# The Wing Chun Curl



## Yoshiyahu (Dec 11, 2008)

Does anyone Know about the Curl. The Curl is a way your suppose to curl your chest in like its convex. An concave your back. It is suppose to allow you absorb blows to body to lessen the impact. The curl also gives you like an inch of width. It can also add power to your punches if you use it correctly. There are two ways you use your curl to increase power.

1.Going from straight body posistion to curl upon impact of your fist to his face.(Don't forget to Breathe).

2.Going from curl to straight body posistion upon impact of your fist to his face.(Use the Breath).


Please share what you are taught concerning the Curl in Wing Chun


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## Si-Je (Dec 11, 2008)

That's really cool! I'm going to try that one.  
The first one will hurt my neck, will try #2.  (since I'm a sloucher anyways!  May help me with correcting posture too)
#1 seems like it would just jam me up when punching.  Like collapsing.
But I've done #1 when hit or kicked in sparring, and it gives you alot of room to absorb a punch or kick.  (in other arts) espectially on people that "snap" or "pop" when they punch or kick.


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## Si-Je (Dec 11, 2008)

I think I know what your saying.  I'm just not familiar enough with it to type in coherantly in text.  Hubbie keeps confusing me with medical terminology, and I just don't think like that.  (I'm a computer techie! give me a break! lol!)  He's the one with the sports phyology minor, I just fix stuff with little pay and no thanks! lol!

I'm glad you brought this up though.  I totally forgot all about that detail in punching, since I've been out of training a bit.  A good reminder for me to play around with that concept.


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## Yoshiyahu (Dec 11, 2008)

Yea since the body is pushing the shoulders foward it allows you have like an inch more of arm length.


*Check out the pics of their chest curl inward:*











*Videos showing the curl being utilized*​Chum Kiu video showing Curl from the side view​http://video.google.com/videoplay?d...85&ei=4OhBSeedJIeQrAKfhP3oDA&q=Chum+Kiu&hl=en


Sifu Colin Ward has the curl when he goes against Ip Chun
http://video.google.com/videoplay?d...945&ei=N-lBSeT6A5HuqALusLH2DA&q=Chi+Sau&hl=en


The Curl should be natural(Practice makes natural)




 





Si-Je said:


> That's really cool! I'm going to try that one.
> The first one will hurt my neck, will try #2. (since I'm a sloucher anyways! May help me with correcting posture too)
> #1 seems like it would just jam me up when punching. Like collapsing.
> But I've done #1 when hit or kicked in sparring, and it gives you alot of room to absorb a punch or kick. (in other arts) espectially on people that "snap" or "pop" when they punch or kick.


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## mook jong man (Dec 11, 2008)

Nah we didn't have anything like that , in ours your chest is slightly pushed out , shoulders back , and a very straight back always .


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## Yoshiyahu (Dec 11, 2008)

What lineage are you?


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## mook jong man (Dec 12, 2008)

Tsui Seung Tin (Chu Shong Tin) through the late Sifu Jim Fung .


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## profesormental (Dec 12, 2008)

Greetings.

Actually, it is not a curl.

It is a realignment of the hips so that the spine is straight and the spine is vertical under the head.

Happens also with bending of the knees into stances, yet in a horse stance that is stable you will see it more explicitly.

Also, extension of reach comes from movement of the shoulder; if you move your shoulders to curl, you are destroying your stability needed to transfer the energy to target.

The movement is in the hips and bending of the knees.

Hope that helps.

Juan M. Mercado


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## seasoned (Dec 12, 2008)

Yoshiyahu said:


> Does anyone Know about the Curl. The Curl is a way your suppose to curl your chest in like its convex. An concave your back. It is suppose to allow you absorb blows to body to lessen the impact. The curl also gives you like an inch of width. It can also add power to your punches if you use it correctly. There are two ways you use your curl to increase power.
> 
> 1.Going from straight body posistion to curl upon impact of your fist to his face.(Don't forget to Breathe).
> 
> ...


 
This curl is not taught in Okinawan GoJu but it is reveled in kata Sanchin.

Many styles of MA turn the hips on a 45 degree angle to generate power from the hips. Okinawan GoJu is influenced greatly by CMA and therefore many of you will know about whipping power. Very penetrating , and disruptive to your opponents internal organs. Hard to explain on line and must be experienced for yourself. Power travels up and out through the hands. The shoulders play a very important part in the transfer, as they round forward and the chest sinks in. This movement stabilizes the whole area and allows power to travel down the arms and out of the hands. Try this exercise right now, stand up from your computer and go to the nearest wall. With your chest out, place your hands against the wall and push. Now from this same position with your chest out and your hands against the wall, drop your shoulders and sink your chest, and squeeze. If done in one fast motion you will feel this power. Weight lifters do this all the time when doing a bench press. They bring the weight down to their chest, which makes their chest expand, once the bar touches their chest they drive the bar up as they round the shoulders and sink the chest. Since the punch is a whole body experience you will find while standing and punching the hips will pivot up and the shoulder will drop and round while the chest sinks in and it will feel like you are squeezing. Do this fast and you will begin to feel a whip action. This action is not something you will feel right away. This body mechanics will allow you to generate power while you are in very close to your opponent. If you want to feel punching movements while lifting weights, then instead of a bar, try dumbbells while on a bench. Dumbbell benches will give you the whole movement from chest expansion to the rounding and sinking. As you breath, in weights, you will also breath this same way while punching. I hope this all makes sense. J


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## Si-Je (Dec 12, 2008)

mook jong man said:


> Nah we didn't have anything like that , in ours your chest is slightly pushed out , shoulders back , and a very straight back always .


 

That's what I work on most of the time.  We've drilled this curl while hubbie holds a kickng pad, as a drill to get more power in punching.  
But mainly we work on posture, chest out, shoulders back and head up.


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## mook jong man (Dec 12, 2008)

Sifu Jim once described it to us like this , he said that your structure is a bit like a plastic ruler standing on its end , when it is straight it is very strong and will withstand a fair amount of pressure on the end of it . But if it starts to get a bend in it the ruler will weaken dramatically and lose its structural integrity .


