# BIGGER than you.. BADDER! than you



## Jenna (Jun 19, 2006)

TO my eyes it is a plain fact.. I am bigger than you.. bigger AND stronger AND more physically experienced for what I am about to do.. Further.. I am plainly BADDER than you as I am PREPARED having NO great conscience nor sense of moral. And as I am going about my business with you I DO NOT CARE if I hurt you maim you or if you die at my hands.. as has happened previously and left no lasting mark on my body or mind..

Q: Are you willing to accept that I .. someone both bigger AND badder than you.. that I can exist? 
Q: If I exist.. what advantage can you POSSIBLY have over me?
Q: If you have advantage over me then how will you use it? as I am telling you right here I want to take something from you that I do not think you want to give.. What are you gonna do bout it?

~~

Hello all my sharp-edged friends  nope any of you who know me will know I ain't bigger nor badder than any of y'all bad boys and gals but I pose these questions of any of you who may be looking in after reading some pretty nasty stuff in the paper this morning.. there are some mean folk out there doing just whatever comes to their perniciously perverted minds and I wonder.. *are YOU ready for bigger and badder than you*? I am very interested to know your approach to the bigger and badder... thank you.

Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna


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## MJS (Jun 19, 2006)

Great thread Jenna!!:ultracool 

I'll go ahead and bite first.



> Q: Are you willing to accept that I .. someone both bigger AND badder than you.. that I can exist?


 
Absolutely!  This is something that any that is involved in the arts should realize.  If they're not seeing this, then IMHO, they'll be in for a very rude awakening.



> Q: If I exist.. what advantage can you POSSIBLY have over me?


 
I think that we should all realize that just because we train, that training will not turn us into Supermen and Superwomen.  Our training is only as good as we make it.  Are we gearing our training for the worst case scenario?  I think that we should always strive to make our training as alive as possible.  

However, our opponent, unless they're from another planet is going to have the same features...2 arms, 2 legs and a head...as we are.  I think that taking advantage of the best places to hit would be a good start.  If the person is that big and strong, I think that an overwhelming offense on our part would be the best way to go.




> Q: If you have advantage over me then how will you use it? as I am telling you right here I want to take something from you that I do not think you want to give.. What are you gonna do bout it?


 
As I said above, I think that an aggressive approach on our part would be a good way to go.  Being taller than someone would allow us to use our reach to our advantage.  IMO, I think its best to use our strengths and take advantage of their weak spots.

Mike


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## Makalakumu (Jun 19, 2006)

Jenna said:
			
		

> Q: Are you willing to accept that I .. someone both bigger AND badder than you.. that I can exist?


 
Yes, to a certain extent.  I wouldn't let the fact that this person exists inhibit me from trying to be all I could be.  



> Q: If I exist.. what advantage can you POSSIBLY have over me?


 
Anything, but I attempt to make them as small as possible by striving to my peak.



> Q: If you have advantage over me then how will you use it? as I am telling you right here I want to take something from you that I do not think you want to give.. What are you gonna do bout it?


 
Use my advantage to prevent you from taking what is not yours.  

Jenna - IMHO this thread addresses exactly why one would weight train, even if they are an aikidoka.  People are not born equal, but this does not mean that you can't work to minimize those inequalities by striving towards your own excellence.


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## Cryozombie (Jun 19, 2006)

Jenna said:
			
		

> Q: Are you willing to accept that I .. someone both bigger AND badder than you.. that I can exist?
> Q: If I exist.. what advantage can you POSSIBLY have over me?



Oh, you absolutley exisit, but I realize that about you...

The advantage, is that while you think you are the Big bad wolf, and I am a lowly sheep... the truth is, I am a wolf too, hidden in the flock in sheep's clothing, and your arrogance as a wolf keeps you from seeing my teeth and claws until I use them on you...


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## Bigshadow (Jun 19, 2006)

Jenna said:
			
		

> Q: Are you willing to accept that I .. someone both bigger AND badder than you.. that I can exist?


Oh certainly.  There are MANY.



			
				Jenna said:
			
		

> Q: If I exist.. what advantage can you POSSIBLY have over me?


Patience, kindness, and the element of surprise.



			
				Jenna said:
			
		

> Q: If you have advantage over me then how will you use it? as I am telling you right here I want to take something from you that I do not think you want to give.. What are you gonna do bout it?


Wait for the attack. It will come, your arrogance and over-confidence tells me that it will happen, how it will happen and from what direction, I only have to patiently wait. Then do what I must do to protect what I value most as the situation unfolds. This way whatever vicious thing I do will come as a complete surprise, damaging your will, spirit, and body.


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## ChrisWTK (Jun 19, 2006)

Q: Are you willing to accept that I .. someone both bigger AND badder than you.. that I can exist? 

Most Defiently. I'm small and not aggressive so this can apply to almost everyone else.

Q: If I exist.. what advantage can you POSSIBLY have over me?

I'm smart and can think quickly, I can analyze the situation, my oppenent and I can utilize my surroundings to my advantage.

Q: If you have advantage over me then how will you use it? as I am telling you right here I want to take something from you that I do not think you want to give.. What are you gonna do bout it?

Do whatever it takes to get away and stay alive. I wouldn't even try any hand to hand combat with someone like that unless forced to. I'm assuming if he's not close enough to hit me then I have room to run away. I would use mostly jujitsus to get out of a grab, possibly then I might use a kick or something to take out the knees so I can have an advantage when running away.


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## Jenna (Jun 19, 2006)

Wow y'all! thank you for these excellent replies and I am truly grateful that you have given this thought.. and I will say I asked this question particularly because I see sometimes a little complacency in some of my contemporaries and have said so.. that their subconscious tells them .. there is NOBODY bigger or badder than I.. I am fourth degree this and master that and it is an attitude (even unspoken and subconscious) that I am concerned when I see manifested even in training scenarios or casual talk and I do absolutely what I can even if it is only to plant a seed to expunge it especially from those I care bout.. and anyway

yes you are all correct to realise that size and strength and how BAD a person is by extrapolation of how far they are prepared to go.. well you are correct to realise that this is not the last word in what will happen in any confrontation.. EVERYONE has some advantage.. absolutely and without exception.. *Mike* said that aggressors have "2 arms, 2 legs and a head...as we are" and thus to quote Arnie.. If it bleeds.. we can kill it!  *Upnorth* would gain an upperhand via skill (and you are naughty my friend for mentioning THAT other thread but it is ok I hear what you are saying) and *TechnoPunk* I like this.. using the aggressors arrogance and the fact that they totally missed that their "victim" is actually a wolf at the door themselves.. yes I like that a lot kudos! .. and *Bigshadow* going for the intellectual approach and this is very clever my friend I was hoping someone would pick up that we do not always have to meet force with equal and opposite and possibly this is where I might be AT also though claiming no intellectual superiority over any aggressor (he could likewise be that wolf at the door begging me to ASSUME) but yes I like kindness towards an aggressor.. this is a VERY enlightened view my friend and though many would say naive.. foolish even.. this is like an extra blade for you when perhaps your other blades are all broke off at the hilt in the flesh of your aggressor... and *Chris*.. yes small and not aggressive well I can relate to that maybe and yes as I say there is not always the compunction to meet an aggressor head on and in fact for the likes of you and I this is maybe not the wisest of notions.. better to look around a little for the gate rather than try to bust through the wall.. But it is good to maybe feel you can bust through the wall if ya get fed up seeking the gate.. that too!! ha!

Yes thank you all for your careful replies.. I shall go away and consider them.. ahh knowledge I am greedy for it.. 

Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna


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## Dark (Jun 19, 2006)

Jenna said:
			
		

> Q: Are you willing to accept that I .. someone both bigger AND badder than you.. that I can exist?


 
So your bigger than me...



			
				Jenna said:
			
		

> Q: If I exist.. what advantage can you POSSIBLY have over me?


 
Aside for the obivious training and all, there is the fact that I refuse to see you as below me to boost my own inaiquate ego, I also know the streets and was raised on the exact same "battle field" you are attempting to fight me on. I know every dirty trick you've learned and probily several you don't and I use everyone of them...



			
				Jenna said:
			
		

> Q: If you have advantage over me then how will you use it? as I am telling you right here I want to take something from you that I do not think you want to give.. What are you gonna do bout it?


 
I'm too stupid to give and walk away, pain has no effect on what will fight for. Simply put thee one thing I won't part with, my girl friend and my sense of honor, I will die to keep safe. Can you say the same?

I figure I'd offer a different approach, (1) the concept of command presence; maintaining control regardless of situation and (2) the fact I've been there and done that from both sides of the fence. Forget martial arts I'm here for the street fight menality...


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## Jenna (Jun 19, 2006)

Dark said:
			
		

> I'm too stupid to give and walk away, pain has no effect on what will fight for. Simply put thee one thing I won't part with, my girl friend and my sense of honor, I will die to keep safe. Can you say the same?
> 
> I figure I'd offer a different approach, (1) the concept of command presence; maintaining control regardless of situation and (2) the fact I've been there and done that from both sides of the fence. Forget martial arts I'm here for the street fight menality...


Hey mister Dark  wow! thank you for this reply which interests me especially since you are as you say "here for the street fight mentality".. can I ask the VERY FIRST question to you AGAIN in light of what you posted.. Thank you

Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna

Imagine... hypothetically speaking..

I am saying I am BIGGER than you and I am BADDER than you... do you acknowledege my existence as someone who is both physically bigger and stronger AND also has less concern for himself and concern for others that you have... do you acknowledge that (somewhere) I exist?​


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## Xue Sheng (Jun 19, 2006)

Jenna said:
			
		

> Q: Are you willing to accept that I .. someone both bigger AND badder than you.. that I can exist?



There is always going to be someone, bigger, badder, faster, tougher, stronger, more skilled, smarter, luckier, etc.

But on any given day you to can be that person, it is really not that big a deal. 



			
				Jenna said:
			
		

> Q: If I exist.. what advantage can you POSSIBLY have over me?



It does not matter to me that you are. 



			
				Jenna said:
			
		

> Q: If you have advantage over me then how will you use it? as I am telling you right here I want to take something from you that I do not think you want to give.. What are you gonna do bout it?



You are already counting on &#8220;my fear&#8221; to be to your advantage, and I am not afraid of you.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Jun 19, 2006)

Technopunk said:
			
		

> Oh, you absolutley exisit, but I realize that about you...
> 
> The advantage, is that while you think you are the Big bad wolf, and I am a lowly sheep... the truth is, I am a wolf too, hidden in the flock in sheep's clothing, and your arrogance as a wolf keeps you from seeing my teeth and claws until I use them on you...


 
Nice and a very appropriate way to view yourself! (wolf or sheep dog)
Use their arrogance and confidence against them then surprise the tables will be turned.

Brian R. VanCise
www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com


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## stickarts (Jun 19, 2006)

Some of my greatest victories have come against those that were bigger and badder than me but their downfall was that they underestimated me and I decided to go in with equal or greater intensity after learning their weaknesses.

Yes, that is the scariest situation to me, it is not a specific technique: it is someone who does not care. That is sad, but also a force to be reckoned with and a reality.


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## Flying Crane (Jun 19, 2006)

You will never even notice me to think of me as a target because I slip by without attracting attention.  But because of your blustering, I notice you, and I know that I need to tread carefully when you are around because you are dangerous and unpredictable in your stupidity.  But in your arrogance, you fail to realize that you should also tread carefully around me.  

While I will always back away if you try to confront me, if you push me into a corner I will become the mother bear protecting her cubs.  You may win, but you will be mauled and your body will no longer work the way it use to.


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## Dark (Jun 19, 2006)

Jenna said:
			
		

> Hey mister Dark  wow! thank you for this reply which interests me especially since you are as you say "here for the street fight mentality".. can I ask the VERY FIRST question to you AGAIN in light of what you posted.. Thank you


 
Streetfighting is about two things pain and fear; if I cause enough pain and do enough damage you will fear me. Does that mean I'll win, probiblt not but I will make you think twice next time and hopefully question yourself as to whether you really won or if we both just lost...


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## michaeledward (Jun 19, 2006)

Jenna said:
			
		

> TO my eyes it is a plain fact.. I am bigger than you.. bigger AND stronger AND more physically experienced for what I am about to do.. Further.. I am plainly BADDER than you as I am PREPARED having NO great conscience nor sense of moral. And as I am going about my business with you I DO NOT CARE if I hurt you maim you or if you die at my hands.. as has happened previously and left no lasting mark on my body or mind..
> 
> Q: Are you willing to accept that I .. someone both bigger AND badder than you.. that I can exist?
> Q: If I exist.. what advantage can you POSSIBLY have over me?
> ...


 
The suppositions in this thread are difficult for me to take at face value. 

I believe most people see most other people more like themselves, than unlike themselves. Whether we admit it or not, we project ourselves on to others. Because I am not likely to take action that has 'no consequence' against you, it is difficult for me to believe that you, as big as you are, are able to take an action that has no consequence. This subjective view of the world is one of the things that keeps the world as safe as it is. 

I will give credence to the argument, society today is especially geared toward fanning the flames of fear ... whether on the Nightly News, or the Lifetime Channel ... we are all told, every day to be afraid.

I will also posit that there are a very few, rare number of people, who indeed have no morality, and no conscience. My biggest advantange in dealing with those individuals is how few in number they are. It is quite likely I will pass through my entire life without every intersecting with such a sociopath ... and if I did intersect with this person, it will probably be outside of any incident of sociopathic behavior. 

So, for your first two questions ... the possibility of a threat occurance happening is so low, that it is almost insignificant ... but, let us assume that I do intersect on your third question with a threat. 

Because I train, and am in moderately competent physical condition, I believe I am able to 'run away'. 

Let us continue your thought experiment further ... and presuppose that I can not, effectively, remove myself from the threat. I have learned a few items that might, possibily, provide me a way to distract the threat long enough to effectively remove myself. 

Pain is a powerful motivator. Pain prevents other thoughts from processing correctly. So, in the event of being in an inescapable threat situation, I would work on two things 1) preventing you from inflicting pain on me, and 2) inflicting pain on you.

Any action that I can take, beyond a 'short, sharp, shock', is strictly bonus. 

There are probably some more thoughts running around my brain, but for the moment, I think these are pretty accurate.


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## Cryozombie (Jun 19, 2006)

michaeledward said:
			
		

> I believe most people see most other people more like themselves, than unlike themselves. Whether we admit it or not, we project ourselves on to others.


 
I dunno man...

In traffic... YOU know how to drive, the other guy is an idiot... (but when you screw up its an honest mistake) You know what you are doing, your boss/coworker/competitor is stupid... the rules are for the other guy, you are the exception (ask anyone who worked retail returns about this one)

I think most people have more arrogance, and believe themselves above others, as opposed to considering themselves on the same field... And I think this is the mindset anyone with an agressive attitude is likley to have.

Iv'e heard these guys in bars talking too... "So I kicked the crap out of the dude, and the little **** called the cops... what a (insert reference to cat here) now I gotta go to court"

I'd take that to mean that the guy really felt his actions were justfied, and the other guy was wrong for using the system...


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## Jenna (Jun 19, 2006)

Technopunk said:
			
		

> I think most people have more arrogance, and believe themselves above others, as opposed to considering themselves on the same field... And I think this is the mindset anyone with an agressive attitude is likley to have.


