# The XIVth ammendment?



## granfire (Oct 14, 2013)

http://www.newyorker.com/talk/comment/2013/10/21/131021taco_talk_hertzberg



> In the current imbroglio, Republicans threatened that, unless their  demands were met, they would (a) shut down most of the government and,  more alarmingly, (b) deny the Treasury the ability to borrow the money  it needs to pay expenses that Congress has already authorized. The first  threat was carried out on October 1st. As for the second, John Boehner,  the Speaker of the House, suddenly offered last Thursday to postpone  the deadline for carrying it outbut with conditions, and for a mere  five weeks. The new proposed deadline is November 22nd, the fiftieth  anniversary of the assassination of John F. Kennedy.
> The  ransom demands kept changing. At first, it was the Affordable Care Act:  in exchange for a few weeks of fiscal peace, repeal it; defund it;  delay it; dismember it. Then the price ballooned, with some two dozen  additional conservative fever dreams: plutocrat-friendly tax cuts,  Medicare means-testing, a green light for environmental depredations,  financial regulatory rollback, even the end of Internet neutrality. Then  it was immediate entitlement reform (meaning cuts in social  insurance) and tax reform (meaning lower rates for corporations and  the rich). We have to get _something_ out of this, one bewildered backbencher finally bleated, and I dont know what that even _is_.



Rather interesting assessment....


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## ballen0351 (Oct 14, 2013)

Pretty un-bias story :shrug:

Its funny how now that the Republicans dont want to raise the debt ceiling  they are wrong but when Obama voted twice not to raise it when he was in the Sen. that was being a good American.


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## granfire (Oct 14, 2013)

So you are all for bending the constitution into a prezel when it suits your agenda?

Interesting.....
I mean, you don't like it when 'the dems' play 'gun grabber' and look into gun control measures (name calling in politics...)
But when your club threatens millions of people plus the national and global economy....it's bias? 

I will try to fidnn the number of this young man I met Friday night: After having signed on the dotted line to defend his state with the option t be shipped overseas to actually die for the nation, he was send home from his guard drill, being broke to the point of not being able to pay his bills. His latefees and credit score damages are his, due to no fault of his own. 

After the Civil War this article in question was drafted, to ensure there would be no political game play with the money owed.

But for the life of me, I do not understand why anybody can defend these actions taken! Does Congress not take an oath to serve the nation and not primarily their own agenda? Right now they are a bigger threat to the nation than Al Quaida and the wayward domestic nutters combined!


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## ballen0351 (Oct 14, 2013)

Nope Im all for setting a budget and living with in it.  You know like I have to do.  We dont need to raise the debt ceiling to prevent defaulting on the loans, all we need to do is pay the interest payments on the loan for right now and start making spending cuts to cover the principal. Would our credit rating drop sure but maybe it should.  Borrowing money to pay for borrowed money is just BAD.  Do you take out loans to pay for other loan payments?  
But the point was the Dems dont get to cry now about being unfair when they do the same thing, and in 10 years from now when its the dems again refusing and the Republicans crying  Id say the same thing.

And Congress has passed 4 budgets so far to start finding all this and the Sen. and Obama have refused to vote on it


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## ballen0351 (Oct 14, 2013)

granfire said:


> I will try to fidnn the number of this young man I met Friday night: After having signed on the dotted line to defend his state with the option t be shipped overseas to actually die for the nation, he was send home from his guard drill, being broke to the point of not being able to pay his bills. His latefees and credit score damages are his, due to no fault of his own.