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## Si-Je (Dec 12, 2008)

Yes, and this is very good for withstanding a stronger opponent's force when deflecting.
But, I think this thread has made me realize what hubbies been trying to explain to me this week.
He says "I'm doing this curl thing already" (and I'm thinking my posture is 'rusty').  
But, this is what my body wants to do when we drill applications where I'm ending up body to body with him.
I felt like I was losing posture by crunching my torso when closer to him (which I am).  What I need to do, I think, is keep the "curl" close into him, just bring the shoulders down out of my ears.  
It feels like the boxing position my dad taught me when I was a little kid (He boxed for the Navy in Nam) used when your about to be in a "boxers clinch" so you can get more power with a body uppercut to get yourself off the ropes, or out of a corner.
Anyways, maybe I could keep the curl when close in just drop the shoulders, that's what's putting to much pressure on my neck.  Then when I strike from so close in be able to expand with my spine to get more forward force or power in striking from up close?  And not feel so "jammed" up against hubbie.


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## Yoshiyahu (Dec 12, 2008)

That was well explained. Its funny how so many styles interelate!





seasoned said:


> This curl is not taught in Okinawan GoJu but it is reveled in kata Sanchin.
> 
> Many styles of MA turn the hips on a 45 degree angle to generate power from the hips. Okinawan GoJu is influenced greatly by CMA and therefore many of you will know about whipping power. Very penetrating , and disruptive to your opponents internal organs. Hard to explain on line and must be experienced for yourself. Power travels up and out through the hands. The shoulders play a very important part in the transfer, as they round forward and the chest sinks in. This movement stabilizes the whole area and allows power to travel down the arms and out of the hands. Try this exercise right now, stand up from your computer and go to the nearest wall. With your chest out, place your hands against the wall and push. Now from this same position with your chest out and your hands against the wall, drop your shoulders and sink your chest, and squeeze. If done in one fast motion you will feel this power. Weight lifters do this all the time when doing a bench press. They bring the weight down to their chest, which makes their chest expand, once the bar touches their chest they drive the bar up as they round the shoulders and sink the chest. Since the punch is a whole body experience you will find while standing and punching the hips will pivot up and the shoulder will drop and round while the chest sinks in and it will feel like you are squeezing. Do this fast and you will begin to feel a whip action. This action is not something you will feel right away. This body mechanics will allow you to generate power while you are in very close to your opponent. If you want to feel punching movements while lifting weights, then instead of a bar, try dumbbells while on a bench. Dumbbell benches will give you the whole movement from chest expansion to the rounding and sinking. As you breath, in weights, you will also breath this same way while punching. I hope this all makes sense. J


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## seasoned (Dec 12, 2008)

Yoshiyahu said:


> That was well explained. Its funny how so many styles interelate!


 
It is also not so funny, how so much is lost, but for a few.


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## Si-Je (Dec 12, 2008)

seasoned said:


> It is also not so funny, how so much is lost, but for a few.


 

That's why we should all share.  If all the WC/WT people got together and combined everything it would be a totally new system.   If everyone from other arts were more open to sharing "secrets" with one another, they'd find that these "secrets" aren't so secret, and would benefit everyone.


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## Yoshiyahu (Dec 12, 2008)

Thats great Si-Je

By the way what does Si Jeeee mean anyway?





Si-Je said:


> That's why we should all share. If all the WC/WT people got together and combined everything it would be a totally new system. If everyone from other arts were more open to sharing "secrets" with one another, they'd find that these "secrets" aren't so secret, and would benefit everyone.


 
Seasoned what do you believe was lost?


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## Si-Je (Dec 12, 2008)

Yoshiyahu said:


> Thats great Si-Je
> 
> By the way what does Si Jeeee mean anyway?
> 
> ...


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## Yoshiyahu (Dec 12, 2008)

What is rep power?

How come you have three rep power and I only have one?




Si-Je said:


> Yoshiyahu said:
> 
> 
> > Thats great Si-Je
> ...


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## Si-Je (Dec 13, 2008)

Because I'm mouthy and uppitty like that.  lol!
It's your "reputation" rating.  Mine was a little higher until I lost my temper with a law enforcement officer who was calling me a criminal for the way I teach women's self defense.  
Had to post Texas law to "prove my innocence" to a guy from another state.  
Didn't mean to get so mad, but I don't like being called a criminal when I'm trying to help people.  
Plus, I think the alot of the women here ignore me.  
Oh well.
Your rep will increase.  When people leave positive comments on your profile for posts you make, it will go up.
Here's the video that the gal's don't like so much, because it's so aggressive.  They want to run away sooner.  I say, why run away when they can still run after you?  make 'em limp after you.  





 




Yoshiyahu said:


> What is rep power?
> 
> How come you have three rep power and I only have one?
> 
> ...


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## Yoshiyahu (Dec 13, 2008)

Why did the uppity guys call you a criminal how were you teaching the women!


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## mook jong man (Dec 13, 2008)

Yoshiyahu said:


> Why did the uppity guys call you a criminal how were you teaching the women!


 
I think we better not go there , she won't be able to help herself and she will end up losing more rep power lol.


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## Si-Je (Dec 13, 2008)

It's nice to be loved! lol!
I want to teach the women to follow through more when they defend against an attack.  To attack their attacker, and not run until he is toast.  So he can't follow you as you run for some supposed "help" that everyone teaches women to do.
What help?!?  Is Dirty Harry in town?  No one's gonna help you, to think like that is to encourage death.
I quess in other states or countries folks aren't allowed to thoroughly defend themseves without legal repurcussions.  But, still, the mentality is still silly.  That a woman shouldn't be allowed to finish off an attacker.  That for her to finish a guy is excessive force.
Like that Dr. Ruthless lady's video.  That's the kind of class I want.
(actually I just realized!  If hubbie gets "challenged" where he teaches that would be covered under the self-defense law becasue it's a place of business.  Groovy!   lol!
See, I didn't get mad.  I'm a good girl! I can curb my temper, your not gonna get my goat the same way twice! lol!


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## Yoshiyahu (Dec 13, 2008)

Too me Wing Chun is for fighting...Its like bringing a broadsword to knife fight. If some big giant man says he wants rape little ole 5'1" 100lbs jane. Then Jane needs to pull out the broadsword. If my wife is out in the world an some man tries to rape her. She should cut his balls off,Cave in his apples apple,Poke in his eyes,break is knees in, Trist off his arm or break the arm at the elbow,Scrape skin off his knee an crush his ankle. What ever it takes to get free of him dishonoring me and my wife. If She is out at a grocery store or at work or college she shouldn't have to fear being attack....

We need more women like Si-Je to teach women how to attack relentless and totally destroy their attacker. Fighting is not a game. Your foe is either trying to Hurt you,Rape you or kill you. Sometimes all three. I am sure if man told the average straight man I am gonna beat you up an then rape you once I got you down. That man is not gonna fight to just protect himself. He is gonna fight for his manhood and life. The Two are interchangable. He is gonna do everything he can to destroy is attacker/raper. If he can he might even do permanent damage to the guy under the treat of exteme circumstances and sexual violation. 