Hey Technopunk my observant friend  absolutely! I could not agree more with you.. I can only guess you and I have had similar experiences and I think it is likely our perception of the "norm" can only ever be tempered by OUR OWN experiences. I would truly like to believe everyone had an egalitarian mindset but alas... not in my little world...

Thanks for this!

Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna


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## Jenna (Jun 19, 2006)

Dark said:
			
		

> Streetfighting is about two things pain and fear; if I cause enough pain and do enough damage you will fear me. Does that mean I'll win, probiblt not but I will make you think twice next time and hopefully question yourself as to whether you really won or if we both just lost...


Thank you for your follow-up  so am I paraphrasing you correctly when I say there is possibly SOMEONE out there who has the makings of you mister Dark?  If so.. what would you do if you met them under "unfavourable" circumstances? ie. they want to take something from you which you do not want to give??  DO you stand and fight even though you admit to yourself they are likely bigger AND badder than you? What would you do in this situation?

Thank you


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## Jenna (Jun 19, 2006)

Xue Sheng said:
			
		

> You are already counting on my fear to be to your advantage, and I am not afraid of you.


Hello mister Xue Sheng  thank you for your valuable insight and if I might ask a further question on this remark above.. 

What happens if I actually have no mind or care whatsoever for how you view me? What happens if I just KNOW I am bigger and badder than you and you ..or your family has.. something I WANT. You say you are not afraid of me.. ok. But what are you gonna do as I come get what it is I want..?​I appreciate the hypothetical nature of this question but.. thank you in advance... 

Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna


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## Jenna (Jun 19, 2006)

Flying Crane said:
			
		

> But in your arrogance, you fail to realize that you should also tread carefully around me.


Some say I am arrogant. Maybe I am. Maybe I am arrogant because I have never been beaten though I have plenty lacerations on my knuckles forehead shins elbows.. all scars.. all lovely memories .. Yeah I spose it IS a thrill to me to put somones lights out.. To put YOUR lights out..  Yep this is maybe where my arrogance comes from.. But oh! let me listen.. a little voice from WAY down there.. ahh it is you.. you are not trying to tell me YOU are the one gonna take my arrogance away?

~~~

Thanks Michael for your reply  I like your thinking! a LOT! But then I am always a sucker for wit and subtlety when it comes to the arts  I appreciate your reply.. this dude is really askin for it, ha!

Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna


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## matt.m (Jun 19, 2006)

Jenna said:
			
		

> TO my eyes it is a plain fact.. I am bigger than you.. bigger AND stronger AND more physically experienced for what I am about to do.. Further.. I am plainly BADDER than you as I am PREPARED having NO great conscience nor sense of moral. And as I am going about my business with you I DO NOT CARE if I hurt you maim you or if you die at my hands.. as has happened previously and left no lasting mark on my body or mind..
> 
> Q: Are you willing to accept that I .. someone both bigger AND badder than you.. that I can exist?
> Q: If I exist.. what advantage can you POSSIBLY have over me?
> ...


 
I had this realization while in Haiti in 1994.  I realized that there were things bigger and badder than me.  However, I am a patient person.  An opening or opportunity will always present itself in a fight.  I don't care who you are, you can be beat.  Remember "If it bleeds you can kill it"  

So, for example:  Once during riot control my squad and I had gotten into a little more than we could chew.  Because of the rules of engagement we could not just shoot someone.  So knowing that we were outnumbered too be too one sided I did authorize the use tear gas.  That was enough disruption that I was able to use hapkido cane and other subduing techniques at that time.

My team and I had won because we used the CS gas.  Sorry, it is fair.  I realize again that there are things more powerful than I.  I realize I am patient, an opportunity will present itself.  If you try and take something that I want to keep, you will have to render me unconscious or kill me to get it.  Period end of story.  I am not a hard a**.  I am merely speaking the truth.


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## Xue Sheng (Jun 19, 2006)

Jenna said:
			
		

> Hello mister Xue Sheng  thank you for your valuable insight and if I might ask a further question on this remark above..
> 
> What happens if I actually have no mind or care whatsoever for how you view me? What happens if I just KNOW I am bigger and badder than you and you ..or your family has.. something I WANT. You say you are not afraid of me.. ok. But what are you gonna do as I come get what it is I want..?
> ​I appreciate the hypothetical nature of this question but.. thank you in advance...
> ...


 
Avoid you if possible; stop you, if I have to and if I can, my response is the same either way. 

Your feelings of being bigger or badder than me, matters not to me, I do what I have to do that is all. I do not fear you, whether that matters to you is not the issue. 

You see I do not see you as bigger or badder, I see you as an aggressor, that&#8217;s all, bigger and badder do not matter, and the terms are meaningless. 

You can be smaller and equally as dangerous or equally as ineffective.

Any fight, any confrontation is a very serious matter and never to be taken lightly. Bigger, badder no difference


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## Flying Crane (Jun 19, 2006)

Jenna said:
			
		

> But oh! let me listen.. a little voice from WAY down there.. ahh it is you.. you are not trying to tell me YOU are the one gonna take my arrogance away?
> 
> Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
> Jenna


 
I don't really care about your arrogance outside of its entertainment value.  Am I looking to take you out?  nope.  but if you go after me and force my hand, you will pay heavily for whatever you take.  that's all.  

But that assumes you even notice me in the first place.


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## Jenna (Jun 19, 2006)

Xue Sheng said:
			
		

> Avoid you if possible; stop you, if I have to and if I can, my response is the same either way.
> 
> Your feelings of being bigger or badder than me, matters not to me, I do what I have to do that is all. I do not fear you, whether that matters to you is not the issue.
> 
> ...


Well.. we are straight.. we do not care for the feelings of the other. But big deal.. Cos know what.. I am STILL coming to take what I want from you.. voluntarily or forceably dont matter to me.. Either way I am gonna get what I want unless you think you can stop me .. Fact is.. I have not even decided what it is I want yet.. I am just cruisin the area and seen you there and thought I could get something from you.. Are you tellin me you are gonna run away from me? Well if you do maybe you got other people here ? I dunno maybe I will look around.. maybe you got friends ..maybe they got something to offer me..

~~~~

Thanks again mister Xue Sheng..  you are a sport if nothing else and I am appreciative of that and am glad you do not find it difficult dealing in hypotheticals... 

Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna


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## Jenna (Jun 19, 2006)

Flying Crane said:
			
		

> I don't really care about your arrogance outside of its entertainment value. Am I looking to take you out? nope. but if you go after me and force my hand, you will pay heavily for whatever you take. that's all.
> 
> But that assumes you even notice me in the first place.


Yeah I noticed you alright. I noticed you got some fancy jewellery there.. Omega.. Yep I like that watch.. Im keen on wrist-watches see... I notice these things just walking down the street even though you never noticed me noticing.. well.. Ill be James Bond with that watch you got on your arm.. Ill take that for starters double-O-seven... just soon as you turn this next corner here.. Wonder what else you got? Money? Cellphone? What else? Yeah you dont look much to me.. I think Ill just come take what you got.. See I KNOW I am bigger and badder. I know I am never beaten.. So what could YOU possibly do? Make me pay heavily you say? How you gon do that to someone as big and bad as me?? You gonna face me down? Cos I never paid for anything in currency OR hurt... What could YOU POSSIBLY do to me? I hope you are ready...

~~

Thanks Michael 
Jenna


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## terryl965 (Jun 19, 2006)

Q: Are you willing to accept that I .. someone both bigger AND badder than you.. that I can exist? 

Yes there are poeple bigger and badder than I

Q: If I exist.. what advantage can you POSSIBLY have over me?

The advantage of knowing my own limitation and the advantage that you
dont.

Q: If you have advantage over me then how will you use it? as I am telling you right here I want to take something from you that I do not think you want to give.. What are you gonna do bout it?

First off what are you going to take it may not be worth my time, secondly can I personally continue my life without it and if so than I do not care, next if I can't live without it can it be replace if so no need to fight over it and if not than you would have to figure out what I was going to do before it came and that is a bad choice.
Terry


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## Phadrus00 (Jun 19, 2006)

Jenna said:
			
		

> TO my eyes it is a plain fact.. I am bigger than you.. bigger AND stronger AND more physically experienced for what I am about to do.. Further.. I am plainly BADDER than you as I am PREPARED having NO great conscience nor sense of moral. And as I am going about my business with you I DO NOT CARE if I hurt you maim you or if you die at my hands.. as has happened previously and left no lasting mark on my body or mind..


 
Hello Grendel....

Your teeth do knash, your claws do snicker but no matter.  My gaze is calm and steady and is that a hint of a smile on my lips.  Why so confident am I you ask...easy...  I am not alone.  You see just behind me is my constant companion, my dear old friend...  Oh I am sure you would recognize him if you dare to really look...  the hooded cowl, the empty inky blackness for a face, the pallor of uncertainty...  Yes.. Death, my mate, my bloke, ready to take me home with him and anyone else I choose to bring with me.. he is a very amicable host I assure you..

Known him long have I?  Ohh yes... we go way back..  I met him in the cold winds of my homeland..  a constant companion when the wind was so cold it would freeze your flesh on contact...  When you were rummaging around for firewood in hip deep snow to heat the house you lived in.. Walking home in a blizzard and not knowing if you are still in the road and hoping for a patch of pavement to be sure.. Ohh what fun we would have those days!  

Can you hear it...  Those howling winds...  snow and ice and cold aching to eat something warm and soft..  I can still hear it...  look at my eyes and see the snowstorm I have brought with me... It will lash and sting you and tug at your limbs and make you numb..  You and I will lie in that snow together this day and my friend Death will sing us his song...  haunting and hollow...  I'm not afraid... Are you?


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## green meanie (Jun 19, 2006)

Jenna said:
			
		

> Q: Are you willing to accept that I .. someone both bigger AND badder than you.. that I can exist?


Unless you're 12 or younger, you're probably bigger than me. Badder? I don't know. Define badder.



			
				Jenna said:
			
		

> Q: If I exist.. what advantage can you POSSIBLY have over me?


I'm _Meaner_ than you. 



			
				Jenna said:
			
		

> Q: If you have advantage over me then how will you use it? as I am telling you right here I want to take something from you that I do not think you want to give.. What are you gonna do bout it?


 I'll come out on top and go home... just like I always have.

:asian:


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## Dark (Jun 19, 2006)

Jenna said:
			
		

> Thank you for your follow-up  so am I paraphrasing you correctly when I say there is possibly SOMEONE out there who has the makings of you mister Dark? If so.. what would you do if you met them under "unfavourable" circumstances? ie. they want to take something from you which you do not want to give?? DO you stand and fight even though you admit to yourself they are likely bigger AND badder than you? What would you do in this situation?
> 
> Thank you


 
Been there done that, there are two things I will fight for my girl and my personal honor. If you are trying to take something from me then you need to beat me to take it. I just need to hold out until you make a mistake. The more you throw yourself at me th more I wait and watch and let you tire yourself out. 

Then I'm the stronger and faster of the two...:uhyeah:  You have to win, I just have to hold on, all conflicts are a matter of edurance.


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## rbzak1 (Jun 19, 2006)

Jenna said:
			
		

> Q: Are you willing to accept that I .. someone both bigger AND badder than you.. that I can exist?
> Q: If I exist.. what advantage can you POSSIBLY have over me?
> Q: If you have advantage over me then how will you use it? as I am telling you right here I want to take something from you that I do not think you want to give


 
To question 1: Yes. Chances are, the reason you're going to use your bigger and badder attitude towards me is because YOU have never realized someone like YOU exists. 

To question 2. I see you. I know you're real. Because you've shown yourself to be a threat to me, I can choose to act first. 

To question 3. Does what you want to take from me fall into the parameters I've set for myself as to what I would fight for, or try to kill you for, or DIE for? If not, I give it and walk away at peace. If so, I fire first knowing that if I'm never going to see my family again, you've got to go with me. If you don't, you've killed me and now have my wallet and can now pay a visit to my loved ones...and I've failed. Clarity Of Purpose. People say an animal is most dangerous when in it's death is imminent. If that's the only weapon I have to use against you, I choose to use it.


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## Xue Sheng (Jun 19, 2006)

Jenna said:
			
		

> Well.. we are straight.. we do not care for the feelings of the other. But big deal.. Cos know what.. I am STILL coming to take what I want from you.. voluntarily or forceably dont matter to me.. Either way I am gonna get what I want unless you think you can stop me .. Fact is.. I have not even decided what it is I want yet.. I am just cruisin the area and seen you there and thought I could get something from you.. Are you tellin me you are gonna run away from me? Well if you do maybe you got other people here ? I dunno maybe I will look around.. maybe you got friends ..maybe they got something to offer me..
> 
> ~~~~
> 
> ...


 
Jenna

You can add to the scenario, change it in anyway you wish, throw in the fact youre a psychopathic killer that has a salt water Crocodile on a leash, my response is the same. I am not exactly sure what response you are looking for, but I have faced similar scenarios in real life, it use to be my job. Not the psychopathic killer that has a salt water Crocodile on a leash, but the biggest baddest stuff I have had to deal with.

And if you want to throw in a threat to the life of my family, bottom-line one of us going to die, you will not hurt my family if I'm breathing. If you want my TV, go ahead I can replace that, but DO NOT mess with my family.

This scenario is not original as a matter of fact it is life in the world as we know it today. Crime and violent crime for that matter exist, and random acts of violence occur all of the time. I have no idea what your point is here. If it is to test our responses, okie dokie test away, although I am not a lab rat to be tested. If it is to educate, this is nothing new, been there done that. 

I am not exactly sure what you are looking for here, but as I said, change the scenario or add to it, I will do what I have to do.

Maybe this is what you are looking for I dont know

"Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for I am the baddest mother****** in the valley."

Although this is not how I feel, maybe it is what you are looking for as a response.


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## Flying Crane (Jun 19, 2006)

Jenna said:
			
		

> Yeah I noticed you alright. I noticed you got some fancy jewellery there.. Omega.. Yep I like that watch.. Im keen on wrist-watches see... I notice these things just walking down the street even though you never noticed me noticing.. well.. Ill be James Bond with that watch you got on your arm.. Ill take that for starters double-O-seven... just soon as you turn this next corner here.. Wonder what else you got? Money? Cellphone? What else? Yeah you dont look much to me.. I think Ill just come take what you got.. See I KNOW I am bigger and badder. I know I am never beaten.. So what could YOU possibly do? Make me pay heavily you say? How you gon do that to someone as big and bad as me?? You gonna face me down? Cos I never paid for anything in currency OR hurt... What could YOU POSSIBLY do to me? I hope you are ready...
> 
> ~~
> 
> ...


 
well   ***yawn***   we'll see when it happens...


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## Jenna (Jun 19, 2006)

terryl965 said:
			
		

> Q: Are you willing to accept that I .. someone both bigger AND badder than you.. that I can exist?
> 
> Yes there are poeple bigger and badder than I
> 
> ...


Hey Terry my wise friend  in fact you are three times wise my friend for imagining there are bigger and badder than you.. for imagining you still have options irrespective of that fact and for using your noggin before your fists!! kudos.. 

But let me ask you a supplementary question if I may.. how is knowing your limitation advantageous to you in this situation.. surely knowing your limitation would put you on the back foot straightwway against a bigger and badder adversary, no?

Thank you again 

Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna


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## Jenna (Jun 19, 2006)

Flying Crane said:
			
		

> well ***yawn*** we'll see when it happens...


