# Hip trouble with my round kick and stretching?



## Ivan (Mar 29, 2019)

Hello, I have been having trouble with my hips especially when it comes to my roundhouse kick and the box splits. To make sure there is no confusion as to which kick I am referring to, I will post a video here. 




Even after my warmup exercises I have extreme trouble when it comes to executing a round house kick (both sides). Everything seems to go fine up until after the chamber. When I have my knee with the leg ready to kick, I attempt to execute the kick. I cannot go above my belt height, and if I try to force it, I get a sharp pain just under my hip bone. I cannot tell whether it is muscular or my bones. *Please don't spam the thread telling me to go to the doctor, because I am already booking an appointment.
*
Moreover, I sometimes get the pain not on the kicking leg, but the leg which is providing support for me as well; sometimes I get it on both. I can't recall to have had this sort of trouble with my sidekick! When we do our warm up, at one point we are told to sit down, and stretch our legs out as wide as possible, then proceed to touch our toes with our opposite legs. If I try to stretch my legs out above a 90-100 degree angle, I will get the same sort of pain on both sides. Keep in mind, that I don't think flexibility has anything to do with this, as I am 5 inches off of my side splits!

I am at my wits end as to what this could be; I have been told that it could be that my hips simply aren't made for this stuff and that I have the "wrong type" of hips, but I refuse to accept that at the age of 17, I have already managed to find something that will hinder me throughout my whole martial arts career . Please guys, if anyone has any idea as to what my problem is, I need help! One of my senseis has said that one of the only solutions to this could be to break my hips, and whilst, I'm ready to do that, I do not want arthritis or any sort of problems like that in my later life.


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## skribs (Mar 29, 2019)

Ivan said:


> Hello, I have been having trouble with my hips especially when it comes to my roundhouse kick and the box splits. To make sure there is no confusion as to which kick I am referring to, I will post a video here.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



There's different types of flexibility, depending on the joints and muscles that are being stretched.  There are some people than can do perfect side splits and can't even touch their toes.  There's others who can grab their heels comfortably and bury their face in their knees, but can't go more than a right angle on their side splits.

Are you still growing?  It could be that your leg bones are growing faster than your hip bones, and the socket will sort itself out when your pelvis catches up.


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## skribs (Mar 29, 2019)

As an addendum to my previous post:

Hip pain in the kick could be due to injury, inflexibility, or improper technique.  Kick lower and slower until you're used to it.  If you try to kick across your hips it will be more painful than if you turn your hips first.
It sounds like you're just starting out.  It takes time for some of these things to happen and you might not have a high kick until much later in your career.  That doesn't mean you won't have one, it just means it will take a while for you to work into it.
Your master should be able to help you in a way that's healthy for you.  If he can help you slowly work on your flexibility and fix issues with your technique, that's good.  If he was serious about breaking your hips, that's not good and you should find a new school.  (I'm going to assume he was joking but if he wasn't, that's not where you want to be).


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## Ivan (Mar 29, 2019)

skribs said:


> There's different types of flexibility, depending on the joints and muscles that are being stretched.  There are some people than can do perfect side splits and can't even touch their toes.  There's others who can grab their heels comfortably and bury their face in their knees, but can't go more than a right angle on their side splits.
> 
> Are you still growing?  It could be that your leg bones are growing faster than your hip bones, and the socket will sort itself out when your pelvis catches up.


I haven't really moved height wise, but I am 17 and I believe male development stops around the age of 25. Thanks.


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## Ivan (Mar 29, 2019)

skribs said:


> As an addendum to my previous post:
> 
> Hip pain in the kick could be due to injury, inflexibility, or improper technique.  Kick lower and slower until you're used to it.  If you try to kick across your hips it will be more painful than if you turn your hips first.
> It sounds like you're just starting out.  It takes time for some of these things to happen and you might not have a high kick until much later in your career.  That doesn't mean you won't have one, it just means it will take a while for you to work into it.
> Your master should be able to help you in a way that's healthy for you.  If he can help you slowly work on your flexibility and fix issues with your technique, that's good.  If he was serious about breaking your hips, that's not good and you should find a new school.  (I'm going to assume he was joking but if he wasn't, that's not where you want to be).


It wasn't my taekwondo master that told me this, she disagreed. It was my Shorinji Kenpo teacher, though I have been and will be unable to attend those classes for a while.


