent gives you energy to shut down your guard pull? Use that to set up your takedown.

(To be clear, I'm talking about guard pulling to an advantageous position, not just random butt flopping.)


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## drop bear

Kung Fu Wang said:


> If A spends 5 years to train pull guard, and B spends 5 years to train how to counter pull guard, my money will be on B.
> 
> You can't depend on your complete system on one technique. Pretty soon people will learn how to counter it - such as body slamming.



Interestingly for safety reasons danaher doesn't do jump guards. Because you can blow the other guys knees out.

Which is also a lot harder to slam.


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## Hanzou

Kung Fu Wang said:


> /gifs



Those are jump guards, I'm talking about Guard pulls.

As for which to put money on? I'd put it on the Guard puller, since high level Judoka and Wrestlers seem to utterly despise them to the point where they akin it to cheating.


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## Hanzou

Tony Dismukes said:


> If Danaher's ideas are similar to what I saw from Biernacki, he's likely looking at using takedowns and guard pulls synergistically. Your opponent gives you energy to shut down your takedowns? Use that to set up your guard pull. Your opponent gives you energy to shut down your guard pull? Use that to set up your takedown.
> 
> (To be clear, I'm talking about guard pulling to an advantageous position, not just random butt flopping.)



Interesting. Well like I said, he has his work cut out for him. Interested in seeing what he develops.


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## JowGaWolf

drop bear said:


> Interestingly for safety reasons danaher doesn't do jump guards. Because you can blow the other guys knees out.
> 
> Which is also a lot harder to slam.


I wonder if this is one of the reasons why he wants a better stance.  I know when I teach kung fu, I'm always yelling at someone for footwork and stances.  I don't like to see straight knees during sparring. Too many bad things can happen with straight knees.  Knees should always be bent just enough where they won't hyper extend.   I've watched a few videos where some of those guys had their legs broken  because of straight legs.


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## Kung Fu Wang

Hanzou said:


> I'm talking about Guard pulls.


If A trains "guard pull" for 5 years, and B trains "under hook leg spring" for 5 years. When B does "under hook leg spring" on A,

- A's left arm is controlled by B's both hand.
- A's right hand cannot reach to B.
- A is forced into a bow-arrow stance. This make A's backward pull impossible.

What chance will A have at that moment. Can A still apply "guard pull"?

The under hook is easy to obtain. A hook punch followed by an arm extending can do the job. The leg spring followed by a knee strike on the face can be deadly. Can one use "guard pull" to solve all this issues?

I don't believe "guard pull" can be a master key that open all locks. One still must know how to deal with under hook, over hook, head lock, waist wrap, bear hug, ... In other words, one still must master the stand up wrestling skill.


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## Hanzou

Kung Fu Wang said:


> If A trains "guard pull" for 5 years, and B trains "under hook leg spring" for 5 years. When B does "under hook leg spring" on A,
> 
> - A's left arm is controlled by B's both hand.
> - A's right hand cannot reach to B.
> - A is forced into a bow-arrow stance. This make A's backward pull impossible.
> 
> What chance will A have at that moment. Can A still apply "guard pull"?
> 
> The under hook is easy to obtain. A hook punch followed by an arm extending can do the job. The leg spring followed by a knee strike on the face can be deadly. Can one use "guard pull" to solve all this issues?
> 
> I don't believe "guard pull" can be a master key that open all locks. One still must know how to deal with under hook, over hook, head lock, waist wrap, bear hug, ... In other words, one still must master the stand up wrestling skill.



I think we’re talking different contexts here. I’m talking about BJJ competition. You seem to be talking in general terms. In BJJ comp, there’s simply not enough benefit to learn a ton of takedowns. You’re simply awarded more for groundwork, so getting to the floor is more important than executing an amazing throw. This is why guard pulling is king, because it’s simply more effective (and easier) to pull someone into guard than to attempt to execute a highly technical throw. In fact, if your goal is competition, you’d actually be harming your game by learning a lot of highly technical throws instead of focusing on your groundwork.

I also think you have a very narrow view of what a guard pull is. There’s multiple types of guard pull that leads into everything from closed guard to 50/50 to half guard, and they each have different types of entries. If you’re dealing with a wrestler you can do anything from a standard pull to an Imanari roll.

This video shows the various types of guard pulling in MMA;


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## drop bear




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## Gerry Seymour

Hanzou said:


> I think we’re talking different contexts here. I’m talking about BJJ competition. You seem to be talking in general terms. In BJJ comp, there’s simply not enough benefit to learn a ton of takedowns. You’re simply awarded more for groundwork, so getting to the floor is more important than executing an amazing throw. This is why guard pulling is king, because it’s simply more effective (and easier) to pull someone into guard than to attempt to execute a highly technical throw. In fact, if your goal is competition, you’d actually be harming your game by learning a lot of highly technical throws instead of focusing on your groundwork.
> 
> I also think you have a very narrow view of what a guard pull is. There’s multiple types of guard pull that leads into everything from closed guard to 50/50 to half guard, and they each have different types of entries. If you’re dealing with a wrestler you can do anything from a standard pull to an Imanari roll.
> 
> This video shows the various types of guard pulling in MMA;


Interesting. Some of those I handn't thought of as "pulling guard" - they look like a kind of single-leg (by the way I define it in my mind), but I see how they're using it to pass through guard.