I totally endorse ruthless,dirty, and maiming their Assassin of Character.

*Wing Chun is not to* 
be a bully,
Kill the innocent,
Become a tyrant
strike fear in others
rob the poor
etc.

Thats is not what Wing Chun is about.







Si-Je said:


> It's nice to be loved! lol!
> I want to teach the women to follow through more when they defend against an attack. To attack their attacker, and not run until he is toast. So he can't follow you as you run for some supposed "help" that everyone teaches women to do.
> What help?!? Is Dirty Harry in town? No one's gonna help you, to think like that is to encourage death.
> I quess in other states or countries folks aren't allowed to thoroughly defend themseves without legal repurcussions. But, still, the mentality is still silly. That a woman shouldn't be allowed to finish off an attacker. That for her to finish a guy is excessive force.
> ...


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## Si-Je (Dec 13, 2008)

Wow! you just laid it all on the table.  And totally went there. 
I think people are afraid to seriously discuss this issue with that mindset.  It's like their afraid to court or dealing with the legal system more than being killed or raped.
I always tell folks, "look, you have to survive to make it to court."  If your worried about legal issues it will make you hesitate and possibly get you killed.  
I'm not meaning to tell people that this attitude should be taken with every situation of conflict.  

i.e. your family member or friend is drunk and just being a jerk, sure you'd take it easier on them. 
or that one should be so ruthless even with minor conflicts with strangers that want to talk trash and egg you into a fight.
But, when It truely comes down to one being in immediate danger and there is no where to run to and their trying to kill or rape you or worse; then that situation should be handled with no remorse, no hesitations, no doubt, and no mercy.  
it's an ugly topic, an ugly situation, and an ugly mindset, but what is even uglier is the fact that 1 in 5 women in the U.S. have been assaulted, or raped, that spousal abuse is rampant and punishment ineffective, that women are still not given the equality of men in the fact that it is EXPECTED that they should run like scared rabbits, and that they aren't encouraged or supported when they do survive or defend themselves in these encounters.  It makes me feel like the "moral majority" believes that I don't have the human right to survive and defend myself and my family, and that does anger me.

But, not today.


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## Yoshiyahu (Dec 13, 2008)

Well you gave me an idea. I will give a list of times when not to fight?

Someone stands outside your house and yells obscenities and threathens you. Just call the police on him or her. But if that person kicks in my door and runs over to me. My first reaction is to shoot him with the 44. If I cant get to the 44. I will fight him possibly throw him to the ground. so I run and grab the 44 then I shoot him in the head. Shouldn't have kicked in the door idiot. I rather shoot you in the head than use wing chun you. I stay in carry and conceal state too. So same applies for of my house too.

Someone at a club threathen you and your wife trying to get you to fight. He calls you punk and calls your woman a Biatch and say your yellow and scared. Just walk away. Don't get locked into a fools argument. You can pull your cell phone out and call 911. That way if you shoot him atleast you call the authorites first.

Now If that same person follows me to car. An tries to put his hands on me or my girl I am gonna hopefully try to knock him down on the ground. Pop the trunk and out comes the threesectional staff, my brick, or my baseball bat. An I going to hit him an his friends that try to jump in. Usually when someone is trying to start a fight they usually have friends ready to jump you. So If I am close enough to my car where I can run to it and pop the trunk. Then I will fight them. If not able to get to my car; Than I am kicking nutts, Punching throats, fingers and thumbs go into eyes, kicking knees. Kicking the sides of shins and knees. Stomping ankles and chainpunching noses. You get the idea.

You at a grocery store someone tries Argue with you over a parking space they wanted that you got. Say sorry and walk away. I don't think they will try to hit you if you walk away. Now if you argue with them, thats adding fuel to fire. If they continue to follow you and argue, walk over to where people are, an say "if you don't leave me alone I am going to call the police." That way you got witnesses that a person is harassing you. If the idiot follows you into a store walk over to the cashiers and let them know that your being harass, And can you speak to a manager. Get innocent body standards involved. I doubt the idoit is going to hit you now. But if they do an all these people see that your trying to advoid him and walking away from him than you got a license to kill him if he attacks you. But if he attacks you in the store don't hit back try to block an get out of the way. Then run away. Once you run away an he commence to chase you, now he has engage stalking and seeking to do you bodily harm. Run fast enough to give the appearance your afraid of him. Run some to place where your cornered and many witnesses are around. Then when he close in on you. Beg for him to stop say please I am sorry for taking your parking space. Please don't hurt me just leave me alone. Please Don't hurt me. Start screaming for help. Someone will call the police on a cell phone. If idiot is foolish enough to hit you while your corner. Then commence to grabing the hand that struck you in the face while taking your other hand to secure the elbow break the elbow at the same time stomp the knee in from the side(Scrape the shin) and move to neck to either rip the throat or break the neck. That way you have open and shut case. Self Defense. Many witnesses saw you run away. Others saw you scream for help and begged and plead to be let go.He had intent to do you bodily harm and wouldn't relent when you asked for forgiveness and freedom. He tried to get you. You fought out of fear for your life and duress. You were afraid for your life because he came with premeditated intent he stalked you and chased you and cornered you. Not only did he Verbally Assault you but he phyiscally tried to batter you. So when you go to court all those witnesses testify that dead man gave chase.The Dead man said he was going to hurt you. The dead man curse you when you pleaded for your life. The dead man didn't care you were scared of him. The dead man will have no witnesses nor will he be able to speak ill of you or plead his case because he is dead and he stalked you an sought to assualt you. Self Defense Close case.

