# Doce Pares from Luzon vs Cebu?



## arnisandyz (Aug 27, 2004)

i had the opportunity to meet, talk and train with Gat Puno Baet of the Garimot System last weekend.  He was showing me some of the Doce Pares that make up a portiion of thier ciriculum.  He showed me the 12 strikes, 12 postures, 12 footworks, etc.  He made it a point that the Doce Pares of Luzon that they follow is different from the Doce Pares of Cebu.  I'm not very familar with Doce Pares in general but from what he was showing me it seemed very largo (I could be wrong).

Anybody know the differences?

thanks

Andy


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## Cruentus (Aug 29, 2004)

Did you take a trip to the PI?


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## bart (Aug 29, 2004)

Hey There,

I've heard a bit about that. Gat Puno has mentioned that before in other threads. I've also heard about another Luzon Doce Pares in some things about Serrada. I personally have not seen it. That doesn't however mean that it doesn't exist. When I lived in the Philippines, I only heard about Doce Pares in Cebu. 

Doce Pares in Cebu has been around a while and so there have been a lot of different people who have come and gone from the club and style. And wherever they go, they very often call what they do Doce Pares, because that is what it is. Whether the Luzon style from Paete/Laguna and the Cebu style are related or not is unproven. Nobody knows for certain. Many people came to Cebu from all over the Philippines. The exchange, if there was one, may have gone in either direction. But again, that is conjecture.   

As for what's different, Doce Pares from Cebu is an open organization with nothing secret for the most part. GM Diony Canete said once at a seminar, "the secret is that there is no secret". It has established roots and has been in the open since 1932. It was formed after the closing of the Labangon Fencing Club and composed primarily of the same members. The Labangon Fencing Club was founded in 1920. Doce Pares has meetings, sign in sheets, group photos, and minutes from the meetings dating back to its beginning. They also have been registered with the local government in Cebu as official entities for for just as long. So the first big difference is that you can find it and do so pretty easily. They are not hiding or secretive.

Because it was originally a club where different styles could come together and practice and exchange, there is an extreme variety in what is "Doce Pares" now at this stage in its evolution. To see some that is long range makes perfect sense. GM Momoy Canete's Doce Pares San Miguel Style spends a good deal of time in the larga arena. Probably the best known over here in the States is the Corto Kurbada style of GM Cacoy Canete. But Doce Pares from Cebu has a strong tradition of all of the common ranges (larga, medio, and corto) and different striking preferences (curved, linear) with each teacher emphasizing different things.

Because of its openness there was a lot of high profile challenging going on between members and outsiders that caused a sort of rapid development of the art and a "synergy" that spawned many other styles such as Balintawak and influenced others like Lapunti and Black Eagle and even Modern Arnis. 

Of course it's hard to tell what the difference is when you mostly only know one side.


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## arnisandyz (Aug 29, 2004)

Tulisan said:
			
		

> Did you take a trip to the PI?



No, I met him at on of Datu Shishir's seminars in Florida.  Gat Puno Baet lives about 3 hours south of me.  ( I consider myself very lucky to have so many masters closeby!)

Thats good info Bart!  Next time I see him I will ask in more detail.  Its very interesting the many different styles from the different regions and even among towns in the same region.


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## OULobo (Aug 30, 2004)

For what it is worth, I remember reading somewhere about the Doce Pares Luzon. If I remember correctly, it was originally viewed as a bit of a myth. It was a group of fighters that had a special cave where they tested initiates with mechanical traps and trials, and the only way to get to the cave was to swim through an underwater cave. There were all kinds of fantastic stories that went along with the name, and fighters from around the islands went there to test their skills and join the ranks of the Doce Pares. The name Doce Pares was adopted because that was how many people were in the group. Sounded like a mix of Arthurian and Shoalin myths. Nice camp fire stories, but hard to believe.


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## Joe Eccleston (Aug 30, 2004)

I believe the 'Doce Pares' of Luzon account came from GM Angel Cabales (Serrada) of Stockton, California.

His teacher, Felicisiom Dizon was part of this Organization, which pre-dated the Doce Pares of Cebu (early 1930s).

Dizon was the man who went through the caves, monsters, and all other rites.  Definitely in the realm of fantasy (IMHO).

Did Mr. Gat Puno get this story from Cabales' book, or does he have another account of the Doce Pares of Luzon?:asian:


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## OULobo (Aug 31, 2004)

Joe Eccleston said:
			
		

> I believe the 'Doce Pares' of Luzon account came from GM Angel Cabales (Serrada) of Stockton, California.
> 
> His teacher, Felicisiom Dizon was part of this Organization, which pre-dated the Doce Pares of Cebu (early 1930s).
> 
> ...



I don't believe that it was mentioned that Mr. Puno related any of the fantastic myths, it was only stated that someone here learned a few techiniques from Mr. Puno, that Mr. Puno relates to DP Luzon. The more fablesque stories I read online somewhere, but I think you are right about the origin being Dizon.


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## Joe Eccleston (Aug 31, 2004)

Oh, sorry... Didn't read the begining thread, just read your last post OULobo.


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## OULobo (Aug 31, 2004)

Joe Eccleston said:
			
		

> Oh, sorry... Didn't read the begining thread, just read your last post OULobo.



No prob, just trying to keep facts straight and keep uneeded rumors from starting.