And if his credit is already bad due to a 10 day Got shutdown then yes it is his fault.  He hasnt even missed a National Guard payment.  Military pay is 1st and 15th of the month.  National Guard Gets paid once a month AFTER the drill weekend.  So If he was just sent home then he hasnt missed any pay yet.  So yeah sad story but grossly exaggerated


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## Makalakumu (Oct 14, 2013)

Anytime either party wants to shut down the government and stop some kind of expansion they don't want, I'm for it.  I hope the Dems take this card from the Reps playbook and they pass this thing back and forth regularly until the whole thing collapses.

opcorn:


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## granfire (Oct 14, 2013)

ballen0351 said:


> And if his credit is already bad due to a 10 day Got shutdown then yes it is his fault.  He hasnt even missed a National Guard payment.  Military pay is 1st and 15th of the month.  National Guard Gets paid once a month AFTER the drill weekend.  So If he was just sent home then he hasnt missed any pay yet.  So yeah sad story but grossly exaggerated



there is no drill there is no pay, yes, he will suffer for actions not his own. 
you are missing this part of the equation.

But I guess it's all good, it's your club acting like a toddler with a tantrum. 

You are missing the whole point: as someone who always points toward the _constitution_, you are carefully sidestepping the issue here: As per amendment of the constitution the actions of congress are - shockingly - unconstitutional. 

Not to mention they are riding roughshot over the nation, causing billions of dollars worth of damage on non-covernment people. Do explain to me where you think this is ok! 



> [h=2]Section 4.[/h]The validity of the public debt of the United  States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of  pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or  rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor  any state shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of  insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for  the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations  and claims shall be held illegal and void.


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## ballen0351 (Oct 14, 2013)

granfire said:


> there is no drill there is no pay, yes, he will suffer for actions not his own.
> you are missing this part of the equation.


U said he is already suffering.  Hes not he hasnt missed a single pay check yet. So his credit isnt messed up yet.  if it is its through his own poor bill paying habits.  


> But I guess it's all good, it's your club acting like a toddler with a tantrum.


Congress has passed a budget the Left has refused to accept it so its not my side throwing a tantrum.  Its not my side placing barricades around open air outdoor monuments in DC.  Its not my side.....................wait I voted for the Constitution party last election so neither is MY side lol


> You are missing the whole point: as someone who always points toward the _constitution_, you are carefully sidestepping the issue here: As per amendment of the constitution the actions of congress are - shockingly - unconstitutional.


Your missing the point all we need to do is pay the interest payment on the loans right now and we wont be in default.  We hae the money for that without raising the debt ceiling.  Then we set a real budget and make real cuts to afford to pay our debt.  Borrowing to pay for borrowed money will never ever work.


> Not to mention they are riding roughshot over the nation, causing billions of dollars worth of damage on non-covernment people. Do explain to me where you think this is ok!


Talk to Obama about it.  Congress has passed budgets......


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## ballen0351 (Oct 14, 2013)

Makalakumu said:


> Anytime either party wants to shut down the government and stop some kind of expansion they don't want, I'm for it.  I hope the Dems take this card from the Reps playbook and they pass this thing back and forth regularly until the whole thing collapses.
> 
> opcorn:



They have thats why this is so funny how quick Obama forgets how he did the same thing a few years ago


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## ballen0351 (Oct 14, 2013)

[h=5]Apparently  the president thinks he can furlough reality when talking about the  debt limit. To suggest that raising the debt limit doesn&#8217;t incur more  debt is laughably absurd. The very reason why you raise the debt limit  is so that you can incur more debt. Otherwise what&#8217;s the point?

 It&#8217;s also shameful to see him scaremongering the markets with his talk  of default. There is no way we can default if we follow the  Constitution. The Fourteenth Amendment, Section 4, requires that we  service our debt first. We currently collect more than enough tax  revenue to service our debt if we do that first. However, we don&#8217;t have  enough money to continue to finance our ever-growing federal government  (with our $17 trillion dollar national debt that has increased over 50%  since Obama took office). That&#8217;s why President Obama wants to increase  the debt limit. He doesn&#8217;t want to make  the tough decisions to rein in government spending. So, he&#8217;s  scaremongering the markets about default, just as he tries to  scaremonger our senior citizens about their Social Security, which, by  the way, is funded by the Social Security Trust Fund and is solvent  through 2038.

