# First class



## Xinglu (Mar 17, 2010)

Had my first class today, and I enjoyed it very much.  He focuses a lot on concepts and principles which is very nice, it doesn't allow you to get into bad habits as easy and allows me a lot of room to find more ways to apply it.

A lot of what we did reminded me of xingyi (shedding and taking the "mother-line") and the closer in we got with things it reminded me a lot of taiji.

I am excited to see how deep the rabbit hole goes and how I can eventually blend it into my neijia.

So far, enjoyable!


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## Xue Sheng (Mar 17, 2010)

sadly my issues came when working on apps. 

I just could not get away from Taijiquan and Xingyiquan no matter how hard I tried. But I did see a lot of similarities, especially training Siu Lim Tao. 

However the problems did amaze me because I had no such problem training Sanda.

But with that said, Wing Chun is mighty cool, enjoy the training


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## Vajramusti (Mar 17, 2010)

Xinglu said:


> Had my first class today, and I enjoyed it very much.  He focuses a lot on concepts and principles which is very nice, it doesn't allow you to get into bad habits as easy and allows me a lot of room to find more ways to apply it.
> 
> A lot of what we did reminded me of xingyi (shedding and taking the "mother-line") and the closer in we got with things it reminded me a lot of taiji.
> 
> ...


----------------------------------------
Good- if you get a chance, please tell Gabe hello for me.

joy chaudhuri


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## stickarts (Mar 17, 2010)

awesome!


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## Domino (Mar 18, 2010)

Excellent Xinglu, good luck on your path ! 
What lineage are you studying?


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## geezer (Mar 18, 2010)

Xue Sheng said:


> sadly my issues came when working on apps.,  ...the problems did amaze me because I had no such problem training Sanda.


 
Xue, could you elaborate on the application issues? From the very little I know of taichi, I would think that your broad background and experience would be a great asset in Wing Chun, at least as I have experienced it... although so much depends upun the "culture of learning" in each particular school. That is something totally separate from the _quality _of the technique taught. For example, my old Chinese sifu had superb technique, and even a pretty good teaching system, but he never fostered what I would call a "culture of learning". Independent or "creative" thinking was definitely not part of the program.


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## Xinglu (Mar 18, 2010)

Domino said:


> Excellent Xinglu, good luck on your path !
> What lineage are you studying?



Thank you!

Yip Man -> Ho Kam Ming -> Augustine Fong, and my Shifu is under him: Gabe Michael.


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## Domino (Mar 18, 2010)

Xinglu said:


> Thank you!
> 
> Yip Man -> Ho Kam Ming -> Augustine Fong, and my Shifu is under him: Gabe Michael.


 
Excellent & your welcome!
One thing I will say is do not be afraid to ask questions and have fun with it.


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## Xue Sheng (Mar 18, 2010)

geezer said:


> Xue, could you elaborate on the application issues? From the very little I know of taichi, I would think that your broad background and experience would be a great asset in Wing Chun, at least as I have experienced it... although so much depends upun the "culture of learning" in each particular school. That is something totally separate from the _quality _of the technique taught. For example, my old Chinese sifu had superb technique, and even a pretty good teaching system, but he never fostered what I would call a "culture of learning". Independent or "creative" thinking was definitely not part of the program.


 
I never got past Siu Lim Tao and we were working on applications of Siu Lim Tao and no matter how hard I tried I would respond with what I know form taiji based on the attack. Generally the person doing the attacking would throw a straight punch while moving forward which made my brain go on auto-pilot and do under hand grabs with a step back or forward (whatever the force coming at me dictated) to get out of the way, redirect and then it was qinna baby :EG: (I did stop myself from applying qinna) or thoughts of strikes would pop into my head (those I was able to stop as well) I discovered that what I had brought in from taiji was that however the attacker came at me my defense was being based on their force and I did not know wing chun well enough to do anything that remotely looked like what we were suppose to be training. I was in general fighting my propensity to redirect and throw people down and I got tired and frustrated trying. And between my attacks (xingyiquan) and my defense (taijiquan) it was also frustrating the class as well so I stopped.