Ahh you mock me.. my achilles heel exposed! ha! touche! I am off.. but Ill be back LOL


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## Jenna (Jun 19, 2006)

Phadrus00 said:
			
		

> Hello Grendel....
> 
> Your teeth do knash, your claws do snicker but no matter. My gaze is calm and steady and is that a hint of a smile on my lips. Why so confident am I you ask...easy... I am not alone. You see just behind me is my constant companion, my dear old friend... Oh I am sure you would recognize him if you dare to really look... the hooded cowl, the empty inky blackness for a face, the pallor of uncertainty... Yes.. Death, my mate, my bloke, ready to take me home with him and anyone else I choose to bring with me.. he is a very amicable host I assure you..
> 
> ...


ahh Beowulf  you talk the talk.. I hope you talk the same when your warrior pals aint got your back.. when it is just you with nothing but that haunting and hollow song on your tongue.. Just remember I am bigger than you and badder than you and there are many like you who wave the threat of death like a flag but it is a pennant under which they soon get to sacrifice themselves... Am I afraid for my own mortality? I am surely though not believing it will ever be taken from me as I go bout my business with you or anyone else.. Arrogance you see..

~~~~

LOL  Hey Rob  you are good!! I think of you from herein always as The Poet Warrior!

Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna


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## Swordlady (Jun 19, 2006)

Jenna said:
			
		

> Q: Are you willing to accept that I .. someone both bigger AND badder than you.. that I can exist?


 
Most EVERYONE is bigger than me.  I'm used to it.  



			
				Jenna said:
			
		

> Q: If I exist.. what advantage can you POSSIBLY have over me?


 
Like what Chris said, the element of surprise.  Most baddies prefer an "easy" target, not one that has some fight.  And as you know with Aikido, the smaller person already has the upper hand.



			
				Jenna said:
			
		

> Q: If you have advantage over me then how will you use it? as I am telling you right here I want to take something from you that I do not think you want to give.. What are you gonna do bout it?


 
It depends on what you want from me.  If it is something that can be replaced, then take it.  But if you want to physically harm me, that is an entirely different story.  I would wait for you to make the first move, since I think it is far more foolish to instigate a fight with someone MUCH bigger.  Use the force of your attack, and turn it _against_ you.  For me, it would be some kind of quick block or take-down, immediately followed by a hard attack (elbow or knee, depending on where the attacker is).  While praying hard that you cease with your offensive.

Mind you, fighting would never be my first choice if I am ever confronted with a situation like this.  It would be an absolute last result.


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## terryl965 (Jun 19, 2006)

But let me ask you a supplementary question if I may.. how is knowing your limitation advantageous to you in this situation.. surely knowing your limitation would put you on the back foot straightwway against a bigger and badder adversary, no?


In this way Jenna if you are bigger and badder than me than my strength is not an advantage but a limitation, in which case I would need to use my head and mind to go for places that you will not see coming from any angle and would let my limitatio take care of your surely brute strength.
Terry


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## Jenna (Jun 19, 2006)

green meanie said:
			
		

> Unless you're 12 or younger, you're probably bigger than me. Badder? I don't know. Define badder.
> 
> 
> I'm _Meaner_ than you.
> ...


Hey D  stop that and BE SERIOUS.. ha! just joking... Or am I?? ha!  

Define "badder"? It is surely a question of intent and follow through, no? If you got the one and can commit to the other then you are bad.. if you got more malice in the one and a stronger commitment to the other then you are badder.. if all your conscience circuits are blown and you are unafraid to commit an ultimate sacrifice for what it is you want then you IS baddest.. imho.. Do these perversities of humanity exist.. absolutely they do.

And yes of course at the end of the day as you say.. we come out on top and go home.. just like the movies.. 

Be good,
Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna


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## Jenna (Jun 19, 2006)

Dark said:
			
		

> Been there done that, there are two things I will fight for my girl and my personal honor. If you are trying to take something from me then you need to beat me to take it. I just need to hold out until you make a mistake. The more you throw yourself at me th more I wait and watch and let you tire yourself out.
> 
> Then I'm the stronger and faster of the two...:uhyeah: You have to win, I just have to hold on, all conflicts are a matter of edurance.


Well I am encouraged you have a "game plan" at least for this bigger badder opponent though I will admit that having me throw myself at you randomly for a while and tire myself out sounds maybe a little optimistic, no? 

Clarify for me.. while I am throwing myself around.. what would you be doing..? would you not care to join in? Or would you be happy to have me just throw myself about until I am exhausted? and then jump in for the killer blow.. this is cruelty, no?  ahh you are a heartless fighter my friend


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## green meanie (Jun 19, 2006)

Jenna said:
			
		

> Hey D  stop that and BE SERIOUS.. ha! just joking... Or am I?? ha!


 
I was being serious... wasn't I?


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## Carol (Jun 19, 2006)

> Q: Are you willing to accept that I .. someone both bigger AND badder than you.. that I can exist?


 
Yeah, you exist.  Chances are you have a Y chromosome, too.  I don't mind people with Y chromosomes, in fact I can be rather fond of them.  Just not you.  I don't trust you.



> Q: If I exist.. what advantage can you POSSIBLY have over me?


 
You think with the wrong head.




> Q: If you have advantage over me then how will you use it? as I am telling you right here I want to take something from you that I do not think you want to give.. What are you gonna do bout it?


 
You aren't expecting me to be situationally aware.  You aren't expecing my manic brain to be observing everything around me because its bored and has nothing else to do until I cram some numbers down it.  You don't realize that the adrenaline dump will be far more disorienting to you than it will to me.  I may surprise you, I may scare you, I may fight you but I know that all I have to do is outsmart you.


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## Jenna (Jun 19, 2006)

Carol Kaur said:
			
		

> Yeah, you exist. Chances are you have a Y chromosome, too. I don't mind people with Y chromosomes, in fact I can be rather fond of them. Just not you. I don't trust you.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


One X + one Y -vs- two X ?? Hmmm.... yes but what is that to me? I follow my instincts.. I take what I want. Question is what will you do to stop me from taking what I want? I am bigger than you and badder than you remember... And lest you forget the thrill I may get I will also have my adrenals pumping into my bloodstream same as you.. does your training really delude you into thinking you are a match for me?


~~~~~


Thank you Carol my most enlightened friend  Do not run away now.. stay and fight a while 

Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna


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## Dark (Jun 19, 2006)

Jenna said:
			
		

> Well I am encouraged you have a "game plan" at least for this bigger badder opponent though I will admit that having me throw myself at you randomly for a while and tire myself out sounds maybe a little optimistic, no?


 
Nope law of agression, in order to beat me you have to attack me, I just have to stay alive to win  And it doesn't take long for people make mistakes, and you will make the same mistakes over again because I won't get them on the first two or three times they show up. That way I can set you up to lose an arm or leg when you make that mistake.



			
				Jenna said:
			
		

> Clarify for me.. while I am throwing myself around.. what would you be doing..? would you not care to join in? Or would you be happy to have me just throw myself about until I am exhausted? and then jump in for the killer blow.. this is cruelty, no?  ahh you are a heartless fighter my friend


 
Blocking, dodging and talking pure **** to make you want to attack me even more. Like I said I know the game, I've played it myself that one opening you have in guard, and you will have it because your attacking, I'll hit and go straight for the eyes. Thats where those sharpened finger nails come in, and while your blinded for moment I can run away, but I won't. 

Thats where the fear part comes in  and the evil comes out, thats where getto switch blades, wallet chains and knuckle dusters come out and in your mind. I ran away so your guard is down. To me it's a matter of experience, you won't know I know the game. But I will know your game before you annouce your intentions. I grew up around bikers and street fighters, so I got the best of both worlds and learned from the "old dogs" who have been their and done that. Now I'm talking about fighting heartlessly


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## Jenna (Jun 19, 2006)

rbzak1 said:
			
		

> To question 1: Yes. Chances are, the reason you're going to use your bigger and badder attitude towards me is because YOU have never realized someone like YOU exists.
> 
> To question 2. I see you. I know you're real. Because you've shown yourself to be a threat to me, I can choose to act first.
> 
> To question 3. Does what you want to take from me fall into the parameters I've set for myself as to what I would fight for, or try to kill you for, or DIE for? If not, I give it and walk away at peace. If so, I fire first knowing that if I'm never going to see my family again, you've got to go with me. If you don't, you've killed me and now have my wallet and can now pay a visit to my loved ones...and I've failed. Clarity Of Purpose. People say an animal is most dangerous when in it's death is imminent. If that's the only weapon I have to use against you, I choose to use it.


 
Ahh my friend  you are a clever one! Your answer to the first question shows absolutely your eyes are open! Excellent! And for #2 you rightly state that you can choose to react or pre-empt.. and this is an advantage of CHOICE that can NEVER be overlooked.. and for #3.. I AM impressed is all I will say.. I like your concise and cogent answers a lot. Thank you for this 

Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna


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## Carol (Jun 19, 2006)

Jenna said:
			
		

> One X + one Y -vs- two X ?? Hmmm.... yes but what is that to me? I follow my instincts.. I take what I want. Question is what will you do to stop me from taking what I want? I am bigger than you and badder than you remember... And lest you forget the thrill I may get I will also have my adrenals pumping into my bloodstream same as you.. does your training really delude you into thinking you are a match for me?


 
Your mind is raging, my mind is clear.I've had to solve a lot more complex problems than what to with a big oaf like you when my mind has been on fire.  I may defeat you without throwing a punch.


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## Xue Sheng (Jun 19, 2006)

Jenna said:
			
		

> Well I am encouraged you have a "game plan" at least for this bigger badder opponent though I will admit that having me throw myself at you randomly for a while and tire myself out sounds maybe a little optimistic, no?
> 
> Clarify for me.. while I am throwing myself around.. what would you be doing..? would you not care to join in? Or would you be happy to have me just throw myself about until I am exhausted? and then jump in for the killer blow.. this is cruelty, no?  ahh you are a heartless fighter my friend


 
What!?!?!?

This is all just a game to you, isn't it?

I leave you to your game and scenario


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## bluemtn (Jun 19, 2006)

Jenna said:
			
		

> Well I am encouraged you have a "game plan" at least for this bigger badder opponent though I will admit that having me throw myself at you randomly for a while and tire myself out sounds maybe a little optimistic, no?
> 
> Clarify for me.. while I am throwing myself around.. what would you be doing..? would you not care to join in? Or would you be happy to have me just throw myself about until I am exhausted? and then jump in for the killer blow.. this is cruelty, no?  ahh you are a heartless fighter my friend


 
Everyone has a weakness-  including being egotistical.  I have patience on my side for that sort of thing-  big, bad, whatever.  If I can't defeat you, then yes-  I'll let you wear yourself out and then jump in.   Heartless?  Hardly!


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## Phadrus00 (Jun 19, 2006)

Jenna said:
			
		

> ahh Beowulf  you talk the talk.. I hope you talk the same when your warrior pals aint got your back.. when it is just you with nothing but that haunting and hollow song on your tongue.. Just remember I am bigger than you and badder than you and there are many like you who wave the threat of death like a flag but it is a pennant under which they soon get to sacrifice themselves... Am I afraid for my own mortality? I am surely though not believing it will ever be taken from me as I go bout my business with you or anyone else.. Arrogance you see..


 
*still smiling*  No buddies at my back save the Grim Reaper...  You may be Bigger and Badder...  But maybe I'm Crazier....  Maybe I really don't have anything to loose and maybe, just maybe I ain't afraid of dancing with the devil himself and if that's true maybe you might end up coming along for the ride straight to hell...

Is that a moment of hesitation in your step....

The Wind is getting louder isn't it.......  



			
				Jenna said:
			
		

> LOL  Hey Rob  you are good!! I think of you from herein always as The Poet Warrior!


 
*bow*  You are too kind Dear Jenna...  And if I my words do please the ear know that it is only a small addendum to your inspired Opus...  Without the inspired Question, there cannot be an inspiring Answer...

Your Most Humble Servant,
Rob


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## Rich Parsons (Jun 19, 2006)

Jenna said:
			
		

> Q: Are you willing to accept that I .. someone both bigger AND badder than you.. that I can exist?



I have seen and dealt with those bigger and badder than me. So I know you exist let alone accept that you exist. 



			
				Jenna said:
			
		

> Q: If I exist.. what advantage can you POSSIBLY have over me?



Position, and using the environment to my advantage. If you are sitting then I put my hands on the table you are at to be able to push it back into you.  I am willing to use improvised weapons to assist in my task. 



			
				Jenna said:
			
		

> Q: If you have advantage over me then how will you use it?



I will use it by bringing as hard as you and and as fast and hopefully before you do. 



			
				Jenna said:
			
		

> as I am telling you right here I want to take something from you that I do not think you want to give.. What are you gonna do bout it?



You either walk away and let the police handle it, or you take it to them before they are ready to fighter. Some hit themselves in preparation. After the first hit, I take it to them before they are recovered and also ready with the adrenaline pumped up. 

If there are multiple people I take out the closest person as mean I as I can. If I get a chance to speak I might let them know I am going to hurt them real bad, so they will think of me as the bigger and badder peson. I will use my intellignece to scare them. If not then you take them out as fast as possible. No questions, no worries they go down. Their head against the wall, the stick against their head, the can of tuna fish in your hand against their head. What ever it takes you take it to them so their survival instinct kicks in and they want to flee. 

Now there are some out there who do not have to be bigger or badder they have to be just on some drig and they feel no pain. You can break their arm or hand and they will not feel it until they come down. In this case you have to use their lose of sense against them. Still hurt them but you have to also use certain control such as stepping on their head to get their attention. 

Or as I recommend you just walk away and drop a dime on them and let the police with their back up handle it. 

Peace


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## pstarr (Jun 19, 2006)

My first response would be to walk away.

    If that isn't going to work, then the assailant is going to get hurt...real bad.  He can be bigger than me.  Maybe badder (a legend in his own mind).  But I'll be the one left standing when the dust settles.

Anything's fair so long as I win.


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## Shaolinwind (Jun 19, 2006)

> Q: Are you willing to accept that I .. someone both bigger AND badder than you.. that I can exist?


 
You don't exist.  If I accept that you do, that means you can and will have your way with me and I've already lost against you.



> Q: If I exist.. what advantage can you POSSIBLY have over me?


 
See above.  I have not accepted the possibility of an assailant being badder than I.  The assailant will see that and start to question himself.. If he has half a brain.



> Q: If you have advantage over me then how will you use it? as I am telling you right here I want to take something from you that I do not think you want to give.. What are you gonna do bout it?


 
Lack of fear. Direct eye contact.  A bark that suggests the bite is strong.  And the bite, bone crushing.  It's my only option, or give up, bend over and take it from behind.  Not today, not me and not without maiming you first.


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## Hand Sword (Jun 20, 2006)

Jenna said:
			
		

> TO my eyes it is a plain fact.. I am bigger than you.. bigger AND stronger AND more physically experienced for what I am about to do.. Further.. I am plainly BADDER than you as I am PREPARED having NO great conscience nor sense of moral. And as I am going about my business with you I DO NOT CARE if I hurt you maim you or if you die at my hands.. as has happened previously and left no lasting mark on my body or mind..
> 
> Q: Are you willing to accept that I .. someone both bigger AND badder than you.. that I can exist?
> Q: If I exist.. what advantage can you POSSIBLY have over me?
> ...


