# Help...armed robbery right next door...advice???



## Makalakumu

Hi Everyone

I slept in this morning, got up posted a little on MT, went down stairs worked out, got ready to take the dog for a walk, went outside and noticed six squads surrounding the neighbors house.  The crime scene investigation unit was on the scene and their were two canine units sweeping the neighborhood.  

Here's the story...

Lo and behold, shortly after my brother and I were coming back from my teacher's class two and a half hours away and walking into the door of our house (around 12:30), a perpetrator, armed with a crowbar, forced open the neighbors door and entered the house.  My neighbors, who are an elderly couple, were home at the time.  Doug came out of the room to confront the perpretrators and they hit him with the crowbar and fled the scene.

The good news is that both of them are okay.  Doug has a nasty cut above his eye and both of them are pretty scared, but the robbers left empty handed.

The bad news is manifold.  

We live on a corner street.  In the last six months, the houses across both streets have now been burglerized.  

There was a giant Meth bust in our town and this has skyrocketed demand, filling the streets with lots of desperate people.

And I know of several methheads that live near our house (and the cops know alot more then I do).

What can I do to make my house less of a target for these guys?  I have a dog who is very alert and we are armed in my house.  Our windows are new and our doors are new secure doors.  Would an alarm system be money well spent?  

I'm willing to try anything right now because I know that if that would have been me, I would have come downstairs with my gun and would probably have had to shoot someone.

And THAT scares the hell out of me...


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## blackxpress

Sounds to me like you're pretty well prepared.  I doubt if an alarm system would do you much good.  Might protect your valuables when you're away from home.  Might not.  Hopefully, you have adequate insurance to cover those losses anyway.  Your main concern is protecting life and limb if the methheads break in while you are home.  Again, sounds like you've got it covered.  Bad guy breaks in with crowbar.  Dog barks, wakes good guy (you) up.  Good guy caps bad guy.  Case closed.


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## Blotan Hunka

Some things I can think of. 

Harden all entry points; deadbolts, nails in the doorframe to prevent kick-ins, glassblock basement windows, wooden dowels in sliding/double hung windows. Alarm systems are not a cure all but they ARE a layer of defense. Cameras, wont stop burglars but will help catch them later. Record the serial numbers on all appropriate valuables. Keep an eye open for suspicious people and cars (and record them if possible) and call the cops on all suspicious behavior in your neighborhood.


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## bluemtn

I have to agree with what BH said, including the fact on alarm systems. No, they're not perfect, but they work well enough as a deterrent.  Update your insurance on your valuables, use a neighborhood "buddy system"-  with neighbors you know and trust well.  If you don't have many in there, ask friends to keep an eye on your house while you're away.  Timed lighting- while not fool proof-  is still somewhat good for those times away.  Door jams, window jams, etc. are a really good thing to have on hand.  Look at what kind of locks you have...


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## Carol

Unfortunately many robbers gain access to a home simply by ringing the doorbell and overpowering whomever comes to the door.

Advise your children to *never* respond to a doorbell or a knock at the door.  Install a video intercom system at *all* of your doors to the outside.   Do not open the door unless you clearly know who the person knocking is and why they are there.  

Also, be sure the house and lot are well lit with good exterior lighting. 

In some locales, installing prickly bushes under the first floor window can be a deterrent.  Its more of a deterrent in warmer weather but you may also find that your area sees more crime when it is warmer than when it is cold.

Hang in there and good luck


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## bushidomartialarts

Wow.  I'm glad your neighbors came through it okay.

On the home front, it looks like you're doing many of the right things.  The dog  is especially good -- there are a lot of people who'll walk into a gun but run from a dog.  Some people will poison or otherwise hurt a dog if they're intent on a burglary, but that's relatively rare from what I understand.

On a larger level, is there anything you can do to help with the decline of your neighborhood?  I don't mean walking the streets or any of that vigilante nonsense, but you can find out which city councilmen you need to pressure.  Maybe you can start a neighborhood watch or at least get some increased patrols.

Overall it sounds like you're doing right.  Good luck and stay safe.


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## Makalakumu

I researched something called Operation ID and this seems like a good idea.  This program records the serial numbers of your possessions and puts them in a database.  This database makes all of these possessions trackable back to you.  Further, I guess the stickers they give you have proven to be a deterrent because perps know that pawnshops won't take this stuff.  

Anyway, more information about this particular incident...I guess the guy broke in through the window and assaulted my neighbor immediately.  This is indicating to me that the bad guys around here are brazen and determined...


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## Makalakumu

bushidomartialarts said:


> On a larger level, is there anything you can do to help with the decline of your neighborhood? I don't mean walking the streets or any of that vigilante nonsense, but you can find out which city councilmen you need to pressure. Maybe you can start a neighborhood watch or at least get some increased patrols.


 
The main problem we are having up here right now is meth.  This drug and its users are pretty much responsible for 90% of our crimes.  I'm not sure what I can do about this other then, as an educator, try and deter kids away from this crap.

A friend of mine is head of the drug and gang task force up here and according to him, one of the "problems" in this case is that there recently was a very large "bust" in regards to meth.  The conspiracy that was netted in all this took a heck of a lot of bad guys off the streets.  This operation was so successful that it pretty much destroyed the distribution system in the city.  The end result is that supply took a major hit.

Unfortunately, the demand for the drug has skyrocketed.  The prices have gone through the roof and the addicts are becoming increasing desperate.  Our local LEOs are pretty overworked by all of this and they say that this is pretty typical following something like this.  The exception in this case was the size of this particular sting.  

Anyway, I'm not sure what I can do as a civilian, I'm just hoping to ride it out.


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## Sukerkin

It sounds as if you're doing all that you can, *Upnorth*.  Very good suggestions all round too.

I'm embarassed to say that I have very extreme views on drug addicts and the related crimes that arise from their 'condition'.  

Prision obviously doesn't deter and rehabilitation is largely an expensive waste of time (not for those it *does* work for, it is true).  Once an individual has repeatedly proved that they are a danger to their fellows and are not inclined to reform ...

Anyway that's veering off at a tangent.

The key points are to look out for your neighbours and don't become a prisioner in your own home, *Upnorth*.


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## Blotan Hunka

upnorthkyosa said:


> I researched something called Operation ID and this seems like a good idea. This program records the serial numbers of your possessions and puts them in a database. This database makes all of these possessions trackable back to you. Further, I guess the stickers they give you have proven to be a deterrent because perps know that pawnshops won't take this stuff.
> 
> Anyway, more information about this particular incident...I guess the guy broke in through the window and assaulted my neighbor immediately. This is indicating to me that the bad guys around here are brazen and determined...


 
Ive heard from cop friends that engraving your own serial numbers on stuff (made up strings of letters and numbers) can help too.


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## jks9199

Blotan Hunka said:


> Ive heard from cop friends that engraving your own serial numbers on stuff (made up strings of letters and numbers) can help too.


Absolutely; I'm going to use this one as a starting point.

NCIC - that National Criminal Information Center databases - is a great tool.  But, we can't enter an item without a unique descriptor, like a serial number or owner applied number.  (Imagine just how many "Westinghouse Blenders" there are...)  Record the serial numbers of your property, or affix/scribe a distinctive number/letter combination (initials & last four of your SSN are one common suggestion - though, today, I'd suggest the first 3 or 4, which aren't unique to you, except in combination with your initials or the last 4).

Have good locks and deadbolts, and use them.  Avoid advertising nice/expensive stuff.  For example, don't leave a laptop sitting in front of the window.  And, before you throw the boxes away, break 'em down and even bag 'em.  Nothing says "hit this house!" like the box from your brand new plasma TV and home theatre system sitting at the curb...

Never, ever, EVER hesitate to call in suspicious people in your neighborhood.  What's the absolute worst you'll do?  Keep a cop from writing a ticket when he meets your new neighbors right after they move in?  If there's something "more important", I guarantee that we'll be going to that, not a simple suspicious person complaint!

An alarm system isn't a bad idea, especially if it's a remotely monitored system that operates in conjunction with a local alarm.  At the very least, you'll know if someone breaks in.  And the sound of the local alarm may well scare them off.  Just keep it in repair...  

Regarding "secure doors."  The best, most impenetrable door is only as good as the door frame and wall around it.  I've seen people put impressive deadbolts in doors that are bordered by large, glass sidelights.  Guess what?  Unless you also replace the glass with something like bulletproof acrylic... You're deadbolt is silly.  There're plenty of places that you can look up the recommended throws, etc.


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## Brian R. VanCise

First and foremost I am really happy that your neighbor is okay.  That must have been an incredibly scary situation for that elderly couple.

Now onto your house.  Good locks, deadbolt, dog, alarm system, alarm system sign outside, sticker's, glass block basement windows, motion detector lights, etc.  The more deterents you have the better your chances that a criminal may just move on.  A neighborhood watch is also an excellent idea and can help provide feedback and empowerment to you and your neighbor's.  Generally the local police would be more than happy to meet with a neighborhood watch group and also give security tips for your homes.

It is always scary and tragic when something happens to someone you know and the best thing we can do besides comforting them is also to find as many ways to protect ourselves and our loved ones.

Good luck my friend.