And I will say this is likely my lack of Wing Chun training talking but I felt more similarities to Xingyiquan and Taiji in Sanda than I did Wing Chun. I do think the ideas being taught in Siu Lim Tao are VERY similar to things in Taijiquan but the actual feeling (Internally) was not the same to me. But you bring up a good point talking about your old Sifu.


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## Xinglu (Mar 18, 2010)

geezer said:


> Xue, could you elaborate on the application issues? From the very little I know of taichi, I would think that your broad background and experience would be a great asset in Wing Chun, at least as I have experienced it... although so much depends upun the "culture of learning" in each particular school. That is something totally separate from the _quality _of the technique taught. For example, my old Chinese sifu had superb technique, and even a pretty good teaching system, but he never fostered what I would call a "culture of learning". Independent or "creative" thinking was definitely not part of the program.



I can attest to how hard it is going to be not to fall into neijia during apps.  Fortunately, my Shifu is encouraging to a degree.  He says, everybody's WC is different, especially when there are other sources influencing the practitioner.  What is the hardest for me, is not the taiji (that seems to blend effortlessly without violating WC principles) , it's the xingyi.  The movements are similar enough that I fall into what I have been doing for the past decade.  So I' trying to do WC, but it is looking more like Xingyi... :uhyeah:

Fortunately, Shifu is patient and simply points it out, in time, I'm sure it will be easier to seperate more then I can now.  Though, since I have no intention of giving up neijia, it will be interesting to see how WC influences everything else I do.

One point I can definitely see where WC and xingyi wil blend well, at least with this lineage: the desire too have a "killing strike" so to speak.  When Shifu was working with me he said okay, now hit like you would on the street.  So I did Paoquan, while he was able to block it without no problem, the fajing completely uprooted him and sent him back a couple of feet (but he didn't loose balance or anything).  He said this is great and if I can incorporate that fajing into WC princibles they should make a great paring.  Now to see if I can do it! :idunno:  I suspect it will take years maybe a decade before I can get it right. LOL


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## Xinglu (Mar 18, 2010)

Xue Sheng said:


> I never got past Siu Lim Tao and we were working on applications of Siu Lim Tao and no matter how hard I tried I would respond with what I know form taiji based on the attack. Generally the person doing the attacking would throw a straight punch while moving forward which made my brain go on auto-pilot and do under hand grabs with a step back or forward (whatever the force coming at me dictated) to get out of the way, redirect and then it was qinna baby :EG: (I did stop myself from applying qinna) or thoughts of strikes would pop into my head (those I was able to stop as well) I discovered that what I had brought in from taiji was that however the attacker came at me my defense was being based on their force and I did not know wing chun well enough to do anything that remotely looked like what we were suppose to be training. I was in general fighting my propensity to redirect and throw people down and I got tired and frustrated trying. And between my attacks (xingyiquan) and my defense (taijiquan) it was also frustrating the class as well so I stopped.
> 
> And I will say this is likely my lack of Wing Chun training talking but I felt more similarities to Xingyiquan and Taiji in Sanda than I did Wing Chun. I do think the ideas being taught in Siu Lim Tao are VERY similar to things in Taijiquan but the actual feeling (Internally) was not the same to me. But you bring up a good point talking about your old Sifu.



Interesting, my Shifu encourages qinna and throws. As well as learning the counters to each and the counters to those counters   I am beginning to suspect that I have sincerely "lucked out" in finding my Shifu.  He talks a lot about feeling your opponents power and responding based on that, to him WC is about control, of yourself and your opponent.


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## Xinglu (Mar 18, 2010)

Domino said:


> Excellent & your welcome!
> One thing I will say is do not be afraid to ask questions and have fun with it.


LOL, I ask questions all class long.  Fortunately, he hasn't hit me on the head with a stick yet.


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## geezer (Mar 20, 2010)

Xinglu said:


> LOL, I ask questions all class long.  Fortunately, he hasn't *hit me on the head with a stick yet*.