 
1. Absolutely yes. The story of my life, especially early on.
2. Hopefully smarts. But, POSSIBLY------ NOTHING!
3. Maybe just give it, but, probably--Fight. Some you win. Some you lose.


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## Adept (Jun 20, 2006)

Jenna said:
			
		

> TO my eyes it is a plain fact.. I am bigger than you.. bigger AND stronger AND more physically experienced for what I am about to do.. Further.. I am plainly BADDER than you as I am PREPARED having NO great conscience nor sense of moral. And as I am going about my business with you I DO NOT CARE if I hurt you maim you or if you die at my hands.. as has happened previously and left no lasting mark on my body or mind.. I am telling you right here I want to take something from you that I do not think you want to give.. What are you gonna do bout it



I get people acting like this with a reasonable level of frequency at work.

Me - "Sorry sir, we have a $10 cover charge tonight"
Them - "I'm not pyaing that! I'm going to go in and have a drink."
Me - "I'm afraid I can't let you through without paying, sir"
Them - "Who's going to stop me? You?"

That last is often accompanied by a condescending sneer.

My mental response at this point is; Yeah, maybe me. And if not me, maybe that guy over there. And if not him, theres another three guys inside. I reckon all five of us have got a pretty good shot at taking you down. And even if we don't, theres gonna be a world of pain. Is it really worth it?

Thankfully I've never yet encountered anyone bigger and badder than all of us put together, and I tend to avoid situations where I'm likely to be involved in non-work related violence.


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## Hand Sword (Jun 20, 2006)

Adept said:
			
		

> I get people acting like this with a reasonable level of frequency at work.
> 
> Me - "Sorry sir, we have a $10 cover charge tonight"
> Them - "I'm not pyaing that! I'm going to go in and have a drink."
> ...


 
OH MY! That is so familiar!!!!!   Heard it two nights ago too!


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## MartialIntent (Jun 20, 2006)

Jenna said:
			
		

> TO my eyes it is a plain fact.. I am bigger than you.. bigger AND stronger AND more physically experienced for what I am about to do.. Further.. I am plainly BADDER than you as I am PREPARED having NO great conscience nor sense of moral. And as I am going about my business with you I DO NOT CARE if I hurt you maim you or if you die at my hands.. as has happened previously and left no lasting mark on my body or mind..
> 
> Q: Are you willing to accept that I .. someone both bigger AND badder than you.. that I can exist?
> Q: If I exist.. what advantage can you POSSIBLY have over me?
> ...


1. Yes _of course_ you exist. I lay no claim to being either big *or* bad so yep, I see you everywhere, from the street corner to my place of work and your "bad" intentions are carried through wherever I meet you, just in different ways and using different methods.

I think you're right though Jenna, there is quite a bit of complacency on certain corners in the martial arts where the belief seems to be that even where bigger and badder exist, MA skill can overcome it.

2. I haven't got your complacency. And if you're as good a physical fighter as I [or better] I'm forced to rely on a greater cogition. I mean, you can't be *everything* right? They ain't built the Universal Soldier. Yet. Hehe.

Personally I've learned *never* to assume an opponent has less martial art or fighting ability than I do. I *hope* this is the case but I no longer assume it. So what does that leave? The only remaining factor if they're a match or better in physical fighting terms is that I'm slightly ahead on my cognition. Ultimately I've got to be prepared to accept the fact that I'm just _not_ the best there ever was, and consequently there's a chance I'll be beat. Only the aforementioned complacency would lead one to believe otherwise.

3. If greater cognition is my only advantage, I'll need to play the speed-chess game. First things first. If I've got the chance to exit, them I'm gone and you can fight the thin air. But if you've got me in a room or somewhere with no exit then I think it'll be a quick game. I'm not gonna stand around and let you throw punches or try grabs on me because if you're the better physical fighter, there's a chance you'll take me. I'll stay out of your circle but you need to be *very* careful _not_ to leave any opening. And I suspect your complacency will lead you to do just that. We'll see.

Thanks for this thread J - intelligent and provoking as usual!

Respects!


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## Adept (Jun 20, 2006)

Hand Sword said:
			
		

> OH MY! That is so familiar!!!!!   Heard it two nights ago too!



Heh, and the other one they seem to like; "Well, I'm just going to stand right here then..."

Honestly, it's like working in a childcare centre with six foot tall aggressive children.


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## Drac (Jun 20, 2006)

Jenna said:
			
		

> Q: Are you willing to accept that I .. someone both bigger AND badder than you.. that I can exist?


A: Yes.

Q:





			
				Jenna said:
			
		

> If I exist.. what advantage can you POSSIBLY have over me?


 
A: Experience in dealing with many such as you..The Physical Skills and the proper mind set, it a cop thing...

Q:





			
				jenna said:
			
		

> If you have advantage over me then how will you use it?


 
A: That would be telling.. 



			
				Jenna said:
			
		

> as I am telling you right here I want to take something from you that I do not think you want to give.. What are you gonna do bout it


 
A: WHATEVER is necessary to win.My watch ends and 4 am and I'm going home..


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## Kacey (Jun 20, 2006)

Jenna said:
			
		

> Q: Are you willing to accept that I .. someone both bigger AND badder than you.. that I can exist?
> Q: If I exist.. what advantage can you POSSIBLY have over me?
> Q: If you have advantage over me then how will you use it? as I am telling you right here I want to take something from you that I do not think you want to give.. What are you gonna do bout it?



There is _*always*_ someone out there who is bigger, faster, stronger, more skilled, better trained, etc.  The trick is to be smarter, more careful, and to not be alone if at all possible.  

The first rule of self-defense:  don't get into a situation where you need to defend yourself.  The second rule:  run like the wind.  Corollary to the second rule:  if someone grabs you and you can't run, do whatever you need to do to make the person let go; see second rule.

The only rule of street-fighting:  do it first, do it fast, and do it dirty.  This is a concept that is not always appropriately addressed in martial arts classes:   you cannot win a street fight using tournament rules.


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## Kembudo-Kai Kempoka (Jun 20, 2006)

Jenna said:
			
		

> Q: Are you willing to accept that I .. someone both bigger AND badder than you.. that I can exist?
> Q: If I exist.. what advantage can you POSSIBLY have over me?
> Q: If you have advantage over me then how will you use it? as I am telling you right here I want to take something from you that I do not think you want to give.. What are you gonna do bout it?


 
In a harken back to another thread about combat and honor...I remain a fan of the "Live Well; Die Gloriously" mind set. I know you're out there. Hell, I've tangled with you before to look down that tunnel and into the light, only to be saved at the last by efforts not my own, so I also know you can, and perhaps will, win. But I have been in that place before; of feeling the body shut down in defeat, and watched in amazement as the fears, rage and anxieties of self-preservation dissolved into sweet, sweet peace.

My advantage is this: You may win. But I'm going to take a piece of you with me, so that you remember our brawl each time the weather changes. Each time you reach for the aspirin bottle. Each time you drink to dull the pain. And I, in exchange, will be spared the ennui of a slow passing, brought on by my own poor dietary habits and impure living. No pacemakers; no chemo wards; no slobbering post-stroke syndromes, just sweet release.

So have at you then, by Krom. And you better bring your best, because I am. And you better be good, because I will be. Right up to the moment my spirit returns to the gods for judgement, and I join my fathers in the sky.


----------



## Jenna (Jun 20, 2006)

tkdgirl said:
			
		

> Everyone has a weakness- including being egotistical. I have patience on my side for that sort of thing- big, bad, whatever. If I can't defeat you, then yes- I'll let you wear yourself out and then jump in. Heartless? Hardly!


Ahh as the great Ali said.. it is not arrogance if you can back it up.. And so tell me MISSY.. what exactly would you let me wear myself out doing? I am not going to wear myself out swinging aimlessly or hitting a brick wall.. I AM coming FOR YOU and I think you have NO idea of how you are gonna stop me. Do ya?

~~~

Thank you my friend tkdgirl..  You know I value your input particularly on this as I think maybe in certain ways we are alike you and I... 

Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna


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## Jenna (Jun 20, 2006)

Phadrus00 said:
			
		

> *still smiling* No buddies at my back save the Grim Reaper... You may be Bigger and Badder... But maybe I'm Crazier.... Maybe I really don't have anything to loose and maybe, just maybe I ain't afraid of dancing with the devil himself and if that's true maybe you might end up coming along for the ride straight to hell...
> 
> Is that a moment of hesitation in your step....
> 
> ...


Well boyo.. if you are happy to ride the train to the terminal then I am happy to pay your fare. See I have heard many say this but the look on their face at reaching the last stop belied their joy at getting there... fact I know that look well.. it always says... uh-oh I took a wrong turn.. I did not mean what I said.. take me back.. Well.. ARE you blustering? No matter.. I am coming to get what I want anyway... so if it is bravado you better have something else going for ya!

~~~~

Hey Rob ya big Poet Warrior.. you are too kind and flattering me.. now stop that and answer this question, ha! 

Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna


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## Jenna (Jun 20, 2006)

Rich Parsons said:
			
		

> Now there are some out there who do not have to be bigger or badder they have to be just on some drig and they feel no pain. You can break their arm or hand and they will not feel it until they come down. In this case you have to use their lose of sense against them. Still hurt them but you have to also use certain control such as stepping on their head to get their attention.
> 
> Or as I recommend you just walk away and drop a dime on them and let the police with their back up handle it.
> 
> Peace


Hey Rich my dangerous friend  Thank you very much for this and which you KNOW I listen to because you speak not from what you have read but from what you have DONE... I will ask you two simple questions.. are you PREPARED to be beat? and when for YOU Rich is discretion the better part of valour? ie when do you run and when do you stand your ground?  Thank you 

Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna


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## Jenna (Jun 20, 2006)

pstarr said:
			
		

> My first response would be to walk away.
> 
> If that isn't going to work, then the assailant is going to get hurt...real bad. He can be bigger than me. Maybe badder (a legend in his own mind). But I'll be the one left standing when the dust settles.
> 
> Anything's fair so long as I win.


Hey P my thoughtful friend  I am appreciative of your considered reply as I am sure you will know by now.. Can I ask of you regarding your response.. is it mere wishful thinking to say that you will be "the one left standing when the dust settles"? I mean from where are you getting the assurance to say this so ASSERTIVELY? And do you REALLY mean that ANYTHING is fair if it goes towards your eventual victory? ANYTHING?  Thank you again  

Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna


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## Jenna (Jun 20, 2006)

Shaolinwind said:
			
		

> You don't exist. If I accept that you do, that means you can and will have your way with me and I've already lost against you.


Hey Ger my friend who rides the Shaolinwind  Thank you also for taking time to put together your reply.. I would very much like to ask a question of you.. are you of the opinion that NO ONE is both bigger and badder than you are? Or are you saying yes this person exists somewhere but you are not prepared to acknowledge those particular facts about them? If so.. is there any truth in saying this is a mind game you are playing with just yourself?

I mean.. yes you are absolutely correct in that if you have a submissive demeanour then that will be apparent to your opponent..  but at the same time is it not preferable to at least acknowledge that there ARE superior to us (and we can just front the rest), no? 

Thank you again my friend I am interested in your reply 

Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna


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## Jenna (Jun 20, 2006)

Hand Sword said:
			
		

> 1. Absolutely yes. The story of my life, especially early on.
> 2. Hopefully smarts. But, POSSIBLY------ NOTHING!
> 3. Maybe just give it, but, probably--Fight. Some you win. Some you lose.


Hey Hand Sword-san  yes my friend as ever though your replies are laconic.. your eyes are open wide  I know you do not reply or anything but fwiw.. good job..

Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna


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## still learning (Jun 20, 2006)

Hello, Big people know they are bigger...just like big dogs know they are big....

so if you can only reach the knees? ....step the toes and hook punch the knee on the side...let them fall...run like hell!    ........Aloha


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## Jenna (Jun 20, 2006)

Adept said:
			
		

> Thankfully I've never yet encountered anyone bigger and badder than all of us put together, and I tend to avoid situations where I'm likely to be involved in non-work related violence.


Hey Adept my friend  yes you make a good point here which no one had picked up on before you and that is of superiority through numbers.. it is obvious why we train as sole practitioners in our arts.. but yes absolutely where we have support on our Saturday nights it should be brought to bear as the game-ender rather than seeing us making any attempt to be a Bruce Willis Die Hard "heroic".. Thank you for making this well-observed point 

Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna


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## Jenna (Jun 20, 2006)

MartialIntent said:
			
		

> 3. If greater cognition is my only advantage, I'll need to play the speed-chess game. First things first. If I've got the chance to exit, them I'm gone and you can fight the thin air. But if you've got me in a room or somewhere with no exit then I think it'll be a quick game. I'm not gonna stand around and let you throw punches or try grabs on me because if you're the better physical fighter, there's a chance you'll take me. I'll stay out of your circle but you need to be *very* careful _not_ to leave any opening. And I suspect your complacency will lead you to do just that. We'll see.
> 
> Thanks for this thread J - intelligent and provoking as usual!
> 
> Respects!


Hey MI my special Aikido friend  you are by-the-book absolutely and leave me with little to query you on.. Ahh you play chess also.. this is good and I will challenge to a game anytime!! Well though your answers are cogent as ever I will fire a question at you as I am interested in your view and maybe you can tell me at what point in the confrontation.. the "room" scenario you describe.. at what point do you MOVE against this bigger and badder opponent.. If this really WERE the Universal Soldier.. besides the fact that your irish accent is nicer than Van Dammes or Lundgrens ha! what would you do bout exactly such a bigger and badder opponent?? Ahh have I put you into a corner?? Ha! but only cos I know you are good for it.. 

Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna


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## elder999 (Jun 20, 2006)

Haven't ever met you, though I've met a few that thought they *were* you-they were *wrong.*

You and your friends are the reason why I carry a gun.


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## Jenna (Jun 20, 2006)

Drac said:
			
		

> A: Experience in dealing with many such as you..The Physical Skills and the proper mind set, it a cop thing...


Hey there mister Drac  Ahh but you are Officer Drac or Captain Drac maybe? Wow and you are a true blue cop and this is REAL WORLD absolutely and of course I would want to ask you a LOT of questions bout that but I do not know if I am allowed to do that? so I will only ask rhetorically.. I wonder what exactly that "mindset" has to be for dealing with someone who plainly has the intent to do harm and has little thought for the consequences to themselves or anyone else .. and I hope you would confirm for me that there are individuals like this as I think someone made the point earlier that such people with lacking moral ethic and proper sense of guile DO NOT even exist.. even in my own experience I KNOW there are such folk walking around freely..

Anyway.. I am sorry if I break protocols by asking you this and if you are not inclined to reply then thank you again and I am VERY appreciative of what you and your counterparts over here in London do for real every day for the likes of me..

Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna


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## Jenna (Jun 20, 2006)

elder999 said:
			
		

> Haven't ever met you, though I've met a few that thought they *were* you-they were *wrong.*
> 
> You and your friends are the reason why I carry a gun.