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## Headhunter (Mar 29, 2019)

You can't be great at everything. I'm no doctor so I can't tell you anything the bodies anatomy but not everyone is a kicker. Nothing wrong with that its just not everyone's specialty. Maybe it isn't yours. Maybe your kicks will never be as good as another guys kicks but it doesn't matter you've just got to do the best you can do with them and see what happens


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## Danny T (Mar 29, 2019)

How long have you been working specifically to do this kick?
How many kicks have you performed in practicing this kick?
Time put in actually practicing the kick will make a huge difference.


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## Earl Weiss (Mar 30, 2019)

Ivan said:


> ......*Please don't spam the thread telling me to go to the doctor, because I am already booking an appointment.
> *
> .


Welll, until you get an answer from the doctor  to the effect that there is no definitive  anatomical issue limiting your range of motion anything else is just a guess.


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## yak sao (Mar 30, 2019)

Post a video of yourself throwing the kick.
Not just fast, but also slow as if you were teaching it to us. 
There may be a slight flaw in your form that someone picks up on.
And that's not a knock on your teacher, sometimes a second set of eyes are needed.


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## paitingman (Mar 30, 2019)

Frog stretch is a great excersize you may already do. 

You can do it with hips behind the knees, in line with the knees, hips in front of the knees. Work all the angles. 

Just keep stretching and keep kicking. Take it slow. Slowly work up with height of kick as you continue training. You'll be kicking far above your current comfort height soon enough. You don't have to force it.


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## jobo (Mar 30, 2019)

Ivan said:


> Hello, I have been having trouble with my hips especially when it comes to my roundhouse kick and the box splits. To make sure there is no confusion as to which kick I am referring to, I will post a video here.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


well not every thing is easy,  even for athletic  17 yo, in the wider population being able to kick at waist height is a faily uncommon ability, head high is extremely uncommon, most people would have to put months or even years into that, if they ever achieve it. getting flexibility tips of people who have always been flexible is pointless, they really dont understand a problem they have never had to deal with.

you could have a hip impingement,  which means short of breaking you hip, you will never get there, more likely one or more of the myriad of muscle ligiments and tendons in and around your hip, up into your lower back and down your legs is short,tight or under developed, or just as likely it's a neurological issue, where your nervous system is refused to do a movement its decided is potential injurious. or both of these !

how do you progress it ? slowly, millimetres at a time, if you can increase your range of motion a millimetre  a week, in a year it's two inches, you should be able to head kick by the time your 40. what you actual find, the the rate of progress picks up as you go, so a lot of time and effort to get the first couple of inches then a fast climb to what ever your limit is


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## dvcochran (Mar 30, 2019)

paitingman said:


> Frog stretch is a great excersize you may already do.
> 
> You can do it with hips behind the knees, in line with the knees, hips in front of the knees. Work all the angles.
> 
> Just keep stretching and keep kicking. Take it slow. Slowly work up with height of kick as you continue training. You'll be kicking far above your current comfort height soon enough. You don't have to force it.



I would add a similar rail stretch when he gets to that level. Put your chambered knee on a waist level rail and use your own weight to lean into the wall stretching the hip in the correct kicking position and working on balance.


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## dvcochran (Mar 30, 2019)

I can only guess to your actual MA experience. Yes, being 17 should be a huge advantage in regards to your athletics but that does not mean you should automatically be flexible. Not necessarily the specific belt level but I sometimes reference what I call the "green belt syndrome" . You should have been working out enough to have some skill but also long enough to realize you have a lot to learn and work on. It is a time when patience is really tested and too many people give up and quit. I hope this is not you. I remember when I was a green belt I had a terrible stretch. I decided if I could not improve my stretch in the next 6 months I would quit. I stayed late after nearly every class to work on my stretch. Wall/rail stretches and partner stretches helped me the most. In short, I needed the resistance, not just the static stretching. Painful, yes. Dangerous, hopefully not for you at 17. ***Note: I feel dangerous is a very strong word in this sense. Look up ballet and gymnast exercises on Youtube. You should see many of the rail and partner stretches I am talking about. Some of my favorites (with my made up names):

Rail swings -  both in a locked leg front kick motion and side swing motion. You should feel the hip "binding" on the side swing. Leave the body as straight up as possible. 
Roundhouse rail stretch -  Put you knee on the rail in a chambered position. Grab the rail with BOTH hands to provide hip resistance in the kicking direction. Don't lean forward at the waist. Grabbing the rail forces you to keep the body up. You can also let go of the rail and use your body weight to also work on balance.