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## Lisa

UpNorth you have been given really good advice.  One thing I didn't see being mentioned is whether or not there is a neighbourhood watch in your area.  Getting to know your neighbours and having them watch out for you and you do the same is a damn good idea.  You may not always be home, but hopefully one of your neighbours are.

Also, teach your dog to bark when someone comes to the door.  We encourage ours to do so.  It lets people know on the other side of the door that there is an animal in the house.  Too many people teach their animals to be quiet and scold them for barking.  Barking, IMO, is their job.

I am glad to here your neighbour is alright.  Let us know if you hear anything else.


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## exile

Lisa said:


> UpNorth you have been given really good advice.  One thing I didn't see being mentioned is whether or not there is a neighbourhood watch in your area.  Getting to know your neighbours and having them watch out for you and you do the same is a damn good idea.  You may not always be home, but hopefully one of your neighbours are.



UpNKy, what Lisa's talking about is probably the most important part of your defense strategy.

I've heard that the lowest crime neighborhoods are those in which people know each other really well _and look out for each other_. Old ethnic neighborhoods, where people's grandparents knew their neighbor's grandparents, are almost crime-free. The reason is that any anomaly, any bit of strangeness that might signal some bad intention, is observed by a thousand eyes and spotlighted instantly. Obviously, you can't can't recreate that situation in a neighborhood where it doesn't exist. But you can create a network of observers who will be aggressively obvious around the clock, if enough people are willing to get involved. Punk-addicts are very unlikely to want to take on an aroused, organized neighborhood which in the end can turn out to be better armed than they are. Better than locks or alarms, the visible presence of members of the community out on the street, night and day, is probably the best deterrent to crime there is.

What is it that McGruff says? `Don't get scared&#8212;get _organized_'.


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## Blotan Hunka

http://www.wikihow.com/Burglarproof-Your-Doors


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## tellner

Good advice so far. I'd like to add a couple things:


Exterior lights and landscaping that illuminate the approaches and don't allow for hiding places.
Get a second dog, preferably something with good watchdog instincts. I'm partial to German Shepherd. They're better at alerting you than any mechanical burglar alarm
Bars on windows or at least locking sashes
Better doors, solid core if possible
Get a good gun safe for important stuff that you can't put in a safe deposit box. This includes documents. Meth and identity theft are going hand in hand these days. It won't stop the bad guys, but it will slow them down a lot and require them to bring along a cutting torch, air hammer or similar.
Along those lines, cross-shred evey piece of paper that has personal or financial information before you throw it out.
Prepare a safe room with cell phone, really solid door and a bolt on the inside. Keep some specialized self defense tools there.
Never answer the door without something appropriate at or in hand. It's been a great comfort to me a couple times. And I've found that even when people don't understand "Get the **** off my porch!" the sound of a racking 1911 speaks burglar perfectly and without an accent.
Practice the mantra "I was afraid he was going to kill me officer. I didn't have any other choice."


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## Makalakumu

Okay, so I was assuming that this attack took place at night, but when all was said and done and all of the investigation teams had left, I went over to talk to my neighbors and found out that he was attacked IN THE MIDDLE OF THE DAY!  

Wow!  I'm a little naive...

Thanks for the advice.  The glass blocks in the basement isn't something I thought of, however, those windows have always bothered me.  That is a great solution for that problem.


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## Blotan Hunka

Always remember, weapons are only useful if you can access them. An unloaded gun locked in a safe in the back of your closet wont do you any good. Contrary to all gun safety rules but true nonetheless.


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## kidswarrior

No way I can add anything new to the security measures already suggested. A great response, and good to see the MT community rally around in this very unsettling time for you. Also glad you and the neighbors are OK (physically, anyway).

At the risk of sounding OT and silly, I would like to offer one additional option on a very small point you made early on. Believe you mentioned using a firearm in your home as a frightening prospect, and having been around/owned guns my whole life, and seen/handled the havoc they can do to the human body, think I really get this. So wanted to suggest thinking about a 'weapon' that can be either lethal or nonlethal, in that it offers you a range of responses/damage to an assailant. I personally like the hardened combat cane for this purpose, but also sometimes carry a shillelagh. You may even already have done some work with these in your study of the Korean MA. At any rate, a few simple moves can be very effective while not being necessarily lethal--although in a life and death struggle, you can make it lethal. Would offer a middle ground solution between a firearm and mere empty hands in the case of something like a crowbar attack.

Anyway, I know some may disagree and say always go with the guns. And it's certainly your life and your decision. But if you're looking for something that gives you options in how violently you respond, you may like the cane as I do. And you'd still have the firearms for situations that you knew required them.


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## Kacey

I really like the glass block windows idea for the basement too - and I'll be replacing the ones I have in a few years (**file idea in back of mind**) - it's not like I've ever opened one of them, and they'd be more water resistant, to boot.

The thing I've heard about alarms is not that the alarms themselves stop burglars - someone who really wants to rob you _specifically_ will find a way past the alarm - it's the "casual" burglar, who wants money and saleable goods who will avoid alarms, because there's always a house down the street that doesn't have alarms - that's the same reason why _loud_,_ protective_ dogs can be a deterrent - but they have to be trained to bark _before _a stranger comes in; after the burglar(s) is in the house, many dogs have been shot or poisoned, even if they _then_ become loud and protective.


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## Makalakumu

Blotan Hunka said:


> Always remember, weapons are only useful if you can access them. An unloaded gun locked in a safe in the back of your closet wont do you any good. Contrary to all gun safety rules but true nonetheless.


 
True, but I've got to balance this with some safety.  I've got two little kids and only one is superficially ready to start learning about firearms.  Any suggestions on quick access that is also going to be family friendly?

This wouldn't be as big of an issue if my kids (5 and 2) were older because I'd be able to teach them properly.  Heck, I come from a family of five boys and my parents always had guns around the house.  We grew up knowing what to do...


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## Andy Moynihan

Couple quick things you can do on the cheap and have in a matter of days:

http://www.defensedevices.com/doorstopalarm.html

http://budk.com/pull-string-alarm/p/XL109/c/2900/

And the cheapest head lamp I could find that has a red lens filter, if you already don't have a SureFire or other tactical flashlight with your gun--guaranteed to make you look ridiculous, but also guaranteed to keep both hands free and preserve your night vision if the light's knocked out:
http://www.actiongear.com/cgi-bin/t...adlamps, Lights&backto=/agcatalog/level3c.tam


Could add to your existing perimeter, not too expensive and you can have em at your door relatively fast.


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## Andy Moynihan

upnorthkyosa said:


> True, but I've got to balance this with some safety. I've got two little kids and only one is superficially ready to start learning about firearms. Any suggestions on quick access that is also going to be family friendly?


 

http://dsafe.stores.yahoo.net/gvmi.html


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## tellner

There are safes that can store a single gun but provide quick access via touchpad or key. The trick is keeping both away from the kids. If you try hiding the firearms from them in a "safe they'll never in a million years figure out where it is" place you can be guaranteed that they'll be playing with it by next week. :shrug: But there are alternatives. If you have kids you should probably have intruder drills the same way you have fire drills. For them it will mostly consist of "Get to the safe room and stay out of Ma and Da's fields of fire."


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## Blotan Hunka

tellner said:


> There are safes that can store a single gun but provide quick access via touchpad or key. The trick is keeping both away from the kids. If you try hiding the firearms from them in a "safe they'll never in a million years figure out where it is" place you can be guaranteed that they'll be playing with it by next week. :shrug: But there are alternatives. If you have kids you should probably have intruder drills the same way you have fire drills. For them it will mostly consist of "Get to the safe room and stay out of Ma and Da's fields of fire."


 
True. And to be honest I have had periods where I have increased my access level to weapons due to events in the area and then later locked them away out of all reach. While there is an argument for always being prepared 24/7, I see no problem with changing your defensive posture as the situation demands.


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## MJS

upnorthkyosa said:


> Hi Everyone
> 
> I slept in this morning, got up posted a little on MT, went down stairs worked out, got ready to take the dog for a walk, went outside and noticed six squads surrounding the neighbors house. The crime scene investigation unit was on the scene and their were two canine units sweeping the neighborhood.
> 
> Here's the story...
> 
> Lo and behold, shortly after my brother and I were coming back from my teacher's class two and a half hours away and walking into the door of our house (around 12:30), a perpetrator, armed with a crowbar, forced open the neighbors door and entered the house. My neighbors, who are an elderly couple, were home at the time. Doug came out of the room to confront the perpretrators and they hit him with the crowbar and fled the scene.
> 
> The good news is that both of them are okay. Doug has a nasty cut above his eye and both of them are pretty scared, but the robbers left empty handed.
> 
> The bad news is manifold.
> 
> We live on a corner street. In the last six months, the houses across both streets have now been burglerized.
> 
> There was a giant Meth bust in our town and this has skyrocketed demand, filling the streets with lots of desperate people.
> 
> And I know of several methheads that live near our house (and the cops know alot more then I do).
> 
> What can I do to make my house less of a target for these guys? I have a dog who is very alert and we are armed in my house. Our windows are new and our doors are new secure doors. Would an alarm system be money well spent?
> 
> I'm willing to try anything right now because I know that if that would have been me, I would have come downstairs with my gun and would probably have had to shoot someone.
> 
> And THAT scares the hell out of me...