 It&#8217;s time for the president to be honest with the  American people for a change. Defaulting on our national debt is an  impeachable offense, and any attempt by President Obama to unilaterally  raise the debt limit without Congress is also an impeachable offense. A  default would also be a shameful lack of leadership, just as mindlessly  increasing our debt without trying to rein in spending is a betrayal of  our children and grandchildren who will be stuck with the bill.

 - Sarah Palin[/h]


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## arnisador (Oct 14, 2013)

ballen0351 said:


> *He doesn&#8217;t want to make  the tough decisions to rein in government spending. So, he&#8217;s  scaremongering the markets about default, just as he tries to  scaremonger our senior citizens about their Social Security, which, by  the way, is funded by the Social Security Trust Fund and is solvent
> *



...unless, of course, we've borrowed against it and owe it money, which makes it a debt...


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## granfire (Oct 14, 2013)

ballen0351 said:


> *Apparently  the president thinks he can furlough reality when talking about the  debt limit. To suggest that raising the debt limit doesn&#8217;t incur more  debt is laughably absurd. The very reason why you raise the debt limit  is so that you can incur more debt. Otherwise what&#8217;s the point?
> 
> It&#8217;s also shameful to see him scaremongering the markets with his talk  of default. There is no way we can default if we follow the  Constitution. The Fourteenth Amendment, Section 4, requires that we  service our debt first. We currently collect more than enough tax  revenue to service our debt if we do that first. However, we don&#8217;t have  enough money to continue to finance our ever-growing federal government  (with our $17 trillion dollar national debt that has increased over 50%  since Obama took office). That&#8217;s why President Obama wants to increase  the debt limit. He doesn&#8217;t want to make  the tough decisions to rein in government spending. So, he&#8217;s  scaremongering the markets about default, just as he tries to  scaremonger our senior citizens about their Social Security, which, by  the way, is funded by the Social Security Trust Fund and is solvent  through 2038.
> 
> ...



LOL, Sarah Palin?!
Why not Miley Cyrus! 

the dept incurred stems from a war started under W....under the flag of patriotism. Bleu blanc rouge screw job right there. 

However, you are biting down on partisanism like a terrier on an ankle.

it's not about partisan BS, it is about CONGRESS screwing people over.
Congress voted to shut government down.
Congress is taking it's own sweet time, screwing the nation in the process.


You have to love it, that the people in charge care so little for you and your neighbors that they
a) don't want you to have health insurance (and lets face it, it's still a top reason for people to go bust when they can't pay their medical bills, either with or without insurance...)
b) don't give a crap about national and international economy
c) don't see a thing wrong with people having no income while they throw their tantrum!

Impeachment?
hells yeah
but not the president.
every one of them SOBs who is not doing their job needs to be brought up on charges!

If I as a private person cause this kind of damage to a third party I ave to expect to pay for the losses. 
But I guess Orwell was right: some animals are more equal than others!


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## James Kovacich (Oct 14, 2013)

It dosent matter how many bills Congress passes. It's only good if they can pass something that actually has a chance to pass the Senate. The Senate has to do the same with the Congress. Nobody is innocent here. 

We need to stop letting "both" parties redraw the voting district lines. It's not far. The voting districts should be based on geography and nothing else. Until this happens we have to accept our ****ed up politicians and what they create.

Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk 2


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## ballen0351 (Oct 14, 2013)

arnisador said:


> ...unless, of course, we've borrowed against it and owe it money, which makes it a debt...


So pay the interest which we have money for.  Cut spending elsewhere to cover the debt like you and I need to do if we have debt.  We don't or at least shouldn't be borrowing money to make payments on borrower money that will eventually catch up to us


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## ballen0351 (Oct 14, 2013)

James Kovacich said:


> It dosent matter how many bills Congress passes. It's only good if they can pass something that actually has a chance to pass the Senate. The Senate has to do the same with the Congress. Nobody is innocent here.
> 
> We need to stop letting "both" parties redraw the voting district lines. It's not far. The voting districts should be based on geography and nothing else. Until this happens we have to accept our ****ed up politicians and what they create.
> 
> Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk 2


So then maybe the Sen should try talking to the house to come up with a budget that will pass.


