# What do you think?



## Mon Mon (Mar 2, 2014)

http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/02/world/asia/china-railway-attack/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

What do you guys think about what can be said from an FMA point of view after reading this article?


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## billc (Mar 3, 2014)

From a FMA point of view...those people needed more guns on site more quickly to stop the attackers.  To think that unarmed and surprised people could deal with that level of armed aggression without firearms is really not realistic in any way.


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## Xue Sheng (Mar 3, 2014)

Can't give you an FMA POV (I'm a CMA guy) but I will say that my first thought after that was it might be good to know how to handle a stick well and maybe carrying an Expandable Baton the next time I'm in China might be a good idea.

The reality in China is that you will not be carrying a gun you can debate all you want but it becomes a discussion along the lines of "if the Titanic didn't hit the iceberg it wouldn't have sunk"...but it did hit the iceberg and it did sink so....., most police there do not even carry guns. It may have cut down on casualties if they did and if terrorist attacks continue they might. 

Another issue to take into account in China is that it is likely that the train station was incredibly crowded, think grand central at rush hour times 10. So I am not sure hos much a gun a stick or a knife will help you in the stampede that did and will happen. Knives appear to be the weapon of choice for physical attacks and terrorist attacks in China these days.


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## geezer (Mar 3, 2014)

I'm an FMA guy, and I'm not sure what you are asking.  If you are wondering if having  blade training would be a way to minimize the damage caused by this kind of terrorism, I'm doubtful. Ten or more guys with big knives and cleavers going berserk in a crowd? Imagine the ensueing panick. Whether they were using guns, knives, or bombs, many innocent people would be killed or hurt. 

Historically things like this happened in the Philippines too. Juramentados. Moro suicide terrorists swearing an oath to die for Allah and then rushing into a crown of infidels hacking as many to death as they could before dying themselves. One such berserker allegedly took six shots to the chest and still decapitatied a US Navy captain before finally falling down dead. Is FMA an answer to that? A more practical approach was what the US Marines did. They wore a leather collar, hence the name "leathernecks" and upped their gear from the Navy issue .38 revolver to the .45 auto. They also cut an "X" in their bullets from the tip back down to the brass casing, basically creating a mushrooming round or "dum-dum"  like the modern hollowpoint.


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## tshadowchaser (Mar 3, 2014)

I see no way anyone trained in any martial art would have prevented or made much of a difference in this situation.  You might have saved yourself or the person next to you if you saw what was happening ahead of time but to think you would  have made a difference on the whole scene is not real.
An attack like this is almost unstoppable the way it happened


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## Xue Sheng (Mar 3, 2014)

I was on a crowded sidewalk just outside of Tiantan park in Beijing, it was loaded with people and vendors. However there are not supposed to be vendors here, it is illegal, I was just walking through and I was about in the middle of it when the whole damn place exploded into a large mass of people running in all directions. Made me think of an old school western movie buffalo stampede in retrospect.

I was in such shock at the mass of humans jumping up and running I had no idea what the hell was going on and when it was over, I was the only person standing in the middle of the incredibly wide sidewalk. The only other person in site was a 5 foot tall female police officer on a bicycle; she was the cause of the stampede. 

I do not even want to think about what it would be like dealing with the mass hysteria that was going on at that train station the was much more crowded and confined than where I was and none of those people were trying to harm me.


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## clfsean (Mar 3, 2014)

I caught a train from Beijing to Zhengzhou when I was there & another from Luoyang to X'ian. The train stations are a mass of confusion on the best of days. An armed response with firearms would've possibly halted the mass attack initially as the knife wielders might would've had a moment of "Oh ****!!!" possibly at the first sound of gunfire. Riot gear at best would be response to manage this given close quarters & confines. China is truly a place of "Only Criminals & Police have guns" but not all police have guns & everybody has a knife. I saw plenty of traffic cops standing on their little podiums all over China with a radio only. I also saw military police in Beijing rolling out in a duece & half style truck, each in full body armor & toting AK variants & such.


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## oaktree (Mar 3, 2014)

billc said:


> From a FMA point of view...those people needed more guns on site more quickly to stop the attackers.  To think that unarmed and surprised people could deal with that level of armed aggression without firearms is really not realistic in any way.



Right and Tsunami victims should have been carrying surfboards with them.


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## billc (Mar 3, 2014)

Hmmm...considering the attack was eventually stopped by men with guns...and more than a few attacks here in the U.S. have been stopped by citizens with guns...I guess you could give the police and citizens surf boards in case of a tsunami...it would make getting onto the trains a little awkward though...


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## Xue Sheng (Mar 3, 2014)

clfsean said:


> . China is truly a place of "Only Criminals & Police have guns" but not all police have guns & everybody has a knife. I saw plenty of traffic cops standing on their little podiums all over China with a radio only. I also saw military police in Beijing rolling out in a duece & half style truck, each in full body armor & toting AK variants & such.



I saw both military and police marching around without guns, but I did also see military with their version of AKs as well and what is really interesting is my wife (from China) is deathly afraid of handguns to quote her at a friend of mines house who was an LEO after she saw his duty rig in his hall closet. "Hand guns are only for killing" and after that she could not get out of his house fast enough. But a rifle, shotgun or full auto machine gun are no problem at all.


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## EddieCyrax (Mar 4, 2014)

multiple unarmed assailants against a trained unarmed MA - survival unlikely
multiple assailants with knives against a trained unarmed MA - one dead MA
multiple crazed assailants with knives with intent to kill/mame anyone they see against a trained unarmed MA - one dead MA

I do not see where anyone could have made a difference without firearms here as there were multiple attackers (10) with the intent to kill and indifference to their own life.


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## billc (Mar 4, 2014)

> I do not see where anyone could have made a difference without firearms  here as there were multiple attackers (10) with the intent to kill and  indifference to their own life.



Which is why it is so important that we never give up our right to own and carry firearms for self-defense.  China never had the right, and other countries don't understand the consequences of not having that right...


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## Mon Mon (Mar 8, 2014)

Could one person negate this kind of attack that answer is of course not. Now could a trained martial artist have a slightly higher percentage of survival if they had the right mindset and spent time training and conditioning yes they might have a slightly higher chance of survival to escape and or evade.


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