# New member ...



## 14 Kempo

Hello all, the name would actually be Bob. I'm new to MartialTalk. I have taken a bit of time to read a few threads, but I'm just getting started. I originally came online to see what people knew about the Villari/USSD split and I'm quite sure there is a lot of knowledge out there.

I am of the split era, having trained now with both styles. I was with the Villari system, or at least a teacher of his proclaimed art, from 1985-92, not too sure what all went on from 1988-92, only knew what I was told from a one-sided point of view, attaining Nidan. After taking several years away from the arts, I am now with USSD and yes, I've seen all the negativity, but I can assure you I have a good instructor and have had mostly good experiences. It's not a money thing with me. It's not a who's who with me. It's not a who did what with me. It's a where am I and what are my needs. I'm in a good place and my needs met being met. That is what matters.

That's it for now, type at you all again soon ... Bob


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## Drac

14 Kempo said:
			
		

> It's a where am I and what are my needs. I'm in a good place and my needs met being met. That is what matters


 
All excellent reasons...Greetings and welcome to MT...


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## HKphooey

Welcome to MT!


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## matt.m

Good reasons man.  Welcome to MT


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## terryl965

Welcome and happy posting.
Terry


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## Lisa

Hiya Bob!  Welcome! :wavey:


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## Swordlady

Welcome to MT!  :wavey:  Glad to hear that training has been going well for you, despite the split.


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## Phadrus00

Welcome aboard Bob!  Enjoy your time here at MT!

Rob


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## Rick Wade

Aloha and welcome to MT.
Although I can't help you with the initial topic.  feel free to ping on me about American Kenpo.

Happy Posting

Aloha

Rick


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## MJS

Welcome to MT! Enjoy your stay with us! 

Mike


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## MA-Caver

Welcome to MT Bob, browse around and be sure to use the search engine to find topics of interest (to you) and enjoy your stay.


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## stone_dragone

Greetings and welcome to MT!  Train what you know and to hell with the negativity!


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## Gemini

Welcome to MT, Bob!


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## pstarr

Welcome to the forum!


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## Jonathan Randall

Welcome!


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## bobster_ice

Hi and welcome to MT!


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## Kreth

Welcome to the forum, Bob.


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## Ping898

Welcome to MT Bob  :wavey:


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## IcemanSK

Welcome to MT, Bob!


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## kelly keltner

welcome


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## Mariachi Joe

Hey Bob, I'm also with ussd and have seen the negativity but stick with it because I have a good instructor whom I respect.  Best of luck to you.


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## Daenriel

Welcome look forward to chatting.

Daenriel


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## Mariachi Joe

Say Bob I have a question you might be able to answer since you were with Villari's organization.  Is there any difference in what ussd teaches and what Villari's teaches.  I figure since Mattera and Demasco were both with Villari until they were 7th dan's they probably teach the same thing I would think.


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## exile

Hi Bob---welcome to MT---good to have you with us! Hope you get all your questions answered...


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## Kacey

Welcome, and happy posting!  :wavey:


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## Jade Tigress

Welcome to Martial Talk!


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## Matt

14 Kempo said:


> I'm in a good place and my needs met being met. That is what matters.



Well, that just about nails it, I guess. That's really the  most important factor. 
If you are interested in the History of SK, or in an archived list of techniques, feel free to check out my website. It doesn't have much on the USSD / Villari's splits (there were more than one), but that's because I tried to weed out the 'hearsay' and ended up with pretty much nothing left. 

Matt


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## Arizona Angel

Hi, welcome to MT!


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## IcemanSK

Welcome to MT! Happy posting.


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## Hand Sword

Welcome!


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## 14 Kempo

Mariachi Joe said:


> Say Bob I have a question you might be able to answer since you were with Villari's organization. Is there any difference in what ussd teaches and what Villari's teaches. I figure since Mattera and Demasco were both with Villari until they were 7th dan's they probably teach the same thing I would think.


 
Yes, pretty much the same. Some of the terminology is different, Villari's system, they have combinations ... USSD has defensive manuvers ... but still, they are the same with slight variations on positioning, strikes and targets. This also relates to the forms. I have yet to see any major differences in the material required for rank. Villari's system seems to be a bit more "street-wise" ... USSD maybe a bit more technical, however, that could simply relate to the instructor. Hope that answers your question ...