You acknowledge I exist then. And you believe I will give you plenty of advance notice to draw your gun and use it on me. 


~~~

Thank you for this my erudite friend 

Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna


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## Jenna (Jun 20, 2006)

Kacey said:
			
		

> There is _*always*_ someone out there who is bigger, faster, stronger, more skilled, better trained, etc. The trick is to be smarter, more careful, and to not be alone if at all possible.
> 
> The first rule of self-defense: don't get into a situation where you need to defend yourself. The second rule: run like the wind. Corollary to the second rule: if someone grabs you and you can't run, do whatever you need to do to make the person let go; see second rule.
> 
> The only rule of street-fighting: do it first, do it fast, and do it dirty. This is a concept that is not always appropriately addressed in martial arts classes: you cannot win a street fight using tournament rules.


Hey Kacey my eternally lucid friend  thank you for this! And I very much like your "rules" of self-defence and though I would NEVER blame anyone for falling foul of the first rule as often it is not lack of awareness but deliberate stealth of an aggressor that causes someone to fall foul of the first rule.. but yes you have the second rule in place also and which is particularly pertinent to our martial skills..

And yes I wholly agree with your take on street-fighting which is perversely glorified in certain circles and you have knocked the nail in with one blow when you say that the required aggression is a study NOT generally broached sufficiently in martial arts classes which follow normal patterns.. thank you for raising this issue and what I wonder could be done to redress this imbalance where we concentrate on flowing techniques but not on the mindset needed to apply them for real?? 

Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna


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## Jenna (Jun 20, 2006)

Kembudo-Kai Kempoka said:
			
		

> So have at you then, by Krom. And you better bring your best, because I am. And you better be good, because I will be. Right up to the moment my spirit returns to the gods for judgement, and I join my fathers in the sky.


I seldom meet a fighter having such a good match to my own misanthropic mind.. but remember though we are both prepared to go to the wire (and beyond) I am still bigger and I may be better from experience and moreover I WANT something you have and I WANT it bad enough to come get it off you.... and I wonder do you like a little Ace of Spades.. ya know..Lemmy and the boys? .. win some lose some its all the same to me? Are you the sort of gambler to see the odds against you and take the bet anyway.. I might be a street-hacker a brawler and a criminal of every colour and persuasion but I am not stupid.. and there is a chance that your very attitude qualifies YOU as badder than me BUT it is easy to say these words and I am STILL coming for you.. I hope for your sake you have something in your tank otherwise those words gon be your epitaph..

~~~~~

Hey D my esoteric friend  wow! all this is good stuff.. if you are for real.. and why should I doubt.. then you is one bad mofo..  remember.. Jenna is my friend.. say it!! Jenna is my friend... again, ha! 

Be good for me 

Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna


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## Shirt Ripper (Jun 20, 2006)

Jenna said:
			
		

> TO my eyes it is a plain fact.. I am bigger than you.. bigger AND stronger AND more physically experienced for what I am about to do.. Further.. I am plainly BADDER than you as I am PREPARED having NO great conscience nor sense of moral. And as I am going about my business with you I DO NOT CARE if I hurt you maim you or if you die at my hands.. as has happened previously and left no lasting mark on my body or mind..
> 
> Q: Are you willing to accept that I .. someone both bigger AND badder than you.. that I can exist?
> Q: If I exist.. what advantage can you POSSIBLY have over me?
> ...


 
I would say...you probably never met me than...Rambo syndrome...


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## Ric Flair (Jun 20, 2006)

Bigger? Badder? Than you?

What can you do but not play fair?  I mean if he is bigger and badder than you, AND can fight....

What choices do you have but to hit him in the testicles?  Bite his ears off?

Pick up a stick and beat him with it.  Stab him! If it comes to it!  Throw dirt into his eyes!  A brick!  Who knows?!

Obviously he is not coming at you fair by being bigger and badder than you.  So you have no guilt if you beat him "unfair".  Besides, on the street "unfair" IS FAIR.


----------



## Dark (Jun 20, 2006)

Ric Flair said:
			
		

> Bigger? Badder? Than you?
> 
> What can you do but not play fair? I mean if he is bigger and badder than you, AND can fight....
> 
> ...


 
Except for the stabbing thing thats all the school yard stuff... The real fun is when the Big-Bad-Wolf meets one of those grizzled old guys who ahve been there done that so many times I they don't need to T-shirt. Then bigger and badder gets you turned in an example, and being an example is worst then being a victem...


----------



## Rich Parsons (Jun 20, 2006)

Jenna said:
			
		

> Hey Rich my dangerous friend  Thank you very much for this and which you KNOW I listen to because you speak not from what you have read but from what you have DONE... I will ask you two simple questions.. are you PREPARED to be beat? and when for YOU Rich is discretion the better part of valour? ie when do you run and when do you stand your ground? Thank you
> 
> Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
> Jenna



If it is just me. I run. 

If the bigger badder person is beating someone smaller with no chance at all, I stand and try to distract to give them a chance to get away. (* Did this in San Diego once, so not just local stuff for me *)

Am I ready to be beat?

Nope! I have been hit so hard that my eye looked into my nose. I knew if I gave up they would kill me. I closed my eye and kept fighting. I ended up on the ground in a door way where one tried to jump on top me. I was able to use my legs to keep him off and still jab with the other leg. After I survived a while, those in fear as two other "BIG" guys had been taken out with one punch each, the crowd turned on the multiple attackers. Some ran for the police while others started hitting them with what they could grab.  Some could say I was lucky, but I think it is because I did not give up.

I have faced and looked down the wrong end of a gun. I gave the guy my wallet. Another time I used the gun wielder's buddy as a body shield. They went to theri vehicles and as they were leaving they stopped to posture again. The one packing asked me if I was ready to die then. Before he could clear his arm, I charged the vehicle he was in. The driver was not ready to get the truck damaged and took off. Note: I went for the back of the cab on the passenger side so it made it harder for the right handed person to turn and point at me. 

If I have those with me, I use what I can to get away, even if I have to stay to give them time to get away or get a vehicle started and moving. I was never so pissed as one date who wanted to see me in action and would not leave. (* Last Date it was *) 

Note: Most of that was years ago, so this is based upon what I did then. I have more to loose on paper now, but the issue is I do not have the wind or strength I did when I was 20 years younger. So, I have plans now to ended it even faster. 

I remember a time when some people were mouthing off and this guy came up with his hand behind his back. I assumed it was a gun so I was under cover behind a vehicle. Once I realized it was only a tire iron, I laughed and was able to handle the situation with no one getting hurt. 

I also remember a time when a small guy picked the fight with the bigger and badder guys in the place. They came over and wanted to take us all on. I stood up and said just a few minutes before you kick my butt. What happened. I got the story real quick. this guy was a friend of a friend os someone I knew. So, I grabbed him by the ear and stood him up where i he reached for my hand and I did some finger locks on him. I got him in a nice lock and on his knees and asked the guys if they could wait to kick my butt until I was done with kicking this guys butt. They smiled and laughed and walked away. I then proceeded to cause this guy pain all night long. When not in physical pain, I would make sure he had not shot with a woman. In the end he told me I was an ******* and I said yes. But I was honest about being it while he was a little one who I did not like. I told his friends that I would not be out with them again. 

So, I have no problem walking away. 

I have no problem giving someone my wallet. 

I have no problem letting them call me names as long as I have a safe way out.

Threaten those with me who are not able to protect themselves and it all depends upon the situation.

Sorry no real cut and dry. But once I begin it ends with him quitting, or unable to fight or others breaking it up, or I loose and am unable to continue. 


**** Sorry for the ramble ****


----------



## pstarr (Jun 21, 2006)

Reminds me of the emblem of the Da-Dao Tui (Big Sword Unit) of the Chinese Army during WWII-  Translated, it said (roughly):

"When we run out of ammunition we swing our rifles,
When your rifles break, we use our swords,
When our swords break we use our hands,
When our hands break, we bite."

:tank:


----------



## MartialIntent (Jun 21, 2006)

Jenna said:
			
		

> Hey MI my special Aikido friend  you are by-the-book absolutely and leave me with little to query you on.. Ahh you play chess also.. this is good and I will challenge to a game anytime!! Well though your answers are cogent as ever I will fire a question at you as I am interested in your view and maybe you can tell me at what point in the confrontation.. the "room" scenario you describe.. at what point do you MOVE against this bigger and badder opponent.. If this really WERE the Universal Soldier.. besides the fact that your irish accent is nicer than Van Dammes or Lundgrens ha! what would you do bout exactly such a bigger and badder opponent?? Ahh have I put you into a corner?? Ha! but only cos I know you are good for it..
> 
> Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
> Jenna


Jenna, hehe, you're a class act all the way! How would I deal with the Universal Soldier? Er... Let me see, running's no good, he'd only chase me down; direct attack would probably leave me with one arm less. Tricky. Maybe I'd challenge him to ultimate-stakes chess and hope he'd not been programmed for it, hehe. 

Seriously, to the question: when does one move against such an opponent? Well first of all, if you're pinned in a room, in a corner, against a wall, that's a fairly clear indication that his intentions are *not* in your favour. From right there you will want to be ready to go. And at that point, *as soon as* he even attempts to move you will want to be connect so fast you can even capture the momentum in his *intent* - you know the drill! And you know yourself Jenna, it doesn't matter how big he is: all joints no matter how frail and sinuous or layered in muscle, are mechanically identical and all bodies have their own center of gravity outside of which there's no balance. I know you know this and so I'm contemplating whether you're asking me something else? I mean, the fact of his overwhelming size or malicious intent is pertinent certainly but shouldn't affect your response. As has been said very eloquently already, if you're focussed on these intangible aspects you may miss your physical cue. So he's big, so what: he'll make a louder crunch on impact with the concrete; so he's got some crazed intent, but that's irrelevant if he can't actually get *at* you, you know all this Jenna - I think you're toying with me, hehe. 

The only other factors are the unforseen; the spanners in the works. And these are what the mindful practitioners such as you and your own folk train "outside the box" for - the fact that off the mats, things aren't nearly as clean and textbook-like as on them. Folk wear jewelry, watches and rings so there are fewer clean grabs, shoes are harder to spin around in than conditioned bare feet, there are no tables, chairs, kerbs and obstacles on the mats etc. etc. but all these can be turned to advantage as Rich Parsons has said - I know all too well of a case whereby an aggressor was put down hard using his own curb necklace [yellow metal, I wouldn't say _gold_, hehe]. That being yet another case of application of the fabled lateral thinking and adaptability, I guess.

Go on, ask me another, hehe.

Respects!


----------



## Dark (Jun 21, 2006)

All this talk about the Big-Bad aggressor has ignored one fact, the law of agression (my essay in another forum). They have to attack and mostly its a matter of fear, the fear of being procieved as weak. You have already won before you are ever attacked, you are a target simply because if they attack you then they are not the victem anymore.
   The thing is, these types of people are "mad dogs" that need to be put down. If you win the assault they will keep coming back until you lose, or worse yet come at you from behind with a baseball bat or out of a dark corner with a shot gun. What you are discribing is a demented sadist with some self-esteem issues. The Legal stuff and society's views aside, these people don't need a hug they need 12 gauge between the eyes. In the street, someone like this will be made into an example, they will be crippled up so badly they can not retaliate and maimed to the point they will serve as a warning to others. There are always the guys out there who will attack to prove themselves, and unfortuantely martial artists are magor targets for these people, and there are quite a few men and women who have fought their way up from the streets who will gut these Big-Bad types in a shopping mall at high noon just so any others who think going after their family will think twice.


----------



## Phadrus00 (Jun 21, 2006)

Jenna said:
			
		

> Hey Rob ya big Poet Warrior.. you are too kind and flattering me.. now stop that and answer this question, ha!


 
Hehehehehehehe... allright, allright...  *grin*

So to answer your Questions:



			
				Jenna said:
			
		

> Q: Are you willing to accept that I .. someone both bigger AND badder than you.. that I can exist?
> Q: If I exist.. what advantage can you POSSIBLY have over me?
> Q: If you have advantage over me then how will you use it? as I am telling you right here I want to take something from you that I do not think you want to give.. What are you gonna do bout it?


 
The answer to the first one is YES!  I assume this to be true whenever I train.  To think otherwise is foolhardy and arrogant.

Let me answer the last two together.  You have stated that my opponent is bigger, badder and better than I am.  More proficient in skills that I possess and with better attributes than I have (strength, speed, agility).  May I characterize him as an EXCELLENT Craftsman.  higly trained skills and capabilities.  How then can I defeat him?

Well allow me to digress into an analogy.  When you want to have a banister turned, or cabinets made, or a wall painted you turn to a Craftsman.  They have excellent skills and tools and are practiced in their trade.  They will do it effectively and efficiently.  But they cannot paint you a picture or carve out a scupture.

An Artist has many of the same skills as a Craftman.  they work in the same mediums and use the same tools.  But an Artist sees something that a Craftman does not.  The craftsman repeats what he has been taught with greater and great efficiency.  The Artist reaches into the Void and plucks from it something that did not exist before and gives it form and reality.

I train skills and tools that allow me to be effective, but I study the Martial Arts to be an Artist.  I am not bound to a set of techniques or patterns or skills.  I reach into the void and pull from it new things, new interpretations, new connections that I have never seen or been taught before as the circumstances require.  

That is the advantage of being a Martial ARTIST.  That is how I deal with the Bigger, Badder opponent when ALL the chips are down and I cannot retreat and I cannot let them pass.  I am going to reach into the void and find something very special for them so that their final words are:

"Never saw that one coming..."

Rob


----------



## evenflow1121 (Jun 21, 2006)

Jenna said:
			
		

> TO my eyes it is a plain fact.. I am bigger than you.. bigger AND stronger AND more physically experienced for what I am about to do.. Further.. I am plainly BADDER than you as I am PREPARED having NO great conscience nor sense of moral. And as I am going about my business with you I DO NOT CARE if I hurt you maim you or if you die at my hands.. as has happened previously and left no lasting mark on my body or mind..
> 
> Q: Are you willing to accept that I .. someone both bigger AND badder than you.. that I can exist? YES
> 
> ...


 

Moo!


----------



## Jenna (Jun 21, 2006)

Shirt Ripper said:
			
		

> I would say...you probably never met me than...Rambo syndrome...


Right on.. aint nobody bigger and badder than John Rambo... cept Rambo II obviously ... ha! LOL  Ahh my friend I can scarcely imagine what the symptoms of Rambo Syndrome must be... but I am imagining Bowie knives lots of trees and Karate-Kid-type bandana around the head LOL. Well Mr Rambo.. be careful.. there may still be bigger and badder than thou! 

Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna


----------



## Jenna (Jun 21, 2006)

Ric Flair said:
			
		

> Bigger? Badder? Than you?
> 
> What can you do but not play fair? I mean if he is bigger and badder than you, AND can fight....
> 
> ...


Hey Ric  thanks for this.. and can I ask if you happen to stop by again.. is there anything in such a situation you would class as TOO unfair or TOO "below the belt" as it were.. ?

Thank you 
Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna


----------



## Jenna (Jun 21, 2006)

Rich Parsons said:
			
		

> If it is just me. I run.
> 
> If the bigger badder person is beating someone smaller with no chance at all, I stand and try to distract to give them a chance to get away. (* Did this in San Diego once, so not just local stuff for me *)
> 
> ...


Hey big Rich  ya know I am blown away by all these tales and I will be honest and say were it anyone else I would be a little sceptical of the truth in it all.. but since it is YOU my friend... I take it on face value 

And you will not even countenance the idea that you can be beat.. and on the one hand I would say that was foolish or complacent and yet one of my favourite fighters from here and former world featherweight champ Prince Naseem Hamed had this exact mindset and which many slated him for as being cocky and arrogant but I think it goes hand in hand with self-belief and which is a phenomenal thing if you possess it.