Ballet rail stretches - Look on Youtube.
Frog stretch - There is a post on this thread with a picture. If you can do them comfortably, have someone Gently push down on your hips. 
Splits - Lots of splits. There is a very, very big difference in what I think you are calling a side split and a straight on split. Side splits are very good for straight on kicks like front and crescents. They aid the standing leg on other kicks the most. If side splits are "easy", kip you hips inward; rolling your belt toward the ground. This will really load the hip flexor on the rear leg. If you want to stretch the quad, reach back and grab you back foot and pull it to the hip. 
 Partner splits - Facing each other, have the partner grab your belt and put their feet a little below your knees. Let them work you into a good resistive split position. Lay back, on you back. Yes, it will hurt. Slowly work the arch out of your back. Using pain as your mentor, have your partner push your legs back.
Partner splits - Have your partner get behind you. Keeping your back STRAIGHT so that the stretch is in the hips, have your partner push on you back just above the belt as you stretch to your left & right legs, and to the middle. As you progress, have your partner use their  body to "lay" over your back doing the same stretches.
Rail splits -  Do straight on splits using the rail to pull yourself forward. 
In short, there is no shortcuts that I am aware of. Your frustration is quite normal so don't let it discourage you too much. Use it as motivation. Do some benchmarking and measure where you are. In 6 months do it again and measure your improvement. Stretching is a lot like investing money. You will see almost no improvement if you measure it every day. Some days you may even seem to regress. That is OK. Just keep grinding.


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## Ivan (Mar 30, 2019)

dvcochran said:


> I can only guess to your actual MA experience. Yes, being 17 should be a huge advantage in regards to your athletics but that does not mean you should automatically be flexible. Not necessarily the specific belt level but I sometimes reference what I call the "green belt syndrome" . You should have been working out enough to have some skill but also long enough to realize you have a lot to learn and work on. It is a time when patience is really tested and too many people give up and quit. I hope this is not you. I remember when I was a green belt I had a terrible stretch. I decided if I could not improve my stretch in the next 6 months I would quit. I stayed late after nearly every class to work on my stretch. Wall/rail stretches and partner stretches helped me the most. In short, I needed the resistance, not just the static stretching. Painful, yes. Dangerous, hopefully not for you at 17. ***Note: I feel dangerous is a very strong word in this sense. Look up ballet and gymnast exercises on Youtube. You should see many of the rail and partner stretches I am talking about. Some of my favorites (with my made up names):
> 
> Rail swings -  both in a locked leg front kick motion and side swing motion. You should feel the hip "binding" on the side swing. Leave the body as straight up as possible.
> Roundhouse rail stretch -  Put you knee on the rail in a chambered position. Grab the rail with BOTH hands to provide hip resistance in the kicking direction. Don't lean forward at the waist. Grabbing the rail forces you to keep the body up. You can also let go of the rail and use your body weight to also work on balance.
> ...


No one on this forum has to worry about me quitting; martial arts are my passion, and I aim to teach them when I am older. Thanks to everyone here, I am extremely grateful for your words of wisdom.


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## _Simon_ (Apr 1, 2019)

Some great advice already given, definitely see if stretching helps (but progress slowly and safely, not forcing your body aggressively into positions it isn't used to), but it very well may be a bone growth or anatomical progression thing.

When I was 17 I was pretty much one of the shortest people in my whole year level at school. It wasn't till well after high school (uni years) that I really shot up and now I'm much taller than then. May just be a catching up thing that needs to happen so that the hip joint has more freedom of movement around it, but can't be of more help sorry.


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## Gerry Seymour (Apr 1, 2019)

Ivan said:


> Hello, I have been having trouble with my hips especially when it comes to my roundhouse kick and the box splits. To make sure there is no confusion as to which kick I am referring to, I will post a video here.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It's just as well you have an appointment booked, so now we can get down to some serious speculation without real knowledge. 

My first thought was this sounds like something I experienced in my right hip a while back, which was diagnosed as bursitis (inflammation of the bursa). If that's what it is, it needs rest and probably anti-inflammatory treatment. Have you tried taking an NSAID, and does it help at all? It is possible this is related to hip structure. The Hobbit has osteoma (abnormal bone growths, I think is the layman's term) in both hips and has pain when she tries to kick high on a round kick. This can be unrelated to age.

Most likely, a specialist will be able to provide a definitive answer. A GP is probably going to default to my first thought (bursitis) or something similar, as it's fairly routine to treat and should be ruled out first, before incurring the cost of a specialist.