Another incident. Some guys are sitting on your car. You got your daughter with you. They drunk and start cursing you or cursing your little daughter. Walk far enough that you don't have to attack them. Call the police on a cell phone. If you don't have cell phone asked someone to let you borrow one, or go to a payphone. Give your location and license number on your car. Wait far away from your car just close enough to where you can see the guys but not close enough for them run over to you an hit you. When the police comes walk over to your car tell them what happen. If the guys continue to curse. The cops are going to take them down. If the guys are some hard core crips or bloods with knives and brass knuckles and they think they going to beat you up infront of cops. Well Now Bil Gee to everyone throats. If they try to beat you up and the cops Only fight the ones who are fighting you. Don't help the police. Just elimnate those trying to hurt you. Your only focus is self preservation and protection of your daugther. Now after their elimnated move away an let the police finish adminstering takedowns and handcuffing procedure. Do not engage or assist the cops. Now if the police subdue their attackers before you. Then allow the police to assist you once they have taking the threat away move away. Now if your attackers or too much for the police an the cops fall, then you can continue to maime the attackers with police there. If you finish subduing your attackers first an the police still have not completely handcuff the Gangsters yet do not assist them until their attackers subdue them an the cops fall. Wait for attackers to make a move against you. That way if one of the police officers is still alive he will see you getting surrounded or flanked and hear you pleading and begging please just let me go. I don't want no problems please don't hurt me. When one moves in with a weapon maime him take his weapon and use it on the rest of them. That way if one of cops survives when you go to court you got a cop on your side along with camera that in the police car and besides some cops have recordings in their uniform kinda like a wire. So it will be heard in court you begging for your life. Please don't kill me. Then once you kill them its an open and shut case. Break every last one of their necks. Rip out their throats. Claw their faces, Push in their noses. What ever it takes.


Do you guys want more stories on when its okay to use your wing chun and when its not!





Si-Je said:


> Wow! you just laid it all on the table. And totally went there.
> I think people are afraid to seriously discuss this issue with that mindset. It's like their afraid to court or dealing with the legal system more than being killed or raped.
> I always tell folks, "look, you have to survive to make it to court." If your worried about legal issues it will make you hesitate and possibly get you killed.
> I'm not meaning to tell people that this attitude should be taken with every situation of conflict.
> ...


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## Si-Je (Dec 14, 2008)

lol! That's very good!  You've had experience with this, no?
Very cool stuff.


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## Yoshiyahu (Dec 14, 2008)

No No, not me I always tell me I am lover not a fighter. I just say no to violence. The only violence I see is on X-box, Television and what hear in rap music. Lol....ha ha......

I am glad you like the list. I hope others add to list. I would love to hear thier opinion?



Si-Je said:


> lol! That's very good! You've had experience with this, no?
> Very cool stuff.


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## Si-Je (Dec 14, 2008)

I think people are losing their ever livin' minds these days!  We used to go out to the sports bars and listen to the live bands that played on the weekends, play pool and such.  But not anymore, I don't like hanging out like I did back in the day.
People just trip, and bother my buzz.  (I really miss pool too! And live music!)  It's like they don't go out to have fun anymore, they just have to mess with people.
They even get rude and pissy at the malls, and supermarkets to the point it just doesn't make any sense.  But, I think folks are just ticked off in general these days with the way things have been going for the past 8 years. 
I saw this guy yell and scream profanity at this gas station cashier just because he's register ran out of paper and couldn't print a reciept for him.  He was complaining about gas prices too.  He just wouldn't stop cussing him out and started to move over the counter like he was going to pull him out from behind it and beat him down.  I was in line.  He verbally threatened the cashier that he was going to kick his ****.
I said, "You sure are really angry over a little receipt.  Maybe this day isn't going well for you.  Everyone is unhappy with the gas prices.  Their's no reason to take it out on some poor cashier."  
He turned like he was going to scream some more until he saw the now very very long line, several women a couple of kids and such in line just looking at him in horror.  He mumbled something, and just left slamming the door.  (I didn't know you could slam those glass doors so hard! lol!)  Sometimes when people act insane it's just that they don't have an outlet for thier outrage.  He's mad about gas prices makeing him broke, and figured he can't get at the big oil companies, so he'll just pick on the little ol' gas station cashier.  What a wimp!


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## Yoshiyahu (Dec 15, 2008)

Everyone doesn't take hard times very well. Accept for the black people who live in ghettos. They no whats it like to not have. But now alot people are having to go with out. Something they never experience are fathom. This is scary and hard to adapt too. Thats why many people just commit sucide when times get rough. As for the man he is A Typical some people are just mean no matter what. Especially hear in Missouri. Oh we aint gonna talk about New York attitudes. But if your in Texas you would think he would be more laid back. I got two cousins who live in Texas. They pretty laid back.


But as for Gas Prices all praise go to the Most High Yahweh because I haven't been spending over $20 recently to fill my tank up. I was spending $45 sometimes twice a week to fill my gas tank up. Now its down to like 18 something... I am overjoyed. Plust the gas seems to last alot longer. Before By the third or fourth day I was nearing Empty. An thats even with out running the Air Conditioning system in summer time. Gas Prices here have went down significantly. I pray they stay down. Its a blessing. Times are starting to get better. I hope people realize it and start treating one another kindly. 

But as for going out. Some people just like to get drunk and go out cause trouble its fun for them. My younger Wing Chun brother was that way. Although he wasn't drunk He would often be looking for trouble. We go to clubs in When were in high school. If we seen kids from school who were thugs or gang members my Sidai would often say things to them to start a fight. Everyone always walked away and no one ever tried to jump us. But it wasn't for his lack of trying. I told him many times we can't just go around challenging people because their thugs or gangsters. I told him he had to get that fight mentality out of him. An learn how to go out meet the girls dance and have fun. I would always say look at all these women. Let thugs be thugs and lets do what men do. But it took years to grow out of that. I am sure if he really did grow out of it. He just stop going to clubs when he got religion. Lol....

But people do not know how to enjoy themselves your right. I went to movies with my wife last month. These teenagers were sitting right behind us. They we loud. An they kept kicking my seat and her seat. I turn around an looked at them several times to see if they would realize they were kicking my seat. Than eventually I asked the young girls to stop kicking my seat. My Wife was getting irritable and made the movie alot less enjoyable. But it was still a great movie even with the loud mouth ghetto girls behind us who kept kicking our seats from behind like they feet have no self control.

Both adults and children lack home training if you asked me. People don't respect others. Thats the problem. Now the guy at the gas station would have been upset if the cahsier had pull out a can of whoop **** on him. He would be ready to press charges and everything wouldn't he?




Si-Je said:


> I think people are losing their ever livin' minds these days! We used to go out to the sports bars and listen to the live bands that played on the weekends, play pool and such. But not anymore, I don't like hanging out like I did back in the day.
> People just trip, and bother my buzz. (I really miss pool too! And live music!) It's like they don't go out to have fun anymore, they just have to mess with people.
> 
> They even get rude and pissy at the malls, and supermarkets to the point it just doesn't make any sense. But, I think folks are just ticked off in general these days with the way things have been going for the past 8 years.
> ...