And who I wonder was the "date" who would not leave until they seen you in "action"?? Am I understanding that properly? Is that like a groupie egging you on to pop someone?? wow! you move in some unusual and cool circles I will say!!

Anyway thank you again for sharing your experience .. and do NOT apologise I am interested to learn these things.. and it is great to have REAL experience to balance out and give grounds for the pure theory (never mind the plain ol hot air) we hear so much of...

Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna


----------



## Jenna (Jun 21, 2006)

pstarr said:
			
		

> Reminds me of the emblem of the Da-Dao Tui (Big Sword Unit) of the Chinese Army during WWII- Translated, it said (roughly):
> 
> "When we run out of ammunition we swing our rifles,
> When your rifles break, we use our swords,
> ...


Hey P  well I understand the message here and there is wisdom in the never-give-up mindset.. but is there not a point somewhere here where we should be saying.. I surrender.. ? Especially when everything they are trying here is apparently failing them??

Is there any circumstance under which surrender is the right thing or to our intuition is surrender a wholly BAD thing?

Thank you,
Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna


----------



## Jenna (Jun 21, 2006)

MartialIntent said:
			
		

> The only other factors are the unforseen; the spanners in the works. And these are what the mindful practitioners such as you and your own folk train "outside the box" for - the fact that off the mats, things aren't nearly as clean and textbook-like as on them. Folk wear jewelry, watches and rings so there are fewer clean grabs, shoes are harder to spin around in than conditioned bare feet, there are no tables, chairs, kerbs and obstacles on the mats etc. etc. but all these can be turned to advantage as Rich Parsons has said - I know all too well of a case whereby an aggressor was put down hard using his own curb necklace [yellow metal, I wouldn't say _gold_, hehe]. That being yet another case of application of the fabled lateral thinking and adaptability, I guess.
> 
> Go on, ask me another, hehe.
> 
> Respects!


Ahh you are very clever my lovely irish friend and I am sorry if I have you thinking all kinds of things outside of your box ha! but this is all to the good, yes? And you are right bout trying to emulate on the mats what it is like off them and the wris****ch example is a good one and also rings and jewellery which can be used to great advantage by clever aikidoka like your good self.. Oh and alas the latest model Universal Soldier plays chess.. also beat Kasparov .. or maybe I mean THUMPED Kasparov.. and so my tip for when you next run into one is to ensure you always got a piece of MC Escher art in your knapsack.. just throw that in his face and watch him put himself into a feedback loop trying to figure it out... LOL 

Be good,
Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna


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## Jenna (Jun 21, 2006)

Dark said:
			
		

> All this talk about the Big-Bad aggressor has ignored one fact, the law of agression (my essay in another forum). They have to attack and mostly its a matter of fear, the fear of being procieved as weak. You have already won before you are ever attacked, you are a target simply because if they attack you then they are not the victem anymore.
> The thing is, these types of people are "mad dogs" that need to be put down. If you win the assault they will keep coming back until you lose, or worse yet come at you from behind with a baseball bat or out of a dark corner with a shot gun.


Hey mister Dark  yes you are correct that there is always potential for further escalation of a situation.. even after it has apparently finished which is NOT a good thing..  and though your views are extreme and a little um...intense.. I appreciate what you are trying to say and thank you for raising the issue 

Be good,
Jenna


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## Jenna (Jun 21, 2006)

Phadrus00 said:
			
		

> That is the advantage of being a Martial ARTIST. That is how I deal with the Bigger, Badder opponent when ALL the chips are down and I cannot retreat and I cannot let them pass. I am going to reach into the void and find something very special for them so that their final words are:
> 
> "Never saw that one coming..."
> 
> Rob


Hey Rob.. well you surpass yourself  and which does not surprise me! and you are saying Artistry beats force and ignorance.. I like that and of course it is something we all believe in that study martial arts.. that our art will be our ultimate protector over the great "unwashed" ignorant brutes as it were.. Well now since you are plainly up to scratch.. I wonder if I could push you another little bit and ask... in this situation where both concepts are equally strong.. does artistry also beat INTENT?

Thank you
Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna


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## Jenna (Jun 21, 2006)

evenflow1121 said:
			
		

> Moo!


Hey there  Moo indeed... baaa some would say!  Tell me my friend.. what about the intent that this person has? Not only are they coming to take something from you but 1). they do not care what you THINK you can do to them and 2). they certainly do not care what might happen to you as you go about trying..

Are these factors at all? or can you rule them out by simply NOT focussing on them?

Thank you
Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna


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## Phadrus00 (Jun 21, 2006)

Jenna said:
			
		

> Hey Rob.. well you surpass yourself  and which does not surprise me! and you are saying Artistry beats force and ignorance.. I like that and of course it is something we all believe in that study martial arts.. that our art will be our ultimate protector over the great "unwashed" ignorant brutes as it were.. Well now since you are plainly up to scratch.. I wonder if I could push you another little bit and ask... in this situation where both concepts are equally strong.. does artistry also beat INTENT?


 
Jenna..

If Artistry is the shapeless void then is not Intent the Hot Knife of Ambition and Lust and Desire to Have and to Take?  I cannot resist but to imagine how O Sensei might consider this problem, how he might himself smile and look upon that very same Intent as the Paint with which to Express himself on the floor with.    Might not he let that Intent lead the opponent into a place of poor balance and then as gentle as a whisper tip them over?

I recall a moment some time ago when I was grappling with my Instructor.  He was certainly Better Than I and although I was stronger than he I was on the bottom and in a bad position and strength was no value to me.  He had a choke on me and I had tried everything that I knew to get him off but to no avail.  So we lay there, he with the choke on and me with a meager counter that let me trickle in a little air and blood to stay conscious.  I could not outlast him, I could not overpower him, but I did not wish to give up either.  I realized his weakness was his desire to win.  I released my counter move and laid out my arm on the opposite side on my body from him giving him an opportunity for an arm bar.  He took the bait, releasing his choke and leaping across to grab the attractive arm.  As he moved across me, I rose up and flipped him around into the exact reverse situation and successfully applied the same choke to him.

His weakness was his INTENT.  He wanted to win, I just wanted to survive.

Rob


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## Dark (Jun 21, 2006)

Jenna said:
			
		

> Hey mister Dark  yes you are correct that there is always potential for further escalation of a situation.. even after it has apparently finished which is NOT a good thing.. and though your views are extreme and a little um...intense.. I appreciate what you are trying to say and thank you for raising the issue
> 
> Be good,
> Jenna


 
This comes from experience, these big-bad types are all cowards. I've been in altercations with them before. If you send them to jail they just have a reason to come back at you, if you beat them once they have all the more to prove, if you make an example out of them there are 5 more waiting to take a shot at the "title." And if you think you can walk away, wait until they start discribing your lover, which is why I am glad I don't have kids. From personal experience from dealing with these types, you have to make an example, not just beat them but beat them so bad they have forget what planet they are on. And when they think you are done beat them again.

The reality of mankinds existance is that the monsters in this world all wear human flesh, and sometimes to protect your family you have to allow yourself to become a monster to stop a monster.


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## Rich Parsons (Jun 21, 2006)

Jenna said:
			
		

> Hey big Rich  ya know I am blown away by all these tales and I will be honest and say were it anyone else I would be a little sceptical of the truth in it all.. but since it is YOU my friend... I take it on face value
> 
> And you will not even countenance the idea that you can be beat.. and on the one hand I would say that was foolish or complacent and yet one of my favourite fighters from here and former world featherweight champ Prince Naseem Hamed had this exact mindset and which many slated him for as being cocky and arrogant but I think it goes hand in hand with self-belief and which is a phenomenal thing if you possess it.
> 
> ...



Jenna,

Some do not believe the stories either.  And that is ok. For I know there are others out there who have done more and worse than me, but they just do not talk about it or mention all the mistakes they have made. 

The groupie thing is a good reference, as some of the young women (* When I was a young man *)  thought it was cool to be the GF of a bouncer or to try to be nice to him to get away with getting in under age and such. 

As to arrogance and foolishness, it can be that. I know that anyone can touch me and hurt me. I respect that. I just know that I will not give up when it comes to survival. Hence why I run away or walk away or leave, almost always now. 

Be at peace Jenna


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## Jenna (Jun 22, 2006)

Phadrus00 said:
			
		

> His weakness was his INTENT. He wanted to win, I just wanted to survive.
> 
> Rob


Ahh now Rob if I did not know better I would say you were an aikidoka my clever friend 

When you started off "He had a choke on me and I had tried everything that I knew to get him off but to no avail...." I thought.. oh yeah.. I bet you are gonna tell me how you ended up tearing off his head shoving it on his neck backwards... but with regard to this last statement of yours all I will say is.. I AM impressed! and if you really practice that sentiment.. you ARE as good as I give you credit for.

Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna


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## Jenna (Jun 22, 2006)

Dark said:
			
		

> The reality of mankinds existance is that the monsters in this world all wear human flesh, and sometimes to protect your family you have to allow yourself to become a monster to stop a monster.


Hey mister Dark  I will admit I maybe did not give you DUE credit previously though it is just because I thought your approach to be intense and a little extreme perhaps for me but I will say you are definitely clever in your way and there is a certain wisdom in what you say and so thank you again for sharing your experiences 

Be good,
Jenna


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## Jenna (Jun 22, 2006)

Rich Parsons said:
			
		

> Jenna,
> 
> Some do not believe the stories either.  And that is ok. For I know there are others out there who have done more and worse than me, but they just do not talk about it or mention all the mistakes they have made.
> 
> ...


Thank you again big Rich  well -I- believe ya.. and so there is wisdom with maturity after all?  ah but no matter..  I want you to know I value your REAL LIFE MA experiences a lot and thank you for your input and especially your consideration. and ME? at PEACE? pffft.. maybe ONE day the waves will subdue themselves 

Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna


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## pstarr (Jun 22, 2006)

Remember that O'Sensei once said that, "Aikido is 90% atemi..."  Learn some effective striking techniques and develop them.  Then learn to combine them with the standard aikido techniques-


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## evenflow1121 (Jun 22, 2006)

Jenna said:
			
		

> Hey there  Moo indeed... baaa some would say!  Tell me my friend.. what about the intent that this person has? Not only are they coming to take something from you but 1). they do not care what you THINK you can do to them and 2). they certainly do not care what might happen to you as you go about trying..
> 
> Are these factors at all? or can you rule them out by simply NOT focussing on them?
> 
> ...



Hey Jenna, I think you are best to rule them out, think about it; you get into a fight out in the middle of the street, with someone you do not even know.  Automatically this person can care less what happens to him/her, ie-- get arrested, whether you are packing something, whether you can seriously hurt them, and if they care less what can happen to him or her, they certainly can care even less what happens to you.  Thus, in any altercation that I have ever been involved in , and I try to mind my own business so I ve never started them, I guess I already view my opponent as the kind of individual that could careless what I can do to them or what they can do to me.  So I just try not to focus on that factor, and I simply try to focus on the fight itself.


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## Hand Sword (Jun 23, 2006)

Good Idea!


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## Jenna (Jun 23, 2006)

evenflow1121 said:
			
		

> Thus, in any altercation that I have ever been involved in , and I try to mind my own business so I ve never started them


Hey evenflow my friend  I know I am taking your comment here out of context but I found it really interesting with regard to this question... you say you try to mind your own business meaning you do not go looking for a fight and keep yourself to yourself.. but I think regarding a bigger badder opponent as you rightly say you try to ignore those factors and just fight your fight.. and I think what sums that up is that DURING the altercation itself you "mind your own business" meaning you pay no attention to how "bad" your opponent is but just do your thing.. I like that and I think it is great how we have narrowed it down to concepts! Thank you!

Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna


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## terryl965 (Jun 23, 2006)

Hey Jenna here is a realistic statistic for yea, the more bigger and badder scenerio you post about is flawed to the queit and little wimpy guy who just gets tired of everybody picking on him, to me he is far more dangerous than that big and bad *** guy in your post. What do you do when the other comes after you?
Terry


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## John Brewer (Jun 23, 2006)

I'm 5'7" 165 lbs. and pretty laid back, so when it comes to the point where my family, somone unable to defend themselves or myself are in immediate danger I say:

Strike First
Strike Hard 
Strike Often

I do not wish to harm anyone, even the person you describe. I only trust in the knowledge passed on to me by my instructors and the amount of training I put in. When it is safe to leave I will.


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## Blotan Hunka (Jun 23, 2006)

Jenna said:
			
		

> Q: If I exist.. what advantage can you POSSIBLY have over me?


 
Look at my sig line.


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## Jenna (Jun 23, 2006)

terryl965 said:
			
		

> Hey Jenna here is a realistic statistic for yea, the more bigger and badder scenerio you post about is flawed to the queit and little wimpy guy who just gets tired of everybody picking on him, to me he is far more dangerous than that big and bad *** guy in your post. What do you do when the other comes after you?
> Terry


Hey Terry my expert friend  well I am interested in this and I wonder why you think the little wimpy guy is a thread to the bigger and badder who has no worries bout putting someone out for good... Does this not go against the grain of common sense?

Of course I am being devils advocate.. or maybe I am just biased being small myself and knowing what I can do.. but I would certainly be interested particularly who YOU would be more concerned about.. the bigger badder or the little wimpy??

Thank you 

Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna


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## Jenna (Jun 23, 2006)

Crane557 said:
			
		

> I'm 5'7" 165 lbs. and pretty laid back, so when it comes to the point where my family, somone unable to defend themselves or myself are in immediate danger I say:
> 
> Strike First
> Strike Hard
> ...


Hello there my friend  thank you for this considered reply which shows you have thought about the eventuality .. if you have not already encountered it that is..  and I wonder how you reconcile the two ideas of striking hard fast and often with your desire not to harm anyone? Or are you saying you do not wish to harm anyone but you WILL if you have to?? In which case would there be any remorse after you have put this bigger badder intentioned individuals lights out for them?

Thank you for explaining this 

Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna


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## Ceicei (Jun 23, 2006)

Jenna said:
			
		

> Q: Are you willing to accept that I .. someone both bigger AND badder than you.. that I can exist?
> Q: If I exist.. what advantage can you POSSIBLY have over me?
> Q: If you have advantage over me then how will you use it? as I am telling you right here I want to take something from you that I do not think you want to give.. What are you gonna do bout it?



I know you exist.  I've met you.  If you dare approach me again, I will meet you eyeball to eyeball.  You've cornered me before.  You will *not* ever get that opportunity again.  It is best you leave me alone.  Should you make an attempt once more, I *will* shred you to bits and you will rue the day you made that decision.


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## terryl965 (Jun 23, 2006)

Jenna said:
			
		

> Hey Terry my expert friend  well I am interested in this and I wonder why you think the little wimpy guy is a thread to the bigger and badder who has no worries bout putting someone out for good... Does this not go against the grain of common sense?
> 
> Of course I am being devils advocate.. or maybe I am just biased being small myself and knowing what I can do.. but I would certainly be interested particularly who YOU would be more concerned about.. the bigger badder or the little wimpy??
> 
> ...


 
That is an easy question the little wimpy person, for him it is about getting to the point of actually killing you instead od betting you up.
Terry


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## Jenna (Jun 23, 2006)

Ceicei said:
			
		

> I know you exist. I've met you. If you dare approach me again, I will meet you eyeball to eyeball. You've cornered me before. You will *not* ever get that opportunity again. It is best you leave me alone. Should you make an attempt once more, I *will* shred you to bits and you will rue the day you made that decision.