If he does, you'll be learning Eskrima too! LOL

Yeah, it sounds like your sifu is one of the more open minded ones. When I'm working with someone who throws an unorthodox technique _that works_, I don't just dismiss it. I have the students examine it by asking the following kinds of questions:

1. Was it effective? 
2. Was it the most efficient solution?...fastest? most direct? most economical?
3. Did it just depend on _brute force_, would it still work against a stronger person?
4. Did it leave you open to an easy counter?
5. Does it fit easily within the context of your WC stance, structure and movement so you can use it and still flow easily into the next technique or a follow up? 

If the answer to these kind of questions is _Yes_, then there really isn't a problem. In fact, if you are staying true to the core concepts of simplicity, efficiency, economy of motion, effectiveness and borrowing the force... I don't care where it comes from._ It's still Wing Chun._ Wing Chun isn't a "style", a "fashion" or a "look".._.it's an idea._ 

BTW i didn't make that last part up. I got it from my old sifu, a Yip Man disciple. Not a very nice man, but a brilliant Wing Chun practitioner... who sometimes said some really insightful things.


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## Xinglu (Mar 20, 2010)

geezer said:


> If he does, you'll be learning Eskrima too! LOL


LOL, yeah, or Zen Buddhism.  Either-way 




geezer said:


> Yeah, it sounds like your sifu is one of the more open minded ones. When I'm working with someone who throws an unorthodox technique _that works_, I don't just dismiss it. I have the students examine it by asking the following kinds of questions:
> 
> 1. Was it effective?
> 2. Was it the most efficient solution?...fastest? most direct? most economical?
> ...



That sounds like my Xingyi checklist!   I really am fortunate to have an open-mined Shifu who is willing to accept me and help me make WC work for me instead of me work for WC, if that makes any sense...


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## mook jong man (Mar 21, 2010)

I remember reading a quote by Wong Shun Leung and I think it went along the lines of " You should be a master of Wing Chun , not Wing Chun be a master of you " or at least words to that effect.


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## Domino (Mar 24, 2010)

Xinglu said:


> LOL, I ask questions all class long.  Fortunately, he hasn't hit me on the head with a stick yet.



hahaha thats great, havn't met a wing chun practitioner who hasn't had some form of question. And your wing chun will help you to deal with the stick too lol.


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## wingchuntraining (Mar 24, 2010)

Hi , this is my first post here and from what i have read looks like an awesome site.  I remember when i first started Wing Chun i was lucky in ine sense that it was my first martial art and did not know anything else -so i was working from a clear and empty mind.  

To me he concepts where applicable from day one and began a long journey as i watched my development progress. 

Always encourage to ask questions--the comment about the stick is hilarious though...


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## bully (Mar 25, 2010)

Hi WCT, welcome to the forum.

Good place in here, what about a little bit of background on yourself mate?

what lineage, how long you have been training etc??

Cheers

Bully


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## geezer (Mar 27, 2010)

wingchuntraining said:


> Hi , this is my first post here and from what i have read looks like an awesome site...



Hey Rick, with your positive attitude, you'll fit right in here! I see from your profile you're another Aussie like some of the other regular posters here. Terrific. Also, you describe your training as "Traditional Wing Chun". Do you mean that in the general sense, or more specifically as in reference to the William Cheung lineage?


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## wingchuntraining (Mar 28, 2010)

Hi there, yes my lineage does stem from Wiliam Cheung , however it is mainly from David Cheung. I first stated in the mid 90's..(YIKES that long ago-) then took a break for a while as i moved a bit over seas.  One things for sure the length of time does not matter it is the quality of training and committment that counts.  Learning a new skill is impressive, as well as achieving a high proficency -however the real test and  my real admiration goes to those who maintain that level of skill and proficency over a long period.  That is my aim..  and I don;t have to tell anyone hear..that is a long road.  Thanks to all for your welcoming comments look forward to learn further and assist wherever i can

Thanks


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