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## Gerry Seymour

drop bear said:


>


I really like his breakdown of the exposures, and how he addresses what's specific to BJJ rules (which are, IMO, more "real life" friendly than Judo rules, in general).


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## Hanzou

drop bear said:


>



He makes some very strong points here. In order for this to take hold, he's going to have to show it in the competition sphere. If he produces players who are winning because of these concepts, he'll change the game (again).


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## Acronym

Hanzou said:


> Yeah that's what I meant. A system better for competitive Bjj than just copy-pasting wrestling and Judo techniques which is what a lot of people do now.



BJJ *is* judo. Judo was called Jiujitsu in Brazil when Maeda taught the Brazilians. And that's the name it bears today

Everything is copy and pasted and at most modified.


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## Tony Dismukes

Here’s a newer video showing the sort of BJJ tournament specific skills Danaher is talking about:


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## Gerry Seymour

Acronym said:


> BJJ *is* judo. Judo was called Jiujitsu in Brazil when Maeda taught the Brazilians. And that's the name it bears today
> 
> Everything is copy and pasted and at most modified.


Not quite true. It was at BJJ’s origin, but it has developed beyond that AND has other influences.


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## Kung Fu Wang

Tony Dismukes said:


> Here’s a newer video showing the sort of BJJ tournament specific skills Danaher is talking about:


In that clip, why does he allow his opponent's left arm to warp around his waist in the 1st place? He should release his right hand hold and over hook his opponent's left arm elbow joint, force his opponent to step in, and ...

When a counter works on you, sometime it's your fault because you allow your opponent's hand to control a certain part of your body (such as a waist wrap).


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## Hanzou

Acronym said:


> BJJ *is* judo. Judo was called Jiujitsu in Brazil when Maeda taught the Brazilians. And that's the name it bears today
> 
> Everything is copy and pasted and at most modified.



Judo was called Kano Jiujitsu when Maeda left Japan in 1904. 

As for everything being copy-pasted and modified, how's Judo leg locking going these days?


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## Hanzou

Kung Fu Wang said:


> In that clip, why does he allow his opponent's left arm to warp around his waist in the 1st place? He should release his right hand hold and over hook his opponent's left arm elbow joint, force his opponent to step in, and ...
> 
> When a counter works on you, sometime it's your fault because you allow your opponent's hand to control a certain part of your body (such as a waist wrap).



That's easy to say from an armchair. When you're in the moment attempting to get a throw off, you can often overlook the danger you've put yourself into. This is especially true in a competitive environment where that successful throw can win the match for you. Hell, you might even feel his arm wrap around your waist and the counter incoming, and you'll ignore it completely because you're totally committed to getting that throw off.


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## Gerry Seymour

Hanzou said:


> That's easy to say from an armchair. When you're in the moment attempting to get a throw off, you can often overlook the danger you've put yourself into. This is especially true in a competitive environment where that successful throw can win the match for you. Hell, you might even feel his arm wrap around your waist and the counter incoming, and you'll ignore it completely because you're totally committed to getting that throw off.


True in pretty much every endeavor. Top-level Judo players throw each other using openings both know how to avoid giving and throws both know how to counter. Same goes for soccer/football players, and everyone else. In the moment, it's impossible to analyze every single variable.


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## Acronym

Hanzou said:


> Judo was called Kano Jiujitsu when Maeda left Japan in 1904.
> 
> As for everything being copy-pasted and modified, how's Judo leg locking going these days?



Judo has leg locks. Check old footage of Kimura.


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## Hanzou

Acronym said:


> Judo has leg locks. Check old footage of Kimura.



How about some modern footage of a Judoka doing leg locks? Kimura has been dead for almost 30 years.


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## Kung Fu Wang

Hanzou said:


> When you're in the moment attempting to get a throw off, you can often overlook the danger you've put yourself into.


The concern is if your opponent's arm can reach to your waist, the faster that you move in, the easier that your opponent can take you down.

So what should be the solution here?






You can also guide your opponent's left arm into your right arm. This way, his left arm won't be able to wrap around your waist.

The more effort that you may spend on dealing with your opponent's free arm, the less chance that his free arm can wrap around your waist.

The question is what percentage of your effort that you are willing to spend on dealing with your opponent's free arm/arms?


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## Hanzou

Kung Fu Wang said:


> The concern is if your opponent's arm can reach to your waist, the faster that you move in, the easier that your opponent can take you down.
> 
> So what should be the solution here?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can also guide your opponent's left arm into your right arm. This way, his left arm won't be able to wrap around your waist.
> 
> The more effort that you may spend on dealing with your opponent's free arm, the less chance that his free arm can wrap around your waist.
> 
> The question is what percentage of your effort that you are willing to spend on dealing with your opponent's free arm/arms?



These counters are known. It isn’t like this is some new information or revelation that no one trains for. Again, what happens is that you simply get caught and your opponent counters you and ruins your day. This is why I personally don’t do hip throws because they have a very small screw up window, and if you screw up, you will get countered.