 
If someone wants to get in, the fact is, most likely they will.  However, we can make it more difficult.  A criminal will most likely want an easier time, compared to a difficult time.  In other words...make sure the locks on the doors and windows are a good quality.  An alarm system is a good option.  Its something that will work not only when you're away, but also when you're home.  Given the increase in activity, requesting additional patrols from the PD may not be a bad idea.  Perhaps getting together with your neighbors and forming a watch group.  I'm not saying you have to get radios and patrol the neighborhood, but watch each others houses.  If someone happens to be looking out their window and spots a car driving slow thru the area that you've never seen before, pick up the phone and call the police.  Try to get as much detail as possible, ie: description of driver and passenger(s), plate, make/model of the vehicle, etc.  Not sure if they knew they were breaking into a house that was occupied, but when you're away, having your lights on timers may be a good idea as well.

Mike


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## Drac

MJS said:


> Try to get as much detail as possible, ie: description of driver and passenger(s), plate, make/model of the vehicle, etc.
> Mike


 
Well said MJS...A plate and direction of travel* HELPS...*If you cannot tell the make and model of a vehicle don't worry, the *COLOR *and type helps too..Big SUV,  smaller SUV, 2 door, 4 door, Van, Pickup  etc...etc...


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## Last Fearner

Lots of good advice given, but it is easy to get lost in the many suggestions, and not prioritize.  Law Enforcement Officers know their business (especially if they work in high crime districts), so heed their warnings.  This happens to be my field of expertise (former LEO, plus specialist in security industry and executive protection).

*First Option*:  If at all possible, I would consider moving from such a neighborhood, especially since you have young children to protect as well.

If moving is not an option, much of what you are going to do will depend on your budget.  Some suggestions seem to have you remodeling your house, and turning it into Fort Knox (fine if you have the money).

The first thing you want to consider is the *deterrent factor*.  As others have said, if you can make your home a *harder target*, criminals will likely move on.  To this end, consider the following:

*Priority 1:* *Alarm system*.  (I use the ADT system)  A professionally installed and monitored alarm system comes before any other defense because a good system will cover all bases, and is virtually impossible to defeat (especially for the dope crazed attic looking for drug money).  It works when you are asleep, awake, or away from home.  Contact sensors on every door and window (upper and lower floors), and area motion sensors in every room.

Control panels with panic buttons should be installed at each entrance, and in the Master Bedroom (a panel in your safe room if you create one).  The alarm system would have a loud siren at your residence, and call the monitoring company who will dispatch the police (or you can pay for an armed security service to respond in addition to police in case the police are busy).

*Priority 2:* *Signs*.  In addition to the alarm itself, one of the best deterrents are the yard signs, and window stickers.  Place them in every yard facing all directions, and in every ground floor window.  A potential criminal who sees these indicators will likely move on to the next house.  No criminal wants a noisy alarm going off as they are attempting to break in, nor do they want the police summoned by a monitored alarm system.

*Priority 3:* *Noise*.  Besides an alarm, a dog is an excellent deterrent because they hear things better than people.  Criminals do not like barking dogs drawing attention to their activities, and they don't like the idea of getting bitten by a big dog.  However, when you are not at home, your dog can be taken out of the equation without anyone knowing.  Another option, especially if you have a safe room, install a P.A. system with speakers on the outside of your house.  If you hear someone breaking in, or is already in your house, a loud booming voice shouting at them to "get out! The police are on the way!" will usually send them running.  Neighbors can hear it, which assists the neighborhood watch concept.

*Priority 4:* *Visibility*.  Most criminals do not like to be seen approaching a house, or while breaking in.  Keeping your property clear of objects, and shrubs where criminals can hide is essential (especially shrubs near the house).  Lighting all dark areas at night (motion sensor lights work wonders - I have them all around my house - but a front and rear porch light could stay on all night).  Interior lights on timers, and motion sensors help as well.

*Priority 5:* *Additional Patrols*.  This is a very effective method of making a target undesirable.  The more often a squad car passes an area at random times, criminals are reluctant to act in that neighborhood or choose that target.  However, police are often tied up with other calls, so another option is to have a professional security patrol drive by at various times.  This costs more money, but can be worth the investment to protect your family and property.  Perhaps a group of neighbors would be willing to share the cost.

*Moving Past Deterrence to Prevention*​ 
*Priority 6*.  *Preventing Entry*.  While deterring a criminal works in most cases, and the better you deter them, the less likely they will try, there are those that will attempt entry no matter what alarms go off, what signs you post, or how well lit your house is.  These criminals will pose as delivery people, mail carriers, meter readers, phone repair, or just casually stroll up to your door and kick it in hoping that no one notices at that moment (an alarm siren sounding at this point will usually scare them off).

However, preventing entry involves locks, gates on doors and windows, and even security shutters which hinge and lock, or roll up and down.  It depends on how far you want to go, and how much you have to invest.  Basement windows are best to be secured with bars that are very difficult to cut or remove quickly.  Again, if you can slow them down in gaining access, while an alarm goes off, and police are on the way, they might give up and flee.  Make it difficult for criminals to gain access to second stories by not providing objects near your house (ladders, trash cans, cars, antenna towers, etc) that they can climb.  Make second story windows secure, and use contact sensors with an alarm.

In addition to the good advice about not opening the door to anyone you don't know, be careful that there is not someone with a gun behind the person you do know.  Be sure there is not someone hiding around the corner or walking up behind you while you are unlocking your door to come home.  If repairman (electric, phone or gas company) come to your door, have a way they can show you their ID without you opening the door (remember that most of those security chains can be forced and broken relatively easily.  Don't rely on them.)  Call the utility company to verify any workman before letting them in.

*Priority 7.  Defense upon entry*.  If someone gains access to your home when you are away, try to have ways to identify this before you enter the house in case they are still there.  If criminals break in while you are there, self defense skills are important, and weapons can be useful, but the first priority should be to either flee out a back door, or go to a completely secure "safe room."  Protect yourself and your family first (get out), call police secondly, fight criminals as a last resort.  Keeping firearms safe from children is highly important.  You might never need them for a break-in, but it is not worth the risk if a child is killed because of them not being secure.

Have your most deadly weapons locked in a case, the case stored in a locked cabinet, and the ammo stored separately.  Besides trigger locks, guns can be purchased with a variety of safety features, including a digital combination to operate it.  Easy for owners to use, difficult for children, or if an intruder gets your gun.  For your primary defense, use less lethal weapons that are not likely to kill children if they get a hold of them.  In most cases, you should have time to gather your children to a safe place, and barricade yourself in before going for your firearms, unless you have quick and safe access to your gun.  There are a variety of non-lethal weapons that can be grabbed and used for quick defense in the mean time, and are less dangerous around kids.

*Priority 8: Recovery of stolen property*.  Property can be replaced, lives can not!  It is best not to resist unless absolutely necessary, but be prepared to fight with full lethal force.  If your children are safe, and you have the means to repel an unlawful entry, the do so from the start, but if you are caught with no weapons (except your body) and there is risk of loss of life, let the criminals take your valuables and go.  Right now, today, everyone should take inventory of all items of value in their house and car.  Make a list, copy it, and keep copies in safe places inside and outside your home (safe deposit box, or relatives house).  All expensive items should be engraved and marked for identification, and recorded accordingly.

*Additional note and reminder to everyone: If you haven't already done this in the past few months, make sure there is a working smoke detector in each main room of your house, and one near each bedroom.  Check the batteries today - right now!  If you don't have enough smoke detectors, get them today.  Keep a fire extinguisher in your kitchen for small fires.  Nothing robs you of your property and lives like an undetected fire.  Also, if you have an attached garage, get a carbon monoxide detector today!  Prevent the silent killer!  Make a note to ask your friends, neighbors, and relatives about these as well!*

Last Fearner


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## RBaddorf

If you get an alarm, make sure it has a duress code that you can set.  This is a code you put in that makes it look like the alarm is deactivated, but really sends a silent alarm.  This is in case you get jumped in your garage getting out of the car, or jumped as you are going in the door and the bad guys force up to "turn off" the alarm.  Also make sure it has a "night mode", this turns off the motion detectors like in "stay" mode, but sounds the alarm instantly when any door or window is opened.  The "stay" mode sounds the alarm after a 30 second delay.  This delay can make the difference of you being awake and armed, or still asleep when Mr. Bad Guy makes it into your bedroom.


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## Last Fearner

RBaddorf said:


> If you get an alarm, make sure it has a duress code that you can set. This is a code you put in that makes it look like the alarm is deactivated, but really sends a silent alarm.


 
This is very good advice!  There are many other options and features with different alarm systems and monitoring companies.  Whether you buy an inexpensive model (like from Radio Shack) or hire professionals to install them, shop around, and ask the pros what are the options.  Learn what is out there, and what is best for your price range.




RBaddorf said:


> The "stay" mode sounds the alarm after a 30 second delay. This delay can make the difference of you being awake and armed, or still asleep when Mr. Bad Guy makes it into your bedroom.