But you are a mere woman. What could YOU possibly do?


~~~~~~~~~

YES Ceicei my friend  I am right with you here and you are welcome to come train with me anytime.. please tell me how you will handle this person.. Thank you 

Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna


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## Jenna (Jun 23, 2006)

terryl965 said:
			
		

> That is an easy question the little wimpy person, for him it is about getting to the point of actually killing you instead od betting you up.
> Terry


Hey Terry  I think I understand this but can I ask do you not see the little wimpy assailant and think.. I can take you anyday? He may be more dangerous by intent or commitment but physically he is less able, correct?

Yes I am being devils advocate again.. please forgive me for that.... 

Thank you,
Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna


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## Jenna (Jun 23, 2006)

terryl965 said:
			
		

> That is an easy question the little wimpy person, for him it is about getting to the point of actually killing you instead od betting you up.
> Terry


Hey Terry  I think I understand this but can I ask do you not see the little wimpy assailant and think.. I can take you anyday? He may be more dangerous by intent or commitment but physically he is less able, correct?

Yes I am being devils advocate again.... 

Thank you,
Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna


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## Ceicei (Jun 23, 2006)

Jenna said:
			
		

> But you are a mere woman. What could YOU possibly do?



Being a woman does not matter.  What I have is the will and stubborness. If leaving is not an option, I will fight with everything I've got.  If I die, then so be it, but I will not go willingly with you.  This is a mindset I've learned from prior experience.  


> YES Ceicei my friend  I am right with you here and you are welcome to come train with me anytime.. please tell me how you will handle this person.. Thank you
> 
> Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
> Jenna



Jenna, I'd love to train with you some day.  It is rare to get to train with other females and you are one of these I'd be more than anxious for this interesting opportunity.

- Ceicei


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## Jenna (Jun 23, 2006)

Ceicei said:
			
		

> Being a woman does not matter. What I have is the will and stubborness. If leaving is not an option, I will fight with everything I've got. If I die, then so be it, but I will not go willingly with you. This is a mindset I've learned from prior experience.
> 
> 
> Jenna, I'd love to train with you some day. It is rare to get to train with other females and you are one of these I'd be more than anxious for this interesting opportunity.
> ...


Ceicei my friend  thank you for this and I am inhabiting your training mindset exactly and I believe what you are saying is ONCE bitten.. and now you train up to and BEYOND your comfort parameters so that TWICE is not shy.. TWICE is doomsday for whomever thinks they can come try it.. thank you for this and yes you surely know I would LOVE to share notes with you anytime absolutely! 

Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna


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## John Brewer (Jun 23, 2006)

Jenna said:
			
		

> Hello there my friend  thank you for this considered reply which shows you have thought about the eventuality .. if you have not already encountered it that is..  and I wonder how you reconcile the two ideas of striking hard fast and often with your desire not to harm anyone? Or are you saying you do not wish to harm anyone but you WILL if you have to?? In which case would there be any remorse after you have put this bigger badder intentioned individuals lights out for them?
> 
> Thank you for explaining this
> 
> ...


Hi,
Yes you are right. Although I do not wish to harm, I will, if given no other option. I believe all have the right (including myself) to live without fear of the "bigger and the badder". But in this world we live in I am not so dissillusioned to think the eventuality of just such a situation is impossible. Yes I believe I would have some remorse at the pain I caused, but not for my actions to defend. Fortunately I have not had to face this type of situation since I have begun training. Thank you for your thoughtful response.

John


----------



## terryl965 (Jun 23, 2006)

Jenna said:
			
		

> Hey Terry  I think I understand this but can I ask do you not see the little wimpy assailant and think.. I can take you anyday? He may be more dangerous by intent or commitment but physically he is less able, correct?
> 
> Yes I am being devils advocate again....
> 
> ...


 
The little wimpy guy will sit behin a tree and while I was walking gun me down he controls the stituation, your big bad bully will confront me and then I control the stituation with my vass knowledge of SD against some one like that.
Terry


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## tradrockrat (Jun 24, 2006)

Jenna said:
			
		

> TO my eyes it is a plain fact.. I am bigger than you.. bigger AND stronger AND more physically experienced for what I am about to do.. Further.. I am plainly BADDER than you as I am PREPARED having NO great conscience nor sense of moral. And as I am going about my business with you I DO NOT CARE if I hurt you maim you or if you die at my hands.. as has happened previously and left no lasting mark on my body or mind..
> 
> Q: Are you willing to accept that I .. someone both bigger AND badder than you.. that I can exist?
> Q: If I exist.. what advantage can you POSSIBLY have over me?
> Q: If you have advantage over me then how will you use it? as I am telling you right here I want to take something from you that I do not think you want to give.. What are you gonna do bout it?



OK - so you're Goliath and I'm... well... me.  Of course you exist - I've met you.

My advantage?  you just told me you're my enemy

How will I use it?  Depends, what exactly are you trying to take?  Can I live without it?  

yes - Then I'll inform the law after you take it.

no - *BANG* YOU'RE  DEAD!!!!!
 if it's life or death, there is no room for ego.  I'm not going to stand there and challenge you to a duel, I'm going to win and live.  you aint bullet proof (I hope)

of course - this assumes I have time to get the gun...  If not, my goal will be to leave a few marks that you apparently didn't get from the last guy.  self defense 101 - the biggest, baddest mo fo in the world can't fight you if he can't breath or walk to chase you - wound and run


but what I think you're looking for (though i have been wrong about this mind reading stuff before) is whether I  - and others - are aware that they can't win every fight straight up and are they willing to commit to the violence needed to survive this encounter if they are aware?

For me, the answer is yes - I absolutely garantee that there are too many people to count who would kick my butt in a straight straight up fight, but I am very aware and accepting of the truth that self defense is NOT a straight up fight - EVER.  It's about you surviving at all costs - even if that means goliath has to die.


----------



## Adept (Jun 24, 2006)

Ceicei said:
			
		

> Being a woman does not matter. What I have is the will and stubborness. If leaving is not an option, I will fight with everything I've got.



Just trying to play devils advocate here, but the question assumes you are attacked by someone who is larger and more physically capable, more motivated or aggresive, more experienced, and generally all round harder than a coffin nail.

Will and stubborness being your weapons assumes that you have more of these than your opponent, and you can't count on that.


----------



## Ceicei (Jun 24, 2006)

Adept said:
			
		

> Just trying to play devils advocate here, but the question assumes you are attacked by someone who is larger and more physically capable, more motivated or aggresive, more experienced, and generally all round harder than a coffin nail.
> 
> Will and stubborness being your weapons assumes that you have more of these than your opponent, and you can't count on that.



I have been attacked, not once, but twice before I picked up martial arts.  Whether I have more than what he has <shrug> remains to be seen; these ARE the weapons I DO have, so I will count on these attributes.  Most attackers pick those people they hope are compliant.  He is going to get more than he bargained for if he chooses to attack me.

Lest you misunderstand me, I have NO illusions of martial arts "saving" me nor of coming out on top victorious and unscathed.  I only know I will do what I need to do and I understand full well I will get hurt (and possibly die).  My goal is to stay alive and to minimize getting hurt.

- Ceicei


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## MA-Caver (Jun 28, 2006)

Jenna said:
			
		

> TO my eyes it is a plain fact.. I am bigger than you.. bigger AND stronger AND more physically experienced for what I am about to do.. Further.. I am plainly BADDER than you as I am PREPARED having NO great conscience nor sense of moral. And as I am going about my business with you I DO NOT CARE if I hurt you maim you or if you die at my hands.. as has happened previously and left no lasting mark on my body or mind..
> 
> Q: Are you willing to accept that I .. someone both bigger AND badder than you.. that I can exist?
> Q: If I exist.. what advantage can you POSSIBLY have over me?
> ...



A person can be bigger and badder all they want to be... just stay the hell out of my face with it and leave mine (family/friends) alone and we'll get along fine. Because I just might *NOT* be in the mood for you to find out.


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## Hand Sword (Jun 28, 2006)

OOOOh YEAH!!!!!


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## tradrockrat (Jun 28, 2006)

you know what?  I just realized - Nobody offerd to buy the man a meal and just talk it out.  Maybe he's just missunderstood and needs a good friend to leand an ear...:idunno:




Can't we all just get along?


----------



## MA-Caver (Jun 28, 2006)

tradrockrat said:
			
		

> you know what?  I just realized - Nobody offerd to buy the man a meal and just talk it out.  Maybe he's just missunderstood and needs a good friend to leand an ear...:idunno:


I'd probably be the first one to do that if I perceived that is really the base of the guy's problem... and I'd like to think of myself as a very perceptive person... but if he's coming off to me (or mine) with an attitude of the biggest and baddest... I'm not having anything to do with him. 
I've made friends with big bad bikers before (through AA) but because they were docile and acting civilized around everybody. A guy throwing his weight around *acting* like he has bigger cojones than everyone else, has *no* place in my "circle" private or publically.


----------



## Dark (Jun 28, 2006)

MA-Caver said:
			
		

> I'd probably be the first one to do that if I perceived that is really the base of the guy's problem... and I'd like to think of myself as a very perceptive person... but if he's coming off to me (or mine) with an attitude of the biggest and baddest... I'm not having anything to do with him.
> I've made friends with big bad bikers before (through AA) but because they were docile and acting civilized around everybody. A guy throwing his weight around *acting* like he has bigger cojones than everyone else, has *no* place in my "circle" private or publically.


 
No he just needs tough love, basically beat him into submission and kindly explain where he went wrong :whip: The "Bad Dog" approach, it that doesn't work when he comes back and generally will, you beat him worse then before and call the cops, again...


----------



## Hand Sword (Jun 28, 2006)

YEP!


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## tradrockrat (Jun 29, 2006)

MA-Caver said:
			
		

> I've made friends with big bad bikers before (through AA) but because they were docile and acting civilized around everybody. A guy throwing his weight around *acting* like he has bigger cojones than everyone else, has *no* place in my "circle" private or publically.



Actually, as a biker I have to tell you, these types of guys wouldn't last long around bikers - they don't put up with that ****.  Most big bad bikers are pretty damn secure in themselves and not looking to make trouble - like the ones you met - so they don't want that *acting* type of guy around.

For example, just last weekend a guy got very violent in a bar that a biker I know was hanging out at.  The guy was warned several times to chill out,untill finally they had to throw him out.  The guy grabbed an icepick off the bar and stabbed my friend through the hand.  My friend tied him up and beat him right into the hospital - surgery on his destroyed elbow.

The kind of guy in this thread would never make it as a biker.


----------



## Dark (Jun 29, 2006)

It goes with that old saying "if you say your a bad ***, you aren't..."


----------



## MA-Caver (Jun 29, 2006)

tradrockrat said:
			
		

> Actually, as a biker I have to tell you, these types of guys wouldn't last long around bikers - they don't put up with that ****.  Most big bad bikers are pretty damn secure in themselves and not looking to make trouble - like the ones you met - so they don't want that *acting* type of guy around.
> 
> For example, just last weekend a guy got very violent in a bar that a biker I know was hanging out at.  The guy was warned several times to chill out,untill finally they had to throw him out.  The guy grabbed an icepick off the bar and stabbed my friend through the hand.  My friend tied him up and beat him right into the hospital - surgery on his destroyed elbow.
> 
> The kind of guy in this thread would never make it as a biker.



So you've never known a reformed biker? One that decided that kind of life-style was just too much, that it was going to kill him someday? What about BACA? Or the 12th Chapters (based in Dallas)? You want to tell them that they're a bunch saps, that only pretended to get the tattoos and heavy harleys and just dress the talk instead of ever having walked the walk. 

I'm not trying to challenge you, but I have and do know these guys. 
Something got into their heads (or their hearts) to straighten up and live clean or lie six feet under (if they were lucky not to be rotting behind some sand-dune just off Hwy. 50 or some other lonely place like that). 
These guys realized (like I did) that death was our only answer if we didn't quit living the way we were. I was never a biker, but I hung around with enough of them to know what I do know. People that I hang out with now are 180 degrees from the types that I used to "play-with". 

But the ones that turned around became good friends, but they're no less tough just because they don't pour alcohol or crap into their systems anymore. They don't hang out where they used or the people, because they know they're only a drink or a tab away from going right back where they were before (same goes for me). They've only "gone soft" on the inside. On the outside you wouldn't know the difference except for the patches on the back of their jackets and vests. They're good men (and women), one and all and I respect them all the more because I went through the same thing. The toughest thing this side of hell; getting clean and sober. And if you ask me that just made them tougher and harder men and women than they ever were before. 

Peace :asian:


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## MartialIntent (Jun 29, 2006)

Dark said:
			
		

> It goes with that old saying "if you say your a bad ***, you aren't..."


Though I haven't heard that as an adage, I know what you mean. I'd have to say however, where I'm from at least, that I've encountered some folk who did indeed claim to be badass mofos and did _indeed_ have the intent and the remorselessness to do all kinds of things that only "true" badasses would. 

Of course there are also an increasing number of "secret" knife carriers carrying for _offense_ not defense who I'd definitely class under the above "saying" but the only point I'm making is that there are perhaps exceptions to this.

Respects!


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## Dark (Jun 29, 2006)

Most guys who advertise the "bad *** image" are trying to establish dominance, like a pack of dogs. That doesn't say they wont do scary stuff to people, but there are just some people you don't want to tangle with.

Example:
From my younger days I was wittness to a group of so called "tough guys" trying to establish there dominance but basically bully people around. I also watched a real "bad ***" draw a knife stab two of the three and calmly carry his groceries to his car and drive away like nothing happened.

My definition of a bad *** may be different then yours, I don't know. But in a nut shell if you have (a) talk trash or (b) use violence to establish dominance you are not a bad ***. I define a bad *** as a person who will calmly and methodically harm you without need to prove themselves to others in a mock social order.


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## MA-Caver (Jun 29, 2006)

Dark said:
			
		

> <snip> I define a bad *** as a person who will calmly and methodically harm you without need to prove themselves to others in a mock social order.


Good definition.


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## tradrockrat (Jun 30, 2006)

MA-Caver said:
			
		

> So you've never known a reformed biker? One that decided that kind of life-style was just too much, that it was going to kill him someday? What about BACA? Or the 12th Chapters (based in Dallas)? You want to tell them that they're a bunch saps, that only pretended to get the tattoos and heavy harleys and just dress the talk instead of ever having walked the walk.
> 
> I'm not trying to challenge you, but I have and do know these guys.
> Something got into their heads (or their hearts) to straighten up and live clean or lie six feet under (if they were lucky not to be rotting behind some sand-dune just off Hwy. 50 or some other lonely place like that).
> ...



I think you may have read way more into my post than was there.  I think we are agreeing on the basic concept - bikers, "reformed" (BTW, I hate that word) or otherwise are NOT the kind of guys that run around talking crap.  They just live it.  I don't think ANY of them have gone soft, nor did I imply it.  In fact, just the opposite. It's the "badass" we're discussing in the thread that wouldn't make it long around bikers - not clean and sober bikers (I mean, by definition, they're all bikers, right?)