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## Si-Je (Dec 15, 2008)

Yoshiyahu said:


> Everyone doesn't take hard times very well. Accept for the black people who live in ghettos. They no whats it like to not have. But now alot people are having to go with out. Something they never experience are fathom. This is scary and hard to adapt too. Thats why many people just commit sucide when times get rough. As for the man he is A Typical some people are just mean no matter what.
> 
> Both adults and children lack home training if you asked me. People don't respect others. Thats the problem. Now the guy at the gas station would have been upset if the cahsier had pull out a can of whoop **** on him. He would be ready to press charges and everything wouldn't he?


 
True, "ghetto" folks seem to have more fortitude in their philosophy in life.  Their more accepting of what comes and that allows them to adapt to the situation more sometimes.  Their more accepting of hard times and just do what they need to do to get on.
I see many people that have alot still seem to want more, and they allow their money and things define who and what they are as a person.  It becomes the basis for their self-worth.  And when that is jepordized they feel lost, afraid, and less of a person.
It's just stuff, money.  Not the measurement of you as a human being.  "the things you own end up owning you."

Gas and things got so expensive for us that we couldn't afford to inspect the car, put gas in it, repair minor repairs, fix a flat, or even get an oil change.  It took every last bit of our extra cash.  It broke down and the tags were out, wouldn't start.  Hubbie started takeing the bus to work and riding his bike.  The car got towed by the apartments.  It was a relief!  Half my irritation and troubles left with the tow truck man! lol!
It just simplified our life.
I do miss my car, but it's just not worth it right now.

And people don't seem to respect others, but they don't seem to respect themselves.  If I had treated someone like that I would have been mortified with myself.
I think people need to learn more how to relate to eachother and express themselves in a more coherant manner when upset.  Sure, I've got quite a temper somtimes, but I usually address the real issue of my agitation to the source OF my agitation.  But, it seems people are more afraid to do that because it's a face to face thing, not very popular these days of flying electrons in the sky "connecting" everyone so well.

A simple statement of, "man! I am really frustrated!"  Or, this makes me really angry!" can settle down alot of emotions and get them into a more logical scenario.  
But, people don't talk like that, and they look at you funny when you do.  Or say something smart.  But, that's okay, you say it for yourself, not others.  That's the whole reason for EXPRESSION of any nature.


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## Yoshiyahu (Dec 15, 2008)

Why do people look at you funny when you say what is frustrating you?




Si-Je said:


> True, "ghetto" folks seem to have more fortitude in their philosophy in life. Their more accepting of what comes and that allows them to adapt to the situation more sometimes. Their more accepting of hard times and just do what they need to do to get on.
> I see many people that have alot still seem to want more, and they allow their money and things define who and what they are as a person. It becomes the basis for their self-worth. And when that is jepordized they feel lost, afraid, and less of a person.
> It's just stuff, money. Not the measurement of you as a human being. "the things you own end up owning you."
> 
> ...


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## Si-Je (Dec 15, 2008)

Sometimes they do.  I guess because their not used to it.  Or don't care.


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## Yoshiyahu (Dec 15, 2008)

Not use to what?





Si-Je said:


> Sometimes they do. I guess because their not used to it. Or don't care.


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## Mystic Wolf (Dec 15, 2008)

The Wing Chun curl is also known as The Wing Chun flex.
Reason is it is the flextion of the spine and when you srike, you extend, known as the extension.


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## Si-Je (Dec 15, 2008)

Yoshiyahu said:


> Not use to what?


 

Not used to someone honestly expressing their feelings and relating to others in a at least half-way intelligent manner.  Everyone has to be hip, and say something snappy all the time, usually to avoid true dealings of people and feelings, or thoughts and opinions.
Or either they just don't really give a d*mn how I be feeling, and can't believe that I bothered to share with them. lol!


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## Yoshiyahu (Dec 15, 2008)

Please share some links that speak about the Wing Chun Flex. I have never heard this terminology before?




Mystic Wolf said:


> The Wing Chun curl is also known as The Wing Chun flex.
> Reason is it is the flextion of the spine and when you srike, you extend, known as the extension.


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## Mystic Wolf (Dec 15, 2008)

Yoshiyahu said:


> Please share some links that speak about the Wing Chun Flex. I have never heard this terminology before?


 

With sports physiology and sports medicine we deal with alot of terminology in the sports field.  I use these terminologies in teaching in my classes, because some students are interested in becoming personal trainers and going into the medical field.  
This is a sport physology term for the body position of the "wing chun curl".


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## Yoshiyahu (Dec 15, 2008)

Do you also practice Wing Chun?




Mystic Wolf said:


> With sports physiology and sports medicine we deal with alot of terminology in the sports field. I use these terminologies in teaching in my classes, because some students are interested in becoming personal trainers and going into the medical field.
> This is a sport physology term for the body position of the "wing chun curl".


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## Mystic Wolf (Dec 15, 2008)

Yoshiyahu said:


> Do you also practice Wing Chun?


 
Why yes, I do.  For about 13 years now.  Yes, I teach Si-Je.


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## Yoshiyahu (Dec 15, 2008)

Oh Excellent are you Si-Je Hubbie she talks so fondly about?


I have been practicing Wing Chun for about 16 years now....




Mystic Wolf said:


> Why yes, I do. For about 13 years now. Yes, I teach Si-Je.


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## Si-Je (Dec 15, 2008)

No, he's my other hubbie. lol!  hahah!


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## Yoshiyahu (Dec 15, 2008)

Now I am confused...Are you a Polyandrous?

I am Polygynous my self!!!
 HaHa Ha ha lol...No one probably has no idea of what I mean?

Check out http://www.merriam-webster.com/http://www.M-W.com






Si-Je said:


> No, he's my other hubbie. lol! hahah!


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## mook jong man (Dec 15, 2008)

Si-Je said:


> No, he's my other hubbie. lol! hahah!


 
What a great strategy two husbands , that way when you divorce , you can take em both to the cleaners and double your money lol .


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## Yoshiyahu (Dec 15, 2008)

Aww so sad. That makes me so sad.

What if Si-Je makes more money. Would both men get to split up half of her income? :whip1:




mook jong man said:


> What a great strategy two husbands , that way when you divorce , you can take em both to the cleaners and double your money lol .


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## Si-Je (Dec 16, 2008)

Don't be sad.  Si-Je doesn't make money like she's allergic to it!  lol!  Other hubbies are Harrison Ford, Rutger Hauer, Gabrial Byrne.  But, Mystic Wolf is my #1 Hubbie.  lol!


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## Yoshiyahu (Dec 16, 2008)

ha Ha so silly...


These forums are really popping huh?