 
Actually, the "stay" mode will usually sound an alarm for entry/exit, perimeter doors and windows instantly (no delay).  When you are at home, or asleep, you want to be alerted immediately if someone breaks in, not give them 30 seconds before the alarm sounds.  The 30 second delay (sometimes longer) is used for your primary entry/exit doors when in the "away" mode (provided your alarm pad for disarming the alarm is inside the residence or business.  Some key pads or key locks are on the outside of the building to disarm the alarm before entry).

The delayed alarm allows you time to set the alarm, and exit your front or back door before the system arms itself.  Once you return home, the alarm will trigger when the door is opened (usually with a beeping sound), but will give you a 30 second delay to enter the code and disarm the system before the full alarm sounds and a message is sent to the monitoring company.

You can choose between hard-wired, or radio controlled key pads and sensors (door, window, motion, etc).  radio activated sensors might be a little bit more expensive, but they prevent the possibility of tampering with wires to open or close the loop.  Again, check with the professionals for all the options available (interior motion sensors are among the best because they can cover an entire room or hallway, and do not rely on the opening of a door or window.  Some burglars break windows and crawl in without opening the frame, thus you would need sensors on the glass, or sound sensors to detect loud noises, but the motion sensor covers the whole room (especially the 360 degree ceiling model).  The more sensors you install, the better the protection, but the higher the cost.  Usually, sensors on all ground floor doors, and area motion sensors in key locations is minimal.

CM D.J. Eisenhart


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## jks9199

Last Fearner said:


> Lots of good advice given, but it is easy to get lost in the many suggestions, and not prioritize.  Law Enforcement Officers know their business (especially if they work in high crime districts), so heed their warnings.  This happens to be my field of expertise (former LEO, plus specialist in security industry and executive protection).
> 
> *First Option*:  If at all possible, I would consider moving from such a neighborhood, especially since you have young children to protect as well.
> 
> If moving is not an option, much of what you are going to do will depend on your budget.  Some suggestions seem to have you remodeling your house, and turning it into Fort Knox (fine if you have the money).
> 
> The first thing you want to consider is the *deterrent factor*.  As others have said, if you can make your home a *harder target*, criminals will likely move on.  To this end, consider the following:



It's just a personal thing, but I consider moving to be an option of last resort, unless the neighborhood is so bad that there is no other real option.  I simply don't believe in ceding ground to the scum.  But I'm not saying that there's not a time to do so, either.



> *Priority 1:* *Alarm system*.  (I use the ADT system)  A professionally installed and monitored alarm system comes before any other defense because a good system will cover all bases, and is virtually impossible to defeat (especially for the dope crazed attic looking for drug money).  It works when you are asleep, awake, or away from home.  Contact sensors on every door and window (upper and lower floors), and area motion sensors in every room.
> 
> Control panels with panic buttons should be installed at each entrance, and in the Master Bedroom (a panel in your safe room if you create one).  The alarm system would have a loud siren at your residence, and call the monitoring company who will dispatch the police (or you can pay for an armed security service to respond in addition to police in case the police are busy).


Again -- personal opinion only.  But I've not been particularly impressed by either the response times or the professionalism of the small number of armed response companies I've come across in my area.  They don't have the authority to run hot to an alarm in VA; I do, if I can articulate why.  Like, say, an alarm call, followed by an actual call from the residence...  Which we have received.  (And should follow any unexplained alarm activation when you're home!)

On the topic of monitored alarms -- there are two side points I want to make.  First -- make 110% certain that the company has the CORRECT number for the police (and fire department, if you have monitored fire alarms) in your jurisdiction.  It's beyond annoying, and it needlessly delays response if they insist on calling the wrong people.  Second -- realize that there is a delay between the alarm sounding at your house, the company recieving the signal, and calling the cops.  This delay can be as much as 5 or 10 minutes sometimes!  If you're home, and your alarm sounds without an explanation -- call the cops yourself, too!  Not only does this get a second call (possibly faster!) -- but  you'll know if this is one of the rare cases where a burglar has cut the phone wires.  And you'll know it's time to grab a cell phone and call it in!

Finally, on alarms -- each company offers a different package, with different features.  Get the salesperson AND the installation techs to explain them to you, and make sure you know how YOUR alarm works.  And make sure they'll service it as part of the monitoring contract.  Nothing is more useless than an alarm that nobody turns on because it gives too many false alarms, or that doesn't work when it is turned on!  And many jurisdictions now are putting false alarm reduction ordinances in place; some of these mean that the cops won't respond after a certain number of false alarms in a given time frame (like 3 in a year), and others start fining the property owner...




> *Priority 4:* *Visibility*.  Most criminals do not like to be seen approaching a house, or while breaking in.  Keeping your property clear of objects, and shrubs where criminals can hide is essential (especially shrubs near the house).  Lighting all dark areas at night (motion sensor lights work wonders - I have them all around my house - but a front and rear porch light could stay on all night).  Interior lights on timers, and motion sensors help as well.


Criminals are like cockroaches... They hate lights!  I encourage a combination of motion sensors and lights that stay on.  And make sure your lovely landscaping efforts don't create shadows and places for crooks to hide and make entry!



> *Priority 5:* *Additional Patrols*.  This is a very effective method of making a target undesirable.  The more often a squad car passes an area at random times, criminals are reluctant to act in that neighborhood or choose that target.  However, police are often tied up with other calls, so another option is to have a professional security patrol drive by at various times.  This costs more money, but can be worth the investment to protect your family and property.  Perhaps a group of neighbors would be willing to share the cost.


Neighborhood watches are a great tool.  Even simply taking your cell phone with you when you walk the dog or go for a run is a good, proactive, "neighborly" approach; you become an informal neighborhood watch that way, especially since some communities today find it hard to muster enough people willing to formally become a neighborhood watch due to the time commitments required..  

Let me share a simple observation about  "extra patrol."   The sad truth is that most cops are probably not going to do a lot of "extra patrol" unless directed to do so by a supervisor, or there's a MAJOR problem in the area.  They've got other things to do... and a cop often won't see a good cost/benefit relationship unless they can target the patrol very effectively.


----------



## still learning

Hello, About guns?   A man shot and kill his own daughter when he got home, thinking a burgler was in the hallway closet, (his daughter was suppose to be at a friends house).  When she jump out to say Happy birthday!  He shot  and kill her with his gun.

Most people who own guns?  when the time comes to shoot someone in your house?  Cannot shoot the gun and it gets taken away by the bad guys who ends up shooting them back.  BE SURE you will have the guts to to KILL a person no matter the age?  could be in the dark too!

Best advice is to search professionals on home protections.  It may take more than one thing.  Example : better locks, alarms, camera's, a big dog,bars on lower windows, neighbor hood watch, Jet Li,,more lights, 24 guards, and all the advice from above!

Learn to verbal defense too! ....  (We offer verbal protection for as little as "free" or   get the book Verbal JUDO.)

...Aloha  - can mean BYE to the bad guy,  or hello this is my, gun...Aaa-lo-ha......pow!,pow! pow! (just kidding)


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## tellner

still learning said:


> Hello, About guns? A man shot and kill his own daughter when he got home, thinking a burgler was in the hallway closet, (his daughter was suppose to be at a friends house). When she jump out to say Happy birthday! He shot and kill her with his gun.


 
And I heard that someone tried to dry a poodle in the microwave which made it explode. We have a pretty good idea of the rate of accidental shootings and the rate of accidental deaths due to gunfire. They are both extremely low, on the order of dying by being struck by lightning. The actual numbers, let alone the rate, have been falling since we first started gathering the statistics in 1903. 



> Most people who own guns? when the time comes to shoot someone in your house? Cannot shoot the gun and it gets taken away by the bad guys who ends up shooting them back. BE SURE you will have the guts to to KILL a person no matter the age? could be in the dark too!


 
Have you got anything even remotely resembling evidence for this? I mean other than "My friend the cop said" or "It's just gotta be this way". We have enough really good research on the subject to say pretty definitively that that's not how it works. NIJ estimates are that the defender is disarmed in less than 1/10000th of 1% of DGUs. That's as close as a statistician can get to saying "It ain't in the cards." Kleck's research is top flight. It's pretty unequivocal on ths subject. So is everything that's followed. 

Here's how it goes...

Most of the time a gun is drawn in self defense the defender feels pretty darned frightened. He or she draws and presents. Most of the time the bad guy decides that whatever he wanted wasn't worth getting shot over. "Most of" as in "over 90% according to the best data we have". That is pretty much how it happened every time I've used a firearm in self defense. No shots fired, in more than one case the gun didn't even have to be drawn. The bad people understood that I was frightened enough of being hurt that I was willing to kill them. 

That doesn't even address the fact that an awful lot of people have guns for purposes other than self defense. There are hunters, historical recreators and people in the shooting sports.

Now, there is a pearl of wisdom in your mass of blind assertions. Don't carry a gun thinking that it will magically protect you. It will not jump out of its box and stand between you and danger. Only carry if you are psychologically prepared to use it and if you have the training and practice to do so efficiently. 



> Best advice is to search professionals on home protections. It may take more than one thing. Example : better locks, alarms, camera's, a big dog,bars on lower windows, neighbor hood watch, Jet Li,,more lights, 24 guards, and all the advice from above!


