# LEOs and Armed Citizens: The Citizen's Perspective



## KenpoTex (Jan 12, 2010)

This is one of two threads that I'm starting to discuss the topic of the interaction between armed citizens and law-enforcement officers.  The other thread is located here: LINK
 
This is a topic that has come up in several threads recently and I think a general discussion of the topic (isolated from any specific incident) will prove to be interesting.
For the purposes of this thread, "armed citizen" means a citizen who has a valid concealed-carry permit and is armed (legally) at the time of the contact

The topic of this thread is from the citizen's perspective.  In other words, how should the citizen act in the following general situations.

1.  When the citizen is the "target" of the contact.  This could be a traffic stop, a "stop" because the citizen meets the description of someone the officer is looking for, whatever.  Basically any situation where you have done something or it is suspected that you might have done something.  It should be noted that I'm only asking about situations in which whatever you did (traffic violation, etc.) does not make it illegal to be in possession of a firearm.

2.  When the citizen is not the "target" of the contact but is involved in some capacity.  Possible reasons for involvement could be that you are a witness to a crime, the victim of a crime, the person who initially called the police to file a complain, etc.  Basically, you are involved but not accused/suspected of any wrongdoing.

Discuss your thoughts on how you feel one should proceed in the above situations.  Obviously, some states have laws that mandate certain procedures.  However, I'm looking for what you think is the "correct" way to handle the situation independent of what the law may or may not say.  In other words if the law says you have to do "X" and you don't agree, explain why you feel the way you do.

LEOs, feel free to share your thoughts on how you would like/expect a citizen to conduct himself/herself for both general types of situations.  DO NOT get into how YOU handle such situations as that is the topic in the other thread.


Discuss...


----------



## sgtmac_46 (Jan 12, 2010)

I'll try to answer the question of what I would like to see a citizen do in the following situation.



KenpoTex said:


> 1.  When the citizen is the "target" of the contact.  This could be a traffic stop, a "stop" because the citizen meets the description of someone the officer is looking for, whatever.  Basically any situation where you have done something or it is suspected that you might have done something.  It should be noted that I'm only asking about situations in which whatever you did (traffic violation, etc.) does not make it illegal to be in possession of a firearm.



First of all, obey the state law on whether you are mandated to disclose whether you are armed.  And of course if you have a CCW card that doubles as your driver's license, he's probably going to ask.  But if it's not likely the officer is going to discover your gun on his own, i'm often of the opinion that if it's not an issue, it's not an issue.  Saying 'By the way, I have a gun' is kind of a conversation stopper.  That's a mixed bag of an answer, though, and the situation may vary.

In general, however, do like I always do when stopped........keep your hands on the wheel, unless retreiving documents, don't make a lot of lunging movements.  Follow any commands given.  If things require an explanation, keep them as short and concise as possible.  Brevity is the soul of whit.

If the officer wishes to remove the weapon and keep custody of it during the duration of the stop, don't argue or resist.  If he says he's going to take it with him, again, don't argue or resist, but instead contact a supervisor to discuss the issue further.

Generally, be cooperative.



KenpoTex said:


> 2.  When the citizen is not the "target" of the contact but is involved in some capacity.  Possible reasons for involvement could be that you are a witness to a crime, the victim of a crime, the person who initially called the police to file a complain, etc.  Basically, you are involved but not accused/suspected of any wrongdoing.



Again, the same as above.  In addition, if you know you are going to be in contact with the police, and it's feasible and safe to do so, put your weapon in a safe, secure place before they arrive.  Best not to buy any unnecessary discussion about it.


----------



## 50calray (Jan 14, 2010)

I've been stopped a few times while armed and without a CHL...in Texas our Castle law allows for traveling. Anyhow, the first thing I do is keep my hands in view at all times...usually on the wheel. When the officer approaches the vehicle I alert the office to the fact that I'm armed. They generally ask me do I have a CHL and I reply no, I'm just traveling. That is about the extent to that. The officer then switches to the reason I was pulled over and either issues me a citation or warning...generally a warning. I have never been asked to show the officer my firearm but I would have no problem with it. My goal is to make sure that the office is comfortable so everyone gets to go home when it's all over.


----------



## David43515 (Jan 14, 2010)

I hope this isn`t too terribly off topic, but armed or not I think it`s a good idea to keep both hands in sight on the top of the steering wheel when pulled over. I also turn on the dome light if it`s after dark, kill the engine, and place the keys on top of the dash.

I was always told that after domestic disputes, traffic stops are the most dangerous contacts LEOs have. So I try to do everything I can to make sure he can see the whole area and is a little more at ease when he approaches the vehichle.


----------