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## dunc

Kung Fu Wang said:


> The concern is if your opponent's arm can reach to your waist, the faster that you move in, the easier that your opponent can take you down.
> 
> So what should be the solution here?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can also guide your opponent's left arm into your right arm. This way, his left arm won't be able to wrap around your waist.
> 
> The more effort that you may spend on dealing with your opponent's free arm, the less chance that his free arm can wrap around your waist.
> 
> The question is what percentage of your effort that you are willing to spend on dealing with your opponent's free arm/arms?



The problem with the 1st demonstration is that the attacker is trying to do a hip throw without unbalancing his opponent
Anyone can counter that kind of throw if they are standing on balance and waiting for the hips and feet to enter in

And I agree that being on the outside of the arm is a good place to be


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## Acronym

Hanzou said:


> How about some modern footage of a Judoka doing leg locks? Kimura has been dead for almost 30 years.



Leg locks werent originally in BJJ competitions either, which is more evidence that they copy and pasted from Kosen Judo.


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## Gerry Seymour

Acronym said:


> Leg locks werent originally in BJJ competitions either, which is more evidence that they copy and pasted from Kosen Judo.


If you understood the history of BJJ and the approach of the practitioners, you wouldn't believe that nonsense. Its original primary influence (likely not the only initial influence) was Judo. It's far from a "copy and paste".


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## Acronym

gpseymour said:


> If you understood the history of BJJ and the approach of the practitioners, you wouldn't believe that nonsense. Its original primary influence (likely not the only initial influence) was Judo. It's far from a "copy and paste".



This is copy and pasted Judo


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## Gerry Seymour

Acronym said:


> This is copy and pasted Judo


Based on....?


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## dunc

The BJJ curriculum started out as one and the same as judo - that’s not a subject of debate
But it has evolved differently for quite a while and should rightly be considered as a separate style now


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## Acronym

dunc said:


> The BJJ curriculum started out as one and the same as judo - that’s not a subject of debate
> But it has evolved differently for quite a while and should rightly be considered as a separate style now



Kosen Judo existed before BJJ, although tied tog Japan and with win by pinning. This obviously makes a difference but plenty of Kosen Judokas have submitted BJJ guys.


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## Hanzou

Acronym said:


> Leg locks werent originally in BJJ competitions either, which is more evidence that they copy and pasted from Kosen Judo.



Uh, yes they were. They were looked down upon, but they were still practiced because BJJ had a huge rivalry with Luta Livre for decades, and those guys used leg locks constantly. This is how Royce Gracie was able to counter Ken Shamrock's leg lock attempt at the start of their match in UFC. Royce saw it coming a mile away because Bjj practitioners had fought leg-lockers for years.

In modern BJJ, competitive leg locks largely come from either Catch, 10th Planet or Danher's leg lock system. I don't know where you're getting the notion that Bjj copy pasted from Kosen Judo because the rule sets are entirely different.

Like for example, there's no leg locks allowed in Kosen Judo.


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## Hanzou

Acronym said:


> This is copy and pasted Judo



That video is from 60 years ago. Do you really think that Bjj hasn't changed in 60 years? FYI, Bjj has changed dramatically in the last 10 years.


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## dunc

Acronym said:


> Kosen Judo existed before BJJ, although tied tog Japan and with win by pinning. This obviously makes a difference but plenty of Kosen Judokas have submitted BJJ guys.



Sure
No one is suggesting that BJJ, Kodokan Judo and Kosen Judo are not related or that BJJ isn’t derived from Judo


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## Hanzou

dunc said:


> Sure
> No one is suggesting that BJJ, Kodokan Judo and Kosen Judo are not related and BJJ is derived from Judo



You can go to most Bjj academies and there’s a picture of Jigoro Kano right next to Helio Gracie.


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## Gerry Seymour

Acronym said:


> Kosen Judo existed before BJJ, although tied tog Japan and with win by pinning. This obviously makes a difference but plenty of Kosen Judokas have submitted BJJ guys.


I'm not sure how that relates to the post you quoted.


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## callMeHawkEye

gpseymour said:


> If you understood the history of BJJ and the approach of the practitioners, you wouldn't believe that nonsense. Its original primary influence (likely not the only initial influence) was Judo. It's far from a "copy and paste".


Oh stop the griping. BJJ was made by bunch of Mayan Aliens [emoji89] [emoji1787] 

Sent from my SM-T860 using Tapatalk


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## drop bear

callMeHawkEye said:


> Oh stop the griping. BJJ was made by bunch of Mayan Aliens [emoji89] [emoji1787]
> 
> Sent from my SM-T860 using Tapatalk



So let me guess. You are an Eddie Bravo guy?


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## OliviaParcker

I believe that BJ and self defense is the best of the sport. You can contact most Bjj academies and study


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## OliviaParcker

why did you put ads in my post ????


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## Monkey Turned Wolf

OliviaParcker said:


> why did you put ads in my post ????


I believe recently there has been an ad at the bottom of each page, below the last posters message. So when someone else comments (like this) it should move to the bottom and your post will be ad-free.


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