How nice it must be to be really rich and be able to hire people to take care of you all the time. Alas, I am not. A lot of the stuff you are talking about is a waste of time and money. And a lot more of it only helps with certain sorts of violent crime and not the most likely ones. Besides, it neglects one very important fact, perhaps the only important one.

*You are responsible for your own life and safety*

Nobody else is. Other people may take your money and give you help. In the end it's you. 



> ...Aloha - can mean BYE to the bad guy, or hello this is my, gun...Aaa-lo-ha......pow!,pow! pow! (just kidding)


 
And a "Hoo! Ha! Chop Sockey!" to you to :shrug:


----------



## Bodhisattva

upnorthkyosa said:


> The bad news is manifold.
> 
> We live on a corner street. In the last six months, the houses across both streets have now been burglerized.
> 
> There was a giant Meth bust in our town and this has skyrocketed demand, filling the streets with lots of desperate people.
> 
> And I know of several methheads that live near our house (and the cops know alot more then I do).
> 
> And THAT scares the hell out of me...


 
Yes, this is the problem with the "war on drugs."  It makes drugs far far far more dangerous than they would otherwise be.


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## Cruentus

Upnorth,

I was out of town on 'business' when this went down so I never responded to this thread.

Out of curiosity, what have you done since the incident to secure your home and family?


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## Makalakumu

1.  Got the dog.
2.  Got the alarm system.
3.  Got the 357 in the quickbox, both wife and I have gone to classes.
4.  Got to know the neighbors, most are elderly, so we are now on kid, grandkid, great grandkid level.

I don't know what else I could do other then chop off some methheads and put them on pikes around my house...

Seriously, I don't want to get to crazy because the neighborhood has been quiet.  I want to think that our increase vigilance is a factor, but I don't want to get my hopes up...


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## Cruentus

upnorthkyosa said:


> 1.  Got the dog.
> 2.  Got the alarm system.
> 3.  Got the 357 in the quickbox, both wife and I have gone to classes.
> 4.  Got to know the neighbors, most are elderly, so we are now on kid, grandkid, great grandkid level.
> 
> I don't know what else I could do other then chop off some methheads and put them on pikes around my house...
> 
> Seriously, I don't want to get to crazy because the neighborhood has been quiet.  I want to think that our increase vigilance is a factor, but I don't want to get my hopes up...



Wow dude! That's great that you were serious about this, and you took protective measures. You covered all the main things that anyone could do. With elderly neighbors, you are put in a position to be their 1st line of response if anything were to happen to them (even if that just means calling 9-11 for them). So encourage them to have good locks on their doors and windows, and a monitored alarm system as well as an early warning device. This will not only help them, but it'll help you because the more secure your street is, the safer it is for you.

Great job though!


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## chinto

ok, get good quality heavy duty security strikes and medco double key dead bolts on the doors, the dog is good and all but make sure that the alarm is installed by good people and armed when you are not there! also make up your mind if you do confront a methmonster in your home are you ready to take its life?  there is a thing called amphetamine psychosis.  this makes them parinoid and extremely dangerous!  I would consider such an encounter a deadly force one.. in my state if they enter in such a way ( unauthorized and with intent to commit a crime its burglary and black letter law says its a deadly force encounter.)  myself I will do what ever I have to to stop them. If you are wondering I live in a meth heavy aria... they make a lot of the meth that is made in the USA here in this aria... what is not is mainly made in Mexico from what I hear...  so if you end up in that situation and the alarm is going off and here is bozo number one.. and number two.. shoot the idiots .. and DO NOT SHOOT TO WOUND!  its for keeps if a fire arm is involved!!  the law and the attacker will both look at it that way!


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## sgtmac_46

Strong doors, keep them locked, a nice loud yipping dog, a security alarm, and a loaded 12 gauge shotgun with which to repell boarders!


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## kwaichang

I must agree with the monitored alarm system. We too have ADT and have two signs (house sits back several hundred feet) and all windows decaled.  True the Sheriff's deputies have too large an area to respond quickly, however, the alarm will notify and most criminals don't want to "guess how long" the response will take.
As for false alarms, ADT calls and asks for a password if it isn't given, they notify.
It isn't perfect but it's sure better than nothing.
We also have good locks, solid doors and extra ammo inside.


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## BLACK LION

you sound pretty fortified.... but you are not the target my friend... the weak ones are....   like your neighbors... elderly and unprepared... they broke in with a tie iron....they knew they could have thier way with just a metal pipe.... im sure there are plenty of others around that can be terrorized with normal day to day items....    they are not invading homes 5 strong with smgs or shotguns so there is allot you can do to deter the element....    
you are in a position as a "more aware" person to police your street and get others involved so that criminal element know that they are being watched and they will eventually come across someone who will put them down....  forget adding bells and whistles....  a good entry alarm/camera and a dog is fine.....  protect the ones who cant protect themselves....


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## kwaichang

BLACK LION said:


> you sound pretty fortified.... but you are not the target my friendprotect the ones who cant protect themselves....


 
hmmm, I was a target now I'm just not as much a target and protecting my family comes first.


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## stonewall1450

Well... I know for a fact criminals are generally stupid and are TERRIFIED of dogs. I myself am the son of a veterinarian so fear of dogs is not really my thing. So having a dog is 1 good step. Getting an alarm is not a bad idea. My dads animal hospital has an Alarm system and it was broken into. Well the alarm sounded and they got away with a WOPPING 16 cents from the cash drawer. So they DO help if you have neighbors and you actually use it. Make sure all your doors and windows are ALWAYS locked. And make sure not to leave tools, ladders, and pretty much anything that could be used to get into your house out in the open. Chain lock stuff that has to be left outside.

As for the gun(which is what I assume you mean when you say you are armed), if it comes down to you having to use it my advice is the same as several cop friends. Shoot to kill. Give them a chance to surrender, but no compliance means no more breathing. But be sure that you know what your shooting at. Lights are VERY important for that. I would say visible signs and such would help.


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## kwaichang

Agreed.  A dead intruder is less likely to sue you for use of excessive force.


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## sparky12

A security storm door can be very effective as it can't be kicked in and is hard to pry open if installed properly. Barking dog and neighborhood watch are also very good. Good luck


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## Drac

1.Get to know your neighborhood aka what belongs and what doesn't...

2.If something looks real suspicious call the cops...Also make sure you have a regular telephone and not rely on your cell phone...In the case of an emergency you can punch in 9-1-1 and set it down..Your name and addy will show up on the dispatcher center incoming calls and a car will be sent..That only happens with an old fashion landline...

3.Alarm systems are a good deterent, but they have tendency to go off for the slightest reasons..

4. Light up your backyard..Criminals hate bright lights...If you know an electician ring your garage perimeter with flood lights..


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## jks9199

Drac said:


> 1.Get to know your neighborhood aka what belongs and what doesn't...


You live in your community 24/7.  Cops generally only work there.  You're going to know the neighborhood better than the cops, unless you live life with blinders on.


> 2.If something looks real suspicious call the cops...Also make sure you have a regular telephone and not rely on your cell phone...In the case of an emergency you can punch in 9-1-1 and set it down..Your name and addy will show up on the dispatcher center incoming calls and a car will be sent..That only happens with an old fashion landline...


A few important points on phones.  In my agency, I have to play dispatcher sometimes, so I know more about the 911 system than the average cop.  We also have a few dispatchers here who know even more, and they may want to add to or modify this.

First, know the best way to call your local PD.  911 may go to a central dispatch for a region, while your PD may have a direct number for police dispatch.  It's sometimes called a non-emergency number -- but, where I work, if you call our "non-emergency number" in a police emergency, it's ringing on OUR desk, not at the fire & rescue dispatch for the county.  This'll save as much as several minutes while the 911 call taker figures out what your calling about and where you're calling from.  

Second, 911 hangups and open lines.  GREAT tools for self defense, because most agencies WILL send a cop to find out.  If it's accidental, call back and explain right away.  They may still send a cop (I generally would), but they'll be less worried when they respond.  

Third, E911 is the system that advises addresses.  It doesn't always work right...  but it's a good tool a lot of the time.  Don't rely blindly on it.  Both cell and land lines are portable today; they can move with you, and sometimes the switching makes mistakes.  Also, in some cases, especially in border areas of jurisdictions, it may just go to the wrong agency.


> 3.Alarm systems are a good deterent, but they have tendency to go off for the slightest reasons...
> 
> 4. Light up your backyard..Criminals hate bright lights...If you know an electician ring your garage perimeter with flood lights..


Alarms and lights are great -- but both must in proper working order.  Don't skimp the maintenance on these.  And make sure that your alarm monitoring company, if you have one, has the right jurisdictional information.  I once got to respond to a fire alarm just a bit outside my jurisdiction because the alarm company couldn't get it through their head that they were calling the wrong place...  Fortunately, I was close, 'cause the house was on fire.

One last note on calling in a suspicious person/vehicle/whatever.

Never hesitate to do so!  The dispatcher's job is to prioritize and assess the calls; they won't pull a cop from "something important" to check out your suspicious person.  The most you'll do is keep that cop from writing someone a traffic ticket!


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## arnisador

Thanks for this great and well-informed advice! I always wonder...is there any way to test whether they have the right address without making a false 911 call to test it?