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## bushidomartialarts

welcome


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## Mariachi Joe

It answers a lot Bob, thanks.


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## airdawg

Welsome fellow Kenpoist


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## airdawg

Do you know your lineage?


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## 14 Kempo

airdawg said:


> Do you know your lineage?


My personal lineage, yes I do. As far as styles, Fred Villari's and USSD. As far as my instructors and thier rank when I was with them: Frank Ley, 1st Degree (currently 6th Degree with USSD), FV; Dennis Knowles, 4th Degree, FV; Robert Pearlswig, 6th, FV (currently 8th Degree, ASSK); Currently training under a 3rd Degree, USSD. Again, this is just who I've been with not a complete lineage.


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## shaolin ninja 4

14 Kempo said:


> My personal lineage, yes I do. As far as styles, Fred Villari's and USSD. As far as my instructors and thier rank when I was with them: Frank Ley, 1st Degree (currently 6th Degree with USSD), FV; Dennis Knowles, 4th Degree, FV; Robert Pearlswig, 6th, FV (currently 8th Degree, ASSK); Currently training under a 3rd Degree, USSD. Again, this is just who I've been with not a complete lineage.


 

So did you start at Fred Villaris then ASSK then back to USSD?


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## 14 Kempo

shaolin ninja 4 said:


> So did you start at Fred Villaris then ASSK then back to USSD?


 
I was with FV from 1985-1992, now with USSD. Never was I with ASSK, that is Master Pearlswig's style today. At the end of my stint with FV, I was pretty much on my own, working out with Russell Streff (equal in rank at the time) in Mission Viejo, after Master Pearlswig left the area. The FV name had changed to International at the end as well.


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## shaolin ninja 4

14 Kempo said:


> I was with FV from 1985-1992, now with USSD. Never was I with ASSK, that is Master Pearlswig's style today. At the end of my stint with FV, I was pretty much on my own, working out with Russell Streff (equal in rank at the time) in Mission Viejo, after Master Pearlswig left the area. The FV name had changed to International at the end as well.


 
You were with Master Scott Woods as well?   What happened to him?
Does he have any dojos left?


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## jenngibbs2000

Welcome 14 Kempo!  I am a blue w/green stripe in the USSD system and am completely devoted to my training and instructor.  I am completely confident that the system is legitimate and have my children enrolled as well.  I am also very aware of the negativity surrounding USSD and find it fairly ridiculous.  USSD is a business, run by very adept business people.  USSD is also a training ground for martial artists -- a very welcoming training ground with excellent instructors (especially in SoCal) and encouraging Masters.  Every rank test to which I have been invited has been a huge educational opportunity facilitated by knowledgeable martial artists, including Shihan Paul Taylor.  In short, I have been very impressed with both my so-called Mc-Training and the so-called shady businessmen of USSD.  You get what you pay for!!


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## 14 Kempo

shaolin ninja 4 said:


> You were with Master Scott Woods as well? What happened to him?
> Does he have any dojos left?


 
No, I was never with Master Scott Woods, although I am familiar with the name.


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## 14 Kempo

jenngibbs2000 said:


> Welcome 14 Kempo! I am a blue w/green stripe in the USSD system and am completely devoted to my training and instructor. I am completely confident that the system is legitimate and have my children enrolled as well. I am also very aware of the negativity surrounding USSD and find it fairly ridiculous. USSD is a business, run by very adept business people. USSD is also a training ground for martial artists -- a very welcoming training ground with excellent instructors (especially in SoCal) and encouraging Masters. Every rank test to which I have been invited has been a huge educational opportunity facilitated by knowledgeable martial artists, including Shihan Paul Taylor. In short, I have been very impressed with both my so-called Mc-Training and the so-called shady businessmen of USSD. You get what you pay for!!


 
Well, I too believe the system is legitimate. So many are close minded. The arts should teach a person to open thier mind. I see so many people that believe a technique must be performed only the way it is taught. Open the mind, look at techniques not for what they are, but what they can be. I also believe that the art in many cases has been diluted, but what art hasn't? If it is a traditional art, does the master always teach everything he knows and beyond? Doubtful that happens in every case ... so by its very nature, the art as it is known at the time, will become diluted. That doesn't mean that it can't grow as well. It just grows in different directions in some cases. Some of those directions are good, some not so good. No one is saying that this is the only art, there is nothing else. A person won't pay for something if they feel it has no value and I for one, will not chastise a person either way. do what is nest for you. Enjoy!