I know several sober bikers - they're not reformed, they've just chosen a different path.  That's all good to me.  They weren't acting civilized - they are civilized, and so are most other bikers as well.

Perhaps my post was unclear - I meant to state that the guys you know are the quiet "living the life" guys that *wouldn't* take any crap from the "I'm Godzilla and you're all Tokyo" guys.  I appologize for the confusion.

To close - I've hung at clubhouses of several MC's and There are very few places safer to be than at a MC clubhouse if you've been invited there, whether they are 1%'rs or Soldiers for Jesus.  JMHO - but they are some of the best people in the world.


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## MA-Caver (Jun 30, 2006)

tradrockrat said:
			
		

> I think you may have read way more into my post than was there.  I think we are agreeing on the basic concept - bikers, "reformed" (BTW, I hate that word) or otherwise are NOT the kind of guys that run around talking crap.  They just live it.  I don't think ANY of them have gone soft, nor did I imply it.  In fact, just the opposite. It's the "badass" we're discussing in the thread that wouldn't make it long around bikers - not clean and sober bikers (I mean, by definition, they're all bikers, right?)
> 
> I know several sober bikers - they're not reformed, they've just chosen a different path.  That's all good to me.  They weren't acting civilized - they are civilized, and so are most other bikers as well.
> 
> ...



Ya, actually you're right, I misread/misinterpreted what you were saying and took it defensively. My loyalty to them misguided my interpretation of what you were saying in reply to my inital post. Those guys, tough as they could be were good friends (both pre and post soberiety). 
I was chatting with a friend (also a MT member) about it and they pointed out my error. We just agreed differently on the exact same thing. I was the one who didn't see it. So my bad. Peace :asian: 

I had a good laugh with your analogy of the "Godzilla/Tokyo" type characters... pretty apt description of those guys. Morons with muscles. The ones that give (real) bikers a bad name.


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## Last Fearner (Jul 1, 2006)

Hello Jenna! I am once again enjoying your playful provocation, and creative scenarios. Please excuse me for a moment while I talk to this "Mr. Big and Bad." :wink: 



			
				Mr. B&B said:
			
		

> TO my eyes it is a plain fact.. I am bigger than you.. bigger AND stronger AND more physically experienced for what I am about to do..


Hello, sir. Foolish of you to announce your intentions, but let's address the important issues. Ok, if you are physically bigger, and stronger than I, there is no disagreement, but if you think that size, and strength are an advantage, then you obviously do not know the Martial Art, nor do you understand the laws of physics, and are sadly mistaken. Also, are you really more physically experienced than I? Perhaps not. 



			
				Mr. B&B said:
			
		

> Further.. I am plainly BADDER than you as I am PREPARED having NO great conscience nor sense of moral. And as I am going about my business with you I DO NOT CARE if I hurt you maim you or if you die at my hands..


I concede you are bigger, but not "Badder," for I am equally prepared to do anything, and everything, with no reservations nor hesitations, to defend my life. You can not exceed me in this fact, but only match me if you are telling the truth about yourself, and you do not cower when I proceed to thrash you. 
:whip: 



			
				Mr. B&B said:
			
		

> has happened previously and left no lasting mark on my body or mind..


There is a first time for everything! :ultracool 



			
				Mr. B&B said:
			
		

> Q: Are you willing to accept that I .. someone both bigger AND badder than you.. that I can exist?


There are many bigger, stronger, faster, etc., etc., but *not* Badder, simply because I can, and will, be as "bad" as you in everything you do. I can choose to walk away, or use methods of avoidance, but in defense of my life (and others) there are no rules.....
:readrules 
there is no "fair" and "unfair." I will do anything, with *no* limits, to prevent you from prevailing.



			
				Mr. B&B said:
			
		

> Q: If I exist.. what advantage can you POSSIBLY have over me?


First, in reality, I would not answer you this. Your ignorance of what I know is my first advantage. Rob (phadrus00) has said it beautifully with his insightful remarks about the craftsman and the "artist." You might be "excellent" Mr. Big & Bad, but I can create things you have never conceived of, and the element of surprise is to my advantage.
:jaws: 

Secondly, Rob has once again beat me to the point, he so well stated. Your "intent" is your weakness, and my advantage. Even if your arrogance is backed by skill, and limitless motivation with no morals, your desire to attack places you at a disadvantage. Anyone who has studied fencing, Swordsmanship, or the *Martial Art* should know this. The defender is protecting, and has physical balance and leverage, while the attacker is off balance (even for a moment), forceful, and extended in a weaker position. The attacker automatically sacrifices the advantage the moment they attack. It is for me to merely exploit this disadvantage.




			
				Mr. B&B said:
			
		

> Q: If you have advantage over me then how will you use it? as I am telling you right here I want to take something from you that I do not think you want to give.. What are you gonna do bout it?


 
What will I do.......? Nothing! I will let you defeat yourself. Your desire to take something, and to attack me without remorse places you on a course which you can not control. I will assist you down this path to self destruction. Your own size, strength, and motivation will work against you, and to my advantage.

~~



			
				Jenna said:
			
		

> .. *are YOU ready for bigger and badder than you*?


This is a good question, Jenna. There have been many excellent replies. For me, personally, I have had real world experience, and I know what I am capable of doing. I also know what my opponent is capable of doing. Mr. Big and Bad has three things for me to deal with. The Mind, the body, and the unknown factors. The mind controls the body. If he is beyond reason, or intimidation, I must either defeat his will, damage his brain (the control center), or destroy the body. I am physically trained and skilled to do all three of those as needed.  The unknown factors include the environment, terrain, and anything unforseen.  I must train, and be prepared to deal with anything that comes up.

As for Mr. Big's overwhelming size and strength, people of another planet could claim to be able to destroy our planet 10 times over, whereas we can destroy their planet twice over. The overkill has no bearing so long as you prevent their successful attack, and effect a successful strike of your own. For some, this means strike first, and that might work in some cases, but initiating the attack can also put you at a disadvantage. If you are capable of a avoiding, deflecting, or defending against their initial aggression, a well-timed, accurate, and powerful counter-attack is usually the safest, and most effective tactic.

Let them make their mistakes, and let someone else clean up the mess when you are done.
:snipe2: 

Last Fearner - -> normally, good guy :angel: ; under attack, bad to the bone! :flammad:


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## Andy Moynihan (Jul 1, 2006)

Jenna said:
			
		

> TO my eyes it is a plain fact.. I am bigger than you.. bigger AND stronger AND more physically experienced for what I am about to do..


 
You just keep right on thinking that.....that's right....continue your approach with your mental guard down just like that. Good. If you must force me to conclude this business this is what I want.:EG: 

You see, if you'd bothered to do your homework on me first you'd know that to you, a fight is an evil act to enjoy....to me, it's just business to be concluded. I won't bring my ego to a fight. I won't even bring my HUMANITY. 



			
				Jenna said:
			
		

> Further.. I am plainly BADDER than you as I am PREPARED having NO great conscience nor sense of moral.


 
Then for purposes relating to the business at hand, we have something in common.:EG: 



			
				Jenna said:
			
		

> And as I am going about my business with you I DO NOT CARE if I hurt you maim you or if you die at my hands.. as has happened previously and left no lasting mark on my body or mind....


 
Luck runs out QUICK, though---you start feeling good, and you step up to the table to gamble one last time, and the next thing you know......SNAKE EYES. And since you've just told me you've done this before, whereas I do not victimize innocent people, it's a fair bet that "the Force" is on my side and if so, my wasting you will simply be your "karma" if you're fool enough to commit to our present "transaction". 



			
				Jenna said:
			
		

> Q: Are you willing to accept that I .. someone both bigger AND badder than you.. that I can exist?


 
Most EVERY martial artist assumes their enemy will be somewhat quick, somewhat strong and somewhat intelligent--If you are slower, weaker, and dumber than me, I don't need ANY martial arts, I can just stiff-arm you on your *** and tell you to go home. most every *true* martial art has someone like you in mind, built right into their responses.



			
				Jenna said:
			
		

> Q: If I exist.. what advantage can you POSSIBLY have over me?


 
The one you just gave me for free--*you just convinced yourself I don't know how to fight and will be no threat to you*.:EG: 



			
				Jenna said:
			
		

> Q: If you have advantage over me then how will you use it? as I am telling you right here I want to take something from you that I do not think you want to give.. What are you gonna do bout it?


 
My advantage is already working against you before I've even taken a single physical action, and you've done it to yourself.

Come into my parlor said the spider to the fly. -vampfeed- 




			
				Jenna said:
			
		

> *are YOU ready for bigger and badder than you*?


 
Yep. Worse come to worst I have an honor guard into Valhalla anyway.:EG:


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## Street Brawler (Jul 1, 2006)

Jenna said:
			
		

> TO my eyes it is a plain fact.. I am bigger than you.. bigger AND stronger AND more physically experienced for what I am about to do.. Further.. I am plainly BADDER than you as I am PREPARED having NO great conscience nor sense of moral. And as I am going about my business with you I DO NOT CARE if I hurt you maim you or if you die at my hands.. as has happened previously and left no lasting mark on my body or mind..
> 
> Q: Are you willing to accept that I .. someone both bigger AND badder than you.. that I can exist?
> Q: If I exist.. what advantage can you POSSIBLY have over me?
> ...


 
Bigger. Badder. didn't get the point, can someone explain it more. If you mean that is there people bigger than me. Sure there are, but what does is it matter. Bigger opponents are the easy type. The hard ones are the experienced, fast fighters. (Akebono fought Royce Gracie. Guess who won? ).


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## Explorer (Jul 2, 2006)

Firstly, what is the 'thing' I don't want to part with?  If it's really just a 'thing' ... I give it to you and walk away.  I assume you are trying to take this 'thing' to start the fight.  'Things' are largely worthless, people matter.

Now if we're talking about the safety of innocent people (including myself) -- THEN it's time for a pre-emptive strike ... and not just one ... many, many, many ... using weapons of opportunity (including my forehead and teeth).  I must go from zero to ten (maybe even eleven!) faster than the 'badass'.  I have seen any number of pretend bad guys taken out just as their threats are leaving their mouths.  If they're talking, besides hyping themselves for the fight and trying to bait you into it, they're trying to intimidate you.  It's hard to be intimidating from the ground with a broken leg or missing ear (they're really easy to bite off, ask Mike Tyson).

Here's the real problem in my eyes; the bad guys friends.  Jerks like this travel in groups.  You must dispense with this guy as quickly as possible and be ready for his buddies to jump in immediately.  Watch your back ... sides ... front ... watch everything ... move your head as your field of vision will collapse during adrenal stress response.  Drop this guy, create space and run.  Call the cops when you're safe ... tell them what happened.  If you don't call the cops the bad guy probably will and your butt will be on the legal line.


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## spinkick (Jul 5, 2006)

Q: Are you willing to accept that I .. someone both bigger AND badder than you.. that I can exist? 
Q: If I exist.. what advantage can you POSSIBLY have over me?
Q: If you have advantage over me then how will you use it? as I am telling you right here I want to take something from you that I do not think you want to give.. What are you gonna do bout it?

Jenna

1. Yes I accept that there are deffinitly people "badder" then me,
2. I don't know anyone "bad" enough to take a bullet.
3. My only advantage Is that I would rather die in a pool of my own blood then live with that.  In essense I would be fighting for my life which would deffiniltly give me more drive then the "badder" person. Also I hit first ask questions later


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## searcher (Jul 5, 2006)

spinkick said:
			
		

> Also I hit first ask questions later


 
It is hard to kick the crap out of the little guy when the little guy hits you in the throat.

My only concern is the old saying of,"The bigger they are... The more bones they break."


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## Cruentus (Jul 5, 2006)

THought this would be interesting, fun, anf funny. We are talking about winning or losing the fight, so here are a few funny but somewhat true statements....



> 10 signs that someone is going to lose a fight&#8230;
> 
> 1. He declares that he studies a martial art. The more overblown the declaration, the worse the beating. So the guy who gets in the Karate stance, declares, &#8220;I am mandated by the government to tell you that I am a black belt and I know &#8220;pressure point fighting,&#8221; is probably destined to receive the worst beating you have ever seen.
> 
> ...


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## Rich Parsons (Jul 5, 2006)

Tulisan said:
			
		

> THought this would be interesting, fun, anf funny. We are talking about winning or losing the fight, so here are a few funny but somewhat true statements....





> 8. In an attempt to bark louder, the guy about to lose the fight blurts out very cliched and unreasonable threats; Ill hit you so hard your dead parents feel it! Ill push your face into the back of your skull! Ill rip out your eyes and show em to ya! just to name a few.



So, I shouldn't tell them that I plan to beat them up and when I am done with that I plan on skinning them and rubbing salt into the muscle?  :lol:


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## spinkick (Jul 6, 2006)

This is kind of turning into a funny thread so I have a story to tell.  I recall this one time when we were at this bar and I was Designated driver.  Well this woman I know is like a close friend of mine and she was a little drunk and we were all having a good time.  Well this big guy starts grabbing her butt and is basically being an all out jackass.  When I told him I didn't care what he did to the other women in the place but he better not touch her he proclaimed that he had just gotten out of the army and would kick my ***.  Further more he "knew Karate and ****".  Well I was working part time at a near by dojang at the time with a summer camp program for kids so My van was all karate'd out with stickers for promotion to the dojang.  Well I'm just laughing at this guy and then I get real quiet and im like ok.  Look I realise you'll kick my *** and everything but lets go outside so we dont ruin everyone elses good time.  He's hesitating me telling me I'm ****ing done for and hes gonna whip my *** So i start acting a little more crazy Come on man it will be fun lets go outside and do it.  so we're walking out the door and I go ohh man before you beat me to a pulp I feel as though Its only fair to warn you I teach martial arts for a living.  He called me a liar and the girl im with yells YOU DUMB SON OF A ***** DIDNT YOU SEE HIS KARATE VAN IN THE PARKING LOT! hahaha I've never seen someone dissapear that fast.  Just proof that psyching your opponent out is just as good as actually beating him to a pulp.


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## Kwai chang caine (Jul 20, 2006)

The bigger they are the harder they fall.


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## casper12 (Jul 20, 2006)

yes, theres always gonna be someone bigger and badder. our training teaches us how to not panic and maintain under every situation. always remember its mind over matter. i dont mean to get big headed but what u see the situation as in ur mind is what it is in reality. remember the bigger they are the harder they fall.


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## Devin (Jul 25, 2006)

"Q: If I exist.. what advantage can you POSSIBLY have over me?"
I have the stronger will to win, and while I will not have more fighting experience, I have many hours of training that you probably don't.

And...

I can run faster scared than you can angry.


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## Andy Moynihan (Jul 26, 2006)

Devin said:
			
		

> "
> I can run faster scared than you can angry.


 
"Dude, I've run away from WAY bigger guys than him...."


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## Jonathan Randall (Jul 26, 2006)

As one of my instructors once said; "You can't trade punches with someone twice your size". Of course there are those you can't "fight" successfully, but Self-Defence is about FAR, FAR more than fighting. Avoidance first, Escape second, or, failing that, quick strikes to vulnerable areas is the key.

There are people without a day of training who could take my head off - and I began martial arts training in 1972 at the age of 5. However; I don't rely upon my ability to "slug it out" with neanderthals. My mind is my greatest weapon - followed by a sidekick to the shin or knees and a palm-heel strike...

Of all the RBSD folks out there, Geoff Thompson seems, IMO, to have the best information on this scenario.


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