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## jks9199

arnisador said:


> Thanks for this great and well-informed advice! I always wonder...is there any way to test whether they have the right address without making a false 911 call to test it?


Not really.  If you need to make a "test" call to 911 for some reason (like programming a new phone), stay on the line, and BRIEFLY explain why you called.  Hang up when the call taker acknowledges you, and says to.  DON'T do this repeatedly or often!  

And, don't forget some areas DO NOT have 911 of any type!  And cell phones may not go to the proper 911 for where you are, especially if you're in border areas of jurisdictions.  It's going to go where the tower is... so, sitting at home, if I dial 911 on my cell, I'm probably going to get the wrong jurisdiction because I'm actually on the border area of 4 different jurisdictions!


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## Drac

jks9199 said:


> You live in your community 24/7. Cops generally only work there. You're going to know the neighborhood better than the cops, unless you live life with blinders on.


 
And some do...Please folks don't be one of them..





jks9199 said:


> First, know the best way to call your local PD. 911 may go to a central dispatch for a region, while your PD may have a direct number for police dispatch. It's sometimes called a non-emergency number -- but, where I work, if you call our "non-emergency number" in a police emergency, it's ringing on OUR desk, not at the fire & rescue dispatch for the county. This'll save as much as several minutes while the 911 call taker figures out what your calling about and where you're calling from.


 
Yes...



jks9199 said:


> Second, 911 hangups and open lines. GREAT tools for self defense, because most agencies WILL send a cop to find out. If it's accidental, call back and explain right away. They may still send a cop (I generally would), but they'll be less worried when they respond.


 
Again 100% truth...Call back and say it was an accident...




jks9199 said:


> Third, E911 is the system that advises addresses. It doesn't always work right... but it's a good tool a lot of the time. Don't rely blindly on it. Both cell and land lines are portable today; they can move with you, and sometimes the switching makes mistakes. Also, in some cases, especially in border areas of jurisdictions, it may just go to the wrong agency.


 
That has happened to me on a squad run..They skimped on the service and the call for help went ot the fire department proper and not to our agency that dispatches for them



jks9199 said:


> One last note on calling in a suspicious person/vehicle/whatever...Never hesitate to do so! The dispatcher's job is to prioritize and assess the calls; they won't pull a cop from "something important" to check out your suspicious person. The most you'll do is keep that cop from writing someone a traffic ticket!


 
Reread and heed that paragraph folks...


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## Isuam

Something else is also important: 
Train your dog to take food only if a command (keyword) is used, even when you feed him. 
So it does not take food from strangers, who try to poison it.
It does not eat poison, that people put somewhere to kill rats.
It does not "steal" food from your table or from the hands of family members.
And it is also a funny game - you can show him food and say some words that sound similiar to the keyword, before you say the keyword and he does take the food. (My dog's keyword was "express" - and he did not take the food, when i said "exzess")


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## MBatcho1

Even though you are armed, have a dog and new windows and such, I would still get an alarm. 

Your probably gonna spend a little money on the initial set-up but after that its like 30-40 a month. Well, thats the price from where I'm from. 

With all that action in your neighborhood it might be a good idea to move (if thats possible). 

Thats really all I have for you but I hope things work out.


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## Hudson69

90% of crime is crime of opportunity so based off of this statement I would imagine that someone either imagined that the elderly couple next door were not home or were elderly and would not put up a fight if confronted but judging by the assault I would way it the former and not the latter.

For personal protection inside the home a gun is one option but care must be taken.  For all around protection I would give some suggestions with the first being go to your local Police Department or Sheriff's Office and find someone who is versed in CPTED (Crime Prevention Through Evironmental Design, pronounced Sep-ted here).  This will get someone who is LE and can tell you how to modify your yard to make it more secure without making it look like a fortress (unless you want that).  The LEO will also be able to spin you up to speed on the home defense/make my day laws in your area as well as give you some, hopefully good ideas, on other things you can do (remember you might get a less than helpful LEO but the CPTED should be solid as long as he/she refers to the manual).

Other key things you can do:

Neighborhood Watch, real or informal
Alarm system, contract or as simple as getting window and door alarms/sirens from a hardware store (its what I did)
Lights (motion detector lights, on all four corners/sides and any other dark place you want lit up when uninvited company might or might not arrive.
Security deadbolts with screws that go into the studs and not the molding.
Security chains so you can open the door without totally unlocking it.
track locks in the windows/sliding doors or a wooden rod to check movement.
Wide angle peephole on all exterior doors.
Video tape the inside and outside of your home during daylight hours.
Record the serial numbers of any property that has a serial number.
Invest in a small safe that will bolt to the walls and floors for documents and video anything mentioned above.
Phone tree list of emergency and non-emergency numbers, family members, neighbors, utilities and anyone else you can think of near the phone you use most or by your bed.
A flashlight on everylevel.
Have a charged cell phone next to the bed and turned on.
A good (gooooooood) first aid kit.
Trim the bushes out from your house and low enough that no one can hide behind them, especially near a garage or home entrance.
Trim tree branches up in the same manner so no bandits can hide under them long enough to get the drop on you.
Put a list together of any special needs you or anyone living in your house might have, put it with the phone list(s).
For gun owners who keep it for home defense only:

Get a good gun lock for your heater or better yet a safe and work it so you can open it a 4:12 am in the dark when you are still half out of it or have an adrenaline dump and are shaking.  Guns left out get forgotten until the break in and then you just armed a burglar...  The safe is a better choice especially when it can be hidden somewhere inconspicuous near the bed.
Put home defense rounds in it, not super-magnum +P+ armor piercing rounds.  Glaser makes an outstanding home defense round, police rounds will over-penetrate, sometimes even with a solid hit on a bandit and kill someone you dont want it to (Remember there is a lawyer attached to every bullet you own and he doesn't get off until the round stops in a safe location). *HOME DEFENSE ROUND*
Have a reload ready, the number 1 malfunction in an auto is the mag.  If you have to shelter in place you might need the rounds until the police show up.  Use a speed loader for revolvers since if you have to reload your adrenaline will be up and you tend to lose your manual dexterity.
Get night sites, not a laser sight, or have your flashlight ready to go.
Train, train, train and train some more and then practice your training; Take a home defense course, Practice shooting in low light conditions, practice shooting while holding a flashlight, from kneeling, from prone, from cover.
Find out what in your house is cover and not just concealment (expect a burglar/trespasser to be armed with the nastiest round available, ball ammo will penetrate better than LEO hollow points normally).
Know how to navigate your home in absolute darkness (remeber where the squeaky floor boards are and the kids toys).
There is more and if you want shoot me a message and photo of your house and we can go over it, front and back for the CPTED or other options as well as training ideas or just for any questions.  I am a freelance safety trainer/security consultant and love doing this in addition to being a veteran Police Officer


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## shane

they work well  sufficient  as a deterrent. Update your  protection  on your valuables, use a  district  "buddy system"- with  friends  you  understand  and  believe  well. If you don't have  numerous  in there,  inquire   associates  to  hold  an eye on your  dwelling  while you're away.


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## elmerq

maunakumu said:


> Hi Everyone
> 
> I slept in this morning, got up posted a little on MT, went down stairs worked out, got ready to take the dog for a walk, went outside and noticed six squads surrounding the neighbors house. The crime scene investigation unit was on the scene and their were two canine units sweeping the neighborhood.
> 
> Here's the story...
> 
> Lo and behold, shortly after my brother and I were coming back from my teacher's class two and a half hours away and walking into the door of our house (around 12:30), a perpetrator, armed with a crowbar, forced open the neighbors door and entered the house. My neighbors, who are an elderly couple, were home at the time. Doug came out of the room to confront the perpretrators and they hit him with the crowbar and fled the scene.
> 
> The good news is that both of them are okay. Doug has a nasty cut above his eye and both of them are pretty scared, but the robbers left empty handed.
> 
> The bad news is manifold.
> 
> We live on a corner street. In the last six months, the houses across both streets have now been burglerized.
> 
> There was a giant Meth bust in our town and this has skyrocketed demand, filling the streets with lots of desperate people.
> 
> And I know of several methheads that live near our house (and the cops know alot more then I do).
> 
> What can I do to make my house less of a target for these guys? I have a dog who is very alert and we are armed in my house. Our windows are new and our doors are new secure doors. Would an alarm system be money well spent?
> 
> I'm willing to try anything right now because I know that if that would have been me, I would have come downstairs with my gun and would probably have had to shoot someone.
> 
> And THAT scares the hell out of me...


 
There's already a lot of great advice on this forum... they are right, you should keep a database of all your items and also place a value to them.  Also include the serial numbers.

A year ago someone broke into my house and stole some pretty valueable items.  The cops asked for the serial numbers, model number, and general item description.  The insurance company asked for the same thing as well.  Saying, "Uh.. I have a black 42 inch LED Samsung television isn't enough."  It won't catch the bad guy and your insurance company will need a model number and current price indicator.

Remember that bad guys are stealing items, not for the item itself sometimes, but to get cash for the items.  They steal the item, turn it into a pawn shop, and get the cash.  Cops work with the surrounding pawn shops in your neighborhood and warns the pawn shop owners about the item.