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## Goldendawn8

Welcome to Ma. I was also curious about the split.


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## ArmorOfGod

Hello and welcome to MT!

AoG


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## shaolin ninja 4

jenngibbs2000 said:


> Welcome 14 Kempo! I am a blue w/green stripe in the USSD system and am completely devoted to my training and instructor. I am completely confident that the system is legitimate and have my children enrolled as well. I am also very aware of the negativity surrounding USSD and find it fairly ridiculous. USSD is a business, run by very adept business people. USSD is also a training ground for martial artists -- a very welcoming training ground with excellent instructors (especially in SoCal) and encouraging Masters. Every rank test to which I have been invited has been a huge educational opportunity facilitated by knowledgeable martial artists, including Shihan Paul Taylor. In short, I have been very impressed with both my so-called Mc-Training and the so-called shady businessmen of USSD. You get what you pay for!!


 

Hey pal ask your masters why Grand Master Fred Villari is not in your black belt manual?
Ask them what dm or form is shaolin?


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## Mariachi Joe

I am also with ussd, and as to why Fred Villari is not even mentioned in the ussd manual, I imagine it's because Charles Mattera broke away from Villari and took a lot of Villari's schools out west with him.  There is probably some bad blood between them, be that as it may though I think Villari should be included in the manual since he did train Mattera and Demasco up to their 7th dan's.


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## shaolin ninja 4

Mariachi Joe said:


> I am also with ussd, and as to why Fred Villari is not even mentioned in the ussd manual, I imagine it's because Charles Mattera broke away from Villari and took a lot of Villari's schools out west with him. There is probably some bad blood between them, be that as it may though I think Villari should be included in the manual since he did train Mattera and Demasco up to their 7th dan's.


 
I heard mattera only made it to 6th but whatever it's not like I'll get straight answer from him or his lackys.  If they lie about where the art came from(fred villari) and thats its really villari kempo not shaolin I would not believe a word they say.

My instructor said mattera ran villaris thats not true. He also said they were partners also a lie.  Fred Bagly was the President of villaris when charlee stole all those schools. Charlee was just a district manager when he left.

 These are just a few lie's about them I wonder how many more you could dig up since your still with them.


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## shaolin ninja 4

Hey joe ask your instructor about why you cant own your dojo 100% anymore I am sure he'll have a good answer.  

And if you aren't dying of laughter ask him why we dont pay respect to GM Fred Villari?


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## Mariachi Joe

I have asked and the answer to both questions was the same.  I don't know.  My instructor says he has deep respect for GM Villari but does not why he is not mentioned.  As for the Shaolin Kempo name that comes from Villari himself, when he broke away from Nick Cerio ( in similar fashion as Mattera & Demasco left him ) Villari called his style Shaolin Kempo Karate.


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## Mariachi Joe

All the information I've been able to find outside of ussd is that Mattera left as a 7th dan, got his 8th dan from Prof. Nick Cerio, and was then joined by Steve Demasco who was a 7th dan at the time.


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## shaolin ninja 4

Mariachi Joe said:


> All the information I've been able to find outside of ussd is that Mattera left as a 7th dan, got his 8th dan from Prof. Nick Cerio, and was then joined by Steve Demasco who was a 7th dan at the time.


 
And where did he get his 9th?   And has anyone seen his certificate of rank for tenth ether?


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## shaolin ninja 4

Mariachi Joe said:


> I have asked and the answer to both questions was the same. I don't know. My instructor says he has deep respect for GM Villari but does not why he is not mentioned. As for the Shaolin Kempo name that comes from Villari himself, when he broke away from Nick Cerio ( in similar fashion as Mattera & Demasco left him ) Villari called his style Shaolin Kempo Karate.


 
Does your instructor know that he could own a villaris school for 50,000
And keep all THE MONEY?  Unless he is happy with ussd. 

And if he thinks in the next 10 years he'll have 10 of his own dojos with ussd.
Right before I left my instructor said ussd will go 100% company own schools soon.

So your instructor will be ......


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## Mariachi Joe

The highest rank I saw was Mattera's 8th dan from Prof. Cerio, well I should say I've seen a picture of it, but on Nick Cerio's website Mattera is listed in their black belt lists.