Si-Je said:


> Don't be sad. Si-Je doesn't make money like she's allergic to it! lol! Other hubbies are Harrison Ford, Rutger Hauer, Gabrial Byrne. But, Mystic Wolf is my #1 Hubbie. lol!


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## Si-Je (Dec 16, 2008)

Was working on drilling 
Tan sau
chit sau
pak sau
etc...sau
with punch and trying out that curl (or flexing) concept with extention of the spine when I punched 20 times each side (actually 40, deflect with front and back hand)
Trying to get a more natural feel for it before I actually hit something hard.
Man, that made my arms tired.  couldn't hardly pick up kiddo for naptime after that.
Good drill idea, Yoshi, will keep playing with that.


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## Yoshiyahu (Dec 16, 2008)

If its something new. Also remember to start off doing it slow and soft. Remember your first trying to get muscle memory. Once you become comfortable add force. But do it slow and concentrate on proper technique at first.


What is Chit sau?

etc sau thats funny!!!



Si-Je said:


> Was working on drilling
> Tan sau
> chit sau
> pak sau
> ...


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## mook jong man (Dec 16, 2008)

Yoshiyahu said:


> If its something new. Also remember to start off doing it slow and soft. Remember your first trying to get muscle memory. Once you become comfortable add force. But do it slow and concentrate on proper technique at first.
> 
> 
> What is Chit sau?
> ...


 
In my lineage it is a downward deflection to stop an attempted uppercut to the stomach .
 You know the bit in the first part of the SLT form where the hands are crossed down low to define the centerline , its that bit , but in application you do it with one hand whilst the other punches.
It also appears in the last bit of the form sometimes known as the washing hands sequence .


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## Yoshiyahu (Dec 16, 2008)

Its also called Gum Sau...

*Siu Nim Tao (**Xiao Nian Tou)*
* -  Common meaning  -*
*Sil Lim Tao*

*# 1*
*Hoi Yee Jee Kim Yeung Ma*
(Kai Er Zi Qian Yang Ma)
Opening trapezoidal clamping goat horse
Opening stance
1
Ha Cha Sao (Xia Cha Shou)
Low crossed arms
Cross arms
2
Seung Cha Sao (Shuang Cha Shou)
High crossed arms
Bring them up
3
Seung Sao Kuen (Shuang Shou Quan)
Double closing fists
Make fists, withdraw
4




Jo Yaat Jee Chung Kuen
(Zuo Ri Zi Chong Quan)
Left vertical thrusting punch
Left punch
5
Jo Tan Sao (Zuo Tan Shou)
Left dispersing arm
Left Tan Sao
6
Jo Huen Sao (Zuo Juan Shou)
Left circling hand
Left Huen Sao
7
Jo Sao Kuen (Zuo Shou Quan) 
Left closing fist
Make a fist, withdraw
8






Repeat on Right side
9-12




Jo Tan Sao (Zuo Tan Shou)
Left dispersing arm
Left Tan Sao
13
Jo Huen Sao (Zuo Juan Shou)
Left circling arm
Huen Sao
14
Jo Chum Sao (Zuo Chen Shou)
Left sinking hand
Drop hand
15
Jo Wu Sao (Zuo Hu Shou)
Left protecting hand
Wu Sao
16
Jo Fook Sao (Zuo Fu Shou)
Left controlling arm
Fook Sao
17
Jo Chum Sao (Zuo Chen Shou)
Left sinking hand
Drop hand
18
Jo Wu Sao (Zuo Hu Shou)
Left protecting hand
Huen Sao to Wu Sao
19
Jo Fook Sao (Zuo Fu Shou)
Left controlling arm
Fook Sao
20
Jo Chum Sao (Zuo Chen Shou)
Left sinking hand
Drop hand
21
Jo Wu Sao (Zuo Hu Shou)
Left protecting hand
Huen Sao to Wu Sao
22
Jo Fook Sao (Zuo Fu Shou)
Left controlling arm
Fook Sao
23
Jo Chum Sao (Zuo Chen Shou)
Left sinking hand
Drop hand
24
Jo Wu Sao (Zuo Hu Shou)
Left protecting hand
Huen Sao to Wu Sao
25
Jo Pak Sao (Zuo Pai Shou)
Left slapping hand
Pak Sao
26
Jo Jing Jeung (Zhuo Zeng Jeung)
Left straight palm
Left palm strike
27
Jo Tan Sao (Zuo Tan Shou)
Left dispersing arm
Tan Sao
28
Jo Huen Sao (Zuo Juan Shou)
Left circling hand
Huen Sao
29
Jo Sao Kuen (Zuo Shou Quan)
Left closing fist
Make a fist, withdraw
30






Repeat on Right side
31-48
*# 2*

Jo Wang Gum Sao (Zuo Heng Jin Shou)
Left side pinning arm
Left Gum Sao
49
Yao Wang Gum Sao (You Heng Jin Shou)
Right side pinning arm
Right Gum Sao
50
Seung Hao Gum Sao 
(Shuang Hou Jin Shou)
Double back pinning arms
Double rear palm strike
51
Seung Jin Gum Sao 
(Shuang Qian Jin Shou)
Double front pinning arms
Double front palm strike
52
Seung Lan Sao (Shuang Lan Shou)
Double barring arms
Bring arms up
53
Seung Fak Sao (Shuang Fu Shou)
Double whisking arms
Double Fut Sao
54
Seung Lan Sao (Shuang Lan Shou)
Double barring arms
Bring arms back
55
Seung Chum Sao (Shuang Chen Shou)
Double sinking arms
Drop both hands
56
Seung Tan Sao (Shuang Tan Shou)
Double dispersing arms
Double Tan Sao
57
Seung Jut Sao (Shuang Jut Shou)
Double choking arms
Double Jut Sao
58
Seung Biu Jee (Shuang Biao Shou)
Double darting fingers
Double Bil Jee
59
*Seung Cheung Kiu Gum Sao*
(Shuang Chang Qiao Jin Shou) 
Double long bridge pinning arms
Double Gum Sao
60
Seung Ding Sao (Shuo Ding Shou)
Double butting arms
Double Tarn Sao
61
Seung Sao Kuen (Shuang Shou Quan)
Double closing fists
Make fists, withdraw
62
*# 3*

Jo Pak Sao (Zuo Pai Shou)
Left slapping hand
Left Pak Sao
63
Jo Juk Jeung (Zuo Ce Zhang)
Left side palm
Left palm strike
64
Jo Tan Sao (Zuo Tan Shou)
Left dispersing arm
Tan Sao
65
Jo Huen Sao (Zuo Juan Shou)
Left circling hand
Huen Sao
66
Jo Sao Kuen (Zuo Shou Quan)
Left closing fist
Make a fist, withdraw
67