Also, consider joining the local neighborhood watch programs or start one.  A neighborhood watch is a government endorsed program.  You work with local law enforcement and become their eyes and ears for your neighborhood.  You could volunteer to be the regional coordinator and be a voice of information within your community.


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## Balrog

Lisa said:


> UpNorth you have been given really good advice.  One thing I didn't see being mentioned is whether or not there is a neighbourhood watch in your area.  Getting to know your neighbours and having them watch out for you and you do the same is a damn good idea.  You may not always be home, but hopefully one of your neighbours are.


Ditto.  Contact your local PD for help on organizing one.  The "Nosy Neighbor" is one of the best crime deterrents there is.


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## elwin

blackxpress said:


> Sounds to me like you're pretty well prepared. I doubt if an alarm system would do you much good. Might protect your valuables when you're away from home. Might not. Hopefully, you have adequate insurance to cover those losses anyway. Your main concern is protecting life and limb if the methheads break in while you are home. Again, sounds like you've got it covered. Bad guy breaks in with crowbar. Dog barks, wakes good guy (you) up. Good guy caps bad guy. Case closed.


 

I couldn't have said it any better myself! It really sounds like everything is pretty much covered. However, one critical factor must also be addressed within your self defense training at all times, and that is the "Real Life Factor" for when the worse case actually happens. 

Are you capable of controlling the extreme fear that may totally overwhelm you during the critical moments of the attack? Will you be able to control the inevitable adrenaline rush that may put your body in a sudden state of shock, making you unable to react effectively?(If you don't FREEZE UP!) ARE YOU MENTALLY READY TO PULL THE TRIGGER?

Your concern (The meth heads attacking you and your family) are all to much a reality. Fully prepare yourself to go ALL the way when it's you or them. You did't look for any trouble, you are the good guy. Hurt him first when he enters your home, for he won't hesitate to hurt you or one of your family members, as demonstrated by the attack on your elderly neighbours.

NB! If the authorities don't get a full grip on things soon in your area, things could get worse as criminals tend grow bolder and more aggressive the longer they are in action, and getting away with it. You may have to pull the trigger at some point.


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## stonewall1350

Without reading I have standard advise that I have heard from many law enforcement officers (I attend conferences on school security and people always ask and there is almost always 3 answers).

1) Lights
2) Security System
3) Dog

If you are breaking into a home those are 3 things you don't want to deal with. You don't need to be super secure, but you do not want to look like an easy target. People target the path of least resistance. That is what you want to be. You want to look like you are aware...and that you won't be an easy victim.

Additionally keep an eye on the area and ask the police for more patrols. Make friends with the police. That is what I always do. I try to make friends with patrol cops and the higher ups too. It can't hurt to at least know them 

Edit:

Oh oh oh if you have the option...plant thorny bushes underneath windows that they can access. And make sure all your tools are picked up. Nothing they can use to break in. Meth heads are not known for being prepared...even those 2 mopes happened to be.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## JohnnyEnglish

Makalakumu said:


> Hi Everyone
> 
> I slept in this morning, got up posted a little on MT, went down stairs worked out, got ready to take the dog for a walk, went outside and noticed six squads surrounding the neighbors house.  The crime scene investigation unit was on the scene and their were two canine units sweeping the neighborhood.
> 
> Here's the story...
> 
> Lo and behold, shortly after my brother and I were coming back from my teacher's class two and a half hours away and walking into the door of our house (around 12:30), a perpetrator, armed with a crowbar, forced open the neighbors door and entered the house.  My neighbors, who are an elderly couple, were home at the time.  Doug came out of the room to confront the perpretrators and they hit him with the crowbar and fled the scene.
> 
> The good news is that both of them are okay.  Doug has a nasty cut above his eye and both of them are pretty scared, but the robbers left empty handed.
> 
> The bad news is manifold.
> 
> We live on a corner street.  In the last six months, the houses across both streets have now been burglerized.
> 
> There was a giant Meth bust in our town and this has skyrocketed demand, filling the streets with lots of desperate people.
> 
> And I know of several methheads that live near our house (and the cops know alot more then I do).
> 
> What can I do to make my house less of a target for these guys?  I have a dog who is very alert and we are armed in my house.  Our windows are new and our doors are new secure doors.  Would an alarm system be money well spent?
> 
> I'm willing to try anything right now because I know that if that would have been me, I would have come downstairs with my gun and would probably have had to shoot someone.
> 
> And THAT scares the hell out of me...




Meth heads around the house ?

Good Lord! I would advise you to move to an other city as soon as possible, sounds like you are living in some sort of ghetto, this can only end up bad.

I don't think it is the right area to live in, if you have to prepare to shot someone, sounds actually like hell.


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## Tez3

He moved to Hawaii if I remember rightly.


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## Don Johnson

Last Fearner said:


> Lots of good advice given, but it is easy to get lost in the many suggestions, and not prioritize.  Law Enforcement Officers know their business (especially if they work in high crime districts), so heed their warnings.  This happens to be my field of expertise (former LEO, plus specialist in security industry and executive protection).
> 
> *First Option*:  If at all possible, I would consider moving from such a neighborhood, especially since you have young children to protect as well.
> 
> If moving is not an option, much of what you are going to do will depend on your budget.  Some suggestions seem to have you remodeling your house, and turning it into Fort Knox (fine if you have the money).
> 
> The first thing you want to consider is the *deterrent factor*.  As others have said, if you can make your home a *harder target*, criminals will likely move on.  To this end, consider the following:
> 
> *Priority 1:* *Alarm system*.  (I use the ADT system)  A professionally installed and monitored alarm system comes before any other defense because a good system will cover all bases, and is virtually impossible to defeat (especially for the dope crazed attic looking for drug money).  It works when you are asleep, awake, or away from home.  Contact sensors on every door and window (upper and lower floors), and area motion sensors in every room.
> 
> Control panels with panic buttons should be installed at each entrance, and in the Master Bedroom (a panel in your safe room if you create one).  The alarm system would have a loud siren at your residence, and call the monitoring company who will dispatch the police (or you can pay for an armed security service to respond in addition to police in case the police are busy).
> 
> *Priority 2:* *Signs*.  In addition to the alarm itself, one of the best deterrents are the yard signs, and window stickers.  Place them in every yard facing all directions, and in every ground floor window.  A potential criminal who sees these indicators will likely move on to the next house.  No criminal wants a noisy alarm going off as they are attempting to break in, nor do they want the police summoned by a monitored alarm system.
> 
> *Priority 3:* *Noise*.  Besides an alarm, a dog is an excellent deterrent because they hear things better than people.  Criminals do not like barking dogs drawing attention to their activities, and they don't like the idea of getting bitten by a big dog.  However, when you are not at home, your dog can be taken out of the equation without anyone knowing.  Another option, especially if you have a safe room, install a P.A. system with speakers on the outside of your house.  If you hear someone breaking in, or is already in your house, a loud booming voice shouting at them to "get out! The police are on the way!" will usually send them running.  Neighbors can hear it, which assists the neighborhood watch concept.
> 
> *Priority 4:* *Visibility*.  Most criminals do not like to be seen approaching a house, or while breaking in.  Keeping your property clear of objects, and shrubs where criminals can hide is essential (especially shrubs near the house).  Lighting all dark areas at night (motion sensor lights work wonders - I have them all around my house - but a front and rear porch light could stay on all night).  Interior lights on timers, and motion sensors help as well.
> 
> *Priority 5:* *Additional Patrols*.  This is a very effective method of making a target undesirable.  The more often a squad car passes an area at random times, criminals are reluctant to act in that neighborhood or choose that target.  However, police are often tied up with other calls, so another option is to have a professional security patrol drive by at various times.  This costs more money, but can be worth the investment to protect your family and property.  Perhaps a group of neighbors would be willing to share the cost.
> 
> *Moving Past Deterrence to Prevention*​
> *Priority 6*.  *Preventing Entry*.  While deterring a criminal works in most cases, and the better you deter them, the less likely they will try, there are those that will attempt entry no matter what alarms go off, what signs you post, or how well lit your house is.  These criminals will pose as delivery people, mail carriers, meter readers, phone repair, or just casually stroll up to your door and kick it in hoping that no one notices at that moment (an alarm siren sounding at this point will usually scare them off).
> 
> However, preventing entry involves locks, gates on doors and windows, and even security shutters which hinge and lock, or roll up and down.  It depends on how far you want to go, and how much you have to invest.  Basement windows are best to be secured with bars that are very difficult to cut or remove quickly.  Again, if you can slow them down in gaining access, while an alarm goes off, and police are on the way, they might give up and flee.  Make it difficult for criminals to gain access to second stories by not providing objects near your house (ladders, trash cans, cars, antenna towers, etc) that they can climb.  Make second story windows secure, and use contact sensors with an alarm.
> 
> In addition to the good advice about not opening the door to anyone you don't know, be careful that there is not someone with a gun behind the person you do know.  Be sure there is not someone hiding around the corner or walking up behind you while you are unlocking your door to come home.  If repairman (electric, phone or gas company) come to your door, have a way they can show you their ID without you opening the door (remember that most of those security chains can be forced and broken relatively easily.  Don't rely on them.)  Call the utility company to verify any workman before letting them in.
> 
> *Priority 7.  Defense upon entry*.  If someone gains access to your home when you are away, try to have ways to identify this before you enter the house in case they are still there.  If criminals break in while you are there, self defense skills are important, and weapons can be useful, but the first priority should be to either flee out a back door, or go to a completely secure "safe room."  Protect yourself and your family first (get out), call police secondly, fight criminals as a last resort.  Keeping firearms safe from children is highly important.  You might never need them for a break-in, but it is not worth the risk if a child is killed because of them not being secure.
> 
> Have your most deadly weapons locked in a case, the case stored in a locked cabinet, and the ammo stored separately.  Besides trigger locks, guns can be purchased with a variety of safety features, including a digital combination to operate it.  Easy for owners to use, difficult for children, or if an intruder gets your gun.  For your primary defense, use less lethal weapons that are not likely to kill children if they get a hold of them.  In most cases, you should have time to gather your children to a safe place, and barricade yourself in before going for your firearms, unless you have quick and safe access to your gun.  There are a variety of non-lethal weapons that can be grabbed and used for quick defense in the mean time, and are less dangerous around kids.
> 
> *Priority 8: Recovery of stolen property*.  Property can be replaced, lives can not!  It is best not to resist unless absolutely necessary, but be prepared to fight with full lethal force.  If your children are safe, and you have the means to repel an unlawful entry, the do so from the start, but if you are caught with no weapons (except your body) and there is risk of loss of life, let the criminals take your valuables and go.  Right now, today, everyone should take inventory of all items of value in their house and car.  Make a list, copy it, and keep copies in safe places inside and outside your home (safe deposit box, or relatives house).  All expensive items should be engraved and marked for identification, and recorded accordingly.
> 
> *Additional note and reminder to everyone: If you haven't already done this in the past few months, make sure there is a working smoke detector in each main room of your house, and one near each bedroom.  Check the batteries today - right now!  If you don't have enough smoke detectors, get them today.  Keep a fire extinguisher in your kitchen for small fires.  Nothing robs you of your property and lives like an undetected fire.  Also, if you have an attached garage, get a carbon monoxide detector today!  Prevent the silent killer!  Make a note to ask your friends, neighbors, and relatives about these as well!*
> 
> Last Fearner