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## shaolin ninja 4

Mariachi Joe said:


> The highest rank I saw was Mattera's 8th dan from Prof. Cerio, well I should say I've seen a picture of it, but on Nick Cerio's website Mattera is listed in their black belt lists.


 
Yes Ive seen that but wheres the ninth and tenth certificate?


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## Mariachi Joe

Your guess is as good as mine.  I have no idea where Mattera got his 9th dan, could be the same place as Villari.  As for the 10th he and Demasco got those at the Shaolin temple in 2000.  I don't know what the abbot is doing handing out Japanese ranks, but that's the story.


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## 14 Kempo

Since this happens to be a thread I started, I have to ask, why is it people always seem to take the low road on these message boards. Everyone, and I mean everyone, that signs onto a message board related to martial arts, knows the story between FV and USSD. Yes, there is some bad blood. Yes, most people deem USSD, and FV for that matter, so-called McDojos. Why don't people start taking the higher road and speak positively about the arts. If you don't like something, that's fine, state it then move on. This argument has gone on long enough. Start your own bashing thread and chip away there. Go back over the same issues, retype all the same arguments, I was there, I lived it, I stayed out of it. If someone states they are happy, let them be. Get on with life, find something positive for a change ... yeah, go ahead, now bash me ... LOL


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## Mariachi Joe

I'm not bashing anyone.  I have nothing against Villari or his organization.  As for ussd, I'm a student of theirs and I think they have some very positive qualities to them, but I'm not blind to the negative either.  That being said I'm with ussd by choice.


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## 14 Kempo

Mariachi Joe said:


> I'm not bashing anyone. I have nothing against Villari or his organization. As for ussd, I'm a student of theirs and I think they have some very positive qualities to them, but I'm not blind to the negative either. That being said I'm with ussd by choice.


 
Just for the record, my comments weren't aimed at you Mariachi Joe ...


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## jenngibbs2000

Whether or not USSD teaches an authentic (to the core?) Shaolin system or XYZ system -- I AM STILL LEARNING -- and whatever I am learning is a beautiful, useful tool I am confident will help me defend myself if needed.  Self defense aside, I am fascinated by the forms and techniques and greatly enjoy the exercise and flexibility value this art has added to my life.

I could care less where and by whom Mr. Mattera received his 10th -- martial arts has taught me to concern myself with exactly that...MYSELF.  As long as I am benefitting from my training, I will stay with USSD.

And by the way, you can't own a USSD studio outright, because years ago when that option was available, too many prople ran them into the red and USSD had to re-purchase them.  Simple and effective business 101.

Martial arts and business acumen are not mutually exclusive!

Sorry Kempo 14, didn't mean to re-ignite to furor...how about that Black Tiger 2 kempo?


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## 14 Kempo

jenngibbs2000 said:


> Sorry Kempo 14, didn't mean to re-ignite to furor


 
I certainly don't mind people expressing themselves, good or bad. It is those that bring up the same ole topics, same ole arguments, same ole issues ... just come up with something fresh and I'll not complain. Wouldn't it be nice to see martial artists that look for the positive rather than the negative all the time? 

I'm with you, I care not where others got there belts. People need to look at the material and decide if it works for them. We are all of different age, height, weight, flexibility and what not ... it matters not what system a person trains in, just train and train in what ever system works for you.


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## IWishToLearn

Welcome aboard


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## Mariachi Joe

I like the style of Kempo that I'm learning at ussd, and I'm curious as to what our style has in common with other schools.  I know that ussd teaches the same thing as the Villari org. which makes sense since Villari taught Mattera and Demasco, this is not a bad thing since Villari did the same thing when he left Nick Cerio.  I think it would be great if we could participate in tournaments with other kempo schools so we could learn from each other and have a healthy amount of competion between as well as respect.


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## 14 Kempo

I too like the style that I'm learning. Yes, it is nearly identical to Villari's Kempo, I've done both. The one thing I notice is that my memory of Villari's Kempo as it compares to USSD is that of fighting. I believe it was much more physical back when, however, that may be more closely related to the times, it was the mid to late 80's then. If my memory serves me right, a large class was 8 persons. Where I am now, with USSD, a small class is 14, no matter what class. So, I guess what I'm saying with the numbers is that the participants were more 'hardcore' than today. I believe alot of who is participating in martial arts today, at least in the so-called McDojos are people that simply like the workout and the raise in confidence that studying the arts brings. Some may say it's a false confidence, and it very well could be, however, in my experience showing nothing but confidence in a situation can tone things down. Most criminals do not want to attack a confident person, they attack fear ... they want to feel powerful, in-charge. Agree or disagree, I have been in situations that simply remaining calm and showing confidence in myself, allowing them an out, has kept me out of trouble. Fighting or defending oneself should be a last resort, not being in the situation in the first place is the winner. In otherwords, I believe martial arts makes a person more aware of thier surroundings and by being more aware, allows the person to stay out of negative situations.