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## ballen0351 (Oct 14, 2013)

granfire said:


> LOL, Sarah Palin?!
> Why not Miley Cyrus!


Meow Jealous much


> the dept incurred stems from a war started under W....under the flag of patriotism. Bleu blanc rouge screw job right there.


the wars that Obama has continued for his entire 2 terms and made threats to get us in more?  besides we have had a debt problem long before the war


> However, you are biting down on partisanism like a terrier on an ankle.
> 
> it's not about partisan BS, it is about CONGRESS screwing people over.
> Congress voted to shut government down.
> Congress is taking it's own sweet time, screwing the nation in the process.


Congress is doing what they were elected to do.  Congress has passed 4 budgets to restart the Govt


> You have to love it, that the people in charge care so little for you and your neighbors that they
> a) don't want you to have health insurance (and lets face it, it's still a top reason for people to go bust when they can't pay their medical bills, either with or without insurance...)


Who dosent want you to have health insurance?  most Americans already had health insurance without permission from Obama


> b) don't give a crap about national and international economy


A financially solvent US is best for the economy not one that creates debt to pay debt.


> c) don't see a thing wrong with people having no income while they throw their tantrum!


Well congress tried to give people back their income.  


> Impeachment?
> hells yeah
> but not the president.
> every one of them SOBs who is not doing their job needs to be brought up on charges!


And the presidents done his job?  If keeping WWII vets from their memorial is his job then ......well he even failed at that when they tore down his cute fence


> If I as a private person cause this kind of damage to a third party I ave to expect to pay for the losses.
> But I guess Orwell was right: some animals are more equal than others!


you act like this is a new thing


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## James Kovacich (Oct 14, 2013)

As long as we keep "pointing fingers" our country is only going to get more of the same. Our problems are deep. "Kicking the can down the road" isn't problem solving. 

Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk 2


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## granfire (Oct 14, 2013)

James Kovacich said:


> As long as we keep "pointing fingers" our country is only going to get more of the same. Our problems are deep. "Kicking the can down the road" isn't problem solving.
> 
> Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk 2



well, you point one finger, three point back at you.


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## ballen0351 (Oct 14, 2013)

James Kovacich said:


> As long as we keep "pointing fingers" our country is only going to get more of the same. Our problems are deep. "Kicking the can down the road" isn't problem solving.
> 
> Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk 2


Which is why we shouldn't raise the debt ceiling anymore.  Deal with the problems now.  If it means we loose our credit rating so be it.  Id rather deal with it now then pass it to our kids.


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## arnisador (Oct 15, 2013)

Dealing with it _now_, during a recession recovery, is bad economics. It should've been addressed during boom times.


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## ballen0351 (Oct 15, 2013)

arnisador said:


> Dealing with it _now_, during a recession recovery, is bad economics. It should've been addressed during boom times.



And borrowing money to pay for borrowed money is even worse economics.  No matter when it is boom or bust.


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## ballen0351 (Oct 15, 2013)

granfire said:


> well, you point one finger, three point back at you.



Not true.  My other three are curled up and pointing off to the side


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## granfire (Oct 15, 2013)

ballen0351 said:


> Not true.  My other three are curled up and pointing off to the side



have you ever considered becoming a lawyer?


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## arnisador (Oct 15, 2013)

ballen0351 said:


> And borrowing money to pay for borrowed money is even worse economics.  No matter when it is boom or bust.



Wrong. This is just wrong--it's basic economics.


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## ballen0351 (Oct 15, 2013)

arnisador said:


> Wrong. This is just wrong--it's basic economics.



So borrowing money to pay for borrowed money is a good thing huh?   OK if you say so.  How about you try it and see how well it works for you.


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## ballen0351 (Oct 15, 2013)

granfire said:


> have you ever considered becoming a lawyer?



Naa I'm better then most lawyers.  The finger thing is just true point at something and look at your hand.


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