Excellent.  Thorough.  Thanks for sharing your expertise.  I hope you just had to copy and paste this from your website and make a couple small modifications to personalize for thread.  If not, put is on your site now!


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## Don Johnson

Hudson69 said:


> 90% of crime is crime of opportunity so based off of this statement I would imagine that someone either imagined that the elderly couple next door were not home or were elderly and would not put up a fight if confronted but judging by the assault I would way it the former and not the latter.
> 
> For personal protection inside the home a gun is one option but care must be taken.  For all around protection I would give some suggestions with the first being go to your local Police Department or Sheriff's Office and find someone who is versed in CPTED (Crime Prevention Through Evironmental Design, pronounced Sep-ted here).  This will get someone who is LE and can tell you how to modify your yard to make it more secure without making it look like a fortress (unless you want that).  The LEO will also be able to spin you up to speed on the home defense/make my day laws in your area as well as give you some, hopefully good ideas, on other things you can do (remember you might get a less than helpful LEO but the CPTED should be solid as long as he/she refers to the manual).
> 
> Other key things you can do:
> 
> Neighborhood Watch, real or informal
> Alarm system, contract or as simple as getting window and door alarms/sirens from a hardware store (its what I did)
> Lights (motion detector lights, on all four corners/sides and any other dark place you want lit up when uninvited company might or might not arrive.
> Security deadbolts with screws that go into the studs and not the molding.
> Security chains so you can open the door without totally unlocking it.
> track locks in the windows/sliding doors or a wooden rod to check movement.
> Wide angle peephole on all exterior doors.
> Video tape the inside and outside of your home during daylight hours.
> Record the serial numbers of any property that has a serial number.
> Invest in a small safe that will bolt to the walls and floors for documents and video anything mentioned above.
> Phone tree list of emergency and non-emergency numbers, family members, neighbors, utilities and anyone else you can think of near the phone you use most or by your bed.
> A flashlight on everylevel.
> Have a charged cell phone next to the bed and turned on.
> A good (gooooooood) first aid kit.
> Trim the bushes out from your house and low enough that no one can hide behind them, especially near a garage or home entrance.
> Trim tree branches up in the same manner so no bandits can hide under them long enough to get the drop on you.
> Put a list together of any special needs you or anyone living in your house might have, put it with the phone list(s).
> For gun owners who keep it for home defense only:
> 
> Get a good gun lock for your heater or better yet a safe and work it so you can open it a 4:12 am in the dark when you are still half out of it or have an adrenaline dump and are shaking.  Guns left out get forgotten until the break in and then you just armed a burglar...  The safe is a better choice especially when it can be hidden somewhere inconspicuous near the bed.
> Put home defense rounds in it, not super-magnum +P+ armor piercing rounds.  Glaser makes an outstanding home defense round, police rounds will over-penetrate, sometimes even with a solid hit on a bandit and kill someone you dont want it to (Remember there is a lawyer attached to every bullet you own and he doesn't get off until the round stops in a safe location). *HOME DEFENSE ROUND*
> Have a reload ready, the number 1 malfunction in an auto is the mag.  If you have to shelter in place you might need the rounds until the police show up.  Use a speed loader for revolvers since if you have to reload your adrenaline will be up and you tend to lose your manual dexterity.
> Get night sites, not a laser sight, or have your flashlight ready to go.
> Train, train, train and train some more and then practice your training; Take a home defense course, Practice shooting in low light conditions, practice shooting while holding a flashlight, from kneeling, from prone, from cover.
> Find out what in your house is cover and not just concealment (expect a burglar/trespasser to be armed with the nastiest round available, ball ammo will penetrate better than LEO hollow points normally).
> Know how to navigate your home in absolute darkness (remeber where the squeaky floor boards are and the kids toys).
> There is more and if you want shoot me a message and photo of your house and we can go over it, front and back for the CPTED or other options as well as training ideas or just for any questions.  I am a freelance safety trainer/security consultant and love doing this in addition to being a veteran Police Officer


Again.  Well said and thorough.  Great to see so many good, positive suggestions on this thread!


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## Don Johnson

The real question is, how many of the other people viewing this thread have implemented more of the strategies and advice freely given by experts in this thread?  Your neighborhood may not be currently experiencing a rise in crime, but crime happens everywhere, at anytime, to anyone.  Be proactive, now.


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## Dirty Dog

Don Johnson said:


> The real question is, how many of the other people viewing this thread have implemented more of the strategies and advice freely given by experts in this thread?  Your neighborhood may not be currently experiencing a rise in crime, but crime happens everywhere, at anytime, to anyone.  Be proactive, now.



Given that this thread died out in 2007, I sort of doubt very many people are viewing it...


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## Don Johnson

Dirty Dog said:


> Given that this thread died out in 2007, I sort of doubt very many people are viewing it...


Thanks.  New guy learning the forum


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## Dirty Dog

No worries. Zombie resurrection is pretty common.


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## Juany118

jks9199 said:


> Absolutely; I'm going to use this one as a starting point.
> 
> NCIC - that National Criminal Information Center databases - is a great tool.  But, we can't enter an item without a unique descriptor, like a serial number or owner applied number.  (Imagine just how many "Westinghouse Blenders" there are...)  Record the serial numbers of your property, or affix/scribe a distinctive number/letter combination (initials & last four of your SSN are one common suggestion - though, today, I'd suggest the first 3 or 4, which aren't unique to you, except in combination with your initials or the last 4).
> 
> Have good locks and deadbolts, and use them.  Avoid advertising nice/expensive stuff.  For example, don't leave a laptop sitting in front of the window.  And, before you throw the boxes away, break 'em down and even bag 'em.  Nothing says "hit this house!" like the box from your brand new plasma TV and home theatre system sitting at the curb...
> 
> Never, ever, EVER hesitate to call in suspicious people in your neighborhood.  What's the absolute worst you'll do?  Keep a cop from writing a ticket when he meets your new neighbors right after they move in?  If there's something "more important", I guarantee that we'll be going to that, not a simple suspicious person complaint!
> 
> An alarm system isn't a bad idea, especially if it's a remotely monitored system that operates in conjunction with a local alarm.  At the very least, you'll know if someone breaks in.  And the sound of the local alarm may well scare them off.  Just keep it in repair...
> 
> Regarding "secure doors."  The best, most impenetrable door is only as good as the door frame and wall around it.  I've seen people put impressive deadbolts in doors that are bordered by large, glass sidelights.  Guess what?  Unless you also replace the glass with something like bulletproof acrylic... You're deadbolt is silly.  There're plenty of places that you can look up the recommended throws, etc.



I cant agree with this more.  I ask people almost every day, after they told me they saw suspicious stuff for days, "why didn't you call us".  They respond "well I didnt want to seem a bother, you have more important things to do." Unless I am actually responding to a call already, I don't have anything better to do.  As a matter of fact I want the calls.  If it turns out to be nothing, it's a 2 sentence card comment and I move on and you helped me fight boredom .  If it is something thing then it's even better that you called.


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