OK, I'm rambling, so I'll move on ... I am beginning to cross-train a bit, cause other than strength and weight, I may be in just a bit of trouble should I end up on my back. No, USSD may not be the most desirable art for hardcore martial artists, but it does bring martial arts to the masses, even if you want to call it a low-level martial art. If nothing else, people are exercising, working out, keeping the joints moving, keeping the blood flowing ... it's obviously not all bad or it wouldn't exist.


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## Mariachi Joe

Hey ussd introduced me to Kempo/Kenpo and the world of martial arts and for that I will always be grateful even if I don't stay with ussd.


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## OnlyAnEgg

Welcome to MT, 14!


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## pinion

14 Kempo said:


> My personal lineage, yes I do. As far as styles, Fred Villari's and USSD. As far as my instructors and thier rank when I was with them: Frank Ley, 1st Degree (currently 6th Degree with USSD), FV; Dennis Knowles, 4th Degree, FV; Robert Pearlswig, 6th, FV (currently 8th Degree, ASSK); Currently training under a 3rd Degree, USSD. Again, this is just who I've been with not a complete lineage.


 
I am interested in how you confirm the creditials of a teacher before training with them? I live in oregon and have heard mostly good things about ASSK. But how do I know they are the real deal? How do I confirm this from a neutral party?

If you don't mind me asking, when was this time period? Would you know where Robert Pearlswig got his 8th degree? I thought ASSK was just his own school and all records I find on Master Pearlswig training say he got to either 6 or 7th with Grand Master Villari. How do I confirm his current rank, when he would recieved it and from who?


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## 14 Kempo

pinion said:


> I am interested in how you confirm the creditials of a teacher before training with them? I live in oregon and have heard mostly good things about ASSK. But how do I know they are the real deal? How do I confirm this from a neutral party?
> 
> If you don't mind me asking, when was this time period? Would you know where Robert Pearlswig got his 8th degree? I thought ASSK was just his own school and all records I find on Master Pearlswig training say he got to either 6 or 7th with Grand Master Villari. How do I confirm his current rank, when he would recieved it and from who?


 
I can't confirm his 8th. When he was my teacher, he was 6th, that was 1988-1990. On my certificate, Master Pearlswig was listed as 6th Dan in December of 1989, that is all I can confirm. It is not out of the ordinary for a person to have ranked twice in the 17 years that have passed since I was with him, but I can not tell you where he got his rank or from who. What I can tell you is that from what I remember and from everything I've heard, he was pretty well respected as a fighter ... and I'll leave it at that.


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## seasoned

Welcome and enjoy


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## 14 Kempo

pinion said:


> I am interested in how you confirm the creditials of a teacher before training with them? I live in oregon and have heard mostly good things about ASSK. But how do I know they are the real deal? How do I confirm this from a neutral party?
> 
> If you don't mind me asking, when was this time period? Would you know where Robert Pearlswig got his 8th degree? I thought ASSK was just his own school and all records I find on Master Pearlswig training say he got to either 6 or 7th with Grand Master Villari. How do I confirm his current rank, when he would recieved it and from who?


 
I'm not sure where Master Pearlswig got his higher rank. He left the Villari organization back in 88/89 timeframe. That doesn't mean he couldn't have received more rank from FV, but I would doubt it. Maybe a Fred Bagley, or one of the higher ranks that split from FV. I have no idea and was not able to find anything on the Internet.

I can tell you that Master Pearlswig is the real deal, whether he is wearing 6, 7 or 8 stripes doesn't matter. Once a person reaches 5 stripes, they usually know the entire system, just years of experience earn stripes in most systems. Being that he was 6 stripes in 88/89, it would not be unrealistic at all for him to have ranked twice in the 17/18 years that have passed. In fact, I'm very surprised, that in the amount of time that has lapsed, he's not wearing 9 stripes.


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