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## Gerry Seymour (Apr 1, 2019)

skribs said:


> There's different types of flexibility, depending on the joints and muscles that are being stretched.  There are some people than can do perfect side splits and can't even touch their toes.  There's others who can grab their heels comfortably and bury their face in their knees, but can't go more than a right angle on their side splits.
> 
> Are you still growing?  It could be that your leg bones are growing faster than your hip bones, and the socket will sort itself out when your pelvis catches up.


Good point. I can neither do side splits, nor touch my toes, but I can kick head-height with my right leg on both round and front kicks, and nearly so with my left.


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## WaterGal (Apr 4, 2019)

If you could post a video, it would help us rule out any problems with your technique. There are a number of problems that beginner/intermediate students often have. I.e. Not pivoting the supporting leg enough, or not turning the hips enough. 

Also, I guess, if you could let us know when and where you have the pain? I know you said it was under your hip, but that can describe a few locations. I'm guessing you mean the pain is in the front of your body, right above the outer edges of your groin, is that correct?


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## Ivan (Apr 13, 2019)

WaterGal said:


> If you could post a video, it would help us rule out any problems with your technique. There are a number of problems that beginner/intermediate students often have. I.e. Not pivoting the supporting leg enough, or not turning the hips enough.
> 
> Also, I guess, if you could let us know when and where you have the pain? I know you said it was under your hip, but that can describe a few locations. I'm guessing you mean the pain is in the front of your body, right above the outer edges of your groin, is that correct?


I'll see about the video, but the pain is underneath the hip bones in a straight line, both legs. if you put your index finger on your hip bone and slide it down in a straight line, that's it.


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## jobo (Apr 13, 2019)

Ivan said:


> I'll see about the video, but the pain is underneath the hip bones in a straight line, both legs. if you put your index finger on your hip bone and slide it down in a straight line, that's it.


on the out side of your leg or 5he inside?


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## Gerry Seymour (Apr 13, 2019)

Ivan said:


> I'll see about the video, but the pain is underneath the hip bones in a straight line, both legs. if you put your index finger on your hip bone and slide it down in a straight line, that's it.


That's starting to sound like the IT band. It's hard to stretch - perhaps someone here can point a video of an ITB stretch, which would probably tell you if that's the problem.


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## Leviathan (Apr 15, 2019)

Lack of flexibility in your muscles is certainly not the issue if you're just 5 inches away from the split. I am more than a foot away from the split and still I can kick at head level without pain in my joints.

I remember having a similar problem a couple of years ago although not as intensive. I went straight to a good osteopath who found out it was due to some stiffness in the conjunctive tissue. He solved the matter in 1 appointment. No medication needed, just some manual therapy. I had fully recovered my flexibility by the end of the appointment.

Personally for that kind of issues I prefer going to an osteopath than a doctor / orthopedist. Osteopaths usually have a better feeling and understanding of joint issues. And they don't push for surgery, medication or X-rays, ct-scan etc.

In case your doctor is not really useful and osteopathy is out of reach to you (I have no clue where you are and whether osteopathy is widespread over there), you might purchase a yoga foam roll and work your legs and back with that. That could help relax the conjunctive tissue (only helpful if that is the issue of course).

Keep us posted and good recovery.


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## Ivan (Apr 15, 2019)

jobo said:


> on the out side of your leg or 5he inside?


More towards the outside


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## Gerry Seymour (Apr 15, 2019)

Here's a link to some IT band stretches. If you "feel" these stretches in about the same area, I'd bet that's at least part of the problem.

4 Important Ways to Protect Your Iliotibial Band After Exercising


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## spawn2031 (Nov 11, 2019)

Did you every figure out what was stopping you here?  I get a very similar kind of pain when I try to throw round house kicks but I can barely get above my own knee.  If you have increased your flexibility since the start of this thread, I'd love to hear what stretches you used.


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## Bruce7 (Nov 11, 2019)

Ivan said:


> Hello, I have been having trouble with my hips especially when it comes to my roundhouse kick and the box splits. To make sure there is no confusion as to which kick I am referring to, I will post a video here.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I am not a doctor, so I am just guessing.
When I was your age I could do the splits and had no hip pain doing roundhouse kicks.
Now I can't get anywhere never a split and it hurts my hip if I try to do a high roundhouse.
It feels like a sharp nerve pain. For some reason I do'nt have that problem with a front or side kick.
I think there must be some muscle that has to be stretched in order to do high round kicks without that hip pain.
I have been doing stretches from Bill Wallace video.
It has help me.* It took weeks before I saw and felt improvement.*
IMO, Pushing yourself to do high round kicks before you can do the splits will hurt you more than help you.