Repeat on Right side
68-72




Jo Tan Sao (Zuo Tan Shou)
Left dispersing arm
Left Tan Sao
73
Jo Gaun Sao (Zuo Geng Shou)
Left cultivating arm
Garn Sao
74
Jo Tan Sao (Zuo Tan Shou)
Left dispersing arm
Tan Sao
75
Jo Huen Sao (Zuo Juan Shou)
Left circling hand
Huen Sao
76
Jo Dai Jeung (Zuo Di Zhang)
Left low palm
Left low palm strike
77
Jo Tan Sao (Zuo Tan Shou)
Left dispersing arm
Tan Sao
78
Jo Noi Huen Sao (Zuo Nei Juan Shou)
Left inside circling hand
Heun Sao
79
Jo Sao Kuen (Zuo Shou Quan)
Left closing fist
Make a fist, withdraw
80






Repeat on right side
81-88




Jo Bong Sao (Zuo Bang Shou)
Left wing arm
Left Bong Sao
89
Jo Tan Sao (Zuo Tan Shou)
Left dispersing arm
Tan Sao
90
Jo Tok Jeung (Zuo Tuo Zhang)
Left butting palm
Low palm strike
91
Jo Tan Sao (Zuo Tan Shou)
Left dispersing arm
Tan Sao
92
Jo Huen Sao (Zuo Juan Shou)
Left circling hand
Huen Sao
93
Jo Sao Kuen (Zuo Shou Quan)
Left closing fist
Make a fist, withdraw
94






Repeat on right side
95-100




Jo Tut Sao (Zuo Tuo Shou)
Left freeing arm
Strike down with right hand while wthdrawing left arm
101
Yao Tut Sao (You Tuo Shou)
Right freeing arm
Strike down with left hand while withdrawing right arm
102
Jo Tut Sao (Zuo Tuo Shou)
Left freeing arm
Strike down with right hand while withdrawing left arm
103
*Yao Lien Wan Kuen* (You Lian Huan Quan)
Left linked chain punch
Left punch, Right punch, Left punch
104
Yao Tan Sao (You Tan Shou) 
Dispersing arm
Tan Sao
105
Yao Huen Sao (You Juan Shou) 
Circling hand
Huen Sao
106
Yao Sao Kuen (You Shou Quan) 
Right closing fist
Make fist, withdraw
107
Sao Ma (Shou Ma)
Closing horse
To attention
108




mook jong man said:


> In my lineage it is a downward deflection to stop an attempted uppercut to the stomach .
> You know the bit in the first part of the SLT form where the hands are crossed down low to define the centerline , its that bit , but in application you do it with one hand whilst the other punches.
> It also appears in the last bit of the form sometimes known as the washing hands sequence .


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## Si-Je (Dec 16, 2008)

mook jong man said:


> In my lineage it is a downward deflection to stop an attempted uppercut to the stomach .
> You know the bit in the first part of the SLT form where the hands are crossed down low to define the centerline , its that bit , but in application you do it with one hand whilst the other punches.
> It also appears in the last bit of the form sometimes known as the washing hands sequence .


 

That's the one!  Like a little "chop" to the arm, applying forward pressure to a uppercut or stomach punch.
Fancy that one more than gan sau which sweeps away more.  (And that's just what Hubbie taught me first.  Don't think I've ever used the other low deflection)


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## mook jong man (Dec 16, 2008)

Si-Je said:


> That's the one! Like a little "chop" to the arm, applying forward pressure to a uppercut or stomach punch.
> Fancy that one more than gan sau which sweeps away more. (And that's just what Hubbie taught me first. Don't think I've ever used the other low deflection)


 
You can also just cut straight down on their  inner forearm which means they won't be using that arm again in a hurry.


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## Si-Je (Dec 16, 2008)

mook jong man said:


> You can also just cut straight down on their inner forearm which means they won't be using that arm again in a hurry.


 
True that!  Even I've hurt hubbies big forearms with chit sau.  Stops that uppercut with a quick, ouch!  Makes the had go numb (or a little tingly) if you do it just right too.


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## mook jong man (Dec 16, 2008)

Make sure you wear arm pads on the inside of your arms when you are playing the role of attacker .

 I almost got nerve damage by trying to be a macho man and not wearing the pads , the damage accumulates over a period of time until you feel that tingleing sensation all the time and your fingers will have a tremor like you've been on the Jack Daniels all night .

You will find a lot of the deflections will attack the sensitive inner forearm , it has annoyed me for years that the only arm pads you can get are ones designed for Karate or Tae Kwon Do and they don't fit properly and you have to try and turn them around to cover your inner arm when attacking the Wing Chun guy .

 I think the first company that designs pads specifically for Wing Chun will make a fortune .


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## Yoshiyahu (Dec 17, 2008)

Lets see that must be Jum Sau. I love that one...



Si-Je said:


> That's the one! Like a little "chop" to the arm, applying forward pressure to a uppercut or stomach punch.
> Fancy that one more than gan sau which sweeps away more. (And that's just what Hubbie taught me first. Don't think I've ever used the other low deflection)


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## Si-Je (Dec 17, 2008)

Yoshiyahu said:


> Lets see that must be Jum Sau. I love that one...


 
Sorta.  Same energy and motion, I guess, but different hand position.  Your hands palm down, like putting your hand flat on a table.

I didn't know you could get nerve damage with that!  We don't often work chit sau with that much forward force on eachother, but that may be teaching me to ease up when I need it to hurt.  
We don't wear the armpads because their so gawky.  But, seems like we better figure something else out.  
"cause really, I get that feeling if I punch at someone using chit sau hard.  Almost like you hurt yourself, going full force.  so, I don't attack the tummy that "hard" in practice.  This could be another bad habit.


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## Yoshiyahu (Dec 17, 2008)

No Jum sau is kinda like a knife hand going straigh down with pinky side of hand making contact with enemies guards or strike. As for nerve damage. Train Chi Kung, Use Dit Da Jow, An practice making contact with something harder like a wooden man or tree. Conditioning is the key.


Good technique against a strong man. Wear his arms down!


Picture of Jum Sau.