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## arnisandyz (Aug 31, 2004)

Hey guys, just for clarification Gat Puno = Master Teacher or GrandMaster, Abundio = first name, and Baet = sir name.  So its Gat Puno Baet of the Garimot System of Arnis. Mr Baet did not mention any fables or wild stories. He only showed me some techniques that he said came from Luzon Doce Pares (which he says is seperate from Cebu). It appears to me that he is a master of very high caliber and knowledge of the systems of Arnis from the North. He was 7 time champion at the Luzon Arnis festivals where they fight with no gear and live sticks.  Ama Guro Raffy Pambuan from the Pambuan system can back this up.  They both fought in the tournaments which pitted many different styles of the North (and some from central and south) together in one competition. Mr, Baet displayed several different styles which he says he "came across" during the competitions. He predicated certain techniques with "this is not my style, but this is how they do it in __________ (name of village). Some techniques looked so similar the average obsever probably couldn't tell the difference, but they are there.  I'm looking forward to learning more about Arnis of Luzon (my hometown is Santa Rosa) from both Gat Puno and Ama Guro Raffy.


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## Guro Harold (Aug 31, 2004)

arnisandyz said:
			
		

> Hey guys, just for clarification Gat Puno = Master Teacher or GrandMaster, Abundio = first name, and Baet = sir name.  So its Gat Puno Baet of the Garimot System of Arnis. Mr Baet did not mention any fables or wild stories. He only showed me some techniques that he said came from Luzon Doce Pares (which he says is seperate from Cebu). It appears to me that he is a master of very high caliber and knowledge of the systems of Arnis from the North. He was 7 time champion at the Luzon Arnis festivals where they fight with no gear and live sticks.  Ama Guro Raffy Pambuan from the Pambuan system can back this up.  They both fought in the tournaments which pitted many different styles of the North (and some from central and south) together in one competition. Mr, Baet displayed several different styles which he says he "came across" during the competitions. He predicated certain techniques with "this is not my style, but this is how they do it in __________ (name of village). Some techniques looked so similar the average obsever probably couldn't tell the difference, but they are there.  I'm looking forward to learning more about Arnis of Luzon (my hometown is Santa Rosa) from both Gat Puno and Ama Guro Raffy.



Increasing Envy of So. FL!!!


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## arnisandyz (Aug 31, 2004)

Palusut said:
			
		

> Increasing Envy of So. FL!!!



Hey Palisut, we missed you at the Gathering, but Ray said it was for a good reason. Hope things are going well.

Andy


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## Guro Harold (Aug 31, 2004)

arnisandyz said:
			
		

> Hey Palisut, we missed you at the Gathering, but Ray said it was for a good reason. Hope things are going well.
> 
> Andy


Thanks, Andy.

Yeah, I really missed going down there and believe me I wanted to be there.  I hope to make next time.

Harold


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## arnisandyz (Aug 31, 2004)

Palusut said:
			
		

> Increasing Envy of So. FL!!!



I love Florida!  There is always something going on. List of notable FMA Guros and Masters that live here (that I can remember!) sorry if I left anybody out or didn't get the titles correct! I've been working on convincing Roland to move here!

Datu Shishir Inocalla
Tuhon Ray Dionaldo
GM Fred Lazo
Ama Guro Raffy Pambuan
Gat Puno Baet
Guro Bram Frank
Guro Mike Sayoc

I believe the next big IMAF gathering will also be held here in Florida.


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## LAKANPOPOT (Sep 15, 2004)

arnisandyz said:
			
		

> Hey guys, just for clarification Gat Puno = Master Teacher or GrandMaster, Abundio = first name, and Baet = sir name.  So its Gat Puno Baet of the Garimot System of Arnis. Mr Baet did not mention any fables or wild stories. He only showed me some techniques that he said came from Luzon Doce Pares (which he says is seperate from Cebu). It appears to me that he is a master of very high caliber and knowledge of the systems of Arnis from the North. He was 7 time champion at the Luzon Arnis festivals where they fight with no gear and live sticks.  Ama Guro Raffy Pambuan from the Pambuan system can back this up.  They both fought in the tournaments which pitted many different styles of the North (and some from central and south) together in one competition. Mr, Baet displayed several different styles which he says he "came across" during the competitions. He predicated certain techniques with "this is not my style, but this is how they do it in __________ (name of village). Some techniques looked so similar the average obsever probably couldn't tell the difference, but they are there.  I'm looking forward to learning more about Arnis of Luzon (my hometown is Santa Rosa) from both Gat Puno and Ama Guro Raffy.



I got the chance to meet Gat Puno Baet in Oakland CA. He was a good teacher with much knowledge of the Philippine History and FMA. We hit it good because he met our GM(Ernesto Presas) at the Sokeship Gathering. Couple of years ago. And I mentioned I am from Calamba Laguna. He mentioned that his style of Doce Pares was 12 movements that are categorized as Major and minor. He also mentioned that you will see similarities in other styles and movements from other styles. That some of the masters had their favorites. And would use that movement to fight. 

Gat Puno also taught sinkoteros from the northern region of the Philippines. It was very Practical. I will say this most of what he showed in Arnis was Largo mano. Seems like this his specialty. But he is very proficient in Medio and corto range. Very well systemize way of teaching and funny too. 

If you meet him you gotta see his lubid/rope techniques. Superb! And his Harimau Buno. Which is divided into the Monkey style-defensive side and the Tiger-offensive side of the whole Buno system.


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