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## Earl Weiss (Nov 12, 2019)

Bruce7 said:


> ....
> Now I can't get anywhere never a split and it hurts my hip if I try to do a high roundhouse.
> It feels like a sharp nerve pain.


I see from your profile you are 63.    Had the issue when I was about 50. 
An X Ray of the hip joint revealed the issue. No amount of stretching would fix it and would just cause more pain. Have you had an X Ray?


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## Bruce7 (Nov 12, 2019)

Earl Weiss said:


> I see from your profile you are 63.    Had the issue when I was about 50.
> An X Ray of the hip joint revealed the issue. No amount of stretching would fix it and would just cause more pain. Have you had an X Ray?


Thank you. that is good advice. I will have it checked out. Over the last year I have improved about 12 inches. I have gone from stomach high to arm pit high on my dumie.


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## Gerry Seymour (Nov 13, 2019)

Bruce7 said:


> I am not a doctor, so I am just guessing.
> When I was your age I could do the splits and had no hip pain doing roundhouse kicks.
> Now I can't get anywhere never a split and it hurts my hip if I try to do a high roundhouse.
> It feels like a sharp nerve pain. For some reason I do'nt have that problem with a front or side kick.
> ...


I don't know about that last point. I can still round-kick to head height, but can get nowhere near a split. Seriously, my static flexibility in my legs is absolutely atrocious, and always has been.


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## Ivan (Nov 15, 2019)

spawn2031 said:


> Did you every figure out what was stopping you here?  I get a very similar kind of pain when I try to throw round house kicks but I can barely get above my own knee.  If you have increased your flexibility since the start of this thread, I'd love to hear what stretches you used.



No. However, by constantly doing the same kick (round kick) over and over on a bag, I managed to get the technique right and the pain has mostly subsided. Try it.


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## Flying Crane (Nov 18, 2019)

Ivan said:


> One of my senseis has said that one of the only solutions to this could be to break my hips, and whilst, I'm ready to do that, I do not want arthritis or any sort of problems like that in my later life.


Jeezuz, don’t do this!!!  And if that sensei was floating that as a serious option, I might suggest finding a new sensei.


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## pdg (Dec 12, 2019)

Bruce7 said:


> Pushing yourself to do high round kicks before you can do the splits will hurt you more than help you





gpseymour said:


> I don't know about that last point. I can still round-kick to head height, but can get nowhere near a split. Seriously, my static flexibility in my legs is absolutely atrocious, and always has been.



I'm much more toward Gerry here.

On side splits, I'm over 12" away from getting grounded.

But, I can turning kick, front rising kick, side kick and twisting kick over my own head height - without pushing myself.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Dec 12, 2019)

Ivan said:


> One of my senseis has said that one of the only solutions to this could be to break my hips, and whilst, I'm ready to do that, I do not want arthritis or any sort of problems like that in my later life.


I'm seriously hoping that this is was a joke that you just didn't realize was meant as a joke.


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## pdg (Dec 12, 2019)

kempodisciple said:


> I'm seriously hoping that this is was a joke that you just didn't realize was meant as a joke.



I really don't think it was a joke unfortunately.

Not when there's surgery available to break your legs and put them in traction to make you 3" taller for cosmetic reasons...


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## Bruce7 (Dec 12, 2019)

pdg said:


> I'm much more toward Gerry here.
> 
> On side splits, I'm over 12" away from getting grounded.
> 
> But, I can turning kick, front rising kick, side kick and twisting kick over my own head height - without pushing myself.



I can do all kicks except the round kick over my head.
In order to increase the high of my round kick without pain.
I have to work on side splits to increase my range on round kicks.
When I work onside splits the pain is seemer to the pain of the round kick.
I think there must be a muscle that needs to be stretched in order for me to do high round kicks.


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## Earl Weiss (Dec 13, 2019)

Bruce7 said:


> I ...
> When I work onside splits the pain is seemer to the pain of the round kick.
> I think there must be a muscle that needs to be stretched in order for me to do high round kicks.


You could also have a joint issue that no amount of stretching will resolve and continuing to push the joint past it's potential rage of motion will only lead to more pin or damage.   Guess how I know


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## Gerry Seymour (Dec 17, 2019)

Earl Weiss said:


> You could also have a joint issue that no amount of stretching will resolve and continuing to push the joint past it's potential rage of motion will only lead to more pin or damage.   Guess how I know


I've had students (and have a wife) with joint issues that entirely precluded kicks above a certain height, so I'll second this post.


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