*Black kid is doing Jum Sau*







*Below shows a punch and Jum Sau*










Si-Je said:


> Sorta. Same energy and motion, I guess, but different hand position. Your hands palm down, like putting your hand flat on a table.
> 
> I didn't know you could get nerve damage with that! We don't often work chit sau with that much forward force on eachother, but that may be teaching me to ease up when I need it to hurt.
> We don't wear the armpads because their so gawky. But, seems like we better figure something else out.
> "cause really, I get that feeling if I punch at someone using chit sau hard. Almost like you hurt yourself, going full force. so, I don't attack the tummy that "hard" in practice. This could be another bad habit.


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## mook jong man (Dec 17, 2008)

Si-Je said:


> Sorta. Same energy and motion, I guess, but different hand position. Your hands palm down, like putting your hand flat on a table.
> 
> I didn't know you could get nerve damage with that! We don't often work chit sau with that much forward force on eachother, but that may be teaching me to ease up when I need it to hurt.
> We don't wear the armpads because their so gawky. But, seems like we better figure something else out.
> "cause really, I get that feeling if I punch at someone using chit sau hard. Almost like you hurt yourself, going full force. so, I don't attack the tummy that "hard" in practice. This could be another bad habit.


 
You will notice that your inner forearm will hurt as well if you attack somebody hard and they have a good dai sau . Every now and again it is good to test the structure of your deflection by just doing the deflection with out the counter punch and have the attacker wear two pads on one arm so he can punch as hard as he can. 

This gives the Wing Chun person confidence that he can deflect heavy punches and not have a false sense of confidence in his deflections because he has never experienced somebody punching with a lot of power and body weight .

 What normally tends to happen is that the person playing the role of the attacker tends to only do half-arsed -punches if they have no pads on because they know from experience that the harder they punch the more their arms will get hurt . 

This results in a vicious circle where because the attacker doesn't punch hard the Wing Chun person tends to get a bit lazy with their deflections . So every now and again its a good idea for the attacker to put two pads on one arm and test out the other persons deflections to see if their keeping it real as you Americans like to say.


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## mook jong man (Dec 17, 2008)

Yoshiyahu said:


> No Jum sau is kinda like a knife hand going straigh down with pinky side of hand making contact with enemies guards or strike. As for nerve damage. Train Chi Kung, Use Dit Da Jow, An practice making contact with something harder like a wooden man or tree. Conditioning is the key.
> 
> 
> Good technique against a strong man. Wear his arms down!
> ...


 
We call that one Tor Sau , its typically used against a palm or punch in chi sau or a karate punch to the stomach .


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## Si-Je (Dec 17, 2008)

Yes, Mook, the dai sau can really hurt too.  Good about wearing two pads.  We haven't done the arm guards in a long time because, well, their a pain in the ****! lol!
But, hubbie makes me hurt his arm.  likes it or something. lol!

Yosh, chit sau is along similar arm movement, only your palm is pointing to the floor.  Pushed forward in front of your belly button, where you hit the arm or forearm/wrist of the the punch with the knife edge of your hand.  (kung fu chop!


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## Yoshiyahu (Dec 18, 2008)

So many different terms. Well yip man terminology I know is way different. I believe it is refered to as Gan sau. Barring arm.


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## mook jong man (Dec 18, 2008)

Yoshiyahu said:


> So many different terms. Well yip man terminology I know is way different. I believe it is refered to as Gan sau. Barring arm.


 
Thats why its great your putting the pictures up there mate , I can look at them and tell you exactly what we used to call them with out any confusion , its so hard to descibe Wing Chun moves in just text and what makes it even harder is we all have different names for the damn things .


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## Yoshiyahu (Dec 18, 2008)

Yea, me I try to use the names that appear mostly on google.


Jum Sau is actually called Sinking hand.....what do you call it?





mook jong man said:


> Thats why its great your putting the pictures up there mate , I can look at them and tell you exactly what we used to call them with out any confusion , its so hard to descibe Wing Chun moves in just text and what makes it even harder is we all have different names for the damn things .


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## Si-Je (Dec 18, 2008)

Yoshiyahu said:


> Yea, me I try to use the names that appear mostly on google.
> 
> 
> Jum Sau is actually called Sinking hand.....what do you call it?


 
Jum sau is Jum sau, chit sau is a different movement.
We do it instead of gaun sau.  But, it flows nicely from chit sau to gar sau gives you good forward pressure on a uppercut punch to stomach.


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## mook jong man (Dec 18, 2008)

Yoshiyahu said:


> Yea, me I try to use the names that appear mostly on google.
> 
> 
> Jum Sau is actually called Sinking hand.....what do you call it?


 
What you call Jum Sau we call Tor Sau which means ( to drag ) because you are dragging the incoming force down .


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## Yoshiyahu (Dec 18, 2008)

I practice my Jum sau to punish my foes upper cut. I want my hand to cut into their nerves on soft side of their arm.




Si-Je said:


> Jum sau is Jum sau, chit sau is a different movement.
> We do it instead of gaun sau. But, it flows nicely from chit sau to gar sau gives you good forward pressure on a uppercut punch to stomach.


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## Si-Je (Dec 18, 2008)

Yoshiyahu said:


> I practice my Jum sau to punish my foes upper cut. I want my hand to cut into their nerves on soft side of their arm.


 
But of course.  Jum sau's good for that.  Chit sau hurts soft side of forearm too.  That's why Mook reminded me to wear the forearm pads.  Totally forgot about wearing those things.  But, I'm not usually the "attacker" in class like that.  Hubbie usually plays that role.


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## Yoshiyahu (Dec 18, 2008)

Too bad for hubby. Do you guys use tiger balm. Its good for those strikes against your arms. Relieves the pain...



Si-Je said:


> But of course. Jum sau's good for that. Chit sau hurts soft side of forearm too. That's why Mook reminded me to wear the forearm pads. Totally forgot about wearing those things. But, I'm not usually the "attacker" in class like that. Hubbie usually plays that role.


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## Si-Je (Dec 19, 2008)

Yoshiyahu said:


> Too bad for hubby. Do you guys use tiger balm. Its good for those strikes against your arms. Relieves the pain...


 
Usually, white flower is good too.  But, we broke now, use vicks.  Works really good! lol! 
and windex for all other ailments! haha!


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## Yoshiyahu (Dec 19, 2008)

I heard bengay works well too...No really seriouslly I am not joking. But Dit Da Jow and Tiger Balm are pretty cheap.


I understand the broke part. I sometimes save up a little from three pay checks to buy a measly eight dollar bottle.


lol




Si-Je said:


> Usually, white flower is good too. But, we broke now, use vicks. Works really good! lol!
> and windex for all other ailments! haha!


----------

